The Sun.
London, England, 1847-01-26 00:00:00

and September last there was an universal cry and pres-
sure upon the Govertin-ent to commence works. In a
particular case from %Vest Corinne, there came a deputa-
tion to the Government, who declared that the necessity for
undertaking work in that county was urgent and could
not possibly be postponed, and yet, by the following post,
there came accounts from that district saying that they
were growing in that neighbourhood an unusually fine
crop of corn, which was suffering from the want of
hands to cut it.—(Hear, hear.) He admitted the diffi-
culties the Irigh gentry had had to contend with. They
had not the advantage of the middle class of this country
to tell who were the really destitute, but still, if the
measure failed through deficient machinery for carrying
it out, it was not fair to lay all the blame at the door
of the Government.—(Hear, bear, and cbeers.) It was
his firm conviction that had the Government received the
proper co-operation of those whose duty it was to give it,
the measure would have succeeded, more especially if
works had not been unnecessarily presented, and none
but really destitute had been employed.—(Hear, hear.)
ft had succeeded in Scotland, where the proprietors of
land had borrowed large sums of money under similar
power-, which they had applied to the improvement of their
estates, and the result was, the population of the distressed
districts had been well supplied with food and employment.
'e thought that when the House was in possession of
the papers intended to be laid upon the table of their
Lordship? llouse, they would be of cpinion that the
Government had done all that could possibly be ex-
pected of them to do under the circumstances in which
they were placed. It was the duty of the Government
not to have opened the depots until the latest possible
period—a considerable time was to elapse before the
next harvest could be got in. The amount of grain, of
all kinds, entered for home consumption in the year
1846, exceeded 4,800,000 quarters. There were agents
for the British merchants in every market, buying every
quarter of wheat they could lay their hands upon. If
the Government, then, had entered into the market,
the most disastrous results would have followed a poliqw
so perfectly suicidal, and therefore the Government
could only obtain a limited supply, which was, of course,
obliged to be most parsimoniously preserved. If there
was one thing more essential to the benefit of Ireland, it
was the establishment of a class of retail traders, and if,
when that class was just springing up, the Government
had entered into the market and cut up the bud of that
opening, it would have been a most injurious and fatal
line of policy. With reference to emigration. he be-
lieved the Government would only have done mischief
had they attempted to provide the means of emigration
upon an extensive scale and failed in the attempt. The
number of emigrants during the last ten years was
687,000, and during the last year the number amounted
to 110,000; the greater majority of these were Irish.
and had the Government sent out a still larger number, it
might be doubtful whether, upon their landing, the proper
means of' subsistence could have been obtained for them.
Those who went to Canada in this way, after a while
remitted money home in order to bring out their fami-
lies ; 37,0001. had within a short period been remitted
in this way to Liverpool. But if the plan of the Noble
Lord opposite was adopted, parties would not endeavour
to find their way out at their own expense, no remit-
tances would take 'place, and the whole cost would de-
volve upon the Government. Without any aid from
their Lordships, the tide of emigration would
continue to increase. He might say. that
next year the number of emigrants would be doubled.
He agreed with the Noble Lord (Lord Stanley) who
spoke early in the evening, that the Government could
render essential service to emigrants by pointing out to
them how to proceed, what districts to select, and to
afford them other important information. They should
not forsake the system of caution adopted by the Noble
Lord whilst in office. He should shortly, however, lay
papers before their Lordships which would afford the
fullest information on the subject. Such were the views
which her Majesty's Government entertained on the
subject.

After a few words from Lord FERRARA'
.Lord MONTEAGLE said that he poirltl
the debate tncloee without 'adverting' to'.tOme expres-,'
sions which had been-used by the Secretary-6f State:
There had been a remarkable abstinenCe from vitupera-'
tion during the whole course of the deb2te; lie Con-
fessed that the Noble Lord did no more than
,his duty by'
repelling imputation's if any had been ettst,
reeollect-Altatt;4 it illaut!gning the LabOitrlistefeitte
'WitVeist' upon her Majesty Government.
—(Hear, bear.) The Labour-rate Act was one
- the .worst which had ever been put upon
the statute-book. All the abuses which the Noble Lord
had pointed out in the Act might exist, but it said so
much the less for the enactment, for he could not point
out any good which had arisen from it—it had- been
wholly inoperative for any good purpose. If the Labour-
rate Ace, which his Noble Friend so strongly recom-
mended, was so good, why propose now to set it aside?
He had, however, not denied the failure of the mea-
sure, but the came of it was alleged to have arisen
not from the conduct of the people, but be
cause of the want of co-operation on the part
of the Irish landlords. To that he would answer, that
there was no place in the British Empire, far less Ire-
land, where such a measure would be allowed to" con-
tinue. The Labour-rate Act had been a most unfortunate
measure, and had failed from its imperfect machinery—
not from the want of the co-operation of the Irish land-
owners. The operation of the Act had been a most
compared with
what they a
arily were in the districts whepre the law
was brought into operation. The presentment sessions
were a most imperfect and injurious mode of securing
improvements. Thotie cessions were generally called
together without any notice, and the business
was transacted in the presence of excited
multitudes, who were eager to get the votes of money
without relation to the possibility of raising the money,
or the mode of its application. Presentments were, in
consequence, made faster than the clerks could write
them down. At these sessions they had the engineer
and the officer of the bourd of works, who in some mea-
sure would be a protection against the indiscriminate
adoption of the hundreds of presentments that are now
cast before the magistrates. Much misrepresentation
had been put before the public with respect to the pro-
ceedings at presentment sessions, but they who did so had
not considered the many difficulties besetting them. At one
sessions, of which he was chairman, the presentments were
so numerous that on asking the advice of the officer
of the Board of Works, he suggested that they should
all be sent up to the Board, when a selection would be
made, and thus the hands of the magistrates would be
strengthened ; and yet, notwithstanding this, he (Lord
Monteagle) and other Irish proprietors had been re-
proached for sending up a mass of presentments to the
Board of Works without attempting anything like a
selection, when, in this case, the course wa- adopted at
the instigation of their own officer. He would just ad-
vert to one other topic in connexion with the distress
in Ireland, and that was the remedy of emigration.
In some parts of Ireland society was, in what he might
call, a congested state, and the only remedy, therefore,
was doe topical one of emigration. He did-not speak so
much of national as local emigration. The Noble Lord
said that he did not so much intend to aid the emigrant
in this country as on the other side. But great care
was necessary in :he distribution of this aid for the pur-
poses of Government would be lost if, instead of aiding
the more destitute, they granted assistance where such
aas not so much required. He would not have risen
that evening had it not been for the laboured defence of
the Act passed last session by his Noble Friend, and he
would not have even risen in consequsnc of that defeece
had it not been for the assertion of his Noble Friend
that the failure of that Bill was solely owing
to the want of co-operation on the part of Irish
landlords. He (Lord Monteagle) would be prepared to
lo rove, in the coarse of these discussions, that there were
tlements in the constitution of that Bill which must have
Necessarily made it a failure.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said he must be
termitted to make one or two observations on this sub
lect. He thought that the Noble Lord who had spoken
ast had altogether misapprehended the remarks made
by his Noble Friend the Secretdry for the Colonies who did
4,,t pretend to say that.this Act was to be a permanent
Act for the good of heisted. He only stated that it
was the best scheme that could be devised at the time,
and it was only found inefficient because it had not been
upported in that country. They then left those parts
which .they thought were not faulty; and, indeed, left the
Bill pretty nearly as they found it. Now, he must refer
63 the assertion that these presentments were all sent
tip together. Was that the way in which local business
was transacted in England? Did they not privately discuss
the measures of local importance a little in private, and
then, mhking a selection, prefer those which they thought
to be the best? Then, with regard to the Building Act.
It had totally failed them—at least to the extent of
100,0001.—but it had failed entirely through the act of
the lawyers; and it was inconsequence of the communi-
cation on this point that the contents of the letter
was addressed to Mr. Labouchere. That Act had been
introduced by the Noble Lord himself. But there was
one thing which he could not help feeling a little hard,
and that was, that while under the difficult circumstances
in which they had been placed, all their measures had
been condemned,• but no one had attempted to point out
what measures they ought to have adopted. He did
hope for great benefit from the measures which the Go-
vernment were about to adopt, especially from that prin.
ciple of emigration to which so much allusion had been
Made, but he would not, at that late hour of the night,
enter upon any further consideration of the subject.
WORKHOUSES IN IRELAND.
The Marquis or LANSDOWNE laid on the table
copies of the correspondence on the state of workhouses
in Ireland, together with several returns of the state of
the poor in Ireland and Scotland.
The House then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Jan. 25.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock.
LAW OF SETTLEMENT.
Mr. WADDINGTON presented a petition from the
board of guardians of the Petworth Union, praying for
the abolition of the law of settlement.

SUGAR IN BREWERIES.
The HON. MEMBER also presented a petition from the
licensed victuallers and brewers at Bury, praying that
the penalties on the use of molasses and sugars in
breweries and distilleries should not be exacted.
TEN HOURS' BILL.
Sir G. STRICKLAND presented a petition from
cotton spinu-,rs and others in Lancashire in favour of a
Ten Hours' Bill for young persons and children.
SUNDAY TRADING.
Mr. TUFNELL presented petitions fro,n various
ul,t(Ts ncriin,t Sunday trading.
THE BRITISH ARMY IN INDIA.—ADVANCE-
MENT OF MONEYS.
Mr. WATSON presented a petition from an officer
(whose name we could not hear) in the Bengal army,
praying that certain moneys, which had been advanced
to the thou Raja, and which sums were charged against
the principality of Oude, should be restored. the
petitioner had memoralized the members of the East
India House since the year 1817, but he was aware that
he had no legal claim against that company, and he