The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-08 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, MONDAY EVENING,
_FEBRUARY 8, 1847.

strict law, and the House must generously confide in the
Government. He would also suggest the propriety of
appointing domestic commissioners by a special Act for
that purpose, whose duty would be to make out returns
specifying the name, income, &c., of every landlord,
with a fair and equitable system of taxation on th.
property of the country. It was not an unusual thing
to have taxation in Ireland without representation, for
the grand jury cess was an instance to the contrary. He
had to bear hie testimony to the extraordinary patience
and unexampled resignation with which the Irish people
were bearing their afflictions, but there must
be an end to that ; and if measures be not
taken soon to give them adequate relief, they would
break out into madness and despair. It was not possi-
ble to levy rates at the present time. Much had been
said about loans to Ireland, and he begged to
observe that after what had transpired, he thought
there would be no more reference to that subject.
They ought to use their powers now graciously rine
magnificently- to rescue the country. It might be asked,
could the Irish do nothing for themselves ? They could
do nothing—little at least—and that only could be done
by the landlords of particular districts. Let the House
remember the number of estates that were in chancery,
and the number of estates that belonged to persons in
that country. He solemnly protested his serious con-
viction, that one-fourth of the people of Ireland would
perish unless they received them.
Sir B. HALL said that he was glad to hear that the
Hon. Member who had last spoken concurred in the
measures to be adopted by the House, but he thought
that before ho asked for large grants for Ireland, he ought
to consider the existence of distress in this country.
In St. Pancras alone, on last Tuesday, out of a popula-
tion of 130,000, 8,000 received out-door relief, and
2,000 in-door relief. The deaths also in the
bills of mortality had very much increased.
Sir B. HALL could not refrain from saying a few
words, but he did not wish to say anything that would
be offensive to the Irish landlords ; but when
they came down to that House and said that the country
was in a state or misery and destitution, and that death
and starvation were stalking through the land, and that
moreover the whole of the responsibility for this state of
things was laid on this country, he could not forbear to
inquire how the landlords of Ireland had discharged their
own responsibility? He believed that Ireland was not with-
out its resources. When he looked at the reports of Mr.
Otway, the Poor-law Commissioner, and he believed
that the reperts of that gentleman were universally
accredited, as of authority he found that the main course
of the present distress in Ireland was owing to the non-
collection of the poor rates, and if the Irish landlords
had seen this calamity approaching, and had taken no
measures to prevent it, on them lay the responsibility of
the present crisis. In the union of Ballena a rate for
12,0001. had been levied, and on the 4th January there
were only 304 inmates in the workhouse, and yet so little
of the poor-rate had been collected that the guardians
had come to a resolution that unless money were sup-
plied, or else borrowed on the security of the rate, they
would be under the necessity of shutting up the house.
The Hon. Gentleman then went on to read several extracts
from Mr. Otway's report; showing the state of the unions
of Ballena, Ballinaroe,:and Castlebar, showing that there
was great destitution, and that the pot::-rates could not
be collected. What would be said if any gentleman in
the principality of Wales were to pass out of his park
walls, and he saw immediately without them his
tenants and cottagers living in hovels, while he
know that he had not paid his poor-rates why
he would be scouted by every one of respectability.
In the case of the Castlebar union, they would find that
persons of large property and great influence were re-
fusing to pay their poor-rates. Well, what he said
was this, that the time had come when those gen-
tlemen ought to be made to contribute their portion
to the relief of the poor.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
He would take the liberty to allude to one other case,—
that of Skibbereen. It any gentleman would read the
larger blue book he would find that the property round
about that poorest and most wretched of the districts of
Ireland—Skibbereen—amounted to no less than 93,0001.
Sir Randolph Routh states that the property in the im-
mediate district of Skibbereen amounted to 50,000/,
and at the conclusion of his report he makes
this singular remark, which he would like to hear
answered by some of the Irish Members—
" With such property as this—with such resources
es these—ought such destitution to exist?" It was no
use, with such facts before their eyes, to come to that
House and tell them that the landlords of Ireland were not
reprehensible. He was pleased to hear what had fallen from
the Hon. and Learned Member, particularly so, as there
was a meeting held of the Irish party, at Old
Palace-yard, where Lord Monteagle presided.
That Noble Lord moved a resolution condemning
the clause in the Irish Destitute Relief Bill which
gave a discretionary power to give temporary
relief at the expense of the union. Now he should like
to know at whose expense relief should be given?
They should pass a law by which they would
compel the Irish landlords to do their duty.
By a resolution which he held in his hand he perceived
that the Irish landlords had no objection to the
distribution of outdoor relief. That plan rather
met the approbation of the Irish. No doubt
it did ; bnt the landlords did not appear in
many respects to approve of a permanent poor
law Bill. That was what the House wished them to ap-
prove of, and what the House must make them approve
of. He thought it was pitiable and bad enough to see
the aged and infirm seeking relief, but how much more
wretched and pitiable was it to see able-bodied persons
coming for relief. One of the greatest benefits of their
legislation that session would be, if they were to pass
some Ftw, compelling the Irish proprietors to provide
for the able-bodied poor, and to give them maintenance ;
for if they found that they were compelled to do so, they
would give the poor work to save themselves. He found
a curious eteteneent made by an Hon. Member for a
Scotch district. That Honourable Member had told
him, that in the part of the district which he re-
presented, there were, two or three weeks ago,
230 persons receiving relief ; and that of that number
there were only six Scotch, all the rest being Irish.
It was very easy for Hon. Members to demand from the
country support and maintenance for the Irish people,
but it was unfair and unjust for the landlords to turn
the people away and not maintain them.—(Hear,
hear.) He should be very sorry, if in the
course of his observations, he had stated any-
anything at all offensive to the Irish Members, but he
felt it'his duty, representing one of the largest conseitu-
encie; in the empire, to state not only his own feelings,
but their opinions also.
MILNES said that if he might credit
any part of the statement of the Honourable
Member for Cork, that the House and the
country did not generally and fully comprehend
speech
been, and true, and over true, as
hhad of the Right Hun. Bart., for valuable as
to take in sight the state of Irish misery, he would find
assertions in regard to the landlords in
someiint many
nn they
remarkso fs Phis
Ireland had been, he could not think that the
f Ireland was ; when he said that after
the remarks he had made he should not
wish to stint the Irish poor. This was no case of
state of
o Hon. Baronet fully comprehended what the
stinting, it was a case of starving. There was no case
whatever to compare chronic English distress with
chronic Irish distress. It was a case in
which the English Parliament and nation
had cause to:intervene in one of the most singular calami-
tiesithat had ever befallen any country during the last three
centuries, and for which it was in vain to draw arguments
and conclusions from the ordinary course of measures.
He might presume to speak of the state of the country
more readily than othere, inasmuchas he had himself, with
parts,
over the whole surface of the
' because it should be borne in mind
his own eyes, witnessed it in certain parts of the country.
He
eat it
aaid
was in
country, but confined to certain districts. The remedy
therefore should not general in be its nature, but partial
in its operation. He should therefore recommend the
most careful consideration with regard to the introduc-
tion of the English poor-law. On the right solution
certain
nota p a
of that question, the future prosperity or adversity of
the Irish people would depend. He prayed them, then,
to consider that the present state of that coun-
try was one of a peculiar and_ pressing nature,
and it was required to be met by general
as well as
G
and Learned local assistance. The Honourable
said that it could not be
doubted but twenty-
vby famine and pestilence. Now he
five per cent. of the population were
that could not be compared, but if
f London, dbeidingnaowtepwt wish to
died of starvation in the streets
make a comparison_ oaf things
would be put
would be written upon it, and the
caseublic sympathy
forth in the strongest manner to excite p
he would ask,
and awaken public horror. Why then,
public press would take the matter up—leadinge articles
Channel. Was it
when they were
dying by thousands across the
was such indifference exhibited,
Such a feeling
would Germany -
or
because Skibbereen was 200 miles to the west of
London ? Why, there should be one sympathy for
Skibbereen and another for London. g
would not be exhibited by the capitals of
, however
France to any part of the
ex-
treme, that might be visited beym a
cases brought
similarpire' calamity.
He objected to having those exceptional
for the support of
which no rates were paid—they were only the excep-
forward upon such occasions as the present. Hon.
Members might speak of workhouses,
groaning beneath
their load of misery and pestilence. (Hear, hear.)
tion. Let the House look to the number of'
workhouses which were literally
It was not decent that those exceptional cases should
be brought forward—great miseries and sufferings were
always sacred in the eyes of Hon. Members.—Hear,
hear.) It was not fair to treat the people of
Ireland in the manner they had been treated
by the Honourable Member for Bath.—Hear, hear.) '
moment of delay
in passing these relief Bills, was
He thought that every
an injury inflicted on
the people of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) He felt assured,
that in expressing his sympathy. with the people of Ire.
land, he was only giving expression to the feelings which
glowed in and warmed the heart of every person in Eng-
land.—(Elear, hear.)
Mr. P. SCROPE perfectly agreed with the opinions
expressed by the Hon. Member for marylebone, and he
thought that the people of England would not be satis-
fied with the measures about to be
proposed for the
relief, unless they had ample security that, for
the future, the property of Ireland should
be made to maintain the poverty of Ireland.
The rental of Ireland, according to Mr. Griffith; was
stated at 15,000,0001., and it was well known that the
assumed turn wits upwards of 30,000,000/ The exports
from Ireland were upwares of 7,000,000/. It
was well known that the resources of Ireland were
enormous, and at a time when Parliament was
making these largesees to the people of that country it
was necessary to devise some means by which the pro-
perty of Ireland should bo made responsible for the
mainteeance of its ewn poor; and he must say that it
the Hon. and Learned Member fur Cork during the last
ten or fifwen years had been endeavouring to render