The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-08 00:00:00

WAYS AND MEANS.

The Order cf the Day on going into Committee on
Ways and Means having been read,
Lord J. RUSSELL rose and said—Sir, in moving that
you do now leave: the Chair, I think it incumbent on me,
owing to the notice given by the Noble Lord—owing to
the discussions that have taken place out of doors—
owing to the attitude that has been assumed by various
parties, both political and commercial, with respect to the
question, to state to the House the general reasons that have
influenced the Government in the adoption of the course
they have recummended--( Hear.) Sir, I agree with the
petition presented a little while ago from cer-
tain inhabitants of Bath, that this is a question not
to be looked at merely in a commercial and
financial view, because if it were of that nature, I should
willingly leave it in the hands of my Right Honourable
Friend near me, by whom it would be treated
with far more knowledge of the subject, and
far more perspicuity in stating the views of the Go-
vernment; but I consider it as a great national question.—
( Hear, and loud cheers.) And there never, perhaps, has
been submitted to Parliament a question which will be
more important, not merely to the finances of the realm,
not merely to the commercial regulations of the present
time, but for the conduct of the finances of this country,
and for the regulation of the comme•cial affairs of this
country for a long time to come, than that which
I am now about to propose. ( Hear, bear,
and cheers.) Sir, I cannot, however, commence
my observations on this subject, without adverting to
that which I know has been said, and which no-
thing but the mast inveterate hostility to the
present Government, and an entire ignorance of
the characters of the members of that Government—
( Cries of " Hear, hear," from the Opposition benches,
followed by loud cheering from the Ministerial side)—l can-
not commence my observations without adverting to the
assertion which has been made that this question was taken
up at the spur of the moment on the day before my Right
Hon. Friend brought forward his proposal.—( Hear, hear.)
Sir, I say that a long habit of hostility to the
Government, and a total ignorance of the character of
my Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer
and the other members of the Government, may form some
palliation of such assertion, but the assertion was one
which should never have been cast upon them.—(Chews.)
The Government knew full well this was a subject of the
deepest interest. They were fully aware from the com-
mencement of the present year, that the irate of
the finances would require some course to he
adopted which in other views would be consistent with the
character of the country, and the future stability of our
trading and commercial interests. Sir, this question
naturally occupied much of our time and long
deliberation—the difficulties, the objections, such as
had been stated te-night in many of the petitions, were
carefully and fully weighed; they made a great impression
on some members of the Government and on myself
but after a certain length of time it was thought
necessary to come to a decision, and the general decision
was taken urn grour.ds, which I shall afterwards state to
the House that these three great questions of corn, sugar,
and timber should be undertaken, for the sake of the revenue,
by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and that I should
give notice to tee House that, as a question af-
fecting the protection to the landed interests—
affecting the general welfare of the country—that I should
bring forward a proposal of the alteration of the Corn-laws.
Sir, that resolution was taken before my Right Hon.
Friend the President of the Board of Trade gave notice
of his resolution with respect to colonial duties—( Loud
cheers)—and that notice, I observe from the Votes, was
given on the 11th of March.—( Cheers.) Sir, I thought
it not right, certainly, that the question should be
brought forward before we knew at the end of the financial
year, the clear return cf revenue as compared to the ex-
penses; but I thought it right to state, when those re-
solutions were under discussion, which I did emphati-
cally—( Loud cheers)—that all these questions relating to
monopoly and restriction bad been under the serious con-
rideration of the Government, and that • the Government
were united on them, and that the measure would be
brought forward when necessary.—(Cheers.) I may state
that on the very day the Budget was brought forward by
my Right Hon. Friend, I received a letter speaking of
the Budget as a matter that was settled by
,the
information I then conveyed, and that not from
a gentleman residing 50 or 60 miles off, but from the
Noble Lord the Governor-General of Canada. —( Cheers.)
hope, Sir, it will no longer be attempted to be palmed
upon the country that this resolution was a sudden one—
one taken up on the spur of the moment, or for party
purposes.—t; Loud cheers.) Let are state further, Sir,
that in making that derision to which the Government
came, we were riot ignorant of the vast interests, aided
by a vast portion of the community, that would be brought
against us—we have to-day seen with how much tender-
ness those who import timber from Canada view the in-
terests of the negro—(Cheers and laughter)—with what
horror the landed gentlemen who oppose the introduc-
e,` foreign corn at a fixed duty, which I do not conceive
any a::•eence of protection—( Cheers)—with what horror
they look ;'Don the sufferings of men forced from their
homes to 'socome slaves in a foreign land. I
know, Sir, v:.ith what disadvantage I stand
here, having to represent no large body of
,non connected with ce''
umercial interests not speak-
ing the sense of any merchants combined and
associated, and having au-Irscriptions, and ad-
vertisements, and meetings, regt:larly partial, when
I am speaking in behalf of no other body, than that
which is often a very helpless body, on this oc-
casion— the great mass of her Majesty's subjects.
—( Loud cheers from the Ministerial benches)—whose
interests, whose well-being, whose fortunes, are
deeply involved in this great question.—(Cries of
Hear, hear.") Sir, in adverting to all these subjects I
must not, I cannot, allow the House to separate from
its consideration the position in which the Government
was placed in regard to its finances. There have been many
questions of great interest relating to foreign affairs, to
our colonial interests, to the state of the cesuntry at home,
which called for and required an increase of expenditure. It
had become necessary in the opinion of the Gonrnment to
arrive at some safe settlement of a question which had long
menaced the independence of the Ottoman ?one. It had
become essential to the honour of the British names to ask
for the redress of injuries inflicted upon British subje,ets in
the dominions of the Emperor of China. It was nec,n-
sary to suppress an insurrection which had broken out in
Canada, the result of legislative arrangements hallo century
ago. At one time our domestic tranquillitywas threatened, and
when we resolved to meet such dangers without recur-
rence to laws of extraordinary coercion, it was necessary to
have a sufficient force in her Majesty's army to
preserve the tranquillity of the country. With respect to
all these measures I know not that this House has differed
in opinion from the Government. With respect to each
it may be that some Members of the House disapproved
of the course pursued, but with respect to all of them they
were supported by a great majority of the House of Com-
mons. Of course if these efforts were to bo made you
are to consider the success which has attended them,
and the meens of providing fur the incurred cost. With
respect to the success of the measure adopted with regard
to Eastern affairs, I think that the means employed have
been attended with most speedy and satisfactory results.—
( Hear, hear.) With respect to Canada, the insurrectioa
which had raised its head was promptly put down, and we
have every reason to hope that the inhabitants of the co-
lony will continue firmly loyal to the British Crown.—
( Hear.) With respect to our domestic affairs, tranquillity
was established without going beyond the ordi-
nary laws of the country.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.)
With respect to Chins, I must admit, that our roes
Wong are still in an unsettled state. But so far
the exhibition of our naval end military force was
concerned, it has been attended with the usualti success
and triumph of the British arms.—( Loud cheerar.c)tSoir,we
now come necessarily to consider, how
andActo.
pro-
vide for the cost of these efforts—(Hear,.vilide_ar_).—.
provide the means by which that cost ist.t
ion:. Ines
cording to the statement of my Regh
.1 Het. Attie
essier: eI s ccoa n pvmareerdy
Chancellor of the Exchequer, there is a deficiency of
2,400,0001. in the revenue of the last year,
h.)
with the expenditure.—( Hear, ear.
well understand that the opposition, of whatever ;Members.e
it might be composed, whether of gent; men now sitting
on this side, or upon the other—(Cheers)—might say that
the plan of the Chancellor of the Exchequer was mis-
taken—(Hear)—and that the scheme was wrong iii pn-
•
civie l —( Hear, hear.) But that they should refuse to give
any opinion, when the e Budget was brought forward, and
should now, when it is proposed to go into a Committee of
the whole House, merely attempt to give a negative to the
proposition of the Government, without intimating what

they would themselves adopt—( Ironical cheers.-from the
Tories)—that course, much as the Right Hon, Gentle-
man (Sir R. Peel, we believe,) may deride, is net whit
becomes any great party—( Loud cheers)-kqeset
certainly more factious than anything I ever hcaill
Sir, I am not saying that the Opposition ought to state
the measures which, in their opinion, would be the test to
be adopted, to restore the finances—( Cheers)—and that
they should indicate the taxes to be put on, or the sources
from which the revenue was to be derived.--(Cheers.)
But, Sir, this is a question of opposite principtes.—( Hear,
hear.) his a question whether we cannot raise the funds
required by some small and petty mode of taxation, or by
a general improvement of the trade of the country.—
(Cheers.) It is true, Sir, that there is another mode of
maintaining the finances—by raising a loan for the present
year; but, Sir, considering that it might be expedient to
continue the army and navy on their present footing, we
did not think it becoming to have recourse to a loan.—
(Cheers.) But if Hon. Gentlemen opposite think that
the raising of a loan was the course which ought in be
taecn, I hope they will not hesitate to dee' ire thew opinion.
Now that was a course which would not have been cre-
ditable to any Government, But when we came to con-
sider that question we had to oppose to it a further alter-
native, namely, whether it was not possible by diminishing
excessive protection—( Hear, hear)—by giving to the
people of this country additional means of purchasing, not
the luxuries, but the comforts and the necessaries of life—
( Hear, bear)—to obtain a revenue which would meet the
deficiency which bad takeu place. We came to the (pi-
nion that that might lee done. For the moment that we
had deliberately formed this opinion it would have been
wrong for us to have proposed to the House a direct tat,
either on the property or assessed taxes hying upon the
people of this country large additional hurthens when
there were means obvious to our eyes by which those ad-
ditional burthens might be spared, and the people at la. oe
be not oppressed but relieved. This, therefore, was the;
opinion to which we came, ;a course which was more
likely to lead the Government into difficulties than perhaps
either of the three courses which I have named, having
to meet such vast interests—having to meet the additional
feeling which the Noble Lord has embodied in the re-
solution which he means to propose. But we could
shrink from three difficulties—( Hear, hear)—we could
not, when my Right Hon. Friend had shown by his calcu-
lations that from sugar and from timber, by means per-
fectly just and legitimate in themselves, which had been
often acknowledged and asserted to be so—a large revenue
might be obtained—we could not refuse to propose such a
measure to the House. I now put this question to the
Heuseewhether, beinp prepared to consider sugar and tim-
ber with a view to revenue, we should have been justified
in saying "yes, we propose these questions as quce-
tions of revenue, but there is another great in-
terest where we think the protection given
is a serious grievance to the people of this countrye--a
protection which is net for the advantage of the great
landed interest itself, who appear to base so thought—
a protection which might be changed arid modified for
the benefit of the country, not only as a gre.,t manufac-
turing and commercial country in its rivalry with other
nations, but also ultimately for the benefit of the land-
owners and the growers of corn in this country"—l say, if
having this opinion we had stated, that we were prepared
to touch two of these great interests, but that we shrunk
from touching the third—( Hear, hear)—l say, could we
have met the House of Commons, I will not say with the
same chance of support, but could we have met it with the
same confidence that we are proposing good and right
measures, and measures which, one day or other—( Loud
cheers from the Ministerial benches)—will be a new
foundation for the continued prosperity of this country ?
Sir, we could not have met this House with the same con-
fidence, if while we had proposed two of these changes we
had become alarmed, and in consequence been deterred
from bringing forward the third.—( Cheers.) Sir, I will
say but a very few words respecting those mher two mea-
sures, which are not at present so immediately before the
House. With respect to the timber duties, I may state
that in a correspondence with my Noble Friend the pre-
sent Governor-General of Canada, I
had stated to him
what were the views and intentions of the Government on
this subject. He, as was very naturally to have been ex-
pected, replied that the adoption of such a course would
place him under increased ditliculties—( Loud cries of
Hear, hear" from the Opposition)—but that there was
a measure which had been frequently in discussion between
us before the departure of my Noble Friend fur Canada,
and to which I will not now further allude, by which,
without burdening the country, great relief might be given
and great improvements made to property in Canada ; and
if he were able to hold out the hope that such a measure
would take place, he thought that, on the whole, Canada
would be a gainer.—( Hear, hear.) Sir, with regard to
the other question—the question of corn—[ have stated
the duty I mean to propose, which is not, as the Noble
Lord proposes, an entire absence of all protection to The
landed interest. It is, on the contrary, such a protection
as with the prices of corn in foreign countri..is, the ex-
pense of bringing corn to this country, and preparing it
for the market, would, I think, keep up a steady price of
50i. or a quarter; and, at the same time not ex-
pose the country to those ruinous fluctuations—( Cheers)—
by which at one time corn is subject to a prohibitory duty,
and at anetber, by a skilful and artificial arrangement of
of the averages an importation of foreign corn takes place
at a tiomitial duty only.—( Cheers.) I now come, Sir, to the
consideration of the question on which my light Hon.
Friend intends to bring forward his motion in the Committee
of Ways and Means, and the first thing I think it necessary
to state wtth regard to the present duty on foreign sugar
is the principle which we wish to see adopted. The
principle, Sir, we wish to see adopted is the removal of
prohibition (Cheers)-- and the imposition of fair
and honest dut es.—( Loud and continued cheering.)
The prohibition is injurious to the people of this country,
and the production of the article itself is nev.r so good as
in a state of competition. Nuw, what is the duty on
foreign sugar at present? It is 63,. per cwt. which, ex-
cept in some very rare instances during a short time in
the course of last year, completely excludes foreign sugar
from this market; so much was this the case, that whet at
certain periods, as is the year 1815, it was thought proper
to admit foreign sugar into the market, a special Act of
Parliament wa-s passed for this purpose. I am not now
inquiring whether there onght or ought not to be a pro-
hibition of all foreign sugars. lam not now saying that;
but the proposition which I make, and to which this prin-
ciple applies, is one which is supported by what was stated
this evening in the various petitions which were presented
to the House. It is that proposal which was made by my
Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer that
there should be such a protection as would enable growers
of colonial sugar to sell their sugar in a fair competition.
If you add to the 22e. which you may take as the price of
the foreign sugar in bond, the duty of 37s , it will raise
the price to 595.-51 s. is the fair price at which the peti-
tioners to this House state that they aie able to sell West
India sugar. Now if they are able to introduce sugar at
515., what necessity is there to introduce foreign sugar,
which will be only sold at the same price, or at a higher
price? It may be asked, might we not as well avoid so
doing ? The answer to the question is, if sugar should
rise, as it has hitherto done, to 68s. per cwt. the public
would have no remedy against the high price; they would
not be able to counteract the high price by any competition,
and thus a great grievance would be inflicted on the people.
Now, Sir, with regard to the general principle of com-
petition. I think if I were to point to instances, there are
so many with regard to the benefits accruing therefrom
that I should weary the House by stating them.—(Hear,
hear.) But I know no reasons why these instances should
not apply, and I will mention two. Its the commercial
treaty of 1786 the earthenware of England was admitted
into France, and a gentleman who travelled there shortly
afterwards stated that since the introduction of that
earthenware the French manufacture had been greatly
improved, and they were able to produce something like
the English ware.—( Hear, hear.) Another instance was
given by Mr. Hume in his evidence before the Committee
or, Import Duties. For some years after French cloth
was admitted into this country the English manufacturers
imitated it, and sold it as French cloth, and it succeeded
very well, being a better and cheaper cloth than they had
ever sold before ; and such was the consequence of corn-
petition.—(Hear, hear.) The same thing happened with
regard to a measure proposed by Mr. Huskisson, who ad-
mitted silks and gloves into this country at a reduced duty.
On that occasion it was stated that the manufacturers
would be ruined, our English silks and gloves bring so
much inferior, whereas On consequence was an improve-
ment of these manufactures, and an extension of them,
although it was said that they would be ruined. And
what was the case with regard to sugar? We have it
in statements which have been made to 1110 repeatedly
—esed some of which I shall read to the House. They
were furnished in proof of the effect of the abolition of
slaver), in the improved methods of cultivation tbat were
employed. So long as slavery existed,
nothing could be
worse or more careless, or more barbarous, than, than I,ll°
mode of cultivation ; in fact it was a complete monopoly ;
but since the abolition of slavery we kave. the produc-
tion. of various methods of improved have
time ago,
somde
here a memorandum which was drawn UP
with regard to the effects of emancipation! and ono point
a stipendiary Magistrate
refl. 3
to coffee. Mr. Grant, cultivatum.
'machine, for clearing
of ts:anchester, refers to a
great saving of -
coffee, which would effect
contend with
much better. 1114-
a and
d with strong I Ile
utroducing the in- acllhe'eu;
had to cosi
statesnuel
thataen d perform the
er .
yhYt haNtVacisa tg
dice, ridicule, a; id spathe's
that e other points, and I Conte
efforts are
plea
bi t
India
and it is clear
contend that
planters upon tbie .o:_eliee. the
competition—that ad"' 5 !
countries may b •
c Introduced into
coffee grown in other
eo them to exe •
exercise their and
this country, will main ewa
which
bent in tua. y their
hay
ve
always stimulate the lust Englishmen
themselves ...l's to originate in all mat-
tersalway! shown themselves
nature. Thee nith respect to the pro..
I think we say a in the hest place you have it
prietorie
the House that the price he wishes to o • •
stated tois
about price at which Leo same
n be introduced into En
sugar _ gland ; if that amount of
duel. 11/ not sufficient, that is a question for a Committee
of this House. What I want to see is the principle that.
it shall be possible that the price in the English
market shall not be an excessive price. Such,
then, will be the condition of the West India
planter. He will not have to come into competition such
as his friends dread, but merely into competition such as
they admitted themselves at one time would leave them
still masters of the market. Now, Sir, I come to another
part of the question, one upon which I think the House
ought to lay the greatest stress—to which we must all
attsch the greatest interest, and upon which I wish to
make some statements, I mean with regard to the effects
of emancipation.—( Cheers.) I think, Sir, that having
to discuss a question upon which theme is so much opposi-
tion, the House, with me, will be happy to dwell for a
moment upon some statements which I think must be gra.
tifyiug to all patties, that whatever other effects may ass°
been produced, the great act cf emancipation, which this
country so nobly carried into effect, at the great sacrifice
of twenty.miilions, has been upon the whole the most sue,
cessful experiment that has ever taken place affecting the
interests of 80,000 people. It is impossible to read with.
out the liveliest gratification the state is which the
negro hbo„ers are, the manner in which so many of them
are acquiring all the comforts of live and becoming pro.
prietors* IPM•11 pottions of land,—(Cheers.) Perhaps