The Sun.
London, England, 1841-08-28 00:00:00

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the war 1839 that/
sy amounted only to 430,0 .thatetho'
_nue had increased by nearly one million ; and in
1840, in consequence of the wars in China and in Syria,
the deficiency amounted to 1,450,00 CL In the yeas:. 1840,
in consequence, it had become the necessary duty of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer to take some kneaaures to
revive the finances of the country—and what had the
Chancellor of the Exchequer done ? Why, he .had
adopted a course which, under all the circumstances of
the case perhaps he was justified in adopting, but against
which, nevertheless, some of the Liberal Memberi.of the
House had felt it their duty to protest ; he had added to
the taxes on the necessaries of life by adding five per
cent. to the Customs and Excise duties. In Wet course
he had been suppOrted by the other side of the House
most cheerfully. • The Chancellor of the Exchequer had
been complimented On his wisdom and his prudence in
boldly facing the financial difficulties of the country ;
but when the Chancellor of the Exchequer came
forward, not to add to the burdens of the peo-
ple, but to reduce them—when he proposed
to diminish the duties on timber, sugar, and corn. and
to add to the revenue, by diminishing the pressure on
the people—then he was met by a vote of want of con-
fidence. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite was will-
ing to come forward when any measure was proposed
for taxing the people, but he was just as backward when
any measure was proposed to relieve them from taxation.
—(Loud cheers.) He believed that ere long the peoplu
would re-consider the verdict which they had given in
favour of Hon. Gentlemen opposite, a verdict which they
had been induced to give in consequence of delusion and
intimidation.—(Cheering, and counter-cheering.) He be-
lieved they would re-consider it, when they found they
had changed a Chancellor of Exchequer who would have
given them relief, for one who refuses all relief—(Cheers)
—a Chancellor of the Exchequer who would have re-
duced taxation, for one who will increase it.—(Loud
cheers.) Why, the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite must
impose fresh burdens on the people, and the people would
not be slow in wishing that verdict reversed, whenever
they might find that such was the case:—(Cheers.) The
Right Hon: Gentlemast, it was true, had been returned
by a large majority of the constituency of the county--
(Tory cheers)—but he had always contended that the
constituency did not represent the wishes or interests ot
the country. He had always advocated the interests ot
the unrepresented; and however small might be the mi-
nority in which he might find himself,, or however hostile
the majority by which he might be opposed, he would
always be found the unflinching advocate of the
.princi-
pies of liberty and justice ; and he was satisfied that
those principles must triumph eventually.—(Cheers.)
Now, what was the amendment which the Hon. Gentle-
man had proposed ? It began by asserting that the House
felt deeply sensible of the important considerations to
which her :Majessy had directed its attention, more par 1601-
ticularly with reference to the commerce and revenue of
the countryand the laws regulating the trade in corn. Now,
those were the words of the amendment, and he would ask
were they prepared to act upon that amendment ?
(Cheers)—were they prepared to take into their consi-
deration questions relating to the commerce and revenue
of the country, and the laws regulating the trade in
corn ?—(Loud cheers.) If they were, was it too much
to ask them to give some definite information on the
subject ?—(Loud cheers.) But if they were not so pre-
pared,—if, after having carried their amendment, they
intended to postpone the further consideration of all
these great questions until the spring—then, he would
say, that never had a people been more insulted.—
(Cheers)—never had a Speech from the Throne been
treated with greater contempt.—(Continued cheerhig.)
Now, what would they do ? They would adjourn the
House as soon as they had carried their amendment.
The amendment expressed that they were sensible of
the sufferings of the people, and yet theypostponed the
consideration of all measures for the relief of those
suf-
ferings until next spring.—(Hear, hear.) That was
the answer. The Speech from the Throne expressed
sympathy for the sufferings of the people, and directed
their attention to the consideration of measures for the
relief of that distress ; but the House, pretending .to
represent that people, refused to take the subject of
their distresses into its consideration. The Noble Lord,
who had seconded the amendment, had avowed
himself an advocate for free trade. Hon. Gentlemen op-
posite called themselves the disciples of Mr. Huskisson,
and pretended to hold the memory of that great man in
high veneration, But if they really held the memory of
Mr. Huskisson in respect—if they were really followers
of that great Minister—they ought to be ready to,de-
dare what measures they intended to submit tot the
House. He asked the Right Hon. Baronet what he
meant to do with the corn question, the timber duties,
and the sugar duties ? Did they mean to let the people
go without those measures which they had been led to
expect ? What a contrast did not their conduct present
to that of the Whig party in 1825 and 1826.1 Thay
had no confidence in the Right Hon. Gentleman oppo- •
site or his friends, but the measures they proposed,
being beneficial, and calculated to add to the industry,
the wealth, and the comfort of the country, they threw
their weight into the scale, and at a time when Mr."l-lus-
kisson was taunted with being a cold-hearted metaphy-
sician, then the great Whig party came forward and
gave their aid to a Tory Government.—(Hear, hear.)
Ia 1830 there was a Speech from the Throne which gave
great dissatisfaction to a certain set of agriculturists in
that House. The Right Hon. Baronet said, at that
time, that the course of the Liberal Members of the
House was marked by an honourable forbearance
of party tactics. They rallied round the Govern-
ment, and opposed those manwnvring agricultural gen-
tlemen; and he asked the House if that was not strongly
contrasted with the conduct of the Opp osition in the
present case ?—(Hear.) With the acknowledgment on
their lips that trade languished, and that extended mar-
kets were required for thttr commerce, they postponed
the consideration of thOse questions for twelve months,
in order that in the meantime they might obtain place.
Policy, more mean and sordid, was never exhibited to the
sasstion in the House, or, if it were, history exhibited no
trace of it.—(Cheers.) They acknowledged the prin-
ciples that were put forward, but they delayed the ap-
plication—they admitted the wisdom, but declined to
introduce them. They were told it was a great proof
of statesmanship to be silent on questions of that sort,
but he would tell the House that they were silent be-
, use the hard .necessity was imposed on them. They
were swelling with patriotic fervour to relieve trade, and
to lighten the burden of the country, but they were com-
pelled to be silent because their Government -was one
of coalition and compromise ; and if any man spoke out,
principle would clash against principle, interest against
interest, and individual would struggle against individual.
They were therefore silent upon the most unworthy
policy. He believed no coalition Government could stand
in this country.—(lronical cheers.) And he hoped it
never might. Did Honourable Gentlemen mean to
'tty there was any thing like a similar coalition on
his ..(Mr. Hawes's) side of the House ? It' so, he would
meet them on that point. The Noble Lord the Member
for North Lancashire had stated that he had changed his
"filltee, and not his principles. Who then had changed ?
Vas it the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tam-
worth? He (Mr. Hawes) had seen no change in him,
"rind he declared to God he would rather have him
dictator and sole governor than to see him mixed
up with the men who were to form part of the Go-
vernment.—(Cries
of " Hear.") In former times they
had had a coalition Government, turd he would read them
an extract from a modern writer, in which it was stated
that the cause was the hostility of the King, who, hay-
ing avowedly received them on compulsion, sought the
first opportunity to reject them, which their unpopularity
with the people afforded him. If he sought for tergi-
versation in Hon. Members opposite, he should find it in
the amendment to the address. They had come ir, on
the Corn-law question, and the avowed determination to
maintain the sliding scale, and the very first amendment
destroyed all expectation of an adherence to these laws,
as they had declared that it was their intention to take
them into their serious consideration. The fact was that
in order to afford prosperity to the farmers under the
present system, there must be a scarcity of corn, and
food must be at a famine price.—(Cries of " No, no.") .
Hon. Gentlemen who cried " No" had not looked into
the agricultural' reports. When corn 'was plentiful,
agriculturists were constantly crying out, and now
when they were in the greatest distress, they bad cid*
bited the greatest tenacity for these laws ; and, in point
of fact, in years of abundance the farmers were always
heard to complain: In 1834, when this subject was dis-
cussed in the House, what were the reasons urged for the
maintenance of these laws ? The first Was the indes
pendence of that country from foreign supplies. Had
they been independent since ? Look at the imports, and
•
the quantity theY were likely to import in the next
month, and the rate of duty. They had not secured in-
p ly• Their whole history showed
dependence of
the sexisPlinew laws the were still dependent,
that, under
and they ought to be so.. A greatY commercial country
like theirs involved relations with every country on the
face of the globe. Another reason assigned was that the
manufacturers were protected. Ile (Mr. Hawes) was a
manufacturer, and he required no protection. His Don.
Friend the Member for, Stockport, whom' he was happy
to see there as the representative of a great *rnantifac-
turing district, wanted none.—(Cries of" Hear" from Mr.
Cobden.) Another ground urged was, that the land was
subject to some peculiar burdens, and in consideration of
these burdens they were entitled to protection. Now,
would they give him a Committee (he would move for it)
to inquire into these burdens, and if the result was that
they were actually chargeable with any burden beyond
the rest of the community, he would (venture to say,
for the party he represented, that they would give the
agriculturist protection to that extent, but no more.—
(Hear.) To what a state had these laws reduced them ?
They had rejected an Bs. duty, and they were about to
let in an enormous quantity of foreign corn at one-fourth
of that duty. The corn averages for the week ending
the 16th of July last were 645. Ild. ; for the week
ending the 23d of July 665. 3d. ; the 30h of -July
6Ss. 3d ; the 6th of August 70s. sd. ; the 13th of August
725. sd. ; and the 20th of August 745. 4d. ; and if the
average for the three weeks ending the 9th of September
were not less than 71s. 7d., the whole of the wheat then
in bond would be admitted at a duty of 2s. Bd. And
did Hon. Members know how much there was in bond ?
Taking the foreign and colonial wheat, and wheat flour,
now in the warehouses, the quantity was 813,000 qrs., and in
their great anxiety to protect the farmers the necessary
consequence of these laws was to admit nearly a million of
quarters at probably a nominal duty. The statements
lie had made were from the most careful information
and authority. The Hon. Member for Yorkshire said
that he was the bearer of an answer from his con-
stituents to the appeal that had been made to the coun-
try. He (Mr. Hawes) represented also no inconsider-
able portion of the constituency in one of the largest
districts of the metropolis, and he distinctly and empha-
tically gave a totally opposite answer to that of the
Honourable Member for Yorkshire. They had sent
him to oppose no particular interest—he was not
to attach himself exclusively to any particular party,
unless there wit?: an absolute necessity. And if the
Right Hon. Baronet, who was justly assumed to be about
to come into power, would apply himself to benefit the
great interests of the country, Ize for one would give him

PRICE 5d

the same course, he should feel perfectly indifferent
whether the administration of affairs were entrusted to
the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies, or the
Right Hon.. Baronet the Member for Tamworth. But it
was because lie saw a great principle at issue—it was
because he saw upon the one side a practical, plain, and
intelligible statement of measures to be laid before
Parliament ; and on the other nothing but vagueneSs,
absurdity-, and, mystification—that he preferred the
men who wished to provide for the deficiency in
the revenue and the wants of the people, to those
who were anxious to assume the reins of office, say-
ing nothing, promising nothing, and taking refuge in
a studied obscurity. He could not, allow that opportu-
nity to pass without addressing a few words to the House
relative to the statements made last night by the Right
Hon. Gentleman the Member for the University of Cam-
bridge ; and lie hoped to be able to convince the House
that the Right Hon. Gentleman, who had developed his
own opinions with so much. ability, had taken an unfair
view of the comparative merits of Whig and Tory Ad-
ministrations upon questions of finance. The Right
Hon. Gentleman had sought to assimilate the Right
Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer to Catafalto, or
the Great Wizard of the North, but he trusted he should
be able to show the House that the Right Hon. Gentle-
man himself was a greater conjuror still.—(Hear, hear.)
What had been the course of the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer ? Simply this : he had repelled a charge brought
against him, that for the last ten years one million per
annum had been added to the debt of the country. That
charge the Chancellor of the Exchequer distinctly and
emphatically denied. Now, it appeared to him (Mr.
Hawes) that the Right lion. Member for the University
of Cambridge had not disputed one fact, one single figure,
laid before the House by the Right Hon. the Chancellor
of the Exchequer ; but all that he did was, with great
skill and ability,,to throw a good deal of obscurity and
mystery over the 'statement of the Right Honourable
Gentleman, for the purpoie of leading the House to the
conclusion that in point of fact there had been no reduc-
tion whatever of late years of the debtof the country. '
How stood the fact ? In order to make alair compari-
son Of the debt In the year 1841 and the debt in the
year 1831, the Right Hon. the tixancellor.of the Ex-
eheqiier had refer:rcd In".pape-rs Which had been laid b--
fore the. House, from which it appeared, that in order to
ascertain the debt in 1831, lie had taken the funded debt
from the financial account, and he had added to
that the value of the then annuities converted into stock.
Again, he had taken the debt in 1841 and added the value
of the annuities now payable by Way of funded stock.
How had they arrived at the gross result that the funded
debt in 1831 .amounted to 838,549.0001., while the
funded debt in 1841 amounted to no more than
815,957,000/. ? The sum paid to the West India Colo-
nists had been of course left altogether out of the state-
ment • and he (Mr. Hawes) would observe in passing,
that he had ever opposed the grant of that sum. There
had been, therefore, leaving out the grant in question, a
reduction of the debt of 22,500,0001.'and odd during the
last ten years. And 'he (Mr. Hawes) would defy the
Right Honourable Gentleman the Member for
the. University of Cambridge to shake the conclu-
sions to which the Chancellor of the Exchequer had come.
He would not say it was an unfair statement, but he
would say there was a degree of bol mess in his denial
of the statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
that he had seldom seen equalled in that House.—
(Hear, hear.) And when he compared the Right Hon.
Gentleman to a " Wizard," and equalled him to the glory
of Catafelto, he by implication cast imputation on his
statement of figures.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Hawes)
could not think his allusion to legerdemain was altogether
a happy one; for he thought the statements of the Right
Hon. Gentleman himself were not entirely free from it.
—(Hear, hear.) He would now proceed to another
point of the Right Hon. Gentleman's speech of no less
moment. He 'seemed to take credit to himself for his
views upon the state of the sugar market, and his sound
and accurate perception on that subject. The Right
Hon. Gentleman said, if he took the consumption of
sugar from the sth of May last, he found a very large
consumption, and if he took it to continue at the same
rate—
Mr. GOIJLBURN.—I said, as compared with the
antecedent year. ' _

Mr. 11.A.i'VES—He would come to that directly, but
if it continued at the same rate through the succeeding
period of years, the consumption of 1841 would be equal
to the consumption for some years back. Now he (Mr.
Hawes) would, in the first place, take a retrospect of the
sugar trade itself. Before May, 1825, the Right Hon.
Gentleman knew very well, because the discussion in the
House at that time must have made him aware of the
fact, that the alteration of the duty led-to a stagnation of
the trade, and when a temporary settlemant was come to,
the result was, that a spring was given to the market
and the consumption increased, because the dealers
bought and the consumers could obtain a supply.—
(Hear, hear, hear.). What was taking place in the
passing year would, contrary to all principles and
speculations on consumption, according to the statement
of the Right Hon. Gentleman, make him believe that
the consumption was larger because the labourer was
poorer. Now, it was well known that as the labourer
was obliged to expend more on the real necessaries of
life he would have less to pay for sugar.—(Bear, hear,
hear.) And such was the fact in this case, if they had
recourse to the amount of consumption.
Mr. GOULI3URN—But give the prices.
Mr. HAWES—He would give the prices also, and that
would make no difference. The, price of sugar in 1841,
during six months, as compared with its price during a
corresponding time in 1840, was in the ono case 425. 10d.,
and in the other 445. ; so that there was little or no
difference in the price.—(Hear, hear.) If they took
equal periods of six months there was sufficient difference
to vitiate, the conclusion he had come to.—(Cheers.)
They would find 151 lbs. was the amount per head con-
sumed in 1840, and 13flbs. in 1841 ; and it ought to be
so, because the more substantial necessary of life, bread,
was dearer in the one year than the other, and in ad-
dition sugar was an article which, if there was not a re-
gular demand for it, would go out of consumption. The
argument
.of the Right Hon. Gentleman was reducible
to, if he might say it in Latin, a. reductio ad absurdum ;
it was an utter absurdity, because his argument was
that there was consumption, though trade languished,
commerce declined, and the people were discontented.
That certainly was a good specimen of the political eco-
nomy that usually proceeded from the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman.—(Cheers.) He said the reduction of 13i lbs.
per head in 1841, was.a very unfair test of the reduction
amongst the working classes.—(Hear, hear.) In the
case of the higher classes the consumption was the same,
or nearly so. The Right Hon. Gentleman consumed as
much in 1841 as he did in 1840 or 1838, or any other
year, because no matter how high the price, his means
were adequate to purchase it, but such was not the case
with the poor man.—(llear, hear,) Let sugar, which.
may be regarded as a comparative luxury, rise in price,
and it will, like other luxuries, go entirely out of con-
sumption. There would be no means of purchasing—
there would be a total denial of that article as he would
show, ig he might be permitted to occupy them with a
matter of detail.—(Hear, hear.) The consumption in
1840 amounted to 15flbs. per head ; the consumption of
four persons amounted accordingly to 611b5., but the con-
sumption of a person in the higher classes was 371bs.
per head. Now. if the consumption of the rich
man represented by 371bs. be deducted, there
remains Nibs. only for the other three ; and
then if one poor person's consumption be subtracted it
reduced the consumption of the other three to eight
pounds per head.—(Loud cheers.) He said, therefore,
the statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman on this sub-
ject was no more to be relied on than any other of his
financial lucubrations.—(Cheers.) And from the Right
Hon. Gentleman, who had been so intimately connected
with sugar and other financial arrangements, and who
might be supposed to be a master of such subjects, to
hear such speculations not a little surprised and asto-
nished him.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman
then went into the subject of the timber duties. And
what was the conduct of Hon. Gentlemen opposite on
that matter ? Why they actually refused to go into
Committee on it—they put an estoppel at once upon the
subject.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman said
they would not have got any revenue last year by re-
ducing the duties; neither would they next year, and yet
by common consent it was one of those duties to be
especially dealt with when a Conservative Government
came into power.---(Cheers.) It appeared from the
debate which had taken place elsewhere, for Hon. Gen-
tlemen had been particularly cautious to say as little as
possible on the subject in that House--(Cheers)—that
the great ground for want of confidence in the Ministry
was, that they had neglected the finances of the coun-
try. One great authority in another place had
said that the Ministry had
gone on year after year
with an increasing deficiency •
that year after year
their claim to the confidence of the country had been
lessening, until, at length, it had been determined
to show that neither House of Parliament had any con-
fidence whatever in the Ministry. Now, he should like
to be furnished with some information on this subject
from the Hon. Gentleman opposite. He should like to
know if that was really the ground on which they called
upon:the House to vote that they had no confidence in
her Majesty's Ministers ? Very little could be gathered
I 11
'Cu9l.lFeo upon ee
from the speech of the Hon. Mover of the amendment
as to the grounds upon which he called upon the Huse
for its support. The lion. Member said somethingoilt
war, but appeared not to have made up his mind exactly
whether the war to which he alluded.was right or wrong;
but the result of all his arguments was, that he came to
Yorkshire, therefore he was called
conclusion that, because he had been
drt
oo
igeohuvlesbotoriritafoto
frthe House had no confidence in her
Majesty's Ministers.—(Cheers and laughter.) He would
nowamine the grounds on which this imputation
ox
havinge neglected the finances of the country
rested, and he found from the accounts on the
table of the House that the Whig Government
was not the only Government open to the charge
of having incurred a deficiency, but that deficiency had
also occurred on former occasions. In 1825 and 182 G a
considerable deficiency had been incurred in consequence
of the Portuguese war, and no provision whatever had
been made for it. The then Chancellor of the Exche-
quer had relied upon the buoyancy of the resources of
the country—he had relied upon the resources of free
trade, and he acted wisely in doing so, for the
the revenue of the country was not only sufficiett‘to
make good that deficiency, but there had been actually
such a surplus as to enable the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer to engage in the repeal of taxation.. In 1838 there
had been a deficiency amounting to 1,428,0001., owipg,