The Sun.
London, England, 1847-06-01 00:00:00

EDUCATION.

Sir R. PEEL presented petitions from the Roman
Catholics of Birmingham, praying that they should par-
ticipate in the Government scheme of education.
REGISTRATION AND MARRIAGE ACTS.
Mr. SMOLLETT presented petitions from Dumbar-
tonshire and other places against the Registration and
Marriage Bills.

Mr. FORBES presented similar petitions from Stir.
fingshire.
Mr. D. M‘NEILL presented several petitions against
he Marriages Act.

EDUCATION.
Captain PECHELL presented petitions from the
Roman Catholic clergymen and inhabitants of Brighton,
prayiog to be. admitted participators in the Government
educational scheme.
MEDICAL REGISTRATION BILL.
Mr. HUME presented several petitions in favour of
this Bill.
Sir G. GREY presented a similar petition from
De vonport.

1 - CATHOLIC EDUCATION.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH presented a petition from
the Roman Catholic inhabitants of Malton in favour of
a participation in the grant for educational purposes.
CHURCH AT HONG-KONG.
Dr. BOWRING gave notice that he should inquire
as to whether the grant of 600/. for a church at Horg-
Kong, which appeared among the miscellaneous esti-
mates, had been duly considered by her Majesty's Go-
vernment.

IMPRISONMENT OF A GIRL NAMED DAWSON.
Mr FERRAND gave notice that he should, to- morrow,
move that the petition of John Dawson, complaining of
the illegal imprisonment of his daughter, be printed
with the votes.

EXCISE.
On the motion of Dr. BOWRING the following re-
turns were ordered :—Returns, in columns, of the gross
amount of duty levied by the Excise, year by year, from
the year ending the sth day of January, 1800, to that
ending the sth day of January last, showing the rate of
duty on each article, and the amounts received on each;
of the net amounts paid into the Exchequer, exhibiting
the cost of collection, year by year, as above ; of the
number of Excise seizures in each year. as above, show-
ing the number of condemnations, the number that were
tried, and the number compromised, the value of the
seizures and penalties, the amount paid into the Exche-
quer, and the annual cost of Excise prosecutions.
PENSION WARRANT.
Sir 11. DOUGLAS inquired of the Hon. Gentleman
the Secretary at War if he had any objection to lay on
the table of th House the late Pension Warrant?
Mr. F. MAULE had no objection.
CONVENTION BETWEEN FRANCE, SPAIN,
AND PORTUGAL.

Mr. B. OSB )R/STE wished to know from the Noble
Lord the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs,
whether
the protocol, which appeared in the a
had been
papers
of this
~ mornin, respecting a convention which
entered' into by this country with France, Sepatin and
Portugal for an armed intervention was authnatnd
th
e
House he was prepared to lay it on the table of c
House ?
Lord PALMERSTON replied that the Noble Lord
the Member for Lynn had intimated to him that he in-
tended to ask the same question, and also several others
upon the same subject. As far as the perusal of the docu-
ment enabled him to judge, he was in a position to state
that the protocol which had been published in the papers
was a fair and proper translation of the one agreed to on
Saturday week. He had no objection whatever to lay a
copy of it on the table of the House.
In answer to questions put by Lord G. BENTTNPK,
Lord I'ALMER3TOA replied that all the papers re-
ferring to the proposed intervention would be laid on
the table of the House in a short time, when the
grounds which had led to the intervention would be
set forth. There had been a British naval force
in the Tagus, but no 'collision had yet taken place
between them and the insurgents. As it would
not bo possible to go into Committee of Supply, if
at all, till a late hour to-night, he hoped the Hon. Mem-
ber for Montrose would pospone his motion.
Mr. lIUME said that he was unwilling to postpone
his motion beyond Friday, when he expected the papers
would be laid on the table of the House. He would,
therefore, postpone his motion till that day, if he ob-
tained an assurance from the Government that this
should be the first order of the day thee.
Lord J. RUSSELL intimated that the remainder of
the estimates would be taken on Friday.
Lord JOHN MANNERS asked if there had been
any information received by Government respecting a
collision between the British troops and the Portuguese
insurgents?
Lord PALMERSTON said there had been no infor-
mation to that effect.
Mr. HUME said, that under these circumstances he
would take the discussion upon the subject that evening,
and he hoped that one of the remaining items in the
supplies would be postponed, that he might have an
opportunity of bringing it forward.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he was quite ready at any
time to bring on the discussion, if the papers connected
with the subject were laid on the table. He could not,
however, permit himself to fix a day till the papers
were in the hands of the Members of the House.
Mr. HUME would like to know from the Noble Lord
the Secretary for Foreign Affairs what were the papers
which could not be ready. He thought a few days were
surely sufficient to have them in readiness.
Lord PALMERSTON said that every possible expe-
dition would be used in getting them ready, but in trans-
actions such as these a great amount of correspondence
necessarily passed, and it took some time to prepare it
to be laid before the House.
Lord GEORGE BENTINCK said, perhaps the Noble
Lord would also consent to lay upon the table of the
House the proclamation of Vie Queen to her subjects.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he should have no ob •
jection to lay the proclamation before the House when
the other papers should be produced; but he hoped
the House would not come to any decision upon
the subject until the matter was fully before them.
There were the offers made by other Powers which the
House could not be aware of, and he therefore did not
want to give any papers which would merely suit the
object of Honourable Gentlemen who asked for them.

Lord JOHN MANNERS suggested the charter by
which the Queen of Portugal held her throne should be
included in the papers.
BUSINESS OF THE SESSION.

Mr. DWETT desired to know what business the

1 Noble Lord the Prime Minister intended to proceed
with, ana what to alec.elen ?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—In answering that question,
I beg to remind the Hon. Member that I stated on Fri-
day, after having given notice what would he the busi-
ness I should propose to take in the present week, that
I would state further on this day what course we intend
to take with respect to other Bills which are on the table;
and I think it will be better that I should take those
different Bills in the order in which they now stand,
than answer at once the question which the Hon. Mem-
ber has put. One of the first Bills in the orders of the day
is the Registering Births, &c. (Scotland) Bill. I stated
with regard to that Bill, and another which is connected
with it, before the holidays, either that they should
come forward this day or be taken into consideration
next Monday; but what I now propose to do is, seeing
the state of business, and seeing the great objections
that have been made to these Bills in Scotland, to fix
them for Monday next as the first thing to be taken,
and that my Right Hon. Friend who brought them for-
ward should then state their general purport, and the
reasons for which he thinks they are not liable to the
objections which have been made to them in many
quarters, and state also what is the shape in which we
should wish them to stand; and, after that, we propose
not to proceed with them during the present session of
Parliament, but leave them for further consideration in
Scotland. With respect to another Bill which stands
for to-night—the Ecclesiastical Commissioners
think it absolutely necessary for the duly carrying on
the business before that Commission that some amend-
ment should take place in the composition of the
Commission; but, at the same time, I find that the
particular mode in which we have proposed that that
I amendment should be made has met with strong oppo-
sition from persons of the greatest authority in the
Church; and, therefore, I mean likewise to leave that
Bill for further consideration, and to see whether I can-
not by some other mode, or, if necessary, by persevering
in the present proposition, carry, in a future session, a
Bill fur the purpose of amending the mode of conducting
the business of that Commission, affecting, as it does,
not only the property of the Church, but affecting great
numbers of laymen in this country.—(Hear, hear.)
Next, with regard to a Bill which has excited a good
deal of discussion out of this House, and to which twiny
objections have been stated, but which has been now
put into another shape—l mean the Railways Bill—we
propose to take the second reading of that Bill on Mon-
day next, unless this urgent question respecting Portugal
should interfere. On Thursday in next week we should
propose to proceed with the English Poor-laws Adminis-
tration Bill, which is already fixed for that day; and on
the Monday following, the 14th, we propose to go into
Committee on the Health of Towns Bill. Those are the
principal Bills which now remain for the consideration
of the House; and this disposes of the time up to the
14th of June, and answers the question of my Hon.
Friend. He asks whether, that Bill being liable to
many objections in its details, we mean to persevere with
it? My answer is, that we do think that Bill of very
essential importance, and I trust that, though it may
create a good deal of discussion in this House, the
objections do not affect the principle of the Bill, and that
we may be able to arrange the details in Committee;
and I do hope to see it carried in this session.—(Hear.)
Sir R. H. INGLIS wished to ask the Secretary of the
Home Department what were the intentions of the Go-
vernment with regard to the Bill which was to regulate
the stocking trade.
Sir G. GREY said that he intended to move the se-
cond reading of that Bill this evenieg.
Mr. E. DENISON said that he had heard with some
regret the avowal of the Noble Lord that the Bill for the
reformation of the Ecclesiastical Commission was with-
drawn for the present session.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that if the Hon. Gentleman
would bring forward his motion, without impugning the
conduct of the Commissioners, he should not oppose it.
Mr. J. COLLETT wished to know whether it was the
intention of the Government to create a new bishop or
bishoprics this session ; and whether they were to have
seats in the House of Lords?
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the Government intended
to introduce a Bill into the other House of Parliament
for the purpose of repeating part of the Act for uniting
the Bishoprics of Bangor and St. Asaph, and also for
providing a new Bishop for Manchester. It was not
intended to add to the seats in the House.
Mr. C. BERKELEY said he had received a commu-
nication from the First Lord Commissioner of Woods
and Forests informing him that he was as yet unable to
give him an answer to his question respecting the Wel-
lington statue.—(Laughter.) He should like to know
when the Noble Lord would be able to answer his ques-
tion.

Lord J. RUSSELL said that he understood the Noble
Lord would be able to answer the question on Thunday.
ARMED INTERVENTION OF ENGLAND IN
THE AFFAIRS OF PORTUGAL.
Mr. BERNAL OSBORNE said he had to object to the
armed intervention of this country in the affairs of Portu.
gal, as he thought such intervention would be dangerous
to liberty, and favourable to despotism, and he hop( d
his Hon. Friend the Member for Montrose would not
be induced, by honied words, to discontinue the prose-
cution of his views on this matter.
Mr. HUME said he had already stated his intention
of bringing on the question on Friday next. He should
feel himself bound to avail himself of every opportunity
•f bringing the question forward.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, he could assure his lion.
Friend and the House, that there was no wish on the part
of her Majesty's Government to avoid this discussion, be-
cause the more the question was known the better the
Government would stand ; but he did not think that the
House should enter upon the question until certain docu-
ments, for which the Chancellor of the Exchequer
would move, were laid before them.
Mr. HUME said, documents or no documents, he
would move for a Committee on Friday.
Mr. B. OSBORNE said he would refuse all motions
to go into a Committee of Supply till the question was
brought forward.
Mr. P. BORTHWICK said the Noble Lord's answer
would produce a greater effect on Portugal than any
force he could send out. He hoped, however, the Noble
Lord would hasten the printing of the papers as much
as possible.
Lord GEORGE BENTINCK asked it the Noble
Lord would have any objection to lay the papers on the
table of the House in detached portions, for if they were
so voluminous as had been stated, it would be impos-
sible for lion. Members to read them in sufficient time.
He thought, therefore, it would be a great convenience
if his suggestion were attended to.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said they would be brought
forward as expeditiously as possible.
POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, that in moving the
order of the day for the consideration of the Lords'
amendments on the Poor Relief (Ireland) Bill he wished
to draw the attention of the Speaker to the course
adopted by his predecessor, Lord Dumtermline, when he
was in the chair in 1838. He would therefore ask the
Speaker to state what his opinion was of those amend-
ments, and how they affs,cted the privileges of the Hou,e.
The SPEAKER said he had no hesitation in saying
that the amendments made by the House of Lords to
the Poor Relief (Ireland) Bill and the Landed Pro-
perty (Ireland) Bill were an infringement of the privi-
leg 's of this House. In 1838, when similar amendments
were passed by the Lords to those they had introduced
into the Poor Relief (Ireland) Bill, the House agreed to
waive its privileges, and it was for the House to decide
whether they would adhere to that practice in the present
instance_ With regard, however, to the Landed Property
(Ireland) Bill, there was no precedent for the guidance
of the House, and the case was the more difficult
to deal with, because the amendments re-
lated to funds to be drawn out of the Consolidated
Fund, while in the other case the amendments related

only to local rates.—(Hear, hear.) It was, nevertheless,
for the House to decide iu both cases what course should

be taken.

The order of the day for the consideration of tl e
Lords' amendments to the Poor Relief (Ireland) Bill was

then read.

Lord J. RUSSELL, in moving the consideration of
the amendments, said the House would perceive that
the opinion given from the Chair was entirely in
conformity with the one given in 1838.—(Hear).
The question was whether it was expedient that they
should waive their privileges. Those cases to which
reference had been made were of local taxation, in which
the object in view was not taxation for any object of the
State, but had merely in view local objects. With regard
to the last of these, one of the chief amendments made
by the Lords was the division of the taxation into what
was termed electoral divisions, and that was an amend
ment which had been agreed to by the House of Common,.
It did materially alter the burden of taxation ; but con-
sidering that the object of this amendment was the same
as that to which he referred, he was not disposed to
think that they ought to press the point of privilege. But
it was quite another question when they came to consider
it apart from privilege, and they should take in to considera-
tion in what state the House of Lords had returned to
them the Bill which they had sent up. That Bill was of
a very important nature—it extended relief to all the old
and infirm, whether in or out of the workhouse, and t 9
unads
the able-bodied poor outside, if the workhouesefo
w
With regard to those two great principles, h
that
the House of Lords had left them untouched. There
was the amendment proposed for the purpose of: limitinrge
the operation of this Bill to three years. Such a
clause would have been most
soiont provision ap-
rious, and he
was glad to see that
Wa nog glad
to
of the Bill remained
n tchhaatn gae
ll
tpheea r eold a
iinn
features
l .
on its return to that House. It was true that the Lords
had insisted that the out-door relief should be
another
given by
electoral division ; but there wag,
the omission
s, however,
seemedh
tocounteract
relieved the electoral di-
payment clause, which
olauso
whie
ymentthe
Lord
Tvihsioonpsrovifsrioomn introducedby
counteracted the evil which would
ariseo r
from
sot
mh
ve
es
trehye
omis-
sion made by the Lords ; and, considering that as a
change which would not be injurious
to the Bill,
and that the Lords had agreed to all the main
points of the measure ; and, considering also the
necessity of the measure receiving the sanction of
both Houses this session, he was disposed to re-
commend them to agree to the amendments.
object to the alteration which enacted that theHleanddidlo notr
s
of the highest rating should sit upon the boards of