The Sun.
London, England, 1847-07-07 00:00:00

SPANISH BONDS.

Lord G. BENTINCK then rose to move an address to
the Crown, praying her Majesty to take such steps as
her Majesty may be graciously pleased to deem advisable
to secure for the British holders of unpaid Spanish
Bonds redress from the Government of Spain. That
country, the Noble Lord stated, owed to foreign coun-
tries a debt amounting to 78 millions sterling, but for
the last few years she had only paid interest upon about
seven millions. The claims of British subjects
upon Spain amounted to forty-six millions, ai?d
he should contend that this debt could be legally
recovered under the law of nations, while he should
at the same time show that Spain was fully
able to pay it. Within the last twelve years the revenue
of Spain had doubled, and, according to the last state-
ment of their Minister of Finance, she had considerable
excess over her expenditure, notwithstanding that it
was most extravagant. The population of Spain
amounted to fifteen millions, whilst her revenue
amounted to 12,266,0004 Prussia, with the same popu-
lation, maintained her government with 8,000,0001.,
and, notwithstanding the economy of her revenue, she
' was able to pay her debts and maintain her credit.
The reason of this was explained when they bore in
mind that the Court of Spain was one of the most profli-
gate and extravagant in the world. The expenses of
the Court alone amounted to 140,0001. more than the
whole amount received by the Queen of England.
But that would be nothing to them if Spain
paid her debts ; but she refused to do any-
thing of tho sort, notwithstanding that she had a
surplus over her revenue of 422,0001. per annum.
The Noble Lord then referred to Grotius as an authority
for resorting to stringent measures for the recovery of
just debts due to one country from a country unwilling
to discharge them. there was no dispute about the
debt, as it had been recognised by each Finance Minister
sof Spain; but long before
or Vatel the right of
n
debts from another by reprisals,
andothe e
nation
time by al l
et
to
fh the
receive
either (;governments o v
justn Grotiusm e t
if necessary, was recognised. During the time of the
Romans, for instance, no law was more stringently observed
than that of paying what one owed. He was glad to have
an opportunity of discussing this matter in the presence
of the Noble Lord (Lord Palmerston), because no Minis-
ter of this country had been more anxious to protect
this country from being injured by the /aches of other
nations.—(Hear, hear.) In 1818 Sir Robert Walpole
endeavoured
a Bill
empowering the Government
o m
to foreign nations without the interven-
tionbut the House of Commons re-
stricted the Bill, and made it apply to one specific object.
In 1835, by the conduct of the British Government,
a large sum of money owing by Prussia to
personsoti,rua ,aiin this
adoptedwhich owed some of his subjects a large sum of money,
as he seized a ship, and by this reprisal succeeded in
the object he had in view. The Noble Lord quoted
other instances. British subjects had lent their
country
a similar course towards Spain,
money to the Sp.snish nation with their eyes
open—in fact, the money was lent at a cheaper rate
than that lent to the British Government from 1803
to 1814, as it was lent at 651. fur 100/. stock.—(Hear,
hear.) His Noble 1 riend (Lord Palmerston) stated
that if Portugal did not defray the sums due
to the Auxiliary .Legion of Portugal, he would
compel them. Lord Howard de Walden was instructed
in 1840 to inform her Faithful Majesty that unless the
convention for this purpose was immediately agreed to and
he was enabled to return it ratified in a fortnight, the
British Government would take immediate measures to
obtain redress.—(Hear.) Altogether there was owing,
with arrears of interest, 341,7551. which was due to the
Duke of Wellington, Lord Beresford, and a number of
other well known British officers, the whole of which
was paid; and his Noble Friend adopted a similar course
with respect to the United States with similar results.
There was no excuse why Spain should not pay those
debts, for he found that the value of the exports from
Porto Rico and Cuba had greatly increased of late years.
He found that the exports of Porto Rico, which in
1834 had been only 938,000/., had increased in 1845
to 2,000,0001., and the revenue last year from Porto
Rico and Cuba amounted to 2,262,5001., He thought,
therefore, that the resources o f Spain were amply suifi-
cient to pay her debts. The whole amount contri-
buted by Spanish people to pay off that country's
foreign debt was only 200,0001. per annum, or about 3d.
per head on the whole of the population. Now, if any
country in the world had a right to call upon Spain to
pay her just debts, it was England—England, which had
never neglected her duty—which had paid 20s. in the
pound—which had freed the continent from the
tyranny of Napoleon ; surely. England was en-
titled to ask a nation, rich in resources, to pay
3s. 6d. in the pound, or, three farthings . per week for
each individual of her population. Spain, when she
' llowed for ever 1001.
settled with her own creditors, a
2501. of stock, which was then at 60 per cent.L aterest. The
result was that the home creditor was receiving interest
at the rate of 7
per cent., while the foreign creditors
were literally receiving nothing. He (Lord G. Bentinck)
did not stand there the tool of the great money lenders
he stood there
of the city ;in the proud position of the
advocate of the widows and the orphans of the brave
men who fought and fell in Spain, and whose
little property was lost in the funds of that
country. His sympathies were with that class,
and he would take thepliberty of reading to the House a
letter from an individual of that class which always
received the sympathy of that house—he meant a retired
half pay officer. The Noble Lord then read the letter,
which stated that the whole of thirty years' savings
(.a,OOO/.) had been in one unfortunate hour vested in the
Spanish funds. The claims of a large family had com-
pelled him to part with that stock from time to time,
until he was now in the position that he had nothing
further to lose. He called upon' the Government to com-
pel Spain to make good those just claims. The Noble
Lord then concluded by reading his motion.
Lord PALMERSTON said, that however ho admitted
the. justness of the claims of the Spanish bondholders, he
felt still that ho could not coincide in the mode by which
the Noble Lord sought to enforce them. He could not
consent that Great Britain should urge, by any threaten-
ing mode, the claims of her subjects. Were this an in-
fringement on the trade and commerce of the British
subjects, the Government of this country would have
but one course to pursue, but this was a very different
case, and justice could only be had by means of the law
of the country in question. If that law were badly ad-
ministered, or so defective that injustice would be offered
to the subject of this country, then this Government
might have a right to interfere, but this was a contract
enteredinto between private individuals and a foreign
state, and only by the laws of that country
could redress be obtained. If individuals were

pleased to risk an investment of capital in the
funds of a foreign country at their own risk they
did it, but it could not surely be maintained that the
British Government should then be compelled to step in
and to enforce the claims of these subjects. He could
not, entertaining these opinions, agree in the propriety
of the address to her Majesty, which had been moved
by the Noble Lord. He considered that it was most
disgraceful on the part of Spain not to pav these debts.
He would not retract the expression.—(Hear, hear.)
He considered it most disgraceful that that country
should have squandered their resources, that the Mem-
bers of the Administration should, by a system of pil-
lage, be allowed to amass large fortunes—(Hear, hear)
—while the honest creditor was allowed to sink into a
state of destitution and of ruin. Spain had no excuse
to offer: her resources were double what it had been ten
years ago, and might be doubled again if the energies of
the oountry were properly directed. But with her re-
strictive system of commerce, a contraband trade was
induced, which employed at least 130,000 men, while
another 20,000 was employed in watching these.—
(Laughter.) This in'ght be termed protection to native
manufactures —(Laughter.) But there was no industry
excepting the industry of the contrabandists, which
made a man a smuggler to- day and a robber
to-morrow. Such was the present state of Spain,
and while this state of things continued there remained
little hope that matters would be improved. He was
bound to say that all the efforts of this country for the
liberating of Spaqi had been counteracted by the mis-
taken jealousy of the French Government. He hoped,
however, that the time might yet arrive when Spain
would be induced to sweep away this restrictive system,
which may enable her to double her resources, and so to
pay the just debts which were due to other countries ; he
trusted that they would see soon that the interest due
upon their debt was not their own, and that they were
only in the situation of receivers of the revenue to that
extent for the behoof of others. He trusted that the
North American States would soon wipe away the dis-
grace which at present attached to their non-payment
of their obligations, and on that point, therefore, he would
follow the Noble Lord no further. The Noble Lord referred
to the enforcement by Great Britain of the treaty of
1814, of the claims of Marshal Beresford and other sub-
jects of the British Crown, but the Noble Lord would
see that there was a very great differenoe between that
case and the present. In the former case, the Govern-
ment of this country had been one of the contracting
parties ; in the latter, the contract was one between
private individuals and a foreign country. But
at the same time he would call upon foreign
countries to do justice to the subjects of this
country, because the time might come when the Govern-
ment might be compelled by that House no longer to see
150,000,0001. of money due to British subjects, without
one farthing of interest upon that money being paid. It
was not that the British Government were afraid of any
country that they were so long quiet, for they feared not
one or all of these foreign countries, where the interests
of the British subjects were involved.—(Cheers.)
Mr. HUME thought that where the private subjects
of Britain had claims upon any foreign countries, it was
the more incumbent on the British Government to inter-

fere; with respect to North America, he trusted that the
tone of the Noble Lord would influence North America
to repay the obligations they had incurred, and to retrieve
their foreign high moral character.
Lord G. BENTINCK said, that after the very satis-
factory manner in which the Noble Lord had met his
motion, he should not think of pressing it, and he would,
therefore, with the sanction of the House, beg leave to
withdraw it.
Mr. P. BORTHIVICK said, that the words of the
Noble Lord would be more effectual to the procuring of

•
justice for the people of this country, than an army
would.

Sir DE LACY EVANS said that the subject of
Spain could never be introduced without an attack being
made on the present dynasty. He did not think that
this was altogether fair, and however much attached
the Hon. Member opposite might be to the deposed
family, he should be prepared to do, at least, justice to
the reigning Queen.
The motion was then withdrawn.
THE LEADERS OF THE JUNTA. _

In answer t) a question from Mr. HORSMAN,
Lord PALMERSTON said, that although Colonel
Wylde would not treat with the Junta for the purpose
of including Count Das Antas and Sa Bandiera, in the
general amnesty issued by the Portuguese Government,
yet he had no doubt but they were included in it.
In answer to a question from Mr. P. BORTHWICK,
Lord PALMERSTON said that the Government had
formally pronounced the freedom of the prisoners now
on the coast of Africa at the departure of the last
dispatch; no ship had, however, been sent for them.
BILL FOR THE REPEAL OF DISCRIMINATING
DUTIES ON REFINED SUGARS.
Mr. MOFFATT moved for leave to bring in a Bill
for this purpose.
Mr. EWART seconded the motion. He was opposed
to all discriminating duties on teas and sugars, and he
thought the period was come when all such should be
done away with.
On the question being put,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER opposed
the motion. He thought it would be well to postpone
the matter for a year, when the whole question would
require to be reconsidered.
Mr. MOFFATT, after a few words, withdrew his
motion.
POOR REMOVAL BILL.
Mr. FITZROY moved for leave to bring in a Bill to
explain an Act of the 10th year of her present Majesty
for amending the laws relating to the removal of the
poor.
Sir GEORGE GREY said that he would offer no
opposition to the introduction of the Bill, but he would
not promise the Hon. Member that he should support
the second reading. He thought that this subject would
be well left over to another session.

Leave was given to bring in the Bill.
ACCIDENTS IN COLLIERIES.

Mr. HUME, in the absence of Mr. Duncombe,
moved for leave to bring in a Bill to prevent the use of
gunpowder and candles in collieries.
After a few words from Sir G. GREY,
Leave was given to bring in the Bill.
SCINDE.

Mr. HUME moved for copies of all the correspond-
ence that has taken place between the Court of Directors
and the Secret Committee with the Government of India
and the Board of Control, on the subject of Scinde, since
last returns ; and a return of the Revenue and expendi-
ture of India for the last three years.—Motion agreed to.
PAYMENTS TO MINISTERS AND CONGRE-

CATIONS.
Mr. HUME also moved for a return of all payments
during the years 1844, 1845, 1846, and 1847, under the
Act 6 Geo. IV., c. 87, to ministers and congregations,
and others, abroad, with the names and places, and
amounts to each in each year, and the aggregate sum in
each year.-Motion agreed to.
GRANTS TO PROTESTANT DISSENTERS.
Mr. lIUME also moved for copies of any correspond-
ence, since the Ist day of January, 1847, between the
Non-conforming or Protestant Dissenting ministers iu
Ireland and the Irish Government or the Treasury, re-
specting any increase in their grant, or any suspension
of the rules under which the congregations have to pay
certain sums before their ministers can receive the Par-
li.amentary grant.-Motion agreed to.
PROPERTY AND INCOME-TAX.
Mr. MOFFATT moved for a return of the charge on
persons in trade and professions to the property and in
come-tax, 5 and 6 Vic , c. 35, under schedule D, for the
year ending the sth day of January, 1847, distinguish
fog the amounts charged in classes, from above 1501. and
under 2001. ; 200/. an under 300/. ; 300/. and under
4001. ; 400/. and under 5001. ; 500/. and under 600/. ;
6001. and under 700 Z ; 7001. and under 8001. ; 800/. anti
under 900/. ; 900/. and under 1,000/. ; 1,000/. and under
1,5001. ; 1,5001. and under 2,000/. ; 2,500/. and under
3.000/. ; 3,000/. and under 4,0004 ; 4,000/. and under
5,000/. ; 5,000/. and under 10,000/. ; 10,000/. and under
20,000/. ; 20,000/. and under 30,0001. ; 30,000/. and under
50,0004 ; 50,000/. and upwards ; showing the amount
chargeable in each class, the number of persons in each
class, and the amount of tax received from each class.
Also, for a return of charge to the property and income-
tax, 5 and 6 Vic., c. 35, on persons in receipt oi
salaries, pensions, annuities, or other payments
under schedule E, distinguishing the amounts
charged in classes, from above 1501. and
under 200/. ; 2001. and under 300/. ; 3001. and under
400/. ; 400/. and under 5001. ; 5001. and under 600/ ;
WO/. and under 700/. ; 7001. and under 8001. ; 800/. and
under 900/. ; 9001. and under 1,000/. ; 1,0001. and under
1,500/. ; 1,500/. and under 2,0001. ; 2.000/. and under
3,000/. ; 3,000/. and under 4,000/. ; 4,000/. and under
5,000/. ; 5,000/. and upwards ; showing the amount
chargeable in each class, the number of persons in each
class, and the amount of tax received from each class.
Also for a return of the net amount of property and
income tax received for the year ending the sth day of
January, 1846, classed under the several schedules A,
B, C, D, and E, contained in the Act sth and 6th Vic.,
cap. 35. Also a like return for the year ending the sth
day of January, 1847.-Motions agreed to.
INVESTMENT OF TRUST MONIES.

Mr. HOPEl33oved for, and obtained leave to, bring in
a Bill to facilitate the investment of trust monies in the
improvement of land.
MASTERS IN CHANCERY.—AFFIDAVIT
OFFICE BILL.

The House then went into Committee on this Bill,
the several clauses ►ere agreed to, and the Bill was
reported.
CUSTODY OF OFFENDERS BILL.

On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EX
CHEQUER, the Bill was read a third time and passed.

JOINT-STOCK COMPANIES' BILL.
This Bill was also read a third time and passed.
STOCK IN TRADE EXEMPTION BILL.
This Bill went through Committee, and the severa,
clauses were agreed to.

DRAINAGE OF LAND (IRELAND) BILL.
The report upon this Bill was brought up and agreed
to, and the Bill was ordered to be engrossed.
SHANNON NAVIGATION BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
MUSSEL FISHERIES BILL (SCOTLAND.)
Report received.
NEW ZEALAND COMPANY BILL.
Report received.
LONDON BRIDGE APPROACHES BILL.
Order for the second reading of this Bill discharged.
POST-OFFICE BILL.
On the order of the day being read for bringing up
the report on this Bill for the purpose of discharging it,
hadM tru.rAneGdLhlisONatßteYntiionnqutioredtheif the
subject In loof.
having
gemoanne
colonies?un
uniform rate of postage between this country and all the
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
would consider the matter.
The report iNitS thou ordered to b 3 brought up to.
morrow,.