The Sun.
London, England, 1823-03-11 00:00:00

'he Ilon. M ember concluded hy,inoving that instead of 19,3841
the vote be 9,6921.
The question having lreen,put,
Sir JOHN BRY,DOf.44S rose, and having solicited the in-
dulgence of the House, should his being unaccustomed to
address them, betray him into any unparliainentary CX-
pressions, said, that 'Without regarding the source of the Ho-
nourable illerober's infornition, he knew, and would fear-
lessly state, that it w°s incorrect. • He had during the late
rebellion, commanded many corps of yeomanry-, and he Would
undertah'e to say that there was tin act of men, and no bodies of
troops, animated with greater zeal and loyit)tY than they hid
uniformly displayed-4 Hear, hear !)—Since that period in
which their public services were so valuable, they had conti-
nued in the same line of good conduct. The Honourable
Prienf.,er said that the qualilieation of being an Orangeman
.w .as necessary to admission into the Yeomanry Corps.
knew of none, however, beyond the quacation ot loyalty
und good conduct. i bear !)—lf, the Yeomanry Carps
were disbanded, some' other Collis must be raised in their
Send, and there could be noae more constitutional. LTl4;r
these views he should oppose the amendment of thelLonour.

able Member.
tiir G. II ILL offered his thanks the llon. Member for
Aberdeen, for having given him this opportunity of refuting
tb' acrimonious, malignant. and unfounded aspersion which
-had latterly been levelled against the Yeomanry (3orps of Ire-
. hod. The 'nom-Member had said that the Londonderry l'eo.
raanry were raised for the purpose of disturbance. Now, he
desired he would state from what .source he had presumed to
make such an assertion.—(eries of Order!)—The lion. Member
had said so.—.(" No.")—lf he would retract what he had said

he would say no more.
. Mr. ACME intimated that he would retract nothing.
Mr. BENNET observed, that the Hon. Member opposite
new have dreamed what he charged upset his Hon. Friend.
' Sir GEORGE H I Ll.—" Then 11 desire to know what wattle
be did use ?"—He maintained, that when an Honourable Alem-
bri aspersed a body of men so valuable as the Yeomanry had
proved themselves, commanded by the honourable men of the
kont, and filled by respectable farmers and others, it was his
-duty to give up the source of his information. He thought he
•lii ad boend to do that and not leave it,. upon the mere assertion
of the Hon. Member for Aberdeen that such waq the fact.—
The flon. Baronet proceeded to enter into a defence of the
' yeomanry Corps. There were, he stated, three provinces of
Ireland proved to be sworn to the overthrow of the Laws and
Goverment, and the extirpation of all Protestants; and these
peovinces were chiefly protected by the Yeomanry—and this
was the opportunity taken to malign these Bodies ! The Hole
Member, in particular, had attacked his (Sir Oeorge's Hill's)
Corps, the Londonderry Yeomanry e and he must say, that
'he su4pected the quarter whence it originated. But to
give the Ilotiee an idea of the justice of the charge,' he
vareld suite how they had of late been engaged. (in the
eteth of October, three bemired of them were put upon per-
uement duty, thus setting free one of the best regiments
of the line to ' ;to elsewhere. They had done garrison duty
in tbe city and liberties of Londonderry till the month of
dune last year, and during the whole of that period riot one
complaint was made against any one individual.—(Hear!)—
The lath December was the anniversary of raising the siege of
the town, and had always been celebrated, and always with
perfect unanimity. hut, because these individuals had get
arms in their bandit' the celebration of an event so deer to the
citizen:; of leantionderry was abandoned—(llear, hear, hear!)-:
' Another lion. Member and himself had been to Ditblin, drawn
there by his Majeety's presence, and returned to Londonderry
on the 224, when two or three hundred persons assembled round
his house to welcome his return ; having done which they
• peeteefully separated. Upon this trifling incident a complaint
wus tratiemitted to the Irish Government, that the Commanding
Otterr and corps of Londonderry bad violated the recomm enda-
eine of his Majesty, by assembling in arms for the pnrposes of
triumelt and celebration. The complaint was referred to the
Brigade Major of the district, and on ingeirye occupying five
days only; served to prove that not one of the corps was in arms;
sot even the band which attended with music.---( II ear !)---It
• was true it lira been shewn that the 'tines; they played were
• " the Battle of the Boyne," "Crappies lie Down," and " God,
Seize thelt'77l.e."—t Hear !)---The 'Yeomanry of Ireland, be ale;
'cured the Illottee, not, only deserved but required their confi-
dence, in the preeent situation of that ctiuntry: Rehelltori there
was going on thle hour, and it was really impossible that hue
' man velure retitle bear to hear, night,
._after night, the wiper.
atoms that had been cast upon them. Ile wished not to trans-
gress the wise rules' of that House, but he desired to make a
declaration, which lie made on the honour of a gentkman. This
was, that he had been brought up in the principles called Orange
prieciplee, end should continue m them to the day of his death.
lierledard, upon his honour, he was not • an Orang.enian,
* n Hier hound by oath nor association to those bodies. Neither
: , be know one Gentleman, whom he visited, in his part of the
loit
uity, who was an Orangeman. Tina combinatiOn was most.
.. '„. : yto be found amongst the fAriners, wbo, impelled by
.the tirst
ptinciples of human nature-01one of self-preservation.—.o34
first thoogitt of thus associating for the sake of protection. and
nothing else. But persons of Ids rank in life did not feel- the
necessity of such a combination, and therefore never thought
ofjelning in it. With regard to the projected Bill on this nub.
ject, he begged to say, that as part of the law of the land, it
wit* good and necessary. With regard to secret societies, and
- *erect oaths, lie wax not one who upheld them.• What wasi re-
quired in the present times, he considered, was ultra-royalty. •
Mr. SPRING RICE was of opinion, that if good were to be
derived from these discuesions, or concord promoted, they must
be conducted with good temper.--{Hear, hear !)--He protested
• . egainst the principle of Orange. Bodies. He knew that some
of the best and most honourable men belonged to them, whoee
egood intentions were cheelced by party ties. Ile applied his
both to sworn Orangemen, anti to those who, like die Hon.
eiletriber opposite (Sir George Hill), had taken the infection
In the netural way.--(A laugh.)--Ile was opposed to those who
ware far throwing overlioard the oath of the Orangeman and
the thrills of °rain/016m, but for preserving and cherishing the
,glery, the triuttiph, and epirle of the party. .Ile was sorry to
• .heve heard the declaration of the Hon. Member opposite; of
his determined adherence to this party.spirit, as he thought it
.wee celcolated. to do . any thing but good pirate other side of
the water. As to the secret oaths of the Orangemen, the. body
-wee the same in that respect as Freemasons—but in all other
reapects the difference was, that one was innoxious, the other
eridangeretl the pelage of the country, and spread alarm far and
wide. GOVernMent then ought not to take steps to put do wn the
bode';, but to appeal to the good feeling and oOd sense of the
• country sod those. who cempoeed them. Tghe battle of the
gdyne recall,el the meat grateful recollections' to the mind of
boss !'retests :It and Orangeman . but to the Catholics it recalled
noth fog but, what was galling. 'By King WM hon. one million
of greys heti been forfeited, and 4,001) persons outlawed. As to
it': illl alhitied to, it was a deluelon--the far:na might he die.
peeled Frith', but the spirit would still rernaii: to work its heart-
•burriiitg course. With regard to the Yeomanry, teany, he be-
lieved, were not Orangemen, but the corps were becoming more
end more so.. in the ,South of Ireland, Vrange'Lodges had
'Jim been instittitiel by a met of Policemen, and had ever since
bpen extending its baneful influence to all the constituted au-
' thorities, reel or every institution.
esir lt. HILL said a few words in explaratiov.
14f r. DAWSON bad conceived hopes front the commence-
ill
ent'ef his lion. Friend's speech (Mr: ,S. Rice), that he would
not hheiself follow the example of that tone which be depre-
cated it. others. But when he went so far as to say that Orange
prineiphee arid spirit pervaded every institution, and all the
Constivted Authorities, he must think he hail transgressed
those limiti of moderatien which lie had prescribed to others.
That he was sure wax not the way to attain concord and una-
nimity. Hie Honourable Friend was wrong in attributing the
' introduction of Orengeieni to the P(diceinen }he bud notieed—
it WWI to. the town tof liandoe that it took its might. lint if
I.' was r.,ot dispo3ad to agree with - his Honourable Friend
'Orrtia.titit, he wee still less disposed to agree with the Honour-
. Alec r.iiiinher for„ herdeen. Ile had hail the honour to -COM-
-Maud a yeomanry corpe, in a part of the country where the
epirlt of Oraneeisin 'wee slid to flourislein the greatest perfec-
teen. Ile had even heerd it said of him, that he carried the
spirit. so fax that he was ready to foment a spirit of insurree-
, tem in the country,usd wue at any thee ready to take up arms
againtt the Governineet. He must say it was very bant that
Hoe. Gotten-ten ;;bouts', gene down to that House, anti make
aesterdone and accusetiorte from which Gentlemen connected with
the country abstained. From whatever source these accusations
came, 'whether front letters signed, or anonymous, they proceed.
od from woo daligeroos cheraeters. At all events, this was not
the tame to yetoinelgatti such ,ealuinnies. Such assertions had
,the Wearer retrieving still .fartber off the reconciliation Ito re-
quisite, and so enuch deerirod.--(llear !)—The origin of the
yootastuy ;aye was owing to the insuffictency of the means of
covernment ce put down the rebellion, and loyalty, end a de.
*ire telepeese ineurrection, Way all that was dewed to qualify a
eentlidete fer.adinleeion. „Intim course of time, however, the
vett of 4;ssenition whirs agitated, the country, found its. way
Into thole corps. It 'first sheicd itself in the application of
the Catholics to Mr. What% to he allowed-to enrol them-
eelvea in sepnrete corps. Mr. rellram desired them to go back
and mingle with their Protestant comrades, but this was net,
ei,,reied with. it wita,an important fact, that where the Pro.
testanti and Persbyteriens abounded, the corps also abounded,
and Where the Catholics, pretiondierated,, these,corps declined,
. and the pea,:eable reed insorreetionary spirit were in the same
'
Ingot -Thee in tics County of A Won there were twenty-nine,
. ,p it
in teenage* tvesin4, and ,many other in the save way,' and
here xli. sNre peatecoMe. -I,a Cod , theiy were eight, in V.il.
kenny,three, in bitnericit three,
_and what was the sand!..
tion of these (*tides.; In every one of them. the Insarree.
—4
tion Act was in opetittionhe (Deposition was bad—such as,
taught neither to fear ilitKl,
,nor respect matt.—{Hear, heard)---
There wit no part al' hie Majesty's dominions in which more

contmtpt was shorn for the laws, and more hatred for the Con.
stitution, than were to be Nfitnesst:d h the Sontli.Of !Matta.
and in no part of the empire were there persons whop it would
be more dangerous to trait with arms. Lii,considered the yeo.
manryforee to he of no small importance, and must object to a
meatnre which would go to disarm the Protestants in the North
of Ireland, and put arms in hands of those who could not
be safely trusted with theM, and who Might possibly abuse
th?m, As Commander cif a colts of yeomanry, he could not
.but rise as he had done on this occasion, and give vent to what
he hoped would appear a proper feeling, under all the eireum-
.stances of the case.

lllr. S. RWE explained. •
St .J. NEWPORT would not retaliate. by i ecin u (ion s
against the loth of Ireland, on the sweeping epithets dealt out
by the lice. Gentleman against the South, when he had stated
to the •liouselatian contained *to man who had any-regard for
the duties of a teocel subject, moral, civil, or religious. This in
effect had been stated, as thin on. Gentledianbad declared, that
the inhabitants of ..that part of Ireland had no fear of Clod, and
no regard for men. Though he hail no charge to bring against
Waterford, it had •been included in the injurious statement.
—lle (Sir J. Newport) had long been of opinion that for a.
country situated as Ireland was, a local force,•such as Yeo-
manry or Militia, et as not suited to its condition, as the indi-
viduals for Ming these corps naturally carried with them into any
service which they might have to perform, all the party feel- ,
logs and private prejudices which might prevail in those parts.
When the lion. Gentleman talked of the Solidi of Irelaud, it
was not well to recall the horrors of IPA Ile was older than
the Hon. Gentleman, and unfortunately had seen more of those
troubles than lie'desired, and knew more on the subject than the
lion. Gintleman could know but from tradition. But much
as he had suffered front those who were then rebels, lie did not
think it right to goad their descendants by recalling the occur-
rences of that period. It was time that• the veil of oblivion
should descend oti. them ; and he would say, for God's sake,
after twenty years had elapsed, let not the descendants of the.
parties he taunted with the follies or crimei of their ancestry.
It was desirable that all parties should abstain from taking
such a course, but it was especially necessary that • the Home
Secte,tury, whose duty it was to guard against breaches of the
public peace, should avoid indulging in such accusations. Ile
was anxious that measures of conciliation should be adopted,
but he did, not say. that the Yeomanry Corps ought wholly
to cease at this time. Anxious as lie had already stated
himself to be for conciliation, he wished to see all par-
ties come forward in the spirit of that admirable letter
which his Majesty hail left to Ireland, and if they did so more
would be done for the commercial prosperity of the country,
which could only be established on its moral prosperity than
would be effated by any other means. Something bail been
stated by the lion. Gentleman respecting the contrast between
the Yeomanry and the Volunteers. If there was a period in
which the law had been better obeyed than in any other, it was
in the three years when the Volunteer force WA% kept up. Ile
wished the whole subject to be looked at without that acrimony,
which too often prevailed when Irish questions were brought
under discussion.
Mr. DAWSON, in explanation, said he had not made the
supposed comparison between the Yeomanry and the Volun-
teers, nor had he meant to describe the whole population of the
South of Ireland as having no fear 'for God and no respect for
man. Ile had only intended to apply those expressions tollie
parties who had taken arms against their Sovereign.
Mr. PLUNKETT' was sorry the topics of this night had
been brought forward for discussion, after the cheering prospect
held out at the close of the last debate. He would not have
troubled the House with one word on the present occasion'bad
he not feared that his silence' would be taken for an admission
of facts which had been alleged or inferred. It had been put to
him, whether it did not come within his knowledge that the
Yeomanry of Ireland had inieconducted themselves in various
parts, and 'used their arms improperly in sonic instances. lie
begged to say in the most distinct manner that no such circum-
stance had conic before him, nor did he believe the fact. He did
not mean to say that in so numerous a body there had been no.
instances of individual miebonduct, but they had not exceeded
the number which might have been looked for in any similar
body, and when they had occurred, the most active measures
had been taken to punish and put down the offence. The
general Yeomanry of Ireland presented no fair subject for
complaint, as having in any case violated the log. But while
lie thus bore testimony to the merits of that body, he could not
but regret that so few Catholics were to .be found in the yeo-
manry of the North of Ireland. He recollected a good ,deal
connected with the yeomanry from the first of its establishment
in that coantry. On many points he could speak from his own_
knowledge, a knowledge which, from the circumstances con-
fleeted wef ;
fl t its acquirements, he would gladly exchange for the
eompnrative ignorance of the lion. Gentleman on that subject.
Ile heti loot active in setting that corps going. In 1790, a
meeting of the members of the profession to which be belonged
had been b'ela in his house, where the merits of such a force
were discussed, Anti a proposition for the establishment of the
yeomanry had been forwarded to. the Government, on the fide.
lowing day. The rebellion, however, wliteh the y Iry
was intended to oppose had been hatched and promoted, not,
by Catholics but by Protestants, in the North of Ireland.,
rum Dublin to Bantry Bay he was not aware that a Roman
Catholic had been foUnd among the United Irishmen. The
plot had been termed by Protestant conepiratoes but too soon
afterwards Roman Catholics came into it. The Catholics
had offered to join the yeomanry, when that force was first
raised. He was sorry to say that the offer had not been
Met as it ought, to have been. Afterwards they wished to
forM a corps by themselves, but thitt was not acceded to by the
Government. The Catholics then got into such corps as
would receive them. That of the Lawyers, he was proud
to say, hail been the first to welcome them 'with open arms.
Many of them had assisted most meritoriously in suppress.
ing the rebellion. The Orange Societies, though composed
of most honourable individuals, did not greatly serve the cause,
as while they put down the rebellion with one -band, by their
conduct be had considered them to . excite it with the other.
This feeling hid been so strong on his mind, that when Orange
favOurs had been exhibited in the corps to which he belonged,
he (Mr., Plunkett). had expressed his disapprobation, and dee
clewed Ite would
.quit the ranks if they were not thrown aside ;
they had in consequence been put away. An allusion had
been made to What he was supposed to have said with reepect
to the Society of Ribbonmen. He had necessarily been obliged
to have recourse to strong measures since he had been in office,
to put down that dangerous Society. But when he understood
himself to have been described to have said that they had been
connected in three comities, and bound by oath to extirpate
the protestant Religion, it was necessary for him to say that
he hail never made such an essertion; nor could he do Si) with
truth. It was,certainly a most dangerous Assticiation. It was
had enough described as it teeny was, it was not worth while to
make it mill worse. The itibbonmen had been spoken of as
having caused the Orange Societies to exist., This was incor.
rect. If either Society must be spoken of as haVing called
the other into existence, it was the Orange Society that
had called into existence the Ribbonmen, as the former
Society had been fbanded at an earlier period than the
latter. The Bibbonnien formed a dangerous Society, on ac-
count, first, of their illegal oath, next front its being a reit«
gious and an exclusive 'society, and thirdly, because it was
known to he seditious, and only waited a favourable opportue
nity for doing mischief. But it had not teen its object to ex-
tirpate the Protestant religion. It combined every thing that
was absurd, ignorant, and vicious, in the country. The schemes
which had been formed in it were'att absurd anti as various as
the individuals who composed it. At one time its plan was to
join with the radicals in this country to change the Constitu-
tion and religion of ,the State; at another it was their object to
disunite the two countries.. Some of the Members had given
out that they proposed to extirpate the Protestant religion al-
, together ; but no proof was afibrded that such had re-ally
been their object. To say that a lbw curpenters or coal
-
porters could entertain such an idea was not proving it to
have been. contemplated by the society genereliy. In saying
this, he, had no wish to speak in mitigation of its mischievous
I
utracter. Ile had been the means of .bringing many of its
members to justice, anti had anxiously laboured to put it
down. The measures now to be adopted, would, he trusted,
soon.bring it, to its end. But nothing, he WAS of opinion, would
tend so much to the accomplishment of that object as the ter.
tnination of the Orange societies,' if the Gentlemen belonging
to them could be prevailed upon to dissolve them. Be knew
them to he composed cf highly respectable individuals, and
thought it would be " very desirable to prevail upon them to
withdraw from the association, but he could not concur in the
propriety of tieing any harsh mensuree or harsh language to-
ward% them. That which made Orange Associations dangerous
was not their secresy, nor their Illegal oath, but their exclusive
character. Exactly in proportion as their objects arc supposed
to be natriotic and good was the reproach cast on the Catholics
by their exclusion offensive and severe. While such aseocie-
mins of Proteetante continued, it was to be expected that si-
miler essociations of Catholics would be fonnW, front which
Protitanints would be excluded. These two hostile bands were
were called into existence, and these dissensions, so much to he
regretted, must still be kept up. He, however, saw a prospect
now of an end being put, to them. The late debate had proved
that there was no &portion to keep these angry feelings alive
which had prevailed but too long.
General lIART spoke in approbation of the Yeomanry
Corp, and WAX not aware that Catholics had been excluded
from tliem.
Mr. BUTTERWORTH, in the present state of Ireland,
'could nut but oppose a proposition for diminishing the nuni-
hers of tits Yeomanry, amid must therefore vote against the
AMendment. • • •
Mr.. GRATTAN complained of the sweeping charges pre-
ferred by the lion. Member for Londonderry on this, as also on
a former occasion, against the-SOuth of Ireland, and .contended

that these were unmerited, and that the Catholics were es anxi-
ous to do their duty as any body of melt could be.
Mr. GOT; UDC RN called the attention of the House to the
real question before them, which was, would they or could they
not diminish the numbers of the Yeomanry in Ireland. No-
thing bail been urged in favour of the proposition by the Hon.
Gentleman, or those who had followed him, but there two ar-
guments, that there were neuritis in the Yeomanry who were
'Orangemen, and therefore the Yeomanry ought to be re-
duced, or thatabeing friendly to conciliation those who had
spoken wished the Yeotnanry to be diecharged. The Hon.
Member for Aberdeen would discharge the whole.of the Yeo-
Amory Corps because Orangemen were in theM' and because
from 40111 C of them Catholics were .excluded. He called the
.Houseto bear in mind the services whiclethose corps had ren
dered. Ile would not look hack to the period of 1798, es he
agreed with the Right lion. Baronet thatit were better to 'drop
the veil over the events of that day; but he begged to remind
them of their servict-a within the last-fewyears, and these tea
Membered, it would be bad polity to dismiss them. After their
recent exertions, and after the approbation called forth by
those services, it would be 'highly improper to agree to a vote
which would seem to them to be unworthy and use-
less. As an act ofeonciliation inch a step.could have no value
for an act of injustice could not conciliate, and he therefore
thought the House could have no difficulty in resisting the
amendment.
Mr. A BERCROMBY said the Right Hon.-Gentleman had
misconceived the proposition of his- Hon. Friend, as he conei-
tiered it to he his object to put an end to the yeomanry force in
raelind, lie denied that this was the effect or the spirit of
his motion. What the Hon. Gentleman wished was, to limit
the suPplY for six months, that an opOortimity might be afford-
ed to him of forming his opinion on the nature of the force
which 'ought to be maintained. lie (Mr. Abercrombv) under-
stood Ministers to have pledged themselves to bring in a mea-
sure shortly after the recess, to extend the Act of the 39th of
the late King to Ireland. This -measure had been recom-
mended by the Marquis of 'Wellesley last November ; and he
therefore supposed that the Noble Lord considered it. neces-
sary to tranquillize that country. It was on this ground
that he (Mr. Abercromby) on a former night had: withdrawn
his motion. In that now brought forward, a degree of mistrust
was manifested, which he (Mr. Abercromby), after asking
leave to withdraw his Motion; had no right to indulge, lie
therefore could not vote for the amendment, which had been
moved, as to do so would be inconsistent with the course which
be had previously taken.
Colonel TRENCH had understood the Hon. Member for
Aberdeen to with the yeomanry force done away with altogether.
edidd state that in many of the, corps no diatinction was
made between <",atliolics and Protestants. Catholics of pm.
perty would always be as anxious to support the institutions of
the country as Protestants. He had the pleasure to know that
there were many loyal and highly meritorious Catholics in that
part of the country from which he came.
Air. Secretary PEEL, after briefly noticing the understand.
ing come to on a former night. with respect to the introduction
.6f a Bill for the extension of the Act of the 39th of the late
King to Ireland, said, if the object of the Hon. Gentleman was
only to gain time for forming an opinion,: lie had acted most
unwisely in prematurely condemning a body of men (as he had
done in bis speech), on whose merits be had hereafter to form
pit
judgment. After, the services rendered by the yeomanry,
pit would.be impolitic" to dismiss them, and, as a measure of
conciliation, such a measure would even be worse than it
was, viewed but as a measure of policy. He ninth regretted
that. the subject °had been brought forward on the present oc-
casion:. But the Hon. Getleman could not expect that when
he threw such imputations on a large body of men, that those
whose constituents they were would decline repelling them.
After aliahey had heard, be thought the conclusion to which
the House most come was this, that the lion. Gentleman bad
been grossly imposedupon. When' e had stated that the qua-
lificanon, for admission into the Yeomanry WAN that the party
should he a Protestant and an Otungeman, he must surely feel
that he had been misled. lie had then said that the Yeomanry
oil Ireland lied been ready (he hoped the Hon. Gentleman
would recall his Words) to turn their arms ogainet their Sove.
reign.. Sueh an unfounded assertion against a large body of
men he had never heard before. The authority front which be
derived such information could only be animated by malice,
and must hare iniaehief for its object. Ile lipped the lion.
Gentleman would withdraw his motion, or that the House by
a signal majority, would mark their determination to put down
this attack on the Yeomanry of Ireland.
Mr. BENNET was not disposed to undervalue the services
of the Yeomanry of Ireland, but be thought if the amendment
of his Hon. Friend were adopted, :it would prove a measure of
conciliation, as be was of opinion with his Right lion. Friend,
the Member for NVaterford, that a local force was not that which
was best adapted to the present state of Ireland. lie gave the
motion his cordial support.
Mr. HUME, in reply, disclaimed all malice, or intended
mischief. • In his speech he had applied no epithets to indivi-
duals, though he did apply some, to a body of men, because be
considered them. to be Orangemen. -
After a few words front Mr. Hirrottursort, the Amendment
was negatived, and the Resolution agreed to. •
The Report was then proceeded with.
On the Resolution proposing a grant of 10,8891. for the Royal
Military College at Satallitirst,
Mr. HUME thought the eatablishincnt might be reduced.
He would diemisi the Governor, and of four Cal nains he would
retain but two, and make other changes. He moved as an
Amendment, that the sum of 3,239/. should he deducted
from' the grant. '
Lord PALAIERSTON said, as the eatabl%imient was one
the utility of which Could not be doubted, and he thought
it could hardly be expected such an establishment' should be
maintained for less than between 10 and 11,0001. per annum.
As the Hon Gentleman gave no reason why the Governor
should be dismissed, he ahouid only 'answer' that he was of
opinion he ought to be retained ; and for the Captains, he
was as thoroughly . convinced, that four were necessary, as
the Right Hon. Gentleinan could be that two were sufficient.
Colonel DAVIES condemned the establishment as extra-
vagant, as no fewer than sixty-eight persons were retained
to educate two !Modred and twenty young gentlemen.
Sir A. HOPE defended the Institution, and maintained,
that the duties of the Governor and other Officers weresnxious,
arduous, and indispensable. The Conimissioners of Military
Inquiry recommended none of the reductions which the lion.
Gentleman prop6sed. lie enumerated the yearly reductions
made by the Commissioners of the College, and said that even
this year 1,900/. had been reduced. When the House saw the
Com Missioners thus doing their duty so conscientiously, be
trusted that it would aupport the vote, and confide in their
further exertions.
Mr. G. BENNET said, that when this establishment
should be placed upon a footing of economy, it would be con-
sidered as a public good; until then it was a public nuisance.
s Sir A. HOPE explained. '
'Mr. F. PALMER said, that while the number of pupils
had diminished, the charge for contingencies had doubled.
After a few words from Sir A. Hors, the House divided—
' For the Resolution a - 107
For the Amend nient • 14
Majority - —93
The next Resolution was /9,1501. for the charge for GAT,
risons.
Mr. HUME objected to the expense, as being unnecessary,
many of the appointments` being Sinecures. He moved a re-
duction of 10.,C110/.
Lord PALMERSTON said, that the subject had been so
much diseitseed as to leavessanthing to 'be said on duke), aide
with which the House was unacquainted. These offices were
not sinecures, and they were given to old officers who had 'per-
formed the greatest services to the country. These places
which had no garrisons, of soldiers required persons to take
care of the buildings.
Mra DAVIES said, that it vrOuld be better to given pensions
at once to Officers Who had detierved them, than, to keep up
sinecures for such an object.
Sir A. HOPE contended that it was only a justice to old
General Officers, that these military Governments should be
kept up.
The amendment was withdrawn, and the original resolution
agreed to, as were several other resolutions.
NATIONAL DEBT EDUCTION BI"'
The above Bill was road a second time, and ordered to be
committed to•morow.
ASSESSED TAXES REDUCTION BILL.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that
the House should go into Committee upon the Assessed Tax
Reduction NIL
Air. CURWEN rose, 'according to the notice he had given,
to move an instruction to the Committee to take off the whole
of the House Window Tax from houses under 111. a year. Tide
tax pressed upon one-seventh of the population, and only pro-
duced 01,000/. flit trusted that in 'orifice to this class, the
House would see the propriety of censurring with him. When
the higher classes were relieved to the extent of one and.a half
per cent., it was most unfair that this relief should be withheld.
He eoncluded.by moving the inetruedon aecordingly.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCH EQUER was obliged,
hoivewr painful to his feelings, to oppose this motion. He
thought, however, that the Hon. Gentleman had greatly exag=
gerafed the hardship of this tax.. The fact was, that the law
provided a relief for those who were unable to pay it. If a poor
ttnwentlieforsm Magistratese. and:swore that he was not able to
pay it, he was exempted. The number of houses that
comparatively ll paid was
seustsedof
fworhaicllet Thiess were in England about 1,100,000,
o
toanxly thTriemesotrhefoure was rhunndorepad thousand
pressuresandereasor.
hardship on this tax, and upon the ground of' justice which
the Honourable 'Member liad advanced, he must therefore
oppose the 'notion. While he was addressing the Homo per.

haps it would be better to explain two alterations Le intended
to make in the Bill. As he had not prepared them now, he
should introduce two clauses after the third reading. The first
related to Cottages in Scotland. As the law stood, they were
in to somewhat different situation from the cottages in this
country. Na. there were no parish rites irtScotland, they had
no means of escaping the tax by receiving such aid, and were
compelled to gO before the Minister for that purpose. His in-
tention was, to put them In an equal situation, as nearly as he
could, with the same class in England. For that purpose, he
should submit that a family of t4rea children should form an
exemption. Another -point where he proposed to make altera-
tion was, upon persons employed as warehousemen and shop-
boys. They were at present exempt under the age of four-
teen, and he meant to extend the time to the age of 18.
Mr. Alderman W 001) said that much good had been done
by the removal of the tat upon occasional gardeners; but that
there was another class of men, who stood nearly in the same
iaituation, and were -at the present Moment in great distress for
}want of employment. He alluded to men used as warehouse-
men and porters. The numbers of surcharges were so great,
"and the vexations AO harnimsing,, that these people were all
thrown out of employment. He hoped the Right Honourable
Gentleman would take this into consideration, and relieve the
parties.
Mr. BRIGHT agreed with 'the Hon. Member for Cumber-
land, that it was only just to relieve the poor man .as much as
possible, when taxes were to.he taken off. If the window tax
were thus taken' off;. thire would be ait increased number of
windows, and consequently an increased quantity of glass used.
The tax on glass would therefore rise, though he did not mean
to say in proportion t 6 the loss. Ile should prefer .seeing the
tax reduced upon leather and candles than upon carriages and
horses. called the attention of the Right Hon. Gentleman
to the advantage which would be given to the manufacturer by
taking- off the taxes upon the raw material, and nut those which
were laid on when articles were made.
.The House then divided— •

For the Amendment -
Against it - - - - - 87
Majority • • - —43 .
On our re-admission into the Gallery., ~we found the House.
in a Committee on the Assessed Taxes Repeal Bill; and
The CHANCELLOR- of the EX('Hl•.QUER`explaining'
some alterations which he proposed in. the part relating► to
composition' for the Assessed Taxes, and .also with regard to
the Fax on Warehousemen. _ _

Mr..CURWEN 'complained of that part of the alteration
which went to exempt the Scottish peasantry from the tax, they,
having, in his opinion, infinitely less' claim than the English.
A conversation between' Mr. Ilume, Sir F. Ommanney, and
Mr. Price ensued ; after which, •
Mr. WETHERELL rose to complain of a hardship to which
the Members of the Universities were.subjected in the matter of
their horses. If there were ten Fellows who had a horse a piece,
all of them, as was not unusual, attended by one groom, then
that groom was, by the productive powers of the Act, Multi-
plied into ten grooms—a process which was just as reasonable
as though in one of the establishments where there were 100
who ate and drank, they Should be taxed for 100 cooks and 100
butlers. This tax, too, fell most heavily upon those Whir were
the least able to bear it. If a Curate, residing within the Col.
lege kept a horse, then he had fo,pay the tax, whereas the Un-
der Graduates, who kept the horses without the College, ware
exempted. •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER raid, be
hoped he would not be accused of s Want of politeness to the
two Universities, if he resisted the suggestion made by the (iOn.
and Learned Gentleman. lie had heard pf a college cook and
a College butler, but he had never heard of a University
groom.—(A laugh.)—lle sea, no reason why Gentlemen wh.o
wished to amuse themselves by keeping, horses, should be ex-
emitted from this tax any more than the rest of his Majesty's
subjects.
Mr. CURWEN wished to know whether the Chancellor of
the Exchequer had any objection to place. English cottager' on
the same footing as Scotch Cottagers, that was, to exempt those
who had three children froM the operation of the tax ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he had
no objection to acceed to the wish of. the Hon. Member, but
he feFed the measure would not be productive of all the benefit
anticipated if him (Mr. Cur wen.)
• Mr. CURWEN thanked the Right Hon. Gentleman for gip.
ing way, :Lod begged to assure hint that. it would afford great
relief to a large portion °film ponrer classes.
The House then resumed, and the Report was ordered to be
received to-morrow,

The other Orden of the Day were disposed of, and the House
adjourned at HALF PAST Et.Evr ti.
_ _

THE DISTRESSED GREEKS.

The follouing letter is from a family of Greek
'agitives from Scio, and is one instance among
thousands, of the 'effect of , the Turkish atrocities
in that island. It is for, objects of this nature
that the subscription instituted by the benevolent

Society of Friends has been principally set on
foot

TII.IFB TE, DEC. 26.
" DEAR BuoTtan,—After having visited several of the'
lonian islands, where nobody .would receive us, we are at last
at Trieste, where we have been about a Month, thanks to the
obliging care and compassion which we received from the cap-
tain of the ship in which we sailed. After having escaped from
the knife of the executioner, we find ourselves on the point of
dying, for want, perhaps, of the means of existence. We have,
alai ! no one to recommend ourselves to; and although we are
unwilling to wt,und put feelings, knowing your sensibility,
by informing you of our situation, particularly its you have
been at the expense of the Gyninese of Seio to prosecute your
studies in France, and that you may find yourself in the same
unfortunate situation with ourselves; yet we have recourse to
your brotherly love, and beg you to join yourself to your unfor-
tunate' sister, and to try to send ,us some relief. Out !of the
numerous family of Gennades, our•neighbours, the mother only
has been, saved, six of her children are slaves.—Alexandre,
Marie, Angelique, George, Lucy, and Nicolas. Stephen is
happily here with his mothers ,he desires me to say, that if you
know of any one who will buy his brothers and sisters, he will
feel himself bound to repay the amount.
, " LOL/bA. EItkINA, & NICOLAS FOURMAItiAIKY."