The Sun.
London, England, 1841-03-03 00:00:00

ir g out the abuses of the system which was now the
jest of dischtssims.-
- Mr. GIL LON contended that the Hoe. Member (Mr.
Wallace), in endeavouring to remedy the abuses of the
Sheriff system in Scotland, had both justice and right
reason on his side, yet he (Mr. Gillon) feared from the
tribunal to-which he had to appeal that he had little hope
nf wean, because he always found a wonderful coinci-
dence between the two great parties in supporting sine-
nHalodnu.
tieFniiennndanwnhoounstpoofkethlaatsti,nahreeasd referred rsraeid:oy,
the abuse of the increase in the Judges' salaries which had
taken place last year, and he (Mr. Gillon) thought that
scourareeLaddllitiios
ought to be imposed on them, thereby the country could be
relieved of those thirty sinecure places which had been
mentioned. There was a wonderful similarity of senti- •
ment between the two leading parties in the House, on
matters such as the present, and that similarity of sen-
timent would continue as long as patronage and profit t
could he held out by them to their adherents.—( Hear.)
He did not wonder at the cheers from the other side of the
House. The party on that side of the House were no
doubt looking to a speedy return to office, aqd to the abi-
lity of bestowing their patronage on some cf the Tory
lawyers of Edinburgh. He (Mr. Gillen) understood his
Hon. Friend to have stated that at Leith or Edinburgh no
man presenting himself to the electors had a chance of be-
coming their representative unless he was the subservient
tool of the clique who upheld the patronage system. The
Noble Lord had said it was the opinion and wish of the
profession that the Judges should receive large salaries ;
but such was not the opinion of the country. There wa s
a growing opinion in Scotland that the office of Sheriff
Priecipsl was a sinecure, and that the more speedily it
was abolished the better. A return moved for by an Hon.
Member showed the number of appeals from Sheriffs
Substitute to Sheriffs Principal. These were consider-
able in amount; but, on the other hand, the number of
reversals was small, and the duty might easily
have been performed by the Lords Ordinary.
He could not help thinking it somewhat ano-
malous that the Lord Advocate of a Libe-
ral Administration should be greeted with such loud cheers
by the Tories opposite ; and he (Mr. Gillen) thought this
was prima facie ev dence against his case. The Learned
Lord, is his reply, had stated nothing to show what
other duties were performed by these sinecure officers.
He knew there was a feeling in Scotland that those offices
were sinecures, and that the mode of appointment was de-
grading, and such was his opinion ; and he should there-
fore vote with his lion. Friend.
Sir G. CLERK thought there wan nothing in the
statementoalsf s
;hoei. H
Tofnt eMceombuide r for
Greenock v
ethe
Hon.
Memberthat rembe;
for Kilkenny, the system of Sheriffs' Courts in Scotland
was inadequate for the demands of justice, and that this
was the opinion of a large portion of the people. But he
(Sir G. Clerk) believed that every person scqu.i ited
with Scotland was prepared to give a tliteet
denial to that statement, and to state, on the contrary,
that it worked well, and gave general satisfaction. And
on his own behalf, and from his own experience, he was
enabled to say that the greate t benefit was derived to
Scotland from the Sheriffs' Courts of that ro.intry.— -
(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Kilkenny had
said that he had no reverence for anything established one
hundred years age. He (Sir G. Cleric) believed the
golden age of the Hon. Member did not extend farther
backward than 1792.—(Laughter.) He agreed ie every •
word thet fell from the Learned Lord-Advocate as to the
advantages which resulted from the Sheriffs coming
into contact with their brethren of the law in the Su-
perior Courts. B.fo e the Act was passed which re-
quired the Sheriffs to be lawyers, and to reticle in Edin-
burgh four mouths of the year, tine Sheriffs were country
gentlemen totally ignorant of law, and their administra-
tion gave continual dissatisfaction. The Right Hon.
Gentleman complained of the terms in which the Hon.
Gentleman had put his motion on the papers of tie
House, witch he well knew would circulate throughout
Scotland, and create a prejudice against the administra-
tion of justice in that country, and lower the position
of the Judges in the estimation of the public.
Mr. H. STEUART could not approve of the indis-
criminate censure which his Hon Friend, the introducer
of the motion, had healed cn the Judges who presided in
the Scottish Courts; although he could not but think
with him that the number of Judges might be conveniently
diminished. While, therefore, he would feel it his duty
to vote for the motion of his Her. Friend, he repudiated
the I,ersonal attacks he bad made; and though he thought
that much in the present system was good, he thought
that it might in theory be susceptible of very considerable -
improvement.
that, so far ashe had
of
been
jus
tableioo into
form
an
impressionopinion
sEioEn iasaid
en
local administration
was that the present system was
satisfactory,
Sir
lrsni .
Scotland,
although it might be capable of partial im-
provements. He cud not, therefore, ace the necessity for
a Committee of Inquiry lap the subject ; and he was of
opinion that such inquiries might tend to shake the
authority of the Judges, which 'could certainty be a most
str'ous evil. lie thought that the lion. and Learned
Gentleman the Lord Advocate had adduced the most con-
vincing reasons why they should not accede t the mo-
tion, and why they should not seek to change the
present law in respect to the administration of
justice. The Honourable and Learned Member must
however, have felt himself strangely placed while putting
forward his rri ; for, on his left, he might hive seen
the Hon. Gentleman ( Mr. Fox Maale), the author cf the
County Courts' Fill, and on his right the Noble Lord.
the author cf the Registration Bill. Ile' (Sir R. Peel)
wished the H, n. and Learned Gentleman would use the
same force of argument be hail that evening display el in
opposition to those me tsures.—( Laug'itar. )
Mr. F. M A ULE felt bound to object to the motion,
from the very woroing of the notice. It had now gone
forward to the public of Scotland, and were he now to
conseut to t'le appointment of the Committee he would to
giving sornew.couLteaance to 'the ch .rgcs it contained.
The appcietmeit ref a Committee would carry with it a
suspicion that there was something wrong. If there was
anything glaringly wrong it must naturally come glaringly
before the public, and then it would he the bounden duty
of the Executive to come forward with a remedy. Let the
Hon. Member bring forward his project in the shape of a
Bit', and they would know what they had to meet, and let
the question be settled. The present plan cf the Hoe.
Gentleman was eminently calculated to injure the adminis-
tration cf the law in Scotland.

Mr. WA LI, ACE replied. He had des;geedly worded
his motion as it stood, because every word it contained was
true.—( Oh, oh.) It was ; he adhered to every word of it.
There was in Scotland a universal desire for an alteration
in the system. With regard to appeals, the two Judges
for Peebles and Bute had only two and a half appeals be-
tween them.—( A laugh.) The Right Hon. Gentleman
would:not give him a Committee, because he knew that the
effect would be to pull down the whole of the mischief. If
instead of these thirty useless men, they had twenty-four
Judges, whose duties were properly regulated, the busi-
ness would be far more efficiently performed. It would
depend upon the House whether the counsel which had
been tendered would be useful. Ile proposed to alter the
terms of his motion, and to suggest it to the House in the
follow kg form:—" Committee to inquire into the nature
and extent of the duties still incumbent on the office of
Sheriff- Principal, or Chief Stipendiary Judge for each
county in Scotland ; and also to inquire into the nature
and effects of the system under which the above class of
stipendiary Judges nominate and appoint stipendiary Ds-
puty Judges."
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House
divided, when there appeared—
Ayes 37
Noes

Majority against the motion — 49
On our re-admission to the gallery, we found Mr.
WALLACE on his legs stating that he should not press
his other resolutions atter the decision of the House.
The resolutions were then withdrawn.
MAYNOOTH COLLEGE.
Mr. COLQUHOUN then rose for the purpose of
moving for leave to bring in a Bill to alter and amend
the Acts of the Irish Parliament relating to the College
of Maynooth, the 35th of Gco. 111. cap. '2O, and the
40th of Geo. 111. cap. 85. He approached the question,
of which he had given notice, with great anxiety and re-
luctance, not because he thought the subject was one un-
deserving the consideration of Parliament, but because it
had been made the theatre of strong religious feeling, and
because it would be thought by some persons on the other
side of the House that it was intended to attack
their religious principles. He trusted that he should be
enabled so to put it to the House as to divest it of suchi!
character, and that, the discussion of it might be appr shed
ho
without any reliaious asperities. He must thatcotfestshe
had never yet been able to give a vote against becauseg
grant
hnot
to the College of Maynooth, and
found that the grant to the Coflolregthe
Acts of
felt' a long series of years under veryot
become
important
ihardeareenn continued
the House
Parliament, and therefore it would n
sweeriroeuts
fe os rui seihd c;
to withdraw a grant so constitutedsivoitroutst
salon, and secondly he
iltouse to interfere without
thought I
nature as not to authorise the
first Act, to which be
first a'tering those Acts. 13Y ow
alluded, and ten ecclesiastics. By
the College were appinted,
twenty-ono trust2esot
eleven of whom were
visitors laymen,o:bo o f the College were consti_
the to and Act thehighest functionaries of the
and the
tilted, among' whom were Ireland and the Judges ;
realm, the Chancellor
represented the Sovereign in that
Len] Lieutenaetotiv
.„,, eited to receive the Report, to receive
to approve of the rules, and to ep
emintry,
It muq, therefore, be obvious' -to-
and record wasther.deuolets.,
' t the Presil'arliament bad given direct sanction to tke
poll
elooth, and therefore when they Were asked
every one that
Coll, be °I. 8)
year atter Year to vote against that grant to the College, he
felt bound to say, finding those Acts sanctioned the College,
that the first s' el) to be taken was to titer and amend the
Acts, in order t, remove the sanction which had been
given. Ile wished it to be understood distinctly that when
he spoke of the alteration, ho did not mean any ultcratien
depriving the Coliege cf Maynooth of any private grants.
He spoke only of the sanction given by the Act to the
Coliege of Ma) naotb, and he would put it to those who
chsag.te el with the grants to the College whether the al-
teratt in to which he hal alluded ought not first to take
pla 'e, Ile had no doubt that cn the other side it would
be said, what reason was there for such alteration ? He
found those reasons in the Acts cf Parliament themselves.
These Acts evidently contemplated two things, and such
was the intention of Mr. Pitt, They contemplated a suf-
fie eat control on the part of the laity ovir clic clergy,
and they contemplated a control also en the part of the
Go 'ertirr elf. Now he thought, that be should be _
to
sad .fy the Howe that while that control. was professed, it
was not possessed. By the first Act it was provided that
the majority of the trustee: shotild be laymen; there were
then tan ecclesiastics, and four Protestants and seven Re-
man Catholic layman. The trustees stood, therefore, as
eleven to ten under that Act. lho trustees so constituted
had in that College a most tefficient control. They ap-
pointed the Professors, and drew up the rules. But, un-
littunaiely, a change was made by the next Act, the Act
o' 1800, which very much frust, a ed the views of Mr.
Pitt aed the Roman Catholic laymen. If any one would
turn to slit Act they would find a most material altera-
tion. The trustees were divided into two parties.
The first ate visitors, and the other trustees.

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