The Sun.
London, England, 1841-03-09 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON', TUESDAY, MARCH 9,18 c.

first was at Waltham Abbey, to afford an increased
means for the making of gunpowdcr. An expe.ise hid
been incur red of 11,0001. for m ichiacry. At Birming-
ham, from whence the army was supplied w:th new
muskets, they were obliged to have a place in which
the arms could be collected, which has cost 5,030/.
—( Hear, hear.) In consequence of a dreadful storm,
which had occasioned coaideratile damage to the sea-
line at Portsmouth, 6,9001. was required for its re-
pair. At Halifax an additional expenditure of 4,8001.
had become necessary. On the Cape frontier an ex-
penditure of 2,8701., and at Gibraltar the l trge sum of
22,0001. would be required. The works at Gibraltar on
the sea lice had long hem complained of as out of re-
pair. It had been frequently patched up, but the ap-
plicati en of steam navigation had created so great an
alteration as to render it the duty of the Government
to provide especially for the safety of places situated
like Gibraltar. It was necessary to have a good sca
line. Sir John Jones, who had erected the
works in the Netherlands, at the close of the
I ist war, bad gone out to Gibraltar for the pur-
pose of making plans and estimates of the works
required. He had not yet returned any estimate,
but he had sent home a rough draft, which he thought
justified the Government in asking 20,000/. for carrying
on the works during the present year. Tne next item
of increase was an item of 8,8571 for barracks in the
central districts. In the northern district, for 18 years
troops had been lodged in temporary barracks. Two years
ago he thought it his duty to go down and examine the
barracks ; he found that the troops were very badly
accommodated. In the first instance the barracks had
been very comfortable, but at Bolton, Bury, and other
places, they were now far otherwise. He thought it
was but justice to the troops to erect barracks in which
they would be comfortable. Again, an increase of
10,000/. had become necessary for the erection of bar-
racks at Brecon. They all knew the circumstances
which had occurred in South Wales last year. The
troops there had at first been stationed at public-
houses, which he considered highly objectionable. They
were afterwards placed in buildings, fitted up for that
purpose ; and if it should be considered necessary to
keep troops in South Wales, they should erect
barracks for their accommodation at Brecon. There
was an increase of 10,000/. for the erection of
fortified barracks at a station the name of which we
could not catch, and where at present tha troops were
residing in old hulks. On the Gth vote there was an
incresse of 5,414/. On the 7th vote, items for military
service, there was a great increase. This was a moss
important vote, and the increase arose in a great de
gree from the giving percussion arms to the troops. It
was a subject which had engaged the attention of
the Board of Ordnance for many years. I t was well
known that under the old system of locks a great num-
ber of muskets missed fire. It was well known that the
British soldier always did good work with his musket,
but he thought it was but due, to him to put as good
arms into his hand as could be procured. The increase
under this head was 130,000/. When he first became
Master-General of the Ordnance his attention had been
directed to the best means of effecting the change
from the flint to the percussion. He had watched the
operation of the flint, and he had seen regularly that one-
third of the arms missed fire. He felt the necessity of re-
sorting to some change, more especially when the other
European powers were doing the same. He had had pat-
tern locks made, and submitted them to the inspection of
a Committee appointed by Lord Hill, of which the
Store-keeper of the Ordnance was a member. He had
had patterns of locks for muskets, carbines, and rifled,
and had had arms thus fitted up sent out to the regi-
ments in Canada, India, and Ireland, and he requested
Lord Hill to direct the commanders of those regiments
to report thereon. Some sixty or seventy regiments
had been supplied, and he would read extracts from
some of the Reports. Colonel Cathcart, of the King's
Dragoons, said that they were better calculated for
service than any arms he had ever seen. The Right
Hon. and Gallant Officer then proceeded to read
several other returns, all of which highly approved of
the adoption of the percussion arms. With these
returns before him he was sure the House would
agree with him that the Government had
nothing to do but to go on manufacturing these arms,
because, if anything should occur which would render
it necessary to send out an army to any part of the
world, the superiority of the percussion locks would
become apparent. He recollected an instance of a re-
view at Dublin, where the men had the common locks
to their guns, and in consequence of a shower of rain
coming on, not one of their guns would go off. There
was an addition of 15,000/. for stores, and there was
also an addition of 10,000/. for the purchase of military
stores. In the Commissariat Department there was
36,0001. less this year than last ; the reason of that
was, that the Ordnance Department had been taken
by the Treasury. Altogether there would be more ex-
panded this year than last, by 156,915/. He trusted
the statement he hal made would he satisfactory to the
House, and he would now put it in the hands of the
Chairman, for the adoption of the Committee.
Upon the vote for 119,631/., for defraying the sala-
ries of the Civil Establishment for the office of Ordi-
nance at Woolwich, and on foreign stations being put,
Mr. HUME observed that as the House seemed
determined to keep up a large naval and military force,
it was absolutely necessary to have it efficient, and it
anything was more important than another it was that
the men forming that force should have the best pos-
sible arms. It was no economy to have bad ones. In
the vete now before the House there was no increase
from the last year, and he therefore had no objection
to it ; he objected, however, to the enormous amount of
stores kept constantly on hand.
The vote was then agreed to.
A. vote of 315,861/. for defraying the expenses of the
Royal Artillery and Horse Artillery was agreed to.
A vote of 37,810/. was also agreed to to defray the
salaries of Barrack-Masters in the United Kiagdom and
on foreign stations.

The next vote was 525,021/. for defraying the charge
of Ordnance works and repairs.
In answer to a question from Sir A. DALRYMPLE,
Sir H. VIVIAN said that the Government did
not propose to erect any other barracks in South gabs
unless it was found to be absolutely necessary.
Mr. HODGES wished to ask the Right Hon. and
Gallant Officer whether he considered the barracks at
Hythe were necessary to be kept up ?
Sir H. VIVIAN observed that he was preparod to
go and throw away tho-e barracks, selling them fur
little or nothing, when, perhaps, in a short time, he
should be forced to purchase them at a great expanse.
Mr. HUME considered this a very heavy vote, and
be was sorry to see the Gallant Officer was adopting a
course that had been adopted a few years ago, when a
disturbance took place in Lancashire, namely, that of
erecting barracks wl:em cmeutes took place. He
thought the Government would do well to consider

whether, ingte ►d of studding the country over ;itit
barracks, they could not adopt some other means of

........ ...
putting an end to the discontents that existed in.. ti c
countr. If they would allow the people to manaec
their own affairs, they would not be called upon to liy
out large sums in the erection of barracks.

S:r H VIVIAN denied that the Government had
erected I wracks where the cmcutes had taken place.
Mr. lIU ill E hoped that the sums received for show-
ing the different parts of the 'rower would be applied to
coding to the collection there, and also to defray the
expense of the new bull ling. He also desired that
these collections should be made admis'ible, partly et
least, to those who coul3 not pay. Sixpence was a
small sum compared with the payments which were
formerly taken, but there were numbers of persons who
could not afford even sixpence, aid who were therefore
entirely excluded from these collections. He thought
that ono day in the week might be sot apart for the
benefit of such persons. He mentioned the following to
show the aivant tge which even the revenue derived
from the reducing of the rate of admission. During
twelve months, when the demand was 24., 10,300 per-
sons visitel the armoury, producing a revenue of 1,0301.
When it was reduced to'one shiding, there were 41,000,
producing. a revenue of 2,0401. WI en the fee was Gd.,
80,000 were admitted, producing a revenue of 0,0001.
In the year ending Feb. 1, 1841, 91,897 were admitted
on the same terms, producing a revenue of 2,2971.
After a few words from Colonel Thomas, Mr. P.
Howard, Sir Hussey Vivian, and Colonel Anson, with
respect to the erection of barracks, the vote was
agreed to.

ORDNANCE SURVEY.
On the motion that a sum, not exceeding 186,259/.,
be applied for the expense of the Ordnance survey,
Sir A. DALRYIIPLE said that, in voting money
for the proposed survey, the House should see that the
object to be carried out was within the powers of the
officers who were to be employ ea. He thought that it
should not be thrown entirely upon the military depart. merit. The Honourable Member was also understood
to elude to the great expense which would attend tliis
survey.
Sir HUSSEY VIVIAN said he thought his Hon.
,Friendm atshlabourings
eudn dz.
not
a largeri tike ot
than
a thisnthat of u
previous year ; and the proposed survey on the scale of
s Lty.
six inches to the mile would be carried on in the same
manner as the old survey of one inch. He could assure
the Gallant. Gentleman that the geological survey was
not carried on by the Ordnance officers—it was entirely
under the management of M. Delabeche—though he
was sometimes assi,tad by the Ordnance engineers.
The vote was then agreed to.
The next vote proposed was the sum of 328,000/.
expense of Ordnance stores,
Mr. HIJME wished to ask the Gallant General
sent out to Syria.
if he could tell him what amount of stores had been
Sir H. VIVIAN could not say off hand what the
amount was ; he could tell his Hon. Friend, however,
muskets sent.
0
that there were 15,00

The vote was agreed to, as were
5,5791 for the purchasing of land at Kingston,
C inada.
116,5291. for defraying the expensa of surerinua-
Cons, half-pay, and pensions of the Ordnance depart-
ment,

And 248..5951. for the Commissariat supplies to the
S2:lli, department.
The House then resumed—the Report to be received
on Wednesday.
Tue Report of the Turnpike Act Continuance
Bill was braught up, and the Bail ordered to en-
grossed.
The Turnpike Act Continuanec. (Ireland) Bill went
through Committee:,_

POOR-LAWS.
Mr. F. MAULE moved that the House reso've
itself into Committee on the Poor-law Amendment all.
Mr. 'l'. PARKER did not know what sympathy for
the poor would be shown in that House, but he would
certainly continue his opposition to it when it. was pro-
posed to proce.id with it. As the present was merely a
profurnuz proceeding, he would not then detain the

Mr. F. MAULE would only assure the Hon. Gen-
tleman that her Majesty's Ministers felt quite as much,
and probably more, sympathy for t'ee poor than many
who made much noise upon the subject.
Captain PECHELL wished to know whether he
had correctly understood the Noble Lord—were all
local acts to be left untouched, and were Gilbert Cor-
porafons to be exempted from the operation of the Bill ?
Mr. F. MAULE said his motion was merely a pro
forma one. When the Bill was printed with the
amendments, Hon. Gentlemen would see them.
Colonel SIBTHORP said he did not think his
Hon. Friend (Mr. T. Parker) had been answered in
the most courteous manner by the Hon. Under-Secre-
tary ; and, as for his boast, there was a very true, af-
t hough a very trite saying—it was, " The proof of the
pudding is in the eating of it."--(A laugh.) Now, he
thought the acts of the Ministry had never given any
proof of sympathy for the poor. They bad shown an
aretllyen ices, and, although they had
years' continuance now, rather
comeot love v
deof:or
t o their
five
than give up their dearly-loved places, they would
come to two, or even one•—they would descend to any
trick in order to insere them. If no other Member
took the sense of the House upon the Bill on a future
occasion, he would do so himself.
Mr. HINDLEY earnestly pressed upon the Go-
vernment to adopt the suggestion of the Hon. Member
for Finsbury, and divide the Bill into two.
The House then went into Committee—Mr. BERNAL
in the Chair.
Captain PECHELL again inquired whether the
Gilbert Incorporations were exempted from the opera-
tion of the Bill.
Mr. F. MAULE—No.
Mr. T. DUNCOM BE would warn the House
against the insidious provisions of the Bill. Local Acts
were not to be touched, but the Commissioners had no-
thing to do but join a parish having a local Act to another
which had not one, and then their board of guardians
immediately ruled the union. In that way they had
joined Kensington and Chelsea—the utmost confusion
had been the result, and they had been compelled, in
order to remedy the evil, to bring in a bill of divorce be-
tween the parishes—(A laugh)—for no other power
than Parliament could effect a separation, a union beel-
ine once been formed by the Poor-law Commissioners.
He did not see the Noble Lord the Secretary of State
in his place who could give the required explanation,
and therefore he moved that the Chairman report pro-
gress and ask leave to sit again.
Mr. FOX MAULE said the Hon. .Gentleman had
refused to concede what he bad never known to be re-
fused in that House, namely, to go into Committee pro
forma, for the purpose of amending the Bill. He had
never heard such a step refused to any Hon. Member
much less to the Leader of the House. His Noble
Friend had in the early part of the evening detailed the
amendments he proposed to make, but whether the
Honourable Member heard him or not he really did not
know—he was taking no step in the Bill, but was
merely asking to place before the House in more clear
and intelligible terms the alterations he proposed to
make.
Mr. DUNCOMBE said he had been charged with
taking an unusual and uncourteous step in objecting to
the alterations about to be made, but he must say it
was much more unusual and uncourteous, when he asked
the Hon. Gentleman with reference to certain amend-
ments which it was proposed to make, to be toll " you
will see that when the Bill is printed."—(Tory cheers.)
If I,e had been treated in that manner by any Secretary
of State even of the high departments, much less of the
lower—(A laugh)—he would say that in any other
place it was a somewhat impertinent answer.—(Hear,
hear, and cries of " Order.") The Noble Lord had
been much more courteous to the House than his sub-
altern, because he had condescended to explain when
asked ; but he considered the answer he bad received

from the Hon. Under-Secretary both uncourteous and
unusual.

Mr. FOX MAULE said his answer had certainly
been given in an unusual and irregular manner from his
seat, as one friend wouNI give to another on the same
side of the House.—(l ear, hear.) He trusted, how.
ever, the House would not consent to the unprecedented
motion of the Hon. Gentleman.

Lord JOHN RUSF,ELL said it was a very frequent
1 course to propose amendment?, in order that the 13111
might
go into Committee in tho state in which the Go-
vernment wished it to appear. That proposition had
been generally agree4l to. Now, because he (Lord John
Russell) had done more than was usual—bccauso he
had stated the nature of the amendments he intended
to propose, the H.on. Member asked for more, and
wished to have every item and iota stated.
Mr. DUNCOM:BE hoped the N.)ble Lord would
not misrepresent hi m, he had merely asked one question.
Mr. BERNAL said an observation had escaped
the Hon. Member, which he was sure was not meant in
the sense in which fit was taken, and which he thought
the Hon. Member aught to explain.
_ _

Mr. DUNCONEBE said that he had qualified his
observation, by adding if it had been made in another

place.
Colonel WOO]) thought there had been a good
deal of warmth about nothing at all. He understood
__ .

the word " impertinent" had escaped the floZCi;;;;,
and that requ'red some explanation.
Mr. DUNCO MBE said after the explanation of the
Hon. Secretary he, of course, withdrew the obJer-
vation.

After a few words from Mr. JOHN JONES, the
Bi!1 went through a. Committee pro form, and was or-
dered to be printed with the amendment,.
COPYRIGHT OF DESIGNS.
Mr. EMMERSON TENNENT, in moving the
Order of the Day for going into Committee on the
Copyright of Desil.r is Bill, proposed that it be an in-
struction to the Gommittee to consider all the Acts
connected with the copyright of articles of manufac-
ture, fur the purpose of combining them in one Bill.
Mr. SHIM. said he had sugge'ited that when an
A. t of Parliament r as about to be brought in effecting
alterations in one branch of copyright, that it wou!d be
much wiser, there b.cing no less than five Acts on that
subject, to include teem all in one general Act. There
we!e copyrights upon designs on metal, on glass, and
other articles, and he thought it would be much more
judicious to have the whole subject considered by the
Committee.

Tt,e House then went: into Committee, proforma.
Mr. I-lINDLEY wiAlled to know whether the Bill
would come into operation after the dat,: of registration
or that of publ•cation.

Mr. E.tENNENT—After the date of registration.
After a short emrversation between Mr. Hindley,
Mr. Hume, and Mr. shed, the Bill was ordered to be
committed on We,.nesday, the 17.11 instant, and Cie
House resumed.

LEASE AND RELEASE BILL.
Mr. EWA RT }sought up the Report on the Lease
and Release B P, which was ordered to be read a third

CRIMINAL LAW.

Lord J. RUSSELL said that he rose to bring in a
Bill for the Atrene,;metit of the Criminal Law, The
Hon. and Learned Gentleman whom he saw opposite
(Mr. F. Kelly) had introducei a Bill in the last Ses.
sion of Parliament ern that important subject. It was
for the House to consider whether they could now go
further than the extent they had hitherto gone in the
initlation of capital
punishment, and, if so, to what ex-
tent. Tne Hon. and Learne 1 Gentleman stated last year
that it was his opinion the capital punishment might be
abolished altogether. but that was not the measure
which he (Mr. P. Kelly) now proposed to the House,
but one which would abolish capital punishment for all
offences, with the exception of treason and murder.
These were the principles on which the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman proceeded very clearly and dis-
tinctly. He (Lord John Russell) was not persuaded
that it was expedient to abolish capital punishment
altogether, because he thought it was at times nem-
sary. But, at the same time, public opinion with re-
spect to this subject must be looked to,
and they must
see whether the changes already made in the criminal
law operated well, and wisether public opinion would go
along with them in maireaieing the proposed charges in
the law ; because, in a country where the decision on
that question was by trial by Jury—licre the persons
who should ultimately decide whether the life of a
w
human being should be taken away or not—
are persons selectrA from the general body
of the country—it must depend very much
on the country whether or not capital punish-
ment should be abolished.—(Hear, hear.) Because
if it was the general opinion, however erroneous, that
capit.d punishment should be inflicted for certain of-
fences, although it might be said that punishment was
excessive— although it might be said that there was
nothing in the offence itself which required that extreme
and irrevocable punishment, yet so far as the prevention of
crime, the great ohjoa of the criminal law, was con-
cerned, if the opinions of the country was in favour of the
infliction of that punish meat, it woull tend to prevent that
crimi ; for instance, not a great m
for the crime of sheep-stealing,
years ago, on a
certain circuit, a Judge of this country, after the ver-
dict of the; Jury, condemned fourteen persons to death
and all those
fourteen persons were banged. The punishment
at the time was thought an extreme one, but the Judge
thought it his duty to inflict it, and the Jury thought it
their duty to find 1130 persqe guilty ; and with regard

to the crime of sheep stealing, it was effective for a
certain time in the prevention of that crime. But if
the opinion in that respect was changed, though the law
declared that certain crimes should be visited with
death, yet if there was such a repugnance on the part of
jurors, that although the indictments might be found
by the Grand Jury, although the evidence be-
fore the Petty Jury might be convincing to
the mind of any reasonable man, still, if Id e repug-
nance to inflict capital punishment might be so great
in the minds of the Jury that they would find a verdict
of not guilty, in spite of the evidence before both the
Grand Jury and the Petty Jury, then the Legislature
would, in that respect, not attain their object. Crime
would not be prevented, because a person who would he
likely to commit a crime would have a temptation to
commit it. He would not have the punishment of
death before his eyes ; because, whatever the declare.
lions of the statute law might be, those persons would
look to what the law was in operation—what it was by
the verdict of a Jury and the sentence of the Judge,
and likewise by the recommendation of the Judge to
the Crown respecting the sentence—those persons, see-
ing that one was se'doin executed for such offences,
would not be deterred from the commission of them by
that law. Omitting all the questions which were raised by
runny persons in this country, and the opinions which
probably the lion. and Learned Gentleman himself
entertained as to the lawfulness of executing the pu-
nishment of death in any case—looking to that which
he (Lord J. Russell) said was the object of society—to
prevent crime—it was a question to consider how far the
criminal law as at present constituted effected that oh-
j ct. They had made very great alterations in the
criminal law—they bad very much reduced the num-
ber of offences for which persons were by law punishable
with death, and with respect to certain offences there
was on the statute book the infliction of that pen ilty
commanded, but which was not in practice. The Hon. and
Learned Gentleman opposite had taken all these ques-
tions together, and had proposed them in one Bill. He
(Lord J. Russell) did not feel that they ought to look
to the abolition of the punishment of death altogether.
The Hon. and Learned Gentlemen opposite ought to
have proposed a different course to the House. He
(Lord J. Russell) would propose a course considering
offences separately, with the exception of a certain
number ; in regard of which no doubt existed in the mind
of any person. The Legislature had abolished the punish-
ment of death with regard to some verygreat offences—
with respect to forgery, &c. The Bill of the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman, in the first place, took cognizance
of crimes of that sort. "With respect to embezzlement
by the servants of the Bank of England, and bills of
the South Sea Company, stamped duties, &c., there
Was no doubt whatever that in such cases they ought not
to leave on the statute•book the announcement of the pu-
nishment of death. That announcement also ought, he
thought, to be removed in the case of persons return-
ing from transportation to St. Helena. He therefore
brought in his present Bill, which he conceived the Le-
gislature could have no hesitation in passing into a law.
There was another subject on which he (Lord John
Russell) had stated a difference of opinion last year, and
respecting which he went to the extent of saying, that
they ought not to grant the total abolition which the
Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Kelly) desired. It was with
respect to the offence of destroying or burning ships in
the Queen's dock-yards. He (Lord John Russell)
conceived, with respect to that offence, that if it was
committed with a view of destroyisg ships of the navy,
or of destroying the whole naval stores of the country
in the dock-yards belonging to the Crown, it was an
offence of a treasonable nature—that it was an offence
which, although it might not be really committed, yet
Tel when it was attempted with such intent to
cripple and destroy the naval forces of this country,
and prevent her Majesty from using the forces of the
Crown against aggressions made by foreign enemies,
was of so serious a nature, partaking so much of the
character of treason, that they ought not to take away
from it the severest punishment. At the same time, it
appeared to him that the Act was drawn up in such a
manner as to involve malicious—and, it might be,
and wilful intentions, but yet without destroying of
naval stores, with others which were not undertaken
with a treasonable purpose, or with a view to cripple
the naval resources of the country. He proposed,
therefore, an amendment of the Act in this respect,
and to endeavour to confine the punishment as
much as possible to the greater offence.—(Hear,
hear.) There was next an offence which cer-
tainly was one on which the greatest doubt and diffi-
culty had been entertained, and on which the Govern-;'
meat had come to a decision with very considerable
difficulty. He alluded to the offence of rape. With
regard to that offence, he (Lord John Russell) felt no
doubt in saying, that when that offence was an aggra-
vated offence, that when it was accompanied by circum•
stances which showed it to be an offence of violence with
aggravation, it was an offence which ought to be
punished with the most extreme punishment which
coal I be inflicted. But when they considered this
offence as it was brought before the Courts
of justice in this country, where great doubts and diffi-
culties arose, when they considered that those charged
with this offence were generally charged upon the evi-
dence of one person, and, that not a person against
whose evidence, as in the case of robbery or attempt to
murder, no suspicion could arise ; but that they were
persons who were, to a certain degree, subject to the
doubt and suspicion that they were endeavouring to
clear their own character by bringing a serious charge
against another.person—when they considered that these
doubts much affected the minds of Juries—that
questions of that sort that were brought before Juries
were sifted, of course, and that very often different
statements were made of circumstances statel in evi-
dence, and with regard to proofs of the life of both
parties, and of circumstances that had happened imme-
diately before—when all these circumstances were
weighed together, if they considered the repugnance
there was to give a verdict, which might end in taking
away the life ; and the general impression there was
that nothing but the most certain evidence ought
to induce Juries to bring in a verdict of guilty
on a capital charge—they might well conceive
that verdicts of acquittal were often pronounced
upon persons who had committed the offeace, but
still against whom there was not the certain evidence
which would induce Juries to bring in a edict that
might end in the termination of the life of the
prisoner. These considerations had no doubt very
much affected tae minds of Juries, and he (Lord J. Rus-
sell) could show by returns that they had been very
powerful in producing verdicts of acquittal. NiW, in
the administration of our criminal laws, they must con-
sider that the Judges had the opportunity of observing in
their circuits the impression they produced, Erst upon the
gentlemen who formed the Grand Juries, next upon
the class of persons who formed the petty Juries, next
upon the various classes of barristers, officers of the
Courts cf Justice, and indifferent persons with whom
they came in contact. Therefore the opinion of the
Judges in any case, not in one case only, but generally
in cases regarding the infliction of any punishment, was
entitled to the greatest weight. He (Lord J. Russell)
had been unwilling to state any decision of the C.x)
vernmsnt on this subject, because he had been anxious
to see if the views, first, of individual judges, and after
wards of more, should be corroborated by subsequent ex-
perience. He would state what the result of that fur-
ther experiment was. When lie had the honour of
being Secretary of State for the Home
Department, a case of rape occurred, in which
thrce parsons had been concerned, and therefore one
which was generally considered as an aggravating case,
and one in which the punishment of desth might have
been inflicted. The Judge before whom that case was
brought, informed him (Lord John Russell) that if be
could not make any objection as Secretary of State,
he should be prepared as the Judge to recommend
that life should be spared. Struck by that opi-
nion, and knowing the intelligence, ability, and
!earning of the Judge, and not being averse
himself, whenever he possessed the ability, and
thought it safe, for the administrators of the law,
to spare life—( Hear, hear)—he (Lord John Russel')
stated, that if such a recommendation came, he should at
once recommend the Crown to adopt it. The recom-
mendation was made and life was spared. 'Other cases
had since occurred, and it had been found that the
Judges generally agreed in the opinion he bad just men-
tioned, and that they thought, with regard to cases in
which conviction was obtained for rape, that the
capital sentence ought not to be executed. In stating
what had been the result, he stated that what, with.
out saying that they could deduce inferences from it,
they could entirely defend, was still of considerable
weight. The general result had been that when there
had been executions one year the proportion of convic-
tions was less the next year. There was certainly a feel-
ing against the execution of capital sentences, and if
these returns were to be relied on, which he would not
say, and they were to be taken altogether, it
would he found they entirely concurred. In the
year 1834 there were fifty-Eve persons acquitted, and
eight convicted of capital crimes. Four of the eight
were executed, and four transpbrted for life, the pro-
portion convicted being one in eight. In the next year,
1835, fifty-two were acquitted and only four convicted,
and in all these cases the sentence was commuted.
The next year, 1836, forty-six were acquitted and nine
convicted, that was to say one in six ; but in that
year one person was executed. In the next year,
1837, sixty-seven were acquitted and six convicted,
the proportion of those convicted being one
in twelve ; but all those convicted were trans-
ported for life, and there was no execution,
In the next year, 1838, thirty-two were acquitted, and
seven convicted, being a proportion of those convicted
of 1 in 51 for the year immediately following that in
which all were transported for life. In 1839, sixty
were acquitted, and seventeen convicted, the propor-
tion convicted being lin 4i. In 1840, there were
thirty-eight acquitted, and eighteen convicted, the pro-
portion convicted being nearly 1 in 3. The results,
therefore, of these returns were (at least it would seem
so), that when executions were carried into effect, in

the next year a less proportion were convicted,
and that since custom and justice had been that
such sentences should in all cases be commuted,

very principles, sacrificing his own, that he had limited
the Bill to thiso offmces on which he was sure a great
majority of the people, especially that class out of which
Juries were selected, would go along with Lim to
the full extent, It cave him great satisfaction
to find that the Noble Lord in advancing
that reform which he had so ably introduced in 1837, was
now willing to concur in the abolition of capital punish-
ment with respect to several offence; to which Isis Bill
advered ; but he must express his disappointment that
the Noble Lord had stopped shoo, and had expressed his
unwillingness to concur in the abolition of the punishment
of death for setting fire to ships in the dockyards, The
pririciple of the Pill introduced by the Noble Lord in