The Sun.
London, England, 1841-01-26 00:00:00

SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY, JANUARY 'A, 1811.

her communion, with bequests in hundreds of the parishes
in the kingdom especially applicable to tlie maintenance of
the fabric and services of the Cleirch, with power in the
hands of her;opponents to prevent e
the levying of a rate in
d the
w otnd paltry
tthe
remnant,
self-respect
d en
hundreds of parishes more, wasit too much to ask this
cCe ha us
er ctlau t
ao
ngn iovy tli()
e up sclo
luiasbbling c
s for
, an
of thousands of upright, loyal, and religious men? This
was the compensation they demanded. Less than this
ti iv would not accept.—(Loud cheers.) What the Le-
gislature would not abolish, Dissenters would ere long
abolish themselves. Wearied and sickened with hopes
deferred, they would presently start up as the vindicators
of their own claims. For every refusal of payment now
exhibited, there would soon be a thousand._( Hear, hear)
—for every ecclesiastical prisoocr there would be hundreds.
—(Cheers.) From parish to parish, from county to county,
the determination to pay no more Church-rates would travel
on—all the faster too in proportion to Lord John Rus-
sell's efforts to perpetuate them—until the lesson
should have been: thoroughly learned by the Dissenting
community, that man owes no allegiance to the State in
relation to spiritual affairs.—( Hear, hear.) The immedi-
ate issue of this case might be extremely doubtful—it
might terminate in mere stringent laws for the enforce.
ment of ecclesiastical demands, or it might wring from
an unwilling Legislature the abolition of the degrading
impost. But the great practical truth involved in
freedom of conscience, could not ultimately be stayed in
its progress.--( Hear.) As it was now universally recog-
nised as a maxim of British law, that " a man's house
is his castle, and that, although the four winds of heaven
may whistle through it, the king of these realms dare not
set his foot within it," so must it sooner or later be re-
cognised as a principle of all Governments, that a man's
conscience is sacred, and that the statesman who dates to

intermeddle with it, not only may but ought to be re-
sisted.—( Cheers.) To this truth they swore eternal alle-
giance. Upon this in all solemnity they placed their foot,
and reared their standard to the breeze of heaven.—( Loud
cheers.) Rather than yield a foot of this ground, he said,
welcome contempt, welcome bonds, welcome death
itself.—(Cheers.) They might die in the struggle, but
the truth they contended for would live for ever. Let the
great leviathan—the monster of the political deep—laugh
in fancied security at the shaking of the spear; let clever
but puny statesmen, like Lord John Russell, ever busying
himself with great things in a small way, utter their gibes
and parody bad verse in the delighted hearing of a House
of Commons majority, to whom anything beyond a party
squabble was matter of ignorant derision ; let Blomfield in
the upper house, the bowie of hereditary wisdom, pronounce
his oracular condemnation ; and Exeter, the modern Bon•

net, blurt his venom upon them and upun their principles.
They would tell them honestly they knew the odds, and
they were prepared to encounter them.—( Cheers,) At
all events they knew their duty—they had taken their
vows: they threw down their gage to ecclesiastical domi-
nation, and from that moment they deliberately and un-
dauntedly would advance to the conflict with the fervent
prayer on their lips, " Gcd defend the right." He con-
cluded by proposing the following resolution :—" That, in
the opiniors of this meeting, the levying of Church-rates in
England is a grievous wrong inflicted upon a large portion
of the community—that their exaction invades the rights
of conscience and the freedom of religious opinion ; that
they lay heavy and unequal burdens on those who, at
their own expense, provide for the maintenance of places
of worship, and for that religious instruction which their
own sincere and honest convictions-approve ; that they are
a fruitful source of strife, and discord, and in so-
ciety, exposing the persons of excellent and virtuous men
to cruel, capricious, and uulimitcd persecutions—to bound-
less vexations and large pecuniary sacrifices; and therefore,
for the sake of peace and justice, that Church-rates ought
to be at once and for ever abolished."
Mr. WYNN ELI.Is was received with lend cheers. He
had ever declared and felt that the enforcement of Church-
rates from Dkienters was contrary to every principle of
justice, and at direct variance with the letter and spirit of
that Christianity of which the Church assumed to be the
especial protector and guardian.—(Cheers ) Mr. Ellie
continued by saying, numerous authorities have at various
times been quoted ; but one, to my mind, quite satisfac-
tory and conclusive, is 62d Law of Ethelred, where we
find tleese words concerning tithes, " The King and the
vise men have decreed, as is just, that the third part of the
tithes be given to the compensation of the Church, a se-
cond part to the minister, arid the third part to the poor."
—( Hear.) In those times, it may be as well to remark
that even tithe was a part of eleemosynary payment ; and
on the subsequent endowment of the tithe on the parish,
is it likely that the landowner would subject himself and
his lands to the payment of a rate, seeing to what pur-
poses the tithe then endowed had been hitherto de-
voted ? There exists no reeson fur thinking that a do.
parture then took place from that tripartite division of
the tithe to clergy, Church, and poor; so that the ques-
tion of right remaining with the objectors to a rate
at the present day, the right to consent or refuse a
rate remains with the people, and this rate can only be exer-
cised by the conscientious Dissenter in an unqualified refu•
sal. That refusal in so many large towns and parishes by
the majority ought long since to have taught the digni-
taries, the clergy, and the thinking laymen that the injus-
tice was too glaring to be submitted to, and that the rights
and consciences of Dissenters could no longer be violated,
and that it would be well to remove the disquiet by the
abrogation of ail pecuniary claims and all pretensions of
ecclesiastical supremacy. The Dissenter has conscientious
objections to support a Church in alliance with an earthly
head ; he knows no master but Christ in spiritual matters,
and denies the right and power of the Church as by law
established to shackle that freedom of thought which an
all-wise Creator has placed beyond all haman power and
subjection. The conscientious Christian resolves to resist
—a gloomy prison, with separatkn from friends, and all the
endearments of home and family may follow ; and this is,
indeed, an evidence of his consistency, and the faith which
guides and directs him; and it ill becomes the par-
tisans of the Church to attempt to cast ridicule upon
his conduct, or to question his motives : for the
latter he is answerable only to the head of his
Church, and the attempt may give rise to questions

. „
sufficiently perplexing to the Establishment—how came
there to be Dissenters, and what the cause of their
great increase of late years, s-eing that their numbers ex.
teed the population of Great Britain and Wales a century
ago ?—( litar.) The answer must be, that the clergy s'ept
in luxurious ease, leaving the people a prey to the assaults
of Satan, and, but for the energies of the Dissenters, the
people, especially in the great towns, would have sunk in
ignorance, depravity, and vice ; that to the Dissenters so-
ciety is under the highest obligations; they alone opposed
tho torrent of infidelity, and were unceasing in their
efforts to seek and to save ; and it ill became the Church,
now just awakening from its lethargy to a sense of the
danger from which society has escaped, to throw ridicule
upon the religious sentiments and views of those to whose
piety and efforts they owe their own and their country's
comparative security, and of the claims of Dissenters nut
conceded. Will not questions most inconveniently per-
plexing as to the fuuniation of the Church as by law esta-
blished arise ? Her varied shiltings and changes during
that discreditable period of her history in the days of Henry,
Edward, Mary, and Elizabeth, be scrutinize", exa-
mined, and condemned ?—( Hear, hear.) Sincerely de-
siring that these unseemly pretensions may be abated, and
that the strife may be for the gain of souls, rather than
worldly glory, greatness, and pre-eminence, I heartily de-
sire that the Church will co-operate in an act of justice
and right to Dissenters; and that all Christian men unite
in promoting the designs and est-meads of the Gospel,
remembering that great commandment, that they love one
another. —( Cheers. )
The resolution was then put from the Chair, and
passed unanimously.
Mr. HUME was received with loud cheers. Ha was not
one of those who wished to countenance violence on any
occasion; but he was one who wished to see men, when
they professed independent principles, act up to their
opinions, and prove the sincerity of their conviction,
by advocating and maintaining them with all the powers
that they had.--( llear, hear.) Tho Dissenters had failed
to do so, and they had been trampled upon as they de-
served.--(Cheers.) lie had been, he said, much struak
with one thing that had fallen from the gentleman who
had proposed the first resolution, and he wishedito ask that
gentleman whether he was certain that hecould be correct in
what he had stated with respect to Lord John Russell and
the part that Noble Lord was about to take on this seb-
ject? He had been present in the House of Commons and
had heard what had fallen from the Noble Lord when he
advocated the abolition of this oppressive tax—oppressive
not so much in amount, but oppressive because it marked
inferiority in one class and superiority in another.s--(1-INtr,
hear.) He was one of those who were opposed to the dos
urination of the Church, for he held that every man in this
country ought to be, and by the Constitution was, entitled
to equality of civil rights. All men were entitled
to have their religious feelings respected and their civil
rights equally maintained. The man, then, who professed
in sincerity and honesty his conscientious opinions should
not be persecuted for so doing. The Dissenters proved
that they were perfectly sincere, for lie knew that they sa-
crificed advantages which they might have had if they com-
plied with the Church forms. They did not do so, and
that to him was a proof their sincerity. Let him not be
told, then, that the Dissenters were not both honest and
sincere. No proof could be stronger than a man maintaining
his principles at the sacrifice of his private interests. Dis-
senters had, highly to their honour, always done so; for their
.
opinions they had sacrificed place, emolument, and high
rank in society.--( Hear.) But then they had not done their
duty, and he would tell them how. When Lord Althorp,
from his sense of the injustice of the Church-rates, had
risen in his place in the House of Commons to denounce
them, and a motion was brought forward on the subject,
Lord John Russell, he could say, made a speech on the
occasion which showed the necessity that some measure
should be passed which would remove this injustice. Lord
Althorp certainly on that occasion proposed a measure, or
rather the means of putting an end to the cause of these
disturbances in every parish, and that once for all would
remove this evil from the Dissenters. It might appear
strange that, in an assembly like the present, he ( Mr.
Hume) should rise up to say. that though the Dissenters
did not, as we understood,-object to this plan, yet that he
said that he never would consent that the Church- rates,
even according to their present mode of collection, should
be put an end to for the purpose of placing them on the
consolidated funds of the country.—( Ilezr.) And before
he left this subject, he wished to state that he moved an
amendment to the effect that it was incumbent on the House,
before they were warranted in placing this additional
burden on the consolidated funds of the country, to
look to the administration of the ample funds already in
the possession of the Church. On this question going to
a division, he was beaten by a majority of 130 ; but ho
then told the Noble Lord that his next division would be
better. He told him that ho would not give up his oppo-
sition unless the rates were to be removed from the Con-
solidated Fund and 'altogether from the Dissenters.—
( Cheers.) The Noble Lord took the counsel that had
been given him, and never brought forward the proposi-
tion
again. He only mentioned this for the purpose of
begging them to look at the speeches that have been made
on this occasion, and they would have no reason to quarrel
wi'h the opinions that were given utterance to by Lord
bAeletnh otrhpe
naenxd Lo t
stepr d John e
f.Aiin
ilsZtuesrsse?l ButHe w
was
asilnradttl h e
et
a etnn, bad
refer
to it because his friend near him had referred tt the :nro-

perty of the Church. Did not Lord John Russell, or,
at least, Mr. Spring Rice, as the organ of the Govern-
ment, bring forward that which he called an excellent
proposition, such as no honest man could object to—one
that was just, and therefore one that ought to be carried ?
He had said that there was a large amount of Church
lands so managed that they could not be made available far
the purposes of the Church. He took it that all property
of the Church was public property, and where it was not
administered as it ought to be, to that extent were the
public interests injured. It was proposed, then, to take
the Church lands as they now existed, and it was pro •
posed to let them at the full value, as every other property
was let, and it was shown that the excess would be six or
seven hundred thousand a year, a sum amply sufficient to
pay for Church-rates and all other demands similar to it.
That, he said, was an honest proposition, and one that
ought to have been adopted.—( Hear, hear.) First, it
took away the corrupt administration of the property, and
then, by a just administration of the same property, it
afforded funds for the repairs of the edifices of the Establish-
ment, and freed the Dissenters from all demands for them.
On a narrow division, it was discovered that other interests
came in which checked and marred the proposition. Minis-
ters found they were unable to carry it. They then withdrew
the measure altogether, and from that hour to the present
no step had been taken on the part of the Government.
After the opinions that had been expressed by Lord John
Russell and Lord Althorp, he said to those assembled, do
not blame them, but rather blame the [-louse of Commons
as it is at present constituted. He had no hesitation in
saying that as the House of Commons was at this moment
constituted, Ministers could not do anything to aid the
Dissenters. The people's Representatives, the people
themselves. are to blame. He had no hesitation in saying
that he cordially supported the resolution that had been put
into his hand. it was this—" That the constitution and
proceedings of the Ecclesiastical Courts are unworthy of
an enlightened age, and incompatible with the due admi-
nistration of justice—hostile to the civil and religious
liberty of the Dissenters ; and, therefore, that those tri-
bunals ought to be abolished, or to be confined in their ju-
risdiction to those who approve of that ecclesiastical po-
licy of which they are the guardians." He continued by
saying, it must be evident that this and the preceding
question formed one and the same subject ; out of the first
arose the second, and he could scarcely make an ob-
tervation on the one that would not apply to both. He had
that day visited their county gaol ; he had seen the
victim of ecclesiastical persecution. He saw the, martyr to
conscientious principle—the man who, whatever were
now his sufferings, must hold up his head higher than be-
fore, however much and greatly he had been respected.—
( Hear.) It was only by such men that England had ever
relieved herself from any oppresssion.—(Cheers.) The
moment such an honourable individual as Mr. Baines arose
in a country he changed the aspect of affairs altogether--
( Haar.) His excellent and well-known friend, Jeremy
Bentham, had said " the people never could get relief
from a Government until they make the ruling few a little
uneasy."--( Hear, hear.) When they showed that they
were determined to have their rights, then those disposed
to act unjustly would think it much better to give up a
little than to lose a chance of all. A good leader was a
good thing. and they had an excellent one. Here was
the instance of a man who had given up all the comforts
of his family, and who, for conscience sake, was for ten
weeks confined within the prison walls.—( Hear, hear,
and cries of " Shame.") Wd3 not that sufficient to
arouse their sympathy ? Ought it not to spread
through the whole country? Ought it not to create
unanimity, energy, and action in the whole Dissenting
body ? When he found the Dissenters exceeded the
number of Churchmen, be said that they ought at
least to show that they were determined not to be plun-
dered in this way. He could only tall them what he him-
self intended to-do in June last with reference to the enor-
mous funds of the Established Church. His proposition
with respect to those funds he did not think an unfair one.
He found in May or June last that notwithstanding the
immense income of the Established Church, a proposition
was to be made to the Commons, calling upon them to
vote away two or three millions for the purpose of build-
ing churches for the Establishment.—( Hear, hear.) A
more impudent demand he never knew of, nor did he be-
lieve it possible that such a demand could be made. It
was to the credit of the Tories—and as he had not many
things to tell to their credit he might as well mention this
—(Laughter)—that when Sir Robert Inglis's motion came
on, the Tories were so much ashamed of it, that they would
not allow him to make a House. But he had anticipated
the debate, for he had stated, if it came on, he would meet
it with a counter proposition. What he meant to have
proposed was this :—Upon the discussion of Sir Robert
Inglis'a motion, that instead of the members of the Esta-
blished Church taking Church-rates from the Dissenters,
they (the Dissenters), being half of the population, ought
to come in at once and claim the half of the Church pro-
perty from the Establishment.—(Cheers and laughter.)
He meant to say that, by right and by law, they could do
tile, and there would be a difficulty in showing otherwise.
He said that the Dissenters were more than half of the
population—that they were as sixteen million to eleven,
including Dissenters of all kinds; but that, taking
them at one-half, the Dissenters, instead of agreeing to
pay Church-rates, they ought to come in and make their
representatives alter the law, and take the kalf of the pro-
perty from the Church.—(Cheers, and laughter.) But
when he proposed it he meant to do something further
than that ; he meant to say to the Dissenters, " By your
principles you cannot take one farthing of this fund, I
therefore call upon you to give it to me, and I will reduce
taxes to that amount."—(Cheers.) He was sure that this
was an honest proposition—he was sure it was a just pro-
position, and, being both honest and just, why should they
not have it ? In the first place, he could tell them they
would not have it until they asked for it, and until they
made a point to have it.—( Haar, hear, hear.) They
must make the voice cf the people be beard. They must
let it be known what it was they were determined upon :
that they would not be directed by a Bishop of Exe-
ter, or any other who seemed to think that he was to
rule them as a Lord, and they were to be but his crea-
tures. For, as long as they were foolishand weak enough
to submit to this, they could get nothing. and they
might expect nothing. He now came back to the point of
the constitution of the House of Commons. As long as it
continued this impost would be continued ; and therefore
those who elected men to vote for Church-rates, deserved
to pay them. He was quite satisfied that the imprison-
meet of Mr. Baines, following fast as h did upon that of
John Thorogood, must arouse the public feeling on this
subject. It might lead to fill their gaols with Baineses and
Thorogoods. Did it but do so, they would soon see the
effect of the excitement. He recommended to them above
all things unanimity in their proceedings. Let there be
that and perseverance, and they must succeed. Any man
who looked at the Ecclesiastical Courts must be convinced
that during many years they had inflicted the greatest injury
on the community. Let them look for instance at this
very case of Mr. Baines, where the original demand was
21. 55., and where, because he did not choose to violate his
conscience, the expense was increased to 125/ —( Hear.)
A bill to that amount was actually run up against him.
It was only necessary to state such a proceeding to excite
emuuse
the horror of every sound-thinking and consciemtious man.
There was, he must say, a hope that the Ecclesiastical Courts
must be put down,
he said they must,
it
had been made would be kept, for he had agreed to a Bill,
a compact that
powermost i
n someunwillingly
3, that species of
power which he would object to give to men in any situa-
tion. But he assented to it because he was told, that un-
less he agreed to the Bill in that form, it would not be
accepted in another place, a place so sacred that it was
never named by them, but where certain individuals sat as
if behind a curtain, concealed from their view, and yet to
re he
respects cts
to admitted,byhe Bishop 3,
g a y e
uncontrolled
whose wishes they were obliged to accede. He then had
been told that unless he consen'ed to the proposition he
had before mentioned there was no chance for the removal
of the Ecclesiastical Courts. lie did hope, then, to see
these Courts removed. He had never heard one man in
the House of Commons defend them. It was to the credit
of the House of Commons that none could be found to do
so ; and, therefore, in the next Session he expected to see
them annulled, if not entirely changed.
Mr. EasTuore, who was received with loud cheers,
could assure the meeting that he approached this question
with usual anxiety. The first question they had to ask
themselves, with respect to the impost of Church-rates,
and with respect to the imprisonment of Mr. Baines, was
one always asked by men when they saw a fellow-being
enduring hardship—was it justice ? What was the answer
to that question ? The answer to it was to be found (as
it had been already stated by his Honourable Friend) in
the speeches of Lord Spencer, who declared in the House
of Commons that it was an impost which no man
at the present day could defend, and to be regarded as
a great grievance upon conscience, He appealed for
his next answer to the same, question to the
emphatic language of Lord Jehe Russell; and no
man could be more explicit than the Noble Lord
upon the point : and last, though not least, he appealed to
Lord Stanley, who repudiated Church-rates as unseemly,
impolitic and unjust.—(Cheers.) Were they, then, to
reason as though it were difficult or needful to prove Church.
rates unjust in Leicester ? Were they to do this when
they saw one known by them all—respected by them all—
moat worthy of the respect he received—yet incarcerated
within their prison walls, because he could not, by reason
of his conscience—not because he could notif he would—no,
but because his conscience told him he ought not, and
therefore cot.ld not sanction the impost ?—( Cheers.)
Could it, then, appear to the men of England that this
impost was just—that at the present time, when, proud of
their liberty, they boasted of superiority over all the world,
a man—an Englishman—should be so burdened, so op-
pressed that, for his conscientious feelings, his person
should be incarcerated, his family exposed to difficulty,
his business injured, his happiness blasted—and this be.
causo he would not contribute to a Church in the possession
of vast wealth, from which he conscientiously dissented ;
a Church that could not require this pecuniary support if it
did not persist in the gross mad-administration of its im-
mense property ?—( Hear.) No ; this was one of those
unjust inflictions for which no excuse could be found,
arid no palliation devised. L was injustice accompanied
by the most bungling mismanagement. It was in-
justice aggravated by the greatest improvidence that ever
was permitted to exist in a highly civilized community.
(Cheers.) He was sure that the next question they would
ask themselves, as practical men, was, what was to be
done to remove the glievance ? They should not go
about this matter with angry feelings ; but let their exer-
tions be marked as much by mildness as by firmness, and
regulated equally by good temper as by determined per-
severance, so that the plans and the manner of working
them out should be those best calculated to remove the
abuses.—( Hear, hear.) He must now soy that, in some
of the observations that had been made by his friend who
opened the business of the meeting, he did not coincide.
He did not think, with his reverend friend, that the mem.
hers of the Established Church generally cherished its
abuses in the manner imputed to them by his friend. They
did not support an abuse because they liked it ; to a great
extent they were ignorant of the abuse. Might it not
be said that the Dissenters had not represented and ex-
posed the abuse as they ought to have done ? The fact
was, that there was not unanimity amongst even the
Dissenters themselves—(HeAr, hear)—and consequently
there was not that determination exhibited by them which I
was worthy of the occasion.—( Hear, hear.) They had

been told by Mr. Hume that there was a gross mismanage.
rn-Tit of Giereb property. Call, then, upon the members
of The Established Church fur a proper and careful manage-

.
mereof their property, and prove to them that there couid
not even be a pretext for the demand for Church-rates,
and ali the oppressions
.consequent upon their collection,
anal then justice will—must, gain ..or yon numerous friends
amoilgit the memb:_,rs of the Est4blished Church. Some
of Coe Dissenters were not sati,fied with relief for them.
selves, or anything short of the entire abolition of Church.

In this he thought they were wrong. IF the Cottrell
r solved to rAte its own members, Dissenters should be sa-
ti,,fied with being themselves exempted. Was it, he asked,
to be borne that in the name of religion such contests were
tc be fostered in this country as were produced by the
annual demand for Church-rates?—that men, who might
otherwise live in love and happiness together, should
b.- marked out for conflict with each other as Church-

men and Dissenters ?—( Hear, hear.) Let the grievance
be properly exposed, and not only would the Church
of England men aid them, but every honest and enligh-
tened man of all sects would tender to them his as-
si,tance,and all would soon exclaim with them that Church-
rates an impost disgraceful to the age, their enforce-
nimt a calamity to the country, a nuisance not longer to
be endured.—( Loud cheers. ) The second proposition in
the resolution referred to the abolition of the miscalled
Christian" Courts. In his opinion they might be more
truly designated courts of persecution ; for they were any
tiling but " Christian," especially if one looked to the
keavery employed in some of them.—( Hear.) Let thN-n,
fnr instance, observe the case of Sarah Young, who had
been unjustly and illegally imprisoned, and who was now
turned out of her cell, when the public eye was directed
to those who perpetrated the injustice against her, and
when public indignation was prepared to punish them.—
( Hear.)
Mr. STEELE as a member of the Church of England
considered it a matter of principle to express his dissent
from the doctrine of their excellent and respected repre-
sentative, Mr. Easthope, when he controverted the po-
sition laid down by the Rev. Gentleman who opened the
discussion of the evening. He could not but affirm that
the Protestants did actually cherish the abuses, by not re
sisting them.—( Cheers.) He did not think that the Pro-
testants should throw upon the Dissenters the onus of
uniting among themselves in order to the selection of
some fixed plan of operation, before the Protestants ex-
erted themselves to endeavour to obtain for them the
justice to which they were entitled ; on the very contrary,
it behoved those who were already united as a body,
and with the strength derived from that union, to exert
every energy of their nature to di.serer from Protest-
antism the disgrace of being accessary to this robbery ;
he said robbery, and robbery of the worst kind ;
for what robbery could be more iniquitous that that plun-
der derived from amercing a man for his conschaiitiers reli-
gious opinions, when religion should b.: nothing else than
an ethereal communion of spirit between a man's own soul
with his God ?—( Cheers.) He was a mere private gen!le-
man of Ireland, of studious and meditative habits, a mem-
ber of the senate of the University of Cambridge; but, as

•
it had barn his auspicious destiny to take avery active
part in the conflict for the religious liberty of his oppressed
Catholic brethren, he thought it highly appropriate to the
pr,,sent occasion that he should state to the people of Lei-
cester that the Irish Catholics, during their struggle for
their own religious liberty, no less than four times peti-
tioned the Imperial Legislature for the freedom of con-
science of the English Protestant Dissenters; and it waa
by the mighty man who was just now about to address
(hens on toe subject of Mr. Baines's martyrdom that
those petitions were drawn and proposed for adoption.—
(Cheers. )
Rev. C. BURY perfectly concurred in the sentiments
contained in the resolution, both as to the character and
abuses of the ecclesiastical courts. lie was glad to learn
from Mr. flume that the Government intended to take up
this subject. As there were in that assembly many mem-
of the Established Church, he would say to them that
begged of them to observe the signs of the times, to
10.,k to what was taking place there, for they must see that
unless the Establishment be quickly reformed, the Church
Inuit and ought to be overwhelmed and destroyed.—
(Cheers.) Though a Dissenter from the Church, he said
teat with a searching reform, it might be a great blessing,
while without it, it was—a very great evil at least.—
,
( ILnr and laughter- )
The resolution was then carried unanimously.
The CHAIRMAN had now to announce that the emanci-
pitor of his country, and the friend of every shade and co-
lour of the human race, was about to move the next tics°.

I Lc ion.
Mr. O'CoNNELL bete presented himself amidst enthusi-
astic chews from all parts of the meeting, and said, the
resolution committed to his care ran thus :—" That this
meeting has seen, with heartfelt regret. Mr. William
Baines, a man wha in the private and public walks of life
has secured the regard and esteem of all who have known
him, tore. from his home for his conscientious recusaney in
the matter of Church-rates, and incarcerated in a gaol by
the authority of the Ecclesiastical Court; that, while it
expresses its deep sympathy with him in his manifold pri-
vations, it must at the same time declare its stern condem-
nation of the system of which he is the victim ; and feeling,
that in his person an indignity has been offered to every
Dissenter in these realms, as well as an outrage perpetrated
against the spirit of the age, it trusts that there will be
made, not only from the town of Leicester, but from every
part of the kingdom, such an appeal to the Parliament and
the Throne, as shall not only secure the immediate libe-
ration of Mr. Baines, but effectually prevent the recurrence
of such disreputable proceedings." That resolution, he
observed, is a speech in itself, and required no advocacy.—
( Laughter.) H was glad of it, for his advocacy was so
identified with himself, that he became liable to the censure
if the proverb which sad that every man who was his own
counsel had a fool for his client.—( Laughter. ) The whole
tenor of his life had been identified with the principles of
civil and religious liberty, and when, for the first time, he
that day beheld Mr. Baines within the precincts of the
common gaol, he was delighted to find that the man who
bad offered himself a marts r in the cause of freedom of
conscience was unpretending, simple, unsophistica:ed,
mild, and gentle in his demeanour; who made in his oe n
case no boast, and who set it off with no exaggeration, but
still one ready, manfully and boldly rather to sacrifiee his
life than to yield one atom of the principle for which he
was contending.—( Cheers. ) It was by men of this de.
seription that every battle for British liberty had been won.
It was not the paltry 2s. 61. that Hampden had been
called upon and refused to pay, that necessarily created
the civil war, and that foolishly and wickedly terminated
in the death of the Monarch, for surely it would have
been sufficient to have banished him from the country for
ever. No—it was not the paltry consideration of money,
it was the mighty principle of British liberty that was in-
volved—it was that which led H impden to oppose him-
self to the exaction, that made him ready to forfeit his
life, and which life he ultimately did forfeit, in contending
for freedom..--(Cheers.) He thought that Mr. &tines
was acting on the same nrinciple, he was participat-
ing in the same suffe,ings ; but he trusted they would
have a different and less disastrous consequence, while he
equally contributed to the triumph of the principle of free-
dom of conscience.—( Cheers.) He himself had been the
advocate of the principle perpetually in the sis.er-coun-
try ; he had never placed the claims of the Catholics upon
any other ground than this—that conscience ought to be
fret ; that it was a crime to interfere with a man's creed ;
that it was a crime if it were attacked by force or !ram!,
or that its profession should bring with it any limitation of
civil reghts. That principle had been triumphant in their
ernai.cipation, but at all times they were ready to struggle
fir others ; and, as it had been truly stated by his friend,
they had four times petitioned in favour of the Protestant
D'ssenters of England. The emancipation of die Dis-
senters had immediately followed a petition which he had
tile honour of drawing up, and which was signed by
100,000 persons.—( Loud cheers.) To him, then, it was
a matter familiar as household words to find himself the
advocate of liberty of conscience, and without which that
other cannot exist—the voluntary principle for the suste-
nance of religion. If there be net religious feeling enough
to sustain and support the pastor, it is a proof they
do not want him. If they have not enough of reli-
gion to support a, pastor, it shows that he does not teach
them enough of religion to induce them to do so; the evi-
dence that the pastor is not supported is a proof that he is
not wanted. He was for supporting the voluntary prin-
ciple, because it would put an end to the dominion, the
power and tyranny of the Established Church. He spoke
of the abstract principle and the principle of freedom of
conscience, which would leave men to worship their Cod
in the manner and form most suited to satisfy the Deity.
Hear, hear.) He objected to the persecution of Mr.
Bainee upon other grounds than the infringement of con-
science, as contrary to common sense and common ho-
nesty, Mr. Baines was a Dissenter ; why should he pay
money to the Established Church ? Ho did not get value
from the clergy of the Established Church. The clergy
did not pray for him, why should he pay them? Nothing
but in justice could require of him to pay for them.—( Hear,
hear.) If one of these who owned a worsted factory in
that town, and when his men came on Saturday night to
be paid, went to a neighbour and said, " Pay these people,
they have been employed by me ; they have worked ex-
ccedifigly well ; do you pay them"—(Laughter)--the
neiglibeur, if a surly person, might be very angry with
him who made such a demand ; if a merry fellow, he
might laugh at him ; and if a malicious individual, he
might say, " Why, my Heaven I is not a commission of
lunacy taken out against my neighbour ?"—( Laughter.)
If, then, the thing were unjust six days in the week, did it
become more rational or proper because it is applied to
the Sunday ? The parsons said, " Here is my factory on
a Sunday; I work in it, and do you, Mr. Baines, pay me."
The reply of Mr. Baines was obvious:—" I have a little
factory of my own, arid do you call on those for whom you
work, but it is dishonest and knavish of you to ask for pay-
ment from me, who get no value from you."—( Hear.)
Suppose a man employed a tailor, why should another
pay for him ? He did not see more sense in paying
another man's tailor than in paying another man's parson.
Supposing he were sick, and sent for a physician, should
he call upon his pour neighbour to pay for his physician ?
The neighbour might say, " Pay him who has cured
you." And he did not see why there should be a differ-
ence made between hitsi who cured the body and he who
cured the soul. Bath should be paid by those only who
wanted them. Whoever wanted the doctor, he said, let
that man pay him. That was the principle of common 1
sense and common honesty.—( Hear, hear, hear.) He
knew one thing that was said on this subject, that if
there was not c.mpulsory payment, there would be no
establishment for the education of the poor. Let no
nian tell him that, for if he did so, he would immedi-
ately point to the country tom which he came. He said
that it was not necessary that a single shilling should
be enforced for the payment of clergy.—( Hear. ) His
Hon. Friend had told him of a particular period, when the
ecclesiastical property was distributed in a manner dif-
ferent from the present. At that time the funds were
allocated to several purposes, one for the support of the
poor, another for the maintenance of the church, and the
remaining portion for the elergymen. Up to the period
of the Reformation, it could not be found that a person was
irenvieoned for not contributing to the support of the
clerey. It was a modern invention, and it was a coed
one. ii was manifest that it was not in the spirit of the
Criureli to be thus connected with the State, and to have
the arm of the law to enforce those payments. Ho came

back to Ireland, and he showed that the. priests of thu
people were well supported without any compulsory ex-
action. He was not there to state how the population A.
his country had been reduced to starvation and b, glary.
There ►were other opportunities for discussing that sub-
ject, and he was nothing loth. to avail himself of them. It