The Sun.
London, England, 1847-01-20 00:00:00

SELECT VESTRIES.

The Martinis (rt. LANDSDOWNE i.ave notice that it
was his intention. on Pt, c'ar!Y citY. to 1-4%ng in a Bili for
the better regulation of Select Vestries.
TUE QUEEN'S SPEECH.
The LORD CHANCELLOR then, in duo form, pro-
ceeded to read
At the close of the reading of the SpPei+,
Lord lIATHERTON rose and said-51y Lords, it is
now my duty to invites, ur orclAips'consid, ra lion to the
Address which I have the honour cf prorodng in reply
to the speech of her Most Gracious Majesty, which you
hal', just heard read. The coneiiion of lielario
,justly
foi prominent topic in that speech and I am sure
the Important circumstances corinect.,l v.iih it will
fu!ly entitle me atteelpting• any justification of it.—
(llour, hear.) Fir the linq time for a long period

of years Ireland appears no longer to be the arena of
political agitation. The question, therefore, which we
have now to consider is no longer a question of party
interest, or of party opposition, or of party policy, for
it has pleased the Almighty in his wisdom to
inflict upon that country a wide-spread famine,
unequalled, I believe, in past history, certainly not to be
paralleled in the history of modern times. It is truly
an overwhelming infliction, falling, unhappily, upon
many millions of the population of this kinvlum.
The population of Ireland since the year 1792—
that is during the last 75 years has exactly
doubled. The potato, during that period, has been an
article of food in common throughout the whale country;
;srid it is well known, that in every year that has elapsed
since that period, down to the present time, that the
potato has become more and more an article of exclusive
subsistence of a large portion of the Irish people; not
only, however, was it the principal article of subsistence
of the cottar and the peasant, but it has been the chief
article of subsistence of the small farmer; and not only
even was it the principal article of subsistence of the
small farmer, but I believe it has also formed the prin-
cipal article of subsistence of a large portion of the
population residing in the suburbs of large towns.
His Lordship then proceeded to say that potatoes formed
not only the sustenance of the people themselves, but
the sustenance also of the animals which they reared.
The value of the potato crop, it was estimated,
amounted annually to sixteen millions ; and when
their Lordships considered the immense amount
of sustenance . which it afforded, some idea
might be formed of the awful misery consequent on its
failure. The failure of that crop had brought on a famine
that not only proved destructive to the poorer classes,
but threatened the existence of every man of every grade
in the community. The union workhouses were filled
to overflowing, and so crowded had they become that
they were obliged to close the doors against
further admissions. He had also to state,
in reference to this, that many of these
houses were bordering on the brink of bankruptcy. By
the Labour-rate Act, passed at the close of last session,
presentment sessions were held in 293 baronies out of
the 326 baronies of Ireland. In some of these
the sessions were held onee, in others twice,
and in a considerable number of them three times. It
was thought, when that Act was passed, that it would
meet the extent of distress then anticipated, and
it then received the approbation of all parties.
He was not aware that any person in authority at that
time foresaw the extent of the calamity, or denounced
the measure as inadequate. In this state of things
it became absolutely necessary for the Lord-Lieu-
tenant, in communication with the Government of this
country, to consider what was to be done for the
urpose of continuing to employ the people, and
to do it on a principle satisfactory to the landed
proprietors, and not ruinous to the ceuntry at
large. There were two paths to be taken,
and one was to assemble Parliament to devise other
measures ; and the other was, for the Lord-Lieutenant
to take on himself the direction and management of the
public money as he best could under the circumstances.
It was impossible for any Government to have taken a
wiser course than the one which the present Govern-
ment did in not adopting the tormer alterna-
tive. There would have been the long delay before
Parliament assembled, and a long -discussion
when it did. The Government had sufficient experience
in guarding against the greatest evil of all—which would
have been suspense—which would have been pending
during the proceedings of assembling Parliament, and
during the discussion little or nothing could be done by
the landed proprietors, and the landlords of course, in that
state of suspense, would only wait to ascertain the
result of their deliberations. If the Lord Lieutenant
took on himself the exercise of a just discretion, and
determined, as far as possible, to accommodate the di-
rection of the existing Act of Parliament, by adopting
such an extension of its powers as would permit it to be
applied to the occupation of the people in private
and useful works, and to do so, under such
regulations as to insure to the public the benefit of any
money expended. Bat to do this it was by no means
operative, so as to admit of the employment of the public
money exclusively in drainage or the reclamation of waste
lands, for many of the landowners had no land
which required draining, and some of them had
already accomplished these works, and very little ad-
varcement was made under Mr. Lateouchere s Act. A
very usual complaint was made, and a very natural one
it was indeed, that the Irish landlords could not guard
against the injustice of the double tax. A man who had
released his lands from any charge, was not released from
his contribution to the baronial expenses. In this state
of things it was natural that they should cry out for
the area in which the present levies were male to he
extended to the electoral districts. He congratulated the
Noble Duke for his suggestions, which he had made
some years ego when the Irish poor-law was
brought under consideration, and his objection to the
very serious mischief which would arise to every
area in the district being compelled to support the ex-
pense of its ,wn poor. He always regretted that his
valusble sugee,tions were not carried out.—(llear.)
There was also another Act under which authority was
given to grant 50,0001. for employment in public works,
such as fisheries, and other works of that description.
But it was so clogged with inconvenient provisions that
it could not be turned to present material advantage.
Ireland was consequently in this condition, that there
was at present a stop put to drainage in that country,
which was to be deplored, because it afforded the
means of giving beneficial employment to the
labouring classes, particularly in the summer month>.
To show that this would occur he need only mention
that draining at certain periods could not be carried
on, foroats had to be eown in the landas in ncx- mon:l., for
instance, aced drainage must then necessarily be suspended
The Labour-rate Act must then cease, because in many
districts it would be impossible to find objects upon
which to expend the public money. It would be
necessary, therefore, for their Lordships with
the other House, to devise some other modes
,if employing the people of Ireland. It was not his in-
tention to repeat what lie had heard as to what 004
mod,,s should be, nor would he wish to provoke ju,t then
a discussion, on that subject. He admitted its paramount
importance and the right of the pulke, deeply
interested is they were in the question, to be
-wade acquainted with all that related to it
as soon as possible ; but it would be the duty
or the ',Enlister of the Crown, and he would, as soon as
it could conveniently he done, bring this important
question under the consideration of the other House of
Parliament. Sueli was the statement which he
relt it his imperative duty to make to their Lordships,
sml if he had omitted anything which he should have
stated, there were so many of their Lordships so inti-
mately acquainted with all the affairs of Ireland, that
these omissions would be [surlily supplied. Besides, his
thou. Friend the Noble Bat-on who was to second
the Address, and who was so beneficially connected
ith the barony of Wexlc.rd, world be able
to atone fer any inaccuracy of his. W.l!, it
wins highly desirable that for this purpose one
should c en pare and examine the condition of society
and property in Eegland and Ireland. Nothing
be more dmeproportionrd, in thing could
-es more dispiriting. In England they had a
large propri, t,iry ; they had residing among them
vast moneyed intere t- a moneyed interest not con-
iiut:tl to this metropelis, the most extraordinary place of
le so: t in the world—but an interest extending to every
pert in the kingdom, and gene-ally spread over the
whole surface. They had, beeides, on the estates (4
these land!- rds a thriving and substantial yeomanry ;
;)4(y had a long-established and desirable or-
einize tien aitti the law under which they had
so long lived. There was scarcely a pariah
in England in which there were not means found
admirably adapted to render assistance to the most
humble classes in any crisis of the country.
But how different was the condition of the
p ople in Ireland. I here were, no doubt, several wealthy
proprietors there, and with respect to the erg inlzation
of that country, undoubtedly it was the fact that
there was an aptitude for organization for po-
litical purposes; yet it was unfortunately the
case, that for any practical or useful purp se
there was a remarkable want of this virtue. It
eels true, indeed, that for seine p ars past several
Acts of Parliament had greatly improved.
the social and meral condition of the people
He would illustrate the relative positions of the land-
lords and tenants of Ireland, by some analogic s, which
would bring the thin,* home to the imaginations of
the Noble Lords whom he was addressing.—
Supposing it possible that by some atmospherical
influence an insect were found to infect all the bags of
cotton which came into Manchester, so as to ruin the
trade which sustained the population of the county of Lan-
cashire. Had their Lordships then addressed the great
mill-owners of that country, in language like that which
had been addressed to the landlords of Ireland, they
weuld then have found congregated those parties who,
although they would have cheerfully borne the burden
those who had been born and bred in their service,
still their Lordships might expect that they would be
addressed in language similar to this:—" We are now
thrown on our resources, and are made responsible, in
order to meet this great emergency, yet we ex-
pect that some partial relief ought to be ex-
tended towards us by the Imperial Parliament
To bring this analogy more home to their Lordships
just let them supp.se that last autumn there had been a
fltilure in the wheat and oat crops of this country, would
it have been right, or would it even have been expected,
that the land. d interest alone should be called
upon to meet the calamity ?—(Hear, hear.) He made
those remarks spontaneously ; they had not been
suggested by any party; but in performing the task he
bad undertaken, he thought he had right to express his
views and feelings upon these various topics. Whatever
might be the issue of this fearful calamity, it was, in
the meantime, the duty of all parties, from
the highest Minister of the Crown, down to the
lowest member of society to use every exertion, and
make every personal sacrifice if necessary, to arrest its
further progress.—(Elear, hear.) What would have
been the condition of England had there been
no channel between this country and Ireland ?
Why it was perfectly certain that a vast amount of the
misery would have been extended to England, for
the demand for labour was so great and the rate of wages so
high in many branches of English manufactures, that there I
phaiitnerai:taenavil
calamity,
washav have been a greater influx of unemployed
prevail
::,aueras.i:tgo3tthaiisi country._ Whatever might be the result of
quite satisfied a just determination would
rest must ntht:sytshboeulicel ft
pasties to do their duty liberally, and the
to the
particular
of an all-wise Providence.
tion were used, he
wass,Tetchtietunc,saenndt suffering,thenthe if a little exer-
them better to understand the cisai,tion and blpe as
ssitntvg os ulo
fd teach
s measures had been sag-
.l2:idwas sure, after
cial condition. Two
Bested by her Majesty's Speech,
accede, to her
a given
first of
a little consideration, their Lordships
Majesty's request, and cordially adopt them,
rise to
those measures was to throw open the ports for
and do away with all restrictions upon the iraportgatioetnt of food.
It might be contended by some that this would
unnatural speculation, and serve to fill the pockets °Pia few in.

dividual merchants. Some partial evil of that descrip-
tion might possibly result from the measure, but still it
would be small indeed when compared with the good
the measure must inevitably confer upon the country. With
respect to the other measure, relating to the admission of sugar
into this country, their Lordships must bear this in mind, that
the price of barley at this time was 10s. per quarter higher
than at the corresponding period last year. Besides, the
brewers had raised the price of beer, while had sugar been
more plentiful in breweries, this evil could never have
arisen. It would be their duty to give th. se measures their
best consideration, and to see whether the request of her
Majesty with regard to them could not be readily acceded to
There were other measures not mentioned in the Speech which
he thought it necessary to be adopted for the purpose
of carrying out any plans for the improvement of Ireland.
For instance, the laws relating to real property ought to be in
some measure modified, and he was glad to see that this sub-
ject had been placed in the hands of a Noble and
Learned Lord who was remarkable for his per-
sonal ability and vast experience in such matters.
Her Majesty simply stated that, with reference to the marriage
between the Infanta of Spain and the Duke de Mentpensier,
she had ordered copies of the correspondence which
had taken place on that subject to be laid before
them and with regard to the annexation of Cracow, that not
only would the correspondence on that matter be laid
before them, but she also stated that she had commanded
a protest to be made by her Government to the
Governments of Austria, Prussia, and Russia for the violation
of the treaty, by which the independence of that republic was
secured. He must, however, take the liberty of saying, in his
private capacity, that such a violation of a solemn treaty
deserved the denunciation of all who were interested in the
stability and strength of the kingdoms of Europe, and he could
not help saying that Austria was the last country which
ought to have deviated from the principles of that treaty.
If from the distance of that republic it was impossible to
interfere, it was necessary that the strongest protest should be
entered against the proceeding, and as far as England was
concerned, he believed their Lordships would concur in the
general abhorrence with which it had been regarded.
The next paragraph of the Speech referred to the sanguinary
and cruel war which devastated the southern part of South
Anierica. With regard to it he had to state that, long as he
had been connected with a commercial and manufacturing
district, he had never heard any complaint preferred against
the late, or the present Foreign Secretary with
regard to the manner in which they had managed affairs in
that quarter. With regard to their amicable relations with
other countries, he was sure their Lordships would join in the
hope expressed as to their continuance. With reference to the
sanatory regulations referred to, he was sure that they would
meet with very general approbation, and he sincerely hoped
that measures for that purpose would not be long delayed.
With these plain observations, he should conclude with moving
that an humble Address be presented to her Majesty, which,
as usual, was an echo of the Speech.
Lord CAREW ( who was very indistinctly heard) said that,
in' rising to second the motion of his Noble Friend, he could
say, and say with truth, that he had always been reluctant to
address their Lordships, and they might, therefore, judge how
contrary it was to his feelings to be compelled to bear his
testimony to the misery and destitution existing in Ireland.
That reluctance was increased by the knowledge that the
present state of want and misery was peculiarly felt
by that part of the country to which he was peculiarly bound
by every tie of birth ; but he was urged on by the conviction
that if he did not address them it would appear as if he were
shrinking from his duty. Exaggeration of the misery would
be impossible, and amplification would be useless. Last year
an infliction fell upon the food of Ireland, and this year it had
fallen more heavily, particularly upon that food to which the
people looked for sustenance. They well knew that the
poorest portion of the Irish people depended upon the potato
for existence. There was an universal complaint of extreme
distress and famine. It might be said that it was an unsound
state for the people to be depending on any single article for
food. That was, however, the case, and that food had been
stricken by the inscrutable visitation of Providence, and the
people were starving in other countries; and in better regu-
lated countries employment was the surest test of prosperity ;
but in Ireland employment was not sufficient for the
people.—( Hear, hear.) The potato was there produced
with the greatest facility, and that facility had produced a
population more than sufficient for the labour to be performed.
In that particular portion of Ireland called the Skibbereen
county the visitation had been most severe, and it was that
portion of the country in which the potato was formerly most
prolific and best as regarded the quality. In many
parts the people were starving. Such was the dis-
tress in many cases that the small farmers were
consuming that portion of their stock which in
former years they had kept for seed. They were now coming
upon the public works, and each day added to their numbers.
It was necessary to carry forward the Labour Act. The re-
sults that had followed these experiments, had, un-
fortunately, not been as desirable as could have been wished.
And here he must do justice—justice which ws.s not
always done—to the landlords, and justice to the farmers, who
did not shrink from making themselves liable for the repayment
of the sums which had been contributed for the benefit and
provision of the poor. But the evil effects of the
good intentions of those who desired to avert and ameliorate
the distress existing in this peculiar manner were unfortu-
nately many. The whole country came under one gigantic
scheme, and as it must have been in some degree
experimental, it was impossible to blame them for
not having succeeded in the first instance, or being able to
carry them out.—( Hear.) In some cases the works could not
be overseen, and the consequence was that there was a waste
of the funds. In some instances there was in
fact an actual refusal by the necessary parties to act, and in
others a considerable unwillingness, which almost amounted
to the same. The difficulties were so great that they
had to struggle against hope.—( Hear, hear.) Starvation
was hard to bear, but it was his firm hope—it was his
conviction-- his belief—that when it pleased Providence to
rslieve the people of Ireland from the present famine
infliction, it would lead to the regeneration of that
country. Allusion had been made in her Majesty's
Speech to the cessation of political excitement. lA,
was well known that there was no country in the world so
which greater political excitement prevailed than in Ir-land,
and the natural ground of quarrel between Protestant and
Catholic was that of their faith. It had been his duty in
conjunction with the deputy-lieutenant of his own county
( Wexford) to organize the diffe ent committees appointed in
the several districts, and he had endeavoured in every i' stance
to emplot those whom lie considered the most discreet and
trustworthy in the different neigh bourhoods. (Hear. )
It was astonishing that so much patience was manifested
by the people of Ireland under this infliction ; but now he
could assure their Lordships that there was no heart left in Ire-
to support these distresses. Even the little boys wh n
going to school appeared heart struck, and destitution•aral
depression were but too visible in their faces.
He would take leave to disabwe their Lordships of a prejudice,
but te o prevalent, arising from the purchase of arms. It had
been asserted that the money which had been given for the
purpose of charity had been expended in the purchase of
arms. He could assnre their Lordships that the pur-
chasers of arms were to he found principally among the
farmers, and only for the purposes of self-protection. He would
illustrate this fact by a circumstance which came within his
own knowledge not many weeks ago. He had seen adver-
tised that 600 stand of arms were to be sold in his
own county, and he was exceedingly sorry to observe it. With
the view, therefore of ascertaining who were the purchasers,
he wrote to the editor of the paper, and he
would take leave to read to their Lordships the
substance of his answer. He told him ( Lord Carew) not
to be alarmed about the sale of fire-arms, because
it was not unusual for newspapers to insert advertisements
which might not be in unison with the feelings of the proprie-
tors. The fact was, that it was a speculation of the Birming-
ham gun-makers, and it was sufficiently notorious that John
Bull made the mast of his markets. The sale, however, did cot
meet their expectations, becauee only 30 stand were sold out of
the 6 0. The Irish people considered this a dispensation of
Providence, which they were obliged to submit to.
Lord STANLEY said it had of late years been the
practice of Government, except upon extraordinary oc-
casions, to abstain from introducing into the Speech
de livered from the Throne, and from the Address
to be moved in answer to it, in both Houses
of Parliament, any topics which were calculated to'give rise to
the expression of hostile opinions, or to lead to lengthened
debates. On the other hand, it had been the prac-
tice of those who were placed in opposition to abstain
from introducing into the discussion anything that
seas calculated to give rise to controversy, or to interfere with
the respectful scknowledgment or ready acquiescence to take
into consideration those measures and topics touched upon
in the Speech fi om the Throne. Of course, how-
ever, there had been occasions of momentous import when
the public exigencies required the Government to break
through this rule, and introduce into the Speech matters
which had given rise to extended controversy; while, on the
other hand, there had also been occasions when the Opposi-
tions to the Government had felt it to be their duty
at the outset of the session to introduce into the
Address, in answer to the Speech from the Throne, amend-
nsents which they might also think required immediate con-
sideration. No such extraordinary circumstances now ex-
isted, and it was, therefore, not necessary to int( r-
pose any amendment or obstacle in the way of the
adoption of the Address.—(Hear, hear.) Ile could not
but recollect the peculiar circumstances under which the Go-
vernment at present occupied their seats. He must do them
the justice to say that they had attained their present position
by no opposition of a factious nature. Indeed, he
might go so far as to say they had attained
it by no act of their own—indeed, they had been placed in
office by circumstances over wnich they had no control. He
believed many of diem with sincere reluctance exercised the
great responsibilities of office, and whatever might be their poli-
tical feelings, he was sure that both in, that House and in the
other House of Parliament there prevailed a general impres-
sion that, under existing circumstances, Government had a
peculiar claim to the forbearance of Parliament. But he
would go further. Whatever might be the peculiar
claims which the circumstances that called them into
office in August last entitled them to, they
ought, nevertheless, to be relieved as much as possible from
embarrassing amendments coming from the opposition. Great
and heavy responsibilities were pressing upon them, and every
man should, therefore, abstain from throwing any unnecessary
obstacles in the way. He could, therefore, promise her Majesty's
Government, that so long as they abstained from unneces
untie), interfering with the institutions of the country, so long
as they should resist the exciting inducements that might he
held out to them by their more violent: supporters, so long
Government might be satisfied, they would receive the
cordial support and co-operation of Noble Lords
sitting on his own side of the House. He could
not refrain from noticing what he considered to be a
very significant omission in the Speech from the Throne
There had been no allusion, no reference whatever, to the finan-
cial condition of the country. This omission might not have
excited much attention had not the recent returns exhibited
an increase in the revenue, and he thought it
very significant that no notice whatever had been taken of that
increase. There had beets for various reasons a large increase
in the consumption of exciseable articles, which, together
with the large importation of foreign produce, accounted
for the increase in the revenue, but that could
not be taken as an indication of the increased
prosperity of the country, as there had been no
corresponding increase in the latter. There was another indi-
cation also, that this was not an increase which could be de-
pended upon. There had been lately a great reduction of the
premium on Exchequer-bills. Some time ago the premium
on them was 40 her cent., but latterly it had come down to 5
or 6, and he expected, or apprehended, that it would be the
painful duty of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to raise the
interest on them. flc saw already that a considerable export
of bullion had taken place, and he was afraid that
before six months had elapsed the excess of imports
over exports would indicate a still larger amount
There was no apprehension to be entertained of the inter-
ruption of the general peace of the world, but he confessed
that he did not altogether find that confidence which he, for
one, fully entertained before certain events alluded to in the
Speech, and which had given to place the growing conviction in
this country of the impolicy of the course which had been pur-
sued. He believed that a cause which some years ago would
inevitably have produced a war would be repudiated by the
good sense of the present era as insufficient to
lead to such a consequence. He was -sure that
in a commercial nation like this powerful and
capable of great exertion in war, peace was not only desirable,
but necessary. He believed that the Conviction was deeply
routed in the minds of the people of this country, ;MI tho
ugh