The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-26 00:00:00

numbers employed upon the publictiro ks had passed Olg very quietly, and no disturbatieik.- tev( r was app
headed. It was impossible to alai • r the state of the
whole country, but in general_ th • stricts in which
these reductions had taken ply: perfectly quiet.
Major LATARD tbOyg.ht ig attacks which had
been made upoialieVoi.ertinle.tliaiere most unjustifiable. The Hon. Member for Shrewsbury had laid the blood
of the people upon the head of the Government, and
the Noble Lord who had lately spoken upon this subject
had laid the blood of the people upon the head of the
Noble Lord at the head of the Government. A jury
in Ireland had, by their verdict, made the Noble Lord
answerable for the lives of the people, but then they
were in a state of excitement at seeing the people star.
ving around them. He thought that these attacks should
cease, and the Government be allowed to proceed with
the Bill.
INFLUX OF PAUPERS INTO ENGLAND.
Lord SANDON wished to know whether greateg
freedom of action could be given to the law which one.
bled the authorities to remove the Irish paupers from
this country. These people were coming over by thou•
sands and tens of thousands, and unless some machinety
was introduced. for the purpose, it would become impose
sible to remove them from this country. There was 411 great unwillingness at present to remove any of these
persons, while proper provisions did not exist for these
in Ireland, but he thought that in Committee upon this
Bill a clause should be introduced for the purpose he
had mentioned.
Sir GEORGE GREY said that he bad received
some information from Liverpool as to the difficulty of
removing these people. There did not seem to be any
very general disposition to send them away, while means
did not exist for their relief in Ireland. The Govern*
meat however proposed to introduce a vagrancy
and when that Bill was introduced into the House it
would afford a fitting opportunity for the insertion of
any such clause in it.

IRISH PAUPERS.
Mr. SHAW wished toknow if the vast number of per•
sons returned as paupers coming fromlrelandwas not over—
stated, and if many of them were not persons who had
placed themselves on the list as paupers coming from Ireland, when in reality they had been chargeable upon. a district in England for some time before.
Sir GEORGE GREY said, that upon inquiry thw
returns would not seem to be rather overstated. About,
60,000 persons arrived annually from Ireland into Bris-
tol and Liverpool. About 20,000 were emigrants to
America, and the other 40,000 were spread over the
country, and became in time entitled to relief.
Mr. NEWDEGATE had not intended to say one
word on this subject, but he could not allow the obser-
vations of the Hon. Member for Carlow to pass unno-
ticed. He could not help thinking that the Hon. Mem-
ber had snatched an opportunity of making unjust and
severe reflections upon the Noble Lord the Member for
Lynn. After all the Members on that side of the Mouse
had determined not to continue the discussion, according to the suggestion of the Government, the debate had
been renewed by the Hon. Member, and an attack made
by him after it had been understood that the subject had
been dropped, and yet he complained of attacks being
made upon the Government from that side of the House.
Mr. CARDWELL wished to remark upon one fact
connected with the observations of the Recorder for
Dublin. He had read a letter from a stipendiary magis-
trate in Liverpool, stating that in spite of the influx of
paupers there, there was no desire to remove them if
some provision was made for their sustenance. The in-
flux of paupers was at the rate of 2,000 per day, and in a
few days a fever hospital capable of containing 400
would be ready. That showed that some measures were
being adopted for the relief of these people. The pro-
positions made by several Hon. Members, applied rather
to the removal of a technical difficulty, which was, in
reality, met by the spirit of the existing law.
Mr. P..SCROPE despaired of the Government being
able to solve the problem which laid before them, as to
the means of putting an end to the terrible state of
things which existed in Ireland, unless a sus-
pension of party attacks were made. The time of
the Government could not be occupied in answering
these attacks, instead of attending to the business before
the House.
Mr. GROGAN said that the Government had in-
formed the House that a Bill for mendicancy and
vagrancy was about to be introduced, but he hoped that
the House, in considering it, would not pass such a
measure as would throw the support of the poor of a
whole district upon a particular locality. He wished to
call the attention of the House to the charges brought
against that side of the House of unnecessarily attack-
ing the Government. It must be borne in mind that
twice in that day the subject had originated from the
other side of the House. If the Government could not
control their own friends how could they expect to go
on undisturbed? lie had observed that a great number
of officers had been appointed upon Relief Committees
in Ireland, and he wished to know how they were to
be paid ?
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the vagrancy Bill had
been prepared, but it would require a great deal of at-
tention on the part of the Government, and was likely
to require a great deal of consideration from the House.
The Bill would be shortly introduced, and if any Gen-
tleman_could suggest any plan for the better preserva-
tion of the public peace he would be happy to give it
every attention. With regard to the preservation of the
public tranquillity, the accounts which were received
showed that there was no great cause for fear upon that
head. He did not doubt that every gentleman connected
with Ireland would assist the Government in the pre-
servation of public tranquillity.—(Hear.)
Mr. CALLAGHAN said that he wished to say a few
words before going into Committee, for it was rarely the
opportunity was afforded to them of saying something.—
(Laughter.) There were very general complaints in
Ireland of the neglect of the Government in not pro-
viding seed for the land. In many instances the po-
tatoes kept for seed had rotted, or had been consumed
by the people, who were therefore wholly without seed.
Mr. BELLEW said, he thought there should be but
one feeling on the present occasion, and that to unite
for the carrying out of those measures which would be
most advantageous to the country.
Sir H. BROOKE said, he hoped that her Majesty's
Government would not supply the landlords of Ireland
with seed, for he thought that they should put their
hands in their own pockets on an occasion like the
present. He thought that her Majesty's Government
had done as much as they had a right to do.
Mr. DILLON BROWNE said he thought that there
would be greater distress next year in consequence of a
little money not having been expended in supplying the
people with seed in an emergency like the present. He
had received several communications from Mayo, deny-
ing the statements that had been made in that House as
to the disinclination of the people in that quarter to cul-
tivate the land. The majority of the people had not
seed to do so—the landlords would not give, and the
Government, under the circumstances, should do so.
Sir WALTER JAMES said, under the very difficult
circumstances in which her Majesty's Government had
been placed, he did think it to be his duty to state his
opinion that as far as every effort and energy went ail'
had been done to alleviate the famishing poor of Ire-
land.—(Hear, hear.) He thought that it would have
been right for other Hon. Members as well as the Noble
Lord at the head of her Majesty's Government to say
that every effort had been made to relieve thu poor of
Ireland. The Hon. Gentleman who had last spoken had
accused the landlords of Ireland of not having supplied
the, people with seed, but if they would look at some
correspondence that had taken place on this question he
might view the question in a different light. He held
in his hand a letter from a Mr. Mahon, who had offered
to supply his tenantry with seed, which they refused to
take. He must say that these circumstances were quite
sufficient to give a colour to the charges which Hon.
Gentlemen had brought forward. He was very sorry
to have been induced to prevent the House going into
Committee.

ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION BILL.
Mr. COLLETT said he wished to ask the Noble Lord
at the head of her Majesty's Government whether it
was his intention to create tour new bishops under the
Bill which he proposed to submit to the House?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that, in answer to the
Hon. Gentleman, he begged to state that on the first
Tuesday after the Easter holidays it was his intention to
bring the subject to which he alluded before the House,
and that it was intended to make some change.
POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL.
The discussion on this Bill was then resumed.
Mr. HAMILTON said he begged to say that he did
not understand the Noble Lord's observations to be any-
thing else than that hopes were held forth which it was
not the intention of her Majesty's Government to fulfil.
The House then went into Committee on the Bill.
. Mr. J. O'CONNELL moved that clause D, section
11, p. 4, which goes to enact that the number of ex
officio guardians of the poor shall be increased from one-
fourth to one-half of the whole number, be struck out. He
thought Hon. Gentlemen had been guilty of inconsistency
in introducing the preseet clause at all. It had been
stated that an extended poor-law would answer at pre-
sent, because the landlords of Ireland would not do their
duty without a Poor-law Act. Yet what did they
do ? They handed over to them the power of taxing
themselves to jest that extent they might wish. It,
was not to be supposed that landlords would
punish themselves for conduct of which they did not
admit themselves to be guilty, and that punishment
which it was the professed object of the Bill to inflict
was prevented from falling on the proper parties.
IZEi sd
businessoul
of the board of guardians would pass into the h
The ex officio guardians amounted to one-fourth of the
whole number at the present time. Besides they had
would
considerable interest from the property they possessed.
aaidnueidentth.
constituency,
stthietuepnrcorsed
anda arrangement
whole
createlieom c a
ands of
the ex-officio guardians. Ile did not thin • k
any case
whatever had been made out for the proposed increase
of the ex-o icio guardians. There had
cases of fraud or war.ton prodigalitybeen no
against swam elected guardians, that they should
now be ped. While they
_had regularly at-
tended to their duties, from their connexion with the
mass of the people, they were
better able to understand
their wants and provide fur them d
. hroughout Irean
tl►ere were 2,600 Protestant •t T l
maps rates, and but 410
Catholic magistrates. This would show how
the proposed arrangement would operate. It had
been already shown that this difference in
numbers operated must injuriously in the working
of boards of guardians. The Honourable Member
referred to the proceedings of the North and South
Dublin Unions, and other Irish unions, in illustration of
the bigotted conduct of the ex officio guardians under
If they, therefore, increased the
the present law.
number of these guardians the evils referred to would
Lord at the head of
be greatly increased. The Noble
the Government, in introducing the Bill, had expressed
e hope, that in future, parties in Ireland would be con-
ciliared towards each other, and would act for their
country's good. The sentiment was very creditable to
the Noble Lord, only he was sorry to say that
there was little ground to expect its realisation.
If he was required to give an illustration, he might refer