The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-17 00:00:00

,

THE NAVIGATION LAWS.

The Select Committee on the navigation-laws met yester-
day in Committee-room N 0.2. There were present Mr. Mil-
ner Gibson (chairman), Mr. Ricardo' Mr. Mitchell, Admiral
'
Dundas, Mr. Hume Mr. T. Baring, Sir it Peel, Mr. Lyall,
Sir George Clerk, the Hon. Mr. Liddell, Alderman Thom')
son, and Sir Howard Douglas.
The examination of Mr. M'Gregr was resumed.
By Sir Howard Douglas—He apprehended that the free
navigation to the sea of the river St. Lawrence, along with
the navigation of the river Richelieu, would not give the
naval ascendancy in the lakes tb the United States, because
the navigatian sof these rivers, particularly in those parts of
the. St. Lawrence from whin they were now excluded was

interrupted by shallows and rapids. The consequence would
be that most of the vessels descending the river St. Law-
rence would require to come by way, of those canals which
were exclusively British property and under British control.
The ascending of the river St. Lawrence of course was a
matter of still greater difficulty. He was aware that in the
war of the revolution the naval ascendancy of. this country
was maintained upon the lakes by carrying out vessels, in
frame from this country—carrying them up the St. Lawrence
and the Richelieu, shallow as they were, and putting them
together on the banks of the lakes; but he could not
admit that the small river craft that were likely to be used
by the Americans would tend to establish their naval
lower, as of course they would only be used for mercantile
purpoecs.
By .11r. Hume—He was aware that there was no connexion
between the navigation-laws and this subject, and that if the
navigation-laws were repealed to-morrow the navigation of
these rivers would remain exactly the same.
Charles Macarthy was then called in and examined.

By Mr. Ricardo--He was connected with the Customs De-
parlinent in Turk's Island, Bahamas. His chief duty was
to watch the imperial duties—the laws which were separate
and distinct from those which regulated the colonial taxa-
tion. He had often to prevent the landing of articles on
whick colonial duties would be paid. He would not prevent
the colonial duties from being levied if the goods were

landed ; but his business was to prevent the goods from
being landed.
Mr. Ricardo—Then you are appointed to hinder the colo-
nial trade?

Mr. Macarthy was not prepared to enter into the question
of hindrances. He wished to confine himself to facts.
Mr. Ricardo—But you are paid to hinder the colonial
trade ?

Sir George Clerk—You had better not put by whom he is
paid.
Mr. Macarthy wished to suggest to the Committee that
he had better not be examined upon general principles, but
upon questions of fact which came under his own knowledge.
Mr. Ricardo then withdrew his question.
Examination by Mr. Ricardo continued—The chief, in-
deed the only export trade of the island was in salt, which
was imported in British and American vessels, no foreign
vessels having ever come to take a part in it ; and of the two
the number of American vessels greatly preponderated.
There was a very great demand for this salt in the United
States, it being admitted to be the best in the world. It was
seldom that these vessels arrived direct from the United
States; as the foreign trade with the islands was not impor-
tant, and therefore they did not bring out cargoes exclusively
for these islands; but they generally touched at the great
gathering place for the American vessels in the \Vest Indies,
the Danish island of St. Thomas, which was a free port, and
whence they come to Turk's Island in ballast, as the naviga-
tion-laws did not allow them to bring to Turk's Island any
portion of a cargo which had not been brought from America.
They bad a few ships of their own—small craft. The popu-
lation of the island was about 2,500. There was a good deal
of smuggling attempted to be carried on between St. Thomas
and Turk's Island.

Mr. Ricardo—But the Americans are willing to pay the
duties if they were allowed by the navigation-laws.
Mr. Macarthy was not prepared to say whether they were
willing to pay the duties or not, but the fact was they were
not allowed. The payment for the salt he had mentioned
was made almost enti.ely in money, with the exception of a
few vessels that came direct from the United States to the
island with an assorted cargo. lie could not speak as to the
feelings of the merchants on the state of their trade, but he
apprehended it would be more agreeable to the merchants
there it they had a greater trade. The rules which the navi-
gation-laws applied to Turk's Island he supposed were the
same as those of other colonies, at least he had received no
special instructions on the subject.
By Alderman Thompson—Salt was the only article of ex-
port in Turk's Island. The imports were chiefly those that
were used for the subsistence of the people, • such as Indian
corn, wheat, flour, &c.; so that he presumed the balance of

trade was in favour of the island, from the fact of their being
paid in money. He thought that during the last year there
was a more than usually numerous arrival of vessels at the
island, though, being at home on leave, he had no documents
with him, and could not go into details. In 1845 the num-
ber of vessels arriving at the island amounted to 266. He
thought that three-sixths of these vessels Isere vessels arriv-
ing from St. Thomas, but he could not say that all these
were American. The customs duties of the island, arising
entirely from imports, only amounted to about 5001. per
annum. With regard to the grievances which the navigs-
tien-laws offered, he apprehended that the restiistion im-
posed upon foreign vessels arriving from St. Thomas, was a
considerable hardship, if not a grievance, because, small as
the population of the island might be, it pressed upon the
inhabitants of the island as grievously as though they had
been a large population, demanding a large supply. As the
law at present existed, a large proportion of vessels must
necessarily arrive in ballast, and could not bring those car-
goes to the island which they required, such as sugar, mo-
lasses, and spirits. There were occasionally British vessels
coining to the islands; but the Bahamas had no trade with
the British West Indies, on account of the expense; and they
and the Bermudas were the only islands that were permitted
to trade with foreign colonies. Their chief exports were from
St. Thomas, and from Porto Rico, in Cuba. Spanish ships
might certainly bring goods from Cuba, but, in point of fact,
they never did so.
By Mr. Baring—The price of a peculiar spirit called gin
in the. island, which was very different from the article
known under that name in England, was 1 dollar, equal to
4s. 2d. per dernisjohn,"bolding two gallons and a half, in St.
Thomas, while it was 3 dollars in the island of St. Thomas.
But upon the importation of this spirit there was a duty of
2s. 6d. per gallon of colonial duty, and of Is. per gallon of
imperial duty. The real difference of price, therefore, if
these duties were removed, between St. Thomas and Turk's
Island would be somewhere about 2s. per gallon.
By Admiral Dundas—There were no differential duties
uron spirits, &c., as brought in American rather than in
British vessels.

Mr. Samuel Browning, of the firm of Benjamin and Mark
Hume—Thente
re sa
in th fie rNmeir
Boyd, was next called in and examined.haildylarAgier. with South which
h was connected
It cVhai ebseTade, and they
were pretty extensive shipowners, at least in the colonial
and
sperm oil trade. He had had opportunities of noticing
the operation• of the navigation-laws in a great variety of
our colonies. The general tendency of those laws was
to limit foreign vessels from
bringing
bulky articles, such
as cotton, from such countries as South America.
If these articles were permitted to be exported in any ships,
with the chance of a return cargo,
the freights would be
lowered; and in foreign market s a very trifling difference
of price often made the difference between sale sale.
With regard to the effect of the repealethe
and no
navigation-lawsa .
would have upon British shipping, e
should
dui
t. wish before
.
those laws were repealed that thethe materials
employed in ship-building were removed; andon
if that were
done he apprehended the British shipowner would have no
cause of fear from any other nation whatever.
In practice
British ships successfully competed with foreign ships at the
present time. He might mention, that last summer he was
at Harlingen, in Holland, where he found that the ship-
builders of that town complained they were not able to com-
pete with British shipowners on account of the heavy taxa-
tion in Holland. He might add, that Dutch vessels had
recently arrived from Batavia in the London Docks with
sugar, and they had been offered high freights to go to
America for bread-stuffs, but they declined, because they
were not able to compete with British shipping. He thought,
with regard to the price of building ships that there were no
ships in the world that could compete with the ships built in
British North America. A new process had lately beenlin-
troduced there of salting the timber employed in building
vessels, which had the effect of preserving them for a
long time. He considered that ships could be built
in British North America cheaper than in the north
of Europe, so that the British shipowner had much
more to dread from the competition in our own colonies
than from the north of Europe. Even the Ame-
ricans suffered from this =petition. When he was
at New Orleans, in 1839, he found the shipowners there corn-
plainitig much of the competition of the ships produced by
our colonies ; and since then be was aware that their num-
bers had considerably increased. He believed that the ex-
pense of building a ship in the British colonies, and sending
her out to sea with all her equipments, would be about
101. per ton. With regard to the competition between
British and American vessels, be was aware that in China,
Singapore, Manila and generally in the open foreign mar-
kets of the world, there was a :preference given to British
vessels over American. The trade between this country and
the United States stood thus according to a Parliamentary
paper recently published :—ln 1836 the number of British
and colonial vessels trading to the United States amounted
to 931 ships, measuring 82,453 tons; and in 1846 their
numbers had increased to 386, measuring 223,676 tons, being
an increase of 171 per cent. in British vessels during the last
ten years. The number of American vessels employed in
the same trade in 1836 was 512, measuring 236,000 tons;
and in 1846 they had increased to 741, measuring 444,442
tons, being an increase of only 90 per cent. These returns
he considered supported the opinion he formerly gave as to
the preference shown to British colonial vessels in New
Orleans.
By Mr. Liddell—He admitted that if the navigation-laws
were repealed, freights would be lowered; but as he sup-
posed, at the same time, that ships would be built cheaper
Iran at present, he thought shipowners would still have the
-sire profit as now. He had considered the question of
cages, and he thought that in the event of the navigation
has. being repealed, it would be good policy in this country
to admit fkireign seamen to be naturalised after three years
hitliful service. If greater facilWes were allowed for that
meurali,ation than at present, and at the sane time not re-
• ' foreign seamen to engage in hostilities against their
Ituringit that foreigners would gladly take
own country, be though
advantage of such an arrangement, and that would not re-
duce the wages of Blitish seamen, but would raise the wages
f ' seamen in foreign countries, and thus place all upon a
evel. As to the victualling of ships, he thought that
thitish vessels would be better victualled than at pre-
..nt, so that British seamen would be more comfort-
, they %%ere nww. With regard to foreign thip-
Nrig'ut:-., if they were cheaper, he would import them by
ill means. In America, Holland, and Portugal, the ship-
srights wrought hard; but in this country, owing to the
,ffect of a combination among the workmen, there was a