The Sun.
London, England, 1841-09-21 00:00:00

T 1111? 5 ovnON TUE 3 SDAY SEPTEMBER 21, 18413
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he would request the attention of the House
to a short explanatory statement. For a long period
there ha I existed between this country and the Ottoman
empire a treaty of commerce, by which there was a duty of
3 percent. on exports and imports. It was known that great
abuses ea isted, and that these duties were subject to heavy
internal charges. In order to remove. this grievance, in
1836 a treaty was entered into, the object. of which was,
instead of a duty of 3 per cent. to impose a duty 01'12 per
cent. ort imports on the Turkish Treasury, and a duty
of five yaw cent. on exports • for all internal taxes
were put an end to. He was aware, that with
respect to Turkey Proper, that treaty was of
great %Tale and very important to commercial interests,
but the treaty could only have been entered into by
persons having an imperfect idea of the state of
'Turkey and its dependencies, because, in many of
them in which the internal duties were levied,
the old g-:uty of three per cent. was not paid.
In the provinces of the Danube the treaty
was alt agether a dead letter, while in Syria it was
grievously oppressive. It must have been to this
treaty that Prince- liftatternich adverted in a despatch
of the 20th April, 1841, in which he said that Hite
was not altogether deceived, the Porte would have to aban-
don, in the greater part of its' dominions, the mode of
receipt recently introduced into saveral of them.
It won- Id seem that the Turks had imposed upon the inha-
bitant?. of Syria enormous duties, contrary to the argu-
ments entered into by her Majesty's Government.
His I- lon. and Gallant Friend below, in an address to
the S yrians, dated August, last year, said " The Allied
Powers have engaged to recommend the Sultan to make
an arrangement which will your condition
happy ali prosperous. Lord Ponsonby wrote that the,
Porto had engaged to make a remission of taxes. Tho
Yoble Lord the Member fiz Tiverton himself said
t'ie honour of the British, Crown requires that the
a-omises made to Syria . -by the British GovernMent
abould be fulfilled." Yar. Wood certainly went very
far indeed in his promises, and in some of
his despatches was very extraordinary language ; for
this Turkish Envoy of a Turkish Government, called
;upon the inhabitants of Syria, in the name of the
:Koran, which he entitled " the Holy Book and the Sacred
:Law," to rebel, and Lord Ponsonby said so great was his
'confidence in Mr. Wood, that he said, "I have instructed
:Mr. Wood to consider himself absolutely free from the
:authority- and control of everybody in Syria, in his oxen-
ti on of 'die duties of the trust reposed in him by the Porte."
The N oble Lord, in answer to the complaints which Caine
to hi, a of the vexatious proceedings ot the Turkish
trowas towards the Christians, required Lord Ponsonby
to give full satisfaction to them, and Lord Pensonby
stated that the Porte was ready to take any measure for
that purpose. Now, the Syrians had suffered much.
Their towns had been destroyed ; their fields had been
devastated, and numbers of them had perished. He re-
joiced that his Noble Friend was present who was cogni-
sant oF, and a party to, the promises given. His object in bringing forward the subject was to as'.; the. Right
?Honourable Baronet opposite whether her Majesty's Go-
•vernment were aware that the duties had beeu increase-
by the Turkish authorities'in Syria, notwithstandit a e all
the engagements to which hehad referred; and it • ther any measure had been taken to (drain • whe:
those grievances ? •
Sir ROBERT PEEL said the -
oble Lord Opposite 4 redress o:
would be better able to answer •
self.-.(A lanah.) He belie- a thed
that in 1838 a treaty question than him-
was made,
which for "r:
tuted a duty of 9 per o
ith
us internal monopolies ssti-
ba!en previously ar
cent. upon exports. There had
continued to be' . export duty of 3 per cent., which
ievied,
which British
and at present the whole duty to S'abjects. were liable was a duty of 12 per
cent, on ea,pa,rts. In some cases he apprehended that the
operation of the levy of that duty might have borne
hardly ".pon
the native, inhabitants, comparing the pre-
s•, 'amount of duty to .which they had formerly been
a
aoject. Bat, upon the whole, he apprehended that the
substitution of a duty of 9 per cent, in lieu of the
various monopolies and exactions which had before
,pre •
vailed, was an advantage to British commerce.. Taking
Syria generally, lie apprehended there could be
no doubt that the operation of the treaty had been
satsifactory. Complaints were made by the inha-
bitants of Syria that they were subject to new impositions.
He believed there had been Commissioners appointed by
the Porte, who -had been in communication with the in-
habitants of Lebamin. Those people had demanded ex-
emption from the operation of :he new duties for a period
of three years, in consequence of the assurances which
had been given them by the Turkish authorities. That
question still remained unsettled. It was, however, un-
der consideration. He (Sir R. Pepl) could only say
that there would be every dispositioa' on the part of the
GoVernment of this country to use 'their influence with
Turkey, in order that the advantages .which the Syrians
had aught to expect from the interference of British
authority would be obtained. The Hon. Gentleman
himself must see that the object of the operations in
Syria being to restore Turkish independence, it was not
in our power to interfere beyond certain limits. We could
only interfere in the matter of a British subject being
injured, or in order to induce the Porte to fulfil the en-
gagements into which it had entered. The object being
to r. store Ottoman power when no such reasons as those
existed, it was no easy =ltar for foreign Powers to in-
sist on the Porte observing 'Pertain conditions with re-
spect to its own subjects. He repeated, that all the in-
fluence which Government could use in preventing great
chancres taking place to the injury of Syria would be ex-
erted to the utmost.

Lord PALMERSTON said, that though the course
was not a regular one, yet as he had something to do in
these matters, he would make a few observations. He
knew well the feelings of his Hon. Friend in favour
of Mehemet Ali, and it was natural for ihim to have
some anxiety on the state of Syria. The Hon. Gentle-
man was naturally anxious that the treaty of 1838
would not be extended to Egypt, because its operation
would reduce those finances which Mehemet Ali applie,'
to purposes not agreeable to the Ottoman GoverP.:Aent.
With respect to the people of Lebanon, regt!latens were
entered into to prevent their being oppresa,u.
In reply to some observations turn Lord C. HA-
MILTON,
Lord PALMERSTON, 'aid that Mr. Wood was act-
ing under the authority ',I Lord Ponsonby, but in obedi-
ence to orders from ',7ne Turkish authorities.
SUPPLY.
On the I..'irder of the Day for going into Committee of
Supply 'being read,
.1.1. r. S. CRAWFORD said that he thought it neces-
sary to inquire into the distresses of the country before
any grants of money were made. He thought it neces-
sary to make an appeal on this subject again to the
Right Hon. B:4-onet. He was the more tempted to do
so, on accour of a communication which he had received
that moiming from Rochdale. In that letter he was in-
formed that there were in Rochdale 136 familik living at
the rate of 6d. per head per week, 291 at 10d., 508 at
Is., 1,850 at ls. Gd., 1;500 at ls. 9d.. and 812 at 2s, 2d.
—(Hear, hear.) Five-sixths of the whole population
were almost without blankets. When such statements were
placed in the hands of a representative, it was his duty to
call the attention of the House and the Government to
tip:v.,. The Right Hon. Baronet required time to con-
siler how these evils were to be remedied. He would not
object to give him time, but he thought five months too
long in the distressed condition of 'the country,(Hear,
hear.) If the Right Hon. Gentleman could not give the
people permanent relief, he would at all events alleviate
their sufferings by giving them cheap food.—(Hear,
hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet claiMed also a renewal
of the new Poor. law Bill, which diminished to the. poor
the means of obtaining relief.—(Hear, hear.) His majo—
rides could only sustain him so long as they were in ac-
cordance with the feelings of the nation, to which, if they
were adverse, the greater the majorities the greater his
future weakness. The declaration of the Duke of
Wellington, that no reform was wanted, produced
the former Reform Bill. The declaration of the
Minister that the people should not be relieved, and that
their distress should not be inquired into, would produce
a further reform. The conduct of Ministers would force
the conviction on the people that there could be no re-
form until that House was further reformed. He (Mr.
C.) did not desire to advance the interest of any party, or
even to force any particular measure on the Government.
What he complained of was the delay of five month..,, and
the indefinite postponement of relief. He would suggest
that there should be a short adjournment of the House, to
enable the Right Hon. Baronet to decide on his measures;
but if that Right Hon. Gentleman persisted in the course
which he had indicated, he (Mr. C.) would record his
protest by saying " No " to the motion for a Committee
of Supply.
Sir R. PEEL could assure the Hon. Gentleman and
the House that 'he heard with the deepest regret any
statement of the suffering of any portion of the people.
At the same time he had a strong impression that it was
a very difficult matter to provide for such distress by any
x,obtlahlidi:ibl oo:ititte) a anyay
legislative enactments, and he would be afraid that it
would only be conducing to deceive the people were he
t
gradualst
hnech (hnoaiLdee.a, hopeltiiooArnaltlfioortnhiiemnyptcrhooeuvsledtualten otsf,
slotwochiiedethyo
cd_
ti atnihsoi liendsyt
stet
could - net by legislation at once improve the con-
f consistently with his duty purchase the acquiescence of
the Hon. Member to the motion before the Chair, by
holding Out any sneh false hopes.
-Mr. THORNELY was sorry to hear the reply of the
Right Hon. Baronet., for every branch of
our fmanu-
an acturese
wo u was
ih in
infi n a state of the utmost depression,
y d h nowtlditel' greater pleasure, wait
there till February in an attempt to ameliorate the con-
dition of the people, than adjourn till that period with- •
out affording any relief. Comparing the weekly consump-
tion of raw cotton in the Liverpool market in 1840 and
the present time, it showed a diminution of one-sixth,
and that within the short space of
pornoep32•seiatr2oef
had
e
found that practical men, irrespective of political opi-
nions,
late Government mere
all
convinced
would t tend ctlhat tgreatlyhe
to relieve the trade
of the country. There was not less than 1,600,000
bond, which, at Bs. duty,
quarters of foreign
to
would-yield to the revenue 640,0001.,
but according
no lwr.:•e than 80,0001. to the as
the present at the present duty ofTlrse.,
uwrouldN)v-hieillde
Hear hear, and cheers.)
enhanced by the, larger duty.—(
the price to the consumer would not hayv'e been
In his opinion, this wheat would not have cost the
ear,
have gained upwards of half a million
con-
sumers one shilling more, although theof
money.--(Hear,
hear.)
mai:aged these averages. He wa
hear.) GEntlemen in the corn trade foresaw,stold
in andAugust pro-
bably9th or 16th instant, wheat would come out
last, on the Corn Exchange at Manchester,
otlfiabtoonndthaet.
ls. per quarter ; and the consequence of this
expectation
was, that all the ordinary measures of commercial pro-
Bence were set aside, and corn was procured from abroad
to any extent, and at any cost. It was usual to fix the
duty according to the value of the article. But let them
look at the present rate of duty on corn. Wheat
was at Is. per quarter, barley 6s. 4d., rye 10s. 4d.,
oats, 12s. 4d., and peas 's. Then let them look at
the operation of the Corn-laws as respected the United
States. It was quite clear that Gentlemen who thought
in August last the duty would be now at Is. per quarter,
would be able to bring in corn from the nearest ports in

Europe, but it was impossible for the United States to
send in a single bushel, and therefore what advantage to
them would be the low duty? We were new in treaty
with the United States, to put. there eft ft rooting with
the most favoured imam WO could not then charge
her a higher rated dots'Y for her agricultural productions
than the Continent of Europe; but from the effect of
dietance, they would be completely shut out from corn-
mercial intercourse as regarded corn and flour, when their
object would be to take advantage of the Corn•clutee 110
submitted these considerations to the House: The Ame-
rican tariff would reach its lowest point in October next.
It would then be taken again into consideration. Unless
in the interval, the Government of this country would
put the productions of the -United States on a reason-
able footing---(Hear, henr.)e-they might be perfeetly
certain that the duty on the importation of British
manufactories would be greatly increased; and they
would probably lose the only opportunity they might
ever have to gain such access to that market as: we
ought to have.--(Hear, hear.) On the question of the
Sugar Ditties, when the late Chancellor of the Ex-
.eheener proposed to. reduce the duty on foreign sugar,
the Noble Lord the Member for Liverpool (Lord San-
don) carried an amendment against the reduction, the
main reason assigned for which was, that encourage-
ment should be given to the production of free labour
in opposition to that of slave labour. But the merchants
of Liverpool seemed not to be of the same opinion
with the Noble Lord, for it was a curious fact that all
the sugar refiners in Liverpool had ceased to refine
sugar, the produce of the British colonies in the West
Indies, and. were all carrying on a vereeextensive, and,
as he believed, lucrative trade in refining foreign sugar
in bond.—(Hear, hear.) In one week 1,100 boxes of
Cuba sugar were taken in by the merchants of Liver-
pool to be relined. The price of raw sugar in bond was
2d. per lb., when refined it was 4d, per lb., and all the
rest of the price was' duty paid to Government for the
sake of monopoly, and to exclude the foreign and cheap
article.—(Hear, hear.) He was quite certain that if her
Majesty's late Government had carried their proposition
for a 12s. duty on foreign sugars, not one single week
would have elapsed in which the grocer and the
refiner would not have ticketed foreign sugar.
The country would have been benefitted by the
reduction in price, and the revenue would have largely in-
creased. In conclusion he (Mr. Thornely) begged to
observe that he had passed through commerciallife, and
had retired from business. He had never entertained
any other commercial principles than those of free trade,
and all observation perfectly convinced him of their
soundness. He had long seen the working of these prin-
ciples of monopoly in this country, and when he went into
the Committee on Import Duties he certainly foresaw
what facts would be elicited in that examination, and he
was not, therefore, surprised at the effect the report of
that Committee 'had had upon this and foreign coup•
tries.—(Hear, hear.) He knew that it was read exten-
sively, and with delight, in the United States ; but they
said, 'whenever you act on these principles you may
then safely hold up your heads, and ask for free trade
with other countries ; but whatever may be your prin-
ciples, while your practice is so injudicious, you have
little claim on the sympathies and liberality of other na-
tions.—(Hear.) He would only further say, that, being
as early in his attendance at the House as any other
Member, he had heard the prayers read that day at the
table ; one of' which was that they " might lay, aside all
private interests, prejudices, and personal atflxtions ;"
and he would hope that this was done by every man on
his crossing the door of that House ; for whether a man
of that House was a landowner, manufacturer, or mer-
chant, he had a duty to perform to his constituents, his
country, and mankind, and he ought, therefore, to lay
aside these feelings.—(Hear.) He begged to urge these
considerations on Hon. Gentlemen opposite. He also
than'ked her Majesty's late Ministers for what they had
clone. They had attempted to open the doors of com-
mercial freedom for our benefit and that of all mankind.
The Right. Hon. Gentleman (Sir 11. Peel) had now a
similar Opportunity, and if he would avail himself of it
he might set at defiance all who looked to their private
interests, and do great good to the people of this country,
for which they would ever after be eminently grateful.
Mr. YORKE said immediate relief for the distress of
' the country was their primary object, and the responsi-
bility of the Right llon. Baronet opposite should also be
taken into consideration. The late Government were
beaten upon distinct principles distinctly proposed. The
Right Hon. Baronet voted against; those principles, and,
therefore, it was incumbent upon him not to •leave the
House-without proposing a substitute for them. It was
with unaffected regret that he he' had heard the Right
Hon. Baronet intimate his intention to propose measures
-all excellent in their way—for the ventilation of the
House, the centralization of royal vegetables, the
union of royal demesnes, and the extension of the
New Poor-law, to the supreme detestation of which
so Many Hon. Gentlemen opposite ,were indebted for
their seats—(Hear, hear)—and having done this, it sent
the country gentlemen home for the vacation.—(Hear,
hear.) He feared the Right Hon. Baronet, who ob-
jected to let them proceed then, would find himself
equally unable, when they reassembled, to provide a re-
medy for evils which might, in the interim, greatly in-
crease.---(Hear.)
On the question, that the Speaker do leave the Chair,
the House divided, when there appeared—
For the motion
Against
Majority --- 114
The Houso then went into a Committee of Supply.
A vote of 54,0001., for defraying the expenses of the
insurrection in Canada, was agreed to.
A vote of 60,0001., for completing the Civil Contin-
gencies, being proposed,
Colonel SIBTHORP said he trusted that the time of
jobbing was past away along with the late Ministry. He
could not avoid referring to the expenses attendant on
the appointment of a Noble and Learned Lord to all-
, '3udicate for about seventeen days on a few Chancery suits
in Ireland, to say nothing of these other jobs which
filled the civil contingencies and miscellaneous- estimates
for the last ten years. He saw a grant to an Hon. Mem-
ber, towards whom he entertained no objection. He ad-
mitted ho was a gentleman of great assiduity and talents,
and it was not he, but those who made the appointment,
that were to blame. He alluded to the appointment of the
Hon. Member for Bolton, then Member for Kilmarnock,
who for two years five months and six days held a consi-
derable salary, in conjunction with another gentleman,
for duties connected With an inquiry into the state of fo-
reign trade. The official return, granted on a motion
made by him (Colonel Sibthorp) showed that the ex-
penses of that appointment amounted to 7,159/. 15s. Ode
and all that money was for four or five reports, which
might be very good, but which he (Colonel Sibthorp)
did not read, nor did he intend to read it. Of the late
Government, however, as it was-defunct, he would ob-
serve the old adage de mortuis nil nisi bonum.
Mr. WILLIAMS trusted the Hon. and Gallant Colo-
nel would pursue the same course towards his own party,
as that which he joined him (Mr. Williams) in pursuing
towards the late Ministry when in office. The Hon. and
Gallant Colonel formed an exception to his party when
they supported the late Government in any extravagance.
He (Mr. Williams) would not allow the present vote to
pass without culling the attention of Government to some
of the items, in the hope that when those pay-
ments came round again they might see the
justice of omitting some of them. He thought that not
a few of them were perfect masters of the public mo-
ney. He would first beg attention to the outfits of am-
bassadors. He thought that Government would find

many competent persons to fill those offices for the et1;o-
Itunents of them without any extra expense for outfits.
There was one item of 31.9.1. paid to the Marshal of the
Ceremonies for packing pictures for the service of the
Embassy at Paris. He objected to this expenditure,
because the revenue could not afford it ; and if more
taxation was to be raised, Gentlemen would find the
inconvenience of it, as recourse must be had for that pur-
pose to the class to which Hon. Gentlemen belonged.
Other items were 57e1. expenses attendant on the visits
of distinguished personages; 4601., expenses connected
with the Tower of London ; 4601, amount of gratuities
paid to officers of'the Court of Exchequer ; 3871. 16s. 6d.
expense of appointing Mr. Poulett Thompson, now Lord
Sydenham, to be Captin-General over British North
America ; and, lastly, there was an item of 1,4551.25. 4d.
paid to sundry persons, as of her Majesty's bounty. He
should like to know what that was?
The CHAIRMAN then put the question that 60,0001.
be granted to her Majesty for completing the Civil con-
tingencies to the 31st of March, 1842, when
Lord J. RUSSELL said that with respect to Ambas-
sadors and Ministers abroad, lie should not think that
the expenses of their outfit ought to be objected to. It
was allowed for a series of 3-ears, and he thought it a
very proper expense. .If they appointed none but men
of considerable fortune, why, then they might not make
such grants ; but if they appointed men of considerable
talent and small income, who might not be able to com-
mand the necessary sum for an outfit, then it bacame a
very proper • expense ; and to make any distinction
between individuals would be invidious. With

respect to the Governor-Generalship of Canada,
he believed so far from having derived any advantage
from that situation, Lord Sydenham had expended a part
of his own private fortune in consequence of accepting it.
In cases of that kind numbers were found willing to ac-
cept the situation from ambition and the desire of public
service ; but he did not think that, because such a desire
prevailed, the provision should be made inadequate to
the expenses. With regard to the services of 1)r. Bow-
ring, they hal already been discussed, and it was not
necessary for him to refer to them again.
Lord C. HAMILTON said, as he understood that
certain passages had.becn eut out of 1)r. Bowring's Re-
port, he would be glad to be informed bj the Noble
Lord opposite whether that statement was correct ?
Lord PALMERSTON replied that he certainly had
cut out several passages, amongst which was the expres-
sion of " sovereign," as applied to Mehemet Ali, and
several eulogiums upon his Administration, but he had
removed no part of the statistical information.
The vote was then agreed to.
Majesty
toe mcoomtiponletethatitieswl,o6rsi.cts/.011.0
tsh.ebvearigoruasnpteudbltioc her
O
de-
partments,

Mr. WILLIAMS said he could not but take that op-
portunity of referring to the unnecessary expense of
malntaining the various palaces. There were in all nine
royal palaces and residences. He thought some of those
palaces inii,ht.be closed Without any inconvenience to her
Majesty. Plhe people of England had no desire to control
her of any anything tending to her comfort or happiness;
but there were several palaces which she never saw, and
another was kept solely for the accommodation of foreign
sovereigns. He hoped her Majesty's Government would
give their attention to this subject, and in this hope he
would not.propose any reduction.
Mr. WAKLEY said, although the remarks of the
Hon. Member were very useful, he was afraid they would
be of no avail. There was no doubt that the expenditure
was very extravagant. One would suppose, from the es-
mates, that there was no distress existing amongst the
people. But who Was to blasue? It, appeared to him that
it was entirely owing to the wantonness of that House in
voting the public money. Immediately the votes were
proposed the majority of the Members left their seats,

A change having taken niaCe in the Administration of the
country, it,appeaeed to it that they il-ere bound to
re:Whit patiently to what was proposed. It; after a fair
trial had been given to the Government, these cur-
tailments were not made, which the people had a right
to expect, it would be for them then to state their
disapprobation. That House,' es it was then constituted,
Ives the offspring of the Noble Lord (Lord John Russell's)
will, Who althottgli solicited again and again had said
hb further refoem wee needed, and how could he com-
plain of the result ? There was one sum in the esti-
mates to which he could not help alluding, namely I,OOC/
r the expenses of the Ambassador in proceeding to
Frankfort. No one could contend that such a sum was
necessary. He did not complain of the manner in which
the foreign affairs in general had been administered.
He believed that the policy of the Noble Lord (Palmer-
ston) had placed England in a prouder position than she
had ever occupied at any former period.—(Hear, hear.)
But he thought if the Noble. Lord were to give the
House the result of his experience he would give the
House a list of many expenses which might be reduced
in the foreign service. He trusted that the present Ad-
midistration would do all in their power to reduce the
expenditure of the country. - •
Mr. FIELDING said he was astonished at the lan-
guage of the Hon. Member.—(Hear, hear.) His con-
stituents
distress
him that they could not continue in their
under distress
oistre and ssictntil Febrhary next. They laboured
Poverty too great to be endured; yet
no assurances were given of relief. His Hon. •Friend
he was sure could not be aware of the state of Lan-
eushiye. The best workmen in the manufacturing
districts were leaving England to seek employment
the
erozlrerig(nles ofar hear.) What he required was, that
the
eaipd he
eoplevia should
quite he considered.ready
to
Mr. WAKLEY
agree in
people, but why was not that remedy proposed ? Why
did not the Hon. Gentleman propose such a remedy him.
self if he knew what those suiferines were, and if he was
not prepared with such remedy he ought to apply to
others.
After a few words from Mr. FIELDEN,
Mr. EWART observed that the remedy of the Hon.
Member for Finsbury appeared to consist in the word
" patience," but in his (Mr. Ewart's) opinion, if the
country were to adopt that remedy the Hon. Gentleman
would soon hold an inquest on the' patient. —(Laughter.)
He stated that the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of
the Administration would not find his bed one of roses,
but he (Mr. Etvart) thought that the lion. Gentleman
would not make it one of thorns.—(Hear, hear, and
laughter.) He must say, that while he was ready to
make fair allowance for the Right Hon. Baronet, he
thought the time was come when he should be ready-
with a remedy.—(Hear, hear.) The distress of the
country would.not permit them to wait • much longer,
notwithstanding the eloquent homily and the " patience"
of the Hon. Member for Finsbury. He rejoiced that
the several parks were thrown open to the public!, and
that the public were availing themselves of the advan-
tage. Ile trusted that Richmond Park would be thrown
open to all persons, and he saw no reason for its being
enclosed. With respect to the others, he thought it
would be highly advantageous they should be also made
available for the public accommodation.
After a few words from Mr. TUFNELL,
Mr. WAKLEY said he would adopt the suggestions
of the Hon. Gentleman, and give the best advice he
could to . the Member for Tamworth.—(Ministerial
cheers.) But he did not think that Right lion. Gentle-
man should be pressed to propose measures without
being allowed time to consider them.—(Hear, hear.) He
did not understand the Right Hon. Gentleman required
five months, but he understood that all he required was
time, and he considered that was but a fair demand on
the part of the Right Hon. Gentleman.—(Hear, hear.)
But if those remedies were necessary, why should they
wait for the Executive to propose them ? He thought it
highly inexpedient to leave the introduction of those
measures entirely to the Executive. But, at all events,
they had no right to cast reproaches on those Gentlemen
who gave time to the Executive, when they were not
themselves prepared with any remedy. That was only
shifting the blame off their own shoulders.. He would
like to ask what would be the consequence now, if the
proposition of the late Government was the law? Why,
they would be paying at this moment a duty of Bs. in-
stead of ls.—(Ministerial cheers.) It was not fair of•
the Hon. Member for Oldham to arraign others because
they differed from him in opinion.—(Hear, hear.) If
theft Honourable Gentleman was prepared with a
a measure, well and good g but if not, he saw no reason
why they should refuse time to the Member for Tem-
worth. It was, in his situation, but a reasonable re-
quest, and he (Mr. Wakley) thought it would be un-
just to refuse it.—(Cheers.) That injustice was nothing
to him, but It was a great deal to the people.—(Hear,
hear.) They requited. the Right Hon. Baronet to come
down with crude and undigested propositions ; but he
(Mr. Wakley) would not lend himself to any factious
opposition, nor paeticipate in it.—(Ministerial cheers.)
Mr. WILLIAMS could not refrain from expressing
his surprise at the altered opinions of the Hon. Gentle-
mtn.—(liette, hear.) There had been a time when he
and the Hon. Gentleman agreed on most points, and he
trusted they were not going to disagree now. He had
offered himself as a great State doctor, but he was sur-
prised at his doctrines. The Hon. Gentleman appeared
to he satisfied with, and was going to join, those who had
been abusing the real remedy-.—(Hear.)
Sir R. ING'LIS did not wish to obtrude himself upon
the very pretty quarrel between the Hon.- Gentleman
who seemed dying en the other side, and the other Hon.
Gentleman who still survived upon his—(Laughter)—
but he rose in reference to what had fallen from the
Hon. Member for Dumfries. That Hon. Member seemed
to him to take an erroneous view of the subject relating
to the Royal Parks. He appeared to forget that as long
ite the Crown possessed its hereditary revenues it never
came to Parliament to defray the 'expense of maintaining
them, and he thought that it should be as little expected
that the Crown Parks ought to be opened to the public
tie those which belonged 'to private persons. He would
ask the Member for Coventry, who seemed to have as-
sumed the place of the late Member for Kilkenny, whe-
ther, as long as the Crown remained in possession of its
own revenues, the care of its parks devolved upon the
Parliament ? and if they now refused the care of those
Parks and Palaces it would be a violation of the compact
with the Crown.

After a few words from Mr. EWART the vote IA ai
agreed to.

-5,000/. was voted fo defraying the expenses of the
works connected with Aingston harbour.
2.68(1. 10s. was voted for the repairs of the Holyhead
road and harbour, and the Liverpool roads.
On the vote of 21,0001. being put for defraying. the
expenses of the building connected with the British
Museum.

Mr. HAWES said he regretted that that magnificent
portion of the British Museum containing the library
was still closed to the public. He had heard it stated
that the reason of its being closed was to enable the
librarian to catalogue the books ; but if he was rightly
informed, it would be kept closed after the cataloguing
had been completed, because it was considered that per*
sons passing through would cause such a dust as would
injure the books. For his own part he did not think
that such would be the base, and he hoped the Trustees,
two of whom he then saw in the House, would take the
subject into their consideration of opening the library to
the public.
Dr. BOWRING wished to know when the catalogue
would be completed, and whether it would be printed ?
Sir. R. PEEL stated that it would be completed as
soon as possible. He thought it right that the public
should have access to all the works in the British
Museum, but he did not see the necessity of persons
being permitted to pass through the rooms.
Dr.BOWRING obserle ', that all the libraries abroad
were open to the public.
Sir R. INGLIS agreed with the Right Hon. Baronet,
at the head of her Majesty's Government, that the
library of the British Museum ought not to be made
a passage room. With reference to what had fallen

fr;in the Hon. Member for Bolton, he would venture to
say, that that Hon. Member had never seen ten persons
at a time in the Vatican, or the Library Royale in
Paris.

After a few observations from Mr. STUART WORT-
LEY, and Mr. EWART, the vote was agreed 'to-.
41841. 10s. was voted to complete the sum necessary
to defray the present temporary accommodation for
offices for both Houses of Parliament.

15,46C1. was vDted to complete the sum necessary to
carry en the works connected with the New Houses of
Parliament.

15,000/. was voted for the completion of the Model
Prison, after a few observations from Mr. WILLIAMS.
3,5001. was voted to repair and complete prisons.
8441. 10s. was voted to promote a museum for the
economical study of geology.
2,500/. was voted for erecting a hall for the General
Assembly. of the Church, of Scotland in Edinburgh.'
On the vote being put for the sum of 25,0004 for com-
pleting the sum necessary for defraying the expenses and
improvements of the Caledonian Canal;
Mr. WILLIAMS objected to the vote on the ground
that it was part of the sum of 200,000/. recommended
to be expended by a Committee, of which he was a
member. In that Committee be had strongly objected
to the expenditure of such a sum ; another Member
considered the sum might b~ well applied, and the Chair-
man gave his casting vote in favour of the recommend-
ation. The Committee had written to Dublin, Belfast,
Liverpool, Bristol, Hull, and several other ports, but
not one of them thought the proposed improvement of
the Canal would be of the slightest advantage to trade.
The only answers that were favourableit tomuthste proposi-
tiongreatly were from three Scotch ports.—(A laugh.) If
itnheereassteeatilnlett:itgnsnualveerexpeenndliptie employed, it
it would be at
least five times greater than the present income. What
he wanted was, that the Government should send down
some engineers, and other persons, in whom they had
confidence. but not belonging to Scotland—(A laugh)—
and the works would never be undertaken. The Eight
Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer would find himself
300,040/. richer than if those useless works were gone
importance
Scotland,
andto
support it.
on with. If the
Treasuryccuatni
natlies wasog.
it,ohefa
it
tco 0 nut,- (r.!),,
ISectSotitirl:lelnt(. ports
I,lEtEatniLidedoubted whether Scotland would accept
the offered boon.—(Laughter.) He would have no he-
sitation in postponing the vote till next Session, and, in
the meantime, he would assure the House that a strict
and impartial inquiry should be instituted by persons not
locally interested. If it were found to be useless, he
would not hesitate to recommend that it should be aban-

doncd.
Sir G. CLERK denied that the canal was a work
which had been taken in hand for the benefit of Scot•
land. It was brought forward and pressed by the late
Lord Colchester, Mr. Hawkins Browne, and Mr. Smith,
of Norwich, not one of them being natives of tho coun-
try. Such undertakings ought always to be left to the
enterprise of individuals. Companies could much easier
keep down the expense than the Government. He was
happy to be able to inform the Committee that within
these few days there had been a renewal of the proposi-

tion to take the canal from the hands of the Govern-
, tnent,,andif, Unfortunately, that project failed, he would
bate no hesitation in recommending the abandonment of
the whole concern.
The vote was then withdrawn.
Sir G. CLERK then proposed that the sum of 2.5,000/.
be granted to her Majesty fur completing the sum ne-
cessary for the payment of the salaries and expenses of
the two Houses of Parliament.
In answer to a question from Mr. THORNELY,
Sir G. CLERK said the Sergeant-at-Arms attending
the House of Lords had a deputy, but he peformed the
duties generally personally.
After a few words from Dr. BOWRING, which were
not heard in the gallery, the vote was agreed to.
2G,3OCL were then voted to defray the expenses of the
offices in her Mtgesty's Treasury.
On the motion of Sir .G. CLERK that the sum of
10,750/. he granted for the expenses of the Home De-
partment,
Colonel SIBTHORP took that occasion to complain of
the appointment of Mr. Vizard to the office of Solicitor
to the Home-office, as he was at the same time Secretary
to the Commissioners of Bankruptcy, with a salary of
1,20 A a year. He begged to ask whether it was the in-
tention of the present Government to cancel that appoint-
ment or retain Mr. Vizard in office.
Sir J. GRAHAM said that, although Mr. Vizard had
been for twenty-five years his solicitor, he had felt it his
duty in forty-eight hours after taking the seals, to inti-
mate to hits' his intention to inquire into the duties of the
office and the necessity for its continuance ; adding that,
as at present advised, he did not think Mr. Vizard
would be retained as Solicitor to the Home Depart-
ment.—(Hear, hear.) ' -
Sir T. WILDE said that the number of applications
for legal advice made daily to the Home-office by coun-
try magistrates, when difficult legal questions arose, ren-
dered it necessary that there should be a solicitor in that
department. He was convinced that the salary of the
solicitor was much less than the amount of the fees which
would have to be paid to the Solicitor or Attorney-Gene-
ral, if there were not such an official adviser connected
with the department.
Sir ROBERT PEEL had filled the office of Secre-
tary of State for several years, and had never felt any
inconvenience in the want of a Solicitor to the Home
Department. His Under Secretary, Mr. Hobhouse. was
perfectly competent to advise upon all legal questions ;
so much so that Sir Vicary Gibbs told him (Sir. 11. Peel)
that he would not hesitate to put his name to any legal
opinion given by Mr. Hohhouse.—(Hear, hear.) He
thought it better to have a responsible Under Secretary
competent to advise on legal matters than to have two
distinct offices, a Secretary and a Solicitor.—(Hear.)
Colonel SII3THORP expressed his satisfaction with
what had fallen from the Right. Hon. Baronet.
Mr. DUGDALE had been a Magistrate for many
years before the office of Solicitor to the Home Depart-
ment was instituted, and he never found either difficulty
or delay in obtaining advice from the Home-office in
matters of law.—(Hear.)
Sir T. WILDE said that it was unsafe and dangerous
to rely upon the opiniOns of a lawyer who was not in
constant acquaintance with the practice of the Courts.
He could bear testimopy to the high character of Mr.
Hohhouse, but he could not forget the opinion of Sir
William Grant, who when he had been but six months
out of practice, said that his opinion as a lawyer was
good for nothing when he was no longer conversant %vial
the daily practice of the Courts.
Sir ROBERT TEEL said the Right Hon. Gentleman
had stated, on the authority of Sir Wm. Grant, that the
opinion' of a professional gentleman who had been six

months out of pr was not to be relied on, how much

more then did this statement weigh against the appoint-
ment of Mr. Vizard, who had been out of practice for two
years.—(Loud laughter.)

1 Sir THOS. WILDE said that he did not suppose that
Sir WT. Grant meant to.say that professional gentle Men
under the circumstances alluded to, were unable to ex-
press an opinion, but that a person not in a course of
professional reading, was not a safe adviser. It was true
Mr. Vizard had given up the conduct of his private prac•
tice, but he presumed that he had not given up
his professional reading.—(Laughter.) He did not think
the Right Hon. Baronet's a candid mode of meeting the
argument, though it was a smart one—(Laughter)—and
except fur the little advantage over him which h might
afford to the Right Hon. Baronet, he did not think the
time of the House had been usefully occupied by his an-
swer.—(Hear, and laughter.)
In answer to a question from Mr. WILLIAMS,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that, if in discussing any estimates, any. Hon. Gentleman
wished .for the details they should be furnished. The
vote was then agreed to.
The following votes were then agreed to without dis-
cussion :-44,000/. for the cpenses of the Foreign-
office ; 10,000/. expenses of the Colonhil-office ; 15,750/.
expenses of Privy Council and CoMmittee of Privy,
Council for trade ; 31,000/. expenses.of Privy Sell-office ;
17,473/. expenses of Paymaster-General's-office • 8,7851.
Comptroller-General of Exchequer ; 1,0001. Professors
at the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge.
On the vote fur 6,6791. Commissioners of Insolvent
Debtor's Court, being put,
Mr. WILLIAMS said that he believed that if the
establishment was managed in the same manner as simi-
lar establishments in other countries, this expense might
be avoided. It appeared to him extraordinary if the
persons confined were employed beneficially, that they
should not nearly defray their expenses.
Dr. BOWRING also thought that a more economical
system might be adopted in the establishment.
• The vote was then agreed to.
The following votes were also agreed to :

3,092/. 12s. fur the Juvenile Offenders' Penitentiary,
Parkhurst, Isle of Wight ; 1,1411. State Paper-office ;
1,5001. for defraying the expenses or the Ecclesiastical
Commissioners in England ; 29,6701. salaries and ex-
penses of the Commissioner° for the relief of the poor.
• An IIoN. MEMBER on the Ministerial side of the
House, whose name we could not learn, begged to say-
that unless a reduction took piece in the establishment
of those offices, he should feel it his duty in the next
Session of Parliament to move that the Commissions fur
the Poor he reduced to the same scale as the ColllllllS-
sions of Excise, and of public departments.
6,7961. salaries and expenses of Consuls and Vice-Consols
abroad ; 4,5001. salaries, &c., of Factory Commissioners;
3,100/. Inspectors of Prisons ; 15,7001. expenses
of the Mint ; 2,500/. Commission with respect to
the employment of children in mines and col-
leries ; 4,1001. compensation to persons who were for-
merly employed in the public service ; 3,2501. for the
relief of emigrants ; 925/. national vaccine establish-
ment ; 1,500/. for the relief of the destitute ; 1,6951.
expenses, &c. of the confinement of criminals a•id luna-
tics; 1,9501. for the purpose of assisting Protest.ant
llis-
sentingMinisters, 19,600/. to complete the sum voted for

foreign and secret service.
Mr. WILLIAMS did not object to a certain sum
being allowed as foreign and secret service money, but
there would be no necessity for that money being
legitimately employed in home service, He considered
that the sum ought to be reduced, and he would divide
the House on it.

Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, aria. the
House divided, when there appeared—
. .

-137

For the original motion
For the amendment
Majority
41,0001. were voted for law charges.
39,0001. were voted for the Hulk Establishment at
home and abroad.

On the vote of 132,800 i. being proposed to defray the
expenses of maintaining convicts,
Mr. WILLIAMS said he would not oppose the vote,
but he trusted that every means would be taken to dimi-
nish the expense of this item, which he conceived might
be easily etfixted.
After a few observations from Mr. V. SMITH.,
Sir IL PEEL said he would take care that the whole of
the estimates' should be narrowly looked into.—(Hear,
hear.) He would make it an object of his solicitude that
they should undergo a careful revision.--(Hear, hear.)
The vote was then agreed to.
12,500/. were voted for the expenses attendant upon
captive negroes. _ _

5,169?. ;:as voted to complete the sum necessary to
pay the salary of officers engaged in keeping the Public
Records.

15,00 C/. was voted for public education in Great
Britain.

2,6601. was voted to defray the expenses of the Uni-
versity of London.
795/. was voted for the support of the School of Design.
14,500/. was voted ibr the payment of the Revising
13a rristers.
6,16C1. was voted for the expenses incurred by Sheriffs.
73,00 CL was voted to defray certain charges hitherto
paid out of county rates.
6,00C1. was voted for the assistance of the Polish re-
-fugees.
3,540/. was voted to enable the trustees of the British
Museum to purchase certain manuscripts with respect to
coins.

50,850/. was voted for compensation to the merchants
who had suffered losses through the Spanish Government.
25,0001. was voted to defray the expenses of steam
communication with India by way of the Red Sea.
2,5001. was voted to defray the Civil Establishment of
the Bahama Islands.

2,024/. was voted to defray the Civil Establishment of
the Bermudas.

1,535/, was also voted to defray the Civil Establishment
of Prince Edward's Island.

5,4401. was voted to defray the expenses of the Civil
Establishments of the western coast of Africa.
3,549/. was voted to defray the expenses of the Civil
Establishment of Western Australia.

4,795/. was voted to defray the expenses of the Eccle-
siastical Establishment of the British North American

Provinces.

9.4471. Ns. was voted to defray the expenses' of the
Indian Deplitment in Canada.
5,3381. 10s. Nvgs voted for defraying the salaries of the
Governors and Deputy-Governors of the West India
Colonies.

5111. 10s. was. voted to defray the civil expenses of
. •
29,3001. was voted to defray the salaries and allow-
ances of Stipendary Justices in the West Indies.
15,000/. was voted for supporting the religious and
moral instructions of emancipated negroes.
The following votes were also agreed to :-2001. for
the establishment at Sable Island, Nova Scotia ;
19,987/. for the Niger expedition ; 3,000/. for the esta-
b:iAnent at New Zealand ; 2,211/. 10s. for the es-
tat lishment at Port Essex; 1,0001. for the Civil Establish-
n.ent at Falkland Island.

On the vote for 5,000/. to assist in promotirg private
Si bscriptions for the formation of.publie walks in great
tcvras.

Mr. BROTHERTON expressed his approbation of
the vote, and expressed his regret that the state of the
finances would not permit it to be carried to the extent
that was desirable. _ _

On the vote of 5,000. for the same purpose with res-
pect to Schools of Design,
Mr. WILLIAMS said that he cordially supported the

, vote. He regretted that while every body admitted the
: .ortance of the object, nobody was found to exert
,r for its promotion. He would suggest that a
himse' should be given to establish a school in any
small sun. which would lay the foundation for it. As.
country tom.. I,e, advantage of this plan, he would men-
an instance of evernment had sent a schoolmaster
Con that the late 'istrict, and established a school
into the Spitalfields
d that although this district
there ; and he was inform,
and as others, within three
.
forty-two schoi;,rs re-
had been praviously backs,
months afterwards not less that. -invent had been at-
gularly attended, and that the expee
~Ceoff
tended with the greatest possible advane on the se
Sir R. PEEL said he did not at all °Wee. that
of economy to a grant of public money for
pose. He thought it would be a very great age if
such schools were established in the mannfactoring I
tricts, particularly thqse which were connected with taste
and the fine arts.—(Hear, hear.) It was impossible,
however, that the Government alone could effect the ob-
ject. It might be done in Spitalfields ; but in New-
castle-upon-Tyne it could not be accomplished, without
the superintendence of a local board. The tact was,
that the wealthy in each district ought to take the lead-
ing point in such an object. He was quite certain that
it would be the means of great usefulness. The Govern-
ment, in such a case, would be prepared to give its very
best assistance.
Mr. EWART said the subject befor the House came
under the consideration of the Committee, of which he
was Chairman six years ago. The recommendation of
that Committee precisely accorded with the opinion of
the Right Hon. Baronet ; it was a recommendation of
assistance, not interference, on the part of the Govern-
ment, stating that local supervision was necessary to
success. The late Government had carried out those
principles, and he trusted that the present would pursue
the same course.
Dr. BOWRING expressed the pleasure he felt at
hearing the remarks of the Right Hon. Baronet, and
hoped to see the object carried out.
The vote was then agreed; to.
The following sums were also voted :-1,7501. to com-
plete the purehass of pictures for the National Gallery;
2,2501. for the Lighthouse, at Morant Point,
Jamaica ; 10,0001. for the census of the popula-
tion of Ireland; 37,1501. for grants to the Universities
of Oxford; 25,0001. for education in Ireland; 4,795/. for
the purpose of fbundingan hospital in,Dublin; 7,8461. 10s.
to defray the expense of the House of Industry in Dub-
lin ; 5001. for the Female Orphan-house, Circular-road,
Dublin; 1501. for the Westmoreland Lock Hospital, Dub-
lin; 750/. for Stevens' Hospital; 1,900/. for the Fever
Hospital in Cork-street, Dublin; 2501. for the Hospital
of Incurables.

MAYNOOTH COLLEGE.
On the sum of 4,464/. for the Roman Catholic College
beine. proposed,
PLUMPTRE said that he was always opposed to
this grant, and he would not now agree to it. He did not
wish to use harsh terms, but he never could 'consent to
applying the public money to the propagation of error.
lie should feel it his duty to divide the Homse on the vote.
Major BRYANT said, if the Hon. Gentleman could not
admit of this grant being made, the Irish people would
not think of giving them money to support the propaga-
tion of what they considered to be error.
Sir R. INGLIS trusted his Hon. Friend would"not di-
vide the House on the question. One half of the grant
had already been given, and the parties in expectation of
the residue had been led to increase their expenses on
that: expectation.. His Hon. Friend could oppose the
grant when it was proposed next year. ,
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL should like to know of the
the Right Hon. Baronet, who had just sat down, whether
the observation of his Hon. Friend, the Member for Kil-
kenny (Major Bryant), should not apply to his (Sir
R. Inglis) favourite question of Church Extension. He
(Mr. M. J. O'Connell) should like the House to divide
on the question, that. they might know the opinions of
Hon. Gentlemen who were unprejudiced on the subject.
He did not think that any Hon. Gent.enian would be
wrong in voting against the grant on conscientious
motives. If people were not to contribute to the sup-
port of erroneous doctrines none would more rejoice at
it than the Roman Catholics of Ireland.
After a few words from Mr. PAKINGTON and Mr.
DARBY,
Lord POLLING TON said that the Hon. Baronet (Sir
R.. Inglis) seemed to justify the grant on the principle of
prescription. Now, he should justify his vote on the
present occasion on the ground of the great majority of
the Irish people having a just claim.
Sir R. PEEL said he must say he did not give his
vote in favour of the present grant on the ground that
one-half of the sum was already granted. He had given
his vote for this grant for the last thirty years, in office
and out of office, without feeling any violation of reli-
gious scruples, and he should do so on the present occa-
sion. Nevertheless he reserved to himself the right of
making any proposal he might think proper respecting
it in a future Session.
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL said the Right Hon. Baronet
must have spoken of some Session previous to IS4O,
since in that year, and in 1841, he was absent when the
vote was proposed.
Sir R. PEEL said that he had not only frequently
voted for, but spoken in favour of the vote ; and his
being absent oil any particular occasion when the vote
passed, was no more proof of his being inimical to it
than was that of the late Secretary of the Colonies, who
was absent, that evening.—(Hear.)
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL said the last two debates on
the subject were the most important, and the absence of
the Right Hon. Baronet was particularly remarked.
Mr. PLUMPTRE said, that, as on former occasions,
he shouldfeel it his duty to divide the louse against the
vote.

Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, but no divi-
sion took place.
During our absence
Mr. LAW addressed the House, and on our return to
the gallery we found
Mr. COCHRANE intimating his intention to divide
against the vote.
An HoN. MEMBER said he was surprised the Hon.
Member fur Bridport (Mr. Cochrane) should divide
against this vote, since he had not done so against the
stun voted in the early part of the evening for the Gene-
ral Assembly of the Church of Scotland.
Mr. FORBES said he thought if he voted for this
grant he should be voting for a grant that would be in-
jurious to the Catholics in a religious point of view, and
which would not promote the tranquillity of' Ireland.
Mr. COCHRANE explained. There was no division
on the vote to the General Assembly of the Church of
Scotland, or he should certainly have voted against it.
—(Loud cries of " Hear" from the Opposition.)
The House then divided—
For the vote
Against it
Majority
The vote was then agreed to.
Also 35C1. for charitAble‘uses in Ireland ; 975/. for the
Royal Belfast Acadero.;:fl,2so/. for public buildings in
Ireland ; 12,5421. lQii....expenses of the Department of
Chief Secretary for rre-land.
On the vote for 6,232!. expenses of the Lord Lieu-
tenant's Household being put,
Lord CLEMENTS said he had a strong objection to
the vote. He wished to see the office of Lord Lieutenant
abolished. It was a perfectly antediluvian office.
Gentlemen might laugh, and he agreed with them that
nothing was more laughable than to see a gentleman of
this country apeing royalty in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.)
He thought the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland should be ap-
pointed as in the counties of England, and not be attended
with the paraphernalia of royalty, and that ridiculous
household. He should not, however, divide the House
on the present occasion.—The vote was agreed to. •
The following votes were also agreed to :-
2,369/. for the Commission of Civil Service in Ireland.
3,0751. for the charges of printing proclamations and
statutes in Ireland.
51,0001. for criminal prosecutions in Ireland.
19,0501. for the Metropolitan Police (Dublin).
1,392/. for defraying the charges of Public Works
3,600/. for the town-land survey in Ireland.
1,455/. for the Commissioners for the Improvement of
the Shannon.
The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and ob-
tained leave to sit again on Wednesday next ; stud the
House then resumed. •
The Report on the Foreign Bishops' Bill was received.
Sir T. FREMANTLE moved the recond reading of
the Royal Gardens Bill.
After a few words from Mr. PROTHEROE and Mr.
WA KLEY.
Sir R. PEEL said it was the intention of Government
to have villas built upon the site of • the gardens,
u hich would not much diminish the means of recreation
to the people. He agreed in the suggestion of the' Noble
Lord the late Commissioner of Woods and Forests, that
it was better to appropriate the Crown-lands for the
Royal Gardens rather than have recourse to a vote.
Mr. WAKLEY admitted that the villas would not
much diminish the means of recreation.
Sir T. FREMANTLE said that no benefit was
derived from the gardens to the Royal Family.
After some further discussion the Bill was read a
second time, and ordered to be committed on Wednesday
next.

23

The Frogmore Lodge Bill was read a second time.
The Lunatics' Bill was read a second time.
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL moved for copies of all cor-
respondence between Lord Viscount Morpeth, Norman
M`Donald, Esq., and Alexander Nixon, Esq., late High
Sheriff of Fermanagh, relative to the return to the writ
of election for that countv.—Agreed to.
Captain PECHELL moved that the return, made in
pursuance of Act 4th Geo. IV., c. 11—viz., copies of all
cases which have been stated and signed by Commis-
sioners acting in execution of the Acts- relating to the
assessed taxes, which have been presented to this House
since No. 87 of Session ]832, be printed (with the ex-
ception of No. 187 of Session 1841).
After a few observations from the CHANCELLOR of the
EXCHEQUER and Dr. Bownmo, the motion was nega-
tived without a diVision.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EX-
CHEQUER, a Select Committee was appointed, to con-
sider and report upon the plan submitted by the archi-
tect of the new Honses of Parliament, for the ventila-
tion and warmin; of the Houses of Parliament, and for
rendering them fire-pro 3f.
ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE -BILL-4,1
for
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL brought in a ‘
fn.
acilitating
gtthGeenAtldcimniannistsrtauttieodn thato of Justice.
ticel3.ll The
‘ 'aS p
}i
ID.
and
e-
e!
Lords,s ly thean
d samenearly
asrl y that
receivedwiii h
the hadsa n
cp
tiot passed
odoff
some
the
e Housem houseon,
money
but had been withdrawn on ace
m
clauses having been inadvertently inotroduced in the other

House.
The House then adjourned shortly after One oClock.

On Thursday morning, Ryles, a Birkenlical
and in girth 18inches. It weighed
watchman, caught, at Woodside Ferry, an eel, which measured
the monster more than half en hour
1,191
:lbe.n g t
Rh
)51„
fofought
bef.ire he could capture it, bad his hand severely bitten.....
Liverpool Times.

MORNING SUN

C.E.N TR A L CRIMINAL
Cii)17.....T.
• T:l'o Sessions at(OYtIeI)STOEICdROBDUaAtif.)
eyT.commenced yester-
d ay' efore the Bight Lon. the Lord Mayor, the lir-
e( 'll l', Aldermen, Sheriffs, sz c. The calendar is ut-
iu.oss,m •.;..liyais.mall, containing the' names of only 177 persons
Sc ).,11 after ten o'clock the names of the Grand Jury
said,
ei
dn, =callediha t over,having
T «.A Learned RL^O DER delivered his charge. He
:•ena'dd itileiehdepositions in the cases con-
ilrendduatires
at
thought they might reasonably
shoeexiPn: (3'..11; itnlh'hat lel etnheuta'm number oflriershotnsi these
er
trialSess 117 asslevoonusliddebreabbluyt
.)eofrtt heav
intervalera which hadrn'ght be account( d for by
fla‘wn-dofhtlellc.aassess. Itlortil
any from herrn,
that . iisic:icriaci.xypyiffilecnuelet
difficulty. It
rfioi:st.ttio:i:
lie present Sessions. v occurred between the last
fte•enonnbeinetly occurred that in
•
tilV (ftk : ,!s which were moss serious as regarded the
them a ls.'ei to surmount
eSOriii,:i.,' CA; evidence was generally the most simple There.
.‘ in the calendar of a 'perctdia. r • charge
a4.,,rainst several Persons. The
.peen-
•,„ in application having been made
was 4, CU
e‘ prosecutor to become a participator
of !•itrglary
la he assented, but at the same time
liarit: consist.. a
the police,-and accordingly through.
e,a t servant, the police entered the
to a servant of ti.
in tl. , crime, to wh.
givin.: information two
p,.,,,s,'Esion ready to be conveyed
the information of
hou, .
and took 0? 17,,,r44cs into custody, and found a
bask -; of plate in their
away. It would be preinathLre in him to offer any ro-
ma; is upon the course which hiti ~`ecn pursued, as there
wqri, cases of a similar description in' which the animatl-
vei ;jog of the Court had been found to act prejudiciaUy
tow. rds the parties concerned. There wa also a case
of J. anslaughter, under very peculiar circutrstance.t.
A you of about the age of 15 or 16 years, with a:
comyudi,,n, had incautiously used a cannon—a small
cannon, stx.2h as those used by children, and standing
upon wheels. This youth having fired the cannon, 3..
portion of the contents—a portion of the loading—lodged.
in tie breast nf a boy who was passing by the street at
the tine. In c.,..escquence of this Mat:nation ensued and
he died. It could :lot be supposed that the youth fired
this cannon with a.'"W expectation of so serious to
result, or with any imunedia:e apprehension.
Stiil, strictly in law, if the death of 'a' party-
were
caused by an accident 0' 1: this deecriptioik
it accounted the party concerned as guilty of man-
slac;hter. There was sufficient want of caution dis-
play, d in the party firing off the canno.'t in one of the
crop edl streets of the metropolis. Under these circum-
stances, whatever matter of extenuation might be brought
forward thereafter, it' would be their duty t I return a
bill. He thought it right to refer to this case, because a
feeling might arise the minds Af Ow Jury that a child
letting off a small cannon under such circnmst vices,
could not be dJetned guilty of the crime of manslaugNter.
All iiiev had to determine was, whether there w.O a.
wan: of caution, and if so, then the law held that :t.
Ivou '4l amount to manslaughter. With these general
obsy-.-ations be should dismiss them to their duties.

Mr. PAYNE applied to the Court for the discharge of
the r•cognizance of the prosecutors against Wm. Gil-
linghritn. The Learned Counsel said that the case was
post; oned from the last session in consequence of tho
prisoner, while confined in Newgate, having swallowed
a cpla;itity of pins, and he had since died in prison.
The lb:co:1mm said it would be necessary that the
fact stated by the Learned Counsel should be formally-
proved.
r. Cope, the Governor of Newgate, was then sworn,
and he proved that the party charged had died in gaol.
The recognizances were then ordered to be discharged.
. I >own Parslow, 32, and George Taylor, 45, were in-
dict. d for a misdemeanour, for fraudulently obtaining a
qua•l•ity of rags from Messrs. Ratcliffe, of Southwark.
The defendants retracted their plea of not guilty and
plea' ea guilty, and they were ordered to enter into
the i own reco,gnizances to appear and receive the judg-
ment of the Court when called upon so to do.
Cooniber, 45, was indicted for fraudulently ob-
taining possession of two ponies, the property of Mrs..
Maddox, of Smith-Street, Chelsea. The prisoner was
found guilty, and on Mr. Clarkson, the Counsel for the
pro::-cution, stating that he had been capitally convicted
in IS3O of horse-stealing, the Recorder sentenced him.
to lot• transported for seven years.

POLICE INTEIAAGENCE.
MANSION-lIOUS.L.
ErTGRATION.-Mr. Carter, of the firm of Carter and
Bo1:1:s, ship-agents, of No. 11, Leadenhall-street, up-
peare lat the Justice-room, at the request of 'Alderman
Pirie, in consequence of the complaints of
.several poor
per.ons about to emigrate to Australia, against a man
narn d John Mußender, who bad represented himself as
the rgent of that respectable house in pecuniary matters
coin eeted with emigration. The case, which
d resembles a great many instances of Imposition
upon distressed mon and women who have expviied to
imp.: we their condition by leaving this country, ex-etted
no small degree of interest.
Au Attorney, who appeared for the complainants,
sta:',l, that without meaning to cast the slightest impu-
tation upon Messrs. Carter and Bonus, he considered
hims•-lf justified in calling upon them to refund the
money which their agent, Mr. Mullender, had received front
his ( „bents, upon the promise, regularly attested by (him-
ineist,,, to send these poor men out to Australia. In
each-of the cases the complainants had disposed of all
their t!arthly goods iu order to pay up the difference be-
twei n the Government allowance and the broker's de-
ninuti. In one case the sum of U. was paid ;in mother
the sum of 41. ; in a third the sum of 21.; and in a .eourth
the 1,/,.

r. Carter said that Mr. Mullender applied to the,
hells, for employment in the way alluded to, but the ap-
plic.. lion was not listened to, for the firm perfectly well
umler ;tood to what abuse an agency of the kind might
be . o:tiected. They would, if the party guilty of pion-
dcrii.g the poor men were prosecuted, pay ld . towards
the ..\renses of the prosecution.
To Attorney said he had every reason to belie% e that
lie c old prove the agency of Mr. Mullender to the house
of .7,i essrs. Carter and Bonus, and that the Alderman
would not hesitate to pronounce them responsible.
Relfc, a carpenter, residing at No. 22. Peerless--
row, "lity-road, stated that about two months ago he
rp2;i,..1 to Mr. John Mullender, of No. 24, Little
Lrit::in, on the subject of emigration, that person being
the nrarest emigration agent to his residence. There
were hills pasted about the house announcing the fact,
an .1 Mullender informed hint that the demand for
the , :tssage of his wife and two children and him-
: elf ould Si., but agreed to reduce it to 51., stating at;
the . fare time that as another woman was going out, one,
or the children should be at down opposite to her name,
and tat he (Mr. Mullender) was acting for Messrs.
Care and Bonus, of Leadenhall-street, and there was
no oe !asion for witness to go any further. Mr. Mullen-
der farther stated that he was under a bond to the
anion it of 40C/. to the gentlemen he represented. The
wit ti!!:s then produced a pasteboard with a bill contain-.
in`; r:e particular information on which those who in-
tel.', 1 to emigrate were required to act, and which he
said had been taken from Mr. Mullender 's offices. He also•
noticed other documents, which left no doubt in his
mind as to the agency. •
M Carter declared that the pasteboard hal been
stole:L from the outer office of the firm, where it was
accui'mned to hang. Witness stated that upon the
first interview he paid Mr. Mullender 11.. and at a subse-
quen time, when the certificates and papers supposed to
be nueessary were delivered; he paid the additional sima
of 41. to that gentleman, but never saw him afterwards.
Th(*inas Norman, of No. 19, Peerless-row, City-read,
fail:o in-law to the first witness, stated that in conse-
quo...v.! of information from his son-in-law, he called at
Dies:....;. Carter and Bonus's offices on the Gth and 7th eF
the present month, and saw a stout man, who appeared
to be a principal clerk, with whom he communicated on
the subject of the intended emigration. The clerk, upon
bei;:g asked whether Mr. Mullender was known to them
and employed by Messrs. Carter and Bonus, replied
" yes ; he is employed to inquire about the character
and circumstances of those who apply for free emigra-
tion.' The clerk also, upon being informed of the name
toiflatthe ;:epnar.atsy t
(f)o for 18., in the witness was interested, oh-
servt,..l that the papers of that person were ready, and
agre mem had been madefworhisc/h.,wanitdnetshsesaciledrltchastaiada,
" Why, he has got two children.'!
Alderman PutlE--Did the clerk say that your son-in-
law v.'as to call at the office ? Witness—lle said tnt
my son-in-law ought to call, but he did not strictly
rect t', at he should call.
Iha Attorney for the complainants asked the
man whether he was satisfied as to the agency °
Mullender, after the evidence just detailed ?
P
Al lerman PIRIE—I do not think that you
her mischief!
the :,:ency. It is evident that a great deal r
by your
has been done to poor people, but
u'ire tiaout
shot:big, has been employed merely to 9
1:ho intended
the characters and circumstances of thoses,
in
nay
to emigrate. I shall give you every
ould prove the
Alder-
man
power, and I should be very glad if S
"e. able, and,. lam
agency. !Or these gentlemen arc
hsuoin.e,,o;‘,r-e,llb-oduisnpdotsoedpat3o.pay, if they are,s
submitted
Th. Attorney for the complainantsconjnction with the.
eitherittiendlathwatorthine
prounction of the printed PaVoerfstle ap'eneY'
evidence, was adequate prootd
y could: I have no doubt,
A:slerman Pima— 3
e,er
tbeo°o
eu-nnitpciropc)am_ riyitisin7o,tfoa timhneacimnu
inquire
eo
into
matters have got thTse
'6
papthing"r to
you aiust awar one r
ceive money, and allot
matters of a different kind.l'bc Solicitor cO.neirp 1 av‘iuoatinldtsmsoaried
completely h e hfi d
evidence which,
the agency of
,ho said that he was a clerk out of
F. D. Watson, is
lent made atth-sitottitigemhte,nt as to having gone to thn
his evidence made no addition to that
erni:.:.ation ; but
I • • .ly difclosed.
(e)rtnli(P,Y(ifnMes'srs. Carter and Bonus on the business a
hmraunieie,
nldaebrouornert,hsetastuedb
subject
to
of emigrating,
too,igra t
ihnagd,
tkolifuttena .
received from that individual a certificate,
faaa(nPa-lP3:1-11,;its''h'irasivcttioefleICA,erhe.is children, end himself ; after which he
accoaipanied Mr. Mullender three or four times to the
Oka of Messrs. Carter and Bonus. Mr. Mulleneer
brought out the papers, pinned together, from the
office, and gave them to the witness ; and did various
otter: . things, which gave him all the appearance of being
auti,”rited.
A :.lerman PIRIE repeated that the attorney for th
complainants had failed to prove the agency of Mullen-
der upon the part of Messrs. Carter and Bonus ; but
quite enough was stated to prove that the poor people
actual on the belief that that imposter was an authorised
person. It was quite evident that the conduct of Mul-
lender was directed to the object of impressing upon
them that they were to
pay him, and that he would ac-
comt:, to Messrs. Carter and Bonus.
?,:r. Carter said that he felt the deepest regret mid in-
diveition at the serious injury done to the poor ap-
,
p,i . ~,ts. Mullender had called at the office, and stated
that he had been acting for ether"shipbrokers engaged in
' emigration business, and had quarrelled with them, and