The Sun.
London, England, 1840-05-19 00:00:00

BOW-STREET.-(THIS DAY.)

RE-EXAMINATION OF GOULD.
At an early hour the Court and its appro'aches were
rowded with persons, anxious to get a glimpse of Gould.
The Bench was occupied by Mr. Hall, and other Mvis-
trates, among whom we observed Major Anderson, who
appeared to take an interest in the proceedings.
Mr. Hobler, jun., attended for the prosecution, and
called
Charles Allen—l live at Wilson's Cottage, Pocock's
Fields, and am a shoemaker. I know the prisoner. He
has resided at my house. I can hardly say how long, but
1 should think it is about a twelvemonth since I first saw
him. He was at home part of the day on Sunday, March
16. He slept at my house that night. He went out
early on the Monday morning, soon after breakfast, be-
tween eight and nine o'clock, I should think, but
I am not certain. He did not breakfast with me.
He was dressed in his usual dress, and had on a pair of
heavy uncle shoes, clinked round the toes. He came home
between the hours of two and three on Tuesday morning.
It was after I heard the church clock strike two. I
think 1 saw him come in. He was sober. I was lying
in Led when I saw him. He went into his own bed-room.
He could not do so without passing through mine. I saw
nothing more of him until the next morning at eight o'clock.
I saw him come out of his bed-room, and pass through
ours. He went out into the wash-house. There is a privy
adjoining it. He remained absent half anhour or twenty mi-
nutes. I saw him return. He had his old shoes on then.
When he came out of the place they had been cleaned. He
then left our house. I did not see him again until about a
quarter past seven en Tuesday evening. I found him in
my house. I had been out, and found him in my house on
my return. My wife and the prisoner 'were conversing
together about the murder of Mr. Templeman. The pri-
soner turned to me and said, Do you not think lie could
have done it himself ? and I said, Richard, it is impos-
sible; how could he have tied his own hands. The p-i-
-soner was sitting at the table, and asked me to fetch a
rasher of bacon for him, and I desired him to fetch it him-
self. He said, I knew the reason he did not wish to go
out. The reason was there was an assault warrant out
against him. He gave me Is., and I fetched him bacon, beer,
and tobacco. In conversation afterwards he said he
had been to Limehouse, Blackwell, and Wapping, and to
Clapham, to see his aunt, who had given him some money.
I discovered he had new shoes on. I showed them to my
wife ; and the prisoner said, I have been to my cousin's,
and he had a pair of shoes that would not fit him, he has
given them to me, and I have jumped into them. I did
not see any more money when he gave me the shilling.
He said he had been at the Rainbow the night before,
which he had left at twelve o'clock, and had met with
some friends on the road, who had detained him.
He went to bed at about ten minutes past nine that
night in the same room he had slept the night before.
I fastened his bed-room door, so that he could not get out
through my room. I had missed a white handled knife
chat day. It has been found in a cupboard in our house.
I never put any money in the privy.
Mr. HALL—The officers pointed out to you the place
where tome money was found in a stocking. Were you
there on the Monday or Wednesday ? Witness—Yes ;on
the Monday.
Mr. HALL—Did you see anything in that place, then?
Witness—No, Sir. I believe I had a dark lanthoru on
my premises. The lanthorn produced is mine.
Mr. HALL—How do you know it is your's ? Wit-
ness—lt was my father's and mine for forty years. I
am quite positive it is mine. I know it b 3 one of the
corners of the horn being burned. I never burned a rush-
light in it. There is a piece of rushlight in it now. I
ha:e no recollection of having seen it for some time; it
was kept in a cupboard or a box ; the horn was out of it.
The horn was nut kept in the same place as the lanthorn,
but it was either in the cupboard or the box. Any person
in the house could have got it. The prisoner lodging in
my house could have access to it. I know where Mr.
Templeman lived ; it was from three to four hundred yards
from my house.
Gould—You have said that when I came home on
Tuesday morning you heard the clock strike two. Wit-

Hess—Yes.
Gould—Have you never said you could not hear a
clock? Witness—Not to my knowledge.
Gould—When I came home you was awake ? Witness
—Yes.
Gould—Could not I come home without you hearing
me? Witness—Not that night ; I was awake.
Gould—flow many times have I let myself in without
you hearing me? Witness—Not frequently ; you have
done so.

In answer to further questions from Gould, witness
stated that the prisoner might have come home without his
hearing him, and had done so ; that prisoner was not at
home when witness went cut to fetch his own beer. On
his return prisoner was sitting at the table, and witness
went and sat by the fire.
Gould—Stato if you can what you formerly said about
the shoes.
Witness—l cut a piece of bacon, and it fell the wrong
ide. I then cut another piece, which fell between your
feet, and that drew my wife's attention to you shoes.
Witness further stated that Gould might have heard him
fasten the door, but did not think that Gould knew it. It
was so fastened as that he could not get out. There was a
window in Gould's bedroom with six squares of glass. It
was not fastened. He had not scan the la stern for two
years, perhaps. He had frequently lost things, but found
them again in his garden. There was no inclosure be-
tween his garden and the plwe where the lantern was
found. The cupboard in which it was kept was about
three feet high.
In answer to a question from Mr. HALL, witness said he
never had a rushlight in Hs house.
Gould— Have you never stated that I had a light in my
room to sit up to read ? Witness--Not to my knowledge.
Gould—How many different persons have you had
lodging with you since you saw this lantern ? Witness—
Wright and you.
Gould—Where was the box kept? Witness—ln the
wash-house. It was unlocked. The cupboard is never
locked, one door is generally open. Igo there for coals,
but I never saw the lantern. It could not be seen unless
it t, as looked for.
Gould—How long is it since I bought those boots of
you ? Witn,ss—Between eight and nine months up to
this time. I know nothing about any payments you have
made.

Mr. John West—l live at 47, Lambeth.walk, and am a
sl oe.naker. I recollect selling a pair of boots to
the prisoner on Tuesday, March 17 ; they were
lace boots. It was in the morning. He came into my
shop and asked for a pair of boots. He paid me 7s. 6d.
for them. He fitted them on in the shop. The boots
produced are the same sort of boots. A woman was with
him. She had a child. We buy our shoes ready made.
They were marked 92. The mark is worn out ; it would
be placed on the toe. He had on a pair of stout boots,
strongly nailed. They were not worn out. They were
serviceable. I believe he paid tr ein silver. Ido not re-
collect what money he had. I was subpcenaed on a former
occasion regarding the prisoner.
Cross-examined by Gould—lt was in the early part of
the morning you purchased the boots. I stated at first I
could not recognize you, but when I saw you in your fus-
tian dress I could. I did not take particular notice of the
soles of the old shoes. I have seen shoes trod through,
and the edges good.
Re-examined by Mr. Nobler—l was at the Old Bailey
when prisoner was at the bar. He had on then a fustian
dress. lam sure it was he who came to buy the shoes.
Allen, being recalled, said be believed the shoes pro-
duced to be the same. He observed the prisoner to have
a new pair on the evening in question.
Gould—You have said that I told you I had got some
money. How long have you thought of it ? Witness--
Almost ever since.
Gould—Did you state that I said that the old lady re-
ceived me kindly, and that I was lucky ? Witness—l
might have said so.
Gould—You have been examined very often, and it is
very strange you never stated anything about my having
money before.
Benjamin Hawkins—l live at No. 6, Liverpool Cot-
tages. I have been a beer-shop keeper. I know Po_
cock's-fields, and the cottages about there. I knew Mr.
Templeman. He resided in Lincoln Cottage. About
Michaelmas he was desirous of purchasing a cottage. I
heard him bid money for it. He happened to come to
my house to settle the business. I saw seventeen sove-
reigns and a half in gold in Mr. Templeman's possession
at that time. Ho took it out of a hox in a drawer. He
offered to deposit with me the price of the cottage. I 'nave
mentioned this in public. Ido not know if I have kid it
the pretence of the prisoner. I have spoken of it before the
murder so frequently, that it might be generally known.
The cottage was Jarvis's, he was about to purchase; he bid
la. As he had not deposited the money it was presumed
it was in his possession. I have frequently mentioned
this. It was generally known. It appeared to mo that
Mr. Templeman had two Bank notes. I know the pri-
soner as being about the neighbourhood, but I have no re-
collection that he was present when I mentioned this.
Cross-examined by Gould—Was there any person who
used your house that I was intimately acquainted with ?
Witness—Persons that you might have drank with when
you came in to sell potatoes.
Gould—Did ever you see me serve Mr. Templeman
with beer ? Witness—l never did. I have frequently
seen you about the gardens with Mrs. Jarvis.
Charles Allen recalled—stated, in answer to Mr. HALL,
that he had never ascertained from conversation if the pri-
soner knew anything about Templeman, nor could they
see his house from their cottage.
George Walters—_l know Mr. Templeman and the pri.
sorter, and have heard them speak together once. When
the prisoner lived at Barnsbury Castle I saw him go across
Mr. Templeman's ground to take beer to Jarvis. Mr.
Mr. Templeman was angry. I came out, but could not
hear what passed. I never said anything to Gould on the
subject. I do not know that he knew it was Mr. Tem.
pleman.
Mr. Hobler said be thought it his duty to seek out
everything he thought likely to forward the ends of justice,
but he did not wish it to be thought he was pressing un-
duly on the prisoner.
Mr. HALL—You arc quite right ; but we must not over.
load the depositions with matter of no importance, which
may perhaps mislead the Judge and the Jury.
Collins the policeman was recalled, and asked by Gould
precisely the time he' found the lantern ?—Witness : At
half-past three on Tuesday. I had not searched previ-
ously. There was no search made on the Sunday by any
one belonging to the force.
Police-sergeant H. King, N 22, described the search of
Allen's cottage on the 18th March, and the finding the
money secreted in a stocking in the roof of the privy. The
money consisted of 19 half-crowns, 48 shillings, and 7 six-
pences. Witness took it to Mrs. Allen, and showed it her.
I have not the money now ; it was given up to the Sheriffs
by order of the Court, after the trial. Since the last ex-
amination I have been making further searches. After the
trial I gave up the stocking produced to Inspector Miller. I
marked it in ink. I see the mark now. I marked it on
h, Thursda •of
finding it ink. It was returned to me this morning at the
14'hthis month, station-house. On the
hi t, I,etween twelve and one.
we be:a near Allen's
We search a pond situated in P tine
ocock'b-
been
,found.4..?dfs u, search further
cottage, the same in which the lanthorn had