The Sun.
London, England, 1812-06-23 00:00:00

TUESD JUNE 23, 1812.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, MoDAy,

IRISH PRELATES.

Their Lordships -'resolved into a Comtpittee of
Privileges, -and Lord Valsingh.thu- .having. taken•
the Chair,
_ _

The Petitions of the Bishops of Meath and.
Kildare, as •Irish Representative Prelates, setting
forth and praying for the admission of their rights,
to take place and precedence next after the Arch-
bishops, as was the order of their precedence be-
fore the Union, in Ireland, in like manner as the
Bislops, of London,- Darham, and Winchester,
rank in precedence" immediately after the Arch-
bishops in England. The application, we un 12r-
'stand, is for precedency imnielliately after theFe
English Bishops we have mentioned. Some dis-
cussiontook place, and in the result, it was deemed
proper to postpone the. further consideration of
the case until a further attendance of the Bench
of English Bishops, us being more or- less con-
•cerned:
./Ufider'this inapre,ssion, the further con-
sideration of the case• was adjourned by their
Lordships till Wednesday.
After prayers were read, some routine and pri-
vate business was transacted, and the re-com-
mitment of the Curates' Bill was postponed till
t o-raorro w.--,--Adjourned . •

HOUSE 'OF COnSIONS, .MozmAy:

Mr. JEKYL moved for leave to-bring in a Bill to-,
enaltic' the Prince Regent to lease out certain mea-
dows, cathui Prinee's Meadows, 'in the courkty of
Surrey.—Leave
The lion. and Learned 'Gentlernan. after Wards
brought in the Bill, which Was read a first time;
ordered for a woad reading to'-morrow.
The Loan -Bill and the Lottery Bill were s roc
. rally read a s,econd time.
The Salt Bill was committed, and ordered to; be:
r.eportea to,morrOWs.
Mr. AL FIT2G,ERAti) presented a Petition' front
cedain IHllabitants of hoWn, sin faVonr oftie
Roman Catholic Petitions, swine,- that themaio-
rirty Of. I.l'e comilliereial' property in that County,
is Itonuin Caeiolic.—The Petition was laid On tat`
table. • - -
The House ivent into ComMittee on the Arts
yelatino to COpper. A additit-ntll duty of 20!.
per ton, was laid upon all Copper i3nported into
this kingdom. . The Report was ovaered for to-;
morrow.
The IT,ou-se, ,vent into. a Committee on the West -
1;);(1,1 rrt;J,:l.e. Act.. A Resolution Was ilv:rot,d; to,
atiowing goods to be oneisland to
anotllci• Nvitlloqt liability io seizure. .The Report
was ordered L-inorrow.
Lord FqLKESTONE gave notice, that-Lite shon'el
on Monday next '.u.l:)tnit a rnotiwn to that House
upon the- subje7.t of Captain
,King,
Mr, PALMER..
•
Colonel PALMER observed,. that his.. Father's
claims had been so often discussed, that heshOuld
say nothing upon the lue.rits..of the .case, but only.
explain his ruts on s.fo rren ewing:the Bill tber.
had heretofore supported. :AfteAktlta former hi
lure,...front. the dissent'of the Other. House, Mr.
Pahner's claim was referred by an address of 'the
House. to a..ideeision in a Court: of Law,; nor could
he be blamed for: wantonly troubling the, House in-
seekingan,nnpracticable,issue., asvt was the•con-
•victian• of his,COuttsel that the cause night have
:been tried upon its merits, had it been allowed.
In. the
_1,,.!.=.t Session an' _address was presented' to
the .Regent by. they Holt*, praying his, Royal
High nesS to :advance the arrears due to .1-7,11 Pal-
titer 5 .to which his Royal Highness was graciOnsly
pleased to answer, • -that he, should.he ready to
amply with the wishes of the House when Par 7
Jiament-should provide the., Ineans.' The._ only
means-were the present 8i11,.-which he; would
sholy, explain, .By Mr. 'P.'s
.original agreement
be;wasto.haveA per dent. on -the increaFe of
Tthe Post-office, .arising
rfront his plan ;"i and had
the claim:been tried by law, it was the opinion
of`.. the Chief Justice of the .Court to Which it
witsrefer:ed• rand. also of . another Judge, lately
a Member of this-lionsertliat Mr. V. was entitled
to the benefit of the original,agreement. Wen
the evidenee on,which these grave opinions were
founded, . was referred to: a Committee. of tlie
House of Commons, they also declared :the ori-
zinal claim to be substantiated 5 but, under ail
circumstances,, reCorninended P: to be paid

his sal sy and per centage according to a subse-
quent appointment. When ,this Repoil was dis-
c.ussed.in- the House, an amendment was tnovetl,
by deducting the salary, and giving Mr; Palmer
his per centage only, which amendment he -con
ceded to. On presenting the account of-arrears
from the Post-office, amounting to 69,0004 it
was referred by certain Members to aUwunittee,
who reduced the 69,0001. to 54,000/. and it was
upon this reduced scale that the Bill was framed;
and-when it was considered, that, instead tivo
and a half per cent. as was originally. tgreed, Mr.
Palmer's profit was immediately reduced. be!oW,
one per cent. and that for the remainder of his
life, he would receive but the hundredth part Of
that annual reenue which (to qu:)te the, words
.of the Commissioners of Public Inquiry) his in-
genuity,netivity, and zeal had ,created; be flat-
tered himself that neither Parliament or the coun-
try would think his services over-paid.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER of
to the prindiple of the,Bill, on the grounds before
,staled, namely, that he had commuted the claims
bv_the :Acceptance of office, which office, by his.
subsequent.conduci,-he forfeited,; .that, in con-
sideration of his services to the Public, he had
received a remuneration of 30001. per annum,

[rmer sixrl:NrcE-IT.4:I•AFFENY.

and that pension completely Mound all -further
claims.

Sir THOMAS TURroN that the claims
Palmer had lipon the Public, had hcen
aver and over amain recognised by Parliaincnt.—:.
He denied. that they could be inquired. into iri
a Court of Justice; and:maintained that the
House -was bbund 'in justice to sanction the

Mr.' Lox° defended the previous. opposition
gixk-n to the ciaints: on the ground that no posi-
tive af-Preetnent for a stipulated SUui had been en-
,
tcre,i into.

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL opposed it or the

gronas. , •
Mr. jEi.YLL entered liis protest' against the doc---;
trine liowlield forth. Ile said, that after full aaa
imitate
,repeateJ..m'ajoritit,6 of this
I4'ouse.had,..sane,rioned the. c:aims, and the
nions of the most ,considerabie Laivvers,Of the.
times Werc,in fav(tui' of the c/oims. • 'A,2_otrinioil:i
he alluded to,, -Fere.thoe of Lord Erskilba,
"Justice MAiSfield.;.and Mr. Main.

Sir Af VVooD supported the elaitv.s..
Mr. ROSE oppose4ltheu:.for the reasons before
stated. . • • • • • -

After some :further observations; the Bill tvas
4'eV a second time; and conimitted for to-rnoymw:

On the motion of Lord•ALT lORPr,. ari ::reoklat
of tht'rarions,artieles.of leather used in the 'lc Svy,
Army, and the OrdnanewaB ordered to be laid
before the House. •

~. "'

WAYS AND MEANS'.
On bringing up the report ot"the Cetnynittee of
117:1vs a-Ad Means,
'Air. BROUGHAM stated shortly hi§ objections to
the .?reposed additional datie's upon_lea,ther; upon
horses 11,,ed in rtgrieniture, and servants- of an
inferior cle,,criptiow, .9.s tending eventnally,to aa,et
the lower cn'.ers in Society.
_ The scveral resolation,; were "react and agreed to.
SEA •STO.CK. •

Mi. FULLER gave notice of a motion for Mon-
day ilext, respecting the, unclaimed dividends of
th South Sea Company Stock. •

ROMAN CATHOLICS.

Mr. CASINING rose to bring'forward his-mOtion.
respecting the present state of the llchnan Catholic
Subjects in Ireland. -The,Right 4fm. Gentleman
observed, ryhen it was-reflected. thattite: extent.
and magnitude of-the subject which be sfic,:uhl this
day press upon-,the-- consideration 'of -the noise
was of such a nature. as t4T require the .mOst aezi n s
-deliberlation, he had loves ti at Ile=yuoultl .auteee.l
ill impressing-npon 'the .minds of sill- wht, hearj
him, the necessity of ihVititt tile-earliest
,'ltten-
tion theExectiiive:G,,wertonent-to-that subject.
:ViThen the di:hates. %aid 'dis,eassionS.,.so.freqinently
repeated both • in. this House 011(1- -elsewhere were
eonsidered-----when the ...painful saceotints - whith
were receiv-ed the, post- of this day., of the
anNiety which tho subject ha* Created in on',,,,:part
'of the Unit..ed!::ging4firt-y...was also- consi,derlzZ: it
• Might be expectech:rbeishOhlti:tres.pass at same
length upon the. indulgence of 'the House: Nhat
e:.:pectation, hoWeVer, he-trusted, he should be en-
abled disvPiiint ; comPliee.ted
be, - he would rest/the, pies:doh
aipon-.l4l,rk,and simple principles. • -}yei.e.-
sidered as ~coming'forward in the character:of 4
partizan,. he shouldhe under great difficulties, _ in
consequence of the kripWledge.Of whathad trans-
pired in another'part of the empire. The, ViQW,
however, which he -had always taken of the subject,
and still continned-to.take, was, in cinisequence of
what he had, heard this 'clay, made the more
portant; as the unsettled state of things.- opera:. -
to induce hiM to pies the attention of the sub-
ject on the House. -. So far from wishing to, recar
to past- diSsensions and- animosities, or to •'touch
i/upon theintelligencejust received, he should keep
from the view of the,. Hotise all -irritating and in-
flammatory language. He hoped it was still pI:A-
-sible for. the Mouse to enter upon the discussion
and Consideration of the question as a great State
one, certainly surronnded and embarrassed with
difficulties,isichichare liableto increase; ,but the ex-
istence and increase of ,these difficulties was no rea-
son for rejecting the sober examination, of the -
question ; they finnishefilO ground for turning
aside -from.the consideration of it;rfor if the House-
wished. wizihed to give peaceJo the..Em pire,
,the question
ihusfhe_ looked at in all:-:its .principles and, bear-
: lie's, with a ,view- :of settling it effectually:- , With
these feelings.orE his trtincl, tht.- greatprinciples of
the question he tools to be these. Heapprehended
that, without'huing StiSpectedi of, indulging wild
theories founded upon the.supposed:rights of man
(>ifavourite topic which-had been afloat for.thc last
t wente vcars). ; Or of- the rights. of citi=s-; that
it I..vas an undoubted truth, -not liable to contra-
-diction;, that all citizens of .:the- same state are
equelly entitleitto the Same political privileges as
their t'ellow subjects, This he took to be a_ge-
noral rule. He was ready to admit; that to a ge-
hcral rule of the kind there might be takn ex,
eeptions, . which. exceptions instead of invali-
,dating the. truth .of his premises, were sub-
ject to. drnbt. It :could not be. denied him,
that those • who -made rite exceptions were
, . hound to .shew the contrary of what he af-
On them the 'ones probandi lay. If
_made the exceptions; they were called upon to
justify the grounds upon which they were raised
The next prineipleovhich lie Thought would hard-
Iv he disputed, was this it was conceded, that as
against this country there is at present -a „force
combined tin its operations, and extem'ed in
rengli. under . the ,greateSt 'conqueror which, ino-
dcrn...Eur )pe ever knew pecniiarly directed
wards the subjugation of the .„ In such
a -state of things; was it not desirable that ti.e
stii;test union :3.uchconcentrat4m of-the energies
and resources of the State'should.be kept
that the faculties and. the affectionate feelintts of

the people should be caned into action, ankthat
no dissension should arise to lead to a dismember-
ment of t lrc bilipire ? The third general
.princi-
ple was this,• that when then existed such a state
of-things as that to which be had alluded, which,
by 'chalice, .or the force of events, beyond- the
_eontroul of roan, could not be .avoided, that a;
great Permanent question, which ,agitated the
minds of, the community, remained unsettled, and
could not be nettled by compromise without • the
interference of the suprerfie power, that then it
was 'not sate to leave it in An unsettled state ;
suffer it to he afloat ; but that :it was. the duty of.
Parliament to make up their minds, and finally to
settle the question bVegislative interference. To
this last principle he- was not aware of any ea-
ception, nor indeed could any exception be made
' for, in-such a state of thingse.nothing could be
more dangerous than to-leave the question wild
and unsettled, subject to puhlie discpssions -and
dissensions. • The best way of Meeting such a
state of things, was to definethe made hest cal-
culated for removing the possibility of.agitating
the question at all. These were. all the assume-
tions which' he thought necessary to bring ' for-
ward, as the gidde of his motion,, and he was not
aware of any general principleS of equal:.: ufhority
on which to rest for decision. Ike, Was aware,
however, that those avho looked at the qUestion,
did, when they objected to the introduction of
any change into lorig-established principleS, con-
tend; that there were • two. great political 'ques-
tions which came in conflict with each other, and
interfere to the prevention of his assumed prin-
ciples. The first of these principles, and that was
the most general and consequently most popular
of the two,
,was this : the dread of innovation,
and the danger of change. The seeOnd was,
the question of timely concessions. In answer
to these principles, the .question always would
be, whether in that which was demanded
fon could or could not
.grant the demand,
or you,ought or ought not to withhold it; and .
• granted, in what manner the concessiOils
eauld be made, so as to
.secure -the greatest
'possible, safety, and incur the smallest degree
of danger: Those who argued the questiOn on
general grounds maintained that to break in Up-
on the established order of things was a task of
veat difficulty and danger. The assertion of the
danger of innovation Very naturally implied that
some fixed and regular state of things NI as iwax-
istence, a state formed by the deliberate wisdom
of Statesinen; carried on by long experience, and,
acquiesced, in by the.practice of the Constitution.
7n looking at the Penal Code under which the.
Catholics of Ireland have lived, and still
live, he,must ask of those who raised the ques-
tions, who stood for ancient ways, who would
not depart from established principles, at what
period of our .history it was they conceived this
principle to have arrived at its utmost perfection ?
when it was defined, where. built, when it re-
ceived the finishing hand, and at what precise
time- it *as- incorporated into the Constitutions of
tht Empire ? ' Must the House look baCk to that
period when the principles of Christianity first
atenk root—rwhen, the convulsions of the World
first made it necessary that civilized society
should receive .those advantages originating with
the System ; Did those who aligned- for such an
establishment pretend. to
.say that a perfect form
ei worship was to be found, laden as the religion
was subsequently with 'all kinds of corruptions, as
Providence often originated good out of evil ?
When the lust and pride of Henry 17111. induced
him to interfere, and though one of the greatest
tytauts that ever existed., to produce that bles-
sing----the Reformation, was the purity of the re-
-then ,at its.. height ? . Was it in those times
that this established order was the most , pure,
when that monarch wreaked his vengeance Jinni-
ly -on Catholic and .on Protestant ; when those
who were for the Pope were hanged, and those
who were against him were burnt ; Was it in
those times, when in lieu of constitutional guards,
proclamations were the order of the day ?. Was
t in those times they would look for security
against innovation ? Was it in the reign of Eli-
za-eth, denominated a glorious reign ; but of
ii-hich the latter years were oppressive upon
the subject, and mischievous to the .Empire ?-
11-hen she exercised most of the cruelties which
her predecessor had exercised, at least pot
.far'
short of them, inflicting on the sect which the
early part'of her reign had overthrown, the bar-
barities which that sect had, inflicted on those of
the Reformed Religion,—would they kok for a
precedent there ? Would they go to the reign of
Charles the First, when the professors of the Ro-
man Catholic Religion in Ireland, those who
wielded his arms, were dealt haedly by ? Howe
little cause had they to bless that Monarch who
established -a .system of extermivation,SWhich he
acted upon to the manifest
.danger of the State.
Wags it-any of these periods they looked.to; or did
they wish to comedown to that period in which
some Gentlemea were of opinion the Constitution'
first began, namely, .at the RevOlution? . The
fact was not so"; the Revolution hadthe merit of
connecting civil slavery more strongly with poli-
tics. If it was meant to be contended that this
desireble.state of things was to he- found at that
period, he should deny that assertion—that state
- was not perfected -till later tithes, until the reign.
of Queen Atine, and the period in which the two
first members .of the House of Hanover were seat-
ed on the throne of these realms ; -then, and not
till then, could it be,said, that the system was ar-
rayed, With perfection ; for from the, time of
s Cromwell up to, that period, it was nothing leas
than a system of artificial benefits, calculated to
cramp the. exertions, azid to feed that principle
which was unproductive to the people of the Em- •
pire ;. that was the policy which statesmen justi-
fied—which Ministers put forward, and which
during three reigns they laboured to establish.
V 'as it at periods like these that Gentlemen would
take their stands, and say that this was a system
which must not be,moved ; yet this was the sys-
.tem generally persevered in till the commencement
of the presentsreign. The situation of the Catho-
lics till 1769, was such as he had stated. Cut off
from all-the social relations in life—the lavir inter-
fering between the husband and wifea—between the
- child and his father—leading the wife to fotego her
duties—the child to treachery and, diSobedieuce—
offering a premium tothe sonto rebel against, hia pa-
rent, and disfranchising the father orrtheallegianee

'Of the "ion—a(4l-lear). such Mode of proceeding
was not in the true spirit of British Legislation;
yet that was the blessed period in. which those
who argue agsnl3t innovation would wish to con-
tinue.. To disturb the Penal Code was consider-
ed by theirs' as an innovation. To the institution.
.thus formed belonged the peculiar quality of • de-
cay., for when at the age of maturity,. before it
began to flourish it began to decay. Other sys-.
tents after they wereonatured spread and flourish-.
ed. It was not until the expiration of fourteen
years. that the first relaxation of the Penal Code
was put in practice. In' 1774 the Government
of Ireland. fintod. that they gave way, Was it
not true that in .the
.history of the Penal Code
political clisaffecti on. was made the. ground of obL
jection to granting those roncessions'ewhieh the
subjects demanded as 'a right ? In all the reigns
to which be had referred,-the objection was held.
Jr. BOrnett's History of the reign of Elizabeth,
asfar as regards,.the latter end of that reign, her
Secretary, Waisingham, said, '' that her mind
was averse to persecutiona-ethat it was not until
the liSt twenty years of her reign that she relaxed
from her mercy; to persecute the Catholics, not
for religious scruples, but for the sake of poll.-
tical- opinions." This opinion was maintained
by various writers before the relaxation of the
Penal Code. An eminent writer, Justice Black-
'stone, •had borne.testiinony to the truth of this
assertion. The Right 'Hon.. Gentleman referred
•
to the opinion of that eminent person in respect
to the 'laws .affecting Papists, and quoted a long
extract from that celebrated writer in-furtherance
of his positions. • The Right Hon. Gentleman
then referred to the preambles and provisions of
various acts passed in Ireland upon the question
of relaxation-since 1774, which generally went to
premise that the: Catholics-were of peaceable de-.
meanour, and affectionate attachment to the State,
Arid therefore they enacted that certain tests should ,
be-proposed and accepted 'by the Catholics, as a
means of conciliating the people, and uniting the
"'resources and Strength of the empire. •- He
would ask those -most elamortnis for the con-
tiuuance. of- the disabilities,. who were not
anxious to depart from ancient :usage, 'when
and where :the wisdom- of our ancestors was
to 13,: found, Which should induce them to
stand up for a system which flourished 'for
a short time, but which had been Gradually
going to - decay for 'the last 50 years. It was for
them to shew to the House where the hazard of
innovation lay. Experiments had been tried, told'
as, matter of history would speak more forcibly
than any thing he could state. Relaxations had,
been tried, and what was the consequence;
danger had occurred ; on the contrary security to
the State had followed. The Govermnent of Ire-
. land had given to the experiments thus made com-
plete-operation, and abstaining from the exercise
of those principles, which in more violent times
had been resorted to for the extermination of the
Popish population of the country, which was en-,
deavoured to be effected by the enactment of
statutes, imposing the disabilities to which he had
• alluded. The question was, therefore, whether
in the subsequent statutes passed, in which he
was disposed to admit that More of lenitv, of con-
ciliation, and mihhiess had been shewn, there was
not more of wisdom. To illustrate the wisdom
of dealing nobly by those in your power; be
would refer to Ancient Roman history : the Re-
poblic's arms were victorious when surrounded
,by theSamnites at the Caudine. The vietoeious
General, when in posses,iOn of the defeated army,
sent a message to an ancient Senator,
,his father,
to lino* -what he should do' with the vanouisfied
army. The answer 'to the message was, " Disj
miss them unransomed an] unarmed." ,This an-
swer not seeming correct to the Captain, he dise.
patched the Messenger 'again to the Oracle,
.re-
quiring another answer. The secOnd reply was
—" ExtermiCate them to the last men." The
contrast between the two answers so astbaished
the ComMander, that he conceived the intellects
of his father were- impaired, and he sent again, ,
and he -was brought before hiM .to the Camp
when asked' how he reconciled the two Conflicting
Answers? he replied :—" My first council was to
send off the vanquished, and in so doing you would
have conferred a benefit on your country, for you
would have secured to it the everlasting grati-
tude of a \brave and powerful people." .being
required to. explain his- second answer, he reaee
plied, " My second council was the. consequence.,
of your not attending to my first; for if you ex-
terminated that army, you had resolved not to
grant- Mercy to; you would have got rid of a
determined enemy.'h Instead of attending to this
advice, he neither eXterininated nor conciliated;
but' pasSed- them home under a yoke. If it. was
necessary formerly to conciliate, and identify the
Popish part of Ireland with the Protestant part
of the Empire, lt'would not be 'denied that, such
an union was new more than ever desirable.--=
' With•respect to all the old-fashioned doctrines,
that 'Catholics denied that it was possible to keep
faith with heretics, these were, or certainly ought
to be by this time, entirely exploded. The re-
cognition of such doctrines as these would imply
a detestable principle little suited to the caught-.
coed spirit of the times. The tests which for the
last 30 years they had been in the practice of sub-
sceibing to, were proof of the sincerity of their
attachment to the•Governntent of the Realms: It
was a curious fact,' not generally known, what
sort of oaths the -Sovereigns of .Scotland took at
the Restoration. King William and Queen Miry
had; in the oath which they took to govern that
kingdom, a clause to this effect We swear
to be careful to root out all heretics convicted by
the true Kirk of Scotland and of God, of any
crimes." • Now. what mode did they take of root-.
ins; out these heretics ? Why, King William re—
monstrated against the oath ; but the Commis-
sioners told him, that he must put his own con 4
struction upon it, and being of opinion that it
meant no such thing, be consequently swallowed
the oath.'lt' would be a little hard. to say 'that
King William, in a metaphorical sense, rooted
out heretics. The Right Hon. and Learned Dr.
Duigenan, who, drew up the oath of the Sta--
tute passed in Ireland in 1793, held, that 'both
were nut bioding on the fugitive and volatile con-
sciences of Catholics,' and he framed such an oath
as'they were bound to digest. TheLearnen D6c-
tor had said that the Catholics were not quiet
dontented—that .they looked abroad—and that

•
they Would rather be the stinject tit any Ottlig state
in Europe. His objection to a doctrine of this
kind.was cif atwo-fold nature. In the first place,
.he (Mr. C.) did not like to teach them to look
abroad for comparisons—the-best way of dealing
with them, was to enable them to make compari-
sons of their state with that of their fellow-sub- '
jests at home, and. to Coavince theirm, that though
they roamed abroad for speettlative ideas of 'hap-
piness, yet their feelings and wishes ought to be
at twine, which would have the effect of feeon-
ening them with their situations at hone. When
-we looked to the Continent, and saw all. nations)._
tongues, and languages, and creeds, fighting
. under one banner against us, it was time to recur-
cite the differences upon religious. matters—it
was time to aini, e the aftections,,aod to secure the
loya;ty of the people. If we looked to Rwsia,
and examined time polity of that great power
marching at the head oran immense. force with
an Arch-Choneellor, Roman Catholic Seeretary,
and a Protestant General, and looked to Austeia;
saw Hungary in. 1809, when Buonaparte issued a
proclamation, inviting the people to throw off the.
yoke of Austria, at a time when they had a Ro-
man Catholic Government, a Protestant
and three schiSmatie churches, these. WP,S surely
something to-induce the Government of this coun-
try to. imitate the spirit of coneiljation which bad
animated the other nations of the' world. Wintt
was the conduct of Spain, 'in whose cause we
were so eager—to whom we recommended a
liberality of system. with rOpect to her Colo.
nies ? Would not Spain, if we persevered in- our
conduct to Ireland, turn back and desire us to look
at home, before we ventured to dictate to them
in the administration tof the Government of
their ColOnies?, Such a retort iniolt be reason-
ably expected, There Were tiniSe who, , referring
tothe transactions ofancient limes, held them up
to deter any concession to the C.,"ttliolies. GOod
God ! what' Would be said of theoCatholies, if
they, adverting- to the cruelties of Anabaptists
ofMurister; to the blood-thirstinesS of Henry
and Elizabeth,; represente&thent as the tenets Of
the reformers.? To such 'inferences .we should
object; but tbe.Catholies. had asnnuelm right to
refer to them as we to the practices of their pro-
getritoeS. • Such horrible atrocities in cold: blood,
only proVed the danger of allowing religions to
mix with political rcclin Nothing could be
more repreoensilmle than the -various attempts
niade t(s recalltheattention of thepeople to scenes
of former times, with which the present feelings.
and disposition of the Catholics-had nothing to
do. Anion?: the.most culpable of these was a pub-
lication illitstrted by plates, which it was shock- '
ing to see in every shop -window, describing the
massacre of St. Bartholomew, and which was..cal-
cuiated
.to produce the. most mischieVous effects.
Why was this published. at the present" Moment
What was the curiosity that demanded it.? Whit
bad the present-British. public to do with Charles ;
1.X.0 or ..A.dnoiral Coligny ? Why, for a :petty
triumph on a political question, . risk by such ex-
posuees, the tranquility of an_ Empire? The-
most, atrocious-O'nart of the, :,,publication 'was
the dedication to the memory of the Right
Honourable. Spencer Percevalo., the Prime Mi
nister-of these Realues,„ whose relative situation, it
stated, thongli naturally, to the. -eStablishraents of
this country, similar to:that Of the chief vie-
tiin of themassacre of Si. Bartholomew to France;
-end Who, like himofell a martyr to his.doty to his
King, to his Country, to his -dod! SoliOpuElent
an attempt, within a abort month of the tranisa.c,..
tion to.which it referred, did not jive in the re-
.cords'of violenee aod'infanaY:' .The House would
do him the justice to believAL 'That in- saying this
he was actuated by no political or-per,
son al animosity, towards his late. Right Hononr,,
able F-iend. Were he -.(Mr. Perceval) in that
House oa the present occasion; be trysted• they
would diseuss ,thelanestiAn'befOrethem with the
feeling brothers: He knew not who was totake
his Right.-Hon Friend's'stand, hekneW not who
was to wear .his annOur, bitt he kneW that he wont('
willinglyundergothe force of his arguments, so the
House could have' the delight and advantage
of presenee.—The concluding part of the pre-
face of the. work to wh-ich .ime had just. alluded,
showed the feelings of the Writer. It declared,
that the massacre of Si. 'Bartholomew conveyed to
posterity the truth" thati'opists kept no faith with
Ifrotestants , It was• a curious fact that this was
not the first time thatthe massacre of St. Bartho-
lomewhad been used .for vile 'and Sinister pur-
poses: . Mro Burke,: in his letter on the French
Revolution, mentiOnedoits having been brought
forward oil the Parisians stage in the early part
of that Revolution, and that the object was• clear-,
ly to teach the ildeabitants of Paris to persecute.
Reverting to o the imthediate subject :which was
_the obje t of. his motion, he observed:that the
highest authorities Were.tin the-side ottheCatho-
.lies. Mr, littrke, whose prophetic celerity outran
that of any other human being'—Mr. Fox, Whose
loVe of liberty was most. ardent-731r. I.Vindham
with a mind cast in another 'mould; who observ-,
ed with apprehension' an, approach to. extension
of .civil liberty---Me,Pitt,.Whose ardent .attach-
meat .to the 'established religion of his country,
was tempered and restrained by genera.' and prac
teal views
,of human naturee,all concurred in.
supporting the claims of the'!. Catholics. The
question ‘.!..7C3 not what were the, ekisting dangers,
but' hoW additional concessions would increase.
them ? It lay on the opponents of • concession to
prove, that one further step would establish. the
Popish' Chnech to;the destruCtion
of the Proteitant. lt'had been said, that Parlia-
Meat ought not to give political. power to. Irish
Catholics. They bad given it. • They had given-
the elective franchise. to, • them. Under the
ciretunstanCes of a il?parate Tarliament, he
,could
easily understand wiry :any. hesitation '.inight
take- place • With respect to the admission, of
Catholics into that Parliament, lest they-should
out-number the Protestants ; but, in the Parlia-,
Meat,. of'the 7:'United,EMpirt, he 'bad no diffi-
cuttyiyt that a. *Tired Catholic_ Gen-
tlemen" is OOLI be le,s's dangerous,.
danger were .a term at all applicable in- the pre-
sent' ease), than a large hotly of Catholic -flee:::
tors let. loose to followthe di6ates! of their own
inclinetion, and who perhaps -wOuld exact from
their RepreseiltatiVes greater deference to 'their
inelioations, for the want of.
,sympathy which
mast exist . between them. it had been refused

to admittsl'..k*: asiineoaislita l f rank,. Weft
and' for Virtue, and the co-attain herd had been
permitted to enter the pale of concession: 116
concession must be complete if that proposition'
were made by piece-meal, if would be froth time
to time rejected. He was most anxious that,the
Ct'aaholics should be taken out of the handS of
those.who agitated them for their own purposes.
TO correct the minds of ssch persons was beyond
hunian power ; but it was within human poWer to
rob them of th pretexts for disturbing the ge-
neral 'tranquility; and next to -the gratificatios
:which he aaollici feel in seeing the Catholics pose
asessed of their tfgletS,Wiiiild': that of finding tidk
:disturbers of thc. phbliepeaccto Which he had ,ala
luded, disappointed in their 'expectations. It had _'r
been said in another place; that when, the Ca/4"-
,tho!ies were asked to give security for the existing
esteslishasents, they replied, «Sheer us the danger.
to them." . A fair answer. If the - Catholics- dict
not. see the;dangers, how could they becXpecte4
to suggest the security w:as•their hudnesS td•
submit to the provisions of security, but :not. tO"
provide them-. Adverting to the irritating speechei
and, :‘,--ritihgs during the American :war, whicli
were productiye of so much misehitf. he entreat,.
ed' the House to:be cautious lidsv they stativrect
such productionS of unauthorized men -is the pre'
,sent-day ,to produce similar effects with respeet
the. Catholics:.; Let not Great Britain shut lief
eyes to the example of other countries. In the
great empire. of , Russia existed a Catholic' estair
hlishmenta and Episcopacy not dcpendent..onrthl
Pope, except spiritually. hi France;, the Cathol'
lie Church 'experienced a liberty from the thoP"
dom of the Pope, which it did not enjoyeevenaia
the days' of Louis the Fourteenth... ;When W
saw all this, when -we saw that it was impossi"
We' the Pope could recover, his power ; wti
we. saw the Mitigated spirit which prevailed in,
modern times, and which 'Mitigated and allayed'
the violence of religiorss dissensions; surely via
could not. consider it alipiricult to unite with eon'
cession to the , Catholics 'seeurity to the Prist6te.
ant Church. He avould a'bstaiu froru dWelliag ou
that part of the subject, because he thought
would be" enough• in the present iastance for Par'
liament to declare its deteredination to take till
sahjecteinto its own consideration with a view t'"
a conciliation, and toe-the adoption of; any alccl.
nor measure which the Executive Goyernmelit,
the interval of the appr*liing- recess, mig'l4l
have an opportunity Of devising and modifyillk
In framing the
.'propositibn which le was 10)014
to submit'to the House, he had followed two p
cecinas ; the one; that of Mr. Secretary Foxe 1.
1783, which gave to Ireland apolitical ConstL;
tution ; the .other, that which preceded: the filial
abolition' of the Slave Trade. In ahe .first of th-e 5.
'cases, 'Mr. Fox moved a Resolution thatfritb
ll'oilse` in the, next 'Session would take the. sot
jest into consideration. That resolution Nv".'
communicated: to the House' of Lords, and in-the
next. Session (altho'ugh a dissolution Of Tafli3;
meat: intervened), a. Bill -Was -carried thedass;
the House. to effect the desired object:" It -
true that. Mr. rex was at that period - power'
and. the Executive Goyernuient was theaosV4r.
prised. of the
,proposition.. To supply-04.440'1
in the present instance, he should m c oase tfl'°°t
Resolution, to lay his fiest Resolutida at the
of hiS Royal Highness the 13,egent. slia;e"`,1:0=1;
ed the House. to consider, that if t4hey„l-r1
it.,
take. the question into their Own...eh:lab-a-
would not therefore rest.. A subject alfec
to
ing so large a • proportion, amounting
nearly a half of the populatioo
it was in vain to hope woultrreniaite-Kiagit3h
If left to licliseussed out of .dadis';-''it.- 'was .
known to what heads and liandS.ii-Wotif-d4)ecti.e
signed, and in w'aat tone. 'it Would be-taken-hAsi,'?'
Whoever advised Parliament to turn the''ireg'-
, the
loose upon the people, instead of Cullutlilig,
-discussion of it within.the.Wallseof that 1-I"u'e.:
incurred,, in his opinion, a deep and 1,04.0 /ha
Before- he made , his :motion, tes
wished to say a few win* wit:hre:pea rior
Roman Catholics Of England. 13. y their exentr nth
cohduct theY.liad entitled themselaea, to the oce
most indulgence of Parliament. -• In this inst3the
they had waved any particular application to iii,
Legislature, and wished their claims- to be. e,
eluded iii the general 'consideration. He cont.,..'iot
ed by moving the following. Resolution ea--
the. House will, early in the 'next: Session -of 'eas
liathent, 'take into its Most: serious conside'''r 10,
the state of the Laws 11..tectieg his Majesty's e,
man Catholic subjects in Great Britain awr
l 'tora
land, with a view to such a final and coeci"
lid
adjustment as 'may be conducive to the peaceeility
- strength of the United Kingdom, to the stsw ee,
of the Protestant Establishment; and to the ni4
neral satisfactiOn and concord of all Classes Of
'Majesty's' Siihjectse • •
tioa
General Marrnew' had objected to the
Le
brokiehf forward on thisssuhjeet by aes•loble.
ill-ti ale
merely on account of its having been beet
the Petitions of the .Catholics not having rae
before Parliaments He regretted- that the Ptiee
position had not proceeded from the El'eCu of
Government. It was true, that the opi-Oict to
his Roy ail, Highness the 'Regent; with resP‘',
aogs•
the claims of the. Catholics had materially.o
ed ; but :he reprobated the language Trivet `.:.4,0
daily lusta towards his:Royal Highness, as he Lies
persuaded. that : his 'Royal t lighnessWas 31' toe
bottom of his heart a friend to lrelaud, anidigritaa-
' Empire.at large, although his great and en . (oat,
ed mind had been miged. by evil and hie e
islet
Counsellois." 'He proceeded to advert to. oedet
tory, of former rebellions is lielatid, woo
to. prose 4 the loyalty of the Catholics, ,j be
'were 'not concerned in those,
miseries of -Ireland-, he dated from the dep'4l:l,.
Earl Fitzwilliam from the Government.o.Vore,
• country. From that period; bigotry, intoitr, oe
:'biipreilion, cruelty, and 'coercipu, became. wie-
ties:
'Roya -1'
der of the' day. The speech of a as the
(the Duke of Sussex), in another place,
best he had ever heard in proef of the lori
r air dia
li
the Irish Catholics. Ministers, by ta. Lar oft
cal. machinations, had infected the 'Roy" cove to;
this Subject, and if. any Member .Would 010).
I:,ebeiFon,3.,ure
O.
impeech them for their conduct, b.e a 5 siredcatil
that h should ootevant a seconder, I.'net,t,nie,P,
paupers' into ' though they, lioN:11'
(teach
in' ease- and affluence. "'People of -VAte 014.
exclaimed the General, "
!: criminal conduct to lae allowed recede-