The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-05 00:00:00

hear)—some said that it involved fraud and perjury
( Hear, hear, hear.) Ho appealed to any Honour-
able Member who would take a dispassionate and
enlightened view of the question, whether it was not
desirable to put an end to such an inconvenient, unseemly,
and mischievous state of thingw —( Hear, hear.) It was
a matter of comparatively little importance whether they
were done in one or in two Bills; but any measure which
should beneficially alter the mode of registration in Ire-
land, and would leave this prime and radical evil un-
touched, would effect nothing in the way of sound and
statesmanlike legislation. If doubt and uncertainty were
attached to the present state of the franchise, certainly the
best remedy would be that which would place it on such a
basis that there could be no conflict of opinion.--( Bear,
hear.) He was anxious that a basis for the qualification
should be selected distinct from the franchise and from all
electioneering matters. Further, that the basis should be
one that furnished a counteracting check against the intro-
duction of the operation of any such matter. lie thought
he bad found such a basis in the valuation for the Poor-
law rate as prescribed by the recent Act fur the intro Inc-
tion of Poor-laws into Ireland. It showed upon the flee of
it a fixed and definite view, and bad been used for purposes
solely distinct from the franchise, in opposition to any
desire to be placed on Cie registry, They had then the
desire, which was far more prominent and prevalent in
mankind, namely, that of sparing himself any pecuniary
burden he could avoid. He was glad to find that these
views and opinion% which came recnmmended by sound
reason and common sense, had been strongly recom-
mended by persons whose authority he would rather have
had than that of any others on such a question ; because it
was that of persons who took a moderate view of political
questions and belonged to both sides of the House. It was
said by an Hon. Friend of his, whom he did not then see
in his place, the Hon. Baronet the Member fur M allow
( Sir .1. D. Norreys), on the occasion of a similar measure
being introduced by the Attorney-General in the course of
last Session—. That ho regretted the Attorney-General
had left the franchise open to dispute, and to be decided
by opinion instead of facts. lie thought the subject w. 11
worthy the attention of the Right Hon. Gentleman, now that
Ireland had been valued for the purposes of rating under
the Poor-law Act, whether that might not be made the
basis of the franchise. By the present Bill the proof of
value was given upon oath, and landlord was arrayed
against tenant in the unnatural struggle. It would be most
desirable that a certain standard of qualification should be
adopted, which would render the franchise incapable of
being questioned or controverted, lie hoped such a
plan would be adopted. He was followed by the
Honourable Member for Monaghan opposite, whose
words he would now quote to the House. (The
Noble Lord then read an extract from a speech de-
livered by Mr. Lucas during the course of last Session, in
which that Hon. Gentleman stated that he agreed with the
Hon. Member for Mallow as to the necessity of devising
some method of exactly ascertaining the franchise, and
that he thought the Poor-law valuation might very advan-
tageously be adopted for that purpose.) He would not
quote what he himself had said on th at occasion, although
he was under a strong temptation of doing so, if only for
the purpose of showing how little he was subject to the
charge of inconsistency for now appearing as the advocate
of the Poor -law franchise. The Noble Lord had the other
night taunted him on this subject, he supposed as a return
for his having given that N able Lord his vote on the only
occasion on which he did give it him during the course of
the last Session ; but that speech would clearly show that
he was not open to any such charge, because he gave as
his reason for opposing the proposition of the Ii ,n. Mem-
ber for Mallow, that at that period there was no power of
ascertaining the amount of the Poor-law valuation. lie
would now proceed to quote from a speech relating to the
ascertaining the franchise, delivered not on the subject of
the Registration, nor of the Poor- law, nor during the course
of the last Session of Parliament, but delivered in the month
of Msy 1838 by the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for
Tamworth, whose absence on the present occasion he
(Lord Morpeth) deeply regretted, on the subject of the
franchise under the Municipal Corporation Act. (The
Noble Lord here read an extract from the speech of Sir
Robert Peel delivered on the occasion alluded to its which
the Right Hen. Baronet stated, that he would not consent
to a mun'cipal franchise, which should be so uncertain as
the Parliamentary one, • and should give rise to a Cern•
mittee for the purpose of ascertaining the number of
fictitious votes on the register—that he thought the best
franchise to be adopted would be one that would act as a
check upon those seeking to obtain it, and that he thought
the Poor-law valuation would be the most desirable
standard for ascertaining the franchise that could be
adopted.) These extracts which he had read completely
confirmed the view he had taken as to the necessity of
fixing and ascertaining the franchise, and adopting such a
standard for that purpose as should in itself afford a suffi-
cient cheek. He thought he had shown the House that
the Government, in the course they had adopted were
fortified by reason and authority in asking the House to
accede to this proposition for fixing the franchise accords
ing to the Poor- law valuation. He was ass are that
there remained not the least difficult task to be performed,
and the one not the least open to discussion—he meant the
settlement of the amount at which it would be desirable
that the franchise should be fixed. He was aware that he
was approaching rather stormy confines, and that it was
hardly to be hoped that what he had to propose would be
equally acceptable to both parties in that House; be only
hoped that whatever differences of opinion might arise on
that point, the House would believe that in what they were
about to propose the Government had been actuated by
honest motives, and had proceeded on reasonable grounds.
It was usually apprehended on the part of those who were
friendly to a liberal interposition, that there was not a
valuation of every tenement as required by the provisions
of the Poor-law, and that the many deductions from the
clear value, and the desire which was so inherent in the
mind of every person who was liable to be rated under
the Act to have the amount of his contribution reduced to
the lowest possible level in almost any amount of rating con-
nected with the Poor-law rate, would have thee- ffect of raising
the standard for the elective franchise higher than required
by the Reform Act now in force. He had before expressed
in the House, as he had already intimated, his own opinion
that it would be highly expedient to connee. the standard
of the elective franchise especially with the Poor-law rate,
as the most satisfactory assessment of the kind which
could be furnished. He had at the same time to
explain that in the previous year they were not furnished
with sufficient information as to the probable working
and result of the Poor-law valuation, and that consequently
it would be premature to have recourse to any final legis-
lation on such a basis. II c was afraid that even at this
day they were not furnished with as complete information
as could be wished on the point, but such information as it
had been in their power to gain they bad thought it their
duty to exert themselves to attempt to acquire, and to col-
lect and digest as they best could. As soon as his
Right Honourable Friend reached Ireland after the
last Session, he had put himself in communica-
tion with the Poor-law Commissioners, in order to
obtain information in what unions the valuations were in
such a state of forwardness as to afford the mast light on
the subject, and also as to the working and result of the
whole system in the different parts of the country, and
under different authorities, positions, and circumstances. His
Right lion. Friend the Attorney-General for Ireland select-
ed two gentlemen of his own profession, on whose character
he could place the greatest reliance, and they were di-
rected under the advice of the Poor-law Commissioners,
to repair to such unions as he pointed out as most likely
to laud the fullest information that could lie obtained, and
there to inquire as fully as they could into the nature of
the mode in which they were drawn up, and where they
could obtain information as to the lists of registered Elec-
tors. in pursuance of those instructions, those gentlemen
vialted unions in Longford, Belfast, Kilkenny, Cork, Ar-
magh, and other places. Now,
it certainly was to be
wished that they could have comprised more unions in
their inqu'ry, but the imperfect state in which they found
many valuations prevented this from being the cese.
The uniformity they had observed in the course of the pro-
ceedings in all the districts they had visited, and the diffe-
rence of the circumstances in these respective unions, gave
them reason to hope that the results they had taken were
a fair sample of what would appear on the whole surface
of Ireland. lie was sorry to trespass upon the
patience of the House, but he felt it was necessary
that he should impart to them something of the main sub-
stance and principal results of the inquiry which had been
submitted to the Government, and he thought he should
do so more briefly if he quoted the parties' own words ; he
would condense them as much as possible, but as they
formed the ground work of the proposition which ho had
now to make, he trusted the House would bear with him,
while he quoted a few extracts. They said that they bad
inspected the rule books in every union, and the minutes
of the board of guardians, and had extracted the valua-
tions, that generally they found a uniformity. The Corn.
mittee appointed in all the unions that had been visited,
came to the resolution that a new valuation was necessary.
In the unions visited, an opinion prevailed that the valua-
tion under the Poor-law, ,vouid influence the landlord? in
determining the amount of the rent; and a desire also
existed that the relative value of the tenements should
be ascertained, that each might bear their burthens pro.
portionally.
Mr. O'CONNELL inquired who were the valuers?
Lord moßPuTit said Nlr. Haines and Mr. Vescy,
who had made most minete inquiries in each maims. The
Noble Lord then teed reports from several other unions
to the same effect, but which it would be vain to endea-
vour to report without having the documents themselves.
lie knew not whether, from these stetementsi the Nettle
Lerd might net reitkoii upon ii as a triumph, that there
were many 101. freehelders on the registry who should not
be placed there. However that might be, he thought it
right to put the House in posEcssion of the true and core
rect state of the Case. He thought the test that he ilag
about to propose Was fully equal to the test of the beneficial
interest, or the test of what a solvent tenant would give.
He thought that the facts and circumstanceswltith he
had pointed out went to show that a rated net value of tut.
under the Poor.liw Act would range ve r,r far indeed
above either the solvent tenant test or ttie occupiers
profit feet. In fact,
v°L.
thana' .rare
lue
the standard fur the election franchise r.
way
net clearva that hze,f.te w cit;ed many.
Ilootelest
raitte
abuse. lie Was aware that if the test of the -.
was at present, even where there was no suspicion of
Commissioners was applied to the elective franchise there
would be in some instances a contrary MotiVedo induce
persons to have themselves rated higher: but he thought
that would operate veryhe Right Hon. Baronet feebly in thehad been illustrated by he
human breast, as
ber for TattiWorth i the prlellegn of voting being only
enjoyed occasionally, and after considerable intervals,
t.the Mein=
while the pressure of the Poor-law rate upon his purse or
his pocket formed an annual drawback and annoyance.
When they were called upon to make an alteration in the
elective franchise, ft could hardly be considered expe-
dient by those who had head the statements in that
House, and which could not impugned, being Parlia-
mentary documents, the comparative number which et:.
joy ed elective franchises in both countries being extremely
small. As regarded Ireland, he did not Fish to enter upon
that point of the inquiry, it being the peculiar province of
the lion. and Learned Member for Dublin.—(Hoar, hear,
hear.) But he would not do justice to that part of the ert
gument if he did not briefly call the attention of the Howe
to wile of -the most strikiair 'vaults 31.00ukulf ba