The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-05 00:00:00

IDOLATRY IN INDIA.

Sir R. INGLIS rose to put some questions to Ole
Right Hon. President of the Board of Control, relative
to the connexion which existed between the East India
Company and the idolatrous practices in India. The
House was aware that, when he had asked the ques.
tion last year, the Right Honourable Gentleman
had referred him to certain extracts from a
despatch of Lord Auckland, partly public and
party private, in which it was stated that the
system worked well, and that the objects in view were
advancing slowly and steadily. Now, although the
Right Hon. Gentleman said he would lay all the docu-
ments connected with the subject on the table, he had
only given extracts from that despatch.—(Cries of
" Question.") Ile wished to know whether the Right
Hon. Gentleman would lay the whole of that despatch
on the table, he having only made extracts from it ?
Ni.xc, whether upon any authority, wh, tiler public or
private, the Rigi.t Hon. Gentleman could state upon
his own respousibdity that the system had worked
well in British India or any of its dependencies?
The next question which he wished to propose was,
whether the Right Hon. Baronet felt himself at liberty
to st Ito to the Ilouse if any of the grievances under
which British uldiers in India laboured, had been re-
moved. It he could not state that, as he feared he
could not state anything sat'sfactoril) on the subject,
whether he had any objection to state that he would take
care that those grievances of her Majesty's subjects in
India, to which he (Sir R. 11. Inglis) referred, would
cease on the Ist of January, or at any other definite
period.
,_

Sir J. C. HOB HOUSE said that, with respect to
the quotations which he made in July last, ho had no
objection to place them before the House. He had
said that those documents were partly of a private, and
partly of a public, nature. One of the letters which
he (Sir J. C. Hohhouse) had received on the sub.
j set, was a private letter from Lord Auckland.
Before replying to the questions of his Hon. Friend, he
world beg to state that he believed that those papers
or which he had moved at the close of last Session,
would furnish his Hon. Friend with much more ample
information than he at present possessed on this most
delicate question. These papers were not printed before
the close of last Session ; the Order had not been re-
newed during the present Session ; and consequently
they had not been presented to the House. It was
his intention that night to move to renew that Order,
and in addition to move for the production of other
papers which he thought would prove satisfactory
to his Honourable Friend. With respect to the
further question of his Honourable Friend, whether,
he thought that anything had been done respecting
the settlement of this unfortunate question, for so he
thought he was entitled to call it, he had the satisfac-
tion of stating that he thought much had been done to-
wards the settlement of it. Wh;t had been done in
the Presidency of Bengal had been, in his opinion,
with one exception, entirely satisfactory ; and when
he looked to what had been done with regard to the
pilgrim tax, and with regard to the Juggernaut tax, he
thought that much lied been done. He should also
lay before the House despatches from the Government
of Bombay to the Government of India, stating the
steps which they had adopted for carrying cut the
orders of Lord Auckland, which lie thought would
prove satisfactory to his Honourable Friend.—(Hear.)
Tnere was one exception, which was, the Presidency
of Madras. He would confess to his Hon. Friend he
had been disappointed by what had taken place in the
Presidency at Medras. When he had last addressed
the House on this subject, he had stated that he had
received despatches from the Governor-General of India,
stating that he was in hopes that measures would be
adopted for carrying into effect his orders on this subject
in the Presidencies of Bombay and Madras. As he had
before stated, those orders had been carried into effect
in the Presidency of Bombay. But his Honour-
able Friend would find in the despatches a state-
ment that the propositions which had been made by
the Governmcnt of Madras to the Government of India,
for carrying into effect the orders of the Government of
India were unsatisfactory, and that the Government
of India, he was happy to state to his Hon. Friend,
had issued such orders as would have the effect of pre-
venting the Government of Madras being any longer
behind hand in carrying into effect orders of the
Government of India and the desire of the British Parlia-
ment. It was his duty at. the same time, in defence of his
Noble Friend Lord Ephinstone and his Council, to
state that he believed whet had been done by them
was owing to a misunderstanding of the instructions
from the Board of Directors and the Government at
borne . But the Government had since given instructions
sa distinct that there could be no room nor excuse
for further mistake ; and the Governor of Madras would
in future act in conformity with the regulations passed
for the guidance of the other Presidencies.—( Hear,
hear.) He had now answered the questions of the
Hon.: Gentleman relating to the three Presidencies.
With respect to the other matter put to him,
namely, the attendance of the troops at the re-
ligious service of the Hindoos, he begged to refer
the Hon. Gentleman to the despatch of 1833, in
which it was most pointedly laid down that the
troops were not in any way to be compelled to attend
at any festival which was not consonant with the
principles of the Christian religion—(Hear)—and that
no Mahommelan should be compelled to attend at Hindoo
religious ceremonies, and no Hindoo at Alahommedan
worship.—( Hear, hear.) His Hon. Friend had asked
him whether that regulation had been carried into effect
in India. Now he could only say that he was not aware
that it had been violated. He had before him a letter,
stating that the troops had attended at a Hindoo
festival, and had done honour to the ceremonies under
pretence (.f attending as an escort to the Prince.
He was not aware that this was the case. He had
certainly not made any inquiry, but no complaint had
been made to him. He could state, however, that if
such a cue were brought under the notice of the
Court of Directors they would do everything in
their power to prevent its recurrence ; and
more than that, if they had reason to believe
that their wishes were not attended to, or their
orders not properly obeyed, then they would take the
earliest opportunity of sending out such instructions
as would nut a stop to practices so objectionable. Of
course, a great distinction must be taken between the
attendance of troops at public processions, and their
forming a guard of honour and going into the temples.
Ile had inquired whether there had been any additional
information lately from India upon the subject,
but had ascertained that there was not. He ha:iieved
there was no case in which compulsore
attendance
.
was resorted to, and although '.ne disturbance had .9
token place at Madras hetwe a troop of native infantry
and cavalry, lie had not 'oeen able to ascertain its cause.l
He should, howeeeer, feel it his duty to make further

JUVENILE OFFENDERS.
Sir E. WILNIOT begged to ask the Right Hon.
the Attorney-General, e hether in the reforms contem-
plated in the administration of justice, there was
any intention on the part of the Government
to establish a tribunal for the trial of juvenile offenders,
in cues of petty larceny. He had himself been informed
of two cases, one of a child for stealing an egg, and
another for stealing sixpence, in neither of which could
any punishment be inflicted, the children having been
already two months in prison.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL would strongly
support any proposition of the Right Hon. Baronet to
carry such an object into effect, but as thert; had been
considerable division upon the subject, the Government
had given him no instructions to
,prepare 44 measure
on the subject.

Sir E. WILMOT wished to know whether it
intended to make the Quarter Session Courts in exist_
ence effective, because in Birmingham they merely
met pro forma, and were unable to transact any
Y
business for want of funds. All the expense at present
tell upon the county, and he would be glad if the
Government would state whether it was intended ;o
make these Courts valid or do away with them altogether.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said Or: question
would hare been settled thug since, but they had been
;suiting for the decision of the Judges in the Exchequer
Chamber on the subject of the Manchester charter

PUNISHMENT OF DEATH.
Mr. FITZROY KELLY begged to ask whe-
ther it was the intention of the Government
to propose any measure for the further abolition of
capital punishment, and if so, whether it would
be as extensive as that which he had the honour to in-
troduce last Session ?

Mr. FOX MAULE said that it was the inten-
tion of her Majesty's Government to bring forward
a measure on the subject of the abolition of the
punishment of death. He was not, however, pre-
pared to say that it would be coextensive with
the measure which the Hon. and Learned Member had
formerly introduced. The Hon. and Learned Member
would soon have an opportunity of becoming acquainted
with the measure, as he hoped it would be introduced
before the Idpse of another month.
Mr. KELLY ths.3l gave uotico that he would, ou

Tuesday next, bring forward the motion of which he
had given notice for leave to bring in his Bill.
REGISTRATION OF VOTERS—(IRELAND;.
Lord hIORPETH sail that he confessed he arose
on that occasion with some anxiety, both on
account of the intrinsic merit of the question
itself as well as the special interest which had been
more recently attached to it, from its having, in fact,
served as a pivot on which the struggles of political
parties of late had materially turned, and from
its bringing him into something like rivalry with
the Noble mover of another Registration Bill on
the opposite side of the House in the way in
which rive I-y could alone subsist between them—that
was between the qualities of their respective
measures—certainly not between the proposers. He
would therefore beg that the House would follow him
on the occasion with indulgence and attention.
Whenever the subject had been before them on pre-
vious occasions, as they had been correctly re-
minded by the Noble Lord the Member for North
Lancashire on a previous evening, it had been
allowed upon all hands that great imperfections and
abuses attached to the present question of Registration
in Ireland, which both admitted and called for remedy.
As to the precise extent of those abuses, as to the
degree in which any fraud was practised, and as to its
comparative extent either in this country or in Scotland,
there might be, and he believed there had been diffe-
rences of opinion ; but still it had been admitted gene-
rally that great means and facilities far fraud existed
in the present system of registration in Ireland,
and it had scarcely been denied by any one who had
addressed himself to the subject, that occasional in-
stances of fraud had taken place. The point which
had been most frequently adverted to, was a
system of certificates, and the facilities afforded there-
by for fraudulent personation of either dead or ab-
sent voters, and the retention of persons on the
registry, who, after they had once been placed on the
list, were left there, without any opportunity for subse•
quent correction or revision, during the whole period
for which the registry remained in force—that was,
under the present Irish reform law, for a period of 8 years.
Now those certainly were practices for which no one
would stand up, and which every one who had
spoken on the subject professed himself anxious
to correct.— (Hear.) In any measure, therefore,
which her Majesty's Government would bring forward,
they would endeavour to put an end to such palpable
and obvious abuses as those to which he referred. The
unequal and one•sided system of appeal which was confined
to an appeal in favour of the franchise, which
was limited to the claimant, and denied to the
objector, had also formed a subject of general
complaint. With respect to the appeal on matters of fact,
which, under the Irish Reform Act, were necessarily fully
sifted and decided on before a tribunal duly constituted for
the purpose, which under the Irish Reform Act—and under
the Irish Reform Act alone—were substantiated by thepro-
duction of titles and other documents, and by viva voce
witnesses, none of which things or persons it might be
convenient or feasible to bring again together at another
time, in another place, orj before another tribunal—with
respect to these facts, he did not think it would be fair to
the claimant to grant an appeal or a re-hearing on such
matters of fact.—( Hear, hear.) But he did think it
would be very fair to give the appeal both ways—against
the franchise as well as in favour of it, and to the objector
as well as to the claimant, on all matters of law, on all
points involving the construction of Acts of Parliament, and
the legal merits of the case ; provided always, and it was an
important proviso, and one on which he had always insisted
when he had addressed himself to that part of the subject—
provided that, in the first place, they placed the franchise
on a clear nod distinctly ascertained basis—( Ministerial
cheers)l--not on a basis such as the present, which was
disputed, ambiguous, and of doubtful interpretation.—
(Renewed cheers.) They should not, in his opinion,
leave the entire franchise of the Irish people to a second
ordeal before an upper and professional tribunal, where
points bad to be adjudicated on by a strict, precise, and
technical interprctntion of a doubtful and ambiguous law.
He had, therefore, thus far indicated the lengths which he
was prepared to go with the Noble Lord opposite. He
(Lord Morpeth) was sure it was pleasing to him to travel
in his (Lord Stanley's) company as far as he was able.
They (the Ministers) were prepared to abolish the use of
certificates, and make the register, which might have been
formed under due precautions, the test of the right of
voting at elections. They were prepared to allow an ap-
peal both ways, to the objector as well as to the claimant,
if Parliament should have first consented to place the
franchise on a clear and intelligible footing. With re-
spect to the new periodical revision, he ( Lord Morpeth)
was quite content to take the same course for it as that
selected by his Noble Friend—that was, that it occur once
every year ; but whilst he (Lord Morpeth) allowed the
revision to take place after the interval of one year, he
was not prepared to give up a point for which he com-
bated last year, though without success, which was to
deprive the Irish voter of that facility and advantage
which he now enjoyed of preferring his claim to register
at the quarterly Court of the Assistant Barrister—the or-
dinary Court of Quarter Sessions. That was a facility
which the Irish voter had long enjoyed. It was a Court
with which he was familiar, and to which all the habits
and customs of his life naturally accustomed him. Ho
( Lord Morpeth) would not be for taking from him
those advantages and accommodations which he had
for a long time past possessed. When the voter was once
placed on the register, he ( Lord Morpeth) proposed
that he should be subject to have his title to vote annually
celled in question ; that was the periodical revision which
he mentioned, and which should constitute the annual in-
quiry into the original qualification, by virtue of which
ttie voter was placed on the register. If nothing occurred
to disturb that right—if everything remained the same,
he ( Lord Morpeth) contended that the strict searching
investigation which the Irish Reform Act prescribed in
the first instance was quite sufficient, and he could not
make his right to retain his vote subject to any further
disturbance ; and he (Lord Morpeth) could not assent to
that part of the scheme of the Noble Lord opposite which
made the voter, after his title had been clearly decided,
liable to have it called in question every succeeding year
—( Hear, hear, from the Ministerial side of the flouse)—
and which would cause what had been settled one year to
tie called in question the next year, and so on, to the end
of all recorded time. That was not an extreme case
which he was supposing—it was one which, in the present
condition of circumstances, might very probably and na-
turally be expected to occur in Ireland; supposing when
an Assistant Barrister, who took the more restricted and
limited view of the elective franchise, rejected
the claimant, en appeal was made to a Judge
who took the larger view of the franchise, and
the voter was by that Judge placed upon the register, the
same man the next year was liable to be compelled to prove
his right again before the Assistant Barrister who had
made it a point of duty to reject him. So it was with re-
spect to the second appeal of the Noble Lord. He ( Lord
Morpeth) would suppose, in that instance, that the Assist-
ant Barrister took the more liberal view of the right of
vote, he would admit the claimant ; an appeal was lodged
to the Judge of Assize, who took a different view of the
franchise, and who discarded the voter. Thus it would
happen every year. When the voter succeeded in being
placed on the register by the Assistant Barrister, he would
at every next Assize be liable to be thrust off by the going
Judge of Assize. The Noble Lord intimated in his ad-
dress to the House on Tuesday evening that he was willing
to lop off some of the topmast branches of that hydra-
headed schedule of his respecting the different notices
which the claimant to vote should give. Therefore he
(Lord Morpeth) supposed that they would not quarrel
with reference to that part of the subject. He
for his part was content with whatever reform was speci-
fied as necessary on the subject. He was glad to find that
the Noble Lord admitted the propriety of the objector to
a voter already on the register stating the nature and cha-
racter of the objection ; that seemed to him no more than
what was perfectly fair and reasonable, and he was glad
to understand that they would not have any question of dis-
pute on that subject. With respect to the Court of Ape
peal, he (Lord Morpeth) proposed to retain the same pro-
vision which had been introduced into the Bill brought into
the House by his Right Hon. Friend the Attorney-Ge-
neral for Ireland, in the Court of 'tile last Session, and
which was contemplated the system of English regiss
tration proposed b; the Noble Lord, the Secretary for the
Colonies. cie (Lord Morpeth) assented to the weight of
those arguments which were urged against the propriety
of making the Judges of the land constitute the new Court
of Appeal, as he thought that that would have a tendency,
and they had already seen that it had, to contaminate
their solemn functions with the imputation of a suspicion of
being influenced by party prejudice, It would be the obvi-
ous tendency of that measure to lower their most important
station in public estimation, and he (Lord Morpeth) pro-
posed in its stead to make the new Appeal Court consist
of three barristers of a certain standing, who would hold
their sittings in Dublin, and be appointed by the Speaker
of the House of Commons. Having thus mentioned the
new Court of Appeal, he was naturally brought, in the
order of the topics, to the question of the franchise:
Now the Noble Lord opposite, in his speech the other
night, seemed to intimate that he (Lord Morpetb) was
guilty, or that he should be guilty of mixing up the ques-
tion of the franchise with other parts of the registration
code; but so far from admitting that charge, he ( Lord
Morpeth) assured him that he always stated to the house.
that it was not only expedient at any time, or in any point
of view, but was absolutely essential before. they con-
stiteted a second provisional Court of Appeal, to put the
franchise upon a distinct and ascertained basis.—( Hear,
hear, from the Ministerial side of the House.) He (Lord
Morpeth) did not think that any Hen. Member who had
awthteonmdeadrketod thethe proceedings that
\\ hat, ptebraattihoaadinaltrietaisdyquteaskteionnp,
place
in Ireland,
itilhrevelelliar;ii:teca on u d doubt of the expediency of cor-
i ,gh:nind.gictobneibii,reiriningittetdheto
ask,su b j ewe tass.
stale Hear, the
thear.ing )5
in roesp,,,ct to the qualifications? With respect to the
first place ttie minds of the Judges were divided—the minds
abnaerrnii;tee barristers of
twerethe
peopled e do—f torn' Lleaving n the
e
judgment sett arid coming iota that House, they found
the opinions of the two greet political parties who con-
stituted
that }louse were equally divided ; and if the
izt:tioleny
paid attention to the speeches in both Houses ira
es of Pa I
meet, it would be found that the Duke of Richmond
wa-s
quotedthe
Nobleas anz
oarudthoopriptoysuitpe (Lordonthis g
), and that the
Marquis of Lansdowne was of a different opinion from that
of Lord Melbourne.—( Hear, hear.) Thus it was seen
that the Legislature, the Judges, and the bar, the framers
of the law, and its administrators, were equally divided, and
confused and perplexed its interpretation.—( Hear, hear.)
hear.)
) was a
No diversion
one
could
ou forld
doubtwhich
That might sffsrd a subtle and interesting diversion to the
expoundersthatthe cal result of but
it
the present state of the law,
r a tti f the law,
the people bled.—( Hear, hlar
whatever interpretation might be given to the solvent
tenant test, as it :night for brevity be called, equally in-
i
vUlYed thQ cunditA of testimony and of opinion—( Hoar,