The Sun.
London, England, 1841-08-28 00:00:00

LOND ON, SATURDAY, AUGUST 28, 18-11.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT:

Conference by, and at the expense of, their congregations,
praying for the repeal of the Corn-laws. On the motion
of the Hon. Member, the pQtition was read by the Clerk
at the table.
THE WORKING CLASSES.
Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD gave notice that
on bringing up the report of the Address to
her Majesty, he should move an additional paragraph
to the following effect :—" That we further res-
pectfully represent to your Majesty that, in our
opinion, the distress which your Majesty deplores is
mainly attributable to the circumstance of your whole
people not being fully and fitirly represented
in the House, and that we feel it will be our
duty to consider the means of sl extending and
regulating the suffrage, and adopting such improvements
in the system of voting, as shall confer on the working
classes that just right in the - representative body
which is necessary to secure a due consideration of their
interests, and which their present patient endurance of
suffering gives them the strongest title to cl Lim.
Captain BERKELEY gave notice that on September
the 21st, he should tnave " That the practice of sending her
Majesty's ships to foreign stations inefficiently manned,
and unprepared for every emergency, is detrime ital to the
interests of the navy and injurious to the chars ter and
honour of the British flag ;" and on September 28, he
should also move, that " it is the opinion of this House
that the officers, soldiers, marines, &c., employed at
the taking of St. Jean d'Acre are as entitled to pecu-
niary reward as those that had been engaged at the
bombardment of Algiers and Navarino."
Dr. BOWRING rose pursuant to notice, to move for
"A return of the amount of taxes levied on land in the
different states of Europe ; distinguishing the taxes raised
for the service of the state from those levied for local
purposes ; the return to show the amount in the monies and
measures of the different, States, and to be rendered into
British monies and mpaStires. Also Returns exhibiting
the proportion borne by' the land tax (as approxima-
tively as it can be estimated) to the value or rental of
land in the different countries of Europe."
Mr. DISRAELI intimated his intention of opposing
the motion.

HOUSE OF bRDS. Aug. 27.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY, in the absence of the Lord
Chancellor, took his seat on the Woolsack at Three
o'Clock.

Prayers having been read, several Peers took the
oaths and their seats. Among them we noticed the Earl of
Harewood, the Earl of Stamford and Warrington, the
Earl of Ilchester, the Marquis of Donegal, and the
Marquis of Downshire.

Their Lordships, at Four o'Clock, adjourned during
pleasure.

The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat upon the
Woolsack at Five o'Clock.

Viscount DUNCANNON laid upon the table, by
command of her Majesty, certain correspondence relating
to the Falkland Islands, which was ordered to be
printed ; and also certain correspondence relating to the
affairs of Canada.

He was glad to hear those cheers, for he had never been
cheered by the Hon. Gentlemen opposite but when he
had said something that was just and true. He would
repeat, that all that was necessary for the triumph
of the popular party was the extension of popular rights.
He was Chairman of three political unions, and he de-
clared most sincerely he believed he was then discharg-
ing his duty to his country ; and he would say of the
people of his part of the country, that he would do all
in his power to persuade them to agitation for the purpose
of getting an extension of the franchise, of obtaining the
Vote by Ballot, and of inducing her Majesty's Ministers
to review their conduct, and to render the Reform Bill
what it was intended it should be.—(Cheers.) It was
perfectly well known that a great and deeply lamented
statesman, the late Lord Durham, had said that a certain
individual, whose name he did not mention,
but who Was believed to have been one of
the Ministers who seceded, and was now a leading
Member on the Opposition benches, the Member for
Dorchester, was one of the principal opponents of its
being more largely extended. Then let them look at the
distress of the country; a distress, he solemnly believed,
greatly aggravated by the Currency Bill of 1819, which
was brought forward by the Right Hon. Baronet the
Member for Tamworth, and which he could not desig-
nate otherwise than as one of the most reckless, and at
the same time one of the most gross pieces of political
ignorance—(Hear, hear)—ever inflicted on the country.
The landed interest ought to pay a greater portion of. the
national debt than any other class of the com-
munity. That debt had not been incurred to
grant protection to the thews and sinews of the
labouring men ; still less jlid Peel's Bill give
them protection, and the Cord-laws had been inflicted
on the country as a matter of traffic between the
landed interest and the Government of the day, to save
the landed interest as much as possible from the effects
of Peel's Bill.—(Hear, hear.) He held in his hand a
pamphlet which had been written fourteen years ago by
the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Dorchester.
That pamphlet had been presented to him (Mr. W.) by-
the Right Honourable Gentleman himself, at Op,
time that he was carrying on a correspondence with

Dr. BOWRING then gave notice that he would bring that Right Honourable Zientleman relating to poll-
forward his motion on Monday next. tical matters as well as to the currency. i'ie had
THE NAVY PAY BILL. read that pamphlet again within the course of the last
On the Order of the Day being read for the second few days, and agreed cordially with every sentiment it con-
reading of this Bill, tained. He had seen no reason to change his opinions
Captain BERKELEY begged leave to call the atten- on the subject, and he considered that pamphlet contain-
tion of the Secretary of the Admiralty to the hardship ed more truth, more information, and was more generally
to which seamen in the Mediterranean were subjected, useful, than any book that had been published on the
in being obliged to receive the dollar for 4s. 4d. while subject. Why the Right Honourable Gentleman should
they were obliged to spend it at the rate of 4s. He have challenged his opinion he would not then stop to
hoped the Admiralty would redress the grievance. inquire. He verily believed that the greater part of the
Mr. PARKER was understood to say that the Admi- distress of the country was to be attributed to the
ralty would take the case into their consideration. Corn-laws. He had always been decidedly in favour of
The Bill was then read a second time, and was or- the immediate abolition of those laws, and as long as he
dered to be committed on Monday next. had a seat in that House he would demand a total and
THE _AIM 0 URN E D DEBATE. immediate abolition of the Corn- laws.—(Loud cheers.)
On the Order of the Day being read for resuming the But in public matters he would always be content to take
adjourned debate on the Address, a part when he could not get all, and not follow the example
Mr. R. M. MILNES rose and said, that he believed the of some Hon. Gentlemen who refused roast beef because
prolongation of that debate could not be satisfactory, they could not get bread and cheese as well. He, however,
either to the House or the country. It could not be considered that a duty of Bs. was far too much,
satisfactory to Hon. Gentlemen opposite themselves to and more than the working class could afford.—(Hear.)
make statements, which, because they were not an- And now, with respect to the Corn-law. He solemnly
swered,coulci not be supposed to be irrefragable.—(Hear.) believed that the great proportion of tho distress exist-
He thought they brought forward this measure at a bad ing in this country was attributable to that law.—
time. They wished to give a false colour to the debate. (Hear, hear.) He believed that the want of employ-
Gentlemen opposite would wish the question to be con- went for operatives, of • a re turn for capital,
sidered as one of principle on their side, and as one of and of commercial enterprise by the distress of the Bank
party on his.—(Hear, hear, from the Ministerial side of of England, all the evils of the currency and the innu-
the House.) He would say this question was considered merable bankruptcies, which had gone on increasing
not a question of principle. Gentlemen knew this from year to year, and now increase more ra-
question was not, abstractedly considered, the qries- pidly than ever, were attributable to that cause.
tion of the Corn-laws. The men, as well as the measures, Since the year 1837 there had been one continued course
were the subject of decision, and could not be separated. of bankruptcy throughout the country, and it was en-
Persons and party were involved in the question, and tirely owing to the Corn-laws. The Bank of England
the Hon. i%lover of the Address put the question in a had not sufficient capital to send abroad gold to buy
form which he knew they could not grapple with.— corn. That Bank was, in fact, a joint-stock bank,
(Ministerial cheers.) Yes, the question was put forward and it ought to be called by that name. He had reason
in a manner with which they could not grapple—(Cheers to believe that twice since 1837 the, Bank had been on
from the same quarter)—because they knew it could only the point of suspending its payments, and it
be grappled with by men who occupied a legitimate and was difficult to say what might yet occur. He
distinct position in the country.—(Laughter.) They hoped they would have fine weather for the harvest,
knew that the principal accusation against the Govern- and that the crops would be abundant. But if it should
ment was that they brought forward those mea- be otherwise—if it should happen that they had to send
sures impertinently and injudiciously, as they must out gold to buy 3,000,000 of foreign corn in the present
be aware that a satisfactory decision could not distressed state of the commercial and manufactur-
be come to on the subject ; and when they ing interests—he believed the consequences would be
heard the Chancellor of the Exchequer stating that that the Bank must suspend its payments ; and he
the question, regarded as one of revenue, shrunk must add, that he was by no means sure that a suspen-
into nothing before the moral and political ques- sion of payments by the Bank of Englaitd would not be
tions involved, they heard it admitted as strongly as for the good of the country. There was one other
they could, that it was nominally a financial question, but point which he wished to mention. He wished to de-
that in reality it concealed otherand higher considerations. Clare himself, in the language of the Hon. Member for
He was unwilling to prolong a debate which ought for Stockport, an out-and.out free-trader. His own inte-
all practical and reasonable purposes to be shortened as rests were vested chiefly in the land ; but the consti-
much as possible—which should be left to the leaders of tuency which he represented were too liberal and too
the two great parties in this country.—(Hear, hear.) well-informed to suppose that they sent him there to
The country had seen by the history of the present Go- secure his own interest, and to neglect theirs.—(Cries
vernment, that a Government resting upon every-day of " Hear," and laughter from the Opposition benches.)
popularity could not win the affections of the people. He would conclude by stating that he would give, with
Such a Government was obliged by its very existence to the greatest satisfaction, his support to the Address. lie
affect a confidence which it did not possess, and to make would add, that if any Hon. Members in that House,
promises which it could neveerform. The Honourable or parties without the House, would join him in an Ad-
-1415A *-X7,--e- ether night that dress to the Crown, he would endeavour to frame such
it was an =WA weie...e4,4_pin,the part of the Go- an Address, and put his name to it, and it would be to
vernment, that they hae!oixfpWstted a desire to pass the effect that her Majesty should refuse to sanction
measures which they had not the power of carrying. any new Ministry whatever until she could guarantee to
He (Mr. Milnes) thought that in politics, as in daily the country that they would explicitly state the means
life, it was the business of reasonable men to desire by which they would do better than their predecessors.
only that which was attainable ; and this appeared —(Cheers and laughter, from the Opposition benches.)
to him to be one distinction between the Government Mr. HINDLEY had listened with attention to
which was about to be formed and the present the speech of the Noble Lord, the Member for
one, that the former would try to effect only Liverpool, and he (Mr. Hindley) was certain that the
that which it believed to be practically attainable. The late elections had not been decisive of this country being
appeal which he made to the country was of two kinds ; in favour of monopoly. Sure he was that the consti-
it was an appeal as to measures, and an appeal tuency of Liverpool would never have sent the Noble
as to men. The country had decided as Lord to that House to advocate the doctrine of monopoly.
to the value of measures and the choice of men. A Go- He had lately had an opportunity of witnessing the
vernment, situated like her Majesty's Government, great distress which prevailed, and which he could
should feel every form of office a burden upon their not help attributing the greater part to the operation of
backs. Because they were not in the position the Corn-laws. Hon. Gentlemen opposite attributed it
in which the Government of a free country ought to the over-production. What ! Was he to be told that
to be, they should rejoice in the hope of being liberated there were too many hats, too many coats, and too
from office. He wished, for the sake of the historical many of the other comforts of life ? He had received a
reputation of this country, that her Majesty's Govern- letter from an intelligent and industrious weaver, who
ment had retired earlier from office ; that they had not said that, through the operation of the Corn-laws, he
waited for a process of legal rejection. He believed had been in such poverty that for eleven years he had
that they would then have come to the discussion not been able to buy a new coat.—(Hear.) He (Mr.
of the proposed measures in a more friendly spirit than Hindley) showed that letter to another operative, asking
they had done. The few words which he had uttered if it could be true. The man, who was also a weaver,
would, he trusted, recal to Hon. Gentlemen the real gist said that he had not been able to enjoy such a luxury
of the question before the House, and show them the for fifteen years.—(Hear, hear.) Was it right to say
real question before them was upon whom devolved the the operatives of this country should be left with their
responsibility of governing the country.—(Hear, hear.) stomachs half filled and their backs half clothed. As
Mr. RENNIE had not intended to have offered any long as he had the honour of a seat in that House he
observations for the consideration of the House, had it would never hesitate to stand up for justice to the op-
not been for the great change that had taken place pressed operatives. ,He felt that on the present occasion
in the manner of treating the present debate I,y it would not be right for him to enter into any argument
Hon. Member., opposite. The Hon. Member for on the Corn-laws. He should have been better satisfied
the West Riding of Yorkshire brought forward with the amendment of the Hon. Member for Yorkshire,
his Amendment. He told the House that the real ques- if he saw in it a pledge that the question of the
tion was one of confidence or no confidence, but al- Corn-laws should be fully and properly discussed.—
though every Speaker up to the middle of last night (Hear, hear.) Did the Hon. Member for Yorkshire
concurred in those sentiments, he had heard great draw up that amendment ? Certainly not. It was done
change in the sentiments of those whO had by that master-hand who knew so well how to draw up
since addressed the House. This to him was a matter a document for the consideration of the House. The
of surprise, considering that the resolution taken by the amendment pledged the House to. nothing. Did the
mover of the amendment to the Address had not been Hon. Members opposite mean that the House should
taken at the spur of the moment, but had been the re- have an opportunity of discussing this question, or did
stilt of a meeting that had taken place at the house of they mean to shirk it ? He thought before they
the Right Hon. Baronet opposite. The Hon. Member entered on the question of the Poor-laws, which would
who had just sat down had explained the real secret expire shortly, they ought to have a proper understand-
why Hon. Members on that side of the House had not ing with reference to the question of food. He would
spoken ; he had stated that they could not grapple not enter upon the question of the trade at the present
with the statements of the Hon. Member for Manchester. moment. Principles were 'involved in that on which a
He wished to say one wort on the subject of the Corn- Ministry ought not to rest, but at the present moment
lea s, which had not as yet been alluded to. He Loped the question of free trade was used only as crutches on
there were some Honourable Members connected which a falling Ministry sought .to cling. As to the amend-
with the agricultural districts present—(Hear, hear) ment, all he had to say was, that they had never heard of a
—because he 'was anxious to call the attention vote of want of confidence till the Government had stated
to the important modes in which agricultural operations that they meant to deal with the question of the Corn laws
were carried on in the southern counties of Scotland, when he saw the declaration of the Noble Ijuke in
in Roxburghshire and the three Lothians. It appeared another place, that if any Administration which assumed
to him that the landowners had not brought to their aid the reins of power would attempt to tamper with the
the iinprovem Nits which machinery had rendered available Corn-laws, they would be at once turned out of office by
as the manufacturers had done. By that means all the the landed gentry of the country. These men had as-
manufacturers had been enabled to carry on a competi- sumed a monopoly of power, and now sought to maintain
tion with the manufacturers of the Continent, and if a a monopoly of food. If the working classes did not get
similar practice had prevailed ameng the agriculturists, justice from that House, he would be ready, although
they would have had less objection to the ports beingthrown extremely unwilling, to agitate the public mind to join
open to the importation of foreign corn. The improved the great masses of his fellow-countrymen in demanding
rents which were obtained in Scotland and the an extension of the suffrage.—(Cheers.)
north of England, were a proof that it was Mr. WIGNEY said the whole questions before the
to enlightened agricultural improvements they owed House were those which appeared so prominently in the
their superiority over the English farmers.—(Hear.) Speech so graciously sent down from the Throne ; and
The country now found itself in a position of very he thought it did not become the honour and dignity
great difficulty. Neither side had yet denied the great of the House merely to say that they would come
distress that existed among the millions of manufacturers to a vote of want of confidence in Ministers,
of this country. They had called those millions before they would direct their attentions to the many
into existence and those millions must be fed, propositions in the Speech.—(Hear.) He thought the
He never yet heard of any wish on the part great questions referred to in the speech required mature
of those who represented the manufacturers that that consideration, and however he might approve of those
interest should be propped up at the expense of the landed sentiments, he was not prepared at once to come to
interest. All they asked was equal justice—that they a decision upon them. In his opinion proper time should
might be allowed to exchnge their commodities for the com- be given to discuss these measures, and unless they
modifies of other countries; and he thought that thelanded were so discussed the time of the House might have
proprietors, if they understood their true interest, would, been much more usefully occupied than it had been by
before this question was pushed too far, concede what that debate ? The question was, how soon the Right
was now so reasonably demanded of there.—(Hear.) hlon.Gentlemen opposite would sit on his (Mr.Wigney's)
He would only repeat, in conclusion, that tl e time was side of the House. There was no disguising. that ques -
come when something should be done to satisfy the minds tion, and much as he might wish to avoid it, it was in-
of the people of this country. evitable ; and therefore the sooner it came to a close the
Mr. WALLACE rose and said thathe thought it was the better for the House and the country. He thought when
duty of the House to discuss, at the earliest opportunity, that change took place, much as Gentlemen opposite had
the great questions referred to in the Speech from the opposed many good measures, they would find they
Throne. He knew that Hon. Gentlemen opposite must adopt similar ones, and if they did so he would
claimed to themselves the right to represent the feelings Live them his support.—(Hear.)
of the people of England ; but for his part he Mr. HAWES rose, and said that he could not concur
felt persuaded that no claim could be more in the sentiments which had just been expressed by the
unfounded. lie believed in despite of the late elections Hon. Member for Brighton.—(Hear, hear.) He had not
that the people throughout the country were thoroughly expected to hear any Hon. Member on that (the Minis-
reformed, and he was sure that if attention had been terial) side of the House affirm that it was not the duty
paid to what had fallen from his Hon. Friend the Member of that House to discuss the great questions refereed to
for Rochdale (Mr.;S. Crawford), namely, the improvement in the Speech from the Throne. If he wished to justify
and the perfection of the Reform Bill, the phalanx a discussion, he had only to point to the amendment
opposite could not count the numbers which they now moved by the Hon. Member for Yorkshire, which vir-
arranged in hostility to the Government. If her Majes- tually promised that the House would take into its con-
ty's Government had carried out the principles which they sideration the question of the Corn-laws. For his part,
had promulgated in bringing forward the Reform Bill, he was at a loss to imagine what was the strange consti-
no such maiority would be seated opposite that day. tuency which the Hon. Member for Brighton _repro
Above all, if the Ballot had been passed, the dominion sented, when he stated his conviction of the impropriety
of Conservatism would have been at an end.—(Hear, of the House deciding upon the great. questions which
hear.) They had only to observe how unpalateable the then agitated the country.—(Hear, hear.) If the sub-
mention of such subjects had ever been to the party op- 1 ject under consideration were merely which of two par-
posite.--(lronical cheers from the Opposition benches.) ties should rule the country, both being disposed to take