The Sun.
London, England, 1847-06-04 00:00:00

fter confinement, the scheme proposed originally by the
Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir G. Grey), was essentially
ditf-rent from that now proposed to be adopted. It
would have been better if the Right lion. Gentleman
had produced some other document than this letter of
the 20th of January. Mr. Clay produced an instance of
a man who asserted that he would not be redeemed from
his career of vice if he were sent back to his old as-
sociates, and that he conceived to be a strong proof
in support of the view which he was now advocating.
Lord Denman and other high judicial authorities who
were supposed to be competent to judge on this ques-
tion, were opposed to the principle of this measure.
The Committee of the House of Lords had not yet, he
could understand, concluded their labours, hut he
thought sufficient information had been already ob-
tained to enable the House to judge of this question.
He did not deny that evils existed under the system of
transportation, but he denied that it was shown that
these evils were inseparable from the system, or
that under a better administration it might be made
useful to the community and beneficial to the convict
himself. Sir James Mackintosh was in favour of this
system. But it might be said that he did not possess
sufficient acquaintance with the subject to constitute
him a sufficient judge; but Sir James Franklin, whose
competency to judge oa this question, could not be
denied, had expressed himself favourable to the prin•
ciples of transportation, though he did not bind himself
to any specific plan ; and in one of his dispatches
he stated that ha considered transportation essen-
tial to the welfare of society. The Reverend
..ilr. Fry had put forward a similar opinion.
As regarded the inferior appointments of the colony, a
great mischief had been committed by under-paying those
who held them. He complained, too, that there had been
a discrimination of the differing circumstances of diffe-
rent colonies. But the circumstances of the penal
colonies must be taken to explain the origin of those
complaints, which bad arisen concerning the governor
of the colony. It ought to be remembered that it was
determined all at once to discontinue banishment to New
South Wales, and the whole tide was necessarily poured
in upon Van Diemen's Land. And, again, the system
thereof had not been administered in accordance
with the spirit. Why, it was found out that
the officers, to save themselves more trouble, for the night
used to lock up the prisoners from six o'clock in the
evening till eight o'clock next morning. This was
against their instructions. How then could they expect
the system so worked to work well ? That item being
remedied, he thought they must further ensure an effi-
cient service of the inferior officer by better payment.
From long consideration and experience, he had come to
the result, that such a system of penal settlement in
the colonies might be established with the advantage
which was contemplated in the first establishment of
these settlements. He concurred that Lord Grey had
acted blameably in abandoning the settlement in
South Australia. He acted on a sudden ; on a
sudden he recalled the Governor and ordered the settle-
ment to be abandoned. He was to blame also for stating
that transportation would in no future time be resumed.
That was a question which he ought to have lett open,
stating no more than that an intermission of a period of
years would occur. The Legislature of Van Diemen's
Land had exacted a pledge that transportation would
not be again resumed, and they had bound the home
Government by conditions. That was not the relative
position which the colonies and the mother country
ought to occupy. The colony of New South Wales was
established especially for a penal settlement—(Hear,
hear)—and he thought, so long as proper care was taken
that a sufficient admixture should be gained of the popu-
lation, it ought to have been continued as such. On
those two points, Lord Grey was to blame, and he (Lord
Mahon) felt strongly that the change was improper, and
he must protest against it.
Sir WILLIAM MOLESWORTH could not agree to
the conclusions which the Noble Lord had come to.
This question had two aspects. One was, whether the
system of transportation was necessary or desirable ;
and if not, what would they substitute in its place ?
They had to consider if the present system should be con-
tinued; and if they decided in the negative, what they
would offer in its stead. In answer to the Noble
Lord he was prepared to prove that in every form trans-
portation was a bad system of punishment, and that no
alteration of it—no improvement that could be made,
would render the system effective. In doing so, he
would have somewhat to trespass on their time, but he
claimed their indulgence in doing so. On a former oc-
casion, some few years ago, he was a chairman of a
Committee which investigated this subject, composed
of several of the leading Members of the House ; and
the report of that Committee, unanimously agreed to,
recommended the abolition of the assignment system.
The investigations they made into the whole question,
led the Committee to the determination they had come
to regarding the assignment of convicts. (The Hon.
Baronet here read an extract from the report in
question, setting forth the grounds on which the Com-
mittee had come to their decision. Such were the views
which had been taken by the Transportation Committee,
which the Noble Lord ( Mahon) would fain revive.
Last year Mr. Gladstone, the Colonial Secretary, took
occasion to ask the opinion of the Governor of the colony
of New South Wales whether they were desirous to
have a renewal of transportation. The matter wag re-
ferred to the Legislative Council for their consideration,
and he referred the Noble Lord, and those who thought
with him, to the report which the Select Committee, to
which the matter was entrusted, made on the question.
That report was, that on no grounds could they give their
assent to a renewal of transportation. They declared
that no conceivable modification of the system ought to be
again introduced into New South Wales. (The Hon.
Baronet read an extract from the report, to the effect
stated, setting forth, in detail, the reasons the Commit-
tee
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gretted that the Noble Lord did not go one ste .fr-
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ther than he had done, and had shown in. a
statement to the House the evils of the system. The
Noble Lord, however, had taken steps in the right
direction, but unfortunately Lord Stanley succeeded to
office, who completely undid the good already
effected. Lord Stanley greatly increased the number
of depots for transportation. Now the probation
system was intended to improve the drove and
chain gangs. Now, he desired the attention of
the House to this part of his statement, as he
intended to prove the utter failure of all attempts to
improve the system. The probation system was this—
in the first instance, the convict was transported to Nor-
folk Island, and after a year's good conduct, he was en-
titled to be sent to a private person and receive pay-
ment for his labour. For the second year's good
conduct, he was entitled to a ticket of leave.
How did the system work? that it should do so well,
two things were requisite proper inspection, and power
to enforce obedience. Lord Stanley frequently com-
plained of the utter want of information which existed
upon the subject, and, after three years, he declared that
it was impossible to obtain any that was satisfactory.
This was rather an evident proof that the in-
spection was by no means efficient, otherwise the
desired information could easily have been obtained.
When Mr. Gladstone succeeded to office he desired
information from the governor of Van Diemen's
Land, and in accordance with that wish several
reports were submitted to the Government, all of which
plainly proved the position which lie (Sir William
Ntolesworth) endeavoured to demonstrate.—(Hear.)
He would not trouble the House with any further au-
thorities on this part of tin, subject. He predicted the
failure of the system at the time it was brought forward,
but his warning was disregarded, and the consequences
had been most distressing. With regard to Norfolk
Island, the systems of punishment pursued there were of
three descriptions, namely, cruel, indulgent, and relaxed.
Only the two latter, however, had been attended with
any success, and, of late, he understood the Governor of
New South Wales had been instructed to adopt a system
of extreme indulgence. From the best. evidences he
could collect, it was clear that the extreme indulgent
system was the best ; it produced better order amongst
the convicts, made them more moral and rational in
their conduct, and induced them to feel more deeply the
degrading nature of their situations.—(Hear, hear.)
The extreme indulgent system had been successfully
tested under Captain Maconochie, who reported that the
punishment of transportation, where that system was
adopted, always produced the best results upon the
moral character of the convict, while where
the cruel system was resorted to, the convict
became hardened and brutal, instead of awakened
to a sense of his degradation. Major Child gave similar
testimony ; and in his reports upon the operation of the
different systems under his supervision, he related a
number of anecdotes, strongly contrasting the beneficial
effects resulting from the extreme indulgent
system with the cruelties and atrocities which
were always attendent upon the cruel system.
At the expiration of those two years the governor of
Van Diemen's Land thought proper to inquire into the
condition of the convict population, but no information
had been given to him during that period with reference
to the working of the measure ; and it was not until at
the end of that period Lord Stanley awoke as from a
trance and wondered how his new system worked. He
charged him, therefore, with neglect, with the conse-
quences of that neglect, with the hideous, horrible, and
disgusting state of things which now existed, be-
cause he had not appointed proper officers to su-
perintend the convicts, and require them to make
regular reports to him. He would refer to the
opinion of Mr. Baron Alderson given in the
appendix to the report of the Criminal Law Commis-
sioners. That opinion was deserving of the most serious
attention of the House. (The Hon. Member then pro-
ceeded to read various extracts from the evidence of his
Lordship, in which he attributed the failure of the
system of transportation to the want of proper discipline
prior to the convicts being sent out of the country.) He
thought that the only proper and efficient mode of
checking crime was by granting a general and
wide-spread system of efficient education for the
youth of the lower orders of the people, and separating
them from their parents. But the question before the
House was, which was the best substitute for the present
mode of punishment. He thought the solitary system
was the best that had been devised for a threefold ob-
ject—that of preventing crime, preventing the demorali-
zation of the persons by associations with others of a
worse character, and it also tended to improve
the moral condition of the prisoner, by
affording ample
time for reflection and improvement. • I unishment could
not be looked at in a pecuniary point of view,
because a good system of punishment, even though it
might require a larger outlay than a bad system, still