The Sun.
London, England, 1847-06-12 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF LORDS, June 11.
The'r Lordships met at Five o'clock.
Messengers from the Commons broucht up several
Bills, which were ordered to lie am the table.
LUNATIC ASYLUMS (IRELAND) BILL.
On tip. motion of Lord CAMPBELL, this Bill was
read a third time and passed.
HEALTH OF TOWNS BILL.

The Marquis of NORMANBY presented petitions
from Birmingham in favour of the Health of Towns
Bill; also from Warwick, Canterbury, Coventry, and
other places, to the same effect.
PORTUGAL.

Lord STANLEY wished to know if the Noble Mar-
quis the President of the Council had issued any in-
structions with respect to the prisoners of war that
might be taken by our naval forces off Portugal; and if
so, if he had any objection to lay them before their
Lordships.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that he had not
received the papers, and therefore he could not give an
explicit answer to the inquiry; but he might observe
that the surrender of the prisoners had been made with-
out any conditions, and that they were not subject to
any peculiar restrictions.
Lord BROUGHAM then gave notice that he should
bring the subject of the armed interference with the in-
ternal affitirs of Portugal before the House on Tuesday
next, and he trusted therefore that any Information
which the Government might possess would be laid
before the House.
Lord STANLEY said that, under the circumstances,
and in consideration of the intimation of his Noble and
Learned Friend near him, he begged to give notice
that, on Tuesday next, he should move that their Lot d-
ship should take into consideration the present state of
the affairs of Portugal, with a view to obtain further
information than any which they at present possessed.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that all
he had to state was that he really possessed
no further information than that which he bad already
given.
Lord BROUGHAM begged to explain, that as his
Noble Friend had given notice of a motion, he would
withdraw his own inquiry.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH thought that good
reasons ought to be shown why this interference had
taken place, fur the decrees of the Queen had been issued
on the 7th of October, and this interference had only
taken place within the week.

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE—That might be at-
;ended to at a future time.
SPANISH BONDS.

Lord BROUGHAM begged to present a petition
from the Society of the Spanish Bondholders, praying
the interference of the Government in their behalf,

and that the authorities in Spain might be induced to
pay the arrears of their debts. In making this motion
he could not but observe that it was E qually drtes;able
and eishonouiable for men to repudiate their debts, as had
been done with so much shamelessness by othErcountries.
The petition stated that the Spaniards had the meals of
paying, for their revenue bad greatly increased since
the debt was contracted. The petitioners prayed that
their Lordships would take their case into their most
serious conshferation.

GREAT SOUTHERN AND WESTERN
itAIL WAY.
Earl FITZWILLIAM was desirous of calling the
attention of their Lordships to the report which had
been laid upon the table of the House of Commons re-
lating to the great Southern and Western Railway of
Ireland. The report, which had been prepared by Mr.
Walker, recommended the encouragement of these un-
dertakingsas one of the best mans for getting rid of some
of the prevailing evils of Ireland. Hitherto thelabourers of
Ireland had been unaccustomtd to receive money wages,
but the introduction of these works Lao the sister king-
dom had produced a great change in that respect, and
he thought Government could not do better than give
their assistance to similar undertakings. He begged to
move that the paper be laid upon the table of the House.

Motion agreed to.
NATIONAL EDUCATION SCHOOLMASTERS
IN HOLY ORDERS.

The Bisi,op of EXETER rose for the purpose
of bringing forward the motion of which he had given
notice, a few days since, Thatit is the opinion of this
House that persons in holy orders not exercising eccle-
siastical functions, ought not, as such, to be ineligible to
the office of schoolmasters in schools receiving the aid of
Parliamentary grants. In bringing forward that motion
he felt deeply impressed with the necessity of her
Majesty's Government adopting that resolution. It was
highly necessary, tor the benefit of the rising generation,
that the principle of his motion should be carried out.
Many of those whose interests he was advocating were
persons of the greatest intelliger.ce, and though not men
of the wkrld, they had their hearts free from those in-
fluences which could disable them from discharging the
duties of teachers, and were peculiarly well qualified to
impart instruction. He said that the Noble Marquis, on
the 25th August last, when the Minutes of Council were
drawn up, had made no conditions which excladed
clergyme❑ from the situation of schoolmasters. The
inquiry was as it affected the clergy. What was the fit-
ness or the unfitness of nem:oils to teach? It appeared
by the resolui'ons, that the parochial clergy were to
assist in the examinations, end if that were so, it follow d
as a natural consequence that there must be a course of
instruction in which he could concur, for if it were not,
how could they take part in the examination ? Then
there was ance her question raised by these resllutions,
and that was as to how far the doctrines thought in the
school were in accordance with those of the Church of

England, and in conformity with the principles-or the
authorised ver,ion of the Bible. The Right Rev. Prelate
then read a series of extracts from toe resolutions, in
order to show the restrictions which are imposed upon
the clergy of the Church of England. He could not un -
derstand why a clergyman could be eligible to the office of
inspector, and yet be deprived of performing the functions
of a schoolmaster. It was an anomaly he could not account
for, and he hoped the Noble Marquis would explain
clearly and distinctly why so singular a distinction was
made. If a clergyman were incompetent to fulfil the
duties of one situation, surely he was capable of perform-
ing the functions of the other, and he must confess to
their Lordships, that he was quite at a loss to conceive
upon what grounds this resolution of the Council was to

be justified. The motives which governed the Wes-
leyan body in their recent negotiations were evidently
that they wished the Government to support them, and
that the same as-istance should be refused to all
other sects, except those who might happen to agree in
the same religions opinions as themselves. That body
had most strenuously opposed the appointment of or-
dained persons to the situation of schoolmasters.
And the Government had, in his opinion, most
improperly given way to these objections. There
was one point to which ho wished to call the
attention of their Lordships in the correspondence that

passed between the Comniittee of the Wesleyan body
and the Lord President of the Committee of Privy Coun-
cil, and that was with respect to the liturgy and cate-
chism of the Church of England. The Noble Marquis
had consented, in reply to the application of the Wesleyan
body, to permit the catechism and liturgy to be dis-
pensed with in their schools, and thereby encouraged the
Wesleyana in their resistance to the oziginal minutes and
regulations on education. He denounced this conduct
of toe Noble Marquis as most unjust, and a breach of
faith with the Established Church. But this was not
only done now for the first time, but the act itself was in
direct violation of the trust deed under which the Coun-
cil of Education was established. The schools carried
on with the funds raised by the minute of Council were
conducted up. n the principles of the Established Church,
and yet their Lordships bad an tifstance of her Majesty's
Government committing themselves to a course of pro-
ceeding that was in direct violation of those principles.
The schools established by the We•sleyans were formerly
only two per cent. of the whole number in existence.
and it was too bad that a body who had only availed

themselves of the minutes of the Council to so-small an
extent should be suffered to extort such terms as those

of which he complained.—(Hear, hear.) What had the
Wesleyans done to entitle them to this concession, if
concession it were to be called? Why, on all occasions
they resisted the progress of education when based upon
Church principles. They resisted the educational
clauses of the Factories Bill in 1839, and on every oc-
casion they had shown themselves antagonistic to all
advancement or improvement iu the Church of England.
lie would not detain their Lordships further, but simply
move the resolution of which he had given notice—
namely, " That it is the opinion of this House that per-
sons in holy orders not exercising ecclesiastical func-
tions ought not, as such, to be ineligible to the office of
schoolmaster in schools receiving aid from the Parlia-
mentary grants."
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE (who was, as usual,
inaudible in the gallery) was understood to say that the
motion of the Right Rev. Prelate expressed nothing, and
when carried it could be. productive of no good. It was
proposed by this motion covertly, if not directly, to
establish the rule; that tecedtication to be afforded by
the public money voted by the state to the council of
education should be conducted and administered only by
clergymen of the Church of England. Now, such a re-
solution would be in direct violation of the opinions of
Parliament, already expressed upon this subject. The
Honse of Commons voted the money for the purpose of
education, and to no other purpose could it be applied;
and yet, in the face of all this, here was
the Right Reverend Prelates asking their Lord-
ships to pass a resolution to sanction the
diversion of these educational grants to the promotion
of the Church. He could not consent to such a pro-
ceeding, but if the Church really required the aid of ad-
ditional funds to secure the services of a new class of
clergyanen, let the Church come forward and tell the
Parliament and the country so, and not seek to attain the
object by indirect means. Let them understand what
they were about, and if they were to vote money for
educational purposes let the funds be applied to those
purposes, anti to none other. The Right Rev. Prelate
had accused him of a breach of faith in treating with the
Wesleyans upon this subjtct. For the life of him he
could not see how he had laid himself open to
such a charge. Parliament voted the additional
funds for the purposes of education, in
order that these education grants might be
rendered available to the Wesleyan body, who formed a
large proportion of the population of this country. How
could be blamed then, or how could he have laid himself
open to the charge of a breach of faith by consenting to
an arrangement proposed by the Wesleyans, which was
strictly in accordance with the spirit and principle of the
grant, and would do away with the objections they must
otherwise entertain, to participating in funds voted by
the state. The Wesleyans were a most numerous and
powerful body, and he considered that it was his duty
to hear their opinions on the subject. And it was be
cause he thus acted that he had fallen under the censure
of the Right Rev. Prelate, and he was not ashamed of
the course of conduct which be had pursued. The ro-
iliest of the Wesleyan body wee the most rational one
that could possibly be made to the Government. The
414°46141irti. of to w4ole body were sbuut to meet.

, together in a few days, and the deputation desired
1 to have some official information on the subject to
I communicate to them. Nothing could be more reasonable.
I lie did not wish to charge upon the I'Veslepais the gift
of prophecy, but they did most certainly state that a
short time only would elapse before the Bishop ofExe-
,
ter would endeavour to introduce some measure similar
to that which he now proposed. It was not till within
this very late period that -the Right Rev. Prelate had
discovered the necessity of adding the stipends of the
schoolmasters to that of deacons. He believed that if
the motion were agreed to, the result would be that the
whole of the funds voted for the purposes of education
and founding schools would be expended in training
deacons for holy orders.—(trear, hear.) The effect of
this experditure would be that each of these persons
would receive from the funds of the Committee,
For upprentic,ship for five years X 95
Expenses at normal school .......... 7O
Services as schoolmaster 125

Making a total or. ................. £290
to be expended in the formation of deacons fur the Esta-
blished Church. lie need hardly say such was not the pur-
poseof the Government in bringing forward their measure
and he hoped that their Lordships a ould not sanction
any departure from their intentions as embodied in the
minutes of Council on education, which had received
the cordial assent of the Legi•lature. With respect to
the motion itself, he would beg to say that persons in
holy orders wete not now ineligible to the office of
schoolmaster, but there was no d,ubt that it was inex-
pedient under cover of such a measure to augment to so
large an extent as was, to all appearance, the desire of
the Right hey. Prelate to do, the number of persons in
connexion with the Established Church receiving funds
appropriated by Parliament for a totally distinct and
different purpose. He should, therefore, feel it his duty
to move the previous question on the motion of the Right
Rev. Prelate.

_ _
Lard STANLEY thought it unfair on the part of the
Government to lay down a rule at the request of the
Dissenters. debarr.ng the clergy of the Established Church
from a pi rtici pation in the benefi ts of the Government grant
as schoolmasters in connexion with the national schools.
He was not a bigot in education, and had no wish to
prevent the disse-iting boo ies from participating in the
giant fin education, and if they were to urge that the
master proposed to be appointed to one of their schools,
belonged to the Churc of England, they wou:d be per-
fectly justified in doing so. He wished, however, to
speak of the Dissenters with the greatest respect, because
a more disinterested and rest)• ctablo- body, and one more
desirous to promote the purposes of education did not
exist; but he did not consider that they had any right
to demand that a cleriryman of the Church of England
should not have aid from the State for educational pur-
poses when he sought it.—(Hear, hear.) The
Noble Marquis said, that it was not their in-
ten'ion to train up schoolmasters who might at a future
time enter into other pursuits, but he (Lord Stanley)
thought that if they were to enter into holy orders that
their services for the purpose of education would be far
better secured than they would it the present state of
things continued.—(Hear.) For instance, employment
as clerks on the railways, and in other occupations, which
are better paid than the office of schoolmaster, would be
sought after ; but if he were called upon to enter into
holy orders, such a state of thir,gs would not occur, and
his whole attention would be secured for the purpose of
education. He did not think that the Noble
Marquis Lad met the case put forward, and thinking that
this was an unjust exclusion, he should support the
motion. He thought, however, that the object of the
Right Rev. Prelate would be answered by the discussion
which had taken place ; and, therefore, he advised him
not to divide upon the motion.
The Bishop of NORWICH considered that if the
motion were carried by their Lordships, that it would
not be carried in the other House, because it would ex-
asperate the Dissenters, and these, as the Noble Lord had
said, were not times to turn from the work of conciliation.
Even if it were adopted, he did not think the thinking
portion of the Church would be satisfied with it, because it
would partake of an exclusive character, and would not
be tolerated. Still he thought that a schoolmaster
should be elevated to a higher office. He was most
strongly opposed to the funds of the country being ap-
propriated to those who at a future period were to be
paid by the Church. It was their duty, he thought, to
lessen the gap which existed between the Church and
the Dissenters.

The Earl of CHICHESTER saw no reason why
schoolmasters should not enter into holy orders, as he
believed that the prospect of their elevation would
induce them to discharge their duties with greater effect
than if they were simply to remain teachers. He was
opposed to this motion, because he thought that it would
not be fit the benefit ,either of the schools or of the
Church itself. The Right Rev. Prelate had read several
extracts, which showed the anxious care which had been
devoted to the system of instruction in schools, but be
hoped that that instruction would not suffer by the
absence of the honour which thr Right Rev. Prelate had
it in view to confer upi;ti the ,choolwasters. In opposing
this natitii4i, he did not wish to separate the office of
schoulm.st r and religious teacher, but he thi:iuOit that
;hey would tie much betti r lett upon their present
basis, and therefore he could not give his assent to the
motion.

The Bishop of SNLISBURY said that he did not
intend to diter upon the gt-neral subject which had been
raised in the couNo o' tins debate. He entirely con-
curred in what the Noble Marquis had stated with re-
spect to the arduous :ld difficult functions of the Com-
mittee of Council upon this subject, and he thought that
had such a proceeding- as the one recommended in the
'notion of his Right lion. Frh-nd been advisable it would
have been adopted. Ile thought that in order to allay
the unfi:nd,d jealousy which was entertained by cer-
tain purp.ons in re,pect of the application of these funds,
the Goternment had laid down ruh-s which might have
somewhat injured the Church or England schools, but be
was extremely glad to hear that such was nut the case.
After a few words in explauutiun from the Bishop of
EXETER,
The motion was withdrawn.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF CUTIIMONS. June 11.
The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly before Four
o'clock.

REPORTS.

The following reports were brought up, and ordered to
lie on the tabl,:—Lincoln's Inn Rating; Oldham Alliance
Railway; Rathmines Improvement; Caledonian Railway
(Purchase or Lease of IVishaw and Coldness Railway);
Inverness Municipal and Police, &c.; Inverness Har-
bour and Navigation Tyne Docks ; L9eds, Dewsbury,
and Manchester Railway (Ossett Branch. and Dewsbury
and Morley Stations); Manchester, Sheffield, and Lin-
colnshire Railway (Ashton Canal Purchase) ; York and
Newcastle, Newcastle and Berwick, and North British
Railways Amalgamation ;- Liverpool, Manchester, and
Newcastle-upon-Tyne Junction Railway (Alteration of
Main Line and Hawes Branch) ; Northern Counties
Union Railway Deviation.
The reports on the following Bills were further con-
sidered and agreed to:—Edinburgh and Northern Rail-
way (Improvement of the Ferry between Ferry Port on
Craig and the North Shore of the River Tay); Kilmar-
nock Police Improvement; London and North-Westertt
Railway (Orinakirk and Rainford Branch, &c.); Lynn
and Eiy, Ely and Huntingdon, and Lynn and Dere-
ham Railways Atnalgaulation; Stockport Manorial Tulis
and Bridges.

THIRD READINGS.
There were no less than 40 railway Bills standing for
a third readin4 this evening; but, in consequence of the
suggesiion of Mr. Strutt, they were all postponed till
Monday, in order that clauses might be introduced in
them in accordance with the resolutions passed last night.
On the suggestion of Mr. W. PATTEN, utter a abort
discu-sion, it was arranged that the House should sit on
Monday next at twelve o'clock, for the purpose of con-
sidering the third reading,; that had been postponed
to-day, in order that the Bill might be taken up to the
House of Lords the same evening.
Mr. RICE presented a petition from Dover in favour
of the Health of Towns Bill.