The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-14 00:00:00

TU E SUN, LONDON. FRID Y. MAY 14, 1811.

posed of :all, his crop, and could not benefit by the ak:.-
vane° that had taken place—and not the consumer, who
~vas compelled to pay that higher price. A great deal
fiad:bee.n said of the cruelty and oppression that was
practised; upon the black population, in transporting them
*bra their•owq country to labour in the sugar plantations
bf the West Indies and Jamaica, but he could not en-
tirely keep out of view the sufferings and privations of
the working classes of his native country.—(Hear, hear.)
',He could not forget that these men, although able and
willing to work, were unable to earn a subsistence in
their native land. He could not help anticipating that
the present motion would be lost upon a division; and as
it was important that the public faith of the country
;zhecdcrhexeciaerved, it was necessary to see what taxes
VitAx* jtastituted. It appeared to him that her
_Axle. • nisters should recommend an equaliza-
!Expxtffif egacy duty.—(Hear, hear.) That would be
operty tax which would bring in a large
FevAniih he really did not think that the landed in-
lit ciku t ti, offer any opposition to such a proposi-
Aiop.-7, ,rhear.) The real property of the coun-
4ry Of, -t present, contribute one farthing to
tl*e, take i, ;aid he did not think any more judicious
•itep could well be taken under the circumstances. He
would remind the House that there was not grown in
thatt, country within one million of quarters of corn of
the quantity required for the consumption of the popu-
lation, and it appeared to him that the landed interest
• should take into their serious consideration in what way
these millions of quarters were to be supplied. He should
give his cordial support to the measures proposed by the
Government.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. G. PALMER said the Government had endea-
voured to impress upon that House and the country the
useful state of the finances of the country, and had
pointed out the manner in which they proposed to make
good the deficiency by making some alteration in the
differential duties. They had, however, touched very
lightly upon the effect of these measures upon the trade
and resources of the empire, which, in his opinion, would
be seriously affected by them. Attempts had been made
to create division on his (Mr. Palmer's) side of the
House by insinuating that if the Right Hon. Baronet,
the Member for Tamworth, was in the position of Mi-
nisters, he would bring forward similar measures. He
was satisfied, however, that in that they would be en-
tirely mistaken, and that, so far from there being any
division of opinion on his side of the House, on the con-
trary, he believed that many Hon. Members on the other
side would divide With them.—(Hear, hear.)
_ _

Mr. CLAY said that the Hon. Gentleman who had
just sat down had complained that while Members on
that side of the House had strictly confined themselves
to:the question of the sugar duties, which was the one
immediately before the House, Hon. Gentlemen on the
Ministerial side had digressed to the other propositions
of her Majesty's Government on the subject of the im-
port duties, to which that of the sugar duties was only a
prelude. It was perfectly intelligible to him (Mr. Clay)
why Hon. Gentlemen on that (the Opposition) side of
the House should wish to confine their attention strictly
to the question of the sugar duties—that they should be
desirous to look at one part only and not at the whole of
the plan of her Majesty's Government. It was with re-
ference to the sugar duties principally that those strange
and heterogenous elements of which the alliance formed
against the present measures of Government was com-
posed could be best disguised, and he could easily
understandlhat those Hon. Gentlemen should wish to sink in
the war cry o Scharity and freedom to the slave, the less accept-
able watch-words, privilege, exclusion, and monopoly. The
charge of digressing from the point under consideration was
made, as he had said, against Hon. Gentlemen on the Minis-
terial side ; he would then confine himself as much as possible
to the question of the sugar duties. The object of the Govern-
ment plan was to make good the deficiency in the revenue,
by imposing such dirties on sugar as would lead to an increase
in the consumption of that commodity, and thereby to an in-
crease in the revenue, sufficient to make up the deficiency.
He (Mr. Clay) had no doubt that there would be a consider-
able importation of sugar from the East Indies, but they could
not reckon upon the supply generally equalling that of 1840.
me. Larkin, in his evidence before the Import Duties
Committee, said that he believed there could not be
a large importation of sugar into this country from
the East Indies, except at very high prices. Now he (Mr.
Clay) could not see the wisdom of encouraging the growth of
sugar, which could only be introduced into the country at mo-
nopoly prices. It would be far better not to encourage the
outlay of capital on the production of a commodity, the con-
sumption of which would only tend to support the monopoly.
Some years before the termination of slavery in the West In-
dies, those colonies produced a surplus amount of produce. It
was certain that must have met foreign sugar, and have been
brought to the actual test of value. The Hon. Member for
Beverley (Mr. Hogg) said the saccharine value of foreign
Muscovado sugar was greater than the saccharine value
of British sugar, but he (Mr. Clay) believed the fact
to he directly the reverse. At the present moment, as
the House was aware, there was a large trade in England of
refined foreign sugar in bond. This was not admitted to home
consumption, but was all sold abroad, and, the fact was, under-
sold Havannah sugar. Therefore, while protected by no duty,
our refiners took these sugars, refined them, and sent them
abroad, and yet competed with the sugar of Havannah—a suf-
ficient proof that a duty of tie. protection was more than suffi-
cient. The sugar refiners in London told them they were
not afraid of the competition of slave sugar with our own.
He thought the H,,n. Member for Beverley did not correctly
understand saccharine value. 9,128 cwt. of raw sugar would
produce 6,696 cwt. of refined sugar ; and the fact was, that
it was far better to buy foreign Muscavado sugar and refine it,
than to pay the extra duty of Os. on slave sugar. He thought,
also, the Hon. Member for Beverley did not snfficiently at-
tend to the encouragement given by differential duties to the
slave trade. When it was represented by the Noble Lord that
the people of this country paid 2,400,0001. a year for the pur-
pose of restricting the use of slave-grown sugar, he thought it
could not be wondered at if they began to think that they had
made sacrifices enough for that purpose.—( Hear, hear.) He
was much of opinion that West India suear could successfully
compete with any other, and that the price could not be less
than 355. 'l he Hon. Member had highly eulogised the views
in the speech of the Noble Lord (Lord Sandon), but he
thought the country would not receive the Noble Lord's
coun'ers for the bullion of the Ministry. The House was
divided on this subject into two great parties, the motto of the
one being freedom of trade, of the other protection
of vested interests and monopoly.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble
Lord's speech indicated these principles, though the Noble
Lord entitled them protection. He was much inclined to think
that our merchants, who had been forced by the Corn-laws
into a gambling trade. would perceive a considerable difference
between the principle of protection as understood by Hon.
Gentlemen opposite. and by those with whom he had the
honour to act. He had seen with great satisfaction the party
to which he belonged announce their determination to act on
the principles of free trade—(Hear, hear)—and as on
former occasions had been delighted to see them put
themselves at the head of the movement for Parliamen-
tary Reform, so ho was now rejoiced to see them
proposing a reform which he thought was yet more important,
a reform in our Commercial Code. He believed it certain
that at no distant period a reform of this description must take
place, and that when it did so it would promote the comforts of
the
.people of England, and the progressive prosperity of the
empire.—(Cheers. )
Mr. A. CHAPMAN said he objected to the measure of
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, believing that its ten-
dency would be to destroy the shipping, colonies, and
commerce of the country.—( Hear, hear, hear.) He was
an enemy to slavery in any shape. He did not know
what the Tories might do if they come into office, but of this
he was certain, that if the persona who sat now upon the Oppo-
sition benches were in office, they would look to the general
good of the country.—( Hear, hear. )
Sir E. L. BULWER said that, representing an agricultural
constituency, he was bound to state to the House that the pro-
posed duty of Bs. was not a sufficient protection to the agricul-
tural interest. Still he was in favour of a protective rather
than a prohibitive duty.
Mr. HUME said that many Hon. Gentlemen opposite
seemed to look upon the present question as a mere subject for
party triumph. The Hon. Member for Kilmarnock had can-
didly admitted that the debate was of very little importance in
his eyes, unites it ended by placing his party in power, and re-
moving the present Ministers, as incompetent to manage the
public business.—(Hear, hear, from the Opposition benches.)
Other Hon. Gentlemen opposite had entered into details
as to the course which it would be advisable to
follow under the present state of the country—( Hear)—
and among others the Hon. Member for Cambridge, had ex-
pressed his opinion upon the subject, but that opinion was
merely to stand still and do nothing for the country. He
should observe that, in his opinion, no measure of so much im-
portance as the present had ever been introduced into Parlia-
ment during his (Mr. Hume's) experience. Much as he valued
and earnestly as he had supported the Reform Bill, still he was
persuaded that the question then before the House, if carried
out to the extent of which it was capable, would produce to
the mass of the country advantages greater than any
individual who had not attentively considered the subject
could even anticipate. He therefore complained that the No-
ble Lord who had introduced the amendment had in reality
blinked the great question submitted by her Majesty's Govern-
ment, and limited it to the narrow point of slave-grown sug.r,
and how far they ought to abandon the Emancipation Act by
admitting such sugar for consumption into this country. For
his part, he was not disposed to confine himself to so narrow
a view of the subject. There was, in reality, AO part
of the world which might not be said to be
more or less intimately connected with the com-
mercial policy proposed by the Government. In all that
Hon. Gentlemen opposite had said, they seemed to forget,
in their anxiety for slaves abroad, the miseries endured by
the white slaves at hothe ; and it was because the plans of the
Government would diminish the misery, and because they
would extend commerce, and, by affording employment to
the labouring population, put an end to their distress, that he
(Mr. Hume) supported those measures. He had been
surprised at the line taken by the Right Hon. Member for
Cambridge, and the Noble Lord the Member for North
Lancashire, on the present subject. He had expected to find
that those Hon. Members would admit that if there
was one question which was more important than
another, it was the faith which should be main-
tained with the public creditor, and that the expenses of
the country should be liquidated. He would not enter into the
sources of those expenses; no one lamented more than he did
that course which had changed a surplus revenue into a defi-
cient one ; but it was the House in general, and not one side
only or the other, that had urged on these lavish undertakings,
which had led to our present difficulties. He would take that
opportunity of noticing what had fallen from some Hon. Gen-
tleman opposite, who blamed her Majesty's Ministers for
the deficiency which had taken place in the Post-
office.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") It was quite evident
that those Hon. Gentlemen were ignorant of the facts. The
penny-pesti.ige had been brought forward without causing any
reduction in the revenue of the country.— ( Heer, hear, and
laughter, from the Opposition Benches.) Why the revenue
was higher last year than during any of the three preceding
years by the sum of 675,000 e taking into account the Post-
office also.—( Hear, hear.) Hon. Gentlemen opposite did not
seem to know what an aggregate account was; they seemed to
think that because this was a reduction in one account, it
could not be made up in another.—(Loud laughter.)
Before he sat down he would show them that there was a defi-
ciency of the revenue in sugar to the amount of 1,000,0001. in
consequence of the prohibition of the article. Yet such had
been the elasticity of the country that that which was lost in
one article had been more than compensated for in another.
He would venture to say that no reduction of taxes could be of
so much value to the country at large as a revision of our com-
mercial code in a commercial, moral, or scientific point
of view.—( Hear. ) Honourable Gentlemen opposite did not
perhaps know that under the reduced system of
postage one
hundred millions of letters more had passed than under the
firmer system ; and he would ask them whether it was possible
that such an increase in communication could take place with-
out great benefit to the nation in every way. It reflected great
discredit, in his opinion, on the House, that it allowed the re- ,
venue to be exceeded by the expenditure during the
last three years. The deficiency amounted to 6,000,0001. s
and he did expect that under such circumstances
the Right Honourable Member for Cambridge and the

Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire would

admit that the time was come for considering how that defi-
ciency was to be made up. He had also heard with regret
the taunts directed against the Government for having
changed their sentiments on the question then under the con-
sideration of the House. He (Mr. Hume) looked to measures,
and cared not whether they were the result of the deliberations
of a day, or a week, or a year. When the Right Honourable
Baronet the Member for Tamworth assisted, much to
his honour, although contrary to his previous convictions,
in bringing forward the Catholic Emancipation Act, he (Mr.
H.) had never blamed the Right Hon. Baronet because he
had yielded to the pressing emergency of the time. The charge,
however, against Ministers had been mainly insisted on by the
Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire, who should have
been the last man to bring forward a charge of inconsistency
against others. No Member of that House had varied
more in his political life than the Noble Lord him-
self. But he (Mr. Hume) did not blame the Noble Lord
for that; be blamedhim, however,for censuring others for doing
what he had done himself.—( Hear.) Hon. Gentlemen oppo-
site had charged Ministers with bringing forward these mea-
sures at an improper time. But some means should now be
adopted for meeting the deficiency in the revenue; and there
never was a period when our manufactures and commerce were
in so perilous a situation. That was the result of the false
policy pursued by the House ; but after having caused these
calamities, they refused to allow our labouring population the
means of retrieving their losses by increased employment,
and cheaper articles for consumption. The late Governor
of the Bank of England (Sir John Rae Reid) had denied
last night that the country was in a state of
unusual depression; but at the same time the Hon. Baronet
had admitted that in the City there was neither buying nor
selling, and that no money was invested in any way. Surely
that was not an unusual state of things, and it was not in that
way that the interests of the country were to be maintained.
He therefore said that considering the state of the country
the time had come for the measures proposed by Ministers.
If they had, at the commencement of the Session, been as well
acquainted with the difficulties of the country as they now were,
he did not doubt but that they would then have come down
with these measures to Parliament—(Cheers)—but now that
they bad brought forward these measures for meeting the finan-
cial difficulties of the country and for removing the causes
which had produced the present existing state of distress, he
thought they were entitled to praise.—( Cheers.) The Oppo-
sition had never attempted to say how these difficulties were to
be met—they had merely made this a pretext for turning out
the Ministers and leaving the question to itself.—(Cheers.) He
did not doubt but that the Right Hon. Baronet the Member
for Tamworth would, in accordance with his speeches of last
year, declare for free trade, as most of those who had taken
a part in the present debate had done. He entirely agreed
with the definition of free trade given by the Noble Lord, the
Member for North Lancashire, that free trade consisted in the
power of baying at the cheapest market, of selling where best
they could, of having no taxation, except for the purposes of
revenue, and that the smallest possible amount of taxation only
ought to be placed on articles of the first necessity, such as
food; he considered that taking money by taxation from any
one class of of the community to place it in the pockets of any
other class, was unfair and unjust. Now, what had the Noble
Lord, the Member for North Lancashire, said? After admit.
ting these doctrines of free trade, he had said that the landed
interest was in a situation of difficulty, that it required some
protection, and he knew nothing more. And he must say
that the Noble Lord had been rather unfair in taunting
the Government as free traders. Bs. a quarter duty upon wheat
was not free trade, it was only an approximation to it. The
plan of the Noble Lord was only for the reduction of high
duties to a small amount. The Government was not entitled
to the merit of having brought forward a measure of free
trade.—( Hear, hear.) But at the same time the Noble Lord
the Secretary for the Colonies, had made so candid an expla-
nation on the subject, that he was surprised that the Noble.
Lord the Member for North Lancashire, had not recollected it.
The Noble Lord had said that he did not bring forward his
measures as a new proposition. He said that he was merely
following out the plans of Mr. Huskisson, and that he would
be content to allow all the merit to Mr. Huskisson and his
colleagues, if the House would but pass the measure.—( Loud
cheers.) The plan of the Noble Lord had not been
fairly dealt with. The Noble Lord himself, in
a speech which had been properly described as
a masterpiece of eloquence and philosophy, had described the
objects which the Government had in view to be to raise the
revenue to the amount required without the addition of any
new taxes—without having recourse to any loan, and that he
hoped to effect this by a revision of the tariff, by a reduction
of the duties, to promote increased consumption, and then to
add to the comforts of the people, while at the same time the
revenue would be increased.—(Cheers.) There was nothing
about free trade there. He wished there had been, for he was
satisfied they must come to free trade at last.—(Cheers.) He
would request the Noble Lord to study the view which Hon.
Gentlemen opposite took of protection. He held in his hand
a document well deserving of attention. It was an address to
her Majesty from the Colonial Assembly of Jamaica, declaring
that, should the prohibitory duty be reduced—and he begged
the House to mark that they admitted it was prohibitory, and
that the Hon. Member for Antrim the other night had declared
that prohibition, and nothing but prohibition, could satisfy the
West Indians, and in that he was borne out by this de-
claration of the Jamaica Assembly—that should the
prohibitory duty , on foreign sugar be reduced, all
competition on their part w.th the slave-grown sugar of
foreign colonies must be hopeless.—( Cheers.) The Hon.
Member for the Tower Hamlets had, the other evening, stated
the same thing; but no reason had been given, and he.challenged
that Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman to give a reason for

his change in opinion on that subject:- It was but
last year that Exeter-hall had rung with his speeches
on the subject of the superiority as to cheapness of free labour
ovc r dare labour. —( Cheers.) What had occurred since March
IS4O, to induce him to change his opinion? At that period the
Anti-slavery Convention had mine to a resolution that it had

been satisfactorily established, asagWerafaXionl:ll;i free
labour was more profitable and considerably cheaper than slave
labour, and that of all kinds of =lave labour that of recently im-
portetlslaves was the most costly and the least productive.-,-
(Cheers.) What now became of the Hon. Member for New-

ark's position of the advantages possessed by Brazl and Cuba,
in the labour of newly imported negroes ?—(Loud cheers.)
His new ally and Exeter Hall were against him.—( Cheers.)
The Hon. Member for Newark had not a foot to stand upon
for it had been taken from under him by his new ally the
Hight Hon. Member for the Tower Hamlets. He said,
therefore, that some most important change must have taken
place to produce the change in the Right Honourable
Member's mind, because he was one of the Committee who

drew up the resolutions. The new ally of the Hon. Member for
Newark had sunk the Hon. Member and his speech together,
and he wished him joy of him. But, perhaps, he was acting
unjustly in saying that the opinion of the Right Hon. Member
for the Tower Hamlets had been so strangely changed, but he
muA confess it appeared to him an infatuation, and he could
not account for it. He (Mr. Hume) had received protests
from five Slave Societies against the conduct of the Right Hon.
Gentleman.—( Hear, hear.) In what situation were they now
placed? Ministers had not come forward to make this ques-
tion a sugar, or timber, or corn question, but they had not told
them what they intended. He could not tell what the Presi-
dent of the Board of Trade had been about. He admitted
that the tariff contained items that ought to be
altered, and he (Mr. Hume) hoped that they intended
to stike a goodmany of them off. He hoped the Right Hon.
Gentleman, before the debate closed, would state what he in-
tended to do. The Government had said they intended to go
into Committee; if they did so, he (Mr. Hume) had no doubt
he should not agree with these propositions, either with re-
spect to sugar, or timber, or corn, as he did not think they
went far enough. What situation did they stand in on bath
sides of the House? The Government said they meant to
raise the 700,0001. without taxation, and on the other side they
said all they wanted was protection. Now, what was
protection ? It was a tax upon the consumer—
upon the community, not a tax for the revenue,
but a tax to go into the pocket of the party who was
to be benefited at the expense of the people of the country.—
(Mr. Hoeg here entered the House.) He was glad to see the
Member 'for Beverley come into the House, as he had only
waited for him coming for the purpose of showing the absur-
dity of his proceedings.—(A laugh.) He had declared man-
fully that he wished to see the price of all articles low, be: he
had taken an Irish way of showing it, because he wished to
keep on a high tax. He thought the conduct of the lion. Mem-
ber was most inconsistent when he wanted to place the people of
India on a more superior footing to the people of England.
The Hon. Member for Aylesbury had stated that if they wished
to have cheap labour they must have cheap corn. In every
year when corn had been low, trade had flourished, and the
working men of this country had then both good food and
comfortable lodging. 'I he Blue Book, to which so frequent
allusion had been made, showedthat every man who consumed
a quarter of wheat paid a tax of 23s.—not to the State, be it
remembered—not for the general purposes of the country
but for protection to the landed interest. Now he did not blame
those who benefited by the protection, he blamed the law. We
had a wealthy aristocracy in this country, and they said they
were deeply concerned for the condition of the pour. One of
them the other night had cried out—" God forbid that you
should tax the bread of the people"—yet that Noble Lord, as
well as Hon._ Gentlemen opposite, could not deny that the pro-

tection afforded by the present laws took a large, an enormous
sum of money out of the pockets of the people and put it in those
of the landlords. Five millions of men were suffering great
privation—they were not even represented in that House, but
they were taxed for the support of the rich. It was clearly
proved that the landed interest took from the people as much as
the whole taxation of the country—even at 10s. the protection
cost no less than fifty millions annually. It had been said
that, in former times, the bones and sinews of the negro were
ground into the pockets of the planters—he would say that the
hones, and the sinews, and the muscles of the poor in this
country were ground into rent for the landowner. The
Hon. Member for Newark now professeda great sympathy for
the negro—it was rather late to express it now, but had he no
sympathy for the poor of this country ? But the country was
beginning to see through the system ; even the farmers now
fount that when :high prices were maintained, and their leases
fell in, their rents were raised. He would ask when the people
were called upon to pay so much to support private monopolies
could they be so able to meet the demands of the Chancellor
of the Exchequer ? High prices was the cause of the failure of
the Budget of last year, and he could assure the Hon. Gentle-
man opposite that increased taxation would not now be pro-
ductive. He had shown that protection meant nothing
more nor less than taxation, and he trusted the country would
be informed of the fact. The plan of the Government, if car-
ried into effect, would be extremely beneficial to the best in-
terests of the country. In the last year, a tax upon sugar and
coffee alone amounted to six millions sterling, and it was not
surprising that the manufacturing districts of the country
should be in the greatest distress when they were obliged to
pay that sum in addition to the fifty millions upon corn. It
appeared that while the price of colonial sugar was
51s. 6d. per cwt., the price of foreign sugar was only 215.,
making, in round numbers, 30s. per cwt. What, then, be-
came of the Noble Lord's argument, that they were contend-
ing for the infinitetessimal fraction of a farthing per pound ?
The people of that country were paying at least 3d. per pound
over and above the duty to the West Indian proprietors. The
duty upon molasses amounted to 196,0001,
being at the rate
of I4s. 6d. per cwt. The duty on coffee, at 6d. per pound,
amounted to 700,0001. ; making an aggregate upon these three
articles of sugar, corn, and molasses, of 6,315,0001 ,
which the people of England paid by way of protection
He had not introduced the article of timber, which would add
a million or 1,500,0004 to the amount. He wished to show
the House how the weight of taxation had fallen upon the con-
sumption of sugar. In 1821 the consumption of sugar amounted
26,000,000 of pounds, and in 1840 it amounted to 30,000,000
of pounds. In 1821 the quantity of coffee amounted to
7,500,000 pounds, and in 1840 it was 8,700,000 pounds. The
aggregate of tea and coffee in 1821 was 33,973 pounds, while
in 1840 it had increased to 60,000,000 of pounds.
There was an increase of eighty per cent. in the
articles of tea and coffee, whereas the increase in
sugar amounted only to 15 per cent. In 1821 the popula-
tion being eleven millions, and the duty on sugar 20s. per cwt.
the quantity consumed by each individual was calculated at
28bs., whereas in 1840 the .population being twenty-eight
millions, the quantity consume?! by each individual in conse- 1
quence of the increased duty was only 141bs. He would there-
fore press upon the House the necessity of reducing the duty
colonial. sugar upon these important articles of consumption. In order to show
the advantages of such a step, he need only remind the
House that the amount of duty from coffee had greatly in-
creased of late,
at a reduced duty. If no foreign coffee had been admitted the
revenue would hitve been deficient
in consequence of the admission of foreign coffee
consumption of
than ma the preceding year, and if those 18,000 tons
subeihenatd 7reen 000118„. 000 In
tonslB4o lessthe

bad been allowed to be supplied by slave grown
sugar, as they allowed slave grown coffee to come• into
the market, they would not only have the -required re-
venue but also 5,272,0001. in addition. If that plan were
adopted there would be no deficiency in the revenue whatever,
and therefore it was that he held the Government
were warranted in taking the course which the Chancellor of
the Exchequer now pointed out. By advices from Demerara
and several of the West Indian islands, it appeared that the
supply of sugar in the present year would be two-thirds less
than in the preceding year; now how was that deficiency' to
be made up '? The price must necessarily be raised in conse-
quence of the limited supply, and it was for the Government to
provide against any increase in the price of any commodity
so necessary an article of consumption as sugar. With regard
to the protection, he was ready to prove to the House that
it amounted to eighty per cent. instead of twenty per cent.
He said that they ought to be satisfied with 811 per cent. pro-
tection. The difference in price between Brazilian sugar and
yellow on the averages from 1823 to 1833, being the period
when there was a surplus to be exported, was ss. 7d. ;
in 1836, the difference was 12s. 11d. ; in 1837; 13s. 4d. ; in
1838, 12s. sd. ; in 1839, 17s. ld., and in 1840, 275. 7d., or
3d. per lb. The average for the whole period was 16s. Bd.
The quantity consumed was 18,700,000, the duty paid on which
was 15,236,0001. more than it ought to have been. If
that was not taxation, if that was not oppression,
if that was not plunder, let them tell him what was plunder,
what was oppression —(Cheers.) He held in his hand a
calculation framed by an intelligent gentleman in Leeds, which
he had tested and found to be nearly correct, and by which it
appeared that the sum laid for protection duties in Leeds alone
amounted to one million a-year.—( Hear, hear.) The propor-
tion was doubtless the same in ether places. The point then
that he wished to press upon the House was to put an end to
protection ; let them do it gradually, if they pleased.
but let them get out of a bad system, and
into a good one, and adopt those measures which
would promote and extend the commerce of the
country. The Ministers were fortified in the course they
were taking by the opinion of practical men and the
opinion of the country at large.—(Hear, hear.) Various
manufacturers had testified their willingness to abandon
all protection for their own interests, provided our
commercial code was revised. He would revert to an
observation which had fallen last night from the Noble
Lord the Member for North Lancashire.—(Hear.) The
Noble Lord had said that the seed which the Government
had sown would produce its fruit of bitterness. and would be-
come a subject of discord for many years. He (Mr. Flume)
differed from the Noble Lord ; and he begged to assure him
that he would find that famine was not to be restrained.—
(Laughter.) Hon. Gentleman opposite seemed to think little
of the wants of the people which they themselves had created.
With regard to the Government measure he would
tell• the Ministry that though they had begun late
they had begun well, and that they should persevere in
the cause they had undertaken. Let them admit of no com-
promise. Our people were now ground to the earth, and it
was the duty of Ministers to come to their assistance. Let
them discharge their duty towards the people of England.
Let them do justice to the millions, and take away
the fetters which bound their industry. (Hear, hear.)
He had always been anxious for Reform, but had always been
willing to accept of a compromise by way of instalment. On
those who now called out for no compromise, let the respon-
sibility rest. It was impossible we could continue long in our
present situation, with a discontented population, which could
only be kept down by an enormous military and police force.
—( Ironical cheers from the Opposition.) If Hon. Gentle men
opposite doubted what he had stated, let them try the experi-
ment of calling a public meeting in any of the large
towns in England and Scotland.—(Cheers.) He had
been told that the Noble Lord and the Government would be
beaten in that House ; but let him not be alarmed—( Cheers)
—let the Noble Lord stand by his own words, and he had
nothing to fear. The Noble Lord had said that the Cabinet
were intent on these measures of commercial reform ;
that they had done their duty by proposing them
to the House ; and that, if the House rejected them,
on the House would rest the responsibility.—(Loud cheers )
Let the Noble Lord not recede from that declaration; let him
nail his colours to the mast, and there would then be no cause
for alarm.—( Cheers. )
On the motion of Mr. P. HOWARD, the debate was ad •
journed till to-morrow (this day).
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the
Howe Adjourned at Half-past Twelve o'Clock.

SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS.

FROM THE MORNING PAPERS OF THIS DAY.
CHRONICLE.—Our columns of this day afford abundant
evidence of the interest taken by the country in the success of
the extensive commercial reform proposed by Ministers. At
home, we have meetings in the Borough of Southwark, in
Camberwell, -Bethnal-green, and the Tower Hamlets. We
have reports of meetings at Birmingham and Blackburn,
and communications from numerous places in erery part of
the island. Everywhere the language is—the country must
he rescued from monopoly. Everywhere gratitude is
expressed to Ministers, for what our Contemporary,
the Scotsman, calls the • " Glorious Budget of 1841."
The attempt of the Tories to hoodwink the people by their
pretended regard for humanity has proved an utter failure.
The people never, for a moment, separated the different mo-
nopolies, and are quite aware that Lord Sandon's motion is
as much directed against the alteration in the Corn-law and
timber duties, as the admission of foreign sugar at a protect-
ing duty. No man believes for a moment that humanity has
anything to do with Viscount Sandon's motion. It amounts
merely to this—We, the corn and timber monopolists, hand
over to you West Indians the monopoly of the sugar marker,
in return for which you must enable us to exclude
foreign corn except when it reaches a famine price.
Mr. Brotherton stated last night that there were at present
ten thousand people out of employment in Manchester and its
neighbourhood, and many of the mills were working half time ;
and as a proof of the depreciation of property, he instanced a
large mill with sixty-three acres of land, and a mansion worth
four or five thousand pounds, and many dwelling-houses worth
nearly 1,200/. a-year, the whole of which property cost 120,0001.,
and for which, on the failure of the proprietor, about three
}ears ago, his creditors refused 75,0001. That property about
six months ago was offered for sale at 40,0001, and hitherto no
purchaser bad been found for it. In all the manufacturing towns
there are a number of houses unoccupied, and other signs of
distress. Disease, crime, and misery, as the Honourable Mem-
ber observed, were the natural result of this state of things.
What do the Tories propose to themselves? The Ministerial
plan recommends itself by its justice, by its necessity, to meet
the demands of the crisis, and by its c rrespondence with the
opinion prevalent in all classes not under the influence of
sinister interest, that the springs of industry can only be re-
lieved by a substitution of duties for purposes of revenue for
prohibitory duties. Mr. Hastie, as Deputy Chairman of the
East India and China Association, slated last night that there
was not a member of that body who did not fully concur in the
principle announced by the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
He added, that he believed " that a reduction of the im-
port duties would be most beneficial to all classes of the
r (immunity—to the labourer, by bringing the necessaries
of life more ,sithin his reach—to the merchant by facilitating
the exchange of British manufactures for the produce of fo-
reign nations. But will the landowners relish one whit more
his proposal of an equalisation of the legacy duty from which
'real property is at present exempted ?" Something must be
done to supply the wants of the Exchequer, and late experi-
ments have proved that taxes on consumption can be carried
no further. Sir Robert Peel has not yet delivered his senti-
ments on this question, and the public are looking forward to
the mode in which he will endeavour to escape from the diffi-
culties of his position, with considerable anxiety. With all
his dexterity, he cannot avoid taking a position of decided
hostility to the people. He cannot profit by the league
of monopolists, without giving himself over to them
soul and body. The majority, whatever it may be, in favour
of Lord Sandon's resolution, will be obtained by the union of
monopolists, whose ground of hostility to Ministers is the
honest determination of the latter to consult the interests of
the people its preference to the interests of classes. Sir Ro-
bert Peel cannot say, I merely accept the aid of the monopo-
lists now, in order to turn Ministers out, but I shall be
prepared, when in place, to propose the very same measures
which have drawn down on Ministers the hostility of mono-
polists. He cannot throw dirt into the eyes of the people.
However circuitously he may express himself, the plain Eng-
lish.of his propositions must be—common cause with the
West Indians, the land-owners, and the timber monopolists
against the people.
TIMES.—On a point of form involving a new precedent in
military discipline, the motion of Mr. Muntz, in the House of
Commons, last night, for an inquiry into the conduct
of Lord Cardigan could not, perhaps, be warrantably en-
tertained ' • but as far as regards the exigencies and inte-
rests of the public service, we cannot admit that the supposed
existence of a merely technical difficulty is to be sustained as
a sufficient excuse for the laxity of the Horse Guards in
dealing with that noble delinquent. A strict adherence to
forms, is, we acknowledge, an important safeguard of justice.
In ordinary criminal eases which go to affect the liberty or
life of the accused, we have always contended, espe-
cially in opposition to the recent efforts of the Whigs in favour
of summary jurisdiction, that all the minutiae of legal process,
from the empanelling of juries downwards, ought ever to be
scrupulously observed, except in the most trivial instances of
juvenile misconduct. To countenance in any extensive de-
gree a discretionary departure from well-defined rules, would
eventually lead to endless abuses; and accordingly the strictest
possible adherence to forms has uniformly received our humble
but zealons advocacy. But in regard to military irregu-
larities, we are decidedly of opinion that this nice atten-
tion to punctilio is by no means called for. Strong pre-
sumptive evidence, or the personal depositions of wit-
nesses, or the allegations of uncontradicted rumour, may
often, even in the absence of charges requiring the interfe-
rence of a Court-martial, justify the proper authorities in as-
serting her Majesty's prerogative, and in assuming a plenary
power to reprimand or remove the transgressor. Lord Cardi-
gan's is exactly a case in point. Admitting, what we must.
somewhat demur to, that his Lordship has on no occasion ren-
dered himself amenable to the very letter of the Articles
of War, his unhappy notoriety in disturbing and dis-
tracting his regiment, as well as in contracting a
larger share of public odium than has ever attached
to any unsuperseded officer, has so completely de-
stroyed his usefulness in the service, that his promo-
tion to a private station has now become a matter of
urgent necessity. Nor do we argue this question with exclu-
sive reference to his Lordship's peculiarities. Many regi-
mental chiefs, though earning similar preferment in a less
conspicuous way, may be just as deserving of a civil eleva-
tion as the Noble Earl. You cannot bring a Colonel to a
court-martial for being an incorrigible puppy, nor for being
an unpopular martinet, nor for being a despicable eaves-
dropper, nor for encouraging an over-expensive mess,
nor for inflicting an endless 'series of petty and
insupportable persecutions upon his unfortunate subal-
terns. Nevertheless, if we are to be told that no
retributions can reach and rectify these improprieties, ex-
cept such as are formally administered by her Majesty's
Judge Advocate—then we say, that the jurisprudence of the
British army is an a very defective and inefficient state. But
we cannot submit to be told so. Experience reminds us that
under former Commanders-in-Chief, the discipline of the Horse
Guards, even where no judicial process has been deemed neces-
sary, he has repeatedly been exercised upon obnoxious officers
with the most salutary effect. In saying this, we by no means
prejudge Lord Cardigan's case. If an address, to the Crown
fur subjecting it to inquiry be thought objectionable—as per-
haps it is—let the responsible department proceed to deal with
it according to justice ; and, an every account, let his
Lordship have ample opportunity for establishing his
exculpation. Should any of our readers be disposed to think
that this procedure would expose the service to great injustice,
we have simply to remind them that every military commission
is purchased under the perfect consciousness that such a lia •
hility exists, and may be enforced at pleasure. To suppose
that any serious evils might thus be likely to arise from the
indulgence of capricious enmities or undue favouritism, were
just to suppose that the superior authorities would be insane
enough to disregard their official responsibility, or to set at de-
fiance the powerful checks of public opinion and Parliamentary
cognizance. That Lord Cardigan's case demands the in-
terfererence of the Horse Guards, in some form more
exemplary and effective than has yet been exercised,
is the common conviction of all England. We
are no advocates for a tyrannical absolutism ; but
neither can we be satisfied with an unmerited official lenity.
The Noble Lord has rendered himself universally obnoxious.
The public welfare demands that he shall be subjected to a
little of that discipline which he so mercilessly inflicts upon
others Nay, no further fencing, my Lord,—the thing must
be done. As for Mr. Muntz—bless his beard—be must be

made a Vice-Presilent of the " Sabbath-Observance Society,"
without a moment's delay. The co-operation of such a pious
and learned Rabbi, against the 'Sunday trading of Lord Car-
digan, must be really invaluable. But seriously, his Lordship's
desecration of that sacred day, for such a questionable purpose,
cannot be reprobated with sufficient severity : it was disgrace-
ful in the extreme.

MONEY MARKET and CITY NEWS.

FRO3I THE 31ORNIAT9 PAPERS OF THIS DA!.

CHRONICLE.—The funds displayed more firmness tc-day
although the demand for money still continues in the Stock
Exchange.
. _ _

The effect which the election of Espartero to the sole Regency
of Spain would produce in Spanish finance has not as yet had
time to operate. The proceedings, however, are extremely
creditable to the Spanish people, evincing great prudence and
moderation under trying circumstances. Arguelles is one of
the highest families in the Asturias, and extremely popular.
The first vote in favour of a single Regency appears to have
been carried by a majority of seventeen. The next, which
was between Espartero and Arguelles, was carried by a
majority of seventy-six in favour of the former, the numbers
being 179 and 103.
TIMES.—The inquiry into banking affairs by the Select
Committee of the House of Commons appears to have been
brought to an abrupt termination. After examining one wit-
;less on behalf of the Bank of Ireland, and another from the
Provincial Bank of Ireland, it is understood that they have
now adjourned sine die for the Chairman to prepare a'report.
In what degree this can be justified by the completeness of the
evidence laid before them can only be ascertained when that
evidence appears in print, but it is strongly suspected in
the City that in the main object of the inquiry—viz., the
cause of the pressure's and panics in the Money Market,
and the proper remedy for them, little if any progre=s has
been made in the present session ; and hence itis anticipated
that this committee, like many which have preceded it, will
turn out to be a complete failure. This would be, perhaps,
the conclusion generally drawn, taking into account the cha.
racter and constitution of the Committee and the names of the
witnesses examined, but it is lamentable to state, as the almost
universal belief, that this hasty termination of the proceedings
of the Committee, and disappointment, as it most likely must
be, of the whole trading interest, are the result of the present
contest of parties, occupying. as it does, the almost undivided
attention of the members of the Legislature, and to which, as
usually happens in such cases, the public good is sacrificed.
The English stocks were quiet, and there was no alteration
in prices except in Exchequer.bills, which, in consequence of
money being yet in some demand at 5 per cent., declined Is.
SUN.—The Funds closed with rather a heavy appearance, but
there was no actual decline in prices. Consols for imme-
diate transfer brought 896 to 891, and for the 25th instant,
891 to 891. At the close of the day the quotations had a down-
ward tendency. The unfunded debt went lower again, viz., to
3 and 5 prem., and East India Bonds dropped to 1 and 2 dis.
Bank Stock barely supported its value, being at 168 to 167,
but India Stock remained at 251 k. The New Three-and-a-
Half per Cents, were worth 984 to 98k, and the Three per
Cent. Reduced 881 to 884.
The Spanish Bonds were not mush influenced by the election
of Espartero, upon which the speculators have confidently cal-
culated for some time past. The Active Stock was quoted to-
day 24 to 24*, being a per cent. above the highest price of
yesterday. The Deferred Bonds were at 114. Portuguese
New Five per Cents. improved to 34i and 341 for the next
Account ; and the Three per Cents. were at 201. Mexican
Bonds were at 281 to 4, and Colombian 221, being the previous
rates ; but Brazilian receded to 671, and Buenos Ayres rose to
23. The Dutch Two-and-a-Half per Cents. were at 521.
The Share Market is in rather a feeble condition, and the
operations have been very limited. Great Western Railway
Shares' were 274 to 28, the New at 14i, the Fifths at 71, and
the York and North Midland at 73 premium ex. new. North
Midland Shares were 241, the New 31, Brighton 31 to 2%,
Blackwell 7, and Manchester and Leeds 14 discount. London
Joint-stock Bank Shares were 21 premium, and National Pro-
vincial Bank of England 1 premium.

IMPERIAL BRAZILIAN MINING

COMPANY►

The general meeting of the Shareholders of the Im-
perial Brazilian Mining Company was held yesterday,
being made special in consequence of a requisition dated
the 4th ult., for the purpose of taking into consideration
the propriety of emancipating the slaves held by the
Company, and securing their future freedom. A circu-
lar had in the meanwhile been sent to the Shareholders
by the signers of the requisition, greatly deprecating
the system of slavery as carried on at present. The
feeling. of the Directors was, however, opposed to the
emancipation ; and in their circular letter calling the
meeting, they stated as their opinion, that the adoption
of the measure proposed would involve a winding-up of
the concern, and be injurious even to the negroes them-
selves. This opinion was advanced to show the neces-
sity of attending the meeting, which was indeed most
numerous. Far from the object of the requisition being
carried into effect, no more than six voices were in sup-
port of the emancipation, while all the rest were
against it.
This circumstance, together with the attention drawn
to the slave question pending the debates on the sugar
duties, will justify a reference to the last file of New
York papers, which show much of the present feeling of
the United States on the subject. A point that is con-
sidered with the utmost interest is, whether Congress
possesses authority under the Constitution to prohibit the
sale of slaves from one State to another, and some of the
papers of the last arrival are employed in sifting the opi-
nions of Mr. Daniel Webster on this point, conceiving
that the sentiments of one so high in office are well worth
ascertaining. Mr. Cuthbert, the Senator for Georgia, ad-
dressed a letter to Mr. Webster last March, with the view of
learning from that Senator himself what his views really
were, but receiving no more than a denial to correspond
on the subject, has published extracts from a debate in
the Senate in the year 1837, and also from the report
and resolutions of the Massachusetts Legislature of the
same year. These resolutions were to the effect, that
Congress has, by the Constitution, power to abolish the
traffic in slaves between the different States, and that
humanity and justice demanded the exercise of this
power, and seem to have been founded on the argument
contained in a memorial presented to Congress as far
back as the year 1819, and signed by Daniel Webster,
and others. In these arguments reference is made to the
9th sectionlof the Ist article of the Constitution, clause 1,
which provides that " the migration or importation
of such persons as any of the States now existing
shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited
by the Congress prior to the year 1808," and the infe-
rence drawn from this limiting clause is, that it neces-
sarily assumes the power of prohibition to be vested in
Congress, which, though limited for a certain definite
time (that is, till the year 1808) has since that time
come into full effect. Another clause in the Constitution
(Art. 1, sec. 8, clause 3) empowering Congress " to regu-
late commerce with foreign nations, and among the se-
veral States," is interpreted in the same memorial as like-
wise giving Congress power over the slave trade in ques-
tion, for that clause has been considered ever since 1808,
as giving power over the foreign slave trade, and it may
be applied with equal force to a slave trade between the
States. As this memorial, signed by Mr. Webster,
was in 1838 cited by the Massachusetts Legislature
in promulgating the dootrine, and he made no attempt to re-
tract the opinions it contained, it is argued that it is perfectly
fair to assume that his opinion of the power of Congress in this
matter remained unaltered in 1838. Aware, however, how
unpopular such a doctrine would be in the Southern States, the
advocates of Mr. Webster say that during the Presidential
canvas last autumn he manifested a change of opinion, but to
this it is objected, that such manifestations are but general,
while the interpretation of the Constitution in the memorial
was most specific, and can only be removed by a specific re-
traction. In the Senate of the United States, in 1837, Mr.
Webster gave it as his opinion, that as Congress had the right
to regulate trade and commerce between the States, it
had necessarily a right to regulate a trade in slaves, which are
one of the articles of commerce, while, at the same time he de-
nied that Congress had any power to interfere with slavery in
the States, two statements which his opponents find very diffi-
cult to reconcile.

Although the object of the allegation that Mr. Webster
really believes in the doctrine mentioned above is only to place
him in an unpopular position, there is enough in them to show
that the slave-holding States are beginning to feel serious ap-
prehension respecting the continuance of their traffic. The
question at issue is one of the many so frequently brought for-
ward as to the amount of power given by the Constitution to
Congress ; but so much importance could scarcely be attached
to the assertion of a mere power possessed by Congress, with-
out reference to the expediency of employing that power (for
on this Mr. Webster; gives no opinion), were it not felt that
there is a strong party who might use their legislative influence
to destroy the slave trade in every form.