The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-05 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY MORNING, MARCH 5, 1847.

`disembarked. In their passage through the town
the populace were very violent, and ill-treated them.
Looking at all the facts of the case, there was no re-
flection whatever on the civil officers; and the sheriff, in
what he had done—had acted entirely in concurrence
with the magistrates of the county. So far from his
being likely to act in a harsh and hasty manner, he was
well known to be a gentleman of a benevolent and kindly
character.
CENTRAL RAILWAY TERMINUS, GLASGOW.
Mr. BOUVERIE moved that an humble address be
presented to her Majesty, that she will be graciously
pleased to give directions,' that there be laid before this
House a copy of the Report made by the Commissioners
appointed to consider and report upon the advantages or
otherwise which might be afforded by a central railway
terminus in the city of Glasgow.
LABOURS ON PUBLIC WORKS IN IRELAND.

Mr. E. DENISON had a question to ask the Right
Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for Ireland in relation to
the relief granted under the public works. It appeared
that, according to his statement on the 19th of January,
there were 450,000 persons employed on these works,
The time for putting the seed in the ground was come,
and was passing away, and he wished to ask his Right
Hon. Friend what progress had been made in disbanding
the large army of labourers now employed upon unpro-
ductive works ? He wished to know what number of
men were employed, and whether his Right Hon. Friend
had any objection to place on the table of the House,
weekly, a return of the number of men employed upon
these works, so long as the works themselves should con-
tinue in progress.
Mr. L ABOUCHE liE said that he had no objection
to give his Honourable Friend the information he re-
quired, or the weekly return of the number of persons
employed upon these public works. With regard to the
other question his Hon. Friend had put respecting the
number of men now employed upon the public
works, he regretted to say that it was
found impossible, not only to reduce the
number of men, but also to prevent a great increase in
that number. He had lately stated the number to be
450,000. His Hon. Friend must recollect that a bill
which was to be passed by the House, and which
did in a certain degree affect the public works,
had not yet come into operation, and it had
therefore been impossible to prevent the numbers em-
ployed from increasing. Distress had been greatly on
the increase lately in Ireland, and the number of men
employed upon relief works, according to a return for
the week ending the 20th of February amounted to
668,000.—(Great sensation.)
Lord G. BENTINCK (who was almost inaudible),
wished to know the number of applications which had
been made for loans to the Lord Lieutenant.

Mr. LABOUCHERE was not able to answer the ques-
tion of the Noble Lord. All that he could say was, that
power had been given to the Lord Lieutenant to carry into
effect the intentions of the Government in the manner in
which he should think most desirable. The Lord Lieu-
tenant had come to the determination of not ad-
vancing money but of advancing seed, in small
quantities, to be repaid in a short time. There had
not been a great number of applications made.
The Lord Lieutenant would not advance seed except for
wheat, he thought it better to leave the supply of corn
seed to come through the ordinary channels, as any in-
terference would do more harm than good.
Lord GEORGE BENTINCK wished to know if the
Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for Ireland had
any objection to lay upon the table of the House a
return distinguishing the different professions of the
persons engaged on the public works.
Mr.LABOUC HERE said he would give a return,show-
ing the names of the persons, and distinguishing the dif-
ferent works upon which they were engaged, but it was
quite impossible to give a return, distinguishing the dif-
ferent professions of the persons employed, in the short
time allowed him for making the returns.
Lord G. BENTINCK said he would undertake that
the information could be collected within a week.

Mr. LABOUCHERE said his only wish was to give
the fullest information, but it would take a good deal of
time to give a return distinguishing the labourer from
the small farmer, or the farmer from the mechanic.

Major MACNAMARA wished to know whe❑ he
might expect the returns he had moved for connected
with his Hon. Colleague.

Mr. LABOUCHERE said both he and the officers
of the Board of Works were anxious that the returns
should be made as soon as possible, but sufficient time
had not yet elapsed to admit of their preparation.
GAME LAWS.

Mr. COLLETT wished to inquire of the Hon. Gen-
tleman the Secretary of State for the Home Department,
if the Government intended to introduce, this session,
any Bill with respect to the Game Laws, in a•coadance
with the recommendation of the Committee of last
session?

Sir GEORGE GREY was understood to say, that if
the Hon. Gentleman would give him notice of his ques-
tion, he should lose no time in replying to it.
DRAINAGE AMENDMENT BILL.

Lord LINCOLN wished to know if the Honourable
Gentleman (Sir G. Grey) intended to take the second
reading of this Bill before Easter. The reason
he asked the question was this, that he was anxious
to ascertain the number of applications which had been
made for assistance under the Bill, before it was further
proceeded with. He understood that a list of the Mem-
bers who had so applied, would be shortly laid on the
table, so that they could have some means of judging.
Sir. G. GREY said he intended to move the second
reading to-morrow night. It was necessary that the
Bill should be proceeded with without delay.
POOR-LAW AUDITORS.

Sir W. JAMES wished to know whether the
Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home
Department considered that auditors would be justified
in refusing to audit accounts submitted to them in their
official capacity in accordance with the decision of the
law officers of the Crown?

Sir GEORGE GREY said an auditor so acting
would incur great responsibility, but he was empowered
to exercise his discretion as to allowing or disallowing
accounts. If the parties were dissatisfied with his de-
cision, they had the power of appealing to the Poor•law
Commissioners.

BOARDS OF WORKS.
Mr. W. R. COLLETT wished to know whether the
House could be furnished with the names and occupations
of the 11,000 overseers employed on the productive and
unproductive works of Ireland ?
Mr. LAI3OUCHERE would be quite ready as soon
as the returns of the overseers were received to lay them
on the table of the House. These returns would
comprise the number of the people employed, together
with how many were employed inland, and how many
were engaged in the works of piers and harbours. If
her Majesty's Government received any further in-
formation, there would be every disposition to produce it
as amply as it was obtained.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL gave notice that on the House
going into Committee of Supply, he would move that
the people now employed on the public works should for
the remainder of the term be engaged in the tillage of
the land.—(Hear, hear.)
E M IGRATION.

Mr. VERNON SMITH rose to move..." That, in
order to assist and encourage voluntary emigration to
the colonies, it is expedient to increase the importance
and authority of the Land and Emigration Board, to add
to their agency in Great Britain and Ireland, and pro-
mote their vigilant superintendence of the passage and
future location of the emigrants." In putting this
motion to the House he was not disposed to go into any
long and discursive inquiry into the important subject
of emigration from the United Kingdom•, firstly, because
at no distant period it had been respectively put before the
House by the Hon. Members for Limerick, Sheffield, and
Liskeard ; secondly, because he had not the eloquence
and information to bring the subject before it which those
Hon. Gentlemen had evinced ; and, thirdly, because he
hoped to obtain some result by his motion, which those
Gentlemen had been unable to achieve. But in the few
remarks which he had to offer to the House, he in-
tended to confine himself to the terms of the motion
which he had to submit. This he should do, because it
was universally allowed that some system of emigration
was necessary, and was in coincidence with the feelings
of the public and the House. He believed that any
system of national emigration would never be coun-
tenanced either by the House or the Government but,
on the other hand, there was no doubt but that a
right system of emigration would be countenanced
both by her Majesty's Ministers aad the country.
He believed that the present time was the most favourable
that could be selected for emigration. If Hon. Members
would read the blue books upon their tables, they would
find that much disease arose from the over-crowding of
the poorer classes in certain districts of their towns and
cities. In the agricultural districts the most lamentable
instances of destitution occurred from the low rate of
wages, and the Irish Secretary of State had also informed
them that the'number of destitute, weekly employed by
the Boardof Public Works in Ireland, amounted to no
less than 668,000 persons. It was his firm impression
ttwha
htaeiotoont
hrh
would
dhopour
docdoop alterationslnhooesanevidechsiaswn obuelsdtnott
injuriousia effectth e
os system s
thete m of fo transpor-
tation s pemi-
grant. By the arrangement of bounties for emi-
gration to the colonies, the honest working man
allowed
a Sears of
ft
the passage
a s
saugpe
his family, if he we o• educate g
even
rule was that no bountyrsehodaelsdirous of going out to
of any of his children under be
pnoegsilteiootnedwahnedn
thaekognotupthfeorre ?sonaNVee.hThe
allowed to those above
fifty years of age or below seve And what was his
that,at perhaps, the
taken into one of the places for reform
children of his next-door neighbour,yreformation,
had
dd been
e
petty theft, and been
out there at the public expense with everyve expectation
of mending as well as the children of the honestxpee
grant. If that short sketch of the present position of
emigration were true, he begged the House to consider
what, were the difficulties against any plan to be adopted.
The motion of which he had given notice applied more
particularly to what was called the Land and Emigration
Board. There was a board of that description in
operation, however litCe its existence might be known.
The commissioners were zealous in the discharge
of their 'duties, but they had not the means of
properly carrying out their operations. The Member
for Liskeard stated, in 1844, that a gentleman from
Canada wished to make some inquiries in England with
reference to emigration, and although much interested
in this question, he was not aware of the existence of
that board. When gentlemen applied to him on the
subject of emigration, he invariably referred them to
this board, but the information given by this board in
founder
written of this
the
the country was so scanty that it was hardly worth
commissionhaving haying. The
in
Noble Lord shortly afterwards, to the members of the
commission, he correctly defined their duties. Many of
1840, and
aLndor din w
a a s
letter he
these duties, it was true, had since become obsolete, but
although they had not altogether expired, they had been
very much limited, and this was one of the reasons which
had induced him to bring forward his present motion.
Many delusive emigratory projects had been suggested
from time to time, but few had boon carried out ; but

in no instance had the Emigration Board propounded
any scheme of sound emigration, though be admitted
they had been most useful in preventing unsound emi-
gration. In fact, the board was nothing more than a
mere referee of the Colonial-office, and might as well
have its offices at the Colonial-office as in Park-street.
Dr. Rolfe, of Canada, who had paid much attention to
the subject of emigration, had divided the subject into
three parts—the way in which emigrants should be in-
vited to leave this country ; their treatment during their
voyage ; and the manner in which they sheuld be re-
ceived when they reached their destination ;—all of
which were most important questions. In his (Mr. V.
Smith's) opinion, the present system was deficient in
each of these points. First, no proper information was
spread throughout the country with respect to emigra-
tion, so that those desirous of being informed on the
subject had no proper means of obtaining it. It was all
very well to say that the Colonial-office was ready to
reply to all letters which were received by that depart-
ment requesting information, but they ought to freely
promulgate information on the subject throughout the
whole country, so that parties desirous of emigrating
might know where to seek it. Private companies wish-
ing to promote emigration, appointed agents in all
the towns in the localities from which parties were
likely to emigrate, to afford information. This
was what the Government was deficient in. These
companies not only afforded the utmost information, but
put forward, in addition, the most delusive statements,
for the purpose of tempting people to emigrate under
their auspices; side by side with which the Government
should issue correct information, so that persons might
not be deceived. In fact, there was no reason why an
agent should not make a circuit through the country for
the purpose of ascertaining the parties desirous of emi-
grating, and for the purpose of affording them ample
and correct information ; in addition to whom, he saw
no reason why they should not appoint agencies in all
the principal towns, for the purpose of dispensing infor-
mation, which would be attended with but little expense.
Lord Sydenham saw the necessity of appointing Go-
vernment agents, as he was of opinion that a Govern-
ment agent ought to accompany every emigrant ship
going to the north of America, and the present Earl
Grey was in favour of erecting villages in Canada for
the use of emigrants ; but he revoked his plan, beeause
ho found that no private company felt disposed to carry
out such a plan. It appeared from the statement of Mr.
Hall, that German emigrants were better cared for than
those of this country, as they were plentifully provided
during their voyage with animal food, bread, beer, lime
juice, and other necessaries during their voyages,
which were generally longer than those per-
formed by British vessels. Mr. Mills, who had
published a pamphlet
_on " Colonization," and who was
well conversant with the subject, as he went out to
Canada with some of his father's labourers from 'War-
wickshire, pointed out the great advantage of having
agents. There were but ten agents at the outports of
this country and Ireland. By a return it appeared that
170 emigrated from Southampton, and 542 from Hull,
last year ; but there wa-s no agent at either of these
ports. Last year 1,056 emigrated from Galway, 1,108
from Waterford, and 814 from Newcross, near Water-
ford, yet there was no agent at either of them. Owing
to the want of agents, prosecutions for infractions of the
passenger laws were continually taking place.
Six causes had recently occurred in Canada, and 13 in
New Brunswick. Mr. Mills stated that more than
four-fifths of the emigrants of this country em-
barked at Liverpool, yet that town had but one
agent, who, even with the aid of a clerk, could
not, by any possibility, transact the business that was
assigned to him in a proper manner, as it was necessary
to attend all the ships that left, and frequently a great
number left in one morning. Then a careful superin-
tendence during the voyage could not fail to conduce to the
comfort of the emigrants, and save expense, by prevent-
ing those infractions to which he had referred. In 1841
the Noble Lord at the head of the Govern-
ment spoke favourably of affording the utmost
facilities and comforts to the emigrants ; he
trusted the Noble Lord would adhere to those opinions
in 1847. The superintendence ought to be performed
by medical officers, who were in the habit of receiving
about 2001. a-year for the discharge of duties of a
similar nature. The worst part was the reception of
Illhe emigrants when they arrived at their destination. In
this respect the arrangements of the Government were
most deficient. It was acknowledged in Australia that
the best mode of dealing with the emigrants on their
arrival was to disperse them ; and what was wanted was
some person to point out to them what was best to be
done, and where it was likely that they would find em-
ployment, and consequently, a subsistence. 'the want of
such an agent entailed much misery on emigrants as
they arrived in strange land, almost ignorant of its cus-
toms, and as to the best way to proceed to turn their
labour or their capital to the best advantage. Great
advantages would accrue by the establishment of such
agents in both Australia and Canada. Great expense
would not be thus entailed upon the country by the adop-
tion of such a plan, as few persons might perform very
important offices for a large number. Certainly the
three points he had raised were well worthy the most
serious consideration of the Emigration Board.
The next subject was one of considerable delicacy,
but it was a most important one ; he
meant female emigration. It would be found that the
greatest disparity prevailed in the number of the sexes
in many of our colonies. In Van Diemen's Land there
were 40,788 males, and but 18,114 females ; and many
of the other colonies presented similar results. The
lion. Member then read several long extracts to show
the very great deficiency of female immigrants in the
colonies. Mrs. Chisholme, a lady of great experience
upon these points, stated in her evidence that a good
n ay to remedy this defect would be the sending of a
number of young women, under proper guardianship.
He did not see why Government should not appoint a
commission to control emigration ; they were appointing
commissions upon every other subject—upon the poor-
laws and upon railways. He did not think that it should
he left under the entire control of the emigration board.
There was nothing in the scheme which he proposed
which, in his opinion, could meet with objectious from
the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He did not ask for
millions—he only sought a few thousand
system
of
d poundstelmn
order to establish a more complete and extended
-
of emigration. He desired that there should be some
method which would ensure to the emigrant the ad-
vantage of good advice and guidance as to where he
should settle. and how devote his labour.
Mr. MACKINNON seconded the resolution, in order to be
enabled to say a few words to the House.
Any person who
immediately
connected himself with a colonial board, became was
impressed with the idea that emigration
bjected to
sovereign panacea for all evils.
any interference by the Government respecting this question.
He could not see any advantage which would arise froamsmtahlei
motion of the Right Hon. Gentleman. Certainly, at
expense of 2,0001. or 3,000/., his suggestion could if
be carried
into effect, it would be of utility to attempt it, but if any greater
sum were required, be thought that the less of thepublicmo bneye
which was expended the better ; and he thought it would
better that any advance should not be made to encourage emi-
gration. He thanked the House for its attention to him while
wh
he had addressed it, and although he did
nftagur ec
hter.it) the
principle of the motion he should second it.—.
Mr. LEFROY. would not detain the House n
time, but he was anxious to say a few words uPeaaogklgensog.bject.th. o f
suffering as it
He thought it desirable that while Ireland
was
e which would
then was from want of employment, any
relieve it from its over-population wouldine
beMember's proposi-
orf benefit. He
admitted the principle of the Honourable
tion fur encouraging voluntary eductive measures
that it would be one of the most
emigration; and he thought
that could be adopted by the Government.P
but rather as a
The emigration, if
encouraged, would not be felt as a banishment,
relief and a benefit. He trusted that if the resoolurtt,iotnhsoosftatthee.
Hon. Member did not receive any material PP
lsclugo forth to, and
ment by which he had accompanied it,
would
to, the subject ;
call the attention of her Majesty's G"ernmin
so that if not immediately adopted,
some ulationeasures m
to emigrate
ight be
eventually taken to assist the starving Piot'
ment would be se-
to a land where good treatment and emp y
cured to them.
Mr. KERR said that he felt it necessary
the
theannkse ;thefoHr,onin.
Member for proposing these resolutions to H
his opinion, they were admirably cnlculatferdomforotvheer.rpeolpieofiaotfiothoe.
present want of employment arisio g
loy
--ing 665,000 men in
The Government were at present em
Ireland at an enormous expense,
of
andPa.ll that burden on the
country might be obviated by the adopt'.
mea-
sures as those proposed by the Hon. Membern.
some such
Mr. HAWES could assure_ h It he
iht Hon. Gentleman
who brought forward this motion,
aethiant
whichhadbenboat
donbernwngobrdt
of complaint to urge against the w y
it forward. He thought, however, that his RBigohartdHeofnE. Friend
rather under-estimated the exertions
ef the
tion. Its duties were rather to assist than to stimulate emi-
gration, and he sheuld be enabled.
bento ,hew p
w therefeHrmoeudse
ably
ture
stalously by the gentlemen comp g to grant the vote pro-
posed by the Hon. Member,
Posing
to say that, even if Parliament
it would be almost impossible to
„ft, a unless it was employed on the payment
of the passages of the emigrants, apply it "cc"- and that was a mode of using
it which the Right Hon. Gentleman would hardly recommend.
The House would perhaps consider for a moment with re-
ference to what
the Board bad done, the number of emi-
grants it had been the means of quietly and
piu
successfullyoroto
haf
sending out of the country.t
ry. There
twheu t
system of active superintendence at
embarkation and of landing, that the emigrant might be said
to be under a total superintendence during his whole voyage.
During the last ten years, the number of emigrants sent to
Australia, amounted to 20,000, sent under the management of
the office, and 28,000 under its immediate superintendence ;
making a total of 48,000 during the last ten years. The mor-
tality on board of the different vessels had also been decreased
5
from the amount of per
He
cent. in the first ships, to a half per
cent, in the latest ships. _. would also refer to the emigration
of Coolies to the West Indies, which had been most actively
carried on, and the mortality was considerably decreasing in
the first instance.
His Right Hon. Friend had hardly, there-
fore, done justice to the labours of the commissioners, con-
sidering
the large returns which he had jest given to the House.
Let him also state to the House the enormous extent of
voluntary emigration, which had
proceeded during
the last ten years undere superintendence of the
commissioners alone. The th
account of voluntary emigrants,
from the year 1837 to the year 1846 inclusive, amounted to the
enormous number of 856,392 persons, of whom 700,000 bad
gone to America alone. Now he would venture to say there
never was so large a mass of people taken out of this country,
with so little inconvenience and expense, under a system of
superintendence, as those had been under the voluntary
system.
An Hox. Alzassza. here moved that the House be counted.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, but there being
forty Members present, the House resumed.
Mr. HAWES, in continuation of his address, read extracts
from several returns of the Colonial-office, showing the great
advantages of the voluntary system of emigration. With
regard to the proceedings of the Emigration Board
he believed they had done the best in their power to make the
agents under their control as efficient as possible, and to give the
greatest protection to those intending to emigrate. The Hon.
Member made his motion, it would appear, in reference to the
present emergency, and in order to ease it by a more exten-
sive system of emigration. On that head he (Mr. Hawes)
would inform him, that every endeavour would be made to in-
crease the stream of voluntary emigration, and to effect that,
there would be greater efficiency given to the agency at Liver-
pool and other ports. Respecting any comprehensive scheme
of emigration, the Government, he had no doubt, would be
prepared to give every consideration to any that might be
brought forward which appeared of a practical and useful cha-
• racter. But whatever was done for the advancement of emigre-

tion, he would beg leave to observe, that one of the very first
things they would have to do, in order to make it
successful, would be to give a free constitution—a good
system of self government, to every colony they
might establish, towards which the recent charter given to
New Zealand, he might rstmark, was a step in that direction.
There was another point to which he would beg leave to make
some observations. The Hon. Member had advised the send-
ing of agents into every parish in the country, and the cir-
culating of tracts and publications, to excite a feeling in favour
of emigration. That was a course which he (Mr. Hawes)
could not consent to, for, independent of the expense of such a
plan, it would be a most dangerous and unsatisfactory pro-
ceeding. He had no desire directly to negative the motion of
the Hon. Member, whom he believed to be actuated by the
best intentions, and he would, therefore, content himself by
moving the previous question.
After a few words from Mr. FOSTER, which were inaudible
in the gallery,
Dr. BOWRING expressed himself that the system of
emigration, hitherto carried on with our colonies, was of a
most unsatisfactory character. He hoped that in future the
Government would give full effect to the expression of the
Hon. Member (Mr. Hawes) that free constitutions would be
given to the colonies. He would ask the Hon. Member what
were the intentions of the Government in this respect?
Mr. H A WES excused himself from giving any answer tis
the question at present. He would only remark that at the
beginning of last session a Noble Lord on the other side of
the House explained the plan which was intended to be taken
in respect to the colonies, and the first fruits of it was seen in
the charter which had been granted to New Zealand.
Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN considered the Government had
not shown itself hitherto sufficiently impressed with the im-
portance of emigration, and hence the arrangements made in
referense to it were of the most defective character. In the
beginning of the session, he called the attention of her
Majesty's Government to the necessity of the Emigration
Board issuing information in a circular every year, at the be-
ginning of the season to intending emigrants, with regard to the
best places of location, rates of wages, &c. ; but nothing had
been done to effect such a desirable object. He quite agreed
with the Hon. Member for Northampton, respecting the ap-
pointment of agents, as he considered there ought not be a
single outport without an emigration agent. They were ap-
proaching a crisis in emigration, and they should be prepared
with efficient arrangements for it. Another point to which he
wished to direct the attention of the Government was, the
greater facilities which might be given to the Board of Guar-
dians to assist emigration from Ireland, and if agencies could
be formed in the colonies to transport emigrants to the places
where their labour was required, it would be a great step in
the right direction. He thought that this desirable good might
be obtained by a Government advance to the same extent as
the capital furnished by the emigrant himself.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that he would endeavour to
reply to the observations of the Hon. Member. The Hon.
Gentleman had asked, in the first place, whether they could
form an estimate of the number of persons who had emigrated
into the British North American Colonies. It was impossible
to give any estimate of the kind; and It was because they
were unable to form this estimate that, after a great deal of
consideration, they had thought it unadvisable to undertake
the payment of the passage-money for intending emigrants.
Under the operation of the former system, the great number
of the emigrants arriving in Canada were left destitute in such
towns as Montreal ; they endured a vast amount of suffering,
and were, therefore, proportionably disappointed, after having
crossed the seas to better their condition. There was also this
further evil attending the system, that it originated and kept
alive an indisposition to emigration among those left at home.
It was, therefore, in the opinion of the Government, better
that emigration should be carried out by individual exertion,
assisted as it might be by voluntary assistance from landlords,
and from other private sources. The Hon. Gentleman knew
full well that a very large sum —he believed above 200,0001.
had been transmitted from persons resident in the colonies to
friends in this country, for the purpose of assisting them to
emigrate. This was a very satisfactory proof that great exer-
tions could be made without any aid from Government. But
the Honourable Gentleman asked further, whether it was
she opinion of the Government that the Emigration
tax should be continued. At first sight this tax was an appa-
rent obstruction to emigration. He did not think, however,
that it was a real obstruction, and, therefore, he considered
that it should be continued. The object of the tax was a praise-
worthy one. The House was aware that many emigrants ar-
rived at Quebec in a most pitiable condition, who were unable
to go up into the country either from physical inability, or the
want of funds ; while, at the same time, there was a sufficient
demand for labour in Western Canada. The tax itself did not
exceed ss. a head; and one of its objects was to give assist-
ance to such individuals ; another object was to provide hospi-
tals for the sick. The consequence had been, that the emigra-
tion reports had been very satisfactory. He found that the
emigration in the year 1846 into North America
was 125,678; into Australia, 2,347 ; into other
places, 1,786, making a total of 129,821. The Honour-
able Member was not perhaps aware that Government
voted a small sum annually for the purpose of giving assistance
to emigrants who desired to reach the interior of the country.
He did not know what the precise amount was, but it was not
proposed to diminish the sum this year, and if it should ap-
pear that emigration would proceed upon a more extended
scale than usual, it might be deemed expedient to increase it.
He was strongly of opinion that if they created an artificial
stimulus in addition to the great national desire that now ex-
isted for emigration, they would run a risk of so inundating
those colonies that the residents,would find it difficult to subsist.
He was informed that in the state of New York it was under
deliberation whether they should not impose a tax with the
view of putting a check on the present tide of emigration.
For these reasons he was of opinion that no assistance from
Government would be required.
Mr. HOPE thought that the Board of Emigration would
have been sufficiently active if they had had money enough, and
sinless they were to institute some large and extended system
of Government emigration, assisted from, and supported by the
public funds, they would not carry out their objects to the ex-
tent so much desired by the Right Hon. Gentleman.
Mr. CHARLES BULLER rose to observe that the re-
marks which he had made on the occasion referred to, was
simply that, with reference to the colonisation of North Ame•
rica, the association had acted on the hope that they could
rectify a great defect, and one which arose out of the fact that
its operations had been impeded by the majority of the
public lands which had passed from the hands of the Govern-
ment into the hands of private individuals. His Noble Friend
had stated before the commencement of the session, that, in
his opinion, it made not one tittle of difference as to how
these monies were to be applied, so that they were used for the
purposes of the Commission. But a material point arose
as to how far this wou!d affect the people of Ireland,
and he believed that if these resources had been funded
that the system might have succeeded, and that it would
be possible to found British colonies in any part of the world.
Now, no one was more desirous of promoting colonisation, but
he believed, for his own part, that a great mistake was made on
this subject. There was at the present moment two great ob-
stacles to carrying out the plan of colonisation ; the first was,
that no sufficient means had been devised by the Legislature
for carrying out this system of colonisation, so as to enable
emigrants to go out ; the second was, that if they did go out,
there was no land fund in existence for providing
resources for the emigrants. In Upper Canada, where
there was the largest and finest block of fertile land unoccupied
in the world—but of that immense block by far the greater part
had been granted to absentee props ietors, and out of 17,000,000
acres of the finest land in that province, not more than
6,000 acres remained in the possession of the Crown—
all the rest had been jobbed away. Then,
again, in Prince Edward's Island, which, from its geographical
position, for the fertility of its soil, and for the salubrity of
its climate, offered one of the very finest fields in the whole
world for extensive colonisation from its insular position as
well as its relative position with respect to Great Britain. The
United States and Canada offered the best prospects for com-
mercial intercourse. There were in the hands of the public an
extensive tract of upwards of a million of acres of exeellent
land which, at the present moment, were only supporting
about a population of 12,000 inhabitants, and that 12,000 of
the most stagnant, unintellectual, and unprogressive
community in the world, and yet this extensive province that
had thus been left to stagnate had been granted to a number of
people who had never been in America, and who never in-
tended to go there, and yet it presented the noblest opportunity
for colonisation that could possibly be conceived. But
if they wished to look at a country which possessed
the greatest opportunity for colonisation—one which was
boundless in extent, admirably situated for commercial rela-
tions, and likely in every way to strengthen the relations of
the empire, they would turn to the country of which the Cape
of Good Hope was the boundary, but they all knew what was the
reason which prevented the occupation of that country for the
purposes of colonisation, in the proper sense of the word—that
was the savage war that was being carried on upon the frontier
of the British possessions. Then there were the colonies of
Australia and New Zealand, to which the attention of the pre-
sent commissioners had been so energetically turned, and, could
it have been carried out, colonisation and sending out emi-
grants on a grand plan would have been the rest It. But to
this there was now an obstacle. Then the only plan was, to
encourage a large emigration to the United States and Canada,
and to this matter the commissioners had directed their most
earnest attention. He owned that the Commission had been
placed in the hands of men who, he did not meau to say had
net a full knowlege of our colonial empire, or who were not
desirous of promoting the cause of colonisation, or were not
aware of its manifest importance, but he would say, that the
report of the Emigration Commissioners had not been suffi-
ciently entertained by the Colonial-office, and that no system
had been adopted by the Government worthy of the British
colonies—no system worthy of our ancestors, or such as our
ancestors had successfully carried into effect, and they must,
therefore, look in some other direction. He would, therefore,
repeat, that in the very commencement of their system they
must proceed in a different way, for they must in the first
place provide the means for the emigrant to go out ; and they
must in the second, from the disposal of lands, provide the
funds for conveying the emigrant to the most distant parts of
the wcrld.—( Cheers. )
Sir WALTER JAMES was sorry to hear that the only
sum to be voted for the purposes of emigration was the paltry
sum of 5,0001., while he saw that the sum of 8,000,0001. had
been voted for Ireland during the present year, and
10,000,0001. altogether had been granted for the relief of
that country. He hoped the Noble Lord only intended
to limit the amount of the grant to the present year,
for if the people were to obtain a higher description
of food, they must at the same time receive a higher set of
wages for their work, and to do this he was aware that the
expense must be incurred. But would not the funds be a
great deal better expended on some system for the removal of
the Irish poor. Many pamphlets had been published on the
subject, which he could assure the Noble Lord and the House
of Commons that some of them detailed many grave and
startling facts well worthy of the consideration of both, fer it
was his firm belief that one-half of the population will die of
famine. Under these circumstances, then, he thought that it
would be only wise in the Noble Lord to grant this miserable
sum of 5,000/. for the present year, for if he did not it would
certainly foster the notion that wasdonuoe alwal theylre could to relieveadywidelyspread
i '-
ng that the Government had not
the distresses of the Irish population.
Mr. HOPE explained that he had only desired to reduce the
exppenses of emigration.
VERNON
the Ssaidou
sthat u
nor
re wouldwould noth e ,
occupy much of Htionin replyofthe H
I:tltleTu
the zealand
ability of his
under present circumstances, press his motion to a division.
He was quite ready to acknowledge
Noble Friend, and the attention which he had paid to the
objects of the commission, but when the attention of the
Muse had been drawn to this subject in 1831, and again in
1836, and subsequently in 1841, it certainly was his impression
that some effectual steps would be taken for carrying out the
opinions ' which had been so generally expressed.
n.
The motion was
then withd raven.

Mr. HUME rose to move the adoption of the resolutions of
which he had given notice, via.:-1. That this House, con-
sidering the faithful observance of the General Act of Congress,
or treaty of Vienna, on the 9th day of June, 1815, as the
basis of the peace and welfare of Europe views with alarm and
indignation the incorporation of the free city of Cracow, and
of its territory, into the empire of Austria, by virtue of a con-
vention entered into at Vienna, on the 6th day of November,
1846, by Russia, Prussia, and Austria, in manifest violation
of the said treaty. 2. That it appears, by returns laid before
Parliament, that there has already been paid from the British
Treasury towards the principal and for the interest of the
debt, called Russo-Dutch Loan, between the years 1816 and
1846, both inclusive, the sum of 40,490,750 florins, equal to
3,374,479/. sterling money ; and that the liquidation of the
principal and interest 01 the remaining ptrt of the loan, as

/ stipulated by the Act 2d and 3d of William the Fourth,
cap. 81, will require further annual payments from the Bri-
tish Treasury until the year 1915, ameunting to 47,006,250
florins, equal to 3,917,187/, sterling money—making then
the aggregate payment 7,291,666/. ; and the average, for each
of the 100 years, of 72,916/. 3. That the convention of the
16th day of November, 1831, between his Majesty the King of
Great Britain and Ireland and the Emperor of all the Russia',
was made to explain the stipulations of the treaty between
Great Britain, Russia, and the Netherlands, signed at London
en the 19th day of May, 1815, and included in the treaty of
Vienna ; and by that convention it was agreed by Great
Britain "to secure to Russia the payment of a portion of her
Dutch debt in consideration of the general arrangements of the
Congress of Vienna, to which she had given her adhesion ;
arrangements which remain in full force." 4. That this
House is, therefore, of opinion, that Russia having with-
drawn that adhesion, and those arrangements being, through
her act, no longer in force, the payments from this country,
on account of that debt, should be henceforth suspended.
In moving the adoption of these resolutions, and calling the at-
tention of the House to the subject of which he had given
notice, he trusted that it would not lose any of its importance
by the feebleness of the ability which he had to bring to its
support. But yet, though it might in some degree suffer from
this cause, he could not consent any longer to postpone ins
consideration, and from introducing it to the House, on that
account. When towards the close of the last session he drew
the attention of the House to the subject of Cracow, it would
be recollected that he had stated that at that time that free
city was held in military occupation by a Russo-Austrian
force, and that it was likely to continue to be so
held. And ho had not done this for the mere
solitary instance of the occupation of which he
spoke, for in 1831 the same violation of treaties had
been committed, and military occupation of the city had been
retained for years. Again, in 1836, the same circumstance
had occurred, and then, also, the occupation had been retained
for years ; and yet the Noble Lord at the head of the Foreign
Department bad begged the House to give no cre-
dence to his statements, for that he was in possession
of better information than any which he possessed, and bad
asserted that the occupation would soon cease. A Noble Duke
in another place had also made the assertion that the occupation
would be only temporary; but what was the fact? Why, that
the first information which reached this country was, that the
whole of the treaties had been violated. He had always found
that when we were parties to a treaty we always retained our
honour and kept our faith, but he found that when the three
Powers to whom he referred were parties they seldom either
kept honour or good faith. But it might be said that we were
now under different circumstances; for, respecting the occu-
pation of Cracow, they had the assertion in her Majesty's
speech at the commencement of the present session, that the
occupation of Cracow was a gross violation of the treaty
of Vienna, and that the infraction of that treaty was quite un-
justifiable on the part of Austria, Russia, and Prus-
sia. He trusted that he should not be met by
the answer that he was limited in this inquiry by the position
of the foreign department, for here was a plain declaration of
the injustice of this annihilation of the free State of Cracow in

the speech of her Majesty, and she had ordered the papers and
documents respecting it to be placed on the table. He held
these papers in his hand, and if Hon. Members had perused
these papers as he had done, they would perceive that the first
alarm of this iniquity had been created as early as January or
February in last year, and that the notice that it was intended
to occupy Cracow by a military force had been given shortly
afterwards by Mr. Macginnis, and that explanations had been
demanded by the British Government. But he did not find that
any explanation of this act of injustice had been given by the
three Powers, and from Jan. to August no information whatever
had been received, although it had been repeatedly called for
both by the Earl of Aberdeen and Lord Palmerston, and he
did think that some notice ought to have been given of the
intention of the three Powers thus to proceed. The letter of
Lord Aberdeen bore all the characteristics by which his
diplomatic correspondence was usually marked. The one he
alluded to was dated on the 25th of June, and it was distin-
guished by that coolness and caution, and prudence, which
were always prominently evident in the Noble Earl's corres-
pondence. It stated, with his usual caution, that he would
come to no sudden decision, bnt that he would suspend his
judgment with respect to Cracow, until he had all the diplo-
matic dispatches before him. He (Mr. Hume) found that the
first letter of Lord Palmerston was dated on the 4th of
August, and it forcibly declared that this occnprtion of Cracow
was clearly a gross - violation of the treaty of Vienna.
But these papers were valuable, in so far as they put beyond
all doubt the real nature of this transaction, and any Hon.
Member who had the patience to read two letters which the
papers contained on this subject, must be convinced that the
part Prince Metternich had taken reflected little credit upon
that nobleman. Prince Metternich, it would seem, had satis-
fied himself that Cracow was only an atom—a geographical
atom. Now when this geographical atom formed the subject
of a great negotiation, and occupied four or five articles of the
important treaty of Vienna, it did appear to him to be a laxity
of mind—a disregard of decorum—to apply such a term to it;
and the word of honour of the man who had thus con-
sented to the annexation of Cracow and its territory was
not worth a rash.—( Hear, hear.) It would be remembered
that on the 11th of November, the Austrian Government
published the declaration to the world. That declaration was
to the effect that the State of Cracow, of its own free will and
accord, had consented to the annexation. Now there was not
one word of truth in all that, and the Noble Lord at the head
of the foreign department, had shown it to be false in the able
answer he had published upon the subject ; and he must be
allowed to repeat, that there was not a man, either within or
Outside the walls of that House, who could find one word of
truth in the paragraph he had just read. The declaration
went on to say that Cracow had moreover violated the conditions
upon which its freedom was based. There was in that, also,
not one word of truth ; while again, it would be seen in the
last page of the return, that the Courts of Austria, Prussia, and
Russia, had discovered conspiracies in Cracow, which had never
existed. Still the declaration concluded by stating, that the
Court, after taking these circumstances into their considera-
tion, had deliberately, in accordance, as they believed, with all
existing treaties, determined to annex Cracow to the empire of
Austria. Now the Noble Lord (Lord Palmerston) had, in
plain langurge, pointed out how totally erroneous that was.
But even supposing that it was dangerous to allow the
freedom of Cracow to continue it was not for
those, who were only three of the parties
to the general treaty, to have annihilated that State. The three
courts ought rather to have submitted their reasons for appre-
hending danger to the other States who were parties to the
treaty, and called upon them to sanction the alteration they
wished to be effected. Had they pursued that course, and
succeeded in pointing out the danger th a would result to
Austria Irani the continuance of Cracow as a free State. lie was
not totrzaarreabdi
y bound to m
thatthe a
make the , alliesalterationwou d not
in the treaty,
ave beenmorally
andbut
he was there to say, that they being only three out of the eight
or nine Sovereigns to the compact, they were not warranted by
any law to be found existing in any civilised nation, to take
upon themselves the act of annexation. The Noble Lord the
Minister for Foreign Affairs, very properly complained that
he was not apprised of the existence of these dangers,
while from the power Austria had over the police of Cracow,
and over persons going to or from Cracow, it was almost
impossible that the danger could be real, and consequently the
whole of the measures which had been taken by the three
Powers were founded upon the grossest injustice. On one
occasion the Noble Lord stated that he considered that the
territory of Cracow formed no part of the treaty of Vienna,
but he was glad to observe that the Noble Lord in his letter
of remonstrance admitted that Cracow was included in the
treaty of Vienna. Now he did hope that after that, there
would be no attempt made to repeat the allegation that there
had been no violation of the treaty of Vienna. It might have
been expected that men who owed so much to Great. Britain,
who owed so much to her efforts, and to her large expenditure
of money—an expenditure amounting to six hundred millions
sterling, voluntarily spent—in order to place the con-
tinent of Europe in a state of security, would have
refrained from offering England an insult beyond any thing
he had ever read of. When he remembered that nearly every
state in Europe owed its independence to the efforts and exer-
tions of England, it did appear to him to be a strange want of
courtesy that all the three Courts should not have taken the
least notice of her remonstrance. He asked if the declaration
of Ferdinand, dated the 1 Rh of November, did not set aside
the whole of the treaty of Vienna ? and he asked if it was not
sufficient to urge Government to take some decided steps in
the matter. He knew nothing more dishonourable than the
proceedings of the three Powers; and in order to show the
House the view he took of the question, he was disposed to
adopt not a simple protest, which they did not care for, but he
would have them show their opinion of the transaction in a
stronger manner, and he trusted the British House of
Commons would lend their support to the view he took of this
matter. He was asked that morning if he wished for war ;
his answer was no, he was a man of peace. He was not for
war, but having in his power, under a legislative enactment,
the disposal of a certain sum of money which England intended
to guarantee and pay under certain stipulations, he intended to
mai k his displeasure of this Act by withholding that money.
The stipulation under which the money was paid had been vio-
lated, and England being therefore absolved from its payment,
he proposed to submit four resolutions to the House, for
legalising the forfeiture of the money. The Treaty of Vienna
was come to for the purpose of settling the balance of power in
Europe, and to effect that object, Great Britain made many
sacrifices, plainly showing that she was disinterested in all her
proceedings. Therefore, it became important that they should
look to the grounds on which the treaty was made, with the
view of ascertaining if its stipulations had not been violated.
He was one of those who had always objected to the treaty, but
he was anxious to see peacerestored, and on that ground he gave
his reluctant consent to it. But still there were stipulations
in that treaty which he had invariably objected to, and should
never cease to think that it was a stain upon the honour of
England when she consented to partitions of Poland—he meant
the partitions of 1773, 1793, and 1795. He drew up on
paper a sketch of the violations of the principles of freedom
which were committed in connexion with Poland. In 1773
there was a division of land to the extent of 3,600 miles, con-
taining a population of 6,360,000 persons. That amount of
territory was distributed between Russia, Austria, and Prussia.
There was a strong feeling manifest in England against this
glaring violation of the principles of independence, and cer-
tainly the feeling did honour to the country. In the same
manner, in 1793, there were 6,850 miles of land taken from Po-
land, having a population of 7,100,000 persons; while, in
1795, there was another division of 4,592 square
miles, with a population of six millions and a half, so that on
the whole there were twenty millions of people divided between
the three powers, ten millions to Austria, five and a half to
Prussia, and four and a half to Russia. That robbery and
separation was sanctioned by the assembled powers at Vienna,
and when he considered the sacrifice of honour, England made
in concurring in the partition, he could not help thinking that
if they continued to carry out the guarantee after the stipula-
tions founded upon it were violated, England would be as
Vienna bad as the robbers themselves. The treaty of
above all, he thought, to be carried out bythoiesena owht
g
for whom
England had made so many sacrifices, but more particularly
Austria, who in the day of her trouble, when she was
nearly overwhelmed by Buonaparte, and her exchequer
was exhausted, England maintained her army, and
advanced a loan of upwards of sixty millions, but now that
these three powers had disregarded its provisions, it ought no
longer to be respected by this country ; at least so far as the
payment of the money alluded to in his resolution was con-
cerned. Austria had only paid half her debt back again to
this country, and after this act of tyranny, followed by the
insult to England of disregarding the remonstrance of the
British Government against the infraction of the treaty, he
thought wherever she made her appearance her features ought
to be stamped with shame, and her people ever reproved
for sanctioning this act of ingratitude and tyranny.
He was anxious not to be met by the statement that no in-
fraction of the Treaty of Vienna had taken place. When he
saw that treaty, bearing the signature of France, Prussia,
Portugal, Russia, Sardinia, Sweden, indeed of every state
but that of Spain, This country had signed that treaty also,
and had, therefore, rendered ourselves parties to the crime.
And was this country, then, to allow these parties to violate
the treaty, that we are one of the guarantees to ? He hoped the
time was come when such would not be the case. Lest there
should be any doubt as to the mode in which they were bound
to support Cracow, he would call the attention of the House
to the treaty signed on the 21st of April, 1815, declaring the
independence of the free City of Cracow. The sixth article
stated that no person inimical to the peace of Cracow should
remain, and if found in the city they should be delivered up on
application to the Austrian Government. Now no such person
had resided its Cracow, or if they did, no such application- had
been made, the parties would have been given up by the
Senate. The liberty of the person, as well as the
Free: of Cracow, were also goarrautood by the Emperor

Niclislas, who, upon his accession to the throne in
1825 took an oath, in which he swore and promised before
God to maintain and execute to the utmost of his power the
constitution of Cracow. Had he performed his oath ? Mem-
bers of the Diet had been imprisoned for uttering opinions in
their official character, and numbers of the inhabitants had
also been unjustly imprisoned. The liberty of the press did
not exist for a single day after the possession of that city by
Russia; the liberty of the press was trodden under foot. The
nakedness and unkindness of this mode of procedure ought to
be exposed to the public ; this country should learn a lesson by
experience, and it should divest itself of all connection with
such faithless men, and maintain their honour unsullied instead
of being dragged along with them to the commission of
such crimes. The right of public representation was to be
given, and an annual budget was to be submitted
to the people ; but during these last f.fteen years, no budget;
had ever been submitted to the people, no representation of the
public had been effected. The two charters were to be open to
the public. Had this promise been kept? No. The Emperor
Nicholas had issued an ordinance, directing the doors of the
chambers to be closed. The Russian troops were only to be
admitted into Poland under certain circumstances, and then to
be supported by Russia. Had that stipulation been attended
to ? The first thing done by the Emperor was to send a
standing army, which were supported by the inhabitants of
Cracow, under every form of oppression and injustice. And
)et England stood by and submitted to all this patiently and
quietly. In the year 16.32 the constitution of Poland was en•
tirely destroyed. Since that time thousands of Polish chil—
dren have been taken away, and sent to Russia, for the osten—
sible purpose of educating them, but in reality for the purpose
of destroying their love for the mother country ; they had
ground the people down by oppressive taxation, and universal
spoliation, by the suppression of the public universities, and
the abolition of the bishoprics. What would the Right Hon.
Baronet, the (Member for the University of Oxford say
to that ?—( Hear, hear.) The Emperor had also appropri—
ated the revenues of the national church, and applied them to
the purpose of propagating another and a totally distinct creed.
Surely his Right Hon. Friend would support him in his.
motion, if for no other reason than the shameful attacks upon
the Church of ruined Poland. He (Mr. Hume) was perfectly
ignorant of the amount of atrocities inflicted upon the Pole's
until he had looked narrowly into the subject, and became im-
pressed with the utter magnitude' of the violation. No na—
tional representation had been granted to the Polish subjects
by Russia. Prussia had granted a representative diet to her
subjects, including among its members the Polish portion of
them. Austria had in some degree done the same. Russia,
had alone refused it. The Poles had been forbidden by Russia
their own language ; their system of religion had been
abolished.—(Hear.) Surely this was a subject calling for
interference en the part of the British Government. Lord
Castlereagh had said, when speaking of Russia to the Minister
of that country, that Russia having penetrated almost to the
very heart of Prussia, and having obtained upon the south—
east Moldavia, Wallachia, and Pomerania, should be careful
not to excite jealousy among the other countries of Europe,
end further stated that the whole object of the treaty
of Vienna was permanently to settle the peace of Europe.
When such conduct in Powers ;who were parties to a solemn
treaty was evinced, he asked what was the use of having any—
thing to do with treaties at all ? Why should not England
stand aloof altogether, and thereby keep ourselves free from
the calumny which must attend on such violations? But
there was now a change—an epoch had occurred ; the legal
sanction conferred by the Treaty of Vienna to the division of
Poland was gone ; every obligation was destroyed, and every
nation in Europe was now free to act, if they thought proper,
to restore that country to the people. He knew not why the
same law should not prevail on the Rhine and the Danube, and
the property of that oppressed people to be restored to its proper
owners. When rogues quarrelled, the saying was that honest
men got their own.—(Laughter.) He said those rogues had
quarrelled—( Great laughter)—and he knew no reason why
the kingdom of Poland should not be again set up. He begged
to ask whether her Majesty's Ministers had confidence in those
contracting Powers ? he asked whether the people of Austria
and Prussia had confidence in their Governments.

An How. MEMBER near the Hon. Gentlemen (as we un—
derstood) asked him whether he advised a revolution in thole
countries?

M. HOME said he did not advise that ; but, beyond what
ee had said already, he went much further. He must say
that the people of those countries were absolved from oblige.
tion to their Governments, and the day might come when they
would be roused probably to resistance. If he could look at
the horizon at all, his opinion on these events was, that what
had taken place, took away all security from every small state
in Europe ; it had made physical force the rule of the day, and
if physical force should become the rule, he asked the House to
consider what would be the consequences ? The suppression of
the independence of Cracow destroyed all pretext for European
international law. The faith of treaties was gone. If any
man believed otherwise, he called upon him to assert his
opinion, and when he had made the assertion, (to prove it.--
( Hear, hear.) He emphatically said the peace of Europe was
gone. He felt he must refer the House to the correspondence
which had occurred between one of those powers and Switxera.
land. The Hon. Member, after reminding the House of the
change which had taken place among the States of Switzerland,
read a portion of the letter from the Court of Austria to the
Federal Government of Switzerland, in which it was stated
that that Court, always respecting international treaties
and good faith, would continue to respect her relation
with the States of Switzerland, so long as the power
of the Federal Government, was not virtually invaded, for
that federal Government was recognised and satisfied in the
treaty of 1815. The Hon. Member could not conceive how
that Court could be so impudent, for he knew no worse word
—(Laughter)—by which to characterise her conduct. In his
opinion, a less warrantable statement than that which he had
just quoted, had never been made before a criminal judge. He
must say that proceedings as these were only the commence-
ment of violations ; it led necessarily to more iminent risk of
breach upon the peace of Europe, which was now deprived of all
security. Notwithstanding the sacrifices at which that peace
had been gained, and security to Poland guaranteed, the vio-
lations of these had new been such that her Majesty was under
the necessity of emphatically marking her opinion of them
from the throne. It became this country then to express their
abhorence of the deed. The time was now come when matters
so serious, must be viewed in a proper light, and he hoped her
majesty's Ministers would be moved to exert their
utmost power to express their abhorrence of the
act; he hoped the house would do the same,
and that the blouse had it in their power
to exhibit their indignation emphatically, as he hoped to show.
Ile must, however, notice in passing the representation givers
by the Noble Lord (Lord G. I3entinck) of the situation of
Cracow. That Noble Lord stated that the Polish inhabitants
of Cracow, on the occasion of the entry of foreign troops into
their country, had danced and made bonfires, and exhibited
other demonstrations of joy. He knew not what might be the
source of the Noble Lord's information, but he (Mr. flume)
had a document in his hand, the genuineness of which he did
not doubt for a moment, giving a picture the very opposite of
that drawn by the Noble Lord; and he must think that the
Noble Lord's description applied to the oppressors and not to
the oppressed. He said he had yet to show that money had
been paid, and was being paid, to one of the contracting powers,
which ought not to be paid. By the fourth article of the
treaty of Vienna, a treaty between England, Russia,
end Holland, was set forth respecting the Russo-Dutch
Loan, which was payable on two contingencies.
One of these was the allegiance of Belgium
to the King of the Netherlands. England bound herself for
the interest, 25,000,000 florins, at 1 per cent., payable from the
year 1815 to the year 1915, just one hundred years ; and art
Act was passed in that House to enable the Government to
make that payment. But in 1831 there was a change. Lithe
year 1830, Belgium was separated by a revolution from the
Crown of Netherlands. England sanctioned the separation, and
yet continued to pay the money stipulated in the treaty. He
thought they were then paying what they had no right to pay,
ar.d he in his place stated then that he thought
they were wrong. The Government on that occasion were not
convinced, but on second thoughts they afterwards brought in;
an Act to sanction the payment. In the year 1831 there was
a new convention negotiated between England and Russia, al-
tering the treaty of 1815 to suit the change of circumstances.
and that convention, after stipulating identity of conduct be-
tween the courts of London and St. Petersburgh, in respect of
Belgium, re-organised the treaty of Vienna as binding, and
stipulated its observance. An Act ratifying that Convention.
was brought in and passed in the 2d and 3d of William IV.,
c. 81. If such, then, was the express declaration of that Act
and that convention, equally binding as was the former Act
and treaty, he asked the House now to set aside that Act as
they had set aside the treaty of 1815. If he asked them to
do that because it was his own opinion, they might consider it
of very little value, but a learned civilian, who was very com-
petent to farm a correct judgment on the subject, said that ill
consequence of the infraction of the treaty by Russia the Go-
vernment of England was absolved from paying the loan for
which they had ssipulated. If they continued to pay
it another Act of Parliament would be necessary according to
this gentleman's views, for they could not do so by the Act
under which they paid it now. He was indebted to the Hon.
Member for Kinsale for the opinion that they had no legal
right to pay the money. That Hon. Gentleman also put into
his hand an extract from Vatel, which was to the effect, thet
the several articles composing one treaty could not be consi.
tiered as several distinct treaties. There could be no doubt but
the treaty of Vienna had been violated, and it was also equally
true that while in the ratification of that treaty there were some
of the articles agreed to, and there were others objected to. If
one part, therefore, of the obligation was broken, there was
nothing obligatory in the remainder. We had also ex-
tracts from Grotius and from Martin's " Law of
Nations" to support the same view. Let them
now see how the payments of the Russian-Dutch loan. had
proceeded. From 1816 to 1846 there had been 645,9331. of
principal of this loan paid off, and 2,728,000/. ninterest,
making a total of 3,374,0001. A pretty sum that for a
havecoun-
try whichmor e
thanthe Chancellor6o,ocoasl. of the
surplus Exclteguer
revenue sal d
forwotul
he
pre_
not
the
sent year I The Hon. Member then read over the thirtdretso-
lution which he intended to move, and proceeded to say that
he
had now progressed, step by step, in unfolding the
shown thevarious pro-
ceedings connected with that convention. He had
'
sacrifices which England made from the year 1815
re—dhey alhact
shown that the treaty of Vienna had been cons
who were parties to it as the basis of the future
national arrangements
treaty bad beery
agreed to by the contracting parties,
that several articles in that
of Europe
and that the independ-
ence— he had shown
a manifest violation of
that the proceedings of Au
of Cracow was expressslytrfa reuawraenteed in it. He had shown:
that solemn engagement--he had
readshown
extracts thatr Lorda from several Palmerston:
concurred in this opinion. He had
authorities on thelate Northernwhof treaties,p h
who unanimously
hadous shown lyschoo thatndemned
the proceedings of
while Russia had broken her treaties, England had strictly
kept here. He did think, therefore, that under these circum..
stances the Ministry ought to have the moral courage to take
the course which he proposed to them, and not permit the
people of England to be parties to this Russian degradation.
At all events ho hoped the House of Commons would not, as
far as they were concerned, suffer such an infraction of the
most solemn treaties without pronouncing against it their
strongest condemnation. The Hon. Member concluded by
moving the resolutions, which will be found at the commence...
went of this speech.
Lord SANDON seconded the motion, and thought himself
fully warranted in doing so. The most remarkable part of the
transaction :appeared to him to be the undisguised
manner
which these Powers carried out their intentions. The Nobles Lord proceeded to draw the attention of the House to the
correspondence that passed between the Charge des Affaires of'
France, the Earl of Westmorland, and the Minister of
Foreign Affaires in Prussia, from the Ist of April, when the
movements of the great powers became suspected_
tili the 25th June, when the Earl of Aberdeen wrote
his dispatch to the British consul at Warsaw..
After a silence of three months a formidable dispatch ap-
peared, to which the name of Prince Metternich was attached,.
setting forth, first, that Cracow had forfeited all title to be art,
independent state ; and, secondly, that no other powers had
any right to be consulted as to any proceedings which the
three powers might think proper to adopt with respect to it.
But to enter into a controversy on all the points, after they had;
been so fully dealt with by the Ministers of France and England.
would be a work of supererogation, yet it seemed but naturak
that the House should express its concurrence in the courser
taken by the Government of this country with respect to thee
conduct of these powers. He was one of those who utterly
repudiated the doctrine, that the question ought to be con..
sidered as a domestic one in which the other powers oh
Europe ought not to be consulted ; it was a most
extraordinary
tho
whole
proceeding.
argument
clperhapsClearly
they t h
em
distinctostezttraataotrtihdpieuniaatarthe. thingoll
i•
tween Austria, Russia, and England was, that