The Sun.
London, England, 1841-08-25 00:00:00

MORNING St N,

measures for the relief of the trade of the country ? On that foun-
dation they sound stand and stand firmly, but they had been
brought forward as measures o finance ; that foundation was
rotted, and on that foundation they could net stand.—( Opposi-
tion cheers.) They were well consdered measures, as nieosures
of commercial policy, but as measures of finance it was im-
possible to listen with patience to the arguments advanced in
their support. The simple statement of the figures would
render it impossible for any man who knew anything
of finance to consider these measures as measure
of finance and revpnue. Why, could any mortal living
believe that any part of the revenue could be safely looked to
for a sliding from a tax whioh depended upon the seastons.—
( Hear, hear.) Why, let them look to the averages, to their
own papers of prices. There had been three consecutive years
in which not one farthing would accrue to the revenue from the
Bs. duty. In 1834, 1835, and 1836 the prices of wheat were
such that the prices in foreign countries, added to the amount
of freight to the Bs. dvty, would have rendered it impossible for
a single bushel of foreign wheat to have found its way into
this Wintry. His Noble Fria I had stated 565. as an aver gs,
at which no foreign wheat cou d be imported ; but they might
even go solow as 51s , and at that price it would be impossible
that any wheat could be imported into this country from Rotter-
dam, I)antzic, or Hamburgh. It mi st be equally clear that we
might have years in which we should not impart a single
grain—but on that point one argument was enough.
It was not to a tax which for three consecutive years
might fail them altogether that they could look
as a financial measure. It might be urged, on the other side,
that as those years would be years of great cheapness, there
would be an increase in the comforts of the people, and a con-
sequent increase in the consumption of exciseable commodities,
which might be placed as a set off against any failure in the re-
test-me to be derived from tire Bs. duty. But there was one
thing which distinguished a prudent, cautious, and safe finan-
cier, and that was that he always took into his account that as
in some years he might have a defalcation in his excise duties,
in other years he might have an excess, and he framed his cal-
culatiane in such a mariner as to put the excess of one
year against the defalcation of another, and thus he could
not claim the eases, of a good year as a set off against
a deficiency in the corn tax for that year.—t Hear, hear. )
It was impossible to represent this as a finance measure,
Neither was the nature of these measures such as to ob-
tain for them that support to which they might have been
fairly entitled. In that House they could calmly discuss
such questions, but when they appealed to the people ques-
tions of mere political philosophy were not those which they
cotild ?ping most home to their understandings, the re-
quired something more tangible. Let them look at lie
timber duties. The proposed measure was an improvement
upon the present system Pin doubt, but it had this great
defect, it professed to be a Measure of free trade, and it
began by doubling the duty on Colonial timber—true, it
took off nine per cent. from the duty on Baltic timber, but
the people only saw in it a measure taking off
a duty of nine per cent. and imposing a duty of
100 per cent. presented to throe as a measure of free trade.
Now, that was what they could not understand. Again. with
regard to sugar, it was proposed to reduce the duty on that all
but neceeeary of life, Is. 6d. a cwt., 6-10ths of a farthing per
lb. Now they all knew, whether they were consumers, or
dealers, or speculators; that such a reduction in the duty would
go into the pockets not o: the consumer, but of the dealer.—
( Hear, hear.) Then, as to the coin. He considered that the
substitution of a fixed duty for the sliding scale, was a
great improvement. He was against any sudden and total
repeal of the Corn-laws—against any doing away all at once
with protection. He thought it ought to be done gradually,
during the course of a few years, E 0 that at the end of four or
flee years they might leok fur a total repeal—but how was the
measure Linought before the people ? It was brought forward
as a measure fors free trade in corn, and it was discovered
that it was intended to impose a duty of Bs. a quarter en
wheat. This measure of free trade was in fact a tax on food.
—( Hear, hoar.) Now it was a fallacy to bring forward such
a measure as that as a measure of free trade in corn—cheap
lefead would never come from that quarter. It had no ten-
dent.), whatever to bring clown the price of bread. But even
his Noble Friend beside him ( Earl Spencer) agreed with
him ; for he said that not even the total repeal of the
Corn-laws would bring down the price of bread consi-
derably His Noble Friend had been misunderstood by
Noble Lords who had spoken since. They supposed his
Friend to have said that it would make no reduction. In
truth; what he did say was, that the reduction would be very
small. He himself ( Lord Brougham) had often said before
them that both agriculturists in their alarm, and the Anti-
monopolists in their sanguine hopes, greatly exaggerated the
efleets of reduction. He thought, however, that the total
repeal would effect a reduction of 5 or 7 or 10 per cent. in
the price of wheat consumed in this country. If such had
been the measure of the eGOverement they would have a
right to speak of giving the', people cheaper bread—not cheap
bread, in the sense in which the word *as used at the last
election; but cheaper bread than they had at present. He
entirely agreed with the Noble Lord opposite, that with the
measure as brought forward by the Government, there was
not the slightest chance of a reduction of the price of bread.
Still the measure would have been a grant—an incalculable
benefit to trade and manufactures, and if it would not give the
people cheaper bread ; it would give them increased employ-
ment and the means of purchasing more bread. On
the whole, he thought that the result of the
election was a verdict of the people not against the
repeal of The Corn-laws, nor against free trade, but against
the general policy of the Government., and it justified one ex-
pression of the amendment, not that the Government had lost
the confidence of the House, for, as his Noble Friend at the
the head of Government had very good-humouredly said, " the
expression ought to be they never had it."—( Laughter.) But
they had lost the confidence of the country.—(Cheers from the
Opposition.) His Noble Friends could not say that the voice
ot the country was net expressed in the last elections. If they
said that, they must come round to his view of the Reform
Bill, and admit that it did not. give a sufficient representation
of the people. Neither should it be said that those observa-
tions of his were formed upon the result of the elections, and
that he was wise after the fact; for, on the 21st of June last,
at that table, in the place which he then stood, he said that
the result of the elections could not be taken as any test of the
opinions or wishes of the people. He had stated already, that,
in a constitutional point of view, he protested against the
course of those who advised the Crown to the dis3olution.—
(Cheers. ) He thought that, after that dissolution and the re-
sults of the elections, it was the duty of his Noble Friends to
have no longer remained in office.—(Loud cheers.) He
only attributed to them an error of judgment, 'fur
they only subjected themselves to the imputation of cling-
ing to place when power had departed from them.—(Cheers.)
So it had been two years ago, his painful duty to animad-
vert upon their conduct in returning to office, after they had
lost the confidence of the other House, whereby they took
upon themselves responsibility without power : the power re-
siding in their Lordships, and in the majority of the other
House.—(Cheers.) He believed their remaining in office so
long under such circumstances was the main cause of their
losing the confidence of the,people.—( Cheers.) Their doing
so was doubtless an error of judgment, for, not to say his
Noble Friends, but no men in such circumstances could have felt
office other than a burthen —(Cheers and laughter.) The
course which they chose, led to this important result, that
they had the important duty of advising the Queen, on the
most important acts of the Crown during the Session—the
opening Speech.—(Cheers.) That Speech, however, was the
Speech of the Ministers—and in this he differed from his
Noble Friend opposite, who thought than the Speech ought not
to be opposed—ought not to be censured or disrespectfully
commented on ; for he believed the Speech from the Throne
to be in reality the Speech of the Ministers, and as such to
be dealt with with all the freedom with which any act of
servants of the Crown is to be dealt with.
the
e such a speech as was fitting to deliver to a Perim.-
core he always had held that it was a thing' to
It might
;on of the Address by either House of
went, and there:
be avoided—the rejees:
of the illieistry remaining IL:
Parlinerrent, Such was the .-esult.
ns had been known. With
office after thte result of the elect:2
the fate ot the Address
i knowledge of that retttlt by which
hich had yet to
might be as absolutely shown as any event :7
take place, they had prepared a epeeele which the; knew must
be rejected by both Houses of Parliarnents If, indeen, could
be said, as had been good-humouredly reniageed by his lete..')le
Friend, that until men took their seats in Parliatnetet, there
wee no knowing how they would vote; but, unhappily ‘s Mete
kelplastrianet," and they had from another Noble Lord, a Metre-
ber of the Government, that he had no measure of doubt that
there would be as avervhelming majority against them. It
appeared to him that his Noble Friends could have stated in
their places—have entered on the journals of the House their
opinions upon these matters--certainly in a much snore formal
einepe thee that in which they had chosen s put them.—
( Hans hear, hears) He did riot wish to allow
*he present opportunity to pass without saying a word upon
the elections. It was a painful subject, which was hardly ever
absent from his min el; the consideration of the unprecedented
in every form--( Hear, hear)—in
extent to which corruption
Led berm peactised all ever the
livery the most repulsive shape,
counfryen(Hear, hear)—bribery withote!t stint„ and he believed
to an extent ararelleled, influence and inifeehletion almost
unprecedented tnrbulence, threats, actual Treenenial
outrages, by imprisonment, ter Wounding, by murder, in soffit/ t
cases—these were the picturaf enesented to them,
not merely by the reports of eye-stitietsees, and in the
addresses of disappointed candidates ; ant merely
by persons who had privately, and with a view to flit ends of
justice and the furtherance ofsound legislation, made three peen
sentatioes, but actually in the records of their courts of justice
they had seen, not only the bribery and intimidation, and actual
violenee, amounting to invest hideous outrages, but they had seen
that these practices—and he stated the feet plainly—had been,
without any exception of party, common to both title great par-
ties who had contested these elections. He could state to
theie Lordships just as bad cases from one side as the others base
he would nut detain them at that late hour. Of this he was
certain, that unless Parliament interposed! unless inquired was
instituted—then both the great parties, who divided ehe House
and the country, must snake up their minds to share in the'
blame of protecting and screening by refusing to punish.
Their Lordships had great power, and if they instituted an in-
quiry into these malpractice!, with no Slew to punish or
unseat Members, but with a view to future
not only would their character rise high in the cotrOffy; but
the result, would be some useful and efficacious remedy foe
these enormous evils.—( Hear, hear,) One remedy was in
the hands of all and which, without legislation, every man could
have his share in. Bribery was much too lightly talked of, and
the red practice of paying to much a head was
too much practised, and by that perjury was encour-
end sownas it were, broadcast over the face
ageu ',sell, of the country. He begged to apologise
of the electoral es
'"q• The carrying of the amendment,
for detaining them so L.,
an doubt would make a
Of which no one could enterta y‘,
of the country. He
04190 of &rose in the Governmees *aunts which he
couldoilythat' fee did tot join in those.l. Friends
was rather snilenised to heat' tnrown out by his Nous- Gm
igai M. to the probable' dOttren to be held by there
;le hotel end &tinted they wield coold come over se hi
mI
(Lord f/fteentiern. y Her Wmthl net taunt then, but would be
succe,
first to hail their 4 bieets.) So far from feeling the
least disinclination, let them actor! these *feature§ in ilse
.
degree, and the smallest contribution efo*lst be thank
fully received. ( A laugh.) The target this ceeutree
d erT
but ion the greater the thankfulness. Insoveted
oonsidoring that that would be a triumph bitbay:
party, he would s ssvr "do it and welcome, and you
our best support,"—(Hear, heart )
The House then divided, when the numbers ware--
90
For the Address
168
For the Amendment
Majority ..............• o'clock, till Fri-
Their Lordships then adjourned, at Two

The House re-assembled at 20 mnutea• to four
o'clock, when the swearing in of Member, was sesta. lied..
Among them were Sir Matthew Wood, Air. Leader, , Sir-
Benjamin Hall, Mr. Wakley, Mr. Somers kc.
The SPEAKER said he had to inform tie House- ..tha
• it had been reported to him by the Clerk, fiat, since .ths,
last Session, the Clandestine outlawry Act .iad expil vct.
Sir G. GREY moved that a 'Bill to renew the Act be
read a first time.—Agreed to.
• On the motion of the Hon. BARONET, the usual Set te.
sional Orders were read and agreed to
NOTICES OF MOTION.
Sir E. SUGDEN gave notice that on the 2d of Sep-
tember he would move for leave to bring in a Bill to pro-
vide for the better administration of justice in the Appel-
late Jurisdiction of the House of Lords ; and on a future
day he would move for the appointment of a Committee
to inquire into the expediency of suspending the laws re-
lating to usury.
Sir F. BLAKE gave notice that on Monday next be
would move for leave to bring in a Bill to exempt Meat-
hers of Parliament from the necessity of taking the crabs
of supremacy and abjuration as a qualification fur taking.
their seats.
Mr. WALLACE gave notice that on Monday next.
he would move that the usage of the late Parliament
shall not be followed so far as related to Members pre-
senting petitions. He wished tL at Members might be
at liberty to state in the fullest manner the prayer of the
petitions of the people, and that they should not be
gagged as they were during the last Session.
Mr. F. FRENCH gave notice that on 'Tuesday next
he would move for the appointment of a Committee to
consider the system of Irish Railways.
Mr. EWART gave notice of his intention to renew
his motion for diminishing the number of Members at-
tending Committees on Private Bills, and that they
should not be locally or in any other way conne,eted with
the matter under consideration.
Mr. BROTHERTON gave notice that on :Monday
next he would move that no new business be enter ed intO
after twelve o'clock.—(Laughter.)
CASE OF MR. M'LEOD.
Mr. ROEBUCK, although he did not see the pre-
sent Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs in his
place, wished to give notice that to-morrow he
should put a question to him with respect to
s coosyohme
tpry,relationsesla:t,s(ain.te
eceimserltdai existingorkiti b
hs
:wheoacues
letdhweo•ofpbe
hoped
AmericateQhlleei a y
unintelligible
Inedt
andi,dv inas-
muchthat
iitntbhauel.
gence of the .House, he would be permitted to make
(Hear, hear.)
HER h:AJESTY'S SPEECH.
The SPEAKER sa,i he had to acquaint the House
that that House had been to the Ilouse of Peers,
to which it had been summoned by the • Lords
Commissioners and the Lord Chancellor. One
of
the great Commissioners had made a speech to both
Houses of Parliament, of which, to prevent mistake, he
had procured a copy. The Right Hon. Gentleman then
read her Majesty's speech as follows x---
" _MY LORDS AND GENTLEMEN,
to ac q uaint
" We are commanded by her Majesty
you that her Majesty has availed herself of the earliest
opportunity of resorting to your advice and assistance
after the dissolution of the last Parliament.
" Her Majesty continues to receive from .Foreign
Powers gratifying assurances of their..desire to m.sintain
with her Majesty the most friendly relations.
" Her Majesty has the satisfaction of informing' )"?u
that the objects for which the Treaty of the 15th of din Y 9
Ifi4o, was concluded between her Majesty,. the Emp.re.r
of Austria, the King of Prussia. the Emperor of Russisk•
and the Sultan, have been fully accomplished, and it is
gratifying to her Majesty to he enabled to state, that
the temporary separation which the measures taken in
the execution of the Treaty created between the coil-
tracting parties and France, has now ceased.
Her Majesty trusts that the union of the principal
_Powers uppti gill-, matters affecting the great interests of
Europe will affOrd a firm security for the maiatenancu :of
peace.
" Her Majesty is glad to be able to inform you
that, in consequence of the evacuation of Ghorian by
the Persian troops, her Majesty has ordered her Minister
to the Court of _Persia to return to Teheran.
Gov
" Her Majesty regrets that the negotiations betae•er
?
her Plenipotentiaries in China and the Chinese
co
smi
oehn,t havead
tnhoatty
ite h
t beaesn
beenbrought
he
e et
sos
aar
): satisfactory
c
the forces which her Majesty has sent to the China seas;
but her Majesty still trusts that the Emperor of China;•
will see the justice of the demaods which her Majesty s
Plenipotentiaries have been instructed,to make.
l l into
anctcill
" Her Majesty is' happy to inforre you that the dif-
ferences which had arisen between Spin and Portugal,
about the execution of a Treaty concluded by those
Powers in 1835, for regulating the navig.ation of the
Douro have been adjusted.amicably, and with honourW
both parties, by the aid of her Majesty's medittion •
er
" The debt incurred by the Legislature of riy
Canada, for the purposes of Public Works, is a serlOu_s
obstacle to further improvements which are essential ,°).
the prosperity of the United Xrovince. Her Majesty lob
authorized the Governor-Geperal to make a communicae_•
Lion on the subject to thO 'Council and Assemby ol
Canada. Her Majesty will direct the Papers to be laid
before you, and trusts that your, earnest attention will be
directed to matters so rwtterially affecting the welfare of
Canada and the strength of the Empire.
" GENTLEMEN OF THE, ;,HOUSE or Comatows,-
" We have to assure you that her Majesty relies
with entire confidence on your,loyalty.and zeal to make
adequate provision for the pub4Rservice, as well Its f 0
the further application of sumagranted by the last Par-
liament.

" MY LORDS AND GENTLEMEN,
" We are more especially commanded to declare to
you that the extraordinary expenses which the events in
Canada, China, and the Mediterranean have occasioned,
and the necessity of maintaining a force adequate to the
protection of our extensive possessions, have made it
necessary to consider the means of increasing the public
revenue. Her Majesty is anxious that this object should
be effected in the manner least burthensome to her
people, and it has appeared to her Majesty, after full de-
liberation, that you may at this juncture properly direct
your attention to the revision of duties:affecting the pro-
ductions of foreign countries. It will.be for you to con-
sider whether some of these duties are not so trifling in
amount as to be unproductive to the revenue, while they
are vexatious to commerce. You maYltirther ex-amine
whether the principle of protection, upon which others
of these duties are founded, be not carried to an extent
injurious alike to the income of the State, and the in-
terests of the people.
" Her Majesty is desirous that you should consider
the laws which regulate the trade in Corn. It will be
for you to determine whether these laws do not aggra-
vate the natural fluctuations of Supply, whether they do
not embarrass Trade. derange the Currency, and, by
;heir operation, diminish the comfort and-increase the.
0i1y,.,
of the great body of the community
~ he: Majesty feeling the deepest sympathy with
those of her subjects, who are now suffering from dis-
tress and want of employment, it is her earnest prayer
that all your delibers..'ions may be guided by wisdom, and
may conduce to the han;iness of her beloved people."
TILE ADDRESS.
The SPEAKER having finisied reading her-Majesty's
Spemh at five o'clock,
Ml', MARK PHILLIPS rose tG move that the
House do present an Address to her illajesty, in re:.
ply to the Speech which he had just read, and.
which had been that morning delivered to ,the :Is,-
sembled parliament by her Majesty's on
tb
Commissier.%
and in proposing the Address he should, 'n
first instance, propose that they should thank
her Majesty for her gracious Speech, , and
further, that they should express their (A-
tiscaction that her Majesty-. had availed herself of the
earliest opportunity of resorting to their advice
and assembling the present Parliament at the earliest
possible period after the dissolution of the lateFr.rliamentin,
and he thought the whole House would agree wits
him
opinion that after the sudden dissolution .of th
late Parliament, engaged as it was in the
con-
e
sideration of the most important topics, it. Was
highly expediee that they should, with the le.lat
possible delay, resume the consideration of those toplo.',
more especially when they considered the crisis ifrl
which the revenue of the country was placed. He woul 1
further propose that they.should assure her Majesty_7_
that they rejoiced to learn tha gratifyingy confirm
ese:_
to receive from Foreign rowers assurancesthe.
t&lv desire to maintain with her Majesty
with
mclit friendly relations, and that they learn which
Much gratification that the objectswa:
completed
the treaty of till 15th of July, 1840,
of Russia,
the King of Prussia, the Emper,c:bred,
between her Majesty: and the Emperor
and that
and the Sultan had th.7eD fully acco!npli
a expressed by
they shared in the ,gratificatio
to
state that
enabled of Austria,
her Majesty in being h the measures taken in
the temporary separation, whic
ad
L. created between the
the execution a that treaty .
contracting parties and echoFra,n,,
had now ceased. Ho
House trusted, with
nroposed also to state D
t•han of the prilcipal Powers,
her Majesty, that the union
the interests of Europe,
upon aLI matters
firmaffseeceurity for the main romance of
a ~e might be permitted to erpress his
would effort:
peace ; and, if ye might that part of her _X ajesty's
own feelings
otriev, siaz,useth, that,
the 1
vpresen
wive
, holdirg the p lsition
which he did in
Speech, he .c
of the largest . manufacturieg
coencloo more highly, co lud-
o( one !ct othnalyt
perhaps, tt'an 1,n):
. in the empire, he was in "dined to
iPocSicveidual. because he was aware tl.'st ti. '''
Jpterruption to the peace of the
other
~.:iue
,e, districtsdis-
crested in thk the most intense work I
was poductive of the greatest e vile,
Fop or Ote pAiniet,,:lice of peace, therefore, . 34,
stliiegslslitestio
only dOi il elil4sfian duty a a Christian country, but;
he cormiddiVit that it Wee impossible to overrate th 6
blessings of peat 4 even in a temporary point of view. •
It was with great satisfaction, therefore, that
he had heard in the Speeeli that the temporary disrup-
tion which had been occasioned by the treaty of Suly,
1840, in the friendly relat;ons between this-country and
France had ceased. He had always considered France
as the natural ally of this country, and had always looked
with the most intense anxiety to any fhing calculated to
vf V 0 VS, '--- ..-I^4lk '
HOUSE (j- i t'-:c --- - ,‘,... '' I interrupt the good feeliug. subsisting between the two
The SPEAKER took the Chair tp-dny at 1. , --buntries. He (Mr. Phillips) had it:
when
the swearing in of Ateinbers was pr seeded wltn , • ' France as the bulwarks a general liberty, and
till shortly after two o'clock, when the house '
louse ryas sum• land at t to
ways regarded Eng -
.', tended even file a moment
moned by the Usher of the Black Rod to the House of ; anything whi.,... —.its, had been 0 him a
Peers, to hear her Majesty's Speech. km With re-
4----ong the Mem- se orate their lute..- -,ve regret.
re-
bers sworn in we noticed Lord F. Egerton, the
Mr. Cholmondeley, Lord James Stuart,Mr, C. Bruce, of the NOTE`` and to , au
d
Bone , sir J. Yarde ferersB go the existed between this and
occur
r, Mr, Tollemache, Sir J, Walsh, Mr lir , t '.' ' wad,.
hat nothing would
Sir E. Kerrison Mr, Shepl:_ierd, Col 1 , !T►arul ir on, latiqp. .. ,
a pwattcr of the most 5u,....
d antarres of peace
Barrington* Sir ii. Lopez, Mr. Ward gile 41,P general amity. The a v
°articular in-
Mr. Rowle,nd Hill, Mr. Uodson Prufm, . Lord otT sospntros., he
~. , Sir G. &pick', -tr.d, \to Airbi--- tea in reference to that
.p
self the re-
c. I,3rooke here, h M r ,• • _, Mr. Wynn Ellis, Sir Icc ,a not be overra
road to consider hula
~,
ater fiatii-
,eroeant .e, the a cli:ls of Douro, Lord Ahl'y 1 to of which he was pi.
trusted t
s be a matter of 1;1.
~ Jackson, Mr- 13:11,ey. Alderman .' ,'.' • . , ~, .t, tive It, woula A wO:Y` ut of a new beb It":
,'...-.lr. E. Sug,lcu, Lord (..:„-.!,_; , , . , Thon-,R,;0 1, TT*.il. 1 -.' • c he evuinienceme
At 20 minutes after Two O'6lo'' it°. I :‘ll% Scarii-Lt. fat:twit to hunt, at t ations at the
to, Half-past Three ("Clock. o'clock the ti.!:l-I?use adjouri4 d °-31. •
r Tiainent, instead • _.
ael
.. _
b. 2
of matters 9i thic?F! .. , Ille
.",
, fril termination , .
of coneratul
~. ,
eecusucciersosux

day ~._—..

.....ling.---.. ..m. 23.