The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-20 00:00:00

•
guardians of the Killarney Union, prayin ' fora gene•
ral system of taxation.

Y.........:.~

CRACOW.
Mr. HUME postponed, till Thursday next, the motion
regarding the suppression of the republic ' of CraeCt",
which he had un the paper last night.
THE EC CLESIACTICAL C 0 M3LIS "MON.
Lord RUSSELL intimated that on v A early day
he wound bring in a Bill to alter the constitution of
the Ec mlesiastical Commission. Before he cad. so he would
be abl a to stale the precise words in which he would intro-
duce the subject. He made this statemen at on account
of a 'notice which appeared on the paper.
WEST HIGHLANDS.
Mr.. ELLICE said he would, on Mon:day next, call
the attention of the House to the state of the West
Highlands of Scotland, and the steps which had been
taken to relieve tire distress.
msg. CORPORATION BILL.
Major LAYARI) begged to ask the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman the Secretary for Ireland, if it Wag the intention
of her lkia.i,esty's Government to bring forward the Irish
Corporation Bill during this session of Parliament?
Mr. LABOUCHERE said the subject had been under
t'ae consideration of the Government, awl they had pre-
r aired two Bills, which they would introduce at such a
period of the session as would give the House ample op-
portunity to glee it their consideration.
CONVICT COLONY AT BERBICE.
Mr. GRANTLEY BERKELEY read a statement
from a. colonial newspaper, to the effect that the Rev. Mr.
Kelly, Roman Catholic priest, sent out by the Govern-
ment to officiate to the convicts of that persuasion, had
lit ten refused the liberty of officiating without the sanction
of the Rev. Mr. Bell, prison chaplain in the colony, and
that that rev. gentleman had refused his sanction. The
consequence had been that the Roman Catholics had
been without religious instruction. The Hon. Member
wished to know whether this conduct had the sanction
of the Government.
Mr. HAWES said the Government had had no report
on the subject, nor information, further than that which
the Hon. Gentleman himself possessed; but he had no
hesitation in saying that the Government would take
steps to ascertain the truth of the report.
CORONERS' INQUESTS.
Mr. BARCLAY begged to ask the Right Hon. the
Secretary of State for the Home Department whether it
was intended to do anything to remedy the state of co-
roners' inquests ?
Sir G. GREY said that an inquiry was to be made
with a view to a remedy.
IMPORTATION OF FLAX SEED INTO
IRELAND.
Mr. FOSTER wished to ask the Right Hon. Gentle-
men the Secretary tor Ireland a question with respect to
the: introduction of flax seed into Ireland. He had
be en informed by a gentleman connected with Ireland
that Government had lately been importing flax seed
into Ireland, and he had yesterday received a letter
f coal a firm at Limerick, stating that suet' was
the fact ; and as they felt that it would be perfectly
useless to attempt to compete with Government,
they wished him to ascertain that fact, and he (Mr.
Foe ter) wished, therefore, to learn whether it was or
was not true that the Government had imported flax
seed into Irela d?
Mr. LABOUCHERE said it was true that with a
view to improve a part of the country in which the flax
had been much impoverish the Government had im-
ported a small quantity of ex:ellent seed into the neigh•
bourhood of Limerick. If the Government were rightly
haler med the whole of the seed hitherto used in that part of
elle country was American. With a view to amend the
quality of the seed they had introduced a small quantity,
not more than 6001bs. at the utmost But he might dis-
tinctly say that it was not the intention of the Govern-
ment to introduce any more, for it was their impression,
and he wished it to go forth expressly to the public that
they held it unwise to interfere with private commercial
enterprise by the competition of Government.—(Hear,
hear.) The Hon. Gentleman might therefore rely upon
it that they would introduce no more flax seed into Ire-
land.
STEAM COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE
WEST' INDIES AND AFRICA.
Mr. BARCLAY wished to ask whether it was true
that a steam-vessel had been put on by Government, to
establish a communication between the West Indian
colonies and the coast of Africa?
Mr. B. HAWES said that it was quite true that a
steam-vessel, expressly put on by Government
with officers under their authority, was en-
gaged to communicate between the West Indian
colonies and that part of the coast of Africa
where neither slavery nor slave trading existed.
He must, however, state distinctly that the measure was
an experimental one. It would be immediately under
the superintendence of the Government, but it would
not extend beyond the period of one year. If there were
found natives of the country who were willing to emigrate
to the West Indies, they would be conveyed thither free
of expense.
Mr. BARCLAY wished to know what was the name
of the vessel?
Mr. HAWES replied, the' Scourge."
RAILWAY CLAUSES CONSOLIDATION ACT.
Mr. FERRAND wished to ask the Right Honourable
Gentleman the Attorney-General whether the Railway
Clauses Consolidetion Act provided any, and what, pro-
tection for the property of tetrints in tale?
The ATI ORNEY-GENERAL replied, that the Act
was so much inv.lved in doubt, that it would not b,
prudent for him to answer the question of the Hon,
Gentleman.

TEN HOURS' FACTORY BILL.
Mr. BRIGHT desired to know whether the Noble
Lord had any objection to lay upon the table of the
House a memorial, signed by between three and four
hundred factory proprietors in Lancashire, em-
ploying one hundred and twenty thousand hands.
The subject of the memorial had reference to the
Factory Bill. He wished that it should be in the pos-
session of the Members of the House before the ques-
tion came on again for further consideration.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that he would lay it upon the
table on Monday next.
RAILWAYS FOR IRELAND.
Mr. COLLETT would wish to put a question to her
Majesty's Government as to whether it was their inten-
tion to give any assistance to those railway companies
from whom baronial presentments had been made.
There had been a presentment made in the barony of
Cremoyne, in the north of Ireland, for the assistance of
a local railway, and the directors were most willing to
take the support of the able-bodied labourers from the
relief committee.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that there had been a
general rule to give assistance to those companies en-
gaged in making the earth works, and if any peculiar
case arose it would be competent for the directors to
memorialise the Government.
SESSIONAL ORDERS.
Mr. HUME begged to ask a question of the
Speaker as to the rules of the House. By a rule of the
House the Speaker was bound to leave the chair at six
o'clock on Wednesdays, and no Member was permitted to
speak. Now, he understood that after that hour
the division of the House was declared.—(Hear, hear.)
The question was, could the report of the division be
received after six o'clock? If they deviated five minute:
they might as well deviate fifty minutes.
The SPEAKER said, the Member was right in
stating that the House must be adjourned at six o'clock
without putting the question. But this must take place
when there was not a division, and the doors were
unlocked. In the present instance there was a division,
and the doors were locked at six o'clock. He could not
therefore in pursuance of the standing order, adjourn
the House till after the division, and when the doors
were opened.—(Cheers.)
MEASURES FOR IRELAND—THE BUDGET.
Sir A. BROOKE wished to know the intentions of
the Government as to the course they intended to take
respecting the measures proposed for Ireland.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, the Honourable Gen-
tleman wished for the information of the Irish Members
to know the course the Government intended to
take. What they proposed to do was to go into Com-
mittee on the Labouring Poor (Ireland) Bill to-night.
This was a Bill to sanction the proceedings which had
taken place under the direction of the Lord-Lieutenant.
With regard to the other Irish Bills, he did not think of
going into Committee at present, as there were several
amendments proposed to be made in them. On
Monday next he proposed that either himself or the
Chancellor of the Exchequer would make the financial
statement, after which he would propose the second
reading of the Railway Bill. He did not
think they would go on with any Irish measures
that night; on next Friday, he would propose going into
a Committee of Supply for the voting of the naval
estimates; and on Monday fortnight he would bring
under the consideration of the House the Irish Bill,
now postponed, namely, the Bills for the Irnprov, men:
of Irish Estates, aed for the Relief of the Poor.
The Earl of LINCOLN wished to know what were
the nature of the amendments ?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said they were mainly of 1
technical cha: acter. He had no objection to3tbe Bills being
committed pro forma now, and recommitted on Monda,
Fortnight.

House that his (Mr. BaiHie's) name was not a
Scotch name. He could tell the Noble Lord 'that his
(Mr. Baillie's) ancestors were resident in Scotland
before (as we understood the Honourable Member) the
Noble Lord's ancestors had an acre there.—(Laraghter.)
He (Mr. Baillie) was ready to give his support
° all the measures her Majesty's Governmen-
-gh'' ' bring forwerd
benefit of Ire an that wouln his
hear)opinion be calcut
'ni, the
. i— (Hear,
lated
.rat .
b. "lOWNE said, that however indisposed he was
Mr
to detain the attleetion of the House from the several miseries
i
which this Bill was se
e • tended to relieve, he yet could not avoid
calling its notice to the ;riehtful catalogue of evils which were
b
daily recurring in his county. The Hon. and Learned
Member for Cork had a fortnight NY'z' stated, unless the relief
were granted that two millions or people would lose their
re. s
every
lives in Ireland. He had himself re, ad,
in the Freeman's
Journal, a statement that upwards of 50 persons died
day. To this he might add the statement which appeared in
that journal on the llth instant, in which iL was said that no
less than 671 coffins had been carried to the grave
in one union within a month. To Wis the Ho-
nourable Gentleman added a number of instalacbs of fright-
ful suffering which were recorded in the same paper.
In Sligo, also, the people were dying of starvatie'°, and one
revolting case of misery which had recently occu'r'red had
come to his knowledge. A man named Malrowny pu,-chased
an ass for a few shillings. He lived for a short time upon a
portion of its carcass, and he died from the effects of the un-
wholesome and disgusting food. The Hon. Member read a
series of other cases, but in so low a tone as to be inaudible ira
the gallery. He did not wish to detain the House, but he felt
that the time had arrived when no Irish Member could be
silent, and when they should demand Parliament to stretch
forth a more helping hand than had hitherto been extended to
Ireland. He asked what was the use of legislating for a people
if they were desolated by hunger and disease? He entreated
the attention of the House to Ireland, and earnestly begged
that they would take immediate means for relieving the people-
of Ireland.
es
Mr. LEFROY said, as the Noble Lord had stated that the
Irish measures would be postponed for a certain period, he
thought it proper to avail himself of that opportunity to lay
the dreadful condition of that country before the House. For
it appeared to him most important that if Irish Alernl,ers were
to remrin here, away tiorn the sphere in their own country
where they night, minister with sevantage to the comfort and
relief of their countrymen, it was their duty in that House to
state, not only for her Majesty's Ministers but for the informa-
tion of the British public, that there was no exaggeration in
the statements made as to the distress which prevailed in that
country. In making the statements which he wag about to
make, he would not cast the slightest reproach on her Ma-
jesty's Ministers, for he believed that to the extent of their
power they had ministered to the relief of that country as far
as they could see their way. But in the circumstances it was
their duty to lay the condition of that country before them. He
said he would read to the House some extracts from a letter which
he had received within the last two days respecting a county in
Ireland. he meant Roscommon. It stated that they were in
a melancholy condition in that county, and that on Sunday a
clergyman's horse bad died for want of sustenance, and the
poor people insisted on cutting him up, and carrying away the
carcase for food. In many parts of Roscommon great exer-
tions had been made by the resident landed proprietors to assist
the population in the existing distress, but all they could do
went but a little way. What then must be the state of those dis-
tricts in which the same attention was not bestowed ? He
anxiously implored theGovernmetet to reconsider whether it was
not possib!e to introduee a more comprehensive scheme, than
any they had yet proposed, to avert the misery and distress
which existed in Ireland to a greater extent than
they had ever More existed in any civilised country.
respect to those temporary treasures that had been in-
troduced, no relief had been received from them. With re-
gard to the future, ruin would necessarily ensue to thousands
if they were taken from labour on the public works. He
regretted that her Majesty's Government had acted as they
had done in not allowing some portion of the grant to be
applied to the purchase (4 seed, and he trusted they would
re.consider the question.—( The Hon. Member here read an
extrac., from a letter corroborating his views.) Attention to this
question was indispensable to the preservation and restoration of
Ireland. He must deny the imputation that had been cast
upon that vilified class, the landlords of Ireland. that they
were intent only upon putting money into their pockets. There
were many cases where landlords had not received a farthing of
their rents. He felt bound to avail himself of that opportunity
to lay before the House the views which he thought would be-
nefit Ireland.

Sir B. HALL. rose with several other Members, but they
ultimately gave way, and the Hon. Baronet said that he had
not intended to take any farther part in this discussion • but as
he bad an opportunity of saying a few words, he would wish to
state that he did not retract one single word of what he had
uttered the other night, because the assertions he then
made had been made from the substance of what was
an authentic report, and he believed that that report was true.
He had said that it was a strange thing that irish Members
should come down to the House praying for relief for the dis-
tress in Ireland, and stating that if their rents were paid they
would willingly have provided for the poor in that country, and
if any English Members got up to express an opinion on this
subject, they were told either that they did not feel for the dis-
tress, or they did not understand the circumstances of the
eountry. Now, he did say that it was a great anomaly for
gentlemen to come there from the neighbourhood of Dublin,
and make long speeches, while they made no effort to relieve
the distress themselves. The Hon. Member for Mayo had
spoken to the extent of the distress, and had very vividly de-
scrided the terrible sufferings in his country, and yet he was
connected with a body of men who collected large rents, and
spent large sums in Conciliation Hall. It was true that he
knew nothing about it—(Hear)—but he would just refer to
the report for the money that was expended in March last.
In March the amount was 92.51.; in April 930/.; in May 5661.;
June 7061.; in July 745/.; in August 1,1321.; in Sept. 4911.;
in Oct. 3471.; in Nev., when the papers were teeming with
the horrors of Skibbereen. the amount was 6021. Now, why
was not some of this money applied to the relief of the suffering
people of Ireland ? Why did not Members of that House who
had influence with the association endeavour to induce the
association to render its assistance in the mitigating the distress,
and not come to that House complaining that Ireland was
being neglected by England, while in point of fact the people
of this country were doing all in their power by way of sub-
scriptions and otherwise, to relieve the distress.

Colonel VERNER agreed with the Hon. Baronet in what
he stated, with respect to the money for the repeal rent, which
had been collected from a starving people, but he regretted to
add, that it was not a voluntary, but a compulsory payment.
There was another subject, however, to which he wished to call
the attention of the House, because he believed it to be of the
greatest importance in considering the Bills before the House,
namely, the sub-letting of land, or, more properly speaking,
the cutting it up into shreds and patches. That subject was
very little known, he believed, either to that House or to the
people of England. It was an evil of the greatest magnitude,
but he did not think that the present landlords should be
blamed for what should be set down to the account of their
predecessors. As an instance of the evil, he would just call
the attention of the House to his own parish, and he took
this case first, because he was more intimately acquainted with
it than any other part of the country; and secondly, because it
belonged to the heart of what was called the favourite part of
Ireland—the province of Ulster. In that parish, two-thirds
of which was in the county Tyrone, and the remaining part
in the county Armagh, when the calamity, which at present
prevailed over the country, commenced, a relief committee was
established, and meal was distributed once a week, and soup
twice. There were at present four hundred and thirty fa-
milies seeking relief from that committee, and of these
thirty-five only possessed as much as an acre of land; so that
395 families, or (allowing five persons to the family) nearly
2,000 individuals had no late! whatever. Of the remaining
thirty-five families, consisting of 166 persons the amount of
the land in their possession was just eight acres and a few
perches. Four of these families occupied seven acres, and the
remaining portion of the land was divided among the other
thirty-one families. That would give the House some idea of
the state of things which existed in what was called
the favoured part of Ireland, and would show what
would be the effect of giving out-door relief. He
asserted that if this measure of out-deor relief were granted it
would convert all Ireland into a poor-house, and absorb the
whole property of the country. He should like to know from.
Honourable Member for Bath what he had to say to the pic-
ture which he had just drawn? One thing he thought must
be very clear, that the cottier system was the greatest curse
under which Ireland laboured. A few days ago he received a
letter from the rector of aft adjoining parish to that which he
had just referred to. He was a brother of a Noble Lord who
was a Member of that House, the Rev. Francis Clements.
( The Gallant Colonel read the letter which described the ex-
istence of the distress in that locality to be beyond conception,
and that notwithstanding all the exertions of the poor linen-
weavers they were enable to procure sustenance, owing to the
high price of provisions.) When he (Colonel Verner, last ad-
dressed the House, he took the liberty of saying a few words on
behalf of the Irish landlords, and he repeated
that they did their duty and exerted themselves to the
best of their means, and ten times more than their
means would permit them, but what could they do to re-
lieve such an overwhelming amount of destitution as that which
prevailed in Ireland? He asserted that the wealth of this
country, to which Ireland had been so long united, ought to
be extended to mitigate the evils of the emergency. For his
own part, he rejoiced to see the unanimity which prevailed on
both sides of the House to relieve the destitution, and he was
ready to support any measures for that object, no matter from
what political party they proceeded.
Mr. L A BOUCHERE said that some Hon. Gentleman had
expressed an opinion that the House was not aware of the ex-
tent of the misery which prevailed in Ireland. For his own
part he never concealed his opinions respecting it, and invaria-
bly said that it was scarcely possible to overstate the amount
of suffering that existed in some parts of that country.
It was most painful to him to receive the intelligence which
every post brought him, and he could not convey to the
House the feelings with which such accounts impressed him.
If the statements were put forward with a view to induce Go-
vernment to exert themselves the mare, he could assure those
who made them that it was not because the Government were
in ignorance of them, or were disinclined to relieve them, bat
because of the limited powers at their command. which
adequately
pre-
vented them from giving that aid which would
on an enormous scale, and there .
meet the calamity. They had,neverwtehreelegsa,t
receiving relte amnomeirtnt,
600.000 persons employed,
enormous effort and
f m
har
odame t the Go-
That was an
verument money.
ver much the
could not be made
without taxi
when
e r tit
calamity. satisfied,
He was
and every sacrifice submitted
then, that if they had not been to, to avert so tremendous a
'nevertheless
able to prevent all those scenes of suffering, and destitution, and
death, the sight of which pained them so much,
they were able to mitigate much of the misery by the measure
which was passed at the close of the last session of Parliament.
This measure was the principal, but not the only one by which
they had been able to extend relief. Soup kitchens had been
established under the direction of relief committees, who also
were enabled, by grants from Government, to effect a great deal
of good, by administering assistance to the most destitute. But
the efforts of any Government to relieve such an extensive
calamity, must be very limited. The true cause of the
distress, as had been observed, le as the high price of provisions.
Was it in Ireland alone that the rate of provisions was high?
Let them look at France—in industrious Frauce they were
exceedingly high—and it is absolutely impossible by the ef-
forts of the Government to keep the rate of provisions low in
Ireland while it is high in the other European states, from
whence we are accustomed to draw our supplies. As well
might they attempt to keep the level of the Irish Channel
higher than that of the Atlantic Ocean. It was impossible in
such a country as Ireland—so poor, and circumstanced as she
was in respect of her social condition—to prevent the existence
of the greatest distress. The lion. Gentleman who intro-
duced the subject to the House, 'the Member for Mayo (Mr.
Dillon Browne) called the particular attention of the
House to the destitute state of the county which
he represented, namely the: county of Mayo. He was quite
willing
to admit that at all times that county had suffered more
than any other in Ireland. It was also true that many of the
deaths which had occurred from starvation, a very great num-
ber of them had occurred in the county of Mayo. The persons
who had, for the most part, perished from starvation, belonged
to the class of mendicants, which at all times are a very numer-
ous bony, and maintain a very precarious condition. But
during the present calamity they had no means whatever of
st
accustomed to obtain charity
procuring a subsistence, the doors were closed in
every place against them, although heretofore they were
from the very poore