The Sun.
London, England, 1815-06-10 00:00:00

ORDNANCE ESTIMATES

On the motion of Air. It. W rrin,•thelush
twice Estimates were referred to a Committee of
Supply..
• The following Resolutions were then moved
Ond agreed to :

For the erection of an Asylum fratbour in the
Me.; of Dublin .... L. .L. 5,000 0 0
Off.rei. 1,200 0

For the Chairman of the Board of Inland, Na-
vigation-
For Treasury Incidents
To the Trustees of the British Museum

800 0 0
1,500 0 0
148 4 10

MT. WARD then said, .that the whole of the
Ordnance Estimates for Great Britain and Ireland
were 4;000,0431. _This would fall short of the.
Etit imates of last year by 785,0001. The Emimate-
of the Ordnances of last year were 1,470,0001.
Those o! this year were 141 ,0001. less. The Extra-
ordinaries of this year were 492,0001. more than
those of last year. But then the War Estimates of
this year were 512,0001. less than those of last year.
Then there w.as a diminution in the construction
of works of 700,000 i. There was also
,a dimi-
nution in, the Office of the Master-General of
97,9001. On the whole, the Ordnance Estimat-A

For were
rra
Nlaki.g a futal of

Z. 3,4.59,000
541,000
4,000;043

Mr. BENNETT made some observations, which
were not distitictly heard in the Gallery; but
from the answers given to them, we could,
collect that they were directed to the expellee of
the martello towers, and other fortifications, and
to the new publications of the Maps of the diffe-
rent cofinties of the kingdom.
Mr. WARD said, that it would be very impru-
dent at present to abandon these fortifications.
Clought it rather unfair, to attack, under the
screen of Parliatrientary situation, the character
of the Inspector-General of the Fortifications, an
()dicer o had served hi., country for a length of
years; a,id served it Most *meritoriously., Mete
Mr. lieuniztt said across the table, be did nut
'new' any thing personally disrespectful to that
Officer ; he only said there was great and useless
ex Finite in the construction of those works, and
would wish to know who was at the head of ,the
Boma! of Factitications) Mr. Yard said, that
it anyMember.would make a motion accusing the
Inspector of the Fortifications of incompetency,
be was prepared to meet it. As_tO the non-:publi-
cation of the' maps,' it would not be prudent to
• put the enemy in possession*of..all the situations
of,t he country. •••
Mr. Wu 11-11 F. AD said, that it was competent
for ally :Aiember of thartiouce to charge•any
6t:Jitlenean, even the Hon.-Gentleman (Mr.
Ward) himself; with inadequacy to discharge the
duties of his situatioll. Lie even thought that
there might be a more adequare person than the
Gentleman fountt for the situation. The
Don. Gentlenuth had said, that Buonaparte was
the greatesx Captain i)f the age. 11,6 (Mr. Wkit-
htead) did..1“.)1 exliect, to hear sucn observa7
lion Wont the" Genoleman's side Of the
!louse ; hr rather thought h would he our own.
great Captain, the Dukeui Wellington, they
sv,:nid choose as the gi'eatest Commander of the
day. As to the c.tution of not vultiilg_the enemy
in pus,, ~ion of the knowledge all the sitna-
ti.us of the Country, it Was a vairt caution, as the
e t.•!uy was already in possession Vf that know-

ledge, for it was unties. the direction of a foreigner
the late general survey had been nude,
Mr. R. %Vasa) tins hot surprised tts heal. the
Hon. Menthe!' (Mr, Whitbread); employ his usual
weapon of person:d attack, hi the use (IF which
he, no doilbt; thouglat he had given wally proofs,
of shining prowess. To those attacks, however,
lie (Mr. it. Ward) must declare himself perfectly
inditferenth whether supgested to the Hon. Mem-
ber by the want of public grotto's ; the imbecility
of his reasoning, or the constitutional rashness
of his character and temperaMent. Tbrii Hon.
Member had dealt his -blows with indiscrimi-
nate proluslon,fipod all who caMe id his way
dining the *hole course of this Seslion j.,lnat in
every contest he found nothing but defeat. So
it was its the case of the Noble Lord (Castle-
reagh), whom the Honourable Member attacked
in his absence, and without just grounds or le;-
gitimate argument. The Hon. Member strut-
ted round the pit like a game cock its the
absence of his antagonist ; but when the eontiitt.
fairly came on, he retreated with nothing but dis 7
conattre. So weak was the. Hop. Member's op,
position, that he (Mr. It. Ward) considered him
one of the most efficient supporters of the Admi-
nistration.—(fit laugh.)--The Hon. Member fixes
upon some insulated point, of no importance to
the general question. So it was now. The Hon.
Gentleman, forgetting the Whole coast of Eng-
land, of Scotland, and of Ireland,- perched himself
exclusively upon Bedfordshire. He would, if it
was any satisfaction to the lion. Member, give
him the Survey of- his beloved..Bedfordshire.—(A
langh).—The Hon. Member concluded with ob-
serving, that no new work was contained in the
estimates ; and that this estimate tell short of that
of last year by 14,0001.
Mr. .WHITBREAD" said, the lion. Memter bad
made a personal attack upon him, of x‘hich he
certainly had less right than .any Other Member
to
.complain. There was something contradictory
in what the Hon. Member thought proper to im-
pute to him (Mr. W.) ; first, that he aimed his
blows at particular persons, which blows, in the
ne-:,t breath, the Hon. Member called random
shots. But not sAitisfied with this, the Hon. Gen-
tleman first complains of the force of those at-
tacks, and at the same moment called him the
best friend of the Athuinistiation, from the weak-
ness of his opposition.
. Mr. WARD repeated, that it was a sufficient
justification of his conduct and
.cotnpeteney,.if
he had taken and acted upon time opinion of per-
sons of professional skill upon matters strictly
military.
Mr. WHITBREAD disclaimed charging the Hon.
Gentleman with ignorance of his duty. Ile
merely wished to'repel the assertion, that Mem-
bers not havillg received a military education,
were not competent to judge of these matters.
Mr. FBANKLAND LENVIS was of opinion that'
there was something extremely uncongenial to the
feelings of Englishmen in the whole of the argil-
ments. he ridici;led the idea of reviving the old
bugbear of invasion.
Mr. D. GIDDY could not conceive any expe-
diency for surveying the country; alnllceeping the
result private. There were abundance of maps
of every part of the kingdom sufficiently correct
for all in'ilitary purposes. A Geological Society to
which he belonged, had it in contemplation to
draw up a complete map, which should contain
the elevations of all the hills in the kingdom, on
a‘cale of six inches to a mile.
Mr. ilikfittiG was of the same Opinion as Mr.
Lewis. It was absurd to suppose that the invading
enemy, if ever there should be one, would not be
sufficiently acquainted with the military positions
of the country : he wished tlfe internal fortifies);
tions were altogether levelled, except the two
great naval arsenals of Portsmonth and Plymouth,
as being of no adv'antage, .and.attended with an
enormous expellee.
Mr. It. Wvap began to address the Committee,
upon which
Mr. WHITBREAD rose to order.

Mr. Baocioex (the Chairrn:►►►) interfered,- and
expressed his opinion tl►at too much personality
had passed during the conversation.
Mr. WHITBREAD insisted that his own tallgUlge
was perfectly parliamentary.
Mr. WARD declared, that he woulknot retract
one word of what he had said.

Mr. WHITBREAD replied, that the language of
Mr. Ward. was contrary to the perpetual usage of
Parliament. When alluding to his (Mr. W's) ob-
servations, he had designated him '' the Gentle-
man opposite," anid. had omitted 'the complimen-
tary adjective ." honourable !"
Mr. WARD said, this omission was pot inten-
tional; but beyond this. retraction he'would not
go .one syllable. He denied that he had: imputed
impropriety of conduct to any Gentleman for his
criticism on military works, but had only meant
to say, that if they were not. Military men, they
-could nut understand them as well those %On) were,
and that the latter entertained iliacrew opinions
on the subject. In respect to the attack made
upon him by the Hon. Member, he felt perfectly
consoled by the_number of his companions—(or-
'der I).

• Mr. BENNETT agreed %vitt), his Hon. Friend (Mr.
Whitbread) that the observations of the Hon.
Member (Mr. Ward) not conforinable to the
usual tenor of•debate in that House. -

Mr. It. WARD should consult his. own discre-
tion as to the manner in which. he should support
his motion, and exploit! his conduct, and begged
leave to deny his having denied the competency of
Members to inquire 'into such matters as those
before the Committee. .All he said was, that their
opinions were not OS valuable as ,those of persons
qualified by their professional edmiation and ex-
perience.
Mr. WI3ITIIREAD said, that the Hon. Member's
declartni; that he did not repent Of what he h.d
said, was. wholly onueeessary-L-Llad any one ask-
ed the Hon. Member to retract. (Hear, hear !)
No certainly. As.to the Hon. Member's offer of
the Map of Bedfordshire, he (Alr. Whitbread)
should accept it gratefully.
Sir JORNI NEWPORT wished to know why the
,contracts with the. Board of Ordnance had not
been kid before the House. It appeared that two
Members of Parliament had been paricipators in
A contract contrary to the Act of -1782 ; and it
ought to be accounted for why the Board, in
milking a provision to prevent the persons in their

4partfnent ti'om participatin °ln• any eontrart,
had omitted eliemiore important npri:ciotv of the
Act; that Uliich filmed to eichiding Metnbers tit
Parliainent..
Mr. WAitti, taid, that nothing
had Init.!) done littt wliat waS perfectly correct.;
and it Members of l'arlianient had violated the
Act, they would be Called to a severe - account
for it.
Some brief explanations tin :this • Subject. alsd
took place between Mr. Baring, Mr. Bennett, and
the'Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Mr. 1-1. 'MARTIN asked what Cause there was
for the additional salary of 1,5001. a yeai: to t.:ie
Secretary of the Master-,Gene? al ?
Mr.tWARD said, there had been ever since the
time of Charles 11. two Secretaries, whose salaries
and perquisites amounted to about 3,5001. a-year.
On a revision, it was, resolved to make the expe-
riment of doing the business by one person, and
that after giving hini this increase, all the fees
should go to the general account of .the office,
which has proved a great saving to the country.
Mr. MARTIN then took a view of i he. increase
of allowances to persons holding situations in the
Ordnance Depart inent,whicli had amounted within
the last six years to 30,0001. This was a suffi-
cient reason for asking for explanations.
Mr. WARD repeated his former explanations.
admitted that there was an annual and pro-
gressive increase in the gratuities to old public
servants; but there had been savings which bad
made up for them.
Mr.. MARTIN then asked a question respecting a
pension, on the subject of which lie intended, at
a future time, to Italie a motion. It was a pension
nn the Estimate.; of 12001. to Colonel Shrapnel'.
He wished to know it any precedent existed. for
expressing the Royal pleasure respecting a pension
in the way in which this was granted
Mr. WARD said, the • precedent followed was
far beyond the time of any Gentleman in that
House. There were. 40 or 50 allowances of the
same kind now be6.ire the House.:_

...
Mr. MARTIN contended, that the Crown never
had a right to vote any such .grant without the
consent of Parliament. . . .

The first Resolution was then put and carried,
as were the following :
For the .and Ser'vice pf Ireland
For-the Land Service of Great, Britain

Fur the charge of the Offices of Ordnance, hi Great •
Britain
I'ur the Service of the Others of Ordnance in Ireiatol 42,763
For the Allowances to retired General Otliceis a:.l

others .
For the charge of Retired Officers of Artillery in
Ireland
For Irish Half-pay, and Superanuated Officers in •
. . __... • . ......

Ireland, their Children 12,599
Fbr.Allowance to Persons lately belonging to the
Office of .Ordnance in-Great Britain, int:lading ,
Widows Pensions
For the sane in Ireland . 3;174

For Allowances to tinpeninuated Spbalterns in
Ireland

Sir J. N-tvrottT gave notice, that on Wednes-
day next he should move for an Address to the
Prince llegent, on the snbject of the Fisheries on
the cnast of Newfoundland, and the North West
coast of America.

Lord CASTLEREAGTI having bronght up the Sub-
sidiary 'Treaty with Hullund,
WHITDREAD asked the Noble Lord, wile•
they he would have any objectiou to coturntmicte
information on the subject of the Russian •Loans
negotiated with Holland, for the interest of which•
tlis country mid become responsible ?
Lord CASTLEREACH was understood to sac, that
perhaps on Monday he might be able to afibrd
some information on the suluject.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated,
that on Wednesday nextihe 'should be able to milli e
a communication respecting the conditions of the
new Loan.

The flonse went into a Committee on the Pauper 11.61tval
Bill, which was rend a first and second time. The Report
was. received, and ordered fur further 'consideration on
Monday.
The consideration of -the Stamp Duties was -postponed till
Monday. _ .

.—..—...
tro imittee on the Mutiny Bill was fixed ior Wednesday.
The cel ANCF.LI,Oii. of the EXCLIFAZU.F.:it reoved that. a
Committee he afmoin e ;to consider what farther regulations
can he made in the Act relating to the provisions for f,acars
and other Asiatic seamen arriving in this country.
.After a fete words from Mr. Fawcett the motion was agreed
to, and the Committee appointed.
Mr. V..FITZ(.4ERALD obtained leave to bring in two fills
for the better collecting of-the Antics un distilled Spirits, and.
on Paper made in Ireland.
The Turnpike Road Amendmeat Bill went through a Com-
mitteC. The Report was brought up and the second reading
fixed fur Monday.—Adjourned till Monday.

LAW INTELLIGENCE.

PREROGATIVE COURT, DOCTORS' COMMONS.

TAYLOR V. WILSOV

we are desired fo give the following explAna-
tory observation relative to the case of TAYLOR V.
WILSON, reported iii our Paper of the 2d instant.
In that report the Judge of the Prerogative COtilt
(Sir JOHN NrcnoLL) is represented to have said,
" that Mr. Wilson, who opposed, the will in ques-
tion, did so merely for the protection of the in-
terests of others, the legatees under a former
in which he had no interest himself." Now
the fact is, that Mr: Wilson, who was indebted
to the estate or the testatrix in a bond of 2501.
was also named residuary legiaee in the former of
the twowills ; and it was from a consideration of
these circumstances, that costs were pressed
against him At the hearing of tl►e cause.