The Sun.
London, England, 1841-06-05 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, JUNE 5, 1841.

„to the effect that the policy of Lord Grey and that of Lord/
Melbourne were essentially different. He wished to
call their attention to a very important fact. They left
the Cabinet, but they left Lord Grey behind them.—( Hear,
hear, and cheers.) They left upon the appropriation
question. The Right Honourable Member for Pembroke
had stated, that that was the only queetioh upon which
he differed from the rest of the Cabinet. A Commission
was issued by Lord Grey, to take the religious census
of the people of Ireland. That was the question upon
which they went out. They stated that they perceived
at once the principle upon which it was based ; the
appropriation question was naturally connected with the
Commission; and upon it they went out. It was perfectly
manifest, without reference to dates and facts, and without
reference to speeches, that they separated themselves from the
Cabinet upon a question upon which the rest of the Government
concurred with Lord Grey. The Right Hon. Baronet the
Member for Pembroke stated that many good measures had
been introduced by the Whigs ; and he and the Honcurable
and Learned Member for Exeter said and boasted that they
were not counteracted by the Tories. But be would ask did the
Whigs deserve no credit for bringing forward measures that
even their enemies could not oppose ; or had the Right Hon.
Baronet such an estimate of the charactr r of his new friends
as to think the measures were deteriorated by their support?—
(Loud cheers.) He stated that the Post-office Bi I
belonged exclusively to the Whigs.—( Hear.) That was
not so, because that Bill was supported by a large portion of
the Tories in that House. It was supported also awl
apelauded by Lord Ashburton—( Loud cheers)—with
whom the Right Hon. Baronet (the Member for Pembroke)
ought tohave some fellow feeling, and it passed the Lords—the
great Conservatives of the country, according to the doctrine
of Gentlemen opposite—it passed the House withouta division.
—( Cheers.) If the Bill was so fraught with evil, was it not
the duty of the Tory party to arrest such a Bill
in that place ?—( Loud cheers from the Opposition.) He con-
fessed that he was at a loss to discover the cause for
such a cheer, but at all events they could nut dispute
that it reseived the support of a large portion of the
party calling themselves Conservatives. But was that great
commercial boon to be withheld lest those monopolies should
be endangered, and by means of the modification of which
the revenue of the country, it is admitted, might be re-
cruited ?—( Hear, hear.) True it was that the expenditure of
late had exceeded the revenue, but mark, that excess had
arisen from an outlay for the honour and interest of the
country, and he could not refrain from expressing
his surprise that with reference to that branch of
the question, the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Pem-
broke, who was First Lord of the Admiralty under a Whig
Government, did not avail himself of an opportunity of re'er-
ring to the state of that department with which he had
been so long and so honourably associated.— ( Hear, hear, and
cheers.) The Right Hon. (gentleman scarcely adverted to
their external policy. He thought he would have said
something on their Indian empire, on which he
had given n notice, but which he had dropped when an
announcement was made of the victories of British arms, unless
the measures of the intended Governor-General should be em-
barrased by any rash declaration made by the Right
Hon. Gentleman.—( Cheers) On the Chinese question he had
certainly said a few sentences which, in his opinion, he would
not have used, if he had been apprised that at the time he was
uttering them, the flag of England was floating on the walls of
Canton.—(Hear, hear.) The results of the Indian earn-
paign, as well as the results of the Chinese expedition,
would, he thought. afford the best refutation of the premature
sarcasms of the Right Hon. Baronet.—(Hear.) It appeared to
him that the silence of the Right Hon. Baronet and his friend
on the Syrian question, was most extraordinary ;
they had merely glanced at it, and for their silence
he was anxious to make some compensation by
quoting the opinion of a man hostile to England,
but whose sense of justice did not prevent his offering the high
tribute of his approval to wisdom and genius. He held in
his hand an extract from the speech of M. Berryer, in which
he said Lord Palmerston had achieved great things for England
in a short time. The movement of the world was changed.
The Mediterranean had again become the centre of the world,
and connected the 60,000,000 of inhabitants of India, of whom
the laws centred in a small island on the other side of the
Channel. The Mediterranean was now the central point in all
the great transactions of the world. Lord Palmerston
had planted his standard there—he had done a mighty
deed, and he was not surprised that the most ardent
English Tory was now resolved to do him honour and give him
a firm sustainment.—( Hear, hear, hear, and cheers.)
He supposed he was adverting to the conduct of the Duke of
Wellington, for that great soldier was too English, when the ho-
nour of his country was concerned, to degenerate into a partisan.
But how would the men who supported these things—how would
everyman in Europe, he would say, be astonished if the House of
Commons should call upon the Queen to dismiss from office
the man they could not deprive of fame—(Cheers)—and in his
place to transfer the foreign interests of the country to those
who in 1829 prompted Russia to force the Baldec ? He would
now pass, and rapidly, from the foreign policy of the country
to the Home Department, and he did so because he saw the
Honourable Baronet opposite, the Member for Wiltshire.
He was happy to congratulate him that without the
assistance of the Olivers and the Edwards, the tranquillity
of the country had been preserved.—( Hear, hear, and
cheers.) With the Home Department was connected
the Poor-law question. The Honourable Baronet the
Member for Pembroke had stated that he condemned the
severity of certain of the clauses of that Bill, but, in the pro-
gress of the measure, in the cause of humanity he had
never interposed—( Loud cheers)—dreading that his
commisseration might be listened to with some disrelish by
the Honourable Member for Nottingham, with regard to
whose election a petit ion had been presented that day.—( Cheers. )
The Hon. Gentleman was one whom he greatly respected,
in consequence of the sacrifices he had made in the
cause of the poor, and which sacrifices, he hoped,
he would ere long have an opportunity of repeating.—( Loud
cheering.) He recollected that many years ago a
motion was made with respect to the Church, and
in the minority was the name of Walter.—(Loud cheers.)
Much had been said about the appropriation clause
by the other side, but, if be recollected rightly,
parties on the other side of the House were connected with
passing an appropriation clause with a vengeance, they
agreed to the Canada Bill—( Hear, hear)—a Bill in
which they consented that property secured by Act
of Parliament to the Church should be divested from
it, and applied to the Popish Church.—( Hear, hear.)
That in his opinion showed that the party opposite were
not influenced by those exclusively Protestant senti-
ments which it was generally supposed they entertained.
But he would pass from the consideration of the measures
adopted by the Whigs to the policy of the Right
Honourable Baronet, the Member for Tamworth,
who by his resolution asked for the support of the
House. The Right Hon. Baronet had adverted to the
introduction of the Reform Bill. What was his comma in re-
gard to that Bill e During the two years before it had
passed, his party had refused to grant Members
to the great cities of the empire; and, in consequence
of their not having taken cognizance of the state
of public opinion, their pernicious resistance to the measure
had produced that state of things which bad put the
Noble Lord the Member for Nerth Lancashire, and
the Right Hononrable Baronet the Member . for
Pembroke, to the painful nece sity of recommending the sub-
mersion one portion of the Legislature.—( Hear, hear.) He
would turn next to the course pursued by the Right Ho-
nourable Baronet in 1839. (The Right Hon. Gentleman
here made some observations, but in so low a tone, that we
were unable to catch even their purport.) The Right Hon,
Gentleman then referred to a report of the proceedings of the
Committee of the House of Commons in regard to the
Orange Lodge. On the 12th day of November, 1834,
the Grand Lodge in Ireland came to a resolution, to the effect
, that they hoped they would be allowed to vindicate their sen-
timents while denounced as ” the paltry remnant of an expiring
faction." The King had dismissed his Ministers at the death of
I Lord Spencer, and he called the Right Hon. Baronet to office.
There could be no doubt but that the country was
then in a high state of religious excitement.—(Hear, and
cheers.) What had the Right Honourable Baronet done ?
The Parliament had sat only for two sessions, yet the Right
Honourable Baronet had shrunk from encountering it, and
had dissolved the Parliament in the midst of that excitement,
which had been produced in the manner to which he had al-
, luded.—( Cheers. ) The Right Hon. Baronet, it appeared,
attached great importance to appointments in the household--
and on that occasion the Earl of Roden, the Grand Master
of the Orange Lodges of Ireland, was the Noble-
man whom be had selected to place in the closest
relation to his Sovereign.—( Cheers.) _Too well did they re-
member the answers given by the Hon. Memberfor Cambridge,
then Secretary of State for the Home Department, to the addresses
presented to him by banes of Orangemen.—(Cheers.) The
scenes at the Dublin Theatre were fresh in their recollec-
tion.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) Such had been the
conduct of the Right Hon. Baronet in 1835. What
had it been since? It was quite true, as the Right Hon-
ourable Baronet the Member for Pembroke bad said
that his Right Honourable Friend had voted for the
English Municipal Reform Bill. But what course hail
he adopted with regard to the Irish Municipal Bill ?
He had stated that Ireland was placed tinder such pecu-
liar circumstances, that it was not entitled to a commu-
nity of privileges with England.—( Loud cheers.) England
had at last forced him to give way ; but when he did so he still
adhered to an odious distinction. which established fvr
the poorer country a franchise twice as large as for the
richer one.—( Loud cheers.) The attempts which had
since been made on the Parliamentary franchise of
Ireland had enhanced the difficulties with which the
Right Honourable Baronet had admitted he should have
to contend. Those were the reasons for which he thought they
ought, in preference to the Right Hon. Baronet, to continue
in power that Government by which Municipal Reform had
been carried—by which Parliamentary Reform had been carried,
by which slavery had been abolished,- by which the East'
India trade had been opened, by which commerce
had been unshackled, which had afforded a cheap mode of
transit for intellectual and commercial communication,
by which education had beets promoted, by which Ireland had
been conciliated, which had cemented the union of the Canadas,
laying the foundation of a mighty empire, by which a
great accession had been made to the glory and renown
of England, and he peace of the world secured.—(Cheers.)
Sir STRATFORD CA.e KING said he must be allowed to
say, without departing from that courtesey, which the Right
Hon. Gentleman had so laboriously professed, that for a Gen-
tleman who was acquainted with the forms of that House, he
was singularly infelicitous in the personal character which he
gave to the debate.—( Hear.) He was far from saying that
the Hon. Gentleman intended to do so, but whenever he took
part in a debate alto ions of the most pointed and personal cha-
racter invariably fell from him. With respect to the argument
of the Right Hon. Gentleman, he would leave that to abler
hands. He must, however, be allowed to say that he could
only infer, from the argument of the Right Hon. Gentleman,
that, in his opinion, such were the transcendent merits of the
Reform Bill, that whoever took part in that enactment, how-
ever incapable of exercising the Ministerial functions, would
be suffered to retain office. In the progress of thedebate, that
event which would send them to their respective constituen-
cies, and which at first was scarcely whispered on
the opposite benches, had at length been distinctly avowed.
Gentleman on the other side of the House, felt the pressure of
tee arguments on the Conservative side. They felt that they
had no ewe to make out against the arguments advanced on
that sit of the House, and that the only course for the in to
pursue, in outs r to avoid the duties prescribed to the n" was
either resignation or dissolution. rho" seemed to intend
catetroice freshdingthsetrleantgtethr, buiron'.t theythat
course. The
Conservatives)temp orwary ouldonly
princi-
ples of the foreign policy of the Noble Lord (Lord Palmerston )
which he was both wilting and happy to admit, might, never-
theless, be found to have sown the seeds of future disturbance.—
( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentlefnan had referred to
the conduct of the Government in all its departments, and al-
though he was ready to do justice to the distinguished conduct
of the Noble Lord at the head of the Foreign Department, yet,
he could mot help reflecting that most of his measurettliad been
carried by the co-operation and assistance of his (Sir S. Can-
ning's) side of the House. Looking at the colonies, he would
observe that it was during the existence of the pre-
sent Government the Canadas had been thrown into re-
bellion,, and almost lost to the mother country.—( Hear.)
That colony, the colony of Lower Canada as well as that of
the Upper Province, were found but ill prepared for a rebel-
lion, and had it not been for the loyalty and patriotism of the
people of those colonies, they would have been lost to us
through the negligence of the Government. After the Chan-
esllor of the Exchequer proposed to go on with the usual busi-
ness of the House immediately after so disastrous a division,
his Right Hon. Friend would have neglected his duty, placed

as he was at the head of a large party in that House, had he
not taken some steps for recording his sense of so unconstitu-
tional a course. He confessed he was at. a loss to understand
how the Members for Lincolnshire could reconcile the vote
they were now about to give, will their conduct 'upon a late
occasion. The Government said they had brought forward
their measures under the pressure of a deficit, and that they
locked to those measures for supplying the deficiency—they had
heard from one of those Hon. Members that if it depended
upon his vote, they would never have an opportunity of bring •
ing those measures helore the Howe, but now he thought it
consistent with that declaration to vote his confidence in the
same Government, he for one could not reconcile such con-
duct. Thanking the House for its patience, he would not de-
tain them ft orn hearing those who could so much better treet
the whole of the subjects before them.
Mr. C. BULLER said he would not follow the last speaker,
but would endeavour to discuss the singularly framed resolution
of the Right Hon. Baronet upon general grounds. The resolution
was so singularly worded for the purpose of obtaining a vote of
no confidence in Ministers, without the usual responsibilities
attending upon such a course. Whatever might be the result
of the division, and he did not think the Right Hon. Baronet
would succeed, for not one on that (the Ministerial) side of the
House could give a vote to turn out Ministers, of whose general
policy they approved, merely because they felt bound to vote
against them on one or two measures. It would be, of course,
a tarty division, and no one could vote with the Right Hoe.
Baronet without at the same time giving him his confidence ;
nor was there one on his side of the House prepared to do the.
Ile agreed with him in thinking it unconstitutional in a Minis-
try to hold office merely by the favour of the Crown. They
were of necessity compelled to give in to the declared wishes
of that House; but not upon any isolated measure. They
were justified in holding on, if the House gave them reason to
believe that it still had confidence in their general policy, but
more especially if they had reason to believe that. they had a
majority of the people with them. Walpole resigned upon a
mereStrivial motion, but it told him that I.e had failed to secure
a majority even by all his corruption ; and it would have been
dangerous to. his life to have held out in the then excited state
of men's minds. North and Addington resigned when in pos-
session of an actual majority, but they both found it
impossible to carry on a ruinous and disgiaciful war
with our colonies in one case, and one of the greatest, mo.t
expensive, and most unpopular of wars in the other, with base
majorities, and having the whole country against them. Ou
the other hand look at Pitt in 1784, and the flight Honourable
Baronet in 1835; the former retained office after repeated de-
feats, because he thought he had the confidence of the coun-
try, and he was justified by the result ; the latter was justified
by the great chance of success. The Ministry of Lord Li-
verpool lost the Property Tax in one ear, and the Salt Tax
iti the next, yet they never thought of resigning ; they sus-
tained one ot the most ignommous defeats that was ever se -
fermi by any Government upon a question deeply involving
the honour and feelings of the Sovereign, deeply involving
their own honour, the Bill of Pains and Penalties against
Queen Caroline; but they did not resign when they abandoned
that Bill fearful of a defeat in that House. Why did not that
Ministry resign upon defeats of such magnitude, meetly be--
cause they telt that although Parliament condemned those
measures they did not condemn their general policy, but pre-
ferred them to any other Government which could replace
them. The practical inference to be drawn from all that was
that a Government ought not to resign upon an individual
defeat, nor so long as they were able to wield with effect the
executive of the State.—(Tory cheers.) What was the
cause of the resignation of the Duke of Wellington in 1830?
Ostensibly it was the vote upon the Civil List, but he retired
because there never was a Government so unpopular at
home and despised abroad—it was utterly powerless fen the pro •
tection of property—it had not to cope with an armed rebellion,
but was beat by machine and rick burners in the agricultural
districts; they were obi god to make their Sovereign refuse to
dine.at the Mansion-house for fear of riot ; but a still stronger
ground was behind. He resigned because he and his Govern •
ment feared a defeat upon the question of Reform in Parlia-
ment. Was that the case at present? Did the Government
fear any discussion of their measures? No; the shrinking
from discussion was on the other side. Had'the ordinary and
efficient administration been in any, even the slightest degree,
paralyzed by the assumeel weakness of the Government?—
( Tory cheers.) He thanked them for the cheer, for it gave
him the opportunity of saying that they had met the most
dangerous outbreak of modern times in the most prompt
and efficient manner ; they had put down the Chartists' armed
and unarmed outbreaks in a manner impossible to be more
prompt and energetic, and yet by the ordinary laws of the land.
Ireland, which was always in a state of disorder and disorgani-
zation, was extremely tranquil. The Right Hon. Baronet
the Member for Tamworth appeared to him very hard pressed
for an argument against the Government, when he spoke of
their being sorely pressed upon the motion of his Hon. Friend
the Member for Finsbu-y, as if it was not often the case that
the strongest Government might be cecasionally pressed between
eight and nine o'clock on a chance division. It was unneces-
sary to remind the Right Hon. Baronet of the radical slate of
the House at such an hour; but whatever majorities might
support him on great divisions, when he came into power he
would find himself very weak in his divisions at that hour.—
(Hear, hear.) It appeared to him that Hon. Members on the
other side had cautiously refrained from much allusion tee-the
foreign policy of the Government, Although it was that'po-
hey which, whatever their individual opinions might be as to
its correctness and expediency, they must all be anxious to see
upheld in such a manner as would inspire respect for the
power of England.—( Hear, hear.) It could not be denied
that there never was a period when that power
was so much disputed.—(Cheers.) He did not happen to
agree with all the foreign policy of the Noble Lord, especially
as regarded the Eastern question, but in following out that
policy the Noble Lord had judged more correctly than he
(Mr. Buller) did of the feelings of the people, nine-tenths
whom had gone along with him in it.—(Cheere. ) He could
nut help bearing his testimony to the extraordinary vigour
by which its success had been insured, the courage with which
it had been followed up, and the skill with which all the pre-
parations had been made. He was proud of the energy aid
influence that policy had given to England, and he could not
help contrasting that proud position with the miserable figure
they cut under the Administration of the Duke of We lineton,
when there was not a power in Europe that did not I'resnme
upon their internal dissensions, and when they allowed the
Turkish empire to be dismembered by France and Russia,
with just so much of remonstrance as showed the impotence
of their threats.--( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet
had confined the burden of his charge to the acts of the
Government. It did not appear to him, however, that so very
unusual a number of the measures of the Government hati
been thwarted.--( Hear, hear.) They had lost nothing of
importance except the Irish Registration Bill, and
that was of less practical importance, because the
law was left as it stood, and the other side had not succeeded
in disfranchising the Irish .people under the pretence ot amend-
ing the registration. it appeared to him that, with retard to
the proposed modification of the sugar duties, the Government
would have deserved the charge of weakness if, after having
brought forward such a plan, they had not afforded the coun-
try an opportunity of expressing its opinion upon it.—(Hear,
hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had reproached the Go-
vernment with having carried some of its measures by compro-
mise and conciliation to Hon. Members opposite. 1 hat ap •
geared to him an extraordinary doctrine for a Conservative
leader, whose measures should rest on such a basis as to sec-are
the co-operation of both parties on all great questions.
It appeared that the Right Host. Baronet abhorred agitation,
but he (Mr. Buller) thought agitation a very good thing ocea-
sionally, because political repose was too frequently a proof of
compromise. Did the Right Hon. Baronet forget that during
his short reign of 1835 his defence of every measure he brought
forward was that it was analogous to some measure of Lord
Althorp's, and the only one majority he obtained on the malt-
tax was thraueh the co-operation of his (Mr. Buller's) side tf
the House? In 1828 the repeal of the Test and Corporation
Acts had been carried—in 1829 the measures of Catholic
Emancieation, to which the flight Honourable Baronet hail
been all his life opposed, had been carried. Did the Right
Honourable Baronet assume a more proud position
in the Session of 1830 on that account? Why, the first night
an amendment had been moved by the Right Hon., but nut
then reconciled Baronet, the Member for Kent ; and it was
only thrown out by the private advice of their own leaders in
the other Hotse. The great measure of the Session was the
financial policy of the Government. They had an opportunity
for a great remission of taxes, and the most important division
teas the Chancellor of the Exchequer's proposal to repeal the
Beer Act, while the landed gentlemen wished to repeal the
Malt-tax. On that occasion the Government was only able to
carry their proposition by the support of the then Opposition.
—( Hear, hear.) He was compelled to admit that thei e was a
great degree of weakness in the present Government; and
that was a matter of serious evil to the public. That weak-
ness interfered with the progress of many beneficial measures.
He need only instance the County Courts Bill,-the appoin---
ment of two new Judges in Chancery,—and, above all, the New
Poor-taw Bid. He regretted the loss of these measures, but,
after all, he would rather have a Government with the sin of
not being able to carry their .good measures, than a Govern-
ment able and willing to carry bar! ones.—( Cheers.) Before
he withdrew his confidence from the present Government, on
the ground of their want of strength, he must see that a
stronger one was taking their place ; and he did not think the
Right Hon. Baronet could show such a Governntent for any
long period. If he again assumed the reins of power, he yen-
turned to predict the Right Honourable Gentleman
would again repeat his former errors, and bring his Ad-
ministration to a close as speedily as that of
the Duke of Wellington. The first great act of the Right
lion. Baronet's political life to which he could refer with sa-
tisfaction was the Catholic Emancipation Bill. Had he pur-
sued the policy by which he was then actuated, he would have
been elevated into the 'rank of an enlightened statesman, anti
ole ain a name for political integrity amongst al future states-
men. Instead of that, he had resorted to the mere temporary
shifts of political expediency, and his course since then had
been nothing but a servile repetition of the errors that had led
to b:3 rt.sigliatiritf.'" Then irelliad been borne into offiee on the
shoulders of a no-Popery mob, as he was now carried to its
gates as the champion of monopoly.—(Cheers.) The Right
Hon. Baronet well knew his own weakness, and had shrunk
from power cn a former occasion on account of its difficulties
and dangers. He had stated that his difficulty then was Ire-
laed, and he had done nothing since to make the government
of that country more easy. His policy appeared to consist
more in having loopholes of retreat than being able to meet
the danger boldly, and it reminded him of the feudal Barons of
who, while strengthening their ramparts, always contrived
having posterns and gates by which they could abandon their
strongholds in time of danger.—( Cheers and laughter.) Every
question of the itigut Hon. Baronet had been based upon
unspecified time and unparticularized details. And the
fact was, that his ob•cure explicitness on the sugar
duty bad led many to believe that these wss nothing to pre-
vent his proposing a greater modification of these duties if
there was only the lapse of a reasonable time allowed.—(Hear,
hear.) The timber duties he had opposed on the contents of
an unknown letter from the Governor of Canada, stating that
the human mind was utterly incapable of grappling with the ques-
tion. For the future any letter of any future Governor might
vitieewiss'astosusiuteitthhaist
ai nl
tdeurceed tohi Ro
mi gst Harteeosn. . Bwitohn ero
gt oaradl tteor
ohoirso
no country gentleman had recommended or approved of the
sliding state, and as regarded the financial position of the
meentry he had been most explicitly incommunicative. It was
an old maxim of Tory statesmen, and a very good one, that
no party had a right to throw out a remedy for an acknow-
ledeed grievance, as taxes always were, unless he was pre-
p :red with another remedy in its place. 13uts on that point the
Hight Hon. Baronet had In en most mysteriously silent.
Whether h- meant to square things by adding to the national
debt, or reducing the establishments, or by some scheme of
indirect taxation affecting an interest which at present knew
nothing about it, or by re storing the old rates cf postage, or
by that highly popular tax, a property tax, or by his coining
round, as he most probably would, to such alterations of the
tariff as he was now opposing the Chancellor of the Exchequer
upon ; all that was matter of uncertainty, but it was clear
that he was
and wide aseo ngi ree says
g , i n:mof
a largea, party around him. By ad tpt ,
that loose
policy, every Member of unfixed
views who was able to pay his footing in that House, would be
attracted towards him. One half of the party who adhered to
him were impressed with the conviction that the moment he
came into power the other half would be thrown overboard.—
(Much laughter.) They were no doubt deeply indebted to the
Right Hon. Baronet for some measures of reform. It was he
who had brought about Catholic Emancipation and the Reform
Bill ; but he had done so by calling into existence the Catholic
Assomation, and Swing, anti Captain Rock.—( Hear.) He
( Mr. Buller) would prefer carrying on reform by a much
less dangerous machinery. He thought it would be better
done by Ministers who would stand in the van of
popular opinion, who would sympathize with the feelirga
the people, and who would proceed on improved principle% o

Government, and voluntarily effect that reform which, in the
former case, had been detested to the public by the means of
coercion. It was for those reasons that he would, by. voting
against the resolution of the Right Hon. Baronet, support the
continuance in office of the present Ministry to the exclusion
of those who would be substituted in their place.—(Cheers.)
Lord DUNGANNON supported the policy of the Right Hon.
Baronet the Member for Tamworth. The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman, who had just sat down, had endeavoured with
same ingenuity, to bolster up the cause of her Majesty's
Ministers. If Ministers were so 'confident that they would
have the people with them, why were they so slow to appeal to
the country ? At almost every election which had taken
place since the commencement cf the present Ses-
sion, was not the Government party defeated—was not
every vacancy filled up with a Conservative Member ? and set
common sense was to be outraged by the assertion that Mi-
nisters possessed the confidence of the country. The Govern-
ment were ready, on any principles whatever, to keep their
place, even on principles which twelve months ago they stigma.
tised as insane. The. Hon. Members for Lincoln had declared
their intention of voting in favour of the continuance in office
of Ministers, one of whose vital measures they had on a late
occasion censured. How was such a comae reconcileable
with common sense ? How could they vote for men who had
involved the country in those very evils of which they com-
plained? He believed the last hour of Ministers was neariy
come, and that they would shortly have to vacate those seats
on which they had never carried on the Government with the
strength they ought to have done. He trusted they would he
succeeded by those who, whatevi r might be the success of their
efforts, would be at least. honest in their intention to benefit
the country.—( Hear, hear. )
Sir HARRY VERNEY denied that any Hon. Gentle-
man on the other side was justified in throwing upon the sup-
porters of the Government the imputation that they supported
them, not from a conviction of the propriety of their mea
sores, but for party purposes.—( Hear, hear.) He thought,
if the Noble bred who had just sat down had heard the
answer to it which was given by the Hon. Member tor Lin-
colnshire (Mr. Handley), he would not so soon have repeat'
the imputation.—( Hear, hear.) He did not think the late
election at Nottingham was an index of the public mind, fur
it was currently reported that the lion. Member for that
place had been sent down expressly by the Censerva'ive Club,
ft om the fund, of which in,titution it was said the expenses of
that election were defrayed. If this were the case, he did
not think there could be ant tliieg mere disreputable to Hon.
Gentlemen oppesite.—( Hear, hi ar. ) He had always been a
consistent supporter of the present Government, and was not
afraid to meet his constituents. How could he sufficiently ex-
press his gratitude to the Noble Lord (J. Russell) and ttte Go-
verement for the benefits they had conferred upon the coun-
try, by the manner in which, note itlistanding all the obstacles
iu their way, they had carried out the new Poor-iax bib.—
How much was the country indebted to them tor amend-
ments in the criminal law? Could it be said that they had
neglected the interests of the Church ? He believed that the
present Government had been the best ft lends of
the Church, and that the agricultural interest, and the
Church, who were their most bitter opponents, had received
from them not only great benefits', but tire greatest they cool:!
receive. Could it be said they had neglected our colonial in-
terests,? Had our Indian administration been neglected?
Was any accusation brought against their foreign policy ?
What reason, then, was there that he should withdraw his con-
fidence from the prestnt Government ?—( Hear, hear.) More-
over, there were several important measures pending between
this country and foreign Powers, which he thought it was
absolutely necessary should be concluded by the Noble Lord.
He teas at a loss to know what part of the administration would
be benefited by the access:on of Hon. Gentlemen opposite,
and-he should therefore vote against the resolution of the Right
Hon. Gentleman.—( Hear, hear.)
Colonel SIBTHORP said that as one haviug property in
the county of Lincoln, he felt himself called upon to express
his surprise at what had fallen from a Noble Lord and an
Hon. Member who represented that county. He had often
heard with delight the declarations made by those Gentlemen
in favour of the present Corn-laws, the main-spring of the
prosperity of the country. The opinions they had stated in the
present debate, were not the opinions entertained by the great
majority of the consti uency of Lincoln. Tell him the company
you kept, and he would tell what you were. Her Majesty's
Government, of whom it was known that he (Coionel Sib-
thorp) had a very bad opinion, were about to receive the votes
of Members, who saw them biting forward measures inimical
to the interests of the country ; and that was, he would
re; eat, a subject to him of regret and surprise.
With regard to the general question, he had always looked
upon the financial duties of a Ministry, as the most im-
portant they had to perform. Now what could be said of a
Governms nt like the present, which, arriving at power had
found a large amount of revenue over the expenditure, and
yet were now leaving behind them a deficiency of fuliy
6,000,0001. ? And yet that was the Government which had
promised a diminution of the national burdens, and measures
which would increase the public prosperity !—( Hear, hear. )
He saw the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, the Chancellor of
the Exchequer, the image of patience ; but he would venture
to say that the Right Hon. Gentleman would soon be brought
to regret the course he had followed. The Ministry had only
retained-office by cunning, shuffling, and subtlety, which could
scarcely be exceeded by the devil himself. They had brought
forward the Poor.law Bill, a measure most unjust and iniquitous ;
and they had needlessly lavished the public money for party
purposes. Now, when a Government was guilty of such con-
duct, was there not the strongest reason for saying that they
were undeserving of any confidence? Why, if they had not
the unwarrantable assurance to hold office in defiance of public
opinion, they would have long since consulted the good of
the- people, and the dignity of the Crown, by resigning power
in favour of men more competent, by their integrity,
their talents, their assiduity, and their finelity to administer the
affairs of the country at a period when those qualities %sere so
indispensable. He had lately calculated the salaries of certain
members of the Government ; and he found that three Secre-
taries of State—the Secretary for the Colonies, the Secretary
for the Home Department, and the secretary for Poi eign
Affairs, received among them 131. 3s. HP. per day.—( Hear,
hear.) And yet many a poor man was consigned to a Baetile
because he had been visited with misfortuees after a long
lite of labour. Again, he found that ten Ministers had
for the last' ten years received the sum of 500,000/. ; the
Chancellor of the Exchequer having received 50,0ce/. ,
and other members of the Government similar sums. That
was the amount merely of their salaries. Now, he would
consent to give them a fair quarter's allowance if they would
cf thei. (ten voluntary act come over to that side of the House
and give up the Government, and that he thought a very li-
beral offer— (A laugh)—but they were too fond of sticking to
their places to accept it; but ere long the vu'e of the House
would compel them to resign, and he thought he could not give
a vote more satisfactory to the country than that he should
give in fas our of the elution.
Mr. HA WES did not feel himself called upon to offer to
the House any lengthened observations on toe speech of the
Honourable and Gallant Gentleman who had just sat down.
It was merely a parody of the speech made many years since
by the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Pembroke on
the subject of the Salaries of the Privy. Councillors, and be
would leave it to that Right Honourable Gentleman. But to
answer an argument which he (Mr. Hawes) considered as un-
worthy of being addressee to a British House t f Commons.—
(Cheers.) He certainly had been astonished at hearing
the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman say that the speech of the
Hon. Member for Liskeard had merely dealt in general charges
against the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth,
for a speech more full of accurate historical details—a
speech more replete with particular and specific charges,
it had never fallen to his (Mr. Hawes') lot to hear, and he
only regretted that the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for
Tamworth had not been present in the House to do justice to
the arguments of his Hon. Friend.—(Cheers.) If historical
precedents were to be referred to to determine the course that
Ministers ought to take, he thought that speech should be con-
sidered as having settled the question. But he denied that
any Ministry since the passing of the Reform Bill could be
bound by any precedents which had occurred previous to the
enactment of that great measure. The Right Hon. Baronet
had founded his argument on the cases of Sir Robert Walpole
and Mr. Pitt. He (Mr. Hawes) denied that those prece-
dents were at all in point, and he doubted whether any States-
man ought to be guided by precedent in such cases, but that
their conduct must be founded upon the peculiar circumstances
of each case.—( Hear, hear.) He remembered a speech which
the Right Honourable Baronet had made soon after
the passing of the Reform Bill, in which he said that the ordi-
nary tactics of party must be given up as no longer available
under the change which had been introduced into the repre-
sentative systr m ; and why so ? Because under the old system
they had the nomination boroughs; but it was the public
epieion, expressed out of doors, and the independent party,
which must now de ermine the Ministerial position. No one
had molar eleatly—Flasidated that point than his Hon. Friend
in the speech which he had made some time ago, and the only
plan to be adopted was to be guided by the best information
that could be acquired as to the state of public opinion out of
doors, and on that found their policy with reference to the
questions that had been broughtebetore the .House -by her
!Majesty's Ministers ; they had the strongest indications
of public opinion derived from public meetings, held
in the face of day, and in the open air, that
men of:all parties were united to seek commercial free-
dom. From the indications presented by those meetings the
state of public opinion might be gathered, and by that the
policy of Ministers ought to be guided. The Right Hon.
Baronet the Member for Pembroke had referred to many mea-
sures which had been brought forward by the Government,
! and had been subsequently modified by the House, and from
that he had dawn a conclusion that the Ministers did not pos-
sess the confid. nee of the House. SOme of his references,
however, had been singularly infelicitous. He had wholly
overlooked the vote of last session, and in going back for a
period of ten years he had referred to some measures which
told most unhirtunately for his argument.—a Hear, hear. )
I The Right Honourable Baronet had referred to the
English Tithe Bill, and he said that the Opposi-
tion was entitled to all the credit of that measure,
because without their support it could not have been carried.
Bu; he had surely forgotten that the English Tithe Bill,
breught forward by the tight Hon. ilar.inet the Member ter
Tamworth, was altogether void of that principle which formed
the principal and best texture of the present law. Then, with
regard to the Irish Tithe Bili. The Right Hon. Gentleman
had made eiest complaint because it no longer contained the
appropriation principle, on which he said the present Govern-
ment had detertn ned to steed or fall. He (Mr. Hawes) still
retained his opinion with regard to the principle, but the charge
came with sineul sr impropriety from the Right Hon. Gentle-
man, acting, as he did, with the Noble Lord the Member for
North Lancashire, who might be called the hero of the 147th
clause of the Irish Temporal ties Bill. That clause was as direct ,
a violation of Church pro} erry as the Appropriation Bill.
That 147th clause appropriated to other purposes the surplus
of Church property ci, rived from the commu.ation of leases,
and yet the Noble Lord thought it fitting to vituperate her
Majesty's Government for having given up the Appropriation
clause, whet, he himself had been compelled to give up the
147th clause; and language as strong had on that occasion been
applied to the Noble Lord by those amongst whom he was then
sitting, as had since beers applied by }timed( to his fortner col-
leagues, and he had been guilty of as much tergiver-
sation in giving up the clause as those whom he now
accused. The Right Hon. Baronet the Member fur 'Tamworth
had designated that clause as dangerous to the safety of pro-
perty. In cases of this sort it was impossible for a Ministry
to be guided except by the public opinion, and never had that
opinion be-n so strongly expr, ssed as it had been in favour of a
change in oar commercial policy. Ministers had been
charged with having brought forward th.s measure merely for
the purpose of keeping their places. The same charge had
been brought forward against them by the Hon. Member for
Ripon, when they introduced the Retorm Bill. The tact was,
that the circumstances of the country were such, that they
were under the necessity of proposing either additional taxation
or an alteration in the tariff. The Hon. eleineer for
Kilmarnock had said that he (Mr. Hawes) had
found filet with the foreign policy of the Ministry,
He had never said one word on the fort ign policy of the Minis-
try, and he should not allude to it, as he agreed entirely with
the Hoe. Member for Liskeard. But when the Hon. Member
for Kilmarneek imputed to him a desire to pull down the
Church because he upheld the voluntary principle, he must say
that a more irrelevant charge had never been made; seeing as
he did the success of the voluntary principle in the Dissenting
and the Catholic Churches, he thought it more calculated to
strengthen the Church than the comeulsory principle ad-
vocated by gentlemen opposite, The Right Hon. Baronet
hid a'so taken great credit to the other si..e for upholding the
Assembly of Jamaica, on the occasion of the Jamaica Bill.
Now, the Right Hon. Baronet had then stated that he merely
wished to reserve a locus penetentice to that Assembly ; but
that, if they were to disobey the Imperial Parliament, he

Should then he prepared to support the measure. If the
financial deficiency was toe ground of the preserve motion, it
ought to he brought forward earlier. With regard to the
Postage Bill, he would be perfectly ready to repeat his vote,
even in the present state of the finances, because he felt con-
vinced that a r vision of the tariff would increase the revenue,
as not only to make good that deficiency, but to
enable Ministers to reduce many taxes which now pressed
heavily on the industry of the country. Throughout the who'e
of the debate it had never been attempted to be shown that by
a revision of the tariff the proposed revenue could not be raised,
and the Right Hon. Baronet throughout his speech cautiously
al,stained from contesting in the slightest degree the calcula-
tions of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. With regard to the
duty on corn the question was not 30 much as to the amount of
revenue to be raised irom the duty, as to whether it would not
give such a stemulns to trade as would cause an immense in-
crease in the Customs revenue. Did Gentlemen opposite mean
to say that the calculations ofthe Chancellor of the Exchequer
were erroneous? and if they were not, what could be the meaning of
their opposition, except a desire to get office, when they might
perhaps, the next day bring forward measures of a precisely
similar nature ? The Ministers had adopted plain and intel-
ligible, and had brought forward, measures calculated to confer
a tangible benefit on all classes of the people. The opposition
to those measures was based upon no intelligible principles.
With regard to the sugar duties, they did not say at once, we
will receive no slave-produce. With regard to the Corn-laws,
the Right Hon. Gentleman said he would pledge himself to the
sliding scale, and wished it to go forth to the farmers
of Etigland that he would adhere to the present
scale, but he would not pledge himself not to intro-
duce any aAeration fatal to the principle of that scale.
The Right Hon. Baronet, whilst he acknowledged that
the prosperity of the country was based upon the manufacturing
interest, meant to diappoint that great interest on this occa-
sion, and would do nothing whatsoever, for that great and suf-
fering class, which, he contended would be reciprocally com-
bined with the agricultural interest, when there was the best
opportunity of benefiting it. The Right Hon. Baronet had
declaied that he would adhere to the slicing scale. They knew
nst the principle upon which he opposed them; all that they
could underssand was, that he was struggling for place.—
( Hear, hear.) On their part it was a struggle to tuifetter in-
dustry—it was a'struggle for food and wages—for that inde-
pendence and comfort amongst the great masses of the people,
which would add strength to the nation and glory to the throne.
He (Mr. Hawes) rejoiced that they had to look to the leader-
ship of the Noble Lurd in this great struggle.--( Hear, hear.)
They confided the cause of the people to him with perfect
confidence.—(Hear, hea . ) He had not shrunk from
a cear and plain avowal of his principles. They knew
we-I what they were supporting, and hit past conduct assured
them that their support would not be misplaced.—( Hear.)
The various meetings which had taken place throughout the
country, including Liverpool, Manchester, Glasgow, and Edin-
burgh, and the opinions there expressed, fully justified her
Majesty's Mieisters in the course which they were pursuing.
If the Hight Hon. Baronet should succeed in defeating their
measures, there was a feeling out of doors which would not let
the matter rest with a division in that House.—( Hear, hear.)
Opposition to such measures would be fatal to his popularity.—
( Hear, hear.) They (the Opposition) had long been leaning
upon the Poor-law agitation ; they were begisining to lean
upon their new allies, the Chartists, by tampering with their
passions. When wise measures were propounded, which had
no party object, and which would be beneficial to all parties,
the time was designated as unfitted to the calm discussion of
the question. By such conduct they would lay the foundation
cor the agitation of other subjects, arid bind together men who
had not hitherto united in a struggle not merely for commer-
cial but for political measures.—( Hear.) He chalenged Hon.
Gentlemen opposite to state the t'me when any great reduction
of commercial duties had been effected and had not been fol-
lowed by the greatest possible benefits.—( Hear. ). Reference
had been made to the time of Sir Robert Walpole. He would
venture to say that the 20 years subsequent to the alterationi
then made in the commercial system of this country were
marked by the greatest prosperity. So also in the time of Mr.
Pitt, and afterwards of Mr.- Huskisson, there was most unequi-
vocal evidence that the same results had followed a similar po-
licy. He felt convinced, therefore, that the measures were
right in princple. They had got to hear from Hon. Gentle-
men opposite on what principle they resisted these changes. if
they could show that they we. e likely to be injurious to the coun-
try, there would then be some ground for concluding that it was
not a mere question of party politics.—( Hear, hear.) The
policy proposed by the Government was based upon experi-
ence ; the principles had been tried—the results were known ;
and he regretted that the measures proposed should be the sub-
ject of a struggle which would at once be prejudicial to the
authority of the House, and injurious to the best interests of
the country.
Lord STANLEY said he had observed of late, in the
course of these protracted debates, that it was a favourable
amen that they were approaching to a conclusion of it, when
the Right Hon. Gentleman the Vice-'.'resident of the Board
of Trade moved the adjournment of the debate, and com-
menced that of the succeeding night at five o'clock ; and hav-
ing that evening perceived that happy omen, he hailed that
Hon. Gentleman as the harbinger of the good tieings that
they were about to close that discussion.—( Hear, hear.) But
hefare they did so, he was anxious to address a few words to
the House in explanation of the grounds on which he
was prepared most cordially to support the motion of his Right
Hon. Friend. He confessed that if anything could surprise
him on the part of her Majesty's Ministers it would be the
course which they had taken. The narrow, and, as it seemed
to him, the unseemly ground which they had occupied in re-
sisting the proposition of his Right Hon. Friend the Member
for Tamworth.—(Hear, hear.) That proposition divided it-
self into two points—the first that which he should have con-
sidered, and that, wh:ch in any other times would have been
considered, the main and the substantive object of discussion
and debate; the second, that which in any other times would
have been a mere truom, results as a corollary from the asser-
tion of the first proposition. What was the first pro-
position of his Right Honourable Friend? That
her Majesty's Ministers did not suffic,ently possess
the confidence of that House to enable them to carry
through that House measures which they believed to be essen-
ti tl to the public welfare. In what manner had that been,
met? Had it been met as a Government strong in the con-
viction of its own right—strong in the conviction of its own
good cause—strong in the sup; not of that House—strong in
the support of the people--would have met a proposition so
directly condemnatory of their whole conduct and pro-
ceedings as a Government? Why he would imagine that if
the Government did not meet it with a resolution avowing- the
confidence of Parliament and of the country in the measures
they had adopted, at least they would have taken the bold
line of denying distinctly and at once that they did not
possess the confidence of that House and of the country, that
they would have told them that their measures and their srin-
, cipies had been so plain arid straightforward, that they hail at
all times so distinctly avowed their intentions, that if they (lid
not sti 1 retain the confidence of the House, that it was by no
change of conduct on their part, but by vaccillation, which
they had no right to expect. on the part of the people of Eng-
land. They would have told them that the principle which
they laid down on their accession to office, they had strenu-
ously and steadiiy persevered in maintaining; that they had
firmly adhered to what they believed to be right —that th-y
had steadfastly and constantly resisted that which they felt in
their consciencies to be wrong, and upon that ground,
upon the declaration—the clear, manly declaration of
their principles—the clearness with which they had
a serted them, the steadfastness with which they had
acted upon them, the firmness and the success with which
they had vindicated them, any Government worthy
the name of a Government, would have met the
proposition of his Right Honourable Friend.— (Loud
Cheers.) And now how had these Ministers—for he would
hardly say this Government—( Cheers from the Opposition)—
boo had these Ministers met the proposition of his flight Hon.
Friend ? Why, with faint and feeble oppo ition, and at last
with a hesitating and reluctant admission of the truth of the
proposition.—( Hear, hear.) True it was, that the Right
Hon. Gentleman, whom he did not see in his place, -the Presi-
dent of the Board of Control—true it was, that the Right
Honourable Gentleman, in an early period of that
debate, did venture on a hesitating defence that
her Majesty's Government were not quite so bad
as his Right Hon. Friend (Sir R. Peel) had asserted. He did
produce a certain number of measures, which in the last five or
six years they had succeeded in carrying through the House.
True it was he said " we have been defeated on many occa-
sions ; on more than one occasion we have been forced to
abandon our measures—on more ,than one occasion we have
been compelled to modify ethers ; we have received the seg-
gestions, we have received the corrections, we have deferred to
the commands of those who, upon the other benches, dictate
to us what course we should pursue ; but some measures we
have carried—don't deny to us that some measures we have
been able to carry since that period of 1835 down to the present
time." An. what said his Right Hon. Friend (Sir J. Graham)
to demolish the argument of his Right Hen. Friend opposite ?
The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite went through those mea-
sures seriatim. He enumerated the whole of them, and his
Right Hon. Friend the Member for Pembroke, following him,
showed that there was not one of those measures upon which
he had nut received the support of his political opponents. Not
one of all the measures which the Hon. Gentleman had enu-
merated—not one upon which upon the introduction, upon the
second reading, or upon the third reading, was a single division
taken by his political opponent ; with the single exception, he
granted, of the Municisal Corporation Bill for Ireland, which
at last was passed, by the Right Honourable Gentleman op-
posite adopting the franchise which was insisted upon
by that side of the House. But, said the Right Hon. Gentle-
man who had spoken that evening, the Vice-President of the
Board of Trade, " What blame can you attach to us if all our
measures have been so perfect and so pure that they com-
manded the respect and the support of our opponents ?" The
argument was a plausible one, but would it bear examination ?
% hat, if they should have borrowed those measures from their
opponents themselves? Whet if they were not their measures?
W hat if they were measures which belonged to the Government
of Earl Grey—which belonged to the Government of Sir R.
Peel—which were adopted by them ( the Mini-ders) and passed
by them with the support and as,istaiive—aye, and almess
in every case, with nooliticatistis concurred in by them.
of those measures which, by taking from their predecessors,
they adopted as their own, and now claimed the mt rat of pass-
ing.—( Hear.) He spoke then of legislative measures and of
leeislattve measures only. His Right Hon. Friend went
through the whole of tnese measures, and he ( Lord Stanley)
would net weary the House by adverting individually to each
of those points to which he had alluded, anti upon none of
which he had met with an answer from the Right H. Gen-
tleman oppo-ire. But there was one point whip h his Night
Hon. Friend had omitted. He proved distinctly and clearly
that her Majesty's Government had never succeeded in carry-
ing a measure without the consent of their po itical opponents
—that many measures wish used hat.l attempted to car, y, they
had been compelled to abandon without costing to a di icon,
arid that upon others they had been defeated. But he had
omittsd to state that the Government did not command the
confidence of these who called theineelves their supporters,
and that not half a dozen but twenty times in the course of
five years they had been compelled in their resistance of mea-
sures brought forward by their own supporters to _call in the
as istance of their political opponents.—( Hear, hear.) Would
the House permit him, without going beck to an either petite:l
than the S s-ion of 1838, to call its attention to the conduct
of the Government in referrenee to the Ballot? In 1838 the
Benoit was not an open question. The Government declared
that as a government they woald oppose its adoption. In
183:3 the Hon. Member for Londoa brought fcieward his nme
lion fer introducing the Vote by Ballet. The Goveszninent
typeset{ it. The Noble Lord addressed the House in opposition
to that motion, and when they came to the debate upon the
motion, which was resisted by the whole strength of Go-
vernment, the following was the re-ulr of that d vision :
In favour of Mr. Grote's :notion, ayes, 198—noes, 315. Now
how much did her Majesty's Ministers contribute from their
own supporters to that? Why, the ayes exclusively consisted
of those supporters who were about to vote confidence in her
Majesty's Government, anti who looked to the Noble Lord as
their leader and guide, the ayes to make up that number of
193, including 16 persons holding office, produced just 65
Members. —(Loud cheers.) While of the 315 whq had
de eated the 198 supporters of the Government—thereby
assisting the Government—out of that number the Conserva-
tive party furnished 250, In 1839, Mr. O'Connell, on the
28th of February, moved to bring in a Bill to assimilate this
franchise of Ireland to that of England. When a division wa§,
come to on that subject the ayes in favour of the motion were
92, and the noes against the motion were 155, which
her Majesty's Government, including 21 gentlemen in
office, furnished 49, and the Conservatives 106,--(l,oest
cheers.) On the 21st of March the Honourable
Member for Kilkenny moved for leave to bring in a Bill to
amend the Reform Act, That was resisted by the Govern..

MORNING

crt.,teei,:t.to lien.
vote witl, btehrefonrloKtiiolkne,nhn,ywbeirrgh.,,,astiffuy,g7iiiv,sej
oy a majority of en, and of that number the Censeac
nie
produces 66 gentlemen, while the Government proshue
29. On the 4th of June, 1839, the Hon. Baronet t
her fop Preston brought in a Bill to alter the voters for toutoidt
The store Baronet had 81 votes; the noes were 2, 2(ii,01,,,,rt5•
number the Goren merit produced 39, while their
se`-
of tive opponents product d 168.-(Cheers.) In the two
,00;
of Parliament that had just expired, he had produet,'„ated:
stances in which the result had happened which he
from which, if the Conservative party had remaine teesson,
the Government would have beers deleated by their oacnreip;,.
porters. He brought this fore ard as the last of threeri , ewer
stances marking the great command of influence esuarl'..cne
which the Government possessed in the House ot C 5"
the He would stare the House the trouble of bearing all,
nd sel
tails, because the Noble Lord the eecretary for. Ire!, oitiou,
fnain:ly caufessyd that, as to the first part of the Oil „able
they riad not the confidence of the House, so far as ‘`‘ ever
them to carry their measures into effect.-( Hear. ) out
such an an admission, he would ask, n.ade by a Covern,"eouget
fore? Supposing that his Right Hon. .Friend not. lee
this proposition forward, that the Government did
.ne
the,
sess the confidence of the House sufficiently to ellant,d hoe
to carry their own measures, chat, he would ask, vouttirne if
been she slate:ion of such a Government in any othereee
it had b- en carried? Would not that have been toanisiuctieg
decision that the Government wete not worthy 01 Lo' linseet,
the business of the country ?-(Hear.) To the ast in'oestre
kowever, of himself, and, he had no doubt, of the tts tet
under such circumstances the Noble Lord, admitting,
~12..ue to
proposition, found it convenient to demur to the secosduase, it
state that, though they had not the confidence of thefuileas)
did not fo low necessarily that they should resigu•(ht
As far as he thought the proposition weak, so he th %Niro?
arguments by which it was maintained, were the.lls9st e.sested
diusry he had ever heard.-( Hear, hear. ) He sievereer,,,,,,,
to hear from a Whig Administration such arguments as tbe
heard from the President of the Hoard of Conireul,
Right lion. G, nchman the Secretary at War. ‘Vhat
tetlist
the President of the board ot Control? Why, he s' „enibe
it wee not thsir duty to resign, though they d:d not Po-0, ase
eentidence of the Hide, or carry their measures ; it ef the
their tatty to resign bs pause they did possess the fasor ,over Crown -(Gs eas cheering)-and, that no doubt might 'otion
tensed, the Right Hoe. Gentle followed up this deal es, if
with the following observations-" which, let nte tell)ibcOo
the beet support any Minister can have."-(Cheenn) that'were the words that fsll from a Whig alinister-wer.,
fell trim one who was at one time the ardent and zesin4ce be
fender of :he people's rights-such were the ductrineif(Lord
ha., hut tooth to the Commons of Csreat Britain. Dese
Stanley) knew not whether that Right Hon. Gentler
in his dace or not; if he was, he would tell him tb4libeitta
could, in his judgment, be no higher rglen,, et 34
or a graver offence than that of a minister att-se.o.-7:
to whisper such a doerine in the ear of a Soreltew
(Cheers.) He wou.d tell him that of the personelle'," tbi
Crown they knew nothing in that House. Deep °lotto'
crime cf the finister, who fancying that he possess "al set
your, presumed to use it for patty interests, deeper ose
his guilt e ho dared to use the name of his Sovereign t.e),, es'
awe the tiscussions and to letter the free exercise'cheer'
pressions of the Representatives of the people.-(Greatrf
ing.) Another argument that had been used 11 asoshi
~,oteto"
Cabinet :mister, the Secretary at War, was that it tper
little whether Government were enabled to carry tbteivesell
sures so long as they met with no censure from the 'such
their administration of the law. Never, he believed, "ei", be
a fatal doctrine put forward, for its etlect . sen:olesss
completely to overthrow the power of the House of Ct;
over any Minister, and would leave the admisoistra floe;
the affairs of the country in the Crown, and the Croy
.°oolll'
He (Lord Stanley) had heard this uoctrine proceed
but
he tie
Right Hon. Gentleman with great astonishment, _tese
in some measure relieved when he found that that cib't be
rested with the Right Hon. Gentleman himself, and ;,,,d the
had thought forwaid no authorities for it. He
and Right lion. Gentleman to follow up his doctrine, an"
sbees
;stun. in the history of this country, a Minister had twevose
displaced by a vote of want of confidence. A vote 01.
use of
was the highest test of the disapprobation of the ~`'
Cemmons ot the conduct of the Ministry. The BOh t sot° I
Baronet. the President of the Board of Control had nere;ossi
say that a single defeat was no ground fora Minister r.e
10
rife
office. Was this, 1:e (Lord Stanley) would ask, the 01,
single defeat? Was it not the fourth, the fifth, the six',
could not tell how many times they had been defeeteoo
( Hear, hear.) They had boasted of the • qui'
of Jamaica. If Jamaica was tranquil, it was because 11;1;00
jetty's Ministers had not been enabled to carry ten that
measures which they contemplated with reseeet
as, the.
country. If the Church was tranquil, it was beta
,„tr. It
:Ministers could not carry their measures on that sor 5 be
the national ss stem of education was not altered, it" tbeit
cause the Goveinment had not been enabled to earerYtereet
measures on that ,übject. Much had been said with
to Sir Robert Walpole, and the course which he had Per
during his Administration had been brought forosard,rte-
cedent. Now, he (Lord Stanley) had looked haelte
history of Sir Robert Walpole. Sir Robert Walpole
joyed the confidence of the House of Commons aria thL;r, of
for a long period. He had administered the To the
the country for a length of time unexampled, euso so''
period arrived when he lost that confidence, tied he treed
fered himself to be overborne in his own Cabinet.--yee re
He permitted himself to be led into measures, antibeeat!',
sponsiole for them, which he himself disapproved °'. nig
plunged the country not into civil strife, but civil ware lit
did he do this ? Why, at the entreaty ot his Sore dose
did this in obedicnse to the passions of people out ot,
abs
which Lad been excited by those who sat in the sane ash.
with himself.-(Great Owe: ing.) And from the 115"1nei,,,
thus unwisely yielded, the power of Sir Robert WalP,-hard
gone-the place remained but the authority was gone. aoi
councils bi ought inefficient actions. Feebleness succe'ecuee,
energy, and the result was ignominious c'etliA allef
and compromises. the hour of defeat came at last"? anui,sle
a long life of useful service, the power of Sir Rebeest 'este
which he might have resigned with dignity, Was wre,tiee lt°
him by a majority of the House of Commons, aeen he tor,
respected and less regretted, because he fell coo late slo
reluctantly.-( Great cheering.) He (Lord Stanley)::tbf.
not but think that there might be at least erne Minister 'wit g
present day who might look upon the past history
Robert Walpole as a matter of deep reflection lee oat's'self, self, for he would most assuredly find that be
eate'
be placed in the same situation, because Ise had eerereole'
the faults which had been committed by S;r Robert. 11'1001
But the Right Hon. Gentleman the Judge Advocate "2e-sett's.;
grounds, and asked them had not the Clown the povi "„-
solving Parliament? and he said there was the allernae-114
dissolution or resignation, and the question was wheit'are
should or should not dissolve the Parliament. Wilt utr
spent to the Right Hon. Gentleman, that was not tbee..;,; tt
ton before the House-it wae a question which, aeenlestre,'
the Constitution, never ought to be mooted in that' ed thy
No doubt the Crown had the power-no one disprn,reoP!
that power formed one of the prerogatives of the rtes
one which that House had no right and no desire to in
with, although he felt persuaded that gentlemen
Tory) side of the 1-Luse did not deprecate a d
He believed that the country at large were anxiously
a dissolution, which would enable them to relieve thell-b esti
by their own exertions, from an Administration wbiee (liter
lung crippled their exertions.-(Cheers.) But it Wash-, 61
tion with which that House had nothing to do. euiee-itti
were taken it must be taken upon the respnlatli 104
the - advisers of the Crown, and they were la Ivo%
responsible
wtao,
tah,fyutsuorueght: afollriainmeandLia-(Cheers.) ie.' the'
ask
__what Wl:te tbl
to justify such a step-he did not shrink from or derefo
measure, but the country had a right to know, and Wile,"-eiseirs
under what circumstances and for what purposes the L7e.l"
went advised the Sovereign to dissolve the Parlialetenee th;
doubt they would say it was for the purpose of cartih7. se.A.
alteration in the operation of the duties on corn, 6112,5e-sla'ne:
sugar; one past of the scheme they had already. au•-defeer?
and on another they confidently anticipated a sleet
In what position was the country placed by such on' oil
Did they take these measures up for the purpose of 93,0•41,
the motion of the vast machine of State work more eatT wet
they propose by them to bring the two Houses of Leg'st ~t tbs
into greater harmony? It was none of these—because a
moment the two Houses were perfectly in accordance eefe
each o her. Hut should the Government, unexpectedlY
thernse.ves, succeed in their endeavours, and obtain e ftsti°e,'
majority of one or two, the happy result of their ag'eeel
charged as they were with the operations of the Goverl'e'ese;
they would have created difficulties for themselves andr
two accordant parts of the Legislature in direct hostiliqeor,bi
there was one object to be gained-it was a desperate end the
agitation and excitement, an effort which the good sense
people would repudiate and visit with signal failure;eerea
an attempt to prop up a tottering Goverumeht.-0'
But Members of that House had no right to suppose!, 0 3
lution ant °aching ; they were bound to discuss mellsur;e-
they were assured that the House won' ;etiee''
the whole period allowed by the Cohei.'' tlu
For what reason was it that ever since the paseieg
stabs
Septennial Act no oae Parliament had beau eltusved tb's
wholememh
Members
oi of d
thatof timeHou
a?-itshould
was
not carry eaar'reronwitsbeeiPrudill?;'ti;4"-'
mighte
under tlehgeifselaatreofforaptphteAgrionogdboeffortehethpeeiorpele,onstituentst t-Le
cJ
time of. the public and make laws undee theanidrannee°!lt;ideeae:tfll
appearing on the hustings. If they;
of any such fear, they did Ty,t legislate but
er that
themselves into agitators. In J':ene seer 7 Canning in debate
let fall an expo ssion intinaatir,g
the House would probably 'ue aid not act inalePiee
that shortly after tb° 'Ege
dissolved. Was this aeges;,eior.,
in by the Whigs of the's day? No. !.ord Henry' Peitt'erae:
Lord Lendsdowne, irestiguartilv repudiated such tit eaten' res
unconstitutional itoiguage and hoped the constitutionalted
linese of the House would' not be influenced or intineolt
it. What did Lord Flowick say?-not his Noble Foen",,,, teleae
he saw opposite-(-Laughter)-but Lord Grey, whop' ii'°4.3ete
of the Hun, (3entleman opposite dared say was d'st if tot
when the division wits go noeson ; he suggested tlie",..eoei:,
original motion were lost it might Mt-, tt,
for the House to address the Throne in order to n' fi.°f;
threat, and it was equally deprecated by Mr. Whitbrea wire'e
was the way such a threat as that now held out nat'',siseis
1807. Put he would ask them were they about to the
Parliament, for it so, then they had no
right to carrY 13
eiscussions under that menace. They were bound Peas
that they would not be dissolved, but if it was se feennot
were placed in such a situation as no Miuister of t °ed!
had any right to put them, for they were bringie e
great questions, not in the hope of pa-sing them int", tar '
esere
because they were about forthwith to al peal to the ' ,cent Now he would say that it was most unconstii utior to ate
uf
such measures under such a threat. It had b-ete wino' /le
UI
niehts ago, that he (Lord Stanley) was an unw OrthY
er
the late Air. Hu-kiss ,n-that was a name whic'a u -Perth
men were fond of quoting, when it aoswei ed their e gene
but what slid he say on this very subject? On the 161, b'''
1826, Mr. Whitbread, or Mr. Whitmore, was about t''.ess.',l,',l
on a motion to " consider the present state o the Coln ielo
Mr. Husete-on essid " his purio,:e in rising,was to per ss
House, if possible, not. to engage in the discussion ton eitt
occasion, tor it must terminate in embat-lassmenr• '
0 not
c 1
was any one question more than another which ought nlia,
d•seu.sed on the eve of a gsneral erection, it was the Cnille se
Such was the opinion of Mr. fiuskseson against the se
prudence of intreclucing a discussion on 'the Corn-la,l.r'e t
eve of a general election ; but what would he say "e"
done with a view to its being the very pivot on ;aid i
election hung ?-(Louil cheers.) What would he have.CArn t
in connectiao with the comideration attached to thed fee
lawseand their influence upon wages snit the well-hei'nepesed
'
humbler sisases - hat would he have siid, if it were Pe' one of
)/
to combiee with it the existt nee of a Government ic'eeers's
the, two gnat parties which divided that country?--"A r
That would make the agitation tenfold; and :et °'jper
circumstances an actirese had tseen put into his .harwe,'e anti
would read to the pause the cam and temperate toise ( s et;
tl
;h'seby ccra l
lit(e,elCjea.titl.'
the people to suppoi t the proposition of Min sters. ) by tb
tst, ieeaet
tvaccotsf
ramgne
an
raaltide lreetse: (coal•it
avpgp
was addressed to the cPonsiituency now represented
°f ,t 1
Noble Lord the- Secretary- tor the Colonies, the leadekring fat;
moteree
House.--s( °Teat eheer.ng. ) He was far from o°,l it. fie ;
*ttlinl he insulting the good taste and feeling of
otr, th: 'el
that the Noble Lord had an)thing to do scituhe- I
Lard if he had thought hies guilty of sushi a produt'll eist ti
but he had brought it forward to indicate the degree °f her et' ?,1,0
end deliberation, and the excited popular
the House of Commons was called on to deliberate on on
most exciting and interesting questions. Before he
rose, 5131.,
he wished to address a few words to the Hon. Gentle ore f clings, uns s
age
professing, andtsincerely lie believed, great regard f")_r,`tir
cultural naterest of the country, formed part of thas