The Sun.
London, England, 1841-03-23 00:00:00

jection to which the Speaker had so forcibly adverted.
He thought, after what the Speaker had said, the ob-
ject would be best fleeted by withdrawing the clause
irom the present. Bill, and introducing it at the end of
the Session. It should be withdrawn on the distinct
understanding that it would be re-introduced at the

close of the Sessioc.
S;r R. PEEL said he had been entirely satisfied
with the course which the Hon. Gentleman proposed,
thinking it quite , sufficient to mark the sense of the
House, and to prevent this proceeding from being
drawn into a prece lent. He would have been satis-
fied, as he ha l before said, if in the Queen's speech the
Queen had said, " I have departed from the ordina•y
course with respect to the expenditure of the Navy. I
have exceeded the estimate, and I foresaw that I should
exceed it, but the circumstances we-e such as to justify
ma in taking the course which I did." That would
have entirely satisfied him. It would have been a re-
cord of the circumstances under which the thing was
done. But the Chancellor of the Becht quer's zeal
outstripped his (Sir R. Peel's), and he said he would
bring in aBA providing for the special case. Sime
object ons, however, had arisen which be had not fore...
sr-en, to the course proposed. The object, he thought,
would be equally answered by inserting it in the gene-
ral appropriation clause, with some specific reference to
it in the preamble. That would prevent its being drawn
into a precedent, and avoid those inconveniences and
pcssib!e dangers to which the Right Hon. Gentleman,
the Speaker of the House, had so properly called their

at: cation.
The 811 went through the Committee, and the
Rouse resumed.
POOR-LAW AMENDMENT ACT.
Lord J. RUSSELL having moved the Order of the
Diy for the Committee on the Poor.law Amendment

Net,
Captain PECHELL presented a petition from a
town in Sussex,forming one of the seventeen parishes
in the Sutton Union, complaining of the Bill, and
praying that the elluse relating to the Gilbert Act
might be expunged.
Sir A. GRANT and Mr. LANGDALE presented
similar petition?, the latter being from Springfield, near

Che:t
Mr. HODGSON HINDE then rose to move that
;t be an instruction to the Committee to defi!,e the ne-
cessary rules, orders, and regulations for the manage-
ment of the poor and the government of workhouses,
and make provision for the discontinuance of the power
of 1 gis!ation now possessed by the Commissioners ;
and for confining the power of the said Commissioners
to the completion of unions, and the superintendence
and inspection of the boards of guardians. The Hon.
Member was proc( eling to address the House when
he was interrupted by
Lord JOHN RUSSELL, who said that this would
deft at the till, and therefore it caul I not be the sub-

ject of instruction to the Committee.
The SPEAKER was understood to decide that the
motion was irregular, and it was therefore withdrawn.
Mr. W. DUNCOMBE said be hoped the Noble
Lord (J. Russell) would give an assurance to the
House that he did not desire to hurry this B:ll

through its future stages before the Easter holidays.
It appeared to him to be due to Vie great body of pe-
tioners who ha I Fe:.itioued the Hot:se against the Bid,
that no unusual course should be adopted with regard
to it, and that ample time should be given to consider

its provisions after it had gone through Committce.—
(Hear, hear.) Under these eireurn-t inces he tru,te.l
the Noble L.:rd would assure the Howe that he had

no intention of hurrying the B L through belore East r.

He trutte 1 it would not get through the Committee be-

fore Easter, but if it should he trusted the Nob'e Lord

ould not press its alter stages, but would aff,,rd ample
opportunity to the House and the country to consider

its various prov:sions..

Lord F: EGERTON wished, before t'ie Speaker
left the Chair, to enter into an explanation, which he
thought was due to himself, to the N 0613 Lord, and
the Home. He had understood that there were 'lei-

tions against the Bill most numerously and respectably
signed from Manchester and Sit'ord. These petitions
were now in the course of signature, and woulil pro-
bably receive many more signatures before they here
presentcd. They were not only against -the present
811, but were also in opposition to t..e principle of the
Poor! iw Amendment Act. tie had b( ea applied to
t present these petitions, but having voted for the sc-
cund reading of the Bill on Friday night, he haa ad-
vised the petitioners to request some other Member to
present the petitions, but at the same time he stated to
them that if they still desired he should present their
petitions he would do so. At the same time he could
not but consider the intelligence he had received as an
indication of a very strong feeling on the subject in the
maaufacturing districts, at the existence of which he
was not surprised.—(Cheers.) Having had consider-
able experience of the operation of the old law in the
south of England he had come to the conclusion that
the system there adopted r.quired great alteration, and
lie thought the alteration that had been effected there
by the present law was in every respect an improve-
ment. At the same thug he regrttte i that ct,.:ee dis-
stricis differently circumstanced should have been sub-
jected to it, and thought it might be matter for consi-
deration whether it ought to be extended to districts
where circumstances did not render it absolutely neces-
sary. He trusted the Nuble Lord wou!d grant further

delay.
Lord J. RUSSELL—It was by no means his wish
to hurry the Poor-law Bill through the Housc.—
(Hear, hear.) He wished t) proceed day by day la ith
the consideration of the clauses, because in a Bill of so
much importance it was desirable to Lave as full an
attendance as possible, and the interposition of other
business tented to distract attention from it.—( Hear,
bear.) With respect to witat had been said by the
Noble Lord opposite, he did not doubt but that a nu-
merously signed petit on had been presented against the
B:11 from Manchester, but he could not allow that that
proved that the general feeling of the people in that
town was against it. On the contrary, so far as his
information went, the feeling was the other way.—
(Hear, hear.) In so la-ge a place it was always
easy to °ash] a numerous attendance at a public meet-
ing, when the !cAings of the people were roused upon
the subject of it, yet he understood that not more than
300 persons attended the meeting at which the petition
was agreed to, and that tl.e signatures to it had been
obtained by very considerable industry, and some mis-
representation.
Mr. J. Fl ELDEN could assure the Noble Lord
thA the feeling against the Bi'l r. as so strong it Man-
chest_!:-, that the Commissioners, backed by all the au-
thority of the Government, would never succeed in
putting it auto force there. It was wholly unsuited to
the manufacturing districts, and would never he adopted

in them.
Sir E. SUGDEN hoped the Noble Lord would pro-
pose some chose, providing thist aged wives and hus-
bands, when driven to the workhouse, should not be
sup- rated..—( Hear, hear). That question had much
excited the public mind, and he thought some provision
of that sort was necessary. if the Noble Lord did
not propose such a cl 'use, he (Sir E. Sudden) would
feel it his duty to do so.
Colonel WOOD said, in the Staines Union work-
house, of which he w.is an ex-officio guardian, such a
practice did not exist. The aged married people had
good rooms, with a comfortable fire—they were not
heated with warm water.
Mr. W. ELLIS said the aged poor were not so
lodged in a vast number of the unions, and he trusted
ha would receive the support of the House when he
proposed the amendment of which he had given notice.
Mr. LEADER said a very strong fee!ing prevailed
in t'ie country on the subject. The Noble Lord said
Oct there were not so many petitions presented on the
question as might be expected. He (Mr. Leader)
could account for t'..at from the manner in which peti-
tions were treated in that House—it was in fact a farce.
Tue people hal no confidence in the House. There
was no political uubjeLt on which the public had so
strong
a feeling as the question of the Poor-laws ; and
the Nohl% Lord was niiibt...ken if he imagined that the
t•
stronost feelings pcssibie would not continue to be exlai
bifed by the working classes oa that subject.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he had stated no
such thing as the Hon. Member attributed to him. He
had men ly alluded to what he heard respecting the
Manchester meeting.
Sir EDWARD KNATCHBULL wa• opposed to
the Poor-law Commissioners having the right to sum-
mon before them persons attending public meetings
who belonged to the Poor-law e,tablishments. We
understood' the Hon. Baronet to ask for some informs.
lion
o. subject.n
"3at
Lord RUSSELL said he could not then inform
.on the subject, but that he intended
into the matter, and that he would
to m
he had been Chairman
th e i
communicatekoen nnq ua ri
ther°nese fr.
Mr. SLANEY said
totoquitraeteinttobatthethcelaußsees-
oo
ff thete Committeepooresult.
Mr. as
thats abuses of the
Re-
port of that Committee showedlatr,haepsvpioasinetendatilteod
grossest of he thong .e
change was certainly necessary, an
e to give the
est nature took place under the d system.
iti Some
Noble Lord should he allowed sufficient tim
remove
tdbuociecaobnusi,deeioration, and thereby be enabled to
After a fee words from General EVANS,
Mr. W AKLEY s .id he hoped that something
would
be done with reference to the principle which the mo-
tion involved. At present the entire government of tLe
workhothes was left in Cie hands of the Commissioners.
They made whatever rules, and orders, and regulations
they pleased. The boards of guardians were so many
puppets or nonentties in their band& There was a
fact, bearing .on the subject, which lately came to his
knowledge, and which he thought it his duty to men-
Lon to the House. The circumstance involved a great
amount of 'moral guilt.—(Hear, heir.) A ease had
late!), been investigated at Shire Hall, in Nottingham-
shire, the subject of which was a pauper named Parkes.
It appeared on evidence that the man died from exhaus-
tion. The overseer and surgeon we e brought before
the Magistrates, a comiliint having been made against
them that they negltcted to do what they ought to have
done on the occasion. The surgeon stated to the Ma-