The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-24 00:00:00

IMPERIALPA/ILIENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, FRE. 23.
POOR-LAW AMENDMENT BILL.
The Earl of SHAFTESBCIRY, in the absence of the Lord
Chancellor, took hi, teat on the Woolsack at Five o'Clock.
Loid AI3ING ER presented a petition, from the Gover-
nor and Guardians of the poor of Norwich, agai3st the
Poor-law Amendment Act, and condemning some pro,.
sions contained in the Bill now before the House of COM'
moos for continuing that Act.
The CLERK having read the petition at the table,
The Marquis of NORMANDY objected to its reception
on the ground of its referring to a Bill as yet before the
oiler House.

Lori ABINGER said that the petition only inci-
dentally alluded to the Bill in the House of Commons.
But to p, event di=,euresion he would withdraw the petition.
Earl FITZ WILLIAM had a very similar petition to
present from (as we understood) the tame neighbourhood.
The petition distinctly referred to the Bill supposed to
he in progress in the other House. For his own part
he concurred in several of their objections to that measure,
and he agreed with them that the present speeal
lequired amendment in many particulars. They would not
°hie( t to the establishment of a permanent body to regulate
the administration of the Poor-laws ail over the country ;
but they thought, and in this he agreed with them, that the
Poor-law Commissioners seemed to act like most persons
in power, al if they were desirous to stretch that power
to the utmost. They had recently issued an order,
which he considered highly improper, namely, that tee
return of the guardians, when cleated, should be male
by the clerk of the union. As that officer was ge-
acrally a person a legal habits, and the guardians, on
t: c coatrpry, persons ignorant of law, the clerk would have
a avast advantage over them io the event of any dispute
aii jog tete eon him and them, or of his ac iag improperly,
Residing in the centre of the union, he would exercise
a c mend crier the election of the guardians in the remo-
test districts, Iu the Poor-law Bill provision was made
for three classes, the infirm, the insama and the infant.
The Commissioners had the power to collect these out of
the union, and provide for them according to the r
own pleasure. With respect to the insane, they were
persons rather idiotic than anything else, and he
eotertained no objection to the power of the Commis-
sioners with respect to them. But with tegard to the in-
firm, lie thought that to take them promiscuously from
under the care of those with whom they had been con-
nected would inflict a great hardship. With regard to in-
fants, he thought that their education would be more effi-
ciete when they were collected tneether in large number.
The Marquis of NORMAN BY could assure the Noble
Lord all who cre anxious for the good working of the
laea would be happy to receive suggestions for its irn-
proeement. He could not state at present what provisions
ha should introduce, but lie would give the Noble
Lord's s4g stions his very best attention.
Lord EL L ENBOROUG 11 observed that there were
many utians in which the clerk was the master of the
guardians instead of the it servant as he ought to be. His
opinion was that the whole machinery cf the Poor-
law 8.11 would fail if there was any attempt to
dim'nish the responsibility of tne guardians themselves.—
( Hear, hear.) It was only by givirg them responsibility
and power that good men would Le induced to come for-
ward and take the of& e.

Earl FITZWILLIAM entirely concurred iu the vies
expressed by the Noble Lord.
The Marquis of NORMANBY Has understood to
sta e that ht would make inquiry into the matter.
COF•YIIOLD ENFRANCIIISEMENT BILL.

Lord BROULIIIM laid on the tahle the report of the
Committee on the Copyhold Enfranchisement Bill, and
moved that the Bill, as proposed to be amended, he
ptin•ci.
DESTRUCTION OF PRORPERTYINIRELAND.
Lord BROUGHAM brought in a Bill to amend the
laws 'elating to 4-he destruction of property in Ireland.
Ile said there was in that country an Act somewhat similar
to tlra which was called in England the Riot Act.
The Lida Act was the 15th and I6th of George 111 ,
and it enabled persons whose property was injured in
rite and tumults to recover in some cases against the ba-
rony, in others against the county. But tacre we.: also
ant tt,er Act, the 19th and 20th of George 111., which for-
merly w a 3 t•upposed to apply ti all the counte,, and enat3:ed
ersons who:e property was darred by burning, or
whole catt c wee houghed, tecol,cr, under a ec.tain
account, from the barony, and above it from the county.
Now on account of the word barony used in that prrt. of the
Act, it bad recently been held that the land did not apply
to the county of the c'ty of Duhlin. Ha could not
doubt that this decision of the Judges in
land was correct according to the wording
of the Act. But neither could he think that it was the
intention of the Legislature to except the metropolis of the
country from the operation of such an Act. The obje.n
of this Bill, which he now Legged leave to propose, was to
explain the Ac., and to extend its operation to the metro-
polis and its neighbourhood.
Leave was then given to bring in the Bill.
ST. SULPICE.
_ _

The Bishop of EXETER said it would be in the recol-
lection of their Lordships that yesterday he had:referred to the
delays which had taken place in ;Tinting certain ordinances
which were laid on the t:tb!e of their Lordships' House.
Having been then informed that tho delay was caused
by the Coloni4l Office tending a fresh order to be
printed, the Noble Lord near Lim undertook to make
inquiry upon the subject, and he begged leave now to
ask him if he had done se.

Viscount DUNCANNON stated that he had ascer-
tained that the ordinance in question was a police
ordinance, and that a delay hid unavoidably taken
place in the printing of that ordinance. But he
proposed, in consideration of the delay, if it were
satisfactory to the HOLM, that the ordnance should not
be removed until an additionsl eleven days be expired.
The Bishop of EXET E R said that what was satisfactory
o him individually was of very little importance. If it were
satisfnctory to their Lordships to hear such an explantion
of such an occurrence, it would be for their Lordships to
express that satisfaction, but he (the Bishop of Exeter)
could not concur in is: For to what did that explanation
amount ? The Noble Lord stated, that on the 29:11 of
last month he laid certain ordinances on the table
of the House, and that he, at the same time, moved the
printing of these ordinances. But he adMitted that an
ordinance, which it was very important that they should
speedily receve, had not been included in the papers laid
upon their I.ordihips' table, because it was under the con-
sideraien of the Law Officers of the Crown. And bow
did her Majesty's Government propose to remedy this?
Why instead of corning down to the House with the ordi-
nince, they smuggled it in with a number of others. Would
the House submit to this gross neglect ?—( A laugh from
Viscount Duncannon). He begged their Lordships to ob-
serve the Noble Viscount laugh. Ile (the Bishop of Exeter)
wondered what he could see that was ridiculous. 'ihis
129th ordinance bad never yet been printed. The Act
of Parliament enacted that no such ordinance
should pass into a law until thirty days hat been
allowed for Parliament to express its opinion upon it.
He thought the explanation of the Noble Viscount wri-
thing but satisfactory. This was a matter which ought
not to be treated lightly. It was a very serious departure
from teat ingenueusness which the House bad a right to
expect horn her Majesty's Government when they p!aeed
confidence in them. The Government had profesiei to lay
on the table on Jan. 29 all the ordinances which they aiked
their Lordships to puss, bee it now appeared that they had
In,iliatri n
c::to e a
n hte say
adliti
kept back one. Were their Lordships satisfied ? With re-
spect
no htek;i waso
,
willingetii to allow this
to the course which the Noble Viscount had pre-
the other
ordirances also, sufficient time to allow their Lordships
pored, he understoovdisocr
I:
t.; consider it—that way, that he would allow the ordinance
to remain on the table the same number if days as had
olnr etho
Noble
Leen lest by that transaction. Did he understand that
tic Noble Viscount was willing to allow the House an
opportunity cf addrelsing her Maje.ey not to carry that or-
dinance into effect by reckoning the thirty days from the
Itith of the present month.
Viscount MELBOURNE:
ought to have been laid on the table with the others_.
that an irregularity had taken place, it was impossible to
, deny • but when the Right Rev. Prelate charged her Ma-
jesty's Government with melt of ingenuousness in their
meted in this transaction, he must say, that ;
it appeared to
him, he was greatly exaggerating the irregularity that had
taken place. And (said the Noble Viscount, in great
wernith, and turning round to the Bishop of Exeter) I
heve always observed that persons are most apt to charge
others v ith those defects into which they bre most in the
habit cf falling themselves.—e( Hear, hear.) With rsspeet
to the ordinance in qee'Aion, it was one relating to the
police, and one to which it Wes not at all probable the
Right Rev. Prelate would call tl e attention of the House.
It was desirable that the spirit of the Act of Parliament
should be complied with, so ,is to give the House the
fullest opportunity oft onsidering the subject. The ques-
tion was if the Act of Parliament had been complied with.
IC the ordinance had laid on the table for thirty days, it
would be impossible by ally agreement to give the address
of that House the power of preventing her Majesty from
giving her assent
to the allowance of the ordinance, but if
the ordinance had not laid on the table thirty days,
then it was competent to the Right Rev. Prelate before
that time had d ipsed to move an address to her Majesty
PSI the subject. For himself he considered the thirty days
to be reckoned from the day on which it was laid on the
table.
The Bishop of EXETER—Thiity days from the 16th
instant.
Lord DUNCANNON was understood to assent.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said the intention was
to giec the Home a full opportunity if considering their
ordinances. That has all that was required, and the
only question which their Lordsltipe had to decide war,
Lad the Act been complied wiih. If less time than usual
Ihad been Eisen, the R:get Re% erend Pi elate would make
his motion a few dan s sooner.
The Liiihoe of EXETER--Is it understood her Ma.