The Sun.
London, England, 1841-03-19 00:00:00

had already been investigated before a Commis-
sion, composed of . parties whose opinions he
thawlit were very likely to have more weight
than the Report of any Committee of that House.—
(Hear, hear.) But he would state one or two reasons
why he thought the appl-,:ntaicEt of a Committee of
that Huse would be a most inexpedient pro-
ceedirg. One of the objects which it was pro-
posed to ievestigate was the defence of the coast.
He could not see what advantage would be derived
from the Committee taking evidence as to the best
places for disembarkation, or from the publication
of that evidence. There would be upon the Com•
mittee a great many Members who were con-
nected with local interests, and who would

advocate tae claims or diffe'rent places; extending
along the whole coast. He thought that the appoiot-
went of a Committee would tend greatly to defeat the
object. He admitted that there was one part
of the Report of the Commissioners upon which
there was some doubt, and upon which it rn' ht
be necessary to have further information. It was

thought that the object might be effected at a smaller
expense. If it cculd be done for a quarter of a million
iustesd of two millions, all psi tics must desire such a
result ; but he thought. that that saving would be much
better effected by the proper cflicers. He t-ustcd that
his Hoc. Friend, upon the assurance that the informa-
tion which Le possessed should be referred to the

ccrs appoirted by the Treasury, would not reudcr it

necessary to go to sz division.

M. MAC KINNON wished to Ely a few
words in wiser to the RiyAt Honourat)le Gentle-
man the Chaneaor of the Fellequer. The Right
Gentleman o'difete.l to the Committee beeau c
only gcr etal reatoes had been given for its appointment.
He would beg ie o t.) call^the Itght
Geofeman's attcttion to one point, which he (Mr.
INl‘l(innon) thought should he a cause of his -
mitt;ng the Committee to be appointed is
the pres. et case. It was wall known that
along the coact of Sus,ex shingles coll,c:ed
in great quantities at the entrance of Larb,m,s.
There were two th,scriptions of harbours—one was called
e hack-water harbour, the other a deep-water harbour.
Of the former dewription of harbour there were two
on the ccae of Kent—Dover and Renr,gate. Tim e
harLurs were e;cnescd out by the backwater, which

it retired tiwt the shiag!es, aml in consr...

(pence a deposit was :mid° «t the entrance
of the hArbour, which fo!med what was c.died
s bar, which In a fox years would accurnu-
I.to to such &ze as to render the harbour utterly uvl?ss.
Tiae other clescr;pti:,n of hart-our—the deep water—

was such us was found I.t Dul.Lary or li,ngstowo,
outside Dublin. :Now, he would leave. it to
the R:ght lion. Gentleman what er or not it was
worth wiole to as,ert,in which of these two descrip-
tions of harbours should be made on the coast of Su,
tex. The s,-ttiing of that poiLt migl:t save the country
nullious, while the expeas2 of a Committee was nothing.

Ile could see no obectien whatever to the aseertainiog
of that poiet. They would thereby get the opinions
of engineers, who were at variance on the subject, which
of the two descriptions of harbours ought to be adopted.
He must repeat, that he thought it worth while to ap-
point a Committee: to inquire into the subject. He did
not state his own opinions mertly, on the subject of tl,e
difference of harbours ; what he had stated arose from
a conversation he had held with persons well acquainted
with the subject.
Captain PECFIELL thought that the subject was
of great importance to the maritime interests of the
country. Tile Right lion. Gentleman obj-cted to
granting a Committee, because be thought his Hot:.
Friend ought to have brought before the House resolu-
tions conformabie to the Report of the Commission.
But he (Captain Pee.hcll) maintained thet that Com-
mittee would be of the greatest advantage. It would
draw from engineers, and others concerned in the sub-
ject, very important evidence. He was really sur-
prised that the Chancellor of the Exchequer should
oppose the motion, which had met with his cordial
support.
Mr. DARBY thought the Report of the Commis-
sioners, which he held in his hand, fully justified the
motion of his Hon. Friend the Member for Dover.
The Commissioners reported that Ramsgate Harbour
was the best on the south. eastern coast, although they
said it had no natural advantage?. It had no
backwater, nor was it protected from any• wind
but a land-wind. It offered no protection from winds
from the sea. Yet that was the only harbour

for the protection of the shipping on that
coast. It was acknowledged to be wholly
inadequate, yet the Right Honourable the Chancellor
of the Exchequer refused a Committee. He re-
fused a Committee—was he prepared to say that
the Government would act upon the Report of
the Covnmissicncrs? acknowledged that har-
bours were necessary would be say that the
Government would construct them ? If he was
not prepared to say so, why refuse inquiryy
Could the Hon. Member put his band upon the
Report, and show any thing in it so practical
that it could be carried into execution,
within half a century P And if not, the Commis-
sioners were at a I,ss to know on what grounds they
should report. He (Mr. Darby) thought there could be
no stronger reason for assenting to the motion.
Sir GEORGE STRICKLAND regretted .that

ie Chancellor of the Exchequer had nit expressed

himscli more distinctly on this most important subje.t.
The question was whether our harbours were to be re-
paired by public expense or by local exertions. It au
idea got abrcad that every case of shipwreck was to
be a ground for a grant of pub]. c money for repairing
our harbours, from that moment all individual exertion
would cease. A few years ago there had be,:n3 a greet
contest, in a Committee of the House, whether certain
harbours required the assistance of the public purse,
but it was at last decided that they had no sufficient
c!airn, though a similar claim on the part of two other
harbours was allowed. The country ought to know at
once whether any aid would be afforded by the Govern-
ment, or the Government ought to take all harbours
of refuge under their especial care.
Mr. PLUMPTRE thought his Hon. Friend the

Member for Dover was perfectly justified in the course

he had adopted. He would have been perfectly willing
to have left the matter in the hands of the Goverc-
ment, if it had been stated that they intended doing
anything ; but having heard no such statement, .he
must support the motion.
Mr. C. WOOD thought the House must see that
the question which had been Etirted by the two Hon.
Gentlemen who raised the discussion was very different
from that which had been discussed. The question
argued was that the country ought in some way or
other to provide harbours of refuge on different parts of
the coast. The Committee now moved for was to in-

quire into that which had already been inquired into.
The Commissioners had distinctly expressed au opinion
upon the subject, and the hest answer to local interests
was that they had given a decided opinion against
any existing harbour. In their Report they stated,
" It is evident thero is no harbour at the present mo-
ment between Sheerness and Selsey Bell which
can be considered an available harbour of re-
fuge at all times of tide, or which possesses the
capability of being rendered efficient for that purpose
by any improvement or alteration that can be made."
The Commissioners then proceeded to consider how an
efficient harbour might be made, and they stated that
the most important situations which called for the atten-
tion of the Government and the country were these—
the first was at. Dover, the second at Beachey Head,

and the third at the mouth of the Thames. The ques-
tion, therefore, was, whether the Government were
prepared to take up one of these plicei ; but be did
not Lee in what respect further or more detailed infor-
mation coull be obtained. In the same way, if any
private company was induced to construe t the harbour,
they could employ their own engineer ; but, so far as
any general vivws of the subject were concerned, he
thought the fullest information was contained in the
Re pm t.

Sir R. PEEL did not see what advantage would
accrue from the appointment of a Committee to revise
the Report of the Comtnizsionem It appeared to
him a moot able one, and perfect' y satisfactory.
If they appointed a Committee, they must either
exclude local influence, or admit a large share
of it. If it was excluded how could the Committee be
better able to judge of the subject than experienced
a heta in-
stance, nautical men ? If local interest was admitted he did
not think
iCarogmhnotittee would, be a very harmonious
ownoeu,ladndwiltliwngoluyldadbeiniat battle for* constituents. For in-
was
impossible
nhtheetadtgipedreonttoehhst:eittohani think the lion. Member for Hastings
Theye shuapdergiootrittyi
coifhftohreinft?ortu ooff,
the highest
Ist authoritiesge
o f
un-
dertaken b
and extensive
was
e rsubject,nme and
Oaring thee n
Gt hoev
they would make this or that harbour. It
purpose, 9,14 tailing
Y anayeliocal interest. It was of too important
such a work could be properly un-
of these satatraeter, and ail the Government had
a right to say atthey were ready to construct one
He (Sir 11.11
of the e4eose wohciatit
lions for thatharbours, setting apart 1,500,0001. or two mil.
sioners to name the best i upon the Commis-
yi.ils'o r
efficientsuch anc
oonb,jtercute, re-
gardlessol
give
would occasion.
iroth.e contingency of
havePtel) thought it would
be an immense advantage toeither ore or two
really efficient harbours
in time of peace.
war as well as to
itanceist.ually, and
If the House determined to eonstrtuent
that they would construct them ,ffeni, he hoped
case at Dover and
~ate, spend
200,000/. or 300,000/. without reaping any advantage.
state of the revenues of
In the present sta the country, be
not, as was the
could not press upon her Majesty's Government a hasty
adoption of this measure ; but, et the same time, hey
hoped that the House would not make a declaration
which would imply thatr the object was not a desir-
able one.
Mr. RICE replied.
So- ,Lgr;rs were then orderiA to withdraw, and 0 0
i House divided; whet: there appe,tred—
ng

it the leC,tiOt% .............• lug
Aga.iht ;L ...........................
Majority against the m0ti0n,...---x-64