The Sun.
London, England, 1847-05-08 00:00:00

from Ilawick, through the valley of the Esk to Langholm
down t ) Carlisle, whence the line j 'iced the Caledonian.
The gra Bents were generally good. The country between
the line and the Caledonian was of an impassable charaet,r.
There was rather a steep gradient to the west of Netherby.
but
the that route was pursued in consequence of
request of Sir James Graham. Ills property
was traversed for about eleven miles, and he supported
the line. The independent station at Carlisle, near the
cattle market, was likely to be a very important accommo-
dation to the town—the general terminus was already small
enough. The character of the country between Ilawicle and
Carlisle, in his opinion, justified the construction of a line.
The portion from Langholm to Carlisle would principally
depend on local traffic ; but without that link he did not think
any company would make a line down to Langholm. The
line from Ha wick to Carlisle would be best worked by the same
coral ly that possessed the line to the north of that up to
Ediiiburgh, as there the main source of traffic arose by the
connexion of the line with Selkirk, Gal-ishie:s, &e.
Mr. COCKBURN cross-examined the witnesses for the Ca-
ledonian.
The Committee adjourned till itie3+lmy.

COMMITTEES oo PRIVATE BILLS
This S ,iANSEA DOCKS.
Committee up to its rising was engaged with heating
evidence on behalf of this scheme. No decision was given.
BIRKENHEAD COMMISSIONERS DOCK ACTS
AM ENDM ENT.
This Committee mat again yest‘rday at 12 o'clock ;
kir
. Ilavter in the chair.
Wallasey
(abject of the Bill is to construct a sea-wall along
"WV Pool. The preamble has been passed; but several
days have been occupied with the clauses of the Bill, and
with various amendments, which were not completed when
the Committee rose, at four o'clock. until Monday.

STANDING ORDERS COMMITTEE.

MANCHESTER AND SOUTHAMPTON.
This 13111 was thrown out by the Standing Orders Com-
inittee yPster,'av, several material mistakes having been
prated in the sections.

IMPERIAL PA RLIAMENT

HOUSE OF 1,(1K DS,
Ii
, iveTh
0,L4 e onn CIIANCELLf oh took his seat on the 7.
the Wo&sack at
Fl
Me
gce;s from the Commons brought up several Bills,
'Which were ordered to lie on the table.
POOR RELIEF (IRELAND)—CONINITvENEE.,
the
On the motion of the Marquis of L A iNsD ,_
order of the day for resuming the con-ideration of the Poor
t
Relief Bill in Committee was read, and their Lordships went
into Committee.
The Earl of CLANCARTY wished to ask a question in
"ntexion w:th what had fallen from a Noble Lord. It had
been said that the accommodation in unions and workhouses
'Was such that out-dour relief would be very little required. He
(the Earl of Clancarty) begged to ask whether, under the 4th
clause of the Bill, the Commissioners were to supporta, relieving
officer who should have nothing to do?
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said the clause was ex-
ceedingly simple; it gave the Commissioners power to ap-
point persons to dispense relief in particular districts. Out-
door relief was only intended to
curnstances. be given under special cir-
-(1-lear.) For instance, where impotent poor
dispense the necessary
required relief, it would be necessary to appoint persons to
relief.
The Earl of CLANCARTY then proposed the omission of the sth clause, which provided for the relief of destitute persons
'tinder peculiar circumstances, and the substitution of another,
empowering the Commissioners to construct and aid fever hos-
pitals. He said his object was not to curtail the means of substan-
tial relief to those w
Mass ho stood in need of it, but to protect another
!_ who would be much injured by the Bill as it stood,
_y nely, the industrious persons for whom the medical charities
oflreland were established ; by the aid of such institutions
k ailing persons would be afforded relief until they were in
I fit state to labour for their subsistence.—( Hear, hear.)
4Pyroposing this amendment, he was testing the desire of the
' , u ernrnent to afford relief to the Irish people through the
~., Itledturn of a Medical Relief Bill. The present Fever Bill
isisnoliulidar terminate in November, and therefore he wished to
time s. upon the Government to promote a measure for a
. ,
PurPose. which might come into operation
i'Mi. N at its termination : thus they might lav the foundation of
efficient medeal charities in -Ireland. It was because he
~.,,
..,,:tii. theo„,pu.rgohptostehdeitcslaoutuseisswix.ld interfere with these charities that
:•pi- , . _
was
Thep. Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that he thought it
3!, 1
.neeessary }hat the clause should remain in the Bill for its
, • ',j' etticient operation.
'...:' +'`: Lord MONTEAGLE said, that as far as the Bill was in-
•,,,' .tended to be a practical remedy for the working of the Poor-
:-4 ' law, he thought the amendments should be of a permanent
'tk f• character,
',)),,1,1,4„,,,i1l
~.__Thee Earl of WICKLOW said, that the vote to which they
carne last night limited the operation of the whole Bill as, he
Understood, to 1845. But in fact the whole matter was in such
i state of confusion, that no two men could agree as to the na-
ture or effect of the vote which they had come to last night.—
(Hear, hear and cheers )
Lord MONTEAGLE denied there was any -confusion
whatever, unless thecontusion of ideas of the Noble Earl him-
self,

„The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that after a most care-
ful consideration of the vote last night, it was difficult to say
what part of the Bill was to be temporary and what part per-
Manent.
After_a_few words from Lord Al ONTEAGLE.
ElaastdevtienitiEri GREY said he perfectly comprehended his amendment
g it was to make the Bill a temporary measure.
toutirth,es Noble. '
Lord had given notice of amendments applying
make merely of the Bill, and these amendments went to
ee parts permanent. The Noble Lord now pressed these
amendments to night ; exhibi ing that his object last ni ht
was to dash the bill at its earliest course. He was successful,
but. the Bill dispite of every manoeuvre was too high in the po-
pular esteem that it should fail.
a:IFITZWILLIAM disapproved of the course of the
n.bol Earl's remarks ; for it was very possible that, on a Bill
ni -,,,general import Noble Lords might differ, anddiffer consci-
Then'
.uSly. The Bill was evidently affected by last night's amend
1;), in whole. It had been determined that the Bill should
ilernporary, although the limited time was not yet inserted.
totheir Lordships that he intimated last night his wish
-eke the general Bill temporary and parts of it permanent.
ST. M GEP ANS felt it due to himself to say that he
distinctly understood. the Noble Lord to have intimated as
Much last night.
Lord CAMPBELL said the clause would be a new source
of difficulty, and would admit. of so many different interpreta-
tions that a judge would find it most difficult to arrive at a de-
cision. He hoped his Noble Friend would consent to pro-
pose the clause merely as a temporary one.
Lord MONTEAGLE declared that the meaning of the
clause might be easily interpreted.
The Mai quis of CLANRICARDE said the amendment
would promote the confusion which had been already intro-
duced into the Bill.
The Earl of CLANCARTY consented to propose the clause
as a temporary one.
After a few words from the Marquis of WESTMEATII,
Lord STANLEY said the Noble Marquis opposite (the Mar-
quis of Lansdowne) had expressed a wish, which he said was
very near his heart, that they should commence business with-
out any unnecessary conversation. He would not add to the
mischief that might already have been done by any de-
sultory conver.ation which might have taken place,
and would confine himself to the sixth clause.
He would not put their Lordships to the trouble of dividing
Upon the amendment if it did not appear to meet with their
concurrence, but he believed that if it were adopted it would
be found to have a most beneficial effect. The Noble Lord
concluded by moving that the following clause be substituted
for clause 6 :—” And be it enacted that in every electoral
division of each union there shall be a relief committee ; which
relief committee shall consist of the guardians of such union
resident or having rateable property within such electoral di-
vision, together with the (two) highest ratepayers therein, not
being guardians of such union ; and every such committee
shall meet weekly, on some day other than that of the meeting
of the board of guardians; and every such relief committee
shall annually elect a chairman ; and every relieving officer
Who shall be appointed as hereinbefore directed, shall at
such weekly meeting report to such relief committee any
ease of sudden or urgent net essity, and shall have power,
under an order signed by the chairman, or such person
reshall be, pro teinpore, acting as chairman, of such
ndre-
Committee,.,n to give provisional relief in such case of
a,_ui and urgent necessity, either by an order of
orn ssion to the workt ouse or fever hospital of the • union, pro-
vided there be room therein respectively, and by conveying any
destitute poor person thereto, it necessa: y, or by affording such
Poor person immediate and temporary relief in food, lodging, or
medical attendance, until the next ordinary meeting of the
board of guardians, at which meeting he shall report the case,
and the nature and cost of the relief so afliirded, in such form
and manner as the Poor- law Commissioners shall prescribe,
and after such report shall give no further relief otherwise than
by direction of the board of guardians in the case so reported ;
and the guardians of the union shall furnish the chairman of
such relief committee with the necessary funds for affording
relief in manner aforesaid, and for the relief of those destitute
Poor persons to whom relief shall be granted by the board of
guardians, at such times and in such manner as the Poor-law
Commissioners shall determine and direct."
The Marquis of LAN SDO W NE hoped the Noble Lord would
leave the matter in the hands of her Majesty's Government.
He thought the object of the Noble Lord might be attained by
enabling boards of guardians of large unions to appoint com-
mittees of their own bodies to exercise the cheek which he re-
quired. ,
Lord STANLEY said that the proposition of the Noble
Marquis was so nearly what he himself previously had proposed,
that he had no difficulty in acquiem log in such an arrangement.
After a tea words from the Marquis of LANSDOWNE,
Lord STANLEY said the only object which he had in view
was to give the board of guardians at. in'ermediate control
over the relieving officer, in order that the publlc interests
might be protected.
Clause 6 was then agreed to, and ordered to stand part of
the Bill.
On clause even being read,
Lord BROUGHAM considered that the latitude granted to
paupers was by far too great, they w, uld soon become so well
off as obe envie. by the landlords. His great objection to the
measure arose trom the fact of his being unable to see, the
way in which it was to be carried out. The Government did
rot follow the old principle, of resting while they were in the
dark ; but they said, " because we are so let us go on."—
( Laughter.) Because we do not see our way, let us do some-
thing," It was often much better to leave what was not quite
well, alone, because meddling with it made it very often much
'Worse. The more he consi lered the question, tie more he was
impressed with the necessity of Government not interfering in
the manner which was proposed to do by the clause.
Lord LANSDOWNE said that the Act did net confer a
right to relief. Individual cases of hardship might arise, and
the Only way to remedy it was by leaving the right to relief
discretionary in the poor-law guardians and the Poor•law
CoMnaissioni re
Clauses 7 and 8 were then agreed to.
On Clause 9,
, Earl FITZ WILLIAM moved the amendment, of which he
"41 given notice, to the effect, that the surrender of the
quarter acre should take place to the landlord, or some properly
authorised officer.
Earl GREY said that the principal clause as proposed by
his Noble Friend purported that if a tenant were in
possession of a quarter of an acre of land and a
house, he should not be entitled to any relief
under the Poor-law Act, and if he were obliged to
surrender, he should surrender the entire holding, for it was
~,clietahrolyutetvhide aiettotuhsaet, if the tenant chose to surrender the land
lord if he were obliigt ewdoutlod
abeeeeaptgtrhe aet injusticesutreoder toof the lal
annd,-1
without the house. If there were to be a surrender, there
ought therefore to be a surrender of the whole of the holding.
Lor.IBROUGHAM was quite opposed. to the whole principle
of the Bill, and he did not believe that any arrangement could
P(''''blY be devised for the granting out-door relief without work-
ing a gre it evil somewhere,
FITZ WILLIAM said, that his Noble and Learned
friend appeared to have quite mistaken the character of the
ra
tttetasoufrree,dfourciintgwiot.uld not have the effect of increasing pauperism,
The
the question being put,
he Earl of St. GERMANS said that the whole operation
VI
theßill would be oppressive, for if a ram were in the po-.-
;