The Sun.
London, England, 1847-05-21 00:00:00

FACTORIES BILL.

The Earl of CLARENDONpresented a petition from
Halifax against the Factories Bill.

REPORTS.

The :Marquis of LA.N9/30 WNE laid the second
report from the Relief Commissioners in Ireland, the
report of the Commissioners on Lunatic Asylums (Ire-
land) for 1846, and other reports, on their Lordships'
table.

The NOBLE MARQUIS also moved, that the House, at
its rising, do adjourn till Friday week.—Agreed to.
CLERGY OFFENCES BILL.

The Bishop of LONDON, who was but indistinctly
heard in the gallery, moved the second reading of
this Bill. He said that alteration in the existing
law was allowed on all hands to be absolutely necessary.
Lie himself submitted a Bill last session to persons who
were well acquainted with the state of the law eccle-
siastical and common which was intended to effect some
of these alterations. The Bill of this year referred
those cases of offences in the doctrines and opinions of
the clergy to the usual, the ancient court, where
those sat on the bench who were acquainted with the eccle-
siastical and the common law. It proposed likewise an
alteration in the trial of a clergyman before the bishop.
Hitherto that had been conducted without the intervention
of a jury. Now, however, there was a constituted and
organized body in the Church, the canons, and canons
residentary, including the archdeacons; and in case there
should be no canons residentiary, the rural deans, who
should be a jury, with power to the accused
of challenging two of the jury, and likewise the next
two that should be appointed in room of these by the
bishop. The Bill, likewise, provided against the
suspension of accusations over a clergyman's head
for a length of time,—it provided that no
person should have power to prefer a charge against
a clergyman after five years subsequent to the
alleged occurrence, except the bishop. He had
stated to their Lordships his views with regard
to this Bill. It was not so arbitrary as the measure
under which the clergy now laid, for, under the old Jaw
they might be brought to the bar of the court without any
assistance from either their brethren or counsel. They
might be now brought before the court assisted by their
brethren, who would naturally be inclined to protect them,
and by experienced lawyers. He would attend as far as
was consistent with the main principle of the Bill to any
suggestion for its alteration. There was nothing in the
Bill contrary to the spirit or constitution of the Church
or clergy, or to the principles of justice, either civil or
ecclesiastical. Re only desired to give to the clergy
that protection which the law as it now stood did not
give.

Lord BROUGHAM (who was nearly inaudible) was
not prepared to deny that some such measure as the
one proposed by the Right Rev. Prelate was necessary.
Cases of the most scandalous description had come
before him is the Court of Queen's Bench which
would have come completely under the operation of this
law. He was, however, far from saying that the whole of
this measure ought to be carried into effect,and he wished
shortly to state two obj, ctiouable points to which he wished
to direct the attention of their Lordships. The deputies
might be chosen by the Crown, and indeed there was
nothing to limit the choice of them ; but, in the first
place, such a court was not a regular, constant,
or permanent court, and it could only meet as a
distinct court every time any offence was committed.
There were some provisions to which he could not give
his adhesion. He would be anxious that the Bill should
go into Committee, and they would then be able to see
what beneficial alterations they could make. He cer-
tainly was, however, of opinion that the clause giving a
right of challenge was also defective.
The Bishop of EXE I'ER said that when the ecclesi-
astical court was originally constituted, it was in-
tended to be strictly and purely a court of appeal in
ecclesiastical matters. It was not a matter of
blame to those that sat in the other law courts that
they should be incompetent to adjudicate upon ecclesi-
astical matters when they had not received the
necessary education upon ecclesiastical subjects. The
Act of Henry the Eighth, giving power to
the law courts to deal with ecclesiastical ques-
tions, was oppa ed to the spirit of the Constitution.
He rejoiced in the hope of his Noble and Learned
Friend applying his strong and powerful mind to
amending the Bill. But he thought that to leave the
doctrines of the Church of England to the decision of a
single mind was injudicious and impracticable, and was
of opinion that a court of divines should be appointed
to try cases of this sort, and decide what
the doctrines of the Church of England were
Any measure to be passed ought to be an effective mea-
sure. The Bishops were under a s:rict law of discipline.
They were tried by the Archbishop, with six Bishops
as assessors.

The LORD CHANCELLOR said he could not feel
very confident of the result of the measure which hal
just been brought in. A measure which had been
brought in by himself, with the consent of
one of the Right Reverend Prelates on the
front bench (London), but it was thrown out because
of the opposition of the Right Rev. Prelate who had
spoken last. It seemed, however, that all parties now
agreed, and that Right Rev. Prelate with them, to com-
plain of those bad effects which that measure was in-
tended to remedy. Not only would the existence of a
court of appeal operate beneficially upon individuals, but
it would exercise a wholesome effect upon those who ad-
minister justice. Those who know the matter were
well acquainted with the fact that no court could be so
efficiently constituted as not to make the judges of the
same perform their duties better by the knowledge that
they were under the jurisdiction of another court.
The conclusion of the Lord Chancellor's speech was
quite inaudible in the gallery.

- The Bishop of LONDON said ho was prepared to
adopt any system that would work beneficially.
After a few words in explanation from Lord
BROUGHAM,
Lord CAMPBELL replied. He said there was al-
ways a degree of suspicion about the fairness in clerical
trials, and the common law judges and doctors of civil
law. The Bill before the House left it very much in the
same state as it was.

The Bishop of OXFORD said there was great
necessity of interposing by a stringent law not to
convict the innocent but to protect the inno-
cent by convicting those who were really guilty.
—(Hear.) Clergymtn felt often a great reproach
lay upon them, if there was an impure member of
their body, whom no law and no conviction could reach.
He wished, especially, to press this up:m the attention
of the Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack, and
his colleagues.
After a few words from Lord BROUGHAM,
The Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be
committed this day forto4;ht,
Earl FITZWILLIAM then moved for an account
from each rateable district (whether union, electoral
division, or otherwise) of the rates struck, levied, and
in arrear, under the provisions of the Act for the tem-
porary relief of destitute per. ons in Ireland ; also
accounts of the number of porsons, distinguishing males
and females, adults, and children, to be relieved in each
such district, accordin' to those provisbna of the said
Act by which lists of such persons are to be made
within each electoral division ; also return of the esti-
mates (made by the relief committees of each electoral
division) of the sums needed from time to time for the
purchase, &c., of food, under the provisions of clause
of said Act ; and also a siatement of the rate per cent.
of the rates, whether struck or levied, upon the valuation
of the district according to the poor law valuation.
After a few words from Lord MOUNTCASHEL,
Earl GREY said he had no objection to the returns.
The motion was then agreed to.
ARMY SERVICE BILL.
The report of the Army Service Bill, with amend-
ments, was brought up and agreed to.
NAVAL PRISONS BILL.
yw reason outlod
believe
liev madee would to the
operate
principle,
beneficially. which
Earl of AUCKLAND, in moving the second
reading of this Bill, said he did not anticipate that any
eobjectionver
hat!,
any objections were made
he should b e glad to to the details of the measure,
consider them in Committee. Be-
hficihalhlye. l