The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-04 00:00:00

THP SUN, LONDON, TfIURSDAy MORNING, MARCH 4, 1847.

iv,tild move, as an amendment, that the sum should be 3,0001.
! cr a .rum, instead of 4,5001.
Alt Hos. Pstorale,Ton, whose name we could not catch,
s clod, d the amendment.
The CHAIRMAN said that he thought the sum of 2,5001. at
present allowed to the directors, was a most inefficient sum.
—( Hear, hear.) He would speak frankly, it would not be
supposed that a sum of one or two hundred per year could
tempt him to do anything that was unworthy of him. Be
considered himself as a senior partner in a corcern where
4,000,000/. of property was to be taken care of, and more
than that, it was not only to be taken care of, but employed
advantageously for the interests of the bank, and it was their
constant care and anxiety that a suns of 80,000/.
was drawn as profit from the paid up capital
of the company, instead of a sum et 30,0C.0/.,
which it worth' only be worth if invested in the Funds.—
(Hear, hear.) He did not think that the proposed Wm of
4,500/. was too much remuneration for the directors, espe-
cially as the number of the directors was to be increased.
.Mr. Mattpsmtv said, that after the speech of the Chairman
he should withdraw his amendment, arid would cordially
support the original motion, rrovided the sum were placed
is the hands of the directors to divide among themselves as
they thought fit.
Mr. WI Haw' proposed as an amendment that a sum of
3,5001. be paid to the directors instead of 4,500/.
The CHAIRMAN said he must say that he felt considerably,
hurt by the manner in which the proposition had been re-
ceived.—(Hear, hear.) He would, however, proceed to put
the amendment.
A PROPRIETOR said it was a most miserable exhibition to
be squabling about a paltry few hundreds per annum to the
director,•„by whose services it was that the company had
a reserve fund of 100,0001., and to whose exertions they owed
their present prosperous state.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. LEVY thought that the sum proposed was quite little
enough for the services of such men as the directors of the
company. He would, therefore, support the original mo-
tion.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. WIsHAW then withdrew his amendment, and the ori-
ginal resolution was agreed to.
The CHAIRMAN returned thanks.
The thanks of the meeting were then unanimously voted
to James W. Gilbart, Esq., the general manager, and the
other officers of the bank, for their zealous and active ser-
vices in promoting the interests of the bank.
J. W. GILBAB.T returned thanks on behalf of himself
and the other officers of the bank.
The CHAIRMAN stated that the dividend and bonus would
be payable on the 10th of March inst.

Mr.
M TITE moved that the thanks of the meeting be pre.
sented to D. Saloman, Esq., for his able and courteous con.
duct in the chair.

Mr. LEVY seconded the motion, which was carried by ac
clamation.

The CHAIRMAN returned thanks, and the meeting then
broke up.

DESTITUTION IN IRELAND AND
SCOTLAN I).

It affords us real gratification to lay before our
readers the following correspnrich.lice :
" Wesleyan Centenary Hall and Mission Howe,
Bishopsgate-stn et Within, London, Feb: 26.
"TO THE COMMITTEE OF THE BRITISH ASSOCIATION
FOR THE RELIEF OF EXTREME DISTRESS IN IRE-
LAND AND SCOTLAND.
"Gentlemen—We respectfully take the liberty of
informing you that, in the benevolent ;Arens now
wilting by your association, and by others similarly
engaged for the relief of our destitute fellow : jeets in
In land and Scotland, the Wesleyan Methodists of this
country have felt a most lively interest. That interest
there is reason to believe they have rwisnl!'e,ted by indi-
vidually contributing in common with r!ypective
neig,hb-urs and friends to the general suhsetiptions
op, ned in various parts of the kingdom, as well Ls in this
metropolis, for the purpose of mitigating the awful cala-
mity with which it has pleased Divine Providence to
visit us. But in order that no available means in their
power might be neglected for augmenting ►he charitable
funds which this exigency so largely requires, it was
further resolved to recommend that congregational col
lectiols should be made in all the Wesleyan chapels as
soon as might be practicable. To a great extent this
re.cemrnendation has been most cheerfully adopted.
Collections, aided by some additional private contribu•
tions, have already been transmitted to a central com-
mittee in London, amounting at present to nearly
13,0001. That committee has immediately proceeded
in the execution confided to their discretion, to direct a

first distribution of grants in nid.of several associations

and other agencies which were deemed most likely to
secure an efficient and impartial accomplishment of the
object in view; and we have now the pleasure of tender-
ing to the acceptance of the British Association the sum
of 5,000/., as a donation to the funds under its manage
went, in the full persuasion that its operations have
been, and will continue to be, judiciously and ably di-
re3ted, and that its influence with her Majt,sty's Govern-
ment, and amongst its own subordinate agents in
Ireland and elsewhere, will be so employed as to pi event
as far as possible the unworthy intrusion of any sects
rian partialities or antipathies. and to secure to 'ufferers
of every class and denomination a fair share and propor
lion to the amount and urgency of their distress, of
audience, attention, and relief. This respectful intima-
tion the Wesleyan central committee will take the
liberty of conveying to the other associations or agen-
cies to which they may offer similar assistance for the
prosecution of their respective plans on behalf of that
committee.—We have the honour to be, Gentlemen,
" Your very obedient servants,
(Signed) " THOMAS FARMER, Treasurer.

ELLIAIT HOOLE, Sub -Treasurer."
" BRITISH ASSOCIATION F. .R THE RELIEF OF THE EX-
TREME DISTRESS IN IRELAND AND SCOTLAND.
" Committee-room, South Sea House,
" Feb. 27, 1847.
" Gentlemen—On behalf of tha committee of the
British Association for the Relief of Extreme Distress
in Ireland and Scotland, it is my duty to tender to you,
as representing the body of Wesleyan Methodists of this
country, our grateful acknowledgments for your muni-
ficent contributions to the funds which are intrusted to
our administration. And lam desirous at the same time

to assure you of the cordial and unreserved concurrence
of the committee in the generous and enlightened views
expressed by you in the letter which hai accompanied

that contribUtion.
" The duties in which this committee are now engaged
have not been undertaken by it lightly or unadvisedly.
%Ve clearly perceived from the commencement the serious
resp.insibilities which would rest upon us, and the diffi-
culties by which we should be surrounded. But we fe:II
confident that the British public would exhibit a libera-
lity commensurate with the magnitude of the emergency,
and that it would judge with kindness and consideration
the exertions of those who should undertake to bear the
heavy anxieties and to make the sacrifice of time, and
personal engagement necessarily incident to the 'dis
charge of such a trust. The communications which
reach us daily from various quarters, and most especially
the donation of 5,000/. by the body of ti.e Wesleyan Me-
thodists, and the terms in which it has been conveyed to
us, afford us the most encouraging assurance that we
shall not be disappointed in our anticipations.
" Thus supported, we shall cheerfully persevere in
our exertions, endeavouring to administer the trust re-
posed in us in such a manner as may best evince our
deep sense of humiliation under the severe calamity
with which it has seemed fit to Almighty God to visit
our beloved country, and our solemn conviction that
such national inflictions ought to extinguish altogether
those unfortunate differences, whether they be sectarian
antipathies or political dissensions, by which mankind
are too easily disturbed. The field of Christian benevo-

lence, so feria it depends on the example and influence
of this committee, shall be preserved sacred from the
intrusion of unworthy jealousies, and all the offices
which arise out of sympathy with the desolate and
afflicted shall be discharged by us with strict impar-
tiality and in the pure spirit of universal kindness
ennobled into a solemn duty.
" May the blessing of God accompany the efforts
which are now put forth by the Government, and by

by every class of the people of this kingdom, for the
relief of our distressed brethren and fellow-countrymen;
may ultimate good be thus extracted from present t vil,
and may we all learn, in the severity of national afflic-
tion, the appropriate and invaluable lesson of personal
humility, of mutual forbearance, of brotherly sympathy,
and Christian love.

"I have the honour to be, Gentlemen,
" Your faithful servant,
(Signed) "SAMUEL JONES LOYD.
" Thomas Farmer. Esq., Treasurer, and
Rev. Elijah Hool., Sub-Treasurer."

SPARRING EXHIBITION IN AID
OF THE DESTITUTE IRISH AND SCOTCH.
As a further proof, if it were wanting, that the &tic
e contributions
o f
their
starving now gather-
ing
fel -
fraternity have " hearts that can feel for another," the corps
pugilistique gave their gratuitous services on Monday night, a
secondthroughout time,in aid
Englando f t he
fo for th se
e charitabler
low-countrymen, and to mitigate the multiplying horrors of
famine. The place chosen for the volunteer display was
the National Baths, in the Westminster-road, and each arena,
the lesser and the greater bath, was fitted with a stage,
wherein the gloved competitors exhibited their science of-
fensive and defensive, beneath a brilliant diadem of gas,
and numerous festoons of illumination lamps. Upwards of
fifty of the best known "Knights of the Knuckle " proffered
their services for the "mimic fray," and though all did not,
indeed could not, display, the alacrity and unanimity of this
kindly demonstration does them honour. The perform-
ances commenced by several minor actors, who, in couples,
ascended the boarded platforms, and after exhibiting in one
bath passed to the other, to entertain the second company of
spectators. Space forbids us more than a mere enumeration
of names; yet that we cannot deny ourselves, as we consider
the record of them a due tribute to the humanity and charity
of British boxers. The first sets-to were between inferior
artists, as the elite of the company had not arrived. Lowry
and Furry, J. Smith and J. Scott (good), Neal and Martin
Scott and Young Jones, Tom the Greek and Roberts, Brian
and Clark, Cronan and Johnson, and three or four minors
unknown to fame prefaced the principal performers.
Turner (the Wychwood Forester) and M'Donald, and Stocks
and Amos, elicited applause. David Hayes and Snacks (61
Leeds) made a merry bout of it. Joe Roo and T. Snow W..
lowed suit. Puttock and Fred. Mason roughed each other,
and Jem Burn's dwarfs showed that science is often best seen
on a small scale. Homer Howden and Cousens,Jemmy Mas-
sey and Young Sambo, J. Shaw and Herbert, Welsh and
Barnash, Massey and Phelps, Lazarus and Johnny Walker,
took their turns. Johnny, after a turn in each bath, on the
suggestion of a Noble Lord, was induced to put on the
mufflers a third time with the accomplished Owen Swift,
inasmuch as that ex-professor was without a partner in this
charity ball." A smart, and as we thought, not quite
friendly rally, was the result, which ended in Johnny catch-
ing mine host of the Horse-shoe an awkward up hit with
the left glove, which, added to a catch of the right heel
on the part of its receiver, brought him down heavily
on the stage. Harry Broome and Ned Adams formed a
preface to the Tipton Slasher and Peter Crawley's Young 'un,
who, though wanting the thews and strength of his
opponent, proved himself the better sparrer, foiling the
Tipton in almost every attempt; nevertheless, his agility
alone saved him from many an awkward hit which must
have told in the forced rally of actual combat. At the close
of the sparing the Tipton stepped forward and repeated
his challenge to Caunt, to contest for the Championship for
2f,o'. aside. Of this the public has heard somewhat too
much, until Caunt shall be disembarrassed from present
business obstscles to making a match. Caunt rf•plied; and
Bendigo shortly after showed with his erewhile sot ~gonist,
Big Ben. The set-to was interesting. Bendy, es o nal, ex-
emplifying the art of feinting. planting, jumring 1.1 in,
ducking the head, running after his man, and all the other
eccentricities for which his actual contests with the Cham-
pion have been remarkable. Luke Rogers, Ned Painter,
Hall, Savage, and many of the old and new hcitool, were
present, but time forbade their being coupled or appearing.
Tom Spring returned thanks, amid much applause :ruin a
gratified audience, numbering upwards of 2,000 persons.
Great praise is due to the committee of management for their
excellent arrangemerrs.

AN EXCELLENT SUGGESTION FOR THE AFFLUENT
LANT).— e have pleasure in complying with the
OreFquEG W
esNtof a correspondent in making known that the Rev.
of unquestionable
oßo.ciGueisldtieono,araatoro
respectability Newport,
County Mayo, a clergyman
disclosed in the followingof hasa aledtetpetredreotehi
extract evedsehferomme
him for the relief of his perishing
of the destitution of his people" people. After a description
counts received from other quarters,
to the grievous tic-
commenced a system of reproductive he
saY3—" I have also
approve, make it known to your house-keeping kwork, which if you
Gilden, anxious to take the young women-eeping friends. Mrs.
from the road.
works where' they we-e indiscriminately
men, suggested the idea of finding theYm
emsorinoeyel among
ployment, and yesterday she began to give out somoemfleax temo•
spin at such a price as will meet their sad coy dition • and
my plan for carrying it out is this—any person approving
of the object, and sending me whatever some of money they
please, with their address, and where in London or Liverpool,
a parcel will be received for them, shall, please God, receive
the value of their money in towelling, strong 3/4 wide linen,
or coarse table linen suited for servants, whatever they
name; all of fine flax, hand-wove and bleached, such as
cannot (for lasting qualities) be bought for any price in
supported in this, I will set 50
England. If lam supp 500 women to
work before a fortnight, at their own fire-sides(miserable as they
may be) yet freed from the many contaminations of public
roads. The poor people themselves are delighted with the
plan, and sixty got flax yestet day, while all the wheel-ma-
kers are busy preparing, and all the weavers are getting
ready also —GeoactE R. GILDER, Newport Rectory, Mayo,
Ireland." We have no question that many of our readers
will at once respond to this call. The simplest scheme is t.)
forward a post-office order for the sum they desire to expend
in this manner, giving their own address, if they reside in
London or Liverpool, or, if not, the address of a friend, who
will receive for them the linen when forwarded by Mr. Gil-
den.—Hampshire Advertiser.
FIRE RAISING.—A sturdy Irish mendicant applied
for an alms at the house of Mr. Cairns, farmer, Broamside,
in the parish of Dalgetty, Fife, on Saturday last, in the
afternoon. Upon being refused, he threatened vengeance in
such a manner as greatly to alarm Mrs. Cairns, she being tho
only person in the house at the time, and it appoars that his
threat was made good, for shortly after he lett the house a
large barley stack was in a flame, and before it could be ex-
tinguished was completely destroyed. He has'as yet escaped
the police.— Fifa/tire Journal.

IMPERIAL. PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF C M NS, (.3 3.
The Sm.%;:ru took the Chair at Twelve o'd,ck, but it
was Tw: try flutes Lfter Twelve before a k,uilicielit number
of MewLers attended to constitute a Home.

RAILWAY TOLLS.

Mr. STRUTT moved that the Committee on every Railway
Bill shall fix the tolls, and shall determine the maximum
rates of charge for the conveyance of passengers, with a due
amount of luggage, and of goods on such railway, and such
rates of charge shall include the tols, and the costs of loco.
motive power, and every other expense connected with the
conveyance of passengers, with a due amount of luggage, and
of goods upon such railway; but if the Committee shall not
deem it expedient to determine such maximum rates of
charge, a special report, explanatory of the grounds of their
()misting so to do, shall be made to the House, which special
report shall accompany the report of the Bill.—Agreed to.
Mr. GREENE moved that in order to give time fi,r the
breviate to be laid on the table one clear day before the
second reading, the Newcastle and Berwick Railway Bill
(Cramlington and Pere- Alain and Killingworth and other
branches) Bill, be readja second time on Friday.
Motion agreed to.
The Hoar. GENTLEALts also moved, that the Coventry,
Nuneaton, Birmingham, and • Leicester Railway Bill ; the
London and North- Western Railway (Kenilworth to Berks-
well Branches and Extensions, &c.) 11111 ; the London and
North -Western Railway (Coventry and Nuneaton Branches)
Bill ; and the London and North-Western Railway (Atherstone
and Whitacre Branch) Bill, be read a second time this day,
notwithstanding the breviatea of the same have not been laid
on the table one clear day previously.—Agreed to.
SECOND READINGS OF RAILWAY BILLS.
On the motion of Mr. SPOONER, the following railway
Bills were read a second time, and ordered to be com-
mitted :

Birmingham and Oxford Junction Railway (D:viation of
Line).
Birmingham and Oxford Junction Railway (Warwick and
Stratford Line).
Birmingham, Wolverhampton, and Dudley Railway (Stour-
bridge and West Bromwich).
Eastern Counties Railway (Somershatu to Ramsey).
Eastern Counties Railway (Lynn and Ely Railway, and Ely
and Huntingdon Railway, and Lynn and Dereharn Rail-
way Lease).
Eastern Counties Railway (Purchase of the North Woolwich
Railway).
Eastern Counties Railway (Maldon, Witham, and Braintree
Railway Purchase).
Midland Railway (Extension of the Nottingham and Lincoln
Branch at Lincoln).
Newmarket and Chesterford Railway (Repeal of Provision
authorising the Company to use the Line of the Eastern
Counties Railway).
Waterford, Wexford, Wicklow, and Dublin Railway.
HORSEFERRY BRIDGE.
Mr. B. HAWES presented a petition from certain
watermen against the proposed erection of the Hoiseferry-
bridge.

DISTILLERIES.
Mr. BROTHERTON presented several petitions complain-
ing of the vast quantity of grain used in distilleries, and
praying the House to prevent it.
Mr. SHAW presented a number of similar petitions.
TEN HOURS' BILL.
Sir GEORGE GREY presented several petitions in favour
of a restriction of the hours of labour in factories for young
persons. The petitions were numerously signed by the
clergymen and surgeons of the different districts.
Lord GEORGE BENTINCK pres:nted six petitions to
the same effect.
Mr. WAKLEY also presented a number of petitions in
favour of the Factories Bill.

THE FACTORIES REGULATION BILL.
Mr. FIELDEN moved the order of the day for going into
Committee on this Bi!l.
Lord J. RUSSELL presented a pstition signed by several
hundred manufacturers in Lancashire and Yorkshire, em-
ploying upwards of forty thousand hands, against this Bill;
also several other petitions to the same effect.
Mr. MACAULAY presented several petitions from Scot-
land in favour of the Bill.

Mr. T. S. DUNCOMBE pre.ented a great number of
petitions from the factory operatives of Lancashire and York-
shire to the same effect.

On the motion that the Speaker do leave the chair,
Mr. B. ESCOTT rose to oppose the motion for going
into Committee on the Bill. He craved the indulgence
cf the House, both en personal and public grounds, as he
could not claim an intimate acquaintance with the trade and
manufacture to which the Bill had reference, nor did he re •
present a constituency that had a direct interest in the
matter, still, as it was thought by many, that the question
might fairly be taken up by one unconnected with the manu-
facturing districts, as its subject was not confined in its opera-
tion to one class, but had reference to the labour of the
country generally, he had been induced to call the
attention of the House to the subject. The Bill was
one of such importance that be felt persuaded the House,
before going into Committee, should re consider the vote
it had come to by the arguments which had led to the same.
It was now introduced under different circumstances than it
had ever been before, and demanded, therefore, more especial
attention. It was not introduced by some young Lord, who
was ambitions to earn a name for humanity, and for the sake
of popularity, but it was introduced under the auspices of the
Hon. Member for Oldham, a man who had been the architect
of his own fortune, and who had grown grey in the business
in which he was engaged. Therefore, his being in favour of
such a Bill, after all his experience, was a matter which
ought not to be lightly passed by. This Bill proposed to
reduce the hours of labour to ten hours a day. This was
the real question. All the petitions presented to the
House were in favour of a Ten Hours' Bill; no one was in
favour of eleven hours. Yet this Bill, it carried at all, was
to be carried by those who, as soon as the Speaker left the
chair, would move that the Bill be cut down to eleven hours
a day.—(Hear, hear.) Would it, therefore, be a settlement
of the question ? He opined not. Nor did he think even
a Ten Hours' Bill would, for if that were conceded, they would
be next asking the House to consent to an Eight Hours' Bill.
Some time ago, at a meeting of the factory operatives, Mr.
Oastler made a speech in favour of eight hours a-day, and
the whole meeting was in favour of the proposition. But even
eight hours would not satisfy, and the demand would next be
for a Six Hours' Bill. But confining himself to the ten hours'
proposition, were the House to affirm that principle it would
have the effect, he was persuaded, at once of sweeping away
all the profit at present realized by the manufacturers. Take
off the one-sixth, the one- eighth, or the one-tenth of the
day's labour, and the result would be the numbers employed
would be greatly reduced, there being no longer any profit
for the carrying on of the works. And at the
same time the Customs, the Excise, and trades-
men generally would suffer for the loss of customers.
With respect to the foreign trade of the country, this inter-
ference seemed to him the wildest project that ever entered
the mind of man. When they were competing with France
and America, and the continental nations, and only able to
keep their heads above water—it seemed the most novel ex-
periment to knock off at once one-sixth of their manufac-
tures. Why the whole of their home consumption would not
equal the amount which would be lost by this interference
with the hours of labour. The Bill for crippling the ener-
gies of the people was also introduced at a period of universal
scarcity. Surely this was not the time to say
to the workmen, " You shall not use these facul-
ties that God has given you for the purpose
of earning bread for your families." According
to their new-fangled notions the working man, o
instead of
working for the food which was now with difficulty to be
had, even with his best exertions, should amuse himself with
some interesting little book—( Laughter)—or a stroll in some
public garden. The Hon. Member then quoted from a past
speech of Lord John Rus,en's, in 1839, to show that the
Noble Lord's opinion was-et-hat the principle of fixing a
period of labour, or the rates of wages by law, was opposed
to all sound policy and common sense. He (Ur. Escott) would
not ask the Noble Lord why his opinions in 1847 were not in '
unison wish ties° of 1839. For the last six months the Go-
vernment had been tying up their hands; while thedcreein
nental nations were scrambling for food, they ha the
shortening their arm, and now they sought to prevent
working man from making the natural and proper exertion
to maintain himself and his family in some degree of comfort
and respectability. If Hon. Gentlemen would only look to
lreadv
the nature of the interference which hady
a„ould
'
taken place with regard to labour,
find the best argument against the course thetyhe
were now
pursuing, for never had au Act yet been passed interfering
with labour that did not create a necessity for subsequent
interference. If, therefore, they found through long course
of legislation that this was the fact, it furnished, fishe
the very best argument against the measure introduced by
the Hon. Member for Oldbatn. The
Hon. Member then
proceeded to read extracts from the report
of the Factory
Commissioners, to show that the working
tlie longer hours
people themselves
did not object to extra titre, because, hi
did them no harm, they found that twhemeon_
thee
vdi:,inipthm
world of good.—(Laughter.) He would callieon o
said a
the Ilouse to the evidence of the Rev. Mr. Pickard,
who
that there was no difference between the comforts of factory
children and any other children ; and the Rev M
said that factory children were as well off asan.r. Fielding
otheinr
chil-
dren, but they did lot look so well as children
bus-
banary. It was not to be expected that they would. Did the
sat there
Members of that House look so well havingafter engaged
seven months, as if they had just come from enjoying their
leisure in shooting or hunting?—(Cheers and laughter.) He
held in his hand a document, a memorial sinnno.d be•
men representing three-fourths of the manufacturing
interest in Lancashire protesting against any interference
with the hours of factory labour, which could only
end in mischief and disappointment, and stating that the
responsibility of the measure would rest upon
presentedpontheAl
Ministry,
—( dear, hear.) That memorialwams only
morning, and he did think that these
.iabour,
o had deserved
well of their country by employing
so much
be allowed to regulate their own hours of labour. should
lie
was a little misunderstood
hoenr afotrormTer occasion by
the Right Honourable 11 He
them positionainrth.
had never said that of the Right
Honourable Gentleman rendered it necessary for him
to take a prominent part in every discussion. Whathedi
say was, that from the ktio.yr. debating powers of the Right
ifon. Member, no cause that he either advocated or op.
posed could receive the full beneav°eaeYt
or t
a oi
wheno-
fit of his d
sition, unless he spoke upon it. It was
necessary
men of talent advocated any measure the • 3 should speak upon it,
and support it ; or if they opposed it, they should stand forward
and show what they conceived to be its fallacies and evils. • -
lie would once more urge upon the House the danger of any
interference with the factory operatives, for they never could
settle the question as long as the nature of the
working remained the same, and they remained subject to
those contingencies to, which they were
iaow subjected.
He thanked the Housesta n amendment, or its attentioiithat o
to him, and he would
the House do
conclude by moving, a
into Committee that day six months. g
Mr. BECKETT then rose, but spoke in so low a tone that
le was for some time quite inaudible. He thought it would
I also a „f some service if the llon. Gentlemen „cm:,l twee
pt a
conditional Bill for short hours, for he was quite .satisfied
that the working men were perfectly sincere in their desire.
to reduce the hours of labour. They had discussed the mea-
sure over their pots of beer and pots of ale,
and he was convinced that they desired that their
families, at any risk, should be freed from the unreasonable
exertion which they were now called upon to make. Ile had
consulted with gentlemen, not only natives of this country,
but of America also, and all concurred in the belief that the
reduction of the hours of labour would be beneficial .But
lie had else the testimony of the manufacturers themselves,
and he Lelieved that the majority of them agreed that he
change would be profitable rather than otherwise. If they
took off this one hour they would take off that which was
the least advantageous to the master, while it was most
wasteful of the energy and the strength of the work e°Pe 1 •
and if they granted this boon he felt assured thatP the
mechanics' institutions and the schools of
design, which
were all open at that hour of the day, Wee'd be visited—
and he must do the people tire to say that
they were alweys ready to avail theineelves of the
opportunities which these institutions offnred. To take off
two hours from the daily labour of the , -
War tt p,opie would,
however, in his estimation, prevent the maeufse
. users from
competing with the manufacturers on the continent, and he
believed that the House would not act so unwisely us to
alter the decision to which they had so re-
peatedly, and of late so dscidedly come, for
were they to do so they would be stultifying

their legislation, and reducing the character of the Mars: ;
while, on the contrary, were they to t: ke en eleven home'
Bill, they wsuld meet the requirements of the syorkpeople
without injury to their masters, and come to a satistectigy
settlement of the question.
Mr. WARD said that this question had bear s) frequently
and so fully discussed that he should not have said
a single word but that he felt his silence might be ndecen-
strued. Tile Hon. Gentleman who had just sat clown had
stated that if the House were to come to any decision contrary
to that at which they arrived before they would be lowering
the character of the House and gainsae ing their own oehtions
Butwheithad been the his toryof th is question underthat House?
Why, when the Noble Lord, the late Member for Doi ecteltire
(Lord Ashley) had brought forward this question last year.
it had been negatived by a majority of ten, and yet when t
was brought before the Hou,e this session—without the
slightest change of circumstances, without a single new idea
being thrown out, and without a single new reason
being adduced—it had been cap ried by a majority of eishteen.
Already there had been four decisions oil this enhject,
and each was almost contrary to the other. He did not,
therefore, think that the character of the House of Commons
would in any way be reduced by coming to a decision different
from that at which they had arrived last year, or that because
they legislate in one way in the first instance and in another
way afterwards. They had for years past been legis-
lating for the direction of the workpeople in tl:e
manufacturing districts, and, whether for good or for evil, they
had produced great results upon their destinies. The ques-
tion was now whether they should reconsider the determi-
nation at which they had atready arrived, and it was the
opinion of the Hon. Member who had just sat down, that if
they decided upon an eleven hours' Bill they would for ever
set the question, at rest. But he (Mr. Ward) believed that
such a decision as that would not meet the views of the Hon.
Member for Oldham (Mr. Fielden), or of Lord Ashley either.
Mr. FlELDEN—Certainly not.
Mr. WARD—The Hon. Member for Oldham, with charac-
teristic candour, said no. Nor was it at all likely that it
would, especially as it was always described as a boon
to be given to the working people, and without which of
course they would not now be satisfied. But they had now come
to a point when it was absolutely necessary for them to con-
sider whether they could safely legislate on the subject. God
knew that he was as anxious for the promotion of the welfare
and happiness of the working people as any man, but he
great* questioned whether this was the right way to pro-
mote diet happiness. If it were safe, let them by all means
give to the working people au eleven hours' Bill or a ten hour'
or even an eight hours' Bill. Give them, by all means, if it
could be safely granted, four hours for domestic enjoyment,
and four hours for recreation. Give them by all means the
possession of such opportunities as would relieve them from
the toil of slavery, and at the same time enable them to
partake of such pleasures as would exalt them in their own
estimation, and induce a constant feeling of self-respect ;
for if all this could be done it was plainly the duty
of the House to take measures for its accomplishment; but
they ought to consider well what was the safe path before they
entered upon any new plans like this now before them. Ile
himself stood in a painful position on this question, for he was
not only opposed to a large portion of his constituency, but
to several of the members of the Government under whom he
served. It appeared to him by allowing this principle they
would, so far as he could perceive, be only adopting the prac •
tice, and indeed the principle also, of the trades unions. They
combined to keep up the rate of their wages, and that alone
was the object of the present movement. Did they think
that any of these people would take a ten hours' Bill with
only ten hours' wages? Certainly not—not a man of them.
Their object was plainly-to reduce the amount of work, without
at the same time reducing their remuneration. Not that he
blamed them for it, for they had a natural right to protect
this, their only property. He was anxious to take this
opportunity of correcting an errorinto which he had fallen
some months ago. He had stated that, in the manufacturing
districts, a parent was prevented from apprenticing more than
or.e or two of his sons to his own trade, but on inquiry he
had discovered that it was only in two or three of the
smaller and more insignificant branches of the Sheffield tr. de
that this unnatural restriction existed. But he contended
that this measure never would benefit the working classes
unless they at the same time supported the amount of their
wages; and if they did that, they must inevitatly in-
terfere with the competition of our manufacturers in
foreign markets. It was of little censequence whether
the article to be affected was cutlery or cotton, for just in
proportion to the extent of the interference with this compe-
tition would be the loss occasioned to the workmen. He had
now had considerable experience of the wants, the necessi-
ties, and the interests of the working classes in the manufac-
turing districts, and this was the conclusion at which he
could not help arriving, especially in those trades which had
to contend with the French and German manufacturers.
About 73 per cent. of the articles made at and exported from
Sheffield went to the markets where they would meet with
these goods, and tinder what a manifest disadvantaee.
then, would they be placed. If they adopted free trade
in one instance, they ought to be consistent, and carry
it into (very department of business.—((lear, hear.)
Instead of doubting the judgment of the working classes
upon these great truths, he knew that they were fully alive
to them. All the sympathies of human nature must be ie
favour of this measure, but common sense and sound reason
was opposed to the principle of less labour with the sense
pay.—(Hear, hear.) It had been trumpeted forth that
this measure ought to be passed because the manufacturers
had got free trade; but the House forgot that the benefits f
free trade could not be obtained in a single year. It re-
quired time to carry out the principle of free
trade, and make its effects felt in every part of the
globe, and therefore it was unwise to pursue this
mode of reasoning. His objections to this measure were as
strong as ever they had been, and he should certainly glee
his vote in favour of the motion of the Honourable Member
for Winchester. Besides, the time when this measure was
brought forward was most unfortunate, and inopportune. Food
was dear,manufactures were depressed, trade was falling off, and
yet the House was called upon to entrammel the manufac-
turers with the provisions of tuffs Bill.—(Hear, hear.) Wits
not allow them first to recover from this depression before
they ventured to try this experiment? He was ex-
tremely anxious to see the condition of the ope-
rative bettered, but he did not think this measure
was calculated to effect that object, and as it was
highly objectionable in many of its provisions, be must vote
for the amendment of the Hon. Member for Winchester.
Mr. BROTHERTON felt deeply impressed that the time
had arrived when they ought to legislate upon this sub-
ject. The labourers were forced, say what they would, to
work so many hours per day in an unhealthy atmosphere,
and the time had arrived when it was necessary something
should be done to remedy this state of things. If they were
always to adhere to the strict principles of political economy,
the functions of the House would be greatly restricted. They
had already interfered with the law of landlord and tenant,
the weak had
mre)
ai At
tiadsstchttesihhotoeesiphn(dis lragoe'Botitvonsftooi
iegl
dfmnrdi esi.eecot,feeg)
voNtevlcrrelttneodrhhrtem.
with masters and apprentices; they had placed restrictions
upon railways and hackney coaches, and why had they done
so? Why,. because those' were exceptions to the general
rule, and this question of factory labour, too, was an excep-
tion. Hall men were humane and just, there would be no
necessity for legislation of this sort. It man was born simply
to labour and lige for a given time, there would be no necessity
in legislation of this sort; but man was created for higher
and nobler objects than this, and in order to ensure the
realisation of these objects—in order to render man more
humane than he was—in order to improve the social and
moral conditions of the masses, it was necessary that the
House should at once legislate upon this subject. Some Hon.
Members asked, why not let the matter be left to
be settled between the masters and the men ? Well, had it
not already been referred in that way, and what had the
masters done ?—(Hear, hear.) "Why, they proposed nothing,
and the workmen went on toiling and suffering as before.
Hon. Members could form no idea of the sufferings of the
labourers, since some were stronger than others, but still
tthliew'easletshthroonrinlsgrts.rength, and it was with view of seeing such
b oye
had combinations
ad
suffered counterbalancedseverely frobmy t
htletee
existing
itsrtoinngg
system,arm ohilsifdie:anituignnlse:fteet:
lawT
hrhei l
sirt
iseogilwsflio:liallativstaNte,voradlleirder,4tge,hwuawet
his strongest energies to bring about a better state of thin.; s.
t
Honourable Members held out to the working classes that if
Why, the same argument was used in 1829, when Sir R. Peel
elaheitdinabeesußinisi
cnh(daN
tiattedgi iolse,ottotsinthit:theoisnoieerseontdeeolfi:hulfn:iepeosblixclatirtereasrepinrstpsirelietiotecohdtefitafie.eparllil
wteehr.Noaeveurt:l hoursdwe
rendered
be-
low 14 a day. It was then predicted that production would
t''iboonusrliad
not been realised, for while production had increased there
had been a corresponding augmentation of wages. lie had
deeply considered this question, and he was ccnvinced that
it was expedient, in a commercial as well as every other
point of view, to concede it to the working classes. Ile had
always been of opinion that legislation was necessary, and
he was glad to see a measure brought forwarel, though it was
in the last hour, that was calculated to meet the expectations
of all parties. He had seen women who were pregnant com-
pelled to labour during those protracted hours.
Mr. bRIGRT— They are not compelled to work.
BROTHERTON—The Hon. Gentleman said they
were not compelled to work, but they had no choice, they
were compelled to work.—( Hear.) He believed sincerely
that the Bill would not reduce wages or injure the masters.
The working classes would not be satisfied until they ob-
tained a ten hours' Bill. - (Hear.)
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said lie bad listened to the speech
of the lion. Gentleman who had just sat down with the most
unfeigned pleasure, and he was sure the House had also dyne
so with equal gratification, on account of one circumstance.
He confessed, until he heard the statement to which he re-
ferred, he wee not aware that the Hon. Gelid min bad
ministered, with his own hands, to his personal waists as a
.)
that
honourable
ell
GI
acc:lnii
tind it
gecalgolabinuvsovaeurlieirntflecylreii ittgliel,dip,agirigeoreifevirtaileaesreaataptrt:taetirechilp:ita'ilhe.te—airiaen.:)s)(utu,irriteeholaei
t,
01 —rt
with
the Honourable Gentleman on a footing of perfect
cd
haracter.—(Cheers.)
rrls,i.u)annl tdmupusetsrrtsy(:bnea gdnl.:lti3t.rtiaesncei
to
unblemished stations
nf
to say, that the Honourable Gentleman had given full effect
1 to the sentiments of his youth, but it was natural that he
should have done so; still he could not help observing, that
the Hon. Gentleman's success, and the fact of his being a
Member of that House, afforded a proof that the most
honourable acquirements were even compatible with the
labour which persons employed in factories were in the
habit of undergoing.—(Hear.) He could not, however, with
great respect for the lion. Gentleman's experience, yield
to the doctrine which he had propounded, that they should
consent to give way to what he (Sir J. Graham) considered
the prejudices of those engaged in factory labour.—(Hear,
shteaatre.d) t The e g
rlelaotno
questionurab l e Gentleman
at issae had, as he
n said t t correctly
ques-
tion was, should they compel women and children to work
twelve hours a day or not? Now he (Sir J. Graham) said
irlelicntg legislation,tovork weh.e restrainh large
masses
dworkinge
that that was not the questiou.—(Hear, hear.) The ques-
tion
'assay fromes
of was—shouldindas
working period for the purpose of earning their
livelihood, though they were willing to do so? Would the
House put that restraint upon them? Was it wise to do so?
He was perfectly willing
to admit that where such large
masses of the people were employed, the principles of
political economy ought to be applied. The science of poli-
ticalin some quarters of the House to be
treated
mbyenindwi
appeared
economy
almost with contempt ; but he had always
considered that the science was not only the great rule
to be observed with a view to the acquisition
Iwhether their
d he doubted very much, legislation
(Hear)—an
be found safe, if the principles of the
would, in the long run,
departed from.
But if lee could setiely
cience were much departed a
departure from its principle,:
his judgment 1
of national wealth, but for the equitable distribution of
conduceh—
ly
in the particular branches of trade referred
classes engaged
to act in opposition to their die •
he should not hesitate
to,t to the interests of the working
' Haman made one observation, which Ito
rates.
Graham) was bound to say he thouglt
(Sir James
..
against the measure • but he
conclusive evidence .
cone
to say that it did not carry the eon-
goleir;.ed with it which the Hon. Gentlemen wished. He asked
• "s"-°lll • I down as a principle, that to eat, to drink,
would
,rrehael
if it was to be al(
I and to die, should be the lot of a large proportion
to wor, r,
of his countrymen? Alas! 11 (J. e Slr Graham) was grieved
to say that such was the lot of vast masses, but truth
Hon. Gen
i compelled him to say, that the lot of labourers, not
only in this country, I.,ut throughout the civilised world,
was but eating, drinking, working, and dying. That was

- -- - ---
but the sum of human life decreed by the Almighty. It was
a grievous truth. The lot of man was to work for his sub-
sistence, and were they by legal interference to make him
( fellow a life Of ease anti cenifert, or by legislation so to in-
terfere with and to old difficulties to hiteexistence, as to em-
bitter his lot ?—(Hter.) He was prepared to say, that having
given his best attention to this subject, having viewed it
also as a political question, he was still of opinion
that ench a Bill was not required. He bad listened
with attention to the statements of the Chancellor of
the Exchequer with respect to the influence of the
foreign trade on the revenue on former occa.sione,
when labour was restricted, and its influence en the work-
ing classes themselves, and he was thereby warned that
the adoption of such a measure was not required, and that it
would, by restricting the quantity of production, seriously in-
jure the revenue. He had little to add to the arguments of
the Hon. Gentleman the _Member for Sheffield (Mr. Ward)
with reference to the effect cf such a measure on the working
classes themselves. The Hon. Gentleman had made some
reference to the amount of foreign exports, and stated that
the exports of co ton had not materially diminished. Now,
he held in his hand a paper which had been circulated that
morning—( Hear)—giving an account of the trade and navi-
gation of the country, and containing a statement with refer-
ence to the exports for theyear 1846, as compared with those
of 1845. It dealt with the cotton, woollen, linen. flax and
silk trades. The whole declared value of exports of this
country in 1846 was 51,279,0001.; of this, cotton, linen,
woollen, flax and silk, constituted 37,385,f0J4—(Cheers)—
being somewhese about four-fifths of the whole exports.
The value of the cotton exported in 1846 was 17,726,0001.,
as compare,' with 19,156,0001. in 1845, showing a falling off
of near 2,000,0001. sterling in the cotton manufacture alone,
as compared with the preceding year. The value of linen
exported in 1816 was 2,839,000/. ; whereas in 1845 it.
was 3,036,006/. The value of linen yarn exported in
1845 was 1,066,0001. ; but in 1846 it was only 907,000/. The
value of the wool exported the same years presented a similar
result. On silk there was a small increase, as, in 1845, it
was 766,0001., but in 1846 it was 837,000/. These
constituted the staple manufactures of the country,
and he found the difference in their declared
value to be somewhere about 151. per cent., as compared
with 1845. He had already said that the argument of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer was wrong; he would now
proceed to deal with several important admissions made by
the Honourable Gentleman the Secretary for the Home
Department, which appeared to him conclusive evidence
against interfering with labour in factories. -He said that
he would not be a party to a delusion ,that this altera-
tion, if adopted, would not necessarily lead to a reduc•
tion in the amount of wages. In the present condition
of the country, when prices were rising, and when wages
had fallen, from the cessation of employment, it ap
peared conclusive evidence why no interference should take
place. The admission, a most important one, was next
that heretofore in dealing with this object they bad the
c mcurrence of the masters in what they had done ; but
that was not the case now, for a memorial had recently
been presented to the First Lord of the Treasury in opposi-
tion to the measure, and signed by a large mejority of the
manufacturers, saying that any interference with the hours of
labour in factories could not but be fraught with great
danger. The Hon. Gentleman, having exclusive sources of
knowledge on the subject, from the confidential reports of the
Factory Inspectors and others, stated that the health of the
workers was not impaired by the labour which they were
compelled to undergo. But there was another admission,
which had even a more practical bearing on the subject
than those he had enumerated. He considered that
the concession of a ten hours' Bill would be *Aught
with danger; that it would be most inexpelient, and
that he was prepared to Like his stand on an eleven hours'
Bill.—(hear, hear.) Now, no doubt the Hon. Gentleman
the Member for Oldham (Mr. Fielden), when he
addressed the House in reply, would state that
an eleven hours' Bill would by no means satisfy the work-
ing classes, that they would never rest contented until their
hours of labour were abridged to ten hours a day. Therefore
the proposition of the Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State
for the Home Department, which he thought was fraught
with danger, would be of no avail, as the working classes
would not be satisfied with it, and would continue to agitate
for a ten hours' Bill. This was a conclusive argument why
they should not depart from the understanding which
had subsisted for half a century without having
been injurious to the interests of those concerned.
By such a measure they would render it impos-ible for ma-
chinery to run for twelve hours. At present, by the use of
relays of children, working sh,Tter hours, and by other ar-
rangements, the factories have been able to remedy the inju-
rious effects which would have arisen from former legisla-
tion. But what was the course which they were now
invited to take P—that no consideration should influence them
in permitting children to work in factories. He believed that,
practically speaking, since the commencement of the present
century, the hours of labour in linen and woollen factories
had been limited to twelve hours. Four-fifths of the exports
of the country consisted in their woollen manufactures, and
one-half of the declared value of their expotts consisted of
their cotton trade ; and what, lie would ask, would be the
inevitable effect of an -alit-M.:meta to eleven hours upon the
master manufacturers ? Why they must either submit to
a diminution of their profits, or they must raise the price of
their goods, or they must lower their wages, or thy must
cease to manufacture.—( Hear, hear.) Could they raise the
price of their goods or increase their profits ? Foreign corn
petition prevents them, and renders it impossible.
Unless theycease to manufacture they must lower their wages.
The Hon. Member for Salford, who understood the question
very well, admitted that by limiting the hours of labour they
must diminish the quantity produced. But did he
forget, that if the quantity was diminished the
amount of wages would be materially reduced?
The foreign trade and the home market would
still requi.e an equal supply as at the present moment,
and fresh manufactories should be built to afford it ; that, in
his opinion, would be a fruitless, extravagant, and prodigal
waste of capital. The machinery at present in operation was
of two kinds, old and tew. There was some old
machinery running for twelve hours, which did not produce
a quantity equal to new machinery, which only ran for ten
hours. The effects, then, of this measure would be the de-
struction, by Act of Parliament, of a great mass of valuable
property.—(Hear, hear.) He would draw their attention to
this most important part of the subject : they were about to
create a reduction in the amount of wages at the
very moment when, by a severe dispensation of
Providence, the price of food was very high, and still con-
tinuing to rise—at the very same moment when, from a
natural cause, the price of the raw material was enhanced
from a short supply. The Chancellor of the Exchequer
stated that even at present a great many mills in
Manchester were working short time, and that no fewer
than 2,200 hands were out of employment. Moreover, it
was not the case as formerly, that the high price of food
raised the price of labour. From the artificial state of society
in which they lived, oscillations in trade would inevitably
take place, and, as a necessary consequence, bring
with them a diminution in the demand for the article,
a diminution in the hours of labour. Was there
sense, then, was there justice in prohibiting the labourer
from working twelve hours when the state of trade allowed it,
thus preventing him front saving and preparing for the time
when a decrease in his wages would take place from the
fluctuations in trade? He had on so many former occasions
stated all the objections which he entertained to
this measure that he should be unpardonable if
he detained the House by again repeating them, but
he was bound to say that a deep sense of public duty had
compelled him stedfastly to resist a measure which he knew
to be grateful to a great number of his fellow-countrymen.
In looking at the question, it was impossible for him to
overlook the great principle of commercial policy which
had been introduced into the country. He would ask
them under what circumstances they were invited to pass
the measure. All prohibitory duties had been removed—the
corn-laws had been repealed—the Navigation Act had been
suspended.
Lord GEORGE BENTINCE.—How long will they con-
tinue so ?
Sir JAMES GRAHAM—He was stating nothing which
was not a matter of fact. Prohibitory duties had been
abolished; and protective duties had been so much lowered on
foreign produce, that foreign manufactures were admitted
and entered into direct competition in the home market with
their own goods. They had established the most perfect
freedom ofcomrnerce, and his Right Hon. Friend the Member
fot Tamworth might well exclaim, when surveying the em •
pire of commercial freedom which he had contributed so
much to enlarge—
" Hic ego nec metal reruns, nec Tempora pono
'moult= sine fine dedi."
•
—(Cheers.) The Hon. Member for Newark said that they
should put a curb upon these manufactories, that they
should make them feel their riders ; and that such
a course would not make them the less beneficial.
Was that the spirit of the Commons of England?
To put a "rein and a curb, and to make them feel their
riders." He hoped and trusted that the Noble Lord at the
head of the Government hail no such feeling or no such de
sire respecting the great interest upon which the pros-
perity of the country depends.—(" Hear, hear," from Lord
John Russell.) He feared that the measure, if adopted,
was exactly in the spirit of the Member for
Newark. It would be a curb and a bridle, under which he
believed the mant facturing interest would tret, and to which
it would not submit. The measure would be a tax upon
machinery—it would be a limit to the earnings of industry
—(Hear)—it would be a tax upon wages—(Hear, hear)--
which, if it were extended to all trades, would be a burden
intolerable.—(hear, hear.) It was most painful to him to
resist a measure which was gratetul to a large portion of his
fellow-countrymen, but with a firm conviction in the purity
of his motives, he was compelled to remit his vote against
the measure.

Sir GEORGE GREY said, that hating expressed Ida
sentiments on the measure on the second reading of the 13111,
he only rose for a few moments on account of what had fallen
from the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir James Graham).
The Rig'tt Hon. Gentleman had stated that h
tSir George Grey) had in his former speech mm e
four admissions which were strong arguments again, t
the present Bill. The first admission that the Right He,-
nourable Baronet had attributed to him was, that the effect
of the Bill would be to reduce the wages of the working
classes in proportion to the reduction of time. He (Sir
George Grey) had never made an admission so large. All
he had stated was, that the tendency of the measure •
would be to reduce the wages of the factory labourers, but
not that the reduction would be equal in extent to the re-
duction of the hours of labour. He stated that, notwith-
standing the improvements of machinery, no increased exer-
tion could enable the operatives to do the same
amount of labour in eleven hours that they
could do in twelve— Vie earnings of' eleven horns
would not be the same as the earnings of ten, or tl.•
earnings of eleven the amount of twelve hours; I W. he never
denied but that other causes would operate to keep up tl •
rate of wages: the difference of years. and the varying con-
dition of the c.nnmercial and manufacturing markets. Though
wages might be less, he had never admitted that the reduc-
tion would be equal to the alteration in the hours of labour
made. He said there would be a !eduction, but other causes
would of sate to lessen the effect of the alteration. The
se, oid admission attributed to him was, that the success of
the Government legislation on factory labour depended mainly
on the employers,—that they bad willingly concurred in the
change which was made. sow, he had never said that the
employers had given their willing concurrence to the mea-
sure, but he said the successful result of it had arisen from
the fact of the great majority of the employers of factory la-
bourers cc-Aerating with the operatives in carrying out its
provisions.—(Hear, hear.) So far from stating that they
had concurred in the measure, he said they held the same
language then as now, that the abridgment of the hours '
labour would bring loss and ruin upon them. They had, hee.
was glad to hear, been disappointed in that expectation, and
as the warnings they had given the House aboutt interfering
had not realised their forebodings, he was opinion that
tehe for supposing
if the Bill had passed there was reasoneverwyhi
they would again be disappointed,
intso doubtthat, as before, they would cease all oppositieonhtaod
enact-
ments, and concur with the operatives in carrying the law
into effect.— (Hear, hear.) He had next been represented
by the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir James Graham)
as stating that factory labour bad not a prejudicial
'effect on health. In answer, must say that he 'had never
made so large an admission.
for twelve hours a day * When young persons laboured
that their health in
a factoryit could not be pre-
sumed:he did saywould hot. suffer. But -what
was, that the returns of the RegL-
rar-General did not bear out the inference that large