The Sun.
London, England, 1847-11-25 00:00:00

/1

THE SUN, LONDO'N, THURSDAY EVENING, NOVEMBER 251 1847.

Indies, show a terry LI;le balance on the other side. For
au increase of 7 1000 packages on one side, there is a
falling off of 30,C00 on the other. And this is your
your balance of. trade! This is the result of free trade!
When her Metjesty recommends the further considera-
tion of the navigation laws, I think prudence might sug-
gest to the Noble Lord, with all his courage, the pro-
priety of holding his ruthless hand.—(Hear, and a
laugh.) ;Surely, in the present circumstances of the
country there is little to encourage us in extending
the free trade system. Let us, who were told by
the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth,
in 1845, in proposing the renewal :of the income-tax,
that such would be the elasticity given to trade and
commerce and all branches of industry by his new com-
mercial policy, that he hoped to be able, some time in
the course of the next spring, to dispense with the pro-
Petty and income-tax altogether—let us, who are now
told in. her Majesty's speech that she " regrets to inform
MI of the injury which the revenue has sustained,"
Pause a little before we resolve to proceed further in the
ruinous course vthich has conducted us to our present
disastrous position.—(Hear.) Remember that, if we are
to believe the evidence given before the Navigation
Committee, the question to which her Majesty's Speech
refers concerns a capital amounting to no less than
8,000,060/, invested in shipping alone, and 14,000,0004
More invested in those trades which are necessarily con-
nected with shipping—(Hear.) Let us bear in mind
that it is a trade of which the fruits alone amount to
281000,000/. a year, and the annual expenses to
26,000,0004 Without going now into the general ques-
tion, I say, that when a mighty interest like this is cc,n
cerned, I cannot permit the report on the Address to the
throne to pass without entering my protest against
Ministers proceeding, with regard to it, in the same rash
course which has been pursued respecting other im-
portant interests.—(Hear, hear.) Her Majesty has
been pleased to tell us that she has given directions to
have the estimates which are to be laid before us framed
with a careful regard to economy. I rejoice at that in-
formation. I feared that we might have had to listen
sto some proposition for the imposition of new taxes ;
out I hope that I may now cengratulate the country on
her Majesty being able to dispense with the imposition
of any fresh tax upon her subjects. As the property
and income-tax expires in the course of the next
spring, may I not venture to hope that Ministers even
contemplate the possibility of being able to, dispense
With that burden ?—(Hear, and laughter.) For myself,
confess that I cannot see daylight at present. I know
slot what course we can, with safety, pursue, unless it
be that of retracing our steps. The Hon Member for
Lancashire said last night that he could see only one
ray of sunshine to illuminate the gloom and darkness
which surrounded us, and that was to be found in the
circumstance of her Majesty having been whisked along
a railway at the rate of 45 miles an hour.—(A. laugh.)
According to the Hon. Member, her Majesty passed like
a bright star through the darkness; but if he can furnish
us with no greater trope than is afforded by that circum-
stance, I fear that we have only the prospect of a melan-
choly future before us. Oh ! how changed are the,
auspices under which we commence this session as
compared with ,hose under which the session of 1846
egan ! Then, her Majesty permitted her Royal Coe-
sort rtto honour us with his presence in this House, as it
tvs!re,
, sa ell the glory of the pageant—the sort of
brluraap"al procession by which free trade was ushered
u'...cat promises were then made—high expectations
ere- raised. lam surprised at not seeing here in his
eeltee the Hon. Member for the West Riding of York
tatid the borough of Stockport. One might have ex-
pected that Hon. Member to have appeared here to
dace the dangers and difficulties of the present hour. I
think if the Hon. Member were here he would deem it
'his duty to explain how it his happened that all his
Trornises and vows have been broken.—(Hear, hear.)
We know that in 1841 the Hon. Member delivered a
celebrated address, one of those eloquent effusions
tr 'which helped to make up the weight of 416 tons of
acts circulated in the course of the Anti-Corn-law
Ittlitation—to the non-electors of Stockport, in which he
thi ,
dhis audience that it was necessary only to abolish
impious and anti-Christian corn-laws," and in two
months from the passing of the Bill which should
tirect that object, flour would be six farthings
. Pound, whilst there would also be plenty of
o'Pb:ln:tent at advanced wages. The Hon. Mem-
-1," also said that every mill would be going,
-1/4 ever loom in motion,—that new houses, new
ors
. urches,y
and new chapels would arise in all direc-
Ztt°, and, in short, that there would be no limit to
0 prosperity of the manufacturers and their work-
teopio.
The Hon. Member further called upon all
atehr'slian men to put down the impious monopoly which
d said took from each of the persons whom he was
resting fourpence out of every shilling, which four-
Ctice they ought to have to expend in the purchase of
act e°ffee, and clothing. Yes ! the Hon. Member did
took hesitate to declare that the un-Christian corn-law
one-third of their food from the wives and families
of the
ta poor in order to increase the overgrown wealth of
,4„.° Duke of Buckingham and Sir James Graham.—
ingse,ar, hear.) I rejoice to see my Right Hon. Friend
the my
place as large as life.—(A laugh.) I rejoice to
raY Right Hon. Friend looking so well, fresh from
Ilcie contemplation of those hoards of wealth which the
• 13. Member for Stockport gave him credit for possess-
thtwhich is doubtless a more agreeable occupation than
°f bestowing attention upon those miserable free
th.l9 Measures which are now beginning to develop
vrvitr fatal results. I also rejoice to see my Right Hon.
3.4°,4 on the pre (nt occasion, because, if I recollect
have 1 eontempor. neously with the address to which 1
iyo been referring appeared another from my Right.,
• Friend, and his presence here proves that ',A(,;, tins
slot become the victim of an imprecation wh:Lch fie intro-
a7e into that address. My Right Hsas, Friend, in his
certain
to the electors of Durcheste
rtain changes then suggested : expressed his horror
`',„,geste'd by some persons,
and exclaimed--
" May I be cols i -before that dreadful day,
Preened with a load of monumental clay !"
and laughter.) And
•e'rear A
iet d ineAulged thisHon. apostrophe—
st hen thou, imperial Troy, to fate must bend,
(L And see thy warriors fall, thy glories
. end !"
old -dghter.) But to revert to the reties whichf
fwereee
out in 1845—how different areP
ire measures from what we were tau
resultsht t
expect
era
I,C were promised prosperity and happingesa,,;stepad of
peoplwe see nothing but ruined employers and starving
e . .
just --starving in the midst of Plenty—for have we
„,est
.thanked Almighty God for the bounteous hat
under ilow different was the position of the country
Pursue the Protective system, when we were content to
the el! (iar Prosperous and wealth-making industry in
trade- winds of national and colonial protection !
tbst,l
prase
hear.‘
J Then came the day when, unfortunately,
trade d
't Were i„lth, er:mmerce of this country—wantoning, as
with ts;ei, tl'-eir very wealth and prosperity—not content
to the -enefits which they possessed, must needs listen
Alsr.• '`.4,ductive language of the Right Hon. Baronet the
s'oer for Tamworth, and the Hon. Member for
"°thPor
they , and to abandon the solid advantages which
(Rear for the meretricious tinsel of free trade.—
' tic, ' "ear.) Now how changed is their state!
I,;', like a Younker or a prodigal,
/1": scarped balk puts from her native bay,
negg'cl and embraced by the strumpet wind!
rawc like a prodigal doth she return
Lh Over-weather'd ribs and ragged sails,
T.74°, rent, and beggar'd by the strumpet wind."
the Zd J. RUSSELL—Before I allude to the speech of
zie We Lord, I wish to make a few remarks in
thu:wtior to the observations made in a temperate tone by
in n• Member for Middlesex, who inquired respect-
g certain
measures proposed by the Government. One
w.7411_r • respecting which the Hon. Member inquired
at passed in the last session of the last Perlis-
t4ent, for
advancinlang money for the improvement of
tra:n ti propert
__lir y . The Hon. Member asked why that
e had not been acted upon? I can assure hies
that all the persons engaged in carrying that measure
44t0 effect have given their best attention to the subject,
aild h h,,
ofhappy to say that more than a million and a
that7money has been applied for under that Act.
Of
and giutin.s more than half a million has been sanctitned,
evident,... therefore, that the Act is in full
Hear, hear.) Of course there were many
P slinnnary inquiries t,o be made—of course there wer
forms connected with the advance of money on the
security of estates whicyhpeirteeweas necessary to comply
bseeare disappointed be-
with, and no doubt man
cause the advances have not ade at an earlier
period; but, advances to the amountilimhave stated having
been sanctioned, it is to be presumed that th
money will be properly applied, and be the means e
giving. increased employment to the people of Irelandof
during the present winter.—(Hear.) The lion. Membr
toleo referred to the Encumbered Estates Bill. That
!_esa.sure was withdrawn towards the close of the last
esssiion, partly on account of the advanced period of the
on and partly because of a very strong opposition
m
winch sprung up against it on the part of some parties
o h:
Ittaho were interested in it. That subject has° a
hared
the attention of the Government, and a
ll
ing a similar object to that of last session will be "I
troduced into this or the other House of Parliament. mi.
nleh the greatest importance to a measure of that
ti- la my opinion one of the greatest evils of Ireland
115 the 110minal possession of estates by persons who he men 'Aetna of improving them and doing justice to their
tVants--(Hear, hear.) In many instances persons in
at situatin, having large estates without the means of
improving them, would be able, by selling a part, to
Voa_lte the remainder far more valuable. With reference
Memigration, which was also referred to by the Hon.
ember, I have generally held that emigration is useful
b'el.t Subsidiary measure in some respects, but I do nodt
wile)," that there is that over-population in Irelan
ture— anme persons allege. I believe that if agricul-
eouj Which is the great branch of industry in that
lurY, were to means in
with skill and science,
ati.e...r.!) exist the means in Ireland of supporting, not only
417(1,371! but even a greater population than it has hitherto
which will hear.) There is another measure
ei will be introduced in the course of the session,
torws.l.Y,
_a Bill for the amendment of the grand jury
ita(terear, hear.) That is a measure which vvill
fYre
.su h tend to the improvement of the country.
same
limo,
subject of vast importance, and, at the
tht, ,so difficult for the Legislature to deal with,
to it,
4ndalthoughhave
we have devoted the greatest attention
ye gone over the details of a Bill, I will
only
at Present!inns: ht,i,c_ that we hope to be able to introduce
~,w13171 embodied regulations which ap-
pear r
I.) consistent with the improvement of the
deiMe "1 '! ote, feted, tied with ih(_, on-
ouil, end led( feasibi,: rights of property,
se, r'—(llear, Les;.) I allude to the Brest
teosnll'l'L'" of es the relatio between ,a I look back to what has happened in ir-elitt'id,
find that for ninety years the questions of sub-
15teu0e, of Poverty, and of crime, in that country have

been more or less mixed up with the question of re-
hitions between landlord and tenant. The most vio-
lent outrages hare been met with the severest penal-
- but we have never placed landlords and tenants
in a position in which they could respectively en-
ti:rtain feehugs of kindness and confidence towarJs
each other, although the relations of landlord and tenant

are those in which such feelings are most especially re-
quisite.—(Hear, hear.) I say that this question of land-
lord and tenant has been one of the difficulties in the
n•ay of legislation for ninety years. It existed before
the agitation for the removal of the Roman Catholic dis-
abilities—before the agitation for reform—and almost
belore the agitation of the tithe question. I can assure
the House it is with apprehension as well as hope I
approach the consideration of this question. The Go-
vernment is devoting its earnest attention to the subject;
but we have to lament with reference to this as well as

I other questions, that we are deprived of the advice and
' counsel of my late lamented friend Lord Besborough.
His Lordship informed me that, although he had sketched
a plan on this difficult subject, which he thought might
be embodied in an Act of the Legislature, yet he should
t not like the measure to be brought forward without his
being in his place in Parliament to explain its details.
Unfortunately my Noble Friend's illness prevented
our ever knowing what were the views which he
entertained on the subject. I hope I have said enough
to show that we are.not liable to the charge which the
Honourable Member rather insinuated than formally
preferred, of having coercion alone in view, unac-
companied by remedial measures. I feel now as strongly
as I ever felt that that would be a totally mistaken po-
licy. Ide think, hewever, that it is our primary duty to
check those atrocines crimes which we have lately heard
of in Ireland. I conceive this to be necessary, if for no
other purpose than, to protect the introduction of capital
and improvement which is so essential to the progres-
sive prosperity of Ireland. When Gentlemen express
their regret that English capital is not introduced into
Ireland for the purpose of effecting improvements in the
cultivation of the hind, they should bear in mind that it
is in vain to hope that this should take place as long as
crimes of such magnitude and atrocity continue to be
committed in that country. I should hope, therefore,
that if we are successful in checking crime, that circutn-
cumstance may be 'placed among those things which will
tend to improve the social condition of Ireland. I will say
no more about that measure, because in a very few days
my Right Hon. Friend (Sir G. Grey) will have an op-
portunity of explaining its character to the House. With
respect to the Noble Lord (Lord G. Bentinck) I must awn
that the phrase of that statesman for whom the Noble Lord
has always professed great admiration—Mr. Canning—
" a great deal of good indignation thrown away,"—
seems to me to be very applicable to a good deal of the
Noble Lord's speech. I thonght that when the Right
Hon. Gentleman, whoisits next him (Mr. Herries), asked
for an explanation of the arrangements between the
Bank of England and the Government, and of the mea
sures lately taken by which the law might have been
infringed; and when my Right Hon. Friend (the Chan•
cellor of the Exchequer) said that, the House having
gone so fully into Irish matters, it would be better to
postpone the discussion on that subject until Tuesday
next,—l thought, I say, that this was a very fair ar-
rangement, and that, as the Right Hon. Gentleman, who
is as competent a judge as anybody, seemed satisfied
with it, we should hare heard no more of the subject till
Tuesday. If the Right Hon. Gentleman or the Noble
Lord had said last night that they wished the debate to
be adjourned, or that on the report of the Address this
luestion should be fully discussed, my Right Honour-
able Friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer)
could have been ready to take that course, both be-
cause he has no personal interest in the matter, and
eecause, having had his mind directed to the subject
,or the last six weeks, he would have been as well pre_
pared yesterday or to-day to make all necessary explana-
tions on the part of the Government as he will be on
Tuesday next.—(Hear, hear.) And yet the Noble
Lord seems to be hardly recovered, even now, from one
indignation which he expressed with respere's to the
course pursued by my Right Hon. Frieeel The Noble
Lord, however, has taken this opportunity to go very
much further than that particular measure of which he
appears to complain, but of which I do not know, even
at this moment, whether he complains or not. We
thought it necessary, at a moment of great emergency,
ea recommend to the directors of the Bank of England
co advance their notes upon approved secarities, telling
them at the same time that if thereby the Act of 1844
should be infringed, we would then come to Parliament
and ask for an indemnity. Having done so, we thought
it our duty to advise her Majesty to summon Parlia
ment at the earliest possible period, in order that we
might state to Parliament what had been done, and en-
able us to meet any consequences which might have
ensued from the step which was taken. If our conduct
was wrong—if it was likely to lead to public injury—if
j it was on a slight or fanciful occasion that we thought
j it advisable to recommend a suspension of the hiw, the
Noble Lord has it in his power to propose a resolution
to the House to that effect. We do not, however,
think that we have failed in our duty to the country or
the Crown by recommending this course—(Hear, hear)
—and yet, because we propose to postpone discussion on
the subject from one Tuesday to another, the Noble
Lord seems to think 'slate we wish to avoid explanation.
can assure theT;ebleLord that he shall have all the
explanation on •:tatit subject which he can desire, and an
account both, of the causes which led to the adoption of
the inFase and of the consequences which have flowed
from Those consequences have shown that we were
wec mistaken ix the step which was taken. Those con-
sequences have shown that, consistently with maintain-
tog the convertibility of the bank-note, we could main-
tain public confidence, which had been very seriously
impaired.—(Cheers.) The Noble Lord alludes particu •
lardy to the deputation from Liverpool, and evidently
has mistaken the sense of the answer which I gave to
that deputation. Of course it was not for me, while the
matter was under 'deliberation, to state any step which
had not been adopted by the Government. I told them,
-' At the present moment I see no public advantage in
interfering with the conduct of the Bank, but the Go-
vernment do not preclude themselves from taking any
neasure which at any moment they may think conducive
to the public interests."—(Cheers.) That was my answer
to the deputation • and when the deputation proposed that
two gentlemen of their number should call upon me on the
following day, for the purpose of ascertaining whether
there would be any change in the intentions of the Go-
vernment, I said, " I can hold out no hope to-morrow
which I do not holdout to-day."—(Hear.) The Noble Lord
has gone into a great deal of declamation, as I think,
but in which I shall not follow him, with respect to our
proposing a certain rate of interest to the Bank, the rate
of interest at that time demanded by the Bank and by
many private parties being, I believe, 7,8, or 9 per
cent. My belief is now, that in our naming that rate of
interest consisted the safety of the measure which we
authorised—(Heer, hear)—and that if, as the Noble
Lord seems to think we ought to have done, we had ad-
vised a general issue of bank notes at 41. 15s. or Si. per
cent. interest, we should have increased that want of
confidence which it was the object of the Government to
diminish. That is all I shall say on that part of tha
subject.—(Hear, hear.) But the Noble Lord has thought
it proper on this occasion to raise a kind of song of
triumph on the calamitous situation of the country, and
the extreme prosperity of foreign commerce. The Noble
Lord has spoken of the French loan. We had ourselves,
some time ago, occasion to borrow a large sum, and the
terms on which the loan was contracted were 891. 10s.,
while the French Government only obtained 75 francs
25 centimes. That circumstance does not show that our
financial situation is so bad as the Noble Lord repre-
sents it. But then the Noble Lord went on, without
any show of reason for the assertion, to speak of the
calamities which had occurred, and of their connexion
with free trade. So far as I observed his reasoning, I
was reminded of the old labourer who discovered in Ten-
terden steeple the cause of the Goodwin Sands.—
(A. laugh.) There have been free-trade mea-
sures, it is true, and there has been great
depression in trade ; but the connexion between the
two the Noble Lord has failed to establish. Have there
been no other periods of depression in this country ? In
the year 1793, to which the Noble Lord himself has
alluded, was there not a period of commercial depression
and panic ? And yet, at that time, those laws and du-
ties which we have since abrogated existed in full force ;
and the laws of protectioa did not prevent that depres-
sion and revulsion of trade which this country has many
times witnessed. I agree with the Noble Lord, partly,
in what he says with respect to railroads. I have never
attributed so much importance as others have done to
the effect which they have produced upon the money
market. Undoubtedly, railroads are among the causes
of the panic and distress which have been felt ; but, to
attribute the whole revulsion and distress to,the railroads
is, I think, attaching an exaggerated importance to them.
Unfortunately, Sir, whether you have protection or free
trade in this, eotilitry, make your laws as you will, regu-
late your callow), as you please, it happens that this
country,-wh*" it: rises to a state of great prosperity,
rushes :on "e prsgeipitatolY to build a system of
artificial Bit et A.ctitious credit, which is sure, at
soultS-Xnelneriteif other, to bring down depression and a
revtditioit or, that prosperity. I fear that this state of
thangs is andeparable from that enterprise by which
our tnerchants are distinguished. The reason why the
Plihie.was stzt:grecat and extensive is, that there is no
country withetrahsactions so large as ours affected as
this country entist be by events which take place in
different quaiters of the world, which no one could have
foreseen or imagined. It was said a long time ago by
Lord Chatham that the credit of this country was a
sensitive plant, which shrank from the touch; and, if
this were true in the time of Lord Chatham, what is the
so much
case,rate th
case now, when the substantial wealth of the country is
inuc
aa
tin
and i was
engagementsas at that time? i
haveme?
which are beyond the immediately available capital of
Well,been mt then, n 1
if that
the country, there must, in consequence of that undue
extension, be a panic and collapse, during which the
country must undergo a considerable degree of suffering.
The Noble Lord has told us of the scarcity of cotton at
Liverpool, and that that is a consequence of free trade.
Does he mean to tell us that, Liverpool being a depot
for cotton, foreign merchants resort there to buy it
at the market price, and that as a consequence,
speculations in cotton are unduly braced up? I should
have thought that the fact of their being there
was 'rather an advantage than otherwise, and that
the circumstance of their purchasing cotton when the
market was low was a circumstance which the Liver pool
traders would not look unfavourably upon. But is the
Lord,that and
made by the
complaint
cotton wool have been admitted at a low duty ? Why,
a bag time ago, when there was a duty of 60 to 80 per
cent., we were sending those
goods into the markets of
Asia and America, and competing with the foreigner in
I can hardly
' 'sere erotection was of no value.
t.
petecs e
that it is In respect of these er it,a„
imagine, tiwrefore,
c,•
that the Noble Lord's cornpluints
e- against free
.trade 8,
\V 1!, thin, is tt cat if.---( fi fee) I lees the
:actAle Lord mean to say that he complains of the ad-
mission of foreign corn during the past year? Does he
in this
mean to say that there is any class of statesmen

House, or in the country, who are so determined on pro-
tection, that when wheat is at 110 s. the quarter, they
would impose on it a prohibitory duty ?—(Cheers.)
Even under the Act of 1828, of which the Noble Lord
has been heard to express his admiration, when wheat
was 725. or 735. a quarter, foreign corn was admissible
at ls. a quarter duty.
Lord G. BENTINCK—I never expressed any admira-
tion of the Act of 1828.
Lord J. RUSSELL—I am mistaken, then, in that re-
spect. Perhaps the Noble Lord is in favour of a more
prohibitory law.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) But still
the Noble Lord is called on to explain whether, when
wheat is at 110 s. the quarter, he would still have a duty
of 20s. or 30s.' imposed upon it. It is evident that
such a system could not be maintained, and it is
equally evident that in admitting corn duty free we had
the assent of this House, and of the other House of Par-
liament, and of ',every rational man in the country.-=-.
(Cheers.) And if you have to send out of the country
many millions of gold to pay for it, yet a state of
famine and scarcity is such that you must get corn
wherever it is to be bought, ,and admit it duty free.
That state of circumstances, however, has nothing to
do with the question of free trade, but has entirely
arisen out of an unavoidable emergency. But then the
Noble Lord goes on to complain that tea, coffee, and
sugar are at very low prices, and that traders are obliged
to sell those articles at a loss. That, again, Sir, is not
the fault of free trade. Free trade does not oblige
gentlemen to import articles at a loss, The whole
matter is a speculation of their owns They may have
mistaken the price at which those articles may be sold,
but free trade leaves them to their own calculations of
loss and profit. Surely, this is far better than laying it
down by Act of Parliament ist what prices articles shall
be sold. It is by no means, I assure the Noble Lord, a
sine qua non of free trade that these gentlemen shall
import at a loss or continue to sell without reasonable
profit. Now, then, with regard to the actual state of
the country. The Noble Lord thinks that the waht of
protection toad the laws relating to the currency have
brought us into a state which ho called no less than a
state of shame, bankruptcy, and disgrace.—(Hear, hear.)
I should be very sorry if these terms were applicable to
the condition of this country, but I do not consider that
they are by any means applicable to it. I consider the
condition of the country to be owing, to a great extent,
to the spirit which, if railways had not been the object,
would probably have taken some other course of ex-
penditure, and to the import of food to the amount of
not less than 30,000,0001. sterling; and it is owing to
this and other c.rcumstances that we have had a great
revulsion of trade, and that great distress has fallen on
the commercial and manufacturing world. But Ido not
for an instant give credit to the statement that we are
in a position of shame, bankruptcy, or disgrace, or that
we shall not rise again.—(Hear, hear.) I do not
believe that the intelligence and energy of British
merchants and manufacturers, with the advantage of a
change of duties, will not again enable theta to enter into
competition with any nation of the world.—(Cheers.,) I
decline o n t hs
aonfd
rn ia whichcalamity, that at
ht
etbi s
Noblec o uLn
Lord
isw nt ht ha agt
osot
da t e o
dealf
do not find, although the last two months have
been
m
of exultation apparently, speaks about. I find that in
the nine months ending on the 10th of October, 1845, the
declared value of British and Irish exports was
41,732,0001. ; in the same nine months of 1846,
40,008,0004 ; and in 1847, 39,975,0004 l so that, al-
though there is a falling off, it is not such a falling off as
should inspire a man with despondency about our future
prospects. It is a severe, but at the same time, a
were, tem-
qoou3arze ; quarters
and en
tem-
porary calamity. I find, also, that the exports from
States,lo to
o October,ere, for tBh4e6, three
4,030,
Liverpool of British manufattured goods, to the United
fordi thngensatinhoe
period in 1847, 6,291,0171. ; making a difference
in favour bi the exports of manufactured goods
during;
,ne present year of 2,261,014/. That shows
Lb
-st, according to the wholesome operations of trade
and exchange, the food which we have brought
to this country in greater quantities than usual
has been the cause of greater exports of our manu-
factures.—(Hear, hear.) It is to that export of manu-
factures—to the return of the gold which we have sent
abroad—to the state of the exchanges, and to several
other circumstances of favourable augury, that I look,
not for the immediate restoration of prosperity, but for
the gradual restoration of a better state of things, and
from that to our wonted and former prosperity.—
(Cheers.) The Noble Lord has spoken of the esti-
mates, and says that her Majesty has promised that
they shall be framed in accordance with the strictest
rules of economy. The words of the Queen's Speech,
however, are that " they will be framed with a careful
regard to the exigencies of the public service."—(Hear,
hear, and a laugh.) I can assure the Noble Lord, and
I must assure the House, that if the revenue in some
of its principal branches should be in a declining state,
and there should be anything wanting which we
might think essential for the defence of the country, or
for any other purpose, we shall not be deterred by any
fear of not meeting with the approval of the House
from asking for such supplies as may be necessary.
And I say, perhaps unnecessarily, that we shall not be
deterred by any fear of the disapprobation of this
House, because I believe it is the character of this House
to give such supplies for the public service as to enable
these realms to be furnished with all proper means of
defence, and the State to be maintained as it has been
hitherto maintained.—(Hear.) With these views, there-
fore, I differ much from the Noble Lord. I agree with
him only in the facts which relate to the present state of
difficulty and embarrassment. That there never was so
gloomy a Speech I do not agree, and I am sure there
have been many periods in the history of this country
much more gloomy—(Hear, hear)—but I have always
found, and I have always read, in times when I took no
part in public life, that by the energy and spirit of this
country those periods of difficulty have been surmounted.
I believe that this period of difficulty will be surmounted;
I will not say by the wisdom of the measures of the
Government, but by the energy and noble character of
the nation; but so far as going along with it, approving
of its efforts, and not desponding of its fortunes, I will
say that the Government will not prove itself unworthy
of the nation.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. G. R. ROBINSON said his experience told him
that in every fresh difficulty and crisis of this sort the
country did not recover its elasticity and return to the
same advantageous and prosperous condition it was in
before, as the Noble Lord seemed to imagine. But how
was it that, after a period of 32 years of uninterrupted
peace, they found themselves in a condition which,
without any despondency, was, in his opinion, infinitely
more discouraging than any other he recollected ?
(Hear, hear.) Looking to the advantages we possessed,
if we used them rightly, and to the enterprise of our
merchants, he was not ore to take a desponding view of
the future ; but he would tell the Government if they
relied too much on the energy of the people, and that
energy was not assisted and supported by the Govern-
ment, the country would continue to retrograde, as it
had done for several years past. With respect to the
navigation laws, he had looked with much attention to
the precise words in her Majesty's Speech on the
subject, and he did not object to them. He did not
object to inquiry into those law's, with a view to consider
whether any or what relaxation or modification
might be made in them applicable to the existing state
of things and the maintenance of the maritime interests
of this country and its dependencies. He would not
be tempted, at such a time as that, to go into any
discussion, but he would implore the House not to con-
sider the present state of things as one to be lightly
passed over. He was glad to find that the Government
intended to appoint a Committee of inquiry, and that the
inquiry was to be general; for nothing but a searching
and faithful inquiry into the complicated difficulties by
which the country was surrounded would, in his opi-
nion, afford the slightest chance of relief from its em-
barrassment. If such an inquiry was made, and the
Government was sincere, and not imposed on by those
notions which the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) must
have imbibed from persons less informed than himself,
and by those fanciful theories with which the free-
traders had for many years deluded the country, he be-
lieved that the state of things would recover, and pros-
perity would be restored. He had not yet seen the
Hon. Member for Stockport in the House, but he should
like to ask him whether the predictions he had made as to
the benefits the manufacturers were likely to derive from
free trade had been fulfilled. The manufacturers might
suffer the last, but they would not suffer the least,
and he would tell them, that if they were so selfish as
to call for the withdrawal of protection first from
agriculture, then from the West India Colonies, in the
cultivation of sugar, and afterwards from the shipping
interest, the mischief that would fall upon those several
interests would afterwards fall upon themselves. As a
test of our commercial policy, he looked to the condition
of the labouring classes, and in his opinion no class had
a deeper interest in opposing the principles of free trade
than the labouring population of the country.
Mr. HUME was surprised that any Hon. Member
with the information of his Hon. Friend could stand up
in that House and question the allegation of the Noble
Lord (Lord J. Russell), that from every great commer-
cial crisis the country had gradually recovered, and re-
gained its former state of prosperity. His Hon. Friend
was chairman of a society in which the shipping interest
was much concerned, and he would find, that whilst in
1825 the number of British ships was 19,000, and the
tonnage 2,000,000, the tonnage was now 3,000,000, and
the number of ships had increased in proportion. Again,
let his Hon. Friend look around him in every town, and
especially in this metropolis, and see how great an ac-
cession of houses and addition to every kind of property
there had been, and then how could he say that things
had not recovered ? His Hon. Friend had referred to the
navigation laws. lf his Hon. Friend would read the evi-
dence taken before the Committee
,is the last session, he
would see that those laws were more detrimental to the
shipping interest than anything else. Wherever pro-
tection had been removed a beneficial effect had been
produced. So long as the silk trade was confined to
_
s, and composition
was excluded, they heard
Spitalfield
every two or three years of distress amongst the weavers,
and of subscriptions for their relief, but when a change
took place in the trade, and competition was admitted,
they heard no longer of that distress. It would be the
been more
same with the shipping interest. None had
frequently spoken of as a losing interest for two or three
years together, and then it took a spurt. He mast,
therefore, express his regret that his Hon. Friend should
venture upon such opinions • as he had expressed. The
Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell), in answer to a remark
of the Noble Lord opposite, had brought forward a
statement of the exportation of cotton. Why, did the
Noble Lord opposite know that in 1825, from ex-
cessive speculation, when the Bank could do what
it pleased, cotton was raised from 10d. a pound
to 15d. and 18d. ; and what was the quantity
of cotton imported ? In 1824 it was 149,000,0001 b. ;
in 1925, 992,000,0001 b. ; and in 1926. 177,000,0001 b.
qud what tf)(.lc place 1 His Honourable Friend
behind him, %yip) was lately Pret,idoit, of the Chamber
Commerce at Manchester, would recollect the fact that
the merchants, instead of exporting cotton at a loss of
2d. per lb., were obliged to export it at a loss of

ls. per pound. That was a necessary effect of over-
speculation. Whether the Bank was tinder restriction
or not, after a period of gradual progress towards pros-
perity, the degree to which credit rose was of itself one
of the causes of the evils that followed. Would his Hon.
1 Friend opposite venture to say that half-a-dozen or a
dozen of the largest houses that had recently failed were
wealthy ? Why, many of them had been in a state of
bankruptcy for years. It was only the state of the
country that exposed their condition, and prevented
greater evils. Nothing could be more unfortunate than
the existence of such large concerns, possessing great
credit, and thereby interfering with the prudent and at-
tentive man of business. With the credit they possessed
they had sustained themselves for years; but, when he
saw one house failing for 1,000,0001, another for
1,500,0001, and a third for 500,000/, he would venture to
say, that if they would look to the manner in Which those
debts had accrued, not ono in ten of those houses ought
to have been in existence ten years ago. It was for the
benefit of commerce that they should be removed. He
was sorry for tb.;.. i;
Lerna, and that the failures should
take place all at once, for he would rather that those
houses had gradually decreaaed and declined without
coming together to that result which had spread alarm
in the country, and which was most dangerous to the
credit of small dealers and men who went on in a mode-
rate manner. One of the best means of restoring things
to a prosperous state was to prevent extravagance in the
public service ; to bring them within a proper limit.
He was always for paying
well those who did serve
the public ; but not those whom they did not want. He
would, for instance, save 1,500,000/. by doing away with
the absurd blockade of the coast of Africa, and he hoped
before any attempt Was made to renew the income-
tax, a proper explanation would be given why the
people of England were put to such an expense.
He had moved for a return which would show the
House the enormous amount this country had paid
and which had only ended in an aggravation
of the horrors of the slave trade, and he could not
think that the time was far distant when the country
would put an end to that expense. He had believed it
was most mischievous, and that for every slave that
would, but for their interference, have been destroyed
on the coast of Africa, they
were at that moment the
murderers of some 50,000 or 60,000. So fix from the
cause of humanity having in any way been served by
their proceedings and so-called precautions on the coast
of Africa, the slaves Wert ttbw crowded in smaller ves-
sels than ever before were used, and the horrors con-
tinually perpetrated for the purpose of avoiding detec-
tion exceeded anything that had ever been known even in
the worst days of the slave trade. That trade had
become it mere matter of smuggling—man smuggling—
and, while he agreed heartily with those who said that
it ought to be put down, no matter at what cost, he
protested against the absurd course they were at this
moment taking to attain that philanthropic end. Let
those measures be at once adopted which would make
free labour Cheaper than slave labour and their purpose
was accomplished.—(Hear.) He meat entirely agreed
with the Noble Lord at the head of the Government in
thinking that this was one of those ordinary and occa-
sional calamities which, be their legislation what it
might, would be perpetually checking the , progress of a
country situated as was England. The point was to as
certain in this instance what was the real as well as the
proximate cause of the disaster. He bated all restric-
tions on banks; ho was for freo trade in that as in every
other direction—(Hear, hear.) He had stated, at the
time when the Act of 1844 was under discussion, that it
was bad in principle, because it pretended to provide a
standard, and did, in effect, make the bank of issue a
separate establishment, and he had then prophecied,
what had since proved true, that it would utterly fail in
obviating such a season of distress as this at certain in-
tervals. It seemed to him the most inexcusable incon
sistency to grant to every man in the kingdom power to
pursue any particular trade or trades without restraint
and then, at the same moment, to limit ruinously those
exchanges by which only any negotiations could be car-
ried on. He was not of opinion, nevertheless, that the
recent measure of the Government was a wise one. It
had practically had little effect beyond removing an un-
founded degree of distrust and alarm; it had not added
one shilling to the capital of the country and no man in
reality found himself one whit the richer in conse-
quence. He therefore regretted that, great as the emer-
gency was, the Government had had recourse to such an
invasion, not to say infringement of the law; the prece-
dent was bad, and if often followed would leave them
without any security at all for the stability of systems
which had been deliberately approved of by the nation.—
(Hear, hear.) Though not approving of this part of
the policy of her Majesty's Ministers, he would not op-
pose the Address. It was with the greatest satisfaction
he had listened to the explanation of the Noble Lord
that he was opposed to asking from Parliament any ex-
traordinary powers for the enforcement of the law upon
the population of various districts in Ireland. lie (Mr.
Hume) had, throughout, resisted every attempt to over-
awe a people, and to maintain that profitless system of
coercion in which statesmen once found their only re-
source. He cordially concurred in all the observations
made on this subject the preceding evening by the lion.
Member for Northamptonshire (Mr. Stafford). Cer-
tainly that House was called upon to grant to the Go-
vernment every assistance in putting down the crimes
in passing
i
which disgraced some parts of Ireland—(hear, hear)—
and it would be their duty also,
measures of that nature, to takeinto consider.
ation the means which were wanting to ensure
the future and permanent prosperity of that country.—
(Hear, hear.) In the Speech addressed to Parliament
last session by her Majesty she directed attention to
the " permanent condition of Ireland ;" in the Speech
of this session not one word was said upon that topic ;
and this omission would lead to the belief that nothing
was intended to be done for the permanent establish-
ment of order and the effectual creation of wealth in
the sister kingdom. An lion. Gentleman had alluded to
the state of the church in Ireland. Thirty years ago he
(Mr. Hume) had spoken of the abolition of the Esta-
blishment in Ireland as the only remedy for the discon-
tent of the majority of the people ; and if so late as
1824 that step had been taken, if the privileges con-
ceded to Scotland and England were extended to Ire-
land, and if the Roman Catholics, as the majority,
had been relieved from the predominance of the religion of
the minority, there would mow have been no cry for the
repeal of the union. The Protestant Members of Parlia-
ment were the most strenuous in their opposition to such
a course; they said, " We who have property in Ireland
know best, let us alone ; we are the proper judges of
what is wanted." They had been left alone, and what
was the result? Why that that property hadbeen swept
away or rendered unproductive, which, had the people
been contented, happy, and prosperous, would have in-
creased tenfold in value.—(gear, hear.) This, then, was
the time to get rid of the all-absorbing evil of Ireland.
Let the Church Establishment be at once got rid of,
and let the people be placed on the same footing and
equality as the people of England. It would be with
great reluctance that he would be induced to give his
consent to a Coercion Bill, and the only reason why he
would give up his aversion to such a course was the con-
fidence he placed in the Earl of Clarendon. The conduct
of that Nobleman in Ireland had been admirable, and he
was assuredly as fit to be entrusted with extraordinary
powers as any Viceroy he
(Mr. Hume) had seen in his
time. It was a matter of regret that the Noble Lord in
the course of his speech had not given the House some
account of the result of our interference with Por
tugal and of our proceedings in Spain.—(Hear, hear.)
Perhaps the Noble Lord at the head of the Foreign-
office was sorry that he had not left his neighbours to
fight out their own quarrels ; and if he would look to
the history of the last nine or ten years, he would find
that in every case in which we had intermeddled with
the internal concerns of neighbouring countries to the
neglect of our own, whatever might be the momentary
éclat attending our generosity, permanent and essential
injury had been done both to the people interested and
to ourselves.—(Cheers.) And then it was well to re-
member that we could not afford such interference. The
fleet which we were now maintaining in the Tagus for
the support of the rotten Government of Portugal--
(Hear, hear)—cost us at least 1,000,000/ a-year ; and
the expenses of our navy, which was principally in
requisition by other powers, were at this moment most
unreasonably high. In conclusion, he begged to say
that with these reservations he would agree to the
Address, and to the report; and he trusted in a short
time to see, by the co-operation of the Government
with the industrious people of this country, our trade
again flourishing, and our prosperity as well founded
and undoubted as it had been three years ago.
Mr. G. BANKES regretted that the Hon. Member for
Montrose had not mentioned some of those nations which
he declared were so anxious to follow our example, and
to reciprocate with us the blessings of free trade. The
Republic of the Equator might probably be induced to
imitate us; but where was the second?—(Hear, hear.)
The Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Tamworth,
in introducing his measures, had promised us the alliance
and assistance of Naples and Prussia, and that was aIL
Prussia, it was announced, was already shaken ; and
Naples, even then, had entered into a treaty of recipro-
city. The state of Naples, events had proved, was not
in a condition greatly to benefit us; and if Prussia was
really shaken it shook as the needle did, returning ever
to the pole—that pole being its own interest, and that
beyond
result,beY though it might be
Naples, judging
interest consisting in a hostile tariff.—(gear, hear.) In
the absence, then, of any decided information as to those
nations which had been influenced by our policy, and
p lanyesby hopesthe
admitted the experiment was not yet fully tried, they
of unable
free-trade entertain
princi
(the Protectionists) must be permitted to say that the
prophecies which were so liberally indulged in at the
time of the passing of free-trade measures had been
most signally falsified.—(Hear, hear.) They were
told they might expect all speculation in corn
to be put an end to, uniformity in price to be
secured, and an exportation of our manufactures in pro-
portion to the quantity of food they imported. How had
these predictions been fulfilled? The first houses that
had failed, and that had opened this career of calamity,
had been in the corn trade, and were those houses whose
fate was so well deserved!—(Hear.) At no time, in fact
in the history of trade, had there been such speculation
in corn as immediately after the consent of Parliament
had been given to a trial of free trade, and so far there-
fore their hopes had been grievously disappointed. At
no time had there been greater fluctuations in prices-
-455. in August, and 120 s. in May—and as to the third
prophecy, how lamentably had it been demonstrated to
be false. The Right Hon. Baronet promised that if
foreign corn was poured in on them, the increase in the
exportation of articles of their own manufacture should
be proportionate, and when it was urged that we would
have to pay in gold, the reply was, " So much the
better." Was it so much the better? Had our manu-
factures gone forth?—(" They have.") Have they?—
at what price?—(Laughter.) Surely that was some
element in the calculations cf nialluteeluiens--:::urely it
\vas also of some conztquenee to the Qixrative if lit;
the same quantity of gold he had to exchange
twice as much of the manufactured article as
formerly.—(Cheers.) The price was to be considered;

by that price they had lost, and from the loss every
inhabitant of the manufacturing districts was now suf
• fering. For these reasons ho was entitled to say that
their free-trade prophecies so far had failed. Another
signal proof of the shortsightedness of their vaticina
t dons wns to be found in the working of the Bank Charter
Act. It was declared with regard to that panic of 1825,
adverted to by the Hon. Member for Montrose, that such
a calamity could never recur while the Act of 1844 was
in operation. Yet, after three years, after a full trial
had been given to it, and despite such a wholesome re-
medial measure, another season of panic, more ruinous
than any which preceded, had startled them, and that
Government, some Members of which—the Chancellor
of the Exchequer certainly—were disciples of the Right
Honourable Baronet (Sir R. Peel), had found it neces-
sary in a temporary pressure to give way, and to
suspend a measure which, instead of preventing calamity.
only increased commercial distress when it was occa-
sioned.—(Hear.) The Hon. Member for Montrose din
not appear to think that suspension had done any good
beyond restoring credit. Why, a country lilt© this
lived upon credit. An eminent statesman had said in
that House, that credit, if not the sun, was at least
the sunshine. Their sun was now gone, for their
gold, under the operation of their law, had been all
exported, and they must look for their sunshine in
whatever quarter they thought it likely to be found.—
(Cries of "Bear, hear.") lie was of opinion the Go-
vernment had done well in getting that little degree of
credit for the nation; they had, indeed, much to answer
for that they had not done so much sooner, before a
number of great firms had fallen. Was it for the Go-
vernment to select who should and who should not fall?
The Honourable Member for Montrose had said that
there were some ten or twelve of these firms that ought
not to have stood—that ought to have given way sooner;
but would the Government adopt that line of argument?
If that had been their policy, let them say so; but, if
not, they were answerable to these mercantile houses,
and to the people who were dependent upon them, for
the ruin they had allowed to fall upon them.—(Hear.
hear.) The-Right lion. Baronet, the Home Secretary,
was understood to deny the statement that had appeared
in the public papers, to the effect that he, as the repre-
sentative of one of the northern counties, had been the
immediate cause and instrument of the very proper pro-
ceeding which the Government had taken, but which
they had resisted so long, standing out against all other
applications from London, from Liverpool, from New-
castle, and other places, but yielding at last to
the urgency of those connected with the col-
lieries.—(Hear, hear.) No one who knew the Right
lion. Baronet could for one moment suppose that ho had
been impelled by any but the most honourable motives
in any share he might have had in the course taken by
the Government—(Cheering)—there must have been
some peculiar urgency to induce the Government to do
at once what they had before refused so obstinately and
denyingly. The House ought to have heard from the
Noble Lord, and ought that night to hear from one of
the members of the Government, what had been the
peculiar circumstances which had led them at last to do
what they had refused at first ; and also why, when
once they thought that course right, they had not taken
it sooner.—(Hear, hear.) The lion. Member for Mon-
trose had blamed the Government for having violated
the law, but the Hon. Member was a supper ter of the
present Government ; and if he continued to support
them, he must make up his mind to get used to such
violations; for twice during the two years they had been
`n office, when the Right Hon. Gentleman the President
of the Board of Trade was Chief Secretary for Ireland,
last year, he had taken upon himself a responsibility of
that kind, and now the Right Hon. the Chancellor
of the Exchequer had taken the same course. The
Honourable Member for Montrose must lecture his
friends if he was so particular as to violations of the
law, for it had not happened to any Ministry, he (Mr.
Bankes) recollected, that twice within two years they
should have taken upon themselves the responsibility of
acting contrary to the express dictates of the law. He
was, however, ready to give his sanction to the violation
of the law in this case, and perhaps he might be ready
to go further than a temporary violation.—(Hear, hear.)
He had no doubt that a great degree of additional cala-
mity had been prevented by the degree of credit given
by the knowledge that the law might be violated. The
allusion to this matter had, moreover, been introduced
into her Majesty's Speech in a very unusual and un-
precedented way; for her Majesty was made to appear
the original propounder of this proposition of disobe-
dience to the law. The words in the Speech were—" Her
Majesty, for the purpose of restoring confidence, autho-
rised her Ministers to recommend to the directors of
the Bank of England a course of proceeding suited to
such an emergency." Now, he should have thought
that the proper expression to have used was the common
one, that the advisers of the Queen had submitted to
her Majesty the propriety of departing in this
case from the Parliamentary enactment. Ile observed
by the papers that it was reported to have been stated in
another place that this course of violating the law had
been taken at the recommendation of two Ministers only,
and was not the act of all the Government. However
that might be, he believed the public would not quarrel
with the proceeding, except that part of it which recom-
reended that a high rate of interest should be charged.
Ile inconvenience arising from that recommendation had
been very extensively felt, and that was another reason
why the name of the Sovereign should not have been
used in this universal manner, coupled with a transaction
which, so far as the usurious rate of interest was con-
eerned, might be unpopular. With respect to the Bank
Charter Act, the ultimate determination of the Govern-
ment was not yet known, but the House had heard from
the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that
while Parliament was sitting things were to go on as
they now were, because if a difficulty arose the Legisla-
ture could interfere; but the Right Hon. Gentleman had
not declared whether towards the end of the session he
would require from Parliament a conditional permission
for the relaxation of the law. The Government could
hardly be entitled again to ask for such an indulgence if
they allowed the whole session to go on leaving the Act
in its present state. Whether an explanation of what
the Government intended to do with respect to the
Bank Charter Act was to form a part of the statement
of next Tuesday, the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer had not stated; but it was to be
hoped that the Government would at once answer at
least these questions:—What was the peculiar ground
which had induced them to relax this Act of Parliament?
and why they had not relaxed it sooner?—(llear, hear.)
Mr. LABOUCHERE—The Hon. Gentleman who
has just sat down reminded the Government that it had
gb eoev ne
rtnhme iern
tf,a
oe ,
bdeu
or ibnlgi g
et hde,
ot Inv ot
wyears
at
ae yt e hoaede a Isiieolnds theto
exceed the law. It would ill become me to speak
lightly of an infringement of the law of the land by the
Government; but, on the other hand, I am not prepared
to say, if it should be the fate of the Government to be
a third year in office, and if circumstances should again
arise which should, in their opinion, render it necessary
for them to take upon themselves the responsibility of
exceeding the law, that they would fear to do so—
(Cheers)—and then throw themselves upon the judg-
ment of the Parliament of England.—(Hear, hear.)
That is the only answer I shall make to the observation
of the Hon. Gentleman, which I apprehend was meant
for a taunt. The last two years were marked by extra-
ordinary circumstances. The first occasion to which the
Hon. Gentleman alluded, when I had the honour to hold
the office of Chief Secretary for Ireland, was marked
by peculiar calamity affecting that part of the empire.
—(Hear, hear.) The present occasion, which we have
met now to consider, has been marked by great and
widely spread misfortune, affecting the commercial
classes of this country; and I should be ashamed of the
Government if, upon either of those two occasions, they
had shrunk from taking upon themselves the duty and
the responsibility which are attached to the offices they
hold, which are necessary for the public service; or if
they had hesitated in putting in exercise any power
they might possess to stay the progress of the evil. I do
not conceive it is necessary for me to anticipate now
that discussion which will far more regularly and pro-
perly oome on when my Right Hon. Friend the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer will state to the House all the
circumstances and reasons which led to the course which
the Government adopted with regard to that communi-
cation with the Bank of England. But when the Hon.
Member for Dorchester says—" Answer me at least one
question; tell me why was this step by the Government
taken at this particular time; neither sooner nor later?"
—I think he must see,—the House at least, on a mo-
ment's reflection, will see, that it would be utterly im-
possible for my Right Hon. Friend, or any member of
the Government to answer that question without going
into the whole circumstances of tne case.—(Hear, hear.)
And, as my Right Hon. Friend has promised the House
to make his statement on a day no more distant than
Tuesday, I hope the Hon. Member for Dorchester will
restrain his impatience, and not ask the Government to
do that which they cannot possibly do without at once
opening a wide field of discussion. I should not have
trespassed upon the House had it not been for some of
tho observations of the Hon. Member who has just sat
down, and other remarks of a similar charac-
ter. I had hoped that the speech of my Noble
Friend at the head of the Government had disposed of
all that part of the discussion which attempted
to connect the recent commercial distress with
what some Hon. Gentlemen are pleased to term
the utter failure of free-trade policy.—(Cheers.) But
all that the Hon. Gentleman opposite has advanced under
that head amounts only to this—that you have recently
adopted free-trade principles, and it does so happen that
in the course of the present year there has been a time
of great commercial embarrassment and distress. But

II must say that some of the observations made by the
lion. Gentleman regarding the supposed failure of free-
trade policy did appear to me to bo very strongly in
favour of that policy. Think of the effect of introducing
such a large quantity of grain! 10,000,000 quarters!
Why, the answer to that is, we very much wanted all
this grain.—(Cheers.) One would think that the most
scandalous and wasteful expenditure of our money had
taken place in the purchase of this grain; but tho lion.
Gentleman might as well argue that a man had brought
himself to ruin who had spent his money in the baker's
shop to purchase bread for his children.—(lioar, hear.)
It is a remarkable circumstance, and ono which I view
in a very different light to the Hon. Gentleman, that in
a time of most appalling calamity in Ireland, when, by
a visitation of Providence, the supply of the usual food
was cut off, the riches, the energy, the credit of this
country should have attracted towards its shores
this unusual import of food. In the whole com-
mercial history of this country, I say, I know of
nothing which strikes me more forcibly with an
impression of the power of uncontrolled trade than
this enormous supply of human food.—(Dear.) The
lion. Gentleman has challenged us to show an instance
in which foreign nations have followed our example in
free trade; but he has not, I think, observed the conduct
~f foreign nations with care and accuracy, or he would
not have so spoken. My own conviction is that the
example of this country has produced most remarkable
remits upon the conduct of foreign nations.—(Cheers.)
If I were now entering fully into the subject I could

show that many countries have made the most important
modifications in their tariffs to the advantage of this
country by the reduction of duties; but I will not now
go into any.memoirs upt n that point further than to
mention one instance—:hat of the United States of
America.—( Hear, hear.) It was only in December last
that the Legislature of the United States revised their
whole tariff, and made the most important reductions in
it; and everybody acquainted with the circumstances of
that country knows that the party which pressed for
these reductions, and carried them, were mainly assisted
by being able to say, " England has altered her corn-
laws, and has shown a disposition to favour the com-
merce of the United States."—(Hear, hear.) I really
feel that I ought not to allow myself to be
dragged into a wide field of discussion on
the present occasion. At the same time, having
heard such confident assertions made by the lion.
Gentleman and others, on the opposite side of, the
House, with respect to the utter failure of the measures
~f free trade, as exemplified in the history of the last
three or four years—believing as I do that there is no
'oundation in fact for making such assertions, and feeling
certain that whenever those Hon. Gentlemen shall,
Instead of vague assertions, venture to place their propo-
sitions in a tangible shape before the House, and bring
forward something like proofs in their support, they will
altogether fail in so doing, I felt it my duty to enter my
protest against the assertions which have been brought
torward in this discussion, and having done so I hope
the House will now proceed to receive the report on the
Address.—(hear, hear.)
Mr. NEWDEGATE had been led to hope by the
speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman, the President of
the Board of Trade, that he would take pity on the
ignorance of the House, and help to enlighten them on
the subject of free trade. A few months ago he (Mr.
Newdegate) moved an Address to the Crown for returns
showing the changes which had occurred in the tariffs of
foreign countries since the recent change in our customs'
duties, but to this moment those returns had never been
produced, and he had consequently been driven to this
conclusion—either that her Majesty's Ministers intended
to refuse to grant those returns, or that they were not
aware what changes had taken place in the tariffs of
foreign countries. As he had been informed, how-
ever, that an Address to the Crown did not ter-
minate with a bygone Parliament, he was still in-
inclined to hope, especially after the speech of the Right
Hon Gentleman (Mr. Labouchere), that ere long Par-
liament would be informed what changes had occurred
in foreign tariffs in consequence of the relaxation in
ours. The Right Hon. Gentleman had also announced,
that although Government had twice violated the law
within two years, they were prepared to violate it again
if necessary. He thought it most unfortunate that Go-
vernment should have allowed so many large and im-
portant firms to fail before they suspended the Bank
Charter Act. He had seen a list of no fewer than 117
large and important houses which had stopped payment,
and that list was not complete. The names of some of
these firms were Alexander, Lesley, and Co.; Douglas and
Co.; Sanderson and Co.; Reid, Irving, and Co.; Nephews
Gower and Co. ; Perkins, Mullens, and Co ; Barclay
Brothers and Co. ; Trueman, Cook, and Co. ; Robinson
and Co. ; the Abingdon Bank, the Liverpool Banking
Company, the Newcastle Bank, and the Royal Bank of
Liverpool. He hoped the House would not be led away
from the consideration of the grave circumstances
of the country by the loose assertions which were
made respecting the insolvency of many of these
houses. Had not certain changes taken place in the
legislation of the country ? Would it be asserted
that the West Indian houses would have failed
had not their property been undermined by the changes
which had been made in the customs' duties of our
country ? (Hear, hear.) Or would it be boldly
asserted that these houses had experience previous to
the present time of the pressure which had occurred
under the restrictions of the Bank Charter Act ? He
was surprised that the tone of the Right Hon. Gentle-
man, the President of the Board of Trade, was so
cheerful ; for if there was any department of the
Government the representative of which ought to be in
mourning it was that Right Hon. Gentleman. What
were the accounts from Manchester ? By the last
accounts it appeared that there were 20,000 men out of
employment.—(Hear.) And every day brought accounts
of more distrust, more mills closed, more operatives
being thrown out of employment in other districts.—
(Hear.) For the Government to deny the connexion
between this state of things and free trade, was, he
thought, to attribute inefficacy to their own measure.
He remembered last May hearing the Hon. Member for
the Tower Hamlets say, that it was an odd and alarm-
ing circumstance that during the period when the im-
ports of corn were enormous, there was at the same
time a large increase in the import of articles of inferior
necessity ; and he feared it would have a serious effect
on the balance of trade. It had a serious effect.—(Hear.)
The Noble Lord the Member for Lynn did not for a mo-
ment attribute the whole pressure to the mere action of
free trade upon ordinary circumstances ; but when they
had it shown by documents before the House that there
was increased importation in other articles besides corn,
how the Right lion. Gentleman, the President of the
Board of Trade, could say that the free-trade measures
had nothing to do with the present difficulties, surpassed
his poor understanding. He must say, too, that She
Noble Lord at the head of the Government, in his poor
understanding, had rather evaded answering the power-
ful address of the Noble Lord the Member for Lynn,
who opened the debate. He (Mr. Newdegate) recollected
an expression which the Noble Lord had used towards
him last session, when he had counted out the House
upon the debate on the affairs of Portugal, that his
rescue of the Hon. Member for Montrose from the re-
sult of a division on that occasion was something like
the proceedings of a goddess of ancient days, who in-
volved her hero in a cloud and carried him off into ob-
scurity.—(Laughter.) lie (Mr. Newdegate) thought
that the Noble Lord had on the present occasion involved
himself in obscurity. He would have them believe that
it had reached even his understanding. The Noble
Lord had professed himself unable to understand
the proposition of the Noble Lord the Member for
Lynn, who attributed the export of bullion to
the necessary importation of corn, aggravated by the
increased importation of other articles; he said he was
surprised that the Noble Lord should complain of the low
price of cotton at Liverpool, which had been produced
by free importation. Really this was asking the House
to believe that the Noble Lord was less able than they
all knew him to be. The proposition of the Noble Lord
(Lord G. Bentinck) was this ; the exportation of gold
destroyed credit by the restriction which was placed on
it by the Bank Charter Act. This destruction of credit
artificially reduced the price of cotton, which was pur-
chased by those states whose credit was unimpaired,
while it was useless to our own manufacturers, who were
unable to buy it.—(hear.) The Honourable Member
for Montrose had said that many of the houses who
had recently failed were houses which ought to
have fallen, and he was sorry that more of them bad
not come down. Was that the way they were to deal
with those upon whose speculations the whole free-trade
measures were founded? Was that the way they were
to deal with that credit which alone could bring those
exports which produced the balance of trade, and save
us from continual exports of bullion ? He had seen in
the public papers expressions about " sweeping away
false credit, and destroying houses which ought not to
stand," and about " bringing credit as frequently as pos-
sible to the test of capital." What must be the end of
such a system ? What but the reduction of the means
to meet the effects of the free-trade legislation which
had been adopted by the House ? He not only regretted
to have heard such expressions as those he had referred
to applied by some public journals to the commercial
men who were pressed upon by the exigencies of the
times, but he had seen language used tending to harden
the hearts of our fellow countrymen against the pro-
gressive distress of the working classes. He found the
following remarks in the Spectator of last week :
" The worst dark spot in the prospect for the winter
lies in the discharge of railway labourers. These men
are not numerous enough, perhaps, to impart anything
of as insurrectionary character to the disturbances
which they are sure to create in want and idleness ;
but they are strong, brutal men—they have been pam-
pered, they will feel the pinch of destitution, and will
be doubly exasperated by the appetite for enjoyment,
and the gnawing of hunger in their robust and angry
stomachs. Crime will abound this winter—crimes of
violence and hateful excesses; and extraordinary pre-
cautions must be taken to check the lawless, if we would
not have the horrors of stormed cities in our towns and
rural districts."

Was this the doctrine of those who professed political
economy? If it was at the suggestion of the Home Se-
cretary that Government had agreed to relax the pro-
visions of the Bank Charter Act, the Right Hon. Baronet
had added another to the many services for which the
country was indebted to him.—(Hear, hear.)
After a few words from

Mr. SCOTT, who said that every subject which had
been brought forward was a verdict against the Go-
vernment, and that the distress during the winter
would increase instead of diminish, owing to the want
of employment,

The report upon the address was then brought up,
read, and agreed to, and ordered to be presented to her
Majesty by the mover and seconder, and such Members
of the House as were of her Majesty's Privy Council.
The House then adjourned at a quarter to Ten
o'clock.

The Earl of Bessborough did not second the
Address in the House of Lords on Tuesday night. It
was Lord Elphinstone who did so. The Earl of Bess-
borough is at present in Ireland.
Count Kielmansegge, the Hanoverian Minister, has
arrived in town from the continent.
__

THE HEBREW CHAIR OF EDINBURGH UNIVERSITY.
—We learn that in consequence of the interlocutor which
has been pronounced by Lord Robertson, interdicting
Professor Macdouall from exercising the functions of Pro-
fessor of Hebrew in the University, notes have been pre-
' rented to the Lord Ordinary by the agents for the magis-
trate and the professor, to prohibit the clerk of the bills
from issuing the certificate of the interdict and the passing of
the note; so that the case will in this way come immediately
before the inner House, where Lord Robertson's judgment
will be reviewed. We also understand that the reclaiming
note for the Presbytery will not be taken up till after these
notes are boxed, which in all likelihood will be the case in a
few days.—Caledonion Mereurv.
[ADVERTISEMENT.] —ANO THFR , EXTRAORDINARY
CURE OF ASTII3I4. BY HOLLOWAY'S Plus.—Patrick
umon-place,
Casey, residing at No. 1,
Brunswick-
square, had suffered from a chronic asthma for more
than three years. This poor man was so great a sufferer
that he did not dar h
etog-o to bed for fear of the phlegm
choking him ;
indeedupon a table fur half
an
could not even lay his head
an hour lest he should be suffocated.
Nevertheless, this person is now labouring from
morning to night, sleeps as well as ever he did in
of Hollo Is'-aY 's Pi . fact is completely cured by the use
lls. Sold by all Druggists, and at
Professor Holloway's Establishment, 244, Strand,
Lndoz,

FROM THE LONDON GAZETTE Or'
TUESDAY.
DIVIDENDS.
At the Court, Basinghall-street.
J. T. Hazard, College-hill, paper agent, Dee. 14, at
eleven —J. Reay and J, R. Reay, Mark-lane, wine
merchants, Dec. 18, at eleven—J. Elliott, Dab entry,
Northamptonshire, victualler, Dec. 16, at half-past o.ne—
T. Marriott, Moor-street, Seven dials, licensed victualler,
Dec. 16, at twelve.

hi the
Manchester,Country.
Rosetta Edersheim, draper, Dec. 14, at
eleven, at the Court, Manche t T oafl ld Manchester-T. er- .C r e , sen.,
Kirkham, Lancets!'"
ire,linen draper, Dec. 15, at twelve,
at the Court, Manchester-G. BartonandJ.
rton Barton,
Manchester, copper roller manufacturers, Dec 15 at
eleven, at the Court, Manchester-J. and S. Knight,.
Mold, Flintshire, bankers, Dec. 15, at n, at tele h
eleven,
Court., Liverpool-A. Smith, Liverpool, merchant,
15, at eleven, at the Court, Liverpool-
p Heap, ed.
Roberts, and W. Roberts, Padiham, Lancashire, I.
spinners, Dec. 17, at eleven, at the Court, o
mancheostetrtots
W. Townley, Blackburn, cotton spinner, Dee. 17, at
eleven, at the Court, Manchester-J. Collins and J. Col-
lins, Bath, jewellers, Dec. 17, at twelve, at the Court,
Bristol-C. Taylor and T. Hawkey, Monkwearmonth-
shore, Durham Dec. 14, at one, at the Court, Newcastle-
upon-Tyne-i. Sword, Newcastle-upon Tyne, dreper,
Dec. 16. at twelve, at the Court, Newcastle-upon-Tyea
-J. Burnett, Sunderland, hosier, Dec. 16, at one, at *la
Court, Newcastle-upon-Tyne-W.. Oliver, Darlington,
printer, Dec. 16, at eleven, at the Court, Newcastle-
apon-Tyne-E. D. Hall, Walsall, currier, Doc. 18, at
twelve, at the Court, Birmingham-W. Hardwick, Leeds,
auctioneer, Dec. 14, at eleven, at the Court, Leeds.
PAYMENT OF DIVIDENDS.
J. Thuell and W. Jeffery, Buckfastleigh, Devonshire,
woollen manufacturers, hs., any Tuesday after Nov, 23,
between the hours of eleven and three, at the office of
Mr. Hirtzel, Exeter.
J. Thuell, Broadhempstone, Devonshire, !Amer,
4s. 3d., any Tuesday after Nov. 23, between the .hours
of eleven and two, at'the office of Mr. Hirtzel, Exeter:
T. Hill, Liverpool, ironmonger, 6d., on Thursday;
Nov. 25, or any subsequent Thursday, between the
hours of eleven and two, at the office of Mr. Cazenove,
Liverpool.
T. Davies, Liverpool, merchant, 45., on Thursday,
Nov. 25, or any subsequent Thursday, between the
hours of eleven And two, At the office of Mr. Cazenove,
Liverpool.
J. R. Henderson, Leicester, wine merchant, 9d., on
Saturday, Nov. 27, and Saturday, Dec. 4, and subse-
quently on every alternate Saturday, between the hours
of eleven and three, at the office of Mr. Bittleston, Not-
tingham.
W. F. Westall, Manchester, hotel keeper, ss. on
Tuesday, Nov. 23, and every following Tuesday, between
the hours of ten and one, at the office of Mr. Hobson,
Manchester.
W. Wain, Manchester, pocket-book maker and ate.
Honer, 4s. 5d., on Tuesday, Nov. 23, and every following
Tuesday, between the hours of ten and two, at the office
of Mr. Hobson, Manchester.
Wallis, Oxford- street, woollen-draper, 35., any
Wednesday, between the hours of eleven and three, at
the office of Mr. Whitmore, Basingball-street.
L. Logsdon, Barnet, Hertfordsl2ire, coach builder,
is. 4id., any Wednesday, between the hours of eleven
and three, at the office of Mr. Whitmore, Basin/hall-
street.
NOTICES OF CERTIFICATES.
At the Court, Basinghall-street.
G. Frost, Leadenhall-street, City, cutler, Dec. 14, at
twelve-F. Cornell, Halstead, Essex, ironmonger, Dec.
14, at eleven-W. Norris, .Cambridge Villas, Great
College-street, Camden New Town, builder, Dec. 16, at
eleven-T. Byers, Upper Lisson-street, Lissom-grove, St.
Marylebone, licensed victualler, Dec. 14, at one-C.
Houghton, Dudley-grove, Paddington, ironmong.er, Dec.
14, at one-T. H. Pindar, Southampton, Chelten:-
and Gloucester, tailor and draper, Dec. 14, at two-a.-
Harmer, Spital-square, silk manufacturer, Dec. 14,
at one-B. Stock, Margate, innkeeper, December 15,
at two-R. Law, Portland-row, Camberwell, pawn--
broker, Dec. 14, at half-past twelve-J. Dunlop, Dover-
road, and Trindon, Durham, coal merchant, Dec. 14, at
twelve-J. Ross, Great Tower-street, City, grocer, Dec.
16, at half-past twelve -J. Richardson, Union-street,
Spitalfields, glass, china, and earthenware dealer, Dec.
16, at twelve-S. Hocken, Cornwall Villas, Alb:nn-road,
Queen's-road, Dalston, builder, Dec. 16, at twelve.
In the Country.
W. Jerrens, jun., Gainsborough, Lincolnshite, grocer',
Dec. 15, at eleven, at the Town-hall, Kingston-upon--
Hull-J. Rippon, Bristol, baker, Dec. 20, at eleven, at'
the Court, Bristol-J. Sharples, jun., Daisy-field, Lan-
cashire, cotton-spinner, Dec. 16, at twelve, at the Court,
Manchester-S. Owen, Liverpool, flour-dealer, Dec. 15,
at eleven, at the Court, Liverpool-J. Shakeihaft,
mere, Cheshire, licensed victualler and builder', Dec. 15,
at eleven, at the Court, Liverpool-C. W. Mayne, Leeds,
tobacco-manufacturer, Dec. 16, at eleven, at the Court,
Leeds-W. Sampson, Sheffield, wholesale spirit- mer-
chant, Dec. 17, at ten, at the Council-hall, Sheffief4-
B. Organ, Westbromwich, Staffordshire, soda- water-
manufacturer, Dec. 18, at twelve, at the Court, Birming.'
ham-R. Linell, Shrewsbury, grocer, Dec. 15, at twelve,
at the Court, Birmingham.
At the Court of Review, Dec. 14.
I Ilagg; Colchester, tailor-J. Jones Birkenhead.
Cheshire, chynist and druggist-J. T. Hobson, Lieke-
pool, drysalter-T. H. Pullen, Sheffield, hosier-J..
Ward, Birmingham, dealer in glass-E. Cook, Little
Newport-street, Soho, grocer-T. Kemp, Tranmere,
Cheshire, joiner and builder-C. Jones, Birkenhead,
Cheshire, printer-H. Woodhouse, Aldermanbury, City,
warehouseman-A. Denholm, Queen-street, Stepney,
linendraper.
PARTNERSHIPS DISSOLVED.
11. R. Cottam :and J. Aspinall, Birkenhead, iron-
founders-G. Wyatt and B. Powl, Bloomfield-street,
wholesale tea and coffee dealers-G. Nutting, G. C.
Lawson, and W. L. Wood, Great Tichfield-street,
pianoforte manufacturers (as far as regards W. L. Wood)
-J. Eaves and R. Eaves, Liverpool, ship bread bakers
-J. Foster and W. Beal, Plymouth, timber merchants
and cabinetmakers-W. Eades, sen., and W. Eades, jun.,
Birmingham, machinists and lathe tool manufacturers-
R. J. Wallis and T. Cook, Loughborough, wine and
spirit merchants-J. D. Howard and W. Wadham, cop-
persmiths and brassfounders-P. Foueard and W. Tuck-
well, Greenwich, stone merchants-T. James and it
Bullock, Uxbridge, surgeons, apothecaries, and ac-
coucheurs-H. Pritchard and J. Parry, Bangor, drapers
and mercers-C. Millar and A. Eccles, Northwich,
Cheshire, surgeons, apothecaries, and aceoucheurs-F.
Sard and J. Blunn, Leamington Priors, Warwickshire,
hatters, hosiers, and outfitters-J. HoLlingsworth and
AL Jones, Birmingham, woollen warehousemen-IL
Badcock, R. Badcock, and J. Badcock, jell., Tunton,
bankers (as far as regards J. Badcock, jun.).-D. aDodg-
son and T. Mann, Leeds, flax and hemp drOssers-D.
Coke. E. T. Coke, and J. Salmond, Derbyshire .and Not-
tinghamshire, coal masters and coal vendors (a. -far as
regards D'Ewes Coke-J. A. Coleman and IL Wee ton,
Maidstone, chemists and druggists-E. Greaves and D.
Una, Manchester, merchants and commission agent----
M. J. M. Fawcett and W. Hadfield, Sheffield, anvil
makers-B. Falciola and A. Casartelli, Birmingham,
carvers and gilders-J. C. Cockerel' and W. H. Hoard,
Conduit-street, Bond-street, auctioneers, surveyors, and
land agents-W. B. Bairstow and B. Bairstow, Wake.
field, coal merchants-J. Naters and H. T. Naters,
Newcastle-upon-Tyne, G. A. Walker and J. H. Charnock,
Wakefield, and J. B. Denton, Gray's Inn-square, drain-
ing tile and brick company-T. Harris and S. Yardley,
Wood-street, Clerkenwell-J. Fox and D. O'Connell,
Chamber-street, Goodman's-fields, oil and Italian ware-
housemen.
INSOLVENT PETITIONERS.
Richard Veevers, Manchester, superintendent of work-
house.
William Barker, Bramhope, Yorkshire, journeyman stone

mason. •
Richard Nuttall, Little Leyer, Lancashire, provision
dealer and shoemaker.
Samuel Williams, Donhead St. Mary, Wiltshire, clerk.
James Bayly Smith, Everton, Lancashire, excise officer
Thomas Morris, Liverpool.
Edward Hulbert, Bootle, near Liverpool, clerk.

John Lockwood, Liverpool, tailor and draper.
William Henry Connery, Liverpool.
Edmund Ils,nxwell, Manchester, joiner.
William Morris, Bridgwater, saddler.
Jacob Stevens, Bridgwater, tailor and beer-housekeeper.
Henry Hicks, Tiverton, tinman.
William Haythorn White, Sheerness, surgeon.
Ann Smith, Milton, Kent, boot And shoemaker.
Hanson Irving, Bradford, Yorkshire, paL,;lior•
Samuel Nettleton, Leeds.
-

Thomas Sheppard, Northampton, engineez:
James Willyams Grylls, Redruth, Cornwall,
SCOTCH SEQUESTRATIONS.
eLleSodueathlerManedanfaecrinhte,
Aberdeen,M93
J. and J. Gibb, Hamilton, builders,. to Meet, Nov. ..5
Dec. 23, at one, within the Royal Hotel, Aberdeet_t_.
AtobnieredeetenLhvi.7, 5 awl
and Dec. 16, at twelve, within the writing chAmbers of
A. Currie, Hamilton.
D. Ross and G. Matthews, Glasgow, merchants, to
meet, Nov. 27 and Dec. 20, at twelve, within the writing
chambers of R. Walker, Glasgow.
R. Gilmour and T. Waters, Glasgow, timber mer
chants, to meet, Nov. 30 and Dec. 21, at twelve, within
the writing chambers of Messrs. G. and A. Young,
Glasgow.W. Crawford, Glasgow, wrights and builders,
to m
Nov. 29 and Dec. 20, at twelve, within the
nt,
J.
eend
writing chambers of Messrs. G. and A. Young, Glasgow.
W. Newlands and
Nov.. M'Nab, Glasgow, provision
merchants, to meet, N 30 and Dec. 21, at twelve,
within the writing chambers of H. Walker, Glasgow.
W. Mitchison, Glasgow, pianoforte merchant and
mw
iut shi
icn s
tehl lee rs, toar meet, Nov. 25
swand Dec. 16, at twelve,
R. Williamson, Stromness, innkeeper, to meet, Dec. 1 and
27, at twelve, within the office of
Stromness.A. I. Wylie, writer,
Nov.l V. 29 and litehell, Montrose, grain merchant, to meet
Dec. 20, at eleven, within the Star Hotel
Montrose.

M. Skeoch, Sighthill, near Glasgow, rope and sail
manufacturer, to meet Nov. 30 and Dec. 21, at twelve,
within the office of W. Mathison, writer, Glasgow.
W. and T. Baird, Leith, wool merchants, to meet,
Nov. 26 and Dec. 21, at two, within the Royal Exchange
Coffeehouse, Edinburgh.
Rainey, Jarvie, and Co., Glasgow, agents and mane.
facturers, to meet, Nov. 27 and Dec. Is, at twelve, within
the writing chambers of Messrs. Mein and Cunningham,
Glasgow.
R. Stewart, Kirkaldy, manufacturer, to meet, Nov,
27 and Dec. 18, at twelve, within the writing chambers
of Messrs. Tosh and Gibson, Kirkaldy.
W. Bain, Helensburgh, wright, to meet, Nov, 29 and
Dec. 20, at twelve, within the Tontine Hotel, Helens,.
burgh.

Mr. Grenfell, M.P., had an interview nith Sir
George Grey yesterday at the Home-office,