The Sun.
London, England, 1847-04-30 00:00:00

The Gallant Member then read letters from several
commanders who had tested the sailing qualities of the
Vanguard and other vesselsbnuainliinthoyusSiorp\Sin-i.oSnyimnotnhdeisr,
in which they expressed an u
favour. A similar letter was also read with respect to
the Gorgon, and with respect to the Cyclops, from
. whenT h e
noneV an Vanguard a
thed hadoth
ebre est i
pa
sb lee
ut ol d s
da sail
oCua tp ot af
nharbour
so. Sir W. Symonds might have gone too far, but he had
done much for the improvement of the navy, and he
hoped the present Admiralty would follow out the ex•
ample set by their predecessors, and improve the navy
to the utmost in their power. Sir W. Symonds' ships
were unquestionably the cheapest.
Sir CHARLES NAPIER said the time of the
House had been wasted in hearing a defence of
Sir W. Symonds, and had therefore lost sight of the
motion of the Hon. Gentleman, the Member for Mon-
trose—the wasteful expenditure. He could not, how-
ever, agree in all that the Hon. Gentleman had stated
with respect to that gentleman; and he had advised him
to confine his motion to one specific object, instead of
dealing in general charges. The great fault of the Ad-
miralty consisted in allowing Sir W. Symonds to build
large ships. When Sir George Cockburn went to the
West Indies in the Vernon, he complained of the inade-
quacy of the ship, and another was substituted; but in
the Mediterranean the officer who had the command of
the Vernon had his ship beaten in a trial; but as he
was more used to yachting than severe service, if the
captain of the other ship had been in command of the
Vernon, it would probably have beaten its opponent.
He (Sir C. Napier) had been intrusted with a squad-
ron, of which the Vanguard was one, and at Alexan-
dria, in a severe gale, he found the Vanguard was the
most leewardly ship of the squadron. The gale, he
admitted, was one of the most severe he could recollect.
Whilst she formed one of the experimental squadron in
the Mediterranean, her ports were seven feet one inch
out of the water. The great fault of Sir W. Symonds's
ships was stated to be, that they pitched, and could not
fight their guns in bad weather ; that was the great
fault of his ships. Admiral Parker had told him that,
when he signalled the Albion to head the squadron,
which he commanded, that she rolled so much, she
could not do so ; but he was told that he had not made
a report to the Admiralty ; but if he had not, why had
he not been required to do so ; but as Sir W. Parker
was one of the culprits in the matter, his opinion
was not worth much.—(Hear, hear.) He now came
to the waste of public money. The waste
of money and mismanagement had continued as long
as ho had been in the navy, and be had repeatedly
urged reforms upon that House.. Sir W. Symonds was
not to blame for this, but the different Boards of the
Admiralty were, and as he had repeatedly called atten-
tion to the great waste of public money, they could not
plead ignorance. They had been told that many ships
in the course of construction had been stopped ; but he
had been told that the construction had been renewed,
but he understood that this had been done by the Secre-
tary of the Admiralty, and not by the Board. He
hoped, however, to hear some explanation from the Hon.
Gentleman (Mr. Ward) with resp, ct to steam-boats.
Sir W. Symonds had ordered engines of a certain kind,
but the Admiralty had ordered others of a heavier
kind ; and the same thing had been done with respect to
the Cyclops, the Gazer, the Avenger, the Retribution,
and others. From this, and other causes, they had been
rendered unfit for service. Then with respect
to the Surveyor : matters in dispute were to
be referred by the Committee of Construction to the
surveyor, and by the surveyor to the Committee of
Construction. So that they might easily anticipate the
result, and as long as they had a surveyor, and in-
trusted the construction of ships to him they would,
as during the last forty years, have ships of bad con-
struction. They had six or seven dockyards, and what
they should do was to offer a premium for the best
plans. His Hon. Friend said that the plans were
executed by the Admiralty, who consisted of six persons,
but he questioned much whether they examined them
like practical men. Then there was a private and a
public Board of Admiralty; and, after the rising of the
public Board, the First and Second Lords held a private
Board, at which proceedings were taken, of which the
junior Lords were entirely ignorant, and yet his Hon.
Friend praised such a system as the proper way to con-
duct so important a task as the management of
the navy ; but the Lords of the Admiralty
were always changing, and those who had
held office no longer than six months imagined
themselves competent and experienced seamen. This
was the way the Admiralty was conducted, and unless
the whole system was altered, the wasteful system of
expenditure to which he had referred would continue.
A proof of bad management was to be found in the
fact that the late Admiralty caused thirty iron ships to
be constructed without having ever tried one, or having
fired a shot at the iron ofevhich they were made, to find
how they would answer. But what a contrast America
presented. That department of the public service tried
several sheets of iron of the same kind, to
ascertain its capability for the purpose to which
they designed to use it ; after making the
experiments they decided that iron was the best mate-
rial of which they could build a man-of war.—(Hear,
hear.) The Hon. Gentleman the Secretary to the Ad-
miralty read a number of private letters which had
been received with respect to several ships ; but would
the Lords of the Admiralty consent to lay every private
letter which they received from the commanders of ships
before the House ? He feared they would not, because
they would divulge information which they had no
wish to make public.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.)
There was an iron vessel lost the other day, and there
had been a letter received about the Cleopatra, showing
that her employment had been most ineffective. The
same applied to many other vessels. It was therefore
high time that a stop was put to this waste and extra-
vagance. After the great sums which had been expended
by the various Admiralties of the country, he thought it
was high time that a full inquiry should take place into
the whole affairs of the navy. He would sit down
by declaring his intention of supportirg the motion of
his Hon. Friend the Member for Montrose.
Mr. CORRY did not intend to take up much of their
time at that late hour, and he only rose to make an ex-
planation respecting those proceedings of the Ad-
miralty with which he; had been connected. He
maintained that the late board had done a
great deal towards effecting an improvement in the
construction of ships. As soon as Sir William Sy-
monds's building was called into question, a committee
was appointed to inquire into the matter, and it was
also decided to assemble an experimental squadron. The
war with China, however, prevented them carrying that
into operation ; they still did all they could, under the
circumstances, and a number of most eminent gentle.
men were called in, in order to try some experiments,
for the purpose of constructing better ships. Many
plans were submitted, and some most excellent ships
were in consequence constructed. The Thetis, the
Terrible, and the Flying Fish might be cited
as cases in instance of what had been done.
The same course was taken with steam-boats.
His Gallant Friend the Member for Ripon, proposed to
the Admiralty to constitute a hoard of reference for the
purpose of ship-building, and that Committee was com-
posed of many eminent and scientific men. He was at a
loss to understand in what other manner the Admiralty
could have attained the object sought by the Hon. Mein.
her for Montrose, than by the constitution of the Com-
mittee of Reference. There were complaints made at
the expense which had been gone to, in repairing and
altering vessels, but, he asked, would not the public have
reason to complain if they pulled these ships to pieces
without giving them a fair trial.—(Hear, hear.) No
other course was open to the Admiralty than that which
had been pursued. It had been the fashion of Hon. Gen-
tlemen, during the experiments which had been made, to
cry down the ship built by the surveyor; but he would
just read a few of the official reports which would
prove how much justice there was in these public ru-
mours. The Hon. Member then read several extracts
from reports to show, that the Queen, the Vanguard,
and the Albion were amongst the best ships in the navy.
It was said that the Canopus, which was built on the old
principle, was a favourable instance of ships built on the
old system; but this vessel could not for a moment be
compared with the vessels of the Albion class ; and
reports of officers showed that this vessel in particular
was very cranky. He denied the statement that six
vessels were built on the lines of the Albion on the au-
thority of the Secretary alone. It was also said that
four steam guard ships were constructed by the Admi-
ralty, but this was not the case, for they were built at
the instance of a sub-commission.
Mr. HUME said the Hon. Member had admitted
facts which proved the - necessity for • this in-
quiry. It appeared that when he came into
office, he found things in a bad state, and the Mi-
nistry with which he was connected called a committee
of the master shipwrights to advise them, and afterwards
finding that this was insufficient, they called another
meeting of more highly educated and skilful men. Not
an Hon. Member had disproved his assertion that
ships had been built and then taken to pieces
apparently for the pleasure of building them again,
until the expenses thus incurred reached an amount that
was frightful to contemplate. He felt under the neces-
sity of dividing the House.
Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and the House
divided. When there appeared,

For tho motion - l3
Against it 66
Majority against the motion 53
Captain PECHELL postponed his motion relative to
the Admiralty Court at the Cape and St. Helena.
Mr. HUME postponed his motions relative to Jamaica
and the papers of the Secret Committee of the East
India House.
CEMETERIES CLAUSES BILL.

This Bill was read a second time.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and
he House adjourned at a Quarter-past One.

Marlborough-sot
relief,_ in orderu'et
of her being Mornington came before
LIE CASE
fOl, Tug COUNTESS OF MO/tNINGTON.—
The Countess
in :eet: to make the usual declaration on oath,
Mr. Bingham, at
ticomoregeit, Hanover. a state of destitution as to require pari-h
,ov.zaeble the parish authorities of St.
7,lrtirorlcie
bed,:
aiw,n
ihttohmaep
puleisaeurra,
all' Ladyship
neglecting and refusing y l
fe chargeable,.
Ipiearu,,artd:".
e parish, and hamming y'
appliedsi ip
foagainstr hadr e l
thebi
ee
relief,
,r of Atornington f
ahiisa‘'c'iasual
her deposition was taken to maintain
The deposition Was to ;heaceef7ding to the egaataeemn relieved,
of Mornington, had been lawLcltl that " she, Elena,aa form.
fordshire, to William Pole Tylner married in 1828, in Titeeri.s
sent Earl of Mornington; that she hao(114 Wellesley,DE d the prte:
to her husband; that she had been r e fua:end ae - for assistance
port ; and that she was at present entirely
deal
yvkind of sup-
means of ordinary subsistence." Mr. Thomas,attute of any
of Hatchett's Hotel, deposed that it was his opinion proprietortha
that
th
statement of complete destitution put forth by her Ladyship
was true. Her Ladyship, Rho appeared to feel acutely her
peculiar situation, was then sworn to the truth of her state-
ment. The warrant, which ordered that the" body of the
Earl of Mornington be forthwith taken, and brought before
the signing magistrate," was then signed by Mr. Bingham,
and the parties left the Court.