The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-27 00:00:00

They objected to the practice of warehousing spirits. That
was to say, that they would not bond themselves, nor allow
others to do so ; and yet they came to that House and com-
plained that they were not allowed to bond their spirits, unless
after the payment of duty, which involved a loss of 3d. per
gallon. If the allegation of the Scotch distillers were true,
they had for some years been suffering—and in silence, too—a
great drawback. In 1821 a drawback was placed upon malt,
in order to encourage legal distillation ; and in 1831 the Irish
distillers complained that the drawback, so placed, opened a
door for a system of fraud by distilling in Scotland from a
mixture of malted and unmalted graM, which had been sur-
reptitiously obtained. A Committee was appointed to inquire
into the subject, anti the result was the reduction of the draw-
back. Since that reduction the Scotch distilleries continued
to thrive, and they made considerable imports into this coun-
try. If they found that the burden placed upon their trade
was too heavy to allow them to compete with others, they
should bring the matter before the House by one of
their own members ; but in his (Mr. Barkly's) opinion
there was little or ne real cause of complaint. There was one
consideration which should weigh with the landed interest to
induce them to consent to this measure, namely, that the
home-growth of barley was quite independent of the foreign
supply, so that their interest could in no way be affected. Ile
thought that at the present late period of the session, and in an
-expiring Parliament, the reference of this subject to a Select
Committee, would be productive of much delay and inconveni-
ence, and th:refore he should oppose the motion.
Mr. SHAW said that he had listened with very great at-
tention to the difficult and complicated su ject then
under the the conside, ation of the House.—( Hear, hear.)
tie was perfectly satisfied that his Noble Friend should get
the Committee. The subject was a very difficult and compli-
cated one, and on that ace, unt it was a very fitting one fcr
investigation. He would not go into details, but he was bound
!o say that he understood' from an eminent distiller, that 5 per
cent. was the utmost profit that could lately be made in the
distilling trade, and that if this measure passed it would drive
those who were engaged in it to give it up altogether.
Mr. GOULBURN said, that if the Noble Lord's motion
were carried, the forms of the House would prevent him from
effl.cting the object he had in view. He did not think, how-
ever, that a Committee was necessary, as the subject had been
already sufficiently investigated. And if the Committee were
appointed, the consequence would be that the minds of all who
were engaged in the distilling business would be unsettled.
The Right Hon. Gentleman then went into some details to
show that the diminution on the differential duties on colonial
spirits that had been made since 1823, did not cause any de-
crease, but the reverse in the consumption of home spirits. In
1830, he introduced a measure for the reduction of the duty on
rum, Is. 6d. to Is., but owing to the change in the Ministry
which then occurred, that reduction had not been made. Even
apon the showing, however, of the distillers themselves, the
diffetential duty ought not to be more than BL.d. He would
not go into the able calculations of the Right lion. Gentleman,
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, but he quite agreed with him
that 6d. was the very utmost to which the distillers of this
wintry had any claim in consequence of their increased burden'.
But when he reflected on the peculiar circumstances of the
ease he thought the Right Hon. Gentleman was right in deal-
'ng tenderly with the home trade. Ile could not doubt but
Dy increasing the amount of protection they would benefit the
producer and the consumer. He might recall the attention of
the House to a memorial presented through Mr. Pierce
Mahon, in 1830, by the distillers of Ireland, when they said
they would compete with the producer of any country, clime,
or colour, provided they had the advantages of free trade, and
should not be subjected to a corn duty. That was a statement
which did them credit. If they spoke to facts in that day,
they could have no case at the present moment, and he asked
the Right Honourable Gentleman the Chancellor of the
Exchequer how he could say that ninepence was not
sufficient protection against foreign competition. But to
coma to the Scotch distiller. He doubted whether, if the
case were properly looked into, he had a claim for Is. 4d.
drawback on the malt. But if the Scotch distillers had a case
against the rum producers at the present duty, they had a case
s ill stronger against the admission of English cor❑ spirits into
that country at the present charge. In fact, however, they
had a monopoly as against rum in their own country, and they
sent in 2,000,000 gallons of their liquor into England besides.
He was amazed at the combination which had taken place that
night against the colonial trade with the West
Indies. The course which had been pursued would
injure not only the colonial producers but the colonial
importers who were obliged to make up their cargoes with
sugar or to charter the vessel to unload part at Dublin and the
rest at Liverpool. Let the House only look at the effect pro-
duced. In 1821 the home spirits brought to charge amounted
to 9,820,000 gallons, and the rum to 2,321,060 gallons ; but
in 1845, when home spirits brought to charge amounted to
23,600,000 gallons, rum only amounted to 2,400,000 gallon:•.
He felt he mu3t oppose the motion of the Noble Lord.
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL said he must support the motion
of the Noble Lord for inquiry, and the more that the
Honourable Gentleman had made such a speech as
perhaps could not be answered on the instant. That
showed the necessity of some tribunal of appeal.
But he must say that the figures quoted by that Hon. Gentle-
man to show the quantity of spirits brought to charge only
showed that a large quantity had been smuggled But the
distillers had been the subject of Parliamentary interference
and enactment, which made them more deserving of the con.

aideration of the House.
Mr. DISRAELI said that the Right Hon. Baronet, the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, after avowing himself the
champion of free-trade, after preparing them for the adoption
of a moderate differential duty, terminated his exordium by
informing the House that the Government intended to increase
the duty against their colonies. He then entered into items
which furnished the duties from which his Noble Friend's re-
sults had been drawn. They were not aware of the doubts
which had prompted the Right Hon. Baronet in his walk from
Downing-street to that House, to alter the predetermined duty
of 6d. into 9d., but he (Mr. Disraeli) thought the Right Hon.
Baronet should not have stopped there. He took it for
granted that protection to the British distiller, entered into
the arrangement which was come to at the end of
the session of 1845, and was also to be an essential in the
Right Hon. Baronet's measure, and he would ask if free com-
petition could exist in this country under the operation of the
excise laws? He thought it was agreed upon by all who had
taken part in the debate. He thought, in fact, it was agreed
upon by all who had considered the question, that compensation
should be given to the traders who suffered under the excise
system—who were the collectors of the very revenue which
they contributed to the Exchequer. The question was what
compensation were they entitled to receive from the country
for fulfilling that peculiar office. Every one agreed that this
compensation should be Oven' and as the difference between
the Right Hon. Baronet and his Noble Friend was only 3d.,
the House might very readily decide upon the amount of com-
pensation ? The Right Hon. Gentleman the Member
for the University was a great authority, from his
past experience and official :knowledge ; and he (Mr. Disraeli)
thought that he should be the very first person, under these
circumstances, who should be selected as an excellent mediator
on the subject. Fortunately they had an Act of that House,
passed at the end of the session of 1845, which not only ad-
mitted, but laid down that the differential duty of Is. 3d.
should be imposed. Ncee, in the phrase of the day, that was
a great fact. It was an Act -regulating the commercial transac-
tions of the Channel Islancls, concocted in the secret recesses
of the Treasury. He would assume that a fair compensation
would be 14d. The Righ,t Hon. Gentleman had told them
that at an interview with. certain distillers, they had fixed the
amount of duty at 18d.. an d announced that 9d. out of that
18d. was on account of the existing duty upon barley.
The Right Honourable Gentleman said there was writ-
ten evidence of this that the admission was re-
deced into writing at the time. But the distillers
denied that such writing existed, at least, they had never
seen it ; but he understood that the substance of the conversa-
tion whch had passed betor een the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer and the deputatiori., and had been reduced to writing
by three excise-officers, who were present. Thus the three
respectable distillers were .changed into three excise-officers.
The statement of the Rig ht ion. Gentleman was, he pre-
sume& an official romance. If three virgins were changed into
three dragons, the transforat iatinn could not be more complete.
(Laughter.) The Right Ho n. Gentleman admitted the cor-
rection of his Noble Friend's statements with two great excep-
tions ; these were the at nor int allowed on decreases, and the
charges of rectifying. Tbe Noble Lord has estimated the de-
crease at 3id.; while the I tight Honourable Baronet on the
authority of the three di: ;tillers gave Id, The distillers
complained that the rectifyri ng houses were removed a quarter
of a mile from the place as is ere they carried on the other pro-
eesses of their manufactu re , and that the excise duties com-
pelled them to manufactui •e an article which they were obliged
immediately to part with. The cost price of the article was
2s. 6d., the duty was 7s. I ,Od ~ and they were obliged to pay it
before they were permitt, ad to remove a gallon of it. Thus
they were forced to sell ail to arils's, article which had to compete
with a matured article from the Colonies. His Voble Friend
had shown that the decree see were equal to 3iti. per gallon,
and that the additional cost for rectifying was as 3d.
per gallon. The Rigb t Honourable Baronet stated
that these amounts w e greatly exaggerated. Let
them judge from the re to rn he had before him. He fouml
that from January, 1845, t, ) January, 1846, the amaunt of
foreignand
of thatgin ennot e redls
tf or
nh 3
1,2 8000gnaTITIonpstiwonerewaalsl
09w,
e3d92f
rg odnes.,
creases," being at the rate a 121,E per cent. He came now to
rectification ; arid here thts Right lion. Gentleman said that
the only individuals entitled to compensation were. the Irish
distillers. His Noble Frier is I said that the distance of the rec-
tifying house from the other distilling premises entitled him to
sixpence per gallon compen sa.tio n. Now the question was, what
amount of compensation shy ould be really given? That question
could only be answered by a s' svere analysis in a Committee up
stairs. lie could not help thinking that this was a very limited
question, and that a CORIr ni ttee mast very soon arrive at a
conclusion upon it. His N7o ble Friend had apologised in his
opening speech to the Hou is 3 for bringing before them a very
dry subject. He had stat e d that it was a question of pence
and farthings. It consiste . merely of five or six items—the
greatest amount being Is. ;110.—the lowest amount 6d., and
the middle course recomm et ided to the Cabinet 9d. He agreed
with the Right Hon. Get etlernan opposite that a Committee
might, if they worked ev tery day, bring in a report at the
end of a week. The R fight, Hon. Gentleman who was ass
opposed to Committees ha d -voted for a Committee to investi-
gate the navigation-laws. . -(Laughter.) He (Mr. Disraeli)
wanted to know how tha Committee was proceeding—how it
was going on—whether Ley were prepared to give their report
before Easter.----(Hear, h ea r.) The Right Hon. Gentleman
had offered the House a I snit rate communication upon the sub-
ject of a deputation. He ha d said that when he was in office
many years ago the distillers were then in communication with
him, and that the Iri st ; distillers made the following
communication to him. They had stated the case in the
following way to the Rig ht Hon. Gentleman. They re
ceived what they called c, an ipensation, but which in these days
was called protection in ~,the existence of that agricultural
legislation called the corn-i 'aws, and the only reason urged by
those Irish distillers at that ; moment was, that the corn-laws
as they then existed, mad e a difference to them of Is. per
gallon. That would be 2Os . per quarter, and he held in his
great
stateh theutmktbieen number
of
w I,n
he,
hand the average prices I. if barley at that time. He had taken
it furr s
not a h
ad n a
sras,for the Right Hon. Gentleman
d
administration, but
obnutatitnhethnaut period.mbero
barley of
ye i
da
He found that the average, price of 'was Dls and a frac-
tion. In 1822, it was 215.. 10d., and hewanted to.
know from
could there was
the Right Hon. Gcntlerns.rs bcoouve
8`)1, the price bpwe
ast
that
ab2tl6eds
.ut htpyaetroang
udbauartryt of
205., for it was a duty, how
selling at 21s. 10d. In
quarter. The price of ba, •le yin 1822.4sesrt
and the average price or tit ity was is
have
ee
beenßo re g
,21110 st per
per quarter according to the statement ofh
Gentleman, and upon ' the average of
Administration, it must I rave been ss. 6d.t e o°nd
PerPA of his
17,a110n. That
had been made
ar 'other Right Hon.
reminded him also of ano titer statement which had
Hon. Gentleman
by this Right Hon. Gt int Inman, or by
these sub.
dentleman. At any rate rit was by ay R.Alio.fh;
—Laughter.)
—( A laugh)—for he neveir made any ,totes
Right Hon.
jects unless it came from tb e highes
at the rate of co.
He found that, according; to the. Rig
Gentleman's
statement, the duty on barley
9d. per gallon to the dome et-,, distillers,
per quarter, and yet in tl: e average years to which theeenßil6ls.
Hon. Gentleman referrec i---in the year 1830, the price was as
high as he had already s tated. At the end of that year, its
could be proved that this Communication which was to decide
the fate of the motion ,•.rn its merits, and which had recorded
must have been
of
.E ; t ' ,
sessti:s‘ s Le di=pr,cfm if te,.
were granted to the,,...a, in 1830, 9(1.
per gallon, or IGs. her qr.,
was in effect the
which was the foundation for the. com-
pensation givo to the danaestic distillers, and the pi ice of
barley wasi, then 0, 2 s 7d. 1: left the House to form an opinion