The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-19 00:00:00

FRIDAY EVENING, MA.ltell 19, lB4i

six months. The Government were not aware of the effect
which this Bill would produce. Ile had takoo a high legal
opinion on the subject, which made it perfectly clear to him
that it would interfere with the rights of patties living thirty
miles along the banks of the Severn, which had exited for
700 years. He had proposed a clause to obviate this injustice,
but the Admiralty would not take any notice of it.
Mr. WARD assured the Hon. Member that no discourtesy
was intended towards him. The Bill did not emanate from
the Admiralty, but from the House, and was intended merely
to consolidate the clauses to be introduced into private Bil's
having no enacting power. If the Hon. Member would con-
sent to allow the postponement of the Bill till Monday, ha
would endeavour so to modify it as to save existing rights.
The Committee was then postponed till Monday.
GENERAL REGISTER HOUSE ( EDIN BURG H )BILL.
This Bill passed through Committee, and was ordered to be
reported.

The other orders of the day were then disp
House adjourned at a Quarter-past One o'clock.

THE NAVIGATION LAWS.
The Select Committee on the subject of the navigation-laws
met yesterday in Committee-room No. 2. There were pre-
sent Mr. Milner Gibson (chairman), Mr. Ricardo, Mr. Mit-
chell, Admiral Dundee, Mr. Hume, Mr. T. Baring, Sir R
Peel, lion. M. Villiers, Mr. Lyall, Sir George Clerk, Alder-
man Thompson, Hon. Mr. Liddell, and Sir Howard Douglas.
The examination of Mr. Browning was resumed.
By Mr. Hume —lie thought the repeal of the navigation-
laws would tend to increase the number of ships built in
Great Britain. He grounded this opinion upon the fact
that the materials for ship-building would become cheaper
by the lowering of the freights for their importation. It
would not tend to lessen the number of ships built in the
North American Colonies, but in every other country he
thought it would. That amount of British capital which
was now employed in building. foreign ships w..uld then be
employed in building British ships. He knew one English
house, the firm of Peter Dixon and Co., of Gottingen, who
built Swedish ships; but those ships were not able to corn
pete with our North American colonies. He believed the
effect of the repeal of the navigation•laws would be to raise
the rate of wages on the Continent to a level with those here.
Re knew the effect of the late reduction in the import duties
on cattle had been to raise the price of meat in Holland
from 2d. to 3d. per lb. He thought a great advantage would
arise to this country, particularly with regard to the South
Sea whale fishing, if British shipowners were allowed to buy
ships in Holland and elsewhere, wherever they could pick up
a bargain. He thought this permission would not injure our
own shipwrights, because they would be repaired in this
country, in order to insure their being admitted into Lloyd's
books. The navigation. laws caused a great disadvantage to
the Australian colonies, as they prevented the colonists pur-
chasing vessels strended on their coasts, which'frequently
happened. The consequence was, that the vessels, when re-
paired, were sent to the Persian Gulf or to Cochin China for
sale; but there was risk in. both cases, as the vessels must
proceed on these voyages without a register, and they were
liable to be seized by British or foreign cruisers and treated
as pirates.
Admiral Dundas—Did you aver know an instance of a
vessel being seized under such circumstances? Mr. Browning
admitted that be did not.
By Mr. Baring—Though the price of meat had not been
raised in Holland, he did not know that the rate of wages
had risen ; for when he was there there was a great scarcity
of employment. When he mentioned last day that the
Dutch East India ships refused to go to America for cargoes
of corn, he supposed that it was because they could not com-
pete with English ships; at all events, the tact was, they did
not go ; but he could not, of his own knowledge, speak to the
reason.

Mr. Baring—You told us also that in the China, Singapore,
ind Manilla trade, B: itish ships were preferred to American ;
will you tell the Committee in what particular trade the pre-
ference was shown, seeing that a British vessel is not allowed
to take foreign produce to America any more than an
American vessel is allowed to bring foreign goods to England?
Mr. Bro ning had heard several merchants say that they
would give the preference to English ships.
Examination by Mr. Baring continued—The average
freight of wool from Sydney to this country he believed
might be quoted at lad. The expense of pressing and stow-
ing amounted, he believed, to 11. per ton, and that expense
fell upon the shipowner. The duration of the voyage
averaged four months. The average duration of the voyage
from Mobile or New Orleans to Liverpool was thirty days,
and the average rates of freight for cotton from these ports
was about id. per lb. That the freight from Australia was
not much higher in proportion than the freight from New
Orleans, arose from the fact that ships wett to New Orleans
in ballast, while ships going to Australia carried freights
both ways. fie did not think that the colonists of Australis
had any great reason to complain of the present state of
things.
Mr. Baring—Would you advise a repeal of the navigation-
laws, distinct from what might be done by other countries?
Mr. Browning—Oh yes; my opinion is, that if we repeal our
navigation-laws, foreigners could no longer justify their re-
strictions by our example.
Mr. Baring—But suppose they do not become such easy
converts? Mr. Browning—Oh, they would find themselves so
crippled that they would be obliged to give them up.
Mr. Baring—But suppose they did not, would it not be a
disadvantage to our trade that our coasting, our colonial,
and our foreign trade should be open to every flag, while at
the same time eaeh country would keep to its own ships
exclusive advantages in coasting and colonial trade? Mr.
Browning—Yes, it would be a disadvantage at first, just as a
bridge interferes with ferrymen.
Mr. Baring—At first; but not afterwards ? Mr. Brown-
ing—We would build cheaper.
Mr. Baring—But in the meantime would it not be an ad-
vantage to foreign merchants ? Mr. Browning—Oh, cer-
tainly; but we cannot alter the policy of foreign nations.
Mr. Baring—Would not it induce parties to purchase
:American and other foreign ships in preference to British ?
Mr. Browning—lt might.
Sir Robert Peel What advantages have the North
American ports over British ports for shipbuilding, except
in the article of timber I. Mr. Browning—That is the only
I ifference.

Sir Robert Peel—What is the difference in the price of
copper sheating ? Mr. Browning—There is a difference of
.boutd. per lb. in our favour.
Sir Robert Peel—What is the rate of wages there ?
Mr. Browning—Quite as much, perhaps higher, than in
England.
Sir Robert Peel—Then we have every advantage in ship-
mildinff' that is possessed by the North American States, ex-
cept in the article of timber ? Mr. Browning—We have.
Sir Robert Peel-,-What alteration could we make in the
law which would give the British ship-builder similar advan-
tages to the North American ship-builder, and which he doe,
not at present possess? Mr. Browning—There is no altera-
tion required so far as regards the colonies.
Sir Robert Peel—Do the same observations apply to the
United States? Mr. Browning—No.
Sir Robert Peel—What advantages do the ship-builders in
the United States ports possess either in the shape of low
duties or of raw materials? Mr. Browning—The raw ma-
erial, except in the State of Maine, is dearer in the.
United States than in this country, and theylabour under
a disadvantage in regard to the price of metal, chain cables,
anchors, &c.
!fir Robert Peel—Do you consider that the rates of insu-
rance, apart from the stamp duty on the policy, are the same
in both countries? Mr. Browning—l think they may be
effected here at a cheaper rate.
Sir Robert Peel—. Then, with regard to Holland, are you
of opinion that a slop of a given quality may be built here
cheaper than in Holland? Mr. Browning—
rate ot wages tells much against the ship-builder.
Sir Robert Peel—But is not the trade between this count
•tnd Holland entirely in our hands? Air. Browning—Yes, it is.y
Sir Robert Peel—And that is the best test of the state of
he trade? Mr. Browning—To be sure.
Sir Robert Peel—On a former day you gave an opinion
that if the navigation-laws were repealecf the timber, the in-
surance, the copper, and the light dues, ought all to be abo-
lished, in order to give them fair play; do you mean that
there cannot even be a partial alteration in the navigation-
.aws, whether as respects our colonial or our foreign inter-
,:ourse, unless there be a previous reduction in the duties you
mention ? Mr. Browning thought that foreigners had an
ulvantage over British ships in relation to light dues, which
the latter were not called on to pay.
Mr. Villiers called attention to ihe fact that the question
was not answered.
Sir R. Peel—ls not the British shipowner interested in
having his ships built cheaply. Mr. Browning—
eiY
Sir. R. Peel—Suppose the navigation-laws cause a, heave
treiglit on timber, would that be any advantage to the ship?
owner whose ships were not employed in carrying timber?
Mr. Browning—Of course not.
Sir R. Peel—And so with copper ore? Mr. Browning—
To be sure.
Sir R. Peel—ls it not the interest of the shipowners
.gene •
rally that there should be low freights for the ringingiort
those articles that are used in the building of s lips? b
Browning—Decidedly. that it is for
Sir R. Peel—Then it is not correct to assume
the interest of the shipowners generally to have high i freighet-
,
-In these materials for ship-building? Mr. Brown g
L —D
cidedly.
Mr. Liddell—Would not the repeal of the navigation-laws
by bringing the whole commercial navies of the world
compete with us, lower freights? Mr. Browning—l think
we would then obtain a monopoly by our iadastry.—
(Laughter.)
Mr. Liddell—Whatl A monopoly on ships? Mr. Brown-
ing—No doubt of it.
Admiral Dundas--Do you think there are fewer or more
foreign naval powers to contend with us now in peace or war
than when the navigation-lawn were first passed? ell.
Browning—Our advantages are greater now than they were
then.
Admiral Dundas—A.ye, but Are they more- or less? Mr.
Browning—l think they are fewer.
Admiral Duni:las—N.. ould the repeal of the navigation-laws
add to the protection of this country in its supply of seamen ?
Mr. Browning—lt would very materially add to its strength.
Admiral Dundas—ln what way ? Mr. Browning—Be-
cause, it the navigation-laws were repeale4, and racilitirf
,vere afforded for naturalisation, we should have a supply ot
Swedish and Norwegian sailors.
Sir R. Peel—But if a war were to break out between this
country and these Northern Powers, should you have the
same confidence in them as in British seamen? Mr. Brown-
ng—l think that the pressing o !seamen must be given up
and that this country ought to give the seamen the market
value for their services, and then there could be no doubt we
'night man our navy to any extent
had a war with America,
Admiral Dundas—Suppose we
would the men now in the American service come to us? Mr.
• Yes would. The American is
Browning—Yes, they navy getting
extremely unpopular will our seamen.
Admiral Dundas—Unpopular in peace, but very popular in
time of war. Mr. Browning—l question that.
Admiral Dundas—But suppose these men were captured
in war, what would become of them? Mr. Browning—Well,
I don't know what the Americans might do.— (Laughter.)
Admiral Dandas—Suppose half our navy were manned
with American seamen, when an American war broke oat
where would our convoys be if these men refused to fight?
Browning.--Oh, I don't think the Americans would come
into our navy at all.
Sir R. Peel—You say that the wages of seamen ought tt
he mised from 2-. 5s per month to the American level I.
3/ se. per month ? Mr. Browning—..A
:es, and with sin-1;:
store=, such as sugar.
Sir R. Peel—Has y tur house tried the experiment of suet,
2111 increase?—(Laughter. ) Mr. Browning--I have occa-
sionally paid as high as 31. per month.
Sir R. Peel—But if you were sending out a ship from 8
British port would you give more than the current rate of
wages ? Mr. Browning—Of course not.
Sir R. Peel—Then how do you suppose it possible to raise
the rate of wages? Mr. Browning—My remarks applied
only to a time of war. To man the navy in an emergency,
you must give the market value of seamen.
Sir H. Douglas—By the repeal of the navigation-laws, and
affording facilities for naturalisation, would not the safety
of the State be endangered, by being ee much entrusted
to these foreign seamen? Mr. Brawning—l think it would
to a small extent ; but except in the case of a war with
their own country, when they might be free from service.
the Scandinavian race generally shows an attachment to our
service.
Sir H. Douglas—le it not a fundamental rule of national
law that no subject can divest himself of his allegiance? Mr.
' Browning—Yes.

Sir H. Minglas—Then would it not be a dangerous expe-
riment to leave the satety o' the State to them? Mr. Brown-
I Olio]: they would not come.
~ Sir G. Clerk-• You stated before that great ioconye-
nience was experienced in the Australian colonies from their
not t.eing allowed to purchase Dutch ships tor the whale
fishing. Do Your ships that are engaged in the fishing also
bring home the oil? Mr. Browning— No; it is sent home on
freight.

Sir G. Clerk—Then what is there in the navigation-laws
which prevents you from purchasing Dutch ships to be
employed in the whale fisheries ? Mr. Browning—Be-
cause there is a differential duty of 15/. per ton on sperm
oil caught in foreign ships, which, however, expires in
1849 ; with regard to block duty, the duty practically does
not apply.
By Mr. Hume—The French ships that brought sugar
from Bourbon to Australia were not allowed to carry the
produce of the colony to another British colony; the con-
sequence was they were paid for their cargoes in gold, and
this in the years 1841 and 1842 bad led to serious inconve-
niences in the country, by deranging the currency.
By Sir G Clerk—The chief supply of sugar brought to
Australia came from Manilla and Java, which were brought
in British ships, and he could not say that he had ever known
more than four or five French ships arrive in the colony in
the course of one year.
By Mr. Baring—lf there bad been no navigation-laws
these vessels would have taken the produce of the colony to
Ceylon or other British colonies. At the same time be did
not think there was 411 y-thing, even in the present state of
the law, to prevent these ships taking the colonial produce to
British India.

By Mr. Hume—He saw no reason why the Australian co-
lonies should not flourish to as great an extent as Singapore,
if the navigation-law were repealed.
By Sir G. Clerk —He did not think that a French ship
could go to Singapore and bring back produce to the United
Kingdom any more than she could go to Australia and bring
back produce to the United Kingdom.
Sir G. Clerk—Then what restrictions do the navigation-
laws impose on Australia that they do not impose on Singa-
pore? Mr. Browning did not know if it was not that Sin-
gapore was a free port.
I'he Committee adjourned till one o'clock on Tuesday.

PARLIAMENTARY BUSINESS.
From the Votes and Proceedings of the House of annmons.)
THURSDAY, MARCH 18.

The following Railway Bills were read a second time, com-
mitted, and referred to the Committee of Selection :
Eastern Counties (Enlargement of London and Stratford
Stations, and Amendment of Acts).
Shrewsbury and Birmingham Railway Act Amendment
and Branches.
South Devon Extension and Amendment).

NOTICES GIVEN AT THE PRIVATE BILL-OFFICE.
The following Railway Bill is appointed to be read a
second time on Thursday, March 25:
Chester and Holyhead (Extensions at Cheater and Holy-
head, &c.—No. 2).