The Sun.
London, England, 1841-01-15 00:00:00

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"dnablo to extricate himself. In-
who was engan:;.,'
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vas carried a:48.9 with the I.'-aat he was in by
the vessel,
a field of ice,
On Monday
was
sent .:7,, the police,
formation was giving a description of
his person, and stP.'..ing that he had escaped and taken the beat with him. ft appeared, however, that such was not
outside the Justitialcaosttiviact-;,7ct'
the case ; it vats the ice that took him away ; and after
he had been carried several miles up and down the river,
he was pic'ced up by the barbour.rnaster's galley and thenback to tho JOstitia• „ •

A general meeting of the Shareholders in this Company,
who had signed the original deed, was held in the Com-
pany's Offices, 13.)nd-street, on Monday last, convened by
advertisements in Manchester and London papers, of
which the following is a copy :
"Manchester and Birmingham Eiitension Railway Com-
pany.---A General Meeting of the Shareholders of the Man-
chester and Rirmingliam Extension Railway Company is
hereby convened by the Provisional Directors, and will be liel:
at the Company's Offices, Bond-street, Manchester, on Mon-
day the 11th day of January, 1841, to consider the expeslienc3
of adopting certain resolutions to be submitted to such meeting,
in reiation to a proposed s,ariation of the original line of ra 1-
way of the said Company, and for the dis olution of the said
Company, and the re-constituf on thereof; or the formation of
a new or substanted Company, for constructing the said varied
line. And such resolutions are intended to comprise certain
other objects relating to the affairs of the Campany.—The chair
will be taken at ty elve o'clock at noon precisely.
THOMAS WHEELER.
"Manchester, Dec. 17th, 1840."
About a quarter-past twelve o'clock there were not thirty
Proprietors present; but subsequently the room became
filled, and there could not be fewer than sixty Shareholders
at the meeting.—Twenty-two minutes after twelve, Mr.
JAMES BURT proposed that Mr. Tho nas Ashton, of Hyde,
should take the chair. The motion was seconded by Mr.
Alderman BROOKS, and passed unan.mously.
Mr. ASHTON took the chair, and called on Mr. 'l'.
WHEELER, the law- clerk of the Company, to read the ad-
vertisement (above given) convening the meeting; having
done which Mr. Wheeler said--This meeting is convened
by the Directors under the clause in the Subscribers' agree-
ment, which is the deed constituting the Company, which
I will read :
" That if at any time it shall appear, that the Board of Di-
rectors have expended the full sum of three porn is ten shil-
ling; per share of the subscrib.ll capital of the sa'd Company in
the nece-sary application or applications to Parliament for the
proposed Act or Acts incorporating the said Company, but
without obtaining the Fame, then, and in that case, it shall not
be lawful for the said Board of Directors to proceed to make
any further application to Parliament for any such Act or Acts,
if the Subscribers to the said Company or undertaking Alai
consider it a lvi:able to abandon the said projected undertak-
ing, and to dissolve the said Company ; and that, in the case
acoresaid, it shall be lawful for the said Board of Directors, or
for any twenty of the Subscribers to the said Company or un-
dertaking, to call by public advertisement, to be inserted in
three Nlanchester and three London newspapers, a general
meeting of the Subscribers to the said Company or under-
taking (of which said general meeting, and also of the object
thereof, twenty-one clear days' notice sall be given by the said
advertisement), and the majority of the persons present at such
general meeting (such general meeting, nevertheless, to con-
sist of not less than forty persons, holding in the aggregate one
thousand six hundred shares in the said Company or under-
taking) shall have full power to determine whether and in
what manner the said projected undertaking shall be further
proceeded with, or whether and upon what terms and condi-
tions the said undertaking shall be abandoned, and the said
Company dissolved, and the affairs thereof finally wound up."
The advertisement has been inserted, 21 days before
this meeting, in three Manchester and three London
papers —The CHAIRMAN then called on Mr. WHEELER :0
read the report, and Mr. Wheeler said that printed copies
of it for the Proprietors would shortly arrive from the
printers.—Mr. THOMAS OLLIVANT said, that, before the
Report was read, he thought it would be desirable to take
the sense of the meeting as to the propriety of whether the
holders of scrip should not be present.—Mr, T. WHEELER:
That is a question which the deed determines, Mr. 0111-
cant. The object of the meeting being to dissolve the
Company, the meeting must be held in strict conformity
with the provision of the deed which has just been read to
the meeting.—Mr. OLLIVANT : I did not understand there
was anything in that to exclude the Scripholders.—Mr.
WHEELER: Oh, certainly ; their names are not to the
decd. Any gentleman whose name is to the deed is ad-
missible here, and the gentlemen who have put their names
to the deed are now in the room ; but, of course, those
who have not done so, and thereby have not converted
themselves into Shareholders, are not present; and for
this reason, that if any resolution were passed by a majo-
rity, consisting portly of Scripholders and partly of
Saareholders, it wculd be illegal, and the Company
could not act upon it.—Mr. OLLIVANT : Then a per.
son whose name is to the deed, but who has sold
his shares, has a right to attend this meeting ? Mr.
HEELER : Certainly ; because, though he may have
sold his shares, he does not get rid of his liabili:y to the
Company, and therefore he has a right to attend. But
the Scripholders have no s teh right ; otherwise it would
be possible for a gentleman signing the deed for a hundred
shares, and who by virtue of them would have only one
vote, to subdivide these hundred shares amongst a hundred
people, who might come here, and swamp this meeting by
voting in a particular mode.—Mr. OLLIVANT : My object
is only to be satisfied as to whether the Scripholders are or
are not entitled to be present.—Mr. G. R. CHAPEL!. : I
do not attribute to Mr. 011ivant the slightest participation
in the document which I am going to read to the meeting ;
but I think, when it has been read, you will be perfectly
satisfied at the justice of the reason given, as well as tl e
legality of the thing—the deed not authorizing scrip-
lieldere, to be present. I have had a great number of
papers and documents Writ to me gratuitoasiy, but-al tun-
fortunately of one sort. I say so, because, so far from
operating on my mind to give me sny dislike to the un-
dertaking, the reverse has been the case. I believe that
those who have taken so much pains, and been at so much
expense, to convince ma that the undertaking is a bad
oee, and of no value, ere sure that is valuable, or they
would not have taken the pains and trouble to labour to
convince others to the contrary. But I will give you the
document. [Mr. Chappell then read a lithographed form,
in the following terms
" Sir,—ln consideration of your paying me £ for five
shares in the Manchester Extension Railway, I hereby engage
not to sign any new Parliamentary deed in respect of the said
shares ; and, if required, I further engage to sign a petition
against any application to Parliament to carry out the under-
taking under the powers of the old deed, and to do nothing
which shall deprive you of the full benefit of the proportion of
any balance that may now remain in the hands of the Coin-
pany, attached to such five shares.—l am, Sir, your obedient
servant."'
Gentlemen, I'll name the party from whom this came. It
was Mr. Edward Ashworth, who is the agent for the Lon-
don and Birmingham Company, and the Midland Counties
Company.—( Hear.) Now, gentlemen. are undertakings
like ours to he swamped in so disgraceful, mean, and con-
temptible a manner, as for the agents of other railway
companies to go in the dark, and buy our shares, and then
get people to come here, and overturn all you have done to
advantage a line which was started for, and I believe will
be fur, the benefit of Manchester ? I call these means
despicable. A fair, manly, honourable opposition we had
reason to expect; but we had no reason to expect, from
Companies like these, such en opposition as this dccument
makes known to the public. The intention is evident—
and they even went so far as to tell a broker, " A man
with a wooden leg will do"—it was done in the expecta-
tion of parties buying the shares being admitted here to
vote and swamp you.—Mr. T. OLLIVANT : I presume it
is almost unnecessary for me to deny all participation in that
document. —Mr. CHAPPELL repeated he distinctly disclaimed
any intention to impute such a thing to Mr. 011ivant.—The
CHAteeteN said, that Mr. Ashworth, the very person who
had signed that document, had applied to him, to be pre-
sent at this meeting ; and Mr. Baxter, who was engaged
for the opposition, had also applied.—Mr. Wm. RAWSON :
Might not a middle course be taken ? I have never seen
any thing in the public press of this kingdom, like the steps
they have had recourse to against this undertaking; but
I must say that I should like to hear if our opponents, or
enemies, I will call them, have anything to communicate,
to put us in possession of facts that we ought to hear. He
might be admitted and allowed to state anything he had
to say, but not to vote.—The CHAIRMAN: You have heard
our law-clerk say it would be illegal to admit parties not
Shareholders.—Mr. WHEELER: To vote. Mr. Itawson
is not aware, I think, that the purpose of this meeting is
merely to dissolve this Company. It is not intended to
bind the Shareholders or any Shareholder, to any future
course, by the proceedings of this meeting. Any Share-
holder will be at liberty either to prosecute the new under-
taking., or to take back his balance , whiebever he may
please.—Mr. Reweoet said, if the 'Company were to
be dissolved, he should not like to be hurried kith the dis-
sollitleto at Once. If after inquiry be was not in=
dined to go on, he had not the least doubt that
he and every Shareholddr wishing to retire might
get out without kiting a farthing, itheterore, he
thought it absolutely necessary, that the Shareholders
should have a little time to consider valiethea suala a Mode
might het be adopted of diesolaing the Company as Would
got them oat without any loss whatevere_Mr. WHEELER
said, the Shareholders would have time tp Consider as to
their future enlist, ivhether they thatight ?a to the
Ithderlatibg Or not; and when they had made up their
minds, they would then be in the position of either be-
coming members of the nest cerapanye pt bf
altegetheia ithd receiving back their balances.—Mr. AL-
aftecirr asked some question relative to the alteration in
the line, which he did not clearly understand.—The
CHAIRMAN thougatit would be more regular to read the
Report —Mr. Alderman BisOuit; said; tiittt Mr; Asliworth;
the agtnt rer the London and Birmingnam. mid also for
the Midland Counties Lines, had a diErent interest to the
Shareholders in this Company; an interest in cutting it
down, and destroying it ; and that was the reason they had
taken such trouble in going round to purchase shares, in
order to destroy this line. It might be that our Directors
had managed badly; but it was clearly the interest of
those lines to do all they could to damage this, and there-
fore it was a fortunate circumstance that the law existed
to prevent Scripholders from coming and voting at this
meeting.—Mr. H. NKWBRRY said that Mr. llouldswortb,
M. P., he presumed, had also applied for admission; but
the Directors had dealt out equal justice to him and to
others ; telling him that no Scripholder could attend this
meeting for the reasons assigned.—Mr. WHEELER then
read the following :
" Report intended to be submitted to a Meeting of Shareholders
this 11th day of Jankry, 1841.
" The advertisement au'e'ielo convenes this meeting explains
its object,
•
" It was formed in the year 1838, with the design of shorten-
be"....7e;ul to rirle';:wsubehrieoflbyjetehtempraoyeebeedbinegttserofutnhdeercsotoompd,aniyt.w ill
ang the communication with London, by the construction of a
railway through the valley of the Trent—a district which is
known to possess almost unequalled facilities for the purpose ;
and your Directors, under the subscribers' agreement constitut-
ing the Company, are empowered, in their discretion, to select,en
and fromtimineatitoon timeof the
vary,the
course P
y, The
line, as oricinally laid down, joined the _
Birmingham Railway near Stone, in Staffordshire,
Tamwortl
and,
i,
through or near the towns of Rugeley, Lichfield,
Rugby, upon the°oifnt theof commencement
ramilemvaecommencementor of termination
Athmttne, and Nuneaton, terminated at

London and Birmingham Railway. There was. no provision,
under the then arrangements, fur the transfer of traffic from the
Grand Junction to the proposed line, nor was any junction be-
tween the lines in immediate contemplation ; and . hence the
town of Liverpool, and the large population whose route to an,i
from London is by way of Liverpool, may be said to have been
practically excluded from the benefits of the new communication.
" An application was made to Parliament in the Session of
1839 for the necessary powers to construct the railway: but
the application did not result in the {sassing of an Act. The
Parliamentary Committee, however, to whom the Bill was re-
ferred, encouraged the Company to renew their application, by
appending to their report the very unusual, if not altogether
unprecedented, recommendation that ' every facility of which
the rules of the House would admit, should be afforded to the
promoters in a future Session.' Assured by this recommenda-
tion, and by the unanimous sanction of the Shareholders, con-
veyed by resolutions of a meeting held in September, 1839,
your Directors prepared for the Session of 1840, and perfected
their arrangements for a second application.
" Pending the Parliamentary preparations for that applica-
tion, the line of the Chester and Crewe Railway was purchased
by the Grand Junction Company, who then sought, as the
Shareholders are already aware, and accomplished, an arrange-
ment with this Company, under which it is provided, that the
whole traffic between Liverpool and London, which comprises
rut:eh of that from Ireland and Scotland, should traverse the
Trent Line.
" The railway which the Company had then in view, con-
templating only the traffic between Manchester and London,
and between Manchester and the Eastern Counties of England,
was (as has been explained) unadapted to the extended pros-
pects thus opened to it; and the Directors, therefore, deemed
it advisable to postpone for a year their application to 'the Le-
gislature, in order that, in the interval, the railway might be so
varied as to meet the Company's altered circumstances. But,
before such postponement was determined upon, the Share-
holders were called together, and their opinion was requested
on the subject. The Directors-further took occasion to submit
for adoption or rejection, a proposition which had been made
to them by the London and Birmingham Company, to the
effect that the latter Company would pay to this Company
20,000/. if the project were abandoned, and a majority of your
Directors would pledge themselves net-to be parties to its re-
newal- This proposition you unanimously rejected ; the pro-
ceedings of your Directors you as unanimously approved; and,
acting under the sanction then obtained, plans were deposited,
in pursuance of the standing orders of Parliament, as the basis
of an application in the now ensuing session, for one of two
lines—namely, a line from Stone to Rugby, with two branches—
or a line from Stafford to Rugby, with one branch —both of
ehich lines are calculated to form a junction with the Grand
Junction Railway, and are therefore adapted to the Company's
new arrangements.
" The choice of line was left open for future inqu'ry and
agrcenient ; and the Directors have decided, after mature deli-
beration, to adopt, and apply to Parliament for its sanction to,
the litter line.
" The preparations connected with the deposits and notices
are all completed ; and although, under the Subscrib,rs' agree-
ment already executed, the Directors deem themselves em-
powered to pursue the projected measure, yet, as it comprises
deviations from the original line of same extent, they are un-
willing to proceed further in the exercise of the powers so con-
ferred upon them, without giving any Proprietor, whose judg-
ment may differ from their own, an opportunity of recording
such opinion by withdrawing from the Company.
" The Directors, therefore, have now to suggest that for this
purpose the Company originally constituted under the title of
The Manchester and Birmingham Extension Company,' be
formally dissolved, with a view to the organization of a sub-
stituted Company, to carry out the objects specified in this
Report.

It will, of course, follow, as part of this arrangement, that
.he accounts of your Directors (who are the sole creditors of
the Company, no portion of the deposits already paid having
been expended or appropriated) should be andited, and the
sum ascertained, to which, after contributing their quota to the
expenses incurred, the several retiring Shareholders, if such
there be, will be entitled."
Mr. JAIN BRADSIIAW, before he moved the adoption of
the Report, would make one or two observations. He had
given the undertaking a great deal of attenti in, and was
satisfied of the soundness of it ; and if he had wanted any
thing to confirm that opinion, it would only be necessary
for him to look to the great activity and the consideration
its opponents had given to it, to satisfy him that this un-
dertaking was sound. He begged to move, that the Re-
port be received and printed for distribution, under the
direction of the Provisional Directors.—Mr GASKELL, of
Warrington, asked, if passing the Report pledged the
Shareholders present to the dissolution:4 the Company.
Mr. WHEELER : It does not. There is a subsequent re-
solution. The Company can only be dissolved by a for-
mal resolution.—Mr. CHADWICK seconded the motion.—
Mr. RAWSON said it did not follow,because the Proprietors
of other railways did not wish the Extension Line to go
on, that it was a profitable undertaking. It might be in.
jurious to other lines, and yet not a beneficial one to the
Shareholders. He wished it to be understood, that no
man had a higher opinion of the integrity and honour
of the Directors of this Company than he had ; but he
liked to know something about a concern in which he
had a heavy stake. He did not know what this Rail-
way was to cost, and he would like to know about it be-
fore the Company either went on or dissolved ; and
those gentlemen who pledged themselves to a dissolu
tion without consideration, would of course lose part
of then aseeee....__Mr. G. R. CHAPPELL said he hnd from
the first held 200 shares in the undertaking, and had given
it as much attention as any other gentleman in the Direc-
tory ; and if the Shareholders looked at the attendances
of the Directors, though gratuitous, they would find them
regulareancleeniforgehed neither added to nor dimi-
nished the number of sliiiTcre--Origiiiiiity-shisittetreanct•-ife
this Corpany were dissolved to-morrow, and any other
gentleman would take it up, he would take 200 shares in'
the new Company. He did not want Mr. Rawson to pin
his faith on him ; but that was his own individual opinion,
and the unhandsome conduct of their opponents would
induce him to go on to the uttermost extent.—Mr. 11.
NEWBERY thought Mr. Rawson's proposition a good one,
with this difference, that a Committee might be appointed
to consider ; and those who chose to go on might du so,
after the opportunity of full inquiry, and then no gentle-
man would commit himself without knowing the facts
of the case. But he thought Mr. Tootal was able
to explain to the meeting the position in which the
Company now stood, and give some insight into
its affairs. It had been done before, but it could be bee
again now.--Mr. RAWSON wished to say to the Share-
holders who, if the Company were dissolved this day,
did not wish to join the new Company, they might get
out by losing half their money. If they would not
agree to dissolve without full inquiry, then they might
expect, he would not say they might be fully certain, to
get out without a farthing loss.—Mr. JAMES BURT thought
before entering into discussions of this kind, they ought to,
attend to the business of the day. They had, in the first
place, to determine whether the Company should be dis-
solved or not; and then to express the sense of the meet-
ing about going on with the undertaking by a new Com-
pany. He did not think that procrastination was benefi-
cial ; but rather that the Shareholders ought to show their
opponents, that they were unanimous in carrying on the
new concern.—Mr. BRIGHT, of Rochdale, said, it would
be well if the shareholders knew what the state of the
funds was..—Mr. WRATISLAW, of Rugby, asked what the
expense would be of the variation.
Mr. EDWARD Tooree said—On the occasion of our
last meeting, I went at some length into the cetimated
cost of the concern. I can only reiterate the statements
which I then made, having carefully looked at them, not
only before I made them, but afterwards, and frequently
since ; and I have the satisfaction of knowing that I need
neither retract nor qualify one single remark which I
then offered to the Shareholders. I have given myself
considerable trouble to converse to some extent with the
engineers of various railways; and I have put
to them, in the course of the last year, hundreds of
questions with a view to elicit the truth with respect
to the probable cost of this line. From all the
inquiries I have made, 1 see no reason to vary the opinion
I then gave with respect to the cost of the line for which
you have already applied to Parliament. Perhaps it
would be just as well to allude to that cost again, and
then to the probable additional cost of the varied line.
The application you made to Pirliament in 1839 was
most severely contested, as most gentlemen here are pretty
well aware. Mr. Bidder was examined on behalf of this
Company, and cross-examined, for about three days ; and
his estimate impugned, as far as possible, In the evidence
of Mr. Vignoles, Mr. Ristrick, and Mr. Locke. The
estimate of oar own engineer for the construction of the
line was 18.,554. per mile. Mr. Vignoles went over the
same details as to land, earthwork, masonry, permanent
way, arid edntingeacies, as Mr. Bidder; he (Mr. Vissaoles)
being then the engineer of the Midland Counties Railway,
and of course having an interest, from his position, to go
as ref as 114 could. I will just read you the different
items, showing the vafiana between the estimate of Mr.
Bidder and that of Mr. Vignoles. Land, estimated by
eaeh at iti,CiOtii Earthwork, Mr. Bidder made,
282,368/. ; Mr. Vignola, 1110,624/. Masonry, Mr.
Bidder, 241,210/ ; Mr. Vignoles the same, Permanent
Mr. Bidder, 375,2251. ; Mr. Vignolles the same. Cone
tidgenelesi toe gatile by both. Mr. Vignoles made
the cost of the line per mile 18,9901 ; being 4401.
per riiile more titan Mr. Bidder's estimate. Next
as to Mr. Locke, viiiiest“fhafater as all engineer stands
very high, and who was particularly celebrated fof making
the lines entrusted to his charge at a low rate of cost,
whose ability I don't call in question ; for he is a very
atlile,4nd f believe eonecientious man. I have had consi-
derible Walt Mr Locke on this very
i estimatse
I will give his estimate, and thou repeat a remark
which he made to rue at an interview I had with him... At•
Locke is the engineer of the Grand Junction Railway
Company ; they were at that time oppoiedto_
d ut.pon as the
puny, and Mr. Lucke's evidence was OUk
most powerful against us, iriasniuch
as his eXperience was
great, and his reputation high. His estimate for land was,
200,000/. being 30,000/. more than the otner estimates ,
for earthwork '20,0001. more than Mr. Bidder; masonry
the same as Mr. Bidder; permanent way the same; and-
contingencies 4,0001. more. The result amounts to this
—that the estimated cost of the line would then be
19,7004 per mile. It is fair to suppose that Mr. L scke
did his utmost for his then employers; no doubt of it ;
and he was perfectly right in so doing ; and I think it
is perhaps the highest compliment to our engineer, and
to his estimate for the Extension I ine, :hat the greatest
difference in the paper estimates is tally about 1,200/.
per mile. Mr. Locke added a considerable sum per
mile on account of forty bridges which w
ill not be
required. The private conversation I had with Mr.
Locke. of course, I cannot repeat here ; but I may state
this. I remarked to Mr. Locke, that I might probably be-
called upon to state to the Shareholders of tile Company
what the probable cost of this line would be; and at length
I said, " Mr. Locke, if I state to the Shareholders that
the Extension Railway, including carriages, engities, wag-
gons, stations, sheets, cordage, ec , and coetingeneies,
will be completed for a sum total of 25,000/ per mile,
shall I be right? Because I have made up my mind never
to state a leg! sum thau I eonscieatiously believe wilt really

be required." I told him I might probably state it to the
Shareholders at 24,0001. or 25,3001. His reply was, If
you do that, Mr. Tootal, you will have the pleasing sa.
tisfaetion, year after year, to state to your Sharehol-
ders, that you' are glad to find that the cost will ben
less."—A SkeeenoLoee—Does that refer to the Stafford
and Rugby Line ?--Mr. E. TOGTAL : To the &afford
and Rugby Line—that varied line of the Company
which is under discussion this day. Since then. I have
had other opinions. I had a letter only the 'other dies,
dated the 15th January, from an engineer whose eminence
no one would call in question. I had asked him to be
good enough to revise our estimate, as a personal
friend • and he writes as follows :—" When the hue was
in Patliament last time, and during the struggl! on
the question of the estimates, I looked carefully into the
items, and then satisfied myself that the estimate wai
abundant. Indeed, it differs from ordinary estimates, i
Tieing formed, not upon opinion or speculation, but epees
the actual cost of :works of an exactly similar character,
This class of estimation clearly renders the chance of
error the least possible ; and on the character of the work.;
on the Midland Counties Railway, theca:tint:ate is as nearly
certain as it is susceptible of being made. I make these
few remarks for the purpose of redeeming a promise.'"
This lies reference to the Stone and Rugby Lin., ; and
this differs from that only in the distance north of
Rugeley. Faorn Rugby to Rugeley, a di*tatice
miles, the lines arc the same ; the deKeetice ie that the
former line passed to Rugeley by way of S one, whilst
the present passes thither be way of Staffirci. There is
a difference in the cost of the works on tleeoc two portions
of the line; but from tafferd to Rugelae the varied dis-
tance is Si miles, atad that 8} miles out of 561 is the only
variation. The only portion of the line which Las not het et
inquired into already before Parliament, and sifted to
the very bottom,
is this portion of 81 miles ; and there,
fore that is the only portion of the line upon which, any
doubt can he tbrOWn. •••-[ A SHAREH 'I,DE asked: if the
varied line would be longer or shorter? arei. Mr.
TOO TAL was understood to say I' shorter." fie them
continued.] With respect to the new line, the Govern-
ment Commissioners have required from our engineers
a detailed estimate of the cost, which is Low before tho
Commissioners ; and therefore I am sure you Will think it
right that it should not at present be meteput:e dom.
ment, being in their possession for them to anabse• In
the report on the Stained and Rugby line, which tell in 4
few weeks be made, the whole of these details will be fare
niched; and the Government corrmissioliers trill, tee
doubt, direct attention to tb.e advantages hi length, as well
as other qualities in the proposed lice. Dot I think it
quite right to give the particulars of the estimates of this
varied line, from one end !a the other, as sub-nittra to the
Commissioners. They are .I—Earthwork, 251,001/. ; nei-
sonry and tunnelling (there being r short tunnel required)
272 0001. ; permanent way, 340,0001 ; emtingencies,
8,700/. ; making a total of 080.0001., or 17,b001. per
mile, to which is to be added cost of land and stations,. On
the former occasion, Mr. Bidder and Mr. Vienoles
precisely as to the land, and Mr. Locke added 30,000 t try
their estimates; therefore, we may say, that the salts,' of
the land has been pretty well sifted already. The amount'
of costs fur stations on the line was put down at 40,W01.
on the last occasion ; but I apprehend that it will be wider
39,0001., because the stations on the Stallard and Rugby
line will be just like the ordinary stations on the Grand
Junction and the London and Birmingham lines, the ordi-
nary roadside stations, the traffic nut being collected at
them, bet at Manchester, Birmingham, or London; there-
fore the stations would be wholly of an economical nature.
clan't:t!.iik that I need sae more with respect to theprobablo
emit of this line. I think that no Shareholders ever before
had the same opportunity of judging of the probable cost
of their line before the Act of Parliament for it was ob-
tained.—(Applause.)—Dr. Laos : Allow me to ask whe-
ther the land between Stafford and Rugeley will not cost
more than that from Stone to Rugeley•—Mr. I: ow ALI)
TutereL: Sonic portion will, but some portion will not
cost more than other portions of the line, on the esti-
mote given in for the land on a former occasion ; end that
includes all the "ornamental property," which you have
heard mentioned, that was upon the old line. If any gen-
tleman wishes to have further information with respect to
the cost of the line, or anything else, I shall be li .1-ivy to
give it. Then, as to the cost of the permanent way,—but
if we look to the SJush- Western Railway, their permanent
way is taken at 5,500/ per mile—yours is put down at
6.0001. [A SiteeenoLoee: Weat is the cost of perm-
nent way on the Manchester and Birmingham Lii,e?]
The Manchester and Birmingham, I believe, is 6.5001. ;
but they had adopted longitudinal timbers on account of
their viaducts Wes it occur to any gentleman to ask anv
other qa!seion ?—A SHAREHOLDER, who had misunderstocii
a former stetement, asked as to it, and Mr. Too rm. said that

Ale last estimate given embraced the whole line —Mr.
&tuns said that a printed pat cc had been distributed
at the door of the Company's offices pretty freely
[signed .‘ Thomas Lai.dor, agent to the Meiquis of All-
glescyl, which stated the names of ionic, lanueweere on
the varied line. Had they any greater interest in of:puking
it than the old line? Dal the old line cut through aey of
this ornamental prnperty, which was So saved ?—Mr.
TOOTAL I :rust you will boar with me. I ant sere,
Shareholders will not intentionally pu,, such questions as
would be likely to damage the undertaking. With respect:.
to the Marquis of Anglesey, I have before me a document,
when an application was made for this Bill last year, in
which the name of the Noble. Marquis appears as the first
assenting nobleman. The fact was, that the varied line
would pa's through a farm of his, about four miles from
Beaudesert, and he was now to les found amongst the dis-
sentients; but any gentleman who has been connected with
railwa)s for some years will be aware, that the less thut is
sem et.eeb don't wisli to say eny thing
unpleasant to the Noble Marquis, or to any one ; but gentle-
men know that there hi.ve been opponents to railways be-
fore; but they don't always continue opponents. I may
just say that the Marquis is not unfriendly to the rail-
way ; he has at all times been friendly to the under--
-taking; but his does not like its present route, as re-
gards its passing through this feral. It
that an alteration might be made, whether without
difficulty I don't know, but it is possibly ; and I repeat,
that the Marquis is not unfriendly to the line, but only to
this particular portion. His son is Member fer Lichfield ;
this line is virally important to Lichfield ; and I have no
doubt that Lord Alfred Paget might be induced to use it s
influence with his father to withdraw his opposition, and
thus let Lichfield have the benefit of the position in which
be is placed.—Mr. WitaTiscaw said he had looked at the
list of the other names advertised as dissentient landowners
and occupiers ; and he would say, that it was a very dif-
ferent list of opponents from the former one —(Hear.)
—A SHAREHOLDER—What advantages do you propose by
substituting the new for the old line ? Mr. E. TOOTAL
They are fully explained in the Report which has been
read ; but the principal feature is, that, se far as has been
shown, the new line will embrace the entire traffic from
Liverpool, Chester, North Wales, Ireland, and Scotland ;
while, on the last occasion, we did not take credit
for a single shilling of this tragic.—( Hear, hear. y
Mr. BRIE:HT: May the Shareholders be informed what
agreements have been made with the various Railway
Companies ? There is some agreement with the Grand
Junction Company. Are they to hive any extra
profit from this line ? There is a branch to this
Birmingham and Derby Line, and there will, doubt-
less be some arrangement made there ; and I think
there is one if not two more Companies with which this
Company are to make some arrangements. Now, if tine.,
or four slices arc go out to obtain the consent of these
Companies, it appears to me, that the money which the
Shareholders arc sinking will be given to the public with-
out any return to themselves.—Mr. E. TOOTAL : We know
nothing with respect to any contemplated wrrangt•metitt
with any other Company ; and, as to this Company being
connected with other railways by short lines, I thick we
must reverse the position of Mr. Bright, and say, that in-
steal of their being suckers from the line, they arc feeders.
We present the shot test hoe to the east, and-the line be-
comes a feeder,. and draws the whole traffic into it.—Mr-
BRIGIIT : Bus don't you purchase some part from the other.
Company ?—Mr. TOOTAL: Certainly not.— Mr. WHEELER:
And the opposition of the Midland Counties Company is
based on the very principle, that we give to the Birming-
ham and Derby Line an advantage which it does not
row possess, and that we thus enable the Berming-
ham and Dzrbe Company to euToete with the Mid-
land Counties Company, by giving 'the former tae ad-
vantage of bringing their traffic upon Cer line, and
so make the route much shorter than- it is
at
present.—Mr. RAWSON : If I understand Mr, Beig:.'t'g
question, it is in substance—Have you not enabled.
the Grand Junction Company to go over the Extensiors
Line at a less rate than otherwise they could do according;
to the Parliamentary rate?—Mr. Toorm. : No Company
in the kingdom does, I believe, charge the Parliamentary
rate. The Grand Junction Company run over the Liver-
pool and Manchester Line ; Many railway Companies n)
to a great extent over other lines; but nom, of there
charge the Parliamentary rates.—Mr. JAMBS BURT: A
nil
. we run over the Grand Junction Line, too,—Mr. Jostitev.
P. Ws:misers ; There seems to be a great Jettl f_woos-
conception about this line, and e_ to 01.11 Cr (; rn
panies. I can only say that, if our line, or that apkelied
for in 1839, had been secured, end we were now relit::
for operation ; and if the Grand Junction Company weir,
at this time to make an offer exactly similar to that which
is contained in the arrangement to which reference nose
been made, I;` 'as a Proprietor of this Company, should
jump at it. [The CHAIRMAN and Mr. CIIAPPELL ex-
preesed their • concurrence with this statement.].A
Suaattgot,vsn': But we don't read in the Report what.
that arrangement is, and we are not told about it.—
Mr. CHAPPSLL : Why put a sword into your enemy's
hand to cut your own throat?—Mr. BRIGHT said he Ind
attended a meeting here twelve months ago, at whiebt
he did not speak or take any part; but he was their
excessively annoyed at what appeared to be the desire of
the Directors to keep everything quiet. He did not
want them to tell anything injurious to the Company ; but
everything else lie was quite sure they ought to make
known to the Shareholders. Mr. 11. Isiaweette begged
to say, that et re;
the Directors were quite ready and willing to
tell anything and everything that would not be likely to•
injure the interests of the Shareholders generally ; but no
man in his senses would expect them to tell many things
which they could do, provided they bad obtained their Act,
when they had so many opponents against them in so
deadly an opposition, and ready to take advantage of every-
thing and anything that occurred. The Shareholders all.
knew, that with the Committees and the Standing Orders
of the I-louse of Commons, they could not make known
many things which they should otherwise do, merely be-
cause of technical objections ; not, certainly, because of
aeything of vital importance, bet simply because of these
legal difficulties ; and he was sure, when the Share-
ieldera read the publications constantly appearing
against the Company, they must be aware that it had the
most active and determined opponents that any
Company aver had, and that therefore it behoved
them to be cautious; but if any gentleman,- a bona fide
shareholder, wanted information, which the Directors
could disclose without detriment to the interests of the
Company generally, tiny would be most ready and willing
to do so —(Applause.) He was sure there was not any
thing that they wished to withhold from the Shareholders;
but this was a very different thing from giviog information
generally to the shareholders and the public, sad so tell.
t,lO much k.:f your case, in order to let your opponents
gtt the upper hand,,of Too.rat. ask!, that, the
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