The Sun.
London, England, 1847-12-06 00:00:00

IRELAND.

In reply to Sir J. WALSH,
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL stated that he
would inquire with respect to the changing of the
venue in Ireland. He was prepared to answer any
point of English law, but as the law differed in Ire-
land it would be necessary for him to make inquiries.
DENUNCIATIONS FROM THE ALTAR
(IRELAND).
Mr. FITZMAURICE wished to know whether
the law, as it now stood, gave to the Government
power to bring to trial those priests in Ireland whose
denunciations from the altar had been immediately
followed by the assassination of the person so
denounced.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. J. O'CONNELL—I rise to order. I wish
to know whether it is competent for any Hon. Mem-
ber to ask any question which infers a calumny—an
unproved and atrocious calumny.—(Order.)

Mr. FITZMAURICE trusted that the House
would not think it necessary to take any notice
of the interruption of the Honourable Member.
He wished further to ask, in the event of
his question being answered in the negative,
whether it was the intention of the Government to
strengthen the law in that respect, so as to enable
them to deal with those who, by the moral influence
which they possessed over their congregations, had
in certain instances incited the people to acts of
murder ?—(Hear, hear.)
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL stated that he
was not aware of any facts connected with those cases,
except such as had appeared from time to time in the
various newspapers. This answer was however dis-
tinct to the question of the Hon. Member—if any
person could be proved to have been guilty of inciting
or procuring murder they could be dealt with and
punished according to law.
MEDIATION IN SWITZERLAND.

Mr. OSBORNE wished to know whether the
Government had received any information from their
envoy at Switzerland, as to whether the joint media-
tion of the different Powers would be likely to prove
effectual in settling the state of affairs in that country.
Lord PALMERSTON stated that communications
had been received, which showed that in point of fact
the civil war was at an end, and there being, therefore,
no longer any contending parties, the question of
mediation was at an end.— (Cheers.)
POOR REMOVAL BILL.

In answer to a question put by an Hon. Member,
Sir G. GREY stated that it was not the intention
of her Majesty's Government to propose any substi-
tution or alteration of the Poor Removal Act of 1846.
SCHOOLMASTERS IN SCOTLAND.

Mr. 13. COCHRANE gave notice of his intention,
upon an early day, to move for the appointment of a
Select Committee to inquire into the duties and emo-
luments arising from the office of schoolmaster in
Scotland. .
CRIME AND OUTRAGE (IRELAND) BILL:
Sir GEORGE GREY moved the order of the d ty
for the second reading of this Bill.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL stated, that in the absence
of his Hon. Friend the Member for Limerick, (Mr.
W. S. O'Brien), whom he regretted to state was
absent through severe illness, he rose to move the
amendment, which, otherwise, that Hon. Member
would h tve done, which was that the other orders of
the day be proceeded with. He felt it to be his
duty to oppose the Bill at this stage and upon
every stage of its future progress. In the Bill
there was but one single point which he could re-
cognise as worthy of receiving his support—that
part was the conferring of additional powers upon
the Lord-Lieutenant to enable him to send addi-
tional forces of police into disturbed districts.
Some of the clauses of the Bill were most unconsti-
tutional and arbitrary, and he felt determined to give
the Bill every opposition in his power. The Govern.
ment ought to have brought forward some measure
calculated to remedy the very great social
distress which existed throughout that country.
He thought that before measures of coercion had
been brought forward, those of a remedial nature
should have been tried. He would not at the pre-
sent moment go into the details of the Bill, but he
would ask the Government in what way they had
entitled themsleves to come to that House for the
present Bill, and in what way they discharged
themselves of the inconsistency of having
so strenuously opposed the measures of coer-
cion proposed by the late Government, two
years ago, and now coming forward with a measure
of coercion of their own—(Hear, hear)—without
having brought forward one remedial measure for
the amelioration of the condition of the Feople of
Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) The present Government had
allowed no less than five years to elapse without bring-
ing ferward one single measure for the improve-
ment of Ireland. It might be said that it was
in consequence of the state of parties in the country
that they had ;_not brought forward such measures,
but such a statement was but an indifferent satisfac •
tion to the people of Ireland. What had the people
of Ireland to do with parties in this country ? If the
Government
attemptcoaut thldnooste of pass
coercionmeasur ?_esof(aumeealri, hear.)
why
He thought the Government had no pretext for
bringing forward a coercion Bill for Ireland,
in the present session, they might at least have waited
till the actual time of the meeting of Parliament
had arrived.—
(Hear.) Indeed, the Noble Lad at
the head of the Government the other night stated in
terms that he had called Parliament together thus
early for the purpose of the appointment of the Com-
mittee on commercial distress. If the Government
had up to February, the usual time of the meeting of
Parliament, exerted the law as it at present stood,
and found it ineffectual, he would then have sup-
ported them in bringing forward strong measures.
The era of social improvement had not come, it was
' true, but it was upon the Government and the
English Parliament, and not the unhapdy people of
Ireland, that the shame must fall. They had ne•
glected all measures of a beneficial nature. They bad
applied no remedies to the plevailing evils of Ireland.
and therefore it was not surprising crime and dis-
content existed in Ireland to a large extent. This
Bill, however, could not possibly improve this state
of things. It would only serve still further to
exasperate the people, and he hoped it would not
be persevered in. Let the Government bring
in a short Bill, asking for power to increase the con-
stabulary and establishing a registration of arms,
and he would give him his strenuous support, but he
did say that they ought not to ask for the other powers
contained in the existing Bill, until they had tried
the effect of remedial measures in calming the
irritation which prevailed in Ireland.—(Hear.)
Mr. Carden, a Tipperary magistrate, bad adressedd
a letter to the Lord-Lieutenant, in which he re-
commended that arms should be taken from

all suspected persons—that all persons of
bad character who were out after a certain hour its
the evening should be liable to transportation, and
that heavy fines should be inflicted on certain
districts in default of the conviction of
guilty parties. A premium was thus held
out to juries to find innocent persons guilty,
in order to save the fines. There was a pre-
cious specimen of a Tipperary magistrate for you!
Tnose were the' men on whose advice the
Government had brought forward their Bill.
The Right Hon. Baronet, (Sir Robert Peel) was not
unlike the sailor, who having plenty of grog and to-
bacco, was asked what more he wished for, when he
replied, " more grog and more tobacco," for he and
those who acted with him, cried out for more
Irish Arms Bills and for more coercion. He flung
back the epithets, "the vulgar expedient of repeal,"
and " don't parley with Ireland," with the contempt
they deserved to those who utttered them.—(Hear,
hear.) Under the Government of the Right
Ilonourable Baronet (Sir Robert Peel) the
evils of Ireland grew day by day. It was to the
door of his party that he laid the present state of his
unhappy country. He blamed the Government for
adopting such a measure as the one they had pro-
posed, whilst they left the roots of the evil untouched.
Let them lose no time in striking at the root of
the evil, and of at once eradicating them. He
trusted of all things that the abominable
police system system would not be extended.
He had given credit to her Majesty's Government for
good intentions ; he had not, nowever, much to bear
him out in that opinion. He had endeavoured in
vain to find out what remedial measures were to be
proposed for Ireland, It was true it was the intention
of the Government to bring forward a Grand Jury Bill.
But such a Bill would only be a modification of
an existing institution, it would not go to the root
of the matter, or cure the radical evils of the
country. The Encumbered Estates Bill had not yet
been brought forward, and he did not know
when it would be, and even when it was
passed it would be years before the slightest be-
neficial effect from the working of that measure would
be felt. There were no other measures proposed to be
brought forward as remedial measures. It had been
prove.d by Committee after Committee that the real
root of the evil was to be found in the land
question. Surely it was high time that that
long agitated question should be settled.
It had been said thi,t that was a difficult question.
Such had beer. the excuse made for years. It would
not be assumed that the statesmen of this age had net
considered the question, or formed some opinion
upon it. The present Government ought to have
come forward boldly at once, and met the diffi-
culties of the question. Prussia and other countries
had obtained a settlement of the question, and why
should not this country endeavour to follow in their
course ? The Hon. Member then read several state-
'news for the purpose of showing the misery and
distress that existed in Ireland. He was assured
that they would have a recurrence in the
year 1848 of the severities of the winter
of 1847, and yet no remedial measures
had been been proposed or thought of by the Go-
vernment. The principle of the Irish Po, c-
law was to run Ireland more and more into
debt, and do no earthly good. It was useless
for ultimate good. Ha denied that the poor-law
would be a source of regeneration for Ireland.
It was an act of injustice to force upon Ireland a
poor-law in its pauperised condition ; and considering
the advantage this country had secured by the Act of
Legislati►e Union, he had a right to call upon the
House for an efficient measure of relief rather
than a coercive Bill. Twelve millions of
money was the estimated loss Ireland sus-
tained from the potato disease, but there were
oth r losses which had reduced the capital of Ireland
within the last two or three years, and he wanted
t ► k now how the present capital of Ireland, whichcould
not support its paupers three years ago, could be
chargeable with the support of its pauperism in the=
present day. He wanted money for leland.—(oh,
oh.) He said it candidly, he wanted money and
as this country owed Ireland much more money than
it had advanced. It was nothing but common justice
that money should be paid by this country to prevent
the people of Ireland from dying of starvation. He
repeated, therefore, that money must be had. Ireland
was the mainstay of this country during the time of
the war, and it was the height of ingratitude for that
House to treat the claims of her people with contempt
•id d♦viation.—(" Oh, oh.") It was all nonsense to tell
him that England could not bear this additional
exi ense, and he could assure the House that
if it did not come forward nobly and gene-
rously to the assistance of Ireland in its present
exigences, he, for one one, would not answer for the
cousequences.—(Hear, hear.) It was utterly im-
possible for the property of Ireland to support its
poor, and unless this country came forward with
further advances of money, thousands upon thousands
must die of starvation. Fever and disease had
already taken root in the land, and as the cholera
was making rapid strides through Europe,
he looked with considerable fear and apprehensi in to
the future. He therefore implored the House to
come forward in a grac;ous spirit and assist them
with another grant of money in order that they
might provide against coming evil.
(LEFT SPEAKING.)