The Sun.
London, England, 1841-06-04 00:00:00

YENING EDITION

to call the gentlemen of the Grand Jury amt Magistrates into
hi. private room, and endeavour to persuade them against. Ca-
the ic emancipation—that calling upon him to tamp r with the
Jury upon a great political question ; yet that letter 'sac de-
feoded by the Right Hon. Baronet. He could not w ell ex,mse it
indeed but he glozed it over, and preve.,ted any official notice
of it being taken. He established a force of yeomanry 32,000
strong, 1,9t.0 of them were in the province of Ulster, and from
that period down many victims Lid been yearly sacrificed on
the anniversary of their orgies. It was a tact probably little
known that the Ulster Yeomanry opposed the teetotal move-
ment ; they even fired into their meetings; so violent were they
that the Archbishop of that province had requested Father
Mathew to abstain from entering his province until assured of
his safety. He would ask if Hon. Gentleman opposite were
in power, would not every Magistrate whe had been removed
from the bench be restored ? Would not the bench be again
cromded witia the bigoted enemies of the people ? Five Judges
had been made] during the last ten years, not one of whom
could be accused of any political partizanship. But on the
other side, there were Judges now upon the bench who ought
to have retired long ago , one was upwards of 80 years of age ;
he had gone circuit for three years, and his mind was gone, yet
he remained on the bench, in order that no one should be raised
to it in his place who was friendly to the people. They would
have Judges placed on the bench who had publicly stated their
belief that a Catholic did not think himself bound by an oath ;
its what situation would a Catholic prisoner, with a Catholic
witness, be placed in before such a man ?—( Cheers.) It was
said that these things could not now be inflicted upon Ireland ;
but the Right Hon. Baronet could not govern without the aid
of the party, and the ten years in which they had been muzzled
had not tamed them —the spirit remained still. But what was the
situation of things in England? Had not one-third of the gen-
tlemen opposite obtained their seats by uttering the most
atrocious calumnies against the people of Ireland and their re-
ligion ? " Surpliced :ruffians, " demoniacal priesthood,"
" villains "—these were the epithets showered upon the min's-
ters of religion. He had thought it his dnty to protest against
men, supported by the utterers of such vile language, coming
into office, for it would destroy the last hope of the people of
Ireland. They had the Chartists with them now, but how long
would they keep them after they obtained power?—(Cheers. )
He would remind them that during the disturbances in this
country the people of Ireland repudiated the Chartists alto-
gether.—(Cheers.) They refused their aid—they (the Tories)
now courted it.—(Loud cheers.) Were they not all aware
that they had been courted, aye, and paid at Notting-
ham ?—(Load cheers.) Well, they had the Chartists now ;
but would they go along with the Chartist movement, or
would they put them down ? Suppose they were
to break out again, upon such an attempt being made, would
the then Government look to Ireland for support? Would
they look to Ireland and withdraw 10,000 soldiers to maintain
peace ? No, they would instead have to send tens of thou-
sands into that unhappy country, to keep the people down.
What were their prospects in this country ? There never was
a period of greater distress than the present. There were
small wages and lessening employment. The Government
offered to reduce their burdens, and give more employment.
What said the other side ? Let things alone, and they will
better themselves. But before doing so, was there no danger
to the most important institutions of the country ? A noble-
man in another place was reported to have cried out in horror,
" What, tax the bread of the people !"—( A laugh.) Poor
maw, he was a man of but one idea—when a second
one rose to his brain, he became confused. He knew that it
must be a tax when it went into the Treasury and relieved the
people from other burdens; but he could not conceive that it
could possibly be a tax when a larger impost went into his own
pockets and those of his class. He and those opposite refused
to ghee their etarviag countrymen cheap bread. Oh, they were
more cruel to this country than they were even to Ireland.
They refused the people cheap sugar because they discovered
for the first time that they had among them ardent advocates
for the abolition of slavery.—(Hear, hear.) But would Hon.
Gentlemen opposite vote with him for admitting sugar at a
cheap duty which was not slave-grown? No. They would
not. Did Hon. Gentlemen opposite who hoped to draw out
the militia in Ireland, know that in two counties of Ireland
only was there a majority of Protestants, and in these counties
the people who enjoyed some comforts, would not take arms
against their fellow-countrymen? And yet Hen. Gentlemen
talked of their governing Ireland. Perhaps they believed
that the people of that country might be conciliated by the
Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire, who was to be
the sweetener of their cup, their organ of peace in Ireland.
No • it was from the present administration alone that Ireland
could expect justice or tranquillity. He was aware he had
little to hope from the people of England, who were silenced
and oppressed by being placed within the range of tyranny and
corruption. It was only, however, he would repeat in con-
elusion, by conciliation towards Ireland, that they would esta-
blish the security of the throne and the prosperity of the
country.-(Hear, hear. )
Mr. Lle DSA denied that bribery had taken place, as
stated by the Hon. and Learned Member, at the English elee-
flea, as far as his knowledge went ; and it certainly had not
taken place in Sandwich fur which he had been so lately re-
turned. He would only add, that he should feel great plea-
sure in giving his vote in support of the resolution then before
the House.—( Hear.)
Sergeant JACKSON observed that the speech they had
just heard from the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin,
though alluding to so many topics, had never once referred to
the immediate question then under consideration. The Hon.
and Learned Member had among other misstatements in the
course of his speech, misrepresented the opinions of the Right
Hon. Member for Oxford—he (Sergeant Jackson) would say
knowingly misrepresented.—(Cries of " Order.") He begged
pardon—he did not wish to say anything personally offensive
to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, but he should ob-
serve that it was not usual in that House to attribute to
others sentiments which they had already repudiated.
On the question of the slave-grown sugar, the Hon. Gentle-
man endeavoured, by shifting and contrivances, to set himself
eight with the advocates of negro slavery ; and, for that pur-
pose, he brought forward a motion for the admission of free-
labour sugar ; but the Hon. and Learned Member knew well
that such a resolution would be contrary to the spirit and letter
of treaties adopted by this country. The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman had spoken of the present Government as the only
one which could confer justice or prosperity on Ireland. But
that very Government connived at the repeal movement of the
Hon. and Learned Member—a movement, which, if it sue-
eeeded, would be more injurious to both countries than any
mb,asure ever adopted. Itepealers were now continued in the
Commission of the Peace and offices of trust, while a gallant
Member of that House had been deprived of his commission
because he had proposed a party toast at a political meeting.
The truth was, that a more one-sided and mischievous course
had never been adopted in any country than by the present
Government in Ireland. But, in fact, it did not deserve the
name of a Government ; for, if they had a Government, the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman, who was the main-
spring of the repeal agitation, would be (Mee& to
behave himself. and to conform himself to the laws.
Then there had been an allusion to bribery and intimi-
Aetion at elections, and a charge had been made by
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman upon teat head against that
(the Opposition) party. But it did not become an advocate
of Hon. Gentlemen opposite to bring forward such an accu-
sation ; for it appeared from the evidence taken before the
Committee of the House that the foulest cases of corruption
had been perpetrated upon their side. Ho had some ac-
quaintance wish the raanceu:res of the party opposite, and their
attempts to tamper with electors. He knew that a political
agent of; the Liberal party in Ireland had gone to: the borough
of Bandon—he did not say whether recognised or not by any
one—but a political agent had gone down to the borough which
he (Mr. Sergeant Jackson) represented, and had promised to
every Conservative elector who should vote against him ap-
pointments for his son, and to every elector who should remain
neutral a sum of money.—( Hear, bear.) He knew the
anxte'y of the Ministry to eject' him, but he defied them to
do so, relying as he did upon the se?port of the unpurchase-
*hie though humble freemen of 'seldom. The Hon. and
Learned Gentleman had also talked of the Oppression of the
landlords of this country towards their tenants; but it was
'tilt known that no man in I, eland pressed more severely upon
h s tenants than the Hon. and Learned Member ; no man was
more ready to distrain them than he was.—( Hear, hear, and
cries of "Order ")

Mr. O'CONNE'LL rose to order. That was totally untrue.
Sergeant JACKSON said that the Hon. and Learned
M: tuber had thought fit to defame the landlords of his country,
and 1:e should not be so thin-skinned as not to listen in return
to certain charges brought against himself. Was it not a fact
that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had distrained a tenant
in April last (as s'e understood) for arrears of rent?—(Order.)
Mr. O'CONNELIi complained that a personal attack had
been made upon bins, while he had not the possibility of a re-
ply. He appealed to the Chair if that were in order.
The SPEAKER here made some observations which did not
reach us.
Mr. Sergeant JACKSON said it would be an injustice to
Ireland—it would be an atrocity to say one word against the
uprightness of the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin. The
Hon. and Learned Member had frequently put forward at-
tacks aga nst the landlords of Ireland in their absence, and
now lie complained of being himself attacked in his presence.
Would the Hon. and Learned Member venture to say that he
maser distrained a tenant in the month of April for rent due on
the 15th of March ? He (Mr. Sergeant Jackson) had been
assured of the tact by a gentleman on whose veracity he could
rely. With respect :o the disturbed state of Ireland, it was
riot the conduit of the landlords that caused it, but the conduct
pursued by Government in Ireland,—by the officials in the
;Castle of who, when applied to for protection by the
:
landlord, met o,C.lse latter with the sentence, " Property has
its duties, as well os its rights." Two murders of an atrocious
nature had been lately committed in Ireland. Both the gentle-.
men differed iu polities f. ma him (Mr. Jackson). The only
eause to which the murder of one of those gentlemen could be
attributed was, that lie had desired to appropriate to his own
purposes certain portion.; of his own land, of which some
tenants bad been dispossessed. The consequence was his mur-
der, and why ? Because the Hon.
band Le
removedfrom nd,
They we..e now called
pulesby a Jury of his country
men.ed
ees to support .a Government which
allow .
cur-
able and Learned Member to go on that
disorganizing
If the imen
the country.—( Hear, hear, hear. )
who mt on the Ministerial side of the House, knew the state
into which the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin brotetht
Ireland, they would strenuously condemn his conduct.a _a.
respect to the want of confidence manifestedtowauardht 'tor Atilow
je.ty's Ministers. and the consequence which
the Riesht3llon. Gen-
from it—eamely, resignation of
ine-
tleman, the Secretary at War, had drawn a. very
Government
lion. That Right Hon. Gentleman said, if the
eeaied to possess the confidence of the House of Commons
they ought not to continue to held the reins of powet:; b_eu;
the want of confidence he meant, was not that shown
ia th
Inability to carry certain measures, but distrust in the mode of
administering the existing law. That was the want of confi-
dence which, according to' the Right Hon. Gentleman, should
cause the Government to resign office. But that was only
liraoing a distinction without a difference—it was " an ingeni-
ous device," &plausible, but by no means sound argument.
Was there any more important duty of the Executive,
than to propound measures to the Legislature, which
they thought necessary for the goo.' of the people ? It was
pot the law of the Constitution that they were not
simple Members of Parliament. When the Right. Hon. Bare-
vet the Member for Tamworth retired from offiee in 1835.
the Noble Lord at the head of her Majesty's Government =aid
that the Right Hon. Baronet acted in conformity with the
aririt of the Constitution. The distinction, then, which the
bight Hon. the Secretary at War drew was but a specious
argument in defence of a Government that was determined to
prolong the duration of its ignominious existence as long ita it
could. It was a distinction negatived by the conduct of the
leaders of every Government and by the conduct of the Right
Hon. Baronet ( Sir R. Peel). whom his party would ever support.
The Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin had called them
a heterogeneous mass, but they would be found united as one
nun. They placed confidence in their leader, and would sup-
port him despite the tubs thrown to the whale by the Right
Hon. Gentleman opposite with respect to what would be his
legislative and. judicial measures. The Government had no-
th:ng to fear in going on with their measures but what,
their contemplation, was the greatest of all evils—a resignation,
and to avoid that they were determined to throw out somethinz
*herewith to agitate the eountry, and they discovered that the
Comelaws were most calculated to cause a ferment in the
**not', withal would suit their purpose.
NNELn L rose to explain. He said, strictly
apetks°;►.he tsar no right again to address the House, but lie
4,77.1:77;dwne" X. Common justice, when personally at-
sto—t-Tie allowed to :lect of his own operty, too, he ought
eras bound to say, first,ytit.fteltre words in his own defence. He
stay manner in the Re_
spa had been very much assailed in
w pers for every, thing but that. He

never was attacked for his conduct as a landlord. He would say, •
neat, that in all the lands which he possessed, there was not a
single farm that was not let at from 4s. or ss. in the pound less
than farms on the neighbouring estates. except in one place,
where his property was met by that of his lion. Friend be-
bind him ( Sir David Roche). He (Mr. O'Connell) had, be •
sides, more persons on his property with houses and gardens
who paid him no rent at all, thin any other gentleman he
knew of.—( hear.) He never turned out a tenant for the pur-
pose of taking possession of the farm ; whenever he
did turn out a tenant it was on some other ground, and an-
other person was put in possession of the vaunt farm on pay-
ing a year's fine for getting into possession. He had never
heard of it before. If his agent had done it he (Mr. O'Con-
ne'l) was in utter ignorance of it. There never was a diAress
raised upon his land, and as long as he live.d there never should
be. If the statement were correct the person who had done it
and himself would immediately part connection for the rest of
their lives. _ .

Sir D. ROCHE said he felt it to be his duty to bear his
testimony to the conduct of the Hon. and Learned Member
for Dublin as a landlord. He was a most forbearing landlord,
and he assured the House and the Hon. Member for Bandon
so muds so as to throw other landlords who were willing to do
justice to their tenants into the shade.

➢lr. O'CONNELL inquired of Mr. Sergeant Jackson the
name of his authority.
Mr Sergeant JACKSON replied that he would give it on
a proper occasion.
Mr. SL ANEY was anxious to address the House very
briefly on the present occasion ; and in doing so he would en-
deavour to avoid following the example of these who had gone
before him, and not indulge in personalities. The present
was a most important question; and he asked, what would the
people think of the mode in which the debate had been con-
ducted? There had been recriminations on both side►, but
they had failed to point out the mode by which, if the present
Government were driven from office, the Government was to
be conducted by their successors. He did not deny that the
Right Hon. Baronet would endeavour to do something to re-
lieve the great distress which existed in the country, but what
was it he proposed? He believed there was a growing feeling
of indifference in the country as to the spirit of parties in that
House; and that he looked upon as an alarming symptom.
He thought if the people were to embody their opinions in one
sentence, it would be a " plague on both your factions."
His belief was that this was occasioned by great changes that
had been taking place among the body of the people unnoticed
by the Legislature. His opinion rested upon facts which no
one could deny. The people were looking to see what great
practical remedy would be applied to the evils under which
they suffered. He had himself visited the eastern parts of the
town, arid he found masses of people in such a state of wretched
destitution as to almost exceed belief. He said this arose from
the inefficient state of the law. What was the object of their
allusions. To show that the great body of the people cared
little which party held the reins of power ; what they were
anxious about was to know by which party their condition
would be most alleviated. The increase of crime at present
was most alarming. It might be asked what did he pro-
pose? Why, it was his opinion that the balanced state
of parties was a great evil, and, much as he was
attached to those around him lie would rather see the Right
Hon. Baronet in office, doing something for the relief of the
people, than go on day after day as they did at present. One
great evil suffered by the people arose from the fluctuation of
employment, and it was the duty of a wise Government to
prepare them for this and its consequences, by a sound educa-
tion. He thought the present Government had not sufficiently
attended to this subject. Another great evil was the fluctua-
tion in the price of food.—( Hear, hear.) He said it was abso-
lutely necessary for the safety of the country that some step
should be taken. They were bound to begin their legislation
by attempts to improve the condition of the working classes.
In the war of parties, in their eagerness to obtain place, these
things were almost forgotten, but if it were not done he feared
they would have soon reason to regret it. He was not san-
guine as to the result of this contest ; but he did implore the
Right Hon. Baronet, after he should succeed to power, to use
it, not for the aggrandisement of his party, but for the improve-
ment of the condition of his fellow-countrymen. One great
claim they had upon his sympathies was, that they were unrepre•
sented. Should he sit in any future Parliament, he should
give his vote to either party that should attempt to alleviate
their condition.

The Earl of DARLINGTON said he had heard the speech of
the Hon. Gentleman who had spoken last night (Mr. Handley)
with great pain and great regret. He had long had the pleasure
of knowing that Hon. Gentleman, and God forbid that he
should quarrel with any person on account of a difference in
political opinions. The Hon. Gentleman had read speeches
delivered by eminent statesmen ten years since, and had charged
those statesmen with inconsistency. Consistency was one of
the most dangerous topics that conlei be touched upon in that
House.—( Hear, hear.) There were few statesmen who had
passed through a political career of twenty years whose conduct
did not afford scope for charges of inconsistency. But why had
the Honourable Gentleman confined his charge to the
Right Honourable Barenet, when the Noble Lord who sat
ust below him (Lord J. Russell) had, in the year 1821, deli-
vered in Devonshire so powerful an address in defence of
the agricultural interest?—( Hear, hear.) He only referred
to this to show how unfair it was to make such attacks.—
(Hear, hear.) He was greatly astonished at the course which
had been pursued by the Hon. Gentleman. Only a week or two
ago he had expressed his want of confidence in the Govern-
ment; the Hon. Gentleman now retracted his words, and,
without any apparent reason, declared that his confidence was
restored. The Hon. Gentleman said there were passages in the
Right Hon. Baronet's (Sir R. Peel's) speech, in which he
said he was prepared to alter the sliding scale, and he asked his
Right Hon. Friend what scale he proposed. He (the Earl of
Darlington) had carefully read the speech of his Right Hon.
Friend, and he could not discover the least ground for that
statement. One thing the Hon. Gentleman by his speech
last night had clearly proved. Whenever the subject of the
Corn-laws had been brought forward, the Hon. Gentleman had
boldly defended the agricultural interest; but the speech of the
Hon. Gentleman was tantamount to a declaration that when
the Government and the Corn-laws were at issue, be would
desert the Corn-laws.—( Hear, hear.)
Sir C. GREY thought nothing could be more inapplicable
to the speech of the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Lincoln-
shire than a charge of tergiversation and want of straightfor-
wardness.—( Hear.) To him it appeared as explicit as a speech
could possibly be made. The debate had that night taken a
singular turn. Two of the speeches consisting of an attack on
the Hon. Member for Lincolnshire, and another, that of the
Hon. Member for Bandon, of an attack on the Hon. and
Learned Member for Dublin. He had heard nothing that
night in the speeches of Hon. Gentlemen opposite which had
anything to do with the question. He regretted exceedingly
to see the Right Hon. Baronet in the position in which he
was placed by bringing forward the present motion. He had
attempted to reduce to a formula a part of the unwritten law
of Pa liament, and in doing that he had gone further than any
of his predecessors, leaders of an Opposition. The Right
Hon. Baronet had not stopped short at representing to the So-
vereign that the .Ministers did not possess the confidence of the
House, but he had pee a step further, and said that their con-
tinuing in office was contrary to the spirit of the Constitution.
Did the Right Hon. Baronet consider to whom those words
might be said to be addressed? If it was an imputation on
the Ministers was it not also an imputation on that part of
our threefold Government which, having the power to dismiss
them, retained them in office ?—( Hear, hear.) The motion
was trenching upon dangerous ground, to say the least of it,
and ought only to have been brought forward on the most ur-
gent necessity. At the beginning of last session only, the House
had decided that they could not come to a vote of want of con-
fidence. Since then the only measures brought forward had
been the Irish franchise, the Poor-law, and the present mea-
sures—the most important ever propounded. They announced
the commencement of an adoption of the principles of free
trade, and an abandonment of those principles of prohibition
which had hitherto formed the foundation of our commercial
and financial policy, and, as a commencement, the three im-
portant a titles of sugar, timber, and corn, had been selected.
The other party selected the reduction of the duty of sugar as
the ground of their opposition. and the Noble Lord the Mem-
ber for Liverpool brought forward a resolution most art-
fully worded, so as not to bind his party to anything,
stating the House was not then prepared to reduce the
duty on sugar. The very word "prepared" insinuated that they
might be at some no distant time prepared to do so, and on a
resolution so artfully worded, they obtained a majority, and
then called upon the Ministers to resign their places. He
knew not by whose advice the Right Hon. Baronet had placed
such a resolution on the Journals of the House, certainly not
by that of the Hon. and Learned Member for Exeter. He
thought it would be the most unfortunate thing that could
occur to the Rieht Hon. Baronet to have a majority on this
resolution, and to take office on such grounds. He believed
the days of triumphant majorities were gone, and he was glad
they were so. He should like always to see parties so nicely
balanced, as to prevent any measures being passed
without due consideration. If the Right Honourable
Baronet came into office upon such a resolution,
lie would find it a more slippery resting place than even his
sliding scale. —( Cheers.) It was impossible now to act upon
precedents of a century, or even half a century back. The in-
terests of this country were now so vast that it was impossi'de
to do so ; and he would ask the Right Hon. Baronet if he
were to bring forward in his budget any financial measure
affecting any of the interests of even the City of London, whe-
ther lie might not usexpectedly find himself in a minority, and
then ts ith this resolution recorded on the Journals of the House
how could he hold office? The Right Hon. Baronet, if he
succeeded, would have prepared a deadly weapon, by which
the legitimate power of the Crown would be destroyed, and the
Minister would only subsist at the pleasure of any one of the
great commera ial or influ ntial bodies of the country, instead
of at the pleasure of the Crown, according to the spirit of the
Constitution.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") If carried it
would prevent the Right Honourable Baronet, if he were to
take office, from taking the sense of the people upon any im-
portant measures he might bring forward. It was a source of
regret to him to see the Right lion. Baronet's position before
the public so damaged as it had been by his bringing forward
this resolution.--(Hear.) The speech of die Right Hon.
Baronet in bringing forward the resolution, contrasted favour-
ably, from the absence of personality, with the speeches of his
supporters; but this spoke but little for the boasted unanimity
party.omfeathsuereshid ar
Tthiveetr ate f,l
Ministersbringing bad been to
free-tradel
bring them forwird by events which no party could control—
by the increase in the population—and the increased production
of our enataufactures--and by the constant and prolonged stater
of misery which the thousands withoutlefmaplotrent wereitt
ohfesaLr"v)ation from
—abitCenitess inof 'a' Hear,sta e
em-
ployment, yet surrounded by a fertile count:,wnwanwotuelrdeof itllebedfbeyriningh.
tolerated that the inhabitants should be prevented by their
Town Council from trading with the inhabitants of that
county, who were willing to employ them, and to trade with
them, because some of the Aldermen possessed estates in distant
counties and insisted on having the monopoly of the supply of
the Won ? The real question was not whether these
measures
should be carried—they must be carried—but whether they
should be carried fully, freely, and fairly by those who had
brought them forward, or reluctantly and slowly by the Right
Hon. Baronet. Long as the present di-cussion hail been, it
hail not been too long to in'o,m the people sufficiently on all
the points involved, especially that with respect to the Corn-
laws. Upon 64 subject he would venture to say that not
twelve months would pass away before the landlords would have
come to the conviction that far the safety at their prosperity
the Coin.laws should be repealed in uniors with other Ineesures
of a restrictive nature.—(lleac,)
Mr. C. BRUCE supported the resolution of the Right Hon.
Baronet the Member for Tamworth. He had listened with
attention to the various speeches of Right Hon. Gentlemen on
the opposite side of the House, all of whom
.h had mystified and
qeestien, erni totally failed ed in answering
argumentstebveadedth e
e ral
of the Right Hon. Ilareeet he Member
for Tamworth. 'The speech of the Bight Honourable Ba-
ronet the Member for Pembroke had excited in no small
Whig as
degree Jim bile of
sHaiodn.
of Ablimern, bbeet s( oppositei‘ir.c..
B;.
)buwtouwldhartuner,
might, or had
htaeinhadthaetytehratbeßetilgrheHnohne.
sliaatn3o6n4tiir beansaUTZoasite. The
tenacity to office nn the part of the present Ministry, after their
repeated defeats, had already gone farther than any former pre-
cedent, and they appeared determined, notwithstanding they
had L•at the confidence of that and the other House of Perlia=
still to hang on the strings of the Ladies of the e c
ment, retying ,iii support of the Sovereign to
ment,
areber, office,
and call themselves a Whig Ministry—( Laughter)—although
Under such circumstances, that thpy should have been able tg
they were abantloned the leading Whigs of the country.
usurp the government of the country 'for so many years, :o.'as
only to be accounted for by the weakness of the body-politic.
The present Government had brought the country into a state
of difficulty and danger, from which it was the duty of the

Members on that side of the House to rescue it. What was
the causes of the financial difficulties that had brou2•ht
hind to its present condition ? They were, first, constantly
meddling with other States, by which they had brought the
country into little wars, and thereby drained it of its re-
sources; next, they had abandoned the real duties of a Go-
vernment, and by that means csus-d the present consmerc:al
distress of the country. The course of policy that had been
pursued by this c,iuniry towards Holland and Belgium had 1,-(1
to the setting up of a shadow of a kingdom, and had lost this
country an old and faithful ally. What had been the
result of the interference of this country with Spain?
Why, the setting up ...o£. a military despotism.
The non-success of the Legion in that country- was-
not attributable to the Gallant Officer who commanded it,
but to the Noble Lord the Secretary of State for Foreign
Affairs. What had been the policy of this country with re-
gard to France ? hat country had been carrying on for some
years a most unjust war of aggression on the southern shores
of the Mediterranean. Had the Noble Lord taken
any steps to put an end to the war France was carrying on
against the Moors and the Arabs ? If he had not, then the
Noble Lord had not done his duty. But the Noble Lord might
say that the war was a source of weakness to France. If he
did so, he had altogether forgotten the cause of humanity.
He would say that the war which was now being carried on by
France in Num idia was as bad as that of the former Spaniards
in Spanish America, or as that now carried on by the Ame-
ricans, so much to their shame, against the Aboriginal tubes.
He knew very well that wherever our army or our navy was
sent they would reap fresh glories ; butthat was no recommen-
dation to the policy of the Noble Lord, whose delay in nego-
tiations had been the cause of war between this country and
France hanging tremblingly in the balance for many months.
Neither would what we had done in Syria and Egypt
prove of any service either to the Egytian ruler
or to the Turkish Government. The annexation of
the Syrian provinces to the Turkish empire would add
to her no elements of strength to resist Russia. Not to dwell
longer on foreign policy, he would make a present of the final
settlement of the Boundary question, and congratulate him
upon his successful endeavours to procure the release of Mr.
M'Leod. He would now advert to what had fallen from the
Right Hon. Member for Edinburgh, who said the Government
were determined to carry the law into full effect. He would
ask whether they had done so in regard to the present un-
happy disputes in the Church of Scotland? The people were
now threatened with a loss of the blessings of the Establishment
because of the inefficiency of the Government, or their inability
to carry out the law. if the Lord Advocate had interfered at
an early period and enforced the law, they would have heard
little more of these unhappy disturbances in the Church. He
must say that the conduct of the high Church party in Scot-
land had been—he was going to say, but would not—most
shabby conduct; however, he would contend that the conduct
of the Government with regard to the Scotch Church, if there
was nothing else to go upon, would be sufficient to induce the
Scotch Members to vote in favour of the Right Hon. Baronet's
resolattion. The present Ministry had plunged the country
into great financial distress—they had come to a dead stand,
and they brought down to the House a set of projects—
he could not call it a regular Budget—calculated
to create agitation throughout the country, to set one
interest against another, and to distract attention from
the real cause of those evils which they had raised and
were now afraid to face.—(Hear, hear.) He wished ' to
ask the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer
did be mean to go on with his Budget respecting the timber
duties and the corn duties. when he knew that he had no chance
of carrying them, and was only forcing Hon. Members to re-
main there during the dog-days of June ? It was said that the
Corn-laws was a landlords' question, but the Government
would find that it was not the landlords alone they would
have to contend against. In Scotland most of the land was let
upon lease, and these leases were generally for nineteen
years. The tenants, relying en the faith of their leases,
in most cases laid out their own capital in improvements and
buildings ; and he asked the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, who he believed to be as humane as most Chan-
cellors of the Exchequer, whether there would not be some
injustice in sacrificing the capital of that valuable and useful
class of men, the farmers of Scotland? On these grounds he
should give his support to the motion of the Right Hon.
Baronet.

Sir W. SOMERVILLE would not attempt to follow the
Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down in his extraordinary
flights of imagination ; but he should claim the indulgence of
the House while he shortly stated the grounds upon which
he should vote against the resolution of the Right Hon. Baronet.
He thought that there were no representatives in that House
more deeply interested in the issue of the present motion than
those of that portion of the United Empire of which he was
one of the representatives. With them it was a question, he
had almost said of life and death, and he should therefore in
the few remarks with which he would trouble the House not
touch upon the constitutional part of the question, which had
already been treated of by gentlemen whose legal knowledge
enabled them to do so far better than he could. He would
then merely speak to the practical part of the question,
which related both to the past and present Government
of the Empire.—( Hear, hear.) They might with-
draw their confidence from the Gove-nment for the part
they had acted, or in anticipation of the course they were
likely to pursue ; but in the present state of parties, and the
state in which parties were likely to be for some time to come,
there was no Government which would not be obliged to mo-
dify many of their measures. Irish questions were now
made the stalking-horse of the party to which he (Sir W.
Somerville) belonged—continued allusion was in particular
made in the course of the present and other debates to the ap-
propriation clause in the Irish Tithe Bill. If Hon. Members
on the other side of the House were aware of the dangerous
state in which that country was at present, they would not be
continually taunting and twitting the supporters of Ministers.
The Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire charged
Ministers with the exciting the hopes of the people
without any intention of realizing those hopes. The Noble
Lord should be the last to hold that language. It was that
Noble Lord who first proposed the appropriation principle,
When the minds of the people were raised to the utmost on the
subject, the Noble Lord as a member of the then Govern-
ment, declared he would extinguish tithes altogether, and in a
few days afterwards he came down and said that by extinction
of tithes he did not mean extinction of tithes, but something
else. Did the Noble Lord mean after that to taunt the
Government with exciting the hopes and expectations of the
people.—(Ministerial cheers.) Then there was the Noble
Lord's Bill for amending the Registration of Voters in Ireland,
which would render all government in that country impos-
sible. If the choice were given to him (Sir William
Sommerville) between the adoption of that Bill, and
having no representative system at all ' in Ireland, he
I should prefer the latter, for under it they might have some
chance of fair treatment, but under the Bill of the Noble
Lord, the old ascendancy would be re-established ; and, if so,
the Noble Lord would be the first to be frightened by the
monster of his own creation, and shrink from the
evils which he had called into existence.—( Hear, hear.)
The Noble Lord the Member for Lancashire said the corn
grown in Ireland was so much worse than that imported by
the duty imposed. The meaning of that was, that Irish csrn
was to be protected and brought into this country because it was
bad. He believed the introduction of foreign corn would have
the effect of doing away with the slovenly system of farming
that at present prevailed in Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) He knew
that on this question, as an Irish Member, he stood alone.—
(Hear, hear)—but if this were so, his opinions were not
adopted for the occasion.—( Hear, hear.) He had
eceived letters on the subject from friends in Ireland,
inquiring if he was mad? and perhaps Hon. Gentlemen op-
posite might think, not withltit reason.—( Hear, hear, and
laughter.) Nevertheless, these were his deliberate opinions.
He had always opposed the policy of the Right Hon. Baronet
towards Ireland, and he was surprised to hear the Noble Lord
(Lord Stanley), who was formerly so strong. a Whig, the
other day pluming himself upon his success in obstructing
Irish legislation, and in adding a few pounds to the amount of
the franchise.—( Hear, hear.) How could he have confidence
in such men ? How could he have confidence in men who
joined in the " No Popery" cry when one or two Catholics
were appointed to civil offices? How could he have confidence
in the government of Ireland by men actuated by such a spirit,
and professing such principles? For these reasons he must op..
pose the resolution. He believed the measures proposed by
the Government would succeed, for they were founded in jus-
stice. As to the Corn-laws, he should he a loser by the
change ; but that would be nothing, and he should not, on
that account, oppose a Government who had had the boldness
to bring forward a measure which they and he believed would
be for the benefit of the country.--( Hear, hear. )
Captain HAMILTON said he could not understand what
the Hon. Gentleman (Sir W. Somerville) meant when e said
that low prices would not affect the wages of the agricultural
labourer, neither could the people of England understand it.
The people of England knew the true state of the case. The
House had decided by its late vote that the Governme t did
not possess their confidence. The people now read the speeches
of Hon. Gentlemen on the Conservative aide, as well as those
of Hon. Gentlemen opposite, and the real nature of the pre-
sent discussion could not escape them. The Noble Lord the
Member for Lincolnshire had expressed his determination to vote
on that occasion with the Government, notwithstanding
the deep interest which his constituents felt in the
maintenance of the present Corn- laws. The time, however,
would come when they should all appear before their consti-
tuents; and for his part he should say that the sooner an (less.
tion came the better. —( Hear, hear, on the Ministerial henches. )
I-lon. Gentlemen opposite cheered him, but he would venture
to say that the result of the new e'ections would bring about
an alteration in their feelings.—(l-sear, hear.) With regard
to a repeal of the Corn-laws he did not think it could possible
benefit the working classes, inasmuch as if it lowered the price
of food it would also lower the amount of wages. The present
a,sitat ion might serve a party purpose, but it could not promote
the interests of any class in the community.
Mr. MUNTZ did not think that the only question before
the House was whether the Government had the confidence
of the House or not. There was another question, namely,
whether Hon. Gentlemen opposite had the confidence of the
House. Now they certainly had not his (Mr. Muntz's) confi-
dence. He acknowledged that the Ministry did not possess
much of public confidence— (Hear, from the Opposition
benches)—but the reason of that was that they imitated but
too closely the conduct of Hon. Gentlemen opposite.--( Hear. )
He had heard no declaration of principle from the Right Hon.
Baronet or any Member of his party, either as to the mone-
tary or commmercial affairs of the country, which could induce
him to vote with them ; and he could not bring himself to re-
move olio set of flies which had settled upon him for the pur-
pose of bringing on another still more troublesome.—( Hear. )
Colonel CON OLLY could not understand how it could have
been possible for the Right lion. Baronet the Member for
Tamworth, having characterised the Budget in the terms he
had done, and having demonstrated the financial incapacity of
Ministers, to refrain from bringing forward thepresent motion.
The Ministers had got the county into difficulties, and con-
fessed they could not get it out of them. How could any con.
fidence be placed in them ? And then because the Right Hon.
Baronet refused to state his intentions until he was in full
possession of the requisite information, the Gentlemen opposite
arrogated to themselves the prerogative of the Crown, and
said that he should not be Minister. He believed the present
Ministers to he destitute of all principle. They had given up
their appropriation clause, they had given up their colonial policy,
they had, with Conservative principles on their lips, brought for-
ward a measure dictated by the agitators of Ireland. How
could any Confidence he pieced in men whose actions were so
eontradsetmiy to their words ? They were not, at least the
Present Ministry were not, entitled to any credit for the abo-
lition of slavery, and they attempted to interfere with that
great experiment by bringing forward a miserahle, dilapidated
measure of finance, the good to vise front which was doubt-
ful, the evil certain; They had thrown every branch
of our mpufactuets over, simply because they had been
beaten in the late divisions. They were setting fire to
athpeprepnrteierneissheisplb:nodrew:heey were ejected. They were prac-
tising that agitation to which they had served a seven years'
the nllperes-the manufacturer 3nate'gationssteithteh elalno,wtoewrnoerrd—erbys againstaslwr-
sions as calumnious and gross as had ever been uttered. What se-
curity had they that the Ballot, Universal Suffrage, and every
thing might not be granted? The Ministers had administered
the affairs of the country in ass execrable manner.—(Cheers
and langhter.) They had got the country into a state of in-
solvency, 4$ regarded the year, and the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer had completely demonstrated his incapacity. What
private gentleman would continue in his service a steward who
had acted as the Ministers had done ? Their incompetency had
been fully demonstrated, and their imediate ejectment vaane,.
Mr, SliftLhitehhenwams
cem7y,
oavgerde agreed etoa.dj°llrnme-n-t"
to-morrow, w
The Copyhold and Customary Tenure Bill was read a third
time and Passed. • - of the debate till

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER brought up
the Report on the Sugar Duties NI
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned at a Quarter-past Twelve.