The Sun.
London, England, 1841-06-05 00:00:00

E VEN ING EDITION

sources of the country upon bad principles, and nitif
the utmost confus'on and waste, and which ,
or-
teen colonies--but it was co fessed that theie.a,e troughac.iot
in the discomfiture of the Que.( n's forces and the loss
ward was one totally different and fou ided to%
principles; but then the Hight Ilcuourable Gentlemana_aa
aware that this was a ease in which a contest was anait!t._..";
by a Minister of the 'Crown against a majority of the Hour
in which during a considerable period of time a nnal"
the House declared that the (Minister of the Crown was
e„
worthy ref their confidence. Yet this Minister contisVt
in
office. Now with regard to the general principle on WI -noti,
much had been said in the course of the discussion, he at , f
assented to it, arid he certainly did rot hear the PresideaL..
the Board of Control say anything different. The Right r;
Gentleman said that the case of Mr. Pitt, in flood
was a peculiar case, because in that case Mr. Fox come sin
of the manner in which the Administration came into Ts_
that Administration having been charged with secret I,llo'lle
d thir-
ence, and that the Ministry was created in consequence "au,
destruction of the former Administration by that secret inumit
ence. Now that, so far as it went, was a true statement(
a'ro
at that time there was another question in dispute betf!,a
Mr. Fox and Mr. Pitt, namely, the great question of the I;ii
Bill. Mr. Fox maintained that he had formed his do.
on the true principles of the Constitution, while Mr. Pitt ria
Glared
or
ared that it would establish a fourth estate and be utte
destructive oft hat Constitution. Now was it on that Or: or
that it depended whether Mr. Pitt should remain in Zeited
not? Alter Mr. Pitt proposed his measure he was di
on the question for going into Committee by a majorityßill,
House. But it was held that% the loss of the In to
though the great measure of Mr. Pitt's admilistriar,
was not sufficient ground for his resigning office ; did
ng
Fox deny that doctrine ? No. Mr, Fox, so far from off" alt,
it, affirmed a doctrine exactly opposite. —( Loud cheers.) 'iv
Pitt remained in office, having lost his Bill, and Mr. Ft's e°the
curved in opinion that the loss of that Bill was no reason'," the
resignation of office by Mr. Pitt. Yet they hauesolie
Vice-President of the Pitt Club proposin this 1. the
tion ; and a Gentleman who said he maintained,
principles of Mr. Fox supporting it.—( Loud cbeern'etia
That was a doctrine which both of these Statesmen :,
have altogether repudiated if they had heard it propounded' the
(Hear, hear.) But the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, of
Member for Exeter, said it was quite true that in the ant_
%a,ao
the loss of Mr. Pitt's Fortification Bill, and again, in the t
of 'Lord Liverpool's Property. tax, those Ministers Werelipt
called upon to resign, although they had failed in their att vo 0
to carry these measures, merely because there was evidently 4
other Ministry at the time to succeed them. But the presie"te
resolution said nothing of that. The resolution was an ah°o..
resolution, which said that the " continuance of at
nisters in office, under such circumstances, was his
his
variance with the spirit of the Constitution. Now, ' h
as
opinion, the resolutioniought to contain some parenthesis's" 0,,
that appended to the resolution of the Noble Lord the ,
her fir Liverpool on the sugar duties, in which the resolett
ef
was saved by the words " especially when a certain anVenTha
sugar was likely to be introduced into the country- his
Right Hoe. Baronet in a similar way should have added to
proposition, " especially where there are other Gentle-0a
perfectly able and perfectly willing--(Heirs hear, tie
laughter)—to succeed them." He hoped that eo
Right Hon. Baronet, in order to make his resolution nor
with the admission of the Hon. and Learned Member la
Exeter, and with the course of Parliamentary.precedents,%ohesd
prudently amend his resolution in that sense. What herded
stated regarded the general tenure of the resolution as raga fief
the constitutional precedents; and it appeared to biloo,
what he had alleged, and atter the arguments of his Right t -so
Friend, that there could be nothing more clear than ths (sta
far from agreeing with the spirit of the Constitution, therere•
lution itself would affirm an entirely new precedent, a Priseer
dent which, as he would go on to show, would be Ileitr for
vote for that House to adopt, nor would it be an examPfe the
any future Ministry, who regarded the welfare „eta
country, to follow.—( Hear, hear. ) Now, let `lto,
consider what had been the course of the Con° is
tion of late years ; because he supposed there
aa.,
no one who would not admit that a change of eircumstanee'ot
that a different course of legislation had of late taken lial'the
and that although the form of the Constitution remaineuroo,
same, yet the mode in which it was to be carriel t hat
from time to time. Now, if the House would corsider el ho
had been the course of public affairs in the last century'
of a
thought they would see that that which was then required
eee
Ministry supposed a very different task, and, at the 97,ea
time, a much less difficult one than that which was itnrk to
upon any Ministry at the present day. If they looked hact eta
the course of that debate, they would find that it was n°bed
course of their Administration they had been discussing--" of
not been a charge of crippling the resources of the coann:),";ola
having involved the country in any dangerous or unnecessar,,d not
or having exposed it to an insurrection which they CO
suppress, but it had been that certain measures brought
Parliament for its approval had not met with the suPP" the
the House. Now if they looked back to the history ed
greatest statesmen of this country—of those who had alUOto.
most power and influence, and whose names were most
the
spected and looked up to as illustrated by their genius,f(ir
direction of affairs—if they looked to the history of Sir
if the/
Walpole, of Lord Chatham, of Mr. Pitt, and Mr. Fox---- .hat
looked to the careers of these great men, and examined who
were the legislative measures which they had recommenyery
and carried through Parliament, they would have a they
meagre return indeed.—( Hear, hear.) It was not that e,
did not answer all that was required of them in their Inniect
it ;vas not that they were not fully equal to the cidn"sea,
of affairs according to the different principles they p rOPS
that
but that the usage of the Constitution did not then require, sots
those at the head of the Administration should brim, fors
ward legislative measures, and for the most part during the la
century it even required that they should take a uniPerni Of
either in supporting or rejecting legislative measures- the
late years, however, and especially since the passing m
f ales
Reform Act, the country and the Constitution required a:j,e
ferent course of conduct. What with the necesaity for legs
tion—what with the wish of carrying Bills through that Hu:4e
on the part of individual Members—what with the g""tita:i
changes which were so long delayed until the passing it'
Reform Act, and which were required very suddenllly
y an'
great number—for all these diflerent reasons, it was generat
and usually expected that the Members of the Governinee,
should bring forward Bills, upon subjects exciting public atatele
on, and that they should do their best to forward those 0,,
through Parliament. But while that was the case, he ine
say that he did not think that they could at the same tar/ere:l'
quire that general and uniform support from the alou'ea,a
Commons which had been refused for Ministers, who ''',
merely to defend their administrative acts. When a afinistt";
in possession of all the necessary information, stated his rseo
to the House of Commons, the House should either give 3,4
their confidence, or deprive him of it in such a manner, 'll4
by such tokens, that he could not be mistaken when lie
lost it. But with respect to measures relating to legislait°%-
with respect to measures, for instance, relating to tithe', rot
lating to the criminal law or a Poor-law—with respect ft:o, -
or any of these subjects, and others of a similar kind, the 3' ao.;
bers of the House might support a Ministry to a certainii
gree, but he did not think that they would everatei
that entire confidence which might be given.;
administrative measures. Therefore, if thea, ;yes'
upon the one hand that new duties had been imps aa“,nait'
Ministers, they must on the other hand make (11" „ase;
allowance fur the effects of discussion and of ileliberata°aelf
first, on the part of Members, and then on the part of '7a
constituency. As the Right Hon. Baronet had brought •
ward this motion, founded entirely upon the failure of l'o'bar
lative lative measures, he should ask the Right Hon. Baronet
be
were the measures passed during his administration? l'ff-00-
( Lord John Russell) knew of none, and as the Bit -hese
Gentleman the Member for Pembroke had referred to these
measures in a spirit of unusual virulence, he should al°
some allusion to the measures adopted, and the defeat''s.'oa
tained, while they were both Members of an Adrnioistrs%,
which,whatever else might be said of it, did not want a very e°''ae
derable majority during a great:part of as career in that House-a:01,
meant the Admiaistration of which Earl Grey
with Lord Althorp for its leader in that House. With resPietc.'abt
the first of those Administrations, that with which the ",i'lol
Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tarnworth, was connecte"'a a
should observe that. when he (Lord John Russell) prolliate
Repeal of the Test and Corporation Acts, the Righi eti
Gentlemen opposed the motion, which, however, was cal ajar
by a majority of upwards of 40.—( Hear, hear.) But dal. say
one say that the Right Hon. Baronet should resign
consequence cf that, or did the Right Hon. Baronet °me)i)e,
puraose to do so? Far from it. 'the Right Hon. (4.'bute
was at the head,
man expressed, on the contrary, his willingness to emit° ps'
to the best of his power to carry the measure into effect- stop
the discomfiture of the Right Hon. Gentleman did net all,
there, because, when the measure was next brought ferW Old
the Right Hon. Gentleman declared that he looked ueeli-
act as founded on bigotry, intoiera, ce, or the relic of times 01;d,
gious persecution, and as one which should therefore be rePee
On that question the Right Hon. Gentleman had been °Piaua, s 4
to him (Lord J. Russell). Ile did not divide, but he let'ioo'
House in the possession of himself, an humble individual -010
her ; and when the vote had been carried against the_A bred
Hon. Baronet in his absence, his excuse was that he na",,,,roa
out of the House to take some refreshment—(Cheeo/ are'
that hal taken place under a strong Adininistratol
(Cheers)—arid not a weak or an imbecile one.—( Cheer!, ear'.
laughter.) What hail been the great measure of the nea"fiaca
Now, it had so happened that in the year 1627 the Rigillatotos,ls
Baronet had spoken on the subject of the relief of the Lilt&
Catholics from the disabilities under which they then
ialsn; ad'
and he had then stated that such a measure was one
mitted of no doubt, a compromise, because it was incoroP- 30"
with the maintenance of the Constitution, and .the welt 3rc tilt'
safety of the Church.—( Hear, hear.) :Yes, • I t. 1,0
ltigt Honourable Baronet had brought fotaaar" fitly
very measure, stating, at the same time, met
and candidly, that it was the measre of his ornie'si
not his own —(Cheers)—and the only reason lie hail aa a;1 be',
passing that measure at that time, which had not e:o'f;eaao'"
fore, was, that there existed large bodies cf persons lanita itte:
caugregated together in Ireland, and that be threats ate
traces those bodies had controlled the Administration, et,: tesi
the Duke of Wellington was the head, a measure sat ic"
themselves had previously declared to be incompatible oee
the welfare and safety of the Church, and with the inainreik'll
of the Constitution—(Loud cheers)--and all that that'
place under a strong Government. On that measure t''''artsrl
Government bad-been opposed by halt. their usual 'ter, t at,
in a manner—and opposed in a manner the most %iricjitawr-;
acrimonious—(Cheers)—and yet they had obtained
majorities, from the attendance and support given to tiIL
the Opposition during the whole time.—( Loud cheer,. /
that a circumstance altogether new ? The „001
Lord who had just sat down had not then' •
of the contemptible state to which an Adrein''', th,';
had been reduced, he had not expressed Isis amazeinet,t,',".ipirati
conduct, or complained of their acting contrary.to
of the Constitution ; and yet such were the accusal 100 "'url
against the present Administration, because on some fir Os
of infinitely less importance they had done ssecasiona;;39.a".
which had been done by the Right Hon. Baronet in ;
(Loud cheers.) Then came the Administration °La ha%,
Lord Grey was the head. One of the first things ".","„
occurred to that Administration had been their defe'laalloilai
proposition for an alteration in the timber duties by 311 i"7
of -16 ; other measures respecting the budget had beeitijaaet'o,"
drawn by that Administration. In the next y
that Administration had an overwhelming ntad;',a‘t f"„'t,
that House, the party who were now 'bringaabolet
ward the present motion did not in that 111,1
amount to more than from 120 to 140, yet
Parliament the Ministry were more than once dt"en tailaa-
( Cheers. ) Qn the question of the malt tax, for '",-1:01 ~
after being dated on a division, Lad Althorp'had aeo, ort
House to rescind that resolution and on that oee,a':8.( ,eO„5
Right Hun. Baronet the Member for Tama-mall 3 tr
fairly and handsomely come down to the House to 53Prk,*.
Ministry, and had lent the authority of his name to
House to rescind that resolution.—(Cheers.) But ait,
enlel
Hon. Baronet the Member for Pembroke had net' 'sr aloft
surprise—(Cheers)—the Noble Lord the Meinbes Ie t, and
Lancashire had net then been 'struck with ,zeocn
neither of them had then expressed their or'ation tha
generosity had never before been seen. —0 ,oOd cheer,sl";,ifase'r
that was not the only instance. The lv.oble Lord au
re _as
(Lord J. Russell) 1
of the opposition tail been pasties to another .aqe:(,l4l
which had been materist.l.y Inadified in sent-Wed,
forward the ti' arch Temporalities Bill, the Noble ation
It had met with. In Load ',hat
a he the
'tight on jest grounds, laid down the prolloaes,
the amount realised by the commutation of Church it:valve
not the property of the church, but of the State'" the °t
red
But whets they found the Bill was not likely to the
House of Parliament, if it contained such a larn alt
while, moreover, it met in that House great olaraave it '
Noble Lord proposed to withdraw the clause. he b