The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-09 00:00:00

41)444
(pits
i.r-rat'll Act had also worked well in general. He was
'Winced that the Irish landlords would show, if any
wales,,e434r.°es v las proposed, that they were not the selfish body they
as ass Cpr esented to be. He was as much opposed t, repeal
was, body could be—but whatever the Iri!1 landlords were,
An, id, At House which had made that.—(Hear, hear.
Ire land would now be in b. very different position, had it
eee7ll. for a continued course of bad legislation.
that! AL WINSTON BARRON observed, that despite all
d,, os d been said, the landlords and poor-law guardians had
ti:e.ti lair duty further than might have been expected, under
the."' stxmstances. The workhouses had been overloaded to
had" Ter of the inmates, every man, woman and child who
ll plied far admission had been admitted, and it was dis-
rou it for men who knew nothing of the country to bring
f01...et,1 the mendac;:Ous charges which had been brought
:tr! I in that House against the Irish landlords
law
e boards of guardians, who had given contrary
tsiba* out=door relief, and had trusted to that House
Licpcseetst nerillifhyimthiefm ;or their conduct after, what would the
'rte told them that the resolution which had
g7di a brained to them as a resolution of the board of
sesse in' was a report from the John Bull newspaper, an ob
t. ottdon
.ewspaper, which had no reporter present at the
NonTheyr claimed as a right, so long as they remained a
there :he British empire, the privilege of coming
the Er•lat. ,t. se joint representatives of s. portion of
hello in so people, and ask the House to assist
hots, ►this extraordinary, emergency. He told the
aoit,it w their duty to respd to the call and
Ireland ass fit were in Yorkshire or Scotland. The
y4T3'4, Exc isequer ought to come to the relief of the distress ;
gritiltiqv that it was admitted that Ireland was a portion of the
amp ire, let him not hear of taunts of English capital
sad
English liberality. Did nut Ireland pay taxes? Did it
sot
st; Ps.Y Exc' kte and Custona's duties more than any other king-
Wtef the s ame wealth red extent in the empire ? But if
ay- were not to apply to the British Parliament,
whowhomc ould they apply ? But if application be
serased wool d not Ireland have a right to say, " let us try and
,ow
intNe for o urselves." Let him hear no more then of these
is!Os upon 1 reland. The Irish landlords had done their duty
most e xemplary manner, but there might be exceptions,
Two names b ad been mentioned. One was that of the Earl of
eel; and it was said that nobleman had not paid the pooc-
hes,'
Now, ,this rumour arose from the baneful middleman
„LIM, for, in point of fact, at the present mo-
-717t Lord Lucan was maintaining two workhouses
efti:s °wrt ex pense. He trusted that he should hear no more
Ea
taurit s and insinuations. They were barring the door
to
I7table4flish chstrity, acid the result would be that the great and
eb
td with it len-
e°!?Ple this country would hesitate to come for-
LI: resit was pr general liberality, if they were told that the
+winced by the neglect of the landlords.—(Hear,
beiestireetionsG, At mischief had been caused out of doors by these
r nom and he trusted after that night the House would
•ore est them.
*0" JOAN RUSSELL said they were now proposing
tu_si into Committee, for the purpose of considering
voiotres ftir relieving the distress of tho Irish people,
In a manner w hich, in the opinion of the Government, was
natter calcu Cat end to effect that object than the plans now in
°peration. __(H tear, hear.) Now, he did hope the House would
;est entirely I,srget circumstances, and waste time upon sub-
, stn which es mid be hereafter more opportunely discussed.—
IkLoad cheers. ) If, in the opinion of the Committee, the Bill
'etas the best c :alcalated to promote the immediate object they
bad in view, these surely it would be a great adyantage to
stable Perlis merit to pass it without waiting to discuss points
which, must again, be re-opened.—(Hear, hear, and cheers. )
Ile should b. t glad not to say one more word
upon the stibjec. : of Irish landlordism, but his Hon. Friend,
.rho had just sat down, not satisfied with defending Irish land-
tends, thought fi, : to attack gentlemen who were, and certainly
cut to he, dear t. him, namely, his constituents.—( Hear, and
slighter.) The Hon. Gentleman was pleased to state that it
Vas owing to tl se monied interests, or some trisking system
connected with t hem, that gave rise to certain taunting insin-
nations connecte I with the Irish landlords ; now he could not
Pretend to say whether it was or not, but this he could
bed his Honou,rable Friend, that about a month ago.
some dozen or so of gentlemen who were principally con-
flicted with the • monied interest of the city of London, who
!id no property i is Ireland, and perhaps did not wish to have
,
F.Y- (A laugh)- -nor in any way connected with Ireland, met
or the purpose o f raisirsg a subscription in aid of the Irish
teople, They srebscr.ibed a very large sum indeed—some of
:ern to the eaten t of a 1,0001. each, but they were net satis-
fied with doing th ys, but, though occupied as they were from
morning, until fou r o'clock in the afternoon, they met shortly
!"erthat hour for the purpose of receiving subscriptions,
rOnducting a co trespondence, and distributing the funds, in a
canner which they considered to be most useful to the Irish
traisleh. 7(C. je,ers.)
With regard to the duties of the
Prsblic, upon which the Hon. Gentleman had laid
so
1/0111,,tte? stress, he begged to call to the recollection of the
• "dentlem.an, that whether the sum had been rightly
sl4;tited or not, or whether that Act which authorised its
m 4,4% talon was wise or not, or whether it had been properly
Vninistered or not, there was this fact before them, that
:ithin the last month not less than a million of money had
rue out of the )imperial Exchequer for the purpose of alles
is Irish diistress.—(Cheers.) In the course of the
PLL_."ent session of Parliament much discussion had
"clt place on the subject of Ireland, and during the
v."
Ca''s of that discussion he had not heard any one deny
t the money had been extravagantly or improperly
Zated, considering the great calamity wich visited
the sister kingdoni.—(Cheers.) That calamity, h
it was true,
Reis unprecedented, and when it should be shown that for the
Pose of mitigating the distress nnprecedently large sums of
',Loney had been voted by the British Parliament, no one
'Auld possibly have reason to complain *1 a want of sympathy
on the part of the people of England, or the Government.—
(Cheers.) He admitted that no large amount of blame could
he thrown on • the Irish landlords, considering the difficulty
they had bad to contend with, but still leaving that matter out
the question, lie thought the best example they could
Follow was to go immediately into Committee, and leave that
matter for discussion when the other questions came before the
llouse.—( Hear, hear. )
Mr. STEWAR.T raid, that notwithstanding what had fallen
nomthe Noble Lord, it would be disgraceful to Ireland if
Fish Members were to sit still and hear Irish landlords at-
tacked in the manner they have been. They have done all
I,lleY could to relieve the distresses of the people, and he hoped
England would tre tat the taunts thrown out with the contempt
they deserved.
Mr. SHARM AN CRAWFORD was sorry to detain the
house, but there were some observations which had been made
in the course of the debate which rendered it necessary he
Iheuld trouble diet House for a few moments. It had been
slid that Ireland could not afford to pay the rates ;
be denied it, and while he called upon England to assist Ire-
land in her presets t emergencies, the last shilling he possessed
should be responsible for the loans this country might advance.
Hear, hear.) The distress of Ireland had been occasioned
",7 a defective lasadllord and tenantcy law, and he hoped to see the
°57 when the rates would be divided between the landlord and
the tenant, and a jotrisdiction given to the Court of Exchequer
10 the shape of a power to appoint, and receive, and to enforce
Payment from the. former.
Lord BERNARD wished to pay a just and merited compli-
ant_ent to the conduct of Sir W. Beecher, whose conduct had
rill so grossly inspugned by Hon. Members. He had had the
"most serious difficulties to contend with, and had acted through-
!ct with the utmost good judgment, and with the greatest abi-
inks.
The distreso of Ireland was not confined to the rural
districts ; suffering and distress of the most serious nature
ezisted in the county of Cork, the second city of Ireland.
Mr. RICE thought that the people of England would re-
quire and justly so, a proper security for the re-payment of the
soma advanced to Ireland. He did not wish to see any
aspersions thrown upon the. Irish landlords. What he wished
to see thrown upon them. was the duty of supporting the
Poverty of the country. The greatest credit was due to the
Government for proposing such a measure as the present cal-
culated as it was to afkord relief to the people of Ireland.
Mr. JOHN 0* liRIiEN was quite surprised to hear such
Charges as had been made against Captain Wynne or any
other officer of the body. He was present at the meeting re-
ferred to, and he war sure that nothing had passed there to
justify such a charge; and he wished it was in his power to
speak of the conduct; of the other officers in the same terms as
that of. Captain Wyi sne.
The House then a rent into Committee on the Bill.
After a few words from Mr. STAFFORD O'Baren, and the
eltAwear.eon of th .e EXCHEQUER, the purport of which was
inaudible in the gall cry:*
Colonel CONNO LLY said that in his opinion it would be
this
to be quite it apracticable to carry out his provision of
Luis clause under th. e control of boards of guardians, especially
when the great exte at of some of the electoral districts was
considered.
Mr. F. FRENCH' thought the most advisable course would
be to allow the Govei rnmont to take their own course, and agree
It once to this clause e.
Mr. ROSS feared. that some confusion would hereafter rise
between the different anions of the country and the electoral
districts, the effect of 'which would be found to be to throw
unjustly the whole pau per population of the electoral districts
into one union.
Mr. WILLIAMS t bought that better security would be
:afforded for the repays neat of the advances if the whole extent
of the unions were tic, be held liable, and he hoped that the
Government would s .dbere to the principle contained in the
clause before the co' mmittee. It was but fair to the people of
England that the be st security should be taken for the repay-
loont of the advances i about to be made. He made no objection
to assist Ireland. 'I be Government would, however, be held
responsible by the pet "le of England for the measures they had
now introduced.
Mr. M, ()TERM AL rose to order. The question before
the House was, the al sportionrnent of the charges between the
'anion and the severs.ls electoral districts.
After a few words I from Mr. WILLIAMS in reply,
Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN thought that the whole di-
rection should be left altogether in She Board of Guardians, and
that the system of rs, tag should.be left. as it is at present. He
Would therefore MO, its that the.clause should be expunged.
Mr. MORE O'F' BatßALlsoPect• the Hon. Member would
not press his amender sent to a sliviliofs; ,The present mode of
rating was utterly in efficient, and if nevi powers were not given
it would be impossit .le to relieve thedietress which so exten-
sively prevailed. I to should therefore support the clause.
Sir DEN HAM 1 .lORREYS supPOrted the clause.
SirJAMES GR AIIAIII would have arisen at an earlier
stage of the discussii on, but for a deep conviction he enter-
tained that no time s hould be lost by introducing any topic
which might lead t o any; discussion, and that the measure
should proceed with se little delay as possible. The principle
(tarried out in the pr.( sent measure was one of very great irn-
Pertance • and he wo tail observe, in conformation of what had
been saidby the Rissl it Honourable Gentleman who had just
sat down that a. great change had been made in
the Irish poor-law in 184.3. He had the honour then to in-
troduce a measure rod sich met with the support of the Irish
Members, and passed the House, in which it was provided,
"that no person who should not have occupied a tenement in
an electoral division for the period of twelve months, or the
greater portion of tl sat time, or should have slept for that
Period, or the greate r part of it, in an electoral division, should
receive relief from th e electoral division. And on the contrary
that all who did nut . occupy tenements for that space of time,
should be relieved :by the union. That was something like a
lof settlement, sr ,d in the latter case, the cost was defrayed
by the union, and n of by the electoral division. It was then
of the last imports ace however to keep those measures which
!ere intended for a temporary purpose separate from those
that were intends d to be permanent. Reserving, therefore,
for further discussi on, whether relief to the able-bodied should
be at the experts a of the union, or the electoral division, he
should say that it was most desirable to confine themselves at
primmest to the t temporary measure. It was not whether
the disaretionary power should be vested in the Poor-law Com-
missioners, or it ► the Poor-law Guardians. This was not
the object of t/ but whether a relief committee sit-
ting is Dublin, ; appointed by the Lord Lieutenant, and corres-
Pending with tl me poor-law guardians, should be vested with
these powers. He feared that by the present system of elec-
toral divisions. it would be found that even in ordinary times
the burden of the poor-rates fell with intolerable pressure opens
the poor terse ti ts, and if so, what must they not expect at res
sent ? Very 1 nany of these districts were nearly overwhelmed,
• and he hear with all the assistance which might be rendered
to them, th ey -would find it difficult to sustain themselves under
.1
pressure. What wro tire present state of Ireland? There
'Were at that no ment 560.000 persons employed upon the pub-
works, which were supported by advances from Govoro-
-I,!eut, that were to be repaid by rates levied from the electoral
care-
fully tricts. It was of the last importance that they should 'tier this matter. These persons were the tillers of
the soil tsr Irelmt Now, it was well known that seed time