The Sun.
London, England, 1823-02-22 00:00:00

PARLIAMENT,

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Fn. 21.
At a few minutes before four the SPEAKER took the Chair.
Colonel WRITE, returned for the County of Dublin, and
several other Members, took the oaths and their seats.
ANNUAL RETURNS.
Papers, containing the Annual accounts, were laid on the
Table by Messengers from the West India Docks and the Car.
natic Claims' Companies. Ordered to be printed.
Returns of the number of prisoners in the County Gaol of
Surrey, and in the King's Bench Prison, were also presented,
and ordered to be printed.
f'
or being the last day for presenting Petitions for leave to
.bring in Private Bills, the House was occupied with business
of that nature till pear five o'clock.

NEW WRIT.
A new Writ was ordered for the Borough of Reigate, the
Honourable John Somers Cox having accepted the Chiltern
Hundreds.

Mr.6ISOCH presented a Petition from- the Owners of land
in Suffolk, complaming of Agricultural distress. Laid on the
table.

Mr. W. WHITMORE presented a petition from the Pecu-
liars, &c. of Bridenorth, against certain parts of the Marriage
Act. Laid on the table.
Mr. CURTEIS presented a petition from certain Bop
Planters in Sussex, complaining of the Hop Duty. The Ho,
anurable Member observed that he thought there was abundance
of means of relief for the present distress of the Agriculturists.
He considered that this class had been sacrificed by the Op-
position at the shrine of popularity, and their interests merged
in the cry of no taxes and cheap bread. Ordered to be
printed.
-A petition was presented from Tewkesbury against the In.
solvented Debtors' Act ; and one from Pomfret, against the
Hawkers and Pedler's Act.—Ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. IL DAVIS presented a petition from Bristol praying for
a total repeal of the Assessed Taxes.—Laid on the table.
Mr. L. KECK presented a petition from the Earl of Stam-
ford, against certain parts of the Marriage Act. —Laid on the
table.
Mr. HUME gave notice of a motion for 'Monday, for a va-
riety of Returns relative to the Assessed Taxes. •
HOP DUTY.
Sir E. KNATCHBULL presented several Petitions from
the Hop Planters of different places in the County of Kent,
complaining of the grievous operation of that tax. The Hon.
Baronet could not allow himself to present all these Petitions
without calling the attention of the House to the situation of
the Petitioners, as participators in the distress which at present
pressed upon all persons connected with the cultivation of the
land. He considered their case entitled so far to the conside-
ration of the House,n that if it did not encounter the opposition
(lithe Chancellor of the Exchequer, he should think it his duty
to move for the appointment of a COVlMittee to take cognizance
of the subject matter of these petitions. Ile hoped the Right
Hon. Gentleman mould acquaint him with his sentiments upon
this proposition.
The 'CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he was
not prepared to give an offhand opnion upon a subject of so
much importance. He would go so far as to say that he did
not see the immediate necessity of appointing a Committee to
!Ill,aquire into the particular Situation of that portion of the Agri.
etcstsoncerned in the cultivation of hops; but he could not
Inintelf to take one course or another upon such a pro.
rat on being made. The Hon. Baronet would leave him an
eri,ortunity of stating his opinion upon his motion for a Corn-
sir Matte.
E.,XNATCHBULL then observed, that if the Right
071..f:iertlerniin did not hold out hope* of relief to this class
,•4 Individuals in his forthcoming speech, he should move for a
uattrrisittee to take these Petitions into consideration.
The Petitions were read, and ordered to be printed.
IfEREPORDSIIIRE PETITION.
Alt • PRICE, in r
dte
to pstaetseentoting the Petition of the County of
cord, be i• Were
0 the House the circumstances which
:ormected with that Petition. It was agreed to at a Meet.
4k", rjolarly convened of the freemen of the County which
.evenfatetHrlg.h4 might fairly
say originated with persons who had
omen to gVe their unlimited support to Govern.
The were induced to set on foot a Petition out of re-
-141. theythdiStress which every where prevailed, and pressed
bat., fire industry of the country. A Petition had been pre-
it ~,f different nature from that which. he then held
*1147 I_o4 but for reasons which obtained weight from
*ithd,uuturred after the opening of the Meeting, at was
ghat nand there remaineil only the Petition of Mr.
of
tpy
tso adrallhat of Mr. Cohbett. was in
enabled de., ,Ir eciare that the Meeting was in favour ,of that
ititetttilltiertthafrlton, 'and he had the sanction of the Lpid;
4 not ot saline this,. and also, that this petition
but t° be
b, b, regarded as the petition of the undersigned only,
ohri,,°,llty at large. 'rills petition, no doubt, contained
isle be tn"',°.Us matter to his .Alajesty's Government ; and it
e sappotaiter of' surprise, that when it was read, not a sin-
e or Goyonment was found to raise his voice

The Petition was then read and ordered to lie on the table.
• . , SUPPLY. NA VV.
On the Motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE-
QUER, the llouse resolved itself into a Committee of
Supply.
Str JOIIN OSBORN rose to move for a vote of men and
money for the sea service of the year. It would be necessary
for him to say but few words; as the estimates of what he was
about to ask a supply for, were already on the table. It was
his jntention to move for a vote of 25,000 seamen, which was
an amount of 4,000 beyond the vote of last year. This ad-
dition he considered necessary on account of the disturbed
state of the world, and particularly of the American Colonies.
—lt was also to be borne in mind that MAO/. for the coast
blockade came into the Navy Estimates for the presCnt year,
being no longer paid by the Treasury. The Honourable
Baronet then moved, " That a grant of 25,000 men for the
sea service, including OA° Royal Marines, be granted to his
Majesty."
Mr. BROUGHAM did not rise to throw any obstacle in the
way of the motion, but rather to express his surprise that no
larger grant had been demanded ,• for, with the view which he
(Mr. Brougham) entertained of the alarming aspect of foreign
affairs, he regretted that the vote of seamen was so limited.—
The House, however, understood, though every man did not,
that this vote slid not bind them to the number of 25,000 men
for the whole year. They knew that within the ensuing twenty-
four hours, whenever the next Committee for Supply sat, this
number might be increased to any amount. Although this was
well understood in that House, it was not elsewhere, and he
should be sorry that time least suspicion should be excited that
this vote bound them down to the limit of 25,000 men for the
year. He wished it tq go final, and that, too, upon the atttho.
rimy of Government, that the instant it should be known that
this number was insufficient, his Majesty's Ministers could
come down to that House and obtain, as he had no doubt they
would, without one observation, and with the entire and una.
nimous consent of the people, whatever they might think pro-
per to demand to support the honour of the Crown, and pre.
serve the peace of Europe.
Mr. Secretary CANNING felt himself called upon to make
his acknowledgments of the accuracy of the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman's notions, and express his full concurrence in what
had just fallen from him. ;Undoubtedly, this vote no more re-
stricted Parliament from Voting more, than it limited the ca-
pacity of this country to furnish a greater number. And, if
occasion should render it necessary to call for an increase of
number, he should have no hesitation in coming down to that
House, and offering them such explanation as would be deemed
adequate to justify the demand. But, having said this, to pre-
vent the possibility of mistake, he was sure the Committee
would pardon Mtn if he paused there to say, that the present
state of things in Europe was one, which they could not debate
in that House at that moment with the prospect of doing more
than hat) been derived from the present discussion, but was
one the discussion of which at that moment might be productive
of much harm. He would only add, that it was as much the
wish RS it was the want of this country, and of Europe, to pre-
serve the peace of the worltt.-that no effort had been left un.
tried on the part of this country to obtain that desirable end.
But it did not enter into the apprehension of those who con.
ducted the affairs of this country... confident as they are in the
unexhatisted state of its resources, and in the strength of the
nation, while Parliament maintained the Integrity of those re.
sources by maintaining public credit, that there would be any
want of means for efficient exertion, if exertion should become
necessary.—(Cheers.)
The Resolution fora grant of 25;000 men was then agreed
to, as were the following grants:—
Seamen's Wages . £783,750
----- Victuals . . . - . 455,000
Wear anti 'rear . . - 243,750
Ordnance - - - - 8050
The House then resumed, and the Report was ordered to be
received on Monday.
FINANCIAL STATEMENT.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQVRR,
the House resolved itself into a Committeeof Wayi and Means.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER; rising to
make his statement on the subject of the financial situation of
the country, said, it' he did not ask of the House any peculiar
indulgence, it was not because be felt he should not want in-
dulgence, but because having voluntarily undertaken the duty
which lie now rose to perform, he was hound to take upos him.
self all the responsibility which might attach to the fulfilment
of that duty.—(Hear, hear, hear !)—But he hoped the Com-
mittee would listen to him with patience And candour—with
patience, because it would be necessary to detain them for a
considerable time—and with candour, on account of the vast
importance to all rho interests of time country, of those details
into which he was about to enter. He deemed it still more ne-
cessary thus tubespeak their attention, as he could not but feel
that he addressed them on the present occasion, under no small
disadvantages, when lie recolfeeted that lie stood in the place
of one whose long experience, many virtues, and unsullied in-
tegrity—( Hear.!)--haul for many years claimed the respect end
esteem of the House..--(hear.)—But he confessed that he
approached time performance of his task with some tie.
{.Tree of confidence—of confidence growing on the great in.
dulgence which be had experienced on all former occasion*,
when it had been his duty to address them on subject's Of
importance to the country..—(Heir, hear, hoar !)—The least
return which be could make for indulgence- weuld ha,- to

There would be a Surplus of e .1.,2,14,9811
The next point to be considered was the mode in 7
which this
Surplus should be dealt with. What he should propose was,
that the larger proportion to the amount of 5,000,000/. should
be applied un the principle recognised hy Parliament to
reduce the Public Debt ; and that the remaining surplus,
exceeding 2,000,0004, should be applied to the. Remission of
Taxes. In doing this the impost; to which he particularly ap-
plied himself were the Assessed Tales. In the course. of
what he had to say, he should point out, the particular mode
in which he proposed that the relief should be apportioned...._
Having now stated to the House the amount of the Revenue
in the last year, and the view which lie took of the Revenu t,
Expenditure, and Surplus of the present, as alit) of the mode in
which he thought of dealing with that Surplus, he had now to
submit to the Committee sech observations us appeared to him
material in the consideration of these important matters. The
first thing to which he should call the recollection of the Com-
mittee was that part of his Majesty's Speech, in which, in re.
ference to the Revenue, the King had stated that the amount
considerably exceeded his OCT/Pa:10On, HO thought he had sue.
ceeded in skewing that, in point of fact the King was justified
in making that statement to his Parliament. Though it ap-.
peered that the actual surplus of the last year did not mnount
(it came within a small fraction of it) quite to 5,000,004,1 t
was very material to consider what the surplus revenue would
have been, if in the last year very important transactions hail
not taken place, which produced in the first instance a dimintt-
don of Revenue, without bringing 4 contemporaneous reduction
of Ekpenditure. The Committee would recollect that the es-
timate for the probable expenditure for IBA had offered a
surplus of 5,208,0004 This calculation was made on the sup-)
position that during the last year the rate of taxation would
remain the same as hi the preceding year. But the Com-
mittee would also bear in mind, that not long utter that
paper was laid before the House by the Noble Lord, then Sc.
tretory of State for Foreign Affairs, to whom he could not
allude without feeling acutely for his loss, but of whom he
could not speak what he felt at that moment, that Nobly Lord
.had subsequently come clown to the Howie, ant stated, that
the attention of the Government had been given, and he flat.
tcred himself with success, which had for it object, on the one
hand, to diminish the expenditure of the couretry, and on the
other, to give Parliament an opportuit of dimiishing the taxes,' lie alluded to the plan of redunciy ng the intenrest On the Five per cent.. stock to Four per cent. Thus plan having
been adopted, the mutual malt tax was taken of, amounting
to 1,414,0001. It was calculated, that the diminished interest
paid by the public, in consequence of the measure which he
had just mentioned, would balance the amount of taxation
thus remitted. But it, wits obvious that the diminution of re,
venue commenced immediately, but the reduction of expense
did not commence with it. The Malt Tex at once ceased, but
the public continued to pay the interest of the Five cents.
in July, as well as in the preceding January; so it was not
till the commencement of the present year that that Savin could
be felt, which was Intended to counterbalance the reduction
of revenue which had taken place. The defalcation in the Re.
venue in consequence of the repeal of a portion of the Malt
Tax, hail amounted to uhout 1000,0001. No corresponding
reduction, as he had . already etated, was effected at the mo-
ment. The total loss sustained in the Revisite by the remis-
tion of tax/; amounted to no less than 1,700,0001, It would
then beeseen, that if no suclereduction of Revenue had taken
place by the repeal of taxes, the surplus of last year, instead
of amounting as it did to nearly :4(810,0001. would; in point of
fact, have exceeded six millions and a half. erhe cemmitee
would therefore see, that he was justified in saying that
his Al,ejesty had stated nothing but what was consistent with
fact, when he deseribed thteexem of Revenue to have been
such as to have considerably surpassed his expectations. He
begged that it might not be sepposed that he felt the slightest
regret at that remission of taxation which had taken place.
Far from it: he considered the measure to have been wtaely
adopted ; and farther, he was prepahel to tulthit the wisdom
of a farther extension of the principle. Tlie next point to
which he should whims himself, was the g•rocntla on which he
tied estimated the produce of the Revenue in the present year.
Under all the circumatances, he eeeeldered that he wits en.
titled to assume, allowing for the expected diminution of re-
ceipts in the present year, by the full operation of'' the reduc-
tions sanctioned by Parliament—allowing fbr all these, it Was
'
his belief and conviction that the Revenue of the present
.year
was likely to eqtud the Revenue of the lest. Ile would take'
the Customs at 10,500,001. During the last year the produce
of the Customs urnounted to 10,862,0001, From this, in the pre-
sent year, an additional reduction was to he made on account
of the repeal of the whole of the Torirotge Duties which till
now had not come into full operation. These had amounted to
150,0001. The TonnageDutiee had ceased front the 15th of July,
They )inch therefore been paid through the first half of the year
18'.12, but nothing was to be calcolated Aom that quarter for
bo,fitk
the present yen. Comidering that they 1)4,1 not continued
through the lest half of 184 he was not bound to allow snareBo,ool. on account of them ; but wishing to keep
the mark, and not to overstate the eases but to offer a within
calculation, he, veould only take the Cuetorns as teena
mil_
lions end a half. The nesitliranch of Revenue to which
he should direct the attention of the. einnrnittee was the
Excise ,• the receipts on ascount of which had aniteinti--d
in the last year to 2741,0504 These had been ra.lueed
by the repeals of the duties on Malt, Leatlivri and Solt. It

was true the redeetion of the duty on Salt did not take place
till the confineneceiment of the present year; but nevertheless
the demand had fallen of in c.onsequenee of its being known
that at that period elle duty was to he reduced,,as parsons na-
turalli declined buying till than thee arrived when the tax was
'to cease, and thus the effect of the repeal lout been partially felt
rn the last year. But notwithstanding this, the total revenue
derived train the Excise had amounted, as he had already
stated, tothe suns of 27,271,6581. .Deductieg front this amount
ail the Lies that might be expected front the full operation of
the measures which had been adopted, he thought himself jus-
tified in' estimating the receipte for the.preeent year, under the
head'of Excise, at 26,60,001. The Stamp Duties he felt jus-
tified in taking at 1i,600,0001. The Post Office he calculated
ivo-uld contribute 1,400,0001. being sootewhet less than the u-
tilel produe of the last year. The Assessed Taxes and Land
.Tax, it wouldlJC seen in the paPers before the House, Amounted
in the lust year to 7,2E1,9691. It would be recollected that in
the course of last year the Window, Tex and Hearth Duty in. Ireland had been given up. Those repeals would now come
Into full operation, and lie should therefore take the Assessed
Taxes and Land TeX at 7,100,0001. Estilnating the produce
of vetriOus saeill blanches of,Revenue, at (hull if he felt justi-
fied in telt iog the probable receipts of the oedituerreeeeinuet for,
the present year at 52,0010001. being the actual amount received
under these branches of revenue which he had enuti rated foe
It Wei true that under all the heads which he had men-
tioneti' the receipts of the last year had exceeded! thoseof any
antecedent year. Hut when he took into consideration- all the eireamistanees of the country,. there was.eVery reason to an-
ticipete, not merely it continuance of the same flourishing He.
,venue, but a progressive increase. When he looked at the
mercantile prosperity—the extending commerce of the coml.
'try, and the various auspicious features of the present pro-
ipects, and especially when he looked to the benefit conferred
0a Commerce generally by getting rltl of the antiquated lumber
of inapplicable laws which had long fettered enterprise, aed
when he bore in mind what he had heard front all those most
conversant with inerevintile offairs on the advantages likely
thence to accrue, he could not help cherishing the hope and the
confident expectation which he had avowed. The adoption of
a more liberal policy on •our part could not but prove other than
beneficial, as while we opened new markets for the commodities
of other 'sentries, we of necessity;caused in them an increased
consumption of 'ours. Recollecting these things, and looking
to the extensive merkets DOW opening to our trade in all parts
of the world, he anticipated a large extension—gradual, per.
haps, bet not the less valuable because gradual, of our cont•
coerce generally. Ile could riot quit tins pito of his subject
without saying he concurred in all the compliments which had
been paid to his Right Hon. Friend and late Colleague (Mr.
Wallace). Nothing afforded him more satisfaction in the conrse
of his political life don to have found himself in otlie:, for the
last ten years with <ueht a t.loileague, who, animated by the,'
most liberal principles, possessed intrepidity enough to support
him where he took up a subject in opposition to esteblished
prejudices, and intrepidity enough to take the lead where this
was necessary for the benefit of the country, or the credit of the
Right Ilan. Gentleman himself.-(llear, hear !)e-ile repeated
it, he felt time hopes juttitied which he kid avowed. lie might
any, while he contemplated the vast field for commercial enter•
prise now open tour merchants--
‘".11 me wide, the unbounded prospect lies before us."
But he had no reason to add, in the words of the same Poet-.
" But rilladews, clouds, and tior',netts rest upon it."
On the contrary, while exulting in the bright dawn which had
burst upon them, they had every reason to look forward to a still
brighter meridian sun.—(Hearlj—lf, turning front this 'View of
our foreign commerce, lie directed his view to our domestic cone
sutuption, he there found what he thought the most unequivocal
demonstration of inereasine proepertty, lie could not con-
template but with the highest satisfaction the augmented
meanie of consumption which were to be remarked In /spite of
the partial distress complained of in particular districts -he
funnel dernonitratiee proofs of the increasing comforts of the
peOple et large. From the returns before the House it ap-
peered that on every urtiele of etmoutnotien there hnd been an'
increase over the average of the three preceding years. • Ile
did not know that it would be worth while to down the Ifouee
by going into minute details, but in a general way lie might
state, that under the heads of Beer, Bricks, Cdl Size,
Giese, Paper, Printed Goods Soap, Stnrch, an es„
Foreign Spirits, Tea, and 'Tobacco; on every ci of theee es-
sential articles, on which the comforts of the people of Eng-
land depended, there was an increase over the average of the
three preceding years. When such was the fact, was it takieg
too sanguine, a view of ottr situation to calculate that the
Revenue in the resent year would be equal to what it
had been in the last? Was lie not justified in eelculation,
under such eiremstances, that the Caverns and Excise would
at least sustain no tihnitintion in the preaetit year ? lie might
aeoitrely rely on these papers alone that the' condition of the
mass of the people was better than it hail formerly been. Bet
let the house look at their actual situation: Let them comes.)
pare it with what they had recently witnessed ie other years.
Where was time distress, the outrage„ the eeditien, which had
heretofore been wltnesied ? What had become of these thhigs ?
They hail vanished. And what appeared in their places ? Or-
der, tranquillity, peace, happiness, and content. Such a
change furnished demonstrative proof of time improvtal aims.
tion of the mann. y. He derived infinite coasolation front
the view, for it satisfied liim, that however the people
might be excited for a time, yet there was at the bottom
something so noble, so patriotic, so attached to the principles
Of the British Government and Constitution, that the pressure
of distress removed, discontent was no more. He exulted in
the altered state of our affairs. None had more lamented the
affliction formerly known then himself, as it huttbeen his pein-
ful duty to 'support measurer of severity which had appeared to
tititairreldiec.—erllreYart,ohearerprte)....ssilt:lnioetitileiraocirrdcersurmwitilniice4lttlit)tinwhaarepptiily oc-
to him
highly gretifying in its nature. It wee not of vast importance
to the country generally, but it was of the highest import-
mice to individual comilitte Ile alluded to the increased
amount of contributhms deposited in the SaVing Banks.--
During the last year a very considerable addition had been
made to the number of contributions, and to the sums deposi-
.ted. lie knew that it was staid many persons placed money
in them who ought not to do sr. Tlais could not be helped,
but if such were the case it did not account far the In-
erease which he had remarked. It could not he denied,
that a very large proportion of the atoms received had:
beeq contributed . by • persons in the humblest walks of
life,. It furnished the most gratifying proof of the good
effects of thiese valuable institutionx, while it clearly matii.
fie* that the comforts of the poor had been largely slug.
Mewed. Theett things, independent of the positive good which
they presente4 in themselves, seenual tee him, naturally and of
necessity, to teed •to the relief of that body wlaeli had been so
much depressed, the Agricultural part of the euunnunity• Ile
had now to offer a few remarks on that part of the Revenue of
the Country which wee diverted from tite Exchequer—he
meant the sums expended in its collection. Ile loolted for-
wordconsiderable diminution of that expeece in future •
but he called on the Cormnittee to hmak at what had ahead;
been done. Ile was sorry that he had not been able to get all
the information on this subject which could be desired ;
but there was a greater difficulty in getting the' accounts
made up thus curly in the year than Gentlemen might ima-
gine. lie would, however, take the• expence Of collect-
ing :the Revenne in the year, 111.31, and compere it with the
expellee Incurred in the antecedent years, and then it would
.be seen that If all had not been done that soine Gentle-
men wished to see accomplialred, that Government had not
been inattentive to the wishes which had been expressed.—
Ile would refer to the collection of the Customs as the great
expellee occurred in their collection. The charge for this tier..
vice had amounted—
It) Vila • . .4:1,327,121
IUI9 . 1,251,991
029 - - 11027,773
1821 1,068.21111
It would thus lie seen that a gradual and progressive reduction
had taken place, as the expeeee of that branch of the collec-
tion !old been reduced from I,:i27,tittel. to I,ofiti,oo9l. Gentle-
men might say, that the redaction ought to have been curled farther. Prima
.fitc-ie this might appear, but at all events it
ought be seen from what had been done, that the reccimmen.
dation given on this subject had not been neglected. Much of
what had been accompliebeti ought to be ascribed to the Coot.
mittee which had at three or tons years ago, of which his
Right Mu. Frie»tl (tile Paymaster) was the head. By that
Cointnittee various reduction)" had been euggested, which the
Government hell at once deserritined on carrying into effect. it
did not by any means follow, Necause all the reductions were
not effected die moment they were suggested, that they were
neglected. In nteny instances it was necessary to wait for the
death or retirement of meritorioutindividuale„ who, lifter long
serviee, could not at, once be &aniseed without cruelty and ,
But as such obstacles were removed, time public

- -
received the benefit of those chenges which could fairly be
eifected.- lie now turned to the Revenue of Ite
hear I)—Mtich had already been donee unit- mere -would be
done. The Government had not been inattentive trielte
port- made by the etYllililiglionen appointed lwe 'years ego.
'l'hough some had ridiculed it and undervalued. its ;throne
ance, its worth was now fully estabfielied by documents
before the riouxe. . Never had. any, ,treily of men evinced a
more determined resolution to pursue-in spite of all obstacles,
with sincerity anti independence, the impOrtant investigation
which they were Hppaiutett'to condtiot. If the merit of their
services could not be untie::, he trusted would also be ad-
mitted that the Government had not been backerard Sup-
porting their recommendations; No sooner had their first Re,
port bee» received, than the Government ..tinnOunced: it to be
their intention to Act upon it, and he for one, had been read.),
to give it his most cordial support. This, he thought, mus:
have the &bet not only of reducing the expenditure, but it
roust go in Somemeasure to put down the imputation directed
against the Goverement (and lie-knew such tut imputation -had
been ainied at Irtinteelf,) that they had no dieliosition to give up
uselese oifides. This imputatian, he, would new take the
berty to say, had been satiefactorily( repelled. • The next topic
to
,irlfulle he should call the attentleti of the Ifetise was that on
which he hati already slightly touched—this pri.iimied•Expene
ditute cn' the present year. Ile had stated to tireCiimmtetee
that the total Expentlitere for 16"23 might be triken at.
.19.052.000/. The items which Composed the sum were fir part
as fol/ows : •
For the Army - e - s 17,302,00 e
For the Navy - - '5;442,000
For the Ordnance ; . 1,380,000
For the Miscellaneous- 1,440,000
Looking hack to the charge of wasteful and profligate expen-
diture which had heretofore been urged against the Govern.,
ment, he must here say that such reproaches did not appear to
hitt; justly or fairly bestowed. It was not enough to say that
an office was useless or an expence unnecessary to make It the
duty of Ministers to abolish the office, or put on end to the ex,
pense. (Jr. such subjecte, thieGoVernment must be allowed to
exercise a discretion of their own ; and nothing tees more tine
just than to sac, that because such recommendetion had not hu-
mediatcly been acted toion, that the Administration was cor-
rupt, and regardless of the public welfare. Such charges, he
knew, all former Governments had been compelled to endure ;
and to similar aesusations the present and all future Govern_
menu must continue to be exposed. But the way to chew the
aninnis of the Government, was not to go into every little de,
tail, but to look at whatethey had dote on a somewhat larger
scale. Let this he done, anti then it' would be seen whether
important reductions had not been, eine:nal. In the first place,
let the Estimates of the present year be compared with those
of the list, and then it -would be found, that tiotivitlistanding
the proposed addition of „Me) men to the Navy, that taking the
Navy; Amy, and Ordnance, those three great sources of Exe
penciiture-together, there was in the present year a positive re-
duetion of experfee of' 470,0001. The diminution, but for the
increase of' the Navy would have exceeded lioo,oool. There
Was a total diminution of Expenditure as compared
With 1821, of - X 1,958,000
1820, of . . • . 2,971,000
181:t, of . 2,156,088
1818, of - c-fA49,000
and, if the present Estimate were compared with the 1 :it int ate
•Of 1817. it would be found that there was still a reduction to
the amount of 1,335,0001. After this, the Government ought
not ta be condemned, because they did not at once comply with
every hint thrown out, but be would confidently appeel to the
Committee if enough lied not been done to prove that they
were sineere in their endeeveurs to effect every practical les
dttetion. Iltit it was to be reettembered that on them devolved
the awful responsibility of protecting the country against ell the
dangers whieletnielit threaten its repose. They weriese) look
to every thing which might happen as well as to those eirettme
etances which were seen on the surface. It was therefore unrust,
because every econtimical euggeStimi was not at once cofindied
With, to. Resume that the Government lutist be profligate' or
corrupt. If he: were to pursue the items of die Expenditure
through the Miscellaneous Services end the Irish Exchequer
Bills, an equally satisfactory view ot diminished ex pence wuuld
lie furnished. lie would not go into these, but. comparieg the
total Estimate of the present pew with the estimate ev hist
year anti of that of 1817: thcre would he foinni n redaciion
as compared. with the former to the amount of 97
and as comixtred with the latter a dintinuthin of expence,
amounting to no less than 1,671,e001. Ile • now static to state
to- the Col-minuet: the mode in which be proposed to tbs. pose of the Surplus Revenue for the present year. Ile took
this at something more than 7,000,0001. Of tills pr
he o-
psieil to apply 15,1S)0,000 to tliminsh the 'Public Debt. k The remainder he wietted given to the public in the remission of
taxer. When a country posSessed a surplite of this kind it was
obvious there were three modem of dispneing of it. The first
was to appropriate the entire amount to the rednetion Of taxes
the second was to give the nrhole to diminish the debt ; the
third mode was to combine the two whith he had mentioned,
end this was the coarse which Ministers had thought it proper
tm take on the present occaeion, and which Ile etillld 1144 but
flatter himself would meet- with the approbation of the Mouse.
To adopt it would be to act on that priecite to which fer many .
years the House had adhered, and lie con dieCovee Melting in
the present situation of the country which ought to' induce de-
parture from it. Ile kneiv of no proposition more alarming
than that which would coUniel the adoption of, thestirst of the,
three modes which he had pointed out,inamelY the iqing of tha
whole surplus to the reduction of taxi', earl tints to abandon
the idea of keeping up a Sinking Fund; 'Taking; such a course
involved the principle of indefinite addition to bdebt ; for who
would Kay that eirettnistances might not arise 'which would pre-
chide the possibility of raising within the year the Supplies ne-
cessary to avert the danger that might menace our Peace. 'Who
would Say that we elinuld never again have occasion for that
powerful invalitable.arrn of defence, public credit, eel:deli was
so essential to our safety, that its destruction would in his opt.
pion, be the*deattuction of the country itself. Yet this pub-
lic credit would be destroyed, it' it were once determined that
no ellen should be made in dine of peace to liquidate the
debt contracted to wry on war. Would not the injurious ef-
fects of such a system speedily be felt in the deteriorated
value of every seems of prdperty ? And what an: increased
expense would he. thrown 'on the country- at any future
time, when a loan should bcceMe necte.sery 1, For who
would /end money for moderate interest to dime. who rte-
ver meant to return the principal. It wet kniewn that the in.
tercet of debt already amounted to snore than lin If the annual
expenditure of the country.. No man felt and regretted:thitf
more than he did. It was because he felt he; esvetelY the in-
evitable weight of this debt preeited down the interest of the
country, that he was disposed to strain every nerve to diminish
it. It ever there was a ante when it teas et:etmisty to support
the public credit of the country, this Wese that trim. When At..
tempts were Made to delude the people into a belief that ria
moms of relieving them existed, lint by doing eel). apart the debt,—but by robbing one set of people to assist °there—
(Hear, hear !)—he repeated it, de courserccominetiebd, 11$ it
appeared to him, was to rob one set of people to assist another ;
and now when such propositions were sent abreeti to decline
apply ingtheir surplus revenue to reduce the debt, would be
to give additional importanee to who were favontable to
such an art of' spoliation. Ile would say that every IttoriSe
winch ought to have influence on the decisions, financial and
political, bound them,. by paying oil'a part of the 'debt to 're-
deem the pledged feith of the country-4 Hear, hear 1) --Out
while he contended for this principle, lie did not say it was ne-
cessary to apply the whole surplue revenue to the retitictiori of
the debt. It was possible for the debt to be too rapidly th-
mlnished.--( Hear, litxtr ! and laughter.)-lle did not mean to
say that there was any great danger of it at present.--(A —Circtunstances, however, *night arise, under which it would
be necessary to limit the progress of the reduction of the debt-
This was his sincere conviction, and though it was said that
the Chancellor of the Exchequer ti r the time being, whoever hit
might be; was always so entuitoured of taxes, that he could
willingly part with none, he would take the liberty to say, that
such was not iris taste. Ile admitttxl, that ire the Present sit"
ation of the country, it eves desirable to give every Possibler' -
lief from taxes. The remission which took place laet year. he
thought wise, and, indeed, he thought rite one could ilentt,t diet
remission of taxation, per ie was very desirable
On this principle it was chat 4 tiOveriglont hard tivtermined
to recommend that repeal of existing th4q"' width itti. w br"
came his duty to propose-
r Here the Right non. Gentlemen appeared very rtntelt ex,.
hausted, front the exertion be had matie, and, its obedienee to
the call of the House. set dawn-fix a few Ininates, lid he ape
pored in Y.olllt, degree recovered.]
In resuming, lit saki, no west exertion of voice wood to
requisite, to the performance or the remitin.l.l
heene now proceeded tO eaddain,. why, in the relief to he afroracti,
hed applied hiniselfpthertpally to the Asseseed Taxele fie

ids intende4 to go ist Aloe length into the reasons-which-dice
Anted this course, but they were so obvious that he thought the
Sousa would pardon him it he declined executing that pur-
-pow. But it was material that he should describe the mode in
wPlich he proposed to give effect to his plan. He proposed
that the reductions should be panty absolute . and partly par-
tial. The Assessed Taxes were classed under four heads—the
Duties on Windows—those on Inhabited Houses—the Duties,
on Horses ; and the fourth (a very small item) the tax on Dogs,
and Armorial Bearings, &c. He proposed to leave the last
class precisely as they were at present; as he saw no sufficient
grounds for reducing them. He thought it right to leave those
of the Assessed Taxes which were least complained of, and he
_sold confess that what he should recommend would have
fee its object to diminish those biirthens which were most
ly felt by that class ••whose 'Mistress had so long heen.
deplered by the House. He wished to afford the ,lantkal in-
terest every possible relief.' lk therefore was of opinion'
that the Inhabited House Tax might remain, and he propoeed.
to remit no portion of that. With respect to the other classes,
they comprehended a variety of small items, which in their
'operation pressed exceedingly harshen individuals--were--werein the
collectiareintolerably vexatious, constantly giving occasion to
eternal surcharges, which doubled the inconvenience to be en-
dured, both to those who paid them and to those by whom they
were collected. He should therefore propose the absolute re-
-peal of many of these smaller items which he should now take
the liberty to state to the Holies.. The first item to which he
should ellude applied to persons under the head of Male .Ser.
vanes, occasionally employed in Trade or Agriculture. It was
obvious that the duties in question were excessively embarrass-
ing and led to endless disputes, which made the Assessed
Taxes more unpalatable (he would not use a stronger word)
than they would be merely from the amount paid—he there-
fore 'proposed their entire repeal. Their amount (the duties) on
oeceitional Nish; Servants) be stated at 37,200/. There were
tioties impulsed on another class of persons whom he had al-
ways regarded us ill suited to bear taxation—he meant those
individuals who were returned in the schedules as peen-
' item) elardeners. The tax was intended to tall on those
' who kept a garden as a luxury ; and viewed in that light he
had nothing to say aeainst it. But in many instances it had
operated (tholAgil such WikS not the intention of the house) to
Keep poor' people from being employed, because if a man
was employed for a single week as an occasional gardener, the
tax must be paid for the year. Its amount was ten shillings.
--Thie was nut much, to be sure, but it made an additional
return necessary, and be could not deny but there was some-
thing unpleasant -in being, compelled to make an additional
entry in that paper which was annually presented from the
Tsta-office.--(A laugh,)e—To say the truth, people did not
like, because from chanty, or any other motive, .they occa.
;tonally etnpluyed a poor man as an occasional gardener to
pay this tax, and therefore they would he pleased with its re-
peal. The amount of,this reduction he estimated at 19,7001.
The next positive reduction which he had to propose was 'the
duty on the lower class of Taxed Carts. A Petition had been
preserited on this subject, and the Honourable Member for
Aberdeen intended moving, on Monday, for a return connect-
ed with it. He should be welcome to • the paper which would
then be given, as he hoped, for the list time. The repeal
of 'the duties on the lower description of Taxed Carts, would
Involve a surrender of Revenue to the amount of 9,3001.
, Them was another ditty, the amount of which was very small,
but which it VMS desirable to repeal, as it fell on those who
Were least able to pay taxes. This was the duty of 3e. at pre.
sent imposed on, Punits under thirteen hands high. Formerly
when money. was wanted, they were obliged to take all they
could get for a' whip-up . but to , the present circumstances of
the country, there could be no objection to ,the repeal of this
duty, which amounted to hut 44801. There was another duty
of three shillings on Small Horses employed by Farmers in
agriculture and also in tratle„ which produced 0,5001. This
he 'proposed to abandon. :Having stated these absolute repeals
which he meant to reeortunentl, he came now in addition, to
state, that be intended to submit to the Committee. a reduction
usual per cent. in the duties on Horses, Carriages, and Ser.
vents. These imposes, thteugh they might be supposed to fall
fir the most part, on persons of considerable .means, pressed
tile° 9n those who were entitled to relief. '('he first item—the
duties on Male Servants, amounted to 169,0001. That on per.
sons employed as Clerks, gave to the Revenue 913,0501. The
duty on hour-wheeled Carriages, which he proposed to re.
duce, amounted to 145,0001. ; that on Two-wheeled Car.
risges, to 90,0001. ; and the tax which he proposed_ to take
of Riding Horses, he estimated. at 324,0001. ; and the
hewer duty on Horses, which he proposed to seduce twenty
per cent. would withdraw from the Revenue' 72,5001. He
now came to a subject respecting which, all classes felt the
deepest Internet, he meant the duties on Windows.—The ge-
nerd principle on which be proposed to act with respect to
them, was to reduce them fifty per cent. ; but he proposed to
give is.n eheolute repeal of the duty on tete particular class.
The Committee ware probably aware that warehouses, shops,
• and, ceenting.houtees attached to dwelling-houses were already
exempt. He meant to propose the total exemption of the
Ground Floor Windows of It Shops, whether. such shops were
attached to houses or not. lie thought the relief thus afforded
to the small trader would enable him to compete with those
who at present had an unfair advantage over him, the owners
of moveable shops, who sold their roods from a cart tail. The
duty thus abandoned would amount to 150,0001. The total
amount of taxes to be reduced was '1,2:33,0001. With respect to
Ireland he had to announce,a measure of very considerable im-
portance. He proposed at since to repeal all the Assessed Taxes.
( I fear I)—lfe was sure the people in Erntland would not begrudge
tide relief to their fellowesubjecte in Ireland. The amount of
three duties was 100,0001. He did not know that this Repeal
wouid produce any real defalcation in the revenue, but ,at all
- events lie was anxious to witness the effect of a measure like
that which he now recommended, and he thought the equeli-
zetion of the English and Irish Duties would nearly compensate
for giving up the Assessed Taxes. There was no one connect-
ed with Ireland who did not lament the consequences of the
present Distillery Laws. It was known that they occasioned
great distress, misery and interruption of social intercourse.—
The manner in which they were necessarily collected erected
aired, The Distillery Laws made it the interest of the Land-
lord to protect his tenant in the violation, and they made it the
interest of their tenant to live in opposition to the law. He
could conceive no state of society more lament dale. There was
nothing to keep the people of that country toeether, but every
skiing t!, produceand perpetuate the most fate: separation. Ile
therefore could not look on the Distillery Laws without wish.
ing to alter them, to restore, the blessin,t of social inter-
course.. Such WO the object of the measure which be meant
to propose, namely, a great reduction in the ditties of Irjeli
h Whether the measure would succeed or not Gott only
knew, hot at all events the experiment was worth making.
Evers if it would have the effect of defeating his calculation as to
.. the Surplus Revenue of the year (which he did not expect) he
60014%01 be anxious to attempt to remey the evil which he
• find deseribed. Ile had now concluded ha statement. The re-
sult was, thet lie had en increased Revenue ; but lie ought first
- to have stated thnt we had as increased Cemmerce which had
produced an increased consumption and increased comforts to
the people, whieh naturally gave an increase in the Revenue.
We had a surplus' of which a portion could be applied to the
reduction of' the Debt, and the remaining might be given to the
public in die remission of Taxes, which very remission would
in its effects tend to compensate the Revenue for the reductions
• now made. Ile called upon the'Committee after hearing this
statement, to lonk back as lie did to the efforts which the coon-
- try had used--to the dangers which it had braved—to the difii-
Calties which it, lout surmounted—and to the sacrifices it had
made to aetomplish those great objects—he called upon, them i
to look back on these things, and to recognize in the fortitude
. which lied been reserved milting; anti which had accomplished
much, a living proof of the veneration and attachment of
• the rTople of Englend to those glorious institutions, which,
el. iming civil and religious liberty for their basie, were the
mighty uoleeeling eupportere ROd chief cauge of the greatness
and prosperity of this country.-h(The flight lion. Gentleman
• resumed his seat • militia loud chtere 'from all parts of the
Howie.)
INIATIERLEY commenced by saying, that as the
/tight litionnrable Gentleman had deemed it expedient to apt).
' love to the house with all the advantages of his Officio] in.
formation, he wa.s sure the House would feel that belied a very
strong claim upon its indulgence. lie should proceed at once
to the most important parts of the Right Hon. Gentleman's
statement ; those .'hich. related to the reduction of taxation, and
to the supptirt of public credit. The Right IforeGehtlernan had
taket, credit to the flueernment for an immediate reduction in
tit.- ihitimates, below the Estimstes of the Committee of 1017,
by saying that they were a million and a-half lower. He would
not admit their right to batch credit, because that reduction now
=de was is complete censure on the Government for not having
inede it sooner.--411ear, from Mr. Ileine.)—To slim the vigi.
lance and atikiety of the Government, in evincing the Expen-
diture of the country, there was the tact, that it was not
until last year, that the estitnatee had been brought 700,0001.
under those of the Comniitteee and now they were a million
anti a half below them. But if this reduction had taken place
`at first, as recommended, there would have been saved to the
country no teis than ten reillions. However, he was glad that
liiiisters had, at last, attended to time Report of that Com,.
mitten. The Right Ifonourehle Gentleman bad also stated,
wtitat there was et considerable redaction in , the cameo; of
'Collecting the Revenue. Ile, of course, had not obtained a
knowledge of whateliad boen done this year; but looking to
usher years, there had been the same neglect of duty on:the
Now of Government. 1810, the expences Of collecting the
'Revenue were 4,283,0001. In 1822, they were 4;151,0001.,
leaving the *hole ditTerence at 138,0001. Ile did not see that
this evinced any great attention to economy. Again, the col.
decries ottliellevenue in Ireland in 1818, waso9l,oool. In
• 403, it was 801,0001, The Right Hon. ()cadet= had stated.