The Sun.
London, England, 1824-03-30 00:00:00

PAR I, I A 31E NT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, MArtcm 29.
Earl KINGsToN took the Oaths and his Seat, as Baron
Kingston, of the United Kingdom. His Lordship's sup-
porters were Lord REDESDALE, and Lord LIMERICL as
-Baron Oxford.
Earl GROSVENOR moved that the Returns of the Sine-
cure Offices abolished in et,i Colonies be printed.—Ordered.
The Noble Earl then moved for a Return of the reduced Sa-
lary of the Clerk of the Pells in Ireland.—Ordered.

sig SILK MANUFACTURES.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that he beld'a petition
,700 Silk 'Weavers of the • Parish of Spitalfields,
in the ned by 25
City of London, against the Bill now in progress through
theit,LordshiPs' House. He had read•the petition attentively,
and' as it appeared to him in all respects unexceptionable, he
thought it his bounden duty to present it.—Read and laid on
the table.

The Marquis of LANSDOWN fully concurred -in the opi-
nions embodied some years ago in theßeport of their Lordships'
Committee relative to the opening of the Silk Trade ; opinions,
however, from which. he should not have hesitated to depart, if
he had seen the least ground for altering his 'mind ;. all.he rose
for now was to do justice to one of the individuals who'had at-
tended that Committee, Mr. Hale. This Gentlemat.than whom
there was not a more respectable individual, had been con-
sideredforeign more friendly than he really was to the' admission of
thiaoNnnend_gr
ebeensp e
texpungeding the
from thees foßr Report. silks, in consequence of a passage of his evidence_
introduction the
iiehad ..bfeeneo_qreuiegsj,
silks which would arise from a change in the law, and had -an-
swered that they would be very great, following up that slate
went by giving the names of several Ladies .who had availed
themselves of the facilities which already existed, to procure
abundant supplies of those articles. The part of his answer
containing those names had very. properly been omitted, . and
hence arose the misconception; for the next question having
been whether he considered that inipbrtation unfavourable to
the trade, he knowing that the question related to the irnOorta-
tiOn effected by those Ladies had answered that he did not,
because it created a taste for silks and made them fashionable.-
Now, on account of the omission which he -had Mentioned,'
that reply had been thought to relate to the free importation
of fOreign Silks in general; which, on the contrary, Mr. Hale'
regarded as likely to prove fatal to the Silk "Trade in this
country.

EDUCATION. •
Earl DARNLEY after congratulating the Muse on the ap-
pointment of a Commission to inquire into .the state of
,Edu-
cation in Ireland, in conseqUence of a motion made in another
place, and stating that it would enable him to curtail whit he
had to say on the general state of Ireland, moved for certain
Returns respecting Protestant Charity Schools in Ireland.—
Ordered.

The Marriage Act Amendment' Bill wvis read a third time.

SLAVE TRADE.

Lord BEXLEY moved the second reading of the Slave
Trade Piracy Bill.
The Marquis'of LANSDOWN wished that notice of the
motion had been previously given, as he had an objection of
some importance to make to the Bill.
Earl GROSVENOR stated, that it was urgent there
.should
be as little delay as possible in the liassing of the measure.
The Marquis of LANSDOWN had no objection, as that
was the case, to postpone his obServations till the question that
the Bill be committed.
Lord BEXLEY said, that it was only half an hour ago that
he had learned that his Noble Friend (Earl Bathurst) couldnot
attend, he would be to-morrow in his place, he (Lord Bexley)
should propose that that Bill be now read a second time, and
that it be committed to-morrow, and that their Lordships be
summoned.—Agreed to.
IRELAND, AND MARRIAGE OF DISSENTERS.
The Marquis of LANSDOWN had intended to preSent
several petitions relative to the Tythes Commatation Act in
Ireland, but as he had some observations to make on the altera-
tions which it was believed would be proposed in that Act, and
as he understood that Friday would be the earliest day on which'
the Noble Earl at the head of the TreaSury (whose illness he
much regretted) would be able to attend, he should postpone his
intention till that day. For the same reason he should also
postpone the second reading of the Bill for the relief of the Uni-
tarian Dissenters from the Marriage Act to the same day, and
consequently moved that the Order for its second reading be
discharged and renewed for Friday neat, and that the Lords be
summoned.—Ordered.

Earl DARNLEY and the Earl of KINGSTON also postponed
the Petitions which they had to present, on the subject of the
Tythes Commutation Act, to next Friday.
The Penitentiary Convicts' Bill was read a second time.

Mr. JOHNSON' presented certain Returns, pursuant to the
orders of the House, from the office of Chief Secretary for Ire-
land.—Laid on the table.—Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
MISCELLANEOUS.
General GASCOYNE-presented a petition froth certain in-
habitants of the Town of Liverpool, against the Lancaster
County Court Bill.—Laid on the table.
Sir W. CONGREVE presented a:petition from certain in-
habitants of the City of London, praying for leave to present a
petition to incorporate the Amicable Loan Society.—Ordered
to lie upon the table.
Mr. HUSKISSON presented a petition from an individual
against the Bahkrupt Laws Amendment Bill.—Laid on the
table.

Mr. Alderman WOOD presented a petition from a number
.of Watermen, plying at the Tower, against the St.. Catherine
Docks' Bill.—Laid an the table.

Air. T. WlLT6NPresente:Ci petitions from the Watermen
of St. Catherine's Stairs, Alderman Parson's Stairs, and the
.Tower Stairs, against the New Iron Bridge on the
table. . .

14r. HUSKISSON presented a petition from certain Wool

Growers, praying- for the recluction.of the Duty-On Foreign
Wool to what it was, before it was raised.
After a few words from Mr. G. Bennet, Mr. ITuslcisson, Mr.
.W. Curteis, Sir H. Parnell,-Lord Milton, Mr. W. Courtenay,
111 r. Curwen, Sir E. Knatchbull, Mr. S. Wortley, and. Mr,
Bright, the petition was ordered to be printed.
Mr. HUSKISSON pre,ienti,d a similar petition from the
to be printed.
Wool Growers of. the Counties of Durham and Northumber-
land.—Ordered"Mr. HITSKISSON presented a petition from the Weavers
of Manchester against the Combination Laws.—Referred to
the Committee onArtisans.
31r. DAVENPORT resented a • petition from the Licensed
Victuallers of Cobham, aa'ainst the Duties on Excise' Licenses.
—Laid on the table.
Mr. P. MOORE.
Presented a:Petition from the Journeymen
Brassfounders of London, 'against the Combination Laws.—
Referred to the: Committee on Artisans. -
Mr. MACPIIERSON GRANT presented a petition from
the Wool Growers of Sutherland, praying the' repeal of the
Duty on the:Exportation of Wool. • •
Mr. LAMBTON presented a pion from ,Sunderland,
against Slavery in the Feat Indie.s.:-'4Zaid on the table.
Mr. LAMB'rON Presented a petition from-South Shields,
against the Hides and Skins BilL—Laid on the Table. .
Mr. LAMB ros
.gave notice, that soon after Easter he
should present a petition from Mr. Buckingham, relative to a
gross aouSe of the liberty of the press in India.
Mr. C.U.R.WEN moved for Returns of the Exports and
Im-
parts of Corn,-Malt, and Flour, for England, Ireland, and
Scotland, within the last five years..—Ordered. •
Sir R.. SHAW presented a petition from an indi victual named
froughtOn, a
.woollen manufacturer in the County of Kildare,
against the -Union Duties.—Laid on tile table.
Sir E. KNATCHBULL presented a petition from the parish
of St. Paul, Deptford, against tile Duty on Coals. Also a pe-
tition from the same place, praying the repeal of the Window
Tax.—The petitions were ordered to lie upon the table. •
Sir E. KNATCHBULL presented a. petition from an indi-
vidual named Harvey Bishop, an inhabitant of Maidstone,
praying that the advantages given to the Distillers of Ireland
and Scotland might be extended to those of England.—Laid on
the table.

Lord EBRINOTON presented a petition from the Licensed
_Victuallers of the Borough of Tavistock, against the Duty on
Exci3e Licenics.

Sir W. INGLEBY presented petitions from Sleaford and
Thorn in Lincolnshire, praying the abolition of Slavery in the
West Indies.

Similar petitions'were presented from Uppingham and ano-
ther place in the County of Rutland, and from Lanark.—Laid
on the table.

Mr. M. A. TAYLOR pregenteda.petition from the Farmers
of Durham against the Hides and Skins on the
table.

Air. Alderman WOOD: presented a petition from Halifax
against the COmbinatiOn Laws.-.-11eferred to the Committee. on
Artisans.

COAL DUTIES.

Lord EBRlNGT6lpriseirt;lle7iTions from two places in
Devonshire against the Coal Duties.—Laid on the table.
Mr. COURTENAY presented a similar petition from Exe-
ter. The Hon. and Learned Member was anxious to impress
•
upon his Right Hon. Friend, the Chancellor of the 'Exchequer,
the severity with which this tax affected the poor. He thought
vernment.•
it was one which 'deserved the earliest attention of the Go-
Mr. NEWMAN supported the prayer of the petition, and
maintained that no tax could he more beneficially repealed.
Mr. G. BENNET said, that the impolicy of the tax in a
county like that of Devon, where there was the finest lime-
stone in the kingdom, was equal to its injustice, and called for
its immediate repeal.
Lord MILTON thought the Right Hon. ChancellOr of the
Excluiqtier bad not made a wise sylection in taking off that
part of the duty which affected the people of London
In his opinion such taxes should be, reduced as pressed Upon
the.people• generally.
rcSSCd his hope that the subject would
be kept t 9
sightn lF Eofitt exp
ousc by the constant' presentation of
next enabled Chancellor of the Exchequer was
make when t
avkelfuritileler reductionse would bear in
mind petitions
t
feeling of the countryit.
ie :
stro andn gto that
Orioniono
Die
retMr. W. SMITH contended for the
•pro
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIEQUE9 said, that, in
consequence of the observation the Hon. Oentleman had made
i N.
Cf
repeal in; thea nd
tax,
few words. lie could not help thinking that there had been a
"P" this subject, it was perhaps necessary for him to say a
misunderstandin a the I.„d
H e never maintained that 0 • b .1) 31
duty Pressing
had proceeded.
severity upon many, parts of
• wa s not a pressing with much
the country. But it was a duty
which had exited for the last century, and-he always thonglit
•
himself bound to consider -the interests which h•4l. grown .Up
under it, before it was repealed all at once. At the same time lie
never held it right that such considerations • should prevent its
removal, so that due notice was given, and the reduction effect-
ed by gradual means. In addition to this looking at the-ge-
neral state of ottr tax Lion, tion, he did not think this a tax so much
heavier than the rest as to
require the application of theentire
.million of revenue Which they
had to spare in the present year.
The sum which he thought shoUld be .fairly given to it, he had
-bestowed upon the 'additional dUty imposed on the City of
London, thereby removing what he considered to be an ag-
gravated injustice. In
adopting this coarse, he could not 're-
train from ;believing that lie had begun at the right end of
• his work, and that he had done only 'What justice demanded.—
(Hear!)
Sir W. RIDLEY said, •
he did not complain of taking off the
three shillings and fourpence additional duty upon the London
coals, but he rose to protest against the unequal and unjust
continuance of 6s. duty on, sea-borne coals, while only ls. duty
was paid upon those imported by inland navigation. The lion.
Baronet gave notice that soon after Easter he should submit
to the House a proposition for reducing the duty on coals car-
ried coastways.
Mr. LITTLETON said that when the proper time arrived
he had. no doubt of being able to defend the justice of the.mea-
sure proposed by the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exam-
quer for reducing the duty to Is. upon inland coals.
Mr. S. 'WORTLEY thought that his -Hon. Friend would
find some difficulty in persuading the HouSe'that it was a fair
measure to make sea-borne coals pay a ditty of six shillings,
while in-land coals paid only one... An fact, it was giving a
bonus of five shillings to a worse and a dearer article.
Mr. HUME said the Chancellor of the Exchequer might re-
move the diffictilty by repealing both duties.; and he tould en-
able himself to do this, by giving up the Sinking Fund.
Lord Mir.TON explained.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT objected to the principle of inequal
relief alluded to by his Noble Friend. _

Mr. MABERIX said, the Hon. Gentlemen who had sup-
ported Ministers in their view of the Sinking Fund, ought now
to hold their tongues, and not object to it. They were incon-
sistent in suppOrting Ministers and then presenting petitions
• against their measures.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he had
no objection to the Resolution on the Duty upon Coal being
recommitted, in order to a further discussion of the principle
embraced by. that Resolution. He would propose Thursday
for the discussion, if convenient to all'parties.
Mr. Alderman WOOD spoke a few words in favour of the
City privileges.
Sir M. W. RIDLEY said the Coal Owners of the North had
no wish for exclusive privileges. He however afterwards gave
notice of a motion for Thursday, as suggested by the Chancellor
of the Exchequer, merely, as he said, to bring the subject un-
der discussion.

The Petition was then ordered to be printed.
Lord WM. BBNTINCK presented. two Petitions against
Negro Slavery.—Ordered oh the table.

A Message from.the Lords here announced their Lordships'
assent to several Bills.

Mr. Sheriff' WHITTAKER appeared at the Bar and presented
a Petition frOm the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Commons of
,I,ondon, in Common Council .assembled, against a Priiate
Bill—Refurred to the ComMittee on the Bill.

Mr. BUXTON presented a Petition from Chichester against
Negro *Slavery.—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. MABERIX presented a Petition from Abingdon
against the Alien Bill. The Hon. Member took that oppor-
tunity of explaining a statement he had made on a former
evening, respecting a survey of the kingdom with a view to
equalize the window Duty.
The Petition was ordered to lie printed, as was,a Petition
from the same place against; Negro Slavery, and another from
Tipperary' against the reduction of the Linen Bounties, pre-
sented to the same .Hon. Member.

WORTLEY .presented a Petition "frbm Yorkshire,
praying for the gradual Abolition,of Negro Slavery, inlvidd

sentiment the Hon. Member concurretl.—Ordered to lie on the
table. _

Mr. S. RICE presented' two petitions from Limerick and
Cork against the Repeal of the Linen Bounty.. •
Sir R. FERGUSSON'spOke against the petition, and hoped
the Chancellor of the Exchequer would persevere in his inten-
tionlepe rint shortlyed.
to repeal those bounties.
Mr. C. HUTCHINSON supported the petition;_ and con-
tended that the bounties ought to be continued a few years
longer.
S in support of the
Trpetition
o Ca
Mr. CUItTEIS presented a petition from Brighton against' inNn whichi
i Nt
tweEea sloW Pon
dt
er Re
CdTot Uns bP°ty Courts Bill was postponed to
be
r.
the Duty,on Excise Licenses.—Ordered to lie on the table.
Lord BELGRAVE presented a petition from Chester,
praying for a survey of the kingdom.—Ordered to lie. on the
table.
Mr. KENNEDY 'presented a petition from .Ayr, against
Negro Slavery-Ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. HUME moved for several Returns relative' to. the Sei-
zure of Spirits on the Coasts.—Ordered.
LEATHER DUTY.
Mr. CA LCRAF gave notice of a Modern for the 18th of'
May, for the repeal of the Leather. Duty. e
BURIALS IN IRELAND.
Mr. PLUNKETT moved the Order of the Day for the
'second reading of the Burials in Ireland Bill. The Right Hon.
Gentleman observed, that this being a Supply night he would
not have pressed the motion respecting this Bill had he not
received satisfactory assurances from Hon. Members on all
sides of the House, that there was not so much division of opi-
nion on the subject as to render it probable that it would lead
to any protracted debate. The Bill before the House related
to the celebration of funeral rites in the Protestant church-
yards of Ireland, according to the service of the church in
which the persons about to be buried should die. Although it
was a subject of delicacy and importance he did not apprehend
that it would occasion any reasonable alarm among the Members
of the Protestant religion. It had been originally introduced to
the House by his Right Hon. Friend (Sir J. Newport), who, the
House were aware, was fully equal to _the advancing this or
any other subject connected with the public good ; but it had
been considered better that the Members of the Irish Govern-
ment should promote the measure, in order to shew the public
that there was a sincere disposition to follow it,up with effect,
though there were many reasons for its not having been brought
under the notice of Parliament before. The first part of the
Bill went to repeal the statute of the 9th. William the Third,
cap. 9. To explain this it would be necessary for him to state
that in Ireland there were a number of sites of Abbeys and
Convents appropriated to the religion of former times ; and
which were still held in respect. They had been richly en-
dowed, and were tenanted alternately by superstition and bigot-
ry, and real piety and religion. These lands were now vested in
the State. From the Reformation down to the Revolution they
had been used as places of burial for Catholics as well as Pro-
testants; but at the Revolution, the performance of the burial
service in those places by the members of either religion had
been strictly forbidden. It might be difficult to account for
this general prohibition ; but it had probably its origin in an
apprehension that these places revived the remembrance of the
ancient religion. But whatever might be the cause of it, he
believed the House would agree with him that it was not pro-
per to be enforced. This indeed was abundantly proved by
the present practice which was in disobedience of the prohi-
bition. Haien thelaw. was disobeyed, and the disobedience
was not considered reprehensible, there could be no doubt that
the law itself ought to be repealed, and that it was pro-
posal to do by' the present Bill. A clause, however, was
introduced, limiting the extent of the repeal by protecting.
private property, as some of these seites had not of late
years been used as places of burial. Having said thus much
of the first part of the Bill, he came to the more important
part-e-that which referred to the DiSsentets right of inter-
ment In ihe Protestant Church-yard. The Noble Marquis at
the head of the Irish Government had felt• the deepest anxiety
on this subject; and the object which, after the most mature
deliberation, appeared to him advisable,was the giving to all
Dissenters, Catholic or not, the right f interment, not inter,
firing, however, with that just vigilance which might be sliewn
by the Established Church. This being, in the opinion of the
Noble Marquis, the , proper object, it had fallen to his (Mr.
Plunkett's) lot to state it to the House, in consequence of his
legal connection with the Irish Government, and the friend-
ship in which he had the honour to be held by the Noble
Marquis' whose views and opinions on that account, it was
thought he was peCuliarly enabled to explain. He thought
it would be better for him to commence with a statement
loeflltlaie s, burial
a ri gi
By the Act of Uniformity he was bound on occasion ofthose
of the law as it now stood. The Freehold of every Pro-
testant Church-yard was by law in the Rector or Parson and.
no one could come upon it without his express or implied per..
ce-
remonies,mission.
andH aatlhoinsew hadas z tdhue
tysumiliehris superintendence
as ce
v
ceremonies to read the service appointed by the Liturgy, and
no other. Indeed he was bound not to permit any other. If
this were acted upon strictly, it would exclude a great body. of
the Irish people from the rights of interment. Ile was not in-
quiring, nor was it for the House to decide whether the people
were right or wrong in this. He was speaking only to the fact,
and this was established by a reference to their known feelings
end prejwlises. He repeated that a full exercise of the legal
rights would amount to an exclusion from the rights of burial.
At common law every person had a right to interment in the
Protestant church-yard, subject to the right or duty he had
before mentioned of the Protestant Clergyman. Yet, on the
other hand, if the Protestant Clergyman waived this right or
duty, there was no law prohibiting the funeral service in the
Protestant Church-yard, according to the forms and ceremonies
of any other religious persuasion, however ostentatiously or
offensively they might be performed. In Ireland there had ,
laws imposing penalties on Catholic Priests, unless
they caused their names to be registered in a prescribed form,
abneeYedngcmaav uael:y certain securities for their conduct. By Act of Par-
liament in the 21st and 22d years of the reign of the late King,
these penalties were done away on certain restrictions, one of
which was, that these Priests should not perform the Catholic
ceremony of burial in a Protestant church-yard. If he did, he
became liable to the penalties inflicted by the former Acts. Is
was this laid Act which had led to a belief that the performance
of the Catholic ceremony itself was prohibited. However, all
doubt on this subject was removed by the Act of 1793,' which
removed all penalties except those to which Catholics and Pro-
testants alike were liable. This was the state of the present
law, under which it was the duty of the Protestant Clergyman
to perform the Burial Service in all cases : and after which
Service, the. Catholic Clergyman might, without violating any
law, come upon the ground and perform his own. He asked
the House, whether such a law, if acted upon, was not calcu-
lated to sow the seeds of discord among the community 2
(Hear !)—But until lately, notwithstanding the existence of the
law, its non-observance had rendered every thing peaceable, so
much good spirit was there in the people of the country, what-
ever might be their religious opinion. And he was here bound
in justice to the Protestant Clergy of Ireland (a body of men
who, on many occasions, had been much misrepresented) to
state that, in general, they had not interfered with the religious
principles of the Catholics; and, oh the other hand, the priests
of the latter had not performed their ceremonies in a manner
calculated to give offence to the Protestants. The CatholiCa,
in general, did not offer to perform any ceremony whatever in
the church-yard ; all prayer being said, and all ceremony per-
formed, before taking the corpse there. In a
.few instances,
where the deceased belonged to the better classes of life, the
priest performed a short ceremony in one of his robes. He was
convinced that these facts could not but be satisfactory to the
House, as they.shewed there were hos that mildness and con-
ciliation would do much to 'remove all grounds of contention.—
(H ear !)—ln this state of things, it must be obvious that it would
have been most unwise in the Government to interfere one way
or the other. But about four or five years since complaints
began to be heard respecting the conduct of the RoMan Ca-
' tholic Priests. These complaints, in the course of time, became
more frequent, but whether the fault lay on one side or the other,
lie was neither competent nor willing to pronounce an opinion.
Probably the House would agree With him that it was better to.
leave the matter in this state of ambiguity, and not attach blame
to either party.—(Hear ! )—However, without entering into the
question of " who was right" or " who was.wrong,'" all that
• Government, with prudence, could do, was to.rernonstrate. If
they stated the law which gave power to both parties ty per-
• form the service, they would be only inviting mutual discord.
'But, as the law became known, the question presented itself,
and was now before the House, " whether such a law ought to
remain ?" He again repeated thaea full exercise
.of it would
deprive a large Majority of the people of Ireland of the privi-
lege Of interment in the, tombs. of their ancestors, a, privilege
the desire of which Was inseparable from human nature, which

was common to the most barbarous,. as well as.the most enliglit-
• ened of mankind, it desire which proceeded from a sourpe out
of tlusreach of all reason Or .philbSophy, and whiCh proved to
us, beyond all 'controversy; that there was a something Which
directed our hopes to look beyond the grave,Wear, hear
If this desire were thwarted, and this -law allovied to remain,
new evils`and epniests would arise. The loWer Orders pf ;the
people were already fttriously disposed, and if just offilnce
were riven to the higher orders it would iMpossible to an-
swer for the Consequences. lie would, -however, take it 'for
granted, that the douse would 'go along with him in thinking
that the fitv, as'it now stood, ought to be altered, and he would
therefore address himself' to the terms of the proposed altera-
tion. When this part of the subject was first considered,it was
thought that the establishment Of separate. burial places would
be desirable, but this was abandohed on reflection, as likely to
draw a line of demarcation between the Catholics and Protestantsf
and widen the breach which unhappily wasalreadybetween them.
Indeed, when it was recollected that a
.Catholic and Protestant
might marry, and that the proposed separation- woulckend to
exclude their enjoying the last Satisfaction of being entombed
together, lie. was satisfied the House would at once see the im-
policy of spell a course. He should Propose therefore to declare
the right of interment in the protestant church-yard, but to
provide against its beingoffensively exercised. At present tbere
were many cases by the existing law, in 'which, without some
special provision,' many difficulties might occur. That would
however he matter for consideration in a Committee. That main
part of the Bill was its giving all Dissenters the full benefly of
interment in the Protestant church-yard, according to cere-
monies of his own religious persuasion. This alone was a
'barter of toleration, for which the Catholics "ought to, and
would be grateful. The Protestant ;Clergyman . would be en-
abled,to grant the exercise of this right ; but he would have
the power to refuse in writing to the party applying for the
interment, stating his reason for refusing, arid forwarding a
copy of that writing to his Bishop or'his Ordinary, who would
be directed to forward it to the. Lord Lieutenant. In this re-
spect, the law to a certain extent was mandatory on the Cler-
gyman. There would be some provisions necessary with regard
to the Burial. Service, which, in the Catholic Religion, differed
froth that which was performed at the grave. The Right lion.
and Learned Gentleman here entered into an explanation of the
difference., but the noise in the Rouse rendered hint inaudible-
-He was not surprised that alarm was felt by the Protestitnt
Establishment at the first mention of the proposition he Was
making to the House. It was doing what had never yet been
done, viz. introducing rites and ceremonies within the pale of
the Protestant Church, which had hitherto been excluded, and
which were besides the rites and ceremonies Of • another
Church. A great deal of the :force of this objection, how-
ever, was done away by the consideration that ill,: abolitiOn of
the power in question was doing away with a privilege which
had never been acted on, The provisions of the Bill under This
view were rather relieving the parties from an irksome task than
depriving them of a right which they were in the habit of ex-
ercising. The principle of the measure he considered to have
been conceded already by the Protestant Church. Although
not performed in the Church-yard, the Protistant Parion knew
very well that the service was performed in a room before the
body was brought out for burial. Were this not the case, it
would be his duty to perform his own service over the body rattler
than allow it to be thrown into a hole like a dog. It was there-
fire a fair conclusion, that by his forbearance he proved that he
knew and tacitly assented to the observance of the rites 'in
question, and admitted the body into the Church-yard in con-
sideration of those rites. Thus it. might be ar'=i'd, that this
Bill proposed to make that law which, by the forbearance of
the Protestant Parson, was already law in fact. !le was sure
that the law would meet with no praCtical difficulties in Ire-
land, and that it would prove in its operation one further proof
of the wisdom and liberality of the Lord Lieutenant, and pre-
sent Government of Ireland. The ,Honourable Member 'con-
cluded by moving the second reading of the 11111.
The question having been seconded, was put from the Chair,
and carried stem. con. The Bill was then read a second time,
and ordered to be committed to-MorreW. •
MILTON'S 'MANUSCRIPT.

On the motion that the House should resolve itself into a
Committee of Supply,
Mr. W. WILLI , MS begged to Put a question to the Right
Honourable Home Secretary, with respect to a MS. lately dis-
covered, and said to be the Undoubted work of Milton. He
understood that there was no question whatever as to the ge-
nuineness of the work; that it was in the hand-writing partly
of Phillips, Milton's nephew, and bore' otherwise sufficient
marks of authenticity ; and lie was desirous, therefore, of
knowing how it had been disposed of, and whether it was to be
printed.
Mr. PEEL said, that the MS. in question had been found
among some state papers. It was a theological work, de Pei
Cultu, treating of the truths of the Christian reiigion, and no
doubt, as far as evidence could go, authentic. How the MS.
had come into the situation. where it had been discovered, it
was impossible to guess; but it had been submitted to the
Icing, who at once had said that it was fit it should be given to
the public. Accordingly, it was placed in competent hands,
and would shortly be printed, under the auspices of his;Majesty.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS merely mentioned it as a subject
which had excited very general curiosity.
POSSESSIONS IN INDIA.
Mr. HUME, alluding to a treaty whiCh he under Stood to
have been entered into with the Netherland:, by which Eng-
land gave up some valuable islands in the Indian Archipelago,
in return for some territory, of whatever value, ceded to her. on
the continent of India, requested to know when the particulars
of that transaction were likely to be laid before the House ?
Mr. WYNN said that such a treaty bid been entered into,
by which Sincapore had been ceded to the English. As We
understood the Honourable Gentleman, he said that the papers
in question would not be upon the table before May, as it was
necessary to wait the meeting of the States-General of the Ne-
therlands.

Alr. HU said, that, according to report, Bencoolen had
been given up, without any stipulation with the Dutch Govern-
ment in favour of the individuals who had been so Tong our
subjects there.
Mr. WYNN declined at present entering into particulais ;
but he believed that when the papers came to be laid before
the House, the Hon. Gentleman would.see that the subjects as
to which he inquired had.been attended to.
BRITISH MUSEUM.

The House having resolved itself into a Committee of
Supply,
Mr. BANKES moved that 4,8471. be voted for the expences
of the British Museum for the year 1824. The ,Hon. Gentle-
man observed, that a smaller sum.Of 5001. might also be re-
quired for the same service, arising out of a bequest of certain
topographical documents highly illustrated, the condition at-
tached to the acceptance of whiCh was, that 5001. should be
paid to the Execu tors.
Mr. BENNET took occasion to make some remarks upon
the management of 'the British Museum upon this motion,
The state of the treasures of the Museum had.been well de-
scribed by a Journal called the Edinburgh Review, which it
was well known had a wide 'circUlatiOn. Ile took this state-
ment for his foundation, and confesSed he placed implicit
reliance in it. He could from his knowledge take upon
himself to say that it 'was generally correct. It had created
the greatest clamour amongst literary men to know who
was the author,. but that had not been discovered. In his
collectioninirie
s he
lefitia f
toad
the l-eilf
ucsoenufinirnbiaytit of
Hanthis s
isotaatneem,
feon. In
rtinstantch:
he.found that the greatest •haioc'had been made. There were
very few of his collection left.. They bad been left to Perish
in the vaults of the Musethn.. He had left at least 5,000 in-
sects and I,ooe. birds, and upwards of
.1,00 of the class of
marnmalia.. Now the insects ought to keep at least fifty years,
but they. had almost all perished. Great complaint had been
made of the want of room; but he, could admit of no such .ex-
cuse so long as 59 apartments were occupied by the 04!ers
of the establishment. It was fairly establiSlied that the exhibi-
tion of Zoology was very disgraceful to the country, and the
more so as compared With the stOres.that We liad, but neglected
to make use of. In this respect we were 'far behind Holland
and France, and rather than valuable speciMens should perish,
bethought some of the Officers Of the might take some
of them into their rooms. He .knew that Dr. Leach had grie-
vously complained of a want of room ; and if the TrUkees had
come to Parliament with that coMplaint' it wOUld have. been at-
tended to. . In Paris the beak were kept openly exhibited in a
living state,. and, when dead, were first anatomically dissected,
and then stuffed.; after which the bones were Put together, and
furnished part Of a Museum of cOrnparative Anatomy, Which
existed no where else. noisy differently things were managed
in this country ! 'rite fate of Sir JOSePh Banks's,fine collection
of birds was well known. It Was left to the Museum, who
gave it to the College of Sur eons WhO again ecxcilikcantro:t!tles
present of the' Museum .with Mr,, : his o
sold, and" the'Museurn became purchasers at a great expellee

..Of many of the specimens they had originally parted with. '
Ile complained of the appointment of Trustees who did not
or could not give their attendance. The. Lord Chancellor, it
was said, had declared that he had never been at the Museum
since Ire was appointed a Trustee, but once when he was corn-
pe'eled. He contended that scientific men should be appointed
to such situations, and that if the British Museum were to
receive collections of birds and beasts, at least they ought to
preserve them from destruction. There seemed to him to be a
deficiency in the department of Natural History, which ought
to he remedied. They had, he believed, in one instance, la-
belled a cat as a tiger, and a lion as a hear, which could not
but derogate from the character of the Professors of the Esta-
blishment.
Sir C. LONG observed that had the Hon. Member for
Shrewsbury given himself the trouble to inquire alittle further,
be-would have found that many of the statements of the anony-
-3.10us writer in the Edinburgh Revi,:vg were totally without
foundarion, and that the remainder were so exaggerated as to
lead to false conclusions. The Hon. Member had said that
very few of the collection left by Sir Hans Sloane remained.—
He said that the insects were valuable, and ought to have
lasted fif!y years. But Sir Hans Sloane died in 1780, and his
collection was now upwards of a century old; and, when the
Hon. Member said that there were 5,000 insects left by Sir
Hans Sloane, he ought to know that there were in the British
Museum 70,000 articles of that order of Na•ured History,
.amongst which were included every one that was in Sir Hans
-Sloane's Collection. These were in the Museum, and if not ex-
*sect to public view, it was because mei), of them were arti-
elete that perished in' the light. Some of this Collection had
certainly perished, but that was to be attributed to the mode
then in use of preserving them. The Hon. Member said there
were 1800 specimens of inammalia : but in fact there were
• 1800 articles only, some of which were teeth, and bones of dif.
ferent ?arts, but very few entire figures. The observations with
respect to Sir Joseph Banks' collection, he would
,answer in
one sentence, viz. that no step was ever taken with regard to
shat-collection, but under the direction of Sir Joseph Banks
himself. In consequence of what the anonYmous Reviewer
had stated, an inquiry had been instituted, from which it re-
sulted upon the report of the intelligent Secretary, Mr. Henry
Ellis, that 371. les. had been expended in purchasing back from
Mr. Bullock what had once been in the hands of the Museum;
but this purchase had been made at the express reconimendal
tion of Dr. Leach. Mr. Bullock also had stated that he never

purchased any cases pitched over, as represented by the Re-
viewer. The Hon. Member had been severe on the officers of the
-Museum. A few books might perhaps be placed in their apart-
ments, but surely he would not wish to send such an article as a
canieleopard, a bear, or a rhinoceros, into their rooms.—(A
I augh.)—They were moat • valuable men, arid did their duty
fairly, punctually, and satisfactorily to the Trustees. As
to the misnomers of which he spoke, they had arisen from
a person cleaning the cases having changed labels.—A
very bad joke of that sort had been played off upon the
Lust of that patriotic and scientific individual Sir Joseph
-Banks upon which the label cf an animal was stuck. He miviit
-as well say that the one threw discredit on the Trustees as triat
the other was discreditable to the Officers of the Museum ;
-when he stated that one of t'• OfficerS had an unsuccessful
rival, it might probably be guessed from what quarter the
--article in question proceeded. There were four Quarterly
-Meetings of the Trustees, at which every man reported what
he -had done, and what suggestions he had to make since the
lest meeting. Upon these Sub-Committees were appointed,
besides which there were Monthly Committees, and also six
Committees of the Trustees themselves, who reported upon
what they were required to examine. The only answer to all
complaints was, that there was not accommodation in the
present building. If there were, there could he no doubt
that our relations With every part of the world would enable
Us to make a better display than any other nation could. And
when the Hon. Member said they ought to have applied to that
House, he was sure that had they come down to the House
three years ago anti called for a large sum of money for a large
building to put the Zoological collection in, the Hon. Member
for Aberdeen would have put on one of the most terrific econo-
mical aspects that he had ever exhibited, and he was not sure
that all the Country Gentlemen he then saw around him would
not have supported. him. He hoped the statement he had
made would shew how little foundation there was in the st-te-
ment put forth by the publication alluded to on the subject of
the British Museum.

Captain M BERLEY knew that many presents had been
made to the Museum of Paris, because there was no chance of
-their being seen if given to the British Museum.
Mr. IL GURNEY complained of the • illiberal treatment
Mr. Salt and Mr. Belzoni had experienced from the British
-Museum in the sale they had made to them of certain valuable
• objects of antiquity. They had been considerable losers by
their endeavours to serve the public.
Mr.. BANKES said, in answer to an lion. Member, that
• there was no truth in the report that a sum of money had been
'-IAI to the British Museum.
Mr. BANKES thought that Mr. Salt, the Consul-Ge-
neral of Egypt, had not been well treated. He had expended
--at least 4,500/. in the articles transmitted through his exertions
to this country. He had no doubt he must find himself much
embarrassed on account of the insufficient payment he got.
Mr. HUME complained of the constitution of the body of
Trustees. Amongst them were twenty-one entirely official men,
who certainly could not be expected to give much attendance.
He thought that as a means of conferring distinction on science,
scientific men ought to be appointed.
Mr. CROKER said, he did not rise to add any thing to any
'of the objections which had been made; but to suggest one
entirely new.' Every one must know in the case of a public
'library how valuable was the catalogue. lie believed the
catalogue of the British Museum Ras well done ; but be
complained of its enormous price. To make it accessible to
the poor scholar, for whose use more than for those who were
opulent in the world, such an institution was designed, he
-'thought that some grant should be made, with a view to
selling that catalogue at a cheaper rate.--(Hear, hear !)
The Price, he believed, at present amounted to eight or nine
guineas ! It would be necessary, from the a addition of the
eiCing's Library, to reprint the catalogue, so that this was
the opportunity for any arrangement of the kind he suggest-
ed. The great want of room in the present building would, he
hoped, be borne in mind in any new building for the British
Museum. And he again intreated the Committee; and through
them the country, to recollect the necessity which. he had be-
-fore endeavoured to impress upon them of separating the
works of art from the more scientific part of the collection;
,when it was considered that works of art were designed to
humanize and civilize the minds of the people, it because clear
that unless they were placed in the gangway of the public,
nothing was done towards the grand national object in view—
the improvement of national taste.—( 1 1 ear !)
Mr. 13ANKEs; said it would be necessary to come to that
House for a larger grant if catalogues were furnished at a
cheaper rate. Another catalogue had lately been put in band
of the King's Library, which, as it would be a handsome folio
volume, would, he was afraid, be morb expensive than those
which had preceedcd it, unless the House niatie a grant to en-
-able the Trustees to furnish those who desired to possess it at
• a low price. When it was contended that the situation of the
useurn was so far out of the way, that but few could visit it,
he begged to state that for some years past the visitors had ex-
ceeded 99,090 in each year. With respect to the confined
space, he begged to remark, that the quadrangle marked out
was equal in size to Hanover-square.
Sir C. LONG agreed that it would be desirable to have cata- .
logues at a cheaper price. This he was sure was felt by the
Trustees. It had been said that no person distinguished for
proficiency in natural history had Assisted in the administration
of the Museum. To this he begged to reply by mentioning the
names of Sir Joseph Banks and Sir Humphry Davy:
Mr. W. SMITH remarked, in the call for cheaper cata-
logues, that it was to be remembered, the library of the Museuni
was a library of reference, and a catalogue could always
,be
inspected there, from which those who went to the reading
room could ascertain without expence whether or not the works
they desired to consult were there. He thought it was not
surprising that the difference remarked between the collection
of the British Museum and that of the Museum at Paris, should
exist, when the one had been formed about the year 1750, and
the other as lately as 1810.
Mr. CROKER thought the necessity for printing cheaper
catalogues was not done away, because a catalogue could be
inspected at the Museum. From want of a catalogue at home,
the poor scholar sometimes walked perhaps from Lambeth to
the Museum for the purpose of consulting books which were
not there to be found. He had no objection to the catalogue
of the King's Library being printed, as it was now printing.—
That seemed to him most suitable and proper, but, generally
speaking, he objected to seven, eight, or ten guineas being paid •
for
made
ca t
ia n l o
t,nue : and considering how Noon, from the alterations
elibrary, they lost much of their value, they could
not be too cheaply got up.
Mr. .BENNET made a few remarks, which were not dis-
tinctly heard in the gallery.
Mr. R. SMITH hoped the vote of that night would not pre-.1 I
elude thetu from granting a further sum for the purposes which
had been set forth.

Sir C. LONG, as an individual, would have willingly given
a larger sum than 2,0001. for Mr. Salt's .collection, but as a
Trustee he would not have been justified in doing more than
had been done. Any person conversant with such subjects
would be satisfied that the collection in question was worth
considerably more than had bean offered for them. He noticed
the remarks which had been made on the Trustees. He had
nothing to do with the election of them, but as a body he had
never met with men better entitled to respect. It comprehended
individuals of the highest rank and talent in the country. He
would ask, when individuals were disposed to enrich the
National Collection with their benefactions, if a body of men

could be named in whose care such contributions could be
more safely placed. The Trustees had always been anxious to
do their duty by the public, but he was sorry to say that for
this but little credit had been given them.
The Resolution was agreed to.
IRISIi MISCELLANEOUS ESTIMATES.

On the motion of Mr. GOMAILTIIN, a sum of 4,478/. was
granted for the support of the Society for discountenancing Vice
in Ireland.

On the motion that 22,0001.- be granted for promoting the
Education of the Poor in Ireland,
Mr. HUME said, if they wished to educate the poor in
Ireland on an extended scale, they ought to study the religious
feelings of the people. He understood that many Catholics
refused to accept the boon of education under the present sys-
tem. He was of opinion the greater portion of the sum voted
for this purpose ought to be set apart for, and placed under
the management and controul of Catholics. He read a letter
confirmatory of his view of the subject, which stated not more
than I -a poor Catholic children received education out of 10,000.
(It was asked, from the opposite side, from whom the letter
came?)
.Mr. HUME stated it to be from a Mr. Keating. It set forth,
that those Catholics who did receive education, did so from
fear rather than from choice. He was decidedly of opinion that
no satisfactory progress would be made in educating the poor
till that principle should be adopted which he had recommend-
ed to the Committee.
Mr. L. FOSTER defended the principles and conduct of the
Kildare-street Society, and went into considerable detail to shew
the great and increasing benefits conferred by it upon Ireland ;
and contended that it would be much better to refer to the 14th
report of that society, than to the information of Mr. Keating.
That report recommended that the children of Catholics and
Protestants should be educated together, and that the religious
education of both should be confined to the reading of the Holy
Scriptures without note or comment. That report also stated
that twelve years ago there were in Ireland no fewer than 4,600
schools.. With respect to another point, that relating to inspect
tors of schools appointed by the society, he could assert that
two of the six inspectors were Catholics of the first families in
Ireland, one of them related to Lord Fingal, the other to Sir
Edward Bellew. More than one-halfcatholc so, of
andt
e more
schoolmasters
an
em-
ployed by the society were
three-
fourths of the children in their schools were of that persuasion.
The success of the system in Munster might be proved by the
returns from two counties, from which it appeared that in the
year 1817 there were in those counties only three schools patron-
ised by the society, in 1318 there were seven, in 1319 there were
12, in 1820 they had risen to 30, in 1821 to 38, in 1822 to 59,
and in 1323 to 108. The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to
shew the general increase of schools throughout the country ;
last year 800 new schools had been established, and were the
vote then before the Committee agreed to, lie felt justified in
hoping that a further increase of 1050 would take place during
the present year. There had been already established by the
Society upwards of 4000 schools, and if they should go on in-
creasing in the same ratio that had for the last five years, Ire-
, land would be saturated with schools. If the Committee, there-
' fore, should think that religious education was desirable in Ire-
land, there was nothing more to be done in order to attain that
*desirable object but to contribute to the support of the Society.
He proposed to do nothing ; he argued to nothing ; he only sub-
Mitted to the Committee facts, which (if they should remain
unconttadicted) must be decisive in procuring the assent of the
Committee to the proposed grant.
Sir J. NE\VPOWI' thought that the grant ought, at all
events, to continue while the Commissioners were pursuing their
inquiries, that the progress of education in Ireland might not
be arrested till they had made their Report.
Mr. C. HUTCH INSON agreed with what had fallen from
the Right Hon. Baronet, and maintained that great benefit had
been derived from the grants for promoting education in Ire-
land. He was sorry that there was any objection on the part
of the Catholics of Ireland to profit from them. He hoped it
would be the first care of the Commission now proceeding to
Ireland, to endeavour to eradicate the prejudices which pre-
vailed on that subject. He was sensible of the advantages of a
scriptural education, but thought that in the management of
the schools in Ireland too much care could not be taken to guard
against alarming the Catholics, by letting it go abroad that they
might not avail themselves of the benefit of education without
subscribing to a condition which was incompatible with the
faith they professed.
Mr. NORTH (in a maiden speech) thought he knew his
countrymen, and knew that it was only necessary to state clearly
what was intended, and trust to their intelligence—there was
not a more intelligent people—and to their candour—they
were a candid and frank nation—and above. all, to &i,dfrtohnei
paltry policy of taking a middle course,
they
e ipilduestilletddo
an
where avowal
theyof the
were
concerned.principles
iweh
act tcellt TttLvF srtilVi
their delicacy too far who objected not to a bold animated
and perhaps angry debate, but to a calm regulated and
cold (lie hoped the word would not offend), to a calm and
dispassionate discussion of that in which they were inte-
rested. As one of the original Members of the Association
formed to promote the education of the poor in Ireland, he
would explain some of the difficulties they had to encounter
when they had no Parliamentary aid; when nothing of the
kind was contemplated, and when they had nothing to depend
upon but the excellence of their object, the purity of their
motives, and the devoted ardour with which they were pre-
pared to labour in the cause. He would state the circumstances
under which those rules were laid down, which governed the
proceedings of the Kildare-street Society. The Catholic Clergy
had not acted in this business as they might have clone. They
had not appeared awake to the importance of the subject.—
The lion. Member adverted to the want of education in Ire-
land previous to the establishment of the schools then under the
consideration of the House. There had been schools in which
licentiousness and vice were cherished. The Hornbook, in-
stead of a guide to literature, was an introduction to vice.
The books in the schools to which he alluded were any thing
but the road to moral instruction. They had led to prin-
ciples and habits which became the dismay of the Gentry
of Ireland, and led the Government to entertain views of
dangers. How did the Society deal with the evil ? They
thought it best to make religion the basis of instruction,
and they left the Scriptures without comment, open to the
perusal of classes. They unfortunately found in Ireland
two great families of Protestants and Catholics. The Lords
of the country had drawn a line of demarcation between
those sects, leaving them at variance and badly disposed
towards each other. The Society thought it would promote
the welfare of that mingled population to give them principles
of liberality and virtue which might lead to mutual attach-
ment. They wished to act upon a plan which had succeed-
ed in the College of Dublin, and jsee them grow up together,
forgetting religious differences, in close pursuit of knowledge
and sound principles. They wished to make them feel when
they grew to manhood, that they had drank together at the pure
fountain without going to diverging streams. The society had
another object, namely, that or winning the affections of the
Protestant Gentlemen to the Catholic children. There was no
part of their whole scheme which had so much success as
the last he had mentioned. It was desirable their object
should be extended over the whole of Ireland, but it was said
to be impracticable. The Catholic Clergy were opposed to
it. They wee told the Bible could not be read in conformity
to Catholic tenets, but that was not the fact. The Catholic
population ruShed to these schools. Whatever objections had
been urged, he was happy to say all were giving way to truth
and liberality so apparent in these schools. That the Clergy
should be opposed to the system of teaching he should ever de-
plore. The opposition on the part of the Catholic Clergy re-
minded him of a passage in the life of Lord Clarendon, who
said he observed in his progress through life that of all classes
of men, the Clergy took the worst measures for the benefit of
human life., The Hon. Member concluded by expressing a
hope that the Hon. Member for Aberdeen and the Right Hon.
Baronet would feel gratitude for the good which had been done
by the Society from the purest motives.
Sir J. NEWPORT explained.—The sum was then voted.
£27,667 was next agreed to for the Foundling Hospital,
Dublin.
£10,009 having been proposed in aid of schools established
by voluntary contributions,
Mr. HUME said, the whole of this grant was generally mis-
applied; it was extended in aid of Protestants only. The
Hon. Member considered the grant increased since last year.
Mr. J. SMITH wished to koorr whether these schools were
not under the entire controul of the Protestant Clergy.
Mr. GOULRURN said no distinction was made with respect
to the religion of persons applying for the benefit of this fund.
Mr. $l. lien and Sir .J. NEWPORT mentioned cases in which
the Bishop had refused to grant leases of land for these schools,
unless the controul of the same was given to the Protestant
Clergymen of the parishes.
Mr. GOULBUitN said an Act of Parliament required the
controul of these schools to be vested in the Minister and
Churchwardens, for the purpose of protecting,the schools.
Mr. HU3IE regretted that the grant was not so much for
the promotion of education as to promote the patronage of the
Protestant Clergy.
Mr. GOU.LBURN produced Papers, by which it appeared
that the money subscribed by the public had been applied to
building schools.
Mr. C. GRANT said, the object of the Grant had been
faithfully carried into effect.—The sum.was then voted.
The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, the House resumed,
and the Committee was ordered to sit again on Wednesday.
Mr. GOULBURN moved for leave to bring in a Bill for
declaring the stealing of records to be larceny.
After 'a few words from Mr. HUME and Mr. BUTTER-
WORTH, leave was given to bring in the Bill.
The other Orders 'of the Day were disposed of, and the
House adjourned at a QUARTER PAST TWELVE O'CLOCK.