The Sun.
London, England, 1841-01-27 00:00:00

AgioRNING EmtnoN.

. .-- - . eve--,--- --- . ..e. __see_
than its own, and then the hand of time; Held among those
/
other hands by human hands, wad the hands of theirpretent
ally and confederate, Russia, which had mare constantly,
powerfully, and successfully aided in the operation of pull-
lase the Ottoman empire to pieces, than all other hands--
lit: own included—put together. It was by reforming it
dal; it had thus been taken to pieces that they were to
ward against future contingencies and possible danger.
Now Its` teem come at once to what that danger was, be-
cause it eshould not be mere danger to Turkey, for that
would not no. That was no argument for interfering in
any
way, aCCOrding to any doctrine of the balance of
power ; that Nas
snhootulda
bes a
ufficiendtauggerrounwdhioohf ltcrference ; thcrd .
im-
plied .a rick to ()the., countries, to the peace of
the world, to the safety of nations. Now, that danger
was nothing more nor less than this. It was a danger to
be apprehended from Russia herself. But if Turkey
got enfeebled, if Mehemet Ali were left in possession
of Egypt, and if to Egypt were added Syria, out of
which the difficulties arose, it must be that because Me-
hemet Ali's being possessed of Syria would enable him
to proceed further, to pass the Taurus and then the Bos-
phorus, and reach Constantinople. This would entitle
Raaain to come down as a protectress, whiles her object
was to take a share of the dominions of the. Porta in
addition to that large share which she already possessed.
That was the reasoning on which alone the rupture
with France avas to be defended. It was certainly straagr,
, that of all the Powers in the world 51:e very Power
1 against whom that policy was directed should be a
consenting party to at. There was an old saying, that
if you wanted to find out the author of any .set-, you
I bad only to find out the party who beeefited
-
by h..—( Hen.) Let thorn apply the converse of that
rule in the present instance; and they would find that
Russia me". have taken a very steange part in the late,
proceedings. Taking the subject altogether, they should.
say that whatever might have been the triumphs in the.
Levant. Russia must have gained from the policy pursued,
and been better than before it. He could convince them
Russia could gain a less immediate, but certainly an in-
comparably greater benefit—he would not say in the long,
run, hut at no distant tiny—by keeping the Turkish em-
i pire for a short space together, and by being deprived of a.
1 pretaxt for interfering with her protection, to which, in
European policy, the natural consequence whiah followed
ace partition. What made Constantinople forbidder,
grouted ? What rendered it hcaieless for Russia to
turn her eyes towards Turkey? Nothing but the
alliance between France and England. The one o;ajettt
which was pursued by Russia more than any other was,
that that alliance should cease, and that there should be
substituted for the good understanding which had so long
happily prevailed, the angry if not hostile feelings which:
were now openly manifested on both sides. To gain that
object at any sacrifice of temporary interests, was worth
all the successes whiCh her arms or negotiations, could pro-
cure for her in any other way ; unhappily in that she had
succeeded. Ile had no confidence that the present state
of things, unsatisfactory as it was, would be of very long
duration. The alienation which had for a long time sepa-
rated France from Russia, and which was partly of a per-
sonal nature, might he removed. The public spirit which.
had lately possessed the ambitious Court of St. Peters-
lairgh, and induced that Power to exert itself in maintain-
ing the iategrity of the Turkish empire, might be expected
to give way to older and more; steady feelings, to the
indulgence of which there was not stow the barrier which
the English and French alliance before presented. Bat
it was said that England had been induced to adopt the re-
cent policy in the Levant, to prevent France from seizing
upon Egypt, upon which she had an ceee for the last hall
century, and to which she was creeping along the coast
of Spain. But whether was France most likely to pursue
that object, in alliance with England ?—or when separated
from England and thrown into the arms of Russia? What
security had they that those two Powers, iefloenced by
those VICW3, would not come together and accomplish those
purposes, much more after they had ceased to be She ally
of France? To the talents and ability of h's Noble
Friend in the other House, displayed in these negotiations,
he war as ready as any one to do ample justice ; thonealt
to him (Lord Brougham) who had had experience of thee
powers of his Noble Friend in business, in negotiation, and:
in all the departments in which he could be called upon to
act, there was only admiration of his address and his states-
manlike powers—there was no surprise, no novelty. But
he would give him every credit for the execution of this
Treaty which it was possible to give him ; admitting
that his adversary the French Minister was completely ira
the wrorg, it was beside the question; he might be com-
pletely in the wrong, and yet the policy of his Noble
Friend might be as entirely wrong too. It did not at all
follow that the country of the one had not a right to corn-.
plain of that policy, because the country of the other might
have great and good cause to complain against Ministers.
Before he closed his observations he might be permitted to
make one remark. In God's name do not let it be sup-
posed that the people en this side the water had for one
instant felt indifferent to the evils, which had been threat-
ened, of a war with Fraece, or to the great blessings of
rnai training peace with that nation, It might be said that
there had been no demonstration to that effect, but this he
could account for. They never believed it possible—the-
idea, as a practical notion, had never entered their imagi-
nation: If they had been once told that they were on the
brink of a scar with France he believed nearly the whole
people—he was confident the great majority of the people
—lie knew for certain that an overwhelming majority of
the working classes end the middle classes, and all the
Liberal party, as they were called, of this nation, without
roe exception, would have risen up as one man, and
said to the Government, tne peace with France
shall not be broken, come what will.—( Hear, hear.)
Then, likesrieg, another reason why no demon-
stration
had been _made was this—it was a reason why
other demonstrations were suppressed too. The Noble:
Lords opposite were not a! the head of affairs; the friends,
of peace, the patrons of the French alliance, the leaders
of the Liberal party were. Tie natural allies of that al-
liance, if he might call them so, the friends of pacific •po-
liey, the enemies of a rupture witfe France unless reduced
toaTr; y,t
ehrdeeer.wl
to it by absolute necessity, were preveatted from making
causeoasn s demonstra
tionanother
rrw
fhr, iei coa hos
do they haeoyd
whichthought
leaders
operated,i
om cht
Government be e i C) j llr i o I l S.
and perhaps
a more justifiable one, in his opinion a reasoo which did
them the greatest possible credit—it was, that at public
demonstration might possibly be productive of the most
danacroua cousequences. When they saw the bad steirit
which prevailed on the other side of the Channel, the
pains and the means which were so unscrupulously'
employed to foment it, and to produce the worst possible
feeling of national animosity, and the most deter-
mined opposition to the continuance of peace, these
reasons had operated necessarily to prevent a pub....
lie demonstration. This was not mere speculation,'
he knew it to be the fact that they had been used. It was
thought that as they were ignorant of the precise nature
of the negotiations which were in progress, and that word
the sword once drawn, no man could tell how long it would`
be before it returned to the scabbard, it would be impru-
dent to risk injuring the cause of peace by snaking a de-
monstration which all their feelings, all their wielice, would
otherwise have lcd them to make. Let not his Noble
Friends in the Government, then, suppose that this feel-
ing did not exist, that this opinion did not prevail, and
take up a firm and deep hold upon the minds of the people.
Do not let them imagine that if peace ;had been broken,
or had even been put in real peril of proximate rupture,.
the c would not have been such a sensation all over:
the country, such an unanimous feeling of repro-
bation among those who were the friends of peace
and alliance with France, as would have made it im-
possible that that policy should have been pt rsisted in.
Most undue means had been taken for bad purposes by un-
sesupulons men in France to take advantage of the popu-
lar excitement there, and propagate an unfriendly feeling
sgsinst the alliance of that country. He hoped and
trusted that these nice were few, that the proselytes were:
not numerous, ard they would fail, as they well deserved.
He lamented the proceedings, both in the circumstances
and manner in which the alliance, which had occasioned
the rupture with France,- had been carried on. He la-
mented the mariner in which it had been executed, and
the want of courtesy that had been shown towards France..
Even that illustrious man, upon whom his Noble Friend
w:Ao had seconded the Address had pronounced a panegyric
—3l. Guizot, even he, with all his dispositions in favour
of an alliance with that country, had complained of the
discourtesy with which France had been treated. In
France they had a nation exhibiting the greatest quali-
ties—a people known to possess the greatest genius, the
highest courage, and the utmost military skill and charac-
ter; while, combined with these feelings, they might sec
a nation
" Jealous of honour; sudden and quick in quarrel,"
and that people having their destinies committed to a man
oft he greatest power and genius. They were a peotpl:
extremely prone to take offence at what might not b
intended to be offensive, and it should make those dealing
with them scrupulously, nay, exaggeratedly
thatp country
To suppcse for one moment that any man in . . ;
ever thought lightly or spoke lightly
most monstrous
of his ga an comrades who
ever undervalued the military renownoofflit__Frtatnocseu—pptboastetthheayt
of
ofar_dt their
ofoug
ghatllafinetlrdY had
d
the illustrious Duke, or anyhighly
had battled with them in manY a
ever spoke otherwise than
had
man. He (Lord Brougham)heard the subject
suppositionsmilita r 3 achi
e 't
china that n everts' would
cr crossed sbs eed""teh e f himagination of any
broached in every sort of society—by those who had
thought more and bad thought
thele ssin favour of France—
by those who retained some ofvulgar national preju-
dices of that side of the water ; but he had never beard
any disparaging sentiments expressed with respect to
French gallantry, skill, and renown in any one society,,
rn than couldt bethelimbled, and none would bw
pal Power; and, had it been proposed in 1814 and 1815
anFtilremaitcethiraleetr.'.deYr she always beNaobglereatpleuakdeinghaimndseplfrinctio-
to encroach the fraction of an acre upon the integrity of
the French empire, that illustrious commander, and no less
illustrious negotiator and statesmen, would have been the
first to have resisted it. No one had ever dreamt of
humbling France. The truth was, her humiliation could
only arise from the unrestrained indulgence of those pas-
SlOll3 which agitated, as during the first Revolutions a
part of her population. He hoped, however, the designs
of such men would be frustrated. He felt a confider.cer
in the high spirit and manly feeling of the French Govern-
ment—in their consciousness of their own power—in their
certainty that they must ever command respect—in their
fearlessness that any one could treat them with disrespect a
and, trusting that those feelings might be universal among-
the French people, and that their amicable relations to-
wards this country might be revived, he would conclude
by expressing a fervent hope that all that had been done,
much as he deplored it, would not endanger the peace of
the two countries, and the tranquillity of Europe.
Lord AI la LBOURNE said that before that debate had
begun he certainly did anticipate, and he still hoped,
alter what had fallen from the Noble Lord, that their
i Lordships would come to a unanimous vote on that ocea-
i sion. But he could not anticipate that, considering the
i great events which had lately taken place in the East, and
i the nature of the policy on which they were founded,
that those events and that policy would be passed over by
. that House in silence. lie was not-surprised, therefore,
i at what had fallen from his Noble •and Learned Friend
s (Lord Brcughani) in the speech which they bad jl.lst,

MORNING EDITION

and—a speech so able and eloquent, and in the general
principles of which he (Lord Melbourne) agreed. But
he was sorry that he could not at the same time concur in
the application made by his Noble and Learned Friend of
those principles. His Noble and Learned Friend, had
stated, and with truth, that the Address did not pledge
the House to an approval of any of the measures to which
it referred. He would say that the Address had been
framed with singular care and caution on that head. Mi-
nisters acre certainly aware that the policy they had
pursued was bold and decisive ; but he trusted when the
documents relating to it came under their Lordships'
consideration they would be found to justify that policy.
Ile thought, too, that it was not calculated to wound the
feelings of the most sensitive nation. On that subject he
would beg leave to observe that it was not sufficient for a
people to say that their temper was easily ruffled, in order
to compel other nations to violate their general course of
policy in their regard. An ill-tempered member of a fa-
mily could say—" Take care, and do not tamper with
any ill humaur."—(A laugh.) That would not justify
him in interfering with the rights of others. It was asked
why were they so anxious in July last to deprive the
Pacha of Syria, when they were willing to give him Egypt
and Syria in 1837. It was not necessary for him to inquire
whether the policy pursued in 1837 was wise or not.
There existed at that time motives and feelings which did
not exist at present. There were views respecting Greece
which rendered the Allied Governments anxious to settle
the affairs of Turkey; and it was with the object of avoid-
ing the ulterior measures to which they had been since
compelled to have recourse, that the most favourable offers
were made to the Pacha. It was clear from papers that had
already been laid on their Lordship? table—from the dis-
patches of Colonel Campbell in 1838, that the Pacha me-
ditated his entire independence, and designed to consti-
tute himself a separate and independent Power in the
Mediterranean. His hostility to the Sultan showed itself
by his seizure of the fleet, and his refusal to restore it.
It was perfectly clear that he was determined to encroach
on the Turkish empire, and to constitute himself the sole
or greatest Mahometan Power in that part of the world.
It therefore become necessary that the other Powers
should oppose themselves and take decisive measures to
counteract his designs.—( dear, hear.) He could only
say that they delayed those measures for a great length
of time; the only charge which could be made against
them was that of delay and procrastination. They might
he asked why had they not done all this before, when
there was less opposition and difficulty ? His answer was
that they were solicitous to obtain the concurrence of the
Five Powers. They had no other object but to act together
for the pacification of affairs in the Levant, and the neainte•
wince of the Turkish empire. They had been disappointed
hitherto, but he did not give up the hope that they should
yet agree altogether in that matter—( Hcar, hear)—and
concur in such a settlement as might tend to secure the
tranquillity and repose of those parts of the world.
( Cheers from the Ministerial benches.) This was shortly
and distinctly the ground on which they had acted. His
Noble Friend had said that they had promoted the views
of Russia. He did not know what designs Russia might
have, but she was hound by treaty to concur in maintain-
ing the integrity of the Turkish empire. That the ob-
ject which they had had in view was not effected without
bloodshed, he must deplore; but he was convinced that it
tended to secure the safety of Europe and the peace of
the world, and he trusted that before long that policy
would be concurred in by all the Powers of Europe.
He would not enter into any argument upon this, as he
trusted there was little difference of opinion. But he must
say that it was not in the power of any one country to
commend peace.—( Hear, hear.) They could alter their
own internal laws, but they could not say they would have
peace or they would have war. It depended upon other
Powers whether peace could be maintained, and they
could not say that under no circumstances should they con-
sent to war.—( Hear, hear.) Having said so much upon
the general subject of the policy of the Government, he
could not but express, in conclusion, the very great satis-
faction which he felt in the circumstance that there was
no appearance of opposition to the Address.
Lord BROUGHAM briefly explained.
The Duke of WELLINGTON rose, and said that it
would not be necessary for him to do much more than to
state his desire to support the Address, and his hope that
it would pass unanimously. But he must congratulate
the Government upon the ability manifested by the Noble
Mover and Seconder of the Address. The speech of the
Noble Mover involved many topics of very great import-
ance—topics too which were not at all referred to in the
Speech, but of which the Noble Earl had made the
greatest use in favour of the Government which he sup.
ported. With respect to the topics alluded to in the Ad-
dress, he was one of those who approved of the measures
which had been adopted. He had looked for a great
number of years with much anxiety to the state of the
Levant ; indeed, if he was not mistaken, he drew
their Lordships' attention to the subject at the time
when the events occurred which had occasioned the present
state of affairs in the Levant. He must say that under
these circumstances he had heard with the greatest satis-
faction that her Majesty's Government were taking the sub-
ject seriously into their consideration, with a view to apply
the best means in their power for the pupose of removing
the dangers with which Europe was threatened by the
state of things in the Levant. He hoped, and thought
there was every reason to believe, that these dangers had
been removed, and he trusted that the negotiations which
were in progress would end in the manner to which his
Noble Friead had adverted, and that France would join
with the other Powers in a measure which would secure
the peace of Europe and of the world. He had heard a
good deal that night, and upon other occasions, of what
was called an alliance between France and England.
England and France co-operated separately from the
other Powers in the affair of the Peninsula, but he knew
of no other alliance between them. They consulted and
acted together upon many points, which were the subject
of general interest in Europe; but he knew of no
alliance peculiar to them in the general alliance
and treaty of the various Powers of Europe ; at Aix-
la- Chapelle they acted in concert ; but they had
often acted otherwise than in concert.—( Hear, hear.)
He (the Duke of Wellington) happened to be separated
from France and all the other Powers of Europe in 19°0,
at the Congress of Verona, previous to the invasion of
Spain by France. They differed from France on that
subject, just as France differed from the other Powers on
the subject of Syria, and what was called the Eastern ques-
tion. He must say that he saw nothing of discourtesy in
that transaction, although he regretted that it had been
carried on by private correspondence rather than the usual
diplomatic notes, because if these forms had been observed
there could be, in truth, no charge of discourtesy ; but all
parties having agreed to carry on the correspondence by
private notes, no parties but the public had a right to com-
plain. He must do the Noble Lord the justice to say, that
throughout the whole affair he had seen no ground whatever
to find fault with the conduct of the Noble Lord or the
Government in that negotiation, any more than he (the
Duke of Wellington) could find fault with the other
Powers for leaving him alone at the Congress of
Verona. He would remind his Noble and Learned
Friend that he did not think his charge against
Russia quite borne out by the facts. The Russian
Government having made the strongest representations to
that country in France, to take steps to prevent the invasion
of Syria by Mehemet Ali, and he had foretold the conse-
quences of marching his army to Constantinople. He
must do the Emperor of Russia the justice to say, that no
Power could make greater efforts to prevent his own march
to Constantinople, the result of which was the treaty of
Unkiar Skelessi. In allusion to the appeal made to him by
his Noble and Learned Friend, he should say that no man
now living had ever done so much for the pence—( Hear,
hear)—or for the settlement of ail the questions in which
France was iuterested, as he had done, under the instruc-
tions of his Government. From 1914 up to the last moment
he was serving his Sovereign, he had done every thing to
place France in the situation which she should fill in the coun-
cils of Europe, and he had done so from a conviction that
unless France took a part in these councils, there was
no security for the peace and prosperity ;of other nations.
His Friends too, in the different Governments. with which
be had been connected, were as anxious as himself that
France should be on a good understanding with the other
Powers
of Europe, and that she should take that station
among them to which her resources entitled her.He
hoped, therefore, that the affairs of the Levant would bc;
amicably arranged, and that France would be again
placed
in that position which would best tend to promote her dig-
nity and interests.

Lord BROUGHAM felt that in drawing from the
Noble Duke the sentiments be had just expressed, he had
(lone more than he (Lord Brougham) could ever have an-
ticipated for the peace of Europe.—( Hear, hear.)
The Address was then agreed to, and their Lordships
adjourned till One o'Clock to-morrow (this day).

HOUSE OF CJMMONS, 26.
The doors of the Gallery were opened shortly before
two o'clock, end on our admittance the general ap-
pearance of the House struck us as much lighter than
last Session. The interior has been repainted of a light
cream co!our. The bude lights occupy the same places
they did at the close of the Session ; they have, how-
ever, been ornamented in such a manner as to give
them a much more elegant appearance than formerly.
The attendance of Members was scarcely so nume-
rous as it usually is at the commencement of a Session ;
the only occupants of the Treasury Bench at two
o'clock were Sir Henry Parnell and the Attor-
ney-General, while the front bench of the Opposi-
tion was at that hour quite unoccupied. Mr. Ewart,
who entered the House shortly after two o'clock, seated
himself for a while on the front opposition bench in the
place usually occupied by Sir Robert Peel, but he soon
crossed over to his old place, and joined Mr. Hawes on
the second bench on the Ministerial side. The only
pCroensesenrtvatvte
this
sember
time, sof importance, who was
Frederick Pol-
lock. Shortly after two o'clock,howaver,H
the ouse
began to fill rapidly. At twenty minutes after two Sir
Augustus Clifford, the Gentleman Usher of the Black
Rod, announced to the Speaker and the House thatti,e barher
Majesty required their immediate attendance atof the House of Peers, and in obedience to this
nouncement the Speaker, accompanied by 'ati:e.
greater number of Members then present, and Dr
ceded by the Sergeant at Arms, bearing the flare
left the House. The Speaker returned after an ab:
aence of about ten minutes, and the House adjourned
during pleasure.

The SPEAKER resumed the Chair at llalf-past Three
o'clock, and informed the House that during the recess
he had issued neq writs for the election of Members to
serve in Parliament for the borough of Carlow, in the
room of Mr. Vigors, deceased ; for the county of Mayo,
in the room of Sir W. Brahazon, deceased : and for
the Kirkcaldy buyahs, in the room
of Robert Ferguson,
deceased.
Nt MEMBERS.
Mr. CAttEW to the oaths anal his seat for
the county of exford, and Mr. PluoT, the
Attorney-General for Ireland, took the oaths and his
seat, upon hii rc-election for Clouwel,