The Sun.
London, England, 1847-11-24 00:00:00

LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, NOVEMBER 24, 1847,

ROUSE OF COMMONS, Nov. 23.
The SPEAKER took the Chair to-day at Twelve
o'clock, and the swearing in of Members was proceeded
with. Among those who were sworn we noticed
Mr. Hudson, Sir John Yarde Buller, Lord Robert
Grosvenor, Mr. Wodehouse, Mr. Bankes, Sir J. Pak-
ington, General Lygon, Mr. Tancred, Mr. Wilson
Patten, Mr. Redhead Yorke, Mr. Dillon Browne,
Mr. John O'Connell, Mr. Greene, Lord Euston, Sir
R. Fergusson, Sir James Graham, Mr. Oswald, Mr.
E. Ellice, Mr. W. Evans, Mr. F. O'Connor, Mr. F.
French, Mr. Currie, Mr. Ewart, Mr. G. P. Scrope,
Captain Harris, Mr. Mitchell, Sir E. Hayes, Sir E.
Buxton, Mr. Childers, Mr. Maxwell Fox, Mr.
Lowther, Mr. lleald, Mr. Clifford, Lord Alford, Mr.
kiouldsworth, the Right Hon. F. Baring, Mr. J.
Hume, Mr. B. Cochrane, Sir Lucius O'Brien, Colonel
Rawdon, Mr. Forbes, Sir Charles Douglas, and Sir
Wni. Jollife.

Shortly after two o'clock Sir Augustus Clifford
appeared at the bar, and summoned the House to the
_ _

House of Lords, for the purpose of hearing her Ma-
jesty's Speech read by commission.
The Speaker, accompanied by about 200 Members,
rnmediately proceeded to the House of Lords.

After an absence of about a quarter of an hour, the
Speaker, accompanied by the other Members, re-
turned, and the House immediately adjourned till
a Quarter to Four o'clock.

The House resumed at Four o'clock, when about
forty Members were sworn in, amongst whom were
Lord George Bentinck, Mr. R. Cobden, Mr. Charles
Buller, and Mr. Villiers. The swearing in occupied
some considerable time, and long before it had closed
the House became tolerably well filled with Mem-
bers. On the Treasury side there was scarcely a va-
cant seat, but the Opposition benches were not so well
filled. Still there was a thick muster of the Oppo-
sition, and some time before the mover of the Address
rose to deliver his maiden speech the House presented
an exceedingly animated and interesting appearance.
Mr. Feargus O'Connor took up his position on the
Opposition side of the House, on the front bench,
next to Lord George Bentinck, with whom he held a
long conversation. Sir James Graham was early in
attendance, and resumed his former seat on one of
the back benches, but Sir Robert Peel did not arrive
till about half-past four. Shortly afterwards Lord'
John Russell, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and
Sir George Grey entered the House, and they were
immediately followed by the mover and seconder of
the Address, who were attired:in militia costume.
The SPEAKER intimated that Members who had
been elected for two or more places must, within 14
days, elect which place they will sit for.
Mr. HARCOURT gave notice that he should
move that "a loyal and dutiful Address to her
Majesty, praying her Majesty to exercise her
Majesty's undoubted prerogative of summoning
within her Majesty's realm of Ireland the Peer
spiritual and temporal of that realm, and the
knights, citizens, and burgesses thereof, in order
that her Majesty may take counsel with the same in
regard to the great and manifold derangements and
sufierings of that kingdom."--Agreed to.
NOTICES OF MOTION.
RAILWAYS.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
gave notice that, on Tuesday next, he would move
for leave to bring in a Bill to extend the time for
the purchase of land byrail way companies.

TElh RECENT COMMERCIAL DEPRESSION.
The CHANCELLOR, of the EXCHEQUER
gave notice that, on Tuesday next, he would move for
a Select Committee to inquire into the causes of the
recent commercial distress, and as to how far it had
been effected by the laws relating to the currency.
CRIME IN IRELAND.

Sir G. GREY gave notice that on Monday next
he would move for leave to bring in a Bill for the
prevention of crime and outrages in Ireland.
TIIE UNION.

Mr. FEARGUS O'CONNOR gave notice that
on Tuesday, the 7th of December, he would move
for a Select Committee to inquire into and report
upon the measures by which the Legislative Union
of England and Ireland had been brought about and
upon the probable consequences of the continuance
of or a repeal of the union (as we understood).
FOREIGN AFFAIRS.
Mr. C. ' ANSTE f gave notice that on an
early day he should move for the return of a num-
ber of papers connected with the administration
of foreign affairs in this country from the year 1829
down to the present time included, to illustrate cer-
tain charges of high crimes and misdemeanours which
it was his intention to bring against the Noble Lord the
Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs.—(Laughter.)
DECIMAL COINAGE.
Dr. BOWRING gave notice that on Friday next
he should inquire of the Right Hon. Gentleman, the
Master of, the Mint (Mr. Sheil) what steps had been
taken with respect to his proposition to establish a
decimal coinage?—(Laughter.)
ISLE Oil-MAN:
The HoN. Memnext g'a:ve notice that 'on the
same day he should ask the Right Hon. Gentleman
the Secretary of State for the Home Department
whether it was his intention to move the appointment
of a commission to inquire into the civil and criminal
judicature of the Isle ef Man.
ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION.
t fortnight,o At hl
er .
m 1O
nhnleet
rSA
should ln A
which
h gaveeh
callt t
hhee noticeEcclesiastical
attention
inettshiioaa
nst
iocofanit thishe H oduasye
Commis-
sioners had'carried out the Act of William IV.
VEORUTRONINN,ING bEBA' ES
Mr. BROAI
hgeanvetrtlice on• Monday
gjournment of a
thSpeaker should
he should move that
debate was moved and seconded,e
adjourn the House without putting
THE QUEEN'S SPEECH.—TId ADDRESS. The SPEAKER reported that he had attended th
House of Peers this day, and that her Majesty e
de-
livered by commission a most gracious speech.
(The Right Hon. Gentleman then read the Speech.)
Mr. HEYWOOD (who wore the uniform of a
Deputy-Lieutenant) then rose to move that an
humble address be passed to her Majesty for
the gracious speech which they had heard
that day, and in doing so he said he had
to request that indulgence which the House
usually afforded to young Members who for the
first time rose to address it.—(Hear, hear.) He
felt that this indulgence would be the more
needed by him, because he was not en-
abled to congratulate the House upon the
prosperity of the country. He regretted deeply to
state that the commercial affairs of the nation had
been for some time past in an alarming state of de-
pression. The cause of this depression was, pro-
bably, undue speculation in railways that
speculation which so peculiarly characterised this
iron age in England. The capital authorised to be
raised by Pariiament for the construction of lines
amounted to no less a sum than 299,000,000/. ;
161,000,000/. had been already paid upon shares,
leaving 138,000,0001. more outstanding. This enor-
mous capital was of itself enough to cause a crisis
and to lower the income of the country, but
when to this was added the deficient harvest

of last year, and the failure of the potato
crop, and that time disasters led to A great dimi-
nution in the demand from foreign countries

for our manufactures, and that great poverty
existed throughout the country, the House could
not fail to see that all these things must

have materially acted upon the manuTacturing
interests. In Manchester, where the cotton trade

was settled, the weekly demand had decreased from
30,000 or 31,000 tons weekly, in 1845, to not
more than 90,000 at the present time.
Besides this, there had been over-speculation in
Calcutta by the large East India houses—over-spe-
culation in corn, and tie result bad been very great

millions of people so situated in Ireland this winter as to depression in trade, and rest difficulty was experienced
getting discounts even upon good bills, and it wails
1 generallyconceded that some thee must els.pse before
:.-!thrireeedreil
tdhtehna,vv,t,boenipdotbaetcoocnrloepoliv.o,lailide
5,600,009?. Let tli6u not look alone remaining an improved state of things could be brought about.
crime of a people, let them look somewhat to their ors 1 The Noble Lord (Lord John Russell) and the
nietn: assvhsatat,te
tress.—(Hear, bearo The state of things this. year I
Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir C. Wood) under thesre
would be, he had no doubt, worse or quite as bad as .
circumstances recommended the Bank to enlarge its
during the last,and England must not imagine that it
and _
.. he believed if they had not done so
had done with Ireland until it had taken measures to discounts;
raise the people froea the slough into which batl legis- at such a critical period, that a much more serious
lation had cast them. derangement would have taken place.—(Loud
Earl GREY said that, looking at the history of the cheers.) That was the part of a skilful pilot
present year, he did not think it was expedient to en. during a storm. Confidence was in a great mea-
courage the people of Ireland to look to the Govern- sure restored, as persons with good bills could get
nient for relief from the pressure of their present them discounted. At Newcastle there was a run
cu!ty. Last year, tinder a great calamity, it had been upon a bank, and the manager of the Bank of Eng-
necep ssaibye to rto
coc extceal that the ents assistancgrantinge to Ireland ;
re but
lief was it was land in that town had the good sense and lil
e-
imoss
rality
to advance money on good security.
attended by many very serious evils. Certainly he did
Such was the demand that he had to send by
not think that in the present state of the country it was
expedient to hold out any hope to the people of Ireland the electric telegraph to Leeds for more mousy,
and a parcel was dispatched the same day, showing
that anything yeas to, bo obtained from the Government.
That there was distress in Ireland he did not doubt. that the Bank did all it could to allay the excitement
The Government, however, had stores of corn in hand, that prevailed, and to afford all the accommodation
and the British Association still held great funds apish- in their power. The Government was thererefore per-
cable to cases of extreme want, He did hope that fectly justified in what it did. Happily there
these funds would be considered sufficient for the relief was no infringement of the Bank Act, although such
of Ireland. With regard, however, to one point in the an impression seemed to prevail. He was glad to
speech of the Noble Lord (Stanley), he wished to state, find that the Bank yesterday reduCed its discounts to
before he sat down, that it was the intention of the
per cent. In a short time he believed the Bank
• • ' Government to instatute inquiry into the causes of the
•
recent commercial tdstress, and particularly as to how would resume its wonted arrangements, and that
far it was attributatsle to the limitation of the issue of its business would be transacted as usual. The
notes payable on dernand.—(Hear.) state of Ireland alluded to in the Speech could
Lord REI)ESDALE asked if it was intended to origi- not fail to cause the greatest concern to the House.
nate any and what measures in that House? Also if any There was one part which he was sure the llouse
Committee of the Lords was to be appointed on the cur- would agree upon—that the atrocious crimes which
reney question?
Earl were a dark page in Ireland's history must
GREY replied, that with respect to the Bills be put an end to in some way or other.
likely more immediately to come before Parliament, he
No doubt a thorough investigation would be made,
feared it might be necessary to originate ail of them in
and measures brought forward to enable her Majesty's
the other House. With respect to the last question, they
Government
to support majesty of the
the
certainly had not intended to move for a Committee in
law, and to suppress, by all means, the fearful
the Upper House of Parliament.,
crimes which were every day perpetrated.
The Address was then agreed to.
CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES. He was happy to see that in her Majesty's Speech
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY was re-appointed Chairman allusion was made to a measure for the social im-
of the Committees, provement of the people of that country. The Lord
Their Lordships adjourned till to-morrow at Four Lieutenant of Ireland deserved the warmest coin-
o'clock.
mendation for the admirable system which he has
pursued throughout the whole period of the distress.
He had, with great judgment, turned the attention
of the agricultural interest to the improvement of
their crops, and had also recommended that lecturers
should be employed in lecturing in different parts of the
country for the purpose of instructing the peasantry in
the best modes of improving the condition of the
soil.—(Hear, hear.) With respect to our foreign
relations, the House would be happy to hear that her
Majesty still relied upon the continuance of amicable
relations with foreign countries. With regard to the
civil war in Switzerland, he was happy to hear that
means would be taken by her Majesty to
endeavour to restore peace to that country.
There were few countries in Europe possessed
of more dignity than Switzerland, and the
circumstance of one of the most important states
in Europe taking an interest in their affairs, and
endeavouring to arrange -them for them, would no
doubt tend very much to harmonise their unfortunate
differences.—(Hear, hear.) With respect to the
slave-trade' the House would be glad to learn
that her Majesty had concluded a treaty with
the Republic of the Equador, by virtue of
which ships of this country were empowered
to search vessels sailing under the flag of that repub-
lic. In pursuance of the system of free trade, there
was no doubt that the navigation laws would be
brought under the serious consideration of the House,
with a view to their amendment and modification.
The subject had obtained the serious attention
of the House during the last session. A
Committee was then appointed to inquire into
the operation of those laws, and an amusing work
had been written upon the report furnished by that
Committee by the Hon. Member for Stoke-upon-
Trent (Mr. Ricardo). A measure respecting the
health of towns, more especially with respect to the
metropolis would, he was happy to hear, be
brought under the consideration of the House.
This was a subject which pressed particularly upon
the attention of the House, now that there were ap-
prehensions of the return of that fatal epidemic
which in former years had visited this country. He
felt convinced that the best preventatives to the
spread of the cholera were to be found in abun-
dant supplies of water and an efficient drainage
of the streets and alleys of large towns.—(Hear.)
With regard to the sufferings of the working classes,
he most cordially concurred in the commendation
expressed by her Majesty of the exemplary manner
in which they had borne their privations.--
(Hear, hear.) From his own personal know-
ledge of their conduct in Lancashire he
felt convinced that they also deserved the respect of
this House. The Hon. Member concluded by moving
the Address, which was, as usual, an echo of the
Speech,
Mr. SHAFT° ADAIR, in rising to second the
motion, claimed the indulgence of the House upon
the same grounds as that of the Honourable
Member who moved the Address. No person
who had witnessed the severe distress and privation
existing in this great capital during the course of the
late stoppage of trade, could fail to appreciate the
feelings which had induced her Majesty to authorise
her Ministers to agree to a proposition which might
have involved an infringement of the existing law.
The course then pursued deserved the warmest
thanks of the House.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.)
With respect to an allusion that the late abundant
harvest had mitigated the pressure of distress, he
trusted that this House would shortly adopt some
measure to ensure, as far as possible, a prosperous
and consecutive employment of the working classes
—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the navigation-
laws, there was no doubt but they required a '
full consideration and attentive examination. He did
not, however, imply by examination an abandonment
of those laws, and he trusted that in that inquiry no
prejudication of the question would be allowed to
bias the result to which the House might come upon
the subject. —.(Hear, hear.) Projudication for
the abolition of those laws was equally
as fatal to a full and fair inquiry as
prejudicative to their conservation.—(Loud cheers
from the Protectionists.) He was happy to
hear that cheer from Honourable Members oppo•
site, and he trusted that when called upon to enter-
tain the question they would submit themselves to the
task of a full and fair inquiry into the whole subject.
If he thought the mighty efforts of this empire were
to be crushed by the alteration of these laws he
would be the last to vote for such an event taking
place. But he knew that such would not
be the result. He believed that all that
had taken place was temporary, and would soon
he set right. It would afford the House great
gratification to learn that another link had been broken
which bound the slave, he alluded to what had taken
place with respect to the Equador.—(Hear, hear.)
So long as England was the friend of the slave they
might depend upon it other nations would follow
their example.—(llear.) England had great weight
in the councils of the world, and her dvice and Ex-
ample would go a great way to do great good.
He inferred, from the assurance given in her Ma-
jesty's Speech, that a better day would soon shine
upon the world, and that that which was now dawn-
ing beyond the Alps would soon extend to these
kingdoms.—(Hear.) With regard to the health
of towns, it was hardly necessary he should refer to
the subject further than to express a hope that no
delay should be allowed to take place in bring-
ing forward some measures on the subject.—
(Hear, hear.) The cholera was already approaching
the shores of this country, and the sooner attempts
were made to arrest its progress the better.—
(Hear, hear.) There was another topic alluded to
in the Speech, which he approached with a
great sense of oppression on account of the
overwhelming interest of the subject ; he alluded
to the melancholy and dreadful events that had
lately taken place in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) To
render life desirable it must be made secure.
—(near, hear.) The State had the rig •ht
to demand an
of it account of the spilling of the blood
s meanest subject.—(C When he reflected ries of "Hear, hear.")
in Ireland, knowing°I 1
what had taken place
people of Ireland were, hhe did what the
his heart sickened
at the e must confess that
hear.) Former outrages hadcsontemplation.—(Hear,
them, but those that had later ethtainkg to extenuate
none, In former times the Ymadneen Place had
tics might lead men into-ciime, but,sihof kP°ltoi.
the Legislature, no such thing existed now. thanks
horrible. to see the gigantic figure of dal: murder raising its head in Ireland. He he":
lieved that these fearful crimes might be
checked by the law as it at present existed.
without resorting to force, but at all events life must
be preserved, and if it could not without re-
sorting to military force, it would be far better
that that should, be employed than that such
dreadful murders should be allowed with impunity.
But while it was necessary that they should have re-
course to measures of a coercive nature, it was
equally necessary that they should accompany those
measures with plans that may be well adapted for
instructing and educating, while they improve
the general condition of the people.--(Hear, hear.)
It would be the duty of the Legislature to set the
people of Ireland a moral example, and to teach them
to look to the Government of the country not
only for protection against the musket of the
assassin, butfor instruction in virtue and encouragement
in doing good also; and while it was the duty of Go-
vernment to seek out and bring the criminal to jus-
tice, it was equally their province to teach the people
that a distinction could not be drawn between that
criminal or the parties who prevented his falling into
the hands of the law. They must teach
the people that to harbour or conceal a
criminal was a great (crime, a great moral crime,
hat ought to he punished with as much severity as

the criminal himself—(Hear,: hear.) Ile had heard
with satisfaction that while. the Government were
ready to vindicate the majesty of the law,
by punishing the criminal and suppressing
outrage, they would be no less prepared to resort to
remedial measures. It was not his province to antici-
pate what those remedial measures were, or to speculate
upon the probable reception they will meet with at
the hands of the House ; but, if he mistook not, those
measures would be highly calculated to develop
the almost inexhaustible resources of the sister
kingdom. Those who had travelled through the
country, as he had done, and witnessed her vast re-
sources, must be aware of the existence of a wide field
for the exertions of the Legislature in spurring on the
people to industry and wealth. From experience
he could tell the House that great good might
be accomplished in this respect, and he should
look forward anxiously for the success of those mea-
sures which might be introduced, with the view of
developing the boundless resources, both agricultural
and commercial, of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) Whe-
ther such measures, or similar measures, would
be brought forward or not he could not
venture positively to say. He thought he
might be permitted to call upon the House not to
look to those remedial measures for any immediate
success. The blood of the Saxon was not infused
into the veins of the Englishman in a day, nor could
Ireland be regenerated in a day ; but let gene-
ration after generation continue to make untiring
efforts fcr her improvement, and the Legisla-
ture every time it met would hare cause
to congratulate itself that its exertions had been
gradually productive of improvement in the sister
kingdom. But the Legislature could only assist the
country in improving itself. It could not, by its
own resources, and with its own measures,
reform the condition of Ireland, and he hoped
the people of that unfortunate country would
readily second the efforts of Parliament. In
the belief that the objects he had dwelt upon, if
carried out, would promote the welfare of Ireland—
that ifa large, general, comprehensive, intelligent policy
were adopted, it would alone tend to the regeneration
of that unhappy country ; and believing that such
would be the policy of the House, he begged leave to
second the address.—(hear, hear.)
The SPEAKER then read the Address, which was
merely an echo of the Speech.
Mr. H. GRATTAI rose almost at the bar, and
said he deeply regretted that he was compelled on
this occasion to address the House. The Hon. Gen-
tleman, who appeared to labour under a severe cold,
and who, consequently, was not heard distinctly,
proceeded to say he had thought that the crisis which
had occurred in Ireland would have been
avoided. Nothing, he assured the House, but an
imperative sense of public duty actuated him,
and other Members from the sister kingdom
with whom he had hitherto acted, to rise.
He had heard her Majesty's gracious Speech.
Some parts of it met with his entire satis-
faction ; other portions he had heard with great
regret. He was sorry also that many parts of the
speech of the Hon. Mover and Seconder did not
call forth in him corresponding sentiments of satis-
faction, because he thought there were other means
of probing the wounds of Ireland than by means of
a speech. Some parts of the speeches, however,
he had received with satisfaction. He wished,
however, that the Honourable Gentlemen had
devised some means by which Ireland might be
extricated from the false position in which she was
placed. He wished the Hon. Seconder could have
propounded some panacea for his unhappy country,
instead of giving it a lecture upon agriculture,
as he did not think that his propositions
would afford salve to the wounds of his
unhappy country. They had full time to discuss the
question, for England was at peace, her character
stood in high estimation, and the new slave treaty,
like the 20,000,0004, had added new laurels to her
crown. France submitted, and America would not
meddle with them. They had, therefore, plenty
of time for deliberation. The Honourable
Gentleman looked forward to the day when the
union of the people of the two countries would
be stronger than at present. But he did
not think that an union of poverty was the
best, and that Ireland should come every day
here with a petition of distress. Her condition was
deplorable, and the murders they read of were hor-
rifying. The union he wished to see, and it was one
that would promote the happiness of the country,
was an union of concord, and not merely of parchment.
He saw an union of parchment but not of affection.
The amendment he now proposed was one affecting
both Catholics and Protestants. He reprobated as
much as any one the horrible crimes and murders
which had disgraced his country. He thought that
that country ought not to submit to be stigmatised
either as a nation of beggars or marauders. They
were neither one nor the other. The Lord Lieutenant
had lately stated three things—that the Poor-law bad
not succeeded ; that it had not been fully carried
into effect ; and that he trusted that Parliament
would soon adopt some efficient measures. Now,
what were those remedial measures ? Was it the
Landlord and Tenant Bill ? Was that a Bill which
could be called an efficient remedial measure ? It
was not ; it would not cause a social compact in
Ireland. The landlord and tenant question was not
a social one. There were parties in Ireland who
thought that enough had not been done to mitigate
the distress of their country. They had to
return their thanks to many individuals who had
acted nobly and liberally.—(Hear, bear.) Those
persons had won for themselves the heartfelt thanks
and gratitude of all parties of Ireland. Their names,
though they were not known, would be remembered
with feelings of gratitude.—(Laughter.) Those
whose names were known would receive the warmest
thanks of the people of that country.—(Hear, hear.)
With respect to the distress of the country, he, with
other Irish Members, was not of opinion that
sufficient had been done by the Legislature.
The poor-law would be of no service. Nu-
merous boards of guardians had refused to carry
out that law, and had in consequence been dismissed.
The property of Ireland was in a great degree gone.
He knew one nobleman who had an estate of 7,0001.
a veer ; of this sum 6,0001. went for interest, and all
that he had to live upon was 1,0001. a year, and that
'he could not collect.—(Laughter.) This would give
English Members an opinion of what the rental of
Irish property was. There was one parish in Cavan
in which the whole amount of the food
was under seizure for distress. What, then, was
the state of things ? The universal distress existed; the
poor-law could not relieve it. The whole of the food
was under distress, and yet the wretched individuals
still lived. Would not that account in some degree
for those horrible acts of assassination and crime
which had recently taken place ? He held in his hand
copies of five hundred and fifteen letters from
Roman Catholic clergymen,
in answer to letters
sent them by the Relief Committee of this
country, stating the numbers of persons in distress
in each of those parishes, the length of time which
the distress had lasted, and the means which
had been adopted to remove its pressure.
The Hon. Gentleman then read a statement in cor- ,
roboration of the observations he had made, and
having done so, asked the Members of her Majesty's
Government whether they thought that a poor-law
would do for Ireland? He thought before her Majesty's
advisers had prepared her Majesty's Speech they
would have done well to have consulted with some
Irish Members on the subject.—(Hear, hear.) If his
Noble Friend at the head of the Government went on
to govern Ireland with the same materials as he
had done he would find that he was taking a wrong
course. Men in Ireland would not now collect the
poor-rate, although they had been offered 25 per
cent. for doing so. The great cause of
misery in Ireland was its absentee landlords.
What was to be done in this state of things? Why,
let them send back the absentees; let the landed
proprietors discharge their duties, and they would
have very little of these disturbances. Why did not
Lord Palmerston go back to his estate in Donegal ?
—(Hear, and laughter.) They had heard whispers
towards the close of the last session about
selling- up the Irish landlords. Well, he had
no objection to that, nor had he any objection
to sell up the Noble Lord whom he had just named.
Why did not Lord Lansdowne go back to his estates?
He certainly had no fault to find with the Noble Lord's
agent, although he had built two-storied houses for
the cattle, which the cattle could not get up to ; but
let Lord Lansdowne go back to Ireland and do his
duty, end they would hear no snore of these shocking
complaints. No man more lamented the present
state and condition of Ireland than he did, but
if the English absentee were
allowed to con-
tinue receiving rents, and to leave his tenants
to the mercy of the assassin, liei\r saw no
who set :all
prospect of a change for the better.
despised
athnodsgeowodhogoterlantrileatlaw,
defiancetos,eor those who
o one more
inorali ty
shouldh set man
sought to establish a system which against man, class against class, tie e did; but
that they
it was not by agricultural lectures could get rid of such villians. It
only by enforcing the absentees to return
their duty that they could hope to brinaan was
do
reformation in the present state of Irelani.6 ohieod
uatr.a
Ejectment was the chief cause of the outrages in
Ireland. What had the poor man to depend upon ?
Nothing. He had seen then, women, and children
turned out of their cottages, and left to die in ditches in
a way that was disgraceful to a Christian country.
He cried shame upon such conduct. Ile trusted the
Noble Lord would carry out the law, and hoped
the Irish Members would aid him ; but there
was one law which they could not carry
out. The law of ejectment directed the
sheriff to put the landlord in possession of his
land ; and father, wife, and sickly children were
turned out of their houses. They fired the houses
to satisfy their revenge, And the Mw mit! not

The amendment having been put from the chair,
Mr. IL DRUMMOND (West Surrey) was under-
stood to say that he agreed with the Hon. • Gentleman
who had spoken on the subject of tenant right, and that
he wasfrepared with a Bill upon that question in Eng-
land. t would be presumptuous in him to offer sugges-
tions to her Majesty's Ministers for the better govern-
ment of Ireland, but still he would beg of them to have
the courage to put in force their repeated promises of
impartial justice to Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) Whatever
might be the character of the present House of Commons
—whatever of the evil surmises with regard to it might
be realised, ho was confident that there never was a
House assembled with a more firm determination in the
mind of every one of its Members to do their ditty, t
influenced by mere''o
put an end -to the system of being
words and conventionalities, and, to use a homely ex-
pression, to show that the days of "sham"
by. lie begged to ask why was the Yrotestawnetre Church
established in this country (as we understood)
an
dthewhe
but because it was accordant with
feelingsrefore
of the rnajorip, of the
Ivo the_e 3f 7
r

therefore be carried out. How could they expect
the people who were tmated • thus to do anything
else than seek to gratify their deadly revenge. Ile
wee not exeuzing the outrages which had been
perpetrated. He was merely stating the:cause
of them. A landlord had freighted out
ships to carry some of his tenants to an-
other land. They were shipwrecked, and these who
returned imagined that this had been done purposely.
He pulled down houses, and made the land into
sheep walks. A fortnight after he was shot
Another, who had made his fortune in, the wars,
made a provision in his will that his heir should,
to entitle him to receive his property, clear his
land by ejectment, and that if he did not
do so the property was to go to another, and if he
acted likewise, to a third; and if he refused that it
should go to the public. (Hear, hear.) lie
and those who acted with him complained
of the speech which the Noble Lord had
framed, because it did not suggest any remedial
measures. Now, he had stated the measures which
should be devised. Let the Government adopt them.
A deputation of the Catholic clergy had waited
upon the Lord Lieutenant, and they
were told by him that if ever there was a
country deserving relief it was Ireland, just
emerging from fearful calamity, and about to enter
upon a state of calamity which found them unpre-
pared for it. The Honourable Member then
proceeded to quote further extracts from the reply of
the Lord Lieutenant to the addresses of the Catholic
clergy in Ireland. It was the duty of the Government
under this state of circumstances to endeavour
to obtain a settlement of the verata guestio of
landlord and tenant. The English farmers were
calling out for a settlement of that question.
Would the Government still continue to refuse an
adjustment of that question ? The country looked
with deep anxiety for some measure to be
brought forward calculated to settle that question.
The English people were calling out for a tenant-
right Bitl, and would they deny it to Ireland ? Unless
security was given for the outlay on land no tenants
would be got either in England or Ireland to lay out
money in land. Let the Goiernment do justice to
the Irish people and they might depend upon
it they would hear little more of the dreadful mur-
ders that were taking place in Ireland. The
Government ought to give to the people of Ireland
persons who would look into their local affairs.
Let the House remember that they could conciliate
six millions of people by conceding a measure which
could bynopossibilityinjure the country. The Irish party
hitherto had exhibited the greatest forbearance
towards her Majesty's Government, and the least
they could do was to continue them their aid
and assistance. With these sentiments he felt
constrained to move as an amendment, that "Although
the existing poor-laws might be adequate to supply the
wants of some districts in Ireland, it did not meet the
exigencies of others, and it was therefore absolutely
necessary that immediate measures should be adopted
to prevent pestilence and famine amongst a large
number of her Majesty's Irish subjects."
Mr. ROCHE seconded the amendment. He said that,
as regarded the six counties, the agrarian crimes com-
mitted in them were even worse than what was described
by the public press. The amount of poverty and social
disorganization in Ireland was frightful; but he thought
her Majesty's Government and their supporters might
have been prepared to recommend something beyond
the vulgar expedient of the bayonet. He would say
that it was an expedient which was not only vulgar, but
futile; for, upon looking to history, they could not fail
to observe that after centuries of coercion, martial law,
and blood, Ireland was now in a worse state, socially
and physically, than she had been for several hundred
years. Any attempt to save Ireland by a poor-law was
useless. In some places that law might be carried out
fully, but in others it was impossible—in such a place,
for instance, as Skibbereen, where the valuation of the
property under the poor-law amounted to only 96,0001.
a year, or, in other words, to about one penny per
day for each man. He (Mr. Roche) had come in con-
tact with the lower orders in Ireland as much as any
man. As an agriculturist he employed as many or
more than any man in the United Kingdom, and from
his experience he had come to a conclusion far dif-
ferent from that which was usually entertained, that
the Irish people were naturally prone to crime and in-
gratitude. In his own country, where he carried on an
extensive business as an agriculturist in places far
asunder; and as a landlord of 20,000 acres of land, he
did as much as any landlord in England did. He had
promoted an extensive emigration; he had dismissed his
tenantry and punished them in every form when he
thought them worthy it; but he could say with truth,
that since he was 19 years old he had never been mo-
lested, or threatened, or interfered with—(Hear, hear)—
and this was mainly owing to the fact, that he tried to
act justly and fairly.—(Hear, hear.) He bad no bolt to
his hall door, and any boy of ten years old might push
it open at night. It had been said that there was some-
thing in Celtic blood which was prone to crime and dis-
order. But when the Irish came to England, or when
they went to America, did they shoot or assassinate ?
Was there ever a chairman or railway
.director shot ?
What was the reason that in every country in the world
the Irishman was quiet and industrious except in Ire-
land ? Why because in those countries he was treated
with justice. He thought resident landlords gene-
rally acted well and fairly. But there was al-
ways in Ireland, from tho members of the
government down to the pettiest landlord a
system of injustice which was creative of all the crime
and bad conduct in the country. As to the question of
landlord and tenant, no one who had ever written or
spoken on the subject but admitted that the existing
state of things was unsound, and ought not to be con-
tinued. That question was a far more vital one in Ire-
land than in England. In Ireland, if a poor man had
not land, or was not employed on it, he must die;
whereas, in England, there were manufactures and other
means of employment to which he might turn. The
question of tenant-right must be settled, and the tenant
should have a right to the value of the money which he
had laid out in improvement by selling the occupancy.
They (the Irish members) as a body would never con-
sent to a Coercion Bill till the promises which had been
made to the people of Ireland to inquire into the radical
causes of the evils and misfortunes from which they
suffered were male good, and everything which could
be done to redress them was effected. With regard 'to crime, he (Mr. Roche) thought there was no
reason for going beyond the present law for
its suppression ; but then that law must be
carried out efficiently, which had never been done
by the executive. The whole system for the trial
of criminal offences, both at the assizes and before the
assistant barrister, was unsound, and the business carried
on in an inefficient manner, With regard to the police,
he thought it a most incompetent body. It was said that
no one assieted in the arrest of criminals. But did the
police go in the pursuit of them ? Take the case of a
man in Tipperary of the name of Harding, who was se-
verely beaten. It was said he had a gun, and should
have gone in pursuit of the persons who maltreated him.
But why should he have taken the whole fight on him-
self, when within a mile or two, there were five or six
lazy policemen polishing their guns, who were not on
the alert. There was also great inefficiency in the man.
ner in which the Executive was conducted in Dublin.
It was composed of men who did not understand the
country, and who were idle and gossipping persons. Not
one of the heads of departments was an Irishman. The
head of the army was an Englishman. The head of the
police a Scotehman. It would he very difficult for
the Noble Lord (Lord John Russell) to govern Ireland
with advantage to the country and himself, when
ho had not the means of knowing the real state
of the country. The Right Hon. Baronet the Member
tor Tamworth was still worse off, for he had not in his
Cabinet a single Irishman; and 'in a Ministry professing
to govern the United Kingdom this omission was a
direct and palpable insult to Ireland. The Noble Lord
had certainly one Irishman in his Cabinet, and the
Lord-Lieutenant was perhaps better than any Irishman.
He (Mr. Roche) had the highest opinion of his abilities
and his desire to serve Ireland. When he learned and
knew the country, he would probably become " Ipsis
Hibernia Hibernior." Still it would be better if there
were men in the Cabinet who understood that country.
If they would settle the relations between landlords and
tenants—if they would not see the poor die—if they
would not stand by their crotchets about the poor law
—it they would take care that those should be fed
who could not feed themselves, they would see Ireland
tranquilised. He protested against a Coercion
Bill, till it was proved that the present law was pro-
perly carried out. What had ever been done by a
Coercion Bill? What would be done by an Arms' Bill,
except to disarm all respectable persons, and place them
at the mercy of every vagabond ? By a Coercion Bill
disaffection was created among well-disposed people. In
1818 an attorney in Tipperary defended 1,441 men
under the Rebellion Act, and out of them only eleven
were convicted ; and afterwards seven of the eleven
were shown to have been unjustly convicted, and were
pardoned. No doubt justice was done on the four who
were convicted. The remainder of the 1,441 were ren-
dered disaffected. The immediate remedies for Ireland
were to feed the starving, to settle the relations between
landlords and tenants, to reorganise the executive, and
to be just and fear not.
Mr. S. ADAM explained. He had expressly said
that the power of the law was sufficient to suppress
crime, but that it would be better that the bayonet
should be used than that the present misgovernment,
amounting almost to a dissolution of society, which WAI
going ou in those unhappy districts, should nut be
checked

Ti!e

An ..Pcotland ? Becanee there also it was agree-
able to-the opinions of the iirt,jority. If the Government
sent ten bishops, a thousand priests, and 40.000 bayonets,
they might establish an Episcopal Church in Scotland,
but on what principle of justice could it be done? Ye;in
might vote million after million for Ireland, but they
would be inefficacious uelcss measures were taken 85
that there should not be this dlicr4ancy between- Eng.
land, Scotland, and Ireland, which did not exist in any
other country in Europe, and which even a Roman
Catholic royal family in Saxony did not require. Justice
required that the people of Ireland should be kept from
starving, but it should be by their own labour.—(Hear,
hear.) It was true that the poor-law had hitherto proved
inoperative, but everything which had been said to-
night showed that the Irish gentlemen did not know how
to work it.
Sir G. GREY was anxious to draw the attention of
the House to the terms of the amendment to the address
which had been proposed, and which, limited as they
were, would probably • be lost sight of amidst the
grievances of Ireland, of which the debate was likely to
be so fertile. The amendment set forth that " although
the present poor-law might materially alleviate the
existing distress in some districts in Ireland,
yet, as it would be quite inadequate to do so in
others, it was absolutely necessary to devise immediate
measures to avert famine and pestilence from a large
portion of her Majesty's subjects in that country." On
the part of the Government he regretted that he must
offer the most decided opposition to the introduction of
such an amendment on the Address in answer to her
Majesty's gracious Speech from the Throne. The spirit
of this amendment was opposed to the spirit of the ob-
servations of the Hon. Gentleman who moved it, in
which he expressed a desire that a feeling of self-reli-
ance should be excited among the people, and that they
should be led away from that degrading system of de-
pendence on extraneous aid which would be promoted
by the adoption of this amendment. It was necessary,
in the great calamity which befel Ireland last year, for
the Legislature to interpose with a large and unsparing
hand to save the lives of thousands: But was there such
a perpetual necessity as to make the.recurrence of such
measures perpetual ? And because the people were
preserved from a calamity which was pressing them into
the grave last year, and which it was said might again
arise three months hence, were they to be taught not to
depend on themselves, but on the exertions of others,
and on grants of money drawn from' the taxation of the
country? It had been assumed, both in the House and
elsewhere, that the poor-law had proved inoperative. It
would, however, be admitted when the information
which was now in course of preparation was laid before
the House, that the poor-law, although in some parts
of the country it did not meet the requirements of
the aggregate poverty of Ireland, yet that its re-
ults were sufficient to gratify the expectations of
the Parliament that passed it; and the terms in
which it bad been spoken of in her Majesty's
Speech showed that it had materially assisted
in the alleviation of distress. The sum of 300,000/.
had been collected by rates before the introduction of
the present poor-law in Ireland, whereas in September
of the present year, and since the operation of the new
law, 73,0001. had been collected, and in October
121,000/., as compared with 26,000/. in the same
month last year, and in the present month there was
no doubt that the collection of October would be
exceeded. Those funds were raised from the land
in Ireland for the relief of the poor by the exertions of
parties appointed to carry the law into effect, by some
who in that House (as we understood) had expressed a
wish to carry the law into effect, and on the other hand
by paid agents, where those who had been elected for
the purpose had failed to perform their duty. The Hon.
Gentleman wbo had moved the amendment had alluded
to the boards of guardians which had been dissolved,
assuming that that had been done because they had failed
to carry the law into effect. The whole correspondence
on the subject would be laid before the House, and,
therefore, he (Sir G. Grey) would not enter upon it,
but he would say that it would be found that the Poor-
law board were justified in the course they had pursued
in placing the local administration of the law in the
hands of those whose obedience they could compel. He
believed that the law was 'working well in the great
majority of the unions. There were 130 unions in Ire-
land, and he believed that in only twenty .two aid
would be required in addition to the rates to
meet the exigencies of the people. But did it follow
that an amendment would be adopted which recom-
mended the passing of measures to avert famine
and pestilence, which, of course, meant grants
of money, without its being known what measures
would be brought forward by the Government ? A
large store of provision from last year was still in the
hands of the Go,vernment, which would be applied to
meet any extraneous distress ; and they would meet
every case of emergency, if possible, without the neces-
sity of the interference of the House by further grants
of money, although on this point they would be able to
speak more confidently hereafter. Ile trusted that by
the exertions of the landed proprietors and the people
themselves, poverty would be relieved and industry re-
vived, and that reliance would not be placed on the
Government, but on their own efforts. Ile would read
.an extract from a letter of a gentleman employed by
the Poor-law Commissioners at Bantry, one of the
unions in which the board of guardians was dissolved.
It was to the following effect :—" He hoped that no
public works, as a means of relief, would be sanctioned.
He believed that, with the assistance of the
British Association, they would get on well,
and that the landlords must give employment.
They never were in a better position to improve
their property, if they knew how to take advantage of
it. They had seen enough of temporary advances to
knew that the parties who received them were worse
off afterwards. The Government could give assist•
ance after local efforts had been made, but nut else."
Now, the spirit of the amendment which had been pro-
posed would lead the people to suppose that the Govern-
ment would do everything by grants from the Treasury
—a spirit which they could not do too much to discou-
rage.---(flear, hear.) Having thus dispozed of the
amendment, he (Sir G. Grey) must say a few words
upon a subject touched upon by the Hon. Member for
Cork (Mr. Roche)—namely, the state of crime in Ire-
land. He (Sir G. Grey) would not now enter upon these
painful details, which it would be his duty to lay before
the House on an early day, upon bringing forward the
Bill (of which ho had to-night given notice), for the pre-
vention of crime in certain parts of that country, Ile
must, however, say that he could corroborate the state
meat of the Hon. Member for Cork, that the allegations
contained in the public press in respect to crime did not
apply to all parts of Ireland. lie joined with the Hon.
Member in his denial of the assertion that all the Irish,
from the north to the south and from the east to the
west, were assassins.--(Hear, hear.) On the contrary,
her Majesty's Government believed that there weremany
parts of Ireland in which life and property were both as
safe and secure as in any other portion of the dominions
of the Crown.—(Hear.) With regard to those remedial
measures which the Hon. Member for Meath (Mr.
Grattan) and the Hon. Member for Cork (Mr. Roche)
seemed to think ought to accompany any measure of
coercion, he must observe that neither one nor the other
of those Hon. Members had done strict justice to the
Speech from the Throne; for the very passage following
that paragraph to which the amendment has been moved
states that "her Majesty views with the deepest anxiety
and interest the present condition of Ireland, and she
recommends to the consideration of Parliament mea-
sures which, with due regard to the rights of property,
may advance the social condition of the people, and tend
to the permanent improvement of that part of the
United Kingdom."—(Hear' hear.) One of those mea-
sures, ho could assure both his Hon. Friends who had
respectively moved and seconded the amendment, was
that which had relation to the question of the individual
rights of landlord and tenant—a subject which had
deeply engaged the attention of his Noble Friend the
Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland and of the Government, and
it was intended to submit a measure on that subjebt to
Parliament on an early day. At the same time, looking
at the Bill introduced last session by the lion. Member
for Rochdale (Mr. S. Crawford) he (Sir G. Grey) could
not but remark that the question was not free from dia
ficuity, and he could not nook tnat the question of per-
manency of tenure, which by the 13111 alluded to would
be given to a mere tenant for lite, could be
disposed of in a short BLii, as waned to be supposed.
To the subject, however, he repeated, the most atistioth
and careful attention had been directed, as the para
graph he had quoted from the Speech from the Tnron,
indicated.—(Hear, hear.) lie did not wish now to
anticipate the discussion of these measures in detail;
but thus much he had felt himself bound, in justice to
the Government and himself, to state, alter the obser.
vations which had fallen from the mover and seconder
of the amendment. He also must request lion. Members
to suspend the expression of any opinion upon the work-
ing of the Irish Poor-law Act until they were in the
possession of that. accurate information on the subject
which would very shortly be furnished to • the House.
Having done this, be must also express a hope that his
lion. Friends the Members for Meath and Cork would
adopt the advice tendered to them by the Hon. Member
for West Surrey (Mr. Drummond), and not press their
amendment, but concur in carrying up to the toot of the
-Throne a unanimous address in answer to the Speech
with which the new Parliament had been opened. In
conclusion, he could not but add a hope that on enter-
ing upon the business of a new Parliament everymea-
sure intended for the improvement of the condition of
Ireland would be received with the absence ofthose
motives which frequently influenced political opponents,
and that the prevailing feeling would be to give a candid
attention to measures intended to place the prosperity
and happiness of Ireland on the most permanent and
enduring basis.— (Cheers.)
Mr. J. O'CONNELL said he could not hold out to
the Right Hon. Baronet, the Home Secretary, any hope
that the Address in answer to the Speech from the
Throne would pass with unanimity; for, even it. the
amendment now moves! was got rid of as suggested, a
second amendment would be moved in relation to the
promised Coercion Bill. That was a preposition which
would necessarily awaken an angry discussion. liar
Majestv'a Government were much mistaken if they
thought the remnant of provisions in the Governti;ent
det tits would suffice to meet the distress which must
continue in some districts where the poverty
as to render it impossible to collect the poor as such
eThenoul
what hope could be entertained
that thepoorra-tleas;
meet and combat with the misery,destitution and dis-
d
ease which prevailed? The last return of the Relief
Commissioners showed that 3,000,00 of population were
receiving rations relief,
and that the minimum expense
of these rations would amount to 7,000,00 d. Let him
remind the Government of the state of alarm which ex-
isted in 1834 in England, when it was shown that a
poor-rate to the amount of 7,000,000/. would be necessary
to meet the distress which then prevailed in this portion
of the realm. Ireland was a poorer country, and what
must be the feelings awakened by the declaration that
7,000,000/. was required in the shape of a poor-rate to
keep her people from starvation? He held 111 his hand
1110 n frightful details of the exteut of the existing tus"
• •

________...„...•
tress in the western districts of Ireland, but which were
I a mere instalment of the terrible accounts with which
the House would soon be furnished by the Reman Ca-
tholic, clergy, acting in obedience tcs the circulars issued
to thtm by their, bishops. He had so frequently observed,
such an entire ignorance of Msh matters displayed iii
that iienve, which had been exhibited again that:, ven--
dog, that he telt constrained to read to the House the
information derived:
from the sources he had mentioned..
fThe Hon. Member ItulneirtnetbleprLelf;hdesaitngsrieigate
tl,epat,iti.he
Rr:.:vtu.
Ert.isFine:ed..e,
fronts three district hi Roacommon by the Rev. Michael Bre n.
rent, nave and from other lie man Catholic clergymen in diffe-
rent parts of Ireland, nil eoecuraing in thje statement
and poultry— wh;;et;
that hundreds there dying of 't 2r and disease; that
famine had done awl was (Thing its tvorh, that te re-
sources—cattle, pigs,
lit rcieulizo
enabled the ruttier to pay les rent, had all been ab-
sorbed, and that the prospects of the coming winter
were more alarmieg than the season which had passed.
They came from men who had an intimate connexion with
and knowledge of the people—men who risked theirlives ; n
attending the death-beds of their fever-strieken parish-
ioners. In the midst of this destitution, misery, and dis-
tress, what was there in the measures as yet promised
by the Government. to meet it ? These statements
concur that the country was in an infinitely worse con-
dition now than it was this time last year—that
there was the same deficit in the potato crop_that
the clothing of the people was worn out, and that they
would have to pass through the winter nuked and hungry,
and labouring under fever. This was a state of allege which
called thr the entire attention of the Government, instead
of their devoting the whole stress of the Queen'; 'speech
to their letter. en the question of the restr:ction of the
Bunk Charter. He implored the Government to give
their serious and undivided attention to the state of Ire-
land. At present he did not gather from the speech of
the Right lion. Baronet (Sir G. Grey) that they were to
have anything beyond legis!ation on the question of-the
rights of landlord and tenant. Necessary as such a
measure was, it
was insufficient to meet the relent ren-
dition of the country. Let the Gevernrraint deliberately
consider the state of Ireland, and enact measures to raise
that starving nation, and to restore 'her to permanent
prosperity.—(Hear, hear.) If the unfinished roads were
taken up they would give much employment, form
useful works, and avoid the charges for damages done
to land. Let Government adopt some such measure for
temporary relief, and they would do considerable good.
Let them charge Ireland as they liked afterwards, but
let life be saved for the moment. A statement from
Ministers of the additional relief they were prepared to
grant would produce vast good in Ireland. The letter
which the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir G. Grey) had read
was a cruel and heartless production ; and it was not
right to bring forward such a letter anonymously. The
Times would not dare to write as it does against the
people of Ireland, if it was not backed by a large party
in Erighind, who gave to that infamous, calumnious, and
felon paper the largest share of their support, and thereby
identified themselves with its outrageous attacks on the
people and the priests of Ireland. Nothing could more
directly tend to a separation between the two countries
than the infamous attacks which perpetually appeared
in that journal. He implored some of the Ministers to
give a general outline of the measures they were pre-
pared to adopt for the relief of Ireland before the meet-
ing of Parliament in February ; and if even this were
given, the Irish Members would not persist in their
amendment. He fully concurred in the statement of an
Hon. Member, that the House was bound to teach the
landlords that they had duties as well as privileges.
The Hon. Member's parallel between English and Irish
crime was decidedly to the disadvantage of the former,
in respect of the abominable character of the crimes.
On the question of coercion, he must say that great re-
paration was due to the Right Hon. Baronet opposite
(Sir R. Peel) from those who had succeeded him. Why
had they ousted him ? He had just effected a great
reform, and done much to redeem the errors of his past
conduct towards Ireland ; hut the moment he proposed a
Coercion Bill, the present Ministers turned him out, and
now proposed to do just the same thing.—(Hear, hear.)
His (Mr. O'Connell's) sympathies had long been with
the party of the present Ministers ; he had thought them
in many respects in advance of the English public ; but
he could not conceive how the Noble Lord at the head
of the Government could propose a Coercion Bill, after
his past declarations, without first attempting to relieve
the miseries of Ireland. and to cat ry out his own promise
of patting the axe to the root of the evil. Deeply did
he deplore the change that had come over the Noble
Lord. Surely there must be something in the nature
of office which wondrously altered men's sentiments.—
(Hear.) Having referred to the speech of the Noble
Lord, in 1846, with respect to a Coercion Bill, be
(Mr. O'Connell) now said to him, increase the police
and the military, and even, if necessary, send down
special commissions, to try the offenders, and puniish
them severely ; but let him not infringe upon the con-
stitution. What was there in the present state of
things, even in the accounts of this day, to justify such
infringement ? Did not the Times of this day state that
the people had turned out to assist the police in captur-
ing the murderers of Mr. Hill ? At the very moment
the people were showing such anxiety to aid the course
of justice, was it right to bring down upon them these
extraordinary powers ? Another instance of the same
kind was recorded in the county of Limerick, one of
the most disturbed counties. Why not foster such a
spirit, rather than repress it by these arbitrary pro-
ceedings ?—(Hear.) It was said, he believed falsely,
that landlords who were most humane and indulgent to
their tenantry, had been sacrificed. Look at his Heu.
Friend the Member for Cork (Mr. Roche) and his rela-
tive, who were resident in Tipperary. Were they afraid
of being shot at ? Were they obliged to keep at home?
He rejoiced to be able to adduce the Hoe. Member as a
proof of the good feeling of the tenantry in Tipperary,
which would be general, if all landlords were like the
gentlemen he had named. Mr.
Philip Ilianconi was
another instance.
Mr. B. OSBORNE—He is not resident.
Mr, O'CONNELL said ho was. Ile regretted that
his Hon. Friend who had interrupted him, and who had
recently gone into Ireland, bud got amongst a set of
bad advisers; and he feard he would become a specimen
of regular 'Tipperary landlordism. Let him beware,
for there was something not right about him. He
might also mention as good landlords in the same
county, Lord Lismore uud Mr. Shadwell. (Hear.)
Doubtless there were where ; he only wished their
number was greater. In conclusion, he must charge
Ministers with having allowed eighteen months to pass
without doing anything for the benefit of Ireland. Why
had they put the Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tam-
worth, out of office, when they had proposed nothing
to relieve Ireland, and now did the same as he had
done, by bringing forward a Coercion Bill ? Let the
House, especially the new Members, refer to " Han-
sard," and see the strong declarations the present
Ministers had made, only eighteen months ago, against
coercing Ireland ; and let the new Members beware of
giving their support to such a proposal. He must ex-
press his conviction that the people of Ireland and their
sentiments had no weight here ; there was no know-
ledge of, or sympathy with, their distresses. On the
question of coercion, he should think he was acting
with the grossest inconsistency, if, alter opposing the
measure brought forward by Sir R. Peel, he should now
support a similar proposition because made by the pre-
sent Ministers.
Sir B. HALL had hoped, that after the speech of the
Right lion. Baronet, the Secretary for the .Home De-
partment, the amendment of the Hon. and Learned
Member for Meath would have been withdrawn. He
believed that it would have been withdrawn but for the
speech of the Hon. and Learned Member who had just
sat down. He (Sir B. Hall) would ask that Hon. and
Learned Member what he had done for the people of
Ireland ?—(Hear, hear.) The English people had sent
over eight or ten millions sterling to recover their dis-
tress,
and that immense sum had been promptly and
cheerfully granted. The Hon. and Learned Member
for Kilkenny held a distinguished position among his
countrymen, and, insu ad of doing anything practical to
relieve their distress, he had sanctioned the use of lan-
guage towards them of the most it:eliminatory nature.—
(Hear, hear.) Language inciting to murder and assassie
nation had been used in his presence, and that, too, by
high dignitaries in his own church, and he had not, by
curd or gesture, reproved that language.—(Hear, hear.)
Hun. arid Learned Member had said that before
oereion Lills should hiss he would fall a victim on the
hoar of the House wet:of:mons. No wonder, then, if the
Hon. and Lea reed Member should oppose such mea-
sures, if it were only to retard his own immolation.
Let the house only see into what state Ireland hart
been brought by the agitation going on in that cuutf,i,tfret:
One Repeal itesociatiou was bad enougie batliwawsa,in4
was no less than four. lle had nu hesitation
ome of them.
that the scheme of repeal carried on by s
was
without ever coming toanything, ,
from year to year,
humbugs that had ever k.:eis
one of the great..st political
verily
believed, diet
hear.) Be •
perpetrated.—(Hear,
for the motion placed on the paper by the
had it not been
Hon. Member for Nottingham, the question of repeal
pass over this year as it had
been allow ,t 1 to
would have
in former years.—(throe hear.) But for that motion, he
(Sir B. nail) had made up his mind to put a •
question
which ,
should put repeal at once upon its merits before
the House of commons.—(Hear, hear lie believed
that with the lion. and Learned Member for Kilkenny
it was a merelcuon de parler. He remembered
to have heard a man—whom he admitted to have been one of the
greatest men of his day—(Hear, hear)—he meant the
late Hon. and Learned Member for' Cork—state that he•
would lay his head upon the block if repeal were not
carried within six months from the date of his observa-
tion. Still the same assertions were made, still the
same humbug carried on in the face of the people of
Ireland.—(Hear, hear. The Honourale
in Ireland, and quoted speeches of the Hon. and
Learned Member for Kilkenny, made in each.
enny,
or three of those speeches the lion, and Learned Member
had vowed to die on the floor of the House of Commons
before he permitted a Coercion Bill to pass for Ireland.
Ail he (Sir B. Hall) could say was, that. if such a catas-
trophe should happen, his Hon. Friend the Member for
Finsbury would be in readiness to hold the necessary
inquiry.—(Hear, and laughter.) As to coercisve32mehae-
sures, although he had voted against them d.
"tecll in ehould now, looking at the murders comemtitt
e hands art
Ire-
land every nay, be prepared to stren
;tear, hear.) Ito
Covert- an nt in every possible way.—
in Ireland—ho
believed that there was a class offs menw 0
h might do a
meant the Roman Catholic
priests—who
were so inclined.
great deal to prevent violidice anything
against
th©
lie did not mean to insinuateuse he knew that among them
priesthood as a body, he:
lary men, but he saw a sad
were a great
many
"o-enduPc: of the priests of 1847 and
contrast between the
conduct
by the priests of 1762. In
that which had been p
. lemn fast was ordered for the success of
that year a so
his Majesty s ,
' arres and the priests published an address
exhorting t
he people, in the most emphatic terms, to
the preservation of law and order. Would fo God they
could hear of such exhortations now.—(Hear, hear.)
'hey bad heard lately of pue of I% very different oltaN:
.