The Sun.
London, England, 1815-03-16 00:00:00

I.:+i j' #'TRIAL. F;'&11.L1A.)1-.E:C.1%

110t:SE OF' LOH 145; WEDNE'3IS-ky, MA,'

pet itinris w're presented from the following prices,' ot: the
• subjecit •of the' Corn reg ulations the°lfill, front the
livrshire warmer Society, by the Duke of -Montrose; to the
t'tme effect, from. Bedford L-vel, by thj of.
of Hardwieke
.the same effect, from the'towu of Limerick, h
H y the Earl of
atericic. From Westboro, in Es=ex; from Bromley, io
Kent; from St. Pant's, Shadweil,: from Fan-Higdon Without ;
from Milhourne, and,otter tilaces, by Earl Stanhope, against
the Bill. Frmn the Ward of Aid at,. fr.mi Foothwarlt; from
st: 'Berinomisey; from Dorlingtor.,. Nom' 'Pk:month.
Dock, feorn.Dthriborton, from' Farliividon Wititin—Nim se-
veral of the incorporated trades in Glasgow, Edinburgh, .:.1.4d
Perth, all,against the Bill, by Lord Grenville. Four POi—
tions from the licirougit ttf Rutherglen against the Bill, by.
tha Marry-tic of Douglas. From the 'parish of St Mandehone,
by F,arLStanhopo, against the mil. From one of the Irish
comities in, favour of tiro Bill, &c. All laid on thi.toble. •
LONDON COMMON COUNCIL PETITION.
Lord GRENVILLE stated, thr:t ke had in his hand a Peti-
tion on the sarge-•nbjett from tire Cominon- QOuncil of Lon-
don, different in its prayer from any of the rest, for it prayed
that before their Lordships proceeded to legislate on a lub-
jeet of this, importance, they 'W-•buld hear tire Petitinr,rs
against it, by their Counsel, at the bar.
The Petitior. was read ; and a fieradverting to the m ischiev-
-0113 effects which the measure was :-.alculated to produce on
the conmiercial, manufacturing,-a0 naval interests of the
country, it proved as above.
LoM GRENVILLE stated, that in order not to delay the discussion, of which' notice br.l-i111;:enl.,-„ivett for this night, he.
should propose that the cen'ideration of thi3Petitiov. :ut post-
poned till 1.6 utorruw Or Friday.
Earl STANHOPE begged leave to remind his NobleTrietad-
,
that iris moti,ot stood for to-morrow.
Lord GRENviur, said, that his Noble relation would cer-
ft,inly'have the preference ; hut in case'there were time after
4/1-e eki4ll”jull motion, there could he no objection to
their proceeding'to theccw,ideration of this petition.
The Earl Of LAUDERpA.LE sul.fgent,‘l to. tbe"Nohle 'Fori
near him (Stanhopo,). that it WouldArev;nitter to allow ,t,14,e
oimsidefation of. this Petition to precede his motion, as he
might doVive important information heaiingnpdn his su.:lsect
fiwo the debate on the Petition.
Earl STANHOPE said this was the first time he had heard
of the propriety of putting off a discussion on one subject, be-
cause a Petition was presented upon another subject., De-
pend upon it, said his Lordship, it is not my motion t14;41- the
Petitioners Oppose.
It appeared to be ag-eed that the Petition should be takeq
into consideration to-tai irrow, if the was tick for
, Earl GR,EY moved fora return of the quantity cf Grain im-
potitsd' ir.t3 the port of London in January and,ql::ebroary,
lit 1.); Alrar•trthe quantities imported into the other Ports of-.
Great, Biitair::iming the same period., Ordered.
rk 'ON 'VVILNDDWS Ow MANUFACTORIES.
• The'lliarriniS of LAN sp:m7sE stated, that there
Was another.sUbject to whidlr he was• desirous of
their Lordship's attention without delay,
.with respect (If tvlrieh many petitions would also
hav4 been presented:, if tire forms of the House
had permitted it : lie alluded to the tax
the votes on their table, they knew to be' in
conteMplation in the other liouse; on the win-
dows of Yorehouses and manufactories. 'With
the strong opie.ion which he entertained of the
iinjuStiee, inn/Miley, and inbunmanity of this ttgx,
tie • could not suffer the matter to' pass without
taking the earliest opportnnity of callitng the par-
tic►fiatat!ention of,their Lordships to the subject.
)He skt,"r:.con Vineed no 1110difiCatiOri that, could
)e:ilevised by the NoLie Earl opposite (Liverpool-),
,and the Chancellor o tine Exchequer," could rent-
der this a Made of ta::atinn which ought. to be
• resorted to.' Without', however, entering.now
ist
• length into the subjett., he should merely observe,
that'it war impolitic,' as 'light and air might :be
Considered as paet of the raw material in such ma,
nufactories ; that time tax was most unjust, because
it'lmad no connection with the opulence of those
On whom it was ptincipally to fall ; and that it
rAs inhuman, because oft he ii,jurions elect which
it must.have.on the health c.f those eMpl9yed
the manufactories.. It was well known that at best
.the crowding togetlr6r so large a body of persons
as pecesz-mary in many manufactories, was far
front being favourable to health ; brit the evil
would be increased tenfold if the regulations Fri
this subject,-'proposed in the CournoimS, were to
Pass into a law. ,-111 e hoped the -Noble Earl 'void-
the Chancellor of tine Exchequer would reconSi-.
tier that part of their system of- `taxation, and feel
it consistent with their duty and 'inclination to
abandon this intcrference with tile light and air
iu the::.e manufactories: -Being himself connected
with a mannfacturing county, he comma speak
tin this point with the greater Confidence. -To
tine remainder of the ta,:es, irl as far as they af-
fected those articles which people would have nail
option whetber.to use or ,not, hezaw no objection..
He might have somednubt as tri..tlfey productive-
ness but he had 110 objeilloil to them in any
other pant of view. But ttir this tax on tine win-
dow's of warehouses and man ufaCtories, he was de-
cidedly adverse, and he could not help stating, at
this_ early opportunity, tinat in case the measure
tame to that• House it meet vith his 'de-
cided oppositiop. ••
The Earl of LtvERPooL, in answer to a que3-
tioa from Lord Grenville, stated, that tse Bank
Restriction Bill stood for committal to-morrow ;
bunt Inc bad no objection to agree to any-arrange-
ment with respect to its progres -that might be
convenient for their Lordships.
•

THE C0a...7'
ylic Earl of LIVERPOO.I. rose to moye the Se-
e Gild reading,- which he prefaced with ati able,
ai:gunrentativef anti eloquent speech of coirsidera-
hie leng,th.' The ineasttre, of which he was_ahout
to propose the sett-rid rcatlin, was one that he
bad most attentively considered during the course
of the_ three last years ; and,cpuld conscientiously
add; without the "least particle'. of prejudice; for
if ever their existed a question, either with refe-
rence to the npinions•of persons with ‘vlrotri lie
was,in the habit of agreeing— on most topics, or
with reference to his own situation; on whicli he
was fully divested of all prejudice, it was the very
t On which he had that night the honour
to address their Lordships... The first view of this
,very ipiportant subject, which naturally presoitcd,
itself, was the actual situation of the country,
•uith respect to that, perhaps, most importaot Of
all considerations, its agriculture. In that view,
this It-wintry was different from manY-t)thers.
mailer states, both ancient and modern, and
among the latter, the Republics of Holland, Ve7
nice,:andGenoa, a different line of policy was
wisely adopted ; they depended for their supply of
grain imporations from lar-er countries,- as:
it was impossible that small States could lOok to
agrictriture'ils a means of wealth, or even supply
theirdomestic, consumption ; they therefore de-
pended upon connuere and mi:nufactures as their
roidy sonrce'of; and :iggrantlizement. gitt
very dilfe'rent was the case with retibee; to :,onn-
triesOr great territorial extent, and having n po-.
of tut, twelyr; fifteL•4l,..o: twenr.v:p.:ll:ens

to supply, Such counf;ries could, not p.rn-,sibly ire
dependent noon others!for an, article of ''`he C„rs't
necessity, withnut• the greatest possible
This count--; shonld he, not only frank cirFula-
stances, but from policy,' not only a great coma
mercial, but a great agl,icultural country, and the:
principles of its lagislatidn.slionld.4e with a vieW
to the interests of both. _►'ln dire should, on this
account, be sacrificed to the other. Ile tvould.
. .
come now to thegeneral principle of the measure.
Wit'', 'respect to the idea that .every thing should'be
left to 'find i.at own level, if 'that. principle could
apply equally to all branches of commerce,it
perhaps,, be-ea desideratum in policy. But they
were to con,ider;',,that...in. legislating for Great
Britain and they Were not now legialat-
ing de,novo ; the existing state of things, the not
.tine and effect of.the numerous legislative enact-
ments already to tutee and Operation, aricl. they
tverecalletl- upon t 6 'apply the 'saint. principle of
legislation,. as 'far it could bedone, to all. Almost
every branch of their, domestic commerce and ma-
nufacture was More of )Peas protected by hw, as
their cottons, silks, woollen, iron, and various
other branches, against loreign competition. What
vrere•the effect,,bat to encourage' the employment
of capital and ...the exertions of indAstry id all
their branclres ; therefore, with respect to those
branches,, wihicTa„kere not so protected, they bdt
disecuraged theirs ; (Kear, hear !) antl iu cburse,
if it protected -nun .tractirre rand not
.agrketilture,
what taus it but to discourage'agviculture ? Jr. was
a envious ..circumstance t!rat. the' • inqortatiou of
cattle was ;prohibited, and yet tiiey withheld pro-
: tection to the growth of grAr. -With regard to a
tle consideration of the stibject, they would haye
to look. back to. what the policy of the country
Was for'.- near a century anterior to rile year 1766.
In- that• interv4l4 the country not only grew
ehougl-k of corn for: its consumption, but was
even an 'exporting' Notwithstanding
that the country was prog-ressively increasing in
wealth, tha-oufactures, couhherce, and popyla-
tiana lle must say, then, that if, during a pc.
agriculture so greatly flourished,
the cumuli' was. 30 hatch improving, at the- some
tine, in every other respect,' similar consequen-
ces were again td. be confidently expected. With
respect to the'partienkar measure tinder consi;kra-
tion, and which 'Went -to, extend somewhat of a
due ensouragement and protection to Agriculture,
he was thoroughly 'oOnvintard nbat through its
operation -and effects, he 'price of liv*ead would
becom,elove,r than it would if no such Measure
was oidnpteda it would lnive also athe most Salu-
tary effect, of briaging biead to rat equal and
steady price,, wli:ell-would not only olio. to benefir
the consumer, but to improve the ,noral state of
soviety---(llear, hear',)-.-because iti its preseit
state, a duct uat ion froth one extreme to the other,
may frequently be attenda'd with consequeneea tire
most injurious. Individnal interest :was the best
security for an eventnal,atletpthte, and regular still-
ply of so necessary an 'article 5' awl it was essen..;
Oaf thertsi-Pre that at,titie protection should: be ex-
tended to. agriculture, ,pr they inevitably should
discourage In the year 1791, an
"important
alteration wa's made in the Corn Liws, with, re-
spect to the importation, and in 1801,, another-L
to the, laSt, when a Member of their Lordships'
lionse, "he gave the be.,t attention and support in
his power ; hut thethell situation of Ireland, and
tote free .intereourse between dl4r countries,: had
materially alteNd the "tqueatiOit froitiAvliat it was
nn tke.former .And front‘theexperienee
they had since o Ireland; he Inti'st .1!), that the
most beneficial cOnS'eiplences were to be expected
to the United li.ingdom, front a due attention
eyeing paid to, the improvement of agriculture in
"(Elea)', hear !). And .the question in
that view came to this', whether they, v.toulti sa-
eritiee, a certain to an uncertain- source of supplyn?
!) Neither could the measure, as argued-
the other night, have the effect or lowering the
rents in England,• and raising theit) in -Ireland;
but it would operate most beneficially to the
consumers. in both countries, and- tend, upon the
whole, to.inalaL, t II MAY more certain ; amid these'
he Ono:in-fat -t-Ii be the grca! and primary considera-.
tioo. .IVlach had been said upon a' former night,
upon the point (affixing the price at SOs. and the
autlrnrity and sentiments amoug the .evidence
largely referred to. In such cases-it was impos-
.tihle it could be otherwise ; persons coming front
different parts of the country thought ond inferred
differsintly on these topics ; they even differed up-.
ore the simple point of the protection proper to be
given per nere. These tzradations .of opinion.
were generally-, between 725. and 955. 'l3nt for
the la,_: ten years, the average price ..- as-above 90s.
and for the last twenty years abdte SO'• the
so much objectdd was .t-herefore COnsi-
der-air:or lower that: the 'average of the last ten
years, anti darin'g that-Ty:int' the. price of bread
was ne,ter so high, as to he sensibly felt. 13-y the
best calculations he had seen, and 1.1.0111 his'own
views of the snbjett, the price (when at 805.),0f
the quarter!: loaf ought to be about Is. 'or'
No one part of the Kingdom should.be protected
at the expellee of the other ; this was for the be- I
uctit of the consumers in both, and for protecting
the who-le against the ihjulgions effects of tOreign
riniportatioo—,(l-lear !) But Noble Lords. oppo-
site seemed to consider that SOs. still. would be a'
minimum price; butt this rate was not supported
by one (brie of; either fact or argtonent.• Prom
.the experience they. had alieady.upon .the su'iject
—from what had, been proved with respecr to
Ireland—from the Salutary effeets which th;e ope-
ration of the present measure must have in- its io-
,
citement toan;rieu!tural, exertions,- when
duals wereprotected against 'tc-reign competition,
it may-be regar'ded as.wore likely to prove annaxi-
mut!! than a inioinolin price. This could be borne •
cart. by a view Of theprices, with reference to the
importation for the three years preceding 1791.
lir/792, it was 421.7-10 s. under the importation
price; in 1793, tISI. Is. ; in '1794, 51/. es., and it
never rose to the importation price till 1795,
which hods a'-vear ol
....eat scarcity ; from those
and soeratio;senlient calculations, his Lordship'
ihewed, that the importation priCe was in
1,4-/ respect a minimurn./ u fat' feoin this it
‘o's his f:rtn bv'imbieing. the Cl'tploy.
went ovcapitl. in che awiculturailine, it ~vouhl •
in the event celisidarablyloWer the p: ice N. .
With respeet to-theimport:lot co6ictertitin of. thea
supposed clieat; of tile meWsure opou the inarlo-
41ctui:,t!s- he flan:: observe, that

dil',ao-1 (!c.:11:1).; so mech upon the ehexple:s
of pr•)visions certain or lief'.eon-iiieraliOns.
all-grealcotrfitiies;wherestnaitufaturerswere
t;thlished, the peice-nf hb:tur was.hi:4•ll 4. it 'was •'')
the'capitale and to the credit of t: that she
principally iudelitetT--r;;)rher inanefe_cturing-
pergy.. TbiecheapiteSS of fad, and.the employ-
ment of macbinerf;Were the n.ext
an(l it woulirbe thlet•in those park- 'where),
mantrfactiners were estahlisknl evi;h: the ''.greatest!.
success, that•the prices Of-provisions were high
it wasAlion
:the whole, much, more to the coin.%
fort and adyantage of the lehourer, hat his eiagcs',
shimild be high, 'than that provh,ionS'-shotild be
cheap.' in Franee; veheich had Ikea Said, either
,reference-to ltS ininnfacturesnr its agrichlturee
tke.adyance in :the .pries s. of Corn for a number of
yeArs,W':ere nearly in the'rsaine proportion aS.
im
klngland 41r0'this-:liis,l4ordt`hip illustrated by va-
riohs,caicidatiOnS. 'The next.cObSider.niieni %Vas,.
the effect which the acalsore;would'have with re
. spect
,to the Ott:il:LW' the Metropolis, and ter.'
tainlY none could lie. iii re important. But, evit‘b.
respect to its stip.ply, Loudon,
,vehatever mayEie
s4iif; 16(1 several advantages over any of the pro-
viuciartowns; At the same time, the prices were
frequently highor,, that` iii lt, arise from the:
operation of the aslize, froin the Wheat gene-.
rally consumed being of a finer or better cflutlitt:
Blit; On the other had, as would appear from'
papers upon the,'table, the prices were siften "'owe;
in London ; it en joyed.gt.eat •adOeetages'also
its port, with respect to the httportations, and b;ce,
noi.trscontemlit could not be f4irly said, that t',e
Metropolis would be put to a'ny spechil inconys'2-
ni-enee frOrn the operation of the inolesed
Drawing towards hio conclttsion, the Noble 12,e:1
argued with great force :-/end effect, that in It con-
sideration of such 'itiel:itnportance, as that Which
constiti.ned so great a portion of the food of ttie
1)0'01)14..4 tYas essentially necessary the country
sill: mkt not deitend upon the prt2carious anti uncer-
tain resource Of foreign importation for H •
That by affording a due protection and encourage-
ment. to, Agricult:ot!, the necessity of shell are=
currence w -Add be soon done a‘Vily ; that the juices
of bread would eventually become cheaper, and.
in tit'a,t linporteni respect the interests of the con-
sumer Would he itOterialiy benefited. It was to
its domestic resim.tees the country WM chiefly to
look for the lomulation of her grandear, proqpe:-
rity, aggrandizengent, and happinesi. To these
her foreign and' Colonial tomMeree bore but it
slight comparison, as the event or the loss of
oar North American Colorises clearly evinced,
which, instead of detracting her general 'interests,
the country was seen to rise to ii still higher de-
gree of power, glory, vigour, Wealth, and re-
sctitrees, and to the effectuation of those means
which enabled her subsequently to supourt It con-
test of unequalled length, exertion, and-expendi-
ture:::' Under all these impresnions and convic-
tion, wtieli• he felt most powerfully, he would
Move that: the Bill now before their Lordships be
rezi'd a'seemed time. •
The Earl of CARLISLF: was ready to admit; that
this cOuntry ought to have its NH scope of trade,
and if we were to derive an adVantage from the
import:air:it ci corn, he' would lather it were de-
rived froinlr_daed.;than from foreigners, but not-
withstanding what had fallen Iron) the Noble Earl
opposite,die apprehended' that the price of labour
would not heat fill adequate ti) the price of corn.
If the labduring part`of society must be to-
tally rained and undone; and :their services to.the
enuninirity;Woubl be wholly lost for ever. It was
therefore' the- alley of the House to see its way,
ar:l ascertain' wliether this' country could he re-
lieved or not by the operation Of toe measure.
!'or his own part, lie bad great doubts of its ex-
.pediefiey and utility, or whether it was demand-
ed by the greater part of the people. If it kept •
.the price of corn, it would injure the Mann-
factures of the coutitty, by preventing the manu-
facturers froth- Speculating. On his own estates
in Yorkshire, he hail scarcely heard any one te-
nant express himself in fa-Your of the Bill, which
would prove to be partieularlylojurious to the
woollen trade.. 'His Lotdship concluded with ex-
pressing himself:in favour of giving all due co-
,couragement to irviand; but on the whole, he wes
adec.:Se' to the .
Lord FoterEscbc thought that the second reed-
ing ought' fri be del: eyed: The great number of
tietitions flint been presented, the respectful
terms' in which they }rid been couched, and the
peace, I.le and er.emplaty manner in which the
aVvait&tl the rc:".mit, determined 14s
mind on the subject. :
Lord REztvltA,E, could not stiffer himself to be
restrained from doing 'his duty • by delivering his
fun opinion upon subject, which-- he wouo rtu
'with as lintel) siiicerity as tke Noble earl-had done.
But ‘vh en the I\_7,oble Earl had declared that this was
not tliC inSulated opinion of a few individuals, beA
that Whieh was to be adopted by the Le;islature
the eountly, as properto receive their irifluence, lie
'regrctt'dd that -the time of The Noble Earl had not
permitted biro satiSfaCtorily and hilly to review•thb
o)Tounds of the subject, notch less•to obtain all tha
,t
additional evidence t.eeessary in a matter of SUall
vast importance. For if hei (Lord -Grenville) had
bufore entertained any doubts of 'the impolicy of
the measure., either from wliat he had heard within
'Or without the walls of ' that House, these wcre
'completely removed by the speCch of the Noble
Whose grounds,--wefe,• in his mind, utterly
inadequate to'suppott sueli a tneasnre. He thought
that qty.man, who iidd.AoOlted to the Reports of.
the Counnittees of lastc-year;`as well as to the in:-
nemas and'.able publicatior,-; that had lately .
neared, -would not be of Opinion that it wets right
to protect any one class in opposition to another ; -
but if the rittilerS coirld relieved: 'from the
.distress that waS.- pressing .upon them, without
raying a hurthen on'e any other person, then
he would .agree• that the measure was Lighl2i
praiseworthy. He was rejoiced,boe.,ever, to helm
it now. finthorltatively adinitted, that there w•as
no intention to COneitit
_interesis„of one
e2aSS!to the prejudice (f any other. He should
therefore 'only argue the cfnestion On tie general
ground of its •polie, 'as. to whet I:, inure
antler the present cir&ntristances; he-most bitchy to
produce. geeates.;.betteLit to :the cc lii r."-
-pew to cbti,i,'„pillgs ;!a-i.ll.littri!itti of • .(2,(;1•12-.- The
Eirt had (');•bis'erved neanKactin•er.: wet* _