The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-19 00:00:00

n • s
LOON DOS',
commerce, and the Parliament of the oounfo woula move for the papers ;,f which he had given notice, e, seeereesseee—oeres elellesseSammeleeset
o -Pecame move I
free a iid unshaekled. No courory in the voted more fhautieheil than illustrative ef thie case.
did 'relent' durine the short existence of that. freedom of Oat. , The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER justified the
and freedom of Parliament. Her tradeond maeofac'ere.,Moreasd removal of Ale. elara frees the office of Registrar of Benefit I
ab-erteeian direinishees and the whole condition of •tghrealpif,y7,:lle
:,`,Niioacri:t,i,l a '
ehreitlNemotailne.oliorgdreawtasem4;traiekie)ene.in seating that
otinialyt
' the office for six months, and he (the Chancellor of the Exche- i
held
strewed manifest symptoms cf improvement. This
state of things lasted up to the time of the union, but after
that act was consummated, trade began to decline. Menefee- yeller) had acted upon what was the admitted rule, namely, that
ruses gradually dropped until they became almost extinct, and the' person holding the office should change with the Attorney- i
id;i d furat
u
by slow depress the country became miserably impoverished, . Genetrasccela;LniidngtheLosradm-eAdrvuoiceatealsoaphpoeildnteidn
tShe"tilnadn
and her population reduced to a state of almost hopeless star- every
vation. All this was owing to the absenteeism produced by the who fillet.d the office of registrar. The Right Hon. Baronet
union, and in this state would Ireland remain until Parliament then proceeded to read the names of the Attorneys-General
took steps to diminish that evil. English capitalists did not ob- ! for Ireland for a series of years, and the appointments which
jest to investing their money in some of the most disturbed parts ,! each had nu ale to the offiee of registrar. He did not under-
of South America, but nothing would induce them to send it I stand that the commissioners had at all exceeded their duty.
to Ireland, and the reason why they would not was ! He had consulted the Lord-Advocate of Scotland and the At-
simple and just. They knew very well that it was im- torney-General of Ireland, and had been given to understand
possible to compete with English manufactures in England, ; by those eminent legal authorities that there was not any-
and where was the use of their starting works and establish- thing in the construction of the Act to justify
merits in Ireland when there were no customers to but' the Mr. Mara's complaint. Neither did he zee that
goods they might manufacture? These were positive facts, there was anything in the construction of the Act
and any attempts of the manufacturers in that country, which l to justify the impression that there had been injustice
Hen-
had been been made, had failed in consequence of the powerful op. 'flitted in
.ehe displacement of Mr. Mara. The Right Hen.
position of English houses. Those persons were able to give Gentleman then read an extract from the Act, to show the
credit to their customers, and the Irish manufacturers having provisions which affected this particular ease. If Mr. Mara
no capital to fall back upon, nor any home market to take off had any reason to complain of the deficiency of his salary, he
their produce, had not, of course, been able to compete with ought to have asked for more. It was always customary, on
them in the markets. It was to meet these circumstances that an' change of the Attorney-General in Ireland, for the
the lion. Member for Limerick had brought forward his motion officials under him to be changed elm, and there was not one
for taxing Irish absentees. It had, however, been said that l word in the Act, that he could discover, to justify the sup-
these Irish absentees were good and excellent landlords, iposition that the system would be altered. With respect to
Why, then, if they were such good landlords, that was a strong , the papers fur which the Noble Lord had asked, he had seen
reason who they should go over to Ireland to reside, it could some parties on behalf off Mr. Mara,: and ;though he did not
not be supposed that by their going over to that country they see that they could serve any purpo,e, he should have no objec-
would become bad landlords, or ;hat they would change ski tion to grant them.
and sun by going there. The lion. Member then went on to 1 Mr. GOULBURN could not see that there 'was sufficient
repeat the statements which he had made on a previous even- reason made out for thel dismissal of Mr. Mara, for the
ing respecting the revenue of Ireland, and proceeded to show, Right Honourable Baronet must know that the real ob-
from the details of various returns made to the House, that ject for the attainmii.t of which this Act was passed,
the remittances from the Irish to the British Exchequer, ex. was to obviate the inconvenience of ebanging the under officials
ceeded, by upwards of 9.000,0001. per annum, the in the office of the Attorney-General. Then the Right Hon.
amount reitatted from the British to the Irish Exchequer , Baronet appeared to rely. and laid great stress on, the construe-
and cased upon the Horse to insist upon those persons who tion of the Act of Parliament ; certainly, when there was the
were drawing their rents from Irish property to return to opinion of so many lawyers, liexlid not feel himself qualified to
Ireland, at least, to spend a portion of their incomes in that give an opinion ; but when he looked to the fact to which he
eousitry, and by so doing tend to ameliorate the condition of hail just alluded, there was, in his opinion, sufficient reason to
the people, and draw forth the resew"' of that impoverished believe that this Act was not intended to affect
suecc an indi-
country. vidual as Mr Mara. It WU admitted that an interval must
Lord CASTLEREAGH thought that at all events no elapse between the retirement of one, and the appointment of
charge could be brought against the Irish Members for an another Attorney-General. Now, during than interval, Mr.
unwillingness to make sacrifices, in order to meet the present Mara had acted as the certifier under the Act, and it was
distressing emergency of Ireland, but, at the same time, as an highly important that the acts of that gentleman should be con-
Irish Member, he must protest against any precedent being set firmed and adm tied as legal.
by a legislative measure of imposing conditions upon the After a few words from the CHANCELLOR of the EX-
possession of property, such as would be imposed if the CHEQUER in explanation, the motion was then agreed to.
motion of the Hon. Member for Limerick were acceeded to. GREECE.
Should the proposed poor.law measure he carried into opera- Lord JOHN MANNERS postponed his motion on the
Lion, there would be no doubt but that all the property in subject of Greece till after Ea ter.
Ireland would bear its portion to the support of the country, RAJA OF SATTARA.
but he did not think it would be fair, if, in addition to the. Mr. HUME then rose to move for copies of a dispatch
charges which would be laid upon property by that measure, from the Secret Committee of the Court of Directors of the
another tax were to be levied upon the absentees themselves. East India Company to the Right Hon. the Governor-General
There seemed to be a very general feeling in tha House agaiisst of India, respecting the Ex- Raja of Sattara, dated the 24th
Irish landlords as a bolly, which he did not think they day of March, 184 ti ; and a copy of the reply of the Right
deserved, the Hight Hon. Member for Marylebone had Hon. the Governor- iceneral of India to that dispatch ; tog,
exerted all the stores of his eloquence against that body, ther with copies of the several documents referred to in that
He (Lord Castlereagh) was happy to see that the Right Hon, reply, or connected with it; and of any other letters which
Member had received the reward of his exertions, in the shape have been addressed by the present Governor-General of India
of a vote of thanks from the parochial vestry of Marylebone, to the Court of Directors of the East India Company, relating
and he had no doubt that the Right Hon. Baronet would be to the case of the Ex-Raja of Satara, from the period of his
pretty secure at the ensuing election. - (Laughter.) Lord-hip's arrival to the present time ; also copies of the
Colonel RAWDON thought that this motion did not go minutes of dissent of members of the Court of Directors
far enough. He thought that the resolution of the Hon. which have been recorded by any member of that Court, and
Member for Limerick did not go far enough, for the evil of not hitherto published, relating to the case of the Ex-Raja
absenteeism was not confined to the non-expenditure of of Sattara, from the :10th of April, 1849, to the present time,
money. The absence of that moral influence which the Sir J. C. HOBI'IOUSE wished, as a favour, that his lion.
presence of the landed proprietary would have in improving Friend would postpone his motion till a future day.
the social mad moral condition of the people was one of its worst Mr. HUME said he could not accede to the request of the
consequences. He thought that the House had a perfect Hon. Member. The Right Hon. Gentleman had had two
right to task those who had so greatly abandoned these duties. weeks to consider the motion, and he could not consent to
A great moral influence would be exercised by the landed pro- postpone it any longer. The rtaja of Sattara's conduct had
prietors of Ireland if they were in that country to give their b 'en impugned in connexion with the East India Company,
advice and assistance as grand jurors, and to fulfil the various and a t ('quest had been sent out to Lord Hardinge, the Gover-
other duties which devolved upon them. Their presence would nor-General. requesting him to make a report upon the sub-
also have the effect of greatly mitigating the horrors of the ject. The Noble Lord accordingly made a report, and that
distress which at present existed, and from a letter which he report had LOW been in the hands of the Government seven or
lately received from Armagh, he feared the statement that had eight months. If the document had been discreditable to the
been made with reference to the small holdings is that county Raja it would have been published, and he thought it nothing
were very erroneous. but right that it should be laid-before the public if it contained
Mr. FITZGERALD thought that instead of a tax of 10 per any thing to his credit.
cent., a tax of 50 per cent, would not be too much to impose. 'Jr. WILLIAMS seconded the motion.
on those who had so greatly abandoned their duty. He was Sir J. C. HOBHOUSE said it was an unending task at
very much surprised at the Hon. Member below him Alder- any time for any Member of the Government to refuse the
man Humphery) stating that the absentee proprietors spent production of papers. At the same time, he thought the
more money in Ireland in proportion to their rental than the House would agree with him that those papers ought not to be
resident proprietors; but with all deference to the Hon. Gen- produced. His Hon. Friend was wrong in his description of
tleman, he very much doubted the correctness of that assertion. these papers ; but, nevertheless, as a general proposition, he
He had no doubt from the statement so eloquently made by did not think it was proper that the private correspondence be.
the Hon. Gentleman that the London Society had expended a tee en the Governor-General of India and his subordinates
large amount of money on their property, hut he did not think should be produced to the House. But, independently of
that tNat could be said of many other absentee proprietors. these considerations, there was a fact in connexion with these
Mr. R. YORKE rose amidst cries of " Divide." He said papers, which ought to nesative their production. Copies of
he should be exceedingly brief in what he had to say. He these confieential dispatches and correspondence had, some ,
wished to ask the el- use two questions; first, how, in pressing way or other, found their way to England. His Honour- ,
this question of absenteeism, would they define? and, se- able Friend had shown him ae envelope, which con-
condly, how, in pressing such a tax would they reconcile it vinced him of this, and he thought was a sufficient reason ,
with the great constitutional question of an invasion upon per- why the papers should net be hastily produced.
sonal liberty? If they would answer these questions as shortly He would ask the House whether they would sanction that ,
as he had put them, he should vote for the motion.—(Cheers which was evidently a fraud or breach of trust, and a perjury on ,
and laughter.) the part of the persons employed. If such proceedings were
Mr. W .
V. ST OAP T did net think that a 10'. per cent. to be sanctioned, the Government of India, and not only that,
tax would be sufficient to induce the owners of property to re. but all the other branches of the Government would be unable
side in Ireland. He should, however, vote for the motion. to carry on their proceedings. It was a most shameful tran-
Mr. S. CRAWFORD agreed in the general principles section, and that was the reason the parties had not cared to
brought forward by the Hon. Gentleman the Member for make the matter public ; they knew that they would be liable
Kilkenny (Mr. J. O'Connell), but found great difficulty in to be asked how they obtained possession of the papers.and
saying that he should vote for the motion before that was a question which they knew they could not wekl.
t.he House. He considered that whatever legislation answer. He would only say, that had not such
they took on the subject should not be confined solely to Ire- a course of nefarious conduct been pursued, he would have hail
land, but should apply to the whole nation.—( Hear.) If they no objection to produce the papers. As it was, however, h.
taxed Irish proprietors who did not reside in their country, would most positively refuse to produce them, and called uon
they must decide, on the same principle, that an English the House to support him in the resolution to which he had ,
landlord, who spent his income in Ireland should be taxed arrived.
likewise. He, therefore, felt great difficulty in giving his sup- Mr. WILLIAMS thought that the papers ought to be pre-
port to a proposition which proposed to lay a tax upon the pro- duced, in justice to the Raja of Sattara.
prietors of land in one country which was not to be levied Mr. BRIGHT wiis well aware that there were many meant
on proprietors in this country, who resided tit' their property or existing in India by which copies of the correspondence of the
out of the country. The evidence which had been adduced on officials of the Government could be obtained ; and he thought
the subject of abs.enteeisee proved that many of the it rather hard that because some dishonesty or irregularity
absentee landlords of Ireland utterly neglected their estates; had taken place in obtaining copies of the correspondence, that
but he was acquain'ed with instances in which the estates of therefore, the official returns should be refused; especial), as
non-resident proprietors were well cultivated, well managed, they might tend to justify the character of the dett.roned
and on which the poor found employment, but no man ought Raja.
to neglect his duty in Ireland, and reside in a distant part of it, Sir EDWARD COLEBROOK was of opinion that they
as well as in En eland. He was in favour of the lan lord- of should have full information on this subject, unless the Right
Ireland being compeer," to support their own poor, but he was Hon. Gentleman thought that injury would result to the Govern-
afraid the proposition would not have that effect ; and besides, ment, by the production of the paper. He had not given any
would be fraught with evil. lie hoped, therefore his Hon. sufficient reason for their refusal.
Friend would not press the motion to a d.vision. Sir. AGLIONBY thought they were losing time in that
Mr. S. O'BRIEN explained, that what he stated respecting discussion, and as the Right Honourable Gentleman had not
the estates of the Irish Society was not derived from personal objected to the production of the papers, and had only refuse
inspection, but from the evidence which had been published them on account of the precedent this would establish; he
with respect, to them. He believed, however, that their estates hoped the Hon. Member for Montrose would rest satisfied at
were well managed. In mentioning the name of Lorri Port- present, and had no doubt they would be produced on a future
arlington and other proprietors of Ireland, he disclaimed hay- ocsasion.
ing introduced them for the purpose of drawing any invidious Mr. B. ESCOTT. thought that the papers should not be
distinctions between them and other proprietors He felt it refused, even if fraud had been committed in procuring tht
his duty to take the sense of the House on the motion which he papers, as it was necessary that the House should have the
fullest information on the subject--that it might have an op-
bad proposed.
portunity of pronouncing a entreat judgment on the case of the
The House then divided, when there appeared,
For th 19 unfortunate Prince to whom they referred.
Asa motion
st it
Majority...
SMITHFIELD MARKET. assent to this motion it would give its sanction to what was a
Mr. 0. GORE moved for a Select Committee to inquire most objectionable and dishonourable proceeding with regard
into the necessity for the removal of Smithfield Market, as a to procuring these documents. tie thought, therefore, that he
nuisance, in the centre of the British metropolis, to some ap- was quite right in refusing them, and he should not have inti-
propriate site. comprising an area of not less than 12 acres, mated that he would produce them on a future occasion, as this
and the establishment of abbatoirs in the vicinity of London. would be holding nut an eneourasement to such practices.
He had obtained the consent of all the persons whose interest Dr. 130'WHING said the Raja had nothing to do with the
would he affected. surreptitious way in which the papers had been obtained, and
Lord MORI'ETH said that there was room for great im- therefore he trusted his cause would not suffer from it. lie
provement. for he believed that there remained undeniable had known instances in which the House had printed papers
grounds of complaint. The safety of life was much endan • obtained in such a way.
gered, as was also the health of the inhabitants. He was After a few words from Lord PALMERSTON,
very glad that the interested parties did not oppose the inquiry, Mr. lIUME said he considered that the papers might have
and he could assure the Hon. Member that there was still a been abstracted from a sense of justice of the claim of the Raja-
lees intention on the pate of the Government to throw any ob- ( Oh, oh.) He had endeavoured to bring the subject before the
stacle in his way. He hoped a due weight would be given in House for some time past; but he had not hid an opportunity
the Committee to the interest of the parties concerned. of doing so until that evening, and he hoped now the producs
Mr. S. O'BRIEN said he was very glad that his Hon. tion of the papers would not be delayed on the ground of eti.
Friend had pursued the course which he had done ; and as he quette. He, however, had no objection to withdraw that part
had not entered into the question, he would follow the example of the motion to which the Hon. -Baronet objected.
set him. He only hoped that a fair Committee would be ap- The motion so amended w. s then agreed to.
pointed. CORPOR PUNISHIIENT IN THE NAVY.
Mr. WAKLEY was rejoiced that the Government did Mr. HUNIE moved for a return of the number of persons
not not oppose the motion, for he considered it most necessary flogged in the British navy in each of the years 1845 and 1846,
that some inquiry should be made. He was requested to op • specifying the name of the ship, the offence, the sentence, and
pose the motion, but after what had been stated, he could not the number of lashes inflicted; and also for an abstract of the
think of doing so. total number of corporal punishMents in the navy, and the total
Mr. PROT HEROE said that some arrangement should be number of lashes inflicted, in each year, up to the 31st day of
made respecting the days upon which fairs were held. Under December, 1846.
the present system, the drovers were not able to attend re • Admiral BOWLES had no objection to the production of
ligious worship upon Sundays, in consequence of the Mun- papers which had reference to the infliction of cor-
day's fair. poral punishment in the navy, and the circumstances
Mr. HUaIPHERYS said that if the market was removed, under which the different punishments were inflicted.
the cattle, in future, would not be striven through London. He should rejoice when the hour would arrive that would
Mr. HENLEY wished the Government to take the matter enable them to abolish eorperal punishment altogether. All
entirely int-, their own hands. If it was left in those of a private that he objected to was, the giving the names of the vessels, as
Member they would have only some half and half measure. in many instances the commanders were compelled to resort to
Sir B. HALL thanked his Hon. Friend for bringing forward corporal punishment to preserve subordinatien. Neither had
the question, and he hoped the interest of the inhabitants they any opportunities to inflict secondary punishments such as
would be studied by the committee. the army had, by prisons and drills, for they had seldom room to
Mr. ORMSBY -GORE said that he could assure the Noble imprison morethan threemen. There always existed some kind of
Lord that he would take the interests of all parties into con- organisation in the army, but a ship might be in commission but
sideration when he was appointing the Committee. one year, and the officer in command had to bring his men into
Sir. GREENE proposed that the number of acres should be discipline, which could not be done without some little severity.
omitted in the wi rding of the resolution. Moreover, every three years the whole task had to begin again,
Mr. ORNISBY GORE objected, as less than twelve acres as they generally had an entirely new crew to goiern,
whichces, Mr.
bwOuVotuAl
hdl
al
enable
oa addbpeledmt ithtoet em bet
to introduce
offthei diffeintroducerencee
oben t
isaeare
yeßnill,tiahntein,tahwtmoncisngethr
The motion was then agreed to.si
would be wholly insufficient.
THE CASE OF MR. MARA.
Lord LINCOLN said that soon after the commencement of by the establishment of home stations. He die not think that
the present session he had brought under the notice of the corporal punishment could be entirely done away with, but he
House the petition of Mr. Mara. He. hoped that lion, wished to have the wholesome chock of public opinion over its
Gentlemen had read thet petition as it would save him much exertion, and no officer, where it was required, would hesitate
trouble in explsining. In the course of last session a Bill to resort to it.
affecting friend's societies was brought in by the Hon. air. FOX MAULE teonght the clause was one of those
Member for Finsbury. That Bill was afterwards amended wh.ch ought to be confined to very narrow limits, although it
and sent up to the Upper House, where the mode of appoint-. could not be entirely done away with.
ment for the Commissioners was altered, and vested in the Mr. WILLIAMS heard with admiration the wish and hope
hands of the Commissioners for the Reduction of the of the GeTant Admiral. Since the last returns had been
National Debt. A clause was introduced by the counsel granted the punishment in the army had been lessened.
for the Home-office to confirm the present holders The returns were then agreed to.
of the offices in their situations, and to vest LUNATIC ASYLUMS.
the at er appointments in the hands of the Commissioners of The ATTORNEY GENERAL moved for leave to bring
the National Debt, The Bill, as thus amended, passed the in a Bill for the regulation of lunatic asylums.
House of the Lords on the Sib of June, anti on the 6th of July BILL FOR LIGHTING AND IMPROVING TOWNS.
wa t
PEELc hi ng,
the present Government entered upon their offices. On the L,ord_IIIORPETH moved for leave to bring in a Bill for
strength of being confirmed in the appointment which he had
wished to knowdrainiinfgit wasd intended to
the passing of the Act, recognised Mr. Mara dispense withl the necessity of applying for private Bills ?
as a registrar of these friendly societies. On the I Ith of they were on y to.have this Bill, he did not think that it would
August a letter was written from the Treasury to Mr. fulfil the expectations raiser; by her Majesty's speech on sana-
Mara. containing instructions in reference to his office ; and tors improvement.
in two months afier another letter was addre-sed to him, scat- Lord aIORPETH intimated that a more general measure
ing that an ebjection existed to his appointment being eon- on sanatory reform was tinder consideration, and would be in-
firmed, in consequence of the Omission of the clause, welch troducee on a future day. The present measure cc as only to
was subsequently passed by the Lords, on the first, tossing of facilitate the pregress of private Bills
the Bill in the Lower and Upper Houses. Another letter Lord LINCOLN did nor think the Bill so extensive as it
informed him that his office had been filled up ought to be.
by a Mr. Cannel, a private friend of the Attorney .General After a few words from Mr. AGLIONBY,
ter Ireland. He should be able to prove, on reference to the The motion was agreed to.
Ate, that this appointment was most unjust and impolitic. On the motion that the House go into Committee upon the
The words in the 10th clause, upon which Mr. Mara was Mr. P. SC itOPE obtained leave to bring in a Bill to
displaced, were /other equivocal, but it was evident from the exempt from poor-rate (in England) the occupiers of tenements
context that no ground whatever existed for his dismissal. under the value of 51. in rural, and Si. in town parishes, if cot'
The Noble Lord then cited the opinion of Mr. Napier, the tified by the medical officer of the union to be properly drained
barrister, as to the illegality of the removal of Mr. Mara, and maintained in a condition not to be prejudicial to the health
which he further supported by the reading of several sections of the inmates of the neighbourhood.
from the Act of Parliament bearing on the question. This Mr. WARD obtained leave to bring in a Bill for extending
was the opinion, he said, which had been come to by a high the period of service of boys in her Majesty's navy ; also a Bill
legal authority. He thought, therefore, that the removal of for the establishment of naval prisons, and for the prevention of
fir. Mara and the appointment of Mr. Conroe was an illegal desertions from her Majesty's navy.
act, or, if not illegal, a direct contravention of the 'mention of The Annual Indemnity Bill was brought in by Mr.
vile Legislature, which was, that the removal of such officers Po }mita.
as these should no lenger be made dependent on the change of HARBOURS, DOCKS, AND PIERS CLAUSES
Government. It was not only a proceeding against the inten- BILL.
tion of Parliament, which was to obtain officers of experience and Mr. WARD moved the postponement of the Committee on
ability, but it was most unjust in the present instance to the the Harbours, Docks, and Piers Clauses Bill till Monday.
individual wko had been removed. Haying said thus much, he Mr. C. BERKELEY moved that it be committed that day