The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-01 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, MAY 1, 1841.

Lord G. SOMERSET objected to the clause, as well
upon its merits as from its being informal, the Standing
Orders providing that no clause of such a nature could
be brought forward on the third reading of a Bill without
due notice.

Sir A. DALRYMPLE was anxious to afford every
facility to the Railway Company for the transport of their
goods, but ho did not think they ought to add so import-
ant a clause upon the 31 reading of the Bill, due notice of
it not having been given.
Earl SURREY and Mr. ESTCOURT opposed the clause.
Mr. EASTHOPE hoped that his Hon. Friend would
not divide the House upon the question.
The SPEAKER said the rules of the House had not
been complied with, as the clause had not been furnished
to hir.

Captain PEC HELL was very sorry that the rules
of the House had not been attended to by the parties, and
would not, of course, divide the House, after what had
fallen from the Chair. He was glad that the discussion
had arisen, and he trusted it would soon be settled, whe-
ther rails might not be laid across a turnpike road, when
the fact was apparent that they would, so far from being
any hindrance, be an advantage to the public.
The Bill was then passed.
On the motion of Mr. B. WOOD, the South Wes-
tern Railway Bill, No. 2, and the Southwark Improve-
ment Bill, No 2, were read a second time.

Mr. WILLIAMS presented a petitiun from Coventry
praying for a reduction of the duty on certain articles
used in the manufactures of this country to enable
our manufacturers to compete with those of foreign coun-
tries, and also for a reduction of the duty on sugars,
coffee, sad ether articles.

Mr. GREG presented a petition from a parish in
Manchester praying for the abolition of the Corn-laws.

Mr. E. TENNENT presented petitions from various
places in the counties of Down, Tyrone, and Mayo, pray-
ing for the abolition of lay patronage in the Church of
Scotland ; also a petition from a place in Staffordshire
praying for Church Extension.
Mr. WALTER presented a petition from a place in
Nottinghamshire praying for Church Extension ; also a
petition from the Chairman, Vice-Chairman, and Guar-
dians of a union in Shropshire, praying that the powers of
the Poor-law Commissioners might be restricted and their
salaries reduced.

Mr. GRANTLEY BERKELEY presented a petition
from Molesvvorth, praying for the abolition of Church-
rates and Ecclesiastical Courts.

Mr. WALLACE presented a petition from Greenock
with 4,987 signatures, praying for the abolition of patronage
in the Church of Scotland ; also a petition from the same
place praying for the abolition of Church-rates.
Mr. B. WOOD presented a petition from a congrega-
tion of Baptists for the abolition of Church-rates and
Ecclesiastical Courts.

Mr. HA WES presented a petition is favour of the Re-
peal of the Corn-laws.

Mr. J. E. GLADSTONE presented a petition from
Walsall in favour of Church Extension.
KING'S COUNTY ELECTION.

Mr. WILSON PATTEN, as Chairman of the Select
Committee appointed to try the merits of the petition against
the Election for King's County, reported from the Commit-
tee that Mr. Armstrong was duly elected to serve in Parlia-
:rent as a knight of the shire for King's County, and that
neither the petition against the return nor the apposition
to it was frivolous or vexatious.
CORN-LAWS.
Lord JOHNRUSSELL gave notice that on Monday,
the 31st May, he should move that the House resolve it-
self into a Committee of the whole House, to consider the
Acts relating to the trade in corn.—(Loud cheers from
the Ministerial side, and loud and long continued counter
cheers from the Opposition.)

Therefore, so far as regarded the early part of the year,
the expectations I had entertained of the revenue were
equalled if not exceeded by the result. I wish to
state the particular articles in which you will find a
falling off. I have directed returns to be made of the
last year—not the last financial year—of articles in which
there has been an increase or a falling off. That return
is as follows :
(Comparison of years, 1839-1840, as to gross rec-Jipts.)
Articles in which there has been an increase, both in
quantity and amount of duty :
Increase of quantities. Inc. in amount of duties.
Butter
Cheese .... 18,367 cwts 13,417
Coffee
Olive Oil 173,900 gals 2,410
Pepper 98,727 lbs ....... ..... 4,608
Silk (raw and thrown) 427,482 1b5..... ....... 12,657
Timber 74,573 loads 111,495
Cotton Wool 175,430,954 1b5.... 233,590
Articles on which there has been a decrease in quantity
and an increase of Duty :
Decrease Increase in amount
in quantity. of Duty.
Resins
Tallow
Tobacco 71,4291b5. ...... .. 95,892
Deals, &c., from

British America... 782 gt. hds.
I wish more particularly to call the attention of the
Committee to those articles on which there has been a de-
crease both in quantity and amount of duty, because I
am sure, with regard to the principal ones, that Honour-
able Members would at once observe the grounds of de-
crease, and see that they were not unnatural
_ .

Articles in which there has been a decrease, both in
quantity and amount of duties.
Decrease in quantity. Decrease in amount of duties.
Currants 6,136 cwts
Molasses 111,656 cwts
Spirits
Sugar 250,343 cwts
Tea 2,873,767 lbs ... ..... 186,102
Wine
Deals (European) 1,664 gt. hds.
Sheep's Wool
I need not explain to the Committee that the falling off
in the two articles of molasses and sugar did not arise from
any unwillingness in the country to consume such articlea,
but from the prices they bore in the market. For the
falling off in the imports of French spirits there was an
obvious reason in the French commercial treaty. The
other main article in which there was a falling off was
tea; and I need not suggest to the Committee that the
cause was in the state of our relations with China, and the
rise in the price of the article thereby occasioned. In the
Excise the falling off was in Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) The
increase and decrease in England and Ireland had been as
follow :

EXCISE REVENUE.-EXCHEQUER PAYMENTS.
GREAT BRITAIN.

Year ended 56 April, 1840 £12,040,000
Year ended ith April, 1841 12,530,000

Increase £490,000
IRELAND,

Year ended sth April, 1840 £1,497,000
Year ended sth April, 1841 1,143,000

Increase £354,000
Of this deficit,—Spirits £305,000

.
Of this deficit,—Malt
Thus there is a decrease in the Excise in Ireland of
C54,000/.—( Hear.) Now, Sir, if that falling eff had arisen
from any diminution of the resources of the country,
or, if it had been that the smuggler had taken
the place of the fair trader, that result would
have been a subject of deep and sincere regret, but from
all I can learn from the united opinions of gentlemen
connected with Ireland, and in conformity with
the opinion of the Revenue officers, vvho were
the best able to furnish official information, I am afraid that
it has arisen from increased habits of temperance in the
people— ( Loud cries of Hear, hear," from Mr. O'Con-
nell and the Irish Members)—and I own, Sir, that how-
ever inconvenient it may be to the statement I have now
to make, I should be ashamed of myself if I did not make
that statement with the grcateat and sincerest pleasure.__
(Cheers from both sides of the House.) I may mention
incidentally that I have not the account for the
last quarter of the revenue from the corresponding
articles of tea, sugar, and coffee ; but on the
early part of the year there was an increase,
and I have no doubt that a still larger increase
will be found on the last quarter.—( Hear, hear.) With
respect to other articles, I will mention the increase which
hal taken place, in order to show that the falling off in
the excise showed no material defalcation in the resources
of the country. With this view I bad a paper drawn up
which showed the per centage increase and decrease on all
exciseable articles compared with the average of the list
three years. The return is as follows:
Increase per cent, in the Quantities of Exciseable Articles
charged with Duty, in the Year ended sth January,
1841, compared with the Average of the three pre-
ceding Years—

TILE UNITED KINGDOM.
Auctions ... Increase 61 per cent.
Bricks l3
Fiint -3
Glas Plate
Broad . 211-
Green ~, ~ . 13,4
Mal.t 6l
Paper
Post Horse licenses 3

Hard
Soap
Vinegar

5 1-3

axiaiso.—The quantities of the following Articles
charged with duty have decreased:—
Glass, Crown Decreased 1 20 per Cent.
P.'133 Bl

•
Licenses -3
Post Horses lO-
l-
Spirits
Tne diminution in spirit licenses was partly the result of
the decreased consumption of spirits in Ireland, and partly
the consequence of the 13,11 passed last year with respect
to the sale of beer. The articles of stamps and taxes had
both produced more than the estimate. Postage had been
estimated beyond the actual produce by 160,0001. ; but this
had not arisen from mistake in the calculations of his Noble
Friend tic Postmaster-General as to the increase of letters,
bus from increased expenditure in the department. The
large additional assistance which had been required from
the greater number of letters, from the charges in connec-
tion with railways, from the spreading of double posts, and
the accommodation afforded to the public in registering
money letters, had rendered necessary an increase of the
Post-office establishment beyond what his Noble Friend
the Postmaster-General had contemplated. The cal-
culation of the increase of letters had not been erro-
neous, but the nett revenue had been diminished by
the increased charges. I have now stated to the
House the amount of the actual income and expendi-
ture of last year, the amount of the deficiency which ap-
peared, and laid before them such information, wit bout over-
whelming them with details, as might enable them to see
the sources of the filling off which had token place. I have
now to lay before them the anticipations of the Govern-
ment. The charge upon the Consolidated Fund will in
all amount to 31,820,000/. The Army, including the
Commissariat and Militia expenditure, 6,587,000/. The
Navy, inclusive of 199,000/. of former years, 6,805,0001.
The Ordnance, 2,075,0001. The miscellaneous charges,
including the whole of the items actually on the table of
the House, and some small items, which is ill be laid be-
fore the House in a short time, 2,935,0001. The Estimate
for Canada, 108,000/. I am not prepared to state
that in the present year I shall he able to put an end to
the present system, which I acknowledge to be a bid one,
and has lasted long enough ; but I think it will be neces-
sary on the present occasion that we should have the
money, but of course the House ought to have and to
exercise a complete control over it. I will be able to
give the House every insight into the details hereafter.
The House is in possession of all the information re-
specting China which I could afford them. The charge
made by the East India Company amounts to
475,000/. That estimate was framed up till to-morrow,
the Ist of May, 1841, that being the termination of the
East India Company's financial year. There is a question
pending between the Company and the Government, as to
certain charges, and upon whom they were to fall. I
apprehend, however, that if I made provision for
-100,0004, leaving the 75,000/. over until the accounts
are made up, I think I shall satisfy the East India
Company, and have made provision for the present
year. I have not deducted any sum in
the expectation, or upon any suppositiou that the expedi-
tion will terminate sooner than expected, I merely deduct
the 75,0001. until the accounts are squared. The charges
will then stand thus :

Consolida:cd Fund ..-£31,520,000
Army 6,587,000
Navy 6,805,000
Ordnance
Miscellaneous 2,935,000
Canada lOB,OOO

China 400,000
Making the total of the estimated expenditure 50,731,0001.
I now propose to state th?. estimate I have made of the
coming revenue, and in so doing, although last year I
stated I was prepared to take a favourable view of the
prospects of the year, I have endeavoured in the present
year, finding the difficulties which I anticipated might be
passed over still continua—l have endeavoured, in com-
munication with those Officers of my own Department
and of the Treasury, who were the best fitted to assist me
by their experience, to take an estimate, which I
am able to tell the House is one of a very
sober character.—( Cries of " Hear, hear," and laughter.)
I think I shall be able to show that what I have stated is
quite correct. The Customs for the last year produced
21,700,000/ , though there was a period of six weeks in
which the increased duty of 5 per cent. did not attach. I have
placed the estimated income of the Customs at 22 millions,
being somewhat more than the actual produce last year.
The actual produce of the Excise last year vva513,673,000/.,
witn some fraction. Of the increase on the 5 per
ceut., it is impossible for me to say what part at-
tached during the last year, but, with regard to
the Excise, there is this great advantage, that
in many things—as, for Instance, the malt duty—it is not
available for a long time, yet you will be able exactly to
tell the amount, and to know what will be paid.
The average for the Excise for the next year I have put,
in round nurribers, at 14 million!. The stamps produced
7,183,0001, and I have put them
at 7,130,000/. The
taxes produced 3,989,4321., and f have placed them at
4,300,000/. The Post-office I have placed at 450,000/.
The Crown Lands at 180,000 t, and the Miscella-
neous at 250,000/., which last year produced 311,0001.
The total income that I expect during the next year
amounts to 48,310,000/. The expenditures as I stated,
will amount to 50,731,000/. Of this expenditure the
House will observe that China forms an item of 400,000/.,
and there is another sum of 191,000/ , the navy debt of
last year, making in all 591,000/. Now that sum does
not form part of what is the permanent expen-
diture of the country, and it therefore does not be-

come necessary to make a permanent provision for it.
With regard to the expenditure, then, I think there is
every prospect that it will not at any rate be likely that wo
shell be called on for anything like the sums of former
years:. The expenditure for the next year, leaving
out those two items referred to, will amount to 50,130,0001.
That leaves 1,800,0001. to be provided for. Looking, then, to
the future prospects, and to the state of the expenditure of the
country, it is the opinion of her Majesty's Government that
it is impossible, consistently with the stability of the
finances of the country, to leave the position of the revenue
as it stands, and not to make some increase to the income
of the country.--( Hear.) Taking the whole subject into
consideration, I consider that it will be necessary to
make up the permanent revenue to fifty millions
by such means as Parliament may please to adopt. If I
can makeprovision for that I shall have placed the finances
of the country upon a stable and sure footing. It was
my fortune last year when I had to address you upon a
similar occasion to call upon this House, and to call
upon the country for additional taxes for the purpose of
placing the revenue in a better position and making up the
deficiency which then existed, and if it become necessary
for me again to undertake that duty. I should not
shrink from laying before the House a pro-
position for a system of taxation, however unpopular it
might be. In my opinion there is no tax so inconvenient
or so injurious that it could for a moment be weighed
against the great inconvenience and calamity of a per-
manently disordered state of the finances. Under
these circumstances her Majesty's Government have
taken into their serious consideration the course they will
feel it their duty to pursue. It becomes necessary either to
fall back upon some of those taxes which we have ourselves
repealed—either the house-tax, or the tax upon coals, or
some other repealed tax. The sum is so large, that it is
absolutely necessary that we should act with boldness. It
is impossible to attempt, by any mitigating measure, cr by
any small measure, to deal with such deficiency.—( Hear.)
You therefore have the choice either to return upon these
old taxes which you have repealed after due considera-
tion, and upon the opinion that they press severely upon
the trade and commerce of the country, or you must on the
other hand take away the exemptions and introduce into your
taxation those parties who have been hitherto exempted, as
was proposed last year by an Hon. Member of this House;
you must include the legacy duty, and you must include real
property under the legacy duty—(Cheers)--or you must
take away some of those exemptions by which particular
classes are benefited—such as the tax on agricultural horses,
or some of those exemptions which I have no doubt
would add considerably to the revenue, I mean
in proportion to the cost of collection. Or if you do
not choose to adopt that, you mast adopt another course
—you must lay a tax upon those new articles of
strength—upon gas and steam, which are so new-
born
in the world as hardly to have benefited us
under the system of taxation which, during a long war,
we were obliged to apply to almost every other article.
(Hear, hear.) Or, lastly, you must take that which I find
now so popular, although I am old enough to remember
that it was the object of the bitterest attacks and execra-
tions—I mean an extensive property tax.—( Loud cheer-
ing.) It becomes therefore our duty to consider whe-
ther, by some new modification of those taxes which arc
already laid upon the people, we may not be able to
obtain the necessary supplies for the public service, without
adding to the burdens of the country. I apprehend that
the House will have already judged that the two
articles with which I propose to deal in my Budget
are timber and sugar.—(Loud cheers.) The House
will recollect the duty on colonial timber was
We. a load, while the duty on Baltic was 655. a load,
thus giving a protective duty of 450 per cent. on the colonial
timber. The subject has been repeatedly before different
Administrations. My Noble Friend Lord Spencer pro-
posed an adjustment of the duties, by diminishing the pro-
testing duty of 455. to 305., and by raising the colonial duty
from 10s. to 20s. ; what I DOW propose is to reduce the
duty on Baltic timber from 555. to 50s. The subject was
referred to a Committee which went patiently into the in-
-1 quiry, and examined various parties connected with all in-
terests. The Committee made a Report containing
much valuable information, and confirming the views
of my Noble Friend as to the expediency of the
reduction which he proposed. Now, Sir, I propose
to adopt the proposition of my Noble Friend.
I feel satisfied that an arrasigemect might be made by
which the consumer in the country will be much bene-
fited, and the revenue will receive considerable addition.
( Hear, hear.) I shall also adopt certain other recom-
mendations of that Committee as far as they are practi-
cable. They recommend that the duty on deals should
be adjusted in a more equal and fair manner. My
Noble Friend Lord Spencer was satisfied in his own mind
that he would derive from this source as much as 750,000/.,
but I am willing to take the estimate as low as 600,0001.
The present duty is 1 ls. 6d. upon Colonial timber,
and 565. 6d. on Baltic. I propose to put a duty of
20:. upon Colonial timber, and reduce the duty upon
Baltic timber to 50s. making the differential duty still 30s.
It is exactly Lord Spencer's proposition. He expec:ed to
raise from that plan the sum of 75,8001. I propose to
take it at 600,000/. I now come, Sr, to the other art.cle,
sugar. I am sure I need not call the attention of the
11 ouseto the inconvenience—to the more than inconvenience,
that for more than the last two ye irs has been suffered by
all classes, bet more especially by the lower classes—
( Cheers)—from the high price—the exorbitant price—of
this a-title, which, if not a necessary of life, is at all events
one of the poor man's luxuries. This very circumstance,
to which I alluded in a former part of my address, when
I stated to the Committee the falling off which had taken
place in Ireland, by the people leaving off spirits and
taking to coffee and tea as a substitute, if we really
sec that by keeping up the high price of sugar
we would interfere with that which every mal who
has any pretensions to be called a statesman must be ex-
tremely anxious for—namely, the introduction of sober and
industrious habits amongst toe people—if you will look at
that only I am sure the Committee will be most
anxious to allow the poorer classes to obtain something
like a decent supply of this necessary article. I
am not about to adopt any wild, or what my
Noble Friend might call philosophical plan. I propose
still to leave a considerable protection in favour of
colonial sugar. I propose to leave a protection of
50 per cent. in favour of the colonies. The present duty
upon colonial sugar is 245., plus 5 per cent. ; the
duty upon foreign sugar is 635., plus 5 per cent.,
which amounts to an actual prohibition—far better
to state fairly and honestly that they would not admit
foreign sugar at all. I propose still to give the colonial
produce a protection of 50 per cent. I propose to reduce
the duty on foreign sugar to 365.—( Hear, and cheer,. )
By my proposition, the duty on colonial sugar will he
245. per cent, plus the 5 per cent. ; the duty on
foreign sugar will be 365. per cot., plus the 5 per
cent., bong exactly a differential duty of 50 per cent, fur
protection. I have endeavoured, Sir, to go through the
calculations necessary on this subject, and have stied to
the House what I think it probable the increase will
be. I think it not impossible the increase will amount
to nine hundred thousand pounds, but I take it a.: seven
hundred thousand pounds. The sum the Committee
recollect I proposed to provide for was 51,700,000/.
The increase of sugar, if it realizes 700,000/ ,
and of timber 600,0001., will produce the sum of
1,300,000/., leaving a deficiency of 400,0001. My Noble
Friend at the commencement of the proceedings
of this evening announced to the House a
measure which will be thought before them respectirg
the duties which now attach upon corn.--( Cheers and
counter-cheer,:.) This is a subject of the deepest and
gravest importance, and one which I am not willing
to treat of in an incidental debate. At the same time 1,
cannot overlook it in the statements I am about to make,
and certainly I shall leave this sum of 400,000/. and upwards
unprovided for, feeling satisfied that the proposition
my Noble Friend has adopted for that sum, will be
found a sufficient provision in the revenue derived
from it. But whatever may be the result it is my
determination to make up the revenue to the amount al-
ready stated, and if I cannot thus make provision for that
sum of 400,0001., I shall produce it by direct taxation.
I have felt some difficulty as to the mode of dealing with
this question, as I have been anxious to avoid as much as
possible mingling the subject of revenue of the country with
the discussion of so important a question as the Corn-laws ;
but at the same time I cannot conceal from myself, nor
can any gentleman in this House conceal from himself,
that this is a question of principle.—( Hear, hear, hear.)
It is not a mere scrambling for sums of money to be col-
lected into the revenue, but it is a question whether you
will give a protecting interest t 1 those whom the subject
concerns, or whether you will keep the law as it at pre-
sent stands, and impose additional burdens upon the popu-
lation.—(Ministerial cheers.) If you take it in that
view you must consider, not only the question that pro-
tects the %Vest Indian interest, or the Canadian timber in-
terest, but you must consider that the principle of that
protection must be given to the growth of corn. I shall
state those points which I consider may refer
to the revenue of the country, and my Right Hon. Friend
the P,esident of the Board of Trade will, in his depart-
ment, submit to the Committee such measures as be may
think may be with safety to the revenue recom-
mended to Parliament for the revision of the law which
is now in existence. I come before the House
to stele to thc In the state of the revenue
and of the income which will accrue in the present veer;
and I ask the House, for what I feel assured they will not
refuse, I call upon them to make proper provision to preserve
the good faith that is certainly the interest of this country.
It becomes a question in what mode the deficiency is to be
made up ; and before I propose to them any direct taxa-
tion, whether it be one tax or another, I ask them whether
they will be prepared entirely to refuse to consider the ii -
terests of their own population ?—( Hear, and cheers.) Or
whether they will, by reducing these protecting duties, ob-
tain what is required for the revenue without adding to the
burdens of the people ?—( Hear, hear.) This Revenue
que;tion you will have to answer by the vote which I
shall hereafter have to submit to the House. But I cannot
forbear from calling the attention of the House some-
what to the position of trade, and to the advisability of
attending to the subject which her Majesty's Government
suggest to their notice. It is not now a question of mere
abstract principle. You have at present a heavy debt.
Even if there were no deficiency to he made up, 1 should
venture to recommend to the House to adopt a more libe-
ral policy with regard to this subject. I do not ask. them
to adopt all the opinions which they may hear from different
quarters, but I ask them to look to the present state
of affairs.—(Loud cheers from both sides of the House.)
You have the German League extending its ramifiea•
tions, and every year, if I mistake not, growing
more inclined to protect its own manufactures,
You have the American tariff—you have a treaty with
Brazil, which must be the subject of negotiation. I can-
not but feel you are come to a most important crisis in
affairs, and that upon the decision which this House may
make upon these propositions must depend the success of
your commercial policy. You may negotiate as you will, but
what will be the answer which you will receive from abroad ?
They will tell you that certainly you press that their mar-
kets may be opened to you, but it has so happened
that lately you have had the question brought be-
fore yourselves—that it was a question not making
an abstract claim upon you, but a question of whether
you will raise one million and a half and more by
taxation, or by admitting foreign goods into the market, _

and they will tell you that they hear what you say, and
they see what you do. That you have written your own
condemnation—..that is the answer that must be returned
to you, although you may press upon them the expediency
of adopting a high line of policy they will tell you that you
yourselves are adopting a very different one. Sir, I admit
that I have wandered from the subject more immediately
before me to one which does not strictly belong
to it, but it is one in which I feel the greatest
interest, and which is of the greatest importance to this
country, and one upon which 1 sincerely trust that if there
was any intention even to admit the produce of foreign
markets, and proceed in a course of liberal policy, that
this country may not delay and postpone the measure
till they had passed the mark, and have nothing
left them in the end, but to give way with regret and des-
pair. The Right Hon. Gentleman resumed his seat amidst
loud and general cheering.
Mr. G 0 ULBURN said it was impossible to have
heard the statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman with-
out concurring wish him in the opinion that we had ar-
rived at an important crisis of our affairs.—(Loud
cries of " Hear, hear.") By the course of conduct which
had been pursued fur the last five years with the
revenue and expenditure of the country, we bad arrived
at a critical moment, when it was at last necessary to
come to a determination whether that course was still to
be pursued, or the revenue was to be placed in a
safe condition.—[Great interruption from Members
leaving the House, and talking between the bar.
The Speaker ordered the Sergeant to remove Mem-
bers from the bar.—Mr. Goulburn at length proceeded.'
He had not had the slightest intimation that the measure
of the Right Hon. Gentleman would be brought under
discussion this evening, and he was not prepared to give
an opinion upon it. Indeed the Right Hon. Gentleman
himself had not given an opinion.—( Hear, hear.) Indeed
he had not told the House how he expected to raise the
amount of revenue of which he spoke. He had said that
he intended to reduce the duty on foreign sugar, and that
he expected thereby to raise 700,000/. ; but he did not soy
in what manner that sum was to be produced.—( Hear,
hear.) Tne Right Hon. Gentleman had also said that
the duty on corn was to produce 400,000/. But he had
not informed the House whether or not that was to be in
addition to the amount (1,200,000/. ) of last year.—( Hear. )
He (Mr. G.) would decline for the present to go into the
several questions involved in the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer's propositions ; but at the same time he begged to
he considered as perfectly free from any opinion one way
or the other, until he had an opportunity of looking into
documents and making inquiries as to the ground'
of the Right Hon. Gentleman's anticipations.—( Hear.)
The accounts laid before them were even worse than he
had anticipated. They had not received the accounts of
the revenue until that morning, and what did they pre-
sent? a deficiency up to the end of the quarter upon the
whole year of 1,850,0001. ; and they were told that in the
rear which was to come there would be a deficiency to a
similar amount. Let me call the attention of the House to
Cie time when these gentlemen came into office. They began
with a revenue of 46,000,0001., while the expenditure was
somewhat under 45,000,0001, leaving a surplus of above
1,000,000/. available for national purposes. What was
the state of things at the end of the fifth year of their ad-
ministration? The result was, that with ;a revenue in-
created to forty-seven and a half millions, the rapid progress
of expenditure had been so great, that they bad not only got
rid of the whole of the accumulation left in their hands, and
with an aggregate deficiency of 5,000,000/., but even for
the year which was to come they were obliged to estimate
a deficiency of 2,000,000/. more. That was the state to
which the lion. Gentlemen opposite had reduced the
revenue. That result bad been effected by a course of
proceedings against which he, for one, had constantly pro-
tested. lie had always contended for keeping the '
revenue in some degree of assimilation to the
expenditure. In 1835 the Government had at their dis-
posal a nominal surplus of a million, a real one of 600,000/.
With that surplus they repealed certain taxes to the
amount of 156,000/., and had addei to the expenditure
to the amount of 340,000/., which, together cell-
surned the surplus left to them by their predecessors.
To gentlemen who denied the advantage of a surplus to
our revenue he knew that would bo no matter of complaint.
In the year 1836 they had a surplus of about 1,000,0001,
and what was the consequence ? They repealed taxes to
more than that amount, and proceeding on the principle that
increase of expenditure should keep pace with decrease
of taxation, they added, a million to their expenditure, so
having a surplus of a million, they disposed of, and
plat .d the country a million in debt. In
1837, there was a deficiency of 650,0001. which
was made by increased expenditure to nearly an-
other million of money, making no corresponding
fforts to keep up the taxation. In 1838, naturally enough,
there was another deficiency, and, as he had almost said,
naturally enough an increased expenditure of 400,000/.
;n" 1839 the deficiency amounted to 1,500,000/.
and added to that was the deficiency of previous years,
amounting to more than a million, and leaving them in
debt more than two millions. They then thought that a
fit opportunity for repealing the duty on postage-4 Opposi-
tion cheers)—thereby reducing the revenue 1,500,0001,
and acting contrary to their ordinary principles,
they did thus reduce the expenditure about 150,0001.
What must the consequence of these proceedings have
been ? It could only be that at which the House had now
arrived. They were now called upon to take extensive
measures for putting the revenue of the country on a safe
basis.—( Hear.) Now he, (Mr. G.) did not propose to
quarrel with the estimate the Right Hon. Gentleman had
made for the year to come. He would only rema-k that
there was again considerable increase of expenditure.
With respect to the Post-office he now found a dis-
tinct admission that that measure had not answered
the expectations of those by whom it was adopted. The
Right Hon. Gentleman last year took the estimate of the
Post-office at 530,030/ ; it produced only 413,000/. ;
and what was the estimate he took for the present
year? Why nearly 450,0001.—( Hear.) It should be
remembered too that a considerable revenue was now
de. ived by the Post-office from letters that formerly passed
under official franks. Looking to the financial accounts,
they would find that the net proceeds of the Post-office
had not exceeded 240,000/. He alluded to that, because
he was anxious to caution the House, at a moment when
they were called on as a financial operation to
make a partial reduction in the duty. They ough
not to be led away too hastily by the statements
made by the Government, without a close and accurate
examination of the real case. As he was speaking of the
Post-office, there was one subject to which he would call
the attention of the House—the statement which was made
with respect to the Irish Post-office. It was said that the
net revenue which the Irish Post-office brought into the re-
venue was 6,000/. ; but on referring to the financial account
-Oat was recently made, it would be found that the Irish Post-
office never could have paid anything into the Exchequer,
because the expenditure of that post-office had exceeded
not only the whole of the receipts, but the whole of that
portion of the stamps that had been sent over from Eng-
land, and with which the Post-office should be fairly
charge". Yet in the return made to the House the
Right Hon. Gentleman said that 6,000/. had been paid
into the net revenue of the Irish Post-office; whereas the real
case was, that 27,0001. had been sent over the present year to
make up the deficiency which had taken place in that
department. The Right Hon. Gentleman, when men-
tionining the estimate of 450,000/., did not
say that that estimate was made from an ap-
prehension of the number of letters being in-
creased, but that the number of officers em-
ployed should be increased, to carry on the
busiacss. Now, when the proposition for the re-
duction of the postage to one penny was made
it struck him (Mr. Goulburn) that some of its
effects would be to get rid of a great number of
clerks, and so lessen the expenses usually incurred.
lie could not avoid offering these few observations with
respect to the details of the revenue as submit-
ted to the House by the Right Honourable Gentlemars
Fur the reasons he had already stated, he should forbear,
until the measures were distinctly submitted to
the consideration of the House, from giving any
opinion as to their effect upon the country, but
when they were proposed he would at once state his
views upon the subject.
Mr. HUME said there was much in the speech of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer which had given him satisfac-
tion, though there was much also which had caused him
great regret. With regard to the reductions which were
proposed to be made it was an instalment of that which
the people cf England had long expected, and which the
welfare of the whole empire required. Bet there was
not one word of the Right Hon. Gentleman's speech of
that night with respect to what appeared to him
(Mr. Hume) to be the first point for the
House to consider, viz. whether there was to
be any reduction in the heavy expenditure which
ceated that excess. He could not help expressing his
deep regret that in the present state of things that point
had not been taken into consideration. He would now
make a few observations upon what had fallen from the
Honourable Gentleman who had just sat down. He
quite agreed with that Honourable Gentleman that
the great excess which had occurred in the re-
‘eoue within the last six years was much to
be deplored, and that the Government ought no to have
suffered these defalcations to have taken place. But he
would ask. the Right Hon. Gentleman whether he,
or :any one on that side of the House—there might
indent be a solitary exception— had any right to
taunt the Treasury? He (Mr. Hume) might
do i , but they had no right. He bad endeavoured to lessen
that expenditure. He had pointed out to the House what
would be the result of those extravagant and in-
creasing estimates from year to year, and he had
called on the Honourable Gentleman near him not
to listen to the voice from the opposite side, which would
hurry him on into increased expenditure. It any indivi-
dual was entitled to make the speech which they had just
heard, it was not the Hon. Gentleman, for he challenged
him to point out any one instance in which he had pro-
posed to reduce the great and increasing expenditure.
For the last three years there had been additional taxes to
he amount of 3} millions laid on, and there had bean a
failiqg off for the last 4 years of 5,1 millions, making a
total of nine millions increase of the expenses of the coun-
try. Tnat arose from the neglect of the House and its
utter disregard for the reduction of the public expendi.
tune, and be might add that on the several divisions
he had taken to reduce the expenditure of the coun-
try, the number who voted with him seldom ex-
ceeded seven or ten. He was gratified to think that
the Right Honourable Gentleman had been com-
pelled, by the increasing burdens of the people, to
look about and devise another mode of increasing the
resources of the country. It was now clear, that although
last year the Right Hon. Gentleman had laid on taxes to
the amount of 2,340,0004, so far from its producing
any increase, it had caused a decrease of 300,000/.
on the last as compared with the previous year. Con-
sequently the estimate of the Right Honourable Gen•
tleman bad failed. The revenue, which was 47,843,000/.
for the year ending in April, 1840, was for the year
ending April, 1841, with the 5 per cent. additional taxes
and customs, and the 10 per cent. increase upon the as-
sessed taxes, only 47,433,000/., being an actual
reduction of 400,000/. upon the receipts of the
previous year. It appeared from that that the
Right Honourable Gentleman had miscalculated to the