The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-11 00:00:00

THE

I ()egislative inteefeerence manufacturing entet'prise 0* since set at rest. He would ask that House of Commons was it
the year 1832 she hours of labour had been reduced for all prepared to throw back to another Parliament the settle-
Persoas above 13 years of age from 74 to 69 hours, for all ment of the question which had enlisted in its favour the affec-
rereons metier 18 they bad been reduced from 74 to 36, and tions of the working men and women—which came to them
an every ease the best possible results had followed the adop- supported by the opinions of the clergy, the medical profession,
?ion of -the measures.—( Hear.) Looking then at the past, and all the enlightened and impartial, which was based upon the
and relying upon practical exnerience for the future, they experience of the past, and which appealed to past results
I
were eustified in calling upon the opponents of this Bill to , for future benencial effects? Would the House of Commons
:alike out a most irresistible case, to demonstrate by facts reject such A measure as the present, because some
:and figures, which could admit of no dispute or cavil, that ! Honourable Gentlemen are pleased to assert that
the 'wages of the workmen would fall in consequence of the it does not. altogether steer with their notions of
pawing of this measure, which was another of the arguments political economy? He trusted not; but should it
use! by the opponents of the measure.—(Cheers.) !he se, and should the House come to a conclusion
But, even if this fell of wages were to take place, ! adverse to the second reading of the dill, the Gentlemen on
it would be in seine sort compensated by :• his side of the House would retire from the contest
gis-i ng to the workmen facilities for household economy, undismayed and undeterred, cheered and encouraged
and for the mental and moral improvement of the inmates of by the reflection that they had done their duty,
the cuttag,e.—(llear, hear.) The people working in the fac- and that the Tory gentlemen of England had maintained
t °rim were told that, with tae repeal of the corn-laws, the ! their historical position—(Laughter)—and had, consistently
chief element of their expenses would be materially ! with it, fought the battle of the poor against the rich, of
redacted. (Hear, hear.) How those promises had their poorer fellow-subjects against the mighty and the
been fulfilled, the Proeent prices would abundantly testify. i strong.—(Hear, hear.) He trusted that the Bill
If the corn-laws were to reduce the food of the people at ! would pass into a law, and that this protracted
least one-third, sanely they were entitled to have their hours I struggle would now be terminated ; and if such
of
e lebor relaxe.n. was willing to leave this matter to was the case, he could assure the House the measure would
decided, by the practical experience of the operatives ! be received by a grateful and loyal people amidst the accla-
v,teelefelelelvee, r ,ut yet it was a difficult question, and one on mations of millions.
,t would be difficult for them to deal The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that if
shirewith the..t. employers. Fortunately, Lancashire and York- the Noble Lord had abstained from those allusions which
‘7
other.ere not exclusively populated by manufacturers; he had deprecated in the commencement of his speech, he
lived in them who were competent to judge by their I (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would not have addressed
knowledge, of the condition of the operatives. There were the House. He had been willing to believe that the question
'o
Alan egerst Dissenting ministers—there were the Dean of might have been discussed without any party feeling being
nieester, the Vicar of Leeds, the Rector of Brad- expressed. And if the Noble Lord did take credit for his
ford,
all f S% nom were competent arbitrators, to party, he would surely allow him to claim, for the Gentle-
w Join he should feel satisfied to leave the decision of the men with whom he acted, the merit of a measure which
I.netter. Now, when they came forward and told them that gave to the mass of the people the main article of
for the sake of their spiritual health it was necessary to pass subsistence at the cheapest possible rate. He did not wish to
this Bill, and when the surgeons in the large towns said it pursue the subject further, or to say much upon the present
was necessary for the emprovement of their physical question, which had been so repeatedly before the House. Oa
'condition, and when they and the landed proprie- the last occasion that the Bill was before the House, it was
tors were enanimously of this opinion, he considered opposed by the Government as a Government measure.
it was incumbent on the House to comply with their wishes. His Noble Friend near him, and the Right Hon. Baronet
He had been entrusted with a letter on the subject from Mr. near him, would support the measure under certain modifica-
Fletcher, the well-known surgeon of Bury, dated Feb. 7, thine, but he supported the same opinion upon the
1847, which deserved the serious attention of the House, present as upon 'former occasions. And he considered
which was as follows :—" I have been professionally so much himself bound to Stand up and declare himself, so
engaged that 1 did not know till yesterday that the second that the question might not go forth with the
reading of your Factory Bill is fixed for Wednesday next, or weight of Government authority. He was as much a friend
I would haeve earlier communicated a few statistical facts, to the poor man as any Gentleman in that House, and if
which so strikingly illustrate the effects of the present sys- he were disposed to overlook the immense interests which
their infants by mothers employed in the mills, that you he would not give his consent to such a measure,
ntay, perhaps, consider them worth using on that occasion. as he believed it would be most injurious in its results. He
'They came to my knowledge during an inquiry into the had no hesitation in granting a limitation to the hours of
sanatory condition of different parts of this town, for the labour for children, but he would oppose any interference
Purpose of giving evidence en an Improvement Bill. Some with those of adults. By such a measure they would take
years before, while preparing a report for the health of away one-sixth part of the earnings of the labourer.
towns commissioners, my attention had been attracted to By diminishing the hours for labour they would increase
the greater mortaliey
especially- of infants, in the factory the coat of production, and that cost would either fall upon
districts of the town and neighbourhood, compared with the profits of the manufacturer or the wages of the artizan.
those in wench few mills existed. I therefore, on this He would take the cases of the different mills. In the first
occasion, in calculating the average are at death in the mill all the operatives signed in favour of long hours; in the
better awl worse conditioned localities, carefully dis. second mill, 169 signed in favour of long hours, and 75
linguinitetd the factory operatives from the other working against it; in the third, 59 only signed for long hours; and al-
classed..
!, The result proved the average age attained by the though an announcement was made by the masters, that in
factory workers and their infants to be somewhat less than the month of October following they should commence
one-half that of the other operatives in the same districts. working short time, before that day of working short time
—(Hear, hear.) In order to prevent any doubt as to the came the workmen sent a deputation to the owners request-
accuracy of these calculations, I may mention that on finding ing that they should work for long hours. In the fourth
the, age at death of the factory population in one district so mill it was agreed also to work for long hours;
lota as eight years, which appeared really incredible, I went for in consequence of working short hours the wages of the
over the registers a second time, being assisted by a friend people would have been reduced. In one mill many of the
accustomed to such researches, when, finding the extracts operatives were so anxious to earn high wages, that they
and calculations perfectly correct, an explanation of this re- continued working at tea thew when their hours were re-
markable result appeared in the fact, that of every 100 deaths duced. These parties worked by piece work, and in their
a fraction over 61 are infants under the age of two rears, anxiety: they worked during the half-hour allotted fur tea,
while of the other operative classes, in the same locality, the thus working the same time as before, only in a smaller
deaths under two wears are a fraction less than 33 in 100. I compass. In these instances the experiment had been
give below the average age at death, and the deaths under two fairly tried, and the question had been fairly put
years of factory and other operatives, in three districts, to the workmen, and they preferred long hours
'which, differing materially in their sanatory condition, and with high wages. If any of the operatives were anxious for.
containing a large proportion of factory people, afford a short hours it was in the full belief; and in which belief they
fair comparison. The first is a town district, extremely ill- would be disappointed, that they would continue to receive
conditioned as regards ventilation, drainage, and cleaning. the same amount of wages. lii another mill which he would
In this locality the average age at death of factory operatives mention 400 hands all signed in favour of long hours, and
is eight years; other operatives, fourteen years; deaths of in another a majority of 50, in a third a majority of 40, in a
Infants under two years, of factory operatives, 61 1- sth per fourth a majority- of 50, and in a fifth a majority of 103,
cent. ; other operatives 32 3-4tba per cent. In the registra- signed in favour of long hours. In a sixths mill 2i 6 signed
tion district of Bury 'North, exclusive of the above, the for lung hours, and 125 against them. It was
average age at death is, of factory operatives, 9ir years; other his firm belief, that long hours were preferred by
other operatives, 19 years ; deaths of iefants under two the workmen, as it was their conviction that a reduce
years, of factory operatives, 54 3-sths per cent. • other tion of the time of work would be followed by a reduction
operatives, 33, 1-3 d per cent. In Woodhill district, lying a of wages, and they were told that they did not consider the
short distance from the town, and particularly well situated interest of the workmen when they demurred to a measure
as regarcis the health of its population, the general mortality which would inflict an injure:. He would, therefore, by no
of the 'northern suburb, of which it forms a part, being 1 in means accede to the request of the workmen, even if they
44 F-10ths, which is, I believe, about the average of all were in favour of this measure much more generally than
England, and being in this particular locality 1 in 40, the he believed them to be. He was really so little able to ad-
cottages of the operatives being also more roomy, better dress the House, that be would not venture to make
ventilated, and more cleanly than is generally the many further remarks. The question concerned
Case, we find the average factory age 10 years ; not only the interest of the artizans in the
that of the other operatives, 21e years ; the deaths of in- mills, the interest of the manufacturers, and the
rants under two years, of factory parents, 56 per cent.; other large interests of all persons dependent on the cotton
operatives, 33 per cent. In some other districts the disparity mills, and of all dependent on the production of the raw ma-
appears even greater, but the proportion of factory workers terial consumed in the mills, and of all persons who were en-
is as small that Ido not consider the test a fair one. I have gaged in the preptratien of the material : it affected also al
Only further to state that these calculations are made on an those employed in the after processes, and if they reduced
average of seven years, and include every death that has oc- the raw material consumed in the mills, and there became in
,tarred in these localities. They appear calculated to rebut consequence a deficiency in the production of the manufactured
the assumption, that it is the condition of large towns, and produce, the various stages it had to go through subsequently
not the employment in factories, which produces the awful they would affect the interest, not only tof the manufacturers
mortality, particularly of the infant population, iu the mane- themselves, but the interest of large bodies of men on either
lecturing districts. This, you are well aware, has been side, who had no opportunity of expressing their
strongly maintained by several medical practitioners and opinions, but whose interest, nevertheless, was ma-
others. It was to disprove this fallacy that I endeavoured, terially injured. He thought that these were con-
as far as possible, in making these investigations, to aster- siderations of vast importance, which ought not to
tain the relative effect of the two sources of disease and pre- be left out of the question. He had taken it upon the flare
mature mortality, and I am the more especially induced rowest grounds—those grounds upon which they generally
to forward you the above extracts from the tables I have agreed, viz., that the interest of the workmen was materially
constructed, as Sir George Grey appears to have adopted affected, and it was upon those grounds that lie felt it to be
an opinion which lam convinced will prove to be founded his duty to oppose the measure.
on a hasty end superficial examination of this important The Marquis of GRAN BY said that the patient endurance
question. From a report which was presented to of the operatives, and at the same time the conciliating tone
the House in 1834 he found that out of 1,000 deaths in Man- they adopted towards their masters, would naturally cause a
chester, 424 were children tinder two years of age; that in desire to grant their wish. The Right Hon. the Chancellor
Liverpool the number of children under two years of age, out of the Exchequer had said that the wages of the opera-
of 1,000 deaths, was but 362 ; whilst in London, out of 1,000 tives would be reduced. He was ready to admit that,
deaths, only 308 were infants under that age. if they reduced the number of hours the operative
(Hear, hear.) This showed the great want of sanatory had to work, the master manufacturers would find it necen-
improvements, and that the mortality against these child- sary to make up the deficiency by employing more hands.
ren would be less if they were taken more care of by their He thought, likewise, that if they did employ more
parents. The subject had been submitted to them in every hands, the number of workpeople, as an inevitable cones-
possible way : they had been shown how the homes of quence of the principle of competition between the masters
factory workers were left comfortless, in consequence of the would be benefited. He thought that this measure would be
protracted: hours' of labour—how the Saxon mother conferring a great boon on the operatives in the manufacturing
refused to be comforted because her children could not par- districts, and it would not at the same time materially re-
take of it—(Hear, hear)—but then when one died she duce their wages. He; was for some time per-
knew that it had ceased to suffer from prolonged and severs plexed by the argument, that if they did not
toil, and that it had gone to join the army of innocents in reduce the wages there would be no ether
heaven.—(Hear, hear.) He would ask the House means of raising the same quantity of manufactured produce
whether a sufficient case had not been made as they did at present. He thought that with regard to the
out for passing the measure ?—(Hear, hear.) It was women who were now labouring twelve hours per day in
in vain for them to provide parks and athenxums those factories, the reduction of their hours of labour would
for the recreation and instruction of the people, if they did not be followed by so material a reduction in the produce
not at the same time provide them with a few hours to par- as was anticipated. The labour and wages would be more
take of their advantages. They were agreed to the end :it equally distributed over the surface of the manufacturing
was the means only that were objectionable; but if he thought population, who would thereby be materially benefited. On
there was a reasonable chance of an arrangement being come these grounds he should give his support to the Bill.
to between the masters and their labourers he might possibly Dr. 130 W RING said that he acknowledged the philan-
alter his opinion, especially if 1,000 manufacturers in Lance- thropy of the Noble Lord, but it would not be what was called
shire would sign a bond to reduce their hours within the philanthropy to suppport that which would bring misfortune
limit he thought necessary, and pay down a quarter of a upon the labouring community. The discussion was one
million as the guarantee that they would fulfil the condi- which should be entered upon free from all prejudice, and
tions.—(Hear.) But he should think the acute labourers dupes with minds inaccessible to all facts likely to prejudice the
if they consented to any arrangement unless they had judgment. He did not approve of the present measure, for
ample security that it would be carried out. That House he felt convinced that it would not be of any practical'
was not in the habit of waiting until rival steamers in the utility to the poor.—(Hear, hear.) He had heard
Thames had agreed to regulate their speed in the pool, to one of the principal manufacturers in the borough
adopt measures to compel them to do so, supposing he had the honour to represent offer to his workmen
such a step were necessary ; or until master- to engage them for eleven hours a day, but he did not
builders agreed to improve the sanatory regula- attempt to disguise from them what the result of the altera-
tions of the houses they build ; chimney-sweepers not tion would be. He told them that if they did not produce the
to use climbing-boys; proprietors of collieries and butties to same amount of work as in the twelve hours he could
prevent the harnessing of naked women.—(Hear, hear.) not be expected to pay them the same amount of wages.
They did not stop until the proprietors of slaves in the West Ile (Dr. Bowring) understood that a large body of the most
Indies could make some arrangement with their slaves for influential, the most intelligent, and the most wealthy menu-
their emancipation; in these and a thousand other instances facturers had been testing the consequences of the Bill should
they did not want for the parties to come forward, but it become the law of the land, and they all agreed on this
brought the "imperial majesty of the elaw," to whom all point, that it would occasion a general reduction in the
were subject—the lowest as well as the greatest— value of produce in the cotton manufactures. Ile
and which has for its object the vindication of the rights of spoke not of the silk nor of the flax manufacture, but confined
those ordained by God."—(Hear.) It was all very well for his attention to cotton alone, and the return showed a di-
the Hon. Member for Montrose to say, in accordance with minution in the value of production to the extent of 12i per
the doctrines of that school of philosophy to which he belonged cent. Now he might just inform Hon. Members that the
that they ought not to interfere, and to allow the labourers value of the cotton manufactured in this country exceeded
to remain at the mercy of their employers; but were 30,000,0001.; the number of bales required for working up
kings and legislators to do nothing? If they were not to amounted to a million and a half, representing in value
interfere, he was at a loss to understand why they had in- 15,000,000/. sterling, and before it left the manufactory the
terfered with various thincs.and were continuing to interfere, united cost of labour and capital would increase the sum to
If the interference proposed be- the Bill be not satisfactory, 30,000,000/. sterling. The statement added, as the result of
let them point out to him, if they could, a more advisable, a a limitation of the hours of labour, that the annual loss
more safe, a less objectionable mode of intervention, or which would be from 1,800,000/. to 2,000,0001. sterling. Now he
had more noble or more glorious reasons for interference. would inquire on whom this loss would fall. It ap-
Unless the factory operatives came before them and declared peered to him that it could only be borne by one of
that all their past legislation on the subject had been pro- three parties. The first was the consumer, and perhaps
ductive of the. desired good, and that there was no need of it might be more generally distributed in this way at the
the proposed interference, or that danger would result to least amount of individual sacrifice; but the question was
them from it, they were bound to pass the Bill. He ought would the consumer pay this loss—would they rest con-
almost to apologise for touching this part of the subject tented with the extra price which would be charged them.
after the eloquent speech of the Honourable Gentleman the They had already, by their measures of lest year, taught
Member for Edinburgh last year.—(Hear, hear.) He was the people of the country that the only true principle was to
glad that that city had, by its representative, spoken in buy in the cheapest and sell in the dearest market. They had
favour of the Bill.—(Hear, hear.) In a late number of the decided that they were entitled to she benefits of that
Edinburgh Review he found an article, from which he would principle, and the people had a right to require that
read two or three passages which appeared to him " germane they should give effect to it.—Tear.) The consumers
to the matter." Talking of the principle of interference arid therefore would pay no portion o the 2,000,0001. sterling.
the probable consequences to which it led, the reviewer pro- But then they might say, 'The manufacturers are gorged
ceeded in this fashion :—" Once admit the principle that Go- with enormous profits, the manufacturers must pay, and
vernment may rightly exercise such influence—and the usage they are affluent and successful men, wrest, therefore,
of every day sanctions it—and every case seeming to call for from them a portion of their ill-gotten gains." But was
it is argued on its own merits. And so it must be with re- it the fact that the gains of the master manufac-
ference to the limitation of the hours of labour—the most turers were so large as to enable them to continue
reknotty question of the class now before the Public- its sup- manufacturing, when they by their legislation ex-
porters urge that the duration of labour which men engage to acted from them an amount of 2,000,000/. sterling
undergo
istoo much for their bodily and mental health. annually. It was not likely they would do so,
They say that even high wages thus acquired bring little of and therefore after all the loss would fall upon the opera-
blessing with them to men, spiritless from over exertion, in fives themselves. The Hon. and Learned Member then
homes rendered squalid and
uncomfortable,
neither time nor inclination left fir ductiu
because there is proceeded to show by the evidence of Mr. Gregg
hold economy. They say that hasty
the exercise of house- that the profits of the manufacturer,. after de t,
constant improvidence, brutish and ' marriages,
early deaths, the 5 per cent. interest on his money, did not exceed 21/2
irregular habits of living per cent. If the consumer and the capitalist would
are the necessary concomitants of a state of things in which not pay the burden must fall on the labour-
the whole six days are devoted to toil. The y even a
affirmss take
w
n g
away
population, and thus, instead of granting a
that man deteriorates with _these evil influences, not only in boon, the House would, by passing this measure,
his higher qualities, but also in his inferior
capacity
with shorter from them the means of education and the
machine for production, and that,
labour, he ability to procure the comforts of existence. The workmen
might do more or better work. The time is surely past for were, in effect, to be told that one-sixth of their earnings
answering these arguments with mere assertions of general was to be withdrawn, and however willing they might
doctrine. Fair reasons must be given for supposing that the be to work for the extra hour, the manufacturers
point has been already reached (some point there evidently would have no power to accede to their wishes
must be) at which further interference would do more harm by this enactment of the Government. He (Dr. Bow-
by diminishing the productiveness of the fund for the main-
ring) had during his whole lifetime been the advocate
tenance of labour than it could do good by its influence on of the working mac; he had ever sought to obtain for him
the character of the labourer; and since every step which an influence in that House of which he was as yet de-
the Legislature has taken in the same direction has been prived ; his sympathies were all enlisted on his side, and
met by similar objections and denunciations, none of which it was forthatreason,
to loweritwa
becausei
sc!d
o thoughthit
joo
thattheewould
present
have yet been realised, the burden of proof seems to bo measure was
calculated
rather on the opponents than the supporters of further re- oppose the further progress of it.
form." tee (Lord J. Manners) hoped he had stated the Mr. P. HOWARD, in rising to support the measure said
case fairly, and that he had said nothing to irritate or that he would not detain the House with any lengthened
wound any person in the course of his observations. The observations. He could perceive that they were desirous of
Honourable Gentleman talked of Russia, and Germany, testing the question by a division, and he should
and America, but since 1839 no person under sixteen years therefore, not trespass for any time on their attention.
of age, in Germany or Prussia, was allowed to work more The House had already seen that any arrange-
than ten hours.—(Hear.) Throughout Prussia the average ment between the employers and the employed
hoUrs of work of all classes was 11 ; and then the case in was out of the question, and it was therefore necessary for the
America to which he referred was not a good example in Government and that House to
ood of
g
legislate upon the
favour of his argument, as the committee came to subject.
He had hoped that the manufacturers
the opinion they did owing to the presents of England would have copied the example of the
of circumstances which could not he controlled.—(Hear) agricultural warty who iuske {'rear sacrifice for tilt.
What couetry entered most into competition with us. Was it their country—(Laughter)—
!met he might yet ask them to
not America? They compelled the Americans, against their make some little sacrifice, to offer some tribute on the altar
wills, to employ their labourers longer than they desired, by of their country. He would give his most cordial support
enforcing their competition. He considered that the to the second reeding of the Bill.
statements which he tied taken the liberty to air, eiteNTz took the trouble to go to Manchester to sa-
read must satisfy every gentleman that their tisfy himself of the position of the working classes
foreign trade had not suffered from a reduction and the manuferterere, and the result of hie in-
ie
yea eed no c•ae,-; ha•l • Out SP2Cri',l was. OA .1.11 the eiteeeee had been rnede
- heir 6,leigit trade would stiff: r. Ile ,s old there- were entirely for the of the manufacturers, and not for
- .• •
dint ,11.3 time had arrived. - tee sake of tle the workmen —(t' ) The alteration hi the fipcod t.l
working men, and for the sake of the working women of the the machinery, atm the number of spiudles lied been
n
of England, and also for the sake of the master menu- creased threefold, and the quantity of work done
facturers themselves, that this great question should be finally ' was of course double. Though the manual labour