The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-02 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF LORDS, Feb. 1.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool
sack shortly before Five o'clock.
NEW PEERAGE.

The Earl of ELLESMERE was introduced by the Earl
of Wilton and the Earl St. Germans, and having been
sworn took his seat on the Earls' bench
LUNATIC ASYLUMS.

The Duke of RICHMOND gave notice that he should,
to-morrow night, move for the re-appointment of the Se-
lect Commitee on Pauper Lunatic Asylums which had
existed two years ago.
THE POOR IN IRELAND.

After a few words from the Marquis of WEST-
MEATH,
Lord BROUGHAM suggested the propriety of post-
poning the motion until an opportunity had been
afforded of consulting the officers of the courts in
Ireland.
Earl MOUNTCASIIEL, although he thought it a
matter of great importance that the returns he had
moved for should be obtained, still had no objection
to postpone his motion for a short time.
USE OF SUGAR IN DISTILLERIES.
Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition, numerously
signed by landed proprietorsAtenant-farmers, and others,
in the county of Stirling, in Scotland, complaining that
the duty proposed to be levied by the Government of 4id.
per gallon on rum would leave the distilleries of Scot-
land worse by Bd., the present amount of duty levied
upon malt whiskey being 4s. 10d. This was a point,in
the Government plan, which, when it was brought before
their Lordships, would no doubt cause considerable diffi-
culty. It was, however, no pc,rt, of the plan of the Govern-
ment to prevent distillationifrom malt, bat only to admit
auger to be used in distillation pari passu. He would not go
into any discussion on the subject at the present moment.
LIVERPOOL AND THE IRISH POOR.
Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition signed by
the Mayor of Liverpool, Mr. Lawrence, the magis-
trates of the borough, and by several of the
most respectable and opulent inhabitants, calling the
attention of their Lordships to the great additional bur-
den imposed upon that parish by the immense influx of
destitute Irish poor, and praying their Lordships would
pass a law to compel the Irish people to support their
own poor, like the people of this country. The
petition deserved the most earnest attention of
the House. It stated that in fourteen days 11,104
paupers had come over from Ireland and located
themselves in that town, namely, 5,737 men, 3,497
women, and 1,870 children, making an average of 800
per day during the last six weeks. By a letter from the
mayor, it appeared that on Thursday last upwards of
1,100 came over. He said, "Therahave arrived to-day (the
29th) by two steamers only, no less than 1,124, and we
have received information that thousands of persons are
begging their way to the Irish ports in Ireland,
with the intention of seeking food in this
cwoeurnetcryollecatnedby
and chiefly in this town of Liverpool."
These melancholy facts were undoubtedly true, as they
the officers of justice and the muni-
cipalvations on this speßnaufojtyobt
eoejrrseent:chytttibe,cose.unAi nlrolcti Lordships,
71
Ministers the me
i.se
but
ur measures
he
eli
officers. 11e thought it best to postpone any obser-
e
vations
could
lately pro-
posed
thenot
hel
a
pfa
sae we
epfdlaace, se last having
likeayvienaLgr
vi relationee rrptohoel
toer sptehhr b
callingm)r
eahfwt teteetrhrhr. their
Majesty's
had the power of sending immigrants to the
places from whence they came, but they were compelled
to do so at their own expense. The counties wore
compelled, however, to pay a portion of the expense of
this transmission. A subsequent Act was passed
which threw the expense upon the unions. But
the expense was frequently considerable, as delays
often took place in finding their proper settlements,
or that during the interval they were thrown upon an ex-
hausting and exhausted population. Liverpool was
already overburdened with her own poor, and the result
was that these immigrants located themselves in the
poorest districts, and increased the poverty and disease.
That was one object. But there was another evil and
another mischief—that was the mischief which arose
from what he called preaching. Very nice preaching
for the preachers, for it coat them nothing but
for those thhoese
said, it
thew masigka t style
very
tah vary
ryp
r differente
a chees! matter
Bu ,
expensive business for the preach era. like his
friend, Mr. Horsley, who absolutely paid 9001. a year,
for the support of the poor—the Irish poor—on
.the
attheceons t
whom
ebreemseg
ebaulilleddinogeseofefhitshesehard.
warehouses.
Nearteodw, wretches

much abuse had been poured—for, as his late Noble
Friend Lord Ellibank had said, and be perfectly
agreed with him, Chat it was an erroneous doctrine that
the poor were entitled to be fed from the land. It
Was said that they had the land, and that the
joor had_a right to be fed from the land. This doctrine

fie denied. He denied that the poor had any right to
pe fed from the land. Ho denied that the poor had any
right to be fed by the Government, or to have work
trovidod by the Government. But they had a right,
hey had a claim., they had a right to be fed by their

The Marquis of CLANRICARDE laid several papers
on the table relative to the state of the poor In Ireland.
PROPERTY IN IRELAND.
Earl MOUNTCASHEL moved for the returns of
which he gave notice the other night, for all the present-
ments which had been made to the Court of Chancery
in Ireland, and all the attachmt rag that had been issued
by that Court, distinguishing those which respected the
property of lunatics and minors, together with the
accounts showing how far the moneys had been paid
during the last year.
Lord BROUGHAM said it was utterly impossible to
obtain the returns, even if they were confined to the
specific object, at least for any useful purpose.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said, that they could
only be obtained by some officer of the Court searching-
through all the documents which had been presented at
the Court between the Ist of January, 1846, and the Ist
of January, 1847 ; and even if they were obtained, it
would be at so late a period as not to be available for the
present session. At the same time they must, of neces-
sity, be very imperfect.
Lord BROUGHAM—Of course ; for even if the docu-
ments were searched the accounts would be wrong, for the
payments on affairs of previous years would be neces-
sarily mixed up with the return.
Earl MOUNTCASHEL said that his desire was to
obtain a fair representation of the state of affairs in
Ireland, especially when it was likely there would be
great calls upon it ; and that it would prove of great
service if the returns were made, for the information
was necessary not only for the House but for the eounary,
and that was the reason why he desired to obtain them.
They were not sufficiently informed as to the state of
property, or the management of landed property in
Ireland. He was sure that if their Lordships know the
truth they would not form so mistaken a judgment of
the liability of the landlords and those interested in the
soil of Ireland ; still, if their Lordships were of
opinion that this was not the proper mode of
obtaining the information he required, he should be
happy to adopt any other form.
The LORD CHANCELLOR thought the object the
Noble Lord bed in view might be obtained by the adop-
tion of a cimplo form, namely, by stating the amount
paid by receivers in that year, and moneys paid in to
account of lunatics.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE did not think that
a motion so worded would answer the purpose, for it
would altogether depend on the manner in which the
tenantry paid the rents. As far as he (the Marquis of
Clanricarde) could understand, his Noble Friend com-
plained that they paid no rents at all. He understood
his Noble Friend to wish for a return of the real state
of property in Ireland, and he thought, therefore, that
some way should be adopted to get from the receivers
the sums paid in by thorn to the Masters in Chancery.
The Earl of MOUNTCASHEL then withdrew his
motion.
IRELAND.—MORTGAGED ESTATES.
The Earl of MOUNTCASHEL then moved for a
return of the total amount of the sums appearing to be
due for debt, damages, and costs, upon all decrees, orders,
and judgments in Ireland, re-docketed pursuant to the
Act of 9th Geo. IV., cap. 35, or registered pursuant to
the 7th and Bth Viet., cap. 99, and now appearing to be
re-docketed or registered in the office for registering
judgments in Ireland ; distinguishing those which are
in debt from those which are in case.
The Marquis of WESTMEATH thought that if this
motion were carried out the officers of the Court would
be always employed upon it and the other business of
the office. If the Noble Lord could frame his motion in
such a way as not to incommode or hinder the other
business of the Courts, he should be very happy to give
his consent to it, but, as at present framed, the motion
was quite impracticable.
The LORI) CHANCELLOR agreed with the Noble
Lord who had last spoken, that the order would, in the
first place, be impracticable, and, in the second, useless,
if obtained. When it was so eery difficult to find out
a judgment in one particular case, he would leave
their Lordships to judge of the impracticability when
applied to all mankind. They would have a return of
debts comprising, perhaps, two or three hundred mil-
lions, and yet they would not be able to say what pro-
portion of that sum remained unpaid.
Lord BROUGHAM—There was another reason
which completely demonstrated the inutility of the re-
turn. In every case the balance remaining unpaid was
no test whatever of the burdens affecting landed pro-
perty in Ireland, because it only applied to
such property as came into the Court of
Chancery or any of the courts of common law. If a
proprietor were fortunate enough to keep out of the
Court of Chancery or any of the courts of law, no
matter how much his estates were mortgaged, the
court would have no knowledge of it.
Earl MOUNTCASHEL said that had he moved for
a return of the four courts his motion would then have
been open to the objections urged against it; he had,
however, only moved for a return of " the total amount
of the sums appearing to be due for debt, damages,
and costs, upon all decrees, orders, and judgments,
in Ireland re-docketed pursuant to the Acts of 9 Geo.
IV., c. 35, and 7 and 8 Viet., c. 99." Under the letter
of those Acts a particular office was established, in
which was to be registered all the different claims
to the property in Ireland. Since the passing of
that Act those claims had been registered, and it was
only a return of those claims so registered that he wished
to obtain by his present motion.
The LORD CHANCELLOR—The Act of 9th Geo.
IV. was passed a great many years since, and, in order
to obtain the returns made under that Act, a great deal
of trouble and extensive research would be required.
All the judgments had no doubt been re-docketed since
the time of the judgments having been delivered, and the
result, when obtained, would give only—
Lord BROUGHAM—An erroneous view.
The LORD CHANCELLOR--Just so ; and the
first of his objections would still remain unanswered
namely, what amount of debts remained at present
unpaid.

tooktr odthne ed oanthys
his
scl
brother
Mr. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Feb. 1.
The SPEAXEE took de Chair at Four o'clock.
NEW MEMBER.
en
Mr. J. O'Connell.
a ',C
haying
n i
j ,
RAILVAY BILLS.
for if.Dr npd. On
c
Reports were brought ip from the Examiner of several
Bills, and the following sere read a second time :
Bristol sad Exeter Raiway (Branch from ea Bl don to
Wells, Glastonbury, ad Street).
East Lincolnshire Railyay (Deviation at Boston, and
Branch to Great Grimby and Sheffield Junction Rail-
way at Grimsby).
East Lincolnshire Railvay (Branch from Louth to
Lincoln).
Glasgow, Barrhead, andNeilston Direct, and Glasgow
Southern Terminal Ralways Amalgamation.
Glasgow, Barrhead, and Neilston Direct Railway.
Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmanock, and Ayr Railway, and
Glasgow and Belfast Lnion Railway (No. 1),
Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmanock, and Ayr Railway (No. 4).
Hartlepool West Harbotr and Dock (Dock Extension).
Hartlepool and Stock ton Junction Railway.
Leeds Central Railway Etation
London and North-Weston Railway (Newport Pagnell,
&c., Branch).
London and North-Weston Railway (St. Alban's, Luton,
and
Dunstable Branch)
London, Brighton, and Seth Coast Railway (London-
bridge Station, Enlargement, and Arrangement).
London, Brighton, and Seth Coast Railway (Extension
to London-bridge.)
London-bridge Railway "ermini General Enlargement.
London, Brighter!, and S'aith Coast Railway (the Kent
Railway to Maidstone, ;anterbury, and Tunbridge).
Manchester, Sheffield, aid Lincolnshire Railway (Sup-
ply of Surplus Water to Manchester, Salford, and
Stockport).
Manchester, Sheffield, andLincolnshire Railway (Station
Approach in Manchestei).
Manchester, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire Railway (Branch
from Ashton• under-Lyno to Oldham).
AMALGAMATION OF RAILWAYS.
On the motion for the second reading of the Bill for
the amalgamation of the Manchester, Sheffield, and Lin-
colnshire Railway with the Midland Railway,
Mr. ELLICE said, that as this was the first Bill for
amalgamation introduced this session, he begged to give
notice that to-morrow week he should ask a question of
the Noble Lord at the head of the Government whether it
was the intention of the Ministry to bring in any Bill re-
specting the amalgamation d lines of railway? He should
do this because he had last session the honour of being
chairman of the Committee appointed to consider the
amalgamation railways, and be therefore thought it his
duty to draw the attention of the House to great abuses
which had been found to exist. In one case, in conse-
quence of the notice of amalgamation of one line, from
which it was ant'cipated that only a revenue of three per
cent. would accrue, but for which an agreement was entered
into to pay the lessors tee pa cent., the capital was so
raised in value that the proprietors were enabled to raise
the capital to 250 per cent. in value. The Committee
over which he presided had accordingly made a report
to the House strongly drawing the attention of the Go-
vernment to the reports of several of the lines for which
Bills had been obtained, and expressed a hope that
some measnres would be taken in the present session
to remedy the evil. As it was now known that several
of the companies who obtained their Bills last session,
but who had not put a spade into the ground, were
coming to the House for powers of amalgamation, he
trusted the Government would provide some means of
stopping the abuses to which he referred.
Mr. HODGSON said, that in the case to which refe-
rence had been made, no doubt great mischief had en-
sued,
but the evil had not extended to any of the direct
n
orthwitrd and south ward lines. He trusted, however,
that the recommendation would be d atte dto
attended by the
Government.
Mr. STRUTT •
quite agreed that this was a subject of
great importance, and a Bill was already in a very for-
ward state of
preparation, which would be introduced at
as early a period as possible; Mbut as his Hon. Friend the ember for Coventry had given notice of the question
he intended to
himself of propose to-morrow week, he would avail
that
opportunity to enter more fully into ex-
planation of the The ntended provisions of the Bill.
Manchester and Lincolnshire
was then read aAmalgamation Bill
second time.
s SECOND READINGS.
The iollortirig Billa were geo read a moond