The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-06 00:00:00

I spoke of the greasyaccumulation of criminals in this ec.
which the plan proreesed would cause; but with reit:rel
that he would ask, was not the facility of controlulinage
greater at home than abroad, where they wou'd be .
immediate eye of the Government? He also expressed
trd
to the propriety of interfering. with the er
assignment, but it was well known that that was a Voe
tb
system, and in the great majority
the same relation to each other as in a state of slaver):.
of cases the part' e
evidence taken before the Committee on this subine,er,
which Sir William iNlolesworth presided, it was show
offii;
condition of the convicts was most degrading and demerer'or
They were told besides that if the system proeose3 the cle
out, and the late system of transportation abolished,
no 10,
would be extremely injurious, and there would be• ire (l
any safety for society. His Noble and Learned Foe
0,
nt,
Denman) also adduced the case of a wealthy receive!:
property, whose punishment in case of convictio.o;
be evaded. Did the Noble Lord know, re
what had happened under the late
system tell
portation? If not he (Earl Grey) would etl ia
co';
A receiver of seolen goods of enormous wealth hadcr
victed some time since, and sentenced to be transpee7lo
managed to evade the law as to forfeiture of th di
of felons, and brought it with him to New Sou
of ash'
When he arrived there he got himself assigned, an% 0 el
time was as well off under this system of assignmee
he was in the city of London. —( Laughter.)
Lord STANLEY—That could not be done nob'
Earl GREY only adduced the case to show the totem,
system was one which was very susceptible of irePreoteie
Under the existing system of transportation, a non :out it
to fourteen years was sent to Van Dieman's Land, an no.
a penal gang. and if he exhibited good conduct, afterer-I'
of eight years he got a conditional pardon, whieh,lnetbes
free, except that he must not return to Englenetungeet
he might go to India, China, or other countries. 011
system proposed, instead of being sent to Van Ther°,ll,,,
the offender was immediately to be put into Penseel!iirript,
was not sent into a penal gang, where little or o'oo
was maintained, but he was placed in separate one vat
with discipline so severe, that the Noble Duke (th 11 ,yes'
Richmond) said eighteen months' continuance of it riodt
too much for human nature ; and at the end of there Tv
was removed into penal labour on the public works' but t;
was, therefore, penal labour under both systeoss,
difference consisted in this, that under the
m' etio
system the offender would be put under an ,00:
and effective system of discipline. But then, after Tr I.o'
time, the criminal should be sent out to Van Dentin
where he would find himself in the same condition all 00.
he had begun to bear his punishment in Australia, for e
receive a conditional pardon, and at the end of the tioor,
be discharged free in that country, as under the systeattioo,,l
sent existing. He had always admitted that transport:le
far as it provided a refuge for the offender after his Peneoolo,
was at an end. was of the greatest possible use, for are”loilie
offered an opportunity which could not be found in thetiottY
country. But his Noble Friend opposite had sat't,„,
evils resulting to the colonies from the old system of —reeler
tation might have been prevented if the most comfit° 'le"
tions had been taken. But he ( Earl Grey) asked boo
olje!,
to pass that the evil results of that neglect had growelrosss
tinued for a term of six years? Why, such a state ofthieg-po!
not have existed for six months in this country, whedredet,°°
opinion would not have permitted it to continue; en Ft"
doubt was an advantage to be derived from the sYsteorreiS,
posed to be adopted, that their officers were under tm.hesie
and strict surveillance, that evils could be instantly. % thel
and results modified. For it was not the rules wl.°oistel
might have upon paper which affected the system as "soil
which would always be guided by the rules that were octiS
in force. His Noble Friend had very good rules dale (10
the regulation of the penal colony, but where was tDos
which they produced? But it was urged by the rob fr'
that a system of penal labour would not be tolerated.
people. He (Earl Grey) asked whether that Oro I,O°A,
argument in favour of transportation ? For if Eng'ea„eldti
not bear that which was for their own advantage' stoe
expect that a small community in Van Dieman's Lien, stVs
hear it ? Were they now to treat the colonies tell-g'
Englishmen more and more felt the necessity of bile ti:l
institutions tinder which they had been trained• djoie
had come when these institutions must be introduce to Vail
their colonies, and he trusted in the present sessi°flebes
in a measure to that effect. The time was come -over
advantage of representative Government must be gribets4l.
Australia. The Noble Duke had said that exile from
tire land and their famili'.s was felt by offenders te I
punishment and a great trial. He ( Earl Grey) brtd',l,
of opinion that these sacred ties of human nature 01.bel10
made a means of punishment. It was certain that bsel,jv
tuated criminal possessed few of these finer feeling Jeer,
nity. It was also certain that the profession Abed
had but few family ties to attach hen °lel
tst
and it was only the man who had been hett3l.
the first beginnings of crime that would feel —Pete
Noble Duke had described. If, however, it appeared rbvsrd thjs
them ever to use this as a means of punishment, the Yep
power of doing so while the prisoner was at Penton 0.,
Portland, by excluding for a longer or shorter periodii
munication with their friends or families' seri °ll
old days of tr nsportation, he said they use. „t trio
out the wife of the family with the offender, w.,.picie'r
custom was discontinued, with the most Pe', t
effects. The Government intended, tbere_rflro'i this
send out the wife and family after a certain neri7ecicsl;
offender's punishment had been endured, and he 8"eo-Irl
that these intentions of the Government being est',oee?",
with proper precaution would be beneficial even to.thefo;.
In fact, there was a demand its some of the colonies dbor:
but for those who were not hardened, and corruptt
less, such as were sent before. It had been o
this new system would necessitate a large expeteitt ,set
those persons. Now, the fact was, if they thee;
them to the colonies, provision must be made for them, bee,
whether, therefore, at home or abroad, provision mes'ediseS
ready ; and, indeed, Portland would be in a state of,
very soon, for the reception of prisoners. The n'°„eyystew
concluded by expressing his hope that the propose" t
,
would tend to diminish crime, and reform the offenders:lid oo
Lord DENMAN rose to explain. He said he cislll
wish to be misunderstood by their Lordships, and eke, Os!
the Noble Earl who had just sat down. When it was s!n
when a man was sentenced to seven years' transportati'd sof
was sent to the hulks for four years, he did not hesitate t 00
that in the hulks the man, for anything an one
one knew, slf' tire
his way to the colonies, and it appertaiued t the agent 'Lae
Crown to pardon him at the end of four years. But toaa ot
the nature of the punishment pronounceiiupon him R Ad
legal, and it was not competent for them to do so exalt by
u a'
of Parliament passed for the purpose. He would nut
I":teeee,
deretoodas defending the system of transportation in n
In his opinion it was an abominable practice.
After a few words from the Marquis of SALISBURY ac
°
the table, the Bills were then read a second time.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, March 5.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock. _
Papers from the Poor-law Commissioners Were r
sented.
al 54°
The second reading of the Leominster —ll/1
Navigation Bill was postponed for a week.
SECOND READINGS. ,
apd
The following Bills were read a second toile'
ordered to be committed:—
Bo (fast Port and Harbour.
Cambridge, SL Neot's, and Bedford Junction 11111,1 ratir
East Lancashire Railway (Clitheroe, Mitten, an
ham, Branches).
in°
Edinburgh and Northern Railway (St. Am-ire-
w
Newburgh Harbour, Branches, and Road Cross
jeg
Newport Railway Extension). a A$
Great Northern Railway (Branch to llorncastle 0
Brayford Mere, Lincoln).
London and North-Western Railway (Linie'fitre'6
Liverpool, Station Extension, &e.) di 011
L'oidon and North-Western Railway (Portobe•-°
Wolverhampton Branch, &c.) dretel
Newcastle and Berwick Railway (Crarnlington to--
Main, and Kil ling;worth and other Branches).
T:iw Vale Thilway and Dock. foil°
York and Newcastle Railway (Hartlepool Dock 0(100r
way, and Great North of England, Clarence, at)",
tlepool Junction Railway, Lease and Purchai.,jTllP
THE LONDON SEWAGE CHEMICAL IMA'
COMPANY.
Sir DE LACY EVANS brought in this Bill, I/bids
was read a first time.

MALT.
Mr. BROTIIERTON presented two petitions, c)fitef
tbo
which was from a place in Devonshire, praying °tilt 14
House would pass a law to prevent the use of Intl
the purpose of distillation during the present call°.
ROMAN CATHOLIC RELIEF BILK Oil
Sir R. H. INGLIS presented petitions Against
Bill.

AVITION .
Mr. 3,IITCALNFE presented a pLAWSetition from shipoviller°
in North Shields against the repeal of these laws'
LIGHT DUES. .e,
Mr. HUME presented a petition from the sbir"n al
of the port of Arbroath complaining of the burn
the light dues.
effect'
Mr. FORSTER presented a petition to the same
PUNISIINIENT OF DEATH. iety
Mr. HUNIE presented a petition from a sc'e..ris,
London calling themselves " Free-thinking Christi-11,
praying for the abolition of the punishment of deilt
RAJA OF SATTARA. .0115'
Mr. B. ESCOTT presented a petition from the I tog
bitants of Westminster, agreed to at a public or 1:1,
over which General Sir De Lacy Evans presiu°
support of the claims of the Raja of Sattara. patter°
Sir B. HALL presented a petition from St• • -
to the same effect.

lIIGLIW ACT.
Mr. DUNCOMBE presentAY d a e petition from!" lito>o
lac°
in the Isle of Wight, praying fur an amendment I°
Acts.

UNIVERSAL PEACE. e
Mr. lIINDLEY presented a petition from the
mince of the Society for Promoting Universal rell-bol
(Laughter)—stating that they considered the !louse
adopted a very erroneous course in increasing the
and navy estimates, and stating that the only. *'olo
promote the safety of the nation was, by inculcati",„ 0
principles of universal love and justice, and not P,14,)
blind reliance upon brute force.—(Renewed
He entirely concurred in the prayer of the Paid°.
(Cries of ‘• Order, order," and laughter.)
FAT.
Mr. TOLLE .lACHENATIONAL presented S a
petition in ail110
of a day being set apart for fast and humiliation.
ROMAN CATHOLIC RELIEF BILL-
The Earl of SURREY presented a petition from
place in Warwickshire in favour of this Bill.
LAWS OF QUARANTINE.
Dr. BOWRING desired to know whether any ch!ggpeol:
had taken place in the laws of quarantine? and, if d,
hether the Vice-President of the Board of Tr
ii
would have any objection to place them upon the table

of the House?' -
Mr. MILNER GIBSON, in answer to the otu e
had to say, that the only new regulation which he i",13-ni
of was, that ships from Turkey, having clean bil'a, 1,
health, and in which there was no suspicion of sic'
ness, were free from quarantine.
POOR LAW FOR IRELAND.
Mr. POULETT SCROPE presented a petition (rota
a palish in the county of Cork, which stated that cher?
were many thousand persons there suffering from desni
lotion, and that such did not arise from any want °f.
property in the neighbourhood, but from the absence of
many proprietors, and the refusal of others to supper,
the poor ; the petitioners prayed for a complete poor
law, similar to the English.
Mr. LABOUCHERE presented a petition from the
Commissioners or Cashel, praying for union rating.
?DJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.
On the motion of Mr. PARKER, it was agreed that
the .house at its rising should adjourn till Ildonday.