The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-02 00:00:00

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rhult would have been also different, and what had now been
7ecessful, would have been successful.
~.tle CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER having
11, UME said that they should get the best terms for the
se they could, and if they had put up the loan so as to raise
the'recleetition, they would probably have got better terns. He,
tliktele'rei did consider that the publie did not get a fair
:ir• WILLIAMS considered that there had been no corn-
th). eei if it was not a secret, he would desire to know who
„tee parties were who made the offer for the loan.
sc!_e CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that it
tiPO secret, for that it was probably very well known by the
"I'ci that they were the Messrs. Rothschild and the Messrs.
ng,
After
theri same conversation the resolution was agreed to, and
noese resumed.
et the POOR RELIEF IRELAND BILL.
eiq_e order of the day that the House do go into a corn-
Cr? the of Relief Ireland Bill,
6isee °HN RUSSELL said that he did not rise with any
lisseelaof provoking a discussion but in order to let the
tic„, know earlier than it otherwise would what his inten
sit I`.o'e.,re, he proposed that they should go into committee
tineeett"'Y next, and that they at present would go into com-
ah4 pro fi"iia• With respect to the first clause of the bill,
een suggested that although the guardians were re-
etst o relieve the destitute out of the workhouse, yet, that
orto tfrught arise where owing to the workhouse being filled,
iltitdiaet:eri it would be impossible to fill it, and the
ee,e ci therefore, refuse to give relief. In order to
trshbt such mistakes' from occurring, a clause should be in-
tlitb'il7l, requiring relict to be afforded to the full extent of the
to ct.iiY of the union. In clause 9, the Government propose
Pleelhthe liability of persons to be rated. They proposed to
sessnt e charge of maintaining the poor up to. a
exceededcenain
large2l. ed.in neon the electoral distr let, but that where it
the pound it should be charged to the union at
Ittrdi They also proposed to alter the number of ev-rfficro
,ans• In England, all magistrates, who served as
le"Ltates in the union, were members of the board
gl,"(liaris• In Ireland, however, they were elected
It Est
number of ene-third of the whole board.
tit ,b'ae Government proposed was, that the magis-
elected to the number of one half of the whole body.
Tst%'gOald_lik.ewise introduce. a clause similar to that in the
tine ages Relief Bill, giving power to the Government to re.-
ditty, andvd of guardians for the non-performance of their
°as Placing paid guardians to act in their stead. There
shreatitch.ther point to which he would allude. The House were
Isd" in England poor relief was not given to persons who
The lisaffieient means of subsistence of their own.
lifenb'ase might recollect that it was proposed by the Hon.
rviee):ir far Dublin that no relief should be given to persons
less thug above half an acre of land. If they said that per-
*tiled be required te possess any land whatever, there
liceed then a danger that some, indeed many, poor persons,
plot deprived of the occupation of a cottage, or their little
101.501 garden. On the other hand, should relief be given to
date,:' Possessed of any land whatever, there would be a
°f giving enceuragement to persons of small
rflugv, which would, as had been suggested to him,
eosme°'t dangerous to the general prosperity of the
to °its The small holdings had been represented
two most prominent evils in Ireland. Between those
,they-t,°,_" ,
of danger the Government were undecided, and
Jet,* r'ed to take some time for consideration. Her Ma-
tiai ta"overnrnent, however, felt the necessity of some defini-
'Ned 1,0 what class of persons should be entitled to relief. He
aiit''tl conclusion, propose to go into Committee pro f,)rma,
kit; stole. should then proceed with the other two Bills as quickly
e SHAW said that he understood the proposition it the
thefir "°rd to be as follows: With reference to
11l 54,5 t clause, he intended to grant relief to
tia 'night require it. Now, he would suggest
,; fee: to relief would neeessitate a law of settlement.
tight )-ent, the House should recollect, there was no absolute
tl4O ?relief existing in Ireland. With regard to the second
sane, iiite perfectly acquiesced in it ; and with respect to
.the
t'llatt,sei that no relief should be charged as far R 3 possible
gist )11 e meality, and that where it exceeded a certain sum
totc, lo it should be charged upon the union at large, he also
ißsie:iredt for as at
i present advised he saw no tangible objection
) S pl'Ach a principle.
vdre;;HERT PEEL wished to know whether the Noble
'ble—e the vestry the same right in the union as they had in
11,
dins; 'HAW asked whether he was to understand by the
which refused relief to those holding land, if those in
°Vt'tl:°° of certain small holdings would be entitled to relief,
tiot 4t all with large holdings, above a certain amount, should
1" lt„itted to relief?
talrled",.."RN RUSSELL said, in regard to the first question
114 i `'oll. and Learned Gentleman, in reference to the
itsitesedgl,!ing the right of cut-door relief, the guardians were
Lt ;° give out-door relief when the workhouse was full.
shi:;e:t necessary to make this provision, supposing such a
toe *hall arise as that the people might be starving, at a
Rss to
they could not be admitted into the workhouse. It
till;meet
s„ an emergency of that kind, and to empower the
ht thlisl to give relief out of door. As to the question put
thecadoff
e,ght Hon. Baronet, he said it would not be exactly
liffe-'„e as it was in England, for in England there was this
Irelands
that relief was given in full; but it was not the
'relssie of the Government to make it exactly similar in
A r. pen
'aci „ `-IN O'CONNELL thought that the clause intro-
and 'be ex-officio guardians would work very badly in Ireland ;
Rion) ! feared, that as regarded religious questions and reli-
th Ginstructions to the inmates of the workhouse, he hoped
Pcoe teet rnatent would introduce some means which would
!CSir
tahtNeeis in that
ore in
wNayORREYS scald he was surprised at the
s': Lord
he had been guided in introducing. the
ti,:..g.Ctlauses into the Bill. That Noble Lord had partially
houelttila. the question before the house, and he was bound to
thm he the opinion of the House ; but he understood
Irish ig had allowed himself to be guided by some of the.
Pitt.., embers. Had he taken the opinion of the whole Irish
smelt Perhaps complaint would have been out of place; but he
ieei, )11,ilowirig the complaints made from Ireland. on the su
°Ppsist-,,-”e brought it before the House, and given them an.
°l'alio-n`tY of snaking their statements and laying down their
Lora ee° °Pon it. In common sense and justice, the Noble
fled su'r bound to have taken this course, and not to have set-
" gettj,da question in his private closet. He might say it was
esrae fthe Noble Lord had made up his mind, an he
110,4 avveard with his opinions and pressed them upon d the
e' and they were not likely to be able to change them. He
1,11-i lost all confidence in him as a leader. All the confidence
th.2a had been begotten by his conduct on the Factory Bill,
4143,1100 th Bill, and other gliestions.
Olt. M. J. O'CONNELL said the Hon. Gentleman wished
have discussion, and he promised he would have an opportu-
brY; he hoped to see the question of rating, of a uniform rate,
ought before the House. His opinion was, that any patching
'4O tinkering of a mease would be injurious, as they would
°a out ere five years ha urd
elapsed.
g2llr. SMITH O'BRIEN could not allow that opportunity
tb-_Pass without protesting against the proposed constitution of
lLboard of guardians. The Noble Lord, it was well known,
e-s'wt_he popular support for his Government, and yet he came
ard with a proposition to make one-third or one. fourth of
litet-iw„hole beard ex officio members, and thereby bade for op-
t' -„T.,°°. He thought if persons were fit to be guardians they
thc,,"' be elected by the ratepayers, and if they did not have
is
badlygua ri,!°nfldencedians of the poor and the ratepayers, they ought not
), POVLETT SCROPE said that many improvements
tteCetell made in the Bill—many more had yet to he mad:.
Ind he must observe that in those made already,
great tat's° allowed that evening by the Noble Lord,
land]the oncessions had been made in favour of
tnee,ord. There was one, however, which he must
th,,,tt°,o with all prominency in justice to the Noble Lord, via ,
th, welch gave the right of out-doer relf, at least, where
I%s„„wcirkhotise was full. As in England, sore
in Ireland, he was
44,0' Where the law was that no one should be allowed to
reli,7' for then the poor man might in either country claim
the rioender the law. At the same time he did not think that
oneale Lord would have left it to the guardians to starve
the erion of thepeople at their will. liut he admitted that
Thei.-kase was a very large concession in favour of the liner.
Otf;itl•edee7lnas one clause which gave the Commissioners the right
s, g outdoor relief to all classes of the poor. That was
fall
advantage and much in favour of the poor, but he was
'all; 'to) ace it limited only to tines; when the workhouse wasd
rateietee,;(:,hieon it might be considered dangerous to a -
case of infection from fever. The. next
ttacin"" in favour of .tie ratepayer was, the clause intro-
cone g the
; eZ °ffiCio d' s That' he considered, was a great
litios"fti arid onef which he doubted not but that the
1110,11:hae‘'14121tger. Anotherrnm oncession was, that small far-
A-ei -,,thu not be allowed to claim relief unless they gave up
'id noltu- That was not a provision in the Scottish law, it
'Welk require the poor farmer to give up his croft before it
Ale,ll)°°' relief.
ke, is* MAULE.—I does not allow relief.
141„ f the • but it did not make. it neces-
'„ isaer'nee small fanner, previous to his receiving aid, to give
tort of ; and for saying that he was supported by the last re_-_
Isele`ue Poor-law Com-missioners' inquiry for Scotland. If
°f land the law should be that farmers of three or four achrest
T.°ltet ands
there were several hundreds of such t
,(rrtis'';-;" it should be necessary for such to give up their
the eleetel,thee fell into circumstanes of difficulty and distress,
Polar would be ruinous, and the law would be most unpo-
--l• --knother clause in the sill worthy of attention, was.
2"fine the out -door relief to the permanently die-
4. 3ou
10% oied, otelt not know exactly
.how that phrase. permanently
ti,„ • 13nt :I,4_ti be explained, for. It was a new distinction in the
of The this he knew, that it dis.tinguis_hed_a very small por-
erjrireiss; Nor recipients of relief in England. The Poor-law
nnins.:e" in this country had divided all the classes of the
. Med but ine, and this class of permanently disabled
ut ace
50,4 of these. He was sorry to think that this pro-
Persons ~°-s:" offer but very' inadequate relief to the class of
tad -‘lO ought really to have come under that designation,
Prop,r regretted it the more so as Government, by taking
;mete steps
ow. and making adequate provision for the poor in
entin eleountry, would have adopted the best means of pre-
Asea; .
et crowds 0 poor
fthat immigrated into this country
et, . .
'arid "he relief which they could not obtain in their
••• oble One thing he was anxious to know from the
Pthret,ssion ",:f° Was, what-steps be meant to, take for the sup-
s _lt in „e mendicancy and vagrancy . He recollected
Lord, d, in Poor-law Bill introduced .by the
fN h
tPpreti;ecember 1837, there were clauses introduce or the
°rd,che,`! of naendicancy and vagrancy, and that the No e
oases,ra_ui that occasion based the whole Bill upon these
tplesti,rl
Wattrpririciple of suppressing these. The clauses in
the Hoetre however expunged after they l
left the Commons,one,
Having SaLise, of Lords, and passed without them in 83s
till a t Qull much, he would postpone what be had to say
arr. L,ls,seeasion.
Pa that
vsu'incie:lreaediieol't(! had a question to task of the Noble Lord at
the Government. It was, how far was it his intent-
workhoue test should be earned out before ou
alrePr°Perl granted He hoped also that while this matter
e4ThaideYeeacr.ended to, the subject of union-rating would be
etrn 'it by eke as the system of electoral voting was much de-
r. CALE`ATIi Jreland.
the t onion-e t•
ten.
ereani lastly
s of
treaintingo.f wished to say a fewtd
awoerds on the
„ericitisena
Cao:intg: He had lately presensteena
ofp ratingtition from
than
mace or soatifacti for a more eatensivesy
He was decidedly of opinion that unless a
Feting was established, there would be no
Proposal on in Ireland. He also regretted to hear h
r the Government for increasing the number of
!litend `" guardians, as it would cause great dissatisfaction, and
nave ZeTel!aities c.in to the boards who in many instances would
e verest in the raising of the rates they were called on
Mr, TiNtr•
tvloeh, of
r_ZGERALD agreed with the Government in the
In 50tw'sting proposed in the Bill.
Lord er to a question from Mr SHAW
°onside/At "N RUSSELL said the Government had under
un a Vagrancy Act for Ireland.
The vleuse then went into Committee on the Bill.
°0141341 Was agreed to pro forma, and ordered to be re-
LA on Monday next.
L N)ED PROPERTY (IRELAND) BILL.
fur °l'd
j°lll4 RU"' o
iinRUSSELL moved that the order of the day
P°nF into Committee on this Bill be read, in order to post-
i‘eit. Nlonday next.
the O'BRIEN complained of the postponement
th and . •.
, considered great inconvenience would arise
ore, -In: At
oft p-eaent time the people rover engaged on
an unpro,lactive nature, and y day lost
el
Lo the seal
seri°, iniereyraent of the present Bill would be inflicting a
POsedi that lreland. With respect to the poor-law pro-
las not a measure to enrich Ireland.

ever believe that free trade would lead to more harmony be-
tween foreign countries and Great Britain, But it was not be-
cause free traders were disappointed in that respect, that he
was disposed not to listen to any unwise or foolish reductions in
our military or naval establishment, nor was he inclined in any
way to expose the security of the c ointry to the intrigues of
foreign nations.—( Hear, hear. )
Dr. BOWRING said the Noble Lord had evidently taken
an erroneous view of the opinions of free traders. He had
heard with regret some of the favourable terms of olden times,
such as silly and miserable rednctions, rash retrenchments, and
so forth, for he believed the people entertained a strong hope
that the military and naval establishments of the country would
be diminished. For himself, he thought our merchants were
a far better protection to the country than either the army or
the navy, and whatever might hereafter pass on the hustings,
he could only say that he had already received more than one
strong remonstrance, more that; one severe lesson from his con-
stituents, to take care not to lend himself to any unnecessary
augmentation of the funds appropriated to the support of the
army and navy.—( Hear, hear.) Unlimited control was placed
in the hands of the Government over the finances of the
nation, and they ought to show their respect of that confidence
by economising in the army and naval departments as much as
possible.--( Hear, hear.)
Mr. WILLIAMS would make but a very few observations
at this period of the debate. He was quite prepared to admit
that any expenditure, however extravagant, would be defended
by professional gentlemen connected with the army and navy,
so far as they were concerned ; and perhaps they were justified
in doing so.—( Hear, hear.) He had hoped that the Noble
Lord the Prime Minister would have followed the example
of the Governments of Earl Grey and Lord Melbourne
of which the Noble Lord himself was a distinguished member.
The first act of Earl Grey, after reforming the House of Com-
mons, was to propose a reduction in the expenditure in the
army and navy ; and when Lord Melbourne came into office, he
made various further reductions in several departments, till at
last they were brought down to something less than eight mil-
lions. Ile was surprised to hear, the other night, the Right
Honourable the Secretary for the Admiralty, state, that the
available army for Great Britain only amounted to 20,000 men.
Now so far from this being the case in the year 1836, reducing,
from the aggregate number, the men required for Ireland and
the colonies, there was left a force of 77,000 men disposable in
Great Britain, which could have been brought down to the
coast at any moment, to destroy the French army had they at-
tempted an invasion —( Hear and laughter.) It was therefore
hit intention to propose a reduction of twenty
thousand men when the Estimates came before
them, and still,' after that reduction was made, the army would
consist of 32,084 men more than it did in 1835. He should
propose that the Horse Guards be reduced to 500 men, and he
could not see how the House could reasonably object to this,
for no one ever saw to many as s(io guards on duty at once.—
( Hear, hear.) He would also propose a reduction in the Foot
Guards of just one half, viz., from 5,260, to `2.630; the cost of
this reduction would be 105,452/.—(Laughter)—the cost of
the reduction of the Life Guards would be 115,040/.--(Laugh-
ter)—making a total cost in the reduction of these two depart-
ments of 220,4921.—( Renewed laughter.)
Mr. B. DISRAELI—Is that the cost of the reduction?
Mr. WILLI AAI S—Yes.--( Continued laughter.) The
Hon. Member then went on to allude to the dead weight of
the country—the pension list. The total amount of pensions
was 3,702,0001. A great portion of those who received these
sums had done nothing for the public service. He had no ob-
jection to see merit and services duly rewarded ; he would
maintain in respectability every body who had lost his Ffe in
the public service—( Loud laughter)—or rather his widow and
children. The Hon. Member then proceeded to state lis be-
lief that if this country were to reduce its military establish-
ments,
France would do the same ; and proceeded at some length
to show that the financial condition of that country rendered it
imperatively necessary for the French Government to adopt
that course.
Mr. BROTHERTON protested against the time of the
House being wasted in the manner it had been by the llon.
Member who had just sat down. He should feel it his duty,
if the course were pursued, to move the adjournment of the
House.—( Hear, hear.) It was a great interruption to public
business.—( Hear, hear.) He thought the House ought to go
into Committee, and get at once to business.—( Hear, )
The House then went into a Committee of Supply.
ARMY ESTIMATES.
Mr. FOX MAULE said he thought the Hon. Member for
Coventry (Mr. Williams) would not quarrel with him if he
stated his opinion to the House, that he thought they were
much indebted to the Hon. Member fur Salford ( Mr. Bro-
therton) for the remarks he had just made. It would have
been much more convenient to have discussed the several
points which had been adverted to by the Hon. Member as
they had arisen in Committee, than that he should have made
a statement mixing up together the army, the navy, and the
orunance, and thereby rendering it almost impossible to meet
at once the Irish police, the Archbishop of Dublin, and the
numerous other complaints of the Honourable Member.—
( Laughter.) With respect to the remarks of the Honourable
Member for Montrose upon the army estimates, to the effect
that there was a decrease upon the effective, but a large in-
crease upon the non-effective force, the Hon. Member should
have recollected that he was at least an accessory before the
fact, because he was one of those who asserted as cordially as
any other Hon. Member to the remission of the charge upon
the poundage of Chelsea pensioners, amounting to a sum of
50,0001. He would not then take upon himself to enter into
the question of the general policy of the Government, but
would confine himself to the business immediately before the
Committee, if the Committee would bear with him for a few
minutes while he made the usual financial statement of the
military affairs of this country. He thought he should best
ecnsult the convenience of the Committee if he applied himself
to the estimates immediately before the House, and afterwards
allude generally to those topics of military interest of which
the Committee might be desirous oflearning something at his
hand. Upon reference to the estimates, it would appear that
the number of men to be voted in;the aggregate for the ensuing
year was 138,895, the gross charge for these would be
5,155,8481. The gross charge for the nen-effective force during
the present year was 2,175,2271., making a total gross charge of
7,331,0751. From that sum, however, there fell to be de-
duelled the sum paid for 30,497 men by the East India Com-
pany £972,211
Appropriations in aid of the effective force ... .. 52,375
Balance from the Royal Military College
Appropriation in aid of the Royal Military Asylum 6,145
Appropriations in aid of the non-effective force 7,137

Lord JOHN RUSSELL thought the measure of such
importance that he could not agree to its passing without the
greatest consideration. It should be gone through clause by
clause, and all its provisions duly weighed and considered.
Their so doing before sending it to the other House was the
most safe and practical course, and this would
take up some time. The Honourable Member
Lad also complained of the proposed poor-law, and
said that it would not be a measure to make Ireland rich. He
(Lord John Russell) did not say that it would do so, but it
would have the effect of inducing the ganged proprietors and
the farmers to employ the people instead of supporting them
in the workhouse, and thus lead to the improvement of the
country.—( Hear, hear.) With regard to the money now
spending, it would enable the people to earn something to
keep them alive. The most important question for the Go-
vernment now was, not whether the labour was productive or
not, but to enable the people to keep alive. Still he thought
that even the roads which had been made, and which were
said to be-utrproductive, would turn out most useful and advan-
tageous. He could further assure the Hon. Member that
the Waste Lands Bill would be shortly introduced, and that
that, with the New Poor-law, would be proceeded with
without delay. With respect to the Bill now under conside-
ration the Lord Chancellor had gone through the
clauses, and thought them highly important and practical;
still as the practice; if the Court of Chancery in Ireland differed
somewhat from the practice of the English Cou, t, it was con-
sidered the best course to delay the Bill a little, in order that
its provisions might be fully matured, and that it might, there-
fore, work satisfactorily.—( Hear, hear. )
Mr. HUME said no one could see the exertions which the
Government were making without being satisfied that they
were doing their best ; still he could not agree with the Noble
Lord that the money now expended was not unproductive.
He (Mr. Hume) did not see any evidence of its productive-
ness, while its application was taking the people away from the
cultivation of the land. No time should be lost in carrying
the Bill, to enable the landed proprietors to receive loans in
order to employ the people on the lands. There was no doubt
but that the land would pay for the capital expended on it. Only
the other day he learned that land in one of the most distressed
counties in Ireland, Kerry had sold for 27 years' purchase. He
thought that as so many of the estates in Ireland were in
Chancery, a Bill should be passed to enable the proprietors to
sell their estates, and apply the results to liberate themselves
from their present unfortunate position.
Lord G. BENTINCK said he could not agree with the
Noble Lord in the picture he had drawn of the benefits which
would arise from the roads that were making, as from a report
of a meeting held the other day in Ireland, at which Mr.
Bianconi, who had been referred to as a great tautly rity in that
House, had spoken. That gentleman had spoken at the
meeting, represented the roads to be in a most deplorable
condition, and of little use for the purposes contemplated. (The
Noble Lord read an extract from the report of the meeting to
this effect.)
Lord J. RUSSELL had not said that he was very sanguine
of the benefits which the roads would produce, but that he
considered they would benefit the country, and be the means
of employing the people so as to supply the means of sub-
sistence.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM entertained a strong opinion that
every farthing expended in Ireland, should be spent in a repro-
ductive manner. lie did not, however, rise to give this oei-
nion, but to express himself that he thought it unfair and
unjust to press the Government in this period of awful and
unexampled difficulty, or to blame them for delaying to bring
forward the measures which they thought necessary to meet
the crisis. But he would express .his opinion in reference to
permanent measures for Ireland, that none would be better
calculated to give relief than a Measure giving facilities to
tenants for life to relieve themselves of their incumbrances by
the sale of portions of their land.— ( Hear, hear.) Suet' a
measure was absolutely required, and he rejoiced to hear that
the Lord Chancellor of Ireland had directed his earnest
attention to the question, in order that some relief in
this respect might be given to holders of property.—( Hear.)
There was a clause to put this on equitable principles, but
what was the consequence ? Why, Lord Langdale, Lord
Campbell, the Lord Chancellor, and Lord Lyndhurst had all
allowed that the principles of the Bill were inapplicable to the
circumstances of the country. These principles had been
fully agreed to in that House, and yet these great law Lords
had all assented to the agreement that the hill was quite un-
tenable. On the one hand, there was the difficulty which
must be felt in the Legislature at passing Bills to which these
Lords could not give their consent, Yet he considered that
obtaining the consent of the other tHouse to the improvement
of the Poor Law was of the greatest possible moment, and he
trusted the necessary measures for that purpose would be taken.
Mr. L A BOCCHERE could not but regret the opinion that
the Right Hon. Baronet opposite had expressed as to the two
courses, one of which it was determined that Parliament should
pursue. He deeply regretted that the word of his Noble Friend
the first Lord of the Treasury had not been sufficiently at-
tended to. The Right Hon. Baronet seemed to think that his
Noble Friend conceived that it was immaterial what works
were entered upon, and whether they were useful or unprofit-
able works ; but if he had examined sufficiently into the state
of the facts, he would find that none of the works on which the
public money had been expended could he called unproductive
works. and that the expenditure which had been made had been
of much service in the improvement of property,of the country.
slindetrhaeticoonnsoifdtchraetimonatotectshbise-
fqoureestthioenm,,tahneyd
tmoussat
vgeothtoe tshaecrcifionce-
of human life, and to prevent the extent of human suffering,
and for that purpose they were anxious to promote this mea-
sure. But it had been made a charge against the Govern-
ment, that these people had net been employed upon reproduc-
tive works, and that if the money were to be expended, this
ought to be resorted to. But were not these people already
or indirectly, in the cultivation of the soil.
eHnegshgaedd:tdaicttreedolvyer and over again, that the object of the Go-
vernment in the planning of these works, was the employment
of the people with a view to the preservation of human life.
But, as the Right Hon. Baronet had observed, this could only
be attained by the expenditure of a large sum of money. The
great question was, as to how this plan would
succeed in the improvement of the country. What
would have been the circumstances had this grant
not been made. Why, the probability was that the suffering
would not have been relieved, and yet the money would have
been equally expended, and therefore it was that he was re-
joiced that they had given their assistance, and that the people
had been employed upon public, rather than upon re-productive
works. He would not trouble the House with further remarks,
but could not help expressing his regret that their measures
had not met with the approval of the Hon. Member for Dor -
setshire (Mr. S. Herbert), whose opinion was always of so
much weight in that House.
Sir D. NORREYS—The Noble Lard was desirous of de-
veloping the resources of Ireland. Let him do so in a manly
manner, and let no man take up a mine or any other public
work without the sanction of Government. Would it not be
better now, if the Noble Lord has any measure in
ita
sa us
waseist p
efteehtaeldti b teeei t
or
trehr
neoat B. obaaTrndhki
so forW principleao Wks, and see
whether
bansedry od
He would now give an instance of this Act. He had an offerpublmicighrtosbdee
from some gentlemen to erect a mill at an expense of from
14,0001. to 15,0001., but he could not accede to their offer
bocause he could not force the occupants of certain lands to give
him a right of way to the entrance to the mill. Then there was
another case which had come under his notice. There was a
limestone quarry which could not be brought into play, because
the original holders of the land refused to grant their assistance
to the conveyance of the stone from the quarry, and he was
quite satisfied that unless some measures were taken for expe-
diting the means for enabling public works to be carried on it
would be utterly futile to pass any measure for the improve-
ment of Ireland.
Mr. BAILEY believed that unless there were some mea-
sures for enabling the proprietors to get rid of their entailed
estates, any measures to which the Government might accede
would be of no use whatever.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL said that a great misunderstanding
prevailed on this subject. He had himself been largely en-
gaged in the appropriation of the means provided for the im-
provement of Ireland, especially in the most cultivated districts
in Ireland. He meant those about Dublin. The great object
was, to give employment to the people, and they had found that
the making of roads had been of the utmost possible advantage,
for they afforded to the most destitute immediate employment.
One fault only had, as it appeared to him, been committed,
and that was the endeavour to do the work which required
17,000,0001. with a grant of 10,000,000/.; a grant which was
totally inapplicable to the purpose. Sure he was that if the
Governmer.t acted consistently they would not find the gentle.
men of Ireland behindhand in rendering their assistance.
Mr. SHAW was unwilling to say a single word, but he
thought that the Bill of the Government might have been
sooner brought forward, and he regretted this the more as
there was an evident desire on both sides of the House that it
should be carried forward as speedily as possible.
Mr. P. SCROPE wan anxious to know the result of the
Drainage Act of last session, for it appeared to him that it
had not been sufficiently followed out. He had had communi-
cations from Ireland in which it was stated that the land in the
neighbourhood of the writers was quite under weer, and he
felt assured that if that Act had beers fully carried out, that no
difficulty would have been experienced respecting those public
worts.
After a few words from Mr. BAILEY,
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that he should be prepared
to answer the question on Monday next, and he could not
without preparation undertake to answer all the questions
respecting the measures which had passed this House. With
respect to the Drainage Bill, of which complaint had been made
by his Hon. Friend (Mr. P. Scrope), all he could say was that
every opportunity had beers taken to render the Act as avail-
able as possible, and as there was to be another discussion,
he might say with respect to the question of his Hon, Friend,
that he would then be able to learn what the intentions of
Government were.
The Earl of LINCOLN bad listened with much attention to
the observations of the Hon. Member of St. Germains, and
did feel that the intentions of the Act of last year had not- been
fully carried out, and that the sanction of the Government
had been fully justified. And the more so that from 120 to
130 per cent. of the funds bad been applied to the purposes of
this Act.
Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN regretted that no intimation had
been given by the Government of the plan which they intended
to adopt ; fur, if they had, he felt assured that not only would
the system itself have been most satisfactory to the country,
but that it would be more eminently instrumental in the pro.
motion of the public welfare.
The vote was then postponed until Monday next.
ARMY ESTINIATES.
On the motion that the House go into a Committee of
Supply on the army estimates,
Mr. HUME said that he exceedingly regretted that the
Government should have takers the course which they had
adopted in the arrangement of these estimates, for he saw n
beo
reason whatever for the increase of the sum
voted for these estimates. Since the year 1822 the
estimates for this purpose were upwards of 20,000,000/.
in excess of what they were, and for this he saw no reason
whatever. During the years 1835, 6, and 7he found that the
whole of the estimates for the purposes of war were upwards
of 43,000,0001., giving an average for the three years of more
than 14,473,0001., and since the year 1813 they had increased
to the extent of more than 3,000,000/. He did not see any
reason for this, for the difference was not great between the
present year and that of 1828, when the army had been re-
duced. For his own part he .lid not see that there was any
great necessity for a larger military establishment than that
which existed in 1792, and to that standing he thought the
army ought to be approximated if it were not reduced to that
extent. These were matters well deserving of inquiry, and he
trusted the Government would net allow the matter to pass
without sufficient investigation.
Sir DE LACY EVANS could, as he believed, make con-
siderable pretensions to the character of a liberal Member of
that House, but he would never be a party to embarrass the
Government by such a reduction of the army estimates as that
which had been suggested by the Hon. Member for Montrose
(Mr. Hume).—( Hear, hear.) The wants of this great
empire were not to be satisfied by a meagre force.
with regard to what had fallen from the Honourable Member
for Montrose upon the subject of economy, he could only say,
that at no hustings would he ever give a pledge to make any
silly or foolish reductions in the public expenditure, and thus
jeopardize the defences of the country.
Lord GEORGE BENTINCK said nothing could be more
rash and silly than reductions at the expense of the security of
the country. He had heard with great surprise from free tra-
ders opposite, that no sooner had they es. ablishea free trade,
than they were obliged to increase their military operations; be-
cause they were once told, that the effects of free trade would
be to produce peace, lay desolate fortifications, disband enemies,
and do away with the navy. Now he, as a protectionist, never
saw that any of these consequences would arise, nor did he

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENT NG, MARCH 2, 1847.

they might be found, might be always maintained throughout
every company in an effective state.
The vote of 108,398 men for the land service for the ensuing
year was then agreed to.
The vote of 3,728,737/. for the payment of the land forces
of Great Britain and Ireland and the dependencies, except
East India, for the ensuing year, was then agreed to.
Sir C. NAPIER said they had now proceeded with two
votes for the army, and agreed to them ; he hoped, according
to the promise of the Noble Lord, that the Government would
now proceed with the navy estimates. There were several
Hon. Members besides himself who had waited the whole of
the night in the hope that the Noble Lord would fulfil his pro-
mise, and he trusted that even yet he would do so.
Mr. FOX M AULE said that would be mere waste of time.
Sir C. NAPIER (lid not see that it would be any waste of
time. Several Hon. Gentlemen had been waiting for the ex-
press purpose in the House the whole night, and he himself had
been waiting anxiously, and he hoped they would proceed im-
mediately to the navy estimates. He had to go to Portsmouth,
so that it was impassible for him to be present if it were to be
postponed ; indeed, it was not fair to postpone it. He could not
accede to it. _ .

who had the interests of the army at heart would not object to
an occasional increase of this vote,. This year it was proposed
to give 1,0401. to officers as rewards for meritorious services
The next vote was the pay of general officers. In this vote it
was proposed to make an increase of 33,0001., but that vote
contained the expenses of the arrangements against which the
Hon. Member protested—the expenses of the brevet. Deduct-
ing, however, the extra quarter of last year, which was
16,0001., the real increase over the vote of last year was re-
duced to 17,000/. And a brevet going to the extent it did
with an increase over the ordinary estimate of only 17,0001.
was not a matter which could afford grounds for any dissatis-
faction. The next vote was for the retiring full-pay. This
vote was estimated at 13,000 a , while for that of last year it
was 15,0001., so that on this vote there was a reduction of
2,0001. He now came to the half-pay, and his Hon. Friend
said that this was a vote continually increasing.
Mr. WILLI ANlS—Only a part of it.
Mr. F. MAULE—His Hon. Friend said only a part of it.
Well, he held in his hand a paper which gave the state of th:s
vote from 1830, from which it appeared that it was going on
gradually decreasing from 720,000/. to 420,0001. There was
an actual decrease this year of 14,0001. He now came to the
foreign half pay. The vote last year was for 50,281/, but
for this year it was 49,136/., so that there was
a decrease of 1,145/, He now same to the widow's
pension. The vote last year was 138,8191., and for the pre-
sent it was proposed to he 131,854/., so that there would be a
decrease of 6,965/. He held in his hand a comparative state-
ment of this vote from 1830, and it was gradually reduced
from 143,000.1. to 131,854/. There was also to be a reduction
on the next vote. The vote for the compassionate allowances
was also to be reduced. Last year the vote was 102,0')01., and
for the present year it was proposed to be 98,0001. On
the vote for the pensions for Chelsea and Kil-
mainham, calculating the four quarters of last year,
there was a small increase in the estimate of last year
of 1,9731., which went to the establishment at Chelsea.
He now came to the out •pensioners, for whom the largest vote
in the service was required. This year showed an increase of
43,383!., the whole charge being 1,236,073/. Last year the
charge woo 1,191,315/. It was necessary to explain the cause
of this increase. He found that there were 961 more men on
this list than last year, whose pensions amounted to 14,051/.
The commuted pensions amounted to 1,500/., and others, of
smaller amount, to 1,744 L, which would have re-
duced this vote, but for the increase of numbers
to which he had referred. The House had relinquished
the charge formerly made on out pensioners, on the payment
of their allowances, which had led to an increase of 50,000/.; but
he thought this was simply an act of justice, to which he was
sure no one would for a moment object. Next there was a
charge of 60,000/., to which he wished to call particular
attention, for organising a body to proceed to New Zealand,
under the command of Capt. Tulloch. The object was two-
fold. They proposed sending, under the charge of 6 officers,
a body of 500 men, with their families, for the purpose of
being located there, under certain advantages to which he
would allude more fully at another period. He
would state, however, that they were to be located
in settlements, and to perform certain duties for a period of
seven years, at the expiration of which they were to be put
into possession of the land with the view of their becoming
valuable settlers in the colony. They would afford a de-
fence to the colony, and would be liable to be called out
for that purpose by the Governor, in short they would,
he was quite sure, at a moderate expense, be the means of doing
great service to the colony in a wholesome and proper way.—
(Hear, hear.) The general charge, of which this was an item,
was 291,000/., making an increase of 61,677/., for which
16,939/. had to be deducted, so that there would be an increase
in the vote of 45,0001. It had been stated that there
was an increase of 9,0001. in the superannuation allowances ;
but this was not the case, as the expense of this year would be
similar to the last. These were the details of the non -effective I
service, in which there was a gross increase of 254,890/. ; but
there was to be set against that 218,9711., which really reduced the
increase to only 35,911 ; but if that was taken from the de-
crease in the effective service 62,6171., it would show a de-
crease upon the revenue of the year of 46,860!., (as we under-
stood). He thought. the Committee would admit that the
War-office had paid attention to economy in framing the esti-
mates for the ensuing year. Before, however, he closed this
part of his statement, he wished to allude to one ob-
servation—to an observation which had fallen from the
Honourable Member for Montrose—a statement which
he believed he made somewhat accidentally—he said every
department seemed to think it their duty to make their
estimates as high as possible, but for his department he ( Mr.
F. Maule) might say, that its object was to make the estimates
as low as possible, and if he would consult those who were in
the service I f that department, and those who were seeking
to gain anything from it, he would find that his statement was
ethnetiraerimy, rr
heo wouldousa—
yne
another word further than this—
that its efficiency was such as it always had been, and such as
e Lat lea
sayr .) With regard to the efficiency of
he trusted it would always maintain. With respect to the un-
healthy state of the barracks in the West Indies, and in Jamaica
and other parts, he might state that black troops were in the
habit of doing duty in many of these places, instead of the white
troops ; and he might state that the mortality in these islan
cent.
ds.
veith the exception, perhaps, of Cuba, was 1 3-10ths per
From a return which he held in his hand, showing the healthy
in the Mediterranean,
u unhealthy islands, it appeared that
was 1-30th per
up to the 31st of March, 1846, the mortality . d
..
cent. ; and in the year 1836, 2-30ths ; in the United States,
Canada, and Bermuda, up to March, 1846, 1 3-10ths ; in
1836, 2 1-10th ;in New south Wales and the Cape of Good
Hope, in 1846, it was - ,l 4 10ths and nearly the same in 1836 ;
in St. Helena, the Mauritius, and Jamaica, in 1846, it was
I 9-10ths per cent. ;'and in 1836 it was 91 men in every 1,000.
But the improvement of the rations, and the improved con-
struction of the barracks had done much to improve the health
of the troops. In the unhealthy stations, in Ceylon, for in-
stance, he might state that the whole mortality was greater
than could be wished at the present moment, as it was
4 4-10ths per cent. ; but, in 1836 it was 7 5-10ths per cent.
In Hong-Kong it was also considerable, but he hoped, by the
aid of colonial troops instead of British troops, that less sacrifice
of life would take place. He had all the means of knowing the
mortality in India, but he had little means of con-
trolling it. He hoped, however, that it would be
considerably reduced by the introduction of improvements
No man was more impressed with the importance of those
improvements than the Noble Lord who held supreme com-
mand in India, and be hoped when his mind was less occupied
with the condition of India, that he would realise the intention
he had often expressed of introducing improvements in the
Making a total to be deducted from the gross barracks, and that before he retraced his homeward steps, he
charge of
Leaving a eLarge on the present year of 6,275,074/, and the India, whilst not required in the field, in barracks
number of men to be voted 108,393, making a small decrease erected in healthy situations, in the highlands, and
upon the number which was taken last year, of 210 men. particularly in the mountains above Madras, for
There were some charges of course in the different arrange- those in that part of India. With respect to the
ments of this number, and he thought it right to state some moral training going on in the army, he proposed taking a vote
of those charges to the Committee. There has been a decrease of 2,000/. for establishing schools in connexion with the Mili-
in the regiments coming from foreign service. Five regiments tary Asylum. They proposed establishing a school for
le the
which will arrive from foreign service, had, during the time training of schoolmasters —a model school—on the
princip of
they were abroad, borne a strength of one thousand men, the regimental schools, and an infant school for the orphan
those regiments would be reduced upon their arrival children of British soldiers. This grant was proposed by his
at home, each of them, to eight hundred men, Noble Friend who had preceded him in his office, and in future
That reduction, together with a reduction of some nen- com- years the army would look on him with gratitude. He be-
missioned officers, would cause a total reduction of 1,075 men. lieved it would lead Rot only to the education of children,
There was also another small reduction, amounting to 37 men, but be the means of imparting education to the
which would make a total reduction of 1,111 men. With the adult soldier, which, perhaps, might be the means
exception of 210 men, those diferences were supplied in the of enabling him to do something for his support in old age,
following manner, and as it involved a Principle, he would make whether pensioned or not pensioned. The army libraries had,
a statement upon that subject to the Committee, in as short a be was happy to state, been increased by 10,000 volumes during
time ss possible. It is proposed to raise a body of 682 men, the year, and he proposed taking a vote of 2,000/. for a similar
including officers, for the service of the garrison at Hong- With dto the disciplinein the army, he had
purpose.regar
Kong, and itso, that
was also proposed to add this body to the Ceylon only to state, and he experienced satisfaction in doing
corps, and in adopting this mode of providing for the service since January last up to the close of the year, only five
of Hong Kong, the Government would be acting and he
plc which had formerl been - cases of corporal punishment had occurred ; a s .
principle much discussed in that House a expected to see in a short space of time, the practice ot in-
upon which ho had very considerable opinions,' inflicting'punishment • h (Cheers.)
that was the mode of and such a dying away altoget er.—
coloni applying, wherever it was possible, the The army prisons were working well—as well as could pos-
al corps, for the purpose of takingin Great
charge of the colonial sibly be wished. There were nine of these prisons in
possessions.—( Hear, hear.) This mode one in
in point of administration,
infinite!
e was more economical Britain and 'related, of which four were in Ireland
and y more economical 'in a Scotland, bta there were cells in all the barracks, and from the
still more essential point of view, he alluded to he
Lion of the health and lives of soldiers —(Hear,thie, preserve- returns he had received, which were most satisfactory,
oldiers was
ear)--and found that their effect upon the morals of the 5
therefore it was that the Government had come the conta-
to the resolu- most imortant, as the soldiers were separated from
tion that, instead of keeping British troops at Hong Kong, mination of the civil gaols. The improvement in this respect yeas
where he was sorry to say that they had fallen h army;
a prey one of the most important ever introduced into the British _
to diseases incident to that climate, it would be better, •months, under
and whereas it took days and .veeks, and sometimes
they had accordingly proposed that the garrison of Hong the old system, regiment.
to make a man available to his
Kong should be occupied by a corresponding number of men There is no one instance of any soldier being in the least de-
drawn from the Ceylon corps. Another increase,and
this, gree injured by the punishment ; and however violent they
although the first, he was afraid would not be the last increase, were, going in, they in all instances came out better ; whereas,
in the Cape corps. The Governor had already added two under the old system, the soldier going into the civil gaol never
companies to that corps, amounting to 174 men. But Sir H. came out better. The labour in the prison was severe,d cone-
Pottinger and Major-General Berkley, who had recently gone plaints were made against it, but he was not disposed to
out there, had been instructed to add four more companies to attend to them, as long as it did ro injury to the men. The
that corps, and he would say that it was in contemplation fur- labour was Se severe, and such was the vigilance exercised, that
ther to consider the means of providing for the de• no soldier was known voluntarily to go into prison, for the pa
went in thatr-
fences of the extended territory of that colony, by means of , pose of shirking duty, and there was no man who
colonial corps, so as to relieve this country of a did not come out, most heartily intending to don is tab best no
which
considerable portion of the expense. There was go in again. Those were the especial pnt
also another small addition of 45 men, making a total addition he would at present allude. There were other matters
tdo wh i
of 901 men, which taken from the 1,111 men left an actual de- the attention of the Government would be turned by
egrekess.
Ch
crease for the ensuing year of 210 men. The Hon. Member more particularly to the comfort of the soldiery in the barracf .
for Coventry (Mr. Williams) proposed to effect a reduction of The proposal which he should have the pleasure of making or
20,000 men; for his part he would say that if the Government the purpose of limiting the service of the soldiery, au
prove
could spare 20.000 men, without reference to the defences of to the army at large the anxious care of the Governmehnet over
the country, but simply with respect to the general operation of their interests, and he did trust that, following up what saw
the relief of the burdens upon the country, he should be happy to be the feeling of the House—namely, that the army was a
had been too
to do so. His belief was that if the Government wished to service the interests of which in some respects
relieve their regiments in anything like a proper man- long overlooked—they would attend to their
hcomfhorts
ner—( Hear, hear)—the most effectual manner of pre- with a greater minuteness, for let the House believe im wen
venting their doing so would be to diminish the force he, assured it, that the more they took ea, eof the soldiery in
in the., mode prescribed by the Honourable Member the time of ,peace the more disposed they would be teo serve
for Coventry. He believed that there was at the present them faithfully in the time of war. —(llear, hear.) He did
it
period no regiment which had not been in India for a period of trust that consistently with the maxims
whichthat the was
upwards of 1.4 a years, and he believed that there was now no the duty of the Government to inculcate,
y
regiment at home which had remained in this country for more would be able to promote the happiness and welfare of
than four years, and he hoped that in the course of time (for the soldiers, and that they would induce the people
it would require time to effect it) that the Government would of the country—not the outcasts and rerfaubsie, of:Tc,iseitoyn—iit,owelijta
be able to bring down the largest term of absence of any the service, to esteem iht
ears Ito
i childr°en"to ernhilrrk,e.in which at-
regiment from this country to a period not exceeding they might eneouraget
paid to their Moral training, and from which
thirteen years. He would then pass on to the next vote— tension will be
a back improved and worthy members
the charge for the land forces for the ensuing year. they would receive nem
Upon the land force charge there was a decrease to the public of society.—( Loud chseaers.)
Hone
that the statement whieh had been
of 44,151!., owing to appropriations in aid. Had it not been Mr. WILLIAM S_
Hon Gentleman was the clearest and most
for these appropriations there would not have been any made by the Right
h he ever had the pleasure of hearing since he
reduction on this charge. The next vote to which he came ableexposition whit:
of having a seat in that House. He did
was the staff. On that vote there was an increase of 8,343/, had the honour
proposed a reduction of twenty thousand men,
which was occasioned by the force they were obliged to send to intend to have
with his friends, he had received very little
the Ce of Good Hope, and I think the Committee will be of but, on consultingan _
seeing
no possible chanee of success he
opinion that the worst way to endeavour to settle the little encouragement, d
the harmony of the debate.
wars was to do so in a little way. The effect of the contrary did not intend to interrupt
d he himself, had His
great confidence that
mode of proceeding was. apparent at the Cape, for the friends around him, an
move-
ment that had • taken Government would be in office next year wh
, en
place had completely paralysed the the present ain voted d, an that then a very
Caffres, and had laid the foundation of the hope of these estimates would be ag
submission. No corps could acquit themselves more allantlgreat reduction would be made.._ __ _ ,
than that which was commanded by Colonel Somerset.g y g General Sir DE LACY LNANb said he experienced
On that vote, therefore, there would be aai increa ashehad very great satisfaction indeed from the statement made by the
stated, of 8,343/. The fourth vote on the estimsles was in Right Hon. Gentleman. He hoped that the Government
the Public Department, and the increase on that was 2,0931., would torn their attention to the establishment of discipline
which was caused by the increase of postage, and was cause companies, which had been done in almost all other services.
by the increase of, work in the department. The next vote He would also point the attention of the Government to the
was for the Royal Military Asylum. The estimate for this accommodation afforded to the soldiers in barracks, which was
year was 17,633" and for last year 14,0821., there being exceedingly deficient, there not being more than one foot be.
an increase of 3,571/, for a vote to which he would tween each of the hods in most of them.—( Hear. )
allude more particularly by and bye—one for the fur- Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT said he was very well pleased
theranee of a new system of education in that establish- at the statement made by the Right Hon. Gentleman his sue-
ment, but he would at present pass on to the other votes. cessor in office. He hoped that the Government would en-
The next vote was for the volunteer corps, which it was Pro- deavour to introduce vaore extensively the system of rewards
posed to increase this year to 3,9291. In the estimates last and examination.
year a vote of 36,5001. was taken for the unprovided services, Mr. ET WA LL said he was disappointed to find the small
hut it was not proposed this year to take any vote for them, amount of eight or nine thousandspounds voted for the purpose
but to leave them to be paid for at they might arise. Taking, of education in the army. He would express his hope
then, the sum of these respective increases, 17,9361. from this that a far larger sum would be set apart next
36,5001., the vete for the unprovided services of last year, a year for that purpose. lie was sorry also to perceive that
balance of 18,5641. would be left, which,
if added to the de- there was only required a sum of 2,000/. to pay interest upon
crease on the land force, would make altogether a decrease in moneys lodged in the regimental savings' banks. He for one,
the effective services of 62,705/. Ho now came to the non- as a Member of the British Legislature, would ever seek to
effective services. The Honourable Member for Non- advance the interests of the army intellectually.
trose said that there was a large increase on these Mr. GOULBURN said, after the observations which had
services. He said there was a steady increase on every vote. fallen from the Hon. Gentleman in regard to the reduction
Now he (Mr. F. Mauls) did not think the Hen. Gentleman of the colonial corps, he felt he must decidedly enter
studied these estimates with the care he usually bestowedi uponh his protest against any
.such phroposition. He would grant
them, because a comparison of this year's estiriiatevsewtetheft
lastose that in particular colonies,
aw ere the expenses fell heavy
of last year, was not a fair one, inasmuch as the on the . British subject,.
_reduction might be effected
while the vote of
this without injury ; but against the proposition of a general
year comprehended merely three quarters, _
re-
year extended over four. He (Mr. F. Maul ) e should, there- duetion of the colonial corps, he would certainly. enter his pro-
fore, would state it test • for that might be done in a tiof
take the account in its various details, and
to the House. The first vote was for the reward of distin- small saving of expense, but, in a time of war, difficulties would
guished services. On this vote there was an increase of 3,740/. arise in collecting sufficient force to meet the necessities of such
The estimated charge of last year (four quarters) had been 1 a time which would more than balance any trifling saving they
calculated would have amounted to 16,0791., while for this i could effect. But another point which he wished to impress
e ear the vote was 15,7401., so that, in point of fact, there 1 upon the House was, that every portion of the troops, wherever
was an actual decrease this year of 339', though there was an 1 they might be located, in Australia, Canada, or anywhere else.
apparent increase. This, however, was not a vote on which should be looked upon and treated as an integral portion
the Hon. Member would like to see a steady decrease. Those of the imperial army. lie said this, that the forces, wherever

Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he had hoped that the army
estimates would have come on at an earlier period of the even-
ing, but he was afraid that at that late hour nothing could be
done if they should turn now to the navy estimates.
Sir C. NAPIER said he would not agree to this. He
would not accede. A promise had been made that the navy
estimates would have been taken that night ; unless that were
done, he must beg that Mr. Greene would report progress.
Mr. WILLIAMS objected to the House going that night
into the navy estimates He could not agree to it, and thought
it would be but wasting time.
_ .

Sir C. NAPIER said it was not a waste of time at all.
Why, he supposed that eight or ten votes might be got through.
He had much to say upon them, and business would not allow
him to be present if they were postponed to another nigbt.
Mr. FOX MAULE—The Gallant Admiral is bent on
delaying the public business.
Mr. WILLIAMS objected to their going into Committee
on the navy estimates.
Sir C. NAPIER said he had reason for acting thus. He
had the promise of the Noble Lord that the navy estimates
would come on that night, and he could not be present on Fri-
day night.
LordJ. RUSSELL said he might meet both parties. He
promised that the ordnance estimates should come on en Friday
night after the army estimates, instead of the navy.
Sir C. NAPIER agreed.
The following votes were then agreed to:—
The vote of 177,778/. for the expenses of the general staff
officers for the ensuing year.
The vote of 96,532/. for the Public Military Department
for the ensuing year.
The vote of 17,633/. fcr the Royal Military Asylum for the
ensuing year.
The following votes were also agreed to :-
86,304/. to defray the expenses of the volunteer corps.
15,740/. to defray the expense of rewards for distinguished
services.

82,0001. to defray the charge of the general officers in her
Majesty's service.
59,000!. to defray the charge of the retired officers of the
land forces.
420,000/. to defray the charge of the half-pay of the
military officers of the land forces.
49,136/. to defray the charge of the half-pay of foreign officers
who have been engaged in the British service.
131,859/. to defray the charge of the widows and orphans of
those who had been engaged in land forces.
95,000/. to defray the charge of the royal bounty.
36,623'. to defray the charge of the Chelsea and Kilmainham
Hospitals.
1,236,732/ to defray the charge of the out-pensioners
of Chelsea Hospital.
On the vote of 35,000?. being proposed for the charge of the
public departments of the land forces of Great Britain and
Ireland,

Sir DE LACY EVANS complained of the way in which
the Government had acted in respect to the granting of medals,
and hoped the matter would be attended to, in order to remove
the impression which existed in the army on the subject.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL, in some observations which were
very nearly inaudible, was understood to say that the Govern-
ment had it under their consideration to issue medals to all
those alive who had been engaged in any engagements on be-
half of this country.
Sir R. PEEL wished to know whether or not the Govern-
ment had come to any decision with respect io a public monu-
ment to the memory of Sir Robert Sale, General Nott, and
the other eminent officers who had distinguished themselves in
India ? . . . .

Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that he understood that it was
the intention of her Majesty's late Government to erect some
testimonial to the memory of all the officers who had fallen in
India, and the present Government intended to carry out the
proposal.
Sir R. PEEL thought, instead of having a separate statue
on each, it would be best to have some public record of the two
battles, which should commemorate the actions, and at the
same time to have a separate medallion for the specific services
performed at each battle.
Sir C. NAPIER said that as medals were to be given to
. .

the officers who had fought in India, he wished to know why
the same honour had not been granted to the officers who had
behaved themselves so well in Syria? The taking of St.
Jean D'Aere was considered at the time a very wonderful
aehie7ement. He saw nothing wonderful in it, but still he
thought if medals were given to officers in India, the same
ought to he given to the officers engaged in Syria. He did not
care for these things himself, but still the officers and men
naturally asked what was the reason that, when others were
rewarded, they were forgotten?
Lord J. RUSSELL reminded the Hon. and Gallant Mem-
ber that no decorations had been granted for the battle of
Algiers and of Navarino.
Sir C. NAPIEIt said that the persons engaged in these
battles ought to have been rewarded. Algiers was one of the
strongest towns in the world, and it had been taken by four or
five sail of the line, and probably there was no other man
besides Lord Exmouth who would have undertaken the task.

With respect to the battle of Navarino, that was a very differ.
ent thing ; but even there the officer in command had taken
an inferior fleet into a narrow harbour, and defeated a force
superior to his own. It was no excuse, therefore, to refer to
these instances.
The vote was then agreed to.
A vete of 60,0001. for the half•pay pension to the army
serving in India, was, after a few words from Mr. WlLLiwais
and Sir Da LACY Evaws, agreed to.
The House then resumed, and the Chairman reported
progress.
CONSOLIDATED FUND (8,000,000/.) LOAN BILL.
This Bill was read a second time.
DRAINAGE BILL (AMENDMENTS).
Lord J. RUSSELL postponed the notice which stood fcr to-
morrow (this day), respecting the constitution of the Ecclesi-
astical Commission Bill, till to-morrow week.
Sir G. GREY brought in the Drainage Act Amendment
Bill, which was read a first time.
LIMITED ENLISTMENT BILL.
Mr. FOX MAULE moved the first reading of a Bill for li-
miting the period of enlistment in the army. He did not pro-
pose to enter into details ; he would simply state that the period
in the infantry would be limited to ten years, and in the ca-
valry to twelve years.
Mr. HENLEY hoped that a week, instead of twenty-four
hours, would be given to the person enlisting to consider.
The House then adjourned at Twelve o'clock.

PARLIAMEN TARY BUSINESS.

From the Votes and Proceedings of the louse of Commons.)

MONDAY, 111ARCII 1.

The following Railway Bills were presented, read a first
Line, and ordered to be read a second time :

FRIDAY. MARCH 5.

RAILWAYS.

Select Committee on Group No. 12.
Sir J an Guest discharged; Colonel Paget Beate I, and
added t co-the Committee.

The ( 3ommittee of Selection have discharged the Select
Committees to whom the Groups Nos. 5 and 6 have been
several ly referred, and have postponed the meeting of the
Select committees on those Groups to the week commencing
notida. r, March 15.

SMI iLL MEASURES FOR IRELAND
TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN.
See, —At a moment of almost unparalleled difficulty,
when ti se lives and properties of millions of the people
of
this grt eat empire hang, with a painful importance upon
the me. 'sures of the Government, and upon the fiat of
the Le gisiature—when the heart must be permitted
to bring her dictates to the wisdom of the bead—may so
humble. an individual as I um be permitted, through
your k ind courtesy, to offer a few remarks upon the all-
impose ant subject of legislating for Ireland, to bring iny
feeble taper to the blaze of light which is now, through
the columns ,of an unrivalled press, thrown over her '
wante, and her misfortunes; and to crave your indulgence
while I take a short notice of the ungenerous tone which
has, on this subject, been adopted by what I may call
the great history of " the Times." Feeling, Sir, with
other Irishmen, very grateful for much that this influen-
tial jo,arnal and its talented commissioner have done, from
time to. time, to rouse our It ish landlords to a sense of
the duties and responsibilities of their position, and
assured that it is often impelled to do or say what may
wound. by a stern sense of public duty, still I can find in
these sentiments little to palliate, nothing to justify, the
recentmost unfair, violent, and sweeping attacks, iu that
paper, upon Irish landlords, but am very reluctantly
obliged to join in the almost universal feeling of painful
indignation with which these statements have been re-
ceived. No one is more aware of the high, and often
onerous, duties which the press has to perform in wield-
ing for the public good the enormous power
which its own talent, and public confidence, may
place in its hands—no one more anxious to hear
humble testimony to the wisdom, moderation,
and justice, in which it, has generally upheld this sacred
trust, no one more ready to admit that where strong feel-
ings are aroused, it is difficult to stay the pen of an
honest and enthusiastic writer ; still I would ask, in all
courtesy, if, while the dark clouds of a mysterious and
deep affliction, still hang over this ill-fated country,
while the hand of the Almighty has let loose upon it
the withering scourge of famine and of pestilence, while
we know not where His mercy may place a limit to our
sufferings, if, it is only, Sir, at such a season the Times
can strike with such cruel and unrelenting blows the
already overtaxed, overtoiled, and overabused Irish
gentry, why is it that in this instance, as in that of
the Court-martial, in the seventh Hussars, last Septem-
ber, we find the bulky influence of this journal
thrown so readily and so recklessly into the scale of
public prejudice and misconception—defeating only the
poor ambition of the writer? Colonel Whyte and Lord
St. Laurence, the Adjutant of that distinguish( d regi•
ment, in the strict and proper performance of a most
painful duty, carried with them ii a great degree the
sympathy of a right-minded and intelligent public, when
the Times assailed them and made that feeling universal.
My present object, however, in addressing you, Sir, is
not so much to offer a feeble vindication of my gallant
brother officers of the British army, or to Irish landlords,
as to express my grateful admiration of the manner in
which my talented countrymen have met their ungenerous
assailants; they have replied to empty words by energetic
action, they have met irritation and anger with
forbearance and manly temper, they have borne down
prejudice and opposition, by an eloquent and earnest
vindication of their character and of their rights ; they
have appealed in enlightened argument, in a high spirit
of confidence and courtesy, to a noble public, end they
have been met with universal sympathy and respect.
Their time, their money, and their health, are freely
sacrificed to relieve their starving fellow-countrymen.
and God will bless them for it. Most truly have they
proved themselves worthy to cope with the great and
afflicting exigencies of tbeir unhappy country—they
have fairly won the admiration of a world, and can well
afford to pass by such statements as some of those in the
Times and House of Commons, in the consoling convic-
tion that such must ever carry with them their own best
refutation, their own most complete condemnation.
Having thua performed a pleasing duty towards the great
Irish party—a noble confederacy in a noble cause—you
will, Sir, I am sure, permit me once more to assure you
of the regret I feel in being obliged thus strongly to ex-
press my disapproval of the unmeasured length to which
this paper has carried its condemnation of Irish land
lords, a vast number of whom are not to be surpassed in
the civilised world for every feelin e which can adorn
their position or benefit mankind—enlightened, gene-
rous, and humane, the condition of their properties best
attest their worth ; while I must now join in deep dis-
approbation of another class of Irish proprietors, from
whose " penny wise," short-sighted views, reckless or
rapacious conduct, spring up, in my opinion, the chief
sources of Irish discontent, poverty, and outrage. A
man comes to one of these gentlemen with
4004 in his pocket, to take a farm of a hundred
acres. The really needy, or habitually im-
provident landlord, asks him what fine he is
prepared to pay him, as there are many who wish for the
farm, and he cannot afford to let it without one. The man
offers one, or even two hundred, but the previous infor-
mation of an agent or bailiff gets from him finally the
third hundred pounds, and he goes into the farm a san-
guine but a ruined man. Glad to get a respectable wife
and family settled, the poor hard-working fellow struggles
on for years, perhaps in want, privation, and in waning
hope, to inevitable beggary, when the exasperated land-
lord enters the house with an execution in his hand, cud
drives out upon a cold world an intelligent, respectable,
and industrious, but heart-broken man, involuntarily to
swell the number of those homeless and forlorn beings
who goad and sting our unhappy country into madness,
misery, and crime, while the wretched landlord loses ie
the non-payment of his rent, and deterioration
of his land, four times the sum for which
he blindly sacrificed perhaps an entire family ;
all the high rewards of his position, and all the best
feelings of his heart. In this, Sir, and in small holdings,
below the yearly value of 10/., lies the master evil which
afflicts this country, and until this class of Irish pro-
prietors recognise their duty and their interest to be
identical with the great principle of " Live and let live,"
we can hope for little to amend, little to amcloriate.
How great is the contrast, how different the results on
the properties of such landlords as Lord Farnham, Lord
Erne, Lord Besborough, Mr. Sharman Crawford, Lord
Devon, Lord George Hill, Lord Abercorn, Mr. Fortes-
cue, Sir A. Brook, Col. Bruen, and, thank God, an
hundred others. Here you will see the reciprocal
duties of landlord and tenant wisely and warmly
recognised. Here you aill see men protected, contented,
and happy, whose sole ambition is in all things to evince
their gratitude to their landlord, and to hand down to
their children a fair farm and a fair fame. When such
feelings spring from the heart, you may feel assured that
the moral and social condition of that people is sound.
Which is best—l would ask of Irish landlords—the
shot of the midnight assassin, the howl of the
starving incendiary around them, or the long loud
shouts of joy which welcome back to his home the
friend, the benefactor, and the guide? Surely, it must
be such sounds as these v,hich make the happy man
happier, the good man better ; it must be such sounds
as these which open wide the fountains of the heat t,
and sends the glad current of life bounding in joy and
triumph over the cares and crosses of a fickle world. I
agree very much with Mr. Hamilton, that it is a series
more of " little measures " which we require than of
great and sweeping changes ; but as few have pointed
any such out, or seem willing to do so, I am sure I will
be allowed to offer one or two suggestions which may at
all events lead to a better and more practical considera-
tion of this important subject. In the first place, I cer-
tainly think an " absentee tax " would be only a fair
instalment of the compensation due to this country for
the money yearly drawn and spent out of it ; and, al-
though I also concur with Sir G. Wood, that some of
the absentee landlords are among the very best, and
might naturally enough strongly object to be thus taxed
to swell the public Exchequer, cause the funds so raised
to be spent on their own several estates, in giving pre-
miums for green crops, cattle, and cottages, draining,
farm servants, and fencing, and I %ill answer for it you
will annihilate their opposition ; for this reason—that
although these enlightened landlords do at
this moment spend, and have for years done so,
large sums in the advancement of agriculture and
improvement of their estates, they will have simply to
withhold such portion of that sum as may be equivalent
to the new tax. They are thus no sufferers in their in-
come, and all their best objects are equally attended to,
while the like benefits are compulsorily conferred on the
poor tenants of the thoughtless, the reckless, and the
improvident, and to give them still a direct and pleasing
interest in the benefit accruing to their estates, they
could point out six names of their most respectable
farmers to the nearest deputy-lieutenant of the county,
who should nominate three of these as judges for the
year, for the distribution of such prizes as the tax on the
property may yield. In the next place, Sir, I propose
I that money be at once, and for many years to come,
perhaps, advanced in loan from the Consolidated Fund,
for the purpose of giving a stimulus to manufactures in
Ireland—" the steam-engine, the loom, the print work,
the mill, the manufactory—these elements of wealth,
this issue for an over agricultural population," as the
talented Member for Dublin, Mr. Gregory, justly terms
them ; these are, indeed, what we really require, and
although warmly and gratefully recognising the generous
and manly sympathy of Lord George Bentinck, and
with ardent best wishes for his success, I did fear
that there were some points in his measure,
in the moment and manner of bringing it before the
country, which would cause it to be objected to by b
present chief Minister of the Crown, situated as
Lord
John Russell is, and I still think every enactment of the
kind he proposed must be imperfect, unless aided and
illustrated by the important auxiliary one of encourage-
ment to manufactures, which must always afford the
most certain security for the discharge of interest and
the repayment of capital if something like the following
very simple plan could be adopted :—When an indivi-
dual, or a company, lay out, in raising mills or
factories, say B,OOOL, and when this outlay is duly certi •
fied, by accounts furnished to, and attested by, a board
composed of the three nearest magistrates, the execu-
tive, on receiving the same from them, accompanied by
a policy of in: in a lice on the property so far completed,
may surely think themselves safe and well secured in
advancing an equal sum to that already expended. In
doing so a generous and enlightened Minister justly
claims for himself everlasting honour in thus becoming
the happy medium through the high influence of which
is infused into an impoverished country some small share of
surplus English capital, in return for the hundreds of thou-
sands annually drawn from poor Ireland, and squandered
in rich and happy England ; and for the repayment
of which I can imagine no better security than what it
here proposed. I would earnestly recommend, also, tha,
money be advanced on the same principle, as nearly as
can be, to encourage the construction of a capable and

17

state, and somewhat less irksome,_ to themselves. It is
a fallacy to assert that the greater portion of spirits ma-
nufactured in this country is consumed by the lower
orders ; it is not so, and its consumption, therefore, is
not attended with a demoralizing effect. Consequently
there will be no materially increased demand, and no
ill effect to be apprehended in doing away with the re-
venue police, if the duty on whiskey is wisely reduced.
I would at the same time reduce the duty on West India
rum, in such a degree, as while it did not interfere
with the Irish distiller, would at the same time operate
to prevent any attempt at an exaggerated profit, and a
consequent revival or extension of an illegal competition.
Should, however, old prejudice still hang around the
minds of some, or a real apprehension that as " the
pledge " wears away with time, and Providence sheds a
greater abundance on the land, illicit distillation may
once m9re gain ground. I would say, reduce still more
your duty; I would still implore you to abolish the
principle of inculcating sobriety by the bayonet, or of
upholding morality by hunting the people like wild
beasts upon the mountains. Depend upon it such a
course is unwise, as it is degrading to the country—as
uncalled for as it is detestable. Let me beg of some
Honourable Member in his place in Parliament, to move
for returns of all stills, whiskey and malt, taken or de-
stroyed by the revenue police within the last five years;
also, for returns of the sums expended in the maintenance
of the establishment; and I would then ask
the Government and the country if the amount
of the one is at all an equivalent for the ex-
penditure of the other, furnishing as it does one of
those many channels which divert the Irish revenue
from the Imperial Treasury, and resulting only in those
cruel taunts against our country, that in our union with
England we are her degradation and her bane. Do
away, I beseech yon, with such a force, and spend the
money it costs this country in a well-digested system of
agricultural, religious, and moral training of the rising
generation, and you will reap a rich reward in the sti-
mulated industry, happiness, and wealth of a grateful
and a regenerated people. If I have, in thus trespassing
upon your valuable space, overcome a painful reluctance
and owe to you, Sir, and the public, some apology, I feel
assured my only motive will be permitted to plead one
for me, better than any words I can offer.
I am, Sir, your very faithful and obedient servant,
JAMES HENRY TODD.
Buncrana Castle, County Don( gal}
22d Feb. 1847.

Great Indian Peninsula—" for incorporating a Company, to
be called ' The Great Indian Peninsula Railway Company,'
and for giving powers to the East Indian Company and the
Governor-General of India in Council, to enable the said
Railway Company to make a Railway from Bombay to Allah,
with Extensions to Mhuse and the Pera River, and Branches
or Extensions to Sholapoor, Hyderabad, Kandeish, Indore,
and Hos hu ngab ad."

ST. JAMES'S THEATRE.
FRENCH PLAYS.
A new consedia vaudeville, entitled Le Mari qui se
derange, was produced here last night. It is either a
revival of an old French vaudeville, or a new play written to
an old plot, for we remember that some twee ty years since
a comedy (confessedly an adaptation from the French)
by Poole, was produced at the Haymarket, in which
Farren acted the part of Mr. Dotrington, the plot of
which was precisely similar. That plot may be told in
a very
• few words. Maurice Durosel (M. Lafont), the
Mari qui se derange, is married to a delightful woman,
but still he has his bachelor propensities, and he deter-
mines to go with his friend Berthollin (Cartigny) to a
masquerade, and make a " night of it,"_ leaving his
wife at home. The wives of this precious pair
also determine to go to this entertainment, and each
husband unwittingly makes love to his own wife. After
a certain series of regular misadventures, the plot is dis-
covered by Maurice, who has engaged in a flirtation
with a fair masque, retusing to carry the affair any far-
ther, ou the plea that he has " a wife whom he adores."
She unmasks, and he discovers that he has been making
love to his own wife. The admirable acting of Lafont,
as Maurice, made this trifle go off very agreeably. He
w•as excellently supported by Mdlle. Vall4e, as the wife,
and by Cartigny, as Berthollin. The vaudeville was
preceded by Le Demon de la Nuit. The house was well
and fashionably attended.

Colchester, Stour Valley, Sudbury, and Halstead (Lease to
the Ipswich and Bury St. Edmund's Railway Company)—
•' to enable the Colchester, Stour Valley, Sudbury, and Hal-
stead Railway Company to grant a Lease of their undertaking
to the Ipswich and Bury St. Edmund's Railway Company."
Leeds, Dewsbury, and Manchester (Ossett Branch and
Dewsbury and Morley Stations)—" for enabling the Leeds,
Dewsbury, and Manchester Railway Company to make a
Branch Railway to Ossett, and to provide additional Station
Accommodation in the Town of Dewsbury, and at or near
Morley, all in the West Riding of the county of York."
Oxtord, Worcester, and Wolverhampton (No. 2—Exten-
sions and Amendment)—" to enable the Oxford, Worcester,
and Wolverhampton Railway Company to snake a Railway
from Stourbridge to join their Railway near Dudley, and to
Halesowen, with certain Branches therefrom, and for other
purposes." _ _

Mold (from Mold to join the Chester and Holyhead Rail-
way)—." for making a Railway from Mold, in the county 01
Flint, to join the Chester and Holyhead Railway, in the
parish of Hawarden, in the same county, with Branches, to
be called, ' The Mold Railway.'"
Birmingham and Oxford Junction, and Birmingham, Wol-
verhampton, and Dudley Railways Amalgamation—" for
uniting the Birmingham and Oxford Junction Railway Com-
pany, and the Birmingham, Wolverhampton, and Dudley
Railway Company into one Company, and for authorising
the sate of the Birmingham' Wolverhampton, and Dudley
Railway, and other new works to the Great Western Railway
Company.
The following Railway Bills were read a second time, com-
mitted, and referred to the Committee of Selection :
Eastern Union and Hadleigh Junction (Sale to the Eastern
Union Railway Company).
Ipswich and Bury St. Edmund's (Extension to East Dereham
and to Aylsham).
Ipswich and Bury St. Edmund's (Branch from Ipswich to
Woodbridge).
Herne Bay and Canterbury Junction.
Royston and Hitchin (Extension from Royston to Cam-
bridge, &c.)
Royston and Hitchin (Sale or Lease).
Caledonian ( Branches from the Clydesdale Junction to the
Douglas and Lesmahagow Mineral Fields, and to Strath-
avon ).
Caledonian (Extension of Motherwell Branch of Clydesdale
Junction Railway to Auchinheatk Mineral Field, with
Branches to the Wisbaw and Coltness Railway, Cander-
side, and Hamilton).
Caledonian (Purchase or Lease of Wishaw and Coltness
Railway ).
Caledonian and Dumbartonshire Junction (Deviations be-
tween Duntocher Limeworks and Bowling, &c.)
Strathtay and Breadalbane Extension.
Wilsontown, Morningside, and Coltness (Branches to Benhar
Coalworks and Edinburgh and Glasgow Turnpike Road).
Newry and Enniskillen.'
Colchester, Stour Valley, Sudbury, and Halstead (Extension
from Lavenham to Bury St. Edmund's).
Colchester, Stour Valley, Sudbury, and Halstead (Extension
to Melford, Lavenham. and Clare).
Colchester, Stour Valley, Sudbury, and Halstead (Stour
Navigation Purchase).
(Deviations and Bideford and
Taw Vale Railway and Dock
South Molton Branches).
Aylsbam and North Walaham.
East Lothian Central.
Duffryn Llynvi, and Porth Cawl and Llynvi Valley Rail-
ways Amalgamation.
Guildford Extension, and Portsmouth and Fareham.
London and South-Western.

COURT CIRCULAR.
The Queen and Prince Albert honoured the performance
of the French Plays with` their presence yesterday evening.
The royal suite consisted of the Marchioness of Douro, the
lion. Miss Paget, the Earl of Listowel, Colonel the Hon.
Charles Grey, and Colonel Bouverie. Her Royal Highness
the Duchess of Kent, attended by Lady Fanny Howard and
Sir George Couper, also honoured the French Plays with her
presence last evening.
His Royal Highness Prince Albert rode out on horseback
yesterday, attended by his Equerry in Waiting, Colonel
Bouverie.
Their Royal Highnesses the Prince of Wales anddy the
Princess Alice took their usual walks and rides yesteran
the royal gardens.
Viscount Clifden has succeeded Lord George Lennox as the
Lord in Waiting to his Royal Highness Prince Albert ; and
Colonel Bouverie has relieved Captain the Hon. Alexander
H. Gordon in the duties of Equerry, in Waiting to his Royal
Highness.
Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Cambridge and his
Serene Highness Prince Frederick of Hesse arrived at Ca-
shiobuq-park, Herte, the residence of her Majesty the Queen
Dowager, yesterday, morning, haying travelled from town
by the London and Icorth Western Railway. Lady Augusta
Cadogan and Mr. Edmond Mitch-nay were in waiting on her
Royal Highness.
The Duchess of Cambridge and Prince Frederick of Hesse
partook of a dejeune with the Queen Dowager. In the after-
noon the Royal Duchess' and his Serene Highness took their
departure on their return to town.
Lord John Russell and the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
accompanied by the Lords of the Treasury and the Secre-
taries of the Treasury, received yesterday morning the gen-
tlemen from the city of London, on the subject, of the new
loan of eight millions. Mr. J. B. Heath, the Governor of the
Bank of England, and the Deputy-Governor, attended the
meeting.
Lord Macdonald and Mr. H. J. Bailie, had an inter-
view with Sir George Grey yesterday at the M.P.home-office.
A deputation from the South Lancashire coal proprietors,
consisting of the Hon. Colonel Lindsay, M.P., Mr. Fletcher,
Mr. Dartington, and Mr. Watkins (solicitor), had an inter-
view with the Right Hon. Edward Street yesterday, at the
office of the Commissioners of Railways, in Great George-
street.
Mr. Colquhoun, Diplomatic Agent for the Hansa Towns,
had an interview with the Right Hon. T. Milner Gibson
yesterday, at the Office of the Board of Trade.
A deputation of the Directors of the Waterford and Kil-
kenny Railway Company, consisting of Mr. P. S. Butler,
M.P., Mr. George Anderson, Mr. George Emery, Mr. Charles
Hulse, and Mr. M. J. Currie, had an interview with Lord
, Jelin Russell, yesterday, at his official residence in Downing-
street.
His Excellency Prince Callimaki, Ottoman Minister, was
among the company who visited her Majesty's 'Theatre on
Thursday last.

NOTICES GIVEN AT THE PRIVATE BILL-OFFICE.
The following Railway Bills are appointed to be read a
second tirae:—

Taw Vale Railway and Dock.
London and North-Western (Lime-street, Liverpool, Station
Extension, ea-)
London and North-Western (Portobello and Wolverhampton
Branch, &c.)
Cambridge, St. Neot's, and Bedford Junction.
Ipswich and Bury St. Edmund's (Branch from Stowmarket
to Sudbury).
Edinburgh and Northern (St. Andrew's and Newburgh
Harbour, Branches, and Road Crossings, Newport Railway
Extension).
Blandford and Bruton.

strong description of vessel, and thus make dee
fishing as hat it is not, and ought to be, a great Fl\AV:.:;jl. 1:4
of national profit and employment. The next Ao
consider most essential is, to infuse a more hsiei
tone it to the rural population of the country, by ate saeA,:',l?7D-:."2....
lating industry and self-reliance, by the gradual abblir ' '--
tion of small holdings, and by a better and more cm" ‘2, j SittiC7l
pact allotment of tillage land to farmers, all nearly of
which may be accomplished through a wise system of
encouragement to emigration, and which might be thus
carried into effect:—Let a man, desirous to go to our
North American Colonies, obtain a certificate from his
landlord, clergyman, and nearest local magistrate, stating
his desire to emigrate, with a wife and so many chil-
dren, and that he has only part, or no part, of the
money requisite for that purpose, the Government agent
at the nearest port of embarkation should, on such a
voucher being handed to him, be empowered to provide
them wi h a passage, enclosing it again with a state-
ment of the expense incurred, to the secretary of the
grand jury, to be by that body assessed on the county at
large, or, as I should much prefer, to the chairman of
the electorial division to which the emigrant belongs, to
be recovered by an additional rate, because
it is better for the rate-payer thus to get
rid of a whole family of paupers by at
once paying a certain sum, than for them
for ever to be a burthen on the union, while the
evil of small holdings is pointed out in a most intelligible
manner—titrough their pockets—to the rate-payers and
public, doing more to undermine and make unpopular
than all the speeches, writings and enact-
the system,
ments of the last half-century ; the landlord, of course,
in the first instance, having bound himself in his ccrtifi-
;ate that the holding will not again be let to a separate
tenant, but will be added to the farm of the nearest and
most improving tenant. The late Chancellor of the Ex•
chequer does not think that any Government ought to be •
intrusted with power to di aw for an indefinite amount on
the Consolidated Fund, but that the Minister should
come to th House of Commons from time to time for the
sum, however large, he may require. There is a cold
propriety in this which will gain some little popularity
tit the day book and ledger portion of a community ; but
in it we can all perceive a holding back, a paralysing of
the hand of succour to be held out to Ireland, and a
clogging of the machinery for her relief. No Minister
will come down to the House of Commons, day after
day, or year after year, with demands upon his liberality,
knowing the long and vexatious debates, and, perhaps,
divisions, to which he will be subject, and with which
money Bills are indeed so sure to be assailed
in that House, and especially in certain quarters
of it. The time I may hope is past when
Ireland can be legislated for in such a spirit,
which seemingly confers what it in reality withholds;
better tar to fix at once a large and liberal sum as the
maximum to which the Minister may proceed, when all
that the most pinching economist can require is a full
statement, from time to time, to be laid before the House
of the monies expended to benefit the country ; I would
reiterate the necessity of a revision of the Grand Jury
Laws, especially as regards the great power of assess-
ment, and of those relating to salmon fisheries, as I can-
not help thinking that almost all recent enactments in
regard thereto have much tended to oppress and embar-
rass the proprietors, while no one (Ise is in any intelli-
gible degree benefited, unless, indeed, such people as
would grasp and poach a property they well know they
have nu other right to than what is conferred by an
unfair and unwise law. If some early enactments do not
throw these people further from the entrance of salmon
streams, this description of property will, in a few years
more, be little worth legislating tor. Lastly, Sir, I
would draw the attention of Irish M mbers to a force
which this country has to support—the revenue police—
the existence of which I cannot help thinking an indig-
nity to Ireland, which, happily, she does not at this
moment afford a satisfactory pretext for having in-
dicted on her. Reduce the duty 2s. a gallon on
whiskey, and then to assert, as some gravely will,
that such a force is more required here than
in England or Scotland, is in my mind exceeding
a formal imbecility? Thanks to Father Mathew, and
the great aid given to that good man by the clergy and
gentry of all creeds and classes, it is indeed not so ; but
it affords large patronage, and will consequently find
many friends and arguments to uphold it ; but I shall
still hope that the day is not far distant when justice
and sound policy will assail the existence of a most ex-
pensive and unnecessary force ; far be it from me to say
one word which can pain or disparage a body of men
which in zeal, efficiency, and good conduct are hardly
to be surpassed by any in the service of her Majesty.
I should simply rejoice to see them absorbed by the
Irish constabulary or the army, where I am certain
their services would be of some greater value to the

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