The Sun.
London, England, 1841-06-08 00:00:00

-EVENING EDITION

rftmernment, and of the success of the British army '
it did strike him that he should have been
y:stified in stating what abatements were to be made
To those tritimphs.(Cheers.) But as he recollected
he Noble Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs would
nvt have an opportunity of replying to him, he ab-
; tained from saying a single word. Now with respect
to the Budget, he certainly did state that it was the
prevailing impression throughout the country that the
Budget had been adopted at too recent a period. That
was the observation he had made ; and there was an
impression that had circumstances been more favour-
able to the Government these questions would not
have been pressed upon the consideration of the House.
The Noble Lord, however, assured him that he was
wrong, and that her Majesty's Government, viewing the
state of the finances of the country, had determined, at
an early period, on. bringing forward their measures ;
and having received that statement he (Sir R. Peel)
was bound to place, as he did place, in it the most im-
plicit confidence. But, at the same time, the charge he
had made really remained untouched ; because his
charge was this, that if the Government had contem-

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plated those important measures, which partook less of a
financial character than of a relaxation of commercial
policy, then it would have been much better to have
called the attention of the House to the subject at an
early period of the Session, and to have referred to it in
the Speech from the Throne.—(Hear, hear.) That was
the observation he had made. The measures in
question were introduced in consequence of the Report of
the Import Duties Committee—he meant the measures
relating to the duties on sugar, corn, and timber ; at
least he thought the main arguments in favour of the
measures were to be found in the evidence of that Com-
mittee. He had stated on Friday that no member of her
Majesty's Government had attended that Committee dur-
ing its sittings ; but that, in his opinion, if they had
thou ht that in the evidence taken before the Committee
might be found the principal arguments in favour of
these great measures it would have been better, in that
case, either to re-appoint the Committee at an early
period of the present session, or, if the Government were
convinced that the evidence already taken was sufficiently
conclusive, and that it was not necessary to re-appoint
the Committee, and that they had determined to pro-
ceed without further evidence, then, considering that
the measures were less measures of finance than
important relaxations in our commercial policy, he
argued that it was not advisable to delay the
introduction of such measures until the produc-
tion of the Budget. That ..was the cause of the im-
pression which he had stated he had entertained, but
which, after the declaration of the Noble Lord, he en-
tirely renounced. Now, on the subject of the Corn-laws,
he should say it appeared to him that the Government
had but one of two courses to pursue—either to deter-
mine to bring on the Corn-laws immediately, or to ab-
stain altogether from bringing on the question. Either
of these courses, he thought, were perfectly open to the
Noble Lord, and he did not presume to give an opinion
as to what was the best course for her Majesty's Govern-
ment in their present position. But he thought it was
hardly fair of the Noble Lord; after he had announced
his determination of not going on with the Corn-law
discussion, to give them the main heads of the arguments
--(Hear)—which he would have made use of if the
question had been brought forward.—(Cheers.) The
Nob!e Lord had told them what were the four principal
arguments on which he had intended to lay a stress ;
and he (Sir R. Peel) submitted to the House that he
could not then state his opinions as to those arguments,
and attempt to impress upon the House his reasons for
entertaining different opinions, without at once provoking
yery inconvenient discussion upon the subject.—(Hear,
hear.) The Noble LOrd had given them the heads of
the chapters which would have constituted his speech
rather than the chapters themselves.—(Hear, hear.) But
if he (Sir R. Peel) entered upon the subject at all, it etas
clear he should be provoked into a discussion, into which,
!iceeeding to the Noble Lord, it was not his intention to
proceed. He was the more disposed to leave the Noble
Lord in the full possession of the advantage, and forego any
opportunity of entering into the discussion, because he con-
fessed the Noble Lord's summary ofhis arguments had not
mads that impression. upn his (Sir Robert Peel's) mind
which would lead him to think any discussion necessary.
—(Hear and laughter.) Of course the Noble Lord had
advanced his four principal arguments ; and they might,
he thought, safely conclude that the remainder would not
be so cogent as those he had adduced—(Hear, hear)—
end he (Sir R. Peel) was perfectly willing, seeing the
i:nmense evils of being now provoked into a discussion on
the subject of the Corn-laws, for which the House was
not prepared, and seeing that the decision of the House
would not be taken, lie was perfectly willing to leave the
Nohie Lord in possession of the advantage which he (Sir
T. Peel) thought he bad not quite fairly taken—(Cheers)
—in stating the main arguments on which he intended
to have relied in case the discussion of the Corn-laws
had been brought forward by her Majesty's Government.
Time only ether point to which he wished to advert was
the proposal of the Noble Lord with respect to the votes
of supply. He inferred, from the statement of the Noble
Ler:l, that it was the intention of the Government to appeal
to the sense of the people, and to call together a newPar-
lianlent He (Sir R. Peel) expressed no opinion what-
• upon the propriety of that course ; he left the res-
poitebility of it entirely to the Noble Lord. The
I;.ihle Lord had, on Friday, stated his plans as follows :
"We propose to take a vote of supply on Monday, and
.Ite only such of the miscellaneous -estimates the
eisity for which is so immediate that any delay would
0, great inconvenience to the public service if not
gritted at the present moment."—(Hear, hear.) These
were the terms of the Noble Lord's notice. While he,
Sir (11. Peel) avoided all implied approbation of the
course which he Majesty's Government were about to
ta'ae, namely, that of appealing to the country on the
sailect of the Corn-laws, while he left entirely with her
Majesty's Government the responsibility of such a men-
• he must say at the same time that he was not pre-
isarsd to offer the slightest obstruction in the way of her
• tiesty's Government taking that corusc.—(Hear, hear.)
Ie conceived there was a very material distinction be-
tween takinie upon himself any part of the responsibility
and ehstainlng altogether from any act by which the
ti overnment might be obstructed or any delay upon the
subject might occur.—(Hear, hear.) His opinion was
clearly this, that he should leave that respon: ibility ex-
elmevely to the adviserS of the Crown, if they determined
hi assume it, and to exercise the unquestionable preroga-
tive of dissolving Parliament; but that it was the duty of
the Government to assume that responsibility and to ex-
ercise that prerogative with the least possible delay.—
(Hear, hear.) He said that doctrine applied to all times
and circumstances, because the discussion of any im
Fortant measure by a Parliament, Which knew from sig-
nificant indications, that its days were registered,
and that its fate was determined, would be evidently most
ihraT.ious to the public interests. He said, also, without
wishing to introduce one word of aggravation or aspe-
rity, that the peculiar po-sition.in which the Executive
Government was plaeed after the vote of Friday night,-
addtei, it appeared to him, a further reason for the en-
forcement of those views, and imposed an additional
obligation—if an additional obligation 'could be imposed
appe-alint, at once to the sense of the country.—
(ilver.) He "did not think there could be a doubt upon
flee.; subject ; and, ns. he said before, inferring from the
eieurse of the discussion, and 'from the language held by
ii ;abinet -Minister during that discussion, that her Ma-
;este"; Government had made up their minds, even if the
tieve,ion of the House upon the resolution which he
ssssea should be adverse, not to consider themselves
bound to resign, but to take the sense of the people upon
Os measures which they had proposed—when the
'Noble Lord had made the statement upon Friday night
'that he would only take such estimates as were required
for the public service, his (Sir R. Peel's) impression was
that such estimates ought to be granted •at once ; but he
should say the Chancellor of the Exchequer was pursu-
g a course very different from that which had been thus
implied. The Chancellor of the Exchequer proposed to
leete the whole of the remaining estimates—the Civil Con-
-tine•encies—the Commissariat—the Miscellaneous Esti-
ll-seas for England and Ireland for a period of six
raaiiths. That appeared to him (Sir R. Peel) unfair
la en the part of the Right Hon. Gentleman.
Lord J. RUSSELL---It is only for a period of six
months, commencing from the Ist of April.
;air R. PEEL continued—He would proceed to state
what were:hiS opinion sas to the course which the Govern-
riant and the House ought now, in his opinion, to adopt.
As be said before, his opinion was—and it was an opinion
.in which the House appeared to concur—that it was the
duty of the Government to dissolve the present Parlia-
elent as soon as ever it could be done without inconve-
nience to the public service. He knew that the Sugar
Bill should pass, and nothing could be farther from his
intention than to oppose such a, vote. But he not only
thought that the act of dissolution should take place as
soon as was consistent with the public service ; but he
must also say, that, according to all usage, under circum-
stances at all analagous, a new Parliament ought to be
convoked as soon as possible—(Hear, hear)—not only
with reference to the important questions on which the
public mind was now divided—not only with refe-
rence to the interests of the country, or at least
of all persons engaged in commercial speculation, or
enterprise of any kind, whose advantage it would
he to know what was to be the state of the law affecting
the importation of corn, not only with reference to these
'''ilt'iderations but also with reference to the position of
the Executive Government which manifestly stands before
the People as not possessing the confidence of the
House of Commons.—(Hear, hear.) The combined
force of these considerations compel led him to say that
the interval ouht to be as short aspossible, and that
her N ajesty'sGovernment, after having resorted to the
act of dissolution, and taken the sense of the people,
eught to summon. the new Parliament 'without delay.—
(Hear, hear.) He thought that no considerations con-
eected with the private or personal convenience of
alembe. rs ought in the slightest degree to interfere upon
euch a subject. lie looked upon that as a
great consta-
:aional question in which personal considerations
mould be discarded. According; to all analogy—
according to all former precedents when a Par-
liament was dissolved—the succeeding Parliament
ought to be immediately convened.—(Hear, hear.)
The Nob 4 Lord opposite would recollect that in the
year 1784, after Mr. Pitt dissolved the Parliament, as_
short a time as possible was suffered to elapse before
another was called together. In 1807, and again in
1831, when Earl Grey dissolved Parliament on account
of some obstructions with regard to the Reform Bill, a
similar course was pursued. These were three cases
analagous to the present ; and he therefore felt that the
House had a fair right to expect from her Majesty's
Government that a new Parliament should be assembled
at as early a period es possible. If the Noble thought
It consistent with hie duty to make a declaration that
th ',Alves the advice which would be given by her Ma-
Crown, he (Sir R Peel) should
ssacts eolaration would satisfy him.—
..K..1
ould consider a declaration so
'177 „ • „ House of Commons, possessing
tvhioh ' lie could
sk\
Majesty,
hajte_ety, as a declaration on
-3ipen any pro„ • ,r9PheltY rely as he could
the House might adopt for tl.:! plumose of cant
gvoYernment. He said at

to ta'

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once, therefore, tbat if the Noble Lord was prepared to
state that her Majesty's Government proposed to pursue
the precedents to which he had adverted, and that they
resolved at as early a period as could be consistent with
the necessity for the public service to dissolve the pre-
sent Parliament and call a new one, whatever might be
the apparent departure on the part of the Chancellor of
the Exchequer from the course notified by the Noble
Lord, he should not have one word further to say, as
the declaration of the Noble Lord would be amply suffi-
cient. The Noble Lord would find that there could be
no constitutional objection to his making such a declara-
tion, because the Noble Lord might call to his recollec-
lection, that in the year 1807, on the dissolution of the
then existing Parliament, it was distinctly notified by the
Crown to the Parliament about to be dissolved, that another
would immediately be assembled. His Majesty upon
that occasion make use of these expressions :—" His
Majesty trust that the early attention of the new Parlia-
ment, which he will forthwith direct to be convened,
will be applied to the prosecution of those imporpant ob-
jects." In the year 1820, on the demise of the King, a
similar course was pursued. His Majesty then informed
the Houses of Parliament that " he had determined to
call, without delay, a new Parliament,;" and in the year
1831, when Earl Grey resided over the Councils of his
late Majesty, the following announcement was made in
the speech from the Throne :—" I have observed with
satisfaction your endeavours to introduce a strict eco-
nomy into every branch of the public service, and I
trust that the early attention of the new Parliament,
which I shall forthwith direct to be called, will be ap-
plied to that important object." He trusted, therefore,
that he had proved that in the occasions of 1784, 1807,
1820, and 1831, in the dissolutiona of the Parliaments
then sitting, the succeeding Parliaments were at once
convened ; and he had also shown that in the three last
cases the Crown did not object formally to notify to the
Parliaments then sitting that the Parliaments which
were to succeed them would be assembled without delay.
He hoped, consequently, that in conformity with these
precedents the Noble Lord would- be enabled to
give them that assurance to which they were en-
titled. He knew of nothing additional which he
was called upon to say. With respect to the
peculiar position in which the Executive Government
was now placed, he would only add that he thought it
would occur to the mind of every one, that that position,
constituted an additional reason for their pursuing the
course to which he had referred. Suppose the Noble
Lord were not prepared to give such an assurance then,
he (Sir R. Peel) would give the Noble Lord whatever
estimates he might require for the immediate term of his
service, but he could not be a party to any vote which
would imply an opinion, upon his part, that the Parlia-
ment might be dissolved, and the Parliament to succeed
it might not be immediately convened. It was quite
clear, he apprehended, that if the Noble Lord took the
vote for the remaining estimates for a period of six
months, it would enable him to postpone the calling of
Parliament together till November,. or even later. Now,
he must say he thought that would be unconstitutional.
He repeated, therefore, that if the Noble Lord would
give an assurance, in his place as a Minister, that it was
his intention to pursue the course followed on former oc-
casions, on that declaration. he would place entire confi-
dence, and would not quarrel with the grant of the esti-
mates for the time proposed. If the Noble Lord
was unable or unwilling to do that, then he submitted
that three months would be amply sufficient for the
exigencies of the public service.—(Hear.) But so de-
termined was he not to take advantage of his present
position for the purpose of inflicting on any branch' of
the public service inconvenience, that if the Chancellor
of the Exchequer said there were certain votes which
for instance had been anticipated or were absolutely
necessary for a longer period, he should not oppose
them.—(Hear, hear.) He trusted the Noble Lord would
relieve him from any further hostile discussion on the
subject. He did not require any guarantee from
him, or declaration as to the course which he should
in his capacity of a Minister of the Crown advise her
Majesty to pursue.—(Hear, hear,)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL would observe that he could
give no express guarantee as to the course he meant to
pursue, nor did he suppose the Right Hon. Gentleman
expected him to do so. He thought there was no reason
why they should deviate from the ordinary course on
the present occasion, and under the peculiar circum-
stances in which he was placed, feeling also that he
knew the mind of his Noble Friend at the head of
the Government, he had no hesitation in stating that
the advice they should give to the Crown would be
that no time should be lost for the dissolution of the
present Parliament, and in summoning another.—(Hear.)
That statement he wits the more ready to make, because
in the position which he held as Minister of the Crown,
holding the seals of office, he felt all the objection to
acting in that office after the vote of the other night
until he had received the sanction of a new Parliament.—
(Hear, hear.)
Sir ROBERT PEEL said the answer the Noble Lord
had given was the answer he himself had anticipated ;
therefore, in fulfilment of the assurance he had given,
and in which he placed implicit confidence, he had no
objection to the supplies being granted for six months.—
(Hear, hear.)
The great bulk of the Members present here left the
House, and for some time it was in a state of much ex-
citement and confusion.

Mr. VILLIERS, who for some time essayed to
address the House, said he did not complain of the man-
ner in which it now treated independent Members who
rose to address them. He was aware that everything in-
teresting to the House had been carried and arranged
His Noble Friend the Secretary for the Colonies, and
the Right Hon. Baronet, had stated what they called
their views, and indicated the course they meant to pur-
sue, and therefore the business of the House might
be considered over. He hoped, however, it was not too
presumptuous in him to make one or two observations
on the position of that question which had led to the
present position of parties, and which was now about to
disturb the peace of the country. It had been a con-
stant theme of reproach to himself and others, that they
had taken a course with regard to the Corn-laws which
was calculated to do injury to the question by advocating
too large a measure of reform—that they had been too
extravagant in their claims—and that if they were more
moderate in.their demands, they should claim more at-
tention, and perhaps succeed better. But let the House
look at the present position of the question. It had been
taken out of his hands by the Government, and they had
proposed a measure which was evidently one of compro-
mise, and extravagantly in favour of the other side of
the House. Formerly they had been allowed to discuss
the question, but if he understood the present arrange-
ment, it was, that they were not to discuss the question
in that House. The other side, who had the power in
their hands,long might make speeches, and occupy the
time of the House but if the Government brought for-
ward any specific plan, then discussion was to be
entirely precluded. He hardly knew any part of
the world in which the question did not excite in-
tense interest ; but it appeared to him that
so far as they were concerned, there was some analogy
between the slave question in America and the Corn-
laws with them. In Congress they did not allow the
question of slavery to be discussed, and two years ago,
when it was brought forward, the whole House rushed
out. The country was about to become the scene of a
great battle between those who advocated monopoly of
all kinds, and those who were anxious to promote the in-
terests of the people. The present was their first step,
and then they said, " you may dissolve the House, but
we shall have a majority in the next, and we shall not al-
low you to discuss it in the new Parliament." The
question was how the struggle was to end. He was not
discouraged, and he would encourage the country not to
be disheartened. He knew of no cause in the name and
for the object of promoting freedom that had been so
successful in the first instance.—(Hear, hear.) -He was
glad of the course the House had taken, for it was bold
and straightforward. He believed it would do more
good to the country than any other, because it would
show the people their weakness, and would point out to
them where their strength lay. They would now see
the necessity of putting forward their energies ; and he
was glad int that event to find that the House was to be
dissolved, and the sense of the country taken on the
subject. It was clear that no other subject could engage
the attention of Parliament till it was settled in one way
or another, and he believed the public business would be
obstructed, and that there would be a series of dissolu-
tions until the struggle was at an end, and the people had
obtained complete justice.—(Cheers.) He did not think
there was anything erroneous in the views of those who
had agitated the question. He would be ready whenever
a discussion was allowed in that House, to state the
grounds on which he claimed for the people a total aboli-
tion of those laws.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. WAKLEY said it had been objected that so im-
portant a question should be brought forward on the eve
of a general election ; but he would remind the House
imme-
diately after the tbthheeesiurdbicojsecsnotsleiuddteitorona
at,
that the new Parliament was to be called together
il ol andnt
he forthwith.t
excitement,he would
public
ciownsoEtatresshkaetulttlrhheeciee
taiVotnatitoon,gianvde
aptletdhgees,
hustings.w h i which
he u must
whoe ccomplaina
that the Right Hon. Baronet and his friends
depre-
cated the repeal of the Septennial Act, and frequent Par-
liaments, should wish to have the present, andprobablythe next, Parliament dissolved within a very short period.
It appeared to him that the great interests of the
country
were to be regarded as nothing, when the interests
of
party were concerned. It was only three weeks ago
that his Hon. Colleague had brought forward a motion
o
for the liberation of political offenders, and the Right Hon.
Baronet had then deprecated any interference with the
prerogative of the Crown, and had advised that the motion
should be left to the discretion of a Government which
lie now said did not possess the confidence of that House
or the country. Now, there appeared to him something
extremely inconsistent in such a proceeding.—(near,
hear.) He hoped the Noble Lord would not have what
he anticipated—namely, a majority in the new Parlia-
ment. Indeed, he sincerely hoped that neither of the
great parties in that House would obtain a majority.—
(Laughter)—but that the people would exercise a little
common sense, and that their influence, would be
extended at the coming elections to increase the
number of that party which, he regretted to
say, was at present very small—to which he
had attached himself—he meant the party which
was influenced by a sincere desire to promote the
welfare of the people.—("Hear, hear," and laughter.)
He knew nothing as to the issue of the coming strug-
gle, but it was clear that at present the interests of the
people were utterly neglected in that House. On the
present occasion the public money was to be voted to
an enormous extent ; and as soon as the leaders had
settled their plans out went Hon. Members to dinner,
and they spent the remainder of the evening discussing
the state of parties with their friends.—(A laugh.)
When the people saw that their own sufferings were I
disregarded, when the evils of the present system were
fully disclosed to their view, it was impossible that they
could continue. No rational people would suffer them
to have a long &ration. He would remind the Right
Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, of the lan-
guage he adopted when he met that House after it bad