The Sun.
London, England, 1847-06-04 00:00:00

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in which such charges were fully proved ; in fact, they
"lid not speak to a single shirsvner upon the sub-
. Vet without being twritirrtied in the general belief
that the presenr board W,,s who!ly in, fficient. If
they were going to make a change in the
bi.dy tiny should include shipowners and merchants.
Such a class was not to be found in the corpora'
don, at.d such a class -had an interest in the navi-
gation of the river, which the corporation bad nor*
Thin was a question which seriously affected he
ck toe
üblic.);
considering the enormoui amount of traffic i
plice even above bridge. Thu re were not powers su
cii nt in the Bill to remove the abuses which existed, an
therefore this interference would do more harm th°l3

fine d.
0 *he tos'
time inaudible in the gallery in consequence ta
Alderman COPELAND then rose, but was for 500
was as
tone in which he spoke. He thought that it ._is
provement upon the previous Bill, and he would vote
suppert of it. a dr
Mr. COWPER said that the present Bill was „ e
cided improvement upon the former, because it gave
cheek upon the eerie ration. isken ale
Mr. S. WORTLEY said that this Bill had ,tbe
pArto s interested by surprise, and he should supPIT.O.
recommittal, in order to give time for its consideraonovo.•
The House then divided, and on our re-00W
found the numbers were-
For the amendment ..................... 65
71
Against it ...
Majority for the amendment...... f the
Monday next was fixed for the recommittal °
Bill. „,„„rds,
After a few words from Mr. LAW and Mr. ,75A not
Lord LINCOLN objected to the Bill, asiic,„ it, the
give private parties, who might be affecteu
notice which they should have. gen"
The Bill was then ordered to be recommitted °
day next. goose would
Minto HUME wished to know when thefloat
goCommittee of Supply, and whether
_tllmet %odd
which he had demanded in relation to Foi.tur.
be in the hands of Hon. Members on that dsidis
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCllE,9.„„itetee
that if possible the House would go into referred
Supply on Monday evening, and that the PaPethetmid
to would be in the hands of Hon. Membeil
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCeee'v"l"4,witasa
that when the papers were laid on the tabli if the,'
would move for a committee immediately, au, for a
were laid on the table on Monday he would Oa
committee that evening. I. Alf Pees
Sir R. PEEL said that as it would be bet
sible for all the Members of the CoMluitn Wit
of them being engaged on Committees, to r.e:rod ea
papers on Monday, it those papers were deb/ old b°
Saturday night it would obviate this difficult9:oorof.
thought the best course would be to wait till t° oces be
Mr. HUME said that under these circurnsgi
would wait till to-morrow.
The motion was accordingly withdrawn•
till, the°
Tile CHANCELLOR of the EXCEIECIA;„e• of th
gave notice that he would move the third res"—
Loan Discount Bill to morrow.
JUVENILE OFFENDERS Bilki:ioging
Mr. ESCOTT gave notice that upon the "-offetiae,•''
of the report of the Punishment ofqnfeaueolso
Bill that he would move for the omission of ase
authorising the punishment of flogging.
of PRlSONS'thedayfoßr goinglLL into ,o_
uartiittes
On the order
on this Bill being read, sae
e 000
Mr. EWART presented a petition from t_tae„, age
Maitland and Newcastle, in New South Wzile'
the renewal of the system of transportation• goose tl°
Sir G. GREY then rose to move that theooose ite°
resolve itself into a Committee of the whole ."";,,b itnaf,n
this Bill. The present Bill, with the one alli,re
diately followed it (the Custody of Offen 'of Pri,se,,;
formed together a comprehensive seheine 'Pc
reform proposed by the present Governs,
_sadaes
present Bill proposed to unite under one 037/oete;
the government of the Parkhurst, Milbanh'.gfeedia leto
ville prisons. Pentonville was by an Act P`i-o- ees
placed under a board of unpaid coneiniss" °to be lees
were appointed by the Crown, and were not tie a. -
than seven, or more than eleven in number, emrisolo
members of this Committee being inspector s e`_r_d sat
Parkhurst was a prison for juvenile offenders,caloi
placed under the general direction of' the SP reprefeet
State in 1838. Now it was proposed by the,imilse t°
Bill to place all these prisons under one Act, :eensgeti
that under which Pentonville was at present %joy
As experience, however, had shown the inaPass.' t()
the various details of management being
unpaid commissioners, many of whom bed eee spa°
[maims to attend to, it was proposed that tha, by sa
be one paid commissioner. -It "Vas also proposerfy;aset
alteration made in the Bill, since it left the other for die
that the hulks and other places of confinement should
reception of criminals sentenced to transported that tbe
be placed under the commissioner, and wale
' • caul see
duties of the sup.-rintendent of convict
oto
who had lately resigned his offices h /000
future be discharged by the new board.
•k
13111"-r•ili
atterer
ecor
The second Bill-the Custody of Offenders 0.;
posed to place Irish convicts on the same Waft
the
respect to transportation, as the Act with respec._l:os
transportation of convicts belonging to this cottur•7oer
passed before the Act of Union. The first claus4iets
posed to place them on the same footing as the coolll the
Of this country; and the second, the removal fr,° theft
county prisons the criminals at present confined iii
aids
Some apprehension had been excit(d un this subjec.4o
respect to the expense, but he believed that the O'er
in,-nt he sh,ull propose befor, he sat down, and thed
phiustion which he should give to the House, ''ll.ll,
effectually destroy the objections to this part of the ore
He now proposed to deal with the general and the of
important question-namely, the question of secoolt
punishment. In approaching this part of the subjeellice
did so with a perfect idea of his inadequacy to de i:eecl
to it. Of the importance of the schject he be 01
every one whom he addressed was fully persuado'cor
the difficulties attending it, none save those 10111
versant with the subject, could be aware ; andoptea
conversant with the course which had been .oo+
with respect to those offenders during the last fewh2l, for
fie believed that his Hon. Friend, the Nler; free/
Montrose, considered that the question was 're-better
difficulty. He considered that prevention was s din
than cure," air! that a sound, moral. and religleilito
cation would do much to promote this end, an" 0,0,
move the nices7ity of so much prison disciplinkee9 opal
proposed. He quite agreed with him as to the
taitce of edam ion-its importance had been is the
mitted by the vote which the House .bad come so?
course of the session-that it was the duty oftausvoi
ta k
11 W
e*,kssal
to
s
to promote the education of the people in O, Orisons
its power. Still, whatever steps they
would still be necessary, and since they were ;0, 00
they must consider the best way to deal with t The ljeli
the best mode of diecipline- they could adopt- weal)
neral -attention which had been directed to the su 'OOOl
evinced what he considered a most setisfaetorycieterre..
that by example and punishinent offenders; areal ally
from the:commission of crime, because the Peutesteol
of the law p tsseseed so much terror that Pro
tie and property was thereby greatly prozn°,,t that „.
object of theßill
was nne of such importsaowout $5 ie
Goveroment ought to shrink from carrying lt., Was
as possible.
y_theearlaswint::rhtehewatati
In proposing any new scheme ~,,a
possible to avoid meeting with many ciifficullieS. A feo
punishment being
pethims to any innovation upon the old 000%010 tie
without using ,ur,, afraid
reformationth at utliot little
owes; dersirgeeptee
cult to determine auer
inflicted in proportion to `e deter
the o the
personal libe
beyond theany means besides what would aschw
culprit from the futcommission • IS
.e i or crimeo•rtsti„ea 0: of
mere ad iieuratrey what trans') the
les,„
nee and the of
labour, and when the a deportationtol compalsey,
. peen-mance of
other hel'is
criminals reached ne we
sphere, man of unishme
remitted, When tie severities of their p cat
it fie° bee
the
into office, the first present Governmer f
qiiinestion that forced itivlstn.hrineot or
Majeste's Ministers,
criminals, reference to the pill' s
t trac-P°to
ways wheiher the
tation could be continued with an sYstem henefit
aoy degree of .rageu:
that society who,e laws the criminals had out ea
cb
Under the old system, as soon as the criminal ee° Ass
another part of the world, the compulsory laball_Ar oat
not enforced by the Government, but it was carrielaa
by individuals to whom the convict was assigned+ yet
labourer for a certain period. In many instance's!
convict, so far from beingpunished, was actually bet
in his condition, whilst the greatest of miseries ei"; 0
fiicted upon others, who had, perhaps, not
abandoned a criminal as the first. A report,
ioletion
presented in 1838, recommended that tratan," nseisn;
New South Wales should cease, and that tuei:rjea a.
went of criminals should be inflicted in penitent
‘Ol.lO
home and abroad, where their compulsory 100°000
he productive of some benefit to the e°l23, sesPer
Shortly after this report being presented,
ed. 1/1
tation to New South Wales was discontinued Oh
Diemen's Land, Norfolk , Island, Berl° thWilic.l
Gibraltar, only remaining as places torsois
convicts from this country were sent. The_, 001.4
these arrangements was not quite eatiefaatssio'ts s •
eiv
was then proposed that the number of nan"viot
abroad should be diminished, and that no on
tot ett
tenced to seven years' transportation should be deter
3 wag oaf
of the country. Shortly after that period sea 0
mined, to abandon altogether the hulk sYste°3' e taped
incre°
alteration necessarily involved a mate-a aloe a
number of convicts sent abroad. That possl,
brought on many evils, which he did not
existed'
bility bility of remedying whilst the present systesull_tero of resi
(Hear, hear.) The effect of the present la ler, ss„
forming criminals bad been far from satitfecn3"ei'i worP
that he attributed to the custom of maid
ngtlicient iterLir
together in large masses, without %11l
debinder 00,11,7„ate
tion, or, indeed, any means which wo
rsc, did not Mar- a
nation from one class to another. m- hot ;
tbo
any blame to those under whom that arr.-
lute ev";_..re
carried out-on the contrary, be 10" i dew- 0
there had existed on their part a very an=ions
carry the law into effect as fully and as
possible. Lord Stanley bad, in consequencelL" 00 (111.
of the old system, proposed that there should that tt!
ferent stages of punishment in the colonies, ar___,o ost:
criminal should be encouraged in the hope nr_gu!'„. of la
whilst the No,
ing his condition by good conduct,
out to
e,
creasing its hardships should be held_ ntr stool Y_
vent any misconduct or recklessness. liorathis pro.:
had proposed as one of these stages+ e:risone
r
tose l
bel tb°
g
bation gangs should be formed of n
who had passed the first stage of their pawe _
in Norfolk Island. These gangs were to. be
..;t stage_
direct superintendence of Government. Tir ne.,e„,
enabling lu ;Atli
was to give them probation passes, - . but .0
work for private parties for food and clothLupeo tin
was
out money, wages. This system was carried °u
time t
the direction of Lord Stanley, and for a
OW
to work favourably, but before he al__ to ,„
eventual result, he would call their attention first
_ln
system of transportation. That system, In. r„,', folleo7
stance, inflicted the punishment of deporta.ticl', „ardfle°,
court. tonal r
by followed -by a _ worldr 13,10
which end a DIM tO travel whither Fis befog
vided d 4 relm tO jaki ASO OP