The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-25 00:00:00

. /~

b•r for Salford, himself the representative of a great
English constituency—by doing justice to Ireland.—
(Cheers.) It appeared to him that the notion cf ju tine
to Ireland, is the of inion of Hon. Gentlemen opposite,
depended far less upon the plain principles of justice than
en those events which seemed to affect the right; of one
courts), in t,e same measure in which they affected the
interest and the safety of the other. Witless 'what
had taken place.—(llcar hear, hear.) His Hon.
Friend the Member for Liskeard had glanced a' it.
Look at the circumstances under which the eectire fran-
chise was first granted to the Irish people in the year
1792. A petition presentel by the Roman Ca•bolice of
Ireland te the Irish Parliament was flung under the tall-,
and seornfally reeudiated. Six months elapsed, and Mr.
Pitt, Or was not so bold a, the R:ght Hon. Gentleman
who ha I list a tdreved the House, but who was too brave
not to shriek f -ern the horrors of a cavil eas—Me Pitt
saw that the m of the Roman Catholics of Ire-
land—they were then there milieus, there are now
seven millions----was required for the security of the
country, and he granted the franc+i4e to the Irish people.
The raise of the Delved Weliirgt n bad I e n introduced
that night lay the flee. aml Learned Member for Bunion,
who called him, and justly cailsO hlm, a great and surpass-
ing man.—( Cheer.) He was a great argil.. torpes leg man,
attached to his party oa ordinary exert, i nr, hut who for-
got those connections when the great interest; of the
country reqrrirsri it. Th.at distingtoshed man lea: himself
a member of the hist: Parliament. Ile r erseeded the ad-
dress for the Catholic El aecipation Act of that day
Young as he was then, and c wnparatively ineeperienesd,
he could not look to I eland without seeing that the re-
conciliation of the R man Cstholics r£ that couunl
was indispensiblo fir the safety of the country.
Ills speech 03 the occasion was coefieed
to a few words. He sail thst " rel augmentation of f,,ree
was bade 'd necessary as me itioned in the sacesh from
the circumstances of the time. I 1 urge 1 what had he,n
recommended in the sprech from the Throne, and re-
specting as he did his Ca,holie fellowasubjects he ceeld not
help expressing his aperobati an of it. it bad obser e I
the loyalty of his Catholic fellow-country race, anal he hoped
that al animosity between all parties would disappear."
The man who used these words, 33 yeere efterwsris gat
up in the House of Lords. and said that be 1 )0k ed v i:h
apprehension on ciril marl* re, and he asked the Leeiala-
Pere to adept that great measure of concession.--( Cheers.)
As lose- a 3 the Csthol'es of Ireland used the franchise as
a trust for the Protestant interest, so long as their state of
subservency existed, as long as the landlord was held t )
1 e as much entitled to the vete as to tie rent, no complaint
was made against the exercise of the franchise by the 40s.
freeholders ; but when the people became conscious of their
eglita, when Oe influence of that Great- Assoei,ttion
which the Noble Lord seemed so solicitous should survive.
was in existence, and when the elections of Waterford,
Louth, and Clare, affu-del evidenct that as the numbers
in Ireland increasid, her moral energies expanded, then
and not ti 1 then, the 40,. freehold was abolished, and
the 10/. Tralidcation was established, with the solvent
tenant tts".—(Cheers.) He denicd the statement of
the lion. Member for Exeter, who had stated that there
was a condition, and be hi that fact from the speech of
the Hon. Member for Tamworth, in which he stated that
there was no condition. That speech proved 'that
t +ere was was no communication, and therefore no contract.
,But if th, re was a condition; were they not bound
to adhere to the qualification? The lion. Baronet had
refused to grant a double appeal, and in that be was jAned
by Lord Lyrellyarst. But then it was said if the qualifi-
cation sat insisted upon, the machinery must be ehaeged.
Now, if the machinery was °hanged, the engine would
work in an entire'y dirt. Tent way. But there were nit
wanting men of talent to renonstrate against the so'vent
tenant test; there was at that time a young patrician who
stood forward as the champion of the people's rights.
—(llrar, hear, and great cheering.) He remonstrated
against the solvent test ; the speech that was made by that
Noble Lord seas extent, and he would not trouble the
House with it ; it was read last night, and when the
Noble Lord was tainted with it, and the lion. Member
for Exeter came to the rescue, be did not deny the speech
—he did not deny that the Noble Lord hail denounce.d the
solvent tenant test. No, but he said it was before
emancipation. —( Cheers.) And accerlingly the Noble
Lord struck out of the Bill the solvent tenant test. This
was the speech of the Noble Lord--" Mr. Stanley con-
ceived it was sufficient to prove the freeholder had a benfii ial
istssest of let in the laid, without calling on him to
show that the solvent tenant could afford 10!. a year. '—
(Chre-e.) The Noble Lord said he wishel to make no
real cha-ge in the Reform Bill, but four Judges cf the
land had said he did—(Circers)—and this fact ought to
be impressed on the House, that the NoLls Lord had the
appointment ofsixty Barristers, and under the provlsions
of the Bill sixty names veer) rrgi•tered in favour of the
Noble Leeel, under the lastaelicial intsrpretation, and not
under the advent tenant tsst.—(Cheers.) When did the
Noble Lord first eempl,in of this? DA they hear one
word from him from 1832 to 1835 ?—(Cheers.) 0: as
long 'as he re.rained in office ?—(Contiaued aced ,g.)
NJ, until he changed his party he Lever changed his
mind.—( Cheers.) But when the Noble Lord and

the Memb.!r for Pembroke went over—when the

Right Honourable Baronet, the Member for Pembrcke,
s who in 1835 declared it would be disgraceful to him to
Join men to whom all their Eves they had been opposed—
((ireat cheering)—they might call him Repealer as much
as they pleased, but when they went over—when they
joined themselves to the men who opposed them in revery
shape—when they oohed themselves widi the Tories, and
something more—and when they became the confederates
of a faction they had denounced as miserable and expi-ing,
then the Noble Lord found it necessary to give proofs of
the siecerity of his conversion, and to mak". compensation
fur agreeing tl sw amp the House of Lords, and accord-
ingly the Noble Lord conferred upon his party the great
services he had to be t )w. Ile found that his party would
be destroyed by the Irish Reform all, and he therefore took
it no and airce-1 at it a blow not less mortal because it was
insidious.—(Cheere.) He says the laedlords shall once a
year have the opportunity of dragging the tenants before
the Assistant Barrister for the purpose of ripping up their
tit'r. Th.: Noll: Lord still adheres to his Bill, and why
should he not ? The greater the cenfusion, the greater
the obstruction.—( Great cheering.) He would not use,
in designating the purpose of the Noble Lord, the expres-
sion which that 'Noble Lord had himself made use of in
designating the 811 of his Noble Friend. He would not
say that the Noble Lord's purpose was false and fraudu-
lent; he would not use language so coarse. (Loud
re.) He was restrained by courtesy from giving that
designation to the purpose of the Noble Lord which ought
to be given to it.—(Cheers.) But who mild doubt
the purpose of the Noble Lrri who had observed
his conduct, had read his Bil', cr listened to his
declaration en Monday night as to the relatite duties
of landlords and tenants ?—( Ci care.) On that subject
le Lai given ut'e alee to sentiments os I ieh the holeel of
tl e Tory party would have shrunk from uttering.—
( Cheers. ) But what he had then !aid ought t o show the
people of England what manner of man it was who was
now t'te standartl-bra er of the Tories of this country.. It
ought to show them Or t the time was come whet those
aggtessi,e strides must be re.isted, and whet sense method
must he devised to protect from thre._t med
the hbeity ufEag!itharr. The Noble Isar I l.a i endea-
vented to Ina'ae it aepear that as regarded tl.e rcgi--
t the Bel of his Noble Friend ressrubled that
of the Mille Lore. You have a ravision, said the
N tae Leta!, and oe have a rcvisinr. We have
an eppod. and you have al appeal. Bills reaemble
one ancther.—( Elena brat.) But here the Gote•nmeat
gave a revision More registration; the ail of the
Noble Lord gave one arttr. The Gave:tam-it Bat gave
an appeal on questions of law only ; the N 'hie Leru's
8,1 l gave an appeal on questions of fact.—( Loud cheers.)
The Nul hi Lord had scald too much on their crcdu'i y
and simplicity in endcasouring to impress upon tl eat
theve re. emblances.—( Loud cheers.) Now, will le.pect
to the rr.f ng as a test. It had been chosen as a test by
Ilea. Get tlenten opposi.e. You give us a rati.tg Larder
the Poor-law as a test, said they, and we will g've you
municipal ref Loon ? The test of retieg had been given to
them as a tea fir the municipal franchise. and now they
ob:rcte Itoit as a test for the elcct:vo franchise If th were
sincere ia freir anxiety for the scttlerneAt of that question,
why not take the Poor sac as the basis, leaving the cre•-
tion of amr‘ent ? Oh, but sail the Hon. and Learned
lalember fir Exeter, we take the sol,ent tenant test • tieare bound to do so by the Eatanelpstim Act. Doubtle.s
he thought so ; but the Judg,a of Ireland differed front
him in opinion, and his ergurn,nts i t the R.:taie of CM-
mons tt e.-c of little use, since It:y could not find to en
talce into the Court of Exchequer in Deblin. Four of
the Judge.; had daclarcd they would not he bound by the
atei i,n of the majosito, and at that tl.:elaration the Hon.
hkrnLe: far Exeter bad declared himself Perketly horri-
Zed. Savo away half of the constituency of I eland,
sod the Honourable
and Learned Gentleman re-
o
tnaked calm and unmoved;
but vi late a rule of
but
(Hear, hear.)
law, and his indignation
teas
a to Lord Marisa -Id,
." Striae," said Ch itham, i I r
4‘ (mile the *tile Constitution to itbsuctetat e;inagneacl:bw,,y(ebr
as:li sit tra: quit and ct lea_touch
so( Westminster-hal', and the spider will it irt out I:ivnl its
venom." (Loud cheer r.) lie would read the 9.p‘;
Chit f Boron O'Grady on the stol
W ject of ail C.roifn rerce.h;
The g:it fur. Gentleman then r; al the &pint
om
sashlch it appta el the Chief Baron consiee that, slte
-Clog in a Cunt of App2al, he was net bound by tt
construction of hi.s breteren, and the only remedy fir tl is
evil was the: creation of a sugeri n. Court of Appeal. It
was the duty of th it Ilau.e to consider, not if this were
wet!, but what they ougi,t to de. What was their reason,
for not defieirg the franchise ? Why had they adeptea
all the poison of Sir Michael O'Loghlin's all, and
omitted tee antidote? It was right the • House should
know that in Sir M. O'Loghlin's Bill there had been ic-
trocluced a clause expressly defining the franchise; now
why had that clause beer, omitted from the Noble Lord's
:Bill? Why, because it was adverse to their party interests.
—( Loud cheers ) They would not iotreduc2 the clause
.—they would not put a stlo to the wrangling of the Ju,lg -a
;bay acknowledged the case to be scandalous, end set
they would not apply a remedy. Sir Michas; O'L tgh fn's
Bill had Ontained a claim deliaing the franchise to be n
,bcr,efiej3i inwoest one, and not a solvent tenant ore.
that clause had bee ' c ,r!tained in the Noble Lord's 13:11 it
:
would not have
been ndijoaed It was didaorenuous to rely
on ti.o authority of Sir M. e'Loghlin, and to conceal such
an iniportar.t fact as that.—(l.oul ch,m-.1 Would the
Noble Lord tell them now what Le would do? He
bad heard that question put again acrd ag -in,
and it had been answe:eci. He admitted the evils 11 Id
existed, yet he refused to define the fiarenia,-, and all the
profligacy which was the consequence lily at their
own
doors.. Now what was the constituency which Ireland
sought to possess ? He had remarked that the Right
Hon. Baronet the Member for Pembroke, bad grid that he
should regret if the gentry of Ireland should-be forced
into a combination to refuse leases to their tenants, The
Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire, on Mon-
day night, had explained the reason of the falling off
itl the- numbers of the' constituency, by stating that the
landlords bad found that the tenants did not agree
them in political opinions, and had, therefore, nu-
turally refused them leases.--( Hear, Lear.) It was
quite clear that the constituency was meltieg away,
that-there was a eaailaination against the Reform Bill to
turn the. lash counties auto Pyrouglip, retuning

EVENING EDITION• U

Members in the nomination of the gentry. The people of
Ireland were uneducated. The Noble Lord should recol-
lect this when I e attempted to take the franchise away.
Did the Neble Lord when he issued the Education Com-
mission for Ireland, despite the bowl which had been raised
.gainst it from Caithness to Exeter, forget the identity
between knowledge and power? Did ho thiek he could
=fine the education of the Irish people to the mere ele-
ments of letters ?—( Cheers.) The people of L eland knew
their rights—the people of Ireland knew the history of
heir country's sufferings-;.thepeople of Ireland
knew by what means Catholic 'Emancipation had been ob.
tained—( Loud cheers)—and they knew that those means
could be again resorted to if the necessity should arise.
The people of Leland knew that after Catholic Emancipa-
tion the Tories had relapsed into their former courser.—
( Cheers.) They knew that after the granting Municipal
Reform to England and Scotland they had r.:fesed it to
Ireland.—( Cheers.) They ki.ew the history of the
Spottiswoode gang—( Loud cle ers)—and cf that history
the Noble Lord's Bill was the postscript.--( Loud and
long continued cheelieg.) They knew the Noble Lord,
and shay f It de t it was necessary to force him, sot only
to rsi,e the edge, but to le event him again at-
tacking them. They knew the Noble Lord well
_it was a pity the knowledge was not re-
ciprocal, or tl e Noble Lord would feel that he
would net with impunity be allowed to pt.raue his c enee.
t them look at the Effect which the Ncble Lord had
already voduced by brit g:iig fear., arl the questior. A
year ago Ir lard was tranq there Vai no agitation,
the qt,e,tion of repeel was Lot mete ; suddenly the
Noble Lord's Bill is b:ought forwar,, and t'• e whole
cou, try is thrown into confusion.—( Ilea-, hear.) He
we'l remerete..ed the warn:ne given by the Hon. Mem-
ber f. r Drogheda to the Hon. Baron, t, that if ho came into
(Zee upon thit [lll, he must givens In l tad by some other
weason than publ:c spit i n; and be implored the Rig! t
II n. Baronet, if lie had the power, to st sp the Noble Lord
in his mad course. If he cline in on such a pi inciple, those
norm -tl schools of ag'tatien would be thrown open—the
reps eseLt t've.s of the peerle thrown out by the Bill of the
Noble Lord would find so.ne pl ice of !lieu' gathering,
and a confederacy of four-fold the power would le raised
to that before which his prudence quailed before.
(Cheers. ) He was greatly struck by a que,tlon put at
the Lesiening of the Session by the Noble Lord to the
Noble Secretary for Foreign Affairs. He then thought his
mind was engaged on something more important than the de-
struction of the Irish franchise—it was a most delicate
question. But was net the Noble Lord afraid that the
agitation would be carried farther than Ireland ; that it
might be carried across the Atlantic, amongst those
faithful Irish who had lean so loyal in
times of great difficulty ? Was he not
afraid that they might sympathise with their insulted
countrymen, and their loyalty become less chivalrous than
it had been ? Turning t s events nearer borne, be said at
once that any outbreak on the pert of his countrymen
would be to him utter ruin—be did not speak in
menace, but was it not monstrous:, that while
France was arming, they we-c disfranchi.ing—.while
France was raring ramparts, they weie undermining the
rest moral bulwarks which bound Ireland to this cone-
try.—(Cheers.) He feared no invasion—what he feared
was, that guest majestic England would not be able to main-
tain that high station to which she had beef, red ed by a
streeaman—that, divided at home, and exci ed, and en-
gaged, and crippled by Dish agitation, she might be com-
pelled to recede from the maje tic position she now oceu-
pi etl.—(oh, oh.) It would be amu compensation far
them to say, that although foreign Cabinets have not been
baffl2d, they had managed to put down Irish agit:tkin
—that they bad succeeded in putting under coercion
Popish multitudes—that they obtained verdicts from
martini Jurires, and that their ensanguined banners were
floating oven the towers of Dublin Castle.—(Cbeers.)
'l'qe debte was then adjourned.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of,
and the House adjourned at One o'Clock.