The Sun.
London, England, 1841-03-16 00:00:00

MORNING ED trioN.

to say, that when he accused the Ministers of the Crown
of supporting another religion at the expense of their
own, he made a very serious accusation which was very
ill supported. What the Government really were doing,
end what he trusted they would persist in doing, was
attempting to give fair, full, and complete operation to
the Act which was passed by the Noble Duke opposite,
for the emancipation of the Catholics.—(Hear, hear.)
Such was the effect, such the intention, and such, be
cone iv,el to be the duty of the Government with respect
to that Bill to which the Right Rev. Prelate gave his vi.
gorous opposition at one time, but to which afterwards
he did give, he presumed, his reluctant consent.—
(Hear, hear, and laughter.) The Right Rev. Prelate
at that time witldcd a pen not a crosier.—( Laughter.)
The R ght Rev. Prelate very soon after the parsing of
the Cethr.lic Emancirreim Act—and he (the Ma-quis
of Normanby) would not apply to him a pbra:e which
he was very apt to apply to her Majesty's Ministers—he
would not say " Quoad hoc, ergo proptcr hoc," but
certainly he might say, " post hoc," fur the Right Rev.
Prelate was allowed sh: r:ly afterwards to give to those
who were at the time Members of their Lordships' House
the advantage of his presence. —( Great laughter.)
Having gone through ell those subjects, he could not help
•ayirg that when he was called upon to vote that the ordi-
nance was unconstitutional, he must call upon their
Lordships to take into consideration the legality of the
Legislature to which they had given legality, the previous
income of the Seminary, and the manner in which the
Seminary had been treated by the Crown e‘er t-ince the
conquest. He trusted that th it Lordships would not
accede to the motion of the Right Rev. Prelate, that they
would refuse to throw tho curse of religious discord into a
community that, whatever might be its errors, whatever
might be the causes which produced civil strife, yet, never-
theless, had been ale ays singularly remarkable for Chris-
tian spirit and pea eful piety. He trusted that their
Lordships would pause tefore they interfered and advised
her Majesty to withhold her confirmati from the ordi-
nance which was in accordance Is i.h geecral equity, that
they would net do that which would interrupt the growing
prospeii'y of that colony. He therefore entreated their
Lordships to give a decided negative by a large majority
to the motion of the Right Rev. Prela•e.
Tho Earl of RIPON had listened with great atten-
tion to the speech of the Right Rev. Prelate, both that
night and on the previous occasion, when he presented the
petition to the House, but be had not been able to discover
the prirc'ple upon which he celled upon the House to in-
terfere and prevent the ordinance from becoming law.—
( Hear, hoar.) Judging from the speech of the Right
Rev. Prelate on the prosentltion of the petition, ho would
have supposed that the Rev. Prelate objected upon a
principle, viz., that there ought not t exist in any part of
the Q leen', dominions anything that could be urged as
tending to the support of the Roman Catholic religion. But
the 12... v. Pre!at: had himself abandoned that high ground
of p;inciple, for be st ted that he was prepared to give
up a certain portion of the sums which, under the ordi-
nance, must fall into their hands. If he gave up any
part of those sums he gave up the principle.—( Hear.)
But there was one view of the subject which had not been
looked ueon, which was, the position of the Sovereign
and Parl•ament with respect to colonies obtained by con-
gees'. If they conquered colonies, and found an estab-
lished religion existing there different from their own,
what were they to do—were they to extinguish it and
establ h their own ? He said that justice and policy
forbad it.—( Hear, hear.) The policy of England had
always been of a tot Illy different description. Common
sense must necessarily dictate that they could not first ob-
tain, and then keep, any colony, if they put such condi-

tions upen them as mutt engender eternal discord.—
( Hear, he kr.) When he was in office he found, that ever
since the conquest, the Seminary bad praefeally exercised
all the powers and authority which it was proposed to give it
by the ordinance, and no me, during that wlao'e period, had
ever srt up the pin, i‘ile that, because they were
Roman Catholics, they ought not t, have those
powers.
The only quest. on was whether there ought to be any
corporation coiling the tenures of the ci y of Montreal.
When he was in offie, he hsd Lean obliged to advert to
the procced'ogs authorised by the Earl of Bathurat, Sir
George Murray, and M. Huskisson, and he found that
not one Gt.verr.ment since the conquest had eve' attempted
to put their 1, gil sight in force, notwithstanding all the
opinions of the Law Officers of the Crown. It was a rate in
which .as most fit, prudent, nay, he would say, honest, to
make a compromise. It was possible that the parties
mig',t fail in t defence if they had the whole power of
the Crown against them. But the Crown would be placed
in a most invidious position if it pursued its claims against
them. The Ray. Prelate had talked of their committing
a great national crime in e3tablish'ng a Roman Catholic
Corpota ion, but he (the Earl of Ripon) would not find
anything to reproach his CODSC'Caee with in voting agains
the Rev. Prelate.
The Duke of WELLINGTON entirely concurred with
the latter pa-t of the speech of the Noble Marqui•, that what-
ever had been done with the great proportion of the property
stated by some to belong legally to the Crown, and by others
to the Seminary of St. Sulpice, he could never feel other-
wise than that it had been made over to the province of
Canada by the Act of Union—still, although he had
thought that, he had never doubted for one moment that
ample provision must have been made fur the equitable
rights upon that property belonging to the Seminary of
St. Sulpice. When he spoke upon the question upon the
previous occasion, he confessed that he was not then
aware of what had passed upon similar subject while he
was in the Cabinet. He had totally forgotten the Vans-
action of 1822. He was then in the Cabinet, aid must
have been a party to all that V. 8.3 done by the
Earl of Bathurst with respect to St. Nicolay. He must
have been aware of that transaction, but he had totally for-
gotten it' and, until he had read the papers upon the sub-
ject, he had bad no notion that it was of the nature which
it eppea-ed to be by the despatch of Lord Bathurst. The
Rev. Prelate had eadeavoured to draw a distinction be-
tween the corporation established by Lord Dalhousie un-
der the directions of Earl Ba burst, and the corporation
which was to be established by the ordinance under consi-
deration ; and he had made it out to be en ecclesiastical
corporation, because it referred to eccleaiastical objects
and purposes, He had also endeavoured to make out that
St. Nicolay was not an ecclesiastical corporation. Now
in his opinion the one was precisely the Paine as the other,
and newly in ihe same words.—(Cnee-s. ) He must
have beta a patty to the despatch establishing St. Nicolay,
and he must a !mit that was an ecclesiastical corporation,
established for Roman Catholic objects, and no others.
He must c ,nfess there were other transactions and letters
on the same subjact, at a much later pe-iad, which had
escaped his recollection. He was in his Majesty's service
in the ye.rs 1834 and 1835. The Noble Earl (the Earl
of Aberdeen) who sat by him, then adopted the de-
spatch of his Noble Colleague in office (the Earl cf
Ripon). There was one remark which he (the Duke cf.
We'liegton) begged to make on the instructions of his
Noble Friend to the Earl of Amherst, and it was this :
His instructions to the Earl of Amherst referred to a list
of grievances, to the number of ninety-two, which had
been brought forward in the Assembly of Lower Canada ;
and, adverting to the despatch of his (the Duke of Wel-
lington's) Noble Friend, the Noble Earl who had just ad-

dressed their Lordships directed the removal of one of
tho'e grievances. It was impossible that a person who was
privy to the instruction could now say that he could not
consent to the formation of a corporation of that descrip.
lion on account of certain principles which it was quite
clear the c not applicable, and had not been applied to
Canada for a considerable number of years; therefore he
(the Duke of Wellington) certainly felt that he could no'
stand upon th ! grounds which he had st ‘ted the other
night to their Lordships as the sourc! of his ob-
jectionto that ordinance, bonus:, of that ordinance he

himself had Leen, in two or three iistanees, a party to the
direction and arrargernent ; an i it appenrel that e.,ts-
blishments of the kind had been frequi.nt'y made within
the province of Lesver Canada. The Right Reverend
Prelate had that night gone at some length into the con-
sideration of the ordinance, with relation to the property
which had been given to the Seminary of Sr. Sulpice,
which amounted in capital -t 6 per cent., to a revenue of
30,0001. a year. (The Noble Duke hero referred to the
proceedings of the (,ommissionerr, to show the exact
amount of the revenue and
which
nixpenditure of the Semi-
nary, and the objects for the grant was made ;
from which it appeared that educ and religious wor-
ship were the main objects of the a."on and the remainder
'was to be disposed ofas the Gove4arrn,t, might sanction.)
Now, really he (the Duke of \Vela must say that
ailoal.ndst the objects
there could be no reasonable objectiong
nocpposite to
first set forth. It was for the Noble
consider in what way he should remove the i
that would arise if the Act ef Parlimernience
el er-ride the ordinance; and, taking that w
should
of t'2e matter, ha (the Duke of Wel ingvtioen)
thought that the Right Reverend Prelate would have
*done better to leave the question to its own difficulties.
He might have thus obtained the object desired, and not
seek t) enhance the difficulties of the matter by dividing
the House upon the question. By dividing the House be
could not obtain the objects which be sought. The result of
Isis (the Duke of Wellington's) consideration of the docu-
ments which bad been last brought to h's remembrance, was
that he had determined to give his vote that night against
the proposition made by the Right Rev. Prelate.
The Bishop of EXETER said that he would first take
notice of the speech of the Noble personage who had just
sat down, and who was entitled to bis first attention on

every occasion. However disappointed he (the Bishop
of Exeter) was at the vote which the Noble Duke had
announced his intention of giving, he did not nish to make
the slightest complaint of the inconsistency which
anarked that declaration. (The Right Rev. Prelate here
entered into statements to show that no comparison
could be fairly instituted between the Seminaries of St.
Nicolay and St Sul ice the former of which was, he con-
tended, e-tablished for the purposes of general education,
the teaching of tbe French, Latin, and English languages,
philosophy, mathematics, &c. The latter for the pur
poses of spiritual instruction and the cure of souls, and
that, he said, constituted an ecclesiastical corporation.
}1...! (the Bishop of Exeter) would not divide the House on
that night, for by reason of the Noble Duke's declaration,
such a proceeding would not settle the question. Noble
Lords might call for a division when he sat clown ; but if
he was obliged to go below the bar cf that House, and
alone, be would have no feeling of shame for himself, but
of regret, for the feeling that would be entertained to-
wards others, who had not accompanied him.—( Hear. )
The Noble Marquis had referred in a buoyant manner—
(Laughter)—to Mr. Burke, Lord Chatham, Lord Halifax,
and Lord North, with something of a sneer at George the
Third.—(" No, no.") He said, " Yes, yes." The Noble
Marquis had thought fit to sneer at that Sovereign, whom
most of their Lordships revered, and whom be (the Bishop
of Eleteq kespeoiellrmered as a most pious and admir-
able meharelsv.-2.t Hear) But he had the authority of the
Nobl ama himself, and of all who sat on the same
be°~larid of all who bad served the Sovereign of
eatrutry.jethe tame stations since the year 1760, when
the ifllicksds....,.
t
4 -.A7---seexnettons were sent out to Canada. These
inslc‘Sse-sitd'air aribsequently sent out, said it. was the
hinedicsicen&o4 itlathduteyr9ofugithcmesOfTruor, at the same time that
be of the King's new sub-
jects, heihould not allow the
consi-
dered the Established ChUreb, whichoa Catholic to be
the Church of England alone in all character belonged to
Wow. The Noble Marquis referred hi'kul iil.tteitariitiotinoif