The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-27 00:00:00

brotght before the House, and he felt the necessity of doing so
again. The mistakes that were committed were most nu-
m, rous, a,,,, s sie all atir:buted to the r:,,. Lo;
of Admiralty ; but that was, in a great mea-
sure, the fault of the First Lord of the Admi-
ralty himself, there was a great deal too much thrown
upon cirri. The three Lords of the Admiralty had all
the decks under their management according to the
presentarrangement ; but if this were altered--if the fleet were
put ulster the control of the First Lord of the Admiralty,
and if be docks were put under the second or the third Lord,
he believed that matters would turn out much more correctly.
He spole from experience when he said that, for he had had the
building of one ship himself; he had to consult with the builder,
with the engineer, and with the ethers; but he had invariably
had tie builder and the engineer brought together,
so that by their frequent consultations each might know the
other'sduties and preparations more perfectly, and soaharmony
be estaliished which alone could ensure correctness and adapta-
tion. He was sure that without that, they could not go on as
they ou;ht, and yet, as it was at present, the builder was per-
haps at Portsmouth and the engineer at Woolwich, and all
that eacl had of the other's work, was what could be supplied by
drawing. He felt assured that his suggestion as to the divi-
sion of services by the Lords of the Admiralty would yet be
adopted, despite the First Lord whoever he might be ; for it
was impossible that he could execute all the duties which
he was expected to do were he a young man of 30 yesrs of age,
much less if he were a man at 76, as his friend Sir George
Cockburn was. Another point to which he would address
himsdf was the manning of the ships. They were told that
their men of war were not to be ships without guns, and they
were told that the 40-gun ships were manned with their com-
plement. But what was the number of men at present in the
service? Why they were 4,000 short.
Mr. WARD—(laughing)-4,000 men over. That was not
a great mistake.
SirC. NAPIER—WeII, but the late Government, when they
came nto office, made large professions. Sir George Cockburn told
them that their line-of-battle ships and the other ships of war
must se properly manned, and he began on a magnificent
scale. But what was the end of it? Why, when the
squadron which was then fitted out put to sea, they sailed
with one-third less men than their complement, and the
vacuity was filled with marines. But it was said that the
squadron was out upon trial; yet -there were three of the ships
at that moment in the Mediterranean, and one of them was
at L'slon. If there were 4,000 men above the complement,
he wished to know how they were to be paid out of the esti-
.mates d the present year? Last year they were 150 men
short, aid this year they were 4,030 men over the complement
—how, then, could this extra number be paid out of a vote
no larger Iran, if it was so large, as it was last
year ? He must appeal to his Right Hon. Friend behind him,
and take sis wonted argument that with so small a vote they
would be obliged to have recourse to amounts voted for differ-
ent purposes, a course which was not to be approved of, for
thus they did not know what this Government was doing. If
they wished money for any object, that object ought to be
named, and a vote specifically taken for it. The Noble Lord
the Member for Lynn had chosen to think and to say of him
(Sir C. Napier) that. he who had just stepped off the quarter-
deck into the dock-yard could not be well fitted to
enter upon the discharge of his duties. Perhaps
he (Sir C. Napier) might say of the Noble Lord, that he
who had just stepped off a quarter-deck peculiar to himself—
for Newmarket and Epsom were the quarter •decks which he
had walked, and which he had left to come into that House—
could not have been very familiar or very much a master of
the duties which he was called upon to perform. But be
would tell the Noble Lord that his (Sir C. Napier's) vessel
would be ready on Saturday night to put to sea on a trial
cruise, and he would invite the Noble Lord most heartily
take a trip with him. He would give him a trip round the
Isle of Wight, and as good a bottle of—(Laughter)—as good
laosbsoottf Isislef port as he could get in the kingdom, and perhaps
that would prove a so/wit/in to his wounded feelings over the
Railway Bill.—( Laughter and " Hear, hear.")
Mr. CORRIE rose to make a few observations in reply to
the Gallant Admiral who had made his speech now for the
sixth time, as Hansard up stairs would show. Especially he
must notice one point of importance, not only to the
Admiralty, but to the nation at large—he meant the
building of iron vessels. The Admtralty felt it their
duty to encourage ship-building, from a material
which abounded in the kingdom. They were aware that the
timber used is the dockyards was for the most part of foreign
growth, and that during the last war there had been an exces-
sive demand for it. It was natural, therefore, if they could do
it with equally good effect to the navy, that the Admiralty
should wish to encourage the use of materials possessed by
Great Britain within her own territories. He thought these
were quite reasons sufficient to justify the late Board of Admi-
ralty in constructing steamers of iron. But the Gallant
Admiral thought that this experiment was carried
to to great an extent. Now, out of these 33
vessels, he should put nine out of the list. Several of
them were very small vessels, and he should, therefore,
only take twenty-four on which he should make any remarks.
The Gallant Admiral had stated that these iron ships strained
so that there was great danger of both crews and cargoes being
lost. That was the first time that he had ever heard such a re-
pot t, and just as he had a paper put into his hands by an Irish
gentleman who had made 250 iron vessels, some of them of a,
much as I,B''o tons, all of which were seaworthy; and he need
only take the instance of the Great Britain, now lying in Dun-
drum Bay, where it has been subject to a very heavy sea, with-
out that straining of which he complained ; but of the twenty-
four vessels, one was built only fur the purposes of experiment
on the screw propeller, and only six, the Birkenhead,
and five others, that had been built for war ves-
sels. The others they had taken, because they could
get no others. Subsequently to the Nemesis being built.
another vessel of much larger dimensions had been built. It
was of 1,300 tons, and they had the report of a ship-builder of
s
e
gbNfaatfeTrhrga ruroyehecastir
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from
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vscremdNy;hiesrsivhaiahs.tmi
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repeatedly
vdhesttn
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harmless
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opinion was decidedly in favour of iron over wooden vessels.
Captain Hall was a man of as great exs erience as any man in
this or any other country. Then there was the evidence also
of Captain Charleville, who bad the Guadeloupe. The vessel
which he commanded was struck by a 24-pound shot, fired
from a distance of 1,000 yards, and the hole made was not
larger than just sufficient to allow the shot to pass through.
Another shot, an 18-pounder, struck the counter when fired
from seven hundred yards, and it only indented the iron, and
then passed away. Another shot, which passed through her
side, lodged in the coal bunker, but without starting a single
bolt. There were a variety of other instances which were
given by some of the most eminent officers in the British
navy, all tending to the same effect. So that he believed that
the late Board of Admiralty ought to be quite exonerated from
all blame ; yet he believe t that the present Board was quite
risht in holding their hands, and in refraining from going to
the expense of constructing iron steamers until, they had the
fullest assurance that they were fit for the purposes of war.—
( Hear, hear.) The Gallant Admiral had charged the late
Board with rashness in ordering so many as seventeen schooners,
but it should be recollected that these vessels were built for the
screw propeller. This was a charge that could hardly be sus-
tained, for if these iron vessels were not fitted for war purposes,
they would at any rate be fit for the conveyance of troops and
stores; and many of these schooners had been built from
a justifiable cause, that arose from the state of the
relations between this country and France. The
Gallant Officer (Captain Pechell) said that there
were the block ships, but it should be recollected that they
wanted vessels to move quickly about, and block ships were
totally unfit for experiments. He would not have troubled the
House to such a length but he was anxiosupsectoialidyefeansdretshpeeeltaetde
Board of Admiralty from the attacks that had been made
up in it.
Admiral DUNDA S thought that the attack of the Gallant
the
emiral
promotion
W or
officers.l3ratunfa He
found
unfair and unjust,
by
looking at the officer's
lists in 1816 and 1846 that as many as 1,454 officers had died.
The admiral's list had been reduced from 210 to 56; the cap-
tain's list from 851 to 697 ; the lieutenant's from :4,317 to
4,248. With respect to the number of promotions that had
been made, he could state to the House that upwards of 160
lieutenants had been promoted for meritorious services rendered
to the country, and he only regretted that double that number
had not been promoted, in order that the Government might
show their sense of the services that had been rendered to the
country.
as Captainithadelicited HARRIS was glad that this attack had been made,
the statements that had just been made on
both sides of the House, and he was still further rejoiced to
hear that our large vessels of war were not to be laid aside,
and that our seventy-four gun ships were not to be put out of
commission for the sake of using steamers. With regard to
steam .boats, he concurred with what had been said upon that
subject; but he did not ; think the steam-boat system had
yet been sufficiently developed. There was another point he
wished to allude to, though he was loath to do so; but after
what had occurred the other evening, he f :It it to be his duty
to do so. He deprecated very much the issuing of such
an order as that mentioned the other night by the Right Hon.
n
Secretary to the Admiralty, because, if the commander could
be entrusted with the power of correcting the men under
him without previously consulting a senior officer, he ought not
to be entrusted with the power at all. He would limit the
power of punishment to thirty lashes, and make that number
uniform both for home and foreign service. The punishment
might be reduced by degrees, but he thought it could not con-
sistently with the maintenance of due discipline be abolished
altogether. As another mode of punishment for slight offences,
such as drunkenness, &c., he would suggest that the allowances
of meat and grog should be reduced.
Mr. HUME said the subject of improving ship building for
the navy was one of considerable importance to the country,
and did he not know that the matter was under the considera-
tion of the Government he should have felt called upon to
bring it before the House. INaval architecture had long been
neglected in this country, and it was a matter of disgrace to the
country that its models for ship building for the navy bad been
taken from the Spaniards, the Dutch, and other nations.
Some improvement ought to be introduced into the naval sp.:
tem of the country in that respect. and he was very glad to
hear that the matter was being inquired into. With regard to the
subject of promotion, he would defer his observations upon
that point till a return of the promotions had been laid before
i
the House, and, when that report did come, re
should
extravagant and inconsistent. He was no advocate for in-
creasing the wages, nor was he disposed to adopt the sugges-
tionprepared to prove that the promotions of past years had been
to employ the navy in carrying food from abroad, because
it would derange the commercial system of the country. He
would decidedly do away with corporal punishment, and sub-
stitute for it an improved mode of education. Let the Govern-
ment adopt that course, and they
might depend upon it the
men would be more steady and attentive to their duty. He
was an enemy to the system of holding
out the inducements off
bounties for men to enter the navy, but rather
preferred a steady system of wages which should
increase exactly in the same ratio as wages in every other part
of the world.
The SPEAKER then left the Chair, and the House went
into a Committee of Supply, Mr. GREENE in the Chair.
NAVY ESTIMATES
Mr. WARD then rose to introduce the navy estimates. He
said—Sir, I have-a difficult duty to perform in laying before the
Ifouse the navy estimates for the year, owing, first, to the large-
ness of the expediture ; and, secondly, to the great variety of
the expenditure; but I will still do my best to make them as
intelligible as possible. Now, Sir, the grass estimate for the
year exceeds, by
62,840/ , the estimate proposed last year.
The net vote will exceed that of last year in
a still greater amount, but this arises from the peculiarity
of the credit account of this year. This year
the credits aineunt only to 175,000/., while last year they
amounted to 190,000/. ; so that the apparent excess is 77,0004
more in money than was required last year. I perfectly agree
with the observations that were made the other night by my
Hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth, and my lion.
Friend the Member for Coventry, upon the financial
state of the Exchequer, when they impressed upon
the House that nothing is more deserving the attention
of Parliament, or more required the watchfulnes of Parlia-
ment, the probable tendency of navy estimates to increase in
times of peace. They referred to the standard of 1834 and
1835, when the navy estimates only amounted to 4,245,0001.
Perhaps I might ask them why they did not go still further
back ? Why they did not go back to 1817, when the number