The Sun.
London, England, 1840-04-16 00:00:00

Tilt: SUN., LONDON, THURSDAY, APRIL 16, 1840.

•
had no fight whatever to interfere with the parties who I,
chose to expatriate themselves and settle in that nnun-
try, They all knew how the other colonies had been
treated by Great Britain, and by the present benign
Government too.—(Cries of " Question.") That was
flit! qUe6titi: What bud the “overrurent done in Ca-
nada ?—(lnterruption.) The British Governthent now
wanted to lay hands upon New Zealand, in order to
establish an aristocracy there.—(lnterruption. A
gentleman on the platfortn begged the meeting would
allow the speaker to proceed, and he should bo.pre::
pared to answer him.) He feared that it would not
be acceptable to ears polite to hear passages from the
Divine writings quoted. No man had a right to the
soil individually, and what no man could claim indivi-
dually could not be claimed collectively by a nation or
community. What was the consequence of the British
Government taking possession of Canada ? Their
money had been taken from them, and their
churches burned, and their persons imprisoned.
The working classes were more interested in this ques-
tion than any other class of persons, but although they
were not directly, they were indirectly precluded from
being present at the meeting.—(Cries of " No, no.")
They were, because of the time at which the meeting
was held. Let them look at New South Wales. What
had been done there? Had any one of those toiling
men, the pride and boast of their country—those who
manned our navy and filled the ranks of the army—ever
been sent out to that colony ?—(Cries of " Yes, yes ;
thousands.") He believed not. That was not the way
in which matters were managed ; on the contrary, how
many square miles had Mr. Peel, a relation of Sir R.
Peel's ?

_ .
Capt. ACKERLEY—Twenty millions of acres.
Mr. SPUR had not time to make himself acquainted
with such statistical details, but he was informed that
Sir R. Peel held 20 millions of acres.—(Loud laughter.)
Was it the intention of the Society to send out the
working men ?—( Yes, yes.) He understood Sir Win.
Moleswerth, the Member for Leeds, had something to
do with the Society ; if so, he could assure him that in
his own county of Cornwall, as well as in London, there
were thousands of persons willing to 0 because they
wore half starving, but they would never consent to be
governed by the benign Government of this country.—
(Loud cries of " Off, off.")
The LORD MAYOR said the speaker had had every
indulgence, and it became his duty now to ask whether
it was his intention to move any resolution, and if so, of
what nature ?—(Cheers.)
Mr. Scott said it was the first time lie had ever seen
a speaker put down at a great public meeting—it was
the very extreme of tyranny. His amendment. was—
" That it is the opinion of this meeting that the British
Crown has no right to interfere with the subjects or
inhabitants of New Zealand ; but that they and the par-
ties settled there have a right and the power to make
laws to govern themselves."
C7,ptain ACKERLEY seconded the amendment amidst
much laughter. He deprecated the interference of any
Society with the inhabitants of New Zealand—all our
colonization was a species of fraud, and he was credi-
bly informed that Lord Durham had already posses-
sion of 50,000 acres in that country, which he had
obtained by the distribution of gin, rum, and other
things.—(Great laughter.) He would not detain the
meeting longer than five minutes, and that for the pur-
pose of merely saying, that two gentlemen who had ad-
dressed them that day had stated that they looked
with suspicion on the merchants. Now, for his own
part, he thought that the merchants ought to keep an
even hand, and not do that for the rich which they
would not do for the poor. He did not come forward
to oppose anything to the interest of commerce, but
when he saw that a motive was kept out of sight lie
trusted that the Lord Mayor would do everything in
his power to put the subject in its true light. When
he saw bankers supporting a Company he always felt
that they had got their eye to the windward.—
(Laughter.) If a Government was to be established
in New Zealand let it be done by the Government,
not by a Company.—(Hear.) He cordially seconded
the amendment.

The Prebendary of EXETER wished to state, in answer
to the question put by the worthy operative who had
addressed the meeting, whether a single operative had
been sent out to New Zealand, that there had. A
shoemaker at Exeter, who had done some benefit to
Lord J. Russell, at his election, has been sent out there
under the appointment of a Magistrate.—(Hear.)
The LORD MAYOR then put the amendment and the
original resolution, and declared the latter to be carried
unanimously, and the former to bo lost.
Mr. HAWES, M.P. for Lambeth, then rose to move
the next resolution. If he thought the object of this
Society was in any way hostile or injurious to the work-
ing classes, he would be the last man to stand forward
as its advocate. Having no pecuniary interest in con-
nection with the Society, but having simply joined in
the outset to promote its establishment, he could not
refrain from coming there that day to support it. The
resolution he had to move had the advantage that what-
ever opinions were entertained of the Society, he be-
lieved that all present would be anxious to concur in
supporting the resolution.
Mr. YOUNG begged to inform the Hon Member that
the meeting of that day was not connected with any
Society, but was for the purposes of taking the opinion of
the public upon a most important question.—( Hear,
hear.)

Mr. HAWES said that he had certainly connected the
proceedings of the meeting with the New Zealand As-
sociation, but he now stood corrected, and would as-
sume that the object was to petition the House of
Commons to protect the rights of the Crown in New
Zealand, and to establish a sound system of government
and colonization there.--(Cheers). He could not
conceive any object of more importance than that which
had in view the protection of a colony from being made
a penal settlement, which he understood it would be
made, unless some interference took place. The ques-
tion they had now to discuss was, whether a settle-
ment having been formed in that part of the hemisphere,
a government should be established to guide the energies
of the people there, and spread the name of this coun-
try through that part of the world.—(Hear, hear.)
He did not know whether those he addressed were
aware of the evils inflicted on New South Wales by
the system of transportation that was carried on ;
if they were, he was sure they would do
all in their power to prevent its being carried on in
New Zealand.(Hear, hear, hear.) For that reason
it was that he raised his humble voice against its being
made a penal settlement. He was not, however, with-
out hope that the resolution which he had to propose,
condemning its being made a penal settlement, if it re-
ceived the approbation of the meeting, would have its
weight, not only with the Government of this country,
but the other Governments of the globe. The settlers
in New Zealand ware composed of some of the most
respectable families in this country, and he trusted
therefore, that all would raise their voice to prevent the
evil of this country being made a penal settlement. So
that, at all events, men of honesty, sobriety, and virtue,
who bad the courage to visit those distant regions,
might not be subject to the evils of contamination and
vice, the inherent consequence of that atrocious system.
—(Hear, hear.) In that opinion he was strongly forti-
fied by a letter he held in his hand, which had been
addressed to the Secretary, by one of the most 'dis-
tinguished Prelates of Ireland, the Archbishop of Dub-
lin. The letter was dated the 13th of April, in which
his Grace stated that he should have left town previous
to the meeting at the Mansion-house, which he should
otherwise have been most happy to attend, for the pur-
pose of protesting against the system of penal colonies,
which By stem only tended to keep up and diffuse a
moral pestilence.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Hawes)
hoped the working classes would join him in this resolu-
tion. If they advocated colonization on wise and sound
principles, then they would agree with him that infusing
vice and immorality by law into the midst of a colony,
was a most infamous and iniquitous opposition to the
real interests of such a colony—(Hear, hear)—and if a
working man ought to be protected from anything, be
ought to be protected from that example of vice which
would certainly be set him by making the colony a
penal settlement.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Memb?r
concluded by moving the second resolution—,. Teat
d 'eply impressed with the pernicious results of convict
colonization, this meeting earnestly deprecates the esta-
blishment of a peaal settlement, whether British or
foreign, in any part of New Zealand:'—(Hear, hear.)
The LORD MAYOR wished to observe that if the in-
dividual who had proposed the amendment to the first
resolution had looked at the requisition, he would have
seen there was not the least necessity for that amend-
ment. He would have been ashamed of himself, as
their Chief Magistrate, to have endeavoured to have
forwarded the interests or views of any Society, under
the mask of calling a public meeting of the citizens of
London.—(Cheers.)
Mr. MARTIN SMITH seconded the resolution.
Mr. GEORGE FREDERICK YOUNG said that nothing
had been further from his intention than to have
addressed that assembly, but he had been induced to
do so at the earnest solicitatiori of friends who took a
deep interest in the question. He would offer a few
observations, in order to correct some misapprehensions
that appeared to prevail, both with respeq to. the ob-
jects of the meeting, and the precise potionin
stood.h h
the question submitted to their ;consideration.
his lot to have with a variety of individuals on the
subject of New Zealand, he had found but one In the various communications which it had fallen to
uni-
versal interest prevail respecting the colonization
of that magnificent island, but he had also found
a lamentable ignorance as to the fasts of the
case, and the position of the country.—(Hear,
hear, hear.) The tale of New Zealand's wrongs and
Britain's injustice, might be shortly and simply told.
Ile did not mean to bring charges against any partica-
lar Government, or any particular Adminiaration, but
this lie would say, that the course pursued by the Go-
verment of this country with regard to New Zealand
had been fraught with injustice, and that colony was at
this moment attended with perils that not a man pre-
sent at that meeting would not do his utmost to avert,—
( Ilear, hear.) The island was first discovered by Tas-
man, in the seventeenth century; and Captain Cook,
in 1769, planted.on the island the standard of Britain

In ;the course of a feW,yekrs Governor Phillip being ap-
pointed Governer of the North American Colonies and
their dependencies, Stew ryealand carne under his care
and, up to 1814, he was not aware that a sfiicion bad
been breathed against the right of Great Britain to the
sovereignty of the islands of New Zealand, subject, as the
first tasolution had stated, to the inalienable rights of
the riatiVe inhabitants, Matters went on ; numbers of
individuals, British subjects, continued to locate them-
selves there; and a number of persons associated them-
gives tdgether, not for the purposes that had been ca-
lumniously imputed to thedi in quarters in which the
information actually possessed ought td have led to more
generous treatment. That Association was formed not
for the purpose of selfish gain or unworthy lucre, but
for the purpose of leading in a right direction the spirit
of emigration that had become prevalent, and of colo-
nizing New Zealand upon just and right principles.
Communications had taken place between the Govern-
ment and those who had assumed the serious, the aw-
ful responsibility of as&stiug in the location of hun-
dreds, almost thousands, on these shores. He (Mr.
Young) had been present when a number of highly re-
spectable gentlemen had waited upon the head of the
Colonial-office ; and Lord Durham, who, whatever
might be thought of his political opinions, was as noble
and high-spirited a man as ever wore a coronet.—
(Cheers.) Lord Durham was asked by Lord Nor-
manby, " What is it the New Zealand Company re-
quires ?"—and the patriotic, the disinterested reply of
Lord Durham was, " My Lord, the Company desire
nothing for themselves—(Cheers)—they ask no mono-
poly—(Cheers) ; they ask no exclusive privileges—
(Cheers) ; all that they request may be comprised in
two French words, "Laissez faire,"—to be let alone.
—(Cheers.) But now that hundreds and thousands
were going to those shores, we ask you, the paternal
Government—you who will not allow them to shake
off their allegiance—that you shall extend to them the
benefits of peace, law, and order.—(Cheers,) How,
had that pathetic appeal been responded to ? On
the honour of a gentleman (said Mr. Young, emphati-
cally) I declare that to my mind, and, I believe, to all
who were present, the reply of Lord Normanby was
such as to justify us in thinking that Government would
do all they could to effect these praiseworthy objects.—
(Hear, hear.) Otherwise, I solemnly assert I would
never have lent myself to the encouragement of the re-
moval of so many of my countrymen to New Zealand.
—(Cheers.) It was nothing, however, but the strong
pressure of public opinion which induced the govern-
ment to take effectual measures for the attainment of
these objects, which humanity, justice, and policy alike
recommended.—(Cheers.) For what had the Govern-
ment hitherto done ? What, alas ! was too often the
case—nothing.—( Hear, hear.) Absolutely, positively
nothing. They issued a " Treasury Minute," for-
sooth, determining to send out a Consul,
and actually with a declaration calculated to
prejudice, if not to injure, the rights of
this country to the possession of New Zealand—
(Hear, hear, hear)—and this, too, at the very time
when foreign nations were eagerly waiting for such a
justification to attempt a settlement on the island.—
(Hear, hear.) And what had been the result ? Why,
that the French Government had given aid in men and
money to a Company for taking those very steps in New
Zealand which it was so desired and so desirable to pre-
vent in our own case, namely, for the establishment of a
penal settlement.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Now, how bene-
ficial would be the consequences of holding out en-
couragement to the well-conducted of the labouring
classes to settle in this fine island ?—( Hear, hear.) For
he could assure the working classes that it was mainly
with a view to their interests that the Company had
been formed—(Hear,
.hear)—and notwithstanding all
the disgraceful attempts which had been made to excite
public prejudice, he would defy any man, looking at
the list of names connected with this Company, to lay
his hand upon his heart and declare that he believed
they were actuated by sordid motives of pecuniary gain.
—(Hear, hear.) The rights of the native population
ought to be respected ; but, in fact, society in the
island was now becoming polluted at the very source,
and the result must ultimately be, if things went on as
at present, the entire extinction of the natives.—(Hear,
hear.) Would it be credited that a British Captain
had been found capable of conveying some hundreds of
desperate and ignorant savages from one part of the
island to another, and allowing a bloody contest to
ensue, in which above fifty were cruelly murdered ?
(Hear, hear, hear.) And one of the chief's wives was
actually seen wearing the entrails of one of the mur-
dered chiefs as a necklace. That unfortunately was
but too true, and was but a small sample of what was
going on. Who were the settlers there now ? The
runaway convicts of New South Wales, and runaway
sailors from our ships—the very worst of characters of
all sorts. The mover of the amendment had said it
was their right to make laws to govern themselves.
Allow those runaways to make laws who were taking,
• not only the property, but the lives of the inhabitants,
and pursuing a course of the utmost demoralization
!
(Cheers.) One burst of indignation must come
from every honest man who heard the proposi.
tion. In anticipation of that meeting, a paper had been
laid on the table of the House, and bad been put into
the hands of Members only that day, which repeated all
the calumnies of the newspapers of the last day or two.
He would not waste their time by descanting on the
unfair and ungenerous mode in which such attacks were
made upon parties who could not possibly defend them-
selves ; but could any one imagine that any statesman
did his duty by putting forth such a paper at a time
when the sovereignty of his country over a land was
disputed by a foreign nation ? What would be said to
such conduct in America—(Cheers)—that land of free-
dom and liberty ? They would at once go to war with
any nation putting forward such a claim as was now
advanced by France. He begged again to say that
there was a great difference in the question of
the sovereignty of the aborigines and of a claim
made by a foreign country. Such foul calumny
could proceed only from one source, and it
was that which had hung like an incubus upon all
the proceedings of the Foreign-office for years past.—
(Cries of " Name.") He had no hesitation in saying
that he alluded to Mr. Stephens, who for many years
had paralyzed every effort at liberality on the part of
the Foreign-office ; it was his conviction that no other
man could have placed in the hands of Members of the
Legislature such a tissue of nonsense as the Blue Book
he held in his hand contained. In the name of the com-
mon cause of humanity—for the interests, not only of
the aborigines of New Zealand, but of the people of this
country—he called upon them to support the cause the
Society had so much at Heart.
Mr. SPUR again appeared, but was met with loud
cries of " Spoke, spoke," and " Off, off." He said he
only wanted to put a question to Mr. Young. That gen-
tleman had argued that taking possession gave the right
of sovereignty. Now he wished to ask, supposing that
he (Mr. S.) were to take possession of Mr. Young's
watch, would that give him a right to it ?—(Laughter.)
Mr. YouNG—lf the gentleman tries that experiment,
he would probably go to the southern hemisphere sooner
than he expected.—(Laughter.)
Mr. H. G. WARD, M.P., came forward to move the
next resolution. After the very powerful speech which
they had just heard from his lion. Friend Mr. Young,
he would not trespass at any length upon their time.
He should first read the resolution which had been con-
fided to him. (I\lr. Ward here read the resolution.)
In the sentiments it contained he fully concurred, and
he must say that he had come there not with the inten-
tion of taking any part in the proceedings, but for the
purpose of hearing the sentiments of some of the leading
members of what might justly be termed the first com-
mercial community in the world.---( Hear, hear.) The
question was one in which he had taken a very deep in-
terest, and it was one in which the prosperity of the
country, and the internal peace of Europe were deeply
involved. With respect to the observations made by
one Gentleman who had moved an amendment, and who
had spoken of the position of the working classes, he
must say that he fully agreed with him that the ques-
tion was one in which they were much interested. In
fact those lands to which the resolution referred, were
the patrimony of the working classes of England. He
was delighted to see in the present meeting the proof
that a feeling was now prevalent that the Government,
in the manner in which it had disposed of its waste lands
in its Colonies, had betrayed its trust—( Hear, hear)—
that hitherto they had been made the source of petty
jobbing in the Colonial-office, and had been distributed
in favour of the aristocracy, for lie saw no use in
mincing the word.—(Hear.) Those who had influence
at head-quarters, obtained grants of these lands, in
former times, to the exclusion of all others ; but lie
regarded the present meeting as a proof that that
system was broken up; that all emigrants and specula-
tors, under the protection of Government, should have
fair play, and that those mysteries of Downing-street,
which had marred the greatest blessings that any coun-
try ever had placed within its reach, were for ever at
an end.—(Cheers.) The Gentleman who moved an
amendment, said that the British Government had no
right to impose laws upon thoie who emigrated to New
Zealand. That was a very wide question. He did not
think that either in New Zealand, or Australia, they
should have an Established Church, or a House of Com-
mons, but the great principles of English law would be
transported with the language and customs of the
people, and social order must be established by the Go-
vernment, in the first instance.—(Hear, hear.) The
settlers would naturally take with them the habits
and feelings of the English people. But it was as a
commercial question that it was most fitly agitated in
the cit) of London. Their trade was not in the thriv-
ing state in which it formerly was.—(Hear, hear )
They had not the same success which they formerly had,
owing to the competition which now, existed on the
Continent. Look, on the other hand, at the progresi
their trade hail made in various remote corners of
the world, where, fifty years ago, no Englishman
had set his foot.—( Hear, hear, hear.) There were
from sixty to eighty vessels trading annually to Sydney,
all of them of large tonnage. The trade to South
Australia gave occupation to twenty-six or twenty_
seven vessels annually. Van Diemen's Land occupied
forty-seven vessels every year, and even to New Zea-
land, a settlement labouring under the most adverse