The Sun.
London, England, 1841-03-02 00:00:00

REGISTRATION OF VOTERS (IRELAND.)

Lord JOAN RUSSELL then rose, and said—He
was about to state the inte.itions of her Majesty's Go-
vernment with respect to the Bid of hie Noble
Friend the Chief Scerctety fu- I relerl. Ile
had thought that suhj.,et I,2leired some further
rene.i;'er.tton, and t was not pi edareil on the night
JIJ
el tip: last iliv,iott to state the itvi.,,t;olis of the tin- I
the matter :gas 011 e of sO much import-
ance the House would allow him to explain in a few
words the reasons for the motion which he was going
to make to the House. The first consideration 'Ailed
to the general business of the House ; and on that
subject he had considered that they were tow
arrived at the first day of March, and that the esti-
mates had not lir en yet voted, nor had the House gone
into a Committee of Supply. It was impossible to say
how long the discussions on going into Committee of
Sunly and the debate on t';e ertimatss might occupy
the time of the House. It was likewise to be con-
sidered that it would be very inconvenient to fix the
Committee for a Bill of the nature referred
to for some day on which it coul I not be conveniently
brought forward, in consequence of the Estimates not
having been previously iutroduced. It would likewise,
continued the Noble Lord, be very inconvenient to
many Members to be summoned to a very full attend-
ance immediately preceding Easter, when vary few
would be disposed to attend the House, and when any
debate in Committee could only lead to further
postponement. These are considerations affrcting
the general business of the House as relates to the
present Bill ; but there ate other considerations relating
to the Bill itself. , If I were to consider merely the di.
vision which had taken I lace on Friday morning last,
and the 296 Members who were present to vote against
the second reading of my Noble Friend's all, I should
be disposed to consider, were I to look to that
circumstance alone, that the measure was one
which could not in its subsequent stages obtain the
assent of the House. But the discussion on that
second reading would lead me to a very different con-
clusion. There were several Members who in swing
their determination to vote against the second reading
of the Bill did not dissent from what I consider the
general principle on which it is founded, viz., its being
advisable to endeavour to fix the franchise fir Ireland
by some clear and simple method, and at the same
time to amend the registra,ion laws in that country.
Tier Duke of Wellington and Lord Lyndhurst had
both stated in the House of Peers that they considered
the rating test the best possible test of qualification
under the Municipal Corporations Act. I think, there-
fore, that it would likewise 'Orin the best criterion
of the test of the right of voting for Mem-
bers of Parliament. With respect, therefore, to the
adopton of this general principle, I see no roe-
ton to delay the further consideration of this Bill; but
in order to fix the amount of the franchise, it is desir li
-
able that there should be, before the House proceeds
to further deliberation, further information as to the
valuation.--(Cheers and laughter from the Opposition.)
I am surprised at the feeling and sentiment which this
announcement seems to create in Hon. Gentlemen op-
posite, because I see on the benches opposite several Hon.
Gentlemen who spoke during the late discussion, aid
who made it the gist of their argument that, before they
could agree to the 101. test, it was absolutely necessary
that they should have further information as to the
valuation. 'Fberafore, when I stated that I proposed
to gratify the apps tise for information, I cannot but be
surprised at the manner in which that announcement
was received.—(Loud cheers from the Ministerial
benches.) However that may be, I think, in
common with my Honourable Friend the Secre-
tary for Inland, that it would be desirable that
we should endeavour to obtain some further information
as to the manner in which the valuations have been made,
so as to ascertain, at least to a great extent, the propor-

Lion per cent. which the valuation bears to the real value.
I do not think it will be necessary to defer the Bill to
any very long time to obtain this valuation. But I
think likewise that it is of the utmost importance
that the House should come to a calm and &liberate
consideration of the subject. I think that the forcing
on the part of the Government the assent of the House
to that peculiar qualification which they think best, or
on the other side a peremptory and abrupt rejection of
it, would be equally impottic, and with regard to a Bill
like this, concerning the whole interest of Ireland,

whoever bears the blame of prolonging in Ireland
unnecessarily the state of excitement which at present
exists there, would be deeply responsible to Ireland
and the country. I do not therefore propose to
delay the proceeding with this Bill beyond the
period when it can be fully considered. It is
of importance that it should go into Committee in
sufficient time for the Bi►l to pass this Session.
I should propose therefore to take the discussion in
Committee in the first week after the Baiter holidays

—(Murmurs on the Conservative side, and Ministe-
rial cheers)—and I propose that the Order of the
Day bo now read, for the purpose of its being postponed,
and I should propose to postpone it till Friday, the
23d.—( Renewed murmurs.) I see the Right Hon.
Gentleman, the Member for Montgomery, and some
others, seem to think that an unreasonable postpone.
ment, but my own opinion is, that to force on the dis-
cussion of this question without due consideration would
disappoint the feelings of the country.—( Hear, hear.)
Lord STANLEY immediately rose, and said—Sir,
I must confess that I shale 1 agely in the surprise—
....

(Tremendous cheering)—which has been expressed by
my Hon. Friends around and behind me, at the propo-
sition which has been made by the Noble Lord, and the
course which it is intendel tg pursue on the part of the
Government.—(Renewed cheering.) Not that we do
not think—for we have avowed it and declared it—
that the information on which the Noble Lord in-
tended to proceed with his Bill was so meagre and so
inconclusive as to be wholly insufficient for the founda-
tion of a measure of such importance—(Cheers)—not
that we do not think that the information, so far as it
seat in its meagreness itsel, would tend to destroy
the principle and the proportions of the Bill of the
Noble Lord ; but I at least do feel astonishment that
upon a subject of this immense importance, when
the Noble Lord himself presses upon us the
importance of the greatest consideration, the
greatest deliberation, and the greatest caution, at
the commencement of the Session, and before any
notice had been given from any quarter, her Majesty's
Government should have ventured to submit to the
consideration of the House a detailed proposal for a
measure of this extent, involving such interests, ex-
citing such hopes and anxieties, and that at the
expiration of one fortnight from that time, her Majesty's
Government should comedown to the House and tell you
that the information they had gia ea you is all the infor-
mation they themselves possessed.—(An ironical cry of
• Hear, hear," from the Ministerial benches.) Is it
not ad the information they possess ?—(Loud cheering
on the Tory side of the House.) Sir, I assume that
the Government in giving us the information they have
furnadied would give us all that it was in their power to
furnish.—( Hear, hear.) If they have not, they have
deluded and deceived the House—(Loud cheers)—
in calling upon Parliament to sanction a measure not
only upon evidence confessedly imperfect, but upon evi-
dence more imperfect than it was in their power to
afford.--(Cheers.) But I assume they have
foo
talk-
evidence, evidence, and than I say, for a Government, a ter a
• ing about the caution and deliberation necessary todobees
observed upon a measure of this sort, it
seem to me the height of rashness to bring forward

such a question, and to submit it in the form of a pro.
position, to be supported by the Government upon in-
formation which they now tell you f:ey feel to be in-
sufficient to guide the decision or to sanction the vote
of this House.—(Cheers.) I came down, naturally
expecting that the Noble Lord, having admitted and
having contended almost as strenuously as I did
for the removal of the evils involved in the sys-
tem of registration, but feeling that there were
still greater evils than that system of regist ration, namely,
the uncertainty of the law, and if there ss as greater evil
than that, it was the restriction tof the fra:lehile—l
natura'ly concluded that the Noble Lord, having
the recess to consider this matter, having con-
sulted with his colleagues, and having brought
forward a Bill which had received the sanction of the
Cabinet, and was a Government measure, would be pre-
pared to vindicate and defend the propositions they had
avowed and put forth as the foundation, as the princi-
ple, and, a 3 the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary
at War said, the very essence of the measure.—(Cheers.)
And, Sir, I must not permit tho Noble Lord even to take
the notice ha has done of the statements made on this
side of the House without pointing out the difference
in those statements. He tells us that it is admitted
that the Poor-law valuation is a desirable test of the
franchise. Now I tell the Noble Lord that in the sense
in which it is so used by the other side of the House, it
will be no such thing.—(Cheers.) Because the basis of
his Bill is excluding altogether the test of the 10/.
profit which was the basis and foundatiou of the mea-
sure which that day ten years the Noble Lord sub-
mitted to the consideration of Parliament. —(Cheers. )
'Fite Noble Lord in his 811 excludes from it alto-
gether the valve of the test of rating, and
he puts in its place that qualification which
any pauper may acquire. As a test of the
nett annual value of the property, the difference
between it and the rent paid in the beneficial
intere:t, a rate subjecting the party to taxation is a
valuable check. It is important to limit the value
of the franchise held, but unless the amount paid
for holding was combined, it was no real test. !
came down preparel to give the Noble Lord a
notice, and I shall do it now notwithstanding the course
the Noble Lord has pursued ; I carne down prepared
to give to the Noble Lord notice that on going into
Committee—of which I ern as desirous as any one, when
I shall be perfectly re idy to meet the Noble
Lord—it is my intention to take the .sense
of the Committee non those clausLs of the Bill
relative to the W. rating franchise in counties, and the
51. household franchise in- towns, and it is my iritcation
to take the sense Of the Cammittce 'Upon these two •
leading clauses. I have stated to the Noble Lord the course
Ishould take would mainly depend on the course taken by
the Noble Lord. I give the Noble Lord credit for
his ingenuity—(Cheers)—in this long postponement,
thereby placing his Bill and mice at so late a
period of the Session as to cause them
to be defeated by the mere lapse of fine.
Sir, I do not hetitate to say that I entertain are
:eigpicion as to the motive which has induced the N0b1.,,
Lord to t Ike this stela—(l.:l r rs from the Onositioti
htoelies)—and at the tie. time tit, Nol,I, Lord. in
takingthiseoutst, of th, s
to which he subjeets me, by endeavouring to compel
me t 3 press forward the second reading of my Bill at a
time when the Noble Lord would inform the House
most plausibly that he has had the second reading of his
Bi.l sanctioned by a small majority, and that I.e is
waiting for further information et the earliest period to
be laid before him.—( Hear.) Sir, I see the inge-
nuity of the Noble Lord'e course of proceed-
ing ; arid seeing the ingenuity of that course of
proceeding, and giving the Noble Lord notice
of the opposition which I mean to give to the two le id-
ing principles of his Bill, I wili not, under the sur-
prise which this course takea by the Government hal
caused to me, as it has to my Honourable Friends
around me—l will not bind myself absolutely to arty day
for the discussion on the second reading of my
Bill. This I will do. I will postpone the or-
der from this day to the 24th of March, and
within tea days from the 24th of March, I will
give to the Noble Lord a distinct declaration, whether,
upon full consideration of all the circumstances, it is or
is not my intention on that day to press forward the se-
cond reading of my Bill.—(Loud cheers.)
On the motion of the NOBLE LORD the Order of
the Day for the second reading of the Irish Registration
8.11 was then read, for the purpose of its being post-
poned till the 24th of March.
Lord J. RUSSELL having moved the Order of the
Day for going ieto Committee of Supply,
Mr. HUME begged to move for the return of which
he had given notice, and which he thought the more
important, seeing that it was intended to move for a very
large additional force in the course of the evening. The
Hon. Member then moved for " An Address to her
Majesty, that she will be graciously pleased to direct
that there be laid before this House, copies or extracts
of the Correspondence between the Secretary of State
for the Foreign Department and the Governments of
France, Austria, Prussia, Russie, and Turkey, since
1838, respecting the Paella of Egypt, and ;le interfe-
rence with the province of Syria."