The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-05 00:00:00

observed between the number of Parliamentary
electors in Ireland and other parts of the kingdom.
He would give the comparati,.e, number of inhabitants and
of electers in different counties in England and 'relent!
in the year 1837, fur which he had correct returns. He
found that in Monmouth the population was 185,128, and
the number of the constituency was . In the county
of Carlow the population was 72 391 at the end of the year
1837, and the constituency 1,723. In Bedford, in Eng-
land, the population was 88,424, and the constituency
4,134. In the county Louth the population was 94,203,
and the constituency 989. In Cheshire the population
was 260,462, and the constituency was 12,000. La Ros_
common the population was 244.000, and the constituency
2,061. In Somerset the pupal ition was 327 000, and the
constituency 18,415. In the county Tyrone the popula-
tion was 300,95.3, and the constituency 2 862. And in
the county of Mayo the population was 366 328, and the
constituency 2,057. He wished to state a fact in reference
to the conatituency rf that last county, of which he had
been assured. He had been told, on erodible authority,
that, at the last election there, it appeared that the con-
stituency had completely dwindled down ; and he
had been informed by one gentleman that the
number of electors now on the registry amounted
only to 500 or 600, and by anmher that the
number was stated at between 600 and 700. Yet these
were the constituencies which the Noble Lord and Hon.
Gentlemen opposite would make them believe was swelled
up and vamped up by spurious voters. He did not think
that any attempt to dielini,h such a constituency would be
consonant with or recognised by the British Constitution.
—( Hear, hear.) lie would proceed further with his re-
ta. ns. In the county of Cork the population was 660,564,
and the constituency 37 418. In Yirk,hire, the county
with which he ( Lord Morpeth) was but too proud to be
connected, the population was 891,795, and the consti-
tuency 47.972. He owned that in this state of eircum•
stances—in this relative position of the pepulation and
constituencies of the two couetries, it appeared to him that
it would not be e24.edieat t t raise in say degree the
s andard of the elective tranc'aise as it r xisted in Ireland.
He had already quoted his reasons for believing that a
very considerable reduction of the nominal value of land
would take place in Ireland if they adoped the Poor-law
valuation, and that they would thereby lower the berm
tide amount of property which would entitle to the
franchise under the Reform Act. ( Hear, hear,
hear.) Of course it woull be 'n .pele.ts and
chimer:cal, on the part of Government, to attempt
to fix on any precise sum which should be con-
sidered as an exact equivalent, under the Poor-law
valu tion, for the amount of value prescribed by
tee Act. It appeared to him, however, that where the
Poor-law fix,d the rate on the occupier as a matter of
necessity which must be discharged by himself, and net
by another, that they might take, as the amount of the rate
requisite to give the elective franchise, a net value of five
pounds, that was to say, if they adopted the Poor-law
valuation. He would take as the amount of rite requisite
to give the elector's franchise the rateage of Si. He did
not disguise from himself that in the course of time this
might lead to some increase in the number of those who
eejoyed the elective franchise.—( Hear, heer.) But he
de:i not think it would be any sudden or violent increase ;
he thought it would be a very slow and gradual one,
and that it would be perfectly in propertion to the increase
in the wealth and resources of the country. It would be
ascertained by a fixed and definite mode, and it would be
guarded, as far as any human contrivance or device could
be guarded, against the peas hility of any fraud or polka.
tion. He did not propose to effect any material alteration
in the tenure under which the elective franchise was at
present enjoyed. He knew there were some who were
for fixing the franchise purely upon rateage, without any
reference to tenure, making the right of voting entirely
independent of the period of the interest which the occu-
pier Lad in his house—( Hear, hear) and he knew that one
or two very plausible reasons might be stated in defence
of that principle. But he (Lord Morpeth) thought it
would be a novel principle in a constitutional point of
view. The only antecedent which they had of it was the
50/. tenant-at-will clause in England ; and as far as the
practical working of that been developed, it did tot fill him
with any irresistible wish to extend the same innovation,
upon a much more enlarged sc he, to the entire population
of Ireland. It was true that this innovation would
make the occupier, as to his right of voting, en-
tirely independent of his landlord. They now frequently
heard, whether with justice or not, of the mode iu which
landlords dealt with their tenants who did not coincide
with them in their political opinions. He thought that to
give the right of voting, when there was no right of pes- •
session, would expose a far larger and more helpless class
to a much more real dependence on their landlords, and to
risks of a much more severe retaliation; and, much as he
desired the extension of the elective franchise. he owned
that he set a higher value upon the harmony and good will
of the several classes of society. While, therefore, he
would discountenance and do what in him lay to repress
all undue aggressions of one class upon another, he would
not originate any proposition which would have the efftet
of heightening and inflaming those differences. He pro-
posed, therefore, to annex the franchise to the possession
of a tenement rated at the net value of 5/. He had now
brought the main provisions of this Bili before the House.
It appeared to him that the fixing of the franchise upon
the Poor.law valuation would go f,r to dispose of the
necessity fur the Zwo other alterations. They would then
have a fixed and ascertained basis liable to no fraud, lead.
ins to no disputes, and susceptible of no contrvietion ;
and this, he owned, was in Iris mind the great inherent su-
periority which the rateage code that lie ( Lord Nlorpeth)
had proposed had over that which had been proposed by
the Noble Lord opposite. As a complete system of re-
giatration, the Nuele Lord's might appeur more complete
in all its parts, especially if his wish were to draw the
voter into the meshes of a tangled and intricate machinery.
—( H:ar, hear.) With an unsettled and disputed fran.
chaise, it would still caray with it the seeds of cadleas con-
The!, and a continued array of antagonist passions and
parties, whit h would only be overcome by that process for
which be (Lord Morpeth) thought the gill was admirably
calculated—that of choking and smothering the elective
franchise altogether. The system which he ( L ird )lor-
path) tendered to the preference of the House put an end
almost at once to every possible litigated and controverted
point to which it applied ; and, as at once distinctly ascer-
tained and permanently recorded, supplied in itself a coun-
tervailing and counteracting check against the introduc-
tion of any abuse, and came down to them recommended
by the concurrent suffrages of the best authorities.
That the measure which he had then stated would
meet with the universal acquiescence of the House,
he was not sanguine enough to anticipate ; but
he could not divest himself of the hope that what he then
proposed, the more it should be considered end the more
it should be canvassed would recommend itself to the de-
liberate acquiescence of the most rational men of all '
parties, and to the general acquiescence of the country ;
and in this hope and in this faith he would " move for
leave to bring in a Bill to amend the law relating to the
qualification and registration of Parliamentary voters in
Ireland."

The SPEAKER having pat the question,
Lord STANLEY then rose, and said that under every
circumstance he should have followed the example that
had been set him by the Noble Lord who had just sat
down, and the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies,
and upon the motion of the Noble Lord as it originally
stead for leave to introduce a Will to amend the law with
regard to the registration of Parliamentary voters in Ire-
land, or, as it had been altered within the last forty-eight
hours, for the amendment of the law of franchise as w 11
as of registration, have abstained from offering any oppo-
sition to its being introduced, or any lengthened observa-
tion on the contents of the Bill. But, said the Noble
Lord, if I should have done so under any circumstances,
more especially am I called upon most cautiously to
i,h,tain from observation, when the Noble Lord by way
of a postscript—an indispensible postscript indeed, but a
postscript only—to the great and pressing subject of regis-
tration, introduced by way of a clause and appendage to
the subject no provision for the purpose of removing
doubts as to the existine qualification—no attempt at de-
fining the present franchise in Ireland, bat a new Reform
Bill, founded upon principles unknown in Ireland—
founded upon principles unheard of in England —founded
upon principles of which no human being would have
dreamt wit h regard to Sco:lmd.—( Hear, hear ) Why,
Sir, to imagine the Noole Lord can append this species
of postscript to a Registration Bill, and that it shall not
have the effect, whatever the Noble Lord's intention may
be, of rendering the passing of his registration measure,
and the remedy of those abuses, which, I am happy to
floc!, he acknowledges almost to the full extent—impossible,
at all events, during the present Sess:oa—l cannot for a
single moment doubt. I ask whether it is possible the
House can agree to this measure, without having any notice
beforehand of the data upon which it is founded, without
having any information furnished to the lieuse—
more than that, seithout information posse sod by the
Noble Lord himself, on rihieh to found any possible cri-
terion by which, not to judge of, but to guess at tee result
t and the effect of the measure he is about to propose.—
( Cries of " hear, hear, hear ") Upon what is it that the
Noble Lord proposes to found his alteration of the whole
system of the franchise as it now stands itt Ireland ? Upon
what is it that he proposes to found the deviation and de-
partitre from ei,efy ptineiple which the law or England and
the law of Scotland, with regard to Parliamentary elec-
tion, have hitherto been considered to be settled ? Why
upon the information of two gentlemen, friends, as he
states, of the Hen. and Learned Attorney. General, who
have been dent ptieately by the Noble Lord to ten of the
Poor-law unions in Ircl Ind, and who bring hack their re-
turns from those Poor-law unions, which the Noble Lord
reads to us, as to part, from the menuscript he has re-
eeieede.ewhich the Noble Lord has not informed us he pro-
poses to lay on the tahle of this House for our guidance, hut
on which he considers himself justified to call upon Parlia-
ment to accede to this enormous alteration of the fran-
chise. It is impossible to follow the Ncble Lord when
he reads the statements of these gentleme::, as they have
deriiied this from the Poor-law Commissioners, or rath-r
from the various guerdians of the ten unions, and to ascer-
tain upon what principle it is that this valuation on which
he proposes to rest the whole fabric of his measure has
been founded. But from what I have been able to collect
froth the Noble Lord's reading, I really hrelly know whe-
ther t aril to believe the evidence of my senses, or
whether I em not under some strange misconception of
the Noble Lord's intention when he tells us that these
' ValtlatiCin9 have been founded, as he considers, upon the
net value of the property according to the amount of rent
at Which a fair and just-dealing landlord might be cxpec;ed
tti it to the tenant; and yet the Noble Lord
tells us the vaitmtlons so founded, giving to the
wiv-Ac of the property the net value, the rent
in the market, independent of any deductions of
bio 6/., or 10/., are found to be fifty and a hundred
per cent. too high for persons who actually at this
moment are registered as electors, having a lo u
beneficials
interest. —( Hear, bear.) The Noble Lord tells
hto ha that in
the ease of Balruddery ho found 200 101. electors had,
yi
in some shape or other, a beneficial interest oflol.a year.
The Noble Lord also tells us that of these 200 electors he
finds no less than 50 the whole value of whose property in
the market is no more than 10/. a y ear,if they paid trot
finds
one shilling rent for this property. He also. no. less
than 17 of whom thew vAlagoro tlechitre that to wool@