The Sun.
London, England, 1823-04-30 00:00:00

mivlrr any pritatiOnsfOr the sake of this war. Now he could
rot pretend to know how it was with the lion. Member's con-
stititents ; but as to his own he was able to assure the House
that they were willing to incur no such privations fmany:stich
thing.'(Bear, hear !)---As far its he knew, the feeling of the
country was against war.—(fleari)--ltot if the honour of the
‘,..uiltry should requite it, he had no in:Atation in saying that
tviitonstituents, and he believed the country at large, would
;ti heart andband with the Governme,nt in proinotion of it..—
.( U. ar hear!)---Ile rejoiced most sincerely that Minister' had-
done what they had done, 118 tar as.regarded the result. to.this
country of their negociation. Whatever opposition he might
feel it his duty to make to many of their measures; he should
not have acted honestly if he hal not offered them thank's
for their conduct on the present occasion.—(liear, hear, hear'!)
should " give his hearty concurrence and'approbation,to

Vie atnetulmeni:
Mr. 1101t110IISE explained, The observation 'he had'
made, which had been ended to by the lion. Member for
Cumberland, was, that the majority of his' constituents
have been wall* to undergo anrprivationa,, in consetpignce
-4Af "a war resulting from a strong protest on the part of the Duke
of Wellington at Verona. But he had qualihed this declare.
tinn by saying, tiratit must be distinetly,ttoderstood that the.
Viar must be undertaken in behalf of the liberties of Europe

against the Kings of Europe.
Mr. ROBERTSON said, that he was anxitins for the peace
of this country ;. hat not for one of so dubious a-character as
Vila. He regretted to find, that after eo much had been sacri-
ficed to conciliatieg our great Alliesl by the late lamented Mar-
quis of Londonderry, we had so little influence with them.
Had we secured to our:wives, as we could, those great advan-
tages tnotieNavy and our Commerce, which bad been once in
'wee power, we shottld not have seen other Powers giving a
preference to the sugars' of threign Colonies, and laying the
.commerce of this country under burdens. it we hail shewn
eeirselves adverse, he Was sure France would not have offered
violence to the Constitution of Spain. The Unice of Welling..
On, as a British soldier, was unable to cope with the Despots
of the Continent, who were trained up in the art of concealing
ley ebeir speech the real sentiments of their hearts. 'When
in Paris-Ins- Grace addressed himself' to the King of Fiance,
it was seen how much that Gervernment waintaggered by die
Order for recalling the delivery of the note sent to
lie should have gone on to• remind the French Monarch
that ,400,000 of his people under .Bonaparte had found their
graves in Spain. He should have reminded him of the part
acted by this country,- on the return of Buonaparte troM Elba,
es a proof of our good will e. at the same time telling him that
theinterests of England, of France, and ot Spain, all forbade
the military occupation of the latter country. Had this course
ebeen taken we Should have had a permanent peace, so formid-
able, he was• persitaded, was. this country. ih the eyes of the
Continent. Ifs thought Majesty's Ministers were much
deceived in' their estimate of, the expellee of our participation
in this war: It was not a question of one army., opposed to
another but'of a people struggling for their liberty.—(llear !)
Whenever we might go to war, we ought 'not to send a soldier
to the Continent, or to meddle with the Continent at all i we
might, without incurring any additional ex pence, fit out a fleet
which would sweep any enemy of ours from off the face of
the seas. This would cost not more than two millions and, au
half, which might be taken out of our five millions of sinipine,
and would therefore not prove any additional expellee. Uniler
this plan of operations, the country would be little affected by
a war. But if the French should occupy Spain, and we be, in
consequence, shut out from it, we should not have a tingle
friend an the Continent. He &mid therefore, dissenting from
the course taken by Ministate give his-Support to the orileinat
motion.
Mr. J. WI'LLIAMS-(of Lincoln) eakeidered the question
ne reduced to a smart' Compass. As to the attack made on
Spain by France, there was not, in that House, one ditaientient
voice. In fact, a condemnation of that conduct war's parr of
the spirit of our Constitution ; aqd this being the case,. a couree
of remonstrance equal in Strength to the injustice of die Attack,
ought to have been observed by Ministers. lie deniedaliat the
question was whether the wereefbr peace or war ; but Whether
war had been prevented by. the.polfey of the Right lion. Gentle-
man opposite. The present feverish state of tranquillity could
not be called peace. It was not worth, half a- yeer'e purchase.
The question was Upon the langtrage, Used by .Nlinistere. All
that was b nown in that Haase was that. war had begun, and that
there wait no knowing where it would stop. it might lie proper
for the Muse to look at the manner in whisk our offers
of mediation were received by the two contending parties.—
Spain, the injured' party, chewed an anxiety• for our good
office* and our good opinion; but the French alinieter gave
a contemptuous rejection to them,. though they recommend-
ed us to chew our good' °Mee% at Madrid. The French
said that " they mild. not discuss upon theoriel„ nor orbi-
t-tate upon principles." Upon this hint, the Duke of Wel.
lington sent, by Lord 'Fitzroy Somerset, what waA calleti a.
Memorandum, hut which he (Mr. Williams)
,called a Letter
ltlisaive; and what was remarkable enough, instead of read•
lug a lecture of forbearance to the aggressor, we read one on
moderation •to those who were about toesuifer. This was
giving a species of authoritative advice. The. Deke said he
thought every good Spaniard must desire to see some alter
ration in the Constitution; but the Right lion., Gentleman
('Mh. Canning) had, himself declared, that atiy eiteration. ought
not even to be thought of under the menace of a tbreign
Fewer, His Grace had said: in this Memorandum, that there
was 31A reason for suspecting that the King of Spain would
abuse his power ; but he (Mr. Williams) begged to ask whether
any one could have the least confidence it him.--(Hear, hear I)
Bet the language of the Ministers was singularly mild when they
addressed the aggressors. The Duke of Wellington had express:
ed his approval of the army of observation on the frontiers of
Spain and France, and had added, that st he thought there was.
no person who must not approve Of it." His Grace then went
en to admit that even interference might be justifitible. in a
tertain case which he had not clearly defined, though define-
don here was absolutely necessary. There Ware one and only
one other view which he would, take at' the papers before the
House. From first to last, no censure had been applied by
:Ministers to the invading parties. There was nu,dlrtsct re-
menstrance speaking the truth boldly, and giving thitinfamous
transaction its proper name. He knew that the conduct of
the French Government was spoken of with severity in the
dispatches to our Ministers abroad ; 'but he defied. the Right
Honourable Oentlemate opposite to eliew, in any. one of the
'papers, one expression of dignified, proper, and adegtiate cen-
sure 4m the French Government addressed to that Government.
Indeed Ministers, even after they had been apprized of the
firm determination of France tteinvaele Spain, they had made
the same professions of good will towards the tench Govern-
ment. For these reasons, he thought the gotinteY had a right
to complain. He thought the opinions of this country had not
been properly and forcibly expressed in our Mantle:eine ;
and, with regard to the consequences of this war, who could
now answer for the various contingencies which might arise ?
If France succeeded in her attack upon Spain, who could say
that the attack would terminate there ? It was clear that we
were not secure of peace, for even the Amendment proposed by
die ifonourable Member for Yorkshire looked to a possible case
of war, by pledging the House to support the honour and dig-
nity of the country, should that support be necessary. Had
the ihike of Wellington, after having tried remonstrance, said
to the French Government ; " You may poseiblyl by engaging
in. this war, have England fur your enemy, and it is poseible
that I may again have to assist in the defence of Spain against
die attacks of a French army," lie in his conscience believed
that the name of leingland would have produced the desired
effect on the wavering Councils of Prelim-4110er, from the
concludedby saying he should vote in. &voile
of the originnl mother'.
The Cliet NC ELI.OR of. the EXCHEQUER said, that
when the Honourable and !Awned Member for Knaresborough
(cUr J. Meekintosh), in an earlier stage of the question now bee
fie the Iltriee bad said that Ministers were under a serious
and awful, rtssponsibility, he had rightly described their
situation. When they recollected the eufferings endured,
and the sacrifices made by the people during the last war,
thq could not even contemplate the renewal of such a
war with Out feeling tilo.deepest anxiety. His Majesty's Mi.
sorters were sensible that a renewal of war would be upon
the must important principles, that it would area cone
eideratioue the most valuable and dear to this' country
That it would also affect a country to which we were hound
by the most solemn ties of friendship and treaty ; in de-
fence of which country we bad expended our most valuable
treasure, end had, shed our best blood. Well did Ministers
+know that these considerations imposed upon themselves it
weighty responsibility. They knew that the question raised
by these considerations would warm the feelinge tied engage
the sympathies of that House, as well as those of the country;
and that it would not be difficult for there to excite the gene-
roux enthusiasm of the people, and carry the country, at once
into war. But for this very reason they had considered it their
bounden duty toad with caution. Many circumstances would
contribute to render war highly detrimental to us ; and he here
begged in the outside of his argument, to deny that the question
of " Peace or war" was unworthy of consideration in looking
At the question before the House. He, on the contrary, main-
tinned that 0 consideration of this. question was inseparable
frotn. tbett which was before the Hotiee.—(Cheersa—There
*le abundant reasons to lead to s (=elusion that it was
their paramount duty to maintain for Europe, if possible,
but et all events for this country, the continuance of peace.—
Whatever might be their sympathy for Spain, they must not
forget that if they had been called upon to take a part in the
war, they must have decided for one of two parties in that
tountry. The lion. Member for Westminster, in the course of
his speech last night, had denied that Spain was so divided as
'she kid been rupreset?ted to be ; and had said that the inteili-
ent..wi;re far the Constitution, and that only the priests and
the *Goma persons were against it. lie (the Chancellor)

theught. ie was in this circumstance that theeniefortnne, con,
sisted.: Ile :was sorry for the ignorance of the people. He
was sorry that they did not think a free Constitution was of
advantage to Spain, and indeed to every cinintry.---(Cheers.)—,
Ifs protested that no part of the conduct of Ministers had been
dictated by an indifference to the extension of that liberty
which we enjoyed oureelves tebut then he contended that ,we
fought not to engage id tte civil wet of a foreign country. • No
policy, could be more objectionable than that of taking upon
eourselvies to decide between contending - parties. Ile was
'aware that war was particularly to be lamented in the present
state of Europe. He was, by no means, pelectly'satiefied
the appearance of affairs on the Continent. There existed a
state of things froin which it was the interest of this country to
keep' loof. • Contests were not no*: carried on as they, were
formerly. They were not for :t peovince, or, any such compa-
ratively trifling consideration. They' were between revolution
on the one hand, anti power on the other. He warmly wished
success to the cause of liberty.—(Cheers from the Opposition. )
—He was against our engaging against liberty; but he was
;Also unfavourable to our supporting revolution against exist- •
ing establishments. He believed he might take it as generally
admitted, that peace was the wisest policy for us. Indeed it
was impossible fbr any man of sense and feeling nett to be
„convinced that, after so sanguinary and protracted u war as
-.the last, the country, stood in need of repose. War, there-
fore, should not be' decided upon without an imperious and
Averrangneceetity. The Hon. Member (Mr. Robertson) had
held out, that the war, if we were to engage in it, would he a
short one, and' said that we could carry it on at a small' ex.
pence. But he world appeal' to every one who heard him,
when` the flame of war was Once kindled who could say when it
wouldbe extinelnisted.—(Cheers from the Ministerial Benches.)
Ministers hail been accused of deluding the country ; but had
they phingedainto war, and ptofnieed the people that it would
be a short and economical war, and might be carried on by
means of our, navy only, theymight indeed be open to the
charge of deluding the countrye. end if, as could not be denied,
there was somethitig peCulter in the present situation of Europe
generally, and of this country in particular, the circumstance cre-
ated an irresistible ergietnenr our' avoiding that fatal extremi-
ty. It was impossible to leolvat our condition, without refer-
ence to the question of " peace orwan" 14 peace were conceded
to he our policy, the question for' the House to decbte was,
whether Ministers had taken the best course to, prevent the
war between France and Spain, and particularly if that war
proved unavoidable, whether that course had beep folloWed
up to prevent our being affected by that war. Ministers by
the eiteeent motion, however, were called to account because
they had not prevented two countries going to war. It was
principally objeeted against them, that their tone had not been
sufficiently " high and dignified." But these were terms which
necessarily induced much difference of opinion among Hon.
Members. Some might think dignified remonstrance would
be conveyed in the declamation of the Noble Member for
Nev. Sarum (Lord Folkeston), others might prefer the keen
anti bitter sarcasm of the Honourable and Learned Member for
Winchelseu (Mn Brougham), and others again would adopt
the epigrammatic and classical language of the Hon: mover.—
It wale easy to use vituperative language; but, although he
would never Wish that any Member of the English House of
Commons should be restrained in the expression of his senti-
ments upon. Foreigh Governments, or of Foreign Sovereigns
(Whether in peace with us or not), although he would wish the
expression of those sentiments to find no sort of restraint but in
their own notions of propriety—( H ear, hear, from the Ministe-
riatßencheig—he must be permitted to observe that this free-
dom of language could not be introduced into the intercourse
between different Governments. Besides, when Honourable
Members spoke in that House with warmth, they wished to
inspire othel. Meetibers with equal warmth ; but a system of
teis desciiption could never be applied ,to diplomacy. Such a,
system would neither maintain our honour nor preserve our
peace. We might feel a desire to reprobate the conduct of
those with- wham we maintained diplomatic intercourse ; but
we should remember that they had feelings as well as our-
, selves, ' and a considerable degree of national pride. When
irritating language began, there was an end of all effective cor-
respondence. Vi teen our object was to influence, what course
was the nlost tti attain it then that of moderate and ra-
tional persuasion The lion. Member for Weenninster had
said that the Allied Sovereigns were leagued against all revo-
hitionee
Mr. HOBHOUSE said it was the word " freedom" which
he had used.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he had
not the least wish to quarrel with the explanation of the Hon.
Member. He had said that the Allied Sovereigns were leagued
against " freedom." lie it so. Ile (the Chancellor) did not
advocate their conduct. What he contended was simply this---
If we were to have any intercourse with them, we must apply
our reasoning so as to produce, if possible, an effect upon
their minds. But this was never to he done by invective. it
was better and wiser to chew them the danger to which their
conduct would expose their own institutions and their power.—
lie was convinced that it was perfectly useless to resist the pro.
webs of liberal principles. lie believed that in consequence
of the increasing. intelligence of the people, those principles
would make their way in spite of every opposition, and he
rejoiced at It.—(Cheers.)—Let the House leok at the situation
in which we stood with respect to the Allied Sovereigns. They
had formerly been united with our great enemy against us.—
(11 ear, hear, from the Opposition.)—He could assure Ilon.
Gentlemen, be and they had no difference of opinion on that
subject. lie was now merely proceeding. to state our own
situation.—(Hear, hear !)—They at last joined us; and we
hailed their alliance against France, because it was a benefit
to Europe, anti especially to ourselves. An alliance was
formed ; because, after so long and extraordinary a war, it
was Impossible to suppose, that all the elements of it
would become tranquil at once. Our relations with those
Sovereigns were of a very peculiar neture ; and he could
not but think it unwise to say, that we ought to break
up the alliance with them; if our dbject was to preserve
peace. The language we had held towards them wae, un-
doebtedly that of persuasion rather than menace. We showed
them the dangers to which they would expose themselves, and
Ministers considered this as the most judicious, and likely to
be the most effective course in treating upon this su4iect with
them. But he hoped it would be distinctly understood that he
did, not admit we had made no remonstrance to them, or bad
suffered them to believe that their principles on penning the
allience were the same as our own. If the house would
look at the paper, the first of the second series of those be-
fore the House, they would find that it contained an argu-
ment--a reasonable argument, to shew the unjust principles
by which they were actuated in the year 1820, It added,
that our sole object in entering into the alliance, was the
preservatiOn of territorial possession, and that we disclaimed
interference with the internal affairs of other nations.—(Hear,
hear, hear I)—This document was the more important, be-
cause it had been said that the Noble Author of it was
leagued with Foreign Despots against the liberties of Europe.
—He scarcely dare trust himself to speak of that Noble and
departed person but he hoped he might venture to, do so
without losing sight of the question to which he hat to ad-
dress himself. lie had been strongly attached to that Noble
Lord; he knew the sterling nature of his mind--(Cheers)---and
appeccieted the important services he had rendered die country.
—Never had man been more publicly misrepresented than that
illustrious Nobleman. He undertook the management of our
foreign affairs under the most unparalleled circumstances of"
difficulty, and conducted them with an equanimity and decision
of temper peculiar to himself.—(Cheers.)—The House knew
how he checked all angry feelings, and conquered the strong-
est personal prejudices against him.—(Cheers from all parts
of the liouse.)— It was no easy task for him to go to.Coe-
gfeeti and say—" this is the exact state of things which we
desire id see in Europe." No fair opinion could be formed'of
him unless they looked at the peculiar situation in which he
was placed. The two sentences, however, to which he had
referred were, of themselves, a -complete and an unequivocal
denial me the part of England of any desire to attack the liber-
' ties of mankind. And it was to be remarked :that this was a
paper not intended, in the first instance, for publication. It was
a 'secret document, addressed to the Foreign Powers in order to
produce an effect upon them, and It contained the sentiments
of the Noble Author as well as these of the English Govern-
'dent. He trusted the House would pardon him for having for
a Moment gone aside from the question.—(Hear, hear !)—There
were ac scions which must excuse, thought they might not jus-
tify, such digressions. In this :document, then, he was en-
titled to say; that there appeared a manly anti vigorous protest
against the interference of the Allied Sovereigns. • There was
another and a most important paper to the sante effect, though
. it wits not in die 'papers immediately before the House. He
called upon the' House to remember the principles laid down in
the answer of the late Marquis of Londonderry to the Circular
issued by the Allied Sovereigns after the conferences of Trop-
pau, in 1821. It had been said by the Hon. Member for
Knaresborough, that the paper he alluded to conveyed the bit-
terest sarcasm upon the conduct of the Alliance. He thought
that description went toe) far; but it was too much now to
come forward and say that it contained no protest against the
interference in the internal concerns of independent States.—
Therefore, when the Duke of Wellington referred to that pro»
test, no one was entitled to say that they had kept principles
out of' sight, and contented themselves with making represene
Wiens of interest, and a mere mild deprecation of attack
upon Spain. Ilut one main object on which they had a right
to rely, am! one much more important than any words they could
have used, was the effect to be expected from the separation of
sentiments on so momentous a question among the Allied
Powers. I fany one thing could more radically operate upon their
minds titan another, to prevent them front engaging in the War,
it would be their reluctance to show to the world that such differ•
ence existed. It would not be necessary for him to go through
the various details of criticism, to which chnicnt parts of these

tiegoefatinns had' been subjected:, The Honourable Member
who moved the Address said, that the Government would have
succeeded at Verona, if, they hati taken his course. Now the
lion. illoinher: for 'Westminster told theist that Ministers did
succeed .at Verona. He wee there, and heard the opinions of
all classes expressed, and the cOmplaints of certain Gentleinen
who lied come tdl. the Way, from the Greats_Wall of China into
the luxurious climate of Italy, for nulling. And the lion..
Member fer Westminstra. was right;—they did succeed at Ve-
rona.—(llear !)-,=They succeeded as persnading the Allied So-
vereigns not to Make the quarrel ilk European Cause, belt to
11sase'iretitteely araquestien betweea l'itinee and Spain. This
was a very important object to gain ; auld how were they to ob-
tain it ? By reisionstranceor violence ? He denied. that they had
used no toneef rettionstrimce in the negociations.,,They put the
queetiori upon expediency and uvoleprinciple ; but they also en-
deavoured to convince the other powers that it was not to their
interest to take part in the interference. And'whin the seat of
negociation had been removetato Paris by those means, they
flattered themselves that the Name course US had been succees-
f u at Verona would have succeeded elsewhere. But it seemed
they:had cothibitted a great eraor, When the 'found they could
not :succeed altogether in averting the interference with Spain,
in not retiring from the negociations; and declaring they would
have nothing more to do with them; He admitted it to be a
very natural question to put,.whether they shoUld pirsue that
course, or whether by continuing in conference they might not
attempt to reconcile the two parties, between whom the quesa
tion had resolved itself. If there were a chance of doing so by
their good offices or their mediation—call it what they would—
it was their bounden duty to make the effort. It was a duty
they owed to this country, as well as to the independence of
Spain, and to .the interests of France also. For he would
contend that they were bound not to overlook the fair inte-
rests of France. It was a greet object for us to maintain
a Constitutional Monarchy in that country. Ile lied nothing
to do with the internal policy of such a Government,
nor with any cinestions between it and the people of France,,
which were confined within its territory. The internal
acts of that Government might be what they had been
described in that House, and they could not perhaps be
vindicated. But to maintain something like a free and Con-
stitutional GovernMent in France, with the present reign-
ing family at its head •if practicable, was no little object of
interest to this country. Ile did not Mean to say that the
Bourbon family had not always been jealous of this country
and opposed to it. They bad been, and very probably would
be again. Yet that was not a reason why they should suffer a
country in the situation and circumstances of France to remain
in a constant state of internal civil dissentions .to the danger
and disturbance of surrounding states. With regard to the
recommendations which they had thought it right to make to
the Spanish Government on the subject of the Constitution,
the House were bound to keep in view the true circumstances.
of that part of the case. When this Government was asked by
Spain for its interference, they were bound to use their good
'offices, anti how were they to proceed but by using what the
Spanish Government called the pen of conciliation. France
was also desirous that our good offices might be exercised suc-
cessfully to prevent war from breaking out. lie believed,
whatever might be said to the contrary, that the French Mi-
nisters were not, so desirous of war as they had been repre-
sented. But this Government were reproached with having
advised Spain to make alterations in her Institutions under
the menaces ' which France had held out. And he was
ready to admit, that if they had not been asked by Spain to
give her advice and assistance, they should have had no
right to offer any such recommendation. But when the two
powers stood committed as they did,' upon principles the most
opposite that could possibly be conceived, it was indispensable
that some concession should be made on both sides. lf, the
fore, the first step had been taken by Spain, we should have
had grounds for calling upon France to follow the example
and abandon some of the points to which Spain objected.
Where then was the wrong of her to give way in
some thing for the accomplishment of these pacific intentions.
And ifa Spain could have been induced to accede to the pro. i
posals made to her, it did not appear to him that she would
have been making any sacrifice of her dignity, or submit-
ting to the least violation of her honour and independence.
Because, be it remembered, they had never asked Spain to
make any, the slightest concession, upon .the principles laid
down by France. On the contrary, they had told the French
Government that if they recommended any alterations to
Spain, they would never suffer her to acquiesce in that prioa
ciple laid down in the King of France's Speech, which
made all free Constitutions so much waste paper unless comieg
from the, mouth of a Sovereign. A mostmonstrous proposition
it wee--((%heers)—and certainly such a one as had been may
said to strike at the root of the British Constitution. It was
then charged upon them as a fault, that they had suggested a
different meaning and construction to this objectionable pas-
sageof the Speech. Now, if it were proper for them to inter-
fere with the object of conciliation at all, it was certainly pro-
per that they should adopt such means of conciliating those to
whom such doctrines were supposed to be addressed. It was
next said that this Government had been grossly deceived by
thou) with whom they had been negociating in these aflairs.—
He confessed that they had been somewhat surprised at the con.
duct of the French Government.—( Hear !)--They were surprieed
because the decisions of the French Government were repeatedly
altered ; and he believed that that Government did change its
intentions front clay to day: --(Hear !)—They could not, there-
fore, he prepared for such changes of opinion as they occurred,
and thus their endeavours and wishes were in some, measure
frustrated. Upon the whole view of the case, convinced as be
wax, that neutrality from the first was the right and honourable
line of conduct for them to pursue—convinced, as he was, that
no other course of policy would have produced any other effect;
and thoroughly convinced, as he was, that such was the feeling
of the people of this country, he was sure the !louse would
reject the motion, and not consign the Government to its cen-
sure, because, after a long and anxious endeavour to discharge
their duty by upholding the honour and dignity of the country,
and to maintain the peace of the world, they had unavoidably
failed in securinja the latter object. —(Cheers.)
Sir J. MACh.INTOSII said, that he ruse under tile appre.
!tension of not having bodily strength to submit to the louse
the observations which pressed upon him, as relating to this
momentous question. Ile therefore looked for more of the In.
dulgence of the House titan usual, although he had at all times
reason to thank them for a very large share. Though he did
not dispatches which had been laid before the
House,
which had been made of them, able
ouasger,e
nore in
in thetile dispatches
as it was, he could not refrain from congratulating the house
of Commons upon that concurrence of opinion which pervaded
all sides and all parties, in reprobation of the atrocious and
unprincipled aggression of France ttpon the unoffentling peo-
ple of Spain..—Wheers.)—The Honourable and Learned Gen-
tleman then eulogized the sentiments expressed by the Mem-
hers for Yorkshire, London, and Brauiber, as regarding the
conduct of France, and strongly condemned the use of feeble
language and measured terms when men had to speak of acts
like those upon which the House had been 'called on to de-
liberate. It was to the degradation of this country, that
stronger language had not been used to the Allied Sovereigns,
in remonstrating against the unprincipled acts which had been
meditated, and were now attempted to be carried into execu-
tion. Ile was shocked to -see the document, which bore a
name so enlightened as that of the Right Honourable Gentle-
man, speaking of an atrocious violation of the independence of
nations, as .‘assumption of unnecessary responsibility."--
It was the same as to declare that picking a pocket was a
slight error of judgment, and that -to comma murder in the
present state of the laws or England, was to assume an unplea-
sant. aesponsibility.—(A laugh.)—This language might do for
the drawing-rooms of Vienna, but it- was not fitting for the
ears of the plain rustic Esquires, and the homely Burgesses,
who represented the people in that House.—(A
hoped they would contrive to retain that plainness and home-
liness, together with the indignation-which those feelings anti
manners would imply, at such language as .Ministers hail
thought proper to use upon .such an occasion. The real question
now for the House to consider, as it had been w 11 put by, the
and Learned Member for Lincoln, was t o, what was to
be done by the country now, but what Ministers ought to have
done in February anti March. The pretended suppoiters of
peace had used so many fallacious arguments in the course of
their speeches, that, as die real friends of peace, be thought
it necessary to expose their weakness and contradiction:—
The first said they would not assist Spain because she was
divided ; and then, to support *some other views of tile ques-
tion, they maintained that our assistance was unnecessary,
because Spain could repel the aggression herself; and that
the success of France was impossible. Ilow this was to be
reconciled, be would leave it for them to expbtin. It was said
also that we were never to interfere where there was a divided
country. He should like to know in what part of our history
this doctrine was to be found ? Was it in the interference
of Elizabeth in the war in Flanders ? The next objection
was, that our intrrfererice would melee the war popular in
France. 0 ! wise anti magnanimous Charles the Second !
why did he go to war in the Netherlands to make the war po-
pular 'in eSpain ? Why did Godolphin and Marlborough de-
feat the ninnies and wound and humble the *e of 1 rance,
and yet be so short-sighted as not to see that they were making
the war popular ? Those who supported the conduct of Go-
vernment to the course they had taken, argued the question as.
if there was no course between the feeble and degrading aans
antage which had been Used, and that of violence and a decla-
ration of war. The Hight lion. Cheneollor of the Exchequer
had said that the Note of the late Marquis of Londonderry, in
answer to the circular of the Allies, contained a strong protest,
and that to refer to that was sufficient. In this part of the
question there was something quite ludicrous ; for, in propor-
tion
The first conintonication to
as the necessity for firmness increased, and the objectum-
able nets became stronger
our language grew weak anti feeble.
the Alliee was a dissuasive ikom

• ,
St projected ad, and that he would allow was wen- rea-
soned, and pretty strongly expressed.. But when these acts
came to be carried into effect, our only remonstrance was
an obscure allusion to the former document. But io point of
Fi.,,,t,,e trtArs
A, pnrioetscs. treated with neglect and insult.
excep-
don, but- upon their own principle. Yet after this we were to
occupiedtilad'len Italy, it was not upon our
ay one word, either in remonstrance,' or as a ileviaration of
iittend a Congress' of ,he same Sovereigns at Verona, andnot
principles. It was said that this Government did not know the
object of the Congress of Verona to be the discussion of the
attair*.tatfinain. , T, @n oor negoeintor appOired there under,
an affrOnt, tn not having- been informed of the object, and he,"
too, one of the most illustrious characters of the age. Yet,
even after this, offended national pride was not enough to rouse
therai front their insensibility. A considerable time ago he put
tie that the negoeiadons would he conducted upon
*question tobis Rightllonimrable Friend, in width be ex-
pressed abothe basis of strict national independence, the maintenance of
the balance of power, the faith of treaties, and with an adher-
ence to the practice of the' best simes.of our history. It now
appeared that' to abstain, from violating; the independence of
nations was all that had been done, and that the balance of
power had never' been mentioned or thought of. lie could. not
argue with any one who would say that the occupation of Spain
IV France would not destroy the Wants: of power in Europe.
were under one Governinentait could, non,affect the interests
With those ittblime politicians, who said, thataif All Europe
of this country, he held nothing ii? common. Ilis old habits
of' thinking retained him 'far' within- That point of 'refined phi-
losophy. The Honourable' Member for Corte Castle had
adopted this proposition, and he could not help admiring
the youthful ardour and vigour with which he embraced
every paradox which fell into his hands. Notwithstanding
the Philosophers of Corte Castle, however; :he contended• that
the balance of power was necessary to be preserved, anti that
it would be most effectually destroyed if France obtained
possession of Spain. When he asked his questions of the Right
Hon. Gentleman, he had said that he expressed, his hope that
the conduct of this country would be similar to that followed
in the best times of the country. To' see whether this was the,
case let them look to the great alliance founded in time of
King William, and afterwards supported by the great Statesmen
and Generals who succeeded him. 17p to the time of the acces-
sion of the Bourbons to the Throne of Spain, France had been
the natural ally and protector of the kingdom of Portugal. The
rival Houses of Bourbon" and Austria were her protectors,
and the Howse of Braganza reigned in peaceful security.
—But as soon as the power of France became ascendant in
Spain, she attacked Portugal to induce ' her to declare
war against England ; and that on the acknowledged pretext
that her situation in Europe demanded it. This was the first
time, he believed, that ever a geographical cause of war was
openly put forth. Three times was Porte gal attacked in this
manner, and three times she resisted with an heroic fidelity
perhaps not to be equalled, certainly never to be surpassed, in
the annals of Europe. Now what was our conduct to our
faithfal ally, when the time of her peril was come ? Was there
any real assurance of her safety in the papers before the
House ? He denied it, ;and he could demonstrete that there
was none. In this part of their negociations,
M M. De Chateau-
briand, and I. De Villele had shown considerable address.—
The whole of their assurances with regard to Portugal only'
referred to the time while the Army of Observation remained
upon the frontier. The moment the army entered Spain, those
assurances'held no longer. We had therefore done absolutely
nothing for that friendly power which had been three times
destroyed, or been upon the brink of destruction on our ac-
count. Thus it was in the land of superstition and ignor-
ance, that honour and fidelity were to be found ; and in the
country of reason and liberty—falsehoodand dishonour. The
moment France possessed the same power over the French
Province of Spain, that 'moment would the sanie scene
-be acted over again. Therefore, the only means which
they had of preventing it, and of discharging the heavy debt
vihich they owed to their ancient and most faithful ally was
resistance to the attack upon Spain, The Hon. and beamed
Member then -alluded to 'a confidential letter of Lord North's
of which he had Obtained a copy, relative to a plotfor land-
ing a French force in Ireland at the time when the Rreneh
and Spanish fleets entered the Channel, 'to establish the Duke
de Fitz-James, a descendant of the Stuarts, in the. govern-
ment of that country. He concluded 'by expressing his warm '
hopes for the personal safety
,of King Ferdinand. Next to his
own King, theta Was not another whom he looked to with so
much anxiety. Ile wished him to live unharmed through the
perils of the country, that his safety might go down to future
a n
exist.c o tfs ill idl SpanishegTve lilier tnya tio
and" . h Na‘p' il i' int lelsels tothgeenir
ages as the eternal monument of the moderation and forbear-
eCn
roantisotnitsuytiecrusnhhotiornldt
or whether it should fail, it would at least have the glory of
setting an example worthy of the greateat people that ever lived
upon the face of the world. In the midst of their glorious
struggle they had been opposed by fraud, treachery, and de-
ceit; whilst to their enemies they had been merciful—for4iving
• almost to blindnees.—(Great cheering !)—lle should say that
he almest envied the illustrious Arguelles in his sufferings in
the cause of his country and of freedom ; he was sure he en-
vied him in his talents and his eloquence • but most of all lie
envied him in that exalted feeling which led him to treat with
forbearance, with respect, and even with delicacy,—that &me-
reign who had sent him to toil as * private soldier in a mice.
'Able fort, beneath the bu ing sun Of Africa.—(Loud cheering.)
Mr. BAN KES exi ' 1.
.e „
Mr. Secretary PE ' .4 said, that standing as he did in the
situation of a party, to whom the question before the House
caAnicrtieerty, the to
admirable adval
was a criminatory revolution, he felt that eager, and, he trusted,
laudable lce
.leis
anrdunanswerable
lea o f not giiiltydteofentheee
hittge.
of his Right Honourable Friend, the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, he . should, however, be well content to leave the
question in the hands of the 1-louse. That defence' he must
say, had not been shaken or touched by the speech of the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman whd had just sat down. He must take
leave to examine the
.nature of that speech ; anti with the ex-
ception of five minutes, during which the Hon. and Learned.
Gentleman contended that a more dignified course of remon-
strance should have been taken. lUe would ask the House,
whether the whole argument adyanced was not in favour of a
declaration of war ?—(Hear, hear !)--It appeared that an fon.
and Learned Gentleman was willing to support the motion
whether the question turned on going to war or not. Did the
honour and interest of the country require war ? He should an-
swer—No,, • Did the voice of the people of England require
war, ?-L(llear, hear !)—No. Did the Spaniards require this
country to go to war ? Ile answered—No. If neither honour,
interest, nor treaties required war, was it competent to criminate
the Government on such grounds ? It really was too much to
hear an lion. and Learned Gentleman blame the speech of his
lion. Friend, the Member for Corfe Castle. lI is Hon. Friend had
not asked, whether the balance of power would be increased
by the aggression of France on Spain, but whether the balance
of power would be deranged by any increase to the power of
France. He might ask any man to answer by common calm-
don, whether it was probable France would succeed in the
war ? Spain was divided in eleven parts, and it appeared ten
millions were against the present invasion of France, and only
one million for it. Was it possible France could maintain Hu-
ntley occupation of the Peninsula ? , Detested by ten millions,
was it possible, even with the occupation of Cadiz, Ferrol,
and Corunna, France could snake her conquest secure ? The
,Honourable and Learneil Gentleman had appealed to the con-
duct of Queen Elizabeth,. as something upon which the Minis-
ters of the present day were to be criminated. Why did Eli-
zabeth interfere in the dissentions of foreign countries? "Why
did Elizabeth lend her assistance to tie Flemings P Not
upon any abstract principles_, but become it was the interest
of England to oppose Spain. They had been told Elizabeth
armed against despotism, and that she derived advansage
from the opposition she offered to despots. No such thing...-
Queen :Elizabeth was much too cautious, much too - wise, to
embark her country in a war or principle.. It was strictly
the interest of the country to engage in a war againet Phillip
the Second. It was not until the recall of the Duke of
Alva; not until eighteen thousand subjects of', Spain in
the Low Countries had been brought to the scallithl : not
until the appointment of Don John of Austria—that Queen
Elizabeth advanced a loan of 20,0001., and sent an army
to Flanders. She took as a security three towns in the Low
Countries. It was, in short, the interests of England, and
nothing but that interest, which induced her to oppose Spain.
T4ie same influence might be traced to the proceedings which
the Honourable and Learned Gentleman had cited in the
reigns of William and Anne. It had, also been urged that
because we opposed the invasion of Spain by Buonaparte, the
country was called upon at the present day to oppose France.
lie might ask whether the circumstances were similar to
those in the time of Buonaparte, when 60,000 men were
ready to take possession of that money. Spain was now
a divided country, and France would. find the greatest difil.
culty in promoting her views. Could the Hon. and Learned'
Gentleman thew there was any danger to Portugal, which
made it necessary to go to war. He maintained there was no
reason existing at that time for war on account of Portugal.
—lf Pornigal was attacked, this country would be ready to
discharge her obligation. France had received assurances that
England would respect the obligation, and if she commenced
an attack, Parliament and the country would most Zealously
enable his Majesty to discharge the obligation. He could not
but consider time course of debate and the impeathment of Go.
vernrnent most extraordinary. One of the most important
questione had been submitted for discussion, namely, whether
the policy this country maintained 404 the rt sgpcuttions was
calculated to meet the interest of the country, He might ask
whether. the peace of Europe was the interest of England ? And
secondly, if the peace of Europe was disturbed, whether it was
not our interest to preserve the peace of England ? Those ques-
tions rnnst be answered in the affirmative, and consenuentlY it

,was desirable to maintain a madiatoriaPposition, which might
provide some secprity against die meditated attack of France
on Spain. The single question on which the supporters of the
motion trusted, was one of degree; namely, whether or no the
tone of the Minister during the negociation was too submissive..
The lion: Member for Westmjneter had declared himself an
`advocate for a war of libeety against despotism. Ile for one
_should deplore the hour when England ever enters into such-.
7aver. At the same time he protested as much as any man,
,could, agaipst the doctrine of the holy Alliance to correct the.,
internahaffaies of foreign nations. He had, certainly suppertedt
'different,,, totiibill4:eSecretary
Petiylrdetail.beeluoPelltaselrnihis
iblfeiliirt isgpocit s
:op:
ofisr4te:iti h
aut t
c declarers'
o.
am
fiia t .
tiFh proceedings
more necessary
rlecr
ha
ei respectw NI, t'r'ance a
(nlfli
Minister.
leaenaitibi iod.olat invaded 3:
pnlcisipial
idietkep.dieWaect
.rit4:l;SiihntieoltapalitaneittePeltatuaS.irr lPhlbNite.efer
intranit:seepliTnnelifillitelrii :
of Austria and other powers in eh° affairs oft Naples was jut.
titled.drawing Ilaan ciertanferi:nlyeedelfroniverett
thlatthaotpopiniionino,nsai,
ani it did appear
to him that Austria was justified. The French- 31inuter,
itcilioatutiosseene.ofatLlTZlestillatiitdoj:tisaitniiifioNitawfttioni:lesghinatntddahetiyi
intent of England considered Austria justified in her attack.
on. Naples,
.they must also think France right in her attack
on Spain. To that inkrente he mold • not iteectLe Ile could,
different. In Naples they called on the King fur aCo The
mob attacked the King in his palace, and said the) would have
it in twenty-four hours. The object of that revolution was the
derangement of all Ital, and Austria was justified in garding•
aggression
se revolutionforconsideration. ('
ri
tri ranee. Spainpain rtry !Ire
against
revolution there, as bearing the diameter of the revolution in.
Naples, and he had no hesitation in declaring that the to
,
vision of Spain was an act of aggression on the pert °€'
France.—(Hear, hear, heath—An Honourable 31enther leid
declared himself the advocate for war of a peculiar character.—
The Honourable 31ember could not have a land war, but
re
a
Naval war. The Hon. Member thought the hulks ships we
liable todecay in ordinary.; and if they were sent to sea, the
country would not be much the itisevi Ile was not dieposed to
differ with the lion. Gentleman an ,to.the.. expellee of sueli a.
war ; but some difficulty would arise anaren3din7. Franceto
keep up a Naval war. What would the Honourable Gentle-
man gain by a maritime war? What could be done in aid
_f
Spain by a maritime war ? What could. he the re.sult of such
a war ? The Honourable Member thought they might sue:.
eeed in the capture oF Martinique, get all the sugar, ita"
war would be no,ntors: The Honourable and 'Leaned Gen!
deman had- said Ministers might have told France that it ,
they attacked Spain they would have to 'nee the Puke ot
Wellington on the arena ;. but the question
nwas, whether we
weve pre par to carry. threat. ito execution. If war was oc.
cesaary, theed s
country ought to go to war; but to use threats
without the intention to aupport, high 'language, woold
,Fnile
bring -upon the country contempt. In the courae of 11'
negociations there were three distinct, features. The ConO!!
at Verona, Lord Wellington's return to Paris, and the tip
of the King, with the subsequent events. It was truly
ear Di.
the Hon. Member for Menthes,. that they ought to bviem_
mind all the circumstance& under which the dispatches .roe
written. Was it intended to• criminate the Governmenrt
et;
had abewn, through the whole of' the langitrge
the language in these dispatches? His Right lion. F i
t.."
aged toi.n:,'
Allied Powers, that England consideredherself sepia. 7
from those Powers-. What was the language held at I eirolli:o.
M. Montmorency said iu his dispatch—" If England le de ~t_
separated herielf from the Congress at Verona die meiriar
_',l`.
contemplation for the amelioration of Spain would. have_Pyie
ceetled." That was the admission of France— what,ne the
opinion of Spain ? The dispatch of 31. San 3liguei
1na,..,a.....
12th of danuar,"comPlained of the part taken bY Fag,.., she
He said, " Will England not give effect to the
Prerinofithe part
professes ?" At that moment Spain was not awa-- •was net
taken by England. The complaint wset, that Sshe did.
apprized of the part England had taken, but when_ on
kisow..the pait taken. by. England, was she diseatisfireolsrure
or,
the 24th of December,.,M. San Miguel said, " a
\Vie it also call.
England, and satisfied with her. pet.tee." lit ln-g ' &beefed
the attention of the House anthe epmion of Spaill,
LI, _ b,
by San 11iguel, as to the mediatory course to t_ ; K_Tinri:
England. 1 t was this:---" There is certainly nothingri_'4 3t
sent to induce us to ask for such mediation' hut wetaienaly
sea, surrounded by dangers, and we Ina): want geein.
hand." There was no-proof of the dissatisfaction , ohm a-...,e.
An Hun. Gentleman had alluded to crooked and strittlf_hqiuho
but he was ready to contend that. his Itight linth„er,!:licame a
p_referred a rightof taking the course win.eci! ..1._.-ili. en
Bauritimotah 31 herar:tenr:ena.v_oitliinegart:>_e twialeesotreirn.
danger the; lots:rate of the country. His Right i into
ia,,.•
weal& carry houte at the end of the debate the centuro._tion"'of
faction of having performed his duty, and the anO.,,,n_i',, teen
adverted to the- mediation, apd obseryedd desire „, mediate in
peered in that transaction, but a frirdalYsheeg, what was to be
a manner advan!ageous to Spltill• l'er ' •
conflicts of the last twenty-cola t right, on a
that
gained by agreeing to theartotion ?
W 116
1 nion that the
non on which Ee had formed its deciiive opi _ cte „ads!,
isces,cr,ewathatiryn_7olmll ii:ettopti.,
House of Common,, should condemn the Isolicy of 11 t.,,,,
t desirable. .Aftet i,_it
Ministers. Strict neutrality had
been mos- s$ the
hest course for this country, whilst it e°l-`- of the interests.
honour. The Government luul acted in stlPPort.-. n submitted
of the country, and notwithstanding the Pr°l*mtio° , the aill°-
by the lion. Gentleman, they would doubtless en.l ) .
hation of the nationandpublic confitleece.
,
Sir Y. IJUIIDET'I' agreed with the 1g to take aa'
demon who had just sat down, that intoorder.__ .hies told
rest view of the luestion it was better l.oolt 17.facwtion toad
circumstances.. He could not but express 1!1$ '%, tiggressw
the genets' unanimity of sentiment respecting • '
' able Gentle-
coFrilltinnewe.ot
onl I e
of France wris not broken by the Riht honour.oonourabir
man. It had occurred Os him that the
Rightt conduct of
years striicti tillecuptrr:lsietryedw, oil
Secretary might have retained the opinion on th ' ropecting
France which wroi expressed on a former dot_A at letot,
Austria and tiagles. It was a satisfaction to ircunouot 0,
a general feeling in that House on the acTOCIOII
lan ~,at it
was not fit to descend to verbal crilicism on the Papers.w After
ought to be considered ou a far store general
andvte the pa
there had been so much discussion on tbe subject. ~, ~,,,mina for
tathelmpihtrastetleowiti)tgltyt.he Right lion. Gentle!' lfitcy
pers had been so ably examined, there . wits i'tucane.;(ho OP;
the minion. had made a sound argument; and after
whole ago.
been said, it would ill. become him to go over the the top n,
Ile should confine himself to a feR, obseriations, °,l set doir,a'
of the Riht Honoureble Gentleman who had 'lie. t the Iligil
On that which took place at Verona, be should Mew, . in that
Honourable Gentleman in linaine, and say there, fa Mji)l:
transaetion• more than enough to call on the hes" of askEd
ster the censure of that House. 'The seer was
whether the King of England wotild withdrair his
frouthoritY•
and give up to France the weight 'of her mor
to ore so
They asked him what effectual support' he w°,hise rt"e"
France in- the execution of her measures. If 'fish 011`"
The lion. Gentler 0
Lions had been answered, as it became an rang the feel.•
ster to answer, the language would have roar', „oeli IW';
ings of indignation entertained by the country up. ..,ak, war
l'asitionia He knew not whether it was tt:oriusters
the result,, but it certainly was not the du
ty of rnothing c°,
abandon the high spirit of the country. War Illt,hi
,huati eel.
do with the question. It might have been Sitid 14 ta nOtri*'l
can give consent to a proposition of this sort. eeetbtatealZt
ble England' can &elte her moral support to 'stich 6 "'loot supPosi
of aggression, and so far from her deriving soy " . so oter .
from England, the will feel herself bound to till ,rocteatngi
weight into the other srale. There was a line. 7 Pod rrior,go
'short of war, which would have saved the dig"' Ythe state lot
Character of the country from being ptit inn .. we l',
which it then stood.' 'They should have gaol line of lie%
take- these steps without transgressing the 6trict hil't i°
trality which may
are tleterraiued on this odious purls; we sat of oat Much lent
counteract your design'', n",,,ditwieirea ou
Ambassador. We will do all that is rota breach
I__ oats.
.0
Such a line of proceeding would have been t.i!!!.01; a efer4}:_e't
with the character of England. It would have hc!. the Ari.r,,_,4
the detestable proicet of France, more forcible trial,' a hint that
of the J)uke of IVellington, which only convsuosillot,
France Was taking on herself unneceasari. ratties of dour,
The Papers niade the Ministers app!fir antic r, becatilic po-
tion injustice, and seducers of Spa.rosh honouriwithoot a
vie
made propositions which Spain Could not giv(nta_l'e seain 0'143
render. of honour. It was an attempt to in httf.4e there_ m,
up her Constitution, not for any Advantage,
would tho'sirt-p.
no proof that the Cabinet of the Tuileries
_.„,,stm to,_..re
(icy. 'lle English mediator never gave them saje%,`,7o-old s'ceuef
nose that if Spain wave up her Constitution, 1,1101)11 also
herself against the danger which threatened bor. _ blinder ,11,
Wellington might see well in the field, but he was was there
Wellington might see well in the field, but •t,l" ijtl' ":'
is mole to the faults of those he called his frielloisi
when he came back to the Throne, muniereon,i_let,„ a oy__!'„,,,
nothing iiiiethwehcoo ndtilauge:.aocefdlieriistilinnaontidiert,hbeeSetrovyent,.l,o,ls:freint4cilieetrilrei:y
was quite impossible not to see there was cleave
mein!. the
ing with that party. It was difficult to 14.V17.:„ had
1,,. pot
of
ictiolme pecillueent"andhadnoacttthellewtilthrpesg°°doffatiitli:ll-I":"ci'llithriegliac.r.'l:it"tv.-e'r
have been greater enemies to the Spentrai _ invo Jed !irt„,,,
was in more danger than when the itiot!Trl*gurope rnlf,B
If the act of atrocity could succeed, e'rhleiland heooto
to op pis All would be lost, anti .ti ,g,
" A wildernees again— ~, inhabitants.' olentitj
Peopled by wolves--its 01 _goad, so. 1 _out
Never was the independence of Europa Ton of spell ;_,"bie to,
If France should succeed in the stittitteil not be po 1"
thiS couetty remain in parsec ? A '•