The Sun.
London, England, 1823-05-17 00:00:00

CAMBRIDGE PHILOSOPHICAL SOCIETY.

(From the Cambridge C'hronick May 16.)
The Third Anniversary Meeting of the. Cam-
bridge Philosophical Society was held on Tues-
day last, at twelve o'clock, wiien the following
officers were elected for the ensuing year :--
President.--John Haviland, M.D. Regius Professor of Phy.
sic,St. John's College.
Vice-Pretidents.—Fredetick Tliackeray, M.D. Emmanuel
College; Rev. Virtu. Farish, B.D. Jacksonian Professor, Mag-
dalene College; Rev. James Cumming, M A. F.R.S. Profes-
sor of Chemisty, Trinity College.
Treasurer.—Rev. Bewick Bridge, B.D. F.R.S. Fellow of
St. Peter's College.

Sesretaties.—Rev. George Peacock, M.A. F.R.S. Tutor of
Trinity College; John Stevens flenslow, M.A. F.L.S. M.O.S.
Professor of Mineralogy, St. John's College.
Steward ythe Ileafirng lioom.—Wm. Whewell M.A. F.R.S.
Fellow of Trinity College. ,
OM Members of the CouneiL—Rev. Temple Chevallier,
31. A. Tutor of Cathtine Hall ' • Rev.-Arthur Judd Carrighan,
13. D. Fellow of St. John's College; Rev. A Mersey Dicken,
M.A. Tutor of St. Peter's College ; Joshua King, M.A. Tutor
of Queen's College.
New Mmber, of the Council.—Rev. Adam Sedgwick, M.A.
F.R.S. Woodwardian Professor of Geology, Fellow of
Trinity College ; Marmsduke lta.msay, M.A. Fellow of Jesus
College; Richard Twopeny, M.A. Fellow of St. John's
College. - -

After- a very satisfactory report from the Treasurer, of the
state of the funds of the society, the Secretary proceeded to read
the report of the Council : it commenced with a statement of
the very flourishing state of the society, which now consists of
296 Fellows and 62 Honorary Members; in the course of the
last year it has received an accession of till Fellows and 10
llonoraty Members, and the increase upon the whole is more
considerable than during either of the preceding years; a very
satisfactory proof of the.contidence of the University at large in
the permanence and stability of the society, and of their cor-
viction of its great utility.
After discussing at considerable length several questions con-
nected with the constitution of the society, and the distribution
of tts funds, the report concluded with a short review of the
proceedings of the society during the last year ; as this part of
the report may be interesting to many of our readers, We have
ventured to present it to their notice :
The Council do not feel it necessary to notice all the commu-
nications which have been made to the Society during that
period, which, of course, are very unequal both in value and in.
terest ; and the remarks which they have ventured to make upon
some of them must not be considered as the expression of a
judgment upon their merits, but as merely elicited by the cir-
cumstances of the several cases.

Mr. Airy's paper on the construction of reflecting telescopes
with silvered lenses, in the place of metallic Mirrors, Is remark-
able not merely from the academical rank and situation of its
author, but likewise for the great ability displayed in the ma-
thematical investigations which it contains ; he has shewn in
what manner the spherical and chromatic aberrations may be
corrected, and the accuracy of his conclusions has been fully
established in a telescope constructed in this manner : there
exists in it, however, from some caste not easily explained, a
radiation of light so considerable as to render the image con-
fused ; and this construction itself altogether useless for practi-
cal purposes, unless subsequent and more perfect trials should
suggest methods by which this effect may be corrected. The
grinding of lenses, where is high polish is required, is a much
more simple process than the formation and polishing ofrnirrors
for reflecting telescopes, and one of the advantages which Mr.
Airy considered as likely to result from his construction, would
be tliat of superseding the necessity of polishing metallic
mirrors to spherical anti parabolic forms : the latter operation
indeed has attracted in a very particular manner, the at-
tention .of artists and astronomers, and Mr. Whewell lately
read to the Society an interesting notice of the different me-
thods which have been proposed for that purpose, Mr. Cecil,
a gentleman whose talents in practical mechanics have on other
occasions been brought before the notice of the Society, exhi-
bited at the last meeting in the October term, a machine for
this purpose, which is calculated to save nearly all the manual
labour which has hitherto been required in operations of this
kind, and which is not subject to the danger of leaving circular
streaks on the mirror, to which other methods are liable. It
would be satisfactory to have an opportunity of judging of the
absolute practical utility of this method, by the comparison of
a finished specimen of a mirror produced by it, with one pro.
ducal by the ordinary process.
Professor Sedgwick has read two very elaborate papers to the
Society, on the great Basaltic formation of Upper Teesdale on
the confines of Durham and Yorkshire, the result of two exa-
minations of that very remarkable district, and proposes, by a
third examination of it, to give additional accuracy and there-
fore additional importance to his observations.
It would be unjust, on an occasion like the present, not to
notice in an especial manner, the memoir of Mr. Bowditch, on
the Distribution of Plants in the Island of Madeira ; the first
scientific fruits of the labours of a traveller, from whose zeal
and great acquirements the most important results may be ex-
pected: he is at ante a botonist, geologist, zoologist and entomolo-
gist ; he is practised in allkindsof observations, whetherastrono-
mica!, g. celaetical, or meteorological, and is furnished with the
"beet instruments for making thine t add to these accomplish-
ments a knowledge of the language most prevalent among the
people' he is visiting, and little is wanting to our idea of a tra-
veller perfectly prepared for his duties; he has encountered
poverty and almost eirery privation, in order to be able to ac-
complish his favourite object of African discovery ; and may
God grant that he may not add one to the long list of illustri-
ous travellers who have become the victims of this perilous
enterprize!
Every person who heard the memoir of Professor Cumming
on Electro-magnetism as developed by heat, which was lately
read to the Society, will join in the wtsh.that he will complete
the interesting and beautiful series of experiments, which he
has commenced so successfully, upon a subject which at pre-
sent is entirely:his own.
it is the practice of some Foreign Societies to commission,
from time to time, particular members to draw up reports of
the proceedings of other Societies, or of the progress of some
branch of science, or to. give accounts of new and remarkable
discoveries ; this practice seems admirably calculated to give
activity to the members of a society, and to keep them con-
stantly alive to the progress of knowledge.
The Memoir, which was read by Mr. Whewell at the first
meeting of the Society for the presenteterm, on the Electra.
dynamical Researches of M. Ampere, furnishes an excellent
euample of a report of this kind ; and the Council refer to it in
a more particular manner, in consequence of their great anxiety
to see this practice introduced generally into this Society ; to
one member may be entrusted the report on the discoveries
in Electro-Alagnetisin : to another those on the Polarization of
Light : others may be commissioned to report on the progress
of Chemistry, Astronomy, Medicine, Geology, Analysis, anti
SO on : we should thus be enabled to furnish interesting em-
ployment to many of our members, who, perhaps, have no lei-
sure for original researches : and without adverting to the
great benefit which the reporters themselves might derive
from this employment, the Society would be constantly fur.
Wished with new and interesting information, anti its mem-
bers supplied with new materials for thinking, and new motives.
for inquiry.
The Council have not upon this, as at our last anniversary
meeting, the melancholy task of recording the death of tiny Fel-
low, who was intimately connected with the Society : Amongst
our Honorary Members, however, they have to mention the
venerable name of Sir William Herschel, whose fame is
inscribed in imperishable characters upon the system of the
universe; though not immediately connected with this Uni-
ventity anti associated with this Society in extreme old age, he
is known to have expressed great interest in its welfare t we
may claim ,indeed a more intimate connection with this illus-
trious Patriarch of Astronomy, through the distinguished Phi.
losopher who is the inheritor of his name and talents, and who
promisti to become one of the greatest ornuments of this So.
cietv, and of the Univereity.
The Council cannot dose their labours for the year, and
surrender the authority with which they were entrusted by you'
again into your hands, without expressing their grateful thanks
for the kiwi and indulgent manlier with which you have
throughout coeoperated with theme they have never heard an
angry or a querulous observation, and they cannot help inter-
preting mach great forbearance ore your part as the best and
moat satisfactory proof which could be aftbrded them of your i
perfect approbation of their conduct.

PARLIAMENT,

HOUSE OF LORDS, May 16.

Lord DACRE moved for returns of the Malt Duties from
the year l793.—Ordered. His Lordship also presented a pe.
titian from the inhabitinta of Royston, Hens, praying for the
gradaal abolition of Slavery in the Colonies.—Ordered to lie
on the table.
Sir EDWAIM KNATCJIMITLIE., accompanied' by several
Members of the House of Commons, brought up the Maidstone
Gas Light and other private -Bills.
Sir GEORGE litea. brought a Message from the Cotnniont,
stating, that in the Bill for more effectually regulating the office
of county treasurer in Ireland, a clause had, by mistake, been
introduced into the engrossed copy which bad been sent to
their Lordships, and which clause had been disagreed to by the
Commons, who requested, therefore, that their Lordships
would he pleased to expunge the clause. After the Message had
been read, the Lord Chancellor informed the Comtnons that
the House would send an answer by a messenger of its own.
OFFICES IN REVERSION. •
Earl GROSVENOR stated, that last year be had made
motion on the. Subjeet of sinecures. He now Wished for sense
information respecting offices in the NVest Indies, which, though
not exactly sinecures, were nearly allied to them, as they were
executed by deputy ; and also offices granted in reversion.
The Earl oILIVERPOOL said, that with respect to the
offices alluded to by the Noble Lord, every thing had been
done that could be done at present, till some of the existing
interests expired ; but any person now appointed to an office in
the West Indies was obliged to go there, and execute it in per.
son. With respect to the revenue and other departments, they
had been subjected to the scrutiny of commissions, some of
which were still in the course of their inquiries.
Lord KING complained of the manner in whittit pensions
were granted on the four and half per cent. duties.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, that no pension had been
granted on that fund for a long time past.
Earl GROSVENOR then moved for a return of all offices
granted in reversion by the Crown, since the Ist January 1820.
—Ordered. His Lordship subsequently moved for a similar
return as to pensions.—Agreed to.
IVEIGHTS AND MEASURES.
The Marquis of LANSDQWN presented a petition front
the Chamber of Commerce in Glasgow, against the Weighty
and Measures' Bill. On moving that the petition do lie on
the table, the Noble Marquis observed that he was by co
means prepared to give any definite opinion on the subject.
but it was one of the very highest importance, and the
objections of the petitioners were entitled to the gravest con.
sideration.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL agreed with the Noble Marquis
that the subject was of the highest importance. lie believed
there was a standing order of their Lordships, that all bills of
this nature should, before the first reading, be referred to a
select committee. (The standing order was read by the clerk
at the table.) Ills Lordship continued—that if the present
bill was not within the words of that order, it came dearly
within its spirit. lie should, therefore, propose that the bill
should be referred to a committee, and also the petition which
the Noble Lord had presented.
Lord MELVILLE said the subject had been referred to
commissioners, and they had reported upon it : those reports
were before the Committee of the /louse of Commons who con.
sidered the bill. He thought that those reports should be also
before their Lordships' Committee.
After some further conversation, in which the Earl of Lev ;Re
POOL and the Duke of SOMERSET took part, the Committee
was appointed, and the bill and petitten referred to it.
31 ILITIA REDUCTION lIIELAND.)
On the order of the day being read tor the third reading of
the Irish Militia Reduction Bill,
Lord GOSPORD rose, and repeated his former objections
to the bill, as a breach of faith and an act of injustice to the
men, who would thus be set adrift without any compensation. '
lie urged on their Lordships' attention the great danger there
would be in spreading through the country a body of men, used
to arms, with such motives to be discontented.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL supported the Bill. Out of 800
men who would be dieeharged, 550 would have pensions, and
the others would have openings made tbr them to act as eon.
stables under the new Act.
The Earl of C/11/EDON concurred in all that had been said
by his Noble Friend (Lord Gosford). lie should therefore
oppose the Bill.
After a few words front Lord Lon. Tote- against the Bill, the
Mouse divided, when there appeared—.
Content, 18 I Not Content, 9 I Majority for the Bill, 9.
The Bill wits then read a third time passed.
On the motion of the Earl of SIIA.I, T El3ll ItY, it was ordered
that a message be tent to the Commons to request copies of the
2d and 3d Reports of the Committee on Weights and !Ilea.
cures.--Adjourned till Thursday next.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
NEW LONDON BRIDGE.
L2I3IBTON presented a petition from the 31erchants
and Owners of Ships at the. Ports of Newcastle and South
Shields., praying that no toll may be imposed on vessels pass-
ing up the River, on account of the erection of a new London
Bridge._

M. A. TAYLOR said, the idea of imposing such a toll
as was petitioned against had been abandoned by the Cotnr.;it.
tee appointed to inquire into the subject.
The petition was ordered to be referred to the Committee.
Mr. F. BUXTON presented petitions from Cromer, from
Halstead, in Essex, and from two other places, in favour of the
abolition of slavery.—Ordered to be printed.
NEWFOUNDLAND AND TUE ISLE OF MAN.
Mr. BUME moved, that there should be laid before the
House, Accounts of the Income of the Governor of Newfound.
land, of the Governmtnt Rents, of the Amount of the Customs
of the Island, and other A ccounts---Ordered.
He also moved for a Return of the Public Revenue of every
kind collected in the Isle of Man, and other Accounts connected
with the affairs of that Island.—Ordered.
FOREIGN YARN.
Mr. S. RICE presented a petition from the Chamber of Com.
merce, at Limerick, praying the imposition of a duty on Foreign
Yarn.

After a few words from Mr. flusitissow and Mr. FL.Lici:,
the petition was ordered to be printed.
Mr. BROUGHAM moved for an account of all places now
held by .John Wilkie, late of the Stamp Office, together with a
return of all pensions received by him.—Ordered.
PAYMASTER OF MARINES.
Mr. BROUGHAM wished to know if there was any truth
in the report that a new house was now building in Spring
Gardens, for the accommodation of the Paymaster of Marines
If this were true, be supposed it was because in peace the duties
of that office were necessarily so much increased.
Mr. HUSKISSON said, if any such building were going
on, the business being connected with the Admiralty, he had
nothing to do with it, and knew nothing at all of the matter.
The House went into a Committee on the Registry of Ves-
sels Bill.

Mr. HUSKISSON explained to the Committee the reasons
which induced him to withdraw the clause providing for a new
admeasurement of goods on beard ships, and leave that subject
just
resolution
twoa.lustiaotif present.
been agreed to, the report was ordered
to
The
eregritver fortnight,ottriontshiadterdaapionoi.t he larinsdh ttohttpir
Juryinted.
Present-
meat Bill was postponed till Wednesday.
The Cochineal I uties Bill went through a Committee, the 4'
report of which was ordered to be received on Wednesday.
The second reading of the Silk Manufacturing lull was or-
dered to be read a second time on Wednesday.
BEER TRADE.
Mr. BROUGHAM brought in a Rill for regulating the Beer
Trade. Certain patties favourable to the brewers, and un-
friendly to his measure, had introduced a Bill to enable public I
brewers to retail beer in smaller quantities than four gallons
and a half, provided the same were not consumed on the pre-
mises of the brewer. His Bill went to authorise all his Ma-
esty'a subjects to retail beer in small plantitics, and therefore
it passed, that of which he had jnst spoken would be super-
throw:. It reminded hint of the very old story of a moo who
having two cats, a large one and a little one, had a large and
little hole made in his wall for them to pass through from his
garden, forgetting that the little cat would be always able to
make her way thrttgli the hole whieh had been intended for,
her compsmon. lie briefly explained the slight iiitil'rence
which existed between this bill arid the Bill diem year.
The Bill Was then read a litut, and ordered to be read a se-
cond time on Friday.
The Masters and Apprentices Dill went through a Com-

PRISON TREATMENT.

Lord F. OSBORNE presented a petition -from John Clarke,
eof Shipton, in the North Riding of Yorkshiree complaining of
'the treatment he had experienced while in prison, and before.
lie had been tried on the charge preferred against him. The
prisoner had been kept to hard labour upwards of one hundred
day s, and had been eventually discharged without receiving
any -recompence for • his. labour. The Noble Lord considered
there had been gross injustice used towards the Petitioner. •
Mr.' S. WORTLEY had been as indignant at hearing of,
this case as the Noble Lord could be, considering the conduct;
of the partieS connected with the prison to be illegal. He, how-
-ever,
found that a- prisoner might be legally employed before -,
-trial, so that the,labotrr were not severe.
The petition was ordered to be printed.
Lord F. OSBORNE then,preaented a petition from.a per-
son of the name of Martin Stapleton, complaining of the On-
tfuct of a Magietrate who had committed him to prison, to work
.:at the. Tread-mill, not having heen triedon the charge preferred
against him. - •
Mr. JAMES seconded the motion, and spoke in favour of
~theetmetitione
• Lord F, OSBORNE spoke against compelling females to
Work at the . ,
Mr. Secretary PEEL had 'made minute inquiries to, ascer,
stain from the Physicians of ,the Severale.Prisone what effect the
labour of the Tread-mill had on the health of prisoners. From
" --these inquiries nothing had transpired with respect to its
operation on Canal* that made it at all necessary to alter
the law, but sit the same time, for various reasons, it was
,desirable that they *should only be subjected to that. punish-
ment under the vigilant superintendence of the Magistrates
-.and Surgeon.
Mr. DENMAN thought the punishment of the Tread-mill
'oughtnot to be inflicted before sentence had been given.
Mr. S. WORTLEY showed, by reference to the 22d of the
Tate King, that it was lawful to employ prisoners before trial.
After u few further observation*. from Mr. DF.NMAN, Mr. S.
•WonrLrey, and Lord MILTON,
Mr. Secretary PEEL said, persons might be put to work be-
fore trial, but he thought it objectionable to put them,,to work'
the Trea&mill in company with those who hid been tried.—
. 'Though prisoners might be set to work before trial, it' the labour
of the Tread:.thill was considered to fix a stigma oa -them, this
pUnishment ought to be spared. ,
Mr. S. WORTLEY had merely stated the law of the ease.
The policy of employing prisoners, in the manner described,
-Mikht be a very different question.
Lord MILTON had listened with delight to the words of
- the Right Hon. Secretary, and perfectly concurred in the s'en-
. timents which lie had expressed.
Mr. Secretary PEEL wished it to be understood that he was
not against the prisoner being employed befoeearial, in a way
that might vonduce to his own benefit. •
- Lord MILTON said that was precisely what he meant.
The petition was then'ordered to be printed. - •
- 'Mr. D. GILBERT moved that the Committee on London
Bridge should have leave to make their, report on or before
filontley sennight.
SCOTCH. BUSINESS.
The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND, on the re..
-ports of the Confirmation (Scotland) Bill, and the Commis-
saries' Bill being taken into further consideration, moved that
they should be re-committed on Wednesday.
Lord A. HAMILTON wished to know if these Bills were
to be'advanccd one step forward on the present occasion
The LORD ADVOCATE said the Bills would be advanced
- a step, as it was moved that they should be re-einumitted on
Wednesday-.
• The SPEAKER 'remarked the progress,of the measures
would be one step backward.—( A. laugh.)
Lord A. HAMILTON could not allow these Bills to be
noticed without complaining of the Manner in which they had
been kept back hitherto, and were now hurried forward. lie
wished to know why it was proposed to re-commit them on
Wednesday. • •
• The' LORI) ADVOCATE explained, andidefended the
-course which he had pursued with these Mills. If the Noble
Lord 'objected to their being re-committed on Wednesday,. he
'would willingly name any other day which he might prefer.
After a few words from Mr. AItERCROMDY and Mr. H uMr.,
,the Bills were ordered to be re-committed on Friday next.
Mr. WHAIOT HORTON presented a Petition froni New-
castle-under-Lyme against Slavery. Ordered to he printed.
Mr. HUM E rose topiesent it Petition from Mr. Butcher, a
"fruit-dealer, residing in Dundee, complaining of the manner
in which the Excise was conducted In Edinburgh. He had
Amen 'ruined by a collector, iii consequence of a dispute be-
tween them as to the time at which his license expired. • One.
said it expired, in September, and the other that it expired in
Janqary. Thellonourable MeMber complained of the system
of the Excise in
.Edinburgh, and stated that it was very dif.
fcrent front the regulation of the Customs, and ought to be
altered.
.The LORD ADVOCATE said that Ile was nut acquainted
with the circumstances of the case, but that lie had no doubt a
proper remedy would be afforded by the proper tribunals if ap.
pealed to.
After a few words from Mr. DRUMMOND and Mr. HUME,
-the Petition was ordered to be printed.
• A DJOUR,NME NT.
Mr. Secretary CANNING moved that the (louse at its
rising do adjourn till Wednesday. The Right Hon. Gentle.
.man also presented certain Papers to the House, but the noise
-which prevailed rendered the few words he in explanation
of their contents quite inaudible in the Gallery.
HUSH CHIEF .1„1ARON.
Mr. WYNN presented the Report of the Committee upon
,the Itish Court of Exchequer.
Mr. S. RICE said, that having brought forward this ques.
whicheinvolved charges of a serious nature against the
Chief Baron of the Exchequer in Ireland, he thought it was
incumbent upon the Government to take further steps in the
:business. Ile should never shrink from a duty in which he had
embarked, but he thought it unfair that the whole burthen of
.any future proceedings should .fall upon an individual. •
Mr. Secretary CANNING said, that if Ca.! Hun. Member
meant to affirm, that when any Member brought forward
•charges against an official character, and, in his own opinion,
proved them before a Committee, that then the Members of
;the executive were to -roceed by prosecution, he enlist state
, that that was neither Parliamentary in practice nor in ]prig-
ciple. Mr., Burke, in the impediment of Mr. Hastings, did
not eexpect to have the assistance of the Government • and Mr.
Whitbread, in. tb3 case of Lord Melville, pursne‘the saute
course. If they were dealing with a-reniovelAe Alter, and a
•case of corruption had been proved, then be eultavitted they
Were bound to remove such officer, as members of the Execu..
, tire but not as members of that House. With the case of
Judge he knew only of two courses of proceeding.; either by
an Address of that' House, or by impeacliment: And either of
ethose courses would better originate with the first accuser than
with any Member Of the Government. Ile would now tell the
'Boa. °mach-ion that it was not the intention of any MeMber
of the Executive to move in this-case. He should not tuTove in
it, and he hoped that none of his Colleagues would. - •
Sir .7. NEW Pt p wr contended, that the charges had not ore.
ginated with his Hon. Friend the Member for Limerickebut
with the Royal Commission which the Right lion. Gentleman
opposite supported.
Mr. WI NN thonght no case could be so extreme as that of
supposing the Government bound to proceed in this'ease, he-
cause the charges grew out of Commission of Inquiry instituted
by the Crown, in consequence of an Address of that House.
If they were to do so, it would be impossible to prevent the
question being considered in some degree P. party question, and
thaewould be most unfair to the individual accust.d, as well as
injurious to the.operations of justice. • -
.Mr. AIIERGROAIBY did not mean to prolong this Con.
vereatioeebecause it 1;38 plain to every- man at all -acquainted
with ParliamentaV practice, that • the case -would proceed no
• farther. lie agreed with the Right Hon- President of the
Weird, of Ceintreul, that the queition, if brought in by Govern:.
-merit, INOitht be coneidered a party one; ant: consequently if it.
ongieated on the other Side of time Honey, it would .be
.treated
in the same iveye and, opposed. After tm declaration.or the
,Bight Hon. Secretary of State, that time Government would not
ainxi,t further proceedings, it was plain to all men of sense that
they-would oppose diem if moved by others.
Mr. :Secretary. CANNING.---". Mr. Speaker, I eke this.
tinctly to deny, in -the face of this House and of the country,
`the covrectnees of that inference. On the contrary, if the Ho.
noerable Accuser deterinines to go on with these charges, I
'shell give my inmost attention to the investigation. I give this
pledge without any knowledge of the merits of the case,.
and eon lees of the individual whemse character it effects. As
to his pelities, which is the only thing that could influence, or
could be eileged tuinfuence the feelings-upon anal a question,
I have m.-,cc: even heard on which side they are." The Might
lion. Gentlemioi repeated - that he pledged his honour to sup-
port hr. pertial ineumry if the Hon. Member chow to proceed,
and theft he wot,ld discountenance every feeli:,g of 'party upon
the sebjeci

T
Mr. NT NN appealed to the lion. Mover of the Committee,
whethe: ha bd. ma paid every possible attention to its pro-
cectliti, and rued impartially upon them. lie considered
the langilage of +La lion. Member (Mr A bercromby) to imply
a charge cr' party feeling upon the occasion ; and if the lion.
Member hiri attended Cite Committee, he would have seen how
little grouid zl,xist,ed fJr that charge. At all events, the charge
came wi:h a beid grace fruul the 'Hon. Member, who had di-
nt t7d the Couuuittee.

.Mr.
Dior:. (IL'

'3. ltlcE wLiJ he perfectly agreed eaAt nothing could
a:kAuwic-dgments than the svdtdon and con.-
cf the night [lon. Gentleman, except the im-
.2; an fairnebs.by wLich it vat. accompanied.--.(11earl).

stunt

~r.:ri~ :.

etittee the eepott of which was ordered to be 'received on, He iihotila• not Shrink from what he night hereafter deem his
lletlnectley. " duty ; - but he protested against the hardship of throwing the
whole weight of that duty upon one indieidual.
Mr. ABERCROM BY expressed his satisfaction at the
pledge given by. the Right lion. Secretary of State; but it was
the that time he had heard of a Government being the favourer
ofthat which it would not bring forward.= - •
11Ir. Secretary CANNING denied having pledged himself to
become the favourer or the disfavourer of either side of the
question. He was ,ready to give it constant and impartial
attention.
Mr. DENMAN contended that the Right lion. Secretary of
State had been premature in making a voluntary declaration
that in no case would the Government take, up the question,
because the Right Hon. Gentleman himself confessed that he
was ignorant of the facts of the case.
- Mr. Secretary CANNING made a few observations in re-
ply to what had fallen from Mr. Denman.
Mr. Secretary. PEEL said, it was a dangerous principle to
lay down, that the executive should undertake the institution
of all impeachthents. Even in cases of retrievable officers, it
was competent for any individual Member on one side or the
other to originate proceedings in that House. - It was always
better for such questios not to be brought forward by the exe-
cutive, and least of all would it be detareable, after a Member
-had taken up a case, and carried it to a certain point, for
them to come in.with further proceedings.
Mr. S. RICE and Mr. &artery PEEL explained.
Mr. It. SM ITII agreed with those who thought that the Go-
vernment ought not to be the originators of impeachments. But
this was a case which,. by the meanness and littleness of the
malpractices charged upon the accused party, Would stand in
such ludicrous contrast with the dignity and magnitude of such
a proceeding, that he thought it would be better to 'leave the
whole matter where it was, than to pursue it by such means.
But it remained for the overnment to see whether there was
no other course which would Parry the matter out of that House,
alai yet accomplish the ends of justice. lie hoped he should
be able to suggest such a course ; for, although he had found
no cases of precedent, yet in Coke's Reports there was a memo-
rial which clearly alluded to a case in which that course was
contemplated Every body knew that the words of the patent
by which a Judge • held his office were " yawn dims se bene
gem, it."' The Memorial •to which he referred stated, that
there was a Mr. John Walterman, a Baron of the Exchequer,
whom it was wished to remove from the Bench. But he.stood
upon the words of his patent, " gnaw din se bene gessirit,"
and refused to resign without a,scfre fiteias to shew malegestion
on his part; in consequence of which, he continued to sit on the
Bench to the end of his (lays. The Hon. Member contended
that such a course as was here pointed out would best befit the
case with which they now had to deal.
Mr. Secretary CANNING said he was not ashamed to con-
fess his ignorance of what the lion. Member .had suggcsted,'as
no precedent had been found wherein such a course had been
pursued. And when •be spoke of no proceedings being taken
4y .the Government, he of course did not allude to this, but to
Parliamentary measures.
Mr.'WETHUIIELL made some observations which were
not distinctly audible.
Mr. R. SMITH explained. . .
Mr. HUME contended that it was the peculiar duty of Go--
vernment to tyke steps in the case, and to keep the seat ofjudg-
ment pure. • .
Dr. LUSHINGTON said he happened to have been a Mem-
ber of the Committee, and he declared that if the case came be-
fore the House, he thought it would' be impossible for a majo-
rity, or even a minority of , the House to understand its com-
plicated nature. • If possible they should avoid Parliamentary •
proceedings, but' at all events. they could not let the case rest
where it- was.
-Mr. Secretary CANNING said that he had first spoken in
what he believed to be the common ignorance of any other
mode of reaching the case but through Parliameht. lie con-
fessed that the suggestion of die Hon. Member for Lincoln, if
were found correct, wouldvery much alter his opinion of the
judicial independence. But he was not at present capable of
Judging of its correctness, and he was willing to take the opi.
nion of those who were competent to decide upon such a
question: •
The conversation then dropped.
• - PEERS' MESSAGE.
A Message from the Lords announced that their Lordships
had agreed to the Irish Militia Reduction Bill, and several
private Bills.
IRISH TITHES COMPOSITION.
Mr. GOULBURN moved the Order of the Day for going
into a tormuittee upon the above Bill.
Mr. V. FITZGERA LD said, that before the Speaker left
the Chair he wasanxieus to take this early opportunity of ex.:
pressing his disapprobation of some of . the principles of the
Bill. Ile believed that no proposal of commutation had ever
been submitted to Parliament, without the provision that
compensation should be granted for tythes .which had been re.
ceiv,al only.. And it' he could slew that the present Bill
gave remuneration not only • for receipts,'but for claims which
the -Clergy had never imagined they a:mould receive, and
even for tythes which they never thought of claiming, he
thought he should prove that insterul of lessening, it amps.
mented the evils of tythes, and that instead of relief, it would
give increased oppression :to the people. Ile should not go
into the details, because he believed many of them. to be im-
practicable, anti incapable of amendment, except by total
omission. His main objection was to one particular clause.—
The Right Hon. Gentleman then went through the provisions
of the Bill relating to the formation of vestries, and the ap-
pointment of Commissioners on the part of the parishioners and
of the incumbent. They then came to a clause which provided
that if within a-given time either of the parties held out and re-
fused to make composition, the Lord Lieutenant should hays the
power of appointing a Commissioner to decide upon the amount
of compensation for " all lawful tithes," without reference to
any receipts whatsoever. This was to be the alternative even
where the incumbent refused to appoint a Commissioner in the
first instance.- do thatif he wished to revive dormant claims
which he had . not thought. of. making himself, he had but to
object to the composition, and - they would, be granted to him
by this power. lie considered the Resolutions of the Irish'
House of Commons of the year 17811 As a spoliation of the
Church of Ireland: With regard to the Potato Tithe, he be.
lieved it bad been rarely exacted in Ireland, though it bud re-
cently. been demandeel In a few instances ; and the' demand
aline had caused a strong feeling of irritation. Ile objected,
therefore, to a valuation being take», on the mere dormant
right of taking this tithe. Ile wished that the Catholic meth.
pier. should pay tithe in the shape of rent to the landlord;
but he objectea to any measure which 'should profess to ac.
complish this and . yet .should have the effect, of increasing.
the revenue ot the Church. Ile thought, too, that it would
be impossible. to .-come to a fair valuation under this Bill
without a previous new survey. Indeed he thought the whole
measure would, have, been better had it been preceded by
a Parliamentary Commission, to ascertain the value of the
lifibeent livings of Ireland. At present the proceeding would
be principally of a parochial nature. He should resist the
motion for the Speaker leaving the Chair, though he did not
dunk it necessary for him to divide .the house upon- it. He
really trusted the 'lease would very gravely consider the int- '
portance of this Bill ; foe if it were once passed, it could not
lightlY be altered. It Was a Bill, in his opinion, intended to
relieve the country, but which would have the effect, in many
instances of doubling, and in some of quadrupling the Incomes
of the Clergy. Ile implored the House to pause before they
proceeded with a Bill, against which the Clergy protested, and
which would not give satisfaction to thepeople.
Mr. GOULBURN declared his conviction that the Bill
would not be attended by the evils imagined by his Right lion.
Friend. Belied never denied that the subject was surrounded
by difficulties; but, under any circumstenees, such a measure
as the present must always boilable to objections. He merely
called upon the Howie toeay, whether it was not a Bill as free
from defects as it possibly could be, considering the nature of
the subject; and whether such defects. as it realy did contain
could not, in a great measure, be remedied by a discussion of
its details in a Committee. Indeed, in the first instance, he
had wished to have permission to carry the Bill, pro firma,
through a Committee, and , afterwards to present it to the
Howie with such ementithents as might be found adviseable.—
Thieehowever, bad been objected to by those who were op-
posed to the principle of the- Bill. The house were aware
that, in general, the tithe in Ireland fell upon the poorer cold.
vatore of the soil ; a circumstance which brought the clergy-
mehioto direct contact with his parishioner, and compelled
him either to forego the principal part of his income (derived
from several small sums), or exact the payment-of that Income
with apparent harstmess. There were other evils arising
from the mode of c•llecting the tythe, and the question was
whether the turning or the tythe into a .money payment would
not contribute very materially to remedy these evils.. He was
aware that in Ireland there would always be objections to the
!acid adminharatitm of parish altars; but this was no argu-
ment against their endeavouring, as opportunity offered, to
remedy this defect. Ile was aware, too, that as the Pill was
originally frame& it would be particularly difficult to form a
vestry. The qualification stipulated was too 'high ; for th'ere
were many parishes in which no person paid 51. tithe annually,
which was toe amount originally fixed. But, surely, this was
a defect which might be remedied in a Committee.. And ifany
lion. Member would point out to blin any elegible amendment,
he should most cheerfullyadopt it. The first object of the Bill
was, a voluntary adjustment, by bringing the interested parties
together. The objectiou of his Right lion. Friend, however,
was principally directed against the subsequent- part of the
Bill in which there were some -.compulsory clauses. He de-
neid that this part of the Bill sanctioned any invasion of
property. liThen the nublie good called for a forcible tak-
ing away of private; property, public justice called for the
giving to the individual a fair equivalent ; and dile was the