The Sun.
London, England, 1841-03-23 00:00:00

MORNING EDITION'.

a class question at all—it was a question of vital imports
a., e to the whole country, for all were must deeply ii.lit:
;.(:On'trghdt tihne
'Deed largely upon the credulity
thetio n
.w 011
Memberb ei r g
fur
the
Finsbury poor. —(Cl.e e; s . ) .'"
stated that he had heard nothing but mere abstrett u""
clamati.no in the speech of the Hon. Member for London
—that there was nothing practical in it. What ! was there
no proof of the practical effects of the new law in tie I'
of iste
creased a:tcntion which had everywhere been paid
,endition.
to the improvement of the moral and physical
state ef
ofhis
imentsrt,
rbisweherleice
of the peole tow their educati t the
their dwellings, nd to thoseon sanato ery questions
which had never been discussed until the care of the poor r
.
hal been committed t a public and responeible officers
The Reports of the Poor-law Commissioners showed that
under the new liw wages had risen, and greater attentive
had been paid to the moral and physical condition of the
poor than had been at any former period. Let Hon. M ein
bers lock et a neighbouring country, Scotland, where the
administration of the Poor-laws was not ends r the surf'
.
vision of some regulating power. He had gone o
ever tie
Scot ill capital in conapanv with an inter! gent and he
mane physician, and he dec.ared befete God that i
ter in
his life had he seen such a mass t f mi.( ry and ei. re.
l-ind'
Let them not talk of the hardship cf the law in Eets
it was nothing compared with the administration of the la°
in Scotland—there relief was doled out in frsctiens, ia some
instanci,s at the rate of 2'. 6!. a mooth. The pt,or 6er
uct.o.,g
f
were sinking tirJugh neglect, end throughout the
they were calling for some such superintendence as had
been established in England With regard to medical afitel
by the 54th clause of the Peor. law Act, in all cases .°
emergency, medical reli f night be ordered by kg,,",,
trates, without waiting for bcaols of guardians, or by '-
relieving officer. There never had been the same eena
of furnishing relief under the old law. There was now
_.l
system of furnishing medical relief ; under the oldl law_
there was none. The proptx way t ) discuss the Di. fro'
by comparing the old law will; the new one. relief Thfe
01.
again, it had been stated that all out-doortt
was refused; aid a great deal had been
of the hardship of forcing families into the workhomle
Now, the fact was, that tour-fifths of all the relief so:
given was really out .door relit f. If Hen. Gea.inie
wished for more, they had better abolish workhouses f '
103:
gether. It hid been staeed the: no ow-door re lie el
granted. Now, what was the fact ? At the present_er:
meat the number of paupers receiving in-door Teret Ws;
126,519, and the number receiving out-door reli f ,71 r
818,613 ; so that the greater part were receiving out-o O's
relief. Hon. Members, who had expressed their tin•ai-
probation of the Poor-law Bill, had adverted to some In;
provel system ; but they had net s'ated what that syslat,..
was, or how it was to be continued, without seine "PL.
intending control. Under the old Poor-law some I'o,
riches had exhibited an enlightened system of
wed
men;, but their example had not been followed ; ati.
there had been nothing to ensure the uninterrupted nefntbe
nuance of such entghtened systsm of management, for I tied
person entrusted with the management (Stile poor hetWeit„;,
to die, the parish relapsed into the old system of inisfii,o
nagement. Superintendence was the only 111;4 to 'the.
stability to any plan. —( Hear, hear.) lie defended s,
m Conicsion on popular principle:.—(Cherrto) It 5 ere
the only way in which a sufficient control could bce%e_f
cised ov, r the administration of five or six
money. If the Hon. Member for Fursbury tvOid roe
the accounts of the old workhouses, and visit the un ~...e
workhouses, he would be struck wits the favourable Om
tract presented by the latter.—(Cticers.) weethersti b
question was a popular one or not, was a Met err bad
which he had nothieg to do.—(Cheers.) Heine ve. noll
held, and he never would hold, a seat in that ouse tiro.
any such tenure.—( Loud cheese.) If he held the gat 0
tion to be right on prim iple, he hoped and trusted teat as
long as he held a seat in that House he should pars" Ibis
own inlependeet course, not that he believed that ortisrs,
occason he had any thing to fear in making- this (Wool
millionsera
Lion, for he tnough: that the great mass out of ecots
were possessed of greater intelligence than the ogeisieil
of the BM gave them credit for, and would re t be Iva 'Oll
by the sweeping imputations which had b ores cat gag
the suppott.rs of this. measure. lie was FertectLY ttitott•
to share with the Noble Lord the Member fA. ileri'ity of
beriend, nod I is lion. Friend the Memler for the ""0-0;19 •
London, al), unpepul itity which rrieht be thet.,o-revecii,
queries! of supporting a reerieve which he aerilY `Thietreo
had conferred 1...rg,r trle,,siegt en the poor and , eels- hei
greeter stability to the or, Fe ty of the .country tbAn
, '
ever bt ea brought fel-Nerd.— (Cheers.) to
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE entreated the House roil,
before they give one day lone er continuance tote, ut os
missionirs. Toe Hon Geetleman had defended ot ea
popular grounds. lie (Mr. T. 0.) a tacked "aloof
popular grounds, on grounds mo-t dear t r thudert, tbo
this country, the rig t to self-gevernment ti
„„009.
—( L
right
oo,fujecthnetreerls over) These vtere really popular egor th:•expendit ire ut the it ow 7,
n 000
and so they would be proved to be whenever $ tittierld
should venture to go t ) a-,other general elecliav•-;(or ee
ch e rs.) Neither the U.n. Member for Loodol2.y erl
Hon. Member for Lambeth bad bought force -u la' Al
guttent for continui .g the Commission five Ye4,7tiesen
their arguments we it to show the. it should be 0.0-i a, $4
in perpetuity, and they ought to Ia e i r 'posed Oa ft
e
amendment to the Noble Lord's 1 reposi ion' itefe3
Poor-dew Commissioners therm elves had reeornalfole
it in their Reports, and he theught flerfo-tbrif
Gentleea had sea-cely done them justice. d are
rn
Repott they stated in the mot modest 80 ,ci `reps
aiming way, that Parliameot was too much Og,' (1,7
other matters that it had not time to attend to tPbea, all
ref parochial legislation. It would appear frote,! oto •"'
Parliament did not think the people worth at eou'll'efffirg
(Oh, oh.) That they were so engrossed with the could
parishes,ni
oebt .
j uarti t
negn
and
todt s
t.
he
et, h. e
welfareTw♦•
ial They
yt s
aotfid t u'
comfortse'y e o
of the East, and of France, and America, that thehYOusa
portant that there should be some body between, d,birtira
went on t r state that lithe- par-
liament and the peoFle to issue orders in 8 'el, cat
form ; so that they were to have a kind of four' bile td
to legislate for the re epic, which dii not apPe"r tnebterre"
be very complimentary to Parliament. 114 -eat rev.
otfhimrtielen,nt;:so! :alba,
further, that the style adopted in Acts of Parliel tie red
dered them hardly intell,gible to persons wh ) a„„cesaj"
ceived a legal education ; and hence it WO -,-utsd te,
that some competent authority should be aii,q-1300%/0
expound the intentions of the Legislaeure.--44- et to'f
It did not appear, however, that these gentlemsoo o
very explicit in their own accounts and criers. , a te-def
the clauses were such as to bear one construett°The we-
and another to-morrow. But if such an autborybool
necessary in the Poor-law Bill, why should theY,n; WO'
a similar one with regard to the Municipal Bilsloweet'
were there not three Lord Mayors sitting at "ob thad
house, or a dozen itinerant Aldermen going tuhrabellevoet
country to expound the law ?—( A laugh) 00e--
the Poor-law would act much more setisfectorilY,,t Dav
the present Central Board. The lion. isnoa
both had asked what would be substituted. ead his of t'be
was, Leave it to the good sense and discretioet kieei
Boards of Guardians. Was it to be sail
at
night. ee
Members such as had addressed the House that Go
who had avowed themselves members of Bo2rda,eiciiot3 as
not to know how to expound the law,
dians—was it to be supposed that they were snel!, to n',o'
and that I" tied 1.,
ce,sary for them to have Assistant-Commissioetr that t"
their tells ?—( Hear, and laughter.) He brlisve of Fe&
seas the intention of the gentlemen end fdritierj if 117,e
land to administer the law carefully and ftir;ber tit,
were only left to themselves. Tie Hon. ; et, i%
Lambeth found fault with his Hon. Celteldterier•e;
Wakley, for calling the workhouses places cto the e
Why, they were nothing else, and in additien old
suer'
.
stances that had already been repeated, be ;totares4o.",l;
them a case from Yorkshire, in wh:cb Tbernaae priCo wi.i.
a mesterei the workhouse, was charged by Ser4" the' C 9
assaulting assaulting and ill using her; he was fined VP- hied 1b Orb,
t a•es, who, in pronouncing their judgmerar fl,atiou th t to
could not refrain from pronouncing their oP,.las teaene; to
defendant had not conducted himself ill sue" ;bt li'd to
he ought to have done; they thought be had retire"; of
have visited the female moms after the, Pa- e are,'" 0,
rest ; ncr should he have used the indelieatwas. Hop'
taking the pauper down t )tt:e cell naked as abtemsgig..te7oo
Members might thick nu thing of that, and t „ disc, be
added that t.e had not exercised
in beating
breast of the complainant, as he had rte the *\4ll/0
Let any Hon. Member read th it, and say thattor,) -be
a sounifet sitoitio.
houses were not places of torture.—( Heir, Ericad° to-elt
it any satisfaction to thepoor stollen or her ot thick
it 0 or
told that the master wasp fined 20s. ? He or 6°
bad' - 4/er
that under the old system anything hal ad bad,
f tbe Ir of
pres-ive, had been kill teed. He disapprevea ° 0 irlOrtad
conferred on the Commissioners, because it
case/r the ape
and despotic, and of little use. Loek at the :e., if; :Ca
beer, stated by the Hon. Member for Bridge" . se° el,
peered that dysentery prevailed in the woboustr3 ell •
fns ogoi G. 7 se
guardians wished to give the paupers rice ,s„,. se ati
They wrens to the Commissioners in (Wee:- 'that 7.,,d
crived no answer until April, and the result le belie;
cf the unfortunate pooplc lost their live Pi.„• aril
„,„ijoilC
the law would work well without the t'a—t .rieut ts
lie wished, at all events, to see the experimq _. q 0 e
so far as his vote went it would go to i•
1 01,
pensive, arbitrary, and despotic a system• the res 0,1
Mr. DARBY doubted very much oisseber
..estien 11‘,1.0
hion of the House could be taken upon the grou 11,issioot'llo
belcre it, as to the time during which the C°•.pnieg rf
shoe_ .eue.
were to be continued. He was anxious, by boo,jou
es,
time for the continuance of the Your-law the lel
in office, to give Parliament a control over
P° We r!
tensive powers they at present possessed a the re ht
Mr. HAMILTON was in favour of lireitinefie 00400
of the Commissioners to a very short p riod-
_irilaig se abo't
two years quite long enough. He was as ton _stem, ,4,
t old aj f tr'
discoutoue
other Member to return t , the es, 1: cf toe
_.,. out o
he was convinced that men would rather starrfoilier•ero
workhouses then pine away in them with the
Sir G. STRICKLAND thought that befeoroetotinheiiol,
required for the continuance of the Poor-law
good Oft
the Commissioners would have done all the
.• tla
expected of them. bsfore it,
Mr. VILLIERS defended the But i trade f°
House aeainst the anaelts relish
had bee"
01
especially by the Members fir c.nsburye ~f to
. f•
Mr. W. ATT WOOD said the advecaleo!
the u1d?,.)0.
were oblged to thrust in all the worst as, lsr
hair,crori;werly If
—(Hess, hear.) The
torn, il order to justify that. which was u"le. d boll I-oo
"r dire, c 2 ere t
le
.!. 0
given up, and they now rested ther
be old I= a t
the abases which had occurred under t
rn,_‘; ,„ersti_itf
was for restricting the powers of the Com
elb_opport P '
shorter period, that the House might have th
of frequent reeisi ov. pc iet c 1• ce nome ha sir evile
Mr. HUTTON supper el the dame. et.
• Mr. MUNTZ had heard no sufficient reeso; 00 teer
Mr. B. WOOD spoke in f
tending the Dn.'''. fthe reasons give a oPftir
...rs. 0 r.e o
evers• d by fis'nr ollY ,i
your er ":,,, amend': eior To
.....ement which would be cause
he same P ' Cow' .
duce them to vote she supplies for t . the a sot"
he heard some better reason for contooticog Le 001. to
sion lie would be quite at a loss to knowyb_snri:a„, and
period. That was an argument which sbudi,inoqd. ti_sity
Strangets viv re Vien otderecl to $ tv
136
For toe amendment '........... .......... I_,
..... 743_
Agsinst E ...• ............................ 9
House eivieci, when the e appeared—.
Majority ........ ...