The Sun.
London, England, 1824-02-07 00:00:00

THE-AUSTRIAN

JAMES begged to direct the attention-of the Right
Hon. 6ecretary for Foreign Affairs for a few moments to the
subject of, the Austrian Loan. 'When the Right Hon. Gentle-
man laid on the table a copy
.of a convention entered into be-
tween the Emperor of Austria and his Britannic Majesty, re-
specting the settlement of the Austrian Loan, he (Mr. James)
fully expected that it was the intention of the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman merely to submit that document to the House for its
sanction. But he had since ascertained, to his great surprise,
that the agreement had actually been ratified by both the con-
tracting parties. He wished the- Right Hon. Gentleman to
answer this queston—Whether he did not think that he had act-
ed illegally and unconstitutionally in advising his Majesty to
that convention, without consulting the House ?—(A laugh.)
—That might, perhaps appear to be a very radical view of' the
case;---(a laugh),—but he felt it his duty to state, that he con-
ceive.d the Right Hon. Secretary to have assumed a power
which even Mr. Pitt, in the plenitude of his authority, had
never dared to assume. If the Right Hon. Gentleman and his
colleagues--__.
Nr. CANNING said he would give the Hon. 3lember the
answer which lie required. The Hon. Member had asked
whether he (Mr. Canning) did not think that he had acted il-
legally and unconstitutionally in regard to the Convention, a
copy of which had been laid upon the table. The answer was
" Decidedly not." If the Hon. Member thought otherwise,
lie was of course at liberty to bring the subject before the
House ; but then he hoped that the Hon. Member would give
notice of his intention, and not proceed to discuss a nutter con-
nected with the privileges of the Crown, at a moment when the
House was quite unprepared to entertain such a delicate gum.tien.--{flear, hear !)
Mr. JAMES said, that he was not compelled to give a no-
tice, and as it was not likely that any business would come
before the House that evening, he thought the matter might
as - well be discussed at that time. He repeated, that he
considered the conduct of the Right Honourable Secretary
illegal. If Ministers had the right to give up the claim of
the people of England to a large sum of money justly due
v.: them, without consulting the House of Commons, then, part
rattan, they were entitled to levy taxes in like manna. It was
stated in one of the articles of the Convention, that his Majesty
was entitled to site the Emperorof Austria in his owrreourt for
the recovery of the debt. Had that been done ? He supposed
it was vary unlikely that any thing further would be obtained
from Austria, and he therefore hoped, that in justice to other
bankrupts, the name of the Emperor would appear in the Ga.
;....7.e1y:,--(Hes,r, and a laugh.)
FOREIGN POLICY.

Lord NUGENT observed, that since the House had, by
agreeing to the Address to his Majesty, sanctioned the policy
which Government had adopted with regardto Spain, he thought
they ought to be put in possession of the means of judging
how far that policy had been fairly .carried into effect. For
that purpose, he considered that the production of some papers
was necessary—namely, copies of all the correspondence which
had taken place between this Government and Sir William
A'Court, during the period intervening between the entrance of
the French troops into Spain, and the surrender of Cadiz; and
also copies of all 'communications made by the Spanish Govern.
•rn-ent to Sir Wm. A'Court, during the same period, with his
answers. He wished to know whether the Right Hon. Secre-
tary intended to lay those papers before the 'House, or whether
he would consent to their production, if he (Lord Nugent)
should move for them ?

:dr. CANNING replied, that he did not intend to lay the
papers alluded to upon the table, and that his vote, if they were
moved for, must depend upon the case which the Noble Lord
might make for their production.
Loril NUGENT then gave notice, that on Thursday next
lie would submit a motion on the conduct of Ministers with re-
spect to the late war in Spain, and with reference to thsir pro-
fessed neutrality_

Sir J. NEWPORT moved for Papers (the communications
which had been received by the Lord Lieutenant) respecting
the right: of burial in Ireland, as regards Roman Catholics and
Dissenters from the Established Church. The Hon. Baronet
anticipated no resistance to his motion, as he was convinced the
•
tranquillity of Ireland depended materially upon the question
to which it related. _

Mr. GOULBURN was always loth to appear to withhold
information; but the House would be aware that there might
be circumstances under which disclosure could only tend to do
znischief. He relied upon the candour of the Right Honourable
Baronet for giving credit to him (Mr. Goulburn) for sincerity
he stated his belief that the papers in question were likely only
to revive disputes, withou, forwarding the object which the
Hon. Bazonet had in view. The Hon. Baronet wished to repeal
the statute of the 9th William lIL, which applied to burials in
the churchyards attachad to decayed monasteries. He said no-
thing upon the main question—whether the statute ought to be
repealed, or whether it ought not; but it was an object which
could ro way be aided by the production of the papers in the
pons' on of the Lord Lieutenant ; while their publication
would certainly revive differences which were now in a way to
be forgotten.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT, since the matter was referred to
his candela-. thought it due to public justice, and to the people
of' Ireland, that the papers should be produced. If there had
been imprudences committed, let them lie upon those who
ought to bear them—upon that part of the episcopal and eccle-
siastical body in Ireland which had attempted to strip the peo-
ple of the rl.!,ht of burial according to the forms of their re.
ligion.-(Crics of " No, no," from the Ministers.)—Gentle-
men might cry " no," but he said that it was so. The notice
which he had given was not that which the Right Hon. Secre-
tary (Mr. Goulburn) had stated. He moved certainly to repeal
the Statute, the 9th William ; but he moved also to se-
cure the right of burial, generally, according to the forms of
their religion, to tie Catholics and Dissenters from the Esta-
blished Church of Ireland. When it was considered that this
question was of all others the most calculated to excite public
feeling, and that 6-10ths of tie Irish population were ixterested
in it, the House, he trusted, would go with him, if he pressed
the -production of the papers to a division.
Mr. GRATTAN thought it would be better to postpone the
question, and give a regular notice. The Gentlemen on his side
the. House were taken by surprise, not having conceived that
the Papers would be refused. The question was one, as he
viewed it, of the highest importance to Ireland. If it was not
soon put at rest, there would be no burial without an affray.
Mr. AktERCROMBY said, that of all the frightful ques-
tions which had been mooted in Ireland, this was decidedly the ,

most terrific. He se far went along with the Hon. Secretary
for Ireland, that if he thought the question likely to be settled
satisfactorily, he would not call for the production of papers
which contained an inflamed view, perhaps, of past disputes ;
but then, so far from seeing any disposition on the part of Go-
vernment to take measures of itself for putting the difference at
rest, 44 understood the Right,Hon. Secretary to suggest, that
what bad, passed had set it at rest already.
;An. GOULBIII.I.N. said that he was misunderstood by the
Hon. and Learneff Gentleman. He had. spoken only of par-
ticular difference* as in away to be at rest, not of the general
question:
__

Mr. ABERCROMBY.—But the Right Hon. Gentleman
still stated no intention on the part of Govornrnent to take
measures. And, under such circumstances, the House was
bound to proceed itself, and consequently to call for the fullest
information. The vital importance of the question was ad-
mitted. There were doubts upon it in every way : doubts as to
the law—doubts as to the practice. A specific coursely Par-
liament was necessary ; and he therefore should support the
production of all documents.
Mr. PEEL thought it would be well to separate the general
question (of burial) from the immediate question before the
House—the production of papers. Upon the general question
he reserved his opinion; but he thought that the papers ought
not to be produced.
Mr. CALCRA FT supported the motion. The documents
in question were not private; and the only difference was,
whether Members should obtain them personally, or whether
they should come regularly before the House.
The House then divided; when the numbers were—
For producing the papers - - 39
Against it . . - 56

Majority against the motion - 17
On re-entering the gallery, we found Sir JOHN NEWPORT
on his legs, moving for an account of church-rates, raised in the
sbveral parishes of Ireland (distinguishing.each parish) for the
last 12 years.
Mr. GOULBURN tiad no objection to the papers being pro-
duced ; but, to find them for twelve years'past would occasion a
great'deal of labour. Would not a return for a shorter period
answer the purpose ?
Sir JOHN NEWPORT wished to show the manner in
which that local taxation had increased, and how heavily it now
pressed upon the people of Ireland.
.Mr. GOIJLBURN said, as there were 2,500 parishes in Ire-
land, this would he making out just 12 times 2,500 returns.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT said that many parishes •were
united, so that the number returned for would not be so
_great.
At all events, where the right of taxing people existed, it was
fit the country should see how it was exercised The Hon.
Bart. then moved for a similar account of cathedrils consolidat-
ed into parish churches (under the Act of the 21 Geo. 11. c. 8),
which was agreed to. He also wished for papers made up under
the late Population Act, which he understood were ready to be
laid before the House.

Mr. GOULBCRN did not entirely understand what de-
scription of return the Hon. Baronet desired.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT wanted the number of baronies,
the number of houses, families, &c. The Hon. Baronet handed
a list, across the table, which, 'we understand, was agreed to.
Mr. GRATTAN moved for a Return of the number of Con-
stables appointed under the Act of last Session, and the places
where they were appointed, distinguishing these who were of
the Catholic religion from those ,of the Protestant. Also the
names of those who had been discharged or otherwise punished
for breaches of duty.
Mr. GOULBURN was not aware how the distinction could
be specified.
Mr. GRATTAN thought such returns practicable.
The motion was agreed. to.
On the motion of Mr. °RATTAN, Returns were ordered of
the number of Ceuirnittals in Ireland wider the Insurrection
Act.