The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-19 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, MARCH 19, 1847.

six months. The Government wore not aware of the effect
which this Bill would produce. He had taken a high legal
opinion on the subject, which made it perfectly clear to him
that it would interfere with the rights of parties living thirty
miles along the banks of the Severn, which had existed for
700 years. He had proposed a clause to obviate this injustice,
but the Admiralty would not take any notice of it.
Mr. \VARD assured the Hon. Member that no discourtesy
was intended towards him. The Bill did not emanate from
the Admiralty, but from the House, and was intended merely
to consolidate the clauses to be introduced into private Bil's
having no enacting power. If the Hon. Member would con-
sent to allow the postponement of the Bill till Monday, he
would endeavour so to modify it as to save existing rights.
The Committee was then postponed till Monday.
GENERAL REGISTER HOUSE ( EDINBURG H) BILL.
This Bill passed through Committee, and was ordered to be
reported.
The other orders of the day were then disp
House adjourned at a Quartor-past One o'clock.

THE NAVIGATION LAWS.
The Select Committee on the subject of the navigation-laws
met yesterday in Committee-room No. 2. There were pre-
sent Mr. Milner Gibson (chairman), Mr. Ricardo, Mr. Mit-
chell, Admiral Dundas, Mr. Hume, Mr. T. Baring, Sir R.
Peel, Hon. M. Villiers, Mr. Lyall, Sir George Clerk, Alder-
man Thompson, Hon. Mr. Liddell, and Sir Howard Douglas.
The examination of Mr. Browning was resumed.
By Mr. Hume—He thought the repeal of the navigation-
laws would tend to increase' the number of ships built in
Great Britain. Ile grounded this opinion upen the fact
that. the materials for ship-building would become cheaper
by the lowering of the freights for their importation. It
would not tend to lessen the number of ships built in the
North American Colonies, but in every other country he
thought it would. That amount of British capital which
was now employed is building foreign ships would then be
employed in building British ships. He knew one English
house, the firm of Peter Dixon and Co., of Gottingen, who
built Swedish ships;
but those ships were not able to corn
pete with our North American colonies. He believed the
effect of the repeal of the navigation laws would be to raise.
the rate of wages on the Continent to a level with those here.
He knew the effect of the late reduction in the import duties
on cattle had been to raise the price of meat in Holland
from 2d. to 3d. per lb. He thought a great advantage would
arise to this country, particularly with regard to the South
Sea whale fishing, if British shipowners were allowed to buy
ships in Holland and elsewhere, wherever they could pick up
a bargain. He thought this permission would not injure our
own shipwrights, because they would be repaired in this
country, in order to insure their being admitted into Lloyd's
books. The navigation-laws caused a great disadvantage to
the Australian colonies, as they prevented the colonists pur-
chasing vessels stranded on their coasts, which frequently
happened. The consequence was, that the vessels, when re-
paired, were sent to the Persian Gulf or to Cochin China for
sale ; but there was risk in both cases, as the vessels must
proceed on these voyages without a register, and they were
liable to be seized by British or foreign cruisers and treated
as pirates.
Admiral Dundas—Did yon ever know an instance of a
vessel being seized under such circumstances ? Mr. Browning
admitted that he did not.

By Mr. Baring—Though the price of meat had not been
raised in Holland, he did not know that the rate of wages
had risen ; for when he was there there was a great scareity
of employment. When he mentioned last day that the
Dutch East India ships refused to go to America for cargoes
of corn, he supposed that it was because they could not com-
pete with English ships; at all events, the fact was, they did
not go ; but he could not, of his own knowledge, speak to the
reason.

Mr. Baring—You told us also that in the China, Singapore,
and Manilla trade, British ships were preferred to American ;
will you tell the Committee in what particular trade the pre-
ference was shown, seeing that a British vessel is not allowed
to take foreign produce to America any more than an
American vessel is allowed to bring foreign goods to England?
Mr. Browning had heard several merchants say that they
would give the preference to English ships.
Examination by Mr. Baring continued—The average
freight of wool from Sydney to this country he believed
might be quoted at I Ad. The expense of pressing and stow-
ing amounted, he believed, to It. per ton, and that expense
fell upon the shipowner. The duration of the voyage
averaged four months. The average duration of the voyage
from Mobile or New Orleans to Liverpool was thirty days,
and the average rates of freight for cotton from these ports
was about Id. per lb. That the freight from Australia was
not much higher in proportion ;than the freight from New
Orleans, arose from the fact that ships went to New Orleans
in ballast, while ships going to Australia carried freights
both ways. He did not think that the colonists of Australia
had any great reason to complain of the present state of
things.
Mr. Baring—Would you advise a repeal of the navigation-
laws, distinct from what might be done by other countries?
Mr. Browning—Oh yes; my opinion is, that if we repeal our
navigation-laws, foreigners could no longer justify their re-
strictions by our example.
Mr. Baring—But suppose they do not become such easy
converts? Mr. Browning—Oh, they would find themselves so
crippled that they would be obliged to give them up.
Mr. Baring—But suppose they did not, would it not be a
disadvantage to our trade that our coasting, our colonial,
and our foreign trade should be open to every flag, while at
the same time cash country would keep to its own ships
exclusive advantages in coasting and colonial trade? Mr.
Browning—Yes, it would be a disadvantage at first, just as a
bridge interferes with ferrymen.
Mr. Baring—At first; but not afterwards ? Mr. Brown-
ing—We would build cheaper.
Mr. Baring—But in the meantime would it not be an ad-
chanthtse ?voli lNel)r..oßf Browning—aOh,
nations.
Mr. ad-
vantage e t
but we r eign
cannotm alterer
Mr. Baring—Would not it induce parties to purchase
foreign
American and other foreign ships in preference to British ?
Mr. Browning—lt might.
Sir Robert Peel What advantages have the North
American ports over British ports for shipbuilding, except
in the article of timber ! Mr. Browning—That is the only
ifference.

Sir Robert Peel—What is the difference in the price of
copper sheating ? Mr. Browning—There is a difference of
about per lb. in our favour.
Sir Robert Peel—What is the rate of wages there ?
Nir. Browning—Quite as much, perhaps higher, than in
England.
Sir Robert Peel—Then we have every advantage in ship-
building that is possessed by the North American States, ex-
cept in the article of timber ? Mr. Browning—We have.
Sir Robert Peel—What alteration could we make iu the
13w which would give the Briti,h ship-builder similar advan-
tages to the North American ship-builder, and which he does
not at present possess? Mr. Browning—Tkere is no altera-
tion required so far as regards the colonies.
Sir Robert Peel—Do the same observations apply to the
United States? Mr. Browning—No.
Sir Robert Peel—What advantages do the ship-builders in
the United States ports possess either in the shape of low
duties or of raw insterials? Mr. Browning—The raw ma-
terial, except in the State of Maine, is dearer in the
United States than in this country, and they labour under
a disadvantage in regard to the price of metal, chain cables,
anchors, Sic. - .

Sir Robert Peel—Po you consider that the rates of inmi-
ranee, apart from the stamp duty on the policy, are the same
in both countries? Mr. Browning—l think they may be
effected here at a cheaper rate.
Sir Robert Peel—Then, with regard to Holland, are you
of opinion that a ship of a given quality may be built here
cheaper than in Holland? Mr. Browning—The present
rate of wages tells much against the ship-builder.
Sir Robert Peel—But is not the trade between this country
and Holland entirely in our hands? Mr. Browning—Yes, it is.
Sir Robert Peel—And that is the best test of the state of
the trade? Mr. Browning—To be cure.
Sir Robert Peel—On a former day You
gave an opinion
that if the navigation-laws were repealed, the timber, the in-
surance, the copper, and the light dues, ought all to be abo-
lished, in order to give them fair play; do you mean that
there cannot even be a partial alteration in the navigation-
laws, whether as respects our colonial or our foreign inter-
course, unless there be a previous reduction in the duties you
mention? Mr. Browning thought that foreigners had an
advantage over British ships in relation to light dues, which
the latter were not called on to pay.
Mr. Villiers called attention to the fact that the question
was not answered.
Sir R. Peel—ls net the British shipowner interested in
having his ships built cheaply. Mr. Browning—Decidedly.
Sir. R. Peel—Suppose the nayi
gation_laws cause a heavy
freight on timber, would that be any advantage to the ship-
owner whose ships were not employed in carrying timber?
Mr. Browning—Of course not.
Mr. Browning—
Sir
To be sure.
Sir R. Peel—ls it not the interest of the shipowners gene•
rally that there should be low freights for
R. Peel—And so with copper ore? ?
Mr
those articles that are used in the building o s p .
Browning—Decidedly. that it is for
Sir R. Peel—Then it is not correct to assume
on these materials for ship-building?
thef bhi rin
s ging of
the interest of the shipowners generally to have high freights
eidedly. Mr. Browning—De-
Mr. Liddell—Would not the repeal of the navigation-laws,
by bringing the whole commercial navies of the world to
compete with us, lower freights? Mr. Browning—l think
we would then obtain a monopoly by our industry.—
( Laughter.)
Mr. Liddell—What 1 A monopoly on ships ? Mr. Brown-
ing—No doubt of it.
Admiral Dundas—Do you think there are fewer or more
foreign naval powers to contend with um now in peace or war
than when the navigation-laws were tirst passed? Mr
wereashreoPueladielliave a supply of
Browning—Our advantages are greater now than they were
then.
yMr. Browning—Be-
lishould'
Admiral Dundas—Aye, but are thienyimtsosrtezppolry loefssse?arnMenr?.
Browning—l think they are fewer.
Admiral Dun d a S—IN ou I d the
rt. repeal lborfetaalidedonutaotvbii navigation-laws
.3
addiAr.
Admiral
ir
oi therwanl
inp gu—nprotectiondlel‘tati,tsewi
feoi elaur
afnntl
hdtwshe,ava,ri ,
isnehrl countryoraywr
is
me:
owaw atPowers,
,rr
si
?a,
you
dhfacilitihes
naturalisation,nsßwritish seamen ? Mr. Brown-
o iseamen must be giVen up
seamen atheamveartkeet
Browning—Be-
cause,
1111'
genurlieee 'laffti tho
ntdhke
confidenceadtnifloaairytnitgthahetei
pressing
nr:lassiwiiig
country
t 1 1.
anndd feelt—heßs
give the
value for their services, and then there could be no doubt we
might man our navy to any extent.
Admiral Dundas—Suppose we had a •
and that this country ought to
war with America
would the men now in the American service come
,
to us? Mr.
Browning—Yes, they would. The American navy Is getting
extremely unpopular with our seamen.
Admiral Dundas—unpopular in peace, but very popular in
time of war. Mr. Browning—l question that.
Admiral Dundas—But suppose these men were capturedning—«'ell,
in war, what would become of them? mr.
Brow
I don't know what the Americans might do ning—Well,
.
Admiral Dundas—Suppose half our navy— (Laughter.)
with American seamen, when an American were manned
war broke out
where would our convoys be if these men refused
MAmericans Browning—Oh, I don't think the to fight?
would come
into our navy at all.
Sir R. Peel—You say that the wages of seamen
be raised front 21. ss. per month to the
Aamen ought to
31. ss. per month ? Mr. Browning— y American level of
ea, and with small
stored, such as sugar.
Sir R. Peel—Has your house tried the experiment
an increase ?—(Laughter. ) Mr. Brow • of such
occa-
sionally paid as high as 31. per month. Browning—I have
Sir R. I'eel—But if you were sending out
British port would you give more than the current rate of
a ship from a
wages? Mr. Browning—Of course not.
Sir It. Peel—Then how do you suppose it
the rate of wages? Mr. Browning—m possible to raise
only to a time of war. To man the nay; inremarks applied
you must give the market value of seamen. an emergency,
Sir 11. Douglas—By the repeal of the navigation-laws,
affording facilities for] naturalisation, Would and
n
of the State be endangered, ;by being 50 mueoiti, the safety
entrustedto these foreign seamen? M i
Dir. Browning—I think it would
to a small extent ; but except in the case of a ware with.
their own country, when they might be free fromsvl
the Scandinavian race generally shows an attachment to our
service. ,
Sir 11. Douglas—ls it not a fundamental rule of national
law that no subject can divest himself of his allegiance: Mr.
Drowning—Yes.