The Sun.
London, England, 1847-06-05 00:00:00

great satisfaction to the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet,
and he very much approved of the principles he laid
down. He differed, however, very much from the Hon.
Member for Dumfries, and the Hon. Member for
Southampton. He did not object to the punishment of
transportation, but to the mode in which it was carried
out. For a long time transportation was not considered
a punishment at all, and the consequence was most in-
ittrious, as it ceased to operate as a preventive of CriMe
As an Hon. Member said to-night, there were three par-
ties to this question—the colonists, the British penple, •
and the criminal—and the interests of none of these
were consulted. They had not less than from 20 0
30,000 convicts in this populous country, and, at: co
to Mr. Russell, there were convicted within the lest five
years, 108,800 persons. His opinion was, that those
who were sent abroad would be worse at the end of
term of expatriation, under the plan of the Government::
than they were before. He bad questioned managers 0f
gaols of twenty years standing—he had consulted ow
gistrates of the City of some considerable experience.--
the late Alderman Wood for instance—(Efear,
hear)—and he found that confinement in this
country had little effect, and what better would the
convicts be by being sent abroad, where a nbngie.
of scene and their liberty would lead them to free"
crimes ? But they would endanger the safety of society
by confining such an immense number of offenders 111
this country. There would be 30,000 or 40,000 prisoners
confined in the gaols of this country, but if there Was
any outbreak, the greatest danger might come. They
had not two large a number of soldiers in this cote.try
for the duties they were called upon to perform,
it would be necessary to have 15,000 or 16,000 additionwhic%
soldiers for the pie pose of retires,ing any outbreak
might ensue. But what benefit would there be in the third:
stage ? If they let men loose in their colonies, will
would be the advantage of the separate confieemen_
which they had under gobs? Then he wished to se:
some line drawn between those transported for sev.e...;
fourteen, and for a longer term. Many of the convicts
they hail sent to the colonies had conducted theinselve3
well; in fact, but for them 30,000,0001b5. of wool vial!
not have been s.-nt to this country. Therefore, the:a
so this!
sent system if carried out properly would, he conee'
answer well. To show that the confinement of prisone.
at home did not promote their moral reformation,•
quoted an extract from a report to show that the Ter
cct(linmtm. itltnalsLoivfcrcproilonii,naulsriinny:SacoptlearnioddwoafssVaseven per
of 51,000 prisoners, 32,000 males, and 19,00 yOlier si4eol/c;
ofs(ofmot
nr.
aatand under
drerfi 17
eg
e iyearsm weres of age had been c:liam:tted; 2,s';ce
visited Tothid fields committed,committed;ay ha
an
dd
informed
twice,ed im thrice,
person was confined there whoanhdada bpeeersnoncewoh3Ct:t" -
180 times.—(Laughter.) The diffevence betvveoed" •
the number of prisoners convicted in France :50f
thp g Englandre-commitmentsalieyws a3so not
emeeo
hrietn.
Ethanirhan
France
wasogOiuOmo3.o 1. Th e who'e
the
in England 33 per cent. This was a333spieurgcuelsn tr
di-nce, but still it was a fact. In London, the eaeree
re-commitments was 47 per cent., whilst the ayer.f.),
number of committals in the more distant and less p°'
pulated places was but 16 per cent.—(Cheers)---shP" of
that the removal of criminals from the dense
towns into the country was favourable te n.
rality. On the same principle,
ment •
principle was better than any opttehhreecreilks'ssa)..B'fir:ol3:
they could adopt. because the convicts were remove' asses
the contamination always to be met with in dense !level
of society.—(Hear, hear.) A man ought to be re duct,
from his punishment on account of his good to
andany hoethehresldysttheamt
theythis couldwould
abdeoPt He more retell°
alCO° than
l
thait
Captain Maceonochie had be n badleye°tail'esaidteedre; the
b
te
system had not failed, but it was owing' pct
conduct of his successor that such a teem'
had been spread abroad. Let them only re,riops,
ber what had been said by Sir George ,Y,:ves
namely, that on his arrival in the island, altlit'ug"
wholly unexpected, he found the conduct of the con
Ter,
orderly, and their demeanour respectful. lic)we ner
Captain Macconochie was recalled, without any Pre..iiiet
reason, and an officer was sent out who adopted failed,theol
system, and it was no wonder that the former obe
He considered, therefore, that transportation ought " Adj,
continued under a properly revised system ;
_Lc
colonial appointments should be filled with proempersons, the men sent out were generally those the
the Government were anxious to get sent salaryo for
country. He _had never objected to a proper
a competent person. but a high salary rendered there'll__
fit for duty. No min could stand a high 5113/17-to
(Laughter.) He would recommend the Governmettoa
reconsider their determination, g be sh _
support the Bill, he would proposeseveral alterations
the Committee.that
Mr. HAWES said that he was surprised to fled
the plan was exclusively regarded as it affected the ino,:t.ta
countries, and not with reference to the mischievous en.'ed
upon the colonies. There could not be a plan
"bad
to destroy and dig up the resources of any colon,' °llia
suever. The Hon. Baronet (Sir John Pakington) Pe.
referred to the system of transportation as being hee.be
ficial to New South Wales. He had also said that :bill
coi,ve.t should undergo the probation system in
untry. Why, that was the very proposition of
thet
Gove,tim. nt. The Howe should not for a moor t°
Suppose that the greatest efforts had not been n3ede
secure the strictest dincipline. Let them only turn
the re its which hat been made to the '-louse
fr
time to rime. Well, then, it they had given 15 )01"
succe-save ,_ff,rts by succeeding Secretaries of State teat"
these had failed, were the Government to be blamed fete'
re,eedy the evils of the whOle system, and if ‘.61.
endeavouring to introduce a new and well corsideral
prop :sition, such as in hii opinion was the present. fit•
was prepared
trose htoo sv,h,acsiwal.isscHotocthi.
mFreimenbdeothtehaMt eint,ber for
would
be more economical to adopt the principle of prit°
discipline at home than the mode in operation of dap
jog convicts keeping them at compulsory labour in
tuci
I penal settli-inents, acid employing officer:, to superinteer
1 the system there. One fact would for this purpose Seri
the
as well as a thousand. The reports from Pell
colonies described the population as ever n3ovieg frrt,
the court-house to the scene of punishm—s
and from that again to the court-house. Mr. .Vlilleetro
gentleman intimately conversant with these teatld
proved that the expense of 1,200 convicts for a Pep',"*l
of four years would be, if transported to the P,,:t of
settlement, 177,9001., while, taking the averan `o,'"
the prisoners in the penitentiary at hotnet uod,
number could be maintained for 85,0001. On the gli;ieat
therefore, of expense alone, he thought that a ei..therio
case was made out for a change in the system el' It
pursued with regard to the subject of transportati suc%.r.
was surrounded by diffieulties, but, on a full conci by
tion of it, he considered the modification propoee, the
the Government one which would be productive 0, the
best results, and would be less expensive te
country and more effective for the repression of er";d,,
He hoped that the House, seeing the difficulties
lattero
ing on the present system of transportation woul. °Pale
with her Majesty's Government in considering
VoldV be
present was the only practicable system that
carried out.
cawanotLdLOeu
Lord
ndhrr
ddat
be
;Ne
ac
II
ti Am,
RegistrationisHoyt tion of Mr. NEWDEGATE, the
debate
t)aßisTkßeurnai
was adjourned. citleSti°P
Ad"°'
through Committee.
NEWFOUNDLANaDfmteaGrk
would be taken.
The report of thisSl
This Bill went statementslßusks
to pei dl
jwntLhames repliedNono, Noble Lord which
POLICE
(scoteTnEehLeßtthoaNhene:tSaDhEdtc:jho.ssoetcußTßtriO:4l3elagrur:dirde.lejrrirewidigtoe
BURGH
Th
P.IGHWAY RA'
The House went into ComweOmhVioti
This Bill went, through Committee.rESßlLL.
STAGE CARRIAGES, &c. DUTIES BILL
Colonel SIBTHORP celled attention to the yen
crowded state of the omnibuses in the metropolis, vri-f,
brought up and !toe./
the cruel way in which the horses were treated•
many occasions he saw these vehicles crowded in tae
clo..est manner, while
draw the conveyances behind them, far less the great
number of persons.
the horses were scarcely able t°
Mr. PARKER stated that provisions were in the
Bill by which the Commissioners would be
empowered to deal with the matters to which the kW'
Member had referred.
The Bill then passed through Committee.
SOAP ALLOWANCES BILL.
This Bill passed through Committee. of
The other orders of the day were then dislvsaa
and the House adjourned at Half-past Twelve e'en:ok.

1 stela:
LIVERPOOL, FRIDAY.—The Royal Mai- al
ship Cambria, Captain Judkins, sailed to-day for Bostlvo.
Halifax, with the usual mails and a large number v
sengers. x/4
[ ADVERTISEMENT.]—DEBILITY AND WEA3110
EXTRAORDINARY CASE.—CURE BY HOLLOWAY'S nus.-----aolot
chell, of Bristol-road, Birmingham, was in that weakly state t
pali
to be able to dress herself, besi es which there was A c°2„rer
tarlewmaeyisygirile,avtliysidteedureased.
in the right side, preventing her lying upon it. She ,v":.37111,'
from head-aches, appetite and digestion very bad, and er
medical advice, but her case baffled the skill of all, and Ye:beatli
various
wNaotwer'intghipslal
permanen.at Pro'
surprise of her family and friends she is restored to
by the use of Holloway's Pills.—Sold by all druggists, and
where she he. 70 pi
fessor Holloway's Establishment, 244, Strand, L0nd01..../
places, where
ore she be the bet

ChOarnletshpe Clifton
a3rOkthinsuolnt.:Eat.l., of a daughter, Villas, ---
IRTHS. • Of
the wif
..iroodisds•
On the 31st ult., at the Parsonage, I b erne ry
am o
Berks, the lady of the Rev. John Bacon, of a son. grs.
Mashdlal--bcoarnie'.
On the 31st ult., at York-crescent, Norwood, StirreP
Sam Smih, of a son.t
inst., in Soho-square, s 011•
On the Ist inst., at Tottenham,
On thet 1s Mrs. E. Foster, of $
'Mrs. Cox, of a son. _
On the Ist inst., the lady of the Rev. Sydne Turner, 17:
sident chaplain to the Philanthropic Society, of y a daughter,
who survived only a few hours. Wird
On the 2d inst., in Torrington-square, the wife of Ed
Willson Crosse, Esq., of a datO____,!'°'
____.—.,----s'.

MARRIED.
On the Ist inst., at Hove, Brighton. Henry Oakeley, Lieu'
tenant, R.N., to Emily. Letitia, third daughter of the Iste
Colonel Trelawney, R.A.
On the 2d inst., at Hove Church, near Brighton, Frederiek
Dandas, Esq., M.P., to Grace, eldest daughter of Lady Grad)
and the late Sir Ralph Gore, Bar

DIED.
On the 26th ult., at Iver, Bucks, Richard Wicks, E5(1%,..„
On the 30th ult., in Dawson-street, Dublin, Sir
Poriu?"'"
Fitzgerald, Bart., of Crrigori, county of Clare.
On the 2d inst., Seliana, the wife of the Rev. Samuel Mme,
tin, Rector of Warsop, Notts.
On the 2d inst., at Eltham, Kent, Frederic, eldest son Or
Isaac Guillemard, Esq., M.D.
On the 29th ult., at Abbey-place, St. John's-woody Elizg'
wife of Mr. James Boyd, aged 23.
On the 29th ult., at the Rectory, Harttreet, Mark-lane
Egerton Buckle, the infant son of the Rev. -s
John Letts-

11.0
London: Printed and Published by MUILDO YOUNG, of ,t
•trand, Frinter, at The Sun 081ce, N 0.112, Strand, in tbe rTri
of the Sivroy, in Os County a ilLiddluez. Saturiair
1647.