The Sun.
London, England, 1840-01-03 00:00:00

Mr. Frost had passed. The windows were broken in
by the mob. 1 was in the Commercial Room when
I heard the firing. I remained there a few mi-
nutes, and then made my escape through the back
doer. On my way I saw one person breaking the
window of the bar with a pike. I saw, as near as I can
judge, about two hundred persons pass the window.
They were in tLe course of passing when I left the
room and made my escape. The firing was then still
continuing. I staid a few minutes in the room after I
had left the window, but I did not remain long after
that till I made my escape. I have known Mr. Frost
from my childhood.
Cross-examined by Mr. Kelly—l was from home
when Mr. Frost was a Magistrate, and was never per-
sonally acquainted with him. I have never visited him,
but he has been at my father's house. It was a little
after nine o'clock on the morning of the 4th of Novem-
ber when I went to the W estgate, and it was about five
minutes after that when the mob assembled in front
of it. I had not been out that morning be-
fore, nor in the night. To the best of my recol-
lection I had not been to • the Westgate on the
Sunday. I had not been out that day more than
usual. I had been to chapel in the morning. I had
not heard of any persons being taken into custody, and
being in the Westgate. I think I was at the West-
gate about ten minutes on Monday morning. I then
knew that some persons had been taken into custody
during the night. I was not in the little room between
the entrance and where the soldiers were. The last wit-
ness was with me when I saw Mr. Frost pass by, and a
remark was made at the time. That was the only time
I saw Mr. Frost. John Waters, the last witness, was
at the window with me, and must, I presume, have
seen Mr. Frost too. He and I did not leave the room
together. • I left first, and went out by the back door.
From the window through which I looked you cannot
sec Stow-hill. You can see the road that leads to it.
When we first went. into the room the shutters were
closed, and John Waters opened them. I left a gen-
tleman of the name of Clark in the room with. Mr.
Waters when I left, and no one else. I had never
known of any body of the military beir, assembled at
the Westgate before that occasion. Ido not know of
my own knowledge where the Magistrates have met for
a year or so before this transaction. They used to meet
at the poorhouse. (The witness was re-examined, and
pointed out on the plan the window from which he had
looked, which was the one next to Stow-hill.)
John Rees, examined by Mr. Sergeant Ludlow—l
live at Pillgwently. My father's name is Rees Recs. I
was, on the morning of the 4th of November, in com-
pany with another boy, of the name of Coles, about a
quarter to nine o'clock. I remember meeting a man on
horseback, riding past towards Newport. After hearing
what he said I went towards the Court-y belle. ma-
chine. I met there a large body of men. Mr. Frost •
came to the front of the mob from the hind part.
Coles and I were not together then—we were about
Ina a dozen yards apart. I had gone up with another
boy, of the name of Thomas Davis, and Coles was by
the meadows at the time. When Mr. Frost came to
the front I heard him ask Coles where the soldiers
were, and he said there were about a dozen of them
gone down to the Westgate. I saw a person
with a pistol in one hand and a pike in the other near
Mr. Frost when he asked the question and received the
answer. That person was Jack the Fifer. One of them
was on one side of the road, and one of them on the other.
The body of men was in the road. Jack the Fifer told
the boy to go on, and say that they meant to have
the Westgate by-and-bye to themselves. He said that
loud enough for Mr. Frost to hear him. The men
were then standing still. I heard Mr. Frost and Jack
the Fifer say, " March," and the men then marched on
in rank several abreast, the width of the turnpike-road.
Some had guns, some pikes, and some mandrils in their
hands. They marched until they came to the road that
turns up the Friars. I know Commercial-street and
Charles-street. One party went up the road that turns
up to the Friars, and the other went on towards Com-
mercial-street. Both those roads lead to the town of
Newport, and to the Westgate Inn.
Cross-examined by Mr. Kelly—The Court-y-Bella
machine is about three-quarters of a mile from the
Westgate Inn. The boy Coles works for a blacksmith
in Mr. Phelps's yard. I have known him for some time.
Mr. Phelps is a coal-merchant. I believe. 1 do not
know whether he is also a surveyor. My father' 'll.
Rees, was one of the special constables. He was not
with me at the time I speak of. I had. not been the'
machine more than three minutes when I saw the men'
come up. I had gone up stairs to see the Chartists
coming up. I suppose Coles had been there
about five minutes. He bad come up the tram-
road from Pill towards the Court-y-Bella machine.
Pill is about a quarter of a mile from the machine
where this took place. It was about two minutes or
less after the men had come up that I heard Mr. Frost
ask about the soldiers. The men had halted before he
came up. I should say there were some thousands of
people. They were hurraing, and made a good deal
of noise amongst them. They stopped at this spot
about five minutes or more. Coles was standing by the
by the side of Frost when Mr. Frost asked about the
soldiers, I ran on before the mob. I was not afraid
of them. It was about thirty or forty yards from the
machine to where the roads branch off. One road
leads to the Salutation and the other to the Friars and
St. Wollos's Church. I swear the mob divided there
and took the two roads. About half, I think, went one
way, and the other half the other. I saw no more of
him that day. I ran across the fields to the front of
Mr. Hopkins's house, at the top of Charles-street. I
saw my father there, and I stopped there while the
mob went down to the Westgate, until the firing was
over. I could not see the firing there, but I could
hear it. I talked to iiy father' about what I had seen.
After the firing was over went .down bytMr.
Ho
theWesp.,t-
gate, and went home, i?g
kins's house. was examined in the Westgate on the
eiien'ng nrthe 4th of November, and also on the sth
of November: I was sworn .beth times, and what I
said was taken down in writing. -I was examined be-
fore Mr. Blewett and Mr. Coles.
Re-examined—Mr. Hopkins is the head of the police,
and the constables were stationed at his house.

In answer to a juror the Witness said I distinctly
heard Mr. Frost, as well as Jack the Fifer say " March,"
to the mob.
The Jury here requested permission to retire for a
few minutes, which was acceded to by the Court. On
their return,

James Coles was sworn and examined by Sergeant
Ludlow—l live at Pillgwently. On the morning of,the
4th of November 1 was on the tramroad with Rees.
I saw a great number cf people coming up. They had
guns, pikes, and different other weapons, which 1 could
not distinguish. Some had one kind, others had diffe-
rent sorts of weapons. I did not meet a person on
horseback coming towards Newport. I came from Pilig.
wently, one part of which leads to Newport, another
part leads to the hills. I saw two persons at the head of
the men when I first saw them. They were moving on,
and shortly after I saw them stop. I know the
prisoner Frost. The men took up their station
abreast Court-y-Bella above the machine. I
know Jack the Fifer. I saw him there. He
had in one hand a pistol and something else in the
other. I saw Frost also. He wore a red cravat around
his neck. He asked me where the soldiers were ? I
told him that I heard that ten or a dozen were at. the
Westgate, and the remainder at the Poor-law Union-
house. One man came up from the crowd and said,
"We want the Westgate." Another said, " I want a
waistcoat, because it. is wet." They then halted
and began to show what they would do. One said,
" I would cut," and another said, " Mine is --
sharp." I did not hear them say what they would cut.
They were planning and standin,, together. I heard
to
stopped
me.wa wanted
man go
w downith a
C hUT cit, but
Jack the Fifer say, " March !" did not hear Frost
say anything. The men went on walking four abreast.
I know Stow-hill by the Friars. They made ms go
withthi-esmt r from
t the
Friars
they
stick went before me, and prevented me going away.
I only saw those who went down Stow-hill.
r 1:1,:,a gasottei.nhg:h 10
us e .
Cross-examined by Sir F. Pollock--I am sixteen
Years and three months of age. I was coming from
Pill for breakfast when I saw the people running nut.l
was g
to bpreililikffraositn ;IhtMulli James
smith's shop,
to
Iba
,nat the a
Pill.
we
That is about
three quarters of a mile from Court-y-bella, on the road
to Pill. From the middle of Pill it is just a quarter of
a mile. I now work for Mr. Phelps. I «•o-k for no
one. Mr. Phelps is an attorney. I work in his smith's
shop repairing trams. I stay at James INlullin's at
Pil:gwently.
Examination resumed—Mr. Phelps is a proprietor of
coal works.

Thomas Bevan Oliver sworn, and examined by Ser-
geant Talfourd—l am a printer, residing at Newport.
I was sworn a special constable on the Ilth of May
4th of Novem-
last, the time of Vincent's affair. Sir Thomas Phillips
near the West-
out nine o'clock
bgwaeatrse,
.thheelnorrtedhceeeriel:dle admydoeirrieoc
tOi
o takenn
s I‘flur oopnmad
atet
him alebe
in the morning. The place assigned to me to tnke
was at the hall-door, in the centre of the house,
I was placed just in the door, which was left open.
.
Special constables were placed the door and pas-
sage. Tho soldiers were then in the Westgate. A
quarter of an hour previously I saw them march into
the room. I remained at the door for ten minutes or
a quarter of an hour, when I heard shouting from Stow-
bill. The shouts appeared to come from that place.
In the course of a minute I saw some few straggling
persons coming down Stow-hill. Then a tremendous
number came from the hill, in front of the Westgate.
They appeared to be in advance of a body which had
not yet arrived. The men who were in front were
armed with guns and pikes. Some of the pikes were
well made, and others were not so. There were five men
abreast,and to every ten men there was a man with a gun
on the side next to the Westgate. I was standing at
the door-post when the men came round the corner, and
went to the gates of the inn, which I cannot say were
open or not. I can't say that the men attempted to
get in. The gates lead into the court-yard of the
inn. I know a man named \‘' aters. I saw him that

morning. He had a gun in his hand. As he passed
the window of the inn. he held it up in a threatening
attitude, seemingly pointing to the windows. Tie crowds
which passed the gates halted in front of the house,
and came up to the door where I stood. The first
man who came up was armed with a gun. Some had
pikes. They did not march up in order. The door
is about five feet wide. I heard one of those who came
up the passage address the special constables. He
said " Surrender yourselves or the prisoners.' I heard
the answer made, " No, never." Then the man with
the gun levelled it at my head, and I caught hold of the
door. In the struggle the gun went off about three
inches from my head and stunned me. I immediately
afterwards heard firing on the outside, and I afterwards
beard firing inside, which lasted for several minutes.
During the firing the men who rushed into the passage
pushed by me. The smoke prevented me seeing who
they were. I went by the back-door of the Westgate,
and out through the yard. I could not form any idea
of the persons who were struggling in the passage. It
was crowded. The people in the passage generally
carried some weapons similar to those which the crowd
had. The firing continued after I got into the yard.
I did not remain long in the yard I went home by the
back way and thus avoided altogether the crowd in the
front. 1 returned again that morning to the West-
gate. I returned in about twenty minutes. The
crowd was then dispersed. I saw persons lying dead
there ; two i❑ the front, and two were stretched at the
side. I know Mr. Frost.

Cross-examined by Mr. Kelly—l have been on
friendly terms with Mr. Frost. I never had much ac-
quaintance with him. My family was not unfriendly to
him. I swear to that. I don't know that my father was on
unfriendly terms with him. I never knew that such
was the fact. My father is not here. On the 11th or
12th May I was made a special constable. I did not
serve since that time till the riots, when I was sum-
moned to do so on Sunday night between eight and
nine. I don't know that others, previous to that hour,
had endeavoured to preserve the peace. I acted the
whole night. After twelve o'clock that night prisoners
were arrested. I believe the first arrest was made be-
tween two and three o'clock in the morning. Several
prisoners were taken during the night. They were
taken as Chartists. They were brought into the West-
gate. I saw some of them taken into the large room
nearest the yard-gate, and which is marked A. It is one
of the rooms with projecting windows. About six,
which was the last time I saw them before the mob ap-
peared, I savv them in the small room marked G, be-
tween the soldiers' room and the entrance. About six
I went up as far as the church, and went home and
about the town till nearly nine. I then went back to
the Westgate, and was placed with other special con-
stables at the entrance. The soldiers a ere going into
the house as I returned, about twenty minutes before
the firing took place, which was about nine o'clock.
It was about a quarter of an hour, as nearly as I can
say, between the time of my return and the firing.
During that quarter of an hour I remained altogether
in the entrance, looking through the door. There were
several other persons besides myself in the passage, and
the door remained open all the time ; it was never
closed at all. The first thing I heard was the hurrah-
ing previous to my seeing the mob coming. I was in
the front of the special constables, and the mob was in
ranks as they came round the corner. Waters carried a
gun and another man also carried a gun, who came up to
to the door. I did not see any person in particular who ap-
peared to be the leader. The depositions produced to me
are mine. I think they were made on the sth of No-
vember. The leader I spoke of in the depositions;
who said to us, " Surrender yourselves as our pri-
soners," I called leader there because he came up to
us. He was then coming up to the door. It was
not Waters whom I alluded to, but to another man
with a gun. (The depositions of the witness were
here read.) I believe the person whom I spoke of
in these depositions as leader is dead. I don't know
his name. Not one minute elapsed after the mob
came to the door, after they had been to the gate,
before they called on us to surrender. There was a
great deal of noise and confusion outside. I was quite
in front. I was alarmed, but cannot say considerably.
Notwithstanding those circumstances, I firmly believe
those to have been the words used. There might be
a variation of a word. They were addressed to me,
and fthqi.noan: was,- About .. a yard from me. They
might:; have heen addressed to the whole then assembled
at the' WestiAe.;- I don't Isnow who cried out " Never."
It, was sotne,,one -behind :me, and there was no one
there but,the ppcial. constablesn that I know of. The
firing continue about ten minutes. I know Vincent,
and that he has been in confinement since the Summer
Assizes. He was a Chartist. Others were tried at
the same time, and were convicted and imprisoned. I
have lived at Newport, but do not know that it was a
matter of notoriety there that complaints were made of
the treatment of Vincent and the other prisoners. I
am not at all connected with any newspaper here. I
did, after the riots, report some of the examinations for
a newspaper, but have had no other connection with any.
Re-examined—The party who called on me to sur-
render was a gun-length from me. If I have not given
his words quite verbatim I have given them in substance.
Many other persons in the mob had guns.
Henry Evans, examined by Mr. Sergeant Talfourd—
I am a saddler, living in Newport. My house is nearly
opposite the Westgate Inn. I was at home on the
morning of Monday, the 4th of November, standing et
my shop door. I had not in view Stow-hid ; but I had
in view the whole front of the Westgate. There is a
Mr. Daniel Evans Who lives next door to me.- He is a
tailor. About nine o'clock in the morning I saw a great
number of people coming down Stow-hill, armed with
different kinds- of weapons. From 300 to 400 came
forward' in front of . the mob to -ttio front of the West-
gate. -.They marched seven or eight•abreast. I give a
rough guess at their numbers. I noticed only man in
advance of the body, armed with a gun, who went up
and tried, the gates which go into the Westgate-3ard.
They were fastened.. from the inside. 1 could not
see the gates from my house, but he went up as to
go into them. Turned from them. The man came
back to the mob, and they were halted in front of the
Westgate. I next saw this man fire his gun into the
long room where the military were. The long room is
nearest my house. Iknew there were soldiers there. I did
not see any other person do anything at the window. I
then heard several guns fired, and saw the windows of
the Westgate opened, and I went in and shut the door.
I saw no firing from the soldiers.
The Grand Jury now came in, and returned true bills
against Thomas Moordock, Thomas Davis, Lewis Row-
land, and Samuel Etheridge, for conspiracy and riot ;
and against John Fisher, John Batten, jun., Edward
Jones, and William Pillinger, for a riot.
Cross-examined by Sir F. Pollock.—The long room
where the soldiers were had a bow-window. I shut my
shop about half-past seven o'clock, and about nine heard
the noise of the mob coming round the corner. When
the mob came in front of the Westgate Inn, the lower
half of the shutters of the long room were shut. Th;s
would shut the window up to about four or six feet from
the floor, so that it would be difficult for any person to
look over to see what was going on outside. The ground
slopes from the inn.
Re-examined—The body of men who came in front
were ten or twelve yards from me.
Daniel Evans examined by Mr. Mr. Sergeant Tal-
fourd—l am a tailor, living at Newport, opposite the
Westgate Inn, next door to the last witness. I was at
home on the morning of the 4th of November. My
shop was shut up. At that time I saw a number of
persons coming round the corner from Stow-hill. They
came round in ranks and halted opposite the large doors,
and when they saw those doors were shut they wheeled
round towards the Westgate door in front. I mean the
entrance into the house. They then wheeled tom,rds
the centre of the house, that is, near to the porch.
There were at that time hundreds collected together,
and it appeared to me as if there were still hundreds
coming from Stow-hill, and to fill the space in front. The
first man had asword. There were others with guns,spikes,
and pikes. When 1 used the words " spikes," I mean by it
that there were pieces of iron at the end of pieces of x ood.
The wood was tipped with iron. I heard one man say,
" In, my men," or " In, my boys." There was no firing
that I am aware of before this. I saw an armed party
tearing at the lower windows. They were tearing them
to pieces with their spikes, and some of them jumped
in. At that time I heard firing in the passage. I know
the room in which the soldiers' were. The firing began
from the mob on the front door. That was before any
one opened the window shutters. The shutters had
been closed up to the time that the mob came up. I
saw firing into the soldiers room at the time that they
were opening the shutters. The moment I found the
soldiers were in the room, which I did not know before,
I thought it was time to go. I locked the door and
went up to the top window, from which I could see every
thing. I believed the soldiers' fired before the shutters
were opened, but the firing must have been upwards, be-
cause they could not see the mob until the shutters
were opened. In about half a minute after the window
was opened one man was shot. Another man was shot
as he was going into the door. A third man was shot
at the pillar. who did not die for an hour and a half af-
terwards. The moment the first man fell the mob ran.
On his cross-examination the witness stated that he
did not see any man in particular acting as a leader ;
and also that the soldiers were firing half a minute before
any one was shot.
William Adams, park-keeper to Sir C. Morgan, de-
posed to his having on the 4th of November seen great
numbers of persons as if running from Newport. He
asked them what was the matter, but did not get any
answer. He shortly after saw Mr. Frost walking
quickly on the road in the same direction, and having
his handkerchief up to his face, as if he was crying. He
asked Mr. Frost what was the matter, but did not get
any answer. He afterwards saw Frost turning off the
road'to a by-place, into a copse-wood.
Sir Thomas Phillips, examined by the Attorney-Ge-
neral—On the 4th of November I was Mayor of the
borough of . Newport. I was so from the 9th
of November, 1838. In the course of Sunday,
the 3d of November, I received intelligence
which induced me to take steps to preserve the
public peace. I gave orders to the Superintendent

of Police to have special constables ifi attendance
I heard that there was fd he a movement from the hills
on Newport. In the early part of Sunday evening the
special constables were distributed aC t),ln three houses,
the King's Head, the Parrot, and the Westgate, which
arc the three principal ;nee in the town. They were
afterwards moved to the King's flea 4 and Westgate. I
consulted with Mr. Brewer and Mr. Edwards, the
Magistrates. In the evening I stationed myself with Mr.
Brewer at the Westgate Inn. (The witness here
pointed out on the map the room in which they had been
stationed.) I remained there through the night, and I
received intelligence of the approach of persons towards
Newport. I received communications so early as six i
o',:lock, and again soon after I got to the Westgate,
and up to daybreak. We sent out constables, who
were relieved from time to time, and they brought. in-
telligence to us: I sent out a person named Walker,
about six o'clock in the afternoon, and he came back
wounded about eleven at night. I sent constables to
a place called the Marshes. Several persons were
brought before me in custody. The Marshes are in
the northern entrance to the town, above the bridge.
More than a dozen persons were brought in custody of
the constables during the night. About twelve were
detained in custody, and the greater part were sent to
the barracks, but some remained at the Westgate. The
barracks are about half a mile distant from the West-
gate Inn. Same of the prisoners were in the room ad-
joining that in which the soldiers afterwards were. I
received intelligence of the approach of persons to the
town till between eight and nine o'clock on Monday,
from different points of the road, and at last I sent a
request for troops to the barracks soon after daybreak,
and in consequence thirty soldiers. I believe, were sent
to me under the command of Lieutenant Gray and Ser-
geants Daley and Armstrong. When Lieutenant Gray
arrived he formed the soldiers in front of the house,
and I requested he would march them into the back-
yard. There are two gates to it, through which car-
riages pass on the east side of the house. The gates are
in front of the street. I returned through the house,
and having gone into the court-yard, and coming
thence, I saw the military go into it. They were
formed in the yard, and I desired the gates to be closed,
and they were. fastened. I then took Lieut. Gray into the
room at the east end of the house, and said the sol-
diers might go in there, if he approved of it, as a pro-
per position. He did approve of it, and it was neces-
sary it should be ventilated.. It was ventilated, and
the soldiers were then stationed there. I soon after went
into the front passage, hearing the people were in the
(own, and I ordered the special constables to come in,
and the door to be closed. It was afterwards opened,
and given in charge of two or three special constables,
with orders not to allow any one to enter. I then went
into a room above the commercial-room, which has a
bow-window, through which I could see a body of men
passing the wing of the house formed in a column. They
were regularly abreast of each other. They were all
armed, some with guns and some with long spears or
spikes. I stayed a short time there, and ran down to the
passage below, and when I got opposite the bar I saw
the heads of the column in the doorway, or close upon
it. They were standing with weapons by their sides,
as they appeared to me. They carried them verti-
cally. I ran to the room in which the soldiers were,
and said, Lieutenant Gray load immediately. While
the men were loading I heard shots fired in one of the
passages of the houses. This was before the soldiers
loaded their pieces. I also heard the windows of the
soldiers' room beaten against from the outside. The
lower half of each shutter was closed, and I heard the
noise as if the shutter was violently pushed against,
and the glass above broken. The shutters were closed
before the soldiers were placed there. I saw they could
not act in consequence when they had loaded. Shots
I think had been fired at them. I believe Lieutenant
Gray opened the middle shutter of the window, and
I opened that to the left, and I felt my left arm benumbed,
and saw two holes in my trowsers, and saw I had
been wounded in the hip,' from shots fired outAitle.
I understood the wound in the arm was made by slugs,
and that in my hip by a ball. I saw Sergeant Daly
afterwards wounded. I was wounded before the
soldiers fired, and in the act of opening the window.
The soldiers fired into the street, and into the pas-
sage. I saw one dead body of a rran, who fell close
to my feet. None of the townspeople were killed, but
some, I understood, were wounded. I think the firing
did not last more than ten minutes. Lieutenant Gray
knew I was wounded, as I mentioned it to him imme-
diately, but I do not know if I told him before the sol-
diers fired. The special constables had not guns. They
had only staves to my knowledge. As far as I know,
peace was soon after restored, but I was obliged to give
up the charge of the town to others. The wound in
my arm was severe. The other was a flesh wound. I
did not leave the room till the affray was over. The
present Mayor (Mr. Hawkins) was with me all night
giving directions. The night was wet and windy. I
saw some of the arms which were collected.

Edward Hopkins examined by the Attorney-General
---I am Superintendent of the Newport police. I have
got some arms.—(Several mandrils and pikes, and one
gun and, a sword were here produced.) Ido not know
of my own knowledge where they were picked up.
Examination of Sir T. Phillips continued—The
weapons I saw with the men at the Westgate from the
window were similar weapons to those now produced.
Cross-examined by Mr. Kelly—Now, Sir T. Phillips,
will you allow me to ask you what is your business or
profession ?—I am an attorney.
And in partnership, I believe, with Mr. Protheroe,
who has been sitting there ?—I was till the end of the
last year.
-For many years, I believe ?—Since June, 1824.
Have you bad any other business or calling than that
of an attorney ?—I have an interest in some mines.
Now, I observe, Sir Thomas, in this long account
you have given, you have never once mentioned Mr.
Frost's name ?—I have not.
Allow me to ask if you know Mr. Frost ?--I do.
How long have you known him ?—For a period of 17
or 18 years.
Were you well acquainted with him about the time
the Reform Bill was in progress ?—Yes, I was.
Previous to that time had you been on good terms
with him ?—I had known very little of him. I had had
no personal intercourse with him of any kind.
Had your firm any dealings or transactions with him?
—None at all.

Do you know whether there were any differences be.
tween him and Mr. Protheroe?—Tbere had been.
Did these differences continue till near about the
period of the Reform Bill ?—I think not. There was
an action brought against him by Mr. Protheroe, and
there were two indictments against him for libel, but I don't
know when sentence was passed ; but I am not aware
of anything having taken place between them since 1824.
New, about the Reform Bill did you yourself become
more particularly acquainted with Mr. Frost P—l met
him in public.
Had you met him, among other occasions, at public
meetings ?—I had.
You had an opportunity of observing his general
conduct during that time ?—I had.
I need hardly ask you, but about the Reform Bill
was there a good deal of excitement in Newport as in
other places ?—There were public meetings held at
Newport on the subject.
Was there a good deal of excitement?—There was
a good deal of interest felt.
Was there not a good deal of excitement at the time ?
—I would say there was excitement.
You say you attended public meetings about that
time ?—I did.

Have you attended meetings at the sam house as
Mr. Frost ?—I have seen him at meetings at which I
have been present.
I believe from that time to this Mr. Frost has taken
a prominent part in polities, and at public meetings ?
lie has.

Have you yourself done so ?—Not very prominent.
Did you at the time I have alluded to ?—I at-
tended a few public meetings, and on two or three
occasions took part.
I must ask you, Sir Thomas, whether you yourself
had not at public meetings, or at a public meeting, de-
clared that the majority of 1837. in the House of
Lords. deserved to be guillotined, or to that effect ?-
-Certainly not.
And you say not to that effect ?—I have not.
At a meeting at the Guildhall, at Usk ? Did you
not attend such a meeting ?—I did. The High Sheriff
presided.
We must go by steps. I ask you if you did not then
publicly make some observation concerning that majo-
rity in the House of Lords ?—I may have done so.
Did you not, in fact : I ask you on your oath ?-1
you didbelieve I did.
believe I did.
I have not.
HHaavvee
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Now, will you tell use what you did say ?—I cannot.
Did you make any observations importing what that
majority deserved?--To my recollection I censured the
majority, but, so far as my recollection goes, I did it in
no offensive terms whatever.

Now I must ask you, did you say anything as to their
deserts ?—I believe I did not.

Or what you wished they might meet with ?—I be-
lieve not.

Now try and recollect yourself, and tell me whether
you did not say something to this effect,—that you
wished they might meet with the fate of certain parties
in France ?-1 believe not.

---.-- - - --- - - ____
Did you make any allusion to any parties in France ?
—I believe I alluded t) what had occurred in France.

Did you not allude to the predecessors of the present
King of the French ?—I may have done so, but I have
no recollection whether I did or not.
Did you not make an observation respecting this ma-
jori;ty of 1837, in connexion with the fate of those per-
sons ?—I believe not.
IV ill you undertake to, swear you did not ?—I will
not, hoving no recollection on the subject.
Wer eyou then a Magistrate ?—No.

Or a Mayor?--No.
You have been present at public meetings with Frost ;
did you see anything reprehensible in his conduct ?—I
have diCered with him, but I saw nothing reprehensible
in his co uduct at such meetings.