The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-13 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF LORDS, Feb. 12.
Their Lordships met at the 118114 hour.
Earl FITZ WILLIAM gave 110“
that, on Monday,
he should present a petition from the Rev. A. Jordan, of
Gloucester, praying that an addition might be made to
the number of Bishops. The Noble Earl presented a
petition from a place in the
West Riding of Yorkshire,
praying for the repeal of the Poor Removal Act.
MESSAGE FROM THE COMMONS.
Messengers from the Commons brought up the Desti-
tute Persons (Ireland) Bill, and the Brewing from Sugar
Bill, which were read a first time.
LAW OF SETTLEMENT.
Lord WALSINGHAM presented a petition from a
board of guardians in Norfolk against the law of settle-
meat, passed last session.
IRISH DISTRESS.
Lord MONTEAGLE presented a petition
_ from a
meeting of ratepayers is the county of Westmeath, over
which the high sheriff presided, representing the great
distress existing in that country, and praying their
Lordships to adopt speedy and effective measures for
their relief.
CLANWELLIN AND SHANID (IRELAND).
Lord MONTEAGLE said he now rose to move, ac-
cording to notice, for copies of applications made to the
Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland, on behalf of residents in the
baronies of Clanwellin and Shanid, praying for a division
of those baronies, for the purpose of holding special
sessions, under the 9th and 10th Vict., c. 107. He
hoped he would not be understood as complaining of
the course which had been adopted on this subject by
the Irish Government, who had no doubt pursued the
course in this particular instance which appeared to them
to be right; and all that he meant now to do was to
move for certain papers which alight form the basis of
certain observations which he thought were required in
afterwards bringing the subject before their Lordships.
He begged to remind their Lordships, that under the
Labour-rate Act of last session, there was a power re-
served to the Government, by the 18th clause, to
enable them, if they thought it necessary, to
divide the parishes which appeared at present to be
too large. He said that clause had been specially in-
troduced into the Bill for this purpose, when it was
under debate in the other House of Parliament. It was
then felt that some of the baronies in Ireland, like the
ridings of this country, were become so large that it was
next to impossible to administer the Labour-rate
Act, and that was the special reason for introducing
the clause to which he had alluded. In two cases ap-
plication had been made to the Lord-Lieutenant that
this clause might be put into effect, but the Irish Go-
vernment had thought fit to refuse these applications.
Me would only remark further his hope that whatever sys-
tem their Lordships might afterwards adopt, they would
take care what baronies and parishes they united together.
From these considerations he had come to the conclu-
sion, that the greater the distress the greater would be
tho difficulty of ascertaining correctly how the hoe was
administered. At present the Labour-rate Act was in-
operative. If they extended their electoral divisions
they would subject themselves to all sorts of fraudulent
applications, and they would be called on to decide upon
works of consideration, but of which they had no per-
sonal knowledge. The consequence of this, as was
already shown, was, that in the larger districts they were
but imperfectly done, while in smaller districts they
were well executed. This was a most important subject
for their consideration. When the Pour-law for Ireland
was passed a Noble Lord who was not then in
his place, introduced a clause. The object of the
Noble Lord's clause was to give the possessors
of property in Ireland as much of the management of
their estates as possible, and to make it the interest of
the landlord to look atter that of his tenantry. This
would effect a most desirable object, and where
it was carried out there was a decrease in
the pauper population, while in those where
the divisions were large there Wa.s an augmentation of
the pauper population as well as an increase in the poor-
rates. The subject had been tried fur several years, and
was brought under the consideration of a Committee of
their Lordships' House, and after the most mature deli-
beration, the principle for which he contended was agreed
to. With respect to interfsring with the privileges ofl
the other House in the discussion that might arise, he
did not think it should operate. lie would conclude ley
moving that the papers to which he referred should tie
produced.—The tuotion was agreed to.
The Marquis of faNSDOWNE was glad that the
Noble Lord disdained making any imputation to her
Majesty's Government, but even it' he had done so, lie
(Marquis of Lansdowne) would not obj, et to the pro-
duction of the paper. However, the Noble Loid !tad
candidly avowed that he made no such imputation. With
regard to the other points referred :o by the Noble Lord,
such as the apportioning of the rates, and the dividing
the districts over which they were to be
he thought that, when the Bills with which these
questions were mixed up were before their LerddeP
that would be the best time to discuss them. In addition
-;
to the papers moved for by the Noble Lord, he would
suggest that the answer of the I..rd•Lieutenant to tee
application, and all the correspondence that had taken
place on the subject of the baronies, should be also laid
on the table.
Lord BROUGHAM concurred with the observations
that had been made, with regard to the propriety or re-
taining what was called the Duke of Wellington's
clause. With regard to abstaining from diFcuasiou on
these points now, he thought it was most absurd. They
should not do so, from any affected regard to keeping
inviolate the privileges of the other House. The reason
why he was of this opinion, with regard to the petits
in question, was because the rating principle was of the
greatest importance, and gave the distinctive feature to
the Bill. There I,was a minute system of inquiry
adopted in Scotland before any relief was extended,
and jthis had a good effect; but of the twenty-three
questions proposed to the applicant, there was one to
which he objected—namely, the 17th, which inpired to
what place of worship the applicant for relief belonged.
He (L-)rd Brougham) had known this to operate most
injuriously, for Catholics had often been refused relief
after the answers to this query. Ile objected to all such
questions, for churches and sects, were all very well in
their place, but they had nothing to do with questions
involving the dispensation of charity. They could
dress their dinners on Saturday, but it did not matter
whether they were dressed on Sunday or Saturday, but
it did matter very materially whether this facility were
allowed for Sunday or not. He had his information
from a most respectable person, that a physician who
was called in to the assistance of a person
who was dangerously ill, was unable to travel
without the payment of an extra price. In America he
knew that among some of the most religious people in
the world—he meant the Pilgrim Fathers, who formed
a large and important body in the north and west of
America this convenience was not denied. In Scotland
too, which is distinguished for its high religious feeling,
he knew that in many places it was the custom to keep
the shops open in order to supply those necessaries
which were absolutely requisite, and he thought that
it would be much wiser to adopt this principle on rail-
ways. He thought that these persons were the great
cause of the violation of the sabbath. No man felt
more deeply than he did the necessity fur rest from work
on the sabbath, but he believed that no other persons
were such great violators of the sabbath as those, who
by their conduct contrived to render the sabbath un

popular.
Earl FITZ WILLIAM thought that the most impor-
tant consequences to be considered on this, was not the
travelling of a physician, but that the business should so
be managed as not to do away with the confidence which
was felt by the proprietors of landed property, he meant
the substantial landed proprietors, in the right ad-
ministering of the rates. It was of the utmost import-
ance that there should be a confidence created between
the town and the rural electoral districts. They ought
to consider the two as one. He was sure that nothing
bettercould be done than to induce the inhabitants of the
town& to feel that the rates levied for the relief of the
...r were properly administered in the ruraldistricts,land
..at the inhabitants of the rural districts should feel
that the rates levied were properly managed in the towns.
He said the: reasonableness of that would p
pearfr
om a case of the following kind:—lf they il
suffereda
poor but populous town—populous, he meant, in paupers
—to have a rural district adjoining —a district which he
would call well managed, where the rate for the relief
of the poor was low—the effect which an act like that
supposed should hare, would be to release the rural dis-
trict from contributing to the relief of the poor of the
town ; and again to impose on the town entirely the re-
lief of their own paupers, which would effectually take
away all the interest that the country would have in the
relief of the town poor, as well as the interest which the
town might have otherwise expected to have
in the poor assessmtnt of the country, because such dis-
trict would be entirely interested in the relief of their
own poor. That was his urgent reason for saying that
the district allotted in a system of poor assessment
ought not to be narrow or confined. He said he had
heard with pleasure the remarks of his Noble Friend,
the Lord President of the Council (the Marquis of Lans-
downe), but he would have heard him with still greater
satisfaction, if he had expressed himself plainly and
definitely on this, that their Lordships would deal with
this measure when it came up from the other House of
Parliament, whatever might be the form in which it
came before their Lordships—that they would deal with
it freely and fully as they might think should be neces-
sary.—(Bear, hear.)
Lord MONTEAGLE begged to add the words sng-
tested by his Noble Friend to his motion.
The motion was then agreed to.
The Marquis of WESTMEATH said, it gave him
great
pleasure to confirm the views adopted. and advo-
"ted by his Noble. Friend, as to the injustice and evil
ofteTnheaurisairngufrom ill-assorted divisions of the baronies.
an humble talcildareof LANSDOWNE begged to move that
praying that she
ssishould be presented to her Majesty,
their Lordship's table graciously order to be laid on
Lieutenant of Irelaneda co"
of the letter from the Lord
to the home Secretary, on the
distress of Ireland.
Lord BROUGHAM said he would postpone the
motion, of which he had notice for Monday, till
Thursday next, that nothtven miffs interfere with the
second reading of the Destifuterni
might take leave to (Ireland) Bill.
As he had risen, he
ence to the subject under notice for Mit,oe'aY, in refer.
ovil arising from the influx. of Irish
pool had actually increased. On Sunday labtatt
paupers into that the
been an immigration of 2,100 persons, and the dal.; 141
lowing as many as 2,200 had landed from Ireland. -
BISHOPRIC OF ENGLAND AND WALES.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE begged to lay
copies of
commissions made by her Majesty's Govern-
went, as well as a correspondence on the subject, for an
inquiry into the state of bishoprics in England and Wake.
The Noble Marquis begged also to call the attention
of the House to a matter of a personal nature, and which
related to some members of the Church of England. Ile
alluded to the Dean and Chapter of Manchester. Cer-
tain imputations had been made by the Noble Lord op-
posite, which were calculated to be detrimental to the