The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-05 00:00:00

POOR REMOVAL ACT.

the right to bear the exclusive blame and the whole re-
sponsibility of it. It was not his intention to make any
very leggthened preface, or to enter into a general dis-
cussion as regarded the state and condition of Ireland ;
suffice it for him that there was a great class at that
moment in that country, amounting to 500,000 able-
bodied persons, existing on the funds of the State ;
there were 500,000 able-bodied persons, com-
manded by a staff of 11,589 persons and
employed upon works which had been variously de-
scribed as works worse than useless; by the yeomanry
of Ulster, as works producing no public good ; and by
the Government inspector himself, as works which could
answer no other principle but to employ the people.
It was true that a great calamity was over-
coming Ireland, but at the same time he could
not look with anything like despondency upon the pre-
sent state of the country. In former times this had
risen from difficulties heavier than these, and they ought
not to be appalled at the present calamity. In a period
of war they were enabled to expend upon an average
of forty years one hundred and three millions a year ;
and they ought not to be downhearted at having to pro-
vide for a deficiency which was estimated at ten mil-
lions. —(Hear, hear.) He expected with confident hope
that good would arise eut of the evil ; and, so far from
lying down and weeping over their misfortuncs, like
children lost in a wood, they ought to look
the difficulties fairly in the face, and be resolved and de-
termined to overcome them. He could not forget that
England had had her bad days as well as Ireland ; that
they had known the time when the counties of England
were ravaged by the fires of incendiaries ; that they had
seen England in a time when the Sovereign dare not go
to his own city of London. He could not forget, that
in later times, so little while ago as the year 1842, the
parish rates of England supported 1,437,000 persons,
of whom no less than 83,0001:were young, able-
bodied men, who were actually confined within
the walls of the workhouse, and 47,000 able-
bodied labourers were sustained by the parish.
Well, then, it appeared to him that when they came to
estimate the situation of Ireland, and compare it with
that of England, there was not so great a difference be-
tween Ireland at the present time and Eng-
land in 1842, and they should not despair
of overcoming their difficulties. The years
1841 and 1842, then, being periods of great
distress and great difficulty, what had occurred to
change the face of affairs since then in this country—to
prevent Government from meeting the distress as then,
and restoring the kingdom to the most prosperous
and affluent condition that ever was known? He was
aware that there were many who ascribed all this im-
provement and prosperity to the operation of those
measures of free trade which were commenced in 1842;
and that, by the reduction of one-sixteenth of a penny
the introduction of some tons of sugar, and the free
admission of feathers was the sole cause of the
prosperity which they were now enjoying. But he
for one was more disposed to ascribe it to
the railway enterprise which arose about that
period of their history. When they recollected
that in the last three or four years about thirteen millions
had been spent in the construction of railways, and
besides, as he could state on the authority of the reports
of the Committees of that House, that 200,000 able-
bodied labourers received employment at twenty-two
shillings a week, which had been culled from the
workhouses, and parishes—he thought he had certainly
discovered the more correct cause for the change which
had come over the circumstances of this country.
But this he might say, that there had been no inquiry
by Parliament made in which the result has not been the
recommendation that the difficulties in Ireland should
be sought to be overcome by the stimulation of
the employment of the people.—(Hear, hear.) In
the year 1836 there was a commission appointed
by her Majesty's Government to inquire into the advan-
tages of a system of railway communication in Ireland.
The result of that inquiry, made by those able commis-
sioners, was a report recommending that a system of rail-
ways should be carried out, and that it should be done
by the assistance of the Government—(Hear, hear.)
He woald not tire the House by travelling over the
beaten ground or repeating the reasons on which that
able Report was made, or inform it of the perfect success
which had attended every grant by Parliament for
the improvement of roads in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.)
That report was followed up by another—the report of
Lord Devon's Commission, which stated that it was the
opinion of the commissionett that assistance by
way of loan from Government for railways was the
best means for finding employment for the people.
This led him to the consideration of the
existing state of railway enterprise in Ireland, and he
found that there had been passed Acts of Parliament
for 1,522 miles of railway, and although some of these
Acts have passed so long since as eleven years ago, 123
miles of railway have alone been completed, and
164 more are only in course of completion in the present
year. This must prove to the House that there is
some weakness, some debility in Ireland, which
prevents them from carrying out those enterprises
which in England and Scotland caused the completion
of 2,600 miles of railway, and had caused new Acts to
be passed for 4,600 miles more. Was it the circumstances
of Leland, or the state of the population, which made
hers a condition not likely to prove advantageous to
railway speculators?—far from it. A report for which
he was indebted to Mr. Stephenson, said that the popu-
lation of Ireland and the population of England and
Wales were, as nearly as possible, on a par. In Eng-
land it appeared, taking the census of the
year 1841, there are, for every two acres and a bit,
one individual of population, whilst in Ireland
u55,...-s-ssma-ti,,___ernennls to one for every 21
there were 7,000 acres of waste bogs, and ilso—large
quantities of water in Ireland, taken into consideration,
and therefore, if they were to compare the cultivated
acres of England and Wales with the cultivated acres of
Ireland, they would find that the balance was in favour
of that conntry, and that Ireland was more densely in-
' habited than England and Wales. Now, perhaps, they
would tell him that this might be a very good argument,
as far as population was concerned, but what
was the use of the population if they had no
money to pay for their conveyances by railway.
His Right Honourable Friend who sat beside
him would tell them, that in all railway speculations
population I was held to be the first element of success
and if they told him that the population of Ireland
were incapable of travelling from want of means, he
must answer them with the fact that it was not
so.—(A laugh.) For by a return which he had there,
and for which he was indebted to the industry
, of Mr. Laing, he found by comparison that the number
of passengers who travelled by the Irish railways, as
compared with the number of those who travelled
either by the English or Scotch railways, far exceeded
them in number. The House might be surprised, but
the fact was that whilst on the Scotch and English rail-
ways the average number of passengers travelling
every month was about 11,800, on a railway in
Ulster the number travelling was no less than 21,700,
and on the Drogheda and Dublin Railway the number
of passengers was 18,000 per mile. But he would take
these two lines which were completed, one of which, the
Ulster Railway, might be taken in Ireland as the London
and Birmingham of England, and he would
compare the number of their passengers with
that of the London and Birmingham line. By the two
former the number of passengers per mile, for one
year, was 1,111,000, and by the latter, 1,108,000,
the former being only fifty-six miles in length,
while the latter was double that distance.
This he thought gave a flat denial to the argument of
Irish railways being a ruinous speculation. He might
be asked, then, why it was that speculators did not
come into the market to stimulate railway
enterprise? He was unable to. answer the
question, but the fact was as he stated. There was a
feeling of distrust and ignoraace, he feared, as to the
condition of the country, which prevented English
capital from being embarked in these undertakings. Of
the Great Southern and Western Railway 56 miles had
been completed, and as yet it had only opened for
passengers. Of the North British Railway and its
branches 72 miles bad been completed, which
were partially opened for traffic as well as passengers.
Well, the result was, that the traffic per week of the
Great Southern and Western Railway in the last week
was 1,0281. on 56 miles of railway, while on the North
British Railway, which cost 26,3001. per mile, against
15,0001. per mile, the cost of the Great Southern and
Western Railway, the amount of traffic exceeded that
of the Great Southern and Western only by
339/. per week. Yet so opposed to all principles
of common sense were the feelings of capitalists
as regarded public works in Ireland, that the
Great Southern and Western, which was undoubtedly
the most profitable concern, was at 2i per cent. discount
in the money market, while the worst railways were at
40 per cent. premium.—(Hear, hear.) Well, he had
shown that there was a something of fashion, and some-
thing in want of confidence, which occasioned the un-
willingness of the English capitalists to invest their
moneys in Irish railways. But if they looked to this
part of the question, they must recollect that most of
the railway proprietors in Ireland were the landlords and
tenants in that country, and that the very calamity which
now impoverished and afflicted that country furnished the
very reason why those proprietors should not be able
to meet their calls; and the consequence was that sense
of the best speculations in Ireland were now what was
called "stuck fast" for want of money. He would take
the railways in the southern part of Ireland, and read
from a report which he had received from two gen
tlemen, two engineers, who had been travelling in Ireland
for the purpose of this very question of Irish railways.
They said that one of the railways, of which Cork was
one of the termini, and which was sixty-five miles long,
would be commenced when they received funds to enable
them to go on with it. They stated that the branch to
Limerick, which was twenty-five miles long, would be be -
gun when the necessary funds were obtained, and that
the opening of the whole line to Tipperary would depend
also upon the supply of money. The Kilkenny Junc-
tion, which was forty-five miles in length, and which
had passed the House, was also stopped for want of
money. The Cork and Fermoy was stopped for a
similar reason. And a portion of the Limerick and
Waterford was similarly circuumstanced; so was the Cork
and Bandon; so it was with the Cork and Waterford.
This made in the whole 2291 miles of railway stopped
in Ireland for the want of funds. On the Dublin
and Mullingar 3,011 persons were employed, but if
the company bad more money, a greater number
might be put on.—(Hear, hear.) The reason this
money was not forthcoming was, because capitalists in
this country mistrusted Irish lines, and the propOsition
he had to make was that Government should do away
with that mistrust. The proposition he had to make to
the House was :this: that for every 100 L properly ex-
pended upon railways, Government shonid guarantee
three and a half per cent. This was less than
had heretofore been paid for money, and no doubt
he should be met with arguments against the insuffi-
ciency of the security, but with the indulgence of the
House he should be able to show that with the restric-
tions he should propose the security would be amply

.
Mr. B. DENISON presented a petition from Doncas-
:er against the Poor Removal Act.
Colonel T. WOOD presented a similar petition from
:he Bradford Union.

TAXES.
Mr. WAKLEY presented a petition from a police-
man named Webb, stating that he had, unfortunately
for himself and his creditors, been sixteen years in debt,
but that during the whole time he had bee❑ paying in-
direct taxes, and during the last five years direct taxes.
He prayed that he and all other Englishmen who were
in debt should be relieved from taxation. He prayed
the louse to take the subject into consideration, and be-
lieved that the House would grant his petition.
TEN HOURS' BILL.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL presented petitions
from several places in favour of the Ten Hours' Bill.
THE RAJA OF SATTARA.
Sir DE LACY EVANS presented a petition from a
public meeting of the inhabitants of the city of West-
minster, praying for an inquiry into the circumstances
which had led to the dethronement of the Raja of
Sattara.
IMPORTATION OF CORN.

Dr. BOWRING rose to call the attention of the Noble
Lord, the Secretary for Foreign Affairs to the report,
that a quantity of corn bound for this country had been
detained at Ancona by an order of the Pope.
CRACOW.

Mr. lIUME gave notice of his intention to bring
under the consideration of the House, on an early day,
the recent proceedings relating to the suppression of the
republic of Cracow.
THE WINDOW-TAX.

Lord DUNCAN gave notice that he would, on an
early day, bring forward a motion fur the repeal of the
window-tax.

XbiERDMENT OF THE REFORM ACT.

Mr. T. S. DUNCOMBE postponed his motion for
leave to bring in a Bill to repeal the rate-paying clauses
of the Reform Act till that day fortnight.

tnat day
AMENDMENT OF RAILWAY ACTS.
Mr. STRUTT gave notice that, on Tuesday next, he
fnri Ityeutsi ittitl,l„.. to amend the

Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN postponed till that day fort-
night his motion relating to an absentee tax for Ireland.

IRISH DISTRESS.

Mr. DANIEL O'CALLAGHAN presented a petition
from the Corporation of Cork, praying the House to
adopt some speedy measures in order to stop the spread
of disease in Ireland, consequent upon the distress of
that country.
ENFRANCHISEMENT OF COPYHOLDS.

Mr. AGLIONBY wished to ask the Noble Lord at the
head of the Government whether he would allow him,
so coon as the present press of Irish business was over,
to ask him what course the Government meant to
pursue with respect to the enfranchisement of copyholds,
and whether it was the intention of the Government to
carry into effect the recommendation of the Select Com-
mittee, that under certain regulations the enfranchise-
ment of copyholds should be rendered compulsory?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that he would be quite
ready to answer any question of the Hon. Member upon
the subject next week.
BtßhleENNohs tleatLed ordtha at t,
thuepohneat ani
of
fatrhlye
day,
Mr. AGLIONBY said he would take the opportunity
next week of putting a question upon the subject.
IRISH. COLLEGES.
3rr.
Government what course they had taken, or intended to
take, upon the subject of Irish colleges. He believed,
that at present, the preliminary works had had not even
commenced.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said the subject had occu-
pied considerable attention on the part of the Govern-
,l; e S M
wouldirri ask O'
Govern-
ment. His Hon. Friend the Secretary. for Ireland had
devoted considerable time to the consideration of the
subject. He (Lord J. Russell) hoped that the difficulties
which had stood in the way of the progress of the col.
leges would be shortly removed. He could not
at present state the arrangements which had been
made, as they were not yet completed. When
however, they were finally resolved upon, he would be
ready to answer any questions of the Hon. Member.
CHARITABLE TRUSTS.
Mr. HUME said that, to-morrow, he would ask the
Noble Lord at the bead of the Government, what course
the Government intended to pursue with respect to a
Bill for the regulation of charitles.l
TEN HOURS BI LL.

Mr. BERNAL presented a petition in favour of the
Ten Hours' Bill.
POOR REMOVAL BILL.

Mr. BANKES wished a reply to the following ques-
tion from the Attorney-General :—Whether he had any
objection to produce the opinion which he gave to the
Poor-law Commissioners on the subject of the Poor
Removal Bill of last session ?
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL felt indebted to his
Hon. Friend for having given him notice of the question
which he intended to put. In so far as he was per-
sonally concerned, he should have no objection, if he
had the option to produce it. It was not in his posses-
sion, and he could not furnish him with the purport of
it from recollection. He believed, however, it was not
the practice in that House, or elsewhere, to call for the
production of the opinions of counsel.—(Hear, hear,
from Sir James Graham.) He had no control over
the opinion after it was given.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. BANKES then gave notice that, to-morrow, he
should move for the production of the opinion of the
Poor-law Commissioner in whose possession it was.
RAILWAYS IN IRELAND.
Lord GEORGE BENTINCK, in rising to move for
leave to bring in a Bill to stimulate the prompt and pro-
fitable employment of the people by the encouragement
of railways in Ireland, said, that although he had often
experienced the undeserved and kind encouragement of
that House on former occasions, still he had never
felt that he so much needed it as on the present occa-
sion, when, for the first time, he was going to introduce
a measure in which the interests of his country were
deeply concerned. It was not that he felt any want of
confidence in the intrinsic matter of the measure which
he was going to introduce to the House, for in that he
had the fullest confidence--but it was because he feared
that the feebleness of the advocate should mar
a measure, the success of which must mainly
depend on its practical machinery a mea-
sure which had been considered with careful
and anxious solicitude by men far superior in intellect
to himself,—a measure which had been prepared by men
the value of whose time would have been counted by
minutes. When he said that his Hon. Friend the Lord
Mayor of York, and Mr. Robt. Stephenson, and Mr.
Laing had devoted their time entirely to the
preparation of this measure, he thought the House
would think with him that there had been the soundest
and most powerful understandings applied to the consi-
deration of this question, affecting railways in Ireland •
but while he said that his -Honourable Friends
were entitled to all the praise and all the merits that
might be found in the measure, he would add that, if on
the contrary, there was that in its principles which was
hostile
to the constitution of this country—if there
was anything in its details which was injurious to the
industry of the country—if the measure was so bad that
it was not entitled even to a hearing in that House—if
it deserved to he condemned there, he would admit, that
for
all that was bad in its principles he alone was re-
sponsible. It was his privilege, as leader of the party
with which he was connected, to claim for himself

sufficient. There sat beside him a gentleman who ' mission. In introducing this measure to the House, it
was chairman of the management of 1,700 miles of was not his wish to bring it forward with any hostile
railway, who had the conduct of 45,000,0001., and view towards the Government, and he had hoped
he aas prepared to pledge his commercial that the Ncble Lord and the Government would
character that Government could not lose one single take consideration of it in the same spirit as if they
farthing by this proposition. The Right Hon. Gentleman were a great re-elected Committee appointed to consider
the Lord Mayor of York would tell the House that the and decide upon the question. The idea of the Bill ode
worst railway under hie direction would afford 7 per cent. ginated as far back as September last, at the house of
security to Government; and he himself would be pre- his Hon. Friend Sir John Tyrrell, and the Bill itself
pared to show that the worst railway in Belgium or Scot- was drawn up as far back as November last, but no notice
land would amply pay for the money expended on them. of the Bill was given to the protectionist Members of
He was now speaking of passenger-traffic. It was here that House, except the Hon. Member for Harwich, who
entirely a question of passengers.—(Hear, hear.) Well, was in all their confidences.—(Laughter.) They
then, he had said that his proposition was, that Govern- did not consult any Irish Member, or any
ment should lend out at interest money at gentlemin connected with the Irish companies,.
that rate at which they borrowed. He believed because they thought, as it was a question of
that the interest now was 31. 6s. Bd. per cent. calling upon England to grant a large sum of money, it
But he would assume it to be 3i per cent. Govern- would be unbecoming to submit it to any jury except
ment were to take the security on the entire loan that House. He trusted, however, that Irish Members
There would then be 71. on 2001. The line that paid would not think that he had exercised any slighting disc
2/. 6s. Bd. per cent. would afford for the interest of cretion when he forbore to consult with them before
Government. He would show this from the Ar in troducing this measure to the House. He felt, amongst
broath and Forfar line, which cost 9,000/. other matters, that it was likely there would be s gene-.
The receipts upon that line were for the ral clamour against any proposition that would come
first year 468 L, and the cost of the working of the line forward about Ireland ; and, besides, b
was 2021., leaving to Government a clear interest, be. thought it was much more consistent for the
sides 2/. per cent. for the shareholders. To show what I, ism gentlemen to act as they had done.
that line was, he must tell the House that all He thought this was more favourable for Irish
the traffic which existed previous to the con- gentlemen and props iet ors than:that which they proposed
struction of that railway from Arbroath to For- themselves. He (Lord G. Bentinek) and his friends
far amounted to what could be carried on a one-horsed had arrived at this conclusion after having given the
carrier which plied once a-week.—(Hear, hear, and a subject their best consideration. The present measure
laugh.) The passenger-traffic daily, at present, was would have, in his (Lord G. Bentinck's) opinion, the
247 persons, and last year ninety thousand pas- effect of stimulating the employment of the people
in
sengers, and paid five per cent. to the shareholders. Ireland. This was the object proposed by the Irish
Having selected the worst line in the empire, and taken gentlemen themselves; but they should recollect that
it in its earliest infancy to show that the .security the best line would not have the effect they (Lord G.
would be wholly sufficient, he had now to show Bentieck and his party) desired. His Right Hon. Friend
to the House the grounds on which he confidently had never engaged in any enterprise that he bad not
expected that the passing of this measure would been crowned with success, and who may consequently,
have the effect of stimulating English capitalists, perhaps, be the best judge of these matters, he Ivas
and that they would forthwith set to work to complete of opinion that no such encouragement as the Rish
the railways in Ireland. But before he went on to do could give would effect the objects here proposed. ee
so, his Hon. Friend behind him (Mr. Hudson) reminded might do so slowly, but immediately it would not bale
him that he ought to have stated that this the effect of stimulating labour. They could form scene
security of 1001. properly expended for every 2001. idea of the number of labourers employed by railways.
they asked was a security unquestioned. They proposed The London and Birmingham line employed one bunn; •
to snake the Railway Commissioners, a board which is dred men a mile for four consecutive years. Taking o.
responsible to both Houses of Parliament, an efficient line of those proposed in Ireland, Mr. Stephenson bad
board for the purpose of dealing out those loans stated that to execute the whole it would require the ser:
to the companies. They proposed to throW' vices of sixty men a mile for four consecutive years, and
the entire responsibility upon those Commissioners for 150 miles-90,000. But artificers, and many others not
for the due performance of their duties; and exactly engaged on the line of railway would be also
unless they shall report that the railway at once pro- employed to the extent of over 9,000, besides those who
tnises to be beneficial to the country, and also unless would be employed in different ways to the extent of
reasonable and sufficient security be given, the State is 180,000. But there were other miscellaneous em ley'
not to be called upon to subscribe, or to advance any ments, which, it could not be denied, by the expenditure
money upon the enterprise. He was going on to show in .wisely, of a large sum of money, would give employe
what position the proposition would place the share- merit to 110,000. But the whole number who would be,
holders, and it would be at once clear to the House, that thus employed, would amount to 550,000 for four CO
whilst the Government would gain four per cent., it secutive years. Now, if a measure which he was prePare°
would pay twelve to the shareholder on every 3001. laid to show, would cost this country nothing—(Hear)'
out. He would take a railway, of all others in Ireland, and which would not only cost it nothing, but add to itS
which was looked upon as of the utmost national import- wealth—if by a measure such as this, employneen
_e
auce, and comprises the greatsst number of shareholders. would be given for four consecutive years to 550,0004
He would take the Waterford and Limerick Railway, the industrious population of Ireland, who would reel',
Now, the position of the Waterford and Limerick Rail- good wages during that time, it must be admitted the,
way was this : it was estimated that the cost of the he went a long way to assist his Noble Friend (Lorneet
railway would be 750,000/., but they had taken power to Russell) in carrying out his New Pour-law Amendm2l.
fl
borrow 250,0001. more, and he was assured, from the gene Act.—(Cheers.) But he not only expected by
ral experience of all railways which had been constructed proposition to give employment to this large nuesre,,
in this country and in Scotland, that he should not be and consequently subsistence at least during the WI
safe, unless he estimated the amount of the cost of the years, but they had not forgotten the comforts lye
railway not only the estimated capital but also of the interests of the labourers, in following out
.i'A
loans which they had power to take. He assumed, recommendations of the Committee to which he ;7
therefore, that the Waterford and Limerick Railway referred, they had inserted clauses in the Bill, obligiblee
would cost 1,000,0001. sterling before it was corn- the companies to see that their contractors paid
pleted. They had already expended 324,000/. in the wages of the labourers once a week and in hard cash_e,
construction of different works—(Hear, hear)— (Cheers)—and they had also provided that if the Yea,
but they were stopped for want of money, and tractors or sub-contractors should fail to fulfil that Coo'
the consequence was, that though 27/. 10s. had been dition from the Saturday to the Monday, that a sumeeale
paid up of each 50/. share, those shares were at from process should have effect upon them, and that See;
12 to 14 discount. So that, in point of fact, should be obliged either to re-pay the labourer on Weer
the market value of the 324,000/. so expended day, or in default to pay double the - wages ee,
on the Waterford and Limerick Railway was 162,0001 every day of delay.—(Hear, hear.) But this :17
Now, under his proposition, it would not be not the only point on which they had
rue,.
necessar to make any further vain calls
.on sidered the interests of the railway labou
the shareholders,as the company would be entitled at Another thing which they recommended was this--art„.
eensoiseu
once to demand rom the Government a loan equal to received the suggestion from his friend Mr. Step
648,000/. What would be the effect of this ? it was this, that the companies should be required,
eon.
It had been estimated that the traffic of the the demand of the Railway Commissioners, to r7e,
e-
railway would admit of a dividend on a capital decent dwellings for the labourers before tae works
_sea
Ce
of 750,000/. of 6e per cent. But considering that the mence. Nothing could be etronger than the lan,
true expenditure would be not 750,0001., but 1,000,000/. used in the report which was laid upon the eau'tbe
sterling ; that would give 5 per cent. as the probable stating that it was vain to think of improvingTieg
dividend on the entire cost of the railway. But morals unless a commencement was made by imPrree° tied
her Majesty's Government came in and lent the social condition of the people, and, in point of loeeeee
them two-thirds of their capital at 3e, per cent. has been found that railway labourers have been er Zoe
The result would be that the 324,0001. share capital into lanes and places not fit for pigs. Some might
already expended, would have a fair and early prospect that this was an interference with free trade inn eele_tespa
of a dividend of 8 per cent. The effect of such struction of railways. He was given to u d es
a course would be, that the shares of that Com- from all the best contractors, that it was cheaperinto.t_bseoi
pany, instead of being dead in the market, in the end to consult the convenience and co
httotebse.
instead of being at a discount of 162.000/., their labourers.—(Hear, hear.) Experience tang
go
to
would instantly rise to a premium, and the landed that if their men were uncomfortable, they
proprietary and tenantry of Ireland being unable to the public-house and get drunk.
:opportunity 01
meet the calls upon them, would be enabled to taught them that where the labourers
got rid of their shares at a premium, and fortably provided for, and had net
h them, they soon
employ the money so obtained in the improvement of bringing their wives and families wit the
it. But there
their estates, and in giving employment to the people got tired of their work and deserted
this arrange-
of Ireland ; so that his propositions would have a double was also another advantage which
ardieees in Ire" f
effect ;it would at once set to work an immense ment; it would afford to the poor-law ee ers out °f
number of persons, and it would enable the landed land additional means of providing for labour bill,
proprietors, who were now shareholders in the concern, employment in their own parish. It might have "ie.
to make use of the money for the improvement of their harsh for the poor-law guardians to say to the idle fe,
estates and the employment of the people. He tenurers who asked for relief, "Oh, :there is a rail k 9
nEiinp ewnr ieetn e also
proprietary
had a letter from Lord Glengall, stating that he thirty or forty miles away where you might get wort.
were prepared to isTiVAS'i which if etAlty had money, The labourer's answer was, " Where am I and oiYie'l7g
altar.) menu Liwc, or oven then."
In the counties of Kilkenny, Limerick, and Water- now, it would be in the power of the poor-law guard-in
ford, as well as in each of the four baronies, a to say, there is an order for a pip, pickaxe, and a slole;
similar result would take place.—(Hear.) Now, in go on a railway, and there you will find employment Oa
each of these places the expenditure under the present- dwelling, which, when you have got, you have no elaibT;
ment sessions had been at the rate of 4,0001. per month And thus he thought he should be affording his 1c.,.,°0r,
for the last three months, with every prospect of these Friend great facilities for carrying out his lue
demands being continued,—(Cries of " bear, hear.") law Amendment Act. He would now, with the in the
And there was this additional objection to this expendi- Bence of the House, come to the consideration s
01 of
ture, that it was upon useless and unproductive works. effect on the Irish poor.rate which the construetei°oiee
A magic influence had, however, come over the Govern- these lines would occasion. For the purpose of `
merit, and they had allowed money to be advanced on this effectively, he would turn to the evidence of one
the earth-works of railways on the security of pre- Smith, of Deanston. And would ant if
sentments. He thought the course he proposed, naturally suppose that Mr. Smith would sals'iats
—namely, to advance money on the security of railways he were asked what measure was, most %het
—would be much better than on the security of lated to improve the condition of Ireland bet
land. The proposal of lending money to answer should he make but that they should drain. toe,
railways in the security of land was made in 1839, and bogs, to be sure ? But when Mr. Smith, of Dealleor
when first proposed, was carried by a majority, but her was examined before the Committee by the Hon' Ass
Ma
jesty Government would not assent to the ber for Montrose (Mr. Hume), and was asked-" efelt
proposal. He considered this a wrong course, the best measure for the improvement of that enusera
and the result showed that he was right in he said at once the construction of railways, to be
...A the
coming to such a conclusion, for while the lands along- And he said that if the railways were construeTeee)
side of which railways passed were increased in value to agricultural improvement would follow.—(Hear,nieioo
the amount of 1,0001. per cent., the land along the Mr. Smith, of Deanstone, was decidedly of , s ei°hrealglij
,
old channels of communication remained stationary. that it would contribute to improve the land
When he was upon this subject of the railways in the which they passed, if railroads were constructs 'rove
southern districts of Ireland, it was only fair 'to state his opinion was that it would tend greatly to bnarealcl
that the Waterford and. Limerick Railway Company it. Mr. Smith, of Deanstone, was asked what "tea
were prepared to employ 16,000 men upon their follow if, these railroads were constructed, and hoc'e Wara
sworks. But he would read the application made would affect agricultural produce, and his answen
by the Chairman of the Great Southern and that the improvement of the land to the extent 0t Sgt
Western Railway Company to the Government, mile on each side of the railway would be such4ol'
on the 22d of May, of the last year. Mr. George Carr, it would pay for the whole construction of the rat el'
the chairman of the Great Southern and Western Rail- He showed that on an area of 640 acres, veleicile °0
way Company, addressed a letter to Sir Robert Peel, lowed for a square mile, the produce of the landueage
In which he stated that, after consulting the' contractors, as it enters into his calculation, for its mere' ear art
lag
he found that, if they were accommodated with a sum alone, would return a full per tentage, without sagoe'
of 500,000/., they would undertake to give simultaneous anything of back carriage. He found from this. eaS
employment to many thousand persons in different meat, that the cost of the carriage per square m'el see
portions of their line, and the writer of the letter 377/, 15s. 6d., and the return is calculated at 61,7,. the
added, that the utmost care would be taken in the and this difference was the advantage obtained lo^eals
payment of the wages to adopt a system produce of the land on every mile of railway. /teee
of wise economy, while at the same time ing to his calculation, at twenty years' porches had
a great extent of relief would be afforded to the popula- miles of railway would realise 152,8521. Now the sea
tion of the different counties, and Government still would proposed the construction of 1,500 miles of railWsPc, is
be remunerated for the money advanced. He also inclosed from this calculation it appeared that land PrnPert'dl9
e
a copy of a letter which he had addressed to the Ireland would be enhanced in value, taking only e%'
Secretary of Public Works in Ireland, and trictof one mile on each side of the railway, to Weal
after stating that the length of line was 200 tent, and he assumed on the basis of this calculation 'of
miles, and that ' the dense population of the 1,920,000 acres would be required for the 1,500 Millie
towns along the line, from Templemore to Tipperary, railway; the improvement of the landed property teelo
had long been known for their discontented condition, land, at 25 years' purchase, and that he took as the 0
and there was no means of alleviating this evil excepting estimate that could be stated—the improvemente-el'
by an employment of the people. He might safely year's purchase would be to the extent of 23,033,64'034e
assert, that 50,000 poor fellows were now starving (Hear, hear.) This statement was made by Mr'
ofie°
•
and idle, who would be Placed in a condi- of Deanstone, as his estimate of the imovement bi°
tion of comparative comfort by the receipt of in Ireland by the construction of railways. Tut'-frolo
wages which would render them and their families was not an over-statement might be ascertainedblu.gli
happy during the most trying period of the year— the experience obtained on the Glasgow and Edie-0 Jps
namely, the months of July and August. Now, he would Railway, the statement of which Mr. Smith gave tbi,
have Hon. Members to reflect on this offer of the evidence. He said that before the construction feral',
Great Southern and Western Company to employ 50,000 line the greater part of the land near to it was le;
labourers; it would have exhibited a true wisdom and a more than five shillings an acre, whereas now it
true economy, and have prevented the necessity of now at from thirty to forty shillings an acre.—(Hear, men
being called upon to pay half the expenses of these Now, taking ten shillings per acre as the inlPr,°„•
parochial presentments for the maintenance of the Irish obtained by the construction of a railway, and ealeo,ol
poor. In addition to this, he had a communication at 25 years' purchase, the improvement of le" siee °
from Mr. Garvan, a great contractor of Ireland, who acres, which would be required for the 1,500 il!ve
had taken contracts for three hundred miles of railway, railway would be found to yield an additional °Pelee of
but he states that he was stopped on a hundred and two the country of 23,000,000/a and he did think teeeeeat
miles out of the three hundred, partly in consequence this head alone, his proposal was fraught with SO
of not being able to get possession of the land, and advantage to the country. But that was not tbeetall
partly on account of the want of money to go on with advantage. It would employ those labourers useshic
the works. He states, that if he were at liberty to pro- who were engaged on those works of idleness 000
teed, he could, upon the next day, employ thirty thou- were commenced last May. There were 83,000
sad
sand men.—(Hear, hear.) It might, however, be said employed to construct 3,800 miles of useless roadllci, bOl
that his proposal would only affect those counties not only would those labourers be usefully ensl",,e,e-rstiff
pdt
tell h
har res ods
eut
d ag
ne
inh and forty
House,wft hohi
rect hy
sessions the
tthat
milesa rt ai l
out roo f
railroads drlsaBt
railway
o
passed;aaynn edf
o thousand
rlb
Bu4t
6 I
whichea n beggedAd three
ctrsevh were
oue
u nrt oes. their employment would tend to relieve the
and the county cess by the construction of railiveeee
he were to take the number of those who direcetolleoo,
it
directly were assisted by the poor-rate at 1,
50
0
to that, the result was, that there were but four coun- appeared to him that the expenditure for ihesetent °f
ties in Ireland which would not be traversed by rail. miles would relieve the poor-rate to the e": 50111
wmaayyse.
Sligo,H e ,
Ghaelawanyand a
nd
Roscommon.cheers) Th ose
There counties
e , 15,000,000/. He fOund by the calculation
vied for
adopted for railways in England the money le on the
already before the House Bills for the extensionwre poor-rates amounted. to one and a half per
of a line from Athlone to Galway,which cent;etoill:nthl
would traverse gross return. This sum would give a Revssosothwel
one end of the county of Roscommon and pass through 1,0001. per mile. In England and rull 'peg
the eennttr eof
gentlemenGalway. , This was a line which those in- gross return was on an average 3'sessilWal°
Messrs. Bidder and ida who mile. He took the gross return on , eat,
z, Begs
owtehreer employed by Mr. Stephenson, said, that of all the in Ireland at one-seventh of that °' d whe°
and he believed that the railways in jrelanst
uteo seo
projected lines of railway, this was of the greatest
importance to the welfare of that country, and a line finished and completely officered, would not
teh°oriailWgic
which would pay at least five per cent. to the share-
holders, There could not be a doubt, if this measure much as this. He now gave thereturn for
al ulation
were to pass, that another branch from the Midland and at 950/. a mile, though,accordin to the:cease,. n the
ought to be 1,60.0/. a. mile ; b.utgnovet
eisl;7ige°e sum'
Great Western Railway would be made, passing from amount of 3,500 e, as it was believed
Longford to Sligo, through a very fine mineral district, he would assume that the
which, according
to the report of the Railway, Commis- and Scotland, was only to b© 1,000/. per minor-rate sad
sinners in the year 1842, contained the finest description this calculation it was evident, that the
relieved to the /,
of the richest and most luxuriant ore, but which could the county-cess of Ireland would be _ore, _pis
mileage alldwiineefer sinege--I,llPeet,:i
22,6001. a year. Allowing,
not be worked at 'present for want of railway commune- tent ofthe aged'
cation.—(Cheers.) There was a Bill before the House per year for the support of the destitute le _ House tea
also for a line which would be carried on to Cavan and the infirm ; and he ought W state to the
without 01
there would not then be a single county in Ireland' this 22,600/. would bo altogether
loss. He would now take the therefore,
a sin
af
WOrkillg the
which would not be traversed by a railway.—(Hear.)
Acts had been passed empowering companies to complete line. It appeared by the report of the
1,522 miles of railway.'; There were before the House Arbroath and Forfar Railway,
at that moment Bills for 150 miles more, and there were the scale of expense in Great Britain, that
2021. led
the lines which had already been carried out, making cost of working the line was, on an every.,
....,
an
together 1,970 miles of railway, of which 123 were made, mile ; this included the expense of wear
eanunsotTateestet
expenses
do
164 were in the course of construction, leaving 200 miles of new locomotive engines. a""
tuargiA of railway to be allowed by the Railway Com- - and deduct 40 per cent for the working of the
Then,
allows
.ir.theetlf:eurpOtbi:
ectors of the

IN
in