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London, England, 1847-05-18 00:00:00

many thins which had fallen from the Noble and
Learned Lord, and yet he felt compelled to give his vote
in support of the motion by the Noble Earl (El-
lesmere). There was one thing which fell from
the Noble and Learned Lord which seemed to him to
have no foundation whereon to rest. He said that this
was a subject on which legislation could not interfere.
Why ? Oa what did he rest the assertion ? Was the
Legislature a body less free from sinister motives,or more
likely to be moved by a bias ? Did the Noble and
arned Lord say so on the authority of what he con-
ceived to be the principles of Political Economy ?
What was the principle of Political Economy ?
Why, that the Legislature should not in-
terfere with free industry. But here lay the
fallacy. It was assumed that industry was free.
In going back into the history of the factory system,
they could not deny but that great abuses had existed,
and that many of the manufacturers had not done that
towards th• working population which was desirable on
their part to do. No doubt circumstances had done
much to cause them to pursue the course which they
had done ; bat on that very account he thought that in-
terference was required, in order to put an end to the
evils and abuses which existed in the system. In the
course of the present debate, the Noble and Learned
Lord opposite (Lord Brougham) had endeavoured to
alarm them with a fearful picture of what was to follow
if the measure passed—that wages would be reduced,
profits would fall, and general distress overtake the ma-
nufacturing districts. Now to that he (the Bishop of
St. David's) would answer, that those who had fully con-
sidered the question, and who well knew the nature of
this branch of industry, declared that this was a
a gross exaggeration, and that the estimate of the evils
apprehended bad no foundation whatever in fact. Not
only the most intelligent of the working population, but
naany of the greatest manufacturers of the country had
met these objections, and shown that they were falla•
cious and unsound. Though it had been said that this
would be a perilous experiment, he contended that the
peril was all on the side of the system the Bill sought to
amend, and he therefore called on their Lordships to act
on the humane peinciple of the greatest happiness to
the greatest number, and support the second reading of
the Bill.—(Cheers.)
Lord ASHBURTON called on their Lordships to
beware lest by injudicious interference they took away
the bread of a great body of the working population
engaged in factory labour. his objection to the present
measure was, that they were proceeding with most im-
perfect knowledge of its probable operation. He did not
consider the working population referred to by the
Right Reverend Prelate proper authorities to decide the
question, and he, for one, would have been glad if steps
tied been taken to inquire more fully into the feelings
and sentiments of the master manufacturers. At the
present time the manufacturing producer of this country
had to submit to the keenest competition in all the
markets of the world, and they ought therefore to pause
ere they aggravated that state of things. Had the Bill
contained a clause for eleven hours, he would have sup-
ported it, but as it did not contain such a clause, he must
vote for the amendment of the Noble and Learned Lord.

The gallery was then cleared for a division, when
'ere appeared—
For the second reading of the Bill,

Contents . — 53
Against the Bill
_ _ . _

Majority for the second reading... —42
Their Lordships then adjourned at a Quarter past
Twelve o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, flay 17.
The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly before Four
o'clock.

REPORTS.

The reports on the following Bills were brought up:—
Bridge House Estates Debt.
Commercial Gas-light and Coke Company.
Dublin and Belfast Junction and Navan Branch Railway.
Dublin and Drogheda Railway (Purchase of Navan

Branch, &c.) -
Dundalk and Enniskillen Railway.

Dunfermline Waterworks.
Eastern Counties Railway (Maldon, Witham, and
Braintree Railway Purchase).
Eastern Counties Railway Extension (Cambridge to
Bedford, &c.)
East Lincolnshire Railway (Deviation at Boston, and
Branch to Great Grimsby and Sheffield Junction Rail-
way at Grimsby).
Edinburgh and Glasgow, Monkland and Kirkintilloch,
Ballochney and Slamannan Railways Amalgamation,
Sale or Lease.
Enfield or Edmonton Railway Extension.
Falmouth Waterworks.

Glasgow, Barrhead, and Neilston Direct Railway.
Glasgow, Dumfries, and Carlisle Railway, and Glasgow,
Paisley, Kilmarnock, and Ayr Railway (No. 1).
Glasgow, Kilmarnock, and Ardrossan Railway (Amend
went, Deviations, and Branches)
Glasgow, Paisley, and Greenock Railway (Branches at
Port Glasgow).
Glasgow, Paisley, and Greenock Railway (Amendment
and Branches to the Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock,
and Ayr, the Glasgow, Barrhead, and Neilston, and
the Glasgow, Strathaven, and Lesmahagow Railways,
and to Haugh Pits).
Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock, and Ayr Railway (No 2).
Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock, and Ayr Railway, and
Ayrshire and Bridge of Weir Railway (No. 3).
Great Indian Peninsula Railway.
Great Southern ai:d Western Railway Extension (Port.
arlingron to Tullamore).
Lowestoft Railway and Harbour (Alteration near Reed-
ham).
Manchester and Birmingham and North Staffordshire
Junction Railway,
Norfolk Railway (Yarmouth Extension).
Norfolk Railway (Branch from Wymondham to the
Norwich Extension of the Ipswich and Bury St. Ed-
mund'sßailway,Reedham Railway near Diss.)
Paisley and Renfrew Railway (Sale and Improvement).
and the proposed Thetford and
Paisley, Barrhead, and Hurlet Railway.
Payne's Patents Assignment.
Plymouth and Tavistock Road (No. 2).
Ross, Cromarty, and Part of Nairn District Roads.
Runcorn Gas.

Saffron Walden Rates.
Swansea and Amman Junction Railway.
Wakefield Market.

Warrington Gas.
Waterford and Limerick Railway.
Waterford Road.

York Improvement, Lendal Bridge
Wexford Free Bridge.
The Reports on the following Bills were further con-
sidered and agreed to:—.
Belfast Port and Harbour.
Dublin Consumers Gas. and Approaches.

Duffryn Llynyi and Porth Cawl and Lynvi Valley
aiDsleuyw,iKrieilsm' and Carlisle Railway, and Gim
Kilmarnock, and Ayr Railway
Railways Amalgamation.
p.
(No. 4).
Glasgow,
g o w,
London Sewage Chemical Dianure
11PLeod's (Dalkeith Glebe) Estate.
Hyde Improvement.
Sheffield Markets (Amendments to be proposed).
THIRD READINGS.
The following Bills were read a third time and
passed :
Birkenhead Dock Company and Herculaneum Dock
Company Amalgamation.
British Commercial Insurance Company (No. 2).
Caledonian Railway (Glasgow, Garnkirk, and Coat-
bridge Railway, Branch to Glasgow Station).
Cork and Bandon Railway.
Cork, Blackrock, and Passage Railway.
Dunfermline and Cupar Court Houses.
Eastern Union and Ipswich and Bury St. Edmund's
Railways Amalgamation.
Southampton and Dorchester Railway (Weymouth

Branch).
REPORTS OF RAILWAY COMMITTEES.
Mr. FITZROY moved that it is expedient to suspend
for the remainder of this session the standing order
which precludes Committees on Railway Groups from
malting their reports to the House until the reports on
the several lines comprised in the Group have been laid
before them by the Railway Commissioners.
Mr. STRU4T said that it was not possible that the
reports of the Railway Commissioners could be more ably
'macte'onts a• eapenae nor trouble WU spared, and their
authority was very great, and he therefore could ,
not think that they were valueless. They had
prevented a great many evils from occurring, and,
especially, they had prevented railway companies from
increasing their capital to an unlimited amount.
Mr. SHAW said that he was not about to deny that
these reports were valuable ; it was to the working of
the system that he objected. The Committee were
obliged to hear everything, and then read the Commis-
sioners' report, for which they were often obliged to
wait for a long time, and thus occasion an enormous
expense to the parties.
After a few words from Mr. CRIPPS, which did not
reach the gallery,
Sir E. ELLICE said that no person lamented more
than he did the difficulty which had been experienced in
carrying out the resolutions which he had ventured to
propose, and he must again say,in his own defence,
that this matter of difficulty should not have been
, but there were
prepared during
allowed to remain in the hands of an. individual Member
of that House. What had
.fallen from his Right Hon.
Friend the Chief Commissioner of. the Railway Board
fully bore out his statement,. which ho recommended
the Rouse to come to this decision. He would not repeat
ofßtibeghtBl.iiloisn.v‘F,hriciehndhandadbesett;cl
the present session so many. .conflicting propositions
with respect to the powers for raising capital and for
raising loans, and for amalgamating and uniting compa-
nit i—many of which had been preposterous—that
fAt'ihmataohyis
upon the first attempt at examination before the Board,
the parties themselves had been ashamed of their own'
propositions, and had withdrawi? them. Many of them
had, quite contrary to all principle, and in defiance of
the hstanding orders of the ouse, gone before different
Committees of the house to ask for powers which
they knew could not be granted. He certainly thought
this was not a fit state of things to continue, and
something, iu his opinion, ought to be done to effect
an amendment. Th 3 whole question of railways
was one which Parliament ought to take up, in
order to provide a remedy for the evils which were
complained of in the debate of last Friday. He
should recommend his Hon. Friend to put up with
the inconvenience, in order to have the examinations
which had been taken in that Committee, which the
Government had deemed was necessary for the public
safety.
Mr. HUDSON said that the Committee might have
waited very long before they would have got the Rail.
way Commissioners' reports, and had the original Mien-
thin been carried out, not one of the Committees
now sitting would have got on with their business.
liei
said, therefore, that this investigation should take
place clause by clause; but
.there would, according to his
impression, be a very injurious delay, which would