The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-14 00:00:00

EVENING EDITION

been arranged in a manner satisfactory to the feelings of
both parties. The officer, who had received a reply in a
moment of irritation, which he (Lord G. Lennox) admitted
ought never to have been 'given, had subsequently re-
ceived a satisfactory explanation from the Earl of Car-
digan—an explanation which was equally honourable to
the Noble Earl who had given it and to the officer
who had received it.—(Cheers.) The Hon. Member had
alluded to the returns of the number of punishments which
bad taken place in the regiment since it had been under
the command of the Earl of Cardigan. He (Lord G. L.)
-knew not what those punishments were, but he did know
when regiments returned to the United Kingdom, after
an absence of 20 years in India, soldiers were in the habit
of squandering their money, and that the discipline of
regiments returning from foreign stations was, generally
speaking, more lax than that of regiments which had
passed the same period at home. After all, the
only reason urged by the Honourable Member for
his motion was, that the Earl of Cardigan had
-flogged a man on a Sunday, for all his other acts
had been approved by the Horse Guards; and if
any thing wrong had been done they were the
proper people to be attacked.—(Loud. cheering.)
With regard to the flogging the soldier on a Sunday, no
man could regret the occurrence of that unfortunate
circumstance more than he (Lord G. Lennox) did, and
he believed that at that moment no man regretted
it more than the Earl of Cardigan himself He
would ask that House, if it had been any other
individual than the Earli ®f Cardigan (Opposition
cheers)—he would ask the Hon. Member for Bir-
mingham, if it had been any othef commanding
officer, suppose an unfortunate captain of a man-of-war,
should Hon. Members ever have had that case brought
before them ? They never would have heard of it. Such
instances had occurred, and there was not a
Member of that House but was not aware of the fact.
He maintained that the Earl of Cardigan had been a
most abused man. The press would never have risen
Eas it did against any other man 'than that Noble
rl. The most abusive epithets had been applied
to him, " tyrant," " convicted felon," and such other op-
probrious names ; and he had been brought before a judi-
cial tribunal for having done what no British officer could
refuse to do. For let it be remembered that officers of
the army were placed in a very trying situation with re-
gard to duels. .rf an officer resented an insult, it seemed
he was liable to be tried for felony ; if he did not resent
it, the Horse Guards would direct a court-martial to be
held on his conduct, and would order him to be dismissed
the service. Many Hon. Members knew instances of
officers being dismissed the service, not merely for not
having fought a duel, but because they had not called
out the individual who gave the insult soon enough. He
(Lord G. Lennox) knew an instance where an individual
having fired four shots against his adversary, was re-
moved from the army because he had not taken notice
of the subjact of quarrel in sufficient time.—(Hear, hear.)
The Hon. and Gallant Member for Armagh (Colonel
Vernon) could corroborate what he (Lord G. Lennox) had
said with regard to that case. He would not.detain the
House any longer. Although the Earl of Cardigan
would be glad to have his conduct inquired into, yet he
(Lord G. Lennox) thought that it would not be right to
grant the address which the Hon. Member for Birming-
ham (Mr. Muntz) had moved for. He would therefore
vote against the motion.
Mr. W. O. STANLEY differed from the Noble Lord
who had just sat down. He asked what would be the
situation of officers, many of whom, without relations or
influence, had expended, perhaps, all their money, if,
after having spent a great portion of their lives
in active service in the most unhealthy cli-
mates, they we to be placed on their return
to the mother country under the command of
a man of such ungovernable temper as the Earl
of Cardigan was. He (Mr. Stanley) could not concur
with the Noble Lord (Lord George Lennox) in
the vote which he had intimated his intention of
giving on the present occasion.
Sir 11. VIVIAN said, that however he disapproved of
the motion then before the House, he could not but ex-
press his unqualified censure of the case of flogging on a
Sunday brought forward against the Earl of Cardigan.
—(Hear, hear.) He could not understand how the Noble
Earl had committed such an act ; but, at the same time,
he was thoroughly persuaded, from a conversation he
had with the Earl of Cardigan, that that unfortunate cir-
cumstance arose entirely from an error of judgment ; and
the Noble Earl had authorized him (Sir H. Vivian) to
express to the House his deep regret at what had occur-
red, and he declared distinctly that it originated in a mis-
take of the judgment on his part, and that he hoped
that no one would attribute to him .any malig-
nity or any harshness towards the soldier who
had been flogged.—(Hear, hear.) It had been stated
that the Earl of Cardigan had given the lie to an officer,
but he (Sir Ilussey Vivian) could not believe that such
a fact had occurred. He was sure that if any officer in
the army communicated such a circumstance to Lord
Hill, that he would receive from his Lordship immediate
justice, and that the Commanding Officer would have
been called to account. He should again repeat n the
name of the Earl of Cardigan, the regret of the It oble
Earl for the flogging on the Sabbath.
Colonel VERNON said, thaz; as he had been referred
to by the Noble Lord opposite (Lord G. Lennox), he
beggeA to say that it was a fact within his own
knowledge tbat an officer in the army, 'who had fought
a duel with a civilian, and had fired four shots, had
been dismissed from the service because he had not noticed
sufficiently early an insult he had received. An intima-
tion had been given to that officer that he would be per-
witted to quit the service, and he had accordingly

sold out..WART said it was very painful to him to be
obliged to come forward to support a charge against an
individual.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He regretted to say
that he had not heard such a defence from
his Right Honourable Friend, the Secretary at War,
as would convince him that that inquiry should not
take place. Ile thought the House bound to give an
oriuortunity to the Noble Earl of ascertaining whether
these charges were true or false. It was admitted by
the Right Hon. the Master-General of the Ordnance, that
the Noble Earl had committed an error of judgment in one
case ; why, then, should they not inquire whether he had
not committed a similar error in other instances? The Noble
Lord (Lord G. Lennox) had stated that the Earl of Car-
di ;ht Was a deeply injured man, and he hoped that such
might bo proved to be the case. If the falsehood of
these charges was capable of proof, why not afford an op-
portunity of ascertaining that fact ? Feeling that in-
quiry 'was due to the Noble Earl and the country, he
should support the motion of his Hon. Friend.
Mr. W.ARBURTON said, after the statement of the
Right Hon. Gentleman that the Noble- Earl had
expressed his regret for flogging a man on Sunday, he
*bould say nothing on that point. In his opinion that
was the lightest of the charges against the Noble Earl.
The Gallant Officer opposite had denied that any censure
was conveyed in the letter of the Adjutant-General, but
he had sines consulted the document, and he found that
it did contain a censure upon the Noble Earl. It ap-
peared to him that when the character of a commanding
oflicer was mentioned in such terms by the Commander-
in-Chief, namely, that the discipline of the regiment was
aff,vted by the conduct of the commanding officer, the
conduct of that officer should be inquired into without
any delay.

Lord HOWICK had beard no reasons which would
induce him to alter the opinions he had given on a former
occasion, but still he was not prepared to concur in the
motion of the Hon. Member for Birmingham. He agreed
with the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary at War,
that although the House had a right of advising the
Crown as to the exercise of power over the
army, still that was a right which the House
ought to use with great caution—it was a right
which nothing but a very extreme case of abuse would
jt:stify them in having recourse to. He did not think
that in the present case there had been sufficient grounds
laid for exercising the power, and on that ground simply
he should refuse to vote for the motion. He could not
help adding that he greatly regretted his Right Hon.
Friend had in the course of his statement made an asser-
tion which was not called for by the circumstances of
the ease, and which, if uncontradicted, might lead to in-
convenience, he meant the statement that no officer of
the British army should under any circumstances be re-
moved from his commission unless he had been guilty
of some offence which a court-martial might take cogni-
"'ace of. To that proposition he entirely de-
murred. An officer might show himself gene-
rally unfit for command and incapable of performing
his duty, and it then would be the painful duty of the
Crown to remove that officer. That necessity did not
appear, in his opinion, to be removal by the circuna-
etance of the officer hasing purchased his commission,
because in such cases he was permitted to sell out.
After a few words from Sir A. DALRYMPLE,
Colonel SALWEY said he rose, in discharge of a
Tainful duty, to support the motion of the Hon. Member
for Birmingham.
The conduct of Lord Cardigan had
created not only dissatisfaction but disgust- in the
ranks of the British . army.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
Was there any person the House that would be bold
enoteek to say that the m
Earl of Cardigan had not incurred
the displeasure of the Horse Guards ? The Hon. and
Gallant Member then read the following extracts from
the memorandum of the Adjutant-General to the officers
of the 11th Light Dragoons, read at .Brighton in the
month of October last :—" The Commanding-officer ofthe
11th Hussars should feel that he has an arduous duty to
perform; that he has not only to command and form. for
service a body of soldiers nearly newly raised and entirely
remounted and equipped, but a corps of officers either re-
cently returned from service in a tropical climate, in
which the habits and custom's of the service must differ
from those in European service, or who have been but a
short time in the army. He should view their errors
with indulgent moderation, particularly if he should
not have reason to believe, as the General Commanding-
in-Chief feels confident he will not, that the errors
are to be attributed to wilful disobedience, insubordina-
tion, or disrespect of his authority. He should never for-
get that those placed under his command are so by the
grant to them of the commissions of our Gracious Sove-
reign as well as to himself ; are officers in the service of
her Majesty, gentlemen of education as well as himself ;
under the protection of her Most Gracious Majesty, of the
authorities of the army, and of the law, as long as they
perform their 'duty and conduct themselves as officers
and gentlemen.. ought. He must recollect that it is
expected from him not onl)r to exercise the mili-
tary command over the regiment, but to give' an
example of moderative temper and discretion_
(Hear, hear)—blended the zealous activity
and ability for which he is noted, which will tend to
form others to be able hereafter to perform the high
duties which in the course of their professional life each
of those placed under his command may be called upon
hereafter to perform."—(Hear, hear.) He would only
further say that all Hon. Members who would vote for
the inquiry, would show an act of friendship to the
Gallant Earl.
Mr. WARBURTON and. Mr. MACAULAY ex—
plained.
General SHARPE thought that interference in the
private affairs of the Army did not become that House.
Mr. MUNTZ, in reply, complied • thit the Right

Hon. Gentleman had misrepresented him, and put Words
in. his mouth which he had never used, and he Would
permit no man to put anything into his mouth.:—(A
laugh.) He had meaely asked for inquiry, withoutiaug,
gesting what that inquiry should be. The country, de-
manded it, and it was due to the Noble Earl himself. ,
The House then divided, when there appeared— -
For the motion
Against it 135
Majority against it_

Sir C. GREY moved for Returns of all Tolls, Duties,
or Monies levied or received by the Corporation of Neiv-
castle-upon-Tyne, for good imported into the port of
Newcastle-upon-Tyne, and of the application of alLsuch
monies, during the last eight years, namely, 1833, 044,,
1835, 1836, 1837, 1838, 1839, and 1840.

On the motion of Lord J. RUSSELL, Orders of::
Day were ordeied to take precedence of Notices of Zie
don, after the Ist June.
ADJOURNED DEBATE.
On the Order of the Day for the resuming of the Ai-
journed Debate being! read,
• l„

Mr. GLADSTONE, alluding to what had fait: ,
from the Noble Lord, the Member for Northumberland,
last night, requested the House would give him an op
portunity, when the Noble Lord should be in his place,
of explaining the circumstances to which the Noble Lord
had alluded, in connection with a person who was very
near and dear to him.—(Cheers.)
Several petitions, in favour of the Ministerial measure,
having been presented,
Mr. BROTHERTON rose, and said that he wished in
a few words to state the reasons which would influence him
in giving his vote on the present occasion. He had al-
ways been an opponent of slavery and the slave trade.
When the great measure for the abolition of slavery had
been proposed, he had been told that free labour would
be cheaper than slave labour ; and in the vote which
he had then given he had been influenced by his
detestation of slavery ; and if he thought
that the measures proposed now by the Gover-
ment were calculated to promote slavery or the
slave trade he would not vote for it. But he heard from
those for whose opinions he had great respect, that such
would not be the case. He had received that day a
communication from the Anti-Slavery Committee of
Manchester, stating that they did not concur in opinion
with the Anti-Slavery Committee of London, that the
proposed measure would have any tendency to encourage
slavery or the slave trade, and he thought he was fully
justified in voting with the Ministers. The great ques-
tion they were called on to decide was, in fact, whe-
ther the people of this country should have dear food and
little employment, or cheap food and more employment.
The plan proposed by her Majesty's Government stated
a remedy, but according to the statement made by the
Noble Lord, they
,would have to apply to the monopo-
list. It was his (Mr. Brotherton's) firm belief that
Mammon was at the bottom of the amendment of the
Noble Lord. However doubtful the question might
be as to sugar, he had no doubt as to the injustice of the
Corn-laws. He thought that great injustice had been
done to the people of England, and he begged to offer
his meed of praise to her Majesty's Government for
bringing forward the noble measures they had done.
The distress of the manufacturing interest was at the
present moment far greater than ever it was known. lii
Manchester thousands upon thousands were out of
employment ; and those who had anything to
do were working for half wages.—(Hear, hear.)
Mai!), who had formerly lived in houses were now resid-
ing in lodgings. The property of the manufacturer had
deteriorated full a half. In Manchester and its neigh-
bourhood there were upwards of ten thousand houses un-
occupied in consequence of the distress in trade ; and it
had been shown that in two thousand families in the
same neighbourhood they had latterly earned not more
than ls. 244. a week. Such a state of things must have
a cause, and he trusted the House would provide a re-
medy. The present system of the Corn-laws was not
only unjust but inhuman to the poor man. They were
also injurious to the merchant and the manufacturer.
He trusted, therefore, that the people would come for-
ward with a determination to do away with them, and
that the House would respond to their call by blotting
them from the Statute book.

Captain HAMILTON was not, on the fourth night of
the debate, going to enter into the question of the
sugar duties, but he felt bound to say that it was
his belief, and the belief of a great many in the
country, that the Chancellor of the Exchequer never ex-
pected that he should be enabled to carry the Budget
that he had introduced. With respect to the' speech of
the Noble Lord who had introduced the present ques-
tion to the House he thought it far more fitting for the
hustings than the House of Commons. The Noble Lord
had taunted the Members on that side of the House with
a new-born zeal for the suppression of slavery. He
thought he might return that taunt, and ask when
it was that the Ministers had felt a new-born
zeal for the poorer classes ? If it was intended to
give the people cheap bread, why not take the tax off
corn altogether—(Hear, hear)—and not put on that
which would act as a direct bread-tax ?He thought the
measures proposed would be productive of the worst re-
sults, and he should therefore vote for the amendment of
the Noble Lord, the Member for Liverpool.
Mr. ALSTON said that her Majesty's Ministers hav-
ing introduced to the House a measure of finance, it was
necessary that unlimited inquiry should take place with
respect to it, in order that the people might see
whether it would be beneficial or not. The com-
mercial tariff in this country, in his opinion, was ex-
tremely defective, and required great alteration.
Ile approved of the principles of the_ Government. and
was pleased-that he found himself in a situation to give
them his warm support on a measure which would greatly
tend to increase the comfort of the people, but he would
give the strongest opposition to any alteration that might
be proposed in the Corn-laws.—(Cheers.) On the sugar
question he would give them his unqualified support, and
that without giving any support to the system of slavery.
He had received a letter signed by nine members of the
Society of Friends ; four of them were delegates to the
Anti-Slavery Society, and they bore him out that until
we were prepared to prohibit the consumption of the
whole produce of slavery it would be punishing the people
o: this country, and without doing any good to the slave.
The country was greatly indebted to the Government for
bringing forward in so bold a manner, a proposition of
co much good to the poor, and he would give his vote
for going into Committee, although he would oppose
any motion, the purport of which was to alter the Corn-
laws.—(Cheers.)
Mr. HARLAND was sorry that upon that occasion he
felt himself bound to oppose the Government whom he
had generally supported, because if their proposition
were carried he was afraid it would put an end to the
prosperity of oar West India colonies.—(Hear, hear.)
He thought the pressure upon the finances of the coun-
try was but temporary, and they aught not to be called
upon to take a step that would so greatly and perma-
nently alter the protective system of the country.- The
great boon of the reduction of postage was granted, not
to the demands of the colonial interest or the agricultural
interest of the country—that great loss to the revenue
of the kingdom was granted at the almost unanimous
demand of the commercial and trading interests.—
(Cheers.) Believing that it would injure the interests
of the whole of our colonies, and that it would ,greatly
interfere with the safe working of the great experiment
of emancipation—that it would shake the whole of our
protective system, it became his painful duty to give his
vote for the amendment of the Noble Lord the Member
for Liverpool.

Mr. 11-ASTIE was anxious to state his entire appro-
bation of the proposition of the Government. As one
who had been all. his life engaged in the commerce of
the country, he hailed the • announcement made by the
Right Hon.' the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the
Noble Lord with unqualified pleasure ; indeed he felt
certain that the speech of the Noble Lord the Secretary
for the Colonies had given much pleasure to nearly the
whole of the mercantile world. The Hon. Member fOr
Beverley had stated that the whole of the merchants
trading to the East Indies were opposed to the measure
introduced by the Government. He did not know where
that Honourable Member obtained his information ;
but he, as Deputy Chairman of the East India
and China Association, had an opportunity of
seeing and learning the opinions of those connected with
tl-at trade, and he did not know of even one single ex-
ception to the general rule—the whole body concurred
in the principles announced by the Right Hon. Gentle-
man. The Hon. Member than stated that the whole
of the Directors of the East India Company were op-
posed to the measure—that might be so, but the House
taitotrelns
tmioVoefbythteh
hat 0 buos
ed yt
0.
tiwinoeulldvh recall the
ought to receive with very great caution any representa-
thHee
unli-
mited sway over India, and when it menerethleyy
proposed to
throw that immense empire open to thewas energies of the
British merchant, how strenuously
h they opposed that
most desirable measure—(Hear ear)--predicting all
manner of danger and failure. I•To what had been the
result of that boon ? India was th\rvo,
wn open to the en-
terprise of our merchants, and now,from an export of
half a million, we send upwards of five Inc illons of our
goods.—(Hear, hear.) Now, when they so little
of a country which had been so hno•new
own dominion, any representation
of under their
their
,be taken with much caution. Re was e must
that the Hon. Member for Beverley was not in his pelea,crry
for had he been present he would have liked to tell
hime,
that even upon the question of assimilating the duty
upon East and West India rum, they had to be urged
forward by canvassing among the Proprietors. He was
very glad that the Government were going to revise the
tariff of the country. We had now, undoubtedly, arrived
at the maximum rate of taxation upon the imports into
this country, and by a wise reduction they would afford
relief to the poor and the middle classes in this country,
and at the same replenish the exhausted treasury. He
believed that the landed interest in this country were not
aware of the injurious effect to themselves of the present
Corn-laws. The landed interest he thought to be the
first in importance in the country, but it could not
prosper while the mercantile and manufacturing interests
were depressed. They were all too closely bound up to-
gether for any one to flourish while the others were in
a state of suffering. It would be in the recollection of
Hon. Members an of every farmer in England, that last
season was rather unfavourable. There were fears enter-
tained of a short crop. The consequence was that mer-
chants and corn speculators sent out their orders for grain
to all parts of the Continent, and they purchased to the
amount of two millions of quarters, for which they gave
bills. Those bills got into all the markets of the Conti-
nent, and being too plentiful they.lowered the exchange
against this country. Then came in the capitalist, who,
in order to profit by such a state of things, drained off
our gold to purchase the bills. The Bank of England
then was obliged to raise the rate of interest in order to
stop such a drain upon their coffers. Traders could not
get money to continue their purchases of our manufac-
tures, stocks increased, and the manufacturer was obliged
to come down to work his machinery only half
time, to the great distress of the working population.
While these speculations were going forward, the price
of corn was rising in the market, and who was benefited
by it ?—not the farmer, because he had previously as-