The Sun.
London, England, 1847-07-03 00:00:00

for not giving his assent to this Bill, and upon these
grounds he felt it his duty to give his vote against it.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that he felt ne-
cessary to trouble their Lordships for some few moments
in answer to the Noble Lord who had last spoken. He
was very happy to say that, although there were few of the
acts of the Poor-law Commissioners which were open to
objection, yet their justification was of necessity given
by a tedious and circuitous route, and lost with the
public very much of the effect which the immediate and
prompt vindication of their conduct would have,and which
could be given, by one of their body publicly in Parlia-
ment. A great deal of the objection which had been raised
to the Poor-law Commissioners bad been raised in con-
sequence of their proceeding, as it were, secretly and in
the dark; and this provision would at once remove that
unfailing cause of disturbance and clamour. His Noble
Friend had stated many difficulties as likely to arise
from the connexion of this officer with the Government.
There were other officers connected with the Govern-
ment whose situations were quite as open to the attacks
and strategems of the opposition for party- purposes as
even this one could be, and he (the Marquis of Lans-
downe) saw no reason why the gentleman who
filled this office should be „particularly selected as
the ob.i,ect of this sort of interference any
more ttan those gentlemen who now held official situa-
tion' in connexion with the Government. He would
11) -so say, to the honour of the country, that none of those
gentlemen had, except in rare instances, been made the
object of any annoyance to the Government by unfounded
charges; but, on the contrary, any interference which
had taken place, was only with the view of obtaining
answers to fair and legitimate questions. The Secre-
tary of State for the Home Department was an officer
who was quite as likely to be made the subject of these
unfounded charges, for in his hands was the power of
life and death; he had the power of deciding whether
the criminal should suffer the last extremity of the law,
and to him the relations and friends frequently came to
intercede, and be issued his fiat unchecked or uncon-
trolled, for execution or otherwise; and yet he had neessa.
heard any instance in which any attempt at getting, up
charges for party purposes had been made. What had
fallen from his Noble and Learned Friend did re at re.„
quire any further answer from him, and he hopsAl that
their Lordships would ge into Committee with, jut feel-
ing that this Bill was likely to create those wedis which
his Noble and Learned Friend had described
After a few words in explanation from Lord
BROUGHAM,
Lord STANLEY said that he entirely concurred in
the statement which had been 'made 'oy his Noble and
Learned Friend near him, That the appointment of
this officer in connexion with the Government should
create some risk of undue interference with these laws
for party purposes, but he f.dd think that it would also be
a check upon any undue administration of the law by the
commissioners, by the appointment of on officer with a
Parliamentary responsibility. He thought that if that
officer had been appointed in connexion with the Minis-
try before the present time, many misrepresentations
which had gained credence and gone abroad, would have
been contradicted and satisfactorily denied. He thought,
however, that the Parliamentary responsibility men-
tioned by the Noble Marquis would rest as much upon
the Government generally as upon the officer appointed,
and thus a connexion would be formed which would
render it the interest of that officer to countenance and
support the interference of the Government in these laws
whatever it might be. Upon the whole, however re-
luctantly and doubtfully, he leaned towards the opinion
that it was desirable to connect this officer with the Go-
vernment—for then much of that misrepresentation, and
unfounded persecution, lately sustained by the Poor-law
Commissioners would either be at once sustained and
proved, or publicly and promptly denied. He thought
that, under all the circumstances, the connexion of this
commissioner with the Government was advisable, and,
therefore, without going into any other principle of the
Bill at that time, he should give it his support.
Lord COLCHESTER very much feared that this plan
would not secure to her Majesty's Ministers that secu-
rity from unfounded imputations which be (Lord Col-
chester) thought was one of the objects of this Bill ; for,
inasmuch as this commissioner was to be connected with
the Government, any charge brought against him must
be brought against them all. Though he only would
attempt to refute or deny any of these accusations. He
did not dissent from the principle of the measure, but he
certainly thought it capable of very material improve-
ment.
Earl ST. GERMANS said that his Noble Friend
had taken off the half-and-half responsibility which was
at present incurred by her Majesty's Government, par
titularly the Secretary of State for the Home Depart-
ment—with respect to the administration of the poor •
laws—in common with the Poor-law Commissioners.
That objection would still exist, even though one of
these commissioners were to have a seat in Parliament,
unless the whole of the Board of Commissioners was
re-constructed by the Government, before taking that
step.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE then rose, and ad-
dressed the House briefly, but his observations were quite
inaudible in the gallery.
The House then resolved itself into Committee upon
the Bill.
On clause 1 being proposed,
Lord ELLENBOROUGH moved that the words—
First Lord of the Treasury—be inserted in the list of
commissioners to be appointed.
Earl GREY said that he did not think that the inser-
tion of these words would do any harm, neither would
they be of the slightest use ; he did not think that any
sing'e beneficial object would be answered by the inser-
tion of these words.
Clauses 1 to 9 wre then agreed to.
On clause 10 being proposed,
Lord REDESDALE moved the omission of this
clause—it threw a large amount of patronage into the
hands of the Government, at the most dangerous time
it could be done, namely, on the eve of a general
election.
After some desultory conversation, the House divided,
when there appeared—
For the amendment—Contents
Non. contents
Majority for Non-contents
The Duke of RICHMOND then moved a clause to
the effect—that if the board of guardians, after a period
of three months, did not appoint a visiting committee,
and that visiting committee did not perform its duty by
visiting the workhouses to take care that the poor were
not ill-treated by those placed over them. It should be
imperative on the Poor-law Commissioners to appoint a
visitor, and that visitor to be paid out of the rates of
that union. This clause was, in his opinion, absolutely
necessary for ,the protection of the poor who were re-
ceiving relief in the workhouses, and for the purpose of
compelling the board of guardians to perform their duties.
After a brief discussion, the clause was withdrawn.
The remaining clauses of the Bill were then agreed to.
The House then resumed, and the Bill was reported to
the House, with amendments.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of,
and their Lordships adjourned until Four o'clock to-
morrow.

ROUSE OF COMMONS. July 2.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
NAVIGATION-LAWS.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL then moved that the Navi-
gation-laws Bill be read a second time.
Lord GEORGE BENTINCK rose to oppose the
motion. He did so because he thought the present mea-
sure was a pretext to undermine the present navigation-
laws. Since the suspension of those laws, innumerable
vessels, in all parts of the world, had been waiting for
freight and could not get it. There had not been more
than one or two ships from the Mediterranean since the
suspension of the laws, and at present .rates were every
day falling at Alexandria, Constantinople, and Odessa.
He therefore contended that the necessity for the further
suspension of the navigation-laws had entirely passed
away. With regard to the small vessels from the Elbe
and the Weser, which formed so large an item in the re-
turn of the number of foreign grain-laden vessels, which
hid been laid on the table, the further suspension of the
laws from September to March would be wholly inope-
rative.—(Hear, hear.) If the Noble Lord had been so
desirous as it was stated to bring in a large supply of
foreign corn cheaply, he might have spared the five
steam-ships that were cruising off Portugal for that pur-
pase, and by this means he would have done far more
good than by suspending the navigation-laws.—(Hear,
hear.) This was the course pursued by France, and it
was productive of the greatest advantage to the trade
and commerce of that country. If this suspension of
the navigation- laws was to be considered as preliminary
to the abrogation of these laws, he would ask the Noble
Lord how he proposed to man the navy ?—(Hear, hear.)
America had attained the great eminence which at pre-
sent characterised the navy, not, as it was falsely
stated, by relaxing the navigation-laws, but by giving
her shipping the greatest protection. In 1814 the
British navy was manned by 114,000 men, and now the
nutuber was not more than 30,000. It might be said
that when the corn-laws were repealed the navigation-
lavis must share the same fate. He did not see the con-
nexion which existed between them, or that the one
followed as a necessary consequence of the other. It
gave him great pain to see some shipowners supporting
corn-laws at the time that measure
the' abolition of the
wag brought forward, and he sincerely hoped that they
sheilld not have °cotsion to regret the part which they
interest.—(Hear, bear.)
took against the agricultural i
Re )had" a comparative statement of theest number of grain-
laden ships that came to this
September last to
St-It% of America, from the 10th of
country from the United
the' n. of May There were
Of these
Cr t Britain ;rid 450 to the United States.
the e 'ger,. ' 294 vessels belonging to
thei voyages, thewrell
any acc....,-ut at sewere 21 American; of
a, while there
tho that were ob *g
of those which
t
-wedere 3 British .
ellly 3 of theto former erwhich had met with
and 17 American;
throSrieatt; and of those e r cargoes
vn overboard ;l'ear obliged to have thei
4 British,while that had been stranded there were
there' were 12
pilot had not lost his cunning, and cheers.) This, he thoughtAaserican.—(Hear, hear,
proved that the British
g, nor the British sailor his
Were 6 British and 27 Arne-
skill or energy; and, believii
navaleg superiority,
have the effect of desire tog tthheetshtihis•mea
contributed to
isnutreerewstosuoldf
sixmmove that the
this 'country, and of undermining their:a
atnhyeiropthoewrere,shusse would
tl-heiidrhg,remsotnreestshaannd
Dill ibe read a second time that day
Lord J. RUSSELL said, I do not pr°onths. to
,ider—and I hope that this House will noptoscao i Con.
that this is a question with regard to the repej'as consider-.
r
navigation-laws.—(Hear, hear.) Whatever may be thethe
merits of these laws—whether it may be right to main-
tain them inviolate—whether it is right to make certain
changes in them, or right to repeal them altogether—
that is not the question brought before the House under
the present Bill. All that I will say, therefore, on that
Duct of the supposition of the Noble Lord—and which
occupied a cousiderable part of his address to the House
-is, that I beg to remind the House that, when the
Committee upon the navigation-laws was appointed to
sit, it wan a question of the most serious importance to

the con atry, and in the consideration of the report of bring it. My argument is that if you have a ship which
that Co mmittee, or the evidence which authorised any brings corn to you, you ought not to say " this is
altered on to be made in the navigation-laws, this House American corn, it
has been taken from on board;
is bow id to consider the burdens upon British ship- it has been landed at Havre, and brought again
owners , and take into consideration any disadvantage here. I will not admit it—you must take it back
they re ay have to contend with, at the same time that it again." My argument is that if you admit corn
conside srs any restrictions which are to be a imposed upon —if you have a necessity for the admission of corn, it
foreie 9 shipping. That will be at last for our con- ought to be admitted in whatevee ships it may come.
sides eation; but the question now before the House is, What are the prospects for the next year? Who can
whe that the present navigation-laws shall be suspended tell, however sanguine may be the expectation at
—at id it must be obvious to the House that we may sus- the present moment, the weather of the next six weeks
pent 1 laws of this nature without at all affecting the will give us a bountiful and abundant, harvest ? Who
prin miple upon which they are founded. With respect can tell whether the harvest of the continent of Europe
to Ihe very question of the corn-laws, the corn-laws will be bountiful? Who can tell whether the great
hay 6 been, during the last fifty years, frequently sus- abundance with which America has been blessed during
pen tied; sometimes for six months, sometimes fora year, the past year will be continued in the present year,
and 1 sometimes for two years, the great majority of both and that we may not have at another time, not only the
11' lases of Parliament at the same time maintaining the difficulty of getting supplies of corn in England,
1301 Icy 'of these laws, and firm on the principle that they and Europe, but the difficulty of having the large sup-
oil' Ai not to be altered. This may be urged in regard plies we have had in the- present year from America?
to the navigation-laws, and I own that lam surprised Let us not forget, with regard to this subject, that the
a',, the Noble Lord and his friends taking this course price of corn has lately been as high, taking into consi-
wills . regard to the navigation-laws at the present mo• deration the depreciation of the currency, as it was at
me it, having consented to the suspension of the corn- any period of the past year ; and let us not forget what
law n. It appears to me that if you consented in prin- is the most remarkable part or the present subject—that
cipl fe to the suspension of the corn-laws you
,will be there is an extraordinary consumption. But there have
per fectly justified in coming before the next Parliament been very large imports from the seats of foreign
ate I Saying, "We have not given up the principle of trade, and there have been a very great num-
pro tection—the Parliament which has been dissolved ber of railway works ' • and I believe that they
Was" greatly in error in doing away with that principle, have in many respects
diminished or alleviated the
and iwe require a sliding scale or a fixed duty on corn, calamities under which we are suffering by causing a
for that even is a system found upon a better policy considerable demand for labour. But, at the same time,
th an the total repeal of these laws." You would when I look to the amount of calls upon railways from
be perfectly justified in raising such an argu- January to this time, and I find that there has been mu-
m eat ; it is probably not a strong answer ployed twenty-one millions, of which somewhat more
to each a proposition to say that you are precluded from than eighteen millions are required for the United King-
minlking such a proposition, because you suspended the dons, it is impossible not to see that the expenditure of a
ce trn-laws during the past year. If that is the case with very large portion of this sum must have led to a con •
r egard to the navigation-laws, it cannot be urged as siderable consumption which would not have taken
' .:owing against the navigation-laws, that there has been place if there had not been so extraordinary
's n certain period in which you proposed to suspend those an expenditure. That consumption again leads to
laws. The Noble Lord, having consented to the suspen- an increased price, and of course leaves less of the
sion of the corn-laws, declares that the navigation-laws whole amount of food to be divided amongst the
ought not to be suspended. Now, what is the ground people of this country. But the construction of railways
for suspending the corn-laws? It is expected that there has in one sense tended to the augmentation of the diffi-
will be a great quantity of corn brought into this culty, for I believe that they have mainly caused the
country, and therefore it is the policy of this country to consumption which is so much greater than has ever
use every means by which that admission may be free before taken place with so high a price of provisions—.
and open to all, and if that principle is good with for this extraordinary. consumption must tend to make
regard to the corn which is to be admitted, the quantity of food in the country last for a shorter
why should it not be held good with regard period than it would otherwise do. Taking all tese
to the vessels in which that corn is brought ? If you circumstances into consideration, the general result is
admit corn free of duty, you must also take measures to that the policy of Parliament ought to be to throw open
admit that corn as freely as possible, whatever may be the ports as widely as possible for the admission of
the vessel in which that corn may come—we should not food, and to take away every restriction which
ask any questions with respect to the lading of these would prevent one single quarter of corn from
vessels, or their country, or the parties who own them; coming into this country, if you mean to keep up at all
but because they bring provisions, on that ground we the good condition of the labouring people, and, lastly,
admit them. It appears to me that the two questions if you look to the state of the revenue in connexion with
stand upon a perfectly similar footing, and it is quite all these circumstances, you will find that you ought to
inconsistent for the Noble Lord, havingagreed to sus- pursue the policy of free and indiscriminate admission
pesid the present corn duties, to raise a new objection for corn. Having come to this general conclusion, I
to the suspension of this other law, and thus impose a again refer to the plan of the Noble Lord, and again re.
restriction upon the admission of corn from which the peat that we will not on this question discuss the pro•
duty is removed. The Noble Lord says, and says truly, priety of the existence of the navigation-laws. That sub-
that I stated the other day that I was prepared to argue tect will most probably be brought under the con-
that if 500,000 quarters of corn came in under the re- sideration of Parliament when the evidence which has
cent suspension of the navigation-laws, still I should be been taken by the Committee has been considered, and
prepared to contend that these laws ought to be further for my part I promise to pay serious attention to that
suspended. I did so declare myself, because I think that evidence whenever it shall be produced. I think that
the necessity of the country is such that we ought not there is no question which has so many various sub-
to impose any restrictions whatever, and that the best is jects—as relates to our commercial marine—as relates
to make the admission of corn as free as possible— to the state of our naval power, and as relates likewise
whether the benefit arising from that admission may be to the general principle of freedom of intercourse—there
small or may be large. At least 1 have asserted that is in fact no question which can be put on so many
principle, and I have taken away any restriction under various bases as the navigation-laws. I am most
which corn is admitted. That as an argument is perfectly unwilling to discuss such a subject towards the close
good, whatever may be the amount of corn admitted. of the session with the Committee sitting—(Hear)—
The Noble Lord has agreed as to the quantity of corn and taking evidence upon it, and Ishould not be justified
admitted—he has agreed to those returns, which lin prot ()sing any determination to be taken upon such a
believe, with regard to most of the ports in the United subject. I shall be ready to consider any determination
Kingdom from which those returns have been received, to be taken with reference to the general principle of
are correct. I find with regard to London and Liver- commercial policy—with reference to the effect of these
pool the quantities are the same. laws upon it—with reference to the altered state of the
Lord G. BENTINCK—You have no return from world—and with reference, lastly and chiefly, to the
Liverpool naval force and naval supremacy of this country.
Lord J. RUSSELL—With regard to some of the Mr. RICARDO said that he did not think the general
ports, I believe that the custom-house has made an error question of the navigation-laws at all involved in this dis-
with regard to the quantity which might have come in if cussion. He was surprised that the Noble Lord the Member
the navigation-laws had not been suspended, and there for Lynn had made a charge against the Government that
may be some alteration necessary in the general return, they were seeking to undermine the shipping interest of
but as to the total amount which it represents it is pro- the country, and he could not help thinking that in
bably correct as to what has been introduced. The opposing this measure the Noble Lord had some
amount introduced has been brought in by 508 ship -, electioneering manoeuvre in view. The measure in his
amounting in tonage to 63,555 tons. The Noble Lord opinion would do no injury whatever to the shipping
says that it would have been far better to have sent interest, but if they ado pted theof
line-of battle ships, which could introduce corn the Noble Lord to
bring line-of-battlesugg ships pinto
from foreign countries. I argued this question at competition with the merchant-traders, it would be in-
the commencement of the session, and satisfied one Hon. flitting an irreparable injury upon the iree commerce of
Gentleman, who made a motion upon that subject, that the country.—(Hear, hear.) He hoped the time was
in the first place the amount of tonnage of the line-of- coming when the good old days would be revived, and
battle ships which we should have at our command when they should see English and American ships
would have been small ; and, in the second place, it crossing the Atlantic with ballast and returning laden with
would have taken some time to have fitted up these line- goods or corn. The period was fast approaching when,
of battle ships so as to be prepared for the reception of in his opinion, these laws must be altogether abolished;
corn ; and, in the next place, that it would have taken and he thought, when the House was put in possession
them away from any military service in which they of the evidence taken before the Navigation Committee,
might be required. Supposing that any question like it would be inclined to agree with him.—(Hear.)
the question of Otaheite, which arose a few years Mr. LIDDELL said the present was not a fitting op-
since, were to arise with any foreign power, it portunity to enter upon a discussion of the merits of the
would have been a great disadvantage to the navigation-laws, and he should, therefore, confine his
public, to have found ourselves crippled by the employ- observations to the Bill before the House.
merit of these ships, so necessary for the service of the It did not follow that because his Noble Friend,
country for some other purposes. The last argument the Member for Lynn had consented to a
which J used, and which was the strongest of all, was, that further suspension of the corn-laws, he ought to agree
when the State interfered in subjects of this nature, the to this measure. The navigation laws had already been
more it proclaimed that it was about to undertake to fur- suspended for a sufficient length of time, and he could
nish that which commerce usually furnishes, the more it not see what advantage was to be derived from con-
had disturbed and checked and discouraged the natural tinning the suspension during a period when the
enterprise and trade of the country.(Hear, hear.) trade of many countries was shut up by national
Now, what will the tonnage of the Queen, the Trafalgar, causes. The Honourble Gentleman who last addressed
the Albion, and the Rodney amount to if they are the House ridiculed the idea of bringing line-of-
estimated ? The Queen, 3,104 tons; the Albion battle ships into competition with merchant traders, but
3,110 tons ; and supposing the other two ships he (Mr. Liddell) thought the lion. Gentleman had mis
to be of equal amount, or nearly so, we would understood the remarks of the Noble Lord the Member
have had 12,000 tons available for these purposes. for Lynn. The Noble Lord did not make the suggest
63,555 is the amount of tonnage which foreign ships have tion attributed to him by the Hon. Gentleman. What he
introduced into this country, and which could not have said was, that at a time when several ships laden
been introduced except by a suspension of the navigation. with corn, and bound to this country, were unable to
laws, and they have left you to have the employment of obtain egress into the Atlantic by stress of weather,
these ships for any other purposes you might require. there were several ships of war cruising off Portugal and
The Noble Lord lies introduced an assertion in his doing nothing, which might have been better employed
speech which has nothing at all to do with the present in assisting these ships out of their difficulties.—(Hear.)
discussion—namely, the policy pursued in Portugal. He would not detain the House any further,
That has nothing whatever to do with this subject, be- would sit down imploring the Noble Lord' and he
at the
cause if these ships had not been in Portugal they would head of the Government to give his most serious and at-
have been in the Mediterranean. They are part of the tentive consideration to the subject of the navigation-
military marine of the country, and are the laws, and not too hastily come to a conclusion upon it.
kind of force on which this country must rely Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he wished to tell the
in case of any sudden danger. But these foreign ships Hon. Gentleman that he had understood him (Lord John
have done all this work—they have done five timea as Russell) quite correctly, and he questioned if the navi-
much as these vessels could have done for the benefit of eation-laws ought to be left for future deliberation.
the country, and without the expense. They have sent Mr. TRELA eIeNY supported the Bill.
these ships, and they have done it without any expense Mr. S. HERBERT said, so far as this Bill was con-
further than the natural payment or profit charges corned he had no sort of objection to its passing. lan
I are paid and expected by merchants. Therefore was most anxious that there should continue to be an
I entirely dissent, as I said at the beginning of this ample !supply of food in this country and in Ireland,
session, from this plan. I disagree with the plan of particularly during the fruit season, and without giving
bringing out a corps of line-of-battle ships for the pur- any opinion upon. the large and important question of
pose of bringing foreign corn into this country. But the navigation.laws, he was not disposed to resist the
beyond this, let this House consider for one moment progress of this temporary measure. He did most sin-
this question apart from the question of the navi- cerely regret that the Government had abandoned a Bill
gation-laws. What has been the immense ins or- which, if calculated to be useful at all, would be pre-
of of corn which has been carried on by the trade eminently useful in the present year,
of this country for the purpose of supplying the United Mr. MITCHELL would confine himself to the Kingdom with with food. We have had, as I shall presently tion of the expediency of these laws, and the question
show, an unprecedented high price in corn, but at the was, could ships be chartered at a lower rate of freight
same time the efforts which have been made by the trade than at present ? lie affirmed that they could not, and
of this country have been carried on to an enormous ex- therefore that did away with the necessity of the Bill.
tent. Some time ago the importation of corn was at the Taking all the freights together, the freights were 30
rate of nine millions of quarters, but during the last per cent. higher than they had been last year. It should
month, and indeed latterly, at the rate of twelve millions be recollected that the greater part of the British ship-
of quarters in the year, and in some particular weeks it ping was employed in the conveyance of corn, which
has exceeded that amount; but altogether, 'believe, when they took in preference to other freights. He did not
the accounts are made out, that there has been an ins- see, therefore, that any necessity now existed either for
mense importation—a greater importation than ever was sending ships of war to bring corn to this country, or
known, and I should say that not less than six millions for the-suspension of these laws.
of our people may have been fed during the present year Mr. AARON CHAPMAN fully agreed with the
by that importation from foreign countries. Compare Hon. Member who had just sat down, that it would
that with with any effort which could have been made have been imprudent to have used ships of war in the
by line• of-battle ships. Compare this immense amount carrying of corn, and he as fully disagreed with the ar-
of corn and shipping, owing solely to the enterprise of guments of the Hon. Member opposite (Mr. Trelawny),
merchants • and importers. Compare these with any who appeared to found all his arguments on his knowledge
efforts the Government could make, and then you may of the Royal Yacht Club.—(Laughter.) In his opinion
estimate the fact that, by throwing open the ports, the safety of this country depended upon our navy, and
and giving the intercourse with foreign countries, the efficiency of that navy depended upon the encourage-
you have saved the people from suffering ment of the shipping now employed in commerce. He
from want of food. But the Noble Lord seems to think thought that the Bill was not required, and should not
that this must be a repeal of the navigation-laws, because be proceeded with.
there are no extraordinary circumstance--that the feces- Mr. TRELAWNY explained.
city has passed. He says that there are no circumstances Lord JOHN MANNERS said that after the declare-
which require this.
Lion of the Noble Lord that he would give this measure
Lord G. BENTINCK—I said that the necessity would his unbiassed consideration next year, he (Lord J. Man-
have passed away by the lit of September. ners) was not disposed to oppose the further suspension
Lord J. RUSSELL--Now let me ask the attention of of the navigation-laws.
the House to the extraordinary circumstances which have Mr. HUDSON saithat he did not thin would be
occurred in the last fewmonthr. Therehas been in France wise at present
to obstruct the Government,k it
for he was
a very great failure of the crops. It was estimated that prepared to grant that so interests in the country
France at one time had only 18 days' consumption, at an- might be benefited by
other 25 days ; and some went so high as to say that 40 laws for a time.
days' consumption of food was wanting—that the supply Mr. FORSTER ho d
was to that extent deficient. That deficiency extended to not at the forth the suspensionme of the navigation-
coming elution raise a cry in favour of
Germany to a very great extent, so much so, that corn the shipowners similar that which-in 1841 they raised
upon the Rhine had risen at one time to 90s. per quay- for the agriculturists to
former
. Pe that the Protectionists would
ter, and the peace of the country was disturbed in Prus- be very pa t to ima "
sia, and in other parts, owing to the extraordinary rise same.—(Hear, hear.)
in provisions. This bas called for importation from all Lord G. BENTINgiCia
, because the interests would
after what had been said
parts of Europe and America from which any supply he should not put the Et said,
was to be had. There has been an extraordinary supply and should withdraw his use
to
Ke that. their fate would be the
amendment"
from America, and there has been, as I have stated, a The Bill was then read
very great importation to this country. France had re- be committed on Monday.
a second time,
FoUu
sSe Tt Oh
eDn the trouble ou b I
and
f a division,
ordered
to
quired a great part of the importation from the Black
Sea, and that corn which, if there had been a good The 1 YvveOnFt
inOtoFFCEnnlNmDiEttßeeSonßtlhLisL.
Bill,
and
harvest in France, would have been brought here, has the clauses, after some verbal amendments, were agreed
been taken to France for the consumption of that country. to.—Report on Monday.
ecitohßnnlLwLw.
In the month of January we thought the case so urgent,
that we proposed a suspension of the corn duty and the Lord MAHON PRISONS hether, after what
navigation-laws, and that suspension was at once agreed occurred, the Noble Lord intended to proceed with this
to. The average price for the preceding six weeks to Bill during the
.present session. He thought, con-
that time was 635. I°l Per quarter, and in one week sidering the period of the session, and the absence
preceding the price vvas so high as 70s. 10d. per quarter. of many Honourable Members who took
Under these circumstances, the House agreed una- much interest in the matter, it would be
nimously to the suspension of these laws. Since that advisable, and more c d "
on ucive to the public interests, if
time there has been
a most extraordinary rise in the it were withdrawn. There certainly was no haste for
of corn, and we have seen corn . in Mark-la rise it; and
Mark-lane
price
d on one day, I believe 115 s. per not press it on a thin lieu
to 100 s., 1083., an , .
se, but adopt his suggestion.
hear.) The pricehas againfallen,
' but Lord JOHN RUSSELL would take the Noble Lord's
quarter.—(Hear,
the last six weeks, by the London suggestion into consideration,- his Right
and
the average for
Gazette is 945. 10d. per quarter.—(Hear, hear.) The Friend (Sir George Grey) would, on Monday, state
price of ,
corn, let me repeat,
h the House consented the course which the Government
intended to adopt with
unanimously to the suspension ; w o enf
the navigation-laws, respect to the measure.
9swhen the price is STOCK-IN-TRADE EXEMPTION BILL.
was 636. 10d. per quarter ; and now,
945. 10d. per quarter, unreasonable Oa the second reading
I am told that it is
innse to ask that suspension to be continued. The Sir R. H. INGLIS deprecated the changing of the law
Noble Lo d
September, tile without discussing its principles and its influence on those
r says that upon the Ist of
for who would be affected by
necessity will havepassed Who can tell that it. He considered that the Bill
away. .., proposed too sweeping
this country the n
a ebaTeee in the law, and that any
.essit will have passed awe", r
Lord G. BENTefliirj r • the ..'' e D . , change should be gradua1...._.(11,,,,..) unless they Were
--.L said r,,Teldit, .:,,.. 6,4,.., that is the whore quez"..• , r-- — ' prepared to bring in a general Bill they would do great
Lord J. RUSSLLe.u.. e . i .'esi•ice to a large portion of the country. If they were
Ile neeeisity for .h.p., ....IL , 1,,c •'.1••••
have passed away—th— prepared to rate stock in trade, the owner of tithes had
at is my whole argument; if we .
have a necessity f
to complain • but if they did not do so they
or 0041 there is a necessity for ships to no right n ,

would inflict a grievous injustice upon them. He did not
intend to divide the House ; but, unless the Right Hon.
Baronet gave a pledge that he would bring such a Bill
as the one he had recommended next session, he should
be compelled to do so.
Sir G. GREY admitted that the subject was fraught
with difficulties. The Bill had been brought in in ac
cordance with a decision of the Court of Queen's Bench.
lie was ready to admit that the subject required future
legislation, and, no doubt, mature consideration might
lead him to bring forward a more general and unobjec
tionable measure than the one before the House.—
(Hear.) He did not think any greater burden would
be placed upon the tithe owner than on the owners of
any other deicription of property.—(Hear.)
Sir .JOHN TROLLOPE would rather that this Act
should be made a permanent one than that the question
should be mooted annually. He did not think that the
statements of the Right Hon. Baronet were so explicit
as the House had a right to expect.
Mr. HENLEY thought it would be impossible to make
the Act permanent. He admitted that the subject was
one that ought to be looked at with a very jealous eye.
It the law was not either put an end to or suspended, it
would lead to eternal litigation.
After some observations from Mr. NEWDEGATE,
Mr. HUDSON expressed a hope that the Government
would turn their attention to the rating of railways, as
at present he thought the mode of rating those under-
takings was most unjust. In some instances railways
paid two-thirds of the rate of the county through which
they passed. He trusted that Government would
either bring in a Bill on the subject, or grant a Select
Committee to take the matter into consideration.
After a few words from Colonel ROLLESTON,
Sir ROBERT INGLIS said that he would not press
the House to a division, but he hoped the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman the Home Secretary would take the subject into
consideration during its recess, and bring forward a mea-
sure next session for the purpose of removing the evils
which at present existed on the subject of rating.
After a few words from Mr. B. ESTCOTT and Sir C.
BURRELL,
_ _

Lord G. BENTINCK thought the subject too im-
portant to be discussed in such a thin House, when there
was no Cabinet Minister present except the Right Hon.
Baronet the Secretary of State for the Home Depart-
ment. This was one of the evils which -resulted from
their working double time. He should, therefore, move
that the House be counted.
Strangers were ordered to withdraw, but there was a
sufficient number of Members present to form a House.
Thdßill was then read a second time, and ordered to
be committed on Monday next.
The House then adjourned till Five o'clock.

The House resumed at Five o'clock.
SUTTON HARBOUR IMPROVEMENT BILL.
Sir J. Y. BULLER moved that the report from the
Committee on the Sutton Harbour Improvement Bill be
considered forthwith, prints of the amended Bill having
been deposited on Wednesday, the 30th day of June last.
Mr. GREENE suggested that the better course would
be to recommit the Bill.
Sir JOHN Y. BULLER would consent to the re-
committal of the Bill, provided that the Committee were
allowed to sit on Monday next.
This course was agreed to.
COMMIS -lON IN THE LORDS.
Sir Augustus Clifford, Usher of the Black Rod,
appeared at the bar and summoned the House to the
bar of the House of Lords, to hear the Royal assent
given by commission to several Bills.
The SPEAKER, accompanied by several Members, left
for the House of Lords.

On the return of the SPEAKER, he announced that
several Bills (for which see Lords' report) had received
the Royal assent.
LORDS' AMENDMENTS.

The Lords' auaendments to the following Bills were
considered and agreed to :

Ashton Gas

Calpdonian Railway (Branches to Canonbie, &c.)
Chard Canal and Railway (Extension and Amalgamaton)
Dublin and Drogheda Railway (Purchase of Navan
Branch, &c.)
East Lothian Central Railway
Eastern Union and the Ipswich and Bury Saint Ed-
mund's Railways Amalgamation
Edinburgh Waterworks

Glasgow-, Dumfries, and Carlisle Railway, and Glasgow,
Paisley, Kilmarnock. and Ayr Railway (No. 1).
Glasgow, Dumfries, and Carlisle Railway, and Glasgow,
Paisley, Kilmarnock, and Ayr Railway (No. 2).
GI isgow, Dumfries, and Carlisle Railway, and Glasgow,
Paisley, Kilmarnock, and Ayr Railway (No. 4).
Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock, and Ayr Railway, and
Glasgow and Belfast Union Railway (No. 1).
Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock, and Ayr Railway
(No. 2).
Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock, and Ayr Railway
(No. 4).
London and North-Western Railway (Portobello and
Wolverhampton Branch, &c.)
Manchester, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire Railway, and
Manchester and Lincoln Union Railway, and Ches-
terfield and Gainsborough Canal Amalgamation.
Midland Great Western Railway of Ireland (Extension
from Athlone to Galway).
Newport, Abergavenny, and Hereford Railway (Exten-
sion to Taff Vale Railway).
Northampton and Banbury Railway.
Parkgate and Chester and Birkenhead Junction Railway.
South Staffordshire Railway (Cannock, Wyrley, and
Norton Branches, &c.)
Swansea and Amman Junction Railway.
York Improvement (Lendal Bridge and Approaches).
Colonel SIBTHORP presented a petition from a great
number of officers employed in the administration of the
por-law in England and Wales, praying that the Go-
vernment would grant a superannuation fund:
MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.
Messengers from the Lords brought up the following
Bills, which their Lordships have agreed to :—Baths
and Washhouses Bill—Manchester, Sheffield, and Lin-
colnshire Railway (Branch at Bugsworth to join the
Peak Forest Canal Tramway, and Amendment of Acts)
Bill—Midland Railway (Leicester and Swannington
Railway Widening, Deviations, and Branches, Enlarge-
ment or Leicester Station, and extending Powers as to
Branch) Bill—and to Amendments to Hodgson Hinde's
Estate Bill, without Amendment;—Juvenile Offenders
Bill—Midland Railway (Erewash Valley, &c.) Bill—
Kilmarnock Police and Improvement Bill—Boston,
Stamford, and Birmingham Railway (Wisbech to Sutton
Bridge, &c.) Bill—Edinburgh and Northern Railway
(Burntisland Pier, &c.) Bill, with Amendments.
RELIEF COMMITTEES.
Mr. B. OSBORNE presented a petition from Long.
ford, in Ireland, praying that the House would institute
an inquiry into the operation of the relief committees in
Ireland.

EXCISE LAWS.

Mr. EWART presented a petition numerously signed
by wine and spirit dealers, praying for a revision of that
part of the excise law which prohibited the sale of more
than two gallons of spirit by retail ; also a petition in
favour of the Health of Towns Bill.
Ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. WARD moved that the Committees on public
and private Bills have leave to sit to-morrow.
Agreed to.
Lord J. MANNERS moved an address for copies
of the correspondence between the Lord Primate of all
Ireland and Sir Robert Peel, relating to education in
Ireland in 1845 ; and also between the Lord Primate
and Lord John Russell, on the same subject, in 1847.
Agreed to.
PUNISHMENT IN THE ARMY.
Major LAYARD wished to put a question to the
Secretary at War respecting the death of John Rad-
cliffe, late a private in the 75th Regiment. The circum-
stances of the case, which he gathered from Saunders's
News Letter, were these :—" The man Radcliffe was
charged with shooting at his sergeant-major, but it
would seem that the man fired with a blank cartridge.
Nevertheless, Colonel Halifax, the commander of the
regiment, made a severe order of punishment, and the
man, in consequence, cut his throat with a razor. The
jury that sat upon the coroner's inquest returned the
following verdict :—" We find that the deceased came
by his death in consequence of having inflicted a
wound upon his throat while labouring under
temporary insanity, produced by the severity of the
order made by Colonel Halifax." The order alluded to
in this verdict, was to the effect that the hair of Radcliffe
was to be cut close, that he was to be kept in strict
confinement, and if any man spoke to him he was im-
mediately to be put in confinement. He was to be
paraded before his comrades, and then marched to Ath-
lone, to take his trial before a district court-martial.
Now the question he wished to ask was, had the Horse-
Guards received any report upon the subject?
Mr. FOX MAULE said Colonel Halifax was a gen-
tleman of high military standing and honour, and a man
suited in every respect to be placed in command of a body
of men. Radcliffe, who was a private in the 10th Hussars,
fired at his sergeant-major, not with a blank cartridge,
as stated by the Hon. and Gallant Member opposite, but
with ball, and Colonel Halifax being naturally jealous
of the honour and anxious to maintain the high cha-
racter of his regiment, made the order in question.
From the inquiries he had made, however, he did not
think that under all the circumstances, the man com-
mitted suicide in consequence of the order, for on a
former occasion, after he had been found drunk upon
the march, he made an attempt upon his life; and on
another occasion, while anticipating the result of bad
conduct, he threatened to put an end to his existence.