The Sun.
London, England, 1812-02-25 00:00:00

POLICE.

130 W-STREET.—Yesterday a case of arbitratinn,
between a-waster cabinet7maker and the journey-
hen, who made a piece of furniture, or book-case,
for the Queen's librdry, respelling the value of the
Workmanship, ••was brought before Mr. Justice
GRMIAM, for his decision, under the At a( Parlia-
Merit called the Arbitration Ad. The journeymen
fixed the price at ROL BJ. while the waster esti-
mated it at 751. only. Ile journeymen came down
to 771. and offered to. split the difference between
that sum and the 751.; but the master, after pro-
curing an arbitrator who reduced the value to 651.
only,- refused to pay wore.-,—The Magistrate, after
a patient examinatift, ordered-the master to pay
-the 751.

Gawler, whose trial is expeaed to come on
shortly; was neither an es:ablislied nor an extra
Clef kin the Navy Office, but a person hired by the
Week'''as a temporary Clerk, to bring up arrears of
business. The established or, ex.ra Clerks are ap-
Pointed_ by t lie Board ; hose tempo! ary or wvehiy
Iwriters are hired on every emergency, wiCixout any
!egular appointment. _

DIRE; PARI,j/1211 Ern e

HOUSE OF PEERS.

MONDAY, FEE. 24

Sir S. ROMILLY and -Mr.-Hortisrait were iteaid for
the Appellant in this case; Messrs. ADAM and
M'CoNocuin for the Respondent and Sir S.
RQMILLY tin• the Appellant to reply:
The.LORD CHANCELLOR immediately proposed
the affirmation at the judgment of the Scots Court,
which was ordered accordingly.
The Ea,t India Loan, and the Coal Duties
Regulation Bills, were read a'third time and pas•ed.
• The Insolvent Debtors' Amendment, and the
House of Commons Officers' Bill, pas,ed through
Committees of. the whole House, and were subse-
quently reported.
Lord HOLLAND. presented a Petition for the
Debtors confined in Castle Rnshin, in the Isle of
Man, which he observed, presented such cases of
grievance and distress as must forcibly appeal to the
attention of the House. He therefore proposed
that the doctiment should be read by the Clerk.
The Petition was accordingly read at the table, and
referred to various grievances and privations yr hich
the said pri'oners described themselves as suffering
from the corresponding severity and hardship of the
operation of the Manx Laws, and from circum-
stances peculiar to Debtors in that part of the Em-
pire ; and praying such relief as their Lordships
should thinierneet.

lhe Petition was ordered to lie on the Table ;
as was also another Petition presented by his Lord-
ship from Debtors confined in the county pi! of
Carlisle.

The Earl of LIVERPOOL gave notice of his in-
tention to propose the second leading of the Not-
tingham Frame-breaking Prevention Bill to-
mot roW, and moved that the Lords be summoned.
Lord HOLLAND expressed his disapprobation of
the intended proceeding; t e notice was by far too
short ; the subject to hich th Bill referred should
undergo home previous investigation, w,re it only
to ascertain the eta et of the proceedings alieady
adopted with r, specs to the_ disiurbauces ; besides,
tLe principle of t;..e Measure bow proposed, was one
he could not, consistently-whit his duty to the coun-
try, support.

MU. JOHNSON, from the Irish Secretary of State's
Ottio., a rcinior Clerk of the Privy Council, and a
Mr. Johnson, from the 1,-ndon Dock Company,
presented sundry (locum, nis from their respective
departments, pursuit.), to former orders ot their
Lordships, pArticuiarly with reference to certain
Orders in Council.

The Earl of LtvEttroor. again addressed the House
on the subject of the Nottingham Fraifie Bill.
Understanding, be said, it would :e' a matter of
convenience to several Noble Lords, were the dis-
CIiSSIOLI 01 that measure postponed from to-morrow
to a future day, he therefore would propose that ti•e
debate St hould take place 01)-13 subsequent stage of the
Bill, and on Thursday, instead of to-morrow: In
.thit view he moved to discharge the order lot sum-
moning their Lordships to-morrow) and to xenew it
for Thursday, which proceedings accordingly took
place. •
On the motion of the Marquis of •LANSDOWNE, a
variety of documents touching the state of the Im-
ports an: Ex'ports in the years 1806-6-7-8, and .9,
were ordered to be laid before ' the House.—Ad-
journed till to-morrow.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

MONDAY, FEB. 24.

Accounts were presented from the London Dock
Company, and from the Transport Board.
Mr. GRATTAN; pestpoited the Committee on the
.10.01 Population Hill, until Thurs-lay next.
Ott the :potion of Mr. HIBBERT, an Account of
the quantity of Sugar imported each year, from the
:51h January, 181 0, to the 5111 January, i 212 ; and
also the clua:ttity exported for the same period, were
ordered to be laid bejore the House.

Lord PALMERSTONE brought up an Account of
the number of Recruits for the regular Army for the
last year.—Otd,reJ to be printed.

NOTT/NGHAM RIOT BILL.

Mr. Se,rutary Rxriza moved to postpone the fur-
ther consideration of the Nottingham Watch and
Ward Bill (on acoonnt of Some clauses necessary to
be adde' not being ready), until to-morrow.
Mr. EYRE obsered, that the state of the town, re-
quired the immediate passing of the Bill, and regret-
ted the delay, although hilt for one d.iy. The town
appeared to be in a state of tranquility, but the
rioters were so well disciplined and organized, that
they were ready at a moment's notice ; he there-
fore trusted the Bill would not again be delayed in
its progress.
The further consideration of the Bill was then
postponed till to-morrow.
The Committee on the Local Militia Bill, which
stood for to-morrow, was posponed by Mr. Sem-
tary Ryder until Wednesday.
Mr. H. MARTIN, on account of the press of other
more important business this evening, postponed
his motion respeaing the atlke of Registrar of the
Adiniralty Court until Friday.

FOREIGN TROOPS.
Mr. LUSHINGTON appeared Itt the Bar with the
Report of Coturnitiee of Supply.

On the question for bring up the Report,
Lord FOLKESTONE objetted to its being brought
up, until he had put some questions to the Noble
Lord who•had moved the Arthy Estimates. Them
had been, he obsiqvcd, for many years past, a very
I,,teat increase in the number of foreig troops taken
into British pay.- They had increased from 5 to
30,000.. This- alarming increase he viewed with
considerable jealousy, because it was not confined
to those regiments on forewn stations, tor foreigners
were enlisted, into battalions in the Hume Establish-
ment. Two A6ls had been passed, authorising the
Enlistment of this description of soldtets in the
course of the present reign,'but these Acas were to
be viewed in :the light of Atts- of indemnity to the
Government for basing violated the Constitution.—
What,. however, he • particulatly wished to call the
attention of the II use to, and to require explana-
tion from the Noble Lord, was with respect to the
cnlis;ment of these Foreign•troops into British b =t-
talious. He understood that the lad was so, :at
least it had been so slated to him. It it -Wati...not
true, the Noble Lord would into= the House. It

•
that - tiffi • i
had alsO blen told hm, la our cers la been
all Owed to recruit their r4irrients from among the
French prisf.l,:rs. He particularly alluded to -the
1001 Light Dragoons,' into which regiment he was
informed upward's of oae butrded men had veen
enlisted. It what he now stated was true, the
()tilers must have been wirer) by the Contrnand,ng
Officer, or from the War Office. I might he said
that the two Ads to whicii be had alluded would
sanaion the praCtice, but he should deny that any
Aa of Pat liament can justify sach a measure, or can
authorise the enlistment Of foreigners, except into
foreign corps. There was another circumstaoce
which demanded notice, and that was. pertnitting
Foreigners to hold commissions in British Regi-
ments. Such permission Was contrary to the A 7-1,
and was an evil daily inereasin4. He understood
there was:a Foreign General commanding a distrra
in this country. The Noble Lord, he trusted,
would explain these matters to the satisfaction of
the House.

Lord PALMERSTON was disposed to answer the
Noble Lord, he hoped satisfactorily. With respect
to the question about the entistinnt into the 10th
Regiment of Light Dragoons, it certainly-had been
determined to allow a cert aiti number of'ptisatiers to
enter into that regiment, but those were not French-
men, but Germans. To such a determination there
could not be any objection on any principle, because
it was well known that. the French army; was daily
recrniting its strength by the enlistment of Ger-
mans, and the people of that Country would rather
serre Great Br.cain than France. As to the circum-
stance of Foreign Officers bearing conimiisions in
our army, there was a specific A6t of Parliament
authorising his Majesty to avail himself of the ser-
vices of Foreign Otticers. , Time 97th Regiment was
originally composed of Foreigners—now, however,
it is principwly composdof natives of Ireland, con-
secrently of British subjects. The Noble Lord
stated that a Foreign General was employed on one
of the Home .astriCts. He wisised the Noble
Lord could name the person he alluded to. (L ,rd
Folkestone said, " General Linsingen.") If d,:ne-
ral Linsingen was the Othcer, he was appomted to
command a depot, composed of troops Of hiS own
country.

Lord FOLKESTONE observed, that the ansa-er of
the Nol.le Lord had not convinced, him that the
permission w:o justified. On the contrary, it hiid
been given contrary to the Act of Settlement, and
to ail the Ads of Parliawent pas,ed on the subject
since that period.

Mr. LIOIBE conceived the Noble Lord had corn-.
phnned of these enlistments es grievances without
any cause for their existence. Every one must 12-
ment most deeply the necessity of burthening the
subject so heavily. The Noble Lord seenntd to
think that these foreigners had been introduced,
want only introduced, contrary to the principles of
the Constitution. The fact was -not so : there was
no man more disposed to adhere more srrittly to the
letter of the Aa of Settlement than himself; but in
the present situation of the wood, and of affairs on
the Continent, it was impossible to abide by it in
the strittest sense. kale world was in the same
state as when that Act pasied, then indeed some ar-
gument might arise to condemn a .departure from,it,
but it was apparent to all, that a s%%eeping necessity
had arisen for the employment of these troops. If
the Noble Lord would only look to the state of the
world—if he would only look at the increased and
increasing power of the Ruler of Franc,, the vast
extent of country which he had become possessed of
on time Continent, and the power which, of course,
was afforded him, not only f enlisting, but of com-
pelling the services of the people of the States he had
subjugated, and then say whether, with such unex-
ampled resources within his grasp, this country
should not be at liberty to resort to the same means
of recruiting its strength, in order to oppose his ef-
forts with some chance of success. Measures of
this kind were to be deplored, but they were mea-
sures which the necessity of the times imposed upon
the country.

Mr. CURWEN declared it was impossible for him
to sit still, and hear such doarines as the Hon. Gen-
tleman had just broached. In all the twenty-seven
years that he had the honour of possessing a seat in
that House, he had never heard !hat it was necessary
to,suppolt and maintain this country by undervaluing
its abilities and decrying its energies. The Noble Lord
in what he had stated, did not wish to undervalue,
but to arm his country, for it was by an adherence
to the. laws, that the energies of the people could
be roused. The degrading nieasnres of Ministers
would have a contrary effect ; they would shew the
people, that the laws of their forefathers mere no•
thing better than dead letters on the Statute Book.
The safety of the country was best preserved, - not
by disregard to the laws, but by respect for them,
and by respect for the feelings of the people. If
there was one feature which he lamented more than
another in the conduct of Government, it was this,,
that when retrenchment was called for by the House,
the Government paid no respect to the feelings of
the people, but employed foreign soldier;, and gave
them that pay which was of right belonging to the
people. It he could conceive the most diglant hope
of benefit to the country in its present distressed si
tuation, it 't ould emanate from the recollection that
,the w.sumption of power by his Royal Highness
would tend to bring forth measures kir lightening
the hurdle!) of the subject, and he trusted t hat hope
would be ultimately realized, and that .the abuses at
present existing would be done away. He must
disapprove of giving encouragement to persons found
in aims against this cou:!try ; it was treating the
people of England in a mantiLr, to which their long
sufferings do not entitle them.
_ _

Mr. M. MONTAGUE thought the Hon. Gentle-
man had entu-ely forgot what had passed in the last
century, for if he would rekr to the Ael, he would
see that it authorised what was now comOatned of,
and therefore his arguments fell to the ground. The
Honourable Gentleman maintained, that there was
not the same danger now from the introduMiost of
Foreign soldiers as tormerly, because the Army had
-bcen cnatetially increased since then. He was- of
opinion great confidence ought to be placed in those
now holchng the Administration of the Public Af-
fairs.

Mr. FRIIEMANTLS, with reference to an increase
of pay, as suited • in tile estimates in the Offices of
Adjutant-General and Quarter-Master-General, ob-
served that in those departments there was an in-
crease of expellee from 6 to 70001. and a furthee
increase of 24,0001. in some foreign regftnenis,
since disbanded—the eitptnee of coinie Goon to be

dim'inished, But whet he putieularly wished ei•
-planation on was this—there appeared from the
papers -only an increase in numbers of ibou Men;
and yet the expenses were increased Ouo,oool.
above the ch.! ges of the form,y year. •
. Lord PALMERSTONE, ISI txpliriati,m, stated that
the variation in. the expence of the Acijutant-
General's and Quarter-MAster- General's depart-
ments arose from the transfer nt some of the
dependencies of theSe offi :els, and from the ad-
dition of some subordinate officers. With respect
to. the increase in the general estnnates; those he ILA
fully, as he hoped, explained, on a former night.,—
He had then stated that there WAS an aailid lOerea,e,
of I o,3(jouell, and not, as the Hon. G. nt. suppos-
ed, an Mel-ease only of IQOO omen. •
Mr. FLIEEMANTLE aware that there was an
inc-ease ,in ninntiers in ihe army in genural of ten
thousand men. What he ila.; observed was;
that on the estimates there wai only an increase of
100 men, while , th,?re appeared an additional
chaite of nearly 600,0601.

Lord PALSIL:hSTONIi r4ieated part of iiis xplana-
Lion.

The Report v.rs then-brought up.
On the quesmn being ptlt on the resointio'n
for granting 02,1591. 13s. tid.,l-dr Widows' Pen-
sions ;

Mr. BANKS moved that the second and third .13e-
solutions of the 31st May and Ist June, 1810.,
should be read, as also the 10th .report of the Co:u-
missinners in public accounts in 1783, in order iliac
these being put on the . journals, it might hereafter
appear on what the motion which he _proposed tat
mike was founded. They wete then read by ilea
Clerk. The report stated the office of Pay rtias!er of
Widows' Pensions to be one of winch the duties
where wholly executed by deputy, to be an tema-
cessary office, and and one of no public utiiity what-
ever. The office of Pat master was a perfect sine-
cure, and that of the Deputy little better than a siZ
necure ; and since the Widows could be paid their
pension without these Officers, they were natu-
rally led to say that •I he office of Paymaster was use-
less and nnpecessary, and ought therefore to be
done away, acid the business ttansa6ted at the Army
Pay-office. With this report, the other ReSolu-
Lions, . Zze. which he caused to be read, agreed in
every respea. On these alone, if no proee,,dings
on the subject had taken •place so recently as tit.
180 in, 1)e should have thought that this place might
have been ab fished, andatiat it would have been
for that
.House to call any Ministerao account. who
gave that office away under such circumstances.—
This a6tiou had 'brought a stigtna•on office which
he thought all the ingenuity of his Right- Hon,
Friend would hardly be able to. remove. He had..
With. much surprise heard the individual to whoui
the office had been given, attempt on a former
evening to prove that it lead•become something like
an efficient office. Whatever it might now be, Ire
knew that the whole of its duties had been per-
formed in 1808 for the sum of tool, and that too
by the first Clerk in the War Office, who had his
other duties to perform besides. He 'had Rattered
himself that his exertions had done-some good, but
he now found that tar from that being the case,
they had only tended to serve the cause of sinecures,
as in consequence of what lie bad said, sinecures
that otherwise it would hardly be attempted to keep
up,. bad still remained in existence, as it was now
said " you shall not touch one of them till Parlia-
ment has decided upon the whole bady of them."
As to what the Right Honourable Gentleman had
said of his having explained when the office was
given, that it was to be held subject to tha decision
of Parliament, he (Mr. B.) did not know that there
was any thing in that, as it must have eluded the
decision of that House,•whether or not it was con-
templated by the Right Honourable Gentleman at
the time. He ought, however, to have remember-
ed, that if had been condemned in that House al-
and he ought to have known, that so to bestow that
office would not fail to throw obloquy ou Iris Royal
Master. The Right • Honourable Gentleman had
said that. the place was left open to be abolished by
Parliament, just the same as if it had net been filled
up at all.
.How could he possibly assert this Did
be think that be (Mr. 13.) could come fo. ward on
thiS occas;oe, .woultl nor say as heely, but with
as much comfort to hiiiisell as if the place bad not
been given away It was not fair to those eho had
to decide on the question. There was a difficulty
in it as,to the individual in whose prai,e so touch had
been said (Colonel M‘Mairoli), and one as to big
Royal Highness the Prince Regent himself. He telt
all this, and only brought the subject forward, be-
cause he never would desert his duty ; and cot to
come forward en such an occasion -would, in his
.opi-
nice), be a base del elittion from- duty, He would
not, however, have provoked an inquiry if it had not
in some sort been forced upon him, as he vas cabled
upon to vote in support of the grant when the Re-
solution bAore rt) House was moved. 'Whatever
the-vote of the House might be that night, it would
enable the public to.aegur how tar they were, in
earnest in wishing to abolish sinecure places. This
he thought was a case as startle; as any that could be
Made out, as he did not koow that a sinecure could
be selected. which it was more necessary to abolish,
or in favour of which less could be said. The grant
was peculiarly to be complained of at the present
as it went to throw discredit on the new feign
at its outset. , At present, he observed, they had net
guard against its being granted in reversion. They
had nothing but the word of . Right Hon. • Friend,.
though he would take it for that, and a great
deal more, was not the security which brat House
ought to require. He concluded by tneviag as art
amendmeot, that the sum of .69,36;3! los. 6d. be
substituted for the original Stun, 62,1591. t 3s. 6d.
Mr. C. ADAMS supported the Jinenthfleur.
Mr. MONTAGUE did not iise to oppose aane4sure
of economy, but he thougie it the rse:;evaisnetsetzee
economy to withhold horn public
rewards which alone could assure the public teat
animated service which their interest invariably re.
quired._

Mr. LOCKHART would r.ot give his sm6tion to a
measure which had been the subject of the anitnatiii
versions of that Hesse, but at the same time lie
thought no blame attact,ed itself to the conduct of
the Alinister of the Crown. 'file had done it away,
it would na've been to pass his censure on the place,
and deprive the Criiwn of a part of its induct/cc
without the full concurrence of EtrliJment. It he
had given it wiihout expiaining, at the same time
that it was to be held subject '0 the future dect:iion
of Parliament. he %you'd. .

Resottitions of that Home. Acting as he had ael:s.d,
he bad taken a middle course, than which he
!stew not how he CO Id [ratio taken a oettvr.

ETF:iintorr stlmtly supoll,d "In- gram.
Mt-. BATHURST thought the sun', hich had been
usual), voted for the (Alice in question ought still to
btied till the otii,-e was ab4•l'sned. He therefore
rthon;d:v..te in I.lvour of the grant, wir.out giving
ho...ever, that he should vote-for the con-
tinuance of the office 'itself, when ;hat question
came to be discussed. He thought Govelitment
might p.iy too ::tuck attention to such subjects, and
at nditig to them, neglect savings of greater im-
portance. • _ .

M,..Al‘DoNAtn was of opinion that the grant
went to tt.iow otioquy on the Government of his
Royal Highness the Prince Regent, and that, Low.
rt,r vairrol ;t .as not for Paaliament to
eontirm nt. 11 i gall', scrificing their duty, and
r-iterests of the country, personal feelings and

tale , t;
Mt. Moa Errs said, he could find no Resolution for
the, onytaiitit,d ion of sinrcnres; and the of-
fice under discussion at preseot• was even, by the
ackno‘A ledt,ineut of the Right Hon. Gentleman on
the floor, not so area, of a sinecure as others.—
'Ebert. .were at present above twelve hundred per-
sons ..t-t this fond. fie mould al:ow.; that it was an
establishment which ought to be regulated ; but the
grant was inn .e in such a way as to I,:y it open to
those c•rnditions. Right Hon. Gentleman
was, in his opi ion, fulin, tos!ifie,,t in making the
grant unzler suci clrcutnstances. The question was
not wire; her there existed any clamour out of dbors
on this subteet, but whetter such clamour Was 'well
or ill founded; of w L.ll founded, it was cowardice
to yield, a cd.wareiice which might excite the 'eon-
temp. of the people, though it never could win their
confidence.

- Mr. HoMe SUMNER did not .i4leo in the opinion
that toe mode of rewarding servi, es should he esta-
blished before the abolition of sinecures took plact ;
on the contrary, he was of opinion that the siee-
cures should be abolished immediately ; the reward
of meritorious public servants would certainly be
provided for, and might without any condition be
entrusted to Parliament.

, Mr. W. FITZGERALD sari, he hardly thought it
fair in the Hon. Gentleman who just sat down, to
call upon the House to agree to the Resolution all
along alluded to upon an understanding of his own.
He was surprised that' his Right Honourable Friend
(the Chancellor of the Exchequer) could be ex-
pe6„ted.to come down to the House with an inlet'.
tion to abolish the grant in question, especially when
be recollected t.tis was a reward for services per-
formed, while the Han: Gentleman opposite (Mr.
M'Donald) enjoyed a sinecure from the time that
lw was as school-boy. Another Right Hon Gen-
tlemau (Mr. Banks), he thought, would have none.
well to do justice to the motives of his Right Hon.
Friend, and justice ;;e h !(.1 not done them, when he
gOppi,sed that the objeet wi ft which he had recom-
wettJed to the nitree It ii, the appoini!l,eo: of
Officer, was that 0f divldolz the otiloipty w: icli
must an. a iipon the tiletlre. He believed that
lttsßigh: Friend was the only Minister who
had Lot recomincnled otlices in reversion. An
H n. tit-oiltmati Tierney) had used an ex-
res,..on on a lorrner night, wloci:, he believed, he
ou',,t riot again br; inclHeo to repeat he
ha, dinged Ministers with chaing the, Prince
Ittgtut throo6n tiediet; but oierlaoking the
c,ipression, and corm g to the argument that
it uas inht:ting to the Piicce, to Parliament,
tk) the ItidiViLltl.A sho was presented with
the once, he must s. ,v to time first place, that
he was -of alto& L.er inclined -to adopt the inter-
pretaton of these :o 'were ioo much in the habit
of oalstdering t_nemselves the i.;,.f•lusive legislators of
the country. As to its being insulting to the Prince
Regent to advise the rewarding -an Hon. Officer,
wh?) -bac: long ati,i faitaully served him, he could
riot comprehend it, nor did he think it'any nisult to
l'arlntment to presume !ha; Parliament was not the
source,of reward ; as far was it from insult to the
individual to remunerate his services. The motion"
ul the Hon. Gent. was not u healer they would de-
em& 20001. from the Wicows' Pension List, but
whether they would mark with their: disapprobation
the first step of his Royal Highness in favour of a
deserving servant.

Mr. M'DJNALD, in explanation, said, that though
he ileld a swecure office, he was ready to give it up
at any time in which a regulaliOn should be made
on the subject, and he would assure the Right Ho-
nourable I,,qct of the Treasury, notwithstanding the
unassuming manner to which he had addressed
him, that-tie should never be prevented by 'the pOs-
sesnon of any place, from doing his duty to his con-
sti uents.

Mr: W.-FITZGER ALD said he imputed no political
or moral guilt to the holding of a sinecure office, but
lie thought, that in his general declaration on that
tkuhie.-1, the Hon. Gent. seemed to overlook the eir-
-tuinstance of having heldone.
WiLnEavoacE deprecated the principle of
supposing that a i\lembet of Parliament who held a
vrICCLITe pkett, was not competent to deliver his
tan opinion on the Ftibie.ct. He remembered the
,appointment of the Commissioners who had recom-
mended the , abolition of this office; id thirteen
years atter.vards, when it arrived at double the Va.-
hue, the people felt it. The great point in his
mind was, t!;at there was something in the nature
of the office which rendered it more liable to
public obloquy than any other, as it was often con-
ks! leced in the light of a dectection from the WI-

dotes' Pensions. In times of peculiar pressure, like.
the present, they should lighten the vessel of the
State. Fie knew the pure and honGurable mind of
his Right Hon. Friend (the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer), but. regretted that he dim not seem- par-
kct ly aware how necessary it was upon some sub-
jects to guard against misconstruction, and particu-
larly to wipe away such blots as this., He ,(Mr.
Wilberforce) would rather have penSiOns than things
of this kind, which could only be defended-by the
merits of the individual. He must allow Colonel

MsiVlahon merits, atter all that he had heard, but

they were such as the House could not take cog,
cizance of; and if such a principle were to be acted
upon, there was no knowing to what extent they
might be carried by it.
Lord CASTLEREAGH thought that the Resol ition
via: very far from containing any thing which NirtmA

controul or bind the Parliament, but it was_ right it
should obtain consideration and respea. Parlia-
ment did not appear to him to have intended it for
the dirthion of the Executive Government, but as a
;zeeral rule for their own body, which they had fol-
lowed up by the appointment of a -Conimitiee on
the subj,e6t. He thought it most unjust to expe&
grorn his Right liOn. friend that, he should point
out the offices to.which the principle applied ; that
was the business of Parliament itself. The subjed
should not be treated in an unparlilmentaty man-
ner, nor should the individual bedeptived of elm);
lumeot. Without giving any opinion as to the pro,
pr or impropriety of sinecures, he should oppose
the motion.

Mr. BANES
General TARLETON said he knew the Colonel
for thirtysfive years, and knew him to be an estima-
ble man. He thought it unfair that he'should be
now placed in a situation which drew upon him the
obloquy of the House and of the public. It was
not the proper reward for, his military or civil
services.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
would make but a few obsenations, having already
stated his opinions on the sUbjed in the Committee.
The Hon. General seemed to think that bad ail-
ed an unfair and unhandsome part by Col. iVl'Ma-
bon, in appoeiting him to the office of Paymater of
Widows Pensions. For his par: he 'was at a loss to
discover any hardship in the case, as Col. M‘Mahon
'was perfectly at liberty to refute the office. But there
mtght be something unkind in appointing Gentlemen
to situations which he was not aware of. His Ho-
nourable Friend (Mr. Banks) fad visited his in-
dignation on Ministers for. daring to advise etbe
Crowe on the instance, now urZier discussion.
All he could say was, that from his conversa-
sations with his Honourable Friend on tint sub-
jeel, beethought he had dune that which by a
sort of compel with him, he was bound to do.—
The Member tosAroi kshire had thought differently,
and expressed his regret at the part which Govern-
ment had taken ; but if he (the Chancellor of the
Exciequer thank with him, that ail the danger
_of
the country arose from sinecures, be should have
tided a wrong part not to have advised their abOli-
lion as they dropped, but being diredly of the op-
posite opinion, and thinking that there was more
danger in the declamations on those offices than in
the offices themselves, he thought it his duty to
leave the whole argument to,Parliament. His Right
Hon. Friend, who always voted consisteetly, he
thought, was rather inconsistent in the )reseto in-
stance. He 'wishes that all should be 1,41 to Par-
liamenteand yet that the Minister shouldi roerfere ;
out sshatliad he done to 'preclude the consideration
any ousrelnanif the granehad not been made at all ?
*lsere was another point on which he wished to
ascertain the le.ling of Parliament. His Hon.
Friend had brought forward Resolutions which he
(ihe Chancellor of the Excheqeer) had opposed,
but whiCh
.were carried. Was lie to consider those
resolutions as binding, and was he actually to pro-
ed he abolition of such offices himself ? With
iegard to the other resolutions, and to the reports,
be wished to know hew long a resolution was to be
considered binding at law which was not acted on
in the mean time ? He should think, that so far
from its long standieg being in its favour, the parlia-
Mereary influence was direetly the contrary ; for if
the resolution was forined twenty years ago, why
shotald-not a bill haVe been brought in to direct the
abolition, as in other places ? Instead of draw
ing an argnment from the length of time, they
should be led to suspect there was an indis-
position in Parliament to carrying them into
effed. But it seemed that he ought to have
granted the office to some former_ connedion
of his. He should say that he ought to grant it to
the person most fitted to have it, and he conceived
clearly that 11 the law admitted of a -grant of-this de-
ierietion, there was hardly an ottice to which the
Individual was more entitled than that. It was an
unconsitutional doctrine to maintain until it passed
into a lasv, that services should be rewarded by .Par-
liament and not by the Crown. For the advice be
had given he was pettedly responsible, but be
could not agree with some Gentlemen that there
was any thing disrespedful in this debate to the
feelings of Colonel M‘Mahone Entertaining the
opinions he had already delivered, be had ads ised the
Crown to make_ the grant as.a proper reward for
faithful services.

Mr. WHITBREAD declared that he had never heard
a sarcasm more misplaced than that with which the
Right Hon. Gentleman commenced his speech, and
in justice to his Hon. and Gallant Friend, he must
say, that he had never known a more conscientious
proceeding than that on which the Right [ion. Gen-
tleman had attempted to fix so unjust an odiuM.
The present question was one of a very different
nature. As it regarded the individual concerned,
nothing was more evident than that a feeling would
exist different from, that which would have been
excited had any other individual person been the
subjea of discussion. If the Right Hon. Gentle-
man should have a majority of votes on the ques-
tion (which fie Mr. W. doubted), the public would
be fully aware of the influence which the considera-

tion tfiat Colonel AVlVlabon was the personal fa-
vourite of the Regent, must have occasioned in the

decision. A Noble .Lord, who he had expected
wool] have spoken from the lower benches, had
charaelejised the amendment as unparliamentary.
Their opinions differed on this. point. For hi; pact,
he conceived that the Crown possessed many pre-
rogatives, which were adually controlable by Par-
liament. The Crown possessed the prerogative of
making war, but it rested with Parliament to

grant the necessary • supplies. The' Crown pos-
sessed the prerogative of appointing, a Paymas-
ter of Widows' Pensions, but it rested with Par-

liament to ratify such an appointment, by voting
a salary, the Right Hon.' Gentheman contended,
that because Parliament had not followed up the re-
ports of the Commissioners of 1783, and of the

various Committees, by some legislative proceeding,
that they thereby gave a silent negative to the re-
commendation contained in those reports. Thus it
appeared that Ministers, having by their dexterity
defeated in -the House all those measures which
every body out of the House declared would- hive
been_ generally beneficial, when it came to a
pinching vote, on such a question as the present

LONDON : Printed by 7 HOMAS WOOD, of No. 3S, Maiden-lane, Covent-gar,fen; an,
At the SLIN POICB, No, 112, gtpatip 'Olen averliwnents) Oftier

endeavoured to persuade the douse_ to agree with
them, lest Parliament should incur the; impu-
tation of inconsistency. This argument was most
unfounded. When The report of the Commis-
sioners of 1783 was made, the interest of two
persons was . vested. in this place. The present
was the very period when the public might
have begun to derive benefit from its abolition.-
-The Right Hon. Gentleman had very improperly
taken credit to himself for having told Colonel
INl'Malion that he must hold the situation subje&
to the pleasure of Parliament. How could he avoid
this ? the Regent had conferred the place for
life it would, have .been the duty of Parliament in-
stantly to interfere. But in what way did the Right
Houourable Gentleman follow- this intimation to
Colonel M'lNlalion ) "Why, by
.using .all his pre-
ponderating influence to preva'l on Parliament to
confirm the grant. It might re asked, why not make
this grant ? because it was not decent to
_the House
of Commons to do so. It was true that a small ma-
j,rity of the House had decided agaiust carrying
the Reports of the various Commi:tees into effe,l
in the shape of law.. • The Right Boni GentlemHn
was accustomed to small majorities. He had even, ,
continued Minister against a majority. Whether
he would base a majority on th,! present ,r cca•ton—
what would be his future tale--Jihat ‘Aould be th.e
fate of his colleagues—Ahether they would form a
Cabinet j4rring differing on all the vital' ques-

tions of th E-a-I,,ire—whetfier this Cabinet. would

hold a single common principle, or whether, on the
contrary every Member of it vrouli be scrambling
•to maintain his own opinion ? Tuese a ere questions
which time would solve. But it would• have been
the duty of the Right Hon. Gentleman 'at least to
advise the Regent—at least to suspend the grant.
He must know, tkat the source from whirl: it
flowed 'was obnoxious to the people. Had the
27001. been voted among the [6,000 persons, who,
having lost their natural protectors, were the ob-
jects of the. fund,, the public feeling 'would have
been gratified, and the call.of humanity would have

been obeyed. Were there no other offices which
would have been fit for Colonel M,Mation ? Was
there not an office, lucrative and honourable, at
that moment vacant in tha! House, which had been
held by a distinguished Officer, recently deceased
Why not give that office to Colonel M‘Mahon ?
But even if the Prince Regent had been tenacious
on the subje6t, and had set his heart upon the ap-
pointment, a good Minister, would have freely re
presented to him how obnoxious such an, appoint-
ment as that under discussion must be in the eyes
of the people. , This appointment had indeed stamp-
ed the-charader of the new reign. From the pie-
sent moment to the latest period.of the life .of the
individual now exercising the Sovereign Authority,
it would be remembered. The Regent would ever
have to lament thit he had had a Minister why had
so misconceived his duty to his Royal Highness and
to the public, as to advise his Royal Highness to do
that, the memory of which would never pass away,
even were his reign to proye.longer than that of his
revered father.

Mr. SHERIDAN admitted, that if it were expeEled
hat the people should proceed with passive to, titude

to bear the burthens necessarily imposed upon them,
an example most be set by the highest authority,
ofd di,po:ition to abolish &l unnecessary drai►:s on

the resources of the country. Still, However, be
must think that a great deal of warmth bad pervaded
the present-discussion, which did not properly be-

long to it. The place in question had certainly
been condemned thirty years ago, as an useless sine-
cure, by a very respectable Commission. That con.
demnation had been since confirmed b) Committees
of the House of Cominons. But he must agree
with the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, that as
no Parliamentary proceedings had followed the Re-
ports of those Committees, the Right Hon. Gentle-
man would not have been authorised to say the place
onght,not tO have been given. He lamented that
the tone of his Hon. Friend who 11:la just spoken,
seemed to have been changed with respect to Col.
M'Mahon. Although there had been many obje:-
tions.made to the grant itself, yet until the speech
of his Hon. Friend, no objection had bee)" adduced
against the person on whom the grant was con-
ferred. His Hon. Friend also accused the Right
Hon. GentlemSo of selecting that person, with the
view of gaining an undue influence, by humouring
an undue prepossession on the part of his Royal
Highness in favour of Colonel M'Mahon. He knew
nuth'ng of the motives of those who adviSed the R -
gent on this subject ; but he. confessed, that he
doubted whether his Hon, Friend really believed
that such was their Object. He certainly did think
i hat' the place ought Co have, been abolished; and he
sincerely wished "that Colonel M'Mahon had never
accepted it. But the present proceeding appeared to
him to be nujust and unfair. Why not bring for-
ward a direct motion against the place, and not
make a proposition which seemed to be as much
direded against Col. M'Mahon as the office ? With
respeat to, Colonel M'Mahon, no one had enjoyed
a better opportunity of knowing that Gentleman
man than himself, and he was persuaded, that a
more sincere, a more disinterested, artd more inde-
pendent wan, was no where to be found. Even in

ihelprestrist question, Col. MlNlahon had no interest;
for it was not to be supposed that if the decision of
Parliament compelled him.to relinquish the util.e
conferred upon him, his Royal Master would tail

to !mullet-ate his faithful services in some other
way.

Mr. WEITERgAD, in explanation, distlaimed
passing the slightest amputation on Colonel
hon. On the contrary, he had pointed out a lucra-
tive and honourable office which in his opinion
might have been with propriety conferred on thai
Gentleman. His Right Hon. Friend had mistaken
his obserYations on influence. What he had said
was, that the yutes of that House .wonld be mote
influenced by the consideration that Colonel :M 'Ma-

lion was the person filling the obnoxious situation,
than they would have been, had any other individual
been so circumstanced.

Lord COG/MANE expressed his decided opinion
against the great mass of sinecure places and pen-
sions ; 'but as he thought it invidious to select this
particular instance, be would not vote for the
Amendment. At the same time, as be could not

bring his mind to support the Right Hon. Gentle-
man oppobite, he had determined to quit the House,
and abitain from voting altogether.

The tictise then divicled—
Vor the Amendly.ent tr;' •
- Against it _ _
1,2
Majority
The remaining Resolutions v.rere sei=eralfy
agreed to.
'Mr. BAN-KES gave notice, that on Tuesday, ,41,e
r,-th of March, he would submit to the House a
proposition for carrying into effea the Resplutiont
of the Coin mission of ItB3.
On the motion of Mr. BitouottAyr,- anaccount
was ordered to be laid before the House, of tyre
number pf CoMmercial Licenses granted for the ten;
years, ending the sth of January, 1812; distin-
guishing the number in each month during the last
three years; as also those granted for Exports, from
those granted ("or ImportS, Btc..
The other Orders of the Day, were then dhposed
of, and the Hone adjourned.