The Sun.
London, England, 1847-01-23 00:00:00

Mr. P. BORT HWICK conceived that an insurmountable
difficulty to the future prosperity of the colonies would be in-
stituted if this measure were to be made the foundation of per-
manent operations. For it had been justly observed by his
Noble Friend the Member for Lynn ( Lord G. Bentinck), there
were two sides of the question to he considered; there were
the interests of the colonial producer, and the interests of the
British consumer. When these measures were first introduced,
it was with the express view of alleviating the distress of Ireland.
But if they interposed these affairs of the colonies, and made
them the foundation of a permanent measure, he did not hesitate
to say that it would occasion the ruin of the West Indies.
What would he the consequences ? A merchant in the West
Indies would have invested his capital in the expectation of a
certain return, and when his cargo arrived in England he
would End that, threugh the conduct of the Pritiali Parliament,
it was rendered nearly valueless.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL wished to say a few words in re ply
to his Noble Friend, who had shown so much moderation and
such an absence of party spirit, at the commencement of this
session, that he should be glad to grant any concession
which was consistent with his public duty, and
do anything that he could to meet the wishes of
the Noble Lord, and of those who acted with him. The Noble
Lord seemed to have no objection to this as a temporary mea-
sure. But since his Noble Friend had made this proposition,
that this measure should be only a temporary measure, and not
a permanent measure, it appeared to him that be
had mixed up two subjects, the abrogation of the
corn-laws, and the suspension of the navigation laws.
If, therefore, they were to accede to the proposal of his Noble
Friend to continue the measure only for a few months or a
year, and hold out a prospect of its ultimately becoming per-
manent upon the principle propounded by his Right Hon.
Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, it would be pro-
longing the doubts and anxieties which prevailed upon the
question. It would give rise to a good deal of inconvenience,
and might lead to a good deal of excitement, being got up in
the country. He was, therefore, obliged to come to
the conclusion that it was far better for Par-
liament to decide, whether the question should be per-
manent or temporary. It was quite in the power of his
Noble Friend at any time to raise a discussion upon the point
of proposing a separate clause limiting the operation of the
measure to a given period, then if the Home concurred with
him in opinion, the clause might be inserted in the Bill He,
however, trusted that this would not be the result of the dis-
cussion ; and although he Mit much indebted to the Noble
Lord and his party for the assistance they had afforded him,
he could not help thinking that it would not be fair for them
to raise any excitement upon this question.
Lord G. BENTINCK said he had no desire to get up any
excitement on the question, and he would readily consent to
take the opinion of the House upon his own proposal at a later
stage of the Bill.
Mr. B. •ESCOTT said the Noble Lord, who had just sat
down, had long been an advocate of political economy, but
recently the Noble Lord had evinced the discretion of an old
politician in his recent political contests. The Noble Lord, it
seemed, was to be the friend of the Noble Lord the First Lord of
the Treasury, till the Irish question and all its difficulties were
settled.—( Hear, hear.) When that day would be he did
not pretend to tell ; but when it did come, he supposed
the Noble Lord, the Member for Lynn and the Noble
Lord the First Lord of the Treasury would not
be in the amicable intercourse which they now witnessed every
night. With respect to the question immediately before the
House, after what had occurred last night and on previous
nights, the course he ought to pursue was clear. He took the
measures as the best Government could propose with the
largest chance of carrying them. That better measures could
be proposed no one would pretend to deny, but he with others
questioned whether they would be carried if those better mea-
sures were brought forward at the present time. The Noble
Lord the member for Lynn had let out another secret for the
benefit of the farmers. In the last session of Parliament the
Noble Lord told the farmers that they would find compensation
for the repeal of the corn-laws in the abolition of the malt tax.
There had since been several gatherings throughout the
country, as well as sumptuous dinners, at which the
Noble Lord was an honoured guest, and at which the
Noble Lord promised to secure the farmers the com-
pensation he had previously held out to them.
ft appeared now, however, that this compensation
was to be abandoned by the Noble Lord. This was
somewhat strange, when it was remembered that the Noble
Lord was the president of an anti-malt tax association,
to which he (Mr. B. Escott) certainly had not been solicited
the Noble Lord hail sold the farmers just in the same way as he
to become a member. In fact, he could not help thinking that
had got up a sham fight in their favour in the last session of
Parliament, and now the promised compensation was to be put
aside until some indefinite period. Now, he wished that the
farmers of England should know what was going on. They
were to have no compensation till the Irish question was settled,
and when that moment arrived, the Noble Lord would be ready
to attack the malt tax.
Lord G. BENTINCK said, whatever opinion the
Hon. and Learned Member for Winchester might
entertain as to the duration of the friendship which
existed between himself and the Noble Lord, the First
Lord of the Treasury, he trusted as that friend-
ship had subsisted for many years, it would not be so easily
broken up as the Hon. and Learned Member seemed to anti-
cipate. For his Noble Friend's private, personal, and
political character he entertained the highest respect,
while he no less admired his Noble Friend's political con-
sistency, and his own battles showed not, he trusted, that
when lie differed in political principle with his Noble Friend,
he might still be able to meet him in strong opposition without
any interruption to their private friendship.—(Cheers.) The
Hon. and Learned Member for Winchester had asserted that
ho was the president of an anti-malt tax association. He
would not enter into any discussion upon that point, but he
could assure the Hon. and Learned Gentleman that he might
rest perfectly satisfied that whatever society he (Lord George
Bentinck) might belong to, unless he wished to have it be-
trayed, he would never invite the Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man to become a member.—(Hear, and cheers.)
Mr. BROTHERTON was desirous of putting an end to
this personal discussion and bringing the mind of the Com-
mittee back to the subject immediately under consideration.
The returns which. had been fin ofte., si...
debate showed that there were 27,000,000 gallons of spirits
annually consumed in this country, being about one gallon each
for every man, woman, and child in the United Kingdom.
There was upwards of 40,000,100 gallons of malt consumed in
the same period, and he thought that upon a
moderate calculation the malt consumed in spirits
might extend to upwards of 100,000,000 quarters.
Upon a fair calculation, he might reasonably state
that there were 400,000,000 gallons of beer annually consumed
in the United Kingdom. Now the inhabitants of this country
were considered an enlightened people, and yet they paid
50,000,0001. in spirits anti in intoxicating drinks. If the
House was really in earnest in its desire to alleviate the distress
and suffering which prevailed throughout the land, it might
easily accomplish that object by doing away with that
50,000,6001. of taxation, which he considered as so much money
thrown into the sea, because it produced nothing but poverty,
crime, and wretchedness. He was, therefore, convinced that if
the House would oily lend its moral influence to the societies
established for inculcating into the minds of the people princi-
ples of temperance, it would be doing more good than removing
the duties off intoxicating drinks.
Mr. B. FERRAND had heard the Hon. and Learned
Member for Winchester charge the Noble Lord, the Member
for Lynn, for having directly attended there to-night to sell the
farmers. At his last election the Honourable and
Learned Member • marched into Winchester at the heal
of a great procession of farmers, to whom he pro-
nounced himself to •be a great protectionist, and declared
himself ready to fight their battles on the floor of the House,
occasion
saidsi
o n l N: no," but hs
he happened to be
in the shop, and die in defenee,of their interest. Afterwards, when lie
came into that house, he made a grand speech in favour of his
constituents, and in which he stuck up for protection to agri-
culture. He assisted the Hors. and Learned Gentleman to
No,
correct that
speech, for the purpose of having it circulated
among his constituents.—( No, no," from Mr. B. Escott.)
The. Hon. and
would prove it. Learned
rn
a e
d particulars 9, painuall, when the Hon. and Learned Member
came in; seeing that he was there, the Hon. and Learned
Gentlem a
"What did you tidbit of my speech
Gentleman said, the other
• and Learned
night." He told the Hon. Gentleman that it was
a great piece of oratory, but that he did not understand how
the Winchester
farmers would be able to construe his long
Latin quotations. Upon that advice the lion. and Learned
Gentleman had alterations made in his speech, and had it
printed and published, and circulated among his constituents,at his own expense. ln the year 1646, he freely quoted fromthat powerful
and lengthy speech, and even since then, it was
found to be difficult to answer. Now, he distinctly charged
the Hon. and
Learned Member with selling his constituents;
and as the Hoe: and Learned Member had charged the Noble
Lord the Member for Lynn with attempting to sell the farmers,
he must tell the Hon, and Learned Member that any Member
in that House who could sell his consitituents would not hesi-
tate to sell himself.—
( Hear, hear, and cheers.)
Mr. B. ESCOTT admitted that, when his opinions upon
the subject of the corn-laws underwent a change, his constituents
had a perfect right to have some explanation. He gave that ex-
planation before the Corn Bill passed last session, and although
he delivered it at one of the largest meetings of his constituents
that he had ever attended ; all of them but three expressed
tion et leis conduct. At the close of the
their entire appro a
a public meeting again, at assembled, and
session he met them
for the second time his constituents expressed themselves satis-
fied at his conduct. With respect to the speech, he could only
state, that when he thought it necessary tohave any speech of
his corrected, certainly the lion. M ember for Knatesborough
would be the last man he should appeal to for this purpose.
He had listened to one or two speeches of the Hon Member,
and had heard one or two of his friends remark, that if
lem,his
he had
studied those speeches a little more,
ar arena e luell
„ ter. )
oratory would have lost nothing.—( e
to
The resolution was then put and agreedRUSSELL, the Corn Importa-
On the motion of Lord J.
tion and Navigation Laws were read a third time and passed.
TOOR.LAW SETTLENIENI.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL begged to move that a Select
Committee be appointed to inquire into the poor-laws of Ire-
land. and particularly the Poor-law Removal Act. With
regard to the law of settlement, there were certainly difficulties
to be encountered on every side, and he did not think that they
could come to a just conclusion on the subject until they had
had the advantage of the advice of persons who were
acquainted practically with these matters, and who should
be called together for that purpose. He wished to take this
opportunity, as several questions had been asked with respect to
the inquiry instituted last year, that that inquiry had been very
satisfactory. With regard to the proceedings that had taken
place at the Andover Union, it was not the intention of the
Government to take any steps, unless it were introduced by
some other Member of the House. The Government looked
rather to the general question. The House was well aware that,
according to- the Act. passed last year, the powers of the
Poor. law Commissioners were limited till the next session of
Parliament. In considering this question he must say that he
thought it was absolutely necessary to have some body which
should have a central eontroul, and which should also have
local inspect ion.--( Hear, hear, from both sides of the House.)
Under the system which formerly existed there was no doubt
that great evils existed, and it was most necessary that the
mal-administration that existed under that system should be
e*Pelled which could only be done by means of some Minis..
terial controel. I3ot with regard to the manner in
which this contract was to he exercised or regu-
lated, there was the greatest difeculti in bringing
it to the role that would satisfy the Noose. The constitution
of the officials should be changes!. With respect to his own
part, he believed that those Commissioners had exercised their
powers to the
heat pf their; and, further, he believed
that their genera' administration lied Open suueessful, lilt
could not say that • instance in every that had been brought
before Parham tthat had en their powers been eeer-
cited. He believed that 0 apt pf woes! hesi peen owing
to the circumstance the h - qae owing
to the circumstance of the control 'haring been
placed in different hands. In one case they had
Ts; receive-'
statements of officers under different circumstances. In
050 instance it was epee-the ey to act upon advice of the
officials, and in smother • 'sa
• tanep the Ministere of the csi9wn
had to state what Ins
were the circnini,tincos MOP which,
and what weFe the reasons that led to, the adoption