The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-27 00:00:00

BOROUGH OF CAMBRIDGE.

feared that there was a disposition to over-rate the power of
any Government to relieve distress.—(Hear, hear.) All that
they could;do would be dene,witr esA the fact that the Noble Lord
was at the present moment raising a loan of 8,000,i30,1, to re-
lieve the distress prevalent. The people of Ireland had, at this
moment, a claim upon the co-operation and support of England,
and that support had been given as far as it could be. tie ad-
mitted that there was a feeling on the part of the English and
Scotch people, that while they were helping their Irish
brethren, there ought to be a corresponding exertion on the
part of the people themselves.
BOARD OF WORKS' REPORT.

Colonel WOOD wished to ask the Right lion Gentleman
the Secretary for Ireland, when any additional report from the
Board of Works in Ireland would be laid on the table ?

Mr. LABOUCHERE replied that they were made out
every month, and laid before the House as soon as possible
afterwards.

EXCHEQUER LOANS.

Mr. HUME wished, before the order of the day was read,
to call the attention of the House to the mode in which it was
proposed to effect tho loan of the eight millions that was in •
tended for the relief of Ireland. It appeared to him that the
proceeding,, as he had seen it stated in the papers, was againat
all experience, and would have an injurious effect on the finances
of the country. He regretted it very much, and was of wei-
nion that it would be mush better to borrow the money at ihe
lowest rate of interest for which they could get it, and he
hoped the Noble Lord would alter his plan so as to embrace his
view.

Lord J. RUSSELL replied, that they had proceeded with
the plan referred to because they considered it the best one
which, from the best information they could get, could b..
adopted.
On the motion to go into a Committee of Supply,
CONVEYANCE OF FOREIGN PROVISIONS.

Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD brought forward the mo-
tion of which he had given notice, that an humble address be
presented to her Majesty, praying that she would be graciously
pleased to authorise and direct that such ships of her Majesty's
navy, as can be spared from the regular duty, should be ap-
plied, under such regulations as her Majesty might deem ad-
visable, to the accommodation of merchants in the conveying
of co-n and provisions from foreign countries into the ports of
the United Kingdom. On taking a survey of the various
countries from which corn might be expected, it would be
found impossible to procure from the mercantile marine a suffi-
cient amount of shipping to convey the food accumulated in
foreign countries to the people of this country. There would
be one million of quarters of grain collected in the various
parts of the Danube by the Ist of June, and this grain, if
brought to this country in the mode he pointed out,
would greatly alleviate the pressure of the present calamity.
ant in America, also, and other places, the accumulation of
grain was equally great. It might be at once seen, then, how
great was the scarcity of ships from the increasing freights that
were charged for the conveyance of grain, a statement of
which he then made to the House. He would not attempt to
dwell upon the wretchedness of Ireland, as that was well
known to her Majesty's Government ; and he hoped that the
measure now proposed, tending, as it would do, to alleviate in
some degree the mass of misery which prevailed in that coon-
try,'.' would meet with their approval. He would not trespass
longer on their attention, but would conclude by submitting
the motion.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the subject referred to in the
motion of the Hnn. Member had been brought under the no-
tice of the Government some time ago, and they had hail it
under their consideration, but they did not think it advisable
to adopt it. He should however, say that there were at pre-
sent a great number of vessels—sailing-vessels and steam-ves-
sels employed in conveying provisions to different parts
of Ireland. There were thirty steam-vessels, twelve
sailing-vessels, and five depot ships, employed
in the conveyance of provisions to and from different parts of
Ireland. With regard to the supplies from abroad, of which
the Hon. Member had spoken, he feared that he had estimated
them far beyond the truth. He thought that the quantity of
grain which they might expect from abroad was very small
indeed. But supposing, they acceded to the motion of the Ho-
nourable Gentleman it would be necessary, in the first place,
to put the vessels in a condition adapted to the conveyance of
provisions. Now 'this would occupy considerable time and
would occasion considerable expense. It would take about
19,0001. to put them in this state, and perhaps double that
amount to adapt them again to the purpose for which they are
intended. In addition to this, the very limited supplies of
grain which they would be able to procure made it very obvious
that no adequate result would compensate for such expen-
diture. The certain consequence, however, would follow that
as soon as it became known and was proclaimed that her Ma-
jesty's ships were employed in this service it would cause a
very great discouragement to the exertions of the mer•
chants of this country.—( Hear, hear.) It would re-
quire a much greater eff frt to be made than he had
anticipated. His own estimate was, that it would require
from 1,20 tto 1,500 ships for a service of this kind. Now, if
it was proclaimed that Government vessels were to be employed,
the number of vessels now engaged in the conveyance of food
would be considerably less, and the freights from America and
Odessa would be considerably greater. There was also con i-
derable difficulty, as well as expense, in bringing Indian corn
from the western states to the ports of America. Corn, which
was sold in the interior at 7d. per bushel, was enhanced in
price several shillings before it arrived at the port in conse-
quence of the cost of conveyance. And in addition to this,
there was a great deficiency of boats to bring it down the Mis-
sissipi. The great objection, therefore, to the proposal of the
Hon. Gentleman was the expense it would cost—the great loss
of time it would occasion before it could be carried into effect,
and the great discouragement it would give to private enter-
prise. He hoped the Hon. Member would, under these cir-
cumstances, withdraw his motion, for he might rest as-
sured if her Majesty's Government thought they would be able
by that means to accelerate the importation of food, and to in-
crease the supplies, they would be as ready to adopt it as they
were to employ her Majesty's vessels in the distribution of grain
to the different ports of Iceland.
The motion was then by leave withdrawn.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL then stated that a proposal had
been made to the Government by the Society of Friends, who
had exerted themselves so much for the relief of the distress in
Ireland, that they should, by their contributions, endeavour to
raise a sum of money sufficient to purchase a cargo of corn, if
the Government would allow one of her Majesty's vessels to
convey it from America. Government declined that proposal,
but offered to pay themselves for the freight of the corn from
America to this country.
Mr. KERR thought if Government had allowed her Ma-
iesty's vessels to be employed in affording accommodation to
those persons who were disposed to emigrate from Ireland, that
this, in connexion with the plans which they were at present
engaged in carrying out, would be productive of the grea•est
good to the inhabitants of. that country. In that way they
should get rid of a large portion of a population which could
not find either sustenance or employment in Ireland.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, that with regard to vessels
bringing corn to this country, they would be at liberty to take
in passengers to the colonies without being subjected to the
operations of the Acr. That was to be allowed, provided that
they confined themselves to passengers only, and he believed
that the system would be of benefit to the country.
SHIPS' SIGNALS.

Sir DE LACY EVANS, on going into Committee of
Supply, begged to call the attention of the House to
certain erroneous allegations in the petitions from the
borough of Cambridge, complaining of the omission,
or non-registration, of several duly qualified, in the last
court of revision held in that borough. He held in his
hand a letter from the town 'clerk, stating these facts,
and expressing a hope that a remedy might he found to
correct this state of things, and restoring these voters
to their franchise during the ensuing year. The charges
of neglect of duty against the Revising Barrister were
totally unfounded, for he had p,rformed his duties sub-
stantially and completely. A list of the claimants had
been submitted to him, which list he had given in a
perfect state to the town-clerk. He had only further to
state that, of the sixty voters excluded, they were in
pretty nearly equal proportions of the opposite parties—
Liberalec.
and Conservative ; and in the event of an el e
in
tion, the results would be of no great matter. S
means should be adopted for rectifying the Act of
Par-
liament, and the parties were very anxious that an
inquiry should take place.
FEVER IN IRELAND.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL said that in rising then he bad
no intention of interfering with the business of the House
upon the paper for that night, but he felt it absolutely n
ceesary to call the attention of the Government,for short
time, to the condition of Ireland. He was well aware
er
that they would have, during the next fortnight, many
opportunities of discussing the condition of that country,
on the measures which the Government had upon the
paper for the relief of Ireland, but he wished to direct
the serious attention of the Government to the necessity
of additional measures. He did not refer to the accouats
of increasing distress, which appeared in s
morning
paper of that day, for, since the beginning of the present
session, the Irish Members had the misfortune to have
everything they said, with reference to their country,
treated as an extravagance and exaggeration.
disease of typhus fever had already appeared, and if the
Government restricted the diet of the people to the
.
single article of soup, they would cause them to ethxe
perience the disease of dysentery, according to
opinion of the most eminent medical men. He hoped
Government would take an opportunity of conside.
.e.
the propriety of bringing forward some measure whdli:
should hold out a prospect of Ireland being,
at "lion.
taut period, supplied with solid food. Some s the
Gentlemen would seem to lay it down av
iicy,
rule to be adopted in the present ewerbieshed.
that the population of the country should be &mi%
pted,
but he saw no reason why that rule should
beanhie ot
seeing Ireland, when well cultivated, was
le. The
producing more than sufficient food for it, p
natural resources of the country
people, and exported in large quantities to t
were r, fused
of ason,
He would expless his hope that the dictates
the Go-
his country. t the
justice, and humanity, would be attended tk by.
not be
vernment, and that the people of Ireland wsoauffilei
eient re
told by them that they must perish; that
sources were to be found in the country, and to those
the starving millions of population
d the
because the supply of food had decreased, the people must 1 ,ok, or that,.
was a horrible
should decrease also, by emigration.
It
doctrine for any person to propound.
the misconduct of Government that r _
condition, and it
its present distressing con "e' al
asn d owingw aswas
in
but fair that the Government should bear
the consequences of its fatal misconduct.—(Hear.)
The effect would be to break down the
.ratespayl•st.toe,
the condition of the viuners. They believed tha h
prosperity of the country 'bad risenspite oft he poor-
ian msouth ino in that
laws; but he had stated more t
House that they were quite readhalito give up their oppo-
3:t to make their experi-
sition, and allow the Government
experi-
ment; though he believed
d thatinetrhe attompt to carry
pout
be only a reekiess wast o
these laws in Ireland woul.
ularly at a time when the
effort and of means, p
funds of the country webraeertsfirie)istrained, and must be so re-
strainedghtful distress. Still, he
to relieve
tt
majority of the Irish Members
asserted, that a any burden which
were quite readygrea to bear
to imp' P
upon them. But he
they might choose
thought all these attempts would be useless, and
he would rather point to an observation of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer the other night when he
was alluding to the Irish receipts in the Exchequer, a
remark which had not received the notice
.which it de-
served. That remark pointed to the possibility of in-
creasing those receipts, and ho (Mr. J. O'Connell) be"
lieved that if they
could only increasel.
the expenditure
in Ireland, instead of paying n theproportionb of one-
third to w
this country that they would dout;let e amount.
and instead of receivieg
onlyl2 000 0001. they would
get 17,000,0004 from the Excisse. y wbould do sunie
makiug the
thing to effect good toward Ireland
landlords return home. They should be compelled to
do so by the expression of public opinion. That would
create something like expenditure of
_capital in Ireland,
and consequently relieve the people of this country from
a portion of the burden
that pressed upon themaet
bprroesuegnhtt.
Lie trusted that the Irish measures might b
forward as hastily as possible, that the Irish Members
might return as soon a:, possible to do what they
might
to relieve the distress which existed around them.
Mr. LA BOUCHERE said that he was not aware that the
Hon. Member for Kilkenny had it in contemplation to bring
this subject al present before the House, and he had spoken so
often upon the subject, that the House would excuse him enter-
ing at large upon it. He trusted that when the Honourable
Member spoke of the horrible doctrine of delaying the measures
for Ireland, that he did not refer either to her Majesty's Go-
vernment, or the English and Scotch public. He had never
heard any such doctrine broached, and he thought that it had
been justly condemned. Had the Honourable Mem-
ber referred to the diet intended for the Deonl
of Ireland, and to the consequence of giving —therm-
a liquid food. The subject had occupied the attention of the
Government, and enormous quantities of solid food were being
sent by the Government over to Ireland in order to relieve,
much as possible, the distress there. He felt it to be his duty
to to do all that-lay in his power to mitigate that distress, bet he

Mr. HUME wished to know whether the Admiralty had
come to any determination with respect to the signals to be
adopted by vessels sailing off the coast of England. There
were collisions so frequently occurring at sea, that some
measure was necessary to prevent it. He saw, by a return,
thatf
on fn
sti
the
enu
ar
el i
coast
aghs
at thedn f b
ep ea ns t
Ireland,. yde
oa
pr
t,
nesndsd,Ornhc
uoe lc Ii
believedh s i o
of ntsh oi :
that
losss h p s
might
had
if
i gah
pt taken pl
ace
on have
ape
ye;
been
enet
ne
avoided. The experiment had been tried by her Majesty's
ships at Portsmouth, and it was desirable that they should
know the result of the experiment.
tnheaxt
tt he
weektrial
he
sand
Bbeenh
emeandaehtlos
da
tcno nl
asyi dtehr
the
the Home Department in his place, he would ask the Noble
r e ablesllulllrret..sx RtleeVnOnAttEhßeßaDnUt adsbCatl ROEBUCK said that as he did not see the Secretary
Lord at the head of the Government, if there was any ob-
jection to lay upon the table the answer of the Poor-law Coin.
missioners to the question of the Government, as to the manner
in which they exercised their functions.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL was understood to say that the
paper would be laid upon the table.
NAVAL ARCHITECTURE.
Sir C. NAPIER wished t. call the attention of the House
to the system pursued in her Majesty's dockyards with respect
to the building of vessels for the navy, and to the abuses
which prevailed as to the use of ships which had
been built at an enormous cost to the country.
There had been eight three-deck ships cut down, and many
others so altered as to be materially injured. There had been
hardly one ship built of late which had not been altered in
some respect more then once, but all of them once. He would
read the return of the ships cut down, in order to show the ex-
tent to which the system was pursued. A 74. gun ship. built
in 1815, which cost 86,0401., was cut down in 1841. The Vin-
dictive, built in 1813, and which cost 81,0001., was cut down to
a frigate in 1832, without ever having been at sea. The
Amazon, 42. built in 1821, was cut down, without having been
at sea, in 1844; and another 42-gun ship was cut down in
1845. The Brilliant was cutting down at the present moment.
The Penelope, 44. was converted into a steam-frigate. The
Thames. which cost 37,0001., had been turned into a hulk, and
the Bacchus was now cutting down. The Hebe, built in 1826,
and which cost 32,4841., was turned into a hulk in 1839; and
many other ships had also been either cut down or turned into
hulks. The sum of their cost was 619 0001. Ships of 44 and
42 guns had been cut down into corvettes, mounting
22 guns, and, in fact, the late Board of Admiralty
seemed to have it as their hobby, that a corvette of
22 guns could carry heavier metal, and be superior
to ships of 44 guns. He very much doubted the propriety of
cutting them down, but it was well known that the practice of
the Admiralty was to turn large frigates into small corvettes.
The next fact he came to was, with reference to the Caledonia,
a three-decker, built in 1/4)8. costing 81,000!., and afterwards
repaired at an expense of 10,00 W. in 1615. The Board of
Admiralty took tne freak into their head of widening the
Caledonia, which was done at an enormous expense, and a good
ship turned into a very indifferent one. Lord Exmouth, who
commanded her in the Mediterranean, begged that they would
not spoil the ship, but they were indifferent to the request.
They had six three-deckers on the stocks at the present
moment, mounting each 110 guns, built upon the model of
the Queen, and the Admiralty were in fact quite ignorant as
to whether she was a ship fit to use as a model. There were
six 90-gun ships built after the Albion, a ship which was sent
to sea in 1341. He cautioned the Admiralty at the time to
be careful in building ships until they had tried the models, but
no attention was paid to it, and the vessels were to be con-
structed upon a plan which acted indifferently in small vessels,
and could not therefore be very applicable to large ones.
There had been many doubts as to whether the
Albion was a good or bad ship, but he had
one proof of her qualities ; namely, that in
a late gale she rolled 45 degrees to leeward, and lurched ever
traon d wwi niwtdhwa sahriendr t4lr3e
portsdegr sevenees.
ahrreodlllilyi
no: Rodney
d h i
but then she was in yacht
feett
MediterraneanHr
i me f
0,
sher ebrmu
istenam ci
thei
hbeeed
srmee
out
um,
tewelluohetfennatt
blhytheeh
at
twaVan-
guard
.tbr,
esert
r.:
tstoreshe l Vanguard
board,i s
rdc,,rsrieedt.aoinlelyd
I 618 tons, and ;
madee
then she sailed well. The Superb had the same complaint ,5
Rodney—a much smaller
685 tons, while the old Canopunissdeha.dd793 tons.gi On another,
ship than the Albion--carr
of the water, whilst the
7 feet 8 inches, and 8 feet out
She hadnow
hem 61 feet. been sent
Albion only carried t
ofth ehestrn,reasntdo
threirmctahpetasinhiph.aidedaethuearllypobretesn7obfeleigted4itoincshheist
Malta.thgorueeenzeee,
eafn
dt
hThe
drop
pre obliged to hold on in conse-
quence the people of the Albion
shipped an immense quantity of
~hippehda;dexerocfisewdatheerrognuhnesr ilnowaersdtreocnkg,
nwfatetbr.em
built upon the old system? The steam navy was equally badly
p to send against a French vessel
which was a 4ti gun frigate, and
the Terrific, .
He next came to
She had been lengthened about sixty
one of the largest size.
and what was the result? Why that
feet by the Admiralty' ;
She was, in her altered state,
If up.
she could not bear herself
inches above the water. She went to the
managed in consequence
to
thcearfrryequmeanitn-adlteenrkatiognusnsandstmannily.
only four feet eleven
Wwaesrethautnaablfiet ship
deck was but four feet four
her
inchesenreedns,nitttht
ianntfgwothhni
ell while
wi,h.niettreheri,,,,
andhsei
xr mainmitheyi,s
port holes, to keep the water
had been obliged to cork
the in
Terrible, which was built at Wool-
wich,out. He now came
etoat talent and experience, and it was ex-
by a man and proper man-of-war.
Now the Beard ofAdmiralty
in ing, and although she was
i of the dock w
coast of Africa ; and h
absolutely forgot to have any stern-ports
' 1860 tons burden, they
pected that she
heroweintgurled shipturn wasout building, 7ldall
had
le
a

.r.
'f_ "~'~-

4.........................„,
made in her. The consequence was, they bad to cut down her put under the control of the First Lord of the Admiralty,
stern-deek, in order to accommodate the guns, and then they had and if the docks were put under the second or the third Lord,
to hunt about to get guns to suit. The how ports of this shipliad he believed that matters would turn out much more correctly.
also been very badly eoestructed. She was a ship. nevertheless, He spoke from experience when he slid that, for he had had the
that steamed well, and was efficient in several ether respects.— building of one ship himself; he had to consult with the Wilder,
( Hear, hear.) But let them wait a little before they cheered, with the engineer, and with the others; but he had invariably
they were not yet out of the wood. She was to have been had the builder and the engineer brought _ together,
constructed to carry 800 tons cf coal, but when it was stowed ' so that by their frequent consultations each might know the
in her, it was found she would not stow away under decks ' other'sdidies and preparations more perfectly, and soaharmony
more than 350 tons, or coal for four dais, at the rate of 85 : he established which alone could ensure correctness and adapta-
tons a day. They had been obliged to get coal bunkers built Lion. He was sure that without that, they could not go on as
on the deck, and then she could not carry more than 500 or ! they ought, and yet, as it was at present, the builder was per-
-550r tons. But 'his was not the only fault of the Terrible, ,
ha .s at Portsmouth and the engineer at Woolwich, and all
her paddle-boxes were elevated greatly above the decks, and ' thateach had'of the other's work, was what could be supplied by
her steam-boxes and boilers were actually six feet five inches i drawings. He felt assured that his Suggestion as to the diva-
above the level of the water. The engines were so
that in a fight there would be no escape If a shot were fired ii ad t d •
placed ! sion of services by the Lords of the Admiralty would yet be
into the boiler, then below, about forty persons in number 1
Watt?
impossible
oaseishpliate
thatthe hFirstec 0 whoeveruLlodrdexedte alhl e
theoi i ghdtotbiees;
which
rieiht
would be completely cooked. In fact boiled by
the steam.
If such a thing were to happen the result would be that I much less if he
; he was expected to do were lie a young man of 30 yesrs of age,
were a man at 76, as his friend Sir George
not a stoker would be got' ogo into the navy. The Retribu. '
_Cockburn was. Another point to which he would address
Lion was a steam-ship of 1,641 tons, and her main-deck was himself was the manning of the ships.. They were told that
but five feet six inches above the lower; she was unable to their men of war were not to be ships without guns, and they
carry main-deck guns. The Avenger of 1,442 tons was ex- were told that the 40-gun strips were manned with their corn-
' actly in the same predicament. The same might be said of ! plement. But what the of tin the
was number men at resent
the Bareemide, the Sampson, the Centau-, the Vulture, the i service? ' Why they were 4,000 sheet. •
Pegasus, the Dragon, the Firebrand, the Orion, and several I Mr ►WA 111)—(laughingt-4,000 men over. That was not
others. Not one of these could carry ma'n• deck guns. They a great mistake.
could not go into action, and could only carry eight days fue: at I Sir CN A PIER—WeII, but the late Government, when the
the most. If they did go into action, from the poet ien of their came into offiee, madelareeeprofeeeions. Sir George Cockburn toldy
boilers and paddle-boxes, they would be cerlain of destruction. them that their line-of-battle ships and the other ships of war
must be properly manned, and he began on a magnificent
He rememberedin 1841 he clutiOned the' Board of Admiralty'
aga:nst the construction of iron steam eese.is and if they scale: But what wag the end of it? Why, when the
hailt them, to plank them outside and in with timber. Yet, squadron which was then fitted out put to sea, the sailed
they had not taken his advice, and had gone on with one-third less
teen than their complement, and the
building iron steamers without ever having tried a vacuity was filed with marines. But it
was said that the
shot neon one of them. Here was a fine list, indeed, of squadron was out upon trial ; yet there were three of the ships
no less than thirty-three iron steamers built, or laid down for at that moment in the Mediterranean, and one of them was
bild ng from 1840 to 1847. They had net tried a single shot at Leber]. If there were 4,000 men above the complement,
on an iron steamer till very lately, and then they found that he wished to know how they were to be paid out of the esti-
the shot went clean through one side, and almost through the mates of the present year? Last year they were 150 men
other. These steamers would cost about two millions of short, and this year they were 4,000 men over the complement
money, or taking the latee steamers with the small ones about —how, then, could this extra number be paid out of a vote
fifty thousand pounds each. If they would not cost two nail. no larger than, if it was so large, as it was last
lions s'erling, they would at least a million and a-half. They year ?He must appeal to his Right Hon. Friend behind him,
were, in fact, perfectly useless, The Birkenhead steamer had and take his wonted argument that with so small a vote they
boon turned into a troop ship, then she would not carry more would be cblig, dto have recourse to amounts voted for differ-
than 450 troops, and had no place for cable_tints. But she ent purposes, a course which was not to be approved of, for
was rot fit for a troop ship in the time of war, for if she went thus they did net know what this Government was doing. If
into action and received a shot she would go to the bottom, they wished money for any object, that object ought to be
and all the troops would be drowned. In fact, it would he named, and a vote specifically taken for it. The Noble Lord
necessary to supply all the men with auecollam__( Laughter.) The the Member for Lynn had chotten to think and to say of him
Admiralty si.ould sell them all, One of them the Grapier, he (Sir C. Napier) that he who had just stepped off the quarter-
had been informed, was nearly lost the other day on the coast deck into the dockyard could not be well fitted to
of Africa. He also complained of the screw vessels which had enter upon the discharge of his duties. Perhaps
been constructed. It seemed that 17 w, re in the progress of he ( Sir C. Napier) might say of the Noble- Lord, that he
being built, and only one had been completed, the Rattler. who hail just stepped off a quarter-deck peculiar to himself—.
Doubtless the vessel ought to have a fair teal, and he hoped it for Newmarket and Epsom were the quarter decks which he
would succeed; but he considered one ought to have had a fair had walked, and which he bad left to come into that House—
trial before 17 others were contracted for. What he had-now could not have been very familiar or very much a master of
shown was sufficient to prove that great blame was due not the duties which he was called upon to perform. But be
only to the late Board of Admiralty, but to every Board of would tell the Noble Lord that his (Sir C. Napier's) vessel
Admiralty that had' sat for many years. He now came to the would be ready on Saturday night to
_put to sea on a trial
great change in the navy last year, and the condition the sere cruise, and he would invite the Noble Lord most heartily to
vice was in, prior to the brevet. In 1816 the service consisted take a trip with WAR, -He would give him si trip round the of 1 admiral of the fleet, 66 admirals, 68 vice-admirals. 75 Isle of Wight, and as good a battle" of—(Laughter)—its good
rear-admirals, 831 captains, 812 commanders, ar d 4,012 lieute- a bottle of port as he scald get in the'kingdom, and perhaps
nants. This immense number was repeatedly complained that would prove a salatium to his wounded feelings over the
of, yet up to 1830 it remained the same. The loss of his Railway Bill.—( Laughter and " Hear, hear.")
Government became then ashamed of this enormous list, Mr. CORRIE rose to make a few observations in reply to
and resolved, on the 27th of July, 1830, that no promotions the Gallant Admiral who had made his speech now for the
should be made, brilliant exploits excepted, except one pro- sixth time, as Haneard up stairs would show. Especially he
motion to every three vacancies. (The Hon. arid Gallant must notice one -point of importance, not only to the
Member here read the decision of the Admiralty to that effect.) Admiralty, but to the nation at large—he meant the
Matters, however, continued bad enough till last year, when building of iron vessels. The Admtralty felt it their
the provision was made for the retirement of many of the duty to encourage ship-building, from a material
officers on the list. On the 30th of September last year there which abounded in 'the kingdom. They were aware that the
were 171 It ig officers—these were reduced to 139; there were timber used in the dockyards was for the most part of foreign
858 captains, which were reduced to 730; there were 918 growth, and that during the last war there had been an exees-
commanders, which were reduced to 855; arid 3,5.0 lieu- sive demand for it. It was natural, therefore, if they could do
tenants, which were reduced 2,558. 30,000/. was granted for it with equally good effect to the navy, that the Admiralty
a retiring allowance, and the flag officers were reduced should wish to encourage the use of materials possessed by
to 150, and the captains to 500. But the first thing Great Britain within her own territories. He thought these
the Government did at the same time was to increase were quite reasons sufficient to justify the late Board of Admie
the flag officers to 160, though by vacancies which had ralty in constructing steamers of iron. But the Gallant
since taken place, the number was only two above the Admiral thought that this experiment was carried
150. Though they had reduced the captains' list, what did to toe great an extent. Now, out of these 33
they do ? They promoted 60 commanders to the post of vessels, he should put nine out of the list. Several of
. captains. This was undoubtedly a breach of the arrangement them were very small vessels, and he should, therefore,
they had previously come to. No promotions should have been only take twenty-four on which he should make any remarks.
made till the caetains were reduced to boo. On this subject The Gallant. Admiral had stated that these iron ships strained
he trusted he would get the assistance of the Hon. Member so that there was great danger of both crews and cargoes being
for Montrose (Mr. Hume), in order to take the sense of the lost. That was the first time that he bad ever heard such a re-
House on these promotions, which, if persisted in, would place port, and just as he had a paper put into his hands by an Irish
a vast amount of patronage annually in tire hands of the Go- gentleman who had made 250 iron vessels, some of them of as
vernment. Instead of doing as they had done, it the Govern- much as 1,800 tons, all of which were seaworthy; and he need
ment would make but one promotion for every vacancy he only take the instance of the Great Britain, now lying in
Dun-
thou
ght. the service would soon be brought. into a healthy state. drum Bay, where it has been sebject to a very heavy sea, with-
He had almost forgot one thing of some importance, which he out that straining of which be complained ; but of the twenty-
had intended to point out to the Admiralty ;he was glad he had four vessels. one was built only for the purposes of experiment
recollected it. He had just been pointing out the monstrosity on the screw propeller, and only six, the Birkenhead.
of their constructing 20 screw vessels without trying any of and five others, that had been built for war yes.
them except one, and 30 iron vessels, of which they had actu- sels. The others they had taken, because they could
ally tried none ; but there was another fact which nearly equals get no others. Subsequently to the Nemesis being built,
slat, if it did not excel it. What did they suppose it was? another vessel of much larger dimensions had been built. It
Why, the Admiralty had given orders for four line-of-battle was of 1,31/0 tons, an-I they had the report of a ship-builder of experience for the assurance that no vessels could better
great
ships, and four seventy-four gun frigates being cut down.
Granting that object might turn out of use, what answer the purpose. Now, in refutation of this prejudice
was even more than that was, that they made against the use of iron for war vessels, he would read comma-
no contract with the builder who was to accomplish nieations from commanders who had these vessels. One was
it. This it seemed they were not in the habit of doing; for from Captain Hall, who had the Nemesis, and he said that the
he was told that in the case of one of the ships which was Nemesis had been struck as many as fourteen times in action,
being built, he believed, in Mr. Green's yard, he was told there but only one shot could have been said to pass quite through
was no contract, and that they just sent in their hill once a the ship, and he had never oberved any particular -
month for payment. He hoped to be told that he had been from splinters from iron. Other shots glanee harmless danger
away
misinformed as to there being no contract. But here they bad The hold of the Nemesis was divided into seven Rater-tight
four line-of-battle ships and four frigates to be cut down, be- compartments, and her bottom had been repeatedly pierced
sides the war vessels on the stocks, and what, he asked, was the by sunken rocks, and yet no danger had ensued ; and his
estimated amount of the expense ? What was the vote to be opinion was decidedly in favour of iron over wooden vesseli.
taken? The vote of last year was 18,000'.; what was Captain Hall was a man of as great experience as any man in
the vote of the present session ? 18,00 W. would do this. or any other country. Tnen there was the evidence also
no more than build one good vessel ; it was im- of Captain Charleville. who had the Guadeloupe. The vessel
possible it eould do more than cover the . expense which he commanded was struck by a 24-pound shot, fired
of the vessel in Mr. Green's yard. But then again there hem a distance of 1,000 yards, and the hole made was not was the case of the Vampire ; her bows was pulled to pieces, larger than just sufficient to allow the shot to pass through.
and she was to be made into a bad steam-boat ; they were to Another shot, an IS-pounder, struck the counter when fired
have a bad steam-boat for a good frigate. The vote of last from seven hundred
yards, and it only indented the iron, and
year was 18,000 t. He begged again to ask what was the vote then passed away. Another shot, which passed through ber
for the present year? He found that the vote of last year side, lodged in the coal bunker, but without starting a single
for building iron steam vessels was lee,ooo/. , and this year the belt. There were a variety of other instances which were
vote to be asked from the House was 100,175'. When Mem- -given-by-some of the -most-eminent officers in the British
hers came to vote away such a sure of mosey as that, they na- navy, all tending to the same effect. So that he believed that
turally wished to know, and they ought to know, how it was to the.late Board of Admiralty ought to be quite exonerated (rota
be spent. For his part, he did hope that the present Board 01 all blame; yet he believes that the present Board was quite
Admiralty would spend it better than the• last board. rieht in holding their hands, and in refraining from going to
had done. He would not speak harshly of .them just the expense of constructing iron steamers until they had the
low'for as yet they had had but little time fullest assurance that they were fit for the purposes of war.—
office. One thing,« he must mention before ( Hear, hear.) The Gallant Admiral had charged the late
he resumed his seat. He understood that a commission had Board with rashness in orderingso many as seventeen schooners,
been sitting at the Admiralty, with a view to increase the pay but it should be recollected that these vessels were built for the
of the lieutenants. He thought that there ought to be a corn- screw propeller. This was a charge that could hardly be sus-
mission, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, he believed, tained. for if these iron vessels were not fitted for war
purposes,
agreed with him, to increase the wages and so raise the status they would at any rate be fit for the conveyance of troops and
of their engineers. He said it was a most singular thing, but stores; and many of these schooners had been built from
a fact as true as singular, that Government had never seat out a a justifiable cause, that arose from the state of the
steam-vessel which had not broken deen—and what was the relations between this country and France. The
reason? It arose from the parsimony of the Government, Gallant Officer (Captain Pechell) said that there
who gave low wages, and engaged thereby a low class of men, were the block ships, but it should be recollected that they
who were ill qualified to do the duties of their office. wanted vessels to move quickly about, and block ships were
When a steam-vessel was built and the machinery put in, the totally unfit for experiments. He would not have troubled the
Government had neverappoiuted the engineer, previously, to see House to such a length but he was anxious to defend the late
that the machinery, the cranks, and shafts, were properly and Board of Admiralty from the attacks that had been made
efficiently constructed, and properly put up. In fact, there was up 'n it.
one case—he would not mention names—but he knew that a Admiral DUNDAS thought that the attack of the Gallant
steam-boat was constructed by order of
,the Government, the Admiral was most unfair and unjust, especially as respected
'machinery was put in, and the engineer, who had the superin- the promotion of officers. He found by looking at the officer's
' tendence of put
n,
and put in the n achinery, knew lists in 1816 and 1846 that as many as 1,454 offieers had died.
that he was putting in insu t cient machinery at the time, and The admiral's list had been reduced from 210 to 56; the cap-
the consequence was, that when the vessel put to sea, she broke Cain's list from 851 to 697 ; the lieutenant's from '4,317 to
'down. His opinion was, that if the Government would in- 4,248. With respect to the number of promotions that had
crease the wages of their engineers to a sufficient amount, and been made, he could state to the House that upwards of 160
raise their station to a higher grade—say the rank of Lieu • lieutenants had been promotedsfor meritorious services rendered
tenants—(Mr. Ward :' i hey have it.") Sir Charles said to the country, and he only regretted that double that number
he was glad to hear it; but if they would increase had not been
promoted, in order that the Government might
their wages also, and appoint them in time to inspect the ma- show their sense of the services that had been rendered to the
chinery as it was being put on hoard, he was convinced that country.
the effect would be immensely beyond any anticipation the Captain HARRIS was glad that this attack had been made,
House might be prepared to make on the subject. Another as it had elicited the statements that had just been made on
still furl her rejoiced to
point to which he wished to citasv the attention of the Ad- both sides of the House, d
marshy, was their officers— he. meant their petty officers. hear that our large vessels of war were not to be laid aside,
He said the -naval officers had been continually rated in that and that our seventy-four gun
.ships were not to b e put out of
House and throughout the country' by persons who knew no- commission for the sake of
using steamers. With retard to
thing about the subject they, were talking upon ; but, if Go- steam
. .boats, he concurred with been said upon
vernment would pay their first class and second class of officers subject; but he did not think the steam-boat system had
thatl:tetter these rate, and their seamen also, they would yet been sufficiently developed. There was another point he
fitrulamen would feel it punishment enough to wished to allude to, though he was loath to do so; but after
it hhold their wages, and the consequence would very soon be chat had occurred the other evening, he f :It .itto be his duty
what all corporal punishments would disappear from the to do so. He deprecated very much the issuing of such
tnavy. He expressed his fervent hope that the Admiralty an order as that ment.onee the other night by the Right Hon.
would this year pay attention to the recommendations of that Secretary to the Admiralty, because, if the commander could
commission. One thing that he wished to press upon the not be entrusted with the power of correcting the men under
Secretary of the Admiralty was that he would establish at least him without previously consulting a senior officer, he ought not
one single seaman's home at one of the ports; he begged dis- to be entrusted with the power at all. He would limit the
tinctly to press this upon the attention of the Right Hon Gen- power of punishment to thirty lashes, and make that number
leThey had been told again and again by the Government uniform both for home and foreign service. The punishment
thetforma
e last four or five years that the Merchant Ssamen's might be reduced by degrees, but be thought it could not con-
Fund should be upheld.
.But now he begged positively to ,intently with the maintenance of due discipline be abolished
ask the Government whether they intended or not to smelts- altogether. As another mode of punishment for slight offencee,
rate the here ant Seaman's Fund; he begged they would .uch as drunkenness, &c., he would suggest that the allowances
either do so at once or give it up altogether. The seamen of meat and grog should be seduced
themselves said their wages were partially withheld by the Go- Alr. HUME said the subject ot improving ship building for
cernmeet for the support of this fund, and they received no be- the navy was one of considerable importance to the country,
nefit whatever from it. They begged, therefore, that Govern- and did he not know that the matter
was under the considers.-
merit would either repeal the Act authorising the collection of tion of the Government he should have felt called upon to
the fend, or so alter it that they would benefit from it, Again, bring it before the House. Naval architecture had long been
he begged to draw the notice of the Admiralty neglected in this country, and it was a matter of disgrace to the
to the Registration Bill about which so much had country that its modals for ship building for the navy had been
been said of late, and not a little against it. taken from the Spaniards, the Dutch, and other nations.
A Bill was brought in some years ago, by his Right Some improvement ought to be introduced into the naval lye;
Honourable Friend, for the registering of the names of tem of the country in that respect, and he was very glad
the seamen, and for the furnishing them with tickets. It had hear that the matter was being inquired into. With regard to the
been said that that measure had proved ineffectual ; but be subject of promotion, he would defer his observations
en
laid belfPoe
quite differed from that opinion, and he would read a letter that point till a return of the promotions had been
which he had just received from a friend well able to judge on the House, and, when that report did come, he should be
the subject, which would show that such an opinion was ill- prepared to prove that the promotions of past years had been
founded. The Gallant Admiral here read the letter, stating extravagant and inconsistent. He was noo advocate
o for in-
that the registrations for 1845 had been 207,813, and for 1816 creasing the wages, nor was he. disposed t adpt the .____sagg_este
the number of tickets issued was 230.892; but in the latter tion to employ the navy in carrying food fromabroad,a _Dna
year it was found that the number of desertions was it would derange the commercial system of the mu te•ynd
sub.
2,341. The letter concluded by stating the writer's belief that would decidedly do away with corporal punishment, =
the effect of this Act would be the production of great good stitute for it an improved maond_ethofeeilumcaistihotnd.opeLnedt tuhpoenGniteernst;
He (Sir C. Napier) said there were still difficulties and defects ment adopt that course,
and _ a
tethet
in the measure, but he had seen an able friend the other day, men would be more satevatdym
ofd
and he proposed as a means of remedying these, that some was an enemy to thmeeny e
navy,
which shouldtber
l inducementsteijr du duty. y.r a
rather
gentlemen should be appointed to superintend the registration, bounties f
who, as soon as a bargain was struck between the seaman and preferred
d increase exactly
theca ptain, should register it, and the good effects, he believe ,
world.
aer steady system of nht
:oritaft ent
holding
hngtwieova negte s w
would very soon be felt. He would now trespass shortly on the of the
e SPEAKER then left the Chair, and the
in the same ratio as wages in everyffatiostheerwpianritt
attention of the House, while he drew their notice to the Th
subject of enlistment. His Friend opposite, the Right Hon. into
NAVY ESTIMATES
Baronet (Sit C. Wood), had brought in a Bill, which in the a Committee of Supple, Mr. Gem/a in the Chair.
event of war, was intended to have the effect of inducing Mr. WARD then rose to introduce the navy estimates. He
the seamen to come forward immediately upon her Majesty's said—Sir, I have a difficult duty to perform in laying before the
proclamation. One of the provisions of that measure was to House the navy estimates for the year, owing, first, to the large..
entitle those who came forward within five days aftertheiaro.
entitle
the
ess
expenditure;of but I will still do my best to make them as
those actually in service to a bounty of another amount. the expediture ; and, secondly, to the great variety of
clamation, to a bounty of 10/. ; and another wasto
ho, Booou i
year
exceeds, as possible. s i6b12e:840
will
NtNo,weuxtt,hcSteehei rides, s
ttahi
mrteihs
ea
that
arises
ofpsrosrofomepsottslibeamdes at:ptleaeysetfeuoairryiserta
rhibtt
in
wanted again, suppose they
now suppose the House should vote
of the Exchequer The net vote
supplya of
men, the moment the Chancellor u
-,t be prepared with ad sum nearly like 500,000/. But, a still greater amount, b
five thousand men in a popular of the credit account of this year. This year
a; s svoe,t‘ttavte
dthleasty apparenteay. elxpceesvfsetestl7y7a,ooogreel.
war, they would theha an overwhelini g number would amounted creits amount only to 175,000/., while last Tear they
come forward out of merchant service, and immediate to 1 90,0001.
tee be to injure that service. He wished that some more in money than w •
effeetta wool,
could be made• so that men could be called out by well the observation. that were made the other night by my
acrlar:segs, an arrangement, for example, which would compel Hun. Friend the Member for Portsmouth, and my Hon.
every boy, who hai served his apprentice hip in the merchant Friend the Member for Coventry, upon the financial
service, to go the first or the second year after state of the Exchequer, when they impressed epees
into the war service, for a certain period, when he the House that nothing is more deserving the attention
would be trained to his duties on board a ship of of Parliament or more required the watchfulnes of Perlis,- war. and should thereby be fitted for her Majesty's ment, the probable tendency of navy estimates to increase ia
service, and at the same time acquire a knowledge and a liking times of peace. The referred to the standard of 1834 and
of its superior eharacter. He begged once more that the Go 1835, when the navy estimates only amounted to 4,245,0001.
vernment would take into consideration the composition of the Perhaps I might ails them why they did not go still further
Board of Admiralty. That was a subject which he had often back ?. Why they did not go back to 1817, when the number
brought before the House, and he felt the necessity of doing so
again. The mistakes that were committed were most They 4' Icommon sense
of seaman voted for the service of the year was only 17,000 ?
nu- ey lc not do so, because their own
found
marous, and they were all attributed to the First Lord told them that in that fact was of the Admiralty ; but that was, in t fix
a great tree- our justification. It shows that a country
sure, the fault of the First. Liedofpublic expenses,
the A dmi• es owh exp, nditure in matters connected with
'the
upon himself, there was a great. deal too much
thrown - What may be ample provision only two years after the
ution him. The three Lords ot the Admiralty had all i termination of an expensive war, affecting every,. con.
liketethisli.,ane no
the docks under their management according- to the I tinental state, may not prove sufficient twenty years afterwards,
evessary for the purposes
present arrangement; but if this were altered—if the fleet were I mean the power which is strictly a

.._
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