The Sun.
London, England, 1849-03-08 00:00:00

rbtril Wbition

SUN OFFICE, Seven o Clock.

SOUTH-EASTERN RAILWAY•

It would be remembered that some time ago they were
obliged to lodge a large sum of money with the Account-
ant-General in respect of new lines. When those lines
were abandoned the money was returned to them, at a
time when they found some difficulty in disposing of ,it,
and by an almost unanimous resolution of the board a
portion of it was ordered to be invested in the shares of
the concern.—(Cheers.) He concluded by moving the
adoption of the report, and that a committee of inquiry,
consisting of Messrs. Dickson, F. C. Smith, L. Mozley,
M. Ryan, and S. G. Walker, be appointed to investigate
the affairs of the company, and to report to an ajourned
meeting, to be held on the 12th of April next.
Mr. KINNARD, one of the recently-elected directors,
seconded the motion, and in doing so took occasion
to comment upon the unseemly division which had taken
place in the direction. It was quite impossible that the
company could be successfully carried on while an ill-
feeling existed between particular members of the board
of management.—(llear, hear.) The proprietors, then,
must determine whether Mr. M. L. Pritchard and his
two supporters should remain in office and find their
own colleagues, or whether they would continue their
confidence in the majority of the directors.—(Hear,
hear.) At all events, either Mr. Pritchard and his
friends must go cut, or the other directors muht
surrender their trust into the hands of their cons
stir uente.—(Cheers.)
Mr. LEVY hoped the meeting would stand none of
Mr. Kinnard's humbug.—(Hear and laughter.) Ile
remembered well that in 1845, when he took occasion to
tell the East-rn Counties that Mr. Hudson was a hum-
bug, Mr. Kinnard threatened to have him turned out.
—(:sheers and laughter, and cries of " Question.")
Well, he was coming to the question ; he wanted
them to stand none of the Chairman's, or Mr. Kin•
nard's pallaver—(Cheers and laugh ter)—but appoint
a committee out of their own body, and not leave
the matter in the hands of the directors.—(Cheers.)
Mr. CUNLIFFE, one of the opposition committee, an-
nounced his intention to move an amendment, which
gave rise to a good deal of noise and uproar. He at-
tributed the depreciation of the shares to the dissen
sions which existed in the direction, and unless they
made some change in that body, they could never hope
to see any improvement in their property.—(Cheers.)
lie moved as an amendment a similar resolution, but
varying the names.
Mr. SIMPSON seconded the amendment, and remarked
that one fact would be sufficient to wove the necessity
for inquiry. At the last half•yearly meeting Mr.
Pritchard stated that 8,000,0001. would be amply suffi-
cient to complete their works, but it now turned out that
nearly 2,000,0001. were to be added to that sum.
Mr. M. L. PRITCHARD in an able speech defended
himself against what he called the insinuating attacks
which had been made upon .him from the chair,
and declared that the statement just alluded to by
Mr. Simpson was made upon the faith .of
statements of the Chairman. He was then ignorant of
the charge which had since been made against the capi-
tal. Had their expenditure remained at 8,000,000/. the
line would have been a property; but go beyond that
sum, and, so tar as profit was concerned, they might as
well sink it in the sea.—(Hear, hear.) Now, then, was
the time to stop the expenditure. For his part, had his
advice been followed, not a spade would have been put
into the land from Rye to Hastings, and from
Hastings upwards, and the proprietors might take his
word for it, that in making those lines they were digging
the grave of their property.—(Cheers.) With regard to
the hint thrown out by Mr. Kinnard, that the minority
ought to give way, he would take leave to ask who was
Mr. Kinnard, who came there, with an infantine interest
and connexion with the concern, to advise an old servant
of the company, who had spent his time, his
money, and his :substance in its service.—(Cheers.)
Were the proprietors aware that on the day Mr. Kin-
nard was elected a director he was a contractor of the
company, :but by a wave of the harlequin's wand his
contracts were transferred.—(Cheers and laughter.) He
should not then take such a man's advice to " cut his
stick."—(Hear, hear.) lie was there under Act of Par-
liament—no man had a right to turn him out, and he
should not quit the board until he had set the house in
order.—(Cheers.)
Mr. J. WILSON wished to ask the Chairman four
questions. First—What the piece of plate cost the com-
pany which was presented to Lord Torrington on his
retiring from the directory? Second—What the dinner
coat which was given on the occasion of the presenta-
tion? Third—Were not 1,000 No. 4 shares kept in the
books for Lord Torrington if he chose to take them, and
allowed to remain on the books till they had greatly
fallen in price? And Fourth—What account were these
sums charged to?—(Cheers.) He complained that no
auditors had ever been appointed.
The CHAIRMAN said that fault rested with the share-
holders.—(Oh, oh.) Let them, however, appoint audi-
tors now. Now, as to the questions, the plate cost
2,Bool.—(Shame.) It was charged to the capital.
The dinner cost 3001.—(Oh, oh, and shame.) The 1,000
No. 4 shares were rated to the Noble Lord.—(oh, oh.)
;:as,,Mr. Alderman SALOMONS denounced the practice of
publishing insinuations against the directors without
stating the grounds for them; but he thought the only
way to prevent such practices was to appoint an impar-
tial committee of inquiry.—(Cheers.)
Mr. LEWIN MOZLEY zanse prepared to put many ques-
tions to the Chairman, but after that lion. Gentleman's
clear explanations and candid invitation for inquiry, he
thought it best to uhstain fri m putting them, and urged
the meeting to adopt the original resolution.
Mr. Tuostesots, one of the directors in theminority,
co-nplaine f that he was struck off the finance committee,
because he expresed a desire to look closely into the
accounts.—(hear, and Shame.) He assured the meet-
ing tt at the books of the company were in a very in-
complete state. During the last two years speculations
in Consols to the extent of upwards of 3,000,0001. had
been made, and yet the papers and books relating to
those transactions were still open, and he could get no
information about them.—(Hear, and shame.) He saw
by the books that 15,0001. had been advanced to the
chairman's private brokers, and in reference to that
transaction he ceuld obtain no information.—(Shame.)
These were some of the reasons which induced him to
oppose the majority of the direction and court inquiry.
Mr. BROGDEN, the other dissentient director, said his
son would read to them a statement of the part he had
taken in the transactions, but a scene of indescribable
confusion took place, and it was some time before Mr.
Brogdan, jun., could get a hearing. Some of the share-
holders called out that he was a mere boy, and he ought
to be put down. The boy, however, met this ungenerous
remark with the indignant declaration that, boy though
he was, he would not stand by and and bear his fa-
ther calumniated without making an effort to
defend him. The meeting, however, by the most dis-
cordent noises, mingled with hisses and yells, succeeded
at last in putting the young man down, and after some
further confusion and discussion the amendment was ne-
gatived, and the original resolution agreed to. A
.poll
was demanded, and deferred.
The dividend mentioned in the report was then de-
clared payable on an early day.
It would be difficult to describe the scene that fol-
lowed, but it was something like this:—
Mr. WIRE said he would just look at the names on the
committee.—(Cries of " Down, down—don't make Ion"
speeches—turn him out.") He knew Mr. Cunliffe well.
Mr. CCINLIFFE—NO, you don't sir—you never saw
me till to day in your life.—(Yells.)
Mr. MORGAN—IT tell you something about Mr. Cun-
liffe then. He called upon me and said, if I would give
him my proxy, he would put me in possession of some
information about the South-Eastern. I said, " Give me
the information first ;" but he said, " Oh no."—(Turn
him out, and yells, hisses, groans, and stamping of feet.)
Mr. COLEMAN saw nothing in the accounts charged for
solicitors. How much had been paid to them P—(Cheers.)
The CHAIRMAN—I don't know.
Mr. COLEMAN—You ought, then, give me an answer,
sir.—(Another storm of voices.)
The CHAIRMAN—I have been charged with carrying
tha funds of the company in my breeches pocket, and
now I am asked if I have not got the accounts in my
head.

nary egret •went had been entered into with that
company, which would be submitted to the
meeting for its approval and confirmation. There had
been a large, amount of arrears upon the calls, and under
recent circumstances the directors had forborne to en-
force them, but they would now be compelled to do so.
The total teceipts from the commencement of the un-
dertaking was 97,9991. 105. 2d., and the expenditure
97,1551. ls. 7d., leaving a balance of 8441. /4s. 7d.
The report was received and adopted, and the meeting
made special.
The heads of the agreement with the Chester and
Holyhead Company were then read and confirmed, and
the directors ordered to carry the agreement into effect.
Mr. Henry Kingsford was appointed aladitor of the
accounts.
A vote of thanks having been passed to the Chairman
the meeting was adjourned until the 6th of June next.

(THIS DAY.)
'e usual half-yearly general meeting of the proprie-
tery of the above railway was held this afternoon, at the
Brcige House Hotel. The meeting was called for one
o'clock, but long before that time the large ball-room
at the top of the hotel was tilled with shareholders.
Soon after one the directors, headed by Mr. James
Macgregor, the chairman, entered the room; their ap-
pearance was the signal for slight manifestations of ap-
plause, but it would be
difficult to whethersay thclean-
pliment was intended for Mr. Macgregor or Mr. Martin
Luther Pritchard, the deputy-chairman, who is at issue
with the majority of the board upon the question of ap-
pointing a committee of inquiry.
Mr. GEORGE HERBERT, the secretary, having read
the advertisement, the business of the day commenced
by the chairman proposing the affixing of the common
seal of the company to the register of proprietors.
Mr. A. K. BAKER moved an amendment, that it be not
affixed, amidst some confusion, and cries of " Chair,
chair, hear him, hear him, sit down, Sec."
The amendment having been seconded, the majority
of the meeting stoutly demanded that it should be put
at once.
Mr. A. K. BAKER, before it was put, was anxious to
ask whether it was true or not that the register con-
tained a number of shares which had been purchased with
the money of the company, and it so, whether the votes
in respect of those shares would be used in determining
any question to be disposed of to-day ?—(Cheers.)
The CHAIRMAN said the register contained all the
shares of the concern, and of course those belonging to
the company, but he Legged distinctly to state that the
Totes in respect of the company's shares would not be
made use of.—(Tremendous cheering.)
The amendment was then withdrawn, and the seal
affixed to the registers
Mr. HERBERT then read the report, which was to the
following effect
The traffic receipts for the half-year ending the 31st
January, have been 239,130/., and the expenses 117,1771.,
including 21,6321. for rent of the Greenwich and the
Whitstable and Canteekrury Railways, and 21,2931. rates
and Government duty, leaving a balance of 120,9531. The
same mileage of railway was open for traffic during the last
half-year as for the corresponding period of the previous
year, but the receipts from passenger traffic for the last
half-year were less by 15.2981., whilst there was an in-
crease of 6,1231. from goods, cattle, and parcel traffic, the
diminution of receipts during the half-year being 9,175/.
During the half-year the sum of 667,1921. has been paid
up by the proprietors on capital account; 370,9931. has
been paid during that period for land, and 80,4001. on
bonds and loan notes have been paid off, and 26,9001.
bonds renewed. The only Bill the company has before.
Parliament is for the purpose of authorising the partial
opening of the Ashford and Hastings, and Tonbridge-
Wells and Hastings lines, and to authorise the company
to become the owners of steam-boats. The directors
suggest that it may be arranged with the proprietors
of the present South-Eastern and Continental Steam-
packet Company to exchange their shares in that com-
pany, on terms to be agreed on, for shares in the railway
company. The cost of the eight steam-ships belonging
to ehe Steam-packet Company has been about 130,0001.,
and therefore 150,000/. may be considered as the full
amount of capital which would be required for this pur-
pose. The directors state that justice cannot be done to
the development of the continental traffic, unless that
service is performed more with regard to railway celerity
and punctuality, than to the profit derivedlfrom the voy-
age. The general effect of the extension of railway com-
munication on the continent is to accumulate the con-
tinental traffic with Great Britain upon Cellist and Bou-
logne. Hitherto the South-Eastern Railway has hardly
reaped any benefit by the traffic in merchandise from
the _continent; that traffic, however, it is just entering
upon, and the directors will make the necessary
preparations at Folkestone and Dover, at the Brick-
layers Arms station and the London-bridge ter-
minus, to enable the company to carry it on satisfac-
o ily. The directors are certainly entitled to great
credit and praise for their laudable exertions to
elsie!ish the useless system of passports between
France and England. The report states that
the French Government were appealed to by the
directors, in conjunction with those of the Northern
Railway of France and of the Boulogne and Amiens
Railway, to entertain the question of abolishing the sys-
tem of passports between France and England, end the
application was received with so much favour that the
directors believe that nothing but the exigency of the
moment has prevented its success, which they still look
forward to. The necessity of being provided with a
passport to make the now short journey from London to
Paris is a hindrance to traffic and intercourse which the
reciprocal feelings and englightened Governments of
both" countries must desire to remove. The directors
are also exerting themselves to establish a branch
custom-houee at. London-bridge wile the same laudable
view of facilitating commercial intercourse between the
two countries, and promoting the traffic on the railway,
which must also tend to the direct advantage of the
shareholders. It states that the directors anticipate
being enabled to establish bonded warehouses for nines
and other merchandise in the arches under the Green-
wich Railway, and that an examining-room for silks and
valuable goods will be permitted by' the Board of Cus-
toms at the station, so as to allow packages to come un-
opened under the Customs' lock from Dover and Folke-
stone to London. In addition t t these exertions, the
company have eerfosmed considerable service for the
Post-office, in forwarding the mails, and the increased
amount to which they are and will becenee enti led fur
its continuance will be settled by arbitration in the usual
manner, and for which they have not taken any credit
in their accounts. That it is probable, it the railway
company become the owners of the steam-boats, that
one contract will be made with the Post-office for
the railway and steam-bout service from London to
Boulogne and Calais. The opening of the
branch line to Folkestone, which took place on the Ist
of January last, affords great additional facility in
communicating with the continent, as travellers are
now conveyed without change of carriage to the steam-
boat quay at Folkstone, and the convenience has afforded
great satisfactian. At Dover the Government works
are proceeding, and the pier has been already extended
230 feet into the sea, and there cannot be a doubt that
when the present contract, which is for carrying the pier
800 feet into the sea, is completed, Dever will be a deep
water harbour, accessible at all times of the tide—
s result of great importance to the interests of the
South-Eastern Railway Company. The traffic de-
rived in consequence of the opening of the Great
Nor hern Railway of France to Calais has hitherto
been very slight; but from the 4th inst. an improved
service has been commenced from Calais to Brussels,
and vice versd, and the directors have not any doubt
that the traffic from the north of France and Germany
to Calais will greatly increase; in the meantime the
NOrthern Railway of France has united with the South-
Eastern Railway Company in providing sueh steamboat
accommodation as will insure the requisite communica-
tion with Folkstone or Dover. The harbour of Calais
ia now accessible in ordinary weather to steam-ships of
the draught of those of the South-Eastern and Conti-
nental Steam-packet Company at all times of the tide.
the comparisou of the through traffic between Lon•
don and Folkestone and D„ver for the last half-year and
the corresponding period of the preceding year shows a
decrease of 8,551 in the number of passengers; but, in
cons quence of an addition made to the fares, the de-
crease in receipts amounted to 3161. only. The directors
expect that the North Kent line will be opened for traffic
by the Ist of July. and the Reading, Guildford, and Rei-
gate line by the Ist of August next. The capital an-
unt to the 31st of January shows that 8,282,3421. his
been received, and 8,116,9141. expended, leaving a balance
of 165,428/."

-
The CIELRMAN, in commencing his address to the
shareholders, said the proceedings of to-clay demanded
the especial attention of the meeting, and it was due to
the proprietors., whose confidence the directors were
anxious to secure, that a full, a clear, and impartial
statement of the present position and future pros-
pects of the undertaking should hreitygtnt.h----e
ee (Chrs.) A short time ego the mei()
directors is ued a statement upon the financial affaits
of the cony, ny, and he could now assure the pro-
prietors that the figures in that statement were strict'y
accurate, and disclosed clearly and candidly the
real state of their finances.—(Cheers.) Latterly,
it had unfortunately become a too common practice with
some parties—but for what purpose he could not divine,
to make insinuations against the stability of this com-
pany—insinuations that were unscrupulously indul gcd
iu by those parties without letting out any clue by which
the grounds and reasons of their ta ckl ss assertions
could be ascertained; but if there really were any justi-
fication for these mysterious and injurious reports, let
those who circulated them come forward now
and defend their statements.—(Loud cheers.) The
truth was, however, and the truth must
be told, that the reports he alluded to were utterly des-
titute of foundation; but, in order that the proprietors
should not have simply his bare word for this, ta ssas
prepared before he sat down to move that a committee
of inquiry be appointed to investigate, without any re
serve, the books, accounts, and the entire management
of the company, and that this meeting be adjourned
till the 12th of April, to give that committee
an opportunity of preparing a report upon the
results of their inquiry.—(Tremendous cheering.)
Ie fact the directors courted inquiry, and if any improve-
ments could be suggested in carrying on the business of
the company, they would be the first to adopt them.—
(Hear, hear.) So much then for these insidious and
vague
reports of mat administration of the company's
affairs; and now, with the permission of the meet-
ing, he would say a few words upon the matter
of traffic.—(llear, hear.) It was to b 3 regretted,
and nobody more regretted it than the directors, that
the passengers using the railway had considerably de-
creased during the past year, but when they rernemb, red
the peculiar position of the line, and how entirely its
prosperity depended upon the tranquillity of the Conti•
nent, it ssas not to be wondered at that the disturbances
on the other side of the Channel had seriously affected
their interest.—(Hoar.) The aspect of affairs, however,
abroad writ happily undergoing a favourable change, and
he would take leave to repeat the opinion he gave on taking
office in 1844, that wilts prudent management their rail-
way possessed large elements of prosperity. Now, with
respect to the scandal which had gone abroad upon the
disputes which had arisen in the board—(Hear, hear)--
it had its origin in a resolution of the board to discuss
the contracts of Mr. Brogden, jun., in the absence of
his father, who was in the direction.—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. Brogden refused to sanction this resolution; and
then followed scenes which he thought it best to
allow to drop into oblivion.—(Hear, hear.) He would
now explain that the investment of money of the com-
pany it the-shares of the company arose in this way:—

Mr. COLE3fAN—Oh! that's nonsense. I can tell you
there have been 32,0001. paid to the solicitor.
The CHAIRMAN made some observations, which seemed
to imply that the information had come from the deputy-
chairmsn. _ _ _

WEST LONDON RAILWAY.
(TilIS DAY.)
The half-yearly meeting of this company was held at
the London Tavern to-day, at one o'clock; Mr. H.
H. Grounds in the cba.r.

From the report and speech of the chairman, it
appeared that atter the last meeting of the shareholders,
o,mmunlcations were opened with the North-Western,
who some years ago purchased the line, and agreed
to work it with the view of settling the
matter, a considerable time having elapsed
without the North-Western carrying their cove-
nant to work the line into effect. A communication
had been rectived from Mr. Stewart, the Secretary of
the North-Western, stating that the directors consi-
dered that the line could not be worked profitably, and
that the shareholders might 'nave possession of the
line on repaying the deposit money which that
company had lodged. A reply had been sent by the
directors of this company, intimating that alter the
delay that had taken place, and the injury the share
holders had sustained, that they could not look upon
the proposition seriously.
Considerable discussion took plack, in the course of
which
Mr. RIGBY moved " That the directors be empowered
to take such legal steps to protect the interests of the
shareholders as they might deem expedient."
As but a small number of shareholders were present,
and as it was desirous to obtain the sentiments of the
entire body, the meeting was adjourned for a month
with that view.

TATTERSALL'S-THIS EVENING
Six O'CLOCK.
NORTHAMPTONSHIRE STAKES.
9 to 2 agst The Tartar
8 to 1 agst Feruhill
14 to 1 agst Westow
METROPOLITAN HANDICAP.
6 to 1 agst Lugar
8 to 1 agst Can. aou
17 to 1 agst Do•the-Boys
TWO THOUSAND GUINEAS.
4 to 1 agst Uriel
4 to 1 agst Honeycomb
CHESTER CUP.
17 to 1 agst Joe o' Sot
20 to 1 agst Halo—taken
DERBY.
to 1 agst Flying Dutchman
15 to 1 agst Honeycomb
20 to 1 agst Osterley—taken
20 to 1 agst Uriel—taken
35 to 1 agst Escalade
Business very slack.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

(THIS EVENING.)

HOUSE OF LORDS.
The LORD CRANCNLLOR took his seat upon the
Woolsack at Five o'clock.

The Earl of ERNE presented a petition from some
place in the county of Fermanagh against the rate in aid.
Petitions with a similar prayer were presented by
the Earl of Fitzwilliam, Lord Monteagle, and the Earl
of Limerick.

The Earl of LUCAN presented some petitions with a
similar prayer; also a petition praying for the extension
of the poor-rate to mortgagees.
Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition against the
rate in aid from Mr. Macdonald. 11, (Lord Brougham)
would urge the Government to take the Irish gentle-
men at their word, and to give up the rate in aid in
order to get hold of a prcperty-tax. Such an offer was
made by this petition, and ho thought the Government
would do well to accept it.
Lord MONTEAGLE bore testimony to the high cha-
racter of all these petitioners.
COMMONS INCLOSURE BILL.
The Commons Inclosure Bill was read a third time,
and passed, on the motion of Lord CAMPBELL.
PALACE COURT.

Earl FORTESCUE moved that an humble address be
presented to her Majesty, beseeching her to lay before
the House the patent of Charles IL constituting the
Palace Court. He had moved for certain returns from
that Court, which did not furnish the information he
required. He felt that the existence of this Court had
become, since the institution of County Courts, nut only
perfectly useless, but a source ofgreat extortion.
Lord BROUGHAM thought it would be a matter
of regret to abolish a Small Debt Court, such as this
without absolute necessity. He had heard of a com-
plaint which had been made against this court, and in
which an attempt had been made to cast blame upon the
counsel practising in that court, but in that instance the
Learned Counsel had not been at all to blame.
The motion ri as agreed to.
PETITIONS.

Lord STANLEY presented a petition against the rate
in aid from some union in Ireland. The petitioners
also compli,ined of the system of out-door relief, and
prayed that every landlord should be made responsible
for the maintenance of his own tenants, and every
townland be made to support its own poor, and for pro-
tection to the Irish farmer. Also several other petitions
from Meath against the rate in aid; also from some place
in Lancashire, praying for some law for regulating the
sale of beer.

The Earl of WINCHILSEA presented a petition
against any alteration in the navigation-laws.
The Earl of CARLISLE presented a petitiou from
St. George's, Southwark, praying for an equalization of
the.poor-rates.
CASE OF MR. GOTTEN.

Lerd BEAUMONT gave notice that he should to-
morrow put a question to the Noble Marquis respecting
the illegal arrest of Mr. Gotten at Manilla by the officers
of the Spanish Government.
BUCKS ASSIZES BILL.

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE moved the third
reading of the Buckinghamshire Summer Assizes Bill.
The Duke of BUCKINGHAM opposed the Bill.
After a few words from the Marquis of LANS-
DOWNE, the Bill was read a third time and passed.

Mr. PRITCHARD indignantly denied this, but, as the
matter had been mooted, he would tell the meeting what
had been doae. No less than 35,0001. had been paid to
the solicitor fur fifteen months' work, against which pro-
ceeding he had protested.--(Sensation.)
The CHAIRMAN appealed to Mr. Cunliffe whether it
was worth while going to a poll, seeing that the proxies
stood thus—
For the Directors
inFs
Ft
Et
•
h
Mr. CAugNani leimd under these circumstanlcles27llBe would
decline going to the pill.
The other britinesi referred to in the report, such as
the election of directors, was then tardily and noisily
disposed of.
;dr lionnAND moved a resolution to the effect that no
sharebroker or contractor ought to have a seat in the
direction.
Mr. PRITCHARD took this resolution as a blow aimed
at himst lf, but he could assure the meeting that it would
not drive him from otlice until he had set the house in
order.
After a remonstrance against the resolution from the
chairman, Mr. Alderman Salomons, and Mr. L. Mozley,
the motion was withdrawn.
A petition to Parliament against the present system
of rating was then agreed to. After which a vote of
thanks were voted to the chairman and the directors,
and the meeting terminated.
The shareholders then resolved themselves into a
special meeting, and agreed to a resolution authorising
the directors to make the arrangements relating to the
steam boats.'

MOLD RAILWAY COMPAIN
Ty.
(THIS DAY.)
The half-yearly meeting of this company was held
this afternoon, at the offices of the Chester and Holy-
head Railway, Moorgate• street; Mr. Thomas presided.
The report stated that the directors had great
pleasure to announce that the works were i❑
such a forward state, that the main line might
be opened for passenger traffic in the approaching
summer, and that the branch for the mineral district might
be completed in the course of the autumn, thus rendering
the capital invested in this undertaking immediately re-
munerative. That progress had been accomplshed chiefly
by the aid of the Chester and Holyhead Railway Cora-
Fr-Inv, who were equally interested with the shareholdets
of this company in opening up the traffic of the district,
and without whose assistance it would have been impos-
sible for the directors, during the present monetary crisis
and the general depression of railway interests, to have
fulfilled the arrangement which they had undertaken on
behalf of the shareholders. Tho Chester and Holy-
head Company proposed to avail themselves of the power
granted by the 47th section of the Act fur the pur-
chase of the line, and for that purpose a ptehroi-

7 THE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY EVENING, MARCH 8, 1849.

Commissioners, founded on an erroneous construction of
the Poor Removal Act.

Mr. IBAINES bogged most sincerely to apologise
to his Hon. and Gallant Friend for the omission, but in
reply to that inquiry he must remind him that the board
could take cognizance of no cases of which the whole of
the particulars were not beforo them. This much, how-
ever, he might say, that according to the present state of
the law, the Poor-law Commissioners had no power to
re-open accounts that had been closed.

there was unavoidably formed a far larger stream of f
convicts at Van Diemens Land than the colony would
bear. The complaints of the colonists were sent
home. The population of the three colonies
were somewhere about thirty thousand were
overmatched in rapid succession by the accumulation of
convicts directed to that single point. The c mplaints
of the Van Diemen's Land colonists were sent home
early in the spring of 1846. At that time Lord Stanley
had been succeeded in the office of Secretary for the
Colonies by his (Lord Mahon's) Right Hon. Friend
who now represented the University of Oxford.
When the complaints of the colonies were so well
founded, it was really no more than any Minister
in the same situation ought to have done than to listen
to them. His Right Hon. Friend the Member for Rip( n
came to the conclusion that it was absolutely necessary
to support transportation to Nan Diemen's Land for two
years; but his Right lion. Friend the Membea for the
University at Oxford took another step also.
Lord Stanley had some time before sanctioned the
establishment of a colony iu North Australia, arid had
taken all the necessary steps for the formation of that
colony. Well now, he (Lord Mahon) brought the his-
tory of this question to the time when Earl Grey suc-
ceeded to the office ; when in the summer of
1846, there being a change of Government,
Earl Grey became Colonial Secretary. Now,
then, he (Lord Mahon) said that he should be
prepared to show that Earl Grey announced no less
than five changes in his views on this subject in the
period between November, 1846, and June, 1848.
What was the first step taken by Earl Grey ? lie
(Lord Mahon) wished to state this transaction as clearly
as possible. Earl Grey, on the 15th November,
wrote to Sir Charles Fitzroy-, and counter-
manded the instructions given by Lord Stanley.
and sanctioned by Mr. Secretary Batson on the forma-
tion of the colony. Now he (Lord Mahon) should have
occasion to return to that point. What was the next
step? Earl Grey, on the sth of February, 1847, wrote to
Sir W. Dennison, " I have to inform you that it is not
the intention of her Majesty's Government that transpor-
tation to Van Dieman's Land shall be reduced at the
the expiration of two years, for which it has been al-
ready decided it shall be continued." He (Lord Mahon)
asked, was Lord Grey justified in doing that. He might
be justified in deciding what he pleased at the
time, but he was not justified in saying,
after two years, that transportation should in no
possible case be resumed in Van Diemen's Land.
Well, then they were still in the first phase of Earl
Grey's Administration. The views of Earl Grey at
that time were set forth by himself with much clear-
ness, in his speech in the House of Lords,
on the sth of March, 1842. He said, "we wish to
carry into effect a change in the policy of the country'
with 'meet to punishment, of a very important kind;
bat that change is of no less an extent than the vir-
tual Abolition of the system of transportation, which
has so many pears prevailed under different regulations."
But then they had Earl Grey's words for the virtual
abolition of transportation. Convicts were to be sent
out to those colonies on no account whatever. Now this
was the first staee of Earl Grey's mistake. When, on
the 3d of June they had a debate in that house, and in
the course of the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman
the Under-Secretary for the Colonies, he stated
that Earl Grey had altered his opinion on that
particular point. That was stage the second of the
Noble Earl's mistakes. It was then stated that the colo-
nies were not to be sent out in the way of transportation,
but as compulsory exiles. That was the next stage.—
(Hear, hear.) This was confirmed by the despatch of
the Noble Earl to Earl Grey on the 12th February, to
Sir W. Denison. Here then was stage number two.
Lord Grey's opinion lasted on this point till the 27th of
April, 1848. In the papers laid before toe House previous
to the debate the Noble Earl appeared to intend to propose
the grant of a certain sum, as a remuneration for the
convicts which had been taken from Van Diemen's Land.
The Noble Lord then read some extracts from the dis-
patches, to show that the matter was what he reprsented.
Ze then resumed, and said that during the debate which
ensued, he referred to the dispatch of the Noble Earl,
he had asked the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite what
sum he intended to move for in the estimates on that
occasion. The Right Hon. Gentleman said that the sum
of 30,0001., was to be applied to the benefit of
Van Diemen's Land. This was the third stage. Now
came the fourth stage. In that stage only part of this
grant was to be appropriated to that colony. On the
occasion w hen the Noble Lord the Member for Bath
(Lord Duncan) brought the subject before the House,
and did as he always did on similar occasions, made an
able exposition of the matter, it came out that the Noble
Earl had reverted from the fourth to the third stage of
his mistake.—(Neer, hear.) Only a parr, not the whole,
of the money was to be applied to the relief of Van
Dieman's Land.—(Hear, hear.) Well, this year
they had another stage of the mistakes. They
had arrived at an epoch of great changes.
Earl Grey's opinion upon the question of Norfolk
Island seemed to him to have gone the round of the
press, but it had answered no earthly purpose.
The advantage of the colonies was this—that they might
there employ transports without endangering free
colonies, and without exposing them to contamination.
Many practical evils arise from the accumulation of
prisoners in the gaols of England and Ireland. An
uctive magistrate in Yorkshire had told him that the
aecumulie ion in the prisons was so great in
that county the magistrates were actually precluded
from comnsitting prisoners even where they deemed it ne-
cessary. Now, that was a system which the Government
ought not to sanction, and which ought not to exist fer
any considerable time. The moment gaols were
filled beyond what they could conveniently hold
all reformatory processes which were adopted
were obliged to be suspended. The Govern-
mnt were bound to p• • de some means to pre-
vent the collection of a great number of prisoners in one
gaol, which bad the effect of neutralising the benefit of
that reformatory discipline which this country was so
proud in having instituted. He next came to the prac-
tical suggestions which he thought it advisable
to make. He considered that the suggestions
put forward by Captain Maconochie, although he enter-
tained every respect for that Gentleman, ought
not to be ;received with implicit confidence.
He did not think that a single Member of
that House would agree with the unproportionate
importance which Captain Maconochil had attributed to
the use of music in gaols. The first suggestion which
he (Lord Mahon) had to offer was with
reference to the colony of North Australia.
He challenged the Hon. Under Secretary for the Colo-
nies to say that New North Australia did not present
a desirable spot for carrying out the object which Lord
Stanley and Mr. Gladstone had in view. The House
knew how ofteu convicts were the pioneers ot
free emigration, and how desirable it was that
they should be the means of paving the way for free
emigration. He thought the House had a right to
complain of the abandonment of the new
North Australian colony which Mr. Secretary Gladstone
had formed. When Lord John Russell put an end to
the system of transportation to New South Wales, the
free inhabitants ot the colony, in 1840, sent a
petition to the House, which was presented in 1840 by
Mr. Chas. Buller, who certainly was no mean authority
on the question. Of course, they felt the want ot the
abstraction of a large amount of labour. Acccording to
the report of Mr. Mereweath,r, dated May. 1842,
619,523 went out at an expense of 30,0001.; and
in a latter year no less a number than 230,000. No
wonder, then, that the authorities at home began to
think that there was a glut of labour; yet the colonists,
who were the best authorities upon the matter,
entertained an opinion, and became afraid that an in-
sufficiency of labour would be the result of
the determination of the Home Government.
He would not say that the material improvement
of the colonies, or the supply of labour, was by
any means first, or anything like the first;
but still, if consistent with those things, it were
possible to provide a salutary terror, which trans-
portation had always, up to very recently,
bad in this country; and if the reformaion of convicts
could be steadily carried out in those colonies, then, and
as a subordinate object,he thought the documents he had
read were sufficient to show that the expectations of free
emigration supplying the place of convict labour to the
time& of the colony, had proved fallacious; and that the
geeatest distress had been suffered in that colony from
the want of labour. He complained on the t ntset of
his speech of the ill effects which had resulted from
Earl Grey's policy, what had been the consequene.e ? In
the list of paps 1.3 he had laid on the the table, the colo-
nists complained of a breach of faith. He would go further
and show the ;11 consequences of that important pledge
in the very words of their own officer, in the dispatch of
Sir William Dennison. Sir William Dennison acknow-
'ed,ed the rec Apt of Earl Grey's dispatch of the 51h
February, 1847, and then said, " I am informed
it is net the intentention of her Majesty's Government
that transportation to Van Diemen's land shall be
resumed after the expiration of two years." Now what
possible defence could be offered for that conduct?
If he were to regard transportation as a system to be
continued, he must say that of all systems which
had been adopted, that in use in Van Diemen's
Wakefield was the one most capable of improvement.
such was the opinion of the Bishop of Tasmania.
The Noble Lord then read an extract from
the work of Mr. E. Gibbon Wakefield to
show that the founders of Van Diemen's Land had been
greatly benefited by the presence of the convicts, and to
state that as many as twenty labourers had
been employed by one farmer on his property at
one time. Now, his object in bringing this subject
before the House was purely practical, and would not
be bound by what either he himself or others had
said on previous occasions. His suggestion then
was that conditional orders should be sent out
to the Governors of Van Dieman's Land, and of New
South Wales, to try the experiment of the transportation
system on a limited scale; and, then, if that were suc-
cessful, it might easily be extended. He should then
conclude with moving, as he had stated in the beginning
it was his intention to do, for the returns of which he
had given notice. If he refrained from moving any sub-
stantive resolution on the subject, it was because before
doing so he wished to hear what the Hon. Gentleman
might have to say upon the subject. The Noble Lord
concluded by moving for copies of the correspondence
on this subject between the Colonial-offiee and the
Governors of the colonies relative to this subject.
Mr. H. HERBERT said that, in rising to second this
motion, it would be disgraceful if an Irish Member did
not rise at the very first opportunity to speak upon the
subject.