The Sun.
London, England, 1840-04-15 00:00:00

Mr. FOX MAULE said that he had no objection
to th motion of his Hon. Friend, as it was made for
the purpose of enabling him to make a statement to the
House. He so far agreed with his Hon. Friend, that
in the Committee on the Prisons Bill that night he

should hare no objection to adopt the amendment pro-
proposed. Something, however, had fallen from the
Gentleman who spoke last with which he could not
agree ; he had drawn a parallel between the cases of
Mr. Leigh Hunt and that of Lovett and Collins. The

character of the libels were very different, and were
published at very different periods. It must be borne
in mind that the seditious libels uttered by Lovett and
Collins were uttered at a period when the country
was in considerable danger from the proceedings
of a body called the National Convention.
It had been the duty of the Government, for the sake of
preserving the public peace, to institute proceedings
against him, and if a jury of his country were of opinion
that he w is guilty of the charges imputed to him, to let
the law take its course. It was not in the power of the

Secretary of State, or of the Magistrates, to mitigate to
a greater extent than they had done the severity of his
punishment. Vincent's offence was of a graver character.
Any one who had read the Western Vindicator, of which
Vincent was the editor, must be convinced that, until he
did very much reform his opinions, he would not be
other than a very dangerous member of society.—
(Hear, hear, from Mr. Sergeant Talfourd.) Vincent,
however, would receive the same treatment as the other
prisoners confined in the Penitentiary, and he had heard
no complaint made of the treatment they had to un-
dergo. He quite agreed, however, that there ought to
be a power given to the Magistrates and the Secretary
of State to separate those who were guilty of political
offences and seditious libels from the convicted felons.

—(Hear, hear.) Haying made these explanations he
begged to say that be should offer no opposition to the

motion.—( Hear.)
Mr. HUME was very much pleased with the state-
ment that had been made by the Hon. Gentleman.—

( Hear, hear.) Some of Mr. Lovett's papers, especially
his address on education, equalled, if it did not excel,
anything that bad ever issued from the press.—(Hear,
hear.) He begged, however, to observe that there was
an idea among the working classes that these men had
been more severely treated than men in a higher station
of life would have been subjected to, and he hoped they
would very soon be liberated.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. T. DUNCO MBE observed that the statement
of his Hon. Friend the Secretary for the Home Depart-
ment was satisfactory as to the future, but he wished
something more satisfactory had been said as.to the past.
He had admitted that great wrong had been done to
those individuals, but he had not explained why there
should have been that difference batween the treat-
ment of Lovett and Collins and the Rev. Mr.

Stephens.—(Hear, hear.) There was one point,
he thought that ought to be inquired into. Those
two individuals, Lovett and Collins, had been com-
pelled to sleep in the same bed, and that bed only
three feet six inches wide, and another bed in the same
room was occupied by a convicted felon.—(Hear,
hear) He believed there was not a more amiable
man in private life than Lovett. Collins was also a
man of good private character, but he bad been mis-
led.—(Hear, hear.) Lovett's libel after all was merely
publishing that which he had heard stated over and
over again in that House, viz., that the police from
London were the cause of the riot at Birmingham.

That was all that was stated in the resolution pub-

lished by Lovett, and he called upon the people to meet
and resist the introduction of so unconstitutional a
force. A great destruction of property certainly did
ensue in Birmingham, but they were in no way reapon•
sible for it, because they were locked up in War-
wick gaol at the time. Tile treatment which
those individuals had undergone having been so
severe, and contrary to all former precedent,
he thought great credit would attach to the Govern-
ment if they were to discharge them, and took care
that for the future no individuals guilty of seditious
libels suffered a similar treatment. He only wished the
Hon. Member for Wiltshire (Sir F. Burdett) and the
Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Nottingham
(Sir J. Hobhouse) had been in their places. They
were the Lovetts and Collinses of former times.—

(Laughter.) He should have liked to have asked them
how they would have relished the treatment which
those unfortunate men have suffered ?—( Hear, hear.)

Lord SA NDON made a few observations in a very
low tone. We understood him to say that punish-
ments ought not to be greater than would carry public
feeling with them, and that the errors which these men
had been guilty of might sometimes be the errors of
generous characters.—( Hear, hear.)
Sir EARDLEY wiLmoT said, if the prisoners
had undergone too severe a punishment, the fault was
with the law, and not with those who had to administer
it. As to two being in a bed, he begged to observe,
that in consequence of recent circumstances Warwick
IGoal was so full that they did not know what to do

with the prisoners ; and that, be believed, they bad been
obliged to put no less than three in a bed. If the Se-
cretary of State felt any doubt as to the propriety of
continuinc, these men in confinement longer, he (Sir E.
Wilmot) begged to state that, as Visiting Magistrate,
he had made inquiries respecting their conduct, and ho
had been told it was unexceptionable. If, therefore,
the Secretary of State would apply to him, he could
report that the conduct of these persons had been ex-
emplary ; and there would, then, be a fair and consti-
tutional ground for excercising the prerogative of
mercy.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. VILLIERS hoped, as the Hon. Baronet had
expressed so decided an opinion on the good conduct of
the prisoners, that he would not delay taking that course
which it was in his power to adopt, as Visiting Magis-
trate, of sending in a recommendation to the Secretary
of State.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. HAVES observed that the Hon. Baronet, by
the 16th clause of the Prisons' Act, was empowered to
do so in conjunction with other visitors, and as not a
single Gentleman on the other side of the House had
dissented from it, he hoped the Hon. Baronet would
pursue that course. He hoped and trusted the Hon.
Gentleman, the Under Secretary, would communicate
to the Noble Lord at the head of the Home Depart-
ment, the general feeling which had been expressed in
that House that night.--( Hear, hear.)
Mr. W A.RBURTON sincerely hoped that mercy
would be extended to those unfortunate persons.
The motion was then agreed to.
SCOTCH LAW COMMISSIONS.

Mr. HUME, for Mr. Wallace, moved that any re-
port or reports, as well as any evidence which has been
reported by the late Scotch Law Commissioners, re-
specting the various subjects they were directed to in-
qu're into, and which arc not as yet before the public,
be laid on the table of this House.—Ordered.
On the motion of Mr. HUME, for Mr. Gillon, a re-
turn was also ordered of all the Crown Lands and Es-
tates in Scotland, specifying where situated ; distin-
guishing those attached to any Royal palace or for-
tress, to whom leased or granted, and the date of such
lease or grant. Of the total amount of the yearly
rents or profits of the said lands and estates since the
return made in 1833, and, where the said rents or pro-
fits arc payable in grain or any other commodity, stating
'tbe value received in money for such payments. Of
the moneys paid into the Exchequer, or to the Com-
missioners of Woods and Forests, in each year,
in respect of the rents or profits of the said
lands and estates, during the like period.
Of the moneys paid by the Crown, or retained, from the
gross rents or profits of the said lands and estates, and
applit d to defraying the expenses of management, and
paying the salaries of the Rangers, Wardens, Chamber-
lains, or by whatever other names the persons may be
designated who have the charge or superintendence of
the Crown property, with the names of such persons ;
and, where such persons have any other emoluments or
allowances in addition to their salaries, stating the na-
ture and amount of such emoluments or allowances,
during the like period. Of the moneys, if any, expended
on improvements of the said lands and estates, with the
nature, description, and particukr cost of each improve-
ment, and the names of the persons occupying the parts
of the said lands and estates on which improvements
have been made, during the like period. Of the num-
ber of actions at law carried on in the Sheriff or other
Courts in relation to the said lands and estates, the na-
ture and date of commencement of such actions, speci-
fying those still in dependence, those which have been
concluded, and those, if any, which have been abandoned
or allowed to go to sleep, with the expenses incurred in
each action respectively, and the sums of the said ex-
panses, if any, which have been repaid to the Crown,
during the like period.
Mr. E. J. COOPER, in the absence of his colleague
Mr. Maxwell, moved for returns of the number of Ro-
man Catholic Bishops or Priests receiving any grants of
public money in the British Colonies, and the total
amount of those grants; the dates from which those
grants severally commenced, and the authorities under
which they. were granted. Of all grants or loans of
public buildings or public la ds in the _Colonies to
Roman Catholic Bishops or Priests, stating, in each
weret before
case, the extent of the lands so granted or lent, and
thoseth e i r presentbuildin gs or
rlands
application, g
oand
granted the publicor le n use
t
applied, with the dates respectively of such grants or
plied to Parliament
Ifolssu'ehOgrfatnhtes
GRAMMAR SCHOOLS BILL.
poerrlsooannss.w—hoOhrdaevreedap.

Sir E. WILMOT moved the second reading of the
above Bill. He said his Bill was not intended
to interfere with, or in any way alter, the
constitution of the foundations as laid down
by their founders,—his purpose was rather to
carry out the intentions of the founders for
improving the present schemes. The main principle of
the Bill was to allow trustees to alter and amend their
constitutions, at an expense of 251. to 30/. which, under
the present law, would cost 5001.
The Bill was then read a second time.
Mr. ALSTON gave notice, that on to-morrow
fortnight he would move that the Bill be referred to a
S e lTe cht
eCommittee.iteport
of
the Committee on the Admiralty
Court (Judge's Salary) Bill was brought up, as also
the Report of the Committee of' Ways and Means.