The Sun.
London, England, 1841-09-28 00:00:00

EMBER,

144:

he enter into the details of the new Poor-law, though he had
not in the lePst changed his opinion of their importance. With
reference to the instruction:, he would net only say that he
went further than the Secretary of State for the Home De-
partment, fur he believed that before the passing of the Act, in
very we'l-regulated Union throughout England, the separa-
tion of the sexes was carried out and insisted on.--( Hear,
hear.) He rose to express his regret that the House should
be troubled on that occasion with any discussion on the Poor-
law whatever. It appeared to him that such a course on a Bill
which was merely to renew, for a limited time, the Poor-law
Commission, was an ungenerous return for the spirit in which
her Majesty's Government had brought it forward.—( Hear,
bear, and oh, oh.) The Bill was to renew the Commission
until next July, and it thereby held out a promise that, at that
time, the whole of this great subject should be fully considered.
It appeared to him that the manner in which the Ministry had
framed the Bill, gave them an additional claim to the confi-
fidence of the country ; and he believed that if any thing
would shake confidence in them, it would be crude and hasty
legislation on this great measure—( Hear, hear)—and not tak-
ing ample time to consider and reflect on those difficulties and
emharrassments their predecessors had bequeathed to them.—
( Hear, hear, and oh, oh.) Whatever unpopularity might at-
tach to it, he would not hesitate to express the favourable
opinions he entertained with regard to the result and
tendency •of the Pour-law Amendment Act. ( Hear,
hear.) He had always held the same language
on the hustings and elsewhere, and he would say further, with
regard to the Commissioners by whom it was carried out, that
without approving of everything they had done, yet, consi-
dering the circumstances of peculiar difficulty in which they
were placed, they had, on the whole, discharged their duties
most ably, and in a way which evinced the best and fairest in-
tentions.—( Hear, hear.) He would say also that he thought
the last Government were entitled to the greatest praise for the
courage and skill with which they had grappled with this great
question.—(Cheers, and cries of " No," from the Opposition. )
He further believed that, so far as the great body of the coun-
try were concerned, they had carried it oat without reference
to party. He knew unworthy motives were attributed to
them, but they treated it with
.perfect scorn. Everybody
knew that with respect to rates, it was absolutely necessary
that some such measure should be adopted ; and, on the other
hand,he said that no friends of the New Poor-law Act would
say that its primary object related to rates.—( Hear, hear. )
Its primary object was to create habits of industry, moral cha-
racter, and feelings of independence—( Hear, hear )—than
which no more important subjects could engage the atten-
tion of Parliament. It was for this reason he believed the
gentlemen of England had taken it up, and he wished he
could think that it would be in the same spirit discussed by
the House. There was no subject of more importance
affecting the interests of the people, no subject which they
should appri ach with greater freedom from party feelings and
party prejudices. He would appeal to those on both miles of
the house who should approach this subject to bear in mind
its importance, and the duty of discussing it next Session,
with an anxious desire to promote not only the temporal
welfare, but the permanent happiness of the people. For
himself, he had always endeavoured so to approach it, and
he had full confidence that the Ministry would give their best
attention to its details in the recess that would intervene.
He, for one, was most willing to consider any amendment
that should he proposed, or anything that would make it
more acceptable to the peuple ; but he would conclude by
hoping that her Majesty's Ministers, in .their anxiety to make
.it more acceptable, would not depart from its essential princi-
ples, which he believed to be good, and calculated to promote
the welfare of the people.— (Cheers. )
Ir: C. BULLER said he entirely concurred with the Hon.
Gentleman (Mr. Packington) in the sentiments contained in
the latter part of his speech, and he should waive any allu-
sions to the former part, except simply to beg him, when an-
other time he meant to come down and speak so wisely and to
the purpose, he would not allow himself to deviate from his
subject into every possible irritating subject. He trusted that
the manner in which the Hon. Gentleman had addressed him-
self to the question would be followed, and that on a ques-
tion which concerned not a day or a year, not the existence
of any Ministry or party, but the permanent welfare of the
people of England, they should discuss it with the same freedom
from the lowest party feelings and the most miserable party
arguments.—( Hear, hear.) Fle (Mr. C. Buller) wished
merely to state, that he came down that night not very well
able to take part in the discussion, but because he felt it to be
his duty to support her Majesty's Alinisters in the course which
they had taken on the subject.—( Hear, hear.) He had voted
fur the New Poor-law Act when first brought in, and he had
voted for it ever since, and before his constituents and every
where else he had promised it his support, though, as the Hon.
Gentleman had said, he was willing to alter any details which
experience might prove to be harsh and unwise.—(Hear,
hear.) In spite of the obloquy that had been cast upon it, he
believed it f 5 be an honest law—a wise law—the best law ever
made from the best motives in this country, for the moral and
social welfare of the working classes—(Hear, hear)—and
therefore he was anxious to say that he thought the course
taken by the Government was precisely the course which
in duty they were bound to take.—( Hear, hear. )
It seemed to him that the question was one which should not
be discussed under the influence of party feeling or under the
pressure of temporary circumstances.—( Hear, hear.) If
there was distress prevailing at the present moment in the
country, he did not think that a permanent measure of that
kind should be altered under the pressure of a temporary evil.
He was therefore of opinion that the Government was
quite right in bringing in a measure simply continuing the
Poor-law Bill, which put off the discussion of the entire ques-
tion until Parliament should have more time for its considera-
tion. He would therefore put it to his Hon. Friend the
Member for York, who he was sure would give him credit for
sincerity on the occasion, whether he could consistently call
not only upon Members who had generally supported the mea-
sure, but on those who had declared themselves against many
of its provisions, whether he could consistently call on them
to pass an opinion upon the single measure of the separation of
the sects. It appeared to him (Mr. Buller) that any Hon.
Member who would vote for the proposed alteration would
thereby affirm that the law in other respects stood in no need
of amendment. It would be advisable, in his opinion, to con-
sider the whole measure once and for good ; and if they were to
commence at all to legislate on the subject, they had better, in
that case, make up their minds to continue there from the
present moment up to the end of next year. He wished to
say one word before he sat down upon the remarks which had
fallen from the Hon. Member for Yorkshire. He did not
wish to undertake'to defend the lion. Gentleman's consistency
from day to day, but he thought that the lion. Member was
right in pursuing the course he proposed upon that occasion.
He should say, however, that the language of the Hon. Gen-
tleman that evening was much more moderate than that which
he had held in Yorkshire.—(Hear, hear.) He said to the
electors of the West Riding—" We shall have no bastiles, my
friends;. from February, 1842, we shall have no separation of
man and wife;" but the ardour of the Hon. Gentleman had
considerably abated since. It appeared to him that the Hon.
Gentleman was quite right in the tone he assumed on the pre-
sent occasion,' though lie no longer said we shall have no
more of that infernal, abominable, diabolical law, and all
that sort of thing.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) He confessed
that he did not expect that Gentlemen who had held that
language would vote for continuing for a moment the power
of " the Th. ea Devil Kings" whose sway extended not merely
to their own infernal regions, but to the upper earth we live
in. He ( Mr. Buller) never wished to say anything offensive ;
but it really seemed to him there had been a good deal of
howling resorted to ort the subject.—(Laughter.) It appeared
to hint that a good deal of very vague nonsense had been
talked—that a very great deal of dishonest stuff had been
talked; and he did not think that Hon. Gentlemen had a
right to mislead people by false hopes, and to agitate them by
assertions which were never meant to be carried into effect.—
(Hear, hear.) He certainly wished to put Hon. Gentlemen
opposite to the test—he wished them to state whether or not
they meant to continue a law which had been supported by
large majorities} on both sides of the House, or whether they
would repeal it tvlien they took it into their consideration.
Colonel WOOD said, that when the time arrived he would
be ready fairly to consider the entire question. He did not
think the proposition, the inotion of his Right Hon. Friend
opposite, was so unreasonable as had been represented. al-
though he did not wish it should be pressed upon that occasion.
When the Poor-law Bill had first bet:;^ passed, he certainly had
no notion that it would have been inills:riceinatelY applied to
all parts of the kingdom. It had been at;:eitted that great
abuses existed in the administration of the ;Ad law in the
Southern Counties, but he believed those *biases were unknown
in the North of England. There was no payment of wages
out of the Poor-rate in the North ; there was no payment of
cottage rent from the same source. He hoped that his Hon.
Friend would not press his proposition, although he con-
fessed he approved of its principle.—( Hear, hear, hear.)
In the union to which he (Colonel Wood) belonged, they
had resolved upon allowing old men and women to live
comfortably together—( A laugh)—in spite of the instructions
they had received from the Commissioners. He thought work-
heuses ought to be places of comfortable retirement for the
aged, th it they ought to contain schools for the children, and
that the able-bodied who took refuge in them ahould not be quite
so comfortable as the aged. He hoped the Hon. Member for
York would not press his instruction, but that the House
would go fairly into the discussion after Christmas.
Captain PECHELL hop-d the Hon'. Member for Droit-
wich would not consider him as offering a factious opposition.
If he asked the Hon. Baronet, the member for Dorchester, to
enter into some explanation as to the course intended to be,
pursued with regard to the Gilbert Unions. He wished for
that information in order to satisfy a highly respectable class of
persons who had more than once entrusted him with petitions
on, the subject. He wished to know whether it was intended
to protect towns possessing Local Acts, and parishes incor-
porated into unions, under Gilbert's act, from the operation of
the Dill. If no explanation were Riven, he should certainly
vote for the instruction moved by the Honourable Member for
York.

Mr. H. HINDE had hitherto been opposed to the principle
of the Poor-law Amendn.ent Act, and still continued opposed
to it, but he could not support the motion of the Hon. Mem-
ber for York. The Bill was to continue the Commission for
six months only, and he therefore did not think the present
time a proper one for offering opposition. He had last Session
moved various amendments, and he would propose them again
limit Session when the law should be under discussion. He
was inelluted to agree with the Hon. Member for Bath that it
would be better to repose the power now vested in the Com-
missioners in the Meeretary of State, but he thought
that neither of them ought to possess such power, which
was, in fact, the power of making laws. He opposed the
amendment, because in all cases in which the separation was
ithisted an a stigma would be attached to the parties, and no
mart light to have such a stigma cast upon him without hav-
ing been confict4M of some offence. It would also be neces-
sary to relax the rules relating to out-door relief, and in fact
to revise the whole machinery of the Poor-law Amendment.
Act. For these reasons he should vote against the amend-
Mont; not because he dissented from the principle of it, but be-
cause he believed it ill-timed.
Sir IL IiGEETWOOD rose for the purpose of drawing the
nttefition of the Right Hon. Baronet to certain communica-
tions tfbieli he (Sir H. Fleetwood) had received from Preston.
The first letter accompanied a petition, which had been pre-
sented by his Honourable Colleague (Sir George Strick-
land), and which was signed by 1,260 persons, every one
of whom was out of work. But he received another letter
that day, in whick the people of Preston expressed their fears
that permanent out-door relief would be withheld during the
coming winter. It was the wish of the House to receive in-
formation from the Boa ds of Guardians ; and as those Boards
were constituted of persons who had no pecuniary interest in
the inimediate administration of the law, he thought it would
be right that those individuals should be entrusted with its
execution, and that it ought to be taken away from the uncon-
stitutional authority of the Commissioners.—(Hear. ) What
would be the consequence if such a system was adopted with
regard to the constabulary e Why, it would be tantamount to
a suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act.—( Hear.) He trusted
they would come to the consideration of the question when it
was brought before them, with their minds free from party
feeling.--( Hear. )
Mr. GRINISDITCH, though opposed to the new Poor-
law, would vote for the present Bill, as it was merely tempo-
rary. He would not desire i,ts continuance for any length of
time, but if carried out at all, it ought to be carried out with-
out. the Central Board.—( Hear, hear.) As long as that ex-
isted there never would he quiet or harmony in the country.—
(Hear, hear.) The Member for Sheffield was mistaken in
supposing the respectable portion of the community was favour-
able to the system of centralisation. He hoped it . aeould not
be treated as a party question.—( Hear, hear.) Mskipresent
law was doing injury to the social systern.dry*...up_ the
sources of private charity—doing
ramtaitchief tar the House.
was aware of.—(Hear, hear.) lie trusted thee-Right Hun.
Baronet would not rely on 'any Bill emanating from Somereet

Horiie. If inquiry was necessary, he hoped it would be made
by those who had no interest but the benefit of the community
at heart, and not by those who had a direct personal interest.
There were 26 manufacturing Unions, which comp. ised a po-
pulation of 100,000, and 3,000 paupers. Was it possible that
the test should be applied in such cases ? In such Unions there
would be continual cases of sudden deprivation, and it was im-
possible to apply the test. He trusted the Right Hon. Baronet
would take these things into consideration, with a view to re-
moving the evils so generally complained of.
Mr. WIGNEY said he was one of those candidates who had
suffered from the remarks of Hon. Members opposite on the
hustings on this subject.—( Hear, hear.) If Hon. Members
brought forward such subjects to carry their elections, they
had no right to complain when the discussion was introduced in
that House. If the Hon. Member for York divided the House,
he would yote with him, but he would certainly propose a post-
ponement.
Lord SANDON said, as one of those who had been
charged with making an improper use of this question, he
felt bound to vindicate his character. He could net see
why Whigs or Radicals were to be allowed to express
their opinions, whilst Conservatives were denied that privi-
lege. The Conservatives had an equal right with the
Whigs to express their sentiments on the Poor-law, and were
not therefore to be charged with tampering with the people
in order to effect their own purpose. The charge came
with a bad grace from those who had appealed to the pas-
sions of the people, by speaking of the Conservatives as ad-
vocates for a little loaf, and professing► themselves to supply
the poor man with a big one.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
Ile thought time should be allowed to the Government,
to consider what alterations they would make in the measure;
and he was sure Hon. Gentlemen on that side of the House
would be found honestly to maietain the opinions which they
had stated.—( Hear, hear.) With these opinions he would
oppose the motion of the Hon. Member for York.
Mr. C. WOOD regretted the acrimony that had been in-
troduced into the discussion by the Noble Lord who had just
sat down. He had hoped that the question would have been
discussed with temper, and he objected to the opposition of the
Poor-laws being made an engine of political warfare, which
had been the case during the late elections. He believed that
the New Poor-law Bill had done great good, and that its pro-
vi,ions had in most places been carried into effect with great
humanity. In Halifax the poor were far better trea•ea un-
der the New than under the Old Law. He thought that the
Government had done right in renewing the Bill for another
year, for the purpose of giving an opportunity of having the
whole measure discussed in the next Session.

....
Mr. HARDY denied that the question of the Poor-laws had
been made the subject of political discussion on his part at the
late election. It had been forced upon him. He was most
anxious, if the Poor-!aw was deferred, that a perfect un-
derstanding should be come to as to out-door relief.
There was not so much money spent on the pose now, when
wheat was so high, as when it was only from 395. to 445. He
was, therefore, afraid the poor were stinted in their food. He
hoped, therefore, some understanding would be come to, so
that out-door relief should not be prohibited, but might be
given to those who were unable to obtain work during the
winter. _ _ .

Mr. W A KLEY had been often referred to, and would not
detain the House long. He could assure the Hon. Member
for Chester that he had no other duty in that House than to
do his duty to his constituents and the pubic. He hail no
other duty or motive there. He trusted the Hon. Member had
no other. As to the New Poor-law, he trusted the present
Government would not pledge itself to the principle of
the law which many had attempted to get them to
do. It was a most important question, and the House
ought to be allowe.l to come to the full discussion of the mea-
sure without having the whole weight of the Government de-
terminedlc set against those who were desirous of having the
law ameliorated. He trusted the Hon. Members who had
in,tions on the paper, as well as the mover of the instruction,
would not press them to a division—(Laughter)—for, upon
reflection, they would find that their own intentions would be
frustrated by forcing a majority to vote against them. Ile
would warn the Right Hon. Baronet, that if he pledged himself
to the principles of the New Poor law Bill, it would be the last
time he would ever command a majority in that House.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw,
For the amendment
Against it
Majority —lsl
On our return to the gallery we found
Sir JAMES GRAHAM on his legs, proposing the House
to go into Committee on the Bill, this day (Tuesday) at Five
o'Clock.

The Expiring Laws Bill went through a Committee—to be
reported this day.
Adjourned at One o'Clock.

CORN-LAWS AND COMMERCIAL

REFORM.

MEETING OF THE INHABITANTS OF THE WARD
OF FARRINGDON WITHOUT.

A meeting of the inhabit ants of the Ward of Farri ngdon Without
was held yesterday in the New Court of the Old Bailey, having
been called by requisition to Sir James Duke, the Alderman
for the Ward, for the purpose of petitioning the Queen not to
prorogue Parliament until it had taken into its consideration
the Corn-laws and the present distressed state of the people.
The meeting was called at eleven o'clock for twelve, and
shortly after the latter hour Sir James Duke, and several of
the Common Council, entered the Court.

Sir JAMES DUKE having taken his seat as Chairman, rose
and said, that in consequence of a requisition which had been
addressed to him as Alderman of the Ward, he had called a
meeting of the inhabitants on this subject, so vital to their ins
terests.—(Cheers. ) The requisition was numerously and re-
spectably signed, and it gave him great pleasure in complying
with it. It was not necessary for him to say anything further,
but as there might be a difference of opinion on the subject be-
fore them, he hoped that every man who wished to express his
sentiments upon it would be allowed a patient hearing.—( Hear,
hear.) He would call on the Clerk to read the requisition.
It was not necessary to go over the names of the requisition-
ists, amounting to upwards of 200 of the most respectable of
the inhabitants of the Ward.—(Cheers. )
The CLeux then read the requisition, and
Mr. POIITIFEX rose and said, that the subject which had
called them together—a subject involving, as it did, the pro-
, sperity of them all, was of such great importance, that he
heartily wished that some other gentleman had been deputed
to propose the resolution which he then begged leave to sub-
mit. But, considering the situation he held in the world—
considering that he was a manufacturer—he should not have
considered it consistent with his duty if he had refused to come
forward on that occasion—( Hear, hear)—and he felt that the
subject was of great importance to the country at large. In
discussing that question he should avoid, as much as possible,
any allusion to party politics.--( Hear, hear.) The subject
was one infinitely more connected, with the interests of the
country than party.—( Hear, hear.) He therefore wished
that the discussion should be carried on without reference to
parties who opposed them, inasmuch as other arguments
were involved. He thought they would be more likely to ad-
vance their object, and more likely to impress their feelings
and opinions on the Ministry, if they refrained, as much as
'possible, from anything like party politics.—( Hear, hear. )
It was undoubtedly of great political importance, involving
the prosperity of the country, and of individuals. There had
been two objections brought forward against discussing the
question. One he did not think it necessary to answer by
any argument ; that was, that the present Ministry, or rather
that the number of individuals who had been returned to Par-
liament on that question—a question on which the country
had been appealed to—had carried a majority against
a revision of the Corn-laws. On this there was no necessity
for argument. But there was another objection on which he
begged leave to make a few observations, as he thought that
objection had held back one or two individuals in that cause;
it was, that they should give time to Sir Robert Peel
to concoct measures which he will feel necess try to bring for-
ward to the public on that very subject—he meant the revision
of the Corn-laws. When they considered that Sir Robert
Peel's colleagues in the Ministry had lately stated that the
Ministry were agreed in one opinion, and which opinion had
been expressed in the speeches of the Duke of Buckingham,
Sir James Graham, Lord Stanley, and others, that there was
alteration needed in the Corn-laws,jhe thought there was norea-
son why they should give the Premier longer time to prepare
those measures which the state and welfare of the country re-
quired. If they believed that the Premier had a desire to
bring forward such measures as would produce some relief for
the labouring classes of the country, the object of their meeting
there would greatly facilitate those measures. It was by public
meetings throughout the country, and temperate expression of
opinion—it was by their showing that not only were they aware
„f ft, distress they felt, but that they knew the cause from
which that distress arose, and are determined to put an end
to that cause.—it was only by such a display of public senti-
ment that Sir Its:l)ert Peel could be urged to a consideration of
this subject. R yeas by these means that any great
measure has been car.lied ; it was by these means that they
obtained redress. Had to: Catholics merely joined in .a
quiet declaration of their civil rights, they would have re-
mained to that day as they were before their emancipation.
It was only by their combination that they made even the
Duke of Wellington, opposed as he was-te Catholic Emanci-
pation, grant them that'which he could no lo.ner withhold.—
(Cheers.) It had been. argued, and argued ?gain, that an
alteration of these commercial measures would nos be bene-
ficial to the poor. On that question alone he would be convent
to
rest the wisdom or evil, the justice or injustice, of the Co.-o 7
laws. It was said, if they reduced the price of corn they
would reduce the price of wages. This was not a necessary I
consequence, considering that the price of labour did not de-
pend on the price of corn, but on the demand for that labsur.—
(Cheers.) But even if it were so—if the ultimate removal of
these laws were to produce a money reduction there would be a
relative difference in his expenditure. He (Mr. Pontifex)
thought that was clearly shown by the very difference in living
between this country and the Continent. A man could live on
a very much less income abroad than he could in England.
And from whence did this arise ? Solely from the high price
of the necessaries of life, every one of which was increased by
the high price of corn. The supporters of the Corn-laws meet
the question by saying that the poor man would be no better
off if the Corn-laws were repealed; but he thought that it had
been proved that the condition of the poor man would be much
better by the Corn-laws being repealed. If they looked at the
working population of this country, it would appear that they
were distressed in efiveerayr,mbeaanr7 cawlcbuelantetclbetyoreraadisetbteheaieredoeuerrtss
ethstat7wmePreathpilaecse—d before Parliament, when they read the state-
ments of the distress; existing in the manufacturing districts as
well as the agricultural, did they not feel that that was a state
of things which they ought not to be labouring under, to which
some alteration ought not to be applied ?—(Cheers. ) A gen-
tleman whom he knew, who lately went through some of the
manufacturing districts in Scotland, and who, by the introduc-
tion of a friend, went into some of the largest manufactories
there, assured him (Mr. Pontifex) that it was painful beyond
description to witness the misery and want of the labouring
classes its Glasgow. In one manufactory, where they employed
more than 100 people, even the youths, instead of wearing a
smile on their countenance, were depressed by the deteriora-
tion of their labour, and those who were twenty years of age
appeared more like men of forty or fifty.—( Hear, hear.)
This gentlemen saw something going intothe manufactory which
appeared to be the dinner of one of the labourers, and he in-
quired what it was, and on examination he found it was food
almost as bad as that of pigs—it was a kind of porridge, but
of so coarse a kind as scr.rcely to be fit for swine. Now, it had
been assumed that the agricultural population was much
better off than the manufacturing population, and he wouldl
state his own personal observations upon it. lie was himseg.f,
in a village not many miles from the metropoli,, whereb.
he
was
talking to a medical mail, . who was describing to
misery and distress existing in the working classease.d
the leptd-
that if the country should be brought into a w_
times, we should no longer have a heartieracesemo
d e doubts as to
santry were required to defend us as they hadafrdmoneeei:.efobiemree-r
tofore had. He (Mr. l'ontifex) expre call
the extent
fierxstte nitboofurtihnigs dmiseterestsh,eayndeehmise
him,n said he wanted
friend called to an apparently healthy meow. hdeidwoseu.ld
friend
ti , an dsa hi de
Sir, you know how I
him how helived. The man answerre
to speak to him, and the man catnts;l,ll...y,
"Yes," answered
and he asked
live," as being a medical
is; ' ind he answered, " Why, Sir,
what sort of living yoursyou have meat ?,,
his friend, " eknow ;
We have
we live on bread chiefly.' "
but innint to convince this gentleman
Do ytwicea week." His friend
nd he seemed in a state of
laid hold hold of the natkn'i legn. •
up d withered. If the agricultural la-
a bit of bacon sometimes,
ti" was. ihr" distressed state, the manufacturing popula-
this_ „once or
bourer was n
tion must_ be WI off
.indeed--bad indeed mast be their
state... 4 geara. bear.)
.This tne state of Kent, in an.
agric
ulturej populgObn; g village hot thirty miles from Lou-
,

MORNING NUN_

don. Now this state of things must require; their roost serious
consi, eration. Sir Robert Peel said, in Jtlne last, that it was
a state of things as imperative, that no cony.kienee of Mem-
bers ought to present Ministers from calling the Parliament
together ; yet no sooner did Sir Robert Pee come into power
than he at once said he should delay this etinsideration'for
months, and propose no remedy to the cotittr,(ftirillis
distrr ss.—( Continued cheers.) But not only was t if 'mate .of
thine: bad, but it was a state that every philanthropist must
wish o see altered. For some years past they had been striv-
ing to give education to the labouring classes, but he would
ask them could that class devote their time to thinking
of scything else but supplying their physical wants ?
Ought they not only to give them the comforts of life, but
some little time to devote to their education ? He was aware
that it had beenstated that taxation was an evil to the coun-
try, acid therefore the Corn-laws were an evil that could not
be avoided ; but he believed that those who had to pay this
taxation would not be satisfied with this argument. The ammint
ot the bread-tax was forty millions of money. Now the taxa-
tion of the country itself was sufficiently onerous. but if this
tax was to be added to it—greater than any one of them, and
almost, greater than all put together—it became insupportable.
It had been said that the manufacturers of this country could
not expect to compete with the manufacturers of the Conti-
nent, who had not such an amount of taxes to pay. If it was
so ditlicult to bear up against the taxation. how much more diffi-
cult must it he when that manufacturer had, in addition to the
taxation of the country. another tax to pay, amounting to 44
millions, and that for the sole purpose of benefiting a class?—
(Chet rs.)—Surely this could not be just ?—( Hear, hear.)
It was a state under which the manufac urea of thel country
were ,inking.—( Hear, hear.) Where could land be better
cultivated, or pay better, than where the populasion was greater
than the produce of the land could supply?— ( Hear,
hear.) That was the place, of all others, where it. must
flourish, because it would be most wantej, and where it
would obtain the highest prices. Therefore, instead of sup-
posine that because the trade in corn was left open, the agri-
cubit fists must. go to decay—it was true that it might, to a
rertaie extent, reduce the rent on land, but as regarded the
farmer be would be decidedly better off—he would have no
violent changes they saw tnen. Th s fluctuation in the corn-
trade oas only calculated to ruin the poor farmer. He must pay
his rent ; therefore that law was merely to make the rich
richer, and the poor man poorer. On referring to a statistical
statement, he found that in 1811 there were 689,940 families
empleved in agriculture, and in 1831, after twenty yesrs, there
were ¶t61,144, thus giving en increase of 61,000 families em-
ployed in agriculture. Tho number employed in trade in 1811
was 11,290,01)0, and in 1831 there were 14,820,000. showing
an increase in the number suf families employed in trade of
upwards of 4,000,000. Now, if this was the fact, it was quite
clear that if the agriculturists had been benefited it had been
by the increased number of the manufacturing families,
and the demand exceeding the pruduce. But it was
sated in opposition to this that the trading commnnity
were ihemse.ves dependent on the agricultural community,
but he always understood, and it was a very good argument
ag,airet this, that the internal- prosperity of the country de-
pend, ti on the external commerce.—( Hear, hear.) What
was the effect of the law as it now stood ? He thought no
man c f business3would, considering the situation of affairs at
that moment, say that the corn they were receiving could be
paid f r in any other way than with gold, and payment in gold
must disorder the whole country—( Hear, hear)—and cause
ruin ta thousands, who would not know where that ruin came
from, but only know that they cannot sell the produce of their
manufsettires. It was, therefore, doubly incumbent on them
to have an alteration. Two or three years ago this state of
things almost produced bankruptcy in the Bank of England,
and it would still produce it if they were continued.--( Hear,
hear.) If the proposition of Lord John Russell had been
adopted, the country would have been benefited to the amount
of 600,000L—(Great cheering.) In the Quarterly Review lie
was surprised to find an argument so feeble for 30 power-
fully written a journal, which was, that the country
was riots feeling the benefit of the Corn-laws, as it
was receiving corn at one shilling duty.; but did the
peopl! pay one farthing less for corn?—(Great cheer-
ing. )-1 he corn dealers would get the market price for
their corn, and the country therefore paid a high price without
the revenue deriving any benefit whatever from it.—(Cheers. )
But independently of the loss to the revenue, it was quite
clear that thin law compelled the purchaser of corn to go to the
market—not the cheapest, but the nearest. They were enabled
to con pete with countries where corn was cheap, because they
were afraid, that when they arrived with corn here, the ports
would be shut.—(Cheers.) Lord Stanley's argument was,
that the country had done well under that law. Why, this
argument had been used en all occasions when they wanted
bad laws to be respected. It was used at the time the Reform
Bill was in agitation, and it put him in mind of a speech de-
livered by th Rev. Sidney Smith at that time. It was a very
humorous one, but it so agreed with the present occasion
that lei would read an extract :—" There happens to live near
my parsonage a labouring man, of very superior character and
understanding to his fellow-labourers, and who has made such
good use of that superiority, that he has saved what is (for his
station in life), a very considerable sum of money, and if his
existence is extended to the common period, he will
die rich. It happens, however, that he is (and long
has been troubled with violent stomachic pains for which he
has hit herto obtained no relief, and which really are the bane
and tosment of his life. Now, if my excellent labourer was to
send for a physician, and to consult him respecting his malady,
would it not be very singular language if our noetor were to
say to him, "My good friend, you surely will rot be so rash as to
attempt to get rid of these pains in your stomach. Have you not
grown rich with these pains in your stomach ? Have you
not risen under them from poverty to prosperity ? Has not
your situation since you were first attacked been improving
every year? You surely will not be so foolish and so indis-
creet as to part with the pains in your stomach?"—( Shouts of
laughter.) ' Why, what would be the answer of the rustic to
this nonsensical monition ? " Monster of Rhubarb," he would
say, I am not rich in consequence of the pains in my stomach,
but •n spite of the pains in my stomach—
(Cheers and much laughter)—and I should have been ten
times icher and fifty times happier if I had never had any
pains in my stomach at all."—(Much cheering and great
laughter.)—'Phis was something like Dr. Peel.—(Cheers and
laughter.—So these Corn-laws were, then, pains in the
stomas t. and they would have been a much richer and greater
people if they had never had them at all.—( Loud cheers. )
These pains in the stomach were increasing—(Cheers)—anit
would increase unless an alteration was made.—(Cheeis. )
The years Lord Stanley ref reed to were all years ashen corn
was cheap, and when the Corn-laws did not operate. They
did not complain of the 'Corn-laws when corn was cheap, but
what they complained ot was the operation of the Corn-laws
when corn was dear, and the people wanted to be fed.—
( Cheer.. ) His (Lord Stanley's) argument only applied when
corn n J.; cheap. The result of these Corn-laws now was that the
continental manufacturers were not only rivalling them but
were beating them--( Hear)—in their own markets.---( Hear.)
Lord Stanley made use of another argument, in which he said
that w were not to look to the supply from abroad, but from
the colonies ; and so we ought to look to the colonies for the
support of our manufactures ; but such was the lowness of
prices on the Continent that they were leaving us for them,
and in fact the Continent supplied many goods to our merchants
who sent them out instead of their own. Not only was this the
case in the West Indies, but in the East Indies also. There
was certainly a small differential duty on foreign goods in the co-
lonies and home manufacture, but the difference was not enough
to prevent foreign manufactures being taken instead of our
own.—(Hear, hear.) 'phis state of things could not be re-
medied under the present system but by high duties, and if
they taxed the colonies would they feel disposed to put up
with it with America before their eyes. America was an
examp e, and he did think this would be resorted to. It was
said tl.cy were independent of foreign nations, but they were
not. there was a million and a quarter of corn now come in
from the Continent, and they were not, nor could they be in-
dependent of foreign nations.—( Hear, hear.) This was a
strong argument why they should alter that law.—( Cheers.)
What did Mr. M'Gregor say, the Secretary at the Foreign-
office? He said that Germany had to manufacture in its own
defence. He would make one observation mare, as to why
this law should be repealed—why some consideration should be
given to thel working classes, the poor_of this country, fur it
was those upon whom this Corn-law pressed—it was epos.* these the
operation of the law was felt, which increased the price of pro-
visions to the principal consumers. To the rich man it was
' comparatively unimportant, but to the labouring man it was the
staff of life—(Cheers)—those from whom the revenue was
derived—they who consumed the greatest quantity of tobacco,
tea, susar, coffee, and all the other necessaries of life. 'this
ought. to be a strong argument why consideration should be
given to this question. These were his reasons why he had
risen to propose the resolution, in reading which he shouid
conclude:—

‘• Resolved, That this meeting has viewed with unfeigned
loyalty, admiration, and gratitude, her Majesty's ever-anxious
desire to promote the welfare and happinese of every portion of
her Alajesty's faithful subjects."—((seat cheering.)
A G ENTLEM AN, whose name vie did not hear, seconded the
•esolution without any remark.

The resolution was then put to the meeting, and carried
unanimously, amidst great cheering.
Mr. ‘Voon, in rising to propose the next resolution, said
there was very little for him to do but to read the pe-
tition alluded to in the resolution, after the eery eloquent
address of Mr. Pontifex. There was something notwithstanding
that lie could not help adverting to, and to which
Mr. Pontifex had partly alluded to, but not fully.
Lord Stanley admitted that rents were increased
by this law, and that the people contributed towards that tent
'New, in order to consider this, they must go to the natural
poset,:r of produeing corn, and what the state of it is to other
country, sat the present time. The price of the 41b. loaf in
Paris eas bid., and the same 41h. loaf in England was 1;1
They asked themselves why was this striking_ difference—lLY
is this, when the expense of transfer is only an addition of Itri;
on the quarter of flour, why should we be Paying nearly
double ? The aniwer was clear, they had an artifittal-Price
this country. Let them take t e expense of a
at Dipitzic, which cost 345. He did not "knosi t!'_ei:m „
price,. but the average was 345., the, cost 'of iinpnortta"
their glo-
10s., giving them 445. a quarter. 'At that mor27.i
7 at a'duty of
rims sliding scale gave the last week's price at
Of the sliding
2s. Bd. Let them mind the delightful it
nar reed and they
scale. This week 735. was produced at it duty
napo, or could
had thrown into the market all that had been
di:on the Thames to
be got into port. The tug-boats were sent
tad
uty, and all that
quarter ofiesent
brine up the corn vessels, in order to pay ^
dut ,
could possibly be brought up was 0 mat a nominal y
When the
quarter of corn was said to have come,_: managed.
of Is. Let them mark hew this„. a'
getting up to 71s. it
'price was 70s. the duty was 103.. at?e„l. 'they get the corn in
a million and a
illation of the corn-dealers. If
at Is. duty. This was a Com
ba
k to the Session! of 1838 and
them go c us to September in
they doubted this, let
weeks prey io
tb,trone-d,
1840. and to three or four
was 63. Bd. ; and having amvied
during the whale
three times the amount
each year, and .
the market w"
corn sail to be sold in of September the quantity of
thes. to 745. till they obtained the IF.
rai-ed the price from
surd,.
"Now we have it in our own hands."
duty, and then they
thn by decrees bring the price down to
7 market. And by this means they
They, lOs. Bd. decrees
They then go on to 695., theit
139. ed., and then they say, " Now we are safe.."
705.,
.and the duty t
.....(actucalhl3:erbsr.o)ugh: into
the dui}' is k there is a little danger, they go down an-
But if they think the average for the last ten years has hien
other Is- N°"''
Lord John Russell's duty of Rs. it would
d at
575, an
have liven 54a. According to Curtis, in the Western
r America corn was grown at 27s , and could
bSetadteefticeor.ed'in Liverpool at 475. duty paid. The inhabitants
of these States supplied the people of the Southern Sates with
~
corn, and the people of the Southern States supplied us with
cot , The people of the Western State said, "If you will
iakt:niitir corn, we will take your manufactures, and leave the
Southern State, hut we cannot pay you with an} thing cl,e but
corn. According to Lord John Russell's duty the revenue
would have been benefited 600,0001., instead of the paltry
sum given by the sliding scale. Tiii, sum had gone into the
pocket . f the parson in tie shape of tithe, the landholder, and
the gambler on the Corn Exchange. —( Cheers.) He believed
that Peel would take measures to redress the people if he could
persuad . his colleagues, and he only wanted time to try it on
them.—(A laugh.) Let them nut despair. The Duke of
Buckingham was a generous man —(Laughter.) He would
show them that he was a very gerrsrous man. In the village
of Buili there once lived a man who was compelled by poverty
to go to Manchester; but after remaining there for four or
five years, to consequence of the stagnation of trade, and being
unable to live on the small pittance of 3d. or 4d. a-day, this
man came back to Brill, for he was a parishioner, and he ap.
plied to the parish. They were all to go into the house, sense
of the family being grown up. But the Duke of Buckingham
thought this would not dp, and he consented to head a sub-
seripttou to raise 101. or 15/., in order that this man and .fa-
I may might go back to Manchester and try spin to get es-