The Sun.
London, England, 1847-05-01 00:00:00

102)1J19141),„.../ATVRDAY s MORNING, MAY 1,1

VIC

_,

' ( precedent for others to folldw. He believed that the t railway companies in Ireland would twoulyauced out ef
been more .correct course would have td go into Cora• l the general fund raised by loan for the general relief of
' i mittee, when it would have been his duty to make a ' the distress of Ireland: He thought if such a course
i statement as soon as the Speaker left the chair with re- were to be adopted great inconvenience would result.
ference to this grant. He hoped that the There was nothing that the House should guard more
House would agree to go at once into Corn- against than an augmentation of the charges upon the
' mittee,—(Hear, hear)—and then. in accordance with Consolidated Fund, because the effect of those charges
the forms which had been established in that House, would be necessarily to lower the Winces in the Ex-
he should avail himself of that opportunity of making chequer, and increase in the same proportion the amount
such a statement as the Hon. and Learned Gentleman of the quarterly deficiency bills ; and the Bank having to
would be well able to answer. At present he declined meet this increased demand upon it, would be unable to
sayie_anything farther until the House bad resolved afford that assistance which was needed for the interests
itself into Committee. of the general trade and commerce of the country.—
The gallery was then cleared for
.ac4visien, when the (Hear, hear.) There was also another point of diffi-
House divided, and there appeared. ' culty in making grants to these railways, which was,
For the amendment - ' 14 that having afforded assistance to these companies, how
Against it - 203 could the Government refuse similar assistance to others.
Majority —lB9 These companies, it appeared, required to borrow
The amendment was consequently negatived. 1,000,0001. of money, they would have to go into the
On our re-adinission to the gallery, we found marker, and perhaps borrow it at the rate of 8 per cent.,
Mr. HUME speaking, who said that the Hon. Gen- but the Government slipped in said h
tleman had stated that, in his opinion, it was wise to them half of that sum at sthe Y were
• his per cent.; company
make this grant; in (Mr. Hume'e) opinion, it was thus entitled to borrow its million at an average of 6i
not; but the proper time to make this amendment would per cent., while a rival
per cent. Besides, this compan- having
have been when the motion was put from the Chair for of tee Government, would be 'compelled to pay the full
c,tnpariy, anntd,tiiaviltigetyhew:siuslisdtalenne:
going into Committee. But it should be recollected, 8
teat those who voted for going into Committee voted for obtaining half of their money at 5 per cent., could affhrd
giving money for making railroads.—(Cries of N
" —O, to pay more than its rival company for the remaining
no.") Yes, but he asserted that it was, for the House half, which they might require; they would thereby
had decided upon going into Committee, and that Corn- obtain an undue and unfair advents e ever their com-
mittee was for the purpose of giving money to rail - petitors. It appeared to him thatggreat caution and
roads—(Repeated cries of " No, no")--and those who succeeded in
prudence were necessary in measures of this kind, and
voted for going into Committee who did not vote for unless great determination be shown by the Govern.
giving money to railroads, would have placed them- ['Dent in refusingapplicants • •advances, the
for similar
selves in a state of stultification.—(Derisive cheers.) most serious evils would be certain to be the cense-
The House then went into Committee. quern*. He thought that althou h the pani
c was over-
The
that CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said rated, and although it
was' true the country was in
that in bringing this matter before the House before a prosperous condition,ethe saw
enough to induce
they went further in the debate, he thought it would be him to call upon the Government to proceed with pru-
necessary to make a statement of what the case actually I dence in future. The country was in a state, for which
was. It was true that he had made that statement the no antecedent periodshowed parallel. One of the
a
other night, but it was at its late an hour that it might • press-
notreatest calamities that ever happened. was now
i possibly have been quite understood. There were uponthe ' this country,
countrr, and not only on
two distinct subjects on this question, yet though dis- ingbut other '
every nation in
which added to Europe. Added to this,
there was another matter
duct of such a nature as to be connected with eachtheir difficul-
other. The real question before the Committee was, as tiesandextraordinary caution.
.., called upon them for •
to whether the House sir .uld grant specified sums to the There was the railway system, which greatly affected
Commissioners of Public Works to be expended in the the capital of the count and locked it up in that in-
formation of railroads in Ireland. At an early hour the vestment which for a considerable period made no re-
other morning he had an opportunity of making a state- turn. There could he no doubt that the capital of last
ment on this subject, not at any great length it was year's railway had not yet affected the floating capital
true, but sufficient to remove the apprehensions under of the country so much as would be felt in future. The
1 which several Hon. Gentlemen laboured, with respect to scarcity of food, also increased the necessity of import,
the conduct and proceedings of Government. Ho be- and greatly aggravated the difficulties under which the
lieved the statement he mtrie was correct, as far as it country was labouring. There- was, besides, the defi-
related to the currency. He stated then, and be must ciency of the cotton crop, which should be added to
state now, that the present depression was in no degree the pressure from other sources on the energies of the
"wing to the operation of the Banking Act; but it arose country. It was, therefore, upon all these considerations,
from other causes. Hon. Gentlemen must have observed that he was induced to call upon the Government to
from the public papers, that the state of the Bank had proceed with great caution in dealing with the monetary
improved during the last week. On the 24th of April. affairs of the country. Already a large amount of
the balance sheet of the Bank presented a considerable money had been advanced to Ireland, aid if he might
improvement over that of the 17th. It showed that the calculate on the future, the money which had been ad-
liabilities were diminished, while the means of meeting winced would be insnfficient to meet the exigencies of
the liabilities had increased. They had, therefore, reason the case. The expenses of the Country were increased. ,
to be more satisfied of the groundlessness of the fears to In January last, there was a balance in the Exchequer
which he had alluded there three days ago. He had of nine millions; and now, in April, there were but live;
been in communication with many of those parties who and if this balance was to go on decreasing it would be
were most capable of furnishing accurate information necessary for the Government to draw upon the Bank,
on the subjects One of them estimated that there were and so disable it from applying its capital to the accom.
more bank notes and bills in circulation than could he modation of thecommerce and trade of the country.
country. He
easily met in specie ; but, during tee last fortnight, wished to explain that in pointing out these dangers his
the money market had improved. He would not allude object was not to embarass the Government, but to in-
to the increased price of stocks, as this might have been eulcate the necessity of timely prudence and the utmost
caused by circumstances, which could not have been caution,—(Hear, hear.)
foreseen—that was a circumstance on which no one could Mr. F. FRENCH saw no reason why money should
have calculated, and, therefore, he did not, take it into ac- not be given to other railways, as well as the three which
count. Exchanges were improving, and the last news from had been selected, provided sufficient security was given
Atnerca was of an important character. He thought it for the loan. According to the Right :ion. Gentleman,
right to say thus much, in order that the aperehension there would not be more than 280,000 men employed on
that had been created might be removed.—(Hear.) He the public works in Ireland after the Ist May. With
would new turn to the plan of the Government, and at respect to the works on which the men had been em-
the outset he wished to correct a statement which had ployed, he understood it would take 3i millions to
gone abroad, that the Government intended to raise an complete them. He denied the statement which had
additional loan, tor the purpose ef making the advances been made, that private labour absorbed those labourers
they proposed. In reply to the Bill of the Noble Lord, who were dismissed from the public works. The middle
he stated that the Government were about to take mea- class in Ireland were rapidly leaving the country, for
sures to relieve the distos• in Ireland, by providing em- the gentry were unable to give them employment. He
ployment for the peoele, by employing them upon the would like to. know if the expenses of the pesti-
relief works. He stated when he proposed these mea- lence which was now raging in Ireland,
sures, that it was the desire of the Government to foster was included in the 8,000,0001. which bad
private enterprise in the employment of the people, and been stated as the money to be advanced ?
he stated that for this purpose two Bills would be intro- The Hon. Gentleman then read a number of extract',
duced, one of which bad since received the sanction of the setting forth the great increase of fever in Ireland. In
House ; it was called the Improvement of Landed Pro- Sligo fever had extended to the main streets, and it had'
petty Bill, for the purposes of which 1,000,000/. was committed the most dreadful ravages in Fermanagh,
proposed to be advanced by the Government. Waterford, Dungarvan, Armagh, and Cork, where
For the other Bill, the reclamation of waste thirty-six bodies had been buried in one grave, and 320
lands, they propo ed to vote another 1,000.0001, coffins had been sold for the poor, in St. Nicholas parish,
Now he stated further, when he proposed to take this in a few days ; one hospital was filled constantly, four
loan of 8,000,0001., that a portion of that sum was to be persons with surgeons' certificates having been obliged
applied for the advancement of these Bills, which would to be left at the door, and more presented themselves
be afterwards repaid, and, therefore, that so much of the for admission in the morning. He hoped, however, that
sum should be subtracted from the whole amount. Have the money proposed to be advanced would not form a
ing stated so much he was at a loss to understand upon part of the loan of 8,000,000/.
what foundations it was urged that additional Exchequer Mr. M. GORE was strongly in favour of the measure.
Bilis were about to be issued by him. In the course of Ireland had got mineral resourees, which only required
discussion which had taken place on these two measures the aid of capital to develop°, and as private interference
it was generally agreed that by far the most important, had been discouraged, it was the bounden duty of the
of them, was that for the improvement of landed State to step forward and to afford a stimulus to the
property in Ireland. So the sum increased from employment of the unemployed in profitable labour like
1,000,000/. to 1,151,0001. But in the course of railways. In England they had voted mewl for the
this discussion it was found that a very great draining of the fens, and it was but right that such
differehce of opinion existed respecting the assistance should be extended to Ireland when so much
advantages to be derived from the Waste Lands Bill, as good would be accomplished by so doing. Ireland was
it was originally proposed to be a compulsory mea- a great expense to this country. For instance, the
sure. After considerable deliberation, it was determined keeping up of a larL•e staff of soldiers and police, but
to abandon the compulsory nature of the Bill, although, what a vast sum of money would be saved it troops
when they did so, they were aware that they were could be removed from place to place by railway. Ile
abandoning a great portion of the Bill. The measure quoted the opition of the Governor-General of India, to
for the reclamation of waste lands had been found ex - show that in India 60.0001. a year would be saved it'
tremely difficult, and therefore the Government had troops could be c eiveyed by railway in India; and if
thought it the best course to abandon the measure, as far this was praeticable in India,howmuch more so would
as the present session was concerned. With regard to it be in Ireland.—(Hear, h
ear. respect to the
the relief works, he was happy to state that a great re- argument that agriculturaldistricts) would not defray the
duction had recently taken place in the expenditure, and expence of consteu • instanced the Suuth-
the number of parties employed. In Merck lass, there ern ton and Peterbiting lines, he
traversed a
orough Railway, which •
were 734,000 persons employed. Before the end of '
purelyP agricultural district, as profitable speculstisn.
March they had been reduced 20 percent. This left the lieal so quilted the opinionthe large con-
of Mr. Pete, nurnb.:r 579,000. A further reduction had since tekert tractor, who had had
place, and by the Ist of May he expected that the
„num- of railways, construction
great experience in the ,
ber would be reduced to 280,000. Thus, while on the Beliumtonot only in this country, but in France ane,
beginning of March the number was 734,000, there turnedg Out showfi that agricultural railways invariably
would be on the 3d of May 280,000. And while this much to expectPr° profitable ; and it was, therefore, not toob
great redu lion had taken place, he was happy to say developed that the resources of Ireland would
de
that very little had been advanced to assist in the pay- tend also to railways in like manner. They would
ment of wages in other respects than on these works, excellent fisheriesiresse and render more valuable the
The accounts which bad been just received from Ireland, read an extract of
Ireland. The Hon. Gentleman
showed that a much larger amount of land was sows) to show that fisheriesrt?m a work by Mr. M ace
aeldi bh were materially improv
than before ; and wheat, both spring as well railways; and alsothe'
green crop. And at the same time, in a great part of Times Cotninissio one of the letters of Mr. Foster,_
the south and the south-west of' Ireland, the ordinary niers and harbourslitr the favour of the constructmenheof
for the promotion of fisheries.d The
hear. of potatoes had already been planted.—(Hear. would enable men to therefore,y
hear.) Na)', not only was it found that there were iie thought they woulgdodeoaailyout to seasdane
money in
plenty of potatoes for the purposes of seed, but they giving them those facilities
better
by
Itien'
money
were actually appearing in many places as an article of in feeding them in idlene-
, Instead of spending tasks.—
food. The relief-werks, with some few exceptions. (Hear, hear.) Dr. Rushoet. or at unprofitableof Caddar, in
would in a short time be reduced; but the people would the neighbourhood of Galt: clergymanl
g y urged, in a
still be engaged on unfinished works or on important letter, the construction of piers ' and harbours, and the
public works that would yet be found necessary to be construction of curing
stations. The Government de-
constructed. With respect to that part of the country served the greatest praise fer the pro posed construction
which had been under the operation of the public works. of those curing stations. Dr. Rustibe the aid of some
he had to interns the Muse that many of the roads benevolent persons,
had been enabled t4h.send several men
made, especially in the wilder parts of the country, were eut to sea, and the fish they had taken was worth 8001.,
in the highest degree beneficial. That benefit also would and it was eagerly bought p by persons about
be felt in a higher degree in the time coming, and the the place.—(Hear, hear.) Therefore,i it could not be
great line of railway to which they resolved to advance said that the Irish were wanti in energy, and were
the larger portion of the loan was, as the House knew, afraid to brave the elements in order to obtain their
the great trunk which ueited the west and south 01' living by severe toil.—(tlestr, hear.) They only stood
Ireland, and Dublin with Limerick and Cork. During in need of the means to enable them to work for their
the last year this company had applied to the Treasury living. And there was nothing in the condition of Ireland
for the loan of 500,0001. to complete their line, but the which was worse than other countries at a former period.
Treasury, in the then circumstances of the country. For instance, Scotland and Wales, had been at former
and at the rate of interest which was charged, did periods in a most distressed state, so much so ti' at both
not feel itself justified in granting this application ; life and property were placed in continual jeopardy.
but convinced of the great importance of the Spencer was of opinion in his day, that the evils of
line, they recommended that the Loan Commis- Ireland sprung from a want of wise legistation; it
sioners should advance 250,000/. The Great was unfortunate that such a lengthened period should
Southern and Western Company had not seen have elapsed without a better and
wiser
system having
fit to accept that sum, and for that year, been adopted, He looked
therefore, the matter was abandoned. On application measures as a step in the right direction. and it was for
being made to the Treasury, the Government desired island the other reasons which he had urged, that he
the public works Loan Commissioners to decide upon
Govern-
the application, and they reported favourably of the went. He
voteie
hoped
the measure of, her Majesty's
when Ireland would be
securities offered by the company, and stated that if' they a blessing ancapead
satofe seethe y
tod'England, and when they
had the funds at their own disposal they would not have should reap a rich hartest for the steps which they were
the slightest objection to advance the money themselves. then about to take.
The Right Hon. Baronet thee proceeded to read the re- Mr. W. COLLETT said that he did not regret not
port of the Public Works Loan Commissioners upon the having been able to address the House upon the previous
subject. The reason why the company made the first occasion, when the House entered into a discussion on
application was because the rate of interest in the the principles of the Bill, as his Noble Friend, the
money market was at the present so high. They had Member for Lynn, had fully argued the question,
called up every call they were empowered to make by and left nothing further to be advanced.
Act of 'Parliament, and some of the calls had even been The principal objection which was then urged
paid in anticipation. They hoped by the assistance against his Noble Friend, was the impossibility
of the Government to be enabled to open the line of set:m.4lg the money to be lent; that, however, had
to Limerick, to Melton, and to Cork, within two years, been admitted by the Chancellor of the Exchequer as
being a distance of ablest 115 miles. The whole sum to easy of accomplishment; here, then, was the principal,
be advanced by the Government, and the calls to be paid and almost the only argument which was strongly urged
up, would be expended in the earthworks of the line, neainstlit annihilated. It had also been admitted that tee
aed .n the employment of labour by this means, or equal Exchequer Loan Commissioners could lend a sum of
to double the amount advanced by the Government, 20,000 t, this had been denied_ on the former Occasion,
would thus be expended in labour in Ireland, it being The Hon. Gentleman concluded, by saying he
would
expressly stipulated that for every 100,0001. advanced by support the Bill.
the Government, 100.000/. would be raised by the Mr. CAYLEY, belleving
_that_ the present was a
company itself. The sum of 83,0001, was also proposed statesmanlike measure, he could not withhold his sup-
for the Waterford arid Kilkenny Railway, and the sum port from the Government measure. From the turn
of 23,0001. for the Dublin and Drogheda Railway. In which the debate had taken, it appeared to him the com-
the last session of Parliament a sum of 50,000 i. was mercial state of the country was the real question which
eeti y• towards the construction of public works in Ireland. they were now debating,
and
itsanswered purpose—that purpose
it was now proposed that 10,0001. out of that sum was threefold—first, that the Batik should maintain its
should be devoted to the improvement of the Shannon credit untainted ; secondly, that its stability should be
navigation. There would then remain a sum of ensured ; and thirdly,
that the country should
40,0001. at the disposal of the House, and it not be exposed to this monetary fluctuation,
was his opinion that one of the most desirable which of late had occasioned so much alarm.
means of employing that money was in the He asked the country what had been the state of the
encouragement of the fisheries in Ireland. The whole banking department of the Bank of England. He feared
of this sum of 40.000/., it was now proposed should be that it was not in so flourishing_ a state as it was thought.
cirected to the fisheries, piers, and harbours of Ireland. Ruinous fluctuations took place in trade, and instead of
Such was the subject of the resolution which he had to improving, the banking department became worse. No
propose, viz.—"'That a sum of 40,0001. should be di- doubt the framers of the Act would be very glad to
vided for the purpose of promoting fisheries, piers, and throw aspersions upon the Bank of England, and he con-
Right
harbours in Ireland." fessed that he thought his Hon, Friend had not
The resolution was then put from the chair. dealt fairly with them on the subject. His Right Hon.
Mr. GOULBURN was surprised to hear the Chan- Friend said that the alarm which was felt in the country
cellor of the Exchequer state that it was the intention was unnecessary, and that there was plenty of money in
of the Government to withdraw the funds which had the country. He thought that the causes of the depres-
been voted for the purpose of reclaiming the waste lands sion which existed in the country had not peen fairly
of Ireland. He was happy to hear that the panic in the appreciated. The country had seen at a critical moment
money market had subsided, and that the Bank was now that the Bank was compelled to go into the
enabled to afford every necessary accommodation. He market to supply the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
quite agreed with the Right Hon. Baronet, the Chancel- and they naturally became alarmed at the
for of the Exchequer, that it was highly desirable that circumstance. Immediately succeeding that, when
the Bank should act with prudence. He thought that the Batik refused all discount, was not that sufficient to
Bank, but also the House was called upon create alarm? What was the consequence? Every-
not only the
to act with prudence. And it was because he thought body who had a note determined to keep that note.
so, that he telt it necess ry to make a few remarks on Out .of what was the four millions which had been
the resolution submitted to the House. in order that the taken. supplied? Was it out of the notes of the public
Huse might, by being forewarned, be also forearmed.— or the notes of reserve.? It was evident, that if the
(Hear, hear.) The Right lion. Berouet had said till of the Bank was supplied out of the notes of reser*
that the Run of 625,0004 to be advanced to three that the reserve itself roust be shaken. The Beak never

before refused discount, and was not that sufficient to
shake the confidence of the mercantile interest in the
country? and that he believed to be the cause of the
panic which had existed. If there were, us it was said,
fourteen millions in reserve in the Bank of England,
and only seven or eight millions in circulation, was it
not a bad system which, by keeping so much money idle
should check the individualoperations of the country. His
Right Hon. Friend blamed the Biznk for this. Was it
only upon the Bank that this evil should be charged ?
The system was or* which, like Midas, in the midst of
gold, produced starvation. With every deference to his

Right Hon. Feiend'ssuprior information, it appeared to
him that the Bank was not to blame, but that it had
skilfully managed most difficult and complicated machi-
nery. In August 1846, the Bank had a maximum of
bullion. and according to his Right lion. Frienl, the
Bank ought to have lowered the rate of discount. The
Bank did so, and pushed out 21,000.0001., but in strict
accordance with the system professed by his Right Hon.
Friend, it ought to have pushed out 26,000,000/. The
Bank did not do so, and acted most wisely in not going
to that extent in sending out its mon,y thr,tuh the
country. It had gone as far as it could in prudence
with the system, but it exercised a t-ry wise
discretion in not going too far. What was the
Lion of the Bank of France, the stag- of tre(!e at the

time, and the state of the people P Tt:e Bank, in all
probability, prevented a very serious evil at the time.
The question which they had to discus was, which was
right ? The Bank or the system. If the Bank had in
1846 pushed out more notes, the state of the country,
instead of being sound at present, wou4l have been the
very reverse. In the spring of this year, whet, the sys-
tem called for the Bank to apply the screw, the Bank
acted upon a contrary principle, and again prow d that
its discretion was more to be trust,d to than the system
which was to he pursued under the Act, Ile thought,
after all these examples; that it was but fair to infer
that it was the system which had failed, and
not the Bank. In the present depression of
ad trade in the City—when East India Bills were, in
some instances, undiscountable—or only discountable at
16 per cent., when the ordinary bills of commerce were
virtually not to he discounted, and when all credit was
suspended, the effects of this sound system were found,
3ut, and if such were the effects of this sound system he
could only say that the sooner they returned to the old
and unsound system tile better.—(4.Theera.)
After a few words from Mr. CHAPLIN, in support of
the measure,

Sir W. CLAY said that his Right Hon. Friend had
stated that in Septemb,r last the Bank ought to have
pushed out its notes, and reduced its discount to two
per cent. That would have- been bad banking to force
out money, and thus encourage cureless speculation.
His Right Hon. Friend had, however, defended the
conduct of the Bank during the present year, when
there was a drain of money and bullion, the
Bank had not increased its rate of discount, so
that as far as his Right Honourable Friend's
defence ef the Bank went it was of no value.
In the year 1846 the imports were very great; showier.
a considerable excess over the importation of 1845. As'
far as the Custom House could afford any guide to the
amount, the imports in 1845 were about 20,000.000/. ; while
in 1846 they were 21,840,000/. The same was observable
in the importation of the raw material of our manufac-
tures in the same year; fur while articles of food had
greatly increased, the articles of raw material had di-
minished. Tnis year sgsin, there would be a vet, large
excess of imports, although, no doubt, that ultimately
orders would come for goods, and the exports would be
equalised to the imports. Still, in the mean time the
exchange must be balanced by specie. No other plan
of meeting the difficulty would suffice. Neither a pure
gold currency nor an issue of notes would have avoided
the rise of prices and the state of things to which be
had referred. Notwithstanding all that had been said
about the measure of' 1844, he was persuaded, had it not
been passed this country would not have been so well able
to meet the crisis as it was, and when it came it would
have lasted much longer. He maintained the soundness
of the measure of 1819, the object of which was simply
to provide for the convertibility of paper into gold at any
time when it might be required. He believed that the
Bill of 1844, which regulated the issues of paper in pro-
portion to the gold held by the banks, had induced a
more healthy system of banking and business, and the
country was in a far better condition in many respects
than it would otherwise have been. The operation of
this measure ought not to be charged with the present
state of the money market, but rather they should attri-
bute the crisis to the great imports of provisions which
had taken place in the last two years, and the extensive
application of the wealth of the country to the purpose
of railway construction. He believed that they would
with caution get out of their present difficulty, though
he did not expel for a long time that they would be able
to procure money at such a low interest as it had been
obtained for some time past. He had been anxious thus
far to trespass on the House to state his views of the real
cause of the present state of their monetary system.
Mr. ROEBUCK said the proposition they had before
them, was to grant a sum of 620,000/. for the construc-
tion of Irish railways. Several Hon. Members had
spoken on the currency and the state of trade, but no
one seemed to enter into the real question hefore the
House. The lion. Member for the Tower Hamlets had
made an excellent speech on the state of the money
rnar)t t, and the causes which had led to it. and here
way the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, proposing to aggravate the evil, and to
further derange the monetary market by advancing this
!aro sum of money. It was a course wo.t impolitic and
unjust, not only to the people of this country, but the
other parties in Ireland, who were not to participate in
the grant. He had certainly been much surprised at the
speech of the Bight Hen. Gentleman, the Member for
the University of Cambridge, who, while ho had
spoken d, cidedly against the appropriation of the money,
still meant to vote for. it. He was desirous, however,
that it should be taken out of the eight millions already
voted for Ireland. Now, when the Right Hon. the
Chancellor of the Exchequer proposed that 620,000 L
should be deducted from the eight millions that were
originally voted for the relief of the people of Ireland,
he should like to know what were the different circum-
stances in the state of that country, and in the intensity
of the distress, that warranted him in making that
diversion. But supposing the Right Hon. Baronet spoke
in this way. (The lion. Member for Bath here read a
long extract from the speech of the Right lion.
the Chancellor of the Exchequer on proposing the
grant of eight millions for the relief of distress in Ireland.)
He believed that there was nothinp, to justify the princi-
ple laid down in the proposition of the Right Hon.
Gentleman, as they did not know what the harvest
might bring forth, he thought it was sacrificing all that
was just and right and honourable to a false expediency
to accede to this proposition. He felt himself called
upon to divide the Committee upon this question, for he
did not think that which had been hardly won by the
intelligence, and by the sweat of the Englishman's brow,
should be frittered away in this idle and unthinking
manner.

Mr. BERNAL OSBORNE said that he fully
sympathised in the difficult and embarrassing
circumstances in which the Government were placed.
Something, he thought, was wanting in grasp of
thought, but no one would deny that the measures of the
Ministry were founded on good intentions, however de-
ficient they might be in wisdom. The poor-law had
been passed as a measure calculated to improve the
social co,:dition of Ireland. But what were the other
measures that were required to carry that previous mea-
sure into effect ? Was this 620.0001. to be the maximum
of assistance that was to be given to that unhappy coun-
try ? But it was avid that 1,500,000/. had been voted to
itni:rove the lands of Ireland. True, one million and a
half was given to the Irish landlords,
Mr. F. FRENCH—Ng given, lent.
Mr. B. OSBORNE.—The lion. Member need not
betray such extreme auseept,bility.—(Laughter.) This
money then was given—no, lent—(Laughter)—to the
landlords of the country, for the improvement of land
anti the employment of agricultural labourers. Why
the improvement of land necessarily led to the discou-
ragement of labour.—(No, no.) Would any one deny
that whereas, there were only four or five labourers em-
ployed on each hundred acres of well cultivated land in
England or Scotland, they in Ireland employed. some-
times four or five times that number. He d‘nibted much
that the Right Hon. the Chanceller of the Exchequer
was no farmer. He told the House that there was an
wbundance of potatoes in the country, and that the green
crops were laid down. If sovereigns were not more plen-
tiful than potatoes, the finance of the country would be in a
deplorable state ; he said that the green crops were on
the ground. Why, the period for SOA ing turnips was in
June. They were rated for the soup kitchens, and as
be had received, perhaps, one of the first copies of that
rate, he should favour the House with it. The soup-
rate then in the union 0. Clonmel, for three months, Wss
estimated at 8,3401., and it would yield, if paid, 8,9751. In
adopting that calcuLlion fur the rating of all the unions,
he found that the gross amount would be 4,752,000 L
This was to be raised for soup kitchens. What would
the poor law come to ? Averaging the rate at 4s. 6d.
in the pound, the total cost of out-door relief would

amount to 7,000,0001 Seven millions of money ! Why,
it amounted to the whole gross rental of Ireland. They
had arrived at this state of things that thi measure
would be impracticable in itself, unless rendered effec
tive by other large and caniprehetealve measures. Did
the Government think that these 620,000/. would absorb
the surplus labour of Ireland ? Or did they think that
Irish Members would rest sati,fied lit ?—(Laughter
and cheers.) It was a lamentable proof of the state of
feeling in that Hem.e, that when Irish gentlemen rose to
place the distressed condition of their country before
the House, they were met by invidious cheering ;
620,0001. were to be granted to the Great Southern and
Western Railway. He was not in any way connected
with that company, but he was ussur,d that this mode
of laying out their money would be productive of the
best results. He would just read to the House the
weekly return of traffic made up to the last week. The
House would remember that the line was only com-
pleted for fifty•six miles and a-half of its length, and
that in its route it embraced no commercial towns, or
any manufacturing district, for as yet it only connected
Dublin and Carlow. He found, however, that the traffic
for the last week was 1,5881. He regretted that when
the Noble Lord the Member tOr Lynn brought forward
his railway measure in the early part of the session,
that the Noble Lord at the head of the Government al-
lowed party pride to influence him in his opposition to it.
The whole remedy seemed to amount to this, and it was
feared that the whole of the tenant farmers were likely to
be eaten up, and the process seemed to be very likely to
be soon finished—(Laughter)—and to some it appeared
that this was a circumstance devoutly to be wished.—
(Hear, hear.) But what would become of the country
when it was overloaded with this Government debt. As
he understood, there was a rate now to be collected of a
pound in the pound, and he had heard from an authority
on which he could depend, but whose name he was nu):
to mention, that a rate of 13s. in the pound had
been levied, when a rate of tenpence could not he cul
lected—(Hear, hear.). Why, what lean with a good ac-
count at his bankbanker's,dra
would ever think of wing ou