The Sun.
London, England, 1840-07-03 00:00:00

Noble Lord did not discountenance that at an early

period.—(Cheers.) But just at the moment when there
was still a hope that they might have got into Com-
mittee, and that some progress might have been made
with the Bill, the Noble Lord rose and said he intended

to oppose the motion of his Hon. and Learned Friend
—(Great cheers and laughter among the Conserva-
tives)—but did not terminate his speech there, for he
commenced a new discussion upon the old subject of

the principle of the Bid.—(Loud cheers.) It was
competent to the Noble Lord, if he thought fit, to ob-
ject to an appeal being given to the Judges, to object
to the decision of the Judges or any tribunal
in Ireland being made final, but he would
ask any man if it was fair dealing, after the Noble
Lord had said he would discountenance the subsequent
motion of the Learned Gentleman, to occupy nearly
twenty minutes—(Laughter, and cries of " Oh, oh")—
at that particular critical moment of the night, upon the
original discussion on the principle of the Bill. The
Noble Lord took two objections to the principle of the
Bill ; one was, that an appeal was given to the Judge
of Assize ; the other was, that the jurisdiction of an
Election Committee, with respect to the decisions on
the right of voting was taken away ; and the Noble
Lord had dealt in unqualified condemnation of his
Noble Friend (Lord Stanley), because he had proposed
two such enactments. He was surprised the Noble
Lord and his Government could submit to the humilia-
Con which they had submitted to, in attempting to
. _ .

strike a blow at his Noble Friend and his Bill,—

Cheers.) His Noble Friend had been denounced as
F he had beet guilty of the greatest enormity.—
Ministerial cheers.) Hon. Members should hear the

whole sentence hefore they cheered. His Noble
Friend bad been denounced as having violated a great
constitutional principle because he had given an appeal
against the right of voting to the Judge of Assize.
He held in his han.l a Bill which contained the very
same enactment, and that Bill was brought in by Mr.
Sergeant O'Loughlin and Mr. Sergeant Perrin.—
(Chers.) Yet they condemned his Noble Friend as
guilty of more enormity because he trod in their foot-
steps, and adopted the very enactment which they
themselves had proposed.—(Vehement cheers.) It was
very possible the discussion raised by the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman on the subject of the definition

of the franchise, and still more the discussion raised by
the Noble Lord on the general principle of the Bill,
might succeed in the object for which they were intended,
and m;ght prevent any further progress with the Bill.—
(Hear, hear.) He confessed he hardly lamented it, be-
cause he was perfectly certain the cause of right and
justice must ultimately prevail.—( Loud cheering.) :f
they intended to act fairly, they ought to consider the
details of the Bill, and then they might exclude from it
every thing that might be objectionable. They inight
exclude from it, if they had the rower, the right to ap-
peal to the Judge ; but, instead of that course
being pursued, obstructions were offered which
prevented the consideration of it in detail. At that
advanced period of the Session, that course might
prevail ; but he believed it would conciliate to-
wards this Bill, not in England, not in Scotland, but
among the thinking part of the people of Ireland, so
much of favour and confidence, that the temporary
success in obstructing it now would only lay the founda-
tion for ultimate and lasting triumph.—(Cheers.)
Lord J. RUSSELL then rose, but was greeted with
loud cries of " Spoke, spoke," which prevented the
Noble Lord addressing the House for a few minutes.
As long as he had been in that House, he had never
known a Member denied an explanation.—(Cheers, and
cries of "Go on.") He only wished to say, in explana-
tion, that his argument was, which the Right Hon.
Gentleman did not seem to have followed, that it was
wrong to introduce in the Bill all those clauses with
respect to appeal without defining and clearing up
doubts relative to the franchise. (Hear, hear.)

The Right Hon. Gentleman had quoted the Bill of Sir
Michael O'Loughlin ; but in that Bill, although there
were clauses relative to the Judges, yet there were also
clauses relative to the franchise.—(Cheers.)
Sir R. PEEL—I understood the argument of the
Noble Lord—he has misunderstood mine.—(Hear,
hear, and laughter from- the Conservatives.) I said
the time to move the discussion of these clauses was
when we came to them in Committee.—(Hear.)
Mr. LITTON wished to say a word in explanation.
The Noble Lord, with reference to the language he
had made use of with regard to the Baron Richards
had applied the word " unassuming." (Cries of
" Spoke, spoke, Chair, chair.") It was great presump-
tion in a Barrister of the Crown—(Cries of " Order,
order, Chair, chair")
The SPEAKER—If the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman addrespc. tu.. House it must be in explanation.
Mr. LITTON again attempted to address the
House, but after standing on his legs for four or five mi-
nutes was obliged to resume his seat without accom-
plishing his object.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the
House divided, when there appeared—
For the instruction 162
Against it
Majority against the instruction 149
On our re-admission to the gallery we found
Lord STANLEY on his legs, moving that the House
do resolve itself into Committee on this Bill on Thurs-
day next.
Mr. O'CONNELL said he was anxious to say one
word of explanation as to the mistake of which he was
accused of being the cause. He had not given his
notice to the Clerk of the House in writing, and it
had not consequently appeared in the Votes of the
night. He thought he had explained to them succintly
what his notice was, but it appeared that they had mis-
understood him ; but he had distinctly given the notice
of the instruction which he intended to propose, and he
must have been so understood by the Hon. and Learned
Member for the University of Dublin, who had come
down to the House armed with his authorities for this
discussion. He had given a second notice relating
to the cess ;but as that cess was included in the clauses,
he question could be discussed in Committee without
any necessity for an instruction. He certainly had no
intention of opposing the motion which had just been
made, but he thought it necessary to make this expla-
nation.—( Cheers.)
Mr. SHAW had heard the Hon. Gentleman give
notice respecting the municipal cess, and had conse-
quently prepared himself for the discussion of the sub-
ject, but he most certainly had not heard him give any
notice of an instruction relating to the settlement of the

franchise.
Mr. O'CONNELL could not help the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman's want of hearing. Ho had given
that notice most distinctly ; and, with regard to the
second notice, defining the cess, he had not given any
notice of an instruction, because there was no necessity
for any instruction, as the Committee could discuss
that subject without it.
Mr. THESIGE It did not doubt but that the Hon.
and Learned Member for Dublin had given the notice
for the instruction as he had stated, but he had under-
stood that the notice for the instruction related to the
municipal ccss, and so satisfied had he been of this, that
he had that morning gone through the Report of the
Dublin Committee, in which those subjects had been
discussed.