The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-09 00:00:00

THE StfN, LONDON', TUESDAY EVENING, MARCH 9, 1847.

session
ysl°n which had been answered for the same reason. The
shl44 a Chancellor to the Exchequer tightine, against the First
erd of the Treasury on the most vital questions affecting
Thlire! of eight millions of her Majesty's subjects. Hed
or say that the whole Ministry put him in
, story which had been told him by an old
.sailor aboutmind
them
t4hgetraeennon. She was in so rotten a condition, that when
to took her into port and drew the water from her the
hyrn,wed into pieces.—( Hear, hear.) She floated on the top
felttt"e Sarglng of the water, but when that was withdrawn she
°Pieces. So with the Ministry; they only floated on the
top by the surging of 'their o•pponents, but the moment opposi-
(Re ceased they disagreed, and their policy fell to pieces.
thrar, hears) Great God t could it be thought, on a question
iathis rnagnitude—on a measure of such vital importancelas
, that the Noble Lord and the Right Hon. Baronet were
°PPosed the one toswer the
romother.' On this question he could not
receive an an f the Noble Lord—he did not know
Sill what
!e
..ded to do in a matter affecting the lives of eight
Join °1 people. —( Cheers, and " Hear,
.hear." from Lord
qussell.) If the Noble Lord gave bun that cheer,
. he
a
he "
through wrong, and that the Noble Lord
.would noft
tcha
JRh either of those Bills unless lie carried bothho
Id emay.
eored.nteiided that the rich people of Ireland
thseou
national•p
sepenstZ to their means, in order to maintain
that sit'sl,f the country. He as.umed thet a large majority in
t qouse were in favour of the union between the. two coun-
wr el at present. Therefore he would contend that their expenses
land national expenses, and why should not every man insartoce-
reeoaP23 according to his means for that end, in the
cit.-
eura,er as in England. Let the House meet the peculiar
1 se Irish
Gse,lanees of the Irish proprietors. Every one of t f
n„-"etuen connected with the administration were d, nizens
isec7e,,tnnd 1 they live in England, and they each pay their
w
did it e.tax out of the proceeds of his Irish property. r e
to,
not stand to common sense that, a man who.lived
quota
tolg and, Possessing Irish property, should bear
,rwtydi the expenses of the nation ? Why, then, in the name
eat ?ten, should a man, because he chose to live in Dublin,
b
bast. the same thing ?—( Cheers.) The Right ti iihourate
tat in (is."' H. Peel) brought forward his measure for an incor.n
tier: "is usual, smiling, pleasant manner. Ile met the °Nee-
sae. t°o, just like a lawyer, and opened his case carefully, just
ilsech,l7eel to meet the difficulties of his own case. He (Mr.
th.e) took the liberty at that time of suggesting to him
Si:,: 14 all Probability, his measure would not be a temporary
soft a Silly ask it for three years,' s' as the reply of that
sod s.ne gentle statesman," and (continued the Hon. Member,
Robertin'itpiting at the same time the tone and gestures of . Sir
is eses: " Ss-es how unreasonable you are in opposing
thpsis -:rositions you are to have it only for three years, and
tht7res,' that cantankerous' little man—( Laughter) —the Hon.f
,-"er for Bath—vou see how he opposes me ; it is only or
the e years." Thethree years passed, and again came down
the hsnasive Premier, and patting him (Mr. Roebuck) on
ead
out be ' said " It is true the three years are gone, but. I have
it se •en altogether able to meet my
years—only'dcul we will har,
--(ta'°' if you please, for three three years.
bk
raised aoglater ) ls • Again, Cassandra like, he ( Mr.
_Roet.iunc
of)
the in "Ls head and suggested " eternity,' as trhedd i
eelSeaoeieertunestax.—(Laughter.) " Oh,' rep ill, utrha:earasb—le
I can assure you it will oily be. for t ee
to,Y three years."— ( Great laughter.) Why es er)-
tili(new well that it would last at least cueval
eel.
duration of their natuial lives. There were many,
tipoYen'itanY Young legislators in that
House,aeatha would have to pay the income-tax
who might depend
till the day of their
thin , But the Right Hon. Baronet said "Do not say ahy-
ielfaueet
y imposing the income-tax in Ireland ; I am going
Ras p",,-e," ' upon the spirits of that country." The measure
l'ealeaaa—ut butt
the spirit tax was never levied, and the next
and realed Why Because smuggling increased,
Nat ine end the tax had to be taken off
.. But wasßtahreonient-
!Nal Rat he
on in its stead? . The Right Hon.
or
twenty,
t!asa, t he had seen of him daring the last fifteen
years
always ready to yield to the reason of the people of
elate and he wanted the Noble Lord to feel and appre-
teroi„ s force in the same way. There must be complete over-
eloatubg of the whole Irish system.--.-(Hear.) But there
by e no nonsensical repeal, unless it were brought about
y te 'it nonsensical meetings, and then it would be cohceded
had" eetronon sense of England. At present an Irishman
for n° independence he could not depend upon his ownlabour
'etirlleennee, but loo'ked to the assistance and patronage of
s''eei•sat and rich man above him. He did not know the
aysee' •;:ga of independence, because he had never relied.uponthis
'Pie °nest toil, while the Englishman looked upon it, not
.as
th„,asure, but as a necessity for life. Now, it ought to .°
saroeunfsiness of the Noble Lord to prepare the Irishman for the
and n„e,eling, to teach him to rely on his own individual labour
eae,e;upon the. support of the great man. The Noble
anoer Lord,
He
tIN w.as doing this in a most preposterousm
soe's!'shtng, Criminally lavishing, the wealth of England
Raoq"nue this state of things in Ireland, and the consequence
the be, that theyear It would be succeeded by
the More terrible eear of 18-18, and should riot
frutti nil Powerful Providence vouchsafe to send a
A ul harvest in England, how direful would be the visitation.
taaßtreater fault was never committed by any statesman than
be fotuithe?nb.le. Lord was falling
.into.d There was no parallel to
Rretted din history, from Genesis own etar.ds, and
.why_here.nre;
It tbe consequence of it was that the misery and suff g
dose
lead to would fall upon England as well as upon Ireland.
,1,,e pride of the people of England would not let them pro-
ht`elra their distress ; it prevented them from exclaiming " God
tha Your Honour, give us aid!" They would die rather
then support themselves by such means. He asked
if representatives of the people of England
laoleY would sacrifice their constituents, instead of making the
eatiajeedt property of Ireland, and all incomes ionf
the couennetrryai
et.;
ticioenrtiabtuet.e
Letoweavredrsy the siunpp r
,elfaerelreland aid, accordingg
his means; but for God's sake, do not let them tell him that
e'gnse who received 150/. a year—for that was all he asked—
bere not in a condition to contribute their quota towards the
urdens of the people. One word more. It would not be
;he before the nation would be called upon, in its great
Lational capacity, to decide on fie conduct of that House
atilore long, each of them would stand before the nation
as" would be called upon to reply to the.. question, " What
tae, You done with our means?" But with what face could
tar-o'.rePly " We have squandered them upon the idle; we have
them away upon those who have neglected their duty ;
ee,neave Paid the Irish poor because the proprietors of the soil
eluded unwilling to support them."—( Hear.) Are you, con-
yea the Hon. Member, prepared to say—each or any of
me R'9 to meet your constituents? If you are not, vote with
resele(4l 1 ask you on the present occasion, to support the
Sir tic!ri which I have proposed.—( Cheers.)
HALL seconded the motion.
A, question being then put by the SPIAKSR,
si,ttrt nit
veHERE said he came down to the House to
strie-o4tri One of the most important measures which the Goverh-
e'lei:d thought right to submit to the Legislature for their
sietreouration, with the view of mitigating the unexampled
the
keri,llo • and fan-141 e in Ireland. Now he deprecate .
iisoa noses tone of the lion. Gentleman who had cast a.spei.-
bnaipa°n the characters of Irishmen, and drawn invidious
Lush
,nsons between Celts and Saxons, because discussions o
thatio'i nature could not be expected to have any other effect
tlasesh exasPesating the Irish people, and producing a bad effect
toent6ere„
Words pronounced within those wslls had ringing
*hich • They had been carried to that suffering county, in
sailer Privation was extreme, and would materially add to the
welt, Yhthe People of that country were suffering. It was not
th n thou la
e per g t, for any one to make use of that suffering for
"etwe,,_Pcle of widening whatever breach there might
.be
People nt the Irish and English people, and of leading the ris
'nese, 'look to that House by its being pointed to, as the
nese,
thell their miser'es • Now, he deeply regretted that
b%t.o.deiiveercairecumastaneaa *the Hon. Gentleman had thought
that roses° n. speech as the 'one they had just heard,
It. hi Y Principally for the e of doing all
lfurpos • 1 rl
ni lay to persuade that ouse, but partici) a y
'itch embers
toiii not to be drawn into discussions of
bad r es as those which the Honourable Member
cßltleed, but rather to apply their addresses to the proper
*11i0,71 before them and toconsider the itneortant measure
sserci.he Goverom, h
d_
esubmitted,in truth, if on
v ineasure elth a ere to consume the greater part of
d"'tio'ite-llg Upon 'ey
extraneousere
matters, or upon the relative con-
kl"c'tl '""n and Celt, upon the other questions intro-
toted into
the speech f
eu the Hon. Gentleman, he
"spair of - •
Itith the Governmentarrying out
had
important measures
pseviiiithe
insere submitted to them
much of the distress which
Part
or lreland H a'r hear.) He protested, on the
:irnstei;,the Government,.( ea
'ainst this waste of time, and
.
,Tetelai" would not be laid atg the door of the Government, if
ctleussto°: shad
pass away without being able to obtain proper
tts eat t'n those measures which the Government a
then
'ntsr Y to submit to the House. He would, however,
14,elnoso?°0°, the question, whether Ireland should bear an equal
ie was taxation as this country. As a general principle,
t.`aaeg 1.,0t preared country( deny that Ireland ought to be
l'utk Ise this Hear, hear, from Mr. Roe-
ais,„cuet he must say he thought it would be a
eeZtl"..l,r resolution for the House to come to at a period of un-
Pes4tletl distress in Ireland, and when the just measure of
tles°„t relief was submitted to the House, if they said that,
t-ece ina,,sos view. of remedying that distress, they should at
Ras 41, e an income-tax, and an assessed tax upon her. He
klato th
the was expressing the feelings of the House when he
itleetehe-;
winiteaytevcould not support
think of its abstract justice.
the proposition of the Hon.
tWu however, proceed might
teed to advert to one or
P.lnt •
!`,ote in the Honourable Gentleman's. address.
the Q'n•• "ad never disguised from the House his opinion, that
thier "rertirnent expenditure in Ireland had caused great mis
°if th;,"(Rear, hear.) It was impossible for the Government
'neetese°untry to undertake that, which was out o t e ordin y
lide Vl5 of Government, namely, to find employment or pro-
Oe 1°(1 for the people of Ireland ; it was impossible for the
dee,erneet to undertake functions of this kind without pro-
h,,,aig great and Concomitant mischief.—( Hear,,
tee Labour-rate Act, intredaced by pt he lc, tierce sought to disguise hisopinion that with regard to
hear.) He
h late, and greatly ex-
teniitltstd by. the present Government, for the purpose of providing
sere}, the derangement of labour ccnsequent on the. in .
teeta e or Government would be fraught with mischief.
it to_ that measure to which he gave his cordial support,
hos
oent the Liill which provided food and not labour for the
shoof Ireland, even that measure would produce great mis-
Ple/Ita Rut if Government were not to provide food or em-
reaitent for the people, what was the alternative ? Without
theti, g an effort, without raising a hand, were they to allow
Iberisr'd,st nay millions, of their miserable fellow-subjects to
could ?. pestilenee ariSstarvation. He said that the man who
li,rri! such counsel to the Government had not one spark
‘o"nlty in his bosom.—( Hear, hear.) It was the neces-
that he called for those measures, it was on that necessity
Learns founded his justification.—( dheers. ) The Hon. and
PrteoV. Gentleman had also adverted to what his Noble
Irish ',Bad said with regard to the connexion between the
pthe H,:'"r'law and the Bill that was then before the House.
ad -n• Gentleman was surprises! that his Neble Friend
aegitjt'tlt anseered the uestion namely, whether, in the event
s P,r-law measugre not Passing that House, the Govern-
Frienplaie„-e,r,e Prepared to abandon the Bill then under
riestd,l"°n? He (Mr Labouchere) believed his Noble
d
'° be both a bold •man and a bold Minister, L get th but he
Nell at another necessary virtue in a Minister of the
ittioele het' discretion, and he considered that the Noble Lord
oe of mating in this quality if he had answered the ques-
thkt Hcm.
Member. His Noble Friend had conceded
ha here was 8 a close connexion between these measures, and.
A 0,5: at his desire that they should be considered pars
thou der to
Ret that this k go tip to
oughthavete.gt He
would howledge ti satisfied the Hon.
tharttlher.
to oceasiolnie
h.
trouble the House any further on
tlis-tdrat the' p principal indue,ement ibn rising had been
t, eession
whiosirse not to allow itself tho drawn into the
the . Hon.
.Gentleman
revivedeoriinaanted. He
S:wotiatiltdait__.(inliseussion which cculd on ) angry feel-
-1 wa
rplste(ifeotri thrown away, nay, worse, that it would be
.nuschtevous purposes. The alarming situation
in the
hiq ttoh:r air a matter to
IbeG cot? smideutr,
Ite Pniee41' He hoped 7* and Learnes
.hente had corn-
and Let spirit to th t ey would approac e
bsubject in a
see areed at which had been evinced y the lio.n.
heeld he- Member for Bath, and that the great question
qeon discussed in a temperate and becoming
.manner.
taeal of the them that he was as much against
.the
ay, diatioeti_ Union
. as any man could be. He desired
ha,LY with,"tft.existing between Celt and Saxon to he done
this oat they should be fused into one great nation
*ellesde won!
,d never be accomplished by abusing the Irith
"O
Itheo, 't9r uy such attacks as the House had just listened to.
ett
„Le„urther ob,ervations, he hoped the House would not terain the discussion, but would allow them to go into
ton, • ',lee,
A„idereci...... allote
th provisions of the Bill might be fully
! s HAS' Hear, hear.)
would at once have acceded to the proposition

of the Might Hon. Gent., but as. an Irishman, after the ta tack
which hid been made, he must say a fe v words in ansie.er.
He bad hoped that when they came to the considerelien of
the permanent measures for the relief of Ireland
they would have been discussed in a different spirit.
He might. say that the Irish Members had not thrown any im-
pediment in the way of the permanent measures to be adopted
for the relief of their country, and they were also willing- to
submit to any tax which might be imposed upon property in
Ireland. He had hoped that they would acknowledge the
splendid liberality of England, and had successfully defended
themselves from the imputations which had so lately
been passed upon them by the IL nourable Member
and a few others in that House. He had hoped
that acrimony and personal discussion had ceased, and
that they had given place to a spirit of calm and dis-
passionate consideration of this subject. They had hoped that,
limier God's blessing, the hand of death would have been
stayed, and some alleviation afforded to suffering by these tem-
porary measures, if they had been permitted to pass without
intert option. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had also
referred to a conversation which be had with some
Roman Catholic priests, but he wished that the Hon.
and Learned Member had stated the names of those
gentlemen in the neighbourhood of Mallow, and not given out
the anoeyaious accusation which he had done. He could not
believe it possible that any Irish gentleman would be guity of
such conduct ; and if any such thing occurred, he (Mr. Shaw)
would join with the Hon. and Learned Member in condemning
it. But the Hon. Member's accusation did not refer to a
single individual but to a whole district. The lion. and
Learned Gentleman said that their priests had told hitn not to
believe one word of what the Irish Members stated in that
House, for they did not represent the country. The Hon.
Gentleman was apt to mistake himself for the people of Eng-
land, a, d if any person came to him (Mr. Shaw) and told him
not to believe one word of what the Hon. Gentleman said, for
he did not represent the people of England, he would must re-
ligiously adhere to the advice. The lion, Member seemed to
think that his kindness to the poor of Ireland ought to be shown
by attacks upon the rich, and his benevolence to the tenant by
his malevolence to the landlord. He said that no system of relief
ought to be applied to Ireland unless coupled with a general system
of taxation upon property Would the lion. and Learned
Gentleman just allow him to state a few facts which bore upon
this question, and which would show the difference of the ca-
pabilities of Ireland and England with regard to bearing taxa-
tion, and what a burden be sought to impose upon property.
In Great Britain the population was a little more than slow le
that of Ireland. The cultivated land of England was thirty-
four millions of acres, but in Ireland about fourteen millions.
The rental in Great Britain was estimated at one hundred anti
fifty millions, and ie Ireland at thirty -six milions; whilst in
Ireland the number of labourers bore the proportion of two to
one of the number of Great Britain. The wages of the la-
b -,urers of Great Britain averaged es. to lOs. per week, and in
Ireland they were 2s. per week. Ihe wealth of England was
seventy millions, and of Ireland about six millions. Let them
take the counties of Norfolk and Mayo. In Norfolk the ren-
tal was two millions, whilst in Mayo the rental was only
326,000/. In Ireland there were two million and a half of per-
sons who at ordinary times were destitute, ant he was persuaded
that two millions more were in such a state as to be entitled
to poor-law relief. He had mentioned these few facts to show
to the Hon. Member the incapacity of Ireland to bear a heavy
system of taxation. He thanked the House for the attention
it had given to him whilst lie had detained them from going
into Committee on the mi asures before it.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL said that the speech of the Hoe. and
Learned Gentleman had been listened to with great attention ;
and he, for one, had no ill feeling upon the subject. The
Honourable Gentleman had commenced by stating that
he should not go into any offensive details, and yet lie
had accused them of coming into that House and
talking of utter nonsense. The Hon. Gentleman had said
one thing which he was at first inclined to take up in a rather
more strong sense than he was then inclined to do. The Hon
Gentleman had spoken of the repeal of the union, and had
spoken of cutting the connexion between the country, and
leaving it to its own fate. Such a sentiment had never come
from the Irish Members, but had come from one who desired
to speak the feelings of the English nation, though he did not
The Irish Members had cried out to the Government to feed
the people when they were starving, and to insist that rich
landed proprietors should not spend their money here, but that
they should be compelled to go to their own country. The
Hon. Member had proposed to leave them to their own
fate, to sink or swim, or to grind them down still
further by the imposition of a heavy tax.
He was as much opposed to the poor-law as any one—(Hear,
hear, from Mr. Roebuck) —but he should on the present occa-
sion vote for it. It was not a time to look to anything beyond
the present. The emergency was such that they had not time
to look forward to the future. He would support it in every
stage, and he asked the Hon. Gentleman to give it his support
also, and to let them have a fair experiment of the poor-law
instead of a mockery and a delusion. The Hon. Gentleman
had not referred at any length to the subject of his motion,
and indeed he was right, for he (Mr. J. O'Connell) was pre-
pared to show that the lion. Member had gone on entirely
wrong grounds. He did not wish to trespass upon the House
with his authorities at that moment.,—( Hear, hear, from Mr.
Roebuck, )—but if there was any disposition on the part of
the House, he would enter into them at once. He was not
disposed to di ny the justness of encomiums passed by the Hon.
fSolre mh
is n uponcou
nh
ti
rs y omwenn c oLuent ttrhy butthem
llook
kh he claimed equ
al
expatriated justness
Irish, who had contrived to send over to their fellow-country-
men a sum of 200,000/. A sum nearly, if not quite, equal to
that which the rich had contributed.
Mr. ROEBUCK—The rich in Ireland.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL.—The rich of this country, and
surely such a fact must operate to the credit of the Irish
feeling. It was a well-known fart, that as soon as a farmer
made any improvement in the land, that'moment his rent was
raised. 'There was no protection whatever given them by the
law. Yat this was the equal justice, dealt to the people of
Ireland by an English Parliament. The Noble and Learned
Member had a1..0 said, why did they not tax the horses, ser-
vants, and arms of the Irish gentry ? To that he would
answer, tax by all means those who came over here as legis-
lators, or to spend their incomes out of the country, but do not
let them tax the resident gentry, who already were borne down
enough by taxation. The same applied to the tradesman, and
men of business in Ireland. Already they had enough to suffer
without being obliged to pay an income or property-tax. While
the union existed he could not consent to extend those taxes
to those who were resident in Ireland. The Honourable and
Learned Member (Mr. Roebuck) had the credit of being a
great constitutional lawyer. If so, he must admit that represent-
ation should be coequal with taxation. Applying this principle
to the taxation and representation of Ireland, he found that
while Ireland paid the same taxes in three cases out of four
that England did, her proportion of represents ives, compared
with England. was Ito 512 or 6. Whatever were the existing
evils of Ireland, he believed they had originates! be the union,
anti at ar.y future time, he would be prepared fully to go into
the subject with the Hen. and Learned Gentleman if he was
prepared to do sn.—( Hear, hear. )
Mr. BAILLIE said that ever since the beginning of the
session, the Hon. and Learned Member for Bole had insis:ed
on one proposition, which was, that the land of a country was
bound to sustain its population. Now he ( Mr. Millie) admitted
the truth of the proposition. It was indisputable—but the
Hots. and Learned Member was much mistaken if he thought
that this abstract proposition could be always carried out.
There were many districts that could not maintain
their poor, and he wanted to know how, under
such circumstances, the destitute were to be sup-
ported? lie had on a former occasion pointed at the
case of the Isle of Sky, the rental of which in the best of
times would not maintain its population more than six months
in the year, and in the present year, from the failure of the
potato crop, not more than two months. How then could the
land support those people ? He trusted the House would be
cautious how they introduced the English Poor-law into Ire-
land, and above all not to grant out-door relief to the able-
bodied labourer. Such a course would, in his opinion, be
ruinous. lie thought it would be better, in the first instance,
to introduce such a law as the Scotch one into operation in
Ireland, and to extend its provisions afterwards, if found
necessary.—( Hear, hear. )
Mr. HUME remarked that the Hon. Gentleman who had
last spoken had gone altogether vs,rle of the question. In fact,
he had not referred to it at all. The real question of his Hon.
and Learned Friend (Mr. Roebuck) was that the
Irish landlords should be subjected to the same
taxation as the landlords and people of England.
The case of the Isle of Sky had nothing whatever
to do with the question; yet surely the Hon Member for
Inverness would not be bold enough to say that the whole
property of Sky should not first be taxed to the support of the
poor, before coining to England, and asking her for support.
A great deal had been said about the speech of the Hon. and
Learned Member for Bath exciting angry and vindictive
feelings, btu it was not the spirit of the speech they had to
deal with, it was the motion by which it was accompanied—
whether a fair and equitable system of taxation for Ireland
should not be adopted.—( Hear, hear.) It was quite clear that
the Government had acted in a most unsatisfactory manner in
employing the Irish people on useless public works but the
future was what the House had to deal with. Notwithstanding
what had been said, he was firmly of opinion that the Hon. and
Learned Member for Bath had made out his case. None
could deny the general facts and arguments which he had em-
ployed. While this was his (Mr. Hume's) opinion of the
motion, at the same time he agreed that the Hon. Menibe,r
for Kilkenny was right in attributing the present evils in Ire-
land to misgovernment. Previous legislatures hail been guilty
of this misgovernment, and lie would now support any measure
for Ireland which was calculated to give that country equal
rights and privileges with England.—( Hear, hear.) Until
they relieved Ireland from the burdens which pressed upon it—
until they obliged those whose lands were mortgaged to a great
extent to sell that land, they would have no mitigation of the
evils which at present afflicted Ireland. They would find that
a great proportion of the soil of that country was arrested in
Chancery, and unless slime effective means were therefore
adopted by Government, it would be useless to expect that the
landlords would endeavour to prevent the poor from starving.
On these grounds he would support the motion of his Hon.
Friend the Member for Bath. He would support him, because
he thought the motion well timed. The Hon. Member had
chosen a time when it was absolutely necessary that the opinion
of the House should be taken. He had asked for nothing but
what was fair, and entertaining that opinion, he (Mr. Hume)
would support his Hon. Friend if he pressed his motion to a

division. -
Sir ROBERT PEEL said that one important part of
touchedthis
q euspt ionn
by had,th eit
differentappeared i
Members
behrism., h been
had
shpuotk e
nslightly
it that evening, and there was little prospect, of getting.throug
the Bill under eight or ten nights at least, if such a discussion
were permitted to proceed. Now his opinion was, that this
was not the proper occasion in which to enter upon the discus-
sion of the question, whether or not the general burden of pro-
viding for the poor shouti he (as in England) thrown upon
Ireland, by compelling contributions to the financial taxes of
the country, as well as to the local burdens. He did not think
that this was the fitting occasion for discussing this question,
or that the Hon. Member's amendment was the best mode of
providing for the evils they had to consider. What was it that
the Honourable Member proposed? He proposed, that be-
fore entering upon the consideration of the Bill brought
forward by the Noble Lord and the Government—namely,
to advance certain sums by way of loans, for the pur-
pose of employing industrial labour, and also of im-
proving landed property ; to add to that Bill certain comb--
tions which could only provoke disideluiosstnsr.ieosn ?,e,wfnittlheout leading to
any.th a more
ionr ea
niyi practical result.
of
relief
for
r,ihee
them al
nr
i s hp rpoopoors ebd;
loans to the owners of property in Ireland they would be
unjust and impolitic, unless accompanied by a system of taxa-
tion, which would subj-ct such property to tl:e burdens already
imposed upon all property throughout Great Britain." Now
he (Sir R. Peel) assented to the principle of that resolution,
the real and practical difficulty was not to he found in this ab-
stract principle itself, but in the application of it under existing
circumstances—(Hear, hear)—and in the mode proposed by
the Hen. Gentleman. Why, in the first place, he (Sir 11,
Peel) was of opinion that the landlords in Ireland could
not submit to have these burdens imposed upon
theta—( Hear, hear)—he apprehended that the burdens
imposed upon property in Scotland were not the same with
those imposed in EngtAnd. But let them observe what the
Bill said. The Bill enabled certain owners of property in
Ireland to avail themselves of a power which the Government
possessed of granting money by way of loan, and when they
were told that nearly 700 000
persons were employed in public
works which were either useless or unnecessary, and when they
had to consider a a easure which proposed to supply food to the
suffering poor gratuitously, he though' few persons would doubt
that it might be advisable in certain cases to advance sums of
money to the landlords of Ireland, for the purpose of improving

the land, and also of employing the labourers in the cultivation
of the s,,il, and thus increasing its produce ; but the Pon.
Gentleman asked, that no plan of relief for the distress of the
Irish poor by means of loans to the owners of property in
Ireland should be permitted, ucless accompanied by a system
of taxation wt ich would subject such property to the burdens
already imposed upon all property throughout Great Britain. Now
he would ask the Hon. Member how it would be practical to
cr-rry out this resolution ? Supposing that t -venty landed pro-
prietors wished to borrow from Government an amount of
10,0001. each, for the purpose of improving their propel ties,
under an engagement for the repayment of the amount ad-
vanced, what would be the practical effect of the resolution as
worded by the Hon. Member ? Did he mean that the pro-
prietors should be subjected to the same burdens as in Eng-
land ?

Mr. ROEBUCK—Yes.
Sir R. PEEL—They were then to pay an income-tax, but
it was to be an income-tax applicable to Ireland generally ;
and why ? because perhaps twenty proprietors had availed
themsel►es of the opportunity offered them of borrowing cer-
tain moneys by way of loan.
Mr. ROEBUCK -Oh, no, no.

Sir R. PEEL—Why, what could be the meaning of the
Hon. Gentleman's reservation? If ten individuals borrowed
money from Government for the purpose of improv'ng their
properties, either tleey were to pay the income-tax individually
or the whole population of Ireland were to be liable to pay it.
Which did the lion. Gentleman mean ?
Mr. ROFBUCK—The whole of Ireland of course.
Sir ROBERT PEEL—What ! if they were to advance
10,0001. to each of tho.c ten individuals, was that to he held a
good and sufficient reason why they should tax the whole
population of Ireland? But the How. Gentlemen's resolution
said that the application of the property-lax would depend on
the question whether advances of money had been made to
certain parties. Surely this was cot doing justice to the mag-
nitude of the subject ; surely this was not meeting the question
which the Noble Lord had introduced in a proper manner.
He ( Sir Robert Peel) did not know what answer the Hon.
Gentleman could give to his question. He did not object to
the abstract principle advanced by the Hon. Gentleman, but
he did affirm, that the difficulties of Ireland were not to he met
by a resolution like this; and, above all, he (Sir R. Peel)
would not concede that an income-tax should be imposed upon
Ireland because certain advances of money had been made to
certain landlords. He considered that he much diminished the
claim which England had upon Ireland, if, to the measures
of the Noble Lord, were attached the reservation of the
Hon. Gentleman. Now the House would observe, that he did not
deny that it might be just; on a reconsideration of their finan-
cial system, to which they must shortly come, he would not
deny that then the question might he considered of equal bur.
r ens. But it might be said that he was prejudicing the case,
that he was taking a prejudiced view of the subject, and that
he much diminished the prospect of a satisfactory arrangem'nt
by not agreeing to the present resolution. All he could say
was, that he objected to these general and abstract reso-
lutions. When this measure would come before them, he
could see difficultiesi enough which would require to be solved,
before it could go through Committee, and he did not think
that they were increasing the pes.ibility of a satisfactory result,
by fettering themselves with engagements; like those s equired
by the Hon. Member, or agreeing to abstract principles, like
that in the resolution. He was ready to consider the whole
question when it came before them in another shape, but he
thought this time unfitted for its consideration.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he objected wholly to the
imposition of an Income Tax upon landlords who might
borrow money from the Government under this Bill ;
and he hail not intended to make any observations
that evening, if the Honourable and Learned
Member had confined himself to the mere subject
matter of the resolution. The Hon. Gentleman, however,
had omitted many of the arguments in favour of his proposi-
tions in order to launch out against Irish proprietors, against
the Ministry, the most unjust sarcasms, rather with a view of
amusing the House, than meeting the question. With respect
to the Income and Property-tax Acts, he thought there were
arguments—if that were the proper time to consider them—
there were arguments in favour of this proposition connected
with the state of Ireland itself, because an argument might be
adduced in favour of direct taxation from the fact that
the indirect taxation in Ireland had been so dispro-
portioned to the means of consumption, and therefore
had furnished one main cause for that checked consumption,
as was ably shown in a speech of the late Lord Sydenham,
and, therefore, if the Hon. Gentleman had diseu-sed the
question on fair grounds, he might have used many arguments
which he had altogether omitted that evening. The Hon.
Gentleman, in some of his remarks, had shown, a misappre •
hension of the grounds on which he (Lord J. Russell) had
proposed that the Bill before the House, a Bill for the relief
of the poor, should pass concurrently with the Landed Pro-
perty Bill. He thought it was most desirable that the popu-
lation of Ireland, a great part of whom would be unable to live
on the small plots of potatoes which they held, should be sup.
plied with some other means of subsistence, and he knew none
better than to encourage the proprietors of the soil to improve
their lands, to increase the produce, at the same time giving
employment to the industrial labour of the country. But
while this effect was desirable, he doubted if it could be ob-
tained so completely, unless accompanied by a Bill which would
compel the owners of the soil to support these who were
starving. lie believed, therefore, that if a Bill were brought
in, compelling them to support those who were destitute, on the
one hand, they should, on the other, give the means of employ-
ment by advancing loans of money, and thus it was desirable that
these two Bills should accompany each other. With regard
to the poor-law, he thought that if they imposed considerable
burdens on the owners of the land, they ought also to provide
means for the improvement of that land to enable it to bear
those added burdens. One means was to enable the landlords
to obtain these loans on terms which would induce them to
apply to Government for them another was in cases where
the proprietors had but small incomes, and where the rest of
these incomes were eaten up by mortgages, to enable these
proprietors to sell a portion of their lands, arid thus place them-
selves in the situation of smaller proprietors, having smaller
incomes, but incomes that were free. He thought, therefore,
that if these measures were allowed to accompany each other, con-
siderable expectations might be entertained of their efficiency.
The Hon. Member for Montrose had expressed a great alarm
at hearing that 700,000 persons were employed on
the public works of Ireland. He (Lord John Rus-
sell) would not think himself justified, although-
there were no other means of supporting the people in their
present wretched state of destitution, if he did not place a
strong cheek on the present employment of the poor in Ire-
land. The measure was passed fur the purpose of affording a
temporary relief to the destitute in that country ; and the
Government had endeavoured, by means of a letter of the
Secretary of State for Ireland, and by other means to di-
minish the number of the labourers employed on these public
works. lie did not think that the mischief of taking them
away from the cultivation of the soil was so great
as had been represented, and as this was the season
for ploughing and sowing taking place, there was a most
favourable opportunity given by the increased agricultural
operations, for dec. easing the number of labourers employed
upon the roads. Perhaps the House would allow him to read
a portion of a letter, which had been placed in his hands that
morning. He would not give the writer's name but his statement
might be depended upon in every particular. (The Noble
Lord then read an extract from a letter to show that associa-
tions were being formed in Ireland for the purpose of opening
bread stores in Ireland, and that agricultural operations were
rapidly proceeding in many of the counties of Ireland. The
writer concluded by expressing his confidence that God in his
mercy would remove the calamity which at present afflicted
Ireland.) That letter was written in a spirit with which every
man should approach the subject. He (Lord John Russell)
thought that great credit was due to the Irish people for the
spirit of resignation and of patience with which they had seen
their fellow-men swept away in crowds by this great calamity,
and he did trust, therefore, that whatever hickerings they
might have in that House, they would endeavour nut to inflame
national animosities, but rather to cherish those virtues
which belonged to the Irish character, and to forgive or over-
look the faults which were common to humanity.—(Cheers.)
Mr. S. O'BRIEN trusted that the Noble Lord would do
them of the Irish national party—(Laughter)—the justice to
believe that in their proceedings they were not actuated by na
tional or party animosities. He. at the same time, wished to
Inform the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath that his sar-
casms had not been in any degree successful in ruffling his
temper—( Contisued laughter)—and he could assure the Hon.
Member that he had done snore for the cause of repeal—
( Laughter )—on that one evening than the party to which he
(Mr. O'Brien) belonged had effected by their whole proceed-
ines for many months. But still he did not feel that he was at
liberty to allow the challenge of the Hon. and Learned Mem-
ber to be silently passed over, that they who ha, agitated for
the repeal of the union had come over to England with bated
breath asking for succour. He could not allow of this ; and the
Honourable Member's speech but the more convinced
him of the necessity of domestic legislation. He believed
with the Honourable Member for Bath that property had
its duties as well as its rights. But he would tell the Hon.
Member that it was one thing to charge justly individuals,
but it was quite another thing to arraign the innocent. He
could not concede the meed of such unparalleled magnanimity
to the English people as the Hon. Member for Bath said their
conduct deserved. He thought the best course for the Go-
vernment to adopt, before they proceeded to pass a poor-law
for Ireland, would be to appoint a Committee to inquire into
the financial condition of the two countries. lie was perfectly
content to abide by the decision of such a Committee.
Mr. E. CALLAGHAN said that reference had been made
by the Hon. Member for Bath to a conversation which he had
had with two gentlemen, who were Roman Catholic priests.
He (Mr. Callaghan) also had an interview with those persons,
and he wished to inform the House that the object of their
coming to this country was to point out to the people of
England the condition of the suffering poor of Ireland, in
such a manner as they could not be supposed to know. Those
gentlemen had thought proper to make some remarks re-
specting the conduct of certain gentlemen, and complaining
that they did nothing to relieve the distresses of the people.
He knew those gentlemen himself, and could say of his own pei-
sonal knowledge, that no persons us Ireland had subscribed more
liberally than they had to t e funds raised for the relief ef the
distress of the country. It might be asked, what was the rea-
son of the attack of the lion. and Learned Member for Bath.

He did not wish to make any allusion to anything which oc-
curred in that House. He was one evening sitting near the
up to
, came
. ,
Well,"Well,"sa hidim
the and
Hon.
andel
Hon. and Learned Member for Bath, after one of his recent
attacksporam
h upon Irish Members, when the Hon. Member for
said,
" LearnedW
el
m
you hear what Barron said ofyou l, Roebuck,7 They
bme r
for
be at you."
Bath, "I have an answer for them I • ; will give them the In-
come-tax." He was surprised to hear that he was encouraged
in his onslaughts by a Friend—a friend of peace—the eneHon.
Mspeech ember for Durham. He supposed that the of this
ation
evening was the result of his determin • upon that ocea-
sion.—(Laughter.)
Lord G. BEN TINCK had listened with attention to the
speech of the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath, but he had
not heard one single argument against going into Committee
on this Bill. He, for one, thought the Landed Property Bill
Wit an excellent measure. He thought that no injustice
could be committed on this country if the principle and
interest of the money about to be advanced, were advanced
upon good security. He regretted that the amount about to
he advanced was not even larger than was proposed, for he felt
assured that any improvement in the land of the country would
tend to augment and increase the revenue. He thought that
if " The Million Act" had been carried out in a more liberal
mode than it had been done, moch good might have been
effected by a system of more liberal grants. Approving alto-
gether of the measure, and seeing no sense or wisdom in the
resolution proposed by the Hon. and Learned Member for
Bath, he should therefore vote in favour of the original reso •
lotion for going into Committee.
Mr. B. ESCOTT did not wonder at the Noble Lord the
Member for Lynn desiring
to spend more of the public money
after the defeat he had sustained on his Railway Bill for ad-
vancing 16,000,0001. of the Eng
lish money. A great deal of
tea had been heard in the House about "equal rights." No
person seemed inclined to dispute the justice of giving the
people of Ireland equal rights, but they should also reniemb,r
that if there were to be equal rights there must also be equal
burdens. The Hon. Member had said that this was not the
time for imposing equal burdens. He thought, however, that
the ,time had come when equal taxation should take place.
This question had not been met by any argument. The Pion.
Member for Kilkenny had said that he had some papers in his
pocket, or at home, or somewhere else, which could prove that
this was not the time to impose taxation. Why was the ques-
tion not gone into ? It had also been said that this was not the
proper time to enter into the question. He maintained that
this was the proper time to settle the account, and see
how each nation stood. If it was not the time now,

when was it to be ? Was it to be when Ireland
had swallowed up all the Engli.h oold, that the proper tone to
discus the que-tion was to come? Bow much longer would
they go on living upon English gold and lingli,h toil? fin
was hwil to see that the time would shortly come whet' the
English people would have an opportunity takitig the na itter
in their own hand., and of declaring their opmn.ns up,in the
conduct of the Gove•rnment.

M. All BYES did not think the present was a fitting
time to enter upon the discussion of a poor-law for Ireland. It
was a question they could not discuss at this m'iment
the present visitation had passed over, he believed they would
be in a position to enter not only upon the poor-law, but
the general question of Ireland. The grants to Ireland ought
not to be mixed up with those general questions; each should
be taken separately, and having disposed of present wants, they
might then look about them for ti.e best means of improving
the social and moral condition of the sister kingdom, and ef
warding off future calamities.
Mr. MUNTZ agreed with the principles laid down in the
speech of the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath, and had

the Hon. and Learned Member founded a substantial motion
upon it, he would certainly have given him his support. But
he did riot see what the Hon. and Learned Member's amend-
ment had to do with the question before them. The proposal
ot Government was not to make an absolute and unconditional
grant of money to Ireland, or he should have been the la,t
man to support it, but it was on the contrary, a
proposal to
lend with the prospect of future repayment, and in that view
he a-as prepared to give them his support. He quite agreed
with the Hon. and Learned Member, that both the property
and the income-tax ought to be applied to Ireland, and he
should be always ready to support such a proposal, no matter
who brought it forward, provided it was in a pacific rum"
Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD was decidedly opposed to
taking the capital of this country to meet the present distress
in Ireland without pledging himself, as an Irish landholder, to
use his utmost exertions to see it repaid. He was no advocate
for supporting the poor of Ireland at the expense of the
capital ot England, and the property of Ireland ought to be
bound to see this loan, for he viewed it in that light, repaid to
the last farthing —( Hear, hear.)
tl r. R. YORK E said this was not the time for entering upon
the topics opened up by the Honourable and Learned Member
for fiath, and as the wants of Ireland were exceedingly
pressing, he felt constrained to support Government on that
occasion.

Mr. JAMES should conscientiondy vote for the motion of
the lion. and Learned Member for Batb, and hoped the period
was not far distant when the principles enunciated by him
would be carried into effect. . _ _

The galleries were then cleared, and the House divided,
when there appeared—
For the original motion
For the amendment .
Maj.irity
The House then went into Committee.
Clauses 1,2, 3, and 4 were agreed to.
On clause Eve,

-95

Mr. G. HAMILTON moved that after the word "stones,"
in lieu of the following words, should be inserted, "planting
with young trees, erecting tile works for draining tiles, lime-
kilns, farm bridges, and gates, mills for the scutching and pre-
paration of flax, mills for the crushing and preparation of rape
linseed."

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER objected to
the amendment, as it would materially interfere with the ob-
jects of the 13111.

The Earl of LINCOLN opposed the amendment.
Mr. Vesey, Mr. Smith O'firien, Mr. Shaw, and Sir Denham
Norreys supported the amendment, and contended that by
adopting it, increased employment would be given to unskilled
labour.

Colonel RAWDON also supported the amendment, as it
would tend to encourage improvements in the buildings and
other works on the land, necessary for agricultural purposes.
Sir G. GREY opposed the amendment, as if the land
were once improved the other improvements would follow as a
necessary consequence.
After a few words from Mr. PHILIP lIOWARD,
Lord LINCOLN said if they legislated as Hon. Gentlemen
who opposed the clause wished, they would completely inter-
fere with private enterprise to which they would do well to
leave at least something, and instead of the expenditure of only
1,000,000/. being necessary, they would be compelled to expend
hundreds of millions. In his opinion the clause went far
enough.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER opposed the
amendment, on the ground that the clause as it stood would
effect all that was necessary.
Mr. HAMILTON withdrew his amendment, and the clause,
with corns slight alterations, was agreed to.
On Clause 6 being proposed,
Mr. GROGAN moved the insertion of the following words,
"by courtesy"—" or any person empowered by law to embank
and reclaim lands from the sea." He considered that without
this addition to the clause, companies or private per-
sons wishing to make such improvements at their
own expense, would not have that protection which
the outlay they would,be necessarily called upon to make should
entitle them, or on the other hand, be able to obtain aid from
the Government.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER opposed the
amendment, as he considered it would enti'le private corn-
panics, who were empowered under their Acts to borrow
money for their own purposes, to obtain money which by the
Bill was only intended to be lent to the proprietors of land.
The amendment was ultimately withdrawn, and the clause
was agreed to.
Clauses 7,8, 9, 10, 11, and 12, were then agreed to with-
out discussion.
After some slight discussion on clause 13,
Clauses 16, 17, and 18 were then agreed to.
On clause 19 being proposed,
Mr. M O'FERRALL objected that there were no sufficient
means of ascertaining the application of the monies to be ap-
plied under this Act. The officials were not made sufficiently
responsible.
sible.
CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could see
no feasible reason for objecting to the officials. To
whom were they to object? Why, to the commissioners of
public works. He had in his hand the Bill of last session,
which was introduced by the late Secretary for Ireland, on
which his Noble Friend had acted. He would not read the
clause to the end, but he thought he could not act more wisely
than by showing the foundation on which they had proceeded.
Mr. MONAHAN said that this question of time was to
be decided by the Coutt of Chancery ; but how could the
Lord Chancellor decide upon a matter like this so well as the
Commissioners of Public Works?

After a few words from the Earl of LINCOLN,

Mr. MORE O'FERRALL thought a question might arise
as to the remuneration to he given under the Board of Works.
Mr. SHAW understood that the appeal of the Court of
Chancery was only to be an extreme resort."
Mr. HINDLEY said, that in the English Bill they gave
the trustees an indemnity, but they had done no such thing in
this Bill, and that was the only means of guarding themselves
from the inconveniences of the Act.
Mr. HAMILTON, after referring to the 15th clause, sug-
gested that words should be inserted giving to the Commis-
sioners a power to inquire as to whether the public works
would put such an increased value on the land as would justify
the outlay.
Mr. M. O'FERR ALL objected to the introduction of the
clause altogether. There was a clause in the sth and 6th
Victoria, which did give the powers sought by this clause, but
there was nothing of the kind in the Drainage Act of last
year, and the only effect would be to enable the Commissioners
to appoint an assessor, at ten guineas a day, which no doubt
would give a very pleasant occupation to the lawyers.
After a few words in explanation from Sir G. Grey, the
Earl of Lincoln and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, show-
ing the verbal construction of the clause,
Mr. M. O'FERRALL intimated his intention, that unless an
alteration was made, he should move for the omission of the
clause.

After some further discussion the clause was agreed to.
Clauses 20, 21, and 22, with some verbal amendments, were
ikevvise agreed to.

Clauses 23, 24, and 25 were agreed to.
On clause 26 being proposed,
re-
Lord G. BENTINCK made some obs,rvations with
ference to the security which Government would have that the
monies advanced would be applied to the purposes of improving
the land.
that the Government would see that the first instalment was
properly applied before a second instalment would be grante
d
He had nu objection to alter the amount (3,10:.) in the clause
to SA/, explained
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER

The clause, as amended, was agreed to.
verbalC lauasmese2n7d,m2eB.,ts.29, 30, and 31, were agreed to after some

Upon clause 3`..! being proposed,
The Earl of LINCOLN thought that some limitation
should be put upon the extent of the powers granted to the
Commissioners.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQ
stood to say that great difficulty would arise from the addition of
any words to the clause as it then stood.
Lord G. BENTINCK said that in the performance of large
works contingencies might arise, and it was well to hav
tye some
words introduced into the clause to meet any difficul which
might arise. TIER was under-
After a few words from Mr. W. S. O'Brien, Mr. More
O'Ferrall, Lord Lincoln, Lord G. Bentinck, arid the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, in reply ; the clause, as it originally
stood, was agreed to.
Clauses 33 to 36 were then, after a few words from Mr.
Ilastri.ToN and the CHANCELLOR of EXCHEQUER, agreed to.
Clauses 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, and 42, were agreed to.
Clause 43 was agreed to.

On clause 44 being put,
the clause altogether,
Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN objected to
and
twoT CHANCELLORhveerbalam
endnteiaws.
would
i do f
be the a
I,
aE
oX,
tC
and the 32d clause
which he considered unjustliE Q ij
En 1)l.opo
impoliticsed
enactment.
The clause was then agreed to.
d to without n ositio
Clauses 45 to 53 were then agree pp - n.
EXCHEQUERall,itoughttobsearidaistehdatoinf
effected the arterial drainage were entitled to the same benefit
werelir .13
I'
omitted,l'i Et
the Bill c considered,
si
wouldder ed
13, e that
of f no i f
value.thi s
' d out the thorough drainage.
as those who carried
Mr M. O'Ferrall, Mr. Stewart,
and a conversation between •
Mr. M. O'FERRALL contendectittlhedattotheparties who
and Mr. Smith O'Brien,
the question we
the
The clauses were then passed.
Clauses 54 and 55 were also passed.
On clause 56 being proposed,
Rranisfedthaet
The CHANCreEtLoLbOe
Mr. M. O'FERRALL said that this clause imposed a penalty
of five pounds, and he would propose that an alteration of a
principle of the Bill.
fortnight's imprisonment, be made a part of the Bill. This
was understood to be allowed.
Clauses 57 and 58 were then passed.
Several other clauses were agreed to without discussion.
r
Lord Newry, Sir 11. Ferguson, and Mr Smith O'Brien se-
verally proposed clauses in order to give greater effect to the
provisions respecting drainage, but they were withdrawn on
the promise that the Government would give effect to their re-
commendations in some other form.
with Thteb
e remainingame amendments
were
The House then resumed.
POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE-
QUER then
to agreed
be reported
reported on Wed-
to, and the Bill,
Wed-
nesday next.
the consideration of the Poor Relief (Ireland) Bill
was adjourned.
REGISTERING BIRTHS (SCOTLAND) BILL—MAR-
RIAGE (SCOTLAND) BILL.
These Bills were read a second time.
The Gas Works Clauses Bill and the Waterworks Clauses
' Bill were also further considered in Committee.
GALWAY ELECTION.
Mr. W. S. O'BRIEN presented a petition, complaining of
the decision of the Examiners with respect to the
i ecognisances required to be entered into by certain peti-
tioners against the return of Mr. Monaghan for the town
of Galway, as a Member to serve in that House,
he begged the House to remember that the law of elections
had been changed. The parties had now Only fourteen days to
lodge their petitions, and considering the place was five hun-
dred miles from London, he thought, that every indulgence
ought to be shown to the petitioners The Courts of Law had
expressed great doubts as to the Terms of the Act as to whe-
ther the express:on, worth a certain sum, was intended to
imply that a petitioner was in the possession of five hundred
pounds, and therefore, he presumed, that the conditions of
the Act bad been substantially complied with. The motion

whi„h h, bad to nuk, wa., that time shouhl he given to the
petitioner= to amend their recognisances.

On the moti,a, boinL! read.

The ATTORNEY- GENERAL said that however in-
clioed the House 'nigh b • to grant. This indulgenee, it. had no
power what ever to .tier the form. By the 4th clu.e of 7 and
ti Vic,oria, chapter 10i, the decision of the examiner of re-
cogni ances was made fleal. Ti,e Xet Theo we .t on to direct
the w.y in which the decisions were to be arrived at, mid by
the 14th clause the principle was further carrie•i out. Tner~•
had been one case since the passing of the Reform
Bill, and that was in the case of Lord G. Paget.
who had petitioned the House when he had lost his election for
Caernarvon. At that time the magistrate who had acted in
the case had done so nut of his jurisdiction. That was a grave
question, but the circumstance- of the magistrate having so
acted out of his jurisdiction had created a difficulty under which
Lord G. Paget was made the victim.
Mr. APCAIITHY conceived that this was a case not con-
templated by the Act, and that the prayer of the petition ought
to be complied with.
Sir R. PEEL said that he was the person who had intro-
duced this Act,and it appeared that there were two tribunals esta-
blished by it. The first was that of the examiner of reeognizances,
and the other was that of a Select Committee of the House.
The decisions of both these tribunals was to be final and con-
clusive, and he conceived, therefore. th,.t this petition could
not be received. The terms of the Act were plain and
explicit, and they did not say that a man should
swear that he believed himself to be possessed of five hundred
pounds, for that would be by far too vague a direction, but that
tie was seised and possessed of five hundred pounds, and the
levy in a case of entreat was to be made upon the goods and
chapels of the petitioner. This was sufficiently plain, and
therefore he must advise the House not to re ceive this petition,
lest it should open the way to a dangerous innovation, which
might hereafter prove of serious inconvenience.
Mr. Al J. O'CONNELL thought that the better plan
would be decidedly to postpone the consideration of the matter
for at least twenty-four hours. He thought it matter of regret
that the examiner had come to this conclusion.

Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN replieo. They were now resting
upon a technicality for the purpose of screening one of their
officers.

The illation was then negatived without a division.
The House adjourned at Two o'clock.

PARLIAMENTARY BUSINESS.

(From the Votes and Proceeding, of the House of Commons.)
MONDAY, mArcir 8.

The undernamed Railway Bill was presented, read a first
time, and ordered to be read a second time :
Midland (Mangotsfield to Bath)—" to enable the Midland
Railway Company to construct a Railway from Mangotsfield
to Bath, and for other purposes connected with the Bristol
and Gloucester Line of the Midland Railway."
The following Railway Bills were read a second time, com-
mitted, and referred to the Committee of Selection :
Swansea 'Valley.
Vale of Neath.
South Wales.
Colchester, Stour Valley, Sudbury, and Halstead (Lease to
the Ipswich and Bury St. Edmund's Railway Company).
Harwich and Eastern Counties Junction Railway and Pier
from Harwich to the Eastern Union Railway at Ardleigb.
Blandford and Bruton.
Shrewsbury and Chester (Branches and Station).
Birmingham and Oxford Junction, and Birmingham, Wol-
verhampton, and Dudley Railways Amalgamation.
Great North of India.
Swansea and Amman Junction.
Edinburgh and Bathgate (Deviation and Amendment).
Leeds, Dewsbury, and Manchester (Ossett Branch and
Dewsbury and Morley Stations).
Midland (Cheltenham, Warwick, and Leamington Line).
Midland (Gloucester and Stonehouse Junction).
Ipswich and Bury St. Edmund's (Branch from Stowmarket
to Sudbury).
Dublin, Dundrum, and Rathfarnham (Extension to Ste-
phen's -green).

NOTICES GIVEN AT THE PRIVATE BILL-OFFICE.
The following Railway Bills are appointed to be read a
second time:—

FRIDAY, MARCH 12.

Manchester, Birmingham, and North S;fibrdshire Junction.
Enfield and Edmonton Extension.
Axholme (from the Leeds and Selby Railway to Gairs-
borough, with Branches).