The Sun.
London, England, 1847-04-23 00:00:00

waathy of the Noble Lord, worthy of the name he bears,
and tie believed that the career of the Noble Lord would
be yet the brightest illustration of that name.
Sir JOHN PAKINGTON desired to offer his thanks
to the Noble Lcrd (J. Russell) for his course upon
the present question, and to tender him his support.
There was no part of the Hon. Baronet's speech that he
dissented from so much as that portion which alleged
that the Government plan had been triumphantly re-
futed. So far from agreeing in this opinion, he thought
that the case of the Government had been most clearly
and conclusively maintained. Why had the speeches of
the Hon. Members for Fiesbury and Durham been so
42feeble ? Why, but because that they had no system of
Wtheir own to propose—no scheme or plan on which to
proceed. He considered the opening speech of the No-
ble Lord at the !lead of the Government had anticipated
every objection, and completely made out the necessity
of the proposed grant. Fortified, as that speech
had been by the able speeches of the Right
flonottrable Member for Edinburgh, and the Right
Hon. Baronet the Home Secretary, little remained for
him to say. He would only refer to one point. It was
that which proposed to leave out certain Dissenters from
participating in the grant. He could not agree with that
dir elusion. A‘s a member of the Church of England, and
also as a member of the National Society, he wished to deal
with the subject before them in a charitable spirit.
There were several most important institutions in the
country which would not be eligible for the grant. lie
might instance one of the most valuable establish-
ments in the country, at which the children of the
Churchmen and the Dissenters met together, and
were educated, in the most ha.rnionious manner. No
difficulty whatever had ever arisen on account of
religion. The establishment to which he referred was
King Edward's Grammar School at Birmingham. The
Hon. Member then read an extract from the rules under
which the school was managed.—The following was a
statement of the children of the different persuasions in
that school:—
Church of England 793
Independents
Wesleyans
Baptists

SoCinians
Lady lluntingdon's -
Jews 4
-Roman Catholics 4
Swedenborgians
Calvini,t3 1
Quakers ..
This large school was conducted in this harmonious
manner, lie confessed that he wished most earnestly
that he could confine the schools in such a manner as to
give religious education to the children, in accordance
with the principles of the Church of England ; but,
whatever might 1-Ps his own private opinion on the sub-
Le* he must allow some weight to the principles and
opaions of the other great sects and parties throughout
the country.—(llear, bear.) lie thought the ar
guments of her Maj,:sty's Government, in bringing
forward this nvesure, perfectly conclusive, and he
hoped that the attention of Government would be

shOrtly turned to the condition of the labourer, and to
the sanatory condition of the people of this country. He
must confess, however, that he was to some extent h
odis-
appointed, because her Majesty's Government had _
proceeded in a more comprehensive manner titan they
had done upon these subjects.—(Hear, hear.)
'Mr. HUMT' was anxious to say a few words upon this
subject, as he mutt say that from promises arid pledges
given by the Noble Lord the Member for the city of
London to his constituency he did expect to have seen a
Ilan more comprehensive than that introduced upon the
present occasion. The Noble feerti stated in the corn-
rnmeement of the present session that he was prepared
with a more extended plen of general education, and he
seas quite surprised that at the present time, when a Vi to
of 700,0001. wee tokTn f; .e. areny alone that
the paltry
.sum of leo,ooei only should he r.--qeired
to carry out the plan of the Goverement with respect
to the education of the couetry. He thought that
to people of England were willing to bear
:4 much larger sum for that purpose.—(Hear, hear.)
The Hon Member for Ediebeceli (!Ir. Meeetil ty) had
made a most eloquent, and a most forcible speech upon
the subject, and the arguments brought forward in that
s?eech were in his opinion perfectly unanewerehle, and
he most cordially agreed with the Right Hon. Gerele-
man in considering the present state of education in
Scotland as resulting frein the improved and general
system of education which prevailed in that country.—
(Hear, hear.) The system of establishing schools in
ever r parish of Scotland was a most desireable: and effi-
cient one, and one witch ho should be most happy to see
carried out in this country. He quite agreed with the
eq,nduee of the Prussian Government, in prosecuting the
education of the people, he believe with the Hight Hon.
Gentleman the Member for Edinburgh, that it was the
duty of every Government to do its utmost to
promote the education of the people, and he regretted
to hear any Hon. Member in that House say that it was
no the duty of the Government to endeavour to edu-
cate the people. He really thought that that was one of
the first, if not the first, duties of the State. He could
not reconcile the statement of the Hon. Member for
Derby, that the people of Scotland could most of them
write a good letter, and yet he went on to say that the
people were little better than " barbarians." He would
dismiss the subject from hie mind, and hurl back the
charge thus made upon his country, by saying that the
!etakements of the Hon. Member were perfectly incon-
sistent and irreconcileable. The Hon. Member then
proceeded to contrast the state of education in Prussia
and the United States, where a system of State edu-
cation
prevailed, with the state of education
the this country, where there did not exist
any general system of Government education.
The result of the analysis of crime in England fur the
lest three years, showed that there was a decrease of 32
per cent. in the countries where the people were best
educated. Mr. Neeson, who made out these tables, made

it evident that wherever there was crime there also was
ignorance, and the complete absence of the means of
education. To show that Mr. Laing never intended to
say that education did no good, he would refer to the ob-
servations he made in favour of the penny postage, of
which he was an anxious supporter. He agreed with
Mr. Laing that every measure ought to be sanctioned
which even indirectly promoted education. He was told
by the Noble Lord at the head of the Government, and
the Noble Lord at the head of the Woods and Forests,
that they were beset with difficulties in this measure,
and that they deplored they could not carry out a more
extensive system of education. He maintained that it
was the right of every one to have education, and it was
not a matter of toleration. A Catholic or a Dis-
senter was as good a man as a member of the
Church of Egland, and had as good a claim
to the advantage of State education. He
did not assent to the character of moral courage which
was so generally given to the Noble Lord.—(Hear,
hear.) On this question the Noble Lord displayed the
greatest cowardice. He was afraid to take the course
which hie judgment approved, and sculked in the most
shameful manner from the adoption of the right course.
He was geerng to answer the grounds on which Mr. Baines
proceeded in his opposition to the education scheme, but he
wild not allude to them now. His own opinion was, that
the dissenters and the members of the Church of England
ought to be put into the same boat and sent across the
channel. Ho thought an effort should he made to unite
all classes, and he did not doubt, joking from the
evidence they had from Holland and frorn Ireland, that
this was practica',lo. He thought if her Majesty's
Government agreed to appoint a Committee to enquire
what each party wanted, that means could be
devised for this purpose. They adoptel such
a proceeding with regard to the navigation-laws,
the poorelaws, and other questions, and he did
not doubt, but if this were done with regard to educa-
tion, a mode would be pointed out to reconcile all differ •
ences. When Holland was under subjection to France,
at the time of the French revolution, an attempt was
made by France to give education combined with reli-
giorto the people of Holland, and this attempt was met
by'M'.• e ministers of the various creeds in a spirit of
good will. The consequence was ;that the clergymen
of the different persuasions and the schoolmaster—each
in theist respective sphere—carried out the intentions
of the Government. The next qsea he had to bring
befopc them to show the prectic/bility of combining a
religions and secular education, was the national system
of education adopted in Ireland, and he would refer to
tab 9th report of the National Board, to show the per-
fect success which had attended their efforts. He
attributed much of the crime which existed in this
country to the religious differences which prevailed; and
those wiao fomented them could not lay their hands
• on their hearts and say, that they were doing their duty
to God and man; and if crime could be repressed by
education, as he thought it might in a great degree, it
would be cheaply purchased at 500,0001. a-year, instead
of 100,0001., or at almost any cost. He considered that
the state of things in this country required a greater
and more comprehensive measure than the one
proppsed, and if the Committee sought were granted he
&Dula be able to prove that a truly national system of
education might be carried out without any of the
' s which appeared to be involved in the Government
f"rt
• He also considered that there ought to be a
aster of Instruction in this country, assisted by a
board of persons selected from the most competent in
the community, to whom the task of superintending the
educatlOft of the people should be intrusted. It was on
These. rounds that he felt it his duty to vote for the
amendment of his Hon. Friend.
Sir W. JAMES said he should support the plan of the
Government, because he considered that the time had
come when it was the incumbent duty of the State to
promote the education of the people by every means in
its power. If they wanted evidencet of this necessity, it
was to be found in the fact ha4toout of every 100 of the
population, only from 30
could read, and that
nthoeteohilde
1,000,000 or 800,000
the poor were r,•-
ceiving no education at all, and weneroeflntg
profession.brought up
to
to ripine, as it were, 2S a
him that a great preeportion of the public appearedfeel
favour of the plan. Looking at the staten was
in
Church, of the different dissenting. denorni:Efit'On'e,
there was as large a mass of public ' feeling' denominations, •
in flavour of it as was ever given in support of any other
publie measure which had of late years engaged the at-
tention of that House. The Hon. Gentleman the Mem-
ber for Montrose was the only one in that House who
had advocated a compulsory system of education ; but
be did not agree with him, as he considered that the
plan of aiding the voluntary efforts of benevolent indi-
,vidnals was the best that could be adopted, and that a
compulsory system was foreign to the habits of the
people of this country.—(Hear, hear.) But where a
*ti inquired e inwearednisotribcet,nevsueclehnt asp
.ar
soonlsl i e
tcryo
It°r(i)cl thw"w hezereciu
aiil it by voluntary contributions, he thought that
the state should step forward and provide the necessary
funds.—(Hear, hear.) He was strongly opposed to a
secular system of education, as he considered that reli-
gion was an important pert of education ; yet he be-
lieved it to contain more of good than evil ; and, there-
fore, he would not deny that mode of education to those
Of his fellow-countrymea who were in favour of it, '