The Sun.
London, England, 1823-04-25 00:00:00

FRIDAY, APRIL 23, 1823.

or that his Majesty would place himself in an latitude
ready , to resist any such unjustifiable principle of iiiterfe.r-'
ence, should it be attempted to be acted upon ?, but
merely this, " Hii Majesty will not be a party:"- *tame a
conclusion bad put him in mind of a play he hid latailyeread,
in which two men, after a long discussion as to wait was
best to be done in an important conjuncture, agreed, that ,
it would be best to do nothing ; but not only bad his Majesty's
Ministers had done nothing,. but they hail said nothing, or at
least so little, that it was nothing to the purpose. With regard
to the questions put by France to the Allied Powers, it ap-
peared by a &watch of the Duke.of Wellington, dated Ve-
rona, October 29, furnished in the additional Papeta, that the
Noble Duke intended to call upon the Allies, to require an
explanation on the part of France, but it did not appear from
the dispatch of the Noble Duke, dated the next day, that he had
carried that intention into effect. The NobleaDuke having
returned from Verona, it appeared to have been determined
to send Lord Fitzroy Somerset to Madrid, and he now came
to the Memoratfduni of the Noble Duke. written upon that
occasion for .Lord Fitzroy Somerset--of this Memorandum
he really could say little, for to him it was unintelligible,-a
The Noble Duke hinted that if Spain would make some notia..
cessions, France, finding it elyensive to. keep up an .arnlfia
observation, would withdraw it. Burindidnot appear oh-the
face of the papers before the House that the Noble Duke had
! the smallest authority to make those offers. It was.po.esible
that he was not perfectly awargeof the principles of the British
' Constitution, for, if be had been, he certainly would never
have consented to become a party to such a transaction as to
propose to Spain to alter her Constitution at the desire of
France, and when the alternative was war. It also appeared
that the Noble Duke must have been as unacquainted with the
Constitution of Spain as with his own—for he had demanded
alterations in that Constitution, whereas no alterations could
be made in it by law, until a certain tune should arrive.
What he had demanded amounted therefore to the des.
traction of that Constitution, and he had asked it of men
who had sworn not to do it. He had asked of them, first
to violate the fundamental principle of their Constitution ;
next to violate their oath!, and then every principle of inter-
national law, and to do this in compliance with the desires of
an enemy ) demanded it at the point of the bayonet ? For-
tunately, the Spaniards knew their Constitution better than the
Noble Duke, and with the spirit and dignity belonging to their
national character, had absolutely refused to take into consider-
ation the alterations proposed. Thus the views of those who
wished insidiously to destroy their Constitution had failed. It
was extraordinary that this intrigue had been carried on at the
very time when al. de Villele declared in his letter to M.
de Lagarde, that France would not cease her precautionary
measures as long as Spaih was torn by dissentions. What was
more likely to make the , whole country of Spain a scene of
anarchy and discord than an attempt to change her Constitu.
tion in the face of a threatening enemy ? Mr. Canning admit-
ted in one of notes the right of France to use precautionary
measures to guard against the moral infection of political doc-
trines. He also seemed to feel the importance of this admis.
salon ; for the day after it was ensile he had written to Sir Ml-
ham A'Court that the Army of Observation formed the chief
obstacle to negociation. He would not notice the absurdity of
supposing that an Army of Observation could stop moralin.
feetion of any kind, as if principles could be barred out by
crossed bayonets. He would only say, that after France had
declared ' that she would not withdrew her army as long as
Spain should he torn by civilnlissentions, and after the triumphs
of Mina, by potting an end to those dissentions, had Afforded
her the means of thsealving her army with honour, Mr. Can-'
rung's admission hall suggested to her a ground of which she
had not originally thought, for maintaining her line of observe-
lion, Their Lordships Might observe In the Papers with what
uneXpeeted delight M. tie Chateaubriand seized upon that ad.
mission, and inuuediatcly asserted the principle that France
had a right to•tlefend herself against moral contagion. 31. de
Chateaubriand rightly thought that this concession once Made,
all was conceded to France. This was the case, and should het
artniea occupy Spain, and reach the frontiers of Portugal, the
same pretence suggested by Mr. Canning, would, justify a sinri.
Lit measure against our old Ally. Thewholecaneof`France miht
no ve feet an4e-jti stiff ed- • twinge at infield on by tile Bridal Mini-
ster. Nonaithstanding all this, however, fresh eittenipts were
still made to indoce aliain to alter her Conetitution, although
M. de Chateaubriend, in his Note of the 28d January, clearly
intimates! that the only concession which could induce France
to mop her military preparations, was the etincession,of the
whole Spanish Cenetitution. As Parliament, however, was to
meet oti the atiroflrebruttry, and it Weenie necessary to fir 6;
pare a case for its inspection, their Lordships Wonld find a De-
claration dated the 26th of January, in which the country ties
dined joining in the interference of the Allies against Spain.--
And even this was not a direct and powerful protest, but a con-
fidential leaer to our Minister. Was it possible that the Nfible
Earl opposite should have meant this, when he said that a so,
lemn protest had been made ? Mr. Canning had transmitted
this dispatch to Sir W. A'Court, without revoking that of the
20th of January, which directed him to endeavour to obtain
fresh concessions, so that that Minister must ha*etannd himself
embarrassed by', the opposite nature of the mai communica-
tions which he reteived. In the diepitch of the 26th of Jant.t
ary, Mr. Canning had made an admission • such as had never
been made before by a InitishMitilster. 'He had corned that
it was for the eafety, and at the &tire of France, that the lids
tish Government had insidiously endeavoured to obtain front
the Spanish nation similar terms to those demanded h France.
Ile bad also alforded to M. tie Chateaubriand a mode of extricat-
ing himself from the diffieulty In which the strung language
put in the Speech of the King of France, had placed him, by
suggesting that that Speech was open to two Interpretations, a
suggestion which M. de Chateaubriand immediately adopted.
If it were possible to doubt the intention of the French Govern,
meat to accept of no concession but that of the whole Spanish
Constitution, he Would reftt• their Lordships•oi the Note cons,
municateci to the King of Spain by M. de La Garde, which in
common with all the'other doctimenit up to that time, demand..
ed that the King should be re-retabliebed in absolute power be-
fore any alteration .should be made in the Constitution of Spain,
or in fact that the Family Compact should be restored in greater
vigour than evera-M. de Chateaubriand, however, bring desir-
ous that we should continue to negociate, as it served his conve,
nience and the purposes of the French Administration, said at
last, on 10th February, that if the Spanish Government would
create a second Chamber, France would suspend her military
operations. So that although the subject hail been discussed
since the 6th Jan., it was not till the 19th February that Sir
Wrn. A'Court was pal in possession of the terms of France.--
On the 31st of 3larch Mr. Canning then wrote a long letter, not
to the French Government, but to Sir C. Stuartein which he
went through' the whole latitory of thoee ne.gociations which had
terminated. The result of their faire was the connnencement
of the war between France and Spain. Could their Lordships
think that the English tioverninenehad dune any thing, or all
that it ought to have done? Gould they think that the honour
of this country had been duly supported ? Was it consistent
with that honour to endeavour • tesidiottily to obtain from
Spain the concetsiOns demanded by France ? Was, it ho-
nouruble for this country to induce men- to break their oatlei,
and to sacrifice every
.principle of a free Government and in.
ternatienal law, principles on which the existence of the Bri-
tish Constitution was founded ? Or was it consistent with the
interests of this country that France ehould make war upon
Spain ? Would our interests be tiirwartiedby the occupation of
the Spanish ports by French soldiers, or by the anniation of I
an army of observation on the frontiers cf Portngal ? Was it
honourable that lost, more in spirit than in wealth, through
the conduct of his Majesty's Ministers., we should tolerate a
war, which in our best tleys we should not have suffered.—
Would it be our interest, if France should fail, that all
those principles of distudon by Which she and the world
had so long been agitated, should be propagated anew
by the return of a defeated and diecontented army, and that
trance should be able to yield assistance to Germany, al-
ready in part disorganized, er to Italy; ready to welcome a
foreign army Hail we acted one principleit of international
law ? No, our negociations at Madrid hat violated every
principle of that law. Would it, therefore, he consistent with
the character and duty of their Lordships, seeing by the Pa-
pers on the table, that his Majesty's Ministers hail clone nothing,
to refuse to prononnce their opinion to that effect? Would it
be possible to cruet the professions of France after examining
her conduct since the first establishment of the Cordon Sant-
taire, and during her intrigues at Verona, to die onemeneee
-.g
meet of the nresent war? not the French Ministers, whilst'
they pretended to wish for peace; sent fleets to the West In.
dies ? It was imposaible dolt their lordships should not feel
that the continuance of prate depended, not our the ood faith
of France, but on expediency alone, and that she would ex-
tend that prinCiple to this country, as she bad done to Spain.
However' the question of peace or war was not one which,
pressed for immeditne decision, although be cenceivel ta
war was justifiable. He weld not eonclude without express.

jag the ardent wiSliets which he felt, and which he trusted their
'Lordships felt also, that in die just: and honourable conflict in
Which, they were engaged, the Spaniards might 'triumph.
'Under the most irritating provocations, Spain had displayed
a degree 'of forbearance which would have done honour to
an -Older Government. In the letter of Admiral Jabal, their
herd-ships would see in how many circumstances that for-
bearance had been displayed. He trusted that in the pre-
sent, Contest the Spanish nation would recollect that id.
though armies might be destroyed, a nati.in never could ;
and that also remembering its tbrmer sufferings and former
triumphs':. it would bravely, nobly, and successfully stand.
With respect to their Lordships, if they thought it consist.
cat with the honour of the country, not openly,- but insi-
diously, to undermine the liberties of other nations, they
would oppose the address which he was about to propose, and
might posterity have mercy upon their beads ! But if they
were desirous to see the Sovereign of their country resume
his legitimate station in Europe, not in the train of absolute
Despots, but at the head of constitutional Monarchs, they
would convey to-morrow to the foot. of the Throne, in lan-
guage such as became a constitutional Monarch and a free
people, the Address which he should now proeeeed to read.—
Me concluded by moving, that an Address be presented to his
Majesty, to offer their humble 'Thanks fur the communication
which he had been graciously pleased to make to the House,
of certain Papers relative to the late negoviations at Ye-
rona, Paris, and Madrid. To express their regret that
his Majesty's efforts to prevent war between France and
Spain had proved ineffectual; and, at the same time, to re-
present to his Majesty that, in their opinion, the course
taken by Ministers in the negotiations had not been such
as the occasion demanded, had not been such as to afford
just reason for hoping that the threatened war might be avert-
ed. To state to his Majesty that they viewed with indigna-
tion the-conduct of the French King, Who alike forgetful of
past circumstances and of the rights Of independent nations,
had proceeded to make an unprovoked war on a nation
friendly to Great Britain., the independence of which had been
at all times viewed as intimately connected with the well-being
of this country, and which was more especially so at the present
moment.. To acquaint his Majesty that that Holm most
highly disapproved of the conduct of his Majesty's Ministers
in suirgesting to Spain the propriety of making alterations in
her Constitution similar to those demanded by France, even
without having received any assurance from France that such
alterations, if made, would prevent that interference with the
internal concerns of the Spanish people which had been threat.
ened. To assure his Majesty that the success of those prin-
ciples, now maintained by France, would be, in the judgment
of that House, fatal to every constitutional principle of which
this country had heretofbre been the champion, and they there-
fore could not contemplate the contest now beginning but with
the most ardent wishes for the success of the Spanish nation
in the-arduous struggle ; and to state their opinion, that if a
more prompt, decisive, and unequivocal tone, had been taken
by this country in the' negociations, it might have prevented
the commencement of a war, in which they could not but op-
prebend that this country would be involved at ne remete
period, , and under circumstances of greater difficulty than
those with which it would have to contend, had a different
course been taken.

The Duke of Bucattionaat and the 'Earl of HATIROWIrr
rose at the same moment.. The Duke gave way, and
The Earl of HA lIRO Vl'll V addressed their Lordships, Re
expressed it to be the anions wish of Ministers to make them.
selves responsible for all that had been done by the Noble
Duke near him (the Duke of Wellington) at Verona. if
what had been transacted by.that Noble Duke wits contrary to
the honour and interests Of this country, let Ministers bear the
blame,-as he had only acted up to the letter and to the spirit
of his instructions. The Noble Lord, hi the echirse of his speech
and address, had gone the length of avowing it to be his de.
cided ()ninon, that it would be more for the interest and honour
of this country to be at war with Franie at this moment then to
be in a atate•of neatrality. His language came very nearly to
this, having, in the first instance Tweed a censtire:on ;Ministers,
which their conduct did not deserve. Ile told their lairdaliips,
that if ii more " prompt, decisive, anti unequivocal". tone had
been taken by this country, peace might have been preserved.
The question for their hardships' consideration. was thisL--W as
it better for this country to be at peace than to he :engsiged in a
new war? He *am of opinion that stronger measures could net
have been pursued by this government unless it had first made
up its mind to go to war in support of Spain if Prance could
not be dissuaded to adopt a ditnrent line of policy. To this
course it was necessary that they should ..make up their minds,
of acting agreeably to the views of the Noble Lord, they had
taken a " more prompt, decisive, and unequivocal tone,"
for to him it appeared that these words had no Meaning at
all if they did not mean that in the case supposed, it was
the duty of this country. to go to weir with France. But war,
he contended, ought only to be sanctioned by the govern-
ment of a State, from the conviction, under all the circum-
stances, that war was preferable to peace. If a doubt could
exist "on the subject, that doubt ought to induce theth to
decide for peace. The Noble Lord had said Much 'with
respect to the conduct of France, and one of the .accusit-
tions which he had preferred against thiS Oneeniment
Was, that it had been duped by the 'Ministers of France.—
He wished to know what meaning their Lordships attached to
these words ? Was he a (hive, if from his confidence in the
sincerity of the professions of an individual who was not sin.
sere, he adopted a course not difficult frOm that, which under
other circtimstances, regard for his 'men interest would have
dictated. If this Government wished to avoid war, hoW could
the French Government be said to have duped it in the only
sense which a nation could say to have been duped. We had
believed the French Ministers to be-sincere, and had deter.
mined not in the first instance to have recourse to arms; but
he contended that if they were nut sincere, the principles on
which we had regulated our conduct were right. The case was
one in which they were bound to use conciliatory means to the
utmost, however lAis their hopes of success might become. It
was satisfactory to him to know that this hart never been lost
sight of by those near him. Their wishes for peace 'had led
them to persevere in their nouns lo preserve it till the last.
Though the prospect had been clouded, they had been slow to
abandon the object in vine..-.
" For Love will hope where Reason will despair."
The question, as he had already said, for them to consider, was
this.-.did the interest or honour of the country require that we
should go to war for Spain. He begged that this might never
be lost sight of while their Loidships were considering these
negociatiene: The object of England being conciliation, I
menace could not have been used with propriety or adven.'
ttige,'nor could more be thine than had been done. It was seen
what the course of England on thitt qUestion had keen ever since
the spring of IWO. ltut, in consequence of the steps taken
by this country up to illtil, no hostile step had been taken
even so far as to "withdraw the Ministers of the'Allies from
Spain. \Vas it for this country to go to war on an abstract
qUestion*l--jor the Spanish Constitution ?—or for the litterties
of the Spanish people P , He could ins see that we were
hound' to do this ; bod he thought it would puzzle their Ler&
ships to decide at this moment what ought to be considered
fur the Spanish people. Divided as that country waa at pre-
sent, if England joined in the war she Would have to tight
great portion of the very people she desired to as.
atst. The state of the country alone farmed a tolerable strong
reason against our entering into a war in a cause Which did
not ImMediately affect our own interests. It was said it would
' be most improper for us to .suffer Spain to lose her indepead.
ance for the aggrandizement of another, country, and more
especially for the aggrantlikement of France. Rut hi the first
place it might be right to enquire whcthet Franee could be
thus aggrandized—whether she could gain from the conquestof
Spain additional means of injuring England, or of any other
i
Power ? If her armies triumphed n Spain, and half the Spa‘
nisi people were still opposed to her, no man would say this
would give her strength. The French could not be completely
soceesstul if the greater portion of the people were untavour.
I able to their enterprize. If , on the other hand, the Spanish
1 people were really in fatiour of the invaders of their country,
and were disposed to prefer, not the original Spanish Constitti-
tion, hut a constitution more monarchical than that of the pre-
I sent anarchy, on what grounds could we oppose their wrihes?
Much was' said of the dangers which would result to this mina.
I try from Spain being under the Controul of' France.. But what
very alarming danger had arisen from the state of things in the
course of the last century. It was also to be remembered that
countries did not remain the same because their geographical
situation and their names were unchanged. The former war,
on account of 'the Succeasion., did not break out till the spirit
of the country had been minted by the connection of James
the Second with Louis the. Fourteenth., But what was'Spain.
then ? Spain had a fine army, her finances were tolerably`.
' flourishing—were as well as those of most countries at that
period, and she had a navy which was equal to that of France;
Then it was deemed of importance to prevent the Crowns of

PRICE SEVEN PENCE.

the two countries from being worn by the :tame family.
war ended by establishing the Bourbon!, -but it oddly enough
happened to baffle all the politicians of that period, that she
next war saw France the idly of England against Spain. The
fears that hail been entertained on the .subject of the family
compact Was so far diminished, that when the war which ter-
minated in the .peace of 1753 was brought to a conclusion,
though that War had been conducted with unexampled success,
it was never required on the part of England that the family
compact should be diteSolved: Though England would ever
look with a jealous eye on the extension of French influence
over Spain, there was no small difference between Spain, .
such as she formerly was, with an ernuye-eavith money—with
a navy equal to that of France, and mistress of all the richest
Colonies in .the world ; and Spain, such as she Wit! nose, • a.
divided people, without arms, without money, withoht fleets;
and and without Colonies. He did not say that it was dettineble
that France and Spain should be connected by any ties which
might encourage them hereafter to unite against England,
but the danger of such an union now was very different
from what it had formerly been. We had a right to look
to our own interests, but when we formed our view of the
just rights of nations, other Powers which believed, prin-
ciples, which we did not approve, more congenial to the hap-
apiiannesss,
aosf hwe could haadveatsag:zialraaerigaulmit tolat.ctEnognlanthdei,r
were to take her station, by putting herself at die head
of the liberties of Europe, other Powers might think them-
selves justified by uniting against her. They might be dis- •
Posed to Make war on her now, when if they taew she bad
the means of drawing the sword, if necessary, they also knew -
that she desired reose after the exertions she had already
meths He argued at some length against the policy of a more
decisive tone being taken on the part of this country than had
been taken in the late negotiation. From the situation of the
two countries we could not have done more, unless we had
gone the length of insisting that France should dismiss her
Army of Observatioft. Hail this been done, it was probable.
that the causes. of Irritation subsisting between them would
sooner or later have terminated in war. We must then go
farther, and declare that France shall not be for one minute at:
war with Spain without Eltgland taking part against her. The
conseqtiente of this 'Mist be, that we should be called upon to
support our dignity, not, by a small addition to our. Navy to
defend our neutral rights, but we must be pr./Pared with power-
ful fleets to sweep the sea, and an army ready to act on the
Continent. The Noble Lord had declar'ed himself favourable
to war, but he was of opinion that by keeping out of it now, If
it hereafter became necessary for us to take part in it, we could
do so with tunny advantages on which we could not calculate at,
present. The Noble Lord had said Ministers ought not to trust
the as.urancesof France. Whether they were to be trusted cv
not, it was unpleasant to express distrust; but for this he
thought dint there was little intension where assurance only
promined that which was most consonant to the interests
of the party from whom they proceeded. lie knew not
why the assuraneert of France with respect to Portugal
ought to be discredited. If she failed in her attempt on Spain,
there was an end of all danger for Portugal, and if she suc-
ceeded, could the Noble Lord think that she would not have
enough to attend tO, without embroiling herself with t England
whom she knew to be engaged to protect her ally. Portugal
stood by no means in the same situation with respect to France
as Spain did. Portngal had not been concerned in any viola.
tion of the French territory, nor was it front Portugal that
thet moral contagion was to be apprehended which furnished a
pretext for the invasion of Spam. Unless Portugal provoked
attack, could it be expected that the other powers of Europe
would suffer her to be overrun ? In de.se of her being invadesi,
England would then stand forth, not as the friend of revolu-
lion, but as the defender of her ally. ' One point had been
strongly insisted on by the Noble Lord as a matter of charge
against Ministers. He had complained that Ministers had
vised Spain to make some changes in her that
while
she was threatened with intastori from France. Ile did nut
know that Ministers deemed reproof if, 'as' friends, they hittf
given adelee without demanding compliance as the price of
their friendship, or threatening hostilities in cese of refusal:
To take such (venom WU, he thoughts the duty of a friendly
state ; yet this the Noble Lord regarded as a violation of inter.:
national law. Did the Noble Lord think that the Contaithtion
of the Cortes could make Spain happy and proepetous ; or, did
he even think that, with such a Constitution, Spain ever could be
hapnv and prosperous? Ile not say that Its fattiteje glided the
hostile in terforence of n foreign power but he insisted that these
justified a friendly state in patnting out its iihwas tot that or for
any other eathitry. For the character of that coo,fitittiim he
might refer to It publitsition, which eertainlv slid net made itself
remarkable by vs general accordance wVii the views tlf his
Majesty's present M inistertn—the Edinburgh Revii3z.. ifs that
publication, after many admirable remarks, ft was stated, with
the exception of Cadiz, and part of the Army, the Constitu..,
thin met with general reprobation—f Here the Noble Earl
read a description of the Constitution from the Edinburgh lie'-
view, in which It was represented to be most objectionable in
many respect*, laid injurious or offensive to all clasees, with-
drawing advantages from some, and conferring, privileges on
others, which they neither understood nor desired.)--It' wt; were
now to go to war with France, and his Noble Friend near hint
(the Duke of Wellington) were again to command rut English
Army in Spain, he would find himself in a divided country, and
opposed by many of those who had supported him before. It
was fitting that he should. state that Ministers lout never sue-
gested to Spain the expediency of submitting to take a Comm-,
tution solely as the gift of the King. What had been suggested
both in the Mernorancluntof the. Noble Duke, merely indicated
that if certain changes were made in the Constitution, which
would be for the linppiness of the people of Spain, such an altee
ration would be agreeable to England. He, for his own part,
was at e loss to see how it could- be inconsistent with the ho-
nour and dignity of Spain to entertain such a proposition it
the instance of a friendly. Power, because unreasonebie sug.
gestions had been pressed upon her from another quarter.
When it was her intention to make alterations for her own
sake, he did not see that it was necessary for her to decline
doing so, because at that moment such alterations were desired
by France, It was not true Ministers had wished the Mem..
hers of the Spanish Government to violate their oaths, but it
Was proper to remark that a great difference of opinion ex,
isted with regard to the constitutional oath. Some conceived
the separation of the colonies from the Mother Country had lo
altered the Constitution, that the.oath was altogether void. All
that the English Government had wished was this; that the
Spanish Government should lean to that interpretation of the
oath which would be most for its own advantage, told stleh'S
recomsour Olt'"•ttliiethictintOltintirlye twit
erredelei
received dft it,t a
orl =tee atf"b)ymatievhhcrt
was Riven. It had been said, that if the principled. upon which
France now acted were suffered to go on without cheek, a
crusade might eventually be resolved upon to correct
stitution of country'. If the. Powers of the Continent could
ever desire tit improve mur system, as an Englishman lie shmild
be disposed to say, " Let them come and try." Ile concluded
by repenting, that if England should be eventually compelled
to draw the sword in this c.antest, she would do.. so at a lettere
period with greater advantage than at present. his trusted
the House, instead of 'passing the proposed censure on Mini-
sters, would, on the contrary, consider them entitled to support
ant taszprobation.
HOLLAND reminded the House, that the Noble Earl
had undertaken to explain the question really at issue on this
occasion ; he wished idso to draw their attention to the
hiseon-
eel facts which he had stated ; to his view of the policy of this
country, and to his strictures on the Sp/Mitch Censtit
He would contend that the question Which the Noble End had
-mentioned wart. not the one at issue; that his historical facts
were perverted; and that his strictures on the Spanish Con-
stitation originated in the
.grossest ignorance of, that Constitu-
tion.. If, instead of agreeing with the Atltlma ptoposed, as
be did, with every word of it, he had disapptuvedol it as it
Peer of Parliement, and as a *Member of that House, he
'should feel that his thanks were due to the Noble Lord for the
attempt which he had made to rescue their Lordships froin
that ignominy which must rest upon them if after :such pa.
ptrs had been laid before them, if after such a ennyinnotea-
uon of failure no step had been taken to merle their Lord-
mhips' feelings on the occasion.---(hear, hear !).--The hand.
lity and disappointment which its experiericed frost} . tbe per•
usal of these pai ,rs, ahnost took from him the power of ex-
pressing- his thoughts. Never had any Government eritered
side. They. hail a Secretary of State a man ofgreat Went—a
into negociation with a show of gremer ativantstW* on their
Noble Duke for their .-Niribasiatior, whose very name naNt nu-
ceasingly remind thole with whom to treat he bad, of t!, mom
glorious successes of his country—they hail wish diem th. o i.
nton of thellarliatnent of England, the, fcelingl of the People.
.ante, above all, they had with them a „ink Cause. Iltit o ng ne du
was wanting disposition on the part of thoseein office to pet
all in action with -feelings of d for the minimal ue regardhonour.
-p
-,Never was there en occasion in which they had such goo&

-grounile to -hope for 'success. During the last eighteen years 1
abe Noble Earl had been in the habit of coming down, for 10 of
them, with glowing representations in the .growing prosperity
of the country. In the next six or seven he had been-occu-
pied in casting off front himself and his colleagues the effects
vi this own improvidence, But affairs impreved again, and from
is description of the hie station which the country had attain..
cd, he made them all quite ravished with their situation. They
were led to believe that they were indeed the Lotds of mankind
—that nations attended at their nod—and that they were able
to " shake the spheres." But when the 'time arrived for the
trial of our greatness, then the tone wag changed, and the
-Noble Earl, like Timotheus, unwilling to risk any thing for
glory, declared for neutrality.
" War, he sung, is toil and trouble ;
Fame is but an empty, bubble; • ,
Take the good, the Gods provide thee,
ealeovely Thaiti sits beside thee."
Buteperhans he would find that lovely Thais did not,sid beside
tethathis cohnnistxess, Neutrality, would not prove .what
he:expected; and, perhaps, ere long, some illetimed liberty
taken with her might separate them for ever. Ile knew of no
greater instance of humiliation than that, exhibited by the Noble
Earl and hie colleagues in the late negociations.e l or the' con.
tinet.of the Bourbons, he could not undertake to describe it ;
but their conduct had been so well pictured by a great master
of the human heart of former times, that though the passage to
which he alluded was almost too long to quote, he would ven-
ture to repeat it to their Lordships. Ile would give the lines
ee he found them, and say,—
But shall it be, that yon,—that set the Crown
.Upon the head of this forgetful man;
And,for his sake, wear the detested blot
Of inurtProtis subornatiohi—shall it be,
That you a world of curses undergo; -
. Being the agents, or base seciend.means,
• The cords, the ladder, or the hangman rather 1—
0, pardon me, that 1 descend so low,
To chew the line, and the predicament, •
Wherein you range under this subtly i King.
Shall it, for shame, he spoken in theie days,
Or fill up chronicles in time to come,
'that men of your nobility anti power,
'gage them thus in an Unjust behalf ?
And shall it, in more shame be further spoken,
That you are fooled, discarded, and shook oft"
The course which the Noble Earl had taken to prove that him.
self and kis Colleagues had not been duped was singular. He
had compared their conduct to that of .4 man in love, and in
excuse for their folly—
"'Tat Love will hope where Reason would despair ;"
anti acting thus they proved themselves ready to become the
dupes of all mankind. Ile complained that the representations
made by this Government were rather dissuakions, founded on
the inexpediency of the meditated attack, than remonstrances
against. the principle contended for. The past conduct of this
country had encouraged France to take the course she now
pursued. Let them suppose Prince Metternich andahe Mini-
sters of the Continental Powers debating on the Note of the
late Marquis of Londonderry, was it net to be expected that
they would say, " Never mind their language; let us see how
they have acted. In the case Of Naples, though they disap-
proved, they suffered us to acts they stood at the door while
the murdet'was committing, and made no eflbrt to prevent the
consummation of our perfidy. There will be a little blustering
at first, but nothing more." I-le compared Ministers to sportsmen
who pursued the chase through by-lanes and obscure paths, who
if they got in at the death of the fox were considered clever fel-
lows, but who if they chanced to be thrown out from their sly
efforts to gain the credit of dexterity, were held up to merited
ridicule. Ile admitted that the Spanish Constitution contained
some things that were impolitic. But he (Lord Holland)
though he had corresponded with many people in Spain, till
in twine measure prevented by the tyranny of this man Fer-
dinand, and though he had spenttsome years of his life in that
country, he had never ventured, like the Czar of Muscovy
from his ices and snows, to assert, that that Constitution was
not fit for the habits of the country. The same Constitu-
tion, however, had been guaranteed by that. 'great personage
in Rat But that WO all done away by the declaration of
one of the Members of the Holy Alliance, that it was ne-
ceseary to approve of that Constitution then, but . it could
notlie adhered to now. In the year 111-t, the..rariperor of
Ruesia had been on what he might call liberal tack. Ile
was then about to give a constitution to Warsaw. On this
subject a correspondence took place, in which, the
.late Lord
Londonderry argued ;tattiest the Emeror taking posseseion of
Wartaw for welt purpoee ; remarked, that it' his Imperial
majesty was so anxious to make, in experiment of eleat tame
lie taut provincee of his own hi which the trial could lot nettle:
Tide love great offence. The Emperor imeneeiately mounted
his high herein Ills letters no more began with etion Mee,"
—awl mach was said or the feeliog excited- wneit he came to that
paseege in the Noble Ltietra letter. After that the Emperor
did not confine his labours on the subject oe iemetitathato to hie
veil, but like another Ago:nehmen he came before the world,
atul his intentions were no longer secret. White they were
" The Greeks had witneseed—all °weenie?, heitrelP
The Noble Lord proceeded to condemn the :seeps taken to in.
duce the Spaniards to alter their'Constitution, and declared if
the Spaniards manifested a strict, punctiliousi and even foolish
regard for their oaths, he should hail this as an auspicious omen,
as it proved a just reverence and regard for theme principles
on which the Constitution ought , to be founded. One great
objection made on the part of Russia to the Constitution, was
that the King could not marry Whom he pleiteed. . It might be
rema:ked by the way, that the King of England could not
marry a Catholic. Then came the remark from the Mike, that
the King could not perfbrin his functions, and then came Cita-
' teaubriand with the cry " that, the, Constitution would not al-
low his Majesty to visit watering-places." lie wished to know
'whether it was intended to introduce an article. nto the Consti.
tution to enable the King to marry, to pale= lds functions,
and go to watering-places ? Ile noeiceti±ehe other objec.
.dons made to the Constitution, and, adverting to the ne.
gociatione, applauded the dignity, and pathos of the letter
of Monsieur San Miguel, which he thonght anight he ad.
vantageously compared with the produeteons of our Se-
cretary of State, rind those of 31. Chateaubriand. The
Noble Lord then eulogised the conduct of the patriot Arguelles,
who, having
.quitted his studies to labour for the restoration
of his Sovereign, had been doomed to exile tinder a burn-
ing sun by that Soveteign. Brought back by no acts'of mercy
on the part of the King, but by that event which some persons
had the heart to deplore, he had ever since. been occupied to
pour conciliation into the minds of hie countrymen. The
then'proceeded to argue, that the question Dow
before the House was not the question of war or peace.—
They declared they would not have war, but he would
ask them if they were certain that 'they had peace ? Ile
would reek if • this had not become very doubtful since the
Papers had been laid on their table ? Ile would ask it' they
could question the statement of a Snish vessel having been
caphired by a French ship in the West Indies, pursuant to
• orders front home ? War was thus commenced elsewhere be-
fore it began in Europe, anti while still negocieting, French
ships were dispatched to the West Indies. Did he not know
that the Insurance Ofliees would he called upon to lay for
that vetted he had mentioned? The Noble Earl when asked
a few evenings before if he believed no treaty existed between
Xraticc and Russia, binding the latter to support the former,
he answertal that he knew of none. Would the Noble Lord
now stand up in his place, and say that he believed no treaty
had been entered into between France and Russia for carrying
into effect the measures decided upon it at Verona? Did not
the Noble Earl see clouds and storms gathering around hint P
-The Noble Lord had said, he saw no grounds for going to war
on account of Portugal. Ile however would contend that Por-
tugal was 43 liable to attack 113 Spain, wed' might be attacked
on the same principle, and our Note of preserving -peace must
therefore rest oe the notable guarantee of the assurances of a
Prince of the House of Bourbon, and on the moderation of
French army in the hour of vietory. He argued that Eng-
land heraelf might be attacked with at good reason, and re-
marked, that they now heard no more trout the other side of the
House of " the balance of power in Europe," which it had
'`formerly been the pride of this Country to maintain. He next
,contradicted the Noble Earn' statement of. his historical recut.
Be. concluded by lementing the magaitude of the failure to be
remarked on the part of Ministers, and the proofe afforded that
.this wax occasioned by errors of. judgment, aud want of .capa-
city. Ile deeply regretted that aglorious opportunity had beets
:Most on the part of tide country for taking its proper station to
defend the weak against the strong ; to stand up as the sham-
,pion against oppreesion, and the advocate for civil and religious
liberty ail over the world.
Lord GRENVILLE was satisfied that his Majesty's Minis-
ters, in the lute negociations, had taken that course which was
best fitted to maintain the honour, and further the best interests
•aef this country. He ably defended the policy which they had
preferred, and moved an amendment, declaring the conduct of
Mittieters in the late negociation to meet with the entire con-
currence and approbation of that Howie, as it embodied the
_judicious application of thete principles which it had been the
policy of this country to maintain ; to acknowledge with grad-
titude the unceasing efforts of his Majesty to prevent war be-
tween France and Spin, to rejoice that his Majesty was no
inlay to war which did not appear to them necessary for the
honour and interests of England, but at the same time assur-
ing hint of their ready support whenever a war should be ne-
emery to maintain the dignity of' the Crown and the rights and
just interests of the nation.
The Duke of BUCKINGHAM not-only.objected to the
Address, but to the arguments in favour of it. It seemed to
.:be the object of the two Noble Earls to go to war with France
on account of Spain, and if the Address were carried that night,
it would be proper to put the army anti navy on an efficient
rfaoting for active service to-morrow. lie defended the .con..

duet pursued by Government in the late negociationa. At Ve-
rona, the path to be pursued by England was a straight for-
ward one. Few instructions were wanted for the guidance of
his Ndblc and Illustrious Friend, who represented this coml.;
try at the Congress. It was only necessarrfor us,' nanding'on
that high eminence to which former glorious eultions had
raised us to warn other nations against a renewal ar,
lie-
dare it to be the intention of tins country to remain' neutral,

but at the same time tolnake known our Jinn determinatin to I
sustain the character, and assert, under all circumstances, the
honour and true interests of England. Claiming the right to
forth an opinion of the Spanish revulntion
_for purselyto, we.
had no power to deny France the right of doing the same,—
How she had used that discretion .was perfectly a distinct
consideration. The Noble Duke, adverting to -the ergoments respecting the balance of 'power, cited the opinion
of an illustrious Duke who had tbrmerly discussed the sub-
ject. The importance to be attached- to that political ba.
lance must depend on the actual state of Europe. The
balance of power at the present day had a different meaning
front that it bore in the reign of Louis XIV. In that reign
Spain and the Indies were on the scale. The same words might
mean one thing one day and another at a different period. :He
could not agree with those who thought there was cause. of
war. Neutrality was the best course this country could pur-
sue. What could be the object of war ? Would a war insure
the balance of power? What would become of Hanover ?
Would it secure the East from falling into the hands of Rus-
sia? He felt neutrality was necessary, and his prayer was for
the preservation of peace ; but if the country was forced into
a war, he prayed to God, notwithstanding he might meet with
obloquy, that if we were to he forced to take the field, it might
not be to support the principles then prevalent in Spain. Ile
could not forget that the spirit of revolution still existed: to un-
dermine and reduce all that was regular in the moral establish-

tents of society. For thirty yea.; resolution had called on
this country to spill her blood, which had flowed like wateree-
The Noble Duke expressed a hope that other countries might
not be called Upon to war in support of revolutionary principles:
The Duke of SUSSEX rose to return thanka for the notice a
Noble Duke had taken of him, and to gay his opinion on the
balance of power, difited from that expressed by the Noble
Duke. His Royal Highness had discussed the subject on dif-
ferent principles. Be was 'not desirous. of interrupting mho-
portant debate by further observation on that point.
Lord KING said, the Ministers lout been in fool:;' paradise.
Ile read the papers with grief and astonishment. ' They dis-
played nothing bia cold-bear;ed apathy in the cause of Spain
and liberty. They must go back to. the reign of Charles the
Second, before they could discover the base policy. which
marked the late negocintions. They mnst return to the nego-
tiation when the Crown of Spain wanted, the Spanish Nether-
land—to the reign of Louis XIV., wheri base Ministers had
nothing in view but the legitiMacy of Sovereigns. The settle-
ment of peace at Paris was the sturendir of our best interests
in Europe, and the Government were now obliged to acknow,
ledge that they were notable to defend themselves and others
against despotism.
Earl ABERD.EEN could not join in the unqualified cen-
sure which the Noble Lord had thrown on the Government.
His opinion was that they did not deserve the accusations which
had been made. The House should, not forget that his Ma.
jesty's Government had never believed that France would
invade Spain until after the King's Speech had removed all
doubt; but that circumstance was of no importance with re.
specs to the course of the negociation. The Noble Duke as.
sorted all the principles of liter discussion. The Noble Duke
said, " You are alarmed at the dangers which the Spanish Re-
volution are likely to produce, but I will shew you that your
hostility will, only increase those dangers." The Noble Lords
said, the language used by the Noble Duke should have been
more lofty. He could not avoid feeling that menacing pan.
guage, on the part of England, would have made the war of
the French King more popular, and we should have been re.
duced to this prediment —if we had not followed it up by
hostile measures, we should have been a degraded nation.—
If we had gone to war, what would have been the situation of
the country ? We should have engaged in a war whilst the
country was recovering front the effect of along conflict. He
took the liberty of praising the conduct of that Illustrious Person
who, like his predecessor, the Duke of Marlborough, had acted
with the greatest complacency and temper apon a diplomatic,
subject, where irritation was net likely to produce any pub-
lic good. With respect to the alteration of the Spanish
Constitution, the state of Spain was considered, and, the re.
commendation was given in the most friendly manner. The
Noble Earl cited the dispatch of Mr. Canning on the subject of .
modification, lithe Ileum! viewed the subject, with fairness,
it would not be made the ground of accusation. The principle
of strict neutrality was the best course they could adopt. In,
the correspondence with Sir W. A'Court, it was admitted that
the friendship and union of England with 'other Powers could
maim interrupted. Looking back to questions agitated with-
in those walls during the last 20 years, he could sax, be never
in his life gave a more cot!q:icsitioua vote than he Nomad give
against the motion of the Noble Lord.
The Earl of DARNLEY said, the question at issue was,
whether his Majesty's Ministers had adopted: the beat course
for preserving peace. lie believed the Noble Doke had acted
in strict conformity with his Instructions. Ile did not doubt
that the Noble Duke had been actuated by the same-honourable
feeling which distinguished his illustrious predecessor, the'Duke
of Marlborough. After the fruity Of his great victories; he was
intitled to use high language, and it must have been painful not
to stand In the highest position. lie really felt that menace
might have been resorted to in order to prevent the military oc-
cupation of Spain and Portugal by France, which was at all
times to be dreaded by this country. He should ,support the
motion on the ground that the line of policy pursued could, not
I preserve peace.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said he could not suffer the
debate to come to a conclusion without making a few observa-
tions. lie was obliged to the Noble Lord who had expressed
a hope that he should be able to make out, his defence: He
stood before the House not only as the Negociator at Verona
but as a Member of the Cabinet. He called on the Noble Lords
to say explicitly whether they would have taken.a neutial line
or a line of war. The Noble Lords had not declared whe.
'ther they would have declared for war or peace. The Govern-
Ment had determined on neutrality, and he went to Verona to
preserve the line of neutrality. On the question of neutrality,
be went into conference with the Ministers of other Govern-
'ltems. lie negotiated for neutrality under the instructions
he received, and upon that alone the Noble Duke said he might
rest his case. He went to Verona, and in the :Congress of
Sovereigns and their Ministers he used the arguments which he
thought best for the preservation of the peaceof Europe. He
had been blamed for not having acted on a principle laid
down byl the Marquis of Londonderry In 1021. In point
of fact, the principle found its the paper left by Lord Lon-
donderry, never wits admitted by.the Allied Sovereigns. Ili
was not sent to insist on that principle in- that paper, but to
withstand all interference in the affairs of Spain. The Noble
Duke added, that he. endeavoured' to persuade the Ministers
from his knowledge of Spain, to refrain from taking that
course. It was said he had been duped. He, no doubt, fore.
saw the possibility of' war, but was he to go and insult the So.
verigns and their Ministers by putting forth topics on which he
knew there was a diflierence of opinion. He was thankt'ul to
the Noble Lords for the palm they had taken to impress upon
him the obligation he was under of coining fairly out of the in-
vestigation. He should; however, have felt' more obliged to
them if they had taken less pains to pervert his conduct, and
apply meanings which they knew, did not belong to it. They
had said, after lie received instructions front Mr. Canning to
declare that his Majesty would not be a party to any inter,
ference in the affairs of Spain, he disobeyed that instruction:
Ile might ask whether, at the thine he delivered his Note of
the 30th of October, there was any endeavour by force to
menace or to interfere with Spain. When there was such An
intention he made a remonstrance, and declared his Majesty's
intention not to be a party to hUCII interference. The Noble
Duke reed the remonstrance, end said . he considered him-
self acquitted, because his ajesty's Government approved
of the declaration. Ile was then bleMed fir stating that the
French Government was justified in forming an army of ob-
servation. Whit could say when there was a civil war on the
opposite frontier that it was not competent for France to m-
umble an army on her own frontier. That he should be found
in fault for having admitted a point upon which there could
really be no difference of 'opinion was most surprising. With
respect to the language held out at Verona, he must say
that he considered it more, manly, as the representative of
his Sovereign to hold firm but respectful language. His re-
preeentations were made as firm and confident as possible.
If the Noble Lords required; they would find that so far
from there being any want of firmness, it would appear that
he went as far as he could: go. On the subject of media.
tom, his opinion founded upon a knowledge of Spain was,
that some conciliatory measure was necessary to facilitate
the peace of Spain. Modification' in the Constitution was
proposed, but the object he had, in view was detailed is the
Papers. He was ready to rest his case on the merits. He
would rely on the Papers, and his hope was that the Noble
Lords would not adopt the opinions of others, but look at the
Papers, and fairly consider that the object he had in view was
to traduce the Spanish people •to make a change for their own
benefit. The House, by taking a calm, unbiassed view of the
whole case, could only be able to say, whether there was any
thing inconsistent in his conduct. The Noble Duke wished to
rest his case on the statement to be found in the Papers.
Earl GRE V rose to offer stone observations, although he des.
paired of being able to counteract the effect of policy adopted
by his Majesty's Ministers. The Noble Duke had asked, did
they mean Peace, or did they mean War ? To that distinct Iwo.
position the Noble Duke said no one had been able to answer.
He would state distinctly his answer to the proposition. lie did
not feel, with the Noble Duke, that the balance of power was

any thing or nothing. It was every thing when Spain was Sub-
ject to France. Ile would tell him, when the interest of this
country was overcooked, the country was in danger. A Mi-
nister should he prepared to meet that danger by representa-
tion under the desire that justice might be'done ; but if zepre-
sentation produced no effect,. it was the duty of Government
to support stiong language with all the strength God had given
this country., That answer would perhaps satisfy the Noble
. Before he proceeded to what he considered the bad
policy of the ,country, he diselainied all misrepresentation.—
With pain he saw the name of the Noble Duke tarnished in
,the, negeciation.. It was, however, far from his intention to.
inace any charge against the Noble Duke,. wilo had followed
instructions. The odium would rest on his Majesty's Mini-
sters.: What he lamented was, that the Noble Duke should
have been made tO•folkiwinstructions which were net calcu-
lated to support the interest of the country. He then wished
to discuss the principle on which this cold negociation.had ter-
minatede Who could hear without surprise, that where there
was ari.evideat intention to make Spain subject to France, his
Majesty* .Ministers were, determined to preserve strict neu-
trality. After' all he had heard on the balance of power, and
the ascendancy of England. it really was surprising to hear
the .Noble Lords and Ministers say, " Come what may,
though the scheme of Louis the Fourteenth be again at-
tempted Great Britain will have nothing to do with the
war." 'lt was a painful consideration that the Noble Duke of
all men should have been made to: go with such instructions
to Verona. The declarations that we denied the Power to in
in the affairs of Spain, was accompanied by apology,
which never should have been made. The Noble Duke
said, he was not prepared to insult the Sovereigns and
their. Ministers by the introduction of questions on. which
he knew there wits a difference of opinion. lle could not
complain of respectful conduct., but he complained that par-
tiality, that favour, had been shewn to the cause of France.
The Noble Duke said there could be no difference of opinion
on the right of France to establish an Army of Observation. If
that army was stationed there to watch over anti foment insur.
tection raised by France herself in Spain, he, for 'one, should
consider it a measure disgracdul to any civilized State. But
in the speech of the King of France, whose word was so sacred,
the olkiect of the cordon 4.lo4tajre was declared not for offensive
operations. It was known' at. the very tithe, the ltegency.q
I irgel was sanctioned by that very army, and one of its Mem-
bers received by the Minister. at Paris. If his Majesty's Go-
vernment suit not know the fact why did they not know it
If this was true did it not make a man's blood rise with indig-
nation when he found a British Minister admitting the necessity
far that army of observation. Ireland was disturbed ; and if a
fleet was formed at Ferrol or Corunna, to keep up a correspon.
dente with the disturbed districts of Ireland, would the Noble
Duke say such interference , was to be justified ? M. Villele,
taking advantage of the admission of the Noble Duke, had
declared they were justified in keeping a force on the fron.
tier. No British Minister ought to have recognized for.
a moment the existence of that army. The Noble
Duke complained of misrepresentation, and declared that
he was employed to mauttain neutrality. If so, why
did a British Minister employ himself in advancing the in.
terest of Frew by recommending concessions to her ; con-
cessions, however, had they been made, would not have pre.
vented military concessions. The proposition made by the
Noble Duke was one the country should not have.made. Me.
'diation did not require the proposition. It was calling for
submission front Spain to France, a concession she could not
mike on any principle of mediation. M. de Clutteaubriand,
with respect to that proposition, had shewn himself a bad
writer of State Papers. The Noble Earl was ready to sup-
port peace, if peace could. be preserved. At a moment
when the . interests of the country were about to recover,
it was the duty of Government to preserve Peace, but
that interest must be opposed if the safety of the country re-
•quired it.' What was the . principle pursued by the French
Government! Was it not odious and unjust—the claim of a

right to interfere in the affeirs of -a Foreign State—it claim-0
the most dangerous description ? He was an advocate for Par.
liamentary Reform ; but if a foreign Power was to say the
House of Commons is corrupt, they do not speak the send-
nients of the people, we will see there shall be a change—.
front that moment he would alter his opinion,. and sheiF the
last drop of blood rather than tidier foreign interference.—
It might be said, France and Spain were not remote coun-
tries,, but could that justify the principle upon which she
had acted ? - Why Should the triumph of France be prefered
to the establishment of a free constitution in Spain? What
Englishman could avoid feeling pain at finding this coon.
try support France in such a design rather than Spain ?-.-
'lt might be said we could not use menace. Ile should say, if
war was the alternatiitc,Tetthe country go, to war.' His sincere,
belief was, that war would-net have been the alternative had Mi-
nisters done their duty'; itavould haVe been a secure and ho-
nourable peace. IL; then eapoe. to the question, as taaviutt
would have' been the (Unger of' war. If war had taken place,
it would at least have secured us the .friendship of allitidepend-
ent StateS. The prospect would' have been cheering. Spein
would have been seen fortning a Constitution upon pritoptes
which -Mimi insure ultimate success. We should:have been
united in commercial interests. If war had taken place it
would 'have been founded onprificiples of honour, and carried
on with tbe wadies of not .only all independent states, but the
wisbes of the people of France themselves. It was not possible to
say whether the war would remain popular in France or not;
butFhe did not believe that a contest, undertaken on principles
of justice and moderation, could be unpopular. It was a
strange thing to hear that shrinking from war could preserve
peace.- France was advancing.to compel the people: to restore
the King ef Spain. If they were to succeed, would it not
excite displeasure in that country ? France must then keep
an • rmy ur Spain, as Austria did in Naples.: That must be
the• effect if' France was successful. That she may not be
successful, exclaimed 'the . Noble Earl, God of his infinite
mercy grant I The war was. backed by the Holy Alliance,
'who Said it was a struggle for peace, but it was the peace of
the tomb, the silence of the grave. When this country. gave
up liberty, their benevolent intentions would be carried into
effect. 'Phe invasion of Spain Was indeed one of the most
formidable dangers which ever threatened this country, even in
the time of Napoleon ; could the House see with indifference
the prospect of Russia supporting France ? Did they reflect
upon the consequence which Might arise from the system of
defence which Spain had adopted ? The object of Spain was to
follow the example of her invaders, and endeavour to excite
rebellion, in France. against her Ministers. If a revolution in
France should again set Europe in a flame, and the Monarch.
of Russia should march his forces again to what he called the
Western Provinces, could this country keep out of war ? The
Noble Earl concluded by giving his conscientious vote for the
motion.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, he was willing to allow,
that in the.course of. what had fallen *Om the Noble. Earl, he
hail given their Lordships this advantage—.he had spoken more
distinctly than the other Noble Lords who had preceded hint
upon that side of the question, as to the cmiu'se which they
thought his Alajesty's Government ought to have pursued. lie
never was so much surprised as when he came down to the
House that night, and found • the Noble Lord who introduced
the question adopting such a course, and propOsing such an
Address as was now in the hands of their Speaker to be laid on
the Woolsack. To hint that A ddreas was perfectly unintelligible.
He knew not what it meant ; ;and it was nupossMle to say whe-
ther it was for peace or war. From what had passed before, he
had indeed understood that the Noble Lord wail for war ; hut
now he was afraid to declare it in the proptised address.—
( Hear, hear 1)—Ile was ready to admit that the vhole tendency
and meaning of the Noble Earl's speech who spoke last, was
this--" You aught to have gone to war ratter than. suffer
France to invade Spain. This ought to have bepn the doctrine
held at Verona—title language.. ought to have been firmly spit
decisively spoken fo France.' - This was the only ground uptin
which the conduct of Government could bp impugned, and dila
was what the Nohle Lord Ought to have emboa
iied in his Ad-
dress. But ins t -of that open and manly course', forthe sake
way --p of catching a fe y votes--(Hear hear !)...--he had shirked
tltl
and blinked. the . .ly question which wasreally at issue.—
(CI lee ri.)—The ihstructions given to his Noble Friend, the Duke
of Wellington,Were, that to any interference with Spain, come
what may, his Majesty would not be a party. This was the re-
sult of the deliberations of the Cabinet upon what he readily ad-
mitted was one tifthe greatest questions upon which a Govern-
ment could ever be called upon to decide. They decided for
neutrality, and open, that decision all, their Subsequent conduct
hung ; that waathq.key to all their acts throughout the negocia.
dons which .ensued; and upon this Aeon arose the greatest
'
misconceptions of those who dissenteg from the propriety of
that conduct.
The., said , " Oh ! you'rt for neutrality, but yet
you might act as if you intended war." 3 Whether they deter-
mined
*lightly or not in choosing neutral4y, would be a question
for after inquiry; hut having adopt* neutrality, he con-
tended that the only true course was to useiill the means in
their power to avoid war. Was peace, then, best to be a-
tained by a high and haughty tone towards other Powers, or by
that frank declaration and reference to the true principles of
the question which they had thought proper to make ? His
Noble Friend had said truly, that they had no occasion to put,
forward principles—they
had Only to refer to them. The true
principles for width they contended hail already been put for
ward in ino and 1821. Upon
one occasion they were ad-
vanced in opposition to different principles laid down by other
Powers. The Note of Viscount Castlereagh, of 1821, was in an-
swer to a Circular previously
issued by the Allied Governments.
Throughout all
approval of the conduct of Spain.
opposition to the conduct a France, and consequently their
the recent tie they had expressed their
They had all along de.
clared their opinion upon the injustice of her conduct, upon the
falsehood of the pimmples she was acting upon, and upon the
danger likely to result from her acts. -It had, indeed, been
confessed by the Government of Spain herself, that we had

done as much for her as she could expect us to do at Verona.—
Where, therefore, was the impropriety of recommending to
her as friends and supporters a course which would be calcu-
lated to preserve the peace of the world, consisting of those
alterations whicirshe might think necessary in her Constitu-
tion ? To those• who thought they ought to have adopted a
menace upon' the chance of preventing war, he would say,
that this was not a case in which such a course was
Practicable. He could understand the advantage of using
a menace with luch a view, when the -ipestion in dispute
had a distinct and single object. If, in the case of France
seizing Minorca, we were to interfere and say, that unless it
Were given up to'Spain;- we Wteald 'declare war—then he could
understand that, upon the chance of her acceding to'our re-
quest, war might be avoided. But if they had said at Verona,
" If you invade Spain we will declare war," no such distinct
result could have been obtained : because France might have
conceded the point tit :invasion, but still have kept up her
army of observation, which we had no right to oppose; and
thus all the evils would have remained with 'perhaps increased
irritation and hostile feeling between the two countries ; and
the only alteration that could have been effected was the
delay of actual hoStilities for a few weeks or months. This
was not, then, a case where menace could have been used
with even a chance of advantage. The establishment of an
Army of Observation might have been, abused, and made
instrumental to improper objects, yet when Spain was the
theatre of a civil war, and this the Noble Earl had entirely
left out of view' in the whole of his speech ; the maintenance I
of such an army might be justifiable, and in some cases even
neccessary for the protection of the people of France; parti-
cularly if accompanied by a frank avowal to the Spanish Go-
verninent of the intentions of the French. But this part of the
subject he was quite content to rest upon the Papers before
the House. The real question for their Lordships to de-
cide was whether the policy of this Government had been
right or wrong in not going to war with France.. But he-
fore.vroceeding to this, there was some general topics to which.
theeNohle Earl had resorted that required his notice. The
Noble Earl said, that he (Lord Liverpool) had . formerly been
prodigal of the military exertions of the'country. He, too, bud
a memory upon that subject, In 1808, he considered the situa-
tion of Europe to have been changed so as to require the greatest,
possible etthroe on the part of this country. He was
then is his Majesty's Councils, and he thoughtit rightto recom-
mend that Spain and Portugal should be made the theatre of
war. And he remembered that the Noble Earl then opposed
our making war with Spain against her invaders the French.—
Ile recollected that the Noble Earl then foretold that in a few
months there would not be a single soldier left in Spain.
Earl GREY denied having said what the Noble Earl im-
puted to him.
The Earl of LIVERPOO,L did not mean to sat, that these
were the words of the Noble Earl " • but he contended that such
was the sense of what he then said. He perfectly well remem-
bered that, when in answer ,to some questions put to him re•
specting the state of our armies in the Peninsula, he stated his
opinion as to their successful exertions, the Noble Earl said,
he only desired that those words should be remembered. It
was now objected to that this country ehould have recom-
mended 'any alteration hi the Spanish Conititution under a fo'.,
reign menace.. But was there no difference between the dictation
of a hostile Power and the suggestion of friends ? But did they
ask the Spanish Government to concede to their enemies by
changing what they thought it would be wrong to change, or
even that which they considered doubtful ? No; but only such
parts of their Constitution as they. were all agreed upon as, be.
mg impracticable. And here again he must appeal to his me-
mory as to the former opinions of the soble Earl. He remem-
bered that at the time when this country was engaged in a weer
terrible magnitude, and, he believed. with a mutiny in her fleet
at the same moment, the Noble Earl and his friends seceded
from their places, because they could not effect the most im.
portant alteration that ever was proposed to he made in the
British Constitution, under the name of Parliameotary Re-
form. The supporters of a war policy always overlooked
the difference 'between Spain as it was now, and Spain
in
108—then an united, and now a divided. country. It was a
farce to say that the civil war now raging in Spain was eretite
ed by the French Army of Observation, It might have fet-
tered and harrassed the Government in its endeavours to put
it down, but there was no man who knew Spain, and Who had
passed through it, but knew that it was a divided countrY,
and could hardly tell which was. the largest.party. He would
riot undertake to say which formed the majority. He admit-
ted that a country like this ought alwaya to be prepared for
War, but before entering into war, those who directed its Ope.:
redone were bound to weigh all the chances of success, and
of the effect which either success or defeat would have Upon
17ilt:sil:ftsri.tsiwoleillrueuti7i,hereaa,id
ratelreotttighle,sti4of;sdspiaiiiit,,,
its interests. ‘‘nd Noble Lords opposite. seemed to speak -of
acontended,tiry himolauttiodif wh
walk
French army gained
done nothing towards that conquest..., Unless, indeed, the body
of the people rose ill their favour against the Constitution, and
then the whole question would be altered. Did the Noble '1
Earl forget that Spain was almost es lame ai France, and that
from her localities she was the strongest power in Europe to
resist the attack of a foreign enemy ? The 'very defects as
well its the virtues of the Spanish character emnbined to render
her conquest most difficult if not impossible of ' execution.'
It was therefore madness to suppose that Prance could ever
obtain that kind of dominion over her which would be.
dangerous to the balance of power, or inimical to the inte-
rests of this country. He remembered an argument which lie
used iu 1309 and 1810 against the Noble Earl; that the stone
thing would happen in Spain which happened in our North
AmericeO Colonies, and which applied to the present case.
He then Stated that France might be successful Upon the
point to which she went, but that every post she left, she lost,
and that, she, could remain the mistress of no more of the
country than that occupied hy her army."Phe result had fully
justified the opinions he then entertained. • But it was said,
" Will you who assisted Spain to drive the French from her
soil, leave her to be occupied by the,'Saine Power without aid-
ing her in her resistance ? And lie contested that this was a
strong appeal to their Lordships' judgment and feelings. • But
if country did go ipto war with such an object, it must be
riucvlsoi:tlioltnainTe
with all her might and power. To send out* a fleet would be
hundredof no as
all
'i hey
1484 lkvscowutelhel:la tbetlolnuerat thousandsahenothing
goiriflt tat herrtvyl oi
war " h commerce,
di 1
nt csdoi lretdlieworaua 'nd
sst entering
to
h anvt e
ae;
e
chance of success. And here again they came to the divisions in
Spain. To assist Spain'against a foreign enemy was one
and to assist her with one half df Spain against herself was
another. Ile should not detain their Lordships at that late
nour, but lie could not abstain from saying a few words upon
another point, as to the question of the general policy of the
country. It was said that the question now was whether we
should be the leaders of constitutional liberty, or come in to
the, toil of despotism. lie would here say that nothing ever
gave him so much pain as the circular of Austria, Russia,
and Prussia, to which hie, Noble Friend the late Lora !Anthill-
derry answered by note. Never was there an occasion upon
which the principles of despotism and anarchy had been
brought to such close issue, and the effects were now visible
throughout Europe. Looking, therefore,. at the state of the
world with regard to the conflict now waging between these
Bincons their true course was that of being guided by the
itish 'Coostitution, which was a compromise between the
principles of 51onarchy and Democracy Upon that ground
their policy should be a middle or neutral course ; to keep
free from either party in the struggle—to stand upon our
own Constitution—neither to be on one side the abettors of
despotism, nor, on the other, the supporters of thoae wild
and anarchical doctrinet, which would be the no less cer-
tain destroyers of liberty. In all such questions as the pre-
sent, this policy was applicahlg. It was the duty of the (iti.
verrinte.nt to take a whole review of what the interests of the
country required; .and if it.were put to the country, whether,
upon this occasion, we should choose war or peace, lie was con,
vinced that ninety-nine,men out of a hundrt would say—'4,,,Re_
main at peace." The` whole otestion was one of chances, and
the just course was to let the chances of peace be preferred to
tha chances of war.--(Hear, hear !)
Earl GREY explained.
Lord Ar-vANLEY and the Marquis of LAxspowx support-
ed the motion. •
Lord ELLENBOROUGH replied; and the House divided
on the Amendment :
Contents
Proxies

96
46
-142
29

Non-Contents
Proxies .
• -48
Majority in favour of the Amendment -94
Adjourned at lIALI-PAST Two.

HOUSE- OF, COMMONS.
FORE toisr AFFAIRS.
Mr. Secretary CANNING presented certain additional Pa-
pers relating to the late negociations. Ordered to be printed.
Several Petitions were presented against the Sciuthwark Court
of Requests Bill. Laid on the table.
CA P T 11 RE OF THE SPA NMI CORVETTE;
Mr. BROUGHAM, seeing one of the Lords of the Admi-
ralty in his place, wished ,to ask a question, that for the sake of
the national honour he hoped would be answered in the nega-
tive. It had been stated in the Public Journals that a Spanish
corvette had been captured in the 'West Indian Seas by a
French cruiser. ,He desired to know , whether the Admiralty
were in possession of any information upon the subject. As
the intelligence had reached this country, this capture must
have taken place six weeks ago, and the letters'Of marque and
reprisal must have been dated it a time its much antecedent

of the capture, if the cruiza• was authorized by the French
Government. In that case there had been the grossest perfitlY
on the part
,of that Government; and if no letters of marette
had been granted, the crew of the French ship had been guilty
of an act of piracy for which they were liable to be banged lap
by any one who met with them. To make the thing more
palatable, it was stated that the Spanish vessel was insured in
London.
Sir G. CLERK said that the GOvernment had received no
other intelligence of the circumstance than that which the Ron.
and•Learnell Gentleman had referred to.
Mr. GOOCH presented a Petition from the Chairman' aid
fifteen Magistrates of the
.County of Suffolk, expressing thr
satisfaction that the House had turned its attention to the inn'
portant subject of the Game Laws. Ordered to be printed.
a
Mr. MITANN presented a Petition from Penryn, praying
remission of duty on Coals carried coastways.
Mr. GRE N FELL trustetirthat,if the country.retnained, as
he hoped it would, in a :state of peace for another year; the
Chancellor .of the ExcheqUer Would. remit this tax.
Ordered to he printed. ' •
AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS.
Sir E. KNATCHBULL presented a potion from the
' County of Kent, complaining of -Agricultural
,Distress,
praying relief.
Sir T. LETHBRIDGE expressed his hope that the House
would attend to the prayer of the petition.
Ordered to be printed:
Mr. MAXWELL presented a petition from the si)ip-
owner' of Leith against the Stranraur Harbour Bill. Laid'oll
the Table..

,t,

Mr. liEN.NDySCrTuigi.
inJUI
a
Scotch Juries.
Read a lust time, and ordered to -be rend a second time err
IBTiIIES ior 'the regulation of
the sld of 31aY• •
' 111r.-111AXWELL moved fora return of the number of peat.-
sons confined for debt in the prisons of Scotland, in the
umbeer of
yr,.
1818, 1819, ltl2o, 1821, and. 1822 ; specifying the
debts under 1/., under 2/., under Al., and under 201.
• The LORI) ADVOCATE said he had no objection to the
Motion, but should render the Ilon. Gentleman every AS"-
ance in his power.—Ordered. '
: DIP,LO3IATIC P.A.PERS.
-FordSTANLEY" rose to put a question to the Right IfOn.
-Secretary for Foreign Affairs. In the Note of Sir W. A'Cottrr
of the 9th 'of Deeember, in answer to M. San Miguel's applice-
tion for the interference and mediation of this country, it did
not appear what had been the conduct of the Government:
There were passages left out in the co of the Note presented
to the House, so that it only stated theyfact of such a come-
nication haring been made. l'here was another question which
he intended to-have asked, las to the disavowal of all vievti_of
aggrandisforent on the part of France ; but he saw mng. the
documenti last presented; a paper -which disclaimed any .des
of that kind, or of restoring • any thing in the form of a lan1"/
Compact. --,..
Dlr. Secretary 'CANNING said that the application men-
tioned by the Noble Lord, was not made tothe form of a note
requiring Theerfrece, but consisted a verbal cowro.
motion. an which this Gorinment had made, trvins
that of transmitting. a dispatch to Sir C. Stuart, ivithin fo. Y;
eight. hours of receiving the intelligence, with instructior.l
to roake it tbe foundation of ma,rociations with the Frencr!_
Gayenurtent, and then of sending a copy of that die_ Lt
to Sir W. A`Court, to show how they bad acted. 1:114"..
parts of the dispatch which had been kept out of, the
t1,11!_
pers. before the House, had no reference whatever to. I_,ls.
subject. Upon the second " • the Noble Vizi 113(1
question, le .
sweredSimself.
• . 'MISREPRESENTATION.of or,
Mr. V. FITZGERALD said, that he was desirous _
._,
recting kmiarepresentation which had appeared in
wasseveral pith'
lie prints relative to the, debate of' TuesdaY. lie so the
to have interrupted discussion upon that °erasion, wherre, _
~..,
lion..Cientietuan opposite, who had called him to orde; F"f11
that he WAS '.iinxious to prolong it. This was a subject
an
that
very much iffeeted his personal feelings and charade tu,ret
the s DJc
therefore he had troubled the House with bringing
back to their notice. ble Gen.
111 r. CALCRAFT said, that, the Right Honoors ,
lead owe,
tlernart watt perfectly correct in the explanation he .
)01364
and that he was not aWare of such a nustepeetteattl`
been made. ,-
. • TAX ON' COALS. ' Itairt is-
Mr. Alderman W 001) presented a petition from ctl
~_„,,,1,,,
habitants of London and places adjacent thereto, III; Iti'vtloca
a repeal of the Duty On Coals carried coastways. lie
old give a
that the Wit Hon.• Chancellor of the Exchequer w
dss.
~ of
pledge drat this Tax would be amongst the find ret i whi
the public burdens. - supposed
lir. flonitousu and Mr. Alderman DIIIVOES
the petition, .' • • e
that th
I'hcCHANCELTIOR. of the EXCIIEVrt said,
a, redaction. of
situation of the country prevented. any no"•er ' n whaled
taxes during the present The worthy Aldertris .1 .n
the
errs to Ceye par. r' this 1a be retinue( i n
• a pledge that tax s tot _erg his coin-
ensuing,' ion ; but the same reason would pre%
toned at Peace:
plying with that request. If the country eon' oieshoolo
and the sante flourishintratate of the revenue recision
ele 0 __.
consider it his duty io i
general-revist n of
tai
soaoas
tion of the count ewith I , to bestg 6" with.'
T..: - a VC%
' prepense
the
general interests of the country coiled

(liei;r; bear!)
The petition was ordered to be printed.
• REFORII PETITIONS. e of
I,ltoietrnt,Yaid,
shAfflhri.vG,ooCll resented.p. a petition *mil the.
he --11. praying for Reform. Ti;e Honourable :Ile,' u, b, the,
uwsi:,"edbutult and
ioPtruirger
Ho • ree in its Pray.
printed: ;_ pe. titions toyebre,..rcceireqr.or 10 be
. • iro.
. Mr:COKE presented the Norfolk petitiOn'
pOsed by lli. Cobbett ) Petition was cal°.
Air 'M 1 T .CI .
late „ • . ,t A. A% 1, ,It said, that this
(The one 1
of Refonu.
, eci to prevent any one from supporting the cause .
,__ ~,e,
11 was surprised that such a Petition should have 1);Fe",..10,
stinted upon 'the Prcsent occasion. Ile believed that tt lot
properly, effected, would be the salvation of the wereeonntr to be
tat s!iti principles as those contained in the Petition _ nro-
ctc upod, they must lead to au entire revolution in tilt): ttio
rty and Constitution or the country.. lf, he' thong oily of
suchle Sentiments were entertained by any con
would
it
u PloPle, away with Reform for hini---lie wool,' "J.
with 1 the means in hit' cower. which Ore"'
Mr. 11. O,UHNEY described the meeting et He vie
tiont was' carried, as having been most icspctamr,. sbetin,
and as a spectator, and he saw Mr: Cobbett. the Iljtensteetog
another Hon. Gentleman., all three addressing ,t?,,, „estate 4
• the same and frein the contortions and viimeed..7,le was
which hey
, ey fused, and the confosion which previa .
,t.c.wo
swuerre—quite sure that no one of them knew that tht
ri
wtivirointi.
‘r
.e speaking. He described Mr. Cobbettlas 0 Write', that car'
ad himself to all classN of readers-, in 3 Mann t Lb, yame
!hitepersuasion with it to an extraordinary degree? n.a it up witil
! time exaggerating that which W3l true, and illia.noit„o their
};rest deal that was false. The , nombers who he ' ,60. and
Minds '
thoses 11 favour of the Petition he 'thought were ob°:!.0.11) Otlereti
as
thew Petition of
it might he 1209. le could novb c•
of the County of Norfolk.' i
The Petition Vas tl- . d
Mr. COK ' 'en
re'l
, hid one to,hie•t oupreo!
in the Co L presentA four petitions from difteren ~,,,o, ott
complaining
'if Agricultural I)istress. The lion% L a the
• i he should not have spoke a word upon the 01,36 fot tbe
petition which he had before resented, bad if not ilridleet'
in.:awrksfit: his Hot. Friend (.11r.M. A. Taylor). 'iv pre, •
eele't'linas e most respectable one lie had over seen, an it',,
The g! were orderly until Mr. Cobbett began tn p o hell'
hear e
Pirconfiision then bemire so great t-11;4i,t, dl
,li ~,,I,f
h.,
.from Min at a few yards disvaite was-% ',I t t,l-, i' :
, hes—l'll mi your b,Jllies."—(A biligh),--it W-4 thatf' A
l'rg'.
titian of the county of Norfolk ;he was convinced . ,
,majority of that county would disclaim it. 4 Tore th
makellr. M. A. TAYLOR said, that he thaiOtt iti,Vlb.„, OM
th(' rentarks. he had submitteil, because 11,e It
ere On'
sentimentstihri ought to be reprobated whenever they „ ,
ivil
Mr. JAMES rose to islaiye•iaeriart heer .w. not ore of t'se4ol
thought like the f Naosrfolk, that thehotity of
deserved to be laughed at. He thought it did the I_,ctea
-.‘t(!) laughedjfohh honour.--(A laugh..)--iirhen he rose be,,,l:a ho
at but neither in nor out of that flous..ol7)i• the
heared
, any one whoi could conravert the justice and truth A
prples laid down in tl 'et. fr a"
After a few words le
Sire I ion.
the
110 ~,ele
a ~., from C. Buniat.r., , •,..Litioas
;Member, whose name we could not learn, the r
ordered to be Printed.
Oen it
Mr, A BERCROMB Y gaid he- had a petition to Pr ent ; lit
the City of Edinburgh praying a Rethrm in Parliam.t.ce oc..
Trom the lateness of the hour be should defer it to an_ ',l4otioa
casion, when if was his intention to give notice of a
PPon the subject. Selkirk' POO;
Ir. II1.33:1E presented a petition front
'Herorm. Ordered to be printed.. the fluni
Mr. Humid- prevented a petition ft'ornAaltur!„
tired of Humid- lin Norfolk,- isining from
it,.A to IP
.tyari comp .. orooP.
Distress, and disclaiming the County petition. ~
printed. • BociltW"
Mr. G. RENNET d petition fron
resented IL or
praying Refo ii n. Ordered to be printed. Led $ p iii
Lord ARCHIBALD HAMILTON 'resell f the
from the Is/and of A • for titer toration ° ,„
on Hardie.' •
nan, prayingptcOr
f the E.
, After a few words from 'the CiraXert.r.oll. O,
quElt, the itetitian was ordered te lie on theiglulsltlff4cb
EXAMINATION OF: THE IMJ OLT sheenier hemp
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT, adverting to _A. the
Sh
I
Stood for to.ruerrow, to enquire into the condoct Pt