The Sun.
London, England, 1824-03-09 00:00:00

-As he understood that it was wished that the discussion on this
important question should be postponed to a later period of the
evetong, he would only say at present, that there was a very
material difference between this petition and others which had
been 'presented on the same enbject. Former petitions were
freeet the master silk-manufacturers, who had embarked their
capital in the trade, and who were naturally afraid that the
operation of the proposed measures would he the ruin of their
capital. The petitioners now before the House were men whose
daily bread depended neon their daily labour, and who corn-
.plaiaetYthat the effect of the intended measure would be to de-
prive' them of their only means of subsistence. The Maine
answer which had been given to the prayer of the master-manu-
facturors would not do to the present petitioners. It might be
said to the masters, that though- the proposed measure was one
which might produce temporary inconvenience to them, yet
that ultipiately it would tend to their gr at benefit ; but how
Pettld this sort of argument answer the prayer of the workmen,
who, even supposing that a future benefit would accrue to the
'trade, would, in the interim,- be reduced to starvation by the
loss of their only means of subsistence. He would say no more
at present, but move that the petition be brought up.
Mr. ELLICE said that there were more than 20 other Peti-
tions in his possession, and those of other Members, to be pre-
sented On the same subject from the operative wearers.
The Petition was now read, and was to [Wallowing:effect:—
, " Weethe journeymen silk-weaveri of London, having learnt
with the greatest dismay and alarm, that the Right Hon. the
• Chancellor of the Exchequer has proposed to your Honourable
Houle.the .repeal of thole prohibitory laws regarding the hu-
kortation into this country of foreign wrought silks your
Petitioners, do most humbly and earnestly entreat of your
Honourable House, to- seriously pause before it agrees to a
measure that-will, in our opinion, totally annihilate. that ma-
nufacture, by.which we from our infancy have been taught
maintainokselves and families as useful members of society,
by engrotising Our chief attention to bring to that- vast• perfec-
:Ai= the silk Manufacture of. this kingdom, which,-ist. this pre-
sent period, it hai arrived to, and which we are tea Ching our
children,, apprentices, &c., who with us (should the. 'above
dreaded measure be adopted by your Honourable House) will
soon be reduced to the worst of all miseries—namely, pau-
perism and ,ataryatione with all their accompanying horrors;
therefore we solemnly and seriously hope that you will, by re-
jecting the propoeed measure, chew to your Petitioners that
you will not suffer to be sacrificed the peace, happiness, and
only comforts of many thousands of your humble and loyal
Petitioners, the journeymen silt-weavers of London, who, as
in duty bound, will ever pray."
The Petition was ordered to be printed.
Colonel TRENCH presented a Petition from Wiebcch, in
_favour of the Bill for the Recovery of Small Debts.—Ordered
to be printed. • •

Inquire if the reduction proposed would be of any real value to
the grower; and he would fairly state that be did not think it
would. It would amount to a fraction more than one halfpenny
in the pound of sugar, which all would be ready to admit would
not he likely to produce any great increase in the consumption
likely to benefit the grower. • Neither could it well be said that
there was an undereconsumption in the country when coinn
pared e ith the population ; for he believed the consumption
of this country was greater for its population than that of any
other country with the same extent of population in the worlin
The consumption of France did not shew for the same popula-
tion more than 1-4th the quantity. He concluded, therefore, that
no material advantage could be given to this interest by the
proposed Amendment of the Hon. Member for Aberdeen. He
thought, however, that other means might be found to give re-
lief, which should not be to ale detriment of any other interest,
but on the contrary. He alluded to the present state of the
price of barley, which had reached that height which gave a
near prospect of the introduction of foreign barley. He be-
lieved the price was close upon that which would open the
ports to that article. In such a sate of things, then, he put it
to the Country Gentlemen whether, in consideration of their
own interests, they would not be doing a gracious act to a
neat suffering interest, if they consented to tile use of sugar
in distilleries instead of barley.—(Hear, hear !)—By that means
a great service would be done in the West India -interest,- and
a great evil avoided to the corn grower by avoiding the open-
ing of the ports. The distilleries he believed, were now in full
operation, which-would be over in six weeks or two months,
so that no time was to be lost. Such a course would be a great
boon to the West India agents, although he belitved they had
now no great stock of sugar on hand. •He trusted that his Ma.
jetty's Governmentwould not think such a proposition alto-
gether unworthy of their consideration.
Mr. II USKISSON said, he was glad the Hon. Member for
Taunton had stated to -the House his view of the proposition
of the Hon. Member for Aberdeen. That Hon. Member rest.
ed his motion on some observations relative to tobacco, which
had fallen from the Hon. Member who had presented a pe-
tition on that subject. Now the observation about tobacco
related to the great extent to which smuggling was carried
upon that article, whereas the Hon. Member for Aberdeen
(Mr. Hume) told them that there was no smuggling in sugar,
thus destroying the analogy at once. If again he rested much
upon the argument that the high duty on wine-had prevented
a greater consumption, it would not serve him upon the pre-
sent occasion ; for there had
.been no such fall off' in the con.
eumption of sugar, showing :cat the rate of duty impededethe
-natural consomption: . Nothing had surprised him more than
to hear the lion. Member state, that since 1814 there had
been no increase of consumption. So far from that being the
fact, he could confidently state, without the fear of contradic-
tion, that there was no one article upon which, judging by the
revenue. returns of duty, so great an increase of consumption
had taken place as in sugar since 1814. After Such an asser-
tion as the Hon. Member bad made the ground of his propOsal,
it was impossible for him to resist going a little into detail on
the subject. By a reference to papers, then, be found Oat-
the average consumption of the three years following 1314, lip
to 1817, was 2,214,000 cwt. In 1322, the consumption Was
2,763,000 cwt., an increase of 548,000 cwt. in seven years, being
equal to an increase of twenty per cent. in the consumption
of sugar. The consumption for the year ending sth January
last was 3,13000 cwt., an increase of 40 per cent. on what
was consumed - only nine years before.—(Hear, hear!)—ale
asked any one, then, in the face of those figures, to say that
the duty on sugar was one which, as far as the consumer was
concerned, was any impediment to consumption.—( Hear, hear!)
The Hon. Member for Aberdeen had referred to the consump-
tion of Ireland for .the same purpose, as he had referred to
that of England. Unfortunately the population of that country
was notin that state of full employment which happily was now
thetease with England. But it was ntit.the reduction of one half-
penny nn the pound of sugar that was likely to procure the Irish
labourer that fiat employment which would make that dnrerence .
in his subsistence which should increase his consumption of this
article, which was not the first necessary, although be was will-
ing to rank it as the first luxury of lite. He would next exa-
mine the progressive state of tile supply of Sager, as compared
with-the progressive increase of consumption. The supply on
the old and.new Colonies since 1314 had increased to the amount
of 629,000 .cwt. over the annual demand. The consumption
of the present year, compared with that consumption and sup-
ply of 1314, left.but 1121,000 cwt. of over supply, which set off
by the increased produce made an increase of consuniptitm
over supply of 300,000 cwt. He looked at this state of things
with the most confident hopes of a speedy termination of those
evils under which the West India Interest had been so long
labouring. He looked at this progressive increase as a near
approach to that state, when the supply would not exceed
the demand of Great Britain, and the Colonists would be
relieved from the evils of over supply. When he stated
this as tha ground of hope, it was . not unsatisfactory to
know that the consumption at present exceeded in the way
he nad -stated by comparison only with former times, the
law4est supply that had ever been made to this country in
ooe year. That quantity was 3,785,000 cwt. The home
consumption, for the present year, was as he had stated,
3,134,1,009 cwt. bearing an excess for exportation of 655,000
cwt. Now the foreign exports for this year exceeded those
of the last 130,090 cwt. Thus then they found the home
consumption and foreign demand exceeding the greatest sup-
ly they ever had from the. West Indies at any one period.
In the same way would it be found that the compensations re-
turned to the growers was increasing. 'Thus, in 1822, where the
price was 31s. ; in 1823, it was 325. 10d. ; and ie. 1824, 345. 7id.
This was the natural consequence of a decreasing stock and an
increasing consumption of the. article. Nor was it likely_ that
any increased production, either in the new or the old colonies,
would take place. In the new, particularly at Demerara,
which had contributed so much towards the glut of the market,
he was told there was no possibility of an increase, owing to
the difficulty of getting slaves, and other local impediments.—
: He hoped therefore he had shewn that there was nothing so
urgent in the state of the sugar interest to induce them to make
this further reduction of the duty. The thriving state of that
interest had surpassed, he confessed, even his expectations ;
but this increased consumption was . a further proof of
the state of increasing ease and the increasing comfort of
the great body of the community; for if' distress and want
of employment
impossible they could go on consuming to so
great an extent this article which, as he bad befisre ob-
served was no necessary. In 1791, the whole consumption
of both this country and Ireland wasel,4oo,ooo cwt. In 1823,
it had considerably more thah doubled, although the interval
.
heti' been a period of unexampled trouble. It could, there-
fere, be attributed to nothing but the increasing ease and
comfort of the people; and as the Hon. Member tier Taunton
had observed, there was no country in Europe with three times
the population of this country that consumed an eqoal quan-
tify. With respect to the proposal to allow Distillers to sue
sugar instead of barley, for his own part he must say he could have no objection.—(llear, hear !)--fle should be glad
to leave that proposal to the decision of the parties interested
on either side without any obstruction on his part. But as a
mere expedient at present, as there were only six weeks or two
months left to complete the distilleries, he assured the Hon.
Member that as such it would. not he practicable in de-
tail. The time required to prepare for such a change in
the law would consume the whole six weeks, and inevitably
prevent any benefit one way or the other from the proposed
alteration. At the same time he had no hesitation in saying,
that he thought the distiller ought in fairness to have his
choice as long as foreign barley was excluded. It was-most
true, as had been cursorily observed, that the stock of sugar
on hand was considerably decreased, but still he should be glad
when the new sugars were about to come in, to see some row
mode of getting rid of them. He hoped he had made a case
for the Committee to reject the motion of the Hon. Member
for Aberdeen. He hoped also that he had afforded the West
Indians some expectation ofa gradual relief from the evils under
which they had been labouring. They would derive that re-
lief from the same natural causes which had put an .end to the
distress of other interests. It was owing to similar causes that
the Cora Growers bad undergone so much suffering, and a Simi-
lar remedy from the natural working ofevents awaited the West
Indians, as had taken them out of their difficulties. If parties
brought more ofa commodity into the market than was wanted,
and that commodity were grown in a variety of latitudes, they
must expect to be obliged to sell the excess at reduced prices.
With respect to what the Hon. Member for Aberdeen had said
about the reduction of Rum, he confessed he was surprised when
he knew how the West Indians had pressed that very reduction.
He mast be allowed to suppose that the West Indians under-
stood their own concerns as well as the Hon. Member for A ber-
dcen. There was at present, he believed, a great stock of Rum
with a limited demand, so that the reduction would prove of
great advantage. As to their being shut out of Ireland, he
woshi tell the. Hon. Member for Aberdeen, that the consul-tip.
tion of Ireland, even when the duties were more equalized,
never exceeded 40,001) gallons. The fact was, the native
liquor would always hare the,advantage. To mit the prin-
ciple relative to wastage contended for by the Hon. Member,
would be contrary to the very meaning of the existing law.
The duty became due on its landing in the country, bat the
bonding system allowed it to remain until the liquor was sold.
The duty was then taken, and an allowance made for wastane ;
anti any other plan would open a vast door to fraud and evasion.
Under these circumstances he hoped the Committee would feel
satisfied that there was no call for the amendment of the Hon.
Member for Aberdeen ; and he begged them especially to bear
in mind that everseshilling taken off was a diminution to the
Revenue of 150,000/. a year.
Mr. C. R. ELLIS observed, that nothing could be more
tempting to the friends of an interest that had long been suf-
fering under the weight of distress than a proposal like that
before the House for a diminution of the tax on one of the

Sir. Al. W. RIDI,EY presented a petition' tom a Mr.
-Robert Foster (we. think), statini, that the public buildings in
London were much disfigured I.y smoke, and adding, that.he
had discovered a method by which such injury might be pre-
vented: He prayed the House to take the matter into their
conAideration.—Laid on the table.

Mr. HUME presented a petition from the Working Hatters
of Southwark and London, praying for the repeal of :the Com-
i%ination Laws.—Ordered to lie on the. table.

Lord ALTIIORP postponed a notice of a motion of hie (rc-
specting an amnesty to Ribandmen Ireland) which stood for
to-morrow, to Thursday.
Mr. ESTCOURT presented a petition, (we did not hear
from what place), praying for a diminution of tho dutieS on
tobacco.

Mr. BENETT.said a few words in favturrof the diminution.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT supported the the petition, anti
-observed that it appeared from the returns for Ireland, that
-the quantity of tobacco consumed in that country on which
,duty was paid had diminished since the duty had been iney4ased.
Mr. BRIGHT observed upon the impolicy of the high
duties in this article of universal consumption, and contended
that the effect of those duties was to encourage smuggling to a
most injurious extent. He particularly called the attention of
Ministers to this latter point ; and instanced, as an erzamplz of
it, that in a smuggling cutter lately taken, IMO bag; of to-
bacco were found, and only 7.5 kegs of gin. He inli;rvtd th:.t
-of all the duties paid by the people of this country, there were
none which pressed so heavily upon the honest trader, and was
so favourable to the smuggler, as that upon tobacco.
The petition was then brought up and read, and ordered to
`be J;rinted.

Sir. ESTCOURT presented a.petition from the silk-throw.
sters of Devizes, against the proposed alteration in the duties
en silk.—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. LI\DS:IY presented a petitio." from the licensed inn-
holders and victuallers in a town in Lancashire, praying for the
repeal of the duty on their licenses.—Ordered to printed.

chief articles of their production and sources of revenue.—
The Chancellor of the Exchequer, however, had already
consented to grant them a diminution of the duty on rum,
and also a beneficial change in the mode of collecting
that duty, which had been considered by persons possess-
ing practical knowledge, as more advantageous to the in-
terests of the West Indians than a reduction of the duty on
Sugar. The quhation, then, was • not whether a reduction of
the Sugar Duty \vould or would not be beneficial, but
whether it would be more beneficial than the other con-
- cessions offered by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. In
his opinion, after a careful examination of the question, he
concluded hat the-balance of advantage preponderated with
thea-Chancellor of the Exchequer's plan. If he were asked
whether it would not be better to have the two, be should say,
that if the measure of. their distress were m be the measure of
their claim, they certainly would be entitled to it. But that
was not the measure to be used on such an occasion, for their
claim must be regulated and moderated by what others sought
and obtained. Neither was it in the nature of the West In-
dians to put forth claires beyond reason. During the whole of
the long period of distress through which the West Indians
had gone, they had never shown any unreasonable impatience.
They had not abstained from putting forth their claims to as-
sistence; but never to the detriment of other interests. It
would, therefore, be inconsistent with their former conduct now
to deMand the reductions spoken of, in both sugar and rum.
As to any project of the kind mentioned, respecting the distil-
ling of spirits from rum, that he thought might reasonably be
entertained ; and he most sincerely hoped the Chancellor of the
Exchequer would not be impeded from adopting a course so
valuable to two great interests, he meant the West Indians
and the Corn Growers, by the consideration of any practical
or technical difficulties. He was sorry it was not in his -ower
to take the same.- flattering view of the future prospects of
the West Indians as his Right
.lionourrible Friend had
done. He was afraid the increase in the consumption of
sugar could not be fairly attributed -to so permanent a cause as
increased ease of the people ;.- but that it rather proceeded front
a temporary cause, such as the reduction of taxation—a cause
which they could not expect to recur. He could not, therefore,
tbr these reasons, vote for the amendment of the lion. Member
for Aberdeen.
Mr. ELLICE said that lie came into the House with the
full intent of supporting the motion of his Hon. Friend behind
hint (Mr. Hume); but if his Majesty's Government would
give them any hope that they would take the suggestion of the
Hon. Member for Taunton into consideration, lie did no doubt
his Honourable Friend would withdraw his motion. He did
not ask for a pledge, but merely so much as would give them
reason to hope that his Majesty s Government would admit the
proposition to their serious consideration. He confessed he
did not feel those flattering hopes from the improvement of the
West India interest which the Right Honourable Gentleman
seemed to entertain. He had been at a loss to understand
his statistical statements, which lie thought the Right Honour-
able Gentleman-would do well to lay on the table and have
printed. They would have the effect of making the subject
well understoOd out of that House as well as in it, and of giving
confidence where it was much wanted. . He found it difficult
to persuade himself that the increased consumption which bad
been shewn proceeded from any such permanent cause as it
had been attributed to. He was alieiti it would be found, as
well as every increase on excisable articles, to have proceeded
from the remarkable cheapness of provisions last year. He
believe-a, however, • his Majesty's Government required only
to be shewn the way in what best concerned the interest of the
West Indians; and he trusted with such feelings they would
geva the suggestion of the Hon. Member for 'Taunton (Mr.
Baring) their best consideration.
Mr. CALCRAFT wished to have some information which
should enable him to decide upon the vote he should give. Ile
saw not the slightest objection to permit the mixture of sugar
with the distillation of barley. The price of barley, he believed,
wented but five pence of the price which would admit foreign
grain. When that was admitted, he thought the Distillers en-
titled to have their choice; and considering the state of the
West India Colonies, lie had no objection to that choice being
given them now.— (Hear, hear I)—ltrinit lie particularly wished
to know was, whether on his side of the House they had rightly
understood the Right lion. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Hut-
kisson) to say, that the demand for sugar was now greater than
the supply ?—(No, no, from Mr. Iluekisaon.)—He (Mr. Cal-
craft) had certainly always understood the reverse to be the fact,
sw2titotleoi
rttlfirieiisitilimungtiyntdaot,
batle;ledi same
but they had all understood the Riclit Hon. Gentleman to state
the cane as tstp.ted He-had certainly come dawn to
the house with an inclination to support the motion of his Hon
Friend (Air. Hume); but the statements that he hal heard
tirade,
w6h he
nim tohiwaiitcatrhte,ae increase
ar
o°dfpstet consumptione(ierde
ei let 1 frao-
the evil was to create some new
exceeded the demand, the
contending about. If the supply
only way to rent
stimulus
to consumption. 'ibis was enstwed. by the plan of the lion.
Member-for Taunton• irie hoped, therefore, his lion. Friend
(Mr. Hume) would withdraw his motion, and that his Maksty's
Government would candidly consider whether sugar souls.' not
be introduced into the distilleries.
Mr. 11-CSKISSON exPlained the statement he had origi-
nally made to the The object of his statement was to
she* that in 1814,
°w'ng to the increased produce of the
Colonies, there was a coneiderable excess of supply °vex
consumption. He ha(.s afterwards stated, that -between 1823
and 1824 the consomPlion had increased in a greater ratio than
the supply, front which he derived hopes that the Consumption
would in time become.fMal to the supply. The supply it was
to be observed, was sill in advance of the cons matron ; but of
late the increase of stIPPaY °vet consumption had been gradually
fbantied
getting less. Thus he had • shewn • that in 1311 the increase of
supply over consumption was 629,000
cwt.
, and that in 182'J the
increase of consumption °yer and above that of 1814 was 921,000
e increase us between the two periods
cwt. shewing a relativ
upon which he .had the exulting prospect he had in-
dulged in. By deducting' the inereasd proauce firm' the the difference mand of two periods, must Am the amount of
consumption of the one, over and above the falling off in the
other. His conclusion from the use he had made of this course
was, that in two or three years there would be no surplus sup-
ply at all. With respect to the barley, all that lie could say was,
that under the existin* state of the law, the proposed plan
could not be made availaLle for the present season. But the
suggestion would not be lost, if the House were of opinion it
deserved attention. lhe last return of barley was 38a.,__a
price which he did not think aehrded much expectation of the
importation of foreign barley before the end of the period for
distillation.
Mr. CA LCRA FT said a feW Words in explanation.
Mr. BENETT thought that ee
, harm could be done to agri-
culture, if sugar were not used la distillery until barley had
reached the price at which importation would be allowed. He
wished to know, from the Right lion. . Gentleman opposite,
whether, under the nern
Y regulations, runt could tie
used by the distiller to be converted into gin. If this were the
case, distillation from barley would receive a great check.
lILTSKISa'ON said, that to enable the rectifier to take
such a course was a question of great difficulty. But he should
think it most desirable in the present state of the West Indies,
if practicable.
Mr. BRIGHT said, that if the West Indians could not ob-
tain the benefit in question, without injury to other classes, they
would rather submit to their present evils than derive that ad-
vantage.—( Hear!)—A t the same time he begged to observe that
nothing would tend more to conciliate the distressed Nest In,
dians, and make them more patient under suffering, than to find
their case meet the consideration of that House. They antici-
pated great advantages from the diminution on the duty on
rum, but greeter front the alteration In the mode of collecting it.
He confessed he did not look so confidently to the prospects of
the West Indian as the Right HOn. Gentleman. He thought
they ought not to have been excluded from the markets of Ire-
land and Scotland. The reason whiskey was preferred to rum
in these countries was because it seas cheaper. It had always
been the policy of Government to push runt out of the marke
in favour of British spirits.

Mr. F. LEWIS observed, that the consumption of rum had
been very inconsiderable in Scotland of late' years, and still
less in Ireland. The whole duty of ss. fid. a gallon had ne-
ver been collected in Ireland, owing to the evasion of that
duty which was so extensively practised. With regard to
the scheme of relieving the West Indians by throwing barley
out of uso, he never heard any more objectionable. He did
not see that the weight of duty now complained of ought to be
taken off the West India interest, and thrown on the Barley-
grower of England. This he considered would be the effect of
the plan which had been suggested, and this he could not ap-
prove. Any weight of taxation from which the Colonial in-
terest might be relieved ought not to be thrown on any par-
ticular class, but ought rather to spread on the whole com-
munity.
Mr. 11. SUMNER thought the course proposed to betaken
by Ministers would afford material relief to the West India
Planters, without injuring the agricultural interests of this
country. He could not vote for the Amendment, and hoped
it would be withdrawn.

111 r. ROBERTSON °Tared a few remarks on the proposed
relief to the West India interests which were not distmetly
heard in the gallery. •

Mr. MA N'iNltiwas of-opinion that it was fair-and proper
to give an advantage to your own sugar merchant, rather than
to the foreign corn grower. It was only proposed to admit
the West India Merchant after the English Farmer, and be-
fore the Foreigner. Ile therefore thought the measure a good
one. The Colonies were entitled to relief ; and though to his
surprise their table was not covered with petitions from their
inhabitants, their situation was such as demanded the most
serious attention of Govermnent; and he hoped that every

effort would be made to remove the pressure under which they lisped about that period ; and if the Chancellor of the Esche-
at present laboured. quer of that day had proposed to relieve the cotton-mal
11Ir. PLUMMER thought our own Planters ought to he facture from restrictions such as those which now clogged
the._
encouraged rather than the Foreign Corn-growers, by sanc- silk trade, he might have objected that it was not a native
Inan.ld
tioning distillation from _sugar, when barley reached a certain facture, and that it would be impossible by any means to enable
price.
Sir I. COFFIN considered Ministers' to have acted very li- foreign markets ; he might have' preferred encouraging t?, berally by the West India interest, and should therefore vote manufacture of we :l which was an article of our native growth' for their propositions. " and he might have appealed, in support of his argument, to the
Mr. WHY.DIORE said, in consideration of the present state policy of our ancestors who compelled even the shrowd of tae
of the 'West Indies, it was not his intention to redeem in this dead to be made of woollen. Fortunately for the woollen mann_ Session of Parliament the pledge which he had formerly given facture of this country it never laboured under the restriction:
again to bring forward' the subject of the private trade to India. to which both the cotton and silk manufactures have been suldeede Ile must, however, remark, the evils which had been predicted He begged the attention of the Committee to the
progress wittcd`
last year as the consequence of persevering in the present sys- had been made by the cotton manufacture, and
from that they`
tem had all been realized, and he thought the present exclusion might infer the advantage likely to bederived to the silk manufar_
of the products of India might justly be complained of by the Cure from being placed on a similar footing. It was perfectly nig,:
natives of that country,
that forty years ago woollen was the staple manufacture of this
Mr. HUME replied to the arguments of the preceding= country. By the Custom-house returns* appeared that in the Ye:
speaker, and contended that the increased consumption of MO the whole of the cotton manufacture of all kinds exported
~ sugar which hail been dwelt upon, was no more than the West amounted to 375,0001. In the year
1785, which was two years
1 India interest had had a right to expect and he could not go after the return to a state of peace, when the country no longer .
the length which the Right lion. Gentleman had &nein anti- felt the oppressive operation of the war, the whole export %
cipating a further increase. The Gentlemen in the Test India cotter' manufactures of all kinds amounted to no more than
trade ought to know their own interest best, but he could not 864,0001., while the amount of the woollen manufacture ex-
help thinking that they laboured under a delusion if they look- ported in the sameyear amounted, to nearly four unilions,heil
ed for that increased demand which the Right lion. Gentleman nearly five to one
in favour of the native over the foreign rn •
would encourage them to expect. lie therefore felt that the material. -From that time to the present the increase in the eite
view which he -had taken of this subject was correct.. He port. of cotton .goods had been surprising. In the year 1822dd
thought the West India interest entitled to that relief which he amounted to 27,337,000/., being more than forty times its had asked for them ; if they did not care to have it, still he amount forty years ago ; whereas the export of woollens in th't thought it ought to be claimed on the part of the country ; but same year was only six millions, being only.one-fourth of t"
as he felt that he could not succeed against them and the Go- export of cotton goods. 71Iere. might be seen an instance Of thevertirnent, vernnment, with permission of the House he would withdraw his advantages of freedom of trade, and of' the beneficial operation
motion,
of institutions calculated to give a free direction to the emploY-
Mr. CRAY GRANT said if the productions of the Right went of capital, and free scope to the industry of the
.countath
Hon. Gentleman should not be realised, it might be hoped that 1 He had only stated the growth of the cotton manufacture. as re"
the lion. Member for Aberdeen would give the Gentlemen gated to the exports, and the amounts he had giVen Were tak,;'i
connected with the West Indies, another opportunity of ex- from the official returns, which the Chntrriwee were aware lth'il'
pressing their sentiments on this subject. Their vote on the rather higher than the actual value in the home market. lie
present occasion was unquestionably not a little influenced by had however made inquiries, and according to the best infor-
what had fallen from the Right Hon. Gentleman, t motion he had been able to obtain,- he believed he was not over.'
Mr. GORDON thought it must appear extraordinary, not / stating it when he said.that the actual value of the. whole cotters
only to the House, but to the country, that the Gentlemen con- 1 manufacture of the country for exportation and for houte_con-
nected with the West Indies should rise, one after another, to smnption in the last ' year amounted to 32 millions. The
declare against the proposition of the lion. Member for Aber- Hulse might ask how the increase. of the cottop manufacture
deen which had been brought forward for their relief. There applied in argument to the manufacture of silk. . lie believen,
was me little secret understanding connected with this. lie ,he might state, that the manufacture of cotton, producint;
would state the fact. By law a bounty of 30e. was at preser t 1 thirty-two Millions, did not consume five millions of raw mad
allowed on the exportation of refined sugars. This would ex- terlai ; the remainder. must therefore be made up of the pries
Aire on the 4th July next, and he believed an intimation had of labour and the profit upon the capital employed. CBE
been given that if the West India interest supported the pre- would ask, 'whether, if the cotton manufacture had remainedsent motion that law would not be renewed.- Had his Hon. subject to restrictive laws such. as now operated upon the sil'
Friend pressed his motion he (Mr. Gordon) would have 'tested manufacture the country would have been able to support those
for it, and though it was for his interest to support the Bill for exertions which had enabled it to carry on the late war. It was
renewing the bounty of which he had spoken when it came only to the increased activity of its industry and trade that the
before the liouss he did not know that he' should do so, as he country could look for any eilhethel. relief from taxation and fot
thought. the renewal at variance with the general system -on resources to carry on any future war. The silk trade at present'
I
which Ministers professed to act: Much had' been said of the was suffering all the ell:tete naturally produced by monopolft
kindness of the Government towards- the 'West India Interest. 1 which was always chilling and benumbing in its operetiops. VII
He would say, that if they knew to whom they might to be 1 effect of prohibitory laws was always to destroy competition and grateful, they would see it was to his HM I
Iron. Friend the em, to prevent improvement. Nor were the evils of such a systera
ber for Aberdeen. Ile had brought this subject forward year confined to the trade itself. Whet could be more odious 11! after year, and compelled that attention to it, which, but for principle than the laws which were necessary -to support "it?
his exertions, it never would have received, What law could be soineongenial to the feelings of Englishmen
The Amendment was then withdrawn, and the original Re-- as that which enabled a Custom-house officer td enter hie house,
solution was agreed to. The House then resumed, the-Report or to detain his carriage if he were travelling, to search it for
was ordered to be received tomorrow, and 'leave was obtained contraband articles ? etnd what could be less desirable titan the
for the -Committee to sit again on Wednesday. . encouragement held opt to the violation of the laws. ? Thehigher
On the motion of Mr. C. Www er, the Committee on the orders would have foreign silks if they could
Usury Laws was postponed till Friday next. lower orders naturally
would wrocure them get
asthem. long as they
CUSTOMS—SILK TRADE. - could find purchasers. lie had beard it said in allusion
tand the
On the motion of Mr.littsxissow, the Ilouse resolved to the Game Laws, ~ if you will have game, you must
itself into a Committee on the Customs Acts, to which Returns have. poachers ;" and so it was in this case—if they woald,
of Duties had previously been preferred. have foreign silks, they must else lutve smuggler,. •It han .
de cinoutrilteryl,aewxspalahiencetdingthtehe
in)
Right Hon. Friend, been stated by the manufacturers themselves, that tiny quail"
thel%..lCri; ailnUcellrorioSfSgeNwsaxict'ettihuaetrtthwoiPtglihtihmaist perspicuity so peal- tity of prohibited goods could be had in town at a preadult' liarly his own, had, when he brought forward his statement re- of 15 per cent. ; and yet the same persons, when they heard of n
grounds of proposal to protect them by an d 7 C,.., VII rOrent duty of 30 per cent'
porta. cried out that that was no protection. Two American Gentrch
tion of silk, still, in consequence of the objections that had been men who were examined before theLords' Committee, on being
raised both in and out of doors,
.and of the great importance of ash ed what was the difference between silk goods of French me'
lathtoisv ec to
lt e therat financesl' ep r oolf) otsiem
the subject itself, he trusted, however unable to follow his Right nufacture and those of English manufacture, when brought too
Hon. Friend in clearness of detail, that the House would in- competition in time markets, answered, that in some few cases it'
Bulge him while he. went into those statements connected with might be 30 per cent. ; on black silica in general it was about
time subject. .To the general plan there were two kinds of objec. 20 per cent., and in ribbons 25 per cent. Mr. Hale, a silk-ma-
tions. The first were the objections of those who thought, that nufacturer, of Spi talfields, stated in his evidence
'before the Coln-
being in. situation to afibrd seine relief to time 'country it should inittee,• that " when he was in Paris, certain parties having. n°
be effected by the. removal of direct taxation. The other class of idea that he was a manufacturer, offered for a premium of front
objectors were those who wished time laws affecting the silk trade L'i to 20 per cent to insure the delivery of manufactured silk 4
to remain as they were. With respect to - the first class of ob. to any amount in any part cf London." lie also added, that
jections, it did appear to him that the course pursued by Go- many French goods found their way into this country;
vernment was that most conducive to the advancement cf the did not consider that an evil, for there was a disposition marry'
various interests of the community... When it was felt, after the persons to prefer any thing that came from France ; and when
close of the war,. that they were in a situation to ligheen the I a' French reticle found its way into England, the pattern Ives kn.'
bUrthenS of the people, they were first bound to look to those' niedietely copied ; and where there awl one reel French article
classes Vsho were more immediately and more deeply affected I worn, there were a thousand Engl imitatiOns of
by the duties on consumption. It was with this view that the i pattern. `a It was," lie ish
also said, w not uncommon forthe an Eng serve
taxes on malt, leather, and salt were reduced, and though last, lish manufacturer to imitate a French article, and send it down
not least in operation, that it was proposed to continue the to Brighton, where by means of fish-women ands mugglers large
lottery no longer.—(Hear, hear !)—Last year a quantities weredispcsed of at a higher price as French g cliNi
reduction took place in those direct taxes considerablegth than they would have fetched as English manufactures." Could.
1
middle and better classes. Having thus extended relief to it then be contended, when a profit could be derived from such a
nearly the amount of seven millions by the repeal of those competition with French goods, which could be introduced in
taxes, it might be asked why they did not proceed still further any quantity at a risk Of er cent. at evil could be
in what appeared to many to be the most desirable plan of re- feared from a removal of theten prophibition, th
and the substitution of
lief, that was, by a further reduction of direct taxes. It was a protecting duty of 30 per cent. ? He had that morning held a
said that nothing could be more easy than the adoption of such consultation with a deputation from the silk manufactuers of
a plan, and certainly it could not be pleasant to the feelings of Manchester, who stated that if a little time were given them to
those whose duty it was to watch over time public interests to complete their arrangements, they would not fear any competie
proceed upon principles that might appear incompatible with tion with France or any other country.—(liear, hear!)—He
the wishes of the public. However, when his Majesty's 1111_ was aware that he should be told that the persons engaged ill
nisters found that they were in a situation to remit something the trade .were after all the best judhes of their own interests-
more of the hurthens of the country, the question arose whether He felt the greatest defirence for the opinions of those who,
they should not begin to act on principles the justice and from their connection with any particular branch of trade, and.
policy cf which were generally admitted, and by so acting their experience in it, were quaiitied to speak of that in which
give increased energy and effect to industry and comninerce— they were engaged; but he did not think it at all inconsistent
The great alterations that were rapidly taking place in the ge- with a proper degreeof deference to their judgment in the matter
neral colonial system of the world, and the new channels which which more particularly concerned them, to doubt whether per- •
' were thereby opened for various branches of trade, made it in- sons so situated were the best judges of what was best for the
cumbent upon the Government ofthis country to consider whe- interests of the public in general. He had no doubt that what,
they something might not be done to secure for it a fair share in he was about to propose would materially affect the interests or
the markets that were thrown open to general competition. At some individuals ; brokers and- dealers in' silk for 'instance,
this moment the Provinces of South America were - still' strug- I would be affected, and dcubtlees would be 'much, moreinclined •
filing; to secure their independence of time Mother Country, and I to support hint iii a proposal to augment the prohibitory
in an unsettled state as regarded their political condition ; but i) support
all cases where' 'any change was -
we knew dolt they never could return to their thrmer state of introduced In the commercial regulations of the country,
subjection; and when we look at the present condition of the there were interests which must be afflicted ; what was to t
United States, though possibly the South American Provinces be considered therefore was the effect on the interests of the
might not possess the same advantages, yet, considering time Public generally. He knew that great activity had been used
state of the population, the climate, the products, and other na- in promoting a feeling on this subject out of doors, by those who
tura! advantages which belonged to those provinces, it was im- derived an an advantage from time i llici t traffic in prohibited goods, -
possible not to hope that under any system which promised them and • lie feared that when the prohibition was removed the fancy
a fair opportunity and proper facilities for the developement of for partieular articles would be taken away. Those who were
their resources, incalculable advantages might be denved from engaged in business with ladies' maids, and through them with
an intercourse with them, which would increase with their grow- h i
t. mistresses, formed, he was convinced, not time least import..
log wealth' and prosperity. It will become the Government of ant part of the confederacy. It was contended
•
ended to all the peti-
this country, under all these circumstances, to inquire whether, lions on this subject, that more time at least ought to be givep,
there being but a very small amount of excess of revenue which to enable those in the trade to guard against the ill consequences
it could remit consistently with the principles of finance which of a sudden change. Buttagainst delay there was this argument,
had been sanctioned by Parliament, and upon which tile. calcue that if the period of time alteration were postponed the consumer
lations of his Right Hon,'Friend were founded, it was• worth would delay his purc'hases, in tile. hopes of making than with
while to forego the advantages which might be derivethfrom the greater advantage at the expiration of the period. The de-
removal of the cheeks which fetiered an important branch of crease of sales which would thus -he occasioned would cheek
trade, the the sake of a trifling remission of taxes. He must own the
activity of the manufacturers, and throw a great number. '
that until it had been stated in that House that what he viewed of operative weavers out of employ. If it were proposed gra-
ss disadvantages under which the silk trade was labouring were dually to bring about the alteration, the effect would be the same. .
not so considered by those who were concerned in that trade, Ile could assure the Committee-that his Majesty's Government
and that those persons who were most• immediately interested had given their best consideration to time subject and the reet It of
did not wish for any change in the laws affecting the trade,- he such consideration was, that they censidered it the wisest for
should grave felt exceedingly surprised that any person engaged order toromove all disquietude
from those who laboured tor t!:.:ir
in that trade should not most anxiously have wished to be re- 'daily subsistence, as well as to render the remission of time thud •
lieved from the shackles wherewith it was bound. He remora- las effectual. amid speedy as possible, that such remission sheu el
bered that in the last Session of Perliarnent almeat all the pt... 1 take-place, not from time Pith of July next, as was ori:t:ittttilr COn '''
sons engaged in that trade came to the House, and petitioned e templated, but as early as the 2iith of the preen. t L
im her.--
to be relieved from time restraints under which they laboured. I (Hear, hear !) i'd
By adopting this course his ajL,sty's ttAtn- -
—The Right Honourable Gentleman then' read an extract ! anent conceived that they should, hi ts
cave full
predent .
from a petition presented in the last Session ity the lion. Mem- i the . te stagnation of trade, and while they gave full employment to
ber for the City of London (Mr. T.- Wilson) from the silk me- the labouring artisan, would be ails cling to the manufacturer a
nufacturcrs of the City of London, stating that important as time . fresh stimnulus to extend his speculations. Another difficulty bad
manufacture of silk was acknowledged to be, and greatly int- -I however suggested itself, of which he (Mr. Huskisson) felt time •
proved as it then was, it was still greatly depressed, anti pre.. '
; full force. 1 t had been represented that the measure of his Right
vented by the existing laws from advancing to the height to 1 Hon. Friend would prove highly injurious to the capitalist who •
which it might be carried ; and expressing their confidence that, I had a large stock -of the raw material on hand. His Right Hon.
if the restrictions of which they complained wire removed, it 1 Friend had given that subject his fullest consideration ; and the might yet be placed in a state ultimately to triumph over foreign result was, that he conceived some arrangement might
be made
competition, and that silk, like cotton, might be rendered one which would prove satisfactory to the parties interested. The •
of the staple manufectures of the country.—(Hear, hear ! )—His 4 arrangemnent his Right Hon. Friend proposed was that those
Right Iron. Friend, therefore, came to the House under the I who had in their possesSioa any quantity of raw or thrown silk
conviction that this trade was greatly depressed by the syste:.t i not in manufacture might deposit the same in warehouses, and
under which the duties were collected, anci that it ought to be i receive a drawback upon the duty, which drawback or returned
entirely new regulated. He did not think that the manufacture 1 duty should be the difference between the proposed duty of 3d•
of a raw material imported from a foreign country autject to a ; per lb. with regard to raw, and 7s. (id. per lb. with regard to
heavy duty, carried on at a large advance of capital, and subject I thrown silk, and that now paid.—(Hear, hear o.._The effect
to a system of' regulations restricting the price of labour, was lof this arrangement would be that those engaged in the throw- • one which could be carried on to advantage. 'The Hon. ime 1 inf of silk would not have army motive the suspending their work,
bee for Taunton (Mr. Baring), in speaking of this subject,' had I wot'n they knew that they (yield have at army time a remission of
said, that this was not a native manufacture, and therefore ' the duty ; and thus the trade would experience, as lie said before,
ought not to be encouraged; intimating that manufactures, Ino stagnation or remission of its wonted activity. There was
like fruits, could only he grown i ' particular places; and, in no intention it was true of remitting the deity on the manufac- '
the same breath, lie had informed them that in Taunton (the tured article ; but titer it was not considerable in quantity, and
Borough which he represented),
_the only manufacture carried a if the principle of tho” who argued for a remission of such
on at present was that of silk, whereas thirty or forty years duty were admitted in the present instance, it would become a
ago the only manufacture there was woollen, which had now m very inconvenient Precedent upon future occasions. There
wholly disappeared. lie (Mr. IL) did not know who re. Woald be also a c?naiderable difficulty in ascertaining theamouet
presented that respectable Boroug h forty years ago in that,, of duty that ought to be taken off i as in consequence of time
House. It might be some leading merchant, some friend of free I stagnation of the trade, or from titer causes, a considerable
trade, some disciple of Dr. Adam Smith, whose book was pub. , fluctuation lied at diarent times prevailed in the price of the