The Sun.
London, England, 1823-05-13 00:00:00

SLAVERY.

. _
Earl GROSVENOR presented two petitions from the
Mayor, Burgesses, and Inhabitants of the Borough orShaftes.
bury, praying, the one for an alteration in tht Insolvent
Debtors' Act, and the other for the Abolition of Slavery in the
Colonies. He appealed to the humanity of the. House-whether
800,000 Slaves should be left in the state in wbicii they now ex-
isted in the Colonies, deprived even of the right of contracting
marriages, and that of giving evidence, and not allowed time to
attend to their religious duties. He hoped and trusted that a
Bill would be brought up from the other House to req!nd the
condition of so many unfortunate beings.
The Petitions were then read and laid on the table.

The iiiiar9ui;Of LANSIRYtirN presented a petition to the
same effect trom the Presbytery of Annan, in Seoclancl.—Laid
on the table. _

The Earl of HAREWOOD presented a similar petition
from the Inhabitants of Sheffield.—Laid on the table.
The Charitable Societies Loan Bill went through a Commit-
tee, and was ordered to be reported with amendments.
FRANCE AND SPAIN.
The Order of the Day having been read,
Earl GREY rose. When he reflected on the importance of
the war between Spain and France, on the manner in which it
might aflect this country, and on the dangers with which it
threatened the general peace of Europe, he trusted that their
Lordships would feel the necessity of obtaining the fullest
information upon every point connected with we subject.—
Having said this, he should not think it necessary to apolo-
gise for troubling them with several motions this night for ad-
ditional Papers. The first related to the capture of a Spanish
ship by a French cruiser, which must have sailed and have
had orders to capture, at the very time when the French Go-
vernment was most profuse of its assurances of a wish to
maintain peace. It had been said in another place, that as
soon as the fact had been known, an application had been made
to the French Government, and satisfactory answers, as far as
they went, had been returned. More time hail now elapsed, and
nformation of a more decisive nature had probably been re.
ceived. He wished that it should be produced, and should be,
happy to find that it contradicted the charge, and effectually
relieved the French Government from such an act of robbery
and plunder. His next motion should relate to the Proclama-
tion issued since the commencement of the war by the Spanish
Junta, established, or at least supported by the Duke of An-
gouleme. That Proclamation declared that all acts done by
the present Government of Spain since 1820, were null and void.
The consequence would be, that all engagements entered into by
that Government with foreign Powers, and amongst the rest that
concluded with us for the satisfaction of our merChants' claims,
would be null and void. He hoped that his Majesty's Ministers
would be able to shew that such a proclamation had not re.
ceived the sanction of France, or that if it had, they had made
proper representations on the subject to the Frepch Govern-
ment. Ile should therefore move for copies or extracts of all
information received respecting that proclamation—of all re-
presentations made by the British Government upon it—and of
the answers returned to those representations. The third point
to which lie shank! draw their Lordships' attention related to
the situation in which France stood with respect to the Sovereigns
of the Holy Alliance. It was most important to know whether
she was acting at present in perfect concert with theni, sure of
their support if she needed it, or whether she was engaged in
a strictly national war. Betrayed as our interests hadsbeen,
and exposed to so much danger as we were in conse-
quence of the misconduct of his Majesty's Ministers during
the late negociations, lie felt called upon to say something
on the subject, but should first establish his right to say it.
The Noble Earl opposite had alluded some time since to his
former opinions with respect to Spain, for the purpose of
making it appear that they were inconsistent with those which
be now entertained. An attack bad alto been made upon
him in another place, for what purpose he knew not : but as it
was of consequence to him that lie should not be made to ap-
pear a man of such light principles, as to be turned,with every
change of the wind, and as it was of consequence also that
the cause which he advocated should not be prejudiced by any
imputed inconsistency of his, he should beg leave to refer to
the cyinion which he had tintertained and expressed on the
Spanish question in 1810. He had then contended, that in

order to justify a declaration of war, it was not only necessary
to establish the justice of the cause, but that the interests of
the country were involved in it, and that means existed of
acting with effect. Those principles were not principles for
the day or the morrow ; they were for all times. He then
read several passages from his speech in 1810, to show that
there was not one word which intimated a want of readiness to
support the cause of Spain.- . The
.quotation made in another
place had been done with an unfelr view, to induce a belief
that he had then recommended something like a shrinking from
that cause, in which he had felt the most ferveat zeal. But he
appealed to those friends around him, whether his heart had not
been filled with indignation by the most unprincipled attack of
Neapoleon upon Spam—no, not the most unprincipled, for it
had since been equalled, and whether there was any assist-
ance which this country could give that he was not willing to
afford. At the conclusion of that very speech, so far from re-
commending peace, he had said,- that " locking to the nature '
of' the contest, to the power of France, and to the spirit std
character of the Government of that country, he was convinced
that that event would be best promoted b showing that we lies-
sessed the means and the will to support the war." Ilis feelings,
his opinions were the same-=the only differetiee was as to the
most advantageous mode of carrying on a war which we. were
bound to support. That his sentiments had always been the
same towards Spain would been proved by the evidence of his
private correspondence at the time, as well as by his public acts.
It would be seen by his language, when moving in 1809 the
censure of that House for the misconduct which had produced
the misfortunes of Sir John hloore's expedition. If on consi-
dering the situation of England, Europe and Spain at the time,
it did not appear to him that the interference of this country
was likely to secure Spain or herself from 'danger, the opinion
might be erroneous; but under the same circumstances he
should still entertain it. The Noble Earl then described the
state of the whole Continent in 1809, either incorporated with
France, or yielding implicit obedience to her will, whilst the
French armies were bombarding Cadiz. Ile read a letter front
4tar,shai-souit to Budder, describing the joy with which the
inhabitants of Seville had witnessed the entrance of the French
into their city, and the popularity of the Ring (Joseph Napo-
leon.) He really thought that the Secretary of the Duke of
Angouleme had that letter before him when he composed his
late dispatches. That showed however that all those appear•
ances of welcome might exist, and yet that a real and ultimately
a successful resistance might be maintained. Ile confessed that
three events had then taken place which he had not foreseen. He
had not foreseen that Napoleon would, for the first time, depart
from the principle which he had observed in all his wars, that of
finishing one thing before lie commenced another. He had not
foreseen that he would have diverted the war from Spain to.
Austria ; nor that after having used his main force to establish
his continental system, he should have marched to attack
Russia. He had said that Napoleon's invasion of Spain was
perfidious and unjust; that of Louis XVIII. was no less per-
hdious and unjust, but it possessed a still more odious quality,
ingratitude. Napoleon owed the sceptre which he wielded to
his own prowess; but Louis XVIII. was mainly indebted to
the bravery. perseverance,• and exertions of the Spaniards for
his restoration to the throne, and yet it was against their coun-
try that he directed the power which he held from them ! Neither
had he (Lord Grey) after witnessing the disgraceful convention
of Cintra, the ruinous expedition to 'Welchem, and the
disasters of Sir John Moore, foreseen the rising of that great
military genius which hadrepaired all those errors and changed
the fate of the war. Looking back therefore at the circum.
stances of the times, he felt that under the same circumstances
be should still hold the sanie opinions. Nobody khew . better
what had always' been his sentiments respecting Spain, than
the person who to get an 'advantage in debate had made an
attack upon him, where he could not be to answer for him- '
self. It was most extraordinary that a person knowing his
sentiments so well should have selected a partial extract to
kintraet it with the opinions which he had lately expressed.—
When in 1812 Mr. Verceval had been so unfortunately killed,
the Noble Earl opposite had naturally sought to • strengthen
his adininiseration' an application had made a application to Mr. Can-
ning, who asked for time to consult his friends. On the
18th of May, 1812, Mr. Canning wrote ta the Noble Earl
that he had consulted his Mends, and that they were of
opinion that if he joined the Noble Earn' administration, he
would incur such a loss of personal and public character as
would defeat the intended object which was to strengthen the
Cabinet. To become part of your administration,' said Mr.
Canning, " with my previous knowledge of your determination
to oppose the extension of emancipation to his Majesty's
Roman Catholic "subjects, would be to sacrifice my fixed
opinions," Sec. Ile (Lord Grey) did not
.inquiie whetheiehlr.
Canning had now chairged his opinione on that subject; but he
did not believe that the Noble Lord opposite had. Neither did
he think that his Noble and Learned Friend on the Woolsack
bad altered his, even to gain that summon bo:iu zn, the accession
to the Cabinet of Mr. Canning, whom he hail lately wished well
in any part of the world.—(A. laugh.)—But indeed, when he
had read Mr. C.'s speech at Liverpool,he hail said at once, " Mr.
Canning will not go to India, he will soon be in office." After
Mr. Canning's refusal in 1812 to join the Noble Earl's adminis-
trationeen attempt was made to form altogether anew one, and the
Marquis of Wellesley and Mr. Cannighad made propositions
to him (Esti (Grey) and to his Noble Friends, on the following
conditions :—.lst. That the state of the laws respecting the Ca-
tholics should be taken into immediate consideration, with a
view to the repeal of the disabilities under which they la.
bottred.-2dly. That the war in the Peninsula should be pro-
secuted on a scale of adequate t igntir. It was riot necessary
to say that the first of those propositions had their most un-
qualified assent. With respect to the second they stated that
no one could feel more strongly than they did how desirable
it was to bring the war to a successful termination, but that in
their opinion it was a question,• not of principle, but of po-
licy to be regulated by circumstances by the prospect ef suc-
cess and by the means of the country. These answers had
been so satisfactory both to Mr. Canning, and to the Mar-
quis Wellesley. that the latter had said in a letter to him
(Earl Grey) " I cannot lose this opportunity, of assuring
your Lordship, that from the sentiments which you have
express • ed in your letter, if time advice which I shall think it
toy duty to offer to the Prince Regent shoold prevail; it ap-
pears to me that a most promising prospect opens to the coun-
try, for securing its internal peace, and prosecuting the war
with effect." That a person who was in possession of such
evidence of his sentiments should have acted as he had done,
was one of the most extraordinary occurrences which had yet
happened, and he must add, one of the most unfair occurrences
which had ever taken place in the political world. But enough
and too much of that. The next motions which he should make
would be for copies or extracts of any communications made by
the Governments of Austria, Jimmie, and Prussia, to the Bri-
tish Government, of their intention to make common cause
with France, and of the representations made in reply on the
part of his Majesty's Government. Ile should also move for
copies or extracts of similar communications reepeeting the as.
sembling of a Russian army in Poland, thehalt of the Austrian
troops in the Milanese, and the movements of Prussian corps in
the Rhenielt Provinces, and'ofilhe representations made by the
British Government, in consequence of those demonstrations. The Noble Earl contended, that the production of those paper.
was necessary to chew whether the present content was merely
a national war between France and Spain, or one carried on,
as he believed it was, on a common principle with the Allies.
He then entered into a long examination of the manner in
which the late negotiations had been conducted. Ile maintainediliat the Secretary for Foreign Affairs had Liken undue credit
to himself, for having prevented t} Allies from anoint
Declaration at Verona, as the separate notes which toy had
sent enswereil the same purpoee. He should be glad to find,
however, that the price of our neutrality had been, or was to be,
the neuteality of the Allies. Ile thought ehat beeides wishing to
put down free institutions, France was actuat ed in her attack upon
Spain by views of hostility towards us. He appealed as a proof
of this, to the propositions secretly inade by France M the Spa-
nish Ministers, which were all inimical to our interests. Ile
appealed to the speeches in the French Chambers, and to the
fact that 101)0 men were now emplayedilaily in enlarging the
basin at Dunkirk, the most dangerous position to this country
which could he occupied by the French navy. lie asked whe.
ther the Proclamation issued by the Duke of Angoulenie on
entering Spain did not imply perfect reliance on the aid of the
Powers of the Continent. Lie believed that a firm remonstrance
made in time on the part of this country might have prevented
the war ; but if it bad not done that it would at least have
placed us in a better situation. Great as those Powers were, they
were still in some degree depeutlent on public opinion ; that of all
Europe would have been with us, and would, if they had ven.
tured to go to war, have shaken their thrones to their founda-
tions. He feared that the Royalist party in Spain, though
weaker if lett to itself, might with the aid of a French army
produce a counter-revolution. Ferdinand would then be re-
stored to his despotic throne, with the mockery of a Constitu-
tion ; he would become a Member of the confederacy against

The Earl of LIVERPOOL should oppose the Noble Earl's
motion, because lie had not made any Parlianientary ground
for them. At the same time he should give such explanation
as he trusted would fully answer the Noble Earl's oh.
ject. With respect to the captere ok a, Spanish veesel
by the French ship the Jeern.Berrt, the .Rreneh Government
had shown the greatest anxiety, even before arii applica-
tion had been made to them, to say that they bad-no know_
ledge of the act, and afterwards to declare, in answer to Sir
Charles Stuart's inquiries, that no order whatever had
been given to the French Admiralty to make captures—
Within a few days intelligence bad been received from our
own Commander in the West Indies, that instead of 'oc-
curring in consequence of orders from the French Govern-
ment, the capture of the Spanish letter of marque had been
occasioned by her attacking the Jean-Bart, at night, when
the latter, as it was perfectly justified in doing, fought and took
her. With respect to the Proclamation of the Provisional
Spanish Government, he would say that we had no commu.
nication whatever with that Government, that the Proclama-
tion had not been transmitted to us by that of France, which,
on the contrary, completely denied the fact of the Proclama-
tion. With regard to the consistency of the Noble Karl's opi:
nions, it had never been meant to say.that he bad not had the
feeling of a pan and of an Englishman when the original attack
was made upon Spain; but that whilst his opinions and his
conduct were then consistent together, his present opinions and
conduct were no longer soe The question now was, whether
he was prepared to give them effect in the only way in which he
could give them effect, and on that the question of war or
peace depended. Ceeetainly after the glorious defence of his
Noble Friend (the Duke of %Vellgton) at Torres Vedras, the
Noble Earl had made some altffation in his sentiments, yet
the whole tenour of his speech in 1812 was to throw cold
water upon the contest in Spain. He had blamed the em.
ployement of our whole military force in the Peninsula, but
was there a place where it could have been better employed ?
lie would not say that the victory of Europe had been gained,
but it had been begun there. The battle of Salamanca had en-
couraged the Russians to resist, and that of Vitoria, he knew,
had caused the armistice of 1813 to terminate as it hail done, the
Allies to come forward again, and the important day of Leipe;c
to be gained. The Noble Earl then defended the conduct of his
Majesty's Ministers during the late negociations. As to the es-
sembling of armies, it had certainly been stated that Russia bad
collected troops in Poland, and Austria detained hers in the
Milanese, but he saw no reason to believe that those Powers
had any object in view but of a defensive nature. At all events
those armies were assembled within their own territories,
where they had a right so have them. lie combatted the
idea, that any threat could have prevented France from
going to war, whether her motives be fear or ambition__
What would she have cared for the capture of a few fisher.
men, and of a colony or two. The time was passed. when
such considerations could have weighed. It would be useless
to go to war for Spain unless a British army. be sent there.—
If France possessed all the means she ought to possess to enable
her to go through this contest, what, he would ask of those who
condemned what had been done, ought this country to do?--
He knew it was easy to answer—send the Noble 'Juice near
him with an army to Spain. He very well understood the logic
of those who could recommend such a course ; and he also
very well understood that it would be certain to secure our
own individual glory. But beyond that he could go no far-
ther. As for the counsel given by the Noble lewd opposite,
be spoke with the utmost sincerity when he said, that he con.
:tittered it the most unwise that any reflecting man could offer,
or any responsible man accept. If this country were to go to
war for Spain, it must go to war in Spain, and with all the
energies of the country. But when he heard this advice he
could not, help recollecting words which had come from the 1
same quarter in the course of the last war in Spain, and
that too at some of the most critical periods of it--and he
asked their Lordships had they not all heard rwith him
of " husbanding their resources." (Hear, hear !)—, That
was what be (the Earl of Liverpool) advised them to do
now—he said " husband your resources"—for that purpose
preserve the peace, and if you do go to war, do it like men.
(Hear hear, heart)--Int the latter sentiment he was glad to
have the concurrence of the Noble Duke near him, and of
another great authority in such cases; who were or opinion
with him that it would little suit the taste of this. country, or
of them, to be subjected to sit passively by anti see all the
great chalices of a great contest go by them without the possi-
bility
of their putting up for them. No man that be had
ever seen who was successful in war, but what was a lover of
peace. Ile did not quarrel with the Noble Lord's general semi-
' rnent ; but of its application in 'lBlO ; for he looked at the ad-
dress, and he did not find one word there about Spain, Portugal,
or the war. But in 1810, we were at war without the hope of being
~:aeon at peace, and then we had nothing to do but take the best
place for the scene of our exertions. Now, however, the case
was so fat different, that we were at peace, and now, there-
fore, it was that the prudential maxims of the Noble Lord ought
to apply rather than in the other and opposite case. But be-
sides this, the state of Spain itself was very different in 1808 to
what it was at present. Then it was an united country, and
there was no difference of sentiment as to the contest going
on. Was that the case now ? Were there not two parties at
least, and were they not equally balanced, the one as strongly
against a Constitution as the other was in favour of one ?
Was it not a country where the enthusiasm of' those who were
engaged to pull down the Constitution was as strong as those
who were opposed to them on the opposite principle ? Ile
undertook to say that it was so. But he did not state this to
justify the French in the part they were playing. He stated it
for other purposes—as a fact seriously affecung questions of
justice and policy. An army now landed in the Peninsula
would not be embarked with Spain egainst France, but with a
part of Spain only. They knew very well which was the
cause that had Ferdinand nominally at its head, but they -did
not kr.ow which was the real Spanish cause. Was it not then
under such circumstances a matter of consideration how we
embarked in a war having one part of the country securely
joined with us in the cause and in theevent P The same reason.
ing, therefore, he contended, could-Dot be applied to two dif-
ferent situations. In 1808 the country was at war : in 1823
it was not at war. In 1808 we had a united country to engage
with us, and for whom we engaged ; in 11323 we had a divided
country. When he said that, he said all that could be urged
on the score of prudence, and he left their Lordships. to judge
how the question of war ought to bedaecit dseude.cesNs.otwun,lhosecnattidhee
ing what had been said, he must confess that he looked with
the Mlle apprehension at failure, as
late Ruler of France made war upon his neighbours, he not
only pained myriads into the country of his enemies, but he
made that country support the war—he made every war sup-
port itself. As he got possession of each country that he at-
tacked, he drew soldiers from it, not to carry on the contest
against its own interests, but to serve in some other war. Thus
it was that that individual made the war feed itself. Their Lord.
ships would not be backward in perceiving the distinction be-
twixt the eases of the late wars of France and the present one.
Let them consider what expense that country woud be put to--
and let them consider that her permanent security, reputation,
and power were engaged in a contest which threatened to ex-
flatlet her means and resources. The whole doctrine of the
Noble Lord opposite mime to this—you must go to war, be=
cause etnnething may happen, God 'knows what, which may
render it necessary._( Hear, bear o—Now, he (the Earl of Li-
verpool) said, wait till that something, God knows what, an.
rive.—(llenr„ hear was for taking the present good, for
coloying the present advantage. He saw no difficulty which
this country could not face, and successfully overcome, if the
proper Course were taken at present He said, enjoy, es far
as we can, the blessing* of peace, preserve it if possible; hilt it
we go to war, do not look fora cheap war, do not think it will
end with one campaign. When once the scabbard is thrown
away no man can tell how long the contest may last—how
nitwit it may cost.. Prepare for war, and when it comes go
into it like men ; and for that purpose hitsband yoUr resources;

now. When war was once lit up in Europe there was no say-
ing when it night end. It was the just positron of this country
to do all.in its power to prevent war in Europe. We wished
not to excite daesention for the sake of profiting by it—we
wished peace for all. It was said by the Noble Lord that the
Holy Alliance were engaged in a war against the liLertics cif
mankind. He really had not expected any thing so chimerical
from him. It was well known this Government did not concur
in many of the principles put forth by the Holy Alliance, and
no opportunity had been omitted of informing them of our dis-
sent. If there were dangers on the one hand of arbitrery Go-
vernments, he could not conceal from himself that there were
also dangers on the other, in new and arbitrary doctrinec----
( Hear i)—Our position ought to be in such a case, moral—po-
litical as well as military. The Noble Earl concluded by de.
daring his dissent from the motion before the House.
Lord HOLLAND thoughathe Noble. Earl who had just tat
down was pushing the good oppinion which he, in corjenction
',yid) the rest of their Lordships, entertained of his talents,
when, in order to dissuade them from war in Spain, one part
of his speech was employed in detailing to them the successes
of the British arms in that country, and in anotie r part ad-
dressing an English House of Lords, in trying down the
wooden walls- -of Old England, in favour of military enter.
prises. The argument, heldeea of the Noble Earl, made as
much one.waycasrwrother. For instance, he called upon the=
gravely to consider that a war in Spain would not he e cheap
war, arid that nothing but our utmost exertions would do -so
such a contest, and then be immediately turned rotnid and
said, you know not what the Spaniards can do by thentselves.
Then egain as to the great exertions we were to make, in his
opinion the Noble Earl greatly underrated the value of the
alliance of this country. lie said very truly, that if one brie
{ado were landed in Spain, we became principals m the war.
But were we but to appear in the scene in any shape, it
would spread dismay and consternation.
" Let but Achilles on the mound appear,
And all the host of Troy consent to beer."
And well might he say so ; for we had our Achilles,, EMT \Tule
Cans, and our Neptunes, the victors over the sea and, land.
The Noble Lord, the President of the I'rivy Council had told
them that France would not dart attack Portugal ; for the knew
that if she did England would be upon her back, dud 'England
would become a military Power on the Continent, and
that a fleet would he sent to her West India Celoniee. How
was it then, if this were the case, they were told that a naval
force would be °inn use to the Spaniards ? How was it that
it would not do as well for the march to Madrid, as the attack
upon Portugal ? History had shewn that the 'natural warfare
of the Spaniards was in their mountain-parties, and their cone
tests in the recesses of their country. When left to themselves,
the Spaniards were unconquerable. W hen the Noble Earl
spoke of the inutility of a British force in Spain, because it
was a divided country, be should recollect that when the last
British force landed there, every fortress was in the hands of
the enemy. He could almost' think the greet. poet. of an.
tiquity had a foresight or knowledge of the Weirs of Spain.
when he made the goddess descend from Heaven to advise
how the weak should attack the strong—a part whish the
bad taste of Mr. Pope had induced him not to trunslate.—
Homer made the goddess inspire her hero with the courage of
a fly, with that insatiable love of blood, that often beaten off
always returned to the attack. The Noble Lord in allusion to
the Congress of Verona observed, that in our negociations with
Foreign Powers we sometimes had the character of great
moralists, sometimes of great jurists, but, never of skilful di.
plomatists for the interests of Great Britain. The Noble Earl
opposite said in substance with reference to the present war,
that if France had the power she would succeed with regard to
Spain, and have all the honour belonging to it. But it wss
the same thing whether France did it single-handed or not ;
for if she fell back in defeat she would be supported by horde*
of Northern Barbarians, ready, even now to overrun the
"Western States," anti the honour of the conquest of Spain
. would be divided amongst four of five Powers msteed of or.e
Thus it would be just the same for .Spain either way. The
Noble Fail boasted of the British achievements at Congress
e
in preventing a joint Declaration of the Powers against
Spain; but with this view of the case, what was the value of
it ? It reminded him of it ridiculous awry of a Frenchman,
whose friend was sick, and sending for an unmerciful quack,
he advised the sick man to take forty pills, whieh he gave
him. The Frenchmen succeeded in dissuading his friend
from taking more than five by way of trial; but these five
were of such a drastic nature, that after ltarraesiog the poor
patient for a few days, he died. tt Now," said the Freecie.
man, " how fortunate I advised him to -take only five; ter
just consider what would have been the consequence had he
taken the whole forty."—(Laughter.)—Thus it wes with the
Noble Earl's joint declaration, it would come to the ..!nle
end. As far as English interest were concerned, it was ire.,
possible Spain could be too democratic. It was a proverb in
the mouth of every peasant and muleteer in Spain—" Peace
with England, and war with all the world beside;" and this
went deep into the hearts of all people in that country. lia
strongly deprecated the conduct of this country to its old ally,
Portugal, especially in forbidding her to join in the war with
Spain against Prance. 411 e should prefer going to wir to ale
lowing the French to trample on the liberties of tenaie, or le,
the opposite shores to Ireland getting into the hands of thole
religious fanatics calling themselves the Bands of the Faith.
The honour of this country demanded, either that of Veiona;
we should have declared that an attack upon Spain would be
answered by our appearance in arms, or have abstained alto•
gether from the discussion, and left the Coegress. Although
it did not properly belong to the subject, he could not conclude
without-again protesting against the course pursued by the Go-
vernment of this country with respect to Spain.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH thought that the Noble Earl op.
posise agreed so far with the Noble. Lords who spoke on Ili*
side of the House, in their premises, that he could not but
agree in their conclusions. It was not only the conduct of the
Holy Alliance as regarded Naples, Piedmont, and Spain nor
their conferences at Troppau, Laybach, and Verona, that justi-
fied a jealousy as to their principles. It was their whsle con-
duct, including the internal regulations, ever since the peace of
1814, that naturally excited di trust, and the cesitvictiou that
they were united against the liberties of Europe. It wes a
mistake to suppose the policy of this country was to bncotne
principal in a land war. The ancient policy had always been
that we should send an auxiliary. A small squadron to the
coast of Catalonia just now would be worth more than 1200
men, by reason of the military difficulties of the conetry.—
There were three great -points in Spain now occupied by Spa-
nish troops, which would adroit of. successful naval 'aid being
altrded. He could not 'view this war as a contest between
France and Spain; he must consider it as a consecutive war
of the Holy Alliance. It was a war which threatened the eon.
ailtutitution of this country more than any other. Ile could
not think it was the policy of this country to remain neuter in
contests between despots and free people. Against that policy
he protested as dishonourable to England.
Lord CALTHOItI'E supported the motion. He took a
review of the British negociatioas at Verona, expressing it
hope that peace might be preserves!, but deprecating the mild
tone in which our expostulations were made. He strongly
reprehended the conduct of France, but he could not but think
that her's was a war more of fear than aggrssition. Yet had
it been-pointed out to the faction which had urged that coup,
try to her present iniquitous conduct, that it was likely to bring
the reigning family into jeopardy, it would probably have been
prevented. He did not, however, mean to blame his Majesty's
Government fey having preserved the blessings of peace to the
country.
The questionl was then_ put, and the Address negatived with.•
out a division ; and the House adjourned at Ten o'clock.