The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-19 00:00:00

IORNING EDITION

Chancellor of the Exchequer. The Chancellor of the
Exchequer had said that it was probable that the West
Indian colonies of this country would produce more than
sufficient to meet the demand, nay,. that it would furnish
sufficient for exportation; if such was the case, where he
would ask was the necessity for such a measure as the
present, because reduced prices would be obtained by
the increased supply of the sugar of the colonies of the
country? In former years it was well known the sugar
from the colonies of this country was more than suffi-
cient for the supply of the United Kingdom, and prices'
in England, before the experiment he had adverted to,
were tie same as in the colonies. He believed the differ-
ence between the prices in this country and the con-
tinental prices, was to be attributed to the state of the
money market in this country. He thought the attempt
to introduce this measure, fraught, as it was, with so
much, danger, was little less than insanity on the
part of her Majesty's Governirrent.—(Hear, hear.)
But then it was said that the measure came before
them, recommended not only because it would improve
the finances of the country, but would lead to different
fiscal regulations. For his own part he could not see
anything in the principles that had been propounded by
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that would lead to free
trade. He thought that those who wished for applause
out of doors—(Hear, hear)—ought to state clearly what
the real principles were on which they intended to act,
and that, he would venture to say, her Majesty's Minis-
ters had not done. The course -Ole Government was now
pursuing, was, in effect, obtaining votes under false pre-
tences.—(Hear, hear.) They said they intended to give
protection ; but, for his own part, he could not see how
they intended to carry out such a proposition. In the
course of this discussion some observations had been
thrown out by Honourable Members, upon what
they were pleased to call class interests, as if they
were separate interests. Such, however, was not
the case ; for those interests which had been re-
ferred to were the interests of the country generally.
He condemned the impolicy of legislating for class in-
terests, as such; but they should consider in the first
place how much their own interests, and wealth, and
prosperity, were bound up with these particular classes.
H the opinions of the Government were oppposed to
such principles, the sooner these places were filled by
better men, the better it would be for the interests of
the country.—(Hear, hear.) If it could be shown that
it would be more beneficial for the country, that the in-
terests of the landowner should not be protected, then
he should be ready to adopt the principles of Hon.
Members opposite. If it could be shown that their
colonies, by their interchange with the mother country,
derived no benefit whatever—that they derived neither
wealth nor strength nor advantage from the union, let
that be proved to his satisfaction, and he should no lon-
ger advocate the protection of a particular class or in-
terest.—gear, hear.) But it was because their well-
being, their safety, and their strength were inseparably
connected with that of the general public, that they had
judiciously and wisely extended to them that protection
which he believed was for the common interest of all.
—(Hear, hear.) Whenever it should happen that the
agricultural, the colonial, and the shipping interests of
that country would be deemed by the House undeserving
of protection, then he should say that the honour, the
glory, and the tower of that great empire would have
passed away. He should give his hearty concurrence to
the resolution of the Noble Lord the Member for Liver-
pool.-e-(Loud cheers.)
Mr. VILLIERS said, during the time he had had
the honour of a seat in that House, he did not remember
having listened to any Hon. Member with more interest
than to the Hon. Member for Harwich. The Right
Hon. Gentleman had presided over the finances of the
country, and according to the general opinion enter-
tained at the present time, he would do so again.
It became, therefore, matter of much interest to hear
the Right Hon. Gentleman's opinion upon the financial
project before the House, and to hear what he might ad-
vance against it, or what he proposed to institute in its
stead. He did not remembet to have been more sur-
prised or disappointed on'any occasion thadat the result
of his speech. The' Right lion. Gentleman said they
were in a great financial ettiergency-that they `tvere in
a very critical state of their finances, and that that was
entirely owing to the feebleness of the present Govern-
ment. All he could learn from the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman was that he' had objected to the proposition of
the Government ; but he did not state anything which
he did propose himself. 'The Right Honourable
Gentleman had asked whether they really considered
that these class interests were maintained—that
these monopolies and protections were maintained
by law, for the purpose of support of parti-
cular interests, and not for the public good. In
answer to that question, he (Mr. Villiers) had notobjec-
tion to state that he believed that it was for the purpose
of supporting these particular interests, and against the
national good that these monopolies were maintained.—
(Hear, hear.) That was the answer which the advocates
of free trade offered to the Right Hon. Gentleman. It
appeared to him that the Right Hon. Gentleman had
only added one to the many reasons that had been urged in
the course of that discussion, and if they had gone to a
division on the first, second, or third night of the de-
bate, he wished to know whether the public could have
learned the grounds upon which Hon. Members pro-
ceeded to the division ? By the protraction of the debate,
they had elicited the sentiments of Hon. Members, and
they knew the grounds on which opposition was given
to the Ministerial project. Those who complained of the
discussion being protracted had to consider under what
eircuttestances the resolution had been moved by the
Noble Lord the Member for Liverpool, and what it was
he proposed to do. It would be observed that the
moment predicted by some and denied by others, and tile
existence of which none could doubt, a moment of great
financial difficulty in connexion with, if not caused by,
great commercial embarrassment—that crisis had been
alluded to. with great levity by some Hon. Members op-
posite as having occurred periodically since the time of
George the Second, and as having in every instance
remedied itself. It was at that moment that the Noble
Lord took advantage of the period when the Government
generally expounded the state of the finances of the
country—at a moment when the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer stated to them that they were in a state of '
financial difficulty, and proposed certain means by which
those difficulties might be met. If he understood the
scheme of the Right Hon. Gentleman, it was this—that
inasmuch as the revenue was derived from taxation of
the expenditure and consumption of the community,
to maintain that revenue and relieve the community it
was important to increase the means of consumption, and
improve the capacity of the consumer. It was at such a
moment that the Noble Lord
ofd
his counter-revo-
lution, opposing the scheme of the Government on par-
ticular grounds. If he (Mr. Villiers) understood the
prep?eiteen of the Government, it was that fetters and
restrictiens upon their trade tended to injure the industry
and commerce of the country. It appeared to him that
these restrictions had been imposed to benefit and main-
tain particular interests and monopolies, and they could '
not therefore be surprised that great resistance
should be offered to the propositions of the
Governinent.—(Cheers.) But the present intelligence
of the conetry would not longer suffer these things to be
done, end it behoved Hon. Members opposite not to re-
eist the measure of the Government on these grounds,
l.ut to suggest some others. He did not mean to im-
pute motives t s the. Noble Lord the Member for Liver-
pool, lest ic.appeared to him (Mr; Villiers) that he had
aseittned reasons for his resolution which his friends did
not eatintain. The Noble Lord had contended that, not-
withstereling the distress of the country, and the on-
barraesent nee of its commerce, there were prior claims
in the condition of the negro race in a foreign country.
It was cleer that the question of the policy of the Go-
vernment hael been raised during the present discussion,
and as that policy involved principles which he had
never lost an opportunity of advocating, he could not
help expressing his sincere satisfaction that they had
been so distinctly recognised by the Government.—
(Cheers.) Whatever other consequences might flow
from the debate, he believed the discussion would
establish the truth of these principles, and it
was impossible to exaggerate the importance, or
overrate the advantages of adopting the principles of
the Government. Those principles had been the sub-
ject of derision and contempt on former occasions in
that House ; and although many Hon. Members on the
opposite side appeared anxious to proclaim themselves
the advocates of free trade, yet it appeared to him that
the speech of the Noble Lord the Member for North
Lancashire, which had been much relied upon by his
friends, and much referred to by his party, was calcu-
' lated rather to suppress these opinions, and to reconcile
those conflicting elements of which his party was com-
posed. It appeared to him, that so far from elucidating
the subject the Noble Lord had thrown it into greater
foonfusion, and that he had drawn a weapon from the
armoury of the Right Honourable Baronet the Mem-
ber for Tamworth, namely, the dressing up an
argument or statement, not to suit the House, but
for the purpose of
imposing upon the House. The Noble
Lord said that he did not advocate the principles
of free trade, to the extent of communities beteg per-
/flitted to purchase in the cheapest markets,. or of no
taxes being maintained for the protection of particular
classes ; but on the other hand he endeavoured to vindi-
cate.himself from being the advocate of monopoly. The
Noble Lord said that his principle was
Now, competition,
he
subject to limitation, or limited by protection.
'wanted to know how that was inconsistent with mono-
poly, , or any protective policy in existence The lan d-
iords might ask him what he meant by competition
• limited by protection, and his answer would be the pre-
sent Corn-law. The West Indian interests might ask
him what he meant by it, and his answer would be the
present protective duty on foreign sugar. In the
same way his answer to the shipping interest might ,
that it would enable them to pay a high price for rotten
timber. In short, there was no injury to their interest
which might not be defended by the definition of
the Noitle Lord's principles of commercial policy.
The question of protection must now be discussed.
Every person mast state what he meant by that term.
It was a question now before the House and the country.
It had been defined by many who had experienced—who
had paid attention to the subject, as a tax on the com-
munity for the benefit or advantage of particular classes.
If there were persons who held a different opinion on
the subject, now was the time to state them. The public
were watcing anxiously to hear what each person would
say, and theywould judge them according to their
statements. Men of experience and information who
had been examined before Committees of that House
had defined protection as something indefensible regard-
ing the public interest, arid as existing only for the be-
nefit of particular classes. The Noble Lord the Mem-
ber for North Lancashire said that he was
not for free trade, but for competition, subject
to protection but the Government themselves
proposed nothing else—their object was protection.
ay., it was necessary for those who supported Govern-
anotint tincessatts tinctiv what the Government meant by
peek loos FIO
il eAVdr. Villiers) did not collect from the
siesees*ec.W.of the ,
reset*Leate- underetoOd Teord the Secretary for the Colonies,
%Protection some object which it
esl.'esaiaiiisira,lite to ettaid The Noble Lord did not view
.protesetion as an endr'but as a means to some end. He

_ _
.

(Mr. Villiers) understood the proposition of the Govern-
ment to be founded on the principle of free trade. He
understood the Government to say with respect to cer-
tain restrictions which exist under the system of protec-
tion, we will deal tenderly with them, but our principle
.is liberty to commerce, and the ultimate removal of those
restrictions. He did not understand from anything
which fell from Hon. Gentlemen opposite that they took
the same view of prOtection. They took a view
consistent with that of the Right Honourable
Member for Harwich (Mr. Herries) that ,it was
necessary to protect certain classes.—(Hear.) He
(Mr. Villier) begged further to state, that he considered
that system of protection as most unfair and unjust,
when applied to this country; particularly so when not
applied generally, and as regarded the persons who were
made the exceptions. The landed proprietors, the West
Indian planters, and the ship-builders, had no more
right to the laws which protected their several interests,
than the working men had to laws which should protect
them against the application of machinery to the produc-
tion of manufactures. They knew that claims had been ad-
vanced by the working classes to be protected against
the use of machinery, and that a notion prevailed among
those people that they had a right to such protection;
and they were not wrong, according to the principles
advanced and supported by some Honourable Gentle-
men with respect to protection. But the claims of
these poor men were met as if arising from their
ignorance. There was not a particle of the grounds
on which they were refused the protection they sought,
that was not adopted by Hon. Gentlemen who made that
refusal. Railroads might be objected to on the same
principle on which the proposition of Government was
opposed. They involved the ruin of many individuals
residing in towns on•the old lines ; but why were they,
nevertheless, established ? On the principle that the
creneral good ought to be preferred to that of particular
classes. The principles to which he now gave utterance
he had, on former occasions, when he brought forward the
question of the Corn-laws, professed and expressed in
that House, and he repeated them now only because the
public attention was at the present time particularly di-
rected to the subject—because the public mind was ex-
cited on the matter, and because those who maintained
opposite principles were obliged to enter into a vindication
of them. He knew not why it was the Right Hon.
Baronet the Member for Tamworth's speech on the pre-
sent occasion was so anxiously looked forward to. The
Right Hon. Baronet had spoken on this subject on vari-
ous occasions. Perhaps the anxiety arose from the belief
that circumstances had so far changed that some change
must have also taken place in the Right Hon. Baronet's
opinions. If the Right Hon. Baronet opposed the motion
of the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies—if he
opposed all change in the Corn-laws, he would be per-
fectly consistent, because the Right Hon. Baronet had
opposed every Committee of Inquiry into the subject.
There were no circumstances under which a Committee
on that subject had been proposed in which the Right
Hon. Baronet had not given his opposition to the pro-
position " under those circumstances." But the Right Hon.
Gentleman had. however, by something which he
he had said, excited hopes and expectations in some of
his commercial friends, and hence the intense interest
that existed as to the opinions which he might now ex-
press. It was high time that this question should be
decided some way or other. The pretexts were so vari-
ous which had been urged against the consideration of
the subject, that the time had arrived when the persons
who opposed the motion must say they had some other
grounds than those hitherto assigned. One of the
grounds stated by one of the Hon. Members for York-
shire for supporting the Corn-law monopoly was, that
they were not so weak as to abandon an advantage
which they had the power to maintain. That was the
real state of the question—it was a question between the
rights of the people and the power :of the landlords.
There were not ten people out of that. House—nor
any within it—who believed that s the resolution
of the Noble Lord the Member for Liverpool (Lord
San,don), contained the real ground of objection to the
motion before the House. The question was not dis-
cussed on that, ground. It was on the round that great
changes were expected, and that the measure was pro-
posed by her Majesty's Government, that the approach-
ing division was about to take place. The people of the
United States had the same right to exclude our manu-
factures from their ports as we to exclude slave-grown
sugar from this country. And it was not improbable
that they would exclude our manufactures in conse-
quence of their aversion to our Corn-laws. He had a
few days ago received a paper from America, in which it
was stated that they took the same view of our Corn-
laws that we did of their system of slavery—that the
merchants and farmers regarded the Corn-laws ofEngland
and the slave trade as belonging to the same class
of establishments. The Hon. Gentleman read a long ex-
tract from an American pamphlet which he had lately
received, in which the writer spoke of the Corn-laws of
England as prejudicial to the people of this country, and
such a nuisance to the people of other countries, that it
became incumbent on the United States to consider whe-
ther they should not take some public measure to obtain
a repeal of those, and show their sense of their injustice.
What had been the policy of Hon. Gentlemen on the
other side with respect to other countries in which sla-
very existed with many aggravations ? What had been
their favourite policy with respect to Turkey, but to
preserve the integrity of the Turkish empire, on which
was supposed to depend the balance of power ? We
knew that slavery existed in Turkey, under ciroum-
stances of greater aggravation than in the West Indies.
We had become more familiar with, during our recent in-
tercourse with that country, yet we had made no stipu-
lations for preventing the slave-trade, and not an argu-
ment had been advanced on the other side on this
ground against our policy.—(Hear, hear.) And so it
was with the East Indies. The present resolution
had been seconded by an East Indian Director,
yet the organ of the Company, at the present
time, was filled with details of East India
slavery—(Hear, hear)—which was winked at, or openly
countenanced by, the Company's servants. What then
were the people of England to think if they were not to
be allowed to consume a necessary article of life, because
they were not to be allowed to consume slave produce ?
What were they to think of it when the present motion
was supported by those who were recently indemnified
for the sacrifice of their property in slaves , when
it was supported by those who were actually owners of
slaves, and sharers in the profit arising from their labour.
Why in the world was the British House of Commons
to stop an intercourse with other countries on such
grounds as those which were put forward ? Would it
not be seen that such a proposition could only have
originated in party views.—(Hear, hear.) He had been
told of some great experiment being made, and that they
ought not to disturb it, for that the interests of humanity I
was involved in its success. This was a great mistake,
So far as he understood the experiment, it was whether
a portion of the African race was capable of being free,
and whether they had any taste for the arts of civilised
life. The experiment was made, and it was shown all
the statements to the contrary were fallacious, made for
the purpose of keeping fellow-creatures in bondage.
The experiment was mae at once in Antigua, one year
before the emancipation of the slaves ; and this circum-
stance constituted the difference between one island and
another. In Antigua the population found it easier to
obtain work, and were willing to work for wages ; and
and they would find this to be the case wherever the
quantity of labour rather exceeded the supply than the
demand. When we emancipated the slaves, we never
undertook to guarantee the planter against all the con-
tingencies that might arise from the difficulties of ob-
taining labour.: The difference between the
islands did not arise from the emancipation of
the slaves, but from the difference in the fertility
of soil and other circumstances.—(Hear, hear.) There
was another topic in the proposition of the Noble Lord
(Sandon) which he could not sit down without referring
to, namely, that this was not only a question of slavery
but also a question of the adequate supply of sugar.
The Noble Lord implied by his resolution, that if the
supply of sugar was not adequate, we might then allow
slave produce to come in, and the Noble Lord thereby
implied that the present supply was adequate, that is,
that this necessary article of consumption was cheap
enough. That was quite sufficient to raise the question
Of what was the condition of the people of this country.
He thought the Noble Lord must have overlooked, or
must be totally ignorant of what was the state of the
country where he considered that any article of neces-
sary consumption was cheap enough.—(Hear, hear.)
He (Mr. Villiers) believed that there never was a period
in the history of this country in which the
I people were worse off than at present, and had been for
the last two years. He had with him abundant details
of the greatest physical sufferings that were now being
endured by the poor of the country. The Hon. Member
for Finsbury had supplied the House with details of this
kind, and he (Mr. Villiers) should occupy the House to
had
time been
ofthe end of the week were he to read to them those with
which l
much supplied.
PlhiedHouHsee with wouldthose
os
ed not, e however,tdetails, b
ut
occupy
he could nut help adverting to eth sufferings in some of
the districts with which he was acquainted. He was in-
formed by a communication dated the 10th of May
instant, that at Preston the number of
was 1,220 ; that the increase of the n
punier eempty houses
vvho:receive out-door relief from the
parish t
oof paupers
37 to 1840, was 83 per cent., and from 1837 18471
per cent., being an increase of 40 per cent
while
1827
e the
in-door relief was continued in the usual" w
During this time large subscriptions had been
proportion.
During
and
1,320 women received various articles of bedding It
was the opinion of some who were connected with this
charity, that 2,000 families, consisting of 10,000 indi-
viduals, had not a single blanket to cover them. The
Chaplain of the House of Correction stated that crime
had increased 30 per cent., while it was impossible to
say how many were subsisting by beggary. The wages
on some of the trades were decreased 10 per cent. with-
in the last three months, and 25 per cent, since 1832.
Many of the trades kept up their wages by unions and
combinations, but this class were tramping about the
country. At Bolton it, was stated that the mills, among
which were those of the Hon. Member for that place,
and employing no less than 14,000 persons, were worked
but for a very short time ; that at Blackburn there were
four mills that were not working; and that a fire-proof
mill with its machinery, which a short time ago cost
509 000/ had been recently sold for 15,0001. It was stated
_ _
also, that at Little Bolton 300 houses were visited, con-
taining 500 beds; and that in 'one of these houses they
found twenty-three persons without a bed; eight,
who slept in one bed
• , forty-two who slept in
seven beds ; seventy-eight who slept in six beds ; 185
who slept in five beds ; 432 who slept in four beds ; and
582 who slept in three beds ; that there was 1,025 per-
sons whose average income was below ls. 6d. per week ;
359 whose average income was below 2s. a week ; and
165 whose average income was below . ls 6d. per week.
The Hon. Member also read statements from Oldham,
Nottingham Leicester, and other places, of the emistence
of similar distress at those places, one of which stated
that a cow having died and been buried, the owner a
day and a half afterwards was besought by a number of
Women to allow them to have the carcass for their
families ; and that upon his yielding to their importunity,
they disinterred the carcass, and deviled it among them,

and afterwards declared that it was the only meat they
had tasted for many years. The Hon. Gentleman then
read an extract, the report of Mr. Hickson a Govern-
ment Commissioner, as to the state of the poor
in Ireland, in which the Commissioner said that
he had heard the question asked among them,
which was the most contrary to the will of
God, to extinguish the life of their children,
before they had arrived at the knowledge of good and
evil, or to give a nominal consent to their existence, and
to see that for them the earth had not brought forth its
increase. He (Mr. Villiers) wished to inquire, when
we were boasting of the value of our possessions, of
what value were they to theie unfortunate people ?
(Hear, hear.) We called upon them for taxes for the
protection of our possessions in the East and West
Indies ; but he wished to know of what advantage were
they to a people who were starving ? Of what advantage
were they to the poor, when if it was proposed to ex-
tend to them some of the comforts they produced, they
were told that they could not enjoy them because it was
essential to protect and maintain monopolies ?—(Hear.)
In contrasting the condition of the slaves with those
who suffered so much, he would refer the House to the
works of a writer who possessed great experience of the
state of the working classes, and whose writings con-
tained much truth, most powerfully stated—he meant
Cobbett, who said, " Poverty, after all, is the great
badge of slavery ; weary bones and rags are the true
marks of real slavery. What is the object of Govern-
ment but to cause men to live happily, which cannot be
without a sufficiency of food and raiment ? There
can be no morality, no virtue, no sincerity,
among
.people who are continually pining for want,
and it is cruel in an extreme degree to punish them for
crimes that are not theirs, but are brought about by their
all-controlling necessities." It might be said that these
were the opinions of a democrat, and that they were not
worthy of attention, but he should read the opinion of a
high Tory, Mr. Southey—(Cheers)—who said that we
had arrived at a state in which the inequality of con-
ditions was intolerable, and that, if a remedy were not
applied, a war between the poor and the rich was in-
evitable.—(Cheers.) What an increase of misery had
taken place since Mr. Southey wrote this !—(Cheers.)
He (Mr. Villiers) had made no exaggerated statement of
the condition of the people. He should be happy to hear
it proved they were not so miserable=(Hear! hear)—
that it was not owing to the state of trade that they were
so, and that the state of trade was not owing to the re-
strictions on our commerce. As he stated last year,
the manufacturers asserted that all the misery was owing
to their not being allowed to exchange their produce with
other countries—that their warehouses were bursting
with food sent from America and other countries, and
that they were ready to take that corn for goods already
sent to America and those other countries.--(Cheers.)
They said that if they were allowed to do this they were
ready to execute further orders for the same kind of food.
—(Cheers.) He hoped they were going to a division.—
(Cheers.) He hoped to a dissolution.—(Great cheering
from both sides.) He hoped the names of the majority
would appear to-morrow.—(Renewed cheering.) He did
not say that he wished Hon. Gentlemen opposite to be
marked, but he wished that the people at large should
have an opportunity of seeing what were the constituen-
cies those Gentlemen represented.—(Loud cheers.)
The people complained that they now represented
sinister and sectional interests. On the contrary
it was insisted that the people were virtually
represented, and that they had influence over
the electors, who were only their .trustees.—(Hear, hear.)
He said, then, if ever there was an occasion when the
people ought to judge of the conduct of existing consti-
tuencies, this was the occasion.—(Hear, hear.) Nobody
was less desirous than he of disturbing the Con-
stitution of this country, but those who had the,
elective franchise should see that justice was done to all
classes alike.J-&;-(Cheers.) -And it was coming to this;
that if the House .did not do justice to the people, the
people would do justice to themselves.—(Much cheering
from both sides of the House.) The-question befcfre the
House had been treated as if it were whether one I set of
men should ;take, office :instead of another ; but nbthing
had been said from the other side as to the good which
they would do for the people.---(Cheers and laughter.)
The present Ministers proposed those excellent
measures ; and, before he consented to give his
vote for another set of men, he must at least
have some intimation that they meant to do some-
thing better. In the course of the debate he had heard
nothing of the kind from gentlemen opposite.—(Cheers,
and laughter.) He had heard one say that no distress
existed—(Hear, hear)—another that those measures
would increase it, and another that it would be best
cured by leaving it to itself.—(Cheers.) It struck him
that there were now three parties in the State—one of
which thought that no justice should be done to the
people—(Cheers)—another which admitted that justice
was not done to them, but that it ought to be done, and
that it could be done under the present Constitution.—
(Cheers.) The third party consisted of those who were
hourly increasing in numbers and strength, and who
thought that justice was not done and would not be done
without a change in the Constitution.—(Hear, hear,
and cheers.) The Noble Lord the Secretary for the
Colonies belonged to the second class, and said
, that although justice was not done to the people it ought
to be done, and it could be done with the present Con-
stitution—the Noble Lord had undertaken to attempt it.
—(Great cheering.) He had undertaken the lead—
(Cheers)—and in that he had chosen the post which was
best fitted to his name and his position—(Cheers)—and
he (Mr. Villiers) saw every reason to expect success
under his lead.—(Cheers and laughter.) The people
would be most unwise to repudiate the leadership which
the Noble Lord undertook.—(Laughter, and cries of
" Oh, oh," from the Tory benches.) He hoped the
Noble Lord would not be deterred by the taunts which
had been thrown upon him.--(Cheers,.and cries of " Oh,
oh.") He hoped the Noble Lord would not_be daunted
by the threats that his measure would set one class
against another—(Hear)--for it was the nature of those
laws to set one class against another. The question was
the same in 1640 —when it was claimed by the
King to tax the people for his own benefit—as it was
now, in 1841, when the aristocracy claim to tax the
people for their benefit.—(Cheers, and counter cheers.)
He hoped the middle classes in the approaching contest
—(Cheers)—would not show themselves degenerate sons
of those men who had sown the seeds of liberty in this
country, and had disseminated them over another hemis-
phere--(Cheers)--and he hoped that the poorer classes
would not show themselves indifferent to those great rights
of theirs which were involved in this question. The
Hon. Gentleman sat down amidst much cheering.
Sir EDWARD KNATCHBULL would not be sorry
that the debate should continue for seven nights upon so
important a question—that it should be understood in
all its bearings, but for the injury which had been done
to the most important interests of the country by the
suspense in which they had been kept.—(Loud cheers
from the Tories.) The Ministers were to blame far not
having used their influence in preventing the time of the
House from being so much occupied.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
With respect to the calculations of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer as to the produce of the sugar duties, he had
no doubt they would be realised, if the quantity of sugar
from the colonies alone would yield the anticipated re-
venue. But the effect of the measure would be to en-
courage in foreign countries the horrid and inhuman
practice of slavery, which at so much expense we had
suppressed in our own possessions.—(Hear, hear.)
But, even if the measure were in itself advisable, it ap-
peared to him to have been brought forward at a most
improper moment. Indeed, he could only look upon it
as a party expedient, tending needlessly to agitate the
country ; for Ministers could not hope to carry out their
policy. On the timber question the feeling of the people
of Canada was opposed to them, and the people of that
country could not be denied their just claims upon that
subject. With respect to the Corn-laws, he begged
leave to say, that the duty ought naturally to vary with
the price of corn in any sound system of protective
policy ; and that was the opinion of Mr. Canning. What
did the Hon. Member for Marylebone (Sir B. Hall) say
last night ? He said that he supported the Ministerial
measure, becouse it would lead, in his opinion; to a total
abolition of all protecting duties. That was the motive
which actuated many of the Ministerial supporters. The
Hon. Member for Wolverhampton (Mr. Villiers), who
was not then present, had made some severe comments
on the landed interests in regard to that subject, arid he
(Sir E. Knatchbull) thought it was unfair 'of the Hon.
Member, after the course he had taken in his speech, to
retire from the House before an answer could be given to
it. That Hon. Member had entered into details showing
the sufferings of a large portion of the labouring classes ;
but Hon. Gentlemen on that (the Opposition) side of the
House were not less anxious to alleviate those suffer-
inga than the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton or
any of his party. A repeal of the Corn-laws could not
materially benefit the labouring classes, for if it
diminished the price of corn it would equally
diminish the rate of wages, and would place
the labourer in no better condition than at present.
The army, the navy, and all the public establish-
ments would certainly reduce their expenses in propor-
tion as the price of corn might fall ; and he had no
doubt but private individuals would imitate the ex-
ample. He was sure that if those laws were repealed
this country would one day have reason to regret a
course of proceeding which left her at the mercy of
fo.
oCdhanlctelhleardebfetehnecEorn
plained x--
foreign nofathwyntshfeorßliigerhtsuHpephly.
tohfe
chequer that the Hon. Gentlemen on the Opposition
Benches had not explained the course which they would
recommend under the present circumstances of the
country ' • but he had never heard that a Ministry should
look for advice to those from whom they habitually dif-
fered. It was the business of a Ministry alone to advise the
Crown, and Parliament as to the policy which it would be
wise to adopt, and to propound the measures which it
felt to be expedient.—(Hear, from the Ministerial benches.)
He did not, however, despair of the fortunes of his country.
He placed the most implicit reliance on the spirit, the
Judgment, and the patriotism of the people of England.—
(Cheers on both sides of the House.) Ire knew that
there were in this country men of sound sense ; and he
would repeat that he did therefore confidently hope in
the maintenance of our prosperity. He believed that
with a strong and efficient Government they would be
enabled to uphold the dignity, promote the welfare, and
secure the happiness of all classes of her Majesty's srib-
jects.--(Cheers.)
Mr. CHARLES BULLER had never in the course
of his life felt so keen a disappointment in listening to
any speech in that House as he had in listening to
the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet, in which, at the
closeth ionffehr ath of
ydedalrwe sas,
which,s heli s
tlistening
h
niifirmlyn g
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coursecruelly
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e h
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given them some hope.—(Hear, hear and cheers.) He
inst t
confess,
with the greatest de-
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Br tnnummu
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should,i
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sidegentlemen
melwaive
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to the speeches of the Right Hon. Baronet, he
was astonished when, yesterday, having- moved the
eellautmdh:
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House;
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House
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„o,ei
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it.--(Cheers and laughter.) He supposed the