The Sun.
London, England, 1847-04-17 00:00:00

in the Poor Relief B 11 for Ireland refusing relief to the
holders of small quantities of land.
GOVERNMENT SCHEME OF EDUCATION.
Mr. SPOONER presented sneral petitions from
Birmingham against the Government scheme of edu-
cation. Also one from the ministers and churchweerdees
of Christchurch, Birmingham, in favour of it.
Mr. PARKER presented a petition in favour of the
Government system of education, and six against it.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.
On the motion of Mr. PARKER, it was agreed that
the House at its rising should adjourn till Monday next.
POCKLINGTON, YORKSHIRE.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE moved " rhat the petition of
the inhabitants of Pocklington, Yorkshire, be printed
with the votes."—Agreed to.
lIOLYHEAD HARBOUR.
Mr. BANKES moved that the petition of the nobility,
gentry, and clergy, of the county of Carnarvon, respect-
ing the Holyhead Harbour, be printed with the votes.
Agreed to.
SEVENTY-TWO GUN SHIPS.
Sir C. NAPIER wished to ask the Secretary of the
Admiralty whether he had any objetion to lay before
the House the date of the order sent down from the Ad-
miralty to the different ports to suspend the construc-
tion of the 72 gun ships? and also whether any order
had been subsequently sent down to go on with them?
Mr. WARD said, in reply to the Gallant Admiral,
he had to state that an order had been sent down to
suspend the works in the 72-gun ships, and accordingly
the Aboukir, the Exmouth, and Princess Royal were
suspended on the 9th of December, 1844; the works re-
mainedantod
rleBs4osm,
ebut
operations,sinc e tha that
and
beenorderhasduspen
d e d
sent
these vessels were now in process of being completed
dlBo4w4n
Sir C. NAPIER inquired whether the second order
was given by the Admiralty or not?
Mr. WARD said he had already stated the course
which had been pursued, and he would find the matter
more fully referred to in the programme.
COMMITTEE OF CONSTRUCTION (NAVY).
Mr. HUME inquired whether the Hon. Gentleman
would have any objection to produce the appointment
and proceedings of the Committee appointed to investi-
gate the subject of naval architecture?
Mr. WARD said he would reply to the question on
Monday.
GOVERNMENT SCHEME OF EDUCATION.
Mr. HINDLEY wished to ask the Noble Lord at the
head of the Government—first, when the reports of the
school inspectors would be laid on the table, whether it
was desirable, in his opinien, that they should be in pos-
session of the reports before coming to a decision on the
plan of education proposed by the Government;
secondly, whether an exact estimate of the expense
could be furnished, and showing whether the
statement which had appealed in some of the
newspapers was correct, that the Noble Lord
had stated to some persons who had waited upon
him that the grant of this year would be applied in strict
c'..niformity with the former grants, and not laid out
according to the minutes of the Privy Council ?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, in reply to the first
question, the reports of the inspectors were not quite
ready, but as soon as they were they would be
laid on the table in the usual course; In re-
ply to the second, he had to state that he did not
think it necessary that the House should defer its deci-
sion until they were in possession of the report.
—(Hear, hear.) And, in reply to the third,
that the grant, if acceded to by the House, would
be laid out according to the former rules, and according
to the plan laid down in the minutes of December, 1846,
be had never made the statement to which the Hon.
Gentleman had referred. He had taken care to have
given wits the estimates of this year a detailed
statement of the probable expense of the plan
proposed by the Privy Council. The grant (so we un-
derstood) this year would be the same us last.
THE TIVLED.
Mr. MUNTZ inquired whether it was the intention of
the Government to mark its sense of the gallant conduct
of the Spanish commander of the ship which went to the
rescue of the unfortunate passeng,ra of the Tweed?
Lord J. RUSSELL said the Government had re-
ceived intelligence of the gallant conduct of the
Spanish captain with great satisfaction, end Lord
Auckland had been directed by her Majesty to in-
form him of the great satisfaction with which her Ma-
jesty had heard of his conduct ; and to propose to
him the acceptance of a medal, upon which would
be recorded the history of the shipwreck
of the Tweed, and the services which he
rendered to the survivors of that unfortunate ship, and
at the same time offering him the sum of 5001., to show
the deep sense which her Majesty and the Government
entertained of the conduct of the Gallant Officer.
CUSTOMS DUTIES.
Dr. BOWRING wished to know when the House
would go into Committee on the Customs Duties Bill,
which he saw upon the orders for that day.
Sir G. GREY said that it was the intention of the
Government to proceed with it that day week:
RETURNS.
On the motion that the order of the day for the third
reading of the Poor Relief (Ireland) Bill be read,
Mr. NEWDEGATE said, that after the uniform
neglect which he had experienced at the hands of her
Majesty's Government, with reference to the returns
which he had moved for now almost three months since,
he was serry to intrude the subject upon the attention
of the House, but really the period which had elapsed
was so long. and the returns for which he moved for so
important, that he must state to the House the cir-
cumstances under which he had moved for them,
and the return itself. He had moved for a return
of what alterations had taken place in the tariff of
foreign countries since 1844 ; what alteration had been
made in the Customs duties of the British possessions
in the colonies ; what exports of the principal articles
of manufacture had taken place during the three last
years, ending 1846 ; also what quantity of provisions had
been introduced, and what foreign countries had im-
posed prohibitory or export duties upon articles im-
ported to this country. He thought that the House
would see, that considering the great experiment into
which this country had been launched last year, the
information which he sought was a matter of public
anxiety. He would not press the returns then were it
not that only one class of them related to the present
year ; and considering that all the others related to the
year ending 1846, he could not but believe that her
Majesty's Government were not in possession of the in-
formation, and he was ready to infer that it was through
some negligence that they were withheld.
Mr. M. GIBSON said that the Ilon. Gentleman was
quite mistaken if lie considered that the Government
were unwilling to furnish these returns. They were to
be collected by the Customs, who stated that
they were so voluminous that they would require
a vast amount of time to complete them. As to the
remaining part of these returns, it was necessary to
communicate with Foreign Ministers and Consuls,
which would also take some time. He hoped
that the Honourable Gentleman would be satis-
fied with this explanation. The Government
would use due diligence, and as soon as they were com-
pleted they should be laid upon the table of the House.
Mr. BANKES said that the explanation given fully '
acquitted the Hon. Gentleman himself, but he (Mr.
Bankes) was nut satisfied that a definite time was not
stated for the completion of these returns. Even if
they were not given down to a late period, he had no
doubt but that they would prove valuable.
REMISSION OF DUTIES ON BUTTER AND
CHEESE.
Mr. LEFROY wished to know from the Hon.
Gentleman the Member for Winchester what were his
intentions with respect to his Bill for the remission of
duties upon butter and cheese.
Mr. B. ESCOTT said that he had, no doubt, given
notice of his intention to proceed with that Bill, but be
had found innecessary 'to calculate on what chances he
had of success, and what were the sinews of war.
He was sorry to say that at present ho saw
very little chance of carrying the House with him.
In the present state of the House, he hardly knew what
side of the House he must look to for support, and
therefore he would abandon it for the present. He would
leave it in the hands of any other Hon. Member who
might have more courage and hope of success than he
had, if they should think fit to bring it forward.
ENCUMBERED ESTATES IN SCOTLAND.
Lord DUNCAN wished to ask the Lord-Advocate a
question. He bed been led to understand that a mea-
sure was under the consideration of Government to
facilitate the sale of encumbered estates in Scotland.
What he wished to know was, whether such a Bill was
under the consideration of the Government, and when it
would be introduced ?
The LORD ADVOCATE stated, in reply, that the
question was under the consideration of the Government,
with the view of framing a measure to meet the circum-
stances referred to. He begged also to state that it
would be introduced on an early day.
POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL.
The order of the day for the third reading of this Bill
was then read.
Mr. CORRY said he rose with great reluctance
to occupy the House for a short time, to give
he opposed that portion of the
scheme w
the reasonsich whiled'
relation to out-door relief. In
former times, when the condition of the poor was alone
considered an Irish question, every one of the least
authority was Apposed to the introduction of the
Irelandqs
auye s,tti
hornowuegverheaosautttaaaelitekl
etrdheedb,:iiesacauunssde.
principle of out-door relief, but now, because it
theyathff eecltaoenpadp,o.dsEepdnrgoilt.parniideiormtshuoe
must
sions which had taken place on this measure, he had not
heard a single argumentto alter the opinion which all per-
sons of authority on the subject bad formerly maintained.
He admitted the obligation of the land to provide for the
poor, but he knew not how, when this temporary relief
expired, the people could be saved from starving. Why,
the whole of the property in Ireland, distributed among
the people in cut-door relief, would not suffice to support
them. He was certain that accommodation enough
could be found for the disabled and destitute poor, that*
was, if out-door relief were not resorted to. If, how-
ever, relief should be given in that country Without'
the workhouse test, a dependence upon charitable
resources would be encouraged to that extent that
it would certainly go far towards confiscating.
the property in the country. He admitted the duty of
the land to provide for the disabled destitute, and h 4
would concede even the confiscation of the land, it
Gentlemen on the other side could show him that iF
was necessary ; but the veriest tyro in politics,
economy knew well that property was mem,
sary to the well-being of the poor themielvefs
The result of the Bill would be, that ins of out-doer
relief proving, as the Noble Lord had , the excep.
Lion, it would prove the general rule, one! ,seefsei *leer?:
could not fail to be entailed upon thbit iV removeg
from the lower classes in conaequ.teeene
The Noble,
Lord asked the deputation who 1..-4111? bins
on the subject what better peee they
'
Tctr
that question he would reply, let air inbasure
be tried temporarily, but do .not make it a permanenk
mem and, ill tim
measure. Try it as a temporary m