The Sun.
London, England, 1847-06-18 00:00:00

T. 8.1 SUN,

that there had been a juggle, a device, a stratagem, which
had operated to the frustration of the deAared intention
of the Legislature. Votes were purchased up at any
price prior to that meeting, which was necessary, under
Lord Wharncliffe's standing order ; and the object,
without doubt, was to frustrate the intention of the
Legislature. But if he was wrong in the fact, the re-
port
of the Committee, when brought up, would set
him right. That was the object and the end of a Com-
mittee. A Committee were the very eyes, the organs
by which their Lordships saw. They were instructed to
inquire ; inquire they did, and submitted all the facts to
the House. Complaints had been mode about critnina-
don and recrimination taking place. That was the very
point upon which they ought not to complain, for there
was crimination in that which they had directed their
Committee to inquire into, and they could not expect
that some reply would be wanting to the allegations
which were made against parties, whose interests were
concerned in the transaction. He felt it necessary to
apologise to their Lordships for again entering into the
subject. He had confined himself as much as possible
to the new features which the case had presented ; and,
in conclusion, he should express a hope that a strict
investigation, if honestly gone into, would operate as
an example, and tend to hinder the offence from being
repeated.
Lord STANLEY said that the question was, whether
this was a transaction carried an by one great company,
or was it not? Was it a bona fide purchase, or was it
not? The Committee agreed to investigate the case ;
and the Counsel, in his opening speech, said, that he
wc.ild not attempt to prove that this was not a bona fide
transaction, and then the Committee and House were
entertained by a mere assertion of some guarantee hav-
ing been given by the Great Northern Company, and
that they had gained an unfair advantage by a strata
gem. How did the case stand—the shareholders in the
Company had sold their interest in the Company—
no formal transfer had taken place, and the shareholders
took advantage of their nominal position as shareholders
and repudiated that which they had performed, really
and in fact, because of a technical objection. He was
surprised to hear his Noble Friend take the part of those
who had acted in such a manner, and to complain that
the Committee would not hear those whose case had, in
the very outset, been admitted to be no case at all.
He thought that, in such a case, their Lordships would
be wrong if they attempted to depart from the ordinary
rules permitted in these cases.—(Hear, hear.)
Earl FITZWILLIAM stated, that he entirely con-
curred in the view which had been taken of the case,
when Noble Lords stated that there had been a strata-
gem practised. The only question was, whether the
stratagems on one side, or both sides, were calculated to
injure and damnify the public. That was a matter which
ought to be inquired into.
The House then divided, when the numbers were—
For the motion
For the amendment 22
Majority — 6
Lord REDDESDALE then gave nitice that be
should trove a is solution, that the Cominissioners of
Halways do inquire into the comparative merits, and the
means of public accommodation afforded by all the rail-
ways between London and Birmingham.
SOAP ALLOWANCES BILL.
This Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to
be committed.
Several Bills were forwarded a stage, and their Lord-
ships then adjourned.

Lord GEORGE BENTINCK rose to call the atten-
tion of the House to the infraction of the Ist, 15th, 17th,
and 18th Arteles of the Treaty of Lisbon, of July, 1842,
and to ask her Majesty's Ministers w hether any and what
steps have been taken to obtain from the Government of
the Queen of Portugal, redress for the past, and security
against future injuries of a like kind done to British in-
terests. He said that this was a question in which the
British merchants, resident in Portugal and in this
country were deeply interested.—(Hear.) It would
be within the recollection of all those who had
read the papers which had been presented to the
House, with respect to the affairs of Portugal,
that Mr. Southeron, on the 16th of November last, ad-
dressed a letter to Viscount Palmerston, informing him
that a decree had been proclaimed by the Queen of Por-
tugal, which compromised the interests of British mer-
chants resident in that country.—(Cries of " Hear,
hear.") The Noble Lord then read a long
statement made by Mr. Southern, pointing out
the disadvantages under which they were labouring by
the compulsory use of the bank notes of Portugal, which,
as they were of much less value than the sums for which
they were issued, materially interfered with their opera-
tions, because it compelled them to take paper which
would shortly be valueless ; and the consequence would
be that they would be compelled to suspend their opera-
tions. Now, the first article of that decree runs in
these words—" Any person who from any motive
should reject the notes of the Lisbon bank, will
be liable to transportation, and subjected to a
fine of from 50,000 grains to 500 grains of gold,
to be placed to the public account. The fine in every
case to be regulated by the judge, according to the amount
of the trar.eaction and the sentence of the transgressor."
The 15th article provided, that under the engagement
of the Queen of Portugal the commerce of British sub-
jects in the Portuguese dominions should not be re-
strained or interrupted by any monopoly of the Lisbon
notes; that they should have unrestrained permission to
buy from and sell to whomsoever they pleased, and in
whatever form or manner was agreed upon by the pur-
chaser. An article of the 17th of December had abro-
gated that to a great extent, and at nresent the British•
subjects in Portugal were compelled to take payment
in notes of Lisbon, which were depreciated in
value to the enormous amount of fifty-four per
cent. This was fully stated in a dispatch of
Sir George H. Se) mour, dated April the 9th,
although by the articles of this commercial treaty, con-
eluded by Lord Waldegrave, they were entitled to buy
and sell, and to receive in exchange, any payment
which might be agreed upon between the purchaser and
the seller. He should have occasion afterwards to
refer, as regards the seventeenth and eighteenth
articles of the treaty to trial by jury. By those articles,
as Honourable Members would know, all British
subjects were entitled to trial by jury, but of that they
were deprived. So, then, all British merchants or ma-
nufacturers would have suffered a depreciation at the
present time, on the whole amount of 54 per cent.,
if they had contracted any bargains with Lisbon
houses since November last. Tuts state of mat-
ters continued to exist, and to be tolerated,
notwithstanding the frequent protests of Mr. Southeron,
addressed to the Queen and her Ministers. He could
net avoid drawing a contrast between the conduct of
British Ministers in regard to the Court of Portikal,
and their energy, when the Junta appeared to them to be
guilty of any infraction of the rights of the British sub-
jects, or of the law of notions. On the 4th of March,
Colonel Johnson wrote to Mr. Southeron, stating that
the Junta had seized stores in the town, part of which
belonged to a Mr. Russell. This was instantly com-
municated to her Majesty's Ministers, and Lord
Palmerston, on the 26th of March, had sent off dis-
patches to Mr. Southeron relative to his communications.
Now, he wished to ask Hon. Members would this stipu-
lation in the treaty, signed by the Queen in 1842, be
permitted to be violated without any explana-
tion being demanded by her Majesty's Govern•
merit ? So much for the infraction of the
treaty as regarded the rights of British mer-
chants to deal in any way they pleased with the
Portuguese merchants. He would now proceed to deal
with other infractions of the treaty. On the 30th of
December Mr. Southeron wrote from Lisbon that a
violation of trial by jury had taken place in Portugal,
and the.- British subjects were placed in a different posi-
tion to that intended by the 17th and 18th articles of the
treaty of 1842. It might not be known to many
Honourable M. tubers of that House that in 1842 there
existed a court of justice in Portugal for the
trial of British subjects; but by that treaty pri-
vileges were granted to British subjects by the
institution of Conservatorial Courts. As far as
he had been able to gather from these papers,
no remonstrance had ever been entered into upon the
subject. He wished to know whether any steps, and if
any, when and what steps had been taken to redress
these wrongs of British subjects in Portugal ?
Lord PALMERSTON said that he understood the
Noble Lord to ask him a question relating to the decree
which had been passed, giving force to the paper cur-
rency of the Bank of Portugal at a forced or a
nominal value, and, secondly, with regard
to certain suspended guarantees with regard
to the British subjects in Portugal. Now with regard
to the first point, without pretending, as he had at first
thought of doing, to justify the Portuguese Govern-
ment for the financial measures which it had resorted
to in its pecuniary embarrassments, he would call
the attention of the Noble Lord to other facts.
The Noble Lord would admit that this was not
the first instance in the history of nations of Govern-
ments being obliged to give by law a forced value to a
paper currency which was suffering from considerable
depreciation, and that paper hdd been received at a value
somewhat different to that which, according to the free-
trade notions of the Noble Lord it would fetch in the
market.
Lord GEORGE BENTINCK said, British merchants
were prevented from making any private contract; they
were forbidden by this decree to contract even by the
medium of bars of silver, under a penalty varying from
50,000 to 500,000 reals—notwithstanding any contract
to that effect, they were forbidden from receiving pay-
ment in any other mode except in the Bank of Lisbon
notes. Now, he apprehended that the Noble Lord could
not instance any precedent for such a course.
Lord PALMERSTON resumed. He admitted that
it was a very stringent rule; but he wished to remind
the Noble Lord that the notes were receivable by the
Government at the same rates at which they were com-
pelled to be received by private individuals. The course
adopted with respect to this by her Majesty's Govern-
ment was, he considered, the usual course. They did
not anticipate complaints of hardships from foreign
countries ; but whenever any complaint was made
founded upon the construction of treaties whose pro-
visions had been invalidated, it was referred to the
proper law officers of the Crown, and according to the
advice given by those'officers her Majesty's Government
aced. He was not aware that any specific complaints
had been made by British merchants in the conversations
of Mr. Southeron; but if any complaints were made, the
course which the Government would pursue would be
this—to refer that complaint to the Queen's Advocate,
and if he were to state that a violation of the treaty
had taken place, the Government would seek for
redress. With respect to the second question, it was
perfectly true, as his Noble Friend had stated, that the
17th and 18th articles of that treaty of 1842, concerning
the e,tablishment of the conservatorial court had been
(as we understood) violated. A British subject had
suffered great injustice from the suspension of these
articles ; and an application was made to the Govern-
ment of Portugal to re-establish the conservational
court, and it was established accordingly, and was now
In existence. He did not think it fitting or expedient,
to trouble the House with all the correspondence which
had taken place between this Government and the Go-
vernment of Portugal, appertaining to their commercial
1 relations. lie had carefully expunged everything from
the communications which took place from October up
to the present time, with respect to those relations which
had a bearing upon the political question which the
House would, at a future time, take into consideration.
A vast deal of correspondence with respect to blockades,
and other matters, would be found in the blue books.
Founded on the articles of this treaty that court exists,
and will still continue to exist, until the legal constitution
guaranteed will be established.—(Hear.)
HEALTH OF TOWNS BILL.
Lord LINCOLN wished to know whether it was the
intention of the Noble Lord to bring on the Health of
Towns Bill to morrow ?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL--My impression is that the
discussion on the Poor-law Administration Bill will be
concluded to-night, and I therefore hope to bring on the
Health of Towns Bill to-morrow.
DECORATIONS FO
PR
RTTUGHE BRITISH OFFICERS—
Mr. EW ART desired to ask the Government whether
it was the intention, as it was reported to be, of the Por-
tuguese Government to confer a decoration on the officers
of the British navy who were concerned in the late affair
in Portugal ? He did not consider such was deserved,
as they were employed not as partisans, but as arbi-
trators.
is La
ruleord in forcePALME which
PALMERSTON—It is
prevented well
any British tknowish subjectnthatthere
from accepting or wearing any foreign order, unless the
person has been actually in the service of a foreign sove-
reign, or performed particularly eminent services ; and I
feel no difficulty in saying, none of the duties which have
been performed by the British officers concerned in the
late transactions in Portugal brings them within the scope
of this rule.
POOR-LAW ADMINISTRATION BILL.
On the order of the day that the House should go
into Committee on this Bill,
Mr. BANKES said that he should oppose the motion.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—Do you take the opposi-
tion now ? It is open to you at a future stage.
Mr. BANKES considered it best to take the discus-
sion now, because he did not find any one clause in the
Bill of which he could approve, and perhaps it was then
the best course to shorten the discussion. The Noble
Lord had admitted that he thought these persons not
competent or qualified to fill these offices, and yet up to
the present time this subject had not been brought for-
ward. It was now brought under the notice ,of the
itouse at a most inconvenient period of the session.
He thought that the delay which had taken place
was most unwarrantable. An important enquiry
had taken place into the conduct of these officers
and yet, although a very strong report had been made to
the House, no Member of the Committee had ever yet
come forward to state his opinion distinctly as to what
had taken place, or to bring it under the notice of the
House. Ho found no improvement in the Bill. Think-
ing that a much better mode of carrying the end into
effect could be devised at much less expense to the
country, therefore he objected to the whole Bill.
The Poor-law Commission was first of all created for a
temporary purpose, limited to a period of five years ;
but no one could look at this Bill without seeing that the
e olfithee Bill, besides,
They pro-
present Bill proposed to make that Commission in a diffe-
besides, added very
lraerngtelfyortmo t
hpeerpma
tarnoennatg.
posed to form a board on the principle of the Board of