The Sun.
London, England, 1847-01-15 00:00:00

CONVEYANCE OF TROOPS BY
RAILWAY.

There is some interesting testimony on this subject to
be found in the recently issued (by order of Parliament)
minutes of evidence taken before them. The following
are extracts therefrom. The first witness quoted is W.

Hosking, Esq.:—
Supposing a separate terminus to be made for the
North Kent at Union-street, what effect would that have
upon the thoroughfares ?—Any terminus in that neigh-
bourhood would, of course, have some of the advantages
which I claim for the neighbourhood of the York-road,
but it would want the advantage which seems to me
likely to arise from the railways north and south all
meeting at the same place, and the interchange of pas-
sengers and goods without the necessity of driving them
through London. The streets of London would be re-
lieved, in the way I propose, of a useless traffic, that is,
of the mere through traffic from railway station to rail-
way station. I contemplate also an advantage from
bringing all the railways as far as possible to the same
terminus that an interchange would take place.
You speak of passengers only ?—Passengers mainly.
Would not that apply to one particular class of pas-
sengers, viz., those going by another railway?—Of course;
but it is an incident merely to the general scheme,
though not an unimportant one in a military point of
view, and especially as it regards the transmission of
troops and stores from one part of the country to another,
when it may be necessary that such should pass by or
through London.
Do you contemplate, in connexion with the general
terminus which you propose, that the termini now exist-
ing in the outskirts to the northward and westward, be-
longing to the Great Northern and Western Railways,
should still remain?—That might be left entirely with
the companies. I should urge merely that they ought
not to be allowed to advance further into the town; that
they should not be allowed, indeed, to advance beyond
' their present positions, so as to come within the belt
formed by the Edgware-road, the New-road. and the
, City-road; and that no public advantage would be de-
rived from bringing them forward, for some parts of the
town would suffer more from greater difficulty of access
to the railway than others would benefit from vicinity. I
submit, that the position which I have indicated would be
more accessible than any other from every Bart of the
• town, and more accessible than most other places, taken
as independent termini.
[General Sir James Willoughby Gordon, Bart., G.C.8.,
G.C.11., and Major-General Sir John Fox Burgoyne,
K.C.8., examined.]
To Sir J. W. Gordon—The Commission are very
, Anxious to have your opinion upon the advantages which
might be expected to be derived, military speaking, from
a connexion between the railways on the north bank of
the Thames and the railways on the south bank of the
Thames; and also to have any opinion that you may be
s • prepared to give them as to the best means of connect-
ing those railways for military purposes?—Before I
i7'itnswer the question, let us see whether we understand
the present termini in the same way. The termini of
the railways that I use are these, viz., the Paddington,
the Euston-square, the Shoreditch, and the Blackwell
Railway in Billiter-square; those are all on that bank of
the river. When we come to the other side, there are
the London-bridge stations, the Bricklayers' Arms
station, the New Cross, and the Vauxhall, or nine Elms.
Those are all the termini that I know of. Now, nothing
can be more convenient for my purposes than those ter-
mini. Ido not see any advantage that would arise from
any change in them. I may understand it wrongly, but
if I am to understand that anything like a central ter-
minus is intended, I should say it would be attended
with inconvenience. Your termini now, as I
have described them, are central, in a circle of
somewhat large diameter, but still it is one. If you
make it smaller, so as to bring the thine., as it
were to the nave of a wheel, from which the raddii
diverge like spokes, it for military purposes might be
attended with very serious inconvenience. I need not,
perhaps, tell you that in the assembling of large bodies
of troops with • all their necessary accompaniments,
equipments, and baggage of all kinds, women and
children, it is a difficult matter to put them in regular
motion from any given place at any time ; but when
you bring them from different parts to one central place,
and under different commanding officers, I can conceive
nothing more calculated to create very great confusion.
I did not iutend the question to apply so much to a
central station as to a connexion, (putting stations out
of view fur the moment,) by railway, between the rail-
ways already existing on the north, and the railways
already existing on the south ?-1 du not see any ne-
cessity for it. For example, our troops are moved up
from Hampshire to London, with a view to being sent
to Birmingham; they disembark at Vauxhall, and then
they arc moved to Euston square ; there is nu difficulty
in that movement.
_Except the loss of time ?—As far as regards the
march ; but if I am to understand by a connexion a con-
tinuous connexion, that instead of stopping at Vaux-
hall, they would go on, that would be a different thing.
That is the question, a cunnexiou by railway ?—t.;er-
tainly, that would be a convenience ; they would not
have to stop and be billeted about ; but if they are to
be removed from one railway station to another, then I
-should say it is hardly worth while to do it.
It is specially with a view to a junction by interme-
diate rails ?—lt would be convenient, no doubt, if, in-
stead of being disembarked at Vauxhall, they could go
straight on to Paddington, or straight on to Euston-
square, or any other place to which they might require
to go onwards.
It would be a saving, probably, of three or four hours
between Nine Elms and Euston-square ?—Yes ; in
-sending troops by railway we must oonsider this. When
the Government has particularly desired it for special
public purposes, troops have been conveyed on the same
day from Gosport to Weedon, via London, but that is
not a thing to be practised, for various good reasons.
~If such a connexion as I have described were to be
established, should you consider it a matter of much im-
portance whether the connexion were very direct ; that
is, for instance, whether the connexion between the
South-Eastern Dover Railway and the London and Bir-
thingliam Railway passed through the heart of London,
or should you consider that it would equally answer
Sour purpose if the connexion were circuitous and
effected by a railway making half the circuit of London,
fail perhaps crossing the river as far up as Vauxhall'or
Battersea, and coming round to the London and Bir-
mingham ?—The answer to that question would be
merely a matter of time ; if you went direct it would be
a quarter of an hour ; and if you went in the way you
propose, it would be twenty-five minutes. As to the
exteat of the use to which railways are applied under
ray direction, I would state, that in the course of the
four last years, there have been moved by railways
250,000 people, of which about 12,000 have been wo-
men, and some 14,000 children ; and the extraordinary
part of it is, that they have been moved without an
accident of any kind. I know no other conveyance
which would show this ; so that it is not only rapidity,
but security.
--Do you think, for the defence of the country, in the
event of an invasion sr threatened invasion, it would not
be very desirable to form a communication between the
nor ern and southern lines of railway ?—No doubt it
would be.
Would not an unbroken connexion between the
northern and southern railways ho particularly desirable
for the purpose of moving cavalry and artillery ?—Yes;
in roving troops generally the more continuous the bet-
ter'; 'Cavalry and artillery are seldom moved without
greett,expense attending it, and very imperative necessity
for.icioing so ; but move what you will, in a military
senscsaby railroad, a continuous lino is better than a
broken one. I take that as a general view of it. Any-
thing that requires to be taken from a railway at ono
point, and moved to another, is very inconvenient ; and
the more you can avoid it the better fur the public
service.
One.finds, in private life, that the inconvenience and
this :Fisk of transporting horses, is much greater than
they Of transporting human beings ?—Certainly. The
moving of horses by railway becomes expensive iu this
waye not only that the weight is larger, but that you
have nothing to set off against it. A horse marching
costs no more to the public than he does when in the
stable; his toed is the same. You have nothing to set
off against the expense of the railway with a horse, but
with a man you have. The men and the officers cost
the-public more when they are in march than when they
are at 'rest. That cost put against the expense of the
railway makes the expense of the railway for them less.
With respect to stations in the heart of London more
central than they:are at present, I understand you to say
you have a decided objection to it?—l should say they
are not necessary, and they might be very inconvenient.
If you bring groat bodies of people to one centre, there
will be a great confusion in getting them out of one
place and into another, which might be extremely in
convenient, and particularly if there were horse and
artillery, with all those impediments that must attend
the moving of bodies of that description. I should con-
ceive that nothing could be more inconvenient. I con-
sider that the termini now, as I have described them,
viz., at Paddington, Euston-square, Shureditch, Billiter-
square, London-bridge, and Vauxhall, are quite central
enough. If you reduce it to the nave of a wheel and
make all the spokes branching out from it, it will be
attended, I think, with great embarrassment, but any-
thing that is continuous is good as a general principle.
The Tess interrupted your line of movement is, the more
convenient; whether you move by your feet, or on horse-
back, or by railway, the principle is the same.
You would see no objection to a connecting railway
2iv
,c'isliner London, and skirting instead of going through
it understand the question to be, whether if you
make a turning, instead of .'going in a, straight line, it
would inconvenient. I say not arall ;itis a mere
queseinn of time whether I go round that curve, which
takes:ten minutes longesirthan the straight line,
Youare eonstantiy u railways for the purpose of
moving troops at present:if:le" I have said to
the extent of about reeooo
; but not always, for
this reason—that a soldier :aYreriar Cr ought to carry, a
considerable weight upon his back,
be,
without
man can do
that, however strong he may
you
see
iitlitthwactice. If
e street, and
you take the strongest fellow
g,ht as a
before
be strap a package on his back of the same
soldier carries, it will be very inconvenient towleipiirmac
he had gone six miles. It is necessary to
Troops. are moved by railways more when the puhlic.
service requires celerity of movement.
Would-there be any great object in connecting Wool-
wich with Portsmouth by railway ?—I think so. Wool-
wich is an ordnance depot, and therefore any explana-
tion required with regard to the moving of ordnance
supplies would be much better given to you by an ord-
nance authority than iey me ; but on general principle, I
think irconvenient. The same principle applies to mili-
tary stores of all sorts.
To Sir—J: F. Blergoyne—l believe you have turned
your dttention very much to the system of national de-
fence and• die degree to which railways might contribute
to it ?--.1 have.

Do Ott Cousazer it a great object to connect Wool-
wich with, the southern and western ports of Er.gland
Engktud by rtsilwaY ?-.Certainly, of very great import•

ante. The old mode of conveyance was chiefly by water
round the coast, and, of course, was subject to great in-
terruption in time of war.
But that communication would be just as well aftbrded
by railway for your purposes if it did not come nearer to
London perhaps than two miles or thereabouts ?—Per-
fectly.
It is not necessary to come through the Leart of the
metropolis to effect the object which you have is view ?
—No, certainly not. Perhaps it is better avoided, as
in the case of transport of ammunition, &c.
And the same would apply, I suppose, to a connexion
between Woolwich, or between the south of England
and the north ; it might be just as well carried round
London as through it ?—Just so. I imagine that a few
miles in increase of length would make very little diffe-
rence in that respect, the great object is the continuity
and non-interruption of the intercourse.
Do you think it very desirable to connect all the nor-
thern and southern lines, in the event of national defence
being required ?—I think it of very great importance,
and one particular reason would be that the carriages
would be universally available. I should say, that
about 2,000 men require at least 100 carriages ; 2,000
men would be a small number for an emergency
upon an invasion, or in any case of that kind, where
you want to assemble a large number of troops ;
100 carriages is a large number to carry on ore line ;
therefore, it would be of considerable importance to
make the carriages of one line available for any other.
With the power that the railways ought to give us, I
think that every soldier of Great Britain might be as-
sembled on any one point within twenty-four hours, and
even from any part of Ireland within a few hours more.
But in bringing them by the different railways to Lon-
don, and moving them from London, unless you can
make all the carriages available, you would have to take
them down by driblets to the point of action; that
would be very objectionable, and lead to two things,
either in that way they must be taken near the enemy,
in which case they would be beaten in detail, or you
must take them at a distance of fifty or sixty miler,
which would be an inconvenience. It would take as
long to march from Guildford to the coast as for them
to get all the way from Edinburgh to London. I think
it a point of very great importance to preserve the con-
tinuity of the line.
So that the carriages of one railway might be avail-
able for all?—Yes.
Sir J. W. Gordon—That is to say, to have the same
gauge.
Sir J. F. Burgoyne—And the same gauge, of course.
At present the northern and southern lines are severed
by the Thames ?—Yes, unless you had a continuous line;
if the troops got to the terminus of the Portsmouth line
from the Birmingham line, for instance, they would find
only such a number of carriages as that 2,000 or 3,000
could go at a time ; if you had a continuous line you
could bring them all down from the northern lines, and
they would only be subject to the one inconvenience of a I
single column.

Supposing an invasion on the south coast, you could
bring the whole of the northern forces down, and they
could cross the Thames ?—Yes, you could have 20,000
or more men all at once.

One of the lines is proposed to run down from the
Great Western and the London and Birmingham, to
cross the Thames near Battersea, to join the South-
Western line?—Any communication, though it might be
circuitous, that would enable all the carriages to be ap-
plicable, I think, would meet the point I allude to.
Sir J. W. Gordon—l would mention, with regard to
all lines of road by which military supplies of any kind
are to be moved, that the Government ought certainly
to be consulted in the tracing of the line, and to have
the report of the proper military and civil authorities
before that line is traced ; and fur this reason, that in
case of military operations being carried on in the
country, if those lines which are intended only for com-
mercial purposes were found to interfere with those
operations, either by impeding our own movements or
facilitating those of the enemy, the duty of the com-
manding officer would be to destroy them.
To Sir J. F. Burgoyne—Are there any observations
which you can offer to the commission upon the subject
which they have before them, beyond what has been
stated by yourself and Sir Willoughby Gordon ?—I am
not aware that there are. The facility and rapidity of
steam navigation render 113 very susceptible of being
attacked on a sudden on the breaking out of a war,
arid it is very necessary to improve our means
of defence. The only resources which we have
are the navy, fortifications, and the concentration
of the troops ; the navy might not be able to come in at
particular periods ; the fortifications have all yet to be
made ; therefore it would be of still more importance to
facilitate the concentration of the troops. I conceive
that you might be able to concentrate your forces faster
than the enemy could land them ; there is great diffi-
culty in landing a large number of troops ; It takes a
very long time.
We are to understand that you attach very great im-
portance to a line being carried across the Thames to
connect the northern and the southern railways ?—Cer-
tainly, it is of very great importance, more particularly
in London than in any part of Great Britain.
[Alderman J. llumphery, M.P., examined.]
And the advantage of the extension (of the South-
Western) to London-bridge as regards the telegraph,
would be, that it would bring the telegraph nearer to
Lloyd's ?—lt would bring it to Lloyd's within a very
short distance.

It would bring it safely to a point so near Lloyd's,
that it might be continued to Lloyd's?—lt would. An-
other advantage, I think, of having the terminus here
would be with respect to the steam-boats coming east
and west of Low-lit-bridge, bringing troops going
south, south-west, or south-east. The Gravesend boats
come no farther at present than London-bridge ; they
come just through the bridge ; they are larger boats
than the penny boats, and bringing troops up from any
part of the Thames, they would bring them and land them
on the wharf, and those troops would go into the railway
carriages without being perceived by any person ; they
might walk up the staircase from the river to the plat- I
form, and the Government would be able to transport
these troops without being incommoded by the crowded
streets, or by any portion of the traffic that :might be in
that neighbourhood. Troops, also, coming from the
South-Western and proceeding by the South-Eastern,
or vice versa, could pass under the dry arches of London-
bridge to either station, without going through the
public streets, which I consider would be a great conve-
nience. The company having such a large frontage to
the river, I have been measuring, since I have been here,
the frontage of Somerset House ; I find it is 500 feet,
and the frontage which the South-Western Company
propose taking at London Bridge according to their plan
is 700 feet, consequently it is by 200 feet a larger front-
age next the river than the Somerset House frontage,
and therefore it would be a very imposing sight, and it
would be a place of very great traffic.

INSTITUTION OF CIVIL
ENGINEERS.
The first meeting of the session, Sir John Rennie,
President, in the chair, was held on Tuesday evening,
when a paper by Mr. Shears Assoe Just, C.E., was read,
descriptive of the iron dock gates constructed by Messrs.
Rennie for the Russian Government, and erected at
Sevastopol on the Black Sea :—" Sevastopol is very
peculiarly situated amidst rocky ground, rising so
abruptly from the shore that there was not
space for the buildings necessary for a dockyard.
On account of the depth of water close in shore, and
other natural advantages, the Emperor determined
to make it the site of au extensive establishment,
and as there is not any rise of tide in the Black Sea,
and the construction of cofferdams would hare been
very expensive and difficult in such a rocky position, it
was decided to build three locks, each having a rise of
ten feet, and at this level of shirty feet above the sea to
place a main dock with lateral docks, into which vessels
of war could be introduced, and the gates being closed,
the water could be discharged by the subterranean con-
duits to the sea, and the vessel being left dry, could be
examined and repaired even beneath the keel. A stream
was conducted from a distance of twelve miles, to sup-
ply the locks, and to keep the docks full. This, how-
ever, has been found insufficient, and a pumping en-
gine has since been erected by Messrs. Maudslay and
Field, for assisting. The original intention was to have
made the gates of the docks of timber, but on account of
the ravages of a worm, which it appears does not, as in
the case of the terede navaEs, or the terebrans, confine
itself to the salt water, it was resolved to make them
with cast-iron frames, covered with wrought. iron
plates. There are nine pair of gates whose openings
vary from 64 feet in width, and 34 feet 4 inches
in height, for ships of 120 guns, to 46 feet 7 inches
in width, and 21 feet in height, for frigates. The mani-
festation of such masses of metal as composed these gates
demanded peculiar machines ; accordingly, Messrs.
Rennie fitted up a building expressly with machines con-
structed by Mr. Whitworth, by which all the bearing
surfaces could be planed, and the holes bored in the ribs,
and all the other parts, whether their surfaces were
curved or planed. The planing was effected by tools
which travelled over the surfaces backward and forward,
cutting each way ; the piece of metal being either held
is blocks if the surface was plane, or turned on centres
if it was curved. The drilling was performed by ma-
chines, so fixed, that the pieces could be brought beneath
or against the drills in the required direction, and guided
so as to insure perfect uniformity and accordance
between them. Travelling cranes were so arranged as
to take the largest pieces from the wharf, and place them
in the various machines by the agency of a very few men,
notwithstanding their formidable dimensions ; the heel
parts in some cases being upwards of 34 feet long.
Each endless screw, for giving progressive motion to
the cutting tools, was 45 feet long. Some idea may be
formed of the manual labour avoided by the machines,
when it is stated that the surface planed or turned in the
nine pairs of gates equals 717,464 square inches, and in
some cases a thickness of three-quarters of an inch was
cut off. The surface in the drilled bolt-holes equals
120,000 square incises."
The paper gave all the details of the construction of
the gates and the machines for making them, anti was
illustated by a series of detailed drawings.
An interesting discussion followed, chiefly on the
peculiarity of the site selected for the docks, and the
supposed ravages of the worm in fresh water, as it was
of unusual occurrence. It seemed to be the opinion that
the temperature of climate influenced the ravages of
these insects.
I,,,ll,leTnaohtureetiveisting was held in the library, as the new
February, was
tsh• et tot
hdamp e
meetings
nbges used‘vou
would
withbe safety.h:ld
therelt
wo shall give an account of the altera-
tions to the builainerluring the recess.
The annual gene
meeting for the election of the
council, was announced
January 19. to take place on Tuesday,

IRON MASTERS' QUARTERLY AIBET-IN- G.—The first
of these meetings commenced at Walsall on Tuesday The
second was held at Wolverhampton, yesterday. he a.ttend-
ance was not large on either occasion ; but the resolution to
adhere to present prices, passed by the masters who met a►t
Wolverkauiptou ou Tuoday week, IY4 taitiutAirled,