The Sun.
London, England, 1847-05-06 00:00:00

TILE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY_ MORNING, MAY 6, 1847.

SUPPLY.
The report from the Committee of Supply was brought
up, received, and adopted.
POLICE CLAUSE BILL.
On the motion of Sir WILLIAM SOMERVILLE,
this Bill was referred to a Select Committee, to consist
of the following Members:—Viscount Morpeth, Mr.
Greene, Mr. Attorney-General, Viscount Sandon,
Viscount Ebrington, Sir William Heathcote, the Lord-
Advocate, Sir William Somerville, Mr. Brotherton, Mr.
Escott, Mr. Loch, Mr. Beckett, Dr. Bowring, Mr. Wil-
son Patten, and Mr. Morgan John O'Connell.
The LORD-ADVOCATE stated, in reply to a ques-
tion from an Hon. Member, that he would ascertain
whether the Bill could be applied to Scotland in its
present shape; if it could not, a Bill having especial
reference to that country would be introduced.
MEDICAL REGISTRATION AND MEDICAL

spect to the artisans of other countries? In Saxony,
in 1843, the same trade, that of hosiery, was
cirried on, and it was three times as great as that
of any other part of the world.—(The Hon. Member
here read the evidence of Mr. Widscombe in support of
this assertion, in which it was stated that the condition
of the people of Saxony engaged in the stocking trade
was far superior to the people of this country.) He
had received a letter from a gentleman opposed to
the Bill, himself a frame-owner, conscientious of great evils
in the system, who acknowledged that it was a scandal
and shame that it should exist.—(The Hon. Member
then read a number of extracts from the evidence before
the House, contained in the blue book, that the frame.
work system was most pernicious.)—(Hear, hear.) The
objects of the Bill were to do away with the sub-contrac
tors, to prevent any contract being made with any one
who was not himself a manufacturer; also to do away
with the frame rent. He was well aware how incompe-
tent he was to bring such a subject as the present under
the consideration of that House, but he sincerely hoped
the House would not refuse the inquiry he demanded,
and that it would give a second reading to this Bill.

Mr. WYNN ELLIS said that.it was so seldom that
he troubled the House with any observations that he
hoped that it would listen to the few remarks
he had to offer to their notice. The accounts
given by the Honourable Baronet of the distress and
misery which existed were by no means exaggerated,
and in his opinion it arose from the want of knowledge
on the part of those weavers, and their want of sufficient
energy to try to avoid bringing up their children in the
same misery as themselves. There had been a gradual,
but certain diminution in the export trade for many
years, and during that time the supply of labour greatly
exceeded the demand. The consequence was a fall in the
value of that labour, and the present existing distress.
The existence of this distress and the causes and con-
sequences of it had been amply set forth in the report of
a Commission upon this subject, but no remedy had
been applied. The Hon. Gentleman had, about two
years ago, brought in a Bill upon this subject, but owing
to the incorrect construction of the principal clause it
became inoperative. That Bill in the first instance con-
templated the removal of what was called " middle men"
and such:an Act would be most injurious. The evils arising
from that system were much less than was really stated,
and considerable good was effected by it. (The Hon.
Member then proceeded to quote at some length the evi-
dence of Mr. Biggs, as given before the Commission.)
This branch of trade furnished another instance of the
evils of protection, for had the corn-laws not existed,
they would not have found the destitution that existed
amongst this class of artizans. From the authorities on
this question it appeared that in foreign countries
there was a better state of things. For instance,
in Saxony the stocking-workers were much better
off than they were at present in England.—(Hear.)
He felt convinced that great evils would result from
sending the Bill to a Committee up stairs. In the pre-
sent state of trade it would produce an ill-feel-
ing, which would be most ;pernicious, if it
would not produce a stagnation of trade. Upon
these grounds, therefore, he would vote against the Bill,
but he also objected to it on principle, for he would like
to know on what grounds the Hon. Gentleman desired
to interfere with the frame rent.

Mr. GISBORNE said this Bill was a corollary on the
Factories Bill ; it was founded on the principle
of a fair day's wages for a fair day's work.
He would have been glad to see the First Lord
of the Treasury in his seat, and the Home
Secretary. They had entered into a course which
they could not carry out. He believed that no
exaggeration of the distresses of these manufac-
turers had been made, but he contended such
measures as these would not remedy the evil.
They alone in this country carried on a struggle which
was no longer attempted in the United States or in
France. In these repeated attempts to destroy the self-
reliance of the working-classes, though they had struggled
mlnfully, he saw much to apprehend. It was a dan-
gerous experiment that was being made in this inter-
ference with the working classes. The Honourable
Baronet wanted to persuade the House that it
was a most profitable thing to be a pos-
sessor of these frames ; but the fact was
that the contrary was quite the case.—(Hear.)
The whole principle that had been acted upon, was
founded upon the assumption that the hosiers were the
most destructive and worst class in the country. He bad
often told that class of persons that from this House they
could not expect that redress which they required. He
contended that those who supperted the Factory Bill
were bound to look to this matter.

Mr. MILNER GIBSON suggested that the Bil
should not be proceeded further with that day, as i
would interfere with the other business of the House.

After some conversation as to what day the debate
should be resumed, to-morrow was fixed for that purpose.
MEDICAL REGISTRATION AND MEDICAL

LAW (IRELAND) BILL.

Mr. WARLEY moved the postponement of the
second reading of this Bill till Monday, and he would,
after its second reading, propose that it should be re-
ferred to a Select Committee, when any alterations that
might be required might be introduced.

After a few words-from Sir GEORGE GREY and
Mr. HUME,

Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that, before voting, as
was proposed by the Hon. Member for Montrose, for
a Select Committee, it should be remembered that it
would depend upon whether the Hon. Member for
Finsbury would take the chair and the Hon. Member
for Montrose would attend.—(Laughter.)

Mr. HUME said he would-do his best in the matter.

Mr. WAILKLEY said he could not engage to attend
at the Committee in question till the differences of the
profession were settled, for he would have to sit there
till one day after the day of judgment; but if the Com-
mittee were granted hew uuld do what was in his power
to carry out the Bill he had introduced.

The second reading of the Bill was then postponed
till Monday next.
TENANTS (IRELAND) BILL.

Mr. SHARMAN CBAWFORIS postponed the
Tenants (Ireland) Bill till to-morrow (Thursday).

COUNTY BUILDINGS -ACT.

This Bill went through Committee and was ordered
to be reported to-morrow.'
The House then resumed.

NAVAL SERVICE OF BOY'S BILL.
This Bill went through Committee, and was ordered to
be reported on Friday.
The House then resumed.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of,
and the House adjourned at Six o'clock.

PARLIAMENTARY BUSINESS.
(From the Votes and Proceedings of the House of Commons.

TUESDAY, MAY 4.

NOTICES GIVEN AT THE PRIVATE BILL-OFFICE.

RAILWAYS. -,....•
Select Committee on Group No. 17.
Mr. Du Pre discharged; Mr. Leslie selected, and added to
the Committee.

Select Committee on Group No. 24.
Mr. Neville discharged; Mr. Du Pre selected, and added
to the Committee.

Select Committee on Group No. 26.
Mr. Hutt and Mr. Forster discharged ; Mr. Duncan and
Mr. Prime selected, and added to the Committee.

PARLIAMENTARY DIVISIONS.

(From the Votes and Proceedings of the House of Commons.

TUESDAY, MAY 4.
DUBLIN IMPROVEMENT BILL.

Order for second reading read ; Motion made and Question
proposed, " That the Bill be now read a second time :"
Amendment proposed, to leave out the word " now," and
at the end of the Question to add the words " upon this day
six months :"—Question put, " That the word now' stand
part of the Question." The House divided :

MINORITY—AYES, 108.
Aldam, William Ewart, William O'Ferrall, R. M.
Antrobus, Edmund Ferguson, Colonel Ogle, S. C.
Armstrong, Sir A. Forster, Matthew Parker, John
Arundel, Earl of Gibson, T. M. Pinney, William
Austen, Colonel Gisborne, Thomas Plumridge,Captain
Baine, Walter Hall, Sir Benjamin Price, Sir R.
Bannerman, A. Hatton, Captain V. Rawdon, Colonel
Baring, F. T. Hay, Sir A. Rice, E. R.
Barnard, E. G. Heron, Sir R. Rich, Henry
Barron, Sir 11. W. Hill, Lord Marcus Romilly, John
Bellew, R. M. Howard, C W.G. Ross, D. R.
Bernal, Ralph Howard, P. H. Russell, Lord John
Bouverie, E. P. Hume, Joseph Russell, Lord C.
Bowring, Dr. Humphery, Ald. Rutherford, A.
Bright, John Hutt, William Scrope, G. P.
Brotherton, Joseph James, William Shell, R. L.
Brown, W. Jervis, Sir John Smith, Benjamin
Buller, Charles Labouchere, Henry Smith, R. V.
Butler, P. S. Lascelles, W. S. Somerville, Sir W.
Byng, G. S. Lawless, Cecil Stanfield, W. R.
Callaghan, D. Layard, Major Stanton, W. H.
Cayley, E. S. Le Marchant, Sir D. Strickland, Sir G.
Chapman, B. Loch, James Strutt, Edward
Cholmeley, Sir J. Macaulay, T. B. Tancred, H. W.
Colebrooke, Sir T. M`Carthy, Alex. Thornely, T.
Conyngham, Lord A. M‘Taggart, sir J. Towneley, John
Crawford, W. S. Maher, N. Trelawny, J. S.
Dawson, T. V. Maitland, Thomas Tuthell, Relay
Dennistoun, J. Mangles, R.:D. Villiers, Charles
Duncan, Lord Marshall, William Ward, H. G.
Duncan, George ' Marsiand, Henry Watson, Henry
Duncombe, Thomas . Moffatt, George Wawia, J. T.
Dundas, Sir David Monahan, J. H. Winnington, Sir T.
Ebrington, Lord Morris, David Wyse, Thomas
Escott, Bickham O'Brien, C. TELLXII.B,
Evans, William O'Brien, Timothy O'Connell, M. J,
Evans, Sir De Lacy O'Conor, Don Browne, R. D.

RAILWAY COMMITTEES,

HOUSE OF COMMON S.—(YESTERDAY.)
GROUP V.
The Committee met this morning, at twelve; Lord harry
Vane in the Chair.

WINDSOR.

The Committee were occupied most of the day with
evidence against the Bill, as to the injury which would be
done to Eton by the railway passing through the grounds of
the college, and to the town and precincts of Windsor.
The Earl of Lincoln and others were examined.
The Committee adjourned till to-morrow.

Mr. ATEREWEATHER summed up on behalf of the Norfolk
Railway Company.

GROUP XXXIX.
The Committee to whom this group was referred met this
morning at the usual hour, in Room 12; Lord Wellesley in
the chair.

HARTLEPOOL AND STOCKTON JUNCTION.
Mr. Jackson's cross-examination was then resumed by Mr.
Gray. He was also cross-examined by Sir Walter Riddell,
on behalf of the Duke of Cleveland's trustees; and was after-
wards re-examined by Mr. Rowe.
Mr. James Gascoyne Lynn, civil engineer, was then exa-
mined by Mr. RowE—He deposed to the practicability of
the construction of the line, and to there being no engineer-
ing difficulty of any magnitude.
Mr. Gregory, civil engineer, corroborated the evidence of
the last witness as to the practicability of the line in an engi-
neering point of view.
Mr. Johnson, merchant in Hartlepool, was then examined
as to the traffic, when the case for the promoters closed.
The case of the opposition will be gone into to-morrow.
The Committee adjourned at four o'clock.