The Sun.
London, England, 1841-04-29 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY, APRIL 29, 1841.

never should have thought of proposing a beneficial
I interest to be defined in the manner suggested. If
therefore the House hereafter should discover some
other franchise by which the parties he sought
to enfranchise would be admitted to the right of
voting, he should then propose the amendment
which was in part adopted by the House. But, per-
haps, a more important amendment was that he was
about to propose, since that went to alter the nature of
the occupation franchise of his Noble Friend, and to do
away with the necessity of a lease in order that electors
might obtain the right of voting by occupation, and in
consideration of the beneficial interest. It appeared to
him that what passed in the House on a former evening
did not give him any reason to think that be was wrong
in the proposition which he laid before the House, and
which had been adopted by it. His Noble Friend on
that side of the House had on that occasion refused to
enter into any argument on the subject. He made no
attempt to show how it was possible that they could
with a franchise founded on a I, asehold qualification,
or obviate the diminution in the number of electors that
was avowedly going on under the present system, and
which was mainly attributable to the unwillingness of
the landlords to grant leases. The argernents which he
had advanced relative to the disadvantages arising from
holders of small properties, and claiming the franchise on
account of their leases, were not disapproved. He had
shown that persons possessing small holdings were gene-
rally more needy and dependent than tenants of a
higher class. On the other hand, the Hon. Member
for North Lancashire, if he (Lord Howick) correctly
collected the import of what fell from him, had not
merely admitted that he had no objection to the
principle which he (Lord H.) advanced, but even
went so far as to say if that principle had bcee adopted
and embodied in the measure by her Majesty's Go-
vernment, he would have been prepared to give it his
acquiescence, at least be would be prepared —he
thought the expression of the Hon. Member for Lan-
cashire
was —to give it respectful consideration.
Ha would be sorry to misconstrue the words which fell
from them on that occasion. He clearly understood
them to disclaim giving any opinion whatever as to the
details, as to the amount of occupation which might be
required. But although to this extent the principle
was admitted by his Noble Friend and the Right Hon.
Baronet opposite, it was stated by thesis that they
would not be prepared even to consider the
details of such a measure, unless it were
brought forward by the authority and on the respon-
sibility of her Majesty's Govcrnment.—(Hear, hear.)
That being their opinion, it was plain that in moving
the amendment of which he bad given notice, he had
no support to expect from the other side of the House.
—(Hear,.) On his (Lord Howick's) side of the House,
he was equally unable to expect any support, because
although his Noble Friends did not think proper at
that time to enter into the agreement, they distinctly
stated their intention to resist the amendment which he
had in contemplation. The result of the division on
the former night proved to them that be could
not calculate on any support from that side
of the Hcouse, even from those Gentlemen with
whom he generally concurred in opinion. Such being
the case, it would be manifestly useless to bring forward
the amendment, and he would not waste the tinse of
the House by proposing an amendment, though
he was convinced that it would tend to a satisfactory
adjustment, if this much disputed question had not the
least chance of meeting with acquiescence. Of
course, with the opinions he had expressed, this
amendment fell to the ground. It would be
impossible for him, however anxious he was to
co-operate with her Majesty's Government in
placing the franchise on a satisfactory footing, to
support the clause which they were going to bring un-
der consideration of the House. He would not trouble
the House by repeating the arguments in opposition to
that clause which he had used on a former occasion ; he
would only say that he had heard nothing which had
led him to believe that he had attached an
undue weight to those arguments. He could
not, however, support the clause as it was about
to be proposed—(Hear, hear, from the Opposi-
tion)—and he must confess he could not but feel sur-
prised that her Majesty's Government should cad upon
the House to decide on it, for every man who knew
anything of political affairs, of the state of parties in
Parliament, end the country, must be aware that, al-
though the clause proposed might or might
not pass that House, still there was no
human probability- that a franchise, founded on that
principle, could possibly pass into a law.—(Loud cheers
Irons the opposition.) He thought there was not the
remotest probability of carrying it, and he considered
that the further debating the subject would tend merely
to the increasing the party excitement in that House ;
and, what would be still more unfortunate, would in-
crease the party excitement and the party animosity
which now prevailed on that subject in Ireland. He thought
the result must be, that the subject must continue another
year without any effectual attempt being made to re-
medy these evils. He believed that the franchise
required definition and explanation before they could
apply any remedy to the present state of things.
He believed the system of registration to be faulty, but
he also believed, and could show from the information
before the House, that almost ad the faults of the
system of registration in Ireland, all the abuses,
and all the evils which had been complained of;
flowed mainly from the present undefined state of the
franchise.—(Cheers.) They did not define what was
the means of obtaining the franchise, and that was the
real cause of all the evils.—(Hear, hear.) He
did not attribute those evils which were admitted
to exist on all sides, to the defective tribunals
for registration, nor to the deficiency of an an-
nual registration. The reel cause of abuse was
in the franchise itself. It was based on a fact
which they had no certain means of ascertaining ;
and to prove this fact, he would merely allude
to certain Returns which had been moved for
by the Hon. and Learned Member for Bandon. The
Hon. and Learned Member had moved for a return of
the number of claims put in, and of the number allowed
in different parts of Ireland. Among other parts in-
troduced in the returns was the county of Cork. In
that, the largest county in Ireland, 12,000 claims
bad been made, and only 1,000 established, so that
for every single claim established twelve bad been put
forward for discussion. In twelve case they had all
the litigation and all the discussion.—(" No, no," from
Mr. Sergeant Jackson.) He knew to what the Hon.
and Learned Member alluded—he meant that every one
of the twelve was not carried forward for litiga-
tion. But the return, at all events, showed
how great must be the uncertainty when twelve per-
sons could be led to believe that they had a right to the
franchise as well as every one who established it. That
was a monstrous and crying evil, and one which must
continue at least for another year, because it arose
entirely from the uncertainty of the franchise.
He thought his Noble Friend could obtain no object in
pressing forward his Bill, and any attempt of that kind
on the other side in resisting the further progress of
the Bill would be attended with precisely the same
effect. It woulil krep up existineanimosity, and make more
difficult at some future period 'a
settlement of that ques-
tion. He was persuaded that such would be the effect of
pressing forward the Bill at present, and he could not
help asking the Right Hon. Baronet and his Noble
Friend whether, if it were not fit to deal with the franchise,
and attempt to accomplish that highly necessary reform
unless that reform was taken up by her Majesty's
Goovernment, proposed upon their responsibility and
by their authority —if that principle held good
with respect to the reform of the franchise,
did not the same principle hold equally good with re-
spect to the reform of the tribunal?—(Cheers.) Did
it not hold more than equally good when it appeared
from the facts elicited in the course of the debate that
the first step towards the accomplishment of that
object was a clear definition of the franchise. He was
persuaded that such was the case—it was impossible to
dell with the subject, except as a whole, and, unfortu-
nate as might be the result of leaving Ireland to suffer
another year under the evils of the present registration
system, and the present inadequate franchise, he thought
under the circumstances in which they were now
placed, that such was the inevitable result.
He did think, that if the House was actuated by a real
and earnest desire to legislate for the public good, and
net for the purpose of party and faction, a differ-
, ent result might have been obtained. The country had
a right to inquire, and would inquire, why so im-
portant a question had not been settled. He did not
wish to lay blame on either side, but this he must say,
that if her Majesty's Government had proposed a mea-
sure retaining as much as practicable of the existing
law, and supplying any difference in the number of elec-
tors, !at the same time establishing a clear definition
of the beneficial interest —if they had proposed
a measure of that sort founded upon a careful investi-
gation of facts, and supported by full and satisfactory
information, he was certainly bound to believe from the
declarations that were made on the other side of the
House, that in point of principle, at least, no objection
to such a measure, so brought forward and so sup-
ported, would have been urged. Eves upon
the details of such a measure, it was not im-
possible that an agreement might have been
come to. He supposed that any hopes of that sort were
now at an end. He would conclude the few observa-
tions he had thought proper to make to the House, by
expressing his hope that in declining to persevere in an
amendment of which he had given notice, the House
would give him credit for not acting on hasty and insuf-
ficient reasons, or in not having brought forward an
amendment which might have been the means of recon-
ciling conflicting parties,—and on the other hand, when
he found that the proposition was not received in the
manner in which he had hoped, the House would think
he had acted right in not persevering in it.—( Hear.)
Sir It. PEEL—The few observations I have to
make on the present occasion will be exclusively confined
to a statement of the course I took on Monday
night, when this Bill was last under discussion,
and the position in which we now stand
with respect to any future proceedings on
the subject. I understood her Majesty's Government,
as a Government, as the executive administration en-
trusted with the confidence of their Sovereign, and