The Sun.
London, England, 1824-06-11 00:00:00

POOR IN IRELAND.

The Bishop of RAPHOE held a petition which was a
monument of the union and harmony which happily prevailed
amongst individuals of different communions in the place from
whence it was sent. It was from the Parish of Kilmore, in
the County of Armagh, and was signed by the Rector, Curate,
and Churchwardens of the 'Parish, by the Catholic Priest,
the Dissenting Minister, and the Inhabitants of all per-
-suasions. They prayed that a law be enacted to authorise the
inhabitants of any parish in Ireland to maintain its own
poor; but they did not wish that the enactment should be im-
perative. As the law now stood, the poor who were unable,
from age or infirmity, to work for their own subsistence, had
no other means of support than the charity of the parishioners.
He should do an injustice to the character of the people if he
did not say that the most charitable disposition prevailed, but,
through want of good management, the benefits which it would
otherwise produce were greatly reduced, and the misery.of the
poor scarcely alleviated. The Petitioners believed•tiraesesum
very little larger than that now expended in 'alms would- be
sufficient, under a judicious management, to afford effective
relief. A system of poor laws, such as the one existing in
this country, would by no means be practicable in Ireland,
and if practicable would not be desirable. But the dread'of
introducing it was imaginary, and, he hoped, would not pre-
vent the object of the Petitioners from being granted; for all
they asked was, that the voluntary acts of the inhabitants
themselves be authorized and confirmed by law. The Right
Rev. Prelate was then understood to describe the evil caused
by emigration as greater in Ireland than in England, where it
had, however, excited so many complaints, as most of the men
who came over to work in this country left their wives and
children without support behind them. He concluded by
moving that the Petition be read.
• The Earl of LIM ERICK had never been more surprised
than when he heard such a measure introduced to their Lord-
ships' notice from such a quarter. He spoke in the hearing
of many Noble Peers connected with Ireland, who would set
him right if he was wroni3, when he said that a proposition
of that sort would be received with terror and affright in Ire-
land, as one which, whatever shape it might at first assume,
would end by establishing in that country, the same system of
poor-laws which had done so much harm in this. It was really
wonderful how generous men were of the property of others.
He would suggest to his Right Reverend Friend a source from
which it would be more-natural and proper that relief should
flow. In the original institutio of benefices, their produce was
divided into three parts : one ,of these was allotted for the
maintenance of the Incumbent; the second for the repairs of
the Church; and the third for the support of the Poor. If
this disposition were revived, there might be no occasion
for the establishment of Poor Laws. The only thing at
which he rejoiced in the Petition was the harmony which evi-
dently prevailed amok+ t the various parties by whom it had
been signed.
• EarI•DARN LEV, though he had estates in Ireland, did not
look with the same horror and terror as his Noble Friend to the
measure prayed for by the petitioners. Something should be
done for the relief of the poor in Ireland, but without proceed-
ing so far as to establish the same system of poor laws as
existed in this country.
Earl FITZWILIAAM put it to their Lordships whether
a provision called for by every class and religious denomina-
tion-in this particular parish
might not be adopted merely as an
experiment ?
After a few words from Viscount CLIFDEN, the petition
was read and laid on the table.
The Earl of LAUDE RDA LE presented a petition from the
London Mechanics' Imitation, in favour of the Equitable
Loan Company Bill.—Laid on the table.
• The Marquis of DOWNSHIRE
IRELAND MINES COMPANY.
moved the second reading
of the Ireland Mines Company -Bin.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE said, that to read-that Bill a
second time without first referrine it to a Select Committee
would be to violate the Standing
Order which their Lordships
had established last week. It was however competent for the
Noble Marquis to move that it be suspended.
The Earl of II ARROW BY was one of those who had given
his vote for excluding Bilk respecting Joint Stock Companies
connected with Ireland, from the operation of the New Stand-
ing Orders: els it was sometimes necessary, for the purpose of
securing tranquillity to Ireland, to overlook some of those con-
stitutional principles by which legislation was generally di-
rected, it was also just, when her interests-required it, to over-
look some of those general principles of political economy by
which the conduct of Parliament was usually regulated. The
nature of the present Bill was such, that it was morally impos-
sible that a large proportion of the capital should be wanted for
a long time ; and it could not be expected that such a sum as
400,0001., should be unnecessarily locked up in Exchequer
Bills, at an interest of only 3per cent., long beforeit was want.
ed. The Bill afforded sufficient security that its objects would
be carried into effect. The Gentry of Ireland had come for-
ward, not with a view- to profit, but for the purpose of doing
the greatest possible good to their country ; under these circum-
stances he trusted that their Lordships would agree to the
motion with which he should conclude,. that the Standing
Orders be suspended.
- The 'Marquis of LANSDOWN ontirely concurred with the
sentiments and the motion of the Noble Earl. He did not per-
ceive great utility in the multiplication of standing orders; but
if the system of increasing them continued, he should be dis-
posed to propose one, directing that no standing order should
be adopted unless it had previously lain three weeks on their
Lordships' table.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE did not appose the motion of
the Noble Earl for suspending the last adopted Standing
Orders, but defended their general utility.
The motion was then agreed to, the Standing Orders sus-
pended, and the Bill was read a second time.
The Earl of KINGS lON presented various petitions from
parishes in the province of Munster, Praying that Churches
might be built, and the Clergy forced to reside. The Noble
Earl added that the Petitions were signed by Roman Catholics
as well as Protestants.—Laid on the table.
INSURRECTION' ACT.
The Earl of HA RR()%ITBY having moved the third reading
of the Irish Insurrection Act Continuance Bill,
Earl DARNLEY said, that nothing but extreme necessity
could induce him to give his assent to continue the measure for
a single year. Ile trusted that a more extended inquiry would
take place into the state of Ireland, with a view to adopt a
more permanent system of relief : and he was convinced, that
if that system was not founded on the restoration of rights to
peace would never
ebveereystcalbalsisshoef ndidi.TvihdeuNalsoiilnktlEmatrcleuwnatsryg,
oitieng
to comment on
the evidence produced before the Committee of Inquiry, when
The Earl of LIVERPOOL objected to the course followed,
as that evidence was not on their Lordships, table. The time
would come when it would be right to lay the whole or the
greater part of it before Parliament ; but the Committee had
thought that its production at present would only mar the ob-
jects of the inquiry. They considered themselves pledged to
renew it next year on the most extended Scale possible ; but
they were of opinion that the best way of coming to a satisfac-
tory result, was not to discuss the subject piecemeal.
Earl DA RN LE Y explained.
The Marquis of LANSDOWN stated, that if any indi-
vidual of the Committee was more to. blame than another
from having prevented the evidence from being laid before the
House, he was that individual, as he conceived that it would
only serve to excite unsatisfactory discussions. Ile did not
wish to delay the third reading of the Bill, but should move
that the Report of the Committee be previously read, as it had
not been printed, in order to put Noble Lords in possession
of its contents, and to shew them that neither by its terms or
by voting for the present renewal of the Bill, they should