The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-20 00:00:00

NDON, SATURDAY, FI4IBRITAR V 20, I‘=4l.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, FEB. 19.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY took his scat on the Wool-
' sack at Five o'Clock.
EARL OF CARDIGAN.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY, immediately upon
taking his seat, moved that the Lord Speaker should
give his orders for the publication of the Trial of the
Earl of Cardigan.
The Earl of ELDON wishe I to take the oppor-
tunity of adverting to a circumstance that had
taken place on the trial of the Noble Earl. Orders
were given by the House for the attendance of all the
Peers, Judges, and the different officers of the House.
Now the Masters in Chancery being considered the
messengers of that House, one of them on the occasion
of the trial of the Noble Earl came down and was
refused admission by the officers of the House, stating
that the reason of the refusal was, that no orders hid
been given by the Lord Great Chamberlain for their ad-
mission. He (the Noble Earl) had no doubt that the
omission of such order had been quite unintentional.
He however thought it his duty to allude to the subject.
There was another circumstance to which he wished
also to allude, and that was, that in a portion of the
address of her Majesty's Attorney. General he made
use of the expression—no doubt out of regard to the
Noble Lord at the Bar—that he was glad in having
to prosecute that Noble Lord—that he could say that
there was nothing of moral delinquency in his conduct,
Now, unless it was stated that the Right R tvereed Pre-
lates had requested remission to retire in the early part
of the day, it might he supposed that they concurred in
the observation of the Learned Gentleman. He (the
Earl of Eldon) was sure that those Right Reverend
Prelates would never countenance such proceedings as
had taken place ; and although he (the E irl of Eldon),
was prepared to say that the present state of seem y
cowl t net go on unless allowances ►were made for the
feelings of parties in certain situations, yet Le must
confess that his opinion was that the high feelings of
her Majesty's Attorney-General had carried him
too far when he made that statement to which
he (the Earl of Edon) alluded.
Toe Bishop of LONDON apprehended that the
Right Rev. Prelates- not be implicated, even if
they had been present, as been-riling to the statement
of the Learned Attorney General, because they
attended there on the occasion merely as Peers.
Had he been present he should -have heard
that sentence with great regret, because he Lelieved
that there was nothing that called far the ex-
pression, and therefore the Learned Attorney. General
had gone beyond the limits of his province. He hoped
that. their Lordships would take the question which
ways involved in the trial into their consideration, in
order to sc.! whether something could not be done
to put an end to a custom which had ori-
ginated in a barbarous age. It was the remains
of that chivalry, which perhaps was of great use
at the time it prevailed, but which was totally incon-
sistent with the manners and customs of the present day.
Earl MOUNTCASHEL wished to put a ques-
tion to her Majesty's Ministers on the subject of duel-
lieg. He thought something ought to he done on the
subject, for if it were c4low•ecl to stop there, the House
would be considered as giving colour to the shameful ma-
lignity that had been shown in several instances. The
question that he wished to put was whether it was
the intention of her Majesty's Government,
Lord BROUGHAM—A new question cannot be
put across the House while there is one question unde-
cided before it.—(Hear, hear.)
The Earl of SHAT' TESBURY wished to say, with
reference to the statement made by the Noble Earl
(Eldon), that all the Judges and Peers were ordered
to attend ; but that the Masters in Chancery, by virtue
of their office as messengers of the House, had no claim
to attend there.

After a few observations from tLe Marquis • of
LANSDOWNE, which did not reach us,
Lord ELLENBOROUGH said there was some
thing erroneous in the :t3terneat of the Noble Lord.
The Bishops had no more reason to kite t'..e House
Ohm any tallier individual. He (Lord Etlenborough)
apprehended it was open to any Peer en any
occasion to" leave the House tv;thout voting. It
was so held in alit was
_commonly called the
Queen's trial. The House could compel the' attend-
ance of Peers et their proceeclingq, but they could not
compel Peers to vote. Thecae might be one on which
a Peer could not eon q;ientiortily vote.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said he had no
doubt that a Peer had a right to withdraw and
not vote ; but the reason be apprehended why the
Bishops wished tl retire, yet did so under protest,
was to assert and maintain their right of sitting at all
proceedings, and, if they liked, to vote.
Lord BEDESDALE said the Bishops had made
the same protest in the case of the Duchess of Kim,-
ston. He believed the Lords Spiritual always claimed
the right, because the Peers denied their right of sitting
in judgment on Peers. _ . .

The- Earl of SHAFTESBURY said he believed it
would be found that the proceedings were in the usual
form. It was u,sual.
_for the-..,44,40ps to ask leave to re-
tire without voting, and it had been done on this
occasion as en former trials. It was previous to their
Lordships being caed upon to give their vcrdht
that the Archbishop of Canterbury asked leave for
the Lords Spiritual to retire. The Nob'e Earl then
moved that the Lord Speaker should give directions
for the printing of the Trial of the Ein of Cardigan, on
Tuesd.ty last.—Agreed to.
The Earl of RIPON gave notice, that on Monday
next he should move for correspondence relative to cer-
tain transactions with the Court of Persia.
DUELLING.

The Earl of MOUNTCAS HE L then rose to put a
question to her Majesty's GON ernment. He believed the
trial thet had recelitly taken place in their Lordships'
House was for duelling, yet he found, that no
later than yesterday morning, a duel had taken place,
et which one of the patties was wounded. He con-
ceived, according to the Act of Victoria, these parties
ought to be taken up and brought to trial. He
thought this a favourable opportunity of bringing the
question before their Lordships. It was his opinion that
duds might be put a stop to ; but the way to do it
would be to pass an Act to meet the different cases that
were productive of duels. Duels might he divided into
two classes. Those resulting from minor insults and
offences, and those from offences of a graver nature.
He believed that in Prussia there was a Court of
Honour, which worked well, and he wished a similar
measure was adopted in this country. The classes of a
serious nature ought to be taken itito consideration. If
a man seduced another man's sister, her brother called
him out. And why ? Because the ltw afforded him
no redress. He conceived offences of this nature ought
to be made criminal offences. He thought it a great
defect in the law that if a man's daughter were seduced,
he could only bring an action for the loss of his daugh-
ters services. He was sure, though some Noble Lords
might think lightly of it, that this was a grert defect.
The Noble Earl then adverted to the discipline of f.,e
army and the conduct of superior officers towards their
inferiors, which, we understood him to say, was produc-
tive of duelling.—(Hear, hca-.) He trusted her
Majesty's Ministers would see the necessity
of taking this subject into their consideration.
If they did not do so they would become still more

unpopular than they were at present. If they were
not prepared to bring in a Bill on the subject, let
them appoint a Committee on the subject, because,
as the law at present stood, a man did not know
how to act, and might give offence unintentionally.
He wished, therefore, to know whether it was the in-
tention of the Government to bring in any measure for
the effectual prevention of duelling?
Lord MELBOURNE was deeply sensible of the
importance of the subject; at the same time he was
not. prepared to say that it was the intention of the
Government to bring in any measure with reference to
duelling. It would be difficult to discos er any means of
giving greater strength or effect to public opinion on
the subject than it at present had.
. POOR-LAWS (IRELAND).
The Earl of GLENGALL begged to ask if it was
the intention of her Majesty's Government to bring
forward any measure to alter the Irish Poor-law Act as
regarded the appointment of returning: officers. The
present system bad been productive of
,great evil.
The Marquis of NORMANBY, withiiut admitting
the evils to which the Noble Earl alluded; begged to say
that the attention of the Government and the Com-
missioners had been directed to the subject, and had
had given directions that all future elections should be
conducted as far as possible on an unobjectionable
principle. He was not aware, however, of the neces-
sity for any alteration in the law. Mr. Nichols had
stated that it was intended at the next election to try
the experiment of appointing the clerks of the unians
as returning officers, and he had no doubt it would be
successful, as by that means they would steer clear of
political feeling.
The Earl of GLENGALL vas very sorry to bear
that such was the intention of the Government. The
clerks of the unions were in many cases appointed
by partisan boards of guardians, and the evl, would
thus be perpetuated. It was his intention to bring
forward a motion on the subject very shortly, and the
manner in which the returning-officers were appointed
would form a distinct feature in that motion.
The Marquis of NORMANBY had reminded the
Noble Earl that the matter was merely in the nature of
an experiment.
The Earl of WESTMEATH said the form of vet
ing for guardians in Ireland had given rise to perjury,
personation, and many other gross evils. The proper
voters were swamped by pauper votes, and the conse-
quence was that very improper guardians bad been re-
turned. The law now provided no remedy for an im-
proper election, and it could not be set aside. Nothing
would put an end to the system but the establishment
of open voting.
The Marquis of NORMANBY thought the views
ente7talued by the Noble Earl were much exaggerated.
No .Imil,t in country where an entire new system had
bLyl, I:..,rne evils V, CIL' ti 1;1: r:),-
pected, but his information did not ,lead, to believe
floral() be so great as stated by die N6lO Earl ,He

could only repeat that both the Commissioners and the
Government had the intention of meeting the evil
wherever it might be proved.
The Eal of FINGAL said the system had not yet
had a fair trial. It would therefore be preMature to
make any alteration such as that suggested by the
Noble Earl. Open voting would make a radica altera-
tion in the law ;_it would deprive the owner of his
right to vote by proxy and plurality of votes.
The Earl of WESTMEATH would willingly give
up those rights for the object of getting rid of the
pauper voters. _

- After a few words from Lord FITZGERALD and
the Earl of FINGAL, the conversation dropped.
Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from an
individual, complaining of the Copyhold Enfranchise-
ment Act.