The Sun.
London, England, 1812-02-29 00:00:00

ORDERS IN COUNCIL.

The Order of the Day upon: which their Lord=
strips were summene,d, being lead ;
The Marquis of LaNsnow N E said, he rose pur-
suant to the notice lie bad given, for the purpose of
calling their Lordships' attention 'to the subject of
the Orders in Council, and to the adual " state of
the trade of the country as it arose from these Or-
ders. He was actuated by the hope of inducing that
House to endeavour to arrest the course of these ca-
larnities, which arose from these most 'impolitic and
deleterious measures. Fie was impelled'hy a sense
of duty earnestly to call upon that House to give its
most serious attention to a subject, while yet it'could
proceed with deliberate dignity ; and ere the subject
Vas forced upon their attention iti a w.ly less con-
genial to its
.wishes, by the loud complaints and ad-
dresses of the unfortunate victims of such a system
of Measures. In discussing this important question, •
They would have to Consi(ler,first, its effect upon the
,ehen)y, whose vigour and resources it. was avowed-'
Y projected to paralyse; seC..ndly, ita effed upon
that remaining neutral power, whose interests were
of all others, the most importantly connected with
4°llr own—te hat its etncts were upon the internal 1
commerce, manufactures, and resources of this
`country, all which they were triumphantly. told it
Was eminently caleulartd to promote ; and lastly,
Ita effect's with respect to the system ofour maritime
Power ao-d superiority, which above all others, they.
Were told by its authors, it was calculated to vindi-
cate and uphold, The principle involved in this last
consideration, it was found, in former times, politic
Ind txpedient occasionally to depart from and- re-
t4ix;i but he could thew to their Lordships, that
salutary principle had neier beeu so greatly or
blitteeti,arily relaxed as by the very authors of this
s„,;;',Bted system.---He would, first of all, describe
ad"al these Orders were, with respect to the block-
"-, " established in May; 1806,- and the Order in
of January, 1807. He (the Marquis of
Lansdowne) would remark, that the intention of
those who proposed these particular measures, was
that the blockade should be a real and effedual one ;
but with respect to that Order in Council, it could
only considered as enrolee(' upon paper, as since
re annexation of H.imburgh and Holland to Fia7tce,
113 effectual enforcement was impracticable. The
Orders, however, to which he had most particularly
to call their Lordships' attention, were those issued
in Nov.-1807. These professed to place all the
pores of the enemy in a. state of virtual blockade. It
Would be here necessary to touch shortly, (be-
cause he did nut intend to enter- more than was
absolutely unavoidable into any other subject), that
!hey had the experience of five years with respect to
the tfficacy and consequences of this System of mea-
4,ures- He meant not to consider what effect they
tisl with respect to cottee-house consumption in
prance, et-upon the medicinal supply of her hos-
pitals, that would be a waste of their Lordships'
; but he meant to consider their political effeds
liti'no the strengt h and resources of the en .my— whe-
et they curtailed the extent of its dominions, or di-
ihisltedd its military resoutces ? What other Powers
mete induced by these Orders to aa any other part lion
shit of complete subserviency to France ? As far as
Orders in Council were intended-, they corn-
t "lel). failed in their riled. Those who held out hopes
4it the Continent was to be coerced through their
et c"cY, found it themselves expedient, at the end
heighteen 'months, to depart from the principle
°ll which they professed to ;let. In Od. 1809,
tY thought proper to open the ports of the North
of
Europe. The actual operation of their measures
oas to bein an inverve ratio of what was so confi-
efilllY insisted on. Even with regard to the ports
France el 4‘rance and Holland, eighteen months had not
thaVsed before the principle Was broken in upon by
ere authors of the system, through the medium
their licenses. It was then to be considered
whatll, the effect of the system, combined with the
"ea4Ure of licensing, had upon neutral nations ; and
-61 this view, he would particularly advert to the
Were Pre:tented from trading with any of the ports
h ,J2ranCe ; they were told, that on the principles of
rillgerent policy, such a prohibition was justifiable,
and that the ()hied was to retort up;on France the
:tins of its own injustice. He deprecated the effects of
:aell a system with resped to the U. States;and dwelt
.suPon the injurious effeds of authorising a commer-
`4al intercourse between France, and States more or
less dependant on her, and refusing it td America,
ho was totally independent of its power. The
'Qinmercial evils which resulted were equally evi-
dent and extensive.
,Five years since, manutadutes
the amount of twelve millions were annually
t•ransmitted to America. Why was such a lucrative
and desirable traffic interrupted ? 'Was it to raise
ta matiufaduring spirit in that great Continent,
.._!,(herto chiefly devoted "to agricultural pursuits ;
'4lthin the short space of four years, the diminution
?lour manufactured exports was incredible. The
United States were driven to the manutadore, and
they now exported a considerable quantity of cot.
tons to the Baltic and to- Trieste. His Lordship
iben read sortie extraas from a produe, ion, he said,
of a Learned Ciyiliat,, in support of his argumeut,

, •
end proceeded to observe, that die Jeag.of tb
Order's in Connell With resped to.the'Poli!ical :dis-
position of neutrals, Were highly injurious. The
original evi:s of the Orders themselves he Considea-
ed as aggravated by the expedient 61 licensing'; arid
the number of these were progressively increased
from 3 to 16,000 licenses in the course of a year.—
In this part of the subject it was essential to consider
to whom these licenses were granted, - by whom the
vessels so licensed, were manned,' and in these
points their destructive impolicy wax apparent.—
The far greater proportion of them were granted to
foreign vessels, which-wire tnarmed by foreign sea-
men, for the purpose of importing colonial produce
into. France, and taking her manufactures in return.
How infinitely preferable would it be to extend this
commetcial indulgence to a neutral independent of
the enemy, as-was the case with America ! The
House and the country should contemplate with
cheerful confidence, the existence, and growing
prosperity, of a great commercial power at the other
side of ,the Atlantic, completely independent of
France. It was not a ground of national boast on
the part of Ministers, that the trade flowing into
the ports of Brest, of •Nantz, or the Charente,
would have been American, but for their Orders in
Council. How then was it -? Were not the ves-
sels- those of countries subservient to France ?
Would nor the sailors so employed be used in the
naval service. of France, so as to regenerate her an-
cient means of annoying this country ? " Nor was
this all—this system oflicensing could not be car-
tied on'at present but at the expense of morality,and
commercial honour, fur which this country was
so long famed. If he were correctly informed, one
commercial character offered to give 15,00 W. for two
of these licenses,which he would have converted into
a kind of monopoly ; but on inquiry being made, it
was said to be a mistake at the office. He deprecated
a system which tended to •infuse a fraudulent and
corrupt spirit into the commercial transidions- of
the country. , A sentiment similar to this seemed
to be entertained even by the Learned Judge of the
Court of. Admiralty himself ; in illustration of
which,. the Noble Marquis referred to some senti-
ments expressed by that very learned Magistrate.—
A system so charaderisede his Lordship continued,
seemed to be the policy of the British Government;
its commerci it evils may, were there not a variety,
of other proofs, be known by the circumstance that
at present there were at least double the number
-of bankriiptcies there were fiur or five years since.
Were lie- to enter into all the different fanUres of
the Orders in Council, the detail would be painful
indeed. Upon the general, subjeet of the exports,
it would he very difficult, from a view of the official
statement, to form any. accurate estimate, as nurne-
roes articles were entered at the Custom-House,
which eventually paid no duty. He wished, how-
ever, to call their Lordships' attention to some
counts which which were that day laid on the table. nom '
these some idea may be gathered as to the injurious
tendency of the Orders in Council. They would
find that upon the three quarters ending the loth
Of October, an adual detJlCation of upwards of
fifteen millions in the exports as compared with
the preceding year, and this, were the colonial pro-
duce to, he calculated, Would amount to twenty-one
millions in the whole year. From what he had
stated, their Lordships would see the practical ef-
fects produced by the Orders in Council.; what effect
it had on the political power and the resources of
the enemy, and boa, they tended to assert and up-
hold the maritime superiority of tke country. He
wished as little as possible to touch ueon the subject
of the negotiations with America. He argued the
whole subjed with reference to its-expediency.--,-
He thought it his duty, hozit ever, to declare his sen-
timents, that if the Orders in Council were repealed,
the only remaining bar to-our return to a state of
amity with the United States would be removed,
and all the beneficial; the invaluable results of the
resioration to that state of things would be induced,
and all the deplorable calamities resulting from a
state of alienation or. hostility would be avoided !
What should they go to war for ? Was it for the
purpose of destroying a trade which, though it
must distress America in the first instance, would,
in the sequel, be more severely. felt by this country !-
What would- be the consequences of converting
140,000 seamen, and two minions of capital, into a
predatory marine, with rasped to British com-
merce ? The high-sounding epithets of national ho-,
nour, national pride,•and maritime superiority, may
be 'advanced against him. Such language was al-
ready introduced into public debates, official docu-
ments, and, above all, used in the negociations with
Ametica. He confessed he was inclined to see the
converse of these terms in the condud of Ministers,.
which •he must resolve into a want of national ho-
nour, pride, and a deterioration of our maritime
supremacy. It would far better become the high
character of Britain to at as the protector instead
of the destroyer of commerce. Such a line of con-
dud would, he said, lay the foundations of that
national prosperity which the country expeded, and
was entitled. to enjoy, and would establish her mari-
time superiority, and testore and invigorate the na-
tional power and resources. With these convic-
tions he was deeply impressed, and he felt himself
unable to do adequate justice to the due illustration
of truths of such vital importance to the empire ;
but this deficiency would be empty compensated by
those Noble Friends by whom he trusted he should
be followed. He would detain their Lordships no
longer, but would conclude by. moving, " That a
Select Committee of Lords be appointed for the
purpose of taking into consideration the effeds,pro-
duced by the Orders in Council, the granting of
licenses, and other points connected therewith."
The question being put,
Earl BATHU itST rose and observed, he should con-
fine himself to the consideration
.of those points in
the Noble Marquis's speech,' which did net appear
to him to be prope:,. or to refer to the pending dis-
cussions with the United States of America. He
was, for obvious reasons, averse, under the present
circumstances, from any introduction of topics into
public discussion, which would tend to -diminish
the chance which remained. of an amicable adjust-
ment. To refer properly to points connected with
the United. States, would be impossible, without-
entering into a fail. discussion of the condud of
America. He had to observe, that when the No-
ble Marquis had first given notice of his motion, he
had taken the liberty to ask what the Orders were,
which he was so anxious to have repealed. He was
not at that -tithe prepared to answer, and which not
a -.little surprised hire. He believed, that if any

,
Noble LA were to be anxious for the repeal
law, and 'not to be able to state what that law Was;
it would naturally be a matter of surprise. The
Noble Marquis had expatiated not a little tipcin the
subject of the Orders in Council. Yet, after all he
had heard, he was really at a less what the Orderi
were which he conceived should be f:•pealed ! It
was with much pleasure, however,. I listened to
the very temperate and deCent manner in which
the Noble Marquis had argued. the Subjeal. This
he deemed a rare felicity, when those attributes of
rank and birth, youth, and eloquende, were con-
sieered qualifications so very apt to mislead into 'a•
chErent extreme. He must repeat,' that from
what bad fallen from him, he (Earl Bathurst)
was at a loss what Orders he wished to repeal.
Was it the order of January, 1807, which was
issued by those with whom the, Noble Mai-psis
himself atied ? This p,erlops he could. not conclude
in the affirmative ; but what was there in that very
order which did trot apply to-Holland and to France,
as well as the others ? He should consider that
were this order to be repealed, they would not
adVance a step towards a reconciliation with Arne-
rica. The States considered it as dite& a violation
of their rights as those of the following November.
The blockade under that order was complained of
by America in common with the other pointse•ee
Without that repeal, the commerce of this country •
most remain under the system of American exelus
siorr, and to the disabilities of the Non-insist)! la-
Alta Ad. However, it was a matter of serious
consideration in what state the trade of Great Bri-
tain and of Ireland would be placed, were both the
Orders to be repealed. Much- stress was laid on the
effet.is-of the operation of the measure of granting
licenses, and he was aWare of the nature of the ap-
parent popular objett,on to these regulations; but
.with respect to the increase in the ',umbers issued;
that must naturally proceed from an increased com-
mercial intercourse; and from Atte nurebers of neu-
Iran residents in this country, who apply for such
licenses. But he must decidedly resist the idea, that
the country would, in its commercial relations, be
placed in the same state, by the repeal of the Or.;
dersin Council, as it stood in, before the adoption
of these measures. Nothing could be more fella-
eious; the situation of the country,.in these.respects,
was attributable, in no small degree, to other causes.
Neither was it the Orders in Council, as erroneous-
ly imagined, that occasioned the increased number
of licenses; (eller circumstaaces rendered it neces-
sary. In what other way could the trade of the
country be carried on ? The exclusion of British
ships from the far greater number of the ports of
Europe, was notorious ; the same obtained, even in
Many p2rts of the Baltic, and in those of Russia.
The export in British bottoms must necessarily be
diminished. He also differed from the Noble Mar-.
quis in his idea, that no adequate or satisfaCtory ac-
counts were to be collected from the generality of -
commercial documents laid before Parliament. The
accounts presented that day afforded much satisfac-
tory illustration: A comparative statement of the
number of ships, and the amount of the tonnage
at different periods, was upon the table. It would
be seen, that its 1806, when the trade of the coun-
try was at an unprecedentedly great extent, the
number of seamen employed was 1133,476. In the ,
year 1810, when an exclusion from the Baltic and
the greater tart of Europe- obtained, the number's
were 210,600, forming an increase of more than
30,000 seamen. He was aware it would• be ob-
jected, this was a statement of repeated voyages,
but it was these that constituted., the real balances,
and not the bare numbers of the ships engaged.—
No slight stress was laid by the Noble Marquis •for
not granting to Americans the.preference of licenses
from this country, inasmuch as it •tended to promote
the inctease of foreign seamen ; but it should be-re-
collected that these foreign seamen were included
among thellenerican crews. He must contend that
tire real-facts of the case by no means bore out the
argument of the Noble Marquis ; and had further
to observe, that an order was issued by those with
whom the Noble Marquis himself acted, for the
encouragement of trade to places actually in the pos-
session of France Recurring to a point he had
alluded to in the early part of his .speech, his .
Lordship glanced at what was conceived to be
a species of immorality with respect to the
granting of licenses. This arose,- and in which
the prejudice • perhaps was painted;from the un-
avoidable wording of thos4 documents, so as -to
make it appear she vessels were destined to some
other polls than those, they really were; but where
(under the unavoidable circumstances of the-case)-
was the immorality of this ? At the lime when the
French Decrees created much alarm in the mercan-
tile world, such measures were suggested as were
deemed most likely to afford the desired facilities to
trade ; and, in oonsequence of the repeated applica-
tions, the Board of Trade, taking into consideration
the state of the commerce of the country, and the
apprehensions then entertained that the Decrees
would be rigidly followed up, it was thought proper
to issue an --order tending to give proteation to ene-
my's property, if such property were destined to this
count ty.—The Board of Trade took into their con-
slderatton the embarrassments of our export trade,
in consequence of the French Decrees, and an alte-
pilots was made in the licenses,- The objectionable •
part of the system - was adopted in the former ad-
ministration, at a time when these Decrees were not
acted on to-the same extent as at present. When
they were, only enforced in a few of the ports of
France, the Governments of that day were so.
alarmed, as to adopt the very suite course which
they now reprehended in their successors. Was it
extraordinary, that under increased difficulties, the
present Ministry should have recourse to the same
means The System upon which they thed was to
reduce France to this 'extremity, either that she
should injure herself by .a rigid adherence to her de-
me-es, or benefit us by any tefaxation in the course
she had marked out for her commercial policy. 'The
Noble Lo'd had entereci into a calculation to prove
the decline of the customs within a certain period,
but the manner in which he proceeded was, after
taking the deficiency of the three last quarters, to
infer that of the succeeding. The whole of this de-
falcation, imaginary as well as real he ascribed to
the Order, in Council, completely overlooking the •
circumstance of the existence of these Orders in the.
year 1809 and 1810, the two years in which our
trade had flourished mast remarkably,• haviog pro-
duced, on a comparison with the average of the four
preceding years, an excess of eight millions. fie
recollected that when, in the year 1810, the Noble

. .
Lola, on the. state of the nation, attributed the
whole of the presperOus condition of our trade at
that time to the Order in. Council of 1809, yet that
same Order in Council, which it was impossible to
Separate from the other, was now represented as the
cause of all our losses. It had been argued that the
Baltic trade was prosperoi:s, to which. the Orders in
Cotincil did not apply ; but that. all parts of our trade
to which they did apply .were unprospernus, and
the-inference was drawn, that the Orders in Council
were the cause of our commerci:d es.---
I'li hoWever, upon investigation would be found
to b, too hastily taken up. After ail that wait said
resp*Ai:ig the immorality produced by the granting
of heetiges, he was not brought over to the opinion;
he s4W nothing in itity hich should induce the mer-'
Chant• to do a dishonlurable ad ; on the contrary,
by granting them, we enabled hitu to do openly
what could otherwise only be attempted by fraud and
perjury the etied of it was therefore to protect the
Briiishmerchant 'from any temptation to those ads
of itnmorality which were charged upon it as conse-
quences. The greater pot tion of the exports to
America were not for the home consumption of the
United States,but were a great p of them for
South America and other parts.. Comparing, then,
the trade of America-and the Indies together, trade
had increased, notwithstanding the inreritiiiiion tv
our commerce. They might rate the trade for the
whole consumption of tie United States at not less

than four rodlions. If they took the three last years
in comparison with the three preceding, they would
find that we had expended more in the last three
.years by ten millions, and our export market to. C-
anada was nearly doubled. The Noble Lord ought
to have recollected that from theist of March 1801
to March tBlO, an embargo had existed on all our
trade, notwithstanding which, it flourished from
the Ist of IVI4, tato to 18 rt . Our trade was open
and yet diminished. Who could say, after looking
to these faas, that our commercial embarrassinews
proceesled from the Orders in Council ? In tsog,
the trade of the Baltic was consideraVe, Which gave
encouragement to our merchants to embaik in the
trade six or seven hundred vessels. The Franch
had by that time entered Stralsund,. and. the vessels
having proceeged from port to port, were for the
greater part captured, making a loss to the country
of eight or nine millions. As far as the trade of the
Baltic went, things were in tbesaine state as if the
Orders in Council had nat existed. After some fur-
ther observations,: in which he*.represented the spe-
culations lo South America as another cause of our
commercial embarrassments; he concluded by de-
claring himself, for all those reasons, against the mo-
tion of the Noble Lord.

Lord HOLLAND begged leave to call the attentioti
of the House to the motion itself, and
.declined go-
ing through all the derails which the Ndble Lo:d
had so clearly and'satisfa&orily stated. He did not
pretend to that knowledge in which the Noble Lad
from his official situation, must be much "more per-
feet; but he would call on the House to recollect
that this motion was for a Committee to inquire
info the Orders in Council, and their effect upon
the trade'of the country. In the first.place,'he would
observe upon what had fallen -front the Noeie Lord
at ,the commencement of his speech, when: he had
imputed tO his Noble Friend (the Marquis of Lans-
downe)that he did not know, to which of the Orders
in Council his Motion referred. It was rather -e-x-
traorditaary that the Noble Lord should pride him- -
self in this manner upon the intricacy of that extra-
ordinary code. His Noble,Friend had called upon
their Lordships to consider the case before them,
wisely abstaining from all topics calculated to create
animosity, or to introduce any passions or feelings
into the debate which should • interrupt ttie proper
exercise of their judgment. To whatever Adtmni- •
stration it was owing, they were now in a situation
in which it was necessary ,to adopt inquiry. He
(Lord H.) thought with his Noble- Friend that that
situation was brought about by the Orders in Coun-
cil, but whether that was the case or not, it was
necessary to inquire into the subject. It was "diffi-
cult in proceeding upon this task, to dismiss Ame-
rica from their minds, when they considered the
tendency these Orders might have to embroil us
with that country, bet it was right that they should
dismiss if, and therefore he should confine himself
to the immediate question. The Older of 1807,
he would allow, (and he was sure his Flonouraele
Friends would agree in the opinion) should be in-
quired into as well as the others, and if found to be
as obnekions, should be repealed. But it had been
said, the Order was made dut ing the administration
of his Noble Friend, as if' the Order of- 1807 was
the foundation of the whole. He remembered, how-
ever, perlealy well, that that order was the subject
of motions from the opposite Side; by whoa it was
contended that more vigorous measures should be
resorted to. And Mr. Perceval himself had actually
thought fit to stigmatize it as being but a common.
wer measure,an&not adopting retaliation with suf.
cieet spirit. It would produce the worst effects,
and degrade the dignity of the House to discuss a
question of this grave and important nature, as if it
was merely nparty topic, and interesting chiefly by
involving the Consistency m inconsistency of a par-
ticular set of men. He was sure that it the Ord'er
of 1807 was thought likely to suspend the inter-
course of thu two countries, it would Trot lave been
brought forward by those then in power; or if, hav-
ing been brought forward, it had produced that ef-
fect, their policy would have induced them to re-
peal it. The fact was, that at that time the Berlin
and Milan Decrees were not passed, and were but
badly nnderstbod ; and great apprehensions being
entertained by the commercial part of the commu-
nity, it was resorted to. It had been said that the
Americans would object to that Order, as much as
any other, in point of right ; but though this might
poSsibly be the case; they would scarcely proceed to
extremities on account of it. As to the immorality
involved in the question, he would not go so.fat,as
,Gentlemen in other places, but at the same time he
could not look upon it in, the light of the Noble'
Lord. The South American trade was a circuitous
one before. What his Noble Friend had said, was
annxiorn in his judgment for the regulation of Foil-
ticians, namely, that we should not endeavoni to
force a trade into the hands of. our enemy which
was carried on by neutrals. When they recollected
the pains which were taken to impress the winds of
tlse people with an idea that America was pusillani-
mous, that she w ould bear any thing for the purpo'e
of preparing them for tfeese. proceedings which hal
since been introduced, i; was impossible not to tea
surprise that those who were so

of neutrals, should have no jealousy of the track_ of
the eneinie It WaS the true policy of this country
tb throw .all the trade she could not ca ry on herself
into the hands. of that power which was most na-
turally 'contrecied with our interests. He objected
to the print !Ede of licenses as connected with the
Oiders in Council ; 11- kne.V Chit at all times
licenses had beeit granted, that it was 'a pre-
rogative of the Crown exercised by—Ministers,
but the operation of them being to abelish
the. 0 dens in Council, they were objec-
tionable on that account. They were 'not mere
relaxstions, bur provisions to defeat the object
for which those Orders were instituted. The mea-
sore they hart taken was only to be justified on the
g!outid of necessity. It a port was blockaded not
tor the purpose of preventing theetiemy, but of pro-
leotieg some objets of their own, .he was sure the
Jude of the Admiralty would decide against such a
blockade. They had no right to convert to another
purpose that which was intended to harass the ene-
my, The Constitution had .certainly lodged the
power in the Crown ; but it had not granted it ea
intuitzt. .Tht. license system carried on to the extent
in which it now eitisted, was liable to enormous
abuse, and she confidence which Ministers might
claim was no way olarguing the constitutional ques-
tion. The* real ground of the motion was the pre-
sent situation of the country.—He knew thati-Mi-
ntsiers coojd produce documents to answer any case,
but lie would look, not to their documents, but to
the country. Why did not the Noble Lord, who
had made so flattering a statement of our condition,
persuade the inhabitants of Liverpool,. Nottingham,
Ew. to its truth ? Why did he not introduce it at
the end of every bankrup: list, for the purpOse of
shewin-g the flourishing state of the country ? He
thotnslit the line
,pursued by the Noble Lord
was ptecisely the one upon which France had
c &Owed and it was precisely the one which was
most favoUrable to her interests. There were two
parties nt America, who took different views of the
interests of their country ; -for he was unwilling to
believe that either was actuated by any other motive
—the one consisting of pe-sons of high respeaa-
.bility, thought tier pol'cy should direCt her to unite
with Great Britain—the other with France. The
consequence of a under such circumstances,
%it oriel be to lose for ever the party which were at-
tached ,e) us, and' to throw all together into the
arms of France. The solitary measure in which he
agreed with ihe Noble Lord, was the war in the
Pen nsula. In his opinion, a war with America
would be the loss of that Peninsula. The great im-
provement in military .tactics, arose from the prin-
ciple of sacrificing all senaller objects to the more
,itoportant. In the same way should the Statesman
`relinquish every petty consideration to tt.c.ise w loch
were 'nue grand and material. Even if all their
pretensions were right, he would have them reflect,
that this was not the time to contend for them, and
:thew the world a proof of their wisdom in their lior
bearer', e.
Lord WESTMOKELAND allowed that it was the in-
terest of the country to avoid war with America,
and maintained that this country had uniformly acted •
with the *most forbearanee. The quarrel, such as
it was, orir;inated with the Noble Lords, and not
with his Majesty's present Government, who of
c urse were not responsible for ihe commercial %var.
fne that had ensued. He went into a history of
the Orders in Council, and maintained that under
them the trade of the country hid prospered greatly.
He had never seen any petitions against the Orders
in Council. All the petitions which he had seen
At ere against the Trade Licenses, that was. against
the relaxation of the Orders in Council. Of this
character was the petition from Hull. He allowed
that a slight impression had bten made on our com-
merce, but experience convinced him that it would
spring up again with renewed vigour. He objthed
to the proposition, because it involved in it princi-
ples desttudive of commerce and of the national
rights and honour.
Lords HOLLAND. and WESTMORLAND explained.
Lord LAUDERDALE defended his NOble Friend
who had brought forward the motion, from the im-
putation of being ignorant of the nature of- the Or-
ders in Council. But even were that imputation
just, could there be a stronger argument against the
continuance of those Orders than that such men as
his Noble Friend could not accurately discover their
import ? He contended that the looseness oltheir
interpretation, and the continual changes to which
they were subject, gave to the Merchants of Lon-
don, who were on the. spot from which they were
issued, a great advantage over the Merchants of the
out-ports. His Noble Friend had been accused of
not knowing what Orders he Would have repealed.
The Order of the 7th of January, 1807, was un-
questionably one which -he would not have repeal-
ed. 'He denied that the subsequent orders were an
extension of that order; they proceeded on a dif-
terent princ.ple. In answer in what a Noble Lord
bad been pleased to assert, he expressed his convic-
tion that had his Noble Friends felt that any incon-
Nenience resulted front the order of 1867, they,
would not have hesitated to proceed to the repeal
'of that Order. In neither of the speeches of the
Noble Earls opposite_ was there a single sentence
addressed to the proposition that , there be a Com-
mittee appointed. The prOTerity of the commerce,
-of the country had been talked of. Prosperity
It was a prosperity accompanied by numberless phe-
nomena. It was accompanied by an unprecedented.
list of bankrupts. It was accompanied by an unpre
cedented distress among the manufacturers. It Was
accompanied by an unprecedented change in the.
wages of. the lower orders. Into. these phe-
nomena, attendant on the alleged prosperity
of commerce, it was fitting, in his opinion,
that a Committee should inquire. Had the
Noble Earl -read the memotial from the merchants
of Hull? If so, he was astonished that the Noble
Eirl could reject the motion of his Noble Friend.—
.
With respect to the returns on the table, of exports
and imports, they were in no wise to be depended
.upon. Circumstances of a peculiar, and indeed of a
-contradictory, nature, had conspired to swell them.
In the exports, for instance, all goods exported
-without duty, might be entered to arty amount.—
Thus, an export of only 501. in value, might be en-
tered as worth sOOOl. Added to this, commercial
speculation had proceeded to such an extent that it
was a well-known fact, that goods to a consideratile
amount had been transported from this country, par-