The Sun.
London, England, 1847-01-23 00:00:00

..., ftR Y 23, 1847.

it hitt Xifttton

SUN OFFICE, Seven o' Clod

ROLLS' COURT.-(THIS DAY.)

COLEMAN V. THE EASTERN COUNTIES RAILWAY COMPANY.

An injunction had been obtained in this case by the plain-
tiff under these circumstances :—The plaintiff was a pro-
prietor in the Eastern Counties Railway, and the directors of
that company were desirous of constructing a railway from
one of their termini to Harwich, and by that means obtain-
ing a communication with the sea, and thence with several
important sea- ports on the coast of France, Holland, 84c. The
plaintiff refused to embark in the undertaking, it being
alleged by the defendants that he was induced to oppose it,
because he was a proprietor in another steam-packet, which
the proposed railway would seriously injure.
An application was made to-day, on the part of the de-
fendants, to alter the form of the injunction, which his Lord-
ship refused to do.

IN RE PENDEN.
There were two petitions in this case, the first for
the confirmation of the Master's report, and the latter to im-
pugn the finding of the Master in reference to seine items
in a bill which he had disallowed. The parties were soli-
citor and client, and the accounts bad reference to profes-
sional services rendered by the former, the charges for which
the Master considered exorbitant.

Mr. Turner and Mr. James appeared for the appellant;
whose case was not concluded till the rising of the Court.

QUEEN'S BENCH.-(T HIS DAY.)
The whole of the day was occupied in hearing argu-
ments and authorities on a demurrer out of the Crown paper,
which had no public interest.

of every circumstance attending the numerous and
still increasing difficulties with which the Government
had to contend, in consequence of the unexpectel and
unexampled scarcity of fcod in Ireland. Those papers,
he hoped, would be ready to be laid upon their Lord-
ships' table within a few days after he had moved for
them. He did not wish, in answer to further ques-
Vons from his Lordship, to make any further statement
as to the course which her Majesty's Government in-
tended4to adopt towards Ireland until some of the Bills
which had been proposed by the Government were
brought up from the other House. If Noble Lords
wished to take any discussion upon that subject before
the introduction of those Bills, they would of course be
competent to do so. In a short time one or two Bills
on the subject, to which no objection was likely to be
taken, would, he had no doubt, be laid upon their Lord-
ships' table, with; reference to the: advances! of consi-
derable sums of public money towards the relief of the
distress in Ireland.

Lord BROUGHAM said a permanent- alteration in
the colonial and agricultural policy of the country was
almost as serious a matter us suspending the Habeas
Corpus Act, and he very much doubted whether they
ought hurriedly to agree to some of those measures which
had been so speedily passed in the other House of Parlia-
ment. No doubt, the corn and navigation• laws ought,
under existing circumstances, to ba suspended for a given
period; but, us to the other measure, which was in-
tended to be made permament, he was not inclined to
give a ready aesent to that. On Monday, however, he
should have a better opportunity of going into the question.
But it should be remembered that that measure was not
a permanent measure, either with respect to the colonial
population or the slave population. He trusted their
Lordships would not allow any consideration to pre-
vent them from taking measures for alleviating the
distress in Ireland, but they should recollect, at the same
time, that they had last session passed a very important
measure, which had not yet come into full operation.
That measure was calculated to lower the price
of sugar, and he believed would' exercise a very
sensible effect upon it. The price of sugar at
present was found to be much lower. He thought that
had the measure only been introduced as a tempo•
rary measure there would have been no opposition
about it. They had introduced two measures, viz., one
for a temporary measure,:and the other with a permanent
object. The Noble Lord had also stated that he was
about to introduee some money Bills. Now the House
had no power whatever to interfere with money Bills,
except one—except that of throwing them out alto-
gether. His Noble Friend also spoke of the delay
of the remedial measures for Ireland. They
were now at the 23d of January, and if they
had met on the 23d of November, two months
would have been saved, and much distress would have
been prevented. There was another question which be
wished to put on the present occasion, as it might bring
up much discussion. That question was relative
to the Bill which was to be brought up from the
other House of Parliament upon the poor-
law. It appeared that the pressure from without had
had its usual effect. A number of persons out of doors
bad raised an unscrupulous and busy agitation,
at ;the success of which they, no doubt, were
sufficiently rejoiced. It was got up partly from
personal spleen and partly for political objects.
It was stated by these people that the poor-law was for
the benefit of the landlords, but their Lordships would
recollect that when this measure was passed, the express
object of their Lordships was, as he believed, to benefit
the poor and not to benefit the rich.—(Hear, hear.)
He hoped that the Bill would be introduced in a manner
which would ensure for it the most deliberate considera-
tion, and that no part, not an inch of that corner-stone
of the system—the centre authority, should be inter-
fered with without the greatest circumspection and the
most mature consideration. He would have preferred
on this account that the measure had been introduced
into this, rather than the other House of Parliament.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE concurred with the
Noble Lord that no subject of greater importance could
come under their consideration, or more required the
attention of their Lordships. He could not,
however, allow the statement of the Noble
Lord :to pass unnoticed. It was not intended
to interfere with the system in the manner
stated by the Noble Lord. It was not intended to do
away with the central authority, or to make any other
changes which were not required by the circumstances
of the country.
Lord BROUGHAM did not hear any reason why the
Poor-law Bill should not be introduced into that House,
as he was persuided it would be much more deliberately
and calmly discussed than if it were first brought into
the other House of Parliament.

Earl FITZWILLIAM was, with the Noble and
Learned Lord (Lord Brougham), very much afraid that
the Bill would not be so well considered than if it were
first brought into their Lordships' House. But he
rose to express his satisfaction at what he had heard
from his Noble Friend, that the Government did
not intend materially to interfere with the mode of
administering the law.—(Hear, hear.) He was certain
from his experience as a guardian, since the passing of
the law, that it was absolutely necessary to have central
superintendence, though, at the same time, he did not
think there should be constant central intereference.
Whether there should be, in the administration of the
poor-law, a Minister who might be perhaps made more
responsible to Parliament by being in Parliament, than
one who was not, on that point he would not give an
opinion, but he was quite sure that if a Minister of that
kind were introduced on that board, that he
ought to be there merely for the purpose of being
questioned in Parliament, and that he ought not to be
there for the purpose of superintending the administra-
tion of the poor-law. That would be most mischievous,
and he trusted that no pressure from without, nor any
desire of conciliating party in the other House, would
make the Government flinch from the principle Aluit the:
real superintendence ought to be in4he- ;of Ahem-
persons who were not liable to change, with the change
of the day- •
Lord BROUGIIAM rose to move that two resolu-
tions, agreed to by the House on the 3d of July, 1845,
relative4o Railways And Priiate Bills, be taken into con-
sideration, in order to- their being made standing orders.
The reinfutions were then agreed to, and their Lard
ships adjourned.

SMALL DEBTS COURTS ACT.
APPOINTMENTS OF JUDGES.
(From the Birminyliam Journal of this day.)
Our readers throughout the Midland Counties, and to
the limits of our circulation in the northern towns of
Lancashire and Yorkshire, are anxiously expecting the
long promised official announcement of the Lord Chau-
cellor's selection of the District Judges.
We believe that we are correctly informed, when we
state that Mr. Leigh Trafford, of Cheshire, and Judge
of the Warrington Court of Requests, has been offered
and accepted the District Court of Birmingham. The
Learned Gentleman is a barrister of standing and judi-
cial experience.
The clerkship of our local district cannot have been
yet determined, and does not rest exclusively on the
new Judge. The circular letter of the Lord Chancellor
to the judges already appointed, in offering the judge-
ship, states as follows:
" The Lord Chancellor, in making this offer, wishes you to
understand, that in case of your acceptance of o.iice, you
must consider yourself liable to undertake any further duties
that Parliament may think it expedient to impose upon you.
his Lordship would also suggest to you the propriety of con-
sidering whether there are any professional gentlemen who
have claims to the appointment of clerk, arising from their
holding any office connected with any court iuyour circuit, and
would be obliged to you to submit their names for his approba-
tion, with any remarks you may think it advisable to make. I
should, at the same time, state that his Lordship is at pre-
sent inclined to think, that, as far as is consistent with the
claims of those whose interests are recognised by the Act,
there should be one principal Clerk to superintend the busi-
ness of the whole Circuit, with au office in each town where
a Court is appointed to be held."
We hear that in Westminster Hall, yesterday, the
following appointments have been already made—more
or less of interest to our readers, and to the adjoiniev
counties where our paper circular,.
North Lancashire
South-West Lancashire
Liverpool
Manchester
Bradford C. 11. Elsley.
Sheffield W. Walk tr.
Leeds
York
Lincolnshire
Leicester and Rutland .
Nottingkam
Derbyshire
Bath and Wells — Smith.
Bristol
We have heard of no certain appointments for the
Warwickshire district (excluding Birmingham), nor
who will be the fortunate Judge of the Dudley, Wolver-
hampton, and Iron districts, and we do not think that
they are definitely settled.
We hear that great paise is given to the Lord
Chancellor for those selections hitherto made, and
that he has not allowed mere political considerations
to fix the country with unnecessary compensations.
to retired or displaced Judges of the old Courts. Mr.
Starkie, Queen's Counsel, and Mr. Amos, are the
Judges at present appointed in the London metropolitan
districts.
No treasurers aro yet appointed, and their districts
will be larger considerably, than those of the Judges,
probably note ceding twenty in number.
Our readers will be glad to learn that our fellow;
townsman, Mr. t
J. Gale, is selected as judge of h
district comprising Hants and the Isle of Wight.

EXTREME DISTRESS.—Amongst the persons who bench of Magistrages
were summoned before the Windsor
on Thursday last, for non-payinerit o
poor woman, who was unableappear before the Bench
pours'-rates, was a
in consequence of being compelled to ap
led to pawn her clothes from
sheerdistress.
LOVE AND SUICIDE.—A most melancholy occur-
rence took place yesterday morning, at the Cock and Mag-
pie, Worship-street,
.Finsbury.‘ One of the barmaids at the
Eliza I Eli
above house, named ,earon, ago about twenty years,
and who has been for some years in the employ of the pro-
prietor,
was it appears on the point of being married to one
of the police force, but who she had reason to believe, from
sonic communication she had received, was likely to prove
false-hearted, and although she had endeavoured within these
last few days to bear up, and present a more than usually
gay appearance, yet she yesterday appeared to have sunk
under her affliction. She rose at the usual hour, and at-
tended to business, complaining, however, of being unwell ;
and, after having breakfasted, retired to her chamber to rest.
Shortly after ten o'clock another barmaid (Mary Jones),
who slept with deceased, went up stairs to learn if she was
better ; she, finding the door fastened, called a man-servant,
who forced the door, when deceased was found suspended by
a very small cord to one of the bed-posts, and quite dead
She was remarkably pretty in features •, and her figure,
though petite, was elegant ; but she was chiefly admired for
i her excellent temper and gruiable maluicrs.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Jan. 22.
NAVIGATION LAWS.

Lord G. BENTINCK was not disposed to press the
amendment, because he was quite sure the Government
would do what was right. In his opinion it mattered
little whether the navigation laws were suspended at this
period or not. He thought an erroneous impression had
got abroad, that they had lost opportunities of importing
considerable quantities of corn from the United States of
America, from the existence of the navigation laws and the
4s. duty, and that in this respect France had recently
had considerably the advantage over England. Now
this impression was certainly not borne out by the im-
portation returns of the United States of America from
the Ist of Sept. lent till the 22d of Dec. The returns re-
lated to the ports of New York, New Orleans and Bos•
ton. Now the importations of corn from these ports to
France during the period he had named were 65,000
quarters of every description, while those to Great
Britain and Ireland amounted to no less than
526,000 quarters. He thought from that state-
ment the House nod the country would see
that Ministers had committed no great ctiine against
the people of Ireland in not having exhibited
greater haste to suspend these laws.—(Hear, hear.)
lie believed neither the navigation nc.r the corn laws
had anything to do with the expor; sof grain to France and
Great Britain. Respecting the supply of corn for France
from Odessa, a very high authority among the political
economists, the Economist newspaper said great ad-
vantages had been bestowed on France through
the operation of the navigation laws ; and that no less
than fifteen ships belonging to foreign nations, princi-
pally Neapolitan and Greek, were loading there
with cargoes of corn for Marseilles. The infor-
mation of the Economist on this subject, he
believed to be incorrect, as it appears the
names of some of the ships which were given,
were the Barbeck, the Ilydriot, the Cleope, the Newton,
the Maria Theresa, and the Fire Fly ; and the last in
the list was the Dicky Sand—(Laughter)—mimes that
would indicate the vessels were more likely load-
ing for England than France.— (Cries of " Hear, hear.")
If he might be allowed to throw out a suggestion to the
Noble Lord, it was to extend the same principle to
British as to foreign vessels, as by this short Aet British
ships would be left under a disadvantage, being
obliged to have three-fourths of their crew
British sailors. There were other restrictions that
should be removed. British shipowners complained that,
in competing with foreign shipowners, they were obliged
to take a certain number of apprentices. He would
suggest to his Noble Friend to take these matters into his
serious consideration, to place British shipowners on an
equal footing with foreign shipowners, and to suspend
all laws that operated to produce a difference as far as
it was possible for him to do so.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. DUNCAN considered that it would be impos-
sible that aoy vessel loading in the Black Sea in June
or July could reach this country in time to avoid the
infraction of the law; and merchants and shippers,
knowing the risk, would not adventure their capital.
Mr. MOFFATT thought that no harm would result
from the following out the suggestion of the Hon.
Member for Bridport.
Mr. EWART disclaimed the doctrime propounded
by the Hon. Member for Bath, that they should leave
the matter in the hands of the Government. Some means
should be adopted to allow the entrance of ships which
had taken in their cargoes before a certain fixed period.
Mr. MITCHELL wished to say a few words in
answer to some observations which fell from the Right
Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The
Right Hon. Gentleman reckoned the voyage from
Odessa at two months, under ordinary circumstances.
He (Mr. Mitchell) was aware that it was a three-and-a•
half months voyage. He had not heard any satisfactory
argument against the course which he had proposed.
Mr. BROTHERTON thought the proposition (of
the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Bridport a
very reasonable one, and the principle it involved was
a fair one as it regarded these foreign arrivals.
Mr. COLLETT—One additional reason for agreeing
to the amendment would be that vessels arriving after the
day would be liable to a duty of four shillings. .
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment
Against it
_ _ _

Majority
The remaining clauses were then agreed to, the
House resumed, and the Bill went through its remaining
stages.

SUPPLY.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EX-
CHEQUER, the House then resolved, itself into a Com-
mittee of Supply po forma, and a resolution was agreed
to, granting supplies tor the use of her Majesty.
The report was ordered to be brought up on Monday
next.

THE QUEEN'S SPEECH.-SUGAR, MOLASSES,

AND RUM.

On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EX-
CIIEQUER, the House resolved itself into Committee to
consider the recommendations in her Majesty's Speech
with respect to temporarily suspending the penalties im-
posed on those using sugar and molasses in their
breweries and distilleries.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then
rose to bring forward the propositions of the Govern-
ment. He said he proposed now to state the.. measure
which her Majesty's Government had resolved to submit
to a Committee of the whole House with reference
to sugar, molasses, and rum. The House last night
and the preceding night seemed to entertain some
misapprehension as to the exact recommendations
in the Queen's Speech. Ile certainly thought
that no misapprehension could have existed in the
minds of Hon. iticentiers with respect to these recom-
mendations, eApccially • those having reference to the
temporary suspension of the corn and navigation laws
as the reposl of the duties on the corn-laws, after a limited
period, received the sanction of the House last session.
file navigation laws were those to which the greatest im-
portance attached, as, except under no ordinary circum-
stances, could a suspension of those Jaws take place with
safety. A similar remark might apply, with equal force
with respect to the measure which he was now about
to propose to the House ; but Hon. Gentlemen would
recollect what took place at the close of last session—
that the Government considered that further reductions
ought to be made.—(Hear, hear.) He, therefore, rose
in pursuance of the intentions entertained by her
Majesty's Government at the close of the last
session, for the express purpose of proposing a
further reduction of those duties which they considered,
at that period, ought to be modified.—(Cheers.) Mea-
sures of consider able importance were passed at the
close of last session, reducing much of the protection
which the West and East Indies had previously
enjoyed against foreign competition—a course, the
adoption of which, he thought, was calculated
to produce the greatest advantage to this country.
A reduction had been made in the duty on molasses,
rum, and sugar, of from Is. 6d. to Is. In making
these reductions consideration was had not only
to the public benefit, but also to the revenue. It
was with a view to this point that measures bad
been proposed last session. No one was- more
fully alive to the advantages of what were called
the doctrines of free trade, but it was impossible to
apply it fully to all the different circumstances
that might arise. The produce from the Customs was
a million and a half. It was impossible to raise a con-
siderable portion of this without indirect taxation. It
might be in the recollection of Hon. Gentlemen,
in the statement that had been made on the sugar
duties, that the prospects for the ensuing year were not
very favourable. It was calculated that there would
be a deficiency of between 300,000/. and 400,0004
Now, up to the present time the increase in the reve-
nue exceeded the most sanguine expectations. 'L'
balance sheet showed a considerable increase in
regard to the Customs duties there was
every article, except in those the .3-" es on which were
1
remitted last session. The-- ^es a
considerable increase
on sugar and ^—
ne was of opinion the present state
c
oe ...euntry was not such net they could not expect
the revenue to be much improved. The great want of
food, the high price to which it advanced, and the con-
sequent effects upon the population, should make all con-
siderations in regard to revenue to be put aside. It afforded
the Government, therefore, considerable satisfaction
to know that they had done all in their power to reduce
the price of corn, and to relieve this great pressure on
the people. In like manner the produce of the Excise
was considerable in this country up to the 10th of
October last. The increase also in Ireland was con-
siderable, and the excess in that country was such as to
exceed what was considered the greatest powers of
consumption which it possessed. Since the 10th of
October, however, there had been a great change. The
Excise had fallen off considerably, and one might take
that as a forerunner of what might be shortly expected
in this country and in Scotland. The price of every
commodity was very high, and no other opinion
could be formed, but that this must have an
injurious effect upon the revenue of the country.
He did not anticipate that this commercial activity would
be likely to continue so long as to ensure the revenue
which had been already obtained. Under those ear:v..43
stances no Government could possiblynksy
against the deficiency whichsunwsasarise as his
to
did not think
occur, nor could the sam3. reHe
Noble Friend had upon those results in
justified ipnrecadel;elatisunbgmitted to the House,
he
or shouldeameasures
rb
or that in consideration of the revenue he should suffer'
ees which had been
these duties to be abolished. He would now turn
to the measures which he intended to propose, and
the first subject was the request which had been
made by the brewers for sugar and molasses to
be used in breweries as well as in distilleries.
According to the present state of the law the use of
sugar and molasses was not prohibited, although there
• was some difficulty in adopting it as a substitute for malt.
In the measures which he proposed to submit to the
House he was quite ready to allow the substitution
of sugar in breweries, for it mattered little
to the revenue which of' the two substances was em-
ployed. The duty on a quarter of malt was 21s. Bd.,
which quantity was considered equivalent to 1081bs.
of sugar, the duty upon which was 225. 6d.
He did not believe that sugar would displace
malt, because it would never be the interest of
the brewer to dispense with the use of malt, and
unless the price of malt rose to an extravagant
height, it was impossible that its consumption could
decrease to any considerable degree. A large quantity
of sugar, no doubt, would be used in breweries to mix
with the liquor produced from malt, and hence the opera-
tions of the brewer would be much facilitated, and
very likely extended. This must naturally lead to a
reduction in price, increased consumption, and thus tend
to prove to the interest and increase the trade of the
grower of barley. Within the last few weeks the price
of barley had risen to a great extent, and the re-
sult was brewers suspended their malt opera-
tions, but shortly afterwards the price of beer
lk was Rind one penny per pot, and this enabled

the brewers to resume their consumption of malt.
If it had been admissible to use plain sugar in breweries,
considering the present high price of malt, there would
not have been any necessity to raise the price of beer, a
circumstance which was to be regretted in an
article which vas so extensively used by the
labouring classes. Even in ordinary times, the
measure, he was persuaded, would prove of great
benefit to all parts of the United Kingdom. In the
present state of the country, and the high price
of malt, he believed that had the use of sugar
been allowed, the increase in the price of beer
would not have taken place. Recently the price
of malt was 84s. per quarter, it had risen to 883., and
he was informed last night by a friend that it had risen
as high as 90s. Taking it, however, only at 84s, the
price of sugar was 47-. per cwt. Nsw 1801bs. of sugar,
at 475. per cwt., cost 75a. 6d., and will produce a quantity
of beer equal to that yielded by a quarter of malt; so by
the substitution one advantage would be gained, equal to
the extent of Cs. upon every barrel of strong beer. At
the present moment, therefore, the effect of the mea-
sure would be to have a considerable quantity of sugar to
be used in breweries and distilleries, and the tendency
would be to reduce the price of beer and to increase its
consumption by the people. It was not his be-
lief that there would be, in ordinary times, if this
measure was permanent, a competition between
sugar and malt. If they took 625. a quarter, the price
of malt in ordinary years, there could not be a successful
competition between that article and sugar, unless the
' latter was 355. per cwt. He was fully persuaded
that while the measure would have a tendency at the
present time of liberating a considerable amount of
grain for malting., cheapen an essential article
of consumption, it would exercise no injurious
influence on the growers of barley.—(Hear, hear.) It
was his intention, therefore, to introduce a proposition
that brewers should be allowed to use duty paid sugar
in brewing. With regard to molasses, he was not pre-
pared to make the same- concession as in the case of
duty-paid sugar. He found that all the Acts which had
passed upon this subject prohibited the use of molasses,
and although sugars had been permitted to be
used in the process of brewing, the duty on molasses
was at present ss. 3d., and it was generally as
sumed that 2521b5. of molasses was equal to
a quarter of barley. Assuming, therefore, that 252 lbs.
of molasses was equal to a quarter of malt, they would
require to impose a duty of 9s. Bd. instead of ss. 3d.
It was very easy to say they did not know which article
ought to be allowed to the brewers, for there were
various articles which the brewers were prohibited
from having, but they allowed them to have a
certain quantity of molasses. It would be very
difficult to distinguish between that which they had
allowed to them and that which had not paid the Excise
duty. It would be indispensably necessary, in order to
protect the interest of the revenue, to establish those
minute surveys of brewers' stock which had been discon-
tinued for so long a time, but it was not necessary that
any regular survey should take place in order to prevent
this evil, as it would certainly cause a great loss to the
brewers. Therefore he did not think it would be a boon
of any great value to the West India sugar manufac-
turers. It must also be observed, that the process of
the manufacture of sugar was daily improving, and the
consequence of that improvement was a diminution in
the quantity of molasses; and also the greater quantity
of rum that was predueed the less the quantity of mo-
lasses, and therefore greater facility would be given to the
'West India planters by the introduction of rum and sugar.
He then came to the question of distilleries. By the
law at present sugar might be used in distilleries,
at least it was lawful for any distiller to give notice
that he intended to distil from sugar, but it was
incumbent upon him that some time should elapse
between his distillation from sugar and from grain. He
could not use them nor distil from both at the
same time. It was necessary to make this arrangement
for the sake of the revenue, as, with a due regard
to its interests, it was impossible to allow corn and sugar
to be used together in distilleries. He believed that ha
should command the assent of every gentleman in that
Nouse, when he said that spirit was an article on which
it l'eas fair to raise the maximum amount of duty. No
one was anxious to extend the consumption of spirits,
and t;te only risk in raising the duty was the
risk of incurring illicit distillation. In this country,
the present duty being 7s. 10d , illegal distillation was
barely kept down, but in Ireland it was impossible to
maintain a high duty, in consequence of the many
facilities for defrauding the revenue. Various attempts
had been made to obtain a larger amount of revenue
than that which was obtained at present; they had, how-
ever, failed, and the present result had been found, after
considerable experience, to be as high as consistent with-
out encouragissg illicit distillation. And, therefore,
considering the vast amount of money which accrued
to the revenue from the duty on distillation,
Gentlemen would see that it was of essential importance
„that they should not suffer it to be diminished.
(Hear, hear.) There were three periods in the process
of distillation, in which the spirit was raised in price
and it was in the option of the revenue to choose
which obey preferred, and which would be most
favourable to the revenue. One of those tests was
entirely lost by the process of the distillation of sugar.
Thus the officers would be reduced to two tests, and it
was their opinion, as far as their experience went, that
it would not be safe, considering the interests
of the revenue, to allow both sugar and corn to be dis-
tilled together. But this was not all; it was the opinion.
of some of the most extensive distillers in this country,
that molasses and sugar could not be profitably worked
together, or, in other words, that they should be kept
separate. Mr. Smith, in his evidence, said that he
thought that molasses or grain could not be
fermented with advantage together, as it would occa-
sion an absolute loss by perfect fermentation.
Other evidence to the same effect was read by the Right
Honourable Baronet the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
the purport of which was that they did not think it
would be advantageous to use corn and
molasses together. The Right Honourable Baronet
went on to say that they never did so when they had
the power, and they never would ; he did not think
therefore that any real advantage could result from a
provision for the use of molasses with corn. The real
objection to the use of molasses and sugar in distilleries
was the large amount of duty levied upon them
before they could be used. That objection he pro-
posed by the present measure to remove, and practically
lee proposed to allow the use of sugar duty tree
for distillation ; practically so, at least, except to this
extent. Ile would levy an amount of duty from the
spirit equivalent to that at present levied upon malt.
In England the distillation of spirits was effected
from a mixture of various sorts of grain, in these
proportions—two parts of malt, two parts of hops, and
embteen parts of barley; or to make that appear clear to
the House he would give them these quantities, 2 quarters
of oats, 2 quarters of malt, and 18 quarters of barley ;
that would be a mixture of grain stilted for the purposes
of distillation. Now, it was evident that the duty
had to be levied in two different ways—first, it was
levied upon the spirit, the produce of that distillation,
and it was also levied upon the malt from which
the spirit was produced. What he proposed to
do was this —that a certain rate of duty should
be levied upon spirits, the produce of sugar or
molasses, equivalent to the duty at present levied
upon spirits the produce of malt and grain, together
with the duty at present payable upon malt.
The mode in which ho proposed to effect this—and he
believed it was tree from objection—Was this : that the
dist:ller should take his sugar from the ware• I
house upon paying the duty; that he should use it for the
purpose' of distillation, and that when he came to pay the
spirit duty, he should have an allowance from
that spirit duty equivalent to the difference be
tween the duty which he had paid upon the sugar
so taken from the warehouse, and that which he would
,have been called upon to pay upon malt. Now that, ac-
cording to the calculation usually adopted in previous
Acts, is Is. is-i. per cwt. upon sugar, which was equiva-
lent to the duty paid upon malt used id distilleries.
Consequently, he would here an allowance or drawback
of 12s. 10d. on the quantity of spirit which was calcu-
lated to be produced from one hundred welght
of sugar, which would leave that spirit in this
situation—that it would be relie-ved from all the duty
paid upon sugar, and would have paid a duty equivalent
to that which would have been paid upon malt. The
distinction between the duties upon beer and
spirits Wkii this—that the duty was levied on
the raw material in the case of beer, but in the
case of spirits the very reverse was the fact ; so that
in the case of malt esequired for the brewing of beer,'
a larger amount of receaue than on spirits was pro-
duced to the Exchequer, which, if not imposed
on the raw material, would be lost. Eleven and a half
gallons of spirit were produced from eight cwt. of sugar,
and, therefore, 12s. 10d. would be deducted from the
spirit duty payable on that quantity. This might tele
some little time to explain ; but he trusted he rusde
his statement perfectly clear.—(Hear, hear.) The
result was simply this, that a drawback of 12s. 10d.
would be allowed on every Ile} gallons. All sugars, with
the exception of Muscovado, wich paid a duty of 145.,
would have paid a differential duty on their importation;
therefore our colonies would enjoy, so long as the
present low duty continued, an advantage over
foreign possessions which produced sugar. He did
not think it necessary to go into detail. The pre
sent price of barley was stated in one of the
Priers Currents to be 54e., but he believed that was
below the present rate, which was as high as 635., but
be took it at 545, and sugar at 335.,
which was the present price, and would, therefore,
compete successfully with barley if it continued
at the
price at which it was a week ago.
But looking back at a series of years, and considering
that when rum was at a price of 305., sugar was then
tie low as I,s. and •
nd he did not think there would
be tea slightest om petition between barley and
sugar. When therebarley, or
a rise in sugar, and a
eysce ofora rise in the price of
barley, and a fan ie the price
He believed ugar; there could be
no competition. • thatgreat that
the advantages of
distilling from corn was lulteor
lizol,ah:t it could not be
,setteerourld be much
considered, that either sugar
e ohre, that to
interfered with. He did not think-
distil from molasses would supersede
and whatever smalll'adeeV-iresent.
tages,
systems of distillation,
might appear to result, he did not think that it
sufficient importance to warrant a distinct provision
molasses. He now came to the duty on rum r ther
duty upon Colonial rum last year was 9s. 6d.
Massy attempts, at any rate more than one attempt was
made to reduce the assiount of that differential duty, but
they were always resisted by the distillers and others
who considered their interests would be injured by the
tes action. Last sesSioil of Parliament he felt satisfied
i
d ws ch
that the arrangement illen ma
ought to have met the wis.be, asu as
l parti _es of ales.
He considered that it was such as to ase,;,' the wishes of
both parties, in this country and the West Indies. But.he"1
rolod that the remission was not such as to gA;:
tiainetion to the distillers of the West Indies.
TheLge representations were made in the strongest terms,
and the' remission they asked was ls. 40. Lie Mielfid

that under all the circumstances, the probable claim had
been made out for 9d. or 10d.; but the Chancellor of the
Exchequer of that period had not thought it ad-
visable, from the state of the revenue, to grant
the remission, and he should, lie believed, meet the jus-
tice of tee case by making the differential duty Is. and
6d. This would give a difference of 6d. to the
foreign produce. The House was aware that the
duty was the same in the three countries of
England, Ireland, and Scotland. A :«vour was
shown to Ireland and Scotland, and rum bore a less
duty in those two parts of the United Kingdom, than
when introduced into England. In England the duty
was 7s. 103., in Scotland 3s. Bd., and in Ireland, 2s. Bd.
He proposed to equalise the duty.—(Hear, hear.)
A paper had recently been laid before ilon Members,
Which would afford them every information upon the
subject, and if they would just take the trouble to re fer
to the 48th page of that paper they would find an account
of the ruin consumed in Scotland. In Scotland the
amount had been reduced from 43,000 gallons tosome few
7,000 or 8,000, while in Ireland, from the commencement
of the present century down to the present day the con-
sumption had fallen off from 1,000,000 gallons to only
some 12,000. He thought this sufficiently made out
a case for the reductions he was about to propose. Now
he proposed that rum should be suffered to be imported
into Scotland at a duty of 4s. 2d., and into Ireland at a
duty of 2s. 2d. ; but he also proposed that some differ-
entia should be made in the duties on spirits dis-
tilled in these countries, and rum made in England.
His impression was that the effect of these alterations
would be that the consumption of rum would be in-
creased in the sea-port towns. He believed that the in-
troduction of a good wholesome spirit,would prevent the
manufacture of a spurious article. This introduction of
a sound spirit would benefit both the producer and the
consumer. No doubt grave objections might b: urged
against the inequality of the Custom duty as levied in
different parts of the empire. Rum might be, for in-
stance bonded in an excise warehouse in Glasgow, and
transmitted to any public warehouse in England by sea,
but only by sea. These regulations he hoped would
prevent smuggling, while at the same time he appre-
hended that the excise revenue would not suffer. On
the whole, he did hope that this would be considered
by the parties interested as a fair settlement of the
question. He did not believe that he should gain or
loose upon the balance of his proposition. 60,0001. was
the amount be calculated he should loose on the reduc-
tion on the price of rum last year ; but the importation
of rum during the last five months so increased that the
duty was more than made up, and therefore he was con-
vinced that the revenue would not be injured by the
measures he had proposed. The price of sugar
had been lower last year than during the preced-
ing one, and there was an increased import-
ation of rum, during the thirteen months _ end-
ing the .sth December, 1845. was 655,000 gallons,
and during a similar period, in 1846, it seas 789,000 gal-
lons, making an increased consumption of 134,000 gal-
lens. This, of course, made up for the reduction of the
duty on spirit, and he was sanguine enough to believe,
that any further reduction in the price of spirit would
greatly increase the consumption in Scotland and Ire-
land, especially in the seaport towns, the inhabitants
of which were principally in the habit of consuming rum.
But in point of fact the distillation of grain was almost
completely stopped in Ireland. He held in his hand a
leaer from un Irish distiller, dated the 14th of January,
which stated that by far the greater portion of barley
which would be used would be foreign. Never-
theless, in the present state of circumstances there
were additional reasons for the passing of these mea-
sures, and he hoped that the House would do so with as
little delay as was consistent with a due consideration
of them. (The Right Hon. Gentleman was almost in-
audible in the gallery, from the commencement to the
end of his speech, so much so as to be repeatedly uuin •
telligible.)
Lord G. BENTINCK said that the great mastery which
his Han. Friend had displayed over his subject, and the clear
and lucid manner in which he explained it, dill not leave it in
the power of any one to say that he could not understand it.
The proposal of her Majesty's Ministers did not meet
with the usual objections which he had so often
stated to the House, namely, against the remission of taxes
paid by foreign produce, in detriment to the British grower.
There was another reason why he had not any great objection
to passing the present measure, as, according to the statement
of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, its tendency would be
rather to increase than diminish the revenue. While they had
heard a gloomy statement respecting one branch of tha
revenue, and considering the state of Ireland, it was some
consolation to those friends with whom he acted, that those
articles with which political economy or free-trade doctrines
had not meddled, such as tea and tobacco, had yielded an
increased revenue, which, had they trusted to the
duty on the articles allowed by the free-trade tariff,
the Chancellor of the Exchequer would have come before them
a bankrupt.—(Hear, hear.) He tLord George Bentinck)
had said he was not then prepared to follow the Right Hon.
Gentleman through all his details, and his friends (the Pro-
tectionists) wished more time to consider the measure. His
object, therefore, in rising was to beseech the Right Hon.
Gentleman to pass it as a temporary rather than as a perma-
nent measure. His (Lord George Bentinck's) friends had
every desire to support the Government in every measure re-
garding Ireland, and though they might have some doubts as
to the principle in the propositions for this purpose, they
intended to throw no obstacles whatever in their
way.—(Hear.) He trusted, therefore, that the Noble Lord
(Lord John Russell) would, without prejudicing the policy
which the Government might hereafter think proper to adopt,
consent to pass the measure as a temporary one, and at a later
period of the session, when the affairs of Ireland were settled,
come before the House and propose whatever for a permanent
purpose they might think most advisable. His (Lord George
Bentinck's) Right Hon. Friend, in speaking of the present
high rate of malt, stated that orEt great brewer had suspended
operations. If this were correct the effect of the
high price twas to diminish the consumption of
barley, so that he could not see how the tendency
of the present system would be to create a large consumption
of grain for beer which might be used for food.—( Hear, hear.)
The present malt tax was one which did not fall entirely on
the consumer, as had been alleged by the Chancellor of the
Exchequer. It was equally divided—one portion of it was
borne by the consumer, the other by the grower of barley.—
(Hear, hear.) The operation of the measure now proposed
in allowing sugar to enter into competition with barley in
breweries and distilleries, would add one to the many other
claims which the agricultural interest had before the Govern-
ment for the remission of the duty on malt and hops. The Right
Hon. Gentleman had told them that the present high price of
malt had added a penny to the price of each pot of beer. If
the Government would take the duty off malt, he ( Lord Geo.
Bentinck) was persuaded that not only would beer and ale be
brought hack to their old price, but would be sold for a penny
a pot less than that. His reasons for consenting now to the
present measure, were in order that they might, without delay,
consider other measures relating to Ireland, without
hindrance or obstruction. But he could assure the
Noble Lord opposite, that if he was determined
to make it a permanent measure, at the present time,
he should be obliged to offer it every obstruction in his power.
He, therefore, hoped that the Noble Lord would reconsider the
matter, and consent to the course he had proposed.
Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN said he hail never been more dis-
appointed in any statement. He had hoped to hear how the
proposed measure would increase the supply or food, and dimi-
nish the use of grain in brewing and distilling, but he had
been disappointed. In fact some of his statements would lead
them to infer that the tendency would be rather to increase
than to diminish the use of grain.—( Hear, hear.)
It was clear to him that if mollasses were introduced, the
effect would be to diminish the use of grain, and therefore libe-
rate a considerable amount of food for the consumption of the
people of Ireland; but the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, said he had no such intention.
Molasses were not to be introduced, but sugar was, in breweries.
The same applied to distillers; sugar was to be allowed, but not
molasses. The Right Hon. Gentleman, in speaking of distil-
leries, further stated, that if malt was less in price than 545. a
quarter there would be no inducement to use sugar. They
were, therefore, to expect a very material supply of food from
the present measure. Such was the appalling statement. If the
Govet nment had really meant the measure to do some good, they
should have allowed the use of both sugar and molasses in dis-
tilleries and breweries, and prohibited the use of gr in altoge-
ther. There was one point connected with the statement of
the Right Hon. Gentleman of great interest to those con-
nected with Irish affairs. The present measure would destroy
the only manufacture at present in Ireland. He appealed to
the Hon. Member for Cork (Mr. Callaghan) if it would not
occasion the total annihilation of spirit making—( Hear, hear)
—seeing that it was proposed to reduce the duty on rum from
gi. 4d. to 33. 24., which was the new duty proposed. It was
not his intention to go further into the subject to-night, as he
was not folly prepaeod to into the details; but he could not
remain silent after hearing such a Jsngerous statement as had
been made by the Right Hon. Gentleman.--( Hear.)
Mr. CALLAGHAN thought the measure veaeld have the
effect of stopping the use of grain in distilleries generally in
Ireland and Scotland, what would be its effects in England he
would leave the protectionists and agriculturists to judge. He
would be able, by a few simple arguments, to show that the
Chancellor of the Exchequer had not sufficiently considered the
case. Let them take the article of spirits. The result of the
present arrangement would be, that the difference between the
duty on rum and whisky in Ireland would be only about 6d. a
gallon; and in Scotland, adding the duty on malt to that on
spirits, the difference would only be I lad. or 2d.—( Hear, hear.)
Yet the Government proposed to allow the West
India proprietor to use molasses for distilling,
would not allow the English and Scotch distillers Con-
sidering
the vast amount of capital embarked in distilliog, he
:
could not buy look on the present measure with dismay, as he
believed it would ;.
•e the effect of causing all these great
establishments to be abara!!"
necl. Entertaining these views, he
had been induced to address the ..II"se•
Mr. BAN KES would occupy the Zs2use but a short time.
lie thought the measure would be inileduced only
as a temporary measure, rather than as a vymanent
one. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had said tnat it
it would have been the intention of the Government under any
circumstances to propose the measure, However that might
be, considering the state of Ireland, he (M:. Bankos) 10041q:41
the Noble Lord at the head of the Government to pass thg
measure as a temporary measure. He knew that. a strong
feeling existed among the agriculturistslthat the malt•tax should
be repealed. It was only yesterday that a most influential
deputation waited on the Noble Lord praying for a remission of
the duty in question, or at least a portion of the duty ;
and the Noble Lord also knows that considering the
state of the country they consented to waive the
matter for the present. Considering, therefore, that these
parties consented to waive their claims, he trusted that the
Noble Lord would also waive his intention of making the mea-
sure a permanent one, and only pass it for a time. No doubt
there was a difference in the present question and one in
which all the advantages went to foreigners : their colonies
would, no doubt, benefit by the measure. Still, in order that
it might be fully arid calmly discussed, he hoped the suggestion
of the Noble Lord the Member for Lynn would be acceded to.
On the grounds he had stated, he hoped the Noble Lord at the
head of the Government would have no difficulty in acting in
the manner desired by the friends with whom he (Mr. Banker)
usually acted.—( Hear, hear.)
GOULBOURN said, that at the close of the last ses-
sion
avoid taking any
Si-on of ii:,;:tiarnent he had taken on himself to advise those
gentterees, wig) /sire interested in their West India Col -hies,
' said that in eon
were to be exposecodv
out of c ra,si, measures, or to throw their estates
cue...seism ' yk4rring that. .advice to them, he
cnuapptttion to which they
sures which the
mitted on terrnswbleiely
against C:geign kosanical;tv, by the mea-
forward, he thought"r teirmnenols
had a right to have their. ;;i9C1.4 ad-
latnaed it e-;;ltempia, tial to `.•,r,ing
with other provinces, woald enable them fairly to compsle
or in the Colonies. 71.{:
now lay under particular felt, therefore, that he
obiiniuttl.te United Kingdom
His Hon. Friend nearntlir mewled to Irant to the
concessions which the Government ions to support the
se expressed is demos that the ts in this country who hlud "Wee.°
that there
were in::".0
urn the GovUlliVnt) a 414& equally strong etairns