The Sun.
London, England, 1847-01-29 00:00:00

Hon. Gentleman had made one statement in January
and another in July. It would appear that the Hon.
Member for Knaresborough had made this statement
with the knowledge that it was merely a gidiatypoterfairti
The Chancellor of the Exchequer had made tria.*47.ll---,_„
vation in compliance with the conviction of "filit(iilvEtl,
meat. He was not going to say whether this
iei; eiglifte
unwise proceeding, but ha simply wished , gegiitleeirether •.•
feelings of the House respecting the conduc ofilleteur-
missioners. -
Sir C. NAPIER said, that it appeare lhat—tte
reports on which the mover relied were tiqbeirbe
Keighley Union, and he thought that in Me! r4o.rt
which was recommended to the House, that this report
should be received, especially as the opinions of those
Commissioners was not to be relied upon. He thought
that the report made from the Keighley Union ought
not to be relied upon. The Hon. Gentleman had stated,
that this was a packed Committee, but ender the ele-
ct:instances, he thought that no notice whatever should
be taken of the matter.—(Laughter.)
Mr, 'VILLIERS begged to correct the representation
of the lion. Member for Knareshorough. Ho would not
say a word about Mr. Lewis, for although it was com-
prised in facts that had been reported, there was
nothing to shut them out from .the conclusions at which
they had arried.
Mr. VILLIERS thought that the Hon. Member had
arrived at conclusions long before the results were ob-
tained, and that if they were to bo carried out that the
lion. Member for Knaresborough would be able to sub-
stantiate his accusations. He was not prepared to deny
that there was some room for the ellegation which had
been made, but still there was reason for the allowance
of the time which had been asked for to night. He did
not l‘now whether this allegation of Mr. Mott was true
or not, but this he knew, that Mr. Mutt had received a
contribution of 8001. a.year, and he simply wished to
know how the engagements were to be satisfied ?
Mr. FERRAND was riot particular as to the words
which had been used, nor did he require all the reports
for which he had asked. His only desire was to give sa-
tisfaction to the public ; and in the case of Mr. Lewis it
mattered little whether the question was to be given in
favour of Mr. Lewis or Mr. Jones. All he desired was,
that the conduct of the Poor-law Commissioners should
be fully investigated, and that it should be ascertained
how far the Poor-law Commissioners had acted
in accordance with the Act of Parliament. It mattered
little whether Lewis or Jones was the acting persons.
He freely acknowledged that he was the author of the
letters which had been so much alluded to in the course
of the discussion. He had never imputed improper
motives to Mr. Christopher, but what he did say was,
that Mr. Christopher went into the country incognito
to perform certain duties for individual members of the
Government.
Sir F. THESIGER said the lion. Gentleman was
mistaken if he fancied any delay would take place in
the legal proceedings that were pending against him;
and if the Hon. Gentleman would only plead speedily
the case might be put down for trial at once.
The motion was then withdrawn.
PUNISHMENTS IN THE NAVY.
_ Mr. HUME did not know whether there would be
any objection to a motion ho was about to make for a
return of the punishments which had taken place in the
nary under Captain Stopford. He did not make the
motion with any view of trying Captain Stopford again,
but it was really important that they should have some
individual case as data to go upon, in settling or
testing the degree of severity practised in the
navy. The returns last year showed that the
'average number of lashes given in one case was 48, while
the lowest was three. The greatest portion of the
punishments were inflicted for drunkenness, and it was
important to ascertain how far the extent of punish-
ment exceeded the law.
On the motion being put,
Captain WARD said, he must concur fully in the ob-
servations of his Honourable Friend, but nothing
could be more unjust than to publish all
the statements that had influenced the Lords
of the Admiralty in their decision, without their
being anything put forward in exculpation of the charges
that had been preferred against Captain Stopford. Ho
trusted that, under these circumstances, his lion. Friend
would not press the motion.
Sir C. NAPIER said, it should be recollected that
there had been a half dozen different codes, for the
regulation of the navy. He considered that
the Hon. Member was deceiving the House when he
stated that the navy was ruled by the laws of George
the First or George the Second, he did not know which.
It was, therefore, very unjust of the Hon. Gentleman
to make the observations which he had done. They
were now under new and different instructions. Captain
Stopford had been acquitted upon evidence which those
who tried him must have considered sufficient, and ho
thought the best course would have been to move for the
minutes of that evidence.
Mr. WILLIAMS said he was quite ready to give his
support to the present Board of Admiralty. And he
was of opinion, that when:men were competent to com-
mand, that there would not exist any necessity for
flogging; and it was only when men were incompetent
to govern that recoure was had to corporal punishment.
Besides, there was a decrease in the number of punish-
ments of late years. Between the years 1844 and 1845
there had been a considerable diminution; and looking
ing back a few years he found that they were double
the number of the year:,
year. This was owing to no
change in the opinions of the officers, but to public
opinion being brought to bear upon the subject. Ire
believed the House would be doing a great
injury in bringing all the evidence in this
matter before the House at present.—(Hear. hear.)
Why was there so great a difference in the case of the
army and navy? The present number of lashes allowed
to be given to a sailor was 48. If Captain Stopford
bad given that number, and no more, he would of curse
be acquitted by:the court-martial.
Captain HARRIS said, that in all the cases where a
reduction of the amount of punishment had been made,
it had been done by, and with the advice of, the officers
in command.
Lord INGESTRIE thought 'it was all very well
for the Hon Member to come down and lecture
the House upon the question of corporal punishments.
He would like to see the Hon. Member in command of a
vc ssel with a boisterous or mutinous crew, and having no
means of punishment at his command. He (Lord
Ingestrie) had commanded several of her Majesty's
vessels, arid he could speak for himself, and, in doing
so, he thought that he was expressing the feeling gene-
rally entertained by naval officers, that there was no
part of their duty more painful than that of inflicting
punishment upon the seamen. -It was necessary, how-
ever, for the safety of the ship, that the crew should be
amenable to prompt and energetic punishment. He
would recommend to the Hon. Member to take a cruise
for eighteen months or a couple of years, in one of her
Majesty's vessels, with an insubordinate crew, in stress
of weather or in the face of an enemy, without the means
of punishment, the Hon. Member would then soon alter
his opinions upon the subject.
Mr. HUME said that all he wanted was a return of
the number of men on board the ship, and the amount of
punishment inflicted upon them. As it appeared-, how-
ever, to be the desire of the Hon. Gentleman below him
that the motion should be postponed, be had no objection
for the present to acquiesce in their desire.
The motion was accordingly withdrawn.
NAVIGATION LAWS.
Mr. lIUME moved for a copy of all memorials and
representations from Canada respecting the differential
duties on goods imported into the colonies, and respect-
ing the operation and effect of the British Navigation
Laws on their commerce since 1845.—Ordered.
PROVISION DEPOTS IN IRELAND.
Mr. HAMILTON moved for a return of the several
places in Ireland where the depots of provisions have
been established, the date when such depot was opened,
and the average price at which each description of pro-
visions have been sold during the month.—Ordered.
BREWING FROM SUGAR BILL.
This Bill was read a second time, and was ordered to
be read a third time on Friday next.
BUCKWHEAT, &c., IMPORTATION BILL.
This Bill went through Committee, and was ordered
to be read a third time on Friday.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of,
and the House adjourned at a Quarter past Twelve.

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