The Sun.
London, England, 1840-06-13 00:00:00

be acting in opposition to what he considered the word of God
--(Cheers, and
-great confusion)—but while he said this, he at
the same time must express his admiration of the devotedness,
the heroism, and the enlq'hted zeal which they had exhibited
in their erc'eavoure te.atroplierete the onharipseeenai+,intt of thil
elers, ewal he 4',-.3`flSl told then' up as an example to the women
ai ilritain, for the devotedness which they had displayed to
effect, this object.—( Cheers.)
The Rev. J. A. JAMES, of Birmingham, had not been an in-
different, nor, as far as exertions in this country could go, an
inactive spectator of the progress of the cause Of the abolition
of slavery in America ; and such had been the impression
formed upon his osier!) or the eatertiohs of those females of
whoae eatees America might be justly proud, that he would
Willingly have undertaken the journey to town had it been only
to sec such women as Mrs. Chapman and Mrs. Bevan. But
he was quite sure that, in that assembly that morning, the
moving the question of their admission had been prejudicial
to the cause. He was sorry the abstract qeestion of the rights
of women had nectipied so large a share of their attetition;
He regretted that the question had been brought from the
other side of the Atlantic.—(Cheers ) It would have been
better to have settled it there first— ( Loud cheers)—and have
allowed them to pursue their own course without cmbarras-
casting them on the suliect,—(Lord cheers.) SeYeral
pressions had been tteide ttsd of by the gentlemen from
America, in the cool se of the discussion, which he had been
delighted to hear. He was pleased with the declaration of
Mr. Miller, that whatever might be the decision of the ma-
jority of the Convention, to that he was prepared to how ; and
though as Mr. Phillips could not conscientiously consent to
withdraw his resolution, the question must go to the vote,
yet he thought, however, they might gise their votes, it
would occasion) no divisions among them ; but that they would
all be prepared to go forward in the great and good work
which they had undertaken with perfect confidence in each
other's motives.—( Loud cheers, ) They had never before had
a single word on the question of the right of females. It was
a question perfectly new in this country. They M ere not pre-
pared for its discussion. It had never before been mooted,
and they were therefore not prepared to jump to a conclu-
sion. The question invo;ved in this country jar wider con-
siderations titan even the question of slavery itself—
( Hear, hear, and cheers)—and he trusted they would not
gratify their enemies by quarrelling on the threshold.—(Loud
cheers.) He was sure the American Delegates would stand
acquitted at the bar of their own country of any imputation of
lukewarmness on this question.—( Cheers.) The females
could never reproach them with having deserted their cause,
and they would go back honoured by all those who had sent
them there—and should they one day agree with their American
friends in opinion on this subject, then would they welcome
those females within the bar who were now placed a little be-
yond it, but whom he could not think disgraced by being so
placed.—( Cheers.) No man could have read " The Martyr
Age," glowing as it did with the meet pathetic pictures, add to
him infinitely more interesting than the most interesting ro-
mance,wit bout forming the highest opinion of the devotedness, the
talents, and the heroism of the women of America.—( Cheers. )
America was the only country in the world which could boast.
a very extensive martyrology to this cause, and they would add
another laurel to their wreaths, if, in the event of the Conven-
tion coming to the vote on this subject, which he believed and
hoped they would—( Cheers and laughter)—they would still con-
tinue to appear in this first meeting of the sort which had ever
been assembled since slavery first existed, and be with them and
around them, although they could not be amongst them. He
hoped that all that had occurred on this question would be only
like what sometimes was introduced into the most melodious
music, a discord only to make the harmony the mere com-
plete.—( Loud cheers.)
Mr. Caine's amendment not having been seconded, fell to
the ground, and the Chairman was about to put the original
resolution, when
Mr. STACEY said, that he had only consented to with-
draw his amendment, upon the understanding that Mr. Phil-
lips would consent to withdraw his original motion ; but that
gentleman having declined, it was not competent for him to do
so. He (Mr. Stacey) would not withdraw his amendment.—
( Loud cries of " Question, question ; Divide, divide.")
The Cieetnatate said, that as the greatest majority of the
meeting seemed to wish to come to a decision on the subject,
he would now put the question,
Dr. Cox protested against this peremptory decision of the
Chairman. It was not competent for any number of gentle-
men to demand of the Chairman that he should come to a
prompt decision on this subject.—(Cheers.) Gentlemen on
the other side of the question were entitled to be heard, and
if they were not heard, he should move an adjournment.
Mr. J. CANNING FULLER said, that he lepresentcd as large
a constituency es any one present, and he was surprised that
any attempt should be made to prevent persons from speaking.
It had been said that the question ought to have been settled
on the other side the Atlantic. Why, it had been settled in
favour of the women a year ago ; and with regard to the
terms of the invitation, there was nothing about gentlemen in
the first invitation, and the women had been elected before the
second notice had been received.
Capt. WALKER said that in whatever country an institution
was formed something should be given up to the feelings and pre-
judices of the country in which it was formed.—(Cheers.) The
ladies across the Atlantic had exerted themselves nobly—
(Cheers)—and he trusted they would continue to do so—(Loud
cheers)—but he entreated the ladies not to push this question.
—(Cheers.) They did not perhaps fully comprehend the feel-
ing existing in this country on the subject.—( Cheers.) The
question reduced itself to this. Were they prepared to give
up the institution of this Society ?—( Loud cheers.) Were the
Americans willing to cast off England altogether? England had
given a proof of her sincerity in the anti-slavery cause by paying
twenty millions to get rid of the abomination of slavery, and
were they now willing to cast England off? If the Society had
been established in America he should never have mooted the
question of the exclusion of females ; he would do nothing to
offend the prejudices of the country in which they were, and he
trusted they would do nothing calculated to cripple the great
cause in which they were engaged. —( Cheers.)
Mr. ButtNEY, Secretary of the National Anti-Slavery Society
of New York, said that he rose for the purpose of correcting an
impression which might be produced upon the minds of the
Convention, by what had fallen from some of the preceding
speakers from the United States, and also from Mr. J. Thom-
son. Those gentlemen had made use of expressions calculated
to produce the impression that the women question, as it was
called, was considered settled in the United States. Now, such
was by no means the case. It was still a mooted question,
and a question which, since he had left America, had led to
splits among the Anti-Slavery Societies, and to the organiza-
tion of new ones, from which females were expressly excluded.
It was true the question had been decided in their favour last
year, but that decision had been come to by by no means a
large majority, and a portion of that majority was made up by
the females themselves. Again, in Massachusetts, this principle
had been a principal ground of separation among the Societies.
On both sides the question, however, were -to be found good
Abolitionists and true. In Massachusetts a separation had
taken place—one Society admitted females, the other did not.
Since he had left New York, he had heard from his friend,
Lewis Tuppan, on the subject. In a Committee of which he
was a member, the name of a distinguished Abolitionist, Mrs.
Child, had been placed on the Committee. She was at a dis-
tance from the place, and consequently unable to attend, and
Mr. Tuppan had moved that the name of her husband, Mr.
Child, a most talented man, should be substituted. This pro-
position, however, was negatived, and another lady, Miss
Kelly, elected in the room of Mrs. Child. In consequence of
this, Mr. Tuppan and several of his friends had come to a reso-
lution to separate from the Society on that ground. Besides,
most of those who were for the rights of women were also in
favour of what was called the No-human Government system.
.—(Hear, hear.) He had had only given this account, in or-
der to enable the Convention to come to an intelligent decision
on the subject.—( Cheers. )
Mr. BueNEY and Mr. THOMPSON severally explained.
The Rev. C. SCOBELL said the whole question was now
rather one of order than of anything else. They were assem-
bled there together from all parts of the world to consider ques-
tions relating to negro slavery ; but whilst they were discussing
the powers of the Delegates, they were called upon to decide a
question of a totally different character—a question of which
they had never before heard anything—the question of the
rights of women. He would not withhold from them any of
their rights—he would give them more than their rights—he
thought that both men and women too would be but hardly off
if they had nothing but their rights. If that question was tear-
ing the Societies in pieces in the United States, why should
they introduce it to tear the Societies in pieces in this country
also ?—( Loud cheers. ) He considered the introduction of the
question was decidedly out of order, and he should vote for the
confirmation of the list of Delegates, as handed in by the Com-
mittee, and henceforth he hoped they would entertain this ques-
tion no more.—(Cheers.) Were they not met together
pledged to do something against slavery, and would they suffer
the tide of benevolence to be stopped by a straw? They had
assembled for the destruction of slavery, and they ought not to
expose themselves to ridicule through the whole length and
breadth of the land. He should move, as an amendment, that
the list of Delegates, as handed in by the Committee, should be
adopted.—( Cheers. )
Mr. PRESCOTT, of Barbadoes, rose, not for the purpose of
discussing the question, but of stating a fact. The ladies them-
selves haul not come over with any very certain expectation of
being received among them.—( Cheers.) He had had that
fact from the ladies themselves, as he happened to be a fellow-
lodger with the ladies.—(Laughter, cheers, and cries of " Oh,
oh.") The ladies had been elected conditionally, if their re-
ception should be in accordance with the customs of the coun-
try ; and if it ware not so, they were absolved from all respon-
sibility.—( Cries of Shame, shame; you ought not to detail
private conversations here.") The conversation which took
place last night was not a private one ; they had had a prelimi-
nary meeting, at which persons not Delegates were present.
lie stated this in the presence of the American Delegates, and
of the ladies themselves.—(Loud cries of " Order, order.")
The CHAIRMAN said the speaker was decidedly out of order
in giving the details of private conversation; he had clearly no
right to do so.—( Loud cheers. )
The Rev. Dr. Moentsoe said they were already on the
brink of a precipice. The discussion of this question had
already given rise to feelings not only adverse to the object for
which they were assembled, but to that Christian spirit by
which all previous anti-slavery meetings had been actuated—
( Cheers)—for whatever had been done in this country in the
anti-slavery cause had becu done under the guidance of Chris-
tian principles. They were firm-minded men on both sides
of this , question. It was a question of conscience between
the two parties, but he would say it was a question of conscience
between a small minority on one side, and a mighty majority
on the other. He might discuss this question until the
Convention was broken up—but would their American friends
)a,
assembledrab‘esl believed if
indulge any hope of carrying this question, if it should be put
to the vote of the
bm.ceoesueeltdei meeting?—(Cheers.)
induced(Clh, e:ee
They
st
motion
ost
the
discuss
sinrs
would be unanimity
Am e.s
the question of anti-slavery, and they were now asked to discuss
another, and that upon a minor question, as to the admission of
female Delegates from a small section of the Amer' ' American coon-
tent. He beseeched them calmly to consider the position in
which the discussion of that question was placing them
that day.—(Hear.) The present was unlike any meeting
that had hitherto been held its England. All former anti-slavery
meetings in England had been unanimous.—(Cheers. ) Would
their American brethren keep them in their present position.)
Besides, he thought it improper that this discussion should lis;
carried on in the presence of the ladies.—(Loud cheers.) Ile
knew the feelings of the Americans on this subject. He knew
how anxious the discussion of this question in their own country
had made them, arid now they were making the friends of the
anti-slavery cause as anxious on the subject in this.—(Cheers. )
Ile was convinced they did not admire the position females oc-
cupied in this country, or they would never have mooted this
question. He urged them to proceed immediately to their di-
vision in a spirit of Christian charity, and to abide by the de-
eision.—(Loud cheers.)
The CHAIRMAN said the hour was so late, that he should
now call upon Mr. Phillips to reply.
Mr. Pii [tines, in reply, denied the assertions of Mr. Pres-
cott, that the women did not expect to be received when they
came there, or that they had any liberty left them of choice.
The women of Massachusetts had nu such liberty of choice left
the:a, and they would have been coming to that Convention
with a lie in their mouths, and have been guilty of the grossest
deception if, having such liberty, they had come before the
Convention in the way they had done. The particulars of that
conversation had been greatly exaggerated. It was not true
that the rent, in the American Societies had been owing to the
introduction of the women question ; his friend, who had made
that assertion, had been misinformed on the subject. It was
polities which had occasioned that split, and not the introduc-
tion of the women question. He, for one, was not a favourer
of the no.human Government plan ; and he knew many
strenuous supporters of the rights of women who, like him-
self, were by no means favourable to that scheme:—(Cheers.)