The Sun.
London, England, 1847-07-16 00:00:00

IMPERIAL. PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, July 15.
Their Lordships assembled at Five o'clock.
MUSCLE FISHERIES BILL.
Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition against this
Bill from a place in Scotland, which he characterised as
one of the most incredible pieces of legislation ever
sought to be perpetrated. The petition, which the Noble
Lord said was most respectably signed, bcsou4lit their
Lordships not to pass the Bill. The Noble Lord said
he felt very much disposed to move that the Bill be read
a second time this day three mouths, during which
period the muscles might remain undisturbed, but he
should refrain from doing so.—(Laughter.)
JUVENILE OFFENDERS BILL.
On the motion of Lord DEVON, their Lordships pro-
ceeded to consider the reasons of the House of Commons
for disagreeing to certain of the Lords amendments with
respect to this Bill.
The Marquis of WESTMINSTER c,3nsidered that
their Lordships had adopted a very unwise course in ex-
punging the clause which left it to a person brought be-
fore a magistrate to elect whether he should be sum-
marily committed or tried by a jury,
Lord BEAUMONT agreed with his Noble Friend,
and regretted that the alterations complained of had

_
been made.
The subject then dropped.
(A motion was put from the chair and carried, as we
understood, but its nature, or, in fact, what became of the
matter, we were utterly at a. loss to divine, from the low
tone in which Noble Lords spoke. It would seem that
many Noble Lords are determined that their proceed-
ings, no matter how much they may affect the public,
should not reach the public.)
NEW SOUTH WALES.
Earl GREY presented a petition from New South
Wales, praying for an independent form of Govern-
ment. The Noble Earl said the subject was one which
would receive the serious attention of the Government
before the next session.
POOR SUPERVISION BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed with some
amendments.
POOR-LAW ADMINISTRATION BILL.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE moved the third
reading of this Bill.
Lord BROUGHAM objected to the Bill being further
proceeded with this session, as, without its aid, the law
could be administered until next session; and during
the recess and next session they would have more time
to consider the new powers which this Bill
proposed. It was said that the salary of
the Poor-law Commissioner, who was to sit in Par
liament, was to be 2,000/. a year, but it ought
either to be increased, or reduced at the option of the
Government. Now such an officer ought to be placed
in a more independent position ; he certainly would
have no easy task to perform. He should, therefore,
propose that the Bill be read a third time this day six
months. He hoped that Mr. Chadwick and Captain
Nichols, who were in fact the authors of the system,
would still be employed in the administration of the
law. They would he removed as a matter of
course, if this Bill were passed without compensation.
This would be unfair to them and to others connected
with the Poor law Commission, as they had borne the
brunt of all the labours and odium of the offices which
they had held. No term that could be culled from the
English dictionary was spared upon them—they were
called " dictators," " hard-hearted," and " cruel." Com-
mon charity was not even exercised towards them ; and
had the other commissioners stood as firm in the
administration of the law, and as heedlesS of
public clamour, as Mr. Chadwick and Captain Nicholls,
the law would have been better administered. He thought
it right to say this in their behalf, as he had induced
Captain Nicholls to give up an office worth 2,5001. a
year to take his present office ; and was he and Mr.
Chadwick, who had collected the materials out of
which they had framed all the Poor-law Bills, to be left
penniless ?
The BISHOP of LONDON said the merit of the
poor-law was mainly due to Mr. Chadwick, who pos-
sessed Vas facility of making himself master of every
subject into which he entered. No doubt the differences
between the Commissioners and Mr. Chadwick arose
from his desire to carry out the law in all its integrity.
He had read the correspondence on both sides, and he be-
lieved this was the extent of his fault, and he thought that
he should not go unrewarded. It was understood that
Mr. Chadwick should take an active part in the admi-
nistration of the Poor-law, and it was but natural that
he should feel some dissatisfaction if, after a time, he
found that his influence was not that which he expected.
He would be an useful man to the public in particular
departments—in connexion with sanatory retorm, for
instance. He had known Mr. Chadwick since the com-
mencement of the inquiry with respect to the Poor-law,
and he considered that he should not go unrewarded.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said, as a member
of a board of guardians, and as one anxious to carry out
the law, he wished to bear testimony to the high cha-
racter of Mr. Chadwick. He considered that the whole-
sale dismissal of the Commissioners would be grossly
unjust.
The Marquis of' LANSDOWNE said the poor-law
was passed as a temporary measure, and the parties
employed under it could not but look forward to some
material alterations in it at a future period ; in fact, that
it might undergo an entire change; and yet the commis-
sioners and others took their respective offices on these
conditions. No expectation was held out that they
would receive retiring pensions—but he did not deny
that they had that claim ou the Government which
merit must always have. The Act merely anticipated
the termination of the commission by a few months,
when the employment of all connected with the com-
mission would cease. The Parliament had had the
power, during the whole time the commission had ex-
isted, either to increase or to reduce the salaries of all
the persons employed in connexion with the commis-
sion.—(Hear, hear.) The salaries were left out of the
Bill, and placed entirely under the control of the House
of Commons.—(Hear, hear.) If any error had been
committed, with respect to the salaries for the new
commissioners, it was that they were too low—(Hear,
hear)—but they might be altered hereafter. He be-
lieved all connected with the commission had discharged
their duty most conscientiously.
Earl WICKLOW considered that the salary of a
commissioner, who had a seat in Parliament, should
not be increased or decreased at the caprice of the Le •
gislature—such a course was at variance with every
precedent.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said, in 1831 the
salaries of the officers of State and others were reduced
by the Treasury.
Lord MONTEAGLE corroborated the statement of
his Noble Friend.
Earl GREY said the salary of the commissioner who
would have a seat in Parliament, would be the same as
the President of the Board of Trade.
Their Lordships then divided, when there appeared—
For the third reading ... 32
For the amendment , lO
Majority .............
The Bill was then read a third time and passed.
The following Bills were then read a second time :
Herring Fishery (Scotland) Bill—Post-office Bill—Na-
vigation(No. 2) —Muscle Fisheries Bill (Scotland)—
Drainage of Lands (Ireland) Bill--Stock in Trade Ex-
emption Bill—Polling at Elections Bill—Joint Stock
Companies Bill.
The Compensation for Damages Bill (Ireland) passed
through Committee.
The following Bills were read a third time :—Ec-
clesiastical Jurisdiction Amendment Bill —Railways
(Ireland) Bill, No. 2—Fishery Piers and Harbours Bill
(Ireland)—Turnpike Roads (South Wales) Bill—Canada
Consolidated Revenue Fund Bill—Print Works Bill—
Navigation (Ireland) Bill—London Bridge
Termini—General Enlargement Bill.
SRhaai
Inwriaoyn
Their Lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, July 15.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Three o'Clock.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORTS.
The reports on the following Bills were considered
and agreed to:—Salisbury and Yeovil Railway; South-
ampton and Dorchester
CON Railwa y (Blandford Branch).
SED R
The Dean and Chapter of Westminster's Estate Bill
was read a second tiHlßme, D
andREADING. ordered to be committed.
T
The St. Abuyn's Estate Bill was read a third time.
LORDS' AMENDMENTS.
The Lords' amendments to the following Billa were
considered and agreed to:—
Eastern Counties Railway (Wisbeach to Spalding).
Eastern Union Railway (Branch from Manningtree to
Harwich).
Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock, and Ayr Railway, and
Ayrshire and Bridge of Weir Railway (No. )London
Great Northern Railway (Deviations between London

and Grantham).
Kingston-upon-Hull Dock Company.
Leominster Canal Navigation Sale.
London and North-Western Railway (Ormskirk and
Rainford Branch, &c.)
Manchester and Birmingham, and North Staffordshire

Junction Railway.
Oldham Alliance Railway.

Swansea Harbour.
'raw Vale Railway and Dock (Deviations and Bideford
and South Molton Branches).
York and North Midland Railway (East Riding Canals
Purchase).
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
On the motion of Mr. GREENE, the following reso-
lutions were agreed to :_That the Examiner of Petitions
have leave to sit and proceed on the Dean and Chapter
of Westminster's Estate Bill forthwith, and to report
this day.—On the report from the Examiner of Peti-
tions on the Dean and Chapter of Westminster's Estate
Bill, being brought up, and on the Bill being read a
second time, to move, that it be an instruction to the
Committee of Selection to appoint the first sit-
ting of the Committee to-morrow, and that the
Committee have leave to report upon Monday.—That
l)undas' Estate Bill be read a second time this day, and
that it be an instruction to the Committee of Selection
to appoint the Committee on the said Bill to meet to-
morrow, and that the Committee on the Bill have leave
to report forthwith.--That the Committees on Newbart
(or Gravenor's) Estate Bill, Paterson's Estate Bill, Hyl-
ton's Estate Bill, Penson's Estate Bill, Mansel's Estate
Bill, Lord Orrard's Estate Bill, have leave to report to-
morrow.
Mr. FOrXREEIACUELMERpCrieIseOntEedSa petition, signed byCOTLAND.
the Moderator of the Free Church and others, complain-
ing of a grievance under which a great number of indi-
viduals in Scotland laboured : bat, before 1843, many
churches were built by the subscriptions of those who
had now seceded from the Established Church of Scot-
land, of the use of which they had been deprived by
the decision of the courts of law, though the General
Assembly had guaranteed them before the late seces-
sion the uninterrupted use and command of gum.