The Sun.
London, England, 1841-03-13 00:00:00

of the merits of the Bill now before the House, the pre-
v siens of the other Bill. upon a part of the same sehject
ought to be before the House. He thorght that Gentle:oen
upon his side had a right to complain of the course Which
Ministers had pursued in respect to the sepa-ate advance-
ment of tl e two Bills. This Bill did not propose to atm-
flab the Courts of Baron and the Lea Court?, and he did
not see why it proposed to abolish the Courts of Request.
He did not tee why this measure was to be forced upon
districts which were already satisfied with the new laws
%%Well bad so recently been passed for there. There
was on his side of the House, every disposition to g.ve
every facility to the estThlishment of Small Debts
Courts; but they objected to this measure as having none
of the good principles whish the other measures, intended
to be superseded by ie actually contained. The House of
Lords had rejected a Bill of much the same nature as the
present, which was introduced by Lord Brougham. —( A
laugh.) Ho asked, did Hon. Members opposite laugh at
the Bill of their own Lord Chancellor, ?—( Hear, hear,
and a laugh.) That Bill contaired crrttinly one
phantssy —one folly--( A laugh)—the project cf a Court
of R conci.emeno—(fleae, and a laugh.) That was a
fully, but the Bill, on the eh was lees foolish than tiii
Bi 1. Let tile House look for a moment at what the Go-
v •rnment now required. They wanted two addriorial
Equity ledges, with a salary of 5,000/. a-year each, be-
sides the pa) meat of secre aries, clerks, and ether officers.
They had also a Bill before the House for the est eblish.
meat of twenty-feur nes Judges of Appeal, to be ap-
pointed by the Speaker, if not by the Government itself ;
arid now they came and ale I for the appointment of
fifty-four Judges more. Tho Commissioners whom they
had themselves entrusted %1 i h the duty of reporting on the
subject, had stated that it would be difficult to find tee enty-
three lawyers of eminence at the bar to fill the office of
Judger. The object of the Gover-nmeat would seem to
have been to find two Judges of great eminerce, and
twenty-nine Judges of i iferior, but high character, while
they would have fifty of less consideration, so that they
would, in reali-y, require in all seventy-nix Judges.—
Teat was a bold experiment, a wholesale system of
lrgislatien on the subject. The expe sea which would
attend the proposed system would, he should venture to
say, amount to beteeet. 300,000/. and 400,000/. a 3 sear.—
(Hear, hest-. ) No doubt this wan a time at which it %sae
supposed such an Licreasecl expense could be incur ed ;
this must have bran, in the eyes of Government, a terser,
of prospe ity, when we were in no danger from f reign
egg ession, and when all was quiet at home.—( He ir,
beer.) He did not wish to speak harshly of the Govern-
ment, but he remembered that when they had accepts d
effice, they declsred their determination of adopting the
no-patronage principle. How painful it must be to
them to have forced on them, by the necessity of the
linos, no doubt, a degree cf patronage of which the
most rapacious Government .had never dreamt.—(hoar.)
The Bill required no standing, no degree of eminence on
the part of those who were to act as Judger under it. It
also coetained many i ijurious details. The atoornry, for
in:t Ince, who might appear for a party was net allowed to
reee've more than 102. for his remuneration on the reco-
very of a sum under 201. Such a remuneration was insuf-
ficient, and that system would only tend to induce attor-
neys to make up in the number of cases, by creating litiga-
tion, for the smallness of the reward allotted to them. In
the vast majority of cases at present the opir.ion cf counsel
given decided the csse without its coming into Court a'
ell, because the law was certain; but by this Bill there
would be fifty different Courts without any appeal t bring
About uniformity in their deci,ione, and however good the
Courts might be at their commencement this would
infallibly make _them bad in the progress of t: me.
( Heae. ) Was the House aware of the present mode of
pruceeci gin the Courts of Requests. It was impossible
that anv 1 iwyer could address himself to administer the
I ever in Nuns of that sort, and therefore they ought to be
left as they ace cat prefeet. These were not mere Small
Debts Court; &one, but they were to have jurisdiction in
cases of slander, libel, false imprisonment, seduction, cri-
minal conversation—cast's the most important as involving
questions of law and charactee and these were to be de-
ei.e I ie Courts where attorneys and not counsel were to
attend. Nov, to keep a Judge to his duty, it was eeces-
sary he should have an. intelligent bar to watch h's
conduct, and a Coma of Appeal over him. These Courts
would to a vast extent etc :urrge actions among the lower
orde,s which they would never have thought of bring-
ing but fir toe Bill, and it would cr, aee bound-
less confu.lixt and litigarion throughout the country.
The second Bill contained powers to a great extent.
Those Commissioners and Judges who in the first Bill
were merely suboreieatee, had in the second Bill cast upon
them the most important duties. They were made County
Comn i:sioncrs of Benkruptcy, and a power was given to
the Lord Chancellor to enable them to transact any busi-
r ess which the Court of Review now performed ; in f .c•,
there was no question of lv.v that they might not becal.e I
upon to decide, however important it might he. A more
important jurisdiction could not be given to the highest
Judges cf the land, than was going to be given to these
Judges, these Pie Poudre Courts. Besides that arse
Judges were to be Commissioners of 'Lunacy, and, inde-
pznclent of that, they were to execute all inquiries directed
by the Lord Chancellor. The resu t wes, that duties were
thrown upon them which they r.ever could fulfil. A more
ill considered n ensure than the present he had never seen,
and he believed it to be a measure that would be repro-
bated from one end of the country to the other. In fact it
was impossible the thing could work. He had much more
to say upon tie Bill, but considering the lateness of the
hour he would not trouble the House further than to say he
would give all the provisions of the Bill his mast strenuous
, opposition.

• 'Mr. F. MAUL E sail Le would not at that late hour
enter into any lengthened discussion upon the subject of
the Bill teen before the lleuse, more especially as the
Hon. and Learned Gentlemen 'on the other side of the
House had declared their approbation of its principle, hut
while they did so they endeaveured, as far as was
i r their power, to overthrew that principle, and
they had gi‘oe their approbation m, re frt.m a fe ling
that they dared not refute the principle that from ail
love they bore to that mea ur-. T, e Right Hon. and
Learned Meml er seemed to treat with ridicule and de-
rision the object of tie Bill, namely, to bring home to
the doer cf the poor man justice. —( Hear, hear.) TI e
Right Honourable Gentleman had touched upon mar y
matters which he was not competent to discuss, hut
several remarks had fallen from him, to which he felt
bound to say something. In talking of the qualific ition
of the Judge?, the Horsourable Gentleman had
drawn the worst possible picture of what might be
the operation of the Bill, lie had supposed the ma-
chinery to ho selected of the worst materials, and had
complained of the period of praefce required i s
order to become a Judge. When this Bill was first istrc-
duced the limit fixed was seven years. It want into Com-
mite e up stairs and came ba-k in the precise form in
which it tea came Lefore the House. Members of both
sides of the House were members of that Committee. It
was in entire coosonanco with the opinion of the Com-
mittee. The Hon. Gentleman had said tl at the number
of Judges was a bold proposition. He ( Mr. F. Maule)
admitted that it was se. But the evils to be remedied
ace as vast as that proposition was bold. No owe could
deny that a vast mass of grit VATICO3 existed under the pre-
sent administration. The ohj,:et of the Bill was to assimilate
aild amend the administration of the law throughout the
whole kingdom. For that purpose, a very great change
must be made ; and those who proposed that change must
lie prepared to be attacked for making a large and exten-
sive, and, as the lion. Gentleman had termed it, a bold
change. He (Mr. F. Maul .) was quite ready to take his
shat eof the blame. There had been no attemj.t to con-
ceal the numbers proposed—it was stated in the very first
page in the Bill.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman
s rid th. t ;hey had been afraid to state at once, and in one
Bid, the whole number cf Judges which they contem-
plated. The reason why he had brought in two Bills
was this. He was quite aware that if the se-
cond Bill were mixed up with the first, it would
have been otjeetted th.t tile matters aa e.e per!'eetly
differeat, and that endeeveurs would have brew ma le
by objections to the s. cond, to throw out the first of his
Bills. He had thought it Lest to avoid ri king such a re-
su:t. Now, by the first Bi 1 he proposed to establish
Local Courts throughout England, to the number of 25.
The Hon. Member had statei that the expense attendant
upon them would be enormous. He ( Mr. F. Mau!e)
would, when the question came on again for discussion,
prove to the House that instead cf brirging a vast expen-
diture Ilion the country, the Bill would actually effect a
considerable saving—( Hear, hear)—both with reference
to the country court', and to bankruptcy, insolvency, and
lunacy. As to the complaint of the Honourable
Member that the House had been taken by sun.
pri.e, he begged to remind him that the Report
of the Committee was laid upon the table of the
House in the July of last Sea inn ; and the Bid was in-
troduced on the recommoulation contained in that Re-
port. The Hon. Member had, in speaking of. the Smell
D,lsts Bills which had be on passed within the last two or
three Sessions, Worsted to the very difficult question of
compensation to the present holders of office. He ( Mr.
F. Massie) believed that that was in fact the rock upon
which these Bills mere made to split.—( Hear, hear.)
Every year, when a fresh measure was proposed, it was
stopped by claims for compensation; and the Right
Honourable Gentleman by the course which he was
pursuing did in fact encourage such claims.—( Hear.)
He would not fellow the Right Hon. Gentleman through
the whole of his observations, aid it would net be fair to
the house to do so, when he was told that the principle of
the Bill was not opposed. He was not so wedded to any of
the clauses of the Bill as to insist on the retention deny
in particular; but when they came to discuss the measure
in Committee, he trusted they would do so without any
party feeling whatevee—( Hear.) Lot them place the
patronage in whatever hands they might, he still trusted
the measure would te.earried through with the consent of
all parties ; and he would not hesitate to give way aed
make any amendments which were likely to meet the views
of the House. He trusted there would be no objection
now to read the Bill a st cond time.
After a few words from Colonel SIBTHORP,
Mr. lIA WES thought the great principle they should
keep in vew was that tr. ey were (re eing a number of
Local Courts, in which jcnfce would be cheaply aid
speedily administ 3e-1. He regretted to find that the lion.
and Learned Gentlemen opposite had confined them-
selves to finding fault with the details of the Bill, alesough
they dated not st'ack its p inciple. They had complained'
f tie enormous amount of the patronage which the Go-
veinment was assuming to itself, but they could not forget
that there were at present 7uo Commissioners scattered a 1
user the country, and that there were 140 Courts of vmri-
ous sorts for the recovery of small debts, and if be mist HA
not there was not a great deal of reliance placed upon the
decisions of the majority of these Courts. If the Gov,ru.
merit was not to appoint the Judges in these Courts, he
wished to know in whose bands the appointment was to be
ph iced? Did the opposite party wish to delay the passing
of the measure till themselves came into power that they
might obtain the patronage which they objected to see
exercised by the present Ministers ?,—( Hear, hear.)
Was it, be would ask, a small benefit to the pubic to
have a cheap mode of recovering debts? The Right Hon.
Gentleman bad said that the Bill was a Bill for the middle
classes, and not for the poor man. Now he (Mr. Helee,)
was at a loss to know how it could be said that it would
not have the egect of bringing home ittetitte to the door of