The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-24 00:00:00

tion of the law, might conscientiously take the oath imposed
upon him with the very smallest holding. Even were the con-
struction which required the peasant to be capable of paying
101. in addition to the rent universally recognised, that could
not get rid of the contradictory swearing which then existed.
It would not do so for this simple reason, that after
all, value of this description was a matter upon
which opinions might honestly differ. All experience proved
that they could not expect oaths to be taken in what they
might believe to be a proper manner. He for one would never
repeat those changes against the Irish people and against
their religion—(Hear, hear)—which upon former occasions he
had heard with great disgust, and he was happy not to have
heard repeated in that debate. He for one would never at-
tribute the false swearing which avowedly had taken place in
Ireland, to any disregard of veracity peculiar to the Irish, or to
any sanction which was given to falsehoods of this description
by the religion which the majority of that people professed.—
(Hear, hear.) Such illiberal opinions he disclaimed with the
utmost disgust. But he must say that not only in Ireland but
in England, and not only in England but in all countries and
in all times, in those cases when the passions and interests,
not of individuals but of large classes and bodies of men were
at stake, oaths and promises the most stringent that could be
devised were barriers easily overleaped or broken through.
All experience proved that this was the case even amongst
men in other respects of the highest character, honour, and
integrity. Was there any class of men who stood higher in
the estimation of the whole world for their veracity and up-
ightness than the British merchants ?—( Hear, hear. )
Was not their character for these virtues recognised from
one end of the globe to the other ? Did not even barbarian
nations rely upon the good faith, the honour, and integrity of
British merchants ? Yet even this body of men, when, by a
mistaken policy, they imposed absurd restrictions upon their
trade, which were only to be got rid of by false oaths being
taken at the Custom-house, broke through the' trammels of
those oaths, so that the Custom-house oaths came to be a bye-
wcrd of all that was worthy of discredit. Those ill-judged
oaths, were, he believed, now dispensed with ; and no oath
was required at present, either from an exporter or importer,
where it was his direct and palpable interest to swear a false-,
hood. He might illustrate this by a still stronger case. There
was no class of men amongst whom a high sense of honour
was more universally prevalent—perhaps that sense of ho-
nour carried them almost to excess—than the officers of the
British army ; and yet, was not every gentleman aware of
the fact, that when officers of the British army, purchasing
commissions, were required to decltre upon their honour,
that neither directly or indirectly had they given more
than the regular price for those commissions, it was
found that the imposition of the oath did not check the prac-
tice against which it was directed, that the practice still con-
tinued, and the wiser policy was adopted of endeavouring, by
other means, to put an end to the evil. With these examples
before their eyes, how could they desire to rest the right of
voting in Ireland upon declarations with respect to the 101.
PropQrty ? Was itnot clear, that even if they returned to the
test which formerly existed, the man would be thought not a
perjurer, not a person disgraced and to be avoided, but a
patriot standing up for the rights and liberties of his country-
men, who should swear with an easy conscience as to the value
of his own and his neighbour's occupation? If they arrayeal
political interests and party passions against the sanctity of the
oath, they could not be surprised if its sanctity were destroyed.
Of this they had an illustration in that very House. Did they
not know that Election Committees, though sworn solemnly
to do justice between party and party, were not to be trusted
where their own party was at stake, and that they
viewed the facts and evid.nce brought before them
through the medium of their political partialities ?—( Hear.)
If the arguments he had addressed to the House were good,
then it clearly followed that they must find out some more easy
and more simple test of fitness for the franchise. He knew
that he would be told that the law in Engiand was found to
work well enough. But the circumstances of the two coun-
tries were so very different, that that was no argument against
his position. In England the pleat majority of the consti-
tuency, derived the franchise from occupation, and that was
measured by the amount of rent paid. When the franchise
was obtained upon a leasehold qualification, It was generally
upon a lease for a period of time, or upon lives, when it was
well known that the holder had a beneficial interest. It
was then admitted that it was absolutely necessary to get
some more easy and yet efficient test. The question then
arose, what ou.:1 t that test to be? No one had been
proposed or even suggested, which could be so little liable to
abuse as the Van of coupling, under certain restric ions, the
right to the franchise to the assessment to the Poor-law. By
that means a person claiming the franchise, showed the
grounds upon which the franchise arose, and that he was
bearing corresponding burdens. When he stated that the
principle was the most simple and obvious one which had
been pointed out, he felt bmind at the same time to state,
that with-the information before them the House was not in
a position to adopt the measure as proposed.—( Tory cheers.)
He had read the Report which had been laid on the table,
and he confessed that he had been much disaapointed—it was
very unsatisfactory.—( Hear, hear.) But although he made
that admission, he did not think that they ought not to give
the Bill a second reading.—(Hear, hear.) It was perfectly
true that upon data so vague he could not support the Rill.
Suppose, it were agreed to, the right of voting would be very
different -in different parts of Ireland—it would be very diffe-
rent in the union of Scarrig to what it would be in those
of Lurgan and Longford. —( Hear, hear.) There was scarcely
two of the valuations in conformity with the law of the land ;
they migl.t, therefore, be set aside, and the result would be
that while they had given the right to the franchise
on the assumption that it would be more .widely extended,
they might find by an alteration in the valuation a very great
change had taken place which they had not intended. But
still he did not think that was a reason for not reading the Bill
a second time, for it was in the power of Parliament to obtain
a fair valuation throughout the whole country. If they agreed
upon the principle, then it would be the duty of the House to
introduce clauses for the purpose of causing a new valuation in
all flip unions of Ireland, and upon one universal principle.
He would have such a valuation conducted by the sanction
and under the authority of the Poor-law Commissioners ; he
would not allow the local authorities to interfere, because they
had shown that they were not fit to be trusted with the duty.
They might take Advantage of the provision in the Irish Poor-
law Es': -,hieh regulated the manner in which the burden of
014.6:7-rate was to be divided between the landlord and the
tient of a Ceritairfpbt.,Pe voting ireicrht elaaw,94
landlord. But the present was not the time to discuss the
manner in which, if they agreed to the principle of coupling
the right of voting with the payment of poor-rates, that plan
was to he carried into effect. He for one saw no reason why
in the present Session they should not carry that principle into
effect. He was convinced that Gentlemen on both sides of the
House, if they were going to apply their minds to the subject,
would have no difficulty in devising the means by which that
object might be carried out. The object should be to maintain
as nearly as possible the number of voters at the same amount
as at the passing of the Reform Bill, and he thought it essen-
tially necessary that they should do so at the present mo-
ment. Last night he had, heard with great pleasure from
the Noble Lord opposite that he was not one of those
who wished to restrain within very narrow limits the right
of voting in Ireland. It was only what he expected from
his Noble Friend, when he recollected that for three years,
during which he had sat with him (Lord Howick), he had
been the strenuous advocate and supporter of the principles of
the Catholic Relief Bill, and of the Reform Acts :or England
and Ireland. When he recollected that, he never doubted that
the Noble Lord would be averse to any great restriction or nar-
rowing of the franchise. The Hon. Member for Cavan in a
speech, in most of which he (Lord Howick) concurred, showed
that nothing could be more detrimental to the prosperity of
Ireland, as so to narrow the right of voting as that it should
be possessed by the class who held property in Ireland ; and
that, in the present state of the country, nothing could be
more dangerous than to allow the franchise to fail into the
hands of the owners of the soil only, and not take in such a
proportion of the occupiers as would enable the Irish represen-
tatives to express the real feelings of all the inh ibitants. If
they were agreed that it was desirable fo avoid restricting the
franchise, and that they were of opinion that the most substan-
tial of the tenantry should exercise the right of voting,
and that the Honourable Member for Cavan only dif-
fered as to the- extent to which that should take place—
if that were the only question between them, he
could not avoid the conclusion that the time had at length
arrived when that remedy must be applied. His Noble Friend
in trying to prove that the time had not arrived had referred
to returns which had been laid upon the table of the House on
the motion of the Hon. Member for Kilkenny, and had shown
from them that there were a considerable number of voters on
the registry in Ireland. If that were really so, and that there
had been no abridgement of the franchise, he for one would be
satisfied. He adhered to the opinion he hadformerly expressed
of the impolicy of disturbing the franchise as conferied by the
Reform Bill. If the number of voters on that paper were really to
be found there, he certainly should not advocate any change in
the franchise as at present established. But what were the
facts ? His Noble Friend the Secretary for Ireland had shown
that the number was by no means so large as was represented,
and that several of the names were twice en'ered, having lapsed
on the old registry of 1832, and that a large deduction was to
be made on that account. It was distinctly shown last night
that in the county of Corkthenumber entitled to the franchise

did 'not exceed one-half of that on the face of the paper.
As the leases fell in they were not renewed; the consequence
was a considerable reduction of the number of persons entitled
to claim the franchise. He was only stating what was noto-
rious to every man, when he said that the first appearance of

those causes creating an indisposition to grant relses was in
the year 1826. It was at the general elections that year that
the first great stand was made by the tenantry against what
he considered the improper influence of the landlord. The

shortest period for which. a lease could be granted, that gave
the elective franchise, under the existing law was 14 years—
hir...o'CONNELL--Fourteen years by the present Bill, but
twenty by the existing law. .

Lord HOWICK—WeII, the existing law required leases of
considerable duration to confer the right of •voting. It was of
course perfectly obvious that the vast number of those leases
which were granted before the year 1836, could not yet have
fallen in ; they were in process of falling in, but that process
could not have reached its fullest extent. But more than that,
the first appearance of those causes which created an indispo-
sition on the part of landlords to grant leases, though com-
mencing from the year 1826, did not, till after the:pas.ing of
the Reform Bill, about nine years ago, acquire the strength
which they now possessed. It was not till after that period
that the feeling became so strong and so general as it had
lately shown itself to be. It was comparatively only
within a few years that that feeling had gained its
present strength. —(Hear, hear.) That being the case,
when they considered how long theprevious system was in ope-
ration, and when they also considered the length of the leases
necessary to grant for the purpose of conferring the franchise—.
when they considered these two things, it was obvious and
palpable to the most cursory observer, that they were only at
the very beginning and outset of that process of diminution
which, under the influence of that feeling on the part of the
landlords, must necessarily take place. Every year that went
by—he might say every month that passed—every life that
thßatutetxiyairteNdvas, ibnycriemasmedeatnhge
the
etewnht
whole
f
the dropped—every lease
disfranchisement.
of the case. Under the operation of any good system
of registration—under the operation of the system pro-
posed by his Noble Friend on that side of the House, or of
that proposed by his Noble Friend on the opposite side of the
House—under the operation of any good system of registra-
tion, he would say that it was perfectly obvious, on the face
of the papers laid before Hon. Members, that there must be
a vast diminution in the number of persons entitled to the
right of voting. It was perfectly clear that, admitting the
valuations which were lately made upon the Poor-law unions,
to be ever so imperfect—admitting them to be even more be-
low the true value than they were represented to be by the
gentleman who conducted the examination—even admitting
hat it was perfectly obvious that a vast proportion of the
tenements in respect to which the right of voting was now en-
joyed was of such a description that under a more effective
sy stem of registration the right of voting would, to a great
extent, cease to exist (Hear, hear, hear) —at the
end of a given number of yeas, according to the pro-
posal of his Noble Friend, these cases would all come for re.

consideration or revision. Acccrding:to the plan of the Noble
Lord opposite they would be immediately subjected to reinves-
gation. But it was perfectly obvious that under the operation
of a really effective scrutiny of the right of voting by any good
machinery cf registration, tbcre must be a very large deduction
to be made from the number of persons entitled to exercise the
right of voting in Ireland. But if that was the case, if the
direct and necessary effect of passing a measure upon that
•übject would be to reduce the number of voters—if there•was
also to be taken into account the feeling on the part of the