The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-04 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

The SPEAKER took the Chair at a few Minutes Le!'oro
Four o'Clock.
Mr. GLADSTONE was introduced by his brother the
Hon. Member for Newark and by Sir Robert Bate-
so,, and tcok the oaths and his seat for the borough of
Walsall.
Mr. M. PHILLIPS presented a petition from the
Manchester Dispensary, praying to be made a body
corporate.
RAILWAY BILLS.

Mr. H. HINDE moved that the Standing Order,
Number 32, relating to Railways, be read.
The Order having been read, the HoN. MEMBER
proposed that the Standing Order respecting railway
Bills, which requires that a sum equal to one-tenth
part of the amount subscribed to be deposited in the
Court of Exchequer, be modified by substituting one-
twentieth for one tenth. The Hon. Member proceeded
to say that he would not detain the Heuse by enter-
ing into arguments at any length in support of his mo-
tion ; but he would merely mention a kw facts bearing
upon the subject. The House was aware that pre-
vious to the year 1830 of the Bills that were passed for
making railways, a considerable number was confined
chiefly to the purposes of local capital ; but after the
opening of the great railway between Liverpool and
Manchester a great impetus was given to speculations
of that nature, and in the following years several Bills
were introduced into the House to enable capitalists to
open railways. In the year 1832 four Bills were
passed for that purpose, and in the year 1834
five Bills were passed for a similar purpose.
In the year 1833, 24 Railway Bills had passed through
cct haas :
m peorny.
Grand Junction, the North
that House, inc:uding the great lines from London to
Birmingham, the
In 1836, the number of a
Urdon, and the London
large, and the attention of Parliament teas
onlaiena(tlionsSou
s
d, been evaded, a particularly directed to the subject in consequence
of the Standing Orders having
in
fact, there was strong proof before the House that ey
a-
sians had been practised to enable parties to pass i
e
Standirp, Orders. Notwithstanding that twenty-nine
orders 'or the formation of railways had passed the
House. In 1837 the number of Railway Acts was
fifteen. He admitted that many of the schemes in these
three years, particularly in that of 1836, were not worthy
of the support of Parliament, and were not brought under
the consideration of the House in such a way as would
enable them to be proceeded with. Out of the large num-
ber brought forward 44 did pass the House of Commons,
and although there was no particular protection, there
was not a single one of them could be called a bubble
Company, and in proof of it he could state, that of the
forty-four twentv-one were at the present period
actually fiinisl.;!,l, tin w,.ro pa t ia!ly opened,
nine were in progress, and four not commenced.
Two of these four were Irish railways, and of the pe-
culiar circumstances connected with railways in that

country it was unnecessary for him to say any thing
Of the other two the Deptford pier and railway had
never been commenced, and the other, the Thames
Haven railway, could not be commenced in consequence
of the delay in advancing theEnstern Counties Railway.
In August 1833 a dtanding Order p seed the House,
requiring that a longer notice should be given than
heretofore, and in July of the following year the standing
order was passed, requiring a deposit of 10 per cent.
and both these came into operation in 1838. After
the passing of these two Standing Orders there was a
remarkable decrease in the number of Bills presented to
that House. In 1838 only two Acts of Parliament
for new railways were passed, in 1839 only one, and in
1840 not a single Act for a new line passed the House.
Surely that looked like putting a stop to them al-
together, and it would appear, that in taking steps to
prevent fraudulent schemes, they had prevented the
carrying on of wholesome plans. Among the
Bills passed within the last three years the
Edinburgh and Glasgow one had been before
Parliament the previous year, and therefore
the Standing Orders did not apply to it, and another,
the %Vest Derby, had beerein progress of formation by
another Company, and that also was exempted. The
only Bill, therefore, which could be termed one for a to-
tally new line was cne for a short line in Devonshire,
near Torbay, which was not quite three miles in length,
so that, in point of fact, only one Bili had passed since
the Sanding Order to which his motion referred. Ile
did not mean to object to the March notices, although
he had, in common with many others, objections to
these notices, but he referred particularly to the
order :which required the deposit of 10 per cent.
He did not believe that the Standing Orders relative
to the larch notices had had the eff:ct of p:crenting
these being giv. n, because, in point of fact, in 1838
there had been 35 such notices given, in 1839, 29, and
in 1840, 30, shessing that these notices had not been
much decreased. It might be urged, and not without
reason, that the state of the money market had been
one of the great causes of the small number of Railway
Bills brought forward, and no doubt that had operated
to a certain extent ; but he would remind Hon. Mem-
bers that elthough British capital had not been invested
to a large amount in railways at home, yet large sums
had been invested by British capitalists in railways
in Germany and France, and particularly that one be-
tween Havre and Parisin the latter country, besides many
speculations in the United States. Having disposed
of the reasons why so small a number of railway bills
had been brought before the House within the last three
years, it only remained for him now to meet the objections
of Hon. Members, who thought it of little importance
whether railways should continue to progress or not, and to
these hc would use the strong argument that British
capital was being absorbed in these under takings in fo-
reign countries. Some time ago it might have been a
question whether every large town should have a con-
nection by railway with the metropolis ; but from what
had occurred of late years, that was a point on which
there could be now little doubt. He would take
an instance with which he was familiar, namely. the
Great North Road. It was true there was a railway
from London to York. but instead of being a benefit to
the large towns in a direct line it was the reverse,because
in many instances it deviated 30 miles lieu that direct line.
A great number of persons were employed upon these
railways, but this employment, so far from being a boon
to the labouring population, would be a curse it it were
to be suddenly withdrawn. Look at the operation of
railways at this moment. During the last year, from
February 1840 to February 1841, about 600 miles of
new railway had been opened in the kingdom. On
these 600 miles far more than a moiety of the labourers
throughout the kingdom had been employed. It might
be asked if he had the means of showing the number
now out of employment, and he confessed that he had
not. The works, especially the embankments, bad been
subject to so much dilapiiation from the state of the
weather, and from the railways having been opened
with undue speed, that on many lines the same
number of labourers were employed in repairing
them, as had been employed during their for-
mation. But as spring advanced, these would be
thrown out of employment, for though there were many
railways going on, with the exception of the Great
Western and another, he knew of none that were going
on with spirit. These were the chief causes he had to
advance in favour of a modification of the Standing Or-
der ; but he would point out another inconvenience,
namely, the formation of railways without the sanction
of Parliament. If persons found generally they could
more easily make a bargain with the landowners
than by submitting to the restrictions laid upon
them by Parliament, depend upon it this system
would increase, as saving the expense of an appli-
cation to Parliament would enable them to give greater
sums to the landowners. These railways were not sub-
ject to the Act of last session for the regula-
tion of railways, which related only to those formed
under the sanction of Parliament. He would only
further state, that if the House agreed to the
proposition he had had the honour to make,
they would only place the Standing Order in
that House on the same footing as that of the House
of Lords. When these new Standing Orders relating
to railways were passed, a communication was made
to the other House,:nnder the auspices of theNobleLord
then at the head of the Board of Trade to assimilate the
Standing Orders of the two Houses, and he believed
there was no other difference between the Houses than
that the House of Commons proposed a deposit of 10
per cent., and the House of Lords thought this too
much, and would assent only to a deposit of 5 per
cent. He thanked the House for the attention they
had paid to his statement, and submitted his motion
for their decision.

I Mr. JARVIS seconded the motion.
Mr. LABOUCHEHE said, that although he was
certainly prepared to offer every opposition in his power
to the motion made by the Hon. Gentleman—( Hoar,
hear)—the Hon. Gentleman was quite
_right in assum-
ing that he did not rest opposition on any wish to
discourage the progress of railways in this coun-
try—(Cheers)— provided they were real and bona
fide undertakings.—(Cheers.) He was as much con-
vinced as any man could be that it was his duty to give
v ry encouragement to the development of the railway
system, but he was well convinced that the only way by
which they could guard against a practical monopoly
on the part of the lines already existing would be by
lines more or less parallel and constructed in such a man-
ner as to offer some competition for the benefit of the pub-
lic. He trusted therefore the Hon. Gentleman would be
satisfied that if he (Mr. Laboechere) felt it his duty to
oppose the motion, he did not do so from any desire to
interfere with the progress of the railway system. But
he really was at a loss to conceive how it could be
believed that any railway undertaking could be car-
ried on, so as to afford a fair and reasonable prospect
of remuneration to the silseribers if there were a
difficulty in obtaining, a deposit of ten per cent.—
(Cheers.) It appeared to him that if there were any
difficulty in obtaining a deposit of five per cent. as a
subscriber, he should think he had little chance of ob-
taining the remaining 95 per cent. This subject
had often been before the House. The principle
had been considered by two Cammittees of the
House of Commons, who- had decided against it,
in consequence of those disgraceful gambling trans-
actions which, under the name of railway specu-
lations h d impotel upon the country.—(Hear, hear.)
It would, indeed, be with great concern he should see
the House relax their rule, which had had the most
satisfactory effect in arresting the progress of schemes
which were set up for no bona fide object, but only to in-
duce inexperienced capitalists to purchase shares and give
the advantage of temporary rises in price to the first
speculator. The House of Lords had adapted a
different principle, and the consequence was that Bills
were introduced in that House which subsequently
became abandoned, after much Ideas and inconveni-
ence to parties who were misled I.o' the projectors.
To him it toppcared impossible tNfit any parties
of character and Olistanee.could-fina.:any difficulty in
obtaining a d'e'posit Jso small au akount. But the
lion. dentlematr'aaril that fte_afact el the restriction
was to arrest thcriiiiiiress ~of•-eeilreadiiin this country,
and to send-- capititt .abraaslset levested in rail-
way speculatiOrts;infnieigisafttiiiii-6, he (Nlr. L.)
thought he foUndaecompleWanswer to that statement,
upon examining the notices of private upon which
he found in this Session already 58 notices of plans
for new railways. He ihougla:theielo're there need be
no apprehens'inte. that-parties .who had projects calcu-
lated to be beneficial to themsetveseandthe public would
find any difficulty in making the deposlterequired by the
present regulatioa e--(Hear, hear.) C.e.And he should
feel very sorrY:if,the House: should plt.tr the determi-
nation to whiclielit came after so much deliberation.
Mr. wAltlimit7ON was so far,iPrn thinking the
existing regulai* requiring the deßpsit of 10 per cent.
at all excessive; Nis convinced inall honafide schemes
no difficulty coulgietUndlti`ennferening to it. Until
that was cnacteot4oni.of straw eaiitc beforb the public
with ephemeral 101 'good nothing speculations, by
which people were induced to invest their savings in
projects that could never be attended with the least ad-
vantage to them or to the public. The Hon. Gcntli nolo
then read an extract from tl,c Committee of the
tent to
ion snaketo specify a d
posit. appointed in 1837, to the effect that the only means of
sit.i ut fora
that checking delusive schemes was to require that all parties
Billpetitioningshould
Committee be required
noin
a particular amount of deposit, and he thought that
the subsequent Committee very properly fixed the sum
at its present amount. With respect to the Hon. Mem-
ber's (Mr. H.'s) statement that the effect of the regula-
tion was to reduce the number of railway speculations,
the Hon. Gentleman had himself given the answer
when
he said that the state of the money market in the
last three years had operated to the discouragement of
those echenies.—(Hear.) Yet, no less than sixty-eight
Bills had passed since the enactment of the present
Standing Order, and 55,000,0001. of capital had been
ins ested in carrying them into effect,—(Hear, hear.)
Ho (Mr. W.) had
had the best opportunities of
• • • to the iLei its of the C8S!", and lie eras zitti•fod
inquffinL4 I • • , ; ,
feguiat.oll was the Deb. LL.L eJUILi
that thc.s. exisung
be
devised.—( Hear.)
Mr. BRoTku;RTON had been a member of the