The Sun.
London, England, 1841-04-30 00:00:00

that on the other hind you arc bJund to stand by those
principles of the Act of 1829 which are favourable to the
people of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) By that Act, intro-
duced at a time of great ferment, of great popular dis-
turbance in Ireland—at a time when, as it has been al-
ready stated, the troops of his Majesty acre employed
in suppressing disaffection in that country—you did in
distinct terms give a franchise of a very high amount,
which has since been proved to have been of a very un-
certain and indefinite nature; but at the same time it
was proclaimed in the first place that there should be
an easy admission to that franchise ; and in the second
place, that if the right cf voting was once admitted, the
voter should remain on the register, and that if the right
were rejected, and only when it was rejected, he should
have the power of appealing on questions of fact to a Jury,
and on questions of law to the Judges. You provided
also that if on the first trial his right were rejected, and if
on appeal it acre admitted, he should remain on the list.
What I now wish to say is, that the House, having rejected
a change and innovation which we thought justified by the
occasion, was perhaps more impressed with the danger cf
innovation than with a desire to adhere to the principle of
former Acts. These former Acts were established in fa-
vour of the people of Ireland at a very important period—
at a period when everything was in jeopardy and danger;
and we did net think we deviated from the principle of
strengthening Irish constituencies.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
There were others who took a very different line—
there was my Noble Friend the Member for Northurn-
berland, and my Honourable Friend the Member for
Halifax, who complained of the nature of our franchise,
who complained of the mode in which our clause was
framed ; and my Noble Friend the Member for North-
umberland in the last speech which he made, attached
very considerable blame to the Government, because as it
appeared to him they had not sufficiently conceded—they
had not shown a disposition sufficiently conciliatory, and he
stated it was his opinion that if a conciliatory disposition
had been shown, some arrangement might have been come
to by which parties might have settled this question and
tranquillized the minds of the people of Ireland. Others,
however, and amongst them the Hon. Member for Kil-
kenny and the Hon. Member for Finsbury, appeared to
consider last night that the course of the Government had
been exceedingly vacillating; that they had not adhered
to what they originally proposed, and that they would have
shown mare firmness and consistency in abiding by their
original proposal. Now when I hear statements of this
kind I cannot help being reminded of that scene
in the comedy of the " Rivals," where Falkland,
somewhat jealous of the disposition of his mistress, with
whom be had quarrelled, and seeing her about to go away,
said, " Was there ever anything so vacillating, so incon-
sistent?" But on seeing that she was coining back again,
he instantly said, " Was there ever anything so proud, so
obstinate ?"—(" Hear, hear," and laughter.) Such is, and
must be, I am afraid, the situation of this or al), other
Government; some of their friends thinking that they
ought to have done more to conciliate their opponents, and
others again complaining if they make the slightest de-
parture from what they had originally proposed. Of course
I shall not refer again to the argument with respect to
the franchise. I will say, however, with respect to that
point upon which my Noble Friend the Member for
Northumberland differed moat from the Government,
namely, the question of lease, that we consulted those who
are connected with the Executive Government in Ireland,
including my Noble Friend the Lord Lieutenant of Ire-
land, my Noble Friend the Chief Secretary for Ireland,
and my Hon. and Learned Friend the Attorney-General
for Ireland upon that subject, and they were all of
opinion that the introduction of the lease was necessary.
1 appeal to my Noble Friend the Member for Northum-
berland, whether Government would have beets justified,
with that recorded opinion, in placing the franchise upon
occupation ?—(Hear, hear.) Now, I will only further
refer to what fell from the Hon. and Learned Gentleman,
the Member for the City of Dublin. I have often had
occasion, unfortunately, to differ from that Han. Gentle-
men in the statements which he has made with regard to
Ireland, and with regard to the dispositions of the people
of England towards Ireland, and I have not concealed
that difference from this House. But I was glad to hear
that Hon. and Learned Gentleman state to-day, that it
would be a great consolation to the people of Ireland, if
they would consider that there was a large party in this
House that was attached to the interests, and anxious to
promote the welfare of Ireland.—( Hear' hear, and cheers.)
Sir, I was glad to hear that statement from the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman. For my own part, I really be-
lieve that that body is very numerous.—( Hear.) But,
Sir, that is no new thing in the history of this country,
because the part which my Noble Friend the Member for
Northumberland has taken with regard to this Bill, cannot
but remind me that, when the Noble Lord to whom be
is so nearly related was at the head of the party to which
I belong, they were content in 1807 to abandon office,
because that had proposed an additional privilege to the
Roman Catholics, and afterwards voted for Catholic Eman-
cipation when proposcd by their political opponents.
I had but little part in those transactions, but I
am glad to refer to that proof of a determination to
promote the interest of Ireland. The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman stated that the Government bad endea-
voured to protect the Irish people, and to confer upon
them those privileges of which they have been unjustly de-
prived. lam happy to hear that acknowledgment. I
have nothing further to address to the House. I
trust that at some future time all parties will be
more disposed to agree upon some measure which shall
fix the franchise of Ireland, and at the same time improve
the registration. I consider that any further discus.
sion upon the clauses of this Bill would be utterly fruitless
and would rather tend to prevent than to promote an ulti-
mate agreement. In any determination which may be
made, the people of Ireland will have no right to say
that their interests have been neglected, or their just
requests refused ; and on the other hand, that
what is done will be consistent with the maintenance
of that Constitution, with the continuance and permanence
of those institutions to which this Government and the
great majority of this House are, as I believe, firmly
attached. The Noble Lord then moved that the Chairman
do report progress.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said be thought he should only
state what was iu conformity with the prevailing feeling
of the House, when he gave his opinion that there would
be no public advantage from a prolonged discussion upon
the motion which had been made that evening, aDd he
would have abstained altogether from any observations on
the subject, if the Noble Lord had not commenced by
preferring a complaint against himself and his Noble
Friend. The Noble Lord had complained that they had
not distinctly explained their objections to his proposal.
Their object had been, from the first, to come to a fair,
unequivocal decision upon the merits of the Bill, avoiding
every thing that could prevent or retard that decision.—
(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord undertook to define the
franchise, and to amend the registration. In the measure
which be proposed he made occupancy, tested by rating,
the exclusive franchise for the county constituency.
To that proposal they refused to assent. The
Noble Lord said be did not understand what
they proposed, they contended it was for the Executive
Government to deal with such questions.—(flcar, hear.)
Still they did indicate the general principles which they
were ready to adopt. The Noble Lord did not see how it
was possible to have a franchise resting upon beneficial in-
terest and upon occupancy. They had the authority of
the Noble Lord fur that franchise in the counties of Eng-
land— ( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord in the ccurse of
his speech had spoken with an asperity somewhat unusual
to him. When he ( Sir R. P. el) recollected the mutual
recrimiaation last night between the Vice-President of the
Board of Trade and the Hon. Member for Kilkenny, he
was not surprised that the Noble Lord was a little disap-
pointed at the contrast exhibited on his (Sir R. Peel's)
side of the House. Ile ( Sir Robert Peel) had been
often charged with changing his course ; sometimes

it was said that be ad—roc—ated more liberal senti.
mews than those entertained by his Noble Friend,
at, other times it was said that he followed in scr-

vile submission. lie beard all this, however, with great
indifference, being perfectly conscious of the concord and
general union which prevailed amongst those with whom
hC acted.—( Chem.) The Noble Lord's general courtesy
must, he wa-s sure, conciliate a friendly feeling towards
him ; still, to refer to what the Noble Lord had alluded to,

the only lover whom he had been able to conciliate was
the lion. Member for Shrewsbury, and, in return for his
affectionF, he had forfeited those cf the lion. Mem-
ber for Oldham.—( Cheers and laughter.) The Noble
Lord had truly ,tate•i that it was unwise nut to attempt, by
conciliation, to effect an adjustment of thie question. In
that general principle he concurred. la this case,
however, the argument did nut apply ; no rea-
. .

can was assigned- for the alteration Wein 5/. to 81.
\
It was proposed merely for the purpose of conciliating the
objections of three or four friends who had privately inti-
mated their opinion. That was perfectly different from
conerssion t'i a hostile opposition, which could not be re-
sistcd,in order to carry the measure; concessions made in
that way acre calculated to destroy all cor.fidence in those
who made them. Had he (Sir R. Peel) proposed to sub.
stitute K 1 for Si. he would have been told that he was an
enemy to Ireland. Yet though the Noble Lord thought
it pertecly cats to raise the franchise from 5/. to 81. he
continued is use tl,e same language with rest ect to his
regard for popular tights, and their enmity to the Irish
people.—(Hear. )
Lord HO w ICK said that h:scomplaint was, that in bring-
ing forward their measure the Government, even upon their
own showing, had not proposed it in a form which
provided for the necessities of the ease.—(Hear.)
proposed by the
I3clieving that tl.e plan Government would
!cud back to the evils of the 40s. system, fully justified
the vote lie had given in his own mind, The allusions to
the historical actions of one near and dear to him was a
just source of pride to all connected %ill him. lie had been
brought up in the principles of conciliation to Ireland._
nay, of justice to Ireland, and to a full reliance upon the
loyalty and good sense of her people. These principles
were instilled into him in youth, and he adhered to them
still, and was most anximm to see all those questions relat-
ing to that country Fettled satisfactorily to her people, and,
of course, beneficially to the people of this country. But
while he bad the honour of a seat in that House, he would
claim to himself the tight of exercising his own judgment
Ds to the manner in which those principles were to be
applied.
Mr. SLA NEY could assure the Right non. Member
for Tamworth that he was not the only one who had an
objection to the 5/. clause ; there were many Gentlemen
on his side of tho House who joined in that objection.
The motion was then agreed to, and the House resumed.
DRAINAGE (IRELAND) BILL.
On the motion of Lord MORPETH the House went
into Committee on the Drainage (Ireland) Bill.
Mr. SII A W hoped, as there mere very few Irish Mem-
bers present, that the Bill would be postponed.
Mr. Sergeant JACKSON also suggested a postpone-
ment.

Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN said the Bill was ono which
affected tho whole of the landed property of Ireland, and
it was rather injudicious to discuss it in so thin a House.
He hoped he would fix it for discussion at an early hour on
some Wednesday.
Lord MORPETH had no objection to postpone the
Bill till Wednesday se'nnight.
The Slave Compensation Bill was read a second time.
Mr. HA WES moved the appointment of a Select Com-