The Sun.
London, England, 1823-05-15 00:00:00

LONDON BRID(M.

Mr. Sheriff' Lucas presented a Petition from the Lord
Maior, Aldermen, and Common-councilmen of London,
against the Longlon-bridge Bill.
The LORD MAYOR supported the prayer of the petition.

Sir GEORGE COCKBURN maid, that there i
were aini)l6
funds for building, the bridge, and principal approaches to t,
at least. for Conducting the works for eight years.
Sir ISAAC COFFIN said, that haviug bees upon the

William Hewitt was called in. He stated himself to be an
attorney in Dublin.
Examined by Col. BARRY—He remembered going to New-
gate shortly after the riots in Dublin theatre with Major Tandy,
to endeavour to identify any of the prisoners concerned in that
riot; he did not point out any one as having thrown the rattle,
but he pointed one out as answering, by his dress and appear.
ance, to the idea he had of the person whom he had seen threev
the rattle at the theatre ; was told afterwards that he was the
man; did not identify George Graham, but could not say that
George Graham was not the man.
'Witness was ordered to withdraw. Geoige Graham and
Christopher Gellogley were severally called, but did not appear.
Joseph Henry lVloore was then called in and examined.
Colonel BARRY interrogated this witness on the subject of
his examination before the grand jury.
GOULBURN objected to questions on this subject.
Colonel BARRY stated it to be his object merely to prove
that the grand jury were aware that a question of great public
interest was coming before them.
The examination was then resumed.

Witness knew, but only from public report, that a question
of great public interest was to come before the grand jury.—
Did not know that the capital charge would hot be preferred
till after the jury had been sworn. The grand jury were sworn
before this was stated by the counsel for the crown. He cer-
tainly attended in court under the impression that the capital
charge was to be persevered in.
Witness was ordered to withdraw.
Richard Farrel was then called, but did not appear.
Colonel BARRY begged to ask the Right lion. Gentleman
(Mr. Plunkett) a few questions.
The Right lion. Gentleman consented to answer them, and
was accordingly examined.
He recollected a Grand Jury being empanneled preparatory
to the trial of the Itibbandmen. lie remembered that some of
the Jurors were challenged, but did not know how many. lie
remembered an individual of the name of Waddell; had not
heard that he was objected to Fs a Grand Juror. The rules, re-
gulations, and extracts, which on a former examination he had
stated himself to have been furnished with, relative to the
Orange Societies, were certainly furnished to htm subsequently,
to the riot at the Theatre. He had seen the printed books be-
fore. These 9uestions the Right Hon. Gentleman, not consi-
dering himself as a witness in the present instance,..said he was
perfectly willing to answer, but he did not see their bearing on
the case. _ _

J. Crosby Graves was then called In and examined by Col.
BAR ftv—Wimess had been examined before the Grand Jury;
was treated with courtesy ; experienced no disrespect or Im-
patience. On going into the room he was requested to :it
down near the Foreman, and directed to state whatever he
thought material. He stated all that came within his know-
ledge to the Gantt Jury ; he was heard with politeness • he re-
collected to have heard of persons being dispersed by the mili-
tary, who had assembled round the Statue of King William ;
he did not know that it was so, but having never heard it con-
tradicted, he had no doubt of the fact • he had seen the Dublin
A lm;Ek for 1823, or rather the Register,e which might be
called tee Annals of Dublin, furnished to tle different oflicei,
aid published-by authority. He had seen 0,6 accounts of the
net, at the Theatre, in those publications. In Inc of these he
him seen it asserted, that a piece of timber bad been thrown at
the Lord-Lieutenant, while at the theatre, and in another that
al,g, of wood had been so thrown. Witness had not seen any
thing thro.vn in eta theatre which he call d a heavy piece of
dinner, or a lug of wood. The circumstance alluded to, was
w'iile witness, with another Magistrate, were engaged in re-
moving a person who had been apprehended. Me believed
that a piece of wood had been thrown. To its weight he woail
not speak. He did not think it a heavy log. He had , seen the
pie eof timber in the police-office, and had measured it, to
make the Attorney-General acquainted with its size. Being,
asked if the piece of timber were fit to be cut up into furniture,
he descrilmi it to be a rattle, such as a person would purehase
at a shop to take to a masquerade. No directions had been
given to him, as an individual, with respect to examination; or
comm. tals.-I•The following question was then put :
Walt it proposed to witness, at any time or place, to sign any
information respecting any person accused of being concerned
in the riot at the Theatre, or of conspiring to kill er murder
the Lord-Lieutenant without the intormer appearing before
him, or without examining the party as to the facts set forth in
the information. _ _ _

This question was repeated to the witness several titnes.
Ile answered it by informing the House that a great part of
the examinations were taken, not at his office, but before the
Law Officers of the Crown, from the circumstance of the wit-
nesses not liking to appear in a police office. The exami-
nations thus taken at the-Castle were sent to witness and the
other Magistr tes from time to time. The parties were sworn
to their examinations, but were not again examined as to all
the facts which they contained. Witness had in no case re- ,
fused or d:nied to sign any information or committal. He bad
not seen in the theatre the bottle which was thrown till it was
held out as having been thrown. There was then a cry of
" Shame 1" Witness went to the gallery when he found the ,
disturbance extended to the boxes. Ile had seized a 'person
m the act of whistling, and it must have been while he wrts •
taking that person to the watch:house that the bottle was
thrown. It had never occurred to him that any attempt was
made to assassinate the Lord Lieutenant while he was present
in the theatre.

By Sir J. NEWPORT.—Witness had been a Magistrate 8 or
9 years ; had seen little of the proceedings connected with the
dressing up of tb stet= of King William, an the 4th of .
vemb ; he had heard of a great noise being made, guns being
fired, and of much confusion on these occasions.
By Dr. Lu SID NGTON.—During the eight or nine years that
illonirgagid
rsisrtirlal
had itti,
bih,eaebdiluaitsl
wssunaiedhs
frombheation
witness had been a Magistrate he had never received orders
from Government to prevent a riot and confusion on the occa-
sion ofdressing up the stisaeovtu,
eedfoorsfut the Magistrates
a
n and
aat hltnur beenaedenirl,
collectedievltnievneen intercoursettosheimtwbt ;haehtal iltceeehvtbile.loledierel
rp Attention hatsre
publicact
eraeflt
lit;
,eo
lice,
t
died
Lot s 4 it had been common to make such arrangermis so far
tack as eight or nine years, or six or seven. IIC did not re-
member toy part'culnr disttirhance on the occasion of dressing
up the statue, till the occasion immediately preceding the
king's visit to Ireland. There had been usually much tiring
of guns, but he did not recollect that any particular mischief
had been done. There were at the times -alluded to Orange,
processions in Dublin, and in connection with 'these, some in-
sults had been oiThred to individuals. Directions bad anxiously
been given.to prevent such occurrences. Latterly instroctioas
more particular than had been usual bad been issued, as it was
known that dressing up of the statue was opposed to the wishes
of Government.
by Colonel I3.tnnx—.M'it.
/less was a peace officer; witness was before the Grand Jury in
jaCT:trtio.syto:ithl:2l3.6e,lrinh:letyi
brand
jinuerdy
was riot examined before the Petty Jury as a witness for the
nwo.atriellisnettiontri
ewnistilvi.eciv
waslonfine.dredpawletiniecebte hree.aurli•
ionittoslee stootornyi
Crown ; did not remember the riot at the theatre but appre-
hentledßeray Bandwieh in the. gallery; heard of u InittW
being thrown, and remarked upon it, " surely nobody would

e so daring as to throw a bottle at the -representative of Ma-'
esty or any other individual."
By Sir J. NEWPonT—LWas not a member of any Orange
-Lodge. Witness was ordered to withdraw.
Mr. GOULBURN wished to know how far it was intended
to proceed with this species of evidence. He did not see that it
was applicable to the case.
Col. BARRY said his object was to shew how witnesses had
'been treated by the Grand Jury, and evidence on this subject
appeared to him to bear on the general question.
William Irwin was then called in anti examined by Colonel
BARRY—Witness was a peace-officer belonging to the Dublin
Police Office. Was examined on the ex-officio trial ; was ex-
amined on the Grand Jury, but not on the Petty Jury; was
treated with civility and patience while before the Grand Jury.
Witness was ordered to withdraW.
Col. BARRY did not know that he ought to call more wit-
nesses that night, as those whom he next wished to examine,
were not in attendance. llrocas who had been summoned for
that day, had, he understood, been so beaten in Dublin, that he
could not come at present.
Sir J. NEWPORT wished to know when Mr. Whistler
could be examined.
Col. BARRY suggested that the Right Hon. Baronet had
-better take up Mansfield, whom he wished to examine again,
-make what he could of him, and allow him to be dismissed, as
it would be hard on die Sheriff to have his Undersheriff and
Clerk away, attending this inquiry at the same time.
Sir J. NEWPORT wished Mr. Mansfield to be detained till
i'dr. 'Whistler arrived, that on certain points they might be Con-
fronted with each other, and examined in succession as quickly
as possible in order to elicit the truth. Mr. Minsfield on a
former evening had stated that on which he thought he should
have been justified on rising a question on the subject of pre-
varication, but which certainly proved great mal-practices to
have occurred in his office.
Mr. GOULBURN considered that all comments on the con-
duct of witnesses ought to be spared till the inquiry was closed,
as under particular circumstances a very unfavourable iinpres-
adon might be improperly created.
Colonel BARRY declined calling more witnesses that night.
The CHAIRMAN thought, as the Right Hon. Gentleman
-who conducted this inquiry considered Mr. Whistler to be a
necessary witness, the sooner the Committee considered what
should be done with reirpect to him the better.,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, as no
witnesses were in attendance whom Gentlemen proprised to call
this night, the sooner the Chairman was released the better.
Be therefore begged to move that the Hon. Baronet should re.-
port progress and ask leave to sit again.
Mr. GOULBURN said one witness attended to supply a
pannel which had been called for on a former night.
Benjamin Rickey was then called in.—The witness gave in
the pannel of February, 1819, which had been missing when
he was formerly before the House. '
Examined by Mr. PLIMICETT.—Touching the number of
Corporators usually placed on a Grand, Jury after a Corpora.
tion election, he stated that after the Corporation election in
1819, out of a pannel of eighty-four persons hut one Common
Councilman appeared. The manner in which.the Grand Jurors
had answered on a late occasion had been much talked of ; he
did not remember whether the Grand Jurors had • answered
consecutively on the trial of the Sheriffs', in 1798, nor did he
aemember how they answered in the case of Emmett.
The motion of the CHANCELLOR of the ExtuEQuEit was
then agreed to, the House resumed, the Chairman reported
progress and obtained,leave for the Committee to sit again on
Wednesday next.
Sir R. HERON presented the Minutes of Evidence taken on
this inquiry.—Ordered to be printed.
On the motion of Mr. Ilitowstuow, the Or: na Jury Pannels
of 1798 and 1803 were ordered to he laid before tie house.
NEWFOUNDLAND.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that
the House should resolve itself into a Committee on the CUs.
toms Acts.

Mr. HUME took this occasion of calling the attention of the
House to the situation of Newfoundland. Last year leave had
been obtained to bring in a Bill for the regulation of affairs of
that Island, principally with respect to the Courts ofJustice.—
It was, however, felt that further information than the House
possessed at that time ought to be obtained. The importance
of Newfoundland was not generally known. In size it was as
large as Ireland, and contained a population of from 80 to
100,000 souls. Yet the manner in which it was governed was a
perfect anorrialy. This had been long a subject of complaint,
and it was matter of surprise that Ministers had, up to the pre-
sent moment disregarded the representations of the inhabitants.
Strange to tell, Masters of ships and other Naval Officers had
been appointed Judges, to expound the law, and decide be-
tween the inhabitants in all cases of dispute. It was needless
to say, that Naval Officers were not very well formed either by
Oucation or habits to expound the law of England, or to ad-
minister laws to subjects of this kingdom. In consequence of
this state of things, Petitions were presented to that House
.and to the [louse of Lords, and the Government was frequently
memorialized. One of the Petitioners was Judge Forbes,
who knew well the state of the island; and of whom he had
nothing to say but in praise. Of the other persons, the Sur-
rogates appointed by the Governor, he should be able to
prove before a Committee very different conduct. What
would the House say of a Governor having one brother sit-
ting as Judge, and another acting as Surrogate at the same
time ? Thus one brother conducted prosecutions, which were
to be decided by another. He was informed that he could
proie the greatest injustice to individuals, arising out of this
system. The inhabitants desired, as they had a right to ex-
pect, to be governed by a civil government, and not by -men
of war. He could show, that, even in an , economical view,
a civil government would be preferable. At present five or
-six sail of ships were kept up at this station, for what purpose
'he could not conceive, unless it were to allow the Captains an
opportunity of beComing Surrogates. The expences of a civil
government would be less than those incurred by supporting
such a system. One disadvantage which the Hon. Member
pressed, as arising out of the existing state of things, was their
not being able to outtish the Americans. These circumstances
imperatively called upon the House to inquire into the subject,
and therefore it was that he should move for the appointment
of a Committee up stairs. Under a different -system, consider.
able revenues might be derived from the Colonies. The inhabi.
tants complaineil that ruinous fines were exacted of them
by the Admiral, and that within the last year such fines had
been levied .by Sir Charles Hamilton. There was a most in-
jurious grievance complained of also in the tenure of land in
this colony. It was that no one could sell land without the con.
,sent of the Governdr for the dine being. This was a hardship
upon the planter which existed in no other island, and neon-
aiderable detriment to the' value of their property. After enu-
merating the complaints and the prayers of the petitioners who
had came before the House, OK Hon. Member said he was at a
loss to conceive how the inquiry could be refused. If such
.nbarges were true they ought to be remedied, and if they were
raise they ought not to remain disproved. He therefore moved
that a Select Comthittee be appointed, to take into considera-
tion the state of the fisheries in Newfoundland ; of the laws,
revenues, and of the administration of justice; and to report
the evidence to the House, together with their opinion thereon.
Mr. WIIIMOT HORTON said, that he did not consider the
lion. Member to have made oat a case which called for a Com-
mittee. With regard to the charges against the Governor, and
the'different Members of the Executive, it' the Hon. Member
-had good and proper information to go upon, he ought to have
moved for papers, and preferred the charges in a specific
'shape. A Bill had been prepared by the Government for re-
medying the defects in the administration of justice, and the
removal of the Surrogate Courts. With regard to a local
legislature, there were circumstances which almost rendered
a local representation physically impossible. There were
no roads in .the island, and during the winter there were
no means of communication on the island ; and in the Surri.
mar the persons belonging to that class who must form the
representation, were occupied by the peculiar duties of their
situation. The Bill which he was about to bring into the
House had been founded upon information obtained from the
bat sources, and calculated to meet the wishes-of the inhabi-
tants, as expressed in the petition presented to the House
two years ago, by the Hon. Member for Knaresborough. All
the causes of grievance which the Hon. Member had brought
`forward, he was perfectly able to bring them directly before'
the House, without having a Committee. It was competent
for him to do so, and that was the course which he ought to
pursue. With regard to the charges against Sir Chas. Hamil-
ton and other Officers, the Han. Member must not assume that
because he brought fiirward these charges, and they did not
meet with contradiction on the moment, a Committee was there

fore necessary to inquire into them. It could not be expected
that he
.(Mr. Wilmot Horton) should be able to meet such
• charges in any way ; because he had never heard a word of
.them before. And he must say it did not scout with his
notions of justice, for an Hon. Member to come down to that
-House and reiterate such accusations, without any knowledge
of their truth or falsehood, and upon mere hearsay evidence.
He thought the House would not support the Hon. Member in his
motion for a Committee, at a time when the Government were
about to bring in a Bill upon the very subject on which he de.
marled inquiry; anti he .Should therefore vote against it. Be.
fore sitting down,. he should state the present intention with re-
gard to the Bill he had Mentioned. It was meant to be a con-
solidation of the previous laws, with the new measures includ-
ed ; and he should move thatit be printed to stand over to the
next Session.
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR declared that he had never heard a
stronger case made out for a Committe since he had been in
Parliament. All his Hon. Friend the Colonial Secretary said
in, reply to his Hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen was that
roustas gn to bring in a bill, and that therefore the House
leaveoi itg to him. But what they wanted was information;

and the only means by which that could be satisfactorily ob-
tained was the appointment of a Committee.
Captain GORDON thought that the charges which had been
thrown out by the Hon. Member for Aberdeen, could not but
affect the private character of the persons to whom they related.
He thought it extremely unjust that the feelings of Gentle-
men and men of honour should be so wounded, upon infor-
mation of such a nature as that which the lion. Member ap-
peared to possess. With regard to the charges against Sir
Charles Hamilton's havinvnisappropriated the revenues, he
had not the least doubt but that they were wholly unfounded.
Mr. BRIGHT contended that a case had been made out to
justify the appointment of a Committee. The population of
Newfoundland was of the lowest description, and he really
thought a strong case was made out for inquiry. He did not
want to know who had done wrong but what had been done
wrong.
Mr. BUTTERWORTH ably supported the motion.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT entertained doubts whether the
Legislature of Newfound/and could be suddenly improved, but
he really thought a Committee of Inquiry was necessary.
Mr. HUME shortly replied. He denied having brought
forward any charge that he had not investigated. He called on
the House to do an act of justice to the inhautants of Newfound-
land by instituting liiquiry.
The House then divided—

For the Motion - .. - 27
Against it - .. .. - 43
Majority - - - -16
The Lancaster County Court Bill was read the second time,
and committed for Monda'

CUSTOMS' DUTIES REGULATION.
On the motion of the thiANcELLOif of the ExcHEQUER,
the House resolved itself into a Committee on the Cnstoms'
Duties Act.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the re-
solutions he intended to propose were in the nature of regula-
tions with a view to the facilitating and expediting business at
the Customhouse ; but in the cases where any slight alteration
of the duties were intended, he had prepared a schedule which
would state, not only the duty intended to be imposed, but
that which the articles paid at present, which could be printed,
and would afford Hon. Members every information in time for
the discussion of the measure.

Mr. lIUME wished. to know If there was any increase of
duty on any articles ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said be be-
lieved there was an increase on buck.wheat, which often came
into competition with barley in the breweries, and it was there.
fore thought proper to assimilate the rates of the two.
Mr.-11. G.IO,NNET wished that objects of natural history
be exeMpted from duties, and complained of the pillage which
took place at the Custom-house in plants and seeds.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER agreed that
the articles alluded to by the Honourable. Gentleman, being
intended for the advancement of .science, ought to be at a mere
nominal duty. He acknowledged that he had himself re-
ceived packages which had been pillaged, but could never
find out how it happened. There were persons acting as
agents whom he proposed should be placed under the regu-
lation of licenses, which he hoped might in some measure re-
medy the evil.
Mr. BRIGHT thought .50 per cent. too much on the articles
not enumerated.

-------------
• Mr. MA BERLY had no objection to regulation, but trusted
it was not meant, as in a former case, to have an eye to revenue
also.

Mr. HUME wished to know if there was any alteration in
the article of sulphur ?--.(A laugh.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER Said this
article paid a very high duty, los. per cwt., except to the
makers of oil of vitriol, who were allowed 9-10ths by way of
drawback, and of late years the whole duty had been drawn
back ; but as the revenue had in consequence suffered from
frauds, it was proposed to repeal the high duty, and lay a duty
of 1-10th the amount, without allowing any drawback.
After some further desultory conversation, in which Mr.
HusrE, Mr. Huaxissow, Mr. D. GILBERT, and Mr. BRIGHT
took a part,
The House resumed ; the report was brought up ; the resolu-
tions were ordered to be printed, with a. view to their being re-
committed.

The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at HALF•PAST TWELVE O'CLOCK.

A LIST OF THE MINORITY
ON SIR. HUME'SMOTION,

,
For a Committee to inquire into the Laws and Government of
Newfoundland.
Bennet, Hon. H. G. Monck, J. B. Stanley, Lord
Blake, Sir F. • Moberly, W. L. Taylor, M. A.
Butterworth, J. Newport, Sir J. 'Whitbread, S. C.
Creevey, T. Palmer, C. F. Whitmore, W.
Penman, T. Rice, T. S: Wilson, W. W. C.
Ebrington, Visct. Ricardo,, D. Wood, Alderman
Folkestone, Visct. Robarts, A. W.
Gurney, It. H. Bickford, Wm. TELLEIIB.
Glenorchy, Vise. Russell, Lord J. Hume, .J.
Marjoribanks, S. Scarlett, J. Bright, Henry