The Sun.
London, England, 1815-03-01 00:00:00

DISENIBODYING THE "cum.

Sci SAMUEL RomILLY said, he did not think it
necessary to apologise for bringing agAin under
the notice of the House a subject to which, in the.
course of the present Session, be had already called,
their -attention. If it remained exactly in the
same situation as when he last noticed it, he
should think, from its. great importance, that he
was justified in imploring the 'House to give it
the fullest conahleration ; but the fact was, that
all the circumstances connected with it were now
materially altered. At that'time more than five
months had elapsed sine,;. the signing of the Pre-
liminary Treaty of Peace ‘vith France, and we
--IVeIT also in Negociation with the Envoys front
.America for effecting a peace with that country.
This likewise had since been accomplished, and
now this country had been noit only nine months
at peace with all the Powers of the Continent, but
might also be considered. as at peace with the
whole world ; for although the ratification of the
Vi eliminary TteUty with America had not yet been
received, there .tins-no reason to apprehend that
the terms wmild-be rejected. " When he last no-
ticed this subject,. it, was asserted, that the Militia
having. been called out, find embodied under the
Act of the 42d of the King, it remained for the
Crown alone to determine, under what circum-
stonces it shOuld be disembodied. lint the tact of
a part of the remaining embodied for the
long period of 12:oe months after a general peace
the Contino:'-a- of Europe, was a thing'
unexampled since that description of force had
been first cErabliShed. The extreme importance
of this subject mist be forcibly imp:-2sF,ed Upon
every Initkd. It imposed a most scrions sNcri-
flee upon the lower orders of the people, by
separating them from their families and occu-

iecting them to all the rigour of that of the mill-
vary ; chic the rich, on'the contrary, were riot
at all affected by the operation of the measure,
which they ~tat rid of hy a pecuniary tax. It
could not be drdiul that the sacrifices oldie mili-
tia-men were olds, sUbmit led to from absolute ties.
cessitv, and the grounds for their being called
out were distinctly stated in the Act to be actual
invasion, the dain of invasion, or internal in-
surrection.'Even when the Act was first produced,
so tenacious was the Legislature of the neces-
sity of imposing restraints upon the CrOwn, that
it was expressly provided, that in no other cases
shottld this force be called out but .1) i those he-had
mentioned ; and it was expressly ordained that
-the King shoell publish the grounds tor calling it-
. out, in a Proclamation, if the Parliament be not
sitting, or if sitting, to state what occasion exist-
ed for paling the measure in force. Tnis being
the clear and incontestible nature of the law, -and
no doubt whatever being entertained upon it, he
would assert, With all perfect humility, that his
opinion is, that at this moment, the keeping any
part of the militia embodied is contrary to law.
But, besides 'this, he understood that several of
the men who bad been discharged were still ille-
gally detained. It therefore only remained to be
said, what was the construction of the law, which
involved no coMplicated intricacies. The learned
Gentleman then. entered into a full explanation of
the Act, from which he read a variety of extracts,
and I:untended., that the doctrine now held, that
when the King lied once called out the militia, .he
had the liberty to retain them embodied for •stty
length of time was illegal ; as thereby the only
eerily which the militiaman had, that his liberty..
and life might not be sported with, was the re-
sponsibility of Alinisters. No doubt a great dis-
cretion was_and ought to be placed in the C'rplyn)
as to determining when the causes for schlep the
Militia had been called out had ceased ; het wlien
it was clear to every ni*ti in the kingdom that all
possible causes bad act'ually ceased, there could
rental%) no great grseted 6)1. discussion. But if
Lis Majesty's Ministers could say that at this
Moment any one of the causes exist, with the
least appearance of reason and truth, he, would
not make this appeal to them. But he would
say, as his own opinion, that there never had
been a time during the whole course of his
Majesty's reign when the causes fur calling the
Militia out had snore. completely ceased. It Was
a maxim of common sense, that when causes had
ceased, their effects
,must cease 'also ; and he
would defy Ministers to produce any 'instance of
the Militia remaining embodied except (hiring the
existence of actual war with an enemy. _Even
at the conclusion of the last war, when nobody
entertained a sanguine belief that the peace would
be permanent, Ministers did not think themselves
justified in keeping up this force, but disembodied
the whole of it within five weeks after the Treaty
had been signed. The period was not so long
past, but that the House must recollect the con-
sequences of the ambitious strides of the then First
Consul of France, when he made secret Treaties of
Peace, and obtained large territories by invasion or
fraud ; this was between the signing of the Preli-
minaty and the Definitive Treaties. Yet it was
within a fortnight after the news had arrived, that
the Secretary of State ;:cought in a-Bill to aug-
ment the Militia, and
.urged. as a reason, that it
was necessary to infuse a military spirit amongst
the people ; and the Bill had actu lily passed, be-
fore the Treaty of Peace came under discussion.
Ministers must, therefore, hate thOught, that this
was a time When their duty called on them to
avow wliat MIS the construction of the law ; and
they then did not dare to assert the same con-
struction of it which they do now. .On the con-
trary, they disbanded the Militia, and immediately'
called theta out again. The Learned Gentleman
then proceeded to comment upon the opinion
lately given ',by the Law •Otlieets of the Crown,
who, on being applied to for Temoving all doubt
as to the constrasetion of the Alct, -had transmitted
their opinion to the Secretsery of State, who had
sent it to the Commander in Chief's .Office, from
whence it had been circulated amongst the Com-
manding Officers of the Militia regiments. lie
contended that it was the duty of the fsawOfficers
to argue such a subject ; and that. it was not right
to take their mere opinion as an authority for re-
moving all doubts upon it : they should have acted
the parts of advocates between the Crown and the
People, and not that of Judges. Yet amongst
those who had given the decisive- opinion to
which he had alluded, was the Chief Justice of
Chester ; and other Judges, who might after-
wards be called upon to try causes in which their
own .opinion had been previously formed.—
. Ile then read the circular letter alluded to, and
denied that the construethin of the Act by the
Law Officers was just, that there was nothing
imperative in it as to the time when the militia
should be embodied, after they bad been once call-
ed out. To what a situation, Le observed, should
we be reduced, if we suffered the word expediency
'to usurp 'the place of that of necessity—(Hear,
hear') Minister's thus may take men away
from their homes, and-keep theta fromitheir fa-
milies, and employments, .not as long as is necessary
for the safety of the country, but as long as they
thought expedient, and there is no remedy but the
responsibility of Ministers. Was that, "he would
ask, a sufficient protection, or even a sufficient
consolation for the People ; There was no country
whatever in which the ,Ministers of the Ciown
were not respOnsible for their conduct ; but
what greater (Langer could await a country, titan
that Minister's should do what they think
expedient, merely upon their own responsi-
bility ? Our ancestors, by the very construction
of the Act, had thought it .necessary to guard
against such an encroachment. But it must now
be nuderstood, that his Majesty's Ministers may,
at the present moment„ according to the opinion
of the Attorney and Solicitor Geueral, call out the
whole of the Militia that had just been disembo-
hied, in consequence of any turn the negociations
may take at Vienna ; for the keeping of only
°n
Militia regiment. on foot-enables them to call out
all the rest, Nrithout any of the
.safeguards which
~ the law had provided for the people. The L
earu-
ed Gentleman then went into an elaborate ct;mpa-
ri3oll between the Local and the Regular Militia,
and concluded with. observing. that tha-

terms upon which they %vere ought not
.to cease also .? The tendency of the doctrine now
laid down was, to leave every thing hifilliensome
under the Aa, and, take away.every thing berte-
ficid; for they maybe thus cruelly retained in the'
service till ail the petty sytabbles amongst the fo-
reign Powers, and the pitiful ambition of those
rrsons in their contentions for territory shall 'lc:
satisfied ; nay, tVell till' the great force v,iiich
nisters think it necessary to keep on the Conti-
nent, shall be recalled home. The Learned (Jen-
tleman then concluded with moving,—

" That. nine months baying elapsed since the signing of
the Definitive Treaty Of Paris,• and this Country being now
at peace with the WhOld world, no causes are now in ex-
istence for continuing any part of the Militia embodied."
Mr. BATHURST cosplimenos.l the Learned Gen-
man for having very fairly stated his own opinion'•
upon the subject ; but it appeared that he had •
only taken- a partial view of the matter, and had
omitted to notice one part which he had, perhaps,
thought not necessary to the question. He had -
not alluded to our exact situation with respect to
America, as .we •were actually at war with that
power when be made his former remarks ; and he
must know that we are carrying on the war at
this Moment, and must continue to do so until
peace is completely attained. With respect
to oar foreign relations it has been thought
necessary to keep up large
.military forces, till
every thing is settled on the Coutineitt ; and thus
our situation, so far from being ditfeeent from
what it was when. the Learned Gentleman spoke
on the subject before Christmas, it is in feet exs •
actly the same.- -The propriety of keeping our.
forces on the Contiueat is a topic on which other
considerations are.existing. Ile thereforethought
that the Learned Gee-dent-an had varied the point,
because, before he did draw
.rlistinction :)&![ wc:en
the spirit and the legality of the act; but at present
his remarks could not be considered as a fair con-,
striiction air. Ile (Sir S:Romilly) has admitted,
that in the words of the Act, there was no limita-
tion to .be found as to time, and lie had core
reedy described the circumstances under which-,
the Militia might legally be called out ; but he.
(Mr. outburst) contended, if it had been designed
that the,litia should not he kept embodied. after •
the cause which
.originally called them outslad•
ceased, the settle caution would have been obServ-
ed in providing for their being disbanded, as was.
thought necessary when describing the circum-
stances under,wl.iich they were to be etnbodied.
The had been kept up undee existing cir-
cumstances on the responsibility .of Ministers..
The i-lon. and Learned Gentleman had worked
himself up to say,- while speaking of the responsiss
bility of Mini,4ers., that the' Ministers of every-
country were responsible. • Did the Hen. and
Learned GehtleMan reallymean to assert this ?
if he did, he (Mr: Bathurst) could wish to know
what he meant by. responsibility. If he meant
they were responsible to the Despot whom they.
served,- he would admit the fact, but he would
deny that they were responsible to the people.
The measure of keeping Op the-Militia did not in
this instance rest wholly on the responsibility of
Ministers, as it had the sanction of Parliament,
who, six months after the peace was concluded,
Lad sanctioned their remaining embodied, by
voting -in supply the stuns wanted for their pay,
clothing, &c. That llouse had negatived the
motion brought by the Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man; 'and immediately after voted for the con-
tinuance of the Militia for two Months: longer.—
Under these circumstances, be. contended, this
measure in question, •therefore, (he repeated it).,
was not one which rested on the mere responsi-
bility of Ministers, but on the _admitted necessity
of the case. With- the,view the lion. and Learned
Centleman took Of the subject, why, instead of ..
bringing forward abstract leiestions, did lie not
move the House to address the Crown to recall -
the army now abroad, or to withhold the sup-
plies demanded to pay and maintain them ? The
Hon. and Learned Gentle Man had seemed disposed.
to assume that the country could only be•in dan-;
gee of invasion .from a oeighbouring country.—
Would it be maintained that means were not to
be taken to guard against-such an event, not only
when we were at war`with France, but also when
we were at war. with Spain, with Russia, 'with
Denmark, or any other country ? But the Mili-
tia had not been called out merely when invasion.
was actually expected. At the time Lord North
called out the Militia, he.had stated invasion to
ben Mere bugbear. The principle bad been ad-
mitted, that the Militia were to be kept embol-
died to enabre the•G6vernment to, sehd out the
regular army, when this because necessary for the_
security of the country., The propriety of using
the Militia in this manner must be acknowledg-
ed ; for ought a nation like this to keep her ar-
mies in a state of inactivity, till an ambitious
Monarch, her enemy,' having conquered Moscow
or Vienna, was enabled to tarn. all his forces to
her-subjugation ? If it was legal to use the Ali"-
litia, that'the regular force might be 'sent on fo-
reign service, it must be, felt Ministers, under-the
present circumstances of the country, were justi-
fied in not disembodying it. Though peace was
signed, we were not yet in a state of peace with
America, and a considerable British force was at
present necessarily employed on the Continent of
Europe. This situation of things made it expe,
client to keep the Militia embodied after the war
was' considered to be terminated, and doing this
Ministers had the concurrence of Parliament. He
defended the. conduct of Ministers in Continuing
to keep up some particular regiments of Militia
which had been ordered to be disembodied. This
at the time was faund expedient ; and did the
Hon. and Learned Gent. mean to say it was the
duty of Ministers to take the opinion of the Judges
on the subject, before they decided on such a
measure ? With the opinion Of one of his Learned
Friends (the Attorney General), the lion. and
Learned Gent. had quarrelled on account of his
being a Judge. This was a little remarkable,
after he had expressed a wish that the opinion of
the Judges should be given on the subject.--
He had also objected tsi the appointment of the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman to one of- the situa-
tions he had the honour to boa This appoint
!vent he defended at some length, and stated the
two situations to have been formerly held at the
same time by the late Lord Kenyon, who he be-
tts..-sd ss, st_ _ r

Militia cm:cc called cat, agalu contended, alig;it
legally be kept embodied by Ministers so long as
/the sittultion ofithe country made such a measure
expedieut. The argument of the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman when speaLing of the Peace with Ame-
rica, if he were disposed to take it up, would go
to,-justify .Ministers in keeping up the Militia in
time .of Pcace, lest America, or France, or,soine
:,other should not he faithful to its engage'
ments. When the Militia was disbanded after the
Peace of Amiens, things were on quite a ditf.:fent
fOoting from what they had been in since the
Treaty of Paris. The Peace at the time that
measure was resorted to had been definitively con-
cluded. Since the last Peace was signed, great
questions had still been pending ; part of out
regular army was necessarily employed on the Con-
tinent, and to supply their place it had been nc•.
cessary to keep up the M litia. When this sub-
lea was last brought before the House, it badl
been truly stated that more regiments of Militia
would be di3embodied as •soon as this cotild be
safely done. This promise had been observeda
and the remainder would he disbanded as soon as
that conclusion had been put to the pending fle'
guciations which they had every reason to hope
and to believe would shortly take place. Head'
mitted the cause of the Militia having been called
out, but he maintained that circumstances bad
justified its being kept up. The principle 03
which Ministers had acted in this instance bad
been recognised by Varliameot in the distinetiou
made between' the old Militia and.the,Locai

in determining with respect to the latter, alter
what period it should be disembodied. The Ite-
gular Militia had always been intended to be
left to the discretion of Ministers on their
responsibility, subject to the controul of Par-
liament. He denied that this force so kept up
with the consent of Parliament %vas at all to be
compared to a standing army, and repelled the
made by the Hon. and Learned Gentle."
man as to the injury which the Militia itself must.
Sustain from the course pursued by Ministers on
this occasion. As to the evils complained of with
respect to the persongl feelings of the individual'
iii the Militia, who were kept from their homes,
_compulsorily made to serve, and subjected to the
lash, to use the words of an Hon. Baronet-7-4
(Sir S. Romilly said he had not used such words.)
----Mr.Bathurst.had uttered them as the words of
an Hon. Baronet. This was the- picture drawn
of per Sons subjected to military' discipline. Ili
the Militia, however, it would be found that not
more than one in ten served for himself ;
,rest were substitutes, serving from choice. He
did not mean to undervalue the sacrifices litt,,del
by these persons, but asserted them to be nece'''.
sary for the general good of the countryt Thep
might timink their case hard when they saw other
corps disembodied, hut this was but a compara-
tive and not an absolute hardship. They might
think it unlucky that their regiments were 110 r
among those who were disbanded but while a
partial disembodying of the militia was not tny
lawful, this could not be prevented. The Rigl4
Hon. Gentleman briefly recapitulated his objet'
lions to the principle of the motion, and asserted,
that what had been done by Ministers ih the pre'
sent instance, bail already received not merely tue`
tacit, but the positive approbation of Parliament'
• Mr. ABERCROMBY supported the motion at vale
length. The grand reason why the Militia were
not disembodied was now acknowledged to be tha
supposed necessity of keeping British troops ma
Ilauders, for the fear of a rupture of the, beg°'
ciations at the Congress. Ile 'found notbinPA'
however, in' the Militia Act _which authorise'
:heir being kept up front a view to political con;
sequences. He knew, from good authority, tfr3c
the circumstance of some regiments, being keP.,
emimidied, while others were disbanded, had bee'
felt most deiTly by the men : and it also nolo;
Qmately happened, that those regiments
• had sheu'n the greatest zeal by volunteering thei,
services for Ireland, bad been the greatest-
-ferers;by the very circumstance of their abse''
from England. •
The aon. F. DOUGLAS said, that while NT:Y. e we
re
0-4
in a state of war, the country might always be c°hr
sidered as in danger of invasion. Our coast inigla
from time to• time be exposed to the landing 3;e5
depredations of the crews- of these large frig 01
emplOyed in time American service, as well 3500
their numerous privateers, and the Militia vo
iri
be a force well adapted to protect the countrYtii,
such eases... The motion, therefore, had bis

cited opposition. • I.l**
The ATTORNEY-GEI4ERAL said, that sevcr°- °
serVations which had been made by his Holt. Learned Friend who brOught forward the presc:to
motion, made it absolutely necessary for hiln„,),
say something in vindication of that opt" ell
which his Hon. and Learned Friend had SO
commented upon. In the course of these e°4o
ments, his Hon. Friend had stated that therelc;
no difficulty in the case—nothing technical bef
.in short, nothing which any -Country gefin'ora
might not easily have answered. For his ;di
part, it was not his wish to take the meager"
h
the talents of country Members ; 1
„tat-
doubt but most of them .were perfeCtly
to form a fair opinion on the meaning of at' t 5 0.
of Parliament ; and perhaps, bad the opinie°'
many of them been individually asked, bicw
would very much have accorded' with that s'" -a'
be had given. He could have wisln'd t"'3,t ,Ther4
"i
vernment had taken the legal opinion of
lip
who stood high in the profession. f`te'oo`;
had no doubt in his own mind,.tbat if his .1:10°IP
Learned Friend had been applied to for 3,ca0:4
opinion, he would have decided in the sol.e.
as he and the Solicitor4;eneral had
guarding himself with certain distinctions* rol'egi
it was well known most Gentlemen in the irdpig°
sion-usually made use'of. He Vindicated 'de rei
against the observation which bad been ro`lfrotiot
sleeting his holding, two olliecs, on the t OP;
of the same thing havin:! been clone by aop the
as honest, and as good a Judge as ever s`ll It
Bench. He also alluded to an opinion scb.rjodges;
been given on a military point by ell the / ot)e,t
with the great I .dat .;r
Jot Mansfield lC.lue •i
ft°
the question was, " whether an Officer cool,
left the army could legally be tried by `rte qool„
Martial, for. an offence committed before .01 ,
ted the service." Their undivided opi"! (Itild

F

al Solite f i 4 . .
el„ reser utere tine! In their jeeipee eepeeity, they anotle:T neut. . t_teurti.l:tiertli d_iodg.-ilt tetopt:e.,to.
0 • ved to themselves a right of altering their call out the militia during the American \vat, be
PllliOng
_.r
had come down to the house, and stated in a 'fair
rill„ , '-.ls cr cumstanceS might require, which
P oe divul,ted in the course of the-trial. -The and manly way, that the reason of calling them
Perron •
IA a,, given r3y himself. and, the Solicitor-Gene- out was to enable our disposable force to be sent
4!)t, Lnt on the ground that the Militia might be over to America. He had thought it necessary to
beendeorlied on the yespobsibilitv of. Ministers, get an Act of Parliament for the. purpose. This
• he 4. exercised 'on that alone. Ile that opinion condoct was quite the reverse et what was pur-
-1 `ld been confirmed by -eve" thing he had sued by Ministers on the present occasion.
, 'etre e_ .
~
ee,z. 5,110% iAs he considered the motion mine- Mr. BATintesT, .in explanation, said, that, he
: . Bii. y, he should certainly oppose it. bad never skid that Gere were no complaint fienin
te 1 .11' PlcioTT said, it should 'ae his endeavour it that in
any regiments, but wee general there.
- (nlne back tall, 1 - this question to its real merits, from :no complaints. As to the epithet the Noble Lord
tte'c ',,it had widely deviated. The present urea- thought to apply to his mariner, he would leave- it
li:l.°,i keeping the Militia embodied had been de- to the jedgment of the liaise, whether, upon this
~..rs e 1 on the practice- of Ministers. He consi- occasion or any other, it
.deserved that epithet
!‘ el j(1 it of the deepest importance to the country more than the conduct of the Noble Lord himself.
that will(' act of Parliamentrelatiee to calling out Sir MAW: Wooer observed, that the very oath
~hei. 4ilitia should be well understood, and if it - taken by aMiliiiittnan, under thelnterchange Act,
thee out he thought the Legislature should take stated that he would serve not only during the
tit tvarliest opportunity to make it so. It was a war, but for such further time as the Militia should
b,,est.ti°4 of law, and he had. never yet read a law continue embodied. He %void(' ask Gentlemen,
ti
ton
wilichalirected him to look for legal infortna- whether Ireland could safely he left in her present
th,:iin the practice of Ministers. •If he did, he situation, vvitheut a strong military force i She had
etttlid say that Ministers only langlted et time hardly any thing to call a Police, 'and was 'tone
• ehr°l Parliament—they :ride it a jest, and had into different parties, Protestants and Catholics,
evailYs
..Some bugbear
.o.r other to render it oF no ; Ortingennen.: and eo 1-.orth'. lie conceived that the
kill: -I he act absolutely required that before the ; Militia were of great service in preserving the
tlive should be allowed to call out the Militia, he : peace, and he knew that whet' he was there, they
ti..lt he able to prove to his people by proclama- were often applied to in ellel+lost trivial
. tiZ'i), either that there was an invasion, imminent ' Lord STANLEY believed that the 'complaints werQ
c - 16,ger Of an invasion, a rebellion, or an insurrec- much mere general than the Right Him. Gentle-
. tr a in the coinit",
e At the treaty of Amiens, man supposed. He understood that great discou-
nt", l'Gdy was aware that the . peace was not 'lent was felt by those regiments that were,lCePt 'lt
ov to i
teit J lie of long duration, and yet the Militia Ireh.ind; ,
t.
' tied Neeeey 'disembodied
after the peace was Sir I+. lioon assured the Hon. Baronet (Sir M.
ei le' The Ihruse ought to look at the prin- Woucl) that he was much mistaken, it he Sup-
-4) e 8 on which Ministers were acting at present. posed that Ireland was generally without a police.
le Ri tilt tterie is .Hon. Gentleman ,•(Mr. Bathurst) hail He did not know how it :night happen to be ill
kno-ssed there was no da„;.!..e,. of invasion, but those parts of Irelane that he had, been in.; but lie
el klred the conduct of Ministers was warranted ! could assure hint, that in general there were a suf-
ttateeliing up the Plilitia, because we were under ficieut number of coestables iied police.oflicers,
tie„l)"ssity of having a large forte on the Con- and that the County Grand Juries had a power
thent for the purposes of Government. What, to increase the number as far as they judged ne-
L,in ~,,.
3 as the amount by, which Ministers might cessary.
stet:?"fined ?It had been argued, and it was Mr. LITTLETON thought that if the situation of
I,„``' lei the written opinion of his Hen. and Ireland was such. as 'had been describtel by. an
tr.. :.11.fled Friend, that there were no words which Hon. Baronet (Sir Hark Wood), it might be ne-
pid,r.lhen the King shall disembody the Militia,- cessary to keep up a militia force there to eubju-
eqt eb—hut surely' there must be a time, they could gate those lawless parties. , Hee however, in) ge-
rises j' kept up for ever. The Act said most ex: nem', disapproved of keeping up-a great militia
theiej' Yi,)II shell not call out the Militia, and force- in time of peace, not only on constitutional
apree /1 "lieen from their own countries, but for geounds, but also on account of the great aug-
'v,)l.... PtirlmseS.. For these reasons he_ should metitation of expellee, which was a circumstance
-In 1e0,,,
The 'kt of the motion. ' that -might not to be lost sight of in the present
vklleil
askoucrrott. GENERAL declared,. that he, deice.
Let he.'' ed to give Iris opinion as -a lawyer, would . Mr. ntt.EY AnniNoTorl wished to set an Hon.
rase oicaPable of giving an opinion for the put- Gentleman right with respret to the Derbyshire
Leither asp le
the views of any Government ; militia: That regiment hail arrived in their own
Llent te''vt'uld be hold an office from airy Govern- . county, end he believed iu the very towa of•Der-
'l"Y othed: bit,' sbpaosed wits capable of expecting . by, for the purpose of being disembodied, t.viten
t'...ese ti,,.,i,.ioan his best 'opinion on the law of the 1 the order reached them I-0v continuing longer em-
rtit to hi
'l.vsas submitted to him. The question ' bodied. Upon this .e eum mg"
ber of the, amounting;
peroive `Vas, whether it wai by the haw jua_•, to I..:0, and not to 300, as had been stated, pre-
-14„, ;lithe (0)11,1the CrOwn immediately to dishanei the . seated a. very respectful leemorial, asking an ex-.
~t'olvil to vellethei' it would be illegal . fur the . planation of the reason of this-order. The ruee
ne-ltee 4i keel): their for a time longer embodied ? modal was sent by Sir H. Torrens to the de art-
in tlieA,.,',' .:Fhis opinion,- that there was nothing ment to- which he had the honour to belong, and
itinneeia-if tlvoich neree 'it imperative on the Ci-own an answer was immediately returned. After the
kt was riot‘e'Y to dieband them, and therefore that receipt of this answer, there were no symptoms of
bete illegal illegal to keep them emeoilied for such dissarisfaetion in the regiment. As to the dianner
eteepe .
.the Crown hr its discretion should judge in which the case had been stated, for the opinion
l' If it had been illegal to 'keep nem en:-:_ :of the' Law Officers, he did not know how the
to honied;h, it would have been the duty of Ministers question • could have been put in any other way
Nediave advised the Crown to disband them inn- mote likely to elicit a full and satisfactory opinion
~
ire , ate.TY t but if there was eo law making it as to the point of law.
fet,P,riative upon them so to do, then it was • , Si! JoHN NEWPORT defended the police of Ire-
them' le eliscretien of the Crown to disband land ; but at the satire time drought that if $t was
ei:eis at stich thine as it judged proper : this ex- defective, or that Ireland was not governed as :t
all we, °f the discretion of the Crown being like ought to be, the fault rested entirely with Minis-
ii,_ we, under certain Controul; and subject to ters. -He could not avoid taking this opportunity
a _c_eesponsibility of Ministers. Ile. believed that of bearing his testimony to the good conduct of.
." at Part of the Militia had been already dis- the English Militia regiments in Ireland.
"Wed .
1e0r1,,, e, and the remainder was in a course of Mr. PEEL said, that it was not his intention to
adiort oisbanded ,as soc..!u as circumstances should have taken a. part in this debate, and should have .
Ither "it: A case had already been:mentioned, adhered to that resolution), if reference had not
oil i: etheJudges gave an opinion when called up, been made by some Honourable Members to the
Let ir, Innisters, but obsei-ved, that they should state of Ireland, in the Administration of which
teattet) a tileinselves bound by this opinion if the country he had the honour to bold a share. He
Lis e r tame before them judicially. He wat sure ft himself called upon to defend that country
feelleitearned Friend (the Attorney-General) tvosuld from are chaige which had been brought against
reel.
titbe'same manner, that •any opinion which it, that it had no Police ; and also from the asset- ,
elit'_:t. e asked of him by Ministers would not at ':tion of the.llight -Hon. Baronet, that if the Police
tionull etate on his decision in his 'judicial sittra- ! of Ireland was defective, it was the fault of Go,
la,f_. when the matter canna to be fully argued ' vernment. So far from their being no Police in
kite him.
' Ireland, there was nut a single county in it, which
tlleti:,li.(,l: INTILTON declared, that, although not in had not a Police, or might not have one, if the
e•
~te:: nit of paying compliments, he felt the sin- Grand Juries - would exercise the powers with
ee r.,`t vCseeet for the legal opinion of the Learn- 'ethic!' they were invested by law. The Police of
.4,olviouintletnati who spoke last, and was sere that Ireland was at present conducted tinder two Acts.
Nee‘e alwaYs be 'given with the most honourable. of Parliament, and under both of, them every
leed, e• At the saline time he thought that it was county in Ireland might be supplied with a Police.
le fa:?0 in human nattete not to feel a strong bias Salaries were allotted to the constables, which
ta()liii`e ir of an opinion once deliberately pro- were to be provided by
_the GrandJueles, If,
fr 04,.. .1,(1- lie could not help thinking, however, therefore, any blame was attributable', it was not
Voth]ne manner in which the 'queStion was put to the Government, but to those local aethorities
itlini''. Learned Gentleman, that it was the wish of in which those powers were vested. Theee was
Pesp'',tets to get. an answer that would suit their one observation which had been made which he
.itee ' ses. it was put quite in that way that law- could Rot pass without notice, viz. that the Eng.
ee framed a leading question. The question was lisp 'Militia were employed in Ireland to subjugate
'ltl,el4,4led, that it was almost impossible that any that country. hie- had often been accused of ex-
-411,4 answer could be given to it. Any country aggerating One disturbances which subsisted in
n °n'au of plain sense, ..t1 . , . titular Ireland, and of describing- them in too glowing
1 0wii,.1,, ~ e e,t tout air pat
IQ Iv ,ee of Jew, had only to -read the Act, and colours, but he should have been sorry indeed if
isope.?"lel immediately see that there was .nothing he had ever gone'
so tar as to state, that the ilis-
lite, `live in it as to the timeoldisbendieg the mi- affection was so great as to make it necessary to
eliej.",i,,cll-ear, hear, from the Ministcrialllenches.) employ the English Militia to subjugate Ireland.
KAearit. , int was so clear, that the opinions of the I i the Hon. Geutlenuan. thought that such was the
e. "I Gentlemen were only asked for the pile- state of that country, and, that it was owing to
4 iet.net.• being 'sent round the cow-lirelo produce the misconduct of Government, he might to bring
Leta
1,,, ,
~ , . .
ltero, lich Monsters wished. • Allinonell the forward some specific motion upon the subject,
the 'q the latv niiglit net have been .viOlaterl, and-point out such of the acts of the Irish Go-
pitleebt' l'irit and intention of the inilitie laws had ' vernment -as, in his opinion, tended to produce
eiir Niy been violeted. The opinions of the that effect, He might refer him tothe Right lion;
otent lied c 2,..
_. . ..
1 „f•
p7.'-nriLlrlan WOtild CertailllY g 0 to the ex- liaronet who sat near him, who -could inform him
k' ke d'notaininct tle't tar wilitil miGht -iv:gaily whethee the feelings of:tine people of Ireland to
,1,,,, Atilt} in time of
~,, et
__ . . ,..., .e. 1 , 0
peace, as king n's the Crown the English Militia were such as to .shew, that
INe Pr°Per-• If there was a 11100 in the . that was the object for which the latter were sent
l'N1)(' sliu i)elieved that tine militiamen had not to that country. In any case in which that Militia'
11,i'_`eitoeiceibereleased -'wheli peace. shonid come, I was employed, it was not as the. Police, .but they.
it
as ant 'oat that man would seem! 7ttp -in the - were called in by tine law to assist the Civil Power
14.t\.'Is a 1.:(147 so. Every bock,- Must feel that ; to keep the.peace—not as substitutes for, but in
r ' al,, rt non of the whole spirit of the nri- aid of the Civil. Power... The. Right Hon. Baronet
tee se to ,
a.,! e,ilii., Keep thew embodied inn -a time of ! had said,' that the affections of the people of lee-
oit'lliq 't, when 'tone of the circumstances exist- i land were not to be preserved by force ; hut surely
lei,'lteenititLstifietl.thir being called tout. If Go- i the Right Limo Baronet would not deny that other
It)
ill (IN, 'ere 110.A7 to break faith wills the mi. 1- means had been used-to gain the affections of the
"iB.leießterling nicn might use it' as an argument ; people of Ireland ;' and it any proof were wanting,
I' . " niter from entering into that:service in be need only refer to the geueroes aud liberal ,de-

Dies

1 sre.! width sti:kti boots tttankested to Olaf biotc
interests in that. great measure which had for -so
many nights etincraged theie attention, evett by
tho'e who were the enemies of that measure.
Lnrd G. CAVENDISH said,. that there had been
great mistakes about the Derbyshire regiment. It
never' had reached the county of Derby in order to
be disembodied, and had proceeded no further than
Banbury.
After a few explanations between different Gen,.
tlemen that had spoken, Sir S. RoMILLY replied)
and the House divided—
For the motion, 76—Against it, 179.
RESOLUTIONS ON THE PRICE OF CORN.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER MOVedy
that the Report of the ResOlutions relative to the
Price of Corn he received, and that the Resoin-
[ions be read a first and second tune.
Mr. CALCRAFT regretted, that what he con-.
ceived to he an imperious duty, should compel
him; in.the present exhausted state of the House,
to trespass on their patience, by observations on a
subject which had already Undergone so protracted
a discussion. In his view, however, of the deep
and extensive importance of that subject, and
with the opinions which he entertained, he trust-
ed he should he excused, whilst he endeavoured to
convince the House of what appearedlo him to be
indisputably clear, that the protecting price named'
in the Resolution waSgreater than was Warranted
by the evidence contained in the Report. As tar
as Ireland 'was concerned, indeed, he concurred
with every Gentleman who had spoken in these
debates, that it waS'most desirable to supply the
wants of this -country from the produce of Ire-
Jana, as far as was consistent with the troderate
and reasonable price of our necessary subsistence.
With this condition, h'e wished to see Irish culti-
- ration remunerated to the utmosi possible extent.
There had been unfortunately but very little in-
formation produced by time Committee with regard
to the expenses of time Irish grouter. Mr. Wake-
field was of opinion, that 70s. would he a suffi-
cient inducement. It was' to be recollected, that
the climate of Ireland Was less- favourable, from
its moisture, for the production of superior wheat,
and that time .geeater part of her population sub-
sisted on a different kind alood. As far as related to
England,he could find no one witness %vim o suggested
more than 80s. and none so much,except on the sup-
position that rents, wages, and taxes were to re-
main the same; Some even on this assumption
took a lower price than 80. Had those echo in-
troduced this measure shewu that the charges in
question were to continue unaltered ; or rather
(lid not tlp. House well know that time taxes were
al‘eays lessened, that time price of labour was re-
duced, and that every article of exp-ence had be-
come cheaper ? It was• impossible he could wish
to see the situation of the landed interest dete-
i iorated ; but was, it not obvious that when prices
were universally falling, and taxes were already
diminished, rents' also ought to experience some
reduction ? H really thought some sacrifice of
rent ought to be made by the land proprietors, and
this he apprehended might be very well done
without detriment to the revenue of the country.
Dividing time gross prodnee of the farmer into
font rents or the yearly value of 4001. he thought
that each rent might, wider the present change of
circumstances, bear.a deduction of 10 per cent.
With this view he should subtract 10 per cent.
from the protiosed regulation of 80s. and trove
-as
an amendment the substitution of 725. The

the rcr.int.'Cil:::6l,lo.l6l, 11i reFi.oti had she yr% thins
necessity of fixing it at 80s.; but his Rigirt Hon.
Friend (Mr. Huskisson) had now stood forwqrcl
as the. champion who should prove, that the f
mer could not be protected under that sum. .1.4
(Mr: B.) 'had given great offence for spe:dzir.g
plai-nly. upon the subject of rent ; but taking., at
farmer AL 10001. a,-year, and lowering it to 5001.
to say that he could not then afford to sell his
corn eheaper, was complete sophistry. He thought
the House: should touch the question of price•%vith
as much delicacy as that of tent. There was no
less than four out of the 16 witnesses that were
-agrictiltivtists. who stated their opinion of. price
under 805,., That sum was formed upon the. sup-
position that rent and taxes would contirn the
stune:;
.hut-if those charges were to be reduced,
they. admitted that 80s. %vas beyond the rice
Which was necessary to the •protection of the far-
mer.: He concluded with declaring, that he-would
oppose the original Propositions in every stage of
_proceeding:
Mr. W. QUIN and Mr, P. CAItEY were in favour
of the highest price.
The question was then loudly and generally
called for, and the Gallery %ri:s cleared.
The divisiun was 15.4 to 55—Majority, OD.

The Heise
,then adjourned at Three o'Clock
this morning,

AMERICAN PAPERS.

GEORGIA,-MILLEDGEVILLE, 16.

truth was, in his judgment, that not only had
price's and taxes fallen in amount, lint the very
effect of this sacrifice, by making Corn cheaper,
must affect the prices of all other commodities_
If the price of Corn had not always regulated that
of labour, it had been owing to our late unnatural and
peculiar situation , both with regard toour currency
and taxation. The landed interest would find no
disadvantage in beholding a tranquil and content-
ed'peasantry—a pefiple satisfied with the conduct
of the opuleut proprietors, and ascribing, if distress,
arrived, the evil to bad crops and .unpropitious
seasons ; not to the great or exorbitant rents paid
by the tenant' to his landlord. It had been stated
, that bread ought to be at a shilling the quartern
loaf, when \5/heat was at 80s. the quarter; and
this had been made by 'an Hon. Gentleman a pro-
vision in an act of Parliament. But to speak legis-
latively and practically were different things, for
at the present' moment, when the last average
..price was 645: the quartern loaf in London was
only one farthing short of a shilling. The. pro-
posed rise of the regulation price from 635. to
80s. under all o he existing circumstances, he con-
sidered to be immense ;- it was at the rate of 33
per cent. Here the Hon. Member at some length.
commented on the evidence of Mr. Mont, and
others of thgwiinesses examined before-the Com-
mittee. He concluded by moving the insertion of
•
" 72 shillings instead of 80:"
Mr. HtismssoN•contended, that it was unten-
abje to assume that the permanent Trice of corn
would be as high as the prohibitory price, at
whatever point this Was fixed. Our recent
.expe-
rience of the operation of the law as it now stood,:
ihewed 010 fallacy of this position. The protec,
tion hitherto 'afforded had always come tardily,
and foOn short, of the real price which could
alone afford an adequate remuneration to the
grower. It was not the rise of rents, but the in-
creased deinand, that created the necessity. The
fall of rents would attend the fall of prices.—
Rents could not rise by anyeombination of land-
lords in a communitfof 17 millions. He hoped
to hear no more about monopoly. Proceed with
the measnre, and if peace were permanent, the
natural consequence would follow in the lowering
cif rent. •
Mr. ROSE adverted- to the evidence' respecting
Ireland, which had stated 70s. as a protecting
(hay.,

EAtract of a Letter from Major-General Mclntosh, to Gv•
rerror Early, dated Camp Hope, Dec. 12.
" MaiOE Dale arrived at Colonel Hawkin's last
evening, brings the following intelligence
Fifty or, sixty British vessels. have arrived at the
Balize (month of the Mississipi) General Jackson
bath marched for New •Orleans. The infantry
from all quarters of this district wefe- marched iti
die sante direction. Major Blue, of the 39th,
with abont 15 -or 1600 mounted men, Choctaws,
Chickesaws, and 'Creeks, were to march on the
Ist inst.' for Apalachicola, in pursuit of the Red
Sticks, and their allies."

_ .
Mr. W. SMITH argued very ably against the
measurei and

Mr. 13vP.t. replied, stating that the production
of Corn was the imainfacture of Ireland as much as
the manufacture of Linen ; and every argument
iu support of the latter would equally apply to time
foimer. Ireland had a claim to our protection be-
yond any foreign country. We ought not to shut
our doors on her, but afford her that protection
which she had given to.us when we most required
it.

Mr. BARING would not trouble the House, at
that late hour, with d word upon the general Fin-
ci

/Hit :;111111,0 2 to cif "Doc nr;nr. (let

GEORGETOWN, DEC. 28.--;-In consequence •of
the letter from General M'lntosh, published is
the Georgot Argots, much real .solicitude exists for
the fate Or NeW, Orleans. Supposing Jackson's
army to have
.heir in the Creek country at the
date of M'lntosh's letter, he would have 400
miles to march before arriving at NeW Orleans—
this distaoce he could not move in less than 30 or
35 days; so that he could not reach New Orleans
before the 12th or 15th of January.. Should this
happen, there is little hope of his Lein;* in sea-
son to save New Orleans.
.No position within the United States is more
capable of being defended at a smaller expellee and
with a smaller force than New Orleans. The
4ispatches from Ghent by the John' Adams,
reached Washington the Bth of October ; bi
this ship information was received by Govern-
ment, that an expedition against New Or-
leans might- be expected. As the letter from
M'lntosh reached Washington from the Creek
Country in four
.days, instructions sent from
Washington after the news from Ghent might have
reachedJackSon by the 22d Oct. by tvh ich,instead
going against. Pensacola, which he invaded and
took on the 7th NoveMber, he might have been
ordered to march immediately fox New Orleans,
where in this case he would have arrived about
the 22d November, a week earlier the,n the ap-
pearanve of -tte enemy at the mouth of the 'Mis-
sissippi: But there is no reason to believe that
any such orders were promptly dispatched; and
here again,
.as in the case of the attack upon
Washingt-on; although Government was apprized.
of the enemy's approach for. more than two
months before his appearance, no seasonable or
sufficient preparations were Made to resist and re,.
Washington was taken, and the public esta-
blishinents'datroyed. New Orleans may now be
in possessiOn of the enemy,' the difficulty to expel
him fratri which will be tOund to be as great as
to foree him from Castirte.
Washington, Castine, New Orleans, with or•
dinary vigour and foresight, might have been ef-
fectually defended--tlie fate of the former is known
to•us ;L-that of the latter is all but despaired of.
IVhen-and where are our disgraces to end ?.—(Fe-
deral *Republican).
It is .rumoured, and generally believed, that the
President on Friday, Dec. 16, made the following
nominations' to the'Senate :
Benjamin W. Crowinshield, of Massachusetts,
to be Secretary of the Navy of the United States.
Wm. Eustis. late Secretary at War, to be our Mi-
nister to' Holland.—Natidnal Intelligencer.
RICHMONDi DEC. s.—An,express came at ten
o'clock „last night, and brings the disagreeable
news that the enemy were live mile* above (a.
port of Virginia) Tappahannock, supposed to he
2500 streing.-600 men are detached, viz. 20J
from this city, and 400 from the camp below.
Another letter from Fredericksburg states,
that the enemy, have burnt the Court-house,
jail, Collector's Office, Clerk's Office, and a large
Warehouse at Tappahannock, and carried off stock
and negroeS to a large amount."
IN THE DELAWARE.--All the British force bag
left the Delaware, and gone to the Sout:iward.—
It consisted of the Spencer, 74 ; Pactolus,
and a tender. They-sent—oil shore 15 prisoners
hnfrirs. c.1;1‘,.1

w~Az~

BRUSSELS. AND _IRAN X-FORT PAPS U.S.

8RV5301.43, Ciadc in the A:c•nr-
ing —The fate- of our country is fixed ; this day
will be for ever the most remarkable epoch •in
our annals. We are free and independent after
so many years of shivery-we again become a na-
-1164 0, Providence ! who does not recognise
the decrees' of thy eternal justice ? This happy
news is announced to the inhabitants by the ring-
ing of bells and the discharge of artillery. , •
The following is an extract of a letter from
his Royal Highness the Prince Sovereign, dated
Feb. 23, 1815, addressed to his Excellency Count
de Thimncs de Lombize, Commissioner General
of Justice, performing the functions of Secretary
of state

" Sin—The dispatches which I received yesterday evening
from Vienna inform me, that the great interests which have
long employeßhe Congress have been regulated to the general
satisfaction, and that by the unanimous consent of Austria,
71tessia, 'England, France, and Prussia, all those parts of Bel-
gium, which formerly belonged' to the first of those Powers,
have I;een placed under my Sovereignty, excepting some por-
tions of the territory of Lemberg and Luxemburg, and under
sorne mociiseations im respect to their two Duchies. We re-
tain on the right bank of the Meuse a slip of territory only
sufficient to insure to us the entire enjoyment. and the free
raeigation of that rive; ; and the ancient Bishopric of Liege
is among the Countries which will compose the new MOtiar-
chy of the Low Countries. You w:11 readily appreciate the
nappy effect which those arrangements will have upn tin!
I:tininess of the-People, whom Providence has called me to
govent, and whom, w:.-at : have alzeady !'een able to lo for
them, under less favourahle clrcumstances, must ser-,•e•as'a
pledge of my conztant soliMiu,le for their true inte...ests."
'VIENNA, FEE. 13:---This evening Lord Castle-
reagh sets out to retura to England. Never was
such activity remarked in the Corigress. - One
meets only people with bundles of papiUT-in-t-lveir
pockets or under • their arms. They run, they
drive, in artier to. finish as many tiling& s Fossihle
before the departure of the Noble-Artrclor,
and to furnish him with ample matter fear his re-:-
port to Parliament. His: Lordship took .leave at
Cnttrt yesterday evening. It is thought that all
the regulations relative to the different vretcosions
will be decided on to-day. Very active negocia-
tions are observed to he carrying on Witt) Hanover;
rim land seems to have made some arrant meats
*gainst the interruption of the male succession U.)
etc. Throne.