The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-26 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, MARCH 26, 1847

whatever had been made out for the proposed increase
of the ex-officio guardians. There had been no
cases of fraud or wanton prodigality established
against the elected guardians, that they should
now be swamped. While they had regularly at
tended to their duties, from their connexion with the
mass of the people, they were better able to understand
their wants and provide for them. Throughout Ireland
there were 2,600 Protestant magistrates, and but 410
Catholic magistrates. This would show how
the proposed arrangement would operate. It had
been already shown that this difference in
numbers operated most injuriously in the working
of boards of guardians. The Honourable Member
referred to the proceedings of the North and South
Dublin Unions, and other Irish unions, in illustration of
the bigotted conduct of the ex officio guardians under
the present law. If they, therefore, increased the
number of these guardians the evils referred to would
be greatly increased. The Noble Lord at the head of
the Government, in introducing the Bill, had expressed
a hope, that in future, parties in Ireland would be con-
ciliated towards each other, and would act for their
country's good. The sentiment was very creditable to
the Noble Lord, only he was sorry to say that
there was little eround to expect its realisation.
If he was required to give an illustration, he might refer
to the so-called Irish party, who had met together with
every appearance of doing something for the benefit of
Ireland, but who were now broken up. If he had felt
—as they, the Irish Members in that House did—
the strain of the present distress in Ireland, he would
have called upon the House to appropriate the funds of
a church of a minority, a very small minority in that
country. The Hon. Member for Kinsale (Mr. Watson)
had brought in a Bill to repeal a part of an Act of by-
gone years. The Bill only related to a very few statutes
which could be construed as nothing but an insult to the
members of the Catholic Church. These words were
neither more nor less than superfluous verbiage for any
other purpose, for they had lost all effect as a legal en-
actment ; and yet these gentlemen came down, and both
spoke and voted against the abolition of this last shred
of worn-out bigotry. And these were the men into
whose hands they were about to commit the guardian-
ship of the poor, and the education of the children of
the Roman Catholic population! Although they had thus
obtained a predominance in Ireland, they yet had been un-
able so far to command themselves as to refrain from
adopting this means of tyrannising over the majority of
the people of that country. The Roman Catholic Mem-
bers were in a small minority in that House, and they
had very little hope of carrying the amendment of this
clause; yet, if it were not carried, he would give the Go-
vernment notice, and that frankly, that they would be
giving rise to a religious agitation such as they had
never yet seen, for the Irish Members felt deter-
mined to protect the helpless people over whose
interests it was their duty to watch. If there was
any advantage of salary, of emolument, or of trust,
in Heaven's name let it be given to the Establishment,
but let them not depress the Roman Catholic people.
There were two amendments ; one provided that there
should be a separate chapel, and the second was
the supervision of the education of the children of the
Roman Catholic population ; and if they passed the
Bill as it now stood, he warned them that they would
be sowing the seeds of a religious agitation which it was
sickening to the heart to anticipate. He had now passed
over the most painful part of the subject. Unfortunately,
he had very large details, but into them he would not
now enter ; and he would now turn to the political
effect of this ex-officio clause. If the Government
pressed this clause in its present shape they would be
giving the Irish landlords the opportunity of sealing up
their pockets more closely than ever, and if it were per-
severed in he gave the Hon. Member for Stroud (Mr. P.
Scrope) warning that he would fail in both of his ex-
pectations. He would fail in obtaining the collection of the
rate, and he would fail in the repression of those agrarian
outrages which bad always resulted from these imposi-
tions on the Irish people. It was his firm belief that so
far from repressing these outrages, it would have the
effect of increasing them, and not only would the assas-
sin be alert on his midnight prowls, but he would be
seen in open day ready to commit those murders which
were equally apalling to the mind and discreditable to
the law by which they were occasioned. He trusted,
therefore, that the Government would not persist in
the adoption of this clause without first referring it to a
Select Committee to inquire into the effects which were
likely to follow its incorporation into the Bill.
Sir G. GREY agreed with the Hon. Member for Kil-
kenny that the rights of conscience of the people of Ire-
land should be respected, and everyreasonable precaution
taken against their infringement. In proposing this
clause, however, the Government never dreamt that it
would have the effect which the Hon. Gentleman anti-
cipated. He regretted that the introduction of it should
have given occasion to a discussion involving religious
considerations. He respected his feeling of attach-
ment to the Church to which he belonged, and he
agreed with him that every proper precaution should be
taken against its members being subjected to any in-
fringement of their religious liberty. But her Majesty's
Government thought that the religious difference's which,
existed in that country would be removed by the pre-
sent law. The Hon. Gentleman rested his objection to
the clause on religiousgrounds, but he drew his inferences
as to the probabl working of the clause from the actual
state of things in Ireland at that moment. lle stated
that, speaking generally, the greater number of ex
officio guardians in Ireland were Protestants ; and the
consequence would be, that tyranny would be exercised
over the inmates of workhouses who were Roman
Catholics, by the influence of these magistrates. He
thought that, by the alteration proposed in the clause,
here would be far less opportunity afforded for
the exercise of religious interference.—(Bear, hear.)
By the operation of the clause the present partial se-
lection of ex-officio guardians would be put an end to, as
the Roman Catholic magistrates who might be resident
in the union would have the privilege of becoming ex-
officio guardians, In Englarld all the justices re-
sident in the union were ex officio guardians,
and it was thought, that when it was pro-
posed to increase• the burdens on property for
the relief of the poor, it was but right there should be an
increase in the representation of that property on which
would fall a large proportion of the rates. In the
case of all tenements above 41. one-half of the rate, and
in other cases considerably more than one-half, was paid
by the tenant, and afterwards deducted from the rent.
He trusted the clause would not be productive of the
effects anticipated by the Hon. Gentleman, but if so, he
thought it much better to meet the case by a special en
actEnent than by any indirect means—by limiting the
number of ex-officio guardians.
Mr. SHAW did agree with the Hon. Member for
Kilkenny, that the clause would have the effect antici-
pated by him. He deprecated the introduction of any-
thing having a tendency to introduce religious discus.
sion. With regard to the censure of the Hon. Gentle-
man, with regard to his opposition and that of some
of the " Irish Party," to the Bill for the removal
of the disabilities of the Roman Catholics introduced by
the Hon. Member for Kinsale, he wished to state that his
vote on that occasion was entirely influenced by his convic-
tion that the arrangements made in 1829 ghoul I not be al-
tered. All magistrates should be ex-officio members of the
boards of guardians; and he intended to propose, at a
Future stage, an amendment having that object in view.
He objected to the Government plan of not malting all
the magistrates in an union ex.o.llicio members of those
boards.
alr. BELLEW had always been in favour of such a
poor-law as the one proposed by the Government. Ho
considered, however, that the amendment would be pro-
dueti fe of much good on account of the great dissimilarity
between the number of Catholics and Protestants.
Sir J. WALSH said that in his opinion the religious
differences in Ireland would not form an insuperable bar
to any proper administration of the law. Hon. Mem-
bers came forward and said that Ca'.holics and Protest-
ants could not sit at the same board without mutual
jealousy. Such an argument WAS erroneous, for what-
ever might be the difference ,of religious opinion, he
was sure that measures had been already taken by the
House to remove that feeling. He admitted that with re-
gard to es-officio guardians, those who were so appointed,
from their station and education, took a very leading part in
the active administration of the affairs. Such a fact was
sometimes deprecated, but by no means justly so, for it
was generally desired by boards of guardians that such I
should be the case, as considerable benefit and assistance
was derived from their interference.
Mr. S. CRAWFORD said, he wished to bring the
attention of the House to the real bearing of the ques-
tion. That he considered to be was whether or
not the landlcrds of Ireland, from their past and
present conduct, were entitled to claim any in-
fluence in the board of guardians or whether such would
be more likely to lead to a better working of the system.
Now, he would wish to know what right they (the land-
lords of Ireland) had to demand any greater influence
on these boards than other individuals eligible
for the office of guardian. On a late occasion
he had brought forward a resolution which
contained the assertion that all the evils of
Ireland were to be traced to the system adopted by the
landlords of that country. In support of that assertion
he had adduced facts which Hon. Members had never
attempted to controvert. He was happy to hear an
Honourable Gentleman assert that the interests of
the landlord and tenant were identical. That was a
principle upon which hitherto the landlords of
Ireland had never acted. There was no guarantee
from their past conduct that the landlords of Ire •
land would administer the law in the manner in which
the people of this country would wish it to be admi-
nistered.

•of ill-feeling and insubordination. No step could
be taken to make the Government more unpopu-
lar than forcing such a Bill through the House.
He would tell the Government, with the greatest respect,
that this clause would prevent the peaceable working of
the measure in Ireland.
Mr. FITZGERALD was quite ready to adopt
the principles of the Hon. Member for Dublin
(Mr. Shaw), and trusted the Government would
reconsider this measure, and put this clause
into a modified form. The Hon. Member for
Northamptonshire had divided the Irish landlords into
two parties—that which was desirous of seeing all the
measures of the Government passed, and that which
was called the Irish party, and of this party he would
say that it had no object to serve in impeding the mea
sures of Government. That party had issued certain
resolutions which he had certainly signed—(" Hear,
hear," from Mr. Shaw and others)—but in being
a party to those resolutions he must profess that
he was no violent revolutionist, although he was a
repealer, and he was therefore in no way adverse
to any measures which were likely to benefit Ireland.
He was not consulted on the deputation which waited
on the Noble Lord opposite (Lord G. Bentinck), but he
might take that opportunity of expressing his admira-
tion of the conduct of the Noble Lord, although he might
not be able to accede to his views. But he would say,
in joining in the opinion of a late writer, let them return
to the people their Church property, let them return
all that had been taken away, and they would
have ample funds not only for the sustenance
of the Church, but for the support of the poor, and for
the education of the people—(Hear, hear)—and this
would have the greatest effect in putting down religious
differences. But there was another subject to which he
desired to call the attention of her Majesty's Govern-
ment, and that was the provision which was made under
this clause for the support of a stipendiary magistracy,
and the payment of the several officers under the Bill.
The operation of the Bill was defective in many respects,
and he thought it was advisable to make some better
provision than this, especially for the safe carrying out
of the Bill.
Mr. LEFROY was quite satisfied with the clause in
the Bill, and did not think it would operate in the way
described by the Hon. Member for Kilkenny.
Mr. CALLAGHAN did not think the magistrates of
Ireland so unobjectionable in their bygone history as to
warrant the Government in conferring on them any
additional privileges. He wished the ex officio guardians
were removed altogether. He should for these reasons
support the amendment of his Hen. Friend the Member
for Kilkenny.—(Cries of " Divide, divide.")
Mr. V. STUAR I' supported the amendment.
Major LAYARD considered that the clause would
materially operate against the proper carrying out of
the Bill. The amendment he considered ersolutely ne-
cessary, as there were in Ireland 2,065 Pro-
testant magistrates, and but 410 Roman Catholic
magistrates. „ Iu three of the counties there were
no local Roman Catholic magistrates. He thought,
therefore, that the people of Ireland would be dissatis-
fied with the Bill if the clause remained in it. In his
opinion it was the " Chandos" clause of the.. Bill. He
deprecated the conduct of the Noble Lord (Lord G.
Bentinck) in coming down and making gross charges
against the Government.
Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN supported the clause as
it stood.
Mr. B. ESCOTT rose, but owing to the noise that
prevailed and the cries for a division, the purport of his
observations could not be heard in the gallery. Finding
the House disinclined to hear him, owing to its impatience
for a division, he moved that the Chairman report pro-
gress. The galleries were cleared, but as the Hon.
Gentleman withdrew his motion, the Committee imme-
diately divided upon the amendment, when there ap-
peared 7

and the statements made, by the Right Hun. Recorder
fur Dublin.

Mr. SHAW explained.
Mr. V. SMITH would not divide upon the clause
after what had fallen from the Right lion, the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer.
The amendment was negatived without a division, and
clauses 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, and 17 were agreed to.
Mr. SI-lAW wished to know whether Government
would proceed further with the Bill that evening ?;
Sir GEORGE GREY replied that he was ready to go
on up to half-past six.
Mr. SHAW said, in that case, he would proceed to
move his amendment, of which he had given notice—
namely, " That the justices resident in the Poor-law
unions shall be ex-officio members of the board of guar-
dians of such unions."

On the clause being brought up,
Sir G. GREY said that the Irish title to property was
placed precisely on the same footing as 'English pro
perty in this country. The next clause provided for the
deficiency that had been felt by the lion. Recorder for
Dublin. But there was one difficult, and that was
the vagueness which existed as to the declaration for
where a curate was necessary and where he was not.
If he would allow the principle of the law to be assimi-
lated to that of England, he had no objection to accede
to the change.
Mr. HAMILTON said that the Ecclesiastical Com-
missioners had to pay the rates on the monies which
they collected for that purpose, so that an incumbent had
to pay to the poor-rates twice for his income. Ile had
to pay for the amounts levied for the improvement of his
glebe house, and again for the stipend which he gave to
his curate. He thought, therefore,_ that it would be
well if the Government would take this matter into
consideration, for by changing the plan they would pre-
vent a great injustice.
Mr. MACARTHY saw no reason why those succeed-
ing to encumbered states should not have some allow-
ances in the same way as a clergyman who succeeded to
an encumbered living.
After a desultory conversation,
Mr. SHAW consented to leave the matter in the
hands of the Government, and withdrew his amend-
ment, on the understanding that'he should bring it for-
ward, in order that the necessary words might be in-
serted, on the bringing up of the report.
The clause was also withdrawn until the bringing up
of the report.

Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN postponed some clauses he had
to propose till the bringing up of the report, as did also
Sir D. Norreys and Mr. Villiers Stuart.

Lord G. BENTINCK said before they went out o,
Committee he wished an answer to the statement he had
made about the rations supplied to the destitute Irish.
Mr. LA BOUCIIERE, in answer, said he believed the
Noble Lord had obtained his information from e
daily newspaper. Now there was a manifest error if.
the list published in that paper. He had since seen the
official list, from which it appeared that the rations of
bread were *lb., instead of Ilb. as published. The
rations were, fbr one person, 1 Ib, of bread ; or in lieu
1 lb. of biscuit and 1 lb. of meal, or flour ; or 1 lb. of
soup, with lb. of bread, biscuit, or meal, or flour.
This would show that the amount was not what had
been represented, and he trusted the explanation would
satisfy the Noble Lord.

The House then resumed ; the Chairman reported
progress, and obtained leave to sit again on Monday next.
The Fever (Ireland) Bill was brought in by Mr. LA-
BOUCHERE, and was read's first time.
IRISH DISTRESS—NEW BRUNSWICK.

Mr. HAWES brought up a dispatch from the Go-
vernor of New Brunswick, stating that the Council had
voted 1,250/., in aid of the Irish distress. This was the
second subscription from our colonies for the same
purpose.

For the clause 154
For the amendment
Majority in favour of the clause
Mr. SHAW then moved," That the justices resident in
he-poor-law unions shall be ex officio members of the
board of guardians of such unions ; and whereas, under
the provisions of the said Act of the first and second year
of her Majesty's reign, tithe composition is liable to be
rated only as and with the hereditaments upon which
such composition is ci,arged, and it is expedient thrt
such provisions shall be amended ; be it therefore
enacted, that from and after the passing of this Act, com-
position for tithe, or rent charge in lieu thereof,
shall be deemed to be a separate rateable hereditament
under the said Act, and shall be distinctly rated as such.
And be it enacted, that in all cases of rent charge in
lieu of impropriate tithes, the annual amount of such rent
charge, after deducting therefrom all rates, taxes, and
public charges, if any, imposed on the owner in respect
thereof, shall be deemed the net annual value thereof ;
and that in all cases of rent charge in lieu of tithes,
payable to any spiritual person, the net annual value
thereof upon which the rate for the relief of the poor,
under the said recited Act or this Act shall be
made, shall be deemed to be the amount of such rent
charge or composition, as ascertained and valued by the
Ecclesiastical Commissioners of Ireland, for the purpose
of a certain tax or assessment upon Church property,
under an Act passed in the third and fourth year of the
reign of his late Majesty King William IV., intituled
'An Act to alter and amend the laws relating to the
Church Temporalities of Ireland,' after the deduc-
tions and allowances therein directed to be made, and
after deducting also the portion of the assessment or
tax chargeable in respect of such rent charge, under the
said Act. And be it enacted, that the rate made upon
each rent charge or composition for tithe, shall be paid
by the person in the receipt or enjoyment thereof, and
may be recovered by all the ways and means by which
any rate made on any lessor may be recovered. And be
it enacted, that from and after the passing of
this Act the net annual value of all rateable heredita-
ments, other than rent charge or composition for
tithe shall be deemed to be the rent for which, one
year with another, the same might, in their actual state,
be reasonably expected to let from year to year, all the
rates, taxes, and public charges, if any, and the probable
average cost of repairs, insurance, and the other ex-
penses necessary to maintain the hereditaments in their
actual state, and the rent charge or composition for tithe,
being assumed, for the purpose of estimating such annual
value, to be paid by the tenant."
Lord J. RUSSELL said, that as the Bill at present
stood there could not he a majority of ex officio guardians,
and the jealousy apprehended by the Hon. Member
would not exist with respect to their numbers. He
hoped that the Hon. Member would withdraw the
amendment.
Mr. SHAW oonsented to withdraw the clause.
After a few words from Sir W. JAMES,
Mr. J. O'CONNELL moved, that after the word
" magistrate," the words " whether for county or
borough" should be inserted.
After a few words from Mr. Smith O'Brien, Mi. J.
O'Connell, and Mr. Morgan J. O'Connell,
Mr. P. 110 WAIM said he thought the alteration in
the poor-law would give more power to the ex• officio
guardians than any other measure.
Mr. O'CONNELL said that, after the decision which
had been come to, he did not expect much support to his
present proceeding. Still, that the people of Ireland
might know who were for them, and who were against
the it rights, he must put them again to the necessity of
another division.
1 he gallery was then cleared for a division, when there
appeared—
For the clause
Against it
Majority in favour of the clause —ll2
Oa the 12th clause being put,
Mr. VERNON SMITH said that under the 78th
clause, there was a power to enforce the orders of
the boards of guardians, and he did not therefore see
that there was any security for obtaining the rates. Ile
should therefore move for the insertion of words which
should refer to the 78th section of the Irish Poor-law
Act, and giving them power to levy the penalties
sectiondealbeotftetrhatthaAnct.le
givingi
power madethought
p t h
ta o)adissolve ethis
n was
thee a
rboards r 1 greatdos2 od f
guardians, which, under
the present phase of the Bill, the Commissioners would
possess. At present there was no efficient control, and
the penalty imposed was not likely to be in any way in-
strumental in enforcing the provisions of the Act. He
would rather, therefore, that words should be introduced
for that effect.
Sir G. GREY said the only difference between the
present clause of the present Act and that to which the
Hon. Member had referred was, that in the former case
the Commissioners had simply the power of dissolving
the boards of guardians, while under the present Bill they
could, without dissolving the board, impose a penalty of
201. for non-compliance with their orders.
Mr. HAMILTON said that the Committee should not
legislate on this Bill as if the boards of guardians in
Ireland had not done their duty. By a report of the
Poor-law Commission for the year ending 31st
December, 1845, it was stated that the general condition
of the unions was never more satisfactory. When such
general censure was poured out on them, he thought
it right to state this fact.
Mr. V. SMITH thought it was strange to see such a
large amount of arrears in the rates if the boards of
guardians had done their duty. Either this was the fault
of t Le boards of guardians, or the rate:could not be raised in
Ireland. They must adopt either the one or the other
alternative.

The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned at a Quarter to Seven o'clock.

RAILWAY COMMIrrEEs

(YESTERDAY.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
GROUP I.
The Select Committee, appointed to consider the merits of
lie Bills comprised in this group, re-assembled in Room 30
at the usual hour this morning, Lord Granville Somerset
in the chair.
THE SOUTH-EASTERN SCHEMES.
Mr. Robert Stevenson confirmed the testimony of Mr.
Bidder. In point of gradient, speed, and regularity, there was
no comparison between the lines of the South-Eastern and the
Brighton Companies. The Brighton lines rose 40 feet a
mile, and with the New Cros incline, it would be lin pos.
sible to work them without two engines. With
regard to the argument of making the lines
upon bad gradients, and relying to the improvements
in the locomotive to overcome the difficulties, he entirely
disapproved of it, because it would be leaving the railway
system just where it was now. Such an argument went to
affirm that bad roads ought to be preferred when improved
or better horses could be obtained. With the gradients on
the Brighton line the communication with Dover would in
winter occupy the same time that it did now on the cir-
cuitous route, while in summer the saving would be very
trifling, and then it would be only to light trains. Punctua-
lity in the running of trains depended mainly upon good
gradients, and to convince the Committee of the importance,
be might mention that nine accidents out of ten arise
by want of it. An engine adapted to bad gradients would
become comparatively useless upon the good. The Mid Kent
line would be much used for continental express and sudden
trains, and it was of the last importance that. the gradients
of such line should be the best the country would afford.
With regard to the branch to Bromley, he considered it would
be a great inconvenience to place that local traffic upon a
through line. As an example, he might mention that it was
admitted on all hands that it would be highly inconve-
nient to accommodate Croydon traffic through the me-
dium of Brig!iton trains. He., did not lay out the Croy-
don branch so much with the view of putting Portsmouth
in direct communication with"Woolwich and other North heat
districts, as to placing the South-Eastern Company upon an
independent footing with regard to the Brighton Company.
At present the South-Eastern obtained access into the metro-
polis along the Brighton line, anti in the event of the two
companies quarrelling, the Brighton Company would be in a
position to shut the South-Eastern Company out of London
altogether. But independently of these considerations, a line
must sooner or later be made to Lewis!tain and Bromley, and
even were the two companies friendly, he was confident, upon
a consultation, they would determine to make this new cheap
line to Croydon. At present the South-Eastern Company
had to hand over to the Brighton Company the whole profits
of the traffic, minus the expense of working, besides the main-
tenance and expense of six miles of the Brighton
line, between Reigate and Croydon, and therefore
should it ur.fortunately happen, that for the sake
of a foolish system of competition, the Committee
should grant the Brighton Mid Kent line, they- ought, in jus-
tice to the public and the South-Eastern Company to concede
the new Croydon line with it. So impressed was he with
the conviction that it was not only dangerous but ridicu-
lous to think of tunnelling through the Broughton-hill,
which the Brighton line proposed to do, that in the outset he
announced his intention to the South-Eastern to decline being
the engineer to any line that pursued such course, and, upon
his recommendation, that insurmountable obstacle to a direct
North Kent line had been avoided. With reference to an
extension of the line from Canterbury to Dover, it might
eventually become necessary when the success of the
South-Eastern Company had become well established,
but at present there was by no means sufficient traffic
to justify the construction of such a line. He was
quite willing, however, to leave such a question
to be decided by the Board of Trade. He had never heard
of a more monstrous proposition than to tunnel the Brough-
ton-hills between Canterbury and Maidstone in the manner
proposed by the Brighton Company. Su.l a line ought not
only not to be made, but it never ought to have been proposed
either to the public or a body of proprietors. He disposed of
the question of competition by declaring that where coin-
bination was possible competition was impossible. Amongst
corn dealers, where the traders were numerous, competition
was not only practicable, but wholesome; but in the case of
two railways the idea could not be entertained for a
moment. Indeed the two parties here did not differ upon
that head. The Brighton Company did not want competi-
tion, but they wished him to give up what he considered was
the best line, and then they were ready to consent to amal-
gamation. Of course he refused to concede that.

The CHAIRMAN—Suppose these lines were to be delayed
for the present, could lines with better gradients, and better
calculated to serve the purposes of the public, be obtained?
Mr. Stephenson—Certainly not. For the last three years
I have been ransacking the country, and let whatever lines
be passed, or whatever delays take place, I am quite con-
vinced the continental traffic will ultimately settle down on a
line running as the South-Eastern Mid Kent proposes to do,
through the Durant Valley.
Mr. Stephenson was cross-examined by Mr. Talbot, but
nothing material was elicited.

The Committee adjourned shortly after four till twelve
o'clock to-morrow.

STANDING ORDERS COMMITTEE.
The Standing Orders Committee met yesterday at the
usual hour for the dispatch of public business.
EDINBURGH AND PERTH RAILWAY.
This case, which it will be recollected stood adjourned
from Tuesday last, again came before the Committee.
A great number of witnesses were again examined; after
hearing a variety of proofs
The Committee adjourned without coming to any decision.
Great interest was manifested throughout the day to ascer-
tain the result.

PETITIONS ON PRIVATE BILLS.
HOUSE OF COMMONS.
(Before Mr. Examiner MAY.)
UNOPPOSED.
PORTSMOUTH PAVING, LIGHTING, AND IM-
PROVEMENT.
This was a petition for additional provision. The cus-
tomary formal proofs were completed.
:HOLYHEAD HARBOUR.
The customary proofs were also in this case submitted,
approved of, and completed.

Mr. SHAW defended the boards of guardians. He
thought, with regard to the rates, that in many cases it
was wholly
tution which prevailed. He was of opinion that,
impossible to raise them, owing to the desti-
undcr the out-door relief principle lately adopted,
it would be found wholly impossible in many
parts of Ireland to collect the rates, and he now warned
the House of the results which would attend the ope-
ration of this Bill. The law they wore then about to
pass could not be carried into effect in the western coun-
ties of Ireland.

Mr. W. S. O'BRIEN said that a great deal of dissa-
tisfaction had existed on this very measure. He thought
the proposal under consideration would do a great deal
of harm. Such a system of class legislation must be
the cause of much ill-feeling and dissatisfaction.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
Bill was as near as possible founded on the law of Eng-
land. Now the law in this country in respect to ex-
officio guardians had been found to work well, and he
did not see why the same system should not operate as
advantageously in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) From a
considerable amount of experience of the working of '
the English law, he was sure the measure could
not be worked without a comiderable infusion of
ex-officio guardians. If the present law was carried
into effbct there would be a greater number of meetings
of the poor-law guardians than before, and he was per-
suaded the elected guardians could not sufficiently attend
to the business. Hence there was a necessity for a
considerable number of ex officio guardians, who would
have leisure to attend to the administration of the law.
From a full consideration of all the circumstances, he
thought the clause ought to stand in its present form.
Mr. D. BROWNI opposed the clause, because it
would give a decided preponderance to one class in
Ireland—the landlord class. Ho opposed it also
b ea.u,e it. was a vitiation of the electoral priaciple.
He would much rather have t coercion Bill than
such a Ball as the present, inasmuch, as while coercion
was to put down insubordinatiuu in the country, the
present measure was one that would cause every kind

OPPOSED.
EDINBURGH AND NORTHERN BRANCH FROM
BURNTISLAND TO DUNFERMLINE BRANCH, &c.
(No. 2.)
The further consideration of this case was postponed until
Friday (to-day), when the usual proofs will be entered upon.

Mr. ARCHBOLD said the expense of these poor
houses was not very great.
Mr. POULETT SCROPE said, there were many
great proprietors who had not paid one farthing of the
money for which they had been rated, and he thought
that the payment of their arrears should he enforced.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
thought his Right Honourable Friend would find
it very difficult to oppose this Bill on such
grounds. If any Honourable Gentleman would take
the trouble to read the correspondence on this subject
he would be e.mvinced of what he asserted. Hy trusted,
therefore, that his Hon. Friend would not persevere in
his present course.
Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN could not, in justice to
Ireland, act in any other way than he had done.
Mr. P. SCROPE said, if any one had read the blue
books respecting the workhon.ies aid the raising of the
rates, ho would find the truth of what he had stated
about the non-payment of the rates. All that he had
stated about Lord Lucas a,.d others would be found
perfectly true.
Mr. SHAW could not 2gre,e with the Hon. Member
who had just spoken. 1
Dlr. BELLE entirely differed from the view taken,,
w

REGISTRY of BIRTHS and DEATHS
DURING THE WEEK E\ DI NG MARCH 20.
Deaths registered in the week. Births registered in the week.
Males ... ... ... 547 Males ... 772
Females ... ... 567 Females 745"

Total .. 1,114

Total ... 1,517

FATAL COLLIERY ACCIDENTS.—TWO MEN KILLED.
—On Saturday morning as one of the colliers cin-
i ployed at Coltness Ironworks, named Gturgo Dogal,
was getting into the cage to d-scend to his work, the
engine is thought to hive been nitortunately turned the
wrong way, and took the cage up insteAd of letting it
down, by which the poor roan V;a3 precipitated to the
bottom, a distance of about 70 yosrl, and killed on the
spot Deceas, d has left a widow and three young chil-
dren to lament his loss. Another accident occurred the
same m )ruing at Clelland ;(dli,,ry, by 1-I(*,•town, when
a rninQr of the name of John Marrow was killed in de-
scending the No. 4 pit, °tying- to a stone fading on him
when going d-wn. Deceased bt a left a widow and
child.—Glasgow Constitutional,