The Sun.
London, England, 1847-04-13 00:00:00

SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENINCT, APRIL 13, 1847.

NATIONAL EDUCATION.
SPECIAL MEETI C
NG OF THE COMMON
COUNIL.
WEDNESDAY, MARCH 31.
After the transaction of the ordinary business,
Mr. FRANCIS BENNOCH rose and said, it was now
his duty and his privilege to introduce to that Hor,our-
able Court a motion of surpassing interest—one which
relate d to a matter in which was involved the haul loess of
millions, and the success and the continued prosperit),
he believed, of the empire. The motion had bean on
the business paper for a considerable period; but he had
e, n pre vented by various matters from bringine it
earlier forward. Had this .not been the case, the flor-
p t'on of London might have, ere this, mecuseest toe
—4,ra
great question of education, which was now agitating
the tublic mind, instead cf discussing it at a period
when some of the effects which might have been derived
from such a discussion might have been lost. This was
to be attributed to certain unhappy circumstances to
which he could not further allude, because they were
well known, and duly appreciated by the members of
the Court. But it was a great gratification to know
that, in discussing the question of education, they could
approsch it deliberately and consider it calmly, without
agitation of an obnoxious character, and without any of
those feelings which would prevent them from doing full
justice to the question. The motion which he had to pro-
pose was:—" That the state of education in Great
Britain and Ireland is confessedly deficient and lament-
ably defective. That the existence of so much ignorance
is a reproach to the nation, and greatly to be deplored;
ti.esinuch, as poverty, destitution, misery, and crime are,
not the consequence of it, seldom found dissociated
... As the means hitherto employed for the '
,ncrease of knowledge among the people have
proved insufficient for the necessities of the popu-
lation, thee assistance of the State becomes an
imperative necessity.—(Cheers.) It is not only
an act of justice and mercy, but also to the interest,
safety, and security of society, that no subject within
these realms should longer continue without the oppor•
tunity of mental enlightenment, as a means of moral
elevation and mental improvement. That an humble
address, based upon the foregoing considerations, be
presented to her Majesty the Queen, praying that
she will be graciously pleased to exercise every
legitimate influence vested in the Cremn to urge
forward in Parliament such measures as shall pro-
vide for the general education of the people." The
motion partook more of the nature of a petition
than of an ordinary motion, and somewhat argued the
question. He had so worded it in order that no one
might attend without being perfectly confident of
the whole of the arguments, which he should feel it his
duty to make. With him it was no new question, as it
was one which he had discussed and debated on all
fitting opportunities during the last 12 or 15 years—
nay, more, he was instrumental, and in fact responsible
for a course of lectures which were delivered in London
ten years, by a gentleman who was at that time one of
the most popular writers on the subject. He was glad he
was enabled to bring tour or five Peers, and twelve or fif-
teen Members of Parliament to listen to them ; but he
had to regret that he was unable to interest the then Lord
Lord Mayor on the subject of the promotion of educa-
tion. He wrote and waited upon him; but he would
neither countenance by his presence, nor yatronise
with his name, the series of lectures on teas impor-
tant subject; believing, as he said, that they were in-
tended " for the promulgation of some unimportant sub-
ject some new fangled doctrine likely to disturb
the public peace and the safety of society."—(Name,
name.) He would tell them. He alluded to Alder-
man Wilson. From that time he confessed that his
heretofore profound reverence for the Lord Mayor and the
Court of Aldermen began to diminish ; but his opinions
had of late years been much modified, and there were
many who had filled the high office of mayor for whom
he eriterlained much respect. But to come to the sub
jeer. of education. The necessity for education was, h.
believed, conceded.—(ll.-ar.) There had been a demand
for education almost since the first existence of society
They recollected the saying of one whim they all reve
rented—" Go and teach all nations." It was the firs,
law of nature, for even the brutes must be tutored be-
fore they could perform their daily tasks. Thus savag
man in his turn must yield before civilised man,
a civilised man was only produced b.
tion. Were man a mere animal, he would require
, education, because his instinct would be sufficient to
provide for him his daily food, as that would be all h.
would require. But he was gifted with intellectue.
qualities, the power and knowledge of judging and 0
discussing, added to which was his moral nature, whicl,
controlled the other qu ilities, which, without
it
aid, might prove imprimis. Therefore it was evident
that any education which di:l not embrace the de vetop
meet of these three qualities, was inferior as a scheme o
national education. The labourer in the fields re.
quired probably the least education, but stilt
he required education, because it was a knowledge.
of the instruments he wielded which gave him power
over the soil he digs ; it was education that taught the
higher man gifted with a greater intellect the way to
produce the most intricate machinery—to have education
was all important—because it gave him his peculiarly
distinguishing feature. Thus in every stage of life is
demonstrated the necessity for education. By it the
early lispings of childhood are invested with intelligence.
Through boyhood that intelligence becomes expanded,
until in manhood, the student can draw from the wells of
the knowledge which exalteth, and in his retirement
hold sweet communion with the rays of antiquity, whose
spirits are enshrined iu books, and this surely is one of the
highest prerogatives of man. The motion which he had the
honour to propose divided itself into three parts—first
the deficiency of education, next the defectiveness of
education, and lastly the consequences of this deficiency
and defectiveness, and the necessity for the adoption of
some different system. He intended to compress his
facts and arguments into the smallest compass
consistent with the magnitude and importance
of the subject. To prove the deficiency of education, he
should refer to reports, and other documents of unques-
tionable data. In 1833 he found that the population of
this country was 14,400,000—that there were 3,600,000
of the population between the ages of five and fifteen—
that there were 1,200,000 day-scholars between those
ages, 2,400,000 attending no day-school—that 1,548,000
attended Sunday-schools, 548,000 only being in the
habit of attending day-schools. The result came to this,
that out of that number, 1,000,000 ;were Sunday- school
scholars, 1,200,000 day, and that 1,400,000 were in total
ignorance, without an atom of education. Thus above
one-third went to day-schools; less than one-third to
Sunday schools, and over one-third to no school at all.
More than one-third of all the children of this vast
empire, between the ages of five and fifteen, are without
any means of education whatever !—(Hear, hear.) But
the reports published in 1844, proved that the state of
education, at that time, was worse rather than better.
That was, the general character of education. The
particular character was somewhat more remarkable. In
his estimation, statistics proved everything ; but some
were of opinion that anything might be proved by
statistics ; but here they were undoubted as they were
collected by parties employed by the Government,
and by educational societies ; the results thus collected
demonstrated, that instead of showing the darkest side
of the picture, the actual state of things, previous to
these inquiries, had been much underrated. In Man.
chester, there were 50,000 children between five and
fifteen, 10,000 of whom attended day schools, 23,006
Sy,
same.aiidl7,l4ooivOeraptoteonldwedasnowoscrlieo,olasatfully Sonpallidarl,
were without the means of education. Hull, York,
arid Bristol presented the same results, and were all
equally bad. The lion. and Rev. Baptist Noel, whom
everybody respected, telt to much interest in the sub-
ject, that he made a private inspection of several
schools, in order to ascertain whether the Government
reports were, or were not, correct, and he found that
no exaggeration had taken place, and that the
state of education was as had been represented.
Mr. Bennoch read a number of other extraete, showing
the -time result. By a report made by Lord Kerry,
it
appeared that there were 2.664 parishes and hamlets
. holly destitute of schools ; ' 1,042 poseessed Sunday,
but no day, schools, making a total of 3,706 with ut a
day-school of any description.--(Shame.) It was te
palpable shame that such a state of things should be
allowed to exist. With respect to many of the rural
districts, from a return published by the Registrar-.
tGh General,
marriederthali ,s
couldiatrpspseiegafnrr
oemd their tthi
timidity—(Laughter)—as
dmoi
tne)ls,y_ oneLotruhgealpl, ftzosft theas mightpe
people!epalye
in such a situation were. apt to get exceedingly
nervous ; but why they should be timid and nervous in
the most honourable act of their whole lives,
wholly at a loss to know.—(Laughter.) It alsoewas
ap-
peared that 8,000,000 of the population could not write,
and that 5,000,000 could not read. Then, with respect
to the schoolmaster. It had been shown and proved
by competent authorities, that the care of the rising
generation was, in the majority of cases, confided to the
care of those who bad failed in ail other pursuits ; and
that the schoolmaster was the lowest, instead of teing
the highest and most respected occupation in the
kingdom.—(llear.) The greatest number of schools
in the large towns were these day and dame schools,
but from certain reports which had been published, they
would perceive how monstrously defective was the
system of education pursued in them. He found
extracts from these reports collected in an excellent
article on education in the last number of the British
Quarterly Review. With respect to those schools he found
a report of the Hon. and Rev. B. Noel, stating that—
"ln Liverpool, with few exceptions, the dame schools
are dark and confined; many are damp and dirty; more
than one-half of them are used as dwelling, dormitory, and
school-room, accomodating, in many cases, families of seven
or eight persons. Above forty of them are cellars.
"In Manchester, the greater part of them are kept by
females, but some by old men, whose only qualification for
this employment seems their unfitness for any other. Many
of these teachers are engaged at the same time in some other
employment, such as shopkeeping, sewing, washing, &c.,
which renders any regular instruction among their scholars
absolutely impossible. Indeed, neither parents nor teachers
seemed to consider this as the principal object in sending the
children to these schools, but generally say that they go
there in order to be taken care of, and to be out of the way
at home."
And with respect to common schools:—
" It was a room on the ground-floor, up a dark and narrow
entry, and about twelve feet square. Here forty-three boys
and girls were assembled, of all ages, from five to fifteen.
Patches of paper were pasted over the broken panes of the
one small window, before which also sat the master, inter-
cepting the few raw of light which would otherwise have
crept into the gloom. Although it was in August, the win-
dow was closed, and a fire added to the animal
heat, which radiated from every part of the crowded
chamber. In front of the fire, and as near to it as a
joint en the spit, a row of children sat, with their faces
towards the master and their backs to the furnace. By this
living screen, the master, though still perspiring copiously,
was somewhat sheltered from the intolerable heat. As
another measure of relief amidst the oppression of the steam-
ing atmosphere, he had also laid aside his coat."
This was a perfect sample of them all. But let them
look at the condition of the National and British
Schools-
-. The great majority of the patrons and conductors of the

from

Na!ional and Lancastrian schools which I visited, only pro-
fess to tech the children reading, writing, and arithmetic.
The hnowledge of the English language, natural history,
geography, physiology, and the history of their country, are
all excluded subjects. Upon none of those could I examine
the etildren generally, because their teachers professed the
tota Illignorance of the children respecting them. If occa •
sionally I heard that Liverpool was an island, that Lanca-
shire was one of the great towns of England, and that Asia
and America were chief countries of Europe, I was led to
expect this if I heard such grammatical inaccuracies as those
contained in the following answers to questions put by me :
Them as is good goes to heaven'—`The men as was
gazing up into heaven'—' He drownded the whole world ;'
these were mistakes which the teacher did not undertake to
correc

en these schools the scholars were poor and they
ound that they went to them ignorant and from the
want of a proper system of training, that their evil
dispositions were developed by association, and that
they were frequently led into the commission of crime,
as the little knowledge they were taught, was just
sufficient by association to induce them to commit
depredations. It would be almost superfluous
in him in that Court to refer to the
evils which arose from a want of education, but his
Lordship and the gentlemen of the Court of Aldermen
who had held the office of sheriff; had, in that capacity,
and as magistrates, been in the habit of visiting the crimi-
nals of the metropolis, and had no doubt found that
ignorance and wretchedness and crime went hand in
land. The judges referred to it; and Mr. Sergeant
Adams came forward with his monthly report lamenting
the amount of juvenile crime, and his inability to remedy
he evil. This belonged more properly to the question
:f juvenile crime than to education ; but still
it was necessary that he should refer to
ignorance and crime, as they formed a part
,f his resolution. In the valuable report of the British
Foreign School Society for 1845, he found that one-third
of the criminals of Berkshire could not read, that Cam-
e, idge and Stafford (and some of the aldermen were
connected -with Stafford), one-half could not read; in
Denbigh two-thirds were in a similar condition, and that
the half of those of Essex (one of the Council was
connected with Essex) were totally ignorant. In
Hereford, out of 385, cnly one could read well, and in
Sussex (one of those delicious sequestered agricultural
districts), out of 877, 141 did not know their Saviour's
name, 498 knew it and no more, and then only in con-
nexion with an oath; 179 bad only a confused
notion of his history, aid only 1 in 14, or 59, had
'he faintest glimmer of the Christian faith. They
had tried punishments of various kinds, in order to
leter persons from the commission of crime, but they had
ignally failed, and he hoped that they would now take
more religious means, by the aid of education, to improve
the condition of those unhappy persons. As a proof of how
much more expensive the punishment of crime was than
its prevention, he might refer to the fact lately stated by
the magistrates of Liverpool, that they selected at random
t 4 criminals, whose ages varied from 9 to 14, whose ag-
gregate commitments amounted to 133 times, or 9f times
oath, and who had cost the country 8891. ls.-8891. Is.
for punishing 14 criminals, or between 701. and 801. each,
whereas by a properly organised system of education,
the common interest of the money would have educated
30 or 40 children.—(Loud cheers.) This money was
.pent in punishing, not in reclaiming, because they had
each been repeatedly punished. Then the question
arose, would education deter from crime ?—(Hear, hear.)
Was education the cause of crime, or was its want the
cause? The argument that men of education had be-
come criminals was no reason against the education of
the people. He granted that such things had happened,
Sue still that did not prove that itwas not the duty of every
man—the duty of the nation—to give every man the
neans of advancing himself in the world. Because a ma
was born poor was that any reason why he should not
rise in the so,ial scale. that he should not have the means
if elevating himself ? fie contended that the most im-
)ortant means to that end was education. But how was
his to be done ? We see the necessity, but we are over-
*erne by the difficulties which surround it. Could they
overcome it by voluntary c ,ntributions which some people
tonsidered the great pat acea for the ignorance of the
toe people? Two opinions prevailed—one that it was
~ufficierit, and the other that it was not. But if Volun-
.tryism was sufficient, how was it that one-third of th,
~ipublion were in Cimmerian darkne,s. Certainly if it
was sufficient they must have sadly neglected their duty.
Voluntaryism was a beautiful system, but what did it
to ? It certainly contributed largely in various ways;
out the voluntaryism of the State was far more impor-
raiit; for aid by the State was but another form
of contributing money from the same source.
Voleroaryism did not punish criminals, it did not fight
heir battles, it did not provide for the poor. When it
lid all these things, then he should consider that volun-
taryism would be enabled to educate the people.—(Cheers.)
['here were probably many gentlemen in that Court,
ho had not had any large sums of money expended
ipon their education.—(Hear.) Yet there were many
who was without education, so far as the school-
lia,ster was concerned, listening and taking a p
in the discussion of this great question. Thus
several who had been thus situated had become
representatives of, the City of London ; but had theyre
rosined totally ignorant, they would not have been called
to fill so honourable a post. Was there a man there
who could not read and write ?—(Yes.) Some gentle-
man said yes, but he never had the misfortune to meet
with one who was so ignorant. Should any such be
present now, their support I am sure to have ; and should
there be those (as I know there are) who have only
received the merest rudiments of education, yet by
unremitting zeal and rectitude have become member& of
this court—their support I confidently expect, because
aerie can feel so keenly, or know so truly, ner describe
so forcibly, the sleepless nights, the perplexities, the
struggles of uneducated intellect striving under every
diadvantage to assert its power, and the difficulty in
seizing the opportunity calculated to lift him to a
superior station in society, all of which a
little more judicious training would have ren-
dered comparatively easy. He could not under-
stand any means that could be brought to promote edu-
cation efficiently without the assistance of the State.
Could the State educate, was one question, and how edu-
cate was the next. He could prove that the State
could educate. Even despotic nations had shown that
they could educate their people ; but a free country
possessed an additional advantage, as it could educate
and consolidate its power. In Germany and Prussia
education was compulsory. In America it was not so ;
but it was made very attractive. In America it was
stated as a general rule, that in the those States, in
which education was promoted by the Govern-
ment, that the most was done by the people ;
and that " wherever the Government extended
education that the people were found anxious to
avail themselves of it; where there now is little or no
legislative effort the amount of instruction is as small
as was compatible with any degree of diffusion of know-
ledge." That fact showed more forcibly that the aid of
the Government was required than anything he could
urge if he were to speak for a month. Those states
which did not receive much aid were exceedingly
ignorant. In New York education was progressing
favourably, as one-fourth of the population was receiving
instruction. The following was the state of education
in the various states:—
New York 1 p upil to 3-9 inhabitants.
Massachussets, Maine, Con- to 4
necticut - j
•
New England - - -1— to 5
Pennsylvania, New Jersey -1— to 8
Illinois - _ to 13
Kentucky - - _l—to 21
For a man to have a child growing up without
going to school, was considered the greatest scandal
that could attach to him. But if all he
had stated was done in America, why could
it not be done in England?—(near,
hear.) It was said
here that the assistance of the State would do away
with the itelependence of the people. Was it mere
iestructive to independence to look to the State for
telacation, than to feel thet we depended upon private
~,ante or public charity for it ? Many of these who
were educated in charitable institutions, found that a
Bind of stigma attached to them which often lasted to
he day of their deaths. He was reproached with it.
rhe State, therefore, was the proper and only means,
.1 whose aid a national se stem of education
.0111 d be crrried out, and the State was now
ae:drous to do it.—(Hear.) He regretted that one of
the greatest obstacles raised to the scheme was religion.
Religious difficulties were the only obstacles now placed
n the way of the Government.— (Hear.) The Episcopal
Church would have no education. unless it was placed
upon or supported by religion. The Dissenters would
have no State support, and other sects oppesed it for
"irnilar reasons ; so that between them all the nation
would suffer, unless the Government had the determina-
tion to go fully and fairly into the question, in defiance
of such opposition as that with which they were rue.
naced. The flowing tide would be stayed,
if not rolled backwards for fifty years.
Could it be for the interest of religion that
a scheme in which the happiness of the rising gene-
ration was involved should be destroyed ? It could not
be. Perhaps the best system to adopt would be a
system of perfectly secular education, making the parents
responsible for the religious instruction of their children,
not that lie was opposed to any system of religious edu-
cation, but he was anxious to obtain knowledge for the
people almost on any terms.—(Cheers.) No compul-
sion by the State could make a person change his reli-
gion. A remarkable instance of the tenacity with
which persons adhered to the religion of their forefathers
was to be found in the last report on education in
Ireland. Several children of Roman Catholic parents
were educated in a Protestant school, and in the Pro-
testant religion; but when they left they went back
again to the Roman Catholic faith. He thought he had
maintained the principles which he enunciated at the
commencement of his address, and that the scheme of
the Government was likely to prove most advantageous
—it was the best and most comprehensive that could
have been adopted in his opinion under the eircurn-
stances—(Hear, hear)—and a considerable degree of
excitement had been occasioned with respect to it. He
thought there had been a considerable degree of
crude, hasty, unreasonable calumnies, east upon it.
If he bad any objection at all to the Government plan, it
was this—that it did not go far enough. But he wished
to have it tested as proposed, and no doubt the experi-
ence which would be obtained would enable them to
materially improve it. Some said that it was unconsti-
tutional, but he was at a loss to know what could be un-
constitutional in giving the representatives of the people
—their representatives—the control of education. Then
it was said to be sectarian. How could it be sectarian,
when it supported alike every religious belief, and
every religious denomination ? If it applied only
to the Established Church, it might be called
sectarian, and it would deserve the same character if it
applied to the dissenters alone; but as it applied to one
sect as much as to another, he thought it was about the
best scheme that could be adopted. " But it is inquisi-
torial," said a third party. Why ? Wherever public
money was applied to a public purpose, there must be
public inspection. Private charities privately ad-
ministered, were too frequently seats of cor-

ru; Lion; and public Toney, if privately expended,
might be expended improperly, and diverted to I
corrupt purposes; but here Government inspection
woald keep the fountain clear and prevent any mis-
appropriation for the future. But another party oh•
jetted to it, on the ground of centralisation—centralisa-
tion the bane of Europe, the curse of France, and the
misery of the civilised world. Centralisation wielded by
a &spot was unquestionably bad, as he might attempt to
curb the will and thoughts of his subject ; but centrali-
sation in the British Government was centralisation, in
poiut of fact, in the people themselves, for in the case of
these rchools, inspection would tend to keep ti.e admi
nitration of the funds pure and just, and compel
those intrusted with them. and to whom they were
paid to do their duty. With centralisation, if abuse s
crept into the administration of the funds, they would
be immediately known at head quarters, and the person
who had misconducted himself would be at once super-
seded. To his mind a centralisation of this kind pos-
sessed much beauty, and formed one of the most im-
portant principles in the Government plan. Another
great advantage was the the establishment of Normal
schools, because bY their aid they would be enabled to
do away with that obnoxious class to which he
lied referred, who, without requisite knowledge,
pretend to teach the children of the poor ;
and in their place they would have men
with young blood in their veins, anxious for the work
and determined to perform it thoroughly, and not half.
They would get rid of the half stupid, lame, blind, and
frequently immoral old men and women, who had set
themselves up as teachers.—(Hear.) Besides, they
would know, if they discharged their duties properly,
that their old age would be spent in comfort. Much
had been urged against the plan which the Government
had proposed for the support of the schoolmasters when
they relinquished that employment ; but it was most
important that a teacher should know that he would
not be allowed to die from starvation when his
faculties failed him. Then again, he consi-
dered that instead of the whole scheme enabling the
Government to tyrannise over the people, that it would
have a directly contrary effect, and would place a great
deal more power in the hands of the people.—(Cheers.)
The highest class would at the proper time receive their
due reward as teachers, whilst the second class pupils
would become important public functionaries. Thus, in-
stead of Government situations being bestowed upon those
who had no claim to the gratitude of their country, they
would be given to those who had earned aright to hold them.
It was, as he had said, a very important matter that the
teachers of this country should take their proper position,
as he considered the teacher was more entitled to
respect than the warrior whose conquests over
foreign nations brought great advantages to this country.
The profession of the schoolmaster was higher than the
minister of religion, because the success of the subse-
quent labour of the minister depended much upon the
superstructure raised for him to work upon by the
schoolmaster. In every point of view be saw great
beauty in this scheMe of education proposed by the
Government. Another important point was, than an
educated people were more easily governed than an igno-
rant people. With education, one might appeal to a
man's senses, to his intellect, and to his moral
feelings ; but without education one could not
appeal to him, save through the influence of mere
ph) sical power. Corporal punishment would be
the way they could teach him to do his duty,
But by education one might appeal to his cultivated
faculties, and through them, possibly, soften and re-
claim. They should then see none of those extraordi-
nary proceedings, such as took place some thirty years
ago in the Midland Counties, where men associated and
went about in mobs to break machinery—those mar-
vellous instruments by which they were now supported
—as they thought it would interfere with their indivi-
dual labour—instead of now looking upon them as they
did, as the most important advantages possessed by this
' country. Within his own experience he knew at the
seine period, that serving men in England would not
go into the service of a man who kept a thresh•
ing machine, because they said it took away their
labour, and the labour of the neighbourhood. At the
same time they could not get a man in Scotland to go toil
situation where there was not a thrashing machine—the
one class of men, ho regretted to sad, sunk in ignorance,
' and the other, he was proud to say, having the means
education which he was desirous that every man in Eng-
la•id should possess. It was this that gave Seotchmen
the power of managing business, whilst the labouring
men in England and Ireland were eomprlled to be slaves,
not at
(1:it;
..tch.ey
Abad i
nlgesusl
apropwreoro.f. bouf tab,
iesc awuasse
ttoh
be
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last wt.eic's Examiner :
" It is reported on good authority that a fishing-smack,
having been successful in catching fish on the &till* coast,
and sending it up the country, the people from the interior
came down, seized the vessel, took the nets out of her, and
made a bonfire of them, alleging that if she continued to
cat eh fish at such a rate, there would be none for next year.
Forethought is not a common Irish habit; they seldom ex-
tend their views far beyond the present; and the care for
the next years' fish, and choice of present famine rather than
trench on it, was the most unlucky and thoroughly Irish
commencement of prudence that the mind of man could have
conceived."
It was probable that whilst he was addressing the coun-
cil, that there were hundreds of thousands rotting in their
gaols who, had the Government in years past faithfully
done its duty, would have been gaining an honest liveli-
hood, adding to their comforts and respectability, and
increasing the wealth of the nation. It was indeed a
lamentable thought, that much of this arose from the
opposition of those who entertained strong religious feel-
ings on the matter. He could not conceive anything
more extraordinary. They had all kinds of benevolent
and religious institutions; they had ministers in all
parts of the globe,—and each of those so-
cieties had his support according to his means—
but to give a tract to a child, or a bible to a man, with.
out affording them the means of understanding them
was a gross insult ; it was as bad as binding a man's
eyes and bidding him behold the glory and beauty of
the universe.—(Hear.) He trusted that education
would be taken as the basis of all endeavours to hu-
manise and Christianise the whole country, and that
every Englishman would feel that it was a part of lie
birthright to bo educated. It was a melancholy thing
to think that religious differences should fetter thought;
but he confidently trusted that that Court would unani-
mously declare its opinion that no child within these realms
should bo without mental enlightenment as a means to
moral and physical improvement. That was the first
motion he had submitted to the Court, and' perhaps he
might not have discharged his task so well as others
more experienced would have done.—(Hear, hear.)
He had only to add his gratitude for the patience and
kindness with which they had listened to him. He
concluded by proposing the first clause of his motion,
and leaving the remainder of it to be dealt with as the
council might think fit ; and resumed his seat amidst
general cheering.
Mr. T. WHITE seconded the motion. Ignorance was,
in his belief, the most fertile source of crime. The
awful history of prisons proved that indisputably. Of
252,000 persons who were committed to prison in the
space of ten years, 229,000 were uninstructed, 1,085 had
gone beyond the elementary degree, and 22,000 could
merely read and write. It was said that such a fact
showed the ignorance of the vicious. He contended-that
it proved the viciousness of ignorance. The backward-
ness of England in educating the population, was a dis-
grace to the country, and he hailed the Government
syetem as peculiarly calculated to remedy the alarming
evils resulting from such neglect.
Mr. PEWTRESS said, that if Mr. Bennoch happened
to be longer acquainted with the court, ho would
have found it to be unnecessary to give so lung a
1. cture upon education—he would have known that
the numerous motions made in it for the promo-
tion of education, had been supported most vigo-
rously and that its members were upon all occasions
anxious to have the deficiency supplied. He could not,
howover, agree in the opinion that the deficiency was as
great as had been represented. Ail experience had
seoan that the grossest exaegerations had been made.
Ia fact education existed nearly in proportion to the
extent of the population.—(llear, hear.) if gentlemen
would take the trouble to enquire they would find Oat
numbers of scho were adapted to the accommodation
of more children than attended them. It might he
Mikan as a general rule that parents wished to have their
children educated. What then was the reason that
their schools were not crowded ? Why because of the
roverty which exi,ted. The poor were unable to put
clothes on their children suitable to attendance at school.
The rate of wages was so low that even food could not
be supplied. Thar such was the case in England ac
well
as in Ireland there could bo no doubt. and it was the
duty of the Government to effect, if possible, an alteration
in the labour market, as infinitely better calculated to
benefit the population than their system of education.
An improvement in that respect would comprehend the
education of children. There was another important
effect to be produced by leaving it to the people to educate
themselves. He meant the preservation of their inde-
pendence.—(Hear, bear.) That independence which
sprung from the voluntary principle ought to be
cherished by every Government. In 'act, a little more
justice and little less charity were requisite in the treat-
lilent of the poor. Independence, which was the founda-
tion of all our enjoyments, was perilled by the interfer.
once of the Government.
Deputy STEVENS was thankful for the educationa'
measure of the Government, and considered that the
voluntary principle would not sustain the least injury
by its operation. He disapproved of the proposition to
go up to the Queen. A privilege to be exercised upon
rare occasions, and could not be necessary at a time
when Government were evidently doing all they could
for the benefit of the people ; but he should most will-
ingly advocate a petition to the Houses of Parliament in
support of the measure which Government had brought
forward.
Mr. BOWER contended in favour of the Government
measure, and said that so much poverty would not be
in existence, if there were not an overflew of ignorance;
and that the more a man was enlightened the more
easily did he shake off all the prejudices by which mind
was affected under despotic authority. Ile hoped the
present Administration would be supported in their
liberal appropriation of funds, which might under other
guidance, be applied to the prosecution of war or other
vanities.
Mr. R. TAYLOR remembered when Lad J. Russell
said in the Guildhall, that it was the intention of Go-
vernment to bring forward a system d education as
soon as possible, immense cheering proceeded from the
very persons who were now exerting themselves to
overthrow the measure.—(Hear, hear.) He most warmly
approved of the whole system to be
introduced by the
Bill, by which the voluntary principle would be vigo-
rously supported, and a due inspection would be made
into the manner in which the money was expended, by
men of first-rate qualifications. He trusted that the
Corporation of London, which was distinguished for its
love of civil and religious liberty, and which never failed
to give of its funds to aid the education of people of all
religions, would not hesitate in supporting the Admiei
stration in so benevolent an effort to serve the humbler
classes. An objection had been taken that the greatest

The Court of Common Council met yesterday, and
aft,,r a lengthened discussion upon the Health of Towns
Bill,
Mr. BENNOCH then roso and explained that, by a mis-
take the Court, and not the " debate," was adjourned at
the last meeting of the Council. Under these circum-
stances, he might go over the ground he had already
traversed ; but he should not avail himself of that pri-
vilege, and should merely content himself by moving the
resumption of the debate. It was necessary to make
this explanation, in order that those who were
not present at the last meeting might know
exactly how the matter stood. He trusted, how-
ever, that no gentleman who had addressed
the Court on the subject would do so on this occasion—
(Hear, hear ; and oh, oh)—as the adjournment of
the Court, and not the " debate," was simply an acci-
dental circumstance, as the person who proposed it was
favourable to the motion.

Mr. Wstrrz seconded the motion, which was put by
the Recorder, and carried.
Mr. De JERSEY rose to oppose the motion. He said
during the time he had held a seat in that Court, he had
opposed many of the sentiments enunciated by Mr.
Wire; but he confessed he agreed with him in his views
with respect to the scheme of education, which the Go-
vernment had proposed. It had been said with respect
to many corporate bodies, that they interfered with mat-
ters with which they were not called upon to trouble them-
selves, whilst they neglected their own affairs—they
mixed themselves up in political matters, and
became as a matter of course political hinges. He,
therefore, thought the Corporation had stepped out
of its way in this discussion. He fully admitted
the necessity of education; but scarcely two men
could be found to agree as to the best mode of carrying
it out. If the ;Hon. Gentleman who moved the adop-
tion of the resolution, wished to know what the Cor-
poration had done for education, he might find it in
their deeds—as they had voted large sums, year after
year, for the promotion of education, and not excluding
IRoman Catholics and Dissenters from a participation in
the funds. That man who wished to do away with the
local management of schools was no friend to civil and
religious liberty. The resolution, which was avowedly
in favour of the Government plan, asked them to come
to a decision " that education in Great Britain and Ire-
land was lamentably deficient ;" but there were " many
good and true " men, who considered that the systems
of education taught in this country were not deficient.
—(Bear, hear.) lie wished the two countries had been
sep irated in the resolution, because the peo; le of
Leland, owing to their distressed condition, were not
so susceptible of education as the people of this country,
as they were " torpid and apathetic." Mr. Bennoch
quoted France, America, Prussia, and Belgium as ceun-
tries in which Government schemes of education had
been most suscsssinl. With respect to France, a gentle-
malt named Nortley stated that about 700.000 children
were receiving primary instruction, which he found to
he worthless and deficient in morality, and that the
I schoolmasters were far from skink d in their profession.
In America the education was a national thing—a de-
mocratic system of educa:ion—which etas similar to the
system which this Government proposed to adopt, but
nevertheless America upheld slavery—that he supposed
was cue of the distinguishing feature s of the Government
plan.—(oh loh !) America upheld a distinction be-
tween black and white, and yet they were told to
look to America as an example of the success of
a Government system of education. They should, how-
ever, look to the result. Then the r objected
to the voluntary cyst: m. Why, what h moaved it done?
Look at the tens of thousands—ho might say the mil-
lions who had been educated and were now being edu-
eae dby voluntary aid! All the great measures which
had been adopted in this country were indebted to vo-
luntaristn. The Corn-laws which were once upheld by
the House of Commons, were abrogated through the
voluntaty exertions of individuals.
Mr. BENNOCII denied that ho did; he was in favour
of the voluntary system, conjoined with aid from the
State.
Mr. DE JERSEY could point to numberless instances
in which voluntary exertions had accomplished great
re.ults. Why, the Bible and Missionary Societies had
done more for education at home and abroad than the
Government could do, with all its machinery,in the next
half century. From the official report of a gentleman
with respect to the state of the prisoners confined
in Parkhurst, he found this result stated with respect to
900 prisoners ; that one might be apt to imagine that
out of that number there would not be more than 100
who had received any education, but what would they
say if the very reverse was the case, and that not more
than thirty had not received any education, and Sunday
rest had—the great porportion of them
.in
schools., That all this crime was solely ring
fallgnao
ranee, was in his (Mr. de Jersey's) opinionnaot ?
Mr.y.
Then, was educatioH to be compulsory orn
DoTro-
mß eankneoicth'
compulsory,
resolutionw
would
dhbto be
monstrous. takenb oNtv h
yw,atyhse.
setshire labourer with Bs. or 9s. a week, who had half-a-
dozen children, would tell them that he could not afford to
send them to school, as they must go to work as soon as
pour
rt
weres mane
nnodt
they could pick up stones in the fields. Poverty was at
the root of all this, and they must feed and clothe the
poor, before they could think of educating them. Let
them begin at the beginning, and not adopt laws which
them
mucation .for
could not by any possibility be carried out. It was
thwehrenhahned,coiufldit
not justice to offer a
his
But children,compulsory,to school.
he
could state as a fact, that whilst ' •
an immense proportion
sent their children to school, a great number did not,
and would not if they could. One school in Manchester,
for instance, w anted scholars, whilst in London he had
endeavoured to get scholars for a school in his neigh-
bourhood, but he had not succeeded. Something in the
shape of inducement was required ; but if the Dorset-
shire labourer could not send his children to school, the
Government would not hesitate to tax him for the edu-
cation of others : that was not the justice which the
people of this counts), had a right to expect. There was
not a body of Dissenters throughout the country who
had not a school, and they bad done far more for educa.