The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-29 00:00:00

as the Conservative party would not, at all events, de-
.ude the country with false promises. He had before
given his vote against the Ministry on a motion similar
to the present ; and as that was the last time he might
have an opportunity of addressing the House, he had nc
hesitation in saying that he felt himself bound to give
a similar vote now on the motion of the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet the Member for Tamworth. He would retire from
the House with a deep-conviction, and a sanguine hope
that the dynasty of the Noble Lord opposite was near
about to draw to a conclusion.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. INGHAM said that however much he might
have, agreed in the general policy of the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet the Member for Tamworth, he felt himself unable
to vote with him on that occasion.----(Hear, from the Mini-
sterial Benches.) He understood the cheers of Hon. Gen-
tlemen opposite, but he feared he would not equally meet
their approbation on all the grounds which influenced his
vote upon the subject. A Member like him, not belong-
ing exclusively to any party, must look to the merits of
any proposition on which he may be called to ex-
press an opinion.—(Hear, hear.) If he thought that the
Government, after their recent defeats were determined
on continuing in office without appealing to the country,
he should certainly vote without hesitation for the pro-
position of the Right Hon. Baronet. But the members
of the Government had expressed, if not in works, at
least by implication, that it was their intention, after
they had submitted the entire of their policy to the con-
sideration of Parliament, to appeal from the House to
the people. Now, he could not say that a Minister en-
joying the confidence of the Crown, and finding himself
opposed, even on important measures, to the sense of
Parliament, should not have the right of appealing to
the country.—(Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches.;
He could not call it unconstitutional of a Government to
state their sentiments to the House, and afterwards ap-

peal to the elective body. He thought that the case of
Mr. Pitt, to which the Right Hon. Baronet, the Member
for Tamworth, had referred so ingeniously, did not bear
him out in his resolution; and for his (Mr. Ingham's)
part, he looked on the conduct of Mr. Pitt as an in-
stance of a heroic determination to stand by the
Crown, and afterwards ask for the approval of the j
country. He could not say the course about to
be pursued by the Government was unconstitutional,
although he felt that if they were to dissolve Parliament,
and to find public opinion arrayed against them, they
would have a heavy responsibility to answer for.—
(Hear, hear, from the Opposition benches.) No Govern-
ment, could now expect a preponderating ma-
jority in that House ; and, therefore, he did not think
that a casual vote or two should compel them to resign
office. His own opinion at the same time was that the
Ministry would be disappointed in the expectations they
entertained from an appeal to the country.—(Hear, hear.)
He thought, too, that it would be wrong to dazzle the
country with promises which it was not expected could
be realized. These, however, were considerations for
the Government in their future policy ; and he did not
think that in the present instance they were pursuing a
course which could be considered unconstitutional. He did

wised to please the cracked-skull county of York.—
;Laughter.) For his own part, whenever he should be cane(
spon to appear before that constituency he should not feat
o meet them, or dread their displeasure, on account o:
',he part he had taken on the subject of slavery.—
(Hear, hear.) While, however, he gave what he con-
sidered a just meed of praise to the Right lion. Bare-
let's speech, yet he could not carry further his comraen-
'laden with respect to the resolution with which he con
eluded; not that he (Lord M.) thought that the resolu-
tion could be charged with any thing approaching.to
intemperance or passion, but he thought that its prin-
Apal defects were a want of logical soundness, and that
it would be wholly inefficacious for the objects it had in
view. In fact, it seemed to him (Lord 111`.) to be thrown
out as a sort of squib to amuse the great crowd of fol-
lowers of the Right Hon Baronet from more mis-
chievous and dangerous pastimes.—(Great laughter.)
It seemed to be conceived very much in the spirit
of compromise between two opposite currents of opinions
and purposes, and it might have been devised by the art
of which the Right Hon. Baronet was so great a master,
rather more as an emollient than a sedative, in order
f o let down the blood from fever heat. The question
seemed to have been taken up in two points of view,
first, that in which it had been presented by the Right
Hon. Baronet—that which related to the spirit of the
Constitution ; and next, in that which was its real and
practical point of view. The Right Hon. Baronet said
that the conduct of the Government, in retaining office,
after so many Parliamentary defeats, was against the
spirit of the Constitution. Now he (Lord M.)
thought that on that point the Right Hon. Baronet had
but qualified success.—(Hear, hear.) lie denied that
the conduct of the Government was against the
spirit of the Constitution.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He put
out of view the defeats they had sustained previous to
the late defeat on the Sugar Duties—(Hear, hear)—
they might have been right or wrong in considering
them not sufficient notices to quit, or a conclusive indi-
cation that they had lost the confidence of the House—
(Laughter)—but what was the fact ? Why, in the last
Session by a majority of 21, the House had declared that
the present Ministry possessed the confidence of Par-
liament, after a long debate. They might have been
wrong in retaining their seats after the number of de-
feats they had sustained ; but, on the other hand, was
the Right Hon. Baronet right in going on with the Go-
vernment after he had sustained an equal number of de-
feats ? There was this difference, ho-.vever, in the de-
feats of the Government and the Right Hon. Baronet,
that the latter had been unbroken by a single success,
and it was to be remembered, too, that those defeats were
concentrated within a period of three months.—(Hear.)
His object in alluding to these bygone matters was
neither to attack the Right Hon. Baronet, nor defend
themselves.—(Laughter.) They had been reminded that
upon a former occasion they had said they did not
command the confidence of the House when they had a
majority of five. Undoubtedly they had set that prece-
dent,—but Hon. Gentlemen opposite must at the same
time remember that their own most distinguished, leader
said he saw no reason for the resignation of Ministers,—
so that, although they had set the precedent, they had not
by so doing incurred the censure of the mostdistinguished
leader of the Conservative party. He admitted that the
late division on the sugar duties did so far alter the state
of things as to make itself felt by every one that
matters could not be allowed to continue as they were,—
that, in the language of the resolution, the Government
did not possess sufficient of the confidence of the House
to enable them to pass their measures into laws.—
(Cheers.) On that point, he was glad to say, they
were quite agreed.—(Laughter.) No controversy could
arise on that point. ' The question might then arise—
" Why do you not resign?"—(Cheers.) The resolution
seemed to censure them for keeping office, for even one
hour after that division. But it had been shown that
the case was not without a precedent—enough had been
said about the case of Mr. Pitt, in 1784—he would only
say that if the cases were not altogether analogous, they
were so in this, that they (the Government) were op-
posed by a coalition between those who, during their
whole previous life, had been most opposed to each
other.—(Loud cheers.) It was said that they would act
at variance to the spirit of the Constitution in dissolving
a Parliament which had been summoned by themselves.
But that was not the view of the Constitution which he
took. The Parliament, although summoned by the
Crown upon the advice of the Ministry, still, consti-
tutionally, the Parliament must be taken to be chosen
by the people themselves.—(Hear. hear.) In a consti-
tutional point of view, it ought not to be fatal
to the confidence placed in a Ministry that they remained
in office after a hostile vote—or if it was to be so under
one set of circumstances it must be so under another.
He would for a moment allude to the dissolution of
the Parliament by the Right Hon. Baronet in 1834
that was certainly a Parliament called into existence by
his predecessors in office, but he (Lord M.) did not
see that the Right Hon. Baronet had any grounds for
resorting to that extreme expedient, unless they con-
tended that it was more important to test whether the
country would have the Right Hon. Baronet for Prime
Minister, or have a free commerce, with cheaper corn,
cheaper sugar and timber in lieu of higher duties.—
(Cheers.) After the Sugar Duties division it was made
manifest thatit was impossible that the Government could
goon with the present Parliament, that with it they could
not complete any important measure; but he'could not
for a moment allow that it was at all at variance with the
spirit of the Constitution, it was not, in his opinion, at
variance with the true meaning of the principle of the
Constitution, that the Government should ascertain what
the sense of the people was with regard to the measures
which they deemed of importance enough to take that
step upon. It would not be contended by any one op-
posite, that under any conceivable condition of affairs,
the Ministers of the Crown, though defeated in Parlia-
ment, were not entitled, in the spirit of the Constitution
to go on with the business of the Government so as to enable
the Crown to appeal from the Parliament to the people.
—(Cheers.) He did not think it could be said that any
Ministry which had brought forward such important
measures, thinking as they did that they would receive
the warm support of the people, ought to be debarred
from taking the sense of the country upon them.
It was his lot to represent the largest constituent body in
Cie empire, and within the last few days he had laid
upon the table petitions signed by thousands, tens of
thousands, and he believed he might carry it to hun-
dreds of thousands, from every branch of employment
and every pursuit of industry, but chiefly connected with
the woollen trade, which was the oldest staple trade of
the country.—(Hear, hear.) He was far from wishing
to impart exaggerated views of the existing distress—he
did not wish to paint it in overelowing colours, or to
seek to create agitation on the subject. The Right Hon.
Baronet had given the same grave admonition upon the
subject of agitation, and when they were thus
admonished he turned from the lecture to the
lecturer.—(Hear, hear.) He could not forget the great
questions of Catholic Emancipation and Parliamentary
Reform ; and when he looked at the result of these two
great national movements, he could not help thinking
that those who, to a certain extent, sympathised in the
present propositions of the Government, should put
themselves at the head of the popular agitation on the
subject, and guide and master it, rather than permit it
to exceed the limits of fair discussion.—(Cheers.) But
to return to the petitions and to the representations he
had received from quarters in which he could place the
utmost reliance, these statements all went to shoW that
business was hardly ever known to be in a state
of such depression. Many employers were stationary
—mills and manufactories were closed up, and a great
portion of them were working half time, while vast
numbers of hands were thrown out of work; and bad as
that state of things were, there was no satisfactory glimpse
of improvement for the future.—(Hear, hear.) Under
these circumstances, Ministers brought forward proposi-
tions which, whether expedient or not, were calculated
in their view greatly to remedy the existing evils. Par-
liament rejected, or showed unequivocal and unmistak-
able signs of rejecting these propositions. Now, he
would ask was there anything at variance with the spirit of the
Constitution, if Ministers, who thought they had right on their
sides, whoknew they were called on by a large portion of the
people to stand by these measures—(Cheers)--and there was
reason to believe that to a great extent, they, would support
these measures—was there anything at variance with the
spirit of the Constitution, that Ministers being defeated in Par-
liament, should put their propositions upon an issue to the
people, in a regular and authorised way.—( Hear, hear.) It
was true that the Right Hon. Baronet after his defeat in 1835,
resigned office, being in perfect possession of the confidence
of the Crown, without resorting to a dissolution ; but he had
one so a short time before, and that dissolution
had been taken upon the precise issue of whether
the House would entrust the government of the
country to the Right Hon. Baronet and his friends—( Hear,
hear)—and when Parliament had assembled and decided
against his retention of office, his Noble Friend admitted that
he had acted in the spirit of the Constitution, when he ascer- ,
tained that he was in a minority. And thus, after having ap-
pealed to the people upon the measures they now brought for-
ward, and finding themselves in a minority in the new Par-
liament, called together expressly in reference to those mea-
sures, they should then be subject to the reproach. and in that
e
case only would they be liable to it, if, on finding themselves in
a minority, they hesitated for a moment to resign the
Government.—(Loud cheers.)
The Noble Lord the
Member for Liverpool said that they had shown
no signs of intending
to
dissolve that after
sustaining a decisive defeat they appeared in their places, and
made an announcement, as if they
were prepared to go on with
the Parliamentary business already brought forward. But it
must be notorious to every one that the state of the supplies did
not warrant au instantaneous dissolution, and if they had come
down and stated that they were about to punish Parliament for
its vote by an immediate dissolution, be could imagine the
outcry that would be raised against them, and it might be said
with some show of justice, that they acted at variance witk'
the spirit of the Constitution.—( Cheers.) He thought that
to any fair and candid mind the announcement of the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer that he meant to move the ordinary
sugar duties, and theannouncement of his Noble Friend thathe
meant to postpone the Peer-laws and other public measures,
sufficiently indicated the course they meant to pursue.—
( Hear, hear.) Great stress had been laid upon the intimation
they had given, that they meant to take a discussion upon the
Corn-laws. Upon that- subject, he would only remark, that
after the great weight, and the vast preponderance of interests
which on both sides of the House, and in all arts of the coun-
try, was attached to the subject—when he knew that it was
looked upon as forming the main and essential ingredient in the
scheme they had brought forward, he did not think it was un-
reasonable to expect that before Parliament closed, and
before they returned to their constituencies, at least an op-
portunity would be given to them of entering into a regular
discussion on the subject, and for making manifest their opi-
nion upon a matter of the most momentous importance to the
to resort to'it, namely
interests of the country, and of the raost immediate bearing
upon the state of parties and the prospect of the empire.
While on the subject of the dissolution, he must ,say that
even independently of other considerations, his lion. Friend
the Member for Shields had given astrong inducement to them
of the men returned wOuld not be influenced by party heat and
violence.—( Hear, hear.) He hoped he was right in this anti
cipation, and he did not think the present House could be
Freedom from party
changed for the worse. —(Cheers.)
the great probability that the majority
heats was not the encomium which could be most justly pro-
nounced upon them. He would now address himself for_ a
moment to the practical effect of the resolution of the Right
Hon. Baronet. Whatever vote the House init come to pass
upon such a resolution, submitting himself with deference to
its high decision, he should wait with anxiety, but

not, therefore, find himself at liberty to vote for the pro-
position of the Right Hon. Baronet.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUTT said that it was with great satisfaction
he had heard the speech of his Hon. Friend.—(Hear,
hear, and laughter on the Opposition benches.) He had
often differed from his Hon. Friend ; but he was happy
to know that he coincided in opinion with him on this
most important motion of the Session. With respect to
the resolution of the Right Honourable Baronet, he
thought a sufficient answer -to it might be found in
the notorious fact that Government, after having
brought forward the measures which they deemed essen-
tial to the public service, were determined on appealing to
the country. After being beaten fourteen times Mr.
Pitt's appeal to the country was considered a sufficient
justification of his course. If the present Government
had in any degree lost the confidence of the public, it
was because they had not brought forward those great
measures of commercial reform which were opposed on
the other side of the House. They were told that the
monopolies under discussion were essential to the pro-
sperity of the country. It appeared, however, that there
was a difference of opinion, even on the other side, in
reference to these monopolies. From the latter part of
the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet he was led to the
opinion that the Right Hon. Baronet intended at some
future period to propose a modification of commercial
duties. He admired the talents of the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet ; but he could not help saying that he had been
prevented by party connections from proposing. measures
which, in reality, he thought would be beneficial to the
country. He (Mr. Hutt) believed that the measures
proposed by the Government were far more important
to the social welfare of the country than any that had
been proposed for centuries. Unrestricted commerce
was the ancient policy of this country, and it might be
expected to flourish in proportion as it returned to that
policy._ . - _ _ -_ - .

- Lord SANDON said that, however satisfied the Hon
Gentleman might be, the House had shown that they dic
not concur in the sentiments expressed by the preceding
speaker.—(Hear, hear.) his Hon. Friend (Mr. Ingham,
had shown throughout his address much of that subtlet3
of reasoning which he had displayed on former occasions
admitting most fully that the Government were unable
to carry measures which they considered essential to tlu
welfare of the country, but justifying their retention o
office by the uncertain result of a dissolution. He (Lon
Sandon) had no hesitation as to the course which hi
should pursue. He had a thorough want of con
fidence in her Majesty's Ministers on almost every
particular, but especially that at a time when
commerce was confessedly labouring under great
difficulties, they had brought forward measures which
they never expected to.carry.—(Hear, hear.) This re-
mark applied both to sugar and to timber ; and with
regard to corn, they had the confession of her Ma-
jesty's Ministers themselves, that when they proposed
the measure they never expected to succeed.—(Hear,
hear.) Was it common sense, or common honesty, to
to embarrass the monetary and commercial affairs of the
country, by throwing down this bone of contention
among different classes, in the face of their own declara-
tion that such questions ought never to be mooted unless
there was a prospect of success? If her Majesty's Mi-
nisters were not responsible for the debates which took
place in that House, they were responsible for the de-
el J., • n of the Prime Minister ; and though that Prime
kl tv. er had endeavoured to explain away his declara-
tion of last year, that it would be madness to touch the
Corn-laws, there was another expression which could
not be mistaken, that measures like these should not be
proposed without a moral certainty of their being carried
by the Government. That certainly did not exist with
regard to the measures before the House ; and the Go-
vernment proposing them, under such circumstances,
was, in his opinion, totally unfit to be entrusted with
the management of the country. Even with regard to
sugar, what reason • had they to suppose that the
argument which was applied last year would fail to apply
in the present year ? He had been taunted on the
other side with respect to his conduct on this
subject, and not having had an opportunity before he
felt himself bound to take notice of those taunts. The
Hon. Member for Edinburgh had, last night, taunted
him with hypocrisy. Why was it hypocrisy in him to
use this argument, and not hypocrisy in the other side
last year ?—(Hear, hear.) An appeal to the miseries of
the country would, last year, have formed a sufficient
excuse, but it did not when the price of sugar was re-
duced to a considerable extent. He had been reminded
of the expression of disapprobation of his conduct on the
part of the Anti-Slavery Society. The first impression
of that Society, as stated to the House by the Hon.
Member for the Tower Hamlets, was against the pro-
posed measure. In the course of a few days there was
an agitation amongst the supporters of her Majesty's
Government, and then, for-the first time, they declared
that the only way to extinguish slavery was
to expose free labour sugar to the utmost
amount of competition. He had also been taunted with
the expression of the Anti-Slavery Society of Liverpool.
Now, what were the facts ? That Society had fallen al-
most to pieces, it being considered that there was no
longer any occasion for its existence. But when it ap-
peared that her Majesty's Ministers attached great im-
portance to this question of sugar, a little knot of gentle-
men collected the friends of the Anti-Slavery Society,
and in the name of that Society published their opinions.
—(Hear, hear.) If such were the manner in which
these measures were supported, it only showed how little
importance was to be attached to it. A Birmingham
paper that he had seen that morning would show
that the feeling of the anti-slavery party was
not universally in favour of the vernment measure.
(The Noble Lord then read a leer to the editoi of the
Standard, in a Birmingham new paper, signed " Charles
Sturge," stating that he hi self was opposed to
the Government proposition, a d that he was con-
vinced that if his brother, Mr. Joseph Sturge,
were in England, he too would be strongly opposed to it.)
Now what was the position of the present Government ?
They had been dwindling in their numbers for session
after session, in every successive election, which showed
that they had lost the confidence of the country ; their
majorities had progressively diminished ; out of twenty
elections sixteen had terminated in favour of their oppo-
nents.--(Hear, hear.) It was idle to say that this
was to be attributed to bribery and corruption. Had not
corruption been resorted to by the partisans of the Go-
vernment ?—(Hear hear.) Had they forgotten St. Al-
ban's ?—(Chers from the Opposition benches.) Had
they forgotten Newark ?—(Continued cheering.) Had
they forgotten Nottingham ? Time after time had it been
shown that where money could be used successfully there
were no scruples in using it. The allegations of corrup-
tion on the part of their opponents might be true in some
tthmeematahjorhistity they wered false. The Hon. Mem-
beralke of 5L in one place and
cases,ls fonrhauWnt
,could
.not do o
the
rowNlviinchwiitthwouast
oinether, but he spoke only from common rumour.
encroachment on the prerogative of
tThheeir Pdreutsye,nast Ministry
Yrs to do—namely, restrain a single
having the assistance of that side of the House. He had
boneetnagaforincesdt into these remarks
ey question.
rby wh a t had I
nb eent hroconclusion,wn
he would say that the Government had only kept their
places by throwing away, one after another, every prin-
ciple which they had hitherto professed.
the slavery
Lord MORPETH then rose to address the House.
He should be the first both to appreciate and acknow-
ledge the tone of moderaton and temper in which the
speech of the Right Hon. Baronet who had submitted
this resolution to the House was conceived.—(Cheers.)
But whether the speech of the Noble Lord who had just
sat down was conceived in the same vein, and exhibited
the same quality—the same absence of personal imputation
and party differences, the same willingness to do justice
to political opponents and to acknowledge their merits
he would leave to the House to judge.--(Hear, hear.)
That Noble Lord had not confined -his imputations to
the members of her Majesty's Government, but he had
included in them many men, and bodies of men, through-
out the country, who had spent the greater part of their
lives in long, devoted, and persevering exertions to
strike off the last remnants of the fetters of slavery,
while the Noble Lord himself was acting with many of
those who had done their utmost to rivet those fetters
more tightly. He recollected that the late gr. Cobbett
used to say that the abolition of slavery Cry had been

THl4_9. SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, MAY 29, 1941.

he hoped with calmness, the confirmation it would receive at'
the bar of public opinion.—(Loud cheers.) What was the
immediate cause of the dispute that had lately arisen in the
House ? The Noble Lord had reproached them with the time
bringing forward these meanires; but what were the circum-
stances under which they had done so ? There was a consider-
able deficiency in the public revenue of the country. As the
the deficiency did exist, it must be dealt with ; then the course
which Ministers had taken was, instead of proposing tempo-
rary assistance by a loan—instead of, as they did in the first
instance last year, endeavouring to impose fresh burdens on the
struggling industry of the country, they proposed to recruit the
public coffers by relaxing the restrictions on the suffering poor,
and by increasing the necessaries and comforts of life for the
people, whom he hoped the House would not consider as being
animated with mere animal wants. To increase the command
of tho people over the necessaries of life—that was their
scheme—that was their defined and previously-avowed object.
What, he would ask, was theirs (the opposition)? They (the
Conservatives) had not thrown any further light, in the course
of the present debate than in the last one, on what they thought
it necessary to do. When the Right Hon. Baronet seemed to
treat the House with thegreatest frankness, he only left them more
in the dark than ever. Amongst the industrious classes the

greatest distress prevailed, and such a state of things must be
met by those who proposed to rule the destinies of the coun-
try. What was the sum and substance of what the opposite
party stated ?—That they would not in the course of next year
consent to the introduction of foreign sugar ; that they would
not touch on the timber duties until they were become better
acquainted with the despatches of the Governor-General
of Canada—(" Hear, hear," from the Opposition. )
that they would adhere to the sliding scale of
of duties labitur et labetur in omne volubilis cevum.—(Loud
cheex s.) The present was the first time when they heard of
any great party attempting to seize the reins of power, not by
the avowal of any fixed priniples. or any defined measures or
ascertained purpose, but by resting on the persevering du-
plicity of their leaders.—( Cheers.) What was the actual
source of dispute and conflict between the two parties and the
courses of policy which were now making an appeal to the de-
cision of Parliament and the public. There was no part of
the general policy of the present Government, as it appeared
by the state of things in this country, of which, if a chal-
lenge had been thrown down, he (Lord Morpeth) would
have shrunk from the fullest inquiry before the people
of this country. With respect to the dependencies of the em-
pire he could triumphantly refer to the results of the manage-
ment of the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies. He
could point to the islands and continents of the southern seas,
teeming full with the seeds of future civilisation and order. " I
feel equally proud," continued the Noble Lord, " when I turn to
the department of my Noble Friend the Secretary for Foreign
Affairs, to whom in the course of this debate well-merited testi-

mony was borne, as one who had caused the flag of England
to float triumphantly on coasts where it had not
been planted before ( Hear, hear, and cheers) I
would point to the peace of Europe, which, though menaced
to the utmost, yet remains untouched. With respect to the
internal government of Great Britain testimony has been
lately borne to the cessation of all insurrectionary movements.
With respect to Ireland, that is a topic on which I will
not enlarge, because it is natural that I should feel a
stronger temptation to do so than on any other subject. Com-
plete internal tranquillity—cessation from all tumult and dis.
order, and all the blessings of temperance prevail in that
country. Power may pass away from our (the Ministers)
hands.--(Hear, hear.) If it did, I wish from my heart that
it may prosper in yours (the Conservatives), and
let the boast be ours (the Ministers), that we have
led to more brilliant views, and more extended advan-
tages. With these feelings, I hope that those who have
hitherto supported and sustained our efforts, will give to
the censure contained in the resolution of the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet, their decided negative."—(Cheers.)
Sir J. GRAHAM said that the Noble Lord who had just sat
down said that power might pass from their hands. Their
(the Conservatives) allegation was, that it had long since
passed from their hands. The Noble Lord was kind enough
to wish that power might prosper in their hands. Ho (Sir J.
Graham) thought that if some of that self-gratulation with
which the Noble Lord concluded his speech, did not prevent
his being just and generous, it would lead him to
believe that the country thought that power might
be entrusted in their (the Conservatives) hands.—(Hear.)
He knew not what was the meaning of the tone of triumph on
the subject of the foreign policy of this country. What was
that note of triumph, for instance, as regarded China.—
( Hear, hear, hear.) He had yet to learn that our successes in
that quarter had been signal. It was unfortunate that they
knew little in detail with regard to any portion of the foreign
policy of the Government. With respect to China, they had
still to learn the brilliant success which had crowned the efforts
of this country. Did the Ministry pride themselves on the
taking of Chusan amidst scenes memorable :or their connection
with the opium trade? Or on the withdrawal of our naval forces?
or on the subsequent negotiations, while the British Plenipot en
tiary was for years left without instructions, and who at last,
acting on his instructions, had been recalled and disavowed by the
Government?—(Opposition cheers.) In a word until he saw
the debt due by the Government to the East India Company
for that expedition paid off—until he knew that the 2,000,000/.
surrendered to the Chinese Government had been restored—
, until he knew that the assurance held out by the Noble Lord
the Secretary for Foreign Affairs as to the objects of that expe-
dition had been realised—until indemnity for the past and
security for the future had been gained by some new expedi-
tion, he would retain his former opinion, and he would venture
to express his belief that the war with China was a great
calamity. --( Hear.) He believed it was the opinion of Napoleon
that a war with China would be one of the most detrimental
events to the greatness of England, and to the security of her
Indian empire ; and he ( Sir J. Graham) would, therefore,
still maintain that the war with China was one in which success
would be attended with no glory, and in which a failure would
be the heaviest misfortune that had ever befallen this country.
—(Opposition cheers.) He would now apply himself more
immediately to the subject-matter under consideration. The
Noble Lord (Lord Morpeth), at the commencement of his
speech, said that he should put. out of view all the defeats of
the Government before the introduction of the present
budget. A very convenient course for the Noble Lord ! but
one which, in justice to the motion of his (Sir J. Graham's)
Right Hon. Friend, it was impossible for him to pursue.—
(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman the Secre-
tary-at- War, in arguing the question last night,
had justly observed that the motion embraced two
propositions ; the first of which was the statement of a fact,
and the second the inference to be drawn from that fact. The
Right Hon. Gentleman, in arguing the question, found it
convenient to invert the natural order of the argument, by
dealing first with the latter proposition ; and he expressed
his astonishment that his (Sir James Graham's) Right
Honourable Friend should have advanced, in this in-
stance, a principle of general application. So far, however,
was that from being the principle of the motion, that it was
entirely drawn from a statement of a case special in itself, and
which case was strictly defined and limited by the fact alleged
in the major proposition. That fact was not a single isolated
defeat, which rendered it the duty of the Government to resign,
but the allegation was that her Majesty's present advisers did
not sufficiently possess the confidence of -the House to enable
them to carry, not one or two, but a succession of measures,
which they deemed indispensable for the welfare of the State.
—( Cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman in arguing the case
from analogy took a single instance of defeat in a long train of
administration by Mr. Pitt, and referred to the example of
Lord Liverpool, who had been defeated on the property tax. But
those were the defeats of Administrations which in general pos-
sessed the confidence of both Houses of Parliament, and which had
succeeded in carrying the measures which they believed to be
conducive to the public good. He entreated them to con'ras
these cases with the state of affairs wi.h which they were th ;n
dealing. What he alleged was, that her Majesty's present ad-
visers had, in their own Parliament. from the commencement
up to the present hour, experienced a series of defeats or corn-
' premises, arising out of conscious weakness, and adopted against
their own judgment, or altered in defiance of their former opi-
nions, not in consequence of any ostensible reason, except the
pressure of the party opposed to them in Parliament. Really
if he looked back to the measures which the Govern-
ment had carried in the present Parliament, he could not
mention a single ono which had been passed without . se
concurrence of their political opponent s.—( Hear, hear.)
The Right Hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of
Control enumerated certain measures on which he plumed
himself as proofs of the administrative powers of the Ministry.
He would begin with the English Municipal Bill. But that
measure had been introduced by Lord Grey's Government,
and it was a measure to which:his Noble Friend (Lord Stanley)
and himself were parties, and be was not aware that it had re-
ceived any opposition from those Hon. Gentlemen with whom
they now acted. Upon the second reading the Right Hon.
Baronet the Member for Tamworth supported its principle.
The next measure was the English Tithe Commutation
Act. But what was the origin of that Bill? During
the time the Right Honourable Baronet the Member for
Tamworth was at the head of affairs, he had introduced
an English Tithe Commutation Bill, and that Bill was
the ground-work of the measure subsequently passed by the
present Government.—(Hear, and criee of " No, no.") He
contended that it was the stock upon which the measure of
the Government was grafted ; although they were not identical
in their details, as the Bill of his Right Hon. Friend did not
sanction the compulsory process. The next measure which he
would refer to was the Irish Tithe Bill ; but the real author of
that Bill was his Noble Friend the Member for North Lancashire.
The Bill was first introduced, he believed, by his Right Hon.
Friend the Member for Launceston (Sir H. Hardinge) when
Secretary for Ireland. A memorable dispute avose with respect
to that measure. Her Majesty's present Ministers, then in op-
pcsition, passed in the Committee of that. Bill the celebrated
appropriation clause. Now, really the Government could not
take credit to itself for the Bill in its present shape, for that
was not the Bill for which they contended. The present measure
was not that of which Lord Melbourne declared that it should
remain unchanged on account of the pledge to which as a man
of honour be was bound, and to which his public faith was
pledged.-(Cheers.) Subsequent considerations, of a patriotic
nature, oubt, and of a public character, had induced the
Noble Lord to relinquish that pledge. But it did happen that
the Irish Tithe Bill, notwithstanding all the contentions of
which it had been the subject, was passed in the same state in
which it had been introduced by the Government of his Right
Hon. Friend.--( Hear, hear.) The next measures for which
credit was taken by the Ministry were the Rural Police and
the County Constabulary Bills. Of these he would only say
that they were but the consequence, and modelled upon the
example, of the Metropolitan Police Bill introduced
by his Right Honourable Friend.—(Hear, hear.) He
next came to the Post-office Reform, which was
all their own.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") The Hon.
Member for Bridport, cheered him ; and he was not surprised
at that, as he believed the measure was a concession made by
the Government in its weakness ; nay, more, he believed that
the Postmaster-General, who knew the matter well, had
warned the Ministry that they were taking a fatal step. He
believed that the prudence of the Postmaster-General was
greater than that of Ministers ; and that he had foreseen that
the fate of the Government was involved in that concession ;
and as it had led in some measure to the present financial
embarrassments of the country, he felt that the prediction
had been fulfilled, and he wished them joy of the measure.
The next measure was the Irish Municipal Bill. That was the
only measure which her Majesty's Ministers had carried with-
out the full concurrence of their opponents, and even that was
not passed without so large a concession, that it was stated to
have been deprived of its chief benefit. He could not conceive
a greater proof of the weakness, imbecility, and paralysed
nature of a Government, than that by compulsion from their
opponents they would introduce that which was contrary to
their own judgment, and which they regarded as destroying its
efficiency ; yet in this measure the political franchise was a fran-
chise dictated by opponents of the Government.—( Hear. )
There was the English Chancery Bill, upon that he rould not
dwell further than to say, that itoriginated in a; Commission
which was appointed on the motion of his Right Honourable
Friend, while he was in power. He would now turn from
the measures which her ,'Majesty's Government had passed,
to those which they had brought forward and abandoned. There
was no question which, when the Government of Lord Mel-
bourne was formed, excited a greater degree of attention than
the question of Church-rates. In the year 1834, just before
he (Sir James Graham) quitted the Government of Lord
Grey, Lord Althorp, on the part of that Government, intro-
duced a measure upon that subject. He never exactly under-
stood why that measure was abandoned ; but., having been
abandoned, with great pomp and circumstance Lord Mel-
bourne's Government brought forward a measure to settle this
disputed question. It was introduced by Lord Monteagle with
a great parade of figui es and important calculations. It was
sent to a Committee up stairs ; the calculations were blown
into air, the plan was abortive, and from that day to this no
attempt hul been mule to settle the question of Church-rates.