The Sun.
London, England, 1840-07-14 00:00:00

EVENING EDITION.

the House; and as to the discussions with Constanti-
nople—unfriendly, he presumed, was meant—they
were to him (Lord Palmerston) wholly unknown.
With regard to Washirigton, he presumed that the
Right Hon. Gentleman referred to the boundary ques-
tion, but if he had been less occupied in the prepara-
tion of his speech that evening he would have heard him
(Lord Palmerston) state, in answer to the Right Hon.
baronet the Member for Tamworth, that they had
made a proposition to the American Government
founded on the basis of a suggestion made by the
American Government last year, and therefore there
was some ground for hoping that that affair was in a
train of settlement. With regard to China, he did not
recollect that the Right Hon. Gentleman had availed
himself of the three nights' debate upon the question,
to state the particular grounds of his disapproval of
their policy with regard to that empire.—( Hear, hear.)
It was not his intention to retract any opinion he had
previously given upon the question as between the three
Powers and the State of Cracow. With reference
to its occupation, he certainly did not think
that any case had been made out by these
parties, and he was all through of opinion that that
occupation was a violation of the stipnlations
of the treaty, and her Majesty's Government had pro-
tested against it.—(Hear, hear.) It was one thing,
however, to pronounce an opinion and another to en-
force that opinion by an appeal to arms, which England
was not at the time in a condition to do. It was also
fair to state the peculiar circumstances in which Europe
was placed at the time. There had been a revolution
in France—Belgium and Holland had been separated,
and the Poles had endeavoured to rescue what 'hey con-
ceived to be their rightful Government from Russia.
The three Powers in question were greatly alarmed,
each of them holding possession of the territories which
formerly formed a part of the kingdom of Poland, and
it was not surprising at the moment that their fears or
their passions had obscured that judgment which they
might have exercised in their calmer moments. He
mentioned that as much with respect to the future as
't'he past, because their apprehension, having now gone
:by he might rationally indulge the hope that the three
Powers would be induced to take a kinder view of the
mutter than in times gone by.—( Hear, hear.) The
Right Hon. Gentleman had contended that Cracow
was of great importance to that country in a commer-
cial point of view. Now, when he informed the House
that the whole population of Cracow was not more than
110,000, it would he seen that its commercial import-
ance could not be very great. He did not wish to di-
minish the interest which the House felt on the ques-
tion, but he wished it to stand upon its real merits as
regarded the commercial intercourse. The account of
,their exports was not kept so distinct as to enable him to
t`ll the Pee, pt-tct qu'intitles forwtwled to Cacti
p n! but he would ilientimi the
total •f 1,,, total export= to
and 11-31i.:rnl. in 183..1, amount in rdue to 7,439,000/. ;
in 1836 they amount to 7,134,000/. ; in 18:37 they
amount to 8,069,000/. ; and ie 1838 to 8,693,000/.
Therefore whatever effect the state of Cracow had
had on our commercial arrangements with that place,
it was evident that with regard to Getman), in general
no diminution, but on the contrary a considerable aug-
mention had taken place in the ,last three years. He
did not mention this as a reason why the House should
Creel iedifferent on the subject, but to prevent their
being led away by misconception of the bearings of this
ease on our commercial interests.--( Hear, hear.)
With regard to the occupation of Cracow, it should he
:remembered that though sanctioned by the three
Powers, it, was practically done by Austria, not by
'Russia, and at the present moment and for some time
Past the garrison of Cracow consisted of Austrian
troops. The British Government had for some time
urged the withdrawal of that garrison, and Austria had
ePeatedly assured them that it should be withdrawn.
-At the same time there were arrangements for the re-
enrganization of the militia, and some trials to take place
previously ; but the British Government were assured by
the Government of Austria, that they were about to with-
draw the garrison, and the former had lately expressed a
wish that the assurance should be carried into effect.
It was therefore only a question between the Austrian
Government and time. Therefore, as far as the object
'of obtaining the release of Cracow from military domina•
tion was concerned, he could assure the House that her
Majesty's Government had not lost sight of that object,
but had pursued it in that manner they thought most
eligible for its attainment. If it were asked when that
was done what their intentions were, he thought expe-
rience of the manner in which his unfortunate assertion
with regard to a Consul at Cracow had been taken up
by Hon. Gentlemen opposite, would be a reason why he
should refuse to give any other statement of intentions
which might be subjected to unjust inferences.—( Hear.)
With regard to that question he had stated distinctly
that it was the intention of the Government
to send a Consul to Cracow, but he certainly
did not state that a Consul from Great
Britain should be at Cracow in a month. But when
that intention became known it created great jealousy
in the minds of the Governments of the three Powers ;
not so much as to the fact of a British Consul being
there, as to the political character given to it by other
Parties ; and it was found, on communicating with them,
that it would be impossible to remove from the minds
of those Powers the feelings of jealousy and suspicion
with which they received the expression of that inten-
leen. This he had fairly stated on a former occasion.
%---( Hear, hear.) And it became a question of pru-
dence, with regard to the accomplishment of that in-
tention. In the first place, with regard to the people
of Cracow, if the sending a Consul had excited in their
minds expectations of farther support, and the inter-
ference which might have been justified with regard to
Cracow had led to unfounded expectations,
it might have left them in a worse condition
than that in which they were, and which
every one deplored, and would desire not to
make worse. In the next place, if the three Powers
lied,
-, determined to prevent a British Consul going to
Cracow, nothing would be more easy than for them to
induce the Government of Cracow to decline to receive
him, and was that a situation in which to place a great
tower like En eland in respect to a small power like
bands, Hear, hear)—to have him returned on our
ands, not by the Government, but which they must
"eke as the act of the Government ? He thought the
House would be of opinion that the most prudent and
,beeoming way, and that which, so far from being dis-
41t "OUrable to England, was founded on a just regard
.° the honour and dignity of the country, was to abstain
from subjecting it to the posslbility of such an occur-
10;Pce.--(Hear, hear.) He quite agreed with the
'"lght Hon. Gentleman that the manner in which
Cracow
was constituted an independent State
"titled her to receive a Consul, and to send one to
otter Powers. A contrast had been drawn between
raeow and the lonian islands ; but in the treaty with
the latter it was found necessary to insert an article to
prevent the lonian Legislature from holding diplomatic
intercourse with foreign States, and therefore the cases
were not analogous. It might be true that Frankfort
Was not more important than Cracow, but a Consul
Would not have been sent there if Frankfort had not
been the seat of a Confederation. The Consul there
was an unpaid person, and was merely there for the
transaction
of any trivial matters which might require
his agency. Again, with regard to Hamburgh, the
Consul-General there was not merely accredited to
amhu'"g+ but to the Hanse towns, which, being places
of great commercial interest, stood on a different footing
to the inland:town of Cracow. He had now mica-
!nhred to state, as shortly as he could, that which
in itself stood in a narrow compass, that the ground
on which he differed in opinion from the three Powers,
was with regard to the occupation of Cracow, and not
as to the steps taken to put an end to that occupation ;
and that there was reason to hope that, at no distant
Period, that occupation would cease. He could assure
the House he took a lively interest in all that concerned
the unhappy population of Cracow and Poland. It was
impossible that any person, standing in that House,
should not feel and express great sympathy with the
calamities which war had inflicted on that unfortunate
I!!°Ple.—(Hear, hear.) He could also assure the
louse, that any occasion in which the Government of
England--and he was sure in speaking for themselves,
be alight speak for those who might succeed them—
could, by the exercise of the influence of this country,
mitigate the fate of those whose misfortunes they so
advantage
and he could also assure the House,
that there f ;
was the greatest disposition in her Majesty's
Present advisers to avail themselves of such opportunity.
onlyhowever, was not to be done by menaces—it could
be effected by persuasion. There was no greater
by
than to suppose a great country could be driven
1Y words when they were not prepared to second them
Unbecoming opinion of what was passing in other coun-
tries, that he did not recommend, as his Hon. Friend
seemed to do, the example of the French Chambers,
tbo h
e atuse he did not think anything was added
entering on
the
honour of a great country by annually
the Roll strong resolutions and
"lon St without being prepared to follow them up by
• 14.1y_.effeetive measures.—(Hear, hear.)
sir R. PEEL said no ono felt more than he did the
necessityso of discussing with 'great caution a question of
great importance as that which now occupied the
attention of the House—a question, moreover, on
ontfhl eh they were not perfectly informed, and the issue
Whichutmost
might be fraught with consequences of the
nist importance. He agreed with the Noble Lord
that nothing
nothing was more unwise than in a popular assem-
.°ol to excite the Executive Government of the country
eimmediate resort to force for the aceomplish-
ebn of its purposes ; but, at the same time,
must say, the House of Commons would loose
its station and character, if it carried that forbear-
ance to too great an ext7ente, and showed a perfect in-
difference to foreign aggression.—(Hear, hear.) He
bore in mind all those considerations, to which the
Noble Lord had adverted in justification of the conduct
of the three Powers. He bore in mind the momentous
"rents of 1830, which led to the overthrow of one
tt and the separation of Holland and Belgium,
'ugh their union was guaranteed by the treaty of

181.5. He remembered the insurrection in Poland, and I
the general excitement of publie feeling at that period,
and the apprehension lest those feelings should be dis-
turbed, and involved in the calamity of a gene-
ral war.— (Hear, hear, hear.) He remembered
all these considerations, and gave due weight to them
in estimating the course pursued by the Three Powers.
In the Treaty of 1815 it was particularly presided that
Cracow should be prevented receiving the refugees of
other countries. At the same time, speaking with all
the caution and reserve, yet knowing well the value of
public opinion expressed in the House of Commons, he
must say he did hope the time would come when these
Three Powers, with whom he wished to preserve rela-
tions of the utmost amity, would make the first ap-
proaches to the desired settlement, when they
were fully assured it was for the general h.-
terest, and for the maintenance of those great
conservative principles which he believed it was
their great object to maintain, that they should revert
to the settlement made in 1815, and that Cracow should
be established in the possession of the independence
and freedom which was then guaranteed to her.—
( Hear, hear.) These Powers must feel that it would
be of immense importance when the temporary neces-
sity should be at an end of re-establishing all States, the
small as well as the great—and perhaps the moral obli-
gation was stronger svith regard to the former than the
latter—in the full possession of their Independence.
They would remember the prepossession entertained
in Europe in favour of small communities, such
as Frankfort, Lubeck, and others, which, though natu-
rally viewed with suspicion by their powerful neigh-
bours in the time of trouble, could not be safely de-
prived of their rights. He did hope these considera-
tions would induce these great Powers, for whose gene-
ral policy he entertained the greatest respect, to anti-
cipate the interference of England or France, and come
forward themselves to guarantee the independence of
Cracow. This would be by far the most satisfactory
termination of the matter, and would permit Europe to
enjoy the spectacle of all its small States surrounded by
great military powers, but in possession of perfect freedom.
There were some arguments of the Noble Lord, at
which lie was rather surprised, and first with regard
to the commercial importance of Cracow. He agreed
that the political question was of greater importance,
than the commercial, but this country could not view
without great jealousy, the infraction of the rights of
a city which had been decreed by a solemn treaty to
be independent, and to have a right to free trade
with all parts of the world. The Noble Lord had
attempted to show that our commercial interests were
not much impared by the hostile occupation of Cracow
by showing that our exports to the whole of Germany had
not fallen off; but what sort of proof was that ? Suppose
there lied been a prozn-ss:tr: in,:reaf! in our commeroi,,i
int,rrcoiirsc with Oermatiy 'did I lollend, did the Noble
Lord think that would be a pt out' that. our commerce
1%.,;:: not affected with regard to Cracee 't Ho .v del the
Noble Lord know but that if there had been free trade
with Cracow we might not have had a still greater in-
crease ? The Noble Lord had stated that lie was deter-
mined not again to declare the intention of her Ma-
jesty's Government. No one could complain of that
resolution. He (Sir Robert Peel) must say that
be had always thought that principle had been
observed by all Governments. He thought the Noble
Lord's experience with respect to his declaration of
sending a Consul to Cracow, would fortify him in that
resolution.—( Hear, hear.) He entirely concurred in
the wisdom of the new course the Noble Lord meant
to pursue. He could conceive nothing more inexpedient
than for a Government to declare its intention to ob-
serve a certain course, unless they had positively made
up their mind to do so. The Noble Lord declared
four years ago that it was his intention to send a Con-
sul to Cracow, and in consequence of that declaration
the Noble Lord induced a Member of the House,
who had brought forward a notice of a hostile nature,
to withdraw it on account of that satisfactory declara-
tion—(Hear, hear)—but the Noble Lord saw good
reason not to act upon it. The Noble Lord had el, awn
a contrast between his Right Honourable Friend
and himself, and said that his Honourable
Friend had acted hastily, and upon imperfect
knowledge, whereas the Government never entered into
affairs without the fullest information.—( Hear, hear.)
He did not at all question the fullness of the informa-
tion which the Government possessed, but he must say
the niggardliness in which they dealt it out formed a
strong contrast to it.—(Hear, hear.) Considering the
riches they possessed, the contrast between its extent
and their charity was remarkable.—(Laughter.)
He did not complain of the Noble Lord upon good
grounds changing his determination, but what he com-
plained of was, that he made declarations without
perceiving their consequences ; because, in the
state of our relations with that country and the
state of the discussions in the House of Com-
mons, that delaration by the Noble Lord was an
important declaration, and might have been attended
by the consequences the Noble Lord had mentioned, if
persisted in. The people of Cracow, hearing that the
Noble Lord, in defiance of the three Powers, had de-
clared his
,intention of sending a Consul to Cracow,
would, no doubt, think that the British Government
deemed the claims of Poland to be paramount, and had
determined to act on the strict construction of that
treaty.—(Hear, hear.) He could not but think
the Noble Lord's untimely declaration had postponed
the period at which a Consul svoUld be sent ; and that if
the Noble Lord had stated fully the intention of the
British Government on the subject, he would before
this have succeeded in establishing a Consul at Cracow,
without any further opposition on the part of the three
Powers, but with their concurrence ; and that, in point
of fact, the arrangements which must now ensue,
would have been carried into execution.(Hear.)
He hoped that after the evacuation of Cracow by the
Austrian troops they should not only see the indepen-
dence of Cracow restored by the evacuation of its terri-
tory by the troops of the other Powers, but also our
Consular relations with that country re-established.
Although there might be no doubt as to the question
of right, yet he agreed with the Noble Lord, that if
great Powers, like France and England, were deter-
mined to push every question of right to the decision
cf arms, there would be little chance of maintaining the
peace of Europe. Considerations of prudence, as well
as considerations of right, must be attended to. Al-
though a country might be satisfied it was in the right,
yet if that right could only be enforced by disturbing
the general peace of the world, the moral obliga-
tions we were under to preserve that peace, in-
dependently of considerations of prudence, ought
to make us pause and weigh well the reasons
before adopting such measures. Seeing the language
that had been adopted in the French Chambers, seeing
that the language held by the French Government was
that they had made a solemn protest against the occu-
pation, and that having made such protest, silence
must henceforth be observed on the subject until an
opportunity should offer for enforcing that protest,
lie must say that it was impossible to deny that the
question was at present in an unsatisfactory state.
The English and French Government had both made
a solemn protest against the occupation. He trusted that
the three Powers who had given guarantees for the
maintenance of things on the ancient footing, and who
might be considered as the defenders of Conservative
principles in Europe, would maturely consider this
important point, and take to themselves the credit,
without waiting for any further intervention on the
part either of France or England, at an early period, of
restoring to the people of. Cracow, their free form of
Constitutional Government, without any measures
being adopted on the part of England, without any
measures being adopted on the part of France for
this purpose, and before popular feeling should be
excited. That would be a course consistent with
their own dignity, and would extinguish those seeds
before maturity which might, if not extinguished,
acquired a growth dangerous to the peace of Europe.—
(Hear and cheers.) This question had been discussed
in the temper in which such questions ought to be dis-
cussed, and he could not help thinking the complaints
of the Noble Lord, of the manner in which it had bgen
introduced by his Hon. Friend, were rather to be attri-
buted to the soreness of the Noble Lord, respecting his
own former declarations, than to anything which had
fallen from his Right Hon. Friend in introducing the
subject.—(Cheers.)
Mr. HUME hoped nothing like party feeling would
be expressed on a subject of this importance. He
thought, notwithstanding what had fallen from the
Noble Lord, that the Chambers of France had done
themselves honour by the part they had taken
on this subject in pointing out the object to the
policy of the three Powers, and he was pleased to
see the decided manner in which they had raised their
voice in the face of Europe against the commission of
this injustice. Viewing the conduct of the three Powers
since 1815, more particularly looking at the present
state of Cracow, no British subject could entertain any
respect for them. They had seemed to vie with each
other in the violation of treaties respecting Poland, and
their conduct was such as no public man could approve.
He wished the Noble Lord would satisfy the British
public as to what steps had been taken to remonstrate
against the violation of the most sacred treaties. He
wished the Noble Lord bad stated the nature of the
protests he had made, or produced them—(Hear)—in
order to show how far he had gone in support of that
cause he was bound to support. He hoped the just
appeals which had been made to the three Powers
would be sufficient to bring them back to a sense of
honour. But it yet remained to be stated what
steps the Government had taken to secure the in-
dependence of Cracow. He believed that no
Member of the British House of Commons had ex-
pressed his approval of their conduct—the expression of
disapprobation had been unanimous, and the feeling of
the people of England was equally strong with that of
the people of France on this most important question.
—( Hear, hear.) AN hen he saw the three Powers en•
forcing certain portions of the Treaty of Vienna—re-
jecting other parts which were favourable to public
i liberty, it was impossible not to regret that more ener-
getic measures had not been pursued at the time of the
Polish Revolution. It would be satisfactory to see the
protest made by Lord Grey on that occasion.—(Hear,