The Sun.
London, England, 1840-01-28 00:00:00

JAIPERIAL PARLIAMET.

HOUSE OF LORDS, JAN. 27.

The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woo-
sack at Five o'Cloek.

The Marquis of WESTMINSTER gave notice of

his intention to move a resolution respecting railways,
but in such a low tone of voica that it was impossible to
hear the purport of it.
Lord BROUGHA M had a petition to present from
Mr. Owen, who stated himself to be the discover of the
rational system of religion, praying for a full and fair
inquiry into the principles he advocates. That peti-
tion had been in his possession on last Friday evening,
but he had not had an opportunity of presenting it. He
had another petition from the same gentleman, which
had been placed in his hands since. He did not know
whether, in point of form, it could be received ;
he had but little doubt on it, however ; but still he felt
bound to state it to their Lordships. The petition
stated that the petitioner's views regarding the general
state of his society had been much misrepresented in
the newspapers of Saturday, purporting to be what fell
from a Noble Member of that House ; being pub-
lished in the newspapers, it had already gone forth to
every place where the English language was known ; he
therefore prayed for a full and °fair inquiry into
his principles at the bar of the House, in
order that his defence might be as widely circulated
as the unfounded charge made against him had been.
He (Lord B.) had forgot one circumstance, while he
had addressed a few words to the House on Friday.
The petitioner was not only a person whose whole cha-
racter for humanity was extremely alien and averse to
all those principles, with which he was charged, but
he was a man whose whole changes were of the most
peaceful nature, and he was bound to state that when
Mr. Wilberforce in the other House vouched for

his respectability and character for philanthropy
he had stated that Mr. Owen had such a regard for the
propagation of his principles, which he thought entirely
for the benefit of the human race, that he had reduced
a very large fortune to a small one, and that his philan-
throphy was so great that he had spent more than any 100
individuals, however charitable they might be. When the
British and Foreign School Societ) was first established,
he immediately transmitted a donation of 1,0001., which
was much more than the most magnificent gilt they had
got ; and to show that his philanthrophy was not secta-
rian, about twelve months after, when the National
School Society was established, he immediately trans-
mitted the munificent donation of five hundred pounds.
Such a person as Mr. Owen, whatever might be the
peculiarity of his views, ought, he (Lord Brougham-)
thought, to receive credit for sincerity and honest in-
tentions, after having spent scores of thousands of pounds
in acts of indisputable charity, in the doing of
which he could not possibly have an interested motive.
Often as that gentleman had been attacked, he had
never before alluded to the injustice which had been
done him ; but he now deemed it his duty to set
himself right with the public. For the discharge of
this part of his duty, he (Lord Brougham) knew that
he should be attacked in every variety of way—in-
deed, he should not wonder if, for what he had just
said he should be called an Owenite, but for all that he
was prepared. His Lordship was still proceeding, when
The Bishop of EXETER rose, and said that he had
not expected the matter alluded to by the Noble Lord
(Brougham) would have been brought forward that
night. He knew it had reference to a petition presented
by him (the Bishop of Exeter) on Friday night, but he
was not then prepared to go into it. He, however,
wished that the Noble and Learned Lord would move

for a Committee to go into the whole facts of the case.
He (the Bishop of Exeter) had not done so himself,
because he wished to avoid a course which might
savour too much of an inquisitorial character.
With regard to the character of Mr. Owen, he (the
Bishop of Exeter) did not know that he had said any
attacking that gentleman's character. The No-
_ _

ble Lord had stated that Mr. Owen had ruined him-
self through his liberality and eagerness to promote
the public good. He (the Bishop of Exeter) had
heard a different thing. He would not then enter into
a discussion as to the gentleman's character ; but he
trusted that the Noble Lord would move for a Commit-

:ee according to his (the Bishop of Exeter's) suggestion

Lord BROUGHAM then said that Mr. Owen was
not a ruined man as the Right Rev. Prelate had stated.
He (Lord Brougham) asked whether a moderate fortune
was a ruined fortune; if so, then he (Lord Brougham) was
a ruined man, and the Right Rev. Prelate himself was
a ruined man, for he was most earnest in the discharge
of his duties, and received but a moderate revenue. He
believed the Right Rev. Prelate bad been furnished
with statements that were incorrect, for he could assure
their Lordships that his (Lord Brougham's) in-
formation was that on which he could implicitly rely.
He should not adopt the course recommended to him
by the Right Rev. Prelate, because he thought enough
had been said at present to vindicate Mr. Owen, inas-
much as it would go forth that he denied the charges
against him, and, what was better, challenged inquiry.
He (Lord Brougham) had, moreover, borne testi-
mony to his character, and he thought it better
to let it rest at that, as he should be very unwill-
ing to promote an inquiry that would have a ten-
dency to propagate the knowledge of such extremely
bad, and, in his opinion, dangerous doctrines, since even
such absurdities might find converts among the unin-
structed part of the community, and particularly those
labouring under distress, when they promised to relieve
their sufferings, which would probably be the effect of
such proceedings being entered in the minutes of their
Lordships' House, and circulated in the channels of
public information. The Noble and Learned Lord then
' presented another petition from another section, Branch

A, of Mr. Owen's Society.
The Bishop of EXETER explained his statement
respecting Mr. Owen's circumstances, and then said he
had to present a petition most numerously and
most respectably signed by inhabitants of the
town of Huddersfield, praying their Lordship's
to institute such inquiry, and take such steps as might
seem desirable for the protection of religion, morality,
and private property ; and in moving it should lie upon
the table, he begged leave to state, that notwithstand-
ing what had fallen from the Noble Lord, and also
the Noble Marquis on a former occasion, he thought
it necessary that something more should be done,
and that he did not assent to the opinion that they
should abstain from the prosecution of crime, because it
would be the means of publishing it to the world. If
he thought greater danger would result from such an
inquiry he should be content not to act vindictively
against the propagators of such monstrous doctrines—but
he felt it absolutely necessary to take some steps to

vindicate justice and the morals and religion of the people.
He was not speaking on light foundation, for he had
that morning received letters from Hampshire, giving
an account of horrible and chilling atrocities uttered at
a Socialist meeting in the neighbourhood of a place
where they had lately purchased a farm of 500 acres to
try their experiment.
Lord BROUGHAM (lid not understmd that the
Noble Marquis at the head of the Home Department,
could have laid down a proposition in the abstract so ab-
surd as that in no case should publications or pernicious
principles he made the subject of prosecution for fear of
increasing the publicity. Often, though the present
publicity might be increased, eventually the spread of
the poisonous principles might be prevented. His ob-
jection was not so much to prosecution as to going on
in irregular debates on the subject in that House.
The Bishop of EXETER said he felt the inexpe-
diency of irregular debating, and he now gave notice that,

to morrow se'nnight he would move an- Address to the

Crown to take steps to prosecute persons who might be
guilty (he would not and could not be expected to
state the precise word) ; the effect would be to inter-
pose its protection on behalf of religion and morality,
against the horrible blasphemies of Socialism. He wished
to state that he had not, and that he did not wish to
animadvert on Mr. Owen's personal character. He had
spoken principally of some who had adopted these
principles, without that palliation which might be
alleged for Mr. Owen.
Lord BROUGHAM asked if the Right Reverend
Prelate could not fix Friday, as he feared he could not
attend to-morrow week.
Lord MELBOURNE objected to that.
The Marquis of NO RMAN BY denied that he had
stated anything so broad as that prosecutions should be
refrained from for fear of publicity. If the persons
down in Hampshire had reported to the Government,
his opinions would have been expressed as to the course
to pursue. But lie had received no such notice, and he
would now reserve himsolt for the motion of the Right
Rev. Prelate.
The Bishop of EXETER said, if more convenient to
the Noble and Learned Lord, he would fix this day
se'nnight for his motion.
Lord BROUGHAM had a petition to present from
Michael Broomfield, complaining
of the grant of 1,0001.
a-week, as he called it, which was proposed to be given
to the intended husband of the Queen.
On the motion of the Marquis of LONDONDERRY,
the petition was ordered to be read at the table.
It said that the labouring classes in the county of
Suffolk viewed with great alarm that it was pro.
posed to pay Prince Albert 1,0001. a-week for wages
out of their earnings; that the Queen could not wish
her husband to be paid in that manner. but that it had
been put upon her by some esil counsellors.—(Laugh-
ter.) Every poor working man or working woman
were obliged to keep their own out of their earnings,
and it was hard that so much had been given to a young
man from a long way off without a shilling of his own
and for living in idleness. If her Majesty were unable
to keep her husband, then he ought to go and
work for himself as was done by all the labour-
ing population of Suffolk. He loved h:s Church
and his Queen, and therefore he had been
bold enough to tell these things to the Noble Lords
and Bishops in
Parliament. He loved his Queen, and
would have liked on her marriage-day, to have gone to the
beer-house, and have drunk her health in a pot of beer;
but, as he could not afford it out of 10s. a week, he must
wish the same thing over his gruel at home, with his wife
and seven children. He prayed that the principles of
the Poor-law Bill be applied to rich and poor.

Lord MELBOURNE gave an inaudible answer to
a qu,...itiun put by Viscrriut Str,ingford..

SOUTH AMERICA.

Viscount ST RA NGFORD had read a very amusing .
description of a set of jovial merry men in the city, calling
thern,elves the Wide Awa/o Club. He was quite certain
that the Noble Viscount did nut belong to that club; and
if he and his colleagues were to apply to become members
they would be black-balled by a very large majority, be-
cause they were not wide awake. Was the Noble Vis-
count aware that Monte Video was at that moment in the
possession of the French troops?
Viscount MELBOURNE was aware of that fact.
The Earl of :ABERDEEN said the establishment of
French authority in some of the South American States
was a favourite project of the French Government at the
Restoration, but it had been firmly opposed by the Go-
vernment of this country. The whole conduct of the
French was irregular, and quite incompatible with all the
law of nations. To such an extent had the ir:egularity
n.w been carried, that it was difficult to say what was the
law of nations, for all was thrown into confusion by the re-
cent practices. The right of blockade was strictly a
belligerent right; but France was not at war with Buenos
Ayres. In former times, the usual practice was to make
reprisals, and by such a course injury was only inflicted on the
party accused. But France, by her blockade, was injuring
this country more than Buenos Ayres, with which she was
at war. British commerce with that country was
great, while that of France was comparatively
trifling ; and if the object of that power was to
do an injury to British commerce, he believed that France
could not have adopted a more effectual course
for the purpose than the blockade alluded to. Still that
blockade was continued, and the Noble Lord (Melbourne)
stated that he could hold out no hope of relief. Had such a
course as that now pursued by France been adopted by
any of the great despotic Powers, the country would have
been roused by it from one end to the other. It was true
we were on terms of friendly intercourse with France, but
if the blockade continued that friendship must be greatly
impaired. He mentioned this because he deemed it a ma-
nifest violation of treaties as understood in more civilized
times.

Viscount MELBOURNE explained in a very inaudi-
ble tone of voice. We understood him to say, that in con-
formity with official instructions, an inquiry had been insti-
tuted into the blockade of Buenos Ares by the British
Admiral on that station, and who reported that the
blockade would be but temporary. He could not but ad-
mit with the Noble Earl who had preceded him the inju-
rious results to commerce arising from that blockade, and
though he had before stated that he could hold out no
hope of relief, he did so, because it was impossible to pre-
dict any precise period for the termination of the hostilities
between France and Buenos Ayres ; but he hrd neverthe-
less expressed his most anxious desire for its early termi-
nation, in the effecting of uhich Government would lose
no opportunity to employ its best offices.—( Hear, hear.)
He did not like to hold out hopes which might not be rea-
lised, because unquestionably these hostilities had conti-
nued longer than he had anticipated. He believed that a
blockade was is itself a belligerent act, it was, in fact, to
all intents and purposes a declaration of war, and
it was in the power of the nation, against whom it was
adopted, to treat it as a declaration of war. It was in the
discretion of the nation against whom the blockade was

instituted to determine whether they should consider it as
such, but if they did not choose to treat it as such, it did
not take away from the nation instituting it the power of
acting as they thought proper.--( Hear, hear.) That was
the view he took of the blockade of Buenos Ayres by the
French. No one could deny the great evil of that state
of things, and the House might depend on it that her Ma-
jesty's Government would take all the means in their
power to bring it to a satisfactory arrangement as soon as
possible.
Viscount STRANG FORD hoped the Noble Viscount
would permit him to remind him, that last Sessicn he
stated that negotiations were then going on under the
mediation of Great Britain, and that, therefore, pro tanto,
the affair might be considered as nearly adjusted.
Viscount MELBOURNE said the fact of those nego-
ciations not having come to a favourable conclusion, made
him the more cautious of holding out any hopes that the
affairs of that province would be speedily adjusted.
Lord COLCHESTER trusted that in whatever ar-
rangements were made, care would be taken not to per-
mit any European nation to exercise any undue con'rol
over these South American provinces. So long as the
ports of Monte Video were open to European vessels, and
the commerce of British merchants, little need be appre-
hended, but if they were obliged to traverse the moun-
tainous district of the Brazils, it would in a great mersure

prevent their penetrating with heavy mercharidize into the
interior of South America. He hoped, on these grounds,
that no interference with their independence would be
permitted.
NATURALIZATION OF PRINCE ALBERT.
The Order of the Day for the second reading of the Bill
to make provision for Prince Albert having been read,
The LORD CHANCELLOR said, it would not be
necessary for him to occupy many moments of their Lord-
ships' time. The Bill was, in many respects, founded
upon one passed on the marriage of the Princess Char-
lotte with Prince Leopold, although in some particulars it

differed, inasmuch as the 3d claui'e empowered her Ma-
jesty to grant to Prince Albert such place and precedence
in Parliament and elsewhere, as she thought fit. When
the Bill passed for the marriage of the Princess Charlotte
and Prince Leopold, their Lordships would recollect that
her Royal Highness stood in a very different position. She
was not even then the heiress expectant ; and it was there-
fore impossible that Prince Leopold could have a
rank higher than that of the King's sons.—( Hear,
hear.) It was obvious that if another event had
taken place, and that the Princess had become the
Sovereign of these realms, another proceeding might
have been adopted to give the Queen's husband the rank
he was entitled to. The history of the country afforded
but few instances in which Parliament was called on to
provide for the consort of the Queen Regnant. There
were only two precedents, namely, Queen Mary and
Queen Anne. By.the treaty of marriage between Philip and
Mary it was provided that he should enjoy with the Queen
state, honour, and kingly name, and the provision to that
effect became the subject of an Act of Parliament. The
next year, let and 2d of William and Mary, an Act had
passed which made it highly penal to deny the title of
Philip to the kingly style and dignity, and so it stood
during that reign. The Noble and Learned Lord then
referred, in a similar manner as Lord John Russell had

done in the House of Commons, to the cases of Queen
Anne and Prince George of Denmark, and of the Princess
Charlotte and Prince Leopold, and concluded by moving
that the Bill should be read a second time.

The Duke of WELLINGTON, who was heard very
imperfectly, said he certainly was not anxious to discuss
this measure or oppose this Bill at the present moment,
but he thought so serious a measure ought not to be taken
into consideration by the House on the short notice they
had of its nature. The Noble and Learned Lord had laid
this Bill on the table on Friday night after the debate, and
it was entitled " An Act for the Naturalization of Prince

Albert, of Saxe Coburg and Gotha." He had asked the
Noble Lord, en a former occasion, when he consented that
the Bill should be read, and had had understood that it
was no more than a Bill in consequence of one that had
passed that House and the other House of Parliament,
for the second time on Monday, but not one word was said
on the clauses respecting precedency which were the im-
pot tant parts of the Bill ; the consequence was, that
nobody knew what the real contents of the Bill were, and
he (the Duke of Wellington) had read nothing of its
contents until yesterday ev3ning, when a Noble Friend
sent him a copy of the Bill, before which he had not the
least idea it was any thing but for the naturalization of
Prince Albert. He was sure, therefore, the Noble and
Learned Lord had taken the House by surprise which
should not have been done on a question of this descrip-
tion. He should, therefore, propose the adjout nment of
the debate to some day in the course of the week.
that the House might have opportunity of thinking on
this important matter.—( Hear, hear.) The titles of the
Bills quoted by the Noble and Learned Lord, not exactly
as precedents, but as Bills on a similar subject—the
title of the Bills with relation to prince George of Den-
mark and Prince Leopold of Saxe Cobourg. positively
stated. and the Bills themselves provided for precedency,
but in the title of this Bill there was not a word of it.
Under these circumstances he really thought it should be
the subject of consideration on a future occasion, as it was
desirable that it should be known precisely what it was in-
tended the Bill was to do. He should therefore beg
Noble Lords that the debate be adjourned until Friday
next.—( Hear, hear. )
Lord MELBOURNE said that it would certainly be
more in accordance to what had passed on former occa-

sions if the Bill passed without opposition. The Noble
Duke objected to the title of the Bill as not stating that
it provided for the precedency of Prince Albert, and so far
differed from former Bills. It could not be of great con-
sequence, or for the information of the Noble Duke, with
respect to the subject of the Bill, since it was perfectly
clear that a Bill of this nature must settle the rank and
station in the country of the person to whom it related,
otherwise he would have no rank whatsoever. The Noble
Duke also complained of his Noble Friend for not having
stated when he introduced it all the circumstances of the
case; at the same time he (Lord Melbourne) thought
the proper time for making explanation on the
subject tvas unquestionably on the second reading, which
his Noble Friend had not taken. The Noble Duke said
he wished the House to have further time for consideration ;
be regretted that, and thought it would have been better
if the usual course were taken on the subject—but unques-
tionably the Bill did differ, in this respect, from other Bills
on similar circumstances, as it gave her Majesty, in respect
to precedence, a larger power than was given in the ease
of Prince George of Denmark or Prince Leopold, but the
reason of the difference was the different situation of the
cases, the situation of parties, and in the dignity of their
situation. The Princess Charlotte was at the time of her
marriage only the grand-daughter of the possessor of the
Crown. He did not know what was the disposition of
Parliament on the subject before, but it was certain that
neither the Prince Regent nor other parties engaged in
that matter considered the arrangement as more than tem-
porary—there was pretty good evidence that such was the
intention of the parties to that transaction. The Noble
Duke asked bow was this power to be exercised? He had
no I,esitation in stating that it was intended to
be exercised to the full extent to which it was
given. If Parliament conferred the power of ;king so. it
was intended to give Prince Albert rank next to her Mi-
jesty, and before Princes of the Blood—this, he believed,
would meet with no objection whatever in the quarters
that might be supposed particularly affected, Now, as to
the Noble Duke proposing that the debate should be ad-
journed,:he thought it unnecessary to put off the reading,
and that it had better be read a second time, and con-
sidered the next stage. This was the course he should
propose. He was sorry there should be any difference on
the subject; but, at the same time, he could not object to
the course the Noble Duke pursued, and if further time
was required it must be given. —( Hear, hear.)
The Duke of WELLINGTON explained that he had
been entirely ignorant of the nature of the Bill. He knew
a Bill was necessary for the naturalization of Prince
Albert ; but as not a word of precedency was mentioned
in the title_
Lord MELBOURNE observed that it was always done
in Naturalization Bills.