The Sun.
London, England, 1840-02-22 00:00:00

He hesrd of forty sail ef. the line being- fitted o
with the greatest crave.—(hear, hear.) Now he con •
tended that, even with impressment, ;we could
not lit uwt 20 sail of the lie in a twelvemonth. sad then in
case pf wee what would become of the Colonies of the
country ? Then he was tole of the expeoee It was true
that a considerable outlay would he necessary, but the
money which had been uselessly squandered on th ft
coast of Spain, would have been sufficient for vie
purpose ; and then there was the expense of never
ending commission, which were issued in the country,
and kept the navy in a state of inefficiency.
Looking at the agitated state of the world, he was of
opinion that war might come all of a sudden, and if so, be
hoped that the statement of the Admiralty would be
amply realised, but he feared they would be geez tfy dis-
appointed.—k Cheers.)
Sir THOMAS COCHRANE (who spoke very indis-
tinctly) said the question of Naval Estimate's divided itself
into two parts—first, with reference to the aimarneaits on
foot in other nations ; and secondly, with regard to our
own force. On referring to our own Naval Estimate a, he
was told that the number of efficient seamen voted Isst
year was 35,260, and he was also told that 1,000
mon bad been added this year, for the express pur
pose of increasing the force of the vessels in
Commission. Now, he denisd that the efficient naval
force, last year, amounted to 35,000 men—he equally de-
nied the trifling addition of 1,000 to that force during the
present year. It would be in the recollection of the
House that it was only. of late years that the packet :ser-
vice had been handed over to the Admiralty, and this
service never could be available to increase the naval-force
of the country. It should also he ree(elected that a consl-
dcrable number of men were employed in the surveying ser-
vice. The total number of men emgloyed in the two
services last year amounted to 2,788, and this
year they amounted to 3 993. consequently one-
third of the number of these additional 1,000 men had
been added to there two services. Of the force remain-
ing, 2,000 were boyle and, taking two boys as one man, it
waled make the actual efficient naval force of the country
amount to only 31.07.2 Olen. There was, moreover, en.
other deduction, which went to a great extent in
weakening the naval force or the country, and that was.
the number of Small craft emp:eyed in Africa and the
We t ladies in the suppression of the." Slave-trade. It was
true that this was a service highly honourable to this;
cnentry—that it should be the only country employing a.
force and expending its revenue in petteng down this;
abominable traffic —( Hear, hear,) But glorious as it
was t.) this country so to exerei.e its influence it did most
materially deteriorate from the:efficiency of the na val ser-
vice, as these vessels could be considered as neither more
nor less than a sort of maritime police. He felt be bad
a perfect right to deduct five ships from the stated naval
force of the country, because when the Admirals were sent
out they were to have bad two legates, and instead me this
they asked to have ships with two decks, but without eh eie
lower deck guns, and without their full complement of men.-
The Admiralty had last year fairly explained the state of
this case. When, all of a sudden, whether urged by the
representations on that side of the House or not, he knew
their ships were armed and minced as ships of the line,
and their ships formed part of the squadron sent against
China, when, by the t.lundee of their cannon, they were
to destroy those unfortunate Chinese whom they could not
previously succeed in poisoning by their opium. This
showed the necessity of keeping up an efficient naval force;
for if the Government had not ordered their vessels to be
armed, without probably keying any very clear ideas at the
time as to why or wherefore, they would not have had these
vessels to send on this service. The three guard ships, he
would contend, were not effective. When the Right
Honourable Baronet the A:ember for Pembroke was;
at the head of the Admiralty, he had establ;shed
a 011ie; of ships called demonstration shies, wbich were
always in a state of preparation. What had become of
these demonstration ships ? They were told last year that
they had' been found practically of no use, when wanted
they had to undo all that bad been done—( Hear, hear,
from Mr. C. Wood)—arid that it was found preferable to
have their masts and rigging ready, and the ships laid up.
No doubt this might be the case, but it followed as &
corrollary from that proposition, that these three-deckers
were not in the same position as the demonstration, ships.
He recollected in 1815, on the return of Napoleon from
Elba, only ten days elapsed between the time, when Sir
Benjamin Hallowell hoisted his flag on board the Royal
Sovereign, and the time when that ship sailed out of
Plymouth Sound. Would such be the case now ? la
looking at the force of other nations, he found
that the French had sixteen ships :of the line,
seven frigates 50 guns.each, little inferior to our smaller
ships of war, and that the men in the employ of the navy
of France amounted to 32,000 men, exclusive of those
employed in the packet and surveying service. With rea.
gard to Russia, he found that in the Baltic they had one
ship of 120 guns ; three of 100, seven of 84, and nine-
teen of 74, making altogether thirty sail of the line, in ad•
dition to which she had in the Black Sea sixteen sail of
the line. It had been said, last year, that these ships were
hardly sea-worthy, but he had been informed by a gentle-
man who had seen them, that he had been astonished both
at the efficiency of the ships and the expertness of the
men. He would ask the House, if, looking to France
alone, they could be prepared to say that it would be pos-
sible, at this moment, in the event of a war, to reduce•
one single ship from the present establishment
for the defence of our own coasts ? He considered a war
with France would be the greatest calamity that could hap-
pen to the world at large, and a fearful responsibility would
rest on those who should attempt to sow discord between
the two nations.—( Cheers.) But looking to Russia and
America, and considering the delicate nature of the ques-
tion at present pending between this country and the
United States, he would ask if we ought to be content with•
the present amount of our naval force ? Neither the Pre-
sident nor the Government of the United States wished to
go to war with this country ; but the Government of that
country were weak when it came in contest with the pre-
judices of the people. The President bad said that be bad
requested the Governor of Maine to u-;e moderation ; but
if Maine got into a war. the States must at all
hazards support it. The House should recollect that
the insolence of a democracy always rose in proportion to'
the inability of opposing them, and nothing but the power
of carrying war in a few weeks into the heart of their own
country could prevent them from committing acts of ag-
gression, if the decision of the pending question should be
against their prejudices. When they remembered the
shoreness of the season in which troops 'could be sent to
that country, he felt they ought to be prepared ; and
looking at the position of Russia, France, and America be
thought the House must admit that the Navy Estimate;
of t his country were not on an adequate footing.
He would read to the House some documents connected
with the naval force of the country at present, and in
former times What was the state of our commerce in
1790? At that period our trade had been confined to the'
East Indies, the West Indian Islands. the Coasts of
Africa, and the United States of America. We bad then,
however, 15,000 vessels, and the value of our exports
amounted to 18,544 0001., and our imports to 17,783,0002
We had now, on the contrary, a host of colonies—we bad
for instance, Malta, the Cape of Good Hope, Trinidad,
and the greater part of Demerara. But what was more,
we had the commerce of the whole coast of Spanish
America, to every part of which our trade ex-
tended, and the ocean might now be said to be
• whitened with the sails of England. Our foreign
commerce at present employed 26,000 ships. Our exports
amounted to 105,170,000/, and our imports to 61,268,000/.
Our whole trade employed 38,000 vessels of nearly
11,000,000 of tons. That was the state of our trade as
compared with that of the year 1790. What was the
state of our naval force previous to that period? In each
of the years 1785, 1786, 1787, and 1788, we had employed
18,000 men. In 1789 we had 19,000. He would shove
how the naval force had been formerly employed. He
could not be mistaken on that point, for he had a tran-
script of an estimate presented in 1814. At that period'
their whole force abroad amounted only to 19 small vessels.
They had then in the Medway but two sail of the line.
They had but one in the Downs and one in the Thames.
They had then, however, in all 68 men of war. In 1790,
in consequence of a dispute with Spain respecting 11
miserable island ,on the American coast, Spain'
refused to yield to the claims of England, and this'
country had accordingly sent out an armament,
and-he found that the naval expenses of that year amounted
to no less a sum than 3,000,0001. We had sixty-eight
vessels occupied at the time. He would now show the
House how the naval force of the country had been main"
tallied in former times, and he thought that the principle
then adopted on the subject was the true one. He should
first observe, that it was to the maintenance of their Diva'
establishment they owed the respect which they naturalli
commanded, as being the first maritime nation in the
world. Those who had governed the country in other
times knew this well, and he trusted that the House would
not be backward if it should be necessary to follow such an
W2Pohrooa ttyeewcataroasr.,t
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hEnglishec r
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conduct
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that he ore
1691 ? He would allude to an address ofmontfaehnwePdaHroolnivaesmseettnoottbb-ine-1
• sovereign of that day. Parliament then stated that thee
considered it to be their ditty to represent to hi, Majesty'
that the power of England depended underd God, chieflyt_
highest importance to the security
on its strength at sea;
county
it of
hisnc
of the
gel‘rluzkijd,e.,i,o-dtt:ys wco(l,laistlidbeerritlienals, tToheeiveli-
otah.e smuhejta:ecbtertsrpY:h; te•dailyobni:s
by calling on the House to imitate the energetic
course whit+ the Commons of England hadadopted i°
former times
Lord PALMERSTON said, in his opinion, the eel'
stderatiotis which ought to guide a Government as to the
navy were three-fold. It was one question what should
i
be the amount of the ships possessed by the country, and
that considerati n oueht undoubtedly to depend on -be
general view of the naval rt sources of all those other na-
tions which had naval establishments It was an entireli
different question what portion of that force had from timid
to time been put into commission, and that depended 0°
the varying circumstances of the day. There was another
question—how that force should be distributed ? and that
also must be decided according to circumstances yet rita
veriable :,;;(1 tire ertain, trml)(sNlry ;o:d N')
Governownt twidng !he frr.t-
twe thentis to pace the aggregate amount of the navy c'n
such a footing as would be consistent with the perznanen