The Sun.
London, England, 1841-08-26 00:00:00

cf the articles which were at present the object of legis-

—aa-ensn, and thus it appeared that exception M as
the rule and the rule the exception.—(Hear, hear.) He
feared, notwithstanding the talents and abilities his
Noble Friend had displayed, his (Mr. Stewart's) side of
the House would gain nothing from him, unless he en-
larged his views upon that subject. There was one point
which had occasioned him some uneasiness, and that was
with reference to what fell from his lion. and Learned
Friend the Member for Bath. with reference to the case
of Mr. M‘Leod. And he did hope that the Right Hon.
Baronet opposite, or, some other Member of the Govern-
ment, maim refer to that painful subject, which, in his
opinion, his Hon. and Learned Friend had treated in a
manner which was unwise, ill-judged, and almost mis-
chievous.—("Hear, hear," from both sides of the House.)
These obserVations would reach America at the time of
NlaLeod'a trial, and what would be their effect ? Why
the Americans would read that at the opening debate
of a most important session such assertions as the
following had gone forth uncontradicted that
M`Leod was • amenable to the laws of the coun-
try which had seized him—that he must be tried
—that he might be found guilty, and if found
guilty, he must ~be hanged.—(Hear, hear.) Now he
(Mr. Stewart) was'. no lawyer, but it appeared to him
that there was a good deal too much of professional in-
tricacy in the statement of his Hon. and Learned Friend
last night. He would take, however, the common sense
and humanity of the case, and he must say that such a
statement was, in his opinion, very ill judged. He was
glad to find that upon a former occasion the Right-Hon.
Baronet opposite had so far identified himself with
M`Leod; as to say that whatever was done to M‘Leod
was done to that country. He (Mr. Stewart) had no
hesitation in-stating that, in his opinion, whatever was
done to M.Leod, considering that he acted under British
authority, was done to the British nation.—(Renewed
cheers.) That was the language which he wished to see
go forth, if it came from some proper authority in that
House, and not the sort of special pleading they had last
night.—(Hear and cheers.) He had taken the most im-
portant point iri- his .Hon. and Learned Friend's observa-
tion, and his Hon. and Learned Friend said that it was
an old quarrel between them, as regarded the relation
between that country and the colonies. With regard to
Canada, the first experiment of Mr. Pitt was a dangerous
one, and it was denounced by Burke and Fox,
the former of whom foretold that they were
planting the fruit of bitterness, which would after-
wards spring up and embarrass them.—(Hear, hear.)
There was another question alluded to by his Hon. and
Learned Friend he could not forbear referring to. His
Hon. and Learned Friend said he hoped the opium
which had been seized. by the Chinese Government
would be restored to the sufferers. In that case he was
satisfied that the honour and good faith of the country
would be tarnished, and instead of putting questions, in
his opinion the Chinese Government had no more right
to ask for the delivery and confiscation of the greater part
of that opium, than they had to ask for the delivering up
of cargoes now floating on the River Thames. It was
beyond the power and jurisdiction of the Chinese Go-
vernment, and was under the protection of British-ves-
sels. He (Mr. Stewart) was not an opium proprietor in
any way.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) He saw a smile
come over the countenance of his Noble. Friend oppo-
site, as if he thought him an opium-eater.—(Laughter.)
lie could assure him that he bad nothing more to do with
it than viewing the question upon general principles,
and he hoped that such opinions as those of his Hon. and
Learned Friend would not be allowed to prevail, but
that restitution would be had for every pound of opium
destroyed.—(Cries of" Hear, hear.") With regard to the
vote of confidence in her Majesty's Ministers,- he must
say, that with all their faults he preferred them to those
who were coming across the House to take their seats ;
and even if they had more faults than were laid is their
charge, he could not part without a sigh.from those who
had done so much good in so little time.—(Hear, hear.)
The lion. Mover of the amendment smiled of course,
because his catalogue was made up in a very different
spirit in which he (Mr. Stewart) would cast his up. But
he thought if the Hon. Member had got a simple narra-
tive of the ten Acts which they had passed in the course
of the ten years; it would puzzle the Hon. Gentleman,
cr any other men of that House, to point out where so
much good had been done by any other party.—(Hear.)
They had had an enumeration of their Acts last night,
and he would go over his list without comment. They had
Reform Act, the Negro Emanicipation Act, the Poor-
laws for England, the Poor-laws for Ireland; they had the
3ianicipel Corporation (England) Act, and the Munici-
pal Corporation for Ireland ; they had the English
'lithe Act, and the Registration of Births and Deaths Act.
—(lronical cheers.) He did not understand those cheers.
He would merely answer them by saying, the usefulness
of that Act was well known in the populous parts of the
country ; and those who had seen the evils it had coun-
teracted, and the good it had produced, could have no
other opinion.—(Hear,. hear.) Then there was the Cri-
minal Law Amendment Act, and though last, not least,
the Canada Union Bill. Here were ten Acts in the
course of tea years, and for these he gave them his most
unqualified thanks and approbation.—(Cheers.) With
regard to thaßudget, he admired it, and the principle
upon which it was projected ; but he must take from
them the merit of originality, for they bad no more claim
to originality as being its first propounders, than the
hum lle and unworthy individual then addressing the
House. The Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Dor-
s.2t had the merit of it. What did he find in a pam-
phlet entitled " Corn and Currencies," not got up has-
tily, but containing 100 pages, half-hound, and which
had toacheal a fourth edition ? Precisely the same
plans as were proposed by the Government. " The last
object was a steady supply of corn at a moderate price ;
let the Corn-laws be repealed, and let there be a con-
stant importation at a fixed duty"—(Cheers)--;;! at a
duty as I before stated equal to the burdens borne by
the land. Nor will it be wise to stop, even at this point,
for the landowner giving up this for the public good,
shall the East India interest and the West India Pro-
prietors l'or one day be suffered to maintain their ex-
clusive privileges ? Shall the consumer pay an exhorbi-
tent price for his tea and sugar, that particular interest
may be benefited ? and shall the nobility alone be the
suffiTers ? Let us adopt the sound principle of free
trade.— (Cheers-) But let us not limit their application
to the staple produce of the land. Let us destroy the
heavy duties on ti mbe r.— (Loud . cheers.) Why
should the expense of any man for building a ship or a
house, be applied as a partial protector to the colonies,
and since we are to have an open competition with a
foreign manufacturer, let us destroy the protecting
duties that at present exist." (Much cheering.)
Now the Government had no merit for it, for it
was clear that the whole was planned and printed by the
Right Hon. Baronet in his pamphlet, which had gone
through four editions ; and he now claimed of the Right
Hon. Baronet, when he returned to his place to return
also to his former opinions.—(Hear, hear.) If the Right
Hon. Gentleman was present, he would call upon him to
discuss his old opinions with his new friends ; to turn
to his right, and to discuss the Corn-laws with the Right
Hon. Baronet the ember for Kent ; and to turn to his left,
and discuss with the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for
Tamworth the currency question.—(Laughter.) If the
Eight Hon. Baronet would only discuss his new opinions
with his old friend, they would have him, like water,
finding his level at last.—(Laughter.) Before conclud-
ing, with many thanks to the House for the kindness
and patience with which it had heard him, he would
just remark to the Right lion. Baronet, that he had
read with great delight the graphic sketches he had made
in his speech at the close of the last Session. One was
with regard to a good man struggling with difficulties,
snd the other was a fishing sketch of bobbing for a
Budget.—(Hear, and laughter.) He feared that these
sk..tches would remain Cabinet pictures.—(Hear, hear).
`fa thanaht they should have had the good man strug-
:; with difficulties, and the Right Hon. Baronet, who
ralrlctmi out as the Chancellor of the Exchequer
§.tatien on his (Mr. Stewart's) side
of the house (Near) and that they would
find him battling with, difficulties in that position._.
(Hear, hear.) Thee, with regard to the fishing sketch.
They had had bobbing for a budget, and lately they had
had fishing for a majority, and having caught it and
hooked it, the Right Hon. Baronet appeared not to know
exactly how to land it.—(Laughter.) His brothers of
the angle in that House; knew well that it was easier to
hook L. fish than to land a. fish.—(Hear, hear.) They all
recollected the lilies of Pindar upon Isaac Walton, which
he thought might be applied to the Right Hon. Baronet's
present position— •
" And when he tries to pull thee out,
God give thee strength, thou little trout,
To pull old Isaac in."
—(Much laughter and cheering.) With regard to these
principles of commercial reform, the course which the
House was now about to adopt might decide the fate of
parties for a time ; but what was far more interesting to
them, was that it would decide the financial prosperity
and commercial features of the country. To that end he
was sure it was hastening, and its thorough completion
would be secured by the good sense and good feeling of
the people of that country, although it had been
boasted, not very tastefully last night, that the
majority of the country Gentlemen in that
House were ready, scythe in hand, to cut them down.
He thought the returning good sense and the interests of
the country would enable them ultimately. to maintain
their ground against any force that might be brought
against them.—(Hear, hear.) He could assure the Right
Bon. Baronet that thitt question should have no rest
until it was settled., and that he, as an humble individual,
so long as he stood -there the representative of the indus-
trious and worthy, but limy suffering classes, would give
him, and the Government to which he belonged, no rest
by day or by night—(Much cheering and laughter)—
until those principles were rescinde on the Statute-
book, and the laws which at the present moment brought
destitution and suffering on the people, were expunged
for ever.—(Cheers.)

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ti 41♦11.

Mr. S. ("RAIVFORD said there were many parts of
the Address in which he could not concur. It was
stated that the great Powers of Europe were united
for the purpose of preserving the peace of Europe ; but
he could only regard that as a species of despotism for
the purpmo of exercising an undue influence over the
rights and interests of the people. He could not, there-
fore, concur in that passage of the Speech. Again, they
were desired to express their agreement with her Ma-
jesty that the extraordinary expenses should be provided
for ; but he could not express his concurrence in that
part of the Address. In his opinion, the war with
China was one of the most unjust that ever
was undertaken by a nation. It was a war to
establish a contraband trade, and if any lives were lost
a charge of murder might be preferrred against those
who were the instigators • of it. He would come to that
part of the Address in which he might, be supposed to
concur. They were called on to revise the import du-
ties, and he was persuaded that they were a great evil,
and the sooner they were removed from the Statute-
book the better.
the% With regard to the repeal of
Corn-laws, he not exactly understand
what the Address ,meant. He objected to the prin-
ciple of an
Bs. auty and he thought they
should abolish the whole of the vexatious imposts called

the Corn-laws, which conferred protection upon only a
section of the community ; for It was well known that
the only parties benefited were the landlords, who were
enabled thereby to obtain 'higher rents. There were .
other matters in the Address- to which he wished to al-
lude ; and he must be allowed to express his regret that
there was no notice in it of the necessity of reforms,
which were advisable for the advancement of the liberties
of the people, by giving them greater influence in the
selection -of Representatives of that House. He had
hoped that there would be smile- recommendation from
Ministers for the extension of the suffrage to the work-
ing classel—that the use of the ballot would be recom-
mended as a protection of their rights—and that
the duration of Parliaments should be shorter.—(Hear.')
There was another subject to which he would advert, and
which had been alluded to by one or two Hon. Mem-
bers—he meant the English amended Poor-law. It had
been said that the party on the other side were sharers in
the passing of that law, but he was disposed to condemn
both parties in an equal degree on account of it. It was
one of the most iniquitous laws that was ever passed.
Though he did not defend the abuses of the old Poor-law
yet he conceived it to be a cruel invasion of the right of
the people to take from them that law so long as they
were subject to the Corn-law taxation. He had the
honour of .representing a manufacturing district
and had witnessed the distress that existed there.
But until he had examined into the subject, he had no
idea of the extent to which that distress existed. The
people of that district (Rochdale) traced all those evils
to the operation of the Corn-laws. He advocated the
total removal of all restrictions. He thought a fixed
duty would be a fixed injustice. It was a crying evil
that any law should exist which raised the price of food
for the purpose of benefiting any particular class. With
regard to the amendment that had been proposed to the
Address, he could not see any inducement whatever to
support it. That amendment did not offer any advan-
tage which was not presented by the Address, and
he could not, therefore, give his vote in its favour.
Mr. COBDEN would endeavour to show his sense of
the indulgence of the House, by not tresspassing on
its time. He felt some difficulty in knowing how to
treat the questions which were pladed before the House.
There did not seem to be a very right understand-
ing of the position of Honourable Members
on the present occasion. There appeared to
be a difference of opinion as to the objects for
which they were sent to that House as to the nature of
the last general election. He had heard it said that the
last election was not a test of public opinion on the sub-
ject of moropoly. The last general election took place
under these circumstances. It was recommended to the
House to set about the immediate reduction of taxa-
tion, and that recommendation was accompanied by
an assurance on the part of the Executive
that not only would the reduction not impair the revenue
but would actually increase the resources of the national
Exchequer. That, after all, was the question which led
to the dissolution of the last Parliament. Ho was glad
to hear from the other side that the people of England
who had been renowned for their patience, their ignorant
patience of taxation, were not all at once become enamoured
of monopoly. Another difficulty he had in addressing the
House arose, not from its being said that the Corn-laws
ought not to be repealed, but from what they were told,
that they must not enter into those topics mentioned in
the Speech from the Throne, but rather that they were
to consider whether Government was worthy of the con-
fidence of the House. Hon. Gentlemen on the other side
of the House adverted to the policy of Government with
respect to China, Canada, &c., but if they chose to leave
out of the discussion those important topics of the Corn-
laws and the other propositions of Ministers, he saw no
reason why Hon. Members on the Ministerial side, who
knew that these subjects were of far more consequence to
the people of this country than the affairs of China orNew
York, should not enuciate their views on those questions.
They should do their duty to the people and pay that tribute
of respect and deference to her Majesty, which she
,has
a right to expect from that House. He was but a young
Member of the House, but he had been accustomed to read
its transactions and he thought it used to be the custom in the
olden time for Hon, Members, particularly Conservative
Members, to treat the Speech from the Throne as
something very nearly appertaining to monarchical
dignity. He did not think it was customary to
throw in the Ministers as the primary personages,
He would for a moment detain the House by glancing at
those great questions now propounded from the Throne.
With respect to the food-tax, he could not believe that
the three millions -of people who petitioned the House
on this subject were not sincere in their wish for
the total and unconditional repeal of the taxes
on bread and provisions. He was sincere in
that wish himself, and he believed that the three mil-
lions were sincere, because they knew what they asked
was just. What were those bread taxes ? They were
taxes levied on the people by Gentlemen on the other
side, who had such sympathy with them when they made
them paupers. Those Honourable Gentlemen would
not deny his right to consider this question as
it affected the working classes. Twenty millions
of people belonged to the working classes, and one mil-
lion depended for support on the public mass. He
claimed from Hon. Gentleman opposite, that, in their
sympathy, they would take into consideration the case
of the twenty millions who were in the situation de-
scribed by the Right Hon. Baronet. They were claim-
ing the aid of their . support, because they
presented one of the sublimest spectacles—honest
hard working men struggling to obtain subsist-
ence. The amount of taxation paid by the mass was at
the lowest estimate 40 per cent. The taxation was at
the least 40 per cent. above the price which would oe
paid if there was a free trade in corn. He knew that
Hon. Gentlemen opposite, when they took 40s. as the
price of corn, made the taxation 50 per cent., but
he would be content to say 40 per cent. lie
would now call their attention to the Report issued
from that House on the state of the hand-loom weavers.
From that Report he. would give them the amount of
earnings of a head of a family per week. It was stated
in the Report as 10s, and that was by no means an un-
fair estimate. The Report also stated that each
family expended ss. out of that sum in bread.
The amount of taxation in that sum was 25., and thus
the labouring man who earned 10s., paid 20 per cent.
taxation on bread. Let them go further up, and they
would find that the family with an income of 40s. per
week paid but 5 per cent., and if they ascended
higher in the scale till they came to the
noble family with an income of 200,0001. a-year,
they would find that that family consumed no more
bread than that whose income was but las., and that
the taxation on that noble family amounted to but one
half-penny per cent.—(Laughter and ironical cheers
from the Opposition, and counter-cheers from the Minis-
terial side.) He was not aware whether Hon. Gentle-
men opposite laughed at the monstrous injustice
or at the humble individual who so imperfectly stated
it. He repeated that the taxation on the nobleman's
family was but id. per cent., whilst on the family of the
labouring man it was 201. per cent. Suppose a law
were designed, which was to be similar in its effects, he
did not think there was a man in the House who
would dare to propose such a law. It was a tax
levied, not for the purposes of the State, but for the
benefit of the richest of the community.—(Cheers.)
That was a fair statement of the bread-tax.—(Laughter
from the Opposition.) He had no sympathy with the
incredulity of Hon. Gentlemen opposite, but he was
convinced that, as 'Christian men, if they felt the
grievances of the bread-tax, they never would for a
moment lie down to rest in peace, if they voted in fa-
vour of its continuance. In no other country in the
world, but in England and Holland, had a Government,
however distressed for money, ever had recourse to a
tax on bread to increase their revenue.—(Hear.)
He was aware that gentlemen might point to laws passed
on the importation of corn elsewhere. He knew they
might talk of the import duties in France, Spain, and the
United States of America, but he was prepared to show
that in those countries the export of corn, one
year with another, was on an average, and there-
fore no import duties could operate with them as
with us.—(Hear, hear.) But he believed that there was
to be some modification of this question, a " set off," as
it was called, that the working classes were to receive
some protection by this law, and he was well aware that
Hon. Gentlemen on the other side would not admit that
monopoly was a test of distress, but promised them a pro-
tection arising out of the bread-tax. He remembered the
Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire propounded
this doctrine of protection at his election, and as it came
from so light an authority, he would leave other
Honourablethe Gentlemen, who had held similar doctrines
hustings, to take up the doctrine propounded
by the Noble Lord. He (Lord Stanley) told them that
the manufacturers wanted the repeal of the Corn-laws,
because they wanted to reduce wages.—(Cheers.) That
unless by the repeal of the bread tax they could
reduce wages, they would not be able to compete with
foreigners,
and 'therefore they would derive no benefit
from the repeal.
ththeeniNo _
They could reduce wages, while if on
thee repeal of the tax
would be no benefit to the
they did reduce wages, it
working man.
was the doctrine of
Let. Thatun
(Mr. Cobden) remind him
(Mr.
had never been allowed to
misrepresented in Inftohrawt
when
that the parties so
s
the Hon. Member for Wol-
verhampton (Mr. Villiers, to whom for his distinguished
t t etheir
and persevering services e, together with
millions, must
ever feel obliged—(Hear,
-ear)--two years and a half
ago proposed that those who agitated the repeal of the
bread-tax should be heard at the bar, the House
scorned their petition, and having denied them a hearing
misrepresented their motives.—(Cheers.) But he would
take the case as given by the Noble Lord. He would
not say that the Noble Lord had wilfully misrepre-
sented it, but he must contend that he had misappre-
hended their case. If he then could be in error with his
brilliant talents, other Hon. Gentlemen might have mis-
apprehended
it also. Those who advocated the re-
peal of the Corn-laws, avowed their object to be that
they might be allowed the right—for they claimed it as
a right—to exchange the produce of their industry for
the production of other countries ; and atthe same time
they not only expressed their willingness, but their
anxious desire, that all duties for protection, as it
was called, levied on articles of the manufactures
in which they were engaged, should likewise be
removed, and that free and unfetterred intercourse
between nations should be carried out.—(Cheers.) He
then came to the operation of this principle on wages ?
and labour. How could this mean reduction of wages .
If he understood what it meant, it was increased trade.
They did not wish to reduce trade, but they claimed the
right to change their manufacture for the corn of other
countries, and they maintained that, by doing
so, they would increase and extend trade.—
(Hear, hear.) And how could that be done
except by creating an increased demand for labour ?
(Cheers.) And how could they create an increased
demand for labour without Increasing the wages of
working men ?—(Cheers.) But there was another fal-
lacy in the Noble Lord's statement on this occasion—
that the object of the Anti-Corn-law League was to re-
duce wages to enable them to competewith foreigners. He
(Mr. Cobden) found that they could now compete
with foreigners. He found they could sell cheaper

than other countries If not, how did they sell in neu-
tral trarkeNt in oompetition with other countries ? We
sold in New York every article manufactured for export
in competition with other countries, and if we could
manufacture and sell in New York cheaper than foreign-
ers, where was•the protection that could be given to the
home producers ? It was the foreign market that
fixed the price of the home market—(Hear hear.)
Did Hon. Gentlemen suppose that any one would send
away 3,000 miles, articles for sale, if they could get 2,
better price at home ? But he saw in this fallacy of
wages that which lay at the bottom of all the difficulties
of the question. Itw as the difficulty of just and honour-
able minds, for he did not deny that there were many
conscientious supporters of the present law.—(Hear.)
He saw no relation between the price of food and other
articles, and the price of labour, when that labour was
in a wholesome and natural state. He could understand
that in the slave-owning States of America and Cuba
the price of labour was regulated by the price of pro-
visions. If it' would not be invidious to allude to it,
there was another stage in the labour market—the la-
bourers in the agricultural districts. These labourers,
whose wages had reached the minimum according to
their habits of life, were told they had their rate of
wages raised when the price of provisions advanced.
And why was it ? Was it because the price of food in-
creased the demand for the labour of the agriculturalist, 0.1
was it given as charity, because the labourers' wages
had been brought to that scale that they could not
live and perpetuate their race unless they were allowed
a modicum of 18d. or 2s. to increase their wages.—
(Hear.) Then, he came to another stage in the labour
market—the labdurers in the manufacturing and commer-
cial districts. There the rate of wages had no
more connection with the price of food than
the changes of the moon.—(Hear.) There the
rate of wages depended entirely on the demand for
labour. The market for labour was extensive, and would
be more so if theq would allow it; and if they allowed
it, it would continue in a sound and wholesome state.
Half of the population were not employed, and if they
continued these restrictions, they would bring the manu-
facturing population to the point at which the agricultu-
ral population were ; and then they would come forward,
giving them what would be a mere allowance to paupers,
though they said, that, as the price of food was raised,
they had raised the rate of wages.—(Cheers.) He now
dismissed this questiou of wages, for it was one which
he thought must be again and again raised in that
House, and would proceed to consider that important
state of the manufacturers, and commercial and agricul-
tural labourers which had called forth their sympathies,
and must do sd again. They had heard something of
the condition of the labouring population in the north, and
he had lately an opportunity of seeing by peculiar means,
a _report of the state of the popuation in almost all
parts of the country. They were aware that an important
meeting was held- in Manchester about a week ago.—
(Ironical cheers from the Opposition.) He understood
those cheers, but he would not pause in his argument,
though he would say a word respecting them by and
by. He had seen a body of ministers, of all denomina-
tions, amountiug to 650—(Hear, hear)—assembled from
all parts of the country, at an expense of from three to
four thousand pounds to their congregations, and they
brought forward the most important statements of facts
in relation to the condition of the labouring population
ever brought together in any place. He had had an op-
portunity of reading these statements, and he learned
from them that in every district of the country, not only
manufacturing but agricultural, there was evidence, on un-
impeachable authority, that the condition of the labour-
ing population had deteriorated woefully during the last
ten years, and especially during the three last years that had
transpired.—(Hear, hear.) And in proportion as the
price of the food of the people increased, just so was their
comforts diminished. He had seen statements of reports
from infirmaries, workhouses, savings'-banks, &c., and
all bore testimony that the great mass of her Majesty's
industrious subjects were now in a worse condition, and
were receiving less wages—that there was a greater
amount of misery, crime, and destitution, than at any
former period. Now, one word as to the cheers. He did
not come there to vindicate the conduct of those Christian
men in having assembled to take these subjects into their
consideration. There were assembled ministers of all de-
nominations, and if Hon. Gentlemen sought to cast re-
proach on these divines, they would at the same time cast
- reproach on the great body of professing Christians in this
country. He thought the facts adduced to the con-
ference were a sufficient justification for their meeting
on the subject, and he was glad that when men in high
places acted unjustly by the poor, persons should be
found sufficiently honest to say to them as was said of
old, " Thou art the man."—(Cheers.) He would now say
one word on the importance of this novel and
unprecedented movement. The Noble Lord (Lord
Stanley) knew something of the ability of these worthy
men, for he told the House in 1833, that the moment
the religious community took up the question of slavery
that agitation became effective.—(Hear, hear.) He
believed this agitation would be attended with a like
result. The Hon. Gentlemen then referred to the de-
claration of the Duke of Wellington last evening, that
the condition of the labouring population of the country
was superior to that of any other, and said he remembered
the same illustrious personage about 10 years ago stating
that the old boroughmongering Parliament was the perfec-
tion of human wisdom.—(Cheers.) He should not be
surprised if his late declaration was also the precursor of
a far greater change than that contemplated by the Go-
vernment.—(Hear, hear.) He wished also to say one
word to the Right Hon. Baronet, who was fond of fbrti-
fving his statements by the authority of Mr. Huskisson.
The Right Hon. Baronet had propounded the will of that
great man, but seemed to have forgotten that there was
a codicil to it. On the 25th of March, 1830, on
the occasion of Mr. P. Thompson's motion on the
subject of taxation, Mr. Huskisson said, " It is any un-
alterable conviction that you cannot entertain the pre-
sent Corn-laws, and preserve permanent prosperity and
private contentment ; that these laws may be repealed
without injuring the landed interest is my firm belief:"
(Cheers.) This was the opinion of Mr. Huskisson, and
in the name of that illustrious man he protested against
his opinions being misrepresented in that House. (Hear,
hear.) If then this was his opinion respecting the effect
of these laws in 1830, what would it have been in 1841,
could he have witnessed the accumulation of distress that
had taken place since that period ?—(Hear, hear.)
Let the Right Hon. Baronet carefully consider that
prospect. Let him go back to 1830, and compare the
condition and prospects of the country at that time with
our present state. He (Sir Robert Peel) would find
that the cause of our deviation from the state in which
the country was' placed in 1830, was not the springing
up of a natural trade. In the years from 1831 to 1836,
the exports to America increased, in the former year,
by 120,000 ; in the latter, by one million. But in those
years goods were sent to America, and exchanged for
railway shares, and bank shares, and for State bonds.
Those goods were given on credit, and were never paid
for.—(Hear, hear.) There was, at the same time, an
increase of one hundred in the number of banks in
this country ; and it was the expense of the
circulation, and the fictitious stimulus given to the
commerce, together with an unusual succession of abun-
dant harvests, which enabled the Ministers to proceed
smoothly in their course, notwithstanding the Corn-
laws.—(Hear, hear.) Had the Hon. Baronet any plan,
by which, in 1841, he could raise up a system of real
prosperity ?—(Hear, hear)—or was he prepared with any
scheme by which he could create an artificial one ? If
he relied upon the latter, he would find that disappoint-
ment and distress would follow more rapidly than ever.
—(Hear, hear.) But unless he could effect either of
these two things, he could not raise the money necessary
to meet the exigencies of the State, and .he thanked God
that no Ministers in this country could do without
money—(Cheers and laughter)—and they could not get
the money without trade and commerce.—(Renewed
cheers.) The landowner who resided in Rome or
Naples did little to supply the money.—(Hear.) But
every Gentleman knew that when trade and commerce
improved the revenue was flourishing.(Hear, hear.)
But just in proportion as the landowners prospered by
the high price of food and the miseryEof the many, the
revenue declined. With these few remarks—(Loud
laughter from the Tories, responded to by cheers from
the Liberal benches)—with these few remarks he would
conclude. He did not call himself either Whig or Tory ;
but he was a free trader.—(Cheers and a laugh.) He
was a decided enemy to monopoly, and he gave the
Whig Ministers credit for coming out from the ranks of
the monopolists, and meeting him three-fourths of the
way. If the Right Hon. Baronet would only advance
one step further he would be glad to shake bands with
him, if he would allow him.—(The Hon. Gentleman sat
down amidst loud and repeated cheers.)
Mr. BAILLIE said, it had not been his intention to ad-
dress the House on this occasion, but for the statements
made by the Hon. Member for Manchester, who moved
the Address, and the Hon. Member who had just sat
down, that the distress now unhappily prevailing was
owing to the existence of the present Corn-laws. They
were both representatives of manufacturing districts, and
they ought to be good authorities. But he trusted that he
should be able to show, before he sat down, that there never
was a more fallacious proposition put forth to the House
and the country.—(Cheers and a laugh.) If he were per-
suaded that the repeal of the Corn-laws would benefit the
great body of the people, he would give his vote
for it, let the consequence to particular interests
be what they might—(Hear, hear)—as it was
the duty of Parliament to legislate, not for
classes, but for the whole people.—(Cheers.) He
thought, however, that Ministers were justly accused of
creating a bad feeling between the agricultural and ma-
nufacturing classes.—(Tory cheers.) He would ask,
however, had the increase of manufactures tended to in-
crease the happiness of the people ?—(Hear.) Had it
tended to increase the wages of the labourers ? He
would prove that it had not done so.—(Hear, hear.) He
would prove in the first place, that in the last twenty
years the manufacturing products of the country bad in-
creased more than twenty fold, and at the same time the
wages were excessively reduced.—(Hear, hear.) Whilst
the masters were making large fortunes, the ope-
ratives were suffering the keenest misery.—(Hear.) He
held in his hands returns, from which it appeared
that the official valtte in the export of cotton manufactured
goods NI as, in 1831, 16,731,7091.; it gradually increased
to 58,471,658/. in 1814. In other branches of manufac-
ture the increase had been of corresponding magnitude.
In the meantime what had been the prosperity of the
operatives ? In 1814 the wages of the weaver were 265.
a week. In 1819 they were 14s. 5d ; in 1823, 9s. 4d. ;
cpoeur nted cent.
for in
by thet h
e twenty
existenc y
in 1828, 6s, 6d. ; in 1833, ss. 4d. ; and they were now
about the same rate. That was a reduction of about 79
eeaorfs.thelpVraessetnhtact
Corn
-laws
--(Hear, hear.) He thought they must look to other
causes, such was the improvement of machinery, which
enabled the master to substitute the labour of children for
that of adults.—(Hear.) He was credibly informed that
in this way 50,000 adults were annually thrown out of
employment, and a frightful increase of mortality was
the consequence, as he could prove from the returns
which he held in his hand. In Glasgow the mortality
in 1832 was one in forty ; in 1834 it was one in 24i.—
(Cheers and counter-cheers.) He entreated the House

to consider the vast amount of human misery which
must have been inflicted here.— (Renewed cheering on
both sides.) He had heard much of misery in the slave-
countries— -in Cuba and the Brazils—but it was left to
the manufacturers of Great Britain to produce such an
amount of misery; as was proved by this mortality.—
(Cheers and counter-cheers.) Having thus proved—
(Laughter, and cries of " Oh, oh.") He did not
know what gentlemen were cheering at.—(Renewed
laughter, responded to by Tory cheers.) The
increase of misery bad kept pace with manufactures.
He would now briefly show what the effect had been of
capital employed in the cultivation of land. In the last
20 years vast districts of land had been brought into
cultivation, especially hi Scotland. The returns upon
that capital had not been so magnificent as upon that
engaged in manufactures ; but it had given employment
and comfort to large numbers of the people, who would
be compelled to resort to the manufacturing towns,
and swell the mass of misery there, if the Corn-laws
were repealed; for the necessary consequence would be,
that those lands would be thrown out of cultivation.—
(Tory cheers.)
Mr. BIIOTHERTON felt called upon to answer the
the statements of the Hon. Gentleman opposite, who had
just sat down. The Hon. Gentleman said that manufac-
tures were the cause of the distress, and that it was
the interest of the country to legislate in favour of agri-
ture and against manufactures.—(Cheers and cries of
" No, no" from the opposition.) All that the commer-
cial interest asked for was equal laws—(Cheers.) Minis-
ters were accused of fostering a bad feeling, which was
really raised by the demand of the agricul-
turists for unequal laws and unjust protection.--(Cheers.)
'The manufactures of this country had considerably in-
creased of late years, and yet the artisans were not paid
one-third of the wages they were receiving 20 years ago.
The price of manufactures also was not one-third what
it had been 20 years ago. When the Corn-law had
been passed 25 years ago a piece of calico which was
then worth 20s. would not now bring more than ss. ;
there had been no doubt during that period great im-
provements in machinery, but prices had more than pro-
portionably decreased. Now, what had been, on the
other hand, the case with corn ? The price of corn in
1815, when the Corn-law had been passed, was 645. the
quarter ; and although it had since been introduced into
an agricultural system the price had been constantly in-
creasing since ; so that the price of corn was now higher
than in 1815, although the price of manufactures
had decreased by one-third during the same period.
Since the year 1815 the price of corn had been 50 per
cent. higher in this country than on the Continent; and
the manufacturers had to pay at least a tax of
100,000,000 E since the Corn-law had been passed. They
had to pay 74,000,0001. more for the price of corn
during the years 1837, 1838, 1839, and 1840 than the
four preceding years. It had been ascertained that
while a manufacturing establishment paid, in 1825,
23,00C1. in wages, the artisans expended only 11,5001. in
purchasing food, leaving the rest for the purchase of
other comforts ; but from investigations which took
place-sin 1839 it appeared that instead of 11,500 L,,
they had paid 18,504 for food, leaving only 5,0001. for
clothing and other -neees!asies of life. Taxation now
pressed unequally and unfairly upon different classes.
And what was the remedy of the Right Hon. Baronet
for such a state of things ? The population was yearly
increasing at the rate of 400,000 per annum ; and how
were they to be employed ?—(Hear, hear, hear.)
Agriculture could not employ them, and they could not
be compelled to emigrate to foreign countries—they
could not be transported, and they could not prevent
them coming into existence. But they might be em-
ployed by extending their commerce, and they would
render the people prosperous and happy. It had been
ascertained that out of 10,000 families in Manchester
2,000 had not more than ss. a week to live on. It was
impossible to exaggerate the distress in the manufacturing
districts. In the bough which he represented 1,500
houses were now unoccupied ; many mills were working
short time, and others had stopped altogether;
thousands were unemployed—and he would ask if ma-
nufacturers were to be ruined what was to become of
the landed interest ? Under the present system the
means of the poor man were taxed 50 per cent. while the
means of the man with 5001. a year were only taxed 1 per
cent. The agriculturists need not fear a repeal of the Corn-
laws, for in proportion as manufactures flourished would
they be benefited. Manufacturers never make fortunes
for themselves without also making fortunes for the agri-
culturists, as might be evidenced by the rise which had
taken place in the value of lands in the neighbourhood
of such towns as Manchester, without any exertions on
the part of their proprietors. Some Hon. Gentlemen
appeared to think that this country might prosper with-
out manufactures. Now he (Mr. Brotherton) entirely
differed from that opinion. We had a debt of
800,000,0001., and land alone could never pay the inte-
rest of such a sum. He would maintain, too, that there
were no burdens upon land which would warrant the
landlords in taxing the community, for the purpose of
increasing their own incomes. If they were determined
on keeping up their present establishment, let the public
be fairly and openly taxed for the purpose, that
the country might know the real state of the case ;
but let them not impose an enormous tax upon the
national industry as at present under false pretences.
For his part he was convinced that by the adoption of a
liberal course of commercial policy, by removing monopoly
and legislating for the many instead of the few, they
would effectually promote the prosperity of the country.
Let the industrious classes be allowed to receive a fair
reward for their labour, and to exchange their
commodity in the best market, and they
would be enabled to purchase these comforts
which it was the wish of every honest man they should
enj oy.—(Cheers. )
Mr. H. GRATTAN commenced by reminding the
House that the Hon. Member for Inverness (Mr. Bailley)
who had a short time previously addressed the House,
was the Hon. Gentleman who had applied, on a former
occasion to Parliament for a sum of no less than 40,000/.
or 50,0001. for the purpose of relieving his distressed
countrymen who could not support themselves in Scot-
land.—(Cheers and laughter.) He had only failed from
the fact of his witnesses having broken down; one of whom
endeavoured to prove that the Highlanders were in a state
of absolute starvation, while another maintained that
they subsisted upon , kelp. But as the House was of
opinion that Scotchmen could live exceedingly well
upon kelp—(Laughter)—the application was refused.
The Gentlemen might be disposed to find fault with the
silence of Irish Members. The Gentlemen ought not to
complain of silence, for it was their forte, but it was not to
be inferred that Ireland was not determined on protesting
against the return of the party opposite to power. It
was also to be remarked that it appeared from the re-
cent Irish elections that the popular feeling in Ireland
wi s decided y favourable to a repeal of the present Corn-
laws. He did not think the conduct of Hon. Gentlemen
opposite, in moving Vie Address before the House, was
respectful to her Maj:!sty. He was sure too it was un-
precedented, and that it indicated a degree of arrogance
which nothing could justify. When Hon. Members
heard- the sentiments which fell from the gracious lips
of virtue and goodness—(Laughter)—they should have
returned a more courteous reply to the Speech. He
could not but lift his voice upon that occasion against
the scandalous proceedings which had been witnessed at
the late election. The proceedings at Ludlow and Cam-
bridge sunk into utter insignificance when compared to
the monstrous bribery, the corruption, and that system
of intimidation—(" Oh, oh," from the Opposition)—
which had been practised at the late election. The pro-
ceedings at Ludlow and Cambridge were but tritons
of the minnows," when compared to those monstrous scenes.
Those individuals who sat opposite had been returned by
majorities of the various constituencies of England, but
they had been returned by something more—they had
been returned by money, which had been advanced be-
cause the parties knew it would be paid back to them
again. In one borough in which there were 180 elec-
tors, one vote had cost 700/.-5001. had been advanced
by one candidate, and 2001. by another.—(Hear, hear.)
He congratulated the Right Hon. Baronet on his ma-
jority, and on the means by which his victory had been
obtained. But he would never sit in any assembly with-
out lifting up his voice against such proceedings. The
name of virtue; it seemed, was derided by Hon. Gen
tlemen opposite—(Cheers)—but what relief could the
people expect of the party which returned the ma-
jority of Members to that House so lost to
every sense, of virtue and honour ? It was the
duty of the House to correct those evils, and he
trusted they would probe them to the the bottom. But
the proceedings at the elections in England shrunk into
insignificance when compared with the intimidation
practised in Ireland.—(Loud Tory cheers.) In one
place he had himself seen troops drawn out in such a
way that no voter could come to the booth —(Cheers
and laughter from the Tory benches.) He spoke of
what he had himself witnessed. The horse of one of
the soldiers had trodden on his (Mr. H. Grattan's) feet,
and he had been obliged to ask the officer to have the
soldiers removed so as to enable him to get up to the booth
—the officer had civilly complied with his request—but he
could get no assistance from the High Sheriff; whose duty
it was to have afforded it to him.—(Laughter from the
Tory benches.) Did the Right Hon. Baronet know that
when the tocsin of his advent to power was
sounded in Ireland, the furious Orange party
broke loose ? Was he aware that towns had been given
up to be sacked.—(Laughter from the Tory benches.)
The town of Dungannon had been given up to be sacked.
—(Renewed laughter from the Tory benches.) He would
not follow the example of the Duke of Wellington in the
case of Birmingham, and say that it was worse then than
what any town would have experienced from a foreign
foe, but he would merely say, that the house of the chief
and most respectable Roman Catholic inhabitants of Dun-
gannon had been sacked and wrecked, and it mattered little
to an individual who had had his property destroyed,
whether the mischief had been done by an Orange
mob or a foreign army.--(Cheers.) At Belfast the
candidates had with difficulty escaped with their lives, and
several persons had been injured by a furious Orange
mob. He addressed the Right Hon. Baronet for the I
purpose of letting him know what company he was get-
ting into, and who were his friends. He saw the Right '
Hon. Baronet shake his head, and he was delighted to
see it, but he would tell the political huntsman who
had so long been hunting for power that, like Actaeon, he
would be devoured by his own' hounds.—(Laughter from I
the Opposition benches.) He thought the Right Hon. I
Baronet already felt some difficulty in keeping his party
in order, and he threw put these friendly suggestions to ,
him in order that he might guard himself
from excess of loyalty on the one hand, and from
vagabondism on the other. He doubted not that both
phrases were familiar to the Right Hon. Baron9t, and
those near him.—(Cheers.) In this county during an
election the military were marched out of a town and
locked up in barracks. In his county, on the contrary,
during an election, the military were marched into a 1
theto
military, al d t
hadhe civilians
complete
possession
uand the lawyer of one of the candidates
having
retired
from the hustings for the purpose of getting a book to
refer -to some legal point, was actually prevented re-
Ot
hfe one
election, tn
re-
turning by the military. They would not permit any to
come up to the hustings without a certificate, and an

THE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY, AtIGIUSII-24A, 1841.

agent of his, who had ridden fifty miles to give his vote,
was unable to do so, because the Sheriff had locked up
the polling book, and had put the key in his pocket.
At a meeting held shortly after the election at which the
Colonel commanding the military was present, that officer
had stated that, apprehending a riot, he had ordered out jus-
tice to Ireland ; and when asked whet he meant by jus-
tice to Ireland, he answered—a six-pounder.—(Laughter
from the Tory benches.) This observation, however,
was made in perfect good humour ; and that officer was
subsequently complimented by Mr. O'Connell, for the
manner in which he had conducted himself. He would
now come to an instance, of which he could produce
witten evidence. The return to the writ, in one in-
stance, had been sent, by the twelve electors signing it,
with a seal bearing the inscription of "the glorious me-
mory ;" and the seal which the Sheriff had affixed offi-
cially, represented a place in flames, with the Devil
pelting a man in a pillory with priests, and the inscrip-
tion on the seal was—" The Pope in the pillory, the
pillory in hell, and the Devil pelting priests at
him."—(Laughter from the Tory ,benches, answered
by loud cries of " Hear, hear," .from the Mini.
sterial beaches.) He would just mention that the
host was represented as dropping out of the
mouth of the Pope into the flames.—(Loud cries of
"Hear, hear.") These were the friends of the Right
Hon. Baronet. Well might he say that Ireland was his
great difficulty—he would find it his greatest—(Loud
cheers)—he would not say the difficulty would be insu-
perable, but he would tell him that if his supporters
went on in that way, he would lose the country.—
(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. G.) was a Protestant, but did
they think that he would fight for such a party as that?
If that were the course Irishmen would sit quietly by
their fire sides if an invading army of Americans were
to appear in the country. Let them beware of Ame-
rica—(Cries of " Oh, oh")—for a party was springing
up in America which was anxiously endeavouring to
form a connexion with Ireland, and were constantly send-
ing money to that country.—(Hear, hear.) He wanted ne
foreign connection—he wanted no foreign money—but
he would not support the party opposite in their idle
and trumpery proceeding. Did they think that the
people of Ireland would quietly submit to hear their ve-
nerable clergy abused as " surpliced ruffians?" He would
tell that party, that by such conduct they were declaring
war against the people of Ireland, and if that should
come, God alone would judge the right. He felt at-
tached to the connection with this country, and would
wish to see it maintained, but it could only be so by
the possession of equal rights and equal liberties. Hon.
Gentlemen talked of want of confidence. He would
tell them, that neither themselves, nor their party, ever
had the confidence of Ireland, and that they never could
gain it while acting on the principles by which they
boasted their majority had been returned.—(Hear,
hear.) He considered the amendment as insulting to the
Crown, and thought the Right Hon. Baronet had exhi-
bited a want of his usual caution, and of that respect
that was due to the Sovereign in consenting to it. It
was framed in such a manner as to enable the Right
Hon. Baronet to abandon the cause of monopoly to-
morrow, if he chose so to do, and he (Mr. Grattan) felt
convinced that he would abandon it, for what question
had he not abandoned ?—(Cheers.) He felt grateful
to him for Catholic Emancipation, but he delaye I grant-
ing it so long that he lost all, and had neither given
satisfaction nor obtained gratitude.—(Cheers.) He
would pursue the same course with regard to these great
measures, and would not concede them until it should
be too late. He regretted the constituencies of England
should have forgotten the services of such men as
Russell, Grey, and Morpeth, and considered their in-
gratitude to those men as one of the worst signs of
their lives. To those men they were indebted for
, Catholic Emancipation, which they had forced
lon the Right Honourable Baronet—for the abo-
lition of the slave trade and slavery—for the
Corporation Reform—for the Registration of Electors
and for the Reform Bill, of which the Noble Lord the
Member for Liverpool said, that any man must be mad
who would attempt to alter it, but which, as far as Ire-
land was concerned, the other noble Lord opposite had
not only attempted to alter, but to annihilate by his Re-
gistration Bill.—(Loud cheers.) He trusted that when
the Right Hon. Baronet came into power he would be
enabled to keep his own party in order ; and whatever
party might be in power, he hoped they would bring
not only prosperty to England, but peace and content-
ment to his own unhappy country.
Lord WORSLEY said, representing as he did an
agricultural district, he could not help expressing his
dissent from the opinions which had been expressed by
the Hon. Member for Stockport in reference to the
Corn-law. If those arguments were carried to tho full
extent he would ask what would become of the agricul-
tural population ?—(Hear, hear.) If corn were brought
from abroad in such large quantities persons would give
up growing it in England, and then what would be-
come of the agicultural labourers ? He felt it his duty
to state that he entirely differed from the Hon. Member
on that subject. He was glad to find, however, that
there was no intention to refuse inquiry. With respect
to the question then before the House lie must distinctly
state that lie differed from Hon. Members opposite ; and
as he could not repose confidence in the Bon. Baronet
opposite, so he could not withdraw confidence from her
Majesty's Ministers.
Mr. HASTIE addressed the House in so low a tone
of voice, that all we could distinctly hear was, that the
present depression in commerce had arisen from the
sliding scale.
On the motion of Mr. HINDLEY, the debate was
adjourned till to-morrow.
The Committee on Printed Papers was appointed, after
a few words from Mr. WALLACE, and the House ad-
journed at a Quarter past Twelve o'Clock.

THE OLD FREEMEN.
TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN.

Six-I beg to inclose you the number of householders
and freemen who polled at the last election at Hull.
Sir Robert Peel need not boast of the change of feeling
in Hull, when he observes the majority of householders
who voted for the Liberal candidates. With the Ballot
alone the Reformers in Hull would have a majority of
several hundreds, notwithstanding the corrupt old free-
men were permitted to sell their votes to the Tories.
I am, Sir, your obedient servant,
Regent-street, Aug. 23, 1840. A REFORMER.

Z. IS MAJESTY the EMPEROR of
AUSTRIA having AUTHORISED and GUA.
RA NTEED several DISTRIBUTIONS of MONEY
DIVIDENDS, which (though they are NO LOTTERIES)
oler many possibilities of obtaining
LARGE FORTUNES,
HEINE BROTHERS, at HAMBURGH and at
LUBECK,

Are now SELLING BONDS for the said DIST RIBU TIONS.
Persons desirous to purchase for the Next Distributiont
may revive, PREVIOUS to giving any orders, the PROS-
PF:CTUS and PARTICULARS, upon addressing, WITH-
HIT DELAY, a line to
HEINE BROTHERS, at HAMBURGH,
or. to HEINE BROTHERS, at LUBECK.

The NEXT DISTRIBUTION contains DIVIDENDS of
4E25,000 £6OO £l2O • £BO
5,000 400 110 70
1,500 200 100 60
1,000 100 90 50
800 150
%he largest Dividend of the Distribution of Ist March last,
TWENTY-FIVE THOUSAND POUNDS,
ABS remitted to London and vicinity by
HEINE BROTHERS,
Rho remitted, during a few years, 22 large Money Dividerir,
from 6001. and upwards unto 25,0001., besides many Dividends
of smaller amounts to England, Ireland, and Scotland.