The Sun.
London, England, 1841-04-29 00:00:00

led to the state in which the country and the
House stood.—(Hear.) Let not the House be alarmed
if he went so far back as the year 1825. He would not do
so, if the Right Hon. Meinber for Tamwurth had not adverted,
on Monday night, to the opinions givou at that time on cer-
tain subjects by the Hon. and learned Member for Dublin.
It was perfectly true that, in 1825, he (Mr. Shiel), stated it
to be his opinion that 40s. freeholders should be abolished. At
that time the 40s. freeholders had not thrown off the yoke.
They fulfilled the prediction of the Duke of Wellington, when
he said in the Irish Parliament, that he was sure the 40s. free-
holders would vote with their landlords. In 1825 the change
had not taken place, which subsequently did. It was quite
true that in that year the opinions of the gentlemen who were
deputed by the Irish people to this country, were favourable to
the suppression of the 40s. freeholders. They were anxious to
have the Catholic question settled. He was sure the Hon.
Baronet lamented very much, as they certainly did, that that
opportunity hadnot been seized by the Tory Government to
come to some settlement of that question. Well, that propo-
sition was rejected. He (Mr. Shiel) owned that he was sur-
prised that the Hon. Baronet adverted to the circumstances
which then took place, because he was sure, when concessions
were made a few years 'afterwards, under a strong exercise of
a pressure from without, the Hon. Baronet must have felt
that it would have been better if that question had been
settled before such. .excitement had taken place, as
to make the concession aprear to be the result of a
feeling different from that in which all concessions are made.
Well, the deputies felt that they had but this resource—namely,
to avail themselves of the energies which the Irish people pos-
sessed. The 40s. freeholders were roused. The Waterford
election took plaee. Victory after victory was soon gained by
the popular party. Then it was that the power of the 40s.
freeholders was developed, and not till then. The Hon.
Baronet at length perceived that the settlement of the Catholic
question was indispensable. Alight he intimate to the Hon.
Baronet that he could not help feeling surprised that he (Sir
R. Peel) entered into an encounter with the Irish people.
From the Irish people on that occasion he met with a most
signal defeat. No man felt more regret than he (Mr. Shiel)
did that the Hon. Baronet did not continue in the course of
policy which he adopted when he made the concession alladed
to. No compact had 'been made with the Irish people.
His Hon: and Learned Friend the Member for Dublin, when
the subject was last under discussion, mentioned a fact which was
of the utmost importance, namely, that there was a great meet-
ing at the Thatched House Tavern, of the men in whom the
greatest confidence was reposed by the Irish people, and they
agreed that Catholic Emancipation should not be obtained at
the sacrifice of the 40s. freeholders. The Right Hon. Baronet
admitted that the sacrifice of the 40s. freeholders was not the
result of a compact. There was a protest entered by the
Noble Lord, the Secretary for Fos eign Affairs, and by the
Noble Lord, the Alember for North Lancashire, against the
solvent tenant test. In a speech of the Noble Lord, he con-
demned the solvent tenant test as establishing too high a
franchise.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") The man who
made the protest against the solvent tenant test, was the man
who had the Irish Bill in his hands, and he struck out
out the solvent tenant test. Could :he deny that? In his
answer to the Judge Advocate, the Noble Lord said, when
called on to account for the speech that he made in the year
1832, that he could not account for it—that it was a misprint—
that the reporters had made a mistake. But he would not
attempt to account for leaving out the solvent tenant test.
Lord Oriel was so convinced of the injurious tendency of the
solvent tenant test, that he divided the House of Lords
upon it. He (Mr. Shiel) would go for the interpretation of
the Reform Act not to the opponents of it. He would go to
the Liberal Judges of the land for the interpretation of it: By
their decision he would abide. The Judges were divided on
the subject; and, coupling all those facts, he would say, it was
incumbent on the House to settle the question. The Honour.-
able Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, said that they ought
ought not to build a new house, but repair the old one. He
(Mr. Shiel) would say they ought to build a new one, but
upon the old foundation—upore the foundation on which the
Reform Bill was raised. The Hon. Baronet fouted fault with
the Government fur not introducing,a Billto define the benefi-
cial interest. Had not the Noble Loid (Lord Howick) voted
for Sir Michael O'Loghlen's ?—(Hear, hear.) The
Honourable Baronet was therefore in , the wrong, when
he said that no attempt had been made on this question by the
Government, because an attempt. had been made again and
again by the Government to define the beneficial interest.
The Noble Lord (Stanley) found the majority of the Judges
in Ireland in favour of the solvent tenant test, and he calcu-
lated that the minority who dissented would ultimately agree
with the decision of the majority. That was the opinion of
the Noble Lord. He then brought in the Bill, which did not
define the franchise ; but since that time the Chief Baron had
announced that he could not agree with the majority of the
Judges. This being the case, it was manifest that the Bill
of the Noble Lord could not be adopted. The Government
wire then driven to bring in a Bill, in which the franchise was
to be defined. What ha the Government done? They had
got a series of returns from the Poor-law Commissioners, by
which it was manifest that the rate was uniformly below the
rent. It was perfectly preposterous to make the excess of the
rate above the rent a test of the qualification.—( Hear, hear.)
He could not understand why the Right Hon. Baronet, the
Member for Tamworth, meant to insist that there should be
an excess of the rate above the rent ; but if he did, it was ma-
nifest that 5-6ths of the constituency of Ireland would be
disfranchised. (Hear, hear.) He was surprised that
no Honourable Member on the other side of the House
had yet stated whether they would adopt the rate as a founda-
tion for the franchise. The Learned Recorder of Dublin had
stated that the rate mostly exceeded the rental. He (Air.
Shiel) was obliged to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman for his
candour.—( Hear.) He would pray the attention of the
House to this. The Recorder had stated that the excess of
the rate would be above the rent, and yet the Right Hon.
Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, the other night,
said that the rate was almost uniformly below the rent.
They ought not to make the excess, of the rate
beyond the rent the test of the franchise. He
thought the Hon. Baronet ought to tell the House what he
thought ought to be done—( Cheers and laughter) —especially
as the Noble Lord beside him had undertaken to legislate for
the country. He (Mr. Shiel) had shown that the definition
of the franchise was indispensible, as the Judges of the land
were divided on the question. When the state of things was
such as was admitted, and when Hon. Gentlemen on the
opposite side found fault with Government, he thought they
ought to say what rate they would adopt. It was obvious that
the Noble Lord's (Lord Stanley's) could not be adopted, for by
it the evils which at present existed would remain unreme-
died. Were they, then, to leave the constituency of Ire-
land in the state in which it now was ? Theie had
been much controversy on the state of the constituency
in Ireland, but documents had been laid on the table of the
House which laid that matter at rest. The Noble Member for
North Lancashire, when introducing his Bill, used the most
offensive terms. He talked of the extent to which perjury was
committed in Ireland. The Noble Lord introduced a Bid, the
effect of which would be to reduce the constituency still lowei
than it was shown to be. The county of Waterford had a popu-
lation of 150,000, and a constituency of only 803. In a dis-
trict of Ireland which contained one million of inhabitants, the
constituency only amounted to about 4,000. He did not ask
them to restore the 40s. freeholders, but they ought to place
Ireland, with respect to advantages, on a footing analagous
with that of England.. The poverty of Ireland was used to
serve the purposes of debate. The Irish people had a
right to an entire
,participation in those advantages
of which England was in the full fruition._( Hear. )
It is true, continued the Hon. and Learned Member, that
Ireland is not a rich country, but Ireland possesses some great
qualifications for a large constituency. Ireland has made great
and signal advances, and to a country which in every thing re-
specting social power is making such advances, to a country
which has arisen from servitude to high mindedness, and has
put off the habitude of depression, to a country in which great
courage and determination is combined, as it is, with great
morality and sobriety, to a c ountry which almost as by a
• mire, le has given you signal proof of its social improvement,
I say to such a country you ought to concede a very different
franchise—to such a country you ought not to award the con-
stituency the Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire
has prepared for them, Between the Bill of the Noble Lord,
the Secretary for Ireland, and that of the Noble Lord the
Member for North Lancashire, this House must elect. For
mark, has the Noble Lord the Member for North Lanca-
shire given up his Bill ? Does he not persevere in it with all
its vices ? Does he not still insist upon appeals to the Judges ?
Does he not still insist upon annual revision? Does he not
insist upon that system of oaths which gives rise to that " vil-
lanous perjury" he so much laments? And, under these cir-
cumstances, what course is the House to take ? Take the Bill
of the Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire and you
take ambiguity, confusion, and agitation ; but take the Bill of
the Secretary tor Ireland and you take a Bill which fixes the
franchise by a definitive standard, you take a Bill which sets
the conflict ing statements of the law at rest, you take a Bill
by which oaths are suppressed and perjury put an end to, you
take a Biil by which the dissensions 'of the Judges cease, and
you will then show your solicitude for the rights of the peo-
ple of Ireland, and afford them the most perfect satisfaction.
—(Loud cheers.)
Sir R. PEEL explained, and quoted some evidence of Mr.
O'Connell in 1825, containing objections to the 40s. franchise,
and contended that upon such evidence the Legislature of the
day had a right to draw the inference they did of the evils of
the system.
Mr. HUME said that although he had been accused of ig-
norance through not being an Irishman, he Mew that by this
clause no one could vote without a lease, and as the landlords
would not give leases, the consequence would be that the clause
would be one of disfranchisement.
After a few words from Mr. W. ROCHE, which were in-
audible,
Mr. O'CONNELL said he hoped the House would allow
him to trespass on its attention for a short time, as he had been
strongly alluded to by the Noble Lord and the Right Hon.
Gentleman. He should be sorry that his Hon. Friend the Mem-
berelam'efor Kilkenny should persevere in his intention to divide the
l-1u
ee.helty,wealtotetaelltyhat
iunnecessary,twasan a tliforrmifathievew
colauuldsel7akndinthtoerthe.e
fore that It might •
e alter the present one add the clause giving
even tenants-at-will the right to vote,•
the sum by oily one shilli provided they varied
sary for him then to dividenn,iesoHothuat it was totally unneces-
terial whether he took that immaterisei • It was not very
imma-
terialma-
division it wouldbe,
because
asa
the
division—for an he Right Hon. Baronet
and the Government would vote against him he
whatever of a majority. He (Mr. O'Connell s had no chance
had fallen from the Noble Lord (Russell) wit?, had heard what
yet not without regret. There was in his s great pleasure,
speech an exp
tion of some of those principles applicable to the ev
of Ireland, which if carried into effect would eTenrnment
did not think the Noble Lord's s• I9ently
useful; but he mulcation
the conduct of the Reform Ministry in 1c32 was satisfacter
The Noble Lord went into the history of the 40g.
and of its abolition, but he was not accurate in s„ine_
that the 40s. franchise was abolished on his (Mr. cecr;on!
nell's) evidence, nor was the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir Fe
Peel in such a statement. He referred him to the very first
answer he (Mr. O'Connell) had given, and which with the
permission of the. House he would read. He (Mr. O'Con-
nell) spoke of the different franchises in Ireland, under a
lease, and did not speak of the 40s. franchise as in England.
Being asked what would correct the evils of tho 40s. fran-
chise, he answered—"lt is difficult to answer that question,
the system of the 40s. freeholders in Ireland, is different from
that. in this country. There are, however, 40s. freeholders in
Ireland, and with these I suppose nobody would meddle."—
( Hear, hear.) The Hon. si, mber proceeded to read several
other quotations to a similar effect, and proceeded—but the
Right Hon. Baronet said the 40s. freehold was abolished as
a measure of Reform. It was the only instance in which the
Right Hon. Baronet had shown himself a Parliamentary Re-
former. It was not because they were Catholics, but because there
n ere social evils connected with it, that the Right lion. Baronet
became a Parliamentary Reformer. And what was the effect?
He reformed by totally destroying. But was that a reason
why the House should not now take into consideration the
extension of the franchise in Ireland to a similar class? During
the period from 1825 to 1829 the abuses in the exercise of this
franchise ceased, and the 40s. freeholders displayed their
existed patriotism. While these abuses
emancipation • was
refused on the terms of correcting the abuse. Had
this been done a political slumber and apathy
would have'. passed over Ireland, and the p
of Ireland would not have found it necessary to make
further
6hee
P
exertions. The Right Hon. Baronet refused the au.
icious
moment. He roused the spirit and genius
of the people of
Ireland, and was compelled to grant them unfettered and un-
shackled emancipation. But the 40s. freeholders who shared
in the battle were not allowed to partake in the triumph—the
were annihilated and destroyed. Then came the Reform Bill,
and here he (Mr. O'Connell) complained of the Noble Lord

different manner. During the essistenocof' thelOs. freeholders
in Ireland, there was an immense alattie of the franchise ; and
the tight of voting was exercised in a manner that had never
been contemplated for the purpose of carrying an election. One
source of abuse was the intimidation of landlords, under a
strong political feeling that power was broken, or as the
Right Hon. Gentleman Opposite (Sir R. Peel) termed it, the
weapon snapped in their hands, and the great body of Roman
Catholic voters exercised the franchise in behalf of persons who
held their own political opinions. It was then stated that the
franchise was wrongly placed; that an immense number of
fictitious freeholds had been created, and that it was necessary
to place the franchise in more independent hands. The Right
Hon. Gentleman opposite proposed a plan for that purpose,
and looking to allthe information which had been afforded, he
could not concur in what was done by the Government of that
day. The Right Hon. Gentleman had asserted that there
was an immense number of persons exercising this freehold
franchise, and he had argued that, comparing the number of
voters in England and Ireland, the number in Ireland was so
large that it was impossible but that the franchise was abused ;
and he had proposed that the franchise should be raised to 101.
a year instead of 40s. Now in raising the franchise to 101.
a year he thought the difference between an English 40.5.
freehold and an Irish 40s. freehold was totally lost sight of.
It was clear that the franchise had been much more restricted
in In land than was anticipate d. However fair the Acts of
1829 and 1832 might have been been framed, it was now
abundantly evident that they had committed many mistakes in
settling the county franchise in Ireland. In 1831 and 1832,
when the Noble Lord opposite brought in the Irish Reform
bill, it was matter of reproach to him that he called upon the
House to legislate without any information, and Mr. Croker
then said he supposed the Noble Lord would lay the informa-
tion upon the table the stay after the debate, even as
the Government of the pre sent day were taunted ; but the fact
eras, there was no precedent for either case, and they were
obliged to legislate upon general principles. In attempting to
settl the franchise, they were compelled to adopt one that was
new, in order to avoid introducing one which had already
led to the loss of all former Bills; therefore they had
adopted the occupation and rating franchise. It was well un-
derstood that the landlords in England called upon their 501.
tenants for their vote, and that without much evil to society,*
because they did not differ much among themselves, but it teas
very different in Ireland. There the landlords might, from
conviction, have an anxious desire to support the Pi otast tnt
religion, or wish to support a party not generally supported by
the majority of the people of Ireland, entirely in opposition to
the convictions and feelings of their tenants, who must either
come up and record their vote in opposition to their con-
sciences, or give an honest vote at the risk of losing their
holdings. In his opinion, the Si. rating, with a fourteen years'
lease', would be in an independent position to give his vote
according to his feelings and conscience. They had been
anxious to chose that right of voting which presented the least
of evil, and that was the clause as it now stood. It was said
that many landlords would refuse the fourteen years lease. Un-
douhtedly they might, but on the other hand, if they made the
franchise an occupation one, they would hare the voters driven
up to the hustings to vote against their conscience. He was
most anxious to see the country so governed as to avoid being
brought into that state in which it was previous to 18.9, and
for that purpose he was anxious that the people of Ireland
should be allowed to govern themselves in their municipal affairs
through their corporations—that they should have that
check and control over public affairs which they ought
to have either in Parliament or out of it. He
was convinced that any legislation of that House which
attempted to curb the people of Ireland, would entirely
fail, and they would lose the best safeguard they had—the best
the country had ever enjoyed was only since 1829, from which •
epoch the Catholic had a regular and constitutional mode of ex-
pressing his complaints and asking redress for his grievances—of
coming to that House, and if his comp'aints were just, obtain-
ing redress, if not of having their injustice shown. That was
the privilege he wished them to retain, and with that desire
he was anxious to see the Bill become the law of the land.
Mr. LUCAS would venture to trespass for a few moments
on the patience of the House, while he replied to the observa-
tions of the Noble Lord who had just sat down. The Noble
Lord had charged him with having last year supported a pro,
position for defining the franchise, while this year he had tV.':
posed it. If he had changed his mind on that or any other
subject, he would have no hesitation in coming down to the
House and openly avowing that change, instead of giving any
new proposition a silent acquiescence. lie had in his hand
a report of the debate which took place on the occasion to
which the Noble Lord had referred, and he had no hesitation'
in stating so much ol." it as would place his observations in their
true light. The Hon. Member here read some extracts from
his remarks upon the subject of beneficial interest. lie had
certainly never expressed at that or_ any other time any observa-
tions that would give the House' w ides that he wished to sub-
stitute a rating test for the beneficial interest or solvent tenant
test. He had always experienced courtesy-Min the Noble
Lord opposite, but he shouldnot accept it own trite present occa-
sion at the expense of his friends.
Sir R. PEEL wished to state the course he intended to
take on the question then before the. House as to whether
the words " fourteen years " should remain, or the words
" one year" be substituted. Ile apprehended that they had
now before them the original proposition of the Government.
It appeared to him that it would he infinitely fairer and bet-
ter that they should have the proposal of her Majesty's Go-
vernment made in that shape which would best meet their
own views. It might be that by coalescing with the lion.
Member for Kilkenny they might parry the amendment of
that Hon. Member ; but he thought it. infinitely better that
the Government should be allowed to fill up the blanks in the
way they thought best. The course he should take between
the proposition for one or for fourteen years was the same he
should take upon the proposition of a rating for 51. or for
81., and therefore not being prepared to admit that a tenancy
or occupancy from year to year should confer the right of vot-
ing-, the details being a matter of indifference to
him, and yet being unwilling to go to a division
without stating to the House what his opinions
were, he should on the present occasion give his vote in favour
of the original proposition, not because he approved of it, but
because he wished to have the details of the measure fully ex-
plained, it being perfectly notorious that when the great ques-
tion came to be decided he should give his vote against the
clause,
Mr. C. WOOD should also feel it his duty to vote against
the amendment of the Hon. Member for Middlesex. Nobody
was more sensible of the difficulty of finding in any way an in-
dependent constituency in Ireland than himself, and it was with
the view of obtaining an independent class of voters that his
Noble Friend the Member for Northumberland had suggested
his amendment. The mistake into which many Hon. Members
on his (Mr. Wood's) side of the House had fallen on Monday
night had since, he had reason to believe, been cleared up, and it
was now obvious that the proposal of his Noble Friend was a
clear addition to the franchise, without disfranchising one single
individual who was enfianchised by the Bill of the Govern-
ment.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. SHEIL thought the statement of the Hon. ,Member for
Halifax at variance with the intentions of the Noble Lord the
Member for Northumberland. If the statement of the Hon.
Member for Halifax was correct, and that the proposition of
his Noble Friend was merely that their franchise should be ad-
ditional to that of the Government, and not exclusive of that
franchise, would it not have been the duty of the lion. Mem-
ber and the Noble Lord to have voted for the proposition
made by the Government ?—( Hear, hear.) He questioned
whether the Hon. Member for Halifax could reconcile
the conduct of the Noble Lord with the statement
which he had just made. The Noble Lord had distinctly an-
nounced to them, when the subject was first discussed in Com-
mittee, that his proposition should be not only an addition, but
a substitution for the plan of the Government, and that he
had repeated again and again. The Government proposition
of an 81. rating was a simpe and single one, but the proposi-
tion of the Noble Lord was a franchise which depended upon
the excess of the rate beyond the rent. That, of course, ex-
cluded all who were rated at et. but who had not an excess of
rating beyond the rent.—( Hear, hear.) He hoped the Hon.
Member for Halifax, and the Noble Lord, would set him
right, if he had the misfortune. not to understand them. The
second proposition of the Noble Lord was for an independent
constituency, without a lease ; but that was a point which the
Hon. Member for Halifax was not very clear about. He hoped
the Hon. Member and the Noble Lord would forgive him, if
he ventured not to insinuate, but to state, that they did not
appear to possess that knowledge ef Ireland which such a pro-
position required ; and he 'must also say, with regard
to the amendment of his Hon. Friend behind him, although his
Hon. Friend was Member for Kilkenny—(Much laughter)._
he did not seem to possess a sufficient knowledge of the charac-
ter of the tenure in Ireland. He (Mr. Shiel) would not ven-
ture to pronounce with any great confidence upon the opinions
and state of the public mind in Middlesex, and notwithstanding
the connection of his Hon. Friend with Kilkenny—(Renewed
laughter)—he did not appear to possess the intimate acquaint-
ance with the state of the people in Ireland which such
a proposition requires!. The Noble Lord's clause, which he
would term the Chandos clause,or rather,the Howick clause, as
applied to the people of Ireland, mutt depend fully as much
upon the eslaeiens of the gentry to the people—upon the
character of the gentry and the habits of the people, as
.upon the mere question of tenure.—( Hear, hear.) He
believed the Noble Lord bad voted for the Chandos clause,
having then filled the office of Secretary at War, although
Lord Grey had entered his strong protest against that clause.
If he recollected right the Noble- Lord, in a speech made by
him in 1835, complained that the Chandosclause had not
worked well in England, and inveighed against the most scan-
dalous conduct of the landlords, the Tory party being par-
ticularly addicted to intimidation. Now what would be the
effect of such a clause in Ireland? In England the landlords
and tenants generally agreed, but in Ireland they did not, and
on that account compulsion must be resorted to, and that was
why the Howick clause for Ireland was so strenuously sup_
ported.—( Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Shiel) had spent a larger
portion of his life than he ought in very exciting agitation. He
knew what landlords could do, and how tenants could resist ;
and he could tell them that leases made a very great difference.
When there was a lease there .was a barrier be-
tween the landlord and the tenant, and the rent
could be paid. One of the most remarkable incidents
in the agitation of the Catholic question was the enormous con-
tribution for the defence of the persecuted tenants. He knew
it had been said that such a collection eould not be made again.
But as the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin had said
that he did not despair of the fortunes of his country, so he
(Mr. Shiel) of the virtues of his countrymen never would de-
spair ; and he did not entertain a doubt that if ever there was
need, the same spirit of lofty generosity would be displayed
which corresponded with the sentiments and heroism of former
days. Suppose the Noble Lord the Member for Northumber-
land—and he begged pardon for the hypothesis—suppose he
went to a tenant-at-will, and asked him for his vote, if the poor
fellow told him " I have a wife and a large family, and I shall
be served with notice to quit, and turned out, if I vote for you,"
if the Noble Lord pressed him and had the misfortune to suc-
ceed, and that a few months afterwards he saw him starving
and shivering on the public road, would not the Noble Lord
admit, if he had any feeling, that the highest place in the Ca-
binet could afford him no compensation for such suffering?
Lord Grey declared that he regretted the change made by the
Chandos clause, because he considered it, to a certain extent,
an additional argument in favour of the vote by ballot. The
Hon. Member for Lambeth said he called on the Member for
Tipperary to define his opinions. He (Mr. Sheil) wag de-
fining his opinion?. He was speaking of a country with which
lie was acquainted. He was speaking of that which he knew—
of that with which he was acquainted. The advocates of the
bailee might say—" Give us protection, save the tenant-at-
will from intimidation—give us the Ballot, which is the shield
of independence. It may be regarded by some as a colour for
falsehood ; but give us the Ballot and we agree." But if
they would not give the Ballot, and protection to the tenant
whom they vested with that privilege, let them not inflict on
him a favour which would make him either a slave or a
martyr. Let them not leave him to make a se-
lection the most painful—a selection that must re-
duce him to servitude the most ignominious, or to suffering
the most disastrous; He (Mr. Shiel) had written to many
persons in Ireland who had been, like himself, engaged in agi-
tation, and there was but one sentiment among them all on
the subject. They all concurred in saying that the person
having the franchise would be a slave in the midst of disturb-
ance, and amartyr in the midst of agitation. • He would yens.
ture to turn from the topics to which he had just been advert-
ing to the general matter which was under discussion—namely,
to the course which under all circumstances it was wise and
just for the House to pursue. He had remarked in the course
of the discussion that a great deal of reference had been made
to facts ; but the references which had been made to facts were
not made with that due attention to order and to method with
which they ought. It occurred to him as not inappropriate
very briefly to advert to the circumstances which

(J. Russell) and his colleagues. He (Mr. O'Connell) opposed
that Bill because of its narrow limits and insulting nature.
The Noble Lord had said Ireland had received the same ad-
vantages as England—that, like England, she had got corpo-
rate reform. but had she got the corporate reform which
England had? Ireland was the poorer country, and this
crime was committed against her, that whereas the burgess
of every town in England who was rated at 6d. was entitled
to vote, no burgess could vote in Dublin who was not
rated at 101. Why make that distinction, but because they
had the power to tyrannise over Ireland, and do her injustice,
and exercised it with insolent domination, without reason or
argument, and in defiance of the principle which said both
countries should be united into one ? The Hon. and Learned
Member then proceeded to quote returns exhibiting
the comparative constituencies of the two countries.
Is there an Hon. Gentleman opposite who will say that this
is just and right, or that if the case were reversed, and if
95,000aIrishmen had 5,000 voters while one million of Eng-
lishmen had but 4,000, they would submit to such a state ol
things ? If any one did submit to it he would deserve rio
other feeling than contempt. He would appeal to the Hotr.e
for redress for these anomalies, and he would appeal from the m
to the people of Ireland, who would know how to obtain 're-
dress for themselves if justice were refused them by Parlia-
ment. Again, the rural population of Wales amounted to
805,000 and the population of Cork to 703,000, whilst 5f ales
had a constituency of 36,833, and the constituency of Cork
amounted to no more than 3,835 voters. In the Courts in
which he (Mr. O'Connell) practised equality was said to he
equity, but he was sure there could be neither equality nor
equity in those cases. They had the power to continue this
injustice; but would it be.prudent of them to do so? It wias
safe for them now, but would it be safe for them before the
next three months had passed over? Let them depend upon
it that the people of Ireland understood the injustice done
them perfectly well ; they had heard it often, and it would not
be his fault if they did nal hear it again. , They should recol-
lect these things when tlfey came to deliberate on the course
they were to pursue towards Ireland? How were they to deal
with that country ? .They ought now to be weary of the system
of exclusion and insult; while they seemed, on the contrary,
as fresh for the work as if they were now only at the beginning
of the seven centuries of oppression. He was not content
with the Bill of the Government, although, he should support
it. He could not get a better Bill ; and he certainly
much regretted the change from a Si. to an 81. qualification.
The Government, he believed, had gained no accession of
strength by the change, and they had suffered some
disparagement by having made it. His Right Hon. and
Learned Friend the Member for Tipperary had told them what
the Irish people were ; they had set an example of religious
fidelity to the nations of the earth, and even those who might
consider their faith erroneous should respect the firmness and
integrity with which they adhered to it. There were now in
Ireland upwards of 5,000,000 pledged never to take of the cup
of intoxication ; and such a people would not tamely submit to
the perpetuation of oppression. If they wished for a continua-
tion of the Union they should make it a union in reality, and
not allow that 1,000,000 of people in this country should have
only the same number of representatives as 1,000,000 in the
other. By adapting the Ministerial Bill they would take a
short, small, and slow step in the way of justice and concilia-
tion, and one which would lean to other practical results. He
trusted it would be taken as an argument in its favour (although
it might be an indiscretion on his part to avow it) that ifrating were
to be taken as the test for the franchise in Ireland, that would
soon become the law of the whole empire. It was lila fair to
couple taxation and representation. He believed that the
measure would do much good in Ireland, for the people of that
country were easily won by their affections, while they were
never led by their fears. The Bill would have the effect of
doing away with perjury—that great offence against God, and
that stain upon the character of man. He had only one word
to say as to the extension of the right of voting to tenants-
at-will. If the provisions for such • a measure were made
sufficiently extensive to render inoperative attempts at
individual tyranny, he should vote in its favour. Give
him a tenancy-at-will sufficiently extensive, and he should
embrace it; but the one proposed was nut sufficient—it was
not extensive enough ; it would leave the voter exposed to the
t) ranny of his landlord, and there was no remedy for this except
by extending the suffrage, or giving the voter that which he
ought to have, the protection of the Ballot, a hich was a pro-
tection which they would not give. He would vote for the
Government measure, and he was glad he was able to do so con-
sistently with his duty. He was desirous that the people of
Ireland should know that the Government was making a strug-
gle for the rights of the country.—(Cheers.) If they failed, it
would not be their faults, but the fault of those who opposed
them, and their failure would be a sufficient intimation to the
people of Ireland that they must make a hearty struggle to ob-
tain justice for themselves.—( Cheers. )
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the Committee
divided, when there appeared—
For Mr. Hume's amendment
Against it ...
Majority for the amendment —466
On our return to the gallery, we found
Mr. HUME moving that W. be inserted in the clause in the
place of Si.
Lord MORPETH said he had tried to promote conciliation,
and was not ashamed of so doing. It was for that purpose that
he had consentedto insert 81.
Mr. O'CONNELL said the conciliation was not made to
the gentlemen opposite.—( Cheers.) That was another insult
to Irelan". The people of that country had therefore not to
complain of their enemies, that was a matter of course, but of
those who called themselves their friends.
Mr. SLANEY said a few words amidst loud noise, which
prevented a word that fell from him reaching the gallery.
The House then divided, when there appeared.—
For the motion
For the amendment
Majority -308
On our return there were loud cries for adjournment.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he thought as they had been dis-
cussing the question all the evening, and it was now 12 o'clock,
they had better divide on the clause.
Mr. O'CONNELL said he thought the reason assigned by
the Noble Lord, was one why they should adjourn. He would
not be taunted with proposing an adjournment on Lord
Staaley's Bill, and opposing it on that one.
The words " six months" were then inserted in the clause.
On the question that the clause as amended stand part of
the Bill.
Mr. BROTHERTON moved that the House should adjourn.
The Committee then divided, when there appeared—
For the motion...
For the adjournment
Majority ---330
On our return to the gallery we found
Mr. HUME protesting against the course pursued by the
Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) with respect to the Bill. If
the Government were determined that a goad Bill should not
pass, it would be better that this Bill should be put an end to
at once.

Mr. O'CONNELL then moved that the Chairman do leave
the chair.
Strangers were ordered to withdraw, but the House did not
divide.

On our return to the gallery, we found
Mr. WAKLEY protesting against the course pursued by
the Government. The Hon. Member said be was placed in
a situation of extreme difficulty by the vacillating conduct of
those below.—(Hear,,hear.) He for one could not understand
the tactics of the Noble Lord. If he had occupied the
Noble Lord's position he would not have had courage to
have faced the House in the manner that the Noble Lord had
done. The first principles of this Bill had been 'abandoned.
—( Hear, hear.) He would be very glad if the Noble Lord
would rise from his seat, which it was his fixed determination
to do.

Lord J. RUSSELL said the Hon. Member for Finsbury
had said that the course taken by the Government had placed
the House in its present situation, but he (Lord J. Russell)
imagined that, with respect to that, the question of si. or 81, did
not make the smallest difference. The question was, whether
the House was prepared or not to vote for the clause as it then
stood. With regard to that, he could only ray, that many
Members having informed the Government they could not
vote for so low a sum as 51., the amount was raised to 81. 1-1 e
had never seen any Government that retained its own views on
all questions without alteration. A Government dependent for
support on a popular assembly could not be carried on if it
did not allow itself to bend in the least degree to men who
honestly gave advice and counsel to them. If the Hon.
Member for Finsbury should become a Member of a Govern-
ment they should see the inflexible virtue which he would ex-
hibit. he (Lord John Russell) had done everything in his
pewer to promote a division on the clause, and if that should
take place he was afterwards prepared to state the course he
meant to pursue. if the clause was adopted by a majority of
the House, he should go on • with the Bill, if not he should
deem it useless to proceed with the remaining clauses. He
was sorry the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin had put
a question before the House by which the Bill would be
lost.---( Cheers. )
Mr. J. JERVIS strongly protested against being forced to
a division.
Sir T. D. ACKLAND said he could not consent to the
motion being withdrawn. He rejoiced to see the truth of the
old adage justified, " Nec lex est justior ulla quam necis arti-
fices arte perire sua."
Mr. C. WOOD hoped the motion would not be pressed to a
division.
Sir R. PEEL thought that twice during the evening gen-
tlemen on that side of the House had giver, proofs that their
desire was to come to a decision upon the merits of the clause,
and he thought a decision on the merits of the clause, taken
in the usual way, would be more satisfactory than to take ad-
vantage of the supporters of the Bill ; yet he thought the House
was now in a position to come to a decision, and if it gave way
and permitted the Hon. Gentleman to withdraw his motion,
he trusted they would receive a distinct intimation that no
further postponement should take place, but that the Bill
should to-morrow take precedence, and that the sense of the
House should be taken on the clause in the usual and une-
quivocal manner. On that condition he would advise his
friends to consent to the withdrawal o: the motion of the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman.
Mr. O'CONNELL said the advantage was not so great as
Gentlemen opposite seemed to think, as the only effect would
be that the Bill must be recommitted.
Lord J. RUSSELL had no objection to give the measure
the precedence to-morrow if the motion were permitted to be
withdrawn.
Sir ROBERT PEEL desired that it might be distinctly
understood that the Bill would be brought on to-morrow at
five o'clock.
The motion was then withdrawn and the House resumed.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the
House Adjourned at Half-past One.

yhc ph ruerttt ofy a r d
of
wi?ikitVhekviecri:TOßlA THEATRE.—Mr. Osbaldiston has
this week provided for his numerous friends and patrons an
excellent bill of fare. On Monday evening he appeared for
the first time this season' as Don Silvio de Calatrava, in the
ogmreilatto,sporrenthdeoullfr,ysatneryd,dwoehsicih Itas. really been got up
naisteweclrleasdittotothalle
ma-
the
1, enseri 11 iss Vincent performed the three characters of
nartistsait.. i i
..1
eac'erln 1 1
Maid of Aragon, and Sister Angela,
the Conventaudf
ostalinination, arid judgment, and sang a
'l74' Sylcvhioa,mthoeri, the evident satisfaction of every
nrisetiocamtle,idnpwior,iitithdt!he establishment,n"
iston both played and looked the
charactervwe r
a very novel appearance, and
one. The Circular
the
the beautiful effect of a double Santa Agatha, introducing
stage, with varied light and
shade in the rear, was vehernentl
of the most splendid scenes we ha3;ealsViauded , indeed it is one
Dumb Recruit was afterwards playede,er: for a long time. The
and his Pupils. The Mil fliereriztrducing Frampton
even-
ing's performances, in which Saville a. (1
ore closed the
salvo+ to the utmost. The house was very full.
BANKexerted them-
BANK OF IRELAND—REDUCTioN Of Dis-
couNT.—The Irish banks generally are reducing their rate of
interest on discounts. The Bank of Ireland ha,;, •
Just issued
a notice, announcing that the interest on discount of all bills
is reduced from six to five per cent.
Major-General Sir H. Gough will succeed to
the chief command at Madras, vacant by General Whittinc,..
ham's death. The 17th Lancers, at Cahir, will replace the
Ist Royal Dragoons in Glasgow next mouth. The 28th, 50th,
and Slltls regiments will proceed from New South Wales to
India.— Limerick Chronicle.

HALF PAY OFFICERS.—The number of offi-
cers who have been allowed to receive their half-pay since the
Ist of April, 1840, under the provisions of the Act 3d and
4th of Victoria, c. 112, s. 1, is stated, by a recent Parliamentary
return, to be 7, the average rate of whose half-pay per diem is
about ss. 9d.

•
FROM THE DAILY PAPERS OF YESTERDAY.
SPIRIT of tlic PUBLIC JOURNALS.
sdheopeoksiintegd .
:ell tei o remainsr t
aolfitya rferolamtiv,ecoourtigfurioeunsd,grsaorees
CHRONICLE.—Mr. Walter has been returned for Not- is exposed to the view of the spectators, while
tingbam by a majority, varietely stated at 296 and 229. Mr. around, on every hand, lie strewed the fragments
Larpent resigned at half-past one o'clock. The former num-
ber is the official return of the sheriff when Mr. Larpent of hunnan bones—as though the only places in which
resigned. It would be idle to deny that during this elec- the feelings of the living are outraged, at the time
tion Mr. Walter has been the candidate of the multitude. and under circumstances which most require con-
Our reporter has, we think, very fairly accounted for his solation, and the remains of our departed fellow-men,
popularity. Nottingham, like all old boroughs, contains treated with ignominy and insult from which even
a number of electors who expect to be paid fel- their
vote, but who, at the same time, have their likings and barbarians would abstain from an instinctive homage
to our common nature, are those which are set apart
dislikings, and will sell themselves for less to the candi- date of their choice than to his opponent. The Chartists .by the law for their decent and religious reception', and.
have --performed their part of the bargain -fairly to Mr. to which the Church, both by its laws and ritual, re-
Waiter—having, it is understood, obtained many votes for him quires that the notion of peculiar sanctity should be at=
on very favourable terms. I3ut besides the Swiss, wh
noire nu • (ached. It is fortunate for the public .that a Prelate
merous in Nottingham, many persons who wereto be
sh, by mere .accident, have beheld one of these
disgusting spectaclei. Doubtless
bought, and who on an ordinary occasion would not have voted should.
,his Lordship had often
for a Tory, were induced by hostility to the New Poor-law to
oppose the Liberal candidate. This is the fact of which read and heard of
such things as be described with so
there can be no question. The people in the manufactur- much feeling and alarm in the House of Lords on
ing towns say there are seasons when, from flatness of Monday night. The Bishop (of London) " had only
trade, multitudes are without employment, and few wholly
yesterday been called on to officiate in a parish in the
employed ; and the necessitous having been accus •
towed to partial relief at such times, are horrified at City, where thirteen skulls had been thrown out of
the idea of going iota a workhouse. This is the the grave in which the corpse was to be buried.
view they take of the matter, and the intensity of their feelings Not merely human bones were exposed in . those
is hardly to be described. Mr. Walter entered the field with churchyards, but often much worse things occurred."
not a few drawbacks in other respects. The principles of the Why, the working. clergy of the metropolis a-e coni-
Times, or rather the total absence of all principles except such
as are assumed for the day, and his own shuffling with respect pellet! to witness daily similar spectacles to that which
shocked sensibility of the with ap p .
to principles, would have sunk him, in spite of the Most profuse the Prelate rchensioas,
expenditure of money, but for the hostility to the New Poor- and even the " much worse things" to which his Lord
law and the manner in which that hostility was turned to ac- ship would not more distinctly allude in so polite as
count by his active allies, the Chartists. We have confined
ourselves to a mere statement of what we conceive to be the flounced the constantly increasing dangers resulting from
sion on the subject of them. assembly. The public press had long described and de.
facts of the case. We abstain for the present from all discuss flounced
practice of heaping coffins tier upon tier, until they
TIMES. —We are quite aware of the folly of imagining, approach within a foot of the surface, and of opening
whether in public or in private affairs, that the circumstances graves so close to those thus filled, that the coffins and
in which we ourselves happen to take a peculiar interest must their appalling contents were exposed to view. These.
necessarily possess the same interest in the eyes of all other and even " much worse" spectacles, arc common in the
persons. But still, after making all the allowance on this
score which we are able, it does seem to us impossible to . -
church" yards of the metropolis—they have been mat-
doubt, that the return of Mr. Walter for Nottingham is an ters of common conversation and indignant corn-
event of very unusual importance. The last contest which plaint and expostulation to the parochial autho-
took place in this borough was in the year 1837, when the poll Cities, by the relatives of those whose mouldering
closed as follows :
Ferguson
Hohhouso
1,639
Plowden
Twiss 1,147 existence of the evil! Providentially, his Lordship has
But the numbers polled yesterday
were— - had the subject pressed upon his attention through the
Walter ...
.2,018 medium of his senses. He actually saw thirteen human
Larpent
1,722
The Whig majority, therefore, of 492 was turned into a mi-
nority skulls thrown up from one grave—and now believed
moray of 296, making a clear difference of 788 votes. Now, that "much worse" exhibitions were frequent in such
allowing, as we must always do, for the constant declension of places. In the case before us the remedy is at hand,
the Whigs, by the ever-increasing disgust of the people, still, and of easy application. The Dean and Chapter of.
this circumstance of itself cannot sufficiently account for this
enormous defalcation. It is quite useless for any one to at- the diocese of London are known to possess land in the
vicinity of the metropolis which might be appropriated
tempt to deny that the detestation felt for the New Pcor-law for public cemeteries. The clergy of the respective pa-
is one main cause of the defeat sustained by the Whig nomi- . • - '
floe of yesterday on Nottingham hustings. But, this fact risbes, on the interment of their
,parishioners in these
biting admitted, we should next consider the great power cemeteries, might rightfully claim theusual burial fee.
of this new element, thrown into our popular elections. Thus their interests would be preserved, and the public
It • has wrested Nottingham from the Whigs ! Can be protected.
a stronger proof be required of the potency of the STANDARD.—Mr. Walter has been returned for
public feeling e Nottingham, the safest and closest
of all the large Whig boroughs! Nottingham, which has Nottingham by a majority of 296. At tne last conte,t
witnessed about seven severe contests in the last thirty years, in the same borough four years ago, the Conservative
and seen the Whigs victorious in every one ! Nottingham, to candidate was defeated by a majority of 402
which Mr. Larpent was recommended, as to " a perfectly safe there has therefore been a change in favour of Con-
spoculation "—he having previously declined East Surrey, servative principle on. the part of nearly 800 electors.
on the plea of being engaged to start for the City of London ! .•si• s- gratifying
; but tne mere fact of this change
Nottingham, with its Whig corporation, filling every office in This
the town with electioneering agents! Nottingham, the strong- is not all that we find to rejoice at. The House
est hold, of Dissent that England can produce I Nottingham of Commons has acquired an admirable member, in
itself has postponed or cast away all the seductive theories of every way qualified to protect the interests of the poor
Ballot, Extension of the Franchise, Abolition of Church-rates, there, where their-interests stand in most need of pro-
&c., and has eagerly returned the man who stood boldly and
honestly on his opposition to the Somerset-house tectors. Conservatives and Chartists have been brought
triumvirate. We say boldly and honestly. The Ajinist„id into contact, and, as always happens when sincere and
Journals are often ready to taunt us with the conduct of cer- well disposed men are brought into contact, have been
tain Conservatives, who they tell us use the New Poor•law as taught to respect and to trust each other, anal a
a hustings topic, and then utterly forget it when they reach great lesson has been read to public men of all parties,
the House of Commons. If such there be, with them we have
teaching them that the kind treatment of the working
no sympathy; and we may perhaps hint, that the reason why
mere hustings declamation on the New Poor-law has never classes must be their first care if they would consult
worked such wonders as' we have seen at this Nottingham elec- their own interests, as the well-being of those classes
Lion, has been, that seldom before has any body of electors is the only solid basis of national prosperity and public
had the tender of the services of one on whose sincerity they safety. The working class sof England are riot
might so thoroughly rely as the men of Nottingham felt they in the condition in which they ought to be re-
might oat the earnestness and steadfastness of Mr. Wal-
ler. They knew that the cause which brought their latively to the station of the country. England is by
Candidate to Nottingham, was—net to advance his far the richest country on the face of the earth, but it is
• mowenreppeorlsiotincaall
party, but
to or
raeivseen a tboannseerrvoen twhheicchauwseasoifoa-
ptoaortciceirptaatien tinhatthtishepwreo.erkminingecnleaes_sesthoelyEaergelisnhomteinhedohanc)!
scribed, whether mistakenly or not we shall not now argue, but piest labourers in the world, or nearly such. This
at all events honestly, the cause of the labouring poor. But
Nottingham is not a strange and outlandish place, affording no proves an undue distribution of the profits of labour,
clue to the feelings of the people of England. Will any man which can be corrected only by rejecting the prin-
be so weak as to suppose that the power which has broken in ciple, together 'with the cruel provisions, of the
that borough a yoke which had been quietly borne for more New Poor-law—that principle is to bring down the
than 30 years—will any man imagine that the same spell would
be powerless in Halifax, in Bradford, in Leicester, in Sheffield people to the lowest scale of living u life
pon which
Can- be sustained. The very reverse would be the
—in fact, in an hundred other places that might be named?
~
And is not this a point worth considering; nay, is it not a policy of a wise legislator for a country containing so
point that must be considered? Is not a dissolution, in the much wealth as England. Such a legislator would try,
present state of affairs, at all times just in sight ? Think of to familiarise the working classes not only with coni-
this, gentlemen representatives, whether on the one side of the forts, but with luxuries ; not only as a means to their
House or on the other; and turn your thoughts, while there is oral and social imrovement, but also as ao. means
yet time, to the removal of the deformities of this detested law. moral p
HERALD.—It is exceedingly amusing to observe with what of preventing the accumulation of wealth in the
eagerness the morning ministerial print " came out " to repu-
hands of a few—the greatest evil that can befal any
diate the notion that their defeat on Monday night could pos- people. As a check to the danger of this fatal ca!a-
sibly induce Ministers to resign. Lord John Russell's request mity, nothing can be so effectual as the placing the
fora week (not for a day as the Chronicle says) to consider working classes in a position to extract, by peaceful
which way he was to turn himself, " led to a very ridiculous
misconception of the object of it, which obtained currency in and legal means, a fair share of the profits of their labour,
the clubs—that Ministers were contemplating a resignation." as the system ot the old Poor-law did. The moral improve-
Such a rumour as applied to any other party in a similar pa- ment of the population is, however, the first of all objects ;
sition would be the most semhlable in the world ; and we and this is to any extent impossible under the new Poor-
presume that the Chronicle only means that it is a ridicu- law. You build churches and. establish schools ; you do
lous misconception as applied to the Whigs. Taken in
this sense, there is some reason in its prompt and
well in this; but to what end do you bu Id churches and es-
indignant refutation of the supposed sensitiveness of
tablish schooli, when you passa law which first stigmatizes
her Majesty's Ministers ; and the clubs were very poverty as infamous, and then arrays the population in
wrong to entertain the rumour of such a miracle, until -poi- tee gat bof poverty ? Who ever sees a ragged ONO
tively assured by Lord John Russell himself of the fact. They at church ? How many ragged children have you in
should have remembered how many affronts of the same sort
her Majesty's Ministers had already endured without showing 'your public schools ? `i Where are the mob ?" asked
the slightest sulkiness with office, before believing (except on the Czar Alexander, when surrounded by half a
the best authority) that the drubbing of Monday night would million in Hyde Park ; " all I see here are well-
induce them to budge. Indeed, if Lord Melbourne nimself dressed men." And so it will always be in
had sent them the good news, they should (as the phrase goes) England. Poverty hides itself alike from observation and
have "suspended their judgment" until they had seen het.Lor- •
, instruction. We can give men credit for mistaking the
ship's chattels fairly " bundled cut" of Downing-stre At
any rate the public (after what has passed in the way of bed- tendency of the New Poor-law, but we cannot allow to
chamber intrigue) will look for some such conclusive sign any one who is aware of its tendency the credit for wish-
before they are satisfied that the Whigs have resigned, ing to improve the minds or the temporal happiness of
and that his Lordship has really reconciled hinasa to his fellow-creatures ; and even they who are mistaken
quitting the " gay and festive scene," which has been to him I :
in the tendency of the law are not without blame. las the air which he breathes, and without which it seems as 1
if he would die. But, badinage apart— Men always go wrong ashen they think tiiemseivesnotwithstanding all !
we know of their mean tenacity of office, of the indignities wiser than their Bible ; and the Bible teaches that the
they will endure, and of the tricks they will resort to for its wan,s of the poor are to be relieved promptly and
retention—it is difficult to imagine how they can avoid resign- - directly, without looking to consequences or casting
about for indirect contrivances. These are ing after their signal discomfiture on Monday night. By re- I
considere-
signing, we do not mean the farce of tendering their resin-
nations to her Majesty, and then preventing her Majesty
lions
from conclusively accepting them, by intrigues which render ,'lie men, but which the result of the Nottingham else-
it impossible for any upright set of men to take their (ion will force upon them through their own interests.
offices off their hands. We mean honestly quitting office i COURlER.—Although not insensiole of the import-
" bag ' and baggage," and leaving a fair field for their , ance justly attaching to the ignominious exposure and de •
teat of rhe mean, pitiful, and treacheraus trickery of
successors to conduct the public service to the best of
their ability. The Chronicle considers that this would .
be ridiculous, and cannot see why they should hesitate as to I Ministers in their Irish dia,nor blind to the contingencies
continuing the Government. I'he defeat, it contends, was lit ought and would lead to,were their case that of honour-
no defeat, because a portion of their old allies contributed!, able public men, we are nevertheless disposed to regard
to it. This we take to be the worst and most fatal of all i
the result of the Nottingham election as of much greater
defeats. What general would continue a campaign with an :
importance still, inasmuch as that evetit cannot be coil-
equal force opposed to him, when in every pitched battle a
part of his own troops turned round and assisted in routieg strued into a mere party triumph, but must be accepted
him? With an opposition 'all buc equal to them in number, ias a decisive demonstration of public opinion—a delibe-
and far superior to them in talent, a Ministry, must necessarily 1 rate %judgment of the people of England, upon which
execution should issue, and must—against the policy
be lamentably weak, however zealous and compact its own '
aspy might be. But for a Ministry, so held in check by
and personnel of the most weak, worthless, andprofligrete
owerful Opposition, to pretend to carry on the Go- P
Government which ever betrayed the interests or
vernment (in a manner deserving the name of Govern-
ment), when, upon a measure on which its reputation was debauched the morale of this country since the
staked, its own party contributed to swell a large scandalous times of the , Cabal. The Ministerial
majority against it, would be "ridiculous" indeed. What mea- papers are consohn. themselves and their sure, involving any principle to which it is committed, can the
olosers for this signel'Nottiogbam disaiter by the COO.
em-
present Ministry, after the event of last Monday, propose with • s .
any confidence of carrying it? And without such confidence ' sideration that, so tar as principles are :
in question, it is
' • •
they are utterly useless for all purposes of legislation, in meat solely and wholly attributable to the inveterate hostility
of the
-important branches of.which the Ministry of the day can of popular sentiment ag Weplace, ainst the new Poor-law,
alone take the initiative. They must remain in power—no, iu have no objection so to construe this practical corn. 'place, each the mere nominal representative of his office (ex-
cept so far as the receipt of its salary and the command of its rnentary on the effects of that hateful law ; and, more,
patronage are concerned), without weight in Parliament, with- now is the accepted time, we would say, for the towns
out service to the country, and without credit to themselves; I and parishes of England and Wales to speak as with
and this, after all they have done and suffered for the sake of one voice, and pour their petitions as of one mind, upon
office, would, if possible, be unworthy even of them. the Legislature for the repeal of that abomination, and
POST.—We sincerely congratulate the public on the rescue
of the borough of Nottingham from the hands of the Whig- for the utter extirpation of that grinding tyranny which
Radical faction. This is another Conservative triumph, has too long reigned supreme in Somerset House. We
scarcely inferior in value to that which was achieved in the ' repeat it, " now is the accepted time, now is the day of
House of Commons on the preceding day. What a change salvation ;" now when the Ministerial crew is " flut-
has taken place in the relative strengths of parties in this tered" and flurried by Parliamentary discomfiture ; now,
borough in the short space of four years ! In 1837 the Whig-
when Nottingham has so gloriously led the van of the
Radical candidates triumphed by a majority of seven hundred,
and now we behold a gentleman of the same political school, new Poor-law reform ; now, when on the eve per-
- and of personal pretensions in no respect inferior to those of baps of the accession of other and better men to
the former candidates on the same side of the question, re- office, it more than ever behoves the people, notwith-
jected by a majority of three hundred. .
standing, to make their bargain clear and distinct, so
The numbers at the final close of the poll yesterday were as that-hereafter there neither shall be, nor can be, any
follow :
For Mr. Walter
• For Mr. Larpent 1,722 is afforded, and by which it must be maintained. We
Majority . ... --296 are the more earnest in this advice, inasmuch as there
Our Ministerial Contemporaries must endeavour to console has been some " tripping" among professing Comer-
themselves under this defeat, as they do under that with which natives about the . new Poor-law, and more by far
we have ventured to compare it, by the persuasion that the
question at Nottingham was not a party question, indeed than will be tolerated for the future. Let those
and that
there cannot possibly be any party triumph, because the Min's- concerned look to it well, or they may turn and spin
terial defeat gas -been in part occasioned by a division in the and cry for help in vain, when another day of trial
Ministerial ranks.
comes, and the constituency must be faced from the
Howick's a R
mendment onh ' Monday night
. ADVETISER. —Te defeat pf the
is Mconsideyred in all no inistr on Lord hustings. It is; and will be, saving grace on that day
quarters as one of the most contemptible manoeuvres that was with the people, or with those, like ourselves, engaged
,
ever attempted against an Administration. That it can by any in the service of the people, to place on the record a plea
possibility disturb its existence, we know to be utterly and to- ofgeneral Tory or Conservative principles in abatement of
tally out of the question. The Administratioa relies on the the sin of voting for the New Poor law Continuance •Bi
force of public opinion. It relies upon the justice of its cause
and upon the utter impossibility of any Tory Government
supplanting it, which has not the interests of Ireland at heart. i
The Duke of Wellington and Nir R. Peel at the beginning of
the Session told their adherents, that they would not support
them in any factious movement; and if we guess right, it is to
mbeore
take office themselves. The public generally will, perhaps,
inferred
inclinedfrotmo
stehlips
edretctl
the
rea tpi orneseorn, t their
iepartr
at ht
iaete theyn atree
not believe this to be the fact ; but the emoluments of office
Right Hon. Baronet have arty occasion whatever to consider
caereenterei
tflieedg
wciormh paitre;d wandi thnetili lab
the
ertohuer, Noble
a eblD.
ekie; d
eanxiety
e
the amount of salary as a thing in the slightest degree calcu-
lated to promote their pleasures or comforts.
GLOBE.—Amid the dust and din of party strife,
it is truly refreshing to find that there are sortie sub-
jecte, the commanding importance of which silences the
contentions of partisanship, and which obtain, by the
mere force of their acknowledged claans, the soon.
'lancet's advocacy of those who on most questions
are diametrically opposed in opinion, either as
to the objects or time mode of their accomplish.
ment. The appalling exhibitions which are of com-
mon occurrence irrand the dangers to the public health
st to
cleat ratcyl e 4 g thee
ex . hpi ub
bi
t lei cd
ii°:
occasioned by, the crowded state of this metropolitan
grave yards, is or,e of those subjects. Without respect
those
es
repositories
i trecordedththeeli
dead,orr i,h)
cl e..
"skirted lay-the necessity of opening graves for new inter_
meats before the process of decomposition its tops° previ.
the mourners have stood around the grave in which are
onslY Placed therein is complete. In many instances, whiie.

MONEY MARIS.t.T and CITY NEWS
- -

FROM THE MORNING PAPERS OF YESTERDAY.
TIMES.—The premium on gold at Paris is per mile,
which, at the English Mint price of 31. 17s. 101/2d. per ounce
for standard gold, gives an exchange of 25. 34, and the ex-
change at Paris on London at short, being 25. 44, it follows
that gold is'o 34 per cent. dearer in London than in Paris.
By advices from Hamburgh the price of gold is 424 per mark,
which, at the English Mint price of 31. Us. 10id. per oui,ce
for standard gold, gives an exchange of 13. 64, and the ex-
change at Hamburgh on London at short being 13. 4, if fol-
lows 'that gold is 0.34 per cent. dearer in London than in
Hamburgh.
There is still an evident tendency in the English s?curities
to decline, and though there was not much busi.us3 dune dur.
irg the day, the offers of money stock for sale acted prejudi-
cially on prices in general.

POST.—The English Funds fell again this morning, in
consequence of the decided defeat of the Ministry last night in
the House of Commons. With so large a minority there ap-
pears to most people to be no alternative but for the present
men to go out of office; and every crisis of the kind, causing,
as it must, a demand for money for electioneering purposes, is
found to have an unfavourable influence on prices.
It would seem that the Decayed Members' Fund of the
Stock Exchange has suffered more seriously by the reported
breach of trust un tlie part Of a Estee than had been Supposed.
A further deficiei,cy of from 5001. to 6001 is said to have been
detected.

To show' that there is no real cause for despondency with res-
pect to the Presi&nt steam-ship, we desire to call the atten-
tion of the publ c to the case of a vessel bound from Halifax,
lltiova-iieciti4, to Jkmaioa, which was dismasted On the ]oth of
February list, in muchale-sante situation In whiCh the Presi:

d.nt may be supposed to have been a month subsequently. We
allude to the ship Ellen, Captain BrOwn, . This vessel was the
whe- day placed on the hoofs at I.loydas having aryl,
distress at-Antiema on rue 17th of March, aCtkr
age of thirty-five days from the pint at Milli: It st.e hal su:'-
fered the loss of her masts, lat. 40. long. 63. Assuming
that the President may have found hdrself in circumstances
similar to those of the Ellen, and like her have pro:-
cceded to 'Antigua—for there is not much probability. of
her making Bermuda—it will be right to allow till the
middle of April for the purpose. To hear of her having
reached Antigua would require, upon a fair avenge computa-
tion of the time consumed in the pasqt2e thence to England.
at least thirty days, which will give the missing steamer about
three weeks longer. It may be ftirther stated, that,, some
years since, a frigate was dismasteil in the month of Septem-
ber about 300 miles to the south of. St. John's, Newfoundland,
and that, with all the strengqi of her crew, she could not be
put in a condition to get to that port in less than seventeen
days. Many other initances, some quite recently recorded on
the books of the underwriters, might be adduced in support of
the impression that the President will still eventually be heard
of. The fact that calms had succeeded the heavy gales of
the 12th, 13th, and 14th ult. is to be regarded as favourable to
such a result.

LA W INTELLIGENCE.
VICE-CHANCELLOR'S COURT, APRIL 2R.
No case of any interest came before his Honour the Vice-
Chancellor this morning.

COURT OF QUEEN'S BENCH, -APRIL 28.
THE QUEEN V. THE BRISTOL DOCK COMPANY.
The arguments in this ease, which were part-heal don Satin.-
d..y last, were resumed this morning by Sir W. FOLLETT. The
arguments of the Learned Counsel were directed to show that
according to all the authorities which bore upon the subject,
Cumberland basin should be rated only. to such a sum for
the relief of the poor as the property would be rated as if it
had been merely meadow land, and independently of the port
duties, which were levied by the Company upon vessels enter-
ing that basin.
After hearing the arguments of Counsel the Court took time
to consider its decision.

' BAIL COURT, APRIL 28.
The Court was engaged this morning in hearing motions,
none of which presented any features of interest. His Lord-
ship rose at 12 o'clock.

COURT OF EXCHEQUAR, APRIL 28.
The Court was engaged this morning with special cases,
the arguments in which were purely technical, and of no inte-
rest to the public.

OLIOE INTELLIGENCE.
MANSION-HOUSE.
Mr. Bell, the newspaper agent of Finch-lane, appeared
before Sir Peter Laurie for the purpose of comptainit g
if an odd way of raising the wind, which was resorted to
through the instrumentality of his office. Upon a former
day Sir Peter Laurie directed that summonses should be
served upon the parties whose conduct was arraigned, but
no notice was taken of the MagiStrate's audio: ity, and the
complainant was celled upon to make his statement.
"Mr. Bell said that he was in the habit of allowing
letters on husine-s to be addressed to his office. He was,
however, not a little surprised to find that without his
autitor;ty, the following advertisement appeared in the
Times siewsp,per Wanted a Cleik for a merchant's
ceunt,ng-house. Salary to commence at 1001 per annum.
Apply by letter free, in applicant', own handwriting, with
postage stamp, inclwed to R. J. S. and Co., Bell's
newspaper office, Finch-lane." Letters poured in, as
might be expected, to the number of about 500. At last
a young man, who stated himself to be clerk to an East
India merchant, called and said that the advertisement
was inserted through his interposition. He (Mr. Bell)
very sharply reprehended such a liberty, and, suspecting
that there was some dishonesty connects d with the matter,
opened ore of the letters, which wag as follows :
Croydon, April 14, 1841.
answer to the advertisement in the Times news-
paper of the 13th inst., reapecing a c erk in a merchant's
counting-house, at 1001. per annum, enclosing a postage-
stamp, I beg to tell R. J. S. that your scheme or the con-
templated robbery with all your ingenuity is a stale trick,
and for your better information I beg to refer you to the
cases on the point tried at the Central Criminal Court
lately, where Adey and several other persons have been
detected and convieted, and a great many of them have
b, en transported, independent of which I shall feel it my
duty to follow you up and trace who you are, and if not
successful expose the dirty work, by cautioning the public
against you by a counter advertisement.
I am, Sirs, your obedient servant,
To R. J S. and Co. THOS. JONES.
The letter just read completely opened his eyes, and
upon opening the other communications which still con.
linued to pour in lie found a postage .stamp in each, with
the exception of one, the writer of which not being sup-
plied with a stamp enclosed sixpence.
Sir PETER LAURIE—Then it was in your opinion done
fur the purpose of obtaining the penny stamp on each
letter ?
Mr. Bell said that he believed the object of the adver-
tiser to be of a much deeper character. He had no doubt
that the fellow who cot cocted the plan meant to turn his
unconscious correspondents to some advantage of a more
important nature. He (Mr. Bell) was well known in the
great commercial towns of England, and the inference
which would be immediately drawn from the advertise-
rnent was that reliance might be placed upon its authentic
character from the fact of the reference to his office. He
therefore felt that there was immediate occasion to expose
the deception.
Sir PETER LAURIE asked where the clerk to the East
India merchant was?
Mr. Bell said he bad every reason to suspect that the
young man was kept out of the way uy the fabricators of
tbe.scheme, one of whom wore an enormous pair of mous-
!adios, and had what was called an imperial chin, being
completely covered with hair, and the very cut of a scamp.
The East India merchant attended for the purpose of
stating that his clerk had no doubt been made the dupe
of two others in the office. He entertained a favourable
ooinion of the young man, and believed him to be incapa-
ble of any deliberate ill conduct, but the two persons wto
vised the plan were most certainly a pair of schemers.-
Mr. Bell thought
.so too. One of tl.e persons called
upon him to justify this proceeding, and spoke very hi.th,
but he ( Mr. Bell) told the gentleman in very plain lan-
guage his candid opinion of such conduct, and felt disposed
to kick hi n out of the house as s common swindler. The
felkw.had the impudence to declare Oat it was he that
wanted the clerk, and that he had written answers to all
the applicants whose letters he had received. Of the art-
fulness of the design there did not exit tile least doubt.
The East India merchant said that his clerk was, he bad
every reason to tbi de, kept out of the way by the two men
whose dupe he bat bce.). The young man stated, upon
he'ng spoken to about the share he had in the m,tter, that
the pat ties alluded to had applied to him to know where
they could have h nets directed to them, and he told them
that be did not know a b tier place than Mr. Bell's, to
which relerences wove often made in public advertise-
ments. The unfortunate young man was actually ruined
by the transaction.
Sir PETER LAURIE said that in all probability the object
of Mr. B. 11 would be fully answered by the public exposure
that would be given of she trick, which lie was convinced
was meant to produce much more than the postage stamps.
The depraved ingenuity of man was every day showing
itself- in new shapi a, and he was resolved to put every
schemer who should be brought before him at the bar of
the Central Criminal Court.

ELECTION COMMITTEE.
The Committee appointed to try the mtritf, of the peti.
Lion against the return of Mr, Armstrong, for King's
County, rset ye,terday. J. W. Patten, Esq., Chairman.
Mr. Sergeant Wrangbam and Mr. Talbot appeared for
the petitioner ; Mr.- Austin and Mr. Cockburn for the &-
Sing Member. •

Mr. Serg, a ,t WRANOHAM apprehended that according
to preeedt n.t the only business for them that day was to
exchange lists and adjourn.
Afier a long discus:ion the Committee decided that,
under the new law, there was no necessity for their ad-
journing on the first day, as was usual, heretofore, in
Irish cases.

Mr. Sergeant WRANOHAM then stated the case on the
part of the petition. The election took place in February
lest. During the polling notice was given that the sitting
member was disqualified, he being in receipt of a pension
as compensation for the loss of hi 3 office of Receiver_
General for Stamps in Ireland. The Learned Gentleman
cited a number of Acts of Parliament to show, first—that
the office in question was one which disqualified its holder
from sitting in Parliament, and that receiving a pension in
compensation for the loss of that office continued tha
fication. He then cited ether acts and decisions of the Court
to show that a salary or pension coming through the Lords
Commissioners of the Treasury, was a pension during
pleasure, and was revokable at the will of the Crown.
The Learned Gentleman was interrupted in his address
by the announcement that the Speaker was at prayers.
The Committee then adjourned till to-day at 11 o'clOcit.
T

•
HE POOR.—Some one talked of the pains
taken to provide the poor with receipts for making good
dishes out of their ordinary messes. " I dislike all such
interference," he said, " all your domiciliary, kind, imper-
tinent visits : they are all pretty much felt like insults, and
do no manner of good. Let people go on in their own
way, in God's name. How would you like to have a
nobleman coming to you to teach you to dish up your
beefsteaks into a French kickshaw ? and who is there so
miserably put to his ways and means that will endure to
have another coming to teach him how to economise and
keep his account; ? Let the poor alone in their domestic
habits I pray you : protect them and treat them kindly, of
course, and trust them; but let :hem enjoy in quiet their
dish of porrige, and their bacon and potatoes ; and, for
any sake, don't torment them with your fashionable soups.
And t:,ke care," he added, " not to give them anything
gratis, except when they are under the gripe cf imme-
diate misery—what they think misery—Consider it as a
sin to do anything that can tend to make them lose the
precious feeling of independence. For my part, I very,
very rarely g•ive anything away. Now, for instance, this
pile of branches, which has been thinned out this morning,
is placed here for sale for the poor people's fires; see
am peif.:ctly cottain they are more grateful to me for sell-
ing it at the price I do (which you may be sure is no great
matter), than it I ?tem to give them t!,n time 4 the quan-
tity for nothing. Every shilling collected in tl i 4 and
other similar manners, goes to a fund which pays the dooor
for his attendance on them when they are sick 1 And this is
my notion of cha, ity l"—Loci,hert's Life of Scott.
THE CARRION CROW.--About noon on TtleS-
day the attention -of the visitors
;.:a die ornamental gardens of
St. James's Park was called to a large carrion crow hovering
over the lake, apparently with the intention of attacking some
of the birds. After contemplating the dimensions of an
Egyptian goose for some time, he soared to a great height,
from whence he descended with groat velocity, pouncing upon
a duck whichthe time seeking insects in the grass,
itirrounded. hy a numerous brood of young ones. The large
s
yellow bill a the carrion crow penetrated the neck of the
duck, but did not kill it ; the crow then soared aloft again,
and came down rapidly, striking hi prey again in the neck,
which extinguished- life. The ferocious bird immediately
seized the duck in its mouth, and flew off in the (jirectior;
of
Carlton Gardens. He, hnovera Eut-squendy %heeled round
aqd wired to a mare secluded spot, the rookery at Spring
Gardens, to enjoy his meal.