The Sun.
London, England, 1812-01-28 00:00:00

side of the question. On the other It was pro-
posed to add the Bum of 70,0001 which would
bring it to 800,0001. to which must be added also,
.50,0001. to be, given- to his Royal Highness as
Prince of Wales, making in the wb01e1350,0001.
leavipg the Civil List Revenue its the hands of his
Royal Highness 50,0001. less than what his iloyal
Rather enio;ed: Now', whether the sum so p'ro-
posed to be given was enough to maintain the dg-
Laity of the Sovereign he Could not say, and 'there-
fore it was necessary he House shOuld be inform-
ed. It had been stated toe by the Right HOn.
Gentleman that his Royal Highness would tie- •
fray the expences of the Windsor establishment
when there, obt .of the Revenue thus appro-
priated for his purpose; but with respect to Carl-
ton House, here was no precise- information
given ; without full infmr4tion, the House vvould,
by passing this Bill, run great chence of de
eels/mg the country, as was the case in 1804, and
seeing how injurious that precedent was, it was
dangerous for the House to aat typo it. Besides,
the House was called upon now to make a new
Civil List for what he must consider a new reign.—
The Prince at Present enjoys a revenue of 120,0001.
bf which 50,0001. is iu th'snew order of things to
be deducted, and then a sum of 70,0001. annually
wille-emain in his hands, which, alter deducting the
'50;0004 101 be applied to the Civil List, would leave
A balance of 20,0001. over this 70,0001. Parliament,
as the Bill proposed, was not to have controul ; that
his Royal Highness would administer it faithfully
and duly he bad not the least doubt ; but notwith-
standing this opinion, sill Ire roust consider the pro-
position as a monstrous one, which called a Parlia-
ment to vest so large a sum as 70,0001. annually
without-any sort of controul. Not only this part of
- t he arrangement.was objettionable, but many others.
In her Majesty was to be vested the color-out over .
the 170,0001. to be applied for his Majesty's House-
hold. There were to 'be two privy purses, one
under her Majesty's directions, the other under the
controul of the Prince Regent. That of the Prince
Regent 0160,000. was correct and proper; but with
respect to the 70,0001. for his Majesty's use, he saw
no just grounds, because his Majesty would not
administer the Government. By this arraege-
men!, what would become of Mr. Burke's
If the privy pursed his Royal Highness, for instance,
was net to be subject to controul, then his Royal
Highness. would have conveyed to Wm a sum of
130,0001. with the full knowledge mud apprebstion
of Parliament. Her Majesty would also have
35,001. deducted from the privy purse of his Ma-
jesty, the residue being reserved far the payment of
the Medical Establishment, which might perhaps
amount to bur a trifle, and the bilance would be
conveyed to these three CoMmissioners. Tee House
must see, under the proposed arrangements, in how
very extraordinary a light. the matter stood,—recol-
leering always, that the Privy Purse did not of tight
belong to the man, but to the office, and, in this
case would be vested in the person who. could not
administer the Government. He might be charged
with making captious objections,—but was this a
captious objection ? He did not object to the en-
tire sum of 170;0001. because, with the information
before him, lie did not knoW whether that sum was
too, much or: too little.—Was it to be understood,
that all the charges would remain on the Privy Purse
to be held by her Majesty, because, if so, the Re-
gent would stand with 130,0001. at his diaposal,
and her Majesty have a sum of seventy thousand
pounds for the Medical Attendants. With the
kn ;sledge of the enormous amount of private pro-
pe-ty he could not consent. to vote such a sum.—
But suppose the fact was not so, and that only
05,0001. shoeldsremain at her- Majesty's dispossl
for the purposes b lure stated, how could so large a
sum bd necessary ? Prove it, and no man would
more readily vote it ; but he could not give his con-
sent to such a vote while there existed the possibility
of its being applied to the increase of private pro-
perty. He could not with regard to the public in-
terests-agree to provide otherwise than sufficiently
and abundantly for the maintenance of his M 'jests,
befitting his station. Without further information
he could not pi oceed. The disposition and arrange-
ment of the Privy Purse formed one of the main ob-
jections which he had to the Bill. The House
must recolleCt, that in making these arrangements
they were making them for a ne,welteign. It was
his wish.that his Royal Highness should ascend tpe
Throne not only with the confidence, but wi:h the
blessings of the people. The R-elit Hon. Gentle-
mao had said that the sum of 70,0001. was to be
placed in the hands of !he Prince '' to meet "certain
engagements of honour." What did the Hon.
Geneeman Mean ? di 1 he mean that his Royal High-
ness had cet lain debts to' discharg,e, for he could
mean nutlong else, What those engagements were,
to be sure, he did not know unless they related to
debts. It so, and those debts were -thoroughly
sifted, his Royal Highness would not be found sub-
ject to any other observation than that he had not
acted upon all occasions with due propriety; that
in some instances negligence might be imputed to
his condutt, and in others the charge of profusiod:
He should nut aCt either as the friend of hi; Royal
Highness or of the people, if he did not say these
"engagements" of which the Right lioriouiatall
Gentleman talked ought to be stared ty, arid in
an open manner to the House. If it wad hoended
to repose confidence in the Prince, and had him as
the footle soveteign, let the House act liberally--
pay his debts. He knew, that in thus speaking out
he was perhaps not seeking popularity. He cared
not for the interpretation which might be put
upon, his conduit, or whether he offended high or
low--he still must sty, that unless the debts were
disgracefully contracted, Parliament ought to pay
them. There was nothing, in his opinion, more
dangerous to the Monarchy, than to have it under-
stood in the country that his Royal Highness had
engagements which were of such a nature as not
proper to be laid before Parliament. It was not con-
sidered monstrous to pay the debts of his Royal Fa-
ther, because they were contracied in providing that
sMendour necessary to the support and maintenance
of the dignity of the Crown. The objection might
be taken if' his 11,foral Highness remained in the
station of Prince of Wales, but when he ceased to be
Prince, then the question assumed another aspect.
Was lab condod to be held up to the country in a
variety of points of view, which he would abstain
from touching upon? In times like these it was not
prudent to pursue any course which might be dan-
gerous to the Monarchy. He must call to the re-
colleClion of the House that clause in the Bill which

noticed the excess in the 'Civil List e.ttpe-ndit-tire of
-
00. annual
ly, on the average, since 1804. It
was 1
it right to pay that excess, and he did' not
2 4:0
question it, would- it not be eqoally an a& of justice
to discharge these "- engagements?" It was not
dealing justly by the Prince to, say that his debts
had already beets paid by the public: They were
not paid by the public, but by reserving for that
purpoSe a part of his Royal Highness's income,
Which was regularly paid pp to 1804, wanting about _
two years of the time of completing payment of ail
the demands. The Right Hon. Gentleman•recom-
- mended to the House the necessity of placing the
establishment upon-some footing with respea to ar-
rangement,which might conduce to (he honour and.
sattsladion of those who gave, and of those who
received. With respeet to the proposition for the
care of the Princesses, namely, that in town
Royal Highness was to pro% ide the establishment for
them, and in the country her Majesty ; that was a
proposition • s Bich met his decided di.4approbation.
An Establishment ought to be formed separate for
the Princesses ; they were arrived at an Age when rt_
became necessary ; but the whole of the arrange-
ments carried with them the air of suspicion. It was
not alittleextraordivary-that the Right Hon.-Gentle-
man refused to come forward v. ith a permanent regu-
,lation, especially when all were ready to bear the .
burt hens v. hich must be imposed, with cheerfulness.
Whitt other object could-the Right Hon. Gritleman
have in view, in thus legislating from year to year,
but this : to keep his Royal Highness every year
under- reatrialons, in order that he might be induced
lo give something to his Ministers ?—,But he (Mr.
Tierney) wished to see him. relieVed from his em-
barrassments, not by proposing atty la%ish grants,
but by giving to his Royal Highness what this House
ought to give, and which, when given
might settle his emaart ssments-etfeAnally. NVas
too much to say that he Was mistrusted u ho was not
allo3ed the management of the-servants, necessary
to !his Royal father ? Would not any set) in the
humble cundii'uus of life suppose so ? Would he
not consider .himself ill-treated by the adoption of
sue?! unnecessary and suspicious arrangements ? But
was there any advantagelikely to accrue to his Ma-
jesty from it ?--Assntninge-eheefattairat his-Majesty
did req,iire a Lord of the aeleliarnber, a Groom of
the Stole, and the Equerries formerly in attendance,
what was there to prevent the Queen from asking
those officers from the Prince Regent? Could any
one suppose that he would refuse them ? Was there
any difficulty in her Majesty's demanding the at-
tendance of those servant. who were known to 'be
most in the favour of his Majesty ? The Queen had
the whole management of the Household for the laat *,
year, but where was the advantage of that what
was the fact ? Up to July last, a few Lords in wait-
ing, a few Equerries, &c. were deemed necessary,
but since that period the opinions of the Physicians
went entirely to sbew that they were no longer want-
ing. But where, he would ask, was the necessity
for a separate Court ?—For a Gault not responsi-
ble; for a Court whose expenses were not cog-
nizable by the Treasury and was not such a Cow t
created by this Bill ? By it the sum of 110,0001.
was put under the controhl of the Queen. Four •
Lords of the Bed-chamber were granted to her, a
Groom of the Stole, and, altogether, twenty-one
offices wete at her disposal fur the maintenance of
the dignity of the King. It ought to be recolleated,
in the meat time, that under the former artange-
tnettt, when his Majesty wash ippily enabled to per-
form the duties of a Monarch, the Queen's establish-
ment let-let-led a splendour on that of the King; in
short, the operation of each was -reciprocal; but,
under the arrangement now proposed, the Queen's
Establishment was separated from that of the Prince
Regetit. He had no hesitation to call it a different
Court a for, with all the different officers included in
the Bill, with the pages of the back stairs ar.d the
• pages of the front stairs, it was utterly inipossible
to consider it in any other point of view. ft this was
not a separate Court, he would wish to know'what
was. H'is objections to such a system were strong
in eae,y view of it ► -for, supposing the Prince and
that Court to pull together, it would operate as a
gre,t increase of the influence. of the Crown. The
Prince would of necessity supply all those places for
himaeif which were aiready.filled for his Majesty.--
Supposing, on the other' hand, that political did-ea
(even that suppoaition
and he was sure no others could
r•ences shoidd arise,
was hiahly improbable), to
,vs hat a situation would -the Prince. be reduced with
a Court in opposition. The airily ground that he.
could see for ail this was, awish for continuing the
system of last year, a 5) stem of distrust._ He -was
warranted in calling. it a system of distrust ;
for it was evident, though his. Royal .Highness
• was not in a situation to
.speak his mind, 'ex-
cept through 'the medium of Ministers, • that be
thought
.so. The object of the Bill was to
make her Majesty a substantive and •sepataie
character, and . to invest her Majesty, with a
power which he thought she ought not to have.—
, He was sure distil her Majesty were riresentao hear
• him, she would chink the better of him for this de-
claration ;: she-coal have no wish fOr the creation
-of such a power, but there were others, he thought,-
: W'ho might e kit it in the present uncertain stale 'of
things. The U•ieen could oot wish for su':h a re-
gtllation as was rtcOmmended; aiid it was impossible
that Alia Royal Highness the Prince Regent, should,
for hum opinion was expleases to the cow tary. The
Bill was intended to hand over- the. Monarchy into
She hands of the Prince of Wales, but was it a pro-
per one for that purpose ? It he e: ere asked here
in what manner would he provide fur the custody of
his Majesty's person, or ao whom would he entrust
it ? Undoubtedly, he would entrust it to her who
could have no other feeling, and scarcely any other
rimy, than to at rend to_ his wants and wishes. , He
would entrust it to the Queen, but at the same time
that he adopted this step, lie would have a sum
granted in the Civil List to the. Prince Regent, for
the purpose of meeting the necessary previsions for
his Majesty. Those who recommended a contrary
curse acted from, suspicion, and recommended a
ciaurse improper at ad times, but mote particularly
'so atter the experience of the last twelve years. He
would ask, could any son behave with more filial
and dutitul consideration for a parent, could any son
have acquitted himself better or more feelingly ?
then he would say this Bill ought not to pass. The
upshot of the whole was, that some general regula-
tion ought to be come to, though nothing could be
more improper than that which formed the stabjett
of discussion. If it was said that the undertaking
of a different one would drive them on the period '