The Sun.
London, England, 1841-11-23 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONEPON. TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 23, 1841.

eluded .his observations upon the subject of the Spanish
Government, he would beg to state his belief that no
other Government in Europe could have effected so
many important reforms, and discharged more honourably
the duties imposed upon them, than the Government of
which Espartero was at the head.—(Hear.) That was
not the first occasion upon which he (Mr. Wyllie) had
found himself called upon, in consequence of his know-
ledge of Spanish character, and his former resi-
dence in Spain, to raise his voice at a pub-
lic meeting in defence of The honour of Spa-
niards
individually. He believed the character of
the people was not rightly understood, and he was per-
suaded that the conduct of the Government of Es-
partero was not only calculated to elicit the warm
approval of their friends, but he was sorry to be
obliged to add the jealousy of their French
neighbours. He was exceedingly sorry to find
that there was reason to believe that, notwithstanding
the high character of the King of the French, his Ma-
jesty bad countenanced a course of proceeding in Spain
calculated to disorganise that country, and to retard its
social progress. He felt strongly that nothing emanating
from that meeting should be thought capable of conveying
any censure -of the existing Spanish Government ; and
he thought that the policy of the Bondholders was to
give that Government the weight of their moral support.—
( Hear, hear.) The two memorials were merely to be
signed for the purpose of keeping up the chain of official
correspondence ; and it was not to be supposed that they
were forwarded to Lord Aberdeen from any doubt that
the Spanish Government meant, to the utmost of its
power, to act honourably towards them.—(Hear.)
Mr. TOMLINSON was quite surprised at the
statement that had been made, that Mr. Ricardo
was not responsible for the act of his principal.
He denied such a proposition; he asserted as a com-
mercial man that he was responsible, and must
know full well the whole effect of the contract entered
into with Spain.—(Hear, hear.) It was then said by the
worthy gentleman to the right of the chair, that
they were not in a situation to go to the Legis-
lature. Good God, had they not waited for
eighteen years, in the hopes of having a return for
the money, and had not 200,000 British subjects
either being confined in lunatic asylums, or died in the
greatest penury through that?—(Hear, hear, hear.)
tinder these circumstances, he thought his friend
to the right of the Chairman was wrong in say-
ing that they were not in a condition to go to Parka-
ment.—(Hear.) He felt convinced, if they went
to the Legislature, the contractor and his agent would
be ashamed of what they had done. He thought, how-
ever, if they did-not make the matter public by bringing
it before the House of Commons, it would be impossible
for them to do any good.—(Hear, hear.) He thought
not only the Spanish but the Portuguese Bond-
holder ought to petition the Legislature, and there
would then be a strong handle for the Secre-
tary of State ; at present all he could do
was to write a recommendation, which, probably,
would never be attended to. He thought, if what he
had suggested was carried into effect, Mr. Ricardo and
others would attend their meetings.—(Hear, hear.) All
he could say upon that was, that if they did Rot, they
would not act as honourable men.

Mr. WYLLIE wished to say one word in reply. He did
not mean to dispute the immense injury which had been
inflicted upon the Bondholders by the delays upon the
part of the Governments of Portugal and Spain iii former
tunes—they had all felt that, and had all suffered—but
now, when they had got a *Government in Spain desirous
to do justice, he thought it was but fair that they should
have a fair trial. He did not see how an appeal to our
Legislature could benefit them in any way;
and an appeal to it, and a refusal on their
part to take up the question, would much damage the
position of the Bondholders. They had now got an
honest Government in Spain ; it was then only fair
and politic that they should be afforded time to do jus-
tice. Let them pass the resolutions, and not let their
feelings carry them beyond the objects of the meeting.
Mr. TomuNsoN entirely agreed that the present Go-
vernment of Spain was the most honest they had had to
deal with, and he was disposed to give them a fair trial,
but that would be done within the next three months,
and if in that time justice was not done them, he would
most strongly advise an appeal to our Legislature.
Mr. TASKER having taken an active part since the
formation of the Committee, in which he had had
the honour of working with Mr. Tomlinson,
would appeal to him to say whether during the
last thirteen or fourteen years, they had not
sent petitions and memorials one after another, and had
written at least a dozen letters, yet not one answer had
they ever got. But since the accession of the present Mi-
nister of Finance there had not been a single application
made but had metwith an immediate and almost satisfactory
answer.—(Cheers.) It was under these circumstances he
congratulated the meeting on their being able to bring
their case before a Minister who would pay the utmost
attention to.their claims. Having such a Minister to go
to would render it unnecessary for them to appeal
to our own Legislature.
The CHAIRMAN said that, before he put the resolu-
tions which had been read, together with the memorial,
he begged to make a few observations. He had stated
before that the long continuance of civil war
in Spain had exhausted the resources of that
country, and ,he was convinced that it was that
alone which was the cause of the dividends
being in arrear. With respect to a neighbouring country,
which owed him upwards of. 900,000 t, he saw many
Portuguese Bondholders present, and he need not tell
them, but he would tell those parties who were not
Bondholders, that the crown of Portugal was
hypotheticated to the Bondholders, and strange
as it might appear, the revenue of that king.
dom was taken, not to pay their (the Bond-
holders') dividends, but to pay the dividends on the
local stock. There was now l per cent. due in arrear
on the Portuguese Bonds. He (the Chairman) was a
creditor to the amount of nine hundred thousand pounds.
The only satisfaction he had was, that he could
do without it, and that while Portugal had stopped pay-
ment, Richard Thornton had not.—(Laughter and
cheers.) He wished to draw their attention to Spain,
who had not served them as Portugal had done. She
told them she would pay them equally with the local
stockholders ; and could they in fairness ask more ?
They had every confidence in the present Ministry of
Spain. Let them tell the Spanish Government that
they had confidence in them, or their Chairman had,
and if they disappointed their hopes he would hold up
his hand with his friend Tomlinson, and say, they
might put him first in their ranks to go the Legislature.
But he implored them to agree to the resolutions and the
memorial. Perhaps the memorial would be better with
a little alteration. He had not read it till he had come
into the room ; but those trifling alterations he left to
the Committee. Still he hoped that they would agree
to those resolutions and the memorial, and show to the
Spanish Government that they had confidence in them.
The resolutions and the memorial were then put and
agreed to.
Mr. T. THORNTON rose to propose a vote of thanks to
Mr. Zulueta, and moved the following resolution :
" That the letter of M. Zulueta is of much importance,
inasmuch as it clearly shows that the non-execution, by
previous Governments of Spain, of the laws and decrees
appertaining to Spanish Passive Stock, is the primary
cause of his resigning the important post of Commis-
sioner for Spain ; and hence the holders of Passive Stock
have, as far as M. Zulueta is concerned, reason to be
thankful to that gentleman for the stand he has made ;
and this meeting is of opinion, as long as the claims of
the Passive Bondholders are neglected, a blot will re-
main on Spanish credit, which nothing but a strict ob-
servance and performance of the obligations due from
the Spanish Government to this class of creditors can
wash out."

Mr. WYLLIE concurred in the view of the Hono-
rary Secretary relative to the honourable conduct
and good intentions of M. Zulueta. At the same
time that ho agreed in the spirit of the resolu-
tion, he thought it better to modify it. He could not
but regret the tone selected by M. Zulueta for
his resignation, at a time when Spain had an honest
man for her Minister of Finance, because it might
imply distrust of the Spanish Government. His objzlc-
tion was to that part of the resolution which related to
that transaction. He fully approved of the reso-
lution, as far as it went, to convey their thanks
to him for the information he had so readily furnished
upon all occasions. But it certainly would be politic to
avoid the question at issue between M. Zulueta and
the Spanish Government. He would, therefore, express
his wish that the resolution should be modified in
conformity with the suggestion he had offered.
He then moved that the resolution proposed by
the Secretary should be amended as follows:—" That the
thanks of this meeting be given to M. Zulueta for his
frank communication of this day, and also for his former
communications."

The CHAIRMAN said that if the meeting should be
pleased to pass the resolution as amended by Mr.Wyllie,
he: would write to M. Zulueta, thanking him for the
communication, stating that it had met the appro-
bation of the meeting, which returned him its
thanks. He thought that would be the better plan.
The letter manifested a feeling highly honourable to
M. Zulueta, as he refused to undertake any further
arrangements for the Spanish Government until those
arrangements entered into by former Governments should
be religiously and faithfully carries out.
The resolution, as amended by Mr. Wyllie, was then
put and carried unanimously.
Mr. WYLLIE would propose to the meeting another re-
solution, which he thought was necessary, in order to
show that whatever might transpire as to their proceed-
ings of this day, it was far from their intention
to offer any offence to the present Government of
Spain, in which they had the greatest confidence.
The resolution he should propose was, " That there was
nothing in the contents, either of the resolutions or the
memorial agreed to at the present meeting, intended to
cast the slightest censure on, or manifest the least dis-
trust of, the present Administration of Spain."—
(Cheers.) There was also another resolution which he
had to propose, relating to a point of official
routine. It ought to be understood that, according to
official etiquette, the Committee could not address the
memorial directly to his Highness the Regent. It ought
to be communicated to his Highness through his Minis-
ter of Finance, and it was necessary that a resolution
should be passed, ordering the memorial to be trans-
mitted to his Highness in the proper manner,
and through the regular channel. As Regent of Spain,
he occupied the same situation with respect to his Mi-
nistry
and to his nation that the Queen occupied in this
country. He
man be requested to address a letter to his Excellency
would, therefore, propose that the Chair-
Don Pedro Surra y Rull, the Spanish Minister of
Finance, thanking his Excellency for his exer-
tions on behalf of the Bondholders and pray-
ing him to elevate the memorial to the attention
of his Highness the Regent. He used the word elevate
because it was the Spanish phrase usually used on occa-
sions when communications were transmitted from an
inferior to a superior.
Mr. Tomarisox suggested that it might be more ad-

viseable to transmit the memorial through the Spanish
Ambassador.

Mr. WYI.UE thought that very shortly a change would
take place at the Spanish Embassy. Indeed he believed
that Senha Sancho, a liberal-minded man, and one who
in former Parliaments had, long before Surra y
Rull had become Minister, stood up with him
to advocate the claims of the foreign Bondhold-
ers, had been already appointed to the Embassy
in London. On his arrival it would be proper to enter
into communication with him on the subject, but in the
interim, as they had already had several communications
with the Finance Minister on the subject, it would be
better to continue to communicate with the Spanish Go-
vernment through the same channel.
Mr. HADLow suggested that a copy of the resolutions
and the memorial should be sent to the Spanish Embassy,
and another be transmitted to the Finance Minister, so
that if one should miscarry, the other might reach its
destination.

The resolutions were then put and carried unanimously.
Mr. WYLLIE said there was one thing which ought
.to be mentioned arising from the letter of M.
Zulueta. M. Zulueta had stated the ground of
his having given up his situation as Spanish Com-
missioner, and resigned the trust into the hands
of M. Murietta. Now, he might mention, as one
who knew the standing of that highly respectable Spanish
house, that M. Murietta was a partner in the firm of
Messrs. Solarte and Murietta, of No. 8, Old Jewry.
Both partners were highly respectable and honourable
men, and personally acquainted with Espartero and with
the Spanish Prime Minister. They were men of capital
and character, and although it was not possible anywhere
to select a man of more rectitude and honour than M.
Zulueta, yet M. Murietta was not inferior to him in
those honourable qualities : and he possessed such in-
fluence amengst Spaniards and others, that if he exerted
himself in the way he ought to do, and would do, he
considered M. Murietta as able, by puttieg his shoulder
spiritedly to the wheel, to give a very great impulse in-
deed to Spanish credit, and to hasten the day, which he
hoped was not very distant, when the Spanish Active
.Bonds would deserve their active character, and when
the holders of them would receive their full dividends.
He was quite certain that any gentleman who would read
carefully the Third Report of the Committee, and enter
into the figures, a great many of them given officially
by the Spanish Committees of Estimates themselves,
would feel with him, that if the present Government
were properly supported, the day was not far distant
when Spain would be in a position to pay the dividend
upon her whole debt.—(Cheers.)
The CHAIRMAN said he believed the business of the
meeting was now brought to a close.
Mr. TASKER proposed that the thanks of the meeting
should be given to the Chairman, for his efforts to forward
the interests of the Bondholders, and for his conduct in
the Chair.

Mr. WYLLIE seconded the motion, which was then put
and carried unanimously.
The CHAIRMAN begged to return his most cordial
thanks for the honour which had been conferred upon
him. He thought better prospects were dawning upon
Spanish affairs, and he sincerely hoped that they would be
rewarded for the pains which they had taken. They
had done nothing more than call upon a nation to
fulfil religious obligations ; and he was quite sure that
if they knew their own interests they would not he-
sitate for a moment to do justice to the Bondholders.
If his services could be available upon any occasion,
they should always be at the disposal of the Gentlemen
present.—(Cheers.)
The meeting then separated.
We were informed by Mr. Tasker that a very lengthy
correspondence had recently taken place between him
(Mr. Tasker) and the Spanish Minister, Surra y Hull,
which was highly interesting to the holders of Spanish
Bonds, and which can be inspected at the office of Mr.
Thornton, 9, Old Swan Wharf, London-bridge.

SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS

FROM THE EVENING PAPERS OF YESTERDAY.

GLOBE. —There are times at which the
shout arises (in the phrase of the proverb)—
" The cow hath run adry ; let us go milk the
bull." These are times of disappointed popular
expectations--of discredited philosophical prin-
ciples. A disposition arises to impute exist-
ing evils to remedies which have never
been tried, or at least, to impute impo-
tence to them, because they have proved barren
of practice. The popular mind then vacillates
between old-fashioned opiates, and the heroic
prescriptions of quacks. What, by common con-
sent, is thrown overboard is sober science and
common sense. The Laissez faire doctrines of
Turgot and Adam Smith are suffering this dis-
credit. In France and England the political eco-
nomy founded in the last century is undergoing
incessant attacks, partly from those who would
restore what it exploded, and partly from those
who say they would not do that, and do not
say what they would do. They are looking out
for a milch bull, and in the meanwhile clamour
at the cow's dryness. They may too rashly
presume on the lacteal temper of the desired
taurine substitute; and we shall not be surprised
if they bring the bull at last into the china-shop.
For our part, we say—get the cow out of the pound
—give her plenty of fodder—and then let us see.
The question of Laissez faire, or Not Laissez faire,
is one which cannot be answered by any general
formula of intervention or non-intervention.
Laissez faire, either to the fe wor the many,
may be leave to do mischief. The phrase, how-
ever, is as good as another to express the very real
distinction between those two classes of social
speculators, one of whom regard individual liberty
of action and competition as the most essential
condition of future as it has been of past im-
provements, and the removal of unnecessary re-
strictions on that agency as the first remedy to
be applied to the evils of our actual situa-
tion—the other of whom regard isolated
action and unrestrained competitiop as a main
source of social evils, and an anarchy calling
for some new guidance. For our own part we
are convinced that neither good governance
nor free action can be well dispensed with;
but we value the former as opening the widest
range for the latter. The Laissez faire prin-
ciple, as it is held by its rational advocates, does
not mean—Let some do that which shall hinder
others from freedom in their doings. Land-
owners make laws which aim to concentrate the
possession of landed property; to withdraw
it from the natural alterations of time and
commerce—to keep it in few and idle hands,
and give it an artificial value.
STAN DA RD.—The Opposition Journals make
the most of the unfavourable prospects of the
winter. This was to be expected, after the exhi-
bition of eager satisfaction with which every
menacing appearance of the weather was wel-
comed during the summer and autumn. What-
ever use our antagonists may make of such a visita-
tation as is so joyfully anticipated, it is our duty not
to allow their conduct to divert us from the right
path. We must meet the calamity, if it come,
with prudence and Christian humanity. As an
argument, however, against any system of per-
manent legislation, such a calamity is good
for. nothing—worse than good for nothing
in the case of laws which cause a greater
amount of food to be grown, not only in our
own island, but upon the whole produce of
Europe, than otherwise would be grown. The
effect of such a law can only be to mitigate the ill
effect of a bad harvest. We are told in a trium-
phant antithesis that the Corn-laws make food
dearer and labour cheaper. This is true occa-
sionally, but it is the reverse of true on the ave-
rage of years; and it never was further from
truth than at present. The Corn-laws temper the
prices of food and of labour, and, like all modi-
fications of temperance, they ensure a progres-
sive improvement, by restraining occasional ex-
cesses, always followed by more than corres-
ponding failure. When we speak of a law, we
speak of something of permanent and constant
operation, and we must judge of its wisdom or
folly, not by casualties, but by the tenor of its
usual results. Now, the results of the Corn-
laws have undoubtedly been to lower the prices
of food, and to raise the scale of wages,
measuring the rate of wages by the scale which
the means of subsistence afford. Accordingly we
have seen that commerce, agriculture, and popu-
lation have made an unexampled advance under
the more than 25 years of their operation. The
accidental inconvenience, arising from a particular
visitation, which is not, and cannot he, the effect
of those laws—which is the effect of causes above
human control—we repeat it, proves nothing.
As well tell us, that the British Constitution is
an evil, because it does not afford a perfect bar-
rier against national afflictions and the crimes of
individuals.

LLOYDS' SHIPPING.
VESSELS SPOKEN WlTll.—Wotten, of Brixham, for
Palermo, 17th ult., lat. 36, lon. 11 ; Ann, for Constan-
tinople, 3d inst., lat. 35, lon. 4, by the Alice, arrived in
the River. A barque, No. 9,814 (Marryatt's old code,
the William Ash), 13th inst. ; Whim, of Harwich, from
St. Domingo, 16th, lat. 48, lon. 6, by the Denia, arrived
in the River. Whim, St. Domingo to London, with loss
of mate, and crew all sick, except the Master and one
man, 11th inst. ; Sir Charles Napier, supposed from
Liverpool to New South Wales, with loss of fore-topmast
and jib-boom, 14th inst., 30 miles south of Scilly, by the
Mischief, arrived at Liverpool. Mary, London to Cal-
cutta, sth Aug. ; Columbia, Liverpool to Sydney, Ist
ult., by the Christian Agatha, arrived at Cowes. Sou-
venir, London to Quebec, 27th ult., off Cape Chat, by
'the Reaper, arrived at Poole. Adolphus Yates, for
Civitta Vecchia, 16th inst., lat. 48, by the James Dunn,
arrived at Falmouth. Cyrus, Thomson, 18th inst., lat.
48, lon. 6, by the Morgan, arrived- at Falmouth. Barque
Magnet, of and for Hull, 13th ult., 30 miles south-west
of Navarino, by the Saucy Jack, arrived in the Creek.
Rosalind, London to Mazatlan, 16th Aug., off Cape
Horn, by the Tuscan, arrived in the River. Elize, Bre-
men to Baltimore, ont 19 days, lat. 46, lon. 27, by the
Diana, arrived in the Downs.

The firm of Roughton and Co , at Lisbon, has
stopped payment.
The number of Exchequer Bills examined and
returned to the holders as genuine, up to Friday evening
last, was 31,134, and their value 18,769,900

LAW INTELLIGENCE.
COURT OF CHANCERY, Nov. 22.

The LORD CHANCELLOR was occupied the whole day
with causes, none of which possessed any point of inte-
rest, except to the parties concerned.

VICE CHANCELLORS' COURT, Nov. 22.

The cases of Goodchild v. the Greenwich Railway
Company, and Salisbury v. Morrice, occupied his Honour
the Vice• Chancellor of England the whole day. The
arguments in the latter case, which have already occu-
pied the Court several days, not being concluded, will be
resumed to-morrow (this day).
(Before Vice-Chancellor BRUCE.)
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)

. -
SMITH AND OTHERS V. SPENCER: '
Mr. SIMPKINSON and Mr. Ilrucoci appeared for the
plaintiffs, and contended that if they were not entitled to
an immediate decree in accordance with the prayer of the
bill, they had at least made out such a case of suspicion
of suppression of the alleged will as to form grounds of
inquiry into that question before the Master, and cited
several authorities to show that the Court had jurisdic-
tion in cases such as the present.
His HONOUR was by no means satisfied as to the Court
having jurisdiction in the present case.
Mr. WILCOCK submitted that though destruction of
the will, or spoliation by the defendant, was not proved
by the plaintiffs, yet that where there was strong ground
of suspicicion of such the Court had jurisdiction.
Mr. COOPER, for the defendant, rested his claim on a
subsequent will alleged to have been made by the testa-
trix in his favour, in January, 1837, by which all former
wills were revoked, and the estate beqfleathed by her to
the defendant. The merits of the defendant's case were
so strong, that Counsel disclaimed any desire of availing
himself of any technical objections that might exist as to
the jurisdiction of the Court. His object would be to
show what was the issue raised by the will ; what the
issue tendered by the answer ; and what the evidence
brought forward.

His Hoxoura said, that the only question in the case,
as it seemed to him, was, whether there was prima facie
evidence of the possession and custody of the first will,
so as to entitle the plaintiffs to an inquiry, or whether
the bill should be dismissed. Any question, however,
involved in the case could not in his opinion be affected
by any evidence with respect to the will of 1837.
Mr. COOPER then at some length addressed himself to
the Court, to show that the plaintiffs had not made out
grounds for an inquiry.
Mr. PicHNER followed on the same side.
His HONOUR, in giving judgment, said that the plain-
tiffs had not established a case of spoliation or suppres-
sion of the will:against the defendant, and the question was,
whether the circumstances of thecase were not such as to
call upon the Court to direct an inquiry into the matter.
On that point his Honour had some hesitation; but after
hearing all the arguments and evidence, he had come to the
conclusion that the bill ought not to be dismissed. The
first issue which he would suggest, therefore, would be
—not an issue containing a proposition of fraud, as was
the case in the issue of Barker and Ray, cited in the
course of Counsel's argument, but simply an issue
whether, by the will of 1835, duly executed and attested,
so as to pass freehold estates, Mrs. Carter did devise
her real estate in the manner alleged ; and supposing
the Jury to find that a devise was made, he would pro-
pose an issue devisavit vel non upon the will of January,
1837, with the usual directions.

Mr. COOPER observed, that his client was but an agent,
and could not state positively whether the will of 1835
would be admitted, but was strongly inclined to think
that it would.

His HONOUR said, that in that case he would merely
direct an issue devisavit vel non upon the will of 1837.
Mr. COOPER then stated that by Thursday next he
would be able to inform the Court whether the will of
1835 would be admitted, and that was accordingly fixed
with his Honour's permission for mentioning the point.
Several other causes were called on, but the parties
not being ready, the Court rose at half-past two o'clock.

COURT OF QUEEN'S BENCH, Nov. 22.
EX PARTE THE COMMISSIONERS OF SEWERS.

In this case a rule for a certiorari had been obtained a
few days ago by Mr. Hoggins to remove a presentment,
and certain proceedings therein, made by the Commis-
sioners of Sewers for the Metropolitan districts, into that
Court, for the purpose of traversing it.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL now moved a rule to show
cause why the rule for the certiorari should not be
quashed. His object in making the present motion was
in order that the party might proceed in the regular
course: It appeared that Mr. Jenkins was the proprietor
of certain land at Paddington, and allowed cottages to be
built thereon. An application was subsequently made
to him to construct certain drains, which he had made
accordingly, and which communicated with the public
sewer. The Commissioners did not object to these
drains ;_ they only required that they should be con-
structed in a certain way, so as not to operate preju-
dicially to the drainage of the district. That not having
been done, they were removed, and again put up by Jen-
kins, but in such a way as to act as a nuisance. A pre-
sentment was accordingly made against Jenkins, and the
Jury found the presentment, and fixed a fine of 250/.
upon him. Now in all cases in which these presentments
were removed by certiorari, for the purpose of being tra-
versed, it was ruled that the certiorari should not issue
in the first instance, but only a rule nisi, and that notice
should be previously given to the Commissioners, which
had not been done. Under these circumstances he con-
tended that he was entitled to the rule prayed for.
The COURT suggested that the Learned Counsel should
communicate with Mr. Hoggins, who perhaps would
be satisfied with a rule to show cause in the first instance.