The Sun.
London, England, 1847-06-11 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF LORDS, June 10.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY took his seat upon the
Woolsack at Five o'clock.

DIOCESE OF KILDARE.
The Archbishop of DUBLIN presented a petition
from the Protestant Association of Bath for the restora-
tion of the diocese of Kildare.
REPRESENTATIVE PEERS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
On the motion of the Earl of EGLINTON this
Bill was read a third time.
INFLUX OF IRISH PAUPERS INTO LIVER-
POOL, &c.
Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from Swan-
sea, praying that all national education should be based
upon secular principles; also a petition from Liverpool,
complaining of the influx of Irish paupers into
that town. Already, the petition stated, had
several of the inhabitants of Liverpool, includ-
ing six captains of Irish steam -vessels, fallen
victims to the fever these paupers had imported into the
town, and the petitioners prayed that some measures
should be adopted by the Legislature to prevent Ireland
from emptying her diseased, infirm, and starving popu-
lation into the town.
AFFAIRS OF PORTUGAL.
Lord BROUGHAM complained that certain papers
connected with the affairs of Portugal had been published
in the newspapers before they were laid upon the table
of the House, and gave notice that on Tuesday he should
submit a proposition to their Lordships on the subject.
POOR REMOVAL ACT.
Lord REDESDALE presented a petition from the
county of Oxford complaining of the operation of the
Poor Removal Act.
Several Bills were brought up from the House of
Commons, and read a first time.
QUAKERS MARRIAGES.
Lord CAMPBELL rose to move the second reading
of a Bill for declaring certain marriages between Quakers
valid. It was a Bill to confirm Lord Cotten ham's Bill. An
Act had been passed in 1826, to render the marriages
of Quakers valid, but great doubts had been raised re-
specting their validity. and in Scotland they had been
declared to be untenable, and this Bill was to remove all
doubts respecting them, as great distress had been ex-
perienced in consequence of the decisions of the courts
of law.
The Bill was read a second time without a division.
RETURNS FROM THE POST-OFFICE.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said that the last
returns from the Post office were not satisfactory, and
therefore he wished to obtain further details.—They
were granted.

REWARDS TO THE NAVY.
The Earl of HARDWICICE gave notice that he
should postpone his motion on this subject from to-day
till Monday next:._

LOANS TO IRELAND.
Earl FITZ WILLIAM mov. d for a return of the
loans made to Ireland for the relief of distress during the
past and present sessions; also the sum which might be
expected to be repaid. The papers had bcen already
laid before the other House of Parliament, so that thry
could be easily supplied to that House. He thought the
public of this country would be surprised when they were
informed of the gross amount which had been lent for this
purpose. The people of this country had been taught by
the press to believe that the amount was much greater
than it was, but it would be found, he understood, that
the total amount was between 6,000,0001. and 7,000,0001.,
which had been lent upon good interest.
The motion was agreed to.
SCOTCH BILLS.
The following Scotch Bills passed through Com-
mittee:—
Service of Heirs.
Transference of Lands.
Burgage Tenure.
Heritable Securities for Debts.
Crown Debtors.

MESSAGE FROM THE COMMONS.
Messengers from the Commons brought up seven:
Bills.

BISHOPRIC OF MANCHESTER BILL.
Lord LANSDO WNE rose to move the order of lhe
day for the second reading of the Manchester Bishopric
Bill ; and he would take that opportunity of stating, his
regret that a jocular observation which was made the
other night, and which was not intended to have
been heard, should have been published, and
thus making the business of their Lordships' House
appear to be conducted more irregularly than it really
was. It was necessary from the great and spreading
population of Manchester to establish a spiritual head in
that town, and there was fortunately the means for
the providing of a bishopric out of the paro-
chial funds, which had increased to a very great degree.
These were the leading provisions of this Bid. The
diocese would embrace a population of 1,123,000 per-
sons, and 1,220 square miles. He had stated that the
funds were already provided for supporting the bishopric,
and therefore the country would be put to no expense
whatever by the establishment of this diocese. He did
not know that there were any further details for him to
remark upon, and he had only, in conclusion, to move
that the Bill be now read a second time.
Lord MONTEAGLE was quite sure the Bill would
be agreed to if it were notcalculated to involve the
country in any expense ; hut, under existing cir-
cumstances, their Lordships had long felt
and admitted the necessity of this measure.
If he understood the statements right, it was asserted
that there was a surplus in the fund of the Ecclesiastical
Commissioners, and that it was not contemplated to call
for supplies from any other quarter. It should be
recollected that this idea first arose from the Government
of Sir Robert Peel in 1835 ; and the Commison
then in existence had recommended that there should
be a consolidation of two of the Welsh bishoprics
as well as as a consolidation of the sees of Gloucester
and Bristol. Through these consolidations it was stated
that the means would be raised for erecting a see of
Manchester. But this question had excited great
attention out of doors, and it was doubted
that the Legislature had any right to in-
terfere at all with the principle which would be
invaded by interfering with these bishoprics. A petition,
numerously and importantly signed, was presented
by his Noble Friend (Lord Brougham)—and he did not
complain of any want of consistency in the conduct of
his Noble Friend. But it should be recollected that
the first object of the Commission of Inquiry
issued by Sir Robert Peel's Government was to
make a better provision for the parochial clergy
of North Wales. Of that commission the two Arch-
bishops, the Bishop of Lincoln, and the Bishop of
Gloucester were members, and those Commissioners
came to the conclusion that there was not
a sufficient fund to provide for these paro-
chial clergy. But it was afterwards found
that the proceeds to be obtained from the consolidation
of the two Welsh bishoprics were not only sufficient for
the addition to the iccoines of the parochial clergy, but
that there would be funds to make a provision
for the new see of Manchester. But in the
report of the second Commission it was worthy of
observation that no notice whatever was taken of the
wants of the parochial clergy of North Wales. Seeing
the mischief that was likely to arise from the consolida-
tion of the two bishoprics, he had called their Lordships'
attention to the subject, indeed he had laid a Bill upon
their table. But the Bill contained a new and most im-
portant provision—it was the first time they had been
called upon to appoint four new bishoprics, the repre-
sentatives of which were not to be permitted to have
seats in that House; and besides their appointment was
not recommended by the Ecclesiastical Commissioners
as in all former cases. They were demanded by the
people, and though they were not immediately to have
seats they were subsequently to be entitled to the n.
When he looked at the great increase of the population,
especially in towns, and the necessity of instructing
them, he could not but bring himself to believe that the
parochial clergy were unable, in some parts of the
country, to provide for this necessity. In North Wales
the inadequacy of church instruction had been felt more
than in any other part of the country ; so de-
fective had it proved, notwithstanding the appoint-
ment of two Welsh bishops, that the num-
ber of Dissenters actually exceeded the number
of that belonging to the Church, so that the progress of
dissent had been more rapid than the doctrines of the
Church of England ; and this was a state of things
which they were about to perpetuate by the Bill before
them, and he considered that they should increase the
clergy rather than the Bishop=. He considered that the
principle of creating bishoprics without seats, was mes
objectionable.

Lord STANLEY admitted all that had been said by
the Noble Marquis as to the impossibility of the present
Right Rev. Prelate the Bishop of Chester attending to
the spiritual wants of his extensive diocese in the way it
ought to bo done. He rejoiced, therefore, that the pre-
sent measure was introduced, although he considered
that some of its principles were objectionable. The ob-
jection which he took to the principle of this Bill was the
establishment of a bishopric without the aovautage of a
seat in that Efouse. The Noble Marquis who introduced
this Bill had stated that the Ecclesiastical Commissioners
had recommended that in the establishment of
new bishoprics, an arrangement should be made to
prevent the erection of new seats in that House, except
in one instance. Now he thought it was highly desir-
able that the public should know what was the number
of sees to be established which should have seats in that
House attached to them. It was evident that her Ma-
jesty's Government intended to make a considerable in-
crease to the sees of this country, without, however,
appointing them to seats in their L irdships' House ;
but, in his opinion, it would be much more satisfactory
to make the number smaller and affix seats to each of
them. If the principle to be established by this Bill
were the creation of four-and-twenty sees with seats in
that House according to the seniority of the Bishop, and
four-and-twenty without seats, it would often happen
that the most talented Bishops would be altogether ex-
cluded from their Lordships' House ; and he therefore
thought it would be undoubtedly more satisfactory to
reduce the number and give them all seats. Adopt
the principle of this Bill, however, and they might
go on establishing these new bishoprics without seats,
until the number of sees reach 48, excluding, perhaps,
the most able and efficient of the Episcopal Bench from
participating in the ecclesiastical government of the
country; and as such a step must of necessity be pro-
ductive of jealousies and dissatisfaction amongst the
clergy, he must repeat his conviction that it would be
far better to reduce the number, and give to each of them
equal rights and privileges. It was not his intention,
nevertheless, to offer any opposition to this Bill, but in
pursuing that course, he must earnestly entreat her Ma-
jesty's Government not to mislead the public, or to keep
them in suspense by withholding from them the precise
number, and the precise principles upon which they pro-
posed hereafter to establish the new bishoprics.
Lord BROUGHAM must also object to the anomaly
of Government establishing one single bishopric in this
country without the advantage of a seat in that House.
It was a dangerous principle, and in refraining from
Opposing 1$ 110 r, he wished 1$ $9 be undorBt994 thot ho