The Sun.
London, England, 1812-04-29 00:00:00

'COLD COIN BILL.

The order for the ,second reading. of ihiA Bi
being moved,

ETrl BATH URST rose, and in an able and elaborate
speech of some length, in which he displayed the
'greatest information on the general subjeti to w hien
the Bill referred, evinced the policy and necessity of
their Lordships concurring in the measure then un-
der consideration ; and more especially demon-
strafed the non-depreciation of the paper currency.
The Noble Earl concluded by moving the second
reading of the Bill.

Lord KING strongly opposed the measure: one
of his leading objections to"which was, that it %tent
effeetually to constitute Bank notes a legal tender,
ar►d this important consideration the Noble Earl
Mid thought proiier to overlook to the course of his
speech.

Earl STANHOPE supported the Bill, and re-urged
his former forcible and most convincing arguments
upon the subject.
The Eatls of DARNLEY and LAUDERDALE, the
'alter at great length, opposed the measure.
Lord GRENVILLE opposed the. Bill. He com-
pared the present proceedings of Government Ao
those of the French with respect to the assignats.—
The Noble Lord dwelt at cdnsiderable length on
the evils which the people experienced by the depre-
ciation of paper, which depreciation he attributed to
an over issue on the part of the Bank.

Lord LivEßroot. contended that the existing cir-
cumstances of the country were to be ascribed to
natural and simple causes, viz. the great foreign ex-
penditure, and the considerable increase in the im-
portation of grain. The 'argument of the Noble
Baron who preceded him, was directed rather against
the original measure of the suspension of cash pay.
merits, than against the present Bill, the object of
which was to prevent the occurrence of injustice and
oppression. Adverting to the supposition that there
were two prices in the market, a cash price and a
pia tr price, he denied the fact. On this point he
was ready to meet the Noble Lords, guarding h m-
self at the same time from the inference of maintain-
ing that there rhight not have been a solitary in-
stance or two of the existence of two prices. All he
contended for was, that it was not a general prac-

ice.

The Bill was then read a second time, and order-
ed to be commitied on Friday.
- Lord LAUDLRDALE gave notice, that before .the
House went into the Committee on Friday, he
would move an inquiry into the nature ,of the
connection of tire-Bank of England - with Govern-
Tent.

AMERICAN GOVERNMENT.
Lord .HOLLAND, adverting to the conversation
which had taken place early in the evening, ob-
served, that he had since read the documents to
which he. had then alluded. If they were accurate
as published, he must consider them as affording a
most'proper ground for Parliamentary inquiry. It
it should appear that Mr. Henry had been autho-
rised to stir up the inhabitants of
.the Eastern States
to rebellion and separation from the Western, such
an acts on the part of one friendly power to another,
could not be too severely censured or stigmatised.
And whatever might be the sentiments of the Noble
Earl, he was persuaded that he should have . the
concurrence in this opinion of the Noble Viscount
who had lately acceded to his Majesty's Govern-
ment, and who had, at the commencement of the
present unfortunate war, reprobated what he con-
ceived-to have been a similar attempt, as instanced
in the case of the French Consul at Dublin. He
did not wish to take the business out of the hands
of the Noble Earl if he chose to bring it forward,
but he was desirous to know., whether, it was the
Noble Earl's intention himself to lay 'on the table
the‘Documents alluded to?
Lord LtVERPoOL replied, that he did not think it
p;ce.ssary to, say any mute at present, than that

when the at air came to be inquired into, it would
be tout,6l not to bear the construction :et upon it by
the Noble Lord.

Lord HOL.LANIi, observing that the. Noble Earl
had refrained from answering his question, gave.
notice, that on Friday he would move for the pro,
duct lon of•the Documents. -

Adjourned at One o'Clock this niorning.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

TUESDAY, APRIL 28.

Mr. DICKENSON presented a Petitien from the
Woollen Msanulattorers of the -County of Somer,
Set, against the Orders in- Council. Ordered to.-lta
on the table.
WESTERN' presented a Petition from certain
Freeholders and others of the County of Essex,
praying 'for a Reform in the Representation. Or.'
dered to lie on the table.
Mr. LITCHFIELD, from the Privy Council, pre,.
sented Copies of the Memorials of captaiu King
to the Privy Council, and the Reports' of the ha/
Officers of the Crown thereon. Ordered to LW
printed.
Mr. DICKENSON obtained leave to bring iron -Bill
to enable Magistrates to repair Bridges without
Grand Jury presentments.
The Holt and Woolmer Forest Bills went through
Committees, the. Reports of which were ordered to
be received to-morrow.
The further consideration of the Report of the
Securities Bill was posiponedruntil Frichy."
The !Irish Partnerships Bill went through a Corn-
mittee, the Report of which was ordered to be re- '
ceived to-morrow. •
Mr. LUSHINGTON brollght up the Report of the_
Committee of Supply, which was agreed to. Ells
were ordered to be brought in, in pursuance of the
various. Resolutions.
A :copy Of the Charter of the
.Corporation of
Cursitors was ordered to be laid before the House.
On the Motion of -Mr. Rosa, it was ordered
that the House should to-morrow resolve itself imo
"a Cormitittee, to consider of the duties ou copper
imported into Great Britain.
Mr. Ross obtained leave to bring in a Bill for
the More easy manning of vessels employed in the
Southern W•liale fishery. •
The Tobacco-pipe. Clay Bill was read a second
time, and ordered to be cornmitted to-morrow.
On the motion of Mr. Rose, an account was or-
dered to be laid before the 'House of the real value
of goods exported, from 1805 to 181 t,
inclu-
sive ; and an Account of the quantity of tonnage of
vessels employed since 1806.
The above Accounts were immediately presentod•
by the proper Officers.
Mr. LITTLETON presented a Petition from 40U
Inhabitants of Kidderminster and the neighbour-
hood, against the Orders in Council, and the Ea.t
India Monopoly, He would mot conceal from the
House that a Protest bad been also forwarded lo .
him,. signed by several respectable iiidivi,4l ilst, at-
'though they bore. but a small prOPorrion to (I;e
number by which the original p,iitior 'w,l4 sgni-.:(1
.
The Petition was ordered to lie oit the tabfe.-
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEEitER gate tlo'
lice, than he would to-rnuirow [hove to' ifave.to
bring in a Bill to regulate, with a view to repress;
the circulation of Local Silver Tokens.

A Message from the Lords announced their L.ord•

ships' assent to a prodigioqs number of Private
Bills.

Sit I. NEWPORT gave notice, that on this ddy
fortnight he would submit to the House a MOULAI
respecting khe management of the Funds for•lnland
Navigation in Ireland since the Union.
The Committee on the Irish Populaticin Bill was
postponed from Friday to Monday.

ORDEIts IN COUNCIL.
• Lord STANLEY, in rising to in.rke his promised
Motion," relative to the various Petitions against the
Orders -in Council, apologized for his inadennaey
the undertaking, and stated that he should convi-
der himself presumptuous it he were to trouble the
House at any considerable length, after the subject
had been so recently and so ably- discussed by an
Honourable and Learned Friend of his. He de-
scribed the-original proceect,ipg of France, in 180.5
(the Berlin and Milan Decree), as a municipal le-
. gulation, which, however prompted by inveteracy
towards the commerce of this country, was by 00
means novel in its nature.; similar measures having
been- remitted to by the French in the years tr3g
and 1756. The measures, however; of 1739 and
1756 had been comAletely impotent in their effect
on British Commerce; and, in his opinion, there,
had been no • reason to expect that -the Decree of
1 800 would have had a more extensive operation
upon it. At any rate ;Leonid not have affected our:
commerce with neutral nations. Our trade with
America remained untouched by, it, until the pro-
-Mulgation of' our own Orders in Council, which
occasioned the shutting of -the American ports; and
our total exclusion from the means Which, though
circuitous, were still advantageous for conveying our
produce and manutadures into theCsnitinental States.
The distresses that at present existed Country no one
could deny, whatever difference of opinion might
exist with resped to the cause. The irtitions
rhC t4hle sufficiently testified this melancholy fait.•
Some of the_ petitioners thought that their distres4
might be relieved by.the abolition of sinecures.. H-
confessed that he did not look for any important
advantage from such a measure.. /Others prayed tor.
an extension of commerce to every part 1)1 the East.
Indies. Were this to take place, by the destruction
of the East Indian monopoly, the bench s could not
be operative in h-ss than two years ; and the dis-
tresses of the country were too pressing to admit of
such a delay. Another of the petitions complaine2
of the insensibility which the petitioners declared a
Right Honourable Gentleman had shewn to, their
grievances. Without attributing any want of feeling
to that Right Honourable Gentleman,he must think
that, as theconfidential adviser of the first Minister,.
and as himself holding suclra responsible ituoiou
in the State, the Right Honourable Gentleman ought
to be cautious not-to use language calculated by its
levity to aggravate serious and real distress,. A gieat
body of petitioners stated their firm opinion, that
the Orders in Council were the chef causes of. tire
evils under which-they laboure!. He prekuit.ed t hat
it was, by way of .arisWers to these Ilst -mentioned
,petitioners, that a late declaration of the British 'Go,
vernment had been issued, proceeding on a state!.
tnent of a speech
.wade-by a Minister of France to
the Consionatire Senate. Tirat declaration contain,

in substance, though. not in words, the tthipari-
',son-made by the Right Honourable Gentleman of
the
state of the two countries, to that of two men
*llO bad their-heads in a bucket of water. It ap-
peared by it to be the determination of Government
not to relieve the petidoners on account of the idle
Punctilio, with respect to which should be the first
Power to withdraw its commercial edicts. He con-
,: fessed that he had not expected such a declaration in
The present state of the country. He had made it
distresses
his object to inquire into the reality of the alleged
uistressee, and be had found it but too well esta-
blished in fact. From every quarter the accounts
toecnrred in-representing the employment of the
Poor to be scanty, and the price of the necessaries of
life to be most enormous. The toed of the manu-
facturers in that part of the kingdom which he had
the honour to represent, was chiefly eotatoes and
oatmeal : two hundred and betty pounds weight of
• Potatoes could until lately be purchased for seven
shillings ; they were now advanced to seventeen
shillings. The s Fine quantity of oatmeal could until
litely be purchased for, forty-two shillings; it was
'now advanced to 675. The average wages of a
Manufacturer were from nine to • eleven shillings a
Week ; and how, out of that suni, an individual
Could support and clothe himself and family, he was
at a loss to conceive. The Noble Lord proceeded
, to read extracts of letters which he had received from
Rochdale, Bolton, concurring in their state-
• Illents of the existit.g distresses in those districts;
although it was observed that in. the neighbourhood
of the last mentioned place, there was rather more
employineet than (here had been. The trade of
Liverpool also he represented as being in a state of
great stagnation, and alter a comparison of the for-
. bier with the present commerce of hat port, cow-
Poled that from a half to a third of those who were
formerly engaged in it, were now idle. Under all.
• these circumstances, he thought-the House had but
°he line of conduct to adopt, namely, to agree to the
•motion with which he should conclude his speech.
It, on a full•investigation of the subject, Parliament
!hould think it right to recommend to the Prince
•It"gent the repeal of the Orders in council, lie should
feei vry prd having been the tneans f iducn
neme to doh of
o. It should, unfortunato elyn faili ig n
ht; efforts, it would be sotue censulation to him to
reflect that he had done his duty to his constituents.
He hoped they would bow to the decision of the
douse as reseectfully as he should. He trusted
there Would be no r. petition at those disturbances,
"hich he deprecated as warmly as any man. At the
'same time he contessedahe thoeght that there was a
great deal to b overlooked and pardoned in the
ttooduct of those who had been impelled by the
Pressure of distress into acts certainly of themselves
• of the mot Unjustifiable nature. The Noble Lord
ouclucied by moviug, that the petitions from Livers.
!of)), Birmingham, and other places, against the Or-
ders in Council be referred to a Committee of the
Whole House.
Alr. Nos expressed his satisfaction that the time
• cone when tLe subject could be fully discussed.
''-'4Olll what had.fallen from the Noble Lord, ;it op-
Pealed th it he was wholly unacquainted with the
Teal nature of the Berlin Decree. The Noble Lord
e
described it merely as a municipal regulation,
'stud that of a nature by no Means novel. In May,
consequence of prior efforts of France
- to distress British commerce, the lute • Goveru-
inent of this country issued orders to blockade
411 the ports trona Blest to the river Elbe. In
the Wisdom and jus-ice of this order he perfect-
,;.Y cencuried. At that period we had a naval pow-
trsufficient to-enforce the blockade, and it was con,
*Rent with the Law of Nations to do so. The coos
rsquence was, however, the promulgation of the
• erlin Decree. This decree denied our right to
lake merchant ships at sea,, who Were endeavouring
to viatte the blockade. Was that not novel ? It
declared that a blockade could extend only to feirtie
Places, atitually besieged. Was that not.novel Mt
oeclared the Britisu Islands to be in a state of block-
4de, prohibited. all Contioental intercourse with
them, proclaimed all British subjeCts, w herever
40Und, to be prisoners of war, and what was more
fextraordinary, 'all British merchandize, wherever
'`lLltid, to be forfeited. Was all this not novel ?
was i! a municipal regulation ? Nothing could be
tore unlike any former proceeding. He hart often
that
told that the Berlin Decree was nugatory, and
toat our ships had traded after its promulgation as
tointerruptedly as before it, ,He readily admitted,
• that from the time of its promulgation, in Novem-
4er, 1806, until after the peace of Tilsit, in July,
,1807, the Berlin Decree did actually remain a dead
letter; because, during that time,. the enemy had
themeans of enforcing it, Bat the moment that
,peace of Tilsit placed his at my at the disposal of
the French Emperor, he marched troops into all the
ports, for tire purpose of cariying the Berlin Decree
Into effect. This aaite o, elation of the Decree
commenced in August, 1807, and it was well known
that two months afterwards no less than- 65 British
e•
ssels returned, heavily laden, from Heligoland,
baying been unable to get rid of their. cargoes. In
Consequence of this, the Order in Council "of 1807
Was issued,"and this was followed in the succeeding
Thonth by the Milan Decree, which enacted that a
neutral of any nation, having touched at, an English
tort, should for that act be denationalized. • These
uere the two Decrees which the Noble Lord had
t,llaraatetised as having nothing new in them, no-
'oat had not been common in former ,Wars/ In
April, 1809, the Orders in Council of 1807 were so

Inodified as to confine the prohibition which they
Were issued to announce, to Franceiand the countries
linmediately under her domination. This was fol-
-I°vved by the Decree of Rambouillet. On this oc-
casion in answer to a communication from the Ame-
rican Minister, it had been stated by the Duke de
Cadore, " that the Imperial Decrees were confer-
triable to the eternal principles of justice;" and on
the complaint of General Armstrong that 1.00 Ame-
rican ships hid been seized, without any notice be-
. ing previously given of their danger, he Was told that
the conduct cf &gland had been such that it could
only be regarded as a declaration of. war against
-America, and that war was accordingly considered a
declared between England and America from the
day on which the English Order in Council was is-
sued. He wished the conduct of France towards
America to be compared .with that of England.---.
'ere, when a number of American vessels were
bsoughr in, to-save the expenses and delays attend=
ant on the ordinal), process, a'commission bad been
minediately appointed to investigate the losses SUS-
144ieci by America, in consequence of wbieb,

nO less h ttum than. I,4oo,oiitett had e'eti paid to:
Americans. The last proceeding, on the part of
Frande, was that of issuing a-Seeatus Consultum, in
which it was declared, that till the British Orders in
Council were rescinded, and the principles of the
Treaty of -Utrecht in full force, every Neutral ves-,
sel, touching at any British Port, would be con-
sidered as denationalised, and the Berlin and M lan
Decrees enforced accordingly. Much had been heard
in that House of the Berlin and Milan Decrees hav-
ing been actually repealed. r He (Mr. Rose) had on
former occasions stated cases of vessels being cap-
tured, which he conceived justified him in coming
to a different conclusion ; 'but now they had a po-
sitive authentic instrument to refer to, Which con-
firmed those Decrees, and which declared all na-
tions to be denationalised who suffered their mer-
chant ships to be searched. The right of searching
merchant vessels had never before been questioned.
The late Declaration of the English. Government,
which the Noble Load appeared to view with much
dissatisfatlion, as he thought the *rescinding of the
Berlin and Milan Decrees ought not to be the mea-
sure,on which the resumption of our commerce
with America.should depend, appeared to him lo be
such that nothing could be more satisfactory, as it
declared oire-Orders its Council to be repealed when
ever the Decrees of France should cease, and re-
pealed retrospetativele, so as to have effect from the
very day on which thostemeasures were actually at
an end. Having thus shewn what were really the
proceedings of England, he came to consider what
would be the effect, of. the repeal of our Orders in,
Council. Would any man say, that .if repealed to
America would open her ports to us ?
Th it it, was certain si.e would do so, he'denied, as
she had repeatedly t, Id England that that alone
would not satisfy her, as she required that we
should give up out present system of blockade.--
Why then we were to purchase our intercourse with .
America by giving up our. mariiime rights. These,
he contended, by complying with her wishes, would
he given up, and given up for, at best, but a pre-
carious advantage.• From the moment ar which
these were given up we should suffer most severely
in our trade: The instant tfese Orders in Council,
were repealed, the ports of almost all- the world
would be thrown open to France, to furnish her
with raw materials necessary to the carrying on het
manufactures. America would have the carrying
trade; and thus the cortnnodit'.n of France would
be conseted to South America, the Brazils, and to
the whole Comment of Europe. Thai the commo.-
dines of Birtrungham, and other manufacturing
towns, would fine an immediate vent and a cenii-
del able market, he did not deny, but it was necessary
to consider w hat would be the consequence to our '
trade' in other respects;—what effect it would
have ultimately on our trade to other parts.— '
The Cade at, present carried on with the North of
Europe, amountee\ in the last year to 18,500,0001.
being k,0p0,0001. more than its amount in 1806,
and he had the satisfaction to state, that within the
last eight weeks it had been increasing 100,0001..
per week on what it was at the corresponding pe-
riod in the last year. Was this then the time at
which we' should risk the whole, of this trade ?
The exports to America had ton merly amounted to
about 12 millions annually. Of this about half
had been carried on on account of foreign colonial
aettletnents. Toe fair coosumption of America
might then oe taken to have been six millions. Itr
the last year our exports to America were 2
In 1805, their amount was 11,500,0001. In 1806,
and 1807, 12 millions. In 1808, they fell to five
trrillions three hundred thousand pounds, and his
(Mr. Rose's) opinion had bets, that as the trade
fell off with the United States, it would in-
crease with other parts of AmeriCa ; and this opi-
nion had been borne out for three years, as the ex-
ports 19 other parts had increased from t i ,000,000 f..
to 18,000,0001. in 1808, In 1309 they were nearly
the same; and in 18 10,1 hey amounted t0t7,000,0001.
In 'the last year (1811), they had however again
fallen to 11,803,0001. the exports to the Untied
'States being but 2,000,0001. If wee could get over
the great stumbling block, the Orders in 'Council,
and the trade_ of America were again open to us, -all
we ought to expect was, that our exports to the
United Sates would be rased front 2,000,0001. to
0,000,0001, annually. If, hoe ever, we suffered a
loss of 4,000,0001. from the want of an open trade.
to America, what did America stiffer herself ?--
From a paper which had .b en presented be-
fore Congress,. it appeared that her anneal ex-
ports Amounted to about 45,000,000 of dollars.—.
Of these 3,000,000 were to Prussia, 20,000,000 to
England, eighteen mil.ilons, to Spain and Portugal,
1,190,000 to France, and to all other parts of the .
World bet wen 2 and 3 thousand..
_Compare the ins-
portance of her customers. To France her exports
were under. 2,006,000, to England and her allies
38,000,000 out of 45,00,0,000, the total amount
of her exports. This was the state of American
commerce, and if the measures which she had
thought proper
,to adopt were injurious to us, what
were they less. drab . ruinous to her ? The Right
Hon. Gentleman proceeded to reply to the Observa-
tions made on out' Ships having been forced out, of
the carrying trade, to the great encouragement of
foreign shipping. WhTfeon this subject, he proVed
that the English ships ernplojed in trade exceed.:d
the number so employed in 1806, as, in 1811 their
number was 12,774, while in 1800, it wan 12,239.
In the last year he admitted there was a falling off
of 300, but half the number of foreign ships em-
ployed are fallen off within. the same time ; so
that, while half the foreign ships were thrown
out
,of employ, the number of English ships
gaged in ttade, was greater than it was in faoG.— -
To repeal the Orders in Council would, he was con;:
fident, injure the West India, interest, as the con-
sequence would be, the sugars of the Brazils and.of
the Havannab would be biought to the continent
of Europe ; and though certain districts might be
relieved by the tepee' of the Orders in Council, he
thought it would be injurious to the interests of the
nation at large. He then defended the' policy of
the License System at some length. These Licenses
had been spokeu ' of as if they were new in their
nature, though such had been granted in many for-
rater wars. Under the state of things which had
been spoken of as so deploreb.e fur this country, he
had the satisfaction to state, that since April last
notwithstanding all the French EmperOr had done
with a view to injure us, the exchanges had risen in
our favour 15a Whit Harnhurgh,9/ with Amsterdam, •
and 12 per cent. with Paris. The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman 'next Vindicated himself from tl change

which had been nrdcagainst hitt, or loving treated
the deputation from Birmingham with any thing
like levity. He had been 30 years in the public
service, but had never had such an imputation
. throw n out against him before. He was almost the
last man in the world who could be guilty of treat-
ing the distresses of others with levity. In- proof
of this be begged to offer as evidence certain let-
ters, which he had received from the journeymen
weavers, and other journeymen manufacturers; ex-
pressing their gratitude •for his condnet tOWaeds'
them. [Part of these letters • he here read.] He
begged pardon for thus intruding on. the House,
which he would not have done, but (he declared to
God) that nothingshort of an accusation'of having•
committed some-horrid crime, could have hart his
feelings more than such a charge. He concluded la-
menting that the people had beenied to believe, that
all their distresses grew out of the Orders in .Coun-
cil, and that those repealed all would be well'. He
should much deplore their repeal, if such an event-
were to take place; but thinking some ineptly de-
sirable in satisfy the public, of their necessity and
utility, he should not object to the motion, of the
Noble Lord:
Sir C. MORDAUNT made a short statement con-
nected with the subject, which was not distinctly
heard in the gallery.
Mr.. DUGDALE, said, the Right Hon. Gent. (Mr.
Rose) had used words when he saw the deputation
•something like what had been repeated, but he de-
nied that he Wad treated them with any thing like
levity or disrespect.
Mr. A. BARING could hardly be induced to be-
lieve, on any evidence, that the Right Honourable
Gentleman (Mr. Rose) would neat with levity or
disrespe& such respeetaele persons as composed the
deputation from Bitininghatn. On the subject of
the Orders in Council, he contended that it was to
be inferrechirom the papers published" by the Ame-
rican Government, that if they, ,were.rescinded the.
Non•lntercourse Ad would be repealed without any
regard to the question of blockade. It was very de-
sirable to ascereain if she hostility imputed to the
American Government agaiust this country aetually
existed. He would contend that at the time the
American Government assumed thatthe-Decrees of
Berlin 'and Minn were repealed, they had fair
.grounds to believe that they really were so, as it had
been formally communicated to.t hem by Franceehat
-they had ceased to be 'in force. But then it was
,Said, what credit were such communications from .
the French Government entitled to? Was this the
language which America could hold to airiendly
Goveinment, or to a dovernment With whom. she
-had those relations which had existed between her
and France? It was formally announced to Ame-
rica that those Decrees were conditionally repealed.
One of the conditions was, that England should re-
peal her Orders of Council. This America believed
would be immediately dooe.on its being known that
the Decrees of France were repealed.. There was
another condition also, intimating that :France was
not to be expected by America to mate any altera-
[ion in het laws at- home.. • England contendd that
things shall be restored to that state in which they
were before those Decrees were issued, that is, we
required an alteration of the municipal la A's of France
with respetteo -the admission of English commerce
into places under her influence. To this requisition
on our part, America answered, we have nothing
to do, as a third Power, with questions wholly at-
fect4rig the .W Belli s. He knew of no re-
cent condemnatiOn of American..property uneer the
Berlin and Milan Decrees, tlrough Ire knew that
vessels had been carried into France. Upon the
view of the whole of the circumstances, he could '
not see-that grass partiality for France, arid that
,hostility to Eeglaud Al4ll had been so often -im-
puted to the American Government. The great
question conneeted with the Orders in Council was,
what good do we t'erive from them ourselves ? If
the country were in a Siete ut prosperity, it might
be very well to say, let us persevere in our present
system : but when the reverse of this was the fact,
and a:snost every manutaaturiug town had a Petition
on their table, he conceived it was for the House to
come to a, very different conclusion. If irwas the
objet to import raw materials, and to expo'', manu-
factured commodities, he contended that there was
nothing in the Orders of council as they at present
striod to prevent this, and therefore in that point of
view, France could detive no benefit from their re.
peal. Their repeal would not injure the West India
interest, and would in his opinion be beneficial to
the Empire at large.
Lord CASTLEREAGH said the vote he should give
•
was net an admission against the merits Of the ques-
tion, but merely a concesion to the wishes of the
deuntty, to go into italuiry on the subject. Tne
Orders in Council were not mere commercial regu-
lations,' but measures of retaliation against-France;
and as an effort against the enemy, they were effi-
cacious. , The 'Berlin and Milan DecreeS, he con-
tended," were in full force, and England was always
prepared to say, that, the-Orders in Council should
fall when those a•creeS were withdrawn. The con-
dition, however, put on the other side, was, that
their Decrees should tall with the surrender of our
of blockade. He trusted that if there was
any hostile feeling in America towards us, the cons
, duct of France. would bring her back to more mild
faVotirable sentiments. We should not revoke
our system in rayons of one neutral to the manitest
injury of all Others. He would allow that Mr.
Monroe did not contend against tire principle of
180, but there wasa period in which America
joined France, to
.call upon us for a revocation of
those prieciples of bloCkade which we had hitherto
mainiained, and the'adoption of the maritime rule
of France. When such a demand was made, he
hoped the Hoes& would not be inclined to look upon
it as a mere commercial question. America, he
trusted, would not make our conduct a cause of
war ; but if she did, our duty would be to, satisfy
our own minds as to the justice of the case' and not
to be deterred by our apprehension of war from the
pursuit of what we know to be right. On the
commercial part of the suojea he could not help ob-
serving that there waa a disposition in Oentlemen
greatly to exaggerate the difficulties expellent:ed.
To impute those difficulties to tbesOrders in Coon-
eil, was neiiker logical nor fair. Looking to the do-
cuments on the- table _they would find, that the
whole state of tie commerce during the pr9sent
war, had experienced an -increase rapid beyond .ex-
ample, extensive, and unnatural in its degree. They
would find that, at the present moment, the export
of British manufadures within the year exeered,:a

ttlie whole-ilthount of the rrlinnfaa ore! of/Prince.-67-
The amount of the latter for 'the 1 ist year was
64,000,0001. the amount, of the -foriner for the sarot
period, 62,000,0001. OpOrl the whole; the last
four vearS under the Orders in CoUncil had pro,
duced 4 at 5,000,0001. more thin the (our preceding
years. Much of die present difficulties might be
traced to
..this Unnatural, and as lie might, call
diseased Ind giOntit success; which recoiled back
upon the ditt•tlistit's and mannfaatirters. There was
souletliipg in the very prosperity _or this country
which rendered it more liable to such diffilAtities, by
rendering'the individuals less willing to leave their
own ttailei for others, The ditea trade with the
United Stares of America, he • would allow, was di-.
minished by the unfortunate commercial hostility;
but the exports to the other parts had Olsen in 'pro-
portion, so that the general trade across the Atlantic
diJ not, suffer. Notwithstanding the policy of the
Emperor of France, there was much of the trade
of Franceinow•opento us, and our intercourse with
the Continent of Europe in the last year had pro-
duced 13 millions sterlitig. He intreated that Gen-
tlemen would not throw 6:it-loose and general allu-
sions ucon this sunjea, calculated to etnnitter the
feelit'gs of those Who' suffered Inder difficulties
which the remedy proposed must aggravate mater
than 'diminish. He was glad that inquiry would
be adopted, but Wished his assent to the motion to
be considered not-as any un wisp disposition to sin--
renckr: the rights of the country, but a desire to
shew the people that there was no intention to de.
cs-ive them. •

Mr. BROUGHAM said, he had • had the honour of
seconding the motion for a Committee of the whole
House; but he. should not now trespass on their
time, by uttering a single word as to. t{ie merits of
the Orders in- Council. When the inquiry 1%35
adopted, the time for that would come.. He
de-
precated the exulting tone adopted by. Noble
Lord, in „speaking •of the prosperity of Our com-
merce; but his principal designin rising Was to,call
t heir attention to-the meaning of the present vote.,
The Noble Lord bad :said, thlt he would go info
the Committee, not from any doubt in the .n-ea 4
sures ; but he (Mr. B ) would ask, was clot the
very a6t of going .into a Committee, puiting tho
measures on theft trial ? He cautioned the House
and the Country against the delusion of going into,
Committee, upon an understanding that, they sbouA
never be abandoned. He coneluded•with suggest-
ing that. the Committee should sit to-morrow, and
proceed from d3y to day.
Mr. R()SE explained.

Mr. STEPHEN contended, that the volutries of
Grotius,• Paffendorf, and Vatel„ shpuld not he ex-
cluded from their 'consideration. The Hon. Gen-
tleman, he thought, might permit them to lOok
forward on their own ides to the termination of the
inquiry, anti to suppose tnat the , measures would
appear to be founded in good policy. lie would
confess that he did not expect many salutary effects
flotin the- Committee, because lie remembered- the
b ,dy of, evidence produced about four years ago,
:not withstanchng which, thcTgb. no oue had the
courage to move resolutions, as4ertiotiS were made
and circulated contrary tor the evidence. He rather
assented to the COinmitttie as a negative good, and
merely for the 'purpose of preventing m'scons:ruc-
tion. He corroborated the statement'of the Noble
Secretary (Lord Catlereagh) respecting the corn- .
mereial operation of the Orders in' Council, and
cooted various passages from the correspoßcierce
be-
tween the two Governments, to shew that the
abandonment of the principle of 1806 was required
by .theAtnerican Government. i It was for the sake
of tie merchants and manufacturers that the s)s'em
was introduced, and whatever the Petitioners might
say, the House must be aware that persons attend-
ing to their business in forges and.looms, could not,
take that comprehensive view of the subject which
those, in ofticial.situations were accustomed to eXer—
ci,e. He di•approved in. strong terms of introducing
the riots into the question of the Orders in Cov-
ed, and .maintained that the yellow fever might with
as much justice be ascribed to that measure as the
present scarcity ; still he was. • ready to go into a
dispassionate inquiry, and he hoped that Gentlemen
on the other side would not adopt the same course
as on the fanner occasion. If any good was to be
expected, it must proceed' from temperance alone:
Lord STANLEY (in explanation) said be had not
stated-that the, Berlin Decree was a mere municipal
regulation. He wished to inquire. whether, if it
should appear that the Orders in Council constituted
the principal cause of the present distress, his Ma-
jesty's Government wculd give up the measure, or
perseverein their former declaration ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that
as one of his Majesty's Government, he could not
make any statement previous to inquiry. He sup.
posed the House would inquire into the various
causes of the distresses of the manufadturers,-but
did not think that they would abandon those mea-
sures, merely upon theground of a temporary pres-
sure. The House would therefore endeavour to as-
certain what the extent of the pressure was, what
the extent of the causes was, what their extent
might have been, and to what extent their abandon-
ment might be injurious to the country. He there-
fore thought it impo,sible for him to gi‘e any pledge
upon the subject.
'Mr. TIERNEY ascribed the appointment of the
Committee.to the Minister's wanting support.

CHARGES MADE BYIHE_AMERIGAti GOVERN.

MENT.

Mr. WHITBREAD, after a few observations on the
general question, called the attention of the House
to a transaction alluded to in the Messege of Mr:
'Madison to Congress, charging this Govertunetic
with being partieS in an endeavour to disturb the
union of the United Sates. He then read
sage frOm a letter of Sir James c.riig to Mr. Henry,
stating, that if the Federalists of the Eastern States
should obtain a decided intlueoce, it was not imnio-
bable they would exert their influence to bring about
a separation from the general union,' and requiting
him to transmit the earliest information on this sub-
ject to the Stitish Government, asc..trtaining, among
other things, haw far they would be inclined to look
up to England for asssistance, or be disposed torei;ter
into a connection with tier. He (Mr. Whitbread)
Wished fir some it,forMation from his Majesty
Ministers_on this subject.
LOrd-CASTLEHEAGH said, ha wv obliged to the
Hun. Gentleman for giving him an opportuin:t%•
u; :on a matter which he could not nett,
saying was unianly brought forward by iht!
Atracri-
can Gov UrnaleU t. They had charged the Gi,verti-