The Sun.
London, England, 1841-08-28 00:00:00

THE WORKING CLASSES.

Mr. SHARMAN 'CRAWFORD gave motice,, that
on bringing up the report of the Address to
her Majesty, he should move an additional patitgraph
to the following effect :—" That we further res-
pectfully represent to your Majesty that, in our
opinion, the distress which your Majesty deplores is
mainly attributable to the circumstance of-your whole
people not. being fully and fairly represented
in the House, and that we feel it will be our
duty to consider -the means of so eX:tending and
regulating the suffrage, and adopting such improvements
in the system of voting, as shall confer on .the working.
classes that just •right in the representative body
which is necessary to secure a due consideration of their
interests, and which their present patient endurance of
suffering. gives them the strongest title to-claim.
Captain BERKELEY gave notice that on. September
the 21st, he should move " That the practice of sending her
Majesty's ships to foreign stations inefficientlrinanned,
and unprepared for every emergency, is detrimental to the
interests of the navy and injurious to the character and
honour of the British flag ;" and on September 28, he
should also move, that ." it is the opinion of, this House
that the officers, soldiers, marines, &c., employed at
the taking of St. Jean d'Acre are as entitled to pecu-
niary reward as those that had been engaged at the
bombardment of Algiers and Navariuo."
-Dr. BO\VRING rose pursuant to notice, to move for
"A return of the.amount of taxes levied on land in the
different states of Europe; disting,uishing the taxes raised
for the service of the state from. those levied for local
purposes ; the return to show the amount in the monies and
measures of the different States, and.to be rendered into
British monies and, measures. Also Return libiting
ex
the proportion borne by the land tax (as proxima-
tively as it can be estimated) to the value . :rental of
land in the different countries of Europe." i *
Mr. D'ISRAELI intimated 'his intention ''9s opposing
the motion.
Dr. BOWRING then notice that he ,inittid. bring
. b
'forward his motion on Monday next. - -‘-' •
THE NAVY PAY BILL.
_ . .

On the Order of the Day being read fur the second
reading of this Bill,
Captain BERKELEY begged leave to call the atten-
tion of tie Secretary, of the Admiralty to the hardship
to which seamen in the Mediterranean were subjected,
in being obliged to receive the dollar for 4s. 4d. while
they were obliged to spend it at the rate of 4s. He
hoped the Admiralty would redress the grievance.
Mr. PARKER was understood to say that the Admi-
ralty would take the case into their consideration.
The Bill was then read a second time, and was or-
dered to be committed on Monday next. •
THE ADJOURNED DEBATE.

On the Order of the Day being read for resuming the
adjourned debate on the Address,
Mr. B. M. MILNES rose and said, that he believed the
prolongation of that debate could not be satisfactory,
either to the House or the country. It could not be
satisfactory to Hon. Gentlemen opposite themselves to
make statements, which, becau.:e they were not an-
swered, couli not be supposed to be irrefragable.—(Hear.)
He thought th6y brought forward this measure at a bad
time. They wished to give a false colour to the debate.
Gentlemen opposite would wish the question to be con-
sidered as one of principle on their side, and as one of
party on his.—(Hear, hear, from the Ministerial side of
the House.) He would say this question was considered
not a question of principle. Gentlemen knew this
question was not, abstractedly considered, the qnes-
tion of the Corn-laws. The men, as well as the measures,
were the subject of decision, and could not be separated.
Persons and party were involved in the question, and
the Hon. Mover of the Address put the question in a
form which he knew they could not grapple with.—
(Ministerial cheers.) Yes, the question was put forward
in a manner with which they could not grapple—(Cheers
from the same quarter)—becauSe they knew it could only
be grappled with by men who occupied a legitimate and
distinct position in the country.—(Laughter.) They
knew that the principal accusation against the Govern-
ment was that they brought forward those mea-
sures impertinently and injudiciously, as they must
be aware that a satisfactory decision could net
be come to on the subject ; and when they
heard the . Chancellor of the. Exchequer stating that
the question, regarded as one of revenue, shrunk
into nothing before . the moral and political ques-
tions involved, they heard it admitted as strongly as
they could, that it was nominally a financial question, but
that in reality it concealed other and higher considerations.
He was unwilling to prolong a debate which ought for
all practical and reasonable purposes. to be shortened as
much its-possible—which should be left to the leader.: of
the two great parties in this country.—(Hear, hear.)
The country had seen by the history of the present Go-
vernment, that a Government resting upon every-day
popularity could not win the. affections of the people.
Such a Government was obliged by its very existence to
affect a confidence which it did not possess,- and to make
promises which it could never perform. The Honourable
Member for Bath. had said the other night that
it was an amiable weakness on the part of the Go-
vernment, that they had expressed a desire to pass
measures which they had not the power of carrying.
He (Mr. Milnes) thought that in politics, as in daily
life, it was the business of' reasonable men to desire
only that which. was attainable ; and this appeared
to him to he one distinction betweeri the Government
which was about to be formed and the present
one, that the former would try to effect only
that which it believed to be practically attainable. The
appeal which he made to the country was of two kinds ;
it was an appeal as to measures, and an appeal
'as to men. The country had decided. as
to the value of measures and the choice of men. A Go-
vernment, situated like her Majesty's Government,
should feel every form of office a burden upon their
backs. Because they were not in the position
in which the Government of a . free country ought
to be, they should rejoice in the hope of being liberated
from office. He wished, for the sake of the historical
reputation of this country, that her Majesty's Govern-
ment had retired earlier from office ; that they had not
waited for a process of. legal rejection. He believed
that they would then have come to the discussion
of the proposed measures in a more friendly spirit than
they had done. The few words which he had uttered
would, he trusted, recal to Hon: Gentlemen the real gist
of the question before the House, and show them the
real question before them was upon whom devolved the
responsibility of governing the country.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. RENNIE had not intended to have offered any
observations for the consideration of the- House, had it
not been for the great
change that had taken place
in the manner of treating the present debate by
Hon. Member.: opposite. The Hon. Member for
the West Riding of Yorkshire brought forward
his Amendment. He told the House that the real ques-
tion was one of confidence or no confidence, but al-
though every Speaker up to the middle of last night
concurred in those sentiments, he had heard great
change in the sentiments of those who had
since addressed the House. This to him was a matter
of surprise, considering that the resolution taken by the
mover of the amendment to the Address had not been
taken at the spur of the moment, but had been the re-
sult of a meeting that had taken place at the house of
the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, The Hon. Member
who had just sat down had. ,explained the real secret
why Hon. Members on that side of the House had not
spoken ; he had stated that they could not grapple
with the statements of the Hon. Member for Manchester.
He wished to say one word on the subject of the Corn-
laws, which had not as yet been alluded to. He hoped
there were some Honourable Members connected
with the agricultural districts present—(Hear, hear)
—because he 'was anxious to call the attention
to the important modes in which agricultural operations
were carried on in the southern counties of Scotland,
in Roxburghshire and the three Lothians. It appeared
to him that the landowners had not brought to their aid
the improvements which machinery had rendered available
as the manufacturers had done. By that means all the
manufacturer had been enabled to carry on a competi-
tion with the manufacturers of the Continent, and if a
similar practice, had prevailed among the agriculturists,
they would have had less objection to the ports being thrown
open to the importation of foreign corn! The improved
rents which were obtained in Scotland and- the
north of England, were a proof that it was
to enlightened agricultural improvements they owed
their superiority over the English farmers.—(Hear.)
The country now found itself in a position of very
great difficulty. Neither side had yet denied the great
distress that existed among the millions of manufacturers
of this country. They had called those millions
into existence and those millions must be fed.
He never yet heard of any wish on the part
of those who represented the manufacturers that that
interest should be propped up. at the expense of the landed
interest. All they asked was equal justice—that they
might be allowed to exchnge their commodities for the com-
modities of other countries; and he thought that thelanded
proprietors, if they understood their true interest, would,
before this question was pushed too far, concede what
was now so reasonably demanded of them.—(Hear.)
He would only repeat, in conclusion, that the time was
come when something should be done to satisfy the minds
lof the people of this country.
Mr. WALLACE said he thought it was the
duty of the House to discuss, at the earliest opportunity,
the great questions referred to in the Speech, from the
Throne. He knew that lion. Gentlemen opposite claimed
to themselves nearly the exclusive right to represent the
feelings of the people of England ; but for his part he
felt persuaded that no claim could be mote
unfounded. He believed in despite of the late elections
that the people throughout the country were thoroughly
reformers, and he was sure that if attention had been
paid to what bad fallen from his Hon. Friend the Member
for Rochdale (Mr.,'S. Crawford), namely, the improvement
and the perfection of the Reform Bill, the phalanx
opposite could not count the numbers which they now
arranged in hostility to the Government. If her Majes-
ty's Government had carried out the principles which they
had promulgated in bringing forward the Reform Bill,
no such majority would be seated opposite that clay.
Above all, if the Ballot had been passed, the dominion
of Conservatism would have been at an end.—(Hear,
hear.) They had only to observe how unpalateable the
mention of such subjects had ever been to the party op-
posite, and .laOw. their countenances' bWayed their fear