The Sun.
London, England, 1812-04-29 00:00:00

TUESDAY, -APRIL 28.

In a Committed of Prk;ileges, which sat only for
A few micutes, the further consideration of tlle cases
of the Borthwick and Roxburgh Peerages was ad 7
)(turned till Thursday. -
Atter the House was resumed, their Lordships
proceeded to forward•t he Bills upon the table.
TRADE TO INDIA.

The MarOis of STAFFORD presented a Petition
from certain Manufattureis and others, of the town
of Walsal, in Staffordshire, praying that the trade
to the East Inthes may be thrown open to his Ma-
jesty's subjects•at large, &c.
AP• (ilion to the like effea from the Town of
Wednesbury, was presented by one of their Lord-
,
ships.

'hie Duke of DEVONSHIRE presented one from
the Ciiy of Waterford, in Leland, against the je-
ne% ai of the East India Company's exelusiire rho-
pop*.
One to a similar -effect " from Wigan, in Lanca.,
shire, was presented by the Earl of BALCARRAS.
These Petitions were severally ordered to lie on
the table.

Lord GRENVILLE presented a Petition from the
# Mayor, Burgesses, and Commoners, forming the
Corporation of the City of Bristol, praying, for the
reasons therein assigned, that their Lordships would
• not consent to a renewal of the exclusive privileges.
of the East India Company, &c.
The Petition was read at length by the Clerk.
Upon. which
Lord GRENVILLE said, that in rising to move that
this Petition EL, he on the table, he could not avoid
iecaling their Lordships' attention to what took place
on a former evening respecting the intended discus-
sion on the great national question to which the
Petition referred. They were told it was intended
to bring forward these discussions at an early ensu-
ing period this Session. They were all agreed that
. the queii;oo was not only of the greatest import-
ance to the commtrcial interests of the country,
but involvi. g, at the same time, some of the high-
est interests on which the Legislature could
be called on to deliberate. This subject, great and
extensive as it was, Le held, it would be utterly im-
possible, were they to confine themselves even to
the commercial pint of he question, to discuss it in
a ht and proper manner, such as its importance re-
quired; to wnat remained of the Session. The sub-
ject was recur ,inencted to toe attention of Parlia-
-- went from the Throne at the beginning of the Ses-
Four mooths.hacl now elapsed without a mo-
ment of time bell bestowed upon it : but now,
%vie n they were iuld the subject was very nearly
ripe tor consideratiOn, their Lordships were expeCi•
ed to remain in the, same state of utter inactivity
with repec.i to it, waitieg until they should receive
lessons from the_ otheizHouse of Parliament on• the

sion.

subjtql, and it vvus brought before'thern in the

shape of a B 1. A Noble friend Of his had sug-
gested a made of proceeding, in which the subject
c.'uid be brought before .both Houses of Parliament,
where tirt tOueliollB of the one House could tint be
nectssarily excluded, until the other branch of the
Legisiature„Lad taken its final leave of the business;
but a mode.arid system of deliberation in which both
Houses could reciprocally afford light and assis►ance
to t ac't 'other. He trusted some on,e of his Noble
Eicnds would come forward this Session, and bring
the subject befole the House in the shape of Reso-
lutions, involving the consideration, whether, on
just grounds, the trade, not only to the East
but to every other part of Ale Globe, could be pre-
vented from becoming general,- or confined esclu-
rhiVe4 to arty part, of the Kingdom. In this train
of discussion, he trusted, they all wished to see it ;
and he again expressed hiS hope, that some Noble
"Losrd would, were it not done by the King's Go-
vernment, bring the subject before the House in the
shape of Restlutions. But this consideration was of
,great and imti ediate importance, namely, that it -ap-
peart:d iron communications which have gone forth
to the wt;rld, though not officially made, and even
from the avowal of Ministers, that they were not
even now adequately. pr, pared to come forward.

His Lotd3hip concluded, by moving, that the Peti-

lion do li, on iht, table.

Tile Earl of BUCKINGHAMSHIRE averred that his
Majesty's► Gov:rument felt and cniertaioed the

strongest desire, and the most determined resolution,
to propose nothing to Parliament which they were
Satisfied ir.•their own minds was, upon this great oc-
cithion, nor c,nducive to the general interests of the
--
country.

Ha Nwnie Friend and the Huse were

*ware,- it was a subjea whi..h issolved such a col-

li ,on of interts,s, ilia' there could be no intention
on .he pit of hi, Majesty's Gnvernnnent, as he had
taken, th,-; liberty ni slating, to precipitate the dis-

cussion of the measure. With respett to the par-
11,:ular course of 1 rocreding to be ad, pted, a variety
of opinions rwiy arise; 1:1,t with respect to tl,ose
avowed by is Nobly Friend on that band, tie would
beg to look to what was his own condud oti a sinyi-

lar—occasion,‘vhile fOrtning,ap,?.rt-of the 'then Go-

vernmt Bt. He surely would nut pretend to state
that rlt subjed. wag not eq,,ally important in the

yrar 1793 to what it now was". At that time, his
Noble k't lend Oischarged his duty in the manner h

thought most aJvantogcous for the purpose, when
hu I.ursued a course directly the reverse of what he

now reccimmended. He was sure if consistency
were to be found in any indit idual, his Noble Friend

could not object to the adoption of • it similar course
Oil the present OCCA3ICiII.
_

Lot's: GRENVILLE begged leave to assure his No-
ble Friend that in the present case, the very thing
AN' ich he bad supposed he should not say, was
what be G ) ceitainly meant •to say, pnd be-
cause it ~Aits'stiii-tly.t.rt.e. He must protest, how-
ever, ogati!Sl an'y comparison of the importance of
tho question in 1793, a:.(1 at the present period.—
At that time there did not exist ti.at gre.it,irnmense,
0(141 even,tve differeme at ojnion which now evi-

dently -xisted. The questkn then was, whether
it were ptuper to continue, for a hunted \time, the
11,,tetrt then in evstence. At present the strongest
iitferenre was ni.innested, were it only from the
tit:memos Petitions and apilications to ihe Legisla-
tjne tiuut every part of the country. Th. se, who,

t,- tie former occasion, were of opinion !hat no

ought to Lic made,. might have cowitiaed

the period of thp Session at which *they 'am for-
ward,-abundantly sufficient ,tpr agitating the opera,
tion in that point of view ; may, on the same prin-
ciple, now consider a sitnifar period for discussion
totally insu,fficienr, when their opinions were chang-
ed as to the grand question of continuation. What-
ever the difference of opinion may be upon almost
all other points, they were all decided that a great
and effedual change must take place in 'the whole
system ; a consideration which would bear no com-
parison with the mere queStion of continuance. But
there was another consideration which it was itripos-
sible any Noble Lord could overlook—that which
was presented by a view of the distresses of the
Country, by the cries and lamentations of their fel-
low subjects, for opening new markets, when tfe
trade and commerce of the country were in the
lowest and most distressed situation ever known—a
situation to which the weak and wretched policy of
Ministers lead reduced them. The subject and the
questions arising out of it were now greatly and es-
sentially different ; they had to look more especially
to every poasible means of reviving the wonted coin-
resercial prosperity of the country, the very existence
of which was now at stake.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL said he must be allowed
to observe, that there was no disposition whatever,
nor any reason to suppose there was, en the part of
the King's servants to avoid any course of
.proceed-
ing that would give to Parliament and to the coun-
try the fullest opportunities of deliberating on the'
subject in question. Even if the course adverted to
was adopted; it would still be at the option of any;
Noble Lord •to bring for Ward any of the great
branches of the subject' to consideration under 'se-
parate discussion. With resped to what was said
of the occasion in 1793, it be were not mistaken,
there were also at that time the strongest representa-
tions from all the manufacturing towns, and soliciting
that the trade may then be thrown open to the
country at large: and an arrangement had been pro-
posed, by which it was thought that considerable
benefits in the way of trade may be derived by indivi-
duals through the medium of the Company. Much
difference of sentiment existed whether this turned
out to be the expeCted boon or not, but he did
think, that whatever the object of the arrangement
was, that it had not answered the purpose for which
it was intended by those who introduced ii. There
was an essential change in the law, as appeared by
what had.been adopted, partly from the state of the
thing itself, and partly in consequence of the re-
presentation of those bodies: In another point of
view, that part of the queatien was misrepresented,
namely, in that period being one of unexampled
piosperity. He was far from being insensible to all
the difficulties and dangers of the present moment
—not this ayes the first time he ever heard the year
1793 pointed out as one of great prosperity. Orr
the contrary, it may be doubted, possibly with the
exception of the present, whether there was ever a
period in which the Universal commercial distresses
of the country were greater than at that very pe-
riod. Tile. measures which the Government, of
which the Noble Baron (Lord Grenville) was a
member, piOposed,for the relief of those distresses,
viz. by loans and advances of 'Exchequer bills, were
a proof that he was under a most material misap•
prehension; and he must say, that at the former
period a tnetetial change in the system in question
then took place, 'and especially with respect to the
general state of the trade.
The Earl of LAUDEADALe contended, that a greet
and striking difference existed in the staid of the
question at present, and at the period of 1793.—
They had not then, as now, a prospect of India
ben% a burthen upon the finances of the country.
A Noble Marquis, then in his eye, had most ably
demonstrated the great benefits which would result
froth a free trade to India ; the militaty and politi-
cal parts of the question also constituted an essential
difference. Neither was there any comparison be-
tween the state Of this country at the. period allud-
ed to and the present time. They well recollected
how soon the country recovered from the tempo-
rary calamities of that year—calamities which were
considered by eminent Statesmen of that day, as in
some points of view, proceeding from the excessive
prosperity of the country at the time.
Earl GREY commented on the line and principle of
proceeding which obtained in the former instance
with respect to the discussion of this great national
question. It was no reason, he said, because the Legis-
lature might have negletted its duty on that, occasion,
that it should do so at present ; be hoped that if the
subject were to be brought forward, it would .be
at.a period, when it would-be possible to enter in-
to it with some prosped of being able to do jus-
tice to the extent and magnitude of its impOri-
ance. The petition was then ordered to lie upon,
the table.
CHARGE MADE BY VIE AMERICAN GOVERN.
MENT.
Lord HOLLAND, before the House proceeded to
any of the ether Orders of the Day, begged leave to
call the attention, particularly of a Noble Earl pre-
sent, and their Lordships, to a point of no small im-
portance. What he alluded to was a tumour which
had recently prevailed. It was known from accounts
received, that a message had been sent by the Presi-
dent of the United States to the Legislature of that
country, intimating that a conspiracy had been form-
ed 'by an Agent of the British Government against
the United States, and lie understood that the mes-
sage was accompanied by some docutne.:nts, which
imported that the person was immediately accredit-
ed either by the Noble Earl over against him, the
Noble Secretary of State, or the Commander in
Chief of his Majesty's troops in that quarter. He
did not rise for the pot pose Of making any .charge.
He trusted and hoped that the Noble Lord, or some
other person in an official situation, would be able
to give a direct disclairrier and contradiction of what
had been alleged on the occasion to 'which he had
alluded.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL s4id, lie had not the least
objection to give the Noble Baron every satisfac-
tion he could require on the point alluded to. With
respect to the Message of the President of the Unit-
ed States, it had certainly not come to the know-
ledge of the King's Government in any official
shape, or in such a shape that it could be regularly
communicated. He had, however, no great dif-
ficulty, without the least reseration, to disclaim for
himself, and he Was sure it could also be disclaimed
by any of the persons connected with him in his
Majesty's Government, that in any ad of theirs, or
through any person whatever, they had never in-
Leaded to do any thing which had for its objeCi a

separation of any one pat of the dominions of the
United States from another. That with respe& to
the correspondence, he wished it to be perfectly un-
derstood that With regard -td any person being .em-
ployed as alleged, it was without any authority
whatever-on the- part of his Majesty, and wi, bout
even the knoWledge of the fact that any such indi-
vidual was employed; and witti respect to, any
knowledge of the alleged object, fie was Satisfied the
respectable person alluded to only required such
formation as may be-necessary for the- security of
that part of his Majesty's dominions which hego-
•verned. The situation of that individual -rendered
certain information necessary; but as to any inten-
tion on the part of any one connected with his
Majesty's Government, to foment any dissensions
among the United States, was what he expressly
disclaimed.
Lord HOLLAND wished to know[whether it was
meant, that the individual, Captain Henry, was not
employed in any capacity by his Majesty's Govern-
ment ? or that they did not know that he was so
employed ? ,
. The Earl of LIVERPOOL explained, that Go-
vernment never authorised 'such employment ~ot
Captain Henry, nor did they ever know of his
being employed at all, until some tiftie after his
return from Quebec; and, he added, it was his
(Lord Liverpool's) firm belief and persuasion, that
he was only einployed for the purpose of obtaining
'information.
Lord HOLLAND expressed hii opinion,. that in -
such a case, were it only for the satisfaaion of the
Public, some information should be shortly laid be-
fore the House on the subjeft. "
• PROTESTANT DISSENTERS.
Lord HOLLAND presented a Petition from the
'Protestant Dissenters embodied in Societies in the
cities of London and Westminstei, praying for the
repeal and abrogation of all penalties and legal disa-
bilities imposed on all descriptions of his• Majesty's
subjects, on the score of their religious tenets .and
persuasions, &c.
The Petition being read by the Clenk, and order-
ed to lie on the table,
Earl. STANHOPE announced his intention shortly
to introduce a Bill for carrying into effect the prayer
of this admirable Petition, which he thought would
tend to render a most essential service to man-
kind.

• A variety of documents were presented from the
Bank of England, pursuant to recent votes of their
Lordships.
The Irish Distilleries Bill, and,a few others,were
brought tip from the Commons, and read a first
time.