The Sun.
London, England, 1841-09-18 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 18, 1t441.

justly say at present. If such distress exists, as it un-
doubtedly does, I think no personal inconvenience
attendant on the sitting of Parliament for six weeks
longer ought to prevent our taking into consideration this
autumn the law which regulates the trade in corn-.
There has been an address presented to her Miesty,
which was agreed to at Manchester at a public meeting,
convened in compliance of a requisition, bearing 1,018
signatures of merchants, manufacturers, and other
respectable individuals of all classes, and Which
states that they approach the Throne in order
to state their sentiments of profound venera-
tion for her Majesty's person and their ardent
attachment to the throne—that commercial depression
was extreme, and that all classes of her Majesty's sub-

,sects, and especially the poorer classes, were enduring
privations more grievous than had ever been knovvn. to

iheir oldest inhabitants. They begl to assure her
Majesty that during the last four years that
distress has existed, and has been increasing
and that it has been borne by thousands of victims with
an enduring patience highly creditable to their moral
character.—(Hear.) They state that the ability to ex-
ercise acts of benevolence by the upper and middle
classes begins to fail, and that the distress under which

. - -
the poor -have suffered have begun to visit these;,
and that, in contemplating the Ttpproach of winter
under these circumstances, thell' hearts sink within them,
and they sigh at the project of such bitter destitution,
They therefore pray elm.
her _Royal Prerop.•'• r.der 'Majesty, in the exercise of
ve- will b 3 pleased not to prorogue
the two
as th,' houses of Parliament until such time
. ... portion of her Majesty's gracious Speech, deli-
.,erod at the opening of the present Session, relating
to the Corn laws, shall have been fully .delibe-

rated in Parliament; and they state that her i\lajesty's
compliance with their prayer will be to them an assu-
rance that she is graciously disposed, as she has
ever been, to interest herself in the happiness and
welfare of her people.--(Hear, and cheers.) Now, Sir,
this is not the opinion and sentiments of Manchester
only, but the sentiments of other towns suffering like-

wise under similar distress. If you separate, the only
remedy which can be applied is the one already hinted,
namely, by the interposition of relief given out of
the rates raised for the support of the Poor.
Now, Sir, if there were occasional privations and occa-
sional distress, that might be a reasonable proposition,
but if not—if it is connected generally with the state of
tree trade, I beg leave to say that such a remedy will be
quite inefficacious.—(Cheers.) Supposing the case

were similar to that which occurred

in some

agricultural parishes before the introduction of the New
Poor- law, when the produce and profit of the land were
entirely absorbed by the poor's-rate, you are, then, de-
stroying the source of manufacturing prosperity. But
you must remember that it is the power of those en-
gaged in manufactures, when they find themselves subject
to continual losses during a period of four years, one
year after another—it is in their power to withdraw
their capital from those manufacturing establishments to
preserve that capital, and leave the people depending on
them to that relief from the Poor-rates, which must
issue in the entire sacrifice of the land itself.

I am afraid—and I have heard instances in which this has

taken place—that persons finding one half of their
capital already gone, may resolve to save the
other half by ceasing to employ art in manufac-
tures in this country. In the course of the
debate two months ago, when we were discussing
the Corn-laws, the Right Hon. Gentleman argued against
the notion then entertained that we were arrived at a
state of great manufacturing distress, and I remember
my observing then, that I did not think that the case of
manufacturing distress such as it was stated had been
made out, but that it was advisable that the
House should effect an alteration in the Corn-laws;
because if that manufacturing distress should really
reach to a great pitch hereafter, your interposition would
then be too late. My- argument was, that so long as you
had any possibility of retaining your markets manufac-
tures would continue to be sent abroad—so long as ma-
nufacturers had the least chance of obtaining a profit on
their goods, they would consign their goods to foreign
markets ; but when they had lost those markets—when
you arrived at that period when your manufactures could
not be sold abroad, you would then have lost those mar-
kets—it will then be too late for you to interpose, and
the alteration of your laws will not bring a remedy to
the evils which have occurred.—(Hear.) I am afraid
that with respect to one branch of our manufactures—l
mean our cotton trade—if it be not relieved by some
alteration in our laws, and by a greater freedom of trade,
it will be outdone by foreign competition—(Hear, hear)—
that our manufacturing establishments will be broken
up, and that a large portion of the population, which
cannot be relieved from the poor-rate, will then be left
without any resource.—(Hear.) If there be any grounds
for these apprehensions, they at least form a matter for
the consideration of Parliament. You may say, " That
these fears are unfounded ; and in considering those
Matters which were laid before you in the Queen's
Speech, you may say that we have come to the ' opi-
nion that the manufitcturing prosperity of, this country
is based upon a rock— -that it is unshaken—that the
Corn-laws do not affect it—but, on the contrary, the
Corn-laws tend to the welfare of the country—that is the
is7sult of our solemn deliberation." Why, if that be the
result of your solemn deliberation, so state it, and that
will at least give the country the satisfaction of knowing
that you have fairly and fully considered the subject.
But what is now proposed is merely this, that you
should grant certain sums of money ; that you should
pass a continuance of laws which would expire at the
end of the present year, and then, without any sort of
inquiry, without any sort of consideration, that until
five months hence you shall not come to any conside-
ration on the great questions which agitate the country.
As far as relates to the finances of the country, in my
opinion it is now necessary to take some measures which
we might hope would alleviate their present state. In
my opinion it would be far better to adopt a course of
measures which, if they did not yield an increase of re-
venue, yet would yield an increase of the trade and com-
merce of the country, and so make the revenue
equal to its expenditure. But the only proposal
which has been made is to obtain a vote of credit
to continue until the next year. I, Sir, deeply regret
the course proposed to be pursued, for I am afraid it will
not give satisfaction to the country, and more especially
to those residing in the manufacturing districts.—
(Hear, hear.) I feel thoroughly persuaded that if, in-
stead of pursuing this course, you had adopted those
measures which the late Government announced on the
13th of April last, they would have produced a
revival of trade—(Loud eheering)—and, in augment-
ing the revenue by such means, you would have secured
a still greater object, an increase of the comforts and
happiness of the people.—(Cheers.) Nay, more, by de-
claring to the whole world that you were about to inter-
change your products for theirs on a free basis, you would
have contributed to the future peace of the world.—
(Loud cheers.) For there can be no feeling so strong—
no security equal to the feeling that one country derives
benefits from the other—(Cheers)—and that if such in-
tercourse be interrupted, will cause far greater calamities
than an ordinary war between hostile nations.
(Loud cheers..) It is not because our
measures would improve the revenue merely, but because
they would contribute to the peace of the world, that
I deeply regret their rejection. But even now, although
they have been rejected, I think still that the Right
lion. Gentleman and her Majesty's present Government
ought not at once to decide that they will not enter into
the consideration of measures so important on the
present occasion.— (Cheers.) Still I feel per-
suaded that if they have made up their minds
to pursue that course, unwise although I think it, they
will receive the support of that majority which recently
placed them in office ; but when toe events of the year
are reviewed, it will be found by the people of the coun-
try that great advantages would have been derived
from the fair consideration, instead of the abrupt re-
jection of those measures, and that in adjourning their
consideration until next year, you adjourn all the bene-
fits which would have flowed from them. It is not my
intention on this occasion, or on any other, to propose
any motion to the House, or to ask any division against
the course proposed to be taken by the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman ; but, as a Member of this House, I beg not to
be held responsible in any way for the course which will
most likely, be pursued.
Sir R. PEEL said, Sir, the course I took yesterday in
announcing to the House the proceedings which I pro-
posed to adopt with respect to the public business of the
country, will have been a sufficient indication that I had
no wish at the commencement of the harassing and ar-
duous task committed to me, to commence it by any con-
troversy of a party nature. At the same time I am per-
fectly ready to admit that that course of proceeding con-
stitutes no rule for the Noble Lord—that our respective
positions are different—and that he is entirely at liberty
to invite me to the discussion which he has opened;
and, although I had no wish to originate the discussion,
yet I can assure the Noble Lord that I am little disposed
to avoid it, and on the contrary, I am thankful rather
than otherwise for the opportunity of commenting on
the observations he has made.—(Loud cheers.) I refer
in the first instance to the facts on which there can be
no material disagreement between us. I concur with
the Noble Lord in the earnest desire that our amicable
relations may be maintained between this country and
France, and, if possible, I shall more cordially
concur with him in the prayer he expressed, that
it may please Almighty God to continue
his protection from the hand of assassins to that great
man to whom the destinies of that country have been
intrusted.—(Cheers) Sir, it is impossible to hear of
those abominable attacks—of those infamous and sense-
less attempts—without feeling pain for the character of
humanity, but it appears as if Providence had provided
some compensation for them, for the only results of these
attempts is to provoke one general feeling of disgust to-
wards their abettors, and it would appear as
if some special protection was vouchsafed to
that Illustrious family; and my firm belief r- is,
sINt
lapitlc sit
col:
toe
Ngng oabaalresa
int
ahey continue
toered
fionrt ltietl
ewpisr
wish that
e te
hrrvaati gtairsoithey
sosfi
lm constitute a
petaiocen.mlayjobine
_defected, and the assassins meet with signal punishment.
Sir, I cannot anticipate that the change which has taken
---(rl ,mhye hear.)
indispositionr lhave rteocwe
towards
vredtal
tnhoe ipnrtei
_-
place in the Government is likely to interrupt our ami-
cmaabtlieoar efmlraoti o
France.
sent Government, or any apPrehension that our amicable
relations may be impaired. I should be surprised if it
were so, for I recollect, on the occurrence of those events
which shook to its foundation the throne of the empire of
France, as regarded the family of the Bourbons, I
was one of those who, in conjunction with the
illustrious Duke of Wellington, and many of those who
are now joined with me in the Government, seeing that it
appeared the will 'of the authorities -of the people of
France that their Gos ernment should be committed to
other hands, we aid, notwithstanding the relutance of
the power with whom we were in most cordial rela-
tion—we did at osce advise the Crown of this coun-
try to recognise that Sovereign on whom the choice
of the people of France anneared "
With ''- '

Millen.
w ire man who Ilia beery tio justly Braised
• Pro- by the Noble Lord--I mean the man who' now go'Orns
4 clink yon emo franco e qual ly with the IsToble Lora hope for his

preservation.—(Cheers.) Consistently with the main-
tenance of British honour, and without exclusive treaties,
I should desire to maintain intimate relation 3 of amity
with Fronde, I thhilt the intimate relations of amity
between England and France almost essential to the
maintenance of general peace. It must conduce to tho
advancement of social improVement and general civiliza-
tion.-(Grtat theeting,) am not now using language
to seatte the continuance of our present relations, or to
court the good opinion of the French • Govern-
ment.—(Cries of " Hear, hear."). During- ten years,
when I was out of office, my language has always been
the same.--(Hear, hear.) I have taken every opportu-
nity of assisting in keeping up peaceful relations, and I
gave all my assistance to affect an oblivion of the late
hostile collision.—(Hear.) I wish it may be forgotten
and that each nation may repose under the
laurels which each had gained, and. those two nations, so
distinguished in arts and military achievements, may
maintain peaceful relations without any disparagement of
their honour.—(Hear, hear.) This is
essential to
the welfare of the world.—(Cheers.) This is the
doctrine which I have always maintained when
Gentlemen opposite were in power, and it is not likely
that I shall now shrink from its repetition.—(Cheers.)
As to the United States, I confess I look to the present

state of our relations with th*Mvith great-anxiety.—
Hear, hear.) It seems to be as manifestly the
interest of these two countries, which are
united by so many ties, to avoid a hostile collision, that?
hope the good feeling and the good sense of the people
of this country will aid the Government if any necessity
for that aid should arise. But at the same time I feel
the obligation of making no concession derogatory
to the honour of this country for the sake of a

temporary conciliation.—(dreatCheering.)
I now
come to that question on which the controversy arises
between the Noble Lord and myself, and I particularly
regret that the Noble Lord declines to take the

sense of the House upon the difference of
our views. The House was elected under his
auspices (Loud cheers) and I wish he had
taken its sense as to the propriety of the course which I
mean to pursue.—(Hear, hear.) I think it would be no
more than reasonable—if, after ten years, during which
I have sat in this House as a private individual—
I think that, on returning to office, it would
be no more than reasonable that I should

not be expected, within fourteen days, to propose a mea-
sure fur altering all the laws of trade and commerce.—
(Cheers.) I thought it would be seen that there was a
necessity for obtaining official information, which would
require time, and that it was but rersonahle to permit
me to have an interval in consequence.—(Hear, hear.)
But if I am responsible for not proposing the altera-
tion of the Corn-laws in one month, dat is to be thought
of that Government—(Tremendous cheering)—l say,
what is to be thought of that Govesnment which held
office for five years, and never, until the month of May,
1841, intimated a united opinion on the question ?
If you are. convinced that intolerable evils are inflicted
on this country by the operation of the Corn-laws—
that commercial distress may justly be attributed, and
that the sufferings to which the working classes in some
parts of the country are exposed under those laws—what, I
ask, is your responsibility for not having, in five years,
brought forward any proposition to remedy the evil?—
(Cheers.) Why did you leave it an open question ?
(Cheers.) If you say you had no hope of carrying it,
then I tell you that, when I make up my mind
for an alteration in the Corn-laws, no such
consideration will induce me to act as you have acted.—
(Great cheering.) No fear of my proposition succeed-
ing here, and being defeated there, would cause me to
hesitate in stating to Parliament the decision of a united
Cabinet, whatever might he the result. But you, having
those opinions, permitted Lord Melbourne, in the House
of Lords, to state that there was no necessity. for altera-
tion, and to oppose inquiry.—(Renewed cheering.) You
object to the men whom we have chosen to join us. Why
did you make that man-the Vice-President of the Board
of Trade who was pledged to oppose all inquiry?
Five years have elapsed without any action on the part
of the late Government with respect to the Corn-laws.
—(Hear, hear.) It was not till April, 1841, that you
brought the question of them forward. And why, if you
entertained those feelings which you then represented
with respect to them—why, I ask, did you not call the
attention of the House to them in the Queen's Speech of
1840 ? Why reserve this question till you have made an
appeal to the people, and have been left in a minority
of 80?—=(Cheers.) You brought forward the Corn-laws
in 1841, and in a way that was most calculated to pre-
judice the mind of the country with respect to
them.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Of course there can be
no doubt that the, view you have taken with respect to
that question is a philosophic one.—(A laugh.) No
matter whether you raise one shilling or one million by
the Corn-law duty you proposed, it was still
your duty to call the attention of Parliament
to those subjects which were drying up the national
prosperity.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") What reason
could there be in 1841, at the commencement of the
Session, why you should not have inserted in the
Queen's Speech some recommendation analogous
to that which you inserted when you found you could
do no otherwise?—(Hear, hear.) You propose the 'al-
teration of the Corn-laws as a means of raising
revenue, and your proposal is not a vague or general re-
commendation to take the Cora-laws into consideration;
it can be no other than a recommendation to adopt the
tax of Bs. a quarter on foreign corn.—(Hear, hear.)
That was the proposal you made. Do you
adhere to it now, or do you not ?—(Hear,
When.you recommended in your Queen's Speech, in
August, 1841, that the Corn-laws should be taken into
the consideration of Parliament, had your recommen-
dation reference =merely to some -vague and indefi-
nite inquiry into the operation of the Corn-
laws?—(Hear, hear, hear.) Had it reference to the
specific proposition made by you in the month
of May preceding, for a fixed duty of eight shil-
lings upon the importation of foreign corn?
If you say that you are not bound to adopt the fixed
duty of Bs. a quarter, what must be your modesty in
calling upon me to declare what measures I am
prepared to adopt, if you already see reason to doubt the
policy of imposing a fixed duty of Bs. a quarter on the
importation of foreign corn?—.(Cheers.) If VOU
say that the subject is one still open to consider-
ation—that a new Parliament may entertain new
views on the subject—then justify me in main-
taining my present reserve, until I shall be enabled to give
permanent effect to whatever measures I may propose.
But if you, as you must, answer that you meWt by that
recommendation the imposition of an Bs. fixed duty, to
be levied universally on the importation of foreign corn,
without reference to price, then permit me to say that
you owe sonic acknowledgments to myself and to others
who had prevented you from carrying that measure into
effect.— (Cheers.) I may be allowed to say, that if that
had occurred, which at one period seemed exceedingly
likely to occur—if the weather had continued unfavour-
able, and the price of wheat had risen to 90s. a quarter,
and your measure of a fixed duty of Bs. had been carried,
we should probably have now been assembled under

your auspices to seek from Parliament authority to do
away with that duty which you had imposed. If it had
been possible to have carried through Parliament your
proposition at this moment, there would have been a
fixed duty of Bs. a quarter levied on the im-
portation of foreign corn, and I think there
would have been some contrast between the opera-
tion of that duty and the present operation of the law, by
which a considerable quantity of wheat has been admit-
ted, or at least will be admitted, at a duty of ls. a quar-
ter. I cannot but think that circumstances might occur
which would render the levying of an Bs. duty exceed-
ingly embarrassing.—(Cheers.) Now, with respect to
the subject of finance.- The Noble Lord laments that I '
have brought forward no proposal involving permanent
taxation. I regret that the Noble Lord will not take the
decision of the House on the subject.—(Cheer~.) I wish
that he would take that decision.--.-(Cheers.) Having
been en ;aged in the formation of an Administration—.
having had all the arrangements to make consequent upon
the forming a Government—having had to devote some
time to those arrangements—the Noble Lord asks
if we are prepared to bring forward. any measure
for increasing permanently the taxation of the country ?
Now, I ask the House to consider what is the position
I inherit ?—(Loud cheers.) For five years, Gentlemen
opposite held power. -In 1838, or rather I'sheuld say in
1837, the deficiency between expenditure and revenue
amounted to 1,428,0001. In the year 1838 there was a
deficiency of 430,0001.; in the year 1840 the deficiency
was 1,457,0001. In 1841 the deficiency. amounted to
1,851,000.1., making a gradual accumulating deficit up
to the sth April, 1841, of 5,166,000/. In the year
ending the sth April, 1842, it is estimated, and estimated
with lamentable truth, that this deficit in this single year
will amount to 2,500,0001. making a total defielt—anaccu-
mulating deficit (if I maybe allowe to use th-detrase) on the
last five years of 7,666,0001. I come ttl the administra-
tion of finance. I have been in office one month, and I
am asked at once to propose a reraedy for this state of
things.—(Ministerial cheers.) And what lights have I
from the late Government ? If I look to your Budget,
shall I repair the deficiency ? So far from it, I shall
proceed to show, as
,the Noble Lord has provoked me
i”to this discussion, that even if your Budget realised all
your expectations, you must have proposed a vote of
credit in order to make good your calculations—that you
amount in Right Hon. Friend
should, if your most sanguine calculations were verified,
have to propose a vote of credit partaking of the
tihe of at least 800,0001.
vote
which
cFwh(i)alrireasepetele.
propose,
oosfe
,t that
thato
there was to be a deficit of
2,500,0001., you propose your financial measures
repairtol
ti c
Chancellor
timber, this
f dtehfi e increasingc t . You
Exchequerth atot proposeo to diminish the duty
on Baltic
credit for 600,000/.0
Canadian, and the
to be derived from that change. Now I will prove to
the satisfaction of every one of you that not one shilling
of that 600,000/. would be obtained. -Lord Sydenham
has expressly declared, that although concurring in the
general principle of the policy of an alteration in the
timber duties7—and I am not now discussing the com-
mercial policy of the alteration—l am only considering
the financial part of this bearing of the Budget of the
On the Nth of April,
is felt by those engaged
present year t. I rim merely considering, the more limited
:et of any alteration in
question—had I adopted your Budget I should be spared
the necessity in which I ant at present involved.—(Hear.)
iHI
si e4tailri,e what Lord
erlri4toetrsrda„ yaetn Greatl
thenaf
prospect
asrrticm:
de
the duties levied on wood in the United Kingdom, and
which may affect the protection afforded to colonial tim-
ber ; but the question t must be decided by the Imperial
Parliament on the view which it takes of the general in-
terests of the empire." He says, " I conceive that if
any change be determined on that may disturb the pro-
portion that the colonial and foreign timber trade bears
to each other, care should be taken to diminish
as much as possible the loss to individuals by
rendering the change gradual, Its such a course is the
most just as it is also the most politic : bet T -

--r.-- teat wnatever alteration maybe adopted,
the reeormendAtiOn of tlk° CMulltieP 1815, of which
I was fihaieman, will I.)e adheFea to, namely, that the
change glibuld not affect the importation of 'the par,
since that would bear extremely haul on the Cvlortiol

timber. merchant." I turn now to the recommendation

of that Committee, and I find the recommendation
given to which he alludes. The Report of that Com-
mittee is dated, Aug. 1835, and contains the following
resolution :—" That it is the opinion of this Committee
that if such reduction ha made, so far as may be con-

sistcnt with the • interests of the revenue, it

_
shall be made without an augmentation of the
duty on colonial timber," and the recommendation is
" that it is the opinion f this Committee that any alte-
rition should not affect the shipments made in 1836."
That is to say, Lord Sydenham, writing in 1835, recom-
mends that the alteration in the duty should be post-
poned to 1837—(Hear, hear)—and he (the Governor of
Canada) responsible for the peace of that important pro •
vinee strongly advised you to adhere to that resolution
of 18:15. If you had done so, as I believe you would,
is it not clear as day that not a shilling could
be derived from this source to . meet the

deficiency of the year ending April, 1842, and einse-
quently that the item 600,000/. must be struck out of
the estimate ?—(Cheers.) Add this 600,0001. to the
800,000/. referred to, and you have a clear deficit of
1,400,001., for svhich no attempt was made to provi:le.
—(Cheers.) I now come to sugar. Upon sugar 700,00 d
was to be received, and that in consequence of the im-
portation into this country of foreign sugar, on which a
duty of 375. was to be levied, being a differential
duty of 12s. in favour of British sugar. By
this a sum of 700,0001. was to be raised.
_

But such being the reduction in the price of British sugar,
without; the introduction of foreign sugar, I am disposes]
to doubt the statement of the Noble Lord, and that, of

the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that the revenue they
calculated upon would accrue upon the introduction o.
foreign sugar. I have returns of the price of sugar from
the 4th of May to the 7th of September, in the years 1340
and 1841. I believe the average price of sugar during
that time was 56.4.6 d. I have not the exact calculation,

but I am disposed to think: it was more. I will take a
period of six months, and I find the price for each month
to be thus per cwt.:-57s 4d., 565. 9d., 57s op., 58s. ld.,
58s. 4d., 58s. 9d. These were the prices in 1840, and
they were as follow in the corresponding months
in,1841 :-375., 365. 4A d., 365. 2d., 365. 4d., 365. 3d.,345. Bd.
Let them compare the price of sugar for the last two
weeks, ending the 7th of Sept. in 1840 and 1841, and
they would find in the former year the price was 58s. 9d.
per cwt. And in the latter 345. 9d., being a reduction of
24s.—(Loud cheers.) The average price of sugar
since the 4th of May does not exceed 365. Bd., being
subject to a duty of 255. The calculation of the Noble
Lord was, that foreign sugar could only be imported
when the price of sugar in the British market was 61s.
The price of foreign sugar in bond is 225., and the duty
of 375: added to this will make it 595., which will be

further increased by the profits of the retailer. The
Noble Lord was correct when he stated that Gls. was the

•
price at which foreign sugar could be profitably imported.
And here was the British sugar sold at a price not ex-
ceeding what the foreign grower could offer his at in the
British market.—(Cheers.) And that being the case,
and making a deduction for some. quantity of imported
sugar which was brought to market, what became of
the promised 500,00C1. ?—(Loud cheers.) I strike off
500,0001., and I have got 1,400,0001.—n0t in hand—(A
laugh)—but the reverse • and I add this 500,0001. and
1,400,0001. together, and the suns is 1,900,0001., for
which the .late Chancellor of the Exchequer was to

make provision by the laying on of new taxes, or
a vote of credit.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.")
Now then comes the duty upon corn. We were to raise a
duty upon corn to amount to 400,0001., as it appeared in
that Budget. But, in order to justifythe calculations of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, the duty raised from corn
must have amounted to 1,500,000/, from corn alone.
(Here some observation was made in an inaudible tone
by Lord John Russell.) I beg the Noble Lord's pardon
—it may be that lam making a mistake—l am speaking
froM my recollection of former debates, rather than from
any attention which I have paid to the subject of late.
But if I recollect right, the Chancellor of the Exchequer
said, •‘ I will estimate the produce of the Customs in 1841
to be equivalent to the produce of the Custonis in 1840."
Now a portion of the Custom duty of 1840 was 1,100,0001.
raised from corn; and consequently that 1,100,000/ must
be added to the 4,000,0001. for which the Right Hon.
Gentleman took credit in.his Budget ; because, if there
was any deficiency from the 1,100,0001. which was raised
from corn in 1840, there would probably have: been a
corresponding reduction in the Custom duty of 1841;
consequently unless you could raise 1,500,000 from
corn in 1841, the deficit, as I think I have already, clearly
shown, must have amounted to 1,500,00-(llear,
hear.) And however cordial the co-operation iVhich the
Noble Lord may receive from those who sit he.hind'him,
yet, stating what they do with respect to the bread tax,
and the injustice of subjecting to a heavy
‘duty that
which is the subsistence of the people—(Hear,:hear).
can they hear with cordial satisfaction that a part of the
Budget was to levy 1,800,0001. upon corn? And, although
I know it is utterly impossible to expect their concur-
rence—although I know they will say that the prosperity
of trade, and the regularity of commercial transactions
is promoted by a fixed duty on corn ; yet, if I could meet
them privately, and ask them which on the whole they
would prefer when corn was at 735., a duty of Is. upon
its importation, or a fixed duty of Bs., if they could divest
themselves of their political character consistently with
their views, they must make the choice of the is. duty.—
(Hear, hear.) Now, with respect to the deficit of
1,500,00C1. Short as has been the time for considering

the subject, I doubt whether that 1,500,000/., supposing
the present amount of revenue to continue, is, in point of
fact, the whole deficit upon which we may calculate ; and
I am bound to say to the Noble Lord that I think
the prospect of future years far from satisfactory.
The Chancellor of. the Exchequer has struck out of the
estimate for future years the expenditure which in the
present year has been applied to China ,z and the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer said that he thought they could
not be called upon to provide anything like the sum he
had stated for future years. Are these anticipations
likely to be realised ? I say nothing whatever of the
policy of the operations in China, but I do ask if it is
not probable that the demand which will be made on us
in future years for the service of the present, on account
of the Chinese operations, will far exceed the sum of
400,0001. But this is the estimate of the expense of the
Chinese operations :—" China ; estimate of the sum re-
puired to be voted for the year 1841, on account of the
expenses of the expedition in China. The expenses al-
ready incurred, appear by the last returns presented to
Parliament, to have amounted, so far as they can be esti-
mated, to 625,293/." This paper is dated 28th May,
1841, and the period to which it referred was long ante
cedent. I will venture to say that this expense of
625,293/. had been incurred in October, 1840. And now
you have to provide for the expense that has been incurred
in October, 1840. And what are your means of judging
of the amount of that expense ? This is all the informa-
tion we have upon the subject—" No account has been
received from which an accurate estimate can be formed."

—(Hear, hear, and laughter from the Ministerial
benches.) But Ido read in the Newspapers some state-
ments respecting the probable expenses of the Chinese
expedition. There is a letter from Captain Senhouse of
her Majesty's Navy, addressed to Mrs. Noble, and dated
the 10th March, 1841, in which he stated, that " fur
eight mouths we have been exercising unparalleled for-
bearance and kindness to the Chinese, thereby incurring.
an t..xpense of probably the full amount of the remune-
ration we are seeking for." It appears, then, that
a great additional expense must be incurred. I. do
not, I repeat, say a word as to the policy of the
expedition ; I am speaking of the question merely
as one of finance. I am not saying anything
of the subject politically, but I wish to state my opinion
that no prudent Chancellor of the Exchequer, calculating
the future expenses of the country, would omit from his
consideration the probable demand on account of the
Chinese operations.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord
has made a speech calculated not to make a favourable
impression as to my position, and likely to add to the
difficulties which must encompass any man now occupy-
ing office—(Hear, Naar)—but I do not hesitate to tell
the Noble Lord that I look with alarm to the growing
tendency to an increased expenditure in our colonial pos-
sessions. I have here before me a paper which declares
the necessity of taking a comprehensive view of the
civil expenses to be incurred in the Island of Hongkong.
Well, then, here he wants 9,0001. for the present year,
but he hopes the Government will see the necessity of
large and comprehensive views on the foundation of the
new colony. But I come to New South Wales, and I
beg the House to remember that this is the position in
which I find afThirs.—(Cheers.) This is the position in
which I am called upon to estimate expenditure and make
provision to meet it. As to New South Wales, I have
read a despatch dated in January, 1841, from Sir Geo.
Gipps, in which he stated that he had issued a great
number of bounty warrants—no less than to 71,315 emi-
grants, the estimate for which amounts to—what do you
think ? Why, to no less than 970,563L—(Hear, hear.)
The Noble Lord contemplated such a state of things
with great alarm, and most justly rebuked the Governor
for such profuseness. ' The Governor said they were in
New South Wales involved in great commercial difficulty
and embarrassment, but in that they were like the Bri-
tish nation. Bat It will not here be held that the greater
the embarrassment the greater ought to be the expen-
diture. The Noble Lord had most wisely put an end to
the system; but, do what we will, a sum of not less than
560,000/. will be left to be provided for in some way
or another. Let us collie now to South Australia. But
I must hold the Government responsible for employing
instruments who would dare to incur such profuse lia-
bilities. But these are items which tve must provide far—
we must consider—have I not a just right, therefore, to
demand time for their consideration t----(Cheers.) As to
South Australia, Sheik was the desperate condition of
that colony, that even last year we voted 155,000!. for
extricating it from difficulty, and since the Noble Lord
quitted office bills to the amount of 14,000 f have been
presented and protested by the British Treasury; and
from the dates, I feel convinced that more are now on
the way home, and they also will be protested, but I
much feat that we will be obliged to pay both the bills
and the expense of the protest. I now come to Naw
Zealand, and it appears that bills to the amount of
33,000!. have been drawn by the Bank of New Zealand
upon New South WitleS.---(" Hetes" and a laugh), Don't
flatter yourselves that this is all, for there is an Indica-
tion that there are bills to the amount of 54,000 h addi-
tional oh their way.—(llear, hear.) Now I tome to
Canada, for which the estimate of last year was 6,d001,
but since the Budget was .brought forward the credit of
this country has been goaranteed for it loan to Canada
to the amount 0f1,500,000/. I am not questioning the pelicy
of that step, but here is a naw engagement which this
country has contracted. You have, in addition, guaran-
teed an expenditure of 1900001, a-year for fortifications.
—(Lord J. Russell made a remark aft*, the table.)
I was not aware that that had been set 'side, but giving
the Noble Lord credit fer the vigilance with which he
has acted, you r;,es 0;11 consider my position, and say
.
wnotner lam not 3ustiftea in the great apprehension
I have expressedwith regard
to the growing expense of
our colonial establishments, and which will ultimately
fall upon this country?.—.(#ear, hear.) I appeal to any
man, whatever his political opinions may be, whether I
have not 'already preferred an almost conclusive claim