The Sun.
London, England, 1840-03-03 00:00:00

EVENING EDITION.

rest before, and, of course, he could have made no in,
1 spiry respeeting it.
1 Captain PEC HELL wished to make some observa-
tions in allusion to the discussions on the con-
( dition of our Navy which had taken place en a
Hgformer occasion. believed Quit our shipe ooula be
always sent. to sea with their hull enneplernent, whether
we were at wer or in vice, so that the ships might
1 always be ready for any emergency which might arise.
The vessels, for instance, stationed on the coast of
; Africa to capture vessels engaged in the slave-
; trade without being obliged to enter ports immediately
I with their prizes. In saying this, he did not agree with
I the Hon. Member for Bristol in thinking that our
i vessels if ft'-'nt out in their present state would be a dis-
igrace to the British service if they were to coma to an
engagement with the fleets cif Russia or of France
He believed, on the tontrary, that our vessels.
in such a case, would triumph even under
disadvantages as they had hitherto done. He thought,
however, that they shod be put on their full comple-
ment, and he believed that two thousand additional
men would suffice for that purpose.--(Hear, hear.)
Now tl'ets very 2,000 men would complete the ships
that, fiere deficient to their full war complement. He
c'eatensied that it was especially necessary that the
.1 ships on the coast of Africa should have that com-
plement, became in their present state they
were obliged to accompany their prizes into port.
Ho was glad to find that on this occasion no officer in
i that House. belonging to the service to which he had
: huneolf the honour to belong, entertained any doubt of
i the, eourage and the superiority of British seamen. It
.4etd been said that the efficiency of the officers would be
inimpaired .oy their want of confidence in the Government.
But he could assert that no feeling on the subject of
1 PeatrGittge, no party or political failure, would in-
-1 uuerece the officers of the British navy in the discharge
°f their duty. The Gallant Baronet below him (SirT.
froubridge) said that it was a most absurd proposition
( 'to tisaep ships, in time of peace, up to their full w
complement. But he (Capt. Pechell) could not allow
ther
terra absurd to be applied to his proposition, that the
complement of men necessary for the efficient perform-
ance of the duties upon which they were employed should
be kept up in time of peace. He would entreat the Go-
vernment, and especially the Admiralty, to revise the pre-
sent system of manning the ships. A great number of
the =oust efficient men were kept from returning to the
service because their pensions would be forfeited. But
eo temptation ought to be allowed to seduce from the navy
mesa who bad been educated in those ships that were em-
ployed in the instruction of naval gunnery. He wished
she Government would consider the expediency of in-
,:2l-ea.siag the establishment of boys. He knew that on
every station there were hundreds of boys anxiously de-
eirces of enlisting in the service—boys either under or
over seventeen years of age. They would, after having
been to sea some two or three years, be really efficient
seraateu. And the number could be with the greatest
fecifif y increased from 3,000 to 3,000 or 4,000.—( Hear.)
list would say thus much, in regard to our naval force, that
Aso urns not one of those who wished to have what were
sailed experimental squadrons in the Downs or elsewhere,
!To amuse the country. He considered that our real de-
fence must be in the vessels at Lisbon ; and as to the Russian
fleet, he believed it was now quite hard and fast bound,
and need not excite any apprehension.
Mr. PL CMPT R E said that though he spoke as:an un-
professional man, he confessed that from all he heard and
saw, the present state of the eavy of this country was any-
thing but satisfactory. Undoubtedly the terms efficient
and inefficient were relative and comparative ; and consi-
der:el', how dependent this country was upon her navy for
defence, and the strength of other navies, he feared that
:,ores was anything but satisfactory. The Ministers said
that there was generally a peaceable disposition towards
this country. He was hapi,y to find that was the case;
brat who (meld venture to guarantee peace? And he
doubted whether in the present aspect of affairs in Europe
a rupture was the most impossible thing that could
occur. England had hut twenty-two ships of the line;
/Jut in reality he feared it was only seventeen effective,
awl only nine frigates, those, too, of an inferior size.
Russia had two fleets of 21, and 16 ships of the line
',canoe had as many ships of the line in actual commission
HS we had, and 17 frigates, with 23 large war steamers,
whereas Engl:nd had only 16. France too had on the
stocks 26 ships of the line, besides frigates. France had
13 large steamers, and England had only seven, of a
smaller size, on the stocks. This was to him a must un-
'Jr:satisfactory state of things, because when he looked to
'rho sisores of this country, he saw them in an entirely de-
leeceeeei stare. This must be any thing but satisfactory
to the merchants of the country and the community at
3arge,. There was a most excellent letter upon this sub-
'et, written by a Flag Officer to the Duke of Wellington,
which had obtained for him no small degree of odium. In
that letter the writer said that the navy and the commerce
of the country was at present all its trust, and if that was not
kept up the worst results might be expected.
Ha knew very well that without the Divine blessing the
bravery and efficiency of our navy or army, or the wisdom
of our councils, would he of no avail ; but it was necessary,
whilst tru&ing in Providence, to make use of the proper
means; and he considered by keeping the navy in an al.
eient state, whet, compared with the navies of other na-
tions, they would be committing the grossest act of folly,
and betraying the trust committed to their charge. He
thought the present state of the navy was far from whet it
ought to be. ito should give his vote in favour of the in_
ertsa•cd estimate ; and i,ed a still larger increase been pro-
posed he should have been ready to give his vote in favour
of it.

Ln-d J. RUSSELL wss surprised at the allegation of
the Hon. Gentleman, that the navy was at present in a
weal: and inefficient state.—( Cheers.) As a peace esta-
blishment, sad as a peace establishment only, ought it to
be spoken of —( Hear, hear.) He IC AS prepared to con-
r,ufl that it was most etEcient, A considerable sum had
s•lie,l of Parliament for the pnrpoPe of maintaining
it lie a state of efficiency—a surn which the Hon. Member
ire Kilkenny thought too large. —( Hear, hear, from Mr.
House.) This sum was applied with great judg-
ment and skill to purinses for which it was
voted. This was a time t peace—( Hear)—therefOre
they could have no test as to the efficiency of our navy
comp3r,d with that ot foreign powers, as in time of war.
if ttiis country were at war, and found that the navy, when
it came into collision with the navies of foreign powers,
was defeated, then there might be soma reason for contend.
in; taw it was in an inefficient state ; but as long as a state
p=ace continued there could be no opportunity of eom-
parin the efficiency of our navy with that of foreign
power;, and he felt fully assured that if ever the calamity
of war should happen to as, the navy of this country could
not be foiled iaferior to what it had been at other periods
of oar 'aintory.—(Cheers.) With respect to what the
Hon. Gentleman bad said relating to what he called the
unprotected state of our coasts, he begged the Committee
19 remember to what the Hon. Gentleman's plan would
lead if it were fully carried out.—( Cheers.) France had
a large fleet in the Mediterranean, and it was thought not
advisable that our fleet should be less than was necessary
for the protection of our possessions in that sea. Then,
again, Russia maintained a large fleet in the Baltic amount.
ing sometimes, he believed, to as many as 20 sail of the line.
Whets they sent out all the three divisions at once they
might amount to as many as seven or eight and twenty
sail of the line, hut it could not be said that they were to ;
base a fleet in every part of the world equal to that of the
other nations, and at the same time a fleet on their own
shores equal to any number of ships Russia might send
out in the course of the summer ; such a course of po- I
key would be ruinous to the country.—( Hear, hear, hear.)
They were not now upon a war establishment, and were
n t at war with France or Russia, or any one of the Great
Powers of the world ; still less did they require a war eats-
bllshrnent to enable them to contend well altogether.
Their navy was merely on the footing of an amicable tan-

derstanding for the purpose of bringing things to
: a peaceful termination. He was anxious to key the effi-
! dent's, of the nay), but he confessed it appeared to him to be
against the policy of this country to undertake anything so
extren ely injurious as the Hon. Gentleman P uggcs ted ; on
the contrary, he thought it would be said by many that it
would be better to have war at once than io be constantly
with such an armament, and in such a state of suspicion
against other Powers. There had been much discussion
with respect to the manner in which their ships
were manned, and it was contended that they
ought to bare a larger complement of men—
in fart. a war complement. That was entirely a naval
question, and he coald not pretend to give an opinion fur.
ther than what he had collected from those who were best
able to form an opinion. The question practically under
d.scurvim was, whether they would keep up the same num.
her of ships, and give them all a larger complement of
rule, because in that case the expense would be enormously
increased—or whether they should not have—say twenty
line-of-battle ships with the present complement, or seven-
teen wit's a larger complement.—( Hear, hear.)' Now,
from ail he had heard he believed the
present complement'
' was fully sufficient for the duties these
ships and men had
to perform. In time of war they necessarily requiredg
a
fuller complement, under the expectation of
action with the enemy i- bat he believed the complementlnta
at present was nearly as large as they had when th
gin the great war in 1793.---( Hear, hear.) There were
e.
some ships in which a change had taken
place in the form and size—such, for instance, as the large frigate the pique,
in which a change had taken place in the masts,
rigging,'
Sac., which rendered a change necessary, and that I
they should be placed upon a different rating to
that which was formerly established.--( Hear, hear.)
The necessary alterations had been made, and he believed
they had been made with judgment, and a due adaptation
to the condition of our ships. A question had been put
a few evenings ago by a Right Hon. Baronet, with regard
to the present number of men, in proportion to the number
of our vessels. It was true that the number of men was
not proportionate to the number of ships now in commis-
sion, but they had gone on the supposition that some of
those ships on coming home might be paid off, and there
might thus be a reduction of their number. If, however,
it 6benld be necessary to keep up the full number of ships,
they might find themselves obliged to resort again to Par.
liateent, bat the present estimates had been framed with a
view to the actual situation of the country. He had
nothing further to suggest on these topics, but he hoped
1 they would nolonger hear that language, which he believed
was entirely unfounded, with respect to the present in.
efficiency of our navy. If Hon. Members opposite thought
it proper try keep a much larger naval establishment than
lthey now had, he should say that was a question of policy
on which he did not agree with them, and ho thought that
as far as regarded our officers and our seamen, there was
no falling off in that skill and efficiency which they had
*own upon all occasions.—( Hear, hear.)
Sir G. CLERK was glad to hear the explanation
which the Noble Lord had given of what
trimlfyataePs,
pawed to be a very strange circumstance in thceerEtasi
k hp(rvxopeevrer,caotrntphleempreeinteont men
viz., that ships had not their
assigned to them. Looking,
'fit mcptegotiations in the East, he did not think thasttahte `'ffitairst-wotild be a proper moment to make a reductiont ine 4U.'tkailier of our vessels, and particularly in the Medi 4' giiiNti 'He had understood that several of our - iii.
;040.27
ships
411.14,.....0.•