The Sun.
London, England, 1841-03-11 00:00:00

LONDON, TAURSDAY, MARCH ll, 1841.

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PARLIAMENTARY DIVISIO 'S•

(From the rotes and Proceed:7,gs of the Rouse ei Commons.)
TUESDAY, MARCH 9.
SEVERN NAVIGATION BILL. ,
Motion raade, and Question proposed, " That it be an In-
struction so the Committee of Selection, if they see fiti to re-
fer the Severe Navigation Bill to a Select Committee,:"—
Amendment proposed, to leave out from the word " That " to
the end of the Question, in order to add the words " the Pe-
titions which were presented upon Friday last, praying that
the Severn Navigation,Bill may be referred to the Select Com-
mittee, be referred to the Select Committee on Private Busi-
ness," instead thereof :—Question put, " That the words pro-
posed to be left out stand part of the Question :"—The House
divided :

MAJORITY-AYES, 74.
Eaton, R. J. Mackinnon, W. A.
Eliot, Lord M'Taggart, J.
itzalan, ..ord Marsland, H.
Fitzroy, Mo. H. Need!, John'
Forester, Hon. G. Packs, C. W
Gaskell, Jainca Wines Parker, Montague
Care, 0. J. It. Perceval, Colonel
Grimsditch, Thomas Philips, M.
Hale, it. Blagdon Pigot,
Halford, H. Pollock, Sir F.
Hamilton, C. J. B. Round, C. G.
Harcourt, G. S. Rushbrook, Colonel
Hepburn, Sir 'l'. B. Scrope, G. P.
Hodgson, Richard Sotheron, T. E.
Hogg, J. W. Stanley, E.
Holmes, W. A'Court Tennent, J. F
Hope, Hon. C. Thornely, Thomas
Houston, George Vere, Sir C B.
Hughes, W. B. Villiers, Charles P.
James, Sir W. C. Vivian, John H.
Kelly, Fitzroy Walsh, Sir John
Lennox, Lord A. Yates, J. A.
Liddell, H. T.
Lowther, J. N.
Mackenzie, T.
MacKenzie, W. F.

k'Cimrt. Capt. 1.,
Aingworth, Peter
Arbtit knot, H0n.1.1
Arclidall, General
Attwood, W.
AttwoOd, M.
Baillie, H. J.
Baker, Edward
Berkeley, Hon. C.
B•thell, R.
Bolling, W.
Botaell, Ber►ah
Broadley, H.
Broadwood, Henry
Brute, Lord E
Campbell, Sir H. P.
Cholmondeley, H.
Chute, W. L. W.
Clive, E. B.
orry, Right Hon. 11
Dalrymple, Sir A.
Douglas, Sir C.'
Duncombe, I`. S.
Duncombe; W.
Duncombe, A.
East, J. Buller ,

TELL6P%
Gore, 0. W.
Hope, H. T.

Alston, Rowland
Barnard, E. G.
Barry, G. S.
B. wes, T.
Brotherton, J.
Butler, Colonel
Craig, W G.
Davies. Colonel
East hope, John
Ellice, E.
Estcourt, T. G. B.
Ferguson, Sir Robert
Fresnneld, J. W.
Hall, Sir B.
liawes, B.

[NORITY—NOES,
Hill, Lord A. M. C.
Hindley, Charles
Hodges,Z_L.
Hoskins,'M
Inglis, Sir R. H.
James, William
Labouchere, H.
Mahon, Lord
Miles, W.
Morgan, Octavius
O'ConneYl, D.
Patten, Wilson
Pendarves, E. W.
Phillips, G.

40.
Somerset, Lord G.
Slaneield, W. R. C,
Stewart, James
Strickland, Sir G.
Strutt, Edward
Style, Sir Charles
Turner, Edmund
Warburton, H.
White, A.
Williams, W.
Winnington, Sir T.

TELLERS.
Grey, Sir G.
Sanford, E. A.;

THOMAS REEVES.
Petition of Thomas Reeves [presented 4th February] read :
—Motion made, and Question proposed,—" That the Petition
of Thomas Reeves, complaining of the manner in which his
retired allowance had been allotted to him, be referred to a
Select Committee :"—(Mr. Kelly) :—The House divided :

Douglas, Sir C. E.
Farnham, E. B.
Freshfield, J. %V.
Grimston, Lord
Halford, H.
Hepburn, Sir I'. B.
Hodgson, R.
Hughes, W.B.-
Inglis, Sir R. H.
Jones, John

NORITY—AYES,
Lockhart, A. M.
Mackenzie, Thomas
Mackenzie, W. F.
Hiles, W.
Morgan, Octavius
Neeld, Joseph
Pringle, A.
Rae, Sir William
Richards, Richard
Round, C. G.

27.
Itushbrooke,7Colonel
Sanford, E. A.
Searlett, Hon. Y.
Trotter, John
Turner, E.
Vere, Sir C. B.
ivian, John Ennis
TELLERS.
Kelly, F.
Teignmouth, Lord

Baring, F. T.

,JORIT Y—NOES,
Ferguson, Colonel
Gordon, IC
Grey, Sir G.
Hamilton. C. J. B.
Heathcoat, John
Hector, C. J.
Hodges, T. L.
Howard, P. H.
noward. C. W. G.
Hume. Joseph
Humpliery, J.
Lascehles, W. S.
Maule, Hon. k,..x
Muskett, G. A.

Barnard, E. G.
Beamish, F. B,
Blake, W. T.

Broadley, Henry
Brocklehurst, J.
Brotlierton. J.
ISustield W.

Butter, Hon. P.
Childers, J. W.
Clay, W.
Dalmeny, Lord
Duke, Sir James
Elliot, Hon J. E.

38.
Pinney, W.
Seymour, Lord
Stansfield, W. R.
Thornely, Thomas
Troubridge,_Sir T.
Williams, W.
Wood, Benjamin
Wotsley, Lord
Wyse, Thomas
Yates, John A.

TELLERS.
Parker, John
Tufnell, Henry

SPORTING INTELLIGENCE.

MANCHESTER—TUESDAY EVENING.
There was no business done on the Chester Cup this
forenoon worthy of remark. We therefore merely give
the prices as nearly as we can collect them. Several of
the horses, viz. The Potentate, Tubalcain, Retriever, Cow-
bey, Lug wardine, Cruiskeen, Prince Albert, I'm-not-
aware, the Plover, and the Humming Bird, had no admi-
rers, so as to bring them into popular notice. Thus run
the odds—

THE CHESTER CUP, P.P.
15 to 2 agat Mr. Ridsdale's Bloomsbury
12 to 1 agst Col. Peel's Gibraltar—offered
12 to 1 agst Col. Cradock's Gallipot
16 to 1 eget Lord Eglinton's The Young-un
16 to 1 a3st Mr. Orde's Queen Bee
17 to 1 agst Lord Miltown's Cruiskeen
20 to 1 eget Mr. Collett's The Dean--offered
20 to 1 agst Mr. Hornby's Champagne—offered
25 to 1 agst Mr. Price's Prince Albert—offerede
27 to 1 agst Col. Peel's I-am-not-aware
27 to 1 agst Mr. Flintoff's The Plover
30 to 1 agst Lord Eglinton's The Potentate
33 to 1 agst Mr. Collett's Tubalcain—t. 40 to 1
33 to 1 agat Lord Stanley's Rhodanthe—taken
100 to 6 agst Mr. St.
Paul's Calypso
100 to 5 agst Major Hay's Retri,ever
100 to 4 apt Sir T. Strtaley'saCewboy
100 to 6 agst Mr. Painter's Ernest the First
500 to 30 agst Mr. Goodman's Be:lford—offered
400 to 18 agst Mr. Prices Tuley—taken
The fi hi v. 7 ; 11 to 1 bar one, take 8 v. the field.
THE DERBY.—TI•e friends of Morning Star, since Don-
ca ter races, imagined they had a trump card (par-
ticul.rly the Chester gentry and party hen!), and either
by deputy, or otherwise, have nibbled on pretty hand-
somely. To-day, however, 1,000 to 10 find no takers.
These odds wee hid last night, by parties willing to
repeat them, almost to any extent.-15 to Iv. Rosalie,
taken ; 16 to 1 v. Eringo, taken ; 17 to 1 v. Coronation,
offered ; 22 to 1 v. The Knight, offered ; 22 to 1 v. Soult,
offered; 33 to 1 v. Mongolian, offered ; 500 was laid at
evens, on Palmmon v. Soult, the supporter of the former
desirous to double it ; 500 to 30 was accepted very will-
ingly on &big°, and 500 offered in a good quarter Soule
beats any other of Scott's ; 41 to 1 off: red v. any three.
THE RionnEswonTn.-:-At the close, 6 to 4 was laid and
taken, in a good quarter, on Eringo.
THE DERBY.—A few words will suffice. The wise
men front all quarters cannot, in the second week of
March, make out Scott's best,• 15 to 1, at the close, was
taken on Rosalie ' • 16 to 1 upon Eringo ; 18 to 1, would
have bcea, we think, accepted on Coronation ; 20 to 1
w.:s bid, in the be.t of quatt,r,, against any one of the
dreaded stable. There was a great deal of chat about
several hones, but all passed over free from " shot," but
eettdiely with a little smoke,
The Oaks and St. Leger not named. The gentleman
wanting 1000 to 6 (or any part), about naming the three
winners, had it offered in one of the most starling quarter.
in Lancashire.

MR. MARSHALL'S LETTER TO

EARL FITZ WILLIAM.

(The great notice which has been taken of this le
ter in Paili meet and out of Parliament, having con
vetted it into an important historical document, induces
us now to publish it entire, though we noticed it three
uks ago, wliea it first appeared.)
My D, ar Lord Piizr. iiliam,—j-As your Lordship's
very frank and frienely letter addressed to me, declin-
ing to attend the Leeds Reform meeting, and stating
reasons why you do not approve of the objects of our
Association, has been placed before the public, through
the medium of the press, permit me to offer through
the same mcdium a few remarks in reply.
I will shortly state the facts that appear to me,
and to the Reformers in Leeds who have commenced
the present movement, to furnish a strong moral, if not
a demonstrative, proof, that the House of Commons as
now constituted does not fairly represent—does not
harmonize with, the people—as is assumed by your
Lordship.
That is the real pivot of the question before us ; for
however great the change effected by the last Reform
Bill, if it his yet decidedly failed of accomplishing the
objects of its promoters, and of the people whose gene-
rous confidence and enthusiastic support was the great
and decisive power that carried that measure, what
conclusion can we come to, but that the very same
reasons that justified.
n the. commencement of a
revolution, will, a jorizo, justify carrying it out to
its legitimate completion? We cannot remain half way.
Is the Legislature in harmony with the wants, the
interests, the intelligence of our countrymen ? No
logical acumen,
my Lord, is necessary to answer
Calm and dispassionate attention
to the simplest facts are sufficient. What is the
Norway,
hrwathy7
physical, moral, and social condition of the bulk
of the people ? Tliere lies the proof, plain as
though written in sunbeam, of the true character of the
Government of every country.
people ; if we
to Switzerland,
If we look to countries that arc really free, where
there is no doubt about the matter that the Govern-
mentoflook t
od
theoes
Unitedseally States,
lands a happy people, enjoying in peace and security the
whole fruits of their own industry,. in a high state of
aon
tooe
physical ivelbbeing, distinguished by intellectual and
moral culture, subject to no laws but such as are
equal, just, beneficent. Read Laing, read Symons,
test this assertion by the figures of statistics, and it will
come out rigorously true.
Dale you say, my Lord, or can any man of the calm-
est, most impartial, most phi an
mind, affirm, as
matter of fact, that the condition of the people of
England is now that of a free and. happy community,
.
living under equal, just, and mescals' laws?
1 ask and entreat your Lordship first to consider,
and then publicly, deliberately, and fully to give your
own answer to that question.
In the meantime, I Will give mine.—Look at the
condition of the agricultural labourer ; enter his bare
cottage, FCC hire striving to maintainitain himself and family
on the pittance of seven shillings a week. Consider
what are his sad prospects in life, on the very verge of
absolute death by hunger ; a single step, if so much,
out of the poor-house ;no hopes of amendment, of bet-
ter or happier days ; as has been his youth so will be
his comfortless old age. This man, my Lord, now
prostrate, destitute of independence, energy, or hope,
has in him a mind, an immortal soul, a capacity of en-
joyment as large and liberal as your own, and he is of
as much va'ue in the eyes of a Just and Mereiful God,

`as you arc. Have you really done your whole duty
by this your poor unhappy brother, by writing a few
letters on the Corn-laws, excellent as they are—and by
assisting to pass the Reform Bill, " a great measure,"
—and then, regardless bow it really works, giving your-
self up in peace and contentedness to your hunting,
shooting, and other diversions ? Believe me, you have
far more to do yet ; let your manly understanding only
grapple fairly with the subject, and your high sense of
duty will imperatively urge you many steps further. •
Look again at the crowded streets of our great ma-
nufacturing towns, peruse the various statistic ac-
counts by impartial observers of the terrible destitu-
tion, the feasful want, disease, degradation, misery,
physical and moral in every shape, that reign there.
Look at the wan and haggard faces of the work-
people that conic into our Courts of Justice, that at-
tend our public meetings. See hew the very race of
Englishmen is dwindling down and degeneratine
under t':e effects of the unremitting labour, the inset--
ficient and unwholesome food that their country's laws
ellaw them to enjoy. For well you know, my Lord,
that all this misery is of man's ordinance and contriv-
ing, not the work of the beacficeut providence of God,
who like a true parent has provided ample food -and rai-
alent for all his children, if left free to go and earn
them by their own labour.
I have not space to depict one tenth part of the
misery that the cruel laws of our aristocracy heap upon
our people.
It is now nine years since your "great measure" the
Reform Bill passed. What has the Reform Bill done
for the people ?—has it given them bread or clothing ;
has an enlightened Whig Government employed that time
in spreading over the land, into every parish, the great
first requisite, education—intellectual, moral, and re-
ligious, for all the people committed to their charge ?
Oh ! no. Their intentions were excellent, and would
have performed these urgent necessary duties, if, per-
haps, they had been able.
What have they done ? Municipal. Reform, a Penny
Post, and divers other small matters—all very well
in their way, but mere drops of water taken out
of the bucket of national grievances. New Poor-
laws ? Ah, my Lord, when you think of that wee-
sure of stern justice, that was so readily passed, and
then of the deadly Corn-laws, whose repeal was so
doggedly resisted, and which actually murders the
poor people that the Poor-law drives to depend upon
their own exertions, rather than enter the hated poor-
house—yes, I say, deliberately murders them. Can you
take any credit for the two measures coupled together,ss
they ought in fairness to be in judging of our aristocratic
legislation ? Negro emancipation ? a happy, a glorious
measure ! And who by long labour and perseverance
matured and carried this measure? Was it the aristocracy
or the people themselves ? And who paid for it twenty
millions, a nob!c gift ? Why, the people themselves !
What does that great measure prove—does it teach no
moral lesson ? Yes, it proves that even to the poor,
degraded, benighted negro slave, how good, how safe,
bow blessed a thing the et of Freedom is. Good
God ! and we deny freedom to our countrymen, who
paid t venty millions for the freedom of the blacks!
I will go no further ; surely if these facts are correct,
aou I challenge any one to disprove them, here is proof
sufficient that the English people are indeed not go-
verned by just, equal, and merciful laws.
Are the mass of the people in harmony with the Go-
vernment? I think you, my Lord, were present when the
Magistrates' table at Sheffield was loaded with Chartist
pikes : you have not forgotten Newport ; you have heard
how, when the wealthy clasFes at Leeds and Bristol met
to offer the starving people charity, they were met by a
wild fierce cry, " Justice, justice—we want justice, net
charity." The violent and illegal course the Chartists took
has for a time broken up their organization. It would
be a fatal mistake to infer that the spirit of Chartism
is dead, or that all Reformers who are inert and
silent spectators are against the objects of Chartism
and supporters of Whig government. How much
of evil may be dreaded from this spirit pervading
the working class in total separation from, and hos-
flity to, the middle and upper classes, I seed not say.
I would refer your Lordship to some excellent letters
on this subject, published in the Hertford Reformer, in
July and August, 1833, by Dr. Arnold, of Rugby,
than whom no one is more capable of forming a calm
and impartial judgment.
Here is sufficient evidence, I think, of a fearful
want of harmony between the mass of the people
and tbe governing power ; and such, I think, as
justifies the Leeds Reformers in saying that mis-
government so gross, resistance to the clearest
claims of justice and humanity so blind., and ob-
stinate, do urgently call for a Large extoushin ofe.
the franchise, in order to place the people and Go-
vernment really in harmony with each other. The
Whigs are fond of saying, " Wa't—wait—opinion is
ripening; in time the prejudices of these Noble Lords
and large landed proprietors will be removed, and then
the grievances will ha redressed."
Ay, my Lord, butiow would you or I like to starve
for nine years, while these Noble Lords are learning the
A, B, C, of pcl Ceti science ?
The Whigs again, with great inconsistency, accuse
the people of not supporting their measures by pressure
from without : they expect' the people to be more intel-
ligent, and to act on higher principles than the Legisla-
ture, and in the same breath deny them a voice even in
choosing legislators.
" Help, help us, good people, or we sink !" they
cry out one moment. And when the people honestly
set to work to help them in earnest, they change the
tune to—" Softly, softly, good people ; now you tread
upon our heels, now you push us on to our noses!"
Believe ire, my Lord, if the Democracy of Ene-
land is to be guided and conciliated, it must be by far
other modes of policy than this.
It is of the deepest importance that yen, my Lord,
and others of your class, should ponder there things
well ; for they are pregnant with important results
to the peculiar interests of your order, no less than
to that of the whole community. The political prin-
ciples of Aristocracy and Monarchy are now upon
their -trial. If they can succeed in coming to an un-
derstanding with the principles of Democracy, so
that each may be strong and vigorous within its own
sphere, without clashing with the others, then Aris-
tocrecy and Monarchy will live ; and the best, the most
perfect, the most highly organised, the most vigorous
and happiest form of Government will result. For
I fully concur with Guizot, that the general re-
sult of the progress of civilzation and of the
science of Government has been to develope succes-
s:vely new social and political principles, which uniting
with those previously existing, produce a richer, Ist
ire
highly organised, and more perfect form of goveinme .t,
united to the increased intelligence and extended want
and powers of the people.
That new principle ia modern European civiliza-
tion, as De Toqueville has ably shown, is Demo-
cracy. The onward movement of Democracy is
irresistible. They of the Aristocracy and Monarchy
must make their choice of how they will meet it—
with peace or war. Boldly and frankly meet Demo-
cracy, talk to it, study it, understand it, conciliate it,
then on safe and honourable terms you may make
peace and permanent alliance with it.
Stand aloof from it with unmanly fear and suspi-
cionf refuse to speak to it or understand it, treat it
with "mixed hostility, contempt, and dread; then
expect war, and the result a little sooner or a little
later, that Aristocracy and Monarchy with hideous
confusion and fierce violence will be overwhelmed
and swept away. Now the one great common object
of men of all parties, Conservative, Whig, and -
dicel, who, in any just sense of the word, can be said to
be capable of thought, is to continue their efforts to at-
tain this reconciliation of the old political principles
with the new. I profess myself to belong exclusively
to none of those parties, and can:conceive it possible Oat
men of opposite opinions may yet co.operate to attain
a coalmen object.
How ? By just and wise concessions on both sides
in practical matters without any compromise of prin-
ciples. Let us at any rate try, in the first instance,
how far we can agree ; let us not begin with the pos-
tulate that we can never coincide.
Now, my Lord, the object of our Leeds meeting
was to bring the middle classes and the Democracy face
to face, in amicable and conciliatory discussion that
they might talk to each other, see each other, learn
to understand each other. It was the first great
meeting of the kind. And I sincerely rejoice to be
able to say that this first conference has in its prin-
cipal object fully succeeded, and that a great .moral
effect has been produced ; that the middle classes uow
look upon Democracy with more respect, with less
fear, with more sympathy ; that the Democracy is
conciliated, looks upon the middle classes with less
suspicion, and with friendly instead of hostile feelings ;
and that throughout the effect has been to
show how wise and prudent a thing it is to be bold
and fearless in the outspeaking of what is true, and
that the safest of all courses of action is to " Hale
courage to be just." To promote in every possib'e
manner the full discussion of the all-important ques-
tion of a further organic change in our Legislature,
that shall complete and render perfect the work com-
menced by the Reform Bill, and shall bring the Go-
vernment into true harmony with the people, is the
special vocation of our Association at Leeds.
Allow me to say, that should your Lordship favour
any of our meetings with your presence as a guest
or visitor, nothing would afford us a higher gratifica-
tion than to receive amongst us one to whom the
Reformers of ',sects are bound by so many provin-
cial and personal tics, and to afford you the means of
judging of our objects and proceedings, with your