The Sun.
London, England, 1847-05-18 00:00:00

FACTORIES BILL.

1, .rd "VJiAR\CLI I'l presented a petitions from the
inhabitants of Huddersfield with 5,000 siguatures ; a
similar petition from Blackburn with 4,520 signatures,
and a similar petition from Boness, Lancashire.
Lord FEVERSHAM presented a petition from the in-
habitants of Ashton-under-Lyne, signed by 2,301 persons;
also 100 similar petitions from various manufactories in
Oldham and its neighbourhood; also thirteen petitions
from various other places in Lancashire.

The Bishop of CHESTER presented similar petitions
from the clergy of Bolton, Rochdale, and Burnley,
signed by 60; trom the clergy of Manchester, signed by
35; another petition from the medical men of Man-
chester, Bolton, and Rochdale, signed by 141; a petition
from the clergy, medical men, manufacturers, and in-
habitants of Londley, in Yorkshire, signed by 760, also
for a similar purpose.
The Bishop of LONDON presented a petition from
the inhabitants of Warrington and other places, signed
by 1,688 persons, also in favour of the Factories Bill.
Petitions in favour of the Bill were also presented by
Earl St. GERMANS and Earl GREY.

PREVENTION OF PROSTITUTION AND SE
DUCTION.

The Bishop of EXETER presented petitions from
the county of Middlesex and the county of Norfolk,
praying their Lordships to adopt measures for the pre-
Yention of prostitution.
BILLS FROM THE COMMONS.
Messengers brought up Bills from the House of Com-
mons. _ __----___

TOWNSIIEND PEERAGE BILL.

The House then went into Committee on this Bill.
The Bill passed through Committee.
PUBLIC GRANARIES.
The Earl of WINCHILSEA rose to bring forward the
motion of which he had given notice, respecting the ex-
pediency of establishing public granaries. The Noble
Lord, who was very imperfectly heard, was under-
stood to say, that had the Government established
such depots at the beginning of this scarcity it
would have done much to have prevented the present
state of things. It would have prevented the supplies
from being hoarded in a few hands. He however sug-
g( sled that for the future the Government should take
up the matter and provide for the accumulation of
grain in order to supply the working population at re-
duced rates.
Earl GREY said that the question opened by the
Noble Earl was of too much importance to be disposed
of by any incidental discussion, and he therefore ab-
stained from commenting upon it, not because he agreed
with him in his opinions, but from the deep sense which
he entertained of the present state of the country.
a he subject then dropped.
POOR-LAW (IRELAND).
Earl FITZWILLIAM moved for certain returns con-
nected with the rateable districts in Ireland.
After a few words from Lord ELLENBOROUGH,
Earl GREY said that the returns asked for were
already upon the table in another shape, and to place
them in a new one would require so much trouble that
he would desire his Noble Friend to postpone his motion
in consequence of the present pressure of business.
The Earl of FITZWILLIAM denied that they were
in possession of the returns which he asked for. At
the same time he would be most willing to oblige his
Noble Friend.
The Earl of WICKLOW said he would press his mo-
tion for the returns.
After some conversation,
The NOBLE EARL postponed his motion till to-morrow.
FACTORIES BILL.
In moving the second reading of this Bill,
The Earl of ELLESMERE said—ln rising to dis
charge the duty I have undertaken of moving the second
reading of the Bill now before your Lordships for limit-
ing the hours of labour in factories, I should be sorry to
waste your Lordships' time with any prefatory matter
of apt rsonal nature. I must, however, take permission
frankly and briefly to express my regret that a subject
which has of late years excited so much interest and
discussion elsewhere, but which has little occupied the
direct attention of your Lordships sitting here, should
not have the advantage of being introduced to it by some
voice more familiar to your Lordships' ears, and by some
authority to which your Lordships were more accus-
tomed to defer. My apology to your Lordships and
myself consists in the circumstance, that having taken,
in the discussions which the subject has undergone in
another place, a part which, however humble and occa-
sional, was not inconsistent with the task I have now
undertaken, I have been invited to its performance by a
numerous body of those who are directly interested in
the fate of this measure, and who earnestly desire
its success. I must also state that lam act-
ing at the earnest desire of a Noble Friend of mine, of
whom I may say, as was said of certain great men
whose images were missed in the procession of theßoman
triumph, that with reference to this subject his absence
from either House of Parliament makes him even
more conspicuously present to the mind than if he were
present in either.—(Hear, hear.) My Lords, the mea-
sures now proposed for your acceptance have originated
in far different quarters than in the mind of one so little
entitled to your Lordships' attention as myself. They
have originated in the crowded receptacles of human la-
bour; they have been elaborated in the factory and the
alley, amid the whirl of Machinery, and in those long
rows of lodging-houses whiCh grow up around the giant
chimneys of Lancashire and Yorkshire. This Bill has
its root in the stern experience of the husband and the
father. From this lowly, but lam sure in your Lord-
ships' view, not contemptible seed, the idea has mounted
upwards in the shape of such petitions as those which
have encumbered your Lordships' table. Men of higher
education—men whose lives are one professional and
practical exercise of philanthropy—have assisted these
men to the ears of the Legislature by their sanction and
their advocacy: medical men in every branch of prac-
tice, clergymen of every religious persuasion. Spring-
ing from such a source, founded on such a basis of feel-
ing and opinion, it has made its way through much dif-
ficulty against powerful opposition, till it has obtained
the sanction of an influential portion of a Cabinet, of a
conclusive majority of the House of Commons, and, so
supported and recommended, has reached the table of
your Lordships' House. I state these things, my Lords,
not for the purpose of inducing any one of your
Lordships to abdicate your privilege of free discus.
sion or of deliberate Judgment. Latest and least
of the importations to your Lordships' House, I
should be sorry to signalise my first endeavour at ad-
dressing your Lordships by proposing any surrender of
your independence, any infraction of your privileges.
My Lords, the principle of this Bill has been impunged
as involving legislative interference with the rights of
capital and labour. I might slur this objection on the
ground of repeated precedent. lam prepared, however,
if necessary, to contend that I am advocating nothing
inconsistent with the doctrines of political economy at
all. My Lords, I dislike a meddling Government. I
believe with them that for the creation of the greatest
producible wealth in any given community, and, there-
tore, for the widest diffusion of that material well-being
which attends the production of wealth, the policy of
abstinence from legislative meddling is the sound policy,
master manufacturer and the
and, therefore, I think it incumbent on any one who
departs
policylhe
to assign distinct grounds for
operative have both a right, I admit it, to say to me—
h i his justification. from
that
you are interfering with my free action—you are select-
ing mine from a crowd of other occupations, to make it
the subject of experimental legislation. I claim an ex-
planation. I demand an exceptional reason for your
conduct. My Lords, I find that justification, as most of
your Lordships will anticipate, in the inherent, inalien-
able tendencies of that agent which Watt forced into the
service of man as applied to the four great branches of
our textile industry which come under the provisions of
this Bill—l mean the tendency, in the first instance,
to attract to its ministration the labour of those
whom, in respect of age and sex, or both, nature never
intended for hard and continuous labour ; and next, in
its tendency to make that labour continuous, and un-
ceasing, and protracted to a limit of physical and
mental endurance which, in my opinion, no Christian
legislature can see its subjects approach without ac-
knowledging the duty of interfering, if it can interfere,
for their relief and protection.—(Hear.) It is 01 this
ground, my Lords, that, finding as I do, with regard to
these branches of industry, the means and opportunity
of interference, I claim the right to exercise them. I
say, my Lords, finding the means and opportunity, for
this also is an essential element of practical interference,
and is my reply to an argument which, though often
used, is, I think, singularly inconclusive to a course of
reasoning very commonly adopted towards any man
who is hunting down a particular grievance, and which
endeavours to divert his attention by pointing out fifty
other objects of pursuit. My Lords, there is doubtless
enough of abuse, and misery, and oppression in the
world to make a sentimental or flighty philanthropist
fold his arms in despair. My Lords, I invite your
Lordships to interfere with these large collected ag-
gregations of labour, because theory and experience
tell me you can do so with effect—because they
are open to inspection and capable of control
because you can do much to prevent abuse,
and, if the hard necessity arise, to punish it.
I am aware that this very feature of the case has been
alleged as a reason for non-interference. It has been
said that the factory system is the very department of
our industry in which abuse and oppression are most
discoverable, and can least escape detection. We have
been repeatedly told that we take an unphilosophical
view of the effects of the use of machinery; that it is
the great ditninisher of the sum of mental and physical
labour, the fertile source of leisure and contentment, and
that we should be cautious how we meddle with its ope-
rations. I admit these facts; but I demand your Lord-
ships' attention to some further facts connected with the
employment of that fixed and expensive capital
into the scope and effect of which it becomes a
duty, from which, as a legislator, I cannot escape,
to inquire. There is, in my
opinion, no grander result
of human intelligence than a large cotton mill; but I
say this of it, that from the moment its engine is started,
raised by the capital and governed by the will of the
acute and enterprising individual who sits in its office, it
becomes the direct interest of that presiding genius that
its motions should be as unceasing and continuous as
human contrivance can make them, that there is no part
of that vast system of wheels and levers which can
rest without loss, or, in the ordinary and average course
of commercial prosperity, pursue its motions without
gain. The human labour attached hand and foot to that
system for the most part admits not of relays. What
is the natural, the inevitable consequence of this ? Why,
that which has resulted—that with which, step by step,
gradually, cautiously, effectually, and successfully, you
have been endeavouring for thirty years to moderate
and control, in wise defiance of the abstract principles
of political economy. That the strong impulse of gain
is placed in direct and dangerous antagonism with the
claims of humanity—that it almost invariably prevails

in the struggle—(Hear, hear)—as for a time it was
left, and it lett to itself, it reduces a part of your popu-
lation to the condition of slavery, unmitigated by that
interest in the physical i)g of the party which
does operate on the slave-own,r of Carolina, or the
owner o a heck o 1 a hunt.: 1,, Leicestershire, or Ritt n
row.—(Cheers). My Lords, such things have been ;
to prevent them you have repeatedly interfered and
your labours have net been in vain. Now, my Lords,
does the same reason hold good with other departments of
human industry in which machinery of human contrivance
is less concerned? I say machinery of human contrivance,
for I hold that, in some sense, the earth itself is a ma-
chine, that the clod of the valley, in which you drop
the germ of future vegetation, is as much a machine as
that in which you deposit your portions of raw cotton to
be twisted and elongated. In another place, my Lords,
I took the liberty, at the risk of some offence, of telling
the lords of the soil that in this point of view I consi-
dered them as master manufacturers, and I re-assert that
opinion here. Your Lordships, in the management of
hereditary estates which have descended to you from the
Conquest, are working with machinery as well as Mr.
Greg or Mr. Birley ; but, my Lords, there is this dif-
ference between the machinery of God's contrivance and
that of his creatures. The earth will work alone, in the
silence of night, under the stars of heaven, unlit by your
gas, utifed by your fires, admitting at intervals, which
nature indicates, the regulated assistance of man, taking
him into partnership, but with no direct tendencies to
make him its slave.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) Such,
my Lords, are the considerations which have induced
me to overcome the repugnance I individually enter •
tain to meddling with concerns which, from their mag-
nitude and complexity, I dread to approach.—(Cheers.)
Two main objections haie been taken to the measure,
two principal and widely distinct consequences have
been held out as certain to ensue. It is said, that by
striking off a twelfth from the time during which, when
employment is rife, you are at present able to labour,
you will either diminish wages or incur defeat from
foreign competition. For the first of these consequences
I have always advised those with whom I had been in
communication to be prepared, and I have certainly
always received the answer that, to the best of their
ability, they had counted the cost, and were prepared, on
behalf of themselves and their families, to encounter it.
I am not fond of prophesying in matters of this descrip-
tion, but if, on the one hand, I am not prepared to risk
the miserable value of my reputation for accuracy on a
calculation of the exact effect upon wages, on the other,
I ask any man to favour me with a calculation of the
amount of actual domestic economy which may be
effected by the mother of three children who returns to
her home two hours sooner than at present. I cannot
calculate this, because I cannot sew, I cannot darn, I
cannot wash, and I cannot cook. On these matters I
must refer your Lordships to your wives and servants.
Still less can I calculate the evanescent quantities, the
moral effects of leisure and repose to the mind, or lay
down in advance statistical results on bodily health or
longevity. I have no doubt whatever that the average
sum total of these elements, if they could be calculated,
would show a set-off to any probable diminution
of money wages, which will one day be satis-
factory to those who have co-operated in passing.
this measure.—(Hear, hear.) On this subject I must
also call your Lordships' attention to another circum-
stance—the deductions now made when the work is
brought in by the operative for waste and spoil. My
Lords, from such information as I can obtain, it is my
firm belief that nine-tenths of that spoiled work occurs
in the last weary hours of the operative's present aye •
rage toil. I have never met with any man, of any class,
conversant with the subject, who has not laid much
stress on this circumstance. I pass, nay Lords, to the
question of foreign competition. I do not profess to
receive with indifference, from men for whose station,
acquirements, and abilities I have profound respect, their
warnings on this subject ; but I am consoled by the re-
flection that no step has been taken in this matter which
has not been preceded by similar warnings of ruin and
similar threats of emigration to those which, I doubt
not, have assailed many of your Lordships as they have
assailed me. And yet, my Lords, I hold in my hand a
paper which shows that England has yet held her own
against the competition of the world, and which leads
me to think that if she is doomed to suffer decay, it will
originate rather in a diminished supply of the raw
material than in any legislation which, for the sake of
the highest interests of humanity, your Lordships may
have consented to adopt. My Lords, I believe that from
a concourse of circumstances peculiar to the character of
this nation, England is in a condition to set an example to
the world in this matter. as she has done in others—that
she is able to do right and fear not; and more than this, that
her example will be followed, and that foreign statesmen
who may not be disposed to follow it will be pressed by
that influence of public feeling and opinion which is
acting upon ourselves.—(Cheers.) My Lords, in the
course I have taken in accepting the conduct of this Bill
I have undertaken a grave responsibility for its eventual
consequences. Should it prosper to the extent of my
hopes and expectations, and should I live to see that
result, I reserve to myself, as my sole but all sufficient
reward, the gratification of that spectacle. Popularity
I have not sought, and utterly disclaim. If that reward
should eventually fall due, it is impossible that the intel-
ligence and justice of the people should not place the
saddle on the right horse. It will be due, in the first
instance, to my Noble Friend—it will be due to the
master manufacturer, who has not allowed himself to be
swayed by considerations which would place his own
interests in seeming, though, as I believe, delusive con-
trasts with those of others. It will be due to those who
have worked through the long hours of this Bill in the
workshop of the Legislature, and not the labourer of the
eleventh hour, who now begs your Lordships' pardon
for so long trespassing on your Lordships' attention.—
(Cheers.)' The Noble Earl concluded by moving the
second reading of the Bill.
Lord FEVERSHAM said that in seconding the
motion of his Noble Friend who had just sat down, he
wished to make a few observations upon this measure
generally, A considerable body of the industrious and
well-disposed operatives, men in favour of this measure,
from a desire not only to avoid the present severe labour
and its sudden alterations, but from a conviction that it
was a measure which must eventually result in the ad-
vancement of their interest--by their eqalising the
amount of labour to be distributed amongst them, and
rendering their employment more constant. The ques-
tion of wages was one which had induced many to
stand forward in opposition to this measure, who ap
proved of its regulations as being likely to benefit the
working classes. It was possible that the rate of
wages might be reduced, but that would be coun-
teracted by the greater certainty of employment.
This Bill had been brought into the other House by a
gentleman who was himself deeply interested in the
manufactures of the country. Mr. Fielding had spent a
long life in the cotton manufacture, and during the
course of that life he had most materially benefited the
working classes, and he had brought forward this men
sure with a view of adding one more benefit to the many
he had conferred upon the working classes. The
opinions of this gentleman were supported by a very
large number of those who were also engaged in the
various manufactures of the country, and who had
equally the welfare of the operatives in view. The
Noble Lord then proceeded to refer at a considerable
length to documents which showed that from the year 1819
to the present time the provisions of this Bill had been mat-
ter of agitation, not only amongst the class whom it more
immediately affected, bat in the Houses of Parliament.
and since that time, up to the year 1847, the consumption
of cotton had increased nearly at the rate of 400 per
cent. ln seconding the motion for the second reading
of this Bill, he was not aware of what reception he would
meet with from the House and from her Alai esty's Go-
vernment, but he hoped that a measure, which was so
perfectly consonant with all recognised principles of po-
litical economy. and so well calculated to benefit the
working classes, would not be otherwise than favourably
received.
Lord BROUGHAM said that he was very sorry to
Oisturb the unanimity of feeling which had appeared
upon this question during the evening, by an expression
of dissent from the measure before them. He was glad
to see so large an attendance of the Right Reverend Pre-
lates, as this matter was one, in the discussion of which
they ought to be more than usually interested ; and
he trusted that he should be enabled to lay before
them such views of' this question as would perhaps
induce them to consider it maturely before giving an
assent to it. The question was not one which was
merely affecting the interests of the manufacturer—it
affected the condition of that great body of men who
laboured for the support of these manufactures, and with
whose condition and labour he had, ever since he had
had the power of reasoning, maintained that they had
no right of interference. There were no mysteries of
political economy in science connected with this ques-
tion, for if any man who had formerly worked twelve
hours a day were restricted to ten, it was nothing but
common sense to believe that suck a step would have
the effect of increasing the price of manufactured com-
modities. He could not too highly deprecate the
conduct of any man who volunteered to meddle with
this vast subject, which effected thirty-seven millions
of the trade of this country, and assure the world
that he was so confident of its theory that he had
no doubts of its future success. There was no question
which required more citation and slowness of action than
this. It required the deepest and acutest circumspec-
tion to deal with it ; and for any man to dare to assert
that there could be no soundness of the principles of the
measure was really surprising. At the present moment,
the manufacturing districts were overstocked with
labour—they Were overwhelmed with an immense body
of destitute children—and their Lordships ought, there-
fore, to be the more cautious in the steps they took
with regard to the intermeddling policy. It must not
be supposed that he was the advocate of the mill-
owner. On the contrary, he was speaking for
those whom the millowner employed—namely, the
labourers ; and on their behalf, and their behalf
alone, ho warned their Lordships of the direful
consequences that must inevitably follow the adoption
of this measure. There was, however, no ground to
justify their Lordships adopting it. True, they had in-
terfered to a moderate extent already, but then that in-
terference was to get rid of a crying evil. Here, how-
ever, there was no such cause to justify the interference.
There were no charges of cruelty brought against the
millowner—there was no overworking of the labourer.
He was satisfied with his present situation, but the pro-
moters of this Bill knew better than he did himself, and
told their Lordships that he was not only overworked
but excessively and cruelly overworked. Their former
interference was in defence of children to prevent their
being unduly employed at night, but the present Bill
was not to protect the labourer but to destroy one-sixth
part of the total manufactures of the country. That
was the real object of the Bill, or at all
events it was 'the direct tendency of the measure, and
he put it to their Lordships whether they were prepared
to strike such a blow at a branch of the trade of the
country, which exported upwards of 70,000,0001. per
annum, and employed upwards of a million of people.
Surely such a step must considerably reduce the wages
of the labourer, and yet it was said that the Bill was

for his protection. For his protection, indeed ! Why,
he had been told upon the best authority, that if the
steam-engine of a mill were stopped fer repe'rs, but f
a ft •-. moors, it had a eyisiderable c-flect upon the v,a!-.r., s
of the labourer. The labourers in manuf7v,tories wt old
every that
labour, and by the present Bin toe wages would undergo
a very material diminution. More than one-sixth also
was taken from the master's profits, and if the profits of
the masters went away, the wages of the man must
follow. He had no doubt but if this Bill were persisted
in they should have ere long to retrace their steps. The
argument of his Noble Friend who had just sat down—
that manufacturers were at present compelled to work
only six, seven, and ten hours per day—was no argu-
ment at all in favour of the Bill. The present distress
in the manufacturing districts was very great, but that
surely was no reason why they should endeavour to per-
petuate it, which would be the effect if the present
measure became law. "To belay" things, as the sailor
termed it, and make no effort to change them for the
better, was not the way to secure the prosperity of the
manufacturing interest ; and he apprehended if
they placed restriction on the hours of labour
they would be only confirming the existence of the
present state of things. He would ask their Lordships
would the Americans, the Dutch, or the Swedes, follow
their example? No, they would not; but the conse-
quence would be that not only those nations but the
French and other continental nations would be stimu-
lated to increased exertion, and would eventually suc-
ceed in driving them from their own markets, and anni-
hilate the manufacturing and commercial superiority of
this country.--(Hear, hear.) With regard to the moral
effect of this measure he would observe that poverty and
distress was as fatal to the mental and moral as it was
to the physical condition of the people. Now, by taking
off one-sixth part of the profits of the manufacturers,
there could be no other result than a dimi-
nution of the bodily comforts and circumstances
of the working classes. (Hear, hear.) The
consequence of this would be poverty. And no more
effectual means could be desired to secure the moral
degradation of the people. He certainly did think
there would be much more good sense in an eight
hours' Bill, than one for ten hours. The principle was
the same, and the probability was greater of effecting
the object they had before them. The man who had
worked ten hours was so fatigued as to be unable to
attend to what was intended to enlighten his mind.
—(Hear) He (Lord Brougham) had had experience
of that for twenty-five years, during which he had en-
deavoured to educate the labouring classes, and had been
successfully defeated by sleep.—(Laughter.) But the
most remarkable thing was that all the good was to be
obtained at the sacrifice of one-sixth of the working
man's week's wages. Mr. Arkwright, a gentleman who
possessed four mills in the North Riding of Yorkshire,
having heard that his men were agitating short time,
made a proposal of short time to his workmen. The
first and largest mill decided for the long time ; the
second, by a large majority, chose the long time ; and
the third and fourth decided for the short time. He put
one at least of the mills on short time, according to their
own election, but they had not been long under the new
arras gement till they discovered that there was a dimi-
nution of their wages. This was a new fact, and they
re-considered their choice. But there was another au-
thority against this Bill. The House of Commons had
sent up the Bill backed by a majority. In theory it was
to be reckoned the same House of Commons. Well, in
March, 1844, the Twelve Hours Bill was rejected by
a majority of three ; shortly after they rejected
a Ten Hours' Bill by a majority of 7—not the same ma-
jority ; and they would neither have the Ten Hours nor
the Twelve Flours' Bill, and the Eleven Hours even had
not yet been heard of.—(Laughter.) The 3d of May
came, and the Ten Hours' Bill was again rejected by a
good workable majority of 137. But the year 1846 came,
and with a split in the House. The Corn Bill had been
passed, and the land-men and the wool-men were pitted
one against another. A measure affecting corn had been
carried, and the other party were now determined to turn
against the mills. A short period of three years got a
majority of 108 for the second reading ; such was the
unaccountable change. And was this the time when the
House of Commons should come to such a conclu
sion ; a time when everything was threatening,
and food riots were occurring in the country ?
Was this a measure to enforce in the present state of
things, when in our country, the other day, 200 special
constables were sworn in, in consequence of the food
riots; when the people were craving for employment and
food, was this the time, upon speculation, upon
shadows, and upon fantasy, to pass a measure which
would curtail the four great and staple manufactures of
England? Nothing could injure or curtail manufactures,
or in the slightest way injure ;hem, that did not, of ne-
cessity injure man. The wool trade was one of the four
that was to be struck at by this Bill. 240,000 tons were
grown, and they were about to cut off one-sixth part of
the labour upon it; and would not that, of necessity, cut
down a part of the labour. He had heard the speeches
of the Noble mover and seconder of this measure, and
they were characterised by an absence of all personal
reflection, and therefore his observations did not apply
to them, but to less wise men elsewhere. A
measure to be worthy of the sanction and
adoption of the Legislature, and, to be
useful must combine beneficence with benevolence.
The execution of good was as essential as the will to do
it, in order effectually to benefit those for whom it was
designed. There were, he admitted, thousands of poor,
hard-worked, half-famished men engaged in the manu-
factories, and they all wished to remedy their sufferings,
but their reason should be convinced of the efficacy of
the measure they adopted before they passed it. They
should nut pass it because their feelings of compassion
were roused without seeing clearly that that which was
offered to them as a remedy would really have the effect
intended. He had himself seen the toils of these unfor-
tunate men engaged in agriculture. He had seen them
returning to their homes worn out by sixteen or seven
teen hours of labour, with garments drenched with per-
spiration, without even the comfort of a change of
clothes, or the comfort—to them a luxury—of fuel. He
had seen these, and was not the condition of the hardest
worked factory labourer to be envied by such men as
these ? Their physical existence was affected, and a
man employed as a farm labourer was at the age of 45
as infirm as a man of 70 in the upper classes of life; and
if they spoke of unhealthy employment, why did they not
turn their attention to other occupations far more delete-
rious and destructive than that of factory labour. There
were the workers in steel and brass, who lived in an atmos-
phere filled with the filings of the metals upon which
they worked, and who died at early ages from diseases
engendered by it. Why did they not pass such a mea •
sure with regard to them? Why, it would be to them
as it was to the factory labourers, an act of the grossest
and most cruel injustice ; and yet the workers in brass,
from the time of Tubal Cain, downwards, were destroy, d
by their occupations. It was upon all these grounds,
and with many apulogieselor having so long detained
them, that he asked theni: W refuse their assent to the
Bill, and moved that it be read that day six months.
The Bishop of LONDON said that he felt that he
laboured under a great disadvantage in following the
Noble Lord who had just spoken ; but he felt bound to
express to their Lordships his entire concurrence in the
measure which they had then under discussion, and
which had been so ably attacked by the Noble Lord who
had just sat down. He gave his assent to the measure
without the smallest feeling of doubt upon his mind
that the grounds upon which it was proposed were
unsafe or unsound.—(Hear, hear.) Ho was ready
to admit as a general principle, that they should not in-
terfere with the free competition for labour ; but there
were circumstances which might warrant such an inter-
ference, and render it necessary. He thought that it
was the duty of a Government to protect the interests
of any large class of the community when it was likely
to suffer, and to remove, as far as it could, any evils
which pressed upon them unnecessarily. It was with
regard to the large body of children employed on fac
tory labour, that he thought this measure most parti
cularly deserving of their Lordships' attention. The
physical condition, and the moral condition of the
children were objects to which their attention ought to be
directed in whatever occupation they were engaged.
The Noble Lord had painted to them in glowing colours
the miseries suiThred by the agricultural labourer, but
he (the Bishop of London) thought that the picture was
overdrawn. The agricultural labourer could breathe
the pure air, and see the clear light of Heaven, and he
could at any time suspend his toil—even though it were
only for a few minutes—so as to prevent that exhaustion
of strength and spirits which continuous labour would
necessarily entail. The factory labourer, on
the contrary, was shut up in a close factory,
and could not rest for a moment. The ma-
chinery was kept continuously
motion; for a given
number of hours, and a
upon the labourer ;
debilitated
spirit, the
given aimnomunot of work was to
be done. This had its natural effect
and was marked by the exhausted
fact, notorious to
frame, and the early death.
d number of deaths.average
fearfully increase
The
the manufacturing districts,
all in the manufacturing dislttriwctass, the labour ourenuseddua.
ration of human life, in
et
lhaes
sfeasc.t o
Thislabourerso t than
the
with the children employed,
amongst half
the
only evil which a
st hh oe
arose;
ot
oes rep
e. amongrfatri
,v e
" was the consequence. e ore ey reac e the
not only physical wealiness, butßafwantthof meuthaldcul-
ovation
age of thirteen, they might, perhaps, be sent to an
evening school ; but after thirteen a double amount of
labour was thrown upon them, and their physical
powers being too much exhausted during the day, to
admit of their attending an evening school, they lost all
that they had learned. It might be argued that this in-
terference would—pro tanto—injure either the working
classes, by reducing their wages, or the property of the
manufacturer. That argument was not borne out by
the facts which had already existed ; for the former
Factory Bill had produced neither any serious di-
minution of the produce of woollen goods, or in
the wages paid to the operative.—(Hear, hear.)
His Noble and Learned Friend had told their Lord-
ships that the adoption of this Bill would considerably
reduce the manufacturing produce of the country. Now
it was a well known fact that from the best and purest
motives a large number of mill-owners had long ago
prescribed the short hour system in their own esta-
blishments with the greatest success. Now was that a
sufficient answer to the argument of his Noble and
Learned Friend. In his own humble judgment it was,
for he could not believe that the mill-owner to whom he
had allud.al could be so blind to their own interests
as to continue the system they ha 1 commenced

if it reduced their trade: Now, the truth was, it had
produced no such effect. It had improved the condition
of their labourers, both in mind and body, and the result
had been that the former productions of their mills had
not been reduced by the disinterested step they had
taken. There could be no doubt that, at the present
moment, the manufacturing interest was suffering from
the severest privations, and yet the labourers employed
by that interest, were patient and contented under their
sufferings, and he was therefore glad, that in
supporting this measure, Government had showed
that they sympathised with them in their sufferings. In
conclusion, he had only to assure their Lordships that he

believed this measure would add to the influence of this
country, and improve the sons of toil, aed it was upon
that ground he supported it.
The Duke of RICHMOND would not has had
it not been for one or two remarks which hod fallen Iroru
his Noble and Le abed Eli ..o had addressed their
Lordships at so much length. His Noble and Learned
Friend had told them that the majority of the mill
owners were opposed to this Bill. Now that was not the
case. The mill-owners were supporters of this Bill,
and although he entertained the utmost disrespect
for the mill owners or the Anti-corn-law Leagtte's
support, he cordially agreed with them in supportn3:g
this measure. His Noble and Learned Friend bad told
them that an agricultural labourer was not so strong as
any one of their Lordships who had reached the age of,
seventy. Now, if his Noble and Learned Friend wished
it, he could produce an agricultural labourer from
Sussex, of forty-five years of age, who would carry any
one of their Lordships upon his back without any diffi
culty, and in his opinion few Noble Lords could sworn'
plish such a feat as that.—(Great laughter.)
Lord CLARENDON felt constrained to oppose this
measure, because he felt that it would oppress and
injure those who were to be benefited by it rather
than improve their condition.—(Hear, bear.) 1314
he felt that it would not only be attended
with that result, but it would inflict a serious Wall
upon the trade of the country. Besides, there was no
case of cruelty or injustice on the part of the emploYF
made out for this Bill, and considering that at this
moment the factory labourer did not on the average work
more than eleven hours per day at very easy work, he
thought there was no necessity for their Lordships fur.
ther interfering in the progress of the trade of the
country. There could be no doubt that the Bill, if it
were passed, would materially reduce the manufac-
turing productions of the country, and it Must'
therefore, of necessity, reduce trade, and see'
ing that, as in former instances, there was no
crying evil to be put down by the Bill, he could
nat conscientiously give it his support. But be-
fore their Lordships gave their assent to this Bill, it
was their duty to consider what effect it would have
upon other branches of trade than manufacturers. la
2 the first place, a reduction of the hours of labour, front
twelve to ten hours, would largely reduce the consular
tion of coal in this country. It would also reduce the
consumption of tallow, wool, and many other similar
articles of manufacturing consumption, besides reduelayi
the amount of shipping employed by this country.
f.
was, therefore, almost impossible to calculate the
~„ii`‘
w
jury the passing of the Bill would inflict upon ""
country. This country did not depend upon the
greater number of hours which her labourer;
worked, in competing with the foreigner,
upon the superiority of her machinery.—e but
llear')
Well, then, if the working of that machinery were to be
reduced, what a serious effect it would have upon till
red
export trade of the country. He, therefore, imph
their Lordships not to be led away by an impression that
in passing this Bill they improved the condition of the
labourer, because it was clear, that if it reduced the trade
of the country, it must, as a necessary consequence,
minish the wages of the manufacturing labourer.
He thought the present time was not favourable for this
experiment. He agreed with the Noble and Learned
Lord that the operatives were not favourable to the Bill,
and that they had never asked for it. There were mills
at present working six, eight, and ten hours a deli
and among the manufacturing population, this state
things was by no means satisfactory. Let them apply
the rule proposed by this Bill to other classes in so-
ciety as well as manufacturing. Let him ask their Lord
ships how they would like an Act of Parliament cella•
pelting them to dispense with the sixth of the labour _OO/
their domestic servants ? What did they think of the
Legislature enforcing them, then, to accept the sixth.:
the labour of their own agricultural labourers ? Let him
ask the Noble Duke opposite how he would like such a
proposition ?
The Duke of RICHMOND could see no reasonable
objection to it if the half of the agricultural labourers
died from excessive labour—(Hear, hear.
The Earl of CLARENDON said that
that wagsie°.
assumption in which he could not agree with regard ...-
the manufacturing population. He deprecated lat.,
ference with the income of the poor man. 7e,
this measure they were interfering with bins, and Iles
inflicting the most serious injury to the working clas
of this country. For these reasons, therefore, he Weal
record his vote against the measure.
The Bishop of OXFORD would state
which induced him to give his vote in favour oaf
messure before the House. It was contended that the
supporters of this Bill were driving the manufacturers
the country abroad, and that they were interfering with
the legitimate property of the manufacturers.
cs-Di the
how did the case stand ? Why, this very es,
manufacturers themselves—had, to the extent 0I",7-._
thirds of their number, petitioned in favour of the
measure. He denied that the Bill was an interference
the reasons
with the legitimate profits of business. It was only an
interference with unsound and injurious speculation.--
(Hear, hear.) It was nothing but an assumption
that one-sixth of the income of the working classes
would be taken away by the measure. He himself put
that proposition to some working mechanics, and was
told by them in reply that that was the argument of my
Lord Brougham.—(Laughter.) But what was their
answer to it. They said that they could not admit its
truth, but even if it was so they could not see their
children growing up with their bodies wasted and their
minds injured even to save that one-sixth of their
income.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Earl told them that
they exported thirty-seven millions of goods annually,
and that by the present Bill they would be cutting off
one-sixth of that amount. He thought that the asser-
tion of the two last hours of the day's labour being the
only profit of the manufacturer was incorrect, and was
based upon too nice a calculation. He believed that
these last two hours were not hours of profit, taxing se
they did excessively the energies of the poor creatures
who were engaged at those factories, and that they were
rather a drawback than otherwise on the labour of
the rest of the day. Those who knew their own lute-
rests had taken this view of the matter. The Messrs'
Marshall of Leeds, for instance, had cut off one of these
hours, and had reduced the time in their factories to
eleven hours. In the case of another firm, which had
taken an account of the work done for five weeks before
a reduction of the hours of labour, and five weeks after-
wards, it was found that more work had been done dun.
ing the ten hours than during the twelve.—(Hear, hear.)
bvye very
the c
lateoun tesripr a rRt a obfe r
tt hri az
Peel, in
a IbBelesa
ug,
bAroniehatsufrowa
measure,
to obtain for it the sanction of the Legislature:
andthe
publicfrom
thatmind, time
andto
frequent the
atrsht presenteeesrusliat,b attemptsoi t had had been
They had already made several preliminary steps which
agitatinge made
might serve to give them some experience of the opera-
tion of the Bill. They had passed a Bill against women
working in mines. That was against much opposition;
but the result had been with increased good effect, both
to the women themselves, the subjects of that legislative
measure, and to the masters of those mines. They had
passed a Bill limiting the time to twelve hours in those
very factories, and the result had been so far
beneficial. The result must be good. The wail'
of the measure was evinced by dire effects
on the physical and moral condition of the
labourers.—(Hear.) It became then not a question of
wealth or loss. Wealth so gained was unlawfully
qagained,buleesttioo question
mafnpfdotsthehee
trNhe
efoobrleetßh
amountae
Earl
i (eocgfilsallraaetbnuodruoernc2)o.ulTduhneaotat
nswasanwsce sanction
it by refusing to interfere. But why were the capitalists
that the alternative offered them was no work at all?
Long hours or no work—such was the alternative, the
tsilih.loiieru)pewlsds,taatptlyhitriCae:ol:gnpillfr,:ailrintttefhisdVtett,erh,defestoioohhrrffuiepaLeirsrttorehryddadniotsutnobiptthe needy workman, and
swdhiicinhnnote interfere, were
were
they to retrieve themselves ?—how, but by com-
bining_jauWnr thelabouring
evils? Were they prepared to encounter these, or to drive
classes—from
their shores to a foreign land? On what did their stspe"
riority as a manufacturing nation rest ? On these two
theairtteLadoaren;
choose ?
things—the security in this country of all vested pro;
perty; and, 2d, the physical strength of the people, and
their patience in attending upon machinery. Were they
prepared to drive the population to that extremity that
the manufacturer should be in dread of seeing his Pre"
perty in flames; or to countenance a system which as
certainly reduced their physical strength as it existed,
and thereby to cut off the right hand of their strength
and their greatness ? He trusted their Lordships would
better consider the results of their decision ere they came
to a vote upon the Bill.
Lord BROUGHAM explained.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE—The question before them
now was not a new one. It was important, and it had
occupied an important space on the attention of the
Legislature ; it had come before them in 1801 ; it had
been taken up again in 1815 ; it was again before Par-
liament in 1831, in 1844, and 1846. During all that
time public opinion had grown ; the votes of the other
House of Parliament and public sentiment had botti
progressed, till, when the Bill was before the other
House of Parliament, petitions were presented with
178,000 signatures, while only something like 1,000
were sent in against it. The Noble Lord, who spoke
throughout in a very low tone of voice, concluded by
stating that he would support the Bill.
The Bishop of ST. DAVIDS regretted to rise at that
late hour of the night, or to weaken the effect of the elo-
quent and tender address of the Right Rev. Prelate who
had preceded him. But some things had struck his mind
with great power, and he hoped he might be allowed
shortly to address their Lordships. He agreed witla
many things which had fallen from the Noble anti
Learned Lord, and yet he felt compelled to give his voter
in support of the motion by the Noble Earl (El-
lesmere). There was one thing which fell from,
the Noble and Learned Lord which seemed to him to
have no foundation whereon to rest. He said that this
was a subject on which legislation could not interfere.
Why ? On what did he rest the assertion ? Was the
Legislature a body lessfree from sinister motives,ormere.
likely to be moved by a bias ? Did the Noble and
Learned Lord say so on the authority of what he r
con-
ceived to be the principles of Political Economy nr
What was the principle of Political Economy
Why, that the Legislature should not in-
terfere 0
with free industry. But here lay
fallacy. It was assumed that industry was
In going back into the history of the factory syf?i,!.;
they could not deny but that great abuses bad exisrt
and that many of the manufacturers had not done_etnl"o!
towards the working population which was desirabl_o a_
their part to do. No doubt circumstances had they
much to cause them to pursue the course which
had done ; but on that very account he thought that
in
terference was required, in order to put an end to the
evils and abuses which existed in the system. In the
to follow
course of the present debate, the Noble and Learned
Lord Lord opposite (Lord Brougham) had endeavour
alarm them with a fearful picture of what was
it the measure passed—that wages would be redhead,
would fall, and general distress overtake ! a
JI
o_l3redhead,uufacturing districts. Now to that he (the Bleb P u

A