The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-28 00:00:00

g9IEVENING EDITION

sent Parliament, but I believe a great number, upwards that country in which we ought never to have stood.
of a hundred. But the vast majority, I would say, in With respect to our relations with America and France,
many cases, the same person has been returned, and in I still retain my opinion, and believe if there had been
Isome cases persons entertaining similar views. But this earlier interference that what had taken place would
state with confidence that in 20 elections in which the have been avoided. I feel most deeply our alienation
former Member has been changed—in large towns—in from France, and deeply regret it ; and without entering
agricultural constituencies—in every description of con- further into the different subjects, I still entertain my
'titueney—out of these 20 vacancies in which a change opinions upon them ; and notwithstanding the brilliant
has taken place, there have been 16 returned adverse to exploits of our fleets and our Litnies, I think it would have
you and four only in your favour.—(Cheers.) And in been better that we should have effected everything which
, the vacancies in which there have been changes during British interests required by peaceable means. Instead of
. the present session there have been a positive loss of proceeding towards France as we have done, we should
-11ot less ,than twelve. I say, therefore, whatever have endeavoured to reconcile all parties, for by that
may ybe your expectation of future appeals to the people means we should have avoided those bitter feelings
of this country, you have no right to assume that the re- which have caused such preparations for war in that
suit or the elections has hitherto proved that on your country, and we should have re-established thoso reci-
tabsivetsrac. t merits as an administration, the opinions of the procal friendly cordial relations between France and this
Constituency differs from the opinion of their represents- country, which I sincerely wish to be permanent, and
--(Cheers.) I know it may be said that all my which I believe to be the essential foundation for the
general doctrines may be true ,• that it is right, under permanent peace and tranquillity of Europe. But on
°rdinary circumstances, that the Ministry should have these considerations I will not further enter, because I
the confidence of the House of Commons, but it will be wish to urge the constitutional grounds only on which my
_ .
SvEtidehth
at here are special and peculiar circumstances motion is founded. Sir, I dare say I will be met with
exempt us from the ordinary rule, and entitle us the taunt that I have brought forward on this occasion no
'0 remain office. Sir, this is the ready excuse which scheme of comprehensive policy; and I shall be told this is
blaY be made by those in power at any time.— an aggressive motion, and that when I invite the House
tic
(Cheers.) Who can deny the important position to affirm a resolution which supposes a want o
of this country—the complicated affairs to be admi- confidence, I might haw been
tnstered ? prepared to make Pal
My,
must be at all times special and pecu- claration of my opinions on all public questions. y
liar circumstances, and if at once you, being judges, you answer to that is, to ask where is the man that has more
the Executive Government, may discover special explicitly than I have done' his opinions on all great
ttnd peculiar circumstances by which you are exempted questions of national policy.— -(Cheers.) When was ite
thereln the ordinary principles of Executive Government, that upon any constitutional question—upon th
(Cis no limiting the application of this principle.— question of the Ballot—upou the extension of
heers-) Moreover the men to determine on that the suffrage, or upon the shortening of Parliaments—
Prinelple are not impartial judges—(Cheers)—as to the when was it that I ever withheld my opinion ? The
circumstances constituting these special cases.—(Cheers.) Hon. Gentleman the Member for Finsbury, says to us—
Perhaps it may be said, however, that you contemplate " Make a bidding against the Government, propose
ta:',l anneal to the people, that you are holding office for something more popular than the Government and
whe Purpose of making that appeal. Sir. I know nothing then you will have the support of Gentlemen of extreme
atever on this subject. As a Member of this House opinions like myself ? Sir, I will do no such thing.—
al Commons I can have no evidence of the intention of (Loud cheers.) I make no bidding for popular applause.
„1.110 Government I see you perpetually in a minority— —(Renewed cheers.) I maintain my opinions upon all
indications that you have not the confidence of the great constitutional questions ; and I will not for the
!louse of Commons. I know that you have the power purpose of filching some support from the Government
1' any time of dissolving, and that you can choose the on the present occasion, indicate opinions at variance
most favourable time, unless some particular Bills are with those which in detailed discussion I have con-
before the House. I'know this is a delicate prerogative. stantly professed. But did not I when subjects like
but the existence of that prerogative, and any concealed these were formally under discussion—on the vote of
motivesea. actuating you, cannot make it less my duty to confidence of last year, for instance—did not I explicitly
u
Upon the House to say whether it gives you its con- state my views with respect to all the ordinary subjects
Lfidence or not.—(Cheers.) I shall have no additional of Legislation ? Have not I, when any question was
c fidence in you after you have greatly excited the pub- brought under the consideration of Parliament, whether
s.s mind on a subject of no-less importance than the sub- Church Reform, or Church-rates, or any other measure ?
te nee of the people.—(Cheers.) I firmly believe thatyou Have not I uniformly adopted dui' same line of policy ?
4reunot advancing by that course the measure of which What is the public question of ordinary legislation in
Cr :tire the advocates. I don't underrate your power, respect of which any rational doubt can be .entertained
must o I underrate the evils which your course has and as to my views ? Ido draw a distinction between all
the produce—however Ido doubt your power to carry financial questions and questions of ordinary policy ; and
rtmeasure which you have propounded, of a duty of is. it is absurd to call upon me for the expression of an opi-
bushel on corn.—(Cheers.) My belief is, that you nion with respect to our financial difficulties. I stated
ttheve,„ less power to carry it than you had to carry before that I would not express any opinion on this sub-
-riss'ugar Duties—(Cheers)--and, although I have no ject, and I now repeat it, giving the full advantage, inde-
ir, to anticipate what may be the decision of the pendent of saying that if I was called to power to-mor-
„, "use upon the question of the Corn-laws, does row I would claim the right deliberately to review the
•-t}(l).t every man within the House concur with me in financial difficulties of the country, and I would not be
h Inkin that you bring forward the measure without a forced into a precipitate measure' or the purpose of ex-
Pe_ ° to carry it ?—(Lotid cheers.) You could not have tricating myself from the present inconvenience.—(Hear,
even the most distant hope to carry it in the present hear.) These are the grounds on which I submit with
'?use of Commons. You bring it forward, I will not confidence my resolution to the House of Commons. I
say for the purpose, but certainly the effect of •your pro- have never been the flatterer of the House—l never have
Position will be, to cause increased agitation among the encouraged the House in any attempt to carry a measure
r°l3lc, and an increased indisposition to come to any 'which I thought would have the effect of unduly increas-
...Nlement of the question.—(Cheers.) Still you con- ing the privileges and the powers of the House of Corn-
'Jonl your intention and say that after a debate upon the mons at the expense of the prerogatives of the Crown
to•ril-laws, you reserve to yourselves the right to come On the very last occasion on which I gave a vote, I gave
40 tlecision as to your future policy. That, in my that vote in support of her Majesty's Ministers,
,lalson, is a reason for bringing forward my resolution, in the attempt to resist a motion which would have the
am fortified in that position by the course which effect, in their opinion, of widely encroaching
.on the
have taken with reference to a measure of scarcely prerogatives of the Crown.—(Hear, hear.) I did what
o's importance—I mean the consideration of the I could, and my example was not followed by many
.has9r-laws•—(Loud cheers.) And see what that course members of her Majesty's Government.—(Loud cheers.)
been. You propose, without sufficient authority I did what I could to resist an attempt of the House of
Government--you propose to submit that measure, Commons to interfere with the rights of the Crown.
;un Yet at the same time you will not bring forward that Sir, that attempt was defeated by your single vote. You
measure which you deem essential to the public welfare were a single obstacle to a motion which, if carried,
e Poor-laws. On what ground do you withhold that would amount to an interference with the prerogatives
sure from our consideration ?—(Loud cheers.) I have of the Crown. You had the manliness, though the organ
Your own authority, the statement from your own of the House of Commons—(Cheers)—you had the man-
on
ths, of the grounds why you withhold from discus- liness, which I expected from the consistency of your
in the House of Commons so important character—(Loud and continued cheers)—you had the
measure as that of the new Poor-laws.—(Cheers.) manliness to expose your single, but exalted, but effec-
. 1- • Noble Lord said that in the present state of affairs tual, authority against a measure which you deemed in-
'e thought they had better not go into the consideration jurious to the principles of the Constitution. I expected
')f the Poor-law Amendment Bill, and what was his that vote, and I expected the declaration of the principle
mason ? because, in the first place, he thought it would on which it was based ; but when I saw how great had
lead to protracted discussion without any final result.— been the risk, I could not but feel confirmed in my opi-
(Cheers.) That is the ound upon which it is urged nion that the prerogatives of the Crown were not safe in
that the consideration ofgrthe New Poor-law Bill should the hands of a Government—(Loud cheers)—which, even
. he withdrawn from the cognizance of the House of Co-rn with the aid that I could give them, felt themselves com-
,mons__that it will pro
lead to tracted discussion, without pelled to call in the aid of the Speaker to form
4 Producing final results.—(Hear.) Now, if you may a majority.—(Loud and long-continued cheering.)
anticipate as to the Poor-law, may not I also anticipate But, Sir, although I have always resisted on
as to the Corn-law.—(Loud cheers.) If I am deficient the part of the House of Commons, and always will re-
in forms, and non-observant of technicalities in antici- sist, any unconstitutional, proceedings on the part of the
gating the result of the discussion on the Corn-laws, Ministers of the Crown, yet I have attempted to main-
are not you as non-observant of technicalities in antici- tain for the House of Commons the pogsession of every
ating the result of the discussion of the Poor-laws ?If just prerogative and right. I supported the Noble Lord
you anticipate a protracted discussion without final re- last year in the maintenance and defence of the privi-
sult, as the consequence of the discussion of the Poor- leges of the House of Commons. I might have been
laws, may I not anticipate the same with regard to the seduced by the temptation of party advantages. I had
Corn-laws ?—(Loud cheers.) The next reason you to encounter the painful sacrifice of differing from
give for postponing the consideration of the Poor- perhaps a majority of my former friends, but I thought
laws is, the expectation that every Honourable that vital and important interests were at stake, and I
Member will soon have to give an account of his con- was determined that I would not conciliate the favour
duct at the hustings. The Noble Lord thought a great and affection of my now esteemed friends—that I would
many motions and speeches would be made, intended not put to hazard the legitimate privileges of this House,
rather for the hustings than for any useful purposes of le- and subject it to the control of a Court of Law.—(Cheers
4islation —(Lould cheers.) Now, the reason you give is from both sides of the House.) It might perhaps be
~110 t the Unpopularity of the law, and not because you more wise not to refer to these things—it might
!,nePpose that the discussion of the law might be incon- be more politic to conceal the differences I have
111):nt to Members just prior to an election ; but the had with my Noble Friend, but I will not be
`round nd for withdrawing the consideration of the Poor- guilty of any such unworthy concealment.—(Hear, hear.)
`'`ti",a, from the cognizance of the House of Commons is I acted from a sincere belief that it was absolutely neces-
t vill lead to protracted discussion without pro- sary for the vindication of the privileges of the House
dicing final results, and that Members will bring for- of Commons, and that the privilege of free publication
htiwaLdmotions and make speeches addressed rather to the was essential to our interests. Why should I shrink
th2_"n gs than to useful purposes of legislation. For from a reference to those opinions—is it not rather a
reasons the Poor-law is withdrawn, vet the Corn- subject of pride to me that I can be permitted to take my
s',7 ,1s proceeded with. Now, is there more prospect of own course--(Much cheering)—to maintain the vital
respecte'al l egitosltahtion with respect to the Corn-law than with privileges of the House of Commons, and yet that due
e Poor-law ?—(Loud cheers.) 13 there less justice should be done to my motives, and that I should.
expectation of long speeches addressed rather to the again rally and bind, in common connection and corn-
ehe'_l.l.les than to useful purposes of legislation ?—(Loud mon esteem, those who, in their honest views, differed
cere'is,.) Is there a prospect that the discussion of the from me ?—(Hear, hear.) Acting in conformity with.
Dresrlaws can lead to any final result ? Is there any these great principles, which teach me to resist encroach-
ti,m-rei:t• but that the discussion of the Corn-law ques- ments from whatever quarter they come, I think the
the a.,,,rst at the present time lead to the aggravation of House of Commons has a right to expect that the Minis-
with 7hloc:ilturai and manufacturing distress ? And it is ter of the Crown should possess its confidence. This
as to Pinions to which I have already adverted House has been conducted and modelled upon the views
althonss discussion of the Poor-laws that lam informed, of the Noble Lord the Member for Stroud. The Noble
kinist64 I can hardly believe it, that her Majesty's Lord was the author of the Bill by which the
Corn_ht: Pro Pose to bring forward the question of the House of Commons was constituted. It was the Noble
rat tbs' and
on the result of that discussion to ap- Lord who thought it expedient to abolish the system of
rah to
cheers from the Ministerial nomination. It was the Noble Lord who thought it ex-
!? far in 101'lr, if that appeal be made, and on such grounds, pedient to introduce more of a popular spirit into the
state of trid°P.inion from tending to remedy thedepressei constitution of this House, that he might make it more
continued- elt will tend greatly to aggravate it by the in accordance with the progress of popular intelligence
Public Marltsigitation which it will introduce into the and freedom. The Noble Lord it was who thought we
ln all retail ets by the interruption which it will occasion ought to make the House more an image of the public
which the transactions, and by the state of uncertainty in mind—more sympathising with the people—more origi-
Tnay be Public mind must be for months, as to what nating with the people, and more expressive of the pub-
/141bizersgw.uillltitnate decision of the House of Commons. lie feeling.—(Hear, hear.) This House of Commons was
C°rn-law 'leor:lntthryat the agitation of this question of the constituted according to the views of the Noble Lord.
only tend to aggravate all those evils from This House of Commons was elected under his auspices.
Se' far fro already suffering.— (Cheers.) And Whateverbenefit there may be in having had its election
to
he:_ nt the expected discussion of the Corn-law ques- at the time when her gracious Majesty came to the
to a
uta•vt!'g a reason why I should not press my motion Throne of these countries, that benefit the Noble Lord
niiiv toirsion
reasonss
for
doing.—(Loud cheers.) There are other duty which I have imposed upon myself, in conformity
Illy plain r this motion, into which I will not now enter. with the spirit in which I intended to execute it—with
gesstine
confidence
simple proposition is that you do not pos- nothing of that asperity of party—(Hear, hear, hear)
are other onfidenee of the House of Commons, and there —into which I may be betrayed at times when
withdraw
besides those I have mentioned on rising at the end of a debate—when I speak
whichenlft.oithdraw my confidence from on. I have no con- under that excitement and agitation which belongs to
1 hetise,el your administration of the finances,—Cheers.) such an occasion. It is not consonant to my own feelings
are o.w"in that the evils of your financial administration to do so, and I should be the more inexcusable in giving
sister the
to the same causes--to your attempt to admi- way to such asperity when I could not plead the excite-
s'. the
t.. 1,0 Government without possessing the confidence ment of debate. It is not my intention to treat with dis-
that if use of Commons .—(Cheers.) Ido not believe respect those who hold the executive office, but it has
Commons
toynou had possessed the confidence of the House of been my intention to say to you it is your duty to show
cursed
diture s you would, in the face of an increasing expen- to the House of Commons—if it has this additional claim
ds and an increasing deficiency, although not with ato public confidence—it is peculiarly your duty not to de-
sereasie
eh
eaJ 090/.
g revenue—l donot believe you would have in- prive it of any of the legitimate influence which it pos-
-I,2es,_ 10 risk which
Post have incurred, by giving up sessed under other circumstances. If the House of Com-
of your office revenue.—(Loud Tory mons confirmed your suggestion you would have been the
reejs_.) I believe the same causes induced you to have first to acknowledge this decision, and when that House
....ss,",rese to that expedient which are actuatin,?; you now. of Commons took a different course, it was your bounden
ut.keo ers.) You had been for some time oscillating be- duty not to reject these decisions with scorn because they
ces:n Conservatism and Liberalism. You found it no- are unfavourable to your views and opinions.
prins eiYY to conduct your Government on Conservative Lord WORSLEY (who was yery indistinctly heard)
hlll ples and when you attempted to do so you for- said that he trusted he should be pardoned by the House,
aated the' confidence of those Gentlemen opposite, who for stating the manner in which he proposed to vote,
sheellP to that period been your supporters.—(Loud and the reasons on which that vote was founded. The
opies.) It was necessary to regain their good Right Hon. Baronet had founded his motion upon two
Nsetun ; some means were necessary for that pur- points. First, the constitutional point; and he had stated
rs,co;llYou were pressed on the subject of the Post-office various reasons why he had no confidence in her Ma-
th° e, and you gave it up.—(Cheers.) And when was jesty's present Ministers. He (Lord Worsley) thought
th°•st-oflice Revenue given up ? After your failure that many of the reasons on which the Right Hon. Ba-
the Jamaicae question.—(Cheers.) I cannot dive into ronet had roundedg his want of confidence were under
/te,.ecvessses of your counsels—l do not say that these discussion in 1839, and since that time he believed a vote
etre'"etu, , stand in the relative situation of cause and of confidence had passed in that House in favour of her
sheu,
,nut it is remarkable that the Post-office Revenue Majesty's Government.—(Hear, hear.) It was, there-
cehmlinalitiven up just after you were defeated on your fore, unnecessary for him (Lord Worsley) to discuss
for givi ensure. I resisted and opposed that measure points that had been already discussed and decided in
leesnsg up the Post-office Revenue at the time, not that House, Another point, to which the Right lion.
aeerue"v-Lowas insensible to the advantages which might Baronet had adverted was their financial policy, as ex-
th„e„,,.
om a diminished rate of postage, but because I emplified in the reduction of the postage; and he stated
gise;" Youh could not afford, with your deficiencies, to that her Majesty's Government had been urged to the
a source of revenue; because I could not measure by the " pressure from without." But even since
the tl at your resolution to supply the deficiency of that time, the Government had received a vote of con-
`e reveniti
ata,t, the by increased taxation could be trusted to fidence in that House, and upvtards of 100 Members,
the s by
was gone--(Cheers)—and I believe that who generally supported the Right Hon. Baronet, voted
• same
induced saLuse—your weakness as an Administration— in its favour. He (Lord Worsley) had, almost without
()you to propose that measure, that has induced
Administration—
t„ hiss you excetion supported the policy of the present Govern-
forward this measure relating to the Corn-laws. meat; and he not think this vote of confidence should
ta,..or explained howCmhanocchelhloor ofthe
new eers.) The
Exchequer has be narrowed to the three questions the other night pro-
his^ pon coin. ; but unless he raisecalculates b
to raise y this posed to the House, because he thought it was unwise in
Pen
upon corn his budget can 1.600,000/. by the House of Commons to pass a resolution respecting
haveeel's.) As I understood tlt' is worth nothing.— any particular exhibition of the policy of the Govern-
-o%tit a doubt whether he said Right Hon. Gentleman, ment —(Hear, hear.) He (Lord Worsley) thought that
11 have to be raised, but it 600,0001. or 1,600,0001. such a resolution ought to be upon their general policy.
17,nis at the same amount I am to estimate the The Noble Lord then quoted a passage in a speech of
ssue"seu,ooos must be raised sip asthey were last year, Sir It. Peel when in office, containing the same senti-
on
r ent year. With respect to th foreign
corn during the meat, but in so low a tone, that we could only learn its
(itu,v, seen an answer returned by
e duty on timber, I purport. He quite agreed in the sentiments thus ex-
44:nation, in which he stated a Lord
Sydenham to a pressed by the Right Hon. Baronet. No one could se-
als_ on the subject of those duties t he had no informs- gret more than he (Lord Worsley) the course which he
stated that even if the Gove Lord Sydenham had was compelled to take on a recent occasion ; but lion.
ward the timber duties it would be 11" mould bring for- Members opposite would remember that on that occa-
that a due ra
• seresss, regard should be had Pe tave duty to sion he said that it was on account of the manner in
have am that there should be ampl:ocall existing in- which their resolutions had been brought forward that
wer'euthee vested interests to dispose of fOr parties he felt compelled to vote against them ?—(Hear.) But
1111°11 Lorca", and if it were an imperative 'Tin. If that , because he differed in one point from the policy of the
the
co.. Sydenham, would it be possible aty imposed ' Government, was he, therefore, to abandon all the prin-
t° re • •is nqu! eof the present year the amount re • alise ciples which he held in common with them ?—(Cheers.)
01en... my intention to enter at the present re ?It He would do no such thing.—(Cheers.) Let him ask,
.Y2tehver matters connected with the Governunet
vent
into moreover, how he could withdraw his confidence from
opie:es
non ve mco y opinion on them. I will reserve my place confidence in some other Government ?—(Loud
ileiue that we are placed inn • • gcannot but cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had told them
position with regard
to that he was against a . fixed duty on corn ; that he