The Sun.
London, England, 1841-03-12 00:00:00

mPE It IAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, 112,wit 11.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY, in the absence of the
Lord Chancellor, took his seat on the Woolsack at
Five o'Clock.
The Marquis of BUTE presented petit ns from
Rothsay and other places in Scotland against Church
patronage.
POOR-LAW COMMISSION (IRELAND).
The Duke of WELLINGTON said that, seeing
the Noble Lord in his place, and understanding that
there would be no opposition to the motion for the papers
of which he had given notice, he would not now make
any observations on that ,subject. It appeared that
when the Poor-law Amendment Bill passed that House
extraordinary powers were given to the Commissioners,
but measures were takes by. Parliament to prevent the
abuse of those powers without such abuse coming
to the knowledge of the Government, the Parliament
and the public. They were directed to keep an accu-
rate record in writing of all their proceedings, and no
doubt if that direction had been minutely followed
every transaction could be traced from its origin
up to the order of the Commissioners. He
would, therefore, move in consequence of the
discussions which bad recently taken place, that a humble
address be presented to her Majesty, praying that her
Majesty would be pleased to order that there be
laid before their Lordships' House an exact copy
of the Records of the Poor-law Commissioners relating
to the unions of Clonmell, Naas, and two other unions
in Ireland.
The Marquis of NORMANBY had no objection
to the motion, but as he had led their Lordships
to expect that Mr. Nicholls would be this day
in attendance on the House, he begged to state ha had
to-day received a letter from that gentleman, assigning
two reasons for his absence, first it happened
that he was absent from Dublin at the time
the correspondence took place, and therefore he could
give their Lordships no personal information on
the subjeot ; and, secondly, that at the present
moment, in consequence of the elections going
on in all parts of the country for guardians, his absence
from Dublin would be exceedinglyineoavenient to the pub-
lic service. He thought it right to state that those letters
had been written before Mr. Nicholls had heard of the
second complaint which had been made, and in conse-
quenco of that, he (the Marquis of Normanby) had
written. to Mr. Nicholls, desiring him to come over
at whatever inconvenience, and therefore be hoped
that he would be present on Monday. The
whole matter, however, could be explaired by Mr.
Stanley, who had signed the letter, and who had offered
an explanation to him, stating that there was no inten-
tion to deceive ; and indeed he (Marquis of Normanby)
could not see what was to be gained by deception.
He admitted there had been some irregularity, but as
the explanation was very complicated it would be
doubtless more satisfactory to their Lordships, to him-
self, to the Government, and to Mr. Stanley, that that
gentleman should have an opportunity of giving their
Lordships that explanation himself. Therefore as
soon as the motion of the Noble Duke should be
disposed of, he would take the opportunity of moving
that Mr. Stanley be ordered to attend on their Lord-
ships on Monday next.
The Earl of GLENGALL having brought forward
complaints relative to the Poor-law Commissioners, was
fully prepared to substantiate every allegation he had
made, by evidence, either at the bar of the House
or before a Committee ; and as to there being no inten-
tion to deceive he could prove by evidence that what
was done had been done for the express purpose of de-
ception, and for no other'.

. •
The Marquis of NORMANBY said that would
all come out at the proper time. He had not given a
distinct opinion, but had stated that upon a cursory
examination of these papers there did not appear to him
to be any intention to deceive, and that he could not
Fee what object could be obtained by such deception ;
but at the acme time he had stated most distinctly that
it was clear an irregularity had been committed.
The motion was then agreed to.

The Marquis of NORMANBY then moved that
Mr. Stanley, a Poor-law Commissioner of Ireland, be
ordered to attend the House on Monday next.
Agreed to.
ST. SULPICE.

The Marquis of NORMA NBY then moved for a
return of certain papers respecting the motion Of the
Right Rev. Prelate (the Bishop of Exeter), which
stood for discussion to-morrow.

The Bishop of EXETER inquired if they were
printed ?
The Marquis of NORMANBY said he understood
they were, and would be delivered to-morrow.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH said their Lordships
must understand that it was a difficult thing to read
papers and proceed at once to debate upon them.
He understood from what had taken place on the sub-
ject that her Majesty's Government would not advise
her Majesty to disallow the ordinance within the period
of thirty days, during which time it would lie on the
t•tble of the House.—( Hear, hear.) He thought
that it wood be desirable for the -Right Reve-
rend Prelate to postpone his motion until Monday
or Tuesday next, as there would still be ample time to
move the address to her Majesty before the thirty days
expired. Under these circumstances he (Lord Ellen-
boroagh) would not now press other circumstances which
appeared to him to be of the greatest importance, but
would merely suggest to the Right Rev. Prelate that it
would be for the convenience of the House if he would
aocede to this suggestion. . .

The Bishop of EXETER said he was sure their
Lordships would not suppose that any personal incon-
venience whatever had induced him to state that he was
afraid that it would not be in his poli er to accede to
the am-Teat' on that had been made to him. He was
at that moment under the orders of the Court of
Queen's Bench, having been subpcened to attend at
Exeter, at the present assizes, and he was bound to
leave London early o❑ Saturday morning. Under these
circumstances he would vent are to suggest to their
Lordships that it was rather hard, on the eve of a motion
of this kind, that an application of this sort should be
made, the more especially as the attention of the
Government had been called to this subject for a
period of nine or ten days, and it had not been
until the eleventh hour that they had thought fit
ti lay upon the table papers that would seem to
be important. He was afraid he could not attend on
Monday next without disobeying a mandate of the
Court of Queen's Bench.

Lord ELLENBOROUGII inquirel if the Right
Rev. Pre'we was obliged to be in Exeter on Monday
next ?

The Bishop of EXETER said he was bound pre-
viously to go to Worcester on businec.s of great
importance relating to the Church, and to
be in Exeter on Tuesday night. He under-
stood from the Noble Marquis these papers were
printed, and as he supposed they could therefore have
them early tc-morrow morning, he thought there would
be suficie►:t time to consider them.

The Marquis of NORM AN BY said that the
parers had been ordered by the House of Commons
on Tuesday, and he believed they were now printed.
The Earl of RIPON said that the dispatch which
was referred to seemed to be held on all sides as of
great importance. The question now was, whether they
ought to be celled on to give an opinion on a very im-
portant subject, to which everybody attached fie
greatest consequence, without their having the means
of considering the principles on which the mea-
sure rested, and which principles they were
told were to be found in a certain despatch
which they would not be able to read till to-mor-
row He had a perfect recollection of what was
contained in that despatch
;b
years ago, he could not at thatu w
t momentrittcn a
us itod wasertoi, teotno
explain to theirunLdoerddoshr.is either the principles upon
the motives which induced him
whichtto
idv
iiste whaiss fo
Majesty
to send that despatch to Canada.
on such a question withou"'tsiiatvhienyg omougorhot
tniomtetotodecide
Under those cirenmstan
exa-
mine into it. Somearrangementlnement ought, he thought,
to be made by
bares
Majesty's Government,
the
postponement
as they were concerned n
of the discussion, that the igo
oe
us
question
ri b
should be put
in the same position as it would have
to
been in if
e
the thirty days required for
the
lie on the table of the House had
not
expired.
What occurred in the present instance happened
last
in the Clergy Reserves Bill. It
impossible
to ear was
to proceed on that occasion without the advantage of
an assurance such as he referred to being given by her
Majesty's Government ; and on the present if Minis-
ters would give a similar assurance the Right Rev.
Prelate might be able to postpone the question.
The Bishop of EXETER would accede to that
proposition, trusting that, under the circumstances of
his attending his Parliamentary duties, the Judge of
Assize would consent to put off the trial. At all
events, he (the ashop of Exeter) would undertake
to bring forward his motion on Monday next, and he
would mote that the order for proceeding with the mo-
tion to-morrow be discharged, and that the question
be postponed till Monday.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH suggested to the Noble
Marquis opposite that it would be desirable to furnish
their Lordships with a copy of the Letters Patent
granted by Lord Bathurst in 1821 to the Roman Ca-
tholic Seminary of St. Nicolay, in Canada.
Lord DUNCANNON then laid upon the table
despatches of Lord Goderich relating to Catholic
education in Canada.

The Marquis of NORMANBY gave notice that in
consequence of the arrangement that had been made
with the Rev. Prelate (the Bishop of Exeter), he
should move that the attendance of Mr. Stanley be
postponed to Tuesday next.—Ordered.
The Earl of ROSEBERY presented a petition
most numerously signed for the abolition of Church
patronage in Scotlana. He entirely differed from the
petitioners, for although he believed that in the Pres-
byterian Church, no minister should be intruded into
any parish against the will of the people, yet he
was equally convinced that nothing could be more mis-
chievous to the Church than that ministers should be
chosen by popular election.