The Sun.
London, England, 1823-05-15 00:00:00

lIOUSE OF COMMONS.

Allardyce's Divorce Bill went through a Committee, and
witnesses were examined at the Bar.—The Bill ordered to be
read a third time on Friday.
SLAVERY.

Petitions were presented against Slavery, from Bridgewater,
by Mr. Tynte ; from Beccles, and several other places in Suf-
folk, by 11Ir. Gooch • from Bolton, by Lord Stanley ; from
Rochester and Chatham, by Lord Binning; from White-
haven, by Mr. Curwen ; from Hitchen, by Mr. Lamb ;
from Stonebouse, by Lord Edward Somerset; from Chelten-
ham, by Sir W. Guise ; from several places in Norfolk, by
Mr. Wodehouse ; and from Lutterworth, by Mr. L. Keck.
Most of the Hon. Members who presented these petitions
spoke shortly in their fovour.—They were ordered to lie on the
table, and be printed.
DUTY ON FOREIGN WOOL.
Sir JOHN SE BRIGHT presented a petition from Sir John
Sinclair, against the Repeal of the Duty on the Importation of
Foreign Wool. The Flon. Member said that thl Right Hon.
petitioner, in order to shew the propriety of encouraging and
protecting our own wool trade, was desirous not only of peti-
tioning the House on this subject, but also of presenting to it a
specimen of the wool produced from his own breed of sheep.
This he (Sir John Sebright) bad ,suggested to him might
be done most effectually, by presenting him (Sir John Se-
bright) with a coat made from this wool.—(Dear, hear, and
a laugh.)--The Right Honourable Baronet had acceded to
the suggestion, and he (Sir John Sebright) had now the ho-
nour to present himself to the House in that coat. If the
House would allow him to bring up the petition, his doing so
would give Hon. Members a good opportunity of looking at
the coat—(Hear, hear, and laughter.)—But this would not be
all ; for he assured them he would, after presenting the peti-
tion, go into the Lobhy. for the purpose of giving them every
opportunity of examining this wool.—(Loud cheers and
laughter.)—The petition was then brought up, read, and or-
dered to be printed.
COAL DUTY.
A petition from Ware was presented against the Coal Duty
by Sir JOHN SEBIUGHT.
Mr. Alderman WOOD said the duty was imposed in the
first instance, for the purpose of repaying the expence of
erecting churches ; but although several millions had been
raised from it, the City of London had derived very little
benefit from this duty.—The petition was ordered to be printed.
SUG A R
Mr. DUNDAS presented a petition from the merchants of
Leith, praying for an equalization of the Sugar Duties.—Or-•
tiered to be printed.
Similar petitions were presented from Rochdale and War-
rington, by Lord ST4NLEY, and similarly, disposed of.
MANCHESTER PETITION AGAINST SLAVERY.
Lord STANLEY presented a petition from Manchester,
signed by 30,000 persons, praying for the abolition of Slavery.
—lt was signed by the Clergy, the Merchants, and other re-
spectable Inhabitants of that place and • its vicinity, who were
'persons of great intelligence, and fully competent to form an
opinion on this subject. The Noble Lord spoke at some
length in support of the petition
Mr. PHILLIPS spoke in favour of the Petition, which was
brought up and read, and
ALT ordere
DUTY .d to be printed.
M .
Mr. FANE presented a Petition from the inhabitants of
Leicester, praying for the total repeal of the Malt Duty.—
Ordered to lie on the table.
' STATE OF IRELAND.
Sir HENRY PARNELL gave notice, that on Friday se'n-
night he should, on the question being put for the further pro-
gress of the Insurrection Bill, move for a Secret Committee,
to inquire into the cause of the Disturbances in Ireland.
The. SPEAKER suggested to the Hon. Baronet that the
Rouse would be placed in a difficulty, if, on the day mentioned
by the Hon. Baronet, the Bill in question 811061 be too fur
advanced.
Sir HENRY PARNELL replied, bat we did not distinctly
hear him. We rather understood the Hon. Baronet to say,
that, in the case alluded to by the Speaker, he should make his
motion as an original motion ; but that if the suggested

Mr. BROUGHAM would be very unwilling to throw any
obstacles in.the way of the reward due to an ingenious indivi-
dual, as he understood Mr. M'Adam to be; but he wished to
know, for the information of the House as well as of himself,
whether all that gentleman had done and was doing, was with-
out reward ? If he had received no farthing of money—(" No
no," from several Members.)—Oh, then, that made a great dif-
ference ; if he received a salary for his services, his case stood
in a very different point of view. He had suspected this, al-
though he did not gather it from thepetition. He thought that
so Roman a virtue—(for never since the Roman roads were any
made „.rratuitously)—he feared that such disinterestedness was
not calculated for our times. The House would launch upon
a wide sea indeed, if it took up the task of rewarding every man
of merit, for whose services the reward he receives is not thought
adequate.
Mr. PEEL said, nothing could be more inconvenient than
such a practice as was now sought to be adopted. If Gentle.
men chose to give gratuitous advice, the House should not be
called upon to remunerate them. The service rendered was
always, as in the case of the Honourable Member for Abing-
don, local, and the remuneration should also be local.
Mr. D. GILBERT, Mr. 11. 8113iNER, and Sir T. ACL AND,
bore testimony to the merit of Mr. Ill'Adam._ . . .

Mr. G. BENNET opposed the reference of the petition to a
Committee, the mink of which, he knew from his own expe-
rience, was usually a recommendation of the grant prayed tor.
On the question that the petition be laid on the table,
Lord A. HAMILTON begged to take this opportunity of
adverting to what had happened yesterday. He was not so
absurd as to complain that there had been no House, -or that
Hon. Gentlemen on the Ministerial side had not thought fit to
attend, but he had a right to complain that an instrument or
agent had been employed to prevent the attendance of forty
Members. The Noble Lord then alluded to the various cir-
cumstances attending the postponement of his motion of Scotch
borough representation, during the last Session, and to the ac-
commodation shown on his part, and the manoeuvring on the
part of Government, to delay the discussion in the present.--
.At length it had been promised, or at least understood, that
yesterday was to be allowed him for the purpose. He had come
down at half-past three for that purpose, but he was in a situa-
tion to prove that the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite had em-
ployed a person to prevent the formation of a House; for, un-
solicited and unauthorized, the individual to whom he had
alluded would, probably, not have taken such a course.—
Under
such circumstances, he (Lord A. Hamilton) owed it to
his constituents, to the House, and to himself, not to be pre-
vented from bringing the subject forward. Ministers exercised
great controul over the proceedings of the House : they selected
what business they chose fin precedence, and postponed all
other matters, just as suited their convenience. As he was thus,
as it were, at their mercy, he' thought himself entitled, with-
out meaning any thing offensive to the House,- to take such
redress into his own hands as its forms allowed. He should,
therefore, the first time. the question of sup2ly was raised on
the other side, take the opportunity of moving the resolution
he had intended to have proposed yesterday. If any more
proper method could be suggested, lie was ready to adopt it.
Mr. CANNING expressed his regret that his illness had
been the cause of a previous postponement. To show that Mi.
nisters did not wish to retard the discussion longer, it was only
necessary to mention, that when on a previous day it was sug-
gested that the Irish Inquiry should be fixed for Tuesday, a
Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Peel) had interposed, and stated that
that night was to be devoted to the motion of the Noble Lord.
The Noble Lord would now pursue whatever course he might
deem most expedient.
Mr. BROUGHAM alluded to the unquestionable right of
any Member to bring on a discussion without notice. Under
.the circumstances, he did not see that the Noble Lord was
bound to observe much courtesy towards the other side.
Mr. GOULBURN disclaimed having been any party to a
plan for preventing the formation of a house yesterday.
Mr. PEEL did the same, and referred to what had fallen
from him on a preceding day. Ile had come down at five
o'clock, under the full impression that the House was sitting.
The LORI) ADVOCATE said, that some allowance ought
to be made fur the late hour to which the House sat on Mon-
day. Seeing the Hon. Member for Caine in his place, he
begged to know whether he meant, on the 3d of June, to
bring forward his motion regardiag W. M. Borthwick. He
was sorry to observe, that the Honourable Member for Es.
sex had fixed a resolution on the subject of cash payments also
for that day. •
sir. A Brdne ROM assured the Noble and Learned Lord,
that it was his firm determidation to bring that subject forward
on a day when he could have preccldence,. so that the fullest
discussion might be had. If blame were imputable for delay,
it belonged to those who did not produce the necessary papers
at an earlier date.
Mr. BROUGHAM thouglit it probablethat the Hon. Mem-
ber for Essex would remove his resolution on Cash Payments
out of the way of the motion on the Scotch Press. Short of a
most important
(Ptuaesrlitaiomnesnttharayt ciomuPldea en
After a few words from Mr. CA!4'N I SLi and Mr. CALCIIATT,
cchommebt:foiret wtahse oinfieniosfe.the
the Petition was laid upon the table.
CHURCH OF IRELAND.

Sir J. NEWPORT gave notice, that at the commencement
of the next Ses.sion, he would move for the appointment of a
Select Committee to examine into the state of the Established
Clergy in Ireland, the residence of the Clergy, and the dis-
posal of the First Fruit Fund.
MILIMANK PENITENTIARY,
On the motion of Mr. BENNET, the following Committee
was appointed to inquire into the present state of the Peniteu-
tiary at Ai ilibank
Air. Grey Bennet, Lord Stanley, Mr. liornby, Mr. Evans
Mr. Peel, Mr. Robert CliVe, Mr. George Dawson, Admiral
Sotheron, Air. Milne Sumner, Sir Joseph Yorke, Mr. Chet.
wynk Air. John Smith, Mr. Spring Rice, Mr. Woolryche
'Whitmore' Mr. Hobhouse, Lord Viscount Althorp, Mr. Robt.
.Strith • (of Lincoln), Mr. Stanley, Mr. Bootle Wilbraham,
Sir Thos. Baring, and Mr. Wilford.
Sir J. Youxr, Mr. COURTENAY, and Mr. HoLronD en-
tered into an explanation regarding a letter sent to Mr. Cour-
tenay, and supposed to have been lost, regarding the appear-
ance of the scurvy among the prisoners.
BREACH OF PRIVILEGE.

Mr. J. Mr ILLIA AIS rose to bring forward a matter which
he was extremely unwilling to introduce, and which he should
not have introduced but for the very peculiar circumstithces
attending it. The Ilouse would recollect, that in the course of
the inquiry regarding the conduct or the Sheriff of Dublin, a
witness of the name of Wadden had been adduced, who sus.
Wind a cross-examination regarding► some domestic circum-

Colonel BARIW said, 114 had strong doubts whether the
publication alluded to was may breach of the privileges of the
House. 'The Learned Gentleman did him no more than jos.
tice in supposing, that in taking the course of examination he
had done on a former evening, he was solely actuated by a de.
sire to discharge his duty ; and he certainly had not since re-
pented of what he did at, that time. He regretted the course
the Learned Gentleman had now taken ; for if one mode were
better calculated than another to give publicity to the transac-
tion, it was that which he had adopted. It would, in conse-
pence be published in all the Newspapers in the British Em-
Isire.—(llear !)—He had never mentioned the subject to any
'one, except those who were members of the Committee, since
the discussion took place, because he wished the matter to drop
altogether. The Learned Gentleman was ~perfectly wrong
when he said, that no other Paper had mentioned the circum-
stance except the Journal to which he had adverted. The fact
was, that the Newspaper to which he (Colonel Barry) a few
nights ago called the attention of the House, had mentioned it
in a very gross manner.
Mr. BROUGHAM observed, that the Honourable Mem-
ber who had last spoken, fell into a very considerable mistake
when he supposed that this publication was not a breach of
privilege. It might be a question how far it was an actual
breach of privilege in the absence of any document to show
that a positive order was given on the subject ; but, according
to Parliamentary usage, it was a breach of privilege, because
it was the publication of what had occurred ;n Parlia-
ment. It was true, the House abstained from notic ng the
publication of its proceedings, on account of the benefit which
the country derived from their dissemination ; but, when this
permission or connivance was abused, it was clearly in the dis-
cretion of the House to visit that abuse with punishment. He
perfectly agreed with his Learned Friend, that nothing could
be more indecorous or more malignant than the publication
complained of.—(Hear, hear 1)—NO person had expressed him-
self more strongly than he had done at the time of the examin-
ation in question. He had appealed to the'good sense and feel.
ing of those through whose instrumentality their proceedings
became known, and that appeal was immediately attended to.
But, however unjustifiable or inexcusable the conduct of this
printer might be, he could not agree to the motion. Ile was
not induced to adopt that course on the ground stated by the
lion. Colonel—namely, that the motion tended.ti • give greater
publicity to the affair ; because that principle went to prevent
the punishment of even the grossest libel: but he acted thus,
because he would always adhere to the declaration he had made
on a former occasion. If it were not irregular, he-begged that
the entry on their Journals of the 17th July last, in the case of
Messrs. Hope and Menzies should be entered as read. Onthat occasion, it might be recollected that he gave notice, that
after the House had committed such an unprecedented de-
reliction of its duty to the public—after it had abandoned
the assertion of its own privileges—after it had, for the
first time in the annals of any deliberative assembly, how-
ever inconsiderable, degraded itself by the most indecorous
expression of satisfaction at its own humiliation, he then
gave notice, that never, while he held a seat in that House.
would he allow an individual, in humble life, to be called
to their bar, without entering his protest against it. Why
should their vengeance fall on poor, unprotected, defenceless
printers, when an officer of the Crown, a high haw Officer,
had been suffered to infringe their privileges with impunity
When the cbject of that Officer, in writing a certain letter,
was to provoke a personal quarrel with a Member of that Howe
for doing his duty in Parliament, was he to be told that no cer-
sure was to be pronounced on him ? On that occasion, did not
many Members of that House, and amongst them some Cabinet
Ministers, cheer loudly at their own self humiliation ? The
great object of their privileges was, that they might operate as
a check on the Crown in favour of the people. Here, hew Ner,
the officer of the Crown was supported ; but if any other per.
son had erred, the vengeance of the House, red hot, would
have been launched at his head—he would have been over.
whelmed with fines and fees. On this ground, if he stood alone,
I,e would, happen what might, always vote against any step
being taken for the punishment of offenders charged with a
breace of th 9 privileges of that House, because they appeared to
have no justice in them ; they were resorted to fir party pug.
poses ; they were powerful against the weak, but they gave way
betbre the strong.
Mr. C. H. HUTCHINSON begged leave to make a corn-
munication to the House, which would perhaps render any far-
ther proceeding unnecessary. The House must be aware that
the discussion relative to the evidence alluded Fo occupied a
considerable time before that evidence was ordered to he ex.
punged. Ile was informed that, in consequence of this circ► m.
stance, an individual who communicated with the Dublin press
had, at six o'clock in the evening, or a little after, and prior
to the decision of the House being known, sent of his usual
Parliamentary Report, containing the objectionable matter.—
Three quarters of an hour afterwards, the order for expunging
the evidence was given, but it was then impossible to recall
the letter.

r. CANNING said it certainly made a very great diflbrence
if the printer was not conscious that he was breaking any par.
ticular order of the House. On that ground it would not,
perhaps, be necessary to follow up the motion. He could not
concur, however, in suffering a breach of privilege to go un.
visited, for the reasons stated by the Learned Gentleman. He
would not go into a discussion relative to the case to which the
Learned Gentleman had adverted : but, in his mind, the House
was on that occasion perfectly justified in the course that had
been adopted, If, however, that had happened not to be the
case, it did not appear to him that that circumstance ought to
prevent them from punishing breaches of privilege in future.
lie did not mean to suggest to the beamed Gentleman (Ir. J.
Williams) the mode in which he should proceed. If he meant
to call the printer to the bar, on the mere technical breach of
privilege, he did not know that he could interfere to prevent
him ; but if the individual appeared to have sinned in ignorance,
he should be inclined to treat him with every degree of leniency.
The beamed Gentleman would consider whether it was neces-
sary for him to proceed, after the explanation which had been
given. If he felt that it was not, he, for one, would not press
him to go farther.
Sir. J. NEWPORT said, when the mail arrived in Dublin,
the printer published a second edition, containing all the offen.
sive matter; and, in that edition, he actually mentioned the
order of the House for preventing thepublication of the evidence.
It was, therefore. clear that in thisinstance he acted wilfully.
M. J. WILLIAM said, after the reprobation which the
conduct of the printer received, he was ready and willing to
retrace his steps, and not persevere in his motion.
The motion was then withdrawn.