The Sun.
London, England, 1824-02-25 00:00:00

N.

. . •
he had deliberated on the matter, and must decline giving
"the information which he had before volunteered.--,(Hear !)
Another Solicitor, to whom he had applied for information,
said that he was neither unable nor unwilling, but he was
'afraid to give it ; and that if he were to give it, he would be-,
come a marked man, not in the Court, hut in. the surround-
ing offices; and that lie would suffer accordingly.—(Cheers
from the Opposition:)—These circumstances he thought it
necessary to state, not so much to. vindiCate himself from the
charge of misrepresentation or exaggeration, (albeit he was
not indifferent to the opinion of the House or of the public)
but to support his argument that the 'case called for inquiry,
and that information which was now refused,- but which in a
Committee could be demanded. This reminded him of an
allusion once made 'by the late Mr. Burke, who observed that
there were some men like cats, that would not elicit any light
until their backs were well rubbed.—(A laugh.)—These cir-
_cumstances clearly ,hewed the necessity of a Committee, for
information at present, by some means or other, was stifled.
He was charged, and.truly charged with ignoiance on the sub-
ject ; but if such a case apperaed, even on the shewing of an
ignorant. person, was it not fair to conclude that a much
stronger case would be produced by one more experienced ?
(Hear, hear, hear !)—With these preliminary observations he
should proceed to call their attention to the facts shewn by
the documents on the table of the House, which showed the
number of causes decided by the Lord Chancellor on rehear-
ings and appeals from the year 1813, when the Vice-Chancel-
lor was first appointed,. to the year 1823. .A list of .168 0r.9 was
given in, of which 84 or 5 had been struck out or withdrawn
by the parties, leaving the number decided. by the Chancellor
at about eight and a traction every year. How much his arith-
metic served him, he (Mr. IV.) would leave the House to de-.
cide, bearing in mind how much he was charged with misre-
presentation, and that it was broadly. asserted that 47 or
48 in a year was the average number of decided causes.
He had said, and he repeated, that the, business of. this
Court wavin admired disorder, because it was uncertain when
business would really be performed. In the list before the
House there were three cases which had been seven years old
from the petition to the order, three which had been six years
old, and three, two months only. Thus were cases disposed of
by fits and starts, and without regard to the least order or regu-
larity. Looking at the circumstances altogether, he thought he
was justified in declaring his opinion that as to the cases.with
drawn the parties had withdrawn them in despair.—(Hear,
from die Opposition.)—The first case he would allude to was the-
case of the Attorney. General v, Rooke. In that, the merits were
disposed of; but the question. of coats was reserved. For a dis-
posal of that question, continued applications were made for two
years ; and the parties, in despair, compromised it. As 'he ap-
pealed to facts alone, he would refer the House to the last two
terms, so far as regarded Appeals, original Causes, and Re-
hearings. In one there had been no judgment; in another the
case had been reheard, and no judgment; in another, an opi-
nion had been given, but no judgment; and consequently no
order could be drawn up ; in another, case heard, but no judg-.
ment ; in another, part heard, but no judgment ; iu another, as
to the collegiate church of Manchester, there was a judgment—
the only one. This was a case in which the judgment and the
argument together did not take up half an hour. Ile now came
to see how often these causes had stood for judgment in the
Lord Chancellor's paper. This was no unimportant enquiry, as
the Solicitor charged 13s. 4d., and the Clerk in Court 6e. 3d. for
attendance every day on which the cause was in the paper—one
was 15 days ;. another 24 days, 'and not touched ; another .
fifteen days, and not touched ; another twenty days, heard, but
not decided. This -was not vague assertion,, although it would
be met by the usual assertion of "No delay." It happened
however that there, was nothing, however paradoxical, which
could be asserted in that House, which would not be believed,
if it were 'asserted by a person standing in a proper position.—
(A laugh.)—lt became, therefore, a question of locality,—
(laughter)—and he happened to .be in the wrong place. He
would go into detail, and the House must bear with him.—
(Hear !)—The-first case was that of " Dudley v. Freeman,"
arising out of a will, by which Freeman took an interest. The
bill was filed in 1784, to execute the trusts of the will. In

1787, there was a decree confirming the trusts. The defendant, 1
Freeman received an allowance for several years under this
decree; bat a doubt having been suggested somewhere (no mat-
ter where) as to the limitations in the will under which Free-
man took his interest, the parties who were interested in the
doubt presented a petition to review the decree. From 1812 to
1818, nothing was done on this, petition. In 1818 the petition
was heard, but no judgment was given, it then being intimated,
for the first time, that the proceeding by petition was irregular,
In 1819 a bill of review was filed. In 1821 the case was
argued, and from that time to 1823, the defendant was re-
peatedly applying for judgment. The case affected the title
to 2,000 acres of land and an accumulated sum of 10030001.—
The defendant was in. bad health ; certificates of his dan-
gerous state of health were forwarded to London. The Ma-
gistrates of his neighbourhood interfered, and remonstrated on
the delay. He (Mr. Williams) proposed applying to the
Solicitor for information; but he was no longer in a situation
to give it, for men die though suits survive.—(Cheers from the
OppoSition.)—lt appeared, however, that he had charged for
40 attendances to call for judgment ; and that his successor to
this worn-out suit had attended 16 specific appointments for
judgment.—(Cheers from the Opposition.)—Anxiety in such a
case might surely be forgiven. The unfortunate defendant
had also
.paid his Solicitor for many
.special journies to ob-
tain the judgment. A large bill was incurred; but the soli-
citor waited and lingered in vain. The House would remem-
ber that the debate last year was adjourned, after one night's
debate, until the next. It so happened that the morning after
the first night's debate, notice was given by the Lord Chan-
cellor that he would pronounce judgment in two days ; and
judgment was accordingly pronounced in one sentence.—
(Hear!)—The next case was the case of Lord Moira against
Wyatt and others. The bill was filed in 1814 ; the case
heard in 1817 ; and remained untouched until the year
1819, many applications having been made for judgment.—
It was then said that the papers had been lost by the officer
whose business it was to take care of them ; fresh papers were
then furnished; and then it was said that there must be a re.
hearing,—(Loud cheers from the Opposition.)—Fresh Learned
Gentlemen were then retained ; fresh discussion took place ;
the Chancellor said he would take the papers home with him,'
and give his "judgment to-morrow," but never—no, never, did
that morrow come—(Cheers)--and the dispairing suiters were
driven to a compromise. If this was not a denial, it surely
was a failure of justice. The next case was that of a Gentle-
man *ell known to him; but as it related to family affairs,
he would not mention his name ; though he had authority
to give it to any Honourable Gentleman in the House, and
to introduce him to that Gentleman. This Gentleman married
a Lady, whose misfortune, not her fault, it was to have her
property locked up in the Court of Chancery. He married
her, as he (Mr. Williams) understood was usual (for he knew
nothing about it himself—(A laugh)—for .better' for worse.
The Lady, he had no doubt, was, as she ought to be, the bet-
ter; the Chancery.suit, as was always the case—(Laughter)—
' was the worse. The case went on in the usual way. There
was a reference to the Master—a report—exceptions to that
report; the suitor was a Gentleman in the law, a man of as
keen and discerning a mind as any he was then addressing,
but from mere fear of the Court, and not from any doubt
of his own case, he consented to give up half his property
in a compromise, rather than allow himself and his poste-
rity, perhaps, to be sent into that loathsome dungeon. of a
Court. The next case was also that of a Gentleman in the
law. On being applied to, he also declined giving informa-
tion, until he found that he (Mr. W.)
.already knew nine-
tenths of the case. The name of this Gentleman he should
not give, unless the facts were disputed. In the year 1817,
this gentleman brought an action at law, and gained a verdict;
in the same term the defendant applied to the Court of Chan-
cery for an injunction to stay the proceedings, alleging that the
transaction originated in usury. Answer was put in ; the cause
was set down for hearing, and argued. After waiting three years
for judgment, it was found that here, too, the papers were lost.
The case being then fresh papered was decided in favour of
this Gentleman, on the ground that the alledged usury af-
forded a good defence at law; and therefore precluded the
Court of Chancery from exercising any jurisdiction. The
judgment was now, however, .of no use ; as the defendant
bad become a bankrupt; and the loss to this Gentleman,
though, fortunately for his circumstances, it, was not ruin-
ous to this Gentleman, amounted to 10,0001. Here was
a case in which the quick proceedings of a Court of Law were
suipended by the linproper granting of an
.why
at Equity.
If the injunction ought not to prevail, why was it granted at
all ? The person was not actually ruined , but no thanks to
the Court of Chancery.—(Ckeering from the Opposition'. )_-An-
other case' was the case of Gough against Lord Somers. . It Was
heard in 1818', and application was made for judgment 40 times
while it Stood in the paper in the years 1815 and 1816. Thoie
applicationshad been continued down to the present time; but

PRICE SEVENRENCta

no judgment had yet.been given. The case was pending,
and might probably until the more serious day ofjudgitientiliould
=lye.. The last caseto which he should refer was the case of
Copis v. Middleton. • The bill was filed in the year 1793, for an
account, and prayed that the defendant might be charged with
a certain windmil in dispute.—(A laugh.)-7Gentlemen might ,
well laugh, for this Windihil case was 'known to many iu the/
House who were not professional. In the year 1796 -thefe
was a decree referring the case to the Master ; and;the"•Case
remained asleep in the Master's office for nineteen'
(Hear, hear,--and a laugh.)-:-He did tot blame the Maker:for
the delay. :He supposed the case slePt, merely becauge it wait
Chancery ; which was of itself' a very sufficient reason. •He
repeated he did not blame the Master, though he-Could not but
observe that the appointment of flapper's in a ;111aster''S Cake'
would be very beneficial.—(Laughter.)—However; hi the yea/
1815 there was aleport, and exception to it; all upon matter
not connected with the main question in dispute; -mere-interlo-
cutory matter, its-it-was called, mere fringe.—(Cheers aria
laughter from the Opposition.)—ln 1818, time, which was
known in the Court of Chancery Only byits loss, was at work
out of doors, and affected the windmill, the main subject in dis-
pute, and which had been forgotten in the able argumenti on the
Interlocutory matter, the fringe. The windmill was gone, was
levelled with the ground, and. was not worth the paper on
which the case for the learned combatants was written:-:
(Laughter.)—Yet such. was .the erroneous opinion formed
by the misguided wretches out of, doors, the people of Chi
chester, where the scene lay, that they exhibited a caricature'
of the Windmill, descriptive of its progress to decay, Niits.
that of the =Chancery. suit towards strength ; an& not un-
aptly dedicated the picture to the Professors of the Law". In..
deed he understood that the caricature was produced 'in
Court. Such was the Boeotian conduct of the people of Chiches-
ter, who had, however redeemed their character for diserinitna=
tion in the choice of theirpresent Representative. The attend-
ances for judgment were numerous indeed. He spoke 'from
a most authentic document, for it' was the Solicitor? Bill,
taxed by the Master.' The judgment was postponed, and fiir=-
ther postponed, term after term, and year after year. Theie•
was then a re-hearing; and, at the end of five years, jUdgddrit,
was given.—[The Hon. and Learned Gentleman hire referred.
to the Solicitors' bill for the various attendances for judgment,
the reading of which excited much laughter.l—The Fund;
ire-
this case; had not-been taken out of. Court; but who was to
blame ? Time—and Time alone. It was not marvelloui that
Time should run on while the Court of Chancery. waited. 'The
Fund ought to hare been divided among creditors.. Andlyete
all delay was denicel ; and the whole was allowed to be 'wisdom;
justice, and dispatch. But. let -confidence or strength:of nerve'
deny it as it would; these were 'facts which spoke fof
selves.—( Hear, bear, hear 1)--Ile again repeated his krioiviedge'
of his own ignorance ; but he had endeavoured- toCoirmenliate
it by patience.—( Hear, hear !)—He would now shortly call the'
attention of the House to the question of Stamps, whiCh liatf -
been alluded to by the Ilon.- Member for Miclhiirst ('Mr;JOIM
Smith) last night.. The Decrees of the Court of Chancdry_WCre
on stamps; each sheet indeedhaving a stamp; and these lie:
crees were of an enormous length, as they contained' all 'tlie
pleadings in the cause -before they came 'to the manditOrY or.
effective part, whieh•very ofen w6iit couipess. He.
had seen one the other day etintaining ninety-four aides, of
which only six were required farcthe -Decree. This -Wag
more vexatious, as all the 'pleadings were already on the files
of the Court. • Those Decrees were three shillings a-side ;'
and he was informed amounted sometimes to as much a's
401. or 501. There was the case of a poor widow named '
nery, brought to his notice, who was entitled to 451: Olit of.
the Court under a suit already decided ; but who was dis
suaded by her solicitor from_ applying for it, as the 'decie-
tal order alone would amount to more than the Money.—
(Hear, hear !)—He would no*. Shortly:tillude to the expellee of
Master's reports, which often contained unnecessary matter;
particularly in cases of reference to ascertain 'the effecte mid'
debts of deceased persons. In there case's the executor's ac- •
count, containing every little hen-11160i to a pair of slippers,
was generally incorporated in the ,Maiteeirreport.--"Thilesg the
House interfered he was convhieed' there would be'rio reineo
at all ; for it would be as.absutd to exteety,that the 'Cotirt silks •
reform itself, as it' was for the Knight eir Tillman-el :to.
pect that his Squire would lash himself ro--aesln In 1119 lizistees"
absence.—(Laughter.)—The next subject to which he would''
allude was the issue of warrants from the MaSter's Offices.
These were in the nature of summonses issued by the Judges
at Common Law, but were often i-stiedin such numbers feii the ".
same hour on the same day, than jostling and quarrelling took'.
place among the Solicitous to obtain pre:audience. 'He woUld.
take that opportunity of Observing, 'that he was convinced the
respectable part of the professidn, called solicitors, were not to '
blame with regard to any one of those grietances. , They made
large advances early in every cause for Counsel's fees and other
heavy expences, and it was therefore 'their interest to haiten
causes to judgment as much as they could ; they would other-
wise lose their labour and work for. nothing—Llret, and he.
begged the House would always bear this in mind, he asked
for nothing but inquiry, contending is he di& that these mat-
ters were fit for consideration. The dead-or Unclaimed fiind
the Court was the neat subject to which he would call their at-
tention. It amounted to about 1,200,0001., and fofthis there
were claimants enough ';- but they were deterted2from corning
forward, in consequence of the difficulties Which were in the
way of their substantiating their claims. These differed from
the Unclabried Dividends at the Bank; an account of which
was published, and for the fair claim • to which, every, fa-;
cility was afforded. In-this, respect -he would beg to re-
commend a practice similar to that of the Bank, by pub-
lishing an annual account- of their unclainied sums.—(Hear,
hear, hear !)—He should next touch on the practice in matters
of bankruptcy. Many proposals had been made to sepa-
rate the jurisdiction of this important branch of our com-
mercial code from the Court of Chancery, to which, indeed,
it did not originally belong. The first statute on this sub-
Ect was passed, he believed, in the reign of Henry, the
Eighth, and the next in that of Elizabeth. The powers
given by these Acts were generally exercised by Commis-
sioners. Until Lord Nottingham's time there was
,no intet-
ference whatever by. the Court of Chancery' with bankrupt pro-
ceedings, and there were very few instances indeed of such
terference before the time of Lord Hardwick,. It was in the
reign of George 11. that ass Act was passed giving the exten-
sive powers now exercised, by the Lord Chancellor ; and he
would confidently ask, whether (when it was admitted that the
business of the Court was overloaded) the jurisdiction as to the
important matters of bankruptcy :ought not to be entirely sever-
ed from it. The prophecies made as the tithe Of the passing of the
ViceXhancellor's Bill had been realised. 'What had been heard
by the Vice-Chancellor had been reAleard by the Lord Chan-
cellor, and the same arrears consequently existed. Thus,when
the Vice-Chancellor was appointed, there were 141 causes to
be heard, and 104 were the number of Appealk from his
Court to the Lord Chancellor. All he demanded was, that
' in-
VirY and deliberation should be instituted upon the case.
he objects of that inquiry, in his opinion, ought to be,
whether the -Appeals to the House of Lords should not be
separated from the office of Lord Chancellor'; and also whe-
ther his judicial should not•be separated from his political cha-
racter. He was called upon to sit in judginent upon the affairs
in.grosii of the whole nation. In consequence he was liable to
ce, and often was, called away in 'the midst of an argument, to
attend other duty. Here was a fertile source of delay ; for
it was clear that the same argument must, on its revival be
repeated nearly all over again. If the unmeasured paßegy;
ries from time to time passed upon that part of the Constitu-
tion which made the Judges independent of the Crown were
true—if this, as had been said, were the consummation of hu-,
man wisdom, why should not the same rule be applied to the
first Judge of the land ? With respect to the, manner in which'
he had backed his motion, it had been objected last year that
he produced his cases frOin but one office. On this 'occasion
be had taken no case from that one, and no two cases from the
same office. It had also been objected against his motion
last year that it was an insidious attack upon the Lord Chan-
cellor; and the late 'Attorney-General now a Noble LOrd,
' said, that if a keener mortification could be conceived to' the
. Lord Chancellor, it would be his (Mr. Williams's) complirr e its.
Now on the present occasion he studiously avoided mention-
ing his name, nor would he mention' it. He was at a loss
to discover the objection to. the inquiry.—(Hear!)—lf the
machinery were found perfect, and the agency faulty, then
they would have the satisfaction of knowing that it was
easier .to change men than a' syStene. If the machinery were
faulty then the question was; what was the cause? If they could
make no approximation to the cause then every man in
,tha
country would have the satisfaction of knowing that they were
suffering under an evil which admitted of no remedy. But if,
on the other hand, it were attempted to screen the Court of
Chancery that House would gain nothing in the estimation of
the country and the Court of Chancery would lose. If his
ompupsoen ernrtaa
tresorted c
otmo
idueml i ehr ate, t
wouldeniat
atisrked,thaenuid
opneethcicut,estibote.

.....what would be the luckless state of the people of Eng-
if the office which took up all the abilities of such
splendid endowment be, when that office descended, as in the
coarse of nature it must, to inferior and therefore incapable
kande ? The more the agent was extolled, he thought the
system was depressed. From the apparent absence of all
pressing business, there could not be a better time than tide for
the appointment of trernefinittee of Inquiry. Ile knew the
time was hot distant when the inquiry would be compelled if
not now granted. But he also knew what he had to contend
against. He knew how weak he must be after the failure of the
most powerful and boldest man this country ever produced—he
meant the Protector Cromwell. In a memorial of Rights
which he made to the House early in his public career, lie re.
pelted the necessity of a speedy reform being made in. the law,
" the intricacy and delay of which," he said, " was a source of
profit to particular men. but of expence and damage to the
whole community." When in the zenith of his power he
attempted to reform the Court of Chancery, at a time when
lawyers were not so many, and when the Lard Chancellor was
nut so powerful, yet he attempted in vain. This failure lie
was said to have expressed somewhat in the following manner :
h.-" I have met the King in the field and conquered him—
the Church I have new modelled and cast as I please—the
people of England I have quelled and still keep down s • but
these lawyers, when I begin to meddle with them I fail, and
am defeated."—(ll laugh.) -The Hon. Gentleman concluded
by inuring, ‘.‘ That a Committee be appointed to inquire into
the delays and expenses of the Court of Chancery, and the
causes thereof."
The motion having been Seconded, and put from the Chair,
Mt. Secretary P BEL rose. It was unnecessary, he said,
for him to preface the few observations he had to offer by
.
phoreming his total incompetency to enter into those details,
into which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had entered,
his oh.al inability to do which must be, as notorious as it was
clear that none but professional men_coidd., He should leave his
and Learned Friends, who sat on :each side of him, the
task of performing that duty, provided it should appear to
them that it was a duty required at their hands. Whether or
no they were prepared to answer cases of which they
had had no previous information; or satisfactorily to ac-
count for the delays, or state the causes of them in each par-
, titular case cited, he knew not ; but in his view of this
important question, it was not at all necessary to enter into
the minute details which had been brought forward.—(Cheers
from the Opposition, returned from the Ministerial Benches.)
eht least if it were necessary that these should be minutely
examined, then the least that the House had a right to expect,
was some previous intimation on the subject.—(Cheers.)—ln
no other way could they hope to see justice done to the ques-
tion: But his sole reason for following the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman on a subject of this nature was, that it had for some
time received the attention .of his Majesty's Government, and
he thought it due to the House that he should thus early
state the view which they took of the matter. He assured
.tie Noble Lord opposite, who had already in a very irregular
'manner interrupted him, that it was not within his competence
to prevent him from delivering his opinion.—(Cheers.)—Pro.
feseing, therefore, his intention of avoiding the legal details,
he should proceed to the general consideration of the question.
And he thought the House would admit that he fairly. stated
the question betwixt it and the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
who had delivered his discourse in a tone of so much ability
.end moderation, when he stated it to be whether there were
.delays in the ourt of Chancery ;if so, what was tie cause
-or what prefatory inquiry should he entered into with the
view of ascertaining.—(Hear, hear !)---The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman had said, that it was the hale it of the House to de-
. dare upon this subject, in a tone of confidence and boldness
that knew no parallel, that there were no delays and no griev-
ances. While he had been in that House, lie must confess he
had never heard such a denial. For the last twelve years, on
the contrary, the attention of the House had been called to the
subject, and remedies had been attempted. In 1813, when the
Vice-Chancellor's Bill was brought in, and discussed, were the
existence of delays denied ? Last year when the subject of the
Appellant jurisdiction was looked into by the House was the
sentence of delay denied ? He (Mr. Sec. Peel) then admitted
- that he was not competent to deny those days. There were
delays and grievances in that Court, and he admitted this with
the less hesitation, as he was prepared to prove that it could
not be imputed as matter of crimination to any one. He was
Prepared to prove to the satisfaction of all who would grant
/dm their attention, that the evils complained of had proceeded
from the increase of business in the Court of Chancery, which
no intellectual or physical strength could meet. If any man
would compare the business of the Court of Chancery now
with the quantity of business at a remoter period, viz. sixty or
seventy years ago, he would find presumptive proof a priori
that there must be an enormous increase. It was indeed im-
possible that the population of England, which had doubled
since those times, should not have brought with it a great in-
crease of that nature. The same conclusion must present itself
if they looked at the increase of property in the country.
and particularly of funded property, which was peculiarly of
that kind which led to an increase in Chancery business._
. The House would see then how this presumption was fortified
by a reference to some details to which he_hoped for the same
..here of attention from the House as the Hon. and Learn-
ed Neiiiteer nail received, when detailing that which excited so
much nierriment. fle would first begin by showing the
number of orders for hearing Lunatic Petitions, during three
periods. These statements were from undoubted autho-
rity, and Would be found appended to the Reports of Com-
mittees of that House. The House would be aware that
this was a most important branch of business. During Lord
Hardwicke's Chancellorship, from 1737 to 1746, there were
484 Orders on Lunatic Petitions. From 1801 to 1810, the
same length of time, by Lord Eldon, there were 1,189, which
was more than double; and from 1814 to 1823, the number of
Orders had increased to 2,531, which was five times the number
that were made by Lord Hardwicke in the same space of time.
When, therefore, delays were imputed, and made the channel
of a personal attack, which the whole tenour of the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman's speech proved, especially that part where
he detailed all the attendance to hear judgment—when this
delay was made the subject of a personal attack, they were
bound to look at the quantity of business in reality done.—
(near 1)—It turned out then that in lunatic petitions alone five
times as much had been done by Lord Eldon as by his prede-
cessor. Here then he was fortified in the statement lie had
made, that the business of the Court of Chancery had consider-
ably increased. He would next ask the House to look at the
Appeals to the House of Lords. These it would be found stood
as follow :

From 1750 to 1760 - - - 107 Appeals.
1760 to 1770 - - - 272
1891 to 1810 - - - 490
shewing an increase of more than double within the same
space of time. The same result would still present itself were
they to examine another department of the business of the
Court of Chancery—lie meant the Commissions of Bankruptcy.
Here they would find that from 1770 to 1790, there were 719 in
each year. From 1790 to 1800, there were 1,000 in each year;
and for the last 12 years, there had beet' 2,000 per ann., which
was nearly 3 times as much as was done in the same space by
the present Chancellor's predecessor. He had further proofs,
however, of the increase of business in the Court, and the con-
eequent diligence of the Noble Lord now presiding. This he
drew from a reference to the number of Bilk filed. In 1800,
they would be found to be 1,445; in 1820-2;071 ; and in 1823-
2,327 ; she wing an increase of nearly double. There was a further
criterion of this increase in the amount of property belonging
to suitors in the Court, and to this he would also refer, and
with the same success as to his original position. In 1740 the
balances in the hands of the Accoantant of the Court amounted
to 1,290,0001.—in 1820 they amounted to 34,000,0001. —(Hear !)
He was perfectly aware that it might be said that this accutnu-
lation was a proof of the delays complained of; and it would
certainly be a matter of difficulty to ascertain how much of this
increase was to be attributed to the number of suits, and how
much the effect of delay. He was prepared, however, to meet
this objection, by drawing the attention of the House to the
gradual but regular increase of the amount of these balances.
For this purpose he should present to the House accounts in
distinct periods of twenty years, and it would be seen that the
sum had invariably doubled itself in every 20 years. In 1740
it was 1,200,0001. In 1761) the amount was 3,000,0001. In
1780 it would be found more than doubled—it was then seven
millions ; and with these periods it would be observed the pre-
sent Chancellor had nothing to do. Then from 1780 to 1800,
when the total was found to be seventeen millions ; and lastly;
in 1820, when it was thirty-four millions.—(Hear, hear !)
These were convincing proofs that whatever was the cause,
there was an enormous increase which it was beyond the power
of human strength to meet. The five criteria which he had
produced rendered it impossible to resist the overwhelm.
ing proof that the general business of the Court of Chancery
had increased in a five-fold ratio. When, therefore delay was
imputed to the Noble Lord at the head of that Court, the
quantity of business lie had to perform ought to be taken into
account.—( Hear, hear, hear !)—When lie considered the
manifold, important duties attached to the office of that
Noble Lord. he hoped it would not be imputed to the preju-
dices or partiality of friendship if he said that he was astonish-
ed at the human ability and strength which he displayed in
discharging so much of those duties as he did. When they
lookal at the rate of two thousand bankruptcy commissions
per annum, issued during the last ten years, and the thousands
of lunatic petitions, the only question for the House was, whe-
ther it was possible for human powers to do more. Let them
judge of the nature of his attendance in the House of Lords,
from what two cases only had demanded from him. He alluded
to the Berkeley and Roxbugh cases. A Committee of Privileges
hsd sat upon one from the hours of ten to four—in all 3-1 days !
The Roxburgh had occupied 26 days; and 44 in the Peerage
—thus 70 in the whole. In what way then, he asked, was his.

Noble Friend to go through duties of such a nature as these ? If
he did his duty to the House of Lords, was it surprising that there
should be some small delays in the Court of Chancery ? Upon the
evidence of a most respectable Gentleman, Mr. Cooper, it ap-
peered that one Counsel in the Roxburgh cause, and he begged to
say that in a question of time it was necessary to apportion even
the labours of Couneel.—(flear from the Opposition side.)-e-He
hoped he should not find himself in the same perplexity as
Oliver Cromwell, in meddling with lawyers; but he again
said that it was necessary to proceed in the way he was pro-
ceeding, when iCenisuse of time was charged. Now as to the
time occupied by one counsel, it was 18—minutes some would
say—hours, those who were uncontionable ; but he stated
what was on record, only eighteen days, had been consumed
by one Learned Member of the profession.—( Laughter. )—lf
there was any mistake, it was not his ; it would be found in
evidence before a Committee appointed in 1810. He thought
then he might fairly assume, that what he had stated was a
complete vindication of the Lord Chancellor, as far as delays
were imputed to his neglect. It was impossible that any abili.
ties or constitution, however strong, could do more.—(Hear,
hear;!)—He was proceeding, step by step, and he was al-
ways glad in the course of his argument to receive in-
timation of assent or dissent; and if Honourable Gentle-
neen opposite admitted to him that he had famished a vin-
dication for the Noble Lord, he (Mr. Secretary Peel) would
admit to them that it was impossible to deny that the time was
come when the whole subject must undergo complete investi-
gation.—(Cheers.)--The house would perhaps recollect that
last year the House of Lords had appointed a Committee on the
subject of the appellant jurisdiction, and that Committee came
to the same conclusion as he had just expressed. In their Re-
port they observed that, " it is manifestly impossible that any
person holding the Great Seal, can find time for the business of
the Court of Chancery and the House of Lords, and all the other
great and arduous duties of his high office." They recorded in
this report the separation of the Scotch causes from the office, and
the labours of the new appointment for that purpose had met
with entire success, and given every satisfaction. In conclu-
sion, the report noticed the multiplicity of business in the Court
ofChancery ; but beyond the advising the removal of the Lunatic
Petitions end Bankruptcy business, professed their inability to
indicate the remedy. All the orders of former Lord Chancel-
lors respecting the practing of the Court had been under the
consideration of his Noble riend, the Lord Chancellor of Eng.
land ; and he had also given advice to the Crown to appoint a
Commission, under the Great Seal, to consider,of all the im-
portant subjects embraced by the Repot L—(Hear, hear, hear!)
—This Commission, it was proposed, should inquire into pre-
cisely the same topics as proposed by the HQn. and Learned
Gentleman himself, with the single exception of the union of
the judicial and political character of the Lord Chancellor, a
subject to which, in his opinion, neither a Committee of that
House, nor a commission of the kind alluded to were altogether
the best fitted for discussing. He was sure the Honourable and
Learned Gentleman would not wish a question involving so
important a change in the constitution of the country to be
lightly dealt with. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman spoke
of a decree of 90 folios, upon which he (Mr. Secretary Peel)
was not prepared to deny that it would be better had 84 been
struck out. He thought as a question of expence it was in
every way desirable. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman also
asked why the Accountant of the Court of Chancery should not
publish a list of unclaimed dividends as the Bank of England
did. As an unlearned man he (Mr. Secretary P.) saw no reason
why this sort of publicity should not be given to funds of the
kind ; and he certainly should support that view of the case
unless he haard good arguments against it. lie thought the
whole progress of the suit, from beginning to the end, ought to
he examined, in order to see where delays were interposed by
the Solicitor or Counsel.—(Hear, hear !)—With respect to the
removal of the Bankruptcy businesa from the Lord Chancellor,
a branch which did not belong to the original constitution of
his office, but had devolved upon hint by Act of Parliament,
lie had already admitted that he had too much business, and
had no difficulty in admitting that that ipestion would be
fair matter for inquiry. Authorities the most competent would
be appointed for the proposed enquiry. He should, perhaps,
find great difficulty in persuading the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman opposite that the whole object of his speech was not to
prevent his Committee from being appointed.--(Hear ! from
Mr. Williams.)—He did, however, declare, that a Commission
under the Great Seal was a mode of enquiry far better adapted
to the subject than any Committee of that House. He would
suppose that they would call in aid those great luminaries of
the law who had retired from public life the Judges and others.
retired
.
He would ask the House, with the aid. of such characters as
rLord
fom tßheeddeissdchalaer ge and Grant,
of their public uiewith
bation, whether the investigation was• not likely t 6 proceed with
t
universal wh
o
up
better success than in a Committee of that House, which could
not have the benefit of such assistance. It was a Commission
of such a nature, that the Lord Chancellor had advised his
Majesty to appoint. But to appoint such a Committee as was
proposed by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, coupled with
what had pawed upon a similar motion last year. would, in his
opinion, have the appearance of criminating that Noble Lord;
and if he divided alone, he would never consent to any course
having that tendency towards an illustrious character who had
administered justice in the highest Court in the realm for 22
years. He was then before them in his judicial, not his poli-
tical, capacity. His judicial conduct was above all praise.—
He thought, and ever should that no individual who had ever
served the public had beenmore the object of unmerited ob-
loquy and attack than the present Lord Chancellor. Charges
had been brought against him which he could not notice. He
was represented as a mad of enormous wealth, resisting every
reform tending to reduce his profits. On his conscience he
believed that nothing was more false than this. The profits
of his office were the same as ever they had been, and was
here any man in the country who believed that it would be
advisable that the high office of Lord Chancellor should not"
be splendidly endowed ? After all deductions, the profits
of his office for the last three years had not been mote than
twelve thousand pounds a year !—(Hear hear, hear !)__God
forbid that money should be the rule ofi official integrity
but it was a miserable and petty policy to permit the of ce of
Lord Chancellor to he divested of its emoluments. If the
duties of Lord Eldon's office had ever increased so that he
was unable to discharge them, he had always expressed a with
that it should be defrayed out of his own emoluments. Half
the expence of the Vice-Chancellor's appointment had been
defrayed by him, and he had wished the, whole to be taken
front him. When such base insinuations were promulgated
against him these traits of character ought to be made
known to the public, who had an interest in the reputation of
public officers. He had splendidly endowed offices in his own
gift out of his own pocket for the benefit of the public. A.
new arrangement had been requisite in the office of the Se-
cretary of Bankruptcy, where too many holidays were allowed.
Lord Eldon had ordered that attendance should be given every
day; and it had never been known till that moment, lie believed,
that the necessary endowment for this purpose came out of his
own pocket.—(Hear !)—ln the space of 7 years that illustrious
individual had paid 13,0001. out of the proceeds of his own pro-
fessional labour towards the reform of an office doing the duty of
the public.—(Hear !)—This was instance enough, he hoped, to
refute the charges against him. They had the respectable au-
thority of Sir Samuel Romilly, he was sorry to say, for asserting
that the Noble Lord gave his attention particularly to Lunatic
and Bankruptcy business because the profits were great. On
the one score he received not a sixpence, although often
obliged, from the urgency of the case, to give his immediate at-
tention to such matters. He had now been for many days en-
gaged upon a Bankruptcy Petition, on which he would receive
a fee of twelve shillings and sixpence, and that was all. l f
hesitation were sometimes vissible in his conduct, it was
a failing on the, side of virtue, proceeding from an unwil-
lingness to pronouhce a decree which was to raise one party
to affluence at the expence of total ruin to another. And surely
for such a fault, if well founded, they would not allow an indi-
vidual, who had served the country for 22 years, endowed
with such splendid qualifications and such unexampled in.
tegrity to be harshly aspersed ; He trusted that his great talents
and spotless integrity would weigh something in the scale.
But when it was sliewn that the evils complained of were satis-
factorily accunted for by the frequent calls which were made
for his attendance upon other duties than those of the Court of
Chancery, there was no room for accusation. He (Mr. Secre-
tary Peel) had often had to call his attention off from the busi-
ness of the Court. When the Recorder presented his list to the
King, the Lord Chancellor had to attend and advise the Sove-
reign upon every case. In one instance where there were 40
capital cases, he had only given him notice the day before.
He had therefore but that short space to read through every
case, and extract notes of them. Upon retiring from the busi-
ness of the Court of Chancery, he immediately applied him-
self to this arduous task, and continued at it till the next
morning's sun rose, and found him so occupied.—(Hear, hear!)
Was it possible le cast blame where a man was thus engaged
in the various important duties of his station ? If the evils
complained of proceeded from idleness, or the propensities of
the individual, it might be different ; but when for 22 years he
had denied himself every indulgence, abandoned the society
of the world, it was impossible to do any thing but adMire the
individual. He hoped no personal feeling would ever prevent
that House from instituting inquiry into any subject ; but when
he remembered how this motion was prefaced last year, he
could not break the continuity of it with the present occasion ;
and he was sure the public would unite the two. He, for one,
therefore, could never consent to it ; and he implored the House
not to do so, and if they did not, the country, he was satisfied,
would confirm their decision. The people of this country were
not ungrateful; and when they saw justice administered as it
had been for 22 years, by a family whose name would illustrate
the judicial records of the country in after-times as that ofSeott
must do, if that House refused to cast a personal stigma, or the
appearance of one on Lord Eldon, he sincerely believed the peo..

ple of this country generous enough to applaud the decision.
(The Right Hon. Gentleman sat down amidst the unanimous
cheers of the House.)
Mr. ABERCROMBY congratulated his Hon. and Learned
Friend on the success of his labours, although he could not
congratulate the country on the-result of them without some
qualification. That the country would believe they owed this
success to his Honourable and Learned Friend, no one ,he.
thought could doubt. They would certainly regard it :is a
capitulation at the opening of the second campaign. The
attention of the Commissioners ought to be called to the
effect of the Vice-Chancellor's appointment. The Vice-
Chancellor had got through the business of his Court with
scarcely any arrears, which induced him to believe that the
difficulty was not so eeseat of finding a Chancellor competent to
the labours of the office.. But the tact was, causes were heard
before the Vice-Chancellor, and re-argued immediately before
the Chancellor. The whole merit of the Commission would
depend, in his opinion, on the composition of it, and the in.
tentions of those who had the appointment of the Members.
For his part he must say that lie had no great confidence in
those who had the appointment of this Commission : for nothing
that his Hon. and Learned Friend had advanced could be con-
sidered as a discovery on his part—it must all have been known
to those who would have the appointment of this Commission.
If the Lord Chancellor adopted the views of his defenders on
the other side of the House in deeming this motion a personal
attack upon himself, then he should say it was not in human
nature that he could impartially appoint the Members. If it
was his dearest friend, he should see he was the last man to
have any hand in the appointment of the Members of such a
Commission.—(Hear!)—He would not trust him ; and the pub.
lic, he was sure, would not be satisfied.
Mr. LOCKHART said, that as the Right Hon. Gentleman
had agreed, to appoint a Commission, little was left for him to
say. The House, however, by acquiescing in that proposition
would nos part with the power they had still to discuss the mat-
ter, in case the report of the Commissioners should not prove
satisfactory.—(Hear !)—He hoped that his Majesty's Commis-
sion for that of inquiry would soon be laid before the House, and
he hoped likewise that the proceedings of the Commissioners
would from time to time be made known to the House,—(Hear !)
—and then, if the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was not satis-
fied, he would still have it in his power to renew his motion.—.
'He was of opinion that the House ought not to proceed any far-
ther with the question at resent;p and the only observation he
wished to add was, that if even the /louse should deem it ne-
cessary to have a Committee, they would be considerably aided
in their investigation by the valuable information that might be
given them by the proposed Commission.
Mr. BROUGHAM did not think the House need consider
itself pledged to the prosecution of this motion. They would
have full intelligence as to the appointment of the Commission,
and of the object of its inquiry; anti if it should not approve
of these, there was nothing that he knew of to prevent a re-
newal and re•diseussion. of his motion. He congratulated the
House on the great talents displayed by the Honourable
Member for Lincoln in bringing this subject before them,
and on the practical result which had rewarded his labours.
But for his exertions he thought there were few who would
not doubt if it would have oc e red to the Lord Chancellor
to call for that inquiry which wee now intended to take place.
With respect to the mode of proceeding by Commission, he
had less reason to object to it than another, as he had sug-
gested such a course on a former occasion. With respect
to the Scotch Courts, every thing which depended on the
choice of those who were to form that Commission, that
the Lord Chancellor should take upon himself the trouble
of nominating the Commissioners who were to enteron the pro-
posed inquiry—that he, whose frailty was indecision, as his
friends admitted, to answer or avoitt other charges--that he
should undertake to decide on the state of hie own Court, and
be the judge of his conduct, was the most incomprehensible
thing he could have imagined, was the greatest anomaly, and
most inconsistent proceeding that could have been recommend-
sed. If the Commissioners were to be so appointed, he would not
say that nothing was to be expeoted from them ; but this he
must say, that his hopes of them accomplishing the object in
view were very moderate indeed. He had no hesitation in say-
ing, that but for the infusion of those persons who went from
this country into the Commission for Inquiry into the state of
the Scotch Courts,
_ the report which it must have produced
would in all probability have been useless, or worse than use-
less. If the Commission now promised were to consist wholly
of lawyers, it was a mockery to say that good could be ex-
pected from it ; for, with their habits, those forms and usages,
which would appear to, others such as to call for immediate
interference, would with them pass for matters of course.—
As all abuses and all delays were not confined to Courts
of Equity, he thought a similar Commission might be ad-
vantageously granted to institute a similar inquiry into
the Common Courts of Law. At present, in many cases,
it was for the interest of the parties sued to acquiesce in
an unjust demand rather than stand to the consequences of
legal proceedings,
however good their case might be. An in-
quiry into these Courts would therefore be likely to prove be-
neficial : and he hoped the House, viewing this subject as lie
did, would think that they had better begin with the commis-
sion now intended to be granted than
Gentlemen for the
than end with it. Upon
the whole, grateful to the Honourable
advantages already gained, and lie should be glad to see
the inquiry proceed,
„ no compromise having been made
on the s
; Part
and of
he the h
eouo
rsee' but
unfettered to watch its Ptogress, and act according to circum-
stances; loped the House remaining perfectly
ped the Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man would, under the circumstance, not take the sense of the
House on his motion, but wait to see what would result from
the Commission.
t ntelii•f
Mr. Secretary CANNING said, in the present state of the
debate,
le and after the rearned ecommendation just given by the Ho-
nourab L
-entleman to his Honourable and
Learned Friend, it was not
neceesary, nor was it his in-
tention to detain the House more than a very few minutes.
But after the speeches which had followed that of his Right
Hon. Friend, on the proposed mode of conducting the inquiry,
it seemed proper for some Minister to rise, in order to satisfy
the House, that it was the determination, not only of the Noble
Lord with whom the plan originated, but also of his Majesty's
Government, that the inquiry should be made as seriously, as
sincerely, and as efficaciously as possible. It was desirable
not to trifle with the House, and he was sure an inquiry
would not have been consented to at this time of day, had it not
been the wish of Ministers that the subject should be pursued to
a final, and, if possible, to a beneficial settlement. The objec-
tions urged against the present system were, first, the loss of
time attendant on proceedings in Chancery ; secondly, the ex-
pence ; and thirdly, what was most important of all, the great
mass of business required to be transacted by one high officer.
The Commissioners were to inquire if these charges were well
founded. In stating the question to be solved, he begged that
he might not be understood to consider it as decided. Ile
begged that he might not be supposed to assume the affirma-
tive. This only he undertook to advance, that it was the sin-
cere wish of the Government to have the whole subject fully
investigated, and every thing in their power would be done to
render the inquiry efficient, and the result most beneficial to
the country. As to the composition of the Commission, though
the elements of it were known, it was not easy to state
individual names, as those who had been applied to might still
hesitate about giving their aid to the undertaking. It would,
however, be the object of Government to form the Commission
so that to the eyes of the world it should distinctly appear that
they would perform their duty without fear or favour, and with
that knowledge of the subject which should satisfy the wishes
of the House. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had given it
as his opinion that the Commission would be more efficient if
it were instructed to extend its inquiries to the Courts of Com-
mon Law. He put it to the candour of the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman himself whether, if this had been done, it might not
have been supposed to be the object of Ministers to dilute and
weaken the effect of the inquiry by spreading it over so many
objects ? Whatever might be done hereafter, he thought his
Right Hon. Friend was right in confining the labours of the
present Commission to the Courts of Equity ; but doing so, the
House and the Government were not precluded from instituting
similar inquiries into the Common Courts of Law at any filmic
opportunity, in order to cancel any defects that might exist, and
to regulate, improve, and simplify the administration of justice.
It was for these purposes that the Commission was to be ap-
pointed, and he had nn doubt that the House being made ac-
quainted with every thing relating to it from its origin to its
termination, would be satisfied with the result. He could not
let one observation pass which had fallen from the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman, who had supposed this commission to
have been contemplated in consequence of the former exer-
tions of his Hon. and Learned Friend. He would not say
that these had no effect, for how was it possible to speak to
the mixed motives which dictated every resolution ; but this
he could say, that the date of it was as old as the Report made
by the Lords' Committee last year, since which the Government
had been constantly occupied with the scheme now before the
House. That such was their intention he was sure the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman would see could not have been avowed
before his notice being before the House, without rendering
themselves liable to the imputation which had now been cast
on them, with the additional imputation that they were afraid
of meeting a debate. It was therefore thought better not
to announce the design till the Honourable and Learned
Gentleman brought the subject forward, and stated his facts to
the House, and he would do that Hon. and Learned Gentle.
man the justice to say, that the tone which lie had taken on this
occasion was such (though no tone could have altered their
purpose) as to afford considerable facilities to the accomplish.
ment of this common object. He would do him the justice to
say, that if it were possible for his speech to be retracted, it
would not be desirable, and no speech could have better pre-
pared the way for the proposed inquiry. lie was confident if
the purpose of the House could be attained, that there was not

one of those who came there charged with the most efficient ar-
tillery to level at the Lord Chancellor—he did not mean against
him personally, but against his official conduct, who would not
be glad to be spared the trouble of using their instruments. If
the redress of Justice claimed their attention, and this was all
they could honestly, wisely, and candidly aim at, they would
feel that to pursue the inquiry beyond that point, would not
be public spirit, but individual persecution. He was quite
sure the House would be glad to carry this great point in a
manner which would be satisfactory to that distinguished cha-
racter who had so long adorned the high situation which he
filled, to whom no sinister motives bad been imputed, but
whose character was as pure and as unsullied now as it was at
the commencement of his career. Whether Lord Eldon was
destined to be the last Lord Chancellor, or whether measures
could be devised for enabling that high officer to execute all
the functions which had hitherto belonged to it, this he hoped
would be the result, rather than that they should be sepa-
rated. His Lordship would proudly stand before the world
as having discharged them all in a manner which deserved,
and which had obtained, the admiration of mankind. Were
the duties of the office divided, it would lessen the splen-
dour of that eminent profession of which the Lord Chan-
cellor was the head. He never wished to see the legal and
political functions of the office separate:,., coeval as they
were with the Monarchy under which they existed. To alter
the office in this respect would be to withdraw from the Crown
one of its most dazzing prerogatives. He believed he had
remarked on a former occasion, to which the Honourable and
Learned Gentleman had done him the honour to refer, when
he (Mr. Secretary Canning) opposed the Vice-Chancellor's Bill,
he held it to be one of the most splendid prerogatives of the So-
vereign, that he could take the meanest lawyer in Westminster
Hall--he spoke as to connections and prospects, but still rich
in talent and acquirements, and place him at once on the Wool-
sack, and at the head of the Peerage. He could not readily
consent to give up this beautiful prerogative, blending as it
did the main elements of our happy Constitution, in which the
essence of monarchy was found the best and surest support of
the democratic interest, and of the general liberties of the coun-
try.—(Hear !)--When they heard of the inconvenience of the
union of legal and political functions in the Lord Chancellor,they
ought to look, on the other side, to the inconveniences which
flow from their separation. What would be the situa-
tion of the Lord Chancellor, if an individual were placed at
the head of the Law, who could not stand up to serve his country
as a Statesman ? How would the Crown be limited in its choice
under such circumstances ? If they lowered the standard of pub-
lic men they would do a permanent mischief; whilst they fancied
themselves to be correcting an abuse. That union of legal and
political functions of which he spoke was no abuse. Not more
than twice in our history, much as they .had heard on this sub,
jest, had political motives been known to influence the con-
duct of English judges. If abuses in this respect had twice
occurred, he believed the state of society now to be such that
they could never occur again, and he was satisfied that in try-
ing to reach that abstract excellence which would prevent the
possibility of it, they would destroy, not the Lord Chancellor,
but they would destroy and stunt that race of men who were
growing up to fill eminent situations for the service of their
country—( Hear, hear!).—With this exception he agreed with
the principle which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite
had in view. He was willing to conduct the inquiry in such a
manner as should give him satisfaction, and was glad that he
and his friends appeared to approve of the determination of Go-
vernment.
Mr. BROUGHAM, in explanation, said he had not wished
the present commission to extend its inquiries to the Common
Law Courts, but had wished for the appointment of another for
that purpose.
Mr. WILLIAMS replied at some length. He disapproved
of a Commission being appointed to conduct this inquiry, con-
sisting wholly of legal men, as he knew of no body whatever
more likely to favour forms, which might be fairly objected to
by others, than that body to which he had the honour to belong.
If this plan were persevered in, he would tell the country that
it was a deception to maintain that the labours of such a Com-
mission would be effectual. But let the experiment be tried.
suTn, motionhht
e rThat
c-hi e
If the end were accomplished it would be well--if the Commis-
hi
sioners failed, there would then be felt a hundred times the
anxiety which now prevailed to pry into the abuses in the
Court of Chancery. He rejoiced that he had brought the sub-
ject forward on this occasion. Remembering the unmeasured
refusal which met a proposition of the same kind when last it
was submitted to the House, he was glad that it had met with
a different reception now. He re-stated what he had said on
the subject of the political functions of the Lord Chancellor,
and concluded by expressing his anxious wish that the inquiry
might be
Tc red
Hu cotne d.
ainnd such
e ar
nae
dm
Ga nennedre
mas a
nwouldn s awtii
tshflyd
rtehwe
IcoANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved__
i
Report of the Committee on the Four per Cent.
Acts should be brought up."
Mr. HUME suggested that it might be desirable to postpone
the bringing up of tills Report, in order that it should be taken
at:an earlier hour on a future evening.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER saw no rea-
son for postponing the Report. It was generally considered de-
sirable after a question of this kind had once received the sanc-
tion of the House in a Committee that it was usual to em-
body it in a bill without loss of time, and as in that shape the
proposition would again come before the House, he saw no
cause for delaying the report.
After a brief conversation, in which Mr. Baring, the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, Sir J. Newport, and Mr. Calcraft par.
ticipated, the report was brought up, and agreed to.
NOTICE RESPECTING THE FOUR PER CENTS.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that
Mr. Speaker should forthwith give notice, that the Four per
Cent. Annuities were to be redeemed, and paid off.
Mr. HUME wished to know if a like notice bad been given
to certain public bodies who had lent the country 400,0001.
Mr. HUSKISSON said the Royal Assurance Office and the
Bank of England had each advanced 200,0001. for the public
service. These loans were obtained at five per cent. interest.
When the rate of interest fell, he had given notice to them
to accept of a lower rate of interest, or be paid off. They had
agreed to do the former. It might now be fit to consider
whether any further reduction should be claimed.
The motion was agreed to.

AUSTRIAN LOAN.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that
the House should go into a Committee on the Austrian Loan
Act.

• Mr. HUME wished to know whether a Loan, formerly granted
to Russia, as he believed to enable her to make war against this
country, and on which interest at the rate of 5 per cent. was paid,
could be paid off', or the interest reduced.
The !CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could not
give an immediate answer to the qustion. The subject had
recently attracted his attention. If any thing of the kind sug-
gested by the Hon. Gentleman could be done, he should be
very happy to do it.
Mr. BARING stated the loan to hare been obtained, not to
go to war with England, but to enable the Empress Catherine
to subjugate Poland.
The House then went into the Committee.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved two
Resolutions, declaring the Austrian Loan discharged by the
present repayment, and adding the amount which remained to
the general debt of the country, which, after some unimportant
and uninteresting observations from several Members of the
House, were agreed to.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved ano-
ther Resolution to meet the charge for interest, which was
agreed to.
All the Resolutions haring been agreed to, the House re-
sumed, and the report was ordered to be received to-morrow.
MUTINY BILL.
Lord PALMERSTON brought in the Mutiny Bill.
Mr. HUME asked whether it was a copy of the Bill of last
year ?
Lord PA LMERSTON described the Bill to be a transcript
of the measure of last year.
The Bill was read the first time, and ordered to be read the
second time to-morrow.

Mr. S. RICE postponed his Motion, which stood for Wed-
nesday, to Monday.
The House adjourned at Half-past Eleven.

LIST OF THE MINORITY
Who toted for Mr. Hume's Admendment for the Reduction o;
the Regular Army 73,000 to 63,000 men.
Denman, Thos. Russell, W. TELLERS.
Hobhouse, J. C. Tennyson, C. Bennet, Hon. H. Q,
Johnstone, W. A. Whitbread, W. H. Hume, J.
Ingilby, Sir W. Wood, M.

The Grand Duke of Mecklenburg has ap.
pointed Mr. HENRY PwritasoN, at Malaga, Con-
sul and General Agent for the Principality of
Mecklenburg.
A commercial Letter from the Elbe, dated the
_ _ .

10th inst., says, our Greenlandmen have begun
fitting out for the fishery : eight ships are pre-
paring at Gluckstadt, 3at Altona, 2at narn-
burgh, 6 at Bremen, and 5 from Flushing,
Itzehoe, &c. The Danish bounty of 10 dollars
per last on the tonnage of the ships belonging to
Denmark, is to continued two years longer, i. e.
till January, 1826.