The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-22 00:00:00

thing, that that number might be diminished. They
were employed at present altogether not more
than six weeks in the year, and some fews days more in
small debts, but altogether the time was something
about a quarter, at least not a third, of a year. It
would naturally be said that he (Lord Brougham)
ought to take blame to himself. But, as his
Noble Friend opposite well knew, he (Lord
Brougham) was the only person out of eleven
that examined the old ,system, and introduced the
present alterations, and out of eleven persons he was
the only one that did not think six Commissioners
were enough. He recollected he had a struggle to
keep the number so low as it was ; Sir Thomas Wilde,
now Lord Chief Justice of the Common Pleas, and Sir
Frederick Pollock, now Chief Baron of the Exchequer,
both opposed him, the one being for twelve and the
other for fourteen Commissioners. He (Lord Brougham)
was obliged to come t' a compromise that the number
should be seven ; but by a clerical error it was made six,
which error he (Lord Brougham) took advantage of,
and would not allow it to be amended. lie gave their
Lordships notice that he would introduce a Bill making
some necessary alterations in these matters. He moved
that the present return should be amended.

in some districts to induce them to pursue the system of
clearing the land. The effect was that a great
burden was imposed upon certain unions. He
felt that this would press most unjustly on the popu-
lation, for they would not only have to support their own
poor, but also the destitute persons that would be thrown
upon them. He would rather the measure was ex-
tended to three years than limited to twelve months.

the intention of the Government to lay upon the table
of the House copies of the new constitution of Prussia?
Lord PALMERSTON said that it was not usual for
the Government to lay before the House documents
relating so entirely to the internal management of the
affairs of other nations. If, however, the House wished to
have those documents, ho would not object to their pro-
duction. He would, however, advise the Hon. Member
not to press for their production.
The subject then dropped.
PUBLIC WORKS (IRELAND).
Lord CLE&tENTS wished, in the absence of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, to call the attention of
the Honourable Gentleman the Secretary for Ire-
land to this circumstance. The House had been informed
that Government abuses had taken place in con-
nexion with the public works in Ireland. Now,
he wished to know, as he believed these abuses had
been carried further, and had been committed by persons
not exactly connected with these works, whether the
Government had taken any steps in the matter, and
whether the accounts of the different baronies would be
audited ?

The Earl of RODEN had seen with great satisfaction
the excellent measures which had been introduced, he
might say so boldly, by her Majesty's Ministers for the
relief of Ireland, though he must at the same time say
that he was pleased to hear that the Noble Marquis had
consented to postpone the third reading of this Bill as
the delay might - allow for any improvement of
which it was susceptible. He had only two days ago come
up from Ireland and could bear his testimony to the suffer-
ing and distress which prevailed in Ireland. He could not
but also express his great satisfaction at the other Bill
which had been introduced—he meant that for allowing
the sale of property in Ireland to pay off mortgages;
for without that he believed that all the other measures
together would be next to useless, for it was useless to
attempt to levy a tax for the relief of the poor on the
possessors of property unless they granted this relief.
Most of the entailed estates in that country are heavily
mortgaged. and if a man was presumed to have 100,000/.
a year, the great probability was that in the majority of
cases he only enjoyed a rental of 2,0001., so that, with-
out the power to divest himself:gut* his liabilities, they
would actually subject him to a tax, as if he
were a 100,000 L man, when in reality he was
only a 2,000/. a year man. Then as to the great
measure for the relief of the poor, he thought that some
alterations should be made as to the extent of the dis-
tricts; for it appeared to him that it would be most unjust
to limit the unions to the extent of the electoral districts,
and in his opinion it appeared to be better to de-
fine the districts by the size of the towns. Take, for in-
stance, a large town for a district, and then in another
part of the country combine several smaller towns into
a district, so that the population of the several districts
might bear a proportion to each other. Then, again, as
to the relief that was to be granted, he thought that
there should be some restriction to be placed upon it,
especially where the applicant for relief was the holder
of any land. In this country it would never be allowed
that relief should be given to a man who held a farm, so
long as he continued to hold that land.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE observed that the
discussion which had just taken place referred rather to
another Bill not before the House, than to the one under
consideration ; but he thought, nevertheless, that
it would be productive of good. There had
been considerable difference of opinion, whether
the rating should fall on the union, or
the electoral division, and it was, therefore, proposed to
make this an open question for the consideration of
Parliament. With regard to towns, he was sanguine
enough to hope that a provision applicable to them would
be 'introduced, and which would obviate the difficulty
He wished it to be understood, however, that the clause
-which had been introduced into the latter Bill by the
Noble Duke (Wellington), as to in door relief,
would be left intact, and the new principle, what-
ever arrangement may be come to with respect
to it, would only apply to the out-door
relief proposed to be given, without food.
He had the pleasure of announcing to their Lordships,
that in order to expedite the measure which had for
its object to facilitate the sale of lands in Ireland, his
Noble and Learned Friend on the Woolsack had con-
sented to give his immediate attention to the Bill, and
to introduce it at an early opportunity into their Lord-
ships' House, so that it, with the other measures
bearing upon Ireland, would come together before their
Lordships, appearing to aid each other to one end—the
relief of the distress prevalent in Ireland.
The Marquis of WESTMEATH expressed his satis-
faction that the Government had adopted the suggestion
made by the Noble Lord not now in the House, as
to defining the case of the pauper, that no
person assuming to be a pauper should continue
to hold possession of land. He begged their Lordships'
attention shortly to a remark of a Noble Lord, that the
provisions of one of the Bills proposed ought not to
affect the holders of small tenements. He thought if it
did not, the effect would be to absorb the whole income
of the country. The intention was to give a money re-
muneration to that class of persons who had small posses-
sions, and trafficked in land. He begged to ask, in case it
were carried out, to whom the person in possession
should surrender, whether to the chief lessor, or into the
hands of a lessee who might have sublet it? for if it might
be resigned into the hands of a lessee, he himself might be
a pauper, or he might immediately go and sublet it
to another pauper, thereby entirely defeating their
Lordships' intention. The same remark applied to the
system of conacre, and he begged their Lordships to
consider it, for it would have the effect of absorbing the
whole income of the country.
Lord LANSDOWNE then moved that the third
reading of the Bill should be adjourned till tomorrow.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

Mr. LABOUCHERE said the convenience of the
House would be greatly promoted if Hon. Gentlemen
would give notice of their intention to put their
questions.—(Hear, hear.) He had no doubt the accounts
would be regularly audited. He would, however, con-
sult the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the Object.
INTRODUCTION OF BRITISH MANUFAC-
TURES INTO PRUSSIA.
Mr. FINCH said, as they hail been informed by a
high authority that Prussia intended to offer
facilities for the introduction of British mane,
factures into that country, he wished to ask the Vice-
President of the Board of Trade, whether there was any
immediate prospect of the free admission of British
manufactures into the Prussian dominions, or into the
states comprehended in the Zollverein?
Mr. M. GIBSON stated, in reply, that he had not
heard any one express a very sanguine hope that there
was any prospect that British or the manufactures of
any other country would be admitted free into
the Zollverein.—(Hear, hear.) In fact, there had
been an augmentation of duty.—(Bear, and laughter.)
He was merely stating a fact.—(Hear.) With respect
to the first part of the Hon. Gentleman's question, he
begged to remind him that many other foreign countries
had made material reductions in their tariffs, and ad-
mitted the manufactures of other countries at a lower
duty.—(Hear.)
EXPORTATION OF RUSSIAN CORN. '

The Motion wai agreed to.
DISTILLATION FROM CORN.

Lord RODEN presented a petition from the
mayor and corporation of Drogheda against distillation
from corn for the next two years.
RUM DUTIES.

Lord RODEN presented a petition from the same body
against the proposed introduction of the rum duties.
The petition set forth that it would be injurious to the
distillers of Ireland, who had invested large sums of
money in their distilleries, and that it would be ruinous
to the labourers employed in these distilleries as well as
to other classes.
POOR-LAW SETTLEMENT.

Earl FORTESCUE presented a petition from the
guardians of the Honiton union, in Nottinghamshire,
praying for the abolition of the present law of settle-
ment. The Noble Earl said that he agreed to much of
what had been stated in the petition. He was disposed
to agree in what was stated as to the Act of last session,
which, so far from being productive of advantage, had
been a source of great hardship. He could not, how-
ever, go the length of admitting that the present law
should be altogether dispensed with.
Lord MELBOURNE presented a similar petition
from the Guardians of the Basford Union, in Lincoln-
shire.

In reply to a question from Mr. WAWN,
Lord PALMERSTON said he had recently received
information from St. Petersburgh which led him to be-
lieve that the Russian Government did intend to offer
facilities for the exportation of corn into this country.
(Hear.) Large quantities, he believed, had been ex-
ported.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock.
RAILWAY BILLS.
The following Railway Bilis were read a second time,
and ordered to be committed ;
Airdrie and Bathgate Junction Railway Amendment
and Deviation.
Ayrshire and Galloway Railway (Smithstown to, Dal-
meltington).
Caledonian Railway (Branches to Canoble. &re.) .
Caledonian Railway (Lease of Part of .Glasgow, Duns-
fries, and Carlisle Railway).
Caledonian Railway (Branch across Clyde and' Glasgow
Station).
Great Northern Railway (Branch to King's Lynn).
Lynn and Ely Railway (Lynn and Wormegay Nevi.
gation).
Lynn and Ely Railway (Deviation and Lynn Docks).
Portadown and Dungannon Railway.
'Wishaw and Coltness Railway (Branches to Auchin-
heath Mineral Field and Canderside).
Several private Bills were brought in, and read a first
time.
AMBERSG ATE, NOTTINGHAM, AND BOSTON,
AND EASTERN JUNCTION RAILWAY (AL-
TERATION OF LINE AND BRANCHES TO
NO ETINGHAM.)
On the motion that this Bill be read a second time,
Lord IsIOTHAM opposed the motion. on the ground
that a breach of faith had been committed by the pro-
moters, in notcarry in,'' out an engagement which they had
entered into with Loi d Manvers. In consequence of the
opposition of the Noble Lord when the line was first
projected, the promoters entered into an agreement
to carry the line on a different side of the Trent from
what they intended ; and now, after the lapse of
six months, notwithstanding that solemn engage-
ment, they came forward with a Bill to
carry out the plan they originally projected.
The Hon. Gentleman, the Member for Sunderland, (Mr.
Hudson), the Chairman of the Midland Company, had
informed him that that company had not sought any
onerous terms from the Ambergate Company. The
Midland Company might, no doubt, have the use
of that line on the usual terms. No doubt the
Ambergate line held back, in order that they might get
better terms from the Northern Company. He, there-
fore, considered it his duty to move an amendment, that
the Bill be read that day six months.
The question having been put,
Mr. PLUMPTRE opposed the motion, and considered
that the Committee was the proper tribunal to investi-
gate the matter.
Sir JAMES DUKE said that ho hoped that the
Noble Lord would consent to the Bill going into Com-
mittee, and then if he could show the least objection to
it, he would do all in his power to throw it out. The
Bill contained three objects, and there was only one of
those complained of, and it would be too bad to reject
the Bill altogether.
The gallery was then cleared. On our return we un-
derstood that no division had taken place, but that the
House were occupied in a discussion on the merits of
the Blil.
After a few words from Mr. REDHEAD Yoaxa and
Sir JASIES DUKE, the further consideration of the Bill
was postponed till this day week.
WESTMINSTER-BRIDGE.
Sir DE LACY EVANS rose to put the question, of
which he had given notice. He wished to ask the First
Commissioner of Woods and Forests what decision the
Government has come to respecting the completion of the
repairs of Westminster-bridge, which have been lately
in progress, the widening of the roadway, &c. ; or as
to the re-construction of the bridge on or immediately
near its present site, as recommended by the Select
Committee of last session, it being proper that the
various interests concerned should be relieved from the
injury of another year's suspense.
Lord MORPETH said, that with respect to the re-
construction of the bridge at or near to its present site,
the Government had had several communications with
the Commissioners of Metropolitan Improvements, but
they were not (considering the demands to be made on
the Exchequer, and the fact that the bridge was now
available for public traffic) prepared to submit any pro-
position to Parliament in the present session.
ROYAL NAVAL ACADEMY.
In answer to a question from an Lim MEMBER,
Mr. F. MAUL E replied that, towards the close of the
last session, an inspector-general was appointed, for the
purpose of reporting any information upon the subject
of remodelling the school of the Royal Naval Academy.
He had since received a report on the subject, but parts
of it related to matters which had not been officially
referred to the inspector. He should have no objection,
however, to lay such parts before the House as imme
diately related to the matter in question.
FOREIGN AFFAIRS.

Mr. MONCKTON MILNES wished to ask the
Minister for Foreign Affairs, whether he had sent to the
President and Executive Council of Berne any notice
respecting their replies to the menaced interference of
the Austrian, Russian, and Prussian Governments, in
the international affairs of the Confederation, which
have been presented to Parliament by command of her
Majesty.
Lord PALMERSTON replied that her Majesty's Go-
vernment had not felt called upon to make any commu-
nication upon the subject.
PORTUGUESE PRISONERS.
Lord J. MANNERS wished to ask the Noble Lord
the Secretary for Foreign Affairs whether the Govern-
ment were in possession of any authentic information
respecting the destination of the officers who were taken
prisoners by the Portuguese army at the capture of
Torres Vedras.

Lord PALMERSTON said, that in consequence of
representations made to the Portuguese Government
by the British, French, and Belgian, the Government
had changed their intention of sending the prisoners
to the coast of Africa. He believed that it was pro-
posed to send them to Madeira, or some other island. He
had not, however received_any official information upon
the subject.
CONSTITUTION OF PRUSSIA.
Mr. F. fIOWARD wished to know whether it was

THE SUN, LONDON, MONDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 22, 1847,

situation aro bound to perform, I am afraid that I am
not very able properly to perform that task.—(Hear,
hear.) I hope, at the same time, that my inability
may be considered as my excuse if I make my statement
as short as may be consistent with making my state-
ment as clear as possible, and confine my observa-
tions to that which is absolutely necessary,
in order to place before the Committee the
financial state and prospects of the country.
Sir, I put this further claim to the indulgence of the
House, that it is many years since a Chancellor of the
Exchequer has had to make so heavy a demand on the
Treasury, owing to the unfortunate state of the
country, and I hope it will be several years
before a similar calamity will render such demands
necessary.—(Hear, hear.) The Committee, however,
must be aware that the calamity which calls for this
demand is one which no prudence, either on the part of
her Majesty's Ministers, or of any Government, or
of any Legislature, could possibly have pro-
vided against.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") It has
pleased Providence to inflict not only this country, but
a great part of western Europe, with great dearth, and
that dearth has pressed peculiarly on that part of the
United Kingdom least able to bear it. Thousands
of suffering and famishing people chiefly in the west
of Ireland, appeal for sympathy and assistance
to this House, and I know that that sympathy and that
assistance will be extended to them. —(Hear, hear.) Sir,
if I were only to reflect on the past, or even the pre-
sent state of the finances of the country, I cer-
tainly should say that there never was a time in
which the finances of the country were so well
able to bear the demand which has been made upon
them.—(Cheers.) Gentlemen have now had in their
hands for some time the balance-sheet of the last quarter
By it, it appears that the whole excess above the re-
payments, amounts to 916,0001., and that the entire
balance is upwards of 9,000,0001. on the year.—(Hear.)
This is the first time, I.beheve I may say in the memory
of those conversant with these matters, that a Chancel,
for of the Exchequer has had to deal with so large a
balance. If, in like manner, I refer to the produce
of the great articles of consumption, it would show
that the revenue 'derived from them has exceeded the
most sanguine expectations even of the Right Honoura-
ble Gentleman opposite, who made his financial
statement last year. If I refer to the Customs,
I find that the produce of every article
for the nine months, from April to Decem-
ber inclusive, with one single exception, of those
duties which were reduced, is considerably higher than
during the corresponding nine months of the preceding
year. In like manner, if I turn to the Excise
revenue, I find that in the last year, with
the single exception of soap, which, I beliesas
has, owing to some accidental circumstances at the
beginning of the year, on every material article the
duty has increased—even including that branch of it on
which the Honourable and Gallant Member for Lincoln
seemed to have some misgivings—namely, post-horses.
By the return of the quarter up to the 13th of February
last, I find that there is an increase in the ordinary re-
venue, as compared with the corresponding period
of the preceding year, of nearly half a million.
We have, therefore, great reason to be thankful that
such a demand came at such a time when we were not
unprepared to meet it.—(Hear, hear.) At the same
time, I think, we should hold out fallacious hopes
if I said we were entitled to look for a
continuance of such a season of prosperity.
Sir, I think that no person looking at the signs of the
times, can doubt that there are circumstances existing
which indicate that we may be approaching one of those
periods when a revulsion in the prosperity of the country
will occur. Such periods of calamity occur in com-
mercial enterprises as well as in the progress of
the country. Such was the case in 1825, and again in
1836, after years of unexampled prosperity. I do not
anticipate anything like the revulsion which took place
on former occasions. I see no symptoms, and I
do not think it right to cause any fear in
the minds of persons by the expression of
such a belief. I think the experience oi former times
has not been lost upon our merchants and traders, and
1. hear from every quarter that the trade and commerce
of the country is in a sound and healthy condition. And
I am inclined to attribute such a fact to the effects of the
measures regulating the currency introduced by the
Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth. I be-
lieve, but for the operation of that Bill, when the world
was not quite in a sober mood, we might have seen great
distress, consequent upon the mania existing fur specula-
tion, and I believe that many of those who were most
adverse to the provisions of that Bill, have latterly be-
come converts to the system it contains. I attach not
only these effects to that Bill, but I believe sounder
principles and sounder notions of currency weri
brought into operation, and persons were induced to
pursue a more prudent course than on former
occasions. People invested their money in the con•
struction of railways instead of purchasing Mississippi
stock and Mexican bonds. Great communications,
affording employment to the people and calculated
to promote the commercial prosperity of
the country, were constructed, and I am, there.
fore, convinced, that no such results will now
I may, perhaps, be justified in stating that when :the
period comes to which the Right Hon. Gentleman made
reference, his calculations will be found to turn out not
unfavourable for the country. I think that the calcu-
lations which I am about to make, based on the
proceeds of the revenue on the sth of January
Last—on these proceeds I am about V) state what I
think the probable revenue will be for the year, from
the ensuing sth April, 1847, to the sth April,
1848. The House will see that the increase
on the Customs duties to the sth January was 205,659/.,
and that a considerable amount was derivable from the
corn-laws, somewhere about 79,300/. In consequence,
however, of the suspension of the duties on the importa-.
tien of corn, it will be seen that we cannot on the
first six months expect this amount to be continued.
What the produce of the harvest may be, we cannot of
course yet calculate; but, even supposing that nothing is
derived to the revenue from this source, I think that from
the increased importation in sugar a materially
added revenue will accrue from this source in the course
of the succeeding year; but more than that, on the only
three items on which th Customs fall off in the course of
the last six months for which we have a return,viz., butter,
cheese, and silk manufactures, I find that the import in
these articles has increased. I find that in the nine
months, from April to !December, the amount of butter
has been 201,000 cwt. in 1845, as compared with 207,000
in 1846; cheese, 202,000 cwt. in 1845 as compared with
265,000 cwt. in 1846 ; and 218,000 lbs. of manufactured
silk as compared with 297,000 lbs. in the following year.
Sir, taking all these circumstances into consideration, I
believe I shall be entitled to assume that the probable
income from customs duties for the ensuing year will not
be less than 20,000,0001. If trade goes on
without any material change, I believe I shall
be fairly justified in assuming that the Customs' duties
will yield 20,000,0004 I have already said that from
the beginning of the present year up to the present time
the Customs' and Excise duties have increased. The
increase in the Customs' duties alone has been no less
than 245,000/. I come now to the Excise produce. U p to
n
7i 500 the
, o O The
c
the sth January the Excise duties amounted to 13,988,000/.
Sir, nothing can be more encouraging than the extraor-
dinary increase that has taken place in the excise duties,
during the last three or four years,and although they can-
not exceed the amount of the past year, nevertheless, in
many respects, the excise income is far more certain
than the Customs. I may therefore assume, with
some degree of certainty, that the excise income
for the ensuing year will be 13,700,0004 Again,
the increase upon the excise made in the be-
ginning of the present quarter has been no less
than 106,000/. In Ireland, too, the Excise duties have
increased in the course of the last year, but not to a
very considerable amount. Sir, the Stamps produced
I assume they will be about the same, or
produced 5,395,000/. ; but here there is a small amount
Pera:
of extraordinary payment; therefore, although the
Property-tax
yearnduce
endingeh Taxese
and the
t hLand
o
st. h
January,
Assessments
n has n a r
increased e d byd•
169,000/. over the corresponding period of last year, I
will assume that the property-tax will yield a sum of
5,300,0004 The Post-office I will take at the same
sit 5 o Jsy 7,505,000/.
amount as last year, 1,845,000/. ; Crown lands at
170,000/. The miscellaneous items of revenue, up to
the sth of January, produced 427,000 L The calculation
of the Right Lion. Gentleman opposite, was 300,000/.
A considerable sum of money had been paid from the
tees of the house, which, in all probability, will not be
solarge in the present session. I may call it 30,000/.
from that source ; therefore I take the " Mis-
cellaneous" at 330,0004 This will make the
ordinary revenue of the financial year of 1847
and 1848 amount to 52,065,000/. I now come
LO the expenditure. The interest of the debt, funded
and unfunded, will be 28,045,0004 The estimated charge
of the Consolidated Fund, omitting the charges on ac-
count of the Irish distress, will be 2,522,0001.; to that
must be added that charge to which the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman (Mr. Goulburn) alluded last year, viz., 175,0001.
for the remainder of the charges on the Irish consta-
bulary, hitherto borne by the counties of Ireland,
making a total, in round numbers, of 2,700,0004 The

amount of the-national debt Consolidated Fund charges
will be 30,745,000/. The estimates in the various
services, except " the Miscellaneous," are upon the
able of the House. I, therefore, need not do more than
merely allnde to some of the items. The vote will be,
For the army £6,275,074
The militia ~ 155,000
The increase in the ComMissariat
Making the whole army vote ...... £6,840,074
But for the increase in the deferred estimates for the
previous quarter of the year, amounting to 192,0004,
there would be a decrease in the army vote of 30,0004
The navy estimates forthe present year will be 7,561,876/ ,
being an increase in that department of 77,006.4
The estimates for the last two years have been below
the expenditure. Later in the evening I shall

show the excess of that expenditure for the
year ending in April last. lam afraid, however
owing to arrangements made in the early par
of this year that there is a probability that the expen
piture of the present year will exceed that anticipated.
A considerable portion of that increase has been deemed
necessary. We have inereasec: the marine force to the
extent of 1,500 men, and when my Honourable
Friend (Mr. Ward) states the naval estimates of the
House, he will state the reason of this increase more
fully than I now intend to do; but I think it right to
make this statement now: The vote for the Ordnance
department will be 2,679,1271., which is an in-
crease over the last year of 135,558/. Oat 'of
that increase, 67;299/. is due for certain services
which the House last year considered ought to be
placed under the heal of the ordnance, in order to
bring that portion of the expenditure into proper
order. The remainder of the increase is partly
owing to the necessity which has arisen in conse-
quence of the change which has taken place in
maratime warfare by the introduction of steam ships for
the purpose of promoting the defences of the country.
Sir, the miscellaneous, the list of which is not on the
table, is 3,750,060/, I have left out of them any sums
voted with regard to the relief of Ireland. I may say
however, that 1,302,0001 is included in the Right Hon.
Gentleman's estimate. Compared, then, with last year
there is an increase of about 397,0001. Of that 171,000/.
is owing to a half year's expenditure connected with
certain provisions of the poor-law, and of prosecutions
and for the maintenance of prisoners. The remainder
of the increase is due to the necessity for providing fur
the maintenance of convicts at home instead of
the colonies. A considerable portion is due to
printing and stationery for both Houses of
Parliament, which is very heavy ; also in
consequence of some unexpected increase ie. the ex-
penses in connexion with the New Houses of Parliament
to which, I think, I had not better further advert until
they are before the House. The result of these several
sums proposed to he voted is 20,831,0771., making the
whole ordinary expenditure for the year 51,576,000/.
Sir, in the statement which I have made to the House,
I have omitted, purposely, all sums required for the re-
lief of distress in Ireland, whether they have been
granted, or estimated, with the exception of
the ordinary establishment of the board of works,
and the . salary of such officsrs as would
have been. employed otherwise, but who are now en-
gaged in the inspection of the Relief Committees. And
it now becomes my duty to state what I think the demand
on the Exchequer will be. What is material to the present
purpose is not what may be the ultimate demand upon
us, but what may be necessary to meet the present
emergency, The system which has been commenced
last year, and continued to the present moment,
is, that all the sums required for the relief
of public distress should be advanced by the
Crown. Whatever burdens may be ultimately thrown
on the landed property in Ireland. In respect to these
sums, the landed proprietors have as yet paid nothing.—
(Hear, hear.) They have paid, no doubt, the poor-
rates, which, in 1846, amounted to 390,000/. ; and they
have paid their subscriptions to the relief com-
mittees ; and I believe that a large body of
the landed proprietors have gone to a very great ex-
pense to maintain the poor upon their estates. lam
now confining my statement to the relief works, and
whatever may be the expense, the whole sum, in the
first instance, is advanced from the public treasury.
It is not very easy to state precisely what the
amount of expenditure may be, for that will depend
upon a variety of circumstances over which we have no
control. It is easy enough to state what the expenses,
in various ways, have already been. I stated a night
or two ago, that the expeaSe in the month of November
amounted to 308,00 W., and in five weeks after to 742,000/
The number of persona employed in October last was
120,000 ; in November the number was 285,000 ; in
December the number was 404,000 ; and in January it
was 571,000. The expenditure up to the sth of January
last, for a staff for the Board of Works, has been
20,500/ ; and the amount expended for other officers
till the same date has been 27,500/. There has been ex-
pended up till this time, for the purposes of draining,
about 218,090/. ; and on depots the amount has been
295,000/. : nearly all the latter sum will be repaid
to the Government when the sales of the de-
pots take place. For the purposes of the Labour
Act there has been advanced from the Exchequer
of this country to Ireland the sum of 2,400,000/.; and of
thin there has been disbursed under the direction of the
Board of Works nearly two millions. This expenditure
of 2,400,000/. had taken place up to the 20th of Feb. last.
!'he amount raised by donations and expended.
in Ireland from August till now has been 80,0001.
Now from this statement I do not think that
there will be required a sum less than a
million t month to meet the exigencies of Ireland.
The amount which was expended in January, was
800,0001, and this did not include all the outlay. No
doubt the Board of Works will in future be relieved of
great deal of its pressure, but, on the other hand, it should
he recollected that during the summer months there
are the greatest number of destitute persons in Ireland.
During the months of June, July and August, there are
infinitely less people employed than at an earlier period
of the year. It was, I believe, in reference to these
three months that the statement the Right Hon. Gentle-
man alluded to was made—that somewhere about two
millions of people in Ireland were in a state of total des-
titution for three months of the year. Again, we expect
no inconsiderable saving by the different modes of ad-
ministering relief, through the medium of soup kitchens
and relief committees, for they are considerably
cheaper than the relief given by the public works,
On the other hand, the increase in the destitution of
that country and the increased demand for a supply of
.lied, will, I believe, render a greater amount of ex-
penditure necessary. Again Sir, there is no doubt that
a considerable number of persons will be taken off the
public works by the employment afforded by the land-
lords of Ireland, under the Bill which I hope will be
passed before long, fur the improvement of their estates.
He believed that the Bill would work well in Ireland,
for all accounts of it had induced in his mind very
sanguine expectotions. Again Sir, the advances made
uy the Tr, asury will have •to be made, as far as I can
-ee from the data we have to. go upon, down to the ga-
thering in of the next harvest. It is impossible to sup
pose that all exertions on the part o, these national mea-
sures can cease at once in harvest time, and it is quite
clear that advances for the purposes of carry ing on many
works must be continued ; so that it is very likely that
for some short period after the harvest—looking at the
case in the most favourable light—these advances must
be continued. Taking, therefore, the briefest view it is pos-
sible to estimate, I cannot estimate the expenditure uuder
eight millions. Up to the present time, as I have
already stated, two millions had been advanced, and
therefore the estimate of the total sum which will be
required to be expended or advanced, granted or lent,
for the relief of distress in Ireland, during the period of
about a year, will not be less than ten millions of
money.—(Sensation.) Two millions have been already
advanced, eight are to be advanced, making altogether,
from the conclusion of August last to the conclusion of
these operations, which I anticipate at the end
of the harvest, ten millions of money.—(Hear.)
Sir, I do believe that even if the 16,000,000/. which the
Noble Lord opposite wished the Government to advance
to the railways had been ordered by the House,
that not even one shilling of these 10,000,000/.
would be saved to the country. With the heavy
demands which are now made on the resources
of the country, I was glad, although myself unable to
take part in this discussion—l say I was glad, and gra-
tified to see the authority by which the House
affirmed so wise and prudent a resolutson.—(Hear
hear,) The announcement which I have now to make
must be evident to the Committee—it must be evident
that I must go into the market to borrow, because no
amount of taxation will be able to produce within the
time required the money which is necessary for the
relief of Ireland. It is, therefore, a matter not of chance,
but of necessity, that I must go into the market to
borrow, and the first question which it is necessary
for me to ask is, shall I borrow the whole of the
8,000,000/., or endeavour only to borrow a part. If I
adopt the latter course, I must first consider whether I
shall not reduce the balances of the Exchequer. Now,
Sir, this is a course which I am most unwilling
to adopt. Sir, I think that no person who looks to
the state of what is called the money market of this
country, who considers that the exchanges had been
adverse to us, although I am happy to say that they
have lately been less adverse than they were, still they
are just at the turn, will say, after a consideration of
these circumstances, that it would not be
exceedingly injudicious in me if I put a farther
pressure on the monetary system of this country'.
It must also be remembered that by a Bill of
last session great advances were made for the
purposes of drainage and other improvements.
But, Sir, there is a still further and more weighty con-
sideration. It is uncertain what hangs over us, and what
will be the produce of the ensuing harvest no man canc
tell. No man can overrate the importanceof a good
harvest. Hitherto we have been living mainly upon por-
tions of the harvest of 1845—1 mean on the harvest of other
countries of 1845, and to some extent upon the harvest
of 1846. In the course oft the last year there was in-
troduced, for hornecon
consumption in this country, of
, no less a quantity than
grain and flour of all kiids
5,318,000 quarters. It was hoped that there would
have been a considerable import of Indian corn,
the produce of the harvest of 1846, but those hopes
were not realized. lam confident, however, that in the
course of this summer we shall have an abundandant
supply of Indian corn; but still it is impossible
to say what will be the produce of the next har-
vest. It may please God to give us a good har-
vest throughout the world, but unless that dispensation
is vouchsafed to us it will be impossible to calcu-
late for the future. Sir, the means by which we met
the pressure of last autumn was the large balance in the
Exchequer, and I hope this will convince every Member
of the Comenittee of the necessity fur keeping some con•
siderable bali;nce in the Exchequer. Sir, this being so,
I believe the wiser and more prudent course is at once
to borrow the extreme sum. Honourable Gentlemen

must remember, that in borrowing this, I do not take
a permanent responsible position, because a considerable
portion of the sum will be repaid by Irish landlords.
Of the expenditure on the public works in Ireland, halt
of it has been granted as a charge upon the property of
Ireland, 4nd payable in a period of ten years. The
amotwt of these repayments, as they come in, will, of
course, extinguish a considerable portion of the
debt pr4,-)sed to be contracted. But, even
though the half of the sums granted to
Ireland should be repaid, there would still
remain a balance che 4,000,0001. or 5,000,0001., which
enli4i tilt
it
oettriae:
sve
te notof tohnel y
loan,f or
when it is considered for what
will nob b© so much
viz., for the relief of
purpose the grant has besla made, The next ques-
tion,boarorooownlipnagnioodf
our suffering fellow ere, "'lures.
tshoatlarlgoean a
wsiuthm, injereSabsecl°lll4:
of course is, wbethe.;
the purpose of paying the