The Sun.
London, England, 1841-06-17 00:00:00

against me, I shall retire, and do my best.
to promote the return of Mr. Young with Sir Ben-
jamin Hall. The Gallant Commodore then sat
down amidst the most enthusiastic applause. •
Mr. YOUNG was then led forward by the Chair-
man, and was rec eived with considerable applause,
and some hissing. He said, Mr. Chairman and Gentle-
men there is no man, however high in station—ehowever
gifted in talents and endowment, ivhb weaci not add
lustre to his character by being chosen as the free and
independent representative of such a borough as this.
—(Cries of " Hear, - hear," and cheers.") Many men
might appear before the electors with greater claims
upon their confidence, from past public conduct,
than I can pretend to—many might present themselves
with stronger recommendations of birth or of lineage—.
and as I am surrounded with none of those ad-
vantages, I will, with all courtesy to the Gal-
lant Commodore, beg • leave to make sonic ob-
servations on the remarks which he has addressed to
you.—(Hear, hear.) The Gallant Ofiicertells you that
I have been four times a candidate, and have been four
times defeated in this borough.—(Hear, hear.) But,
Gentlemen, here are the facts ? In 1833 I ad-
dressed the electors, but I did not stand. In
1835 I did stand, but retired from the contest.—
(Cheers and laughter.) In 1837 I stood again, and was
' defeated by the electioneering skill of my opponents, I
believe, rather than from. any other cause.—(Hear, and
laughter.) In 1838 I supported Colonel Thompson.—
(Cheers and laughter.) Thus I was in fact defeated twice,
and from these facts the Gallant Commodore draws the in-
ference that I haVe been four times a defeated candidate.
(Laughter, and cries of " So you were.") The reasoning
of the Gallant Commodore reminds me of the Cambridge
problem, " Give the length of the mast, the number of
the gains, and the name of the ship, to find the name
of the Captain."—(Great laughter.) But passing all
personal considerations, I will tell you the grounds on
which I stand here to-day. I have been ballotted for in
two large societies in the borough, and their selection
was confirmed by the largest public meeting ever held by
the Reformers amongst us.—(Cheers and contradiction.)
Gentlemen, Sir Charles Napier tells you that he knew
that Sir Benjamin Hall was in the field, that he
knew i -was a candidate ; and yet with the
knowledge that he-could not come forward as a candi-
date fur this borough; without dividing the Re-
form interest, he comes forward as a third Reform
candidate—(Cries of "To keep out Teignreoutli"
" the Warren-street Association"). Who has divided the
Reform interest in the borough if it be tr; the
gentleman who tells you
le
that he came
.iesrward
knowing there were two Reform:candidates in e field?
Who then is it that is fighting the battle of the
Tories ?—(Cries of "You, you," and great confusion.)
Now, with regard to the Poor-law Amendment Act,
Sir Charles Napier is under the impression that
lie has been misrepresented on the subject. I ask you to
take his explanation of his opinion this day
as to that Act, and, I ask, can any elector of
this borough, who is faVourable to a repeal of
the Poor-law Act, be prepared to place any confidence in
the declaration oflis eeenions which Sir C. Napier has made
this day.—(Cries of " All, all ;" " No, no ;" Yes, yes,"
and much confusion.) The great object of the atrocious
and inhuman Poor-law Amendment Act is to make honest
poverty a crime.—(Hissing, and cries of " Yes, yes,"
and great confusion.) Has Sir Charles Napier repu-
diated that principle ?—(Cries of" Yes, yes," "No, no.")
The Board of Guardians are elected under the Poor-law
Amendment Act by a plurality of votes. Does Sir
Charles Napier
.propose to repeal that power ? Does
Sir Charles Napier, in speaking of the poor being taken •
care of in places like Greenwich Hospital, say any thing
of repealing that provision ? Gentlemen, the principle
of the Poor-law Amendment Act is, that the honest and
industrious man should be imprisoned, not for any crime,
but on account of misfortune.—(Cries of " No, no," hiss-
ing, and great confusion.) I now come to the question
of the franchise, and I ask you to judge of Sir Charles
Napier by his declaration here this day. He is for
extending the franchise, when the Ballot shall
be obtained. Why, the House of Commons will never
pass the Ballot, and yet until the Ballot is carried through
the House of Commons and through the House of Lords,
where it never will obtain ten votes, until then
we are to have no extension of the suffrage,
Sir C. Napier asks me what I can know of corporal pu-
nishment, and doubts whether I ever was at sea in my
life.—(Laughter, and cries of " Hear, hear.") Now
it so happened that I have been for upwards of four
months on ship-board at one time.—(Roars of laughter,
and cries of ".name.") I have been asked to name the
ship. It-was a name that will be closely allied with the
present contest—it was the Victory.—(Cheers.) But I
have yet to learn, although I am a civilian, that
I am incapable of forming a judgment on flogging.
I know a good deal about the French army, and I be-
lieve they are kept in excellent order and discipline
without flogging.—(Cries of the " French navy.") I
believe the Gallant Commodore has formed a most erro-
neous estimate of the character of the British navy.—
(Cries of Hear, and much laughter.) I leave this question
of flogging to you, anal ask you whether you will elect
a man who says it is impossible to conduct the discipline
of the army and navy without flogging.—(Cries of
" No, no.") Gentlemen, I leave the question in your
hands. I come for ward, put in nomination by my
friends and neighbours. Sir Charles Napier is
here as a tinsel Reform candidate ; uncon-
nected with the borough, and almost uninvited.
—(Cries of " No, no," and cheers.) I now beg to
withdraw, appealing with the utmost confidence to the
result of the ballot which is about to take place.—(Cheers
and cries of " Timc..")

The CHAIRMAN said he was anxious to say a word or
two in the way of eiplanation, as he was unwilling that
any cause of dissatisfaction should exist on the part o:
the electors. He understood that each candidate was to
speak for half an hour. The meeting, however, did not
commence till half-past two o'clock, and according to
that arrangement Sir Charles Napier had a right to
speak till three o'clock. Sir Charles, however, like
an old naval man, thinking that action was better than
words, did not avail himself of the whole of his time.
Mr. Young was then entitled to half an hour, but he had
only spoken for twenty minutes, and was entitled to
speak for ten minutes more, if it was the pleasure of the
meeting to hear hina.--:(Cheers.)
Mr. YOUNG then resumed. On the question of the
Corn-laws I have only to say that I was returned as an
Anti-Corn-law Delegate for Marylebone, and I brought
forward resolutions more than once for the total
repeal of those laWs.—(Loud cheers.) But that will
not induce me to oppose the Government measures,
which I think are extremely good as far as they go, but
I shall vote for the repeal of Lord John Russell's fixed
duty, in the event of its being carried, whenever the op-
portunity offers.—(Cheers.) I think the freight from
.Dantzic and _other ports of the Continent will always
be a sufficient protection to the English corn. grower.—
(Hear.) I hail these measures also as an approximation
to the great principles of free trade, and a more ex-
tended system of commerce for this country.—(Much
cheering.) These measures, therefore, small have my
hest support ; and if I am returned as your representa-
tive, I pledge myself to endeavour, to the best of my
ability, to promote and extend these principles.—
(Hear, hear.) Gentlemen, the time is now expired, and
I shall leave it to you by your votes to decide
whether you shall have the nomination of your own can-
didates or allow a stranger to step in and take the re-
presentation out of your hands.—(Cheers.)
The CHAIRMAN said the polling would now com-
mence, and would continue till six o'clock, when the Can-
didates would again address them. The polling would
be again resumed at seven o'clock, and finally close at
ten o'clock.

The meeting then separated at half-past three o'clock

EVENING MEETING.

The Ballot proceeded with great briskness up to half-
past six o'clock, when Mr. Protheroe, M.P., again took the
chair, the theatre being fully crowded, and the number
of electors present being certainly not less than 9,000,
perhaps not less than 2,500. The side boxes were again
filled with ladies, amongst whom we observed Lady
Napier.
The CHAIRMAN would not detain the meeting beyond
stating a decision Tehich he had come to, and which he
hoped would be considered important.—(Hear, hear.)
lie had not been consulted in the morning as to the
manner in which it should be decided who should speak
first. That was determined by tossing up a halfpenny—
(Hear and laughter)—and the Gallant Commodore won
the first turn both times.—(Cheers and laughter.)• But
if that arrangement were adhered to, it would give Mr.
Young the advantage of the-reply both times • and that
gentleman had put the matter into his (the Chairman's)
hands, thereby imposing on him a very painful duty.—
guided, (Hear, hear.) He was however, by the usage of
other assemblies and, according to that, he had thought
it would be the fairest way f M or r. Young, who had the
reply in the morning,
to speak
nit firsty inof the
speaking
ee va
ng i ng,
the Commodore the opportunity
(Hear, hear.) With that decision Mr. Young was
Lir.
satis-
fied—(Cheers.)l-oeNoaccordieely came forward on the stage.
He said, that
both whether‘iiespoke' first or last, his only ob-
ject was to place before the
meeting a candid statement
of his views and objects.—(Hear, hear.) He had left
the matter to the Chairman,( he thought, had de-
cided properly.--(Applause.)
—(Applaus.) had beencalled onnto.
state what were his opinions as to the
heeo to repealtit of the Corn-
laws
part which
laws ? For answer, he might r
betook in the Anti-Corn-law League,b London and
in Manchester. He had been delegated by the vestry
rylebene to represent the parish in that body,and he had
of Ma-
there Siened a resolution in favour of totlrepeal,
deelfteing a fixed duty to be a fixed injustice.--( f
Hear,
and
hear.) He was therefore only in favour of the
proposed
alteration as a step towards total repeal. To the other
measures brought forward by the Government nobody
could object. But at the same time that he approved of
those measures he was not prepared to place unbounded
confidence in the Ministry who- proposed them.—(Ap-
' please and disapprobation.) He was the friend of con-
tinual and progreeeive Reform, which Mr. Fox had de-
clared to be part and parcel of the British character, and
he held the opinions which Lord Grey professed in the
House of Commons when he presented the petition of
the Friends of the People—(Hear, hear)—and which
Lord John Russell expounded when he first brought in
the Reform Bill.—(Cheers.) He supported the Whig
candidate on those principles at the first election that
took place in this borough—(Hear, hear)—and if any
change had since taken place, it was not in him.—(Hear,
hear, and laughter.) When the Whigs passed the
Irish Coercion Bill, when year after year they resisted
Mr. Grote's motions for the Ballot, and used all their
influence to oppose other measures- of improvement,
founded on the principles which they advocated before they
came into power, then he declared that he had not, and
could not have any confidence in them. Were these grounds
upon which he was fairly chargeable with change of his
opinions?—(" No, no.") The change had been in the
Whigs, who had resorted to popular measures, for the
purpose of retaining office; look at their dwindling majo-
rities.—(Hisses and applause.) He challenged any one
to show in what he had changed his opinionsee-(Ap-
plause.) It was the Whigs, whose desertion of their

opinion had caused division in the ranks cf the Re- a
formers, and,. endangered the Liberal interest in that
borough.—(Cheers and disapprobation.) If however, he
surrendered in the approaching contest, as he believed
he should—(Cheers, laughter, and cries of " Oh, oh)—
he would do all he could to support the gentleman whO
represented in Parliament the - Whig party in
in Marylebone, so far as there was common ground upon
which they could work together.—(Hear.) If, he did
not succeed this day, thcn he would give his best sup-
port to promote the cause of Sir C. Napier.—(Great ap-
plause.) He had been chosen by a large body of Re-
formers as the person to be put in nomination to repre-
aent them ; and, he could not, in fidelity to them, aban-
don the position in which they had placed him without
their consent, which would only •be ascertained by some'
such proceeding as was at length resolved on. He assured
Sir C. Napier that if at any of his meetings he had let
fall any expression which gave the Gallant Commodore
pain, he regretted it.—(Hear.) But he believed the Gal-
lant Officer did not agree with him and his friends in all
pots ; certainly not as to the conduct of the Ministers.
Sire. NAPIER—Yes, I do.—(Laughter, and cheering.)
Mr. YOUNG—The Gallant Commodore was reported
to have said that he and his frienl Mr. Wall had mis-
represented him. But he had heard the Gallant Commo-
dore say at the Yorkshire Stingo, and he was so reported
in all the papers, that the evils of the Poor-law Act were
owing to the guardians of the poor who did not do their
duty, and that the fault was not in the principle of the
Poor-law.
Sir C. NAPIER— That is not correct.—(Hear, hear.)

Mr. YOUNG had so understood him, and so all the re-
porters seemed to have understood him. They who
framed the New Poor-law proposed that its object was
to raise men from the condition of parish paupers to that
of independent labourers. (Cheers and disapprobation.)
But what were the means adopted for carrying out that
object ?—(Hear, hear.) The institution of a central
board of three Commissioners with despotic powers,
such as no man or set •of men should exercise
in a free country—such as the Legislature had no right
to confer upon them.—(Cheers.) The guardians them-
selves were elected by plurality votes and proxy
votes.—(Hear hear.) Here, then, there was av. ide dif-
ference between him and the Gallant Commodore.

Sir C. NAPlER—No.—(Cheers.)
Mr. YOUNG—They said that the union workhouse
was a test to distinguish the industrious from the idle
and dissolute poor. Well, he would give up to them the
idle and dissolute, but he insisted that they should not
inflict the punishment of crime on those who were poor
by no fault of their own.—(Cheers, and cries of "Hear,
hear," from Sir C. Napier.) He would not offend the
ears of that meeting. by specifying other parts
of the Bill ; but he would say, that when
the . father had deserted the child who was
tainted with infamy, and when all other friends de-
serted, and every tie of kindred was broken, the law
should not burst the last link that bound the unhappy
girl to humanity—nor deprive her of woman's claim and
nature's claim upon the author of her misfortune.—
(Great cheering.) The law had done so : and no wonder
thatdespair should point out murder anti infanticide as
the only means by which she could escape from the hor-
rors in which she was plunged. Mr. Young then re-
ferred, amidst much interruption, to the state of a young
woman, who, having been driven from a union workhouse
in Kent, destroyed her child in the New River in that
parish. He then alluded to the charge which he said
the Gallant Commodore had made against him, that he
was once a Tory and now a Radical.
Sir C. NAPIER explained—What he had said was, that
it had been so stated twice at public meetings in the bo
rough.—(Hear.)
Mr. YOUNG would be glad that the person who did so
would come before him there, and receive from him, in
the presence of that meeting, the most decided contradic-
tion it was possible .to give. He had never given a vote
for a Tory.—',hear.) He regarded the Tories as enemies
who must be put down, as they would put down the
people.—(Cheers.) There could be no comparison be-
tween him, or those who supported him, and the Tories.
There must be perpetual hostility between them; and if
successful that day, he would lead the electors on to the
fight, but if Sir C. Napier were preferred, he would de-
votedly serve in the ranks.—(Great cheering.) The time
was now expired—
Sir C. NAPIER—No, go on, I'll give you five minutes
of my half-hour, ormore if you like.—(Cheers, and a
laugh.) . . _

Mr:YOUNG declined the offer, and concluded by hoping
that his friends would agree with him that, whatever
might be the result of the ballot, some such manifes-
tation of their sentiments was necessary to the interest of
the Reform party in the borough. He sat down amidst
much cheering.
Sir C. NAPIER (who was greeted with the most en-
thusiastic and reiterated cheering) said, that he was first
"desirous to explain something which had passed at the
morning meeting, relative to his friend Mr. Young, if he
might call him so—(Mr. Young here rose and bowed
good-hummtredly to the Commodore, which was followed
by applause and laughter.) He had stated that
Mr. Young had been three times a candidate,
and that this was the fourth time. If that was incorrect,
he had only to beg pardon ; but it appeared, however,
that it was quite true that this was the third time of his
offering himself to the electors.—(Bear, hear.) With
respect to Mr. Young's having been once a Tory, it was
stated publicly at two meetings of the electors, by a gen-
tleman who, he was sure, would not be angry at his
name being mentioned—it was Mr. Portwine.—
(Laughter and hisses from the Youngites, and cries of
" Portwine said the truth," from some others.) Mr.
Portwine stated that when Mr. Young was Chairman of
Sir 'William Horne's ,Committee, he said his politics were
of the Wharncliffe school—(Cheers and laugh t er)—and
if that was not a Tory school, he did not know what was.
—(Cheers.)
Mr. YOUNG—I never said I was of the Wharncliffe
school, nor anything like it.—(Cheers.)
Sir C. NAPIER said Mr. Young had seemed to doubt
whether he (Sir C. Napier) was not still in command of a
squadron in the Mediterranean.—(Laughter.) To satisfy
Mr. Young he read a letter from the Admiralty, dated
the 31st May, and informing him that, in consequence
of his having written to their Lordships, his private
affairs would not allow him to sail for the Mediterranean
with the next packet, he and his retinue should be dis-
missed from the Powerful from that day.—(Cheers.)
Another charge against him was that he was
a " Queen's Officer."—(Hear.) He was proud to
say he was, and he hoped to die at his
post as a Queen's officer. (Tremendous cheer-
ing.) His being an officer did not deprive• him of his
rights as a citizen.—(Hear, hear.) He • had never hesi-
tated under any Government, Whig or Tory, to denounce
whatever lie saw going wrong in the navy, and he had
never sheltered himself under an anonymous letter.—
Mr. Young had said'that the French army was as brave
as any in the world, and that flogging was not resorted
to. he (Sir Charles Napier) admitted that the French
army was brave, though it had always been beaten by the
I?.nglish. But they were to bear in mind that the
Trench army was differently composed from ours. Men
were raised there by the conscription, which extended to
all classes of the people, from the noble to "the peasant.
Whereas our army was recruited from the manufacturing
towns, and frequently from those pereons who enlisted
from idleness, and chose the army as an escape
from the labours of industry.—(Hear, hear.) But
in the French navy, what were the punishments? He
would tell them what he had seen. The punishment
was, when a man committed a fault., to tie a number of
shot to his legs, and then let him drop from the yard-
arm into the sea, as deep as the shot would sink him.—
(Shame, shame.) A man would suffer three or four dips
of that sort ; and was that
.a punishment which they
would wish to see introduced into the British Navy ?-41
(No, no.) Mr. Young • had acquired his knowledge of
naval affairs in a four months' voyage, in a merchant
ship, with a crew of thirty or forty men. Bat could he
suppose that the same discipline would suffice in a ship
of war, with a crew of six or seven hundred men, like
the Powerful, as in such a craft ?—(Hear, hear.) Mr.
Young said that the name of the merchant ship was
the Victory, and he hoped, therefore, to have victor
to-night ; but his (Corn. N.'s) ship was the Powerful,
which, he doubted not, would make a prize of the Vic-
tory.—(Great cheering and laughter.), He would not say
that Mr. Young perverted st hat he had said on the sub-
ject of the Poor-laws, but he would repeat what lie did
say, and he had never varied what lie said at all the
meetings, nor would he vary it for all the votes in Mary-
leboae.—(Cheers.) When he was one of the Poor-law
guardians in his own district, they set the mandates of
the Commissioners at defiance, and allowed 6s. a week
to the aged poor in out-door relief.—(Cheers.) lie said
that where that relief was not granted, and the condi-
tion of the poor was not ameliorated, it was the fault of
the guardians. He had said, also, that those who were
obliged to go into the workhouses ought to find that a
place of refuge and comfort, like Chelsea or Greenwich
Hospital, and not a prison. This he now repeated for the
sixteenth time.—(Loud cheers.) He would not go the
length of repealing the new Poor-law, because he
thought the abuses of the abuses of the old system were
destroying the poor, and destroying the country ; but
he was not favourable to the continuance of the Corn-
tnissioners, as he did not think them necessary. But he
could assure the meeting that neither Mr. Young nor
any other man would go further than he would to secure
protection, comfort, tranquillity, and happiness to the
aged and industrious poor.—(Vehement cheering.) lie
also disapproved as muchasanthe part
any man of
ofof thep o
plurality and
proxy voting.—(Hear.) As to
on which Mr. Young had touched with eloquence and
feeling, he would only say that he thought the law was
formerly and against the man. and now it was worse
egainst the woman.—(Hear.) He would do everything
in his power to correct the injustice.--a Cheers.) As to
the rate-paying clauses, they were the worst parts of the
Reform Bill, and he would do his best to get them re-
moved.—(Cheers.) What he had said upon the subject
of an extension of the suffrage was, that so large a
portion of those whO now had the power of being elec-
tors were afraid to use their rights for want of the pro-
tection of the ballot, that- he thought it uselesa to en-
large the franchise until they first got the ballot. He
was, as he had already told the eh:eters, much mere than
a Whig. But he approved of much that the Whigs had
done. They had given the country the Reform Bill,
only for which he should not have had the honour of ap-
pearing before the meeting on that occasion.(Cheers.)
They had passed the Corporation Reform- Bill, and
other useful measures, which they would have made
better if the Tories had allowed them.—(Hear, hear.).
He would support them, if he should be returned, in every
measure of reform and improvement, and especially in
the destruction of every monopoly in the kingdom, as
well as of the corn, timber, and sugar monopolies.—
(Cheers.) ' If they did not go on in that way, he would
do as much to oppose them as any civilian in the king-
dom.—(Cheers.) He had also stated before that he
would support a property tax, and the abolition of Church-
rates. He considered the former the most justeof all taxes,
and
impost,
beelat
:usetcr a
nom
omstanunojuugsht't tiornp be requiredand
olie
to payeiugi for s
irreligious
a Church to the doctrines of which he was opposed.—
(Cheers.) He found he had now ten minutes to spare,
but he had rather go to aetion—(Cheers and laughter)—
lo