The Sun.
London, England, 1824-05-12 00:00:00

at
the
at „ C°nntry until more favottra'ole opinions exist than do
fe4.46nt. 1 believe that • argumenti And- reasoning,
_and
vii and a better understanding of the question, will pre7
thetlhla throwing down the obstacles which now obtrude
tarr 'elves ; but I do believe that there is that disposition to
which would •in the end succeed. However it could
bitt?e carried by faction, and what the Noble Lori' recona.
of ,as is a factious measure. But with regard to the affairs
Idiroovernment, I beg to ask if this is the only question upon
*6lo'l agreement is necessary If had done that, which
b2,(10 be a great violence, broke with all in the Admini-
n who differed from me on this subject, what end
isuitirite have been answered ? Might not coy colleagues have
PtlllitClS also?—might they not he equally wedded
lo
)rne favourite question ? If they, at least, had not a lawful
; might they not have a mistress as der to them ? Might
be for instance, wedded to the question of Parliamentary
? With what face can Ibe charged with discrepancy—
,use there are differences of opinions on great questions
titlless two speculative questions had many supporters, and
oth I hold one of these doctrines I cannot accede to die
heeer• I trust it may not be presumptuous in me to say that I
ex7e. I hava convinced the Noble Lord I tun not guilty of in-
KiNstency. If he can bring forward any thing done by me dif-
On from what 1 have proclaimed. then he will have gained a
tt2thPh over me. • I agree with him to this extent of the ques-
Z; that it will always mix itself up with other questions con-
ing the grievances of Ireland, and that these will not be
4'4%1y relieved until this great .end he consummated; but I differ
(11,11'im if he supposes that it would he furthered by the union
Re4"eniment upon it. It must make its way by
-reason, by
ment and feeling; and I ant persnaded that it any other
Zfse he ado opted, it will be fatal to the cause. That moment it
titan
asternPled to be made a party question, that moment the
41, .3 of the question were lost. Whether there are any op-
tti`ifies of again obtaining those chances, I shall not now
isorciy char
of into the question ; but this Ido assert, that lam guiltless
ge. With respect to many of the objects of the Noble
14; , they did not come within the scope of a Parliamentary in-
• • A 4 to the state of' the Orange and Ribbon Societies lam of
4)Pit.',l',,on that there is nothing so desirable to be avoided as preei-
,l4: -e action on the part of the. xecutive Government. It is their
le eel aPt to interfere until the transgressions of the law were dear-
fr_C'" Positively exhibited; and neither should Parliamentinter-
w,' 30 long as there was a chance of doing away the grievance
ialtioat inquiry... theft
difficult to say where the necessity
Eg It the line. of distinction is faintly' delineated. There
t other points irethe-.Noble Lord's speech to which I do not
twer" it necessary:to advert, seeing they have been so ably an-
irtel hy the Right Hon. Gentleman who preceded me ; and
w•al, ..,lesPect to the subject of tithes, the Government had not
for the Noble Lord's Committee, for inquiries.had been
"Ited, and steps taken to remedy the defects existent
tt:ale.);. As to the Abridgment of the revenues of the Church
Tihinents, the House decided the other night on that
Vst,a'.°ll, and therefere shall not dwell upon that topic.
foot" t Raid that Church and Lay property were on the same
itstlioreng I will _not lay down the broad proposition that
„Cannot be .a possible case arise by which the State could be
atiet."eil in taking the endowments of the Church ; but I will
Ructlit that the occurrence must be very peculiar indeed in which
a'aleastine could he practised. Let the House recollect the
Muteet
tll°f Henry VIII. It was much safer to suffer the
Property • to remain as it was tha to middle with it at
aaie_as to the topics of the Grand Jury mesentments, and the
,`,.4"frs and the. Reverend Magistrates alluded to in the Noble
Speech, these being so ably answered by my Right Hon.the d 01r, Peel), 1 shall not enter into any argument upon
14 And with regard to the motion introduced by my Right
sa,,t;,. Frient' (Mr. Goulburn) as an amendment, that motion
to he considered as an original one ; inasmuch as due no-
had been given for its introduction. The conclusion of the
g"t non. Gentleman's speech we could not hear. lie sat
down amidst loud cheers.
<l4 r' TIERNEY in a very humourous speech, replied to the
(, S'lrations of the Right Hon. Secretary. The Right Hon.
741tleirian could not flatter himself that he was in his present
Ituation from any personal regard which had been entertained
temwards him. It. was quite certain that in the eyes of one
''":,,ember of the Cabinet, and a very important one, there was
T,,1l little to choose between the Right Hon. Secretary and the
laugh.)—He believed that if' the Bight Hon. Gen-
' oVan had stipulated for some prospective measures in favour
`ne C atholics at that time, they must of necessity have been
iltanted.
'4%.1.r. Secretary CAN N ING explained.
110". F. BLAKE said, that if he were asked what he would
Twith the present Administration, his answer would be,—
ie would do away with them."—( A laugh.)
Lord ALTHORP replied; after which the House divided,
"hen there were—
For the Amendment - - - 184
Against it • - - - - - 138
Majority
The original motion was consequently lost.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the
tiotue
Adjourned at THREE O'CLOCK.