The Sun.
London, England, 1847-12-03 00:00:00

TilE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY
.__VENING, DECEMBER 3, 1847.

BANK FAILTTRF,S

Mr. MACGREGOR gave notice that on a fut►.ire
day he should move for a return of the haol::4 that
had failed in Scotland since 1783, stating ti►eir lia-
bilities and assets, and also a similar return of the
banks that had suspended payment in England during
the same period.
ELECTION PETITIONS.

Petitions were presented against the returns for
Kinsale, Abingdon, and Lyme Regis.
IRISH EXPENDITURE.
Mr. JOHN O'CONNELL said, his motion for a
return of the number, nature, and expenditure of the
various branches of the Government departments in
Ireland transferred to and consolidated with the cor-
responding departments in England, from the year
1800 to the present time ; the expenditure in each
case to be the average of the last three years of the
establishment in Ireland, and the dates of the transfer
to be given, stood first on the list, but did
he not think that there ought to be full discussion
into the state of Ireland before they resorted to coercive
measures, he should have been strongly inclined to
postpone it, in order that the adjourned debate, in
which the House and the country took so much in-
terest, might be proceeded with. He had, therefore,
endeavoured to get a promise from Government that an
opportunity should be afforded him for raising such a
discussion, but he had failed in doing so, and were it not
for the representations of the Irish Members with
whom he acted, that it would be impossible for him to
obtain a fair hearing from English Members until the
adjourned debate had been disposed of, he should cer-
tainly have gone on with his motion. In deference,
however, to the opinion of his friends he should
abstain from doing so, and he hoped his example
would be followed by other Hon. Members who had
notices on the paper, in order that the monetary
question might be got rid of without delay.
The motion for the postponement was agreed to.
LAW CHARGES AND FEES.

Mr. ROMILLY moved the re-appointment of a
Select Committee, to inquire into and report to the
House on the taxation of suitors in the courts of law
and equity by the collection of fees, and the amount
thereof, and the mode of collection, and the appropria-
tion of fees in the courts of law and equity,
and in all inferior courts, and in the courts of
special and general sessions in England and Wales,
and in the ecclesiastical courts and courts of admi-
ralty; and as to the salaries and fees received by the
officers of those courts, and whether any and what
means could be adopted with a view of superintending
and regulating the collection and appropriation
thereof.
The motion having been seconded,
Sir G. GREY said as the motion was simply for
the re-appointment of a Committee agreed to last
session there was no objection to it. He wanted
that opportunity of stating that the Home-office was
kt present engaged in collecting information on the
subject of the fees charged in County Courts, with
the view of introducing a measure to regulate and
render uniform the fees to be taken in all the County
Courts throughout the country.
The motion was then agreed to.
POOR-LAW ADMINISTRATION ACT.

Mr. BANKES, in rising to move for leave to
' bring in a Bill to amend the Poor-law Administration
Act, by reducing the amount of charge to which the
public are liable under the existing provisions of that
Act, said it would be remembered that last session a
Committee of that House sat for many months upon
this subject, and at the end of the inquiry they re-
ported that the Poor-law Commissioners had issued
rules for carrying out the law in a way that
was contrary to the intentions of the Legislature.
The Act to which he referred was passed in June
last, after much discussion • and as he, and others
with whom he acted, considered that its operation
would prove expensive, they opposed it. It
was, however, carried; but from that time
to the present its provisions had not been
carried into effect ; he therefore called upon
the Government to explain to the House why
they had allowed the Act to fall into abeyance dur-
ing so long a period. The Commissioners, save one,
had resigned their posts ; one was a Member
of the House and the other had been
appointed to a high official situation, and those con-
versant with the law, whom he had consulted on the
subject, agreed that one Commissioner could not
carry on the business of the office to which the
carrying out of the new Bill was to be
entrusted ; for instance, how could one con-
stitute a board ? He wished to see the Bill
carried out with the least possible expense; and,
therefore, he wished to know if the Government in-
tended to carry it out with one Commissioner ; or, in
fact, whether they intended to abrogate the Bill alto-
gether? It was proposed that there should be a
President, with a seat in the House of Lords,
one paid secretary in that House, another out of it,
' and an unlimited number of sub-inspectors and
clerlos, the total cost of whom was as yet unsettled,
for the Government had given them no information
on the point. If they had thought better of the
measure, and wished to save expense, he wean
support them. At least the conduct of the Govern-
ment presented no other view to him.—(Hear.) He
judged them by their acts. He had no desire un-
necessarily to occupy the time of the House, and
thereby to retard the discussion on the affairs of
Ireland, but if he were compelled to do so he should
only imitate the example of the Right Hon. Baronet
the Member for Tamworth, who had mixed up coer-
cion with other matters foreign to the question. Such
conduct might, by causing delay, destroy the effect
of remedial measures ; and if the Bill with respect to
Ireland were put off from week to week he should
feel it his duty to withdraw his support from the
Government in respect to it.
Lord J. RUSSELL thought when the House was
informed of the whole of the facts in relation to the
subject which the Honourable and Learned
Gentleman had introdui:ed, they would see
there was no reason for taking the hasty
step which he had suggested. Each of the
Commissioners under tine old Act received
9,000/. each, making a total of 6,000/. a year
for the three. What they proposed was, that
instead of three heads of that office there should
be but one—namely, a president, with a salary of
2,0001., and that there should be two secretaries,
with a salary of 1,500/. a year each—making I,ood.
less than the expei.ses of the. original commission. He
had been in communication with various individuals,
many of whom had express( ?(-1 great unwillingness to
take upon themselves du! onerous duties of the
~ffices. The lion. Gentler nan was mistaken when
he said that but one Commissioner had of late trans-
acted the business of the commission. The
Hon. Member for Herefordshire resigned when he
became a candidate ; but; Mr. Nicholls and Sir
Edmund Head had carried on the business since.
The House would see that although two might carry
on the business for a sho rt time, by great toil
and a denial of the usual rec reation, that such an ar-
rangement would be detrisner ital to the public service.
_(Hear, hear.) In a as•eek or ten days the
entire arrangements would be completed, when he
should be happy to state the it nature to the House.
With respect to the staternealt of the Honourable
Member relative to the Bill introduced the other
night by his Right H,onourable Friend at
the head of the Home Department respecting
crime in Ireland, he (Lord J. Russell) thought it
would not have been fair on the part of Minis-
ters, or just to the Irish Members, to have
appointed the second reading of that Bill for an
earlier day than Monday neat.—(Hear, hear.) He
could assure the Hon. and Learned Gentleman that
her Majesty's Government lb ad no intention whatever
to postpone the measure fin any stage, and that
it was their fixed determination to proceed with it on
Monday next.
Mr. DISRAELI did not think her Majesty's Mi-
nisters were the parties who ought to depre-
ciate the labours of Parneau eutary Committees. Al-
though the Noble Lord ha d not virtually approved
of the decision of the Andover Union Committee, he
had acted upon it. After I aer Majesty's Government
had acted upon the report, he thought it would have
the appearance of vindictiv enema to pursue the subject
further.

Mr. F. FRENCH
had a right to complain of the manner in which
thouf J'ilt that the Irish Members
places connected with the administration of the Irish
Poor-law were filled up..---(Hear, hear.) Almost
every situation was suppli. A. by Scotchmen.
Sir G. GREY would of ily remind the Hon. Mem-
ber that
subject, was at the head a f the Board, and that two
Mr. Twisleton, who well understood the
gentlemen who were re:di lent in Ireland were also
members of the Board.—( Hear, hear.)
Captain PECHELL ha I uo hesitation in asserting
that the course pursued 1 by the Government led the
public to believe that tl •Le decision of the Andover
Union was considered by them to be correct.
Mr. BANKES presm ned that the Government
would not object to his second motion.
Lord J. RUSSELL a /as understood to say that
he had no objection to off. :r to it,
Mr. BANKES said that in that case he would not
divide the House upon 1 first motion, and begged
to withdraw it The Hon. Member then moved
for a return of the nal) aes of all persons who had
acted as Commissioners • ff the Poor-law from the Ist
of January last up to th( 3 present time ; distinguish-
ing the periods during w: hich such Commissioners had
held such appointment.

LANDED ESTA TES IN IRELAND.
Mr. OSBORNE mov !d for a return of all landed
estates in Ireland under t' tie management of Receivers
of the Courts of Chance! y and Equity Exchequer in
Ireland
; stating the names of the receivers,
their profession or c ccupation, and residence ;
the situation and ex tent of property under
each receiver, the an nual rental, the number
of tenants, the' amount , expended on each pro-
perty for improvements since the said properties
came under the manage tinent of a Receiver of the