The Sun.
London, England, 1847-04-27 00:00:00

tn_uch better if the Government had made the period of en-
listment for the first for a term of fourteen years, and at the
enlistxpiration of that time gave the soldier an opportunity of re-
the better
way to improve the condition of the army would be.
which
tineherse the pensions to the soldiers. Tile principle upon
It atioh these pensions were bestowed were absurd and impolitic.
the to t be said that this would ental very great expense on
bettc_o_ "try ; the more expens;ve, however, war was made the
got to war upon such slio
he liked it, for it would prevent the na ion
Used to do Ist pretences as they were
et°, • He felt the gre .test interest in the condi-
of
the private soldier and the non-commissioned officer,
wee 'nfantry, the cavalry, and the ordnance of this country
atWar had
best in the world. The Right Hon. the Secretary
had most injudiciously and incorrectly stated that the
thmY " at present in a state of slavery, in consequence of
denied that assertion. They might depend upon it, that if they
A__el
dopen those advantages to the soldier, they would not in-
"c him to get rid of the only failing the British soldier had to
combat with
nthibaekse tozed. the
upon
s qHe would no' trouble their Lordships with any
further observations he thanked them for the attention they
pounestthio.
the few remarks he had felt it necessary
l__Lord
STRAFFORD then addressed the House at some
"gtht but his observations were perfectly inaudable in the
gallery.
raenLotrd DE ROS had some doubt as to whether the induce-
held out by her Majesty's Government to the old soldier
''fould cause him to re enlist, or to join those bands of pen-
sun:Mfrs of which mention hail been made. In the event of its
tiietirbreoionmg rt, the most serious inconvenience would arise from
e necessity of taking a large number of raw recruits to fill
In the cavalry, of which he was more qualified to
lore from
of the infantry, much serious inconvenience would
!rise from the recruits' want of knowledge with regard to their
They world require men who were experienced grooms,
~,4nlitnot men who three months before had been tailors or sh'oe-
t7LdH.he.did not see hew such en evil was to be got over.
o these grounds, and on others which he would not trouble
bd Lords, p, by stating, as the objections they contained
tba slready been put forth by others, he should not support
Lord CLEVELAND said that he did not think that this
Measure would accomplish two of the great objects which it
Professed to accomplish, namely, that of inducing a better class
of men to enlist in the army, or that of keeping them in the_
thought
When their period of enlistment had expired. H
t'llght that twenty years was the utmost period that a soldier
should be called upon to serve, for their Lordships had to con-
sider that he had to bear the extremes of heat and cold—he
,had
to undergo fatigues and privations, and the effect was that
'es', after ten years' servitude could boast of a strong or healthy
constitution. He should certainly recommend that all soldiers
discharged at the end of ten years servitude should have a
Peesion of 6d. a day-
Lord STANLEY said that he felt the greatest difficulty in
dealing with this question, but his difficulties would have been
greatly increased if he supposed that his Noble Friend the
Duke who sat near him had recommended its adoption to the
Government. But although the Noble Duke hail declared
bls intention of voting for the second reading of the measure,
still they might gather from his speech that he at best thought
that the evils which were threatened by the measure might
possibly be avoided, and they could easily gather from him, that
he was inclined to think it an uncalled for, and, at best, a
doubtful measure. The Noble Earl sought by it to make the
army popular, and :to assist, by the training of an efficient
militia, the military defences of the country. The Noble
Earl's address for the first hour and a half was exceedingly in-
teresting, as showing the efforts that had been made to improve
the condition of the army, but not one word of that portion of
his address had reference to the present measure or in any dis-
tant manner bore affinity to it. Let the Government go on
improving the moral condition of the men—let them improve
their domestic comforts—let them improve the quality
of their provisions—let them give them libraries and
means of mental recreation, but giving these, would it be al-
leged that they were incompatible with enlistment for periods
al the individual's pleasure ? It was alleged that the army was
~40pular. Where was the proof that it was so ? Was this
calculated to make it more so? He thought not. He had
returns of the enlistment from 1817 to 1838 (and this in a time
91 Peace) in the London district, and he found that out of the
Initense number of 12,006 who had enlisted, only 218 had
chosen the period of limited service. But he would take a
liatt.irst°nger ease. He found that from the year 1809 to the year
I)4;lub'e3r9o,6altly 7 persons had enlisted in Dublin, and out of this
But this
95 menhad
chosen the limited period of service.
all trip% System was put an end to in 1829 by
order from the Government? Then why
appeal to that House on this question ? Why appeal to
I,.reariltieadmeenntlistthen ? An order could at once command that
recruits—_they
should be the rule from that flay forward.
testy Whited took from the agricultural labourers, who were their
took from the manufacturing districts who
wete their next best recruits—hut if they passed this Bill,
!n:Yr would begin to take from the class of lawyers clerks, and
u! result would be, that they would have a dissatisfied and in-
3thobordinate body of men in the army. It was his opinion that
thar who
entered the army as the law now stood, considered
_r _ it did not matter whether they inlisted for a limited period
0 for life • but if their Lordships passed this Bill, they would
be oldin'
ilathhi • g out an inducement to the scape-grace or
It nklnt; youth to enter the army.—( Hear, hear.)
by Would le to the manning f the servic
Ng.", class of men who would look upon their duties as a tem-
e
of nrY occupation instead of a profession. Now, the success
no arnsy—the efficiency of the army it would be denied by
ju Pta"Y, depended upon the existence of a different feeling.
pro'f l,ancy then applying the same rule to any other trade or
came_ 'ion Could they ever ensure success or perfection in any
e..,arug, where a feeling was only encouraged, that the parts-
The trade or profession was to be mporary and not permanent.
Idea was p
oppcoed not only tote experience, but to common
itivnle,sandi yet that was in point of fact the principle enunciated
:ipoints 811. He had now disposed of the arguments of three
titenet. erged in favour of this Bill by the Noble Earl who intro-
eneu':,,,t, and he had now to say a word, and a word would be
esnt to the reason a idneed by a Noble and Gallant Gene-
„i?"ho he did now see in his place, in support of this Bill.
,J, 1_ Noble and Gallant General seemed to think that the pro-
°ns of this Bill would prevent the desertion of the soldier
tit ti had served in the army for some length
13i11 ;net Why, were was the necessity for a
he foun °
prevent such an occurrence as that, when
8
WhWhoerge ' the published returns, that of the number ofpersrns
serted from the British army, nearly the whole of them
and e )°ong recruits, who were disgusted with the hardships
severe discipline of the first year's dri:l. The same Noble
th'-'°4l also remarked that the provisions of this Bill would have
e effect of inducing commanding officers to pay more atten-
tion to the conveniences and comfOrts of his men. Such an
argument as that only served to threw discredit upon the exer-
tions of past commanding officers, while it only al-
tered the present principle thus much, that if a soldier
Misbehaved himself, this Bill would place in the
hands of his commanding officer power to offer a reward
instead of chastisement for amendment, and thus held out a
premium for the acts of the wrong-doer. Looking, then, to
the experience of the past, and acting upon the conclusions
that such experience must lead to, he called upon their Lord-
ahips, notwithstanding the opinion of the Noble Duke the
Commander-in-Chief, not to pass the measure.
The Earl of lIARDWICK said he rose to call the atten-
tion of their Lordships to a branch of this ssbject which had
not yet been touched upon. Their Lordships were aware that
this Bill applied to the marines as well as to the army. Now,
it was well known that it took five years' servitude to make a
good marine. It was absolutely necessary, therefore, that the
enlistment of marines should take place for a longer period than
ten years.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that it was with the
most sincere conviction that he believed the present measure
Would tend to popularize the army, and by so doing improve
its moral condition. He could not, for a moment, believe that
ttick he passing of this measure would be attended with that
or danger which some of his Noble Friends
Laid said would attend it. It had been said that
the good soldiers would leave at the end of ten years,
hY under the existing system, with respect to the good con-
duct warrants, only about twenty-five persons per annum had
availed themselves of its
provisions ; and was it to be supposed
(Trat such great numbers would leave the army on the
passing
b this measure ? It was a supposition perfectly unwarranted
bYe the experience of the past. If he thought that such would
potitne result, he should most certainly not have given his sup••
y „ tn,the measure. The principle of the BM was founded
„41,1`,t.l tne Principles of human nature, and unless the British
States`i
diflerently constituted from the soldiers of other
•i the measure would be as eminently successful in this as
in other countries.
t 441 BRouG HAN' said that their Lot dships had only sat
there since five or six o'clock, but he hail been there since ten
" clock th
that l at morning. He had been sustained there through
aith_ lend sitting by the interest that the debate had excited,
b,23,negh he felt extremely fatigued from the length of time he
felt
there. He had no military knowledge or skill, but
be e bound to express to their Lordships the views
none entertained upon this subject. The measure was
c of the Comatander-in-Chiers suggestion. The
Lornmander. in-Chief would have been the last man to
`...l_4ettie
suggested such a measure to the country, and he had not
yeassanctioned it by his high authority. In speaking upon this
andin ure, his Noble Friend had only moderately supported it,
while, on the part of Government, he spoke in favour of
the measure, he gave his reasons for doing so, every one of
Which reasons told all against it. Those reasons were all
Meant to guard his own consistency, and they did most amply
guard it ; and his warning to the Government to leave the army
!lone, seemed to say that lie would give them his assistance
'f they wished it, but they had better leave it alone.
The Noble Duke had addressed
he was ressed the
tßouset:itanotitt
earegla,ra,s,,taithhset
pentaormesem portioneasu for
of
r that
twrnh
asurShies,vot:ad been droppeyd by the
way, and which might be retrospective in its operations, or
might render the re-enlistment of the soldier, after the 10 or 12
Bears had expired, no longer a matter of option. He (Lord
rougham) had never, in any debate in that House, heard
speeches delivered by his Noble Friends round him, and espe-
cially the Noble Lord who spoke last, in which the arguments
used were so utterly at variance with each other, or where
the different portions of their speeches were so conflicting. There
seemed to be a doubt as to the result of the measure itself,
and although it was supported, it was supported in so timid a
strain,
• that it almost looked like condemeation. His Noble
Friend opposite had stated that the object of the measure was
to
make the army popular. Was not the present law, as it
related to the army, quite as well calculated to effect that ob-
jfe°et• The law permitted enlistment for life, for seven, or for
iBnlteen year! ; at least that was allowed down to the year
os'ut when it was suspended by an order of Lord Hill. The
vernment had, however, still the power to enforce limited
tl)llstment, without bringing the measure so fully under
. e discussion of the Houses of Parliament. They
iould at any time issue an order reversing the order of
Leis Hill, Hill, and there was their object attained at once.
poll ',obits Friend had said that one of the ways to be used to
thi:4"ri,,e as he called it, the army was to make dismissal from
rankshis ; punishment. How did that agree with the rest of
she Nutrients, for at the end of a period of ten or twelve years
this 's would be dismissed and re-enlist. Ile thought that
of ienleasure was pregnant with all the seeds, he would not say
latetistehordination, but of discontent. It was one not calcu-
Was - ° improve the condition and efficiency of the army, and
s snPerfltious and fruitless trouble. This Bill professed to
aeirllothing that they could not have done without a Bill at all,
!ad without
caused weeiethoeuattitte byfruitless discussion end trouble which
i
this measure. The proceeding in that
'rersati would in a short time form the subject of military con-
that h nns all over the country. In less than twelve hours all
seldierar been said in that House would be known to every
They would
kooss'to, 8t• James's and all over the country.
officer at it seemed to bo the unanimous feeling of all the
Biers who had addressed the House that night, that the sol-
ceedi,:drnot sufficiently large pensions. Would not such pro-
by thea:,:le calculated to excite discontent and dissatisfaction
measure. mot to enforce a needless, useless, and superfluous
brought He deeply lamented that such a measure had been
t forward H
teelime th . • e strongly and conscientiou•ly opposed it;
.andt
the fuert,
ee evils it would create, he for one, should vote agents
Earl Progress of this Bill.—( Hear. )
his `-`rtY said that the 'Noble and Learned Lord had, in
tioet!):'Cll indulged in some romantic ideas upon this subject,
of his Seth,, he replied strongly—presuming upon the ignorance
any rate,fle,arers- The Noble and Learned Lord should, at
aria L nave known the law as it then existed. The Noble
Griverred Lord had the other evening spoken against the
thorised to
in counineeitilt for taking it upon themselves to issue an order
,d which, by Parliament, they were distinctly au-
Uectsw, 0. Time Noble Lord now stated that there was no
444. y for this Act, as the power for enlisting for a
" Pa-110d already existed. He could state to the