The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-16 00:00:00

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quantity of beans, peas, and other produce, for the consump-
tion of the neighbourhood. Ile had expressed a hope that the
Government woulc: assist hira Seethe matter which they had dune.
Ithis Gentleman had never desired his name to be mentioned,
though it deserved toa'oesaas well as many others in Ireland
who had anted in sn equally meritorious manner. At the same
time it was equally true that many proprietors who were deriv-
ing larga incomes from Ireland had totally neglected their
duty, and failed in contributing to meet the destitution which
prevailed. He rejoiced, therefore, that the present Billwould
oblige them to contribute in purse to the support of the
destitute. It was important that these parties should
knew that if they did not exert themselves to
provide employment for the people, they would have
w
to support them out of their ineornes.—(Hear, hear.) This,
he thought, was the most valuable portion of the Bill. He
had now stated the general reasons why be trusted the House
Having agreed to
would assent to the
considered in committee ;
rinciihe of the
that, the details of it ceu'il be better
would now affirm the
as they would then receive all thel
tehnaitlera ion which they
deserved. In conelusine, he trusted they
e:as that Irish property
main principle of the measure,.
and leave all the dett.l.s
should be charged wish Irish diswtiraetsts;
rwards.--t Cebe'Orts.)
to be fully and earecully eisciveet
with re.: ;once to the people
Mr. S. O'BRIEN said that,
impossible exaegerate their munificence
of England, it was
to the Irish People ; but he had sad, and he repeated the as-
sertion, that a national gsvernment in the country would hare
been able to guarantee every itelividual in that country from
starvation. He was net dasenett to question the liberalist of
Parliament. He cnnsi- erred 10,000 ear, a saesiflee wade
by them, but he baliered that the motley which had been
expended might have been dime se more advent a•
geously for the p ( Hear, hear,) He considered
that if the State sad to the Tri-h railway companies
that they would advance half or the capital peril, tacit necessary
to advance their swnperty, a great mid material bent fit would
have been ccnferred. No reproductive work had been under-
taken for a long time, and the capital which could have been
called forth was suffered to remain quiescent and languish. A
Ireat part of the session has been lust in attacks upon the
rish proprietors. He was not about to undertake their
defence, but this would say, that there were instances
of generosity and liberality which equalled, if they
did not surpass any that could be brought forward. If the
Irish party effected but a friendly intercourse between Gentle-
men on the opposite side of the' House, they would have
achieved a great good —( Hear, hear.) He was not a party to
their resolutions, and he, conseighently, was not subject to the
animadversions which had been cast- tijislti7 them, for, in his
opinion, a system of ,poor-laws was absoltitely necessary for the
welkre of the entreaty.
!dr. ROEBUCK, the opening portion of whose speech, as
well as various tebtr parts, were perfectly inaudible in the
gallery, was uniderstood to say, that. the Hon. Member for the
University of Dublin had, on a recent occasion, stated to the
Bonne thet he was perfectly at a loss to discover the rnetttn
for his)( Mr: Roebuck's) conduct. The arnenttiteseelinntinned
the lion. and Learned Memlaer—Uf ttn.',. gentleman's mind
could suggest to him eel, Vhe motive as actuating his, which
'was that of English spite towards Irish landlords. Spite, against,
whom? agaitiet what he (Mr. Shaw) was pleased to call the
Landlords of Ireland. He (Mr. Roebuck) did not know who
the landlords of Ireland were; he had never been able to dis-
tinguish or to 'earn who those gentlemen were. For his part
be thought that the real landlords ot Ireland were the tax-
gatherer and the mortgagee. Now, he never expressed any
opinion against the tax gatherer or against the mort-
gagee. He was perfectly aware that there were
many persons in Ireland called landlords, who fancied
themselves t sbe proprietors of land, but who
had not the M4ates- of supporting the dignity belonging to their
station, as such; and-he (Mr. Roebuck) had often suggested
that such Friona should be removed from their false position,
which they occupied as merely nominal proprietors of land in
lrelana. is order that Ireland might be disencumbered
from those who were hanging, like a dead weight, upon her
energies ar} resources, and allow the real proprietors of her
land at WfWee to he called into activity and exertion, and be
trade insieirriental in promoting the interests which they
posses ed in thathsountry. What did the House, however, now
gropuse to do. Ile. would venture to say that, upon the pre-
Newt occasion, flies-et were two separate questions before the
Rouse, and two really different and distinct things spoken of
by Hon. Gentlemen who had spoken upon those questions.
Some llon. Gentlemen said " Oh, we are agreed upon all
things except upon the principle ot out-door relief ;" and then
directly some other Hon. and frith Member would get up and
Intake a speech against all poor-laws whatever. If the House
would peamit him, he would dwelt fo: a few moments on these
circumstances, and then say a word or two with respect
to the real feelings of Honourable Gentlemen opposite,
'What was it then that t't e House was endeavouring to do?
and -what was the snide in s. hich it was proposed to bsing
about the end it hail in vice ? At the present moment there
appeared to b. in IreLnd a resat kahle collision -of classes
large masses of her lahaeriag preulation were not subsistng
upon wages our t:Toney-I for thelr subsistence upon their
small holdings of By a peculiarity connected with that
country the laud:eels -,have been induced to divide
their propel ty into itanutue.robie small potions, and
the result 0, theta ineintessimt! division of holdings
would be, twat it anythirig like what had h espened
last year alituld occur again, the same disastrous results would
take place as bad marked the history of Ireland during the
wiresant year. A lore multande of ;tenons were deeendent
upon these small p itches of land for their maintenance and sup-
port, and if a failure should take place, tar aophine title a gone-
ral calantity creme teem the people, a gefterel and universal
famine was the result. There wes also :another peculiarity at-
tached to these small holdings of land, which was, the agrarian
distuebanees which always overspread the country. These
dis:utb ,noes arose entirely out of these small holdings. It was
mor beesesee one portion of ths people were starving and another
was out, that agrarian diatuthances t Ark place. It was because
ehee.eemali holdings of land were essentially necessary for the
exigence of the people. Tee law had flat been their protector,
and the coasequance had been that the people had had
recourse to every species and system of self-defence for
the purpose of nasintaiiiing their holdings. But they had
been driven to this by dire neces-ity ; the very exigencies
of their condition had driven them to attempt a stand avinst
the tyranny of their imperious landlords, who tractile upon
every slight eteteece, and upon the must ins' lcient grounds to
eject them from their holdings. Thor were not so iu England,
And why ? The poor man knew ftfll well that there was a poor
house and a hoer-law to atlerd him shelter. In Ireland, on
the contrary, the poor man sew death—nothine but death
setting him and his family in the face, and he was compelled out
suf dire necessity to fall back upon some means of self-defence.
by which they could maiwain their holdings against the do.
iminatioti of their landlords, and hence it was that conspiracies
spread from one end of the country to the other, ar.d threats
tram shore to shore. Hence it was that numerous combine•
thins had been formed for the purpose of carrying out this
wild spirit of justice, and the instruments or assassins of the
combinations hail been brought from the north and from the
south in order to carry into execution the wild determlnations
of gongs of secret conspirators. What was their object ? It
was nothing more than to maintain the p tor man upon his
holding, an i to protect him by a species of wild justice in the
absence of milder forms of law against the imperious domi-
nation of the merely nominal proprietors of the soil. Such was
condition of the large labouring population of Ireland,
mad unless England stepped in and brought some measure to
hear upon this state of things, such would continue to be their
wretched condition. And the same wild spirit of justice, and
unhappy, and unchristian mode of maintaining the means of
that existence would continue. The Hon,e would, however,
by the adoption of the proeored measure bring the people under
the mild spirit of the law, and mike the property of Ireland
the oneens of providing for the exis.ence of the poor, insure a
is irit of mildness, gentleness, en.] subservience to tire law, in
place of the conspiracies, and the ill-feelings, and the secret
'societies which previously existed. Who were the ac-
cusers of these righteous measures? The landlords of
Ireland. It was a 'Roble sight to see the land-
lords of Ireland laving aside their personal censide-
rations, putting aside all their feelings of aggrandisement, and
devoting themselves to the improvement of the condition
of the people, but there was not a more degrading or a ire
debasing sight in than to see thee. eh() were rich in this world's
goods banded toeetle r for purposas of det,tice and aggression
against .hr, poor, and bringing to hear all the power which
their station and intellect could command, to crush is hat should
be considered by all right-thieking per one a' the rights of the
poor. Could he riot then ask the House to look upon this
picture and upon that. The people of ErraWand asked that a
inw equal to that which exisied in Fe-wised should be passed
for Ireland. He would not be told that that which was bene-
Sieent legisla ion eir the poor in England would be the ruin of
Ireland. 'f he Hon. at ti Learned Member then mad , some
remarks upon the speech of the Hon. Member for the Un ver-
eity of Dubin, but which were perfectly inaudible in the gallery.
:Now, in what pesitinn were they placed wen regard to this
eluestten ? I, was tteetetul that Irchnd must have
a real ated of eteit pent law, in spirit to the poor law
of Engeand. ; Nobreenef she teeene in Ireland, bur the intel.
b,gent opitOon• attnia cervitry ern lered the enactment os
eueh a lawtirieeeo;;ary.—i tle.r„ hoar,) Sech a poor-law
tneatit that 'there was a right, o t the part of
the destitute peer to reliet —( Hear, hear)--a right
to receive rto.it-f eteeewhere, awl in sat-tie sa istectory manner.
It did not involve the law of settlement—it did not involve
the law of removal, a at those points they did not quarrel
to tat. New they already had the houses and the adrainiy-
erators of the law ; they tat got the law of settlement and the
law ot removal, and to that Government wished to add was
glut-door relief, upon its being clearly ascertained that the re-
clttient wits really destitute and in want. Irish gentlemen,
however ithipmed to his, and in doing snit would seem to argue
that It i h landlords ought not to be galled upon to pay in this
'may fur the relief of the poor. And whenthese gentlemen dis-
c use-l:1'1,h geesti mettle Ttestion itself invariably meant there-
•selves. Indeed. wit it Ireland was talked about by them, Ireland
-meant not"), re; mo-e nor less than Irish lan Borth.,
and because they were celled upon to fulfil those duties their
property imposed upon them, they declared that Ireland was
being ruined.—(hear, hear, and laughter.) Now, far from its
being ruined, Ireland was just in a condition when it was most
likely to advance in the progress of civilisation.—( Hear, hear.)
Ireland, according to Irish Members, had been retrograding
since the Union, but he had lately seen more and better pigs
and cattle imported into Liverpool than were brought
-from Ireland twenty years ago. -The fact was, Ireland had
improved within the last ten or twenty- years mole than any
other country in Europe, and it was well known that those
who had a bright and fair prospect before there invariably
complained more than those who were sunk into the depths of
degradatien.—( Hear, hear.) One Hon. Gentleman had that
afternoon told them that the Irish landlords had made
presentments of two sums of 86,000/. and 68,000 i., being
"23. in the pound of the whole rental of the country ; but who
paid the money? Why, the English Exchequer; so that it
was England that paid equal to 2s. in the pound of the rental
el the country.
Mr. W. S. O'BRIEN—Yes ; but the money is to be re--
paid.
Mr. ROEBUCK never trusted such repayments. One
shilling pkid down was worth twenty shillings promised. Then,
again, it was said the landlords were ruined.
An How. MEMBER.—No, no.
Mr. ROEBUCK—WeII, if they were not, why didn't they
!WNW ?—( Hear and laughter.) They must either admit that
met, were ruined and could not pay, or they must confess. 'rim 'they were not mined, antiepay.-41ear, hear.)
mode Another
of meeting Irish questions was the cry, of " Let tee
itaba.taele,.a. Carty, then Ireland will be safe. ' They had
whefi
tinz par= pecimen of the " national party," and,
Hon. Member foty• m"in
Palace-yard, they found the
Limerick, declaring he would have nothing
Ito do with their as,
to the east, while Lord
111ounteashel, being osuad
mind, marched towards the
'Treasury ; and what with s'ounmell7
were lefytingto the east, and others to
-r
%tc, call themselves the " Na-
- the west, two gentlemen
nationalarian differences
tional party of Ireland." Until
the I.7.Pnlrvtl. Until he saw the
rid of he had no hope for a were got
Hon. and Learned, ember for
quietly
down with the Hon. Member f rsihy. of Dublin lying
them united together in harmony and good fellow h' e found
points, ho should have no faith in the truth or sines 'tp upon all
Ttu tilut the fire of bieotry still
17,,Y of their
reconct on ered in th
breast of the Henou -able and Learned Member for thee
University of Dublin, and it might still break oat in an
the fury of 1810, or fifteen years ago, when
the
Ematenpatioo Bel was being agitated. The 6re was not yet
dead: Thes had a pro it or th s the other day when the Hon.
Member for-K
nsate brim ht forward a ragged remnant of
olela bigotry, when that Il ght Hen. tientleman and that party
who v.eniril to Is in dosses for the acatial improvement
of Ireland, vote t against if. he Weir e Lord he Alernber for
Lynn, did the same, as he bogged the Noble Lord's
pardon. 'I he Neble Lord doiweeed more liberality than
the rest, and recorded his Cote in fax'Ullr of the bill.