The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-03 00:00:00

of the House had treated the question under consideration in a
becoming and proper spirit. He for one could not admit that
Ireland should come before them as a mendicant seeking alms
from England. That was not the footing on which he asked
assistance for the present alarming distress. It should be
granted not as alms, but as justice.—( Hear, hear.) Ireland
should be treated on the same principle as that which regu-
lates the affairs of a private family. When one member of
a family is afflicted with some great, or sudden, and tremendous
affliction, the other members of the family come forward to
afford relief.—( Hear, hear.) In the same way the Legislature
should come forward and assist the misfortunes and necessities
of Ireland.—(Cheers.) It was not his intention to trespass
on the House at any length to-night. as he thought the general
feeling of those present was favourable to the propositions of
the Government, and that they would allow the Bills to be
read a second time without further delay, reserving the discus-
sion of the details till in Committee.—(Hear, hear.) If the
-louse would do so—if they would allow the Bills to be read a
second time, he would pledge himself that they should be
brought into Committee with as little delay as possible.
Let them recollect the importance of these measures. He
alluded particularly to the Temporary Distress Bill. It was
exceedingly important that that measure should be passed with.
out the loss of any time but what was absolutely necessary for
the faireliscussion of the question.—( Hear, hear,) The House
appeared generally of opinion that whatever might be said of
the system of relief in operation at present, it was high time
that the works commenced under it should be brought to a
close, and ansther system introduced in its stead. If so, then time
was valuable in order to liberate the labourers for the cultivation
of the soil. He did not believe that much injury had been done
as yet, though some effects might have been produced—effects
that had been greatly exaggerated.—( Hear, hear.) The Go-
vernment le d thought it their duty to collect information on
this point, and they had caused a series of queries to be is-
sued in order to learn what the people of Ireland were about in
cultivating the soil and preparing for the next harvest. The
result of these queries showed that there was a much larger
breadth of land under wheat than in former years ; and that
in the potato growing districts rye and beer had been substi-
tuted for that article to a considerable extent.—(Hear,
hear.) As yet little had been done towards preparing the
spring crops; yet, nevertheless, no irremediable injury had
been committed, and if the farmers had labourers now there
was yet am le time to make every preparation for the coming
harvest. He thought also that it must be obvious to the
House that they must persevere in the present system of public
works unless they would leave the people to starve, or
be prepared to substitute the other system. To delay the
present measure, therefore, would be perpetuating the
system which had been condemned, and interfere materially
with the necessary preparations of the land for the next year.
He threw out these suggestions for the consideration of the
House, in order that the Bill might be read a second time,
and then considered in Committee, thus preventing any
unnecessary delay. He had ho right to complain of the tone
or temper in which the House had received these measures.
They had given the Government credit fur having acted with
the best intentions, however mush they might differ on the
valley pursued. Had it been otherwise, he should not have
complained, considering the extraordinary circumstances of
the case. But some Hon. Members had expressed themselves
strongly agsinst the policy of the Government in relation to
the importation and sale of food. He could assure such Hon.
Members that they had not acted as they did without mature
consideration; arid, so far from time and experience
having altered his opinion, on the contrary, he
believed, that had they followed the opposite course spoken of,
and imported provisions into Ireland, and established depots,
not on the coast alone, as they had done, but throughout the
interior of the country—if they had become importers as well
as distributors of food, they would have aggravated, in a most
painful degree, all the horrors of famine.—( Loud cries of
" Hear, hear.") Had it been practical, as asserted, by that
course to have relieved distress, reduced prices, and saved
human life, he would not have objected to the infrac-
tion of the abstract doctrine of political economy ;
but because he believed that distress would have been much
aggravated, prices raised, and famine extended, he must ex-
press his decided opinion that the Government had pursued the
only proper conrse.—(llear, hear.) They had also been
blamed because they had not sold the corn imported under cost
price. The reason they had not done so was, because of the
unfavourable influence such a step would have exercised over
the retail dealers in Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) It would have
done serious injury to this important class—a class respecting
which, he believed, Ireland would not be safe until they were
greatly extended. In order to place Ireland in a proper condi-
tion respecting distribution, they must have village shops every-
where. It was with this view that they refused assistance to
those relief committees that would not act upon the principles
which they laid down, which were that they should sell the pro-
duce at a rate which would yield a fair profit. He was firmly
convinced that the Government had acted right in adhering to
what was called the abstract principles of political
economy, which were the principles of common sense.
(The Right Honourable Gentleman here read a letter frem
the chairman of a relief committee in the county of West-
meath, showing that the most beneficial course had been to
charge the produce at the usual rates sought by private
dealers. The Bight Honourable Gentleman continued by
stating that this was only a specimen of the general feeling in
Ireland of those who had experience respecting these matters.
The Government had considered that their best course was
to do nothing which would check or interfere with
the retail dealer.—( Hear, hear.) It was real huma-
nity and real wisdom for them to follow the dictates
of experience and common sense, which were also the doc-
trines of political economy. Complaint had also been made
why the Government had not stopped distilling from grain in
Ireland. If distilling had been stopped in Ireland, there was
no reason why it should not have been stopped in Scotland
and England, the effect of which would have been to have
renewed smuggling to a very great extent, and enriched those
who had large stocks of spirits on hand while those
who tad small quantities would have been seriously
injured.—( Hear, hear.) He believed no practical relief
would have been gained by such an arrangement. While on
this subject, he would ref.. r to what had fallen from the Hon.
Member for Meath, who had represented a distillery in
Dublin as using large quantities of oats and other grain.
In answer to that he was bound to state to the House that he
had received a letter from that firm, which stated that ell
the grain which had been used had been imported from abroad.
Such a course would prevent many persons from obtaining
labour in distilleries, while they would not succeed in saving
any provisions. He was unwilling, on the present occasion, to
make many ob_ervations about what had been said with regard
to the measures proposed by her Majesty's Government for the
relief of Ireland. He felt that these measures were so im-
portant that they deserved a grave and general consideration,
and they could not be discussed with advantage in,the general
manner in which only they could be treated en the present
occasion. He woeldonly observe that it was unjust to say of the
Government that it was characterised by a desire to enrich the
Irish landlords without considering the effect on the main body of
the people of Ireland. Let them consider what were the wants of
Ireland at the present moment. One of the greatest of her
wants was employment for her population, and he knew no
immediate-way of providing employment unless by the agency
of the State. The Government had offered assistance to the
landowners to enable them to employ the great body
of the people, and allowing that to be the
sound principle recognised by England, it could be
effected by loans to the landowners. It had been said that
these loans were not to be repaid. On the contrary, it would
be paid, and he would call the attention of those who doubted
the fact, that all loans previously advanced to the Irish land-
lords had usually been repaid. It was not only just to the
country, bat to the Imperial Treasury. The circum-
stances under which the present loan was proposed were
of the greatest consequence. It was impossible not to see how
sweeping had been the calamity, the destruction of food; and
what millions now lived on the surface of the soil of Ireland
without the prospect of sufficient food for their subsistence, as
well as at once to see of what consequence it was to give every
stimulus, by legitimate and particular means, to the productive-
ness of the soil of Ireland. The project of draining the waste
lands must be a means of producing a great increase in the
crops. It was necessary to carry this principle into effect, and
it would be for them to decide in what manner when the de-
tails of the Bill should be laid before them. He did not know
that he need tresspass any further in addressing the House,
except to say that he felt the greatest gratification at the tem-
perate spirit in which the House had treated the most import-
ant measure now submitted to their consideration and delibera-
tion. He agreed that that spirit was of the greatest benefit
to Ireland. The spirit evinced by the House on that occasion
was of equal importance to Ireland as the measures themselves.
—( Hear, hear.) He could not help hoping that it would be of
benefit to that country, when he saw that the spirit of union
and energy were spreading themselves, and a spirit of mode-
ration rising up, from which they might expect the best con-
sequences. He was sure that the English nation was only
anxious to supply the wants and wishes of the Irish people;
and as long as they pursued the temperate and tolerant course
which had made its appearance, they should not have to com-
plain of the Parliament or the people of England—either
would b 3 ready to do for her all that she could naturally ex-
pect.—( Cheers. )
Sir R. PEEL said, Sir I concur with the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman that it will be much more advantageous to discuss the
measures intended to effect a permanent improvement in the
condition of society in Irelrnd when we shall be put in posses-
sion of the details of the measure, more than by the present
Bill, and enabled to enter into a debate upon it. At the same
time, lam not surprised that those gentlemen connected with
Ireland, after the scenes they have witnessed, and after the
struggles and difficulties they have felt, feel, as they must do,
deeply interested in the welfare of their native coun-
try, and deeply sympathise with those suffering
from the terrible effects of the calamity with which it is
afflicted. lam not surprised that they should feel themselves
anxious, at the earliest opportunity to submit their views with
respect to the operation of measures of this important nature to
this House. I for one not having this motive for entering upon
a discussion which they have, feel that it is of
much importance that we should proceed at once
to discuss those measures intended to reach the difficulties
which threatened them. At the present time I am unwilling
to oppose any delay in the way of any measure you might be
prepared to grant ; but as I think that you are entitled to frame a
full and complete liberty to her Majesty's Government from the
responsibility of the course which they are pursuing, it may be
advantageous at once to decide that the Bill which grants
that indemnity, and which Parliament seems willing to
accede, should be prefaced by a full explanation
of the circumstances under which this responsibility
has been assumed by the Government.—( Hear, hear.)
You may entirely approve of the assumption of that responsi-
bility, yet still, when the executive Government, however
justifiably it may be, undertakes to supersede the ordinary ope.
ration of the law, I doubt whether it is not for the public ad.
vantage that all the circumstances connected with that assump-
tion of power by the Executive should be fully stated. I ad-
vise Hon. Gentlemen to consider whether, in taking the liberal
power, they should not explain the circumstances under which
the ordinary law is superseded, and whether it will not
be for the advantage of those who may. hereafter refer
Parlia-
ment this
assumption of power—thatthe indemnity anted by B anti" to set sehe
rplaced in the preamble, or appendix to the
Lord. I
am tprfeo
prepared
the particular letter read by the Noble
tweed m vote at once for this Bill, giving an
indemnity to the
the Bill, and as it ise; With respect to the details of
nu.treZetd to make a total alteration of
the system under which relief is at once give my co.nteeeinee to now grlansetdhinkl alsothe
evil of the present sy
great, and
cannotthink
that the sooner you apply the remedy help thinking that there is great Ydathnieter considering how
peasantry should
nearly we ,approach that periodat wptsdn4
not be employed in labouring
as concerns the harvest of next year iZ
w
Government to make a material alterationwi' enable the
Irlk
.thelSereeo pr
at eard -
ore
sent system by permitting labour to be apa
the cultivation of the soil.—( Hear, hear.) 'r-h'
scarcely two months when, withcut reference
spring corn, labour ought to be most activel to
y employed.
I know that labour is sometimes not applied in Ireland, partly
from the condition of the soil, and partly from the superior
moistness of the climate. The sooner, however, that you
make an alteration in the present system with regard to the
cultivation of the soil, the better it will be for the country.
ant rather surprised that the Right Hon. Gentlemen underrates
the danger arising from the application of labour to public
works. Did nut the Right Hon. Gentleman remember that,
in August last, he resisted the operations of the late Govern-
ment, and said when only between 60,000 and 70,000 were
employed on the public works, that great inconvenience arose,
from the labour being diverted into the ordinary channels.
How much more must that inconvenience be now ? I

thought that the conduct of the Irish landlords deserves
praise; and the active benevolence of the ladies has suf•