The Sun.
London, England, 1841-06-04 00:00:00

MORNINO EDITION

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tion. That Right Hon. Gentleman said, if the Goveinnient iby inhabitants in a state of starvation from want of em-
ceased to possess the confidence of the House of Commons, I ployment, yet surrounded by a fertile county, would it be
they ought not to continue to held the reins of power ; but tolerated that the inhabitants should be prevented by hheir.
the want of confidence he meant, was not that shown in the Town Council from trading with the inhabitants of that
inability to carry certain measures, but distrust in the mode of county, who were willing to employ themeand to trade with
administering the existing law. That was the want of confi- them, because some of the Aldermen possessed estates in distant
deuce which, according to the Right Hon. Gentleman, should counties and insisted on having the monopoly of the supply. of
cause the Government to resiee office. But that was only the town? The real question was not whether these measures
draw ing a distinction without a'difference—it was "an ingeni- should be carried—tiny must be carried—but whether they
ous device," a plausible, but by no means sound argument. should be carried fully, freely, and fairly by those who had
Was there any more important duty of the Executive, broughtelem forward, or reluctantly and slowly by the Right
than to propound measures to the Legislature, which Hon. Baronet. Long as the present discussion had been, it
they thought necessary for the good of the people ? It was had not been too long to inform the people sufficiently on all
not the law of the Constitution that they were not the points involved, especially that with respect to the Corn-
simple Members of Parliament, When the Right Hon. Baro- laws. Upon that subject he would venture to say that not
net the Member for Tamworth retired from office in 1835, twelve months would pass away before the landlords would have
the Noble Lord at the head of her Majesty's Government said come to the conviction that for the safety of their prosperity
that the Right Hon. Baronet acted in conformity with the the Coin-laws should be repealed in union with other measures
apbit of the Constitution. The distinction, then, which the of a restrictive nature.—(Hear.)
Right lion. the Secretary at War drew was but a specious Mr. C. BRUCE supported the resolution of the Right Hon.
argument in defence of a Government that was determined to Baronet the Member for Tamworth. He had listened with
prolong the duration of its ignominious existence as long as it attention to the various speeches of Right Hon. Gentlemen on
could. It was a distinction negatived by the conduct of the the opposite side of the House, all of whom had mystified and
leaders of every Government and by the conduct of the Right evaded the real question, and had totally failed in answering
Hon. Baronet ( Sir R. Peel), whom his party would ever support. the arguments of the Right Hon. Baronet the Member
The Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin had called them for Tamwoith. The speech of the Right Honourable Be-
a heterogeneous mass, but they would be found united as one ronet the Member for Pembroke had excited in no small
man. They placed confidence in their leader, and would sup- degree:the bile of Hon. Members opposite; but whatever
port him dospite the tubs thrown to the whale by the Right might, or had been said of him, he (hlr. C. B.) would main-
Hone Gentleman opposite with respect to what would be his tain that that Right Hon. Baronet was as sincere a WhigTh as
legislative and judicial measures. The Government had no- he had ever been when he sat on the benches opposite. e
th ne to fear in going on with their measures but what, in tenacity to office on the part of the present Ministry, after their
their contemplation, was the greatest of all evils—a resignation, repeated defeats, had already gone farther than any former pre-
and to avoid that they were determined to throw out something cedent, and they appeared determined, notwithstanding they
wherewith to agitate the country, and they discovered that the had lost the confidence of that and the other House of Perna-
Corn-laws were most calculated to cause a ferment in the ment, relying on the support of the Sovereign to retain office,
country which would suit their purpose. still to hang on the strings of the Ladies of the Bedchamber,
Mr. O'CONNELL rose to explain. He said, strictly and call themselves a Whig Ministry—(Laughter)—although
speaking, he had no right again to address the House, but he they were abandoned by all the leading higs of the country.
submitted whether, in common justice, when personally at- Under such circumstances, that they should have been able to
tacked, and on the subject of his own property, too, he ought usurp the government of the country fur so many years, was
nut to be allowed to say a few words in Ins own defence. Fe only to be accounted for by the weakness of the body-politic.
was bound to say, first, that he had been very much assailed in The present Government had brought the country into a state
every manner in the newspapers for every thing but that. He of difficulty and danger, from which it was the duty of the
never was attackedfor his conduct as a landlord. He would say, Members on that side of the House to rescue it. What was
neat, that in all the lands which he possessed, there was not a the causes of the financial difficulties that had brought Eng-
sitiele farm that was nut let at from 4s. or 59. in the pound less land to its present condition ? They were, first, constantly
than farms on the neighbouring estates, except in one place, meddling with other States, by which they
hail brought the
where his property was met by that of his Hon. Friend be- country into little ware, and thereby drained it of its re-
bind him (Sir David Roche). He (31r. O'Connell) had, be • sources; neat, they had abandoned the real duties of a Go-
sides, more persons on his property with houses and gardens vernment, and by that means caused the present commercial
who paid him no rent at all, than any other gentleman he distress of the country. The course of policy that had been
knew of.—( Hear.) He never turned out a tenant for the pur- pursued by this country towards Holland and Belgium had led
pose of taking possession of the farm ; whenever he to the setting up of a shadow of a kingdom, and had lost this
did turn out a tenant it was on some other ground, and an- country an old and faithful ally. What had been the
other person was put in possession of the vacant farm on pay- result of the inter:erenee of this country with Spain?
ing a year's tine for getting into possession. He had never Why, the setting up of a military elespotism.
heard of it before. If his agent had done it he (Mr. O'Con- The non-success of the Legion in that country was
ne 1) was in utter ignorance of it. There never was a distress not attributable to the Gallant Officer who commanded it,
raised upon his land, and as long as he lived there never should but to the Noble Lord the Secretary of State for Foreign
be. It the statement were correct the person who had done it Affairs. What had been the policy of this country with re-
and himself would immediately part connection for the rest of gard to France ? That country had been carrying on for some
their lives. years a most unjust war of aggression on the southern shores
Sir D. ROCHE said he felt it to be his duty to hear his of the Mediterranean. Had the Noble Lord taken
testimony to the conduct of the Hon. and Learned Member any steps to put an end to the war France was carrying on
for Dublin as a landlord. He was a most forbearing landlord, aeamst the Moors and the Arabs ? If he had not, then the
and he assured the House and the Hon. Member for Baedon Noble Lord had not done his duty. But the Noble Lord might
so much so as to throw other landlords who wine willing to de say that the war was a source of weakness to France. It he
justice to their tee ants into the shade. did so, he had altogether forgotten the cause of humanity.
Mr. O'CONNELL inquired of Mr. Sergeant Jackson the He would say that the war which was now being carried on by
name of his authority. France in Numidia was as bad as that of the former Spaniards
Mr. Sergeant JACKSON replied that he would give it on in Spanish America, or as that now carried on by the Ante-
a peeper occasion. ricans, so much to their shame, against the Aboriginal tribes.
Air. SLANEY was- anxious to address the House very He knew very well that wherever our army or our navy was
briefly on the present occasion ; and in doing so he would en- sent they would reap fresh glories,- butthat was no recommens
deaveur to avoid following the example of these who had gone datlon to the policy of the Noble Lord, whose delay in nego-
before him, and not indulge in personalities. The present tiations had been the cause of war between this country and
was a most important question ; and he asked, what would the France hanging tremblingly in the balance for many months.
people think of the mode in which the debate had been con- Neither would what we had done in Syria and Egypt
ducted? There had been recriminations on both sides, but prove of any service either to the Egytian ruler
they had failed to point out the mode by which, if the present or to the Turkish Government. The annexation of
Gevernment were driven from office, the Government was to the Syrian provinces to the Turkish empire would add
be conducted by their successors. He did not deny that the to her n a elements of strength to resist Russia. Not to dwell
Right Hon. Baronet would endeavour to do something to re- longer on foreign policy, he would make a present of the final
here the great distress which existed in the country, but what settlement of the Boundary question, and congratulate him
was it he proposed? He believed there was a growing feeling upon his successful endeavours to procure the release of Mr.
of indifference in the country as to the spirit of parties in that IhnLeod. He would now advert to what had fallen from the
House; and that he looked upon as an alarming symptom. Right Hon. Member. for Edinburgh, who said the Government
He thought if the people were to embody their opinions in one were determined to carry the law into full effect. He would
sentence, it would be a " plague on both your factions." ask whether they had done so in regard to the present un-
His brief was that this was occasioned by great changes that happy disputes in the Church of Scotland? The people were
had been taking place among the body of the people unnoticed now threatened with a loss of the blessings of the Establishment
by the Legislature. His opinion rested upon facts which no because of the inefficiency of the Government, or their inability
one could deny. The people were looking to see what great to carry out the law. if the Lord Advocate had interfered et
practical remedy would be applied to the evils under which an early period and enforced the law, they would have heard
they suffered, He had himself visited the eastern parts of the little more of these unhappy disturbances in the Church. He
town, and he lotted masses of people in such a state of wretched must say that the conduct of the high Church party in Scot-
destitution as to almost exceed belief. He said this arose from land had been—he was going to say, but would nut—most
the inefficient state of the law. What was the object of their shabby conduct; however, he would contend that the conduct
allusions. To show that the great body of the people cared of the Government with regard to the Scotch Church, if there
little which party held the reins of power ; what they were was nothing else to go upon, would be sufficient to induce the
anxious about was to know by which party their condition Scotch Members to vote in favour of the Right Hon. Baronet's
'would be most alleviated. The increase of crime at present resolution. The present Ministry had plunged the country-
was most alarming. It might be asked what did he pro- into great financial distress—they had come to a dead stand,
pose? Why, it was his opinion that the balanced state and they brought down to the House a set of projects—
of parties was a great evil, and, much as he was he could not call it a regular Budget—calculated
attached to those around him he would rather see the Right to create agitation throughout the country, to set one
Hon. Baronet in office, doing something for the relief of the interest against another, and to distract attention from
people, than go on day after day as they did at present. One the real cause of those evils which they had raised and
great evil suffered by the people arose from the fluctuation of were now afraid to face.—( Hear, hear.) He wished ;to
employment, and it was the duty of a wise Government to ask the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer
prepare them for this and its consequences, by a sound educe- did he mean to go on with his Budget respecting the timber
tion. He thought the present Government had not sufficiently duties and the corn duties. when he knew that he had no chance
attended to this subject. Another great evil was the fluctua- of carrying them, and was only forcine Hon. Members to re-
non in the price of food.—( Hear, hear.) He said it was abso- main there during the dog-days of June ?It was said that the
lately necessary for the safety of the country that some step Corn-laws was a landlords' question, but the Government
should be taken. They were bound to begin their legislation would find that it was not the landlords alone they -would
by attempts to improve the condition of the working classes, have to contend against.. In Scotland most of the land was let
In the war of parties, in their eagerness to obtain place, these upon lease, and these leases were generally for nineteen
things were almost forgotten, but if it were not done tie feared years. The tenants, relying on the faith i f their leases,
they would have soon reason to regret it. He was not san- in most cases laid out their own capital in improvements and
guise as to the result of this contest ; but he did implore the buildings ; and he asked the. Right Hon. the Chancellor of the
Rielit Hon. Baronet, after he should succeed to power, to use Exchequer, who he believed to be as humane as moat Chan-
it, not for the aggrandisement of his party, but for the improve- ceders of the Exchequer, whether there would not be ' some
silent of the condition of his fellow-countrymen. one great injustice in sacrificing the capital of that valuable and-useful
claim they had upon his sympathies was, that they were unrepre. class of men, the farmers of Scotland? On these grounds he
sented. Should he sit in any future Parliament, he should should give his support to the motions of the Right Hon.
give his vote .to either party that should attempt to alleviate Baronet.
their condition. Sir W. SO3IERVILLE would not attempt to follow the
The Earl of DARLINGTON said he had heard thespeech of Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down in his extraordinary
the Hon. Gentleman who had spoken last night (Mr. Handley) flights of imagination ; but he should claim the indulgence of
with great pain and great regret. He had long, had the pleasure the House while he shortly stated the grounds upon whish
of knowing that Hon. Gentleman, and God forbid that he ha should vote agahnt the resolution of the Right Hon. Baronet,
should quarrel with any person on account of a difference in He thought that there were no representatives in that liinbe
political opinions. The Hon. Gentleman had read speeches more deeply interested in the issue of the present motion than
delivered by eminent statesmen ten years since, and had charged those of that portion of the United Empire of which he was
those statesmen with inconsistency. Consistency was one of one of the representatives. With them it was a question, he
the most dangerous topics that could be touched upon in that had almost said of life and death, and he should ttertfore in
House.—( Hear, hear.) There were few statesmen who had the few remarks with which he would trouble the House riot
passed through a political career of twenty years whose conduct touch upon the constitutional part of the question, which had
did not afford scope for charges of inconsistency. But why had already been treated of by gentlemen whose legal knowledge
the Honourable Gentleman confined his change to the enabled them to do so far better than he could. He would
Right Honourable Baronet, when the Noble Lord who sat then merely speak to the practical part of the question,
just below him (Lord J. Russell) had, in the year 1821, deli. which related, both to the past and present Government
viged in Devonshire so po serful an address in defence of of the Empire.—( Hear, hear.) They might with-
the agricultural interest?—( Hear, hear.) He only referred draw their confidence -from the Government for the part
to this to show how unfair it was to make such attacks.— they had acted, or in anticipation of the course they were
(Hear, hear.) He A' as greatly astonished at the course which likely to pursue ; but in the present state of parties, and the
had been pursued by the Hon. Gentleman. Only a week or two state in which parties were likely to be for some time to come,
ago he had expressed his want of confidence in the Govern- there was no Government which would not be obliged to mo-
ment; the Hon. Gentleman now retracted his words, and, dify many of their measures. Irish questions were now
without any apparent reason, declared that his confidence was made the stalking-horse of the party to which he (Sir W.
restored. 'l'ke Hon. Gentleman said there were passages in the Somerville) belonged—continued allusion was in particular
Right Hon. Baronet's (Sir R. Peel's) speech, in which he made in the course of the present and other debates to the ap-
said he was prepared to alter the sliding scale, and ha asked his propriatdou clause in the Irish Tithe Bill. If Hon. Members
Right Hon. Friend what scale he proposed. He (the Earl of on the other side of the House were aware of the dangerous
Darlington) had carefully read the speech of his Right Hon. state in which that country was at present, they would not be
Friend, and he could not &score: the least ground for that continually taunting and twitting the supporters of Ministers.
statement. One thing the Hon. Gentleman by his speech The Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire charged
last night had clearly proved. Whenever the subject of the Ministers with the exciting the hopes of the people
Corn-laws had bean brought forward, the Hers. Gentleman had without any intention of realizing those hopes. The Noble
boldly defended the agricultural interest; but the speech of the Lord should be the last to hold that language. lt was that
Hon. Gentleman weis tantamount to a declaration that when Noble Lord who first proposed the appropriation principle,
the Government and the Corn-laws were at issue, he would i When the minds of the people were raised to the utmost on the
desert the• Corn-laws.—( Hear, hear.) subject, the Noble Lord as a member of the then Govern-
Sir C. GREY thought nothing could be-more inapplicable ment, &a
elated he would extinguish tithes altogether, and in
to the speech of the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Lincoln- few days afterwards be came down and said that by extinction
shire than a charge of tergiversation and want of straightfor- of tithes he did not mean extinction of tithes. but something
wardness.—( hear.) To him it appeared as explicit as a speech 1 else. Did the Noble Lord mean after that to taunt the
could possibly be made. The debate had that night taken a ; Government with exciting the hopes and expectations of the
singular turn. Two of the speeches consisting of an attack on I people.—(Ministerial cheers) Then there was the Noble
the Hon. Member for Lincolnshire, and another, that of the I Lord's Bill for amending the Registration of Voters in Ireland,
. •Hon. Member for Bandon, of an attack on the Hon. and I which would render all government in that country impos-
Lei-ned Member for Dublin. lie had heard nothing that 1 sible. If the choice were given to him (Sir William
night in the speeches of Hon. Gentlemen opposite which had Sommerville) between the adoption of that Bill, and
anything to do with the question. He regretted exceedingly having no representative system at all in Ireland, he
to see the Right iron. Baronet in the position in which he should prefer the latter, for under it they might have some
was
,ptaced by bringing forward the present motion. He had chance of fair treatment, but under the Bill of the Noble
atrempted to reduce to a formula a part of the unwritten law Lord, the old ascendancy would be re-established ' • and, if so,-
cf Pa liament, and in doing that he had gone further than any the Noble Lord would be the first to be frightened by the
of his predecessors, leaders of an Opposition. The Right monster of his own creation, and shrink from the
Hon. So-evils
Baronet had not stopped short at representing to the
vereign that the Ministers did not possess the confidence of the The Noble Lord_ the Member for Lancashire said ar'
the hear.
House, but he had gorse a step further, and said that their con- grown in Ireland was so much worse than that imported by
tinning in office was contrary to the spirit of the Constitution. the duty imposed. The meaning of that was, that Irish corn
Did the Right Hon. Baronet consider to whom those words was to be protected and brought into this country because it was
might be said to be addressed ? If it was animputation on bad. He believed the introduction of foreign corn would have
the Ministers was it not also an imputation on that tart of the effect of doing away with the slovenly system of farming
'our to threefold Government which, having the power dismiss that at present prevailed in Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) He knew
them, retained them in office ?—(Hear, hear.) The motion that on this question, as an Irish Member, he stood alone.—
was trenching upon dangerous ground, to say the least
and ought only to have been brought forward on the most ur-ait (Hear, hear)—but if this were so, his opinions were not
adopted for the occasion.—( Hear, hear.) He, had
gent necessity. At the beginning of last session only, the Ht 0 se, received letters on the subject from friends in 'lreland,
had decided that they could not come to a vote of want inquiring if he was mad? and perhaps Hon. Gtdentnl.en,itileia;;
eidence. Since then the only measures brought for.vard etiancl-
teen the Irish franchise, t3aw, and the -ere:sent me .. laughter.)
might think, not without reason.—(Hear,
rialeg:liateir.), Nevertheless, these were his deliberate o
hear, "hind
sures—the most important ever propounded. They announceda the policy of the Right
the Noble Lord
the commencement of an adoption of the principles of free towards alr'welaayndopainotsetdie was surprised to her;
trade, and an abandonment of those principlcs of prohibition (Lord Stanley), yr. formerly so "strong a Whig, the
'which had hitherto formed the foundation of
tourr comaiereae other day plismin °himwitaelf upon bf.s success in obstructing
;few pounds to the amount of
:and financial policy, and, as a commenceme e three int-
tlhrieshfrlueng,ilslia„ti.Lni addingHagneadri,nhear
How could he have confidence
'portant a tieles of sugar, timber, and corn, had been selected.
How
have confidence in men who
The other party selected the reduction of the duty of sugar as ,ia such men ? How,;o.,:ad.
Irel cry when one or two Catholics
the ground of their opposition, and the Noble Lord the Mem- ' joined in the tt No
Hew could he have confidence
bee for Liverpool brought- forward a resolution most art- were appointed
such ig civil
principles''
r n 1 offices?i
y men actuated by such a spirit,
fally worded, so as not to bind his party to anything, in the govern-4.0 a of
believed thin
the e reasons he must htating the Howe was net then prepared to reduce the , and profeseeng
the measures proposed by
op-
-duty on sugar. The very word "prepared" insinuated that they I pose the resolution. liel
hefer they were founded in time prepared to do so, and on a 1 the Government would succeed
might be at some no distant
he. should be a loser by the
jus-
resolution so artfully worded, they obtained a majority, and I stice. As to the Corn-laws '
hal hal the boldness
'then called upon the Ministers to resign their places. He ! change ; but that would be ni itd;r,, and he should not, on
and he believed would
knew not by whose advice the Right Von. Baronet had placed 1 that account, oppose 0 Government
such a resolution on the Journals of the House, certainly not i to bring forward a measure wheel 0%,.11"
(Sir W. Somervillen)omteaut when e said
hearlerstand what
by that of the Hon. and Learned Member for Exeter. He be for the benefit of the country-4 Hear,
England understand it
agricultural
thought it would be the mast unfortunate thing that could Captain HAMILTON said he could not
occur to the Right Hon. Baronet to have a majority on this , the Hon. Gentleman
resolution, and to take office on such grounds. He believed that low prices would not affect the wages of the
the days of triumphant majorities were gone, and he was glad labourer, neither could the people of .
they w
ere so. He semuld like always to see parties so nicely The people of Englund knew the true state of the c- tee'
balanced, as to prevent any measures being passed House had decided by its late vote that the GoverMnsee , —die
without due consideration, If the Right Honourable , not possess their confidence. The people now read the DN. h d
Baronet came into office upon such a resolution, 'of Hon. Gentlemen on the Conservative aide, as well .e.c-es
as tidos,
lie would find it a more slippery resting pace than even his of Hon. Gentlemen opposite, and the real nature of the pre
sliding scale. —( Chi ers. ) I t was un '
possiule now to act upon sent discussion. could not escape them. The Noble Lord the
.
precedents of a century, or even half a century back. The in- Member for Lincolnshire had expressed his determination to vote
terests of this country were new so vast that it was impossible on that occasion with the Government, notwithstanding
to de so; and
he would ask the night Hon. Baronet if he . the deep interest which his constituents felt in the
were to bring forward in his budget anyfinancial measure j maintenance of the present Corte laws. The time, however,
affecting any of the interests of even the City of London, whe- would come when they should all appear before their consti-
then he might not unexpectedly find himself in a minority, and tuents; and for his part he should say that the sooner an clec-
the'n will this resolution recorded on the Journals of the House tion came the better.—( Hear, hear, on the Ministerial benches. )
'ow could lie hold office? The Right Hon. Baronet, if he Hon. Gentlemen opposite cheered him, but he would venture
'succeeded, would have prepared a deadly weapon, by'
one
the legitimate power of the Crown would be destroyed, and which
, to say that the result of the new elections would bring about
Minister would only subsist at the rleasere of anyan alteration in their feelings.—( Hear, hear.) With regard
insteadoftl thee
'to a repeal of the Corn-law; he did not think it could possiblt
great commercial or influ ntial bcdies of the coaritry, benefit the working classes, inasmuch as if it lowered the prich
of at the pleasure of the Crown, according to the spirit ofthe
If
carried of taxi it would also lower the amount of wages. The present
Constitution.-(Cries
would prevent the Right Honourable Baronet, if he were. to the interests of any class in the community.
take office, from takine the sense of the
people upon any im- . Mr. MUNTZ did not think that the only question before
portent measures he might bring forward. It was a source of ' the House was whether the Government had the confidence
regret to him to see the Right Hon. Baronet'sposition before
.of the House or not. There was another question,
namely,
the public so damaged as it had been by his
tbringing forward l whether Hon. Gentlemen opposite had the confidence of the
this resolution. ( Hear. ) The
Bar • speech of the • Right Hon • House. Now they certainly had not his ( Mr. 111untz's) coefi-
onet in brining forward the resolution, contrasted *
favour. dente. He acknowledged that the Ministry did not possess
ably, from the absence ofpersonality,
of; but this ke with the speeches of his , much -of public confidence— (Hear, from the Oppssition
ef the party. The• time ' but little for the boasted. unanimity benches)—but the reason of that was that they, imitated but
measures hhd arrived, tor bringing forward these free-trade too clinely the conduct of Hon. Geniis'-wen opposite.—( Hear. )
lehee them
„ forward by events '
and Ministers had been o
elc mpelled to He had heard po declaration of principle from the Right Hon.
by the inezease ie ta which tip par could control—• Baronet 't
- eepentesse , , increased .or alt
.. !ember of his partY, ther as sou mom
f. ~,..:: w..,,,,fa,tra -011-,-aro. the production 1. tar • 1 affairs
es—sad by the „ , yor cominmerme of the eoutitry whichld-induce
of misery which the thousand; hoestant. and.prolonged state him to vote with them;,and he .'
.
could not bring hunaelf to 're-
foring. -t(Crie, of ibmis,• ut L
sgeho- le ig . -
..heat.,,), _ _ p plant were: suf- I move one set of flies which had eeltleoruponhitte for the pure
if a towli w, filled. were, '
.. . ..• , . pen of bringing on mother stillzaor.troublosaaes.:(klear.) .
. . . .