The Sun.
London, England, 1841-12-21 00:00:00

authority to which I would refer is Justice Blackstone,
none higher in the world, and he lays down the law to
be this At the first establishment of parochial clergy,
the tithes of the parish were established in a four-fold
division ; but when the sees of the Bishops became
otherwise amply endowed, they were prohibited from
demanding their usual share of these tithes, and the di-
vision was into three parts only, subject to the burden of
repairing the church, and providing for its supply,"—
(Hear, hear.) Thera then, we find that the revenues
of the Church, in former times were clearly and dis-
tinctly applicable to the purposes for which Church-
rates are now demanded--(Hear, hear.) I will now
come to an authority, that of Lyndwood, Bishop of St.
David's, said by Sir J. Campbell to be the highest in
Ecclesiastical Law. What does he say is the Common
Law of the land ? He wrote in the fifteenth century,
and if he was right in his declaration of the law at that
time, I declare as a lawyer that I know of no change
which has taken place since, that in the slightest degree
affects the law of Church-rates as then laid down by him.
—(Hear.) Bishop Lyndwood said, "By the Common
Law, the fabric or repair of the church belongs to this
day to the rector, according to the appointment and
cure of the Bishop, since under him that fourth due to
the fabric of the church has been transferred to the
rector of the church ; so that he who has the fourth
ought to repair the church. So that at Common Law he
may not be compelled to do this, but certainly by
custom even, the lay parishioners are compelled to this
sort of repair, so that the lay people are compelled to
observe this laudable custom." Now, Gentlemen,
I will quote from another Churchman, Sir John Camp-
bell, or more correctly speaking, Baron Campbell, the
late Chancellor for Ireland. Sir John Campbell said,
" I might cite the epistle of Pope Gregory to Augustine
the Monk, requiring a portion of the tithes to be set
apart for the repair of churches—an act of the Wittc-
nagemot in 1014, prescribing thst a third part of the
tithe shall;be appropriated for this purpose, and various
decrees of councils, in the 12th and 13th centuries, to
the same effect. But all the books of authority, lay
and ecclesiastical, agree in the position, that the burthen
was at first laid tand continued upon the tithes." How
does Sir John Campbell account for the change ? He
says, " Probably it was very gradually shifted to the
parishioners, and their contributions to the expense were
purely voluntary."—(Loud cries of " Hear.") Here,
we show that the voluntary principle was in operation
at that tame. But he goes on and Faye, " The custom
growing, it was treated as an obligation, and enforced
by ecclesiastical censures."--(Hear, hear.) It is be-
cause I don't want the custom that I oppose the pro-
position for a Church-rate.—(Cheers.) It is big enough,
in all conscience, already.—( Hear.) It has been cal-
culated that 504,000/., more than half a million of money,
is raised throughout the country by Church-rates--
(Shame)—and, remember, Gentlemen, in stating this
amount, I am quoting from a parliamentary return.—
(Hear, hear.) It is because Ido not want the custom
to get any fatter or bigger than I stand here, to pro-
test against the sum of 17,0001. being raised in the
shape of a Church-rate at Leeds.—(Cheers.) Nnw,
Gentlemen, it will probably be expected that I should
give you some particular reasons why you ought not to
grant the Church-rate now asked for.—(Hear, hear.)
If you will refer to the authorities on the subject you
will find that Church-rates are very different things
now to what they were is former times. What were
they ? I shall perhaps best illust:ate the truth of this
position by again referring to another Churchman,
Archbishop W inchelsea—and mark, Gentlemen,.he was
an Archbishop, and therefore you will not suspect that
he would leave anything out which he thought the pa-
rishioners would be compelled to pay.—(Hear, hear,
and laughter.) In one of the constitutions which he
framed for the guidance of the clergy and the Eccle-
siastical Courts, he recites even the minutes' thing that
should be subject to a rate. Gentlemen, Ido not fled
in this " Constitution" anything said about a burial
ground. Why have I made this quotation? Certainly
not for the purpose of introducing even that which was
to make you laugh, but for the purpose of showing you
that much has been added to Chureh-rates since the
days of Archbishop Winchelsea.—( Hear, hear) Now,
then, observe your danger. You are called upon to in-
troduce a precedent by sanctioning a Church-rate for
the purchase of a burial-ground. I am not here to con-
tend that a burial-ground ought not to be provided. I
maintain that such a provision is essential, but not by
means of a Church-rate.—(Hear, hear.) Because you
must remember that a parochial burial-ground, pur-
chased by means of a rate, is a place to which Dissen-
ters could not be permitted to carry their dead.—
(Loud and repeated cries of " Hear, hear.") Tne
children of the denomination to which I belong could
not be interred at the parish church.—( Hear, hear.)
They might be rejected—nay, I may go further and
say, that if I take the canons of the Church as the
guide, it is the duty of the clergy to reject them.—
(Hear, hear.) Why do I say that the precedent would
be a dangerous one ? Let it once be established that
the parishioners, by a Church-rate, are to provide
burial-ground, and let but the Ecclesiastical Courts and
the Common Law Courts decide one other question,
and then you will, indeed, have a swingeing Church-
rate, because we are told—l won't believe it is possi-
ble until it is decided—that the minority of the parish
can bind the whole, or are to rule the majority, and im-
pose a Church-rate, which had been refused by the vote
of thousands !—(Loud cries of " No, no.") But,
Gentlemen, we have been told, both in newspapers and
other publications, that Lord Chief Justice Tindal
manifestly holds an opinion that the minority of a parish
can govern the whole with respect to Church-rates.
—(No, no.) I have read every word of what Lord
Justice Tindal did say repeatedly and attentively. I
have advised on them professionally, and I have con-
ferred with my friends upon them, and I never yet
could find anything in them beyond this simple decla-
ration, that be would give no opinion whatever on the
matter.—(Laughter.) Notwithstanding this, it had
been represented, that although he gave no opinion, he
clearly intimated that he had one at the back of his
mind—(Laughter)—which be would bring forth at the
proper time in favour of the supposition that the mi-
nority have the power to govern the majority. What
has taken place in consequence ? Why, at Braiutree
and Bradford efforts have been made to obtain a
Church rate. What has been the result ? Why,
that gentlemen of the highest reputation and character
have had distresses sent into their houses for Church-
rates, varying in amount from Bd. to 4s. 9d.--(Loud
cries of " Shame, shame.") Let it be once decided
and clearly established as a custom—and remember,
Gentlemen, customs grow—( Hear, hear)—that the
parishioners are bound to provide a burial-ground
by a compulsory Church-rate, and the next thing
will be, that the minority will govern the majority,
and, as a consequence, you may be met by a body
of Churchwardens and two parishioners, who might
nail on your backs 17,000/. for the purpose
of buying a burial-ground.—(Hear.) Now, Gentle-
men, Sir John Campbell was in Court and heard all
that Chief Justice Tindal said on the subject, and hav-
ing done so, he has given an opinion that the minority
can't bind the majority.--( Hear, hear.) Gibson, elabo-
rately defending the power of the churchwardens in
making a rate, says—" Rates for the reparation of the
church are to be made by the churchwardens, together
with the parishioners assembled, upon public notice given
in the church. And the major part of them that shall
appear shall bind the parish—(Hear, hear)—or, if
none appear, the churchwardens alone may make the
rate, because they, and not the parishioners, are to be
cited and punished in default of repairs. But the Bishop
cannot direct a commission to rate the parishioners and
appoint what each one shall pay. This must be done
by the churchwardens and parishioners, and the Spiri-
tual Court may inflict spiritual censures till they do."—
(Laughter.) Gibson does not say that the church-
wardens have a right to make the rate under any cir-
cumstances, but only in the case he has supposed,
namely, that they are the only parties who attend the
meeting called for such a purpose.—(Hear, hear.) Gen-
tlemen, I will not detain you further. I recommend
you to give a most decided vote on this subject,—
(Shouts of "We will.") Mr. Cliff has engaged to
second the amendment.—(Mr. Richardson retired
amidst loud applause.)
Councillor JOSEPH CLIFF came forward to second
the amendment proposed by Mr. Richardson. He was
an inhabitant of
one of the out-townships, and he stood
there, in their name, to protest against the imposition
nofntehwishruattiea.l
erTnhneur
we
hwas wanted for the purchase of
o would use that burial-ground?
ttheofwo parish
int e r generally
Was it for the use.of
inhabitants of the ous-the
e?
their dead Wouldin
No such thing—it was
,cacslusiitv exclusive off fair
the
st-tnonwinyst
would
should b,
se compelledheuts e faiNo,to
township of Leeds.—(cheeno the
e°edu
pr iagyh t
f,
tt hwa th the
no.) It was said that this was a parish burial ground.
It might be so in name,but in point of fact it was not so.
The out-townships of the borough had already provided
their own burial-grounds.—( Hear,
near, and shouts of
" Put the question—lts one o'clock)."
Mr. EDWARD BAINES, jun., Editor of the Leeds
Mercury, next came forward, but was received with
tremendous hooting, and shouts of " Down himdown
him," " Throw him over," " Put the question,"'" 'es
one o'clock," " Thou wants us to go away, lost tlaou ?"
He made repeated attempts to get a hearing, but every
attempt was met with renewed hooting and exclama_
tions. This was continued for some time. Mr. Baines
not being able to get a word beyond " Gentlemen."
JOSHUA BOWER, Eiq., said be always bked justice
to be done to every speaker.—(Shouts of " We want
to go to our work.") He agreed with them, that there
need not be any more speaking. Let the question be
put.—(Hear, hear,and loud cheers.)
Mr. BAINES again attempted to speak, but was again
eceived with immense hooting, and a 1 sorts of oppro-
brious exclamations. At length
The CHAIRMAN said it was now his intention to put
the amendment to tho meeting. Ho therefore wished
them to understand that the question now before them
was whether they would lay a rate for the purchase of
additional burying-grounds.—(Shouts of " No, no.")
He had no interest, no wish, to force it upon them.—
( Hear, hear.) He wished to avail himself of the op-
portunity of addressing that large and respectable

meeting, to state that something in the course of the
year must be done, or there would be a dreadful pesti-
lence in the parish. He had no doubt that those gen-
tlemen who proposed the amendment would introduce
some measure for procuring additional burying-ground,
and he should be most happy to second them.
The Chairman then put the amendment, when an
immense forest of hands appeared in support of it, and
the display was followed by loud cheering. He then
put the original motion, when, out of the assembled
thousands, we only saw one hand held up in support of
it. We have since been told by a Tory, that four
hands were held up for the original motion. If that
be any consolation, we are willing to allow him four out
of the 12 000, or rather, if both hands were held up,
the 24,000 bands that were there, particularly as one of
the four belonged to Mr. John Beckwith, reporter for
the Leeds Inlelligencer.
The CHAIRMAN then said, I have to announce to
you that the amendment is carried.—(Loud cheers.)
The vast assembly quietly dispersed at about a
quarter-past one o'clock.

SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS.

FROM THE EVENING PAPERS Or YESTERDAY.
GLOBE—Fraud or ignorance are the only
solutions the Spectator can find for our opposi-
tion to what it calls the " Wakefield-principle,"
in the somewhat alarming practical shape which
its ingenious framer has now given it! It is
charitably disposed to ascribe as much as it can
to ignorance ; but even ignorance of this saving
knowledge is itself something so deeply culpable
as to furnish no excuse for the daring impiety
of our colonial heresies. In short, there is a
small knot of persons with great talents for
scheming, and self-eulogy, who have been occu-
pied so unweariedly, for a series of years, in prais-
ing themselves and their sell-supporting systeM of
colonisation, that now, when the trial of that sys-
tem has proved that it is not self-supporting,
and when its partisans themselves, by the pen of
their Inventor-in-Chief; make a formal applica-
tion to Government to support their self-sup-
porting system by borrowing money to set it
going, on the security of its future working (a
security belied by every fact of its working in
the past)—the slightest demonstration of resist-
ance to this modest proposal transports them
with such a degree of rage that they lose the
coolness of players at these deep games!—and
throw about charges of fraud and ignorance, as
if there were no fear of awkward retorts! With-
out condescending to such retorts, and leaving '
wholly to public judgment the question on which
side anything fraudulent is likely to be found,
as regards these projects—we shall continue our
humble, but (as we see from the Spectator's
anger) not useless, efforts to dispel whatever
ignorance may exist about them amongst general
readers. The Spectator persists in affirming
that we have misrepresented the nature of
the money-borrowing operation which it is
now proposed to devolve on Government—
and to devolve on Government (be it ob-
served) for the purpose of peopling the waste
lands of new colonies. Now it is very hard if
we have misrepresented the nature of this pro-
posed loan, for we have taken the representation
of it from the plain words of Mr. Wakefield him-
self. But we have not misrepresented it; and
we defy the Spectator to show we have done so.
We have, indeed, drawn a conclusion of our own
from what is now proposed—that farther require-
ments would inevitably be pressed on the Go-
vernment, if once it takes the initiative as a
principal in these operations; and that Govern-
ment, after taking the first step, would find it
difficult or impossible to avoid taking every
future step at the cost of the mother country.
STANDARD.—The fancied divisions in the
Conservative party still serve to keep awake the
kind solicitude of the Opposition. It is a duty of
humanity to calm, when it is in our power to do
so, an anxiety so amiable and so tormenting. In
the first place, then, we beg to assure our Whig-
Radical friends that there is no greater amount
of divisions among Conservatives, than must al-
ways exist among honest men of independent
minds. Such divisions are inevitable, and they
will generally appear greater, or rather most
numerous, in proportion to the magnitude and
honesty of a party; but they are not the divi-
sions which weaken a party, or take from its
unity of character. In the second place, we
would remind our Whig-Radical friends of the
nature of our position, and of our divisions,
which render a diversity of opinion among Con-
servatives a very different thing from what it was
in the late Cabinet. First, of nature of our
divisions. The subjects of these divisions are
said to be " the Poor-laws, Ireland, and the con-
troversy about Puseyism." These, if we mis-
take not, are subjects upon which Whig-Radi-
cals are at least: as much divided as Conserva-
tives can be ~said to be—a great deal more
divided than Conservatives have ever . been.
Upon the subject of the Poor-laws we imagine
that the Radical and Chartist sections of the
opposition have rather a stronger hostility to
the new law than any of the Conservative party
have ever professed—they certainly have shown
their hostility in a more violent manner. But
whatever may have been the difference of opinion
among Conservatives upon the law in question
some years ago, and how much soever they may
still differ upon the merely abstract principle of
the law—a question of speculation, and therefore
a harmless question—we believe that as to its
practical application no difference of opinion re-
mains. We all coincide in the opinion of Sir
Robert Peel, that the law must be administered
in a more Christian manner, and look with grati-
tude and confidence to the determination of the
Premier to keep the Commissioners tightly-in j
hart d by shortening the term of their commission.
COURIER.—At the Manchester Conference,
Mr. Greg, the late Member for that town, is re-
ported to have delivered some extraordinary
fact s, if facts they may be accepted, as with un-
dou bting mind he evidently entertained them,
for his authority, a respectable foreigner, then
a resident partaking of the hospitalities of his
house, is thus described :—" As the largest
machine-maker and manufacturer in Europe,
he .has been visiting every part of the Con-
tineat ; he has built nulls in almost every part
of Europe, from Naples and Salerno in the south,
up as far as the borders of Russia upon the north ;
he has filled them with machinery; he knows the
rat e of wages, the amountand cost of production,
and, every thing connected with it; and in the
con rse of three days I derived a great
deal. of information myself; and I have no
doubt the facts are new and interesting to many
prey eat. I have also had a late opportunity of
inquiring into the state of the cotton trade in
Am, ;rica This large manufacturer and machine-
mak er is a Swiss gentleman, well known to many
upon -the platform; and is a most intelligent
man,, and one who has good opportunities of ob-
taining extensive and accurate information."
We r€ quest the attention of the working classes
to tine dainty picture of operative comforts to be
enjoy ed in Austrian factories. " One fact
is c u.rious as to the comforts of living,
and as showing the cheapness of provisions
whic.h feed the people in his A ustrian mills,
which they sell out in messes of ten each

g rown-up persons, and the price of the ten
ness es cooked together is four kreutzers a
day, 07.• about 10., little more than a penny
farthing, for which they get animal food every
day; porridge in the morning, hotch-potch
with r aeat for dinner, and soup for the evening
rneal.., They get all this for little more than
11d. a, day ; and not only do they live on this,
but lir e in comfort; so that this gentleman said
he won id not wish to live better himself than
his peo pie do." With a rate of living, as here
stated, of " little more than a penny farthing" per
day, (.).r about 71d. per week, and with hours of
work .ranging from 16 to 18 hours per day, a
fact 'which neither Mr. Greg nor his "intelli-
gent" friend by the way condescended upon, we
cease co/ wonder that Austrian and Saxon work-
men o at. of two shillings and sixpence a week
wages 'a.zeumulate fortunes, and, as the veracious
Dr. B bviring assures us, buy land and houses and
becon,:e stately proprietors. But, if the " intelli-
gent" Bwitzer speak truth, what, we ask Mr. Greg, 1
has the n telancholy fact to do with Corn-laws ?
Does be, then, does the Anti-Corn-law League,
really co ntemplate reducing English operatives
to this " hotch-potch" dogs meat dietary by the
abolition of Corn-laws and the grinding down of
wages t o the Austrian starvation standard?
Why, if bread and beef were each brought
down to one halfpenny per pound, the weekly
living of a labourer here, on his present
scale o.r consumption, and with the enjoyment
of other. custotnary adjuncts of home and colo-
nial -.!table products, would still amount
to double the Austrian sum, leaving all beverage
but splim ; water out of the question altogether.
Why, t bAtre is not a dogs' meat man of this me-
tropolis
;'who would contract to find the canine
race at 31-ICII a rate per head as these miserable
Austria;?: boors are provisioned for. We most
deeply (-Lep lore that so respectable a man as Mr.
Greg cc 'tare ssediY 1
• and made of a r other and
better suit): than 8,
fa
Manchester orator who
raised o ace on a memorable time a " demon from
the Thames," should lend himself to such outra-
geous assaults upon common sense, and retail
stories wb.:...ch, if good for anythin.., go to prove a
vast deal tap much for Anti-Cornflaiv purposes.
The Am .bassadors from the Courts of Russia,
France, Pro ssia, Austria, and Turkey, and the Consuls
of several F oreign States, met at the Council-office yes-
terday more ling, shortly after nine o'clock, and remained -
in deliherai ion several hours.