The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-11 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

110 USE OF COMMONS, Feb. 10.
TEN HOURS' BILL.
Mr. BANKES said ho did lot advocate the present Bill
for the purpose of giving any opposition to the Government.
lie was rejoiced that some members of the Government were
in favour of a modification of the present system. Although
they were not prepared to go the whole extent which the
Hon. Member for Oldham required, he was authorised to
state that those who sought for a ten hours' Bill,
would not be contented with an eleven hours' Bill, but if it
was the pleasure of the Government to pass such a measure
it would be a matter of satisfaction to them, as it was a step
in a right direction ; and with reference to e success of an
experiment it might not be unsatisfactory to have a trial
for a year or two of such a measure before the public. He
concurred in the regret expressed by the Right lion. Baronet,
that this matter had not been made a subject of private
regulation, but he could not say that he, for
one, was disappointed. But he had high authority
for saying that such a result had been expected by one of the
pt:ncipal opponent-, of the measure. He did not then sec the
lion. Gentleman in his place, but he believed him to be in
an adjoining chamber; he alluded to the Member for Dur-
ham. (At this moment Mr. Bright entered the
House, and took his seat amid considerable . laughter.)
On the 23d of May the lion. Member for Durham stated in
his place that the proper mcde of proceeding would be tor the
operatives to seek a private arrangement with the em
ployers ; and he admitted that they ought to have by
some means or another an alteration in the present sy,-
tem, which he said they would have had
had other means been taken to procure them. Now, would
the Hon. Member for Durham say that those means had
failed? lied there been even a proposal from the manufac-
turers to the operatives? The lion. Member bad been the
subject of many questions by rea:,on of the high and prominent
position
in which he had placed himself as candidate for one
of the great manufacturing cities of the empire. Amongst
other questions which were put to him as lately as the
month of December last there was this—" Do you consider
that time should be allowed for education with regard to
young persons employed in manufactories? " In answer to
this question, the Hon. Member saW—
Mr. BRIGHT—Read the precise words I used.—(Hear.)
Mr. BANKES—WeII, I will, and I ought to say, in Pa,-
liamentary form, that to prevent mistakes, I hold in ray hand
a copy of the lion. Member's speech.—(Hear.) His words
were es follows:—" Well, I am quite certain that the man
who works ten hours a day is much more likely to be edu-
cated than the one who works twelve.—(Loud cheers.) I
do not differ upon this point, but I differ on the point whe-
ther a reduction of time ought to be carried out by the Legis-
lature, or by a regulation between the masters and the ope-
ratives themselves."—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) Had he
quoted the Hon. Gentleman right?
Mr. BRIGHT—That is correct.
Mr. BANKES was then justified in asking him whether
he had made any endeavour to promote that
o t
which in the month of May last he hadstated to
only right but just ?—(Hear, hear.) Had hetieetaerveenelNlrr. te;
and December made any such
n attempts ?
o
But now, between Decemberhe and February,
of any such February, hadendeavour, hear.
he made
having been made ?
any such endeavour, or d
Ws there ever, or could there ever
bosleedf,orwisitrenchata djhoaurussot-f
labour were
have been any period more
ment, when the millse weree
d ,prat'
(ar, oy"
brcayl
any mutual snlltowtbnetween the masters and the operatives,
agree-
ment entered i
but shortened from other causes which he would not at
the present momentinquire into, but which showed,
in point of fact,
no adjustment had been made.
If it were thefac; that
that no effor i had been made for this par-
pose what chance was there that that arrangement would be
made now. There
had been time for making the experiment,
and since the lion. Member srid that it ought to have been
done, what chance he again asked remained that it would be
doae at all? The Hoe Member for Durham was
now a candidate—undoubtedly be lied every right
to be ec.efor the representation of one of 'he
largest and most; commercial cities in the country, the
city of Manchester. lie might hot have been in the douse
when a petition was presented,Esigned by 220,000 persons
residing there, and with the leave of the House he would
read the prayer of that petition. The petitioners said that
they deeply sympaalited with the feci;oly workers in that
large and important manufacturing city, many of whom were
of tender years, shit.; up ie a close room for a period in each
day that was quite incompailo'e nigh their nature, and they
added that, owing to ;he long hours of labour, these young
persons were debarred from eil means of enjoying the bene-
fits of religious or secular education ; that, in consequence of
the long hours of which the petitioners complained, the fac-
tory operatives were in a worse position than any other
artizans, by which their physical frame was deteriorated,
and if no relaxation were afforded, they would be mere
representatives of the human body, without any of
the vigour which should accompany it. They prayed
therefore that the Legislature would pass a ten hours'
Bill without further delay. These sentiments emanated from
220,000 persons, whom the lion. Member for Durham sought
to represent its Parliament. True, they had no votes, but
they were still the persons whoee opinions and feelings he
would represent. If the Hon. Member would, therefore,
wish to please his future constituents, let him vote for this
Bill, and thus render himself a more worthy canclidat(. ti
their suffrages than he was at present.---([ls ". •
and laughter.) The Hon. Member said last year that
this was a fit and proper Lieasure, which ought to be by some
means adopted. There might be persons in Manchester,

••••.111.L
Ineotna forine a
t
perhaps, mere powerful than the individenawleeot-Wlidag
were appended tb this petition, but
moment su pp „
conduct now. He had, however, to recollect •
ose that this consideration erou.ldtha .intnituewnacse
the
just
expressed opinion of ihe Hon. Member that this measure..
ought to pass ; and, as it could not pass in ,eke
Way of adrt
ment and regulation between the emnloyers arid t e operati
he (Mr. Bankes) called upon the Hon. Member :now to f I?!
the pledge which he gave,
.and 'o carry out the men sure by the
only means left open, nanoely, a legislative ena
t, wield!
(Hear, hear.) There lad been circulated a pamphle
although published two years before,
.had only been seats?
him that day. That pamphlet contained grave charges a;,a
most honourable person, and containing such charges, ,he
thought that it ought to have been circulated earlier, it at
all. It was entitled " A Report of the Central Commiitte:
of the Association of Millownersensaged in the cotton tratie..
Now, lie (Mr. Bankes) would nor allude to the person'
charges which that circular contained against this honour--
able person, but he would to one passage which he
happened to glance at, for he had had no time to examine
carefully the contents of the document. That passage stated,
" It is useless to discuss whether the present arrangement
twelve hours for five days, and nine hours on Sang-
day, is precisely the best limitation for labour; it is
the limit which Parliament has irreg. since established," *C.
' Now, the House would permit him to ask why it wag" use:
less to discuss?" Coorld there be a better occupation of they
time than to discuss wile: her that which was found a benefri
to the people to a certain
tent should not he further
ex-
tended, if any further additiena; benefit could be conferred?
Could they be better employed tin:ll extending a meow"e
which had been alreedy found good still furthera
The quotation went on, " Usage and hsebit has accommodtca
itself to this period." Why that wait raid of the slave.
trade; " usage and habit" had existed there for a long
time, but that was DO reason why that Labit And usagee
should be permitted to continue.—(Hear, hear., '"
continued certainty of this limitation, the maste" n ulev.
turer bad based Lis calculation of profitable return (I." /I,
what right had the master manufacturer to base h,'l calcot
lations ea this limitation ? Had not this been a coelslaud
subject of inquiry, of proper inquiry year after year ?
e„st
it not been constantly agitated in that House, and 1,7„„
justly agitated? Was there any reason why
master manufacturers. when the former law woe
passed, should speculate upon no further alteration
of the law in all time coming? The Honourable Meru:
ber for Montrose had been pleased to say that he had got
one besetting sin, and that was his universal advocacy ei
all reductions in taxation and retrenchments in exi)endire!.
But the Hon. Member had another besetting sin, ende
that
was his determination to look with such • intensity en the
side of a question, that lie omitted altogether to look nt
other.—(Hear, hear.) Nov, when the Hon. Member tee
Montrose supported the former Bill of 1824,
doubtless thought it the concentration of all lunetwe
wisdom—(Hear, hear, and laughter)—but he forgot Use;
these Acts limiting factory labour had been passed—passea
with complete triumph—Acts reducing the labour of those
under thirteen Years of age from 74 hours a week to 86, anel
persons above that age from 74 to 69. All these concessions
had been universally admitted, by every one but the 1100-
Member for Montrose, to be attended with the happiest suc-
cess, without any counterbalancing inconvenience to any
the parties interested. But, said the Hon. Member for Moire
trose, these persons are blind io their own interests; but le
they were ignorant it was the duty of the HI!.
.
ation was being in
member to educate and prepare theen properly. At tn.!:
time, when an extended measure of edn.
troduced into the other House of Parliament, surely some
e_
arrangement should be made by which the
rtizan in
mon with all classes in the country might be bbenefited.fited•
CO
fine
measure (as far as the factory workman was ~e
cerned) was an insult to him, for they providesa. l:.elf
rune for educational purposes, from the beneh:ls
nr-
which be would be altogether debarred. The
able Member for Durham bad admitted that tsr
man who worked ten hours had more time for the purpose!
or education than the man who worked twelve hours. Oa':
the man who worked twelve hours any time for education at
all ? He was compelled to devote twelve homers to work, and
he required two heursfor meals—where then could the tine
for education be found? The Hon. Member for Montrose
had put a hypothetical case. " You cannot," said
he, " pass an equal law for the limitation of labotirt
because the labourers are of different conditions in life:
One has a father and mother, and another is n"
burdened with either." He ( Mr. Bankes) said, gill;
them all the advantage of the same law. Ile could see
no distinction that could be safely made between the on!
labourer and the other. The House would remember 010
when this measure, was first brought before them the]
were shocked at the recital of the cruelties perpetrated in
the factories; they had heard of the physical deforraitt
which resulted from the nature of the employment. P:
(Mr. Bankes) had always heard and read those statemanw
with much pain, and with a belief that, while the menurA
turers were not guilty of the cruelties
to them, the offences themselves were greatly exaggerate.;
but neither could he shut his eyes to the consequences which
would follow the want of education. He could not be blind
b
to the physical, as well as the moral deterioration which
would result from this course ; and if Government did 11.",,
apply the remedy, to whom were they to look for it? He W7i„
of opinion that this was the fitting opportunity ra
the enactment of such a measure. If they passed the
Bill at this period it would entail no inconvenieece
on the manufacturer. The Hon. Member for Dar_h„allire
had been unable to carry into effect a mess
which he himself declared was fit and proper, and therefore
e-
it behoved the Government to interpose and rectify the
grievance. He would give his cordial assent to the eon
reading of the Bill.
Mr. MARK PtiILIPS said that the Hon. Member feafe
Durham had had a speech made at him as candidate le'
Manchester, perhaps the House would allow him as repro'
sentative :or Manchester, in esse, to say a few words for hini.
He trusted it would not be considered he did not sympe t
thiso _ e
with the workmen in factories if he did not coincide in h
opinions of the Hon. Member who had last spoken, but he
(Mr. Philips), as the representative of a vast commercial
interest, could not let his feelings
run away with his better
judgment. He thought that any interference between capital
and labour would tend to the most mischievous consequences,
for the House might depend upon it that one-tenth of the
manufacturing power of this country could not be repressed
without the workmea's wagessuffering in the same proportion.
• Why was the Government to atop short with reference to
agricultural labours? He believed the present was such 11
departure from proper legislative interference, that he could
not but augur the most serious results from the adoption of
the measures-(Hear, hear.) He did not like the propel's!
"nibbling," piece by piece, of the measure, such as that
al:uded to by the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of State
for the Home Department, to reduce the hours to eleven in-
stead of ten. If the experiment were to be mad,"
let it be made at once, upon a bold scale; e
would Much rather at once give his support to the
ten hours' measure than to such a meddling system of legoi
lation proposed by those who had not the courage to go
once to the completion of the full measure, but who stop r"'
at a sort of half-way house.—(Cheers.) He believed tbst
great ignorance existed on the part of Hon. Members Witti,,!
reference to the subject of factory labour. It was not '
him to catechise Hon. Members on the subject; if he did
he might, in all probability, be told " that he had better
mind his own business, and give them credit foe
the knowledge they possessed upon subjects which
even the most experienced maeufacturers and inhabitant
of the district were unable to obtain." It was quite true that
the measures which had been passed for the purpose of
stricting labour in some factories had been attended wit
some success ; but he begged most earnestly to protest again°
the arguments urged by the Right Hon. Baronet the Secra-
tary of State for the Home Department, that because pare"-
success had attended the measures passed for the protection
of women and children, that therefore future legislation for
adults should be equally successful. With those views, seeing
nothing but mischief attendant upon the passing of thee-
measures, and not at all underrating the comforts of the
working classes, or being one whit less desirous than the Hoe.
Gentleman who had last addressed the House to see educe"
tion afforded to the people, still he was obliged to weigh
carefully both sides of the question, and he had come to the
conclusion that nothing but mischief woold result from the
interference by the Legislature in the large manufacturing
districts o the country.
Lord JOHN MANNERS was quite surprised to hear the
Hon. Member for Montrose say that the present measure
was advocated upon party grounds. He did not think such
a charge ought to have been made. The sligh:est
reflection upon the history of the question would
suffice to show that such a charge was totally
unfounded. No one could look upon the Past
history of the question without seeing that never was al
question of great national polity supported upon such .1
interested and honourable grounds, and carried on in such !
manner as to be in every way worthy of the great eauj:
itself.—(Cheers.) The great cause had been going on for
years, though warrior after wateior had fallen in the i,'"
glorious struggle. Sir Robert Peel first advocated
the question, died, and left the care to the
care of Sir J. Hobhouse; he carried it in for tome time, until
it was taken up by Mr. Saddler. Teat great advocate of the
cause died, and left the conduct of it to Mr. Oastler; he, in
his turn, gave place to Lord Ashley, who carried on the War
to the very verge of victory, when circumstances oci-
curred which prevented his proceeding further with
the measure, and he resigned his glorious charge to
the Honourable Member for Oldham (Mr. Fielders).
Still they found the same resolute, indomitable persever-
ance in the great cause. And row, in this year, 1847, they
found the great question again brought forward, and bold!)
advocated by its iedeeetigable supporter, the Hon. Member
for Oldham (Mr. Fielden).—(Cheers.) Well did Lord Ashley
say in that House, and truly, "that it was possible, nay,
probable, that the efforts of her Majesty's Ministers would be
successful, and that they would carry their motion, but
for how long? If the Government would wish their
victory to be complete, they must extinguish those senti-
ments which had given rite to his." In that sentiment
was to be found the feeling which nurtured and fed the in-
domitable courage o: the supporters of this measure.—
(Cheers.) And so long as men had eyes to weep, souls to
pray, hearts to feel, voices to raise, and hands to lift up, so
long would the struggle be continued, until the arduous
contest was consummated by the glory of a triumphant victory.
The Right Hon. Baronet, the Secretary of State for the
Home Department, had used what he called "old arguments,'
those arguments were year by year becoming weaker and
weaker, and he hoped those arguments, the fallacy of which
had been so long exploded, would be consigned at once to
the tomb of r'l the Capulets."--(Cheers.) The present Was
the most favourable time for the passing of this law, in eon-
sequence of the depressed state of trade in the manufacturing
districts and the high prices of corn. The mills
were now working short time. When, however the current
set in the other way, if this measure were passed, then
stability and security would be the result, instead of a wild,
insane, and reckless re-action, which had before been the
bane of the prosperity of our manufacturing districts.--
(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord then wert on to
_quote
from the circular of Meesrs. Parkissoa and Taylor. The"
gentlemen said;—" Stocks are tio'ly accumulating, and must
before long press hen ly upon the market. Yet the spinner*
and manufacturers with reckless infatuation, in the face of in-
creasing stocks, of advanced prices in the raw material, and
of a declining demand fur yarns and goods, have for the
greater part reverted to full time, and production within the
last fortnight has resumed almost its former vigour." This
state of things would no doubt be followed by a serious de-
pression. What was the ellect of these rapid alternations ?
o
prosperity and depression in the condition of the workman
—during one week he had nothing to do, and the rext week
he was torn and racked by fatigue. In such a state, was it
possible for the working man to contract habits of sobiiety
or forethought, or to perform his duty to his count*:
and the society in which be moved ?—(Loud cheers.)
It had been see" by the opponents of this measure, that se
much wok could not be done in twelve hours as in tin ; even
if it were so, the greatp ractical result would be, that if this
Bill were passed it would spread a larger amount of labour
over the working classes, zed thereby equalise the amount
to be performed. It had also been said that it Was
wrong to interfere in manufactuting speculations. Nothing
could be a more decisive refutation of that argument than
the declared official value of the exports of the country, as
given in a work recently pnblieliecl by Mr AlCulloch, from
•
id ,e14,57C1., but in the year 1842 the declared value
of the cotton exported was 21,770,127/. This
would at once dispose of the argument of the mischief 0