The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-13 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF LORDS, Feb. 12.
Their Lordships met at the usual huur.
Earl FITZ WILLIAM gave notice that, on Monday.
';',e should present a petition from the Rev. A. Jordan, of
Gloucester, praeing that an addition might be made to
the number of Bishops. The Noble Earl presented a
Prtitieu from a place in the West Riding of Yorkshire,
PtaYleg for the repeal of the Poor Removal Act.
MESSAGE FROM TUE COMMONS.
, Messengers from the Commons brought up the Desti-
tute Persons (Ireland) Bill, and the Brewing from Sugar
which were read a first time.
LAW OF SETTLEMENT.
Lord WALSINGHAM. presented a petition from a
b°ard of guardians in Norfolk against the law of settle-
ment,
passed last session.
IRISH DISTRESS.
meting
Lord MONTEAGLE presentee. a petition from a
Zting of ratepayers ea the county of Westmeath, over
delch the high sheriff presided, representing the great
Llesetipseeisting in that country. and praying their
to adopt speedy and effective measures for
their relief.
CLAN WELLIN AND SHANID (IRELAND).
t Lord MONTEAGLE said he now rose to move, ac-
e°ding to notice, for copies of applications made to the
, I'd-Lieutenant of Ireland, on behalf of residents in the
°fireflies of Clunwellin and Shanid, praying for u division
of those baronies, for the purpose of holding special
sessions, under the 9th and 10th Vice, c. 107. He
the
he would nut be understood as complaining of
the Course which hail been adopted un this subject by
Government, who had no doubt pursued the
course Irish
this
urse particular instance which appeared to them
to he right; and all that he meant now to do was to
move for certain papers which might form the basis of
eerteiu observations which he thought were required in
afterwards bringing the subject before their Lordships.
Ile_hegged to remind tl,eir Lordships, that under the
Labour-rate Act of last session, there was a power re-
served to the Government, by the 18th clause, to
enable them, if they thought it necessary, to
ride the parishes which appeared at present to be
uttop large- He said that clause had been specially in-
troduced into the Bill 'or this purpose, when it was
under debate in the other House of Parliament. It was
then felt that some of tee baronies in Iretand, like the
ridings of this country, were become so large that it was
next to impossible to administer the Labour-rate
Act, and that was the special reason for introducing
the clause to which he had alluded. In two cases ap-
plieee
---en had been made to the Lord-Lieutenant that
this clause might be put into effect, but the Irish Go-
vernment had thought fit to re:use these applications.
lie would only remark further his hope that whatever sys-
tem their Lordship* might rearwards adopt, they would
take care what baronies and parishes they united together.
From these considerations he had come to time conclu-
*ion, that time greater the distress the greater would be
the difficulty of ascertaining correctly how the law was
administered. At present the Labour nitre Act was in-
operative. If they extended their electoral divisions
they would subject themselves to all sorts of fraudulent
applioations, arid they wuuld be called on to decide upon
works of consideration, but of which they had no per-
Donal knowledge. The consequence of this, as was
already shown, was, that in the larger districts they were
but imperfectly done, while in smaller districts they
were well executed. This was a most important subject
for their consideration. When the Poor-law for Ireland
was passed a Noble Lord who was not then in
his place, introduced a clause. The object of the
Noble Lord's clause was to give the possessors
of property in Ireland as much of the management of
their estates as possible, and to make it the interest of
the landlord to look after that of his tenantry. This
would effect a most desirable object, and where
it was carried out there was a decrease in
the pauper population, while in those where
the dirisions were large there was an augmentation of
the pauper population as well as an increase in the poor-
Fates. The subject had been tried for several years, and
was brought under the consideration of a Committee of
their
.Lordships' House, and after the most mature deli-
beration, the principle for which he contended was agreed
to. With respect to interfering with the privileges of
In(' other House in the discussion that might arise, he
did not think it should operate. Ile would conclude by
'moving that the papers to which he referred should be
Produced.—The motion was agreed to.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE was glad that the
teble Lord disdained making any imputation to her
Majesty's Government, but even if he had dune so, he
(Marquis of Lansdowne) would not object to the pro-
Illation of the paper. However, the Noble Lord had
candidly avowed that he made no such imputation. With
regard to the other points referred to by the Noble Lord,
such as the apportioning of the rates, and the dividing
the districts over which they were to be levied,
.tlo e
the s i 0 n s
he thought that, when the Bills with which these
11t
were mixed up were before their Lordships,
that would be the best time to discuss them. In addition
t
papers moved for by the Noble Lord, he would
suggest that the answer of the Lord-Lieutenant to the
application, and all the correspondence that had taken
1:484° on the subject of the baronies, should be also laid
on the table.
Lord BROUGHAM concurred with the observations
that had been made, with regard to the propriety of re-
taining what was called the Duke of Wellington's
clause. With regard to abstaining from discussion on
these
points now, he thought it was most absurd. They
should not do so, from any affected regard to keeping
Inviolate the privileges of the other (louse. The reason
why he was of this opinion, with regard to the points
In question, was because tee rating principle was of the
greatest importance, and gave the distinctive feature to
the Bill. There ,was a minute system of inquiry-
adopted in Scotland before any relief was extended,
and
.this had a good effect; but of the twenty-three
questions proposed to the applicant, there was one to
which he objected—namely, the 17th, which inquired to
what place of worship the applicant ter relief belonged.
Ile (Lerd Brougham) had known this to operate most
injuriously, for Catholics had (Atli been refused relief
after the answers to this query. He objected to all such
questions, for churches and sects, were all very well in
their place, but they had nothing to do with questions
involving the dispensation of charity. They could
dress their dinners on Saturday, but it did not matter
whether they were dressed on Sunday or Saturday, but
it did matter very materially whether this facility were
allowed for Sunday or not. He had his information
from a most respectable person, that a physician who
Was called in to the assistance of a person
who was dangerously ill, was unable to travel
without the payment of an extra price. In America he
knew that among some of the most religious people in
the world—he meant the Pilgrim Fathers, who formed
a large and important body in the north and west of
America this convenience was not denied. In Scotland
too, which is distinguished for its high religious feeling,
he knew that in many places it was the custom to keep
the shops open in order to supply those necessaries
which were absolutely requisite, and he thought that
it would be much wiser to adopt this principle on rail-
Ways. He Vtought that these persons were the great
cause of the violation of the sabbath. No man telt
more deeply than he did the necessity for rest from work
on the sabbath, but he believed that no other persons
Were such great violators of the eabbath as those, who
by their conduct contrived to render the sabbath uta
popular.
Earl FITZ WILLIAM thought that the most impor-
tant consferat noes to be considered on this, was not the
travelling of a physician, but that the business should so
managed as nut to do away with the confidence which
was felt by the ro rietors of landed property, he meant
the b • Pt
su stunned ended proprietors, in the right ad-
ministering of the rates. It was of the utmost import-
ance that there should be a confidence created between
the town and the rural electoral districts. They ought
to Consider the two as one. He was sure that nothing
towns be done than to induce the inhabitants of the
"Its to feel that the rates levied for the relief of the
Poor were properly administered in the ruraldistrictseand
that the inhabitants of the rural districts should feel
th&t the rates levied were properly managed in the towns.
Lie said the reasonableness of that would appear
'row a case of the fallowing kind:—lf they suffered a
Poor but populous town—populous, he meant, in paupers
--to have a rural district adjoining—a district which he
Would call well managed, where the rate for the relief
of the poor was low—the effect which an act like that,
supposed should have, would be to release the rural dis-
trict from contributing to the relief of the poor of the
to wn ; and again to impose on the town entirely the re-
lies of their own paupers, which would effectually take
"ay all the interest that the country would have in the
relief Of the town poor, as well as the interest which the
'4-)"o might have otherwise expected to have
In the poor assessmtnt of the country, because such dis-
trict would be entirely interested in the relief of their
own poor. That was his urgent reason for saying that
the district allotted in a system of poor assessment
oughtit out to be narrow or confined. He said he had
heard
with pleasure the remarksi of his Noble Friend,
the L .rd President of thee°
u c
downe), but he would have heardne (t
him"e Marquis with still Lees-
greater
satisfaction, if he had expressed l
definitely on this, that their
thistmrdshipt7sewolttu'illetlirlillul_eilao'll:Nailtltm
th measure when it came up from e o
Parliament, whatever might be the form in which House °.f
it
came betore their Lordships—that they would deal with
it freely end fully as they might think should be neces-
sary.--(Hair. hear.)
Lord MONTEAGLE begged to add the words sug-
gested by his Noble Friend to his motion.
The motion was then agreed to.
The Marquis of WESTMEATH said, it gave him
great pleasure to confirm the views anopted and advo-
cated by his Noble Friend, es to the injustice cad evil
"f° It arising from ill-assorted divisions of the bar:. nies.
110. Marquis of LANSDOWNE begged to move that
an humble aderesste heuld le pteeente d to her Majesty,
P' e) log that she would graciously order to be laid en
their Lordship's table a copy of the letter from the Lord
Lieutenant of Ireland to the Home Secretary, on the
distress of Ireland.
Lord BROUGHAM said he would postpone the
!lwtion, of which he had given notice for Monday, till
Thursday next, that nothing might interfere with the
',ecoted reading of the Destitute Persons (Ireland) Bill.
As he had risen, he might take leave to say, in refer-
ence to the sub ect under notice for Monday, that the
evil arising from the influx of Irish paupers into Liver-
Prn an immigration oeol hudctually increased. On Sunday last there had
of 2,100 persons, and the day ful•
"wine as many as 2,200 had landed from Ireland.
BISHOPRIC OF ENGLAND AND W ALES.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE begged to lay
Copies_ of eotnmissious made by her Majesty's Govern-
r_ent, as well as a correspondence on the subject, for an
inlquiry into the state of bishoprics in England and Wales.
Noble Marquis begged else to call the attention
I;,the House to a matter of a personal nature, and which
er,atag t a some members of the Church of Ei;gland. He
t.m :he I),,tri ant C:apier Munceeeter. Cer
tai„ lutputations had been male by the Noble Lord op-
"lite, which were calculated to be detrimental to the