The Sun.
London, England, 1812-02-28 00:00:00

*lt j 0

FRIDAY; FEDRUARi 28, 1812.

their gounds, and to re-build their habitations;
but-the moment that thousands of their fellow sub-
je&s were suffering, 'under the extreme of want, he
could not but' t•bink they were the preferable objeds
of individull benevolence. What Government, ac-
cording to its own system, was to do with such mi-
serable and squalid wretches, under such circum-
stances, he, was at a loss to know. They could not
commit a whole county to their own jails, neither
could they fling up thousands in their fields !
.To
pass sua a Bill as that now before the House, would
be adding injustice to injury; it would even tend to
increase the difficulties of conviction, and so judging
and feeling of the measure, it should have his op-
position.

- The question being piit ;
Lord HOLLAND rose, and expressed his turpriSe,
that after what had fallen from his Noble Friend,
the gill should be suffered to go to a question, with-
out another word being offered in its defence. Af-
ter the speech of his Noble Friend, which was
fraught with an eloquence not very usual in first
speeches, he
.felt at a loss to offer additional objec-
tions to the measure. He was 'placed, howevet; in
a situation of some delicacy with respeet to the
measure, `as he was the first who called the atten-
tion:ot .the House to the topic.- In a general view
of the 6uhje&, he courd not help expressing his sur-
prise that Ministers'could recommen7l the adoption
of such a measure as the present, as the House and
the 'country were now placed in a very different si-
tuaCon from that in which they stood when he
put the questions upon the subje&. The rejeaion
of the Bill, he thought, would not be attended
With such dangerous consequences 3s would arise
from its adoption ; but even its rejection would not
be oeattend.d with ill effeas. That the. present
„Ministers should.recommend a foolish measure did
not sUrpi ise bur t hat they should recommend the
adeptton 'of such a measure as that now before the
House, certainly excited that feeling—a-measure, the
very apprehension of Which had produced some of
those scenes which they had additionally to deplore.
The principle of the. measure was one to which
he was most aciveise but Noble Loids oppo-
site did not, seem sufficiently to consider the dif-
ference between acting from principle, and acing
front theory and speculation ; and this want of cis •

elimination actuated their language in debate; It
would be found that the Bill, instead ofdimlnishing,
would increase the difficulty of dete6tinn. In le-
gislating upon such subjects, he was decidedly of
opinion they should consider the degree of injury
done to the community at large. With the Noble
Lords he was equally aware of the heinous and dan-
gerous nature of the offences in question, but it did
not necessarily follow that from these premises he
should draw the same 'conclusion. The fad Was,
that the only difficulty in the preseht. state of the
riots at Nottingham consisted in the difficulty of de-
t'e.dion, and it Wll3 all ulterior question whether the
existing law was sufficient for adequate punishment.
Paesproviiog of the.. -Bill Would,
crease the difficulties of dete&iou, but instead of ex-

tending the penal code with a view to remedy the
evil, be thought that it would be preferable to insti-
tute a sort of civil process in a sounmaty way, before a
Justice of the Pace, authorising the recovery of the
value of the fradte, throwing the onus probandi on
the person who- had been disturbecL He also
thought that a judicious offer of reward to. those
who should give inforMation, (but without drag-
ging them into,a Court of Justice against their com-
panions), would certainly be attended'with good ef-
feels. Above all, he ,was advetse to entertaining
such a measure, without previous inquiry into. the
real nature and causes of the disturbances; nor could
its temporary duration reconcile him to the adoption
of the measure. He would therefore move, as an
amendment, that instead of "Now," " the Bill be
read-a second time this day three months.
The LORD CSIANCELLOR quitted the Woolsack,
and argued briefly, but ably, in defence of the Bill.
Ile pressed to the recolleolion of their- Lordships,
that the Bill was brought forward with a View to

prevention, to increase The punishmeiu of great and
heinous offences, demonstrating themselves in a&s
of violence arid outrage. With respeEt to the wis=
dom and policy of the measure, a leading considera-
tion should be, that it was calculated for the private
benefit even of those individuals-who were the ob-
jects of it. 'After noticing some previous interposi-
tions of the Legislature, on Occasions somewhat si•
rnilar, he proceeded pointedly to observe, that the
present was a peculiar species of offence, carried on
for fifteen months without almost the possibility of
detection, and on a species of plan and system al-
most bidding defiance to the law. Was not the
preamble of the, Bill borne out by such a considera-
tion ? The object of the Bill was more one of pre-
vention than of the punishment of crimes, and
which should be the first object of all relevant legis-
lation. With respect to the Noble Baton's idea of
a civil process, he had, first, to observe, that it wa;
the positive duty of the subject to give information
to a Ma4istrate of any breach of the law ; with re-
s,4.-!Ct to oompensation in the wily of damages, it
could have little or no application, as the frames
were most frequently :he property of the wealthy
manulaettuer, though in the immediate possession
of a person of lower rank. Upon the whole he did
not:consider it a very just or a very pra&icable mode
of proceeding; The Bill being best calculated to
meet its peculiar objects, he should earnestly recom-
mend its adoption to the House.
Lord HOLLAND briefly explained.
Th...t Earl of LAUDERDALE contended loudly
agaiost the adoption of the measure, 'made a variety
of observations its support of what fell from the
Lotds at . his side of the House, and particularly
argued the propriety of instituting previous in-
quiry.
The E trl of.HAßaowaYargned in support of the
Bill, and vindicated the condoct of Ministers an all
the relevasat topics. He particularly deprecated the

[PRICE SIXPENCE HALFPENNY.

idea of not adopting a y Parliamentary measure oa
the occasion; until such an inquiry as that urged by
the
.NO-r)le Lords opposite, should be instituted : a
proceeding Which would tend to defer the interfer-
ence of Parliainent; ad Grcecas Calendas ! •

Earl GROSiENOR, in expressing his hostility to
the measure, winch he did at some length, 6tate4
his opinion, that should the Bill, unfortunately pass
into a la* it would, instead of diminishing, extend
the mischief to those parts of the 'country Where it
was already beginning to appear: Speaking of the
effects of the Orders in' Council, he advertt.d to
what he characterised as the destructive system of
licenses, Which he regarded as measures- of very in
pilaus tendency. -
Lord GRENVILLE veherhently opposed -the • Bill,
which he censured, as inflicting the Severest punish,
(tent, without defining the 'nature of the crime
it professed to prevent ; and concluded by mov-
ing, that the discussion be adjourned for three
Keeps.

The Earl of LIVERPOOL explained.
Lords Grenville, Grey, and Lauderdale, re-
urged their former objections to the Bill.; and the
latter moved that the debate be adjutitned to Mon-
day next.
A division took pike, when Lord Lauderdale's
amendment was lost by a majority of 13; the num-
bers being, for it, 17 against it, 32.
The Mil was then read a second time.

Lord LAUDERDALR moved) that tt:e Judges be
desired-to attend the Committee on the 13111 ; but
this motion wes negatived without ti division ; and
the committal of the Bill was ordered for Monday
next.—Adjourned;

HOVE OF COMMON&

THURSIAY, FEB. 27.

DRURY-LANE THEATRU.

Mr: WHITUREAD brought up the Report of the
Committee On the Drury-lane Theatre Bill. 'ri.e
amendments were agreed to, and the Btll was on
dered to be engrossed.
The Court of Chancery Clerks' Bill -*as read a
second time, and ordered to be 'committed.

A person from .the West India Dock Company
presented the usual accounts of Ow Company, which
were ordered to be laid on the table.
CLAIMS OF M.IMCHANTS TRADING TO AM E-