The Sun.
London, England, 1847-01-26 00:00:00

SUGAR. AND MOLASSES.

The Earl of STRADBROKE presented a petition
From the brewers of Bury St. Edmund's in favour of
the measure for the admission of sugar and molasses
into breweries.

'IRELAND.
Lord MONTEAGLE presented a petition signed by
line Peers of Ireland, praying their Lordships to
ako into consideration the state of Ireland.

CORN•LAWS AND NAVIGATION SUSPENSION

BILLS.
The Earl of CLARENDON moved the second reading
of the Corn-laws and Navigation Suspension Bills. The
Noble Lord entered into a brief statement of the causes

which led her Majesty's Government to introduce these

measures. Great distress prevailed throughout the
world, and the prices everywhere were so much
on an equality, that the throwing off the
4s. duty which remained on the importation of foreign
corn was a measure which the circumstances of the ge-
neral famine, and the great emergency which had arisen
in Ireland, rendered necessary. He deprecated the idea
that the duty would go into the pockets of the dealers
in corn ; but, even allowing that some portion
of it did go in that manner, it did not furnish a
sufficient reason why they should not try to alleviate
the distress by endeavouring to enlarge the supplies.
With respect to the navigation laws, he would trouble
their Lordships with a few observations. Vessels arrived
with a large quantity of grain at Marseilles. The
Americans were taking up all the ships they
could procure, and the consequence was the
freight was considerably affected. They did not
apprehend any great advantage from the removal
of these laws, but they would have the satisfaction of
thinking that they had done all in their power to miti-
gate the evils that at present existed.
Lord BROUGHAM would not, under the circum-
stances, make further objection.
The Marquis of SALISBURY agreed with the Noble
Lbrd opposite.
The Earl of MOUNTCASHEL said, as these mea-
sures were not to be permanent, he should decidedly give
them his support.
The Bills then went through Committee, and were read
a third time'and passed.
STATE OF IRELAND.

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said be now rose
for the purpose of submitting to their Lordships the
motion of which he bad given notice on a former occa-
sion, audin doing so he thought he should be wanting
in respect both for their Lordships and of consideration
for the unfortunate country itself, if he were not
to lay before their Lordships a full statement of
the facts of the case. The Noble Lord then proceeded
to comment upon the magnitude of the calamity which
had befallen Ireland, and said ho should read to their

Lordships a calculation which would show the immense
loss sustained this year in Ireland. Now, taking the
valuation of each acre of potatoes at 101., the total loss
shown to have been sustained in Ireland by the
late visitation amounted to 11,350,0001., while it was
shown with equal clearness in the oat crop, the loss
amounted to 4,660,000/., making a total deficit in the
ordinary supply of food to the amount of about 16,000,000/.
sterling. The conduct of the
`and
of Ireland had
formed the subject of varied and strong opinions, but
although exceptions might be taken to some, yet, within
the last 10 years, there were others who had left no means
untried to ameliorate the condition of the country.
Fault had been found with them for allowing the popu-
lation to be dependent upon such an uncertain and low
description of food as potatoes ; but he thought this was
not the most opportune time to discuss that question.
It was as little appropriate as finding fault after a
calamitous fire with the sufferers, because their
building was not erected with marble or Portland stone.
If they had not been able by their own effort to ward
off so great a calamity, it was equally true that no
Government could prevent it. In considering this, the
nature of this question ought never to be
forgotten, that it was not a question of
money, but one of food—food for a nation,
which, whatever system might be adopted for
its distribution, could never h..ve been created by any
Government, yet that was just the existing necessity.
Were it a question of money, he was prepared to say
that there was no sum of money which the Government
would not feel it their duty to propose to Parliament to
give for the extinction—if by such means it could be
extinguished--of so great an evil. But if the Govern-
ment had applied 10,000,0001. to such a purpose, would
it have been adequate? If ten millions of money had
been spent in the way proposed by those who held this
argument, the effect would have been, that, whatever
might have been the price of corn at the time, it would
have risen, until it would have been found that, not
10,000,0001., but 20,000,0001., and next, not 20,000,000/.
but 40,000,0001, would be necessary ; because, the mo-
ment the action of the Government was felt in the
markets of this country, or of Europe gene-
rally, they would come into the market
known to be the most powerful purchasers, and
the effect of it would be, that no other pur-
chasers would be able to contend against them. In fact,
Government was the worst agriculturist and the
worst merchant and therefore increased obstacles
st;clan emsTgenZy. flan lv oule Lord arcr iYe
would refer their Lordships shortly to the
measures which had been adopted by the Government
at the beginning of last year, before speaking of mea-
sures which w ere now to be proposed to mitigate the
present evil. The Government at that time, when the
Laboar-rate Act was passed, did not anticipate so great
a calamity as that which had fallen upon Ireland, and
therefore the measures they had proposed were merely
temporary, hoping they might have been able thereby to
bridge over the difficulty into another year. The prin-
ciple of that Act was to unite profitable employment
and poor relief, an object which was not by any means
easy to be obtained. It was contemplated at that time
to employ the poor only on work, which would prove to
be permanently useful, and this was effected to a cer-
tain extent, and so far the result was beneficial. But
a panic was stirred in the popular mind, fears and
dread of the impending calamity grew more pressing,
and from that time the beneficial employment of the
people failed. The panic that resulted when the extent
of the distress became fully known was such that the,
people were reduced to a state of recklessness and de-
spair. Some idea of the extent of the machinery em-
ployed in ad ministering relief may be formed from the
following sta,tement :—There were employed in carry-
ing out the provisions of the Labour-rate Act, 385
engineers arid surveyors, 2,832 cheque-clerks, 6,894
overseers, 132^ assistant-clerks, and 495 pay-clerks, making
between eights and nine thousand individuals. He would
ask them if, • shit such an immense number of persons,
it was possible to exclude a great amount of abuse
from • the operation of that law ?—(llear, hear).
With respect to the Board of Works itself, he
thought they should speak with the greatest respect,
as he believed they had given the most undoubted proof
of their efficie icy. This much, however, could not be
said of those whom they had occasion to employ ; but
the emergency which arose put it out of their power to
act otherwise. The effect of these operations was to
create a bounty' upon indolence—a means of enabling
the idle populr stion to take advantage of the relief in-
tended for the poor. By thus offering a premium upon
idleness the working classes were taken from their
habitual pursuits ; thus were the very worst passions
called forth and stimulated to-the hilliest activity.
" Et dolus insidheque et amor aceleratus habendi."

To a fearful ex rent were those sources of evil augmented.
Many were th ere amongst the people of Ireland who
were not expos eel to the degree of want which had been
somewhat incolAsiderately predicated of the whole popu-
lation ; those n ten quitted their own possessions for the
purpose and wi th the intention of getting employment
from the State i n a manner neither advantageous to them-
selves nor the c ountry. He had now briefly stated what
were the vices of the system, and the motives which
influenced Gowernment in advising those measur:‘,l
He did not feel s-arpris,,d that applications were made
that the Govei aliment advarees should be applied for
private purpos. es. They had concurred in the funds
being applied in that manner, and he was therefore
gratified to say that a very great amount of relief
had been givt in by Mr. Labotichere"s letter, which
act he trusted would be legalised by their Lordships.
There were 950 relief committees established over the
country, many of which had to some extent received
relief from the Government. Much had been said about
the Government; vessels, in reference to which he wished
to observe that the Admiralty could not interfere with the
course of foreign trade, but with regard to the di,tribution
of food, their efforts had been attended with the greatest
success. There had been 40 of her Majesty's vessels
employed in this manner, and before a week elapsed
there would be five more.
Lord MOUN'TCASHEL—WiII the Noble Lord have
the goodness to state the amount of food which has been
distributed in Ireland?
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE—The Noble Lord
must see that hits question was not relevant to the state-
ment he was Chen making, but he would refer to that
oa another occasion. The amount of tonnage of the
vessels thus employed was 28,232 tuns, and the
steam-vessels employed were 8,373 horse•power. He
had also to static, though the details might appear insig-
nificant, that tbere had been no means omitted to meet
the evil, and there had been every endeavour made
to establish soup-kitchens, and means had been placed
for that purpose at the command of her Ma-
jesty's officers.—(Hear, hear.) All that had been done,
and it formed a great deal beyond what could reasonably
have been expected; and, having now gone through all
that had been done, he would proceed to state what they
looked to for the future. To continue on tho present
extended scale the whole of the works that bad been
commenced in Ireland, aid to add to their number the
works that had been projeytect in that_ country,
woulduntr be
' would be
enot only impracticable ant`unwise, b
at-
tended with the most ruinfflis consequences. To adopt
such a course would be at once to deter the people
from pursuing their usual work, and to teach theliem.
veto
depend upon the Govtrnment fur support. He bed
that those who were most competent to cultivate the soil
would no longer cultivate it, but would
rgnregatltyheprerfeecrentot
receive the Government dole.
operations of the Board of Works Dtraeusakti-Wmocrckeshia.d
Thatbeen ;
resorted to most properly, and wit neat sac
led to the advantage of getting more work done, but,
even with all its benefits, it was not free from
some drawbacks; it was not unattended with
some disadvantages • and the best workmen
were mouopolised by the system adopted by

the Government, to the dettime,:t of private em-
ployers, and consequently, no tLytbt, gee t evils were
generated from di, eri that channel—
cultivation of the land iron) ehith alone they could
expect to derive permanent improvement. The individual
employer or proprietor wtis the one most interested,
the one best calculated to employ labour most bene-
ficially in the country. Ile would now call attention to
the plan of Gover.aneat. Ile alluded to the
loan at 31 prr cent. for twenty-two years
to the proprietors of land in Ireland, and they
were also to be empow,,r,tl, iF they did not wish to
pay the prineiral, to ply b.r it sis, and half per cent.
or he would be enabled to pay it in any way most conve-
nient to themselves, and by dint means relieve themselves'

at a trifling cost. It wus proposed to have extensive
drainage, but it was oat intended to interfere
with priva►e speculation in these works, for there
were a great many eases in which private individuals
would be more cifieieet in carrying out these works.
It was proposed that where it was essential to the proper
carrying out of certain works a power should be given
to compel other proprietors, who, either through care-
lessness or other causes, refused to co-operate or to
bear their fair share of the incidental cost, to be assessed
for the joint expenses. The re salt of those measures, in
his opinion, would be that not one proprietor
in Ireland but would be in a condition,
if he so chose, to employ a vast amount
of labour in a manner profitable to both himself
and the labourer, and he did not think so ill of the
landed proprietary of Ireland as to imagine that, with
these facilities, few indeed but would avail themselves
of them immediately, or, at all events, within a very
short time, and thus, from ores end of 'the country
to the other, give employment to the mass of la-
bour, for which, in the ordinary modes, there was
no call. This measure was one of the most important
which it could fall to the lot of her Majesty's Govern-
ment to bring before their Lordships, and it was one
which had long cceunied his deep and earnest
attention. Pending the beneficial results; to be
anticipated from these measures, there must ensue
much scarcity, and even famine, among those who
were infirm and without employment, and the
Government proposed that food should be distributed
amongst such persons, but it was determined that no
person was to receive mho', except those who could not
possibly be relieved in the workhouse, and in aiding
those persons the establishment of soup kitchens, in the
most destitute districts, was considered as the
most effectual. That relief it was supposed might be
paid for by a rate—half to levied on the place itself,
and the other half to be supplied by Government. It
was to be a temporary ineri:ure, And only to cover the
intermediate passage from one kind of labour to the
other, which would be sure to be attended with more
or less misery anti destitutien, until all those works
became connected with individual enterprise.—(Bear.)
It was also intended to furnish loans of another de-
scription. Serious apprehensions were entertained
with respect to the ensdrig harvest, and from autho-
rities which he had before him, he was sorry to say those
fears appeared but too well founded. This arose partly
from an unaccountable indisposition on the part of the
labourers to leave the public works for the farm, and
partly from the inabih•tj of the smalllandholders to buy
seed. Now the Government T,roposed to advance loans
to the latter, at the rate of 3 per cent., to be secured
upon the crop, and repaid at the end of the present
year. The Noble Marquis then read extracts from a
letter in support of the assertion as to the danger to be
apprehended if immediate and effective means be not
taken to aid in the spring planting; and said, the next
subject to which he had to call their Lordships' atten-
tion was, the reclamation of waste lands. On this
subject, aware as he was of its importance, still
he thought the breadth of land alleged to
be reclaimable was ratter exaggerated.—(Hear, hear.)
But considering the number of persona, who, from indi-
vidual observation, had noticed the extent of lands lying
waste, which were cepsl,le of cultivation, it had been
thought proper by the Government to introduce a
measure, authorising; a grant of money to be laid
out on the reclamation 41,(1 improvement of these
lands. He admitted that f.tich a measure ought
to be introduced, and carried out with great
caution—(lleur, hear, from Lord Brougham and the
Opposition), and especially so, in order to prevent such
land when reclaimed Living- rise again to the cottier

system.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") - He said it would
be for their Lordships to consider, when the subject was
before them, whether this evil ceull be guarded against.
The Government proposed to avoid that evil by reclaim-
iug the land and altoterne it not into small but into large
allotments, which would be rented under such condi-
tions as would effectually prevent the incurrence of such
an evil. Another topic e hick had caused much discus-
sion in the country, and been frequently before
the attention of Parfiement, was emigration.
That was a subject which had lately occupied the
serious consideration of her Mojesty's Govern-
ment, and he for one wished that some stimulus
could be given to the people of these realms on that
subject, but he felt the cliffieuity which impeded it. But
he was of opinion that inducements might be offered •
the emigrant on the other side of the Atlantic, by offer-
ing him, when once trsniported across, a security for
subsistenceand employ tricot. 'rhe Government had already
experimented in this way, having applied a very small
sum to the purpose of ;aiding emigrants when they went
out, and the results had been most beneficial, as their
Lordships would see trom the coy respondence which
would be laid before them. It was the wish of the
Government to increase that small sum, in order thai
every emigrant when he reached the land of his destina-
tion should have reached the end of his toil, and that he
should have soma seem ity for obtaining such a situation
and employment as hs might desire. He said, perhaps,
their Lordships would be surprcsed to hear the strong
fiagiAlier iy,hildlaittel in this country and especially
certained that during the past year
at Quebec and 970 at St. John's, two-thirds of whom
were Irish.
Lord STANLEY—The number for last year was
100,000.
. Lord GREY—It was about 110,000.
Lord LANSDOWNE rose, and sa=d be was obliged
to the Noble Lord for the correction, but the number he
was stating was a return for the colonies of England.
He felt it was the duty of Government to encourage and
to aid the emigration of the people. There was one
ether subject which had occupied the attention and
partly the efforts of Government with respect to Ire-
land. He referred to the Fisheries. Ho said Govern-
ment had established on the north coast—the coast of
Mayo and the neighhouring counties—three curing sta-
tions for poor fishermen who were not able to procure
the same advantages ler themselves. Government
wished to continue these which had been attended with
most beneficial effects, and to erect more round
the west and south coasts ; and they proposed
further granting a small loan to the land-
lords for the purchase of machinery, boats, and
tackle, which loan would be on the same terms as
the others, viz.: at 31 per cent. and repayment These,
he said, were the measures which Government proposed
immediately introducing Lefare the attention of Parlia-
ment. He was aware that 'any attempt to make a per-
manent provision for the poor, was attended with the
greatest difficulty, and though he considered that out-
door relief was rather an unsafe principle to introduce
into Ireland, yet he theught there was a class of people
to whom this might be extended under certain regula-
tions; he meant the sick, the aged, and the infirm. It
was also considered that by extending the repayment of
the first instalment of the money advanced by Government
crom next spring to next summer assizes, it would be
exceedingly advantageous, and afford those who had
applied for it ample time to make provision. There
was one other subject to which he would refer to, he
meant the enabling those landlords who had mortgages
on their property to sell portier; of their property to
pay them off. That was the last of the measures which
the Government contemplated to introduce. He had
thus thought it necessary to put their Lordships fully
into possession of the intentions of the Government ;
but, much as ho expected from them, he only regarded
them as auxiliary to individual exertion. The Govern-
ment could not for the relief and for the restoration of
that country make themselves the principals; they
might show the greatest anxiety, but itwas only through
the power of the proprietors that any hope of future
prosperity could be entertained. The nation could assist
the suffering and the afflicted; but it must be the vigour
of their own constitution, and the vitality of their own
body, that they must look to fur permanent success and
for permanent relief. The arm might be extended to
support the tree which was bending its head to the
temporary blast, but it v, as only to the vigour in the
roots of the tree and to the vitality which it had in
itself that they must look fur its permanent restoration,
aided for a time by the efforts of a united kingdom; and
if they only found a corresponding feeling established
elsewhere—if there were a vigorous following up of
every means which would be now afforded for adding to
the number of labourers, fur the employment of la-
bourers, and for creating a race of independent labourers,
which hardly now existed in many parts of that
country, they would insure the improvement of the
people, and he entertairad a sanguine hope, without
dissembling the rude and the severe trial through
which they must pass,
that they would see an im-
proved state of society, and the establishment of peace
and prosperity in that country.—(Cheers.) It would be
his duty to answer any que:Aions which might arise upon
these measures. He had candidly explained them, and
he trusted that in a spirit of patriotism and of unanimity
as far as could be done, their Lordships would turn their
minds to these various important, and, in their nature,
most urgent measures.—(Loud cheers.) The Noble
Lord concluded by proposing that copies of the corre•
spondence of the Beard of Works and the Commissariat
Department in Ireland should be laid upon the table of
the House.
Lord STANLEY would not trespass on the attention
of their Lerdships for more than a few minutes, fur after
the able speech of the Noble Marquis, he more than ever
adhered to the opinion he had already expressed, that
any attempt to discuss the measure proposed by her Ma-
jesty's Government would be premature. He thought
that the course which had been pursued by her Majesty's
Government, or rather the manner in which it had been
proposed,theirLowrdasshivps, lld
very impartial.
There was no Member
of
CCtl not feel the magni-
tude of the evil with which they had to deal. They
should also look to the of of !his measure upon Ire-
land, not only at the present moment, but as a remedy
for the evils to which the country in future might be
subjected, with a view to retort: the proper tone of
society in that country, and to ensure a more prosperous
condition for the future. He fully concurred with the
Noble Marquis in considteing the interference of Par-
liament last session in tee Labour Rate Act
as most injurious. The consequence had been,
that by -that interference, employment had been turned
solely to public instead of private works. It had been
stated that eight or nine Government functionaries had
been appointed to superintend the employment, and for
theeffieient;supervision of looking after these works they