The Sun.
London, England, 1847-06-29 00:00:00

give Irish railways an opportunity of borrowing money
at 3i instead of 6or 7 per cent. It was said that rail-
ways would be a hood 'thine. for Ireland, so they
would be, but why should loans of money be
toil t,t Trel ed not to Lug' .eol also ?
After tne signal d, :feat IN hie!). the measure tis 4 sustained
on a previous occasion, who would have thought that
such a measure as the present would have been pro-
posed by her Majesty's Government. The present popu-
lation of this country were suffering from the effect of the
measures which had been passed to avert famine in Ireland.
and was it fair, was it just to lay an additional burden
upon the people for the construction of railways in Ire-
land? If assistance were to be granted to Irish railway
companies, why was it not to be granted to the
distressed artisans and manufacturers of this
country ? The master manufacturers were fully
prepared to offer more valuable security for such ad-
vances than any Irish Railway Company could propose,
and they could also employ a considerably larger amount
of labour. But it might be said that there were some
special reasons for proposing this greet. The Chancellor
of the Exchequer had said that he should not re-
quire the whole of the 8,000,0001. which he had
borrowed for the purpose for which it was obtained, and
therefore he appeared to think it his duty to spend the
money in some way, good, bad, or indifferent. It would
be better to let the 620,0001. of surplus loan find its way
into the pockets of the English people, leaving
it to fructify there rather than squander and waste
it upon Irish railway companies, thereby doing no good
to any person or company whatever. Entertaining
these
opinions, he felt it to be his duty to move that this Bill
be read a second time that day six months.
Mr. WILLIAMS thought that the Chancellor of the
Exchequer had done sufficient mischief already during
the nine months he had been in office without
incurring fresh risks and courting fresh dangers.
He had already reduced the balances in the Exchequer
from the sum of 9,000,0001. to 5,450,001., and had added
8,000,0001. to the national debt of this country. The
railways which it was proposed to assist had not made
out a ease to warrant such assistance being rendered to
them. The state of the money market was not such as to
afford the expenditure of so large a sum of money
as was proposed by this Bill. The Bank of England
and the commerce of this country was just emerging
from a most dangerous crisis, and this measure would
only have the effect of bringing about the same disas-
trous state of things ; and why was all this danger to be
run for the sake of assisting or speculating in some Irish
railways ? Believing the measure to be wrong in prin-
ciple and injurious, he should give it all the opposition
in his power.
Lord J. RUSSELL had before stated that the pros
posed measure was not at variance with the course
usually adopted by the Government. The Government
had felt it their duty to oppose the plan of the Noble
Lord opposite on two grounds, one of which was,
that there was before the House the prospect
of an immense expenditure for Ireland, and
the Government thought it unwise at that time to pledge
the House to the expenditure of 16,000,0001. of meneY'
Another reason was that the measure would not have
afforded the requisite relief for the people of Ireland.
He thought then, and still did, that railways were net
calculated to afford such relief as was then required.
The Government had, however, admitted that railways
and other public works, were the legitimate
objects of public assistance. There We's
nothing either in the arguments used by the Governs
ment, or the decision of the House upon that plea, which
was to preclude the House for ever from making ad-
vances to any Railway. The House had sane;
tion invariably the application of large sums of
public money to the promotion of public works; the Bill
before the House was therefore in perfect accordance with
the practice of the House. And, Sir (continued the
Noble Lord), it is a misapprehension of this plan to sup-
pose, as the Hon. Member for Coventry supposes, that
we purpose to advance money at the rate of three-and-a"
half per cent., thereby asking an unusually low rate.
The rate we propose to ask is that which is usually asked,
say five per cent., and I therefore conclude that so far
from that being at variance with the general prineiPl2
sanctioned by the House, it is in perfect accordance with
the general principle which has been found to work be-
neficially for both parties. But, Sir, I must admit we
are on this occasion going beyond the usual amount of
advances for these purposes, and that, in fact—and notl
as the Hon. Member for Southwark has put it—the only
question at issue is, shall we or shall we not adopt s
plan which requires a larger advance than the Eacbc
quer Loan Commissioners would be able to advance
they had only such a sum of money as that which ~1
cording to the usual course of events would come into
their hands. For this purpose I must admit that It Is
necessary to make out a case of exception. But so far
from having any difficulty in making out this case el
exception, I should only fatigue the House were d
to go over again the abundant proofs that Ireland ant
the state of Ireland do form an exception to seY„,,
t,°,
those normal rules by which we are usually guided. .-tm
Hon. Baronet the Member for Southwark told us °
look to the public works in England and to the industry
and manufactures of this country. But is there any re-
semblance between the state of England and that
of
Ireland?—(Elear.) You must look at the condition of
Ireland, such as it has been made by a long course of
legislation and government. You must look to the states
of the people—to the many millions living in the most
wretched habitations—on the lowest and cheapest de-
scription of food—and without that share of the neces-
saries, still less of the comforts, of life usually enjoyed by
the English labourer.—(Hear.) I must confess, looking
Back to the history, the example and condition of other
cities, that legislation-and government have an influence
on the condition of the people, not for some ten or twenty
years, but for centuries. If you look to the present con-
dition of the people of Tuscany, you will see there re-
mains a proof of that vigorous republic which once ruled
at Florence. If you look to the condition of Flanders,
you will still see traces of the just and mild govern-
ment of the house of Burgundy ; and if you locIE
to the condition of the territory of Valencia, yon will
observe traces of the cultivation of its Moorish gover-
nors. In many parts of Europe in which I have tra-
velled the condition of the people has been influenced
by the Government, not of the moment, but by rulers
and governments which had long since passed away.
---
(Hear.) And Ireland, Sir, is no exception to this rule.
If you go back centuries—if you look to what legislation
_
was a century ago, you will find the great majority of
her people debarred from all office in the state_from all
those distinctions at the bar or any other professionto
which talent could aspire. You will find them so s
de-
barred from the enjoyment of land that in many cases
any relation who might turn out a villain could actuta:h11sy
dispossess them. If, in addition to this, you find
the whole course of legislation has been to degrade and
s
w
oppress them, then I think no one will wonder that .
should now find millions of her people living in tne
lowest condition of human life, and thrown into
utter destitution by the failure of a single crop
(Hear, hear.) I think it would be a narrow, an
unjust, and an unfair view of our duty towards
Ireland, if we merely regarded what had been done
for the last ten or twenty years, and then laid down the
general principle, so complacently laid down by the
Hon. Baronet the Member for Southwark, that as
England depended on her own resources, so ought Ire-
land, and that we ought not to help Ireland unless we •
also assisted England. But, Sir, if we bad governed
Ireland as we have governed England, can there be any
doubt that Ireland would have been now capable of doing
for herself what we are now called upon to do for her.—
(Hear, hear.) It is not late legislation, it is not the Act
of 1829, that act of tardy justice, which can, in a few
years,own
prospects,place t
and Irish in a position to
3oih
ng
likewo r work
that outs t a
ttheir
eof
comfort and well-being in which we have the happiness
bEandgilnissleicpueroitpyl,,e
tgheenaebrasellnyceploafcecda.pitlanl Ireolatnsdeewieughatvhee
con-
sequent on that insecurity, and crime arising from
general causes, with which it is your business to deal.
It will not do for you merely to find fault with the
outrages committed from time to time, and to attribute
them entirely to the indocility and oppression
of the people. I say there is here abundant
reason why you should do something more.
The Noble Lord then went on to say the land-
owners of Ireland had, in his opinion, very justly been
called upon to pay a large burden in supporting the poor
of that country. Under all these circumstances, it was,
in his opinion, the duty of the Government to assist by
all means in their power the people of Ireland. With
respect to the railways proposed to be assisted by this
measure, it had been clearly ascertained by
very competent persons that they were such
as would amply remunerate the outlay of the
proposed capital. He thought, therefore, that
by passing this Bill, the House would be
taking a step in the right direction towards the improve-
ment of Ireland. Measures had already been passed
calculated to afford :immediate relief to that country, and
it was now the duty of the House to consider and pro-
vide measures calculated to raise and promote the future
permanent conditions and welfare of the people of Ire-
land, too long delayed by unjust and improper legisla-
tion. The Hon. Baronet the Member for Southwark
had entirely perverts d the argument used against this
measure with respect to the fund out of which the grant
was to be made. His Right lion. Friend's argument
was an answer to the objection of those who would ask,
" How are you to make provision for this sum of
600,0001. ?" His Bight Hon. Friend's answer was a
complete one, for lee says, " I have no difficulty about
this, for there is already a provision made for that
&
amount in the expenditure of the current years ,pro-
vision which will admit of the laying out of 600,0001 T:
this purpose." It is not that this sum might as well_n
spent because there is a provision for it, but because this
is an advantageous and useful mode of
Gentleman
expenditure.e;
"a
(Hear.) It had be en shown in this and in former
debates that this is a most useful object, rre_
pply the
fore he was of opinion that they ought
° en
money to this purpose. The Honourable G,xche.
who spoke last referred to the balance in the
...r.,
as
01
quer being reduced from 9,000,0001. to 5,000,000.
argument against this measure. In the month f A
1846, the balance in. the Exchequer was 6,500,0001., and
f o
in 1847 it was 5,459,000/., being about 611.111
1,040,0001. less th.sn in the former year. But doestt
financier, who looks at this question fairly, leave out of
its consideration the great calamity which has occurred?
—(Hear, hear.) Ora that this House has been obliged
s
to advance a large SIMI of money to relieve the distress
which existed ?—(Hear, hear.) No one would carry out
their financial calculations in the same anode, whether or
not there had been. a great calamity like this; no one
who had been anything of an observer of financial affairs
would do so, perhaps, except the Hon. Member for Co-
ventry—(Hear, hear}—or would have assumed that the
results should be the- same, although the facts had been
so different. In conclusion, he had but to say that he
thought as a general policy which the House ought to
adopt with respect to, Ireland, it would be acting with
good deal of injustice towards that country if it did not
consent to the second reading of this Bill.—(Hear.)
Mr. ROEBUCK th ought that the Noble Lord at the
head of the Governne ent should be greatly obliged to