The Sun.
London, England, 1847-01-20 00:00:00

policy of England was bound up in the existence of such terms
of amity, but the same necessity did not absolutely exist with
regard to Prussia. Still,.-however, Prussia was more to
blame than either of the other powers. Cracow, no doubt,
was objectionable to Russia, but how it could be
so to Prussia he was at a loss to understand.
Russia, however, required the extinction of Cracow,
and Russia consented to it, but‘it woulo have earned itself
more glories and.more respect had it stood against the plan.
He esteemed the abilities of the ruler of Austria, and the

learning of the King of Prussia, and yet he believed that they I
would do much by the establishment of free and liberal institu-
tions in their several states to blot out the stain upon their
national character, which the Cracow proceedings had cast
upon them. The Noble Lord who moved the address,almed
them by describing the alterations in the Laws of Pro3erty,
which the new measure for relieving Ireland would bring about,
but the Noble Lord did not go very fully into
the subject, because he omitted to say any thing
about local courts, and such tribunals.—( Hear. ) Now
it was important that this branch of the subject touched upon
by the Noble Lord should be deliberately considered by their
Lordships; but he was very much afraid they would not have
the opportunity of making amendments or alterations in it, and
he would tell their Lordships why. They would Lave to agree
to the measure whether they approved of it or not, The mea-
sure would be made a money Bill, and how could their. Lord..
ships, in the existing state of things, refuse to sanction it?—
(Hear, hear.) To obviate this difficulty, if the House of Corn-
MODS did not wish to monopolise the collective wisdom of
the country, the plan should be agreed to in the shape
of resolutions, and he was convinced _ neither the
other House of Parliament nor the country would have
cause to regret such a course. Their Lordships had not so
much to do as the other House, and they had therefore mere
time for discussing and improving such measures.—( Hear,
hear.) Their Lordships ought, to he careful that a line— a
broad line—was drawn between measures intended to be per-
manent, and those of a mere temporary character, passed aril
agreed to, to meet a momentary expediency, or a passing evil.
Surely their Lordships ought to have some power of discussing
all these measures, because, come up to them in whatever form
they might, in the present state of things, they could not be
rejected. But measures agreed to in a time when sufferings of
the most heartrending description pervaded theJand, rendered
the more heartrending, because,more touching the patience
—the almost inimitable patience with which it seemed to be
borne—where scenes of suffering and misery were being
.enacted daily, the parallels of which were not to be found
even in the pages of Thueydides, on the canvass of Poussin, or
in the dismal chant of Dante, could never be intended to be
permanent, and, therefore, it was, that he urged upon their,
Lordships the urgent necessity of taking care that no perma-
nent measure should be agreed to in times so har-
rassing and exciting. The importance and necessity
for this caution, was fully proved in the case of the
Labour-rate Act. That measure had failed; there was net
one man out of a hundred who agreed to it last year who was
not now prepared to surrender and give up its benefits. That
measure was passed in exciting and distressing times to meet
a momentary emergency, though still intended to be perma-
nent, and it had failed. He t rusted, therefore, a strict line
would be drawn between measures of a permanent character
and those only intended to serve temporary purposes. In proof
of the evil results of hasty measures, he would refer to the
Bill passed in Mr. Pitt's time, in the year 1797, relating to
cash payments. That was intended to be a temporary mea-
sure • but how long did they think it lasted ? Why, it con-
tinued for three-arnl-twenty years, and its hasty repeal then
was nearly as mischievous as the Bill itself. Let them take
care, therefore, that their temporary measures would not be
productive of the same results. The present evils under which
they laboured were bad enough, but he was very much afraid
that the next year's crop would be also sadly. deficient. The
Labour-rate proceeding had taken away the labourers of the
land, and there had been no attempt to raise a crop for the
coming year He deprecated, therefore, any rash legislation
on the subject, for he believed that ili-advised measures would
cause a greater amount of evil than they were intended to
cure. With regard to. the absentee landlords, he differed
widely from his Noble Friend who moved the address. Gene-
rally speaking, an absentee landlord had a goodagent who filled
in a great degree the duties of the absentee owner just as well
as if he himself resided in the country. He, was not disposed
to think that the Irish absentee landlords acted in a different
manner.

Lord HATHERTON—My observation did not apply to the
large proprietors. The great mass of the Irish absentee land-
lords are small owners.

Lord BROUGHAM—Then where did they live? He could
not believe that they had been so neglectful of their duties as
had been represented. lie would, at all events, hazard one
observation, that nothing could be more dangerous, or more
calculated to entail misery upon the Irish people, than to in-
duce them to believe that when in a state of destitution they
had a claim upon the imperial revenue. He believed that to
inculcate such doctrines would prove fatal to industry—ruinous
to the future interests of the country, and superinduce a
thoughtlessness and extravagance totally indescribable.
It would be most particularly mischievous to the
Irish people, who were so sanguine in their hopes,
so confident in their delusions, and who easily relapse
into their habits of indolence. They were not to judge of the
Irish labourers by such of them as visited England to cut down
the harvest, for a better class of labourers he never saw. He
could undertake to say that they never took a chicken along
the whole course of their journey, and they worked extremely
hard, and endured great privations during their stay. But that
was not the character of the labourer in his own country.
Therefore nothing ought to be done to induce him to suppcne
that his wants were ready to be supplied by the Treasury of
the empire. Let them- have advances by lean, but let care
be taken that it be properly appropriated, usefully
applied, and the interest paid, and the principal repaid by the
parties who obtained it, and who were locally benefited. He
did not think that any Government, however strong, would
dare to make such a proposal to the English people, and he
could not conceive a. more frightful scene than would he
dis-
closed if two or three millions were given in this way.
Among the various strange statements whidi from time to
time came from that country, as proof of the evils of the con-
nexion, was one from the Right Rev., or he should rather say
the Archbi.hop, M'Hale, to the effect that pensions, to
the amount of sixty millions, had, during the last half century,
been imported into this country, but he forgot to state that
they had been all paid for.—( Laughter.) He presumed at
was some such consideration of this kind which induced one
authority to ask for the present distress forty millions and ano-
ther sixty millions. He objected to any gifts of the kind. Let
the money advanced to help them be paid back, both principal
and interest. '1 hat was the only security they could
have for the ultimate good of the Irish people and the
prevention of those evils which now distre,s the coun-
try. Ho considered the present contributions in this country
for the relief of tho distress in Ireland were chiefly
valuable as indications of. the good feeling of individuals, and
he had no language to describe the naked atrocity of a charge,
contained in one of the Irish papers, to the effect that the
money was sent over to make converts to the Protestant
religion of the starving population. Nothing so false as that
ever before came under his notice. Many excused themselves
from contributing on the ground of the payments into the
savings banks of that country, and the subscription to what
was called the "rent," but these subscriptions were paid by
one class, and the. misery endured by another. They
should see when the time arrived what the measures
were, which the Government intended to propound.
But with regard to what had been stated by the Noble Lord
behind him (Stanley) in reference to depots of supply, he
begged entirely to dissent. Cases might arise in singularly
circumstanced countries where such a course might be deemed
advisable, but anything of the kind on a large scale, such as
was contemplated, would, he conceived, be exceedingly dan-
gerous and prolific of evil. With respect to the financial
affairs of the country, it was well known that great sums of
money had been employed in railway speculation. He be-
lieved that in a short time upwards of 6,000,000!. had been
employed in -this country upon various railways. He hap-
pened to know that in France it was the same thing. _They
had their financial crisis, and the Bank of France had gone
down to 2,000,000/. Ho now told them that even if they had
sent for corn to foreign markets, and sent goods to purchase it
for their own distresses, they would not get it for anything but
gold and silver. And it was the same with France. In the
event of any interchange .of commodities, and the blessings of
such an interchange would be felt by the whole country, the
Bank of England would not feel it necessary to keep their dis-
counts raised to a quarter per cent. But they bad done it in
consequence of the Bank of France, Supposing the Ameri-
cans were to say that they would allow their corn to be p. r-
chased without paying bullion for it, they could not purchase
it, for the goods were not ready owing to the bad state of
trade. The manufacturers had not shaped their supplies for
any foreign demand, and that was in' consequence of the Go-
vernment sending fifty or sixty millions into the market and
destroying private speculation. He did not mean to under-
rate the exertions that had been made for the people
of Ireland or the sympathy felt fur the people, but he
felt it to be his duty to mention these evils which it was pos •
sible to put down by legislation. Facility
.should be given for
the cheap transfer and conveyance of land, with a due regard to
the interest of the next heirs. He would conclude his remarks by
apologizing for the length of time which he had occupied,
and he would ask the judgment of the House whether he had
not kept a promise, one, however, which he had never
made.—(Laughter)—of not entering on any offensive or
invidious topic.
Earl FITZ WILLIAM said that he felt extreme satisfac-
tion at what had passed' in that House during the course of
the present debate; and he trusted that the tone of the other
House would correspond with what had taken place there, for
he was sure, and he had the strongest opportunity of observing,
that there had existed in the minds of .the English public an
incredulity with reference to the existence of distress in Ire-
land, which he trusted would be removed. The obset vatioas
which had fallen from many Noble Lords in the course of the
present conversatiun, but more particularly in the moving and
touching speech delivered by his Noble Friend who had
seconded the Address—( Hear, hear)—and he trusted that
noiwithstanding the low tone in which that speech was de-
livered, every word of it would, in some way or other, find
its way out of doors, and sink 'into the minds and hearts of
English people; er, if they had not felt as much alive on this
subject as he had, he trusted it would excite in other minds
more sympathy for the distress of their brethren in Ireland.
There was, unfortunately, on this side of the channel, a dis-
position to incredulity of everything that happened on the
other. He entirely agreed with his Learnedand Noble Friend,
that there had not commenced a session of Parliament
in the recollection of those who now sat in it under circum-
stances more awful than those which now presented them-
selves to their consideration. There was on the present occa
sion something worth thinking about, and worth the while of
every man who bad a .mind capable of thinking, to turn all
his energies,. in order to devise what could be done for that
country. It was no common problem they had to solve, and
depend upon it,
it was not by small or half measures they could-
think of staying the calamity.—(Hear, hear.) Measures
had been proposed, as far as he had been able to collect
them front her Majesty's Speech, and as far as he could collect
them from his Noble Friend with respect to all these miseries;
He had nothing to say to them as far as they went, except
that he approved of them. But whether they would go to
the full length, or up to the full measure of those calamities,
or whether they were capable of solving the problem. to be
solved by legislation, he could not pretend to say. The question
was one on which he entertained some doubt. Whoever
was desirous of coming to a sound conclusion on this subject,
must consider in his own mind what other great phenomena
Ireland presented to their consideration. The great pheno-
menon of Ireland was its rural :population. Out of 8,0,000
of people, seven-eighths of them were included under that
denomination. It was clear to every man, that one-half of
that population was capable of cultivating the country much
better than it was now. In truth, notwithstanding, he re-
membered having offended a Noble Marquis, who sat
near him in speaking on this subject, he would venture again
to say that agriculture, except in a few instances, could scarcely
be sa.d to exist in Ireland. Agriculture in England was car-
ried on as a trade, but speaking generally of Ireland, the It ish
farmer and the Irish cottier tenant did not sit down on their '
land to carry on a trade, but to live, and any surplus went to
the payment of the rent. As long as that land was inhabited,
and - lived on by the cottier tenantry, they could never
legislate for it as they did for the rural popula-
tion •in England. They might be deceived by the
similarity of words, but they should not legislate
for the two countries alike, because the tenantry in both
countries were described under the same denomination„

The present Poor-laws in Ireland had been fraught"
with mischief, and the whole system would continue
so until the- surplus population of Ireland was drained.
Irr the reign of chalice 11., there was a prohibition to the.fin