The Sun.
London, England, 1840-07-28 00:00:00

EVENING ,EDITION.

Made for the circumstances in which China was placed. It
'van conseTeently his wish that the peeple of that country
should be persuaded that there was no desire on the part
of the Government, at least of this country, to press the
quarrel further than necessity might require.
Sir C. GREY explained.
Lord PALMERSTON did not wish to prolong a con-
versation which, in point of fact, he believed, was hardly
conformable to the rules of the House, inasmuch as the
lion. Member did not end with any motion ; but he was
anxious, however, that it should not entirely cease without
"toe observation on his part. He might say that
be concurred with the Presidept of the Board of
Control in not being able to understand the drift
of the Hon. Gentleman who first began the conversation;
nor could he quite understand his meaning on the main
question on which his speech ran—namely, on the ques-
tion whether those who had lest their property in China
Were or were not entitled to compensation; because, in one
part of his speech, he ( Lord Palmerston) understood him
t° Bay they were not entitled to compensation, whereas,
in another part of his speech, he seemed to say that they
were entitled to compensation, and that it should be givers
Them from the revenues of the country. Whatever opi-
nion the Hon. Member maintained, he ( Lord Palmerston)
was at a loss to understand the course which the Hon.
Member bad pursued with regard to the question. Im-
portant he had stated it to be, in his opinion, and he
must therefore entertain a strong feeling that the proceed-
ings of the Government against China, for the purpose of
obtaining compensation, were unjust, and ought not to be
Pursued. The Hon. Member had stated that opinion
strongly, and in a manner to which he (Lord Palmers-
ton ) would advert in a moment. He had stated_
Jule opinion much more strongly than any person in that.
douse would do, and put forward opinions which he.
(Lord Palmerston) was sorry to find him express. But it'
he entertained those opinions, he must have entertained.
them at the beginning of the Session, and if he did enter-.
fain them at that time, why did he not make some ob-
aervation when his Noble Friend had stated that it was'
bis intention to demand compensation for the losses of the
'Parties in question, and why did he reserve the strong dis-
approbation he had expressed that evening till the end of
:the Session, when the expression of it could not be attended
With any practical result whatever ?—( Hear, hear.) He
did not, therefore, understand the intentions of the Hon.
Gentleman on that subject ; but if the Honourable'
Gentleman thought, on the other hand, that the parties;
'Were entitled to compensation from the revenues of this;
'country—why, he should like to know, when the Report
'of the Committee was laid on the table, and when they were
'voting the supplies for the year, why did not the
Mon. Gentlemen move a vote for a sum for the purpose
o.f that compensation ? With regard to the question be-
tar ten this country and China, the Hon. Member had put
his objections, as he (Lord Palmerston) understood him,
under three heads. The Hon. Member had said, that the
Government contended that they were entitled to proceed
against China, because the Chinese authorities did not give
Vficient notice to the British subjects of their intention.
Now, certainly, that was not the ground on which they
seated their case against the Chinese Government. In
oo_iryl of fact, that Government bad not given due notice,
ter
rsetonh)add.ffgiv.en such notice that could not have al-
_Nta theyac of those proceedings, which he (Lord
eo have b enng from the Hon. Gentleman, considered
and r a nen contrary to the law of nations---( Hear, hear)--
Proete:` ugnant to every principle that ought to guide the
ei clings of men. ( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gen-
hadlaws said that it was not inconsistent with the
of Justice or of nature to seise on the innocent,
pore rder to get hold of the guilty, and to seize on
Whi_nn3 in order to get possession rf property
els did not belong to the parties who were imprisoned,
andi In order by the sufferings of those individuals to extort
what
could not otherwise be obtained. He (Lord Palmer-
2,tnn) had never in his life been more surprised than at the
ueetrine of the Hon. Gentleman on that subject, and he
would tell him that the law he had laid down was that of
eonditti—of the banditti of Spain or of Italy, who seized
On travellers and told them they would shoot them unless
their friends would send money for their release. The one
Practice was very like the other, but he thought the Hon.
Gent, would have been the last person to advocate such
Principles, principles which would tend to the entire cor-
ruPtio lon public morality, and the subversion of every sen-
timent of justice which ought to regulate the conduct of
man towards man.—( Hear, hear.) He thought the Hon.
Gentleman hats chosen a system of advocacy which would
e a bad one in that House. If there was anything which
01 tglit to be held snore sacred than another by those who
lee 're
, pleading the cause of men or of parties, however they
Thig ht try to prove their case, it was that they ought never to
ends avour to break down those principles of public morality
Which mankind acknowledged, and that they ought never
to attempt to corrupt the public mind by doctrines which
every ai an ought to repudiate and discourage.—( Hear. )
Tha 1-100. Member had talked of the sin of poisoning peo-
ple by the importation of opium ; but he would tell the
Gentleman he had committed as great an offence by
endeavouring to poison the public mind by the doctrines
be had mainta-ined. He thought the Hon. Member com-
znitted quite as ;great an offence as those whom he had re-
itiresented as poisoning the health of the people of the Chi-
-1 'ese empire. He would not follow the Hon. Gentleman
tl trough all those details which they had discussed at great
lei agth on a former occasion—whether, for instance, their
fell. ew.countrymen who bad been imprisoned were barba-
rouse'y to be starved to death, for he had not the slightest
doubt that such an attempt bad been made. He had the
best au tliority for stating that parties were imprisoned and
Were de urived of the means of existence according to a
custom an long the Chinese, who endeavoured by that means
to compei cbedience to their orders. His Right Hon.
Prie"d bad al;-eady remarked that the Hon. Gentleman had
sbut his a proceeding of the Chinese authorities,
lkanc-cd -or;cig whenneyes to
they had sent for Mr. Dent they had done so
to the
.Hon. Member, because they loved him
ao much that they we rated his presence. That really was
llta argument which he (Lord Palmerston) thought could
tot brought under e serious consideration of the
B
oe. If the Chinese thhad ally motive for sending for
11rubs • Dent the most charitable one which could be as.
ibllgnel to them was, that they thought they could work on
the mind, and that he was more likely to be acquiescent
tha
• ut
l h any other person. He (Lord Palmerston) would say,
tee proceedings of the Chinese authorities were to- ,
04111 r indefensible and repugnant to every principle which
titttgh tto regulate the reciprocal conduct of nations, and ,
dat 'e were perfectly entitled to demand from them re-
i4ne4B4l.;rotthh: oloust;:iges they had committed, and
titled compenea-
which- our merchants had sustained.
n• Gentleman had said that we were not en-
Re so
e°GrnePtiltatein of the insult offered to the Agent or
thePr4soefintretive of thy, British Government in China, and
tcoathtaei I, Gentleman roan bad taken a distinction with respect
n Elhot
Agent and Representative, and had said that
was not the Representative of the British
.G
oo:v:rnment, but its Agent or Consul. That distinction,
L.
ever, was really too futile to deserve a serious answer.
Government Governent of England sent out an agent to
! ti‘trt,countries to look after British subjects, and to pro-
teir interests or urge their claims, whether he be an
silgte,tt or a representative, he was equally entitled to re-
re ' and if he were outraged, the nation which he
pr. sensed was itself outraged, and it was their
111;l_tY to demand reparation, and satisfaction on
account The Hon. Gentleman had said that
by
liaow of nations Consuls were not entitled
, but he (Lord P.) thought there were many
jaoancee of a contrary practice, and he would remind the
n. Gent.!eman of that dispute between the French Go-
,erl2lllent and one of the Barbary chiefs, when the French
Grn_wul was seized on ; but that gentleman quoted Vette!,
utine, and Pujendorf, to show that he was entitled to be
b'e&teiesecl. He (Lord P.) believed that that individual was
vi•er acquainted with the law of nations than the Hun.
b rnheetoter; By the universal practice of nations, an officer,
he might be called, who was sent to take charge
ltr thr interests of a nation was entitled to be respected by
,_°ereigi Governments, and it he were not the nation which
_e_. reiresented, was entitled to call for redress. The Hon.
ienteman seemed to him (Lord P.) to have turned his
'Pre.sions rather unfortunately, because, if he felt the
ofe 4:11 objections which he had stated to the employment
'we against China, be ought to have pressed his opi-
m the House at a time when such a course might
that tt
)een attended with some effect. He remembered
sutt is the debate on the motion of the Hon. Baronet op-
tsite (Sir J. Graham) the Hon. Member for Wiltshire,
4ad Said' that it was still time to stop the proceedings
gainer if a quick sailing vessel were sent out for
the
1,0 Purposes. The Hen. Member for Newark had,
li„wever, rem ained silent on that occasion, and reserved
if. °Pinions ti,ll the present late period of the session.
could only ,eay, in conclusion, that nothing that had
,;."en from the Gentleman or the Noble Lord had
411 altered the s
views which he bad taken and the Go-
v AliZele,nnent had taken of these matters, and in those views he
they were fortified, not only by their own convic-
eivnne, but by the gemeral oiion of the country. How-
meet Much he regretted therm ecessity of taking hostile
I,,.eaures against a nation like China, still he thought that
IT.nnrsters would have been guilty of an abandonment of
Zell duty, if they had hesitated for a moment to take
nieerlB.tePa as the honour a.ed dignity of the country re-
theirß. PEEL
rel .
inlt abatis of this country with China were at present
froenciZsP„"cated state, and he thought the results arising
beret, complications were in the highest degree em-
-44114, :1; With respect to compensation to the mer-
settled
~e bad given up their opium, conceiving it to be
iron, "t they were enabled to seek some compensation
ulthnauZ'ewbere, he was very much afraid that it would
He
Iv_ ys ?cm_ e from British commerce.—( Hear, hearr)
aub.._.ee ae ished that the principal sufferers would be
discussion
of the British empire. In the course of the
..._ union whlc:., bad taken place in the House at
thatacts
period of the Session, he had stated
ects had been committed by the Chinese, which could
linootv,stilaetitified, hut .he strongly felt then, and he felt so
_ c that eanlPlicati°n
bated to the
violence of affairs that bad led to the
had been commieted was mainly to be attri-
Majesty,* want of proper prec.••etion on the part offhhey
11". Frie He had not heeerd that part o
Le:ishedact en clea
speech
which the Noble Lord had charac-
snuch harsh terms, but of this he was certain, that
ject forward ifi'ra
mi:diject in ,
orty
Irene a stronghis own seose of what was right, and
but had broogiit the sub-
menirnitted would feelingbe attended that the acts which were about to be
attended with the worst results.
tt• Mr' HAWFS could not forget that the Chinese autho-
tl'es bad invited the establishment of a British Superin-
t."(2ent in China to regulate the trade, and accordingly a
ecritieh officerEwa.s sent there in the person of Lord Napier,
and Ca ptai Elliot being his successor he must be taken
hisl3 the ilrepresentative of the British Government, and
rree acts, therefore, ought to have been respected.
qa,ntion at issue between this country and
Cho
was one of the greatest importance to
athwearcowma-s
,:truce of the country. He would not say that
e01i..411Y going on, because he was in hopes that this
eeituatrrY's exbibitii:g a bold front, would render war unne-
svard The Hoe% Gentleman who bad brought for-
Party motive ; if h're
he present quee•tion had said he had done so from
had not, he could have no motive
the GO:
4t all
howhultrl had
rrorennnlesse indeed, Le condemned the policy
pursued on the subject, and if he did,
of hie
own
?ask
"why he bad s'eot started a different policy
He thought the c‘Nrse pursued by the Go-