The Sun.
London, England, 1840-03-07 00:00:00

how their privileges could be injured by the proposal to
legislate with regard to them ; but after what hed fallen
from the Noble Lord the Member for Northumberland, he
was anxious to state what was his paramount reason for in-
troducing the Bill. His Noble Friend had said, that by
legislating on the matter, they would admit that their pri-
vileges were weakened by the opposition of the Court of
Queen's Bench, and that they had, therefore, recourse to
other :assistance to maintain them. Now he ( Lord John
Russell) said no such thing. He merely said that they
were engaged in a conflict of considerable difficulty, and
that he had no doubt, that if they were driven to ex-
tremities, the House would prove itself superior to every
other authority. Their powers were now, however, very
imperfect, and they were bringing them into a conflict
which it would be most desirable to avoid. That, he
thought, would be generally admitted ; for his Hon. and
Learned Friend the Solicitor-General had said that they
were arrived at a point which would soon bring the ques-
tion to a crisis; and the Hon. and Learned Member for
Dublin had said that they should soon come into collision
with the Judges. He (Lord John Russell) did not consider
much as he might be taunted on the subject—he did riot
consider that that was a question on which the only qua-
lity that could be shown was the quality of courage.—
( Hear.) He would confess that when great public evils
were to be avoided, which might be done by legislation, a
little prudence would be as necessary as courage.
lie trusted he should not want in courage, were it abso-
lutely necessary—which he should regret, to enter into col-
lision with the Judges; but he should say as to the cou-
rage of entering wantonly, illegally, and without an abso-
lute and overpowering necessity into a contest, which
would lower the character of that tribunal—which would
divide the people of the country into hostile parties
on a difficult question, and which in the end might injure
their best interests—which might manifest the power of the
House in that particular instance, but which would
impair the progress of legislation for the whole
Session—he should say as to that courage that he
could not lay claim to it.—( Hear, hear.) If the
House were now prepared to enter on the question with
temper and forbearance, there was a great prospect that
they might soon arrive at a settlement of their difficulties.
His Noble Friend the Member for Northumberland,
had said that if he (Lord John Russell) were prepared to
legislate on the subject, he should have done so long before.
He (Lord J. Russell) believed, however, that the delay
which had taken place would be attended with the best
results. He found that Hon. Gentleman had lately ex-
pressed opinions on the subject, and he trusted that if a
case should come before the House of Lords, it would be
found this discussion had thrown much light on the case.
He would say that if this discussion had produced this
fact—q it had produced from all the leading Members of
both sides of the House, from Members who had been in
the Cabinet of the Duke of Wellington, in that
of the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite
(Sir Robert Peel), in that of Lord Grey,
and in that of Viscount Melbourne—if it had produced from
the Law Officers of the Crown, and other gentlemen of
high legal reputation, an opinion in which they all agreed,
that the power of publication was necessary to the
House, it had produced much good.—( Hear, hear.)
fle wished to say a word at present with regard to the re-
solution respecting the sale of their publications, which had
been formerly passed ; he did not deny that it might be con-
venient at present to change the order which had been
made; the orders of the House, however, in the matter
had undergone various alterations since the year
1817. He could wish that the Committee which
might be formed, should take these various orders into
consideration, arid introduce as much of them as possible
into the New Bill. He trusted that the House would give
him permission to bring in such a Bill—he trusted that
they would decide at once to proceed by legislation on the
subject, without entering into further considerations with
respect to it, and before he explained to them the Bill
hich he meant to propose.—( Hear, hear.)

The House then divided
For the 13111 203
Against it 54
Majority --149
THE SHERIFF.

Sir J. GRAHAM then rose to move as an amendment
on the Order of the Day for a Committee of Supply, that
the Sheriff be liberated on bail, to be approved of by the
Speaker. He rejoiced that, by the result of the di-
vision which had just taken place, a decided
advance had been made towards a satisfactory
settlement of the question—(Cheers)—and he was de-
sirous of removing every obstacle to the completion of
such a settlement. He had hoped that the Noble Lord
the Member for Northumberland would have brought for-
ward this proposal, because the Noble Lord had himself
stated that he foresaw danger to the Sheriff's health from
protracted close confinement. It was a sound principle
in regard to punishment, that there was a point
beyond which if punishment was carried, it
_only ex-
cited commisseration in the public mind, and revulsion
from the offence was lost in pity for the offender.—( Hear.)
No doubt could be entertained that if the House thought
the Sheriff, or even Stockdale, suffered serious danger
from close confinement they would be disposed to enlarge
them. It should be recollected that the Sheriff had in-
curred no moral guilt—that he had been placed in a situa-
tion of great difficulty between two high contending bodies
—and it was natural that he should take as his guide the
judgment of the Queen's Bench. Up to this mo-
ment he (Sir James) hai resisted every attempt
to enlarge the Sheriff. But he was bound
to say that after an attentive consideration of
the evidence of the medical gentlemen, he feared the
Sheriff's health was in great danger from a continuance of
his close confinement. And pure he was that every Gen-
tleman in the House would deeply regret if a continuance
of that confinement should unhappily prove fatal. Now
he had searched for precedents, and in the reign of George
11. he found four- —particularly he would refer t o the case
of Sir Alexander Murray, who ia 1750, having been
committed by the H U3C for obstructing the re-
turning officer in the Westminster election, was
liberated on bail to be approved by the Speaker. He
thought these precedents laid a strong and safe ground for
the proposition to enlarge the Sheriff on similar terms.
If there were any course calculated to effect this object
which would be more preferable to the House, he would
gladly adopt it. It might undoubtedly be important to
secure the attendance of the Sheriff again at the bar
during the Session. But for his (Sir James's) part
he was quite prepared to liberate the Sheriff
on his parole, and without bail at all. At all events, he
could nut anticipate opposition to the motion he now made.
Mr. P. HOWARD seconded the amendment.—( oo-
position laughter and cheers.) The House had, upon the
medical evidence, discharged the other Sheriff—( Laugh-
ter)—and it ITould be only justice to discharge Mr. Evans
on the same grounds. He was as desirous as any man in
the House to support their privileges, but he agreed with
the Hon. Baronet that there was a point at which punish-
ment assumed the character of persecution.—( Hear and
laughter.) As he thought the Bill which had been just
brought in would be sufficient to protect the privileges of
the House, he felt bound to second the amendment.

Lord HOWICK said that as the Right Hon. Baronet
had alluded to him he thought it necessary in a few words
to explain the great and obvious distinction between the
suggestion which he had made the previous night, and the
present motion. He ( Lord Howick) had only proposed
that the Sheriff should have some freer indulgence of his
personal liberty, but should at the same time be restricted
to a particular residence, and continued in custody. But
the second examination of the medical witness seemed to
him to cut away the only ground on which he could make
the motion.—( Hear, hear.) But the motion of the Right
Hon. Baronet would relieve the Sheriff from all duresse,
upon the single condition of his giving bail for his appear-
ance at the bar when called upon. That motion was per-
fectly idle and nugatory.—(Cheers.) Bail was required
only for persons whom it might be supposed difficult to
find ; but there was no likelihood that there would be any
difficulty in finding a gentleman of Mr. Sheriff Evans'
station and occupations. He agreed in what was said by
the lion. Member for Tamworth, that if they wished to
discharge the Sheriff, they should do so at once, without
reference to his health ; but if upon such evidence they
allowed the plea of ill health to be taken, as a ground for
the discharge of the prisoner, they would establish a pre-
cedent extremely injurious to the administration of justice
in the country. In fact, the Hon. Member for Finsbury
(Mr. Duncombe) had this evening presented a petition
from a friend of Vincent's, now confined in Monmouth gaol
on a charge of sedition, calling on the House to order
the liberation of Vincent upon its own principle, that
ill health was a sufficient plea. If that principle were
admitted, very few people would remain in gaol. He was
bound to sav, however, that after the decision to which
the House had come, he did not consider it of much im-
portance what way the motion was decided, or if the
House ordered the Sheriff to be discharged forthwith.—
(Ironical cheers, and cries of " Move, move.") He cer-
tainly would do no such thing.—( Cheers and laughter.)
He would take less interest in the question than he had
before taken, but ho would still vote against any such mo-
tion.—( Cheers.)
Mr. H. KEMBLE trusted that as the question was
coming to an amicable decision, the House would unani-
mously concur in a motion that the Sheriff be forthwith
discharged. He bad expected that the Noble Lord
(Howick) would vote for the motion, as he heard him say
that if the House agreed to the Bill, it would acknowledge
that the Sheriff had been treated with injustice, and he
expected that he would have the Noble Lord in the ma-
jority if the Right Hon. Baronet had moved for the im-
mediate discharge of the Sheriffs.—( Cheers.) He
had heard it said that the minorities in previous
votes upon this question were influenced by a desire to
bring the reformed House of Commons into contempt.
For his part he repudiated the idea of bringing into con-
tempt any body to which he had the honosar to belong._
(Cheers.) He hoped that night would not be allowed to
pass without a unanimous vote being come to for the libe-
ration of Mr. Sheriff Evans.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. HAWES hoped if the House came to any decision
that night it would come to it upon clear and intelligible
grounds. If Mr. Sheriff Evans wereto be discharged it must
be upon one of these grounds, either that he had purged his
contempt, which he had not, that he had sufficient punish-
ment, or on account of his state of health. As to the
latter, those Hon. Members who had heard the evidence
of Dr. Chambers, he thought, must be convinced that
that ground had entirely failed.—( Hear, hear.) For his
own part he thought it would be more manly to discharge
the Sheriff without any reason at all, than upon the ground
of ill health. He thought that Gentlemen who moved for
the discharge of the other Sheriff should make out a case
for doing so, which the Rtht Hon. Baronet had failed in
doing.
Sir T. COC HR ANE supported the motion of the
Right Hon. Barone, the Member for Pembroke, consider-
ing, after the evidence given by Dr. Chambers and Mr.
Freeman, that it was the bounden duty of the House to
discharge Mr. Sheriff Evans immediately.
Mr. WAK LEY wished to address a few words to the
House upon the amendment. The amendment did not
meet the necessities of the case. He thought the House
would exhibit itself in the face of the country as one of
the most paltry and contemptible bodies that ever existed, if'
it retained any one of the pa, ties in custody a single minute
after the decision to which it had just como.—( Cheers,
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