The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-23 00:00:00

property, but I will not submit to have the influence of my
property habitually turned against myself, and I a ill nor
of my own free will place instruments in the hands of
ot,iers for the purpose of effecting that." Now, Sir, I say
that that is a natural course, and I believe that
it is a course to which very little exception could
be t..ken. I say that that is the state of so-
c•cya to a certain extent in England. I say that
there are those tendencies afloat, and those tendencies, as
between landlord and tenant, have led to a diminution of
the number of electors, from the indisposition of land-
lords to put into the hands of their tenants engines to be
wielded in political warfare against themselves. Sir, I
regret this state of things ; I regret this result ; I regret
this diminution cf the constituency arising from this
cause ; and I say, moreover, if you can show me that
things are fast verging back to the period when the con-
stituency of Ireland was in a small number of hands, and
th it tin excessive influence is again monopolising the Irish
interest in opposition to the principles of the Reform Act,
which went to confirm the franchise as extensive, and
upon the same classes of persons, as in England—l see
the Hon. Gentleman is going to take down my words—
(the Noble Lord was understood to refer to Mr. O'Con-
nall)—but I have very frankly to say, that when you show
me that state of society arising from that cause, I shall be
prep ireil to discuss with you, with the full view of cor-
lee ing that which I admit to be an evil, the best
of counteracting such a state of thing..
Ilcoore I can take that course it must be shown to
me to what extent the constituencies of Ireland have
b;Tn reduced—you must show me that, and then I will
be ready to discuss with you the whole matter ; but I
would advise you that it is not a matter that can be treated
lightly. I tell you that it will be a matter of serious MO-
merit, for it will be an exercise of the powers of the Legis-
lature ,giinst property-_( Hear, hear)—.and that probably
property may turn against you.—( Cheers.) But I must
know to what extent the diminution of the constituencies
of I, child has gone. Let me look at the country consti.
tuencies of Ireland. At the period of the Reform Bill,
I calculated them to amount to 52,000. Upon that occa-
sion the lion. and Learned Member for Dublin stated
that I had taken an extravagant estimate of their num-
bers, and he said that I would probably have been more right
had I taken them at one half of that number, and he
added that if we adopted the Si. franchise, we might pro-
bably get a constituency to the number of from 60,000
to 90,000. Now, Sir, I hold in my hand a paper which
was moved for by the Hon. Member for Kilkenny, and
pressed for by the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin.
In 1831 arid 1832, I calculated the amount of the consti-
tuency at 52,000—what is it now ? By this paper, I find
that the present moment it is no less than 99,157.
(Cheers.) I find that in ten of the counties there has
been a very considerable increase in the number of voters
since 1832, and even since 1835—in two counties only has
there been any diminution since 1835.—(Cheers.) The
nett increase in the county constituency since 1835 was
10,419, and since 1832, taking the lowest calcu-
lations, the increase is not less than cent.
per cent.—(Cheers.) Now, Sir, let us look
at the borough constituencies; they also have aug-
mented since 1835. I find by this paper, that in ten bo-
roughs there has been a considerable increase, and that in
one borough alone has there bean a diminution, and that
of one voter only.--( Cheers and laughter.) I find, in
Dublin, there are 17,347 voters, 10,885 of them 101.
householders, a species of voters that were wholly created
by the Reform Bill; in Cork, 8,164 ; in Belfast, 4.156 ;
the total number of the thirty-two boroughs is 55,530--
37,000 of wnom are 10/. householders, and I may add,
that there is not one constituency in Ireland that does not
exceed 200 voters. I may be told that this paper is not
worth anything—(Loud cheers)—you have been calling
for this paper day after day—it has been laid upon the
table at your request, and finding that it does not bear out
your own arguments, you repudiate it—(Cheers)—you
turn round upon me, and say, this paper is good for no-
thing—if it proved your own case you would have been
ready enough to have acted upon it--( Hear, hear)__
but now that it shows the fallacy of your arguments
you want to repudiate it as unworhy the at-
teution of the House. I have no doubt it contains
many double eatries.—(Hear, hear.) I have no
doubt, also, it contains many fraudulent aed fictitious
vetch ; but what shall we allow for them? Shill we say
20,000 for them. Let me do so, and still you have a re-
gi ter far exceeding that of 1832. Let me also call to
your attmti in to the fact that the register of 1832, when I
made my calculations of the constituency being 52,000,
was fifty years old ; and that, of course, there would upon
that r gister be many more deal men—many more cases
of ree.eval, and other bad votes. Before you proceed to
art upon the assumption of a great diminution in the Con-
s ituency, you should introduce a registration that will
purge ie No, sai l the Noble Lord, you shall not have
that. We will not rate: the incorrectness. We tell you
that the constituency of he land has diminished ; and
before we give evidence to show t;;at fact, I call upon
you to alter the qualification, while we retuse the mewls of
corrcc ing its errors.—( Hear, hear.) Sir, lam sure
the House will be glad to hear that I am come
to my last objection. I object to the Bill on
account of the principle on which t. is founded. I object
to the qualification not being founded on profit but rating.
object to the qualification as being professedly under no
valuation whatever, and I object in the strongest terms to
the amount of value you propose to attach to the franchise.
Sir, i have not heard a single reason why the franchise
should be reduced from 10/. to 51. Were these a greate,.
'lumber of freeholders in the to.vns deprived of that frac-
chiso than in England ? (Yes.) An Hun. Member says
yes ; but I ask him to prove that statement—where are his
documents to establish it? It is for Hon. Members on the
other side, who wish to alter the franchise, to show the
necessity for it. On what ground dues the Noble Lord
hope to induce the House, without any knowledge of the
arriouut of the constituency, to say that every man, whether
charged with a heavy burthen of rent or not—every man
who occupies property which at any time was iaserted in
the late-book an being of the value of 3/. shall be entitled
to the franchise ?—( Hear, hear.) Sir, I ask on what
grounds the House is called upon to make this de-
parture from the usual amount of the fianclise. The
Noble Lord refuses his assent to a Bill brought in by the
Hon. Baronet the Member for Preston, to confer that
franchise upon the English borough voters, but does he
think that the 5/. householders in Ireland arc as a class

less subject to influence, more independent, more steady
and industrious, more thrifty and economical, than the same
class in England or Scotland.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble
Lord is about to introduce a fe .4/ unfortunate men, who,
under the dominion of a grinding landlord, inhibit a cabin
a ith an acre or two of laud, for which he is charged more
rent than he could possibly pay, hying decently.—( Hear,
hear.) It is a class of persons infinitely below the labourers
of this country—below them, and more degraded, I mean,
in point of station, education, acquirement, and indepen-
dence, infinitely below the labourer of England who de-
pends upon his labour for subsistence. in the report
of the Poor Law Commissioners on the subject of emigra.
lion, they state that in Is eland the, e is practically no
difference between them and the labouring classes, and
that as regards gratuitous emigration the farmer is quite
as much entitled to the compassion of that Government as
the labourer. And yet the Noble Lord says that out of
this class every man rated to 51. should be entitled to the
franchise. Sir, I hope the House will permit ins to read
one more passage, and it is from the evidence of a
Roman Catholic gentleman, and a Magistrate of
Kilkenny, with reference to the arrears of tithes.
(The Noble Lord here read a passage from the evidence,

in which it was stated that the class of farmers holding
from 10 to 15 acres of land were for half the year in a
state of the greatest destitution, having no means of mee--
leg their demands after their crops were soli', and that
potatoes without milk was the general diet, and they thought
they were lucky. That, under the most improved sstein
of management, they could not make more than double their
rent). This is the state of the farmer with 10 or 15 acres,
paying from 20s. to 30s. an acre fur the land which he
occupies. It is a rent which a solvent tenant in this coun-
try could pay, and it is on the lowest estimate of this de-
scription of persons, rated at three-times the amount of
these parties, that the Noble Lord is preparing to give the
franchise. Why, Sir, for silod's sake, let us not make a
mockery of the franchise. Lit us by legislation, if pos-
sible, relieve these poor pe)ple—let us try by Puor-laes,
by emigration, or by some other means, to place them in
a better situation. Let us endeavour to relieve their phy.
sical wants. But when a man tells you that the gene al
situation of these people is, for four or five mouths of the
year, to be in a state of destitution—that it costs them the
most a ;intermitting and index igable industry to enable
them ~o pay their rent—don't let the House of Commons
tender to persons in such a condition the exercise of the
elective franchise—don't, above ail, go to the absurdity of
saying, while you hold a virtuous horror of a dependent
condition on the landlord, aid the present position of the
501. tenant-at-will in Eneland, you consider the introduc-
tion of a clause to that euicct in the present Bill should
excite your opposition—don't make such a mockery of le-
gis'ie ion as to confer, by way of forming an independent
constituency, the right of voting on men at the rate of 5/.
a year—upon men who were barely able to find potatoes
for the support of themselves and the r families great part
of the year—and to confer this right, too, without re-
ference to the amount of rent pall by them, which does
keep them in an absolute state of dependence,
on the landlord or on some one else.—( Opposition
cheers.) The reason for doing away with the rights of
the forty-shilling freeholders in Ireland was not that they
were a:"„Roman Catholic constituency, but that they were
a dependent constituency. It was because of the state of
life in which they lived. They were necessarily and ut-
terly dependent either on their landlords or on other in-
fluence. That was the statement made by Lord Plunkett,
and many of those who supported the disfranchisement of
the forty-shilling treeholdere. This was the ground on
which Parliament acquiesced in their disfranchisement—
that they Isere, from their station in society, incapable of
exercising an independent franchise. They, therefore,
deprive them of it, and by depriving them of it they de-
prived them of no real boon whatever, but took out of the
hands of the landlords the means of furthering their own
views, with a total disregard on their (the landlords)
parts to the parties whom they were controlling in the
exercise of the franchise. The forty-shilling freoholdera
were required, at all events, by the law to pos-
sess a beneficial interest over and above their
rent. But you, in the present case, take those pau-
pers who are required to have no beneficial interest-,
( Opposition cheers.) You establish a rate of but 51. a
year ; you take no security for their rent ; and those are
the persons whom you set up as an independent consti-
tuency—men whom every landlord who chooses to act
harshly may turn out as soon as they take a course
at an election which they (the landlords) may not
like. You take a class of men whose houses are not se-
cured against fire—whose persons are not secured against
violence—who dare not face the consequences to themselves
and their families of giving, on any consideration, a vote
which would happen to be unpopular to the majority of
the people.—(Oppos;tion cheers.) But the Noble Lord,
however, will tell you that there is a restriction which be
imposes on this class of persons; he says, I am told—
"St 11 there is a restriction ; they must have a 14 years'
lease." And this the Noble Lord seems to think a restric-
tion. It it a restriction, but just in the wrong sense—just
in tint point in which you should not have a
restriction, It is no restriction on the point on which the