The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-06 00:00:00

TELE SUN', LONDON, SATURDAYEVE,NING, MARCH 6, 1847.

THE RAILWAY COMMISSIONERS BILL.
Mr. MUN rz presented a petition from the directors
of the Birmingham, Dudley, and Wolverhampton Rail-
way Company a2ainit the provisions of this BilL
THE RAJA OF SATTARA.,
Sir DE LACY EVANS presented a petition from
Westminster, praying for an inquiry into the circum-
stances attendant on the dethronement of the Raja of
Sattara.

SPANISH DEBT.
...Lord G. BENTINCK wished to give notice that, on
.Monday next, he would present a petition from the
4- chairman and deputy-chairman of-the Spanish Bond-
- huldeta' Association, asking the assistance of the House
to obtain redress from the Spanish Crown, in the matter
of a debt, which they stated was above 7,000,0004 ster-
ling, and which they alleged was principally due to
British subjects
PRESENTMENT SESSIONS IN IRELAND.
Mr. BOUVERIE said that, seeing the Right Hon. the
Secretary for Ireland in his place, he wished to inform
him that he had seen in the Dublin Gazelle sixteen pro-
clamations for the holding of presentment sessions in
different parts of Ireland. Now, he understood that a
'till was passed through the House providing a substi-
tute for the Public Works Act passed last session ; he
wished, therefore to ask whether those proclamations
were intended to authorise those presentment sessions
for the furtherance of public works as well as for the
Purpose of supplying food to the destitute Irish?
Mir. LABOUCHERE said, that as the Act which had
been passed as a substitute for the Public Works Bill had
Only lately received the sanction of the Legislature,
there had not been time allowed for carrying it into
effect. He could assure the Hon. Member that the
anxious wish of the Government was to reduce and ex-
tinguish the present system of providing public works
as early as possible, consistent with the peace of the
country and the welfare of the people.
Mr. HUME wished to know if any order had been
transmitted to the Irish Government upon the subject?
Mr. LABOUC HERE replied in the affirmative.
air- SPOONER gave notice that he should move that
the Petition from York against the compulsory Sunday
trains be printed with the votes.
HOLYHEAD HARBOUR.
Lora SANDON moved for certain returns showing
the name of the engineer who has been finally approved
of by her Majesty's Government, with a copy of the
Plans, the estimated cost of the same. together with the
names of such engineers and nautical men as had been
consulted and approved of the same.
Mr. COOPER stated that these returns had already
been laid upon the table of the House.
PUBLIC WORKS (IRELAND).
Mr• BOUVERIE wished to know the course to be
pursued by the Government with regard to the public
works in Ireland. If he remembered rightly, a short
tame ago there was a letter addressed by the Lord-
entenant to the relief commissioners, suggesting that
the Public works should be effectually, but gradually,
suspended. He wished to know if any suspension of the
Public works in Ireland had taken place.
Mr. LABOUCHERE could only give a general
!Iswer to the question. He had no doubt that some of
tae
public works had already been suspended. It was
'an desire of the Government to close as speedily as
Possible the system of public works in Ireland.
ARREARS OF RATES (IRELAND).
Lord DUNCAN wished to put a question with re-
Peet to the Castlebar Union. A letter had that morning
bean circulated, written by Mr. Otway, dated Feb. 11,
1847, stating that two-thirds of the rates in arrear for
that union were due from solvent parties. He further
sated that a rate had not been struck, and he impresses
thel' necessity of the Gcvernment making advances on the
security of these rate.. Ile wished to ask if it W2S the
intention of the Government to make any such advane, s
of the public money, and what steps were to be taken to
!aforce the collection of the rate from the solvent lessors
Irurn whom they were due?
Sir G. GREY said, that with regard to the first
question of his Noble Friend he had no additional infor-
1113ti°o to give beyond that which was already before the
°use. With regard to the latter part of the question, he
Would refer his Noble Friend to the 20th page of the
Papers to which he had referred, where he would find that
~,P.l°.,eeecii.ngs had been instituted by the Commissioners,
with a Vim to thr. enforcing the payment of the rates in
arrear, L ,
0) the lessor.
Mr. ESCOTT wished to know if Lord Lucan had paid
"le rates due from him, and if not, whether he would be
excluded from his right to vote ?
Whom Sir GEORGE GREY said that the Noble Lord to
the Hon. Member referred was then in Ireland.
he had Placed on the table of the House papers in which
had expressed a strong opinion as to his liability to
11: Payment of those rates. He (Sir George Grey) had
doubt, that if the Noble Lord found that he was
"It: for those rates, he would at once pay them.
w...°1 • P. SCROPE asked if the Right Hon. Gentleman
was Aware that the Government bad advanced large
„n 1,4. the
UrtVan rotes not having been paid up regularly, in
G Sir union ?
read GREYth„:, said that, if the Hon. Member had
attention
We ion
indisposT e
Ifers that had been laid on the table with
would have seen that there was no
'4l exonerate the rate-payers at
eaPenie of .2_
tne Treasury, but the utmost
exertion be made in the collection of the rates.
leit, would wouldppear that there was a power invested in
Lord-Lieutenant to advance money to prevent the
closing of Workhouses, and the distress that would ensue
111_ consequence. The Cavan Union had no particular
Volta to favour, and would form no especial example,
'op the Lord-Lieutenant would exercise the same dis-
Non with respect to other unions as that which had
"fah exercised with regard to Cavan.
,Mr.•HUSIE inquired whether there would be any
gisposition on the part of the Government to piss a re.
Solution to the effect that no more money should be
advanced for the relief of any union than was obtained
by the collection of the rates.
-Sir G. GREY did not quite understand the question,
taut he might remind the Hon. Gentleman that there was
ts distinct motion on the papers of the House, and when
that came on for discussion the whole of the details

mould naturally be brought under the attention of the
Souse.

CRACOW.

Mr. STUART WOliTEili wished to ask a question
of the Noble Lord opposite as to whether any arrange-
l!ent had been. especially entered into with respect to
I." convention between this country and Russia in 1831,
Vid whether he had any objection to lay the papers on
the table.
beLord J. RUSSELL—The discussion would be re-
wed on Thursday, when he would then answer the

SALE OF SPIRITS IN CANTEENS.
On the motion that the House go into Committee on
the
.m ft,
ance Estimates,
..,Colonel LINDSAY rose to more, that an humble
bstlre_bes:
bepresented to her Majesty, praying that she
:
graciously pleased to direct inquiry to be made
the effect that the present canteen system has
74 the m and whether it would not be advan-
tiltu are
to discipline,
c- l ine, and to the moral improvement of
47,..041jesty's troops, to prevent the sale of spirituous
Imors
eanteell
1414
within the precincts or proximity
!,1, to
In making this motion,
hecaire
todo his duty in that House and to the country.
kentld not wish to offer any opposition to the Govern-
tome' on the contrary, he thought he could t
throw out
anlo,2tlggestion which might lead to a reduction in the
the required for the estimates. It appeared that
eantBtlin of 65,000/. was derived as rent from the
of -"Ill and svashiri, the sheets. The total number
C4l Jen, including the artillery, in the British
41(k II" was 119,662. Excluding. the artillery, the
)ntit derived from washing the sheets was 11,8961.45.,
14,,eh, deducted from the total sum of 65,739./., would
as derivable from the canteens the sum. of 53,643/.
tk)tsi,eatiteens were usually let for a period of three years
ch,'",,e highest bidder, provided he was a person of good
e cite*. The tenant had also to pay a fixed sum. for
111'021114n in the barracks, including also the men in the
test-41, married men living out of the barracks, and who
then, ()eculiied the barracks except when on duty, and
ttill,',ll(3t allowed to go into the cante.ene.,smileenwtsawshaalsto.
eyer',,,,llPon to pay all taxes, rates, and. ass
that' he result of this male of letting the canteen was,
eYeot,ne person who occupied it was obliged to
be
most
'ie,Varit in his charges. This was nohtethoe
rf,aiunlatn(cie
the the
Go in command, nor the fault
It Go
but it was the faultt)foftthose whose duty
'4.'(lrsd-r0 bring the subject under the notice of the Board
open forthrough
/) "%nee the usual and regular channels
the titularly that purpose. :Sow,subject he wished par-
u-ir 0- under the notice of the Government
ld --aat ja these canteens spirits were licensed to be
tltte ei:4 well as other articles, and the clociusoe-
r,,slitll4-ti °I that license was the general
barracks.t demo-
The e:)11 of the men living in the
the G„--teen man had to give such an enormous rent to
Pay hi'veranient for the premisies he rented, that to re-
-4144;131110f he was obliged to lay an extra price on the
he Cold. His object in bringing forward this
conCu,„l"4 that spirits, as an article of
"ray —1',113,4 in these canteens, might be done
with. He had sown experience in military
and l'ecrui7 and he invariably found that the young
ti; "5 seduced to these places by the old soldieirls,
Inper. e enilsequenca was that evil habits were gradula y
b Induced, and the young soldier in a short time
e;tl,4le a confirmed drunkard. He, therefore, complained
tio,e4e facilities which the canteen presented for this pur-
Sedu:..
`litB Pre:Cheity to the barracks, and its placing the
00„.rri ve temptation constantly before his eyes. When
Pley-Inent first constructed canteens, lie admitted that
kttv good object in view ; and as somebody must
sidered Profit on the vari,us articles sold there, they con-
dde tai7,ll` as well have the profit as any one else.
teens .(1 think that 'the distribution of spirits in the can-
-444, Was most objectionable, and there would be many
Fc`a(h, vent's' banks warrants, and warrants for good
atie;" issued, if it was clieckl It was perhaps notlthiehn' but there was an order in existence,
q give to the commanding officer the power
restrictin' • of spirits in canteens,.
ere thp ~,Leillconduct of
th,! e May deem it advisable from the
asaike,,n• But this was a privilege of which they
.never
Th, themselves, as they did not like to exercise it.
Uffice earlt(!en
'nett gave large sums to obtain the
t4etr and there were some canteens in the
terl (" rliS Where the average expenditure of every
14,1
‘ither3, exceethed de thirteen shillin,,s per mo ;
(jw.varied in amount of money,'but it nevernth was
lui aolitren or eleven shillings. The canteen was a fruit-
veQ°f crime, and touch of the irregularity and
/f discipline that prevailed might be traced to it.
the Inn rin were to be found in a state of drunkenness,
ap.)4 17'eorrunissioned officer dare not lay a hand
soidull, but must wait until a police-officer or a file
Baborriile's, carte to his assistance. The acts of in
t'veldnr;lattua generally happened at roll-call fn. the
et14(,,u,,. Parade, when the nlm. were in a state of drunk.
out „f'aa4nd assaulted their superiors. Now he found that
in the 'rporeal punishments which had taken place
8463.
sirnw
J last year, 139 of them were fur acts of in-
for tlation connected with drunkenness, and 70 more
"4"uelitnuess alone, making a total of upwards of 200

for offences connected with drunkenness. In those regi-
ments which-came from India, where, and in the West
Indies, drunkenness was known to be more intense
and violent, it was a fact that corporal p mishments
were more nu:nerous than in any ether corps.
In the returns it appeared that from one regiment which
came from India the punishments were 17 in number, in
another they were 20, and in one which came from the
West Indies there were 18 punishments during the year. So
inveterate was the habit of drunkenness in the West Indies,
that it was known that the men mixed Cayenne pepper
with their spit its, in order to give them additional pun-
gency for the stomach, and it was also well known that
the drunkenness which arose from drinking spirits
in canteesns was always more violent than that which
arose from taking the spirits bought out of them, no
doubt, from the deleterious substances mixed with them.
Such a system as that, by which large profits were
raised from the moral turpitude of the people, was a
system which it was the duty of the &worriment
seriously to consider and endeavour to put a stop
to, even though they should be compelled to give
up thereby some small portion of the revenue
which they then derived from the canteens.
He enl not expect that any immediate improvemsnt
would take place, but still it was the duty of the Go-
vernment to adopt some general mode of improvement,
some mode by which the facilities of the young
s ;idlers to obt tin spirituous liquors veduld be
taken away, the o'd soldiers prevented fruee
seducing tee young to spend their in, -nay
at such places, and the habits of both the young
and the old soldiers improved. And this, in his
opinion, could be only effected by prohibiting the
selling of spirits in any of the canteens.--(Hear, hear.)
Besides, all this drunkenness and de b lechery lead to an
extensive invalid system, and hence the cost of that sys-
tem was more than would be saved by re forming these
Asses. The habitual drinker was also an
expense to the country. The habitual drinker
was the man, when drunk, who made a con-
stant practice of drielcing his glass at the canteen,
and was always in a state of false excitement. He never
was reported tis a drunkard, and yet this man was a
source of far more expense to the country than
the habitual drunkard, because the constitution
of the one fell befure that of the other.
All military officers agreed that, on the whole, the can-
teen system should be aboliehed. as the most effectual way
to put an end to crime was to undernsineit. The first
authority he would mention was one which they would
consider of some weight. The present Governor-
General of India, Lord Hardinge, in his evi-
dence before a Commission said, that before he
left the Ordnance, he had a minute under
his consideration, with a view to put an end to this
system, which he considered a species of tax
upon the soldier. The present Adjutant-General,
Sir John M•Donald, entertained the same opinion,
and commanding officers in general considered that
these canteens were a nuisance instead of a benefit
to the soldier. Sir Edward Blakeney was of opinion
that canteens should be better regulated, and let at a less
rate than they were. Colonel Smith said that if he had
his will be would not permit the sale of a single glass of
rum in any canteen ; and Sir John Campbell held the
same opinion. Bat he would also refer to an authority
upon which the House would be inclined to place reli-
ance. He alluded to Sir George Arthur, who had been
employed in every quarter of the globe, and that also
by the present and the late Government, he says, " We
encourage the soldier to drink a small quantity of
spirits, but we punish him for drinking a large—though
a small quantity disarms his power of resistance to the
large. The Gallant Officer then cited the testimony of Col.
Macdougal and Colonel Macgregor, to show that none
but a confirmed drunkard would take the trouble
to dress and go oat of barracks to get spirits in a morn-
ing, as also the testimony of Dr. Ferguson, who had served
both in regiments and on the staff to show how inveterate
the habit of drunkenness would become, and what hard-
ships the men would undergo, and to what abomina-
tions they would descend to get spirits when it was once
formed. Dr. Ferguson, who is now high in office,
had further stated that beer would not intoxicate a man
without the admixture of spirits. Was it not then a
bounden duty, ms the part of the Government, to remove
this temptation from the reach of the men.
He justified in bringing this
therefore thought himself
motion before the House, especially as ho thought that
of late a great portion of that power which formerly
belonged to commanding by fear had been removed, and
that corporal punishment was also considerably reduced,
he felt justified in making an appeal to the Beard of
Ordnance, and through them to the Chanceller of the
Exchequer, o y
some of their income deri-
vable e
vacconditionp
thesecanteens,elof the service, e r
vc
andie
and raise d
uco n e theconduce
o
moral
materially to its efficiency.—(Cheers.) The Hon. and
sbilael andf r
emt
Gallant Member concluded by moving the motion of
which he had given notive.
Mr. FOX MAULE said that he did not for a moment wish
to defend the system pursued to a great extent in the canteens
of the different barracks throughout the country, which had
been alluded to so forcibly by the Hoe. and Gallant Officer a ho
had just sat down. But he must be allowed to say that the
remedy proposed by the Gallant Member, although founded
upon the best of principles, would not, he feared, be very easily
carried out. It would net, perhaps, be disagreeable to learn
that the minds of the authorities had been already turned to the
consideration of this question, and that they were at this mo-
ment considering in what way the canteens could be put upon
a better footing, so as to form a part of that system
of general amelioration of the whole condition of the
soldiers, which both the authorities at the Horse Guards
and her Majesty's Government have sincerely at heart. It
will be remembered that the canteens, although attended with
considerable inconvenience when allowed to be put to improper
uses, were a great armantage to the soldier while in barracks.
There were many articles to be obtained in these canteens,
which it would be inconvenient, on many occasions' for the
soldier to have to seek without the walls of the barracks. And
even with reference to the sale of spirits, tl4 canteen was so
entirely under the control of the commanding officer, that, it
he chooses to exert his proper authority, and use a moderate
amount of common vigilance, many of those evils, to which
the Hon. and Gallant Officer hail alluded, might in ordinary
cases, be prevented; but still he was free to admit
that it was not easy for an officer always to
exercise the authority vested in him. He would not detain
the House by going into any of the cases mentioned by the
Hon. and Gallant Officer ; but he felt bound to admit, that
under many circumstances, the sale of spirits in the canteens
might be injurious, but the answer to that was, that total ab-
stinence from the sale of spirits might also produce evils in
another direction. The Hon. and Gallant Officer did not
trace the canteen to its original establishment. Formerly
canteens were confined to the sale of spirits exclusively, but,
they were afterwards extended to other articles. Their esta-
blishment for the sale of spirits exclusively arose from the re-
gulation of excluding spirits from barracks. That regulation
gave rise to the crime of smuggling spirits into the barracks,
and canteens were established with the view of doing away
with that offence. With these observations heloped the Hon.
and Gallant officer would not press his motion to a division,
but leave the subject in the bands of the Government.
Sir H. DOUGLAS said that it afforded him much pleasure
to know that the Government was disposed to take the canteen
system up, with a view to inquire into its operation, and to
remedy the evils which might be found in it. Much of the
present system arose from abuses that had gradually crept into
the system. In a command which he himself had, and that not
leng ago, a sum was paid for wine for the officers' mess, derived
from the profits of the canteen system. He believed it would
never be placed on a proper footing until both Government
and the canteens ceased to derive profit from the quantity of
liquor consumed in those places. He would throw it out for
the consideration of theißight Hon. Gentleman (Mr. F. Mauls)
whether these canteens could not be made a desirable and
moral adjunct to the barrack-roam, so as to become a place of
resort for a very different purpose than intemperance. He
would not, however, permit the profits of such an institution to
go either to the Government or to the canteen, but to be
spent in some wholesome and profitable manner to the advan-
tage of the soldier; and he thought if they were changed to
the fund system, and appoint a canteeneer to superintend the
institution in a moral and judicious manner, it would put an
end to those pernicious indulgences which he had long seen
and deeply regretted.
Mr. GOULBURN was exceedingly glad to bear the state-
ment made by the Hon. Gentleman opposite, but still he must
assert that the House were greatly indebted to the Gallant
(Meer for having given to the House the results of his expe-
rience and inquiries. Yet, as the Right lion. Secretary- at-
War had stated that the subject of can!eens was at the present
moment under the consideration of the Government, he would
perhaps act wisely in the withdrawal of his motion on the pre-
sent occasion.

C,,1,,nel ANSON quite concurred with the Gallant General
opposite, that any plan which would be likely to promote the
improvement of the soldier it was the bounden duty of the
Government to entertain, ant, if necessary, to pursue. But
he felt compelled to call the attention of the Gallant
Officer, by whom this question had been introduced
to the fact that so far back as 1838 the
Government of the day had expressly stated that they
were quite ready to adopt any suggestion which was likely to
prove of practical benefit. But it should likewise be remem-
bered, that by the regulations as they at present stood, the
commanding officer had full power to direct the canteens, as it
appeared by the regulations now in force. It should also be
recollected, that these canteens were taken by tenders, arid
not only was security given for payment of the rent, but also
for the good conduct of the parties by whom they were taken ;
and in the event of the orders not being obeyed, the occupier
was subject to ejectment.
Sir DE LACY EVANS begged to tender his grateful
thanks to the Gallant Officer for the pains which he had
taken to bring thi, subject before the House, a subject which
might not be felt to be of interest to the House, but which was
of great importance to the profession. He was also glad that
it was, according to the statement of the Secretary-at-
War, to be taken in hand by the Government; yet
he must observe that it was plainly evident from the extracts
which had been read by the Gallant Officer, that the corn.
mantling officers of regiments felt themselves in a difficulty as to
the direction of these establishments. Ile entirely concurred
in the proposition of establishing a canteeneer, and
it would be
much better if no property was derived from the canteen. If
a non-commissioned officer was placed at the head of the de-
partment, and taught to expect promotion if he conducted it
well, there would be a great advantage conferred upon the
army if such a proposition was carried into effect.
Mr. STUART WORTLEY said he was anxious to give
his tribute of thanks to the lion. and Gallant Officer for the
zeal which he had shown upon the subject. lie believed that
nine-tenths of the offences which were committed in the army
arose from the crime of intoxication.

The Earl of ARUNDEL said that he also felt most grateful
to his Gallant Friend :or the able exposition with which hit had
favoured the H iuse, of the ill effects of the distribution of
spirits in the canteen on the discipline of the army.
Colonel LINDSAY said that he felt most flattered by the
praises which had been been bestowed upon him. Having
called the attention of the House to the subject, he would beg
leave to withdraw his motion.
The motion was then withdrawn.
CULTIVATION OF THE LAND IN IRELAND.
On the order of the day being read for going into Com-
mittee of Supply,
Mr. JOHN O'CONNELL desired to draw the attention of
the House to the motion, of which he had already given
notice, namely, of his intention to bring under the con-
sideration of the House theadvisability of employing
the labouring population, now engaged upon public
works in Ireland, in the cultivation of the soil. The
destitution which prevailed in that country was frightful ; by
the last accounts which they had received, no fewer than
700,000 persons were weekly employed upon the public works
in Ireland. It was a notorious fact, that the arable land was
lying untitled from the want of means of its proprietors. He,
therefore, objected to this system of employment, as the works
would not be by any means oraduc tive of one half the benefit,
as the same amount of labetir would produce were it directed to-

wards the cultivation of the soil. The question, then, was,
whether it would not be better to turn the people to its
_cultiva-
tion, as it was at tie present moment so greatly neglected. In
France the amount of food destroyed was far more that ever
anticipated, and the French press held out gloomy prospects for
the future. The prospects of France were the general pros.
pects of the continent. The grand jury of Longford had passed,
a resolution calling upon the Government to employ the people
thus in preference to wasting their labour upon the public roads.
He understood that that resolution would be followed up by
others from the grand juries of the different counties if the
Government refused attention to the demand made upon them.
He desired to state that a Mr. Brennan, in the county of
Meath, seeing the deficiency of the cultivation of the land, has
offered, and given, premiums to such of his tenants as had cul-
tivated theirs. If the system which he proposed were carried
out, some assurance ought to be given the people that they
would be insured the fruits of their labour, as the crops would
be seized by the landlords. When the people were at present
spoken to for not having made some exertion, their excuse was,
that if they tilled they would derive no •benefit from their in.
dustry. If some Members considered this, such a scheme was
too extensive, they should recollect that the same amount at
present expended would suffice ; they should also remember they
could not retrench their present expenditure—such was the
enormous extent of the calamity which had befallen the country.
He was very sorry to see that a Noble Lord in another place
had been reported to have said that Ireland should look to
herself, and that she should depend iron her own exertions.
Now he was sorry to say . hat she was incapable of doing more
than she had or was doing. He considered that the expression
would be injurious, as it would indispose those who might
otherwise be inclined, and prevent them from extending their
aid should the necessity of the Irish people outgrew its present
extent. There had been same observations about economy,
but the people had nothing to be economised about • their
whole stock had been consumed, nay, even their seed for the
next year has been wanted to supply their present necessities.
Their heaps of manure had even been sold, by which
they had hoped to cultivate the soil. There has only
been ten millions proposed, to meet this fearful
necessity. He could assure the House that one-half rents
would not be paid this year. There had also been a great deal
cf talk of the amount of money at present lodged in the
savings' banks, and much clamour had been raised upon the
subject ; but what were the facts ? Why, the money placed
there had been placed, by those about to emigrate, and ex-
actly that very class whose loss would at the present pressure
be severely felt. But even more than that, the excesses of
Great Britain of money lodged in savings' banks ten years ago
was fifteen millions; at the present moment it was
twenty-five • so they might see that the amount of
money lodged there could not be 30 much. He
desired to express his heartfelt admiration at the charity
of England towards the people of Ireland, and in doing so he
would take occasion to observe that the House of Commons
ought to take some steps to enforce the expenditure of the
absentee rents in Ireland. While the resident landlords in
certain districts had subscribed about 15s. in the pound to •
wards the relief of the destitute, the absentee landlords in
many instances bad not subscribed above a farthing in the
pound of their rental. What he submitted was wanted in
Ireland was gradually to abstract the people from the public
works, and without breaking up the machinery in operation at
present, place the persons so abstracted to the cultivation of
the soil. By so doing they would remove all danger in making
the transition. If this were done he had no doubt but that
barony presentments would be as readily got for the cultiiation
of the land as for the construction of public works. Another
thing which he would suggest to be done would be a measure to
produce peace between the landlords and the tenants, and
to secure to the latter the value of any improvements they
they might effect in their holdings. There ought, in addition
to arrangements of this kind, to;be a law to compel; proprietors
of land to come and reside on their properties, so that the
rents which they receive instead of being spent out of the
country might be spent in it. By this step alone 5,000,0004
would be saved to Ireland every year. He hoped that the Go-
vernment would take these matters into its most serious cone
sideration as they were of the utmost importance to Ireland at
the present time.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said it must not be supposed that he
wassurprised at, or censured the motion of, the Hon. Member.
The condition of Ireland was so alarming that he was not at
all astonished that he should think it his duty to impress the
subject on the attention of the House. The Hon. Member
would do him (Mr. Labouchere) and the Government the
justice of supposing that if anything more than another would
have stimulated them to greater exertion than they had made,
it would have been the patient endurance of the suffering
people of Ireland.—(Hear.) The Hon. Gentleman had laid
before the House certain proposals, and he (Mr. Labouchere)
felt it his duty on the part of the Government to state distinctly
his opinion on them, so as there may be no doubt and uncer-
tainty in the matter. He would, therefore, in answer, say it
was not merely the duty of the Government not to adopt the
course proposed, but that it was impracticable and unprin-
cipled. The Government had already done that which no
Government had ever yet done before; it had attempted to
employ the great body of the people—a step which no
executive could take without risking the greatest risks and
abuses. But the Government had not gone blindly into that ;
they were aware of the evils and abases that might arise.
They proceeded to the employment of the people with their
eves open, because they thought it was right that they should
do so, for had they acted otherwise in the circumstances of the
country, a cry of horror against them would have pervaded the
land from one end to the other.--(Hear, hear.) But there
were various reasons into which at present he would not go at
length. Why, they could not proceed with the employment of
the people in this way. They were now employing, according
to the latest accounts, an organised body of 700,000 on I üblic
works, a fact unexampled in history, and here he would re-
mark that justice had net as yet been done to those who had
had the direction and superintendence of these works. Those
who had had the superintendence, had throughout their ardu-
ous undertaking shown the greatest ability, zeal, and spirit in
carrying out the arrangements of the Board of Works. Had
they not done so the greatest evils and abuses would have arisen.
Another, and a serious evil, threatened them. The time had
arrived when the soil required to be cultivated for the coming
harvest, and had they decided to go on with the public works,
the consequence would have been, there would have been no
one to cultivate it. But though the Government had deter-
mined to stop the public works, had they therefore abandoned
the people? No ; but they had introduced another system to
meet the state of the country. They had decided not to em-
ploy them, but to give them food. He would not say that this
would not be accompanied with great evil, and was a proceed-
ing also foreign to the functions of a Government ; but he said
of this, as be said of the system of the Board of Works, the Go-
vernment did not adopt it. 'They did not consider it free of evils,
but because they thought it freer of evils and abuses than any
tohtheerre.lieAf tcotmhemsitatienees time,
heeveekryanexyaretviodn
twhoautldmbigehtmabdeedbey.
veloped under the system now proposed to be adopted.
this gray
~tahyougmhightthebe slyiasbtelem food
could not, as a Christian legislature, supplying
Christian t o f ahoy,
andsn as p andl they
meni n,
allow pestilence and famine to spread over Ireland without
doing every thing in their power to relieve them. But the Hon.
Member wanted the Government to
go a stepfu'rth e
,and to
:
directly interfere in the cultivation of the soil. He (Mr. La-
bouchere) told him that it was impossible for the Government
to attempt such a thing ; or, if they did, it would be a deplor-
able failure.—(Hear, hear.) It would paralyze all individual
exertion. and would produce nothing in the country but evil.
For the Government, therefore to do so, would be to go en-
tirely beyond their functions. The same applied to the supply
of seed for 'grain. To supply such seed was a thing which no
Government would attempt to do, and it would lead to irrepar-
able mischief. With respect to the cultivation of the soil to
prepare for the coming_ harvest, that was a question of the
greatest importance. We rejoiced, however, to say, that he had
received intelligence from Ireland to the effect that the land
was in course of cultivation, though he regretted to says all
districts did not exhibit the same satisfactory results. Still he
hoped there would be no difficulty ou this head ; and he trusted
that the landed proprietors of Ireland—though he admitted in
many respects they had not the power to do a great deal in the
matter—would do every thing they could to assist their poor
countrymen. The income of the Government for the relief of
destitute persons, he had no doubt, would have
the effect of liberating the labour of Ireland, and that it would
be now employed in the propagation of the soil.—( The Right
Hon. Gentleman here read an extract from a report of Major
Fitzgerald, a Government inspector in the county of Clare, to
the effect that the people under him were gradually returning
to the cultivation of the land, and that in one week no less than
1,200 persons left. )—Such were the proceedings new going
forward; and he begged to state that everything would be
done by the Irish Government .to administer the new law in
the way best calculated to advance this desirable movement.
Now, a few words relating to absentees. While he knew that
same of those proprietors had done their duty in subscribing
liberally to meet the present crisis, others had shamefully
neglected their duty, and left the resident proprietors the task
of meeting the difficulties. He must say, that at the present
time Ireland was the proper place for Irish landed proprietors
to reside; but, at the same time, if public opinion would not
induce them to live there. he did not think a resolution of that
House would have the effect. Respecting the law of landlord
and tenant which had been referred to, a Bill, as already inti-
mated, would be introduced into the House on an early day.
He would not longer tre,pass on the House, but conclude with
assuring the Hon. Member that the state of Ireland would re-
ceive the anxious attention of the Government, and if they did
not take his suggestions, it was because they did not think they
would tend to the improvement of that country.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. SHAW quite concurred in the opinion of the Right
Honourable Gentleman the Secretary for Ireland, that any in-
terference on the part of the Government would tend only to
paralyze the exertions of the people without producing any really
beneficial result. He feared, however, that some evils might
arise from suddenly throwing out of employment the great
number of labourers employed on public works, and upon
whose exertions were depending for their maintenance, on a
moderate calculation, 3,000,000 persons. He had received se-
veral letters from Ireland upon this subject, stating that greater
abuses would, no doubt, take place under the proposed mode
of relief than existed even under the Labour Rate Act, in
consequence of the greater temptations which would exist for
fraud upon the parts of the persons applying for re-
lief, He hoped that the Government would adopt
speedy means to render the transition from the one state to
the other as little injurious to the interests of the people
as possible. Difficulties must, no doubt, exist under all modes
of relief, but the only alteration the Government could adopt,
was either to submit to these difficulties, or to allow the people
to starve.
Mr. BELLEW thought that an efficient poor-law would be
the best possible rernedv for the evil of absenteeism, justly
complained of by the Right Hon. the Secretary for Ireland.
With respect to the public works, he did not think that they
had been so entirely useless as they were supposed by some
persons to have been.
Mr. FITZGERALD thought, as the present was the
sowing season in Ireland, the Government should do
something, in the present state of the country, to
assist the people of Ireland to obtain the necessary
seed, and encourage the people in the cultivation of
the land. He most cordially concurred in the opinions ex-
pressed by the lion. Member for Kilkenny (Mr. O'Connell),
and he hoped that the Government would yet see the neces-
sity of adopting the suggestions of the Hon. Member. He
thought it a most unfortunate thing that the question of sup
plying teet to the people of Ireland, had been mentioned at all
by the Government. In his own experience, he had known
instances of persons hiving consumed their seed,
of many i
trusting to Government for a fresh supply. He thought that
some strong resolution should be passed b y b othHouses of the
Legislature, and
I headed by the Sovereign herself, imploring or
commanding the absentee landlords to go anti live in Ireland;
and there by their bane-
at all events until the next haryest,
volenee and example, assist in raising the condition of the people,
and removing the enormous burden thrown upon the nation.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL was quite willing to follow the
opinions which had been
and he could s •
expressed before,
for the Government that they were willing to abide by the
question which had been raised by the lion. Member for Kil-
kenny ; but he must distinctly say that they
were not inclined
to undertake the tillage of the land ; and they were quite
ready to follow the strong warning rvhiclt that lion. Member
hail given to them. When last year the sum of 50,0001. were
distinctly
asserted the country, it was
voted for the improvement o
asserted that it was of little use. lie had hoped that sum,
which he knew was only applicable to particular cases,
would have at least sufficed for temporary benefit
'out a Noble Lord had told them that all the b enefft
that would accrue was only a monetary relief, for it
would only suffice for the purchase of '25,000 quarters
of oats. He deeply regretted to hear that the farmers were
not prepared with seed; but he believed, from the inquiries he
had made, that tillage would be more extensively roamed than

was generally supposed, and that tillage would go on as soon
as the proper season arrived. He would ask if these changes
were to be adopted, what was to become of the army of 11,000
auditors now engaged on the supervision of the public works?
Not ten times that number would suffice for the purpose. He
believed that the tillage would be extensively resumed; but he
founded his hope on the presumption that no false impressions
would be spread of the amount of assistance to be derived from
this country.
Mr. HAMILTON thought sufficient justice had not been
done to the officers of the Board of Works in Ireland. When
they recollected the gigantic task which those gentlemen had
to perform, and that they had the management of 700,000 men,
and the order and regularity with which those works proceeded,
they would be satisfied that they bad a most onerous duty to
perform, anti would allow that it was well executed. It would,
therefore, be manifestly unjust to impose additional duty upon
them. With respect to the proposition that the Government
should undertake the tillage of the land, he quite agreed with
the Noble Lord who had just sat down, that it would be highly
injudicious on the part of the Government to undertake the
tillage of the land, for he felt assured that it would have a very
Paralysing effect. There would, in his opinion, be no necessity
for any strong or imperative measures either upon the landlords
or the tenants in Ireland. He mentioned this because he thoughts t
but right that other Members should share the responsibility of
these statements.—(`. Hear," from the Miniteetial benches.)
But there was one thing which he thought might be attended
to, and it was of great importance, because he believed that
many Hon. Members were not aware of the number of ac, es
that were out of cultivation in Ireland. This was very likely
owing to a certain extent to the practice that had lately occur-
red, of the farmers leaving their farms. In the west of Ireland
this was particularly the case, and he thought that some tribu-
nal might be erected for arbitration between the landlord and
the tenant. Such a tribunal mig'it give, say six months, for
the opportunity (to the tenants) of retrieving their sroperty, or 1
at least give them compensation for the losses and expenses
which they had sustained.
Mr. B. ESCOTT was more and more of opinion the
longer he lived, that not only would the adoption of any ex-
traordinary measures for Ireland not be beneficial, but would
be absolutely injurious. The only two things that could, in
his opinion, be done, was, in the first place, to allow the
free importation of grain into Ireland, and the second was,
the adoption of a system of strict economy. If these who
were in the possession of wealth would set the example of
that economy. It was a well known fact, that if the. bran
were to be ground up with the grain, there would he an in-
crease of at least one-third to the farinaceous food of the
people, and would not only also increase it, but would
actually constitute a better and more wholesome food for
man. The consequence of this would be, that the dreadful
calamity with which the country was now oppressed, would be
to an immeasurable extent relieved. At the present time
there were large exports of wheat to Paris, and this very day
a large quantity had been sold for that purpose ati Mark-lane,
at 765. a quarter. The same was done last Monday, and by
a little management, all this out-going would be saved.
There then was sufficient reason for the adoption of the eco-
nomy which be recommended.
The subject then dropped.
DEFENCES OF THE SOUTH COAST.
On the motion of going into a Committee of Supply being
again read,
Colonel RICE begged most earnestly to call the attention
forf o r
theduring
present the
year last session,that
e t
ea ffin de i
weh
neatst:erie
tua srotgeoede,ttahnwadtooini
thatd the hheii:
of the Government to the important works which were voted
render the defences of our southern coast secure. It might be
alleged that the sum required estimates
couldtaken be
td
ill spared ; but it should be recollected that if large, it was
necessary, and great as it might be, was not larger in a whole
year than was now sent in one month to Ireland. The French
had, in this instance, set us a worthy example, for they had
been active for years past in protecting their coast. But
we seemed to have exchanged characters with them, for while
we were only talking, they had been earnestly at work. We
were proud of our naval superiority, and well had it been sup-
purted. Yet it should be recollected that even before the days
of steam navigation, that demonstrations had been made against
the southern coasts of England, and it attention to the state of
our defences was necessary then, it was doubly necessary now,
and he earnestly trusted that the matter would not be neglected
by the Government.
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY-ORDNANCE ESTIMATES.
On the order of the day being again read,
Sir HOWARD DOUGLAS, for himself and his Gallant
Friends who had given notices of motions, begged to postpone
them to some future day.
The House then went into Committee, and
Colonel ANSON said, that in rising to bring forward the
Ordnance Estimates for the year, he felt proud to notice the
observations which had been made by the Honourable Mem-
ber for Montrose, who, he was sorry to see, was not
then in his place. That Honourable Member had last
year statekthat ha was quite willing to suffer the naval and
military estamates for the year to be proposed without a word
whtihche
proposition, he of observation from him, although the several sums were aa
largely increased. He ad this year thrown out a caution, in
it
w entirelyet the cdoontcyu
or concurred e de
vaenrty,
functionaryfullyr assentedo
f
to
Government, however large the sums might be at his com-
mand, to use them with the most sparing economy, and to
(Ci
Anson)
t that
bring every chargeswithin the smallest possible limit of practi-
cable economy. But economy consisted as much in the appli-
cation of the money used, as in the amount to be applied to the
purposes for which it was voted. And in considering the
great and extensive colonial;„empire now under the charge
of the British authorities, he conceived that a greater wisdom
would be shown in the conservancy of the whole by a judicious
expenditure, than by risking a part through too thrifty an
outlay. He could assure the House that the utmost endea-
vours had been used to arrive at accuracy in the estimates, and
if they were larger than last year, it was net from any desire
to avoid economy, but partly from the circumstance that the
last was an irregular year, and so could not fairly be compared
with this. The whole amount which he proposed for the
ordnance estimates for the three services was, 2,679,1271. For
the year 1846-7, it was 2,543,569/., showing a total of increase
this year of 135,5581. But if Hon. Members would turn to
the first page of the abstract, they would find that there were
three different votes—vote 2, vote 4, and vote 9—in which
there was a deficiency amounting together to the sum of
67,2991. So that the actual increase was only 69,289/. upon
the last year. The sum which he proposed to take for the
military ordnance was 673.239'; the sum voted for 1846-7,
was 579,670/., makiag an increase of 41,6911. on the year,
These items were to be divided between the engineers, the
sappers and miners, and the artillery. On the estimates for
the corps of engineers there was an increase of 5,5781, but
this did not arise from any addition to the force, but from their
having been worn out, and from their more constant employ-
ment ; and all knew that from the eminent position which the
officers and men of that corps were held in by the scientific
world, that their services were eagerly sought for wherever
their assistance could be obtained. He would pass to the
Sappers and Miners, and he must say that that body was corn- j
posed of the most efficient men. There was no increase in the
establishment. He now came to the Artillery. It was found
necessary to add 1,2:1) men to that establishment. They
had found no difficulty its getting recruits, but they had
_e
_
endeavoured to manage as economically H
as possible.
thought no gentleman would say that the increase was too
great, for, when he considered the extent of the colonies, it
must appear a matter of surprise that they should perform
their duties as well as they had done. The next vote
t
was for the commissariat d it
epartment. This year i
was proposed to grant 370,4641. The excess over last
year was in consequence of the increase in the
the price of fodder. The distress in Ireland in
some degree
also contributed to the increase. The actual increase was
only 12,507, and it should be remembered that last year
the votes were only for three-fourths of the year, while at
present, the estimate was for the whole year. The next
vote was for the salaries and contingencies of the ordnance
department at the Tower. He believed there was no body of
men more efficient. There was a decrease in the number of the
men employed, which was owing to the substitution of police in
the Tower. The next item to which he
would allude, was
for the labourers employed. The increase was owing to the
number of artificers that it was found necessary to employ in
repairs at Woolwich and other places where the same was re•
quired. The 6th vote was for ordnance stores. For that year
they asked 368,712/, while last year it was 396,10', anti was an
actual increase that year of 21,0)0c The estimate for shot,
te
shells, Bc., was 4,7311. more than that of last year. Thde nteoxt
rant for works at home and abroad, and it was propose gs6l.
for that purpose 632,763/. Last year the grant was 011 u
sailing vessels; but he thought they were vessels for
change had taken place by the substitution of steam
mand the actual increase for that earwas 22.709/. A great
bound to
it mfght involve
sures to secure their sea-ports, even though
cised a wise discretion in the manner in which they an increased outlay. He thought that Government bad exer-
cised a wise discretion in the manner in which the
, ybefore, ex-
in reference to this particular ; for, instead —they intended to
pending large sums of money on their colonies,
lay out large
employ them at home. It was thought right tooth.
They had
sums on such places as Sheerness and Ply
me
there were
also to expend large sums on barracks, of. which had acted
38 new ones established. From the list, which was very volu-
minous, it appeared there were 205 barracks
3 in England, and
750
e less than in
167 in Ireland. The vote for surveys was ,
ted that the Irish
the previous year. The Government expect Considerable
d. Considerable
Ordnance survey would be shortly comp
dried in Ireland
complaints had arisen as to the sum
be completed. The
for desiring that the Irish survey should ,
as compared to Scotland, but very
was 165 a 301.,
vote for civil and military non-effective service
geZe reasons existed
This vote would be accounted for, by the increase in
had
fallen that many departments had
military service, and by the fact,
oc • .ur He
which was an excess of .16,0001. over the
the
fallen into this estimate which did not formerly . .
service he would obtain in the artillery, and the advantages
he would gain in the obtaining additional forage.
Mr. WILLIAMS sail that they were called on to vote away seven
had also a right to set off against this excess, the
enadt,diatsiotnhael
bsetrast statement etikt te. of
Houset t e; Gallantan4 hrbeeesrt
occasion, and remain silent. He thanked
Mr. Hume, upon a former a comparative his Hon. Friend for furnishing
ctmhoiuelrlriesoewn,setr eohferomenllooynreet),w-,meannlgt(ylll-tdnuibleientgMotehreollow the example of his Friend,
not see the reason of
had been maintained. Ile could the increase,
explanation. If he was to go through the esti-
mates, had thereby a better means of jidging of the economy which
and he called for an
' but he knew, under present circumstances
every Stein ;
of 1.200 men.
House would pay no attention to the matter.
mates he would be able to show that a reduction could, hif,illvasadpeeirn.
Eerily useless. The Hon
being toe much
Sir HOWARD a
fram DOUGLAS,theOirdn answer to
ethpartthmeennton.Member, ob-
served that, so
increased. he considered it was still tar too weak. The various bat-
teries both of this country and tihnecrcoeasloenies, were not half Manned,
and he therefore rejoiced at the
when the people o
Mr. GOULBURN thought the estimate was not too much. Under
the circumstances of the country, it was necessary that this branch
ae ipnerelod
of the service should be as efficient as possible. He defended the late
ffice they had counte-
nanced any expensive or improper experiments.
ANSON briefly explained. The new barracks Colonel
possible.
Dr. would be completed as soonth astposs .
Dr. BOWRING complained at he whole of the ordnance
esti-
mates had been la
Government from aneyatclyhairngceretatstdwathil
this country were called upon to make the greatest sacrifices, in
order to afford relief to their starving countrymen. He complahled,
also, that the accounts were ma de out in the way they were, and
hoped that that would be the last occasion in which they would be
made out on such a plan. There were deductions for appropriations
and other matters; thus they were rendered unintelligible, and
Rare arrived at with difficulty. The mon . the
exact expend money ought to go
through the Treasury in the ordinary ensue.
After a short conversation, the vote was agreed to.
The following votes were then agreed to:-
617,239/. for allowances of the ordnance military corps.
370,4641. for the commissariat, including barrack
supplies. cloth-
ing, great coats, &c.
91.4441. to defray the salaries of persons employed in the Ordnance-
office.
228,1301., salaries and allowance to persons employed in the On barracks In the colonies.
137,852/. for defraying the cost of labour in connexion with the
Ordnance department in the colonies.
368,712/. tor Ordnance stores.
The stun of 632,7651 was then granted for the expense of the Ord-
nance barrack works and repairs.
Captain PECIIELL said that he observed a statement
" Times," that a high wall had been erected around the
Woolwich
in the
Military Academy, for the purpose of keeping the cadetf Voolwich
walk-
ing about the streets of the town. Ile wished to
knows from
any truth in the report. if there was
Colonel ANSON said that no report had yet been
made to the
House with respect to the Woolwich Academy. lie
recommended
Hon. Members not to believe all they saw in the newspapers.
(Laughter.) The fact was,.-that a palisade had been eireMpers. purpose of preventing improper persons getting
in,
but
for the
vent the Cadets getting out. not to pre-

The vote was then agreed to.
On the vote being proposed of 168,5321., for the purpose of defray-
ing the expenses of the non-effective military and naval services for
next year,
The House then proceeded to consider the nary estimates.
Sir H. DOUGLAS expressed his regret that the Government had
not taken measures to secure an efficient naval reserve force similar
to that which existed in France The whole establishment of the
French fleet =kited of 29,000 men, and they had euitbushed ieeta

at' the live principal ports. The establishments of the gun-
nery department at each of these five rorts, beside the
gunnery frigates, were such that they could put 6 000 men on board
at any moment. Never had any country made such progress
as France hail since the war. At the close of 1815 her commercial
as welt as her royal marine was completely destroyed, and yet never
was she in such a position of power as at the present moment. At
Cherbourg, L'Orient, Toulon, Marseilles, and Bourdeaux, she had the
most complete establishments, and the officials could put a most com-
plete armament on board at any moment, and ho trusted that no
false, no inferior notions of economy, would prevent the Government
from putting the navy into such a state of preparation as—although
we never would commit any offensive and injurious acts that should
lead to a war—would enable us to inflict in the first instance such a
dreadful blow as would give a whole turn to the contest.
Dr. BO WRING said that the Gallant General had held strange
language, for while he had been extolling the increase of the
French navy, he had altogether overlooked the advance of our own,
with which the advance of the French navy was, indeed, tardy.
Re did not hesitate to say, that as compared with the English navy,
it was totally in a state of weakness, and utterly unable to compete
with our own. He was glad to say that it was universally con-
fessed that the British navy was, beyond all comparison, superior to
that of any other in the world. What was the case? Why, while
the two successive Administrations had been gradually reducing
the burdens on the people of this country, the French Government,
on the contrary, were, year after year, getting deeper and deeper
into debt, until, after thirty years of peace, that country was so
deeply involved, that the Ministry were afraid to meet the
Chambers. Whether in political influence, commercial success,
warlike power, er financial position, there was no comparison
between the two countries.—(Hear.) He could not sit down
without adverting to a most admirable change in the dockyards
which had been made by the present Government, M hick was likely
to keep the navy in a still greater state of efficiency than ever it had
been before.
fir HOWARD DOUGLAS—Had the Hon. Gentleman read tl.e
pamphlet of the Prince de doinviEe ?
Dr. BOWL:, ING—Yes, certainly; and it was a confession of their
weakness.
air. WILLIAMS was not quite so satisfied with this increase of
the expense as some lloa. Gentlemen appeared to be. He found that
the esti nate taken for the whole of the cost w!s 5,661,0001., and,
upon a comparison with late 3 ears, he found that there had been an
increase of not less than upwards of 3,00e,0001., and that, too, in a
time of profound peace.
Sir CH ARLES NAPIER perfectly concurred in all that had fallen
from the Gallant General (Sir Howard Douglas). He did not, how-
ever, at all agree with the statement of the Hon. Gentleman
opposite (Mr. Williams)—(Hear and laughter)—because if they were
to taka his advice, the defence of the country would be impaired,
and perhaps an opportunity thereby afforded to the French of
passing 50,000 or 60,000 men into this country should they feel
inclined to do so. He wished to bear his testimony to the way in
which the Hon. Gentleman the Secretary to the Admiralty (Mr.
Ward) had brought forward the questions so interesting to the navy.
It had been admitted by every Secretary to the Admiralty, and by
every Lord of the Admiralty, for some years, that jobbing to a
large extent had existed in our dockyards. Now he sincerely
wished that the Hon. Gentleman had been authorised to go a step
further than his predecessors had gone; and, In addition to making
such au admissios, had issued an order like the one recently issued
by the Custom-house, which he supposed was issued by the permis-
sion of the First Lord of the Treasury. It stated that the friends of
clerks, employes, and others, making use of private interest for the
purpose of raising them from their different stations, would find that
a very opposite result would take place. Now he confessed he should
like to have seen a paper issued by the First Lord of the Admiralty,
stating that those connected with the navy must only expect
to attain promotion by their own exertions, and that if they
applied to Lord this "or " Lord that " for such is purpose,
that their progress would be effectually put a stop to.—(Hear.) The
n orkmen in the respective dockyards wanted better superintendence,
and this might be effected if the superintendents and ether officers
were strictly honest, which he regretted was unfrequently the case.
—(Hear and laughter). The mode in which persons were ;appointed
was pregnant of evil. If the names of three persons were brought
to the Admiralty, two of whom were Whigs and the other a Tory,
no doubt the Whigs would stand a far better chance of being ap-
pointed than the other.—(Laughter.) Why, it needed no ghost from
the grave to tell them that this was the invariable practice. ( air. Ward
dissented.) The lion. Gentleman shook his head, but the statement
was correct. The great fault of the management of the dockyards
was that a superintendent was not allowed to man his yard as a
captain manned his ship, and to discharge the men if they neglecte6
their duty. If this power were vested in him he would " keep a good
look out," and prevent a continuation of this jobbing. He (Sir C.
Napier) had been endeavouring for five years to impress the neces-
sity of a thorough revision of the dockyard system upon the Govern-
ment ; but he had never received any assistance in his labours until
the present session, as he found the Secretary to the Admiralty
stating that the " Government did not get a fair day's work
for a fair day's wages."—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) Then again,
the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Portsmouth (Mr. Baring)
admitted that many ships were not built in a proper manner, as mis-
takes had been made from time to time in their construction. We
had also the published statement of a gentleman who was connected
with the Admiralty during the late Administration (Mr. Corry),
that, " considering the large expense of building and preparing ships,
the most careful revision of the practice and proceedings
of the dockyards is urgently required, as much for the purpose
of saving expense, as for the purpose of promoting regularity."
He should like to know from the Secretary of the Admiralty whe-
ther those thirty-three iron vessels were in his opinion adapted for
war or not ? There was one other question also which he wished to
ask him. He was desirous to know if he intended to revise the
articles of war with a view to make them more humane ? In these
days of modifying and abolishing corporal punishment, he thought
the Admiralty should take this subject into their consideration.
Before he sat down he also wished to impress upou the Admiralty
the propriety of increasing the number of ship-carpenters in their
employment. The pay of this class of persons was so small that
they were obliged to employ joiners to carry on the works, and he
hoped that, as soon as a vessel was. out of commission,
they would lay on the table a statement of the expenses she
incurred while in commitslon, as he believed such an account would
be extremely satisfactory. If the Admiralty would follow these few
hints which he had thrown out, he had no doubt but they would be
attended with the best results. With regard to those iron vessels, i,
was proved, if they were struck with a shot, the effect was just the
same as if " you put your finger through a piece of brown paper."
Now, what would be the consequence, he would ask, if one of
these-vessels was struck with a 32 or a 68-pounder? If the Ho-
nourable Gentleman did not know, he (Sir Charles Napier)
would tell him, she would go to the bottom like a stone.
Capt. BERKELEY thought that the Gallant Admiral (Napier)
should not have alluded to the iron vessels, as the Secretary for the
Admiralty had already stated that iron vessels were not fitted for
the purposes of war. He himself did not think they were adapted
for such a purpose.
Mr. CORRY would only make one or two remark.s on the subject.
The Hon. Member for Wiltshire seemed to think that a good deal of
jobbing had been practised in the appointments in the dock yards,
but he could as-ure the Hon. Gentleman that while he (Mr. Corry)
was in office, no such jobbing was carried on. The appointments of
the late Government were founded upon the merits of the parties ap-
pointed, and not with the view, as the Honourable Member
would seem to insinuate, to secure sinister support. With regard to
the fitness of iron for steam vessels be would not contend that iron was
suite 1 tor the purposes of vessels of war, but with regard to vessels
to be employed in services of a general character, be entertained an
entirely different opinion, and in support of that opinion he need only
mention that he had received a letter front Captain Hosken, wherein
he stated, that had the Great Britain been mace of wood instead of
iron she must have gone to pieces long ago. Ile maintained,
therefore, that iron was the best material for constructing vessels
to be used for general purposes. When they said so much of the de-
fects of iron vessels, they should recollect that wooden vessels were
not able to resist the effects of shot, but they had often been burnt
from the shots fired into them. That was an inconvenience to which
iron vessels were not subject. It was said that a shot tired into an inn
vessel passed through one side and entered the other, but this Anti
have arisen from the slight scantlings of the iron, and the same con
sequences would result to wooden vessels, if made up proportionably
slight. It could not be denied, however, that if they were objection.
able as war vessels, they would make very good troop ships.
Captain HARRIS said that it would be most advisable that a sum
of money should be voted as a supplementary estimate, for the pur-
pose of raising the pay of petty officers, and that such a measure
should go pc:ripe/48u with secondary punishments.
Captain PECHELL desired to know what votes the Government
were anxious to obtain, as he wished to hear the observation which
the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir James Graham) intimated he would
make ?

Mr. WARD said that ho could 'not expect the House to enter into
the whole
Sir J. GRAHAM said he was afraid that any observations which
as
he might make in reference to this vote, and the paper which had
another opportunity
oufftatiresz estimates,t the House.
Gentlemen would have
.
been laid upon the table, would be of little value, because his expe-
s liesa s not
of of
tvueur y lat
patronagedate.
of
dockyards being monopolised by the Secretaries
of the Admiralty was altogether unknown in his time. In fact the
Brieutehhaeut the
mustßoard say of thteuaAtdmitrualety,
aSfteeerretthaerynto therm
Reform
Secretaries exercised no patronage, except in the appointment of
Act, and before he left that board, he could perceive the operation
of the right to return Members to Parliament for Chatham, Ports-
chaplahis.
Admiralty
for Hetwu said thatyears . h
upon
p
obnaathe held
ge netrahel eolffiecctelon of
mouth, and other places ; and he must say, that if these political
feelings prevailed further in the service of the Government, he feared
they must resort to the old usage of the statute in reference to their
servants, which was, that all who were employed in
the collectioil of the revenue, should not possess the
qualification of voting. He instanced the coast-guard as
a case nearly analogous to the present. Still, he thought,
this plan brought forward by the Admiralty was such, that
it ought to have a fair trial, and therefore he would give it
his support most gladly, in order that the experiment might be made.
If the experiment of the Admiralty fail, then he would most certainly
recommend the extreme remedy of disqualification.
Mr. WARD was extremely gratified at the favourable opinion ex-
pressed by the Right Hon. Baronet, and he could assure him that
everything would be done to g ye effect to the plan which he had
spoken of so highly. He was also of opinion that the officers in the
dockyards would co-operate in giving the plan a fair trial. Should
it, however, fail, he had no objection to the extreme remedy of dis-
qualification recommended.
Sir HOWARD DOUGLAS expressed himself in favour of the plan.
Mr. T. BARING begged the Right Hen. Member to be watchful of
the proposed plan, else he would find that he had only removed the
evil from the inferior to the superior officers. The greatest care,
therefore, was necessary, in order to give the measure a fair chance.
If that were done, a benefit might be realised ; but whether or not, he
had grave objections to the extreme remedy of disqualification
which had been recommended by the Right Hon. Baronet the late
Home Secretary.
meBnltls.3auharloatdu. defray
The vote was then agreed to.
The following votes were then agreed to:—
navaltheu
resumed,es tah establishments
report home.
The 25,5571. to defray some expense in connexion with naval establish-
the wages of artificers and labourers in con-
nexion
inwiLthse
was brought up, and or-
dered to be received on Monday.
DRAINAGE OF LAND BILL.
On the motion that this Bill be read a second time,
Lord LINCOLN objected to some of the provisions of the Bill,
and complained that its object had been slightly altered by the
Government from the one introduced by their predecessors.
The erect advantage contemplated by the Bill of last year was to
convert the instalments into a loan. The large proprietors would
have no great difficulty in obtaining these loans from insurance cony
parries. The small proprietors could not do so, for where the sums
amounted only to 4,0001. or 5,0001., there would be a difficulty ; but
when the sums amounted to 30,0001. there would, he conceived, be
no such difficulty. He would not be invidious and read the names
of the persons on the paper before him, but he observed that there
were applications for sums of 32,!;001., of 47,0001., and, in one in-
stance, of 70,000/. ; and although the grant was 2,000,000/., there were
applications for 700,000/. beyond that sum ; so that it was evident
that the whole of the money, if this system were to be pursued,:would
be absorbed by the large landowners. Then, again, he objected to the
term which was adopted of three years, for in England, there were
seven-course systems, and in Scotland four-course systems, so that the
money never could be repaid within the three years, and he would
therefore advise that they should at once be dropped, and take a
five year system, for that would be much better both for the drainage
and for the cultivation of the soil. Again, if the money was thus to
be expended, he was afraid that it would never prove of any great
value in promoting the general improvement. He did hope therefore
that the Government would give this Bill a little more
attention bef>re it was definitely passed through the House.
The Bill was then read a second time. and ordered to be com-
mitted on Wednesday next.

COSTSOLIDATED FUND BILL.

This Dill was read a third time and passed.
Mr. GODSON obtained leave to bring in a Bill to encourage per-
Sons to effect insurance on lives. The Dill was subsequently brought
in and read a first time.

The LORD ADVOCATE obtained leave to introduce the following
Bins :—A Bill to amend the law and practice in Scotland as to the
Service of Heirs ; a Bill to amend the law and practice in Scotland
with regard to Crown Charters and Precepts from Chancery; a mu
to facilitate the Transference of Lands and other Heritages in Scot-
land not held in Burgage Tenure ; a Bill to facilitate the Transfer-
ence of Lands and other Heritages in Scotland held in nurgage
Tenure ; a Bill to facilitate the Constitution and Transmission of
Heritable Securities for Debt in Scotland, and to render the same
more effectual.
Captain PECHELL moved for a return of all vessels that have
been purchased, since 1830, in the Royal Navy, including those
condemned under the Acts relative to the Slave Trade, stating the
tonnage and the price paid for each, distinguishing the amount
paid for the hull and for the stores ; also tor a return of the
number of boys of the first and second class for general
service received on board the several flag-ships at Ports-
mouth and Devonport, during the several months of August, Sep-
tember, October, November, and December, 1846, distinguishing
those who have not been entered under the regulation of the admi-
ralty memorandum of the 25th day of May, 1841, with the number
Aofgrbenedystsuo. entered, who have been supplied with slop clothing.—
The
sdoremainingadjourned
ato hrdLrl-
sropfastthoeudeaywewlueerk.e then disposed of, and the
House

SALE OF LAND IN TEXAS. Thursday, 16,273
acres of freehold located land, situate in Texas, under the
dominion, and in the southern part of the United States of
North America, were submitted to public competition, at
the Auction-mart, by Mr. Robins. The land comprised
nine estates in the counties of Harris, Liberty, Galveston,
and Bexar, the size being from 320 to 4,605 acres, all of
them surrounded with thriving farms, and from three to
eight miles from the capital city, Houston. The lands
located in the vicinity of Houston, &c., produced ss. 634(1.
the acre ; the unconditional certificates, entitling the
holder to select land in any part of Texas, from 320 to
1.280 acres each remaining unallotted, going at nominal
prices.
An order has been issued that an appeal shall be
lodged in the House of Lords against the decision of the
Queen's Bench, in confirming the sentence passed at Ennis,
of execution on Patrick O'Brien, for the murder of his wife
at ogee.—Limerick Chronicle.

ASSIZE INTELLIGENCE.
DOME CIRCUIT.—Hertfn-d, March 5.

....., -
It The as,;,es fur this county concluded to-day about one
o'clock. The following are the only cases that possessed any
feature of public interest that have been dispesed of during
these assizes.
CIVIL SlDE.—(Before Lord DEN/4.0t and a Special Jury.)
MILES V. 31118.RA.Y.,
This was an action to recover damages for an assault al-
leged to have been committed by Sir Robert Murray, a ma-
gistrate for this county. .
Mr. Montagu Chambers appeared for the plaintiff; and
Mr. Sergeant Shee was for the defendant.
This case arose out of an action that was tried at the last
assizes, and which has since been several times before the
public upon the application for a new trial. A man named
Beadel brought au action against Sir Robert Murray for
false imprisonment, on having given him into custody on sus
picion of stealing some fowls; and the result of that action
was a verdict fur the defendant. It appeared that, shortly
after the trial Beadel and some of his friend, among whom
was the present plaintiff, bad been regaling themselves at a
public• house in the village, near Sir Robert's residence, and
as they were passing by one of them blew a horn, and some
other discordant noises were made, and it was alleged that Sir
Robert had come out, accompanied by some of his servante,
and made attack upon the party, and committed the as-
sault complained of upon the plaintiff.
Lord DENMAN, in summing up, said he lamented that a
gentleman in the position of the defendant should have acted
111 the manner alleged, even although he might have re-
ceived some provocation. That was no excuse for an act of
violence from a gentleman who, by his position, ought to set
an example. of forbearance.
The jury, after a short deliberation, returned a verdict fur
the plaintitf.—D.rnages, Is.
His Loupsnw. subsequently, upon the application of Mr,
Chambers, certified that there was ground of action, so Elia/
the plaintiff will receive his costs.

THE QUEEN V. STUET.
This was an indictment preferred at the instance of the
justices of the borough of St. Albans, against the defendant,
who is a banker in that town, for a libel.
Mr. Sergeant Shee and Mr. Hawkins were for the plain-
tiffs; the defendant conducted his own case.
This action was also connected with one tried at the last
Assizes, in which Mr. Blagg, the town-clerk, and clerk to
the magistrates at St. Albans, was the plaintiff, and Mr.
Sturt the defendant, and he was charged with publishing a
libel concerning him. The libel was contained in a letter
addressed to Sir J. Graham, while Home Secretary, and
charged the magistrates and Mr. Blagg with some irregular
proceedings in. referencs to the examination of two persons
for embezzlement ; the latter particularly, as having acted
As clerk and professional adviser to the magistrates, and
also as attorney for the prisoner. The present indictment
was preferred by the magistrates for the attack made upon
them in the same communication.
After the case had proceeded some length, it was put an
end to by the defendant consenting to make an apology, and-
pay the costa ; and upon this understanding a nominal ver-
dict was recorded.

CROWN COURT.--(Before Chief Justice WILDE.)
Caroline Brown, aged 24, a good-looking young woman,
was indicted for the wilful murder of her illegitimate child,
oy casting it into the waters of a mill-stream, and thereby
suffucating and drowning it. ,
Mr. Hawkins conducted the prosecution, and Mr. Ryland
defended the prisoner.
From the evidence adduced it appeared that the prisoner
was in the service of a gentleman at Hitchin, as cook, and
for some time prior to the month of January there: had
been a suspicion that she was in the family way, but there
was no positive evidence upon the poini. On the 9th of
that month the body of an infant was found in a mill-stream
which ran at the bottom of the premises of the prisoner's
master, whence there was access to it by a gate or flap. It
appeared in evidence that there was a grating above the
spot is question, and the inference was that the child
must have been thrown into the stream at the place where it
joined the residence of the prisoner; and there were some
Other circumstances of suspicion, tending to fix the guilt
upon her, but the evidence was very far from being conclusive.
The jury returned a verdict of Not Guilty.

WESTERN ClRCUlT.—Winchester, March 4.
CROWN COURT.—(Before Mr. Justice WILLIAMS.)
George Pink was indicted for burglariously breaking into
the dwelling-house of Frances Covey, on the 24th of July
last, and stealing therefrom 2701.
Mr. Greenwood and Mr. Edwards conducted the case for
,he prosecution; and Mr. Cockburn and Mr. Massey defended
,e prisoner.
It appeared from the evidence, which in detail was of very
great length, that Miss Covey is a maiden lady, 85 years of
age. She lives in New-street, in the town of Basingstoke,
keeping one servant maid. The prisoner, who is a respec-
table-looking man, 28 years of age, lived as shopman in the
service of Mr. Barton, a butcher. Miss Covey and her
servant went to bed about 10 o'clock on the night of the 24th
of July; both of them slept in the same room. They were
awoke about two o'clock in the morning by some noise, and
instantly perceived a man standing by the bed with a candle
in one hand and a pistol in the other; they also saw that
his face was covered with something resembling a piece of
muslin. Although alarmed, they were enabled to take notice
of his dress, and they stated that he had not any coat on, but
that his waistcoat was of sach a pattern that they could re-
cognise it. The man said, " Money I want, and money I'll
have." The old lady wanted to get out of bed and attack
him, but the maid held her down and spoke to the man,
who said if she was not quiet he would blow her brains out.
The servant then told him she would give him her mistresses
money, and she hoped he would spare their lives. He was
then a little quiet, and then the servant took a purse from
under the pillow and gave it him. This did not satisfy him,
for he said that was not what he wanted, and he desired her
to give him the keys of the drawers. The woman was so
much frightened that she gave him the keys; there were
several purses containing money in the drawers, and among
that was a Queen Anne's sixpence. The prisoner having the
keys, went to the drawers and opened them, and took out all
these purses with the money. He then tied the hands of the
servant with a cord which he took from his pocket. He
then went away, but in an instant he came into the room
again, and told them if they did not lie still he would blow
their brains out. He then went out of the house. Imme-
diately after this the servant opened the window, and ob-
served the same man who had been in the room walking in
the street. She then gave an alarm, and a person who lived
on the opposite side of the street hearing it procured a police-
man, and, accompanied by him, went to Miss Covey's house.
They proceeded to make an examination of the home, and
found a back window open and a pane of glass broken.
'ley also found a hammer and chisel near the drawers.
Miss Covey and her servant gave a description of the man,
and particularly alluded to his waistcoat. in the course of
the morning the policeman went to Barton's, and in the pri-
soner's bedroom he found a coat and waistcoat and a pair of
trousers, and upon taking the waistcoat to Miss Covey she
identified it as that worn by the man who was in the room.
The policeman then examined the rest of the clothes, and
he discovered that one of the pockets of the coat had been
torn oft He then proceeded to examine Mr. Barton's pre-
mises, and under some sawdust he discovered a sort of bag,
which, upon inspection proved to be the pocket of. the pri-
soner's coat, and it contained all the property Miss Covey
had lost, and among the money the Queen Anne's sixpence
was discovered. In the privy they found several bullets and
a lucifer match-box. The hammer and chisel found at
Miss Covey's were identified as the property of Mr. Bar-
ton. They had been placed in the slaughter-house the
night before, and the prisoner was in that slaughter-house
about nine o'clock that evening. The mother of the pri-
soner lived next door to Miss Covey, and a chair had
been taken from the premises adjoining Miss Covey's, and
placed against the wall of her premises. Mr. Barton had
two other men in his employ, and they and the prisoner
slept in rooms outside the dwelling-house of Mr. Barton,
but the two men had to pass through the room of the
prisoner to go to bed. On the night of the robbery the
prisoner was not in his room when they went to bed at
eleven o'clock. A large dog was kept on Mr. Barton's
premises, and no stranger could have gone there without
the dog making a great noise. The dog. however, on
that night was perfectly quiet. A short time before the
robbery the prisoner had purchased a brace of pistols, and
on Monday last those pistols were found in a cess-pool
on Barton's premises. The cord which had been tied
round the hands of the servant of Miss Covey was stated
to be similar to those used in slaughter-houses. The pri-
soner was apprehended on the day of the robbery ; he had
only been married a short time before, and had intended set-
ting up in business on his own account. No one could have
got to the back part of Miss Covey's house but by means of
the chair put against the wall.

Mr. CoCxnuitN addressed the jury, and called several wit-
nesses on behalf of the prisoner.
The Learned JUDGE having summed up the case,
The jury returned a verdict of Guilty.
Sentence-15 years' transportation.
John Parry, the black, convicted yesterday of uttering a
forged 201. note, was sentenced to seven years' transpor-
tation.

NISI PRIUS COURT.—(Before Mr. Justice CRESWELL
and a Special Jury).
LANEASTER V. COUPLA ND.
Mr. Crowder, Mr. Cockburn, and Mr. Slade were counsel
for the plaintiff ; and Mr. Sergeant liinglake, Mr. Barston,
and Mr. Saunders for the defendant.
This was an action brought by the plaintiff, an ironmonger,
against the proprietor of the Hampshire Advertiser, for a libel
imputing to the plaintiff misconduct in his character of Com-
missioner of the Improvement Act for Southampton, relative
to making a road.
The Learned JUDGE characterised it as an extremely dull
case, except to those interested in the politics of South-
ampton.
The jury eventually gave a verdict for the plaintiff, with
40.4 damages, at the same time stating that they did not
consider the defendant was actuated by any malicious
motives.

OXFORD ClRCUlT.—Reading, March 5.
CROWN COURT.—(Before Sergeant GASELEI. )
CUTTING AND WouNnina.--Charles Smith was indicted
for cutting and wounding Jane Morris. The trial did not
close till one o'clock this morning. The undisputed facts
were these :—The prisoner, a young man, of about twenty-
two, was the son of a gentleman who was a respectable soli-
citor at Bridgnorth, in Shropshire, and a clerk to the ma-
gistrates there. The prosecutrix, a tolerably well-looking
young woman, twenty-one years of age, of small figure
and sharp features, and who gave her evidence to-day with
great firmness and presence of mind, was the daughter of a
Journeyman plumber and glazier at Bridgnorth. About
six years back they became acquainted with each other, and
about four years back a connexion commenced, the conse-
quence of which was that she became a mother. After this
event be went to live at Bury, near Manchester. She fol-
lowed him, and he took apartments for her at Manchester,
and supported her there for some months. After some time
his pecuniary advances to her began to diminish, and at
length he abandoned her without giving her any notice of
his intention to do so. After undergoing some considerable
privations, she learned that he was at Reading, and by the
assistance of an acquaintance of his at Bury was enabled to
follow him to this town, where he at the time had a situa-
tion in the tax-office. On her arrival hero, on the last day
of last year, she took a lodging under the name of Mrs. Smith,
at the house of a Mrs. Cray, in West-street—he lodging at.
the house of a Mr. Martin, at No. 26, in that street. They
met—their acquaintance was renewed—he visited her as his
wife, and they spent the night before the day in question
together at her lodgings. On the evening of the 20th of
six
January she found means to get into his lodgingsabout
o'clock, and stopped there till he came home. He ue
course, anxious that she should leave. She refused. was,
bickerings and reproaches took Place. At length, between
eight and nine o'clock, the people of the house suddenly
heard screams and cries of " Murder !"
They ran up,
rushed into the room, and found her lying on her back on
the door, at some distance from the fire-place, in a state of
unconsciousness, and bleeding pr)
fus,_ly from a wound on
the rif,ht side of the throat, and the prisoner standing at
her feet, in a stooping position,
lying on the floor, three or four yards ftoand facing
her, and a razor
mher left side
and the prisoner's right, bloody on the handle and the
blade, and the carpet near it stained with blood from it.
Surgeons were sent for, who dressed the wound. He
WAS asked how what was seen had happened, and replied
tchonatni9shtlehsr andre itherself. She, on recovering her
Dein asked wlie did it, said it was