The Sun.
London, England, 1840-07-28 00:00:00

vernment the proper one, and he trusted they would per-
severe in it.
Mr. HUME had been as anxious on this subject :is nny
Honourable Member, and had asked whether the Go-
vernment sanctioned the acts of their Superintendent.
From the moment the Government sanctioned those acts
he could not see upon what ground they could order the
merchants to give up their opium for the purpose of satis-
fying the Chinese authorities.—( Hear, hear.) If the
country desired to sustain its ascendancy in India, he
thought they ought not to put up with the insults which
had been inflicted on them by the Chinese authorities.
He thought the course pursued by the Government cor-
rect, and he trusted they would pursue it.
Mr. MACLEAN thought that the merchants of the
country had the strongest claim for redress.—( Hear.)
What was the case? If Captain Elliot had called upon
the merchants to give up their opium, giving them a
guarantee for their property, was that guarantee bind-
ing or not ? He did not say that the Government ought
to have come down to the House and proposed compensa-
tion, but he maintained that they ought to have entered
into the consideration of the case, to see wbat compensa-

tion could be awarded. He submitted this the more con-
fidently because the opium trade had been over and over
again recognized by Committees of the House of Com-
MOS& _

Mr. ELLIOT defended Captain Elliot from the
charges that had been brought against him. The Hon.
Gentleman quoted largely from the evidence given by
the witnesses who appeared before the Compensation
Committee, in order to snow that all the residents in
Canton were most thankful to Captain Elliot for the ser-
vices rendered them, and the protection he afforded them.
Lord SANDON and Mr. ELLIOT severally explained.
Mr. MUNTZ wished to put an end to a tiresome sub-
ject. The Hon. Member for Oxford had put an end to
the whole case. It was not morality that actuated the
Chinese—it was the exportation of Sycee silver. There
was an end of the morality of the case. He theught the
Government were perfectly justifiable in declaring war
against the Chinese for one single transaction—it was
that of cutting off the ears of Mr. Moss, and afterwards
thrusting them in his mouth. Any Government that could
not protect its subjects, did not deserve to rule.
Mr. J. ABEL SMITH was afraid that the conduct of
' the Government in refusing compensation to our werchants,
after the guarantee given by their agent, would throw
great discredit upon all Government officers abroad, and
cover Captain Elliot with disgrace. At the same time,
be thought the war was perfectly justified, and was, in
fact, one of mercy.,
Mr. J. H OBH OUSE thought the Government had
acted very properly by Capt. Elliot, because he had ex-
ceeded his powers. His acts in giving up the opium were
not recognised by the Government, because he was acting
under duresse—he was retained in his situation for the
very same reason.—The resolution was then agreed to.
Several other resolutions were agreed to.
On the vote for the London University being read,
Mr. HUME said he felt compelled to approve of the in-
tention of the University, but he must express his strong
disapproval of the manner in which its objects had been
carried into effect. He understood that its degrees
were to be open to all men, but no one was
allowed to apply for its honours unless he had
studied at a school or college which had previously
obtained the sanction of the Secretary of State. He
trusted the University would soon be thrown entirely open
to every qualified man. He must also complain of the
extravagance of its management. They gave their secre-
tary 1,0001. a year, and adhered to it notwithstanding the
interference of the Government, and at last it was very re-
luctantly reduced to 7001. Then again in August, 1838,
the Council resolved that examiners might be appointed
from their own body—that was a most objectionable prin-
ciple. The salaries paid to the examiners was most exor-
bitant for a new institution which was spending the public
money. By returns he saw that the examiner in chemis-
try was employed on twe days, three hours each, and his
sa:ary was 50/. Now, he certainly thought 251. for three
hours' work was too extravagant. Other professors were
equally extravagantly paid, and it appeared to him
that it arose from the Council having the power to appoint
themselves, and then fix their own salaries. However, he
thought the first objection was the strongest, and he
he trusted it would soon be obviated, and the
University thrown open to the students from all schools.
He did not intend to oppose the grant, but he trusted
that the Government would apply remedies before the next
year. _ _

Mr. GORDON said if there were any fault in the
Members of the Senate acting as examiners, it was in the
original constitution of the body, and such appointments
had induced some of the members of the Senate to ac•
cept the office. It was scarcely fair to estimate the services
of these gentlemen at so much an hour, when it was well-
known that they had to come from the country to attend
the examinations.

Sir IL PEEL said there must be some mistake in the
statement of the Hon. Member for Kilkenny. It wasim-
possible that the examiners should not only appoint
themselves, but fix their own salaries. He must say that
he had never before heard of such a large staff where so
little was done, and such high remuneration was given.
However, if it was true that they were allowed to fix their
own salaries, the country was deeply indebted to them for
their moderation.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
it was necessary to appoint gentlemen as examiners whose
character and attainments were such as to carry weight
with the public, and it was also to be remembered that
their labours would increase every year.
Mr. GOULBURN said the salaries increased in geo-
metrical proportion, while the students increased only in
arithmetical proportion. He thought if mere time were
given to instruction, and less to examination, the result
would be more satisfactory.
Mr. WA RB URTON said if Hon. Members wished to
see the number of students increased, they must throw
open the University to students wherever educated.
With regard to the number of examiners, those who
complained did not consider the number of classes in me-
dicine and other sciences. He agreed that the salaries
were teo large, and thought that non-professional men
were the best examiners. He thought the Senate ought
not to have had the power of appointing members of their
ewn body to be examiners, and Lord Monteagle, who
drew tip the charter, had said that he never intended to
confer this power permanently on the Senate. He should
be glad to see those provisions introduced into a new charter.
The item was then agreed to.
CHURCH OF SCOTLAND.
On the vote for a Hall for the General Assembly of
the Church of Scotland,
Sir R. PEEL said he considered it important that
the General Assembly should have the means of meeting
in Edinburgh ; but he would take that opportunity of de-
claring his extreme regret at the dissensions which pre-
vailed at present in the Church of Scotland, and he re-
gretted this exclusively on public grounds ; he respected
that Church for its usefulness, and for the services it had
rendered to true religion. He believed it to be well suited
to the country in which it was placed, and calculated to
secure that order and tranquillity which were insecure
unless based upon religion. He regretted that any por-
tion of the Church should be placed in a situation of dis-
sension on a question of civil right, which had been decided
by the Supreme Court of Scotland, and which had after-
wards been affirmed by the House of Lords. It was a
question entirely of interpretation of the statute law, and
no authority whatever was entitled to act in defiance of the
statute law, when so announced. Let them look calmly and
deliberately at the judgment of the Chancellor in the
House of Lords. He bad expressed the highest respect
for the Church of Scotland, but he said that taking all the
circumstances into his consideration, he felt it his duty to
affirm the judgment of the Court of Session, that on this
question of patronage the Church of Scotland was wrong.
and in conclusion he stated that he did not doubt that the
Church of Scotland would inculcate the sacred precept of
obedience to the laws. In Scotland constant reference
had been made to the collision between the House of
Commons and the Queen's Bench. But the ques-
tions were perfectly different. This, was not a question
as to a constitutional right of a body like the House of
Commons to interpret their own privileges. The ques-
tion was as to the interpretation of the statute law, and
no power resided in any body, secular or ecclesiastical, to
place an interpretation on it opposite to the one that had
been so announced. He did, therefore, deeply regret that
the Church of Scotland should lhave pursued any other
course than that pointed out by the Chancellor, that a
Church established by law should not have felt the neces-
sity imposed upon it by its station, and the paramount
obligation it was under of setting an example to the people,
by paying implicit deference to the law.—( Cheers.) He
could not see what safety there would be for persons or
for property, if any authority harbeen acknowledged of
ability to resist the interpretation of the statute law laid
down by the highest tribunal, and affirmed by the House
of Lords. He deeply regretted that the Session had
been allowed to pass without some attempt of her Ma-
jesty's Government to reconcile these pretensions. He
considered the right of the patrons to be unquestionable,
as was the right of the Church of Scotland to judge of
the qualification of parties presented to them for judg-
ment. An attempt had been made by a Noble Friend of
his to compose these differences, by the introductioh of a
declitratory Bill, and he was sorry that that Bill, which hap
received the sanction of an immense majority of the
House of Lords, had not become law. It was
founded on just principles, and he was sorry the Church
of Scotland had not taken an active part in its support.
If it had come under consideration in that House, 'however
impolitic such a declaration might appear, still he would
say that it should have) had his: cordial conurrence.
He had been invited to take another course. He had been
told that it would be for the Conservative interes to sup-
port the spiritual authority in Scotland. If that autho-
rity were just, he would support it ; but if he believed it
to be unjust, dangerous, and illegitimate, he would not
support it.—(Cheers.) He could not understand how
the Church could claim an ecclesiastical jurisdiction inde-
pendently of the law of the land, when the Church itself
was established by law. He earnestly hoped that public
opinion in Scotland would become more moderate during
the recess, and that the Church would look forward to an
early settlement of this unfortunate difference by Legisla-
tive ~enactment, if there were no other means ; and he
thought be saw indications of such a conciliatory course in
a most importantt declaration which had been issued in fa-
vour of his Noble Friend's Bill, which had been signed by
250 ministers and 1,000 office-bearers in the Church of
Scotland. It was couched in moderate terms, ani he re-
ferred to that as affording grounds for anticipating that
early next Session, they might, be able to come to Salle
settlement of the question.—( The Hon. Baronet here
read the declaration.) The question was now left in a most
perilous condition. The judgment of the Court was set
at defiance, ministers were suspended, and meeaces of
ulterior eropeequences were held oiunt.by Htheesheopwehdothwaetrethiins
course would nos persevered
opposition to the :say.s',s. was certain that no Bill con-
taining terms more favoural?lC tG the Church could ever
pass. The objections here were tbitt tLe terms were too
favourable.—( Hear, hear.) He could understand the op-
position of those who wished to curtail the Church of its
privileges, but he could not understand what the sup,
per,-
`..rs of the Church wanted in opposing the Bill, and
so he bas
those who bed called on him on the subject.
is
--(Cheers.) He
‘7..nutta con.2e,ive, passing that House