The Sun.
London, England, 1841-08-28 00:00:00

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PRICE 5(1

the same course, he should feel perfectly indifferent
whether the administration of affairs were entrusted to
the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies, or the
' Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth. But it
was because he saw a great principle at issue—it was
because he saw upon the one side a practical, plain, and
intelligible statement of measures to be laid before
Parliament ; and on the other nothing but vagueness,
absurdity, and mystification—that he preferred the
men who wished to provide for the deficiency in
the revenue and the wants of the people, to those
who were anxious to assume the reins of office, say-
ing nothing, promising nothing, and taking refuge in
a studied obscurity. He could not allow that opportu-
nity to pass without addressing a few words to the House
relative to the statements made last night by the Right
Hon. Gentleman the Member for the University of Cam-
bridge ; and lie hoped to be able to convince the House
that the Right Hon. Gentleman, who had developed his
own opinions with so much ability, had taken an unfair
view of the comparative merits of Whig and Tory Ad-
ministrations upon questions of finance. The Right
Hon. Gentleman had sought to assimilate the Right
Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer to Catafalto, or
the Great Wizard of the North, but he trusted he should
be able to show the House that the Right Hon. Gentle-
man himself was a greater conjuror still.—(Hear, hear.)
What had been the course of the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer ? Simply this : he had repelled a charge brought
against him, that for the last ten years one million per
annum had been added to the debt of the country. That
charge the Chancellor of the Exchequer distinctly and
emphatically denied. Now, it appeared to him (Mr.
Hawes) that the Right Hon. Member for the University
of Cambridge had not disputed one fact, one single figure,
laid befi pre the House by the Right Hon. the Chancellor
of the Exchequer ; but all that he did was, with great
skill and ability, to throw a good deal of obscurity and
mystery over the statement of the Right Honourable
Gentleman, for the purpose of leading the House to the
conclusion that in point of fact there had been no reduc-
tion whatever of late years of the debt of the.couatry.
flow stood the fact ? In order to make a fair compari-
son of the debt in the year 1841 and the debt in the
year 1831, the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer had referred to papers which had been laid be-
fore the House, from which it appeared, that in order to
ascertain the debt in 1831, he had taken the funded debt
from the financial account, and he had added to
that the value of the then annuities converted into stock.
Again, he had taken the debt in 1841 and added the value
of the annuities now payable by way of funded stock.
How had they arrived at the gross result that the funded
debt in 1831 amounted to 838,549.0001., while the
funded debt in 1841 amounted to no more than
815,957,0001. ? The sum paid to the West India Colo-
nists had been of course left altogether out of the state-
ment ; and he (Mr. Hawes) would observe in passing,
that he had ever opposed the grant of that sum. There
had been, therefore, leaving out the grant in question, a
reduction of the debt of 22,500,0001. and odd during the
last ten years. And he (Mr. Hawes) would defy the
Right 'Honourable Gentleman the Member for
the University of Cambridge to shake the conclu-
sions to which the Chancellor of the Exchequer had come.
He would not say it was an unfair statement, but he
would say there was a degree of bol bless in his denial
of the statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
that he had seldom seen equalled in that House.—
(Hear, hear.) And when he compared the Right Hon.
Gentleman to a " Wizard," and equalled him to the glory
of Catafelto, he by implication cast imputation on his
statement of figures.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Hawes)
could not think his allusion to legerdemain was altogether
a happy one, for he thought the statements of the Right
Hon. Gentleman himself were not entirely free from it.
—(hear, hear.) He would now proceed to another
point of the Right Hon. Gentleman's speech of no less
moment. He seemed to take credit to himself for his
views upon the state of the sugar market, and his sound
and accurate perception on that subject. The Right
Hon. Gentleman said, if he took the consumption of
sugar from the .sth of May last, he found a very large
consumption, and if he took it to continue at the same
rate—

Mr. GOULBURN.—I said, as compared with the
antecedent year. _ _

Mr. HAWES—He' would come to that directly, but
if it continued at the same rate through the succeeding
period of years, the consumption of 1841 would be equal
to the consumption for some years back. Now he (Mr.
Hawes) would, in the first place, take a retrospect of the
sugar trade itself. Before May, 1825, the Right Hon.
Gentleman knew very well, because the discussion in the
House at that time must have made him aware of the
fact, th:.!.t the alteration of the duty led to a stagnation of
the trade, and when a temporary settlement was come to,
the result was, that a spring was given to the market
and the consumption increased, because the dealers
bought and the consumers could obtain a supply.—
(Hear, hear, hear.) What was taking place in the
passing year would, contrary to all principles and
speculations on consumption, according to the statement
of the Right Hon. Gentleman, make him believe that
the consumption was larger because the labourer was
poorer. Now, it was well known that as the labourer
was obliged to expend more on the real necessaries of
life he would have less to pay for sugar.—(Hear, hear,
hear.) And such was the fact in this case, if they had
recourse to the amount of consumption.
Mr. GOULBURN—Butgive the prices. _ _

Mr. HAWS—He would give the prices also, and that
would make no difference. The price of sugar in 1841,
during six months, as compared with its price during a
corresponding time in 1840, was in the ona case 425. 10d.,
and in the other 445. ; so that there was little or no
difference in the price.—(Hear, hear.) If they took
equal periods of six months there was sufficient difference
to vitiate the conclusion he had come to.—(Cheers.)
They would find 1511bs. was the amount per head con-
sumed in 1840, and 13ilbs. in 1841 ; and it ought to be
so, because the more substantial necessary of life, bread,
was dearer in the one year than the other, and in ad-
dition sugar was an article which, if there was not a re-
gular demand for it, would go out of consumption. The
argument of the Right Hon. Gentleman was reducable
to, if he might say it in Latin, a reductio ad absurdum ;
it was an utter absurdity, because his argument was
that there was consumption, though trade languished,
commerce declined, and the people were discontented.
That certainly was a good specimen of the political eco-
nomy that usually proceeded from the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman.—(Cheers.) He said the reduction of 13i lbs.
per head in 1841, was a very unfair test of the reduction
amongst the working classes.—(Hear, hear.) In the
case of the higher classes the consumption was the same,
or nearly so. The Right Hon. Gentleman consumed as
much in 1841 as he did in 1840 or 1838, or any other
year, because no matter how high the price, his means
were adequate to purchase it, but such was not the case
with the poor man.—(Hear, hear,) Let sugar, which
may be regarded as a comparative luxury, rise in price,
and it will, like other luxuries, go entirely out of con-
sumption. There would be no means of purchasing—
there would be a total denial of that article as he would
show, if he might be permitted to occupy them with a
matter of detail.—(Hear, hear.) The consumption in
1840 amounted to 151-lbs. per head ; the consumption of
four persons amounted accordingly to 611b5., but the con-
sumption of a person in the higher classes was 37Ibs.
per head. Now, if the consumption of the rich
man represented by 371bs. be deducted, there
remains 241bs. only for the other three ; and
then if one poor person's consumption be subtracted it
reduced the consumption of the other three to eight
pounds per head.—(Loud cheers.) He said, therefore,
the statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman on this sub-
ject was no more to be relied on than any other of his
financial lucubrations.—(Cheers.) And from the Right
Hon. Gentleman, who had been so intimately connected
with sugar and other financial arrangements, and who
might b supposed to be a master of such subjects, to
hear such speculations not a little surprised and asto-
nished him.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman
then went into the subject of the timber duties. And
what was the conduct of Hon. Gentlemen opposite on
that matter ? Why they actually refused to go into
Committee on it—they put an estoppel at once upon the
subject.—(Hear, hear.) The Right lion. Gentleman said
they would not have got any revenue last year by re-
ducing the duties; neither would they next year, and yet
by common consent it was one of those duties to be
especially dealt with when a Conservative Government
came into power.—(Cheers.) It appeared from the
debate which had taken place elsewhere, for Hon. Gen-
tlemen had been particularly cautious to,
say as little as
possible on the subject in that House—(Cheers)—that
the great ground for want of confidence in the Ministry ,I
was, that they had neglected the finances of the coun-
try.
One great authority in another place had
said that the Ministry had year after year
ne ;
on
with an increasing deficiency that year after year
their claim to the confidence of the country had been
lessening, until, at length, it had been determined
to show that neither House of Parliament had any con-
fidence whatever in the Ministry. Now, he should like
to be furnished with some information on this subject 1
from the Hon. Gentleman opposite. He should like to ,
know if that was really the ground on which they called
upon :the House to vote that they had no confidence in
her Majesty's Ministers ? Very little could be gathered
from the speech of the Hon. Mover of the amendment
as to the grounds upon which he called upon the House
for its support. The Hon. Member said something about
war, but appeared not to have made up his mind exactly
whether the war to which he alluded was right or wrong;
but the result of all his arguments was, that he came to
some rough sort of conclusion that, because be had been
elected Member for Yorkshire, therefore he was called
upon to move that the House had no confidence in her
Majesty's Ministers.—(Cheers and laughter.) He would
now examine the grounds on which this imputation
of having neglected the finances of the country
rested, and he found from the accounts on the
table of the House that the Whig Government
was not the only Government open to the charge
of having incurred a deficiency, but that deficiency had
also occurred on former occasions. In 1825 and 1826 a
considerable deficiency had been incurred in consequence
of the Portuguese war, and no provision
_whatever had
been made for it. The then Chancellor of the Exche-
quer had relied upon the buoyancy of the resources of
the country—he had r ied upon the resources of free
4
trade, and he acted w. in doing so, for the next year
the revenue of the c ntry w not only sufficient to
make good that defici ere had been actually
such a surplus as to ena ii Chancellor of the Exche-
quer to engage in the repeal of taxation. In 1838 there
bad been a deficiency amodhting to 1,428,0004 owing,