The Sun.
London, England, 1847-06-01 00:00:00

guardians ; but he thought that it was very tinfa'r that
the non-resident proprietor should hov3 a noteieep aad a
proxy. •
That prolision heieg very objectionable, he
The
should propose to the House to dissent from it. Tn
other amendments refered merely to matters of miner
detail, and he hoped to see no essential alteration exceed
that he had noticed in those amendments. He 11-Ow.
therefore move that these amendments be now read.
The amendments up to clause 11 were agreed to.
On clause 11 being read,
Sir D. NORREYS objected to the amendment.
For some time previous to the introduction •of the pre'
sent poor law, circumstances were in operation in
land which caused the eviction of the poor tenantry trre
the rural districts, and caused them to settle in
towns. As soon as the law of settlement was intro"l'ens
duced it had the immediate effect of settling as a perms: =et
burden upon the towns the poorer classes of
nantry, who for some time previous had taken utPh.tshse:i.r.
residence there. He thought it a very great hard ak,`,
upon the towns that they were to be sacrificed to
sins and failings of the agricultural proprietors.
therefore moved they disagree with the Lords' Aln
ment to which he had referred.
Mr. CALLAGHAN seconded the motion.
Mr. S. O'BRIEN hoped that the House wouls.dserill,
Bite the work of charity to be performed by tP.
and that it would sanction the comparatively tre. us
ing
alteration which had been made by the other
11°u:serve'
did not concur in the Right Hon. Baronet's ° was
tions, for he thought that the alteration introduced
08
one of a wise and beneficial nature ; and therefor
should support the amendment as sent down to 15"
House. had
Mr. CALLAGHAN said that those towns which
1.00
driven the population of the rural districts awaY„llres,
them, had driven them back to die of hunger and.to_sa
Sir J. GRAHAM (who was with difficulty heard) '0;1,
that the House did not seem to attach so nwje:h inresPest to
ance to the Lords' amendments as he was wSP-tahett
attach to them. He had concurred with the stePe this
by the Government in many of the provisions 01 bed
Bill. The Noble Lord, in his speech of that
statedevelii on
departed in no great degree from what he had f thl
a former occasion with respect to the operation ° inlet/
impair
nhh
theaaptt theother
uthnt
ehdreeunder
alterationsoperationsn
theeu s House were
i which had been
measure. He was at the same time of oPd sa
circumstances
oif s
the
ha calculated
ecau
measure.la
et ef d
the s ebir iec:stemb.
erteoughtye
intredeeie to
aHmouastetesrheofulfdormno,t
but
tanidt
doidut
aupppoenar wtoh ahtimvitt;ti-fvn_
instance there was a case of real and substantial
ance on the part of the towns. The Mulatto tht,,f)
great portion of the rural district had gone -0
mad '-
towns, and a provision of the Bill had been fraresso
hinder the unmitigated burden of their reeintoeh bad
being thrown upon the town alone. That provisls ass.at
been omitted by the Lords, and therefore the air
serious inconvenience was likely to arise to th brow
tricts with which this great influx of the rural
sPrlt'a
of
tion had taken place. The prolongation of the °wolf
residence was, in his opinion, more illusory, 01117300
to be beneficial, and therefore the Lords atnee
was likely to prejudice the operation of t'h
oei and
There could be no doubt that towns like Liverpssatere,
Glasgow were great sufferers under the preseut,..iYid re.
for instead of the starving population of Irele'epplied
by
America, the parish
they
were
se
ceiving relief in their own country, or beieg.so.rste
sad
seteP°ool, be'
authoritiesntovwerittho Emnogneliysh
owing to a defect in the existing law of rein fere, r'
came irremovable paupers. He would, there
rs, bis
commend the Hon. Member for Mallow not to p
amendment to a division. losv "le
Sir GERGE GREY, who spoke in a very
that bed
of voice, was understood to concur in much ;ast
sat
fallen from the Right Hon. Gentleman who hade'ttaeao'
down. He should be unwilling to consent to the jape.
ment of the Lords, if it were calculated CO inflict Antis
tice upon this country ; but he, for one, dud ust alto*
cipate so distressing a result, although he did pot alto"
is how it
to eint„rts,
gether agree with the whole of the clause. „ 'coarse ,
it should be found to work badly, or that
would be amended ; and it would be uP°,, the
understanding that he should consent .`2111 was
omission of the clause. The importance of the.-"q.upott
so great, and the advantages it was likely to cou;',„ sass
Ireland were so direct that it behoved the Hous tu r
it without further delay.
per°tis
a great change before it could be placed in have the
Mr. LEFROY admitted that Ireland bad torounderg°
d
ld
state, and he sincerely hoped this Bill
effect of producing that change.
defects in the Bill, which experience woud
would be
but when these defects were discerned there t
h d the
owned the a
no difficulty in remedying them. Hebeen scer
Bill stood in its original form he should have
thank the
tical as to its success, and he must, therefore,
amendments'
Government for having accepted the Lords' „a_ep
er
Sir R. H. INGLIS really thought, after the
,„
jority that voted in favour of the clause on a ,
it allowes:
casion that the House would stultify itself if
nth
No douw:_tuernthiejnr
setrwagtere;
it to be committed. Besides, from what he g the
from the few words just addressed to the House by the
Right Hon. Gentleman, the Secretary of State for
the
Home Department, it did not appear to him that•
Right Hon. Gentleman altogether approved of the o e,ft
sion, but excused himself for adopting the amendta
upon the ground that it might be altered if it was fair,
to render the Bill inoperative. Now, it did not seer:
him to be right to legislate in that manner, and he
thought that before the omission were acceded to, the
House ought to have a conference with the Lords upo°
the subject.
Lord C. HAMILTON could not consent to the
amendment of the Hon. Gentleman, the Member tbr
Mallow, and he trusted, therefore, that it would be wiT;
drawn. If the clause should be found to operate
hardship another opportunity would be afforded them.;
amend it, and he thought they could not do otherw,s
than adopt the course recommended by her Majesty
Government. well
to BELLEW thought that the House would do
to accept the Bill as amended.
Lord G. BENTINCK could not understand the argitei;
ment, that this clause would tend to flood England wale
Irish paupers. He could not see how relieving ,to
paupers by electoral districts or by unions could tend two
send the paupers into this country. He did not vvl °that
go over the whole debate, but he certainly tbougnlrotee
the smaller the extent of district over which the
se be
were to be levied was, the greater care would there
in employing the population of that district. He fifiing
thought that if the House were to strain at these tr is
amendments, after having swallowed the amend be
introduced by the Lords in the year 1838, it woui•
strangely inconsistent. He should most certainly sur
port the Bill as amended. en"
Sir H. W. BARRON thought that the amend: eva
introduced into the Bill would go far to remedy th go
of the Bill, when sent up to the Lords, of the extelkop,
rating. He did not think that there was any, this
Member unconnected with towns or boroughs
A; ,otir
country who could bring forward any argument in ',ll,s' rste
of union ratings. It was most unfair to the lan," ha
that they should be called upon to pay a rate for t,
support of the poor over an extensive territory, in wh'et
they could not exercise the slightest control over the ‘s•-s;
penditure. There was at present a general and 01-i"
prpepnaritnegptsoy.sellall
ofu
upon
high rates which they would b:
spread alarm throughout the country at the Pre-'
a in s
and wretchedness, and holding cPaelelted
were
Lords. He
thate thhaed always
grate from land Numbersntuhge:hi
or
uota
,sf t
net
stock
kteap,
tresoamsnpadoel
flatforeaor.fit nes.;
neeeitive:
provement. In this state of thins he was greatly
law for Ireland, and the amendment
passed
that it had not Househad beenw a s introduced
greatly
Or'
abeen the supporter of a 11.133 e
With respect to the poor-law some years since'
With flooding this country, ft wag
as natural that the poverty of Ireland should follow the
mid'
property of that country as for the sun
to shine at
day. No law
could prevent Irish paupers coming to this
country so long as the union existed between the two
countries. Ireland had been treated by Hon. Members'
and the press of the country, in a most insolent manner'
Mr. CUR rEIs confessed to being one of those Hon,
Members, whose conduct had been insolent toward
Ireland, if to be insolent was to speak in terms of repru'
bation of the habits and the character of the Irish Poi:
pie. With respect to the amendments of the House °
Lords, he thought that there was a small clique or sem.?:
Lion in the House of Lords, who would gladly shun;
out of the poor law altogether, and would gladly, lie„iiht
the poor to be supported by this country. He di" '59
think that the House of Lords dared to refuge to Pod,
the Bill if it were sent up with the amendments exPung-
If the Hon. Member should divide upon his motion, lid
should most certainly vote with him. to
Mr. P. SCROPE thought that it would bo battar
agree to the amendments, than risk the fate of the ill
by sending it back to the Lords, where it was probe 0,
that other amendments, of no more favourable a naturch
would be introduced. He did not anticipate any sue,
serious effects from the operation of the amended elLnea
In the counties of Cork and Mayo, evictions had 7,0
going on to a most alarming extent, several villages of
been actually raised to the ground for the werepurep
clearing the ground, and the unfortunate peopleZeted
cast on the world, to find their resting place, alu. of
with famine, under the hedges, and in the ditcheie re,
their native country, where their ancestors haufosti
sided for many years in ease and c°773ssiaas
The electoral division system of rating was Pre Bete
to the Irish landlords to clear their estates, from wm,hey
the poor had been driven to the towns, and then
ar,
would be shipped to the English ports.—(" Hear, he
her
from Mr. Fitz3tephen French.) Did the Hon. Afeniana
for Roscommon know the way in which Marrs tos
corporations subscribed half a crown per head to %sr, ,
port the Irish paupers to the English shores.--(nil
hear.)Mr. This was a fact. rough
SHEIL said that he was Member for the borough
of Dungarvon, and he could not help regretting.thaet ,170
amendment introduced in the Lords was acquieset:.,.o
by the Government.—(Hear, bear.) The represen,
the
system was most defective, and he observed thst.sh,..
the Leg'
towns always received more attention from were,
ture than the landed proprietors, because tbeyrass,
better represented. He conceived that the Governwishe tou
were right in their original intention, and he

had persevered in it,
Mr. B. OSBORNE said as a constituent of the fit
to
Gentleman he could bear out the statements which
had made with reference to © influx of paupers in
the town of Dungarvon. But if the Hon. Cientleraith
felt so very strongly the defective state of the I'o°3
scntative system, he, from his high position, was boul'
to bring forward some definite proposition. The systl
of rating was most unjust and unfair. He was coDYIOO°
that the Noble Lord would, in the next session ossg
liament, have to come down and beg that tho

r ,
should be entirely revised.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said, that from certain OW:
munications which he had received, be considered toes
there were some points in which the system °I the
might be revised—and when the proper tuna carne, I
should be considered. With reference to the APP2,,,,
which had been made to him, respecting Lord Be
and the charge which Dlr. Scope had made; 11. lild Qllll