The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-25 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT
HOUSE OF LORDS, May 24.

Their Lordships met at Five o'Clock.
The Duke of WELLINGTON presented several peti•
tions from places in Kent against alteration of the Corn.
laws.

Messengers from the Commons brought up the South
Western Railway Bill, the Clent Vicarage Bill, the
Shotts and Wilson Railway Bill, and several other pri-
vate bills, which were severally read a first time.
Earl FITZWILLIAM presented petitions for repeal
of the Corn-laws from the Ward of Farringdon in
the City of London ; from Bridgewater ; from Lothian,
and several other places in Scotland ; from Grindleton, in
Yorkshire ; and from a great number of places in va-
rious parts of England.
Lord WILLOUGHBY D'ERESBY presented a num-
ber of petitions from Lincolnshire, Nottinghamshire,
Huntingdonshire, and parts of Yorkshire, against any
alteration of the Corn-laws; the Noble Lord made some
observations which were not heard in the gallery.
Earl FITZWILLIAM rose amidst some laughter and
cries of " Oh, oh." My Lords I undoubtedly told my
Noble Friend that I would not raise a discussion upon
the presentation of petitions.(Hear, and a laugh.) But
as my Noble Friend has presented petitions from parts
of the country with which he and I are equally connect-
ed, I think I could find no opportunity more convenient
than the present for calling your Lordship's attention to
some facts connected with the question.—(Oh, oh.)
Your Lordships, I have no doubt, have seen the recent li
publication of a letter addressed by the Noble Lord to the
Chairman of a Meeting in the County of Lincoln,
in which an apprehension is expressed, that the measure
proposed by her Majesty's Government will be detri-
mental to the country.—(Cries of hear, hear, and a laugh.)
But, in my opinion, the fear of my Noble Friend and of
those who agree with him, have prostrated their under-
standings.—(Laughter.) My Noble Friend states in the
letter that a duty of Bs. upon corn would have the effect
of sweeping away one-third of the rent of the country.—
(Cheers.) I believe, my Lords, it will have no such ef-
ect.—(oh, oh.) If you think, my Lords, it will have any
such effect, what becomes of the charge which your
Lordships so often make against me, in speech and ges-
ture, that I falsely accuse a part of the Legislature with
acting npon selfish motives in maintaining the present
laws ?—(Hear.) For if the ground of your Lordships'
apprehension be, that the proposed alteration would sweep
away a third of the rent, then it follows that you wish to
maintain the law to prevent a reduction of your rents.
(Cries of " No.") What then, my Lords, is your object ?
The Earl of WINCHILSEA—To give employment
to the labourer ?

Earl FITZWILLrA bf—What labourers ?
The Earl of WINCHILSEA—To the labourers who
are now employed upon those lands, which would be
thrown out of cultivation.—(Cheers.)
Earl FITZWILLIAM—I wish to be told in what
part of the country those lands are that would be thrown
out of cultivation ?—(Cries of " Oh," and " Question.")
The Earl of WINCHLLSEA—Why in Lincolnshire
itself, as the Noble Earl must know very well.—(Hear.)
Earl FITZWILLIAM.—I defy any one to find out
the place in Lincolnshire in which one-third of the rent
would be swept away. Is it in the fens ? Is it in the
rich lands of -the north ? Is it on the heath ?—(Hear,
hear, from Lord Winchilsea.) I am glad to hear that
cheer. I am owner, and I have been a cultivator a great part
of my life of lands upon the heath, and I am bound to say
that the effect would be to lower the rent to some extent,
though not to throw any portion of that land out of cul-
tivation.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) My Lords, lam
right glad to find that their Lordships admit that this is
a landlord's question. You admit that the reduction of
the price to the farmer would be met by a reduction of
rent.—(Cheers.) My Lords, I wanted no more
to justify me in saying that this is a landlord's
question, and not a tenant's.—(Cheers, and cries of " Oh !)
But my Noble Friend says that the value of agricultu-
ral capital would be swept away.—(Hear, hear.) My
Noble Friend says one-third.—(Hear.) Now what is
the meaning of this? Is it meant that the farmer will
lose every third waggon, plough, and harrow ? Or
is it meant that these would be reduced one-third
in cost? If so, I think it would be a great advan-
tage to the country that one-third less capital would
be equally efficient in cultivating the land. The
Noble Earl proceeded to say that the value of labour
did' not keep pace with the price of provisions. That
was the opinion of Mr. Burke, who said that the squires
of Norfolk, when they expressed a contrary belief,
"must have dined." A temporary rise in prices was, in
fact, more prejudicial than otherwise to the labourer,
inasmuch as it necessarily left him more competition
to contend with, without any compensating demand,
During the late high prices he had received a statement
from a Poor-law Commissioner to the effect that wages
had in no instance with which he was acquainted, been
raised more than 2s. ; in other cases they had been raised
is. ; and in other cases there had been no rise whatever.
The greatest delusion had been attempted to be practised
as to the price at which foreign corn could be sold in this
country. A gentleman, formerly a Member of Parlia-
ment, had stated in a pamphlet, that corn could be shipped
from the warehouses on the Continent for 265. a quarter.
There could be no greater delusion than was attempted
to be practised upon the people of Lincolnshire on the
present occasion. It was in that way that appre-
hensions were attempted to be excited, and for which

there was not the slightest foundation. That the pro-
posed alteration would have the effect of lowering prices
much below the average of the last eighteen years, was a
proposition he did not think any man would be able to
make out.—(Hear, hear.) He was aware of the great
authority, attached to every thing emanating from
a person in his Noble Friend's station ; and, therefore,
he could not suffer these statements to be made, which
were founded on misrepresentation and misconception,
without offering a few observations to their Lordships.
Lord WILLOUGHBY D'ERESBY, who was very
indistinctly heard in the gallery, said he regretted the
Noble Earl had not waited the arrival and presentation
of the petition to which he had alluded. Although
the Noble Earl might despise that letter—[Earl
Fitzwilliam—" No, indeed, I do not"]—he was gra-
tified to say thi\t he had consulted the labourers as to
the amount of 'cyages that would satisfy them—he em-
ployed 180 of them himself, and might be supposed to
know something 0f their condition.—(Hear.) The letter
had been written bar him as an apology for not being able
to attend the meeting. He certainly never expected that
it would have been brought under their Lordships' con-
sideration.

Earl FITZWILLIAM believed the consideration of
the farmers, and the good nature of individuals had in
many instances met the necessity of the case, but that
was not the rule which should govern the rate of wages.
Lord W. D'ERESBY said the wages which he had
stated were not those paid in his immediate neighbour-
hood, but throughout the whole country.

The Earl of WINCHILSEA thought it was exceed-
ingly inconvenient to bring in discussions on so impor-
tant a subject, affecting not merely the agricultural inte-
rest, but every interest connected therewith, on the presen-
tation of petitions. He had on former occasions refrained
from offering any observations on the presentation of
petitions, but he begged leave to say a few words
on the present occasion. The Noble Earl could
not be unacquainted with the character of

_ .
that respectable country gentleman, Mr. Chaplin, who
represented the county of Lincoln on a former occasion;
there *as no man who lived more arming his- tel
nantry, or was more anxious to promote their- in-
terests.—(Hear, hear.) He had never attended a pub-
lic meeting at which so much devoted attachment
was displayed towards any individual, and he had no
hesitation in saying that the charge to which the Noble
Earl had alluded was false.—(Earl Fitzwilliam—" I did
not make any charge against him.") He would go with
Mr. Chaplin, in saying that torn could be brought in at
26s.,which, with the Bs. duty, would be 345. per quarter.
—(Hear.) It appeared to him that the present system
was the best that ever had been devised—(Hear,
hear)—on an average of years it had worked well,
and he was convinced that under it all labouring classes
lad received a better price than they could hope for
under any other system. He was surprised to hear the
Noble Earl contend that the price of wages did not de-
pend upon the price of corn. He thought the average
of many years past must have convinced him of the fal-
lacy of that assertion. He was his own steward on all
his properties ; he let his own lands, he drew up his own
agreements with his tenants, he directed the method of
cultivation that was to be pursued, and he was as prac-
tically acquainted with the agricultural interest as any
land agent in the Kingdom. In Kent, in Lincolnshire,
in Northamptonshire—in all the counties with which
he was connected, wages had been invariably affected,
and the price of corn in Kent, where, when the price of
corn was low, in 1835, the wages had been 9s. a week,
they were now from 13s. to 15s. In Lincolnshire when,
in 183 h, they had been 10s. they were now 13s. 6d. ;
and in Northamptonshire where, in 1835 they
had been 9s. they were now 12s.—(Hear, hear.)
He believed a fixed duty to be a delusion.—(Hear, hear.)
When the price of corn was low it would be no protec-
tion at all, and when it was high no Government would
venture to collect it. The agriculturists only wished for
a fair protection, and the great body of them shared the
advantages and the burdens equally with the labourers,
and if the manufacturers had done the same he did not
believe that the present distress would have existed._
(Hear, hear.) The factory system had caused all the
existing evils.—(Hear, hear.) Men, when they at-
tained the age of twenty-five, were thrown out of em-
ployment, because it was cheaper to employ women and
children, and those men, thus thrown out of em-
ployment, were so crippled and demoralized by
their previous labours in the factories that they were
unfit for agricultural employment, and were driven to
work at hand-looms, at which it was impossible they
could earn more than 6s, Bd. a-week. He hoped the at-
tention of the Legislature would, ere long, be drawn to
the growing evils of the factory system.—(Hear, hear.)
The effect of any alteration in the Corn-laws would be to
throw the land out of cultivation. In Lincolnshire
there were large tracts of land which were not worth
cultivation anti wirer' an►
artificial which were
artificial onlym ore t
keptha 2. u
n in
man-
ner.—(Hear, hear, from Earl Fitzwilliam.) Now,
if the price of corn were such that the farmer
could not afford to manure these lands, they must be
thrown out of cultivation. In Kent there was land which
Fitzwilliam.)
of land so
Thes
proposed
had formerly been offered to the farmer rent free if he
and, while all other
would cultivate it, and it had been refused on those
terms. That land was now manured and cultivated.—
measure would
hear,"
entailfrom Ea
ritirnl
on itzawllii proprietors
situated. Let their Lordships omp.rietorecollect, that, whether
cultivated or not, land had to support the burden of the
te and
protected,he liigh
wthaye'-argratCieusts were also en-
;
agriculturists Pointerestsrwere
titled to protection.—(llear, hear.) They would not
allow them to have cheap shoes, or cheap hats, or cheap
Poor-rate
silks—why, then should they cry out for cheap corn?—
(Hear, hear.) If the country were ever dependent
upon foreigners for a supply of corn, and if, when it
came in, it were made a source of revenue, was it tic,t
to
be supposed that other countries would make it
a source
of revenue as it went out ?—(Dear, hear, hear.)- They