The Sun.
London, England, 1847-04-21 00:00:00

32? argument against the justice of the measure.
-apt leading feature of the scheme was the establishment
lat normal teachers and stipendiary monitors. He had been
-very anxious to see this accomplished, having the greatest
preference for the character of the schoolmaster, and
believing that really to influence education they should
begin at this point, and improve the character of the
enoolmaster before they hoped to improve that of the
latiPil• He therefore did not oppose this part of the pro-
position. Nor did he oppose that part of the scheme
which established schools of industry, whether
they were agricultural or otherwise, in the rural districts.
This he was of opinion, was a sound proposition, and
Le gave
in
it his support. Again, the establishment of
workhouses and prisons was a system
~er? no which deserved the support of every one, for there
R places where they more wanted.
tee had
now s.`e,atei those parts of thewere measure to which
those 11:es adhesion, and he should therefore state
e t°, which lie offered his objection. He objected
gene' which
that a schoolmaster should be a teacher
' religion.—(Hear hear.) It was not his pro-
ter province to meddle with theoretical doctrines.
t might be enough, as was done in Ireland,
40 permit him to instruct in the general principles of
If they could agree about those Chrit-tian
Principles which ought to influence the lives of all—it
they could establish a kind of neutral ground —on
Which various religions can meet as on a cote-
/3)1°11 basis—why then they should teach them ;
tit he objected that the schoolmaster should be made
the instrument of theology. It had been said, let the
Scriptures be read every day in the schools, but he was
'yell' much afraid that it would become a mere task of
rote, and the repetition would prevent it from
sinking into their hearts in the manner that it should.
This system had been tried in Holland ; and those
who had read the report of Mr. Poussein were
filvare that there they first made the schoolmaster the
tainister- of religion in schools, but in a year or two
afterwards they were obliged to alter the plan,
and admit the clergymen of different denominations,
and the system worked in the most effectual
manner, and had done ever since. When that great monu-
tnent to the liberality of the people of Liver-
Pool, the corporation schools were established
the clergy of different denominations were admitted to
instruct the scholars in the place where the pupils met,
011 the common grounds of secular instruction; and they
tints learned that charitable intercourse between the sects
which bound them in the bonds of union like one family.
44e objected to the sort of gratuity to the school-
taastcrs, for while be had no objection to providing
their emoluments, he objected to the doing away
with their independence. He had another great
objection that clause which ordered that where pupil-
teacherswere unfitted for the offices of teachers they
should still have a chance in some of the offices
connected with the excise or the customs. This
he thought was offerini, a premium to the less able indi-
viduals to offer themselves for these schools, because it
Was in effect saying, «if you are not fitted for the one
ou will at all events be eligible for the other. He
thought that all Government situations should be thrown
open to public competition. He would have no power
to offer any amendment on the second reading, or in
ecnntnittee ; and he had now to deal with it in a vote on
the educational estimates. He therefore felt it was his
duty to move the present amendments, though he had
Still,
doubt whether the House could entertain them.
"till, should he be able to press them forward, he should
certainly take the sense of the House on them. What
disposed him to offer these amendments and not oppose
the Plan on the whole was, because he saw in it the traces
• progression—of progress from a worse to a better sys-
tem_but it was not what he could wish ; still it was
ittgress, and he supported it. However, he
unght the Government, in malting these grants,
anould make an annual statement of the ex-
tuditure for every educational institution; from
h°°lsl to the British Museum. On the present
Occasion he regretted to see ranged on this subject
againstthe Government, some of the best friends of
ocatien, who seemed to treat it somewhat in a secta.
• ail and narrow spirit—they seemed to realise the say-
ing of Hudibras

"Civil and religions fears,
The Set folks together by the ears.
s° parties seemed rather to give way
to these fears
than to inquire into the real nature of this grant. From
every motive there was an inducement for the friends of
_,° extension of education to be united, and no reason
natever that they should differ. But he regretted that
;I°hwutt: the case, and trusted that they would not long
80, for united they were equal to anything, and
e tin
to accomplish all that they desired. The Govern-
=ment, however, still held the fate of the country in their
ends, and if they would but accede to the numerous
Presentations which had bees made, they might still
in‘rrY out a great benefit for the country without alarm-
de. the Prejudices of any sect, or disappointing the
ires
tlse any party. Yet, although there was a bar in
but pian as now proposed, which seemed to him to be all
of ;Insuperable, he did not despair of the ultimate success
to cause of education. With a willing Government
,s__"erise the plan, and with a willing Parliament to
nouvide the means, he did not doubt but that in the end
c.ation for all classes would be diffused throughout
see land.
Sir
C• NAPIER said if he were to consult his own
This es, he should be content to give a silent vote on
hrsion, because he believed that there were many
on t embers far more capable of addressing the House
itituhe subject than him—but representing a large con-
an eneY as he did—many of whom were Dissenters
tr Roman Catholics—he thought it his duty to
esPass on the attentien of the House for a
Short time.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord at the
head of the Government last evening, stated to the
House, that the deliberations of that House were
Overawed on the subject before it, and that many of the
Members of the House had been called upon by their
constituents to give an account of their sentiments on
the subject, and peremptorily required to vote against
the Government measure. He (Sir C. Napier) did not
know to whom the Noble Lord referred, but as far as
himself and his colleague (Sir B. Hall) were concerned
he could assure him that their deliberations had not been
overawed, and that they had not been asked or required
by their constituents to vote against the measure. He
must tell the Noble Lord that neither his constituents nor
any fear of the Government, or anybody else could coerce
him, because in the course he intended to adopt with
respect to the measure he considered he was simply and
conscientiously doing his duty. It was quite true that
his colleague and himself had been waited upon by a
deputation of Dissenters and Roman Catholics, stating
that they objected to the measure. The Dissenters
objected to it on the ground that enough of
blcsnitY had been already given to the Church for
the purpose of educating the people, and that they
a° Dissenters had great objections to receive any money
for educating the children of the sect to which they be-
longed; and that, therefore, they considered it most un-
just that they should be taxed by the present Gevern-
'Lent for what they would derive no benefit from what-
"far; whilst the Catholics upon the other hand, who
Were thrown entirely out of the proposed plan were of
opinion that it was extremely hard to be taxed for the
Purpose of instructing other people in religious
octrines which they did not approve. The Noble
Lo rd also stated, that it was not the duty of
the Church to educate the working classes of the
Coultry; but the Hon. Bart. the Member for the Uni-
versity of Oxford (Sir R. H. Inglis) disagreed with the
Noble Lord, as he stated that, before dissent was known
1 this country, that the Church was the great educator
of the people; and that even when dissent began and
/2.,:ourished, that the Church exceeded the Dissenters in
tne education of the people. Nay, more, the Hon. Bart.
Went still fartb er, as he said that he was distinctly
of opinion, no, grant should be given to any class
except to tbte Established Church; he (Sir C. Napier)
Was
surprised to hear such a sentence as that proceed
from the me uth of such an enlightened Member as the
Jaoli. Baronet. According to him, the education of the
people exclusively belonged to the Church, and that all
other sects, whether Wesleyan, Jew, or Catholic, were
to be deprived entirely of the means of education, so far
as aid from the Government grant was concerned ; or,
in other word, that those of all other denominations,
except those belonging to the Church of England, were
going to a. certain place which he was unwilling to men-
tion.—(Laughter.) But it was possible that the Hon.
Baronet might have been overawed by his constituents,
and that he had been told by them, that if he voted for
any money being given to any body, except the Church of
England, t'aat 1-ie would lose the confidence of the Church
of Englan.3, wad endanger his seat at the next election.
The Noble Lord said last evening that there were nearly
a million of -children now educated in the National So-
ciety of the Church of England. The liturgy and cate-
chism were taught in that Church, and the children were
obliged to. go to them. The Noble Lora also said that
the Committee of Education neither approved nor disap-
proved of that plan, but he hoped and trusted that the
Church would follow the example of the Weslcyans, and
be more liberal, by not forcing an education on the chil-
dren which their parents would not approve of. He also
said that he was quite certain that the Church would be
the gainer by some relaxation of that rule. Now, it ap-
peared to him (Sir C. Napier) that if the views of the
Noble Lord were followed out, that this would be very
nearly a secular education. The Noble Lord said that
he hoped and trusted that the Church would be regulated
on a more liberal footing, and that the Dissenter would
not be obliged to learn the Church catechism, or the
liturgy, or torced to go to church, contrary to the will of
their parents. It appeared to him that this was as he
had said--a secular education, and if it were
Possible in this country, where there were so
many esifferent sects, to have a school attached
to every chapel at large, it should be done. There
could not be the smallest doubt that it would be right
and proper to connect the education of children with re-
ligion, but when they knew that it was perfectly ix:apos-
chle that there could be schools attached to every
ureh or chapel in the country, it was evident that
here the English. Church existed in agricultural
rlstriess, that either the Dissenters and Catholics who
hued in these districts must go to school, contrary to
_ ,°. will of their parents, and be taught a religion of
7nich tl ey did not approve, or else go totally and entirely
without edu station. Now, he really did not see how the
present
ed
plan was to obviate that difficulty ; and it ap-
pear •
to him perfectly impossible that a secular edu-
ecoald be given to all the children of this
7'1417. Let the clergy of the Established Church
lyre them religions instruction and education on Sun-
,Pri• :Let them do, what it was the custom to do in
elan7verY small districts with very conscientious
even, who, after the sermon of the Sunday fore-
,Zuns invited the children into the vestry, and taught
Zeta_ their catechism, and who thought that that was
vic,.°ll3' proper way of giving them religious instruc-
th:* The children went to church in the afternoon in
Alam• manner as in the forenoon. Let them see if
rffe was any danger of the children haviil reli-
issinz_s_!d!eation, if through the country at large they
gbit7"l in the same manner as in the smaller dis-
°Atiattir. Tin tiiatrah *IA tilt, MOW