The Sun.
London, England, 1847-04-27 00:00:00

THE SUN', LONDON, TUESDAY M DRNING, APRIL 27, 1847.

of giving such opposition as he might see prof Per in tire
after stages.
AURICULTURAL STATISTICS BIL,L.
Mr. FORBES wished to know, because he thought
that the previous answer of the Right Hon. C„'-entle'.nan
was misrepresented by the organs through
which the
public derived their iniormation, whether the sixpe7iise of
collecting the rates was to be paid out of the Consoli-
dated Fund, or from what other source it mist be de-
rived, and whether, if farmers refused to be am arable to
the requisitions of the Bill, they would be p,.!occeded
against by fine, or otherwise ?
Mr. GraSON said, that on a Bill not before the Howse
it would be somewhat inconsistent to
go into the detAs
of the measure; bat he could assure the Hon. Member
that the whole Bill would shortly be laid belore the
House.

LORD DALIIOUSIE'S ACT.
Mr. NEWDEGATE wished to know from the, ;Fecre-
tary of the Board of Trade whether it was the irate ntion
of the Government to amend, in this sesailoo., ttla, a Act
cammonly called Lord Dalhousie's Act?
Mr. GIBSON thought that the question would better
be answered by hi. Right Hon. Friend the Chie!; Com-
missioner of the Railway Board.
COUNTY COURTS.
Mr. BOUVERIE called the attention of the Right
Hon. Gentleman the Attorney-General to se me recent
decisions in the Equity Courts. Two judg es had in
cases decided that the plaintiffs could not b 3 examined
in support of their claims against the defendan ts. This,
as far as he understood the Act, was not the construc-
tion which ought to be put upon it, and he Atishud the
Right Hon. Gentleman to give his opinion on t he matter.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, that under the
circumstances he did not think his opinion /would be
worth anything. The Right Hon. Gentleman- then read
the clause, which was to the effect that the plaintiff or
his wife, in any suit, might be examined on behalf of
the defendants.
Mr. OSBORNE wished to know what was intended
to be done that night in regard to Irish railroads.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that, after the report of the Committee of Supply on the
Bill of Friday was agreed to they would then proceed
to the proposition for making advances to Iris: 1 railways.
He was desirous of taking the decision of the House on
the question, in order that advances might be made on
Irish railways.
EMIGRATION TO THE UNITED STATES.
Lord G. BENTINCK wished to
ask a question of
which he had given a notice a fortnight ago, respect-
ing emigration. He understood that the measures he
then alluded to had passed into a law both in tile states of
New York and Massachusetts. the sta ie of New
York it was provided that each captain of a ship who
brought emigrants should give a bond for 300 dollars
that they would not be chargeable on the state, and the
state of Massachusetts 10,000 dollars for ten years. lie
would ask the Noble Lord for any information he had
on the subject.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he had not heard
of the passing of the Bill to which the Noble Lord had
referred ; but he knew that such a Bill was under the
consideration of the New York and Massachussetts
Governments, and the effect of it would be to require
security from shipowners having vessels freighted for
either New York or Boston, that any pauper passengers
should not be left destitute and chargeable to the
Government.

SERVICE OF HEIRS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
CROW N CHARTERS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Both these Bills went through Committee pro forma,
and the reports were brought up and received.

EDUCATION.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL, in moving the order of the
day for receiving the report on the educational grant,
said he wished to explain a matter personal to himself,
and an Honourable Friend of his in that House on a
former night. His Hon. Friend the Member for Car-
lisle Stated the other evening, that on the 14th or 15th
of this month an application was made on the part of
the Catholic bishop to !Ave an interview with him on
the subject of the educatidnal plan, before its introduc-
tion into that House, but he declined to grant it.
—(Hear, hear.) Now he begged leave to state
that he should be very sorry to be supposed to have been
guilty of any want of courtesy towards the Catholic
bishop, and he therefore begged to state what really did
occur on the 9th. On that day, just after attending the
Cabinet Council, and as he was on the point
of going a few miles out of town to spend the
Sunday, carrying with him a large bundle of pamphlets
on education, he received the letter of Bishop Griffiths,
read by his Honourable Friend. Certainly he under-
stood that letter to allude to the subject of the edu-
cation of the children of poor Catholics, but as he
had to bring forward the plan on the Monday following,
and there was no time for him to give the interview, or
to make any alteration in the minutes that had then
been agreed to, he wrote the reply which his
Honourable Friend read on Friday. Having stated
thus much with regard to a matter entirely of a
personal nature, he begged leave to say, in moving the
order of the day for the reception of the report, that he
theonpteiodn whatever it would beon h
fully understoodtepart of G
that theorveerizm
was no into
exclude Catholics from the benefit of this grant ;
but fresh minutes would have to be pro-
posed upon that subject before the question could
be brcught before the House in a formal manner.
This would make provision for all persons in holy
orders, not only regular clergymen but also Dissent-
ing clergymen. But he understocd that in the Romish
Church there were persons in orders, although
they were not in holy orders, but who were engaged
in the business of education. It was readily
understood that these minutes did not contem-
plate any provision for them, but he quite
agreed that the Romish Church should not be excluded.—
(Hear, hear.) But whether there would be any imme-
diate opportunity to frame minutes he could not say, but
every attention would be paid to the subject, and
minutes should be made, and a different measure would
be brought in to grant allowance for the purposes of
education to the members of the Romish Church.
Sir G. CLERK wished to know whether, in the con-
sideration of the subject, any regard had been had to
the position of the parochial schoolmasters of Scotland.
He wished, therefore, in the first place, to ask the Noble
Lord whether those schoolmasters were to participate di-
rectly in the present grant, and whether they were to be
entitled to receive pupil teachers into their schools;
secondly, whether their salary was to be increased; and,
thirdly, whether the parochial schoolmasters of Scotland
were
to be entitled to any retiring allowance after a cer-
tain period of service ?

Lord J. RUSSELL said that as this subject had not
yet been submitted to the consideration of the Committee
of the Privy Council, the answer that he might
give would only express his own opinions. The grant
now under the consideration of the House
did not contemplate giving any
aid except in cases of
voluntary effort, so that the parochial schoolmasters of
Scotland would not in any way participate in the present
grunt, but their relief would better constitute a part of
a future measure.
WASTE LANDS IN IRELAND.
Mr. HUNIE observed that it was proposed by Government
to ask for leave to bring in a Bill to apply for a sum for the
improvement of waste lands in Ireland. Lie trusted that the
measure would be brought on in time to allow of the discussion
of the important principles involved in it.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL had no objection to bring it for-
ward early in the evening.
The order of the day for bringing up the report was then
read.

Sir WILLIAM MOLESWORTH, in bringing forward his
motion,ceuneil "enThEadteaenatyiemn:aesurreesthoefrthreegC;lnamtimenitst,eewhoifehtheexPelreivdye
yp
et
dh
iee
huts eaaenboodor
complaining
vepteuhl
age3ihng-
Roman Catholics from participating any grant of public
money for purposes of education, by in
requiring in all schools
whonrcihs, receive creeirvsei
version
ec such
sghreanstcsroi
t to
hehad
be
Romane s rescinded," n dceadt,:e saidi
e th
schoolmastersat
of the operation of the Bill, and its exclusion of
themselves from the advantages given to the
pftuPruebst,icareainonegae
other religious persuasions of the country. The
ain Iltiatniornhefsrtoemr,
simple object of his motion was to make the measure of
the Government—which many thought a partial one—one to
enable the Government to impart some of the public aid
to the Roman Catholics. It might be said, however, that the
Roman Catholics did not need external aid, fur they had never
made education an object of their consideration. But he was
certain that they stood more in need of aid than any other see •
tion of the population. He asked the House to consider what
accommodation the Roman Catholic population in the manu-
facturing districts possessed. He bad received papers from
Manchester, which fully confirmed the statements made in the
House the other night by an Hon. Member. The Hon. Gen-
tleman proceeded to read documents at some length. In
Liverpool there was at least 20,000 children of Roman Ca-
tholics, a great proportion of whom were not receiving edu-
cation. In Middleton there were 6,000 Roman Catholics in
the same position. Bolton, Stockport, and the metropolic
were in the same position, London alone contained from
150,000 to 200,000 Roman Catholics. In the east district of
Londen there were 20,000 Roman Catholics, with 2,000 children,
and only 800 were receiving education. In Finsbury there were
30,000 Catholics, of whom but 500 children were being edu-
cated out of 2,000. In Marylebone only 800 children of the
Roman Catholics were receiving education out of 3,000, be-
longing to a population of 30,000. In Chelsea but 200 chil-
dren out of 1,000 were being educated. In the Borough which
he represented, Southwark, there were 40,000 Catholics, with
4,000 children, and only 100. were receiving any education.
In Lambeth the number of Catholic children was 1000,of which
but 150 were receiving education. Great Britain had been esti-
mated to contain 1,530,000 Roman Catholics,though 800,000 he
thought nearer the number, and out of 65,000 children
belonginc, to them, not more than 30,000 were edu-
cated ; cleaving 35,000 without any education at all.
It had been stated that no application had been made for assist.
ance by Roman Catholics ; but this was an error, for last
summer an application was made by the Hon. Mr. Langton, to
the Council, for a grant in aid of certain schools, in a very poor
district in the neighbourhood of Landport, which was not
favourably entertained. In the_ reply, it
was stated that the
minutes to be adopted required the daily reading of the Scrip.
tures. But then this involved the reading of the whole of the
Bible. This wss the injurious system of the Government, and
only the other day a meeting was held, at which three of the
most respectable Roman Catholic Bishops were present, and
where the Earl of; Shrewsbury presided, a resolution was
unanimously passed condemning the scheme of the Govern-
ment. He must say that it was his belief that the Roman
Catholics had been sacrificed in order to still the opposition of
the Dissenters. After the speeches of the Noble Lord
the Member for West Yorkshire (Lord Morpeth), the
Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth (Sir R.
Peel), and the Noble Lord the Member for London (Lord
J. Russell), he must express his disappointment. Even had
the Roman Catholics neither asked nor required assist-
ance, they were fully entitled to a benefit from
the State, and no difference ought to have been
made in this country between Catholics and Protestants,
especially as Catholicism and Protestantism had ceased to be the
representatives of despotism and Protestantism. No more
than he could understand the feelings of the slave owner in the
southern estates of America, whose life and property depended
upon the education of his slave, and yet it was refused, did he
understand the principles
of
.the state. who after admitting
Roman Catholics to the functions of the Legislature in both
that and the other House of Parliament, and to those of the
hioltest offi..es under Gov,nment, refused to grant to them the
minor rights to which they were entitled. The Right Hon.
Gentleman, the Member for Edinbtirgh, described this as a
system of perfect impartiality, and he appealed to future ages,