The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-09 00:00:00

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MORNING EDITION. N
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Duncombe from the inhabitants of Fi E7hury. Soffrone7T-he •
bill, Hatton-garden, the Vestries F.': St. James's. • :!,:"7 .2.
Clerkenwell..eand St. Luke, and se iii lii Boarde of -'tii.
Guardians ifieTorkshire ;by Mr. Lead par a parish , ‘,ee:p.4.
in 'Westminste'S ; and by Captain Peelle le to a Unieneee4e.". ,
in the Couute• of Sussex.
On the question being put, e •
NTs 7, cis 'els 1.., At.. ea A.
Mr. DISRAELI said he' was aware that when any,
great measure became the law of the land, it seldom
happened that it realized • Ike hopes al those who
supported it, and so, he was afraid, was the case
in the measure which it was then proposed to pro-
long. Now, before agreeing to that measure, be thought
it was of great importance for the House to ascertain
whether the Bill had had those remedial effacta which
had been predicted, or whether there had not been
some influences which had prevented those reenotli If
effects from operating ; and he trusted he would be
allowed to occupy the time of the House for a few
minutes, because many. taunts had been thrown out
against those whose voice was loud in decrying
the measure upon the hustings; and tvlio were
said to ha discreetly silent in that House.
He (Mr. D'lsraeli) would address lminiself to what he
considered the salient and oriainel principles or the 13.3
—the principles upon which all its dioamls meat media
ately or immediately depend. He wished to sue
whether the Noble Lord had profited by the
experience of the last six or seven years. Of
the Bill, as it at present existed, one of the
most important features was doubtless the union
of parishes. It MIS a proposition that met with con..
derable discussion when it was first addressed to the
notice of the House and of the country. Fur his own
past, he did not think that it had ever received that
attention which it ought to have commanded. The union
of parishes was, in fact, a total 'evolution of the
ancient parochial jurisdiction of England. Teat
jurisdiction Waseehe most ancient in the country, much
more ancient than the political jurisdiction, one which
bore a much nearer affitiity to time lover classes
of such ty thane any political,
~farms .which they
- -criii d possibly invent. He (Me. D'lsraeli) thought
that the dteration in . this respect was as great a
social revolution es Lai aver been t ffected.—(Hear,
hear.) There were many reasons eii. en at the time
for a measure which was generally recognized as one of
a very s.rong c 'erecter. N cessity wes the plea by
which it was supported : they were told that they
could never obtain an efficient Lied economical in en-
ageincnt of the poor but by the ration of parishes.
It was then said, and it might he sail now, that the abuses
of the old system, which were never denied, grew out of
circumstances which did not depend upon the s'ze of the
parishes. It was on that occasion particularly
pointed out to the House, that the reform of
the old system had already commenced in England,
and lied proceeded to a considerable extent, for
many years before the Government projected inter-
fering. Several parishes were adduced, many parishes
indeed were quoted, in time original reports ; and in the
first papers that were placed before Parliament, seve-
ral nstances were adduced of parishes which had
commenced, and had effected . this self-reformation
with the most complete success. It was alleged by
the government, that if they left this reformation to the
parishes themselves, it would most probably fail,
or that if it succeeded, its progress must be slow,
(Hear, hear.) There were some who thought that
it was better that self reformation should accompany
self Government. There were sonic aho thought there
was no probebitity that the Government would iuterlere.
For what had the Government, as far as its
domestic policy was eonceraed, ever effected in
England? L bad indeed sometimes prornuted coin-
. coerce by granting bounties, sometimes fostered ma-
nufactures by lessening the duties, but so far as
our domestic policy was concerned, there was nothing
of any great benefit, of any vastness, or of a compre-
hensive character in our seciai condition for which we
were indebted to the Government. The Government
did not originate our si, stein of national educa-
tion. Tne Government did not institute our Uni-
versities or endow our Colleges. 'rive Govern-
ment did not even create our colonial empire. It
was not the Government of England that conquered
India. It did not build our citadels, make our roads,
or build our bridges ; and even in the present age,
when the Governmen's interfered in almost every
great undertaking, it did not construct our railways,
The Government, however did interfere, and termina•
tent the whole parochial jurisdie tion of the
conntry ; and, certainly, it was impossible to
conceive any revolution, although it might
not have the hubbub and the individual
interest of political revolution, that exercised a greater
influence on the condition of the people at
large than that interference did. Bat what
had been the consequence? Nobody would
deny that if they had not outraged the Constitu-
tion, or violated the laws,• which they might alter
when they liked, they had done that which was
much more important than Constitution or law,
they had outraged the manners of the people. No
statesman would treat that consideration with contempt,
and he thought it was doubtful whether any pecuniary or
financial consideration could weigh against the injury,
which, by outraging the manners of the people ,they com-
mitted. But had they gained that pecuniary advantage?
As far as could at present be ascertained, the parochial
constitution of England had been destroyed for a mere
sordid consideration—(Hear, hear)—and that sordid
consideration they were in the miserable position
of finding they had not obtained. It was now 'natter
of notoriety, for they had it from authority, that the sum
which had been levied on the people of England for
the year that had terminated, according to the
official statement, amouuted to more than 1,200,000/.
—(Hear, hear, hear.) If that sum were added
to what had been expended last year, and the increase
of the county-rates, and the universal promise in every
parish of the increase of the poor-rates for the corning
year taken into consideration, he wouldask whether there
was any man bold enough to say that before two
years had expired the expenditure for the Poor-laws
would be less than it was two years before the present
law came into operation ?—(Hear.) lie mentioned the
period of two years because, in the average formed
by the Commissioners, they omitted the year imme-
diately preceding the commencement of the new law.
the practical consequence of that would be that they
must probably pay as much as they did under a system
' of abuse, and without any of the advantages that
resulted front that system. The next great feature of
the law was th t which the union of the parishes neces-
sarily led to. l'hat portentous creation of a reformed
i legislation, which certainly had not been equalled in any
country, was the necessary consequence of the union of
districts. lie knew it was easy to declaim about the
statute of Elizabeth, but he was not willing, on the re-
sent occasion, to avail himself of that. lie wished
to bring a dispassionate spirit to the discussion
of the Noble Lard's motion. The statute of Eti-
zabeth, inked, involved a principle which thsuld
be always spoken of with consideration, and
respect, but it was not very clear by what
means that principle could be carried into
effect. But, suppose, for a moment, that in
a highly populous and civiliz eel country, they
could control and manage time pauper population by
shutting them up in prisons; it was contrary to
the dictates of human nature, and to all the cir-
cumstances of civilized society to do so. That
they must be it prison was time necessary conse-
quence of the present system, and then they
should have a discipline of some sort esta-
blished. It was impossible to immure persons in a
single building without immediately enacting a
discipline Wilicb, as far as the.; were concerned,
lid every circumstance of the disgrace of a prison
without the conscious elegradatiuu of deserving
such. What theme he would ask, had they o' tained
by taking the pauper population of England and immuring
them in a building which had all the characteristics,
of a prison, and submitting them to treatment
,whic i
they could oaiy extend to criminals ?—(liea.p (sear.)
What practical effect hid they obtainedth ...
co much
they reduced that expenditure of wlm. '1 .
"reyfastap.
complained? 01 the contrary, !hoe'
discontented population. 'I he
proachieg the maximum of their home . expenses,,
and they had produced a
f.in,,of time authority by
next subject
sePiricroli,c)id,.pj:dent of all local eir-
mtto effect ; ualess there
which thelaiv"c'dosuldth'bee
was a control which vvsit,
ecessary
which should insure the per-
that could not be carried
cumstances and
ltir,that he thought it necessary
they a great control and influence.
they should .
ho-vev r II •IA that central and
intofeet feutflefielmt.
It was not nccssary, , , , .
controlling inflaence should be in the metropolis—
e n tl
I ofc
confesseditnlinter.
r
.there was no reason why it should not be local. The
Poor-law Bill had not produced the general benefit that
n.. 1 anticipated from it. Even the reduction of expen-
diture which had been so sanguinely anticipated had
not been uccomplished. It appeared to bins more na-
tural that the cantrolling influence should be vested in
the chief persons in tile country, than in persons ap-
pointed by the Government, amid residing in the metro-
polis. lie had hoped that the three great objections
to the former measure had been removed by the Noble
Lord in the present all. Instead, however, of his
having made any modification of the clause for the
union of parishes, he hod extended it to unions of
unions, and, by that step, the fragments of all paro-
chial institutions were entirely destroyed. In the Bill
it was provided that you might farm out the pauper po-
pulation from one county to another. All the practices
of the old law, as regarded unions and workhouses,
were aggravated, while, as regarded the great principle
of c .ntruEzatiou by the Bill
before the House, the
power which
a
Commissioners rdght and could obtain p
had never been exercised by any Pailiamcnt of England
copy of time old law.
before. I ii short, it sees an exaggerated
There was one objection lion. Gentlemen had often
urged against this Bill. The tendency of modern legis-
lation had uniformly been to centralize authority. Ho
admitted that to centralize authority was in some degree
a necessity of the advancement of civilization, but he
thought also they should he cautious when they cm-
! traliz.ol authority to col-liso it to subjects of the most
meterial character. On subjects relative to education,
1 to liberty, or to time poor, they should be most jealous
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