The Sun.
London, England, 1840-05-06 00:00:00

EVENING EDITION.

Yet they wore for the continuance of the system.
He believed that the colonial s3s.in ha,l generally an-I
Signally succeeded.—(Cries of" No, no.") It had been
said that the colonies would be more benefited by the
immigration of free labourers. He did not undervalue
the importance of that immigration, but he did not think it
would be sufficient to supersede the necessity for convict-
labour. But it had also been said, that the employment of
convict labour prevented the immigration of respectable
settlers. But the contrary was the fact. It was found
by experience that it had no such effect. He trusted that
no one would suppose that ha advocated the abuses which
had been complained of. But he did not think that the
Whole system of transportation should be con-
demned on account of the abuses; and he deeply
regretted that the Noble Lord (Lord John Russell)
did not apply himself to remove the abuses instead
of abandoning the system. The inequality
of suffering occasioned by the punishment, was not con-
lined to transportation. Take the least of all punishments, a
Pecuniary fine. Did it not press upon different individuals
with great inequality ? Indeed the same was true of every
other kind of punishment. The transportation which he
advocated should be continued with such moral and reli-
gious regulations as would provide for the improvement
of the convicts. Even under the present system (bad as
was) many convicts had been enabled by the tickets of
leave to return to honest and industrious habits before
the expiration of the period of their transportation, and
not unfrequeatly they had afterwards risen to worth and
respectability-. It had been said that the knowledge of
these instances tended to weaken the effect of transporta-
tion in deterring from crime. But under the system
of imprisonment in this country, the convict was
shut out from the possibility of reformation. It was
declared by the Inspectors of Prisons, that the discharged
Prisoners had the greatest difficulty in finding employment,
and were on that account for the most part compelled to
return to dishonest courses. He was convinced that the

proposed plan would not have any effect in producing the
reformation of offenders, but would tend, in this country as
in France, to let loose periodically upon the public, the
most desperate criminals. The Noble Lord (Lord John
Russell) ought to hesitate before he aba doned the system
Which had been laid down by Pitt, and under which the
colonies of Australia had extended and flourished in a
manner unexampled in any age or history.
air. WARD observed that the Noble Lord who had
just sat down had stated this was not a party question.
Undoubtedly it was not, otherwise, instead of the speech
of his Hon. Friend ( Sir W. Molesworth) which he must
Say, exhibited deep research, close reasoning, and a tho-
rough acquaintance with every fact, having been listened
to by almost an empty house--the Noble Lord at one
time having been nearly the solitary representative of his
P„,artY—the benches opposite would have been crowded.
The system of transportation was a system that was ra-
dically wrong. If they wished to encourage .free emi-
gration, they must suppress that which contaminated the
"lolly. He very much agreed with the sentiments ex-
pressed in a petition which had been presented during the
present Session by his Hon. Friend, the Under-Secretary
for the Colonies, and which was signed by six members of the
Legislative Council, 57 Justices of the Peace, four Clergy-
Men, and :355 landowners of New South Wales. The whole
tendency of that petition was, that the House should
prepare the way for a free system of emigration. The
want of labourers in these colonies was felt extremely,
which might have been remedied by sending out emi-
grants. It however unfortunately happened, that in the
Ter- e
, eear the assignment system was, as the Noble Lord
tad told them, to cease, the Colonial Office had not a
shilling to spend in colonising New South Wales.
What had become of that fund which would have en-
abled the Colonial Office to send out 10,000 emigrants
as it did last year? Why the fact was that the whole
fund had been diverted from its proper purpose, and had
bademployed to defray the expenses of prisons, and
nad been diverted from the purposes of emigration for
which alone it was intended. He thought that his Hon.
Friend the Member for Leeds was entitled to the thanks
of the country for bringing the subject forward, let the
result of the motion be what it might.
Ma. C. BULLER thought, with all the objections
that had been made to the system of assignment, it was
the only mode of keeping up transportation with any effect.
He considered that his Hon. Friend, the Member for
Leeds, was inclined to take too sweeping a view of the
state of the penal colonies. No one could deny sonic of
the inferences which had been drawn by the Hon. Member
for Leeds ; but he could not agree that transportation into
New South Wales was useless, and ought to be abolished.
The system of transportation to New South Wales had
converted more criminals to honest courses than any other
means. Many had become reformed, and good members
of society. He thought, however, that New South Wales
had become so wealthy and well-settled, that they could no
longer continue it as a penal settlement. Free labour was
now its chief reliance, for in place of 3,000 convicts annually,
the last two years they had sent out 10,000 annually of
free labourers—it was now their only resource. Emigra-
tion must therefore be encouraged, and in order to do so
they must give up the sending of convict labour. How-
ever, even that would not do—the people there were most
anxious for popular institutions—they were most desirous
of representation, and so were thousands in this country,
Who were anxious to emigrate if such a free government
were given to the colony. The Governor had now the
Power of ruining any man by depriving him of the whole of
his convict labour. Sir G. Arthur did so to one man, and
in one day totally ruined him, for his flocks, &c., were ren-
dered absolutely useless. This was too much power to
give to any Governor. He thought the time was now come
When the colony ought to have these free institutions, and
then they might fearlessly look the question of the aboli-
tion'of transportation boldly in the face. He was very
happy to hear the liberal and enlightened views of the
Noble Lord, but when he was prepared to give up so much
he did not see why he should keep up any part of it at all.
He ,was very sorry indeed that the Government had so
robbed the emigration fund—( Hear, hear)—perhaps he
had used too strong a term—he would say misappropriated
these funds. Certainly no Government ever gave a
stronger assurance that that fund would be held sacred
for the purposes of sending out emigrants.—( Hear.)
Lord Goderich's despatch to Sir J. Bourke recommended
the application of the funds derived from the sale of lands
to the purposes of emigration, and yet during the last year
the whole of the emigration fund had been applied to the
service of the Government. That was a violation of an
express arrangement which had been entered into with
the Colonial Government, and the withdrawal of convict
labour at the same time gave the colonists at least very
good reason to complain. He trusted that that state of
tuings would not long be permitted to remain without a
remedy.
Mr. HAWES thought the House was much indebted
to the Hon. Baronet, the Member for Leeds, for the man-
ner.in which he had brought the question before it. There
was a collateral subject connected with the one imme-
diately before the House, which he thought deserving of
the attention of the Government. He meant the large
convict establishments at the Hulks, which were out of
the control of the Inspectors of Prisons, and presented an
anomaly in the general system of discipline which pre-
vailed in the prison establishments of the country. He
would suggest to the Noble Lord (J. Russell) the pro-
Priety of having some large buildings erected in the neigh-
bourhood of the hulks, where more accommodation, and
a better system of discipline could be provided for the eon-
Hear, hear.)
INfr. V. SMITH did not think that the present system
of transportation had been productive of that moral im-
provement, which would recommend it to the consideration
of
any Government. With regard to the quest ion of
Migration, which was in some degree connected with the
Present subject, as it would be shortly brought before the
,tionse, he would not enter at any length into it, nor did
Ile think it would be fair to mix it up with the present
ation, as there were so many other considerations in-
volved in it. The Government could not be justly charged
With
, a violation of the pledge with which they had been
the
by the lion. Member for Liskeard, with regard to
'lle devotion of the land funds to emigration. lie would
not detain the House any longer at that hour on this sub-
ject, however important it was. He thought that the
Legislature ought to be guided by considerations for the
welfare of the mother country and the colonies equally,
and.not take the part of either exclusively.
Mr. HUTT said that the Government had distinctly
pledged itself in 1836 that the money derived from the
sales of land should be exclusively devoted to promoting
emigration, and a proposal to devote those funds to that
purpose by legislative enactment, was opposed as supero-
gators,. How had the Government redeemed this pledge?
Why only last year they had abstracted 300,0001. from this
fund, and devoted it to other purposes. Under these cir-
cumstances was it surprising that acerbity should be felt
in the colonies, and expressed in that House ? They had no
more right to take money from the emigration fund to
build prisons, to pay police, or to give on outfit to Capt.
Hodson to New Zealand, than they had to build a new
Palace in the Park. or give a new pension to Lord Spring
Rice.—( A laugh.) He did not believe the Noble Lord
would devote those funds to improper purposes, but other
Ministers might arise less scrupulous, and who would
tamper with it for the most improper purposes.
Mr. LABOUCHERE had not last year pledged the
Government to devote, under all circumstances, the entire
Proceeds of the fund to emigration ; he had stated that it
Was desirable the proceeds of the fund should be de-
votaied, as far as possible, to that purpose, but that the
Mntenance of society must be kept up in that colony;
011 if the inhabitants would not tax themselves in any
er way for that purpose, it was the duty of the Govern_
Tent to devote a portion of that fund to such purposes..
le thought the protection of the aborigines was a charge
\';hich, in the first place, ought to be defrayed, and that
tno establishment of courts of justice and of the police was
a charge which it was right should be defrayed by the
()1911Y ; and if the colonists would not take an cnlargcti
e;
those
of these subjects, and provide means for defrayirei
1121se charges, so as to devote the whole of this fund tt
!migration then it was the duty of the Government tc
defray those charges out of that Lund in the first instance,.
isthe mother country could not justly be called upon
\1 .defray those expenses for the colony,—( Hear, hear. )
regard to the colony of South Australia, the govert
Purposes body there, finding that they wanted money for th e
r.lrP°ses of government, claimed the right of appropri -
4tmg the proceeds of the sale of lands for the object i,a
loiestion, and he thought they were justed in so doing..
th le Right Hots. Gentleman concluded by repeating that-
the Government had not held out any prospects which.
e had afterwards renounced, and which they were not.
still ready to adhere to.
t M. HUTT said, in explanation, that he did not svisir
o attribute to the Right Hon. Gentleman who had just
Tet4,s t down, any abandonment of former principles, but lie
o°ought he had mistaken the nature of' the question, as it
related to South Australia.
Sir NV. MOL ES WORTH, in reply said that he was•
sorry the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) did not think it
Proper to accede to his motion. As the Noble Lord.
2,4" not, however, expressed himself decidedly opposed to,
`..11e. motion, he ( Sir Wm. Mclesworth) hoped the period
h t soon arrive when transportation might be abolished,
.I_l would not divide the House on the motion, but het
twiloyuislidonl.eave it on the pipers of the House.
. The motion was then put, and negatived without a.