The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-02 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, March 1.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woo.
sack shortly after Five o'clock.

INSOLVENT DEBTOBS.

Lord BROUGHAM brought in a Bill to amend the
law with respect to insolvent debtors, which was read a
first time.

LABOURING POOR (IRELAND) BILL.
(Continued from our Third Edition of yesterday.)
Lord BROUGHAM desired to inform the No-de Lord
that he had no objection to the Act of Indemnity, he had
only observed that he considered that it went further
than Mr. Labouchere's letter warranted. The words of
the Bill were too comprehensive. " Any person who
may have committed any act," the most illegal and the
most oppressive act, would he justified by such words ;
or, again, " any proceeding for rendering such present
went effective." His only objection was to the framing
of the clause, and it was to that alone he desired to direct
the attention of the House. He knew it was most diffi-
cult to frame an indemnity clause, but they could in
Committee remedy the defects he, had pointed out.
Lord WEST\IEATH considered the suggestion of
the Noble Lord as most useful. He knew several lauded
proprietors, and he himself was among the number, who
had undertaken the whole of the electoral expenses of
their district, in order to escape the baronial assessments.
Lord ELLENBOROUGII said he had no objection to
the bill, but he did not consider that the Government
were entitled to the highest praise, which should only
be accorded to thus:, who had foreseen and prevented a
difficulty. But, with respect to the future, he enter
tained a very deep anxiety, and it would be most satis•
factory to him to I, row if her Majesty's: Government
would be able to offer him some explanation upon the
subject. He understood that it was their intention to close
the relief committees as soon as possible, relying on the
Destitute Persons Bill, and upon private and public
works, for the re lief of the people. There were
no less than 564,000 persons in Ireland who em-
ployed no labourers, but who cultivated their own
land themselves. Their whole substance depended upon
the potato, and when that failed they had no money to
purchase food; nor, unless they were taken from the
cultivation of their own land, would they have anything
to give in exchange for it. He would wish, therefore,
the Noble Marquis opposite to state what arrangements
would be made relating to the supply of seed for the an-
suing harvest.

FITZWILLIAM said the question no doubt
was one of great importance. The transition state
from the employment of the people under the Labour-
rate Act to the measures proposed to be submitted by
the Government was one of great consideration. Still
he thought, under the circumstances, the difficulty
would not be so great as was apprehended. With regard
to the supply of seed, it was undoubtedly important
that it should be forthcoming; still he considered it would
be dangerous for the Government to interfere and supply
the seed that might be required. It would be much better
to leave the matter in the hands of private individuals
—(Hear, hear.) But a more important question they
had to consider, was whether after all, the measures of
the Government would be adequate to meet the crisis !
This was a question of far more importance than the
one which the Noble Earl had referred to, and he
begged their Lordships, ho begged the other House of
Parliament, he begged the people of England generally
seriously to consider whether the measures would be
adequate, and whether the economy which seemed to
pervade the other House of Parliament, and prevailed
out of doors, would not prove, instead of economy,
prospective extravagance, and lay the foundation of
great expenditure in the future. He wished this country
would come to their senses upon this great question, as
he was sure they were not in their senses upon the
question. They did not understand the real nature of
she evil, and how deeply it might afflict them. He
thought that England was taking an improper view of
this question, and knew not the exact nature of the im-
pending evil.
. _ _

The-Marquis of LANSDOWNE considered that it
would have been utterly impossible and useless to have
called the Parliament together in the course of the
autumn to devise remedies for the calamity. And under
these circumstances her Majesty's Government thought
that it would be better to defer seeking for this indem-
nity, which would be more conveniently obtained at the
usual meeting of Parliament ; and when they did meet
then not a day was lost in seeking for that indemnity.
Most grateful was ho to Parliament and to the
country to find that when they were called together there
was such an expression of good will as that which
had been manifested on both sides of both Houses,
and he was par ticularly glad to find that there was such
an expression of geod feeling, and that when this
Bill was introduced that it was not likely to meet
with much opposition. With respect to the ob-
servations which had fallen from the Noble Lord
(Lord Monteagle), who had been exceedingly anx-
ious that the provisions of the Drainage Act of last
session should be carried out, but then he should recol-
lect that there were two sides to be considered, that it
might not be in the power of the tenant to obtain the
advantages to which he was entitled. Then two Noble
Earls (Earl Fitzwilliam and the Earl of Ellenborough)
who had followed the Noble Lord had complained that
sufficient forethought had not been shown in providing
for the distresses of Ireland; but it should be

recollected that no man had ever thought °Yoef
or anticipated, the extent of this distress. and£the result of the calamity which had befallen Irela
The importance of forwarding seed coAld
rated, but the Government felt it would be utterlf
impossible for them to undertake the .sowing of the
whole country.—(Hear.) Even the proposition of the.;
Government to allow a certain sum for purcli'asingrni.
for particular localities, had, instead of afforal;ng Jac'
ties of sowing the whole country with sa!ed, thee
not be oyez -
effect of increasing the price of seed and prev-enting:
those facilities which the Government considered till
grant of 50,0001. would have opened up. Ile "`"
always considered that the plan of making advances WI
the landlords would be most salutary, as they would bat
thereby enabled co improve their estates, and
quently to employ great numbers of their people.
theY
was not for him to say what advantages
might confer upon themselves by such aid from
Government, but it struck him forcibly that
the greatest advantages might be made to teal
to all parties. He hoped that the spring void
being a demand for labour in Ireland, and that to that
extent the distress of the people would be removed•
lie'
conse- •
did not say that this and other means were folly tide—
quate to meet the emergency, but they could not fail to'
contribute much to the alleviation of the distress. ft:
could not bear too high testimony to the way in *hie
the Parliament and the country came forward to relio:e
tie exigencies of Ireland ; but it should be borne 11.
mind that it was not a question of money, but 'of folael;
the salvation of a whole people.
The Bill was then read a second time.
PRISON DISCIPLINE.—TRANSPORTATION. ,
Earl GREY laid two Bills on the table,
reading of which he stated he should propose on Vridalf.
next. The first had reference to the existing sy.stein°
transportation, and to amend the laws respecting:7..
custody of prisoners, and the second proposed to alter
the management of Millbank and Parkhurst prisons.
Their Lordships then adjourned. the seconu

HOUSE OF COiIIIIOIVS, Mareith
WAYS AND MEANS.

The order of the day having been moved, or
Sir DE LACY EVANS postponed until Frici---1,
Monday the two motions of which ho had given notit..
0".;
the first having reference to the pay and promotion .
certain general officers, and the second for copies of Olt;
representations that had been trade of the inconveuit,
consequences resulting from an inequality in respect
ration stoppages from troops serving in the colonies.
Sir 11. DOUGLAS also postponed until Monday
n'
motion relating to the case of medical officers not i
c:uded in the warrant of July, 1846, for an improved a"
tirement to a limited number of medical officers.

POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL.
Mr. F. SCROPE, on the motion that the House doe
into Committee upon this measure, said he would tresrsi"
upon the attention of the House with a few observation!'
The rent of Ireland last year amounted to 15,000007
and vet upon the average the poor-rates only aceolle„
to ;id. in the pound. Under these circumstances,
thought some information ought to be given to the cevo
try upon the subject. In the union of Castle Bar the elta;
was still stronger. There the per tentage did
amount to more than fourpence-halfpenny in the potliV,
and the guardians having collected that amount, 13 c,
the doors upon the stacving poor and refused to once

any more. : Coat
Mr. LABOUCIIERE would not accept the in"ia-11,0
of the lion. Member to enter now upon a discussion oft'
poi!, law, because the House would have ample Oftecrj,
tunity on a future occasion to enter fully into that sumr,o;
He must confess he never ente• tamed the opinion t'o.
whatever poor-law should have been introduced Or
Ireland could have ever met the emergencies of theft
sent period, and it was altogether a miscalculation t'lf,
they could have framed a poor-law which could entire]•
relieve the distress of that country in its present cireow'
stances.

WAYS AND MEANS.
LOAN OF EIGHT MILLIONS. og
The House then resolved itself into a Commit""
Ways end Meanq,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER °elle;
and said, in deference of my friends behind me, and in all _ re,
dance with my own feelings, I rise to make a statement 1,0
ference to the suti.ct of finance which I brought before
o' 0,
House the other evening. And here I must express hn.,lvti
sibly I felt the kindness which the whole of the House u
stated.that evening.—( Hear, hear.) Sir, on that occasion I
that in order to meet the existing exigencies, I must notto soft
extraordinary demand on the Treasury of this kingdn.,;ente
that I must have recourse to a loan of 8,000,( 00/. I;;,,,dinif
great pleasure that the House had confirmed that Poc",ieng
with their sanction. I have now to announce that an arrange riot
has been entered into whereby I shall be able to obtain
loan, and I will move the House to Pass
Bet'
tain resolutions confirmatory of that arrang- cellar
It has not been the practice of the House that the han Co.lo
of the Exchequer mentioned his intention of contracting!_acted
It would be recollected that when the last loan was couL
for, an Act of Parliament had been passed authorising.ta`to the
generally. I thought it best, however, to mention it.
theo
House, and I have since felt that the course which lt,, to
adopted was the best—it was certainly the most respec :0110
this House. After considering it, lam sensible that the j woe
I have taken has been the most advantageous that e::::Lt the
been adopted. I had made every necessary
possibility of raising the money, and everybedilnquuniiC,Yehrelolisni
me that I should have no difficulty in obtaining
determininif
have found this to be the case,
bY lidated stock;
to grant interest at three per cent., COMM spi
This course we have adopted on the present eeeajalm°7 the
accordingly I announced to those gentlemen, who di" lidgted
honour of waiting upon me, that I would give eel's° ee
stock, and that parties bidding for the loan were to bid
much money for each ICJ/. stock. Two offers have been gno
which were identical, and the result of previous arrengeo;ll
between the parties. The offer made was of 89/. 103. for e; I
1001. stock. According to the best considerations whit lt of
have been able to give the subject, and also as the resooo
communications with various parties, and considering the paTo.
state of the money market, I thought the offer was an it,
tageous one, and I came to the resolution of aece4e7oo
With respect to the rate of interest at
whichhouldat
hae been contracted, it will be necessary that I
I made uP°~o,
some observations upon the statements which
made O. sit losoP
former occasion. What I had in view when I
nouncernent to the House was that I expected to raise tee..
at a rate of interest of between three and four per eern44.
thought that probably I might be rble to raise it at th.re,cl3o
a-half per cent. It was necessa-y to debit myself wttnit Res
amount as chargeable upon the revenue of the country! Brest
necessary that I should in part know what amount of tvonoe•
would fall upon the country as chargeable upon the reocl-ai
That sum, I am happy to say, does not quite equal threee'res of
half per cent. Upon the occasion of the last loan, th ite
interest was not so high as the present r;
interest. The West Indian loan wrs sued
'6
20,000,000/., the loan which I have now contracis oss
one of a considerably less amount. The price of Cfn9{„
then considerably higher than at pre..ent; it is not tner-raiseu'
be supposed that, with a smaller amount of loan to be Ire'
ar.d with the price of Consols considerably less, that thatOs°
dout
sent loan could be contracted upon the same a flys
terms as the former one. The interest that will be Pr te,
upon the present loan is as near as may be 3!. 7s. 6d. Pe to3P
A calculation has been made in the Treasury ofli.cest'.oo ec,
brings the rate of interest to 3/. 7s. per cent., and I,f
duct the amount of the dividend from January to 148. f
will make it 3/. 7s. 6d. per cent. The annual antee.t; °esLl
terest upon the loan will be 268,15C'. Bs., to which, " /1;110;
the amount of the Bank charges of management of t,. lea
it will make the total amount chargeable upon tf-tiglef:
270,800/. Bs., or a charge npen the whole of sontet";4 tb
than 3/. 7s. 6d. per cent. I have therefore contraght'pe;
loan 2a. 6d. per cent. less than the 34 per cent. vihi,c,,,old oft
nose I should have had to nay for the loan. I have s"'" 00,e,
discount, and I have also adopted the practice usually elpiostv,
in loans in France of giving stock, if required, for ever). ass fie
ment as they are paid, except the first. This will eae
extra charge upon the country, and will, at the 0°,4 10.4'1'
afford to Government an increased facility for raising hotieu"
The Right Hon. Member concluded by moving re.°
confirmatory of the loan : Pi"tif
. That towards raising the supply granted to her
mo,CO„,
the sum of 8,000,1 KY. be raised be annuities.
" 2. That every contributor to the said sum of B,"vticl,
shall, for every sum of 891. 10s. contributed and P-he rate
entitled to the principal sum of 1001. in annities, after tiiiistP
of 3!. per cent., to commence from the sth day of j;stii tt!
1847, and to be added to, and made one joint stock °AA"
existing Three per Cent. Consolidated Annuities, gu" ti%
able and transferable at the Bank of England at the sa,lptie-
and in the same manner, and subject to the same One
as the said annuities. nd ores'
out That the several annuities shall be charged on se ore
out of the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom
Britain and Ireland. r gar Or
" That every contributor shall, on the sth day be 4
1847, make a deposit of 12!. per cent., in such sum, 0310 of
she shall choose to subscribe towards raising the sal" oferrit,
8,00,000/., with the chief cashier or cashiers of the lor tns''
and Company of the Bank of England, as a security hereto,
ing the future payment on or before the days or tetras
after mentioned; that is to say-- do
" Payment of 12 per cent. on or before the 9th
April next. I MO.
" payment of 12 ditto ditto ditto 7th 0, Joe,
44 Payment of 12 ditto ditto ditto 11th of if,
" payment of 12 ditto ditto ditto 9th of Jaitiost•
" Payment of 12 ditto ditto ditto 6th
" Payment of 12 ditto ditto ditto 31 of Thet•
44 payment of 16 ditto ditto ditto 15th 0,

100 spier
" That all the monies so to be received by the e
(chef.
or cashiers of the said Governor end CmpanY ei eir °
A If
of England, shall be paid into the account of the receipt
11
her Majesty's Exchequer :at the Bank of England, "-IA 0,14
the monies belonging to the Consolidated Fund, eoos
be applied iiolll tune to time for any of the PurPhe
which money might be advanced or granted from tto 9 6
sohdated Fund of Great Britain, under the Act °f., leaf 1?(I
and 10th Victoria, cap. 107, or for such services ps,!6
voted by this House, or as may be authorised t° Al'lo te
thereout by any Act passed, or that may be poi.e.• the
present session of Parliament."
Mr. HUME wished to know whether the interest no°llrtiee
whale loan would commence in January or with each
paid? the
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER 1;11
he could only repeat what he had already state°, t ?be
whole, interest would commence from January, It se/
whole would not be necessarily paid until July' onor
contributor paid up the whole of his instalrneattioiderra 11
fore the 2d of July, he would have a host...years 0. 3, uet!l
July and a half in January, but if he did not Pit 00'
r'ter July, he would not have any dividend at Bat
January, when he would reaeive the year's dividend-
...id tir
the case of any stock given in exchange for mollel67;id tiein April, May, and June, the holf-yeuly dividend
paid in July.—(Hear, hear.) Bight
Mr. HUME had only to express his regret that th_eia the
Hen. Gentleman hod resorted to this mode of ebta7.o,3 ie:
loan. They were now to pay 8,938,547/. stock forlttb‘ey had
terest for that amount to the 31st January, though. bad Or;
not received it. He must say that they had made bring 3°'
gain, and he had no doubt that the loan, world
n°n
low terra:l!
4 per cent. stock in the market. By accepting sue
would et?!
a great loss would be sustained by the country. ne, as„, 11
have left it open to the chances of combination, butasori.et.
in the power of every one to compete far it in the mof
from I tcci
was informed that these were now at a premium obieete
IA per cent. It was the principle, however, thet,io
aue ncted! „,,
b)bance-ti
to, and he regretted that such a course had been
Mr. WILLIAMS expressed his sorrow that th of $1
of the Exchequer had proceeded in the beaten track By
!lions
f 175 mi the
Chancellors ot the Exchequer for the last forty
proceeding in this way, an additional suns 0 .
acted to
been added to the debt of this country. He °bjou to g"
pi inciple altogether, for he maintained that the the
sterling for every 11. of stock. He thought tint
ti kat tbs
jetty's Government had pursued a different erne years. had