The Sun.
London, England, 1840-06-20 00:00:00

be its effect •on the honest voter ? All the objections in the
Bill were cernmen to the rightful and the wrongful claimant.
The vexation and experse of travelling, of appearing :before
the Judge, of severe cross-examinations, of brow-beat-
ings, and reflections • upon his integrity, were all com-
mon to th 6 rightful as well as the wrongful claimant.
But slid the Noble Lord believe that a case
never broke down unless when a man went with
a fraudulent intention. Did he not know that the acci-
dental absence of a witness, or direct perjury—(for if the
Noble Lord imputed so much on the side of the claimant,
surely he might allow a little on the side of the objectors)—
(Loud cheers)—would break down the claim? Was he not
aware that men, who thought they had a good right, were fre-
quently withheld, from pressing it in a Court of Law, because
they were in doubt whether they could establish it satisfac-
torily ; or had the Noble Lord never heard of the uncertainty
of the law ?—( Hear, hear.) If out of 100 honest claimants
only four or five were defeated, or saddled with costs, could
any one doubt that that would act to the injury of the honest
claimant? Almost every clause of the Noble Lord's Bill for
keeping out the wrongful, acted just as effectually against the
rightful claimant. The Noble Lord had drawn a pretty picture
of an unfortunate claimant being opposed by a pauper • but the
Noble Lord should recollect that property was the best of
qualifications—that the, claim of the rick man must be a valid
one, and that it was much more likely that the case might be
reversed. Let him put the other side of the case. It was not
at ail improbaLle ; but whether such things took place in Ire-
land, he had no knowledge that such things occurred in Eng-
land, and he could suppose the ease of a man of great rank, and
power, and wealth, of an imperious and obstinate. tem-
per, and who, in the words of an Hon. Friend of his,
thought much of the rights of properties and titles of its
duties, he could suppose such a man opposing the claims
of voters. They knew of one man who, provoked, at the
opposition he had received at an election, had said that the
grass would grow in the streets of that towu, and bad
kept his word, and of another who had disfranchised 400
freeholders in an English county, and who, by a stroke,
had instituted 15 suits in equity, and 225 civil actions.
Such a man might be in London, or at his country seat,
while his agents, who were well paid, will do the work for
him. It would cost the powerful objector a mere nothing,
while even the personal expences of the poor claimant
would be a heavy tax upon him. To the rich man it was
but a picture less in his gallery, or a fine antique less in
his collection.—(Cries of " Oh, and cheers.") He had
no hesitation in saying that every clause in
the Noble Lord's Bill tended to barrass and
obstruct the voter in obtaining his just rights.—(Cheers.) The
effect, in short, would be, that a great many would abandon the
claim altogether. The franchise was a sacred public trust,
which should be used for the benefit of the public, and yet
when honestly seeking that their pecuniary interests were to
be seriously affected. They should also take into consideration
that men did net go to the registry with the secure spirit with
which they went to the poll. There had been few registra-
tions since 1826, at which a general election was expected;
and men who, when the candidates were declared, and when
perhaps the fate of a Ministry was to be sealed, would pay 501.
or run any trouble to record their votes in a hard-fought elec-
tion, would hardly go across the street to register.—( Hear,
hear.) Therefore, you ought rather to encourage than dis-
courage registration.—( Hear, hear.) Yet, supposing a Par-
liament. to last seven years, the Noble Lord's Bill would expose
the voter to fourteen law-suits, against which what human
fortitude or human patriotism could stand out?--(Hear, hear)—
and this was the principle which the House was now called
upon to assertor reject. Sir (continued the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman), there is another consideration which applies specially
to Ireland, that is the state of the franchise.—(Hear, hear.)
It is impossible to separate that from the subject of registration
—it is impossible to have a perfect law of registration, that is,
one which shall throw the greatest difficulties in the way of the
wrongful, and every facility in the way of the rightful claimant :
but it is still open for you to distinguish as clearly as possible
which are the rightful and which are the wrongful claimants,
and how can I decide upon a question like this without looking
at the state of the franchise? .and it is impossible not to feel
how much more the Irish franchise is restricted, as compared
with the English, even by the Reform Bill—how much it was
restricted even below what Pitt and Castlereagh, and Grenville,
and Wyndham, considered to be just. Looking at statistics, I
find that Westmoreland, with little more than 50,000 inhabi-
I tants, and covered by naked hills and barren moors, has more
voters than any Irish county—than Tipperary with 400,000 in-
habitants, or Cork with 800,000.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, I can-
not think that even the superiority of England in point of pro-
Irty can explain so enormous a disparity ; and, whatever way
look at the question, I think that the Irisk franchise ought to
be rather extended than restricted—if it is to be altered at all—
and I do not pledge myself to support any proposition for its
extension ; but if I hesitate to interpose to make it better, I
will not lay violent hands upon it to make it worse—(Loud
cheers)—and string as, is my regard for the great settlement
of 1832 I will never consent to make it final as against the
people alone; and if not restoring what it took away, I will
not consent to withdraw the smallest portion of what it gave.—
( Loud cheering.) But, Sir, this is not an Irish merely,
it is an imperial question. (Hear, hear, hear.)
I hope and trust that if the Bill is to pass at all, it
will pass modified by the amendment proposed to-night, and by
others conceived in the same spirit.—(Hear.hear.) But if
not I shall regard it as the fit st step in a great retrogade move-
ment—(Loed cheers)—as the, beginning of a scheme of which
the object is.to undo what was done at the Reform Bill.—
(Cheers.) Ido not believe the Reform Bill would be directly
attacked. Much as Hon. Gentlemen have talked of re-action,
they well know that there has been no re-action here—they
well know that it would not be safe to attempt to despoil our
great cities and towns of political power, and confer it again on
old walls and mouldering towers.—( Cheers and, cries of " Oh,
oh.") But what'cannet be done directly may be done indi-
rectly-L-( Hear; hear)—it, matters not what franchise is coo-
leered if the means of acquiring it are restricted. It matters
not how well the law of rights is framed, if not accompanied
by as efficient a 'law of reniedies--(Cbeers)—power that can
be obtained' only by wealth .or time, though nominally given to
the many, is really given only tei thefew. Let us have the most
demecnatic Reform Bill, and' let the Noble Lord frame oar
registiatioli, and political pOweemay et be in the hands of the
Aristocaey -And its toots.—(Cheers...) • The- Opposition begin
with. Ireland, and• they are wise.,,---(Cheers.) Distance, 'difference of religious belief—perhaps that unfriendly 'feeling, the
natural effect of snitch wrong inflicted, and much wrong en-
dured—(Cheers)—may have deterred the people of this country
resenting the insult offered to the Irish nation as they would
have resented the senile insult to themselves. But, Sir, I
grieve for the short-sightedness of my countrymen; Ireland
is the first field—it will not be the last.—(Loud cheers.) I
believe this struggle is just as much for Yorkshire and Kent
as for Cork and Kerry.—( Hear, hear.) And the day, when
the constituencies, worked upon by this Bill, shall send up to
this House representatives regarded by the Irish people as ene-
mies, will be dark and dreary for the liberties of England.
—( Cheers, and " Oh, oh.' ) But it is not necessary
that I should resort to topics like these.—(.Ministerial cries
of " Hear, hear.") The derisive expressions of gentlemen op-
posite, T suppose intimate, that they would be unjust to Ire-
land alone.—( Cries of" No, no.") Well, whether they mean
this injustice to be confined to Ireland or to extend to hog -
land, I hardly know how to express my reprobation of so
odious and disgusting a measure.—(Cheers, and " Oh, oh.")
The Noble Lord would revive the distinctions abolished as a
ground of religiourAiSabilities, as the ground of political disfran-
chisement.—( Cheers.) The 'Reform Bill giving only a small
part of what the Bill of 1829 took away, he would now with-
draw more than the Reform Bill gave.--( Cheers.) His Bill
is made up of the very worst parts of the very worst Bills that
had been framed upon the subject.—(lronical cheers from the
Opposition.) Is this the-treatment which the great Statesman
who proposed the union, promised—
paribus se legibus ambm,
Invietae gentes a•terna in fcedera mittant."
I appeal to that great constitutional settlement ! Resolved as I
am to 'preserve it against-the open enmityof the Learned Mem-
ber for Dublin, I am yet more determined to defend it against
thinaare dangerous friendship of the Noble Lord.—(Cheers.)
Of-this 1 am sati fled, that for one repealer made by the elc-
(pence of the Learned Member for Dublin, the measure of the
Noble Lord; if earried, will make tea.—( Hear.) And deeply as
I should regret that, I cannot help saying that I should con-
sider it bet the, necessary consequence as of effect to cause—
(Hear, beer)—and it would be puerile, nay, hypocritical, to
go on misgoverning, and expecting that the misgoverned would
yield a quiet siibmission--( Hear, hear)—to inveigh against agi-
tation, and yet keep up the grievances that sustain it--(Cheers)
—to raise the cry of treason and ciyhl war against the advocates
of repeal, while you do your utmost to annul the union of in-
terest turd affection, without which the Legislative Union must
be only an empty name:-- (Tremendous cheering. )
The House divided, when the numbers were---
For the amendment -
Against it • 289
Majority for Ministers . — 7

-. , •
The announcement was received with very great cheeririg
from the Liberal benches. ,
Lord STANLEY said it was not his intention to offer any
opposition to the amendments of the clause proposed by the
Noble Lord opposite--(Cheersj—arid he presumed that on the
other side there would be no objection to have those amend-
ments
made now, before the Committee reported progress.
Lord MORPETH was understood to say that he would offer
no objection. '
The amendtnents were then agreed to without discussion.
Lord STANLEY, in moving that the Chairman do now
report progress, had otily to say that however much he re-
gretted the decision to which the Committee had come, and
however much the Bill had been injured by that decision, it
would not have the effect of inducing him to withdraw from the
further •prosecution of the Bill in the Committee.--(Tory
cheers.) He would endeavour to make the Bill, in its
further progress' as perfect as he could.—( Tremendous
Tory cheering.) As-the Noble Lord opposite had,fixed Monday
next for the Registration Bill-for England, and the Hon. and
Learned Solicitor-General for-Ireland had also fixed that day
for his BM for amending the 'Registration in Ireland, he con-
cluded that the House ould acitiere'to the resolution to which
it' had already costio,,thaethis mttaimie should take precedence of
those Bills.-(Cries'of 4' Oh, oh !" from.-the Liberal: benches,
responded •to :by/cheers- from Opposition.) The question
was distinctly raised upon- the motion of the Hon. !Member for
Halifax,' and as that motion was negatived,. the House assented
to the, principle that this meesure_should have precedence, and
he would therefore move that the Chairman do now report pro-
'}tress, and'ask leaire to sit-again on Monday,-.
• Lord JOHN RUSSELL said if the Noble Lord moved that
his pill should be taken into consideration on Monday, previous
to the Government Orders of the. Day, he should certainly give
the motion his decided opposition—(Cheers)--and propose
some other day.
Mr. O'CONNELL said that,Ciay six months.
Lord STANLEY said he did not propose to take precedence
of the other,Gevernrnent. Ord+ of the Day. The Noble Lord
I proposed to takethe third reading of two Bills on Monday on
the sauce subject, which would thus be passing through the
House at the -same time7-a clause of one being discussed one
night, and the next a clause ,of the other. He thought it
would be much better for the cenvenienoe of the House, and
for the despatch of public businessif the House Would decide
whether they would proccedwith his Bill, or that of the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman, the .Solicitor-General. If the louse
were of opinion that the Bill of the 'Solicitor-General afforded
a better basis for Jegislation on the subject than any other Bill,
he should bow to the decision of the House, and not trouble
it further ; on the other hand, if they'deeided this Rill was the
ovie most. desirable to proceed with, he trusted they would
come to that decision on Monday night.—(Hear, and",,ow,
now.")
The House then resumed.
Lord J. RUSSELL then rose to propose an amendment to
the mod _a, that 'that Bill should be taken up on Monday
next. He should propose, if the House did not -go on with
this Bill, to go into Committee on that of his Hon. Friend
the Solicitor-General. He therefore proposed that this Bill
should be re-committed on Thursday next.—( Cheers.)
Sir R. PEEL said the Noble Lord's opposition was without
precedent. His Noble Friend' 'did not intend to take prece-
dence of other public business on Monday, but to ask the
House to give his Bill precedence to the Registration Bill
of the Solicitor-General for Ireland. The House had
determined they would go fairly into Committee on
his Noble Friend's Bill ; but all that had been done was toe de.
bate its general principles, the proper subject for debate
on a second reading, and, after a long discussion, they had
only got through the first clause, with their own amendment.
They would-net permit his Noble Friend to amend his Bill
according to the sense of .the: Honse,i but adopted a course at
variance to its uniform usage.
The original motion and the amerulment having been put,
Lord HOWICK said, that before the House proceeded to a