The Sun.
London, England, 1841-10-01 00:00:00

(Tory cheers.) Could any man deny that it was im•
portant to make these statements to the House?—
(Cheers.) He was not going to make any comment o.
them. But was any man to say that a Minister of th.
Crown was to be prevented, by technical rules—without
Vaerettee to party, or commenting on what had occurred
in a former debate-41'cm removing from the minds ot
Members and of the public a delusioti of the most mis-
chievous kind, and stating to the House the information
which he had received?—(Tory cheers.)
Mr. GIBSON said the Right Hon. Bart. had misunder-
stood him. It had not been his object to prevent the
Right Hon. Baronet from making his statement. He
only meant to complain that the statement wa.!'
made without giving Honourable Members notice
so that they might be prepared to defend
bemselves.—(Hear, hear.) The effect of the statement
would be exactly ilia which the Right Hon. Baronet
said he wanted to avoid—to spread delusion throughout
the country.—(Hear, hear.) Ho (Mr. Gibson) had
said nothing about hospitals. He did not think that
typhus fevers were admitted into hospitals, on account of
their infectious character.—(Great laughter from the
Tories.) He had received letters from Manchester
stating that there were thousands afflicted with that
fever.—(Hear, hear.) It might easily be understood
that the word " thousands" was not used in a literal
sense, but only to signify that very great numbers were
suffering so.—(Hear, hear, from the Opposition, and
much cheering and laughter from the Tories.) Hon.
Gentlemen opposite might laugh, for they seemed
disposed to take the distress and sickness in a very
jocular manner—(Hear)—but he had received letters from
physicians in Manchester, stating that great numbers in
that town were dying from want of food, and that, in
such cases,' death was usually preceded by typhoid
symptoms ; so that, in truth, the victim might be said
to die of fever. He drew, however, one consolation from
the statement of the Right Hon. Baronet, and from
the disposition of the Government to disbelieve that dis-
tres3 existed. His consolation was, that they seemed to
intimate to the people that if the existence of distress
was proved, they were prepared to remove it.— (Hear.)
• Mr. COBDEN thought that the increase in the ac-
counts of the Manchester Savings' Bank was owing to the
extension of its branches.—(Hear, hear.) He had an
opportunity also of exposing a fallacy in the comparison
as to the proportion of houses to population in Bolton
and Liverpool. It was proved in the Statistical Section
of the British Association at Liverpool, that there were
in that town between 50,000 and 60,000 persons living in
cellars, whereas the persons 'lodged in that 'manner in
Bolton were very few.—(llcar, hear.) The Right Hon.
Baronet had said that the years 1835 and 1836 were
yeas of fictitious prosperity. Even if he granted that,
still it would follow that 1837 was the year of
revulsion ; and yet the Right Hon. Baronet chose
that year, which must naturally be the one of greatest
distress, as the one from which to prove the progress of
prosperity. The Right Hon. Baronet stated that 1,402
per Sons were admitted into the Fever Hospital in 1837 ;
but lie did not say that, according to 'the Report, a very
large number of the sick were refused admittance.—
(Hear, hear.) The course pursued by the Government
would go merely to irritate the people.—(Hear, hear.)
They heard the unanimous voice of the people in the dis-
tressed districts, imploring her Majesty not to prorogue
Parliament until the cause of their sufferings were in-
quired into, and they refused all inquiry.—(Hear, hear.)
The Right Hon. Baronet produced a fallacious, he would
not say a garbled, account of the saving's' banks, to
make it appear that no distress existed.—(Hear, hear.)
He would, however, implore the Right Hon. Baronet to
take this question into his consideration as a statesman,
and give it impartial inquiry.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. DARBY hoped the Hon. Gentlemen opposite
would learn from what had passed, to abstain from
making exaggerated statements, and spreading unfound=
ed alarm.

Mr. C. BULLER had often known statements that
distress existed to be met by Ministers with the state-
ments that there was no distress.—(Hear, hear.) On
this occasion the denial would be very • inconvenient to
the House, as communications would Le received from
all parts of the country, to the very end of the Session,
calling on the representatives to re-affirm the existence
of and the extent of the distress. He could not take
the testimony of Mr. Mutt, the Assistant Commissioner,
as conclusive, for he thought it likely that relieving
officers would be disposed to make light of the distress.
Mr. Mott showed that his judgment was not to
be relied on when he stepped' out of his
way to give an opinion as to the manner
in which the people of England ought to be housed,
and chose Liverpool as the model, whereas it was well
known that in that city the people were worse lodged,-
and the proportion of houses to population less than
any where else in England.—(Hear, hear.) The Right
Hon. Baronet first admitted the distress, and then re-
ferred to statistical details to show that the country
was never in a better state, and that there never was so
little sickness and mortality in Manchester. Nay, the
people there never had so. mush money in the savings'
banks. He thought the Government ought to abstain from
making such statements. It would lead to the opinion
that they were disposed to underate the distress, and to
neglect a remedy.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord SANDON hoped that Gentlemen opposite would
take the advice of the Hon. and Learned Member near
him (Mr. Darby) and abstain from exaggerated state-
ments which were calculated to mislead and alarm the
public, and to go forth not only over this country but all
over the world.—(Hear, hear, from the Tories.) With
respect to the typhus fever, it was well known that it
was chiefly for the reception of that class of disease fever
hospitals were established, in order to separate the
patients from their families.—(Loud cheers.) He be-
lieved that the accounts of the public distress had been
exaggerated ; and he had reason to think that distress
had been of late diminishing.
Major AGLIONBY expressed his belief that any
exaggeration -of the distress of the people could not
tend to diminish the evil, but of the existence of very
lamentable distress no doubt could be entertained.
Mr. HARDY defended the conduct of the Govern-
ment, who had, he believed, pursued the proper course
in their investigations on the subject of the statements
which had been made to the House. There had been
over-production among manufacturers, and it was to that
circumstance he attributed the recurrence of distress
among the working classes.
. Mr. ALDAM stated that one of the causes of the dis-
tress which had of late prevailed was to be found in the
fact, that although there had been no scarcity of goods
during the autumn, there had not been, as was the case
during former years, a rise of prices in the autumn
trade. Such a circumstance led to a scarcity of
work, and offered an unfavourable prospect for the
coming winter. It was alsci to be observed,
that during the five years which preceeded 1830, nearly
half a million less of goods had been exported than dur-
ing the five years which preceded 1840. The popula-
tion, however, had increased, while trade had diminished.
EXCHEQUER BILLS FUNDING BILL,

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, haying
moved the Order of the Day for the House going into
Committee on this Bill,

Mr. WILLIAMS took the opportunity of expressing
his belief, that if the Right Hon. Gentleman had had
recourse at once to a loan, he would have obtained a
better bargain for the public, and would have more se-
curely obtained the obPet he had in view. The Right
Hon. Gentleman's proposal would, he believed, add
5,000,0001. instead of 2,500,0001. to the national debt.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that his arrangement was to be considered rather of
exchanging a debt than of croatiug a new one. With
regard to a loan, he did not think it could be obtained
upon such favourable terms as the Hon. Gentleman
seemed to imagine. A loan had never been obtained at
the rate of less than eighteen or nineteen shillings in the
pound.