The Sun.
London, England, 1847-10-06 00:00:00

in the pound ; why, what could be so alarming as the
fact that solvent houses were failing ?—(Hear, hear.)
And why failing ? Not because they had speculated
largely, or had been imprudent, but because the ordi-
nary commercial facilities, on the faith of which they
had made their engagements, were stopped. These
were the houses that had carried our goods to the
ends of the earth—houses mostly of fifty years'
standing, that had " grown with our groeeth. ' The
oaks of the forest, if cut down, could not be replaced
in a year, nor could we at once get large capitalists
to embark in enterprise, or obtain the requisite tact
and skill. In letting these houses be swept away, we
let our trade and our means of trade be swept away.
—(Hear, hear.) Money mast not be merchandise.
The value of money depended wholly upon
its being legal tender, and upon its issues
being maintained in equilibrium with the wants
of society, and not at all upon its convertibility,;
and, therefore, it was idle to talk of " paper-rags,'
and ask what they were to be paid in ; that
which cancelled debt was in itself payment. Money
ought to be unchangeable in value, and all other
things should be compared with it. But, in taking
gold for coin, we raised it above its natural level by
giving it a monopoly - every multiplication of paper
abated the value of the coin ; but, at the same time,
gold bars in their quality of merchandise had a ten-
dency to rise ; this was not perceived till sovereigns
lecame scarce, and then the whole paper system
crumbled, because the base had been taken away.
Until we could do away these perpetual fluctuations
between paper and gold we could not have a me-
tallic and paper currency together. Look at France
as badly off as ourselves ; look at America, with
perpetual panics; but in Brazil they had a purely
inconvertible paper, and no panics. There were no
panics in England during the war. Some would
have it that the exportation of gold to buy wheat
caused the present mischief ; but during the war we
exported it in much greater quantities, for subsidising
and not for food.—(Hear, hear.) However, nothing
seemed likely to enlighten the public upon this sub-
ject but the scourge being applied; it would be ap-
plied, and it was richly deserved.—(Hear.)
The CHAIRMAN said it had been intimated to him
that one of the Members of the Northern Division
of the county, who attended at great personal in-
convenience, was, before the resolutions were put,
desirous of addressing the meeting—he meant Mr.
Newdegate.—(Cheers.) That gentleman, as they
were well aware from a perusal of the debates in
Parliament, had evinced great attention to and know-
ledge of the subject, and he had great pleasure in
introducing him to the meeting.
Mr. NEWDEGATB, M.P., was then received with
vociferous cheers. He commenced by observing that
it certainly was at some personal inconvenience that
he attended on that occasion, but, having the honour
to represent a portion of that great commercial com-
munity, and disapproving, as moat of them did, of
the present monetary laws, he could not deny him-
self the opportunity of stating that, in his opinion,
the present circumstances of the country required the
deepest attention of the Government, and also the
interference of the Legislature; and, although he
could not agree in all the remedies proposed by
those present who had for years past so distinguished
themselves in the inquiry, he did agree with them as
to the evil under which the country was now suffer-
ing. Circumstances were daily occurring of so grave
a nature—(he would not say unparalleled, for similar
events had occurred in 1823, 1826, 1829, and 1840)
—that seeing their constant recurrence, unless a man's
mind was bigoted beyond all chance of conviction, or
any compromise of opinion, he must surely agree
with them that the time had arrived when a thorough
inquiry ought to be instituted into their cause and
lamentable effects. He joined them most cordially in
urging upon the Legislature an immediate inquiry.—
(Cheers.) In 1844 he (Mr. Newdegate) took an
active part in the House of Commons in opposing the
Bank Charter Bill. On the second reading he ob-
jected particularly to the restrictive clauses, and when
in Committee, he proposed a resolution (originating
with the Private Bankers' Committee) condemnatory
of the clause which arbitrarily limited the issues of
the Bank to 14,000,0001. For so fixing this amount
he at the same time saw no reason, except it was that
11,000,000/. was due by the Government to the
Bank, besides tjaere being at the time an issue of
3,000,0001. Exchequer-bills.—(Flear, hear.) He
(Mr. Newdegate) therefore proposed that the Bank
should have the power, in cases of emergency like the
present, to issue 22,000,000/., that being about the
average of their issues for some years previous.—
(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Newdegate) confessed he
did not go to the vote ; but he would ask them,
would it not have been worth something to the com-
mercial interests if the currency had been rendered
so far elastic as to enable the Bank td replace that
money which they had been obliged to pay for corn,
and thus in some degree meet the present exigencies
of the country ?—(Cheers.} And what did they now
find ?—that the Bank had only seven millions of bul-
lion. In September last -they possessed about four-
teen millions. The potaitoedisease then occurred—
this was succeeded by a bad harvest; and it was es-
timated in the House of Commons by Mr. Baring, a
former Chancellor of the Exchequer, that the loss to
the country was not less than 16,000,0001. What
had followed ? They had now had a good harvest ;
but at a moment when plenty awaited them, owing to
the iron rule of the money laws, they were unable to re-
cover from past disasters, or to take avdantage of future
prospects. (So we understood the argument of the
Hon. Gentleman to be.) And for what were they
subjected to this iron rule ? lie believed the inten-
tion to be by degrees to bring them down to a condi-
tion in which the monetary affairs would depend
solely upon the state of the exchanges.—(Hear, hear.)
Now he (Mr. Newdegate) was one who never wished
to deny the position of an adversary. If, therefore,
this country was solely an exporting country, and
depended wholly upon foreign trade, he would admit
that their money should be measured by their foreign
trade. He (Mr. Newdegate) did not undervalue
their foreign trade, but he could not shut his eyes to
the fact that it formed only one-third to two-thirds of
their trade ; and he would ask whether they ought to
give preference to one out of three, or whether two
interests ought not to have the preference of one ?
(Hear, hear.) He would asl another question.
Were they, the people of England, unincumbered ?
Were they not nearly 800,000,0001. in debt, and
had they not annually to pay 28,000,0001., the in-
terest of that debt, besides the great and varied liabi-
lities of one to another? Was it reasonable then
that th'y should thus be tied down to this approved
system of exchanges ? He would not enter into the
deep abstract question respecting the value of money,
but ho could not but allude to one or two circum-
stances. The people of Newcastle, in an interview which
they had recently had with the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, stated, that, unless some relief was af-
forded to them, they must be participators in the
common suffering which pervaded other parts of the
kingdom. What was the answer they received ? The
Right Hon. Gentleman replied that the evils of
which the deputation complained were beyond the
reach of human interference, and that he hoped the
circumstances of the country would be alleviated, and
the existing distress pass away. He (Mr. Newde-
gate) entertained great personal respect fbr the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, and he must say that he was
the most hopeful man of his acquaintance.—
(Laughter.) Last session a deputation waited upon
the same Right Hon. Gentleman, and told him that,
in consequence of a want of money, they were not
able to procure food for the people. The Right
Hon. Gentleman, as usual, expressed his confidence
in the temporary depression, and believed it would
speedily pass away. A Mr. Nameless, a Member of
the House of Commons, came to him on that occa-
sion, and, referring to the manner in which the Chan-
cellor had met the representations of the deputation,
said his name ought to be, instead of Sir Charles, Sir
Confident Wood.—(Laughter.) Now, what was the
condition of time country ? They had been obliged to
expend 7,000 000/. to make up the loss of the crops
be—
eY bald made a loan of 8.000,000/. to relieve the
destih),
in rauw of Ireland, and 34,000,0001. had been paid
tittle short calls'
ins, so that during the last year
beyond the ord a? 50'000,0001* had been advanced
'during the war v
, e" Payments of the country. Now,
loans for that 711 an average of three years, the
50,000,000/. ; but hiss
,he amounted annually to
gether an unproductive / must recollect, was alto-
tp:nditure. On the other
alto-
hand, with one exception,e
:Zia paid during the
last year were with a view toe
d their ex-
He would
a*, then, with their imports Xo_ubwledithieni,
ports increased nearly one-third
sufficient to meet all exigencies—whether gthis Wealth
ters ought to be forced upon the counteeyet dials_
of one or two great commercial houses -e
(Cheers.) The fact was, that a party in the Stab,
was was determined that gold only should constitute
capital and money. Sir Robert Peel, during the last
session, said that gold was capital, and in that
sense differed from paper. To maintain this doc-
trine it mattered not what became of the tradesman
or the labourer ; live or starve was to the advocate%
of these opinions a matter of comparatively little
thought or consequence.—(Hear, hear.) Ile! (Mr.
Newdegate) was not adverse to convertibi-
lity ; but the man was incapable and unfit to
be Prime Minister of this great kingdom who was
bigoted in the support of one doctrine, or who would
sacrifice the interests of the country for the sake of
one crude opinion.—(Cheers.) He thanked them
sincerely for the manner in which they had listened
to him; and begged to add his own sad conviction
that, until an inquiry had taken place, as suggested
by the resolutions proposed, and until they had a
monetary system adapted to the circumstances of the
44°11.44*Y, they could not hope for permanent pros-
PerltY- Ile (Mr. Newdegate) believed that if in-
citirrYti*lt"sPecgully urged upon the Government
t conaraereial interests could show that the
present system, from no fault of their own, threatened
peal with impending believed if such a

course was taken, the present Prime Minister, with
whom he (Mr. Newdegate) differed upon many ques-
tions, but honoured, for many reasons, would not
turn a deaf ear to them, but give them a patienthear-
ing.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman said he
hoped they would excuse his hasty appearance, and
concluded by joining in a fervent prayer that their
petition and remonstrances might obtain from the
Government and Parliament a due and patient hear-
ing.—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. Mills TZ, in obedience to loads calls, next
came forward, and said he was anxious that some
gentleman from the body of the room should first
have addressed the meeting, but he had no objection
briefly to state his views upon the subject they were
met to discuss. Sure he was, that if the people of
Birmingham thought as he did upon the question,
that room would not have contained a tithe of those
who would have been anxious to gain admission.
Upon it depended altogether the prosperity or ruin
of the country.—(Cheers.) He had always said that
free trade, unless it was accompanied by an altera-
tion of the currency, would increase rather than
alleviate their difficulties.—(Hear, hear.) He was
aware that there had not been suffieient time (and
also in consequence of a bad harvest) to judge of
the effects of the late free-trade measures ; but of
this he felt assured, that they felt the present dis-
tress in a tenfold degree in consequence of the exist-
ing money laws. He had always said, in the House
of Commons and elsewhere, that 19-20ths of the
evils which affected the people of this kingdom
were to be attributed to the grossest ignorance of
the principles of government; and, moreover, that, if
justice had guided legislation, corn-laws never would
have existed, and never been wanted, because corn
would always have been remunerative.—(Hear, hear.)
He believed their difficulties might be eased in a day,
relieved in a week, and a state of prosperity be per.
manently established.—(Cheers.) Reference had
been made to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. And
Sir Charles Wood, with whom he sometimes came in
contact, was a pleasant, good-humoured gentleman—
(Laughter)—but he was the most flippant superficial
man he ever met with.—(Laughter and cheers.) He
recollected he was once examined before a Committee
of which Sir C. Wood was chairman, and Sir Robert
Peel a member. Sir Charles came to him a short
time before he was called before the Committee, and
said, " We are going to examine you to-day, but there
are two things you must not mention." " What are
they ?" inquired I. " Currency and the corn-laws,'
replied the Chancellor.—(Laughter.) "But you can-
not examine me without my mentioning them." "But
you must not," said Sir Charles.—(Laughter.)
"But I can't help it," replied I.—(Roars of laughter.)
" Well," said the Hon. Member, " I was called in ;
we went to work, and in a quarter of an hour we were
at a dead stand-still.—(Loud laughter.) I was then
out fOr an hour, and upon my return it was deter-
mined that I should be examined generally." The
Hon. Gentleman proceeded to say, that, in 1844, a
Right Hon. Baronet read a part of this evidence in
order to controvert some statements he (Mr. Muntz)
had then made in the House ; but, finding that every
quotation made against him, he shut up the book with-
out reading the whole of it. It was very easy for a
person to contradict another when he did not under-
stand the question upon which they were speaking ;
and he (Mr. Muntz) believed that in the course of
twelve months the people of this country would
generally believe that the Right Hon. Baronet to
whom he alluded—oracle as he was considered to be
never understood the subject of the curreney.—
(Cheers.) People were now-a-days in the habit of
saying " Oh, we admit that the return to cash
payments was an evil—true it is that it bas done
injury—but, by returning to the old system, we
shall be doing as great injustice as that of which
we complain." Now, he (Mr. Muntz) would
say that this was a great fallacy; for he should
contend that justice could not be done until all prices
and all debts were reduced to the standard and
prices of 1790. That was the position in which they
now stood. When the Bank Charter was under dis-
cussion, in 1844, he had contended for a margin
upon which the Bank of England in cases of emer-
gency might work—that they might possess elastic
powers in cases of pressure like the present. This,
however, was resisted, for the Bill of 1844 was
passed to work out the Bill of 1819.—(Hear, hear.)
He (Mr. Muntz) confessed that he should now be
sorry to see that Bill repealed.—(Eiear, hear.) He
had no doubt it would shortly work out the only
remedy for the whole evil.—(Cheers.) A great deal
had been said about gold. Now, he had no objec-
tion to gold. What he complained of was, that the
coin was made of the wrong quality. After referring
at some length to the operation of the present effects
of the currency, the Hon. Gentleman said all those
persons who took the views he did upon this question
had for years past been stigmatised as " madmen "
he had often been called a madman—but he had en •
tertained the views he now advocated for thirty-five
years, and he found them to be correct.
Holding such opinions, and having for so
long a period tested them by practical ex-
perience, it was not very likely be should give them
up to those who said that free trade would
cure all the evils under which they were suffering.
Now, the first proposition he should make, by way of
remedy, would be the suspension of Peel's Bill,
although he thought any alteration short of an altera-
tion of the standard would fall short of the purpose.—
(Hear, hear). But it would be impossible, in the
first instance, to deb.ate the latter question. There
must be in the outset a temporary suspension of
Peel's Bill, and then they could talk of the standard.
Chat being done, he should then contend that there
should be no connexion between the Government and
the Bank of England—(Cheers) —that the Bank
directors should not have the power, as at present, of
controlling the circulation of the country.—(Cheers.)
He would say, without giving offence, that it was not
right that twenty-four gentlemen, all connected in
various ways with trade and commerce, should have
the power of regulating the monetary affairs of the
country.—(Hear.) He would have then a national
bank, the commissioners placed at its head being made
responsible to Parliament.—(Cheers.) Then he
could increase the circulation of notes until ad-
vanced so far as to meet the necessities of the
country; and, in conclusion, he could have a
silver standard according to the average price of
wheat.—(Cheers.) But he saw no wish to do anything.
If they could obtain a Parliamentary Committee, con-
sisting not of men who wished to trap or make fools
of those subjected to examination, but of men who
wished to do right, he could see no difficulty in re-
lieving the country and rendering it again prosperous.
—(Cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman, atter referring
to some misunderstanding between himself and a
local paper, again deprecated free trade unless there
was an alteration in the money laws. There was not
trade in the country that could compete with
toreigners—they were quite as clever as we are; and
if the English people thought that, under the present
money laws, they could compete with foreigners, they
were either excessively ignorant or excessively con-
ceited.—(Laughter.) If they continued the at-
tempt at free trade with the present monetary system
there would not be one trade in Birmingham worth
carrying on. The Right Hon. the Chancellor of the
Exchequer said there was no scarcity of money ; but
if he had, as in his case, bills running of one month,
two months, and six months, and could only get one
month's bills discounted, and those at inordinate rates
of discount, he would then know what the want of
money was. It was very easy for the Chancellor of ,
the Exchequer, who could borrow money, by way
of loan, at a great loss to the country, to talk in this
manner. The fact was, he (Mr. Muntz) never heard
such remarks from the members of the Governmen

but he felt a disgust for Parliament.—(Cheers.) He
told the Chancellor of the Exchequer that he did not
care a farthing for the opinions of Ministers who had
no practical experience. Now he (Mr. Muntz), for-
sooth, went to Parliament to learn the business and
wants of the country from gentlemen who went out
shooting, or else walked about the streets for the
greater part of their lives. These men, he was to be
told, knew more of his business than he did, who had
for forty years been practically engaged in it. If,
however, his business was to be carried on by such
parties, he was afraid it would be done to little profit.
Mr. Muntz concluded a long speech amidst tumul-
tuous applause..
At the conclusion of Mr. Muntz's speech, a gentle-
man situated at the reporters' table rose to address
the meeting, and being asked his name, he stated
himself to be Mr. Taylor, of Bakewell, Derbyshire.
Being recognised as the well-known writer upon the
subject of the currency he was loudly cheered, and
invited into the orchestra amongst the other speakers.
Mr. TAYLOR, on presenting himself, said he had
travelled seventy miles to attend that meeting, and
he was in hope of greater good resulting from it than
appeared to be the expectation of Mr. Muntz. They
man new
by the Chancellor that a repetition of distress WAS like a tale
y urn" told. Former difficulties they to believe would
of the countr
that their difilcultiree adequate to the emergency, and
but temporary, but they all
the Right Hon. Gentleman
was greatly
mistakenmi upon
ethhat point. The other
day he fell up paperExchecontained the speech
giute r, when he intro-
()F the Chancellor of the
(iuced his budget last year, andknowviroutl perhaps be
hat thet Right
interesting to the meeting to
Hon. Gentleman then said. He would
minent passage of his speech :—" I do n(lot,o" esaldprthoe-
Chancellor, " anticipate anything like the results that
took place on former occasions, and I should be very
sorry to say anything calculated to create alarm; and
I also confidently trust that the experience of former
years has not been lost upon the merchants and
traders. I am glad to hear from all quarters
the trade of the country is of a sound character,
and not of that speculative character of former
years. I am of opinion that the provisions
of the Bill of 1844 have been sound in