The Sun.
London, England, 1812-01-10 00:00:00

CHARITABLE. QONATIONS.

• Mr. LOCKHALLT, after'stating the importance of
exercising the utmost vigilance whit respe& to
charitable donations, the best mode of doing %villein
was, in his .opinion, by git'ing the greatest publicity
to their existence; and, after
detailing at consider-
able length,- the means which it was his intention
to propose for. that purpose, moved (or, and obtain-
ed leave to bring.in a BA tor the registry of Chari-
table Din iLions, and -for pros iding a more sum.
trlary remedy for the correction ofAbuses therein.

FINANCE:

,Mr. FKEENIANTLE moved tfit. there be laid be-
fore the :House a return of the income and charges
of the Co4ulidated,Fund.: for the year-4 ending- th
sth of:January t
and the sth of .riauary SI
an account of the,amounta the war taxes atria&
.eac.h period,

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIECLUER observed,
that the Hon. Gentleman had done him the honour
to.eommunicate ro him the motion which he had
just submittt.xl to the with
others Of a similar nature, which -he understood it
was his intention also to prop:.se. respea tar
two of these three motions, be had Ino hesitatioix
-in- objeffing..-to-thern; because -they would- prodnee
only what would be found in the annual accounts,
that by law must be raid before Parliament. Whets.
those accounts should come before the House, the
Hon, Gentleman: might extra& those parts which
he required, and on them. found any motion, that he
thought proper. As to' the third motion,. he had
told the Hon. Gentleman that , if he would -wait
twenty-four hours, he would 'inquire whether the
papers to be produced by it were in the same predi—
cament as those to which 'he had just alluded, arid
if nor, that he would consent to their immediate
produ&i on.

- Mr. TIERNEY said, that he understood his Hon.
Friend to wish nor for the details of the accounts,
but for the result. It was well known that the de-,
tailed accounts were , never presented until a very
late period of the Session, and he contended that
such a mode of opposition as that resorted to by the
Right 'Hon. Gentleman, would put a stop to all.
motions for pa;.ers relative to Finance.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHRQUER denied
that these accounts were presented at a period 63
late as that described by the Hon. Gentleman. He
had no objection whatever to the production of the
information, but he saw no reason :for departing
front the bidinary course.
Mr. HORNER thought the opposition of the Right
Hon. Gentleman quite novel in its kind. During
short experience of Parliament, he' bad every Ses-
sion seen motions agreed to, for papers in distinCt
anticipation of the annual accounts. The Papers
Moved for by his Hon. Friend were indispensable,
in order to remove the anxieiy which the Mutilated
statements in the public prints respecting the Re-
venue, had occasioned in the public mind. It was
well known' i hat a large volume of accounts
was •osually presented about March; that it was
then sent to' the printers, and, that it was towards
the end o the Se's,ion !Afore the 'Jou-se obtained
that financial information so desirable at an earlier
period; It was singliTar-that while theßight Hdn.
Gentleman was opposing the present miotion, his
Noble Colleagues had, as he understood, acceded to
a si one in' the other House.

The CtiAgcELLiia.df the EXCHEQUER repeated
that he had no objetion to the production of the
"inforniatiOp; bu tha't if the ordinary course was
sufficient fpr that purpose, it appeared to hill) to be
idle to depart from it. It the Hon.:Gentleman.
would withdiaw his motion,
.and give notice of it
for to•moirow, by that lime he should be enabled
to 'acertain how far the above observation was applift
cable to it.

Mr. FE EEMANTLE consented to withdraw his mo
tion for the present, and to give notice of it for to-
morrow, but not fbr the reasons alleged by the
Right Hon. Gentleman. He distrusted the finan-
cial statement which the Right Hon. Gentleman
had yesterday' made ; and he was anxious before
that most important subjea,the state ot the finances,
should come to be dicussed, that the House slid*
be in possession of all possible information. with rat
sped to it.

Di

1,

tether or not in the present stage of the proceed-
it was necessary to appoint any elmmittee (or
441 purpose ; but as- doubts had arisen in some
Nrters on -that subject, it bad been deemed ad-
,..!sable before the House proceeded to any ulterior
i"easure, that they Should enter into an inquiry. by
8 Committee of their ta,cit ; the more ecpeCially'as
vitlcih an inquiry could be produalive of very little
,e!ay.. He therefore rthriyA, that a Select Com-
Httee be appointed to examine the.Physieians in
Vehdance on his Majesty, touching the mate o(his
ajesty's health since the examination of his Ma-
iTY's Physicians before the Committee of the
°llse itt the last Session of Parliament.
Th'e motion was agreed to, and a Committee cc.
lardingly appointed of
follows

Lir. Secretary 'Ryder,
-,..thAncellor of the E.. xchequer,
The Master of the Roll*,
tft. Ponsonby,
hTr•-W ilbzrtince, • • •
Mr. Sheridan,
h e Attorney- Gener4l4
Mr;
.„W Attain,
Mr, A. H. ity )re‘•
IMr; C. Long,
r.` Tierney,

wenty-one Members, as

Lord Jocelyn,
Sir J. Newport,
Sir
Mr. Whitbread,
Lord Castlereagh,`
Lord Milton, -. •
r. Canning,
Lord C. Cavendish,
Mr. H. Addiligtoli,,
Mr. S. Browne.

„ PRIVATE BILLS.
\hi the motion of tht' CHANCELLOR of the Ex.-
cliiitutn, the E-I ,use*reselved, • •
That no Prtvat,- ball should be- reed a'first
°me after the 24111 of "February. -
That no Report-ola Private Bill should
be reeeivedalter the 20th of April.
TheselresolutiOn's were.oldered.to be printed.

• ORDERS ‘ANI) NOTICES.
. The CHaNcELLowstif the ExCHEO,UER proceeded
rpropus.e the revival. of the- Resolution of last
,e6sion; by which alternate precedence was given
troughout the week to Orders and Notices; and
in
°I. t'hßt purpose, moved that all Orders 'of the Day
set down in the Order-book for Mondays and Fridays,
should be disposed of before motions of which no-
tices should have been given for those days.
Mr. WHITBREAD allowed that a regulation like
the present, might afford some convenience to Mi-
nisters, but contended t hat it injured freedom-of dis-
cussion, anti impeded Members of Parliament in the
discharge of their duty. The resolution of, last
aession'had been suggested by the inconvenience to
Public business, which 'the long inquiries of the two
preceding Sessions bad occasioned. hose incok-
veniencies, however, would probabl 7 not recur in
the pre,ent Session, and even if they did, they were
not, in his opinion,so weighty as the evils attendant
upon the regulation proposed by the Right Hon.
Gentleman. If, however, any regulation of that
nature, was to be adopted, at least it ought to be one
of impartial 'justice. This had not been the case in
.. the last Session, for on days when, by the regula-
tion, notices were to tike Orecedenee of orders, Mi-
• Listers had assumed the right of calling for partial-
lar orders, on the plea of expediting the ptiblic bu-
siness. For his part, he was ag• h4t all regulation of
the kind; but it any were adopted, he would wish
it to go turtbei than that proposed by the Right
. lion. Gentleman., , ,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER maintain-
ed, that the 'Regulation in question could in no de-
gree have the effect of ' injuring tree:lrm of Pailia-
Mentarydssciission.- It wool:; still be in the power
fq. any Member to bring forward, in cases of emer-
gency, motions without notice, although, in tbe'or-
diiiary course of affairs, it must certainly be deem-
ed advisable, by giving notice of a motion, to pre-
vent that SUrprise which would otherwise frequent-
ly compel' the House to rescind on Tuesd_iy the
business 'which it had 'clEine on Monday- 7 All this
Would be left in the sa., e state atter the adoption of
the RegulatiOn as before it.
Mr. ABEEC-RoMBIE-c‘oncuried in the p.roiest o( his
lion', Friend' near trim, against the orbposed:rego-
lation.: He was far, hoWever, from iniputing
.this
Proposition of the :Right- Hon.
~.Gentleman to any
itnproper motives: He only..- imputed.? to !Am. the
error of exposing the Houseto a real and
,i3.esinaeett
evil, in order to get' rid of a supposed. and temporary
inconvenience.
Sir J. NEWPORT moved as an amendment to. the
resolution, "That on the days upon which prete-
.dence was to be given to Orders, they should .he
. brought forward in exa& rotation as they stood on
the-paper in the order-book."
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER objetSled to
' this amendment, as a great innovation on the iirac-
lice of Parliament. It it were adopted, the natural
.consequence of it would be, that all 'the great
,busi-
ness of the nation might be impeded by the second
readings of contested' Private BIBS. It was well-
known that the Committees of. Supply-and Ways and
Means, were fixed only the day but one before their
octutience; and should the Hun, Baronet's Amend
ine"nt be adOpted, it was evident that all other busi-
ness, however comparatively insignificant; that
Might have been fixed at au earlier period for the
same days -on which those important 'Committees
were to take place, would have precedence of them.
Mr. PON.SoNBY allowed that there was some
Weight in the objection of the Right Hon. Gentle-
man. He admitted that there might be some in-
convenience arising from the proposition of his Ho-
nourable Friend ; but it was an inconvenience 'that
grew out of tlic novel praelice of the Right Hon.
Gentleman himself. For his part he had never
Witnessed any attempt to break in upon the old es-
tabished usages of Parliament, that was not attended
with great inconvenience, and he therefore advised
the House to pause before it agreed to the motion of
the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
. Lord FOLISTONE supported the Amendment,. and
declared. that he had never known an instance of a
debate' on a contested Private Bill having been car-
ried on beyond six o'clock in the evening.
The House then divided,
' For the Amendment tc
Against it - ig

Majority , 48

- The .original Resolution was immediately agreed
to without a division.

PLACEMEN.

We. presume that during
,our absence. from the
gallery on the diQision, the House having takeninfo
consideration the Speech of the Lords qop?piii7
sioner's, had resolved that a suprly.should be gr3nt-
to-his Royal Highness the Prince, Regenti lnd that
a discussion had commenced on the motion, for, re-,
*giving into"- a Committee of the w hole. Hattie to-

morrow to consider of the Supply ; f6r, on our re,..
turn we found

Mr. C!IEEViV on his legs, arguing on the neces-
sity imposed upon the "House of examining into se-
veral
subjects ctinneaed' with the publ:c revenue,
before they entered into the consideration of the
Supply which should be granted to the Crown.
He complained that no step had been taken to put
in 'prat:lice the recommendations contained in the
Reports respeaing-4 the abolition of sinecures and
places. It would be impossible for the House to
remove the scandal which attached to it in conse-
quence of the number of placemen on the: benches,
until they took the Report to which he alluded'into
due -consideration. Not only-had no attempt been
made to decrease the number of placemen who
were Members of that-House, but the evil had
even been aggravated. Since the last Session, three
new offices, the Clerk of the Council, the Marshal
of the Adthiralty, and the Paymaster- of the
Widows' Pensions, had been given to Members of
Nrliainent. The situation of a Master in Chan-
cery had also been cOnferrei on anoiher ~Member,
evidently for no reason,.but for his political cctridua.
There was also an old Member of thatsHouse,-(Sir
John Sinclair), long known as an indefatigable
Agticulturist, who had "sudd.nly been made a 161-
I eaor of the Excise. Could it be -believed, that the
office of M.irshal of the Admiralty was conferred on
the individual who enjoyed it, for any thing' but his
vole in that House. Could it be. believed, that the
offices. of Master in ChanCety, and' Colleaor of
the Excise, were conferred on the indiViduals who
enjoyed. them, for a-riy thing but their votes• in that
House )- Was all this right, amidst the distresses in
vilvich this country was involved ? The motion with
which he meant to conclude would be a.general
one, that he might not be accused of taking any one,
by-surprise.; but he felt the imperious duty, sur-
rounded 'as they were by the influence .of the
Crown—an influence continually increasing, and
exercised in defiance of all decency, to endeavour to.-
call the attention of, 'Parliament to this important
subject. One of the places to which he had alluded,
he should wish to speak of with great delicacy. He
meant the office beSiowed on Colonel WMahOn.
He had the good fortune to be well acquainted* with
that Gentleman, and he sincerely believed that a ,
more honest and faithful servant never lived in the
Court of any Prince whatever. Any reward that
might be given to Colonel M`Malion by his Royal
Master, was an a& not of grace, but of justice. Brat
he insisted that those who had advised his Royal
Highness the Prince Regent to do what he had done,
had been guilty of gross -injustice to Colonel
IVl'Malloo, and, gross -injustice to the people of
England. They had placed Colonel M‘Mahon in
a most invidious situation, and they. had advised the
Prince Regent to commit a great outrage on the
House of CoMmons. Twenty-nine years ago it
was stated in the 10th Report of the Commissioners
for Public Accounts, that the office of Paymaster
of Widows' Pensions was a perfect sinecure, that ,it
was useless, and that it ought to be abolished. In
one of the Reports of the Commissioners of Mili-
tary Inquiry presented to the House four years. ago,
the Commicsioners referred to the former Report of,
the Commissioners of Public Accounts, confirmed
the opinion therein given, •and stated, that on the
.decease of the Patentee, General Fox, they. presum-
ed that the office would 1 it: abolished. Since the
-last Session General Fox had died, and ikt the tace
of the two Reports which be had mentioned, the'
Ministers of the Crown had 'advised iiis Royal
Highness the Prince Regent to' cenferthe office
on Cubit-lel Where - was the use o(
naming Commissioners, of placing Gentlemen in
an. invidious situation, and of involving thein in a
otlatignes, if the Crown continued to
give paces to s:"lti of the 'Opinions Whieh these
•CominisSiOnera declared? 'ln his "opinion, Parlia- .
ment ought to offer to the Regent, with re'spea and:
humility :Weir.- sentiments on the advice which
•he lidd 'received. Ai present be called open the.
Hause to pledge themselves, and he wont& move,
it as an amendment to the motion before them,
that ther would take into, their earliest considera-
tion, 'the various • Officei of emolument ,recently
granted' by the Crown to several of their Members.

The SPEAKER was of Opinion, that no Amen&
merit could be made to the Motion. before !the
House. The proper course appeared to him to be,
to move the postponement of the motion, for the
House to resolVe itself into a Committee of Supply.
Mr. CREEVEY "acquiesced, and moved as an
that the House would to-Morrow
se'nniglit resolve ithelf into a CoMmittee of Supply,
in order to give an' opportunity in the interim, for
the considetation which he had suggested.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE.QUER thought,
that though there were sufficient grounds for op-
posing the motion, from the nature of the proposi-
tion' which'it involved, it was not sufficient merely
to oppose it, without taking some notice of the.
statements which had been nude. In the selectionwhich had been made of persons to fill.public offices,.
since the last SesSion of Parliament, the Honourable
Getilleman thought he discovered a something that
justified him- in concluding that there was a great
abuse and a great impropriety in appointing' to those
offices persons whO h were Members of trt HOuse.
• He had'to oppoSe what he lead advanced on two
distindgrounds.: In the first place, it lais obvious
that where a Member had been appointed to a situa-
tion whieh renderedhim incapable of siting in Parlia-
ment, he could not come under the description of those
of which he complained, mid as the accepting of
• any offiCe under Government, rendered it necessary
for the party to vacate his Seat, and for his constitu-
ents to. determine whether or not he should again
fill it, -the Honourable Gentleman ought. at all
events to have waited till such persons were again
returned, before he Came forwaid as he had done
-on this occasion. •But did the Hon. Gentleman real-
ly think that the circumstance of a Gentleman be-
ing a Member of that:House disqualified him froM
serving the public in art official situation ? Did he
think that if a Barriiter, for in.tance, had- an op-
portunity of displaying great powers, and extraor-
dinary talents; combined wiib _extensive !judicial
knowledge, that all these should, not be sufficient to•
recommend him to a public situation, because he.
was a:MeMbet of Parliament ? Were they to under-.
stand thatitwas.improper to appoint a Member
of Parliament to an office - under GovernMent;
for no other reason, than that he was.a Member of
Parliament ? To this it was that the Honourable
-Gentleman's _reasoning •carhe fnor,'. on ;every ace
of the appointments he admitted that the indivi-

dual seketed was not in other reweas impro-
perly choien. Nothing was alleged agitidit
any one of the persons alluded to; no want' of ho-
nour or of capacity to till the situation to which he
had been appointed, had been charged against
either'; and theretore if to the appointnients made
there was any oaje6tion, it arose solely from the
circumstance of those on whom they were conferred
having been thought worthy -to • sit In that House
by a body of constituents who had chosen thern to
be-their representatives. This was the first tithe he'
had ever heard such an objection called forth by
any appointment that might have taken Oace. One
'Of the persons mentioned in- particul.:r by the [-fon.
Gentleman on this occasion, namely, Colonel
M'Mahon, he had not only been silent with re-
spect to casting any thing like blaine or discredit on
his character, but -he had dom., him the justice to
bestow a very high eulogium on his uniform con-
dud. In doing this, tae Honourable Gentleman
hid done that distinguished individual' justice, *and
no more than justice. As to the truth of all he had
advanced in his praise, -he (the Chancellor of the
Exchequer), as far as he had, any knowledge of
Colonel. M'Mahon, was ready to bear his individui:l
testimony: Notwithstanding all this had been fairly
admitted, to propose such a person to the Prince
Regent as a person peculiarly emitted to a public re-
ward was character isedas disgraceful to the individual.
This- was the Honourable Gentleman's state-
ment, and the appointment of Colonel
was described as one particularly derogatory to the
Prince, as it was insulting to Parliament. As such
it had been arraigned by the Hon. Gentleman, be-
tabse the abolition of the office to which he was at),
painted, had been recommended by a Committee of
that House: The Honourable Gentleman farther
supposed that the office had been-given to Colonel
M'Mabon by patent for life. Now really he thought
that before the Honourable Gentleman came for-
ward with Such stateMents as those, n>hich they had
heard from him that night, he ought at' ast to have
given himself the trouble of inquiring into the-nature
of the office to which the individual alluded to he'd
been appointed. Had he done this, he would have
found, that the office of Paytthster of Widows Pen-
sions had never been granted for lite, and was not
held by such a, tenure even by the late General Fox.
If tlreti it were held by Colonel M`Malion even
as it had been held by General Fox, still it would
not be held as the Honourable Gentleman had
supposed.- So, far was this from being the case, and
so far was this appointment from being any thing
that could throw discredit on the Prince, or be teat
as insulting to Parliiment, or-even to a Committee_
of that House (which, however, was by no means
the same thing), that even in its being given, a
marked intention to observe their resolutions 'was
to be traced. Far froth being against, its being re-
newed by Parliament, and disposed of as to them
should seem best, with the aiTointment, it had been
-distinctly cormnunicated to Col. AVAlahon, by his
Royal Highness's command, thaLlconsidering the
circumstances under which the office stood, he was
to hold it as subject to any view that Parliament
nai- tit take of it. He was .surprised at the ettedt
whpkii this part of his Speech, seemed to have.—
Tnings appeared differently to dityerent understand-
ings. There might'-be.sonie very great absurdity in
what he had just urered, but lie was not aware that
any tr,ing had hillen 'from hiffinto‘juslify the trittin-
wiant cheers of tile Hon. Gentlen oppOsiio.-
-When the appointment of Col. IVPMThoti took
place, it ,had:- been • distinctly intimated to him,
'‘‘ that he was not to consider that he hadany hold
on the effice in question, that eduld prevent,-any
adjudication of it which' Parliament m!glit think
proper to make. It seemed horn the conduct of the
HOnourable. Gentleman, that 'what' he had just
.stated• had'only -the
.efreet 'of 'confirtning the Hon.-
. Gentleman's objeEtions to the appointment, and'
that he considered the office-tiros given, to furnish
strongergeotinds for complaint that'll it had been
granted to hilt-Illy patent for life. It such was his
opYaion, he was content to Lave him in the tullpos-
secsion of it. With' respect to that or any other
,sinecure, the House, however, would recollect the
course of its own proceedings. It had been re-
solved that: no sinecures ought-to be abolished till
some other provision was made•for accommodating
pubiie servants. The case' of Co).-M'Mahon was
that of an individual whose 'services metited a pub-.
Tic:remuneration. .The power of giving pensions,
,instead of bestowing sinecures, had,not been 'giant-
ed to the Sovereign, and under those circumstances,
the office in question falling vacant, it bad- been
given to as worthy and- as:honourable an individual
as the country could
.seleEt, or -the world afford.—
I This, hoWever, had been said to ,be disgraCeful to
the 'individual so appointed, derogatory to the
Print.e, and insulting to Parliarnen:. These obser-
vations it had been attempted to support, on the
most futile. grounds that could be well conceived,'
and on these it had, been proosed to postpone the
supplies called for by'the country. The Right Hon.,
Gentleman concluded, expressing his hope that the,
propositiOn would not be a, ceded to, and that alio
aniendtnent of the HOn,'''Gentlemari viould be
thrown out. •

Mr. BtioUGFIAM fully subscribed to all that had
been said in praise of C9lonel M`Mahon, but wus
not the more satisfied-with the manner in which' the
Official situation to which he had been appointed,
. had been bestowed. Far from thinking that the
high character of Ole individual justified the appoint-
ment, and that consequently it ought not to be
looked into, he was of . opinion that the more' de-'
serving the man, the more ought the appointment
to be watched, as' one fraught' with danger and
deserving reprehension., When a job was to •be
'dOne, if' a' person generally obtiO,inus was se-'
lected to' enjoy its' profits, there. was less. reason
-to tear that men would forget their duty, and he
cheated into silente, than when'a men deservedly
high in public estimation- was so selected to -enjoy a
sinecure. The appotment, he contended, was
inso;ting to. Parliament. It ,tlew directly in the face
of their resolutions.' The abolition to the office of
Payroitei: of Widows' Pensions, had been.recom-.
iihelided 'not merely by, the 'COrmnissioners. of 1783;
that r ecom men -rat ion. II tta been con firined by t.he
QotiiitliisionerS•of Military Inquiry in 180 d, in the
strongest manner' poSSible. The House itself in
1810, after no very mild 'debate, had given its sanc-
tion to the recomtnendation he had mentioned. In
that year, after a great debate on the 31st of May
and the:tst of June, and alter one division, the House
carne to two re:Solution's ivhiCh ha would th'en
The first he would call their attention to