The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-23 00:00:00

VIORIVING EDITION

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e-onamittee on the Bill ? In answer to that, he would say
,becatise, in the first piece, that when the 51. occupation
.41ile was mentioned, irrespective bf rent, any man who
knew
sd. anythlrg of Ireland must know that ss.
or
might as well be named.— (Hear, hear.)
He opposed the principle of the Bile on the ground that
the franchise was so lee, that it showed that Government
did not Mean fairly by the country. The provisions of
the 811 could not be corrected in Committee, because it
was entirely irrespective of rent and outgoings. The pro-
-01 the Bill, it was true, would endanger the con-
stituency of Ireland. Indeed it would do so with a ven •
geanee, for its provisions were little short of Universal
Buffrage• lie admitted that the Bill contained some good
Provisions, with respect to the amendment of the machinery
?f registration, but its defects far outbalanced its good qua-
as it would in fact enfranchise a host of paupers.
ne (Mr. Litton) would be satisfied with taking the rate
under the Poor-law as the criterion of the franchise, pro-
in vided he could be sure it was fairly taken. The Bill was
heffect a repeal of the Reform Bill, and it would have
ave more manly on the part of her filajety's Ministers to
brought it forward as such. Fie ass( rted that the Ge-
eernment had brought up this e/. franchise for the pur-
Pclie of inereasiee agitation, and he would venture to sly
llis,that no man in her Majesty's Government had any
supposition that this 5/. franchise would (le r pass the
,House of
Commons. Ile trusted that the House would
are of political impostors, and of a Government that
Would sanctioa agitation. For these reasons be should
°Miele the second reading of the Bill.
PMFITZPATRICK supported the Bill.
e LUCAS sad he was anxious to take an early op-
unty of delivering his opinions upon the Bill Aida
teas before the House, the more so because he had been
4, ferred to several times, in connection with that object.
Noble Lord, the Secretary for the Colonies, had ale
tladed to him a few nights back, and reproached the Noble
eLord, the Member fur North Lancashire, for not adept-
leg le,
ese is present Bill a suggestion which he (Mr. Lucas)
e"" made on a former occasion. The Noble Lord had
Stated upon the authority of the Mirror of Perna-
.,
tate at," that he r. Lucas) had expd an oiion
I there should(M be alteration in the ba isresse upon which the
elective franchise was made to rest, and had then pro-
ceded to deduce from his words arguments which they
em never intended to furnish, and did not in reality
Py. He (Mr. Lucas) had stated that he wished that
I 4 franchise should be based upon some footing
co %deist of the oath of the claimant. His ei h was
Pendent
the value cf the land, for which the claim was
chee"e;
we But though he de.ired a substitute for the oath of
oh. cleiniant dii net desire to g any further; his sole
eersejeetll was to prove the value of tee land by an indifferent
Abich n
The Hon. Member then referred to a Bill with-
e had been connected, and to some correspondence
ye lac subject, for the purpose of ehteeing what re the
siews he eat rtained. Upon the subct of value-
N! opiteon had been that it should be 81. above the
With respect to the Bill before the House the
benuie Lord the Member for North Lancashire had so
1-nteci out all the faults and all the defects of that mca-
eZeinelete make it extremely iffilt sr any person who
h e follow him to offer any remarks! without going over
tTe,elee ground as had been occupied by the Noble Lord.
selle'r was one point, however, on which he would
tae detain the House. They hai often been told that
e electors cf Ireland were too few in proportion to the
P:l3:illation. The argument which was used, was, in his
Lased up on totally false grounds. He had never
p..e(Pied ihat it was the object of the Legislature to im-
er e to she -ee franchise to a number of people, simply because
did i
' not possess it. The first consideration appeared
ne,7;el to be this, how were those who were to be sent to
detnent to be most safely, most soundly, and most in •
Pendently elected?—( Hear, hear.) There would remain
cquestion after that, whether they would bo most safely
psoept:d, by a small number' or a large one; but the abstract
etiopnisit'en, that because Ireland contained a great
h ation and a small number of electors, the franchise
(bode
be extended, was a proposition from which he
from Lucas) must entirely dissent. They had heard
e an Hon. Gentleman in that House that the number
la electsrs was extremely small, and that it was decreasing
consequence of the unwillingness to grant leases.
lit was Was a startling fact. Without wearying the House
4,„." any lengthed details, be would shortly refer to the
fete:meat which be held in his hand. With re-
o ;nee to the number of electors, he would state
111- fact, with which he was himself conversant.
leen County with which he was intimately concerned, in
se""4. there were 2,4oothey amounted to 4,000,
thiteithstanding many of the leases bad fallen in since
te-etreac• Was that any proof of the niggardliness of
Sie franchise so loudly condemned on the other side?
se,hnelY Wanted a fair state of the representation, and be
incrr ee to see it, not by lowering the franchise, but by the
the eased independence and education of the elector. As
eh,Pceseat Bill was twed upon a prineiple which he had
tearn,Yee Opposed, he never gave a vote with more pleasure
t"ue would in favour of the amendment moved by the
e Lord below him.
(341 MORpETH then rose, but was, for a few me-
iupilts, inaudible, in consequence of Members hurry-
man their places. He said the Noble Lord had made
he "eale!sonal charges against the Government with whieh
for the tee honour to be connected. He accused them
Rees cPolicy which they had pursued relative to the!e-
reenetien law in Ireland. He accused them of unsettling
easieis minds by a constant meddling with the elective fran-
Nisei "et in that particular they had still some lessons to
the Qtleal the Noble Lord.—(Loud cheers.) He accused
as en•ternment, to which he had the honour to belong,
ever thag guilty of stirring the cauldron until it boiled
1444 'en,t_on that occasion his was the hand that had
thief eees, most potent and busy element of tel
Lor Consear, hear, cheers, and laughter.) The Noble.
sntly spoke of the proposition contained in the
Iseßell with respect to the settlemet of the qualification
to t`hee elective franchise being acmere tack or addition
the the nil,. Now if it were not allowed to form part of
delee,`'lts it was, at all events, their preface, for he consi-
Weo-1 teat it constituted the only hope of bringing the
e question to a satisfactory conclusion--(Loud
feos e:8)-- to a satisfactory conclusion and final settlement;
leavv.'lthout any settlement 0' the electoral qualification—
,es it as it at present a o.d—• e coned they would.
,7eering a mere delusion and mockery the public.—
it nee the ) The Noble Lord had frequently said that
eel s •
itt see eat until he had carried his Bill to a second reading
d
of -"e itst Session of Parliament that they bad ever hear
Zdeanition of the franchise.
Lotad STANLE y--1 did not say so.
wooMORPETH had taken down the words of the
yid ,a Lord at the time they were uttered, and he distinctly
to elt was not until after he successfully carried his Bill
Peeti second reading that they had heard one word, res-
eg any definition of the franchise. —( Cries of Ob,
bad and ehcers.) He was as confident that the Noble Lord
ifonttlesed these words as that he then stood before the
rtoua *, Now, what were the facts ? Why, it was noto-
e,eder !LILL" In all the Bills which had been introduced
aeen: eee sanction of the Government of late years, the
ivehnlen of the franchise formed a substantive part, and
Prepare that formed part of the legislation they were not
Traared at all to legislate on the subject.—( Cheers.) So
or peel considering that part of the Bill as a mere tack
cordial last year, he had given it his most
%risesr_ aeprobation, and had most willingly in-
it;elloteie Lit in the measure he then proposed.
Periledillee Lord asked the Government, and that was re-
aot Y the Hon. Member for Coleraine, why they had
flew lee forward in a manly way and proposed some un-
(Loetneea measure for all parts of the empire ? He
eater inMorpeth) did not feel himself called upon then to
Ne
gsii any discussion respecting the Scotch and the
epouany
subject before them was quite
sestes_n*--(Leughter and cheers.) The abuses of the
system of registration in Scotland were acknowledged, yet
Nee „he Lord had strictly confined himself to the sup-
yssera ages existing in Ireland—(Cheers)—leaving the.
,htipe,feeea.it existed in Scotland and England with all their
tam eCt'clis on their heads. It was in Ireland, and Ire-
teat a slue, that all this ambiguity met them—it was in
ti.eeelennetrY alone where the registration laws were per.
ctolee'L teed embittering every grade of society. The
thalien ?re said they were about to give to Ireland a
empire, which was unknown to ally other part of the
they But it was to be remembered, that in England
eejoyerlojed the 40,. franchise—that was a franchise still
larie.e",in England, and which was once enjoyed in Ire-
the Liberal did not believe that there was one Member of
Paresa"seral party--he did not believe that there was any
the 1?„11,0,1,the Liberals, who would not willingly accept of
el tee" or the Scotch system of registration, in lieu
en ore, smeeasure then under consideration. By such
ter leis, Nubia Lord would be considered a much bet-
Lon,i;a4--11 more promising disciple of the movement.
els eor laughter,) The Noble Lord bad omitted from
to heilasideretion the great preponderance of freeholders
nenstiteelid-4easeholders had very little importance in the
cite wh. et body in that country. The measure of 1829,
euneueale,}l the name of the Right Hon. Baronet was so
40te fre e'Y connected, disfranchised no less than 191,000
60e, antieholders in Ireland; 6,000 201. freeholders; 1,800
disfreisch .303 100/. freeholders. Was not that wholesale
Coes voeleacinent ? The Noble Lord quoted some expres-
pposie h had fallen from him (Lord Morpeth) when
tea %n made motion made in 1839 for assimilating the fran-
oppos `lathe two countries. Now it was true that he had
e that proposition, but be did not think_
ha It 3 actin •re tha g inconsistently in now bringing for-
ulsCUZSion proposition contained in the Bill under
event,. he " Oh, oh," and laughter.) At all
evident "e nad not attempted to deer ire the House, as was
,Leereetdiceurn the language then used by the Hon. and
'hat Ho ‘"enther for Bandon (Mr. Sergeant Jackson).
Pee) en- and Learnei Member said he (Lord Alor-
the admitted, hat although he then topeosed the motion
ceteeictleawintOld
He
come when it would be necessary to
iliOltree which He had not held out expectations to the
lee!,110ble L sys not prepared to realrze.—( Cheers.)
-beast, ore said they were calling upon the House to
Hear upon a momentous question without information
;eke
th, heao__pon a
to e. information r ecluestiong of the. utmost import_
ago a? upon the table esieire which hehad
been able
lie le and e ore of the House only afew days
ene. Mild only late as that day.—( Cheers.)
assn 11 seouse
.e !vas to
(erealeate to it all the information. in his ion.posses.--
beering these Opposition benches)—ande whether
Itiho_Congiealsta,llie. specific statemetas bore against him or
et
th!lei before en
.had used no concealment in bringing
11_ inform_ tile tlouse.—( Cho re) But, to return to
f_ensive. eleion not being full, satisfactory, and compre-
hliee, he :could remind the Hon. Member for Mona-
'speared to be rathi r difficult to please,
wilkti he had merely read an extract from his speech,
his °.4t offing
er -.sees, • 0, any comment on it ; that
igenlea. alums fully bore out his (Lord Morpeth's)
tliPdtle ple•
vidTinhe
~Hon. Member approved of the prin-
t), Pen(!ent, g tne elective franchise on some fouling
es en L. ly of the oath of the elector, and it did not sp-
at th "icti that te
Pro e , e observations quoted from the speech
ns Positi,n. Member fur Mallow at all bore against his
te!hen might bate Hon. Members for Mallow and Mo-
s etteee . other
or (Aeonviews as to the amount at which
tees aaing was to be fixed, but upon the principle
ghee two ~,!!e nattered hinaselt he lido the sanction of
vet 'sever nigh authorit es.—( Hear, hear.) Now,
had
etiseet. "le Proposition had been urged on the Go-
. ne
always held, while distinctly