The Sun.
London, England, 1840-05-21 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONIION, THURSDAY, MAY 2l, 1840.

BETTING AT MANCHESTEIt.

TUESDAY EVENING.—To-norrow fortnight will decide
the Derby Stakes, upon which race so large a stake is ah-
nually pending. The desire to take 70 to 40 between the
Melody colt (now called Songster) and Launcelot, as no-
ticed by us on Friday, induced a general opinion, at that
time, that a change in the premiership was not improbable.
The Launcelut party would Lot extend their offers yester-
day beyond a fraction above 3 to 1 ; however, the appear-
ance of the doings in London, last evening, has produced
the changes which will-be found from the following limited
number of horses now worth a thought. We may add that
although the room was well attended at noon, there was co
energy perceptible, nor any sums of moment laid out :

THE DERB'.
70 to '2O agst Mr. Etwall's Songster—taken-3 to 1 offered
after in various sums

sto 1 agst Lord Westminster's 11;uncelot--offered to be
taken this evening
st, to I agst Duke of Cleveland's Theon—take 7
in to 10 agst Lord Albemarle's Assa:sin—taken
20 to 1 agst Lord Kelburne's Pathfinder
25 to 1 agst Captain Gardnor's Monops—taker.
33 to 1 agst Lord Exeter's Velvet colt—offered
40 to 1 agst Colonel Anson's Black Bess
40 to 1 agst Lord Chesterfield's Gambia—taken
1000 to 10 agst Mr. Clarke's Benjamin—offered
Offers to take 8 to 1 Assassin or /3enjamin win (7 off.);
three b2at the field and throw Velvet colt in. Offers to
take 2 to 1 Melody cr Theon win, or 2 to 1 Melody or
Assassin'; or to take four fifties to one Scott's lot beats
Launcelct ; 100 to 5 taken on Gambia and Maroon couple?.
THE MANCHESTER CrP. —Since our last observations
little has been done on this race ; 4 to 1 is offered against
the Shadow, 5 to 1 13allona, or 5 to 1 each, taking both bets;
8 to 1 against the Dean, (off.); 10 to 1 against the
Cripple, (off.); 10 to 1 against Apothecary, (off.) The
field against any four; we have seen 13‘.11.n5, Shadow,
the Dean, and the Cripple, Lacked to win.
THE Si'. LEGER.—NO diem v. Crucifix ; 200 to 14
offered against Launcelot, it would be taken to 12.

Cenim:ttee on the Pcor-law Act. Amendment Bill he
would move a clause exempting stock in trade from rating.
Mr. HUME gave notice of an address to her Majesty in
respect to the appropriation of Church property has vc
under:3l;a).

Ire] tad was quite as fit for the franchise as England or
S :otland ; and in the selection cf representatives,
since they had the power of choosing their
ovn rev„ ezentatives, they had chosen men
who were more' inclined to popular opinions than the
people of England hid done, and therefore he would
say thy were wiser, and the better entitled to an extension
of the franchise, at least, equal with England and Scotland.
The effecteof the Bill of the Noble Lord would be to re-
duce the present too limited number of electors
in Ireland more than one half.—( Cries of " Hear.")
Had they given him a little light he would have
referred the House to some documents—(Laughter)—but
as it was, he would say that in his opinion every one
contributing to the taxes of the country, end called moon
to serve her Majesty in the militia, the army, and the navy,
ought to have his interests protected, and had a right to
participate in the election of those to whom were
delegated the destinies of the country. Those who did
not were no better than slaves in the West Ind'res.—
(Cries of " Oh, oh.") He repeated it that they were
as much slaves in England as the Bleeks were in Ja-
maica, for neither had the frahchise, and both were obliged
to obey the laws made by those in whose election they
had no voice. Those who were fur restrictieg the Irish
franchise ought to think how they could retain any hold
on the affections of the Irish people. —(Hear, hear.)
The Hon. Member went on to allude to a tabular return
he had of the relative constituencies of England, Scot-
land, and Ireland, and the House would see the
depressed condition of Ireland. ( Here the Rude light,
in process of illumination. became suddenly darkened,
The Hon. Member remarked that he could not see it.--
(A laugh.) lo England there was one elector in 17 ; in
Scotland one in 32; in Ireland one in 85 —( Hear, bear. )
He had made an ahstract of these returns, and he would
read them to the House, to show the disproportion there
wis in the possesion of the franchise between England and
Ireland. He had placed in comparison counties of simi-
lar extent and population, and he found that while Mid-
dlesex has 65,000 males and 18,000 electors, Kerry
had 63,000 males and but 12,000 electors ; Yorkshire
hid 156,000 males and 29,000 electors, and Cork
171,000 males and but 3 900 electors; and Huntingdon
t 000 males and 2,700 electors, while Kildare had
27,000 males and but 1,157 electors.. Those were cir-
cumstances which he thought the House should take
into cons ideration before they adopted the measure of the
Noble Lord, Ile had made other comparisons to which
he as islied to call their attention.—( Hear, hear,
hear.) 'There were five English counties, those
of Cumberland, Lancashire, Northamptonshire, ‘Vor-
cestershire and Wiltshire, which with a population
of 1,440,000 inhabitants, returned twenty Members to the
House of Commons, while five Irish counties, with a po-
pulation of 2,166,000 souls, sent only ten Members?—
( Hear, hear.) He thought that the House should
nut neglect the consideration of ' such facts. He
found that the Legislature had done little for
Ireland even of late years, with the exception
of the passing of Catholic EmanCipation, which
was a boon for which he thought the people of
that country was deeply indebted to the Right Hon.
Baronet the Member for Tamworth.—( Hear, hear, hear.)
Leland was progressing in wealth, and was daily improve
ing.—( Hear.) The people only wanted equal justice,
and to hare the laws which gave confidence in England
and Scotland extended to that country.—( Hear, hear.)
If that were done, there would be a field fee the employ-
ment of English capital, by which the wealth and great-
ness of this country would be increased.—( Hear, hear.)
It was lamentable to see eight millions of people unable
to make use of the natural advantages they possessed, in
consequence of the long series of misgovernment which
they had suffered. Were there not enough of causes for
discontent in that country already, without the Noble
Lord's creating this new source ?—( Hear, hear.) He
would not believe that the Noble Lord did not think that
his Bill would confer benefits upon Ireland. But he ( Mr.
Hume) did not think so. Ile agreed rather with the peo-
ple of helm's], who believed it to be a Bill of disfranchise-
ment.—(l-lear, hear.) Ireland was now suffering tinier
the consequences of former misrule, and the denial of
those institutions which the people had a right to enjoy.--
( Hear, hear.) They were also burdened with a Church,
such as neither England nor Scotland had to main-
tain.—( Hear, hear.) Were not these things enough
to render Ireland uneasy ? —(Cries of " Hear, tear.")
True, they had not enough to prevent the establishment of
that quietness and order which was necessary to encourage
the employment of capital ?—(Hear, hear.) He found
the Irish, when employed in this country, worthy of con-
fidence, active, ready, and industrious. Was it not la-
mentable that in their own country alone they should be
told by this Parliament they were unworthy of equal
rights ? There was also at this time an effort made to
raise a religious hatred against them in this country.
Letters were written, aye, and by persons who supported
the Noble Lord and this Bill, to get up meetings and
petitions for the, repeal of the Catholic Emancipation
Act—( Hear, hear)—men whom Right Hon. Gentlemen
opposite associated with, and, as the public journals in-
form us, Members of the Legislature themselves. The
Hon. Member for Kent whomhedidnop hteseeeeienshmisigphlatchee,
bad spoken upon the question, and if his s
taken as a proof of the opinions he entertained, the people of
Ireland had little to expect from his clemency, for he said
that there could not be peace, and there ought not to be
peace, until the Emancipation Bill was repealed, and
until the penalties against the Roman Catholics were re-
enacted. It was impossible to look at all those proceed-
ings without feeling there was a lurking feeling of perse-
cution existing towards that country, and he would say,
that anything that gave increased power to that dominant
and persecuting party, only added fuel to flame, of 'his-
, content, and insubordination. He agreed that the pre-
sent was as much an English as an Irish question, because
it was most important to England that Ireland should be
well governed, and that a perfect equality should be main-
tailed throughout the whole empire, in order that peace,
quiet, and tranquillity, might be preserved. Therefore,
concurring with his constituents, and agreeing with
the great majority of the people of Ireland
that the present was a Bel of pains and
penalties, he should never consent to forwarding it
one single step. On the contrary, he snould place
every obstacle in its way that the forms of the House al-
lowed. On that ground he should heartily concur in op•
posing the Bill to the utmost of his power:
Mr. LUCAS said he wished the Hon.—or, rather, he
might say the Irish—Member—(hear)—who spoke last
had favoured Ireland with a visit during some of
the last registrations ; he would have seen and heard
things which would materially have altered his opinions.
The Hon. Member complained of the inadequacy of the
Irish suffrage, but that was not now the question—(Hear)
—and the Hon. Member's arguments, which had been
mainly for Universal Suffrage, were therefore irrelevant
upon that point. It was incorrect to draw a parallel of that
sort between Ireland and England. The state of
agriculture and the extreme subdivision of the land
accounted for the paucity of the electors compara-
tively with those of England.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.")
He would far prefer having a 51. franchise placed on a lair
and proper footing than he would have a 101. franchise
with the right of the voter not proved, as was the case
under the present system of registration. He wished the
franchise was placed on some defined principle, such as the
Poor-law valuation, or the Ordnance valuation. It was
clearly necessary that some amendment in the present sys-
tem should take place, and until Hon. Members opposite
agreed to a different franchise, his ( Mr. L.'s) aide of the
House were justified in voting for the Noble Lord's Bill.
A great deal had been said about the vexatious results that
would ensue from the Bill if passed into a law, but he begged
to remind Hon. Gentlemen of a circumstance which he
had not heard adverted to in the course of the debate, that
under the present system claims were made not merely
once a year, but four times a year ; and parties were sub-
jected to the annoyance of having to serve places on ap-
parent claimants, because claims were put forward
which were never attempted to be substantiated.—
( Hear, hear.) That vexation would be got rid of by the
present Bill, because instead of the notices being served
four times a year, they would be served only once a year,
and thus parties would be saved expense and trouble.—
( Hear, hear.) He was sorry to have troubled the douse
on the present occasion, and he really thought the subject
had been so much discussed, that the division might be
taken at once.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. REDING TON opposed the Bill. It appeared to
him the attempt was to repeal the Reform Bill, and to
put the Irish voter to all that vexation and expense to
which he was subjected, before the passing of that great
measure. He objected to the Noble Lord's Bill upon
principle, and should oppose its going into Committee, be-
cause, whatever amendments were made, his objections to
she Bill could not be removed. A great deal had been
stated with regard to the frauds practised under the pre-
sent system. He did not wish to perpetuate any of those
frauds or perjuries, but still the remedy might be worse
than the disease, and a man's head was not to be cut off
because he had a head-ache—s A laugh)—the frauds
and perjuries complained of by Hun. Gentlemen opposite
were not confined to Ireland merely. At a late election
it had been found that eight or nine persons had voted who
possessed no right whatever to do so. Similar occur-
rences had taken place at Rochester ; and at Petersfie:d
an individual had for twenty years voted for Members of
Parliament, who never possessed the franchise at all.-
- ( Hear, hear.) It was unjust and unfair to the Irish voter,
after he bad established his right to vote before the Judges
of the land, to call upon him to re-establish it in the man-
ner proposed by the Noble Lord's Bill. In conclusion, he
begged to state that he could not agree to it, because he
believed the clauses were opposed to the principle stated
in the preamble, and that it was a Bill to disfranchise the
people of Ireland.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. GA SKEL L was not surprised that her Majesty's
Government should oppose the 13111, but he was surprised,
after the second reading had been agreed to by a majority
of 16—not a very small majority in the present state of
parties—that they should interpose delay and difficulties.—
( Hear.) He was also surprised that the Government had
furnished no more plausible or specious argument for the
course they bad adopted than those which had been stated.
by the Hon. and Learned Solicitor-General.—(Cheers.)
furnish
itshheuumn leenstss, theythey
wouldee ul d
bettersuumpoenit,
t haartg
branding the Noble
they mightH o u House dependwith
the other.—( Hear, hear.) It was not.bra g
be beaten upon that stage of the Bill, as they were upon
Lord, the framer of the Bill, with epithets that reflected
disgrace only upon those who used them, and still less was
Ch eers)—that
it eulogy upon the Hon. and Learned Member fur Dublin,
Crown—(
from the first Minister of the
would induce the people of England, or their representa-
tives, to place any additional confidenCe in the,,Govern-
ment, or to reject the Bill in its present stage.—(Hear,
hear.) The greater the consciousness of weakness ber
trayed in those quarters, the stronger would the conviction
be that there was something in the present syitem of Irish
registration that would not bear the light, and that the pre-
sent Bill, or a similar measure, must pass.---( Hear. )
He had not yet heard it controverted that abuses did exist
under the present system, and was it denied that those
abuses had existed for many )ears.—(Cries of Yes," on
the Ministerial Benches.) What! was it denied by the
Government ?—( Hear, hear.) Was it denied by the Law
Officers of the Crown who had introduced similar mea-
sures ?—( Hear, hear.) Was it denied even so late as 1839,
when a similar Bill was introduced by the Hon. Member'
for Limerick ?—( Hear, bear.) The grievance was all but