The Sun.
London, England, 1840-04-03 00:00:00

,YEN ING EDITION

to call the attention of the Noble Lord the Secretary for
llreland to this Report, because that Report, alluded par-
ticularly to the West Riding of Yorkshire. Mr. Chapman
said that the Corn-laws, together with all other
taxes on the raw material, no doubt affected in
some degree the hand-loom weavers. He then went
on to state that the soil and climate of this country
were fully equal to that of any other country in the world,
and that the industry and skill of the cultivators were su-
perior. He would now allude to the statements made by a
gentleman in the employ of her Majesty's Government,
and he made this allusion for the express purpose, and with
the deliberate intention of bringing that gentleman before
the bar of public opinion to answer for his statements, he
thought he ought to be examined at the Bar. (The
Honourable Member then read a statement of Mr.
Lloyd's relative to the depreciation of the value of farms.
and another statement of the same gentleman, relative to
the state of the hand-loom weavers, which he asserted was
not founded on fact.) That gentleman, clothed with
the authority of the Government, had had the audacity
tor put forth such statements. He heel stated that Mr.
Lloyd should be required to give a further explanation on
that point, and for that purpose. The Hon. Gentleman
tnen referred to Mr. Simon's reports on the state of
agriculture in the south of Scotland, and of the condition
of Belgium. A considerable fallacy prevailed in suppo-
sing that the Corn-laws drove manufacturers into other
countries. One of the proofs of this was supposed to be
discovered in the instance of Mr. Cochran, whose son set-
tled in Belgium in 1810. But in fact. it was the capital
and
Corn-laws
skill, and machinery of that gentleman, and not the
seorn-laws, that established manufactures in Belgium. He
denied that they who wished to protect the land were in-
iffereat to all other interests. To say so was a libel, he
wouldbi say a stupid libel, not only upon the gentry,
e, " upon the whole aristocracy of England.
The Hon. Member then proceeded to comment upon the
Pamphlet of Mr. Jones Lloyd, the arguments of which, he
Contended were based upon fallacies and injustice. He
Considered that the alteration could only be made upon the
principle which Mr. liuskisson had advocated. That was
T Principle which had euided the Government of Lord
Liverpool—which had guided the Government of the Duke
of Wellington, and which had guided the Administration
of Mr. Canning—and it remained now to be seen upon
what grounds the present Government intended to proceed.
The Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies and him-
self (Mr. W. ) had been nurtured in different political
faiths, and when a writer of no mean eminence, in order to
give an idea of the sincerity and love of country;of the Noble
serve his country, he( Mr. Wodehouse) was not the bigot to
doubt it for one moment. They were now about to launch
eon
a wide sea, without compass or helm, and he, for one,
dreaded the quicksands of progressive reform, and he
thought
they were bound to call upon Parliament to inter-
P,°:e before they committed to the winds and waves
in ark of their hallowed Constitution.—( Hear, hear.)
alr- RICH would vote for going into Committee,
atnl‘,lough he was opposed to the total repeal of the Corn-
taWS. When the Chancellor of the Exchequer was about
° Propose new taxes, he thought the House ought to in-
quire whether some relief might not be given by a mode-
rate and fixed duty on corn. His opinion was that there
Ought to be an equalization of the duties on all foreign
articles. It had been said that our manufactures had been
Protaressing under the Corn-laws, but his opinion was that
if they had progressed since the passing of the Corn-laws,
i had been in spite of them. No gentleman, he appre-
hended, could deny that the manufacturing interests were
still menaced, and had greatly suffered, an that there was
a mass of population dependant on the prosperity of the
Manufacturing interest, to a far greater amount than those
who depended on agricultural tabour for their support.
Be would proceed to examine what bad been the result of
the Corn laws—what had been the benefits it was promised
they would confer, and the evils they would avert. He need
nut go further back than the year 1815, when Mr. Robin-
son introduced those notable resolutions on which the pre-
sent system was formed. What were the promises by
which Mr. Robinson gained the support of the whole agri-
cultural interest and the consent of the nation ? Mr. Ro-
binson promised a full and plentiful supply, so plentiful as
toil make this country independent of foreign markets—that
at supply would produce such a price as would tend to the
observance of the engagements between landlords and tenants,
and that the prices should be moderate. How were those pro-
mises fulfilled? (The Hon. Gentleman then entered into
r statement showing that from 1773 to 1790, under a free'
trade in corn, the fluctuations in price were less than they
had been since 1815, although there was during the former
Period various alternations of war and peace—that those
fluctuations did not average more than ss. a quarter,
and that 500,000 acres of land were brought
into cultivation.) What had been the case under
the law of 1815 ? Why that fluctuation of price had been
greater than ever—the farmer had been ruined, and the
labourer had
ril opposinglmdbe any
been driven to the workhouse. Hon. Gen-
tlemen,change in the Corn.laws, were fond
of drawing ideal pictures of what would be the state of the
farmer and the labourer if the Corn-laws were repealed.
He (Mr. Rich) wished they would draw from memory in-
stead of imagination, and tell the House what misery the
farmer and the labourer were involved in during the first
seven years of the Corn-law.—( Cheers.) Squire Wes-
tern, now one of the ablest defenders and most zealous sup-
Porters of the Corn.laws, as Lord Western, declared that
the law of 1815 would render the food and comforts of the
lower classes cheap and accessible. Why a State lottery
for bread could not have been more speculative or more
ctodrluel and ruinous in its operation than that measure of pro-
tection.._( Hear, hear, hear.) But they might be
that those were the errors of the first legisla-
tion on the subject, and that experience enabled
the sages of 1822 to correct those errors. So utterly un-
conversant were they with those matters, that the law of
.1822, intrcduced expressly to amend the law of 1815, was
utterly and entirely inoperative, and, in 1824, the Govern-
ment of the day were obliged to come down to the House
fora vote of indemnity to secure them from the conse-
quence of their own legislation. If further evidence were
wanting of the mischievous effects of this law, it
would be found in the declaration of one of
the most able men who ever had a seat in that
House, and who, from his official situation, was able
to express an opinion worthy of attention—he alluded to
Mr. Huskisson: and that Gentleman, in March 1828, de-
clared before Parliament and the country that he lamented
from the bottom of his soul, the masses of evil and misery,
, . and the destruction of capital, which that law, in the course
of its twelve years' operation had produced.—(Hear, hear.)
But uninstructed by the past the landed interest still re-
solved upon the continuation of this system, and accordingly
they had the law of 1828, which was no change of the
system, but merely a simple relaxation and a moderation of
it- That law was encumbered with the machinery of a
graduated scale. From 1828 until the present period there
had been imported a million quarters of wheat alone, and the
importation of late years had gone on increasing. Then as
t 0 fluctuations: the fluctuations since 1628 exceeded
ane hundred and thirteen per cent., so that, in fact,
none ;of Mr. Robinson's promises had been realized.
He did not blame those who propounded these laws at all
---, what he blamed them for was for pertinaciously adher-
ing to a system after experience had proved its fallacy. If
they referred to former periods, they would find the same
consequence invariably resulting from the same system.
A paper was much dwelt on last night which said flue-
tuaticns were much greater abroad, but these returns were
proved by the President of the Board of Trade to be er-
roneous. He wished to know whether free trade was in
the
in all those places. He had shown a time when
Ine variations in England were considerably less, which
‘4"
when we had free trade in corn. But the Noble
Lord the Member for Shropshire said the labourers were
Well paid and sneered at the Anti-Corn-law lecturers.
The farmers, no doubt, were satisfied with the Corn-laws
',1,_1815, but when they were crying out " Long live the
i'° Corn-laws !" they were invoking ruin on themselves. Dis-
tress returned in 1829, and only left us within the last
~e_w, years. Hon. Gentlemen say that the old system was
".411, but. the present system was working well. Why,
since the year 1828, agricultural distress had been alluded
i;irrl° less than five times in the speeches from the
si 0. In 1858, gentlemen, of all ranks and profes-
sions, deposed before the Committee to great agricultural
in.stress. He would read some of the evidence contained
the Report. (The Honourable Gentleman then
read short extracts from the evidence of a num-
berof gentlemen, all testify
of ine to the existence
great distress in all the agricultural" districts of the
,
country, These were the witnesses of the gentlemen of
the landed interest to the effect of the Corn-laws, under
theirt amended form, and most favourable circumstances.
But
gentlemen would say they were better off now, and
so they
tner the
were; but how ?—under financial difficulties, and
, manufacturing prostration. They had promised agricul-
turalpresperity, and many other things, but on the ave-
rage they had failed in all. He should like to know whe-
poor-rate and the county-rate proposed in 1815,
wila a substitute for the Corn-laws or not ? They had con
waved, too, to shift off the property.tax from their own
shoulders on those of others, in the shape of the
Cthe title
hear, hear.) These burdens were as old as
title of their estates, and yet they turned round, and
claimedwould ask whether the county rates had not been trans-
teorred to the Consolidated Fund ; had not tithes been
commuted, and three millions reduced from the poor-
the ? Again, it was urged it was necessary to protect
~,) agriculturists, to enable them to pay their burdens.
`-• uld anthieg be more absurd? Did not manufacturers
_contribute to these? They had better tell them to plough
ourlethe long wall at Liverpool, and sow its harbour. In
anddience to the great eat command, they had gone forth,
ra increased and multiplied and replenished the earth, and
their
up a population depending upon commerce for
Dei,r, existence. If foreign markets were closed against
'''nLsland, her glory would soon decay. The time had
arrived
when we ought to have free trade in corn, and was
it not better, then, to do away with all the evils which
nowpressed upon a superabundat t population for want of it ?
e capitalist and fundholder might go on some time
longer, but how long? Fur these reasons he advocated a
change of system. Ile trusted that lion. Gentlemen
would
depriving
thes ---m• pause before they rejected this motion, because
then must be well aware, although they had the power of
population of food, they had not the power
1° stop the great wheel of population. The cry that had
been
~ raised against the present laws would soon reach over
'lie whole nation, and though it might be stifled during the
Present year or the next, it would ere long have obtained
that ascendancy that it must be heard, and, when the
Crash came, aw would go all their restrictive laws.
Captain
sure, because he was convinced, not only that it would se-
rinettsly injure the agricultural interest, but the interests of
.%t
Lordwh ole nation at large. He could by no means admit
that took " . cheap bread would follow free trade in corn.
MORPETH said that during the protracted dis.
eussion
Corn
, place last year upon the question of the
oforlt laws, he had refrained from obtruding any opinion
his upon the attention of the House, and for the same
reason he should refrain now from occupying much of the
time of the House. He felt the great importance of the
question to every relation in society,
the subject bad been so long befor but
tlle considering that
siderite that every question connected with ibthea,d andb e
deliberately argued, he felt that it would be alli
anous, if not impertinent, to take up th
it. lie would, however,
ecn on
so -
..
e time of the
most super-
make a
~
House with di cussing

few observations, iu order to put the House in possession
of what his own individual opinions were upon the sub-
ject. He was one of those who thought that it was most
desirable that the views of every party, individually, who
formed a Government upon a measure like the present
should be known, and the only thing which reconciled him
to the position of the Administration with regard to this
question of the Corn-laws, was, the firm belief that a
united Administration prepared to carry out the views he
entertained upon this subject could not, in the present
state of parties, in any way be formed.—(Hear, bear.)
Feeling himself in this position, and not able to
furnish any collateral sources of information, as he
was not enabled to address the House with the authority
that attached to a united Government, he must be content
to give a silent vote on this question, in which he believed
far greater objects than the support of any Administration
were at stake. He believed that in the county which he
represented, the greatest interest and the deepest feelings
existed on this subject, feelings which he believed yielded
to no other constituency in the country. The petitions
he had received upon this subject, and those which had
been presented by his Hon. Colleague, who seconded the
motion last night, seemed to him to exhaust in number
those that had been presented at any other time. They
had proceeded from every description of person, and every
class of interest—in every department of labour. The
worsted, the cotton, and the hardware departments, and
also the agricultural districts ; and, after having been called
upon by such numerous bodies, he found it difficult to re-
sist a motion that that House should resolve itself into a
Committee to inquire into the operation of the Corn-laws.
However much he should wish that no cry or clamour, how-
ever loud or urgent, if not founded on justice, should not
receive the attention of that House, yet if that cry was
founded on justice, he thought the House was bound to at-
tend to it. It therefore became proper to consider whether
the complaints and the demands of the petitions that had
been presented from every partof the kingdom were founded
upon justice and sound policy, and he did believe if ever
there was a cry raised to Heaven that was founded in justice
it was that in which the people ;of the country called upon
the Supreme Legislature to take measures for facilitating
the access and increase in the quantity of food in the coun-
try, and the weal of its hard-worked and ill-fed population.
( Hear, hear.) He could not certainly dissemble his own
individual views on this question ; those'views were in ac-
cordance with the arguments which had been adduced in
the course of the discussion, that the Corn-laws were
unwise, impolitic, unfair to either branch of labour, and ill-
calculated to effect the objects which they professed to have
in view. He wished to estimate the character and tendency
of this law, not by the view which any Government might
take of it, but by his own views, and the result
that he had arrived at was this—that if he was
not prepared to consent to some alteration in the Corn-
laws, he could not conscientiously put up that petition,
which all were instructed to use, for their daily bread. He
thought that the whole scope and tendency of the present
law was at variance with the spirit and scope of the ordi-
nary dispensations of Providence, who had given the pro-
ductions of the earth for the benefit of all its creatures.
He thought, if it were desirable, it would be chimerical in
the present state of things to entertain a notion of the re-
peal of the present Corn-laws, without leaving a verge, or
some fiscal duty : and the House, by going into a Com-
mittee, would not be precluded from agreeing either to a
fixed or a sliding duty. He thought, looking at the argu-
ments generally upon this subject, that they were favour-
able to a fixed duty of a moderate amount. With respect
to the complaint of the continual recurrence of the agita-
tion upon this subject, there was only one way of doing
away with that agitation, and that was by removing the
grievance.—( Hear, hear.) If the people were oppressed
and suffering from any particular cause, did they think
that they could stop their complaint by taking no notice
of their grievances ?
" The flesh will quiver where the pincers tear,
The blood will follow where the knife cuts deep."
The agitation of this question put him mind of the de- I
seription given by that great writer and observer of human
nature of the surprise of the parish beadle when Oliver
Twist demands more soup.—(Laughter.) For his own
part he believed that this asking for more by the people
could not be stayed, it was his belief that this cry was
travelling to the most remote parts of the country, and
that it would still go on until the people obtained what
they desired. He had now stated the reasons which go-
verned him in the vote he should give upon the present
discussion, and he thought it would require but little sa-
gacity to discover that that vote would not be given to the
winning side. But with the views he entertained of the
increasing power of this demand and the sound ground of
justice and policy and the religious obligation upon which
he conceived that it rested, there was nothing that he
felt more confident of than its ultimate success. That
having lived to see the freedom of religious opinion esta-
blished—the personal freedom of every British subject
vindicated, that even the freedom of trade would be ap-
plied to foreign commerce at no distant day, and
which
would afford free scope for the efforts of domestic indus-
try, and would secure the benefit of harmony to all na-
tions.—( Hear.)
Mr. GA LL Y KNIGHT said he believed that nothing
short of a total abolition would give satisfaction to those
at whose instance the present motion had been brought
forward. lie denied that the cry for abolition was
the cry of the people.—(Bear, hear, hear.) At a
public meeting at Nottingham, a very distinguished
political economist, an habitual agent of her Majesty's
Ministers, was hooted out of a public meeting, convened
for the express purpose of the condemnation of the Corn-
laws ; and the Hon. Member for Sheffield, though he
presented a petition numerously signed, when he attempted
to advocate the repeal of the Corn-laws, had not met with
a very flattering reception. The people there were not
deceived. They saw that this abolition would not operate
for their advantage, but for that of those who were urging
them on to it for their own advantage. They knew that
cheap bread and high prices were not to be had at the
same time—( Hear, hear)—and they saw the effect of the
abolition of the law would only be to enable the master-
manufacturer to grind them lower than they were at pre-
stmi e,
ane st
cause t
C.
e--0 r
om:( Hear,: un naiabolition
ft a 3 .
c ht.
uet
ra
large,
ewr r.
as)s wn Thatobbtout
tthe
pressed
rfe wassa s the real object. The
causeedlaoosnsf ,
tthh
ies
and I
npt people,
measure
cer,lea
snt
soo not
the
(ein-
creasex()l,e,
nso theirci.,
i:1:, fand
nt gains,hde
operatives
Hear,byii
ea depressingr_ant and
lilanded
dr the price e
proprietors.
rrhioecpieLrr i
ego
tfaoi
rnl labour—
(Oh,
ao
tu
But
there were bounds to human patience.—( au hter and
cheering.) At last they would feel the patience.—(Laughter
of
honest indignation ; and feeling this, as he could not
but do, he denied that the master-manufacturers had any
right to denounce them, or put themselves forward as the
particular friends of the people. For what was it they
did for the people? He knew there were exceptions, and
was willing to acknowledge it ; but, generally speaking,
did not the master-manufacturers grind the bodies of the
operatives, and neglect their souls--( Hear, hear)—turn
them off by hundreds in a morning, whenever their profits
fell ?—( Hear, hear.) In the manufacturing towns there
was not a kindly spirit between the masters and men, be-
cause the operatives saw their masters had little concern
for them when out of their factories, and only used them
as machines for making money ; they had little concern for
their spiritual and temporal welfare, they did not provide for
them schools or churches, but left them destitute of either,
and hence it was that Chartism and Socialism grew up in
the suburbs of our manufacturing towns. And since these
were facts not to be controverted, he asked whether the
manufacturers had a right to denounce the landed proprie-
tors, and whether the latter ought to be sacrificed for them?
But to argue this question with reference to the whole com-
munity, what had happened to induce them to negative now
what they had confirmed last year, by so large a majority ?
All the arguments knocked down last year were set up
again, as if they had never been refuted. There was one
novelty he saw with great regret. He saw for the first
time the greater part of her Majesty's Minister's were
arrayed against the agricultural interest, and because they
were not perfectly unanimous, they had recourse to that
high-minded expedient of open questions.--( Hear, hear.)
Those who had any regard for the country, did not look
on this with indifference, or without alarm. Since the
discussion of last year, such a season had happened as the
oldest man hardly recollected. It must be admitted that
at the present moment trade was depressed, but when
they were discussing this was it not fair to ask the ques-
tion, if the Corn-laws were in fault ?—( Hear, hear.) They
would not, he supposed, be charged with having brought
bad weather, but they had been able to mitigate some of
its effects, for a graduating scale accommodated itself to
the pressure of the moment, and allowed in the hour of
need a quantity of Foreign corn to flow into the
country, sufficient for the occasion, but not to over-
whelm it. This last season afforded a proof of its
advantages, and he only wondered that corn had
not been dearer, and the price of longer duration.
He admitted there was a prospect that that might affect the
home market to a certain degree. Gold at this time did
go out of the country, but this was for a season, and seldom
likely to recur again. He thought it possible to believe
that inconvenience in future would be the exception, and
corn at a reasonable price the rule. We could depend
little for regular supplies on countries over which we had
no control. He thought we ought not to give up that
on which we could place dependence, for an uncertainty.
It was said that free trade was a principle of foreign na-
tions, and if we would take their corn they would take our
manufactures; but, as was said in another place, other
countries would not adopt this principle, and if we did they
would not dispense with the protective duties. When dis-
cussing this subject it would be well to consider that per-
haps we were more admired by foreign nations than beloved.
Look to the conduct of Prussia and Portugal ; look to the
proceedings in France, and the signs of jealousy which were
exhibiting towards us, and let the House remember the
words used the other day by the President of the United
States—that no compensation could be made to a great
country for being dependent on another for bread.
He believed that every tradesman insured his premises—no
doubt he grudged the expense, but lie preferred the outlay
to running the risk, and he was of opinion that the Corn-
laws were a sort of national insurance against the seasons.
—( Laughter.) He was of opinion that the farmer had a
right to protection. but to that protection which he now
enjoyed, and not such as was proposed by the Right lion.
President of the Board of Trade ; rather than have such
a protection, he would prefer none at all, for it would be
but mockery and injustice. If there were to be no fluc-
tuations, the Noble Lord must bring in a Bill to control
the seasons—to regulate that chartered libertine the wind,
and make certain and equable the wind and the rain—but
the Noble Lord was not a practical farmer.
Lord MO RPETH—No ; a grazier.—( A laugh.)
Mr. KNIGHT—Then, of course, he knows not so
much of the matter as others who had practical experience.
While they had fluctuating seasons, they must naturally
have fluctuating prices. If he could not understand how
any English Member should vote for the motion, far less
could he understand why an Irish Member should, for Ire-
land was now the granary of England, and he prayed
long, might she remain so. It was unnecessary for him
to sae, Irishmen, remember the best interests of Ireland.
Tire farmer was willing to go on with the protection at
present afforded him, and therefore he hoped the House
would reject the motion by as large a majority as it did
last year,
Mr. PRYM E—The motion of the lion. Member for
, Wolverhampton was so generally worded as to catch all
`those who wished for any change in the present system of