The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-30 00:00:00

such poorhouse be at least six miles from
any infirmary, such buildings or wards as shall
he approved of by the Poor-law Commissioners, for the
reception of destitute poor persons requiring surgi-
cal assistance ; and it shall be lawful for the !guar-
dians of the said union to charge the expense incurred
in the maintenance and medical treatment of the said
destitute poor persons upon the rates of the said union,
or of the electoral division to which they may belong.
And whereas great advantage would arise, were wards
for surgical cases made available in the different poor-
houses in Ireland for the reception of the poor, &c., be
it enacted that surgical wards be provided for such poor
persons, &c., upon receiving security for the expense in-
currd in the maintenance and medical treatment of such
persons And he it enacted, that it shall be lawful for
the guardians .if any union to pay out of the rates the
expense incurred in conveying any destitute poor person
to any infirmary or hospital, who from accident or
otherwise may require set glee! assistance, and in
maintaining such destitute poor person in such hospital.
Mr. L ABOUC HERE objected to the clause, as it
would interfere with the Bill for the regulation of
the medical charities.
Lord G. BEN riNcK, having brought forward the
clauses of which he given notice, proceeded to say,
whilst the rental of Ireland was 11,187,470/. sterling,
the rack-rent was 17.000,0001 ; the effect of this was,
that the landlord paid 2s. sd. i.f the rate. Such a state
of things kept down the disposition of the tenant to re-
duce the rate, for his poor relations gained more than
he lost by his assessm-nt. The million of heads of fami•
lies in Ireland, representing five millions of people, lived
without any regular means, or knowledge of how they
were to provide for themselves or their families. Nearly
one-half of them lived in houses or cabins with only two
rooms; and ninety thousand of them lived in
mud cabins, withou: either windows or doors. With
such a state of things, the poor rates, when the
Act came into operation, would be 20d. in the pound.
He thought it would be for the advantage of
all parties to throw the whole burden on the
rate-payers generally, instead of on the land.
lords, for it was surely better that the poor should
be dependent on 500.000 or 600.000 tenant-farmers, in-
stead of but 16,000 landed proprieters. This was the
object of his amendment, which was in entire conformity
with the observations of the Noble Lord at the head of
the Government in introducing the present measure.
Though in some particular instances, as had
been objected to, his clause might operate injuriourly
on the middle-man ; generally speaking, its operation,
he was firmly persuaded, would be beneficial.
The effect of his first clause, then, would be this— sup-
posing Bs. to be the rate paid by the landlord, the land-
lord would deduct 45., namely, half the rate, from the
tenant ; or if he should be debarred from that, he would
be at lib3rty to enter into a new contract with the
tenant. That would be a most stringent means of get-
ting rid of the middle-man, who must be allowed to be
the bane of Ireland. Such was the effect of the first of
his clauses. The first object of the second clause was
to reduce the small rate-payers, and the
second to withdraw from the inducement
to sub-let small farms to small holders
The object of the proposed clause would be to improve
the character of the rate-payers by removing from the
tenant who was rated under Si. the liability to pay poor-
rates. The effect of the measure would be to remove
this liability from the shoulders of 76,027 persons, while
there would still remain of persons rated above that sum
509,726. The guardians would, when thus elected by
a better class of rate-payers, be more likely properly to
fulfil the duties which might devolve upon them by virtue
of their office than when chosen by the lower class of
rate-payers.
Sir G. GREY believed the clause would materially
interfere with the operation of the poor law, and he
must, therefore, resist it.
Mr. SHAW said the clauSe would assimilate the law
of Ireland with the law of England, and he could not see
what sufficient reason could be urged against its
adoption. He would quite agree with the principle of
his Noble Friend if he would act up to it. His Noble
Friend had said that the sacrifice would be of the
13,000,000/. a year on the part of the landlords for the
sake of the labourers, and if the 1,500 were to be sacrificed
for the 700,000 now engaged on the public works, he was
also ready to agree to it; but it should be recollected
that they were not prepared to give the English poor-
law in its entirety. When the Hon. Member for
Northamptonshire had first stated his scheme to the
House, he had disc: nted from it ; but he was now of a
different opinion, and if they would give the English
poor-law in its entirety, he was quite ready to agree to
it. The effect of the law would Le, as he conceived, that
the poor-rates would be throwi. on the small occupiers,
and if they would give the English poor-law in its whole
effects, he thought that it would be a boon to the coun-
try, and a motion which he could readily support.
"Mr. BROTHERTON moved that the Speaker report
progress, and ask leave to sit again.—(Cries of " Go
on, go on," and Mr. Brotherton refrained from press-
ing his motion.)
Captain HARRIS felt that the Noble Lord was en-
titled to the highest credit for the in:roduction of this
law, but he thought that it was insufficient for the pur-
pose.—(Loud cries of Divide, divide.")
Sir W. JOLLIFFE thought that this Bill would prove ,
wholly inoperative, unless carried out in a manner
similar to that adopted in miming out the English
poor-law.
NIr.M.I.T. O'CONNELL considered that the Noble Lord
had proposed a dangerous experiment, and if the Com-
mittee adopted the clause it would go far to impede the
success of this Bill.
Mr. P. SCROPE opposed the clause. It was objected
to by the tenants of Ireland, and, upon every ground of
reason and justice, ought to be negatived by the Com-
mittee.

Mr. SHARMA-N. CRAWFORD protested that, pro-
posing this clause at such a time, was taking the people
of Ireland by surprise. The tenants of Ireland were in
a very different position to the tenants of Eng.•
land, and, therefore, the law of the two countries could
not be assimilated; at all events, if the Committee
passed the clause, he could assure them it would create
disturbance and discontent in the sister kingdom.
The House thPn divided, when there appeared—
For the clause 76
Against it 79
jori ty
Sir G. GREY moved the following clause: And
whereas by the said first-recited Act the Poor-law Com-
missioners are empowered to purchase or hire land not
exceeding twelve acres, imperial measure, to be occupied
with the workhouse of any union in Ireland, and it is
expedient so to extend the said provision as to enable
the guardians of any union to occupy for certain pur
poses an additional quantity of land not immediately
contiguous to any workhouse, or to the site thereof:
be it' enacted, that it shall be lawful for the P.ior-law
Commissioners to purchase or hire land not exceeding
three acres, imperial measure, in addition to the twelve
acres aforesaid, to be occupied by the guardians
of any union, any porthm of the said land to to be oc-
cupied being either contiguous to, or detached from, the
site on which any workhouse stands, as shall be found
most convenient in each ease, and it shad be lawful for
such land to be used for the site of a fever ward, or as a
cemetery for the burial of deceased inmates of the
workhouse, or for any other purpose which the said
Commissioners shall approve ; and the Poor-law Com-
missioners are hereby empowered to erect such fever
ward on such land to be so purchased or hired as afore-
said, and to direct the guardians of the said union to raise or
borrow the sane necessary to defray the expense of hiring
or purchasing such land and erecting such building, and
to charge the same, with interest, on the iyor.rates of
the union, in the sitne ruarin:r as the said Commissioners
are empowered by the said first recited Act to purchase
and lure land, and to erect a workhouse or additional
workhouse for any union, arid to direct the guardians
thereof to raise orb a-row the necessaryi.urns to defray the
expenditure so incurred, And he it enacted, that all th•
provisions of the said first recited Act, which relate to
the purchase and conveyai.ce of land for the erection of
workhouses, or for the purpose of carrying into effect any
of the provisions of the said Act, shall extend and apply
to the purchase and conveyance of land under the provi-
sions of this Act.

The clan;;;;ere agreed to without dictission.
Mr. SHAW proposed several clauses relating to the
mode of voting clergymen to the relief of the poor,
which were also agreed to.
The preamble of the Bill was then agreed to.
The House resumed, and the report was ordered to
be brought up this day ( fuesday ).
Lord J. RUSSELL said he wool! take the third read-
ing of this Bill on the 12th of April next.