The Sun.
London, England, 1812-06-23 00:00:00

then urider cc;risideration. 'Wore the Prince Re,
gent, if it event no further ; but if it was. meat
to advise the Crown .to direct Ministers to brie.-
forwnrd a measure in conformity with the wish
of that resolntio'n, he,coOld not agree-to' it. It
woold be a'hard task to imposes upon a Govern-
ment, to frame theoneasitre according to the ideas
of an individoal, under such circumstances as they.
would be called upon to. frame'one under, if they
weiescalied upon in the present instance. He did
hot net ail :that Grivernmentswonld not take the
subject into'theic considaration, but to frame a
-measure like: that propose;l, and under circum-
stances _like the preent, he did not conceive was
a fair duty to impl•ise"upon any Government. Ile
knew of no-disposition in .any quarttir of the Aa-
mthistmtion to make it a Cabinet questiOn. Every
one took that...part Which his own judgment dic-
tated, He should be Old t' things Nt'El:fein. Sod,.
a stat?..-that it could he uo taken ; but where.
there was such a• variety of opi.itioos on the vi'O-
ject, be could not think the Government wouldtbe
likely to carry it so fitr as an iodivdaial. Ali he
could say was,that holding those
he 4ad entertained ever since the blion, which
were on4ecortl, and which he 1i ul never had any
diSposition or occasion to ehaoge, she was most
_anxious in his individual ca.pacity t.!-)
sex`ert Ii to
41f in or out: of Parliament, any. w:ty that
lniaht giVe the Cath'olics th WhiCh claimed;
the . , „
provided measure coma be accompanied by.
those. securities Which the PrOtestants bad a right
to expect. , Such a ineaatre would be most bene-
ficial iii-establishingthe authority of the Govern-.
meitt ,of Ireland, and that it,was
,impossible that
the Catholic interest would make them act . to-
gether as all dissenters did, and a 3 it was bi na-L
ture for them to ; still he 'thought it better
that they should act 'within the COustitution than
out of 4.---. Upon the whole, the question was not
free fro. rn ConstittitiOnardanger,• and though it:
might be difficult 4-o: devise adequate securities,
still, in -the present State of the C.l:.to.olie mind, and
in the present state Of Papal power, it would" be
well to look at the difficulties which opposed them=
selves to .the measure; get o\'er thew if they
could, and if they could not, atleaSt to get so near
the difficulties as to be able to state in Parliament
,where -the " hitched," add that ascer-
tained, if the obstaCletvitre 2oarable, it would be
seen that l?ri lament had done what they could and
then he iliould hope, with thatknowledge the public
would be satisfied, and the qUestion settled 'anti
set at rest. Having thus explained his sentiments,
he had onlyto say, that the reason 'he had not
done so before, was, that difficulties were in the
way, which, in his opinion, tenderedthe agitation
Of the subject improper : those diflicialties, removed,
he Was as anxious for an inquiry into-the claims
of the‘Catholics as any one could be.
Mr. TIER. NEY commented at some length and
with much sevetrity on the speech of the -Noble
Lord. 'He 'augured • ill for the Catholic question
from it,: as the Noble Lord thought it would. be
very hard to, expect Governthent to bring apea-
sure for the relief of tre Catholics in compliance
with the, wishes the .HOUse.- He characterised
the GoVernmetit weak, imbecile, and ,Jiange-
able, censured tbedli for taking no part in a ques-
tion of such important:7e, and hoped in the. course
of the summer they Would come to some determitaa7
thin On the subj4ct, and communicate the same to
the•Cathialics.

Mr. B. BA:TETI:MST defended the conduct of Mi-
nisters in not making it a Cabinet question, and
maintained that Parliament ,was only pledged to
the consideratiOn :of "the' question, and that the
Oo,etninent was bound to -propose no specific
measures,: on. the subject.. 'lt was his opinion
they were only bound to a general consideration of
the question, and not to Make theconcessions call-
ed-for till the 'securities required weregiven. He
thought it bit reasonable, to ask .what securities
would begiVen ? On thi-s, subject the 'ILIA Hon.
Gentleman 'would not touch for fear of disturbing'
the harmony` which he wished to prevail on :the
present occasion. Other. • lldrf.:‘ll.l.eiiibers had
talked of securities., but had no sooner mentioned
the wend; •thin 'they flew' -Off frciin the subject.'
If this then eras the case, they Were but in the sarne
situation in which they had long -be Cu.- , gr. Pitt,
Lord Gren4ille,and others, had been of 'opinion that
securities Might be devised, but they Tlad not stated
What those securities naustbc. Under these- circum -
stance 3, no imputation oughtto be caSton any man,'
for not endeavouring to carry into effect a resolution
so va.gue and indefinite asthat.before the Hous,.
this, he thought it would be. a:delusion
to hold out to the country' a prospect of any good
whatever resulting from.'such. a Motion as. the
present, •when they were ignorant of the, nature
of the proposition with which it was intended
to foroW it up. He was averse, to Motions of
this description being ;brotight forw'ard, and
regretted the 'encouragenientgiven to them by au
'Tlonontable Gentletnan,-and- by his "flight Eon.
Friend the Chancellor' of the txchcquer, who had
spoken in favOur of the in'ation before the House,
withont professing to know what they were after-
wards to ,be Called upon to do. He , contended,
there were circumstances connected with the sub-
ject, Whichjustified serious apprehension 'of the
consequences 4 conceding the Catholic- clabo,
and therefore he
.conceived it to be the, duty of
Parliament, not hastily to give npithose guards
which had heretofore been judged to be e3setestl
to the irit,Kcsrity -of the, Constitution. With this
impression he Should' vote against the. motion.
Sir J.C. Hir.rs.4.Ev argue 4 in favour of grant-
ing. the Catholics Emancipation, but contended
that they had no to expect td` be placed.in
a situation different, with respect to the-Pope and
foreign influence,' from that in which they must
stand.in Catholie'coTitries. He was willin'gr
place them in the same situation in which they
Would stand in.Sp.:ltt or Portugal, and more than
tilt he thought they had no' right to dethand of
the English Government.
Mr:-Potcson-zy was sorty.to understand from;
the speech of the Noble Lord, that,neither cf his
Colleagues was ,so - favoniahle to granting the
claims of the Catholics as himself. ' He ctinderrn-
ed the conduct of Ggvernnent in taking no part
in a question of such vast- itportq4lce.. The very
best secutityts, the Established Church that cOa:d
be -obtatried, wfis 'that which- must result -from

. Our Readers will See, by a reference to Our Par-
liamentary Debates,.that illr. CAN'ESIG'S Motion,
respecting the Roman Catholics of_,lreland, was
last night carried in the House of Commons
by a very large majority. It is not our pro-.
vince to find fplt with any determination
that the House of Commons may. adopt, but
we may, without impropriety, declare, that
we see no reason, to depart, froni • those opi-
•
nions which we have alv;-ays expressed up-
on this subject,' and declare our apprehen-
sions as to the probable result ofthis measure. We
are aware that by snowing our opinion can-
didly upon this moSt important subject, we shallex-
Pose ourselves to all the obloquy that the advocates
of the Catholic claims so liberally bestow upon.
any' one who has the misfortune to differ from
them. There are no persons in the world more
intolerant than those declahners _for toleration.,'
Upon one of the most, important questions that
ever occupied' the attention and agitated the
people of this Empire, they arrogate to them-.
selves the exclusive right of judging, and attri-
bute the most unworthy and base motiveS to every
man who is dispoF4 even to pause before lie eon-.
seats to }flake such a vital alteration in the Constis.
tution; and to Sacrifice those prineiples, and aban-
don those measuies,. by which our ancestors csta:
Wished the liberty and augmented the powers of this
country. We cannot, however;patiently sit down
under the' imputation of entertaining a-hostile or
an unkind feeling towards our •Rome.n 'Catho-
lic fellow-subjects ; we should most gladly see
. .
theM admitted to the fullest participation of all
the benefits of ;the Constitution, provided it coUld
be done' with safety' to our .Establishinents in
Church and 'State. We should be most happy to
see the discontent_ which subsists in the minds
of the Catholics of Ireland, whether well or
ill founded, removed ' but the present measure
not, we • fear, produce that effect. Tl,e
,Cathalies themselves,- have told us, in the 'mei:A
most solemn manner, that it will mot ; 'they, 'have
rejected-, with scorn', the proffered. boon; 'they
insist upon ec,,,cesaienS heat flies/will-make none ;
the peremplority deinand h$ °Kite , unre-erred.
'nne-e!ditioisi surrender of all
~sectirities
[-which have hitherto been considered as essentlaf

C,;4 S' WOC.D,Tof C9,,,ent-gftrfler and rublisped by AVIT,LIAM tid
:E. Na. 112: Strrad, Orden tor Lctias fur the I,:ciitor, Ara. (i)wit