The Sun.
London, England, 1847-12-03 00:00:00

LABOUR RATE.

Mr. JOHN O'BRIEN gave notice that he should ask
the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Secretary for Ireland,
on Monday next, the eth of December, the intentions of
the Government respecting the several memorials and
applications forwarded from the eeveral counties of Ire-
land in reference to the unfinished presentments under
the labour rate enactment.

LIABILITY OF TENANTS TO PAY RATES.
Mr. S. CRAWFORD gave notice of his intention to
bring forward a Bill to relieve the tenants in Ireland
from liability to pay their landlords' rates, and to make
provision otherwise.
IMPORTATION OF FOREIGN GRAIN.
Mr. P. MILES moved for certain returns relative to
the importation of foreign grain, in continuance of
former returns.—Agreed to.
DUTY ON FIRE INSURANCE.

Colonel SIBTIIORP gave notice that he would, after
the recess, move for certain returns with a view to the
abolition of the Oppressive duty on fire insurances.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.

On the motion of Mr. PARKER, it was agreed that
the House, at its rising, should adjourn till Monday
next.

CIIANCERY BILLS OF COSTS.

Mr. GEQRGE HAMILTON moved for a return of
the number of untaxed bills of costs handed over by the
Masters in Chancery to the taxing master appointed
under the Act 8 and 9 Vic., e. 115, in Ireland, since the
3d day of July, 1846; also a return of the number of
bills of costs (omitting costs of passing receivers ac-
counts) lodged in the office of such taxing master, since
the 3d day of Jnly, 1846, and the number now
remaining therein under taxation or untaxed ; also
a return of the average length of time
intervening between the issuing of a summons to
tax a bill of costs in said office, and the commencement
of its taxation, so far as such average can be conveniently
ascertained, and the cause of the delay, if any, in com-
mencing such taxation, and of the amount of Chancery
fund duty paid on the soots which have been certified.—
Agreed to.

RAILWAY BILLS.
On the motion of Lord J. RUSSELL for reading the
order of the day for going into Committee upon this
Bill,

Colonel SIBTHORP said that he felt the difficulty of
his position in opposing the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer. He wished, however, to say a few words with
respect to this BilL Experience had made the House
much wiser with respect to this railway
business, and he trusted that the Chancellor
of the. Exchequer had now found out the
truth of what he (Colonel Sibthorp) anticipated long
ago; for theißight Hon. Baronet had stated in the House
upon a previous evening, that if they were not th• main
cause, they were one of the chief causes of the existing
difficulties of the country. He had always felt it his
duty to lend a helping hand to everything calculated to
improve the state of the country, and he had al-
ways apprehended that evils would arise from giving
sanction to those dangerous and delusive schemes
by which the rights of private property were invaded,
and the little property torn away which the poor and
industrious man had been enabled to gather together,
and which he had ♦ainly hoped would, in this free
country, be preserved from the rapacity of overreaching
and irresponsible bodies of men. Some of the men to
whom these great powers were given were no doubt
men of substance—(Laughter)—some of them mere
shadows—(Laughter)—without a shilling in their
pockets, or were mere gamblers, hoping to fill their
pockets with the losses of other people.--(Hear, hear.)
No doubt there were many good men in that House
connected with railways, but let them not forget that
" evil communications corrupt good manners;" and he
was very much afraid some of those even were tainted
by the gambling propensities which railways encouraged.
He wanted to know when there was to be an end of
these measures? When were the parties whose land
some of these railways proposed to cut up to receive
compensation?

Mr. HUDSON—When the land is taken.
Colonel SIBTHORP—The Hon. Member for Sunder-
land said when the land was taken. Well, be it so; but
he know of many instances where the land had already
been taken, and yet no compensation had been made to
the owners. But even when compensation was awarded
it was below the value o f the land, and the only remedy
the owner had, if be was dissatisfied with the allowance,
was to go before a jury of railroad contractors or rail-
road shareholders, who took good care to let him in for
it.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) No man ought to be on
these juries who were in the remotest manner connected
with railroads, nor ought any Member of that House
to vote on these railroad measures who could not ad-
vance to the table and voluntarily declare that he was
neither directly nor indirectly connected with railroads.
Could they not devise a scale of remuneration for land
required for railways ? To him it appeared an im-
perfect, a doubtful, and a very suspicious Bill. It ought,
therefore, to be carefully watched in Committee. He
considered that it ought to be postponed until
a future day ; it ought not to be pushed forward
and passed sub silentio, as the Government wished, at
this early period of the session. Persons of small pro-
perty who, perhaps, had not the means of defending them-
selves in courts of law, ought not to be thus overridden
by an utterly irresponsible power, like railway com-
panies. _ _

The House then went into Committee. Mr. BERNAL
took the chair.

On the first clause being proposed,
Mr. DIVETT said, if the Bill, on examination, had
been foiled to be of the nature detailed by the Right
Hon. Baronet (Sir C. Wood), he shoul not have offered
any opposition to it; but ae it was not calculated to
carry out the object for which it was stated to be brought
forward, as it would give rise to much expensive litiga-
tion to obtain compensation, he should feel it his duty to
oppose the clause. It would have been sufficient if the
clause had simply stated that railway companies were to
have the power to suspend their works for a given pe-
riod ; and that they might, by applying to some such
tribunal as the Railway Board, obtain two or
three years more if they required it. He con-
fessed, however, that he did not know who these
Commissioners were ; he was satisfied of this, however,
that the Hon. Member for Derby was well fitted to dis-
charge the office of principal Commissioner.
Mr. HAYTER approved of the clause. When parties
were aggrieved by delay in the pur-
chasend, the question of compensation would
tdleecCnllaacrue of
osdi ne
their
2 h lea
wasitrtlhae theny
underreview
—Agreed‘to.
agreed to.
On clause 3 being proposed,
Mr. BOUVERIE wished to know why two years had
been proposed as the time within which railways that
had been commenced were to bo completed ? He had
received communications from many of the railway
companies, stating that that period would not be suffi-
cient.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ob-
served that it, had been, found not to be a very easy
task to determine within what number of years railways
that bad been commenced should be completed, but upon
due consideration it was thought that two years would
be sufficient.
Colonel SIBTHORP did not see why four years
should not have been given as well as two, according to
the statement of the Chancellor of,the Exchequer.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, his
own opinion was, that two years was sufficent, but if the
House thought three years would be a more convenient
time he would submit to its decision.
After some observations from Mr. RICARDO, the
clause was agreed to, with the insertion of two years.
Clause 4 was agreed to, with a few verbal amendments.
Clause 5 was also agreed to, after a few observations
from Mr. WYLD and the CHANCELLOR of the Ex-
cnEQER.

Clause 6 was agreed to, with a few verbal amend•
ments. .

OnelCaulisAN clause
7bCeEinf proposed,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
was his intention to propose to omit clauses 7 and 8, and
i
insert the following clause:—" Provided always, and be
enacted, that whenever any such warrant as aforesaid
shall have been granted by the said Commissioners, for
extending the time within which any of the powers given
b. y any such Act or Acts may lawfully be exercised, the
justices, arbitrators, umpires, or juries respectively,
as the ease may be, who, under the provisions
of such Act or Acts, shall award or assess the
cempensation to be made by any such company or per-
son as aforesaid to the owners or occupiers of, or other
persons interested in, any lands taken or used for the
purposes of any such railway or works, or injuriously
affected by the construction thereof, shall, in estimat-
ing the amount of such compensation, have regard to
and make compensation for the additional damage (if
any) sustained by such owners, occupiers, or other per-
sons, by reason of any such extension of time having
been granted as aforesaid.
Mr. HENLEY opposed the omission of the seventh
clause. The clause proposed by the Government gave
no compensation to parties wit whom bargains had
been made, while it gave it to persons with whom no
bargains had been made.
Sir H. VERNEY suggested that some provision
should be made in the Bill for the purpose of enabling
the works upon railways to be completed as soon as
possible between the termini of the lines,
Mr. MILES thought that the Hon. Baronet had
entirely mistaken the objection urged against the
omission of the clauses by his Hon. Friend. He hoped
that the House would recollect that while affording every
facility to the proprietors of railways. They should
also remember the claims of the landowners.
Mr. HUDSON said that he confessed that he was
one of the parties who proposed the alteration in ques-
tion. lie had done it however perfectly disinterestedly for
the proposed alteration would not in the least degreo
affect any of the lines with which he was connected.
His object was to endeavour to have everything set-
tled fair and right between all parties. It was not
usual in any Bills which had been passed author-
ising an extension of time to railways to give
compensation to landowners on that account. He be-
lieved that not a single extension Bill had been passed
containing such a provision. The effect of a clause of
that sort in the present Bill would be that every rail-
way company would be liable to an action from
any attorney who might please to give notice that
A B C or D, or any party holding a small patch of
land would require compensation. The company would
in such case have to go before a jury, and nearly all the
expenses would have to be borne by them. He. did not
(as it was imagined)
believe that the House would lend
.itself to
with such provisions.
to any such harrassing process. If the object of the
Bill were to extend the time for the conatrution of these
the Bill
looratgohetato
pmarketass
With respect to the engagements which had been en- •
tered into by railway companies to pay for the land upon I
s given day, the passing of this measure would not in the
notsease
the
certainlym o ne