The Sun.
London, England, 1847-04-23 00:00:00

EDUCATION.

Sir W. CLAY presented seven petitions against the
Government scheme of education, and one in favour
of it.

IMPORT DUTIES.
Mr. HUME wished to know whether it was the in-
:ention of the Government to introduce any Bill this

session to repeal certain anomalies in the import-
laws, which inflicted great injury upon the trade of the
country, and the community at large ?
Lord J. RUSSELL said, in reply to the general
question of the Hon. Member, he had to state that it
was not the intention of the Government to introduce
such a Bill.

Mr. HU-1/1E said, then, as the Government had not
made up :heir minds on the matter he should on Mon-
day specify the laws to which he' referred, and repeat
the question.
NATIONAL EDUCATION.—ADJOURNED
DEBATE.
On the order of the day being read for resuming the
adjourned debate,
Sir W. CLAY rose and said, it was his intention to
support the motion of his Honourable Friend the
member for Finsbury; but he could not do so with-
out stating the reasons which had induced tuna
to come to that determination. He wished
to guard himself from any misconception as to his views,
as one of the inconveniences of the mode by which this
great question had b3en brought before the House—
namely, by a resolution for the proposed grant rather
than by a Bill—was, that it could not be so easily
separated into its various divisions anti discussed in
detail; therefore Honourable Gentlemen were more
liable to misconstruction. He intended, by his
vote, to express his disapprobation of the Go-
vernment plan; but by that vote he did not mean to
declare his opinion that the State ought not to extend
education atnorig the people ; still less did he intend to
give a vote of censure on the Government. If it had
been intended to convey a vote of censure, he should not
have voted for it. lie thought, however, that the
Noble Lord ought not to have yielded to the
pressure winch had been made. The Noble Lord said
he did not approve of every part of the scheme—ho
would be very much surprised if he did agree with it.
He himself, after anxious consideration, was of
opinion that there were so many and such serious
ob'eetitns to the scheme th tt it would be better

to wait for some time, until they were able to propound
a better measure, freed from these objections. This was
not:a mere grant for one hundred thousand pounds;
they were about to lay tha foundations of a wide
and comprehensive scheme, and they mere, therefore,
bound to establish a sound principle. His objections to
the measure were insuperable. It was with regret ho
differed from the Noble Lord, but he did so conscien-
tionsly. He had endeavoured to state the grounds of
his opposition as briefly and temperately as possible.
He had the consolation to support him that the eloquent
speech of his Right Hon. Friend had not at all touched
the real merits of the question. That speech, and the
other speeches delivered on that side, had convinced
him that there was a great lack of education ; but they
had not all proved to his satisfaction that this measure
would meet the evil. He believed that this Bill would

in a very great degree tend to place a great amount of
power in the hovels of the Church of England. He
thought the Church was rich enough to support its
own schools, instead of coming to the House for assist-
ance. Were the present measure passed, then the
Church would be able easily to fulfil its conditions re-
specting the schools, and by obtaining the proposed
increased.
Not their power would be immensely
Not less than from 80,000 to 100,000 persons would be
brought into the pay of the State, each person receiving
on an average from 15/. to 20/. yearly. To the appoint-
ment of these parties as eligible to receive the pro-
posed grant: the clergymen of the Church were
parties. Was the House prepared to grant this addi-
tional power? Now, he would ask, did history show
that such an arrangement could be made with advan-
tage? No wonder the Church was so much in favour
of the scheme, and the clergy attended at all the meet-
ings got up in favour of the plan.—(Hear, hear.)
He had no doubt that, in one sense, this scheme would
prove beneficial, for it would give the clergy a very im-
portant influence over nine-tenths of their parishioners.
lie thought, however, that the power given to the mem-
bers of the Church would be injurious to their
manly independence and freedom of thought, be-
sides introducing amongst them an occupation foreign to
those duties for which they were originally intended.
It was quite impossible for the Roman Catholics to avail
themselves of the benefits of the scheme, for it was
coupled with such conditions as entirely precluded the
attendance of their children at the schools, and this,
in his opinion, was a fatal objection to the
scheme. Nor had the speech of his Right Ho-
nourable Friend the Member for Edinburgh tended in
the slightest degree to increase his approval of it, and if
the brilliant ability of his Right Hon. Friend was in-
sufficient to throw around it anything like justification,
whence was it to be obtained? The favouritism of the
Right Honourable Member was threefold. In the first
place, he asserted that the members of the Church of
England constituted the great majority of the popub!.
tion, supposing a village to contain a thousand inhabi-
tants—and nine hundred of them were members
of the Church, they were obliged to leave
the hundred. Secondly, the Dissenters, he con-
tended, would be no worse off than they were
before ; and, finally, that the Dissenters would
obtain the advantage, in common with all other
parties in the country, of the increased security
for property which the improved education would in-
duce. Such was the best excuse which his
Right lion. Friend had been enabled to make,
but what would be said sui posing the same argu-
ments were to Le adopted with regard to the poor-
law which they were about to pass for Ireland. What
would be said, supposing it was to be alleged that the
na'n rity was to receive no benefit from that law ? In
that country the Church of England happened to
be in the minority, and what would its members
say if none but those who held the doctrines
of transubstantion were to be allowed relief?
Well, but let them look at it
promoters in its
beato f
theaspects—in
em
those aspects in which thebe
wished it to o viewed. The Right Hoe, Gentleman
the
Macaulay)
_said, if
there were
particular locality,
one connected with the Church of England, another
with the Free
Church of Scotland, a third with
the
Wesleyans, and a fourth with
Member-e fourfor Edinburgh
rgi 'l
in a (Mr.
the Inde-
pendents, they would equally participate in the
grants, and asked if this would be injustice? But if four
csehhiloderelsnwfeorre oopneen,edt
they i na
would district
four
dc
sufficientschools
in-
stead
onele,
vugil
leaving
b
good school.
t betterashi t lhttoearti leaveho in
d a
Rather than
aogtnam sit was
abouteas
measure
eh
atoa
result t
elntnt ofa itt would
,ry aid, instead of repudiating that principle and
voluntary
uus
retaining its worst characteristics. He denied that the
qtiuliesslsti,oans
aw
stepas
tn surroundedthe ri
right
di e
eten (
htw difficulties,directionat
hear)—
as he considered that it was a step in the opposite direc-
tion, as it would promote sectatian differences, instead of
a general and national system of education, and would
lead to an unequal distribution of the grant. lle had
said that he wus in favour of the avernment promoting
the education of the people ; but in a country where
private opinion prevailed to so great an extent as it did
in this, he considered that the religious education of the
child should be left to the parents. Public opinion had
materially altered :ince 1839, and therefore the adoption
of such a scheme as that proposed in 1839
might be adopted without difficulty, and withot4
materially interfering with the rights of consience.
He would have left things as they were ; he would have
left it optional with the lecalities whether they wouldd,
accept the grunt or not. In a short time it would 1)4
exceedingly, widely, and extensively, accepted. That
would be a sound and comprehensive scheme, worthy
the House to adopt and fight through. In the mean-
time, so great were the objcctiors to this scheme, Oa
he considered it woud be better fur them to let the,
voluntary principle work its way—let them trust t 4
it for by accepting the present measure they
would be sanctioning the very worst error that they pos •
siblv could. Let them then wait for some nuspictoto
moment, when they would have a great national schemes