The Sun.
London, England, 1847-10-06 00:00:00

The examination occupied nearly three hours.

HAMBURGH and FLANDERS MAIL.
BRUSSELS, OCT. 2.—At the grand military
manoeuvres on the 27th ult., which took place in
the presence of more than 50,000 spectators, several
accidents occurred. At the sham fight two soldi( vs
were killed, and several men, together with some of
the spectators, were wounded by the firing.
M. Doignon, Commissary General of the Bank, has
sent in his resignation.
FEANItFOR,T, SEPT. 29.—DUTIES ON THE RHIN I
—The committee for the navigation of the Rhin, ,
now assembled at Mayence, have arrived at the fol-
lowing decision :—Prussia proposes to reduce 30 pei
cent. the duties of navigation of every kind, but an-
other proposition has been made by Nassau, that of let-
ting the duties up the river amount to the level of those
down the river, which is equivalent to reducing th(
first tariff one-third. The Governments ofßatavil,
and Baden have addressed to the Prussian a proposition.
and their commissioners, as well as those of Prussia.
have implicitly accepted the proposition of Nassau :
in regard to the French Government this is ex
tremely liberal, being disposed to adhere to
any proposal of a reduction which ml r•
be presented. Holland is naturally of the
same opinion as Nassau, and manifests a pre-
ference to the up tariff. Hesse opposes both the pro-
positions, or rather in giving its adhesion, it subjoins
the condition that Prussia shall make the present
franchise cease on paid goods. This is a concession
which Prussia cannot make, for it strikes at the root
of its general system, and if it were to adopt it, the
Rhenish provinces would complain with good reason
that they are not so well treated as the other pro-
vinces of the Elbe and the Weser. It is hoped that
these considerations will have their due weight with
Hesse, and that the proposition of Nassau will thus
obtain the assent of all the states bordering on the
Rhine.
On the 23d of September the King of Prussia
passed through Cologne, for the purpose of visiting
the cathedral, and inspecting the new buildings of
the Civil Hospital. His Majesty was met by a depu-
tation of the commercial council, and was addressed
by M. Stupp, one of the members. The council
had hoped to have profited by this opportunity for
obtaining the right of open debates in the corporation.
His Majesty refused his concession, in a somewhat
formal answer, adding, that since the city of Cologne
had given a preference to the French commercial
legislation, to the rejection of the Prussian legislation,
they must be content to confine themselve to that,
without overstepping it, and they must endeavour to
realise the new system by degrees.
BELGIAN FUNDS.—Bausszis, OCT. 2.
Actual Debt, 2% per Cent .
Rothschild's Loan, Five per Cent •••• • • • •
Loan of Thirty Millions, Four per Cent —
Ditto Three per Cent •• . _
Ditto Thirty-seven Millions, ditto —
Ditt0,ditte,1840................ ..
Ditt0,ditt0,1842............ • • • •
Ditto, 1844..
Ditto, 1836... .• •• • • ••••••• • • • • • • • 89%
Ditto, 1838 ...... •••••••• •• • •• • •• .. 66
Ditto of the City, 1832 .• •• • • • 99%
Ditto, 1843 ••••• • • • .• •• 95%
Bank of Belgium ..... •.•••• • • . • .. 83 %
—Brussels Papers, Oct. 2.
AUSTRIAN FUNDS.—VIENNA, SEPT. 25.
5 per Cent. Metalliques— • •••.•• • • .• • • 104%
4 per Cent. ditto... • • •••••• • • • • • • 94
3 per Cent. ditto.. •
Loan, 1834 184
Ditto, 1839
Bank Shares .. • • • • • • • • .• • • • • 1602
Esterhazy's Loan ........
RAILWAYS.
The Northern, or Ferdinand • • • • • 154%
Gloggnitz ••••••-• • • • • • • ••••••• • • • • • • 120
Vienna—Milan .. •• • •• • • •• • • • • • • •• • • •• 108
Pesth Bridge
Apenninen .
HAMBURGH BORSENHALLE, OCT. I.
Bills. Money.
kustrian 5 per Cents •• •• •• 106
Bank Shares • •
Anglo-Russian Loan . • 104%
Russian 5 per Cent., Hamb. Certificate. 100% 100%
Ditto let serleslnscription.. • • • • .... • • 101 1003(
Ditto, ?lope and Co., 3d and 4th series • • 96
Ditto, in Certificate• • .• • • • • • • 96
New 4 per Cent., Hope and Co. •• 88
Ditto Stieglitz ..
Spanish New 5 per Cent •••-••• • • • • • • • 12% 12%
Ditto 3 per Cent .• • • •••••• • • • • • • 22%
Anglo-Portuguese Loan, 2% per Cent • .
Dutch Actual Debt, 2% per Cent. •• • •
Ditto 3 per Cent. ................
Polish New 4 per Cent. Loan, 1844....
Anglo-Danish Loan, 3 per Cent • ....•
National Bank Shares.. •

THREE NEW PEERS.—Sir Charles Coote, Bart., is
residing at Ballyfin, Mountrath. It is with inexpres•
sible pleasure we are enabled to announce that the
worthy baronet is immediately to be raised to the
British peerage, together with the Right Hon. Lord
Chief Justice Doherty, and the Right Hon. Sir John
Cam Hobhouse, Bart. Mountratb, it is said, is to give
name to the first-mentioned of the three new peers.—
Dublin Evening Packet.
STATUE OF THE LATE KIRKMAN FINLAY, ESQ.--7
The statue of the late Mr. Finlay, of Castle Toward,or
subscribed for by the merchants of Glasgow,
Gibson, the' eminent
sculptor, placed in the Merchants ;House. It
exe-
cuted in Rome: by Mr. John Giurs
d y to see the
sculptor, who was present on h
Thursday
statuea is after a
statue placed in a proper Light. iwawsaaFinla 's death.—Scotch fifteen years before Mr. Finlay
's painted by Mr. John Graham Gilbert, about
Pe-
farmers' Gazette.
WESTMINSTER HOSPlTAL.—Yesterday a meeting
of governors and committee of the above hospital was
held in the board-room of the institution, for the trans-
action of general business. The report for the past
quarter stated that 2,474 out-patients had been placed
on the books, and 489 in-patients had been admitted.
Four wards, capable of receiving sixty more patients,
still remain shut up for the want of sufficient annual
income. During the past year there has been an excess
of expenditure beyond the income of 1,097/. 19s. 8.1.
The hospital is situated in the lower and most densely
populated part of Westminster, and has been in existence
for 128 years, during which period it has afforded relief
to nearly 340,000 patients.
Dr. Bompas (brother of the late Sergeant Born-
pas), who was in practice as a physician at Gloucester,
has left his Estates, real and personal—the latter
amounting to 10,0001.—t0 his widow for her life, and
then to his children. The acting executors are his
brother-in•law, J. G. Smith, barrister, and E. G.
Smith, solicitor, together with his son, Dr. Bompa.,
Physician. The late Sergeant was also appointed an
executor.

Fires in chimneys in France have been prevented
by placing three frames of wirework, one foot above
each other, near the base of the chimney ; no flame will
pass through them, while the dratight of the chimney
will not be impaired, consequently no fire can ever hap-
pen in the chimney.

maws..Wll.lo
THE CURRENCY QUESTION.
BIRMINGE lAM, TTJESDAY.-- The meeting of "friends
to the cans e. of currency reform," held here last
night, excit( id some interest among commercial men
in the town , Ciough the attendance of the general
platformhxe .
p r
Harlow,oproceed-
, e e d
s ve
public was. not large, and scarcely seemed to be soli-
cited. Ab out 400 gentlemen were present during
paiot l
nnhbagTdesc
esehm!
evrtlreeoci.
da
rriitT, ee.
Abr T.
te ,
r3d;tßßps.
jamt.dEhri
veAetdsNmocrt fhiisugraotenhihsdudetel.swerel.h-meolarit.no
gGo ka
rpgOaorirtly in t,h eagt
cwo
novuel
ndi
np r oc
theee dm
ei
entitnhge. first
taking the ( :hair he had to state thgat there ha' id been
some delay : in the proceedings, in consequence . of the
absence of tl ie Members for North Warwickshi re and
for the bore ugh, who had been engaged in important
business, an d unable to attend punctuirily. Wi•.th re-
gard to the , question it was one of great imports nee—
(Messrs. N ewdegate, Spooner, and Muntz ei itered
here and wi !re received with great applause)—aiefect-
affecting a) 1 the interests of the kingdom fron: the
highest to the lowest in trade and commerce. The
events will( :h had lately taken place were suffic lent to
draw the a ttention of the community to the subject.
Without giving any particular opinion of his own, he
might be it istified in saying that the present monetary
system was ill suited to meet the growing wealth,
trade, and i nanufactures of this great kingdom. He
would not . offer any particular observations, but wait
for those g entlemen who would bring forwai d the
proposition s, to which, no doubt, they would wive a
fair hearin g and consideration.
Mr. H ARLOW then read the following reaolu-
dons :
" 1. Tht it the existing depression of trade and com-
merce, as e .videnced by the numerous failures of houses
of undoubt ed solvency, is attributable to the restri.etive
and unsout id monetary system established by the Acts
of 1819 and 1844, which injuriously interferes with all
mercantile engagements, rendering the same course of
action which is at one time prudent and secure at an.b•
other time entirely ruinous. That a single deficient h ar-
vest would not have affected materially the great in te-
rests of the nation had not the evil of scarcity of food
been aggravated by an artificial scarcity of money,
producing a forced and unnatural depreciation in the
values of commodities and other property, and a
sudden and extreme increase in the rate of interest,
and leading to the withdrawal of the usual banking.
facilities from parties engaged in certain important
branches of trade and commerce, and the consequera
limitation in the demand for labour. That a monetary-
system which necessarily breaks down under the
effects of a limited exportation of gold for the needful
supply of food, producing from such cause a general
derangement of trade and commerce, and an enormous
depreciation in the values of property and commo-
dities, thus greatly increasing a national misfortune
like that of a bad harvest, is vicious in principle and
destructive in its operation to the well-being of the
community.
" 2. That the arguments now being used to mislead
the public as to the effects of the expenditure of
money in railway works and other undertakings of a
national character, and to withdraw the attention of
the mercantile and trading classes from the real evils
under which they are suffering, are of no value
whatever, and can only be taken as an evidence
that, in the present position of the country, the
monetary means are not afforded to the profitable
employment and maintenance of the population.
That in the opinion of this meeting, justified by
the history of the present century, this country,
so long as its mercantile and trading operations
are not limited by unnecessary monetary restric-
tions, is fully able to bear an expenditure equal
to that required for the construction of railway
works, inasmuch as that it has borne, without injury
or derangement, a much larger expenditure for carry-
ing on a protracted war, and for other purposes not
likely to become reproductive. That the necessary
expenditure for making the railways sanctioned, after
mature deliberation, by Parliament, has led to the
employment of a vast amount of labour in various
parts of the United Kingdom, and to a consequent
demand for provisions and manufactured articles; and
chat no complaints of the pressure of railway calls
were made until the general business of the nation
was suddenly and injuriously affected by the restric-
tive operations of the Bank of England, rendered
necessary by the provisions of the Acts of 1819 and
1844. That the same restrictive monetary policy
has been attended with the same disastrous conse-
quences as in former years, when no expenditure for
railway purposes was proceeding; and that, although
in certain cases, the employment o' large amounts of
money for particular objects may lead to some tempo-
rary inconvenience, the evils under which the country
is at present suffering can be attributed in only a very
trifling degree, if at all, to the railway undertakings
now in progress, as those undertakings can but slightly
aggravate the difficulties arising from other and more
permanent causes.
"3. That it is the deliberate opinion of this meet-
ing that the Executive Government will incur a
serious responsibility unless they at once propose and
carry into effect some temporary measure calculated
to restore the monetary means and the credit of the
country to an efficient state, and thus to relieve the
commercial and trading classes. That relief and as-
sistance have been afforded in former periods of
extreme national danger and difficulty; and that
there has been no occasion during the last fifty years
when the relief was more imperatively required than
it is at this time. That the demand for labour is
rapidly diminishing in the manufacturing districts ;
and that it will be extremely dangerous further to
neglect those remonstrances which have been already
addressed to Members of the Government, with the
view of inducing them to preserve the nation from the
serious evils which would follow the general suspen-
of employment.
" 4. That while measures of a temporary nature
are required to remove that most severe distress and
suffering which the population are now experiencing,
and to avert the more serious consequences with
which they are threatened, it is important that the
monetary policy of the country should undergo a fair
and searching inquiry before a Committee of the House
of Commons. That it is recommended by this
meeting, that immediately on the assembling of Par-
liament petitions praying for the appointment of such
committee should be forwarded from all the principal
towns and public bodies in the United Kingdom.
That such an inquiry is rendered absolutely neces-
sary, now that the principle of protection to native
industry has been abandoned, and now that it has
become painfully evident that the interests of all
classes, the debtor and creditor alike, can only be
permanently secured by the establishment of a sound
monetary system, capable in its operation of sustain-
ing and extending the mercantile and trading trans-
actions of the nation, and , calculated to prevent
those extreme and dangerous fluctuations which are
the natural and inevitable results of
,the existing
system.
" 5. That the Committee of the Birmingham Cur-
rency Reform Association be requested communi-
cate the foregoing resolutions to her Majesty'st o
Mini-
sters, and to forward copies of the same to the Mem-
bers of both Houses of Parliament."

Mr. T. C. SALT, in seconding them, laid it down
as the " Birmingham doctrine" upon this subject of
the curreney, that metallic money and paper money
neVer did and never would circulate together for any
lengthened period ; wherever it had been attempted
panics had been the result. As the country ad-
vanced in population and enterprise, an exten-
sion of the paper system became necessary;
it got to bear a disproportionate amount to
the gold, and then the base became insufficient.
One great error had been in fancying that money,
which was in fact payment, must itself be paid.
Money was merely that which by law cancelled debt,
and all that men sought by trade was to obtain that
which should cancel their debts. All life WSB a
debt ; if a man ate his dinner, or obtained clothing,
he 'increased his debt, and the whole object of man-
kind was to obtain that which should cancel their
debts. But money cancelling debt would have in
itself an intrinsic value, or at least a, valueand thoaft
would fluctuate according to the quantity,
as value
w u
enact-
ment if it cancelled debt by
other necessary of life—
hunger for instance—as
tthhee
ncaeseeesswitiythorfegeaanrdnetlolinangy
of calncelling, debt. The only
was
s tvoa ureeguolfatmeonitesy
wwaeyll
raseatlhlye ntoecmesaskiteyt
issues. The
and
justly permanent
very assignats, the
opprobrium of paper money, read
us this lesson ; the only reason why they were depre-
ciated in value was because they were issued in
undue t" •
quan ities. We wanted a standard a
pound of measure. Not the pound of Sir R. Peel.
Was the sovereign that he held up as a pound a real
measure of value ? Why, a little while ago it took 96
of these to command 1001. of the national debt, and
230 of them to buy a North-Western share; and now
85 in the one case, and 1,50 in the other, would suf-
fice; but it was the sovereign that had changed, not
the article that it would buy ; 4,000,0001. of Bank
paper had been withdrawn ; money had become scarce
and changed.—(llear, hear.) The panic in the spring
was relieved by a loan from the Emperor of Russia,
and, therefore, people thought the evil day was over ;
but see now how the most solvent houses were failing
—those that were the very groundwork under the
London bankers. We should next see the rot among
the London banks, money further constricted, prices
depressed, but debts still payable in full. Trade existed
partly on the confidence of men, and it required a
great exertion to restore confidence when destroyed,
in December, 1825, the Bank bad to issue 10,000,0001.
in fburteen days to restore something of confidence.
The terror now was just as great, and would be in-
finitely greater before the week was over, and
the Bank had no power to increase its issues.
22.000,0001., with confidence, might enable the nation
to /arry on its trade, but with terror, 30,000,0001. or
40,000,0001. would not. Look at the effects of the
Bill of 1844 ; houses were failing, and we were told
not to be alarmed, for there would be twenty shillings

Wm the ; -why, what could be so alarming as
the
fact that solvent houlsis__eostrceaufasieling?—(Hear, hear.)
they had sped 2ulated
And why felling ?
largely, or bad been imprudent, but because ti ie ordi-
nary commercial facilities, on the faith of wl)i ch they
had made their engagements, were stoppec'i. These
the houses that had carried our go' ods to the
were
ea& of the t the—houses mostly of fifty years'
fI Lholll4ll
standing, that l " grown with our gro ;Ob." The
oaks of the forests if out down, could not .be 1111 aced
in a year, nor could we at once get large. cap itsilists
to embark in enterprise, or obtain the r equisi to tact
and skill. In letting these houses be swept aw ay, we
let our trade and our means of trade be swept away.
(Hear, hear.) Money must not be merch: andise.
The value of money depended wholly upon
its being legal tender, and upon its issues
being maintained in equilibrium with the wants
of society, and not at all upon its converti
and, therefore, it was idle to talk of "paper --rags,
and ask what they were to be paid in • that
which cancelled debt was in itself payment. Money
ought to be unchangeable in value, and. all I other
things should be compared with it. But, in taking
gold for coin, we raised it above its natural 7:e vel by
giving it a monopoly ; every multiplication ed paper
abated the value of the coin ; but, at the same time,
gold bars in their quality of merchandise had a ten-
dency to rise ; this was not perceived till soy! reigns
)ecame scarce, and then the whole paper . system
crumbled, because the base had been taken away.
Until we could do away these perpetual flue ti .cations
between paper and gold we could not have a me-
tallic anal paper currency together. Look at . France
as badly off as ourselves ; look at America, with
perpetual panics ; but in Brazil they had a l rarely
inconvertible paper, and no panics. There w' ere no
panics in England during the war. Some would
have it that the exportation of gold to buy wheat
caused the present mischief ; but during the war we
exported it in much greater quantities, for subsi dising
and not for food.—(Hear, hear.) However, m )thing
seemed likely to enlighten the public upon thi2 sub-
ject but the scourge being applied; it would be ap-
plied, and it was richly deserved.—(Hear.)
The CHAIRMAN said it had been intimated t o him
that one of the Members of the Northern Division
of the county, who attended at great person: sl in-
convenience, was, before the resolutions wer4i put,
desirous of addressing the meeting—he meant Mr.
Newaegate.—(Cheers.) That gentleman, as they
were well aware from a perusal of the debates in
Parliament, had evinced great attention to and know-
ledge of the subject, and he had great pleasure in
introducing hisn to the meeting.
Mr. NEWDEGATE, M P., was then received with
vociferous cheers. He commenced by observing that
it certainly was at some personal inconvenience that
he attended on that occasion, but, having the honour
to represent a portion of that great commercial com-
munity, and disapproving, as most of them did, of
the present monetary laws, he could not deny him-
self the opportunity of stating that, in his opinion,
the present circumstances of the country required the
deepest attention of the Government, and also the
interference of the Legislature; and, although he
could not agree in all the remedies proposed by
those present who had for years past so distinguished
themselves in the inquiry, he did agree with them as
to the evil under which the country was now suffer-
ing. Circumstances were daily occurring of so grave
a nature—(he would not say unparalleled, for similar
events had occurred in 1823, 1826, 1829, and 1840)
—that seeing their constant recurrence, unless a man's
mind was bigoted beyond all chance of conviction, or
any compromise of opinion, he must surely agree
with them that the time had arrived when a thorough
inquiry ought to be instituted into their cause and
lamentable effects. He joined them most cordially in
urging upon the Legislature an immediate inquiry.—
(Cheers.) In 1844 he (Mr. Newdegate) took an
active part in the House of Commons in opposing the
Bank Charter Bill. On the second reading he ob-
jected particularly to the restrictive clauses, and when
in Committee, he proposed a resolution (originating
with the Private Bankers' Committee) condemnatory
of the clause which arbitrarily limited the issues of
the Bank to 14,000,0001. For so fixing this amount
he at the same time saw no reason, except it was that
11,000,0001. was due by the Government to the
Bank, besides there being at the time an issue of
3,000,0001. Ex&equer-bills.—(l-lear, hear.) He
(Mr. Newdegate) therefore proposed that the Bank
should have the power, in cases of emergency like the
present, to issue 22,000,0001., that being about the
average of their issues for some years previous.—
(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. .Newdegate) confessed he
did not ge to the vote ; but he would ask them,
would it not have been worth something to the com-
mercial interests if the currency had been rendered
so far elastic as to enable the Bank to replace that
money which they had been obliged to pay for corn,
and thus in some degree meet the present exigencies
of the country ?—(Cheers.) And what did they now
find ?—that the Bank had only seven millions of bul-
lion. In September last they possessed about four-
teen millions. The potato disease then occurred—
this was succeeded by a bad harvest; and it was es-
timated in the House of Commons by Mr. Baring, a
former Chancellor of the Exchequer, that the loss to
country was not less than 16,000,0001. What
bad followed ? They had now had a good harvest ;
but at a moment when plenty awaited them, owing to
the iron rule of the money laws, they were unable to re-
cover from past disasters, or to take avdantage of future
prospects. (So we understood the argument of the
Hon. Gentleman to be.) And for what were they
subjected to this iron rule ? He believed the inten-
tion to be by degrees to bring them down to a condi-
tion in which the monetary affairs would depend
solely upon the state of the exchanges.—(Hear, hear.)
Now he (Mr. Newdegate) was one who never wished
to deny the position of an adversary. If, therefore,
this country was solely an exporting country, and
depended wholly upon foreign trade, he would admit
that their money should be measured by their foreign
trade. He (Mr. Newdegate) did not undervalue
their foreign trade, but he could not shut his eyes to
the fact that it formed only one-third to two-thirds of
their trade ; and he would ask whether they ought to
give preference to one out of three, or whether two
interests ought not to have the preference of one
(Hear, hear.) He would ask another question.
Were they, the people of England, unincumbered ?
Were they not nearly 800,000,0001. in debt, and
had they not annually to pay 28,000,0001., the in-
terest of that debt, besides the great and varied liabi-
lities of one to another? Was it reasonable then

that they should thus be tied down to this approved
system of exchanges ? He Would not enter into the

- _ ....,
deep abstract question respecting the value of money,
but he could not but allude to one or two circum-

stances. The people of Newcastle, in an interview which
they had recently had with the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, stated, that, unless some relief was af-
forded to them, they must be participators in the
common suffering which pervaded other parts of the

kingdom. What was the answer they received ? The
Right Hon. Gentleman replied that the evils of
which the deputation complained were beyond the
reach of human interference, and that he hoped the
circumstances of the country would be alleviated, and
the existing distress pass away. He (Mr. Newde-
gate) entertained great personal respect for the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, and he must say that he was
the most hopeful man of his acquaintance.—
(Laughter.) Last session a deputation waited upon
the same Right Hon. Gentleman, and told him that,
in consequence of a want of money, they were not
able to procure food for the people. The Right
Hon. Gentleman, as usual, expressed his confidence
in the temporary depression, and believed it would
speedily pass away. A Mr. Nameless, a Member of
the House of Commons, came to him on that occa-
sion, and, referring to the manner in which the Chan-
cellor had met the representations of the deputation,
said his name ought to be, instead of Sir Charles, Sir
Confident Wood.—(Laughter.) Now, what was the
condition of the country ? They had been obliged to
expend 7,000 000/. to make up the loss of the crops—
they had made a loan of 8,000,0001. to relieve the
destitution of Ireland,
in railway tau, and 34,000,0001. had been paid
little short, ,aoso that during the last year
had been advanced
1000/.
beyond the ordinary 'r)
uponNuments of the country. Now,
during the war,
loans for that puri)%seaverage of three years, the
50,000,0001. ; but this, the amounted annually to
gether an unproductive e7xpt.mrAT recollect, was alto-
:ttire. On the other
and, with one exception, the
last year were with a view to prodttLaid during the
ask, then, with their imports doubled
He would
ports increased nearly one-third—with Zijcittheir ex-
sufficient to meet all exigencies—whether -
wealth
ters ought to be forced upon the court ti;thtia:tis:
failure of one or two great commercial houses •;.'e
(Cheers.) The fact was, that a party in the State s
was determined that gold only should constitute
capital and money. Sir Robert Peel, during the last
session' said that gold was capital, and in that
sense differed from paper. To maintain this doc-
trine it mattered not what became of the tradesman
or the labourer ; live or starve was to the advocates

of these opinions a matter of comparatively little
thought or consequence.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr.
ZTewdegate) was not adverse to convertibi-
lity ; but the man was incapable and unfit to
be Prime Minister of this great kingdom who was
bigoted in the support of one doctrine, or who would
sacrifice the interests of the country for the sake of
one crude opinion.—(Cheers.) He thanked them
sincerely for the manner in which they had listened
to him ; and begged to add his own sad conviction
that, until an inquiry had taken place, as suggested
by the resolutions proposed, and until they had a
monetary system adapted to the circumstances of the
country, they could not hope for permanent pros-
perity. Ile (Mr. Newdegate) believed that if in-
quiry,,was respec
tfully urged upon the Government
--if the commercial intorests could show that the
present system, from no fault of their own, threatened
them with impending ruin—he believed if such a

course was taken, the present Prime Minister, with
whom he (Mr. Newdegate) differed upon many ques-
tions, but honoured, for many reasons, would not
turn a deaf ear to them, but give them a patient hear-
ing.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman said he
hoped they would excuse his hasty appearance, and
concluded by joining in a fervent prayer that their
petition and remonstrances might obtain from the
Government and Parliament a due and patient hear-
ing.—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. MUNTZ, M.P., in obedience to londs calls, next
came forward, and said he was anxious that some
gentleman from the body of the room should. first
have addressed the meeting, but he had no objection
briefly to state his views upon the subject they were
met to discuss. Sure he was, that if the people
.of
Birmingham thought as he did upon the question,
that room would not have contained a tithe of those
who would have been anxious to gain admission.
Upon it depended altogether the prosperity or ruin
of the country.—(Cheers.) He had always said that
free trade, unless it was accompanied by an altera-
tion of the currency, would increase rather than
alleviate their difficulties.—(Hear, hear.) He was
aware that there had not been suffieient time (and
also in consequence of a bad harvest) to judge of
the effects of the late free-trade measures; but of
this he felt assured, that they felt the present dis-
tress in a tenfold degree in consequence of the exist-
ing money laws. He had always said, in the House
of Commons and elsewhere, that 19-20ths of the
evils which affected the people of this kingdom
were to be attributed to the grossest ignorance of
the principles of government ; and, moreover, that, if
justice had guided legislation, corn-laws never would
have existed, and never been wanted, because corn
would always have been remunerative.—(Hear, hear.)
He believed their difficulties might be eased in a day,
relieved in a week, and a state of prosperity be per.
manently established.—(Cheers.) Reference had
been made to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. And
Sir Charles Wood, with whom he sometimes came in
contact, was a pleasant, good-humoured gentleman—
(Laughter)—but he was the most flippant superficial
man he ever met with.—(Laughter and cheers.) He
recollected he was once examined before a Committee
of which Sir C. Wood was chairman, and Sir Robert
Peel a member. Sir Charles came to him a short
time before he was called before the Committee, and
said, " We are going to examine you to-day, but there
are two things you must not mention." " What are
they ?" inquired I. " Currency and the corn-laws,"
replied the Chancellor.—(Laughter.) "But you can-
not examine me without my mentioning them." "But
you must not," said Sir Charles.—(Laughter.)
" But I can't help it," replied I.—(ltoars of laughter.)
" Well," said the Hon. Member, " I was called in ;
we went to work, and in a quarter of an hour we were
at a dead stand-still.—(Loud laughter.) I was then
out for an hour, and upon my return it was deter-
mined that I should be examined generally." The
Hon. Gentleman proceeded to say, that, in 1844, a
Right Hon. Baronet read a part of this evidence in
order to controvert some statements he (Mr. Muntz)
had then made in the House ; but, finding that every
quotation made against him, he shut up the book with-
out reading the whole of it. It was very easy for a
person to contradict another when he did not under-
stand the question upon which they were speaking ;
and he (Mr. Muntz) believed that in the course of
twelve months the people of this country would
generally believe that the Right Hon. Baronet to
whom he alluded—oracle as he was considered to be
—never understood the subject of the currency.—
(Cheers.) People were now-a-days in the habit of
saying " Oh, we admit that the return to cash
payments was an evil—true it is that it has done
injury—but, by returning to the old system, we
shall be doing as great injustice as that of which
we complain." Now, he (Mr. Muntz) would
say that this was a great fallacy ; for he should
contend that justice could not be done until all prices
and all debts were reduced to the standard and
prices of 1790. That was the position in which they stood. When the Bank Charter was under dis-
cussion, in 1844, he had contended for a margin
upon which the Bank of England in cases of emer-
gency might work—that they might possess elastic
powers in cases of pressure like the present. This,
however, was resisted, for the Bill of 1844 was
passed to work out the Bill of 1819.—(Hear, hear.)
He (Mr. Muntz) confessed that he should now be
sorry to see that Bill repealed.—(Hear, hear.) He
had no doubt it would shortly work out the only
remedy for the whole evil.—(Cheers.) A great
.deal
had been said about gold. Now, he had no objec-
tion to gold. What he complained of was, that the
coin was made of the wrong quality. After referring
at some length to the operation of the present effects
of the currency, the Hon. Gentleman said all those
persons who took the views he did upon this question
had for years past been stigmatised as " madmen "
he had often been called a madman—but he had en-
tertained the views he now advocated for thirty-five
years, and he found them to be correct.
Holding such opinions, and having for so
long .6, period tested them by practical ex-
perience, it was not very likely he should give them
up to those who said that free trade would
cure all the evils under which they were suffering.
Now, the first proposition he should make, by way of
remedy, would be the suspension of Peel's Bill,
although he thought any alteration short of an altera-
tion of the standard would fall short of the purpose.—
(Hear, hear). But it would be impossible, in the
hrst instance, to debate the latter question. There
must be in the outset a temporary suspension of
Peel's Bill, and then they could talk of the standard.
That being done, he should then contend that there
should be no connexion between the Government and
the Bank of England—(Cheers)—that the Bank
directors should not have the power, as at present, of
controlling the circulation of the country.—(Cheers.)
H. e would say, without giving offence, that it was not
right that twenty-four gentlemen, all connected in
various ways with trade and commerce, should have
the power of regulating the monetary affairs of the
country.—(Hear.) He would have then a national
bank, the commissioners placed at its head being made
responsible to Parliament.—(Cheers.) Then he
could increase the circulation of notes until ad

vanced so far as to meet the necessities of the
country ; and, in conclusion, he could have a
silver standard according to the average price of
wheat.—(Cheers.) But he saw no wish to do anything.
If they could obtain a Parliamentary Committee, con-
sisting not of men who wished to trap or make fools
of those subjected to examination, but of men who
wished to do right, he could see no difficulty in re-
lieving the country and rendering it again prosperous.
—(Cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman, after referring
to some misunderstanding between himself and a
local paper, again deprecated free trade unless there
was an alteration in the money laws. There was not
a trade in the country that could compete with
foreigners—they were quite as clever as we are; and
if the English people thought that, under the present
money laws, they could compete with foreigners, they
were either excessively ignorant or excessively con-
ceited.—(Laughter.) If they continued the at-
tempt at free trade with the present monetary system
there would not be one trade i❑ Birmingham worth
carrying on. The Right Hon. the Chancellor of the
Exchequer said there was no scarcity of money ; but
if he had, as in his case, bills running of one month,
two months, and six months, and could only get one
month's bills discounted, and those at inordinate rates
of discount, he would then know what the want of
money was. It was very easy for the Chancellor of
the Exchequer, who could borrow money, by way
of loan, at a great loss to the country, to talk in this
manner. The fact was, he (Mr. Muntz) never heard
such remarks from the members of the Government

but he felt a disgust for Parliament.—(Cheers.) He
told the Chancellor of the Exchequer that he did not
care a farthing for the opinions of Ministers who had
no practical experience. Now he (Mr. Manta), for-
sooth, went to Parliament to learn the business and

wants of the country from gentlemen who went out
shooting, or else walked about the streets for the
greater part of their lives. These men, he was to be
told, knew more of his business than he did, who had
for forty years been practically engaged in it. If,
however, his business was to be carried on by such
parties, he was afraid it would be done to little profit.
Mr. Aluntz concluded a long speech amidst tumul-
tuous applause.

At the conclusion of Mr. Muntz's speech, a gentle-
than situated at the reporters' table rose to address
the meeting, and being asked his name, he stated
himself to be Mr. Taylor, of Bakewell, Derbyshire.
Being recognised as the well-known writer upon the
subject of the currency he was loudly cheered, and
invited into the orchestra amongst the other speakers.
Mr. TAYLOR, on presenting himself, said he had
travelled seventy miles to attend that meeting, and
'qe was in hope of greater good resulting from it than
'.,l2.,prared to be the expectation of Mr. Muntz. They
muanknejv that a repetition of distress was like a tale
to berlieT'es
a
told. Former difficulties they were led
h wouldn pass away, and they were now told
y the Chcel
Chancellor of the Exchequer that the resources
of the country
were adequate to the emergency, and
it{lanaetw theiran d felt difficulties were but temporary, but they all
assared that the Right Hon. Gentleman
was greatly mistaken uponthatcou
ne
rtpoia
nn
et
bd. e
tThe
po
et
eh
ce
hr
day he fell upon a paper which
of the Chancellor of the Exchel
,luced his budget last year, and it
would3e
uld n he intr
a ho-
teresting to the meeting to know what thres Righte
[lon. Gentleman then said. He would quote a
pro-
minent passage of his speech :—" I do not,' said the
Chancellor, " anticipate anything like the results that
took place on former occasions, and I should li)e very
sorry to say anything calculated to create alarm ; and
I also confidently trust that the experience of former
years has not been lost upon the merchants and
traders. I am glad to hear from all quarters
the trade of the country is of a sound character,

and not of that speculative character of former
years. I am of opinion that the provisions
of the Bill of 1i44 have been sound in

principle, and the currency regulations have in-
duced persons to pursue a more wise and prudent
course. The result is, there has been less of wild
speculation than in former years. People have in-
vested their capital in home works, and the people
have been employed upon them, and thus benefit the
Exchequer to a considerable extent." These re-
marks were made in February this year; commercial
distress commenced in April, which was alleviated in
September. Subsequently it had come upon them
with increased violence ; and, if, after the warnings
and experience he.had had since that period, he was
insensible to correction they might well apply the
adage, " You may bray a fool in the mortar, and he
will not learn wisdom."—(Cheers.) He (Mr. Taylor)
thought symbolic money a great improvement upon
money of intrinsic value, just as he believed the
steam-engine to be a great improvement upon manual
labour. He believed that symbolic money would be
liable to be abused, but that the steam-engine had
been improved, and there was no reason why paper
money should sweep away all other descriptions of
money without some attempts being made to
cure the anticipated evil. They had the assurance
of Lord Liverpool that the country, under a system
of paper currency, was prosperous during the war.—
(Hear, hear.) The principle of Peel's Bill, when the
Right Hon. Baronet took up the opinions of Huskis-
son, was immediately acted upon in 1819 ; and it Sir
Robert Peel's opinion, that the essence of money was
value, was right, then also was Tom Paine when he
predicted the downfal of this country.--(Hear, hear.)
He (Mr. Taylor) entertained a different opinion. He
had read and written much upon the subject.—
("Hear, hear, hear," from Mr. Spooner.) He
thought that money not possessing intrinsic value,
but symbolic money, or paper, if brought into use,
would have the effect of raising their commercial and
manufacturing interests to a higher pitch of pros-
perity than ever before known in this country. The
history of all countries showed that wherever money
of intrinsic value was adopted as a circulating me-
dium it must end in ruin to the nation. They had al-
ways fallen when they came to this point.—(Cheers.)
His attention was drawn in 1828 to the fact that
money on metallic principle could not be carried
out without diminishing in weight, and thus doing
injury to credit and dealing. At the time Sir Robert
Peel brought forward his Bill in 1819 he said, in his
celebrated speech on the 24th of May in that year—
" The quantity of circulation which was demanded in a
time of confidence varied so materially from the amount
which a period of despondency required, that the
House must feel the absolute incapability of fixing on
any circumscribed amount. It was impossible to ad-
vert to the evidence taken before the Committee with-
out being impressed with this conviction." Here,
therefore, it was admitted by the Right Hon. Baronet
himself that it was impossible to fix any amount of
credit money.—(Hear, hear.) His (Mr. Taylor's)
opinions with respect to money differed frem those
of Mr. Muntz. His own opinion was such a system
might be adopted as would set the precious metals
at liberty, and render the price smaller ; that would
make money cheaper without diminishing the specific
quantity of coin. This would be by establishing a
tax-paying or credit money.—(Hear, hear.) He
was much pleased rthe other day in reading a speech
delivered in London by Mr. Jonathan Duncan, who,
to his mind, had clearly shown that a quantity of
paper-money might be issued without depreciating
value.—(Hear.) He (Mr. Taylor) could not help
thinking that it would be wiser if some distinct plan
of remedy, such as they were so often challenged to
produce, emanated from the present meeting in pre-
ference to the resolutions now submitted for their
adoption. He did think that commercial men, like
those he saw before him, were better qualified to
judge of those matters than such men as Sir Charles
Wood. Some years ago, just previous to the Reform
Bill, he was in communication with the Duke of
Wellington, and Mr. Irving, of the great house just
gone down, upon this all• important subject, and he
could not help but think that if Mr. Irving had
adopted his views and acted upon his principles as
then explained, he would, like himself, have been
saved from feeling the difficulties which the commer-
cial world and his firm in particular were now experi-
encing. In the year 1831 he had a conversation with
Colonel Peel, the brother of Sir Robert. They would,
perhaps, allow him (Mr. Taylor) to say that he was
a retail tradesman in the town of Bakewell, and also
carried on business as a banker, on a small scale, and
in the old fashioned way. He belonged, in fact, to a
race of tradesmen combining merchandise with bank-
ing, which was becoming scarce in the country. In
1831 Colonel Peel called at his counting-house and
requested cash for a Bank of England post bill for
201. " I presume," said Mr. Taylor, " you are the
brother of Sir Robert Peel." The Colonel replied
that he was. " I wish," said Mr. Taylor "he would
let us have more of this description of money."
Colonel Peel said, " I wish so too," and intimated
that his father was of the same opinion. In the
course of the interview he (Mr. Taylor) offered ant
essay on the currency, written by a young friend,
and the Colonel requested that he would also give
him a copy of his own pamphlets upon the subject.
He did so, and requested that he would be kind
enough to forward them to his brother for perusal.
The Colonel promised that he would, and that when his
brother had more leisure he should hear from him upon
the subject. He (Mr. Taylor) had, however, never
received a communication from the Right Honourable 1
Baronet. The reason he supposed was, the Right
Hon. Gentleman thought that persons in his circum-
stances, and who had not the honour of a seat in
Parliament, could not understand anything about such
a subject. He might offer other remarks ; but, if at
any future time some definite proposition was brought
forward, he should be happy to lend his assistance in
the discussion. He should indeed with pleasure stay
over the next day, if by so doing any good could be
effected.

A conversation here took place upon the expediency
of an adjournment, but there seemed to be a general
wish that the business should proceed, and
Mr. TAYLOR resumed. He regretted to observe
that their views had met with little support from the
public press. The Times had particularly treated
them with unbecoming and uncalled-for ridicule.
The spirit in which that journal treated other ques-
tions would have led him to expect differently.
After some further remarks, Mr. Taylor resumed his
seat amidst loud cheers.

No adjournment taking place, there were loud calls
for

Mr. SPOONER, who rose amidst enthusiastic cheers.
He said—Mr. Alderman Weston and fellow-townsmen,
I can assure you that I am exceedingly unwilling to
obtrude my opinions on this meeting, for very many
reasons, which, I believe, the assemblage will agree
with me, are deserving of some little weight. I first
began the consideration of the subject in the years
1810-11, and the subject again came before the con-
sideration of the country in 1819. My opinions are
formed on the great principle of the currency in 1819,
and from that time, I can safely say, I have given to
the subject the most thorough investigation of which
my mind and powers are capable. I can honestly and
conscientiously say I retain now the same opinions I
then formed ; and every day's experience convinces
me those opinions are sound and correct. Now, Sir,
in 1810, certain propositions were laid before the
House of Commons by a very talented man—a man
whose acquaintance I had the honour to enjoy,
and who took what I think a clear and luminous
view of the danger in which the country
was placed by the very unlimited extent to which
paper was issued, and the want of any check to its
depreciation. I so far agreed with that Hon. and
A Learned Gentleman ; but at the same time he proposed
a resolution which I was assured the country was not
in a state to carry out. He proposed during the war
—during the heat of an arduods contest, when we
were burdened with an immense and increasing debt,
with an annual expense which we cannot now but
wonder how it could be raised—he then proposed,
Sir, to return to the ancient standard of value. There
I dissented from him. I agreed that there existed
great depreciation. I agreed that there were many
causes, and that they demanded to be deliberately
considered, and that steps should be taken to arrest
the progress of the depreciation ; but I could
not agree in a resolution which I was convinced
was impracticable—a resolution calling on the
nation to realise their obligations in the me-
tallic standard of the reign of Queen Elizabeth.
Now, Sir, how was that gentleman met by Sir
Robert Peel in 1810.11 ? That resolution, as to the
depreciation then proposed, was long argued, and it
was solemnly determined that a one pound note and a
shilling, after six or seven nights in one House of Par-
liament, and five or six in the other, were for all legal
purposes the same as a guinea, and the Right Hon.
Baronet was of the same opinion. Now, I ask, how
can Sir Robert Peel reconcile that view with the one

he
11 now takes
lie ?
then
said
there a d
aVid,,No,,, b
uteplresciaia n
said
there
18 ' 10-
was—
and everybody who had investigated the subject were
of the same opinion then. The Right Hon. Baronet
wwhouenldthneotdedbetpawrtas from
increased the standardfrnrn
fnu
four hundred
nvnadlrueed
then,
mil-
lions to upwards of eight hundred millions, when
there was in 1810-11 a depreciation of some 15 to 16
per cent., and yet, in 1819, he called on Parliament
to enforce a return to the old standard of value,
which, in 1810-11, he said he would in no way de-
part from. Sir, I ask you, is that not enough to make
us doubt whether he is right now ? It is impos-
sible that he can be right in both cases. If he was
right in 1810-11—and I think he was wrong—
what becomes of his opinion in 1819 ? If he
was right in 1819, what becomes of his opinion in
1810-11 ? Well, we went on until 1819—in 1819.
In 1816 the law was changed altogether as to the
standard of value which existed in the country, the
original standard of gold and silver conjointly, with
metal. In 1816 the silver standard was taken away
and gold alone was adopted, with an increased weight
of taxation and an increase in all our debts of seven
or eight per cent. That, Sir, was the first step of

injustice in 1816. But, Sir, at the same time there
was another step of gross injustice. Up to that time
the standard of value was guarded, because there was
an enactment that the precious metals once coined
could not be turned back into a mercantile com-
modity, because melting and exportation were at-
tended with heavy penalties. Those laws, however,
were evaded, but not without some risk, by persons
uninfluenced by high moral considerations, who
sought for pecuniary profits, caring not for the
retention of their character, and who had no
hesitation in breaking the law. It was then
deemed advisable that the restriction should be
taken away, and the value of all debts, of all
claims of creditors, were rendered with the standard
of value very much dearer than as it existed in the
time of Queen Elizabeth. That was the second stage
of injustice. The Act, however, of 1816 was in
abeyance until 1819, and did not come into operation
as to legal tenders until the latter year. In 1820, for
a short time, I had the honour of a seat in the House
of Commons, and one night, when in the House of
Lords, I heard the late Lord Stanhope put the ques-
tion of the alteration of the standard of value, in a
very clear and able way, to the late Lord Liverpool,
who was then at the head of his Majesty's Govern-
ment. He asked the Noble Earl why he had made
the change ?—why he had picked out gold for the
standard of value in England, when it did not exist
in any other nation ?—why he had added to coin the
increased value which I have endeavoured to explain ?
And Lord Liverpool answered him in the flippant man-
ner in which Sir C. Wood replied to the Newcastle
deputation, and thus said the Noble Earl :—" The
reason why is, that I think the richest country ought
to have the richest standard."—(Laughter.) Now,
Sir, there is an old saying, which at that moment
pressed on my mind, I think it is from " Hudibras,"
" Who drives fat oxen should himself be fat." Sir,
what is the richest country ? The richest country ?
Why that involves large and unlimited commercial
transactions ; and how are they to be carried on unless
the standard of value has an expansive power to
meet and represent those transactions ? Therefore,
Sir, I say, if he should have taken the converse of
that proposition, and endeavoured not to limit the
power of the standard with our increased burdens, but
given it full play ; if he had let loose the energies of
industry ; if he had acted on the policy of Pitt ; on
those principles which enabled Pitt to carry on the
greatest war in which this country was ever engaged,
and which terminated in a glorious peace under the
walls of Paris, I think he would have done right.
Sir, those were the views I took in 1819. In 1820
I had a seat for a short time in the House of
Commons, in connexion with the late Mr. Dug-
dale, and had to present a petition from this
town, complaining of great distress. It fell to my
lot to make some statistical statements, and I had to
tell them of the number of cattle slain in this town,
for then there was a tax on hides, and a registrar
appointed, and the number was easily ascertained.
Well, Sir, in that short time, from the passing of the
Bill in 1819 to 1820, with an increasing population,
the number of animals slain had been very much
reduced. It had thrown many persons altogether out
of employ in this manufacturing district. At that
time they were arguing for the necessity of inquiry
into the causes of distress. Mr. Holme Sumner, the
then Member for Surrey, presented a petition from
the agriculturists. The ironmasters of this district,
the coppermen of Cornwall, the woolstaplers of York-
shire, the farmers all over the country—all sent peti-
tions; and there was one from this town, complaining
of distress, and asking for inquiry, perhaps the largest
that ever emanated from it. Well, Sir, Mr. Holme
Sumner asked for inquiry on behalf of the agricultu-
rists; but I said I should object to any inquiry limited
to any particular class of distress occasioned by Peel's
Bill, which was passed the year before ; and I also
said, that the distress could not be remedied unless there
should be a general inquiry into the effects which
that Bill had produced, and I said, Sir, sooner or
later, if that Bill were not repealed, it would shake
the foundations of society, and endanger the sove-
reignty of the Crown. I was not long in Parha-
m ent ; I was returned for a nomination borough, the
right of nomination being claimed by two great
families; I was nominated by one, and a petition
presented against my return. I was unseated.
There happened, however, that year to be a vacancy
for the county of Warwick ; I had no pretensions to
represent the county, but Birmingham endeavoured
to obtain, that which I think it had a right to, a
voice in the representation of the county, and did
me the honour to set me up as a candidate when
far, far from home. Well, Sir, what did I find
when I came home ? I found, as the chairman of my
committee, and one who had subscribed largely to-
wards the expenses of my election, the very father of
Sir Robert Peel.—(Cheers.) That gentleman stated
in this very town, and throughout the county of
Warwick, that he supported me because he had
heard me in the House of Commons give
the best exposition of the evils of his son's
Bill that he had ever heard at that time. I held
those opinions then ; I hold tham now—for these, Sir,
with me, are no new views. I remember the time when
my much respected friend and yours—Mr. Thomas
Attwood—and myself, were the only two persons in
Birmingham who had studied the subject, and given
our opinions on it at length, and then they laughed
at and ridiculed us, and called us the " Currency
Doctors of New-street." Sir, I for one will never be
laughed out of my opinion, and I defy ridicule to
drive me away from it ; I never will consent to give
it up unless lam convinced lam in error. In 1821-
22, there occurred the most dire distress that ever
pervaded England. The Luddites were abroad in
Nottingham, the population were out of employ in
millions, and they went up to London demanding that
steps should be immediately taken to evade the mis-
chief of Peel's Bill of 1819. Lord Castlereagh then
stated in public, and said to myself in private, that
they had carried the measure too rapidly; that
money must be put cut again, and there were then
four plans before Parliament to endeavour to re-
store prosperity. Well, then, trade for the next
three years was in an efficient state, but then came
the evil again. They had not cured but only tam-
pered with it; they had extended the currency, and
by it given employ to labour and the embark-
ing of skill and capital. Then all our articles of
productive power were above those of the continent ;
we ceased to export gold, and were taunted subse-
quently with over-speculations and with over-trading,
although the Minister of the Crown had avowed that
we had been in the lowest depths of despair, and it
was necessary to stimulate a little wholesome specu-
lation to call out the energies of the people. Gentle-
men, I am afraid I detain you.—(Cries of " No, no.")
I could go on and tell you of the evils arising from
gold deaving the country, and the panics which arose
in 1829-30, just before the Reform Bill passed. They
were then traced to building operations and other
speculative causes, with partial relief and greater dis-
tress, varying under different circumstances of the case
until 1844, when Peel said he had a complement for
them all, when he said he thought his Bill of 1819
would restrain the abstract fact of over-trading, and
the wild-goose chase of speculation, but now he would
put a greater limit to the total amount of the Bank of
England issues, and he would fix the arbitrary sum of
fourteen millions. I was not in the House of
Commons at the time when the Bill passed, but I went
up with a deputation of bankers to Peel, and I told
him—" Sir Robert Peel, your Bill of 1844 prevents the
fluctuating of which you complain, but if fully carried
out, I warn you that the first time a famine or any
want of food occurs, there will be a drain of gold,
and you must abandon your Bill, for you will not
be able to keep the population employed." Now,
Sir, I ask you to look at the present facts. This is
the first demand we have had for the importation of
corn, and in what situation is the Bank of England ?
Why, with her hands tied up, with the best, the
most undoubted security, possessing property to
three times the amount they require for an increased
circulation—they cannot do it because they are re-
strained completely by the complicated Bill of 1844.
Such is the unhappy state of things; and I say it is
for this great town—it is for the country in general
—to ask themselves, " shall we consent to stop the
whole commercial industry of the nation—shall we
consent to have our hands tied up—shall our whole
productive power be shut up, because Peel has said
that fourteen millions on security shall be the extent
to which the Bank of England ought to go ?" No.
Peel has said, " Perish cotton, perish corn, and all
other grain ; I have swallowed two or three of my
opinions, but I cannot swallow the rest." But now,
must state another
proceedingsanotherreason of this evening. I why I did not wish
tSoirt'akl epart in
am glad that I have come here to receive your direc-
tions ; but I know what will be said—it will be said that
it is a Spooner and Attrvood crotchet—that we want to
issue our inconvertible paper—that we want to foist
.
our dirty rags upon the country—that is not for
the interest of the nation, but for the indulgence of
our own miserable crotchet. I care not for that ; I
have refuted the calumny before, and I know the
distitch—

" You break the web of sophistry in vain,
The creature's at his dirty work again."
Now, Sir, it is for you and this meeting to speak out.
I ask you, are you content with things as they now
are ?—(Cries of " No, no.") Do you believe that
they are come to the worst ? I tell you—no. I tell
you it is utterly impossible that the means of labour
and employ can be found, whilst the circulation of
the country is taxed on seventeen millions of bank-
notes. Can any reasonable man expect to carry on
the transactions in which he is engaged on the same
taxes as fifty years ago. You have no more circula-
tion now—l doubt whether you have so much—and,
again, I ask you why should the metallic standard be
the same in the time of Queen Victoria as in the reign
of Queen Elizabeth ? There is an increase of taxa-
tion, there is an increase of price ; and then taxation
is laid on so heavily that it stops consumption, and
then the weight falls on the poor labourer, who is
obliged to cease to consume. Nothing can be clearer

than that there is a tax on every commodity. Gold
is a commodity, and therefore taxed. But we are
asked by the Right Honourable Baronet, in his mild,
pleasing, gentlemanly way, " What is a pound ?"
Why, I told him, and we all know, that a legal pound
is a certain quantity of gold, of a certain fineness,
and bearing the stamp of the Queen's head. But, Sir,
is that pound the same pound in which our eight hun-
dred million of debt was contracted ? Is it the same
pound with which the owners of the soil charged their
estates with pensions for their younger children ? I
answer " No." Look at the debates. I remember in
1820 I discussed the question with Mr. Ricardo, and
he then stated that the effect of a return to the old
standard would only make a difference of 4 per cent.
I ventured to doubt it, and to say that it would make
30 per cent.; and I understated the amount ; and
Mr. Ricardu then said, if he could agree with me that
the effect would be 30 per cent., or even 10 per cent.,
it would be impracticable, and we had no right to
undertake it. Now, I ask you all, as practical men
—as men in business—l ask you, from what you
know of that which went before, has the Bill of 1819,
has the change of currency, effected only an alteration
of 4 per cent., or whether you have not found that
it has made an alteration of from 13 to 14 per cent. ?
Has it not affected public credit? Has it not
affected private debts ? Has it not affected every
engagement into which you have entered ? Is not
property depreciated, whilst debts remain the same ?
Has it not robbed the debtors to the injustice of the
creditors ? Have they done what they ought to haee
done ?—and if the remedy is not applied, will there
not be a source of confusion and distress horrible to
be contemplated by every lover of the welfare of his
country ?—(Cheers.) Well, then, it has been ,said
that you rob the creditors, but I say that you cannot
do justice to all without doing slight injustice to some.
But I aver that it is to the interest of the creditors to
have a speedy adjustment of the monetary system ;
for the only chance of the creditor to receive that
which is due to him is to put the system on a just and
equal footing between the debtors and the creditors ;
to put out a circulating medium sufficient for the
energies of the people, and without which debts owing
will never be obtained. With respect to what I
should recommend on the present occasion, I wish to
have it known I declare it openly, and I believe my
late honourable colleague knows the same, that I had
not the slightest hand in getting up the meeting. I ab-
stained from it altogether. I knew it would be at-
tributed to Mr. Attwood and to me, and I considered
that it would be better to keep in the back ground,
and I determined not to stir a peg. If you, fellow-
townsmen, are ready to stir, we are willing to assist
you. I have tried to assist you for many years ; in
vain I endeavoured to press the truth upon you; and
I say to you it is now in your power to relieve your-
selves. Many have laughed at me in the House of
Commons and in the House of Lords. Some of them,
however, have within the last twenty-four hours
stated to me their alteration of opinion, that they be-
lieve the whole currency a delusion. The best way,
I think, is for the meeting to appoint a committee,
and then they should apply to you for funds. I re-
commend that committee to apply to the present
Government ; it is not easy to make any impression
on Sir Charles Wood, for he possesses that quality so
desirable to possess in difficult times, that he will not
see anything wrong—he will not believe that anything
is wrong until it comes home to his own house.
Gentlemen, the Right Honourable the Chancellor
of the Exchequer is like the ostrich of which
I have read—he hides his head in a bush, and then
believes that his whole body is safe. He says —let
the people only pay the taxes and all is right. He
tells you that all the present misery and 'ruin is owing
to over-speculation, to over-trading, to railways, and
to everything but what is the just and real cause.
Mr. Taylor, who understands the question better than
most men, who has laboured and written in the cause,
and to whom I am myself much indebted for the con-
firmation of those opinions which I had formed before
I knew him, has pointed out to you two passages in
Sir Charles Wood's speeches, in which he stated, not
long ago, that we were in a wholesome state of trade.
But nosy, because the gold is gone, and bank-notes
have gone in the same proportion, because if gold
goes the circulation must become contracted in the
same proportion, he tells you that there is something
rotten now—that railways and over-speculation
have killed you, and that what was good then
is now altogether wrong. I fear, gentlemen,
that I trespass on your time, but I tell you
that I have scarcely entered on the subject, much less
exhausted it. It is a most complicated one, and on it
the happiness of our fellow• creatures and the future
prosperity and welfare of the nation depend. I tell
you freely and honestly that the crown on the
Queen's head is not safe unless the Ministers take on
themselves the investigation of the subject. I know
that this is bold language, and I dare say it will be
reprobated, but at least it is honest language, and
formed on the conviction of my own mind. It is an
opinion formed on no basis arising from my profes.
sion—that of a banker. I tell you, and you know it,
that my prosperity depends on yours, and I am there-
fore likely to form a good and sound judgment as to
what will lead to your prosperity. I will tell the
proudest Minister, surrounded by his head men of
office—men of the highest classes, not men sup-
ported by commerce and manufactures—although I
do not wish to say that men of high families
should be proscribed from taking office—that they
are not the most likely parties to detect evil ; I will
tell them to follow the example of William Pitt,
who sought for information from the manufac-
turing classes, and who turned round to a depu-
tation, and said, when they stated the evils that ex-
isted, and applied for a remedy, " If Parliament loses
the power to relieve distress where distress exists,
and to remedy evils where recognised and acknow-
ledged, it loses the only function for which it was
created, and the only use we can derive from it."
Sir, I thank you and my fellow-townsmen for the
patient hearing you have given me, and I believe it
wants nothing but that yours and other great meet-
ings should declare that they want inquiry to obtain
inquiry. It is possible for a great nation so to adjust
all the different proportions between debtor and
creditor, and so to arrange a circulating medium, as
to carry out all our great commercial transactions, to
act with justice to all parties, and to restore peace,
happiness, and prosperity--to act towards the labour-
ing classes, who are the very foundation and strength
of the nation, so as to place them in a position where
every man who is willing to work shall command
work, and that he shall not be compelled to ask as a
favour to be permitted to use the labour of his sinews
in order to obtain a morsel of bread.

The resolutions being carried, and a rote of thanks
been passed to the Chairman, the meeting broke up.

PRINTERS' PENSION SOCIETY.—Last night a meet-
ng of this society was held at the London Tavern,
Bishopsgate-street; Mr. J. C. Bloomfield in the chair.
The Secretary (Mr. Hodson) stated that since the last
meeting no less than ten of the pensioners had died
during the year, being a larger number than ever oc-
curred in any previous year; the next election of pen•
sioners would take place in March, and several of the
applicants had already been admitted as candidates;
the number of pensioners at present on the books of the
society was only 43, the average number being 50.
Since the formation of the society in 1827, no less than
130 persons had received the benefits of the society,
which was to afford permanent relief to aged and infirm
printers and their widows, by the ;ranting of pensions
of 121. 12s. to the men, and 81. Bs. to the widows. The
subscriptions and donations were very favourable, and
although the capital stock of the society amounted to
5,0001., the committee strongly urged upon the sub-
scribers the necessity for further exertions in aid of the
funds of the society. The trip to Brighton, and the pro-
duce of the benefit at Vauxhall were also productive,
but not to the extent desired. The general business
having been gone through, a vote of thanks was passed
to the chairman, and the meeting broke up.
THE MAILS.--.-SOUTHAMPTON, OCT. s.—The Ori-
ental Company's steam-ship Jupiter, Captain Meehan,
from Gibraltar, arrived here this day at 12 30, and landed
the Peninsular and Mediterranean mails, under care of
Lieutenant Wilkinson, which were forwarded to London
by the one o'clock express train. She left Gibraltar
Sept. 26, Cadiz 27, Lisbon 29, Oporto 30, and Vigo Oct.
1. She has brought home 15 passengers, and a cargo
consisting of specie, grapes, lemons, eggs, leeches, hams,
melons, and twelve head of bullocks. Intelligence from
the ports.—Gibraltar—Her Britannic Majesty's steamer
Virago, a French brig of war. At 9 a.m. arrived the
Peninsular and Oriental Company's steam-ship Hindos -
tan, and left at 3 p.m. for Malta, &c. The Peninsular
and Oriental Company's steam packet Paella arrived
Sept. 22. At Cadiz—The Spanish frigates Isabella II ,
Villa de Bilboa, and a steamer ; a French steamer and
English yacht, Stormfinch. At Lisbon—St. Vincent,
Queen, Caledonia, Canopus, and Vengeance; steamers—
Sidon, Odin, Dragon, Avenger, and Jackal ; a French
frigate and two steamers ; a Spanish frigate and one
steamer, and the usual Portuguese squadron. In the
Douro, Sept. 30.—Her Majesty's steamer Polyphemus,
and French brig Meleagre. The Jupiter had light winds
and fine weather most part of her voyage.
The Observer of Sunday last gave six folio columns
of monetary matters, commercial failures, and railway
intelligence. The articles chiefly orh;inal, and matchless
tor their accuracy. Price of the Observer (40 columns),
6d. There is scarcely a club-house, institution, library,
or news-room in all England, Scotland, Ireland, the Con-
tinent, East and West Indies, America, &c., in which the
Observer is not taken in, and frequently duplicate copies.
The extensive publication of the Observer commences at
six, and concludes at ten on Sunday morning. A Mon-
day edition of the Observer, best adapted for the country
and abroad, is regularly published at four o'clock on
Monday afternoon.
GREAT NORTHERN RAILWAY.---We understand
that it is the intention of the board of directors to renew
their application to Parliament, in the ensuing session,
for the promotion of the Isle of Axholme extension
line, embracing Wakefield and Leeds, in connexion with
the Great Northern Railway.—Doncaster Gazette.
Lord Brougham, who has been entertaining a select
circle at Brougham Hall, Westmoreland, is expected to
arrive in Grafton-street at the close of the ensuing week,
en route to his Lordship's chateau at Cannes, in the
south of France, where the Noble and Learned Baron
intends to pass the winter,

LAW INTELLIGENCE.
ARCHES' COURT, Oct. 5.

BROOKS V. CRESSWELL.-THE OFFICE OF THE JUDGE

PROMOTED.

Dr. BURNABY sat for the Learned Judge, to dispose
of an application for relaxing the suspension upon the
Rev. H. Cresswell, vicar of Creech St. Michael, So-
merset. The rev. gentleman had been proceeded
against in March, 1846, and for certain immoralities
was suspended from office and emolument for the term
of eighteen months, a certificate of good behaviour
being required at the end of that time.
Dr. ROBERTSON made application for the relaxation.
The PROCTOR for the promoter in the suit objected
that the costs had not been paid, the promoter having
died in the meantime, as several ineffectual attempts
had been made to serve the rev, gentleman with the
monition.

Dr. BURNABT said he should take time to consider
the case.

PREROGATIVE COURT, Oct. 5.
No case of interest came on to-day.

POLICE INTELLIGENCE.
MA A SION-HOUSE.
Mrs. Harriet Vernon, the wife of a licensed vie-
' tualler, in Northumberland-alley, Fenchurch-street,
was summoned by Mr. Harvard, City inspector of the
weights and measures, for having refused to give him
access to the bar of her house.
Turner, Mr. Harvard's assistant, stated that Mr.
Harvard, seeing some measures in the bar, desired to
examine them, and to be let into the bar for that pur-
pose. The defendant said she would hand the mea-
sures up to him, but she would not allow him to go
inside, and she persisted in refusing to admit him,
thus presenting a complete impediment to the per-
formance of the inspector's duty.
Mr. Harvard said he had found it necessary to go
into the bars of a great number of the trade, as they
were in the habit of hiding the small measures they
used under the counter. He here produced several
small measures, which were, he said, a third smaller
than the standard, and had been found hidden in the
bars of other houses.
Mrs. Vernon said she did not consider that the in-
spector had any right to enter the bar, which she
thought ought to be kept strictly private, on account,
not of the short measures, but the property contained
in it She submitted that it was quite enough if she
handed to him all the measures he wished to examine.
The LORD MAYOR read the clause of the Act,
which inflicts a penalty not exceeding 51. upon any
person who offers an impediment to the inspector's
performance of his duty. It was evident to him that
the defendant had acted in ignorance of the law ; and
therefore, to induce her to keep so salutary a statute
alive in her mind, he should inflict upon her the very
much reduced fine of 10s. and costs. His Lordship
hoped that all the licensed victuallers of the City of
London would profit by that example.
MARLBOROUGH-STREET.
DECISION UNDER THE PAWNBROKERS' ACT.—
Edwin Howell, agent, was brought up for final exa-
mination, charged with having pawned a large quan-
tity of stays intrusted to him to dispose of by a Ger-
man manufacturer named Vlies.
The case stood over for the magistrate's decision on
this point. The prisoner, it appeared, had been en-
gaged by Mr. V lies in the capacity of agent for the
disposal of the stays. Being in want of money, Mr.
Vliea applied to the prisoner for 201. The prisoner
deposited upwards of 200 pairs of the stays with a
pawnbroker as security for the loan of 20/., on condi-
tion that the stays should be forfeited if the money
was not repaid by a specified time. This pawning
took place without the consent or knowledge of Mr.
Vlies. The money was not repaid in time, and the
consequence was that the stays became forfeited, and
the pawnbroker disposed of them to various shops.
The transaction having come to the knowledge of
Mr. Vlies, the prisoner was ultimately given into
custody on a charge of having illegally pawned the
property.
After the professional gentlemen for and against
the accused had argued the question at considerable
length,
Mr. HARDWICK decided that the case did not come
within the meaning of the Act, inasmuch as the ac-
cused had not converted the money obtained by the
pawning of the stays to his own use, but had given
the sum to the proprietor of the stays
The accused was accordingly discharged.
ArrxwATiox.—John Booth, of Wellington Stone
Wharf, Regent Wharf, was summoned by Ann
M'Donald, for refusing to maintain her illegitimate
child.

The mother of the child, a hard-featured char-
woman, apparently fifty years of age, said the de-
fendant was the father of her infant; he had given
her 2/. towards its support.
The defendant did not attempt to deny the charge.
Mr. HARDWICK ordered him to pay 2s. 6d. a week.
The defendant's wife, a well-dressed, lady-like
woman, wished to know whether she could not send
the money to the complainant, instead of allowing the
complainant to call on her husband for it?
The husband, who looked rather sheepish at his
position, promised to arrange everything satisfactorily
outside of the court.
PAUPER IMPOSITIONB.—Ann Flynn was charged
with having defrauded the parish authorities of St.
James's, by means of fraudulent representations.
The prisoner had applied for relief to the parish
officers, for herself and two children. The parish
messenger was sent, and was shown two children,
which the prisoner said were her children. She re-
ceived relief accordingly, but Mr. Dore, the relieving
overseer, having received intimation that the prisoner
had borrowed one of the children for the purpose of
imposing on the parish, caused her to be taken into
custody.
The case having been clearly proved,
Mr. HARDWICK. committed her for 14 days to hard
labour.

Mr. Dore said he had no doubt that this example
would have a satisfactory effect, for he had good
reason to believe that the offence was by no means of
rare occurrence.