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London, England, 1823-03-06 00:00:00

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institution spoken of in :he county of Kildare, the Hon. Bart.
had completely misrepresented. Ile knew of the Jesuit's insti.
tution there ; but he knew of a most excellent school under the.
superintendence of Dr. Kenny, a leerned Divine, 'and very
superior classical scholar. Ile admitted that Dr. Kenny had
had an education abroad which fitted him to be a Jesuit; but
whether he was one or not he did not know, nor did it signifte
He had established a school in Kildare, and had employed
learned gentlemen under him to take care of it. But so far
from doctrines dangerous to the peace of the kingdom beingdie-
seminated there, the House would scarcely believe that latterly
some of the scholars from that school had entered the Protestant
Institution of Dublin, called Trinity College, and obtained their
high honours. The conduct of the school was open to public
inspection, and he believed at the last public examination the
Duke of Leinster, and his brother in that House, as well as
many other distinguished characters, had attended. So much
good has this Establishment done, that lie understood visible
improvement had taken place in the neighbourhood, to the
increased comfort and advantage in every respect of the per-
sons living in every direction round about it—and this was a
part of the country formerly noted for outrages. And yet this
was what had been accused with all that was bad in that House
and elsewhere. For his part, he hoped it would be extenged
widely throughout Ireland. This was a subject connected with
a question coming on that night of great importance to Ireland,
and lie hoped the House -would see to what extent indulgence
must be given to the Catholics of Ireland, when it was found
possible to deceive Hon. Members so respectable as the Hon.
Members for Armagh and Semersetshire, to come forward and
advocate what was decidedly false.—(Hear, hear !)—He re-
peated that it was false ; and when the House saw that it went
to calumniate five millions and a half of the inhabitants of that
country, they would know bow much the Catholics were enti-
tled to their protection. He told that House that they would
be guilty of much injustice if they hurried on to that momen-
tous question relative to the Catholics of Ireland, with all their
Protestant prejudice and British ignorance on their heads.—
(Cheers reiterated by both parties.)—He said this with every
feeling of respect for the House ; and lie repeated that there was
in that House much ignorance on the subject of the claims, and
situation of the Catholics of Ireland.—(hear, hear !)--And lie
said that it behoved the House most particularly to consider
this, when they saw two Honourable and respectable Members
made the unwilling, and he said it respectfully; the ignorant
instruments to gull and blind the House.—(Hear, hear !)
There were persons so mad in Ireland that they would conic to
that Bar, and offer to prove any thing. lie knew there were
some respectable Protestants there who really thought that no
good could conic till the five millions and a half of Catholics
were destroyed. He was glad this discussion had arisen, since
he felt it to be his duty to rivet the attention of the, House to
those petitions which had lately been presented. The people of
Ireland were not to be trusted against each other. They were
So distracted amongst themselves, that they were incapable of
judging. That must he left to the house of Commons; but
then the House must be more enlightened on the subject.—
(Hear, hear!)
Mr. WILMOT did not rise to prolong the discussion, but to
call the attention of the House to the terms of the Petition upon
which it had arisen, and to shew that it was the most irrele-
vant that could be conceived, to the matter of that Petition.—
(Hear, hear !)—The subject matter of the Petition was, that
Mr. iarker was an emigrant to the Cape of Good Hope, where
he was so unfortunate as to meet with losses in his specula-
tion. These losses, however, the Petitioner went on to attri-
bute to Colonel Bird's being a Jesuit. He never thought of
attributing his misfortunes to the natural causes of rusting in
the wheat, and others proceeding from the climate. Then this
Gentleman went on very jesuitically to connect the subject of
his losses with the establishment at Stoneyhurst. Nothing, in
fact, could be less connected than the subject of the Petition,
which was one of private grievance, and the discussion into
which the Hon. Baronet had led the House. He was surprised,
that when the Hon. Baronet had given notice of this Petition,
and therefore had had at least twenty-four hours to consider it
he should not have been able to make out a better chain of Con-
s nexi9n. • If the Hon. Baronet would present a Petition. which
Confined itself to the matter of grievance, he assured him he
would be ready to give the House some information to form a
judgment upon it. And he assured the Hon. Baronet, that so
voluminous and prolix were the statements sent in to the Co-
lonial Office by this Gentleman, that if he were to give them
to the Hon. Baronet, they would occupy him twenty-four hours
longer before he could make any thing of them. And when
he told the House that in almost every one of them the failure
of the harvest was attributed to Colonel Bird being a Jesuit;
they would excuse him for not having answered every one of
his communications. Ile must again express his surprise at
the Hon. Baronet's having sanctioned the petition he had
brought forward. If the Baronet agreed with the petitioner,
that Jesuitry could have the effect of spoiling the harvest, and
doing that which others thought to he beyond all human con-
troul, lie could only say that he must infer that the Hon. Baro-
net's opinion on the subject of Agricultural Distress was no
longer what it used to be.—(Hear and laughter.)
Sir. HOBHOUSE rose to tell the Hon. Baronet why he
had laughed. It was because lie had gone on to attribute every
evil known to afflict Ireland, even, he believed, to the failure
of the potatoe crop, to the Jesuits. "Without meaning personal
disrespect, he could not help smiling at the proposal for us to
imitate the example of his Tartarian Majesty, who expelled
the Jesuits from his dominions. He should be glad to see this
petitioner come to the Bar of the House and bring a Jesuit in
his hand. He should like to see such a thing as a Jesuit, for'
he had travelled far, and confessed he had never had the good
fortune to fall in withi one. Ile should like to see one at the
Bar, that the House might know what sort of an animal it was
the Government of this country had to contend against. (Hear !)
Mr. HUME thought that Mr. Parker had a fair charge
against the Colonial Government, but admitted that he had
not stated the grounds of it in this Petition. He wished the
Hon. Member for Armagh would state, in his place, where the
institutions of' Jesuits were founded in Ireland. He had been
informed that there was no such thing, although he (Mr.
Hume) should have no objection to their being spread all over
the country.
Mr. BROWNLOW said, that the Petitions he had lately
presented came from a number of most respectable individuals
in the county of Armagh, linen-drapers, and others, who were
firmly persuaded of the existence of Jesuit Societies in Ireland.
Since making that communication in the House, he had re-
ceived many letters from different parts of Ireland thanking
lion for having done so, and confirming the truth of the state-
ment. These persons all asserted that one Jesuit institution
was in the county of Kildare, and he (Mr. Brownlow) had no
doubt it was so.
Mr. MAURICE FITZGERALD admitted the irrelevancy
of the discussion into which the House had been led. He, how-
ever, would take the liberty of extending it so far as to remind
the House of a letter of Lord Sidmonth some time back, in
which it was stated to be an insuperable objection on the part
of' the Prince Regent and the Government to the establish-
ment of Jesuit Societies in Ireland. It appeared that the
Pope had given for answer to Cardinal Gonsalvi, that he
would not authorise the restoration of the Order on that plea ;
and it was therefore plain that if they did exist, it was con-
trary to the injunction of the. Pope against the law of the realm,
and therefore they might by law be put down.
Sir 11. PARNELLIdid not think that the Society of Jesuits
did exist in this country or in Ireland. As to the mansion
stated to have been bought by Dr. Murray, near Dublin, it
was for the purpose of extending schools all over Ireland, from
which the poor derived the greatest benefit.
The Petition was then brought up and read.
Sir T. LETHBRIDGE, in moving that the Petition be
laid on the table, took occasion to say, for the 'benefit of the
Colonial Secretary opposite (Mr. Wilmot), that he was no mitre
to be told how he was to employ his time in the morning, than
how lie was to give his vote in the evening. He must say, in
opposition to the Hon. Secretary, that he never saw a clearer
chain of connection than between die averments of the Petition,
and what he had said.
The Petition was then ordered to he printed.
ORANGE INSTITUTIONS.

Mr. ABERCROMBY stated the motion which he was
about to submit to the House was not calculated to interfere
in any way with that of which notice had been given by the
Honourable Member for Armagh. That Honourable Gen-
tleman proposed to raise a question on the conduct of the
King's Attorney-General in Ireland. It was not intended
to deny that the law warranted the course which had been
pursued, but the discretion exercised by the Attorney-General
' ould be called in question in a particular case, where an
ex-officio information had been filed by the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman. He stated thus much, to shew that the motion of the
Hon. Gentleman (the Member for Armagh) was very different
from that now to be submitted to the consideration of the
House. The motion of the Hon. Member for Armagh was of
a limited and temporary character, beginning and ending with

PRICE SEVEN IlttiC,rer

the particular circumstances to which it referred. 'The present
one was of a general nature and durable character, and re,
lated to that situation of things which must endure so long u
Orange Clubs or any other associations, founded on -exclusive
.principles, continued td exist. To him (Mr. Abercromby),
therefore, the present motion did not seem at all to interfere
with that of the Honourable Member for Armagh; and he
had been surprised on a former night, when he waserequested
to postpone it in consideration of the notice which had, been
given. He was unprepared. for the appeal which hadebeen
made, but, acting in his reason at the moment, he. had re•
fused to put it off. and subsequent reflection had served but
to convince him, that in coining to that determination, he
was'eight. In order to avoid all misapprehension, he begged
to state that it was not his intention to allude to the merit
or demerit of Lord Wellesley's Government, and it was not
his purpose to bring forward any thing that would at. all
connect itself with the Catholic Question. The motion
with which he should conclude, was one which he considered
entitled to the vote of those who were unwilling to concede
the Claims of the Catholics, and also those who were most
anxious for the removal of the disabilities of which that im-
portant body complained. It had been said that this motion
would be likely to cause great heat and much agitation. He did
not expect this would be the case generally, though such might
be the ease in particular quarters where persons were acting ult. .
lei what he called the Orange System. The subject watt one
which appeared to him most fitting to be brought under the con-
sideration of Parliament. If the Orange institutions could be
maintained on the ground that they were necessary to the peace
and geed order of Ireland, then let truth prevail, and let their
friends fairly, openly, and manfully defend them. If, on the
contrary, it should be proved that they tended to irritate the
people of Ireland, and were subversive of peace and good order,
then also let the truth prevail, and let these Associations be put
down. The present motion, he would not conceal from the
House, was one in which the Catholics of Ireland were much
interested, but, in his opinion, it was not less important to the
Protestants. Though anxious for the ,well being of both par-
ties, he preferred the Constitution to the separate interests of
either Catholic or Protestant, and it was in the hope of being
enabled to secure to the people of Ireland the blessings of an
undivided 'Constitution, that he was encouraged to come for-
ward on the present occasion. It was not his purpose to
impute motives to any individual, or to any body of men,
acting under the Orange system. What he wished to attack
was the system itself. That system, he maintained, was uncon-
stitutional—in many respects illegal, and had been productive
of the most serious evils. He considered it a great misfortune
for Ireland that ever this system had been introduced at all,
.and he wished to prove that it was against the interests of all
parties, and totally subversive of the legitimate controul of
good Government. To trace the evil to its origin he must upon
that portion of history which commenced 'with the recal of'
Earl Fitzwilliam from Ireland in 1795, and was completed by
the Act of Union between England and Ireland. No ratan
could turn back to that period without regret, who took into
his consideration the consequences of that recal. He beg-
ged not to be supposed to speak now as to the merits
or demerits of the recal. He would only say that the
appointment of Earl Fitzwilliam, and his recal, exhibit-
ed a strong and convincing proof that the worst policy with
respect to the Government of Ireland was a vacillating and in-
decisive course. Considerable hopes and fears had been ex-
cited by the appointment of Lord Fitzwilliam. The fears of
those who expected to lose their power in consequence of his
appointment, ultimately procured his recal, while those who
had hoped advantage from his administration, were plunged in
the deepest disappointment by that event. He feared it wall
too true that those who had prevailed at that period, marked
their triumph by the increased severity of their rule. Never had
any thing more disgraceful or more atrocious occurred than
what had taken place in the county of Armagh. The county
was divided between two parties, the one called the Catholics,
the other the " Peep of Day Boys." The Peep of Day Boys
had the ascendancy, as they greatly surpassed their opponents
in numbers, and a war of the most atrocious character was car-
ried on against the Catholics. In the proceedings which then
took place, the Peep of Day Boys were judges, prosecutors,
witnesses, jurors, and executioners. In this way ft was that the
war between the parties was prosecuted. The unhappy Catho-
lics were finally expelled and driven away with their fami-
lies from the county. It might be thought that he overstated
the case, but to prove that he did not, he would read to the
House what had been said by Lord Gosford at a meeting of the
Magistrates in the month of Nov. 1795. One of the Resolutions
proposed at that meeting declared the county of A rmagheo be at
present in a state of disorder, and represented the Roman Catho-
lics to be constantly exposed to nightly attack from lawless and
unknown pelefens. It was on this resolution that Lord Gosford
made that speech from which he would now read a passage.—
[The Learned Gentleman read a part of the speech which he had
Mentioned, which described the, secret persecutions and the
ferocious cruelty which pursued the Catholics. Nor age (it
went on), nor sex, nor acknowledged innocence, could afford
security. The only crime charged Was one which was easily
proved, that the perties professed the Roman Catholic faith,
or were intimate with .persons of that persuasion. The most
lawless proceedings had followed, amounting to nothing less
than a confiscation of property, and the proscriptions of that
day had exceeded, in regard to the number ruined, every ex_
ample which ancient and modern history could supply.l—ln
December 1795 (the Learned Gentleman continued) a battle
was fought between the Peep of Day Boys and the Roman
Catholics, in which the Peep of Day Boys were victorious, and
it was shortly after that event that the first Orange Lodge
was opened.---(llear, hear !) He wished to direct the attenticii
of the House to the origin of this association, because that
would justify him in saying that a great and fatal error had
been committed I:.y those who had assumed that particular
name, as the effect of it was to perpetuate associations which,
while they were retained' in the mind, could not but tend to
disturb the general tranquillity, and made it almost impossible
to hope for that harmony and good-will which every friend to
the country must desire to see established. Immediately
after the name to which he objected had been assumed
in. December, 1795, this association had shown itself anxious to
extend its influence in every possible way, and had became
connected with very important transactions. To shew the
House what had been the professed object of the Orange Clubs,
he would direct their attention to two sets of their resolutions
embodying their constitution in 1800 and in 1820. The gene-
ral nature of this institution might be described in few words.
It consisted of a large number of persons, having a Master,
Grand Master, Treasurer, Secretary, and Committee. There
were various orders and numerous meetings in different parts
of the country, but the most important of all was the Grand
Lodge.in Dublin. He read a list of the names subscribed to
the papers which lie had mentioned, and stated a Committee to
have been appointed to inquire into the state of the Association,
in order to correct abuses which had crept in, and to make it
more useful, pure, and meritorious than it had been. From the
language held by this Committee, the House would gain some
idea of the nature of the abuses which had occurred. It was
stated that forms of initiation had been adopted in various
Lodges which departed from the simplicity of the originatne-
sign, aid which were repugnant to common sense, to the reli-
gious feelings of many worthy brethren of the Order, and even
to common decency. The Committee, therefore, prepared a form
of admission, which combined With proper brevity sufficient
solemnity to bind the Member to those doctrines which it
was his duty to maintain as a loyal Protestant. Here, then,
they had it on the authority of an Orange Committee, that
some of the forms which had been in use amongst them were
repugnant to common sense, to the religious feelings cf
worthy men, and even to common decency. He proceeded
to shew that the Committee had thought it necessary to
check the over zeal of some indiscreet Members; and he
then read to the House the declaration of their Resolu-
tion to reverence the memory of King William, the Con-
stitution established by him, anti the succession of the pre-
sent Royal Family to the Throne. They resolved annually to
celebrate the defeat of King James in the Battle of the Boyne,
and the anniversary of that event (the Ist of July, old sqle,)
was to he always their grand era. In the Resolutions of 1800,
a declaration of some importance was found which had' been
omitted in 1820. The declaration to which he referred set forth
a determination never to persecute any one on account otreli-
gious differences, provided the parties were not hostile to the
State ; but, on the contrary, to protect their fellow-subjects
who might be of a different persuasion from themselves. He
proceeded to describe the oaths of the Orange Clubs. - The first
oath a member was obliged to take ran thus :—" I, A. 8., so_
lemnly swear allegiance to King George the Fourth, arta' will
to the utmost of my oWer maintain the British Constitution
azia.the•suceession of'hif Majesty's House, being Protestants,
to the Throne." He shewed that the words Protestant ascen-
dancy had a different meaning in Ireland from that which
attached to them in this country. In the year 1782, the same
party, who were now distinguished by their zeal for Protestant

eiseetaidancy, were railed the " rriendi of English interest."—,
vvnen Ireland, by her ante to gain independe.p.cee had eman-
r 'rented herself from the thraldom of which she'hati previously
somnlair-ed, the distinction which he had mentioned was no
eiengerepreserved. The friends to the Protestant asicendency-
mere-Wed, and it was the same party which now called itself
-ehe. Orange Association. Ile was far from -objecting to the
wells " being Protestant," in the oath which he had quoted.
Be was friendly to them in themselves, as he associated with
Meru the idea of every thing that was good and beneficial to
are country, the establishnient of the present Royal Family,
and the assertion of English liberty. The oath to he taken
ay the Member of the Orange Association went on to de-
*tare. that the individual had never belonged to the society
of United Irishmen ; had never been bound to any Society
by oaths of secrecy. It bound the party .to be faithful
to
wTI Orangetnen in all just actions, and made the initiated no-
'timely swear, in the presence of Almighty' OW, never to re-
weal part or parts of what wax about to be privately corneae-
Owed th hint, to any one, without strict trial being made,
.setieli proof obtained of his being a brother Orangeman ; and
'farther, that he would not write, print, or stamp, or cause to
he written, printed, or stamped, any , part or parts of such
communication, nor in any other way disclose it, so help him
tied, and keep him steadfast in this his oath. When the
members were sworn thus never to reveal what was communi-
.. eeited, it WO no uncharitable construction to suppoic that this
eelfeconetituted Society making such an oath, supposed that
. 'there was something connected with the institution which it
. was Most essential to conceal. Such a society ought to be
,Nviswed with great suspicion in the preeent situation of Ire-
land. The state of that country being remembered did not
the proceedings, of that Society. demand their serieus atten-
'lion, which, from the manner in which its members were
legistered, could at any time and place bring forty, fifty„
dt sixty thousand men together. Ile described more minutely
the regulation of the Orange Lodges. The system of the
paciety, the oaths of secrecy administered, anti its general
tegulatinne, would justify them in looking with the great-
est jealousy at its intentions. Very. soon utter its eta-
bliehment, the Association had distinguished itself by adopt-
. Inc a most important tone, a tone equal to that of the Go.
yin-muerte It had subsequently coneiderecl it necessary, in
t'oasequenee of the notice taken of it, to disclaim the prin-
. tildes which had been imputed to it,' and to declare before
Almighty God that it was not their object to persecute per.
eons who differed from them in matters of religion.—(Hear,
Gear i)—He thought it but justice to the Association to state
this, but at the same time he had more reasons than one for
skiing so. He particularly wished it to he noticed, that so long
ago as in the year 1797, it had been obliged to defend itself
egninst the imputation of acting on principles which were
opposed to the interests of the country, and thee they were
bound together by oaths that would make human nature shud-
der. Ile mentioned this to chew that the name of an Orange.
span must for ever be associated in the minds of the people
or Ireland, with outrage and bloodshed. 'This had been felt
when that vindication to which he alluded Was considered ne-
cessary. He found in one of the papers, Wiped by the Asso-
dation, that its Members set forth, it wee it their Judgment
high time to rally round the throne, and support their good
. "King against all his enemies, whether those enemies were
rebels to God or their country. He wished to know who had
given this body authority to determine when a man was in a
state of rebellion against God ? Who was to be consider.
eel ? Suppose the ease of an Atheist, who acknowledged no
Deity. lie could not be called a rebel, because he butt de.
• flied the power of a Being whom lie did not believe to ex-
it. It was, therefore difficult to define what was meant by
the language which 'he had quoted; but he, thought that
extreme danger was to be apprehended from an Association
of this description. Having spoken thus much in explana-
tion of the constitution of the Orange Clubs, he proceeded to
the consideration of the consequences which had resulted
from them to Ireland, and of the effects which might yet be
expected. Abort one-fifth of the population of Ireland con-
sisted of Protestants; a large proportion of the inhabitants
we Roman Catholics; so that when the Irish people were
spoken of generally, they must be described as a Catholic
people. The Protestants enjoyed an almost exclusive mono.
poly of' nearly all the offices of the _State, many of which they
filled in the most meritorious manner. The Catholics had no
Church Establishment of their
,own ; their priests were de-
• pendent for support on the casual bounty of their followers ;
and above'all, there was a total abience or that link to connect
.the higher and the lower classes, the most important link in
-the chain of society, and wealthy Independent middle class of
Men. When the population of a country was divided like
that of Ireland, by religious diffetenceel—front the moment
the Government abandoned the, systeM of ruling by an un-,
mixed despotism—from the moment the principles of liberty
began to be understood, and a free press had furnished the
means for 'ditlinting knowledge, from that moment a state of
things arose, which it required dip greatest wisdom and the
greatest temper to control and direct. It was especially
neeessery to guard against private piques, and it therefore
behoved the higher classes to set an example of moderation and
feebearance. Ile disapproved of the Orange ,institutions,, be-
critic they were occlusive in their character., A man known
to, be of good moral character, and moat ardently and sincerely
attached to the interests of • hies country, was excluded from. this
Soeietv, if it were formed for any good, purpose, because lie was
net a t'rotestant. The rules of the aeseciation provided,. that
e eery. year there should be a celebration of the victory obtained
by King William over King James at the Boyne. Now, if
this celebration took place in a country where the inhabitants
were wholly Protestants, there could. be no objection to it.—
But when they reflected that such a celebration must not only
, mail the triumph of those who were the ,minority in Ireland,
lout also the humiliation of those who formed the majority, the
tierect must be injurious from the irritation thus constantly kept
iiNve. These celebrations, he contended, ware most fatal to the
peace of Ireland ; and they had been known but too frequently
to terminate in bloodshed. The Protestant who desired to he die-
urge ished for his loyalty, ought to endeavour by his conduct and
otample to make others contented and loyal. Bat did the Orange
Aseociation do thin? Were the Catholics of Ireland likely to be
made more loyal by the annual processions, in coeinieinorathin
ies'ehe defeat of King James at the Boyne? Could this beef-feeted by reminding them that that day had witnessed the triumph
. . of the Prlneltants, anti the Inimiliation of the Catholics, the proof
417 which was to be found in the nume of the family now on
t'ect throne ? Was this the way, to secure their loyalty. If
i. went forth that a large body of Protestants, say from
.0113 hundred and fifty to two hundred thousand men, were
terenectid by-oaths of secrecy, he should be glad to know why
a ~site number.of Catholic% might not be connected in die same
"if. Was it to be simmered, because the former _were loyal,
arid the latter dieloyel ? 14e thought the House would be slow
to make a distinction so frightful and appaling. If none but
1 Pt 0 !limbers of the Protestant Church, separatieg front it the
isPresbyteriens and Unitarians,
l were to be deemed well affected
to 'he Government, within wlat narrow- limits weeld they com-
peer.* the loyalty of the country ? Another suleieet wee worthy
rot ternerk, he alluded to the Yeomanry of Ireland. The
larger pnrtion of time keomanry were Orangemen. If un-
the 'Yeomanry should be called in • to aid the
€l,iyil Power, what might not be epprehended from the party
f;vliitig known to exist? He would put the case of a Ca-
tholie brought to trial, the Magistrate, the Kterilf, the Pan.
re:d., end the Judge being all the Orange Party. lie did not
eisy that they would forget their oaths, that the. Jury would
1!_ell the innocent guilty, or that the Judge would pass a se-
e Ter sentence ,than the offence proved might demand, but
lei would rick, Unfelt a circumstance would not lie must unfor-
tettate ? He would ask if it were not likely that the individual
might be ciensidered to suffer from party
.feeling, and if this
.Would not detract materially from the weight and authority
which ought to belong to the administration of the law. The
-Sieeittie would recollect a discussion which, took place in the
per t 413, on the introduction of Orange Clubs into this coun-
try. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite lied then diem).
peeved of them, but considered diem too insignificant to make
it net:fee:wry to put them down, as by treating them with con-
eeetipt they would fall of themselves. If such were Ids opinion
of grime Clubs in England, . on what termini% could
le fie. contended that they were beneficial to Ireland ? . Vote
whieniver way lie might on the present motion, lie could
reit but expect the benefit of the Right Hon. 0-endernen's
Avenge in the course of the debate ; as, with all his ingenuity,
lie did not think him capable of contending that that which was
teed for the one country, could be good for theenher. lie had
been told that, in consequence of the promulgation of hie
M sjesty's wish that a aymtern of general conciliation should be
acmol, plum in Ireland, at great increase in the numbers of the
Ovine Clubs had taken place. If this ware true, what did it
wieatt, hot that, numbers of persona had enrolled their name in
that association for the purpose of opposing the declared wish
.Or the King and hitt Parliament? It had been said in former
t4nA4i, and he believed, in some cans, it was nearly the truth,
that the land Lieutenant of Ireland meted not under the audio-
rill of the King, bat under the influence of the Orange Clubs
at Pablin.—(ll ear t)--If this were proved, the inference which
41/41'114 draw from it would be, that the jealous sentiment
hsd recalled Iterd Fitzwilliam, and removal that and-
aisle Nobleman, Lord Cornwallis, with every species of con-
tumely and reproach, was the compressed spirit of the Orange
Association. When Mr. Pitt proposed the Union in that [louse,
-the great advantage which he held out as likely to result from it
.was that it would secure to the country an impartial Legiela-
tore, standing aloof from all local and party connections. It
eyes Audi Legislntore that could alone redress the grievances
of which Ireland had at present to complain. Ile had hitherto
abet...tined front touching on one point—the question as to the
lxality of the uistitutioti, Whoever looked at whet passed in
ttle fifitli of the bite King, would find it difficult to exempt this
itsettitAltiOn from the operation. or Ast Act. But ou the OeCa.
sten 0, lite triel in Ireland a witness, who belonged to an

Orange Club, had been stated to be int'orable of giviag
evidence without violating the oath he had taken ; and
thus )dared between two oaths, he would be obliged in one
case or the other to commit perjury. The Learned Chief
.Justice of the King's Bench upon this, had remarked that no
proofbad been given that the witness had taken the -Oath Which
had been mentioned, and he trusted it wit' net so, for -if such
a practice obtained, and were to be respeeted, weld be
impossible to administer justice. Shonld an indivithrit come
into =Court in the situation which had been imagine his:Critne
would consist in holding himself bound,by n secret no& an un-
lawfull oath (for unlawful it certainly was), and it worild-he
his,duty to keep to the oath Which he had taken intotirt and
trample on the unlitrful obligation. Stich an opinion having -
ibeen delivered by It 'Learned Judge, it had been unpardon-
able negligence m him to have omitted bringing it before the
House. If, however, such, oaths were. Uritawfiil, how came it
to he discovered now for the first dine? They must have been
unlawful from the first, and yet no effort bad been made to
put down the association in which such oaths were admini-
stered. The motion which he wished to submit to the House
would propose an Address to the Crown, calling its attention
to a society founded on exclusive and unconstitutional prin.
ciples. He wished to assure the Crown, thatthat House would
zealously concur in any measure that mightbe brought for-
ward to enforce the laws of the country with respect to such
societies. This "was the proposition he intended to submit.
He thought it would be a great benefit to the Government, if
it wished to get rid of the Orange Club. They could not better
be dealt with in the first instance, than by such a declare-
don of the opinion of Parliament. God forbid ! that in sug-
gesting, this he should wish to propose any thing that should
he injurious to the Protestants of Ireland. NVithout their
support, no Government in Ireland could stand. lie, how-
ever, thought that which he proposed would be any thing
but injurious to them. He, therefore, wished the House to
express their disapprobation of the Orange system, and their
wish to see it put down, leaving the manner of carrying that
wish into effect with the Government. The restoration of
'tranquillity to Ireland which this measure would tend to ac-
complish would be advantageous for England, hut still more
so to the sister country. Nothing would benefit Ireland more
than a measure calculated to attract English capital to it. The
disorders which so frequently occurred, prevented this, as none
would go to Ireland, and few would remain there who could live
any where else. The number of absentees now so severely
felt would be diminished by the chaoge which he advocated ;
but it was impossible that a large proportion of the landed
property of Ireland should not always bean the hands of absen-
tees, while the country remained in its present state. His
purpose was that of removing the great obstacle to the tran-
quillity of Ireland, by the opinion of that House being de-
(dared. It was in vain to tell him that it was not in the power
of the Government to put down diese Orange Societies. When
he said, to put down, those were hard words ; but he meant,
that if the Governnient were united upon the subject--(Cheers)
—and cordially opposed to such societies, they would soon
Make Orangemen as good and obedient subjects as any other
set of men in the kingdom. If the Government decidedly, and
unanimously disapproved of these associations, they would not
be supported as they were, But. those who belonged to them
believed that they were approved by the Government; and that
to secede from them would cast an imputation upon their
loyalty. He entreated the House to consider that the Union
with Ireland--no doubt a measure most important and most
valuable—was a measure as yet, if he might so express him.
' self, upon its trial. It had been the act of the eiegislature
adopted twenty years agO,' upon speculative and theoretical
grounds. But if a party of separatists should grow up, and
such a party might appear where it, was least expected, the
measure must not then be tried upon Speculative and theoreti-
cal principles, but upon the arguments and reasons, which that
House could' advance as to its real and solid benefit. How
would they then be able to say, that the Union had improved
the condition of Irelanth when the great masa of its people were
exposed year after year. to these ,processions and taunts, which
continually kept up dissentions and disquiet in the country. It
was for these reasons that he intended to propose the following
Ad dresi to the house.--( Hear, hear, hear ! )
" That an humble Address be presented to his Majesty, hum-
bly to represent to his. Majesty, That his faithful Commons,
deeply deploring the existence of those dissentions by which
Ireland has been for so great a length of time agitated and
convulsed, and which; among other evils, have led to the for-
mation of Societies founded on exclusive and unconstitutional
principles, beg leave to assure his 3lajesty of their cordial and
zealous concurrence in all measures necessary for sustaining and
enforcing the Laws, for giving to the people the full benefits of
the Constitution, and for aiding his Majesty's paternal solici.
nude for the establisHment of concord' and union in Ireland,"

Mr. GOULBURN had never come down to the7rioeituS un-
der such anxiety as upon the present •occasion ;—not anxiety
arisising from any difficulty he felt in avowing the views which
he entertained upon the subject of the motion, but because when
he reflected upon the time at which the quextion was agitated,
and upon the irritation and dissension which had recently dis-
tracted Ireland, be feared that in the course of this debate; ex-
pressions and topics might be introducid, celculated to inflame
the minds of the people of' that country to such an extraordinary
degree, as it would be the duty of all prudent men, in Parlia-
ment or out of it, to use their best endeavours to avoid. Upon
this ground he felt infinite regret that the motion heel been
'brought forward at such a Moment. He had also another
reason to, regret it, in the manner in which it would affect him-
self, as a part of the Irish Government. it being so much to
he leered that sonic who Might take part in the debate would
introduce topics of a nature that it was most desirable and just
should be avoided ; he hoped that the lion. and Learned Gen-
tleman might have yielded to the suggestion made to him by
his Right Honourable Friend : leaving it to the House, when.
the subject came regularly before it, to decide 'what had been
the conduct of the Irish Governtheni with regard to those trans.
actions. He had, however the happineee of paying the tri.
Bute to the Honourable and Learned Gentleman, of saying
that he lied completely abstained from those topics in his
own speech ; and he hoped, he should not the taking too
much upon himself, when he implored other Honourable
Members to follow the example which had tlins been sete--( Hear,
hear )—and to do the Government the justice of not bringing its
conduct incidentally forward, when there would be an oppor-
tunity afforded hereafter of examining that conduct fully and,
completely. Although he could not concur in the Address pro-
posed, yet he had no diflieufty, with regard to much that had
fallen from the Hon. and learned Gentleman, in expressing
more or less of his concurrence. lie had no difficulty in avow-
ing, as the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had avowed, that ex-
clusive societies, under Whatever circumst.snces, or in what.
ever country they might exist, wore productive of immediate
inconvenience, and objects of jealousy and suspicion. It was
imposseible not to perceive, in the ordinary society of life, the
hardship and incoevenience of exclusions. It would invari-
ably be rotted. that the persons excluded regarded the exclu-
eioniets with feelings of hatred and revenge. If the observe»
Lion were carried into political life, they found the principle
in still stronger action. Ile would further add, that when
etchieion watt made upon the ground of religious differences-
'the feelings on 'both sides were exasperated and aggra-
vated. Therefore, he thought it capable of demonstration,.
that all exclusive Societies were inimical. to the peace and
union of the great body of the people. He should also
observe, that the objection Was considerably increased,
when the bond of that society consisted in a secret oath.
When he made this general acheiseion of the danger to
which he considered all secret end exclusive societies to lead,
he applied himself rather to the Address that had been moved,
than to the speech by which it had been introduced. The Ad-
dress alluded to all societies bound together by secret obliga.
'dens; but the speech of the Honourable and Learned Gentle-
man was confined to that single class, known by the name of
Orange Institutions. Feeling as lie did, the general objec-
tions which he had stated to all Secret Societies, he was
most anxious to draw a distinction betwixt these Societies
in panictilar, and those whose principles and conduct were
So wholly different. Some, of the secret societies in Ire,
land had for theie object the destruction of property, and the
overthrow of the Govertement,' while others were hound toge-
ther to !turmoil the law, and contribute to the maintenance of
tranquility and peace. the was anxions, therefOre .that the
House should keep in view the different principles which
might animate and guide the acts of these societies. He could
not forget, that although the Orange Institutions, for reasons
he had stettel, were Ruble to exceptions, yet they had been
at all times ready to come forward in the service of else country,
and that too in the manner which the constituted authorities
pointed out and directed. lie could not forget that in times
when Ireland had been torn by the ravages of faction and re.
'hellion, the persons enrolled in these Orange Institutions, and
others from whom the present Members were descended, had
received and 'deserved the thanks of the Irish Parliament, and
of "he country. He could not overlook thisgood conduct, or
confound them with the persens and principles from whom
they were so essentially distinct. He was quite aware that
where a breach of the law was committed, prefious conduct
would notetand between the offender and the visitation of the
law ; and if one of these Orangetnen, by taking a secret oath,
or in any other manner trensgresse'd the law, he was not the
individual to stand up and defend him. He always desired to
distinguish between the acts and the principles of such a so-
ciety. If any of its members placed himself without the
limits of the law, he- would not claiM his exemption from its
power; end if he did, he was sure he should not he supported
in it by the great body of the society, whose principles, whose
objects and profession were to support the law. The lion.
Gentleman, in tracing the progress of these Societies, had gone
back to times of dreadful agitation and misery for Ireland,--
His opinion was, that when the present Acts of Govern-
ment were mentioned, it was hest to avoid mixing them up with
times where therc-undoubtedly would be, found many acts of

cruelty to condemn, and many transactions to regret. The lion.
and Learned Gentleman had done the Orange Societies the
justicee to admit, that the'principles with which they set out,
went to support the saw ; and he was sure it was impossible to
see the stateinent of the Honourable and Learned.Gentlemai,
'as M their progressive conduct, and their constant anxiety to
set their opinions and intentions before the country, without
seeing that they were entitled to approbation. The Hon. and
Learned Gontleinan lyid said, with respect to the attempt to
introduce Societies into England, that England had dis-
couraged them; awl lie called upon a Right Hon. Friend of
hie (Mr. Gott'burn) to tAke the saute course, with regard to
the Irish Orange. Ledges, as he did towards those of, Englund.
Now he entirely concurred in that call. Ile thought that as
far as advice went, and it was by suck weapons alone that So-
cieties, finintled:upen such .principles, could be opposed, there
was no objection to us uki.. It was by sixth means only that
any good weld he effected, and not by pointing them out as
the objects of peculiar animadversion awl invective.• So Ise
as where they put themselves within the reach of the law, the
law should be enforced against them as against others ; but
when they observed it, it was-neither prudent nor expedient
to pursue them with a power beyond the law. Ile had said
that lie could not concur in the Address. He could not do so,
because no one could be so unacquainted with Parliamentary
tactics, as not to see that it implied a. neglect on the part of
the Government to do, what it was in its power to do for the
discountenancing and suppressing secret societies. The House
was not in the habit of addressing the Crown for the enforce-
ment of a law, except in cases where the law had been sus-
pended, or not properly executed. Conscious. as he was that
the Government always enforced the laws duly and impartially
to all persons, whether of one description or another, the Ad-
dress could not be justified. If the Honourable and Learned
Gentleman . had ;charged the Government with exempting an
Orangeman from a punishment to which he was by law sub-
mitted, and if he could state that a Catholic had suffered penal-
ties from which an Orangeman had been exempt, then he
would have made out a case tbr Parliamentary interference.
But if, in the 'absence of such complaint, the House sub-
scribed 'to the proposed Address, it would, in a Parliamen-
tary acceptation% imply blame where no cause for blame existed
or was charged. That the present Irish Government viewed
secret societies with great jealousy :. id distrust, its very
first Act fully
.proved. It was an Act directed against cer-
tain secret societies then in existence, and bound together'
by secret obligations, whi9-object was to overthrow ,all that
was sacred and established in Ireland. Although they had not
found it necessary to call for a renewal of that Act, yet the
subject had been brought before the Government on too many
occasions to allow them to overlook the necessity of an applica-
tion to Parliament for a power which they did not possess, of
putting an end to such societies. It' the Hon. Gentleman had
deferred his motion to a later period of the Session, or if he could
have been prepared to bring forward those of Government at
an earlier one, it would have been seen that, according to the
Lord Lieutenant's dispatch, it was proposed to assimilate the
law respecting Secret Societies in Ireland to that of England
as' it stood. The should call upon the Parliament to give
them the same law as that passed for England in the year J 799,
in order that it might he extended to Ireland. When in No.
vember last the Government found it necessary to bring some
perions to trial for the administering and taking of unlawful
oaths, they had found the law very ineffectual to the purpose,
and it would be found in due dine that the Lord Lieutenant
had applied to the Government and to the Parliament to
strengthen the law, awl give it a power equal to-its object.—
These laws would not reach the Societies which . had formed
the subject of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's speech, un.
less they put themselves within its operation. Under these cir-
cumstances he did not consider that Parliament was Culled on
to address the Crown, and he should therefore move the preei.;
ous qustion upon the motion, because it would censure the (40,
vernnient for not having enforced the law, and thereby attach
blame when it was not deserved.

Sir J. NEWPORT said, than lie had, year after year,
pressed this question upon the liouse, and enforced Ahe neces-
sity of putting down all hostile Corresponding and Secret So-
cieties, as the means of restoring tranquillity in Ireland. He
was sure it would be most satisfactory to the House to find that
a recommendation was to be made for the, extension of the Act
of 1799. It was in vain to say that Orange Societies were es-
tablished for good purposes.. If all Secret Societies were ilk-
gal, there should be no cloak allowed for any of them. The
mischief and the missry of Ireland had been, that the people
had always been divided. The system by which they had been
governed was founded on their divisions* That system was
now abjured, and he hoped that the Government would con-
tinue to abjure it in practice as well as in theory. The result
of this debate would , be hailed as a good omen for Ire-
land. The strengthening of these laws would teach Irishmen
to live together as brothers, and to unite in support of the laws
instead of associating to set them at deaance. lie trusted that
the Government would inculcate and enforce this principle--
that to receive the protection of the laws. all pasties, without
discrimination, must be obedient to them. Having so often
called the attention of the House on this subject, it was with the
greatest satisfaction that he now congratulated himself and his
country upon the approaching suppression of all Secret Societies.
Air. DM SON said, that haying strong opinions upon this
subject, and representing a counter in which those opinions
Were very generally entertained, he felt called upon to address
sonic observations to the Hon:amnion this question. Ile con-
curred in every word that had fallen from his Right lion.
Friend below -him (Mr. Goulburn). Ile was glad that the
l'ublic would now know both sides of this question, and be put
in possession of the merits and deMerits of Orange Societies,
anti of the principles on which they were founded, For some.
time past. the Irish Presshad teemed with misrepresentatiOn
andinvective. spinet Orangemen, and the English Press had
followed the example. Whenever any little petty disputes oc-
curred between a Protestant and a Catholic, it was immediately
magnified into one of those Orange outrages which were made
use of by demagogues to inflame the people of Ireland, and
which he had afterwards heard repeated by Members in that
House. There was no class of Protestants in Ireland but took
their share in this connnon stream of abuse. In short, it was the
plan to call all Protestants Orangenien. The Speaker himself,
the Members for Oxford, for b'oirierset, and for Kent, were
all designated ita Orangemen, and the term was intended as a
reproach.—(lleur, hear, hear 1) —He would resist this unfair.
Inese, and he denied the reproach. lie -would state to the
House how far he assented to the principles of the Orange In-
stitutions, anti he would put the House and the public in pos.
possession of what those principles were. Those principles were
little known ; for, when they were described by the Catholic
supporters, there was very little change of Ahe public arriving
at their real character. They might as well expect a fair ac-
count of the Government from the pages of the Morning airo.
nick, or from the mouths of those who invariably opposed it.
—The Honourable Member -then went into a description of
the origin of Orange Societies, and stated that they were firet
founded for the purpose* of mutual defence, and in support of
the Constitution and laws -as established by the Revolution,
against the faCtions that were ravaging the country in the year
1795. As their numbers advanced, and they were joined by
gentlemen of great property and talent, they agreed to certain
regulations, and to the administration of a secret oath. This
was the part of their conduct to which he objected. if the Le-
gislature had declared that it was illegal to administer a secret
oath, the act was a bleach of the law in one party as well as
atiother.—(Cheers.)—
He would never enter into any society
which was bound by oaths or principles of secresy. His Right.
Honourable Friend should therefore have his entire support in
the measure which he intended to bring forward. Independ-
ent of the oaths, be agreed most cordially in the principles
of theie Societies. Their acts had always been beyond re.
proach. When the unnatural union took, place between the
Catholics and Presbyterians, and they had a Committee in Dub-
lin for organizing troops and other rebellious objects, it was the
Orangemen who resisted them, and formed the rallying point
of loyalty and patriotisM. Their acts were the constant theme
of admiration and praise in the Irish Parliament. Their prin-
ciples remained the-kame thttiugh all changes, and were totally
distinct from those of the other Societies., The Hon. Member
'then named the other numerous Associations in existence front
that time downward, and said that they had indulged in rapine,-
robbery, assa.ssination and all the most diabolical acts—being
at all times stimulates ` to them by a religious spirit. What was
the conduct of the Orangemen in all eine time ? They adhered
Ito their principles of loyalty and support of the laws--and to
place against the crimes which he had described, there was
dressing the statue, walking in procession with banners, and
drinking the glorious memory. Upon these occasions there
had been attempts to bring karliament to decide against the
existence of these Societies.
_find upon all these occasions
it was remarkable that
the Catholics were making eats
to renew the disturbances of the country. At one of them
tire Catholic,,Board was being eetablished in Dublin, which
was a daring body setting itself up above the Legislature.—
It had its Committees,
its Chairmen, and its Secretaries,
and it levied money among the 'Catholics. It passed rms.
lutions, declaring that the acts of that Board. had more
authority with the Catholics than the Acts of the Legis-
lature. The, Government found it necessary to suppress
this Board, and its suppression gave the . greatest satiefac-
to make an attack upon Orange Societies, to cover the designs
tion to all loyal persons. But this was the period chosen
of this daring and self-constituted Parliament. The third at-
tack which had been made upon them wee in the present
:session, and he allowed that this speech of the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman was more moderate that he had expected.
d
(Hear t)—lt would be recollected Unit in November last eight
men ha been tried for adnlinisteriPg
+secret oaths. It was dis-
covered that in. Dublin there ware 'seventy-five lodges of Rib-
ban-men,
consisting
of forty-five each. Their object was to se-
parate the two kingdoms,
to extirpate
the Frotestant.religion,
and as one of the witnesses confessed, to cut off eresy. Then

was found upon them also a loyal oath, bet that was only car-'
ried as a proteetion, and never was intended to be worn. If
ot this ins
lain- ode? da
undot alarm
lessse the
sensibility
sibi Protestants,ityof (i
an
getrh ettyl hadthan
mlose s int
elligence
of ionatteellri gme cne.
It was the practice of the Catholics_ to endeavour to milder the
Orangemen 'odious to the people by imposing upon their cre-
dulity as to the intentions of that body. Among the papers exa-
mined by a Secret Committee of the Irish Parliament, there were
fabileatedvaths and regulations said to belong to the Orange
Societies, and which had been drawn uplor the purpose of dis-
tribution among the people. They contained resolutions that
each Member should be provided with a •Citsd of horse pistols,
and a sword, and twelve rounds of ball cartridge; that he
should be ready at a moment's warning to burn all the Chapels
and Meeting-houses in the'City of Dublin. These expedients
of deception were not. new, for he found in Harris' Reign of
King William it was stated that the same practices were re-
sorted,to for the purpose of creating hatred and fear of the Pro-
testants. Upon the same principle that daring and execrable
outrage of a few individuals, which had recently been committed
against the Lord Lieutenant in the Theatre, was magnified into
an attempt on the part ofthe Protestants at large to overthrow
the Government., VF as this the way to carry on the work of
conciliation which had made such great progress since his Ma-
jesty's presence among theni"? The Catholics had calculated
upon the result, and they wished to outrun the steps of time
in accomplishing their object Holding these opinions, be
should oppose the Address.—(Hear, hear.) . • •
Mr. M. FITZGERALD said, that if it had not been for
some observations of the Honourable Member who last ad-
dressed the House, there would have been almost an unani.
mous feeling of satisfaction at what had taken place. He
should not follow the Hon. Member through his description of
the fruits of those discords and convulsions which had been the
misery of Ireland. When, however, the Honourable Member
stated, that the Orange Societies arose out of a wish to de-
fend the peace and tranquillity of the country, he denied it on
the authority of the Acts of the Irish Parliament. lie well
recollected being on the Secret Committee alluded to by his
Honourable Friend, and • that the evidence adduced before that
Committee proved, that up to the invasion of Ireland by the
French, 'not one Catholic was admitted among the Society of
United Irishmen, except one of the Directors, a Dr. M‘Niven,l
who was, in fact, any religion. His Hbn. Friend had assured
them that Orange Societies did not exist before the year 1795
but it was notorious that long before that period people's
houses had been burned, end' every epeelca of devaetatitm
practised upon them. And this was at a time when Catholics
were not admitted into the Societies of United Irishmen, from
an apprehension that they were not cordial in the cause. His
lion. and Learned Friend, who moved the question, had been
asked why he had not directed his motion against other Secre
Associations as well as the Orange Societies? The an-
swer was obvious. Those other Societies were prosecuted by
the Government which had convicted many of their members.
The fact was; that the Orange Societies were too strong for die.
Government ; and although he .(Mr. F.) did rot charge the
members of them with entertaining treasonable designs, it was
but too evident that their existenceencouraged Counter-associa.
tion. These were the grounds of the motion of his lion, and
Learned Friend, and he trusted the House and the English'
Fetiple would concur in opinion with him. His Honourable
riend opposite had divided Ireland into two parties--the
Orange and the Catholic; by which of course was to be 'un-
derstood that Orangeman and Protestant were convertible
terms. He did not agree in the division made by his Hon.
Friend. ,Ile trusted and believed that there still remained a
portion of moderate Protestants who occupied the neutral
ground ; and he trusted too that a moderate Protestant would
not be called a rebel; for this appeared to be the meaning of
his Hon. Friend.

Mr. DA.WSON, in explanation, assured his Hon. Priemthe
had not stated any thing which had intended to convey such a
meaning.
Mr. FITZGERALD said his lion. Friend had certainly
stated that the rebellion was put down by Orangemen, who
were then the only loyal subjects. Now it was within his own
knowledge, that, in 1798, in addition to the K'ing's troops and
yeomanry, there was a militia of nearly 27,000 men, the
greater part of whom were Catholics. Ile was aisSociated in
the course of his military duty with Catholics, and he could
bear testimony, if it were necessary, to the zeal, ardour, and
bravery with which they had distinguished themselves, and
for which they had received the king's thanks over and over
again. His Hon. Friend opposite had said that it was. Orange.
men who had put down the rebellion. He referred to the
assertion, not to contradict it, for it contradicted itself; hut to
spew how the spirit complained of could affect even the most
honourable and generous friends—(lleer !)—What then must
be its effect upon illiterate persons who were moat likely to
• come almost in personal contact with the Catholics? But thire
hail always been a remarkable difi'erence between the people
of England and those of Ireland, with respect to party.--
In England, whenever there was a national object, the
people were unanimous, but, in Ireland, the Government
could succeed in a public object only by arming faction against
faction. In Ireland there was the raw material for a good
public mind; but if Government did not take the country out
of the hands of faction sooner or later the connection would
be severed. Ile understood that if Government would give a
pledge that the ;,10th George 111. as it now applied to Eng.'
land should :be extended, to Ireland, and impartially acted
upon, his Hon. and Learned Friend would withdraw his mo.
tion. But there was in Ireland a party spirit which denutnded
the prompt and serious attention of the Government. The
violence which had lately agitated the capital was notorious,
and he wait glad it would in some shape be brought under the
notice of the House. He would not however piastre this part
of the subject,'because he had no wish to interfere with a topic
which was connected personally with his Right lion. and'
Learned Friend' the Attorney-General for Ireland. lie email
not however forbear from observing," that the charges preferred
against the present Lord Lieutenant by the Orange party were
merely in substance, that he had acted a negative part; that he
had acted neutrally and impartially, and without inclining to
one aide or the other. The feeling which had'been excited by
his moderate conduct had been pretty plainly displayed at a
Beef Steak Club ; not a Club similar to that of the same name
in England, which was confined to objects of carousing ; but a
club which was a sort of conclaVe of polities. Here the mem.
hers disposed of governments, aryl propounded the deepest
political maxims. They had exported the herd Lieutenant in
the shape of a toast, professedly embracing a proposition in
political economy; The toast was —" The Exports of Ireland,
and may herenemies be among the first." The toast was un-
derstood to allude to the Lord Lieutenant, his Secretary, and
the •Attorney-General.—(A laugh.)--Ilis Ma city's visit to
Ireland had caused the only calm he had ever known it to en.
joy, and he much wished that those Geutlemen had acted
upon his Majesty's recommendation, lie would remind the
Government, that at the close of the Irish rebellion, in the
year 17118, when the rebellion itself had assumed a religious
character. Lord Cornwallis was sent over to check the party
now complained of. Ile did so,. and he performed the duty in
a way which `conferred a signal service on the country, and
would cause his name to be remembered with gratitute. If his
Majesty's Government would imitate the example of Lord
Cornwallis, they might confidently look. for as fortunate a re-
sult. Lord Cornwallis, however, had been sent over by an
United Cabinet, and no measure could be adorned with effect
while there was a division in their own councils. In conelu.
soon, he expressed his satisfaction to find that his Honourable
and Learned Frieutt was willing to withdraw his motion on the
Government giving such a pledge as he had mentioned.
Mr. Secretary PEEL said, that the. House would under.
stand the anxiety with which he addressed them on this mo-
tion, when he stated, that although he concurred In opinion
with time Right Honourable Gentleman who had just spoken,
on the necessity of union, he west still prepared to give a de-
cided negative to the present motion. lie however should be
sorry to do so, without distinctly explaining the sentiments he
entertained on this subject, and whkh would guide him to the
vote he should give. Ile declared, fully and uneptivocally,
that his object was peace, anti the calming of party spirit.—
He desired no triumph ; he 'wished. to prevent a triumph on
either side ; and he would add, that he should deprecate even
success, if it were thought he owed it to a party aseociation.
Ile was well aware that time opinions of an individual were of
little consequence ; but lie was also aware that, connected with
public situation, those opinions received a weight which they
would not have secured of themselves. It was on this account
that he was, particularly anxious to express his opinion, for,
if in fact, he had ever pledged himself to the support or appro-
bation of time Societies against which this motion was levelled,
he might still offer any arguments that might suggest them-
selves against the motion ; arguments standing all together on
general grounds, and not connected with these Societies,
amid yet, it might be supposed, that his latent object was the
securing of the triumph-of the party in question. His senti-
ments on this subject had been expressed only once in Perlin-
tnent ; and the occasion arose out of a motion made, in 1814,
by a night Honourable Baronet (Sir John Newport) for an
Address to the Crown, for copies of all addresses which had
been presented to him (Mr. Peel) he then being Chief Secre-
tary for Ireland, and copies of all answers to those addresses.
—The Right lion. Baronet made the motion under an impres-
sion, that he (eMr. I'eel) had encouraged the Orange Societies.
Ile (Mr. P.) himself seconded the motion, which was agreed to,.
and no return was ever made to it; for in fact he laid received
no addresses at all. He now distinctly declared that he had
never in his life recognised an Orangeman in that character.--
(Cheers.}-.-Ho was was once thanked by a (band Jury for a de-
fence which he had made for the Orange Societies; anti he
would state the occasion of it. In the course of the year 1814,
Petitions were presented by an lion. Baronet, (Sir H. Parnell
we believe) containing attacks upon the Orangemen; and he
then certainly defended them by becoming testimony to their
past services to the Country, their loyaltyand their obediente

laws;toocagnrhoirtharnoenve,asmc,epoce.rrN
question.
unnecessary,
K hTt
ini iilo..joioenuatslebdntuisjui
eri
in, neltv.clbealt
oniqAa"dtni
outkutt
it
embittered
individual)
l
•
any political confederafy, bound together as theirs was : set J
but he expressly said that he did not approve d
this was the only public declaration he hrd ever made on tlt
suct. Last year some papers had been sent him. containiq
thews and regulations of an Orange Institution in Englaet
with the opinions of several eminent legal Gentlemen, declarief
their belief that the institution, a s formed, was legal. The et
sorer which he sent he had indorsed on the letter containing tie
Resolutions. The letter was dated the 2.2e1 of Feb. 111•22 andtk
endorsement ran thus—" Desired Mr. Hold:mese to Call 024
say I do not approve of the establishment of ()range. L
in EnFland ; and that, legal or not, I think they will doge
good. %--(Cheers.)—He assured the House he troubled thee,
with this only to show that he could address himself to thi
question free from any pledge. He considered the questine
itself might be considered on most important constitutiork
grounds. The lion. and Learned Gentleman had said that lis
object was to put down the Orange system. and that he wan
the authority and ascendancy of known laWs. Ile (Air. P.),
tuhpooungrhatrttyhisspiwriast. the only way to combat such societtesn wi-t!,
effect. No doubt it would be proper and mime to prevet thou!
awdoitillidinisbteeritnog.ocofuset:rile,otenogoaethtifsla,erthhpuerittriiteithpwaie imposeible to 14;011143_ ,
Learned Learned
societiest .
led,l
(19 iittitl‘no,ery
.hsPliatt;lie.hi:le etthainhdriteenidi neigliit
tlig
e°o:nntei ..ctie.a:thnnie
tie!:
party spirit and to irritation. If hi
he would ask how the I-lon. and Learned Gentkman Pft;erd
to deal with the difficuly ? Would he suppress all
,E,11„,
societies ?—(Hear, hear ! frofn Mr. Abercomby.)—:l"%cibh
Gentleman said " hear, hear !" but surely it *la 'n4)°lmen
that he could intend, in a free country like this, to Pat tit it,
all political society. His (Mr. P.'s) mode of dealing a,',„_,„,,
would be to employ die influence of Government in
atice,',.,
raging the feeling. lie was fully sensible that a man co 1a!':
take a strong part in public without obtaining the tit''.
Orangeman. or some other party designation bathefen;
always afraid of dealing too harshly with pain 304' ant
feared violent interference might ageravate it. The Iftuel.,
Ire'
leoLateanundrsernwedenfoerGmGenoosdvaememay
moranenh:agwde:trusentloy; saidhtlt 'thheapt
rt,l,iteenit'e7lll4o,3",raisLawfinte,
fering with them as individuals on that account. '114.1.174,
duct ; amt this was the course taken by himself in Jol.,Y,±.'yo,
He had sent a letter to the different Brigade.illejorsn I e
_.,.
manrY, forbidding the Yeomanry appearing in items o thatt'','„
pun iirilai.neicr4. iillrleYluloitfethatielden ncliaaottuttldeilrethter'ef thfeomennilsliodly;nieel.lioniTn:ll.l;l:l: et: 'l{ll:.lece;;:::::tg:t,itiept7ll,
tunes. And must not the House see the difficulty 10,
inner
4,
sented itself to a UovernMent forbidding this Pr th3t•tuton ?"‘"
though the playing of it might excite considerable irsrl,Trel writti
Couttohe:rtnrofueullioncik
we.as.
suslabiecnltCehisely.yaeardviiserahil,e:vhiennit
ihiee had
(hlll,i'e:fe:getratceirto:
it:
twunroeste, toobthserevedllrie:ade illajor of Yeomanry+ "tatia'eee their
vernment conceived .they
twhiontgild give the best pree_ toefite
loyalty by avoiding
proofGovt.rnu of
attachment.l en t woul ddiac,:ot,nnihitrisieithesetrleheernia*elld:'itretntiln4wielo!li:lridi:lsPnillisifil'orreYetrilllhifetiie'l:t.:ariyirb):llTlol,l°ll;o.estltsal°oltl_l:.:instle,ivrtg:ll:::lth:llthr°ll:or.i.
still held ; and all that lie asked was, that he miglat, _on this
ed to differ front the Honourable and Learned 31elleeren,:,..,
question, without having his sincerity called into es I_'",i•he
(near. hear *—The Hon. and Learned Oentleinan,;..p.)
wjpotielf..ictseesoledienmodecernbtigyousedhitlitiessys4.:nuto‘uifirgioarcii,iatiottnedal. 1
tehmel iltaiewa,l
he
e „r s:associationic,i :het:no t,ll:eotli.e.:lcit:alr;
objected to this so far as regarded the dealing with lew be por,
the county when an attempt was made to °Yerreould thel
that affiliated Societies, bound together hy.ostlisl .eit de
Ile never -
wort.: de
law of Ireland, to this respect, aught to be assinnlatea_rende•
of England.—(Cheers.),-In afew weeks he shoul,i. Deee'ree
the Atto
the ,oteio•
rilheopaanvrtofieytn'tnolAreeisdlanioc:drattiflianonslrsemm;tunacibghkuliinttigt,,shtfejunrtdhhi4eesroiteoveerntliceTtnsiiyonpci'esui.);,P,cly:,o74see;loe;ft,
ji`i‘ His opposition. to those concessions was Ini that dr•Ti
;tot think that Secret Associations were the best tia 1040 la
sisting the Catholic Clainis.—(hear, hear !)f 1 e he 1010 '
1
oo
ewnilultb;:otleeeictedt.iitialla
tret:npeuttetedtetgtratdstseoetd,ivrohhwwibteedf,:in,e4seominiesrtidftwiolatio;:leitidulrchea.tmhh%iht
et:Tlierri.che.;;li
dnd:wltitdrontaingolhiealwklelfeinvsetsasifiootevnit,t
htool,Blrghliguthrtuleiolhlivr°ntisbgtinetueetioaohraeotinn°tfrvlretntellegloadsolir alive)tsla)eosiLyiieocrlit:(fndolrn'ire(bnie°..epoeditletiriePt:iinelibi,6ncilea:Per
eserolicoileoiet)cselt°ssnlutBapcu•er)oicegitit.2(lrmeia;i)ece,htlielstirni'li.a,stssileb°)esstiondhif,ntl:6lll's,oviacllo'sg.iiiv,tptoterestiroosr:
riAnid'');sit_fr),elltti.
r,t,e,thisAtili.,:rizei,ll`inyliottaiti)°)lensiftitt.eutsc,nt:,,aest:it':,l°'oll:'-nroTteirtrilt.:o'lll.ll:Tatillttilvthi3ocoliliteeithel't:cifierittriniiiit'il_litt
c°s.,lllstiikteicilliti...locnotmrPe.ttist,g t 3-111 It:
illic'eli,:i eisr.tgiii.
it. -,
more generous than those of policy. The trill; Clitl {
d
C
y
it
it
safelyoii nag!,k e theen Catholic
awiie,ther there we' 11'..esorct Ire..
r
case, have connection
cured;
t.
Frenchti
. e
b
P 1 i but
::vingnhaeh etcilen(fi pot
im",obl.liireel.:r
nwaorvittat Igtil:m'ill:lin'itt°ett should
'ol
4ProtestantforgetelimirPe r-Aci ) r elehelialuagt I:tsnt
eehl:
eltntilr'l'te)PrneP
°l
tjtr
.° torttjci
ii
services
tiii‘e:l
3;
'''lll.
I n't.fa::Yad'tri
an it
II"'
' wthiliie::t*
1:e
1 )-11''ir:.-I°.:
ni
I'll
I.
:
twinwioasvoun:.ilidHptiafte:ll:roereenlistehthyhaedeetreno:poear:sainstance had ever born kilnedurol st .c 3
support of the laws,n
:Lien
fmerattnnutigtooralalnuedwe..e teookit be .isles ,
io
gibe
_.,,
matter 0 „wn seating e.t.a te.
fleas nlo.edfththec:fontirmsotiutusoetfioanalelddres.3 tonfitihet7euereinssigainies: "*".l
17ht
rea'l'
to concur in
"Is to trial deeply prejudiced by the reeolutio . of
edatetsh,
if the latter, it was useless and unconstitutionale' in one el ',ll
Crown ; for new laws must necessarily origins:in the liofeite°r,
tis calledoucn. 'll
'DH: In
s Z rOa he
' le
n 1 '1,•• andascertain e vlmsrwelette,l3
less
yale:it'.
tiln timesoir
ohb.bitier Yrlceycolpneel )fliirel I::
the
It4tr,ntlisehed° ahe
collectively.il breach
cehafeepag
afhal,.nrir
inloisceotnnohtt'tri 'tiurlilorrihoasbsi)
onateanaeli
;)Issrtliewei' 'ir):: i
I's
otLi :o.
0,
~t;‘, ' e":1'
)u,it.falitpool
vll,
~twt,,tindir)tt.:).
ric,
::
I,ln:itat'.e'ssvtle,tnstllil
pbaktionin_rrel)soin,ore:el
or :0:30°Ot h
get I,,:tgli:ipl :II
1 te3i
til,.
igedo
~41,, . a
ivi4 sadAivl,lit'col ''''
;41
1 1 ic
°'
bi
1,00 0 t
to rfeo dee
I Dotilti.l 0, Cl;;
1 1
at'l,.::,
Houses of Parliament. There' ass, 11,_,Pa'„sis,,ged the„,iit 100 re
liable to some misconception ; Imo oe '".'. d biol.. se te.
able and Learned Gentleman had expreele
the Hee 00
distinctly. The passage was that by whichuno ell fop.
upons
was,
of his Majesty's subjects, equally, the hen e,“_,, in hise:tolic
dnecoladreolibitst, wish to
Pt:o:enrn'fi'prgutiOlte'tOtlitieleCePtilldillif::
I rd n allusionsa ne tla
iwna so
nirigtnce
ert:entn'naedoswt lei.< intended. intendediiihailcoer.
sel He saide:
t aiwtosnana 3s,ca
nrlB.l:7:i;titiithri toeste Ilegy ti;slitsaibr°llo:ll:::ii.,!l!
d
t.
ithojoi
vpsfilneealfl
artyrettnnt.
fi
ieteg
Ithitttdni became
r,isiitt,..ll,:;lol
Society,
ritadviseo often
then r a
n lousehi
high
h nota
nudi dheeclartheoualgilirt.rPorf
0931:19:::::::
and leearned illember himself must he 0va1.% ovecl4caltf
r
e
I
oalifntddeDneAudsssfieertnuationsi apt7eventliteheth
People, though they were not bound together "'it wolueled th!
oaths all were now agreed tO :the'provde aeredashieh dis, no"
which would be effected b),, ettle std the
festation of the spirit migoohautighbile: he coda'(
:::::on:are::0 the
would follow, aggravated by feelinge of irratiro SOCieitl iv orl!A tit
which had published Resolutions signed " T. -.4),,, not very/4'
tinutiOnalfregroe county
dfiirlsdaphparodyeadroigfhtlti to
I;eti'.11:;": hireen;:eeltietc°66le
dhlreaeparcormencseted the idea of a triumph. Beibre.t ha clelill/e"
curred in the preventuritgunoiftYt4f dsrtaestsihnlg t°lll"f‘tllliteg iternlceolit'[',--te
Statute last November.—(Cheere)—and thate.„ Ooirel,not sldi
iidveridedththe aisPPhrie°beaotnit)einirrnefnhcel'a:slie'hietirelYrer:4lihets tt‘ii;
the
shortlyo
though a Bill would be brought in on the seleliee hi!, 00;
tiTosptednietythoef
refl)oeuesetingwionu._fld
negative, unless the lion. and Learned Meni es, et
..esh ~,
to withdraw it. He by no means wis'aed the R"he p 0.70 ta
Gentleman to withdraw it ; but if it shouto viol ha
he had
aiwn7alhwueadmv:::euealittedtedr.tainiete,
reerittredgertuetrocl
of the 111,-Irit I
Air. G RAT rAN spoke shortly in (airier
not the n toelise,
Mr. Secretary CANNING said be did he havp Cre%tee
his
i on . reason,
. Int 1 e 11 ii lea ii should,
intention of detainin the !louse, nor wet' ionteirith ;Is P hi
all but for the personal allu.'ilon which an i ii. ilevlA Itift d
man did him the honour to make in his srecyatiens• we eotee„
that his hope of the prosperity of Ireln I
...meet 0 bat h
Id
thet a ',„ta lif. 1;7,
greater if the different Members of the 00„vee„1"teellis. I- irel",,l
Lieutenant, as in the time of hoed t..o'2ejeere ° stcre.,A,
undivided upon a question on which the w oestde eest,, tj
atspidokreesseaa7ityViivin ohsereete, I,
„,,,, heel
• ht lion° ,eiller ',en r"'
was deeply concerned. , The liti i t moo °bre' lie/
wished to see a (4m:eminent united 011 t"a outer to et, or, ill
but ready as he was to make sacrifice-4 in.aet en t,"secce'tee
object, he was convinced to unite a Cob' fedeeo,,t 0111101
other leading question, was most 1.1 the the pre!`:, eplied,
the experiment could not be hoped for. 14 of h0p0i7,4,001;0,
of persons, he abandoned the sanguineness lie holt ,iie li 'it.,
etiontire thel
to that question. Although on the ()need gill 6'l,,iitti
there was difference of' opinion, he coo: tto Adore-
Gent. it was not possible to unite a Cabill
. . , .
(et,Tuiefrsol.l),:evrt:
aisg:lever
thotitii,,eooo,l
phi
e e