The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-06 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMEICT.
HOUSE Of LORDS, Feb. 5.
The LORD CRANCELLOR took his seat on
the Wool-
sack at Five o'clock.
EXCHEQUER-BILLS AND B.A.ILWAY.DIVI-
DENDS.
Lord BROUGHAM moved for a rett
and for
autra
ooff
Itte
.
prices of Exchequer-bills, from the
bruary, 1346, to the Ist of February,
1847,
a return of the dividends pied on railway stock
during the same period. _ also moved for a
return of the names of all the holders of
.railway
Irish proprietors.
on the Ist of February, 13-17, whoidwlee
His object was not one of mere. rceuriosit but as it
appeared that there was some intention of assimilating
Ireland with England, it was but right that this informa-
-on should be given in order that they might know how
ttio legislate. He desired this the more as he found that
a statement had been made last night in another place,
the object, the express object, of which was to raise the
price of railway shares by distributing money through-
out the country, so that those shares which stood at 1001.
might be raised to 2001. He would take that oppor-
tunityof vindicating himself from a grievous misrepre-
sentation. He did not generally care about misrepre-
sentation; but he had been so painfully assailed by so
many letters, that he wished to put himself right,
for he was described as one of the most cruel and
hard-hearted individuals in existence. It was stated
that he wished to raise the price of bread. What he
actually said was, that it was better that bread should be
dear rather than cheap in a time of scarcity ; for if
wheat were to be brought to market cheap at such a
period the whole produce would quickly be bought up;
and thus, if there was a scarcity in the month
of February, that scarcity would become fa-
mine in the month of June. The very words he
used were, that ho would rather bread was dear
than cheap, lest scarcity should become dearth, and
dearth be converted into famine. His Noble Friend
(the Duke of Rutland) had put his establishment on
three-fifths of their usual allowance, and he had done
the same. The question of price did not affect such
persons as his Noble Friend and himself, but it did
naturally affect the poor labourer, and therefore he de-
sired that the bread should be kept up, so that the whole
of the supplies should be exhausted before they got the
fresh harvest in. He thought that in times of distress,
especially, public men should not be misrepresented.
Lord STANLEY perfectly agreed with his Noble
Friend (Lord Brougham) that public men should not be
misrepresented, but he had stated that a great and com-
prehensive measure which was introduced the other
night in another place was brought in solely
for the purpose of raising the price of shares.
A more frivolous misrepresentation could not be made.
He did not intend to stop then to urge the policy of the
measure of his Noble .Friend, because, unless the
interposition of the Crown were exercised to
pass it into a law, without the intervention of
their Lordships, it would shortly come before them
for discussion, but he could not forbear stating that
the object of the Bill was not to raise the value of rail-
way shares in Ireland, but for the purpose of promoting
its interests, without adding one shilling to the taxes of
the people of this country.—(Hear, hear.) It was for
carrying out works of great public utility, which, with-
out the aid of the State, must be discontinued at the
very time when they were most necessary—for the
purpose of encouraging :sad improving the condition of
the agrizultural labourers of that country, and for fur-
nishing the means for giving constant employment to a
large portion of the population for the next four years
at least, but not withdrawing them from agricultural
employment by giving them too easy or too well-paid
work. The object was to facilitate improvements in the
internal communication of the country, at a time when
capital from private individuals was checked, on account
of the deplorable condition of the people. Entertaining
great respect for his Noble Friend in another place (Lord
3. Bentinck), and for his Noble and Learned Friend in
shot House (Lord Brougham), he could notallow it to go
forth that the scheme propounded by his Noble Friend
had for its object to increase the value of railway shares,
because it had for its object, as he had said, the promo-
tion of great national improvements of great public
advantage, without casting any additional burdens on
the people of this country.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord BROUGHAM thought his Noble Friend must
have been attending to something else, and not being
able to listen to two things at once, had attributed a
statement to him which he did not make. He did not say
that the object of the Bill was for the purpose of bene-
fiting private individuals by enabling them to sell their
shares at a higher value than they could at present. Un-
doubtedly the groundwork of the measure was to apply
capital to Irish railways, and to enable railway owners
to sell their railway shares. What he stated
was, that for:every 100/. worth of shares sold out another
100/. worth would be bought in. He had not read the
debate of last night—in fact, he was not often in the
habit of reading them—but a friend had informed him
that the Bill would enable the holders of shares to sell
them, and to invest their capital in others. He had no
imonomanis against railways; he only wanted to see
there carried out at the expense of their promoters, and
not at the expense of others.
The Duke of RICHMOND could not allow the mea-
sure to be disposed of in the present manner without
saying 0, few words on the subject. It was a measure
calculated to be of more permanent service than any
measure whleh had ever been introduced since he had been
in that House. It appeared to him to commence
at the right end—Cheers)—and would induce capital
to flow from this country to Ireland, and the conse-
quence would be that the Irish people would consume
more exciseable articles, be better able to live on the
produce of their own agriculture; it would improve the
morals of the people, and it would also be the means of
enabling them to consume more manufactured
goods, and thereby extending the home markets, which
after all, was the foundation of the great prosperity of
this country. lie did not oppose the motion of his
Noble and Learned Friend, and he hoped that there
vvould be enough English and Scotch Members to
carry that Bill through who were not in the least
connected with railways. (Cheers.) The people
of Englaud were not called upon to give money by this
measure to the people of Ireland; the measure was one
which would take nothing out of the pockets of the
people of England, but would give support to the people
of Ireland.—(Cheers.)
Earl FITZWILLIAM said that he had nothing to
offer in opposition to the motion of the Noble and
Learned Lord. He regretted the tone of the conversa-
tion which had taken place on the subject. It might be
'considered that the Noble and Learned Lord had some
sidolong view in wishing to have the names of all
those persons who might be possessed of shares in Irish
railways, He was aware, on looking to the votes
of the House of Commons, that a measure had been in•
troduced into that House for the purpose of facilitating
the making of railroads in Ireland. He then looked
anxiously to see whet her the Bill was brought in by the
Noble Lord at the head Bill was Government he
was disappointed, Nwever, to see that the Noble
Lord was not the author of the Bill ; but
when he saw, not from the official accounts, but from
accounts, though not official, peraps quite as accurate,
that the Bill was in such very able hands as the Noble
Lord's who had introduced it, he was much gratified.—
(Loud cheers.) The Noble Lord had exhibited zeal,
industry, and ability, which had entitled him
to the gratitude of the Irish people and the
united empire. He wished that the measure had been
in the hands of the Government, and that they had
had the credit of introducing such a crowning measure
as had been introduced.—(Cheers.) Ho hoped there
would be no interference with the prerogative to pre-
vent the measure passing.—(Cheers.) He came down
to the House determined to express his opinions upon
the subject ; and, considering the relation in which he
stood with her Majesty's Government, he felt it his duty
to state to them what course he meant to pursue.
He could not conceive that, as they were not the au-
thors of the measures, it would not be agreeable to
them that he should rise and express his opinions in
favour of the measure.—(Cheers.) In whatever hands
the measure may be in, when it came up to their Lord-
ships' House, he was determined to give it his most
strenuous and undivided support. Lie certainly thought
that the Railway system should be in the hands of the
Government rather than of individual members or com-
panies, who would be supposed always to study their
own interests rather than the great interests of the whole
co:intry, and especially Ireland in its present state.
He had deep rooted opinions that the whole railway
system should be in the hands of the Government. It
was a most anomalous thing, that all the means of
travelling should be in the hands of some
great companio. These opinions he bad entertained
and expressed, for many years, to their Lordships.
lie hoped the Government would take the measure into
their own hands. as he believed it would be ofsmore use
than any other measure which had been brought under
the notice of the House by her Maiesty's Ministers.
Now he was not going to express any opinion, either for
Or against the landlords of Ireland, but he thought
that tho measure which contemplated the im-
provement of the country through the instru-
mentality of one class could not possibly produce
those beneficial results which they ought to
contemplate. lie thought, connected
betawih this great
of
measure of railways, there ought system
if pot carried otl, At least largely assisted.
emigration,He thought that
by Government.--(Hear, bear.) .
the persons employed upon rail .7ays ought
g ltlo
.radu a y
have the opportunity ;01 emigrating
and be was decidedly an advocate for some graoil 5Y:s-
tern of emigration going on throughout the whole sur-
face of the land. Upon these grounds he was
decidedly of opinion that, instead of these
railways being intrusted to private companies, they
ought to be taken up and constructed toy Government at
the public expense.—(Hear, hear.)
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said he did not in-
tend to oppose the return, nor
did he apprehend that
the motion would have given rise to any discussion.
After what had fallen, however, from the Noble*Lord,
who had just resumed his seat, he must be allowed
to say a word
or two. The particular preroga-
tive the Noble Earl had alluded to was ono of the
most constitutional prerogatives attached to the
Crown, and one which it would be injudicious
and unwise to abandon in any instan As yet
measure, but
it had not been interposed to stop this
C easure,
whether it would be exercised byru the would
depend upon the opinion entertained by iierwAnlaesty's
advisers as to the degree of mischief the measure
was likely to produce upon the public interest;
He was surprised that this observation should have been
made on a motion like this, and especially one which
bad been made without notice.
The Earl of WINCIIILSEA could not refrain from
making a few observations_ „for no man felt more deeply
the distress of his fellow-countrymen than he
did ; and while he gave all credit. to her: Ma-
jesty's Government for their intentions, and while
he fully appreciated the difficulties withthe which
sures
they
had to contend, he still must say that mea
which they proposed to introduce Would never prove of