The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-12 00:00:00

TTIE SUN, LONDON, FI“DAY EVyI4,:!NG, FEBRUARY 12, 1847.

point with respect to cheap trains—there were many other points
of minor importance, on which it was not necessary for him to
detain the House, as they would be found in the Bill, and be
open to discussion in Committee. The House was probablyaware
that the law with respect to cheap trains was this—That
railway companies were required to run at least one train a
day for the conveyance of persons, at an txpense of not more
than Id. a mile, in carriages where they would be protected
from the weather, and which might be approved by the Com-
missioners; and that they should not travel less than twelve
miles an hour. Any further interterence might be objected to
on the ground that the companies had fulfilled and would
fulfil the provisions of this Act, by travelling some
parts of the journey at the rate of twenty or thirty
miles an hour, and by compelling the passengers
to wait at some of the stations for other trains, yet
completeing the whole journey at the average rate of twelve
miles an hour. Now, he did not think that was a fair way to
proceed. and that it was opposed to the intention of the Legis-
lature; and, therefore, by the Bill it was proposed not only to
take the time of starting, but the time of stopping asd starting
from the different stations.—( Hear.) Another point was the
number of passengers. The Commissioners at present had
powers with respect to the rates to be paid by those parties, but
they had no power aver the number of passengers to be ree-
ve) ed by the trains. He proposed that the number
of passengers to be carried, should be affixed in-
side the carriages, and that certain penalties should be
imposed, on any infraction of the rule. Also when the train.
travelled at night, that there should be lights in the carriages.
He came now to another question—namely, the disputes be-
tween Railway Companies. He would exemplify the diffi-
culty of adjusting these disputes by two extracts from
evidence given before Committees last session. Mr. Hawk-
shaw, the engineer of the Leeds and Manchester Railway.
stated, in reply • v a question from the Hon. :Member for Mon-
trose (Mr. flume), with respect to the utility of the existine
board, that in some c ices it might not act very advantageously,
but with respect to disputes between companies which
formed links in one great chain, that it would
be a most essential and useful tribunal. He
found that Mr. Glyn, a Member of that House, and th,
Chairman of the North Western Railway, entertained a simi-
lar view. He said " instances had occurred of one company re-
fusing to put on third class trains to meet the third class trains
run by another company, in connexion with it; and that greai
inconvenience had resulted in consequence." This, for in-
stance, might occur—suppose two competing lines, meeting at
a given point, refused to give accommodation to each other
with respect to these trains, it was obviously in the power of the
one company to deprive the other of the advantages which it
wished to effect, by limiting the time of the starting of the
trains, so that the public would derive no advantage.
Now that subject he thought deserved the most serious con-
sideration of the commissioners. The law at present was,
that the Commissioners, where the public safety was concerned,
might make such arrangements as they might think le oper to
promote it. Now, the Commissioners thought it advisable to
adhere to the words of the Act which gave them this power.
with this addition, that where, from the bad management of
the company, considerable inconvenience was caused to the
public by the want of a proper understanding between two or
more companies, who were compelled to use their lines in
common, that on the complaint of one company, the
Commissioners should take steps to einove those inconvenieneest
Then, with respect to the disturbances which often took place
in connexion with the construction of railways, there was a
difference in the state of the law on this subject. In Scotland,
where parties congregated together and created a disturbance
the sheriff had the power to decide whether a policeman, to be
paid by the company, should be employed or not. In England
it rested with the magistrates. Now he proposed that if any
two justices of the peace stated, by a report to the Commis-
sioners, that the employment of police was necessary for the
protection of the public peace, that the Commissioners might '
order the employment of a certain number of police
at the cost of the company. There were, as he had said
minor points, which would be discussed in Committee, and
with which he would not trouble the Reuse—( Hear, hear)—
such as the conveyance of military, military stores, &c., on
which he would not detain the House.—( Hear.) There was
one, however, which he considered a very important one—that
it was proposed by the Bill, that the Commissioners should
have power to call 'for returns from the different railway com-
panies, and if they thought fit, to be at liberty to verify the in-
formation which they might thus furnish, if they thought such
a course necessary. He did think this absolutely necessary,
as it was impossible that all the facts that were
required from time to time, could be obtained.
by re, urns voted by the Legislature. On a former evening, 1
the lion. and Gallant Member for Lincoln (Colonel Sibthorp) I
proposed that the Bill should contain a provision for giving
parties, who might be inlared, or their friends, if they were
killed, to recover compensation ; hut perhaps the Hon. Gentle-
men was not aware that a great alteration was made in the law
on the subject, by the introduction cf a Bill last session by
Lord Campbell. Before that Act was passed, a person, who
was injured, or his relatives, if he were kilted by the mis-
conduct or neglect of a company, had no right
of action, but this Act gave that power. He
was not inclined to propose any alteration or
addition for reasons—first, because he thought it was right.
before any alterations were made, to know how the Act worked,
and, secondly, if further legislation was necessary, that it
ought to be general, and not confined to accidents caused by
railways, but in other ways.— ( Hear, hear.) He had now
gone into the main provisions of the Bill. He did not at all
pretend to propose it as a complete measure ; in fact, it muss
be obvious that a measure of that kind could not be complete
and that increased experience might lead them subsequently to
adopt improvements which that experience might suggest; but
he did think, if it received the favourable consideration of Par.
liament, that it would be found a useful amendment of the
present law, and that it would be found, at the same time, most
beneficial to the public, without being injurius to the real
interests of railway proprietors.—(Lod cheers. o)
Mr. AGLIONBY said, during the fourteen or fifteen years
he had occupied a seat in that House, he newer heard a more
clear or satisfactory statement than that delivered by the Hon.
Gentleman who had just resumed his seat ; and he thought that
be might congratulate the House and the public that the Hon.
Gentleman had commenced his official duties by introducing
questions of so much importance to the consideration of the
House.—( Hear, hear.) As one of the public, he felt a sincere
interest in the welfare of railways ; anal he spoke without bias,
as he did not hold a share in one of them—but he hail an inte-
rest, as one of the public, in seeing them all well and efficiently
conducted, so that they might afford great advantages to the
public. He rose to make a suggestien which he was almost in-
clined to believe, railway companies would consider it advisable
to adopt, without interference from any branch whatever—he
meant the stopping of trains at a certain number of stations,
and the taking care that a reasonable number of trains stopped
to meet the wants of the districts which they traversed.
He admitted that this would involve an interference
with the discretion of directors, but it was for the
House to say whether it was justified or not. In fact, he saw
no reason why interference should not take place in this way
as well as with respect to the fares. The directors of railways
paid every attention to the long traffic but little to the short.
On a railway which ran between two large towns the trains
offered every accommodation—cheap fares and regular jour-
nies—whereas the short traffic was often taken part of the
distance at a rapid pace, and left for some time at stations on
the route. There should be a general rule that, where a die.
trict had no other means of accommodotion than by railway
that a certain number of trains should stop during the day.
It might be said that this was a matter in which the directors
were the best parties to judge ; but he considered that this
was one of those matters with which they might interfere with,
as well and as beneficially as with most others.—
( Hear, hear.) They had to keep up stations and officers.
and often stopped trains by signals, when passengers or
goods were to be conveyed, se that the regular stopping of the
trains could not involve much additional expense or much loss
of time ; but even supposing there was some pecuniary loss, it
would be nothing compared with the advantages which would
be thus conferred upon the public. He hopes his suggestion
would be adopted in Committee. He begged to second the
motion.
The SPEAKER having put the question,
Mr. HUME said, in his opinion the publics would derive
great advantage front the Bill. He wished to know whether
he proposed to take any steps with respect to the
running of trains on Sundays. It was not well
to leave the question an open one as at present.
Considerable agitation had taken place on the subject, land as
many as nineteen towns had petitioned in favour of trains
running on that day. In one ease, the matter rested entirely
with two directors. He should be glad to leave the matter in
the hands of the Commissioners. He thought the House ought
rather to favour those who were compelled to travel by the third
class carriages, instead of throwing impedimenta in their way,
He hoped the Commissioners would turn their attention to the
subject, and promote their comfort as much as possible.
Mr. ELLICE apprehended that great good would arise
from the measure. He had examined the details of the Bill
now before the House, and had found that the capital which
they proposed to expend amounted to 41,000,0001. Now, it
was important to know what course was to be adopted with re-
pect to these Bills, in the present state of public business, the
Hon. Gentleman could not expect to have the Bill passed be-
tore these Bills went before Committees in the ordinary course.
It was right that the House should know if the Hon. Gentle-
man intended the measure he had introduced to interfere in any
way with those Bills.
111 r. STRUTT was understood to say that the Bill had
in view future railway legislation, and would not
affect the railway Bills now before the House. If
there should be any special matter on which Parliament
should require a report from them, it would be in the power of
Parliament to require such reports from the board, but as the
session was so far advanced it would be impossible to go into
such inquiries as were proposed. They would be able to go
into the general merits of the Bill, but they could not enter
into local inquiries. Such questions, as of amalgamation and
so forth, they would examine into to the best of their ability,
but it would be of the greatest importance that they should
keep quite distinct the questions of the general merit, and of
rival merit, as want of time as well as want of organi-
sation, during the present session, would prevent the board
from undertaking such responsibilities; and he was most anx-
ious that they should not have any duty imposed upon them at
first which they would not be able satisfactorily to perform.
Mr. ELLICE wished to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer
whether it was the intention of her Majesty's Government to
' propose any standing orders, under which all loans relating to
railroads should be referred to the Railroad Board for their
report, and that that report should be laid before the House.
Mr. ENTWISTLE said that he considered the Bill
to be a very excellent one as laid down by the Right
Hon Gentleman. The control which they would exercise
over new schemes by the proposed system of deciding between
two rival schemes was excellent; the Board would not
ascertain whether a better line could be obtained, but only
which of the two were the better—neither of which ought to
come before the Legislature for its sanction. He did not see
dape eedil
xatelors ocai,
exercise
oat
mht
that
that the Bill would give them the power of insisting them•
selves on a line which would really answer the wants of the
district to be supplien by railway communication. He consi-
dered,
confessed that the
iittpthereerreo4pect to the veto, the board might use-
fullyperi
taohtdie: prerogative, and
House.as
n d
suggested, thve ri therecouldreferenced see thenm t b
tolls,
somewhatl
lans,
i
short for a true resultan to be obtained.—( Hear, hear.) He
sAligoauilnd not offer offewrould opposition to the Bill upon those points.
p consequenceassing
wit h
of
fvaluable
observe, that the twelve hours'
train
was necessarily obliged to go slow, in
frequently to be moved out of th
the vaeneg
importantgwreaayt i
in order
number of trains
not interfere with the safety of LET(ssen geol.;
dt.rearffic, that
it might
had
The CHANCELLOR of the
to the question of Mr. Ellice) said that
aidtew, oaunldd
itb ennegxhtrtetmeehlye
desirable that such a report should be
carefully considered what words would be introduced in the
Bill.

tend. down a ampetent officer to the spot, who should state, by
public, adverasement or otherwise, the time at which he should
arrive at die'erent points along the line, for the purpose of re-
Ceiving the ouggestions of the landowners with reference to the
Proposed railway. If the promoters of the Bill should choose
to adopt thosevariations, they' may. be at liberty to in-
elude Theo
of plans an: Seinctiothnisor ewithout making public report
cwtihose promotexso hewever, declined to
adopttom
suggestions, it the
was then oroposOtt that the gausses
restricti'ri sere should have site power, should they deetn those
o
,tts advisable, to authooise those, to plans ants sections f. •
also be e mpeweretio deposit the
tott, voriatiots at Illey might propose, sad
pointed .
refuse coin liarce .ng to - bakiiiseltzhe Committee ap-
e upo
"siii;tlso knerits -Of ali`e and: to order or
this measulheemou. shch. variatiosis•a. By the 4doption of
soared. istsOonvenience. time,-and expense would be
w=a'st
orders, at pr reference to the 'proofs before standing
May and ettoOst conducted before two examiners, Messrs.
stestostui7 •of
Sonia), appointed by that House in the last
h
V-arliament, he thought that in future sessions,
droas:,,lbe enecessary that the proofs of the standing orders
•I he revised by the Railvtay themsees,
ose_sr
o.
s under their supervision. At present the only mode
rig the accuracy of the plans and sections deposited with
:louse was by means of the oppo•ition of the opponents to
7.a measure. Numerous Bills had been allowed to pass the
'standing orders, in which the grossest ioaccuracies were evi-
dent to the Committees, who hail no power, however, of testing
them.
coern.. It was now proposed that the officer sent down by the
Railway • • •
y mulls:loners to insposr, the proposed line should be
allowed to meow his report up'o the proof of the standing
(411eass with reference to the deposited plaits and sec-
ti. The next object contemplated by the proposed
Bill referred to the duty of the Commissioners. In
The 13,11 passed in the last session of Parliament, ap-
poainting the Board of itailway Conontssioilers, it was arranged
.r4lewapyowllerilsls bro,,glA
oocarrossooners
.l,hat the ; ; should report to the House upon the
before them. It was neeessary that
shooid be given to them authorizing them to
theca,
persona before themselves or officers appointed by
t_nrn, with reference to the objections to the intended line of
railway, and ale'a as to the mode of entering upon the lards of
the proprietors.. Be did not propose, indeed he thought it
examine
that enuesel should not be allowed to be heard or to
—amine witnesses before the Commissioners on behalf of any
party,__(i Cheers.) The effect of admitting them would be to
s_°:tog the proceedings to suet' an extent that it would be
lutely impossible for the Commissioners to get through
the amount of business brought before there.—( Cheers. )
at benefits would also result from the examination of the
'°a Rineera and other witnesses, by impartial persons. The en-
Taeers supporting or opposing the scheme, would be examined
by fi:n impartiitely soonor, much c , and even more to the purpose,
.al ',henengineer by calling in all the expensive
'machinery of agents ao; counsel.—(Cheers.) It was pro-
posed that the Ilailwoy
Commissioners should have the power
to report to the House upon all those subjects which were at
present
decidtsd upon and reported by Committees of the
,House, referring to, the amount of tolls or fares, the
natureengineer-
s_isogoarruet.tsr
io of the line, the amount of capital required for the
Construction
iH of the railway,the number of shares, and the
powers of boowing money to be granted to the company.
e thought
great deal that this report would be of great use to the
Committee aripointed to consider the merits of the Bill, as a
avoided, 41f.
*unnecessary and useless inquiry would thereby he
question might arise as to how far the report of the
Ccuurals'..a A oners should have weight, and he proposed to regu-
late t'oe authority which it should have, not by the
811, 'out by the standing orders of the House. At the same
tire,. he would mention, that in all matters relating to
ear igineeriog and surveying, the report of the Commissioners
milsould be held to bu prima acre conclnsiVe on any point that
-might be raised, and lie believed that this would be the means
'of saving the Committee a great deal of trouble, and the parties
:a great deal i expense. He said prinso facie conclusive, be-
cause
clue...dons might arise where additional information would
be absr:iutely necessary, and if so, he would advise that the
CoOomittee should, in such cases, report to the House that this
'cars required, and that instruction! should be given to the Com-
alaissioners to furnish it. With regard to questions of fact,
*hich might be the subject of dispute, he proposed that either
Party might complain, and have the Bill referred back to the
'Commissioners, and if the complaint shonld turn out unfounded
!hat the parties so applying should bear the expenses
Ills object in introducing this provision, was to prevent frivo-
(4la objections. With regard to fares and tolls, this was a n 1-
4E-et which was the occasion of frequent difficulties before the
Uerarnittees formerly appointed to consider railway Bills. The
Cs who appeared before them in opposition to the schemes
no interest in this matter, and no party represented the in-
terests of the public. The Committee themselves had no in-
tformation as to what the charges were in other parts of the
'country, or on other railways, and consequently no data to
guide them in coming to a decision. The Commissioners,
therefore, who would have all this information, would be in a
Position to render the most essential service to the Committees
on this point. Thera was also a subject of very great impor-
tance to which he viould now refer—he meant the raising of
VtPital, borrowing money, amalgamating with and leasing other
lines of railway. The Hon. Member for Coventry, who hap-
pened to be Chairman of a Committee, had some time since
called the atOenti in of the Reuse to the subject in consequence
of a very ,objectionable case of this nature coming before his
as le°lllmittets ; and in tt.e report which he presented to the House
.. vea s
should surgested that some general regulation fur this. subject
h e adopted. By the regulation row proposed the sug-
festion then made would be carried into effect : one point had
e6ll strongly urged upon him nut only by some railway pro-
tro,_'tt^rss but by some parties' who represented the public, which
-"al. that the Commissioners should retain in their power
veto Upon all proposed railways. He gave that point great
consideration, and he was bound to say that he could not con-
cur in it. Lit him suppose that they retained it with respect
to those bills vvhicti had not any merit. The power would be
Of rio use whatever, as these Bills would fall of themselves
to the ground. Suppose, then, that they exercised their veto
freely on other Bills, it appeared to hint that they should be
assuming the; functions of Parliament ; and, looking to the
cireurnstanrses of this country, and considering the feelings of
the
be peoples he doubted whether a board so constituted would
approved of. There was another question urged upon
them, namely, whether powers should be granted to future
zcot:panies in perpetuity or for a term of years. The latter prac-
the prevailisd in France, bat he wished to observe that
railways in that country stood in a different position from
their railvrayn, for they were laid out and surveyed, and a large
portion of the works executed by Government. So that the
railway preprivtors stood nearly in the relation of occupying
tenants under: the Government. If they were now, for the
ant time, tc, exercise the power of permitting the construction
of railways, it might be a question for consideration as to how
they s'aould proceed, but they were differently situated.
Almost all the great lines had been constructed and granted in
perpetuity ; and the question now was, how they should act
with future companies—whether powers should be
'granted in perpetuity, or for a term of years. He
ewes afraid that if they adopted the latter course
they would e.ecite a feeling of jealossy, and cause an inquiry in
other ways which it would not compensate. By imposing such
41 restriction, it might be the means of sacrificing more import-
ant objects, a rid he did not, therefore, think it proper for the
Commission, re to have such a power. With regard to limiting
the rate of in iterest on the dividends of railway companies, be
thought that if they proposed a restriction on the interest, in-
stead of indu. cing economy it would cause extravagance • for,
by the preset it restriction, numerous situations were filled, and
nnneeessary etxperlditure created, which would be avoided if no
limitation vitiated. Besides, he believed that this would
be beginn'ting at the wrong end, as a means to
economy. They should begin by regulating the
fares and tolls Pto be charged, and by seeing that the public
obtained fair .accommodation at a fair price. He came now to
the second part of the subject—the fares and tolls. With
respect to the oh he proposed that the power of fixing them
should be gran tted for a term of years. 7he fares and tolls that
"night new be fair might cease to be so in a few years, from
altered circus 'stances ; and the period he thought of proposing
was ten year! . He did not mean to say that at the expiration
of that time they should be thrown open for Parliament to
lower them tit any rates it might please, but he thought it right
that the pow; r should be given to revise them, and to bring them
to the same s date as when they were first imposed. The object
by such an ar rangemont, was to act fairly towards the public
at the end of t his period, as altered circumstances might render
necessary. Another great question now arose as to existing
railway compa vies which had received their Bills, not subject
to this alterati-ma. There was also another class of Acts not
so subject, but the companies who promoted them had lately,
when applying,- for new powers, made them amenable to any
alteration that. might be proposed. This course had already
been taken with regard to cheap trains by the Hon. Member
for Tam worth. With regard to that class of railway companies,
he proposed to make it a condition, if they came to Parliament
for an e 'tension of powers, that the power of limiting the tolls
on their. main line, in addition t. the branch line or extensions,
should also be conceded. In that case the question would
be set sit rest, as far as they were concerned, in the same way
as if th e whole railway Bill had been brought forward for the
first tame. There might be some railway, not in the last
categcn7 ; but it was proposed, with respect to all railways,
that th e power of revision of fares sod tolls should be vested in
Parliraaent in the way he had described, and that they should
contir sue to keep it in their hands. Another alteration he pro-
Posed, was, that when any change was to he made by any rail-
way company in the tolls and fares, that due notice of it should
beg iven to the Commissioners on Railways and the public, as
great inconvenience had resulted from this omission ; and such
an %Iteration would be productive of no injury either to the
company or to the public. He also proposed that the come
Patsy should give their reasons to the commissioners for
tb e change, as they might furnish useful suggestions for
the commissioners, when making their report on this subject to
Parliament. In making these observaticeis he had ne inien-
ti on to reflect en the great railway interests. As far as he
k new, it was by increasing their traffic and accommodating the
p•ublic that they would be promoting their own advantage, and
far believed that with many of them the wishes of the commis-
sioners would be anticipated by the companies themselves. He
:hoped and believed that this would be the case, but that did
.net make it the less necessary that the public should have
some better security, and the Commissioners would not be doing
their duty to the public if they did rot see that some such control
:be established. It would be also for the benefit of the railway
companies themselves ; for suppose three out of four companies
agreed to adopt a reduced system of fares and tolls, and the
fourth refused to submit to any reduction ; it was obvious that
the
public
companieswould have
he
have
robbed
right toh by
complain
railwayand the
ecompany n
otheriy threewh who
took advantage of the increased tilea thought e on their railways in
consequence of the reduced rates. it right, there-
fore, to retain the power of revising the fares and tolls
ten years. With regard to the charges to the forPost-
office
every
the conveyance
. of the mails, he thought that the system
of arbitration now adopted should be changed, and that
distinct and definite charges should be made for this service.
The measures which he proposed on this point of the subject
were these—that the Commissioners should, in concert with
the Post-office authorities, require the railway companies to
furnish the sates at which they would carry the snails, and
that the scales of charges should be reported on by the Com-
missioners int the same way as they proposed to do with respect
to fares and tolls. But, as the circumstances might vary, they
had no obj, cation to limit the period, for
fire
to which the
years. The the companies
should he compelled to carry the mails
next point, namely, the punctuality of trains, was a very im-
portant one. He thought it was one on which both the publi-
and the railway companies were equally interested. He hac
beard from gentleman who had much capital invested
in railways, that their local traffic constituted a
very important part of their receipts ; certainly the quantity of
local traffic de pended very much on speed and punctuality, but
at the same tame, it must be obvious that it was a difficult
question to deal with, and it was impossible that the Legisla-
ture could pretend to take measures to force companies to
arrive at stated places at stated hours. They could only be
brought to make the trains run punctually by bringing pub-
licity and public opinion to bear upon their proceedings in
this respect. It was proposed, however, by the Bill, that all
railway companies should be required to keep suspended at
such stations as the Commissioners might direct a list of the
arrival and departure of every troin. He believed this was
ordinarily done for their own benefit, so that not much addi-
tional trouble would be imposed upon the companies
or upon their officers ; and it was also pro-
posed that, fur the benefit of the public as well
as of the companies, that these time lista should be sus-
pended in a situation where the public might see them, and
where they might check them ; and also that, after a certain
time, they shouiti be fort s iriled to the Commissioners, midi !not
they should make aft annual report to Parliament of the specd
of the different trains throughout eountry, galling the atotto
tion of Parliament to the punctuality or want of punctuality in
the different trains run by the different companies, and their
influence upon the safety of the public. There was grater

Mr. GOULBURN said that there could be
paper reason why railway compannies should not raise loans
system
possibles
upon
good securities ; but his objection was, that the
gave them the facility of using what was a sort ot* present
erteinren-
lation in the country, which led to very manifest inconvenience.
i
He had not heard the latter portion of the Right Hon.
Member's speech, and it was very likely that he had made
some observations respecting this point which he had not the
good fortune to hear. He believed that it was one of material
importance not only as affecting the railway companies them-
selves, but the financial arrangement of the country itself.--
(hear, hear.)
Mr. B. DE SON said that, he obj,'cted to such a power
ac the veto being plgead band, '°Y ~,hteboover,
and he was quite sure that Parliament would not consent to
part with such a prerogative. On the whole, he was favour-
able to the measure, which he cousidered would effect Tell be.

l neleial results. He desired to know whether the Board could 1 Government would have in getting back the money from the
not take under its consideration the Bills of the present year— landlords, he (Mr. Grattan) need only remark that a great
( Hear, hear)—for the most valuable part of the proposition portion of the Irish landlords were insolvent, or nearly so.
was that portion which would remove the impediments that He knew of one with an income of 7000/. a year who had to
existed in the proper mode of deciding upon Bills. He con- pay in London 6000/. interest, and of another with an
sidered that it would be well to bring the parties face to face; income of 20,0001. a year, who could not cut a stick on
it was the not adhering to such a practice which engendered his plantations without leave by a letter from Lincoln's Inn-
distrust in the decisions of the Board of Trade, and that Board gelds. As he had already observed, the Irish Members would
would be in existence still had it pursued such a system. He be sent back to make laws for Ireland, as the British Perna-
believed that there was still abundance of time. The compa- ment for the last 47 years had been trying to cure the patients,
ries would be quite content to wait until after Easter. but as yet had failed in giving the necessary relief. He could
Mr. HODGSON hoped that there would be no delay in not give his support to the series of measures proposed by the
passing the Bilts for the present session. Government, and must support the Bill of the Noble Lord, the
Mr. FEli RAND said that he had not had the pleasure of Member for Lynn.
hearing the statement of the Right Honourable Member, but Lord JOHN RUSSELL—The Hon. Gentleman the
he wished to thaw the attention of the House to a case of a Member for Limerick and the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
railway in his own neighbourhood. An unopposed company the Member for the University of Dublin has asked
received the sanction of the Legislature. It crossed through a the Noble Lord, the Member for Lynn, to postpone his Bill,
densely crowded district, and crossed five or six turnpike roads which stands the first °flier of the day, being a Bill for con-
ies= a level. The place to which he alluded ,yas Keigh- structing railways in Ireland. I rise to state that I shall be
ley, end the railway passed within one huteiree no 'Arty to that arrangement, and to express my wish that he
suds of that crowded town, where there were hun- should proceed Inmediately with his measure, as it now stands
Ctreds waiting every morning to enter into the nem for the second reteling. or if he thinks it is too late to take it
Wuch a proceeding was most dangerous, and the company this evening, I shall eive way to him to-morrow.—( Cheers. )
ought to be compelled to erect bridges wherever they crossed a This is the course I recommend the Noble Lord to take, but
Issel. He would also draw attention to a case where he was this Ido object to—l object to the Bill being postponed by
sufferer to an extent of 4,000". or 5,0001. Ile was tenant which you will hold In abeyance other measures re-
of an estate over which the very same line ran, for two qu i red in the present most critical state of the country.—
miles. The railway company were compelled to give notice of ( Hear, hear. ) What is the plan which the Legislature
their intention of applying for an Act, and then it would be in is called upon to admit, and the course which the Government
Ilia power to appear against them; but the tenant for life could under the circumstances ought to take 2 My Noble Friend, in
make a bargain behind his back, which would deprive him of the brie:zing forward his motion, has stated that it is no party
sum which he had stated. tie wrote to the directors, but they motion, but that it is one which he believes is calculated to
allowed a full month to elapse before he received an answer advance the interests of Ireland. Ido not agree with the Noble
...id then he got one, declining to enter into the subject, and Lord, as Ido not think that it would do so, and do nut look upon
finishing off with wishing him all the compliments of the it as see h. But, Sir, lam obliged to say, that with the views
season. He did not find fault with the railway directors, but I take of the general policy of the Government and the finances
with the careless legislation of the House, of the country, I cannot give my consent to the measure
Mr. ii UDS: 'N wished that the proposition of the Right proposed by the Noble Lord —( Hear, hear. ) I cannot,
don. Member should receive the patient and calm considera- Sir, feel that the Goverment ought to take ui on
eon which it well deserved. But the Hon. Member fur itself the application of such a large sum for railways. When
Kriareaborough (Mr. Ferrand) might calm his apprehensions I take into consideration the distress which prevails, and the
tor accidents on the lines which he had described were less circumstances under which we are called upon to administer
common than on others. He considered that the Bill pro- relief. In my opinion, we would not be enabled to give effect
paced to effect too much—indeed, much more than he thought to those measures of 'did which the circumstances of
the Honourable Member would be able to effect. Ireland require, and meet the urgent and extensive distress
There was another point he wished to refer to, namely, pone- that prevails if we give our assent to the present measure. I
reality of trains. He was quite sure the only effect of inch a am obliged to say that the granting of 16,000,000/. for the
supervision would be to reduce the speed on railways, because purpose of constructing railways in Ireland, under such
it was quite impossible with the casualties of weather, always circumstances, would not be consistent with the
to keep time. Still he did not complain of this proposed in- policy of the Government, or the interests of the
terfcrence. Parliament, no doubt, had a perfect right to country.—( Hear, hear.) If it were a small sum, there might
undertake such a measure, Parliament occasionally had little be some hesitation ; but when the Legislature is asked to ad-
to do, and he did not deny that it had the privilege of amusing vance this large sum of money, I am obliged to say that I
itself in this way.—(Hear, and laughter.) Certainly, how- think it is the duty of the Government and the House to re-
ever, this was not a march in the onward direction. Then, ject the plan of the Noble Lord, as not consistent with the
again, it was proposed to revise the tolls every ten years, arid financial circumstances of the country. Sir, if the House
no fares were to be reduced without the sanction of the Corn- pleases to go forward with the discussion, the Chancellor of
missioners. the Exchequer and myself will state the reasons why
Mr. STRUTT—No; not to raise them without previous we cannot give our consent to the measure ;
notice. but, on the present occasion, all I ask you to
Mr. HUDSON said that certainly was an improvement; do is, to adopt one of two courses, either to bring the
but Parliament had already fixed the rates of railway corn- question to a decision at once, that the House may know, that
panics, and, surely, if they did not exceed that rate, companies the Government may know, and that the country may know
had a right to revise their tells, provided they did not go what is the policy on which you intend to proceed—( Hear,
beyond the mark without previous notice. The Right Hon. hear),—or if you do not adopt Ova course, to give up the plan
Gentleman complained that a particular company raised its km the present.—(Hear, hear.) In asking you to adopt this
fares without notice. He had often reduced his fares without course, Ido not state that the Government will not at any
notice, and, doubtless the company in question, had acted future time support any similar plan ; but on the
upon the same principle. He could only say, on behalf of the other hand, I do not say that in the progress
interest he had the honour to belong to, that the Bill should of the present session any large or extensive
have their best consideration, and the Government might rely scheme of railways will be proposed. Ido not desire to induce
feet and
nd beneficial
MANGLES a s
cpoouslsdi b
not le. ( t
refrain l e a r .
f)rom bearing his testi-
upon it, they should have his best assistance to make it as per- any one to vote against the measure of the Noble Lord the
FMreiemnbdetrbfaotr
bLey
willnn bat t Ilisdtoonsatyoftbheav:raeir)oigahits tom made
ek
tmoybNimobtlee
monyho the excellent statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman postpone his Bill After the address of the Noble Lord the
the First Commissioner of Railways, but in saying thus much Member for Newark, Ido hope that there will be no postpone-
he did not wish to commit himself to all the details of this merit, and that either the measure will be given up or a decision
Bill. He did not view it with so much jealousy as the Right taken on it at once. J have no desire to deter the plan
Hon. Gentleman the Member for Sunderland. He could being carried into effect, if the House and the country so Be-
speak for the Gentlemen with whom he had the ho- sire it, and they think it to be advantageous ; all I ask ews
nour to be connected in the direction of the Lon- the decision of the House, or that the measure be abandoned
don and North Western Company, and he knew for the present.—( Cheers. )
it was their anxious wish that there should be some Mr. OSBORNE thought that the statement of the Noble
stringent superintendence exercised over them on the part of Lord was well worthy the consideration of the House.—( Hear,
the Government. They had always maintained the position hear.) At the same time he was of opinion that they ought
that it was not by competition that the affairs of a railway coin- not to postpone the consideration of a great monetary question,
pan}' could be best regulated. but by a strong superintendence like that brought forward by the Noble Lord, the
exercised over them by Government. He wished to know Member for Lynn, for even a fortnight. Many most
whether, in the case of competing lines, the Commissioners important interests in the country would be deeply
would report to which they gave the preference. It was ins- affected if a question like this were to remain in a
portant that this should be done : it was well done by the late state of uncertainty fora
thefor amzu elne tHe (Mr. Osborne) would
Board of Trade, and had its decisions been adhered to the evils support the motion
ehebtehardee of m Lord,the
hae-
nut only for these rea-
tht
been averted.
and mischiefs which they had recently wituessed would have ssoutries,s,bburt,bmegcbatusfeurhwearadlsobybtehlieevNetlbtlheaLtenrodneatof
of public works for Ireland. It should be
Mr. STRUTT said he believed, in the course of his address, Government, would be of any value, if unsupported by a great
he had stated that the Railway Board, in reporting upon and useful scheme
of
With re- pulation of Ireland would be out if employment. He would
lines submitted to their decision, would report upon remembered that by the month April, the agricultural po-
the concurrent merits of competing lines.
Bard to a point alluded to by the Hon. Member for support the motion
Knaresborough, he could only state, that in the case of a level would support it, because
wasteful system he believed it would put au end to
erossirg, all the power the Commissioners possessed was to the of the Noble Lord, for another reason, he
l
of expenditure at, present pursued in that
authorise companies to erect bridges in the event of their country. He had listened with great satisfaction to the Noble
I electing to do so. The Right Hon. Gentleman the Member Lord when he introduced his measure, and if the Noble Lord
for Sunderland had made some observations on the proposed would enter into the discussion of the question, he (.Ir. Os-
revision of tolls; and in answer to those observations, he could borne) would endeavour to prove, in his humble way, that it
only say that that revision would be made upon the same prin- would be infinitely better to lay out motley in really useful
ciple that revisions were made by the Acts of Parliament public works, instead of leading it to the holders of property in
themselves, and a due regard would be paid to the interests of Ireland.
the company as well as the interests of the public. With re- An How. Mamma, whose name we could not ascertain,
spect to the punctuality of trains, he did not expect, by any thought it would be bad policy in Irish Members to press the
supervision, that the extreme time could always be kept ; but Noble Lord, the Member for Lynn, to postpone his measure, and
still it was highly desirable that the public should know which he would blether say that if they did not support the Noble Lord
lines were most punctual, and which lines were less exact in now, they deserved not to have the opportunity of doing so
their times.—( Hear, hear.) afterwards.—( Hear, hear.)
Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. Mr. PIERCE BUTLER said that the Irish members had,
RAILWAYS (IRELAND) BILL. after the most anxious consideration, agreed almost unanimously
On the motion of Lord JOHN RUSSELL, that the orders to communicate their sentiments to the Noble Lord, the Mem-
of the day be now read, ber for Lynn, that be should postpone his motion to a future
Mr. S. O'BRIEN rose and said he had to request that the period. The Hon. Member who had spoken last had done so
Noble Lord the Member for Lynn would postpone his measure in rather severe terms, for he said that if they pressed this post-
respecting railways in Ireland, and, in a few words, he would ponement on the Noble Lord, they would ae in a manner
state his grounds for doing so. Only a week had elapsed since inimical to the interests of Ireland. Two Irish Members had
the measure came before the House, anti it was perfectly already spoken on the one side, and two on the other, and it
obvious that the public in Ireland would have had no oppor- remained for him to give the casting rote.—(Laughter.) He
trinity of expressing their opinion upon it. It was due to the was not disposed to tell the secrets of the prison-house.—(Hear,
importance, of the question, and particularly to their consti- beer.) It was not his business to do so—(Laughter)—but at
tuents, that an opportunity should be afforded them of express- the office in Dowsing- street, where Irish Members attended in
ing their views upon the measure. But he did not think it obedience.—(Cries of " Oh, oh," and roars of laughter, much
fair that this measure should be prematurely pressed increased by the Hon. Member's apparent unconsciousness
forward. It was notorious that Government had staked its of the cause.) He was not going to mention anything
existence upon the issue of this division, and therefore the cots- which would be reprehensible—(Roars of laughter)—but he
sequence would be, that should the House decide adverse to had, at least, a right to speak as to what had occurred after-
the views of the Government, there would then be a wards—(Cheers;—among the Irish representatives.—(Coo-
change
more especially as the Noble
of Ministers. The consequence of that step would he tinned cheering.) He believed he had a per feet right-....
to throw into confusion measures that were of the most urgent ( Cheers)—to state what occurred,
came
importance to the poor of Ireland. The House must be aware Lord, the Member for Lynn, was not present on that occasion.
that there were Bills before them at the present moment upon The Irish Members met in conclave—(Laughter)—and
e to this
which depended the existence of many thousands of to this conclusion, almost unanimously 1 they
to a more
con-
their fellow-countrymen in Ireland, and even for elusion, that under all the circumstances, it would be desirable
the sake of obtaining a permanent good, they that the Noble Lord should postpone his measure „
was
ought not to pay as the penalty the loss of human life. He convenient opportunity.—(Laughter and cheers.) hie
was in hopes that this measure would not have been discussed merely giving a simple narration of facts.—(Laughter. and
as a party question, but rather that the Noble Lord the Mem- cheers.) He had not, up to that moment, expressed any
ber for the city of London would have considered it as a mea- opinion of his own upon the question. They came to that ton-
sure for social improvement which did not require him to stake elusion, and in the most respectable manner Conveyed their
the existence of the Government upon the issue. He had sentiments to the Noble Lord, the Member for Lynn. Th9'
hoped that the Noble Lord would have been prepared to ac- had subsequently been led to believe that the Noble Lord,
quiesce in the general wish of the House, and have adopted the musk courteous manner, conveyed to them that
some measure of this kind. For himself, he had no was willing, in the present most momentous period,.
hesitation in saying that if Government would bring to concede to the wishes of the Irish Meuabers. He (IT'
forward a proposal which upon the whole appeared Butler) would not have risen on that occasion had he
to be more desirable than that propounded by the Noble Lord, not seen the extraordinary predicament in which the Noble
the Member for Lynn, he should support the proposition of Lord, the Member for Lynn was placed, two Irish Members
the Government, rather than that of the Noble Lord. In his having called upon him to postpone, and two to go on with his
opinion this measure was calculated to give immediate employ_ motion. Now, as an individual, ere was no Irish Member
hein
ment and relief to hundreds of the Irish people, without involv- more indisposed—(Laughter)—to go on with the question at
ing any loss either to this country or to Ireland ; and he asked the present time than himself, because he always desired to sup-
the Noble Lord hew they were to act when such a measure was port the present Government. He conceived that the measure
placed in junta-position with a system of a temporary expediency of the Noble Lord was calculated to raise the unfortunate
which would impose upon this country and upon Ireland, a country with which he had the honour of being connected.,
large outlay of public money, without the slightest hope of a re• from the state of misery and mendicancy into which
turn. He had no hesitation in stating that he should it had fallen ; and however adverse he might be
give his support to the Noble Lord, and therefore to the Noble Lord bringing forward his moti
"
he did not wish there should be any question or that time, still, as he had pledged himself on a formerhesitation as to the course he was prepared to take. occasion to support it, he felt it his duty to do so on that ee-
rie believed such would be the position of a considerable casion. if the Noble Lord pressed it to a division. He was,
number of the Irish members who were disposed to support 44 a Member of that House, and as a gentleman' unwiltiniegetmo
the Noble Lord. He was anxious therefore that it should be compromise his character in any way, and he wouldh:oevrern.
postponed for the present. his pledge, even although unwilling to vote against a .
Mr. SHAW concurred in what had fallen from his Hon. merit which, he believed, had done its best torrelive the
Mr.
:fiend who had just sat down, and cordially joined him in miseries of Ireland. The House would see that
considered if
asking the Noble Lord to postpone the measure. He had prepared with a set speech—( Laughter)— but he
id neither
on a former occasion supported the measure of the late Noble this question were now pressed to a division, itst,l.
i and the
Lord (the Chief Commissioner of Woods and Forests), for be more nor less than the old fight between the vv g
Why', if the
extending railways in Ireland. With respect to the measure Tories.—(Cries of "Oh I oh.") Was it not?
Id have a
of his Noble Friend, the Member for Lynn, he ( Mr. Shaw) Noble Lord carried his motion they w",,-
h Noble
hoped the Government would think favourably of it, and if change of Government.—( Hear, hear.) i
had stated that
they did not adopt it, at least bring forward a similar plan. Lord at the head of the Government
h a carried this
But' if the question came before the House in the shape of an if the Noble Lord the Member fur
lith was for the
alternative, either to reject the Bill or put out the Govern- measure the Government will retire,
and
dld occasion, and
merit, he was not prepared to press forward the plan, or to House to consider the delay which this would
of thousauds.
vote in its favour. At the same time he would the fact that the Irish were dying by hundredsu:tened to any dis-
be prepared to support it, if brought forward under other cir- Mr. M. J. O'CONN ELL had never
First of all, there
• cumstances. Seeing the constitution and state of that House, cussion with more pain than the present._ Members,
and he
and the awful state of Ireland, he trusted the Noble Lord, the was a division of opinion between the owedIrh
the miseries of
Member for Lynn, would propose the further consideration of was sorry to say that to divisions they
come to a dis-
the Bill ; particularly as that course would enable the House their country. He trusted that if theywould hetv
od's measures they
and the country to give it a full examination, apart from all cussion on the principle of the Noble
L siderations, and the
party motives.—(Hear, hear.) While he recommended that would disembarrass it from all other c
course, he trusted the result would be that her Majesty's important questions which were
atiMiecobers representing
Government would listen to the prayer of the people of Ireland, with it. He had hoped hat Hon.
d in the couree
and bring forward either this or a similar measure. —( Hear.) his country would have been ogre: h.d trusted that
There would be nothing derogatory to the character of the they intended to pursue, and
topic
which had nothing
Government in their doing so. While he hoped the Noble they would not have introduced any
tlOl
n whether the measure
"neent mixed up
Lord at the head of the Government would be prepared :with whatever to do with the mere slues ht with respect to what
some measure of this kind, he could not conceal his sentiments, should be postponed or not. He thouge. •
e- dof tile esovernment,
' that, under present circumstances, it would be better to post- had fallen from the Noble Lord at the
es
pone the measure. In conclusion, he trusted the Noble Lord he (Mr. J. O'Connell) could not half
ipmr e. s s
Irishhi s regret
Members that
, er hardl fair to those
the Member for Lynn would say at once whether he would the Noble Lord had acted in a
therefore, was very diffi-
postpone his Bill or not.—( Hear, hest.) they had to choose
'oration ,
Mr. H. GRATTAN said he would express his views on were placed in an embarrassing
rstiien,
the subject under consideration without any disguise whatever, between two evils, and their re°,re was a chance of it, let the
meresevere.--
Hon Members who wished to zurpaorrtnehz.
as he did not recognise any leadership in the matter. He cult. He would still say,
isasure, but he was afraid his re-
intended to vote for the measure of the Noble Noble Lord postpone his.
session ; for, as on
Lord, the Member for Lynn. For twenty years quest would be of no avail'
of
that which had been urged by
Parliament had been attempting to do something, the Noble Lord at the he, d
„,TINCK said that however painful
yNo change had come never till the present time had anything effectual been done. Lord GEORGE Hos'obliged ws to take on the subject
They had heard that the people of Ireland were dying by was the course which
heuld be compelled to
of the Government.
thousands, and there were two doctors who were prescribing before the House he well..
over the
for the disease. The question, therefore the had to coneitter (Cheers and counter chee
—those was, which of the plans recommended were the b of his dream
1, s ssion, he and the friends who acted with
of the Government, or the measures
by the late Mr. Drummond as the best means tit
Friend the Member for Lnn referred Hon the first day of teeee the impression that this •
H proposed . . .
continued inwas a question
e decidedly p the him still con
latter prescription, as it ways on. which of the dearest to the interests of Ireland. It
e had been recommended which was one
lock this afternoon that he had received a
Ireland. Since the yearf of th
signed by thirty- our elrish Members of both
1835, Committee after co • g requisition,
r ~., mmittee
had sat on the question, and many ostpenc the second reading. The refusal to
reports had been Houses, to p
four
oesineethe first day of the.
' they made to him certainly
made in favour of railways for Ireland proposition which gave him
; but adopt the
be recollected tbat th -
as yet, no plan had been followed up. The House, and great pain. Bat it should .
d. e pro essed object
England, owed a debt to Ireland, and he trusted the Noble ofthe Ministry was to give imam tate relief to Ireland, and
Lord, the Member for Lynn, would exact it by pushing forward and the friends who acted with him were quite
his although he
spirit
sintonlst
object, yet they quite
his Bill. If the Bill Was carried into effect, he was persuaded it anxious to carry out that . were equally anxious
would occasion a great saving of money, while it would do much to meet the views of Ministers!."° to act in accordance with
for the permanent improvement of Ireland. Since he had the proposal now before the tiouse. His friends had been
come into the House, he had received accounts of a most summoned from all parts of England, Scotland, and the Con-
shocking character. Fever it seemed was spreading in the tinent ; but although they were_ prepared to act, yet he did not
north of Ireland, in Lurgan, Longford, and many other hesitate to say that they
:Members and
their own conve-
-1 'es and it was expected to extend to Sligo. It nience to that of the Irish
cl eh rs the Government, and
p at. ,
was his opinion that they should send all the Irish would not suffer their own .eelings to weigh against
. _ the public
members back, as he believed they did no good by remaining interest. He regretted the more, therefore, to see the result
consideration • they
here. Now to the next point under • had of the meeting hF •
- at t e oreign-office that day.
that in the
to decide between the measures of the Government, and the They should recollect, Speech of her
day of the
plan of the Noble Lord,session, that
Let them take the Destitute Per- there an especial recommendation to talc
the Government propose? . . . was.. Astatement c the affairs of
sons' Bill. On that Bill it was proposed to raise a million and a Ireland into confederation. was made that in the
nl 500,000 J., as a million absence of all political excitement, there was a
half; but this amounted in reality to o y .
' ld le
d an opportunity for
This sum was togiven through devising such measures as wou to thepermanent had been already expended. Th
that - Il d'd hope th . advan •
t_ at thes
pian
the means of the landlords. Was hat any measures pro-
House On the other hand, posed from his side of the House, would have
ought to act upon?
the Noble L without is. •and he
ord, any party bias s was, therefore, ve been received
let them take the plan of
.efore, both surprised
generally admitted that rail- and grieved at finding that this subject was to be made a battle
the Member for Lynn. It was
should be in- of
that they
ways conferred great advantages, and the consequences,
to do so. The he felt compelled to persevere in
troduced into Ireland. This plan proposed his present motion ;
but that the and if any difficulties should
Noble Lord did not ask for 16,000,0001. at once,
.._ _
~ arise, whatever those
order to carry difficulties might be, not upon his head, butthe head of
money should be advanced from time to time, in upon
of this the Noble Lord, must rest the r
the works into execution. While such was the naturehelm,esponsibility of those results
Government should the Ministry desert the
proposition, the Noble Lord at the head of the Under these circuen-
asked stanese, he telt that ho should not
fur powers-through which he told them he would
tthibe doing his duty to his
Mende if he diO. irot persevere iis
have to expend 6,00,0,000/. before the month of A t s motion.--(Cheers, and
gettiltsli crtinter-cheers eontiutiell int . •
neat, oithout leiSiree reproductively sinplovel, end ' y erruptml the speech of the Noble
of Lord, and the utmost mite
little prospect of getting back the money. But by the Bill , a relent pervaded the House during
the Noble Lord, the Member for Lynn, they had a chance of Ii is delivery.
getting the return. Ia order 0 show the difficulty the Mr. ROEBUCK thought that the Noble Lord himself had
.

been unfair, if any one had, in denying that the House did
not entertain the proper feelings on this question The Noble
Lord had accused the Mini-try of makir', this a party qnestion,
but if any one had done so, it was the Noble Lord who was
guilty of the charge, by stating that Government had made it
a party question and one solely resolveable into the convenience
of the Irish Members. The real question was, how was the
difficulty to be met? The people of England had been aqueesed
until they were perfectly dry. This was not a time for
mincingeatl they
phrases,
we
were now
the
boundlanguage to speak
truth. Memberh
H,
for
Meath, s
meant to follow that example, and do as the
Honourable Member for Limerick had done, tell the House
that this was merely a plausible pretence for the relief of
Ireland. The object presumed was the immediate relief of
Ireland, and yet the Noble Lord was pressing this measure to
a division to-night in the face of three Bills now lying on the
table of the House. Those who had no historic appeals to
make could well understand the object of the Noble Lord the
Member for Newark (Lord John Manners), who, the other
night, made such an urgent appeal for the people of Ireland.
There was evidently a split in the camp, and this proceeding
was only a stop gap to prevent its being known. Here they
had • great party. The Noble Lord called it "my party"—
( Cheers and laughter)—a great party, called from al. quarters
of the globe, giving no regard to thei: private convenience,
called together to bring this great question about, affecting,
as it did, all the financial and commercial concerns of
the country. There was not a monied man connected
with the monetary interest of the country who would not tell
them that while this great question concerning 16,000,000/. or
17,000,0001. hung over his head his hands were tiod up, and it
was of vital importance that it should be settled. Therefore he
said, as one who felt an interest in the well being of his
country, that it was the duty of the Noble Lord to bring it to
an immediate termination ; and glad he was that, in spite of
Irish convenience, the Noble Lord was forced to do so.—
(Cheers. )
Lord GEORGE BEN TINCK then moved that the second
reading be adjourned till to-morrow. (Cries of "Oh oh," " Go
on, go on," " Divide, divide.")
Lord JOHN RUSSELL bad no objection to proceed with
the Bill to-morrows, but he trusted the House would take the
third reading of the Destitute Persons (Ireland) Bill first.
The second reading was then adjourned till to-morrow (this
day.) _ _ _

AMERICAN NEWS.

SEVEN DAYS LATER.
(FROM OUR CORRESPONDENT.)
LIVERPOOL, THURSDAY EVENING.
By the arrival of the packet-ship Queen of the West,
from New York, from which city she sailed on the 23d
instant, we have papers to that date inclusive, being
seven days later than that brought by the Yorkshire,
on Friday last. The steam-ship liibernia had not
reached Boston on the 21st, but was hourly expected.
Two packet-ships, the Rochester, from Liverpool, and
the Quebec, from London, had arrived at New York ;
each takes out two days later news. The papers before
us do not contain any very important intelligence, and
that portion which refers to the war in Mexico has
been almost entirely anticipated by the arrival of the
West India mail. The New Orleans papers state that
no apprehension is new felt for General Worth's safety.
The Washington Union of December 19 contains the
following :
Dispatches have been received from General Taylor, dated
the 22d December, near Monterey, representing that he had
left that place on the 15th for Victoria, having previously
put in motion the troops destined for that point. At Monte-
morelos a junction was effected on the 17th with the 2d in-
fantry and 2d Tennessee regiment of foot from Camargo ; and
it was intended, with the whole force (3,50 men) to march,
on the 19th, for Victoria. But on the evening of his arrival
at Monternorelos, a dispatch arrived from General Worth,
commanding at Saltillo, with the intelligence that Santa
Anna designed to take advantage of the division of force
towards Victoria, and by a rapid movement:to strike a heavy
blow at Saltillo ; and if auccessfttl, then at General Wool's
force at Parras. Under these circumstances, and with no
means of judging bow far this information might be well-
founded, the General returned to Monterey with the regular
force, in order to be in position to reinforce Saltillo if neces-
sary. The volunteers under General Quitman, reinforced by
a field battery, were ordered to continue their march, and
effect a junction with General Patterson at Victoria, while
General Taylor returned to Monterey with General Twigg's
division, now increased by the 2d infantry.
In the meantime General Butler and General Wool being
advised by General Worth of a probable attack upon his po-
sition, moved rapidly to join him with all the available force
at Parras and Monterey, while orders were dispatched by Ge-
neral Butler to hasten up troops from the rear. The latter
General proceeded in person to Saltillo and assumed the com-
mand, agreeably to instructions which had been given him
by General Taylor before his departure to meet a case like
this.
General Taylor had proceeded beyond Monterey on his way
to Saltillo, when he was met on the 20th by a dispatch from
the post, announcing the early arrival of General Wool's co-
lumn, and also that the expected concentration and move-
ment of the Mexican troops upon that position had not taken
place—indeed, that their advanced posts had rather been
withdrawn. Deeming the force there, and soon to be at Sal-
tillo quite sufficient to repel any demonstration at this season
from San Luis Potosi, General Taylor did not think it worth
while to throw forward General Twigg's division to that place,
and after resting it a day, designed putting it again in
march from Victoria, to which point he was to proceed
himself. _ _ _

General Patterson was supposed to be then well on his
march from Matamoras to Victoria, when his division, ex-
cept the Alabama rangers, in garrison at Tampico, will be
brought together. With a force holding in observation the
passes from Tula, the garrison at Tampico may be reduced
with advantage to the service.
The proceedings in Congress were unimportant. An effort
had been made in both Houses to try and bring the war in
Mexico to an end by negotiation, but what success ulti-
mately attended these peaceful movements we are not fully
informed. _ _

The papers by this arrival contain accounts of the opening
of the Alexican Congress and the President's Message, of
which the following is an extract :

MESSAGE OF THE MEXICAN ACTING PRESIDENT,
GENTLEZIEN REPRIMPTATIVES,-

The august act which we have assembled here to confirm
is, in solemn compliance with the grand national promise,
enveloped by the resolution of the month of August last.
With that confirmation ceases the precarious situation which
necessarily ensues between the destruction of one class of
political affairs and the establishment of a new one; and by
means of the body of representatives, elected by the people
themselves, by their own free choice, being charged with
the public safety, the nation is nowabout to decide its destiny
in this epoch of a terrible social crisis, when dangers of all
kinds threaten our nationality, and while there remains the
heart of every good Mexican a last hope that we shall finally
consolidate our political being.
Deeply filled with these patriotic sentiments, 33 a simple
citizen I give thanks to Providence that He has permitted
our reunion, and I give them with more fervency because, as
a public man, I have been permitted to fulfil the sacred pro-
mises which I gave in the capitol of Mexico, and now relieve
myself of the revolution without having deviated from one
of those principles which were so truly popular, or disap-
pointed one of those hopes which the unanimous enthusiasm
of the nation awoke. It remains for you to snake this revo-
lution the most grand and the most happy of any of our
political movements. In the short term which has passed
since August, having overcome my natural repugnance to
the exercise of power, and having been placed at the head
of the nation, my first object has been to sanction the war in
which we found ourselves compromised, and in the result of
which nothing less than the independence of our country
itself is involved. _ _ _

The army which united with the people and raised itself
to destroy those who usurped their sovereignty, and who
threatened the establishment of a foreign throne over our
country, after having completed the national movement,
marched to the spot where dangar called them, and are at
this day in front of the enemy, and under the command of
an illustrious soldier whom the republic called to the defence
of its nationality. A section of our troops were quickly dis-
patched to the reinforcement of the old army of the North,
and in the city of Monterey they awaited the attack of the
invaders. Congress already knows the fatal results of that
encounter, in which North American blood ran freely. The
chiefs who:there commanded our arms having. been sum-
moned to a court of inquiry, the nation remains satisfied,
and it is not for me now to comment upon the judgment of
the judicial tribunal.
But worse than all, this unfortunate event has thrown
into the power of the enemy one of the capitals of our states,
also a vast extent of territory, thus transferring the theatre
of the war into the heart of our republic. The Government,
undismayed by these disappointments, thought only of raising
new forces. The illustrious General Santa Anna, by an act
of his life which will cover him with imperishable honour,

(refused) to take upon himself the supreme command, but
marched at once to San Luis, where, in the space of a few
weeks, he united and organised an army of more than
22,000 men, sections of which have already thrown them-
selves before, and encountered the enemy ! On their part,
the Government of the United States, pledged as they are
to " conquer a peace," have given orders to General Taylor
that he should advance. Thus, then, another encounter be-
tween the two nations will soon take place.
From the valour and number of our troops, the enthu-
siasm and skill of their chief, and the justice of our cause,
we ought to expect a favourable result. But, however it
terminates, this action will neither be the last nor decisive.
Our country being invaded and occupied—not only the ter-
ritory in question, but a great part of that which never
belonged to Texas—whole states over which the sovereignty
of Mexico was never questioned ; enveloped in a war for
our race, and aggravated in a manner the most unjust and
atrocious which the mind can conceive of, our honour and
the welfare of our children—this sacred interest which
nations are not able to disregard—obliges us to sustain
the struggle, however prolonged and obstinate, until re-
spected for our valour and our constancy, we shall arrest
the immoral ambition of our northern neighbours, and make
sure the position of our race upon this hemisphere, peopled
for the greater part by them, and where at no distant day
their ardent and generous deeds will shine forth, brilliant as
the noon-day sun.
If great sacrifices are necessary for this strife, disgraceful
would it be to lose the whole for the false advantages of a
deceitful and fugitive peace. In a great crisis we are called
upon to give illustrious proofs of our power and virtue. Our
fathers fought for their independence eleven years, in a strife
always disadvantageous, spilling their blood at every mo-
ment. Thanks to their spirit we were raised from an humble
colony to the position of an independent nation. If Mexico
fights with constancy and intrepidity, her's will be the
triumph and the merited respect which she will acquire
among the other nations of the earth. Acting on these
I principles, the Government has not desired to receive any
propositions of peace ; the question of war remains submitted
to your decision, and the Government can only recommend
to Congress the urgent necessity of aiding the army with all
the resources necessary for the campaign.
The people of Mexico, who know and feel the magnitude
of the interests which are at stake in this war, will not refuse
their resources for its prosecution. The strife is not one of
those wars which pride so often engenders. It is the pheno-
menon of an object still more important and transcendental,
whose motives are in their nature similar to the causes, and
the extension of whose consequences it is difficult to conjec-
ture. The northern race has spread itself over this continent
with celerity and force, unexampled in all previous ages, and
now, in their growth, they threaten to extend themselves
over our territory and extinguish our race, establishing the
predominance of their own in its stead. This invasion will
produce the same results under the auspices of peace, as in
the days of war; and thus to make sure the permanency of
our race we have need of institutions which will promote our
solid growth and prosperity.
L Here the President leaves the subject of the war, and
goes on to review the political state of the country. He says,
that since the revolution of last August, all the states have
introduced the old constitution, finding that much the best.
He regrets the previous loss of their democratic institutions,
but rejoices that they now have a prospect of recovering
them. The choice of their officers and the laws of their
country, he is convinced, should be the sacred right of the
people. After portraying the great Mexican nation as it
once was, he describes it as it is now, and concludes as
follows :—]
I do not wish to sketch this melancholy picture, but
these calamities moved my Mexican heart; they in-
spired me with the resolution to place myself at the head
of the recent revolution, and to proclaim the return of the
democratic and liberal opinions, the only ones that can
make us respectable and happy. God knows, gentlemen,
that no ambitious wish enters into my views.
The power which necessity threw into my hands, has
been held by a continual sacrifice of my aspirations. I
have never harboured any thought or desire, except to
see my country the conqueror of its enemies, and to enjoy
in its bosom, the peace, the liberty, the glory which she
merits. I have believed that the meeting of this Congress
would signalise a happy epoch, and I bless this day, by
omuer
so much desired, on which, depositing the power in
sfiare
hands, nothing will impede nay road to thearmy,m to
their dangers, to fight like a soldier against
foes. On this day the nation enters into the
y country's
full exercise of
its sovereign rights.
The revolution has coma-
Gentleman Representatives,—
pleted that which it promises to the people. It remains
now for you to fulfil the hopes which the
which every
have con-
ceived; to make certain the prayers every Mexican
at this moment offers to Heaven for the prudence and for-
tune of their worthy representatives. Your patriotism, your
knowledge and your virtues are the best guarantees that
these sacred wishes will be fully satisfied.
MARIANO SALAS.

Mexico, Dec. 6, 1846.
His Excellency Senor Subieta, President of Congress,
replied as follows:
Most excellent Sir, The national represenatives have
heard with pleasure the solemn words which the Executive
has spoken. The chief of the glorious revolution of August
4th has manifested his satisfaction, to see the vote of the
people which was given at the capitol, complied with. The
representatives of the people desire to return, through me,
the most cordial response to the chief of the people's revolu-
tion. The element of democracy rules through the republic,
and I am able to give assurance that the fundamental laws
of the country will have for their übjzt, the ceminen welfare
of all, without yielding to the exaggerated pretensions of
the minority.

Truly difficult it is to commence this work at a time
when the powerful republic of the North insults, invades, and