The Sun.
London, England, 1824-06-26 00:00:00

MR. ROBERT GOURLAY.

It is known that.the .above-named Gentleman
has been in custody at Bellamy's Coffee-house, within the walls
of the House of Commons, since his assault upon M r. Brougham.
Yesterday, in consequence of the prorogation of Parliament, he
was, as a-matter of course, discharged ; but it had been thought
necessary in certain high quarters to have him still under coer-
cion, and a warrant for his apprehension was issued ,by the
Bow-street Magistrates, and put into the hands of Ellis, one
of the officers, who watched Mr. Gourlay from the House of
Commons, and followed him as far as Castle-court, Strand,
where he took him into custody. At half-past o'clock last
evening, he was brought into the public office, and underwent
a very long examination. He was accompanied by several
friends, and Sir George Tuthill and Dr. Monro were in attend-
ance, at the desire of the Secretary of State for the Home De-
partment. _ _ _

Ellis produced his warrant, which he placed before Mr.
HALLS, the presiding Magistrate, and deposed to. the fact of
apprehending Mr. Gourlay.
Thomas Gook was next called, and deposed, that oil Friday,
the 11th June, he was on duty, as a constable of Westminster,
in the lobby of the House of Conimons. About 10. minutes
roast four in the afternoon, he saw Mr. Brougham come into the
lobby on his way to the body of the House, and he had got as,
far as the first pillar, when Gourlay came close after him,
and struck him several bloWs on the shoulders and hat. Wit..
ness got' between them, and said to the defendant, " Sir, do
you know what you are doing ?"—" Yes," was the reply, " lie
has injured me." 11r. Brougham turned round and said—
" Who-is the man, I don't know him—what does he want ?"
Mr. Gourley said,-" You will remember my petition about two
years ago." He then took a card-case from his pocket and gave
Mr. Brougham a card, saying at the same time, " Let the dead
bury the dead, but do your duty, by me." Witness then spewed
his staff, and told Mr. Brougham that the defendant was in his
custody, and he would take care of him. Mr. Broughath de--
sired witness to take care of him; and to see that lie had no
fire-arms or other weapons, that he might do no harm to him-
self or any one else, for lie (Mr. B.) believed that he.was not
right in his mind. The defendant made no resistance; he said
he saw witness's authority, and most willingly subtpittea to it.
in a conversation atterWards, witness asked Min what he meant
by the remark " Let the dead bury the dead," and he said it
was in allusion to the case of the Missionary Smith, fixed that "
night for discussion; adding, that the dead wanted no care,
and the living certainly did. He readily gave up the whip,
and witness took a penknife from Isis pocket.
To questions from Mr. HALLS, the witness said, that taking
all the circumstances of the defendant's conduct, his conversa-
tion, and manners, into consideration, his opinion was at
that time that he was insane. Had since altered his mind
in consequence of some affidavits he had seen in the public
Papers:_

Mr. HALLS.—.Never mind what you have seen since. I
only want to know what your opinion was at that time.
Gook continued.—Mr. Gourlay said, he had had it some time
in centemplation to commit the assault upon 11r. Brougham.
The witness related some further conversation relating to facts
already before the public.
Mr. lIALLs told Mr. Gourlay he was at liberty to put any
question he pleased to the witness.
Mr. Gout lay—Witness, if you had seen me commit such
an act in any other place, would you have thought me
insane ?

Witness.—l should not. I thought you were insane from
your committing such an act in such a place.
Mr. Gourlay.—No particular violence, I believe, was used ?
—No.

If you had seen it in the street, you would have thought it
nothing more than a common horse-whipping ?—Certainly.
And very mildly administered?—Yes, intended more to
hurt the mind than the body.
Was there any thing incoherent in what I said ?—No,
but I thought it odd, your saying, " Let the dead bury the
dead."

What, you think quoting the Scriptures a proof of insanity,
do you ?—No, I do not.
Mr. Gourlay then said, he had not seen the warrant upon
which he was taken into custody; and if it was not an im-
proper question, he would wish to know what was the ob-
ject in bringing him there ? At whose instance was he brought
there ?

Mr. HALLS gave no answer.
Mr. Gourlay.—You are not my prosecutor. You are the
Magistrate only; and there must be an accuser.
Mr. HALLS.—You are brought here on my warrant, Sir, nod
that is sufficient. An assault has been sworn to, anti -there is
quite sufficient for me to call upon you-for an explanation.
Have you any to give ?
Mr. Gourlay said, that Mr.. Brougham had injured, ne.
glected, nay, betrayed him, and lie had adopted that mode of
making his. feeling upon the subject known to the public.
Mr. HALLS.—And do you call that a rational mode of pro-
ceeding ?. - - -

Mr.—Gourlay.—As rational as such things ever are.. I as-
sure you, I never was cooler in my life than at that moment.
I had determined on the act for four or five months before: I
had consulted a friend upon the matter,
•
Mr. lIALLs.—Who is that friend ?

..... ....-..- .
Mr. Gourlay.—His name is Hamilton. He is now abroad ;
but I dd not -wish by any means to bring him into any kind of
responsibility for my conduct. It was not by his advice; but
with his approbation, certainly. Mr. Gourlay went on to say,
that he had, before he went to the
.11ousi.-, written a .letter to
Sir R. Fergusson, acquainting him with his motives for the
step he was about to take. This letter he intended should be
forwarded to Sir It. Fergusso.n after he (Mr. Gourlay) had
committed the meditated act.. He was aware that such a Step
might be construed into an act of insanity, and lie.therefore
took that mode of convincing the world that lie was perfectly
sane at the time, and that it was a cool and deliberate act. He
was not able to meet Mr. Brougham immediately, and he
wrote another letter to Sir R. Fergusson, and got a friend of
his to put his initials upon the envelope, at the same time re-
questing that friend to recollect that he (Mr. Gourlay) was then
perfectly cool and collected; for he knew that, under all cir-
cumstances, the act he contemplated would be misconstrued,
and he would be set down as a madman. The friend he al-
luded to was now here.

Mr. James Barber, of 13, Clifton-street, Finsbury-topiare,
surgeon, swore that he lodged in the same house with Mr.
Gourlay, who had been, 20 years ago, a very intimate friend of
bis father's. Witness did not know that the assault was to be
committed ; but he recollected, that about ten days or a fort-
night before it occurred, Mr. Gourlay showed him two sealed
letters, requested hint to put his initials to them, and also to
recollect that he was then in the same state of coolness that he
always was. He said he had some intended business of great
importance, and he wished witness to be able to bear testi-
mony, if it should ever be necessary, that he was perfectly cool
and collected. This did not appear to the witness at all singu-
lar. He thought there was nothing odd in it. His curiosity
was not at all excited. -
Mr. Gourlay.-..31r. Barber, you have known me a CO/13i.

- - -
"iderabletinie--.liave lodged in ffielititielinise, and conversed
with me daily:—did it ever strike you that I was a madman ?
Mr. Barber—No, I. never. thought so.
In answer to questions from-Mr. Hanns, witness said, he
had -pot attended particularly` to cases of insanity- he had only
seen a. few cases. He never had the least suspicion that Mr.
Gourlay -was of unsound mind.
Mr. ,GOURLAY (to Mr. HALLS.)—I suppose , you are per-
fectly satisfied with What Mr, Barber has said ?
Mr. am 'satisfied, frordyfhat has been said, that
further inquirris necessary. • - •
Mr. Barber (to further questions). added, that the conduct of
Mr: Gour/ay was alWays regular, correct, and proper.
Mr. :John William Bannister, a student e law of the
Middle Temple, was next called, rlnti examined by Mr. °our-
lay.—He had known Mr. Gourlay intimately for . nearly three
years. He had walked with him, associated with him, and con-
versed upon all topics with him almost-every day, and he cer-
tainly never thought him in the slightest degree insane. He
was of a singularly enthusiastic turn, but witness " never
thought him unfit to conduct himself." He should not think
him capable of committing the act imputed to him from any
feeling of malevolence. He considered the act just such a one
as a person of the defendmt's turn of mind would be likely to
commit in a matter in which he thought his honour concerned.
He never thought the act indicative of insanity. Mr. Gourlay
had nothing revengeful in his disposition—quite the reverse.
He was firmly of opinion that no danger whatever could accrue
to society from Mr. Gourlay being permitted to go at large.
He might go farther, -perhaps, than men of cooler tempera-
ment would do under the same circumstances, but there were
many others living who would proceed to quite as great extre-
mities, and yet had never been suspected of insanity.-
, Mr. Goarlay, then, protested; against the present proceeding,
and declared, that never from the moment of his birth had
he been afflicted with the least aberratidn of intellect. He
then entered into a long detail of his sufferings •iri Canada,
and explained the circumstance which led to th assault upon
Mr. Brougham..
Mr. Bannister having repeated in the strongest manner his
conviction that -Mt. Gourlay was not in the slightest degree
insane,
-Mr. IlAnns'observed, that there were other Gentlemen pre-
sent whose evidence Would betaken upon" the subject.
Dia.-Sir George Tuthill and Munro were thin sworn, and
were about to give evidence, when Mr. Bannister stepped for-
ward, and with much earnestness said—" I begto observe that
I have known Mi:-Gourlay most intimately, -And' have had
daily opportunities of witne*ing his manner; and perhaps my
testimony ought to be considered of more weight Oen than that
of these Learned Doctors."

Sir &entge Tutnill and Dr. Munro were called upon, and
the certificates which they had given when Mr. Gourlay was iii
confinement at the. House of Commons, and which have already
been published, were'read over to them, and the Learned Doc-
tors said they were still of the same opinion. They had ob-
served the manner of Mr. Gourlay during the present exami-
nation, and they were of opinion that he was of unsound mind.
Sir George Tuthill added, that he was of opinion that the de-
fendant was a dangerous person, and not fit to be suffered to go
abroad.
A long conversation ensued, in which Mr. Gourlay pro-
tested against the proceedings, but was told by Mr. HALLS
that-there was sufficient to warrant his detention. "I do net
sit here," said the Magistrate, " to decide upon your sanity or
insanity, Mr. Gourlay, and I beg you will understand that ;
I shall only pursue the same course with you that I should with
others. It is sworn before me that you have committed an
assault, and that you are suspected of being an insane person.
I shall therefore commit you under the Act of Parliament to
the Sessions, there to be further dealt with. You may be bailed
if you bring such bail as will satisfy myself and another Magi-
strate ; and if we should refuse to take it, you will still have
an opportunity of applying to the Judges of the land.
Mr. Gourlay, after putting several other questions to the
Magistrate and physicians, was committed to the. house of
Correction, with directions that every possible attention should
be shown him. Mr. HALLS assured hint he should experience
the treatment due to a gentleman.
This examination occupied from half-past.eight o'clock until
a quarter past eleven last night.