The Sun.
London, England, 1847-06-02 00:00:00

TION RAILWAY.

On the motion for the further consideration of the
report on this Bill,

Mr. STRUTT moved, pursuant to notice, that the
Bill be re-committed, for the purpose of enabling the
Committee to report their reasons for recommending, in
their twelfth resolution, that such line should be formed
on any other than the four feet eight and a half inch
gauge.

After some discussion the motion was agreed to.
CHESTER AND HOLYHEAD (No. 2) RAILWAY.
Lord RENDLESHAM moved that it be an instruction
to the Committee on the Chester and Holyhead Railway
(No. 2) Bill, that they have leave to divide the said Bill
into two Bills, if they think fit, and to proceed with the
consideration of such portion of the said Bill, when di-
vided, as relates to the proposed extensions and works at
Chester and Holyhead respectively, in the absence of
any report of the Commission appointed to examine into
the merits of the proposed harbour at Holyhead, not-
withstanding the order of the House on the 7th day of
May last.—Agreed to.
COMMITTEE ON STANDING ORDERS.

Sir WM. HEATHCOTE moved as a Select Com-
mittee for the revision of the standing orders:—Sir Wm.
Heathcote, Mr. Ord, Lord Dalmeny, Sir Robert Fer-
guson, Mr. Wilson Patten, Sir John Yarde Buller, Mr.
Aglionby, Captain Jones, Mr. Home Drummond, Mr.
Wrightson, Mr. Sotheron, Mr. Estcourt, Mr. Strutt, Mr.
Greene, and Mr. Loch.—Agreed to.
LONG'S ESTATE BILL.

Mr. GREENE moved that the Examiner of petitions
for private Bills have leave to proceed on Long's Estate
Bill on Thursday next.—Agreed to.

LIVERPOOL, MANCHESTER, AND NEW-
CASTLE-UPON-TYNE RAILWAY.

Mr. BOYD moved, that in the case of the two peti-
tions for additional provision in the Liverpool, Man-
chester, and Newcastle-upon-Tyne Junction Railway
Act Amendment Bill, the examiner of petitions for
private Bills have leavo to sit and proceed to-morrow.--
Agreed to.

TOWN SHEND PEERAGE.
Mr. T. CLARKE appeared at the bar of the House, as
solicitor of the Marquis of Townshend, and stated, in
answer to questions put to him by Mr. Greene, that he
was authorised to act as solicitor for the Marquis of
Townshend in all matters referring to the Townshend
Peerage BilL
Mr. STUART then moved that the petition relative
to the Townshend Peerage Bill (presented 31st May)
be now taken into consideration.

The petition was considered accordingly, and ordered
to be laid upon the table of the House.
Mr. STUART then moved that notice of the first
meeting of the Committee to Mr. Thomas Clarke, the
solicitor of the Marquis Townshend (who is in Italy),
may be deemed good service on the Marquis Townshend.
—Motion agreed to.
GLASGOW, NULSTON, AND BARHEAD
RAILWAY.
On the motion that this Bill be read a third time,
Mr. HUME said the Glasgow, Pahley and Ayr, and the
Glasgow and Kilmarnock, were the two Bills, and he
merely rose to ask the House whether, when they had
proof before them that a conspiracy had existed for
twenty-one years, by which the public had been injured,
they would pass the Bill ?
Lord PALMERSTON said that the Hon. Member
was mistaken in the supposition that the three Bills were
connected. The Bill now before the House had nothing
to do with the monopoly of which he complained.
Mr. HASTIE also gave a similar assurance.
Mr. HUME would then postpone his observations till
Friday next.
The Glasgow, Neilston, and Barrhead Bill was then
read a third time and passed.
WASTE LANDS OF IRELAND.
Mr. P. SCROPE postponed till the. 15th of June his
resolution that the waste lands of Ireland offer an avail-
able resource for the immediate employment and future
maintenance of a part of her population, now apparently
redundant; and that it is expedient to apply them to
this great national object, making equitable compensa-
lion to their present proprietors.
LEGACY DUTY.
Dr. BOWRING postponed till the 22d of June his
motion for a Select Committee, to inquire whether
sundry amounts have not been and are illegally detained
by the Treasury, for legacy duty on the property of
testators not domiciled in the United Kingdom.

PETITION OF JOHN DAWSON.
Mr. FERRAND moved that the petition of John
Dawson, complaining of the imprisonment of his daugh.
ter, Mary Dawson, for quitting her work, be printed
with the votes.—Agreed to.
STATIONERY EXPENSES.
Mr. HUME moved for a return of the number and
expense of the various papers that were ordered to be
printed by Parliament during the last session.
CHINA.

Dr. BOWRING inquired of the Secretary to the
Colonies, whether an ordinance issued by the Governor
of Hong-Kong, dated the 11th day of March last, and
which appropriates 4,600/. of the revenue of that colony
to the building of an Anglican church, has received the
sanction of her Majesty's Government ; whether an or-
dinance of the same date, which repeals the ordinance of
1844, by which certain rights of appeal were provided in the
Supreme Court of Judicature against consular decisions,
has been approved by the Home Colonial authorities?
Mr. HA WES said that, with regard to the first ques-
tion, Sir Henry Pottinger, in the year 1843, when Lord
Stanley was Secretary for the Colonies, brought under the
consideration of the Government the necessity of buiLling
a church at Hong-Kong, and an agrtement was
entered into that if they subscribed one third of
the amount, the other would be supplied by the
ativernment. That was done, and the money
was accordingly advanced. With regard to the
other part of the question, he was not in a position to
answer it, as he had not the proper documents in his
possession; he would, however, make inquiries and he
would be happy to give all the information required.
THE LORDS' AMENDMENTS.
Mr. GREENE brought up the report of the Select
Committee appointed to draw up reasons for the House
disagreeing with the Lords' amendments.
TAXING-MASTERS IN IRELAND.
Mr. GOULBURN wished to know from the Right
Hon. Gentleman the Solicitor-General whether it was his
intention to bring in a Bill for correcting what was mani-
festly an error with respect to the office of taxing-master
to the Queen's Bench in Ireland. It was the duty of,
the taxing-master to investigate all questions of costs
and certain matters with respect to railway companies ;
thus a great increase of labour had been thrown upon
the one taxing-master. There were five taxing masters
in the Queen's Bench of this country, and the work
thrown upon one master was considerable.
Mr. MONAHAN (the Solicitor-General for Ireland)
said the matter to which the Hon. Gentleman bad re-
ferred had only been brought under his attention within
the last few days. It appeared that the offi.:er
referred to was the proper person to tax the costs,
but it also appeared that he had objected,
because there was no remuneration attached

to the office. It was right that an adequate
remuneration should be attached to the office. He did
not think a Bill could be brought forward on the subject
during the present session.
IRISH RAILWAYS.

Sir R. PEEL said that the Noble Lord in his speech
the other evening did not make any mention of the Irish
Railways Bill. lie had had a communication addressed
to him by several parties who were most anxious to
know the intention of the Government on the subject.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that a report had been
presented upon the subject, and as soon as it was printed
it would be laid before the House. He was not prepared
to make any further vote for these railways this session.
—(Both the question of the Right Hon. Baronet, and
the answer of the Noble Lord were very indistinctly
heard in the gallery).
THE CASE OF SIR EARDLEY WILMOT.
Mr. SPOONER wished to know whether his
Noble Friend would permit his motion relative
to the case of Sir Eardley Wilmot to be brought for-
ward at once. He could assure his Noble Friend that
nothing should fall from him at all likely to promote any
disagreeable discussion. lie wished merely to state, that
the charges made against him had been most fully refuted.
Under these circumstances he hoped that the course
which it was intended to pursue would not be perse-
vered in.

Lord LINCOLN said, though unwilling to accede to
grounds,
when request of the Hon. Gentleman on public
when the private feelings of the gentleman's relatives
were so intimately concerned, he would complywith
the request of the Hon. Gentleman, if the other Mem-
bers of the House were willing to do so.
Mr. HUME said he was not at all willing to accede to
the request of the Hon. Gentleman; and the cause was
that no speech could be made wthout a reply. He
hoped the Noble Lord would proceed in the usual way.
. Mr. BOUVERIE said that acting upon personal feel.
mg he would be inclined to agree with the Hon. Gentle-
man (Mr. Spooner), and hoped that the Hon. Member
for Montrose would desist.
Mr. HUME said that he would not, unless it was un-
derstood that there would be no reply to the speech
that might be made.
Mr. V. SMITH said it was impossible that the Noble
Lord could bring his motion forward without something
being said either for or against the late Secretary for
the Colonies. It would be most unwise, therefore, to
bring the subject before the House under such circum-
stances.
Mr. SPOONER said he had received a letter from the
late Secretary of State for the Colonies with regard to
the character of Sir Eardley Wilmot which was per-
fectly satisfactory.
Lord LINCOLN wished to know what course would
be taken with reference to the other notices on the
paper, if his Hon. Friend took precedence himself.
The SPEAKER was understood to say, that if the
Hon. Member for Birmingham should have the prece-
dence after the Hon. Gentleman concluded. his motion.
he should call upon the Noble Loi d to bring forward his.
Mr. SPOONER was about to
hispro.ceed,whea
Mr. HUME rose to protest against doing so. If
he wanted any reason why this discussion should be
postponed, it would be found in what had occurred to-
day.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM perceived great difficulty in
departing front the
.established rule. It appeared to
him that on Thursday next would be the opportunity,
when the question of transportatien would be brought
before the House by the Right Hon. Gentleman, for
making the explanation of the Hon. Gentleman.
Sir G. GREY thought that the suggestion of the
Right lion. Griitleman. was one which the Government
coincide in. It was expedient that the
could not readily

business of the country should be proceeded with, and
the introduction of questions which did not bear a very
close affinity to the order of the day was calculated only
to delay and embarrass the proceedings of the House.
He thought that these questions should be kept as much
distinct as possible.
LORDS' AMENDMENTS ON THE LANDED
PROPERTY (IRELAND) BILL, AND THE
POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL.
Mr. GREENE appeared at the bar, and announced
that the House of Lords had agreed to a conference
with the Commons, which they had appointed to take
place in the Royal Gallery.
Lord John Russell, the Solicitor-General for Ireland,
with other Members of the Government, and accom-
panied by several Hon. Members, left the House to
attend the conference.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL shortly after appeared at
the bar, and reported that the deputation ap-
pointed by the House, had conferred with
a deputation of the House of Lords with respect to the
two Bills—the Poor Relief Ireland Bill, and the Landed
Property Ireland Bill, and had stated their reason for
disagreeing with the Lords' amendments, and had left
the Bills and their reasons for disagreeing with their
Lordships.

Mr. HUME said he should persist in the course be
had stated to the House.
Lord J. RUSSELL rose to order. He very much
regretted that his Hon. Friend had not been allowed to
go on ; but at the same time he could not help
saying that if the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hume) per.
sisted in maintaining his privilege that he a 'Dull adopt
a very inconvenient course, because it would have the
effect of overruling the decision of the majority of that
House.
Mr. HUME was sorry to persist, but he felt it his duty
to do so.
The subject then dropped.
COLONISATION (IRELAND).
The Earl of LINCOLN then rose to move that an
humble address be presented to her Majesty, praying
that she will take into her most gracious consideration
the means by which colonisation may be msele subsidiary
to other measures for the improvement of the social con-
dition of Ireland ; and by which, consistently with full
regard to the interests of the colonists themselves, the
comfort and prosperity of those who emigrate may be
effectually promoted. He said, when he reflected upon
the importance of the subject which he had undertaken
to bring forward, when he considered the extent of that
subject, whether in reference to the magnitude of the
interests involved, or the difficulties of its details—and
he did not feel this less when he bore in mind the many
occasions ou which this subject had been brought before
the House, and the manner in which it had been brought
forward by some who were now no longer Members of
that House, and also by some now present—he felt that
he should stand much in need of the indulgence of the
Howe, but he trusted that no deficiency on his part
would be allowed to interfere with the object of the mo-
tion, and that it might obtain the deliberate attention of
the Reuse and the Government. He trusted, however,
that he should not be obliged to trespass at any length
upon their indulgence ; but the question was one of such
paramount importance that he should be compelled to
relate a few simple facts, and a few plain principles, in
order to induce the House and the Government
nsides subject,
,of
t
to adopt the motion. And before he entered
uponn
both the
heheHwouiss
wished dt h
sto t
heassureil
e d nHon.ntbrought
Gentlemen
for-
ward
the motion with any intention of bringing it for-
ward to bear upon party feeling or -• party principles.—
(Cheers.) He should endeavour to advocate the motion
so as to place no obstacle whatever in the way of either
side of the House giving it its support. He had
worded it in a way to prevent all misunderstanding. It
was not his intention to bring forward any new plan of
colonisation for the relief of Ireland, nor was it his in-
tention to adhere strictly to any of the plans submitted
to the House and the public during the last twenty- five
years. His simple object was to obtain an inquiry by
means of which a commission of able and competent men,
such as the Government felt justified in employing un-
paid, would be appointed. The great object which he
desired to attain, was to ascertain how far this system of
colonisation was applicable in the present state of Ireland,
so as to benefit those who remained in the country. He
did not mean by this motion to encourage that system
which had been characterised as " shovelling out
paupers," for, on the contrary, he believed that sooner
than adopt such a system, it would be better to take the
dreadful alternative, if, indeed, it were the only one, of
leaving them in their presentcondition to starve and perish.
The remedy was one which would have the same effect
as bleeding in the human frame, and was like that
remedy, if properly applied, likely to be beneficial in its
results. He would wish to consider what were the great
objects of' the poor-law, and whether he considered it
were likely to effect those objects necessary for the entire
well-being of the country, and if not, what measures
could be adopted for that end ? He did not consider the
poor-law as calculated to reliev . all the permanent des-
titution of the country ; but as the Noble Lord had said,
as a stimulous to the employment of labour, and as a
source of giving an increased' security to life and pro-
perty. Without that security, capital and enterprise
could never flow into that country, which would still
continue in the evil and vicious state of pauperism and
crime. He thought that the poor-law could not accom
plish all these objects. The House would excuse him if
he read one or two statements from that able document
the report of the Commissioners appointed in 1836 to
enquire into the condition of the poorer classes of
Ireland. The report stated that there was
not that division of labour in Ireland
which was to be found in Great Britain.
The supply of the agricultural labour was considerably
greater then the demand tor it. In Great Britain the
agricultural labourers did not form more than a fourth,
while in Ireland they constituted a fourth of the wholt.
population. The consequence was, that in Ireland there
were 2,800,000 persons out of iv irk in the course of thr
year. So much for the statement of tie Commis.sionerb.
Now, the net annual value of ptoperty-tated to the pour
in Ireland was 13,404,4031; but in addition to this tbi.re
was the cuss-rates, amounting tl 1,158,2.531, making the
total charge on property for the support of the pour
6,783,307/. It had been stated that the tax would not
exceed 2,000,0001., but be did not think that this state-
ment was justified by fact, because the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman opposite had not taken into account the
altered circumstances of the country. He should
consider that the potato was not now to be
reckoned upon in their calculations upon this matter. lie
thought that no Hon. Gentleman could deny that the
amount of employment in Ireland must be diminished
by the present circumstances of the country. It seemed
to him that they would proceed from bad to worse in
Ireland unless some measure additional were introduced
to the aid of the Poor-law. He thought that unless some
adjuncts were introduced to assist the present law that
it could not be expected to work efficiently. He thought
no Hon. Gentleman would deny this if he investigated
the system of rating that was proposed to be adopted.
It would tend to great evil if left to act by itself. He
thought that the Poor-law was well calculated to remove
many of the evils which afflicted Ireland, but he knew
that unaided it would have a very partial effect, and in
that event it would leave the country in the same state
as at present. The Government had passed measures
for the reclamation of waste lands, the sale of encum-
bered estates, and also had made many advances; all of
these were intended to assist the operation of the Poor-
law and would most likely do so to some extent. The
Bill for the sale of encumbered estates would, he
thought, have the effect of so far reducing the
price of land as to cause many and serious
inconveniences to the landlords. With regard to the
money advances, he thought that a good deal of the
money would go to those proprietors who did not very
much require it, and that those proprietors in the west
and the north would despair of obtaining higher rent
for these improvements, and would not, therefore, avail
themselves of the loan. With regard to the grant for
piers and harbours, and other things, he had calculated
that even if 1,000,000/. of the 1,500,000/. were spent in
the first year, at the rate of 181. per year, to each in-
dividual, it would only afford employment to 100,000
persons, who, with their families, representing
500,000 persons, would alone be saved from starvation
and destitution. Unless these data could be contro-
dieted, he was right in assuming that the poor-law
would be inadequate to relieve the whole of the desti-
tution now in
Ireland. He then came to the considera-
tion of how far the system of colonisation would tend to
aid and carry out its operations. He apprehended that
the proper cultivation of land in Ireland could not take
place as long as the present practice of minute sub-
divisions of land existed. The existence of these sub-
divisions in enormous quantities was proved by the re-
turn of the census of the year 1841. The Noble
Lord then referred to documents proving, the
existence of a great number of small holdings
of the rent of from 11. to 4/. in the barony of Farney.
He would ask the House, how was it possible that the
improvement of the cultivation of the soil could be
\
brought about under such a system as that ? He had
an opportunity last autumn of visiting in Ireland the
estate of the Secretary for Foreign Affairs. He found
that great attention had been bestowed upon it, and yet
still he found, from inquiries upon that estate and in the
parish, that the estate contained 16,410 acres, the popu-
lation was 8,750, and the annual value 5,2381., and yet
with that population the land under corn cultivation last
year only amounted to 432 acres. He would ask whether
any influx of capital could remedy the state of things
existing in Ireland, without some alterationinthsuacti the
a
I
system ? It must, however, be borne in mind, _
improved husbandry of a country necessarilyecremed d
of
the quantity of labour employed, for the proportionss
to 2
i
employed in England.
agricultural labourers employed in Ireland
was a
That instance would be suffi-
cient to show that this assumption was correct. That
would be remedied by emigration,
andhe
offered " as the other
' t o remove
day told by a landlord, that having
1 000 persons from his estate to the colcnies 2,000
more
applied to ' be removed also. The opinion of Sir R.
Keane had been quoted to show that Ireland was
capable of containing a population of more than double
that which now existed, he was not disposed to deny
that it must necessarily be done by an improve-
ment in the social condition of Ireland, and the opening
of mines and manufactures. In order to effect that, a
temporary reduction of the population was necessary,
and the void thus created would very soon be filled ut .
They had been told that the result of colonisation would
be to remove the bone and sinew—the vigour and
strength of the land, away from it. Such, however,
would not be the case, for there was, as they knew, a
population quite sufficient to bear the largest reduction
that could be brought about under this system. The
thought that Committee of 1830 stated that they emi-
gration was peculiarly adapted to remove many of the
i pressing
evils which then existed in Ireland. Again, lie
would only quote one more sentence, which should be
from Lord De Rous's commission. (The Noble Lord
went on to read a passage from the report, recommend'
ing the adoption of some system of ernigration for lte
therelief of Ireland.) In the second report
of
f the
Com-
mittee, appointed a short time ago,
to
consider
orumendatiOn
state of Ireland, ho found a similar rec

as well as an appeal to the landlords of Ireland to give
encouragement and assistance to those who ai4e anxious
to emigrate. He was afreid he had weabied the House
with going so much into details. but he though-tile had
said sufficient to maize out a case for enquiry. -Enquiry -
was all he asked for. He had no new plan or project , -
of colonisation to propose: but he might at the same
time be permitted to recapitulate the various plans of
colonisation which had been recently brought before the
House. A short while ago the lion. Member for Gates.
head advocated the adoption of home colonisation, and in
support of his plan pointed to the flourishing condition of
South Australia. And well the Hon. Gentleman might
refer to that colony, for only a little while ago it was ts
barren, unpopulated tract of land, while now it. was
well cultivated and inhabited by an industrious body of
colonists. At the present time, however, upwards of
1100 per month were emigrating to that colony, while
the rates of passage were very heavy, and be therefore
did not think the Australian colonies could be applied to
the purpose he had in view. The same observation would
apply to New Zealand, but he was told that there aas
a colony peculiarly adapted to the purpose. He alluded
to South Africa, where there were upwards of six mil-
lions of fertile, though unoccupied land. And was also
told that the colony abounded in iron:, stone, and other
minerals. On the other hand, there were their North
American colonies open to them. Canada, however,
lac riled them a proof of the utility of colonisation. Its
population had latterly increased in an exceedingly large
ratio, while there had been equal increase in the amount
of its exports. In 1835, only twelve years ago, the
quantity of flour exported was only 35,000 barrels, while
in 1846 it amounted to 800,000 barrels. Besides that, the
imports amounted annually to upwards of nine millions.
Now, with regard to the different plans of colonisation
which had been propounded, there was first the plan of
cdaillde n d o
t a
think s e 1 f-
slulpr.pGoritbinbg sys
onlildekmetioeflde,mwighriacthi:ir but he
might be
this system was applicable to Canada, because there the
land was cheap, while there were ample opportunities
and temptations for removal to the United States. Then
there was the plan of Colonel Torrens, but that was only
a modification of Mr. G. Wakefiel Ts plan. There was, too,
the plan proposed by Mr. Sullivan and Mr. Godley,
and the one proposed by the Noble Lord the Secretary
for the Colonies, all of which would form an ample subject
for enquiry. There was, too, another plan recently
propounded in a pamphlet by Mr. Brodigan, of employ-
ing the emigrant on the land for a time upon wages
and allowing him to become the possessor of the land at
the expiration of the period. Perhaps, without violat-
ing the rule he had laid down of proposing no new plan,
he might be allowed to direct the attention of the House
to one which had not yet been brought before the pub-
lic. It must be within the knowledge of the Hon. Gen-
tleman, the Under Secretary of State for the Colonies,
and he had no doubt, notwithstanding the pressure of
other affairs upon the time and memory of the
Noble Lord at the head of Government, that
a railroad had been projected from Canada to Quebec,-
passing through the provinces of Nova Scotia and New
Brunswick. He looked upon this undertaking as one of
great national importance, both in a political and com-
mercial point of view. It could be constructed at a mo-
derate expense, land being cheap in the colony, and it
would effect the object Mr. Pitt always contemplated, of
uniting all the North American colonies belonging to
this country. The construction of this railroad, too,
would afford facilities fur carrying out any limn of
emigration, because it would afford employment for the
emigrants immediately cn their reaching the colony.
He looked upon this undertaking, therefore, as being of
the utmost importance to the colonies and to this country.
He knew there were many Hon. Members with whom
he might differ upon this point. He felt that the great-
est possible good would result to the commerce and the
colonies of this country by a system of colonisation.
These benefits, could not, however, be obtained without
a large outlay of capital. He did not propose any Go-
vernment grants or loans for this purpose ; still the
amount required would be but small in comparison with
the sum annually required to support the poor of the
two countries. The amount of expense had been diffe-
rently stated by various persons at stems ranging from
41. to 25/. ; but he might, perhaps, be told, that
if any sum should be spent, it would be much
better to spend that money in,lreland than in the colo-
nies. He - did not agree with that opinion, he thought
a system of
.colonisation would tend to improve and to
elevate the moral and social condition of the people of
Ireland. He had seen it stated, that any extended colo-
nisation was impossible, because an adequate supply of
food could not be found in Canada. The objection he
did not think would have any weight with persons who
were aware that the surplus corn of Canada annually
amounted to upwards of 2,000,000 barrels. It might be
said too, that sufficient freights could not be found to
carry out a system of extended colonisation. This was
a statement without foundation, for it appeared that
in the year 1846 there were 1,585 ships, with a tonnage
of 605,253 tons, which left thie country in ballast every
year, this quantity would under the Passengers' Act,
allowing three passengers to every five tons, afford
accommodation to 363,000 emigrants. Then it was said
that the Irish people of all others made the worst kind
of emigrants ; this was. however, refuted by the facts
of the case, and the immense -remittances sent from
America towards the relief of their friends in Ireland
was a most satisfactory answer to the charge thus
brought against thew, Ito did not believe that there
was that difference in the cliaracter of the Celt and the
Saxon which some persons would endeavour to make out.
There was nothing in the character ef the Celt to de.
serve the character of indolence Nvhich had been se libe-
rally 'bestowed upon tly..m. These opinions did not
exist in the colonies with regard to the Irish colonists
themselves, and he could not name a higher authority
upon this subject than Chief Justice Robinson, who
stated that the Irish were orderly and loyal, andahe
most industrious of the colonists of that province. Six
Wilmot Horton also bore the highest testimony
to the loyal land patriotic gallantry of the
Irish colonists.. Capt-tin hall also corroborated the
honourable cc:Ai/lion). borne by tho former Gentleman.
It had been said, also, that colonisation from Ireland
would be confined to tie lowest classes, he did not agree
with that opinion, and it was his firm opinion that the
educated and middle classes of Ireland would emigrate
in largo numbers. Tile opinions of the Canadian press,
were very much divided upon the plan of emigration, ass
proposed by Mr. Godley, and he had no doubt that the
scissors had been lately very industriously employeti on
those papers in the colonial office. The Noble Lord
then read several extracts from a number of Canadian
papers, expressing an opinion favourable to an extended
system of colonisation. Mr. Sullivan, too, in an ad-
dress, at the Mechanics Institute of Toronto, spoke
highly in favour of a moat extensive colonisa-
tion, if properly conducted. There was room,
said that gentleman, for 500,000 emigrants,
a hose arrival would not prevent that colony
from being still an exporting country, although it could
lot be doubted that the best market for Canada was its
home markets. He would again assure the House that
he brought forward the motion without any party feel-
ing, and he hoped thet he had abstained from introduc-
ing any sentiment which was objectionable to any section,
of the flou-e.--(Hear, hear.) He might be taunted that
be had not brought forward any plan, but he, at the
commencement of his speech, stated that it was not his
intention so to do. but he only brought forward those
of others, in order to make a case, that a
Commission should be granted, a real Commission
which would have practical effects, and not for the pur-
pose of postpoeing the consideration of the measure. He
brought the subject before the [louse, not with any want
of confidence in the Colonial-office, nor would'this mea-
sure produce talse exp« stations, as bad been urged by
those who objected to the plan. The Noble Lord at the
head of the Colonial-office, on the motion of the Han.
Member for Limeriek, some years past, had pointed out
colonisation as applicable to the present state of Ireland,
and if it should turn out that ( migration was going on
as favourably as it was anticipated, the public would not
be satisfied with such a statement, unless it were satis-
factorily proved. Nor did he believethat such
ely an
would impede the course of emigration
re
at the present moment, but
he would f _
enquiry
such a fact, as an evil of r,uch extensive magnitude,
upon
admit, that even if it did, he could not look
as some gentlemen were disposed to view it. He would
now apologise to the Douse for the length of time which
he had detained it, and should thank the House for the
attention which had been rendered to his argument.
He, therefore, begged to place upon record his reasons
for enforcing this subject upon the attention of the
Government, convinced, as he was, that a judicious
system would lead materially to benefit the country,
and afford the moat permanent relief to the calamities
which oppressed her.
Mr. HAW ES said that he was quite disposed to dis-
cuss the question in the spirit in which the Noble Lord
introduced it. But he considered that the proposition
was not of so beneficial a character as he was dis-
posed to look upon it. The Noble Lord
should remember that the very class which would.
take advantage of a system of emigration was precisely
that class which it svou'al be desirable to retain
upon
any of the plans which he had brought
Ire-
land. The Noble Lord did not
giveany
under opinion
the notice
understand, however, that he
would have advocated Mr.
of the House ; he did
Godie
Godley's plan. He would
here gay that the new system of colonisation differed
k by number ofpublic spirited
from the old system. Formerly these
nt day
persons, and they did not ever apply to the Government
arifgethgeryantws
ewreereremfase.dede
bscsecylhmeeptmmhieeeetsoel:Gy' Government, which
undertaken
ar tta theen
pre
sea
no one attempted a
colonisation unless I
exposed the Government to great odium. If there was
any step taken to favour emigration, it would for assistanecree,
imme-
diately check the voluntary emigration which now
flowed on unimpeded. And if any sum was advanced
for such a purpose, there were other portions of the
United Kingdom who would be equally entitled to de-
mand that they should not be excluded from a fair pro-
portion.—(Hear, hear.) But whilst these improved
means of colonisation had been going on, it would be
well to turn to the colonies themselves, and look what
bad taken place since they came into operation. With
regard to the Australian colonies—in 1835 the popula-
tion was 102,949, and in 1845 it was 295,900. The
imports to them in the former year amounted to
1,745,000L,and in the latterl.99o,ooo/ The
not all exportsbringthis
respectively 1,004,000 L and 2.17.50 la _
Did
d gradually taken
show the great improvementte Noble Lord there was no that
b
place? He could assure the
hen e labourer a ' d • neve in the
want employment wli bateme employment, and every
Australias. They got in
tyre as taken by
method and system that the emigrants
should w
ould be distributed over the country where they were
most requiree, and where it was most probable their
labour would be absorbed. The Noble Lord referred to
Mr. Godley's plan, but he could assure him that it was
received very unfavourably throughout Canada, and
would have the effect of imposing a tax upon the capital
of Ireland, which could be ill borne by that country.
This plan would t.ke away nine millions of the capital,
with two millions of the able-bodied labourers, and be
did not think that the scheme would be found so advan-
tageous as the promoter of it anticipated. The

proposal of the expenditure of sixteen millions man afterwards referred to the colonisation scheme
on the railways of Ireland, proposed by the Noble of Lord Grey, which he characterised as a scheme
Lord the member eel- Lynn. would, iu his (Mr. brought into existence ou a Fridey, and withdrawn on
Hates) judgment he a muce preferable expenditure the following Tuesday. Why. he ought to have told
to the soaeme of sendieg out two millions of able bodied the House that Earl Grey was a most successful framer
men at a cost, of 15/. per head. Then he would ask, of schemes. Ile- was a member of the Ministry, and
how was this money, so advanced, to be repaid ? He some of his plans were to be put in operation
believed that any such scheme of emigration would ma• now.—(Hear, heir.) A great deal was said of an-
terialiy interfere with the voluntary emigration now tipathies existing between the_ Anglo-Saxonsand
going on from that country, and would be found most Celtic races. There were no such antipathies h. tes_ existing
injurious in its operation. '1 he Hon. Gentleman then and the best proof of this was fin niched by the unos-
;rad extra.: is from repe Crete' from an emigration agent in tentatious aid rendered by the S ete' or Friends and
dontreal, to the effect that the emigrates to the North others in this country. who had sent no less than 57,0001
Ameretan colonies had no difficelty in settling con- to aid in allevieting the distress in Ireland, and all this
fortable in that country, and that Governmerit done, it sheuld be remembered, from the purest
interference should be strongly deprecst.d. He principles of humanity. He trusted that the Noble
believed that from 300,0001. to 400.0001 was Lord at the head of the Government would take some
annually remitted from the settlers to the aid of means to further the objects sought by his Noble Friend,
their friends in Ireland, and he put it, therefore. to the for the Government might rest assured that a good sys-
Neble Lord is hether any attempt made to check thin state tem of colonisation would act in a better manner than
of things and to pirelyee the exertions that are now any such grants as had been lately made by the Go-
being . made, would nut be most daastrous. There vernment. : e was sure that it would be better to en-
was a vast stream of einigreliou now going on, and likely courage a system of colonisation, to give a spur to in •
to go on, from Ireland ; eed if Government interference dusty, and a motive for exertion, than to encourage them
were proposed, the effect would be to check this to look to this country in every season of scarcity and die-
emigration. Besides, the Noble Lord proposed no tress. They had a large population in Ireland iucurriag a
new scheme as a substitute for the present state heavy charge upon the land, while on the other side they
of emigration. He did not believe that any had a number of magnificent provinces which were im-
better instrument could be used for arriving at perfectly populated. Bear in mind that if they reduced
the truth, and at what was best and most practicable, that population they improved the colonies, and added
than a general Commission of Inquiry. He, therefore, to the importance of the parent country. Having these
earnestly asked the Noble Lord, a hether he would press two facts before them, it was not too much to ask Ge-
his motion? He was certain that as far as their wish vernment to consent to a proceeding which left every-
went with the good intentions of the Noble Lord, both the thing in their own hands.—(llear, hear.) Why
Noble Earl in the Colonial office, and the Noble Lord should not they inquire whether or no some
at the head of the Government, were most ready to co- progress cannot be made towards relieving Ireland,
operate with him ; but unless that Commission could and at the same time strengthening the colonies in their
devise funds to carry their object into effect, their efforts feelings of attachment towards this country. They
must prove abortive. He, therefore, again entreated proposed no scheme. They wanted merely inquiry.
the Noble Lord to consider whether that was the time Let the Emigration Commissioners take the matter into
to press such a motion, and whether, after the intima- their hands. Let them watch the progress of colonisa-
tion that had been given him, he ought not to postpone tion in South Australia. Let them inquire what were
it to another occasion. the original difficulties that attended that system, and
Mi.. GREGOIey begged to assure the House and her having discovered its advantages, let the Commissioners
Majesty's Ministers, that this motion had been con- make a report upon the expediency of applying the same
ceived and advocated on their part, with no hostile principles to New Brunswick and Nova Scotia. At first
object, in regard to the Government. For their sin- the experiment of colonising in South Austrarlia failed,
cere motive was to free them from the embarrassment but when they sent out a good governor in the person
with which they saw them surrounded. But be regretted of Captain Grey, all the difficulties attending upon emi-
t.° hear, from the speech of the Hon. Gentleman, that gration were overcome, and the colony had been con-
Government did not mean to support the motion. That verted from a state of despairing pauperism, into one
regret, however, was in part compensated by the hope of prosperity, influence, and wealth. Why could they
encouraged by them that the Government would give it not raise up a similar colony in Canada? True, the ex-
their attentive consideration in the Cabinet. Of periment had been tried in New Zealand, and failed, but
all the measures which it became the Government to the difficulties had resulted from the character of the
adopt, this was the foremost, under the circum- governors, and not from any defecte in the plan. But
stances of the present time, when the whole they could find other Captain Greys to conduct their
condition of Irish society was moved and rooted plans, with regard to Canada, and he did hope the
up from the foundation. Poverty was rampant Noble Lord would not object to the motion of his Noble
throughout that country, and the prospect of Friend. Let them forget their past difficulties and
a continuance of that condition was confirmed by the failures, and see if they could not devise some plan
assurance that the capital of Ireland was inadquate for which might relieve Ireland of her redundant population
the poeulatien. The Noble Lord the Member for Lynn by transferring them to the British colonies—removing
(Lord George Bentinck) with a view to remedy this them from a state of extreme destitution to a situation
germinant evil, had brought forward his motion on of comfort and affluence.
railways, which the House had unfortunately thought Lord JOHN RUSSELL freely avowed that he had
proper to reject. The Hon. Gentleman had referred in had opportunities of considering the difficulties of this
• his speech to the Irish pour-law, which the Noble Lord subject, and of weighing the information which had
had passed this session, and which his (Mr. G.egory) been received by Government, and he therefore felt
had opposed. If that mea.,ure had been accompanied himself bound to state
principles
theees
of
womodifications
afollowslaid
whichthe
with a full and proper plan of colonisation, he couldnoast
dhaodwntakbeyn
tphleacNeoibnlethLe
Lord, i
have felt himself called upon to oppose the poor-law
he had done. But unaccompanied with such a Noble Lord into that speech which related to the number
subeitsiary, that law was passed without any of the of destitute persons in Ireland, but he would go at once
strineent tests, usual to a poor-law, so that in the pre- into that part of the subject which related to colonise-
sent condition of Ireland, every one, who chose, might tion. Now the subject of colonisation had not been left
olden to be relieved from the property of others. The entirely and absolutely in the hands of the Government,
eensequence had, indeed, been immigration into Liver- nor was emigration confined entirely to the destitute, or
pool and other places on this island. What else could poor who were scarcely removed from a state of
have been the result? Inquiry had proved that there starvation. Government had, nevertheless, done
was not food sufficient fur the people ; but the people their hest to render emigration safe ; and in the
must sink back on the caeital of the country, and first place, they had established an Emigration
poverty must be bred in consequence. The remedy Commission, consisting of three gentlemen, to
would have been to have provided for the people who whose intelligence anti ability the Right Hon. Gentle-
had flecked into England and Scotland, a transit into the man who had just sat down had paid a great compli-
coloilies, wheat. pepulation ene wealth. In - Ireland, merit, who were engaged in watching the prress of labour was redundaet in relation to capital ; across emigration, and taking care, under the provisionog of the
the channel, in England, cepital was redundant law, and under the direction of the Secretary
in relation to lateen-; but in the culurie.i, land of State for the Home Department, that it
was so
.rourelant in relation both to capital was conducted in the safest possible manner.
and labour, taist therefore populatiun became wealth. When the emigrants arrived iu Canada, in consequence
Taking the amount of money in which the c'-untry was of a rate taken, those who were sick were provided for
taxed to ,upp rt its pauperism—1 :eking at the immense in hospitals, while those who could travel to their desti-
sums which had been , xtraeted from it to enable its nations, were forwarded by means of the fund provided
peasantry—who have been well described as their coun- by this rate. Therefore it was not the case that emi.
try's bone and sinew—looking at all these amounts, great grants were unprovided for. But many of them mi-
ss that expenditure was, it hart not done a tithe of the grated at the cost of their landlords, who took care to
good which the system of the Noble Lord, carried out find them sufficient to carry them to their destination.
for a less cost, would do. They who advocated this Again, others were carried out by means of
system of colonisation were not met by a denial of its funds transmitted to them by their relations,
worth, bat the benefits which the country hof attempted and no less than 120,000 persons had thus
to do were thrust before their notice. This was the emigrated in the course of the present year.
only argument used by them ; this formed the But this information was viewed with considerable
burden of all their speeches, as if one and all of distrust on the other side of the Atlantic. Measures, it
the members of the Government had conned was well known, had been taken by the Government of
the same stereotyped speech to uee it on all occasions. the United States for the purpose of placing a consi-
Emigration had not yet been carried out on a suffi. derable restriction on this system of emigration, and by
ciently extended scale; it had not yet affected the social a letter from the Governor of Canada it was shown that
character of Irish society, but with a population reduced the opinion in their Canadian colonies was in favour of a
to limits proportioned to the capabilities and limits of similar system of restriction against the euormous tide
the country, a better state of morals would be induced, of emigration. Similar dispatches were received from
comforts would be common, which were almost unheard the governors of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, They
of before, and commerce would give the industry of the seemed to think that the immigration of persons would
country full occupation. Fe had referred to the objee- lead to distress and misery. Thus great alarm was al-
tion
sometimes advanced that the emigrants from Ireland ready occasioned. The months of May and June were
carried with them to the new world the vices of the old, the most favourable to emigration, and the returns came
Surely those who daily professed liberal principles, who down only to the middle of May They might
were so anxious to trumpet those opinions to the world
, therefore calculate that not less than.
200,000 persons
would not propound suchopinions as these. They were in would have left the
shores of this country before the
the habit of attributing the miseries of Ireland, the end of the lat:er month. The Government was, there
insecurity to life and property, which was so charac- fore, anxious not to countenance the opinion that they
teristic of the present state of society in that country, to were about to commence an extensive system of coloni
the imperfect, tee the impolitic, to the unjust course of sation, because such an opinion would only be met by
legislation which had been adopted towards her. Surely disappointment, and as the Government of the United
they did not now mean to assert that there was a States had taken measures to prevent the influx of emi.
damned spot in the Irish character, the effect of which grants into their territories, it was but right that they
could only ba obliterated by the 'destruction of the whole should not inflict upon ily:ir fellow subjects in the colonies,
Celtic race. It had been asserted that the Irish, how- the pauperism which they found it so difficult to grapple
ever, well they might conduct themselves when in an with at home. No Government codd provide mills and
isolated position, and detached from their fellow-coun- coals to the distant part of Canada, the Government of
trymen, could not retain their good character when once Canada could not do it ; the progress of colonisation
associated with the rest of their turbulent countrymen, would do it, do it well and successfully as it had done
but he had it in hi; power to pint out the fallacy of to the United States. But when. an Hon. Gentleman,
this assertion. He credit refer to one instance, authen- only looking at the evil enduring in Ireland, made gene-
meted by Mr. Untack, where a body of Irish insurgents ral propositions, he did not take into consideration the
teal, dat Cape Breton, in the United States, had earned attendant difficulties which would transfer the people of
the reputation of being among the best and most sober one country to starve in another. The people should not
of the citizens of the Uniael States. He cordially sup- be encouraged to believe that they had it in their power
ported the motion of the Noble Lord. to transport the people from a state of destitution in
jMr. V. s..iini said that the Noble Lord who had one country to that of happiness in another. The feel-
ust addressed the House, wished to impress Hon. Mem - ings of the 'colonists, for many reasons, should be re-
bets with the notion that he had not any plan to intros spected. With respect to the notion of the Noble
duce upon this subject himself. He thought the course Lord, he had one remark to make on that very
be had aslepted was cele&ated to misl ad the House. The dispatch which had been quoted, and which if
N bie Lord drew a distinction between colonisation and he did intend to offer any opposition to the ad-
eaegraSon wh ch he (Mr. Smith) could never under- dress, would impose very great difficulties indeed,
sand. In aucent times celonisatiou was understood. If the Noble Lord desired that the Crown should take
I lat r tine a this haft been carried int., effect. It was the subject into consideration, he could not resist the
now pe.cased by the Germans of the pr sent day, !notion, but the Noble Lord had not fixed the terms of
wNO ei-rrit.el out h iih them their spiritual and medical ate his motion in that shape. He had proposed that a Com-
v s r, liu: the Nobie Lerd but emleatioored to c tenet the mission should he appointed, which should make further
pet eye. , f ,nos (eenter with Leah affairs. The people irluiry into the means for promoting colonisation.
of this c .antre nee toroth deen their money free:), te sled, first, with reseect te the present condition of Ire-
reli ye lesh distress, but tfe y were not prepared to la ;it, such a Commi-sion is net necessary ; for on that
waste their money en comm i to rely p,-,e,,l,Live, lie subject they h-d abundant information ; and with re-
ceuld nut thilik that the Irish pepatetien were de. sp.et to any which might be dodreil relative to colonise.
&lent in the in. aria of apply•eg their labour with the teen. he considered the best which could he afforded
view or r• reenera.i.m. Bet I t them look at the gees. would be that which could be oterened from the British
ten pr,tc leAty. The Nebl- Lord had us j=etted to Atte American Cetisifs. Ile remembered that one gentle- '
tralia It ...tut ka.,we that enti.;•• ache, to the Cap- or man had proP 0,•, d that a Commission should go over to
G .011 11 p - was not desirable truth the poiitieal state Canada,, a.ndholil put-lie meetings, and there explain
of the cuui.try, and it was a taut that during the the principles of colonisation, and obtain the
past year there were but five Iturdred emigrants of the different comrnuniies. Now nothinc, acso‘eunld
to that part of the world. fie del not agree be more uncertain ; of course, they would' obtain
with the assertion respet ling the ineotupetency of the the assent to any resolution of the kind on which
Irish to be emigrants, for from accounts from Australia only one side was heard, but it would not come
it was shown that turfy possessed the qualities that were with the weight of any legislative authority.
requisite ior emigrants.—(hear, near.) In the selection If they really wanted valuable information they should
of governors discretion was shown, and that was a most look to the Governor- General, and apply for his coun-
important feature in this question. Lord Grey proposed sal. Indeed no man could be.more capable of giving
a plan which was quite in unison with all his notions of sound advice than Lord Elgin.—(Hear, hear.) They
colonisation. He proposed to bui'd small villages and -hould have the opinion of the Provincial Assembly.
towns, and give them municipal privileges ; How could that be d ice—not by a new Commission ?
but that plan had been declared by the flow could they enter into any inquiries with the Le-
Noble Lord imperfect. Neither bad the Noble gislature ? Such should come from the Crown, and
Lord brought Mr. Godley's plan prominently therefore he did not see the necessity of a Commis-
before the House, probably because he considered that it ston. Was this Commission then wanted to in-
would be impossible to raise the sum of nine millions out quire in this country ? They were told that they had
of an already impoverished set of rate-payers. But what three gentlemen who were well acquainted with the
did the Noble Lord require ?He asked that an inquiry subject in all its - branches, who were members
should be instituted into the subject. That inquiry of land societies, and were practical men.
would necessarily be required to extend- to the colonies, There was another objection to these len te were
as well as to the parent country, and the result would be, so various and SO opresio that it was (cultdyto say
that a stop would be put to all emigration for the present. which had the least objection. They all appeared to be
The present system had so far acted welllrielnontdless than good, but when they came to be examined by practical
750,000 persons had emigrated from men,
reaso nthse3;hwereerfeorfeouhned
ithoebne
iitttietrltyardbefictieernth. a Fr these
course of the lail three years, and he thought i.tnuntdhee-
sirable that expectations should have been raised by the should be left in the bands of the Executiveet that
i t
Government.epla n
Noble Lord which would not likely be realised. The He would say that the Government was quite ready to
Noble Lord had brought forward his motion without in- instruct the Governor of the Canadas, to consult the
forming them whether he intended to press it, and the legislatures of the provinces as to the best plan of emi-
Under-Secretary of State had replied without offering gration which it would be advisable to adopt. He was
any resistance. quite ready to do that, and to lay the result on the table
Sir ROBERT PEEL thought that the •House might of the House, and to give the opinion which the Govern-
take it for granted that whatever arguments could went entertained respecting it in a future session of Par-
have been adduced against his Honourable Friend, liament. He supposed the Noble Lord did not mean
_ Would have been brought forward by the Right Hon. that there should be anything done this present session,
Gentleman, who, besides the advantage of ability and a or that any measures should be taken which
knowledge of official business, had further the inestima- would have the effect of checking the stream of emi-
ble advantaee of leisure by his retirement from office. gration which was then proceeding from Ireland. Of
The R ight Hon. Gentleman told them that those gentle- all the plans which were proposed the most practical
men who
nieation w held out promisestam of a splendid system of solo- appeared to him to be the adoption of a system of pub-
hen in
of emigration - -
oPeositton, dwindled into a puny sys- lie works in the colonies, but at the same time under the
the second argue, when they once got into office. Then present strain on the finances of the country., and the
that the, system ofenerat nf the Right lion. Gentleman was, great absorption of capital in the railways in this king-
principle. Persons
wtration was conducted upon a bad dom, he thought that such a scheme was at present
where no means had bent out to foreign countries, most inopportune and unseasonable. Such a plan, how-
The next argument was, thheaedifolned to receive them. ever, though not suited to this particular period, was, he
done by thohwsieLwitli
would withdraw his motion, he ght Hon. Friend was persuaded, the best that could be adopted, and was
that which had been be only doing supported by the universal testimony of all those who
That was the third argument, and it enol Preceded him. were best acquainted with the subject of colonisation to
R, Peers) opinion, furnished another reya'soin his
(Sir North America. This being the case, he was quite
Noble Lord should not adopt that very
course, the ready to assent to address the Crown to the same effect
co•neiTuhe as that referred to by his lion. Friend; but he was not
Risr
berme, but he proceeded to show, in a peculiar strde ready to assent to an address for the appointment of a
sin of Cornmistion to inquire immediately into the subject pleasantry, what the various plans of culonisation were
first, he referred of colonisation, as he believed such a Commission would
()rilY give rise to extravagant hopes on this aide of the
which hail been brou,,-ht forward ; and e
to the scheme of the Judge Advocate, The Noble Lord water, and to extravagant apprehensions on the other,
had breueht fur w.trd his motion not in any spirit
ino-f aunttderly
fare that the
probate
imper'az.,,rbiaell, be found on in
.ilsl:ei3O,_rrdwho
party policy, but because it was now time that full
investigation to be
thought it far better there-
quiry should be made, and he trusted that all parif-s
soh He
uotnel see fit that such a motion should be Executive Governuemt should
un be left in the hands of the 1
h el brought the
acceded
~ ter., Ghee) Ili. 'Noble Friend desired to moderation of the Nobi Lord
admitting the temper and
cast n,-.. discredit upon the Ceererreneet. He was aware subject forward, in arm Li tirig ma des•
toot tee rscurtt et their a hem el - riper . riots was net see Gevernatent, anti that he was it,tr,*;ti?t to embarrass
owil,g 4) a. y elult 4411 the pa e -mei IMP' •
t -of th G • nt hut melt to retieee the country from the cli,3 influenced by a
it w,is !V present involved. ffieulties in which
simph, 4) IN, t ores tit ..Ir,ti.ll3tAtile •. 1% hi,tl were suffi
dent t., c u . rivilance th- h Mr. HOPE thought ti e appointment of the Collura
—5; ‘el.-Ine that humen in-
ge:siui:y - ats he,e brought i',,rw.ird on ti • ibj, ct. sion, attended with advantage, and though the subject
but be (Sir R. Peel) was departie • 114
" -surrounded with considerable difficulties, an j(et
g from the Eight was na•
Hon. Gentleman's argument. the Right axe Gentle. , partial investigation of the whole matter would suable

them to come to a satisfactory conclusion with regard to
it, and tend to relieve, to a very considerable extent, the
present distress under which Ireland was labouring. The
Noble Lord stated. in effect, that any plan of emigration
now adopted, would check the emigration at present pro-
ceeding. On the contrary, his (Mr. Hope's) opinion was
that all had already left Ireland, who could do so. And
he differed with the Noble Lord, when he seemed to sup-
pose that the object of the Noble Lord (Lincoln)
was to shovel crowds of paupers out of the country. His
intent was to employ the people when they got to the
other side of the water. It was a noble scheme, not one,
to be sure, which would entail no expense on the coun-
try, for colonisation could not be carried out without a
large outlay, but the expenditure was most profitably
made. The same money might result in permanent
good if laid out thus, which, when spent in
temporary relief, would only leave the objects on whom
it was applied, to fall again into poverty and pauperism.
He bad referred only to some of these subjects, because
they had been noticed by the Hon. Member for Lambeth,
and not because they had any bearing on the subject.
But he justified his vote on the present question as just
in support2.f the motion of the Noble Lord.

Mi.-HUME said, it bad been said by the Hon. Gen-
tleman, that very few of the colonies had a desire for
self-government. He denied that, and he wculd sh6rtly
show on what ground. The question before the House
especially bore upon Ireland. Why, he asked, had they
had so much difficulty in promoting emigration from Ire-
land? The reason was that the colonies we re ill governed,
and that was the only reason. He could quote an example
of bad government. Just that very day a pakket of
papers had reached him from Prince Edward's Island,
and what did they think was the state of that island ?
Why, Governor Huntley, who- had retained his office
for the last twenty-five years, was found in antagonism
to the inhabitants of the island. Last year they cen-
sured him in the Assembly, and this year the free po-
pular Assembly, under a free constitution. voted by a
majority of 18 to 3, for a responsible and en-
lightened governor in his place. Let them give
the people constitutional government and good
governors, and he had no hesitation in point-
ing to the good results which must certainly follow.
Responsible government in the colonies had not been
carried out, and he believed that the plan of the Noble
Lord would not be successful unless the course which
he pointed out was pursued.
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL said what he hoped was
that there would bea well regulatedsystem ofemigration.
From his own experience he believed that emigration
to a great extent in Ireland would be most injurious, for
it would take out of the country a class that was most
valuable, namely, those who possessed a little money.
It was said that emigration would check itself, and he
believed that such would be the case ; and he believed
that they would have a reflux from the shores of the
Atlantic. He, for one, would be glad to see other coun-
tries colonised by Irishmen, who would carry out the
feelings of Irish origin.
Lord J. MANNERS said, that although the Hon.
Gentleman who had last sat down had concluded with a
well merited eulogium on Mr. Godley, yet there was one
remark which ought to be notieed by some Members of
the House; that remark was, that the effect of Mr. God-
ley's plan would be to throw some two millions of starv-
ing human beings on the shores of America, or their
own Canadian colonies, without the means of subsistence.
He denied that this assertion was founded on fact.
Sir W. JAMES wished to know from the Noble Lord
et the head of the Government, whether he had stated
that a special inquiry should be instituted into this
subject ?

Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that special inquiry
would be made, but not by a commissioner, as desired
by the Noble Lord.
Sir W. JAMES said, that the speech of the Noble
Lord at the head of the Government g.,t rid of the Noble
Lord's (Lincoln) motion by a species of side wind.
His speech was directed to the mere words, and not to
the substance of the motion of the Noble Lurd, and the
opposition which he offered was calculated to defeat the
fAid and aim which the motion contemplated, and which
it was almost universally admitted, would m:tigate the
evils under which Ireland was suff,ring.,
Mr. SCOTT could not but regret that the Noble Lord
had only adopted the words of the motion ; but he
trusted that, as there was to be an inquiry, that it would
embrace every branch of the subject.
Mr. AGLIONBY. felt convinced that the self-

supporting system of colonisation could be carried on
without entailing a farthing's expense, and he did hope
that system would have a fair trial.
Lord LINCOLN replied—He adhered to the views he
had endeavoured to explain in the early part of
that evening, and he could not retrain from
thinking that the inquiry would have been
better conducted if by a Special Commission.
He regretted, therefore, that the spirit as well as the
words of his resolution had been adopted by the Govern-
ment, but he was not without hopes that good would
result from the discussion.—The motion was agreed to.
Mr. BOUVERIE moved for copies of all corres-
pondence between the chairman of the board of guardians
of the union of Warminster and the Poor-law Com-
missioners, relative to the refusal of the vicar of
Warminster to bury Sarah Garrett, a paupk r
of that union. Of all correspondence between
the chairman and vice-chairman of the said
board of guardians and the Secretary of State for the
Home Department, on the same subject. Of all corres-
pondence between the Secretary of State for the Home
Department and the Diocesan of the said Vicar, upon
the same subject. The Hon Member was proceeding to
explain his reason for bringing forward the motion,
when,

Mr. HEALEY said that at that hour of the morning
he did not me the propriety of entering into a discus•
sion of this nature, and he should move that the House
be counted.

Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, when
there being only 31 Members present, the House stood
adjourned till to-morrow.

iING'S COLLEGE HOSPITAL, PORTUG lIL-STREET
LINCOLN'S INN-FIELDS.—The Right Hon. Sir Robert Peel
having intimated his intention of presiding at the eighth an,
niversary festival of the above truly valuable institution,
numerous noblemen and gentlemen of the highest distinction
have signified their willingness to promote the interests of
the charity by their presence, or by acting as stewards on the
interesting occasion. From the report of the secretary, Mr.
J. Lyon, it appears that during the past year the hospital
has received 1,170 individuals as resident patients, and
16,090 as out-door recipients, exclusive of nearly 500 poor
married women, who have been attended at their own homes
during their confinement by the medical officers of the insti-
tution. This extraordinary increase of patients, we regret to
add, has caused the expenditure of the year to exceed the
income by upwards of COOL
HUNGERFORD MARKET COMPANT.—The half-
yearly general meeting of the 'proprietors of this company
was held on Monday at the company's officts, Villiers-street,
Strand. Martin Stately, Esq., took the chair. The
secretary read tie directors' report, which, after referring
to the withdrawal, by the Commissioners of Woods and
Forests, of the Bill for the erection of a new bridge at
Westminster, stated that every effort having failed in en
deavouring to obtain the right of way reserved by the
Hungertord Market Company for steam-boat passengers
over the bridge, to and from the pier, toll free, the director,
had instituted a suit in Chancery to compel the bridg
directors to carry out their agreement in this respect, ant+
the Lord Chancellor had given his opinion that the Market
Company were not (as contended by the Bridge Company)
bound to di-tinguish steam-boat passengers who were to
have free access and right of la-sage to the n.rt ft pier, Ann
to the float pier, whence they were to embark in the vessel;
and it was quite clear that permission had been refii,en
by the Bridge Company, and that the Market Company
were thereby deprived if their right. In consequence or
this, the bridge Company had railed oft, and set apart a six
feet right of way over the bridge for steam- boat passengers.
which had proved efficient and sati-tactoty for the pur-
pose. Tne report then stated that the revenue of the
company continued to impr)ve, which gave great satis-
faction. The report was unanimously adopted. A vote
of thanks was passed to the chairman, board of directors, and
clerk, for the efficient and satistactory manner in which they
had conducted the affairs of the company.
THE FOREIGN MAILS FOR JUNE.--The following
notice, giving the dates in which the foreign mails will be
made up during the present month, was issued on Monday at
the General Post-office, St. Martin's-le-Grand :—" Madeira,
British and Foreign Colonies in the West Indies (except
Honduras, Bermuda, and Havannah) and Venezuela will be
made up on the morning of the 2d (to•morrow) and the
17th ; to be forwarded via Southampton, Mexico, Honduras,
and Havannah, on the morning of the 2d only. Bermuda,
San Juan de Nicaragua, New Granada, Chili, and Peru, ou
the morning of the 17th. Next packets due at Southamptui
on the 7th and 22d. The mails of to morrow will be con.
veyed by the Great Western steamer. Mediterranean, &c.—
The mails for Gibraltar, Malta, Greece, and the lonian
Islands, Egypt, Aden, Ceylon, India, Hong-Kong, and
China, will be made up on the morning of the 3d and even-
ing of the 19th. The mails of the 3d will be forwarded by
the Erin steamer for Southampton. By the Overland fort-
nightly closed mails to the Mediterranean, Egypt, India,
&c., on the evenings of the 7th and 24th, via Marseilles.
British North America, Bermuda, and.the United States, on
the evenings of the 3d and 18th, to be forwarded yid Liver-
pool. Halifax and Boston next packets due, the Britannia
steamer on the 15th, and HMernia steamer on the 30th.
Madeira, Brazils, and Buenos Ayres, on the evening of the
4th, to be forwarded by her Majesty's brig Seagull, from
Falmouth ; next packet due her Majesty's brig Swift, on
the 26th. Corunna, Rigo, Oporto, Lisbon, Cadiz, arm
Gibraltar, on the mornings of the 7th and 17th, and evening
of the 26th, rid Southampton ; next packets due, the Tiger,
on the 4th ; Madrid, on the 16th ; and Royal Tar steamer,
on the 25th. Sydney, New Sout Wales, Australia, vat:
Diemen's Land, and New Zealand, on the evening of the
30th from Gravesend.
BENEFIT FOR THE AGED MOTHER OF THE LATE
Ma. A- V. BROADFOOT.—It was our melancholy duty to re-
cord a few weeks since the sudden death of Mr. A. Y. Broad.
foot, the comedian. His exertions were one of the principal
means of support of an aged mother, who is now left without
his aid. Mr. R. Honner, of the City of London, has kindly
granted the use of his theatre for a benefit for Mr.
Broadfooes mother. this evening, June 2, when the follow-
ing ladies and gentlemen have kindly lent their assistance:—
Mr. R. E. Graham, Mr. E. F. Saville, Mr. Lyons, Mr. and Mrs.
Honner, Miss Martin, Mr. Herbert, Mr. Flexrnore, the cele-
brated buffo•clancer; Mr. W. F. Wallet, the Shakesperean
jester; and, by the kindness of Mr. Batty, the following ladies
and gentlemen from the Amphitheatre :—Mr. Barry, the
Hibernian clown; M. Pledge, the rope dancer; Mr. Harvey,
Miss Louisa Waite, and the ladies of the ballet, for a grand
entertainment; aided to which Mr. Carter, the Lion King,
has granted his Mammoth horse to appear for the this even-
ing. There cannot be a doubt that such a galaxy of talent
will secure a bumper house in this the cause of charity and
humanity.
ANOTHER EXTENSIVE FIRE AT STEPNEY.."--YeS•
terday, about half-past eight o'clock, the upper part of
Stepney College was discovered to be on fire. _ As several

personi were near at the time, there was no lack of assist-

ante, and very promptly the brigade tire-engines had been
procured by the police. Water having been procured, they
were worked vigorously, but in an hour the roof of the col-
lege was destryed, and other g,cat damage occasioned.
The college is believed to be insured. At to the origin of the
fire, trailing could be obtained.
SANDS.—LIVERPOOL, MONDAY.—
rhis screw steatn-ship arrived in the 111,1 bey at an early
i..ur this morning, in a little over 18 days front Ntw
York, having
sailed on the 11th instant. A large remit-
tance ofeaclaangs may
be expected by this vessel,