The Sun.
London, England, 1840-04-14 00:00:00

EVEN IN G EDITION .

as to tue attempt of Courts of Law to interfere with the
other privileges of that House was entirely left open ;
and if
he was persuaded that it was clearly the
deliberate intention of the Courts of Law to fritter
4!"Y, or to dispute, or to undermine the necessary pri-
vileges of that House, he should certainly have some
hesitation as to the expediency of agreeing to any Act of
Parliament on this subject.—(" Hear," from the Solicitor-
General.) But he did not believe that any such inten-
t
Jon had existed. He believed that the feeling of the
Judges was, that this was a point that had never been
decided, and on their conscientious examination of
all the authorities on the subject, they came
to an opinion which great legal authorities in that
HOO5O declared to be contrary to law, and which
all the leading Members of the House considered to
be contrary to its privileges, and which he believed the
great body of the public considered to be inconsistent
with communication of information, which they ought
to have respecting the proceedings of Parliament.
Be did not believe that decision to be grounded
de-
stroy o any wilful intention of the Judges to diminish or de-
the privileges of the House of Commons ; but upon
theirr conscientious opinion that they were doing their
auty, as the Judges of the land. Believing that was their
real and bona fide intention, he did not think that they
contemplated any future interference with the pri-
vileges of the House. In other respects, he should at all
times, however, maintain the privileges of the Commons
of England, as he had maintained them in the case in
question.—(Hear, hear.)
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL had attentively
considered the amendments, and it appeared right to him
t_o call the attention of the House to their effects. He
thought it would be inconvenient to again agitate in that
!louse a question which had been already decided, that
IS the propriety or impropriety of passing the Bill as it
went up to the House of Lords.—(Hear, bear.) But
'ing that the Bill came back ten times more
Objectionable, carrying every objection to the ex-
treme, doing that which was professed to be discla med—
he thought it necessary to state to the House
what his impressions were. He begged to call atten-
tion to what was the object of the original Bill. The
House was avowing that which it had never avowed be-
fore, for if it had it never would have been
ao independent branch of the Legislature. That
avowal was, that the House was incompetent, of
itself,
to maintain its own privileges.—(Hear.)
h avowal, under such circumstances, must neces-
sarily give rise on future occasions (unless they
were warranted in assuming that the present was
the last time their privileges would be called
to question) t• great embarrassment. The desire
not to produce such embarrassment he should have
thought had been made pretty apparent. When mea-
'lures were proposed sto be taken on a former oc-
retsion, it was suggested that these measures would
ad to the apprehension that the House intended
t° submit its privileges to the decision of a
Court of Law. That intention was disclaimed, and
the Court ultimately decided against the House. They
Were thus placed in a position of great embarrassment,
and that embarrassment had followed them up to the
present moment. The House had, therefore, a severe
caution, as to the course it should pursue, and should
Cot lay the foundation of difficulties which were calcu-
lated to produce much inconvenience.—(Hear.) He
wished now to call the attention of the House to the
nature of the amendments that had been made. If
thoY were admitted that House had lost its
Place in the Constitution, and had ceased to have any
Power as an independent branch of the Legislature.
The Court of Queen's Bench had laid it down that that
House had no privileges, and that not only that Court,
but every other in the kingdom, had a right
to review every privilege the House claimed.
With that judgment standing, it behoved the House to
be extremely careful. Besides that judgment, they ought
t 0 bear in mind what had since occurred. When the
Mouse proceeded to commit the Sheriffs for contempt,
an!d they were brought up by habeas, insinuations
were thrown out against that House, because of its
having made a particular return, and although those
Gentlemen were re-committed, they knew, from what
bad fallen from one of the Learned Judges, that they
considered they had the power to review the grounds
of a committal by that House. The privileges of the
House did not stand upon the same ground as before
these occurrences ; it behoved the House to be ex-
ceedingly cautious.—(Hear.) He had every respect for
the Courts of Law in Westminster Hall, and with re-
spect to the Queen's Bench—in that Court he had
met with much kindness ; and with respect to the Chief
Justice, he had a high personal respect and esteem
for him, but he was not at all prepared to compliment
the Court at the expense of the people of England
--(Cieeers)—or the authority of Parliament. The
clause in the Bill complimenting the Bench was totally
without precedent ; it was an unheard of principle that
a Court should feel itself affronted because the Queen,
Lords, and Commons, should interfere to stop the pro-
ceedings in an action. The action was to be stopped
by the Act of Parliament, as it had been done in for-
mer times. In acts of indemnity it was done by de-
claring that all actions shall be discontinued and made
void by virtue of the Act. No Judges asked to inter-
l'ere—no Court called upon to make any order—no no-
tice to those who had suffered for the public good—the
public interests were promoted at the expense of the
individual ; but when the Act was passed no notice was
given him, but the action ceased by virtue of the Act.
In a revenue action the same thing was done. In the
act for arranging the Prince of Wales's debts there was
1 a declaration that ttU actions should be null and void, to
1 all intents and purposes. Why, therefore, he would
ask, were the Courts to be called upon to interfere ?
Were they to have any discretion ? If they were not,
for what purpose but that of affronting that House,
Were they to be called upon to interfere?—(Hear,
hear.) But his main objection to the amendment was
placed upon much higher ground. That House had
denied, upon clear principles of law, that the Court.of
Queen's Bench had jurisdiction over the question, and
yet, by the present amendment, they were to appeal to
that Court. This, in his opinion, was carrying the
mischief infinitely farther than it was before ; because
the House would become a litigant party with the de.
fendant ; they would have to give Mr. Stockdale no-
tice, and appear before the Court as a contending party
against him. This was, in his opinion, giving an affront
to the House unnecessarily and wantonly. He thought,
therefore, there was no ground for the insertion of the
Passage proposed by the House of Lordi, and he ob-
jected, therefore, upon principle, to the alterations
that had been made.—(Hear, hear, hear.) If the
Bill were passed in its present form, much time
would not elapse before it would be found that it re-
quired amendment. The Bill since it left that House,
has been altered by some person not quite familiar with
those proceedings. As the Bill now stood, during any
vacation between the Easter and Trinity terms, any
person would have the power of bringing an action, and
1 proceeding to judgment, unless the particular Judge, in
whose Court the action was brought, happened to be
in town. But that was only required in the case of
i actions against officers of the House, but for the in-
demnity of persons publishing without the authority of
the House, the party might go to any one of the fifteen
Judges.—( Hear, hear.) That might be altered by
striking out the words " any Judge of the same." Then
he objected to the twenty-four hours' notice. Suppose
1 a party like Mr. Stockdale chose to keep out of the
way, and appeared only by his attorney, how could his
residence be found ? He (the Solicitor-General) had
never yet found words so distinct, or so positive, that
he could make sure of them.—(Hear, hear, and
laughter.) He had no confidence in the Judges to
decide that which by law they were not entitled to
• decide. Although he respected the Judges as much as
any man, yet when he found them coming to a conclu-
sion that the privileges claimed by that House were
monstrous, and that it was a tyranny under which no
Englishman ought to live—when he found the
same claim of privileges acknowledged in both
. Houses of Parliament, as absolutely necessary
for their legislative functions, he would say that
considering the infirmity of human judgment,
he thought the House betrayed its duty when it sub-
mitted its privileges to be decided by that Court, be-
cause it might do again what it had done before,
The privileges of that House were framed to protect
them against dishonest judges—he did not mean to
include the present men, but if they legislated in con-
y fidence of the present Judges and withdrew the pro-
tection which the House had, he thought they were
Proceeding upon very infirm and mistaken grounds.
They must protect themselves from the decisions of
dishooest, ignorant, and mistaken men. With regard
to the other amendments he owned they excited in
him smite surprize. It was stated that the power of
Publication possessed by the House was most mischie-
vous, and ought not to be tolerated. The clause, if
adopted, would require amendment if it were to be of
r any value. :(f a person were prosecuted for publishing
a copy of any proceedings ordered to be published by
the House, the defendant was to lay the copy before
the Judge. Now how was he to
get the copy ?
(Hear, hear.) The copy for the publication
of which
he was prosecuted would be in possession of the pro-
secutor, who would take espec;al care not to give it
°P, az it would be a material piece of evidence for
hi.
What provision was there to enable him to obtain it.
--(Hear, hear, hear.) The defendant was also to
Produce the report. Now what was the meaning of
that? Was he to produce one of the printed copies
Published by Messrs. Hansard, or the original k maned-
script ?
How he was to procure them he e i
not know, and then he was to compare the two
and make his affidavit. A person thus circum-
stanced was not, like the officers of the House,
confined to the Court in which the proceedings were
tcommenced, but he might make application to any of
she Judges. In fact, the whole of this was not a little
loose.—( Cheers and laughter.) Now, suppose a per-
son, under these circumstances, indicted at. the Surrey
Assizes. Those Assizes were held by Commission. As
soon as the proceedings were over, the Court was dis-
"v(gcl—t)tere was no Court remaining. Under these
circumstances, to whom was the defendant to apply to
stay proceedings ? How could he apply to a Judge of
the Court? He did not believe that any Judge would