The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-22 00:00:00

POOR REMOVAL ACT.

The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH presented a petition
against the provisions of the Poor Removal Act of last
year.

PUBLIC WORKS (IRELAND).
Lord BROUGHAM was disposed to ask for a return
connected with a circumstance connected with the pre-
sent distress in Ireland, and the evils of the system
of labour in public works. He well knew that it was
illogical to argue from a use to an abuse. but
as illustrative of this state of things, he would cell the
attention of their Lordships to the representations made
by the Rev. Robert Brown on the subject of public works
in that part of Ireland with which he was more intimately
connected. The statement of the Rev. Gentleman was,
that a presentment having been made for 3001. for the pur-
pose of constructing 72 yards of road, not to spoil the road,
but to improve it. But a Gentleman—Mr. Flaherty—
came forward and said, that he could get the road done
for two-thirds less than the Government could, and a
survey was made ; the road was given to the contractor
recommended by Mr. Flaherty. The work was exa-
mined when completed, and it was found that only
36 yards had been constructed, thus proving a very dear
work to the country. The contractor, he might inform
their Lordships, was a brother of Mr. Flaherty. The
Reverend Gentleman mentioned that cruel distress
which prevailed among a poor population of 20,000
persons, who were comparatively neglected by the
upper and sustained by their equals of the lower classes.
lie might also inform their Lordships that
he was in possession of much information,
with respect to the pauper immigration into different
parts of Scotland, and the result of inquiries showed
that, in almost every case, these persons had re-
ceived money from the landlords, the relieving officer,
or the priests, for the purpose of taking them out
of Ireland into the sister country. He wished
to suggest to those worthy persons, the relieving officers
of Ireland, that theirs was a dangerous experiment,
for he (Lord Brougham) perfectly remembered when
two churchwardens were tried at York for furthering a
marriage in another parish, that being held to be a con-
spiracy. The sending paupers into this country was a
parallel case.
The Earl of WICKLOW regretted that any such do-
cument as that which had just been presented should
have come before their Lordships, and that such a state-
ment should have been made, for the authorities to
whom reference had been made had no power whatever to
charge the electoral dissricts with expense. They had
no power whatever of giving relief in money, but those
who were advocates of what was called the clearing
system gave relief in any shape to any who were ready
to emigrate without much caring to what part of the
world they went. If the authorities of Glasgow had no
better plea than the one they had put forward, he feared
that they would be of but little service. For
his own part he was not at al surprised at
the immigration of Irish paupers into this
country, and he believed that before twelve months
elapsed that it would go on to an extent of which at
present there had been nothing like a parallel. Only
let them wait till next harvest, and they would see that
there would be thousands and tens of thousands of
labourers who would hurry into this country. The Go-
vernment bad introduced a poor-law into the other
House in the hope of stemming the torrent of
evil, and with a view to relieve this country
from the influx of pauperism from Ireland, but
he begged to warn their Lordships that no system
of poor-law would ever stop that evil, and he
did so in the hope that the wisdom of their Lordships
would be able to devise some other and better remedy.
There was an excellent ground for them to go upon,
from two circumstances—first, from the indisposition of
the landlords to throw their dependants upon others,
and, secondly, from the danger of throwing such a
number of persons like these upon the world. It was
not to be supposed that the able7bodied poor would
be content to take the sustenance provided at
the several poor-houses, but would in thousands
upon thousands enter this country to find the support
which was needed by them. He would warn their Lord-
ships that this influx would continue until there was a
probability that the poor of this country might become
completely and entirely destitute.
Lord BROUGHAM was quite aware of the difficulties
of the case, but if they would look to the last
report of the committee, at page 130, they would
find that Mr. Hughes had stated, that he had
found that Dr. Donnovan and Mr. Svrington had
applied the funds sent to them for the relief of the des-
titute poor in transmitting the paupers to places in Wales
to such an extent, that the mayor of Newport had pro-
tested against the practice. It was natural that, if there
was a poor-law in one part of the country, and none in
another, that the poor should go from the latter to the
former.

Lord MONTEAGLE could hardly express his indig-
nation at the course which it seemed had been pursued
by one of his countrymen, after the lavish munificence
which had been poured out, not only by their Lordships,
hut by the very poorest of this land in their behalf.
But he was convinced that the case which the Noble and
Learned Lord had referred to must be a rare and solitary
case ; for no funds were distributed for the relief of the
Irish poor except under the superintendence of public
officers is whom their Lordships had the fullest coofi-
dence. These gentlemen had access to the relief com
mittees to inspect their accounts, and the mode in which
the funds were applied, so that anything improper
must come to their ears, and would certainly
be reported to the Government, who would atop
the further supply of money. He must say that,
assuming the facts to be true as they had been repre-
sented, he could not but view the case with the utmost
indignation at such an abuse of the funds supplied by
the Government.

The Marquis of CLANRICARDE apprehended that
it was not from the money which had been so applied.
Lord BROUGHAM believed it to have been money
sent by private individuals for the relief of the poor.
Lord MONTEAGLE said it came to the same thing
in the end since money so sent was applied under public,
superintendence.

The Marquis of CLANRICARDE was strongly of
opinion that the funds so grossly unsupplied had been
supplied from private resources, But he must say that
if the Noble and Learned Lord would give him
the letter from which he bad quoted, he should cer-
tainly inquire into the fact► of the case. But
assuming the facts to be as they had been represented,
he must say that it bad been a gross abuse, and a gross
job practised on the funds supplied by the excessive be-
nevolence of this country.
BANKRUPTCY AND INSOLVENCY BILL.

Lord BROUGHAM rose to move the second reading
of this Bill. He said, as the subject was familiar
to most of their Lordships. and had the approbation
of the Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack,
and other learned Members of their Lordships' Howie
he did not find it necessary to enter into any long
statement on that occasion. But he would merely
state his object in moving their Lordships to
sanction the amendments proposed in the Bill. Their
Lordships would recollect that some years ago he had
introduced a Bill which had been passed by both Houses
into a law, abolishing imprisonment for small debts,
They were aware that that Bill provided that persons
apprehen,ive of arrest, if' they chose to appeal to the
Bankruptcy Court, give up ther property, and stand
their examination, would receive a protecting ord, r
from the Court; and if no hesitation to give up all their
property had appeared, or no contumacy, or no extra-
vagance, a final order was made by the Court,
which protected him against further proceedings on
the same debt. He (Lord Brougham), how-
ever, had since some reason for transferring
this jurisdiction to the Insolvent Commissioners
from the Bsankruptcy Commissioners. He
had been urged to do so originally, but he found that
the Bankruptcy Court worked well, and seemed to
have the preference over the other. For that
Court had more stringent power to execute
the objects for which the court had been erected, and,
therefore, many more applications were made to that
court. But those commissioners, unusual though it
was for judges, who commonly enlarged their jurisdic-
tion, had almost extinguished their jurisdiction.
The second was a still greater evil than the first. It
was extremely (inconvenient to mix up two diffe-
rent codes of laws, each to be administered by
the same judge ; and while, to make up the
third evil, the merchants and traders of the
city of London objected altogether to the insolvent law
being administered in the Bankruptcy Courts. Now,
in addition to 5001., each Commissioner received a
salary of 2,0001. There were six of them; but he did
not think there would be six long—for, from a return he
held in his hand, he found that they did not work more
than twenty weeks a year with the insolveat busi-
ness, and, when that was taken from them
by this Bill, the number would bs reduced
to fifteen or sixteen weeks a year. Now, it was too bid
to pay six commissioners 2,000/. a year .each for
so small a quantity of labour, besides six regis-
trars at 1,000/. a ear each, and official assig-
nees at not less than 2,0004 to 3,0004 a year.
lie proposed, therefore, that the insolvency business
should be taken away from the Court of Bankruptcy,
andt then the Commissioners would be rednced from six
thethrewe.olutidwbaes tbhueisircio.epnitn,ion, he knew, that two Commis-
sioners_commweoruclidaidaoff,aiarsndwpoeurlhaps for all ordinary purposes
in bduta
reveryise
whichn w awnoduthen a
augment
crisisen t
the business. In "order to meet any increased business
in the Court from this circumstance, be thought
three would be the best number to propose.