The Sun.
London, England, 1812-01-17 00:00:00

THE KING'S HOUSEHOLD.

On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the Ex-.
CHEQUER, the Order of the Day fbr the House
going into a Committee of the whole House, on
so much of the Lords Commissioners' Speech as
relates to his Majesty's Household, was read, and
the House resolved itself into the Committee.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in rising
to submit to the Committee those measures, which,
under existing circumstances, it might be proper for
them to adopt, felt it to be impossible to avoid ad-
verting to what, had been the Louise pursued in the
last Session of Parliament. Doing this, it was not
his wish to revive those controversies which had
then taken place, but to take a proper view of what
was the present state of
,the great objet of their de-
liberations, as compared with what it was at the
former period. The House must feel with great re-
gret the difference between the situation in which
they were placed at present and that in which they
had formerly stood. When last the subjed:came
under their consideration, they could nut but rdco-
lea how sanguine were the expettations of his Ma-
jesty's speedy recovery, and they must necessarily
bear in mind what now was the prospect: below
them. Then they had reason to hope that before
any great length of time had elapsed, the Sovereign
would be enabled to resume his Kingly functions ;
but bow, unfortunately, the prospect was very much
darkened. Instead of having before them state-
ments from the attendant Physicians, declaring there
was a great probability of Ms recovery, they bad it
now, on the authority of the same persons, that re-
covery was very imprubable, but yet not altogether
hopeless. It was impossible not to see that differ-
ent circumstances must call forth different mea-
sures. The course of human action must necessa-
rily be guided by events. It was not for men to
foresee what would actually occur, and their best
plans could only be formed to meet that which could
rationally be expected. Formerly, when recovery
was probable, it was their duty primarily to look to
.0e restoration of his Majesty to health, and to the
.e,xercise of the Sovereign Authority, but, at the
,same time, to guard against any inconvenience t ha
ur4t arise from the temporary suspension of the

Kingly funaions ;' no* when recovery was stated fo
be highly improbable, it was for them to look pri-
marily to the improbability of his Majesty's resum-
ing the Sovereign power, not leaving,out of sight
that it was possible he might yet recover. Formerly
they were called upon to 'make an arrangement
which it was probable circumstances would only
render necessary for a short period, now it was ex;
pedient to form one which might be expeCted to be
permanent. The state of his Majesty's health, at
present, was represented to. be such, that recovery
was very improbable, though not altogether hope-
less. The Physician who was most sanguane, Dr.
Simmons, had stated, that in younger cases about
half !ha :number affiieted usually recovered ; but in
cases of persons who were more than seventy years
of age, the recoveries were but as one in five. He
had, however, added, that in the case of the King,
from.tlie singular strength of his Majesty's constitu-
tion, he should rather class him with those who
were hut of sixty, than with those who were seventy
years of age. It was therefore their duty; under all
the melancholy circumstances of the case, to con-
sider that, as one in five of those who were so afflict-
ed when more than 70 years of age recover, they were
not to consider his Majesty's recovery as mote hope-
less than. in that proportion, if the extraordinary
strength of his constitution furnished no additietral-
ground for hope. He would now proceed to lay be-
fore them what he conceived to be the principal eb-
jeals which they had to keep in view. In the first
instance, the exercise of the Royal Authority- Leh%
suspended in the person of the King, it had been
necessary.for them to consider in what manner it
should be supplied ; and in the next place, they
were to take into their consideration the nature of
the proVision.which it would be necessary to make
for the maintenance and comfort of the King during
his illness. With respect to the first, a provision
had already been made for supplying the executive
power, which gave to the Prince the full powers of
Royalty at the expiration of six weeks from the com-
mencement of the present Session ; so that, as the
law now stood, by about the 18th ot. February, all
the authority, as well as all the duties of the Sove-
reign, would devolve of i him, and, unless some pro-
vision was made for his Majesty's Household, the
Civil List also; if nothing were done by Parlia-
ment, the Executive Power would be complete, but
there would be no arrangement for the maintenance
and comforts of the King. The House had in their
view, in the last Session of Parliament, the neces-
sity of making such an arrangement, and therefore
provided that •the restrictions on the Regent should
continue till six weeks after the Houses had met,
in order to give them an opportunity of coesi-
dering of what they were now called upon to con-
sider, namely, of making a provision suitable to
maintain the dignity, and supply the comforts which
were necessary to. his Majesty's present situation.—
On this subject, two considerations naturally sug-
gested themselves : the first was, from what fund,
and from what source, were the' provision and at-
tendants to be drawn the second %vies, as to.the
nature and extent of the provision to be made ?
With respect to the first, _he thought he need
have no hesitation in saying, that his Maj,
s-
ty's present Civil List, and his present officers
and Servants, ought to constitute the fund and
the source from which the necessary provi-
sions and attendants should he taken. It was not
in the ordinary course of things, when making a
provision for an individual, in his Majesty's present
situation, to draw it from any other source than that
which might be considered as peculiarly his own: -In
making the arrangement which he should have the
honour to propose, it was their duty to look not on-
ly to the probability or improbability of his Majes-
ty's recovery, but to have in their contemptation
another event, which was perhaps more likely and
more probable than his ultimate recovery. That
event was a partial recovery, whichithough not such
as to 'At,:him for resuming the reins of Govern-
ment, might yet afford him the means of tasting
more cotnfort and enjoyment than he could parti-
cipate in. at present ; a state in which he might be
so .far iestored to reason, as to be sensible of what he
was and what he is. In the event of his so far
awaking to a sense of his situation, it was natural
to suppose that -his feelings Would be less hurt, to
find net merely:the same individuals about him who
had formerly attended him, but the same Officers
he had been used to, than to find every thing
changed, and himself attended by new Officers, ot
whose names and of whose business he had previ-
ously no knowledge. The House would feel, that,
in agreeing to .any arrangement that might be pro-
posed, it was their duty not'to deny any thing that
was necessary or desirable, but at the same time to
be anxious, to pay proper attention to.economy,
and to make the arrangement as little burthensome
to the public as possible. It was not, however, pos-
aible, for any one who took a view of the subject, to
think that the double establishment necessary to
maintain a Regent and a King, could be conducted
at as little expense as the establishment Of the King
alone. Some additional provision, it would be seen,
was necessary, and if a suitable and satisfactory ar-
rangement could be mad-, which would not occa-
sion any, additional expense of more than 70,0001.
per ante he trusted the appropriation of such a sum
to that purpose would not appear by,any means-an
extravagant or imprudent arrangement. This en
creased' expenditure would he met by an addition to
the Civil List of 70,0001. If he was right in think:
ing that the present household of his Majesty was
that to which they ought to look to Supply his Ma-
jesty's future servants, ha would propose to take
from it the highest officer, namely, the Lord
Steward, whese office had several duties belonging
to it connected with the person who exercised
the Royal authority. 'The same, or nearly the same
observation would apply to the offit e of Lord Cham-
berlain: It was necessary to pass by these. He
should therefore, come to the first Gentleman of the
bed-chamber, commonly called the Groom of the
Stole. This Officer, he thought, might properly be
placed at the tread of the new establishment. It
was obvious, the Officer so eledted would of neces-
sity have . new duties to perform, as lie would pro-
pose that the power of .soperintending the whole es-
tablishment should be conferred on him. It was
not however possible to suppose, that this Officer
could always be on the spot ; he therefore thought
it would be necessary to appoint a deputy for him.
To fill this office he would propose that another in-
dividual of known name and rank—the Vise-Cham-
berlain, shoulcfbe seleeted. Some of the Lords and
Grooms of thy Bed-chamber, it would. be expeol-

id, should still be continued about his Majec.
tv, Four of each he thought Would be anffi
amply tospei form all the necessary duties, 'yet not
too many for that purpose. 1-1;.• seiould therefore pro-
P use that these should be selected from his Majes-
ty's preset!, household. A Master of the Robes, lA-..
thought, at-el seven Equerries, he thought, shouldalso
be c •ntinued, making the total number of persons'
attendant on t,is Majesty, twenty eight. The
Gro •m of the Stole wouid require a Secretary, and
it would also be expedient that a private Secretary
should be appointed fur n, r IVlaje,ty. This portion
of the Household, there could be no doubt, ought
to be entrusted to the .seinagement of the person
charged with the care of his Majesty, namely, her
Majesty the Queen. The principal officers to be
appointed by her Majesty, the subordinate ones by
the Groom of the Stole.-.To meet these arrange.,
ments he thought it better at once to take a sum out
of the CIVIF List, subject to the superinten :ante of
the Treasury, in order that if the sum taken should
be more than necessery,e he surplus might be return..
ed ; and that if there should be any excess of ex-
pense, Parliament should be applied to to make good
the deficency. The sum which he coneeived would
be sufficient, for ibis purpose, even were the King
,to remain at Windsor, was 100,0001. This he con.
ceived would suffice, 'not only for the bill disbarse-
tuents, but for the payment of the salaiies of all
the Officers he had named. He founded this state-
ment on what had been the expenses of the King's
establishment at Windsor for the last year. Ile
would- now offer a few observations _ with re-
speel to the nature of the provision to be
made. Nothing could be more extravagant than
to suppose that the same number of equi-
pages was necessary for his Majesty in, his pre-
sent state as in his former state. Taking this into
consideration, he found that the expenditure of the
last year had been from a hundred and fair to a hun-
dred and eight thousand pounds.; and he appre-
hended that the sum lie had mentioned would b 3
enough for the support of his Majesty, and for pros
viding every thing necessary to his present situation.
At the same time it would be obvious to the public,
that he did not call for more than sufficient. Ile
next came to consider the situation of her Majesty.
It could not be expeaed That she could continue (as
she had hitherto done in so exemplary a manner)
stationary ; and it could -riot be doubted, that if for
her health or amusement she should find it neces-
sary to remove to any other part, a greater expence
must be incurred, to meet which some provision
ought to be made. With thii feeling, he thought
it would net be unreasonable, to grant her Majesty,
for such purposes, out of the Civil List, the stun of
10,0001. a year. The last provision which it was
necessary to consider related to 'those pensioners
who were the -objects of his Majesty's private
bounty. These,--he, thought, might properly be
continued on that fund which had hitherto borne
them. It apreaied to him that the House would
think it necessary to make some provision tbr
these, and in so doing to appoint an auditor of the
accounts ccufieled with them, in order to provide
against, any misspplization of the fund. He shuu:d
propose the appointment of a Secret Cornmiriee, si-
milar to • that of last Session, to inquire into the
nature of these pensions. He would also propose
that his Majesty's medical attendants should be paid
out of his Majesty's Privy-purse ; this could not ap-
pear unreasonable, as his Majesty would unquesti•n-
ably have defrayed those expences out of his Privy_ -
pulse, had it remained at his disposal, He pro-
posed to take 10,0001. from, his Majesty's Duchy
of Lancaster to meet in part the exPences neces-
sarily incurred. These expences -would altogether
amount to 180,00011 a year, viz. 100,0001. for his
Majesty's Household, 70,0001. for the Private Pen-
sions, &c. and 10,0001. for her Majesty. Ten
thousand pounds of this sutra would be derived (as
he had before stated) from the Duchy of Lancaster,
and 70,0001, from the proposed addition to the Civil
List. Time remained the deficiency of 100,0001:
to be provided for out of the Civil List, so that 'his
Royal Highness the Prince Regent would have
100,0001. a-year less than his Royal Father' had en.
joyed. For the Management of his Majesty's pri-
vate property, he.would recommend the appoint..
ment of a Commission (one"of the Commissions be-
ing a MaSter in Chancery) to be named by her Ma.
jesty and the Prince Regent. These Commission.
ers should be empoWeted to manage and superin-
tend the whole of those affairs, and to call before
them any persons therein concerned. They would
,aa on oath, not ito divulge the proceedings which
' came before them, and-being interested in the matt.-
ner in which the surplus was to be applied, he
thought they would he the most proper persons to
audit the accounts. He now arrived at the consi-
deration of the situation in which his Royal High-
ness the Prince-Regent having the Civil List return..
ed to him 100;0001. a year less
. than had been al-
lowed to his Majesty. The most easy way to en-
able him to possess it to the sameextent, would be to
vote at once I 00,0001.0ut of the Consolidated Fund, •
and extinguish his Exchequer revenue. It vvasents
tural, however, to suppose, that the Prince-bad on-
derstood the income arising to him out of the Ex-
chequer should be continued to him till he came into
the possession of the Monarchy itself. It therefore
would not be-,fair to him,- or. to those who might
have-claims on this revenue, to disturb that suppty
and consequently the sum wanted-should be taken
trout some other quarter. The House might think
it better to leave that revenue, which they knew
amounted to 120,0001. subject at present to a &due-
, Lion of 12,0001. per annum, for the Income Tax •
(which would:now cease), at the disposal of the
Prince, and thet,it might be unjust to take from
him the means of. sesisfying the claims on him. He
would however propose, that of his Exchequer in_
come, .50,0061.".1h0n1d be transferred to the Civil
List, instead of being paid to him, which would leave
of that fundlo,oool. untouched. It was to be
presumed that the Household expenses of the
Regent, from the • circumstance of his family being
s the b before f
so
uur
oet
ennnoat stated,fc)s:u on
ot and
ou
so much smaller than that of his Majesty, would
not be so great- la- taking therefore 100,0001. from
athdediCogivtiloLitisitroifnocihtehe
Exchequer Pu rPi
1.
a diminution of 60,0001. would remain-, whin!, it
the
es
Prince'sthougl) thought mightaoer bfaemdiil7,eatinsdetel
consequently
smaller
expenditure., It would be an act of injustice, lie
must observe, if they were to transfer the Civil.4st
to the Prince, as being solvent, to defray the Ix-
pences of his .Majesty, when it was teetorious that
this was not the fad. In order to fully explain this,

he had moved for the estimated charges on the Civil
List, as they were laid before the House in 1804,
together with the aelnal charges of each subsequent
year. From these accounts it would be seen that in
the year immediately following—in 1805—ti, ex-
cess was 120,0001. and in the subsequent years up to
the present time, as follows

In 18e6
JBo3
ao,
18to
1811.

A:.161,006
138,006
89,n00
103,009
143,°,0
110,000

The average, it would be seen, might be taken at
123 or 124,0001.'annually. The House were aware
how this excess had been met, that it had been paid
not out of the public revenue, but out of the funds
arising from the excess of the Scotch Civil List, and
the Admiralty Droits. The House would fed it
improper to apply to the public to pay this excess as
long as there were other funds to meet it, bUt it was
necessary, in the event of any increase in the excess,
to give Parliament the earliest notice of it.' It might
have been expeeted, that when it was found the ar-
rangements made in 1804 were insufficient to meet
the charges of the Civil List, that some notice would
have been taken of it, but no formal notice bad been
taken of it from that time to the present. He would
propose-that as long as, by means of unappropriated
funds; the annual average excess of 23 or 24,0001.
could be met, should be defrayed by no other;
but if it should increase so as to exceed its present
average, by I 0,0001. that should be deemed sufficient
to bring the subjea before Parliament to meet their
animadversions, if they shluld be deserved. He
was afraid that his statement would not be clearly
understood by many • - but with the indulgence of
the House, he would' offer a few words on one
other point. He thought it would be nothing but
wha: must- be felt to be. perfeElly reasonable-to make
some provision for the expences which had already
been incurred by His Royal Highness the Prince Re-
gent.. :When his-Royal Highness first assumed the
royal Etna ions, with sanguine hopes that his. Majesty
wouldsoon be restored to his people, he had declined
receiving any assistance whatever. It could nut;
however, be supposed that he could assume the reins
of government, in the name of his Majesty, without
incurring a very considerable expence. To meet
this, he should therefore propose a grant of the sum
of 100,0001. He had now stated all that it was ne-
ce.ssary to bring before the House. The 160,0001.
he bad just mentioned would, he thought, be deem-
ed a very small sum when the object to which it
was to be applied was considered. The-70,0001. to
be added to the Civil List was the only permanent
charge to be-made on the Consolidated Fund ; and,
'he trusted that the Committee would feel that the
artangements 'necessary to be made for the splen-
dour of the Regent-and the comforts of the King,
could not be accomplished' at a less expence. He
therefore moved, that a.proVision should be made for
the purpose of enabling the Queen to meet the in-
creased expence,-by granting, in aid of the Civil
List, the sum- of 70,0001. to be paid out of the Con-
solidazed-Fund.

PoriBobv, entertained.no disposition to cri-
tictie the proptisiCions'‘iifiich 'the Right Honourable
Gentleman. had -submitted for the consideration of
the Committee, he only rose for the purpose of mi.
nig, with the utmost &Terence, that those proposi-
tions to embrace more of complexity than
bad ever been broUght within the view of Parliament.
The Plan might, in hi. opinion, have been redtned
to the sirriplicity. The considerations which
uaturally arose cut of the plan were, in the fist
place,' what would be the amount of the expence
fir carrying the plan into effect ?, and, secondly,
u healer ground of necessity exists. for inducing alb
Right Hon. Gentleman to call upon- Parliament to
burthen the country with that expence. In enter-
ing into these considerations, he must reverse the

order presented by the Right Hof. Gent. and take
the latter part of the statement first. The Right Hon.
Gentleman had said that the Civil List expenditure
was greater than the provision made, and that con-
.eqtently the Committee must expect to be called
upon to provide.for the deficiency: that might be
very true, but uninformed as he (Mr. P.) WWI 01)
ti:e subject, it could wit be expected by the Right
Hon. Gentleman that he would come to the conclu-
sion Before he could.consent to enlarge the
Tecennes of the Civil List, he must have some better
pr.of of the necessity, than the mere allegation of
the Right Honoutable Gentleman. The public
would expect to be satisfied also, that neither negli-
gence, nor extravagance in the expenditure were to
be fall() to cause the excess. Would any Gentle-
man bejmtitied in giving his vote without other
proof ? The tflost.6inple way of bringing before Par;
liamentshe regulation; to be made would have been

this : :You. voted Certain sums necessary for the ex-
pence4 Of the Crown, and also for defraying the ex-
', pense4 of the GoVertunett, The revenues appropri-
ated to the support and-splenclour of the Throne, are
about to be transferred to the person on whom the
functions of Royalty des,..:end, in consequence of the
'oh-foram:llr situation of the reigning- Monarch; to
that person might• be given all that 'Parliament, by
its vote, had thought necessary for the support of
the Croton, u) Ins discretion might be left the
proVi-sion for maintaining the splendour of his Ma-
levy. The Ri,iht Hon. Gentleman had said the
Report of the Physicians must impress on the minds
of every one ihat it was necessary for the mainte
ranee of hi 3 Mijo.sty's state and civil comfort, that
all the splendour now propnsed should be agreed to.
There was no man more ready than he (Mr. P.) to
contribute to the Comfort and happiness of his M 3,
jelty, if he thought splendour in h is unfortunate
Nation could produce the desired effect; but on
'looking over the evidence of the Physicians he did
ot see oue word which could justify the opinion;
that statement conveyed. The Rightlion. Gentle-
man talked of the " middle state in which his Ma-

jes7 might pos:ibly•he placed," but the report did
not even premise that such would be the case.-=-
Did the Right Hon, G.2ntlernan, when he attended
the Committee, ever ask the Physicians any ques-'
tion which-could lead him to expe& that his Ma-

The Right Hon. Gentkenan would 6nd little tom.
fort or consolation in the evidence of Dr. Simmons,
who held similar opinions, when he added, " that
he never knew an instance of a blind person reco-
vering from insanity; that in the whole of his
praaice in the Hospital he had known seven or
eight persons in that situation, and those he called
unfortunate -cases of the kind. What was there
then in the partiCular case of "his Majesty, which
made a larger establishment necessary ?: Could
his Majesty see any of the officers proposed to be
placed about his person ? Was it in proof, that in
any one instance,within the last few months, that any
one of the high officers of the household had ap-
proached his person ? The Right Hon. Gentleman
might say, that his Majesty might at some future
period return to mental health. The same might
have been said last year, when the restrittions on
the Regent were proposed. But if his Majesty
should happily be relieved from his present cala-
mitouS situation, would not Parliament make pro--
vision for his resuming the Regal Functions, and
necessarily provide fur all the splendour attached
to Royalty ? There was another part of the plan
which he did not - think necessary. It was pro-
posed to allow her Majesty ten thousand pounds per.
annum, because his Majesty kept fewer carriages
40: horses than when exercising the Royal Func-
tions. 'Was that a reason for Kopp-sing this alloW-
ance ? When the King was in health, he used
those carriages and horses, and, therefore, they
could not be necessary for the comfort of the. queen.
With `respect to the proposition for taking 100,0001.
from the Civil List, on the ground that the family
of the Prince Regent was net so large as the family
of his Majesty, he (Mr. Ponsonby) was not much
acquainted with the Civil List expenditure, and
could not offer art opinion further than this, that he
believed that the greatest part of the expenses aria-
jilg out of that Revenge did not originate in the
manner stated, but would be the same whether the
Sovereign's family was great or small. All that he
intended by these observations, was to make it
clear to the public that the Parliament were jus-
tified in voting the additional grants. There was
another part of the plan of which he professed
his ignorance, namely, the necessity of voting
100,0001. to the Regent for defraying the expenses
of accepting the Government. It Was well known
that on the occasion of the Regency, his Royal
Highness refused to accept the Government upon
those terms ; therefore the Right Hon. Gentfeman
could not now exped from Parliament any vote
which was not strictly corre& and fair. Not hav-
ing the whole of the resolutions before him, he
was not prepared to comprehend the plan, though
be did not mean to object to it in all its parts; at
the same time, he Wished that the Reigning Mo-
narch should have all the splendour which properly
belonged to his station.
The CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER did not
think the Resolutions when on the table, would give
the Right Hon. Gentleman that particular insight
into the plan, which.he was so desirous of obtain-
ing. The natural course of proceeding wouict be,
to wait until the Bill was before the HouSe, when
the information would be afforded. As to the com-
plication of the plan, the Committee would do him
the justice to recollect, that he had so expressed
himself in detailing it, and had referred Gvntlemen

to the Bill, as better calculated to give that neces-
sary explanation. The Resolutions were merely
the first step, the Bill would be read (if the Commit-

jesty would attain that state The questions were
all as•to the sanity and insanity of the Monarch's
tnind, and the .Physiciatis all concurred in opinion
that no such imddle state was expeeled. ate had

tee agreed to the Resolution 9 on Monday, and the
different .stages might be discussed, as it was not in-
tended to be hurried through the House. When
the Right Hon. Gentleman talked of not com-
prehending the propositions, he was at a loss to con-
' ceive what was wanting -to induce that com-
prehension, for the Right Hon. Gentleman agreed
that his 1.143 j sty's comforts were necessary. «/3s
• he not still our King, and was it right that he should
be stript of every appearance of dignity ? The Right
Hon. Gentleman appeared to quarrel with the pro-
posed appointments about the Royal Person, and
talked of there being too many Lords of the Bed-
chamber, Eve' nes, &c. because the Physicians con-
ifidered the case of his Majesty as. hopeless. He
did not believe, though the Right lion. Gentleman
made these objeetions, that he seriously entertained
an opinion or wish in his mind, that the only esta-
blishmenl necessary was a comfortable maintenance
in a sick chamber. Sure he was that the feeling
of the House, of the public, and of the Right
Honourable Gentleman, would sanCtion such a vote.
To dispense with all the dignity attendant on the
Sovereign was repugnant to the feelings of the na-
tion at large. The Right Hon. Gentleman had in-
sinuated; that he (Mr. Perceval) had not dis-
charged his duty' in the Committe, in not question-
ing the Physicians as to*theanobability of his Ma-
jesty being restored to mental health but he
would a,k in return,was there any thing in the slate
of his Majesty's health which required the particu-
lar inquiry on that point ? and was it nut neces-
sary for Parliament to make provision for the re-
sumption of th,e Royal Authority in the person of
the Sovereign, if happily the period should arrive
to enable his Majesty once more to exercise the
funs ions of Royalty ? Was not the Himse aware,
that up to the sth day of July (the period when the
accession, of disorder arose) his Majesty was in the
habit of communication with his fam;ly ? On more
than one occasion he (Mr. Perceval) had the hap-
piness of an interview with Ins Majesty, who was
competent to all the purposes of common intercourse,
and 'feelingly alive to the situation in which he was
unfortunately placed; and though the accession pre-
vented him from resuming the Royal funelions, yet
he was capable of enjoying common intercourse, as
far as the calamity under which he laboured would
permit.. Would the Committee, because his Ma--
jesty',s calamity was great, abstain from rendering to
him that comfort which,. when rendered, would
make it sit lighter ? He thought not, and therefore
trusted that they would agree to the Resolutions.
_ _

he wsion.the in-bjeet, lie vtronki cs
the Right Hon. Gentleman a question : did the
Right Hon. Gentleman consider the claims of his
Royal Highness to the arrears of the revenue arising
from the Duchy of Cornwall as given up ; or was
his Royal Highness at liberty to apply to the House'
for those arrears ; or would any proposi: ion be
made respe&ing them ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER- Could' not
have any thing to propose on the subject of these
claims. When they were before Parliament, the
tthderstanding was then, that under the arrange-
ment made with his Royal Highness, the claim
had been relinquished. It was a mistake, there•
fore, to suppose, that any such claim would be
raised.
Mr. TIERNEY wished for further time to ender-
stand the plan. There were two great points in
discussion, the one a question between the Prince,
and the other of the Constitution. He wished to
• be satisfied that .in giving his assent to the plan, he
was not for infringing the Constitution. As he un-
derstood that part of the plan which related to the
E,tablishinent of the King, it appeared to him no,
thing less than the creation of a new Court, which
was unnecessary, his Majesty being still the Sove-
reign of the country; and never was 'bete a Mo-
narch more beloved' than the unfertunaie • George
111. Was it necessary to have a separate Court ?
sure he was that it was dangerous. ' Mr. Tiereey
objeeled to the establishment oinew Officers which
the plan proposed; the, drift of it was, to create a
separate influence, and seemed almost like a bargin
not to continue the restrictions. Without- wishing
to . give any offence.whatever to-her -Majesty, lie '•
could not hely thinking, that the eret-tion of such a
Court was unnecessary, because her Majesty bad
already a, splendid Establishment at the expense to
the public of 58,0001. annually, which ',Establish-
ment might serve both. Was it necessary, tor-in-
stance, that his Majesty should have a Master of the
Horse, when he never stirred out of doors ; and did
not her Majesty's Establishment furnish a Master of
the Horse and Vice-Chamberlain of the Household?
He much doubted 4+ltei her so large an expense as
now asked ought to. be incurred.
_ _

said It was a case without hope;" another,. that
It was ;1l boc impossible he should recover."—

Mr. SHERIDAN rose, in obedience to a call from

many parts of the House. He observed, that it was
not his intention to trouble the House, but in con-
sequence of -something that had fallen from the
Right Hon. Gentleman, in-:answer to a question
which had been put by his
.Right Hon. Friend
(Mr.. Ponsonby) respecting the arrears of the
Dochy of Cornwall. The Right Hon. Gentleman
had said in his answer, that he had no intention of
making any allusion in his plan, to those arrears, as
a source-of income, or in the light,of claim on the
public, on the part.of his Royal Highness, In 1802,
when the claims were made by the present Lord
Manners, who then held the office of Solicitor-Ge-
' nerd to the-Prince, the general impression in the
House was, that the claims were well founded, and
the Prince had credit given him 'for not pressing
them in consequence of the arrangement entered
into. To shew that he had not
.given up his claims,
he would refer to a message which the Prince sent
down by Mr. Tyrwhit, and which was entered
on the Journals. Oat cf doors it was given out,
atid it had greatly surprised him, that the Prince
had, in that Message, renounced hid claims
for ever. When, therefore, the Right HonouP.
able Gentleman talked of his Royal Highness
having abandoned his claims, he must have gather-
ed his authority from the loose reports of the debates
at.that time, but principally from the. Annual Re-
But if the Right Hon. Gentleman had look-
e.l at the Journals, he would have fOt.ind the fati
was not so, and his Royal Highness could not have
given them up without an aft of gross injustice, not
only to his creditors, but also to his descendAats. Mr.
S. then referred to the Message, in which his Royal
Highness declares, that in consequence of the sr..'
rangernents made subsequent to the claims being
made, he cheerfully relinquishes the suit, and has
direaed his Law Officers accordingly. In thus re-
linquishing his claims for the present, Mr. S. ob-
served, that his Royal Highness relied on the
li-
berality of his Majesty and of Parliament at some
future period for the recognition of them. He
would put it to the House to say, whether his
Royal Highness had waved all atims to the arrears
from 176? to 1782, a period of twenty-one years,
by the latter words of the Message which had just
been read.

The CHAELLOR of the EXCHEQUgII denied that
the opinion which he had given had been formed
from the perusal of any speeches contained in any
of the publications alluded to. His opinion was
formed from the perusal of the Menage, to which
the Right Hon. Gentleman had just referred, and
which, he was almost inclined to think, he had seen
for the first time. He had never stated, that he was
authorised to• declare, that his Royal Highness had
no claims, but that he had renounced them, and he
would refer to the very terms of the Message, to
prove that it was so. Did not his Royal Highness
say, " that he renounced the suit ?" Was not that
suit renounced 'in consequence of the previous ar-
rangements) which made the prosecution of it no
longer necessary ? Was there any Gentleman in the
House who could conceive it possible, after the in-
strument just read was entered on the Journ.ds of
the Huase, that any person would advise'his Royal
Highness to raise any further claims by reviving the
suit ? With respect to what the Right Hon. Genile-•
'man (Mr. Tierney) had stated on the subject of the
propositions,, he had disclaimed any disposition to
give offence to her Majesty. When so doing he
had been very liberal of his insinuations to hint
(Mr. Perceval), by asserting that there was a-sort'of
comma with the Regent to remove the restriction~
by the' et cation of a new Court; that he should
have the temerity to make such-an overture was
not what every person would credit. It was highly
improbable that he should presume 'to suggest suer; •
a thing to his Sovereign and Master. It was so pre-
posterous a supposition that he could hardly con-
ceive there was a mind so constructed as to engen-
der the ideas. With resped to the other objec-
tions in the plan, these might be the subject of
consideration when the Bill was brought in, espe-
cially in the Committee, and he hoped the progress
of the plan would nut be tetarded by objedions to
the Resolutions.

Mr:PONSONBY had not the most distant idea of
depriving his Majesty of any thing necessary either
to his comfort or dignity but he wished to know
whether the Civil List revenue would not
.be sale in
'the
hands of the Prince of Wales ? Would not his
Royal Highness feel for the comfort of his Royal
Father ? and it Parliament were to place those reve-
nues at his disposal, would he not make such a dis-
position as should contribute not only to his Ma-
jesty's comfort, but also to his splendour and dig-

Mr. SHEIIIDA4 said, the goes ion between the
Right fion. Gentleman and him was a mere matter

GH WATER AT LON

Morning, z) min. after S.

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