The Sun.
London, England, 1823-06-10 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

The expected discussion of the Bill for repealing the exist-
ing laws which regulate the labour of the Spitaltields silk
weavers had attracted a large number of those individuals
to the House. Those who were not able to enter the gal-
lery, ranged themselves on each side of the avenues through
which the Members passed, perhaps with the intention of
showing that they felt considerable interest in the pending
measure.
Mr. S. 'WORTLEY presented a petition from the woollen-
manufacturers of Halifax, in the county of York, praying that
the Bill fur regulating the wages of workmen might not pass
into a law.

Mr. S. IVORTLEY newt presented petitions ll'om the mer-
chants of Leeds and Manchester, against the Linen Stamping
Repeal Bill.
, MARRIAtiE ACT.

On the motion of Dr. PifiLustonii, the 3farriag? Act
Amendment Bill was ordered to be read a iccond time on this
day six months,

SCOTCH AND IRISH DISTILLERY ACTS.

The House having resolved itself into a Committee on the
above Acts, the CHANCELLOR of the EXCH EQUE lt
said, he would at the present moment content himself with
moving certain resolutions, which would be the foundation of
a Bill to be hereafter introduced. When this Bill should be
brought in, he, would give any explanation which might be re-
quired. He concluded by moving some resolutions, which
were agreed to.
The House then resumed, and the Report was ordered to be
received to-morrow. _ _ • . _

Mr. llllMEpresented a petition from the Royal borough of
Montrose, praying for the. repeal of the Duty on Worts, Ale, and
Beer, and praying that it (the duty) might be imposed upon
Malt alone. _ -

fhe Becognizances Bill was read a third time and passed.
Mr. F. BUXTON presented a petition from certain master
silk manufacturers of London and Westminster, against the
Silk Manufacture Bill.
Lord A. HAMILTON presented a petition from the candle-
makers of Glasgow, praying for a repeal ofthe Duty on Candles.
SILK MANUFACTURE
Upon the motion of Mr. H usgissort, the Report of the
Committee on the above Bill was brought up.
According to order, Counsel (Messrs. Adams and Wilde) for
the petitioners against the Bill,. were then called its and heard
at the bar.
As soon as they had concluded,
Mr. HUSKISSON moved; that the Report of the Committee
ton the BIM_ be agreed to.
Mr.. F. BUXTON. said, be would not follow the Learned
Counsel who had just been heard, by going into the question

•
Mr.'HUSKISSON said, that in opposing the amendment,
he might admit the whole of the facts stated 13y the Hon. Gen-
tleman, and also by the Learned Counsel at the bar. It was.
saki that the bill would have the effect of increasing the poor.
rates, by throwing the weavers upon them for part of their sub-
sidence. Now, if the poor-rates had not been increased much
in Spitalfields,,it should be recollected that the weavers there,
in periods of distress, had received very considerable assistance
from the public purse, which was not the case in other parts of
the country ; but he was prepared to contend, that if the pre-
sent regutationawere continued, instead of rendering the weavers
partly dependent-on the poor-rates, they would make them
entirely so, by depriving their of all employment. 'lt could
not he denied that if there existed a competition in any part of
the. country, by which the work could be done for half the pries
paid in London, the effect would be to deprive the masters in
London of all business, and of course the workmen of employ.
ment.—(llear, hear !)—They would therefore be in a worse
situation than the weavers in the country ; for undoubtedly the
business Would be transferred to that part of the country where
it could be done cheapest. This had been already the case fn
several branches of the trade in which competition was raised
in other parts of the country. As soon as it was known that
such competition exilited, a dispute arose between the masters
and the journeymen; it was then referred to the Magistrates,
who would not Interfere, but suirered the book of rates to con-
tinue according to the regulations of the act; the consequence
generally was, the particular
branch of business in which the
competition arose, was lost to the metropolis, and transferred
to that place where it could be done cheaper; and so it would
ultimately be with the entire of the silk trade, if the present
regulations were allowed to remain.—( Dear !)—The Right
lion. Gentleman went on to Contend, that if regulations fixing
the rate of wages higher in the metropolis than in othetparts of
the country, were allowed to continue the result would be, the
introduction of evils to the workmen themselves, which no VlG°r
laws could remedy. If the rate were to be fixel in London,
why not extend it all over the country ? But for such a gene-
ral • extension, he was satisfied no person Would contend.—
Under these circumstances, he would object to going into
Committnee, when he admitted all the facts which would be
likely to be proved there, but which could not affect the prin.-
ciple of the bill.
lir. ELLICE would not go into inquiry into the principle of
the bill, but he thought 'there were some facts connected with
it, upon which the House,ought to have information before it
proceeded farther. lie Would admit it was an unwise ininci-
sie to regulate the price of labour , but Parliament had regu.
ated the price or bread, and Other articles ; and if one such re•
gulation was to be done away 'with, .104 ought all. lie was no
advocate for restrictions upon trade in general ; but he thought
that the House should make art inquiry into the circumstances
of them generally. If the 4411160 N Acts were to be repealed,
many others ought to be repealed also.• On all accounts, if it
Were only to obtain the peaceable assent of the artisans in the
Metropolis, who were by no means the unthinking uneducated
people the Right lion. Gentleman imagined them to be, he
implored the, Right lion. 0-cutlet/lan to reconsider his objec-
tions to the amendment, and to allow the whole matter to be
again brought under consideration in the ensuing Session.
Colonel WOOD wished that this measure might be post:
ported till the next Session. After declaring at some length his
reasons for entertaining such a wish, he said that he had stated
them to the House by the desire and et the request of the
weavers themselves. It had been his fortune to command for
a number of years a regiment of militia, which was supplied
with recruits from Spitaltields. Now, several of the men who
had served under him had come to him and had requested him
to say a few words in their behalf. lie had, therefore, great
pleasure in stating, that as far as his knowledge of them ex.
tended, a more honest, respectable, well conducted set of men
could not exist. _ .

1.4,.` P. MOORE complained of the manner in which It WAS
attempted to hurry this Bill through the House. Indeed, he
had not had time toned over the evidence which had formerly
been collected upon this subject, neither, be believed, had the
Right lion.- Gentleman. He trusted That the Right lion.
Gentleman would allow the 1401 to be fully deliberated in the
Committee next year, He vindicated the character of the pe.
titloners at some length, stating that in the last 34 years there
had been only, two quarrels between the weavers and their
masters, which had required adJudication before the Nagle.
trates. In one of them the weavers, in the other the masters,
were decided to be in the right. ' Ile likewise added, that for
the last 25 years, not one of them had ever applied to the parish
for relief except from circumstances of family affliction. •
Mr. T. WILSON wits of opinion that the repeal of the
Spitaltields' Acts would be beneficial to the weavers and arts.
mum generally. Still he thought that, under all the circum-
stances of the case, it would be advisable for his Right /lon.
Friend to allow the Bill to go to a Committee above stair.__
petitioners,
anctdabgiallt
(near, hear 4—The silk.trade was a growing trade; and lie
Ittft tilillepoint of for.
was convinced that It:would grow inure rapidly than it had ever
hitherto done, if it were 1e unshackled for the future. In
enwhnosciripmetistile he hats Iktaed itioretsheentedres,P'e
tune he could only wish that he himself was .on a par with
hem.

Mr. lIUME said, that if he could persuade himself that any
fresh information could be anbrded to the !louse upon this sub.
ject he would haVe no objection to go into the proposej utm_
lint what information could they expect to get by $lW]
a proceeding, which they were not already in prmsession
lie was convinced that it would only be a waste of tirne to take
the evidence oldie weevers themselves ; 1411410 to the evidence
of the waster manufacturers, the Haase bad it already, Anti

I could not fail to observe, that one and all of 'themcall r
the repeal of these impolitic Acts. With regard to the argus.
ment raised upen the statement that the WeaVers had neverap-
plied to the poor-rates fdr relief, he should merely obC..iveohat
the evidence attached to the Report of the Select Committee of
the House of Commons on the Poor Laws. distined/provtd.
that statement to have no foundation whatever in fay.- Ile
therefore contended that the argument, which had been derived
from the state of the'Poor Laws, was not so much in favour of
the continuance as of the repeal of; the restrictions. He agreed
With the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, that these Acts had
not promoted the manufacurres of Spitalfields.
Mr. BRIGHT was of opinion that 'inquiry was never more
called for. It ought to be recollected, that what was asked,
was merely inquiry; and ought the Hl to refuse it merely
because some persons talked largely about the principles of po-
litical economy ? The lion. Gentleman entered into male do-
tails to show the disturbances that has prevailed at Coventry,
and formerly in Spitalfields, before these Acts thr the protection
of the workmen were passed. Distress, confusiorssand discon-
tent would be the result if these Acts were repealed—She trade
of Coventry and Macclesfield would be removed to London,
and it would be easy for a few dissolute and idle men to breed
disorders even in the metropolis. Whether there were not some
regulations in these statute* requiring alteration he would not
decide; but if it *ere wanted, that was an additional motive
for investigating the whole subject.
Mr. 11IANSFIELD stated that he should vote for the Com-
mittee.
Mr. RICARDO was as anxious for inquiry as any Memo
ber, in cases where it was at all needed ; but admitting all
that the opponents of this Bill stated they could prove, it would
not change his opinion, if these acts were indeed so beneficial,
they ought to be adopted all over the country, anti applied to
every branch of manufacture ; but the question was, whether
labour should or should not be free. The quantity of work
must depend upon the extent of demand ; anti if the demand
were great, the number of persons employed would be in pro..
portion. If the Spitalfiehis Acts were repealed, no doubt the
number of weavers employed in London would be greater than
at present. They might not, indeed, receive such high wages,
but it was highly improper that those wages should he arti-
ficially kept up by the interference of a Magistrate. If' a mas
uufacturer were obliged to use a certain quantity of labour, he
ought to obtain it at a fair price. It had been said that the
weavers of Spitalfields received very little from the poor-rates.
True, and why ? Because there was so little to be distributed
among them : very little could be raised in the parish, and
sometimes, when great distress prevailed, resort had, been
actually had to Government for large sums for the relief of the
poor. The Hon. Member for Brecon had broached a most
mischievous principle in what he had said about half work.
Colonel IVOOD begged leave to restate what be had said—
viz. that the elpitaltield's Acts secured a fair price to the work-
men, and the masters gave the men only half work, in order to
give them only half pay.
'Mr. RICARDO maintained that it was both cruel and un-
just that a Magistrate should be allowed to interfere firr such a
purpose. The price of labour ought to take its Chance ; and if
any men were thrown out of employ, the effect would be that
the rust would get full work. The Hon: Member for Bristol
had talked about political economy, but political economy
were, of late, become terms used to ridicule and reproach ; they
Were always used as a substitute for an argument, anti this had
been precisely the case also with the lion. Member for Wey-
mouth. Ile (Mr. Ricardo) was for repealing all laws in part
materia by degrees. Those to preVent artisans from leaving
the country ought to be abolished, and those also, he was in-
clined to think, which respected combinations. It ivas an eX+
traordinary fact, that the wages of the weaves remained the
same as when bread was much higher than at present. With
regard to the number of weavers employed in London, he be-
lieved the statements to be greatly exaggerated.
Air. G. PHILIPS supported the Bill, anti opposed the in-
gutty.
Mr. BROUGHAM did not wish to give a silent vote, lest
it should be misinterpreted both within and without deers. He
agreed with those who approved most highly of the principle of
the Bill before the House, and he thotight that the repeal of the
Spitalfields A ets would be advantageous as well lei the work-
man as to his employer • but the question was, whether, after
having supported a bad 'system for half a century—after parties
had adapted their concerns anti dealings to that system--it ought.
to be abolished suddenly and without inquiry in point of policy
—he slid not say ofjustice—and for the sake of the sound prin-
elides supported by this Bill themselves, lie wished the new
scheme of political economy to be promulgated In a way as
little repulsive to the community as possible. In practical
legislation, a greater error could not be committed than to re-
trace steps and adopt measures which did not early along with
them hearty and unanimous concurrence. Even if the foetal()
be proved could not alter his opinion, if a large Class of petis
tioners were alarmed at this measure, if they had imbibed ills
thunded prejudices against it, it—tvaa not that the House
should reject the claim for mere inquiry. To refuse it, was to
do justice neither to the weavers, to the masters, to the public,
nor to the sound principles upon Which the' proposed repeal was
grounded. lie was not for a lon delay for this purpose—for
no delay that could defeat the Bill this session; but he under-
stood that a week or ten days only would be wanted for the in-
vestigation. If the petitioners did not go away convinced, they.
would be dismissed Much better satisfied than at present. If
the intliry endangered the Bill he should hesitate before he
granted it.
Mr. IV. SMITII concurred entirely with all that bad fallen
front the last speaker. 4
Mr. Alderman BRIDGES also supported inquiry.
Mr. MONCK, though friendly-to -the principle of the'Bill,
thought it ought not to pass unless accompanied by the repeal
of the Combination and Emigration Acts. At present, be
should vote against it.
Mr. BING supported the going into a Committee, which
course, lie apprehended; need not occasion a week's delay.
Mr. CHARLES GRANT thought that going into a Com-
Mittee would be tantamount to postponing the Bill race die.
Fora Committee—taking into its consideration the variety of
subjects said to be connected with the question—for a Corn.
mittee to cite this, and get through within the session, was im-
possible. The Hon. Member proceeded to quote the resolution
of the Lords' Committee, in order to show that. that Com-
mittee had recommended the repeal of the wasting Acts ; and
sat down by citing an advertisement from the Spitalfiehla Be-
nevolent Society, dated in the year 18111, showing that 24,900
Spitalfields weavers were tit that time out of employ. When
it was remembered that these 24,900 persons were operative
tradesmen, most of them with families to maintain, it would
be a little too much to contend, in favour of, the existing laws,:
that they had kept the Spitalfields weavers above the pressure
of distress.

Sir J. MACKINTOSH was content to vote for a Com.
mittee, provided that the Inquiries of that Committee did not
postpone the Bill beyond The present session. He of course
wished for no delay; and he wanted no information ; but he
would vote for the Committee with a view to conciliation, and
in the hope to overcome the prejudices of a considerable body
of persons who were unquestionably entitled to the attention of
the House. If a Committee were judiciously chosen, and in:
strueted to confine its inquiries within proper limits, there
would be ample time within the session to go through with the
lilll ; for himself, he would by no means consent, howevel,
to defer it until next year, as such a delay might give rise to
expectations which, with his consent, could never be fulfilled.
Mr. lIRIGHT explained.
The House then divided, when the numbers were
For the original motion . gu
Against it go
Majority - • . —8
The Report was then received, and the Bill ordered to be
read a third time on Wednesday next