The Sun.
London, England, 1823-03-19 00:00:00

WELSH JUDICATURE.

Mr. JONES rose to move for leave to bring in a Bill upon
the subject of the Administration of Justice in Wales. The
Hon. Member stated that the Bill was founded upon the Re-
ports of the Committees which bad sat upon the subject. In
explaining the alterations contemplated by the Bill, the Hon.
Member was generally inaudible owing to his speaking from
beneath the !gallery. He moved for leave to bring in a Bill to
increase and extend the power of Judges in Wales, and to
amend the laws relating to the same,
Mr. HUME said, he hoped the Hon. Gentleman would in-
troduce a clause to prevent Welsh Judges from holding seats
in that House.

Mr. JONES said it was not his intention to propose such a
clause ; but if any Member thought proper to do so, he should
have his suppoh.
Leave was then given to bring. in the Bill.
Lord A. HAMILTON gave notice,, that to.mortuw se n.
night he should move for leave to bring in a Bill to abolish the
inferior Commissary Courts in Scotland.
INSOLVENT DEBTORS' ACT.
Mr. P. MOORE rose to move the total Repeal of the In.
solvent Debtors' Act. He had promptly undertaken to do
this upon a former occasion, in order to give a definitive di.
rection to the views of the House and of the country upon this
important question. Some described the Act as ,net meriting
amendment, and others as not worth it; and he had therefore
' come forward to destroy it altogether. It had been said why not
send it to a Committee. But lie answered to this that the sub.
,sect had been before 200 Committees, without any of them know.
mg what to do with it. He did not mean Committees of that
House, but Committees of those who suffered under the Act,
and sent their Petitions to the Rouse, praying that something
might be done to relieve them. He moved that leave be given
to bring in a Bill for the repeal of the several Acts called the
Insolvent Debtors' Act. - .

Lord ALTHORPE did not think that th petitions which
had come before the House formed a sufficiedi justification for
repealing the Act altogether; and he could not, therefore, sup-
port the motion of his Hon. Friend.---(Hear, hear I)—He was
willing to admit, that many amendments to the Act were ne-
cessary and very desirable. lie was satisfied that this task
was to be undertaken by the Government, because if he,
or any other Honourable Member on that side of the House,
proposed a measure, it would not be likely to find so
much support. Those who desired to repeal the present Act
altogether would do well to look at the law as it stood before
'its enactment. Debtors were liable to confinement for life,
and the consequence was, that the prisons became so crowded
that every now and then a fresh Insolvent Act was necessary,
and, they were all discharged. Thus the honest man who had
been oppressively confined for a long time might be released,
but the dishonest and fraudulent debtor, who might have been
in prison only a few days, came out upon the sanie terms. He
had always thought that the imprisonment under the present
Act was far too short a time.--(Hear, hear!)—lt was not

regarded as it ought to be in the view of a punishment,
and it consequently had not the effect of deterring fraud.—
There was another amendment of which he thought the law
capable. The giving power to the creditor, under certain cir-
cumstances, to allow the discharge of the debtor. He threw
out these objects to those who might propose to amend the
Act ; but if his Hon. Friend pressed the present motion, he
should vote against it.
111 r. C. W't believed that, under the Insolvent Act as
it stood originally, there were many abuses and hardships,
and that the power given to the Insolvent by the pre-
sent _ law had considerably diminished them. The subject
. .

of the Insolvent Act had engaged the attention of the
ablest men in the kingdom, and many different opinions had
resulted from that attention. To those who opposed the Act,
he was willing to admit that for one cruel creditor there were
nine fraudulent debtors; but still, when the question of im-
prisonment came to be considered, he could not admit that the
creditor was the proper judge of the degree. Indeed all who
opposed the power in the creditor of imprisonment for the life
of the debtor must be friendly to the principle of the Act. He
was friendly to it himself, thought he would be glad to see
some modification of many of its provisions.
Mr. ABERCROAIIIY could not agree to. the motion of the
Honourable Member for Coventry. A recurrence to the old
' law would be highly injurious to the . creditor ; for, as had
happened before, the gaols would be filled until the were
crowded, and then a tempor ry Act would be passed for dis-
chargingthern, without regard to the conduct of the different
debtors. He understo9d that there was a sum of 10,000/. in the

1.--;.;64 the officers of the Insolvent Court ready for distribu-
tion among different creditors, not one of whom applied for any
dividend. He thought the House ought not to part with the
principle of the Bill. In Scotland the law was more lenient
than it was in England ; and yet the people- there were per-
fectly reconciled to it. There was, no doubt, in, Scotland, a
cautious disposition against the giving of extensive credit, and
he thought it would be better if that disposition found its way
to England. He could by no means agree to the Motion.
Mr. HOBHOUSk thought that, if the Hon. Mover really
wished for any alteration in the present law, he could not do
better than leave it to be proposed by the Solicitor-General,
from whom it was sure to receive tint favourable attention
from the House which was withheld from measures generally
proposed ftom his (Mr. liobliouse's) side. He should be glad
to wait fot the promised measure of that lion. and Learned
Gentleman, and trusted that, when he produced it, it would he
found to contain some provision for altering the constitution of
the Insolvent Court. He had just received friiin on of his
Constituents the hill of a Solicitor of that Court for conducting
the business of an unopposed Insolvent ; and the amount was
not less than 4:21., tcn guineas having been charged for drawing
the schedule. In this case, therefore, the Insolvent, who had
not been opposed by his Creditors, was liable, after having
given up all his property, to be arrested at the suit of his'At-
torney for getting his discharge.
Sir R. WILSON was happy to say that there was not one of
hii constituents who did not approve of the principle of the Bill.
He thought it required modification ; and trusted the task of al-
tering It would be left in the hands of the Law Officers of' the
Crown.

Mr. BRIGHT, though he was against entrusting a creditor
with the power of imprisonment for life, wished to see a mate-
rial alteration of the present law, which appeared to be easy of
evasion. He thought the writ of Habeas Corpus removing
debtors from the country to town should be taken away; that
the confinement of debtors seeking the benefit of the Insolvent
Act should be within the walls and not within the rules only of
their prison • that, in the case of persons being remanded by
the Court for fraudulent conduct, the allowance under the
Lord's Act should be taken, and that persons who lent them-
selves to the circulation of accommodation paper should be
punished as fraudulent debtors. He hoped the Solicitor-Gene-
ral would not overlook these suggestions when he prepared his
alterations; and, under all the circumstances, he recommended
his Hon. Friend to withdraw his motion. •

Mr. SYKES admitted the inconveniences resulting from the
present law, but he approved of the principle on which it had
been framed.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said he collected that the
feelings of the House was in favour. of the principle of the
Bill.—(Bear, hear, hear !)—lndeed, if the motion of the lion.
Member were acceded to, all the powers-vcsited- in the dif-
ferent persons acting under the Insolvent Act would be re-
scinded. Many persons would be liable to new arrests, many
sums of money now in the hands of ditferent persons for dis-
tribution would become impounded, and every inconsistency
and extravagance would follow. Most of the provisions of the
present Act were necessary to give effect to the principle of
the Bill ; so that as a necessary consequence, no one who ap-
proved of that principle could vote for the present motion. He
had examined all the petitions which had been presented to
the House on this subject; and he found that no one suggested
a practical remedy for the evils of which they all complained.
--Much had been said in favour of the Irish Law, , and he
had therefore examined the Irish Act, paragrkpli by paragraph
with this English Act, and he found that their provisions were
the same. He did not deny that evils existed under the pre.
sent law ; but, he believed they were much exaggerated. He
thought that whenever a debtor appeared to have dealt fairly,
gave up his property, and consented that his future property
should be liable for the payment of his debts, his person should
be discharged. This was the principle upon which he ap.
proved of the law.—(Hear, hear !)—He thought the provisions
of the present Act were good ; but lie believed that creditors
were generally inert, and declined bearing the expcnce of bring.
ing evidence before the Insolvent Court, to chew the fraudu-
lent conduct of their debtors. When they were thus inactive
they must take the consequence; and ought not to expect
persons to be confined. upon a mere surmise of fraud. The
debts discharged under this Act were stated to amount to 10
minions ; but this was a mistake. Every person legally edu-
cated was aware that a man who had given a of Fxchringe,
which had circulated among several persons, was compelled to
put each of them in his schedule lest he should not insert the
proper person to whom the money was due. This circumstance
rendered necessary the insertion of many debts several times
over, so that the nominal amount of the debts appeared to be
not unfrequently ten times more than their real amount. The
deficiency of assets was to be accounted for in the circumstance
that persons discharged under the insolvent Act were generally
persons in an inferior situation of life, without any capital ;
while in cases under the Bankrupt Laws the object of them
was generally a person in an extensive business, and with a
considerable capital. He could only assure the House that he
had no desire to withdraw front the pledge he had given to di-
rect his attention to the subject. —(lleat, hear !)-- He should
do so Most assiduously, and would, in due time, state to the
House the result of his labours ; and if he though he could do
so effectually, would suggest an. imprdvement of the present
law.—(Cheers.)
After a few words from Mr. J. SMITH, and from the Som..
CITOR.GENEItAL in explanation,
Mr. ELLICE said, he entirely concurred in the general
views of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, and was most
happy to find that the Law Officers of the Crown had pledged
themselves to take up the subject.
~ Mr. HUMH
E hoped,that when the on. and Learned Gen-
treman proposed any alteration of the present law, it would in-
clude a reduction of the present expense of carrying the law
into execution. He trusted also that the operation of -the Bill
would be extended to Crown Debtors. He was not only for
the principle of the present Act.; he was against imprisonment
for debt at all. lie could not, therefore, but desire to see the
benefit of thelaw allowed to Crown debtors, many of whom re-
mained in Custody 10, 15, or 20 years, and some of whom died
in custody.
Sir J. NEWPORT said, that the Irish Insolvent Law was
generally approved of. This, he believed, was mainly to be
attributed to the limited credit which was given by traders in
Ireland.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL, in explanation of a remark
of the lion. Member for Westminster, said that the Bill he had
referred to was not any Act of the Court. It was merely an
ordinary Attorney's BR
Mr. HOBHOUSE said it was the Bill of an Attorney of the
Court, for obtaining the discharge • of the prisoner under the
present Act.
The SOLICITOR-GENERALsaid that it might, like
other Bills of Attornies, be taxed in the usual manner.
Mr. C. WILSON spoke in favour of the principle of the Bill,
though he wished to see it modified.
Mr. P. MOORE said, his object had been merely to awaken
the attention of the House and the Government to this subject;
and no better mode suggested itself to him titan the present
motion by which he could: gain that object. Having gained it,
he should, in consequence of the pledge given by the Solicitor-
General, cheerfully withdraw the motion.
The motion was then withdrawn.
MARRIAGE ACT.
Dr. PHILLIMORE, referring to the New Marriage Act,
observed, that it contained a clause, directing that it should be
read by the officiating Clergyman in every Church at least four
times a year, under a penalty of 0/. It was admitted 'that this
provision had done no good ; on the contrary, it had done harm;
for in several instances, Clergymen had, from the malicious mo-
tives of some of their parishioners and others, been summoned
for this penalty of 51. for not reading the Act in the Church.
He therefore proposed to bring in a short Bill to repeal this
part of the Act, without mjudiee to the general measures for
amending it, which were now in their passage through both
Houses. The Hon. and Learned Member accordingly moved
for leave to bring in the Bill.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT thought no Act of Parliament
whatever ought to be read in Church. He thought it was a
most improper practice.—Mr. C. WILSON concurred in the
sentiments of the last speaker.
Dr. PIIILLIMORE also concurred, and remarked that he

bad himself refused to introduce the clause in question. The
Bill he now proposed to bring in might probably be extended
so as to meet the sentiments of the Right Hon. Baronet.
Leave was then given to brinpr in the Bill.
LORD LIEUTI.NANT OF IRELAND.
Mr. HUM E, adverting to the notice of motion which he had
given for dispensing with the office of Lord Lieutenant, Chief
Secretary, and other great officers of Ireland, stated that he
wished for certain information upon various points, in order to
support the case he intended to lay before the House. He
should therefore move for several returns. The first was a
Return of the Income and Expenditure of Ireland for the
year ending January 1823 ; his object being to shew that
England had to contribute between two and three millions to-
wards the expenditure. He next wished for an Account of the
Imports and Exports of Dublin, in order to shew that that part
had gained by the Union. The Returns, therefore, which he
required on this point, would be for a period of ten years be-
fore 1801, and ten years preceding 1823. The next was a Re-
turn of the Tonnage of vessels of Ireland outward and inward,
distinguishing those of Dublin. The next was a Return spew-
ing the Amount of Fees received by the Council Office and
Secretary's Office in Ireland for the last two years ; but if
there should be any difficulty, he would be satisfied with this
account for one year. And the last was a Return shelving the
Amount of Fees paid to the Attorney and Solicitor-General
and other King's Counsel of Ireland for the last five years by
the different Government Offices, distinguishing the sums paid
by each Office.—All the motions were agreed to.
MUTINY BILL—FRANCE AND SPAIN.
On the motion for the reading of the Order of the Day for
the third reading of the Mutiny Bill,
Sir F. BURDETT rose. Although it was not his intuition
at that late hour of the night to enter into a detailed line of ar-
gument on the principle of the measure which was then before
the House, he wished to make a few observations in order to ex-
press his desire that the atrocious system of flogging in the army
might be abolished. He had hoped that that system, which
was so disgraceful to the military regulations of Great Britain,
would have terminated ere this. There was no ground for rea-
soing on the propriety of such a regulation, degrading as it was
to the feelings of every man who valued freedom, insulting
Is4lll it wits to every spirited man, and even worse than
disgraceful—dishonourable as it certainly was to every soldier.
It might indeed be maintained on the principles which a Noble
Lord, the Secretary at War, had advanced the other night, that
his Majesty was justified in inflicting it, in the same manner as
the exercise of the Royal prerogative justified the dismissal of an
officer from his regiment without the charges which caused such
dismissal being specified. It might be contended that the in-
fliction of such a dishonourable punishment as flogging was as'
correct as the dismissal of an officer without an investigation of
his conduct before a court-martial ; the state of the regiment
might be said to demand both the one and the other ; and
though no reasons might be given for that necessity, except
what were stated when the subject was brought before that
House, he felt that the public and the army ought to know those
reasons. An Hon. Member had, on a former night, called the
attention of the House to the one; he hoped that that Hon.
Member would persevere in the line of conduct which he had
marked out for himself, and that the dismissal of an officer with-
out an investigation before a court-martial, would be either
proved justifiable, or relinquished for ever; for himself, he would
without entering more at large into the subject, state his deter-
mination on the first open day to bring the other matter fully
before the House for its consideration, and he hoped to be then
able to adduce such reasons as would prove to every unprejudiced
mind, that that odious, unmanly, detestable punishment ought
to be abolished.--(Hear!)—As he was upon his legs, he was
desirous of using that opportunity to make a few observations
on another important matter—the foreign policy of Great Bri-
tain. A Right Hon. Gentleman, who was then absent from the
House front the results of a recent indisposition, had, in answer
:0 a question from that side of the House, given an answer re-
Lative to the line of conduct which had been and was to be con-

tinued in with regard to Spain. At the circumstances on which
that answer was founded, he could not but express his extreme
surprise, nay more, his sorrow ; he would use the strongest
epithet which the English language supplied him the use of to
express his feelings, at circumstances which the Government of
Great Britain had allowed to become such as to lead this king-
dom into a line of conduct unworthy of this country.—(Hear,
hear !)--:lluch had been said respecting a standing
_army in
England, and many arguments had been adduced to prove the
utility of supporting it—they all centered in one opinion, thata
standing army was necessary to support the balance of power in
Europe. For that purpose watt the people of England called
upon during peace to dedicate a great portion of their annual
earnings to maintain an army. 'et now the principles of that
support seemed forgotten—they were neglected or relinquish-
ed—and that balance of power, which had cost England
so many hundred millions, was now to be destroyed.—
(Cri,:s of Hear, hear!)—and England was to look patiently
at the contest. Great Britain was to be neutral. Her policy
forsooth required that the treasures of centuries—the toils of her
Statesmen—the efforts of her people—the blood of her bravest
soldiers, should be scattered over the world in vain—(Hear,
hear o—all was now to succumb to the will of France. Eng-
land was to sit by calmly and patiently—she was to see Spain,
which had cost her such a mass of treasure, such a deluge of
blood, assailed, overrun, and subjected to France.—(Hear,
hear I)—Perhaps it might be said that the absence of the Right
Hon. Gentleman ought to induce him to abstain from those ob-
servations ; he was not desirous of going at length into the
topic; but he felt that as an Englishman he could not but em-
brace the opportunity which was then afforded to him of enter..
ing his protest against the line of conduct adopted by the Go-
vernment against the dereliction of duty of which the Govern.
meet had been guilty, when they had thus, forgetting all the
ancient rules of British policy, allowed the most flagrant as-
sault on the liberties of an old and generous ally.—( Hear,
hear!)--If the Right Honourable Gentleman, the Secretary
for Foreign Affairs, had been present, he should have entered
more fully into the subject; but, notwithstanding the absence
of the Right Hon. Gentleman, his feelings led him to express
his astonishment at the promises which had been holden forth
at the beginning of the Session, and the results of those pro-
mises at present. It was impossible that his Majesty's 11ini-
sters could reconcile those promises with the results of their
conduct. This 'nation bad contracted an enormous debt ;
efforts were daily making to alleviate the pressure of that debt;
but though that pressure was great, ye he felt that the people
of England would all unite with him in any sacrifice in order
to maintain the honour of the nation inviolable and annul_
lied.—(Hear, hear, hear o—England0—England might be oppressed by
taxes, but England was not so reduced as to feel that her
honour was to be hted, insulted, or violated by the fa-
roily of Bourbons.-(Hear, hear, hear !)—England would not
tolerate that her ts, her privileges, her allies, her own
freedom, her individual security, should be trampled upon
by any Bourbon. Yet was it not about to be destroyed by the
connivance of the Government ? Was not the present line of
policy contrary to the long recognized policy of Great Britain ?
Did not the best interests, not only at present but during every
reign within the last three centuries, require that liberty should
be extended through Europe ?—(Hear !)---Was England now
to succumb to the will of two of three aggrandized coalesced
despots ?—(Hear, hear o—At this time it might be said that
England was not prepared—but the Bourbons of the South, as
well as the Despots of the North;pught to know that England
was willing, was able to assist her friends.--(Hear !)---If he
did not think that England was capable of the greatest exertions
for such a purpose, he should have hesitated to speak his se,ati.
ments ; but England required that that House should express
her sentiments. As Mr. Burke had said of France at the com-
mencement of the French Revolution that it was then blotted
out of the map of Europe, England was now blotted out of the
map of the world, if her old policy, her best interests, the freedom
of mankind and her own National honour, were thus forgotten,
abandoned, and destroyed.--( Hear !)—He remembered to have
heard one of the greatest men who had ever sat in that House, a
wise and enlightened Statesman, who had always supported
peace as a real blessing.to the country, say that the national ho-
nour ought not to be allowed to be attacked with impunity. Mr.
Fox had declared that there was one case in which war was jus-
tifiable, when the honour of the nation was at stake.—( Hear !)
that .no sacrifice could be too great to prevent any taint upon its
honour. Was England then to sit still until France had subju-
gated Spain ? Would England not stand forward to support a
brave and gallant nation, combatiug for freedom ? England re-
spected her treaties, she would defend them.—would France
respect them when she came to the (=fines of Portugal ?
Would France, which assailed Spain for no other reason but
because Spain had obtained a free Constitution, suffer that same
Constitution to be triumphant at Lisbon, which the French
soldiers might have insulted at Madrid?—(Bear, hear !)—The
Note of the Right Hon. Secretary of State, as he understood it,
seemed to indicate the intention of Government to repel all
armed attacks upon the independence of Portugal; but if the
independence of Spain was overthrown, who would secure that
of Portugal ? If Portugal, the ancient ally of Great Britain, was
in danger, why ought not Great Britain to stand forward to de-
fend it ? Was it not ridiculous to say that Great Britain would
wait till the conflict should be over with a nation which had be-
fore fought a ell by the Side of Great Britain—which had proved
itself worthy of possessing liberty in its truest sense?—(Hear !)
.—He would not trust himself with entering more at length
into the subject. Ile had promised merely to enter his protest
against the dangerous, the impolitic line of conduct called strict
neutrality, which was now imposed on England--a line of con.
duct deprecated by every Englishman—by every freeman. He
would always protest against such doctrines. Why had his Ma-
jesty's Ministers deluded the House of Commons by specious
promises at the beginning of the Session ? Why not openly have
declared the real state of the case ? Why allow the House to
effect reductions in matters which might be useful from their
continuance to the interests of the country ? Why had his Ma-
; jetty's Ministers suffered the House to remain idle so long with.

out a full and fair statement of the case ? The conduct °this
Majesty's Ministers seemed not therefore to be fair in did al' 1
lowing the House and the country to be deluded. Did tbeY l
think that either the House or the country would support tbe,n; i
in a line of conduct unworthy of England ? The subjectiwtre
yet come before the House for a full discussion ; h,e w°Td.ren
state his sentiments at greater length ; but he woula not tat own
without entering his protest against all that line d conduct
which tended to bring contempt on the nation and to destroy
the best interests of the country.—(Cheers.)
Mr. PEEL rose rather to deprecate discussion at the then
moment than to reply to any thing which had fallen from dle
Hon. Bart. whO had last sat down. The admission of the Hon.
Bart. himself justified the course which he (air. 1.)
W. Put'
suing, because if it was not proper without due notice
,till
lessbring on a motion for the abolition of military flogging, sou
less was •
ject to which the latter portion of the Hon. Baronet's speeehna"„
applied. Right lion. Friend (ildr.Canning), who was sPsen,'
it prudent, without regular notice, to discuss that soli;
only from intlispmition, had stated, that shortly after the Loaf
hweithdiffalermedosetnutirnei:
recess/ he should be prepared, if matters remained in their Prem
sent position, to lay a full statement before the House. He ccidre
have wished that the Honourable Baronet had waited, be °A
he made his charge, to hear what case the Government cot?' ,
make out. For his own part, he was free to confesso,l;
upon the subject; and he believed that the country would.har,
I onotent
with the maintenance of the honour and interests of f;egilc,
`ersfr:insathti esfalict:enn°,urathbalet
whir ~..
Ten was nothing at present in her foreign relations '
duced Government to think that her tranquiiihY would be to
turbed..—(Cheers.) table
Mr. HOEHOCSE vindicated the conduct of hi: Iloilo ~,,
Coie, who, in merely lifting up his voice to &cloy Fa.".. ;
lnieo could not acquiesce in the conduct of Ministers, ha ieta;
thing contrary to Parliamentary usage. lie centtli on e
if this country allowed its ancient ally Spain to 136;01
province of France, it would, as his Ilon. College pt,
said, be blotted out of the map of nations. He woutu...Wheil
more.at, present, than it did not appear that this coyntther
nattered strictly to neutrality ; but, on the control', ]tad he tad L
leaned f 0 to the side against liberty. He alluded tL) winuthat
our ,
,Bpaerroinceett
Jirri :ri11:4)4
the foundation of tmcentradicted rumour to so';,ee' corteito
Ministers at Madrid had endeavoured to persuade '''' if they
modify_ that Constitution to which they had ssegn't and 00.
had come in as friends to give the advice to that ,teat de'
rious nation to dishonour itself, this Country was ... nto the
rded. The Hon. Member then turned his atte.nno . nc
lutiny.Bill, which was the question before the ly,roel,t
could not admit the argument put forth 11 tbil si':', scond,
War the other night, upon the old Acts of Charles'. his Of
that the King possessed the prerogative of disiiiissual.,. oc
firers; for in that very time there was no standing Anil holy'
Noble Lord objected to this'd.. 1)ew" so.
arguments on own, by 1 i
tered up, to use a favourite expression of iit, woo ~
tl * *
tonnes such as Montesquieu and Blackstone. .1
.ti ouja
therefore, offer him one which, on such a sable` book-
scarcely fail of being conclusive with the Selme., she,
This was no less than the opinion of the tin , ~.
' tit"
on the occasion of' the disivissal of Lord Cow 81,, gridsoil t,!l
!bought the Crown ought not to exercise such A P°";;:te, Illir
it did not legally possess it. A dead King, lt /111', Ivo; bill
not carry as much weight as a living Sec et si„rogOe'
be thought this was tolerable authority against the ore
oj4
He should speak more at length on this subject en '
of his Hon. Colleague's motion. 1 dien°'
Mr. COUILTENAY professed to hold an oci") inget OB
trotal . .!.0
Bally opposed to that of the lion. Member for , voiou"
the ' the
this subject. He considered that what front h„ liras
~
downwards had been the practice of the 3100f.e"Breetxte:
law of the land. There might have been so, 'ciie 01141105
opinion on the subject during that period, hi.icto,:....
00 „bio
the Honourable Member to point out allow0(
that 0)cl)
it had been essentially doubted by the H tili`not to 1101.4,
possessed this prerogative. He tr ust be pern,li_tteilot, 110 ,;
much weight to the authority of George Writhough Drl,';';
ward by the Honourable Gentleman, who, a' ct frela,tcc',
here by principles dear to this country, was _Yr „,,c4).)..,,f
who could scarcely know any thing whatever
,0.,,,„ col! e.. 01,
ticin of this country ; as an individual, his oP:Stiogetheetlias
little weight. But, setting aside authorles, it were t,tiyo!
posing the question were now asked, whe h argot"-
not advisable too endue the Crown with auc,v- rota, oil ,
He contended that it must be answered inctu_.„tleal Pot, !
(Hear, hear, hear !)—An army without tb ntri.--iii,',,on
a power would be most dangerous to the 71"tonehe 'jiffy,
bear !)—Chi the other subject which be.' been soreolot ot
in the course of this discussion, he would 11" now t° .001
further than to declare his opinion in 011'°ti j„k the b`o
further
Hon. Baronet oppcmite, that he did oot
_low, ltofern•
sentiment of the nation was in favour of Warr.ut if thou 0 ill°
National honour was a great considenition; 000 pes,ool
meta could preserve the national honor, ski of tile,,`„,. hee
tame time they would be entitled to the tiactoin rti lair
for not taking a course which would be lie fili c° booe
tilewatlaP"P'itY.—illear, hear, hear !)--ea in th.ece were
of th of Prosperity were now improolli,a if peace to.qe.
e country, and would be :teen to "ea wall liti he giehtcl,'
Preserved. liThether it could be Prime ent 't te• e
nation could only be known when the to lloe'ti.te con;
Honourable Secretary had been known to ong to ice so
mere fact that peace was to be kept proved n° 3 tiiiit Pc
act
trary. He believed it proved the TCVerSel and Se OSr
li° al
honour '
Inwht go tobcether.--(Hear, Bear') ,__ !tight ,
.„, b
Sir ROBERT WILSON though thatl7,,t sat ef oaslf
eretary, and the Hon. Gentleman all° Pr., a-)le yr:re!,
thrown down the gauntlet on this, aulp,,P•ii,e pel„, a r
persuaded, for one, that the majorty 0' was 1., w 501 ''''
favour of war inithe cause of Spain. .it t the 0141105*,,,g1
tyrants and bigots of the human race agan" tot thts tots"
demdence of free nations. The pet'!'l 8/3eViv would Wiltjs!r,
against the liberty of ,this country, and
such a rause' into
House to see who were the abettors of s— what it Irs' t olts.
was a war against Spain to force her to do
~ herenlot of 1
she ever could do without for ever esclialtald
th 104104
pathy of the world, viz. to force her to Yt'4ho coulilroot 60;
nour. An abject Briton indeed he roust be. who rioupa 0 t
see what was going on by, France aiminst Slain I „or,
ashamed of the inactivity- of' his t:r.111 eeuntrlit.,: ni r"°;;,0,,,,,
Let been answered onthe subject of the Fr°p!,astitli '; eve
Bill ; but he hoped the generous people '`,,,Ailin 0:0011:
that Bill were repealed or not, viol& tot r.„owett",,ithe,
,„n'lii
their best assistance by every means in chorea doe opt P.
nish cause. lie hoped it would he remeniher_,,, hs,i .
this Bill was then in force, the standard of liber,l4u 'Jtortl. ,r,,
planted in South America by British hands."-el toyV 1)1(51
Mr.` THOMAS IVILSON did- not e%II ve eilolhefo
willingly as the Honourable Baronet hadto ottra be din
as he advocated an opinion in opPeakientf it 01 noliltel•
put forward by him. Ile though that • t •., to .01 r,,
with honour, it would be better for that • 40/
.0.,
peace. He did not hesitate to say, that in eo'froec!,,,e,
mon France was adopting a shameful course„onee "Iv Ott!
wards Spain. But it did not follow, because ;01.1.),,,thry 170
of folly, we should do the same.—(lear' f pesee ,ritict4,o
chants of the city of London were desiroosf nay ss'otf)
gearlyealffered, and although ready to olarlio this c
national- rod, they earnestly sought to inaint coed
a state o ~,, to, self „rot 0
peace. the
~;oit r
Sir F. It
LAKE thought this country oe, the ~ , er,so
Spaniards, because if the semi-barbarians o' ijit on't vole
Spain, England would eventually fall si„l,l ly,,b`t for ".s
wreck of nations. He was a friend to ee°-1:00,0, ~ $l,,
let them not discharge single bl bodiet.., ],tat''~(0.
a ac- ridt i , ill
were all wanted for the liberties of the w°r- ol° lent et t!)
to have heard that our Navy was in an exetrciga ty.....,(iferijl
ciency, for that was our bulwark agaitn't '''aiti se. . 0 0110
and be said—" Long and for ever, may it re„,.eleitei OP
Colonel DAN'lES'thought that after tllerregnteP'torl ,40
which bad been madethe C WI ger' ' " t° tbe - •
to .-P1e11,,,,g, odor tell cro,
country on a late occasion, it was ..,,'.. tto
s, 01 est,
backs thus upon them. If it were only 010010,0, ?...41103
nigh Representatives that we wished thou sooting
of liseoi
tsion was there to call together Si) solemn $ i .aillg Was '''',ne'e
hear, bear ! and a laugh.)—Whether tile ri` with v/- 0 - c•
~ spirit, 0
or not in its form, in its nature, an" ot hey' sso
therefore he contended it was inconsiste
0,,501 t
...410
of
purpose of telling the S aniards that v.'o 'fierooo 70.01.3
one si., ate i „v•-,
ctn. lie considered thatPthere wash u- p... lac, i;
attended that meeti --1 a to sOP_A th, 0 .
in
but was vie g ,feo.- tiotl,o 4'
S '
Pain by his voice in that llouse. Ileh'7ifo o the %t,l4l,:inido,
voted for the Estimates, as they eatee.,",f,,- of Miti;',l brieerr;
the sole view of strengthening the Jaw-- oort - etion-,ht•
what was, as he thought, their wish, to suPltight ' portent
When he first heard of the sickness of the.„„use he, c 10,,tir
tary (Mr. Canning) he was sory for it, he„`mntry io t'ln, de!, to
retarded and damped the ardour of the r"sight l'w tioe7tle
e up
the Spanish nation ; but when he ow wedowa tl„ oas,,
man quit that bed of sickness tot pie, he yes" A 010,
blast for ever the hopes of a gallant peoP' Fr''''' toj
had been confined to his bed still longer' his fion* bolt b,f,,ii;
Mr. RICARDO wished to explain his to tir lint to
had just sat down that he attended theowao, th,ecti lase tta
alluded, from a feeling of syropathl the(' pit-4b wise 111 lie.'
but he did not therefore admit that e. _.,,„thi l'ffease 4°0300
vote for war.—(Hear !)—lie thought !. r, ti,c J 1 Asj
of
A hut fair '1 theY "
country to keep out of war, an. - , lictore la .
the Right Hon. Secretary's statement '' ,in reed flw,
the case. sentinlen` friellorP
Mr. DENISON professed the sane his ll°"'yerY c,,, the
his attendance at the dinner alluded to,
ought to be, fatesv
had just sat down. Ile thought
how we rushed into a war, of which we we
ood tot
of or
4'4 OP
• oof r-Pir' 0a
consequences. di con, etarY alls to
Sir J. NEWPORT lamented - coon, Seer oiags .he gpi
had not been left where the Right of the Seer
w
fling) had left it in the former par!
..itbout lice
impossible to pronounce a judgine' w

ment he had
.promised to the House. Looking at the calami-
ties war had inflicted on this nation, he thought we ought well
to weigh the question before we plunged into another; al-
though he would rather we incurred the same burdens, and the
same calamities over again, than see the honour of the country
comproniised.
Mr. JONES remarked on the material alteration visible in
the opinion of the lion. Baronet opposite (Sir F. Burdett), who
in a late war upon the same principles which he now contended
justified another, did nothing but deprecate its ever having been
commenced.

After a few observations from Mr. WILLIAMS and Mr.
HuME,
Lord PALMERSTON called the attention of the House to
a new clause which he proposed to add to the Mutiny Bill, to
render the East India Company's Officers amenable to the pro.
visions of that Bill.

This clause was added to the Bill, which was then read a
third time and passed.
ORDNANCE ESTIMATES.

On the Report of the Supply Committee being brought up,
Mr. HUM E took occasion to protest against the large scale
upon which the Ordnance Estimates had been framed. He
considered that the whole of the Army was upon too large a
scale, if things remained as regarded our foreign affairs in their
present state. But as that was doubtful, he would say no more
at
_present.
The whole of the Resolutions were then read, and agreed to.
The Irish Grand Jury Presentment Bill, and the Marriage
Act Repeal Bill, went through Committees. Report to-
morrow. _ _

The Irish Tithe Bill was read a first time, and ordered for
second reading on the 21st April.
FIRST FRUITS.

Sir J. NEWPORT gave notice of a motion on this subject
for Thursday the 10th April.
Mr. HUME gave notice of a motion for Thursday next,
for a return of the number of persons prosecuted for blas-
phemous libels.
The Marine Mutiny Bill was read a third time,and passed.
The other Orders of the Day were disposed of, and the House
adjourned at Half-past Eleven o'Clock.

_ -
WAR WITH SPAIN.

[from the Col!stitutionneld
PETITION AGAINST THE WAR.

The Members of the Tribunal of Commerce
of St. Malo have addressed the following Petition
to the Chamber of Deputies :

" After having long been subject to the chances and the hor-
rors of war, France is still menaced with that desolating scourge.
Burdened with the weight of the sacrifices imposed on her by
the hatred of foreigners, she is now called upon to resign herself
to new ones. What is the terrible necessity that demands these
sacrifices ? We know that it belongs to the King alone to de-
cide this point ; but as it is possible that mistaken or improvi-
dent counsellors may lead the Monarch into unjust and danger-
ous wars, the representatives of the people have the power of
opposing them by withholding the subsidies, without which
they cannot undertake those wars.

" you know the motives of the war with which we are now
threatened. Are they sufficiently important to induce you to
consent to the lavishing away of the blood and treasure of
France ? Can they prevail on you to face the misfortunes which
war must entail ? The report of war has spread alarm among
the trading, manufacturing, and agricultural classes; all per-
ceive that this measure must bring about their ruin. The
citizens, who are not included in the abovementioned classes,
experience other alarms and other terrors. Every French heart
shrinks in dismay from the dangers which threaten society
at large, and which must compromise the dearest and most
sacred interests. _ _ -

" If these fears be well fi)unded, if your wisdom cannot ob-
viate the misfortunes which the great majority of the nation an-
ticipates from war, we hope, Gentlemen, that you will exert
every effort to enlighten the King's Government, and to alter
a determination the consequences of which may be very fatal.
For our own part, Gentlemen, availing ourselves of a constitu-
tional right, we are called to point out to you the disasters
which war would occasion in a town especially devoted to ma-
ritime speculation ; and we conceive we are fulfilling a duty
in expressing to you the wishes and fears of the trading class.
" We are, &c.