The Sun.
London, England, 1849-09-08 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING. SEPTEMBER 8, 1849.

Mr. TINSDALE—I ask Sir J. Simpson to explain how
.t is the expenses of working the line are now 46 per
cent., while in the report before them they were set
down at 23 per cent.?—(Hisses, and cries of " Answer
that.")
Sir J. SIMPSON said ho was anxious to give every
explanation in his power. (" Oh, oh." " A nice fellow
you are," &c,) He could not exactly state how it was.—
(A voice, " But you ought, sir.") Possibly; but, then,
under the unfortunate circumstances of the board, though
he might take some blame to himself for saying so, the
shareholders should recollect how matters had been car-
ried on. (Hisses.) He was only one of the directors.—
(Hisses. " A pretty set you were!" " Vagabonds," &c.)
The chairman already held his resignation.—(" That's
right.") Up to the last meeting the assets were kept by
Mr. Hudson and two directors.(" More shame for you
to allow it." Cheers.)
A PROPRIETOR TOSS to order. Sir J. Simpson should
be heard. It was most unfair to interrupt him.
Sir J. SIMPSON—I trust to-English justice and to the
good feeling of my fellow-citizens.—(oh, oh.) My
errors have been of omission, not of commission. Your
accounts were entirely in the hands of your late chair-
man.—(llisses.) I put it to you, if you had not every
confidence in Mr. Hudson.—(" Yes, yes ;" " No; we had
not.") I shared in that confidence. Everything he pro-
posed met your approbation; and if any one stood up to
oppose him you know he would not have been heard for
a moment.—(Rear, hear; No, no.) After 1845 I ceased
to be your auditor, and from that time Mr. Hudson had
the whole of your accounts.—(Cries of "Shame," and
confusion.) lam quite willing to resign.
Dr. O'BRIEN—Are you willing, Sir John, to resign
the money you got on the shares allotted to you ?
Mr. TINSDALE asked Sir J. Simpson why he had not
answered letters addressed to him on the business of the
company?
Sir. J. SIMPSON—If I ever received any letters from
you on such a subject I handed them to the board, and I
appeal to the secretary whether he has aot received them
from me.
Mr. TINSDALE—I wish to know if the solicitor of the
company is to be continued. It is said he is a great
trafficer in shares.
Mr. RICHARDSON (with warmth)—l must say one
word. The gentleman says it is asserted we have been
trafficers in shares. I tell that gentleman it is utterly
untrue. I have been a large proprietor, but I never
speculated in shares at all; and I deny the statement on
the part of my colleagues also. In February last I held
29,0001. stock, and my opinion remained unshaken in Mr.
Hudson up to that time.
Mr. WILSON—What did you do with your stock after
February?
hear.)
n
Mr. RICHARDSON—I wish to answer
_ev(euryear
fairly. I yet hold 10,0001. of your stoek •
Nor did I part with a share till three
I shall get fair
that weeks ago. I be-
lieve your line is a good one, and
.a holder in other lines
also, interestandfhoravmeycamliosnteoyp; bayu, t I
and
damt is
not convenient for a
man like me to hold atextent.—(Hear.)
A Pnorazwron—
Thoaett to neuss
t
stocks and our shares fall. the way; w
Mr. WILSON said, Mr. Richardson's statement was
perfectly satisfactory.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. Guava observed, he had only sold stock to enable
him to pay calls in another line.
Dr. O'BRIEN—I wish to know again, is Sir J. Simp-
son willing to resign his unlawfully gotten funds?—
(Cheers.) It is a robbery when a man takes what he
has no title to
Sir J. SIMPSON—WiII the Hon. Proprietor favour me
with his name?
Dr. O'BRIEN did so.
Sir J. SIMPsoN—I will answer you at a proper time.
Dr. O'BRIEN—This is the proper time, Sir. I demand
an explanation of all the money you have got.—(Cheers.)
Sir I. SIMPSON—I understand the duty of an Eng-
lishman and an honest man, and I throw back with
,:corn and contempt the hard words Dr. O'Brien has used.
—(" Oh, oh," and cheers.) I am known to my fellow-
citizens.
Dr. O'BRIEN—I know nothing of you, Sir, but as a
railway director.
Sir J. SIMPSON—I never was a trafficer in shares.
Never bought or sold one till within the last four months,
and I hold the same number of shares I did in January
last.—(Hear, hear.) I will state the whole of my con-
duct before I leave the room.
Dr. O'BRIEN said he only wanted to know would Sir
J. Simpson return the money?—(Hear, hear.) It was
arranged that Sir J. Simpson's resignation should not be
received till he had given the explanation at the next
meeting.
A PROPRIETOR—Were you aware, at the last meet-
ing, any fraud was going on?
The SECRETARY said he was aware there were sums
which should have been in the account that the directors
suppressed.
Dr. O'BRIEN complained that the secretary had not
answered certain written questions respecting the value
of shares, which had been addressed to him.
The Secretary (Mr. GRAY) replied that he could not
answer any question of such a kind regarding the sale of
Hull and Selby shares without the permission of the
hoard, and the reply which had been sent was, that if Dr.
O'Brien came over he could see the whole account.
PROPRIETOR—Are not the directors answerable for
the loss of our property? I ask the solicitor.
Mr. RicsAnDsorr—Such an opinion would be of little
worth, given in such a way.
The SECRETARY again rose, at the request of the
Chairman, to state the way in which the accounts had
been passed by the board. The accounts were drawn
up on a rough balance-sheet and submitted to Mr.
Hudson. There was no formal passing of them by the
board at Norwich.
Mr. BRowNE—Who made that rough sbeet?—My
own clerks. Were the accounts so made correct?—Yes,
so far as they could be they certainly were.
Dr. O'BRIEN—Were they made out on an honest
principle?—(Hear, hear.) It never was the practice of
the company to include the unpaid accounts of the half-
year, and so far I think they were wrong, but the accounts
made out by my clerks were made out honestly.
Mr. BROME inquired whether Sir Johu Simpson ever
passed any account which he knew to be incorrect?
Sir J. SniesoN —Certainly not. Up to 1845 every
account passed by myself and my colleague, Mr. Dods-
worth, was correct. I was thought too slow in getting
through my duties as auditor, and in 1845 ceased to
become so.
Then the frauds took place after 1845?—1f frauds there
were—(" Oh, oh," and laughter)—they have taken
place since.
Mr. MILLROY inquired whether there were any other
sources of expense Hot yet provided for?
The CHAIRMAN replied, that with the exception of
some very small items from the Nottingley branch there
was no further expense.
What is our real capital—about 5,200,G001. ?—We
have not gone into that fully, but expect to do so. The
committee of investigation will also be prepared to
answer it.
Do you believe the company have power to raise ad-
ditional money on debenture? Do we stand well in the
money market?—The company have full power to bor-
row money and sell stores to the fullest extent to com-
plete all they have in view.—(Hear, hear.)
Do you look for an ultimate reserved fund ?—Cer-
tainly we do ; but our rolling stock is better now than it
was six rnenths ago.
Mr. MILLROY said he was quite satisfied with the ex-
planation. The charge for the maintenance of perma-
lent
way
lines. was
extremelyH wished t i
knowi n
it there comparison
ws a flaw
with
hthat
other'
in
the lease of the Hull and Selby Railway ?
The CHAIRMAN said the subject had given rise to
considerable discussion and several letters, in which
different opinions had been expressed. A very-well
drawn-up case had been laid before counsel, and he
had hop d to have had a legal opinion as to the liability
of the Lancashire and Yorkshire Company to take one.
half of the Hull and Selby share with their own line.
The Lancashire and Yorkshire Company denied that
liability, on the authority of a deed entered into by two
directors of the Midland Company (Mr. Hudson and
another), and by two of their own directors, and would
resist it by every means in their power. He considered
that deed illegal, as the Act required three directors,
and the solicitors were of the same opinion.

Mr. GIITCH observed that there was no positive lease,
but merely an agreement for a lease, which was quite
binding on them. The question was whether the Lan-
cashire and Yorkshire were to take the half of it, and
on that point he refused to state any positive opinion at
present. _

In reply to a proprietor,
The Cu.s/RISIL&N stated that the sum of 95,000 L in the
suspense account had not yet been fully investigated.
Dr. O'BRIEN wished to give the secretary an oppor.
tunity of clearing himself of a suspicion which might
otherwise attach to him. Had he not seen alterations in
the accounts when they were returned to him from the
chairman; and if so, why had he not brought these alter-
ations before the board or the proprietors?
The SECRETARY—It is perfectly true the accounts
were altered with my knowledge and in my presence,
and reasons stated by Mr. Hudson and the parties—no,
I shall say in fact, by Mr. Hudson—why he made the
alterations. Those reasons certainly were not always con-
clusive to my mind, but it is impossible for a public
servant in my position to demand that every statement
made by those who are superior to him should coincide
with his views. I could not insist on Mr. Hudson taking
my advice on a matter of opinion. He stated, for instance,
that accounts paid that half-year should not appear in
the half-yearly statement. I thought that wrong, but
could not resist it.

Dr. o'.l3}trgm—l wish to ask if you did not know there
were matters not of opinion but of dishonesty in fact,
which you did not communicate to the board?
The SECRETABY—i knew of those omissions, for
which reasons were given. All these facts are matters

•
of opinion.
Dr. O'BRIEN—But I want to ask—
The CHAIRMAN—I beg to submit to the liberality of
the meeting whether a gentleman acting under directions
of such an arbitrary and tyrannical nature as had been
over your secretary should be so closely questioned in
this way.—(Cheers.) I stake my life on his character.—
(Cheers.) Neither he nor the old board should 'Jai

questioned very minutely on those matters.—(Hear.)
Dr. O' BRIEN —I submit at once. I believe he holds a
high character at York—(Hear, hear)—and for the sake
of the company I wished to give him an opportunity to
explain these matters, in order that the public should feel
a confidence in the character of their officers.
The SECRETARY thanked the meeting for the feeling
exhibited towards him. The committee of investigation
would inquire into the whole of the subject. He would
afford them every explanation of his conduct, and if they
thought he was to be condemned they would do so at
once.—(Hear, hear.) _

A PROPRIETOR inquired if there was any truth in the
report that Mr. Hudson had taken the company's painters
from the York stativn to Newby- park.—(A laugh.)
The CHAIRMAN—I think we had better leave that for
the committee of investigation.—("Hear," and a laugh.)
The report was then adopted unanimously.

A PROPRIETOR—What are you going to do with the
balance of 17,0001.? -(Hear, hear.)
The CHAIRMAN—We are in the hands of the share-
holders on that point. I think, in the face of the sus-
pense account, we could not recommend a dividend. I
am sorry for this. I know very well there will be cases
of great distress in consequence.—(Here arose a great
number of noises—" Yea, that there will! The' rascals!
What ruin they've caused! Not one of them can ever
hold up his head in York again. No men so des-
picable I")
The LORD MAYOR of York suggested they ought not
to divide the 17,000 L, as no provision had been made for
the deterioration of their stock. There could be no
question that some reserve fund was necessary for that
purpose, and looking to all the circumstances and extent
of their line he could not think less than 15,0001. a year
should be set aside.

Mr. Ross thought that question premature. The ex-
pense of rolling stook and permanent way was a matter
of inductive science as yet, and it was impossible to state
any sum precisely as enough for the purpose.
A PROPRIETOR—It is a matter of necessity to many
shareholders that the 17,0001. should be divided.—
(Hear, hear.) The reserved fund may be made next
half-year.—(Hear, hear.)
A PROPRIETOR asked if the portion of the line which
did not pay would be continued in full play?
The CHAIRMAN said the committee of investigation
would report fully on the state of their line. He re-
gretted to say that in looking over the receipts of one
line—Market Weighton—he found a day's receipts so
ljw as lid.—(A laugh.)
Mr. THOMPSON claimed a subscription of 500 L, which
had been promised on behalf of the company by Mr.
Hudson to the newly-erected hospital at York, and on
the faith of which the promoters had gone on with a
portion of the building.—(A great deal of opposi-
tion was manifested, and cries of " No, nor from several
persons in the meeting.)
Dr. O'BRIEN called on the solicitor to state if a promise
of Mr. Hudson could be binding on the company.
Mr. NEWTON replied that the shareholders alone
could vote away the money of the company.—(" Let
Hudson pay it himself!")
The CHAIRMAN said that though there was no resolu-
tion of a public meeting, it might be well to consider
how far the company ought in honour to perform the
promise, particularly as they derived advantage from it
in case of accidents. It was all a matter of feeling, and
the hospital had no strict right or claim at all.
On Mr. THOMPSON'S again urging the meeting to pay
the money, ,
Mr. RAMSAY (a proprietor), in a very high state of
excitement, both of manner and language, declared he
ought to be ashamed of himself to make such a proposi •
tiou at such a time, when the medical men could prove
hundreds would lose their lives through the rascality of
lan individual (whom' he named and denounced as a
1 sharper, scoundrel, liar, &e., amid the loud cheers of
the meeting.) His brother directors were as much to
blame. W hen it was said; "He-is-buying another es-
tate—he must be robbing us," he (Mr. Ramsay) said,
" Oh, no, that can't be ; we have Mr. Williams and Sir
i J. Simpson at the board, and they never would allow
him to rob us."—(Cheers.) In the name of the father-.
less and widow, he moved that this should not be paid.
Before he sat down he called on ,the meeting to express
their opinion that any one who associated with the per-
son already alluded to, or any member of his family,
should be held up as a disgrace to society.
After some further remarks from different speakers,
it was agreed to defer the consideration of the subject.
Mr. WILSON entered at some length into a series of
calculations to show that in its present state the line
could not possibly pay more than 11 per cent. on tho
whole capital, and proceeded with earnestness to enforce
a plan of his own for the better arrangement of their
affairs, recommending the Hull and Selby, the Lanca-
shire and Yorkshire, and the York and Midland to
appoint a certain number of directors to settle their
dispute amicably, and ultimately enabling the company
to have a dividend of 3} per cent. But the general feel-
ing of the meeting being against its consideration at that
time it was postponed to another meeting.
The CHAIRMAN (in reply to a proprietor) said he
hoped the report would be ready that day month, when
it would be laid before a general meeting.
Mr. PRICE moved, and Dr. O'BRIEN seconded, a vote
of thanks to the chairman and directors.

The CHAIRMAN, in returning thanks, expressed his
regret that neither his health nor his other engagements
would enable him to continue their chairman—(" We are
sorry to hear it")—but arrangements had been made that
the Lord Mayor should take his place.—(Hear, hear.)
He concluded by moving that they should resolve them-
selves into an

The CHAIRMAN—We have not made our report, and
we cannot answer the question; but it will not be a large
item. We have more rail and sleepers paid for than
will complete the Nottingham line.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. MAXWELL—How many contracts have you, and
to what amount? _

The CHAIRMAN—OnIy two, but we cannot state the
amount; one is yet under arbitration. You had better
leave this subject till the final report.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. RAND—I wish to ask you, Sir, if you think the
resignation of the directors should be received?
The CHAlRMAN—Personally I have the highest re-
spect for Mr. Dodsworth, and I think it essential this
meeting should know ho did not accept a share of any
kind.—(Cheers.) I am bound to do him and the other
directors the justice to say no men could be more assi-
duous in their attendance. I have but one objection to
Mr. Dods North. He refused to vote for the prosecution
of a defaulting clerk, for he felt as higher criminals had
been allo to escape minor criminals should not be
punished. Cheers and applause.) That objection
might be in his favour as a gentleman and man of feeling.
Mr. SWANN, in answer to Dr. O'Brien, stated that the
first distribution of 100 shares to the directors had been
received by all of them except Mr. Dodsworth and Mr.
Bostock. They were sold very soon after—almost irn-
mediately—
Hisses)—at from 7 to 10 premium.—(oll !)
Mr. LLOYD said the first 600 shares were sold at 11 to
13 premium; the 800 were sold for 9 or 10 premium.
Altogether te directors sold their shares at an average
of 1 l premium.—(" Ohl oh !)
Dr. O'BRIEN—Had they a right to appropriate those
shares ?
The CHAIRMAN—Certainly not.—(Cheers.) But I
must say. at the same time, that had Mr. Hudson in
those days proposed to take 500 shares himself, and give
each of the directors 100, you and I would have gladly
e
niILE-
-(" Yes, yes," "No, no.")
pn e
jm o do
NThe transaction was therefore mani-
festly uego,(Hear, hear.) The meeting should see,
ltt h
therefore, whether they could not empower the directors
to take immediate proceedings against every person who
had received and sold those shares.—(Hear, hear.) I
beg to suggest that the Committee of Investigation
should report on the propriety of taking legal steps to
recover these sums.—(Hear.)
Mr. RAMSEY asked it Mr. Peter Clarke was to be con-
tinued in the company's service?
The CHAIRMAN replied that he was still in the com-
pany's service, but that it was more as a personal
favour than anything else, and that he took upon him •
self all responsibility in regard to Mr. Clarke's actions.
He considered that it was a great benefit to the com-
pany to have the services of such a man ; that there
was no man perhaps so well versed in railway trans-
actions. -

Several shareholders objected to this, but the Chair-
man repeated his former assertions.

Mr. KINNEAR felt himself obliged to speak on this
subject. He thought Mr. Peter Clarke's former conduct
had rendered him unfit for further service in this com-
pany. He then went on to show that, through certain
information which had got abroad in the city, and
which he seemed to attribute to Mr. Clarke's having to
do with the making up of the accounts of the company,
the value of the undertaking had then not been de-
preciated, and that the facts of the case had been totally
misrepresented.
After some further discussion,
Dr. O'BaXEN proposed that the matter should be left
in the hands of the committee of investigation, which was
ultimately agreed to.
A SHAREHOLDER here asked about the error of 800/.
in the accounts?

The CHAIRMAN replied that he never saw it.
Mr. ROWNTREE explained that the error arose from
the sum of 5,0001., which had been paid for 102 waggons,
having been charged as current expenses instead of to
capital. Mr. Kennear differed from his opinion as to the
explanation given respecting the error. He said that
the original copies were out of their possession for some
time, and when they were returned he discovered that
alterations had been made in 15 or 16 different items.
He had found this out by having kept a copy of the ori-
ginal account.—(Cries of" Shame! simmer)
After further discussion on this point, it was left in the
hands of the committee.
A SHAREHOIDER then referred to the practice of the
company's servants bearing shares.
Mr. ROWNTREE proposed that as soon as ever any one
in that capacity was bearing shares, be should be dis-
missed the company's service immediately.
Mr. RAMSEY seconded the resolution, but an amend-
ment was afterwards carried, referring the matter to the
committee.

Dr. O'BRIEN then-asked Sir John Simpson if_he was
ready to refund the money upon his shares?
Sir J. SrstPsoN replied in a speech of. some length.
He said he served the company faithfully in London
during the sessions of Parliament, in the years 1845 and
1846, and he considered that be bad well earned his
shares. He declined to refund any money.
Dr. O'BRIEN said they would see whether their soli-
citors could not make him refund.
A long discussion ensued as to Mr. Dodsworth. The
question was, as whether he would be ranked with the
other directors who had illegally appropriated the shares
to themselves.
The shareholders spoke generally in the highest terms
of Mr. Dodsworth as a man of the highest integrity and
honour. _

A resolution was eventually carried calling upon the
whole of the directors to resign.
Mr. THOMPSON, of Moathall, proposed a resolution,
which was seconded by the CHAIRMAN, that the report
now presented be received and adopted.
This was carried unanimously.
_ _

Mr. RAND then moved that the resolution of the three
directors (Sir John Simpson, Mr. Jennings, and Mr.
Dodsworth) be received.
This having been seconded was also carried unani-
mously.
Thanks were then given to the Chairman and the
committee for their valuable services, and the meeting
separated, after sitting five hours.

NAVAL INTELLIGENCE.

PORTSMOUTH, FRIDAY.-By a letter from Rio, we have
information of a fine prize laving been made by the
Rifleman steam-vessel, LieutenanL-Commander Crofton.
On the 27th of June, whilst cruizing off Rio, she espied
a fine brigantine of auspicious rig, and gave chase; the
slaver, either through fear or mistaken policy, ran ashore
in a frightful surf, in which 200 out of 600 slaves were
drowned. The Rifleman saved 127 from the residue,
and took them safely to Rio, and placed them on board
the receiving ship Crescent. It was ascertained that
two other slavers started at the same time as the brigan-
tine, each full of slaves.

The Scout, 14, Commander F. E. Johnson, is hourly
expected from China. Should she make this port, orders
are awaiting her to proceed immediately to Devonport
to be paid off.

The Dragon steam-frigate, Captain Hall, was removed
from the steam-basin this afternoon complete in the
engineer refit.

The Ajax steam-guardship having returned all her
ballast and got a clean swept hold, was taken into the
steam-basin to-day, out of the way of commission.
The Sprightly steam-tender was hauled out of the
steam-basin to-day to be commissioned by Mr. Allen, of
the Fire Queen, for port service in lieu of that vessel.

On being called upon for their defence, the woman de.
elined saying anything, but the male prisoner declared
that the whale of the property found in his posses ion
had been entrusted to him by a person who had answered
an advertisement for ettipl.iyrnent.
It having been intimated by Sergeant Kelly that he
should be able to establish several other cases against
them if sufficient time were allowed him fin. that purpose,
the prisoners were ordered to be remanded for a week.

CLERKENWELL.
George Johnson, a ruffianly-looking fellow, was
charged by Letitia Crook, the wife of a labourer, re-
siding in Balls-pond, Islington, with having brutally
asSAulted her.

The prosecutrix was shockingly bruised and muti-
lated about the head, face, and neck, and was in a very
weakly state.
It appeared that on the previous day the prisoner,
who was drunk, quarrelled with the prosecutrix's hus-
band, and made a desperate attack upon him. She in-
terfered to prevent further violence, when the prisoner
struck her a tremendous blow on the head, continued
beating her, and whilst she lay on the ground he kicked
her repeatedly on the head and neck, until he left her
apparently lifeless. The prisoner was taken to the
station•house after a desperate resistance.
The prisoner., in his defence, said he was first attacked;
but this being contradicted, and the evidence of the
prosecutrix having been confirmed by several witnesses,
the prisoner was c.invicted in the extreme penalty of 51.,
or in default of payment two months' imprisonment iu
the House of Correction.
LAMBETH.
John Amy Hening, Henry Roberts, and Thomas Cro•
ton, persons who have for years been victimising the
public by representing themselves as the officers of a
sham society which they called the " Animals' Friend
Society," and obtaining subscriptions to a considerable
amount, were agai❑ I laced at the bar before Mr. Norton,
when some further evidence was gone through, and the
prisoners were again remanded.