The Sun.
London, England, 1847-11-05 00:00:00

LORD JOHN RUSSELL AND THE
BIRMINGHAM DEPUTATION.
Yesterday afternoon, the deputation appointed at
the meeting recently held in Birmingham, in reference
to the financial and commercial condition of the coun-
try, had an interview with Lord J. Russell.
G. F. MUNTZ, Esq., introduced the members of the
deputation severally to his Lordship, and then ob-
served on the inefficiency of the Government measure
of relief, that the great reduction of the profits of
trade had rendered it impossible for merchants or
manufacturers to borrow money at a high rate of
interest, for the purpose of employing it in their
trades. if they borrowed it in any case, it would
only be to meet engagements already entered into,
and pressing upon them, but in no case to embark it
in any new undertaking. He further strongly
cautioned his Lordship against the danger and uncon-
stitutional proceeding of listening to interested arid
irresponsible advisers. It was clearly understood that
a gentleman he would not hesitate to name (Mr.
Jones Loyd) had great influence in advising the
Government in these injurious measures, without
sharing the responsibilities. Now he did not object
to Government inquiring of experienced men, but he
did oject to this surrender to an irresponsible and
biassed party.
.Llr. R. SPOONER showed that though importations
of gold were taking place to some extent, it did not
appear in the Bank coffers, and would not appear
there till the measures of Government were of so
efficient and decided a character as to restore general
confidence. He deprecated the usurious interest, and
commented with great' severity on the degrading
partnership of profit proposed ;
and pointed to the
danger of causing a sulaken,,change in general invest-
ments and deposits, aggravating all the evils it was
intended to abate. He then alluded to the different
state of affairs now and Ba 1825. In 1825, the panic
having destroyed the home demand, the considerable
stocks then on hand were sent out on consignment,
and though sold at a ruinous loss, still they brought
back gold. There were now no large stocks on hand,
and stocks for exportation would not be created under
the present usurious interest. He then showed the
rapid cessation of employment that was going on, and
urged strongly both the inhumanity and danger of
allowing the people to be thus deprived of their means
of existence.
Mr. SCHOLEPIELD confirmed Mr. Spooner's views,
by showing that the foreign orders on hand were only
very partially being executed on account of the diffi-
culty of converting even thelbest bills into cash, or any
available means.
On Mr. SALT being asked what was the rate of
discounts at joint-stock bunks prior to the publication
of Lord John Russell's letter, he stated that, as far as
he had heard, it did not 'exceed 7i per cent.; but
that, on the publication of this letter, a rate of 9 per
cent., 10 per cent., and even higher. Mr. Salt then
proceeded to call his Lordship's attention to the
very injurious effects of his measure. The excessive
rate of interest demanded; compelled holders of pro-
perty to make forced sales, under the most unfa-
vourable circumstances, thus depressing ruinously
all property. The general fall in the value of
property thus effected by the money-laws, and
the attempt to mend them, could not be less than
20 per cent.; and taking the value of the property
of the nation at five thousand millions, which was
a low estimate, the loss, as regarded the power of
meeting engagements, effected by his Lordship's mea-
sures, or by the measures he maintained, was not less
than a thousand millions, or more than the whole of
the national debt. The further effect of raising the
value of money higher than the rate of profits was to
make it impossible for manufacturers to employ the
people. It was a law against the property, the sol-
vency, and the life of the people. He warned his
Lordship that the people would not submit to be ex-
terminated in this way—the manufacturers would not
submit to it. He, for one, would stand by his men,
and he had no doubt that.others would do the same,
and they would permit no Government to exist that
did not enable the people to live. Mr. Salt
complained of the extreme ignorance of Ministers,
and their legislating on questions of such vast
importance, not only without inquiry, but with a
direct refusal to inquire. Petitions for inquiry had
been constantly laid before them, but had always
been met by a refusal, and fresh legislation had
been rushed into, fresh errors been committed, and
fresh and aggravated calamities been produced. He
called on his Lordship to review the vast wreck that
had been made. He hoped his Lordship would not
think him disrespectful if he offered him proof of the
ignorance of the Government. So late as February,
the Chancellor of the Exchequer boasted of the sound
state of the country, and treated as visionary the fear
of danger. Again, he told the Newcastle deputation,
even on the 28th of September, that there was plenty
of money for those who could offer good security.
His Lordship, twenty days after, acknowledged the
difficulties of the country to the Liverpool deputation,
but told them he could give no relief. [His Lord-
ship said he had told the Liverpool deputation that
he would give them an answer the next morning.]
Mr. Salt resumed. Very true, my Lord; but this
answer was a refusal, and a declaration that your
Lordship would not violate the law. Within five
days your Lordship did violate the law; and in the
letter by which your Lordship did so, your Lordship
did, with singular candour, acknowledge that all your
calculations, and all your anticipations, had been
shown by the events to be wrong. Mr. Salt renewed
here his complaints of the character of the measure of
relief, and begged his Lordship to consider the re•
sponsibility he incurred if; after these repeated errors,
and their consequent calamities, he did not institute an
immediate inquiry. Mr. Salt further complained that
the ruin inflicted by Ministers had been aggravated
by the libels they had uttered against their victims.
He denied that the misfortunes of the country had
been in any respect brought on by railway
specula-
tions. The railway undertakings were sound and va-
luable undertakings, conducive to the national welfare,
and in no degree exceeding the national strength.
They had no more to do with share-jobbing than the
gambling-houses had to do with trade. They were
aloof and uncontaminated by these practices, which
were confined within an entirely different circle. He
reminded his Lordship that no difficulty occurred till
the Bank of England began to contract its issues, to
refuse all customary accommodation, until—to use
Sir Robert Peel's own cruel and appropriate phrase—
until the Bank put the screw on, that was the marked
period when prosperity was turned into ruin. That
was the error and the guilt, and it was a bitter ag
gravation to attempt to conceal the crime by libelling
its victims. Under the effect of this screw the navvies
and the labourers could not be employed ; they were
deprived of their means of existence by law. Mr. Salt
required that a large measure of relief should be im-
mediately given—that money should be freely ad-
vanced at moderate rates on all good securities—and
that meanwhile a full inquiry should be instituted,
with a view to permanent legislation ; and be thought
it his duty to warn his Lordship that if the Ministers
would not give relief he should feel it his duty to
apply to her Majesty for 'the immediate dismissal of
Ministers.
At the conclusion of Mr. Salt's appeal,
His LORDSHIP replied, that if he listened to the re-
presentations of the deputation he might afford tem-
porary relief, but that his compliance would involve
a tenfold measure of suffering hereafter.
oafllitnhge into a distress as
country, and the
Mr. MASON fully confirmed the statements that
had been made of the distress of the people, and that
Bgrieramtiansghtahmat
owfaosthrear partspidly falling
applications for parish relief bad greatly increased :
that increase would give but a very inadequate idea
l e classes,t
hh eere adherence e to
and
of the destitution of the working classes. Such desti-
tution could not be attributed to a bad harvest. A
national thanksgiving for abundance refuted this, but
rboten seo n
errorsl attributedveinc
yof thee m
t hteomt hoen obstinate s tiriidadte ad laws,
to o mainte-
nance of which every other interest, every consi-
deration, tn
ounsstt
the
the lives of the people were to be sacrificed. He
felt assured that if his Lordship could be-
come aware of the extent of suffering of the people,
that his great consideration of humanity would
induce him to grant ample relief. It was the duty
of the deputation to deal candidly; and, with all due
respect, he was bound to tell his Lordship, that, unless
immediate redress was given, an immediate appeal
must be made to her Majesty. The operations of the
currency, as now administered, aimed directly at
reducing the wages, and, still worse, at reducing the
employment of labour. The object aimed at was the
reduction of the English to the level of the continental
labourer; but the English workman had to pay more
than double, in some cases three times the taxation
paid by the foreign labourer. Employers cannot
suddenly force wages. Labourers cannot submit to
a breaking up of all their habits, and therefore, when
prices break down below a living level, the workmen
will be discharged, Discharge, and not reduction of
wages
result. This was the case in Bir-
minghis the first
am. In some of
manufacturing districts
the
every pressure, and
they reduced the wages under
endeavoured to redeem profits out of wages. No
hostility existed in Birmingham between employers
and employed ; but one opinion prevailed—that ed tha the
present money-laws have been the source of t
national
dishonour and ~,ufrering. He trusted his Lordship
would feel it a most solemn duty to the country to
recommend the necessity of an inquiry into the prin-

Lciples and operation of the present system of currency.
He trusted his Lordship's mind would be impressed
with the circumstances under which the country is
labouring.
Mr. HARLOW observed that the operation of the
money-laws on the various interests of society had
been clearly set forth by Mr. Muntz and the other
speakers. He urged upon his Lordship the necessity
of a thorough examination into the question;and the
adoption of larger measures of relief; such as would
restore confidence and prevent the breaking-up of
trade. The inquiry must be one of greater extent
than had hitherto been allowed, and the question
must be looked at with reference to the condition
and welfare of society. They must not begin with
the forgone conclusions of the necessity of a standard
of gold or a standard of silver; but they must in-
quire freely what systems would be most conducive
to the promotion of the general interests of society,
and especially of c productive classes. He assured
his Lordship, fhe would boldly and fearlessly
enter upon this 'y, he would be supported by
the people, but the neral welfare must be the para-
mount and guiding principle.
Oa Lord Jour( RUSSELL ris•g to close the inter-
view,
Mr. SALT expressly asked h rdship whether he
was prepared to grant present efficient relief, and a
full inquiry into the effects of the existing monetary
legislation ?
His LORDSHIP, after a deliberati( n of a few
seconds, replied, "I .do not say that I will cr I w
not."
The deputation retired.

DINNER TO THE EARL OF
DALHOUSIE.
Yesterday evening the Honourable the Eist India
Company entertained the Earl of Dalhousie, previous
to his departure for India as the Governor General of
that vast empire, with a sumptuous and magnificent
banquet. Large as these adjectives are in their sig-
nification, they convey but a poor idea of the splen-
dour and rich profusion of every adjunct which luxury
could devise or wealth procure to add to the weight
of this manifestation of the regard of the East India
Company to their honoured officer. The London
Tavern was selected as the scene of the entertain-
ment, and all the resources at the command of that
establishment were abundantly put forth to carry out
the wishes of the entertainers. The tables glittered
with lustrous crystal and the richest plate. Epergnes
and centre pieces of every device sparkled in long
array beneath the glowing wax lights, and the band
of the Guards (which attended in the gallery at the
end of the room) performed a selection of pieces in
which the neat propriety of the tunes was as remark-
able as the perfection of their execution.
At seven o'clock the Right Hon. the Earl of Dal-
housie entered the room, accompanied by the Chair-
man and after him came Lord John Russell, Lord
Glenelg, the Right lion. the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, the Rev. T. Hay, Vice-Chancellor Wigram,
the Lord Chief Baron, Sir J. C. Hobhouse, Viscount
Jocelyn, the Attorney-General, Sir C. Pollock, the
Marquis of Douro, Lord Langdale, Lord Campbell,
Right Hon. T. B. Macaulay, Sir D. Le Merchant,
and Mr. Brooke, the Raja of Sarrawak, accompanied
by numerous Lords and gentlemen, as Mr. Justice
Wightman, Sir G. Couper, the Rev. Mr. Melvin, Sir
J. IV. Hogg, Sir J. Pelly, Sir J. Macdonald, Mr.
Lyall, Mr. Masterman, Mr. B. Hawes, Mr. C. Buller,
M.P., Sir F. Fane,'the Recorder, &c. &c.
The dinner, in which every exertion was made by
Messrs. Bathe and Breach to meet the greatness of
the occasion, and the greatest skill exhibited in the
culinary art, having been at length brought to a close,
after a grace from the Rev. the Chaplain of the East
India Company,
The CHAIRMAN proposed " The health of the
Queen, long may ker Majesty live to enjoy the affec-
tion and loyalty of her subjects."—(Loud cheers.)
" God save the Queen," all the company standing.
The CHAIRMAN then gave "The Queen Dowager,"
which was received with markei honours ; and " The
health of Prince Albert and the rest of the Royal
Family," which also elicited the strongest marks of
attachment and respect.
The CHAIRMAN then rose and said—My Lords and
Gentlemen, we are met on this occasion—on this, I
will say, most auspicious occasion—(Cheers)—to pay
a just compliment to the Noble Lord on my right, on
the event of his being appointed to his high and most
important station, as Chief Governor of India.—
(Cheers.) My Lords and Gentlemen, a more impor-
tant and more sacred trust cannot fall to the lot of any
one.—(Cheers.) It cannot fall to any man's share to
discharge more important duties, and the Noble Lord
at my right ought to feel gratified not merely because
of the high appointment that has been conferred upon
him, but because of the manner in which he has ob-
tained it. It was conferred upon him by the spon-
taneous movement of the Company. It was conferred
upon him as a mark of public favour, uninfluenced by
any feelings of party or by any sentiments of a
political nature —(Loud cheers) The Noble Lord
who has obtained this high honour is not connected
with the existing Administration, but this Adminis-
tration, anxious, as I believe, to find a fitting officer
for so high a trust, agreed unanimously in the selec-
tion of his Lordship.—(Cheers.) He, my Lords and
Gentlemen, is called upon by this appointment to rule
over the most magnificent empire that was ever ac-
quired in the history of the world—he is called upon
to rule over countless millions of human beings, pro-
fessing different religions, and exercising different
habits, and professing sentiments widely different in
their moral and physical system. It is his duty, his
arduous and important duty, to consolidate this multi-
form and various population, by measures suited to
their varying feelings and belief. He has the com-
plete control over the system of legislation which has
been devised for that empire, and on the proper and
rightful execution of that system of legislation the
happiness and well- being of that vast community de-
pend. In assuming this high office the Noble Lord
follows a long line of most illustrious predecessors
he follows in the train of a long succession o
statesmen who have administered the affairs of that

great empire, and with the noble example of their
great talents and vast success before him, I am sure, my
Lords and Gentlemen, he will not fall short of those
who have gone before him. These statesmen, my
Lords, have extended as far as possible the benefits
of just legislation, and have gone as far as circum-
stances would enable them to obtain the security of
this vast and extraordinary empire.—(Cheers.) Con-
tending systems of belief, religions of different sec-
tions, and far opposed to each other, are to be recon-
ciled and made to harmonize in this difficult course of
legislation. But the great difficulty that the Gover-
nor General of India has to encounter lies in the fact
that he, alone and exclusively, has to administer the
whole system of political authority. In conquering
men of various political sentiments and conflicting
feelings, and in reconciling them to his authority, he
has a most arduous duty to perform. He must in
the discharge of that duty, be conversant with the
commercial interests of this country; but in this, as in
every other respect, I feel that these interests are safe,
and that the Noble Lord wilfao justice to this country.
It is on these grounds, and on these grounds only,
that he has been called to the administration. I will

not detain you any longer, nor occupy your time by
further comments on this subject. This is not the
_ ....

occasion on which I could with propriety do so, and
I shall therefore only express my ardent and most
fervent wish, that after a long and successful adminis-
tration, he may return in health to his native land,

to receive the grateful respect and heartfelt homage
of his fellow-countrymen, and of the great people
whom he shall have so ably represented and served.
—(Loud cheers.)
Air, "The Laird of Cock-pen."—(Laughter.)
The Earl of DALHOUSIE rose amidst loud cheers,
and said—Mr. Chairman, my Lords and Gentlemen,
I wish you to receive my warm, my most grateful
thanks, for the honour you have done me in drinking
my health, and for the kind and flattering manner in
which it has been proposed. The Chairman has only
justly stated my feelings, when he said I must feel
proud and gratified by the honour that has been con-
ferred upon me. My Lords and Gentlemen, it is
needless to say how high are the feelings of pride
and gratification which I experience at finding
myself selected by the East India Company, unsoli-
cited (and that this honour was unsolicited I can

most truly say), to one of the highest offices to which
any public man, be his aspirations what they may,
can venture to aspire. But, my Lords and Gentle-

men, my feelings of gratification and pride at being
thus selected are still further enhanced by
. .

the fact that my appointment was made by the
advice of her Majesty's confidential advisers--

(Cheers)—from whom, as I had not the honour

of acting with them in a political association,
I had no right to expect such a high and distin-
guished mark of confidence and respect.—(Loud
cheers.) The future must be a proof of ray gratitude,
and I can only express a hope that it may justify in
some degree the high honour you have done me in
the office that you have just conferred upon me. But
brilliant as this appointment is, noble as are its op-
portunities, I can assure you,',my Lords and Gentle-
men, I have not accepted it from any feeling of per-
sonal ambition, or from any desire of personal grati-
fication, but solely from the belief that it was my
duty to do so, as a public man, at the time and under
the circumstances when the proposal was made to