The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-27 00:00:00

EVENINia EDITION.

THE IRISH DEBATE.

FROM THE MORN. _......
( From th ING PAPERS OF THIS DAY.
. The di
nd.defeated t'
vision of Thu'
~ e &Turning Chronicle.)
Iremnd asday evening has, for the present, saved
Pete
r tiyacrsheoufhdieaeLcirtb, ethoraaswl
h,ii
rri •
friend ,ae designs of the Tory party. So far every
iciples, every advocate of religious toleration,
,in the honour and security of the British em_
lanchol .. .eason to rejoice, But, on the other hand, there
E nemation
in
the "e. :ent debate and division to excite serious and me-
....ma y re.fleeti,
ins. That, fourteen years after the passing of the
the only 01 Act, and ni:ie after the passing
994‘Members of the Reform Bill,
, should have been found to vote against a measure,
the: prin.. ijection to which is that it proposes to carry out
the last *pies then established ; that after the experience of
And
4, five years, proving to demonstration the facility
eiliati. Ivantages of governing Ireland on principles of con.
virt, Jn, 294 Members should. have been found to vote
ter 'ally for a recurrence to the exploded Orange sys-
e 4 ; that of the two great parties which divide the state one
courslnuld have committed itself finally and irrevocably to a
course of policy which, in all human probability, mvst lead to con_
e
disastrous for the. peace and welfare of the empire ;
:hese ..
,„„ these' say, are facts which may well serve to sober any exulta-
-7 tnat Might otherwise LK.. felt at the victory which has been
ittzll4l_ hieved. Above all, the. speeches of the Conservative leaders in
acolaurmrse of the debate are calculated to excite at once disgust
Are these th e men to whom an accident or caprice of
fortune
... , een a
may intrust the destinies of this mighty empire ?—men
Who to,
questicl 'involving the highest principles, a question
"-8 aught with the most momentous consequences and practical re.
Lein
was before her momentous
could find no better way of treating it
semi in ti
ion and petty
ant,. the old. hackneyed, miserable manner of personal
, ."1 sentence I
ever , quibbling, lawyer-like detail ; men, whose
proclaimed that they wanted either the
jtbri7tglii t to ri:
h; k-4 cern, or the courage to speak the
What i w....c" vi as apparent to every unprejudiced looker-on.
was e it to '.
. t, ie people of England whether this or that opinion
IP.eased by this or that Member a given number of years ago
slvhether
Itit O'C a iis or that was the' understan _Ling •'' of Sir R. Peel or
iihrth. °he el', at the time when the Em:cmeipation Act was passed,
Pareararf•t-48.• or that is the strict lee,al construction of an Act of
did not eatsLs obscure and perple7,ed as the bungling of men who
for the kov , their own minds vriuld make it ? The broad question
WI, e Pee ple of England ',s, how shall Ireland be governed ?
ta, , --tool .ing at the rese..,ts of past experience, at the temper and.
far: Of fet 'ling of the Irish t ation, gild at our relations with
.tist's bet )re the 1161
44-7" "triegVill be the practical results of the rival ma_
re,litate'ause e t
rtatie ~, shrur:K n se ? And this is precisely the question which
a°'
s'Wer n, w.o offer themselves as candidates for the possession
rom answering. Is the state of our relations with
'lttetti: le", a re silty and less a most important element
.in the
tonnt'n .x 1 Irish policy, because Sir Itobert Peel, with prudish de_
dish, . expresse d himself shocked at the introduction of such a
at; seeable top is in a Parliamentary debate ? It may sound dis-
-41 cable to Tc ry ears to hear of obstacles in the way of their ac.
le doe to 05: it may sound disagreeable to hear the truth,
the
ostrich ears
t dere the truth is not exactly what we wish or desire; but unt.,
escape the hunter by thrusting its silly head, into
tee sand, it will appear to the people of England but a p0,,,r policy
co Alit their eyes on facts which common sense ar.,d common
leaders require them to look steadily in the fa,te, The Tory
most
cannot escape from this dilemma—e'.ther they are the
,tiesthtoPerbliaid of pc liticians, if they suppor: Lord Stanley's Bill,
tes„„4 a clear deEnite view of its ine•-..itable consequences and
101 l 'Without 41 settled deterrainatie,n to brave the indignation of
lien,,,d. abandon she attempt at governiug by conciliation,
.and actf
13 'etertli consist ently and unde:viatingly upon the principles
trick.
etecashl(Policy : or, they are th,e most false and insincere of
rniad.' seeing these conseevences, and having made up their
tow-. t° These results, the g profess to argue the question upon nar.
led. Untinds of precedent and authority, to disclaim all foreknow.
to
litvornder which
Tll7sei!)f. the imPort'Alt t onsequences which cannot fail to follow.inferi.
set„
.' 1 Which exialai us the embarrassment and
.c .
tbs. speakers on the Conservative side
.appeared
Were Ur throughout •
the course of the debate. The fact is, they
.._41,11 afriaki t° IP" Jk out. On the other hand, the language of
leW:ltenri arid of e' len. supporters was that emphatically of honest.
totinteannot fail •
le tica -.• Men whr , had fully made up their minds, and had nothing
b4te erve
Which'
to thmake a deepey were afraidand or
fav asourable impression on hamed to avow. The de.
the
itir
beit 171 Sod ts* strengthen the hands of the Liberal party for the
° bevylilii, -
11 ' they will be called upon tofight for the cause of

1•° ( From the Times.)
!ighte-,! 7 ou joy, Lord Melbourne, of your majority, after four
save, "e'ra te, and in a House of 597 Members, besides pairs, tv
stets t 4, a vote which in effect, if it were to have any sensible
tilsoZ34llld be one for the repeal of the Union with Ireland—fir
liscatC thrown of all genuine liberty in that island—for the con.
the p of property throughout that island—for the extinction of
totestant faith within that island, by the ultimate extermina-
ter4c" who durst profess it (sinking any reference to a minor
Nee b-snarnely the breaking up of the system of election created by
..404eforrn Bill of 1332, with its various adjuncts and appendages)
144 thOrlinnembeement of the British empire, and the establish..
kty, " a French %Doi and vassal at our threshold; we give you
Is`' guardian ot' a duped, blinded, and traitor-stricken Princess!
itl4i!ter, Ut whom, through an infatuation calamitous
4. to, herself inglorious, the Queen of this great
%eh bath, reposed her misguii and ill-requited con-
-1414.:e• kd You, Lord Viscount Melbourne, we congratulate,
,•tb 'nett circumstances, on your majority of " five whole votes"
• e Dr,
lathe cue number which was assigned to you by this Journal
titelekline article of last ';Nednesday—" a vote for every pound"
*l44l:Projected qualificrlion of Lotd Morpeth. Yes ; you are
1
Yoe., Of this disgraceful, —this fortunately barren triumph. WheOn
•14,„rra`ca mated Your Bill fr,r subverting the representative constitution
heC vote twenty raonths ago, by an equal majority of " five
d parka.
s. your 7.,ordship declared it to be so plain a proof that
kenosfrnent a your own summoning had withdrawn its confi-
_rosiznTin Yon, • to leave you no alternative but that of at once
aeas world well knows the progress of that scandalous
:hit ani I its prepared results. The interests of 26,000,000
,lansekTeint 'and 100,000 Hindoos, were sacrificed with re.
P ::"'.ty to an itrigue of the Bedchamber, characteristic of
:nd -; en (2ourt before the revolution; and the Sovereign's name
Lash 1-;;I:417s disrespectfully compromised, as if her Majesty had
tie ,-,41 ignorance that her dominions, or her duties, extended
hand
I'4 s Palace walls. You, Lord Melbourne, cannot look back
-nUrth. a transaction without shame. You will not repeat the.
fat 0.111,5 t May twelvemonth; and, otherwise than in the spirit
.7 a you have become not capable even the formality
t7anation. The Ministers, then, not immediately re-
ot %
.ksat the country is prepared for. But what is the amount
readkel! victory ? We long ago wa•med them that the second
IlinsZ 'would not carry with it ;he principle of this atrocious
Ntii% aat it would not carry the five pound franchise, in
tell a lone the real principle, of the Bill consisted. We will
has do ad Melbourne utat the vote of Thursday night
pkan
.nrteunfintyr ofh reject,im, It
ay x wickedness secures to the House of Commonsd
the 51. qualification on its especial and
PA whatever moment the Melbourne Cabinet
414. d ore to take tb'eir stand upon it in Committee. T.hey have
4,1,11 Yktb„een ridie ukd and lashed by the Times out of their scheme
4,4'4g Cnis criminal measure for the remainder of the pre-,,
4!'114;e,;d°4 of Parliament. They have talked big about fixing
"`rtet. for co.iimitting the 51. clause. We trust it is no
sk,latel noham Committee. We trust that Sir Robert
Zu•it'y, --,olle speech on Thursday last exhibited such masterly
t
'1414;'.' and so abounded in plain speaking and in pluck, will no
rS,,ra to have the Committee on this most profligate and dishonest
Irts sho r
ib
• r- shove shov off, under any pretext however plausible, beyond
't..
Rae, —t Peri
Lion od at which it can be finally disposed of, and the
•Inditin caused by it laid safely asleep.
( From the Morning Post.)
- cAttuot s
th ee the slightest chance of any good results to Ireland
ASt.e Ministerial majority on the new O'Connell Reform Bill.
• lolit•l the Mass of the peasantry, who ought to have no concern in
to the Nete, at
he ail , they will be inflamed upon the occasion, according►
etr vi ,vs of the agitating Romish priesthood. and whatt
p,l'e,r,funages may think of the majority of five we cannot yet
determine. But all intelligent persons in Ireland, w
.a
1.4'1 they may belong to, must be well aware that a Bill which
'1.4„,47 force
of Ministerial whipping can carry through the second
.404 bet
a • •
Majority of only five has not the remotest chance of
,-"Sy b. cess. The end, then, is, that there has been, and
*144 tu-L, great deal of excitement on the subject of the Bill.
'l7 that is no good for Ireland, No one can suppose.
tsl additional dose of excitement is needful to the politi-
'4.t4),,it,h of that part of the United Kingdom. The practical
„"'en every one now acknowledges— the continual stream
41 aild injustice in respect of the registration of voters—
:NZ4a- No check will have been applied. Instead of re.
mop -4 the evil, it v,al prove tttat Government, upon the sugges-
t44re O'Conne;; have preferred a party struggle—have pro-
..7lch 2)ckerY of a settlement—because clogged with a condition
rit Governm ant is not strong enough, and knows it is not
by tl:unUgh, to carry. We may be told that this is no reason
4nle7 "overninr nt should consent to the measure of Lord
I,,ctisir'nrrhich it dc _ems a bad one. We reply that we are not now
as.-4
At! turd ta-nley's measure, but that of the Government.
L-vasur lnistra;if it did not like Lord Stanley's remedial
-more lnight haveinn tied another of its own, but that would not
-"awerecl the purposes
of factious disturbance which Mr.
-1
aired
s has in view. - The Government tries to overleap
the
wingY that it has not strength to do so, and that
catif,,eastar-t •
Ili, stony will tumble down midway, making much
4,7 ; bUt leaving a the xistin and
wiseadmittd
as they are. And this ise what is called a
1 "eta -.4. 'Government! That which the present Government has
t Inn it t
to as tti,t promote uneasiness and uncertainty in every. quarter.
RC, *II P. Way upon the principle of the Reform Bill. 'he
it°;'? roPosed that new constitution are ready to abandon it
0115*-! violently opposed, but still they hold to it where they
ell the d•They avow their readiness to abandon it without hav-
es Of P°Wer to make any change in it. All this can but add to a
6'4 it 'Unsettlement and confusion, which is already far too great.
-41 to lannot be too great for the enemies of the British nation,
`gese enemies the present Government is willing to succumb.
hitt'
in th ( From the Morning Herald.)
4,, to rah,:e analysis which we publish in another column of the
(44 of
I "' secondn the reading of Lord blorpeth's Regis-
\rot
so. 'non- ors (Ireland) Bill, of yesterday morning, a most aeon_
'un Mav be formed of the of demion which
'at -ra theea
respective p molitical op iniobroad ns lines
of the countyarc and borough
~44, 4 the landed and the manufacturing proprietary of Eng-
'chiToand, Wales, and Ireland. What may be the view in
Morpeth and his colleagues in the Government indulge,
.100, vi I contemplate the motley composition of their sacred le.
*vett edo not pretend to divine. No doubt they feel all that
on of
sling spirit, all that lofty enjoyment, all that pride of victory,
ti back at their overwhelming superiority of numbers (a
3' represented by a quintupled unit!) which Abulfecia
1.74(1„ ar:,_the first conquerors of the Punjaub when their victorious
girt' 4"-..a-atllad been borne, in succession, across the five great
In. keint."Uggested the descriptive designation which that region
1rie„..41,14 Have not. her ittajesty's Government the gratify-
tjzlhes24...4oo,:corZnoinedir;ous majority o,:stt tWiho to -number. among the illustrious band which pro_
ority of five, the five great O's ?
O'Conaell, Maurice; O'Connell, Morgan
Who "ells John ; O'Connor, Don; to say nothing of
•cigure in. the old Borg, the
144. `Callaghans, Brallaghans, 0'
but not the 1. Verrall, O'Brien likewise !"
at C' Ptibhe l'Ah-minded, self revjecting, conscientious, patriotic,
eitpPreaorit -iitlnzited, disinterested, stern-of-purpose advisers who
14„,4ted aY her Majesty's corneas, the happiness of being
eee ah, " shoulders of those whc maintain with most vehe-
(a rPi am
re ?,,earnestness the scheme 01 d.smembering her " United
ek'otruktna; , Have they not all the penile who, like Mr. Muntz
Atieed thei:.Reru " Auld 13eardye,") have Renounced royalty and de-
ft tattlii
_up hesita ti ng preference for letublicanism, or who, like
4..Y11 Lae: the four big O's alrea".,y nacned, have held up the
4.sie 1117
Qnrnent established in the Unital States over and over
ti„,‘ sceithie_.nlY Government wor'th having, vhile they have jeered
the notion of Enr;lishmen desiring to retain inviolate
Arenrtdruht `ll`adriConstitution;—nave not the Government, with them
to the e• these stand-, supporters of a Crown—these ardent
to,tc.? they 'sting order of things ? But wsat is the account
taoer" all la
.afte!alltr,viug for the whole of their own number,
an:
...Yrs,
tainede t"ri:n.e.iatffii cial retainers, whether, in possossion or expec_
Y all the joints of the man of Kerry's tail P Let
?IcZi!reseotedt the feeling of the great landed interest in Britain,
tee • .1„"P M-tubers for counties of England and Wales, and
tiZnbet.,
,ozcona,
hoted of these Members, 120, and foer University
enon,_ _ • e second reading of a Bill, which they %bus empha •
Fl62slStatt,..._":ed. as a covert and disgraceful attempt to introduce Uni-
itt4ittize,noct,:gziroati:it,,rtoitozof the integral members of the Empre.Seven.
counties, the majority of whom have never
AlNb"errit,,,,ett° put upon record their distrust of and m.ntem.pt
by O'Co'anell, and four Irish Urrversity
4tth.ritetes,:,: Cf72.OttrrPe:
.yvercilth their Conservative and loyal brethren.
lot‘_lo (the
.7at_ with
an', Ireland 137 county representatives,
1,410141
sheetasti,it. le number; of the University Members, In al 147,
Aft, °„ ..neeseco„nd reading. For the second reading, the
tsbitheit h the solemn and irrevocable compact,' as
14,41u"0 brono"ltlit't'cally terniea the cabal of LiclAeld Rout%
tai444 with the ()To, 11.
gnousque 2Willillr, into a Tork,t thou Government ; the whole force whith
0t1,44d. r reaPtctivelYl muster
0, was tor England, Wales,
5, Is 5 ; in 11 county