The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-02 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 2, 1847.

which thus found their way into these pockets none returned
back to the si,il in that manner in whirl, it is returned by the

'a! pc, it

lows tab at teor wean... ilia CI.: lon a tee
people. Such tons the condition of by far the largest propor-
tion of the Irish landlords. There was, however, an exception
to thie el. sa. He believed that many of the abs7ntee landlords
instead of deserving the censure which had been so lavishly be-
stowed upon them, were, on the contrary, deserving of praise.
He believed, and he could mention the names of many Noble
Lords, well known to Members of that House, who would be
found to be among the number of the most beneficent landlords
in Ireland. He need only mention the name of a Noble Mar-
quis—the Mrrquis of Lansdowne—in order to satisfy the
House of the truth of his assertion. He (Mr. Reeheek )
saw one great source of Irish evils in having the people abso-
lutely bound to the soil, and unable to depend upon or to de-
part from it. If they were sent from their holdings, they would
be perfectly ',unable to obtain their living. Of all the ob-
servations which fell from the Noble Lord at the head of
the Government when he last addressed the House,
that one who had studied the subject of Ireland so much,
should have stated that the sub-division of property in that
country was net an evil—that surprised him most. That part
of Ireland which he adduced in order to prove his assertion,
was a manufacturing part of Ireland. The land in that district
was held by persons who maintained themselves by other occu-
pations, and those little holdings in the neighbourhood of
Armagh, to which the Noble Lord had alluded,
were held more by way of recreation than any-
thing else. As well might the Noble Lord have
said that the suburban districts of London were divided into a
number of small divisions, and endeavoured to infer from that,
that the sub-division of land was not injurious. He would
again briefly allude to the great master evil of Ireland. The
unfortunate division of land into these petty holdings, from
which the landlords could not remove their tenants, they being
in reality more the possessors of the land than the landlords
themselves. What was then to be done ? Was it possible by
any means so to fashion the legislation of the Government as
to make it the interest of certain parties to watch over and
prevent this constant sub-division of land? If the Govern-
ment could not do that., they must throw down their hands and
give up the tasks. Until that could be done, it was useless to
hope to do any good for Ireland. He thought, however, that
it was within the legitimate means of Parliament to accom-
plish that end, but he must deprecate every attempt on
the part of the Government to become a land-jobber, a corn-
factor, or a road-maker. All those things were beyond
the province of Government, and the Noble Lord had stated
most truly that it was impossible for the Government to feed
a whole nation. He would take upon himself to say that no
people could be directed in the application of their industrial
powers by any Government. All that Governments could do
was to protect life and property to give the means, and
make easy and certain the transmission of property—to make
secure the titles to property, and thus subsidiarlv to protect
lie and property, and to raise the condition of the people by
education. No Government in the world ever went beyond those
bounds without doing mischief, and never was so striking an
instance given of the mischievous results consequent upon
over-stepping those bounds than had beers given in the history
of the last four months. A return had been laid upon the
table of the House this morning containing the correspondence
of the Board of Works. Although ho had not been able to go
througk the whole of it, still from whatlittle he had seen he must
say that such an exhibition he never witnessed as the waste-
ful expenditure which that book disclosed. He did not soy
intentional waste on the part of the Government, but in spite
of all their best endeavours to prevent it, they were totally
incapacitated properly to distribute money. The moment they
set themselves np as the buyers of labour—labour directly left
its accustomed and legitimate sources to flow into their channel.
—(Hear. hear.) The Irish people left profitable employment
in the north of 'England, and even Liverpool. They struck
by thousands, and said that they were going to Ireland to take
the Queen's money. All agricultural labour was suspended,
and the consequence, starvation in its most aggravated forms
was made apparent for the ensuing year. What was it that
had done this ? Should not the Government take
warning by this example ? It had overstepped its proper
limits, and had taken upon itself to be the provider
of food and labour for the whole people, and the at-
tempt had proved an utter failure. What had it done ? It
had demoralised the whole nation. It had taught the people
this great, dangerous, and mischievous lesson—that it they
could only make it appear to the Government that the distress
was general, there was then no necessity for their doing any-
thing for themselves. He wished the Government to under-
stand that it had to legislate for England as well es for Ireland.
Ought they not to look to the comforts of their own labouring
population ? Ought they not to look and carefully guard
against that moral pestileoce which, like a mighty tide, would
roll its waves front the shores of that unhappy country to this?
If such conduct were to be pursued towards Ireland as had re-
cently been pursued. was there not a danger of the English
labourer becoming discontented, and asking the unanswerable
question, why he should be oppressed with toil and bowed
down to the earth by its continuous weight when he saw the
Irish pauper fed with his money, they themselves doing nothing
to lighten their burdens or to ameliorate their own distresses?
Were they, he would ask, to see this moral pestilence per-
vading the land, and he unwilling, or hesitating, or afraid, to
put it down? He would not be terrified to do so ; and in the
name of
.his own poor countrymen, he protested against the
proceeding of the Noble Lord. He protested against the
Government providing constant employment to the Irish. He
protested against the hard won earnings of the English people
being applied to the drainage of Irish waste lands. He lastly
protested against the inefficient poor-law, proposed to be es-
tablished. He wanted to know slid that Bill give to the
people of Ireland a legal and necessary relief ? If not, then,
they had no poorelaw. If it gave them a right to legal and
necessary relief, then it must give a right to relief
in some place. And if it gave them that right there must be
also Fe law of settlement and of removal, and there must be
mac'Finery to carry it into effect.—( Hear, hear.) There was
no such thing, however, and he predicted that if they attempted
tog on as an Hon. Gentleman said to-night by such bit by
bit I Feislation, they would never establish any permanent im-
pno anent in the condition of Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) A
wit, statesman would take advantage of the present emergency,
and .ny effectual mode by which the recurrence of it would be
pre ent ed, would be to fix upon the land of Ireland the support
th• boor.—(Hear, hear.) He protested, therefore,
ea es the poor-law of the Noble Lord. What then
were they to do ? Let then introduce the English
poor-law. If it was good for England it should be equally
good for Ireland, and would, he had no doubt, be effective in
preventing the destitution which so widely prevailed in that
country. In addition to this, he would also like to see a
searching reform into the whole property law of Ireland, mak-
ing the transmission of it easy, and better securing the title.
There must be no tenderness evinced in this respect, for ten-
derness to the landlords would be cruelty to the people.—
( Hear, hear.) In referring to the condition of Ireland, he
did not wish to detract from the share which England, by her
bad legislation, had contributed, to produce such a state of
things. The injustice of England was now recoiling upon herself.
He acknowledged it. He deprecated, however, the attempts
which were being made to repeal the union between the two
countries, for he believed that would be the greatest evil which
Ireland yet suffered from. There was not a single benefit
which the people of that country had a right to that he did
not support. He believed they bad long been a misgoverned
people, but in no case did they suffer so much as in respect to
religion, and he thought that, irrespective of this considera' ion,
it would be wholly and entirely hopeless to regenerate the
Irish character. If they left the Irish Church Establishment
Tema nieg there could be no hope for Ireland. They were
trying to reconstruct the character of the Irish people,
but, so long as the House left that mischief
existing as it was then their efforts would Le utterly and en-
tirely hopeless.—( Hear, hear.) He had no antipathy—he
had no fear of Catholics as opposed to Protestants—he looked
upon both with the same eye, and he could not help remarking
that if they left the Irish priesthood in the condition they then
were, the unhappy state of things which he had been describ-
ing would continue to prevail. That was a subject which at
present occupied wens' minds much, and was one on which
few were disposed to express what they really felt. He
thought it his duty, however, to declare what no one seemed
disposed to avow, that as long as the Irish priest-
hood were left in the position in which they
then were, se, long would they find it their interest
to perpetuate the unhappy state of things which existed. He
did not want the Government tot nme forward and propose a
State endowment, for the Government which attempted to
make a State provision for them, would not, he believed, stand
for 24 hours after.--( Hear, hear.) But if they did away with
the law of mortmain, and enabled priests to acquire land by
gift or otherwise, to the amount of 31)0/. a year, such a mea-
sure would tend to the pacification and improvement of Ireland
more than any other yet proposed. There was only one
other means to attain that object—namely, by a repeal of the
union, and by allowing each municipality under the federal con-
stitution which would then exist, to pay any priesthood it pleased.
But any attempt to pay the Catholic priesthood out of the im-
peei.l treasury would, in the present circumstances of this
country, be accompanied by the destruction of that Ministry
who made such a proposal. When they did this, they should
provide as far as possible for the education of the Irish people.
Arid for this purpose they had funds in their own hands,
namely, the surplus revenue of the Irish Church Establishment,
after suitab'y providing for its wants. He deprecated any pro-
vision from the imperial treasury for this purpose. Nothing
could be worse than this dependence on Government support.
One Gentleman asked the Government to carry on public
woiks ; another, fisheries ; another, to purchase seed corn ; an-
other, to promote drainage ; and another, to make railroads.
Government was to do everything. The Hon. Member for
Limerick said that they should provide food for the people of
Ireland, and of all places in the world, that they should go for it
to the Faulkland Islands—(Laughter)—barren islands, from
which no produce could be brought. He wanted to know what
Government was not expected to do ? He supposed they were
to feed, to clothe, and to shave every gentleman.—(Laughter )
It might not appear a matter for jesting, but he never heard
anything so lamentable as that such a demand should come
from a nation whose soil and climate were as good as theirs—
so intellectual and populous a nation—their equals, and
he never denied that they were so, in intellectual
and physical capacity.—(Hear, hear.) There was one
great difference, however, between the two nations, and that
difference consisted in moral conraee,—( Hear, hear.) This
was the quality which enabled the English people to sustain
circumstances, and
themselves under the pressure of opposing
gave them an inherent power to struggle successfully with
oifficulties which might obstruct them ; and he did not hesitate all
to say that if the Irish people once acquired this virtue of self-
reliance they might soon hope to be running in the same race
of prosperity, to see the evils by which they
were at present
surrounded completely removed, and the greatness and power of
their country permanently e. tablished.—(Cheers.)
Premier)
etiin time Lord BERNARD deprecated then discussing the causes
whichpre a f.eace
rmei led tithe unfortunate state of things which prevailed
to fad) t
owfhethne, atcheiorrtedeinogthtoeetohteory Noblewes operating
Loerdrate
(theig
on a o •
p ()illation of the nineteenth. While they
were discussing on theses
passing
he
points it should not be for-
gotten that thousands we re
away from time to eternity.
He read various letterswhich
they should b(
that the Government had not established depots had received from the part of
the country with which he wa
resu'ltedishe
at
the
ewhi
consequencesc they h a dtt.
hpromisedsot Ithst eoee dpe,
ohaaocontewhds
particularlydd
of Ireland. Then, again, at the
there wax a general and disgraceful combination
period of the famine
combination amongst the
corn merchants to raise the price of corn. He read voluminous
documents to show howgeneral pe 3'
asene dtaatohintnlb)i
and how in' • this injurious
combination had been to large
m
people. One letter from a conmumibgullers. of metering
et in Cork
he particularly referred to, illustrative
of the class
of traders whom the Government seemed disposed
to favour,
And reluctant to interfere with. He had no hesitation
saying that the means which the Government adopted inthme
autumn fell far short, and were consequently most ina-
dequate to meet the emereency, because, from the accounts
which they were in the habit ef receiving they must have shown
the full extent of the calamity which they would he called upon
to meet. The Labour-rate Act, which was passed at the end
of last session. had done much to injure the country, as farmers
and their labourers forsook their legitimate labour for the
purpose of labouring on the roads. Then the proceedings at
the sessions were often conducted in clamour, and unfairly,
and works were devised which were of little, and
often of no adv image, to the country. ( Hear.)
they had been told by Hon. Members on the other side of the
House that the calamity was not a national one, and that it was
one which it was the duty of resident landowners to have
met, without. aid from the c.dovernment ; but in his opinion, if
ever there was a national calamity, that which had afflicted Ire-
land was certainly one which came within that category.
Ireland had contributed her fair share to the aggregate taxes

and to discharge the burdens of the three countries, and had a
right, when so visited, to relief out of the coffers of the nation. I
In dealing; pith the Indian rev-0 ,e. upwards of twenty
s ars ago, Str Rou,. rt 1),,r1 spr ke Of. ,11"
Ttdiat
possessions as having a right, in the ca-,e o an
insufficient revenue to meet the expenditure, t, ee c,om
horns. The lion. Gentleman the Member ','r f3c=h t Mr.
Roebuck) had attacked the Irish iandlords, but !,c, tli-ty,ht
he
was justified in saying that the Irish landlords, dur;ng the
present calamity, had done all in their power to alleviate the
distresses of their country. lie had already stated his opinion
that the poor-law of both countries ought to be assimilated, and
he was still strongly of that opinion ; but he warned the Govern-
ment, that at such a time, they would find it utterly impossible
to raise rates necessary for the support of more workhouses.
He believed that the surest way to benefit Ireland was by the
application of capital in the development of her resources.
They would thus teach Ireland to make use of the advantages
which lay around her, and then he trusted that a happier day
awaited her.
Sir R. H. INGLIS said that, notwithstanding his great
respect for the Noble Lord, he could not but observe that, in
the beginning of his speech, he had endeavoured to revive doc-
trines which he ( Sir R. Inglis) considered to have been long
ago exploded. The Noble Lord began his speech by saying
that in the city of Cork there had been a combination
amongst the sellers of c:nm, by which the price of corn had been
raised in the market. Now, it should be remembered that the
city of Cork contained 100,000 inhabitants; and, admitting the
fact, which he was by no means willing to do, that there had
been such a combination, were there not such cities as Water-
ford, Dublin, and Bristol? And could any man seriously be-
lieve that, supposing there were ten ships engaged in the com-
bination, some one of the number would not—to use a vul.
garism—strip over—( Hear, hear)—and the rival dealers
from those towns would soon put an end to the pressure in
the market. He rose immediately after the lion. and Learned
Member for Bath, because he had, in his first sentence, stated
that he rose as an English Member, recognizing the principle
that the question before them should not be treated as one of
local, but of national importance. Availing himself, there-
fore, of the privilege of being an English Member, he wished
to take the earliest opportunity t o object to a large portion of
his speech. Indeed he should have thought, that in the pro-
posed measures there would have been ample food for legisla-
tion to the most voracious appetite. But not content with
the three Bills upon the table, the Learned Member, with inex-
haustible ingenuity, had contrived to bring in: ery other
vexata questio.—( Hear, hear.) For the special accommoda-
tion of one Hon. Member, he proposed to revive the appro-
priation clause ; and for the accommodation of other Hon.
Members he proposed several other additions to the policy of
the Government. The Hon. and Gallant Member who spoke
from the bench behind him (Sir R. Inglis), also surprised him
very much, in not referring to the comprehensive policy
of the Noble Lord, and by viewing it as a bit-by-bit policy. if
ever there was so large a measure proposed for the regeneration
of a great nation, he had read history but to little purpose;
for whether it was right or wrong, he looked upon it as most
comprehensive. His immediate object in rising was to bring
back the consideration of the House from extraneous subjects
to the real question, namely, the miserable condition of the
great bulk of their fellow-subjects. At that moment the
eyes of the empire were concentrated upon the House with a
deep sympathy for the sufferings of their fellow creatures in
Ireland. And when the Member for Bath talked of express-
ing the indignation of the people of England at the measures
of her Majesty's Government, he, for one, hoped that he would
find himself mistaken, and that the English people would feel
nothing but an intense desire to promote the present benefits about
to be conferred upon the Irish people—he limited himself to
the present benefit—for both with respect to the cause and to
the re aedies, he did think it their first duty to consider in what
manner those evils might be relieved. He at the same time
quite concurred with much that had been stated with regard to a
great mass of their fellow. countrymen in Ireland—he meant
the landed proprietors—there might be still such
cha.acters as those which had seen so inimitably
depicted by the talented novellist, in " Castle Rack-rent."
But whether they do commit a series of faults, they have been
stricken by the hand of God. and it became them to give their
readiest, their most cheerful, and their most active sympathy.
And how had the calamity been borne by these poor people?
He did not recant any praise which he had bestowed upon the
people of Scotland, but the debate was on Ireland
exclusively, and he did not in the least exaggerate when
he said that they bore their sufferings with
unexampled patience. He desired to draw the attentions of th.
House to certain reports made by the agent of a must benevo-
lent religious body—the Society of Friends, who had deputed
certain members of their body to visit Ireland with the
warmest and the most intelligent desire to promote their in-
terests. The statement which they give cf the actual distress
is one which it is not pleasant to read, but he desired permis
sion to draw attention to it, in order to show how well the
people had earned their warmest sympathies. The Hon.
Member then read several extracts. One was that the poor
starving creatures in the districts of Louth and Leitrim
were eping each ether alive by sharing their last morsel.
This was a general statement, but he could give hundreds of
individual cases. He could not refrain from one in particular.
The visitor entered a cabin of about four feet high, and about
nine feet square, on the side of a road, he found the inha-
bitants to consist of a widow and several children ; in
addition to the family, he saw an old superannuated
wo-
man, sitting in a corner, and rocking to and fro her
matted grey hair, which fell over her face, and added to her
squalid and wretched appearance. She was scarcely
clothed ; immediately behind her was her pallet of damp and
dirty straw, which she hardly ever left. It appeared that she
was no relative of the widow of the house, who allowed her to
stay there merely from a feeling of charity. Might they not say
of her as of the widow of old—" She gave more than they
The Right Hon. Baronet proceeded to read statements, exhi-
biting the lamentable state of distress in different parts of the
country. An Hon. Member had referred to the workhouse of
Castlelsar, exhibiting the utmost degree of destitution, but he
(Sir R. H. Inglis) knew of other circumstances equally
afflicting. One union was 2,0001. in debt, and notice was
given the other day that unless the rates were paid up the
guardians would be obliged to sell the house and turn the
wretched inmates out upon the world. He knew another
instance, where the inmates of the union were obliged to sleep
upon the straw, as they had nothing in the shape of bedding
The whole appearance of afFairs indicated great approaching
social change which would not only affect the peasantry,
but the landlords also, and could it be wondered that such a
change should take place when the rents of that unhappy
country had so greatly increased without any corresponding in
crease in the value of the soil. Ile thought that some means
should be adopted to induce Irish absentees to return to the
localities, which would be much benefited by their pre-
sence, and although a direct tax might not be expedient, still a
virtual impost by an efficient poor-law might have the effect of
inducing them to remedy the evils which were so created
in a material degree by their lengthened residences in other
countries.

Colonel CONNOLLY said, that while thanking the Noble
Lord for the wise and benefieent measures to Ireland, and
with respect to the particular measures before the House, he
thought that net above two or tht es objections could be urged
against them. He considered, however, that these
might be advantageously met in committee. They
might, for instance, limit the facilities which the
measure gave for the exertion of local patronage. But there
was another and a much greater objection. He regretted to
find that many Hon. Members, and with them the Hon. Mem-
ber for Stroud, had one panacea for the ills of Ireland—
namely, the opening of the poor-law to its fullest extent.
Every workhouse except the workhouse of Castlebar, had been
made to contain as many paupers as they could possibly hold;
and he was persuaded the evils of the system would be
much increased if they extended relief to the able-bodied
labourers who might seek it uneler the arrangements proposed
by the Noble Lord at the head of the Government. tie con-
sidered the present poor-law sufficient for all the purpo3es
required. lie was bound to say that it had worked admirably
well since it was introduced, wherever it had been
properly carried into effect. In his part of the
country, near to Dublin, this had been the case,
though it might not have worked so well in the remote parts
as was desirable. He confessed he looked with apprehension
on the extraordinary rates that would be required, if they ex-
tended, in the manner proposed. the plan of relieving the able-
bodied lebourers in the workhouse. The proposition of the
Noble Lord was one he was desirous of treating with great
leniency, still, he (Colonel Connolly) could not avoid pointing
out the difficulty that would arise from the plan
under the consideration of the House. With respect to
the Castlebar proceedings, which had been referred to, he had
been informed by Lord Lucan, that the reason why a rate had
been objected to there, was the fact that '2,000/ of an old rate
remained uncollected, and it was considered that that should
be got in before a new rate was levied. Neither was Ise satis-
fied with the Government proposition for the cultivation and
improvement of the lands, and thought it would not operate so
beneficial y as was believed. There was another point to
which he wished tc refer: '• was the proposal to
advance 50,000/ ,sr tne eurchase of seed for
the land. consideree *hit was too little, and hoped the
Government would extend the loan. Some apprehension was
expressed that many of the Irish estates were so encumbered
with debts and mortgages
that they would not be able to re-
deem the advances. and that the property would pass out of
their hands. However much he might regret that, he did net
doubt bet that in many instances it would be attended with
goad results. He knew of two estates in the county in which
he resided, which had changed hands with the best effects.
While in possession of the previous proprietors, there was no-
thing but misery and litigation. Two-thirds of the cases
brought before the county magistrates were from these estates ;
but since they had passed into the hands of the Marquis of
Clonmel and Mr. Barron, there had been a vast change for the
better. A more r..pid transition in the condition of a body of
people he had never known.
Mr. HUME—The Hon. and Gallant Member who had last
spoken said that he trusted her Majesty's Ministers would not
allow the able-bodied men of Ireland to become a burden upon
the land. Did the Hon. and Gallant. Member mean that they
should become a burden upon the people of England?—( Laugh-
ter and cheers.) Some Irish Members entertained proper opi-
nions and principles on this subject, for they avowed that Ire-
land should support its own eons., and so raise themselves in the
scale of society and national independence.—( Hear, hear. )
What appeared to him (Mr. Hume) the most singular feature
in the case, was that the Hon. Members expressed their grati-
tude to her Majesty's Ministers because they gave them money.
___("Hear, hear," from Colonel Connolly.) "Hear, hear," said
the lion. Member. Why, because the Government gave money
to the landlords of Ireland. If that was the opinion of one so
eminent, and so distinguished, and so well known, as the Hon.
Member, it was time to ask the Ministry if they were not enter-
ing upon a wrong course ; it was time to ask the Govern-
ment not to give money to the landlords of Ireland.
He affirmed that England and Scotland would be dragged
down in this futile attempt to remedy the miseries of Ireland.
If they were to be burdened with the poor of Ireland, and at
the same time to supply the landlords of Ireland with money,
he could see Bo end to the evil. It did appear to him from
certain statements made by the Noble Lord that he was dis-
posed to take a proper view of the remedies fitted
(Mr. Hume) had taken it upon him-
selffor that country. There were indeed some omis-
sions, and he
onust
of them. While they
palliating these distresses, he
a few of
were trying means
calculated to afford a hope of any radi-
caldid not see one measured c?.change.
It was, therefore, a mat-
ter improvement or ra i
importance to the House to have be-
fore of the most serious
to point
which were to guide Ministers in these
it the principles
matters, and he (Mr. Hume) thought that before they agreed
to grant one shilling they ought to have a distinct statement
of the course which the Ministry intended to pursue. When
purpose of re
the House heard nothing advanced for the
(Laughter)—helieving
could
Ireland but money—money—money
tell the Minietty that their treas—
ury would very soon
be empty.—(Hear, hear.)eight millions of
Seven or
money were to be expended,
and he believed that if no reme-
dial measures were introduced they would require to spend
upon it that
three times that amount. They might depend
cement ; and
the best time to meet an evil was at the commen
the
balance in an Exchequer
it was better to do so by
other means than by
spendingwhich was left fall by their prede-
cessors. If a want of employment was felt in this country
and in Scotland, with a decrease of exports, and a diminution
of wages, he should like to know how at that time they would
be enabled to 'procure ten or eleven millions of money by
way of loan. Why, it would shake the credit of the whole
it
merely
country. He thought that some permanent, and not
Let
temporary measures ought to be adopted in this crisis.
them look to the degraded state of Ireland, the system of land
tenure prevalent there, the state of the landed proprietors and
the degraded state of the people altogether, and he would defy
1 1 He
them to produce another country so truly wretch
acknowledged that a great part of this arose from the manner

in which that country was treated by England; but even if
that were the case, no one would deny that a remedy
could be found. And before they trled to find tho re-
eled), it might be well to ask what it was
that brought Ireland into the state in which
she was. at prevent—what but the unequal lots, the unjust
ripples:ors!, and the continued strife which existed between the
be
rlito,hiefsa.re3bt;'o) :ma
rsct,tiA,
hloiorr:nn
:eeuatiotalleolittii
etiinri:thde,ytewaeeror,rervgtunf,g,ei
e,erert:irnst3geie,ret-hnyllvfmetoc:t:einTapis;rrecteeno:y:fi
neiweoa,td:;fos Ireland.
ago,
brat
sate
the
onne the 112. thhi Hume)
s2u lrye,coonl lee chtaeldf
ut
1,. di:
elaneeegetrsi against i nfliouotsnyrhtgi
spnatergnhi:::f,
teadohnnettelitgd: eear
irbcat
phyral
eari
degradation
ifpoou,
ertahbeoor
dye.:
tithes;
he was told thahstoe.
that
held seven-eighths of the land, that they were contented with
Protestant Gentlemen of Ireland
things as they Caere, and that they could not therefore fall into
his (Mr. Hume's) veiws. *He was assured that Ireland co'ild
never rise in the scale of nations until they removed the mon-
strous inequality that had arisen from their penal laws. They
ought to remove that dormant Church—they ought to give
satisfaction to the people of Ireland—thev ought to extend the
same civil rights to Ireland that England had, and then they
ought to tax every Irishman equally with every Englishman in
this country. Ile knew that these opinions were not perhaps
palatable or satisfactory to Irish gentlemen ; but he knew also
that it was not satisfactory for Englishmen to provide for the
pauperism of the sister country. A passage had been quoted
from Fletcher, of Saltoun, to show the deplorable condition
of Scotland at an earlier period. But Scotland had now risen
in the scale of nations, and why should Ireland not rise in the
same manner? But it appeared that Irish gentlemen in this
and the other House were banded together for no other pur-
pose than to get as much money out of the country as possi-
ble.—(Cries of "Oh! oh !") Why, let them read the resolu-
tion—that was the tenor of it, and it was, therefore, for her
Majesty's 'Ministers to consider whether at the end of next year
Ireland would not be in a worse condition than it was now.
They should next year require eleven millions of money, and
he should like to know where it was tl be got from. Let them
give the people of Ireland equal laws—let them protect capital,
and employment to the people would very soon follow.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he
had, during the whole course of this debate, in vain listened
for some suggestions or some indication by which they might
guide the course which her Majesty's Government had in-
tended to pursue, and for some valid objection to the measures
of the plan which his Noble Friend intended to pursue. He
had heard, it was true, several objections from his Hon. Friend
the Member for Wycombe (Mr. Osborne), and had heard
much of the evils of a dominant Church, and the mischief
of advancing capital to Ireland, but not one. single objection to
the object which his Friend had in viiii,sealthough he had
listened with the greatest attention. liiehonld be recollected
that the chief object of his Noble Friebd ;was to provide for
the necessities of the people under the awful calamity which
had heathen Ireland, and for which, under the circum-
stances, it was so difficult to provide. He had hoped
for some intimation, for some suggestion by whichsshe Ministry
might the better steer their course. But it was in vain, yet he
could not but congratulate the House on the feeling which had
been exhibited on all sides. He felt this question to be a most
important question ; one the importance of which could not be
exaggerated, and which had engaged the most anxious attention
of her Majesty's Government, and they were earnestly desirous of
taking that course under the circnmstanees, and God knows
the circumstances are sufficiently difficult, and such as were suf-
ficient to embarrass any set of men. Many objections had been
made to the course which the Government had pursued, and
accusations had been brought against them, and one Hon. Member
had criticised in his speech the proceedings under the Act of
the last session for the employment of the poor. The House
would recollect that the Act passed during that session was
for the purpose of employing the poor during the spring and
summer months in consequence of the failure of the potatoe
crop. That Act went on what was called the half and half
system—that is, that oneehalt of the money was to be advanced
by Government, on condition that the other half should be
contributed by the resident gentry of Ireland, and it was
expected that this outlay would bring out the expenditure of
a much larger amount of capital. And did the Hon. Member
know, that since the lst of September, that the !UM of 290,0001.
had been advanced for that purpose. It was well known that
the expenditure hail been used in the payment of wages, and
that it had had the effect of raising the price of labour
in the labour market.—(Hear.) In Scotland and England
there had been a deficient harvest as well as in Ireland, but for
those te o countries no onday whatever had been made.
—( Bear, hear.) The public works on which this money
had been spent had only been
stopped until a presentment
had been made from the farmers to the effect, that the exer-
tions of the labouiers were necessary to gather the harvest.
The I-lon. Gentleman now told them that this measure of last
session was a baseless, ill-considered measure, and that it had
the effect of charging real property with the support of the poor
in Ireland, and he thought that this observation was worthy of
i
consideration. It was arranged by the terms of that Act
that presentments should be made, and that then the (so-
and
that
veinrnent should advance one-half of the money,
the sums advanced should he charged partly on the funds ga-
thered for the maintenance of the poor, and partly on the
funds of the county session. The failure of the potatoe crop
had put a stop for a while to the public works,
but he was sorry to say for the sake of the Irish
landlords, that when it was discovered that the contributions
were to be made, two more presentments were made, and
those which had been Made were withdrawn. For sake of the
absentee landlords he was bound to remark, that one absentee
landlord, Colonel Wyndham, had advanced rations to ten thou-
sand poor people daily. He was unwilling to charge the Irish
landlords with negligence, except to the event that bethought
they ought to have intents:Bed to prevent, or at least to
cheek the abuses which had been committed under the Act.
He did not wish to say anything without authority, and there-
fore he would take the liberty of drawing the attention of the
House to a report which had been received from the Board of
Works. In that report the duties of the relief committees
were clearly defined, and a contrast was drawn between those
duties and the practice of the committees. One of the duties
was to ascertain and investigate distress from week to week,
while Government had to execute the works provided by the

Hon.trohetfse agriculturel
pd e 0 p a
"eesat.c . .
presentment session, and pay the labourers employed upon
these works. In practice, however, the sessions presented
works without previous local inquiry, the relief com-
mittees exercised little or no discretion in the
performance of its duties, and hence the system
had proved defective. It might have been difficult for the re-
sident gentry to perform the duties of relief committees, but
he asked any gentleman whether he thought that those duties
.hould be performed by an officer of engineers, whose province
it was to superintend the execution of public works, or by the
resident gentry 7 (Hear, hear.) It was true that there was
not the same parochial machinery in Ireland as in this country,
but when the local gentry said it was not their fault, but pro-
nounced it to be altogether the fault of the Board of Works audits
officers that the system had failed,they attempted to throw upon
meonsrpoesapetr a
I.lm p 0
that board a stigma which they did not deserve. Nevertheless he
thought the effect of the system had been good. No doubt it
had occasioned a good deal of expense, but when they consi-
dered that half a million of persons had to be paid, and their
labours suspended, how could it have been otherwise. When
he told the House too, by the aid of one officer in the county
of Clare, 3,000 persons were taken off the works because they
had been improperly placed upon them by the Relief Com-
mittees, and reminded them that these duties had to be per-
formed by the officers of the Board of Works in addition to
their proper functions, he did not think it was quite
fair to throw blame upon them for the non-execu-
tion of duties which did not belong to them. Still
the effect of their efforts had tended to alleviate and prevent
distress. An enormous amount of relief had been afforded to
the people, and thousands had been prevented from dying of
starvation, and although they might regret that the money
had not been so well spent as they could have wished, they
could not but be gra ified that so much suffering had been
averted. It had been reported to Government that in some
instances it would be better to give food than work, because
there were some poor and destitute persons who were altogether
from age and from other causes unable to work ; and
in order to prevent such poor creatures from ac-
tually dying from starvation, it. Was proposed to
give them food without allotting them work. He
wished to make a remark or two before he sat down in re-
ference to an observation which had fallen from a Noble
Lord who had taken part in the debate, with regard
to the supply of food to the people. But first, he must give
the House some idea of the distress which prevailed, and for thehe
purpose of doing so he would bring under the notice of t .
House another report which had been made by the Beard in
Work'. From that renort it would be seen that
tim
the district of Kilmow, where the total number f
destitution. He had said that the system of relief
yhapd de-
works was 7,8 e 0, of that number 7,000 were in
ba :itautehloief
works had broken down, and they (the Government)
the local committee to distribute to a large extent cooked
corn-
throughout the country. There were many of those It t
trhe reporte
termined to distribute food in different districts, arid tkoeednfaobolde
mittees in actual operation at present;
they received, he was happy to be able to satant
heir officials
from the reports which had been received from t
eed with
and other sources, that their efforts had been attend ,
ne out
most beneficial results. It had been said that the cearreyeits
ff than
of this system had been more advantageous its i"
idpaaniosr nf lita:et::tit' works
were being tette by potatoes b the suste-
any other. It had enabled the labouring classes
tr ynd it would
stance afforded them to go to the public weres,
1 aThere had
also enable them to cultivate the 0_
s ft grain in Ireland.
de
tforotmhe House, that
been great exaggeration about the sowing
owere spring crops,
A large number of the crops in that
.countryithat immediate relief
and it was therefore the more essential
those who were engaged
should be afforded the people to enaeb
not think therefor teats it
fwor
Wdigan. ,
grown on their own
Dere were two great
There was the distress,
reii‘geinbr it_the
eetel to
nw? ed .
e thatt
o bti
enoe ot ghmeeen elarar a-
proposedoney
important change taking place• in the social
on
lnelleaolpfunerone
ptandAil
esea that
aeof rner gedti us
geoheet uheeinp, nttotwtthtruhrooeyp,ir,i ;all
nrodndnil '
,oaosbwpaafltonnhp' tti(tila'tii:rehtise.lietetrphhi foodoeet:rl:lg Inewsiao‘
believeddff
of
the
e establishmentG
Government
rnment
xti.h"eir sustenance from that lion
systemof the
of
Ireland were rnaintadt
depended
mu
eotn food r.amiseedaseunrteir,bu,eerlyele4yiethtehmeisrelted,.
po cted that so large a portion ,f
ht retain •t •• - • ur-
but
the
people
ofto bridge-t ove'r the transition state of
at as
Ireland were to buy
aoste lands, the object
exceedingly Around,e
event while
s e d
h, theyeasn and
pd
it.wp oedsre ie:
was g
nott h e e
derive
greater blessing than th
ythey might
tthat
at hitherto.
there
clofuti the
whoml
eases it wouldi
stance,
the
t_eneficial, although he was
peopleoi if e detail,stml i thought
of
theredlerael mustlearns df
rwboeomus Peelle
dx
for the Stategh the lresent in
measure 'desirable.
With reference
subject of
for the reclamation 0
different from what it had been - of
the
measure was very
At all events, the
of land in the represented,
there were large tractspossession
r papnl
le,
, i nh
eo ertnthl oeotrubsgachf ate
the
these tracts of mere
nominal owners, and it was r which the Government
proposed to reclaim. Tee measure eh for the promotion of the
net so sanguine upon the success of hat measure as some others
were. The sale of estates was also calculated to do much
good in the country.
Ireland was one requiring the most prompt
fisheries he thought would also
and
earnest attention on the Part of the Government.
It behoved them to come forward with assistance to a greater
extent, and he was sure the country would not be unwillin
respond to the requirement. He hoped that next gto
harvest
would be more abundant, but he feared that there Iv
great amount of suffering before that period arrived. In
ould
bea
ad-
dition, however, to the assistance which might be extended
the people from this country, a great duty was also imp d to
Irish gentlemen; and without their co-operation the Governmentosedon
necessary
could not hope to meet the emergency. It was
the food should be distributed through resident that
was necessary that those best acquainted with the agency,n and it
extent of the distribution should administer to its ature and
relief. If he
could impress upon them his own feelings with
calamity, he was sure that from private andpublicregard to the
they would be able to grapple with the distress, resources
alleviate the sufferings of the people.— and greatly
(Cheers.)
On the motion of an Hoar. MEMBER, the debate was then
adjourned.
Lord J. RUSSELL hoped the House would allow the
debate to take precedence to-morrow.
CHELSEA PENSIONERS BILL.
This Bill went through Committee.
BUCK WHEAT, &c., IMPORTATION BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and
passed.
The other orders of the day
having
been disposed of, the
House adjourned at a Quarter past Twelve o'clock.

DESTRUCTION OF EASTON
LODGE.
(From the Essex .Herold of this day.)
Another of the proud and noble marisions of England has
f•Illen by fire—Easton Lodge, the residence of Lord Vi.iconat
Maynard, which possessed a peculiar interest in this part of
the kingdom, not only from its presenting a noble pile in
the Elizabethan style of architecture, modified by the taste
and the luxury of the present day, but as forming the
" stately home" of the lord-lieutenant of Essex, the highest
official representative of the Sovereign in the county. It is
now a heap of black ruins, beneath which lies buried much
costly and valuable property.
This calamity, which has laid the main body of the fine
old house in ruins, occurred at an early hour on Sunday
morning, and the first signs of the fearful destruction that
followed appear to have been discovered by his Lordship
himself. It seems that at three o'clock in the morning,
while the Noble Viscount and Lady Maynard were in bed,
their attention was attracted to a strange crackling noise
in some of the other apartments ; and the first thought
that suggested itself being that thieves were endeavouring
to effect an entrance, his Lordship rose and proceeded to his
dressing-room. There he found an enemy far more formid-
able than human robbers. The whole apartment was
illed with a dense smoke, and the flames were already curl-
ing up the walls of one side of the room, though the imme-
diate cause of the ignition did not appear, and it seems from
all the accounts that have reached us that even up to this
time it remains unknown. His Lordship, with great promp-
titude and presence of mind, endeavoured in the first instance
so to apply the carpet as to smother the flames; and all the
household being aroused, the servants set vigorously to work
with buckets of water to endeavour to check the first progress
of the destroyer. This it was soon found was vain. The
older part of the mansion was built chiefly with timber, and
the flames taking a stronger and deeper hold of the ponder-
ous beams of the ancient architect, defied all the efforts of
the family to arrest them in their early stage. It was then
resolved to summon the aid of the neighbourhood by means
of the alarm bell, when it was found in this they were foiled.
The rope of the bell had become entangled, and thus rendered
useless; but the situation of the mansion was soon after an-
nounced to the inhabitants of the district by the red glare
that illumined the sky.
When it was seen that all the efforts of the parties imme-
diately around the mansion were vain, and that the small
engine b Aonging to the lodge was useless to stay the
flames, Mr. Griggs, his Lordship's butler, was dispatched on
horseback for the large engine at the police-station at Dun-
mow, which was instantly got out by the force, well manned,
and promptly on its way to the scene of conflagration, fol-
lowed by the two smaller ones from the same place. Hun-
dreds, too, began to flock in from the surrounding country,
farmers, tradesmen, and labourers, all evincing deep regret
at the prospect of destruction, and all anxious to put forth
every effort to save the house and property. Another engine
shortly arrived from Thaxted, and every exertion was made
to get the engines into play. But in the mean time the
flames had made fearful progress. They were ascending and
bursting through the roof; and at the same time descending to
the hall, the drawing and dining-rooms, and ruthlessly con-
suming those elegantly fitted-up apartments, with their
costly contents. The whole middle portion of the mansion
was one entire blaze, and the south front presented a scene of
destruction terrifically grand. Anticipating this, many per-
sons who had reached the spot early had directed their efforts
to the saving of the books, pictures, and other valuable
articles in the library and billiard-room, in which they hap-
pily succeeded, so that the valuable paintings, with few ex-
ceptions, were saved and placed in the granary, and a large
quantity of plate and costly furniture stowed in the coach-
houses and other buildings, about twenty horses having been
turned into the park in order to make room and preserve
them from danger.
While the work of devastation was going on the Noble
Viscount was busy directing with great calmness and fore-
thought the efforts of the firemen and assistants, and Lady
Maynard and the llon. Miss Maynard, notwithstanding the
cold blast of a wintry morning, maintained their place upon
the lawn, watching the destruction of their princely home,
and somewhat consoled, we doubt not, by witnessing the
strenuous efforts made and the deep feeling which the cala-
mity excited in the multitude, hundreds of whom had so
often had their wants relieved and their sorrows cared for at
the Lodge. At daylight a heavy rain drove the fair sufferers
to take refuge in. some apartments of the building, distant
from the scene of desolation which then presented itself; for
in spite of the continued play of the engines, and in defiance
of all human effort, room after room of the main or centre

part, the most ancient of the whole, was consumed ; roof
after roof fell in, and the whole was a mass of blackened
ruin. At a quarter before five the handsome old turret clock
caught fire, the hands stopped, and enshrouded in a sheet of
flame, the whole fell into the burning mass below. Of this
portion of the building nothing was left except the curious
and antiquated brick cimneys.
About six o'clock all efforts were directed to cutting off the
communication over the billiard-room, and thm saving the
part. not then ignii ed. By the incessant labour of a strong
body of persons this was effected, by a large stream of water
being poured by the engines upon the burning rafters of the
ceiltre rooms, and wet blankets placed to deaden the effect-
of the flames. This, with the left wing of the building, is
the only part left standing.

UNITED STATES POST-OFFICE.
The report of the United States Post-office department re-
cently presented to the President, is this year of more than
usual interest, as it gives the experience of the first twelve
months of the new system (based on the plans of Howland
adopted on the Ist of July, 1545. It appears that the
annual average income for the ten years preceding the above
date was 4,364,624 dolls., while for the first year of the new
law it was 3,487,199 dolls., showing a diminution of 877,425
dolls., or about 20 per cent. The receipts for 1844-45 were,
however, less than the average above• mentioned, so that the
actual diminution of income under the alteration as compared
with the preceding year was only 802,624 dolls. "No incon-
siderable portion of this deficiency," it is alleged in the re-
port, " may be traced to other causes than a reduction in the
rates." The system, as adopted in America, does not embrace
a uniform, but a graduated rate (five cents under 200 miles,
and ten cents for a greater distance) and hence the temp-
tation still still exisis, as regards distant points, to send
letters by private expresses, " which still continue to
be run between principal cities with as much regularity as
the mails." It is also common to enclose more than one
letter under a single half-ounce cover, " and even packages
of letters, addressed to different individuals, are collected
together under a single cover and directed to some third per-
son for distribution, by which means 100 letters, weighing
eight ounces, are charged under 300 miles 80c., and over 300
miles 1 doll. 60c., when the department is entitled to receive,
under the law, 5 dolls. or 10 dolls., according to the dis-
tance." The immense mass of dead letters, averaging an-
nually between 1,500,000 and 2,000,000, besides an excessive
number of unclaimed newspapers, is also greatly complained
of; proposedalf-outonceli,nLitd the
single e
e
require that all newspapers should be pre-paid. An increase
on the rates of postage on newspapers to be regulatedtao th •
ccoredi:
ing to certain vexatious conditions, with referenca
letter
ttto o r remedytooaa these
quarterevilN insteadit is
of th
size and weight, is likewise recommended.
In the United States the Post-office has never been looked
to as a source of revenue. Thev a Ewe annual deficiency for
the 10 years preceding the new laNevrsas about 135,000 dolls.,
and under the alteration
ite has been 597,097 dolls., the
smallness of this latter
anticipated,deficiency, as compared with what
being attributable to the some-
what remarkable circumstance of the expenditure having
been reduced concurrently with the adoption of the new
measure, and despite the great increase of letters which
arose from it.
The reduction was effected in the letting of
might have been
the mail contracts; but it is acknowledged that the service of
the department has, in consequence, been occasionally greatly
impaired, the contracts having been taken in many instances
by persons of doubtful character and means, altogether
incapable of fulfilling their obligations. Another effect of
over-economy is also reported in the fact, that of the 14,793
post.offices in the United States, nearly one-third of the
post-masters have voluntarily vacated their appointments
ee receipts
universal
as
s enabling
gel
iinlitgt increasedttiihaet(Niveap sart
department
mtkhieennigrt
place,
ol work,
modeget
any
y person
of remuneration.
the
w
abdee in
impossible titei
since the passage of the new law. These officers were paid
by a per-centage, rand when the system was put in force
tor
o
slightest respectability to assume the office, the Attorney-
General alterationte,
construed
oncw:evtoderuvu' teed'hrda, ess
ittorlhon
the
in
crease the compensation to the same amount as that of the
year preceding the alteration, and thus succeeded partially
in arresting the resignations.

EXTENSIVE BANK ROBBERY IN

GLASGOW.
Yesterday afternoon (Friday) a clerk of one of the most
respectable houses in Glasgow was sent to do bank busi•
ness. lie repaired to the Union Bank, and drew a cheque
of 1,200/. Ile then proceeded to the Commercial Bank, in
the same street, with the money upon him. lie was writin,,
some order at the bank counter—after finishing which, he
put his hand into the pocket of his outside coat to draw out
Vie money, where he thought he had it snugly deposited
The 1,2001. was gone! It is more than probable that he
was reconnoitered by some expert English thief, several of
whom we learn, are now prowling about the city. Glas-
gow formerly was a rich field for them. But let every man
who goes to the bank have his eyes about him, and not trust
to his outside pocket. We have other particulars about this
robbery; but it is prudent to conceal these till we see what
the police does.
We hear that another bank robbery of 24,1. was commit-

ted yesterday. Citizens take care! Query—Should the
banks of Glasgow not arrange to pay their cheques in a dit-
ferent way—like the receiving houses in London?—Scotch
Reformers' Gazette.

MEAL RIOT AT 111Acpurr.—The greatest excite-
ment, prevails at all the shipping
in consequence of the enormous shipments of grain which
have been taking place for someTb weeks past, and the rapid
advance
has
isn
ripenthe
fi
front
enot of
sao y , Bla
formidablecduff , P rtna soebr,: or o l) .
last two months, have beenug '
tsohitihmelevnetssoelf, e.,qautantitaieesduslffiippteod aptrPevoeriti
as well as at Banff, for the
had arrived in cart.s,' unexampled, while the price of
18,. to 300. per boll ; oats to 40s. ;
atll:l'l,llaeideyy barley
placed at o highs
a' n
aqaulaidnti
strippedty o
of
fr, mheearl
one
ed of grain
her
sa:is which
to
per quarter. 'The other evening,
assemblede
barricade forof
railway
etime they succeeded.
sleepers across the
prevent her going to sea. A meeting of the magistrates was
called to consider the matter. The committee on behalf of
the_community have resolved to make various demands on
the magistrates, one of which, is, that they adopt all lawful
measures to prevent speculation in, and exportation of, grain
from the port; and also that the magistrates petition Par-
liament to put an entire stop to all monopoly and speculation
in food. Unless something is promptly done to pacify the
people, disturbances will ensue.—Edinburgh Weekly Registcr.
SOUTH PETHERTON.-011 Monday last, about six
in the evening, the inhabitants of this town were consider-
ably alarmed by a large number of men, principally agricul-
tural labourers, amounting to nearly two hundred, congre-
gating in the town, their assembling being, it was understood,
for the purpose of obtaining an increase of wages. After
passing through some of the streets, they stopped opposite
the house of Mr. Pottinger, and after some haranguing
Mr. Pottinger fired upon them, but whether the gun was
loaded with anything more than powder we cannot say.
This, however, had the effect of exasperating the mob, who
immediately commenced smashing the windows with stones,
which they followed up till nearly or quite every pane of
glass in the front of the house was broken. The noise and
alarm continued till about eleven o'clock, after which time
the men dispersed without doing further damage.—Somerset
County Gazette.
MILITARY COLONISATION OF NEW ZEALAND.—On
L Saturday a circular was forwarded to several out-pensioners
of Chelsea hospital stating that Government were ready to
, I grant a free passage to New Zealand to such of the pen-
sioners as chose to emigrate to that colony, together with
their wives and families, who are not more than forty-seven
[ Years of age, an outfit to be provided, and on their arrival in
the colony they will be given an acre of land and 2i. 6d. per
day for seven years, during which period they will be
military coloniststhe expiration of that timee will
, andreceive mai l
yg, riaan
thet ot' tenevent ac roe; , and
decease,be to f r free 1
,c,OO colonists
freen ist -thepaa passage
wifeto
England, should they wish to return.

THE LATE FATAL ACCIDENT ON

THE GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY.
ADJOURNED INQUEST.
SOUTBA.T.L, FHB. I.—This morning, according to the ar-
rangement made on Wednesday last, the coroner and jury
re-assembled at the'Red Lion Inn, Southall, to conclude their
inquiries as to the deaths of Henry Bishop and Henry Halt,
killed by the fall of a fragment from the broken tire of
the " up" express engine, while passing the four o'clock
" down" train, in which they were passengers, this day
week. The proceedings of the inquest were, it will be
remembered, adjourned, that the jury might be enabled to
visit the scene of the catastrophe by daylight, and that
the evidence of scientific men, free from the possible sus-
picion of bias, might be adduced as to the cause of the
accident.

After a very careful inspection of the carriage in which
the deceased met their deaths—of the fragments from the
broken tire of " The Queen's" driving-wheel, and of the
condition in which that engine was left by the accident, the
f Mowing evidence was adduced before the coroner and the
j ury :
John Fawcett, smith to the Great Western Railway Com-
peny at Swindon for the last three years, said, that it was
his duty to superintend the making of, and to examine all the
wheels and tires which had to be made by the company, and
to see the latter fastened on the former. His usual mode of
examining tires was this :—They were sent to him a little
under the size required, and after heating them he had them
placed on a stretching-block until they were of the size re-
quired. Such a process might weaken the tire a little, but if
the outside skin or the inside of the tire was unsound they
were generally able to see it by such means ; and he had
strict orders not to put a tire on if he saw the least flaw in it.
He did not remember the blocking of the tire which had
given way, but, as a general rule, much greater attention
was paid to the tires of driving-wheels than to those of
ordinary wheels. When a tire was found to be unsoundly
welded, it was generally welded anew. It appeared to him
that the broken tire of the Queen was welded before it came
to them, by having the two ends cut off at an angle and
brought together in the form of aV, and then a V-piece
welded into the vacant space. Though, when an accident of
the kind happened, the wheel was generally brought to him
to be repaired, he did not always know that the giving way
of the tire was the cause of the accident. If an old tire
broke the wheels were condemned, but not so if the tire was
a new one. He had had no experience in the making of
tires or wheels before he went to Swindon. It was his
opinion that the tire had broken at the weld—the unsound-
ness of it having escaped observation at the manufacturer's,
and afterwards by him. All the tires sent them were not
tested ; for some they received of the proper size, which it
would not do to stretch. He could not, therefore, swear
positively that it had been tested by " blocking," although
he believed it had. He must, however, have examined it
when red-hot, and must have seen any flaw had such been
visible at that time.
James Almond, the engine-driver of the Queen, and who
was examined at the previous sitting of the inquest, ex-
plained a misunderstanding as to his previous evidence, by
which it appeared as if he had denied that the Queen had
ever previously thrown a tire.
The ConexErt—When did she throw a tire then? Wit-
ness—l think it was about seven or eight months ago. No
one was injured by the occurrence, which happened when
they were travelling at a speed of about sixty miles an hour.
On that occasion the tire was thrown from the other driving-
wheel, and a new one was put en.the wheel at Swindon.
The tire which has caused the present accident was no doubt
examined at that time.

The CORONER=Suppose the tire from one of the carriage
wheels was broken, is that on the fellow-wheel taken off in
consequence? Witness—That depends on its being. worn
from long use. When the tire came off the fly-wheel of the
Queen before, that on the fellow driving-wheel was so little
worn as to make no difference between it and the new tire
by which the broken one was replaced.
The CORONER—How often have such accidents happened
to you lately? Witness—Three times with n the last eight
or nine months, and in each case it was the tire of the driv-
ing-wheel which gave way. Witness did not recollect such
an accident having ever occurred with the tire of a carriage
wheel. Witness attributed to the same cause, viz., bad
welding, the breaking of both the tires on the driving-
wheels of the Queen.
Mr. B. Cubitt, the engineer, stated that he had had expe-
rience in the construction of tires and their application to
wheels, and that he attributed the breaking,of the tire from
the driving-wheel of the Queen to an unsound welding. Tl:e
mode generally adopted in welding a tire was as follows:
The two ends of the tire having been cut off at an angle were
brought together in the shape of a V, and then a V-piece
ens welded into this V-space._ In Mr. Gooch's
:plan, as he
. .

had described it to him,the V-space LtB filled with three
V-pieces. He considered this much the best mode of effect-
ing a good weld, and it was the process generally adopted at
the Haigh Foundry: The other plan was more in use for

res which were all iron and not steeled. lie 'was now loco-
lotive engineer of the Great Northern Railway, but had

)een employed on the Brighton and Dover line. -The steeled
.fires of the latter company were welded in the way which he

had described, and he had them from the same Place as the
Great Western Railway Company. The steel tires of the
Brighton line were not riveted on to the wheel as the iron
tires were—as it was conceived that the effect would be to
weaken the tires, though that could not be the case to any
considerable extent. The rivets required to be soft, and
when they wore away, the surface of the wheel would be
rendered uneven. Not one-tenth of the wheel tires on the
Brighton and Dover line were steeled, so that nine-tenths of
them were riveted. The part of the tire where the fracture
took place on Monday last was so 'defective that it would
never have been put on if the fact had been known.
The CORONER—Had the inspector any means of ascer-
taining that the tire was so defective? Witness--I do n't
see how he could, for it had been tested by " blocking," and
also by being rolled in hoops.
The Con.ortEß—What would you recommend to prevent
the recurrence of such accidents? Witness—l only know of
one thing, and that I don't think certain in its operation.
I mean putting in 1%-inch screw rivets from the inside of
the wheel over every 18 inches of the circumference of the
tire. I should recommend that the screws pass through to

the steel, or as near it as possible. This would, at least,
prevent; the fragments of the tire, when it gave way, flying
so far as they have done on this occasion.
Mr. J. M'Cowxxi.r., an engineer, lately in the employ of
the Bristol and Birmingham Railway Company, but now
superintendent of the locomotive department of the London
and North-Western Railway, said, that having seen the
broken tire from the driving-wheel of the Queen, he had
come to the conclusion that it had been badly welded in the
first instance. From the section shown by the fracture, he
thought that only the pieces cut from the extremity of each
arm of the V., and from the point of its apex, had been
united—that the whole had not been properly fused to-
gether, owing to an improper mode of working the weld.
One large- V-piece bad been introduced over almost
the entire breadth of the tire, and that V not
being of the exact form of the V-space, which
it ought to have filled, had not united except where it re-
ceived the blows of the hammer. He had seen tires welded
with two V's meeting in their centre. He had also just been
informed by Mr. Gooch of the plan pursued by him at
Swindon, and which with slight variations he had seen
practised before. He considered Mr. Gooch's plan more
likely to produce a solid weld than any other which he knew
of. It was quite possible that with ordinary care the un-
soundness in the broken tire might have escaped the eye,
particularly when the outer skin presented a sound appear-
ance. He had known tires, in frosty weather, break at other
parts than the weld. It appeared that the fibres of the
broken tire were changing to crystals. He could not say
whether that was the result of the iron being of bad quality,
or of some other cause. Different circumstances would pro-
duce such a change at different periods of time. If the wheel
were overbalanced it would be produced very soon. The
fracture did not take place from the iron being crystallized.
On the Bristol and Gloucester line steel tires were much used,
but none of them were ever broken at the weld. They were
not fastened by rivets, and many of them were made at the
same works as those of the Great Western Company. A
very small proportion of the wheels used on the Bristol and
Gloucester line were riveted, and the riveting was to
strengthen the wheel, and not to keep the tire on. When
they broke asunder from frost, they did so most commonly
at the rivet-heads.
The COROXER—WouId you recommend the suagestiou
already made to us by Mr. Cubitt? Witness—l think that
by introducing a screw from within the wheel you would en-
sure safety if a fracture of the tire did take place, and I would
recommend the adoption of that plan.
Mr. J. Braithwaite, engineer to several railway • compa-
nies, and residing at 39, Bedford-square, said that he had in-
spected the broken tire, and hewing heard the evidence al-
ready given considered there could not be a doubt that the
unsound welding was the cause of the fracture. The imper-
fection occupied about 60 per cent. of the section, and the
strength of the wheel was, therefore, not one-third of what. it.
ought to be. No human foresight could on examination have
determined that such an unsoundness existed. He had him-
self been a manufacturing engineer, and be bore testimony to
the superior quality of the work produced from the Haigh
Foundry. Welding was a very difficult process, but the way
in which the weld of the broken tire had been effected, though
it would save time to the workmen, was such as he thought
the authorities of the Haigh Foundry would not approve of
or allow, if for nothing else, for the sake of their reputation.
which stood deservedly high. There being enough of metal
in the tire to support many tons' weight, blocking did not
sufficiently teat its unsoundness, which was rendered invisible
by the outer skin of the wheel. The mode adopted by Mr.
Gooch was that in which the weld should have been effected.
lie considered the screw from within the wheel a more per-
fect way than riveting for avoiding such casualties in future.
He decidedly preferred the screw to the absence of all fasten-
ing, which some recommended; and from the fact that the
broken tire of the Quern, though not one-third of its pro-
per strength, travelled with that engine some 20,000 miles,
he contended that no tire could be weakened by the bore of
all%-inch, or a l'%-inch screw. Such a plan would give the
public a greater degree of security, as far as opinion went.
The fractured metal appeared to be very much crystalized.
An axle had a greater tendency to crystalize than a wheel,
as it was subject to greater alternate action and reaction.
Steeled tires were ,in his opinion, for some purposes stronger
than any other, but perhaps they were more subject to the
influences of weather. The advantage of them, however,
was so great,•that it was the duty of every engineer to use all
precautions possible in continuing them.
Mr. Gooch announced that for the future the screw would
be used on the Great Western Railway, and that he had not
used it before because he thought it would interfere with the
strength of the tire. (Mr. Gooch then read to the coroner
and jury a long letter which he had received from the Haigh
Foundry Company, with respect to the unsound tire made
their
orders; them, which had caused the accident. The letter stated
that the tire could not have teen made according to
that they had endeavoured in vain to discover by
whom it was welded; that the men employed by them on
'
such work were their best hands, the work being of a ve y
difficult character; that being well paid, they had uo excuse
for carelessness ; and that, as a security against defective welds,
they were required to pay the expense of replacing any that
might fail, besides making another tire, if necessary, without
pay.)
Mr.Gooch then proceeded to explain the instructions
given by him for effecting a good weld in tires. The ends
of the tire being brought together and united for a small por-
tion of its breadth, a V-piece, for which a space is prepared
in the shape of the ends, is then welded in. On the base of
that V-piece, a section of the base of a larger V-piece is then
welded in, the ends of the tire here again corresponding to
the angular ends of the section, and these ends extending
beyond the base of the V -piece under it. Above this section
of a V-piece is welded in a second section like it in shape,
extending beyond its base, fitting into the ends of the tire,
and occupying the whole remaining breadth of the tire. The
space round the angular ends of the last section isthen cut out,
and a new piece of welding put in. A piece is also cut out
at the apex of the welded V-piece first inserted, and a new
piece of welding put in. The different stages of this process
are all performed at separate heats, and they are so contrived
that the facilities for effecting a good weld are greatly in-
creased, while the operations being multiplied, the
chances are that a sufficient number of them will be successful
even though others may canto secure an adequate strength.
He had at Swindon, as an additional precaution, adopted
means, by iron bands, of placing the resistance nearer to the
strain during the process of welding.
The ConoNEa-then-briefly addressed the j ury.—lt was quite
clear, he said, that no blame attached to the railway people,
and that there was none with reference either to the engi-

neer or the driver. After reviewing the evidence, he said
that the object of their inquiry ought to be to prevent the
recurrence of such a calamity. It appeared to him that they,
could come to no other conclusion than that the deaths of
the (leceased,were strictly accidental. At the same time,
however, such an accident held out a very useful lesson. In
this case two lives were lost; there might hare been fifty.
In fact, when they considered the speed at which an express
train travelled, there was no knowing what might be the ex-
tent of the calamity if anything went wrong. 'the tire
might have flown off at a platform crowded with passengers,
and killed sixty people. Therefore, it gave him groat satis-
faction to see persons of such high repute present, and all
agreeing that it would be a safer and better plan to adopt
the fastening by screws. Common sense told them that the
recommendation was a good one: He hoped that wherever
steeled tires were in use, the screw should be also used as a
fastening; and after that recommendation, if any engineer
had the hardihood to go on with the old practice, and any
calamity arose therefrom, as in the present case, such an en-
gineer would incur a fearful responsibility at law. The Co-
roner concluded by thanking the jury for the patient atten-
tion which they had given to the case.
A juryman—Is railway travelling limited as to speed?
The CORONER—No. sir; not by law.
Juryman—That appears to me a great omission, for if a
coach or other vehicle is driven furiously the driver is liable
to a penalty.

Tlie
Coii.oNEß—There is no such limitations as to railways,
and the public are principally to blame for it, if it is a fault.
Directors find that they can scarcely satisfy the public in
this respect. A gentleman got into the quarter to 10 o'clock
express train to Exeter some short time ago, and almost
immediately fell asleep. He did not awake till the train had
stopped :It Exeter at a quarter past 2 o'clock, when, pulling
out his watch and seeing the hour, he called out to the
guard, " God bless me, can't you manage to go a little
faster ?"—(Great laughter.) I believe in a short time there
must be some arrangement on this head.
Juryman—l don't think there can be a better man than
the Hon. Member for Finsbury to forward such an object.
The jury having retired for 20 minutes, on their return
the foreman delivered their unanimous verdict to the follow-
ing effect:—" That the deceased came by their deaths acci-
dentally in the manner described, and that it was advisable
that in future the tires should be fastened on the wheels in
the manner recommended by the engineers who had been.
examined."