The Sun.
London, England, 1841-09-25 00:00:00

The people wanted to know what the leading principles of the
Right Hon. Bart. would be Athey wanted to know whether the
abstinence of the Right Hon. Bre-emelt was an abstinence with
a view to a change in the prissii,les or' 'neeC.,rn-lars „ or ~.:e-ther
ther it was to be a change not in the principle lout in some of
the details, leaving them still to have their injurious effects.
The present was no subject for joking ; and he was sure that
whatever levity might now be felt, it would not be felt much
longer.
Mr. VILLIERS said, as he was one of those who com-
plained of the course the Government were determined to
pursue, he could not help before the close of the debate making
clear to the House what the point was between those who com-
plained and the intentions of the Right Hon. Baronet. It was
on behalf of them alleged that they had beets complaining of
certain restraints imposed on the commerce of the country;
that they occasioned fluctuations in their condition injurious in
every point of view ; and they believed their condition so
deteriorated was entirely owing to those restrictions.
They did not state this upon light authority, but
they said that when these laws were brought forward those evils
were predicted, and they called upon that House, in more in-
temperate language than before, to inquire into those restric-
tions. Since 1838 the condition of the manufacturing classes
had been declining. The Noble Lord the Member for North
Lancashire admitted that the purpose of the Corn-law was
to raise the price of corn to an artificial level in order to keep
up the price of land. Since 1838 the people had been demand-
ing loudly that some inquiry should be instituted into the
causes of their distress, and the working of these laws—but
how were they met? The Right Hon. Baronet was backed by
majorities in both Houses of Parliament; it was, therefore,
his duty to tell the starving people what steps he proposed to
take for the amelioration of their condition. The Government
had developed a little of their plan—what he complained
of was, that having said so much, he did not say
more.—(Hear, hear.) The country had been informed by
probably the most confidential of the friends of the Right Hon.
Baronet that the Corn-laws were to continue as they now
stood, and he denied that any of the distress, which he admitted
to exist, arose from the operation of these laws. The pre-
sumption therefore was, that he did not intend to interfere
with the Corn-laws ; but in such a case had not the country a
right to know what other plan he had to propose for the re-
lief of the people ? The people complained of deep distress, and
offered to prove its existence, but inquiry was refused, while
the distress was almost denied.—(Cries of " No, no.") It
might almost be presumed, because the Right Honourable
Baronet came down, and in answer to the assertion that
it was gre%t, produced a report from the Savings'
Banks, in order to prove the progressive improvement
of the country that the deposits had increased
during the last three months, which was no symptom of dis-
tress.—( No, no.) He ought to have referred to the returns
since 18-35 upwards, and then see where the progressive im-
provement would be. But the Right Hon. Baronet said he
declined to state his plans before the dissolution ; he was
brought into power upon the principle of saying nothing, and
therefore he would say nothing. But considering the men
from whom the complaints came—men who were not disposed to
offer any factious opposition to any Government—men who at
all times brought forward the complaints and grievances of the
people—he thought they and the country had reason for com-
plaint at. the course which had been pursued.
Mr. COBDEN rose amidst cries of " Oh, eh." He could
readily understand the impatience of Hon. Gentlemen opposite,
and the taunt which had been thrown out against them for
bringing on the discussion again, after, as was said, it
had been settled by a division. But had not cir-
cumstances altered since that ? Had not Manchester
Leeds, London, Glasgow, and every manufacturing town.
met and remonstrated against the plan of the Government in
breaking up the Session without an attempt to relieve their
distress? Now, might they not have been justified in thinking
that her Majesty's Government might have reconsidered their
opinion. But no. Probably they might be of opinion, along
with one of their number, that town's meetings were farces ;
but, if so, they would be taught better. The answer made to
the remonstrances of the manufacturers, three years ago, by
the Right Hon. Baronet, was a quotation of the exports and
imports, in order to prove the increasing trade of the country.
But now he came down with a report, for three months, of the
deposits of the Savings' Banks, in order to show the progress-
hig improvement of the country. The people, however,
would not be content with that ; they would look back to
former reports, anti contrast them with the present one. The
Right Hon. Baronet had alluded to a report issued by
the Chamber of Commerce of Manchester in 1839, and lie
said that body attributed all the distress then existing to the
excessive issues of Joint-stock Banks. He had acted
most unfairly in quoting only part of that docu-
ment.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") Had he looked carefully
through it, he would have found that they attributed
the distress to the fluctuations caused by the sliding scale and
nothing else. He quoted the report, but he made no mention
of that most important fact. But it was not a question of
Savings' Banks, or of exports and imports—it was a question
whether thelpeople were to be fed. The people wanted bread,
and it was the duty of the House to minister to their wants.
The landlords had insisted upon being commissaries for feeding
the manufacturing population, but the people would insist upon
the return of their inalienable right to feed themselves—to ex-
change the products of their industry for food wherever they could
obtain it.—( Cheers. ) If that just and reasonable demand were
refused them, the whole of the distress and suffering would be
chargeable upon the landed aristocracy.—( Cheers.) He told
Hon. Gentlemen that the capitalists would feed the people if they
would let them ; but if they passed laws prohibiting them from
exchanging their commodities for the food which other nations
were anxious to part with for those commodities, on them rest
the awful responsibility. They acted the part of the dog in the
manger ; they would not feed the people themselves, and they
took care that no one else should.—( Cheers.) But some of
her Majesty's Government affected to doubt whether it was pos-
sible for the manufacturers to feed the people. The Noble
Lord, the Member for North Lancashire, told his constituents
that the people of America had no corn to spare for the wants
of this country. The Noble Lord ought to have known better,
for he had been there, and must know that along the Ohio,
in Michigan, and in Illinois there were no less than 180
millions of acres of excellent wheat lands, which the Ame-
ricans were most anxious to put into immediate cultivation,
and England might thence be abundantly supplied for 100
years with bread and beef and all else that was necessary.
The people of America had sent over a missionary, to this
country in order to tell us that they wanted our goods, not at
lower prices, they thought our wages were too low ; but they
would take them at our own prices if we would only take their
produce ; they would then empty our warehouses and set to
work the thousands in the potteries in Sheffield and all the
manufacturing districts.—(Cheers. ) Suppose that instead of
its being across the Atlantic it was only across the Thames—
suppose on one side was a body of starving artisans with their
bales of goods of all kinds anxious to exchange them for food ;
and suppose on the other side there were a body of agricul-
turists ill clothed but with :abundance of corn, anxious
to exchange it for merchandise ; suppose them about
to accommodate their mutual wants, when up starts
a demon in the middle of the river.—(Laughter.) Yes, a
demon with an Act of Parliament in his hand—(Laughter)
_lnd say " You shall not supply each other."—(Cheers. )
But, further, the demon might smile, and with a demoniac leer
tell his victims that all he did was for their own protection.
Where was the difference between the two cases, for the
winds and the waves could bring us corn as well as cotton,
or any other article of produce ? Such laws were contrary to
the law of nature and of God. The best of every thing from
abroad was saved for the London market, in order to feed the
luxury of the bread taxers. But let them go into Poland,
and see the pigs sent amongst the luxuriant corn, because of
the want of a market. Let them ask why there was such waste,
and they would immediately be told of the sliding scale
being applied to it, because it was the food of the poor.
What was it that was sent abroad to pay for those luxuries—
it was the produce of the horny hands of the operative—the
labour of his hands went abroad, but the bread-taxers passed
a law, saying that nothing should be brought back but those
things which would minister to the gorged luxury of their
own class.—( Hear and cheers.) Again, he would ask were
such laws consistentiwith the laws of nature ? Could they
hope the people would be content—could they expecs any-
thing but agitation or convulsion in the country until they
were repealed'? When he saw the frequent verdicts of "Died
by Starvation" which had of late been returned, he could call
them nothing but Legislative murder.—( Hear, hear.) The
Noble Lord (Stanley) said the Corn-laws were intended to
raise prices unnaturally. How could that be done unless
they made corn scarce, and therefore dear ? It mattered not
to them that the price was 200 s. they would always get plenty;
but to the poor—that portion of society the least
able to bear it—it produced starvation. (Hear, hear. )
He (Mr. Cobden) would not do less than protest against the
course adopted by the Government upon principle. He could
not look upon the matter as a party question. He protested
against the subject ever being put on the footing cf a party
question between a Noble Baronet on one side and a Noble
Lord on the other. He called on them to consider the ques-
tion as it affected the poor. The lion. Baronet the Member
for North, Warwickshire (Sir E. Wilmott) was a great friend
to the negro. Another :Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Inglis) was a
great friend to Church Extension. He heard that Hon. Ba-
ronet compliment a Noble Lord for his humanity—for being
the friend of the unprotected factory children. —( Hear,
hear.) He'(Mr. C.) was glad ofthat humanity existing amongst
them, but he told them it would give more force, more grace
to those professions of humanity, if it was not confined to the
negro or to Church extension. Whilst they kept up the
bread-tax, which raised the price of bread, their professions
of kindness and benevolence were inconsistent—whilst by
their legislation they kept provisions dear, their benevolence
would be but a mockery and a bye-word.
Captain CARNEGIE could not help expressing his sur-
prise at the manner in which the Hon. Members for Stock-
port and Bolton treated this subject. They did not act
consistently with common sense in speaking thus se frequently
on a subject without their having the remotest prospect of car-
rying their measures with respect to it.—(Hear, hear, from the
Opposition Benches.) He (Captain C.) was willing to give
the Right Hon. Baronet time, because he considered it was in-
dispensable, and he could not in the present position of affairs
but remember the line of Milton—

" They also serve who only stand and wait."
Hon. Members said why did they not go on—why did they not
legislate, bat he thought they should consider before they went
on. He (Capt. C.) would give his vote to the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet because he had confidence in his abilities and integrity,
which would justify him in that course. He had no hesitation
in believing that under the Right Hon. Baronet's administration
they would see England placed at a higher pitch of
prosperity than she had ever yet attained. If his (Capt. C.'s)
anticipations_ Were: not realised—if the Right Hon. Baronet
could not carry or. the Government with satisfaction to himself
and the country, he had already stated the course he should
adopt. However much he ( Captain Carnegie) should regret
such a turn of events, he would nevertheless endeavour to aid
those who might be called to the administration of the Govert.-

meat to carry any necessaries which would be a greatest benefit
to the greatest number. If her Majesty should please to call
the Hon. Members for Bolton and Stockport to the Adminis-
tration of Affairs, he should not ask them what were their
intentions. He should say to them, "We have tried and
failed ; come you and try."
Mr. THORNELY thought that nothing was more ob-
vious than the injurious effect on trade and commerce and the
general interests of the c-iuntry which then attended the work-
ing of the sliding seale. The Hon. Member read two letters
from persons extensively engaged in trade in support of his

„ .
opinion..
Mr. BROTHERTON said that the present state of the
country was deplorable. Thousands and tens of thousands of
families were in a destitute state for want of employment. Ii
was necessary the House should be made acquainted with such
a condition of affairs. The other night he had referred to the
conei,ion of the borough of Salford.—( Hear.) By a
memorial presented on° the subject to the Secretary
of State it appeared that things were worse in that town than
he (Mr. Brothcrton) had stated them to be. Instead of
1,500 t ouses being unoccupied, it appeared there were 2,030.
In Manchester the state of matters was equally bad. During
the last year upwards of 10,000 families were relieved in that
town. It was on that account they were earnestly desirous
that something should be done to alleviate the distress. What-
ever was the cause of the distress, it was their duty to endea-
vour to find it out and remedy it. With regard to the depre-
ciation of property, he received a letter that morning,
informing him of mills and machinery being lately
offered for sale. They had originally cost 50,0001.,
and when put up to auction only brought 4,50e1.
Property had, in fact, been depreciated to the amount of 40 or,
50 per cent. even with regard to houses. They would see that
the greatest distress existed in the manufacturing districts if
they would consider the state of those districts a few years ago.
About four or or five years they were in a state of prosperity.
Returns made by a gentleman whohad entered into:calculations