The Sun.
London, England, 1815-02-18 00:00:00

CORN LAW,

Mr. ROBINSON moved the Order of the Day f or
going : into a Committee of the At•lfOie (loon on
he Reports oh the Lorck,and
the Corn Laws-.
tointrions on the Corn La were ordered to he
referred to the s:one Committee.

IV. Smntit (previous to the Speak„,.
lcav-
il)'! the Chli:j said, that whoa oil fornier occa_
sioti this pies:ion had"heen before the 'louse, he
.pposed inv,sr:?,,,iiffli of it then, on the ;.;roinni
of its being prk.litatmre, rattier titan wiith a view to
nierit. His ()pinion at present Was swriewln't
different frOM %Chia he :lieu eat erta tied. Ile
thou,ght that lumen was gained by the interval
tliat !tact passed ; but even till he considered (re
unstasouab'iv brought forwarii. lie
!initi..i.m.not.l a few days ago, that the financial

•,
,••
"in "'Om , ,t the Hon. 'the -C mcolcello 0r
the 1:x(1o:toter Would precede this-inqpuiryio as in
due coarse they ()tight. If the only quest oin
present \Vali a gesreral impdry into toe corn Law's,
it th'ei's pi eeede the Isltaiicial tneastire ; but
'dle': it Vvas intended to PrOiVo.se a specific limitaL
tithi tit the importation of rpreign grain by. fixing
a certain price, then certainly the former should
be asCertained it One of the• essential principles
by which the latter shottloL4c regfiloted. frhe
fluty on foreign grain should Tie maioly regnlated,
by the nature and extent of the Taxes to be
brought forward. How could a prohibiting price
be fi%ed at 63, or 75, or 80 shillings, or at any sum,
without !list ascertaining to what amount, upon
what articles, on and what classes of the public the
61\0 were to nress2 Was the House; be would ask,
vet in pOsfessi‘ott of certain infornottion of the dis-
etninhance of the Property Tax He would also
I Wish to be informed, before he was called upon
to give his opinion on this subject, whether the
taxtepon agricultural horses, and other taxes of
the same nature, were intended to be disconti-
nued.' The course now proposed wa eposter-
ons. The natural and proper order of proceeding
' was reverted. It would perhaps be said that the
Chancellor of the Exchequer had -given a suffi-
cient assurance that the Income Tax should not
be renewed. Of this he (Mr. W. Smith) should
1 be extremely glad, as be had ever considered it an
odious and oppressive tax, awl a badge of slaVery.
The Right Hon. Gentleman may smile (the Chau-
' cellor of the Exchequer had smiled at the Hots.
Member's ealliug the loco:1)e 'fax a badge of
slavery), but he (Mr. S.) conceived the ingoisi-
torial dominion exercised by this tax, as 'border-
. in, upon servitude. If the Eight lion. the Chan-
celfor of the Exchequer gave a satisfactory pledge
of its discontiniumee (a pledge which, by the bye,
be chid out expect), he should not object to an
inonediate discussion of the Corn Laws, brit with
the possibility that still existed of its being re-
Hewed; 'in preference to the measure which the
Itieht Hon. Gentleman had to propose, he could
not consent to go into the- discossions of the other
question.
...the SPEAKER having then left the Chair—
Mr. Rost NSON observed that his ()Illy object,
on the present occa‘iou, was to state to tile
House the general principles of the Resolutions
to which they would be called on to agree, and
previously to explain their nature. He believed
that the forms of the House required that the Re-
solutions should, iii the first instance, be printed ;
and that unless the Committee declined to' emer-
tain those Resolutions at all, that they should be
voted. It was his'iutention, if they, were . ;reed
to, that they should be refuted to Committee
of the whole. He regretted that from his ;led-
dental 'absence on a former evening, when the
subject waS mentioned, he had att been able to
communicate what was "his intention ; but he
trusted. the House would feel assured that it never
was his Wish to propose the measure in such a 1
way as to preclude the fullest diScussion upon it at
a future opportunity. If.the length of time since
the topic Wiis first introduced had caused it to be at
tended with the disadvautage of falling to his lot to
bring irforward at present,th ere would he one great
advantage to counteract his own want of ability—.-
an advantage attending all questions Of this kind,
that of receiving a notch more full, complete,
and satisfactory investigation of all its circom-
stances ; rill investigatioo never likely to do barns ;
but iu this case particularly beneficial ; as it would
enable every Gentleman to come to the final dis-
cussion with his mind much better informed than
itnrecipitatiofi had been adopted, nod to supply,
front his own actual knowledge, whatever infOrtna-
thin might be ttecessetry. He had never disguised
the fact, that the time when ithportation ought to
commence was a matter difficult to be decided on ;
hot he ventured to think that there need be no
difficulty in adopting.the pr inciple he Was about
to recommend. He believed that many of the
prejudices which had, hitherto prevailed against
the measure of prohibiting importation till Corn
was at a certain price, had-been either totally re-
moved, or greatly qualified by inquiry ; but lie
could not flatter himself, that they had been re-
moved fim! the Minds of many thouunds of
persons in the whole country. Their opinionS,
no doubt, remained unchanged, and were like-
ly to continue so ; but tunongi,t- Malty other thou-
sands, a great point had beet' gained ; for not
only were their apprehensions mite(' removed, but
the gross misrepreseutat ions so prominent as to .
the object and motives of those who proposed and
supported the measure, were dour; away. lie
had no doubt in his mind, that the majority of
the people no Fornioc believed that the object was
the mean, baSe, and detestable ()ire of enabling •
one class of society to gain great profits by agri-
cultural pursuits, to the injury of the rest ; and
fi' his own part, if by ary possibility . he could
believe that this.would be the effect of the onea-
sore, he deClared that no consideration on earth
should have induced him to bring it forward,
But he firmly believed that its only motive
am! object teas to ClO good to the commu-
nity at large. The course, therefore, %%Lich he
hoped, and had no doubt the House would'
adopt, would prove, that, it 'had scot in view
the interest of any particular class of individuals,
but that it was jegislating for the general be-
nefit of ail.. In looking to the principles that';
should guide their decision, they must recollect,
that they were not now in the situation of decid-
ing fur the first, time, as to whether they shall
act upon the principle of restriction or not. This
point had
"been deliberately discussed ; and on
this, as on all subjects, they had exercised their
discretion. They were not now to consider whe-
ther they should adopt this stein or not ; but
they were to reflect that when a system is once
adopted and. fully acted upon, it cannot be de-
parted from without such a tremendous revulsion
as, must be generally felt atoL.hiohly injurions.
lA, hen we apply existing circumstances to different
cases, we find a great similarity between them ;
but trout not reflecting on this point, many persons
are unaware that what is injurious, oppressive,. or,
on the contrary, ath'ahtil:,4cous, in (Me branch, of
trade or manufacture, applies equally so to others.
For exiunple, wool is not allowed. to be exported,
even in the smallest quantities, front this coon'-
try; but he did not state this to support an argt- I
uncut in favour of not allowing the exportalhin
of any thing else; but in a question likc the pre-.

Pe'riOn 'deeply Intel e&tl
ed, what lie contended for was., that it Should be
`made a .consideratiiin to lie glinted by feeling.—
. The effects produced by thiS System of resit iciion
lave htieri., as every *id v knows, an ektraordi-ity
ilierterte ail the agrirultu,re of the .cOuutry, Which
has also been accompanied by an increase or
charge in its fertilization ; becatts'e it IS well
know that one land devoted to agrieultUre is of ti
very limited extent, when couilimitd with the
amount of population which is to be supplied with
fbod ; and that in proportion as this population
increases, which it has progressively and rapidly
done of late years, together with a corresponding
and extraordinary inctOse in the nninufactiires,
in the same proportion is the demand upon agri.
cultural produce for the supply of food. Whenever
Corn is produced from laud, which has IP:en fer-
tilised at a great expense, it must be sold at a
dear rate ; and the price may be hiereased by ad-
ventitious circumstances, dependent upon_ the
seasons ; but this is the inevitable consequence of
our situation, unless we have au unlimited impor-
tation from foreign countries to supply the ac-
cidental or regular deficiencies, which, if they
were to' occur every year, would always. keep
us in a state of want. He thought, generally
speaking, that times might happen, when we
might be in very great want and distress. In
the first place, then, let us suppose that we were
relying for relief on the importation of foreigh
Corn ; and that our own home production had
been greatly diminished.; and suppose, also, that
at the same time there existed a scarcity abroad„
we should then hare to encounter the calamity
of a double deficiency, which might pioduee
the Must serious consequences..— Thereetne,
although we pay a greater price for our own
produce, the benefit we derive is greater and
certain. Many eircomSttiuccs h ...es.t.es what he had
alluded to- might allect the. importation of Corn,
if we were permanently to rely upon it. War has
affected it, and amity again ; besides which, it never
could be enough to fetd the people. F"reig" na-
tions, might also be averse from supplying .us if we
were at war with them ; and if ever any nation
on earth was jealous on t his subject, it was Prunce,
even at this moment. France, therefore, might
eaike 1 prohibition to toke place when we were
most in want cat iMpOriations ; and then what
would' he our situation, and 'to what could we
trust ? Ile really thought that such a reliance on
haportations might at SOnle time or other prove
fatal to our agricultural and mitinufacturing
interests. Let the House look only to Ire,
Iband That people were essentially agricul-
tural, although they did not themselves subsist
generally 7 tipl+ll ,Corn. The country, how-
ever, grows Much More than it CollstiflieS, and,
therefore, the surplus produce should be en-
conraged to meet with a sale, in preference to
foreign imports ; and if a sale is not to be found
for this produce, then what -to become of the
people ? ,If they ore driven from the home mar-
kcts, where are they to go ?-:-(Hear, hear
would he impossible for them tb find a Market in '
any other country. It was not necessary fur hint
to argue on the tremendous situation to which, 1
under such eircionstan'ees, that cbontey would be '
reduced. When we were told that this is a guts.-
thou of humanity, and that the louse would thus
not bejostified in taking airy 'measure to raise the
price of Corn, he would ask, was it hunmnity
towards six millions of the people of our empire
to give to foreigners a preierence to them ? When
ihe question of httaanity were so put, he thought
it applied as strongly to one part of the country
as to another. lie was not aware that there was
any necessity to agree on this general principle any
longer. He conceived he was addressing an
audience capable of appreciating the brief argu-
ments he had made use of, and should not detain
the Committee with any observations in
The general result, he conceived, was, that it teas
impossible for us safely to rely on foreign importa-
tions ; that if we do think we can rely on them,
the conseupienee will bc, a diminution of our own
agricultural interests ; that when the fatal mo-
ment comes, the shock will be of such ti nature
that may easily be imagined, though he had but
feebly endeavoured to describe it. The nation
would find itself in extreme misery, and deplore
its delusion. A principal point to be considered
was, what should be the extent at which the prohi-
'bition should take effect. On this there would most
'most likely be a difference of opinion.~ocneper-
sons might think it right to putt the price of impor-
tatiOd•considerably higher than what would be
.proposed I others would Wish to fix it still lower,
and tnight contend, that because many burthens
were about to be removed, that a reduced price
could be taken for the produce of the land, and af-
ford a fair profit: lie would not agree to this,
if be could think the necessary effect would be
to bring up the market price of corn to that point ;
hut he did not believe it would be so ; for what
with the competition between England and Ire-
land; the annnal produce would be so large, that
except in bad seasons, he did not believe but what
we should have a supply amply sufficient to feed
the whole population of the country. Ile could
not conceive what it was that could necessarily
keep up the price of corn to the amouut at which
the importation was to commence. The price he
was disposed to recommend, was 80s. for Wheat,
and that the relative proportions of other, grain
should remain exactly as they are at present. The
nature of the,Resolution that be had first to propose
was, that at all times 'Meal and Flour of whatever
description should he imported, with the excep-
tidn,of Flour, into Ireland, and that it should he
warehoused, free of any duty, and exported also,
till the average price for a given time could be
certained; rescrviig, however, some principle with
regard to the calculations but that the importation I
should be prohibited till Wheat was at 60s. after
w
h i
ich all importations from any part of the world
,should, be permitted, free of duttyi; and then un-
der no eiretrmstances should Corn pay any duty
whatever. With regard to the importation into
our own Colonies in the West Indies and.Anie-
riea, the price should be Ws. which Would be iii
the same proportion
,as 80s. iu Ent land; butt that
it should not be usable till the market price was
ills. and titter that it
tti:uchous•_s fur
lan c: propuartivau to gois..trciul:l 1)111! that Gig. felt' vilyttliajoebssr:tie.zttsll3tid;.lki
ficli."l.:icoiCielsl::ystitalo:::::.:euiG!ultr:ecis'dee...
&t sv inch .the linter

100 (',f,srrve, that !I onl-e gonerai out-
but :he Rc,o;u:ions e;ould• not involve aa'Y
&in'ndicated tilatit'!' ft dilmn,isiott'. be princi-
pal ottetion they' Ore fo he considered viould be,
whether it would be right •tti adopt the IN:soh:-
. tion, and whetlii4e Plice propoSud was the
proper one to he tiked 3 As it wa's not his inten-
tion to call on the ik,use Id come to any specific'
opinion at present, he trusted he should 1p!
cttsed for ti it goiug into ftittlier detail on the
subject. But be must that he felt extretnelti
unwilling to undertake it, from a knowledge 0.,,r
, hii incapacity to do it justice. He would there:
fore only ;i(1(1, that he die i in his conscience
liere that tile measure was one of uni.:ersal De-
nefit and utility. He must state that it wits nOt
his intention to . propose any alteration in the.
method of taking the evereges ; but he pro-,
posed to make one alteration in the mode ill;
which they would apply. the fluctuations
in the prices during three months were often
tonsiderable, lie would recommend, that ai
ban' now stands, when the importation is allowe.d
at all, it should be allowed for three months,.
taking the average of the three weeks preecdiali,
the three months. It might be objected, th 3.
three months would allow of the intieoduction
an enormous glut from France and Ft :nders, 311.
to invert the scale of prices on the itn,tane.
should therefore "stTrest, that the period of three,
months should be allowed for inipc)rtations frolti
America ; hot with regard to those front 101'14
bet ween'the',Garonue and the Eider, if it appejr- ,
ed at the expiration of six weeks that the averlcill
price below 80s. that the importation shotatl
then be stopped ; with a due :Allowance of tinie,
however, fur the ships coming from distant
of the Continent. 'That would prove a bar • t‘"
speculation, aud he did not apprehend it. wonl'i
be attended' with any had con?..equenees.—l'o
Right Hon'. Gentleaan concluded by moviuo
r, ft•
first Resolution, namely,
s"l'liat any sort of Foreign Corn, Meal, or Fidur, shall 11
allowki to be imported into the• United King•dom, and a"
housed there, without the payment of any Duty whatever.'

Mr. PiiILLIPS said, that if it was the will
House to bring the subject now under debate, ltrc
would at' once offer.his opinion upon it ;, but "
otherwise,, Ire would be silent. (Several voiee4,
having exchimed—" Go on, go on !")—he saidi
he agreed with the Right
,Hon. Gentleman, tbat
I this was a question on which a great variety of
. opinions existed. It Was one On which the honi-
ed and the manufacturing interests were particn'
Ludy at variance ; bat he should say, that it 'Ns°
the duty of. the Legislature not to pay attenti"!i
to One class, in preference to aunther, but to adol't
.Mist and general principles. He felt stirprised ai
its beiag thought that there was ally Gcc3:
Sion to deliberate. What occasion was there I"
labour at discovering a remedy for a low pric.!,
of grain ? Was it that we consider a re.'
I disadvantage What other nations conceive r',/
be the greatest advantage they caul' posse;' •
—(Hear, hear !)—A regular and uniform .pric°
is attempted to be fixed here by limiting the snri
ply ; while in all other countries it is attained
inercasnig the quantity.• He could not conco'
any machinery More calculated for -producihg ktt
effect (lir- ctly co»trary to what ought to be e.;
petted. 'llse Right Hon. Gentleman • say, ►
shall have Corn cheaper by his noole than by
(WWI:- litc,knA; 3 but how is thi,:,...ripee oat ?.
has peculiar facilities fur the production' of Coils
And therefore Ireland might surely bear colapc°;-;
(ion With this coUntry without .iajnry.
told, that We are not able to get a proper suP!,,,;',:;•;
if we would. What was to prevent ? '
have found it whe'n it was wanted, even itt t
worst of times, under the despotism ofnuonavn°o
—lf at aky 'time a Proclatiuition were issuca
to
procure a supply•of Cora, the effect would be' `Li
effort on the part of other countries to 'sOPl).
ours. Could any person conceive way
calctqated to increase the price oh corn, that) t'
el
experiment of cultivating inferior lands at hon'or
n
and you tiot go on iucieffnitelv Increasing `.l` e„
new tifilge, though. what is deeMed a retn"':
rating.price this year may be thought far fro'
remunerating price next Year. .121felZislit 1P);10
'Gentleman •says, that it is necessary to five
same sort of privilege to agriculture as to th"')ii.,
factures. (Mr. Robinson said a few Ivorti3
• c •
expianation). Ile did state that the tnanutactaf.a
of the country would gain tunler the restrieti:2,,
system. Let us consider the effect of this sYst`'be
If it has operated, it has oceksioned capita!
invested in trades in which we have no soperio.
but are inferior 'to our neighbours. Tl►i4o.,
positive' injury. Other manutactm es, ho'eve
xvhieli are totally independent of them, couid-°,O
as without as with them. But the tcliitt( (
between the price of Labour and the pnce
Corn was a material cousiderat ion ; and he
contend, that if these Resolutions did not
dace the effect of raisin;:; the price of Coo'
'
would be considered 'inoperative. • Let us el(); or,
,tier what will he the effect on the price Of
We are told in the Lords' lierort, by several :eco
nesses, that there is little or no relation, he t,5•
the price of Talhour and the price of Provi',ooto
( Here the Hon. Gentleman 'read some too),
from the Report, to this effect.) It was sOte
Ffl
some of the witnesses, that a hiztli
,ions invariably produced a low price of Li.'
tow'
Therefore it is evident that we are at temo ting
crease the wealth of the rich and depre6s
to A
veety of the poor ; and we. are going on rcifes',„
practically what can be the miniiituni of o`,- of
the poor could bear, anti what the uw.tiol!i:ls'
wealth, that . could be gained by their snif`ll-4el
Ile would defy any man to spew that suit„
soiling is not literally true, and that re.s",:tiolt'
not he the effects of the measure in conteall'orict.
lu nets countries, where the agriculture isr,ei•
ing and progressive, the rate of the :'01";
InallaketOrets may be so high as to heal' s
live proportion to the price of provisi°°o.atie
America the highest price of labour i 4 le. or"- k
,
neatly proportionate to the lowest'prict- 0,04,
visions. If then, in regard to 11.10:10fil ( •
you increase the price of proYisiOnS., );efOrti:
a, serious injury:to labour. What, the vole
is the situation of the labourer? t
sixtecu hours instead of ten, in order (0. Platicro
the common necessaries of life; and the IP.'„,a
that he must work himself out of health,
the workhouse ! This established order

a:

ig

01

Ii

L

0 1!1

s 1 ~..,
.ately impossible for aelotv price of rabonr to eee,iYine adequate encourageinent :111.
(ist •P"'l.lllanell.tly Will; a iliLch ptice of prmisions. Celt...ire, its ••effect won's! he to reieler bread
glaiece es souls tables a eouiparisou' bet meen . c
cheaper and more etteely in Free ; end it he ould
'ages and the price of provisions, which he held not maintain its expediency in this' puha of vir•v,
be would be conteet ti)i'7l)4ll(l,im the intelea e aim
his hand, would illustrate these fact s.• The Hon.'
gaiter: In tills View he woule caicithele that tee
ent.•ltere reae severel assages, from which it
profits of agriculture must nearly come up to tee
PPeared that the price p
for- weevil-mg muslies at
s
'lasgoiy, on air average for the last 25 years, was profits of industry •
in the other mode of con:-
Odeper ell, evhile the averaee price of Corn was meree and manufactures: He seid nearly, be-=
cause it would be admitted that the probes of ca-
l. is• Bd. The Member for Glaseow had told him
ca-
•sat this was at . fair price for labour, when such pital and industry expended on agricelture were
not generally equal eo those of commerce and
'as the price of grain. ' r(), the Weaving of jac.•
manufactures, though ;the superior conifoles end
onots they got only 7d. an ell, when the price of
security which attended the pursuits of agrico
al-
lai" was 41. ii• 81. Let us now consider what
cure might be supposed to make up for the deli-
"eel the iocreesing of the price of grain • will
ciency. It was evident, however, that. in every
'aye altinmeimmFaetut•es. :Altitotieh it must be
case agriculturists must have a fair semmiermaitigs
(itnitted that by means of terantl machinery and
price for their skill and their • capital ; and it
.11. g establishments we had brought certain ma-
le
itlfaCtllrt,•,s to the benrht of perfection, yet we the policy was to encourage importation from
Ngla to be awire that a period was arriving. whatever quarter, what then was to become of the
home agriculturist ; ana dot not thereby render.
`Bert a meierial chenge will be brought about in
'eir circulation. He had had opportunities of ourselves dependent for subsistence On the caprice
,`'skin" with a Gentleman who bad
or the policy dottier nations ? The wealth and.the
.eution to the Manufactures of Trance, • and whol population of a country, as compared to others;
'vas astoeished at the veryu er
tht them to in that eat success end hue' were the natural limits of the export of grain. There
Pruvement they had hro
; were also other causes avising from the policy or
:
li?ltetry, It was well known, that .not only in ; impolicy of different Administrations. In this
country, for instance, up to the year .1764, we
thr3nee, hut in many other countries of Europe, :
in the habit of exporting to the amount of
h ; greatest desire was shewn to' rival us in our
were
il'Acill'a me nufactures. The Hon. Gentleman ' 600,000 qtitieters of grain-annually : but the policy
'en entered into a series of arithmetical calcu-
of this country then underwent a change, which
lations, to ehow the superiority whiCh the foreign encouraged other countries we heti been in the
artisans bell over tine British manufacturer, in habit of supplying to raise sufficient for their own
wants ; : and in the year 1774,
the export was stop-
c°''scfpience of the cheap and regnlar price of the
fleet ped altogether, and foreign Corn was admitted
"'tries of life on the Continent; and the infe-
evhet) the price was forty shillines per quarter.
hh!ere -he drew was, that the dieadvantage ender
The effect of this was, that the scale was com-
iniclethe latter labotired would rendeis the maim-.
„„e. If, pletely ttirned against us, and we had.beeim anent-
4elltrilne CoineetitiOn a. most severe
%aid he, \'Ott eeise the price of provisions, you porting country for tl•le last 20 years. If eye con-
Ittlece."atily raise.theprice of- labour : if you raise, tinned to depend on foreign - countries for •-so
lie price otelehour, you necessarihr injure .your large a portion of our supplies, what
.was to
hinder France from sluing as she did in 1764,
Zarnmfactnring interests. Bat the whole argu- ;
that all her Corn exported shall
fit might be said to. centre in .this itnportant e ana saYing
be introduced-in French shippitig ? What was to
Ivzeitm that do what )7(s:a will, time price of labour ;
i hinder other countries from saying•the same thing?
'fuel ulalways he higher here than on time Continent;
Thus should we be placed in a state of double de-
thiS is"the strOngest ar...rn men t that can be
pendence, both as to the export of our manu-
ls).rftathetl against increasing' ftme rice of provie
•")I's• crb, Hon. Gentleman here read some pa- l factures to those countries, and.to the import of
It'itfrs from )1 Pamphlet by Mr. Malthus, in mnll)urts their corn. He contended dint the price of bread
would he rendered cheaper and more equable, on
snare opinion.) He thought Gentleine» must be
subject
that time effects of this measure inust• be to time whole, by a proper encouragement of our
own ag
liTeet the Helaine. ‘titre we to become, for the
richest country in the world • to time
eZ ilitY of being actually starved, if it does not ' sake of telnputahvt4eapness, dependent on lo-
e • ail• the i : : You eat". reign core ; was its:•not evident that any alarm as
Otovismons it consumes.
tt• provisions from abroad when you, wanted to the supply—as to the arrival of the Baltic fleet
en fit4' ants alnie prevents you front getting them fur instance, would exorbitantly enhance the
see "1".1 The.situation of this country is, that price of grain, and thus produce •the greatest ("k-
-it_ stands in the midst of all other countries who tress ? (Hear l) The price of corn must neces:
time s watoing to supply leer. We might, on sarily be high in this country, from the extent of
asu ' the principle,:be alarmed!' .est we should want . taxation with which it was burtheue4 : but-this
we aelleHY_(?f hemp for the use of our Nay ye .but need not edam] the manufacturers with the fear of
.wittl
hetihat we are
and have
alway
:been supplied being driven out of foreign markets ; for he would
,•np, thou.', ~,' •not oduee Our assert, that the average price to which it was now
geoereohieli
__, , edo
let es
not .• t.totuation has made us commanding : proposed to raise gtain, was not higher in pro-
not 1 tuake eeperiments to change tile 'co'to- portion to that of France than it was 50: years
: e thraet • ago. In illustration of this, the Hon. Member.
aglocultened• . et•.oi the coitntry, for the sake of
our en wealth . 'This' 'has' been the; result of ; quoted some of the statements in the speech with
ennercial wealth. which the Ahls'•;•- . . introduced othe •
; Icirsthe produce of -cow- 1 . e noatcsToeu
melte fosters a
ture, while, hnd eidarges time prodece of agricul- 1 fthmeet on the eorn trade to the FrenCh Legislae
arrest the er0,Y..9-lakine. such a change, we ne y
a ture. in this prolet, the Abbe stated. the average
leen. Ge 1 etess of
our national wealth. The price of corn in France, front the year 1756 to
le„th ,11t.telltan continued: to descant •at some 178 S, at 255. 6d. Ditriag 'the seine vriod the
tended Illustratiou of .this principle, and cone aVev;!ge price ill Legland was 465. Nov the
toted .. that if -things were lett to their own na- avcrage price in France was 455.: nod if the pre-
ter_
auPeretion, There -ounid be 90 &mint of the sent plopoiition_Rassed into a law, lie
_would take
in ent prosperity of the country. lie was the average price at 80s. Here, then, there was
are
vithat in agriculture as. well as in cons- little variation in the proportions
; and if our
metre.
and
..ea sodden changes sometimes took place, manufactures flourished aseney did during the for-
that they might be attended with injury.-- mei' period, what was therein the ecmmparison to
ear
_;7°re, if any temporary measure were adopted induce any alarm as to theicefrosperity now ?
e '`• neneficiel mu •it [rye la- sup- Ire nee . should e is (hear !) Time Abbe also exited that he proposed
siert 1, •
• 'la it seemed h'l that ' - 'I H
Getiti_nia . to a n theprice a' .1 • • • • should
toe Root Ilona ;
le es would aim at making this e perruanient 50 shillinge.
This, Lie stated,. the French nmanu-
ase One ofAr, - - fit • : .•.. . c . •
eia,ns . , t the cesets to IS, t.u.ii oilmen fact trier could hear sif it rose higher, the work-
,"° . have mistaken the restrictions for a cause ; enan wool 1 feel tlic effect:of-it; a moderate price,
` (n' wo . •
,ti I sPulty. It behoves etas to sleety them ; exempted from great vicissitudes, was best for
lat the ease i. r,.. , mGet-ent, and that it is by time that class of society who were not usually pel-
t" ineinle of fr • • •
jest .(1 t t et trade that our interests trill be sessed of Aufticielit proridence to guard against its
.for the I'leel. It would he. utterly impossible effects. Should the, price (O. grain fall greatly, he
.e.ea, . geneeal wealth of this country to he in-. added, they might indeed he enabled to maim-
.ie ed, With:nit the general healthof l lel f• • •-.i. e oe but .p • •,• or 1
,it.. ti ,:e e
li,
ere =4l particular being increased along with agriculteirist would eet be able to purchase' their
e a Ivoutrl therefore sa to tit H 'by -• • I- His Bonoureble Friend (Mr. Phillips)
y e euse, pem- goo( e.
etverine in this e course, and. not. in the wrong• seemed to think that the poorer districts of this
fare;o▪ e,,:s )(teheepereuing, you will consult the wet- conutrei which had been brought into cultivation
t the .nation tit large; and upon allshouldC'
the be abandoned, and give way to the rich
gt.nunds he had •
~,,e,t..,R.,,_stated, fie deemed it- necessary to and fertile districts of Flenders end France. He
"(etht 1.1 eie assent from the measure. (Mr. W.) thought very differently.; Was not the
lllr. AVESTErN set out with CO .s li '
:gerit,ra„ . . " ntinc. ng, that borne - market fdr our own neeenfactures better
_be faah utility to the agricultural (interests would than theforeign ?—(Hear!)---flight we not at arty
en_,'• ny Iro!lC•lnere than by• the manufacturing time be depriyed la I the former, though we should
u wnrkineclosesthe *
Atte „jut ~ of community. He thought ,at all times be secure of the latter ? lii this, as its
tinge
Ise did well last year it) postponing for a ; many timings, we might sacrifice something of ex-
:ttt: e consiot•ration of this question, because ' tent to secueh:v. A great deal had been sma about
~,jait::s gotwas more importeet than to convince the ' landholders reducing their rents ; but suppose they
lirattee, the people et large of the necessity of : did I t
.l.', welt_ would be the coesequence ? If his' rents
fit t, the agricelture of the country. It was, ; were redOced one half, he would he apt to say to
(the
Prevention
extremely elitlicult to -satisfy them, that ! the 'tradesmen, " you- must strike off ybur
steediryention of . the importation of grain under ledger the half of Your charges against me ;"
•'' etrcemest• :•=eenf...r .. aneeS was necessary to the general ' and the tradesthan, in his turn, would probably be
ea "e of the country ; for all modes.. Calculated - obliged • off halfof his ••k 'Ti to win r ;ot men. ne
resider food 1
;for
pi . anti clouting as cheap as possible • manufacturer of -coarse wanted cheap . labour,
etar:"e esent appeared eligible' to the nianufac- ; but his workmen would look very strangely if told
; •I', Srthemeef` 1 • 1 1 ,
trydifie t.), they ling it re tee tong run Iteve a • that ; they were ouly to have alf sveges. He
rent effect T 1 • •
.ge of . • • , It pi oposition which had ; would assert, also,- that at time price of 80s. per
e
kiee net night submitted to the House by a Right i quarter, I ' II I •• sclasses t the menu acturnme ant a )outine
e. f 0 1. Gentleo •01 •
'os • lan 1. r. Robinson) was not new in i of this .country had enjoyed, and would enjoy,
Principle.: • • • . ,
reade
e_,,
e, it was only following up 4 system al- ! More of the comforts of life than the people did iu
ed ef
tisiel. bbshed.in this Country. By the laws enact-
those countries whence we drew corn ;—than in
reign of T.,SI r William,• I
deed, w, - - Ine elle principle, in- , Poland, for instance, were the people fed on the
leas,. as cerried•to I much =i.e. t•••t • t ; the• of the grain.ll• 1 t the English I. bourer aaer (x til refuse: me lc no. a a
tnanment of that Pendtime, to render thecountry inde- he would ask, command more of time comforts of
• eal of for he -
et esee_ , cteu supply, encouraged the export life, than in France, Poland, ►Pruseia, and other
uoytho hy hountie-
S, 41Ltheir duties on thesitn- ! countries whence Corn was imported ? The Hon.
. r "ahem!' of ~., •
prehibie wain were in fact equivalent to a ; Member next proceeded to assert, that rent torm-
' fere . tune The Right Hon. Gentleman, there- ; ed only a small portion of the price of grain. He
. ,in DrollOSi, lhg in tc_ ,- , -.mg his resolution, was wily tread- i entered into several calculations to spew, that
'Aid eat :_':_ Path of experience, and his measure ' in a rotation of four crops, including
,turnips,
alvhieh itta) any thing like so far as those laws under ; &c. the average value of the produce : would be
yeti/ere celnanulactures and the industry of the' , equal to three quarters of o heat per acre en-
y tlil'ov. 4 •
- on more than half a century— • ttally. Supposing, therefore, rents to be com-
• ta (heart)---Th.,
e ler,. his was not, therefore; a novelty in pletely abolished, this would only reduce the price
a(ta .h'slationof 1
ptin„ . the country ;
.1C was • merely i of the quarter about lOs. which even then woohl
tette e principles and i ,
it 'try ha('
0► • maws under which the ; not brine us to an equality, with Lime prices of lo-
,t, Was et• , ' ""tiriSlied, to the situation in which , eeign Corn. Even the ct:niplete iennihilation of
.lat the present placed. His Hon. Friend -Sant, rent, -therefore, tvould not- enable the farmer to
1141)ee
the
Present measure, if adopted, would ade. !: compete with grain of foreign growth. :So norch
%oa e. Price of the necessaries .of late—. .fur the effeCt of relit on time orice of graiin. , lie
`llt co " •
twine, would conteed, that by - would toritend•that the proposition ietrociticechby
,

tilt Right Him. Gentleman was old.; follip.v.ing
the po;ity of our ancestors with cautious steps,
The average price ot wheat for'the hst.2o years
-

c>ur,

ne farmer MIS 11 itt 1 p )or's rate iserc.
calculated on the price of breun. . The various
articles and utensils required b!,--,the farmer wits.:
fall in price like other things; iron, puriiculari,
had taller' conside.rabl'y since the peace. As to
the effect of the taxes on the larwer:Afe.,\Venii

%%la's .80s. alum-ter ; for tte first 19 'vearii of dint
I.l..Tititi, the average rive was 7:35. ilTheat

!raiment was tmld for ; hut taking the iucrease
u taxatinu anti every Clin else into a'ccount, he
tliought SU,, the in;vest at w'nich the import price
should he fixed. It did not follow, however, that

the Price of grain would be regulated by that
amount : on .the contrary, 're should find, on
looking back to former periods, that. the' market

pi ice was sometimes only 305. when the im-
port price was 625. Ile! ti,!so adverted to the
great crop of 1813, as a stifficient proof of
the capacity of the country to supply itself. In
Februaty 'of that year, flour was, delivered by con-
tract or Deptford, at .120 s. per sack ; but ill the
November following, it was uelivered at the same
place at the low Flee or 60s„ while at the same
time the country was exporting to a considenible
extent,- This 'sufficiently proved, that by proper
encouragement to our ()ten agriculture, we bad
the means of snpplyilig ourselves without foreign
corn. It was true that Olt! itnnort of foreign grain
was at all times Meonsi,lera.ble, when compared
with the consumption of the country ; but there
was this material inconvenience from leaving im-
port free, that it damped the spirit of enter-
prize iu the British farmer, inasmuch as the ex-
tent to which foreign corn could come into com-
petition with him in the home .Imo-I:et was al-
ways unknown.-- (Hear ). Unrestricted im-
port would injure and depress the British agricul-
turist, while at a time when you most needed it,
it might not be in your power to procure it. It
was at present in the contemplation of the awl--
culturists of France and Flanders, to derive a new
stimilus from the market of this country, but
who could look with complacency to such a sup-
ply ? This country, with all its blirthellS, was the
admiration and envy of foreign nations, and
least of all should ,we render ourselves dependent
on France—(l-Icar, bear !) nor would this endan-
our manufactures. There were other markets to
which they might look—those of South America
for instance; and the approaching emancipation
of that country would afford ample scope for
British manufacturing industry.
Sir FLiF.Dr,RICK FLOOD felt deeply interested,
as be trusted the whole country must, in the pro-
motion Of domestic industry. As the country of Ire-
land increased in agriculture, so would Ireland
to the inOependenee of England, and •of the Eat-
pire. Be thought the rate proposed a moderate
one ; anti that it was not the interest of the, ma-
nufacturers to have the agricultural interest cut
do,.r o.

stated respecting arable land, that, exelasive
the Psoperty Taxs the increase on a farm of 50if/.
a-year was front 15,1. to 251. ; and he enumeraqd a .
variety of. particulars : and this statement gave t!)
the fanner a livery servant and his-horse., •Ild
wished to know to what extent the expeuses of
the farmer could be greater efts!r reduction of the
price of Corn than now Mr. Maxwell thoueht
80s. would be enough, and Crabtr& rho i4lat
725. a !saving price. Several thought 7.2, 73, •oe
755.: but the outside was 80s. supposing all rents
and charges the same. All, however, .agreed that
• many charges must fall. The breakbas ap of the
army bad certainly poured a considerable pOpalaS
tion on the country, which deranged iiiiindiate
calculations. The present state of lab inter
therefore, made this the most
improper time for a
permanent regulation. Change in rent was of,high
importance. Listen to some, awl it was no-
thiug but taxes ;
.but• they made a small addi-
tion, when rents were, in factoloobleds . Take
off that immense increased rent,- and. see if
that would not operate a great relief to the far-
mer. Bents on the average' were double'd ; and the
present,object was to continue exorbitant rents
but if Gentlemen read the evidrence, they would
sec the fallacy of the proposition. It was said
that we could produce ellough for ourselves, and
that we could produce a great deal more than we
do. He did not disbelieve this. Through the
privileges the landholders have had for years piist,
they have cultivated 'faults which ,in his opinion
should not have been cultivated ; furzes., and
heaths', and rocks, the cultivation of which cost
so much as to make bread too dear, and make it
at is. 6d. instead of Is. But ‘'as it worth while
to try an experiment on the great and general iir-
terests of the community for the sake of compen-
sating individual undertakings ? Should' the mans
pay a great _price for-bread on that account It
would derange other beneficial parts of the ge-
neral system. Woods were •in consequenc'e
grolitsed up, and thence timber was increased in
price., anti thus shipping and building of all
sorts were awed. A premium was given for
forcing Corn, to torn out timber. So, again,
ploughing up fine pastures made butcher's meat
the dearer. It was much better to leave industry
to its own efforts,' and not press systems. Such
was the system of the most respected writers oft
the subject. As to supplies from foreigo emml-
tries, and- the, strong objections to them, he
thought that the dispensations of PrOvideThae were
of the greatest bensifit to maokind, by the ex-
change of the different prodders of ditr,:rnit coun-
tries. The• object with each lhottld ;to cOtt-
suit what is suitable to its respecti‘e soil. As to
the probability of other nations Shutting thebs
doors againit us, that most be looked at on sthe
ground of experience. The country most tipen to
such fears was Holland, yet there the price of
cons was merely the averioee of Eurojie. France
was much dwelt upon Holt. Members, -yet Aee
had received little Isom thenee except this last year,
when England had a bad harvest, and France a good
one. Otte supply was generally from the Baltic, anti
front various other quarters. iaking our experieOcie
from our suppliesfrom Foreign Powers, was it likely
'to see ourselves again soon in such a state as we
were in-during -the asceodancy tsf Buonaparte,
whose•whole object was to restrict our trade, but -
Nrhich would be found iii this point quite ineffec-
tual ? . During 20 years of French -domination,
we imported three times as moch graiu as we bad
front the year 1697. The facts spewed the
grotandlessuess of fret's on:this • subject. If •we
could send money, we were sure to have Corn.—
This was clearly proved in the most trying cir-
camst.aneei., lie looked not to mob popularity ;
but he believed all classes of society best. consi-
dered liy a careful review of the subject. The
present endeavour was to prop and bolster up the
artificial state of things which exists, and which
it would he contrary to the interest of the country
to agree to. He was rather inclined to. propose
the rate of 75 shillings for twelve months, and to
let that rate fail back two shillings per annum till
it should descend to the present price. Pt ilapa
the Committee might. sit pro forma on Monday,
and then he should propose counter resolutions to
that effect.
Mr. itowsaid„ that all that he had beard or
learned on the sunject onfy confirmed his opinion.
That. he had not spoken, allow ed of no inference
as to his sentiments. He should be sorry if any
thing prevented a full and free discussion of the
subject ; and he should lie ready on a future op-
portunity to deliver his opinions fully.
Mr. 13 RAND had, listened with all ddigence. The
argument on the diminution of the farmer's charges
was an erroneous one. A yast.number of the po-
pulation were concerned in this measure, particu-
larlylin Ireland. What was the fartnet's situation
when he could not employ them ? The Overseer
sent them to him, and they were paid half by the
farmer, and half by the poor's rate. To tvliont
did the land belong ? To the poor, mho ,must be
distressed, from the want of means of employing
them. As to the authority of Mr. Malthus,' who
had been quoted, that Gentleman had published a
book within ten days, which he was sorry he-had
not put in his pocket, ao'd in which he Stated that
it ,:was now his opinion that sonic ,restrctions
ougsht to he imposed on importation. If the oh-
ject of the pleasure was not to make pricey low,
it certainly was to prevent them from ever being
excessively high, and from leaving the country
at the risk of foreign supply it was to make our
own agriculture independent. Foreigners might
not be able to supply us. The, Honourable
Member mentioned several, peculiarities, in the
mode of raising Corns such as top dressings,
which occasioned .an increase of one-fifth in
the produce of Corn in some counties ; bat
how could it be supposed that foreigners would
raise a superfluity qt Corn to supply us, no-
less they knew that •we gave up Eagland
to necessity of such a supply-) The tpleatiOn
ought to be argued with temper, captions, and in,-
partiality : it was of the highest importatice to the
dearest interests of the country, and deserved the
most sel•ious and deliberate consideratioN.
his opinion, 80s. would he the proper sum to fix on 5

-Mr. BARING said, that on qtiestions of various
descriptions, there seceard to be diiierent and dis-
tinct interests in the llottse and the country ;
though truly understood, such questions ought to
be considered reply as to ho'w they bore upon the
real wdfate of the country at large. The prac-
tice., however, was, for each side Co take a narrow
view of the question ; whether by the agricultu-
rists, or mantilactitrers, or commercial people. It
was no wonder that some _took a particitlar 'line,
since the chic' right of sitting in that House de-
pended :flpon individuals being, to a certain ex-
tent.; lauded proprietors. It Was now stated that
the public opinion had considerably changed; but
he could, not see on what grounds. Last year
there was an abundance of petitions on the sub-
jeet,against, any alteration of the Corn Laws.
That they were not now repeated, lie ascribed to
the people's not thinking the repetition of them
necessary : the City of London had indeed peti-
tioned ;-but he trusted that the former petitions
would lose none of their diect. In country towns,
two attempts had been made at counter petitions—
at Watuninster anal Maidstone; but those who:pro-
prpied there had been hooted Out of the public
places of meeting, and had been obliged to with-
draw to taVerns. No Gentleman who duly re-
Elected-on' the subject could think, that the ob-
ject of the nreastiee was ty produce low prices..
On the contrai-7, the intention cleanly was, to
produce steady prices, or rather steadier prices
than
,those which now exist.. The object, in
fact,' was hig:i pike. Ile had recommended,
' that ill bringing on this subject, Parliament
should not be culled on for a decision on the
sudden. In the present situation of affairs, it
Was quite premature to call on Parliament, on the
sudden to, fix any thing like a permaneut system.
The country was as yet in an unsettled state,
which made it impossible to say what price was
necessary,and suitable. One particular feature of
the moment was to be found in the extent of paper
circulation, 'and the number and Credit of country
banks, to which the people in the country attached
much coosideratioo in these matters. One of the
most Sensible of the Witnesses examined before the
Committee, Mr. Webb, of Selisbury, said, that
the rise in the prise of eol'll was more owing to
paper circulation than to taxes, of which the
pressure cook( not tiow be immediately reme-
died ; and therefore the prices could not be lime-
diately regulated. At the same time he was per-
fectly aware that the agricultural interest la-
boured under very great difficulties, and that it
was the duty of that House to consider them
fully, and to remedy them if possible. But a dis-
tinction must be drawn between those difficulties
which were temporiiry and those which required a
permanent core. The remedy at present wanted
was a temporary one. Agricultural persons were
certainly as well entitled to relief as those en-
gaged iu manufactures and merchandize :abut how
were 411cy to obtain it % It might be done by
setting the import price at a certain rate, to de-
cline annually. Suppose it was taken at 755. and
then to fall back at the rate of 2s. a year, till it
fell to the presEnt price ; or supposing that mode
qualified, by taking it at SOs. 0r755.; and if
at the latter, tharit should be kept so for a year
before it fell ? Would not much be done towards
the desired relief by such means, aided 'by the di-
minution or termination of paper curreocy, the
i lowering of tents, and'the decrease of taxation ?
There existed now' a considerable alarm from per-
sons not knowing /what was to, come upon them.
Mr. Webb's evideuce stated, that,if Wheat fell to
what it 11' a S in 1792,' all the attendaet expenses
Might he -expected to fall in proportion, excepting
the taxes. There could be no doubt that the in-
crease of prices had ineicased greatly from the
increased price of land. One great expense of

In .