The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-16 00:00:00

Wag serry to he obliged to say that, judging from the speech
Sof
stthr,e,nl-,lofn;eillirgaironct the Member for elarylebone, there was
in that House against the Irish proprietors,
and a 'desire to inflict on them what was called stringent
Measures. Ile was sorry to say that he had often seen in-
-I;heset where charges were brought forward in that House
!jeig indisednals, and those charges were afterwards cur.-
;"red as affecting a whole class.—( Hear, hear ) He was
ii:4rY that the Right Hon. Baronet, in his observations, had not
t'n,lSed fairly upon both sides of the question, hut had, without
amnlil means to inform him-elf of tie correctness
HQthe statements, openly inflietell upon two iethvirleals
not light panisliment of denouncing them in that House.
":%d in his possession a letter from a Mr. Leader, a gentle-
bMao 'n Kanturk, stating that at the presentment sessions there
tu. )1- were voted for the public works, and that, too, at a
when it was believed that the whole sum would have to be
repaid. The writer went on to say, that Sir B. Hall had been
rillinfertneel in the statement be made the other night in the
0 "ter and that in the union of Kanturk there was not any
One single individual possessing a property of 6,0001. per
104:le'ns After the able statements which had already been
trouble
'e on the subject it would not Le necessary for him to
lees , the 'louse any further. He believed that no
50,7 alember entertained any objection to the mea-
es hen before the House, althoueh they were calelated .
to entail such severe burdens upon Irish property.
tidee'ornnaissioners said, that at that moment there was a de-
thaet" spirit, of improvement abroad, and since, the furnishing of
1, report the same fact had been abundantly coefirmed. He
snxious that the House should take care that that spirit of
";Prnternent should not be checked or crushed, because in
t,ititeeitie Ireland e. ould be lost, If. an thine were wantin to
to o,r 'end in the scale nations it would be an incitement
and therefore he prayed the House not to act on
r,,-,astily formed and crude opinions, nut to give by a system
OSsi-e"' door relief to the poor of that country an whichme-it:tees and thus neutralise the whciesome feeling had
re,6"7 so extensively spread throughout the country.. He
~,.,retted (last the Go:ernment had not promoted this spirit, by
ts,-Juine to the measure lately introduced for the purpose of
th-ssTllng industrial improvement in Ireland. He would, with
18;,'eave of the House refer to certain statements given in
el", whic sh owed the number ote populaton leach ot
oreidistrietsh of Ireland, the house acchommodatiion, thee extent
stse'rld eeltivated and uncultivated, &c. He found, for in-
',Wiles, that in the county of Mayo ttsere were 1,360,000 acres
to,,d %Population (excluding towns of 370,0; 0. The accom-
sod 'ti'n was divided into four classes of houses,
The the returns gave the means of these families.
result showed that the valuation of Mayo,
t 55.99 !li.the
5; county levee were 39,2e9/. ; leaving a net
ni<M°l2(io.o- 62/. The lumber of families were 67,000 ; the
'l. of individual. 370,000; and of these 255,987 above
tl4„;e,sars of age could not read or write. The number of first
''"ses was 217 ; of the second class 312 ; of the third
bind°er2eO; and of the fourth 3,8;t3; thus showing that the
xll a would fall uon those least ably to bear it. The Hon.
stein'stu.er then proceeded to illustrate his argument by similar
that •KA from different parts of the country. He considered
14,4 was the first duty of Government to take temporary
esm.'!lres for the relief of distressed and starving people ; anri.he
rie,afltli regretted that the Ministry, instead of introducing
Iselin 'itres calculated to stimulate and vivify the industry of
11)4, had in the measure before the House, disappointed
etlo'9ntry by a promise of relief, which would end only in
I"
'lst been
JOHN O'CONNELL, was sorry that this measure had
coeen introduced at a period when the minds of men were
them' and when they would be prepared to temperately discuss
for;tnPortant question of the poor-law, instead of bringing it
teoa,d at season when the crisis of a starving population dis-
N`IM their attention, and required their fullest consideration.
to b4t the report he had received from Ireland, there appeared
yes. "re prospect of a more direful famine occuring next
the fa,fld Government ought therefore to take steps to prevent
Pel t amity bearing down the landlords, rather than to corn-
ye to maintain an extensive system of out-door relief.
ntaige°lght, moreover, when it was too late to remedy the
ride n, Government would regret that they had not pro-
:leth seed to ensure a sufficieny of autumnal crops. On the
etat4o" March, 20 per cent. of the labourers at present
and -,3ed on the public works would be di-missed,
this there was nothing for them to fall back upon,
Iniset,"et would have the effect of increasing the
tlt and suffering of Leland. A good deal of land would be
tic:nether thrown out of cultivation in consequence of the tle-
ill,' of Government net to allow the holders temporary relief,
Were bee as fully convinced that the measures of Government.
s°his inefficient to meet the emergency, he should give
temeiPport to the Bill before the House, because he was glad to
4110 anything which was calculated to prevent some of his
t 4,w; beings from dying of starvation. Still, he felt
tetei'nned the measure would never succeed. Its direct
ilre.-neY was to encourage rather than suppress pauper-
esdand he was very much afraid it would ultimately
early Itn augmentation of the paupers of the country, which
aMounted to between two and thi ee millions. But he
oi still stronger objection to this Bill. It must inevitably
‘Ol4ll. the small ratepayer. There were many industrious per-
kor In Ireland who contributes! towards the support of the
At*Peri IQ tile workhouses who themselves would be reduced to
*
to tot if they were called upon to increase their payments
hurrit Intain an extensive system of outdoor relief. He had a
feee°,er of letters in his possession, written by persons in dif-
too"' Parts of Ireland, complaining of the clause which
II to increase the number of ex-qtlicio guardians.
one of these letters he found that in one
snnee, the election of two gentlemen as ex officio guardians
Sir, refused, on account of their known liberal views, namely,
er "'M. Sommerville and the Marquis of Ileadtord. If the
Twits clause were carried, it would open the dome still fur-
!hter to religious dissensions, for in many parts of Ireland the
ot
..estants might predominate, while in another the Catholics
right be in the majority, and the result of the 'sassing of this
clause would be to increase religious dissensiona in Ireland.
'le did not wish to cast any slur upon those gentlemenou
bt
twhh o
*ere eligible to become es. ,llicio guardians. No
is
Were highly est:mable in tbeir pr rate characters as country
gentlemen, but they were but men, and he did not wish to
trust them with the power of limiting the operation of a bill
Which taxed themselves for the maintenance of the poor.
:ate the Noble Lord had called upon Irish Members, if they
4'41(1 do so, to propose a better measure. He was not pre-
tart'd to say that he was in possession of a better measure, but
sVb.he beer, asked to advise her Maj •ste's Ministers upon the
eriJeeets he would have recommi nded them to pass a very
oio"gent psior-la..v of a temporary. character.—( Cheers. ) The
leZ7dadeanced was no•hing mere than money extracted from
*itf,:s" Means of a measure passed n opposition to the
Lee e,flnl the Irish people He thought that a larger loan than
of j4,t.„,e advanced would have been nothing more than an act
it e.
At the time of the union of the two countries
c`Msidered that Ireland should not bear a ull
nit), '4 of the charge of the public debt, and the Act of
liobilitiexeressly enacted that
unlessoat ion ot. the taxes and!
Wes, toe'l should take place n the condition of Irelani
*ireb Permanentl • and materially improved. If there
spyhite'dthr,erefere, any meaning in words, he contended that the
e athament in 1616 most illegally and unconstio.ition-
Erezi),(4edr by means of the Consolidation Act, the liabilities
the illand, and which, it was expressly stated at the time of
thetprinns should not' be Jenne by Ireland. He thought,
le‘t
,nres that as some reparation for the injustice done, that at
wh(nne large loan should be made to Ireland. But, after
II it ~.at was the charity that had been afforded to Ireland ?
sirens al an actual grant, it would be no more than justice to
Wilbut it was nothing more than a loan, one half o: which
114:10,11anced upon the security of the property of Ireland, and
e "er seas to be re aid in of the taxation of the country.
tkl ~harite' of individuals in hest ountry had been most liberal
of te,„-aneworthy, but the charity (if such it could be called)
titG uflouse was of the most niggardly and beggarly descrip.
11,tel o"e thought that the loan ought to have been a great
elspo-rger than it was. The Government ought also to have
!!,iter ti.l% tax upon the rich absentee, and not attempte.d. to
the down the poor ratepayers of Ireland by the imposition
eeteorrflPoseel law. Irish Members had been taunted by the
,7 etc would the advocates of repeal do if the union
'nfotsrlealetl, ? Why, where was the lower depth to which that
ttav'tinate country Could have fallen than that which it has al-
' tttr" Nebed under the legislation of this country? If, how
14ie'itth, Could obtain the repeal of the union, they would
immediately. There were ample resources in Ireland
ben eeded to be developed, and which could be. applied for
tit h ,eat of the country if there were a Paliamenr sitting the:e.
,t4o heard mere than once in that House a great talk to
`llOO2-"heet that taxation should he increased in Ireland. He
tkle'..,tt however, that it would be much the better course to
titatte to remOve the feelings which had been created in
~.littt'l,‘;"ee of the measures passed for Ireland during the
"' theft years, by equalising the condition of the various classes
Ldrs Country.'l3RTEN AY felt great pleasure in being able to
,„egos '• Most cordial support to the measure before the
,tt; If he had looked at this measure unconnected with
41s t4jr tneasures which he hoped to see shortly laid upon
kb% e„ eof the House, he should feel indeed that it was a
'toe'," not entitled to, his support. He would impress upon
Itele,l'able Members connected with Ireland, the necessity of
"ng. not only as Members of that House, but also as
'''assip4-5' by every means to ameliorate the condition of all
With t °f the country. He would ask what were they to do
head
existing state of things in Ireland ? The Noble Lord
'`el'atsursad of the Government had plot that question to the
%,,ef,"°n that had waited upon him. He (Lord Courtenay)
withed that he had yet heard no satisfactory reply to it.
0101(140rd to the Labour-rate Act of last cession, he was
IDere,,,, to say that though he could not altogether
L'ese of it, he thought it had been the
horror of saving thousands of people from the
Ptt starvation. The system of out-door relief proposed
reesent Bill was, in his opinion, sufficiently hedged round
%e 'le'is'ietions to prevent any abuse. He thoueht, however,
;eel .eit Mille would be to limit the out-donr relief to the
''r „end infirm so as to snake room in the house
ors 'e able-Ix:died, If they did this the law of
ie, l would be rendered
giveuncessary —(Hear., hear.) He
rlN'rted th
e propoSltion as hole, because It appeared to
It Irsught with the greatest good to the people of Ireland.
I Would
teol.o operate as a tax upon absenteeism. and incite the
ttite Proprietors to give additional employment to the elesti-
041',etosiern. their estates.' Without pledging himself. to. all.e
the Bill he would give his cordial support to the principle
die
Nese ENHAAI NORREYS did not agree in the opinions
ter in"ed, by Mr. John O'Connell, with respect to the man
sill • "'lnch ex-tleicio guardians where constituted to the
Ithhet'reltiiirk,,tistead of exciting it would be the means of allaying
regfs differences that the Hon. Gentleman anticipated
0f"ld excite. He then proceeded so advert to the state-
.
r lees, °ll' Benjamin Hall with respect to Mallow and other
th, Ind contended that England herself was to blame
for n 1 they ate of things that wits to be eeen in Ireland
first •Y 3 of Henry the Second to the present time, since
thu nem. -"flexion of the two countries, nothing but misery
e 5
all" e"ion have been the portion of Ireland. What were
"es '" landlords but what England had made them ? It
se
Isel,llrY well for Eneland to snake the landlords
ei7t the-4%,11er scape-goats. Now, he would ask,
141 Yro,k 0'• been always making them do her
eoh --(Laughter ) As long as they could, they
penelehde, Irish landlerds. their tools.. As (amongoos ahe could
;tee Irish
ocl'les ehscinad sowed religious dissensions
. 'Xese• enabled the landlords, who were her instruments,
s:htlitat stun„leioni over the leaseholders, and
of ete.pet
ec,rnt
50, , r'ra, hut now when the pockets h I 11.1
stm we`rdY were touched, they turned round and said,
ketlet of thingos not. want you any longer." Look at the
14 • y 4 which has sprung up untieer your mismanagist-
. tiodenied must cow bear the responsibility of all these eri s.
LigliaeadetOphatically that the guardians of the poor in Ire-
btl ,rtre to cheat. the poor, as had been imputed to them.
iti irte'l the poor-laws fell upon the oceupier—( Hear) ;
.
poe,ebier 444 they fell upon the landlords alone, and not the
tOtioe oy(:_that there was a material difference between the
s4,Poes. wer-englisli and Irish landlords; but if the support of
re, 'd not re made a national charge, the Irish landlords
I • hp4tented force the objections they had urged, and would be
h eihri,n. bear their fair share in the support of their poorer
strart! show the importance of rating electoral divisions.
es,;,leitow.l7 'net the poor-rate of the town of Mallow was 2s.
th Only lid. inChurchtown, an agricultural village
thaltl.terueeut' sh. Owing the impoliey of union rating ; and by
• tt dee e with which he had been furnished, it appeared
dtint, e ,hat're_r,sOns who had been cleared from estates must be.-
) te,iit:eigr:ibaihet to e the Mallow district. He had felt it his
es e uhle the House with these remarks, becau-e it was
compelled to be absent when the clauses
0 -ils earn, •
te_, vv._ • minutely under consideration.
,4leeted 'eth",..;Y, denied that the landlords; of Ireland had
lief thet the 1, rant
as landlords and as guardians of the poor,
• %, the h,l 'tad given niggardly contributions towards the re-
reur,
ism compelled them to resort to the public works.
T:re

HINAL

of Lords,
recorder of
iblin, at •
>f cricatual

ions Urn
tiou of th•
[e would,
divir atior?
I a,
he
thout
4h°
Dp to

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