The Sun.
London, England, 1815-04-12 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, TUESDAY, APRIL 11.
The proceedings on Mrs. and Mr. Lee's Pentium, ~•ere
postponed till Monday. •
The Poor's Exiitnees Return Bill, and others, were brought
up from the Commons, and read a first time.

Mr. JAMESON'S PETITION.
Earl STAN HOPE moved the °mkr of the Day
for the consideration of the Petition of Mr. Jame-
son, writer to the-Signet: ''The Petition was read,
and stated' certain proceedings in the Court of
Session, and a Petition by Jameson, against an
interlocutor of that Court, which, on account of
Matter there contained, was considered as a con-
tempt of Court-; that the Court, consisting of
the whole 15 Judges, passed an aot of sedertmu
fur punishing him for this.contempt, and we think
the Petition stated that he was confined.
Earl STANHOPE proposed, that a copy of the
Petition he,sent to the Court of Session, with a
request that they.should send up the official docu-
ments noticed in the- Petition, and stated the case
of the Irish Judge Fox-as an authority for this
mode of procei.dink..
The LORD CHANCELLOR thought a much clearer
ground ought to be made out before they ought to
institute any proceedings against a Court of Jus-
tice, which for the sake not merely of the judges,
but the suitors, must have a power of punishing
contempts. In the case of Judge Fox, that judge
himself petitioned and prayed for a copy of the
petition against him. In the case of an EngliSh
judge they might, as he apprehended, proceed by
address to remove him, if necessary, but their
might be a doubt as to a Scotch judge who held
the situation ad ritain out culpam, as they called
it. They might he impeached certainly if a pro=
per case were made out, but here no grounds yvere
laid for any proceedings.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE thought the Court
of Session had proceeded in an informal way in
punishing a contempt by act of-the fifteen Judges,
a contempt ought to be punished only by that di-
vision against which the contempt was committed.;
but he only objected to this in point of form.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said, that it might be
afterwards considered whether the Court acted
formally or nr*, but they ought not to proceed on.
this Petitibn.

Lord MELVILLE likewise Objected to anv pro-
ceeding, and the motion was negatived without a
division.

STANHOP2 then moved for copies of all
acts of sederunt on the subject of conteinpts, as,
connected with the Petition. This motion was in
the same manner negatived.—,-Adjournecl.

HOT-AE oF COMMONS.
. ~INsoLyEN7I. DEBTORS.
Mr.—.scriF,ap,t,o6T Jose, pursuant to a notice
. . .

- .
which -be "giv .ri, to move for leave to bring itt
'a Bill tO law relative to Insolvent
Debtors. The two great -objects which it alined
to accomplish was, to afford more relief to the
re-ally unfortunate debtor than he-could nose
. and to provide a greater punishment than was now
inflicted upon the dishonest and criminal debtor.
To the first branch of his Bill he anticipated no
opposition. Whoever had turned his attention
to the various subterfuges by which creditor was
d'ifrauded of his rights under the present system,
must admit that some amendment of that system
was necessary. For instance, there were many
persons now in prison, living luxuriously upon their
property, and enjoying all the comforts of life,
who refused to take the benefit of any insolvent
act, because they were determined not to pay
their debts. Such abuses ought not to be suffered ;•
and therefore one of the objects of the Bill would
be to give the' creditors the power, under such
circumstances, of compelling the debtor to sur-
render his property in order t.o satisfy, so far as it
might go, the just. claims upon it. Another ob-
ject of the. Bill would be to increase the
,punish-
ment of, those debtors who, from their Own vices
or their imprudence, jiad rendered themselves in-
capable of paying What they owed.
_To that part
there
_would perhaps 'be some opposition ; but in
the enactments he had framed it had been his most
anxious wish to distinguish between the unfortu-
nate and the prodigal debtor ; and the only prac-
ticable way of making that distinction, which had
occurred to him, was the adoption of some sort of
scale. For that purpose he had introduced the fol-
lowing one into his Bill. If a debtor could pay 15s.
in the poupd, he ought to be entitled to his im-
mediate .diKharge,.. after having been imprisoned
duriog th.e„term of three months, as prescribed by
the existlitOxt.-- It, instead of fifteen, • he was
able to.pay.anly ten shillings,he should then pro-
pose a longer period of imprisonment, certainly
, not less than twelve months. Those who by im-
providence had squandered away their property,
instead of paying their debts, or who had fraudu-
lently contracted debts, which they were never in
a condition entirely to pay, and who. therefore
were unable to pay more than five shillings in the
• pound, should be confined for twelve months in
prison, not with the. power of taking the rules,
but to be strictly kept within the walls of the pri-
son. Lastly, those who could pay nothing, and
who were consequently in a state of complete in-'
solvency, should be imprisoned at least two years.
Such were the principal features of his Bill. It
would of course occur to the House that many
individuals who could pay neither of the sums
mentioned in the preceding scale, might yet be
justly entitledjto lenity from their misfortunes;
and hence he intended to propose that it should
be open for any individual so circumstanced, to
prove before a competent jurisdiction that their
insolvency _was not the effect of improvidence or
dishonesty:. If that was clearly made out to the
satisfaction of the Court, he, might then be
discharged. with the consent of a majority of
his creditors.— There was another provision
of the Bill- to which he should shortly advert. It-
was a common practice among debtors in distant
parts of the country, to get themselves removed
by a Habeas Corpus to the King's Bench, and
then to apply for their dischage, calculating that
few, if any, of their creditors, would be at the
expense and trouble of coining up to London to
athpeoirwaeirtpluipcaotnioLhe
CHoeinur
okitio.k meant therefore
ettliiilledeti•ien?c
ocopiplfoesre
such
persons back to the county jsavtialiltouten,tiiikgaititplbaece.
t‘,vihoepre.
thet
o r credi-
tors, resmajorityded in
whosenumber n
interest
pose their liberation. He should not trespass

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knger. on the time of the House, but move for
heave to bring in fte Bill. • •
Mr.. IV: BATHURST seconded the motion.
Mr. HORNER e.xpressed his approbation of the
general principles of Lord Redesdale's- 4dr, but
tat the same time felt no objection to support the
Bill of the Hon. and Learned Member, sw,far as
it might really lro considered as.an -imendinent of
that Act. He decidedly cdndenmed, however, the
notion of punishing-a man for insolvency, except
where the fraudulent or dishonest motives were
mitt explicitly asr.ertained.
Mr. LOCKHART supported the motion, and es-
pctially approved of that clause which discrimi-
nated between the honest-and the dishonest -cre-
el Or.
Mr. ABRRCROMBIE opposed it, heeaus'e he
thought
,no case had been made out, which called
upon thellouse to alter the law as it now stood.
Mr. LluasT spoke in favour of the motion.
Mr. Scrjeabt BEST replied.
Mr. BARING regretted that more time bad not
been given for the trial of the original measure,
or at least that if any just cause of complaint ap-
peared ag-Ainst•it, that a Committee had not been
appointed to investigate the subject.
Leave was then granted to bring in the Bill.
Mr. P. GRENVELL postponed his notice relative
"to the payments of the • Bank in specie, •to to-
morrow se'nuight. _
Mr. WILDEaFoacn-gave notice that on Thurs-
day he would submit to the House a motion on the
subject of the three persons who, having been
condemned to the hulks for a violatinn of the law
relating to the Abolition of -the Slave Trade, had •
since been pardoned.
The Greenland Fishery Bill was read 'a
-second
time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow.
The Irish. Excise, . Irish Customs Tobaccu Duty,. and the ,
Poorhouse Bilts4 were.read a 'fbird time :mil passed.
The Irish Sugar Drawhach went through a Committee,
the Report'of which was ordered tube received to-morrow. •
TREATY OF •PEACE WITH AMERICA.

Mr. HART DAvrs,rose to move an 'Address to
the Prince Regent; on the conclusion of the Treaty
of Peace with America. , He trusted that there
were few .men in .the country who we not peel
suaded that the war with that country was.un-
provoked on our part. It bad been waged, not
for aggrandisement Or vengeance,- or the diffusion
of. our military glory. Great . Britain stood Coo
_ _

high in the rank of Nations to induce her to pur-
-sue.such objects, and - required no trans-atlantic
lame tó add to the splendour of her reputation.—
The Americans had avowed principles affecting
our maritime lights—rightis iu which not our

glory and our indepe.ndence but our very existence
was involved. Those riglits tte 'bad- secured,—
We had made peace in the true spii it of peace,
and as the representative or a.great cornmcrial

. .
city no one felt more. semibiy than himself the
advantages which we should probably derive from
it. The war -had brought both countries to esti-
mate one another more fairly. America had felt
the powel- of Great Britain through the whole of
her territory and in her very capital, and had-ex-
perienced that this high-minded country- would
never hesitate to sacrifice her immediate interests
whenever her - honour was "concerned. Ije Con-
Chided by moving—
" That an hnruble-Address be presented to-his Royal High,
ness.tbe Prince Regent, returning the thanks of thellouse
to his Royal Highness, for his having been graciously pleased
to order to be laid before the House a copy of the Treaty of
Pence and Amity conthluded between .Great. Britain and the
United States of America; and to assure his Royal Highness
that having fully considered the.same, they reflect with the
utmost gratitude and satisfaction on the fresh prorif thereby
afforded them by this important arrangement, of his Royal
Highness's aitions regard. for the welfare of tho
arrangement which they twisted would establish a perfect re-
eanciliatiuu and a permanent friendship between •riations
finite(' bv so many ties of cofflmon interesC' •
.

Mr. roNsoNBY declared that there was not a
man in the ountry• who rejoiced more since' ely
than- himseifatthe restoration of peace between
Great Bt itain awl the United States ; but he must
say that it would-he extremely disgraceful to the
House to present the Address moved by the Hon.
Gentleman as it stood. It• was the duty- of Par-
liament to inform his Royal Ilighness-ot The gross
misconduct of his Majesty's Vinisters in the pro-
secntion of the war, and in the management, of
the negociatious of peace 'with America. The
Right Hon: sCentleman then entered into a minute
review of the negociations, contending that the
treaty determined rio subject which was in dispute
before •its signature, and that 'no one pretension
asserted by his M-ajesty's Commissioners in the
Coarse of the transaction, had not•been ultimately
abandoned by them- and condemned the delay
which had taken place in *tife, conclusion of the
treaty after the signature of the treaty .of Paris,
by which the peace ofEurope had been apparently.
secured. Tie three great points which had been
insisted on by his Maji7sty'.s Government as a sine
qua non, were all abandoned. The Right Hon.
Gentlemin then entered upon the consideration of
the clause in the treaty,- by which the settlement
of • the boundary line between our possessions in
North America and those of the United States, -
were to be referred to arbitration. He was sure
that the Eatperors of Anstria and Russia and King
of Prussia would-find it the most difficult problem
to solve which they had ever had since their acces-
sions to their Crowtss, to-say wheve this boun-
dary line should be drawn. The most natural
way would have been to have appointed two Com-
Inissioners, with power to-call in an independent
:Sovereign as umpire. There was no, mention in
the Treaty,ol. the subject of- itapresStnent- or the
right of blockade. The pretensions of England
and America were left exactly as they were before
ivy- this 'treaty. It was signed ott • the 24th of
Thcemher last ; the.. Treaty of Paris was signed-
on, the 30th of May, and he had found iC impos-
sible to assign any reason why• such 'an interval
shOuld-have taken place between.. the signing of
the Treaties of Parrs and Ghent. What was the
consequence of this delay At; useless' waste of
treasure, and an unfortunate and • ever4o-he7
lamented waste of the blood of the country,
7tvizich had been sacrificed by this delay. tie
would venture tO•say, that' the war of the Orders
in Council had,bastened the progress of America
towardsbeinga great manufacturing nation, and
It great naval power, by at least another century.
Tltere was, nut any European country, not even •
France, 'WA!' with Which he should think so
daugerousto the security and permanent lute-
tests:. of the. conntry'as with- America. The his-

tory of nations proved, that one• nation never
treated aaother witli even justice, if a certain degree

of fear did not enter into their regard. He truste
in God that it never would be necessary to ente
into another war for tile sake of the two nations
respecting each other. There were no two na-
tions- whose interests were so blended, as those of
England and America ; and no countries, where
it was so easy for ,their Governments to observe.
the relations of peace and. amity. He trusted that
tits contest would spew both countries that their
true interests were, peace, and that neither could
injure the other.—.(Hear, hear !) As a native of'
this country, when he looked to America he felt
a nobler sentiment than- jealousy ;—it was a proud
circumstance to reflect, that England was the pa-
rent of. such a country as America, and had•raised
that wild into one of the most civilized conntries
on the globe. America was the only free •natitin
besides our, oven in the world ; aml England had
never yet been endangered by free States, but by
States-of a different character.—The Right Hon.,
Gentleman then moved an Amendment, expres—
sive of regret that a Treaty had not been sooner
concluded between the two countries, and of a
hope that the peace concluded, between the two
countries would be lasting and permanent.
Mr GOULBURN wished to call to the recollec-
tion of the Right Hon. Gentleman; that he- had
himself allotted; after the Repeal of the Orders in
council, there was no longer any cause for war-
on the part of America. There was no clause in-
serted in the treaty respecting our maritime, rights,
or our right.of blockade, bemuse it was considered
that this Might have had the effect of injuringi•
instead nf strengthening these rights. If the
_ .

right Hon. Gentleman had read the documents
given to the public, he would have found that the
American Commissioners were expressly instructed
to insist on stipulations against the impressment
of seamen, &c: It was on the 25th of June last,
that they were for the first time authorized to give
up this stipulation ; and until. the receipt of this
power, it would have been useless to enter into
any conference, as it would have been impsible
to 'conclude any peace. -There had, lie contended;
been made no demand on the subject of our Indian
Allies which,had been departed from. A paCification
had been procured fort Item, and a definite boundary
(Hear t front Mr. Potisonhy)—:-a boundary ac-
cording to the Treaty of Greenville, in 1811. The.
efforts which we had made.for our Allies were not
the less laudable because they might
,be deemed by
some persons Savages, and were thought by one
Hon. Gentleman as objects beneath our attention.
As we had entered into, engagements I.tith them,
we were bound' to regard their interests, and de-
fend their independence, witich was not less dear
to them than' to the most civilized people.—_
Through the earlier notes of the American Nego-
ciators, the claim on our part that these nations
Should be considered as our Allies was strongly
opposed. The same opposition being made to our
possession of the Cakes,-it- was dseemed more con-
ducive, to the general safety of our Colonies to
give up that advantage, in - consideration of ob-
taining advantages for our Allies. It had' been

said, that all the concessions had been made on

the gide of Great Britain, so that _all the delay was
attributable to.oar'Government.•. The Right Hon.
Gentleman
.(Mr. Ponsonbv) who brought this
. charge, should lave catiticred that he was not
justified in judging flinni the garbled papers pub
fished by the American Government, when there
teas no hope of pi ace. 'The fact was, concession's
had been made on both sides. As•to the appoint,
meat of •Commissioners to decide the right to the
Islands in the Bay of Pas•samaqUaddy, that was a
subject which did not depend on geographical
knowlelige, but was to. be supported by written
• and oral evidence, as to what had been formerly
laid• down as the bounds of Norte Scotia.' lle
therefore contended; that no blame was to be im-
puted to his Majesty's Goveranient, and should
therefore support theoriginal Address..
Ml. POKSONBY explained.
Mr. BARI IsT G agreed, that though the Treaty he-
fore the House had been-one of the worst pieces
of mismanagement Which bad ever come under
their censure,- no 'blame attached to the Co-minis-
sioners, but to the Cabinet without consulting
which not a Note was written. After sending to
Ghent such a 'display of talents and - character,
from the Admiralty, Doctors' Commons, 'and the
Colonial Department, neVerlad a Treaty been
concluded, so meagre and unsatisfactory as that
on the table. 'He could not comprehend why -at
any fate the discussion of the great points in
pute between the two Nations. had not at last
been' entered upon, to see at least whether softie
agreement could not .haVe, been come to, in-
stead olleavibg. trs liable to the renewal of
the war with America, whenever a war occurred
with an European Power. It was- especially
necessary that the question of impressment
should be discussed. In its obnoxious shape no
Nation could submit to it, as it was liable to be ex,
ercised by the most ignorant persons. For our
own sake, we should have come to some under-
standing, as the natives of Great Britain in the
American service was said to be one third or one
fourth of all their commercial navy. On the
whole view of the subject, he contended, that ,

the greatest neglect had been shewn by -Ministers
in not concluding the Treaty at an earlier period:
if Peace had been made at the time of the Treaty
of 'Paris; we should- have concluded a defensive
war with hOnour to ourselves, insteod of having
to, regret concessions, after signal failures in the
North and South. In the, North, had General
Prevost been able to take possession of Plans=
burg, he could only. have penetrated nine or ten
miles further into woods and morasses, in order
to retreat again;, and in the Soitth, the notable
expedition against New Orleans had completely
failed. t'hul our brave troops been successful,
they could only have pfundeed a few.warehouses
of cotton, belonging to merchants of Liverpool
anti Manchester, and must have retreated on the
first warm 'day (or at least sc., many as could walk)
from a Climate' more destructive thhn-the'fogs of
Walcheren. He concluded by expressing his hope,.
that from the terms of ale pence, and ttreTircum-
stanees under which it 'Was concluded, it was not
improbable that it would he lasting, Ministers
would use their utmost endeavours t( conciliate
America, and to make arrangements for a Com-
mercial Treaty.
Mr. GonLanaN-expl'ained.
Mr, MARgYAT spoke. in favour of the Addrevr,
coateadin- that in 1787, America had conceded
. _

to France tloa right of searching for seamen, which
she refused to Great ,Britain.
Mr. C. GRANT Said, that the subject under the
discussidd. of . the House was -strictly the 'Treaty,
and the subject grafted on that- was the • conduct
of his Majesty's Ministers during the Negocia,
tion. It had been observed, that. several ,points
remaining unsettled, the Treaty was not emu,
plete ; but in spite of what he had. heard, lie.
really thought that ten adjustment would. be made.
He-would not enter into the subject of the origin
of the war, but Mr. Madison had said, .that if the
• repeal of the Orders in Connell had been known, it
would not have prevented war. He had heard it
said, that the American Governthent was required to
(10 this.; but when Mr. Jay addressed Washington
fhr an account of his negociations, he replied,
that he -conceived it miconstitutional, anti that
the precedent would be dangerous in the extreme.
- He (Mr. Grant) contended, that this Government
was bound in honour, policy, and justice, to give.
:its protection to the Indians, whom, they had
“Irawo into the -contest against the Americans;
and he thought it a high honour to this Govern!.
meat 'that, they • had. secured , -the Indians die
possession of those rights and pilvileges which in
his opinion had been so shamefully sacrificed and.
given up in the treaties of 17(33 and 17.53.,
Sir J. MACKINTOSH expressed his satisfaction
that his Honourable Friend who had just sat down
had-given him an opportunity of doing justice to
the • ingenuity of his argument, while he had to
combat its reasoning from - the _beginning .to the
end. No man could feel more favourably thanhe
did towards the cause of that connection, which
he. would wish to see for ever established between
this country and the United States of America.
Lord 'CASTLEREAGH spoke chiefly in answer to-
the last speaker, and insisted-that there had...been •
no unnecessary delay ;. that_ it wa.s perfectly wise .
to display the full strength of the country, in
order to• bring the negociations.to a-favourable
end ; that• whatever might be, the• bonourahle
character of the RusAan government, it was utter-
ly inconsistent with English feelings to submit
our rights to its interference ; •aud lastly, that. we
had honourably obtained for the Indians what we
were bound,to obtain for them, thpug-bertainly
we had not gone so far as the Hon. Gentleman
would have wished, who, in his zeal
,for what he
called.civilization, seemed to have overlooked•all
the principles of morality and good faith.
Mr. I. P. GRANT combated the arguments of the
Noble Lord. -
Mr. ROBINSON stated, that as to the attack on
Washington, as -that- event took place in the
mouth of August, and the first meeting of the
Commissioners was on the Bth 'of that month,• the
event would have equally taken place,- it they bad
concluded the Treaty the first dayof their nieeting.
The House then .divided—
For the Amendment, 37—Against it, 12S—Majority, 91.
The original-question was. then carried.—Ad-•
journed. . .