The Sun.
London, England, 1841-04-06 00:00:00

P SUN. LONDON. 111114:SD V APRIL 6, 1-'ll,

duce the duties as low as were consistent with protection,
he should have as cordial a support from that (the Oppo-
sition) as from the other side of the Honse.—( Hear.)
He would not touch upon the details of the Bill until they
came regularly before the House. Bat there was ono
point to which he wished to advert—the case of those
traders whose interests would be damaged by substituting
a duty of 27e- per cent. upon tea imported by lend into
Gene fa for the present prohibition. They were cons ieeed
that smuggling, af,er the alteration, would be carried on
to a greater extent than at present, and he thought that
their case ought to be considered, before the proposed
measure was proceeded with. All they asked was for a
delay until the Legislature of the United Provinces of
Canada could take the subject into their consideration.
Lord J. RUSSELL agreed in the general description
given of tee policy of Mr. Huskisson, although he thought
the description had scarcely gone far enouele—(Chcers.)
He was rejoiced to bear that the Right Hon. Gentleman
himse'f, Lord Liverpool, and the Right Hon. Baronet
the Member for Tarnworth, had all agreed with
Mr. Huskisson in opinion. The support given by Mr.
Canning to those principles was well known. He was
the last man who would think of arrogating to his own
party, or his own Goveroweet, the merit of those princi-
ples ; on the contrary, he was glad to find such a general
concurrence in them on the other side cf the House. and
ho hoped they would be carried iato effect by the largest
majority possible, and, provided these principles could be
carried intcweffeet, he would willingly let former Govern-
ments have all the credit of them.—(Cheers.) The Rght
Hon. Gentleman who had opened the debate hal, how-
ever, spoken in a diffie eat tone, confessing that the reso-
lutions were good in themselves, and that the measures
proposed would be advantageous to the colonies ; he thought
the example of this good, and these advantages were so
noxious, that it was impossible to say what might follow
(Cheers and laughter.) He thought the desire to have
better and cheaper ar idles was so cateeing, that other
branches of industry would be desirous of possessing the
same advantaesee—( Loud cheers.) If he had mis-
interpreted the Right Hun. Gentleman's meaning then he
would say that the granting of that which was advantageous
could never form a precedent for granting that weieh was
iejerious; and when that which was injuli ms should be
proposed, no doubt the Right Hon. Gentleman would suc-
ceed in Meeting it. He ( Lord J. Russell) did not ap-
prove of that system which forced the colonesti to take
British manufactures to chi, ir own great injury, and then,
by way of compensation, fore d the farmers and labourers
of the United Kingdom to take the produce; and, in reply
to tee complaints of the farmers and the labourers, gave
them in their turn advantages at the expense of tee manu-
facturers. That was a vicious system, which, seeking the
advantage of a particular class, lost sight of the benefit of
the whole community.—( Cheers.) He understood the
policy of Mr. Huskisson to be to grant a certain protec-
tion, but not such a one as should enable the manufacturer
to set competition at defiance.—k Cheers.) Such had
been his policy with respect ti the silk manufacture; and
such had been the policy of Mr. Pit: in 1786 with
respect to cloth and earthenware ; the c neequence had
been the improvement of the manufacture in every in-
stance. If the Right Hon. Gentleman adhered to his
principle of granting only the lowest rate of protection re-
quired, he would not find any great difference of opinion
between himself and her Majesty's Government on the
subject in debate. In the present state of the country,
protection woe, necessary; but it should not be so given as
to give one class a superior advantage, when compared
will others. The Right Hon. Geetieman wished for an.
other Committee ; he left it to the members of the Com-
mittee of last year to vindicate their proceedings; but
when the Right Hon. Gentleman expressed his r gret that
persons of 4reater experience had not been examiaed be-
fore that Committee, he owned that he knew not who
could have afforded more information than one of the
gentleman they had examined—he meant Mr. Hume.—
( Cheers.) He had been long engaged in public off ors—
had been in the confirleisce of Mr. Huskisson_acrd with re-
gard to experience he knew not if they had gone further how
they could have found better in that respect. Tine evi-
dence taken be fore that Committee contained a mass of
valuable informadon, and great credit was due to those
who merle that information available; but whatever mea.
sures the Government brought forward would not be
brought forward solely on the grounds of their accordance
with the recommendations of that Committee ; they would
be brought forward because the Cabinet considered they
were based on proper and just principles. That Geo
vernmeat would be acting in a mean and nnssoisfac-
tory manner which should merely say, here are mea-
sures brought forward solely because they are in ac-
cordance with the recommendation of the Import Com-
mittee. They were bound to consider these important
subjects in every point of view, and then to propose
that which they though most needful, and, be their opinions
right or wrong, there was a general agreement on that
point in the Cabinet; they were prepared to bring forward
such measures as they might think useful for the country,
and would not shrink from the responsibility of those mea-
sures on which Parliament and the ceuntre must decide.
They were not insensible of the immense importance cf
the subject. They brought forward these measures because
it was granted that some such measures were necessary,
and they endeavoured to adopt the line cf policy which was
supproted by the greatest weight of argument and tsetse-
rience, and if they were not mistaken in their views they
were carrying out the policy ealeuleted to confer on the
conntry the greetest benefits, arid if they failed they would
have this consolation, that their intention had been to pro-
mote the commerce, the industry, and the fortunes of
this mighty empire.--( Loud cheers. )
Mr. HE RRIE S explained that when speaking of those
who had given evidence before the Committee he had net
intended to state that they were persons witheut knowledge
or experience. From his knowledge of Mr. Hume he was
the last man in the world to speak lightly of that gentle-
man, to whose character and attainments he willingly bore
testimony. He regretted that the Committee had not ie-
veetigated the other side of the question, and that the opi-
nions of those supporting it had not been put upon record.
Mr. LABOUCHE RE deprecated the hints that had
been thrown out by the Right Hon. Gentleman, that a
further Committee was necessary on the subject ; he
never could agree to that, as it would only lead to delay.
Mr. VILLIERS, after the able and satisfactory speeches
that bad bean made that night, had some scruple in address-
ing the House. Nothing, he confessed, since he bad a
seat in that House had been so satisfactory to him as
the statements that had been made that tight by several
of her Majesty's Ministers._( Hear, hear.) He critod as-
sure the House that he should watch most closely in eider
to see how they carried out the principles they had that
night professed. The speech of the Right Honourable
Gentleman opposite that night had not surprised
him; he had attacked the Committee, because ho
conceived there bad been etedenee received , more
upon one side than the other. Now, he must
say that such was not the case. The Committee
did not call the witnesses for the purpose of hearing their
opinions, but in order that they might state facts and ex-
plain official documents ; and the facts that had been sub-
stantiated alone gave the inquiry importance. What was
inquired into by the Committee was what duties were
imposed for revenue and wbat for protection. All the
witnesses that weee examined before that Committee were
persons of unblemished character, and one of them, a
most honourable man, had stated that the taxes which
pressed upon the people were for greater than those
raised for the purposes of revenue. He attached great
importance to these resolutions, because they recognised
a most important principle; they recognised the principle
w ith respect to the colonies, that I.berty in trade fflas et-
feudal to their prosperity.—( Hear.) The Right Hon.
Gentleman the Member for Cambridge seemed to him to ad-
vocate the principle of monopoly when he objected to these
resolutions. It seemed to him that the Preside. toftt e
Board of Trade had proposed these resolutions under the
conviction that the old policy, with respect to trade in the
colonies, was totally Ineffectual for the purposes intended.
Mr. Huskisson was of that opinion years ago, but he
seemed afraid to adopt any measures on the subject. There
seemed to him no ground for the opposition to this mea-
sure, save that which bad been hinted at by the
Right Honourable Gentleman—that it recoguised a prie_
ciple that might be applied in other matters. Nothing in his
opinion could be so injurious to the colonies as the present
re.trictive duties. The system adopted with respect to
trade in the colonies was rotten to the core, and must be
remedied, and nothing was more likely to effect that ob-
ject than the preset-A resolutions. He was ready to take
these resolutions, small as they were, as an instalment to-
wards a great principle; and he thought they were an
earnest of good intentions on the part of the Government
and the House, He lamented that so long a time bee
elapsed before any Minister of the Crown had thought
proper to bring forward a motion like the present, but be
was at the same time rejoiced to find that a small progress
had been at length made in the right direction, and it
should have his best support.
Mr. G. PALMER said that the Hon. Member for
Kilkenny, and the Hon. Member who had just sat down,
had clearly enough pointed out the injurious conse-
quences that would result from carrying out these
resolutions on the principles proposed by the Right
Honourable Gentleman the President of the Board of
Trade ; and the Honourable Member far Wolverhampton
had distinctly shown that so sure as one reduction of duty
took place, another must follow.—e" No, ne.") The Irish
provision merchants would assuredly put in their claim,
and then there would be a cry to take the duty off Baltic
timber, and, in fact, to remove all protectite duties,—
( Hear, hear.) It appeared to him that the subject required
much further consideretion before they proceeded to legis-
late upon it.
Mr. BINGHAM BARING, who was very indistinctly
heard, was understood to complain of the constitution of
savoured
nhihapdtveleeour:Cuebarwboesntmehdldran Ivottuahfi
unprotected
paoherdrnaeco;s:
euoe
elbeen
result
net
flippancy: whichdseaasai
di
intbhdoaewanldths. examined
ti.cmhhheegeymerehtn eaerdrhae
for
undefended.
leftioiflyr witnessesver y
importantone
i or:
alhavnyet
eitrespecthrhiaasmtndpt ht
theet yno
characterised
1 observations of that Hon. Member,__( Loud cries of
tphreoscneeedx.p—r
e(a
aLi
nonuad
withoutand fd
u"eCchoanisri.d"e)r a t if: no,
not submit to the observations of the Hon. Memb
Mr. VILLIERS would er.
repeat that the observa-
tions which had been made with reference to the
constitution of the Committee were personal, offen-
sive, and unfounded.—( Loud cries of " 11ear, ,boa-. " )
The noble personage to whom they both referred had
stated that the constitution of the Committee savoured
of fraud, and trick, and contrivance. Now a Committee
more fairly chosen, er more disposed to do justice to all
parties interested, never was appointed by that House;
and it was for the House to inquire whether a Committee
formed according to the usage of that House, could be
said to savour of fraud, trick, and contrivance. As to any
observations made by the Hon. Member towards himself,
he treated them with the most perfect contempt, and would
not waste time by replying to anything the Hon. Member
might chose to call him to order for._( Hear, and cries of
" Chair.")

Mr. H (iNIE cea3 proceeding to make some re'rarks
upon the consthution of t:. Committee. ::ea,
M. GC/ULM:TN 'LW:, to order. .-;c Ead
hibited reference to statements made in the other House
of Parliament. They had a few minute's ago icen the

natural consequences of references of this nature,—a ref:-
fence being misunderstood by one gentleman, which, if
properly understood, would not have justified his observe.
tioas, and calling forth from the other side of the House
irritating expressions, from a gentleman who was conrected
with the person in the first instance personally attacked.
He was sure, therefore, the Hr'use would pardon Min for
interposing ro prevent reference to the debates in the other
Heim of Parliament, which were not necessary for the
illustration of the subject. and which were only calculated
to excite ill-feelings.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUM E said that he bad no wish to excite ill-feel.
ings, but the truth should be told.—! Hear, hear.)
The CHAIRMAN said he bad seen that nearly the
greater part of the discussion this etening had baeu irre-
levant. he was sorry to say that since he had first entered
the House, attention to the old reds of not referring to
what passed in the other House of Parliament had been
gradually growing less and less. He had been unwilling
to interfi re on the present occasion, because he had seen
such references made without being checked on various
occasions, but be was quite sensible that it was clearly ar,
irregularity of practice; and as ill feelings were excited
by it, he trusted that the good sense of the Hon. Member
would induce him to desist —( Hear, hear.)
Mr. B. BARING said a few words, which were in-
audible
Mr. HUME said that he had copied the words from
the Morning Chronicle and sent them to the Noble Lora,
and asked him whette r they were a correct report of
what he had said, and he (Mr. Hume) had the Noble
Lord's own admission that it was correct.—(Cecers.) He
would not pursue the subject further than to say, that if
the 'feelings of Hon. Gentlemen opposite were so sensi-
tive, they should not blame those who were first attacked
fur defending their characters.
Mr. B. BARING sa'd he could assure the House that
it was not his wish to excite unpleasant feelings; but
when it was stated that he had blamed the witnesses, he
begged to say that he had never made use of any such
expressions, but he considered the proceedings
of the
Committee were irregular, and deseiviag of the designa-
tion he had given them.
After a few words from Mr. WHITE,
The CHAIRMAN said that bafare he left the Chair he
thought it becoming to take notice of some exprmoiens
that had been used in the course of the debater.—( Hear.)
He was sure the words had fallan from gendemer,
on each side from misconception end irritation, natural ht
the moment. He therefore ho;.ei the Commtttee would
confirm and second his efforts is calling upon each Hon.
Member to consider the words that had fallen from him
with a view to an explanation.—( Cheers, and erica of
" Question," " Chsir," " Baring.")
Mr. Villiers, who had left his seat, bating resumed
it, the Chairman, repeated his observations, and called
upon both Hon. Gentlemen to explain their words and
retract. them. After some delay and confusion,
Lord Al OR PE TH rose and expressed a here th-t
the Hon. Gentleman would run a race with each other in
reply to the very proper appeal that had been made to
them in consequence of expressions which must ha, e arisen
from the warmth of discussion, and the irregularity cf their
proceedings. Perhaps, under the circumstances, it
was rather natural for the feelings of the Hon. Member
for Wolverhampton to be somewhat hart at being referred
to in a way which he did not think his conduct cut t'ed
him ; and he was sure that his Hon. Friend (M'. B.
Baring) must have thought that his relation had been im-
properly reflected upon. Under these circumstanaes, he
hope.' that the ill feelings that had arisen from mistaken
views, would subside upon tumuli explanation.—( lit as.)
Mr. B. BARING said he was always ready to apologise
to anybody whom it was consniered that he had insult d.
On this occasion be had felt much hurt and irrit sted at
the expressions of the Hon. Gentleman, and had there-
upon expressed his natural feelings. If he retracted any-
thing that he bad said the Hon. Member must also retract
his offensive expressions.—( Hear, hear.) He had re) in-
tention of falling out with anybody.—( Haar, tear. )
Mr. VILLIERS said he was peifeetly willing to re-
tract anv express on he had used aa all offensive to the
Hon. Member. lie believed what the Hon. Member con-
sidered offensive was the expression he ( Mr. Villiers) had
used with reference to what bad fallen from a relative of
the Hon. Gentleman. That relative had admitted that
the expressions be complained of were u'ert, arid he thought
the House would be satisfied that ho ( Mr. Villiers) was
justiied in feeling offended at :hem, and he cerainly eas
astonished at the words used by the Hon. Member towards
eirnself personally.—( He as, hear.)
Mr. BARING said that offensive expressions were
totally abh irrent to his character and f, chugs. He would
say no more after what be had already said, —( Hear. )
The subject then dropped, and the Committee resumed
the business before it.
In reply to some observations of Mr. GOULBURN that
did not reach us,
Mr. LABOUCHERE gild he had thought it to be lis
duty to move for a Committee of the House of Commons,
because such a Committee would give an intimation to the
country that the Goternms nt thought inquiry should
be made whether or not these duties should t e al-
tered. It was his intention to adhere entirely to
the principles laid down by Mr. Huskisson, when
that great statesman brought f,rwerd his come ercial
resolutions is 1825. But though he thought those reso
lutions were the best that could have be, n hen proposed,
with any chance of carrying them into effect, be did not
think they were in accordance with the principles he had
himself laid down.—( Hear, heir.)
Sir C. DOUGLAS said, that having been a Member
of the Committee that had been alluded to, he could net
allow the subject to pass without a few observations. He
must say he did not think the Report of the Committee
was calculated to give the public a fair impression of the
state of the case. They hail not time for a full investiga-
tion, and or, this account, towards the close of the Com-
mittee, he had proposed that they should move for
the reappointment of a Committee to continue the investi-
gation. He was the only Member oil his side of the
House who attended it. He must say he thought the di-
gest that had appeared was not a fair digest. It gave a
one-sided idea of a most one-sided Report.—(Hear.)
Mr. HUME said with regard to the Report being one-
sided, it should be remembered that it was only so as being
the Report of the majority of the Committee. The Hon.
Member was in the minority, and complained, as all minori-
ties din, of the unfairness of the tyrannical majority.—
(H,am ) He would ask the Hon. Member to instance any act
of unfairness in the Committee, or whether they refused to
put any question or to hear any observation that was offered ?
In that Committee the question of Corn-laws was found
to be so connected with the subject that they could not
put a question which did not in some way or other involve
that question. He contended that their digest was a
fair one.
Mr. VILLIERS said one result of the Committee was
that the Hon. Member for Whitey, had declared to him
that if the Committee were to sit another week, be believed
he would become as good a free trailer as himself.
Lord SANDON said that all the evidence taken before
that Committee was on one side. There was no' sufficient
time allowed to go into the whole subject. His Hon.
Friend the President of the Board of Trade must
have seen the evils which had arisen from it. In many
branches of trade great suspension of business had arisen
from the excitement which had followed. It was a purely
ex parte statement. He did nut impute blame to any
one. hut be deprecated the system.
Mr. WA RD said if the evidence were only ex parte it
would have had eery little effect upon the country. Im-
putations had been made against the Committee on am.
count of its Report. That R port would be received
quantum vahat The real objection, to it was, that it had
brought out most important tacts._(Hi ar, hear)—facts
which bad been appreciated in the great manufacturing
and mercantile community, and which had taken a
firmer hold of the public mind than any evi-
dence which had ever beer, given in a Com-
mittee of that House, and such a strong feeling had
been created that no evidence which could be brought for-
ward would be able to shake the public conviction as to
what was the only safe basis of legislation.—(Hear.)
Lord SANDON said that that was what he complained
of.—( A laugh.) His °ejection was, that the evidence had
been ail one side.
Mr. SCHOLEFIELD said that the /Committee had
had one good effect, namely, that of openl.ng the eyes of
the people to the injustice of the Corn laws. Knowing,
as he cis!, the distresses of the people he thought they
should have been treated with more tenderness than they
had been by the Right Hon, Gentleman the Member for
Cambridge.
Mr. GOULBURN explained.
Mr. HUME was proceeding to address the House,
when he was interrupted by cries of " Chair, chair."
We understood the bon. Gentleman to defend the Cum
mittee from the charge of entering into the question of the
Corn-laws, on the ground that where the food of the people
was concerned great allowance ought to be made,
The second, teird, fourth, and fifth resolutions were
then put and agreed to.
In answer to a question from Mr. PALMER,
Mr. LABOUCHERE stated that he intended to pro-
pose that the resolutions should come into operation on the
Ist of January, 1842.
CRIMINAL JUSTICE.
_ _

On the OrderOfJiebity being 11 asi for the House
going into Coinmitt-e on the Criminal Justice Bill,

BOLLlNGohjected t> iti being then proceeded
with, and moved that the House do now adjourn.
Mr. F. MAULE said be hope the House would not
adopt the motion of the Hon. Gentleman. The inhabitants
of Birmingham, Manchester, and of ecery other large
tt.wn, were most anxious that the Bill should be passed
without delay. He trusted tee Hon. Gentleman would
s,e the propriety of withdrawing his motion.
After a few words from Sir C. DOUGLAS, against
proceeding with the Bill.
The ATTORNEY GENERAL said, that if he had
reason to Ix lieve that Hon. Members were abient on the
supposition that the Bill would not come before the House,
he would most willingly consent to the adjournment; but
as ho believed the contrary to be the fact, be must ask the
House to proceed. The subject was of the last import..
ance. The administration of justice in towns would be
paralysed by delay.
Mr. AINSWORTH said be bel;eved the petition al.
laded to by his Hon. Colleague had been got up under the
idea that the Town Council were going to raise rates to
build gaols; they el ere going to do no such thing, and he
hoped that the Attorney.Ger.eral would proceed with the
Bill.
Mr. L. BRUGES had understood that the Bill was to
be brought on to. night, and had attended under that idea,
It was of great importance to the town be represented,
and he hoped it would go into Committee to-night.
Sir C. DOUGLAS explained.
After a few words from Mr. BOLLING,
Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and the House di.
vided.
For Mr. Bol!ing's motion of adjournment „, Jo
Against it

Majority against the amendment
On our re-admission unfound
Mr. BOLLING objecting to proceedirg w:th 13

Mr ABOUCHE'RE g,-re,;

inq of the l3cuse, that the ~,•iiLdtdf:Krji,'„l,
Bi:1 vocced•
Mr. BOLLING only wished for delay until after
Easter. Arrangements had been made with Manchester

and Birmingham, and perhaps they might be made with
Bolton if time were grimed.,
The ATTORNE Y-GE NERAL said ample time would
be allowed, es it would be impo,thle thy: i 3.11 couli b,
read a third time before the holidays.
Mr. B 0 L LIN G would nut persist pertinaciously in op-
position to the wishes of the House, but he thought the
House was hardly now in sufficient numbers to discuss such
a Bill as the present.
The House then went into Committee on the Bill.

On the reading of the first clause,
Mr. LUDLOW BRUGES moved as amendment to
insert after line 23 the following words :—" And also any
sum of money not exceeding the amount of any ptincipal
sum which previously to the passing of this Act shalt have
been raised for any of the purposes aforesaid, and whicr
shall be outstanding on security at the time of th. passing
of this Act, and therewith to pay off and di charge the
whole or any part of the money for which such security
shall have been given : provided, that every sum
of money to be raised fur the diseba ge of such outstano-
ing loans and securities, shall be raised and borrowed on
such terms and conditions as shall in no reipect prevent
or delay the re-payment thereof within the time prescribed
by this Act, such time to he computed from the date of
such outstanding securities respectively."
The amendment was adopted, and the clause as
amended agreed to.
On the readirg of the second clause.
Mr. L. BRUGES moved an amendment that 'Fft.l'r the
word " rates" in tine 13, the following should he in-
serted:—" And every such securty shall be registered by
the Clerk of the P ace, or some other officer of such bo-
rough, appointed fJr :Lich purpcse, in a book to l c kept
by him fur registering such securities ; and it shall and
may be lawful for et cry person who shall he entitled
to the money so to be sr clred. and such
person, his executors and administrators, is and are hcrehy
empowered (by endorsing his, her, or their name or
names on the beck of such security), to transfer the same,
and his, her, or their right, to the pincip,il money and in-
te•est the, eby secured, unto any other pe son ; and every
such assigne., may in like manner transfer the rams
a:,cl so from time to time, as circumstances may requ'r,., and
the person to whom such security or any assignment thereof
shall be made, and his executors, administrators, and assigns,
shall be creditors upon the said borough find or rate, or
gaol rat s, in an equal degree one with another; and the
said Mayor, Alckrrni r, and Burgesses, by their Council,
shall direct in whit order such securities shall he di:-
charged, by &arsine lots, or otherwise, as they shall see
fit, subj..ct nevertheless to the discharge in the fint place
of a.l such tecurities as shall bear the highest rate of in-
terest.''

After a short diicussim the chute, with this amend-
ment, was agreed to.
Clauses 4 and 5 v, ere agreed to.
Clause 6 was also agreed to, after a few observations
from Mr. MONTZ and the ATTORNEY • GENERAL.

Mr. W. PATTEN proposed to insert a clttu e, the ob-
ject of which was, f r the comp,msation of offic,rs, and the
confirmation of the Charter of the town of Manchester.

Mr. M PHILLIPS oppose] the clause.
Mr. COURTENAY complained of the unfairness of
diFeussing the clauses of so important a measure at so late
a period of the nig'.t, and with so thin an attendance of
Members. It would almost tempt one to off .r (very op-
positi'm to thr farther progress of the measure.
Mr. MUNTZ moved thet the town of Birmingham be
adeeft to the clau.e.

The ATTORNEY GENERAL thought that the
claut•e, ought to be printed, and taken i.to cor.isideratinn
at a fu•ure sage of the Bill tr.ey were too important to
discuss without previous; notice.
Mr. WILSON PATTEN said if it were the wish of
the House he would withdraw the clause for the present,
but he suggested that the Chairman should report progress
and ask leave to sit again. They could then discuss the
clause in C.:mtnittee, Mich was a much mote convenient
wav t f cloi,,g it than Lyon the bringit g up of the Report.
Mr. AG LIONBY objected to the Chairman reporting
progress.

Mr. BROTHERTON thought it would be a very great
hardship t f.,ree these clauses upon the Committee with-
out previous notic•'.

After a few words from Lord SANDON,
The House resumed, and the Chairman reported pro_
;press, and obtained leave to sit again.
The Royal Burghs ( Scotland) and the Parliamentary
Birghs (Sc ,tlalid) Bills were read a second time, and
ordered to be committed.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for Ireland brou.2.ht
in a Bill to amend the laws for the relief of insolvent
debtors in Ireland, which was read a first time.

The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of,
and the House adjourned at One o'Clock.

WEST LONDON RAILWAY CO vl.

PANY.

A Special General Meeting of the Shareholders in
the above Company, was yesterday held at the Company's
Offices, Abchurch lane, pursuant to adjournment from
Monday la,t. The Chair was taken shortly after one
o'clock by W. Morgan, Esq., the Deputy Chairman of
the Company,
The CHAIRMAN raid that at the last meeting, various
plans had been proposed of which he thought it to ees,ary
to say a few words. It bad been proposed to abaneoa
the matter ah.ogeiher; now that plan could not be adopted
without the consent of every individual Shareholder having
beeu obtained. Another que,tion that had been asked
was, would not any othi r Company take them up. Tee
answer to that was, that none could, until they had ex-
erted themselves to put their liee into a proper state.
For two years they l.td been deliberating, and now the
time for action had artiv,d. Something must be done.
Creditors were pressing th.-m, and the landowners
along the line wouldeesume the land if they did not pro-
ceed. They had lost law suits merely because V:ee had
not money, and their works Were going to ruin from the
same cause. Af e.• their Act had been obtained, two ex-
tensions of the li. e to Knightsbridge and to the Thames
bad been proposed ; that that plan would have been suc-
cessful he did rot doubt, but it did not meet with the ap-
probation of the Shareholders, and at the last meeting it had
bean determined to abandon it. There was then what he
would call the medium plan for carrying the line from one
canal to the other; by that plan he proposed toabide. There
were two other plans—one for carrying the line to the
Hammersmith-read only, and another for stopping short
at the Uxbridge-road, be cowidered both objectionable;
the traffic on a fraction of a line was always small com-
pared to that on a continuous line. It would be like
building ti bridge has =way over a river. The plan con-
tinuing the line from canal to canal, would save their
powers under the Act. The Water Works Company and
the Metropolitan Roads Company bad behaved exceed-
ingly liberally to them in granting all they asked, but those
Companies took it for granted they would proceed at once
with the work, and having obtained their Act, they were
bound to the public to complete the line, and not to
leave it a pool of stagnant water injurious to the
health of the tit igbbourhood. If they carried the lines to
the points proposed there were ctner Companies who
would take it up and extend it to the Thames and to
Knightsbridge, and when they considered how high up the
Iron Steam-boats extended, if they had a pier cut at Bat-
tiles they might fairly calculate upon a great increase in
passengers' traffic. The plan proposed for rrising the
money had been stigrreeised swamping the 6hart--
holders ; he should be exceediegly sorry teat any should
be injured, but now they were all swamped, and the only
question was should they spend a little more.money to re.
trieve what they had sunk. Something had been said of
the Great Western Railway Company. He did not think
the Chairman or Directors cf that Company would sanc-
tion anything improp r, and be bed been giten to under.
stand that the alteration made by that Company in the
rail would not be at all injurious. Tney had art ahle
engineer, respectable centraetors sere willing to under-
take the work, and he hoped they might look ferward to
the day when the re ilroad would t e a source of honour and
ene.lument to the Shareholders._(Cheers.)
Dr. CAME said the line was not in so deplorable a
state as it had been represented to be. He bad gone over
and with the exception of the wall, every part of it was
in the highest order. The land in the neighbourhood of
the line b •longiog to the Company was of the greatest
valuer
Mr. MOB (having first protested against being sup-
posed to r.orn.prornee. his claims on the Company
by taking pert in the t7roceeirgs of the day)
said that at the last meeting he had moved the
adjournment because the Directors were prepared
to state what might be the results of their
,Plam .as
to the working the line, and the real cause of all t;.711.
fertunes had been that no definite scheme had ev, r bes:'n
laid before the Proprietors. A certain gradient bad been
adopted, and a stationary engine was to be employed to over-
come the declivity of the hill, and the locomotive treetion
was to be employed to do the level work ; and if that
scheme had been been cart std forward there would hate
peen little to complain of, except so far as they had been
interrupted by the Great Western line. Then again it had
been proposed to adopt a gradient capable of being worked
by horse power. They ought certainly to consider the mode of
traction to be adopted, and if they could show that by any
plan a fair ;lid reasonable profit would be ensured, no doubt
their shares would rise in the market. It was i ecesswry
that the teac ion to be acopted should be not only rapid
but economical, and if they could show that their proposed
scheme was eConothicAl arid profitable, no doubt they
would soon be ab'e to raise the money. He believed that
they might real to more profit by their land than they had
lost by their blunders. Their great object in all they did
ought to be to dhow the public that there was some reason-
able expectation of a profitable result. It had been said
the other day the ecal traffic was of little consequence ;
now, since that, he bad ascertained that one concern alone

' at Nottingham sent up by thri tenet 500 tons of r oal a
week, and employed nine sets of ii..!trues on the canal in
that traffic. With regard to the value of the 111 bad
positive information that one plot of less than threj
quarters of an acre, bounding their own land, fetched
100/. per annum, and that a neighbouring pirce of less than
ball an acre was let fur 80/. a year, and yet they had
sold land for 150/. as acre, when 100/. a year had been ob-
tained fur three-quarte,s of acre in the immediate neigh.
nourhood. The value of the land they had purchased of
Scott was equal to at least 3,000/., and the acyclic, -five
'cr, a they possessed at that farm were worth from 300/, to
500/ an acre. Now, that would be more than sufficient
to cover all their debt. He had no doubt of this, dnd he
did not speak unadvisedly, because he had had great expo,
rienco in the inciais. d value given to land by imi,rove-
mews. The Grand Junction Canal Company were now
getting 2604 an acre for land which they had purchased et
201. an acre. He had been asked the other day by the
worthy Knight what was hi; I eject. He had put on
paper his ideas on the subject, which 1-e would now submit
to the meetirg. (The worthy Proprietor then laid on the
table, first, a plan which be had submitted to the Company
on the 24th of September, 1839; secondly, a modification
of that plan, by which it was propoFed to keep the canal
constantly full of water, so as to secure the benefit of
wha, fare on its bankp; thir,llv, a or,ject euhmit•,,ltotle
; ,„
,i„ „ _

I; ,L•ilLull.l,l L:A, A
fourth was a proposition submitted in June, 1840, for stop,
ping at the TJabridge•road, and suggesting that a station

should be erected there immediately. The line might be
completed to that point fee. horse traction on a single line
of rails for 10,0001. They had heard nothing from the en-
gineer of the mode of tr ,ction which he propn'ed to em-
ploy, and until they knew that they could not say that they
had the full and perfect scheme before them. No. 5 was
a plan he bad drawn up in consequence of.what had
passed the other day relative to continuing the iiiie to the
north side of the Hammersmith road ; that would entail a
large expenditnre—they would have one bridge to build,
and including drainage he thought it could not be accom
plished for less than 20.000/. Paper No. 6 was a plan fur
raising 20 000/, by loan, to be secure d Oil all the available
securities of the Company ; the money to be advanced for
five years, at five per eerie interest, payable half-yearly,
the persons advancing it to have the option of convening
their advances into shares, or giving six month,'
notice, and the Company to have the right of re-
paying the money, also giving notice; that would
give them some hope of paying off the money, because, it
they set about completing the railroad in earnest, he had
no doubt but that their shares would soon be at per. This
plan would swamp nobody. If they availed themselvei
of their own resources, they would soon be independent
of the Great Western Company, who had not behaved
properly to them. The wore alluded to by the Chairman
had been done by that Company without consulting them.
He contended that Company ought to have given them
notice of their ietentione. They ought to be independent
of that Company. He should like to see the line carried
to the London and thrill egharn line, for he was sure that,
considering the two tunnels that Company's lire Passed
through, two sets of rails would not be sufficient for the
work, and they should get a sh:re of the traffic—more
especi lily if they could carry their line to the T'nan.es.
He considered the plan of the Directors as one calculated
to sacrifice the poorer Se •reheleers to tie wealthier once
A proposition had been made for pneumatic traction at
the rate of rather more than or.e farthing per ton per mile.
That was a proposition well worthy the attention of the
Proprietors, for if anything like that could be accom-
plshed, it would be one of the most profitable concerns in
the world. He had laid these propositions befi re them as
having been one of the original projectors of the Com-
pany, to,whi h he had been urge i by Lord Kensington
and tire worthy Keight neat him. The subject of bore
trecion, and of pneumatic traction, was one well worthy
f consideration. and he tensed that they would consider
what was most for the general benefit of the Company.
Slf JOHN SCOTT LILLIE hoped they would decide upon
some feasible proposition on that day. lie did not approve
Of stopping either at Uxbridge or Hammersmith, and he
did not consider they were in a posi:ion to adopt any of
the resolutions that Mr. White had proposed ; for
the delay would be ruinous, and he knew of
no better plan than the one proposed last week,
He should, tre reform loose that the Ike be compheed
with or.e line of rails from Kensington Canal-basin to the
Grand Junction Canal, for which purpose 40,000/. should
be raised in 20,000 shares of 21. each, such shares to be
entitled to all the aflvairtiges ot 201. shares to be divided
rateably among the Proprietors, and in the event of any
Proprietor refusing his shares such shares to be offeted to
the other Proprietors, and in the event of their refusing,
to the public at large, such shares to he paid kr by four
instalments of 6e. 10d. each, one at the time of allotment,
another on the sth of August, 1841, another on the sth of
November, 1841, and another on the 7th of February,
1842. A scrip to le issued on the payment of the first
allotment, and on the non-payment of the instalment the
scrip to be forfeited.
Mr. LUARD seconded the motion, on the distinct under-
standing that the 31,000/. should be exclusively dented
to the c ,niple,ion ot the one, and the 8,0001 to the pay.
meat ( f deists for the laud for its completion, and 1,0001
fur the payment of small debts, as ereanged at the last
meeting.
Sir JOHN SCOTT LILLIE ;Treed that a protiso to that ef-
fect should he added to th • resolution.

Mr. I'iIiErPARD, M. P., cis not approve of either propc-
sition. He thought they ought to go on to the Kensing-
ten-road, and stop there until they were either in
hater feather, cr until some other Company would take
them up. That might be done for 20 000/, which rniiht
be raised if in eassar3, on the issue of shares at 51.
( Hear, bear)---and when the works I,veri begun, the
shares, no doubt, would be in better condition than they
are p eseht. He threw that plan out, and would be
glad to hear any objection:: that could be urged against it.
The Hon. Gentleman then moved to that eEet.

Mr. WHITS recorded arnendrlnnt merely for the
purpose of gr tting it discussed.
Mr. GARDEN proposed a plan for raising 60,0004 by
the issue of 3.750 new shares, at 151., so as to cony fete
the line as originally proposed.
Ti e proposition, however, fell to the ground.
Mr. Duscome said the steund prlnAition before the
meeting was the same in principle, being both fir the
raising of a sum of money and the issuir g of shares at a re-
duced price. They had the guarantee of the engineer that
40 000/ would be sufficient to carry them from the Pad-
d:ngton Canal to the Kensington Canal, thus opening
those two great sources of traffic, asalso the G: eat Western
Railroad. The proposition of Mr. Sheppa-d could not be
carried into effect for a much less sum than 40,0001.,
because they would Inve to purchase land to establish
a station, so that , hey would accomplish less with the same
money. With rega.d to the price of shares it was uselt ss to
issue them, except they pot them so low that the Share-
kidders cook lel help taki•:g the in. It was a hard Situ&
tion for the poorer Sham hoiters, but it could not be
helped. With regard to Mr. White's proposi ion, they
had trie4 bet. re to raise 20,0004 on nkertgege, ago could
not get it; and their out. resource was to issue shares to
theinkelves. They had eAeavoured to make tlas payments
as easy as possible, and that was all they could ch, to ac-
comodate the pourer Shareholders.
Mr. WHITE asked how the iine was to be worked.
Mr. DUNCOMBE said they had not determined on the
point, nor could they, until they had a finished line. When
they should hve that, many of the suggestions made by
Mr. White that day would be exceedingly va!uable, hut
till then they were useless. They had endt•avoured
to get the Great Western Company to work the line, but
the Company would not speak to them until it was com-
pleted. They would be glad to see them extinguished,
arid unless something was done to continue the hoe they
would have their wish.

In answer to a question from Mr. White, the engineer
stated that the es,imate was only for finishing the line, aid
not for working it, and thht could be worked ei..her by
locomotive or horse power; that the guage vral to be that
of the Great Wester►, but Unit it ruigot be made epplica-
ble to the Birmingham also when ext-nded.
Mr. WHITE asked if the gnage of the Great Western
Railway was not the more exper,sive of the two.
The engineer said the cliff...! mice of cost was very insig-
nificant.

Mr. Mactranuon consented to Vie proposition of the
Directors, not because he liked it, but because he felt him-
self compelled to do so, and on the underst-rnding that the
money should be devoted to no other purposes he sup-
portod rh.- motion.
Mr. SHEPPAKO withdrew his amendment, but wished
that some n earis could t e deviced to give the poorer
Shareholders who might be unable to take the new shares
some sort of advantage.
A long discussion ensued on this point, but it wrs ulti-
mately tound ihat, by law the Cot-Ipso)? nas precluded
from making any suet] arrangement.
Mr. Vi HITE th-n put in the papers be had referred to,
the S:cretary promising that he should have a copy of all
of them.

Mr. GUNTER, as a Director, Ras exceedingly desirous
that the meeting should come to some stringent re3olutiou
to tie up the hands of the Directors from appioiiiiating
the money to any mint purpose• than the compt tiun ut the
line.

Ar the suggestion cf Mr. LUARD, it was arranged that
fouutecn Gays should be suffered to elapse after the non.
payment of au instalment before the shared should be fur-
d.

The resolution was then agreed to.
Mr. MACFARLAND sald thy' highest offer they had gnt for
the land hail beers 1601. an acr.. Now as so much had
been said on the value of the land, he thought it ought to
be set up by public auction.
Mr WHITE thought money might easily be raised on it;
11 000/. was all they wanted, and its value would be mate-
rially enhanced by the Railway
Mr DUNCOMBE sid they were forced to sell, as actions
of ejectment were brought against them. The whole cost
to tne Company of the land was about 17,0001, ii.e.udine
interest, of which 6,0001. had ben obtained from 'he sale of
a portion of it.
It was ultimately arranged that the sale should take
place by open tender or public auction.
Thanks were then voted to thd chairman, and the
!fleeting separated.