The Sun.
London, England, 1841-09-27 00:00:00

11-1 E SUN, LONDON, MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 27, 1841.

Inspector reported the case to the Secretary of State, who
ordered him immediate liberation, he (Lord B.) thought
that inquiry ought to be made with respect to whom the
fault lay in that case. He admitted that it was quite im-
possible that these volumes of reports of the Inspectors
could be all throughly read and acted upon by the
Home Department. He imputed no blame to that de-
partment for not having acted upon the earlier reports;
on the contrary, he was of opinion that the fittest course
to sake was to allow the reports to be made and laid
before Parliament, in order to give an opportunity
to the parties complained of to alter the course they had
adopted, that course he was happy to say had been pro.
ductive of great good, and it was not until the present
moment that it became necessary to move for the cor-
respondence that had taken place relative to the last
Report. After some further observations from the
Noble Lord,

The Duke of WELLINGTON said Parliament haing
reposed very great power in the Secretary of State, it was
desirable that they should have full information
as to .all, proceedings that. took place under that
authority. Not knowing much, personally, of the
statements of his Noble and Learned Friend, he did not
intend to trespass at any length upon their Lord-
ships ; and, without knowing exactly the details of
each case, it was impossible to judge how far
the interference of Parliament was necessary. If it
were true that punishment such as his Noble and Learned
Friend had referred to, had been inflicted, he had
no doubt that the case would be fully
investigated more particularly, as his Noble and Learned
Friend had intimated his intention to .send a note to
his Noble Friend the Secretary of State. He had
no objection whatever to the motion ; on the
contrary, he was anxious that all the requisite
information should be supplied, but he suggested, for
the consideration of his Noble Friend, whether his ad-
dress could be presented, calling upon the Crown to order
information to be laid prospectively before the next Ses-
sion of Parliament.

Lord BROUGHAM said it was merely a direction—
the motion was in the ordinary shape.
The LORI) CHANCELLOR suggested that the
words "next Session of Parliament" might be omitted.
Lord CAMPBELL agreed in the remark of the
Noble Duke opposite that the motion for prospec-
tive information would be an interference with the pri-
leges of Parliament. While he was on his legs he
begged to call the attention of their Lordships to the want
of law assistance at the Home-office. No man was more
sensible of the great zeal and ability of Mr. Maule ; but
he thought the public service was likely to suffer, if.
further legal assistance was not given in that department.
The motion was then agreed to, and their Lordships
Adjourned till to-morrow.

from imputing to any individual or to the Hon.
and Gallant Knight any desire on his part to
mark the toast of he: Majesty's health by disapprobation,
nor did he wish to impute any such feeling to the divines,
military officers, and agriculturists, who sat around on the
occasion ; but it was his belief that there was such
marked difference between the mode of drinking her
Majesty's health, and that of the Queen Dowager on
the occasion referred to, as practically to amount to an
insult to the Queex.
Mr. EWART said that he had received a letter
that morning in which it was stated that there was such
a feeling towards the Queen Dowager in consequence of
her Christian virtues that the writer, the Hon. Member
fur Suffolk (as we understood) was afraid of
making a speech on the occasion. Were not, he
would ask, the Christian virtues of her Ma-
jesty equal to those of the Queen Dowager ?
—(Cries from the Ministerial benches of " They are,
they are.") If so, then why give superiority of applause
to one over the other, or he should rather say why ex-
hibit that political feeling ?
Sir C. BROOK VERE said that the applause was
given at the mention of the Queen Dowager's name
from long acquaintance with her virtues. As to loyalty,
he begged leave to say that that association was a true
one, and the county which it represented equally so.
He (Sir C. B. Vere) held that loyalty was nut to be
measured by cheers.
Sir C. BURRELL was confident that a grosser insult
was never offered to the Queen of this country than that
report. Ile believed that at public meetings persons were at
liberty to express their good will towards any one without
any imputation of disloyalty The charge in the present case
was as unjust as it was indifferent to the party against
whom it was made.—(Cheers.) In his opinion the evi-
dence was not sufficient to justify the charge.
Sir E. KERRISON—I was present when the charge
was made by the Hon. Member, and then I knew it
to be unfounded. I have the honour to know
Lord Stradbroke well, and feel quite certain that
no man exceeds him in loyalty, and that the charge was
false. How does the Hon. Member justify that other
charge he made, that all agricultural associations were
turned into political ones. I deny that charge emphatically
I am President of an Agricultural Associaticn in the
county of Suffolk, and in order to render it wholly
free from having any
.political bearing, I asked for
and obtained the assistance of a Whig friend to
act as Secretary. I went further and introduced into
the rules and regulations one which was to the
effect that any Member who thought proper to
talk politics in the Association should b.- excluded
the Society. I defy any one to contradict any statement
I have made, and I am the Man to deny those of the Hon.
Member.
Mr. GIBSON—The Honourable and Gallant Mem-
ber was not present at the meeting. I was in-
formed by a gentleman who was present,, and he
said he heard the proceedings with great pain, and
that many other gentlemen had expressed the same
feeling—be himself heard some few hisses.—(Loud cries
of " Spoke.")
Colonel RUSHBROOKE denied that Agricultural As-
sociations were in any way made political engines. He
was to have presided over a meeting only last Friday ;
and, as he could not attend, he had written to beg a
Whig friend to take the chair.
The House then went into a Committee of Ways and
Means.
Mr. GOULBURN said as the House had made all
those supplies during the present Session which were
necessary for the public service, he rose, in conformity
with the usual practice, to state to the House the mode in
which he considered it advisable the ways and means
should be furnished to meet the supplies the House had
already voted,. and in doing so he believed ft would not be
necessary for him to trouble the House with lengthened de-
tails such as on octher occasions had formed so large a por-
tion of the addresses of the Chancellor of the Exchequer
under similar circumstances. So short a time had elapsed
since these details had been brought before the House,
and the country by the Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr.
Baring), and so few changes had occurred in the state
of the revenue or expenditure since that period
that he should only be unnecessarily fatiguing
the House if be were to follow the Right
Honourable Gentleman through those details, Which
he then explained to them, and which proceeding on
his part would be only a repetition, which he was sure
the House would be thankful to escape. He should
content himself, therefore, by briefly adverting to the
general result which the Right Hon. Gentleman then
communicated to the House, and stating to the House
what were the means by which they proposed to equa-
lize the revenue and expenditure, or in Parliamentry
phrase, to furnish the Ways and Means for meeting the
supplies. The supplies which the House had voted
during the present Session of Parliament amounted to
1,727,000 L, and consisted first of thatportion of the miscel-
laneous estimates which was not voted in the last Parlia-
went, of the Commissariat, and of the Canadaestimates of
which a part only was voted in the last Session ; and
to those votes left unsatisfied in the course of last Ses-
sion he had to add the supernumerary estimate for
the Ordnance, amounting to 67,000/, and a de-
ficiency in the Ways and Means last Session,
to meet the supplies then voted, 24,896/., making a total
of 1,727,432 L, which had been voted in Committee of
Supply, in the course of the present session, in addi-
tion to what had been voted in Committee
of Supply last year. The House was aware
there was a charge for payment of the interest
on Exchequer Bills, for which it was necessary ways and
means should be provided, which was no longer voted
by Parliament, but which was directed to be paid
by an Act of the Legislature out of the supplies for the
year, and must necessarily be taken into coesideration
as Ways and Means to be provided. The amount of in-
terest on these Exchequer Bills for the present year was
740,00 C/, which, added to the sum he had previously stated
as voted in supply of 1,700,0001., left a total of 2,467,432/.
The House would recollect that in the course of last
Session, when the Right Honourable Gentleman op-
posite took a review of the receipt and expenditure of
the country, he assumed the receipt to be a sum of
48,310,000/, and the expenditure to be provided for
was 50,731,0001. leaving a deficiency to nearly the amount
of what he stated as necessary to equalise the amount of
ways and means which had been voted in the present
Session. Tho sums were nearly equal because, in the
course of the preceding Session the Right Hon. Gentleman
had voted the whole of the Ways and Means for the public
service. The Ways and Means were nearly as equal as
he calculated would be the probable deficiencies of the
year. During the five months which had elapsed since
the Right Hoe. Gentleman had stated the deficiency, he
did not think anycircumstances had occurred during that
period to alter the views .he took of the probable
revenue of the country, and certainly he made no addi-
tions to the vote of Parliament beyond those small ones.
On account of the Ordnance Estimates there would be
little or no alteration to be made in the estimate be
formed of the total revenue and expenditure of the
year, and we are, therefore, on the present occasion,
to devise the means to provide for 2,400,0001 which
appears to be the deficiency of the Revenue of the year.
Without entering at length more into details which bad
been so recently submitted to the House, he would pro-
ceed to state the mode which he meant to supply that
deficiency fur which they were ,now called on to pro-
vide. The House was undoubtedly aware of the pro-
posal which but are* weeks since he made known through
the ordinary channels, for funding a portion of the
unfunded debt of the country, The object he had
in view was apparent from what he said, namely, that of
making a Mit:Lien of the unfunded debt to the amount
of two millions and a half: He did that beeettee he was
sensible that of all Masai' 68 *aid place the
finaneeti ef the aountty on an improved footing, that
of relieving themselves from some portion of the un-
funded debt was an indispensable preliminary. He
knew he might be told the attic:diet of the unfunded
debt had not been snch as would Justify a limita-
tion as to the extent that would be required.
But he would still adhere tie the principle Which he had
uniformly maintained in the,: House; that it was not safe
for the country to continue a larger amount of un-
funded debt than under the eireiniestetitte of the
country could lightly anti easily be borne, and he would
beg the House to obserte, that the pressure of the un-
fended debt urn the eetintey did net depend upon the
amount of millions of which it consisted, but that
the same amount might at different times be, in that
respect, very disproportionate ; and; that thefdfore;
though now at 20 millione, Wing fohneily been at 30
millions, theft might be Circumstances now which
called more loudly for a deduntivil than when
the nominal antotilit Melt Jaeger. As
long as Exchequer -Bills are the only safe
smithy, which gave daily interest as long as the
premium upon these bills was kept tolerably steady, as
long, he admitted, there was reason to believe that
the burden of the unfunded debt leas not greater
than the country! Was able hi teeth but when
a period had arrived in which, so far from being the only
safe security giving daily interest, they saw other secu-
rities, esteemed much by the public, coming into compe-
tition wiih them ' • when they knew that theft Were
certain Banks of acknowledged credit which gave a
larger daily interest than that'given on Exchequer Bills;
when they knew that a spirit of embarking, in which
might be considered a comparatively safe speculation
existed, in which larger profits might be made,
and when above all they considered that by the
change which had been effected in the Usury Laws, the
money which before lay in the hands of individuals, or
was employed at certain periods only in the purchase of
Exchequer Bills, was now emplayed in the more profit-
able purchase of discounts ; it must, he thought,
be evident to . every one who considered
subject, that the reduced amount of Exchequer Bill at
the present moment was in consequence of the altered
position of monetary affairs, to avhich he had alluded.
And for these reasons, considering that it was
difficult, without material loss, to add to the num-
ber of Exchequer Bills already in the market,
his first object was to effect a reduction of the unfunded
debt to the amount of 9,500,000/. He was happy to say
that as far as the object went he had at present been com-
pletely successful, that he would be enabled, by the sub-
scription which had been made, to afford that degree of
relief to the country. He had indeed another object in view,
namely, to explain to the public the amount which would
be required to be borrowed for the public service. He
did not wish that every man should subscribe his capital
to the public without knowing the demand which should
be made upon it, and he hoped to be enabled to raise at once
the 2,500,00C1. in money, which was necessary
to equalise the expenditure and revenues of the
country. The total amount which he had raised was
3,540,000/. thns relievinr, the market of the sum of
2,500,0001. from which he intended to relieve it
and leaving it to Parliament to make up the deficiency.
He might be told that he had offered to the public terms
which were either unfavourable to the Government, '
or which were unfair to the public.—(Hear.) He did
not, however, expect that this would be dwelt upon
by those who had attended at all to the transactions.
When the sum taken by the public was considered, it
would be seen at once that they had no reason what-

:it•

aver to be dissatisfied. On the other hand, he
thought it would elearlyapPear that the terms were such
as the Government were authorized to offer. Into the
details of those sums he would not at the present ino
ment enter. Unless any Hon. Gentleman opposite should
wish to have the whole detail of the calculations
he would irefely State; that, doripafing the terms of-
fered with those of antecedent pefiedg; they *Pete hot
higher in proportion to the rate of interest than those
offered in the year 1838, by the late Chancellor of the
Exchequer. Discussing them for any further details
of the basis upon which the calculation had been made,
which, however, he should be perfectly disposed to ex-
plain, if any Hon. Gentleman wished htm to do so.
Mr. Y. BARING inquired the amount of bonus.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
he calculated the bonus it about 18s. 10d. per
cent. The bonus in the case of Lord Mont-
eagle was 16s. 4d. The funds at the time when
Lord Monteagle made the bargain, was about 91, when
he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) made it they
were about 89.—(Hear.) The result of the arrangement
then was this, having cleared the market of 2,000,00e1,
he was called upon to show to the House the manner in
which he thought it expedient to raise the remaining 511111.
Part of the remaining sum would be paid by the money
ohtained from those who contributed this fund,
and therefore what the amount would be.
it was impossible for him at the moment to state.
—(Hear, hear.) He could not, until the transaction
.were concluded, which would rot be until the
payment of the last instalment, state
distinctly to the House what would be the amount of
money which had been available. This he would state
that in no case, supposing all the parties who had sub-
scibed to pay one-half in Exchequer bills, could it exceed
1,700,000/. on the whole amount.
Mr. BARING—HaIf the amount.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER begged
pardon, he meant half the amount. Of course under the
circumstances of the country he need not say, after all
that had lately passed in that House, that it would be
impracticable to attempt upon the present occasion to pro-
vide for the deficiency Ivhich:existed by any arrangement
which would leave taxation upon its present footing.
and therefore he should recommend to the House to
adopt that temporary provision which he believed every
• man who had spoken upon the subject in the Eons()
had thought necessary, and, which, however, it
was in his opinion,, and in the Opinion of them all,
to be deprecated as a permanent mode of meeting the
deficiency in the revenue was one which, under the pre-
sent circumstances, he thought that no reasdnable man
could see the least ground for objecting to.—(Hear.)
He was sure that the House would see that the attempt
under the present circumstances, so soon after the ac-
cession of the present Governthent to office, with the ge-
neral disposition that had been manifested, not
to embark in any lengthened discussion upon topics of
that nature.—(Hear, hear, from the Opposition benches.)
He was sure it would be found impossible to bring
lorward a Le -teral measure of taxation. It was
impossible to obtain even those accurate details
which might enable any one to say to what extent
the necessity for additional taxation might be dis-
pensed with. He should certainly feel himself
still more unworthy of the situation in which he Was
placed, if he were presumptuous enough at the moment
to lay before the House, a system of taxation to meet
the existing deficiency in the revenue. He should there-
fore simply state that by the resolution he had then
upon the table of the House, he proposed that they
should give power to the Government of raising either
by the sale of Exchequer Bills, or by the sale
of a certain portion of stock, that sum which might
be necessary to make the amount received in money
from the subscribers for Exchequer Bills, equal to the
2,400,00 a, and add which required for the public
service. He had left, in the resolution an option
of applying either Exchequer Bills or the sale of
stock to that purpose. He had done so, because,
anxious ashe was to realise his original intention of re-
lieving the unfunded debt to the amount of two millions
and a half, he could scarcely be assured of the effect if
he were at once to attempt to raise the sum in the shape
of Exchequer Bills. He had recourse to that plan also,
because ho thought that under these circumstances
hieh had been recently under their observation, show-
the difficult), of disposing of Exchequer Bills with
advantage to the Government or the public—and
he spoke rather of
.the interests of the public than
of the interests of the Government, because the sudden
introduction into the market of a large amount of Ex-
chequer Bills, which the public felt very severely. He
thought that, under the circumstances, the plan he pro-
posed would prove to be the least inconvenient ; and
he believed that it would he most advantageous to the
general interests, and less liable to derange the monetary
concerns of individuals to give the Government
the discretion of adopting either the sale of Exchequer
Bills, or the sale of stock in part. He did
not pretend to introduce a new principle, because he
was merely adopting a proposal which had already been
developed by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mc
F. Barin;.

(LEFT SITTING.)

NAVAL INTELLIGENCE.

(From the Hampshire Telegraph.)
PORTSMOUTH, SEPT. 25.—The Ringdove, 16, Commander
he Hon. Keith Stewart, arrived this afternoon from the
West Indies.
The Hazard, 20, Capt. the Hon. C. Elliot, arrived on
Sunday from the Mediterranean, and was paid off, all standing
in this harbour, to-day. She will be re-commissioned.
The Ardent steam-frigate, Commander John Russell,
arrived yesterday from the river, she will proceed early in the
week for the Brazils and Cape Station, taking despatches for
Admiral Sir E. King and Admiral Thomas.
The s'cylla sloop of war, and Braspble cutter, to act as a
tender, have been commissioned at Plymouth, by Captain
Francis Blackwood, for the purpose of surveying Torres
Straits, a place of frequent passage, but very imperfectly
known. Capt. Blackwood's attention is also to be directed to
the whole south face of New Guinea, and the many islands
hich lie between that Island and New South Wales, and
which now give shelter to hordes of Malays, but which, with
our increased commercial connections, must be cleared of
these pirates, and rendered useful. They present many fine
harbours, and are capable of yielding an infinite variety of
valuable products.
Captain Vidal, in the Styx, is intended to survey and lay
down on the • charts the exact position of the rock which has
been seen off Terceira, said to be thrown up by an earthquake
very recently.
The Viper, 6, Lieutenant Carter, fitting out in this harbour,
will be ready to proceed to Rio de Janeiro about the 25th of
October.
The Lynx, 3, Lieutenant Burslem, is rapidly fitting at
Chatham, and will shortly call at Spithead on her way to the
coast of Africa.
The Savage, 10, arrived at Gibraltar on the 3d inst. from
Lisbon, and proceeded to Malta the same day.
The Curlew arrived at the Cape of Good Hope from Mazam-
bique, on the 2d of July. The Andromache sailed from the
Cape of Gope on the 7th of July, for the Mauritius.
The Actaeon sailed from Lima for Valparaiso on the 16th
of May.
The Warspite, 50, Capt. Lord John Hay, has been ordered
this week to bear 500 men as her complement. This ship
will go to sea with the masts, spars, sails and rigging of a
small class 74 gun ship.
The Firebrand steam yacht left the River yesterday for
Ostend, to bring over her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent.
The Pelorus, 16, which vessel was stranded in a gale of
wind, in Port Essington, near Swan River, has been, by the
exertions of Lee officers and crew, again made effective for
sea, and arrived at Singapore, on the 23d April, in` command
of Cept, Copan
The nolnhin, Lieut. Littlehales, on the coast of Africa, a
few weeks since, seeing a suspicions vessel, sent two boats
and 15 men, under the charge of Mr. A. C. Murray, in chase
of her. After some brisk firing, and when some miles from
thB Dolphin, they captured her, when she proved to be a pirate,
and tile Vessel a beautiful brigantine. Sir. M. and another
man• being first on hef deck, were both wounded.
The Abercrombie Robinson, transport, was towed through
the Downs, and went down Channel, on Saturday last, with
800 of the 2d battalion Rifle Brigade, for Bermuda,
The Queen has been pleased to appoint Lieutenant Frede-
rick J. P. Henslow, R.N.,_to be a Naval Knight of Windsor,
vice Lieut. \V. Jones, R.N., deceased.
Messrs. Lang, Fincham, and Atkins, are now examining
minutely the state of the men-of-war in the Medway ; which
service performed, they will come to this port in the Comet
steattier, for a like examination of the ships here.
In Harbour—Queen, Victory, Excellent, Illustrious, IWar-
spite, Madagascar, 13elvidera, Royal George, Driver and Ar-
dent steam frigates, North Star, Rapid, Pantaloon, Viper,
Apollo troop-ship, Diligence naval transport, Carron and Echo
steartiere,
At Spithead—Ringdove,
A rroiNTMENTS.—Commander—Erasmus Ommanney, to
the Vesuvius steam frigate.
Lieutenants—A. P. Ryder, and R. Bullen, to the Belvi-
derfl H. Al. Flntid, to the Hazard.; P. Lowe, and C. G.
Rigge, to the Devastation ; Parkhurst, to the Styx* James
Johnstone and W. Butler, to the Ardent ; W. Wilson to North
Star.
Master—J. G. Mugford, to the Devastation ; Ashton to
the Styx; James Doidge, to Ardent.
Pursers—J. Grant, to the Devastation; J. Millingham, to
the Stye; W. Stanway, to Ardent.
Surgeons—J. C. Bowman, to the Tweed ; Henry Baker, to
the Ardent ; J. Elliott, to Devastation.
Assistant-Surgeons—T. Wells, to the Ceylon, for
_se_r.vice
Malta Hospital ; Dr. A. Battled, to the Viper ; A Satin
ders, to the North Star ; George Butler, to the Driver 1 ;
J H.
Paterson, tf) thp Dt.vastatioll ;J, Boland, to the Volcano ; Dr.
W. WOO) to the ktiml,
Secondiaster—t, .Po, to the hog&
M„.
Masters—R. W. Aleock, to the Excellent ; Henry Trollope
and -- Davis, to the Ardent ; It: Hopkins, and R. L. Reynolds,
to the Warspite ; A. P. Arkwtight; to the Pantaloon ; F. I .
A.
Selwyn, and H. D. Blankley, to the DevaFt.itJP.
Volunttets Ist Class—R. Dawkins, to the Harle(TlM ;G. D.
Murray and .8, H. Hatchell, to the North Star.
Clerks—George Munro, from the Victory, to the North
Star ; Henry Pinhorn Clerk-in-Charge of the Heroine; H. R.
Ccle Clerk-in-Charge of the Skylark ; E. Whitehead, Acting
Clerk to the North Star.

YOUNG M ENS) ANTLMONOPOLY
ASSOCIATION, MANCHESTER.
This Association held its second monthly Malting bn
Wednesday, the 15th instant, in the Concert Rooms, at
theAthemeum; Mr. Edward Herford in the Chair. The
room was well filled. The subject of discussion vvas—
" Are the Corns-laws just ?" which was introduced by
Mr. J. P. Culverwell in a \veil-reasoned essay, of which
• our space allows us to give only a meagre outline.
The object of these meetings is, that the members of
the Association may prepare themselves to meet and
successfully combat any of the numerous sophistries
with which the supporters of monopoly attempt to shroud
the subject. Mr. Culverwell very appropriately chose
for the first discussion the simple question of the justice
or injustice of the food monopoly.
After some prefatory remarks, Mr. C. stated that tho
avowed object of the Corn-laws was to secure the corn-
grower an artificially enhanced price ; that 80s. per
quarter was the price aimed at by the law of 1815, and
635. by that of 1828 ; this object to be attained by tax-
ing foreign corn so as to prohibit its admission, except at
famine prices. It follows, of course, that the Corn. laws
compel us to give more labour for our food. Suppose
that we now give Bd. for the loaf which would other-
wise cost 6d., we are just as effectually robbed of 2d.
for each loaf that we buy as if it „ere taken from us by
a sharper. L 1 the ona case it is the law that takes the 2cl.