The Sun.
London, England, 1841-10-06 00:00:00

EVENING NUN

by the late Government in different communications, lts
well from the Throne as from Ministers, in both Houses
of Parliament, It was true he- brought in the existing
law and advised- its adoption, and he could not recollect
whether it met with the opposition of the Noble Lord op-
posite or not ; but he had at different times since
discussed the question, and had endeavoured, by perusing
important documents connected with the principle of the
law, to refresh his memory on the subject. He had some
knowledge of the subject, but it stood in a different
light now from what it did when he breug,ht
it forward in the first instance, because they
had' the . knowledge of the last, the preceding, and
the other sessions to guide them. Therefore the ques-
tion now stood in a different position from what it did
some years ago, and they must give it deep attention,
and not eubmit any scheme on the subject to this or
the other House of Parliament which was not fully
considered, and considered not only with reference to
the other questions with which it had been connected in
the different motions made in the other House of' Parlia-
ment, and discussed in that House, but considered also in
reference to treaties with other Powers, and the treaties of
other Powers with each other, and combining with those
considerations the general relations connected with the
social system of the country. He agreed with the Noblo
Lord that it was a most serious question, and not to be
taken up in a hurry, but must be maturely considered.
The Noble Lord had mixed up with the debate of last
night some conversation:which occurred two nights before,
and had taken erroneous views on that occasion also,
What he said wet, that in tome parts of the country
great distress existed, but that the distress did not
arise from any want of food in the country.
What he said was that there was no danger of want of
provisions. The Noble Lord himself had stated that
there were 1,700,000 quarters of corn in the country,
and he (the Duke of Wellington) knew that there had
been 1,200,000 quarters in store at the commence.
ment of the present Session of Parliament, making -
in all nearly 3,000,000 quarters. lle therefore concluded
that there could be no distress arising from the absolute
want of corn. There was distress, Do doubt, owing to
want of work, deficiency in the wages of labour, and
other grounds, into the consideration of which he would
not at present enter; but he never heard from any one
whatever of any practical measure which could
relieve such evils. They were the consequences of
a variety of causes which Parliament, if it sat till next
February, could not remove. He was sorry to have
troubled their Lordships, but he thought it right at. least
to state what had actually passed on a former occasion.
Lord KINNAIRD wa; glad of the Noble Dukes ce-
planation, because it removed an erroneous impression
which had gone abroad. The present Government was
brought into power by monopoly, and it could hardly
be expected that any effectual measure for the alteration
of the Corn-laws would be passed by them. They
called for time, and he believed they required it.
for the materials of which the Government was formed
were of so heterogenous a nature that a considerabk
time must elapse before they could concur upon any one
measure, or perhaps it would be requiree, to
turn one or two of the Members out of the Cabinet
in order :to bring it to a proper mind.
He had certainly thought, after the speech of the Noble
Earl, and the speeches which had been extracted from
the lion. Baronet at. the head of the Government, that
they were prepared to state to the house the principles
upon which that Government was formed. Like the
Noble Lord who had preceded him, he would warn their
Lordships of the danger of delay. He received
daily accounts of the great distress which prevailed, and of
the danger of postponing the consideratlOn of measures
of relief. The Government was ttling upon itself a
heavy responsibility ; and it Ir9s nothing more nor less
ban burking the question te, prorogue Parliament with-
..

out considering the starving condition of the people.
The Duke or WELLINGTON said that with re-
ference to the prorogation of Parliament the Noble Lord
must be aware that he had asked a most improper
question. He did not know what the Noble Ltird meant
by the word " monopolists ?"
The Duke of RICHMOND said the Noble Lord must
have been after the stag-hounds when he (the Duke of
Richmond), had made die speech referred to. What he
had said was, that if Sir Robert Peel came into office and
was mad enough to support the Bs. fixed duty, he would
tell him and those who supported him that the
landed interest, who had helped him into
power, would not have the slightest hesitation
in turning him out. He had made use of no threat, but
he only answered the arguments of his Noble Friend.
He would not be led on that occasion into a dis-
cussion of the Corn-laws. He was not one of
those who thought that the Corn-laws ought never to
be altered, but if they were altered, protection
should be afforded to the agricultural interest.
His Noble Friend had been reading the productions of
the Anti-Corn-law Committee at Manchester, and no
doubt thought he had correctly stated his (the Duke of
Richmond's) sentiments; but he thought it would be hest
to make ihis explanation.
Lord CLIFFORD (of Chudleigh) was happy to hear
from the Noble Duke that there was no fixed
time to which Parliament was to be prorogued,
and therefore that the . people might entertain
some hope that their distressed condition would be taken
into consideration much earlier than was generally sup-
posed. He had no fear for want of food in the
country, but what he dreaded was increase of discentent,
for which he saw no remedy except a temporary coining
forward, on thepart of the aristocracy, especially that part
that had shown themselves the riehest at thelasteke.niook„
Thig country was burdened with a debt of 800 tr,
and while it was so, it would be impossible for there to
frame a Corn-law such as they might do if it did not exist.
The very fact of the delay so strenuously
upon by the i,resent Government, showed that the
work of governing the country was one of
considerable difficulty. The country had a
right to expect their Lordships to come forward with
that assistance w hich would be necessary for the suste-
nance of the poor during the time which her Ma-
jesty's present Government delayed their measures.
While he was on his legs he begged to oive notice that
early next Session he would move for the appointment
of a -Committee to inquire whether it was not in the
power of the Governor of Madras to protect her
Majesty's subjects according to the law as set-
tled in 1833. That inquiry was rendered necessary
because the Noble Lord, the Pr6sident of the Board of
Control, appeared to be as unable to understand
that law as his (Lord Clifford's) speeches.--(Hear.)
The Marquis of NORMANBY did not know whether
it was necessary to trouble their Lordships with a
rather extraordinary letter he had received from a Mr.
Lacon, ho had charged him with having taken
steps to suppress: the production of certain papers
with reference to proceedings that had taken place
in the borough of Great Yarmouth. The letter was
written in complete misapprehension of the facts, for
their Lordships were aware that the correspondence was
not produced, because the Noble Earl who had put the
question to him had not moved for it.

SLAVERY.
Lord BROUGHAM rose to call the attention of their
Lordships to a subject of very great importance, and on
which, as there existed happily no difference of opinion
in this House or the other House of Parliament,
and as there indeed was a singular unanimity on the
would be the less necessary for him -to trouble
question in every part of the kingdom, it
their Lordships at any very considerable length. The
subject was the slave-trade and slavery, and he
believed there ex:sfed in no part of either House of
Parliament or the country any description of persons
who felt otherwise than the strongest and most
intense desire to see that traffic extinguished, and
to see the state of slavery as universally as with all prac-
ticable expeditidn extinguished. The ground upon
which he felt it necessary to trouble their Lordships
on the present occasion, was, that great misapprehen-
sion, he understood, had gone forth on the state
of the law respecting both slavery and the slave
trade, as it at present existed in that country.
He had presented a petition to their Lordships, ten or
twelve days ago, containing a variety of allega-
tions upon that subject, and he had distinctly
stated at the time that the truth of the
allegations and the responsibility for the accuracy of
these statements must rest upon the respectable petition-
ers who had brought the matter before the House.
It would appear that a large amount Of the capital
of the country was embarked not only in maintaining
slavery in foreign settlements, but actually in supporting
and maintaining the- slave-trade itself. He deemed it
to be expedient, in going over the different settlements. to
specify those parts in which he understood
be
from the best attention he could give, not to
contrary to the law as it now stood—those settlements
which lie deemed to be of doubtful character, thoseandi..
ite a
d.
set-
tlements in which it was elearly and distinctly prre alley
°1 .e
Now, as to the first class, those things which
in the petition to have been done by British subjects,
-0 ; the
and which he took to be clearly contradictoryrt'l3;
world,
law was that any British subject, in anylg;r: slave' trade
whether in that part of the world Lanny
was lawful or illegal—that any
world where
subject even in a part 0- but encou-
raged slave-trade was not only allowed,
country)hat that
raged by law (if there-were such
British subject, was a
slave-trading, if partaken in by a r
to life was that British
British,
felony. Liable to transportation
Admiralty—liable to be
within the jurisdiction of thes
if that slave-trading act
transported for fourteen years, it subject, if he committed thatft‘
in the Admiralty juris-
was committed otherwise.
though not within the Ad-
diction. In like manner,
act of
on the 'high seas, or.,
of slave trading were
miralty jurisdiction., tn
was allowed, and he .would
country where slave trading
the law of the country, it was a
suppose encouraged
British subject was liable to be taken
for which a
committed by a Britit'srhadsinughject, though in a colony or
felony,
and tried in settlement of the British Crown, or if
taken an
this country, he was liable to be
tried as if the act were committed in the county of kid-
dlesex, and on being convicted to be transported as a felon
for 14 years. He (Lord Brougham) trusted,after stating this
be
he should notquoted, as lately, to his great
astonish-
ibllro a
brought into
nient, be had been, as having said that it depended on
the law of the foreign country whether a British subject
committing certain acts was guilty of felony or not ;
whereas he had most expressly stated that the law of
foreign countries was utterly immaterial as regarded a
British subject, and it was even certain, no doubt,
that if a foreigner, not a British subject,
committed an act of slave-trading within our settlements,
he was also liable to be dealt with, if within the Admi-
ralty jurisdiction, as if he had committed piracy and
felony, and to be transported for life; if not, to be trans-
ported for fourteen years. The only question was, did
any given act amount to an act of slave-trading or not?
Several of the facts mentioned in the petition, which ha
had presented to their Lordships, appeared to him nut
to amount to slave-trading—others were of a doubtful
description, and others were, in his opinion, clearly
and undoubtedly, acts of slave-trading within the mean-
ing of the Act. If a person were to fit out a vessel to
traffic with a slave factory, and if he were to sell goods.,
to 'the persons residing in that slave factory, although