The Sun.
London, England, 1847-01-21 00:00:00

IRON SHIPS OF WAR.

Mr. R. YORKE wished to ask the Secretary to the
Admiralty whether it was true that sixteen iron ships of
war had been ordered without previous inquiry of their
powers and efficiency for the service. Also, whether the
report of the Admiralty of France, showing the utter
inefficiency of iron ships for the purposes of warfare, was
not in possession of the Government at the time the said
ships were ordered.

Mr. WARD said the best reply he could give to the
Hon. Gentleman was, that the iron steam-ships to which
he referred, were ordered by the House last session, on
the motion of an Hon. Member opposite. He believed
that no report had been made to the Admiralty of
France setting forth the utter inefficiency of iron ships
for the purposes of warfare, and that no experiments
had yet been made by the naval authorities of either
country to test their capacity.
Mr. WILLIAMS wished to be informed whether the
progress of the iron-steamers, which bad been ordered,
had been suspended?
Mr. WARD replied, but was not audible in the gal-
lery.

AGRICULTURAL STATISTICS.
Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN wished to ask whether
the Government had fulfilled the promise made through
the Right Hon. Gentleman the Vice-President of the
Board of Trade (Mr. M. Gibson), and directed their atten-
tion to the subject of agricultural statistics during the
recess, and whether they proposed bringing forward
any measure on the subject ?
Mr. M. GIBSON replied that the subject had re-
ceived the attention of the Government during the
recess, and that a measure was now in progress which,
when some of its details had been decided on, would be
laid before the Elouse—he hoped on an early day.
LIBRARY COMMITTEE.

On the motion of Sir R. H. INGLIS, the following
Committee was appointed to assist Mr. Speaker in the
direction of the Library, and all matters relating
to it:—Sir R. H. Inglis, Mr. Chancellor of the Exche
quer, Lord John Russell, Sir Robert Peel, Mr. Goulburn,
Mr. W. Wynn, the Lord Advocate, Mr. Shaw, Viscount
Palmerston, Viscount Mahon, Major-General Fox Mr.
Solicitor-General, Mr. Pendarves, Mr. Acland, Sir W.
Somerville, and Mr. Monckton Milnes.
On the motion of Sir H. INGLIS, leave of absence
to Mr. Colquhoun' for two months, on account of ill
health, was granted.
POOR-LAW..
. Captain PECHELL moved for a return from each
poor-law union and parish in England and :Wales of
the number of non-rtsident 6milies and persons who
were in receipt of relief on the 26th day of
August, 1846, distinguishing those who have since
become chargeable to the unions and parishes
in which they were residing at that period.
He said the return referred to the extraordinary ope-
ration of a Bill passed last session, entitled the Poor-
law Removal Bill, the working of which had proved
most injurious to the poorer classes. It had
created the greatest consternation in the coun-
try, and had benefited none save the legal
authorities connected with the various unions, who, in
fact, were living upon plunder derived from the poor.
The non-resident had been harshly treated, and had in
many cases had relief altogether suspended so far
as they were concerned.—(Hear, hear). There were
several persons now thrown upon the humane
guardians of certain unions for whom they had no
no right to provide, and the Gilbert Union, at the pre-
sent moment, paying both ways. By the operation of this
Act, no less than 1,110 families, consisting 0f1,621 persons,
had been thrown upon the Gilbert Union at an expense
of 285?... per week.., In the town of Brighton, with which
he was connected, no less than 1,452 persons had been
thrown upon the rates, and the guardians of that
union, rather than refuse these poor people as-
sistance in their necessity, or of litigating the
case, and voluntarily undertaking their support of the
expectation that the House of Commons would pass
some measure, during the present session, for their
relief from this oppression. He could not help think-
ing this was a matter which might have been introduced
into her Majesty's Speech, for certainly it was
of much more importance than the County Courts Bill.
On the 19th of January it might well be supposed that
the state of Ireland would occupy a prominent position
in her Majesty's Speech ; but even that, he considered,
a subject not paramount to the alteration of the poor-
law. He trusted that the Government would grant
these returns, as it was fully expected that the House
of Commons would grant the relief which was so
earnestly sought.
Mr. BANKES said that it was with great pleasure he
seconded the motion which had just been made, and' he
took that opportunity of giving notice of an intention
which he had bad previously of bringing a formal pro-
position before the House, and on Friday next, he pro-
posed to do it in the shape of an amendment to the
motion of the Noble Lord, in which he should submit to
the House a proposition for the immediate repeal of the
Poor-law, which was at that moment doing the greatest
mischief in the country. He held in his hand a petition
from his own parish, which had been greatly injured, in
the county he represented, by the operation of this law,
and he believed that in a few days he should have
petitions from almost every parish in that county,
speaking of this petition, which he should take that op-
portunity of presenting to the House ; it purported t 6
be with reference to the least important portion of the
evil, viz., it had reference to the additional burthen
thrown upon the rate-payers, while the more important
porticm -..,by far was • 'that adverted •to by the
HonMirable Member -who just spoke, viz., the ge-
neral injury inflicted upon the poor. He believed
that those who ventured to suggest objections to
this Bill when it passed—he was one who suggested
many amendments, every :one of which was negatived—
and those who promoted the Bill had no conception of
the mischief it would create. For that reason he sbould
be acting inconsistently with his duty if he did
net take the earliest opportunity possible of sub-
mitting to the House the immediate and total re-
peal of these laws. He should ne answered by the
Noble Lord that the question of whether the measure
should continue was one of tee subjects which he p. o-
posed to submit to the Committee, the constitution of
which he should offer to the consideration of the House
on Friday ext. llis (Mr. Bankes'e) answer would be,
that during the deliberation of the Committee the
grievance ought not to continue, if it were in their
power to put an end to it at once, and sure he was, that
whatever might be the result of their deliberation, that
law, as it now stood, ought not to remain another hour
upon the statute-book: He, therefore, concurred en-
tirely in the propriety of the motion of which the Noble
Lord had given notice, with reference to a lull
consideration of that law. The amendment which
he should submit was—' That it is eecessary to
inquire into the operation of the Act 9 and 10 Victoria,
chap. 66, passed during the la.t session of
as to its effects upon the comforts and ciinditien
of the poor." Such an enquiry must neces-
sarily tend to show the m cessity of altering the
statute materially, or of removing it altogether.
With regard to the other subject alluded to by the Hen.
Member, there was no doubt that some time would be
required before the full information could be obtained.
lie would, however, support the motion of the Hon.
Gentleman for that information which he required.
He trusted that country .11( mbers would contribute to the
information of the House on this subject by the results
of their own personal experience, and render unneces-
sary any Committee on this subject.—(Hear, bear.)
Sir GEORGE GREY had no objection to the pro-
duction of the papers moved for by the Hon. Member,
but as the Hon. Gentleman opposite had stated it to be
his intention to bring this matter before the House by a
specific motion, he trusted that the House would not
countenance the discussion further at the present time.
POOR-LAW AUDITORS.

Mr FERRAN') would trespass on the House while
he called the attention of lion. Gentlemen to the con-
duct of the poor-law auditors. It woul Ibe difficult to
describe what injustice was inflicted on the poor
by these functionaries. lie would be able to convince
the House that it was their duty to rescue the poor from
the clutches of these poor-law auditors. He would men-
tion one instance of the harsh conduct of these officers.
It was the custom in the town where he
resided to direct the parish constable to relieve the poor,
and he was in the habit of providing the destitute with
a lodging, food for a short period, and a small sum to
assist them on their road. But what was the case at
present. Why, the poor-law auditors had intimated to the
constable that he should discontinue the practice.
The auditors of several unions had threatened to corn-
mence actions against the guardians if they gave relief
to any person in opposition to the orders of Somerset-
house. He hoped the Housa woul I take immediate
steps and inquire/into the charges which he had brought
forward.
Mr. B. ESCOTT was convinced that half of the mise-
ries resulting from the administration of the present poor-
law arose from the ignorance or laziness of those ap-
pointed to administer it. There was no law prohibiting
out-door relief; there was only an order of the Poor-law
Commissioners, and even that was not absolute.
There were several exceptions to the operation of
that order, such as eases of sudden emergency,
On a former occasion he asked the Right Hon. Baronet
opposite whether the power of regulating out door relief
lay with the Commissioners or board of guardians in cases
of emergency arising. He said he would take some time
to consider the point, and in a day or two he returned
an answer to the effect, tnat the board of guardians were
alone the judges- of what should be considered cases of
emergency. If so, what right had those guardians to
say to the poor men, who had lost their leod through
the fdlure of the present year, that they
could not be relieved out of the workhouse ?
The guardians had no right at all to act in this manner.
Feeling apprehensive that the distress now prevailing
would increase greatly before the next harvest, he was
desirous that the poor-law guardians should know the
powers rtitiosed in them, and exercise them in a proper
manner.

Mr. SPOONER agreed with the Hon. Member for
Manchester, that the guardians should know their duty,
and the powers conferred on them by the law. He knew
however, that in cases where the guardians ordere,t out-
door relie,, the auditors disallowed it. He knew of an
urgent case in Worcestershire, wherein the auditors
refused to sanction the relief ; the item of relief was
struck out, and the guar Hans charged with it.
Mr. P. BORTHWICK agreed with both his Hon.
Friends who had just spoken. The one stated the law
of the case correctly, and the other the facts which had
resulted from its administration. For his own part, he
believed the law was bad, because it vested unconstitu-
tional power in the hands of Commissioners ; and the
facts which had just been stated showed that the admi-
nistration of the law was as bad as the law itself.
The motion was then agreed to.
ADMISSION OF SUGAR INTO DISTILLERIES.
Mr. CHRISTOPHER wished to ask the Noble Lord
at the head of the Government, whether it was his in-
tention on Friday next, to ask the opinion of the House
upon a
.permanent measure with regard to the employ-
ment of sugar in breweries and distilleries ? Was the
MEIRV.II7O to be pernmeut or only for Period ?