The Sun.
London, England, 1824-03-02 00:00:00

seen that his object was merely to defend himself. He (the
Attorney-General) fully admitted that the Honourable and
Learned Gentleman had said nothing to justify the state-
ment made in the' report of his speech ; but nothing could
be more likely than for a person who was not profession-
al to confound the distinctions which, undoubtedly, had
been accurately drawn by the lion. and Learned Gentleman.
The Lord Chancellor had no doubt expressed himself in Un-
guarded, though indignant terms ; but he repeated that every
person who had seen his Lordship with the paper in his hand
must have seen that he alluded to the uncontradicted report of
the. Speech of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. When the
Noble and Learned Lord found himself unjustly charged with
having evaded an.l perverted the law, it was not toe much to
ask for him an indulgence of those- feelings which must be na-
tural to an honourable mind ou such an occason. If the House
allowed their proceedings to be published, and occasionally
misrepresented, and allowed thesantisrepresentations, though
unintentional, terpass Uneautradieted ; it was a little too much
to ask that the privileges of the Ilouse should be enforced
against a person who defended himself against such pi:contra-
dicted misrepresentations, eien thOugh his defence should be
offered too warnily.—(Hear, hear Hon. and Learned
Friend (Mr: Scarlet) had referred to an assertion that the Bar
had become degraded. He was sorry to hear of such an asser-
tion ; and more so to find it noticed by his Hon. and Learned
Friend.. As far as his own knowledge and experience went
::e was enabled to state his firm conviction that, at no period of
our history was the independence of the Bar so complete as it
was at present ; an independence which must be observed by
every one who attended our Courts, and must their witness
the great attention paid by the MeMbers of the Bar to the in-
terests of their Clients ; and the frequent instances in which
the opinions and decisions of the .ludges were called in ques-
tion. In conclusion lie would only observe that the knowledge
of the misrepresentation and the comment upon it, were im-
mediate on the part of the Lord Chancellor, and that there was
therefore, in his opinion, no just ground on which the House
could entertain the motion.—(Hear, hear, hear !)
Mr. SCA RLETT explained. He had not adopted the as-
sertion that the independence of the Bar had lessened. lie be-
lieved that it continued as it hail been in its acknowledged
independence ; but lie thought that the preservation of that
independence was to be attributed to the firmness and exer-
tions of his own Members.—(Cheers.)
Mr. TIERNEY said he thought he should be wanting in his
duty if he gave a silent vote on the present occasion, or forbore
to state the reasons on which he came to the conclusion that the
House ought to entertain the motion of his Hon. and Learned
Friend. Every one must be satisfied with the statement of his
Hon. and Learned Friend, and that no one could stand higher
than he did. On the part of his Hon. and Learned Friend, it
was therefore unnecessary to say another word. But what was
to become of this Calumniator ; this Lord Chancellor ? No
Honourable Gentleman on the other side of the House had
denied the charge brought against him; but no Honourable
Member had said that he was authorized by the Lord Chan-
cellor to make any acknowledgment. And, if his Lordship
had really a desire to humble himself, he (Mr. Tierney) be-
lieved that the lion. Secretary for Foreign Affairs would be
the last person on whom he would fix his choice as the hearer
of that submission.—(A laugh.)—After arresting the Right
lion. Gentlemen on his foreign travels, it was not likely he
would choose die Right Honourable Gentleman to be his de-
fender at home.—(Laughter.)--It was rather singular, perhaps
unfortunate for the defence of the Lord Chancellor, that the
only paper which be did not take time to consider, was that
which lie complained of himself; and yet :vas the paper which
was relied upon for die Noble Lord's defence.—(Laughter.)—
The Noble Lord had long been charged with being a doubting
man, but now they were called upon to acquit him, because it was
said he was a rash one. The motion before the House was in
accordance with their forms, as it proposed to ascertain, in the
first instance, whether the words now imputed to the Lord
Chancellor had been uttered by him ; and he (Mr. T.) was for
agreeing to this motion as a preliminary measure, leaving what
was to be done afterwards a matter for future consideration. The
usual course afterwards was, to call for the attendance of the per-
son charged at the bar of the House. But such attendance could
not be compelled in the present case, on account of the rank of the
accused ; and it therefore would be necessary in a future stage to
consider of the proper and constitutional means of asserting the
privileges of the flouse. Yet would the House, on this ac-
count, decline acceding to the motion, and say that they would
not go on, because they did not know how to get at the de-
fentlantl• The inotion before the House was the usual one in
such a case, even though they should not be inclined to press
the matter to extremities. This wah the casee somewhat re-
,cently, with Mr. Hope, who had been put to the inconvenience
of coating L'dinburgh to attend at die Bar, and was dis-
charged on' efOrrilition, attributing what he had put forth
0
to the irritated feelings, of, sh moment. The Attorney and
Solicitor General, who had always, as Attorney and Solicitor
Generals, very kind feelings for a Lord Chancellor—(a laugh)
—had proposed the not pressing this motion, because the Lord
pronounced very rashly-7-
N.ClulowncbeleliLl.7l,.3reeQatd hild
awsetlillybealinedve that much had occurred
within the last five yati in' that. House to ruffle the amiable
temper of his Lordship. The motion which had been made re-
specting his Court, and which had been met with so little argu-
ment front the other side of the House; the recent intimation
which he must have had from his political friends that although
they might be able to secure him a majority in that House ;
yet that h e
not must
commission for enquiring partial sacrifice, and consent to a
into the Court; all these circum-
stances could suibtmhaitvtt icontributed to disturb that amiable
temper for which he had been so often, no doubt, so justly
praised. As for the newr
per in question, the House were
bound to suppose his 14 ship bad borrowed it,--(a laugh)—
because, as it was last Wednesday's paper, it was hot likely
that lie kept it by him unseen until Saturday. It was said by
the Hon. and Learned Solicitor-General, that the remarks of
the Lord Chancellor were directed to the paper, and not to his
Hon. and Learned Friend. But, L
had Lie paper a gown upon
scheers from theOpposition.)—There
were t
gowns
upon their backs alluded to, and
the allusion could only be to his Hon. and Learned Friend
the Mover, and his Hon. and Learned Friends the Members
ibacGice ?(Laughter,
tlemenwith and
for Winchelsea and Lincoln (Mr. Brougham and Mr. Williams.)
He was sure that the Hon. and Learned Solicitor-General, in
any case professionally entrusted to him, would never descend
to such a method of escaping from a difficulty. He thought the
Housee*coituhrseanto be after taken might not bo a very
appearance of reason reject the
motion,ctohuoludonotht
clear one. Perhaps, an &Polo*, would be made, and the Lord
Chancellor would beg Pardon and yet, he would be ruined in
his character of a Judge if he were to go into his Court and say,
" On Saturday last 1 hastily and without inquiry or considera-
" tion, threw out unfounded reflections on one of the Members
" of the House of Commons; I am sorry I did so, and I beg
" pardon." He believed the Lord Chancellor to be a most able
Judge, and one of the most perfect integrity ; but he was free to
confess, that lie did not think the country had received blessings
enough from him to induce a violation of parliamentary rules in
order that he might be let off.—(Cheers.)—liedid not think it pro-
per to allow his Lordship to Say, " I am to say what I think
good, because I am a Lord Chancellor of 20 years standing."
Neither did he think that because the Chancellor's rank and
situation threw difficulties in their way, they were therefore
to do nothing at all. Their privileges ought never to be exer-
cised or talked of again, if they passed this over. People out
of doors never would draw the nice distinctions which the House
did. He implored them to consider before they rejected the
motion ; to consider what they could possibly say to any sensible
man out of doors who should put to them the plain question—
" Why did you not enforce your privileges when they were
attacked by a Lord Chancellor ?"—(Cheers !)
Mr. Secretary PEEL said the Right Ilon. Gentleman had
given a singular kind of advice to the Flouse. He had recom-
mended them to take the first step at once, and leave the second
to after consideration. He (Mr. P.) thought it would he better
and wiser for them to consider first as to what would be their
ultimate course before they engaged themselves in any diffi-
culty at all.—(Cheers from the Ministerial Benches.)—The case
before the House, in his opinion, included two questions, which
appeared not to have been kept sufficiently distinct. The first
was, whether there had been a breach of privilege; and the se-
cond, whether, if there had, it was of such a nature as to
threaten any individual Member of that. House for discharging
his Parliamentary duty. As to the first question, he would
really beg to remind the House in how many cases breaches of
privilege took place, almost necessarily, without notice being
taken of them. They were often themselves guilty of breaChes
of privilege, by alluding to what takes place in the other House.
Nothing was more common than to speak of its proceedings, or
" the proceedings of another place," which was of course a
mere erasion. In fact it might be worth their consideration
whether it would not be better at once to keep their privileges
within nominal bounds, which could more conveniently be ob-
served. The case now before the House arose, in the first in-
stance, out of a breach of privilege.—(Hear, hear !)—This was
a circumstance to be borne in mind, for there was no getting
rid of it.—(Cheers.)—lle agreed with his Right Honourable
Friend that it was desirable to permit the publication of their
proceedings, on account of the advantage which attended that
publication, but then it became necessary, in fairness, to con.
cider the consequence of this permission. A speech made, or
reported to be made, by a Member of that House, was printed
and wafted all over the British Empire, indeed wherever the
English language was spoken or known. Such a report con-
tained charges deeply affecting the character of a Judge, and
such a report was unfounded. In such a case, if the House per-
initted the publication of their debates, was it possible for them
to prevent the feelings of wounded honour from expressing a de-
fence to such a charge. He believed it was impossible, he
could not say that he wished it to be otherwise. Such feelings
would have been wounded in consequence of free and unrestrict-
ed discussion ; and they ought to be allowed a remedy by the