The Sun.
London, England, 1812-04-25 00:00:00

, But, Sir., the 1-1(n. Gentlemen opposite, have an-
other reason is by the Veto' has been rejected. It
is supposed to be so rejeded, because ine person
who has now the honour of addressing you- hap-
pens to be a Alini,ter. If I were not ttie Mi-
nister, the Veto would be. accepted. Why, was
it my being a• Minister th tt induc'ed Dr. Milner to
say he would rather suffer martyrdom than accept
it ; But it is absurd to maintain that the Catholics of
Ireland did not refuse this interference in the no-
mination of their Bishops. Sir, in all that I hate'
ever said, on all occasions when this silbjed has
'come under discussion, I hare neyer opposed the
Catholic Claims on religious grounds : yet,, I must
say, if they have really - renounced all their ob-
noxious dothines, they do not ad very. wisely or
prudently. We see the Bishops in Ireland holding
Synods :, why do they ,not in sane Synodal Meet-
ing openly and publicly renounce these docti ines
We are told they consulted the most celt brat( d
Universities: what did that establish ? • Little or,
nothing.—Why did -they not go to the foun-
tain head at once ?—Why did they not- go to
the Pope himself ?—Why did 'they not get from
him a recognition of their abjuration of these
doatines ?,—An Honourable Baronet had recom-
mended, on the preceding evening, a work en-
titled Trußatus de Ecelesice, as something which
would highly instil& and gratify all-who read .it.
I, have got a Tra6latus de Ecclesim, not indeed the
exad- 'one mentioned by the Hon. Baronet, but one
published with the sanction of Map-moth College.
It contains instruelions for the youth educated there,
and it tells them, among other things, that all coun-
cils are infallible. Now, though I do.not wish to
fix my own. interpretation upon matters of faith be.;.
lieved by others, .yet • I do- maintain, that if they have
denounced the doctrines imputed to them, it is not
quite fair to instinct the youth in them.. Toe influ-
ence of the Catholic Priesthood is acknowledged
both by the Right Hon. Gentleman and the Noble
Lord, but that it may not be thought I am alluding
only to past times, to Monkish ages, 'to ilte period
when Papal supremacy was at its height, I will,
with the permission of the House, read some ex-
traas from a recen:-publication, by Dr. O'Connor,
which prove that that influence is yet to be appre-
hended.—[Here Mr. Perceval read several passages,
tending. to spew the nature of foreign influence
over the Roman Catholic Clerco, —t lie Pope's spiri-
tual power in Irel itid, From. all this, Sir, the
Hous may see that the spritbal power is mixed, is
intimately blended with the temporal ; and if Ca-
C.olie Bishops are to be nornioatect•Without any con-
troul trom the Go.ernnient, it is not easy to see to
what extent they may become dangerous agents rn
the ha,nds of the enemy. If, howevet, in our zeal
for Emancipation, we are to overlook every thing
except the Roman Catholics, why then let us esta-
blish 'heal at once ; let us put their Bishop's into •
our Bishopricks, their Priests into out ReCtories, any .
admit them. into the House of Lords. This, per-
haps, will conciliate them; but, in my opinion, it
would cot be reasonable to expeCt that they should
stop there. The example of 1793 teaches_us that to,
concede is only to provoke fresh demands.

[The want of adequate room prevents us from
continuing the rest of the Right Honourable Gen-
tleman's .speech with the same minuteness, we shall
therefore hasten to its concluding sentences.] .
The great and leading ground which influences me
in the vote which I stall give, and the pail w fah I
have taken, is the danger which I conscientiously
believe would result to the establishment by admit-
ting
,the Catholics to political potv,er., My opposi-
tion, however, is founded upon present circum-
stances. I do nor say, that because emancipation
is not granted now, therefore it never will. I think
there are strong reasons for a contrary opinion.
These very papers that lie on your table, prove that
a great movement has taken place in the Catholic
mind. Who can predia to what's hat movement may
copdua ? They may discard the power of the
Pope : they may do much to induce me to alter my
present opinion. I must wait, howeVer, for tads
before I can decide. Yet I do confidently look
forward. to the time when a cons!derable changi -
will take place in the Catholic populatiou of Ire-
land ; but that change will not be brough:, about
by force, nor by power : -it will be produced
bys-knowledge and learning ; and when I see what
talents, and What. minds are displayed by, those
who support the CAtliolic Claims, I .em justified in

auguring the most aulricious results when ihoie ta-
Jews shall be fairly applied to the consideration of
the great question between us. Is there -any., thing
intolerant or bigoted in this ?" I repeat, that I do
expert, that I do look forward with confidence to
a considerable change in a very short time. I
cannot believe tlrat all.those revolutions which have

happened, and ' are still happening, in Catholic
Europe, will be prodOefive of no etre:A upon
the Catholics of Ireland. They unist open their eyes;
they must awaken their understandings. lam ac-
tuated by no feelings of hoitili•y towards the Ca-

tholics of Ireland ; there is no ad of ch.nity-ort kind-
ness which I should not feel unfeignedly happy to
shei.v them : jhi9 is sincerely the, language of my
heart ; but, at the pre:sent moment, I do power-
fully feel, that to concede their claims, would. be

imminently to endac!zer the church Establishment
and the. Constitution. (Load find repeated cheers).
WRITBREAD spoke at con%iderable length in
in -favour of the motion. He replied to most of the
arguments of the last Speaker, and vindicatt;d the
Catholics from the charges which had been prefer-
red against them. On the subjea of-what had
bpen said with reveal to flit: c 'tidal of the Ptince

Regent, he asked when he bad chosen for a Minis-
ter one who was the only bar to the wishes of the.
Catholics of Ireland, was it too much that th-y
complained, a&ing thus, he b,id disappointed the
which were excited by him whegkPrince of
Wales? He censured the observations which had
been made on the usual incapacity of the lower or-
dersin Ireland to fill the situation to which they as.
Aired. The Right Hon. Gentleman (We Chancellor
of the Exchequer) had said, that the Af-t of Unioo
stood -in the way of concession; were his colleagues
all unanimous upon this point ? ridiculed the

. .
Petition from Oxford, and the proceedings of the
Common Council in Ireland with respea to Major
OTionaghne ; and concluded with exhorting the
Catholics to patience, under all rejeaions and in-
sults. .