The Sun.
London, England, 1847-04-01 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE 01 COMMONS. March 31.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)

WIDE STREETS (DUBLIN).
air. GREGORY moved for a return of all sums of
rafJney handed over by Sir John Kingston James, late
treasurer to the corporation of the city of Dublin ; also,
of all sums paid by Lord Charlemont and the Wide
Street Commissioners to the credit of the corporation of
the city of Dublin ; and if same has been applied to the
liquidation of the debenture debt, or to what other pur-
pose, and, if any part of such debt has been liquidated,
the date and particulars ; also a return from the Wide
Street Commissioners of the city of Dublin of all sums of
money lodged by the said Commissioners in court, as
purchase money of certain premises belonging to the
.Lublin Corporation, the legal proceedings thereupon.
`the judgment pronounced by the Court, and the cost of
such proceedings• and a copy of the deed of 1819, by
which trustees were appointed for the management of
the debenture debt of the Corporation of Dublin, the
legal proceedings to remove such trustees, the judgment
pronounced by the court, and the cost of such proceed-
ings.—Motion agreed to.
THE CASE OF DICKSON v. PAPE.—EXCISE

_
LICENSE.
Mr. GREGORY also moved for returns (in addition
to the Sessional Paper, No. 662, for 1845) showing, in
sta additional column, and opposite each spirit grocer's
same, the rate or amount of excise license duty which
the judges decided, in the case of Dickson v. Pape,
to be that which ought to have been charged and
paid by each spirit grocer for his license respec-
tively ; and of the amount received by the
Excise from each such grocer during the period
he took out and renewed such license, from the sth day
of July, 1838, until the sth day of July, 1844, similarly
arranged. Also copies of all memorials addressed to the
Treasury by spirit grocers in Ireland, from the Ist day
of January, 1845, to the Ist day of March, 1846, praying
that such excess of duty received by the Excise should
be returned to them; and copies of the answers returned
to each such memorial.—Motion agreed to.
BOYS IN THE NAVY.
Mr. HUME moved for a return of the number of
boys entered on board her Majesty's ships or vessels of
war, from the first day of January to the 31st day of
Deoeniber, 1846, according to the following form:—
First Class Boys, entered the Navy for
first time
second time
Second Class Boys, entered the Navy for
first time .... .
second time

Total

From whence obtained :
Greenwich Royal Naval Asylum
Marine Society School
Other sources

Total

Could write and read
write or read only
neither read nor write
Good scholars
Doubtful ..
.

Total

Petty Officers, Seamen, or Boys, invalided
discharged
deserted
deaths

Total

Motion agreed to.
APPRENTICES IN THE NAVY.
The HON. MEMBER also moved for an abstract from
the Register-General of Shipping, showing the number
of boys apprenticed from the Ist day of January to the
31st day of December, 1846—for three years, four years,
five years, six years, seven years, and total number.
Agreed to.

CHARITABLE TRUSTS.
The HON. MEMBER also moved for a message to the
lords, that they would be phased to communicate a
copy of the minutes of evidence taken before the Select
Committee of the House of Lords, appointed to consider
a Bill, intituled, An Act for securing the due adminis-
tration of Charitable Trusts in England and Wales.
Agreed to.
NUMBER OF RECRUITS IN THE ARMY.
The Hos. MEMBER withdrew the motion of which he
had given notice respecting the number of recruits in
the army who were enlisted from the Ist day of January
to the 31st of December, 1846.
REGARDERSHIP OF THE NEW FOREST.
Mr. TRELAWNY moved for a return of the name
of the officer who held the Regardership in the New
Torest then vacant; the duties and emoluments of the
office; when the last election of a Regarderer was con-
tested, and the number of freeholders of the county of
Hampshire who were polled at such election; the names
of the present Regarderers, and the amount of fees, sa-
laries, and emoluments received by each during the
years 1843, 1844, and 1845, and the perquisites, if any,
received by them.
In consequence of some suggestion from Lord JOHN
RUSSELL, which did not reach the gallery, the motion
was withdrawn.
SELECT COMMITTEES.
Mr. AGLIONBY wished to call the attention of the
House to the circumstance of his having been, as
chairman of a Select Committee, Group No. 28, ap-
pointed to meet on the 19th of April, while at the
same time he was appointed to serve upon two
other Committees—the Standing Orders Committee and
the Committee of Private Business of the House. He
hoped, therefore, that the House would relieve him from
one or other of his duties.
PAUPER LUNATIC ASYLUMS.
Mr. NICHOLL wished to ask the Secretary of State
for the Home Department, whether her Majesty's Go-
vernment contemplated any alteration in the law respect-
ing pauper lunatic as lums, whereby counties or
boroughs, having no asylum for the pauper lunatics
thereof, will be relieved from the duty of erecting or
providing such an asylum, in conformity with the pro-
visions of the Act 8 and 9 Vic., c. 126, and 9 and 10 Vic.,
c. 84, or whether it is intended to enforce the perform-
ance of that duty?
Sir G. GREY said that it was not in the contempla-
tion of the Government to propose any alteration in the
law, and the Government would take care that asylums
should be erected in the counties and boroughs where
there were none at present.

THE POOR REMOVAL ACT.
Mr. REDHEAD YORKE asked the Secretary of
State fur the Home Department whether it was the in-
tention of the Government to repeal the Poor Removal
Bill this session, if there should be no general revision el
the poor-law system?
Sir G. GREY said that the Committee on the subject
were pursuing their inquiries into the operation of the
la-v, and till they made a final report he could not say
what the Government would do with regard to it.
The Prisons (Ireland) Bill and the Troops during
Elections Bill were severally read a second time, and
the first was ordered to be committed on Monday, the
12th April.

IRISH LANDLORDS.
Mr. HAMILTON rose to make an explanation con-
cerning certain charges lately made by the Hon.
Baronet, the Member for Mary lebone, with respect to
an Irish landlord, of the name of Longfield. The Hon.
Member defend. d Mr. Longfield, and concluded by say-
ing, that that gentleman had subscribed 250/. to the re-
lief committees near his property.
Sir B. HALL said that he made his statements from
a return ordered by that House on the 4th of February,
and he had no wish to misrepresent the conduct of any
Irish landlords.
Mr. LEFROY entered at some length into a defence
of the Irish landlords, and read extracts from several
letters he received from them, expressing their indigna-
tion at the unjustifiable treatment they received in that
House.
SUBSCRIPTIONS FOR THE RELIEF OF THE
POOR IN IRELAND.

!qr. YOUNG wished to call the attention of the
House to a return which had been moved for in the
month of February last, stating the amount of private
subscriptions made in Ireland for the relief of the poor,
and giving a detail of names and amounts. He had re-
ceived very many letters from Ireland of the report
which must be made, in answer to that motion.
—(Hear, hear.) It was a report which would do
great injustice to all parties ; it would gratify
the ambition of the rich and ostentatious, who wished
to have their charity appear before the public ; while
those less able to co4tribute, or more modest, would
be passed over entirely. He did not think it was a
return which ought to have been moved for, or if moved
for, that ought to have been allowed by the House,
considering the great personal injustice it would inflict
necessarily on individuals.
Lord HARRY VANE agreed with what had fallen
from the Hon. Gentleman opposite, and thought that
before the returns were furnished to the House steps
InlihtetioLbtl. Gentleman e taken to prevent their ever being published.
immediatel opposite would give notice that
returns should nort;hhee recess he would move that these
Vane) would seconir
ented to the House, he (Lord
Sir G. GREY begged tOra.
ceret the misimpression
that the returns would be
made
74,h a view to gratify
the ostentatious, but rather to
ostalandlord ought
at,the same
of some exceptions in Ireland, how by the example
to discharge hi 3 duties. He might
Lime that as regarded the whote amount
charity, that might be found in the papers airr...,pfivate
fore the House, and he did not think it would be era, to give it in a separate form. He believed, however that it was perfectly legitimate for the House to order
return of the amount of private charity in Ireland; but,
eif course, if it were intended to specify the sums against
the names of the individuals as owners or occupiers, he
could not concede that it would be either proper or
prudent.
Mr. YOUNG said he objected to the document only
so far as it was intended to show the private charity of
Xhe Irish landlords.

- Mr. POLTLETT SCROPE said if there might he
ceptions, no one could yet doubt that the Irish landlords,
lenerally, had neglected the poor. Ile bad mass of
etters and documents which could immediately
prove the contrary—were it disputed. He could
not help referring to a report made by a Coat-
mission of Inquiry, issued in 1834, about the
time when the cholera was raging in Skibbereen.
That decument stated that the subscriptions in aid of
• the suffering poor had nearly all been from the towns-
people, and little or nothing had been subscribed by the
landlords. One of these proprietors, with a rental of
4,000/. a year, had given nothing ; another, with 1,500 L
• year, had withdrawn his subscription from the dispen-
ray. The subscriptions made amounted to 47/, and

nearly all had been received from the town. They had
written to the non-resident landlords, none of whom had
given any answer whatever except four, and these
had given 1 11. ss. out of a combined rental of 6,0004
a year. These circumstances naturally made an impres-
sion on the public mind, under which they bad thought
necessary to provide for the poor by a compulsory impo-
sition on the landlords, and ho trusted he might see that
fully settled before the end of the present session, which
would be the only means of ultimately setting these dis-
cussions and causes of discontent at rest.
Mr. S. O'BRIEN thought the Lion. Gentleman who
had just sat down had lost sight of a necessary distinc-
tion between his own remarks and those of the Mem-
ber for the Dublin University. The Hor!Member
for the University rose to vindicate universal character,
and, upon his resuming his seat, up got the Hon.
Member for Stroud, and made a general charge against
the Irish proprietors, stating that he had a mass of
documents and correspondence to prove that they had
neglected their duties. Yet the Lion. Gentleman ended
with a hope that these discussions might be set at
rest. Why, there never would be an end of them if
Honourable Gentlemen, without any connexion with
that country, or local knowledge of it and the
people, continually busied themselves in its affairs.
It' old stories and old charges were to be raked up in this
way, the landlords of Ireland would be discouraged, and
it would be one way to cause the great experiment
they were about to make to fail—the poor would
be embittered against the rich, and the poor-laws
would work most ineffectually. He sincerely thanked
the Noble Lord the Member for Durham (Lord IL
Vane) for the observations he had made. He hoped
his Hon. Friend would not interfere with; he presen-
tation of the return, as the Right Hon. Baronet.
the Secretary of State, for the Home Department had
stated that there would be no objection to pro-
duce a list of the grants of public money side
by side with the local donations. The imperfect
nature of the return ought to tell a lesson to
the Government not to grant returns so easily, and
when they could not accurately give the information
required. Now they were about to separate he thought
it right to take that opportunity of thanking the Govern-
ment for the kindness and patience with which they had
listened to the suggestions which had been made,
and for the way in which they had passed
the measures through the House.—(Hear, hear.)
Their desire for the amelioration of Ireland deserved
the gratitude even of those who had opposed the measure,
and he himself had proposed some amendments.—(Hear,
hear,) In his capacity as a magistrate, he should carry
out the measure in the temper with which it had been
passed.—(Cheers.)
Mr. V. SMITH hoped Hon. Members would not,
when they were about to separate, prolong a discus-
sion of this nature. As far as the return went it was
accurate, but it would not enable any one to judge of
all that had been done. Even the name of a
friend of his, who had greatly befriended the poor,
was not mentioned. Much more could be done for the
suffering people if landlords and others would personally
superintend the distribution of aid, instead of leaving it
in the hands of others. He would suggest that
the Honourable Gentleman should move, when the
return was brought up for presentation, that it
should not be printed. He thought the measure
ought to pass without obloquy being cast upon those
who would be intrusted with the carrying out of the
measure.
Mr. GOULBURN suggested that the Government,
in the absence of the Hon. Baronet the Member for
Marylebone (Sir B, Hall), should intimate that a com-
plete list of the subscriptions would be furnished, as it
was necessary that they should be informed what had
been raised in addition to the grants made by
the Government. The return in its present form
was most fallacious, and would lead to the inference that
many parties had negleeted their duty who had, in fact,
done a vast deal to assuage the sufferings of the people
of Ireland. It was not right that they should stand be-
fore the country as criminals. With respect to the Bill,
he might state that he was strongly in favour of a ge-
neral rate for the support of the poor.
Mr. LABOUCHERE regretted that he was unavoid-
ably absent during the earlier part of the discussion.
His Right Hon. Friend had intimated that there would
be no objection to furnish ample lists of the Govern-
ment grant and the local subscriptions—(Hear, hear)
—and his Hon. Friend would not lay the return referred
to in the course of the discussion on the table until the
Honourable Gentleman the Member for Cavan had
had an opportunity of bringing forward any statements
which he had to make with respect to it. He could not,
however, help availing himself of that opportunity to
state that nothing could be more unfair than to measure
the amount of aid which had been afforded to the
people by the amount of the subscriptions raised
in the different localities, as many had expended
money on the improvement of their estates,
and in the establishment of soup kitchens
in their immediate localities.—(Hear.) Ife hoped it
would go forth to the public that subscriptions by
persons in Ireland was not the bast way of relieving
the prevailing distress, as employment in cultivating or
reclaiming land, or in some other way, was far more va-
luable.—(Hear.)
Mr. TRELA.WNY said it had been urged that
that was not the proper time to frame a poor-
law for Ireland, as the public mind was un-
Fettled on the subject, and consequently that it
could not be properly carried out. Now, that appeared
to him the coolest and most extraordinary statement ever
made, as a vast number of the people of Ireland were
absolutely dying of hunger, and consequently standing
in the immediate need or such a measure. Charity, he
thought, was a most unequal and indivious mode of taxa-
tion. A Noble Lord in the other House (Lord Monteagle)
had stated, that out-door relief to the able-bodied would
prove most dangerous ; but he had not shown how the
introduction of the system would produce evil.
The report was then brought up.
Sir GEORGE GREY proposed the following amend-
ments :—Clause 1, after lino 16, to insert the following
words—" And of such destitute persons as being disabled
from labour by reason of severe sickness or serious acci-
dent are thereby deprived of the means of earning a sub-
sistence for themselves and their families, whom they
are liable by law to maintain ; and of destitute poor
widows, having two or more legitimate children depen-
dent upon them." In Clause 2, line 7, after the word
" disabled," to insert " Or destitute poor persona dis
ebled by sickness or accident as aforesaid, or suchdesti-
tute poor widows as aforesaid."
The amendments were ordered to be made to the Bill,
and the report was agreed to.
CLSTOMS DUTIES BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
ARMY SERVICE BILL
The Peonse went into Committee on this Bill.
Sir DE LACY EVANS wished to say a few words in
reference to what had fallen from the Honourable and
Gallant Officer the Member for Liverpool (Sir Howard
Douglas) last night, and also in regard to some obser-
vations made by the late Secretary at War (Mr. S.
Herbert). He regretted he did not see the latter Right
lion. Gentleman in his place, while he (Sir De Lacy
Evans) made the few remarks he had to offer. That
Right Hun. Gentleman had stated the fact, that with the
exception of the non-commisseined officers in the
army, the great body of the soldiers were of 15 years'
standing in the service—that was, he said, the natural
period of the service in the army. He (Sir De Lacy
Evans) must say, after that expression of opinion, and
considering the well-merited respect which was due to
the Right Hon. Gentleman for kindness to, and great
care of, the army, he confessed he was :astonished at the
deduction which he made in recolamending that the
period of service should be reduced only one year. Ile
trusted that the Hon. Geretleman would alter his
opinion of the question; teed to induce him to do so he
would recal to his recollection the warrants which he
issued in 1845, giving the privilege of enlistment for
twelve or fourteen years. The proposition of the
reduction of one arear would be perfectly nugatory
as a benefit to the soldiers. With regard to
what had fallen from the Hon. and Gallant Member, he
would remark that what he had stated about the money
of 800,000 dollars must have arisen from an error of
the press, He (Sir De Lacy Evans) had looked over
the dispatches, and was convinced that such must
have been the case. The dispatch of the Duke of
Wellington, which the Mon. and Gallant Officer bad
quoted in reference to the Peninsular soldiers,
so far from going against the present measure, hg Was
persuaded, was rather in its favour, as it showed that,
even in the midst of a moat important verse, a limited
enlistment had not been found prejudicial, The greater
proportion of the Hon. and Gallant member's address,
however, bore about as mach relation to the mea-
sure before the House, as a'enderden steeple bore
to Goodwin Sands. While, referring to the Duke of
Wellington, he would tp:fte this opportunity of thanking
him for his recent elr_vation of so many officers from the
ranks. During th
past year no less than 43 non-com_
d
missioned officers had been raised to ensigns and cornets.
—(Hear, heal-,) This was but a tardy act of
justice, and I'ol:towing out what had been done for many
years in France, Russia, and other countries.
There were no less than four individuals who, in his
hunabl'e Opinion, were far better qualified to come to a
rittt decision on this motion than any General in the
fermy.—(Hear, hear.) These were, the Noble Lord
now at the head of the Foreign Department (Lord
Palmerston), who had been for nineteen years Secre-
tary at War ; and the Secretary for the Colonies,
who had also fur some time been Secretary
at War. The others were two gentlemen who had
been also Secretaries at War. The Hun. and Gallant
Member opposite had thought it right, because the
Noble Lord at the bead of the Government had declined
giving the correspondence between the Ministry and the
Commander-in -Chief, to assert that the Noble Duke
at the head of the forces was quite opposed to the rs'ins
eiple which they had adopted ; and a morning pa- 4bad
r.eut what was
thought proper to abuse him for having difr_ered from
th, lion. and Gallant Member opposite.
the ewes? W •
ter had desersls" would read the
deepateb _ hy, if the lion. Member
more than, Tintilae Noble Duke, who hell not been lauded
etrious services era illustrious charac-
little more ~ack----if they would read these dispatches a
ineenlnunications with the GO-
Opinion eeas ec4a-a,
itit.T.,erynwtoutoldwsohoat: pihteardhcaedivfre(bletheunaent
frequently
vp.),retmsereresendt.
weistenhis
arsntdate of
,:aethe troops sent
told them that, altlitnte
line and the
discipline,o ver
were
yet tahte y first
or sotn losti that Vsgcehicis
efficiency with which they first arri these communications the Noble Duke ha.:l in all
pressed the necessity for improving the morale oatfedlY
army, and had urged the wisdom of enlisting a be tt theer
set cf men, and of increasing the pensions of the men
who were entitled to their discharge. This opinion,
then, came in well to support the decision of
civilians, and he was, therefore, justified in
asserting that civilians were fully competent
to judge of such a measure as this. The Noble
Duke had stated that it was of all things most important
to raise the character of the men in the army ; and in
this opinion he was supported by s man eminent for his

Sir DE L. EVANS said that after the statement of
the Right Hon. Member the Secretary at War, ho felt it
his duty to state his opinion, that it was desirable for the
Hon. fsnd Gallant Member to withdraw his clause.
Colonel LINDSAY had the fullest confidence in the
Qovernment with regard to this clause, and had no ob-
jection to leave the matter entirely in their hands.
Major LAYARD then withdrew his clause.
The House then resumed, the Chairman reported pro-
gress, aid the report was ordered to be brought up on
Monday, the 12th of April.
FEVER (IRELAND) BILL.
HARBOURS, DOCKS, AND PIERS CLAUSES
BILL.
PORTLAND HARBOUR OF REFUGE AND
BREAKWATER BILL.
The reports on the above three Bills were brought up,
and they were ordered to bo read a third time on Mon-
day, the 12th of April.
The other orders of the day having been disposed of,
the House adjourned, at a Quarter-past Five o'clock,
till Monday, the 12th of April.
DEM

OLITION OF THE OLD
HOUSE OP LORDS.
Yesterday morning, at tn early hour, a number of
workmen, under the direction of Mr. Barry, commenced
the demolition of thr old House of Lords, formerly well
room in which I,
known as the Ps.i-ated Chamber of the Palace, and the
Their Lord.i-ji 7,,iward the Confessor breathed his lass.
ps held their last sitting on Tinsilay in this place, associated with so many histrorical recoll
tions; and the work of destruction now going forward
is fir the purpose of making tht necessary entrances into
'.ne New Houses for the re-assembling of their Lordships
after the Easter recess, Their Lordships will resume
their legislative and judicial duties in the New Houses
on Thursday, the 15th of April.

REGISTRY of BIRTHS and DEATHS
DURING THE WEEK ENDING MAR(.I,II 27.
Desthe registered in the week. Births registered in the
Males ... ..• 484 Males
Females ... ... 545 Females • 691
... • 685
Total . 1,029 Total ... 1,376

1 Dispatches from the Governor of the Falkland Islands
were received yesterday at the Colonial-office.
ONE OF THE "Poon IRISH."—On Friday morn-
ing an emaciated, tattered, and miserable-looking object
from the Emerald Isle manage d, along with a boy, to
secure a passage by one of the early trains from Ardros.
Ban to Glasgow without a ticket, and seemed to co'..i-
alder himself safe on arriving at the terminus in Brides
e_
street, by declaring his utter inability to pay. Ar Z 4,.„
bargo, however, was laid upon a bundle belongir-e t'oThe-
Irishman, and after repeated attempts to railway officials to dive
it up, ho untied b'
and paid his fair of 28. 6d. from a store • '
twenty sovereigns, which he had eon P° .rsuado th©
of nsot
'Ailed irk that article
of clothing-, when his bundle was r t less neckcloth,
than
e 8
‘).te(l. him.—Glas.
gow Argus.