The Sun.
London, England, 1823-02-21 00:00:00

;:ittenOt, thatitti •Tecenflorough • meeting in" Cornwitll, a letter I
had been read to the. Corporation, from a Noble *Peer, then
the pattern Of the borough, declining to Ire such patron any
longed ; and report added, that he had Nodal:reel, becalm he
wriest) ditigusted at the numerous. applications Which had been
Made for his patronage by the voters of the borough. When
this letter had been read to the Corporation, one of its members,
.a 'Member, too, of that House,e-(11 car, hear !)—rose, and pro?
posed that it should be offered to another Noble Lord, it Mem-
ber also of the Upper House ;—(11 ear, hear, bear !)-.-and
with
"mind to this offer, it was tq...be eabservetl, that the last-neen.
tinned Noble Lord, had no property. or connection within 100'
.mileaof the borough ; so that the argument about the fair in-
abode of property and connection, fell to the grotin4, and
there was no possible doubt, that the transfer of patronage
was to be fur a plain, substantial, valuable consideration. All
this was notorious ; and ite notoriety could,nat but confirm
the suspicions'of the people, respecting the coiretitation of that
House. lie feared that what was proposed by One side of the
House, was generally opposed by the other. But yet, he sub-
mitted to the House, that the information he sought was neces-
sary, in order that they mightecome to a fair cousideration of
the queetion of Reform. Whetever might be the opposition
made to his motion, or what its result, lie was convinced he
should have the vote of every unprejudiced man, and thateif
the motion were to be rejected, the country would be itaisfied
that the House was afraid to have its own constitution known
to the public. The Noble Lord concluded by moving, " That
a 'Select Committee be appointed to enquire into the right of
voting on the Election of Members to serve in Parliament
for Cities and Boroughs, and the number of persons exercising
that right."
Mr. Secretary CANNING said; he was sure the Noble Lord
would admit that he (Mr. Canning), had not only informed
him that he should oppose the intitiorae but that he-had also
stated the grounds of his intended oppolitione He should not
enter into the larger question' which was connected with this
motion, but should confine himself to the merits of the spe-
cific motion itself. He knew, however; it would be felt by the
public, and this must be acknowledged by the Noble Lord,
thet if this Motion were carried, it would be thought that the
general question of Reform hail made considerab.e progress,
and that the opposition hitherto made to it had in. a great mea.
sure been withdrawn. He believed that in one lie was sure that
in the other of these suppositions, they would be mistaken. He
should, however, guard himself against drawing any inference
as to the possible consequences of the motion ; and, its he before
observed, should meet it on its own grounds. So meeting it be
had not the least hesitation to say that the motion involved the
most arbitrary and eyrannical principles. Many of the points
to which the examination of thin proposed Committee would be
directed, had already been ascertained and decided by the
House. The right ot voting even Contested Elections stood
recorded upon the ,Journals. As to these, therefore, the pro-
posed Inquiry was unnecessary, beetnise the Journals them..
selves tould be referred to at once. But as to those Boroughs,
the right of which was not so ascertained, many of them were
held by Charter ; and were these Charters to be exposed to ex.
amination, and consequently, perhaps, to forfeiture ? Such a
proposition had never, he believed, been made in that House
since the reign of James the Second. 4t would be as great a
stretch of power in the blouse to call for such an examination
as it would be in them to call for an examination of the title-
deede of estates._(Cheers from the Opposition, echoed by the
Minasterial Benches.) - Many private rights were founded upon
Charters; advowsons, for instance, and many othere. Yet
would the House call for the examination of 'these Charters of
unoflbnding Corporations, to enable, 'perhaps, some attorney,
I who bad no practice, but much spirit of inquiry, to affect the
I rights of individuals under them ? •
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, his motion did not propose
the examination of Charters.
Mr. Secretary CAN NINO said it certainly was so stated in
the notice of motion giVen by the Noble Lord.—(-The Right
Hon. Secretary here referred to the notice which mentioned
" Charters.")—He would then take it as the Noble Lord's !no-
tion now stood. Ile did not propose the examinationlof Char,
tars. Then how was the object of the motion to be obtained l_
(Heer, hear, hear!)—True It was, that the Noble Lord had
admitted he did not expect perfect accuracy ; but how was any
information to be obtained beyond that populat floating know.
ledge to which the Noble Lord had alluded? He (Mr. C.)
contended that no more accurate information could be ob-
tained witshout the examination of Charters t and the sort of
popular knowledge in question was never contested by the op-
posers of Parliamentary. Reform. If it had ever been disputed,
then, indeed, the Noble laird would have a right to call for ac.
mate information. This species of knowledge was never, to
his recollection, denied in the course of the many debates which
had taken place on this subject long before the Noble Lord had
taken it under his protection. He (Mr. C.) never remembered
the fact, that Boroughs, containing very few voters sent Mem-
bers to Parliament to have been denied In the speech of any one
Member who opposed Parliamentary Reform. For his own
part he had always set out in his argument, upon the very ad.
mission of this fact. fie always, for instance' conceded the feet,
that two voters only sent Members for Old Sarum. No point
was ever made upon a supposed denial of this, or sash a fact.
No obstacle was thrown in its way. His opposition to Perlis-
mentary Reform was, that the House ot Commons, with
all these acknowledged imperfections, was adequate to the
performance of all its constitutional 'duties ; and that lie,
and those who thought with him, dreaded change more than
they desired improvement. He should not now go into the
argument, whether he was right or wrong. All that he said
was, that there never had been any disposition to dispute the
assertion upon which the necessity of a .Reform in Parliament
was advocated. In short, all was admitted in the way of fact,
which the Noble .Lord desired, fur the benefit of his argument.
And, after all, he observed the motion of the Noble Lord was
imperfect ; forlie did not call for the number of voters in the,
different .counties. This could be ascertained without much
difficultyeparticularly Judie Irish counties, to all of which the
Registry Laws applied. But with respect to the number of voters
in cities and boroughs, he mould ask the Noble Lord by what
smile the Noble Lordevould proceed: If he intended to go by
the elections whiclehad taken place last Session ? If he did, the
return as to all the places at which there had been no contest
must be nil. And even in those at which there had been con-
tests, the return would be 'inaccurate, unless the polling had
proceeded to .the exhaustion of all the voters. in Liverpool,
for example,. the electors, at the election before last, were
polled to a considerable number, but at the last, election he
believed not more than two hundred had been polled. With
this doubt, therefore, and this uncertainty, a popular estimate
would be quite sufficient for a popular argument. That esti.
nutte was conceded to the Noble
.Lord aby his opponents, so
that, even in his own view, the returns he wanted, were quite
unnecessary. The object of some wase to cut oft' these .pec.
cant parts of our Constitution ; but, that of the Noble Lord
was to retain them, notwithstanding their degradation. No
man ever had been, or ever would be so absurd, as to foUnd
his case upon an argument in favour ofe close Loroughs. It
was admitted that they .were small,
,and limited, .both as re-
garded' the functions they were destined to perform, and the
share they had in representation. All this was admitted, and
whatever force the admission could give to the Noble Lord's
argument, he had no wish to deprive hint of. He did not
' think he would gain any thing trout it; but bethought great
prejudice would be arrayed aguitist it, were the House to sanc-
tion such a cause. When first the Noble Lord gave notice of
his motion, he had applied himself to consider how far it would
be practicable to procure the information he desired, without
the instrumentality of the evil% he had pointed out. But he had
failed in his endeavour to devise the means, •To a Committee%
therefore, for such purposes,, he'objected. First, far the rea-
souhe. had mentioned, that tile effect of it must be to bring the I
Charters of the Boroaghs into question before suclea tribunal al,
and next, bemuse he was convinced it Would bring on the goes.
lion as to that title,,coneiderehly more than the Noble Lord,
in his candour, had assured them he anticipated, hut ,not more
than his judgment inueeinform him it would te pushed. He
wished to avoid the prejudice which must he raised on the one
hand, and on thenther he could see no poseible way of arriving
rot the contplcte information desired by the Noble Lord. His
other reason was, that whatever. benefit the Noble Lord could
derive from the full completion of his hopes from the motion,
was already in his possession, as far as admission or concession
could give It to him. In declining to give his support to the
Noble Lord's motion, ,he assurred him Ito tliii it without the
smallest feeling of hostility, and without any desire to throw
any impediment in the way of the motion he warp abtiut to
bring forward oii the main - question.- Ile would be ready to
meet it, when it clime, with perfect candour. It touched, be
apprehended, no feeling or passion that could find a place in
that House. At least so he felt it. WI would meet it with
temper ; but for the present Ire must oppose the motion be-
fore the House, at being, for the Noble Lord's purposes, unne.
cessary,—(llear, hear fi
6 Mr. ABE RCROM assured the Right lion. Gentleman
opposite (Mr. Cenning), that after listening with great atten-
tion to what lie had said, be could discover only two grounds
upon which he opposed the motion of hie Noble Friend ; one
of which existed only in the imagination of the Right lion.
'Gentleman, and the other was founded only upon an exalt.
geration, or, he should rather say, an unintentional misrepre.
eatitation of his Noble Friend. In proceeding to examine them,
he would put entirely out of the question the Right Hon. Oen-
tlemen'e views of what was or was not for the good of his Noble
Friend. Hie Noble Friend desired certain mformation, fur
which he moved ; and with all deference, he must beg leave to
tiny, that his Noble Friend was most likely to be the beat judge
of how far that iritarmation would' serve hint or not. Ile
sought it for hi* own purposes, and no doubt would know how
to deal with it. The Right Henourable Gentleman supposed
that the whole world was ripe and ready in the event of the
motion being carried, and time inquiry institnted to expect a
sweeping Reform. Then, if so slight a circumstance were