The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-11 00:00:00

THURSDAY EVENING-1 FEBRUARY ll, 1847

suggest, that in the event of the Committee being
granted, their inquiry should be directed to the levying
of an equal rate throughout all unions. It appeared to
him that it would be a great advantage over the present
union of settlements. It would at once open up to the
labourer an ample field for employment, while it would
revive that pecuniary interest in the rate-payer, which
was supposed by some to be of so much advantage.
The Duke of RICHMOND said, as the Noble Lord
had alluded to what had fallen from him with respect to
the Law of Settlement, he wished to say a few words.
He had stated, and he now repeated it, that a more
clumsy measure was never introduced and passed
than the Law of Settlement. It was origi-
nally proposed as a much more extended
measure, but half of its original provisions were left out,
and the lawyers did not agree as to the working of the
portion that remained. It had done great mischief, and
if acemmittee were appointed, and he should move for
one on a future day, the injurious effects of its working
could be proved. Nothing did so much mischief as the
continual alterating of the law of settlement, as the poor
found it difficult to ascertain, from the different views
that prevailed, any definite notion of the settlements and
the proper way to claim them.
Earl FITZWILLIAAI approved of the principle of
the present Law of Settlement, yet he admitted the
clauses were so involved that its working was most de-
fective and injurious. He thought that if the poor-law
guardians had certain rules laid down for their guid-
ance in matters referring to the removal of pampers, by
some central authority, there couid not possibly be any
ground of objection.
Lord BEAUMONT said that an evil of considerable
magnitude had lately arisen in the construction of cot-
tages upon the land at the lowest possible prices, and to
let them at the highest rents, without paying any rates
for them. Ho thought that with reference to the Poor-
law Settlement Bill passed last session, that it was a mea-
sure that was both just to the ratepayer, and generous
to the pauper. There was one point which the N
Lord who presented the petition should consider well,
that was, whether the fact of high wages being given at
some places might not act as a sort of advertisement fur
drawing paupers from the poorer districts.
The Earl of STRADBROKE was of opinion that all
property should be rated. He knew a place where there
were from 700 to 800 small cottages exempted from as
sessment. In Ilchester so great was the number of
houses exempted, that forty-five per cent. of the rates
were left unpaid.
Lord WALSINGHAIII agreed with the Noble Lord
that the small occupier should be rated, as it would give
them an interest in keeping down the rates as much as
possible.

CRIMINAL LAW AND JUVENILE OFFENDERS.

Lord BROUGHAM gave notice that, on Monday
next, he would present a petition from the magistrates
of Liverpool on the subject of the administration of
criminal law, and of juvenile offenders.

THE POUR REMOVAL ACT.
The Duke of BUCKINGHAM presented a petition
from Long Crenden, praying for the abolition cf the
Poor-removal Act of last session.
REDUCTION ON RUM.
The Duke of RICHMOND presented a petition from
the malt distillers of Huntley, Aberdeenshire, against
the proposed reduction of the duty on rum. The
petititioners thought that with the various restrictions
and burdens on them they ought not to be
subjected to an unfair competition. Ile hoped, there-
fore, their Lordships would do much to make a full
inquiry into the statements of the petitioners
before they assented to the reduction complained of,
and he was quite satisfied that Mr. Robinson,
the gentleman who signed the petition on be-
half of the other petitioners, would be able to
substantiate all the statements made if an opportunity
were given him, as he (the Duke of Richmond) hap-
pened to know that gentleman, and he would under-
take to say that he would not put his name
to anything that was not true.
Lord MONTE AGLE said he had recently received a
deputation upon the same subject, and he felt that he
could rely with confidence up,.n the information they
gave him. Ile thought the distillers of this country.
ought to be placed upon an equal footing with those
the colonies. The manufacturers of spirits in this
country were subject ty inconveniences and re-
strictions to which the manufacturers of spirits in
this country were not liable. The colonial manufacturer
could distil how he pleased or where he pleased, without
any control, while the manufacturer of spirits in this coun-
try was compelled to go through a number of formalities.
pay duties upon every ingredient used in their manu-
factories, and subject themselves to all sorts of restric-
tion and inconveniences imposed on them by Govern-
ment.—(Hear, hear.) He therefore thought some
alteration ought to be made in the law.
The Duke of RICHMOND presented similar petitions
from distillers in Elgin and Banff, and the towns of
Hamilton and Keith. The Noble Duke also presented a
petition complaining of the charge imposed on land.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented copies of
the correspondence which had taken place between the
Government and the Lahore Durbar during the
minority of the Maharaja Runjeet Singh, which was
ordered to be printed.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The SFEALER took the Chair at pour o'clock.
SECOND READINGS.

The following Bills were read a second time:—
East Lincolnshire Railway (Louth Navigation Purchase).
London and Blackwall Railway Improvement and
Branches to St. Katherine's and London Docks.
Windsor, Staines, and South-Western Railway (Rich-
mond to Windsor, &c.)
Windsor, Staines, and South. Western Railway (Staines
to Ascot and Wokingham, with Branches).
PETITIONS.
Mr. GREENE presented petitions against the North
British and other railways.
Lord DUNCAN presented a petition against the
Exeter, Yeovil, and Dorchester Railway.
Mr. DILLON BROWN presented a petition from
the barony of Westport, in the county of Mayo, praying
the House to establish food depots in Ireland.
Mr. BROTHERTON presented a petition from the
board of guardians of Salford, praying the House to
establish a poor law for Ireland which should throw the
maintenance of the poor upon the owners of the land.
Several Hon. Members presented petitions from dif-
ferent places, praying for an alteration in the Poor
Removal Act of last session.
Colonel CONNOLLY presented two petitions in ill-
s our of Lord George Bentinck's Bill for aiding the
Railways in Ireland.
Mr. BRIGHT presented petitions from Bury, the
city of London and Greenwich, praying for the abolition
of punishment of death.
Mr. 11. BERKELEY presented a petition, praying
the House to reduce the duty on copper ore.
Mr. M. PHILIPS presented a petition from a tobac-
conist of Manchester, named Stork, complaining that the
Income-tax Commissioners had assessed his profits at
5001. a-year, while he was prepared to prove that he had
lost instead of gained by his business, and praying the
House to amend the law, so that he, and others similarly
situated to himself, might be relieved from its operation.
Lord R. GROSVENOR presented a petition in favour
of the claims of the Rajah of Sattara.
Sir J. C. HOBHOUSE presented a petition from
Nottingham, in favour of the reduction of the duties
on tea.
DECCAN BOOTY.

Mr. HUME asked whether the ten lacks of rupees
lately paid by the India House as a final settlement of
interest and unpaid balances of the Deccan booty, are to
be immediately distributed to all the claimants generally,
or whether those who claim for actual capture would be
paid in preference to those who claim for constructive
capture ?
Sir JOHN CAM lIOBIIOUSE replied, that it was
quite true that during the coursethe court oot last yf
directors
ear a final
adjustment took place between
and the trustees with respect to the sum to be paid, and
he underst.3od that Mr. Arbuthnot would lose no time in
theirsseeg that the distribution took place. With regard to
question as to who was to be paid first he could give
no infornsation.
JOINT STOCK COMPANIES.
Mr. THORNELY said he wished to ask a question
of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Vice.-President of the
Board of Trade with regard to a Bill promised last year
to enable joint stock companies to wind up their concerns.
He wished to know whether any progress had been
taade with the Bill, and whether it was likely soon to be
submitted to the House.
Mr. M. GIBSON replied that the Bill was in prepa-
ration, and some legal provisions bad been submitted to
the consideration of the Lord Chancellor. lie had every
hope that at no distant period the Bill would be
mitted to the House.
WASTE LANDS IRELAND.
Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN "iiVe notice that, to-morrow,
he would ask a question of''the Noble Lord at the head
of the Government, as to whether, in the event of
a company being formed for the reclamation of the
waste lands of Ireland, the Noble Lord would fa-
cilitate the acquisition of the powers by which it was
proposed to effect that object.
Dr. BOWRING put off his motion relative to public
accounts till this day fortnight.
Mr. CHRISTIE also postponed his motion for an in-
quiry into the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge
till the same day.
NOTICES OF AIOTION.
Mr. WADDINGTON gave notice of his intention to
bring in a Bill for the regulation of the law relating to
small tenements.
Lord COURTNEY gave notice of his intention to
move an amendment to the Poor Relief Bill in
Committee.
THE WELLINGTON STATUE.
Mr. CRAVEN BERKELEY gave notice that, on
Monday next, he would ask the Noble Lord at the head
of the Woods and Forests whether any communication
had been made to the Government by the committee of
the Wellington statue with respect to the removal of
the scaffolding round the statue; and, if it was to be
removed, at whose expense the removal was to take
place?
Lord CASTLEREAGH presented a petition from a
place in the county of Down against extending relief to
the able-bodied pOor in Ireland ; as, in the opinion of
the petitioners, it would tend to increase improvident
marriages, and lead to the confiscation of the property
of the country.
They also prayed that if such a measure
should be approved of by the House, that the extension
of suchrelict should be optional with the board
of
gnardians,

Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN presented a petition from the
fathers, mothers, brothers, and sisters uf those who had
fallen victims to the famine in Newport, county Mayo,
praying that immediate measures be tql;en trl stay the
o,,,rulity among the pct,plc..
-MILES presouted a petition from 6hc:pton Mallet,
against the Poor Removal Act of last session. Also a
petition from Bristol, in favour of the reduction of the
duty on tea.

TEN HOURS' BILL.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL presented several petitions
from mill-owners and others, in favour of this Bill.

HUSH MEASURES.

Mr. ROEBUCK wished to ask the Noble Lord a
question. There were now before the House four Bills
respecting Ireland. One they might consider to have
been disposed of—he meant the Bill for the immediate
relief of the destitute poor of Ireland, which had t,ono
through Committee, and which might, therefore, be con-
sidered to have received the consent of that House.
Then there was the Bill to indemnify the Government
fur their departure from the Irish Labour Act of last
year. Besides these Bills there were the Poor•law Bill
and the Bill for granting loans of money to the owners
of land in Ireland. What he wished to know was,
whether the Poor•law Bill would proceed pari passu
with the Landlords' Bill, or whether he proposed to
carry them separately?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, in reply to the ques-
tion of the Honourable Gentleman, he had to inform
him that it was the intention of the Government that
the two last Bills—the Poor-law Bill, and the Bill for
lending money to the proprietors of land, should proceed
together. He could not say the particular days on which
they would be taken, or whether one would be taken
before the other, but lie should wish to have them rend a
third time almost simultaneously by the House.—(Bear.)
He was anxious to hare them read on days so
closely followirg each other, that they might be sent up
to the other House of Parliament, as nearly as possible
at the same time.—(Hear.) Ile considered that the one
measure should be decided at the same time as the other
—(Hear, hear)—for if the one faiied in its object, it
could not prove otherwise than detrimental to the other.

IRISH POOL-LAW BOARD.
Mr. SHAW desired to know, before the permanent
Poor-law Bill came into operation, what was the or-
ganization which the Noble Lord proposed to tffect in the
new poor-law board, especially as it related to Ireland.
Lord .1. RUSSELL said that a short Bill arranging
the organization of that board was now under con-
sideration of the Government. Amidst the hurry of bu-
siness he had not been able to examine its provisions,
but they would bring it forward on a very early day.
RAILWAY PLAN FOR IRELAND.
Colonel WOOD desired to know whether the Noble
Lord, the Member for Lynn, would bring forward his
Bill for a system of railways for Ireland.
Lord G. BENTINCK said that it entirely depended
upon the business of the House.
Mr. S. O'BRIEN said it was the wish of the Irish
Members that the Noble Lord would defer it until
Tuesday next.
MONEY TO IRISH RAILWAYS.

Colonel OSBORNE desired to know what sum of
money had been granted for the earthworks of the
Limerick and Waterford Railway ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that he could not answer the question off hand.
PRESENTMENTS IN IRELAND.

Sir H. BARRON wished to know why the Board of
Works had delayed to send do.n drainage surveyors to
carry into operation the sums of money which had been
advanced under the Act commonly called Mr. Labcu-
chere's Act. He hoped that his Right Hon. Friend
would explain to the Rouse why the delay had taken
place.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said, that unless he had the re-
port of the Board of Works he could not give a distinct
answer. The Board of Works bad been obliged to
delay longer than they could have wished the examina-
tions necessary to the presentments before the money
could be advanced to carry them out, as, in many in-
stances, there had been a difficulty in finding competent
surveyors to undertake the works. The Board of Works
itself was most anxious to facilitate the works.
Mr. W. COLLETT wished to press the question
already asked by an Hon. Member. He wished to kn,w
whether any advance had been made to the Limerick
and Waterford Railway?
The CHANC'ELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
that in order to answer the lion. Gentleman it was ne-
cessary that he should read the Treasury Minute which
had sanctioned the advance.—(Hear.) The Minute
stated that the Commissioners of the Public Works
had, with regard to a portion of the line fur which
the authority of Parliament bad been obtained, advanced
sums of money for the execution of the earth. works ;
and with regard to that portion of the line for which the
authority of Parliament had not been obtained, and of
which it was intended to alter the course as soon as the
consent of all the landholders should have been obtained,
the money necessary for the earth-works would be
advanced.

land unless he had held the plough. But how
could they ever expect the labourers to rise unless
there were different sizes of farms. In the county of
Down the benefit of small lettings had proved to be
most beneficial. The tenant right for which Ile con-
tended was such, that the holder of land was not re•
quired to give up possession without receiving from the
proprietor the value of the improvements he had
made. He could also sell the improvements to
any tenant that might follow. What would
England and Scotland do in the harvest sea-on,
if it were not for the Irish labourer? He was no
advocate for small holchnes as they existed in seme parts
of Ireland. He was no admirer of cutter tenants
but he did maintain that a considerable degree of the
prosperity of the north of Ireland drpended on the
division of land into small but reasonably-sized farms.
--(Hear.) With reference to the system of mid-
dlemen, he held that it was one which destroyed all
confidence between the landlord and tenant, which
repressed all improvement, and was a fruitful cause of
the miseries of Ireland. No security was given by the
middleman to the tenant, and he could not claim one
from the landlord as the middleman stood between them.
Unless they passed a law for the Leprovernent of land-
lord and tenant, it would be of little use to pa,,s a law
for the relief of the destitute poor of that country; and
unless there was such a law passed, it would ::)e
utterly useless to do anything else, and there would
be an end to all improvement, and an entire loss
of all the labour and the expense which had
been incurred. lie did say that there was a greater
evil than that of the absentee landlords, for he
could say, from his personal knowledge, that
the properties of many of the absentee landlords
were in a far better condition than those of the resident
landlords. The people were better housed, better fed,
and in a better condition on those estates. It was said
by the Irish landlords, that if the rates were levied that
they would nevtr be paid, but, if the poor people were
unable to pay the rates, why did not the landlords pay
the rates themselves. If they did so, then would they ob-
tain the good-will of the people of this country, and would
be held worthy of the money which had been contributed,
and the assistance which had been rendered by this
country. He did not wish to say one word that would
be. offensive to the Irish landlords, but in the course of
bringing this sulYectbefore the House,he challenged tbem
to throw off the responsibility which their position imposed
He was thankful to the House for the indulgence which
it had shown to him. Ho trusted that the landed
proprietors would not shrink from their responsibility.
He hoped that the Noble Lord at the head
of the Government would give him a pledge that some
amendment of the law of landlord and tenant would be
effected.—(Hear, hear.) He hoped that he would tell
him that such a measure was one of those which in-
tended to introduce.

Sir D. NORREYS said that unless it could be made
the interest of the landlords to give security to their
tenants, it would be wholly useless to expect any move-
ment on their part to effect what was so much desired.
In order to induce the landlords to give leases
he would take away the stamp duties, and he
thought also that it was absolutely necessary that
all local taxation should be thrown upon
the landlords, where there were not leases for at
least twenty or thirty years. On this subject, he did
think it would be of some interest to the House to
give its attention to the opinion of a foreigner, who had
probably observed Ireland, and had written better on
Ireland than any other person, and who probably knew
the condition of Ireland better. He referred to Mr.
De Beaumont, v. 113 thought the uncertainty of tenure
in Ireland was' the main-spring of most of the evils that
afflicted it.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. TUITE then addressed the House, but was for
some time inaudible, from the confusion which prevailed.
He was firmly persuaded that no benefit would accrue to
Ireland till they had generally a resident, instead of an
absentee, proprietary. He altogether denied the as.er-
Lion which had been made by some lion. Members in
that Heusi?, that the property of absentees was as well
managed as the estates of the resident gentry. From
experience he knew this was not the ease.
Lord CASTLEREAGH wished to call the attention
of the House very shortly to the observations ot tho
Honourable Member for Rocridale. Ile gave credit
to the Honourable Member for the best inten-
tions, but he might be permitted to say
that the improvemeuts in the county to which
he had the honour to belong were increasing. while
the tenantry experienced a freedom from distress
which was gratifying to those interested in what
—in the welfare of the country. He would
beg to say, in one word, why he could
not support the resolution of the Hon. Member for
Rochdale. Hon. Gentlemen in that House were too
much accustomed to look on Ireland as they
would upon a county, and to entertain the
opinion that whatever measure would suit that county
would be equally suitable for the whole of Ireland.
Hon. Gentlemen were not perhapsaware that the systems
of agriculture were widely different in different
parts of the country. Were the measure of the
Honourable Member for Rochdale, therefore, car-
ried in that House, it would involve the greatest
mischief to the landed property in that county": Ile
trusted that without a legislative enactment the
improvements, which were going on in the
north would extend into the south, and that the relations
between the proprietors of the soil and the tenants would
be carried out in a spirit of liberalty.
Colonel CONNOLLY rose, and was
[LEFT spaairrxr o.

ELECTION RUMOUES.—We are requested by Sly
Howard Elphinstone's agent to state, in the most unqualified
terms, that there is not the slightest truth whatever in the
rumour that the Hon. Baronet has resigned his boat, or that
he has intimated his intention of resigning it.—Sussex Ad-
vertiser.

Baron Pasquier, sen., first surgeon of the King,
inspecting surgeon and member of the Board of Health of
the Army, and Commander of the Legion of Honour, died on
Saturday, after a long illness. in his 74th year. The funeral
ceremony took place on Monday, at twelve o'clock, at the
church of St. Louis d'Antin.—Paris paper.