The Sun.
London, England, 1824-05-05 00:00:00

DI§T it ESS IN i RELAN D.

dente taken before a Committee of the House last year on a
reference as to the state of Ireland.]—lle should, however, not
stop here, for he should prove that where disturbance exist-
ed employment removed ite-e[The Hon. Member here again
referred to the evidence taken before the Counnittee.i—Thi.
clearly shbwed that the want of f einployment was the
principal, if not the sole cause of the disturhances. At was,
therefore, the duty of Government, to come forward and eit-
deavour to encourage the tritneferbf capital to that country,
in order to give emplOyment. He knew that this would be
• met by a reference to the doctrine of Adam Smith—that most
men understood their own interest. This. was true as a general
• rule, though it was open to many exceptions, as had been
clearly shewn by Monsieur Say and Monsieur Sismondi. It
had also been shewn by the Report of a Committee of that
House appointed to consider the state of Ireland, to whidi
Report the late Mr. Ricardo was a party, and although that
lamented Gentleman was almost invincible in his support of the
general rule, he had on that occasion admitted that the state of
Ireland appeared to prove an exception to it. If he (Capt. ki-)
were asked what particular employment ought to be encouraged
by the Legislature, he would say the Fisheries and the Cul-
tivation of Flax. It was a fact, that few of the people engag-
ed in the Fishery on the Irish Coast were aware of the best
means of directing their exertions with effect, a circumstance
attribUtable entirely to the want of funds. The Linen Manu-
factory was carried on principally by flax," home-produced;
and yet the cultivation of the flax was neglected. This was
to be referred solely to the poverty of the country, which
chilled her industry and diminished her skill. Ile should
propose, as a remedy, that a sum not exceeding a million
should be entrusted to Commissioners to be lent to individuals
on. their giving security for The repayment. 'He preferred this
course to the engaging in any public works, because it would
encourage enterprise and speculation. He .should propose a.
check to the money being applied metclnn discharge of in-
cumbrances on land. The mode of preventing this he should
propose to leave in the discretion of the Commissioners. He
'would obserie, however, that one mode of accomplishing the
general object would be-by extending the present system of
charitable loans, Which had been attended with roust benefit.—
(The Hon. Gentleman here ,referred to several instances of the
encouragement of the. fishing trade by the benevolent assistance
of individuals, who advanced Money on loan to those who were '
interested, in the trade, and who had been honourably and
punctually repaid.]—He had now gone through the particulars
of the subject he had brought under the notice of the House.
lie was satisfied that, if the Government were to set the ex-
ample, capital would be. transferred to Ireland by individuals
to a considerable amount. He referred to the example of
Scotland to she* the effect of capital on tlie situation of the
peasantry, though he admitted that education and skill might
form some part of the cause. lib concluded by moving_
" That the House do resolve itself into a Committee of the
whole House to contider:the propriety of presenting an humble
Address to his Majesty, praying that he .will be graciously
Pleased to give directions for advancing a sum not exceeding
one million to be employed in the provinces of Ulster and
Connaught, and to appoint Commissioners for the distribution
thereof."
The CHANCELLOR-of the EXCHEQUER said it must be
admitted that the lion. Member had brought-tlie subject forward
in the most laudable temper and language. Ile joined the lion.
Member in his regret that a country like Ireland, with so- many
advantages as to climate, soil, and • people, should,. from un-
happy circumstances, be prevented attaining that eminent situa-
tion which those advantages appeared to promise. He con-
sidered the interests of this country to be so united with those
of Ireland, that in his opinion every proposal for assisting her
should receive a faveurableattention. That attention, he could
assure. the Hon. Member, he had given to his proposal, and the
facts and arguments by which he had supported it • but he re-
gretted.he had conic to the ()Pinion that the proposal (so far as
he could. Understand it) was not advisable. Ile was fully aware
that Parliament had interfered on former occasions for the as-
sistance of Ireland by grants_ of considerable sums ; and it was
not to be denied that this eleemosynary kind of assistance was
sometimes advisable, but it became so only when the neces-
sity for it was immediate and overruling. The proposal or the
Honourable Member, however, did not appear to be of this
description; `for be understood it to be intended -only in the
way ofloan. Of the policy of this kind of assistance from
the public purse he had always his doubts, though lie ad-
mitted he had sometimes been a party to it; but his doubts
were particularly great when the, case was applied to Ire-
This, his opinion,- arose not from -any indifference in
his mind towards the situation of Ireland, bnt from a desire
to'ptevent a delusion, by the creation of a teinporary apparent
yrOsperity.- If they were to be too lavish in these grants from
the public purse, they would cause the Gentry of Ireland to
be perpetually leaning en . the Government to keep their heads
above water. This was a most 'erroneous course of policy ;
and the adoption of it as a general course would be most mis-
chievous. Grant after grant would go on ; but at last the sys-
tem Of granting. must stop ; and the people would be thew
found less capable of elertion for themselves than ever. Thus
much for the plan itself of the Hon. Member. . Rut even if the

plan were free from objection, he thought its practicability was
very questionable. He did not exactly understand ix what
!mode the lion. Gentleman proposed to give the assistance to
'the Fisheries. To set them-up, to set them going in particu-
lar districts, he did not-see any objection ; hitt this must be
done on a very small scale indeed. The Lord Lieutenant, by
the present law, had the power to issue from the. Treasury a
certain lulu (he believed about 6;000/. a year). for the erection
of piers; and for accomplishing other means of 'protection to the
'Fishery- Stations. 'With regard to that part of the plan which
went to encourage the growth of flax ; it appeared that the lion.
Gentleman himself was aware that it was a subject of ME-
culty. 'There appeared, however; to be no want of demand
Tofthe flax. Corn, -winch was as expensivein the cultivation
:as flax,. was produced in . abundance ; and he therefore could
- not see why the noncultiVation of flax was to be attributed to
d.tiant 'of capital: lt was never desirable that-,-Parliament'
should lend money to people connected with the landed inte- i
rest; 'hut the, proposed loan would be more-than usually ob-
jectionable, as from the proposed check, it would Often bring
the Government. into unpleasant, 'not -to say hostile collision
'with the • landed pmprietorS. He thought there were many
other serious objections to the plan iri principle, and to its
.execution as proposed, even if the first branch of objec-
tions were gotten rid of. lie did not wish, however, to
press his objections with': earnestness, 'still less with warmth,
in a case wherein' the object was so 'laudable.' Parliament had
shewn every disposition to afford assistance to Ireland of a
legitimate nature. He Meant the remission of taxes and the re-
moving restrictions upon cominerce.(Hear, hear, hear !)---
These were clear and unobjectionable modes of assistance ; but
that proposed by the lion. Member could not be feared, lie ton-
sidered, as any thin;; butteMporary and delusive: lie did not
wish to meesa motion so introduced to the House as this had
been, by a direct negative ; and lie should therefore content him-
Self with moving the previous question.
Lord' ALTHORP did not think the general objection to
grants of this description applied to that ctintemplated by the
present motion. At present capital was actually forced out
of Ireland. It was sent to.- Mexico, and to all parts of the
world, ••except to that country. He thought every exertion
ought to be made to invite capital to Ireland. To do so, he
would almost say that he would consent to takeoff all taxes on
direct consumption. If this were *done, many of the difficul-
ties. to a -residence there 'would be removed; and Many persons
who preferred foreign countries for a residence from motives
of economy, might shell lie induced to give thepreference to
Although he did not entirely concur in :all that had
been stated by .the Hon. Mover, he approved of thespian, and
slid not think it would be impracticable to carry it into execu-
tion., .He should therefore' support .the motion.
Mr. JOHN SMITH thought the argumentorthe Chancellor
Of The Exchequer most extraordinary. This was the first time
6:J20-ever heard panting
,public loans for national purposes
S4grpatiied as prejudicial to a country. fie was himself a
CotinniAsioner, under an- .Act of Parliathent, for lending
Money to the public for • making roads, :building bridges, 'or
some such purpose, and he spOlce from 'experience when he
said:that such a practice was productive of the best effects.—
Why then was Ireland, So much depressed as she was, to be
denied the benefit of, such a system ? . The Right-Hon. Gen-
tleman, he knew, had the. interest of Ireland at heart. He must
say, however, that the London Committee for the relief of the
Irish had not met with that support from the Irish Members
which they had' a right to expect. Nevertheless, much good
had been done. There could not be a more apt instance of
the effect of making small loans to the people than that which
the fisheries affbrded. With the paltry sum of. 100/. a Re-
verend Gentleman in Ireland had fitted out upwards of forty
fishing boats which had led to the successful employment of
SU individual's, whilst there was yet 201. remaining an hand.
He was convinced that if we did not change our system of go-
vernment with regard to Ireland, there were events in the pro—
spect of Europe which would pull down this mighty empire
from her height,-and bring destruction upon all those mea-
sures of amelioration which were now only in their infancy.—
(Hear, hear!) •'
31r. GOULBURNeontencled that his Right Hon. Friend (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer) had explained to the House, with
his usual clearnesi, the views •which he entertained upon this
question. lie (Mr. Goulburn) for one entirely coincided in
those views. Nothing could have been more gratifying to him
upon liis return to Ireland than to be able to say that lie had
assisted in procuring a:million of money from the Parliament.
for the use of that country. Btu he was satisfied that such a
course would not contribute to the advantagehat large loans of Ireland.—
•
The. Noble LorskilLord Athorp), represented t
had been Made to England; whilst Ireland was excluded.,=
was, that in the grant to which he alluded, a simi
-
1111. t the
Pactsr as made 'for -Ireland, at the same time; for similar'
purposes. This; however, was never meant as a permanent

Captain MA Bl.•;ItLY rose to bring forward his promtsed
motion respecting. the Pistress,.l•vhich prevailed in Ireland.
After a few preliminary ob,serVatiOns, beggrng the • indulgence
of the House, and diselaimingalt political motive to his intro-
ducing the subject to their notice, the Hon. Methber proceeded
to expre.ss his s,tirprise, as. -we•II,AS his regret, that two coun-
tries so near • to each other as Ehgland and Ireland were, re-
gulated generally by the saille laws, *and under the same Go-
vernment, should present such a difFerence in their 'relative-
eosperity and happiness.' Tbatirelatid Was in a state of suf-.
tering was not disputed ; and • Pie first question was to what
should the evils be attributed ? ' He was clearly 'of opinion that
. it was to be attributed to an eticessrve and a redundant popula-,
tion, by which lie meant a population excessive and redundant;
considered with. reference to the' Means of support which the
coantry...prodtsed. • Some' attributed the evil to the use among
the. poor of potatoe- food ; but lie did not believe that it was
attributable to the lititatoe, or any other partieulat kind of food:
ft WAS to be attributed tq the- dharacter and manners of the
people,.
.Fainirre had•heen sery frequent in Ireland. The last
fztmine was in thd. year 18...:, to a most distressing extent. He
repeated that hewaa of opinion•tliat excessive population had
principally caused the misery; though otigt causes might have
contributed to it. It was alsoa tatter of notoriety, that in Ire-
land, grievances, Which at first appeared to be of a load nature,
caused. general commotion. Sometimes high rent. was the
grievance; at other 'times something else; but whatever the ,
should
fr- rievance the discontent always became extended. This being
it his opinion the evil; the' question would be, how
,it be remedied ? • If, • as-lie believed, ,the people were stunu_
lated, the stiinulanta ought to be removed. One of the most
inischievaus Of them was the multiplication of small freeholds,
which caused a vain and idle desire, in small proprietors, to-see
z.rtround them a nutubs:,,.-. of petty retainers.- This mischief was
algapromoied by-the Catholic tlergy,.wholie interest it was to,
promote rnarr.ge =tong thee who composed their flocks—,
an Wenn venience (one among many.
.others) attending the ex-,
tCIiCA of a majority 'of Ministers of reli:4-ion ensupported
by the public atittorities. lie believed- that Governinent
could not remove the evil by any direet remedy, and his own
prcp.isal would therefore•beforian indirect'ore. :The first step
towards the .rernedy Would-be by inerensing the capital of the
cfluntry, and this would he.best obtained by .a.sscurity.af pre-'
petty..,That security would. be insiirett by providing employ- .
went, and tile consequent:means of comfort among the poorer
a:Ages. --,:Disturbance and the want of employment were gene-,
if
_not; 41ways conneacd.—[ The lion. Gentleman .here,.
jii order to support the above proposition, 'referred to -thivi.;

system of policy, and here he and the Noble Lord were at iin a state* of shivering nakedness, in vain implored employ_
variance. It was intended to rouse the-vigour and enterprise of ment. His Honourable Relative bad particularly said he
the people through the medium of capital, and it was hoped that did not wish to grant loans on land. It was. not, therefore, fair
English capitalists would have followed the example. - It was ads to treat his argument as such. lie wished to carry on the dis-
visable howeyer to look at the efface of this course. The Commis_ cession with the temper which- had hitherto marked it, but he
sioners, afterheing some time engaged in distributing the glint must say, that he thought when thei.were voting money for
in- small loam, they represented that the= practice was rather Churches and Palaces, they ought to provide for the necessities
worsting evil. than; good in Ireland, They sheeted that it ens- ,of their fellow countrymen, in such a state as were the Irish.
bled persons carryieg on trade upon fictitione :capital to keep Colonel.TßENCH,.said it would create a feeling of shame
up injurious competition with -the genuine and industrious mingled with satisfaction in the Irish Gentlemen, when he
trailer. Under these circunistaneea it- was thought better not stated that the individual alluded to was not an Irishman, but
to goon, and he-certainly expected that that House would join an -English Agent -to the ruined. estate Of an Irish Nobleman.
witty the Irish Government in thinking so likewise. There (Hear, hear !)-He wished that every Irish Gentleman would
was another objection to this practice, which he would men- imitate his example, mid every Irish Lady that of his wife--
don. The Crown had extraordinary powers of recovering these There was an endurance under suffering in the Irish, so much
loans, the consequence of whiCh was to create alaem in an acuteness, and so many excellent moral qualities, that they • other creditors of those who availed themselves of them, thus were entitled to better things.
,He nine say, that they owed •
placing the needy trader in a worse situation after than he was many of their evils to a want of sympathy in the Gentry.—
before, Upon the whole, he was fully satisfied that the conti- Another evil. was, that the Bank of Ireland., had not followed
nuation of the practice would greatly affect the natural industry the example of the Bank of England in lowering the rate
of the people. There was, beside., another reason why it was of interest on money. A man of not only large capital, but
advisable -to abstain from pressing upon Parliament for loans good nerves, was now the kind ef. person wanted in Ireland.
to Ireland. This reason lay in the fact, that of all places Ire. To give an idea of how little was done-by Ireland for-herself,
land was one likely to require such loans in times of public he would only mention that, in the County of Roscommon,
distress. These were the more frequent from the nature of the a Ladies' Committee had been formed, at the head of which
food of the people of Ireland, so liable to extensive and dims. was Mr. Strickland for the purpose of finding employment for
trous changes. It was -therefore 'desirable tbar 'Parliament the poor. The Absentees were applied to by them for a
Should not be pressed for grants of this description upon light contribution' in . aid- of their undertaking; but although
grounds. Absentee property alone amounted to-80,0001. a-year, only
Mr. Jon seerrer and Mr. Gonieoirriee mutually explained. 801. were collected. - He hoped this statement in that House
Mr. S. RICE expressed his surprise at the Proclamation' would make an impression in the proper quarters.
which had just been made by the Irish Government in antici- Mr. ABERCROMBY obierved, that it was a most extraor-
pation of the starvation of the people of Ireland. lie never Binary circumstance that out ofi all the redundant capital. of
heard a more curious argument against granting the means of this country no part of it should go to Ireland, where there
relief. The means of improving the country and its resources, were seven millions of fellow-subjects suffering from the want
and placing the people out of the reach of sudden calamity,' of capital. Something very strange there certainly must, be in
were demanded of Parliament; and the answer of the Right such a state of things. But whatever that might he, here was
Honourable Secretary opposite (Mr. Goulburn) was,—wait a motion to induce Government to do that which individuals
till the people are in a state of actual starvation, 'and then would not do, but which it was most desirable shOuld be done.
give them eleemosynary aid.—(Hear, hear, hear !)—lt was A, long series of mis-government, he feared, was the cause of
the object of himself_ and friends to prevent the people the anomaly -whith lie had noticed; and if some decisive step
from falling into this state. The only ground for a refusal were not taken, the most -fearful results must be andel-
which the House could adopt was that of distress in Enge" gated. However, notwithstanding the opinions he entertained
land e but this was notoriously untrue. They appeared to be of the state of Ireland, he could not assent to the motion 'of his
agreed upon the principle, -but differed in the details. The Hon. Friend. His objection was not to the, principle of his
greatest benefithad been derived even from the introduction proposition, but its - application. His objection was to the
and loan of flax-seed in -Ireland. A friend of his, Mr. strick.: amount of the money, which was such that no security could be
land, had laid out 1,0001. in the purchase and importation of offered for-it except the land; and from that he Saw the greatest
flax-seed, which he lent to the grower to be repaid at the harvest mischief. In' that respect he entirely accorded with the Right..
time. He sold for five shillings what before could not be got lion. Gentleinan (Mr. Secretary Canning); and was only sue-
under fifteen. The profit to the individuals arising from this prised that
.a person, of his acuteness should ever have enter-
-1,0001. was no less than 21,0001., and he had the satisfaction to tamed such a scheme tbr a moment. He should, however, be
say that Mr. Strickland had received the whole of the 1,0001. glad to see small sums distributed in the -way in which Mr.
with the exception of 40/. which he could have upon demand. Strickland had so beneficially employed capital.
The Hon. Member also referred to a similar instance of advan- Mr.3IONCK declared his opinion to be against the motion.
tage arising from a small capital advanced for the opening of a A great deal was said about. giving employment to Ireland,
new turnpike road. In either of the cases, if the answer had but he knew no place to which so Much employnient had been
been made, which was now made by the Right Hon. Gentleman given for the last thirty years. - During that time upwards of
opposite, these happy results would have been lost. a million of acres had been brought into cultivation. The evil
Mr. OULBURN complained of the manner in which he of Ireland was in the habits of her population. They did no
had been misrepresented. He never had used any such argu- more to the earth than what was sufficient to produce barely
ment as that the people of Ireland ought not to be relieved until enough to subsist upon. They built-their own huts, and gave
in a state of starvation. Neither did he entertain the opinions no employment to any trade; and their garments were of the
represented of him on the .subject of granting loans for national same sparing nature. The superfices of Ireland and Scotland,
purposes. Ile did not approve of the application in-the present he believed, was much about the same, yet how different were
•instance of such an application in the mode proposed. But he the amounts of their public burdens? He should propose an
was himself a party to the yearly. advance of such loans, for. Absentee Tax in the shape of Is. in the pound on the whole
the making of roads, or any national monuments of that de_ land of Ireland. If some alterations like that he had suggest-
scription. ed was-made, much good might be done. -If they did not pro-
Mr. S. RICE said he was very sorry if he had misrepresented duce any real,advantage, they would at least Open the way for
any thing which had fallen from the Right Hon. Gentleman. improvement.
Nothing was farther from his intention, and no one was more Mr. II UTCHINSON repeated what he had 'frequently said
disposed than lie was to give credit to the Right Hon. Gentle- in that House, namely, that unless the tranquillity of Ireland
man for his services in Ireland. . was established, the safety of the British Empire was not se- •
Mr. Secretary CANNING said he had been accidentally cured. He returned thanks to the Right Hon, Secretary of
absent from the House during the latter part of the speech of State for Ireland for the good intention which had been ex-
his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Goulburn), and also during the. pressed. towards Ireland ; but how could he be satisfied, as an
commencement of that of the lion. Gentleman who had just Irish Member, whilst the population of the country remained
sat down. He could not therefore say how far his Right Hon. unemployed; and in a state of famine. If Lancashire or York-
Friend had been misrepresented; - But knowing his sentiments - shire were placed for a few weeks in the
,same situation as the
as he did, he certainly had not heard without surprise time ar- South and' West Of Ireland, the whole force of England would
gunients attributed to him by the Hon. Gentleman, and it gave not keep the public peace. He was ready.to tell the Govern-
him great. pleasure to .find the matter cleared up as it had, ment they had been advancing towards the' interests of Ireland
been. The Hon. Gentleman opposite seemed to him to be argu- with a snail's pace ; and he cautioned them,
.not to' let Perlia-
ing the question, whether any occasion short of the exigency of ment break up and depart without doing something more sub-
waalt ought or ought not to obtain a grant of public money for stantialfor Ireland. lie thanked the. Ministers for their polite
relief. Phis, however, was not the question before the Hotise. attention to the affairs of Ireland, but nothing could be done
The question at issue Was, whether the present was that occasion without furnishing the starving population with employment.
in which relief ought to he afforded in this particular man-
,Aldermati BRIDGES rose amidst a loud cry of question.—
ner. And he had perfectly understood the olfinion of his, It was most distressing, he said, to hear of the distressed state
Right Honourable Friend to he that which he himself enter_ of Ireland, without being able to afford relict. He did not see
tanned, viz.—that although there might be many situations why, at a time when loans were advanced with so much faci-
incidental to Ireland which constituted such a necessity, the lity, that money could pot be applied to the advantage of Ire
present situation was not of that nature which did call for laid. land. He thought if security could be given on the land that
Whatever proposition was brought into that House for the something beneficial might be done.
relief of Ireland was sure to Meet vaah favour; and no pro- Sir JOHN NEWPORT thought it necessary to trouble the
position, he was sure, had ever been introduced with more House with a few words.' fie agreed in Many of the' observe-
temper or ability, both in execution and conception, than that tions made by an Hon. Friend, as to the necessity of taking
which the House then entertained. The same temper, niO. measures for giving Ireland tranquillity. 'Before any appli-
, deration, and good settee evinced by the Hon. Mover would, cation of capital could be useful the people must be restored
he was convinced, spew him that many persons might differ to peace and habits of industry. He asked how it happened
from him in this specific proposition, without any difference Session after Session that Government took no steps to remedy
as to the principle upon which •it proceeded. In the mode the abuse's in the office of Sheriffs in Ireland. That of all evils
of application, lie thought there was an inconvenience to the called loud for redress. The lion. Member for Reading had
proposed plan., The Honourable Mover rested his plan for described the peasantry of Ireland as placed in rags and
instance, on the success 'of a airliner application which trans- wretchedness by their own misconduct, and it was said why
formed a barren district to a •flourishing
.populous country.— don't the gentry of Ireland come forward. The fact was, ex-
From such 'a proposition no roan could withhold-his assent—it cessive taxation had beggared the gentry of Ireland and ruined
could not be doubted that it
was a great blessing. But the the peasantry. The,Hon. Gentleman said, was it fair that Eng-
Hon. Gentleman did not mean to say, that such would be the landeind Scotland should pay for the support of Ireland ? Did
effect ofa similar experiment upon all barren districts ?—Many the Hon. Gentleman know the amount of the-money brought
upon which it was ascertained any into England by absentees. The measures of this country had
msuocnhetyheiraeidweoruet,ins;E•onfilldantl,
be
entirely thrown away. Another ruined Ireland, and it was the duty of Government to provide a
instance, in support of the motion, had been adduced. He meant remedy for their distresses. Unless something was done, a coa-
the advance of 1,000/. by Mr. Strickland for the purchase of lition would shake the fabric, it must be the wish of all in that
flax.seed, which had so fructified as to yield a profit of 20,0001. Irouse to support.
—a better proof could not be -adduced of a good understanding :liar. Secretary PEEIs. did not rise to enter into discussion
betwixt landlord and tenant. But he did not see how it advanced on the question, because, he felt, and. the Right Honourable
time argument which it affe.cted, thus :—A landlord by advanc- Baronet triusafed; that was not the best moment fordiscuision.
ing money to his tenant, dote; service to that tenant ; ergo the Thmesubject had been so entirely examined by his Right ilo-
Guyer= ent ought to lend money to the Gentry of Ireland. This, nourable Friend, I hat he had only to concur in his observations.
I
although it did not affect thedirectquestionbeforetheHouse,open- 'rite Right Hon. Baronet had said one of the great causes why
e:1 a branch of the question which had not hitherto been touched the introduction of' capital to Ireland would- not be useful,
upon. For although Government advanced public works in was the uncertainty of correct conduct on the part of the She-
Ireland, yet it did not do so altogether in the capacity of a riffs and Sub-Sheriffs of Ireland. The Honourable Baronet,
lender; and, above all, "at to the landed interest. The in- upon reflection, must be satisfied that every thing had been
stance of the flax, if it applied, went to this, that the landlord done- to remedy the law with respect to the election of Sheriff's.
should he enabled by Government to lend his capital. If it, He was ready to admit that the administration of the duty of
did not mean that, it meant nothing ; for to say that Govern- Sub-Sheriff was defective, but the Commission recommended
ment ought to advance money to the Gentry of Ireland, be. by the Hon. Baronet we'e going on with their inquiry into the
cause there were persons in that country who could do that Subject...
the inquiry in that House until the report of the He might ask then, whether it would not be better to
already, would be a very illogical method of supporting the postpone
Com-
motion before the House. He was decidedly of opinion that mittee was made. That consideration was the only one which
the scheme of the Honourable Member was in the highest could lead to delay on the port of Government, and he held
degree mischievous. lie spoke with the warmth of a convert, that to be a satisfactory cause.
for he had had the misfortune at one time to think that a similar Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, the "execution of the offlee of
plan would do for. England. He had entertained great faith Sub-Sheriffhad nothing to do with the cause of complaint. He
in a scheme for advancing money to- the landed gentlemen at complained of the insufficiency of the law with respect to the
a low rate of interest to enable them to redeem annuities and execution of the office of Sheriff:
mortgages. He had set out upon an inquiry into the feasibili- ..-.Captain 111 A I3ERL Y. replied. Permanent employment in -
ty of such a scheme with the most sanguine expectations that he Ireland would, he was convinced, more than compensate for
should arrive at a prosperous conclusion. But, after the most present distresses. New trade and manufactures might pro-
elaborate investigation, lie was obliged to yield a painful and mote the interest of Ireland. ' Fisheries on the coest might be
reluctant assent to-the conviction that such a plan was imprac- made the source of great national advantage. :In 1817 an in..
ticable ; and if practicable, would be most mischievous. In such dividual erected a fishery on the coast of Scotland, which beat
a case the Crown -became the creditor, than which it was impos- the -Datcle out of the Hamburgh market.
sible to conveive any thing more inconvenient for the landed •The -House then divided— -
interest. It was to be observed that. it would not be the -Mr. : .For the Motion - -- . • - -.-. -.33 •
Stricklands' that would become the debtors in such a case, but Against it - - . - e * 85.
the needy only. It was remarked, he believed in
-tire Spectator . • .= - ' Majority against it - . --• --52
Or some other periodical 'voile, that there was no character un- .. BAPTISMS AND BURIALS.
derwent a greater change throithat of a lender. We went to him -- Mr. KEMP, pursuant to notice, brought forward his motion
e cap in hand, and regarded him as the most amiable being so long respecting a Metropolitan Register of Births, Baptisms, and
as he retained that'distinction. But a couple of years converted Burials. The Hon. Member concluded by moving for leave to
him into a creditor, and then we found nothing more unpleasant bring in a Bill to authorize time establisment of a Metropolitan
than to look him in the face. This change then would take place - Register of Baptisms, Marriages, and Burials, in England.
with regard to the Crown when assuming the sane character—a • Mr. Secretary PEEL said, he could not pledge himself to
day of payment must come, and then, as conciliation was to be support the Bill, not knowing exactly what it was.
one object of suchameasure, he called upon them to look how The motion was then agreed to, and leave given to bring in
far from such an attitude the Crown would assume when, it a Pill..
Came to force payment. What would become of'- prior credi-
tors, for it was certain the Crown would enforce payments in a
way of its own, which would be to the detriment of all others ?
It would in short be their eventual ruin. These were the argu-
ments which had dissuaded him from a similar scheme during
a period of landed distress, and he was sure the application of
such a remedy now to Ireland would create greater evils than
it was proposed to relieve. The more unobjectionable part of
the scheme, that which referred to public works, was still car-
ried on, and the fund for that purpose was not exhausted. He
gave the fullest credit to the Hon.. Mover for the benevolence
in -which his scheme originated, a credit to which he considered
himself partially entitled; at the same time that he was obliged
most reluctantly tee give his dissent to the motion.
Mr. MA BERLE Y, sent supported the motion. The ques-
tion was not of that abstract nature which many Gentlemen
seemed to think. The Hon. Mover had told them that there
was a district in Ireland already in a state of starvation, and that
if they did not -apply some means of reliefrebellion would break
out as it had often done in similar cases. He also suggested a
remedy, which there could be no doubt would be successful.
Indeed they knew that the same scheme had been productive of
the happiest effect in the North of Ireland; and he now asked
them to appleathe same remedy to the South, and with the same
certain success. The dreadful state' of the population of the
South-of Ireland ought to move them to take this remedy, or
any. remedy. He assured them that there' were many cases in
which the poor people did- not earn two -pence a week, . and

PAROCHIAL FUNDS.
Sir J. NEWPORT said, a large sum of money, name!y,
50,0001. had been expended in building a church in the parish
of St. George, Dublin. The people of that parish had paid
towards the building without having been able to obtain any
account of the expenditure, and the Right lion. Bart. therefore
moved " There be laid before the. House an account of all sums
of money borrowed and raised for building a Church in the
parish of St. George, Dublin, since 1808."—The Returns were
ordered.

Sir J. NEWPORT also gave notice, that on Thursday he
should move for certain statistical Accounts relating to Ireland.
On the motion of Mr. BANKES, the British Museum Bill
was read a third time, and passed.
Mr. KENNEDY moved to bring up the Report of the
Scotch Jury Bill.
The LORD ADVOCATE objected to several provisons of
the Bill, but reserved his main opposition for the third reading.
air. KENNEDY supported the provisions of his Bill.
Mr. ABERCROKIsY and Mr. COURTENAY -supported the
Bill.

Mr. Secretary PEEL suggested the postponement of the
Bill to next Session, for the purpose of malting it less objec-
tionable.

Mr. SCARLETT was disposed to adopt the suggestion of
the Right lion. Secretary, and his hope was, that the Lord
Advocate would not get rid of the Bill by a side wind.
Mr. KENNEDY was willing to re=commit the Bill, upon

an understanding that the re-committal should take place" ort
an early day. , . •
On the motion of Sir G. CLERK, the Bill was then ordered
to be re-committed this day.
The other Orders of the Pay were then disposed of, and 114
House adjourned at Half-liaStTwo o'Cleck...

LIST OF THE MINORITY,
Who voted on Captain 11Iabeily's Motion for a. Committee of
the whole House to consider the propriety- of addressing the
Crown to advance capital; not exceeding one million, to Ire-
land, to be employed in the Provinces of: Mitnster,and Con-
naught, and appointing.Commissioners,f)r carrying this ob-
ject into effect.
Althorp, Visct. Lamb, Hon: G. • Sykes, D.
Brownlow, C. _ Leader, W. Stuart, W. (Arm.)
Clifton, Viscount Moberly, J. Stanley, Hon. E. C•
Clements, 'Hon. J... Marjoribanks,..S. -Tierney, Rt.fin.O.
Denman, Thos. Newport, Sir J. Talbot, R.W.
Ellis, .1: m. G. A. Nugent, Loid 'White, S.
Ebrington, Visct. , Pelham, J. C.. White, H.
Foley, J. Power, R. Wood,
Handley, Henry Rice, 'T. S. - IVestenra, Hn. H.
Hutchinson, Hon.. Smith, J. Whitbread, S. C.
C. 11. Smith, Hon. R. TELLtIt•
Honeywood, W. P. Stanley,: Lord 'Moberly, W. 1..•