The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-13 00:00:00

the Right ion. Baronet would be laid on the table on
Monday.

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POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL.
Mr. GREGORY wished to put a question to the
Noble Lord with respect to a clause which he
(M ir. Gregory) had placed upon the paper with the n-
tentioa of moving its insertion in the Bel when the
House should go into Committee upon it. The Noble
Lord had stated that it was his intention to propose. that
no holder of land above half an acre should be entitled
to come under the definition of destitute persons. Now,
introduce
such wished to know whether he intended to
such a provision. If he replied in the affirmative, his
(Mr. Gregory's) motion would fall to the ground, but if
in the negative, it would be his duty to propose it. He also
wished to know when her Majesty's Government could
state their intentions with respect to vagrants in Ireland?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL (who spoke in an unusually
low tone) was understood to say that he had already
stated that he approved of the clause which the Hon.
Gentleman intended to propose, but he should prefer
him to make what amendments he might think proper,
and afterwards to bring it under the ccnsideration of
the house at the proper time. He could not state the
exact time when the Government would bring in the
Bill with respect to vagrants, but he might state that he
certainly should not bring such a measure forward until
the measures so urgently requiry Ireland had re-
ceived the sanction of the House.
MINT PROSECUTIONS.
Mr. HUME slid, seeing the Hon. Gentleman the
Master of the Mint in his place (Mr. Sheil), he wished
to know whether the statement that had gone
abroad was correct, that policemen ensployed in
Mint cases were paid double the usual pay during
the time they were engaged? Such a statement was
made at a trial which recently took place at the Old
Bailey, and it seemed most extraordinary conduct. He
thought the public should have authentic' information on
the subject. He therefore wished to know whether such a
practice existed, and if it did, whether the Hon. Gentle-
man had taken any steps to put a stop to it ?
Mr. SHELL said, on Friday last he inquired at the
Mint whether such a practice prevailed, and was informed
that the practice had existed for a considerable time,
and had been carried to a much greater extent than at
present. He thought it was a practice likely to lead to
great abuses, and he could assure the Hon. Gentleman
that he should do his best to put a stop to it.—(Hear.)
The subject then dropped.
POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL.
On the order of the day for going into Committee upon
the Poor Relief (Ireland) Bill being read,
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that before the Speaker
left the chair he wished to state generally what had been
the latest proceeding of the Government with respect to
the calamitous state of affairs now existing in Ireland,
and at thOisame time to call the attention of the House
to one or two of the principal provisions of the Bill
before the House. In the midst of the present afflictions
of Ireland he thought it was due to the House—with
darkness surrounding them and peril before them—to
acquaint it with the steps which they were taking
from time to time, and those measures which
might have at a future period a serious influence on the
destinies both of this country and of Ireland. The House
was acquainted both with the seeps which had been taken
before the commencement of the session, and the conti-
nued refusal which the Government had given to enter-
tain some other measures of large import to which their
attention had been repeatedly called. Titus, the Govern-
ment agreed, with respect to the supply of provisions,
that there should be the amount of 10,000 tons always in
store in various depots in those parts of Ireland where
there were no regular markets established, but it declined
to undertake the feeding of the people of Ireland by the
importation of provisions. They likewise consented that
a sum of not more than 50,0001. should be laid out forseed,
thinking that seed might be more readily purchased by
the Government than by individuals. But they had
steadly refused to undertake the cultivation—the
ploughing arei sowing of the land in Ireland.—(Hear.)
Thus, also, they had augmented to a very small degree
the sum which was applicable for the removal of
emigrants in a destitute condition, from Quebec to
Montreal and other places, where their labour might
be more in demand. But they had refused to be-
come
responsible for the conduct and promotion of
emigration in general from this country.—(Hear,)
The reasons why the Government had thus acted were
as follows :—ln the first place, they thought the
quantity of corn and previsions of all kinds would
be greater if the trade was not interfered with,
than if they by any act of theirs interfered with the
purchase of supplies, and, in the second place day by (lay,
they had been confirmed that in so doing they had acted
right. They wese also of opinion that the cultivation
of theland would have been impeded instead of forwarded
had they undertaken, as they had been desired to do,
the employment of the people upon the land. They
were likewise of opinion that the number of emigrants
to the United States and the colonies would not have
been considerably increased if the Govern-
ment had proposed any large grant of
money for that purpose, instead of leaving
emigrants to depend on their own resources, or on what
was furnished them by their friends or their landlords.
On these topics he would do no more than state what
the opinions of the Government had been. With regard
to another question, it has been thought that the Go-
vernment had unduly interfered with the employment
of the people, devoting large sums of money for the em-
ployment of the destitute people of Ireland. This was
undoubtedly true. For this purpose the advances had
been very great ; and he would now state what the
amount had been, up to the end of February, expended
on relief :

September (1846)
November
December
January (1847)
February
This expenditure was entirely independent of that
which had been expended by the commissariat and other
publ c departments. He would now give the numbers
employed during the last month, in which the increase
had been very great:— Men.
The week ending Feb. 6 615,051
// 13 605,715
20 668,749
19 27. 708,228
On looking back at the proceedings he was firmly per-
suaded that unless a very large outlay oc money had
been made from the national treasury, many of those
who were now employed would have died from
the want of the means of subsistence.—(Hear.)
He thought this very large outlay was justified, and was
to be justified by the great emergency of the case. It
was undertaken to prevent an increase in the number of
persons who had died in Ireland *from want of food.
But while during the months of November, December,
January, February, and, indeed, part of March, they
had continued these works on that great scale, they .
bad never been insensible to the evils which
were tat( ndant upon these works, and it was
to be expected the evils would increase as
the works were enlarged. In the first place,
the immense increase in the number and crowds of
workmen, an increase which ranged from 30,000 to
40,000 at the commencement to 708,228, had made it al
most impossible for the Board of Works, however it had
exerted itself, or did exert itself, to keep that due order
and regularity which ought to be observed on the public
works. Let him say, however, at the same time, that
the degree to which order and regularity had been ub
served, was not only a matter of praise, but of great as-
tonishment. It had been done, in the first place, by the
exertions of the officers of the Board of Works
themselves, awl in the next place by the exertions of the
military and officers who were placed under the con-
stabulary of the Board of Werks, and lastly by the
exertions of the Executive Government, and the mili-
tary arid constabulary at their disposal. The conse-
quence had been that, although it would have
been impossible to see whether a due quan-
tity of work was performed by each individual,
there had not been any general confusion in
the works, or the regularity of the payments. Still
there had been, and it was to be expected there would
be, something dishonest and speculative on the part
of those clerks who were engaged in superintending
and paying the men engaged on the works.
But part of the irregularity arising in the perfoJmance
of the works was to be attributed to the inability of
some of the persons employed to perform the work
assigned to them, in consequence of the want of that
sustenance is hich was requisite to enable them to
perform that amount of work which was necessary to
enable them to procure a sufficient sum of money for the
purohase of food; and thus their overseers and the

other persons over them naturally felt unwilling to
oblige them to perform tasks to which they
Were unequal, or to give them a sum ir:suffi-

cient to meet those demands for food. They
had, therefore, reduced the amount of the task-work,
and consequently the amount of work performed was
not to be considered an equivalent for the wages given,
but rather an amount equivalent to that which they were
enabled to perform. This had led to irregularity, be.
cause while some were altogether unable to perform the
task assigned, and it was impossible to make them do so,
others, who were able and strong, and capable of per-
forming those tasks, had taken advantage of this state of
things, to come at late hours of the morning, at ten and
eleven, and as late as twelve o'clock, and said that as
they were performing task-work they were not obliged
to attend at replier periods. But a further evil was
the consequence of these irregularities, at this par-
ticular season, as ['they would learn from the report
of the Board of Work for last month. (The Noble Lord
then read a quotation from the report, to show that as
this system of task-work had been introduced on the
Iblic works, the labourers earning Is. 6d. a day were
averse to attend to the cultivation of the soil,
and the
re
wages
susequence had been that a higher
rate
thia had been induced.) In consequence of
report, corroborated as it had been by a great num.
ber of representationso from individual officers employed
in various parts
commissariat
country, and in different depart-
ments of the
:ariat and the Board of Works ;
and in consequence
Gu vern men t de termineocil these representations, the
Ilahinpgotshsaainbt it
to reduce, as far
at was
sat necessary
esaroyf
the year—w hen lours
should take
place to prepare for bho cominginthg were deter-
ey crops_
min( d. as far as possible, to reduce in?mber on those
public work., and on these groundshis Right U
Friend the S,,cretary of State for the Home Depa nion'
bad written a letter to the Lonl-Lieutenant of Irtrelent
d
advising that, ai far as possible, the number of thosei
labourers should be diminished, and that no
further presentmerrlfs should be made unless upon
special grounds grounds upon which he should
be required to make a report to the Secretary of
State for Ireland. The Treasury had likewise directed
that notice should be given that from Saturday, the 20th
March, the number of persons employed on the public
works should be reduced in the proportion of 20 per cent.
The last Treasury minute gave instructions to the over-
seers to take off flora the public works those persons
who might receive any rations of soup or other food. It
was hoped, therefore, that when all those arrangements