The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-25 00:00:00

Lord J. RUSSELL, who Was indistinctly heard, said
that with respect to the power of the Poor-law Commis-
sioners to take evidence on oath, that power was given
them by the Act, and it was therefore unnecessary for
him to give any other answer. With respect to the
propriety of exercising that power, he might, with equal
propriety be esllvd upon to discuss any other provision
of the Bill by way of question.—(Hear, hear.) It
seemed to him that there might be certain questions in
which it would be proper for the Commissioners to exa-
mine in this manner. Whether in this particular case
there had been atay abuse of power he was unable to

state, not knowing the circumstances which, perhaps,
on the discussion of the Poor-law Amendment Bill, the
Hon. Gentleman would state to the House.

REGISTRATION OF VOTERS (IRELAND)
BILL.
Lord STANLEY said he would postpone his Bill
unt 1 Friday next, not with any intention of then bring-
ing it forward, but of then announcing when he would
do so.

ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE BILL.
In answer to a question by Sir E. SUGDEN,
Lord J. RUSSELL said that on Friday next ha
proposed to bring forward Lord Keane's Annuity Bill
first, then the second reading of the County Courts'
Bill, and then, if there were time, to go into the Admi-
nistration of Justice Bill.

PARLIAMENTARY
VOTERS' BILL (IRE-
The Order of the Day for the adjourned debate hay.
ing been read,

--
Mr. BROTHERTON, who was for some time inau-
dible, in consequence of laughter and noise in the
House, supported the second reading of the Bill. In
declaring his own opinion, he expressed the sentiments
of his co ostituents, from whom he had presented peti-
tions with five thousand signatures for justice to Ire-
land. In this country the inadequacy of the represen-*
tation was the greatest cause of complaint. But in
England, the proportion of representation was as one
in twenty to the population ; in Scotland, it was
as one in twenty-six ; but in Ireland, it was
only as one in seventy.—(Hear, hear.) He be-
lieved that the Bill of the Noble Lord oppo-
site would tend to curtail the franchise in Ireland, and
he therefore considered it unjust in principle, and that
the Irish people had fair grounds for complaining of it.
On the other hand he thought that the B 11 introduced

by the Noble Lord, the Secretary for Ireland, woulc

give general satisfaction in Ireland, and that it would at
the same time meet with the approval of the people of
England, and tend to unite the inhabitants of the two

countries and promote the good understanding between
them. For his part he was opposed to the repeal of
the Union, to which he could never give his consent, but
he thought it advisable that they should have it in their
power to resist unreasonable and unjust demands by com-
plying with just ones. He thought it good policy to
grant graciously what they could not refuse safely.
The 81l before the House would, in his opinion, put
an end to perjury, fraud, and litigation in the Irish Re-
gistration Courts ; and seeing the great benefits that
would result from it to both countries, he had no hesi-
tation in giving it his meat cordial and earnest support.
Mr. M. MILNES hoped that the House would per-
mit him to say a few words in explanation of the vote
which he intended to give on the Bill then before the

House. He was the more anxious to do so, in conse-
quence of the misrepresentations which the Noble Lord
the Member for North Lancashire, when he introduced
a Bill of a different nature, had been subjected
to misrepresentations which every supporter of the
Noble Lord's Bill should be prepared to bear. He felt
the greatest anxiety that that great and important
question should be finally settled ; and he sincerely
regretted that her Majesty's Government had
brought forward a measure which must, es they
all knew, prevent that feli?itous conclusion.—(Hear.)
They had heard a great deal during the debate of the
difference between the detail and the principle of the
Bill, and a spect.tor or reader of the debate would have
much difficulty in determining the one from the other ;
for while one party had maintainei that the alteration
in the franchise was a matter of no importance
whitcver that it was simply and accidentally
tacked to the Bill ; by another party it was

maintained the whole B:11 rested on it—(Hear, bear)—
and to such an extent was that inconsistency carried
that his Right Hon. Friend the Member for Edin-
burgh commenced his speech list night by stating that
he considered the amount of the 51. franchise as a mat-
ter of no importance and almost irrelevant to the sub-
ject, and concluded by saying that the franchise
itself was the great principle of the Bill. But
as to the met•er of detail he must state to
the House that even supposing the Poor-law
in Ira Ind was established, and had become an or-

ganise I system, instead of being the commencement o
an experiment, he did not see that it would then be
a more fair and just foundation for the franchise than
any other system that could be devised. But when
they beard such variations as those that had been
trade in - the valuation of land in Ireland,
and how tot Illy inconsistent they were with
one another, he coull not say that he could agree even
to th it point of detail at the prescet moment.—(Hear,
hear.) There were also inconveniences attached to
that mode of rating, which he did not think could
be satisfactorily got over according to the Bill of
the Noble Lord, and in that respect he could point
to the contrast between the Bill of the Noble Lord
the Secretary for Ireland, and the Bill which the lion.
Member for Monaghan (Mr. Lucas) presented last
yea-. Between those two Bills there was this most
important distinction, that while under the Bill which
the Noble Lord had brought forward a voter might
perchance not possess the interest of a single
shilling in his tenantcy, which gave him the
right to vote—that in fact it was in et cry sense the
right of the landlord and not the right of the tenant—
the B li for the Hon. Member for Monaghan vested that
right in the occupy ing tenant and the occupant alone.
In the position which be occupied in the House, it
would be impertinent in him to attempt to enter into
the details of the B(11, but he must say a few words as
to the principle of the Biil Now, whether he consi-
derel the admissions made by his Right Hon. Friend
the Member for Edinburgh last evening, or the contra-
dictions of other gentlemen who had spoken on the other
side, he would appeal to the House and the country,
whether the principle of the Bill was not the augmentation
of the franchise in Ireland.—(Hear, heir.) One point
more as to the introduction of the Bill. If her Ma-
jetty's Ministers had really intsndcl to pass that all,
so Volt it might become law—if they really felt
the danger to be so immincet and pressing they
never would have brought that all into the House
with such a provision attached to it as they knew
must prevent its ever passing into law. He had no
objection to the Ministers of the Crown bringing for-
ward measures which they wish to become law, although
they may be aware they cannot pass them at the time, in
order to accustom the public mind to consider the subject,
so that eventually, the measure may become law. It
was in that way that Roman Catholic Emanci-
pation had been carried. It was in that way
that the Recorm Bill had become law ; but were
they to wait in this manner whole years for
the Bill of the Noble Lord, when they had
a measure in the Bill of the Noble Lord the
Member for Lancashire, which they were ready to
bring into Committee, and submit to any alteration
which the House might think fit to adopt. He wished
to impress upon the House that the Government had
not brought forward this measure with any intention
that. it should pass into a law. It was evident they
had some ulterior object in view, and as to what that
might be every one must form his own opinion. One
thing, however, was most remarkable throughout this
debate, and that was the silence of the Gentlemen wko
took a radical view of political affairs.—(Cheers. They
seemed to have retired into silent self congratulation,
for they saw that they bad now got the Government on
their own ground—on the reilroad of progressive reform.
Before he sat down he would remark upon the conclu-
sions that had been come to by his Right Honourable
Friead the Member for Edinburgh, when he mentioned
the possibility that the great and loyal people of
Ireland should join the enemies of the British Em-
pire.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") When they remem-
bered with what scorn Ireland had received such
an imputation, could they for a moment think that that
great people would forfeit their allegiance to the British
empire ? Now that the distinctions of caste and creed
were done away with, Ireland and England formed one
part of the British empire. He would ask the Hon.
Member for Dublin whether he believed, if this measure
passed into a law, the people would be content with this
nominal franchise ?—(Hear, bear.) It was not by these
bmeans
enlighteningthat lreland
the was
ppeople
pro be
of
thatat t a cohed
ouottor y
,Eanogdl a
bn
ido,dbi
ougt
therm by mutual understanding and mutual interest.
That great object was also to be effected by a system
of education, and a union of religious differences, which
the Noble Lord, who had been so maligned, had en•
deavoured to establish.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said, that as the proposi-
tion then before the House was a new one, he trusted
that he might be permitted briefly to state his views
upon it, and the reasons which could induce him to vote
for the second reading of the Bill. He had often ex-
pressed his opinion that in Ireland there never could
be any sound and satisfactory system of registration
until it was based upon a new footing, He could not
help expressing his regret that the Noble Lord who led
the opposition to this Bill should have stated that under
no combination of circumstances would
he give his as-
sent to a rating under the Poor-law. He had hoped that
however the details might be objected to, however they
might think that the franchise was too low, all would
be willing to support some plan for placing the elec-
tive franchise upon a sure and sound foundation.
But however vast the improvement proposed, he
was bound to say that it did not go to the
root of the evil.—(Hear.) The constituencies would
continue to diminish from year to year. In Ire.
land
of therethe
w laasnaalsotredesdyinantelhart country
dinnctryrease of prosperity
—(Hear, hear)—but there was an indisposition on the
part
to confer upon
their tenants the means of acquiring the elective fran-