The Sun.
London, England, 1823-06-05 00:00:00

Wariesaes to the above Cure:-.

John Thonkpson, No. 3, New Poultry Market, FAlin'hurgb
John lAAssembly Close, Edinburgh,
Wintosh, 0.

Prepared and sold by the sole Proprietor, Ttiomis Thy-
lA)R, hketuber of the . Royal College. of Surgeons, at his
hoUse, No. 9, New Bridge-street,* London; whine, after a
constant residence of inure than 40 years, iii a practice. parti-
cularly directed to the cure of Venereal omplaints and those
incidental to the Parts of Generation, with that inviolable
secrecy which men of his professionslionid alWays observe in
such cases, he Hatters himself the advice and assistance he
sratuiteasly administers to persons taking this Medicine, will
be esti:cowl, by a discerning Public, as an advantage seldom
attainalsle, And void of all ambignity.
Also sold, by bit appoibtotent, tor the convenience of those
living at a distance, at the Yoyshop, Nu. 103, Oxford-street;
Mr; I)isboroughls. No. Fish-street-hill; Mr. Baxter
S'mrtli-bridge, -"Edinburgh ; 'Mt .• Cal lwel 'fi, Dublin ; and oi
one.'person in every considerable tows in Groat Britain end
Ireland in boxes e foniy 2s. 9d. each, stamped, and sealed up
,
~,,,ti, Nit and plain directions, whereby persons, of either
sex may curs themselves with ease, speed, secrecy, and safety.

REDUCED FARES, and UNEQUALLED TRAVELLING,
TO DOVER, DEAL, RAMSGA MARGATE, AND
CANTERBURY.
FOUR INSIDE COACHES, AND KEEP GOOD TIME,
By S. A. MOUNTAIN and Co.
SARACEN'S HEAD INN, SKINNER STREET, SNOW-
HILL. LONDON.
THE following LIGHT POST-COACHES,
and MAILS, &c. set out from the above 11111:—
The "Telegraph,' DOVER, Deal, itatusgate Margate,
Broadstairs, Canterbury, Fevershaut, and Sandwich. new
Post-Coach—every Morning at a quarter past 7 o'Claek. In
consequence of the decided preference given to the Telegraph
Coach, the Proprietors are determined nu expellee shall he
spared to render it the first conveyance on the Kent mid.
BROMPTON, Chatham, Rochester Gravesend, Stroud,
Sittingbourne, Rainham, and Ospringe, Morning, Quarter
past 7, at Reduced Fares.
The " Royal Eclipse," FALMOUTH, Plymouth.' Exeter,
Intro, Bodmin, Penryn, Ashburton, Totness, Dartmouth,
Weymouth, Dorchester, and Salisbury, every mornieg at
Seven ; through Ilunitert, Axminster, tit idpurt, Blandford,
Stockbridge, Sutton, Basingstoke, Hartford Bridge, lilack-
water, and Bagsbot.
• The only Day Coach to WEYMOUTH, (driven throuJ)
with Two Coachmen only), through Bagshat, Illachwater,
Basingstoke, Overton, Whitchurch, Andover, Wotolveats,
Cashinore, Salisbury, Blandford, and Dorchester, at tr
Quar-
ter past Five u'Clock in the Morning, at reduced Fat es.
The " Union," SOUTHAMPTON, Lymitigt nn, Lyndhurst,
Winchester, Basingstoke, Hartford Bridge, Black water, and
Bagshut, New Four Inside Coach, every Morning at 8 &Cluck ;
arrives at the Coach and Horses and Vine Inn, Southampton,
by Five. This is a most delightful Conveyance to the Isle of
Wight, Jersey, Guernsey, St. Makes, Havre de Grace, Cher
bough, &c.—The Proprietors of the above Coach hope to
receive a continuance of that support which has hitherto been
experienced since the commencement of I he " Union."
The " Champion," a New light Day Coach to DOR-
CHESTER, in 13 Lours only, through Bagshot, Illackwit•
ter, Basingstoke, Overton, Whitchurch, Andover, Salis-
bury, Woody eats, Cashmore, and 131andlord, at a Quarter
past Five o'clock in the morning. The Proprietors of the
Champion Coach are determined no expence shall he spared
to render it the first cutiveyarice on the Western Road.
BATH and BRISTOL Post-Coaches, throng!' Chippers-
ham, Caine, Marlborough, Newbury, and Reading, sleety
Afternoon at one ; arrive at the Greyhound Inn, Bath, the
London Tavern, 'Thomas-street, and Swan, Bristol, early the
next Morning.—Coaches to Wells, Bridgewater, Taunton,
and Plymouth, at reduced Fares.
The " Umpire," a New LIVERPOOL Light Coach, only
one Night on the Road, carrying Four inside, sets out Daily
at One ; arrives at Liverpool next afternoon at Five, thi ough
Woburn, Latlibury, Northampton, Welford, Lutterworth,
Hinckley, Atherstone, Litchfield, Stone, Newcastle, Kautz-
!tad, Warrington, and Prescot.
SHREWSBURY, Wellington, and Shiffnat, Light Post-
Coach, every Afternoon.—Guartled.
The "Champion," WEYMOUTH; through Dorchester,
Blatalford, Salisbury, Andover, Overton, Basingstoke, Hart-
ford Bridge, Blackwater, and Bagshot, new light Day Coach,
at reduced Fares.—Packets from Weynitinth to Guernsey,
Jersey, Cherbourg, St. Mahn's, &c. every Wednesday and
Saturday afternoon, at Two o'Clock.
BARNSTAPLE end Southmolton New Light Post Coach
every Monday, Wednesday, anti Friday Mornings, at Seven
o'Clock.
The " Rockingham," PEEDS light Post Coach, sets out
every Afternoon at Two; atul passes through Baldock, Big. v
gleswade, Eaton, litickden, Stilton, IVansfovit, Stamford,
Greetham, Grantham, Newark, Tuxford, Markham Moor,
Retfoul, liawtry, Doncaster, and Ferrybridge, arrives at the
Golden Lion Inn, Leeds, next Afternoon at Three o'Clock.
in time for the Bradford, Halifax, Skjpinn, and iluadm_
field Coaches, at Reduced Fares (driven through with Fonr
Coachmen only).—Luggage and Packages only id per in.—
Notwithstanding the uncommon Expedition ut this Coach, it
is allowed to be the most egterable and complete Public
Conveyance on the North Road, being unequalled by any
other.
HARROWGATE and Ripon new Light Post Coaches, 'every
Afternoon at Two and Eight in the Morning.
GLASGOW, Longtown,Gretna-green, Annan, Dumfries,
Brownhill, Thornhill, Sanquhar-Kiln, Caumock, Kings-
well, and all Parts of Scotland, a light Four isiside Post
Coach daily.
The " Express," to YORK, Scut-borough, Whitby, Shields,
Sunderlaittl, Newcastle, and Edinburgh, a New light Four,
inside Post Coach, with a Guard throughout; sets out
every Morning, by way of Newark, Itetford, Dniicaster;
Ferrybridge, Tadeester, Darlington, Northallerton, Durham,
Min petit, and Berwick, and arrives at. York the next Mum.
ing at Twelve o'Clock, at reduced Fares. Passengers find-
ing themselves fatigued on the journey, may rest what
time they please, and then proceed without any additional
Fare.
MARLBOROUGH and Swindon, four•inside Day Coach,
through Aldboorti, Reading, Lambonni. Parton, Lydington
Pewsey, Wootton Basset, Ratosbury, Hungerford, Newbury
and Maidenhead.
BLUDGENORTH, Waists!, Shrewsbury, Salop, and Holy-
head New Light Coach, evet v Afternoon, at reduced Fares.
The New Royal Patent MiiiI,IIOSTON and Louth, thratigh
Royston, Cambridge, H tint ingdon,* Stilton, Peterborough,
Beeping, Spalding, Spilshy, Alford, Gtia,shy, and Hull,
Evening, at Half past Seven &Clock, Sunday, at a Quarter
before Seven.
The " litcpressi"-11 New Light Four-inside Post Coach to
CARLISLE, Penrith,- and Whitebart:'M, with a Gland all
the way, passes through Appleby Brough, Dawes; Greta-
bridge, Richmond, Catterick, litiroughlinde-e, Ferrybridge,
Doncaster, Newark, I%awtry, Ciranthairs. Stamford, Gree-
than), Stilton, Biggleswade, and Daldnek. Sets out in toe
!stunting, and perfortes the journey with the greatest faci-
lity; at reduced Fares. Passengers detained on the Road by
business or pleasure, have the peculiar advantage al their.
Seale being secured in the next Cuach.—The only direct
Coach taCarlisle.
The New Royal. Patent Mail, CAMBRIDGE, through
Ware, iluntingford, Dockland, mid Royston, Evening, at
Half past Serra o'Clock, Sunday, at a Quader before Scree.
KENDAL, Lancaster, Preston, Kirby-Lousslale, Bolton,
Charley, Otniskirk, and Garstang Light Post Coaches, every
Afternoon.
The " Royal Express," New Light Four Inside Post Coach;
to LIVERPOOL, in 28 hours only, through Warrington,'
Prescot, Congleton, Lawton, Newcastle, Itudgly, F.turtsford,
Stone-, Stafford, and Litchfield, -(only One Night on the
Road), every Afternoon; arrives at the Saracen's Head Inn,
Dale-ttrect, Liverpool, next Evening, at Seven, at reduced
Fares.
WAKEFIELD Four inside Post-Coaches, every Morning
and Afternoon, at reduced-Fares:
CHESTER, Newport, Whitechurch, Tarparley, Nampt-
wick, Northwich, and Middlewich Light Post-Couch, every
Afternoon. •
SUNDERLAND, Stockton, anti Yarn) Light Post Coat li,
every Morning, to the George Iran, Sunderlaitd, at reduced
Fares.
Mountain's " Express," to MANCHESTER, Winslow,
Congleton, Newcastle, Walsal, Wolverhataptiot, sod K nuts-
ford, new Four Insole Post-Coach, every Afternoon.-'Only
One Night on the Road, at reduced Fares
SHEFFIELD and Rotherham New Four inside Post
Coaches every Morning, called " The Express," and also
" The Rockingham," every Afternoon, at reduced Fares.
'flee " Woyal Express," New BIRMINGHAM Light Putt
Coach, seta out every Afternotin, carrying Four Inside only;
passes through Warwick, Leamington, Southern, Weethin,
Daventry, Stuney.Stratford, and Toweester, to the Sa*acett's
Head, Bull-street, Birmingham, early the next Morning, at
reduced Fares.
The " Express," a New Light Post Coach, to HULL, Lin
cola, Northeaer, Howden, and Doncaster, every Morning at
Eight o'Clock, to the Cross Keys, Market-place, ; and
also the " Rockingham" in the Afternoett at Two °Thick.
HERTFOItD, Ware, Holdestion, and Cheshunt Coeds,
at reduced Fares,.
TO'CI'ENHAM anti Edintinton Coaches daily, at Eleven,
Half-past Two, Five, anti Eight o'clock,.
*am At Reduced Fares to Leeds, York, and Doncaster,
Luggage and Packages at only ed per pound.
S. A. MOUNTAIN and Co. tespectftilly acquaint then
Friends and the Public'; that they will not he accomitable tot
any Parcels. Passenget'a ,Luggage, Writings, Plate, &r. of
more than Five Pounds Value, if lost, stolen, or damaged,
unless entered as such, and tha Insurance paid ecturd.
ingly, at the Sat setti's Head Inn, Skinner-street, Snowshill,
London.

Mr. LOWTHER. presented a Petition from, a Parish in
Cumberland against • Negro Slavery.—Ordered to lie on the
table.
Mr. GOULBUR,N obtained leave to bring in a Bill for the
better administration of Justice in the Court of Chancery, in
Ireland.
FOREIGN WOOL DUTY.
Lord MILTON presented a petition from the Merchants and
Manufacturers of Leeds, praying for the repeal of the Duty-on
Foreign Wool. The _profits of those whose capital wag ern.
barked in the Wool Trade had of late been very much dimi.
nished; but they had no doubt been much benefited by the re:
duction in the.price of agricultural produce, and by the partial
repeal of taxes which had been_ granted by Ministers. The
petitioners wished for a repeal 'of this duty, because they wish.
ed to invite fbreign commerce. Ile should intake no motion on
the subject during the present Session, as he was not satisfied
that lie could overcome the prejudices of the landed interest on
this subject. He was, however, satisfied that the duty did not
tend to increase the price of English wool.
Mr. T. WILSON agrtal that the duty had . not had the
effect anticipated by those who were concerned in the wool
trade. He had no doubt himself that it had proved mischiev-
°us to the growers of English wool.
Mr. CURWEN thought a strong case ought tribe made out
before this duty should be repealed. -
The CII qE141,011, of the EXCHEQUER, said the tax
was imposed as one of revel:me, and was not intended foe the
particular benefit of the agricultural interest. Ithad produced
4110,0001. in the last year, and. was likely to increase. •,JlO, did
not think it heti operated prejudicially ; but he should npt.op,
pose the repeal, Provided, in return, the prohibition egelustthe
exportation of wool were to be taken oft
Mr. DICKINSON spoke in favour of the petition and Sir
CHARLES By ntlEi.t. againist it.
Mr. PHILLIPS said the tax had acted most prejudicially,
and had been the means
of putting down several manufac,
turers of inferior wool.
Sir M. W. RIDLEY regretted to Lind that the same perni.
cious doctrine which bud so long prevailed, of laying on one
tax for the relief of the agricttlturel interest, and another for
that of the manufacturing Interest, was still advocated in that
IlOuse. Heshougsht the duty ought to be repealed.
Mr. G. BENNET said he knew that a very general desire
prevailed for the repeal of this Tax. It had been the means
of lowering the value of English wool.
Mr. WODEIIOUSE . observed that the Hon. Member for
Yorkshire was the first in the Committee to vote fur 4 repeal of
this tax, although he was now the first to resistit.
Mr. S. WOR r LEY said he had as yet heard nothing to
convince him that a free export of wool would benefit the
people of this country. If means were devised to export wool
from Sussex and Norfolk, he should be the last man to object
to it, but that he thought rather impracticable. He did not
think it politic that coarse wool, a staple of this country,
could be exported without great injury to ourselves. Before
any such permission were allowed, he thought a Committee
of Inquiry should be appointed to investigate the subject.
The petition was then read and ordered to be laid on the
table. .
Lord MILTON presented a similar petition from Hudders-
field. Ile took that opportunity of observing that he had no
doubt the Duty had been laid on by the Government with a
view to purposes of revenue 4 but he had as little doubt that it
was granted by the agricultural interest with a view to their own
protection.
After a few words from Sir C. BURRELL; Lord MILTON;
and Mr. S. WORTLEY in explanation,
Mr. CURWEN spoke shortly in favour of the petition.
Mr. HUSKISSON said the Tax would be repealed if the
parties wished it, provided they would consent to give up the
prohibition on exportation.
tbsletirper,initetresed, nas
tedwail another, to
by Mr. DlC-
theTshaempeetiitfrimiectwfarsoomrdsoeremdetrose
EINSON.
Mr. 11. BARING presented a petition from several Silk.
weavers against the Spitaltithis Act.. _.ordered to he laid on
the table.
A Message from the Lords here announced their Lordships'
assent to several Bills.
poor]

Mr. DENISON presented a petition from the County of
Surrey; complaining of the operation of the Poor Laws, as re.
garded Settlements. The petitioners prayed for an alteration
he should to-morrow present
of these Laws, and particularly that the wages of labourers
might not be paid out of the rates.—The petition was rend, and
e a question, whether
ordered to lie on the table.
a petition Ir.llCtoWtlblOe yi
the. Government had a let, at the public expence, to try legal
SotEises,a.iwdititeilltatwould raise
cases in the names of in ividuals?

BREACH OF PRIVILEGE.
Mr. JONES rose to call theattention of the House to a para.
graph which had appeared in the Morning Chronicle, reflect..
mg en the proceedings of that House last night, without, how.
ever, intending to found any harsh measure thereupon. The
paragraph to which he alluded was as follows :—*"The small
majority of six last night in a House of 198, is perfectly deci-
sive of the sentiments of l‘legibers with respect to the abomina-
ble pmceetlings in the case of
.Il9rthvnek. An analysis of that
majority will be a curious exhibition. We should like to see
the names,-...they must be moat valuable partisans—they are
eavmidotienotlnyh:::tde.dtotc:alalluothvet
attention of the House to the nature of. the motion.. It was not
names,-,-they
a. general little.but" It He
severe
censure upon the Lord Advocate. It called upon the

The SPEAKER obseried, that the motion for delivering in
thepaper had not yet been put.
Mr. CANNING begged pardon. Ile . thought the motion
had been agreed tot but that not being the case, he hoped the
Hon. Member would not press it. It was fortunate that the
paper had not been delivered in, because no question marl
arise as to the manner .of disposing of it. In cues where an
individual found his own conduct grossly misrepresented, it was
very natural that he should take any means of righting himself;
but great inconvenience would arise if every person forming one
of a majority against which reflections had been made were to
take up the time of the Muse by explaining his motives, and,
in fact, re-debating the question upon which he had voted.—
(Hear 1).-11e hoped that the Honourable Member, having sa-
tisfied his own nice sense of honour, would allow the subject
to drop.
Mr. 11. .MARTIN wished to make one observation. He
would not second any motion which was preposterous. He was
surprised the Hen. Member for Westminster should call any
motion which was a breach of privilege preposterous.—(A
laugh.)—lie (Mr. Martin) thought that he could not refuse
tit second any motion which was a breach of privilege.—
(14aUghter.)-,Calling the motion preposterous was a propos-
.
tern as expression.
Mr. Serjeant ONSLOW was of opinion that the lion. Mem.
her for Westminster did not mean to say any thing ofrensive to
either the mover or the seconder. •
Mr. JONES then withdrew his motion.
POOR LAWS.

. Col: WOOD "rose to bring.forward the Motion of which he
had given notice respecting the Poor Laws. If the resolinione
he should propose were just in themselves, he trusted they
would not suffer from being introduced by an imperfect ad-
vocate. By the 43d of Elizabeth, which he thought a cha•
ritable and humane Act, he found not a word respectin the
Law of Settlement. A year's residence, by the former laws,
had. been sufficient to .entitle a poor person to relief. The
foundation .of the present law of settlement was laid by the
statutes. of Charles the Second. He thought the subsequent
laws relating to removal were infringements upon the liberty
of the ,poorer classes. A poor man, under the present law,
having passed, many, yeah; of an industrious life, was liable to
be sent among strangers to finish the remainder of his days.—
After shortly noticing the progress of the different laws re-
specting a settlement by residence, the Honourable Member
observed that they hail led to almost ruinous litigation.—By.
the Act of the thirty-fifth of the late King, it was declared
that no settlement. should he gained by the payment of rates
for a tenement under 101. a-year. He thought thjs was a
most iniquitous enactment, for most of the cottages rented by
the poor were under 101. a-year. It this lain were retained,
the poor tenants ought to be exempted from the rate. The
expence of litigation on this subject was 300,0001. a4ettr ; and
the number of appeals was 4700. Ile should propose Reidu.
tions, stating that the present law, in this respi.ct, was highly
oppressive in its effects upon the poor. This was the system
he wished gradually to ameliorate. lid wished to do so by
making residence the only test of parochial' relief. It was not
from the agricultural districts that he 9pected opposition ; for
he believed there were as many pasied in as out in the course
of the year. The large manufacturing places were those which
were likely to oppose it. Yet it was impossible that the present
law of removal could be made practicable; for how was it possi-
ble in a large manufacturing town, or a parish where a manufac-
tory happened to be established, that all the persons thrown out
of work could be carrietl before a Magistrate ; and, after a pa.
tient investigation into the law of settlement, dispatched seve-
rally to their proper pariiliee. He might be told that this was
an extreme case; but he begged, in answer to that, to say that
such a case had actually occurred on the tontines of hii own
county, where, in consequence of the failure' of two iron manu-
factories, 5,000 persons were sent, adrift. The fee-simple of
the parish would not have put the law into execution, in send.
ing these Reeple to their respective parishes. What. he should
now propose was, that 15 years should establish a settlement
in a pariah. Then, as to What W3B to be Accounted a residence,
there might be much difference of opinion on that question.
Some might think that paying or poors'-rates, renting a house,
or residing with his family, could • constitute residence. But,
to avaid all difference on that point, he should propose that the
;Magistrate should determine under the circumstances of the
case laid before him. The Hon. Member quoted the Report
of the Committee of 1817 in support of his opinion. lie found
also that Mr. Pitt had recordedlns opinion in that House of the
necessity of amending the Poor Laws,
.observingthat as these
laws had departed from the original spirit of die institution in
the time of Elizabeth, their utility had become impaired, anti
their benevolent purpose frustrated, It might, however, be
said, that Air. Pitt knew nothing about poor laws, especially
when considered with reference to one opinion of his, vie.--that
the existence of a large family ought to entitle a man. at all
times to parochial relief, in consideration of the service he
thereby did the State. Mr. Pitt's opinion, in which he WAS
much disposed to concur, was, that the possession of a family
ought to.obtain for the owner the hiurel, in place of the crown
of opprobrium, It was by thus treating the people of tins
country that we should hereafter obtain from than dud zeal in
be cause of their totting which they had but so lately shewn.

Mr. SCA RLETT was willing to give his warmest support
to the Resolutions of his Hon. Friend. He could not agree with
his Noble Friend that this plan would increase litigation; be-
cause there could he no question if a residence of fifteen years
were established. His opinion, however, on this subject was,
that no alteration whatever would succeed which did not strike
at the principle of the present system. The object of his propoe
sitions to the House last Session on this subject was Ist, to put
limits to the amount of assessment of poor rates: 2d, to confine
the application of the funds to those individuals only for whom
the original charitable intention of the system meant them;
third, to check the extensive opetation of the complicated law
of removal.. The poor rates had gone on increasing in amount
for some time, and he was convinced were increasing, and
would continue to do so till they readied analarroing height.—
Before any change, whatever could be made, however, it was
absolutely necessary to change the cruel and oppressive enact-
ments of the poor of the country, relating to the law of re-
movals. If he were a labouring man, he should say, "If
you do not give me a free circulation of the only commodity
I possess, viz. the labour of my hands, 1 call upon you as a
right to support me in the place of my birth during life."
It a labouring man being so overtaken by misfortune as to re-
quire one shilling parochial relief, he was to be carted off to the
place of his birth, he maintained he had a right to demand to
be for ever kept in that place, since removing from there in
search of a market for his labour was to subject him to such
severe visitations. Such a system of law was severe and unjust,
and could not fail of producing the evils of which all com-
plained. It was said that it operated as a penal law in prevent-
ing application to the parish for relief. He admitted the force
of it in that respect, but not the justice. With regard to the
bearing of this question upon the agriculturists of the kingdom,
it was certainly true that they were the,, reatest sufferers by
the present system, although they had not been disposed tri
second his efforts for an alteration in their favour last year. It
would he found upon examination, that in the manufacturing
towns the poor.rates were always lower than in the agricultural
districts. The reason of this was, that as soon as the workmen
there were useless they were sent back to prey upon the land
whence they came. It was the towns where Blithe money and
property was collected. Ile implored the House, therefore, to
adopt the proposed experiment of his Hon. Friend. None
could be more gradual ; it was constructed with infinite eau•
tion; and, as the subject was, of infinite importance, it de-
manded at least, that attention from the House. The experi-
ment was no more than that of not removing a man who had
resided fifteen years in a parish. Nothing could be safer, and
nothing, at the same time, more just.
Mr.-LOCKHART said, he was decidedly of opiiiion that
the alarming state of the Poor Laws called for some iegis-
lative interference; but he did not altogether feel disposed. to
second the views of the Hon. Mover of these Resolutions. His
Own opinion was, that the best plan would be, to endeavour
to establish such a system of laws as should make it neither
too difficult nor too easy to acquire a settlement.
Mr. Secretary PEEL said, Ite wished he could prevail upon
his lion. Friend to withdraw his Resolutions for the present,
until they could have more full discussion on the subject, and
should he more prepared to follow them up. He proposed he
should withdraw them in favour of leave to bring in a Bill.
His reason for thinking this would be the most appropriate
eOurse was, that if the House agreed to these Resolutions,
they pledged themselves to sacrifice every thing to introduce a
remedy, which they were in no respect ripe for. The Resod
lutions, besides, went into very great details, and made many
serious charges of misdemeanour against several parts of the
kingdom, to which it would be highly inconvenient for the
House to give its sanction. Now the preference to a Bill was,
that it would then be generally before the House, and in the
hands of every Member, whereas at present very few Mem-
bers would really know what they were voting for, If, there..
fore his Hon. Friend were to accede to his proposal, he could
ask leave in a day or two to bring in his Bill, the principle
could be discussed on the second reading, and it might go
through a Committee pro j.brout to have the blanks tilled up.
In that state it might be circulated during thelecess through
the manufacturing districts which were.especially epposed.to
the plan, and early in next Session the Hon. Gentleman might
have a very full diseuesion on the subject, satisfactory to all
parties. He should certainly give his support to such a course,
for there wae so much of admitted evil in the system of Poor
Laws, that shy plan which could call the serious consideration
'of Parliament to the 'abject must be advantageous.
After a few words from Mr. Monck, Mr. W. Smith, Mr. C.
Smith, and Mr. Scarlett,
Colonel WOOD obtained leave to withdraw his motion, in
favour of a notice that he would ask leave to-morrow to bring
in a Bill on the subject.
CHIEF BARON O'GRADY.

Mr. S. RICE, under the conviction that the discussion re.-
garding the conduct of Chief Baron O'Grady, which stood for
to-night, could not come on till too late an hour, expressed his
wish to lay the resolutions he intended to submit upon the table,
that they might be printed, and that the debate might take
place on Monday. He moved accordingly, that on Monday
the House should resolve itself into a Committee on the re..
port of the Commissioners on the emoluments, &e., of Courts'
of Justice, and on the judicial fees of the Lord Chief Baron of
the Exchequer in Ireland.
On the motion that the resolutions be printed,
Mr. CANNING expressed his doubts whether the premature
drinting of the resolutions would not operate a degree of indivi.
uel injustice.
Air. S. RICE added, that his only object was to facilitate the
discussion. _ _ _

It was then ordered that the resolutions do lie upon the table,
open to the inspetiion of Members.
COURTS OF CIIANCE.RV.

Mr. IV ILIA A MS was aware that considerable difficulty
tended the performance of the task which be hail taken upon
himself. A chtmour, if he might note the word, was commonly
raised against every thing that could be called innovation, anti
he admitted that there were peculiar grounds for objecting to
any material alteration being made in the mode of conducting
judicial proceedings, as considerable inconvenience must fur
n time result froni such a change. But within, the last three
years three ehangeti had been made in the mode of proceeding
in the Court of King's Bench, and in the course of the last ten
years a most sweeping revolution (he could call it by no other
name) had befallen the Court of Chancery. Weary of such
changes, he wished to adopt a system which would preclude.
the necessity of further change and avowing this to be the
principle upon which he acted, 'he looked for the unanimous
and consistent support of those who opposed innovation. The
subject adMitted not of ornament, at least in his bawls, awl un-
fortunately there was no novelty in it, but nevertheless if it were
not for the manner in which he treated it, he was of opinion that
its importance was such that it could not be found wanting in
attraction. If ten years ago it hail been stated by a Noble
Marquis that " a more important question could not he brought
into discussion;" 'and if ten years ago it had been asserted
that " the delays in Chancery amounted to an absolute denial
of justice," what might not now be said, looking- at die
situation in which the-business of the Court stood at this thy:
after the failure of that measure - which had been adopt-
ed to remedy the evil, but which had not only failed in
itself, but, had radically revolutionized the Court of C 11411..
eery. , His 'Honourable. Friend, who had been in the
habit of bringing this subject before the IIMIXO, had on
every OCCASIOII been met by the objection that a presummiyo
case for inquiry was necessary to be made out before the house
could seem to countenance the supposition, that all was not
done in the Court of Chanettry, which industry. pertseverance,
decision In learning, and all that was necessary to the admi-
nistration of justice could /item. Now a presumptit n of a
different nature was admitted, anti ha, therefore. knew not en
what grounds the present motion could be resisted. Ile would
aPcsi:tiisPelawiih)nrio:ljecdl
prot.tiltietifl4ancyttentclabititelcdoinritnhtieitviusevenitirs,nelwe
ntuegarilt,,bire
oort
theal lCrt
duties
Court,
irre:ht co
fijnlt'eh Justice,
os
rift: from
ut
7c
it the;
nec
et
4.1 tctillte:he out,.

`,el the buSiness connected with matters of bankruptey. The
-next was for making the Chancellor of the Pueity of Lancas-
ter an efficidnt office, with a court of his own ; or, at any rate,"
for throwing, by some means, into his hands a part of that ac-
cumulated -business which was now reserved for the Lord ,
Chancellor. Another plan proposed the.appolntment of Come
miseionersto hear Scotch Appeals. A fifth plan went to put•
the business of the Court of Chancery into the hands of fottr
legal gentlemen, dyer whom the Lord Chancellor . should pre-
side as an appellant judge; and a sixth had been suggested by
an old practitioner well acquainted with the COurt of Chan-
cery, which wits,'-that one or more of the present Masters of
Chancery should, frenttirne to time; be authorized to hear and
decide cases in which the parties were content to submit to
their jurisdiction. It Watt also proposed that' 'they should hear
motions of course, and get through that business which was of
'least importance, but which now occupied no inconsiderable
portion of the time of the Court at -.present. This plan pre-
sented considerable advantages, machinery
which was known to the 'as it worked by
Court:,, and was therefore pre-
ferable to any that would - require new machinery, and
which on trial ;night be found full of evil. It would more-
over initiate a number of persone into the business of the
• ' Court, '•which they would be more and more qualified to disc
pose of in proportion as the suitors,. from conviction of the
adequaCy of their judgment, became content to abide by
° their decisions. Out of all these' plans, however, he woes un-
able to pronounce -for a preference to be given to any. He
thought the House incapable of deciding on this subject else.—
And why did he do so? Because the House had, ten years
• ago, proceeded to legislate on this matter without enquiry, and
adopted a measure which had proved futile, and was now abane
Boned and disowned. This, however, was deer, that a great
-.evil existed, which called for a remedy. The Bill w-hich
passed in 1013 set forth in its preitinble, that in conse-
quence of the business of the Court having greatly increas-
` ed, and being much in arrear„ the, appointment. of another
judge became necessary, and then the Bill proceeded to
enact that a Vice-Chancellor should be appointed. Such was
the state of the Court in 1013, and after the experience • they
had had of the measure produced .in that year, while the grieve
ance complained of was so obviously great, he could not inite-
:gine why any one' shoyild object to an inquiry now.- It must
ne supposed that sonic of his. of would have reference.
to the Learned Person at the head of the Court of Chancery.
This was unavoidable; but in what he had to offer, he should
not forget his own inferior situation, nor the elevated posi.l
-tion of that eminent anti highly gifted. Judge. He should
not forget that he himself was at the bottom of that prufes-
• sion, of which the Noble Lord to whom lie alluded had been
for more than a quarter of a century decidedly at the top,
and in which his authority was es potent as that of the dove-
reigns who formed die Holy Alliance ; and there was, he might
be allowed to remark, a greater probability of his retaining the
power he possessed till the end of his lite, than that, sonic of
them would retain theirs. That Noble Lord, venerable for
his age, and high in rank, boasted of legal acquisitions cer-
tainly never surpassed, and in his (Mr. Williams's) opinion,
perhaps never equalled, with varied information bearing on
every subject, and with experience which was.: unbounded.—
Could more be said of him in the shape of panegyric, he should
be ready to subscribe to it. But to the great and transcendent
qualities which the Noble Lord possessed, another quality
might be added, the defrutandi patientitv (as it was called by
/Lord Bacon), which leading its possessor to entertain learned
doubts, frequently perplexed and neutralized the exertion
of those great ahilities which hp possessed, if it, did not
abolish and destroy the beneficial effects which should flow
from them. The Honourable and Learned Gentleman con-
tended, that by doubting till such, proofs were produced as
might enable a Judge to decide with moral certainty on the
merits of a case, a total perversion of the • ground of reason-
ing took place. He would illustrate this by referring to a ease
which had long since gone by. . An ancient Monarch demanded
the opinion of the poet Simonides on a problem which he
caused to be laid before.. him. Simonides requested a day to
consider of it before be gave his answer. The King made no
• objection, bat waited with some impatience for the morrow,
which was to bring him the Infotmation he so much desired.
On the second day, however, instead of giving the answer, the
poet requested two days more to censider of the subject. The
King reluctantly consented to this; but when the two days had
elapsed the poet demanded finite anti when these were gone he
claimed eight, and thus proceeding in geometrical proportion he
at length exhausted the patience of the King, who, coming to
inquire why the oracular response, he so much desired was de-
nied, received this answer, " The longer time I take to think of
it the more I doubt." So he was of opinion that doubts enter-
tained under certain circumstances might involve the party
entertaining them in endless uncertainty, and render him unfit
to act in any ettee with decision; anti place -bins in a situation
like that of the rustic, who nroposed waiting by the side of the
river which he wished to crime till its waters had flowed by.
The business of the* Court of 'Chancery had lately been in
'' most admired.diserder." file tientlemen there did mot know
frequently what was coming on. islOthisig was more common
than the business to.. come on, which was not at. all expected.
A case frequently obtained, a partial hearing up to that hour
when the Noble Lord et theheadof the Conn Went forth., The
subject would then be dropped, and ..not taken up again till
after a very considerable peripti had elapsed. This caused the
'former hearing to be lost, and it became, necessary to begin
again. Such cases were not singular. Every Gentleman con-
nected with the,Court of Chancery
,knew thenito be of com-
mon occurrence, and lie would prove them so to a Committee.
(Hear, hear !)—An Honourable and Learned Gentleman had
cheered him, but he would, prove: what he hail stated, and if
the Committee.were granted,iie should wish to call that Hon.
and Learned Gentleman as the fineewitnees. Much of the con-
. fusion now prevailing in the Court of Chancery he tracedeo the
-eoneration of • the Vice-Chancellor's Bill. From collision ,
which this occasioned amongst the learned Gentlemen, engag-
ed in the Chancery Court, it bad become difficult to procure
e their attendance in either Court. The measure to which he
Aied alluded, hall induced them to make arrangements which,
if the Act against combinations, of journeymen extended to
their trade, would, he was inclined to think, have sent some
of them to Navigate.. To "sheaf the effect of the Vice-Chan-
cellor's Bill he would attic, what the business before :tine Court
had been. in 11113, and what it was at present. In 1013 there
were 141 causes for ,the Court—the, " Exceptions and fur.
,„
ther Directions" were 01, _the " Pleas and Demurrers" 16,
the " Re-hearings and appeals" 41.. At the end, of nine years
from the passing, of that Bill, in every instance but • one, the
arrear of business had been increased ; and in that one, which
was the smallest in 1)944 of number, there 'was only one
gained. The causes to betried before the Lord Chancellor up
to the Hilary Term in 1822 were 161; being an increase of 20.
• The_ number under the next head, that'of Exceptions and of
Further Directions;" amounted in 1022 to 141. These it would
be seen had been much more than doubled. The Pleas and
'lDertiurrers were IS. This was one under the number of Pleas
:and demurrers which were 'eti be disposed of in 1013. The
lte-hearings and Appeals uP to the end of' 1017 had increased
from forty-one to sixty and upwards. lie could state, that
the Re-hearings and Appeal's at the present time amounted
to 35, being within 6 of what they were at the time of the ap-
pointment of a Viee.Chancellor. He now came to speak of
the business disposed of by the Loid Chancellor. Front a Re-
turn which was , on their table, it appeared that of 161 appeals
stated to have bun disposed of, and which it had been assumed
had been disposed of by transacting' the business of them, lie
found that eighty:area had, been struck out, so that credit
aught only to be taken. for severity-four, as it was only
on these that the Lord Chancellor had transacted' business.—
The Vice-Cliancillor's Bill had .hiade a desperate ,innovation
on the Court of • Chancery„, only to produce double delay and.
double distress,. Tergt game no longer appeared on the patter
of the Lord Clialieellore•taitilVerit handtd over as ,a matter• of
course to the 'Vice:Chancellor- Alike -course was taken with
cases of Exceptions and forther Directions," and' the same
• was With " Pleingand Deniurfers."- - The 'business of the Lord
chancellor, which used to comprehend these beads, " Causes"
Exceptioin and further Directiona"—." Pleas and Demur.
rers"—" l'etitione"—" Alotions"--find " Appeals," had now,
been curtailed, so that it only embraced the last three. The
number of causes'actuelly decided, by the Lord Chancellor from
1610 to the end of 1821, wake but 19, being not quite five in
• each year. With reapeettninotkiniiani declined hazarding any
assertion, as if he suited these to be short, -and to have-taken
up little time, lie expected to be nett with the assertion that
• they were of great weight, In the last ten years, to Hilary
Term 1022, it annearel that the Vice.Chaticellor, to whom. so
much of the
business of the Lord Chancellor had been. trims:
ferred, -heti disposed of 14409 modems, while the number of
' motions disposed of by the Prd Chancellor, 'who_ hid been
so much relieved from other' business, wait 5,155. This ap,.
peered from:the paper's on-thattable. ,Ile would now proceed
to state some instances of, delay, and of the consequences
of delay. Each of the cafes 16 which he would refer had
-been furnished by„one.'single 'officer, anti they were vouched
for by the doeuinents Vihidt'he leeld• in his hand. • Some of
them were established by allidivilts' and one by the bill of
,costs. He might have ()e'en' stile to go further,. but soli-
citors who had' cases.. pending were, afraid of fiirnishing in-
'formation which it was in `their power to give.--( Hear, hoar !)
lie meant innit'distincily 'to state; that in more than one in-
stance the apprehensitinkof Solicitors had oppoged:his inqui-
ries. Was this,thOuglirquile,thirtictilOus, when the power of
the Noble Lord,tt,thq,head of the Chancery Court was tom&
'tiered, anti whsal any 00,,t40ut h. he did it in the most respect-
ful manner, lb* tnoli.the part which lie (Mr. Wile
:limns) was •wily Was' likely-not to be soon forgotten,
though lie gtiVO tins Noblt Lorderedir fig every good quality ?
• When he -then in the discharge of 'his duty eels not fear--
• (Hear, heat !)—for he was Vitt d
• night follaW, but,when be felt it likely that some notice woul
tbe,taken of what .he was doing, was it strange that Solicitors

who had causes pendlng. shinfld be afraid• of making diselo-J
sures P .This conduct on 'the, part of Solicitors furnished him
with an additional reason for confining .his statement to
what he had received fram;Dne.single,quarter. first case,
to which he would-advert wee that of Brown versus Dd Taste,.
A. bill had been tiled for an; accoutit,and a decree made there-
on by the Master of the'Rolls. This was in 1812, and an Ap-
peal against the Decree-was made in dui! same year. It came.
before the Lord Chancellor late in 1821. - Other consequences
flowed from the delay: The report made by the Master was
appealed against to the Vice-Chancellor. This came on to be
heard in 1816, he thought.- The • Report- of the Master was
probably obtained at an expence not less than pllOl., which was
as uselessly expended as if the money- bad been east from the
window of that House into the Thames. Exceptions were
made to the Report, and on these the Report was set aside by
the Vice-Chancellor ; then catrfe the appeal from the Vice-
Chancellor to the Lord-Chancellor. From the time of filing the
bill, the Solicitor became entitled to term Item of 1/. Is. lid.—
To these he was entitled so long as% it remained in Chancery,
which was probably as long arc the parties lived; for Iludibras
had truly said there was .
" While the rocket will hold out -
" NO end of the iinnwrtal suit."

Every Solicitor engaged in the cause, and there were fre-
quently many, claimed 10s. Bd. every time the case appeared
on the paper. From the time of a partial hearing, on every
occasion when the case was brought forward, the Clerk in
Court and the Solicitor were entitled,, he believed, to 1/. be.
tween them. Six shillings andeight pence went to the Clerk,
whose good works in the cause were as unknown to the suitors
as good works of another description ought to be generally.
In the case which he hail mentioned Term fees were going on
in IEII3, 181.4,1815, 1016, 1817, 1818). and 1819. In January,
1819, die case got on :to .the. paper, anti there it remained
through that year, through 1620, and to the 22d December,
1821. The amount charged for the attendances during this
time amounted to 4201. Nor . was this all the expence incur-
red, for,the Learned Gentleman engaged in the cause claimed
refreshments to sustain them through so long a journey ; but
,the poor 'suitor found nothing to refresh him in the course of
hisdreary way, not one bright spot, not a single Oasis cheered
his sight as he wandered through the desert. The next case to
whichhe shouldinvite the attention of the House was that of
Oldham and Cooke. A. bill was filed in 1815 to claim money
which had been left. It was answered in 1016, anti it was ad-
mitted that 1,2001. had been so left. The answer was unsatis-
factory, and was in consequence excepted to. The House
would remark, the only point in.euestion was, whether or not
the answer was correct. It had been kept open year after
year, and still remained undecided, though 04 attendances had
been had on this most intricate and knotty point. He noticed
the (case of Whitchurch and 'Oldworthy, to shew that if the
proceedings in Equity were unsatisfactory, they were not
less so where Law and Equity were combined. In this case
a bill was filed in 1811, to restrain the Lord of the Manor
'from cutting down'timber: An injunctionsissued, and a spe-
cial case was sent to the Court.. of King's Bench. In Mt
the answer was received, and the certificate .sent home.—
The case remained four years on the Registrar's book with.
out getting to the paper at all. In 1820, it got to the Vice-
Chancellor, was then sent back to the Lord Chancellor, and
there, after many attendances, it now remained, undecided.
In the case of Fillingham and Bromley, a Bill had been filed
before the Vice-Chancellor, and an appeal made to the Lord
Chancellor, who lied expressed his opinion in favour of the
defendant, but had declined deciding upon it, and left it to
take the ordinary course. In consequence of this it had re.
mained through 1819, 1820, 1821, and 1022, without at single
step being taken of any sort or kind .to forward it. The case of
Powell v. Serjeant and otters he next noticed. This had been
delayed in a similar way with much expence to the parties...."
In the case of Ware and Hall the parties had been accommo-
dated, as was usual in Chancery, with a second suit, one not
being enough. The Lord,Chancellor had made a dec.eee in the
case in 1821;- this decree was objected to, on the ground that it
had beed surreptitiously obtained to the exclusion of one of
the parties who was entitled to a hearing. The features of this
ease he communicated to the House by reading the affidavit of
the Solicitor, which complained of the cause having been .re-
moved from the head of the paper, and of the consequent delay.
Upon this subject the deponent had written to the Lord Chan-
cellor, complaining of the hardships to which his clients were
subjected by their cause not remaining at the head of the
paper. It was two years and a half since the cause got to
the top of the paper; and great injury had been sustained by
its removal. The letter went on—" It is painful to my feel-
ings' to state, that I have it front authority which I cannot
doubt, that the infant on whose behalf this suit was instituted
twenty years ago, died of a broken heart, in consequence of
being kept out of the property." On receiving this letter
the affidavit stated the Lord Chancellor to have re-placed the
cause at the top of the paper, and to haves requested the
attendance of the deponent in his private room to draw
up a minute of the decree, no other person attending... The
honourable Gentlemen next read an ..official copy of. the
bill of costs in this case, remarking, that lie had been
stating the case; not Of the , party complaining of the stir-
reptinous decree but of the party 'hewing cause against it.
The bill charged for writing a long letter to • the Lord Chan-
. iVhich letter had 'been read from the affidavit, 9/. 95.;
" for Attendance in Court when ordered by the Lord Chancellor,
13s. '4d.; for attendance when he was spoken to by the Lord
Chancellor, the Clerkund the Solicitor, 21. This it should be
observed, was 11. for each cause. The same Solicitor in Chan-
cery could conduct two causes at once; and in some cases,
while acting for the plaintiff, 'Could also act for the defendant.
The celebrated Dowling, in the novel, complained of the neces-
sity of that personal identity which precluded him under the law
of nature from appearing in, four places at once, where his at.
tendance was required. The more fortunate equity Solicitor con.
trived to effect that which the Attorney Dowling could not, and
succeeded in multiplying his person In the way described. Ile
then read several items charged for the second suit, each of
which was folloWed by alike charge for the original cause.—,
One attendance which was charged for would seem mint-
cubes. The hens ran thus :—" To attendance on the Lord
Chancellor, in his 'private room, when his Lordship begged
for further indulgence till to-morrow.—(A laugh.)---After
reading the remainder of the Bill, which consisted of numerous
repetitions of similar charges, the ,Hon. and Learned Member
said the House would permit him to conclude his remarks
upon that Bill by saying that the charges for attendance in.
eluded in it amounted to 1,0301. and upwards." . As to the fact
of a Solicitor obtaining a decree in his favour in his Lordship's
private room, without the preience of a'second Solicitor on be-
half of the other party, he would say nothing. Neither would
he Inquire what must have been the feelings of that Learned
and Noble Magistrate, the first Magistrate in the Law, and
the first man in the land, when he received a letter of such a
description from a Solicitor, and afterwards entreated delay,
anti became a suitor and an orator in his own Court. lie
would say not one word more upon this subject; it was in
the knowledge of the House, and he should leave it to every
Gentleman's consideration. . He would now allude 'to other
Courts, with • the exception of the ViceeChancellor's, which
were to be comddered es the legitimate vents for the accumula-
don of,business ,in the Court of Chancery. It had been truly
observed by a late Noble Maiquis (Lord Londonderry), that
the only 'Court which could be considered as a Court of
Equity at Westminster, was the Cotirt•of Exchequer. Now,
what was the state of business in that Court? The Chief
Baron,, and he begged it to be understood that he mentioned
this as a miafortune, had for a considerable time been in a state
of illness which prevented his attention to business. His: duty
it was to sit apart horn the other Judges of the Court, for the
purpose of hearing cases in equity. Ile was, therefore, suc-
ceeded in the'diseliarge of that duty by a learned person, of'
whom, hi (Mr. Williams)-teas ready to toy every thingethat was
handsonie. But it was known that Baron Graham had arrived
at a very advanced period Of life ; lie had been informed that
he was eighty-otie years of age; The' next in succession was
Baron narrow., Of whom it certainly might be said that hie
forte did lay in settling an equity suit. The other was an
Honourable and Learned Friend of his, if he might still call
him iio, who, every One in the profession would allow, could
not be employed in any department Of the Court without
advantage he meant Mr. Baron BullOCk..--(Hear, hear
that Learned Judge was. fresh in the Court, and could
not Well be placed over the heads of his tried seniors. The
next Court was that of the Maiitee of the Rolls; and he had
been told by practitioners et that, bar; that not one-tburth,
some said not one-tenth, of OW, Pumber of cases disposed
of in the time of Sir W.`tirant werellow heard. Having men-
tioned Sir W. Grunt, he would, say that amongst his other trans-
&Went qualities and properties he had set an example which
would be well followed by the other Judges of the land—he re-
tired with all his Honours fresh and blooming about him, when
no mite in the kingdom suspected any declension in his powers,
except hiniself.—(Cheers.)—:Upon all these grounds he called
upon the House to hear the opinion* of men of sound practice
' and Information delivered before a.Commi use, and then let them
legislate if necessary, ' Let thenvnot do its they did before—lee
oleoe first, and investigate and complain afterwards. Then,
VMS another point upon w,bich he ahould ask the further etten.
don of the House, and that was upon the subject of Scotch
Appeals. It appeared from the list upon the table, that from
WU down to 1023, two hundred and ninety-one- Scotch Ap-
peals had been heard. Of these one hundred and forty-five had
been ' affirmed, sixty-two reversed, eighty remitted to the
Cairn; below for alteration,' and two altered. So that with the
exception of one, the number ‘reversed, remitted, and altered,
wakequal to that of the decisions. 'This was not the case with
the English Appeals, and- he was convinced that a proportion
of one-fifth might be referable, not to the constitution of the
Courts, but to die manner in which they were filled up. If he
was to be opposed by the statement that there were already
proieedinge neganin the House of Lords, and that it would be

prudent to wait anti' judge of the wisdom of any measures -which
might be there adopted., he should say that the same thing was
said of the Vice-Chancellor's Bill in 1813, When that measure
came to the House the Hon. and Learned Member for Durham.
protested against it, and the Right Hon. Secretary for Foreign
.Affitirs attacked it with all the weight of his argument,'
and with as Much wit and humour as might be supposed
enough to explode any measure. The Right Hon. Gentleman
pointed out with ,prophetic anticipation what had previously
followed from its enactment. And he would take the liberty
to say, that the speech to which he alluded shewed what a
man of talent could do, which were not of every day's occur-
rence to his attention. A late Hon. and Learned Friend of his,
as well as the present Vice-Chancellor himself, argued strongly
against the measure. Yet all these arguments were disregarded,
the House legislated, and it legislated that it might legislate
again. If they were now again to legislate, let them have the
necessary information first, and let it be taken before a Com-
, naittee. Before, they fell prescribing, let them first see what
Was the disease, or whether there was any disease at all.—
Whatevettlecision the House might come to, he should feel
the satisfaction of having done his duty, and at the same time
with having avoided all personality that could be avoided; yet
not abstaining from making those statements which had come
to his knowledge and possession.—.(Cheers.)—The Hon. and
Learned Gentleman concluded by moving, ". That a Select
Committee be appointed to inquire into the increase of business
in the Court of Chancery, and in the appellant jurisdiction of
the House of Lords, and the causes thereof."
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, that the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman had commenced his speech by stating,
that 'although he should look, at the changes which had taken
niece in the Courts of Equity, he did not mean to attack the
character of any of the Learned Judges. Yet it had been seen
that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman did rest his case upon
an attack On the Noble and Learned Personage at the head of
the profeasion. The ground of the motion consisted in an as-
sumption that it had been admitted in another place that the
arrears of business in the Court of Chancery required attention.
Now he had heard no such thing as that which the I-lon. and
Learned Gentleman had assumed. He had heard indeed that
the arrears of Scotch Appeal; to' the House of Lords had
so increased, as to require a remedy, and that it was to
he made' matter of inquiry lot their Lordships. But that
there was any increased arrear of business in that Court he
would deny and should be able to convince the. Honourable
and Learned Getleman himself that he had been misinformed
and mistaken. He admitted that there was an increase of busi-
ness in the Court, but that resulted from the increased papule-
don and wealth of the country, and not from any hesitation to
decide on the part of the Noble and Learned Lord. At the
time the Vice-Chancellor's Court was created, he could chew
that there was an accumulation of' arrears of business, which,
since that period,, had been relieved. But the case of his Hon.
and Learned Frind went to the abolition of the Vice-Chancel-
lor's Court, and to the removairof the Noble and Learned Lord.
This was his case, and therefore it reqUired no inquiry. With
regard to the cases which his Hon. and Learned Friend had
.brought forward, he knew from what office they were procured,
and knew that the information was not in his possession at
the time he gave his notice of motion. ' And he must say that
some notice ought to have been- given' of the attacks which
had been made, and sent forth to the public, against the Judger;
whose names hall been Introduced.-Hear, hear 6—They had
not been limited to the Court of Chancery, but to the Judges
of other Courts at 'Westminster, and amongst the rest one Judge
had been attacked for his age—(hear, _ hear !)—and he believed
that the age of that respectable and Learned Judge had never
prevented his attention to business for a day.—( Hear, hear !)
He did think that when such attacks were intended some notice
ought to be given to the parties, in order that they might meet
them with a defence. In his Honourable and Learned Friend's
statement of what business the Lord Chancellor had done, he
had entirely left out the hearing of lunatic petitions. In the
course of 10 years Lord Mansfield heard four hundred and
eighty-four lunatic. petitions ;. and the number heard by_ the
present Lord Chancellor, since the institution of the Vice.
Chancellor's Court, being the same period of time, was 2,450.
.It appeared from the Hon; and Learned Gentleman's state-
ment, that that Noble and Learned Person only heard a few
ilppeals and exceptions.. Every .one acquainted with lunatic
petitions, knew that they were not-mere matters of course, but
that some of them, as recent experience had shewn, involved
points of the greatest nicety, and required the greatest discus-
sten, Then the lion. and Learned Gentleman had also failed
to say a word of the Bankruptcy Petitions. If the House would
allow him, he would call their attention to a statement of the
number of Bankrupt Petitions decided by the Lord Chancellor
and Vice-Chancellor within the last three years.
In 1920 1 . •
By the Lord Chancellor - 1311
By the Vice-Chancellor . . - - . 366
In 1821—.
By the Lord Chancellor - 103
By the .Viee-chancellor • - 440
.1n 1823,, up to Easter Term...,
By the Lord Chatittiller •
By the Vice-Chancellor .- , 465
And the total number heard by these 'two Judges from 1813
down to the present period, was 5820. Ibis Hon. and Learned
cause carried before the Vice.
Friend ,stated, that every
Chancellor was heard twice over; but that was not the case
with even the Majority of' such causes. With respect to the
difference which appeared in the number of Bankrupt 'peti-
tions heard by the Lord Chancellor and the Vice-Chancellor,
there were many causes which went before the former which
occupied a long time in hearing; such, for instance, as in the
case of Howard and Gibbs. 1 herefore they must not look to
the numerical difference as a erittrion of the' exertion made.
If appeals were made from the Vice-Chancellor's decisions, the
sanie happened with regard to' the Mager of the Rolls, and the
number of such appeals accounted for 'the few that were carried
to the House of Lords. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman
here alluded to an observation which fell frOm Mr. Bmugham,
as to the appeals to the House of Lords being made to the
same person. His Hon. and Learned Friend did not mean to
contend that such. an ;arrang!Ment 'was improper ?—(Hear !
from Mr. Brougham.)--ataU events that was not a Matter
within the scope of the present niotion
Mr. BROCOIIAM complained of an obseriation being
made upon private remarks.—(Cries of Order.)
The AT'T'ORNEY-GENERAL said, that it was at least as
irregular for Members to make 'such remarks aloud.—(Cheers.)
—His Honourable and 'Learned Friend kept up a runnin
commentary upon his statement, which necessarily prevented
his answering the other statement with any order. But as this
subject had been glanced at, he would just. say that a case had
recently occurred where a decision made by Sir Wm. Grant,
and confirmed by the Lord Chancellor, had been sent , back
by' the House of Lords. He would now state the quantity
of business • done by the Vice-Chancellor since the creation of
that Court, No less than 2,832 causes had been heard. Was
it to be said that this was no relief to the suitor ? Besides
these, there had been heard 1,350 exceptions,' 475 pleas and
demurrers, 2,907 petitions, and 10,509 motions. In that period
there had been 4,400 cause petitions heard bythe Lord Chan-
cellor, which his Hon, and Learned Friend had not alluded to,
besides the lunatic 'petitions, which he had already noticed as
having been left out. He was satified the House would not
think that the Lord Chancellor bad been idle, when they heard
that upon the average of the last 'ten years, he had' annually
disposed of 150 bankruptcy petitions, 250 lunatic petitions,
580 motions, 450- cause petitions, and 47 causes and ap-
peals. It should be borne in mind also that many of those
motions decided causes. .He trusted that this statement would
satisfy the House that the increased business done since the
Institution of She Vice-Chancellor's Court, was such as to
afford great: relief to the suitor. The House would be our-
prised to heir 'of the increaee'riMidnese *bleb had taken place
of late years, And Whit Hod: Friend had shoWn that the ar-
rears_ were nearly double what, they. were at the institution of'
the new Court, still his esgemeuts would not be supported
because the increased quantity, of business would account
for it. In the year 1800 the number of bills filed was 1445;
in 1805, 1531 ; in 1810, 1793 ; itt the last year, 2489 ; and in the
present year, as far as could betnade out, 1030. With regard
to the cases which his Hon. and Learned Friend had brought
• forward, the first was that of Brown and De Tastet, in which the
complaint was that in the Master's office the expenses amounted
to SOO/. But it was not stated that the Master's Report fixed
Mr. De Tastet with 03,0001. Butt at all events, how was the
account of the Master to be made matter Of "'accusation
.
against. the Lord Chancellor? Another case was that of
Oldham and Cooke; and his Honourable and Learned Friend
not being well acquainted with the practice of 'that Court,
seemed to treat an exception to 'an answer as nothing at all.—
• But if he would take the trouble of
spending two or three
hours in reading the Master's report on that case, he would
find it less trifling than he expeetetl. With regard to the next
case of Fillingham and Bromley, that was said to be a common
case of injunctions But those who , heard the case argued
knew: that it involved the nicest point's of law. It referred to
the right of the Lord of the Manor to cut down timber on
the lands held by hit copyhoid tenants. It was only on the
paper a few months, anti tberefela the delay was the fault of'
the parties not bringing it into Court. His Hon. and Learned
Friend had next produced'the case of' Ware and Hall, and he
had read a bill and stated facts which must have made a great
impression upon the ,House, and which at the time made a great
impression upon hirn.' But he had since found that the bill
was taxed and the-charges.not,alloWed. Much stress had been
laid upon the repetition of the-charges for the original charges.
But every professional Gentleman knew that if a Solicitor at
an Assize had 'six' cross causes M the same matter, his attend-
ance would 'be charged- for'- each of them.' His lion. and
Learned Friend had said. that the charge for attendances was
upwards of 1,0001. Now, what would be the surprise of the
House to learn that the charge was little more than 1004

(Cheers.)—The whole bill for conducting the suit, after it was '
taxed, and the disallowed charges struck off, amounted to 3611.
lie then came to the charges against the Noble and Learned
Personage who presided in the Court. .And he did think that
some intimation ought to have been givenliefore such an attack
had been made. It was insinuated, that a decree had been
given eureptitiously in private, favourable to one party pre-
sent, and behind the back of the other. This was the first
time that he hid ever heard the honour and integrity of that
Noble and Learned Lord called in question.—(Cheers.)—He
had never yet heard that be was suspected of acting at the
suggestion of any private application.—(Cheering.)—And as
for this charge, it was well known that all such cases were
afterwards argued publicly. His Hon. and Learned Friend
also said that Solicitors were afraid of coming forward with
charges while they had suits in Court. But were there no Soli-
citors who bad had cases decided ? And were there any corn-
plaints made in any other quarter except that in which his Hon.
and Learned Friend bad acquired his information. He did feel
that these things ought to have been examined into before they
had been brought forward, and he had no doubt but that his
Hon. and Learned Friend would have found them all as correct
as his statement about the charge for attendances--(Hear !)
The Hon. Gentleman had attacked the Court of Exchequer
merely because the Chief Baron had withdrawn himself for a
short period in consequence of illness. This was an unmerited
attack not only on the Chief Baron, but Baron Wood. Then
it was said the Barons Garrow and Hullock were not Equity
Lawyers. It was the custom to have two Common and two
Equity Lawyers, and certainly there was no irregularity in
that respect. The fact was, the Court of Exchequer had been
as open as any other Court. Was a temporary illness to be
considered sufficient to induce a Judge to retire ? If it
was there could be no calculation of the time any Judge
could remain on the Bench. The Master of the Rolls had
also been ill, but his illness had occasioned no arrear of
business. With respect to Scotch Appeals, they were heard
as satisfactory. as, could be expected. Scotland never was
in a situation in which their Appeals were heard with more
advantage to the suitors. From that country Appeals of
every description came before the House of I.ortb. That
was a misfortune, inasinush as it prevented the attendance of
the Lord Chancellor in the Court of Chancery: That sub-
ject was under' consideration ili-the House, of Lords. i and he
had no bouht, a remedy would be applied. The attack oh the
Vice-Chancellor's Court was not supported by the facts. The
business had increased since the. establishment of that Court;,
but the dispatch of business in that Court was almoit pro=.
verbial. His Hon.' and Learned Friend had not made out a
case for a Committee. No case had been brought forward of
delay in the Court of Chancery, and seeing upon the returns
that no arrear of causes beyond what might be reasonably ex-
pected, he objected tp the potion as unnecessary.
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR isaitthe: was aware that the hour at
-which they debated the ',question was late, but still it was a
question worthy the attention of Gentlemen. He was not,
howeier, to be deterred by the lateness of the hour from
saying there never was s. case more deserving of the con-
sideration Of the House .than the motion of his Honourable
and Learned Friend. With respect to the eminent person
who presided in the poUrt of Chancery, there could be
but one opinion on the subject of his talents and amiable man-
ners; but lie was free to state his opinion whether that Learned
Judge did exercise the functions of his Court with advantage
to the public. Ile moved this very question in 1011. .111 r.
Percival opposed it, and it was carried against him. He was
told he must not censure agreat and illustrious individual, and
he lost the motion by ninety votes. Ile was told that Lord
Eldon hinted to the Government that if his question was car-
ried the Noble and Learned Lord would hold the Seals no
longer.—(A laugh.)—He thought, notwithstanding that fact,
that the inquiry might be carried on without censuring the Lord
Chancellor. In Lord Londonderry's time he lost a motion
on the subject by a small. majority. He was told at the same
time he must not be surprised; the Lord Chancellor was
the head of the Government, -and if he gave up the seals there
would be an end of the Administration. He mentioned this to
thew the Colossus they had, to 'contend with. No man could
deny that delays had occtitred in the Court of Chancery. The
came of Brewn a. De Tastet Was put in the paper of the Court
of' Chancery in 1012, and it-was not out until 1821. Did any
man get out of the Court of Chancery without delay and ex-
pence ? It was the universal execration of every man who got
into that Court that he was ruined. Was not that ground forinquiry ?
There were causes in that ('Dort had stood
t
30 years, which might have been decided in 20 days. There
was no mode of. getting, out of that Court but by death or in-
fancy. With respect to the Vice-Chancellor's Court, suitors
(t:oteyu ricoaunld incurred
ttlhdeoGubteleatexKpeneerceer.
of the
rtto
whole difficulty in the Committee of the House of Lords was
saii went
tferonl C
he whetherou
Sea in that House and get rid of Scotch appeals. 'l'hose ap
peas had not increased inure than in 1811. The evil had
not
ceased, and it was clear the delays in the Court of Chancery
required amendment. In Lord Ilardwicke's time as many
bills' were filed within a litindred as at present time..—.
Inquiry was prosed at that time, and why should it not
take place at the present day. . question embraced the
interest of one:third of the property of the country. A
person who had a property of 20001., at Islington got. into
Chancery, anti for his 2,0001. be got no more than 700/. The
suitors in that Court were robbed. What could a man
get by a lawsuit of fourteen years ? That Court was de-
structive and useless ; every man in England- looked upon it
with horror, as a nuisance. The other day he proposed refe-
rence in a cause, the party applied to said, " No, I will not
agree to reference, and if you do not consent to my terms, I'll
bang you up for twenty years in the Court of Chancery."__
Here 111 r. Taylor called for the candle to read_ a case.. The
circumstance occasioned some mirth. He exclaimed what is
sport to some is death to others. Mr. Taylor read the process
of a Chancery suit, in which a person who resisted extortion
was kept in a state of suspense for many years. The Hon.
Member concluded by voting for the motion.
Mr. DENAIAN said this was an important subject, and as
many Hon. Members could throw light on it, he should move as
an amendment "that further debate be adjourned to this day."
The House then divided on the amendment.
For the adjournment - 69
Against it _ _ - • - 120

Majority - -—6 l
On our re-admission into the Gallery, we found
Mr. G. BENNET moving that the debate be adjourned
until Friday.
The House immediately divided, when there aPre('
For the Motion - - - -
Against it__ t. - - - - 133

Majority . . . . - —B4
We understand a motion was then made to adjourn the de-
bate for six months. On our re-admission we found
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR addressing the House on this motion.
He complained that the case which had been made out was not
answered. The Noble and Learned Lord at the head of the
Court of Chancery was to trust his defence to an adjournment
of six months. Had he been the most bitter enemy of that
Nobleman, he could not think .of a better course to destroy
his fame than this.--(Clieers from the Opposition.)—However,
all that he wished to the opposers of the case was, that they
might beconie suitors of the Court.
Mr. T. COURTENAI said, the Lord Chancellor. was de-
sirous that the subject should haie the fullest discussion.—
( Hear, hear !)—He (Mr. C.) was ready to go on, but he recom-
mended an adjournment until this day. _

The motion was then withdrawn, and the debste was ad-
journed until this day.—Adjourned at HALF-PAST ONE.
A LIST OF 'rHE -.MINORITY •
ON Mks AIWIEROMBY'S MOTION,
Respecting the Conduit and Pioceedinks of,the Lord AAvcr-
eate of Scotland towards -31 r. W. M. Borthwick•
Abereromby,lln.J. Glenoschy, B,amiden J. Ct.
Allen, J. 11. Grant, J. P. Rice, T. 'S.
Althorp, Viset. :.Grattan, J. Ricardo, D.
Barnard, Viscount Griffith,. J. W. Bickford, Wrn.
Barrett, S. M. (huge, Sir W. Ridley, Sir .31. W.
&nett, .1. Gordon, Lion. R. Roberts, A. W.
Bennet, Hon. H. G. Hob4otse, J. C. Robinson, Sir G.
Bentmck, Lord W. Mime, J. Russell, Lord J.
Bernal, Ral, - Hurst, R. Searlett J.
Brougham, Henryllp Hutchinson, lion. Scott, J.
Browne, Dom. C. H. Sefton, Earl of
Byng, George.. Hotham, Lord Smith, J.
Brownlow, C. Lambton, J. G. Smith, Hon. R.
Barry, Rt.Hn..-.1.31. Lennard, T. B. Smith, W.
Calcraft, Leycester, Ralph Stanley, Lord
Calvert, N. Lushington, S. Stewart, W. (Ty.)
Carter, John Maberly, W. L. Stewart, Sir John
Cavendish, Ld. G. Wlntosh, Sir J. Sikes D.
Cavendish, H. blarj9ribanlts, S. Talbot, R. W.
Chamberlayne, W. Martin, J. Taylor, M. A.
Chaloner, Robert Milbank, M. Tierney, Rt. Hn.G.
Crompton, Sam. Milton, Viscount Titchfield, Marq.
Cradoek, S. Monek, J. B. Townshend, Ld. C.
Daly, J. Moore, Peter Webbe, E.
Davies, T. hlaxwell, J. W. Whitbread, S. C.
Denison, W. J. Newport, Sir J. 'White. Colonel
Denman, 'rhos. Normanby, Visct. Whitmore, NV. W.
Duncspnon, Viset. O'Callaghan, J. Williams, J.
Ebrington, Viet. Ord, Wm. Williams, W.
Ellice, Ed. ' Palmer,' C. F. Wood, Alderman.
Evans, William Pelham, lion.C.A.
Fergusson, Sir 11. C; Pelham, .J. C. TELLERS.
Folkestone, Viact. Phillips, (1. sen. Hamilton, Lord A.
Forde, M. Poritz; W. S. Kennedy, T. F.
The, name of 'the Hon. C.llf. Hutchinson was by mistake
omitted in the Minority on Lord A. Hamilton's Motion.
Mr. C. F. Palmer voted with Sti J. Mackintosh on the Mo,
don relative to the Critninal Law.

PARIS PAPERS.

TELEGRAPHIC DISPATCH,

" PARIS, JUNE 3.
" On the 30th of May, which was St. Ferdi-
nand's day, his Royal Highness reviewed the
troops, which produced a great sensation in
the inhabitants of Madrid : the Grandees of
Spain presented to his Royal Highness an address
of adherence and felicitation." /

The unofficial part of the Moniteur of Tuesday
announces that the Regency has appointed a Mi-
nistry, and that the army of Mina is pursued
without intermission, and is dispersing (se clebande)
every day.

(From the Constitutionttel.)
AUGSBURG, MAY . —We learn from Seres,
that from the 18th of April to the 30th, Turkish
troops passed every day through that town, march-
ing upon the Morea.

Letters frdm the same town, of the 3d instant,
state, that the Greeks of the Island of Thasos had
attacked and completely defeated a Turkish di-
vision proceeding along the coast towards Sa-
lonica. It is also stated, that at that period the
citadel of Larissa had fallen into the hands of
the Greeks.

Letters from Bucharest state, that 500 houses
had been destroyed by a fire which lately broke
out there. Almost all of them belonged to Jews;
hitatOlild'an ss theTLlo utrklksBl,ltoahviS n%'il w t m
l.he fire originated.
instant.,lacrqs was still in the
Coron and MOdon.
PARIS, JUNE 2.—Besides the official intelli-
gence from the army, published daily by the
Ilioniteur, the political and fanatical Journals
also publish private accounts which do not
always agree with each other. Thus, for in-
stance, the Drapeau Blanc scarcely ever has any
intelligence except what tends to the supposition
that•the Spaniards wish for the ancient regime
entire, whilst the Journal des D6bats is nearly as
exclusive in insinuating that the Peninsula must
have not the Constitution of the Cortes hut
a
Constitution which will leave to the people, at
least in appearance,, the exercise of some rights.
The Journal der &bats repeated .yesterday
the intelligence published by the Etoile the pre,
vious evening, and of which we have given an
extract, relative to the unexpected appearance
of Mina under the *ails of \rich. " Our troops,"
it is said, " received' the charges of infantry and
cavalry with intrepidity."--It seems to us very
extraordinary that there should be charges of
infantry, and especially of cavalry, against a
place the walls of which are to be scaled. To
give credit to such details we request permission
to wait for information less strange and more
official.
For two or three days there has been a talk of
the recall of M. Cape d'lstria to St. Petersburgh.
The Nuremberg Correipondent contains, under
,the head Hanseatic Towns, the following ar-
ticle :—" A merchant of Liege, who has arrived
at 'frankfort froM Madrid, which capital ho
quitted the 17th April, has purchased, at a very
moderate price, of" a' commercial house at Frank-
fort, several' thousand muskets which that house
had bought on speculation. These muskets are
to, be sent to a Spanish or Portuguese port."

_ . •
".FnANKFORT, MAY 20.—The quantities of
to aid
traordinay expellees of a costly war.
money feq(uPteßFilifl.fi'sn:CllC:l;:ile-EIIIISIIP°hi.Nean4I3IIEcaNCIIC.tIE.O)P; Paris
Pyrenees,
hyer reeensc, I,ihave raTreasury,
ised and
go l
ti contribute
he reto baentyoeo
the
xntdr
teohxr
dinar,- price.. More is drawn from hence than
froth all the places in the interior of Germany.-
Shice the journey of a Russian courier from Paris,
and the private.accounts brought to the English.
Legation at Frankfort, extraordinary reports,.
have been circulated as to the embarrassments:
experienced by the French armies in the interior
of Spaliii and particularly by the corps of Mar-
shal Moncey in Catalonia. These accounts, what-
ever may be their source, and whether their cor-
rectness be more or less disputed, far from injur-
ing our speculators in foreign funds, have, on the
contrary, 'served to produce a remarkable rise.—
The more the contest becomes difficult and ex-
pensive, the shorter it is thought'will be its dura-
tion. This opinion explains the rise in Spanish
paper at the same- time with that of the French
rentes—a circumstance which at first sight ap-
pears inexplicable."
PARIS, Jura 2.—From the system adopted by
the Spanish Generals, has resulted an extreme
confidence in our troops, and in movements so
haiardous under other circumstances, that they
stand in need of justification.
We have left to secure our line of operations
from the Bidassoa to the Ebro, to keep down
IsTivarre,•Guipuscoa,Biscay, and Alava, only two
divisions, commanded by the Prince de Hohen-
lobe, and these two'ilivisions have still to besiege
or at least observe St. Sebastian and Pompeian',
having 6or 7,000 men in:garrison. The corps of
General Molitor, reppeeting. which we have not
for tome time had• Any new.details, forms an aI my
altogether deiocl44, Ow division of which is .
marching upon , the southern frontiers of Cata.
lonia, occupies the banks. of the Cinca, menaces
the little
.fort, Of MOBZOII,an4 also Lerida, before
which Harcourt and. Conde were checked, whilst
another division
.is doubtless at Saragossa, and
watching. the debeisches of the kingdom of Va.
lencia, which serve for the retreat of Ballasteros.
It will be seen that .net only this corps d'armee
can. receive no succours from that of the Prince
de Holientohe, but that his two divisions of in-
fantry catmint aid each other.

Our march upon Madrid has been fine and
rapid, but directed under the conviction that.
there would be no enemies to combat ; for, were
it otherwise, in what danger would ba the divi•
sion of General Obert, who is marching in a dif-
ficult country, and exposed on its flanks by the
army of Ballasteros ?

A single division remains between the Ebro
and the Duero; here, however, it is an open
country, and our cavalry niay effect much with
newly, raised troops, such as are found in great
numbers: in the Constitutional army.
It will be seen that if the object of the enemy's
Generali .Were to divide us, by yielding the
ground, they haie completely succeeded ; but if
the entry into Madrid, and the proclamation of
the Prince Generalissimo; do not terminate the

W.••