The Sun.
London, England, 1847-04-23 00:00:00

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Worthy of the Noble Lord, worthy of the name he bears,
and he believed that the career of the Noble Lord would
be yet the brightest illustration of that name.
Sir JOHN PAKINGTON desired to offer his thanks
to the Noble Lcrd (J. Russell) for his course upon
the present question, and to tender hita his support.
There was no part of the Hon. Baronet's speech tha he
dissented from so much as that portion which allege d
that the Government plan had been triumpliant;y re-
futed. So far from agreeing in this opinion, he thought
that the case of the Government had been most clearly
and conclusively maintained. Why had the speeches of
the Hon. Members for Finsbury. and Durham been so
feeble ? Why, but because that they had no system of
their own to propose—no scheme or plan on which to
proceed. He considered the opening speech of the No-
ble Lord at the head of the Government had anticipated
every objection, and completely made out the necessity
of the proposed grant. Fortified, as that speech
had been by the able speeches of the Right
Honourable Member for Edinburgh, and the Right
Hon. Baronet the Home Secretary, little remained for
him to say. He would only refer to one point. It was
that which proposed to leave out certain Dissenters from
participating in the grant. He could not agree with that
exclusion. As a member of the Church of England. and
also as a member of the National Society, he wished to deal
with the subject before them in a charitable spirit.
There were several most important institutions in the
country which would not be eligible for the grant. He
might instance one of the most valuable establish-
ments in the country, at which the children of the
Churchmen and the Dissenters met together, and
were educated, in the most harmonious manner. No
difficulty whatever had ever arisen on account of
religion. The establishment to which he referred %.• as
King Edward's Grammar School at Birmingham. The
Hon. Member then read an extract from the rules under
which the school was managed.—The following was a
statement of the children of the different persuasions in
that school:—

Church of England 798
Independents
Wesleyans
Baptists
Socinians
Lady Huntingdon's 8
Jews 4
Roman Catholics 4
Swedenborgians
Calvinists 1
Quakers
This: large school was conducted in this harmonious
manner. He confessed that he wished most earnestly
that he could confine the schools in such a manner as to
give religious education to the children, in accordance
with the principles of the Church of England ; but,
whatever might be his own private opinion on the sub-
ject, he must allow some weight to the principles and
opinions of the other great sects and parties throughout
the country.—(Hear, hear.) He thought the ar
guments of her Majesty's Government, in bringing
forward this measure, perfectly conclusive, and he
hoped that the attention of Government would be
shortly turned to the condition of the labourer, and to
the sanatory condition of the people of this country. He
must confess, however, that he was to some extent dis-
appointed, because her Majesty's Government had not
proceeded in a more comprehensive manner than they
had done upon these subjects.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUME was anxious to say a few words upon this
subject, as he mu,t say that from promises and pledges
given by the Noble Lord the Member for the city of
London to his constituency he did expect to have seen a
plan more comprehensive than that introduced upon the
present occasion. The Noble Lord stated in the com-
mencement of the present session that he was prepared
with a mere extended plan of general education, and he
was quite surprised that at the present time, when a vote .
of 700,000/. was taken for the army alone that
the paltry sum of 100,0002 only should be required
to carry out the plan of the Government with respect
to the education of the country. He thought that
the people of England were willing to bear
a much larger sum for that purpose.—(Hear, hear.)
The Hon Member for Edinburgh (Hr. Macaulay) had
made a most eloquent, and a most forcible speech upon
the subject, and the arguments brought forward in that
seeech were in his opinion perfectly unanswerable, and
be most cordially agreed with the Right Hon. Gentle.
man in considering the present state of education in
Scotland as resulting from the improved and general
system of education which prevailed in that country.—
(Hear, hear.) The system of establishing schools in
every parish of Scotland was a most desireable and effi-
cient one, and one which he should be most happy to see
carried out in this country. He quite agreed with the
conduct of the Prussian Government, in prosecuting the
education of the people, he believe with the Right Hon.
Gentleman the Member for Edinburgh, that it was the
duty of every Government to do its utmost to
promote the education of the people, and he regretted
to hear any Hon. Member in that House say that it was
not the duty of the Government to endeavour to edu-
cate the people. He really thought that that was one of
the first, if not the first, duties of the State. He could
not reconcile the statement of the Hon. Member for
Derby, that the people of Scotland could most of them
write a good letter, and yet he went on to say that the
people were little better than " barbarians." He would
dismiss the subject from his mind, and hurl back the
charge thus made upon his country, by saying that the
statements of the Hon. Member were perfectly incon-
sistent and irreconcileable. The Hon. Member then
proceeded to contrast the state of education in Prussia
and the United States, where a system of State edu-
cation prevailed, with the state of education
in this country, where there did not exist
any general system of Government education.
The result of the analysis of crime in England fur the
last three years, showed that there was a decrease of 32
per cent, in the countries where the people were best
educated. Mr. Neeson, who made out these tables, made
it evident that wherever there was crime there also was
ignorance, and the complete absence of the means of
education. To show that Mr. Laing never intended to
say that education did no good, he would refer to the ob-
servations he made in favour of the penny postage, of
which he was an anxious supporter. Ile agreed with
Mr. Laing that every measure ought to be sanctioned
which even indirectly promoted education. He was told
by the Noble Lord at the head of the Government, and
the Noble Lord at the head of the Woods and Forests,
that they were beset with difficulties in this measure,
and that they deplored they could cot carry out a more
extensive system of education. He maintained that it
was the right of every ono to have education, and it was
not a matter of toleration. A Catholic or a Dis-
senter was as good a man as a member of the
Church of Eglano, and had as good a claim
to the advantage of State education. He
did not assent to the character of moral courage which
was so generally given to the Noble Lord.—(Hear,
hear.) On this question the Noble Lord displayed the
greatest cowardice. He was afraid to take the course
which his judgment approved, and sculked in the most
shameful manner from the adoption of the right course.
Ile was going to answer the grounds on which Mr. Baines
proceeded in his opposition to the education scheme, but he
would not allude to Lhem now. His own opinion was, that
the dissenters and the members of the Church of England
ought to be put into the same boat and sent across the
channel. Ile thought an effort should be made to unite
all classes, and he did not doubt, judging from the
evidence they had from Holland and from Ireland, that
this was practicable. He thought if her Majesty's
Government agreed to appoint a Committee to enquire
what each party wanted, that means could be
devised for this purpose. They adopted such
a pro :reeding with regard to the navigation-laws,
the poor-laws, and other questions, and he did
not doubt, but if this were done with regard to educa-
tion, a mode would be pointed out to reconcile all differ.
ences. When Holland was under subjection to France,
at the time of the French revolution, an attempt was
made by France to give education combined with reli-
gion to the people of Holland, and this attempt was met
by the ministers of the various creeds in a spirit of
good will. The consequence was ;that the clergymen
of the different persuasions and the schoolmaster—each
in their respective sphere—carried out the intentions
of the Government. The next case he had to bring
before them to show the practicability of combining a
religious and secular education, was the national system
of education adopted in Ireland, and he would refer to
the 9th report of the National Board, to show the per-
fect success which had attended their efforts. He
attributed much of the crime which existed in this
country to the religious differences which prevailed; and
those who fomented them could not lay their hands
on their hearts and say, that they were doing their duty
to God and man; and if crime could be repressed by
education, as he thought it might in a great degree, it
would be cheaply purchased at 500,000/. a-year, instead
of 100,0001., or at almost any cost. He considered that
the state of things in this country required a greater
and more comprehensive measure than the one
proposed, and if' the Committee sought were granted he
should be able to prove that a truly national system of
education might be carried out without any of the
evils which appeared to be involved in the Government
plan. He also considered that there ought to be a
Minister of Instruction in this country, assisted by a
board of persons selected from the most competent in
the community, to whom the task of superintending the
education of the people should be intrusted. It was on
these grounds that he felt it his duty to vote for the
amendment of his Hon. Friend.
Sir W. JAMES said he should support the plan of the
Gcoomveerneft.,.because he considered that the time had
when it was the incumbent duty of the State to
promote the education of thee people by every means in
its power. If they wanted
that
of this necessity, it
was to be found in the fact tout of every 100 of the
population, only from 30 to uld read, and that
1,000,000 or 800,000 of the children, and wereeflt3he poor were re-
ceiving no education at all
r oeua
rgehdt up
to rapine, as it were, as a profession. eilt
was in
him that a great proportion of the public feer
favour of the plan. Looking at the state
Church, of the different dissenting denominations,tethe
there was as large a mass of public
in favour of it as was ever given in support of any other
public tneasure which had of late years engaged the at-
tention of that House. The Hon. Gentleman the Mem-
bet. for Montrose was the only one in that House, who
had advocated a compulsory system of education ; but
he did not agree with him, as he considered that the
plan of aiding the voluntary efforts of benevolent indi-
viduals was the best that could be adopted, and that a
compulsory system was foreign to the habits of the
people of this country.—(Hear, hear.) But where a
school was required in a district, such as a colliery
district, where there were no benevolent persons to
aid it by voluntary contributiens, he thought that
the state should step forward and provide the necessary
funds.—(Hear, hear.) He was strongly opposed to a
secular system of education, as he considered that reli-
gion was an important part of education ; yet he be-
lieved it to contain more of good than evil ; and, there-
fore, he would not deny that mode of education to those
of his fellow-countrymen who were in favour of it,