The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-09 00:00:00

MORNEN,T(-- ErITTION

cor a
.3,11 pats into a law. Ho said, that, wirer. the hay t,,
set
mei-vest came about, the labourers might combine. a ''_ to
aei farmers d, tience. Now, !lq 111,1 i iisk the 1100"0,
'ook eta hat had taken place. Had acre been iitl ries%
.iiration of the agricultural habourers same tie
that
Poor-law had bee% enecte ? He emphatieelly ss'nr, of
to re had not. !le woula tyke no credit fair the sae,lieg.bat
noney welch had been effected, for he frankly avow
,t was but a secondary coneideretiom The regeriert.,old
the poor was what too originators of the Bill hadji übcia
et, and he was quite aura, theogli tho lades ha" ba,o
doubled, the gentlemen of Eneland would no.
.0,,
grudged it, bad the character of the poor be, n raiten,
the degredetion in which the old law had eteer-d ti
ie test
Ho (Mr F. M.) held it to be next to irnpossila
et be,
they could now abandon the new system. He did n eon
lieve that there was any Membar in the House, inn eoa
the Hon. Member for Finsbury himself, who would a .
0
eiche
urge them to go back to the old system. That brgt
tablished, the question was could they carry out 15
new systera without the aid of central '
rnanagernent.no,,d
his opinion, it was impossible. The original Bill was fouile,.
not upon the opinions of the Commissioners thelnse'tioo
hut upon their opinimis founded upon an exateirts is
~
into, and approval of, the management of the re'riesa
certain parishes, a bleb the were anxious should he° t
into effect throughout England. He did not intend els,
to draw any comparisons between gaols and workileie:o
but he could not avoid drawing the attention of the rtetieo
to the beneficial results which had cowed from thesYsetb
of central management, which had been adopted
regard to the 1 risons of Scotland. All partleestlese.)
give their hearty approbation to that systern.-1,, the
They only warted central management "°',,,eoal
puipoee having a similarity of management throe jade
the country. Already great improvements had been
pace
In lac management of the Poor-laws: but still there nas
wide field left for the beneficial operation of the Cenaeedi
sioners. A great per of the country was still untolle
coo
and without the central management, they would hresea
system in one part o: the country, pulling
tern established in another part. He would now °ramps.
the question of expense, and, for the purpose of eci°ll ate
rison, he would take that year 1834, the year We'c„eisr
Hon. Member for Maidstone stated there Warn ifet-eeir
OireIIMSVIIICC° tat dia; to reduce the rates. In tut" 'ted
the amount levied for the purposes of the poor ateeafour
to 6 300.0001., while in Is4o the sum was reduced %opts
aid a half nallions, showing a savingof nearly twntnli; the
against tae
el
10
effected upon the simple administration of relief t that
poor ; and he was ready at the same time to maintain pas
0.10
sgoi ;given
isi nfa
cTr-ty.
as Thethe
the sum given in bona fide relief was greater the 00t
resultpecuniary oth e rr
getf
greatly tended to raise the character of the wotkingen,:a are
even to a point he had scarcely expected them to bays
rived at in this country. Suppose the Poor'-lew the
result, blot wheavderscee
mission were to be at an end, and thatroi of
Boards of Guardians were to assume the sole ene,te.esisa
unions under their charge. He would ask what L" eaae
that would have upon the conduct of union officers, wt of
controb•,4l
appointment and dismissal is now under the
the Commissioner. It had been made a freeneetistirkals
of attack that they had not used those powers wita' -rser
ency in many cases, but he could only say that wr.'th-tee
the Commissioners had been made acquainted wittioad
misconduct of any union officer, they had invariahlY °re eio-
- strict examination into the facts, and they had eitilcnot 10
missed the officer or shorn the public that he "'a' ode'
fault. Last year the Commissioners hid dirnissed scri, of
five• officers, besides having accepted the teilgeat'°They
many others who found their dismissal ineviteble. gilt
had also taken care to inquire into every complaint h`l'i.,,el
before them. Ile thought that if, on the other old
left all control in the hands of the guardians, they were
be unwilling to dismiss officers whatever eci-
they might have committed, as these offieers won'a !or
bobby be with them objects of partiality. Theeel)&ll''
of supervision, which was placed in the hands ofe!"-„.
missioners, by which they might diseileirge onucc.,-,1 the
pointed by the guareims, was, in his opinion, °eta ifeta,
greetest advantages of the whole system. But the t
Member who had last addressed the House stated °old'
boards of guardians were left to themselves, 'her` wire.
be no fear that they would at em pt t fall into the abyss'
of the old system. Ile ( Mr. Mettle) had made seratiessa
quiry on that subject of the Poor. law Comnii6'i° isrs•
and no one could sty that they had any reason to tog
present the facts--'put they gay t him to understanutme-
so far from there being no apprehension that h°l:reelf
guardians would return to the old system, there vva°,,e,badl
one abuse of that system which some board or &not( hsa,
not applied for permission to adopt Some of thedmeer:,
asked permission to give relief as ivies, others he .cat',"
geited the pro, iety of granting out-door relief tone en-their.
dent paupers, and ethers had taken certain ladies undr, „ff•
protection, who had saddle d the parish with illegailelielret4
spring, and those boards begged they niiels' are i"I
to leave those women to go at large, while their ot"i'rAl
were to he maintained at the expense of the told'parish
these propositions beenniade, arid let thcY'"ref tligts
that the Boards would be guided by the priocire
a-mended law if lett to the exercise of their own discr";b4tl
The House sheulii also remember all the oblogaY 'hap's°,
been heaped on the Commissioners, of which
had borne tie bruit, no matt, r abet e ere the gr.c.ad
complained of, or by whom they wee committed ; n
would ask them tviietber they would find a Board of samee
deans whe would not shrink foam encouoterieg the to oft
abuse and misrepresentation cast on thorn, from oat' FearJa.
the year to the other, far the pains they had taken in geeede"
ing the iuterests of the union over which they Pred-lefea*
It had often occurred that the Commissioners ir rd teseror,
tile acts of guardians, and take on themselves the eeri tese,
sibility which the others refused to bsar. Ile he:iev' ,ther
if nitres of the Boards were consulted, they would eff 10,
abandon their duties altogether, then be deptive",-,
advice arid guidance of the Cenimissioners. t"eit'eols
away with the central authority, they would soon aciaealar
evils sring up again which had before been conspia,i,ert
end the result would be that they would find it neet'beres.
to appoint a new body to suppress them. He was' peace.
fore, of opinion that it was much better, until the pad
law was established on such a firm basis that theer's ic,aele,
be no doubt as to the uniformity of practice whiee.t 000
prevail, to continue the central supervision as that:
existed. He did not care about the time for wh'aet the
authority was to be prolonged, for that did not 6',e-
t o°4.
principle of the measure. All he asked was, t;-iosat
House should adopt the main features of the .13'llieutlr
which he considered the establishment of a centra'i",e
rity as the most essential. He would not, then, lea bo:
allusion to the attacks of which the Coanoissioarr-siteo
;seen the objects. lit would abstain from all rap ivies
that could only lead to personal recrimination. °Jeri's.
his anxious wish that they should preserve the °I a thei
e
tion which the nature of the question required; a "s.
world thus have a better chance of arriving e° somas
the,
measure, which, while it maintained the princieliceiovite
Act would t.nd to the benefit of the public, are uteri
the cliarecter of the iabourieg classes in this eeroteei
and veoull at the same tine afford the poor that Paoli a
tion and that relief which he Was sure it was the.,:ieperr
every Englishman to extend to those whom he found
dent on him,—( Hear, hear.) ohset.
Sir E. KNATCHB lifer, visited to make a for fie eat`e
vations on the measure then before the suse. eerta-
tirely agreed in the opinion that the most inireeer•
clauses of the Bill would be ()tat discussed in Colero-eiiir
He would, however, confess at that stage, that, in '`)J as
over the clauses of the Bel, there were many he eea°,oeat
agree to. Ha had hope d, that when the Goiter /
were introducing a measure for the amendment %pee
Poor-law, their efforts would nut have been solelYe°,,,s/i
to giving additional powers to the Commisinelasely
(Hear, hear.) He had certainly expected that
w the
on off
.•
known feeling which prevailed te c
rough the .tae3 '
would have induced hem to introduce some nteesee-te'", '-
relaxation into the system. He looked upon the
of out-door relief as one of con.iderahle, if not r,
importance. He admitted that it would be 1-10'i'e'FarrAg
relief should be given iii aid of wage. : but at t°Soan
time he should ray, that where they' usable
parties without any fault, if they we"' but it'd-
to receive any wages whatevor, it would bc
to invest the Commissioners with the power ofge- 'ter;
out-door relief to suet) parties if they should thine rrolera
11, would refer to cactimstarices that had takerai
within the last six weLks in the union of Aslifor";sels'
which he was himself coeneeted. Ali knew the
c.
mimey of the preeeet winter; itimppecied )het
qu nee of that. inel:m tics, several pia it persoes
polled to epply fur out-door relief io the union the
The case was so grievous, and the pressure se urge!. e
the Beard of Guardians. at ail tones reluctant to
door relief cons. rated to grent it ; and aftereardet "ifset
0
pliance with the Act sif Parliarrielit, reported the peed
the Commissioners, .11,. held in his hand the replY,eode
was given by those tunetiooe.ies. le it they remoi'erreealet
that before el-awing outaloor relief the guardianeb .
emleavour to wiccrtato the urgency of the claire eiymal; •••
)
receiving the head of thy. familt into the sv°ra'eetil"
It appeared, Lowever,
t° him (Sir Edward Kaate/J 00
that such a rite:, tscui ibe most harsh that it the it
cruel to take a falter into a workhouse, and ale faier
mother and children in the meantime to ern'A''—ce '
themselves. There had been ahead evi-61
y ample eeote,
the case in question toet the parties were really "11,3.0%
an they had been deprived of the oppertunitY °` f the
•
re course to au kind of work by the severity °code
sea her. The Commissiocers afterwards reale ik at '-
that the heads of families should be required teh—ileeet
task-work. But they Lad no such work at whic'k sere
.
ploy them. They next recommended that taji, we"e"
:
should, if necessary, be found for them out of t"" 005"
house, but he believed it was equally imr'sible'arti's VI
•
Bering the severity of the weather, to pus the Pea n red:
such svm k. These families heel not since
lave
keyed, and he knew not how they had
unless it were by the charity of their neighbth-c-os twat
thought that a provision might be made for se, of ,‘
in the amended Act. lie hoped that suegestieneie set r ),
kind ooulil be attended to by the Government. h' ,‘)
neceasjefeeet;
say one word on the Central Board, the
which he admitted, in order to carry the law jet,ctioioeero
He certainly thought that the prayer of the Conle, opal,
should be prolonged. but there might be differee`,--eeraieeg
as to the time to white!' its continua, ce night bee thoug‘l
His Right Hon. Friend near him (Sir R. l'aele,),
that a period of five years would be thn„,'-tereabo;
visible extent, while lie (Sir Edward l'f'afaciee;
aas of opinion that three years would he bo peoch-e
He thought that, a, far as management went' t 0 butt-e,
should be left in the hands of the Commissioneer eon' a -
would residue. the powers of legislation as far as pits. ,
s:1-•uld for the second reading of the dill, pit
tee hope of making the necessary alterations in ce, teat tbs
Lord II() WILK was one of those who believed tbe
Act of 1834 had been one of the most ben° coren3ja;
had ever been brought for Nerd, and that the et shit
sioner who had rectonmended and the GovernMe"the gra"
bad the courage to carry it were both entitled tniitioat!:
titude their country. Entertaiting tlaese gebe oigaa
he confessed that he had heard the debate ef t _ of 0,
with great satisfaction, for after the denunciationasiustoesa
cruelty of the New Poor-Law, which had heri head bee°
month .after month and year after year, Whici. sjpsner:i
rep: stied by the press, and in speeches efts cub je
. tne reis
anal at meeangs, where they came fairly to discuss
nrer
werineessese_
in the House of Commons. Ilefere those who
to defend that measure they could not defend that
1,1, of OP
they c,ull nut find one sinele individual en either I"

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