The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-17 00:00:00

He was content to support top measures of the No ble Lord
(Lord J. Russell), because he believed he would a Lot tuts
tail in this emergency, but do his best to promote the welfare.
of Ireland. The late Government, and those who sti,pporVl
that Government, professed themselves anxious to befri'es:
Ireland, but the Noble Lord at the head of the Go vermeil;
had proposed and expressed himself des; rows to carry °I.
others in a similar spirit. There were upwards of a mill's,
horses in this country who were fed with corn,
but he saw
reason why these horses, but more especially th ose connected
with the army, should not be put on a smaller allt;wance. if
this were done three millions of people would have fotht foe
seven or eight months of the year. Many iraldvlnth
tations had b• en cast on the characters of
landlords during the debate, but many of them were spec
immense sums of money, with the view of providing food foe
the people. He read a letter front a gentleman in the Qtieli
county, stating that the resident gentleman and others n„
come forward in a princely manner to relieve their set:feral
countrymen, and that the owners of the soil, who were in that
part absentees, had contributed but a trifling portion of that
sum. He was well acquainted with Ireland, and his ell
perience led him to form he opinion that a more sztrinile.t.
poor-law was required, which would throw the support of tV:
poor upon the owners of the sell and others, who were
conditioi, to pay their quota• towards their support of r,
t
poor. He felt proud, as an Englishman, at tri
noble exertions which had been made in England for the- xei►jei
of the distress in Ireland. To show that the Irish are e",
workers, and could not only rely, when supplied with IT °Pe
work, on their own exertions, but aid their relatives at ItoTal;
he read a :ettei from a gentleman in New York, stating'
during a short period—since November last—the label/ rot
Irish of that city had remitted to their relatives in this cost ittrl
6.50,000 dollars, or 130,000/. ste:ling. It was an exei ,
period, but they must not allow that excitement to preft
their free and calm judgment. He could not support the pry
position of the Noble Lord.
Sir J, WALSH had been an attentive obsertre.r °.ff
these debates, and had gath,,red from the speeithers
Irish Members of all parties, and from all parts of 11'08
that the Irish people looked upon the measure in a kind!!
spirit, and that it would do much to relieve their sufferiWf„
He thought that in the course of the present debate Mop
the arguments of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chance
of the Exchequer had been entirely demolished. All ttie
objections be had urged against the measure had been CO:
~
pletely disposed of. But before going into the merles (0;1;0
question, he (Sir J. Walsh) would remark that it Seoul alto
be the general impression that the potato crop was n of ervei
destroyed, but that there existed no probability of its
perpetuated. He regretted to hear this, and hoped that A,°bg
would not be the ease ; for he could not agree with the itige,
Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the at 011:f
would eventually result to the benefit and improvement
Ireland. However much he might admire the for re Ts,
spirit of the Right Honourable Gentleman's a'
he could not agree with him in the opinions he had exp W't;
on this subject. Ile was quite persuaded that if the
.psis
crop was permanently destroyed, there would be the greater
e
suffering and distress, and that it would be perfectly impost,
for the poorer class of occupiers to maintain their positiotti".
the country. A great deal had also been said respecti4:
poor. law for Ireland, but he felt sure that if such a poorer/
was carried into effect as many advocated, the whole capitsa!°;
the country would be swallowed up. The property of ';',l
country would be borne down by the burden, while the Ois,'
farmers would themselves be the greatest sufferers. et.g& e
the cultivation of the waste lands had been recommended slo
panacea. Now he was firmly persuaded that this scheme.",
one of the wildest imaginable, and would prove itself anythll
but adequate for the evils of Ireland. The reclamation;
waste lands required two things—time and capital—wheriee.
the condition of Ireland wanted prompt and active mineo
Emigration had also been referred te, and he muchrr
gretted that the. Government had net brought forward a en„,
!,
prehensive scheme as an auxiliary to the other meson
they had introduced for the benefit of Ireland. He knee
one noble proprietor who had an agent in Canada to sew,
all parties who arrived in the colony from his osi&eis
in Ireland, and assisted them in locating themselves U 1,1;
colony The emigrants, in consequence, found themse"si
among friends as soon as they got there. Such a cyst 01_1
colonisation might be extended under the direction and c en:Tt
of the Government, —( Hear.) With regard to the pees!r6
measure, he believed it would awaken the latent energies et%
country, and therefore it had his most cordial support. Pei
would not speak of its advantages in opening up mines
wealth, in accommodating the fishing on the west of Irelst
ois
or in carrying fuel and other produce all over to
country ; but he would say that they would be meets,
blame if they neglected to introduce into Ireland one of the
greatest means of improvement and human elevation ever 1 0
,1
vented by the genius of man.—(llear, hear.) He had rro Tie
sire to go into the details of the question after the very' ,4
speech of the Hon Member for Shrewseury, but still he sig.
follow, anti pick up some facts which he had left untouchen
In doing so, he could not do better than to refer to a report
Sir John Macniel, the eminent engineer, made to age 5h,,a",..
fielders of the Great Southern and Western Railway in 'le
tember, 1845. ( The Hon. Member here read an extract fr.n,„
the report in question, stating that, for a considera"_"‘
time, there had been a great number of laboottrai
employed under him, and that every one was satisfied the
conducted themselves in the most exemplary manner; had.
been unskilled labourers, and that throughout the district
through which the line passed there was no one unemployed')
By another report made by the same engineer in the 111101. c,
following, it apeared that there were 25,000 labourers ell
ployed, all Irishmen, in the district, and the same benefied
results were in operation. Another objection which he haauria
urged by the Chancellor of the Exchequer was, that it wo
be an injustice to other railways. The Chancellor of the LA
chequer read a letter from a correspondent of his, and roil
all his correspondents appeared to be anonymous, stating 1:,,e
it would be an act of madness on the part of the Govenalse74
to encourage all the railways projected in Ireland. It was (PI,
clear that railways already established gained enormously 14450
extension of the railway system, and hecould mention rnanf
in which railways would be benefited by the formation of 02
waY°
lines. Neither could it be said that the English r*" In
would be injured by this measure, for many of the
lines would be immense gainers by the extension ref the g
rate
way system in Ireland. His Right Hon. Friend h,itd
et,' he
that private enterprise ought to carry out these railways,
was willing to admit that the carrying out of these imil3e„,
undertakings by private enterprise was a great proof of LO.
healthy andciveised state of the country. But his Right Hod.
Friend might push his argument tco far, and say that these
railways ought not to be carried out by any other means.
That was not so. Let them look at the Russian railway from
Petersburgh to Odessa, which was carried out by the Govern-
ment, and no one could deny that that line would be of Im-
mense benefit to the country; and similar circumstances existed
in France. He could mention many other instances, but hi'
was not willing to occupy the time of the House 101
entering upon them at present. The objection of the Noble
Lord was chiefly a financial one, but he thought that it was ant
objection which must really rest upon the urgency of the necer
city. The Noble Lord had also said that English funds wou 141,
not bear this great call upon it, and there could be no argurneerf
adduced on the subject which was less founded upon fact. lI
they could convince the House that the advance was necesettrYo'
could any man doubt the capability of the English nation to
furnish this comparatively trifling sum ? He did not and
stand the Government to object to the advance itself, but only
to the security for repayment. Let them see if the railwayy>a
Ireland would give a proper security for the payment. It itr
peered from an extract from the railway returns, that theme
were four railways in operation in Ireland—the Dublin and Kingstown, the Ulster Railway, the Dublin and
Drogheda, and the Great Southern and Western'
The Dublin and Kingstown paid 9 per cent. ; the Vete
Railway paid s'. lea per cent. on the share capital ii
the t)ublin and Drogheda paid 31. 14s. on the share capital,'
although not completed ; and the Great Northern and Wes"
tern, which was only opened since August last, paid ',IAA"
per week, and, deducting 4001. per week for working el‘i
penses, that would give 31,2001. per annum: The length O'
the line was 56 miles, and if that, according to the Nohla,
Lord, were to cost 16,000/. per mile. that would eV
904,000!. The two-thirds of that wo.ild equal 602,000/.,
arid the interest at three and a half per cent. would be
21,093/. ; and so they would have a revenue of 31,0001. as &
security for 21,000/. per unsure Was not that a proper see , •
curity for the money to be advanced? And let them remenee
ber that the last railway was only open a few months,
very imperectly developed. He felt himself forced to give
his vote for his Noble Friend, for the measure was one calce-;
hated above all others to give relief to the present distresses* "
Ireland.
Mr. V. STEWART said, that whatever might be his'
opinion on this measure, he trusted that the Noble Lord would
not consider him lees grateful than he should be for what be
(the Noble Lord) had already done for Ireland. He thought
that on such a measure, involving so large a sum as 16,000,000! s
brought forward by the Noble Lord, and not by a responsible .
Government, sufficient argument had not been adduced to war-
rant its adoption. Ho thought that the Noble Lord deserved
the greatest credit for bringing such a measure before the
country, but he thought that the Noble Lord ought only to
have tendered it to the Government, and not do as he was then
doing, force it upon their consideration. He had not made up
his mind,
,however, that while his country was suffering as is
then was from famine, this measure was the one which the
House could hest adopt to alleviate its miseries. The railways
must certainly give general employment to the people on three
miles on each side of their course, but even with that admis-
sion, there would be large portions of the country which would
not be benefited by it. Although he was quite aware that
everybody must be anxious to benefit Ireland, still they must
necessarily place the Government in a state of greater difficulty
by encumbering them with the raising of a loan of 16,000,000/.
That was the moment for any one to step forward, and not
interfere by forcing them to adopt measures which a responsible
Government would not sanction. He wished to say nothing
against the formation of railways in Ireland. If they could be
formed by the Government, he thought they would be of great
advantage to the country, for he had taken a great part in the
Limerick Railway ; and if the Government would give that
assistance, he felt it would be of great benefit, but then the
counties ought to reader what aid they could in carrying out
this design.
Sir H. W. BARRON had never felt greater pain in giving
a vote than on the present occasion, but he fe t so complicated
by his public and by his private engagements, that he could
not bring his mind or his conscience to vote against the promo-
tion of railways in Ireland. Let him not be misunder-
ssltiogohdt,estforintheerestheldin nroatilwaaye,singbluet shyaerte,
hoer
whasad
eetnhe •
vinced that there was no plan which would beeso likely to
promote the interests of that country as the formation of rail-
ways. Last year he had been one of a deputation, who waited
upon the Right lion. Baronet opposite (Sir Robert Peel), at
which the Duke of Leinster was the head, to put this measure
before the Government of that day. In 1839 he had given
vote which was at that time perfectly in coincidence with the
views of the Secretary for Ireland; now •at the head of the
Woods and Forests. He had then advocated the views which,
he now held, and they were embodied in the three points which
he had submitted to the Government. These three points were
shortly as follows, and he regretted that the Noble Lord at the
head of the Government was not in his place. He had:thenstatei
that in Ireland they had no resources, no capital, no machi-
nery for the formation of railways in Ireland. But in Eng-
land precisely the contrary was the fact, and in following the •
Noble Lord in those views he felt that it was right. Now his
principle was this, that if it was right in 1839 to promote
the formation of railways in Ireland, it was still more right to
do so now. He did not pledge himself to the 16,000,0001•,
but if the principle were right, then the details were of
secondary consequence—( Cries of "No, no.") He might be
wrong, but if he understood Parliamentary usage aright, it was
that in giving a vote for any measure on the second reading.
he was only committing himself to the principle of the
measure and not to the details of the plan.—(Hear, hear.)
The second portion of the plan was to promote the railways
themselves; and the third course was to advance money for the
formation of these several railways, and be conscientiously
believed that not a shilling would be lost. He would
refer to a petition which he had presented in 1839, and he ,
might say that he should be inconsistent if he did not vote now
for that which had been the object of his desire, in 1847. That
petition was headed by the Duke of Leinster, followed by
the Marquis of Bedford, Earl Mountcashel, and other equally
influential men in that country. This petition stated that rail-
roads were the best means which could possibly be adopted forth°
improvement of Ireland. He had ly!en reminded that the
present Chancellor of the Exchequer was not Chancellor then,
he would not, therefore, quote that gentleman's opinion, but
he WOUI I quote the opinion stated by the Hon. Member for
Montrose (Mr. Hume), and that was, that railroads in Ireland
was the only cure fir the evil, and he hoped that his vote would
this night be in accordance with his speech in 180.