The Sun.
London, England, 1847-05-01 00:00:00

rate then in:the union of Clonmel, for three months, was
estimated at 8,340/., and it would yield, if paid, 8,9751. In
adopting that calcuietion for the rating of all the unions,
he found that tee gross amount would be 4,752,0001.
This was to be raised fee. soup kitchens. What would
the poor-law come to ? Ave riseing the rate a' 4s. 61.
in the pound, the !teal cast iif %eat •tieor :lief n 111 U
' amount to 7,000,0001. Seven imilesns er melte).- I Why.
it atneunteit to the whole gross rental oi Ira land. 'They
had arrived at this state of things that the measure
would be impracticable in itself, unless rendered effec
five by other large and cernareher,ive measures. Did
the Government think that these 620,000/. :veal !atisorli
the surplus labour of Ireland ? Or did they think thst
Irish Members would rest satisfied with it ?—(Laughter
and cheers.) It was a lamentable proof of the state of
feeling in that House, that when Irish gentlemen rose to
place the distressed condition of their country before !
the House, they were met by invidious cheering ;
620,0001. were to be granted to the Great Southern and
Western Railway. He was not in any way connected
with that, company, but he was assured that this mode
of laying out their money would be productive of the
best results. He would just read to the House the
weekly return of traffic made up to the last week. The
House would remember that the line was only corn-
pleted for fifty-six miles and a-half of its length, aid
that in its route it embraced no commercial tewns, or
any manufacturing district., for as yet it only connected
Dublin and Carlow. He found, however, that the traffic
for the last week was 1,588/. He regretted that when
the Noble Lord the Member for Lynn brought torwerd
his railway measure in the early part of the session,
that the Noble Lord at the head of the Government al-
lowed party pride to influence him in his opposition to it.
The whole remedy seemed to amount to this, and it was
feared that the whole of the tenaat fanners were likely to
be eaten up, and the process seemed to be very likely to
be semi finished—(Laughter)—and to some it appeared
that this was a circumstance devoutly to be wished.—
(Hear, hear.) But what would become of the country
when it was overloaded with this Government debt. As
he understood, there was a rate now to be collected of a
pound in the pound, and he had heard from an authority
on which he could depend, but whose name he was un-
willing to mention, that a rate of 13s. in the pound had
been levied, when a rate of tenpence could not be col-
lected—(cleer, hear.) Why, what man with a good ac-
count at his banker's, would ever think of drawing out
his resources for the sake of purchasing Irish property.
For his own part, he thought that there would be very
few. He had never been a party, either in the House
or out of it, to the cry against the present Government,
or to swelling the clamour on the other side of the water,
and unwilling as he was to connect himself with any
party in the State, he would give his earnest support
to the Noble Lord, if the Government were willing to
look this Irish difficulty in the face. He would honestly
and heartily render his support. The country had
hitherto been governed by the Protestant Irish aristo-
cracy, but that system could no longer be supported, and
they must turn to the democracy if they wished to im-
prove it. For his own part, he believed that the only re-
medy was to be found in a separate legislation. although
he was one of the last to say that Ireland could exist
without the assistance of England, for, unless that as-
sistance was held out, he believed that Ireland might as
well be sunk to the bottom of the sea. But yet, although
he was no advocate for the severance of the countries,
the only remedy, in his opinion, was in the institution of
a domestic legislation.—(Cheers.)
Mr. SPOONER regretted that the Hon. Member who
had just sat down, had started with the assurance that
he would keep to the point, when he had spoken upon
every subject hut the one which was immediately before
the House. The Hon. Gentleman had complained that the
whole of the present pressure was owing to the course
which the Batik of England had pursued in the manage-
ment of their capital, and great reference had been made
to the loan of the 8,000,0001., as if that had been any
particular element in the suffering which had been en-
dured of late by all the commercial classes. But what
was the case ? Why, the Batik, in the granting of their
last charter, had been expressly charged to keep to their
banking business, and were told that the issues could
only be made in a particular manner. On this point
they were expressly restricted. Well, they had keet to
their banking business, they had not attempted to inter-
fere with the circulation. The two departments were
entirely separate, and in his opinion the directors had
acted wisely. They had not overstepped the terms of
their charter, and they found that they had an abund-
ance of money in their coffers, and they had not hesitated
to cash the good commercial paper which was proffered
for their acceptance. They had conferred a great 'meek
on the whole of the community, and had only acted as
every other banker would have done. But gold went
out of the country, and the specie in the hands of
the Bank was reduced. The pressure ensued, but with
that the Bank had nothing to do ; but now, when the
exchanges were in our favour, when the balance of
trade had turned, then there was a great outcry raised
respecting the conduct of the Bank. Let them look to
the balance of trade, and they would see that although
so much gold had gone out of the country, the influx et
corn now would have to be paid for in goods.—(Hear,
hear.) The Hon. Member had alluded to the conduct of
the Emperor of Russia, who, according to common re-
port, had bought 2,000,0001. in the British funds, and
he had represented it as an act of great magnanimity on
his part, asserting that it was likely to improve the state
of the British funds. The Emperor of Russia had' just
in the same way come to the assistance of the Bank of
France. But was that an act of magnanimity ? They
all knew his character, and that ambition formed a
striking feature in it, and must therefore be assured that
some other object than,that of merely assisting the Bank of
England had actuated him, even if this remark were true.
He would not insinuate improper motives to that foreign
power, but the Emperor of Russia might have an inte-
rest in securing the subserviency of France or of Prussia,
through the medium of his great despotic influence ; not
so much with a view of attaining any great advantage
in either of these two countries, as to gain him some in
fluence over England. The Emperor of Russia, it was
quite evident, could never hope to obtain any influence in
this country through his great military On ces ; but he
might do so by manceuvering with the finances of
Europe ; and it was evident from the Emperor's
recent acts, that his policy was directed to the at-
tainment of that end. The Act of 1819 and
1844 must be got rid of before this country could
prosper, or avert such an evil as the one he had just
ventured to suggest. Already they were witnessing some
of the bad effects of those measures, and unless the
House took some precautionary so ps to avert it, the y
would inflict a still severer blow upen the country. The
Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth, it. was
true, had supported those measures with a good deal of
plausibility, and had asked them for a definition of the
term pound, and used other specious arguments to in-
duce the House to pass his Currency Brills, but still he
(Mr. Spooner) wanted to know if the House was pre-
pared to continue a system which had always led, by
easy and regular steps, to periodical depression in th e
money and commercial interest of the country.
Sir R. PEEL—WeII, what is a pound ?—(Hear and
laughter.)
Mr. SPOONER said, short though his experience had
been in that House, he had seen and heard enough to
convince him that the Right Hon. Baronet was too great
an adept, and ready at debating in that House, to render
it an easy task for an Hon. Member, like himself, t(
grapple with him in a discussion of this sort. ; but. he
)
Pitt
begged to ask the Right Hon. Baronet where Mr.
would have been when he came down to that e
House t
),3„_
d
for their support during the
by
if h
war, allowedhad
himself to be put down
parties who who called
upon him for a definition of_ the term pound.andlaughter.)
bte.)
Well,r
now, what was a pound ?—(Hear, hear,
What was a pound at the time of the Reformation.—
(Hear, arid laughter.) Hon. Members might laugh,
but lie would tell them that the country could not long
sustain such panics as those they were now witnessing,
without, indeed, the whole frame-work of society were
suffered seriously to be disturbed, if not entirely
broken up.—(Hear, hear.) But the Right Honour-
able
Gentleman had asked him what was a pound ?
He could not answer that question directly, but he
would tell the Right Hon. Baronet that the pound of the
present day greatly exceeded in value the pound which
existed at the time the 800,000,000/. of national _debt
was contracted.—(Hear, hear) He therefore warned
the House, in the words of the late Sir R. Peel, that if
they persisted in continuing the present monetary
policy of the country, they would eventually bring
ruin and destruction upon the nation.—(Hear, hear.)
He never thought that the state of the currency prior to
tt., year 1819 was at all in a state of perfec
believed that the operation of the measure of 1844 would
prove a serious evil. There were at present many mer-
cantile houses in this country which were obliged to re-
fuse a great number of their orders, because they did
not know that they would be able to obtain gold for the
payment of the labourers. The consequence of the mea-
sure would be, that they would keep the gold in the
country, but they would starve the people.
Mr. MUNTZ would support the measure of the Go-
vernment upon the same ground as he would have sup-
ported the measure of the Noble Lord the Member for
Lynn (Lord G. Bentinck), the only objection he had to
the grant was, that it was not large enough. It was
said that the finances of the country were in a bad
state. Why, it was the fault of the Government that
the finances were in that condition. He believed that
the Right Hon. Baronet did perfectly right in bringing
forward his measure of 1844; it was based upon a per-
fectly sound principle, and it was the fault of the Go-
vernment that when assistance was required for
Ireland they were to be met with an objection
respecting the finances of the country.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL was glad to see that this
proposition had obtained so large a share of support,
and he thought if the Noble Lord opposite (Lord G.
Bentinck) had made a less demand than four millions a
year for four years, when he introduced his plan for the
construction of railways in Ireland, that he would have
received much greater support than he did on that oc-
casion. The present motion proposed to give assistance
that it would
only to those railways which had paid up half of the
character,
and whichhe were,was of
opiniontherefore, of a
bona fide
have effected a great deal of good, in giving
employment and mitigating the distress under
which the country at present laboured. In the
neighbourhood of Mallow there were 3,000 per•
sons at present employed in the Southern and Western
Railway, and there could be no doubt that if assistance
were extended to the present measure, proposedthyamtetnht.e
rno,
surplus labour of Ireland would find ample employment.
111,
tee rarde tttoe d w
tehrdyr
amwuc that
the
h her
grant
foArl a jtehsety' s
reclamation Government
o f
the waste lands of Ireland, which had been announced
to-night, for the first time, by the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequergcertain
st
5. haat ti s
fa suchc ti
oann
iinn
Irnei al
at
lodn.
would
be,
e, a
received
ev
waswgiuthite
The Government ought to give their reasons for aban-
doning
the Waste Lands' Bill, and he was anxious that 1
such should be done, as the people of Ireland were anej
xious about it.

Sir R. PEEL said, that during the whole course of
the discussion, it wu his last wish to throw any obsts-