The Sun.
London, England, 1841-10-05 00:00:00

'Lord :Melbourne) did not think those considerations
Ought to have any weight. As for the attend-
ance' if the Noble Duke would give notice
that he intended to bring in a law relating to the impor-
tation of come he might rely on it there would be no
lack of attendance in both Houses of Parliament.—(A
laugh.) He (Lord Melbourne) was not so great a theo-
rist in finance as others, nor was he so much afraid as
others of the consequences of this measure, but ho
thought that, after the language which had been held
be the present Ministers, and the important votes which
they had procured, it was such a measure as they were
not entitled to propose.—(" Hear, hear," from the Op-
pesition.)
The Earl of RIPON was always amused when his
Noble Friend (Lord Melbourne) chose to be jocular ;
and he was• not the loss so when his jocularity was di-
rected against him (Lord, R.). He would not go into a
justification of a speech he had made on a former evening.
and to which his Noble Friend (Lord Melbourne) made
no reply at the time.—(Ministerial cheers.) But his
Noble Friend seemed to be in great doubt whether he
disapproved of the measure or not. "He hints a doubt,
and hesitates dislike."—(A laugh.)
Lord MELBOURNE-7I did not say I disapproved of
the measure at all.—(A laugh.)
The Earl of RIPON—But there was ono thing to
which his Noble Friend did object, and in very strong
language too. He objected that the measure had
been a failure. Now he (Lord Ripon) must say
on the other hand that it was no failure. His Right
lion. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer had not
raised all the money which was at first intended,
but he had raised (as we understood) nearly a million
more than was required to cover the deficit.
Well, then, he said that they were not justified in having
recourse to this, which, of course, no being could deny
was a temporary expedient, on account of amend-
ment which they introduced into the Address. What
was it, he wished to know, that called the attention of the
House to the subject? Not their amendment, but the speech
from the Throne. The Government were bound to be
prepared with measures, having had the whole year to
propose-- them. But, was an individual Member of
the House to be precluded from moving an amend-
ment unless he was prepared to strike off at
once the whole system of financial policy ? The idea
was absurd, and no one knew that it was so better than
his Noble Friend himself.—(Hear, hear.) They were
not liable, therefore, to his Noble Friend's reproach.
If they had undertaken—coming into office at the very
beginning of September —if they had undertaken
to propound then a whole scheme of finance,
and a revision from beginning to end of the
whole commercial . system of the country, the nation
would have considered them as fools and madmen. It
was' very easy for persons who were not practically
acquainted with such matters to make such a
mistake ; but nobody knew better than his Noble
Friend that you could not touch one part of the
financial system, or one great commercial inte-
rest, without indirectly and most seriously af-
fecting all the rest ; that you must not take ,an
isolated part of the scheme, but that you must take a
full, collective, and comnAm-sense view of the whole.
His Noble Friend knew that the science of Govern-
ment, whether legislative or executive, was, in
fact, neither more nor less than a perpetual
struggle with difficulties. They might get over them,
they might evade them, but they were perpetually called
to meet them; and there was no surer way of
being overwhelmed . by them, than to rush with
breathless haste into the adoption of great and
extensive schemes without mature consideration. That
was, in his mind, a sufficient justification of the course
they had taken, and to have proposed any other
just then would have been neither more nor less than
perfect madness. And when his Noble Friend talked of
their having resorted to a loan, he thought that that
was no part of the plan of the late Government.
Why, he knew perfectly well that if his own scheme
had been carried into effect, he could nut
have met the deficiencies of the year without a loan.
The whole amount which he proposed to raise, the defi-
ciency being 2,400,000/., by the doubtful scheme of an alte-
ration of the taxes, was 1,700,0001. He must, therefore,
have had a loan to the same amount. He (the Earl of Ripon)
defied his Noble Friend, or any man of business, to show
that if that scheme had been carried into effect,
it would have been possible, between this and
the beginning of April, 1842, to have made up
the deficiency without resorting to a loan.
He should observe that he had been much surprised
at the speech of his Noble Friend. To borrow. an
expression from his Noble . Friend, it came upon him
". like a clap of thunder." lie should npeat in conclusion
that if they had pursued the course which
his Noble Friend seemed to think they were bound. to
pursue, they would have abandoned their duty—
they would have deceived the people, and that was the very
last thing or which a Government should be guilty.
The Duke of WELLINGTON returned his thanks to
the Noble Viscount for his suggestion of a scheme for
producing a large attendance of Noble Lords in the
House.—(Laughter.) He had but one answer to give the
Noble Viscount, which was that he would never an-
nounce to the House en intention which he did not en-
tertain.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") He had no intention
of bringing forward a scheme for an alteration of the
Corn-laws, and he had not the power of doing so. He
had not sufficiently considered the subject to be enabled
to bring forward a scheme for an alteration of those laws,
and he therefore declined to announce any intention to
the House upon the matter. He therefore begged leave
to suggest to the Noble Viscount, if he wished to collect
a number of Peers, that he - should propose some other
scheme. The Noble Viscount had likewise adverted
to something which he (the Duke of Wellington)
had said three or four years ago, respecting the funding.
.of Exchequer Bills—a measure brought forward by the
Government, and at that time it being part of the an-
nual system of finance. But it should be remembered
that the Government of the present day had to adopt a
system of finance at the termination of the Session of
Parliament, there being at that time a deficit in the -
Budget, as announced by the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer, of 2,500,000/. But then 2,500,0001. was by no
means the entire amount, although a large item of the
accumulated arrear to be provided for by some means
or other. He understood that in addition to that sum,
when his Right Hon. Friend at the head of the Treasury
came forward to examine and see what the real expendi-
ture of the country had been, and what was the real
demand upon the Treasury at the present moment, he
found that with the demands from the Colonies, from the
East, from Canada, and elsewhere, there was a very
large sum which had not been taken into account at all
in estimating the Budget.. These items were, there-
fore, to be added to the 2,500.000/. There were other
engagements also which involved additional expenses,
and all those matters must be taken into consideration
before any Government could pretend to come forward
to the country and say what would be the permanent
expenses of the State. The means of supplying arrears
and of the future expenses of the country would demand
their entire attention and consideration before they
could be laid before the House in the shape of any
specific measures. He (the Duke of Wellington) did not
now mean to draw their Lordships' attention. to those
matters, but if the Noble Viscount attacked Ministers
they must be expected to defend themselves.-

•
Lord BROUGHAM hoped that their Lordships
would, during the few days that should intervene be-
tween the present time and. the prorogation of Parlia-
ment, apply their minds to the two subjects which had
been particularly brought under their consideration. He
trusted that the Ministry would come prepared next Ses-
sion with measures on such important matters as the
general state of the commercial policy ' to which his
Noble Friend at the head of the Board of Trade re-
ferred, and that to which his Noble Friends who spoke,
last alluded, including the trade in corn and general
visions. .