The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-25 00:00:00

THE NAVIGATION LAWS.

The select committee on this subject met onTuesday in
committee-room N 0.2. There were present, Mr. Ricardo,
who, in the absence of Mr. M. Gibson, was appointed to
the chair • Hon. Mr. Liddell, Mr. Mitchell, Admiral
Dundas, kr. Hume, Mr. Lyall, Sir Robert Peel, Sir
George Clerk, Mr. WCarthy, Sir Howard Douglas,
Hon. Mr. Villiers.
The examination of Mr. Browning was resumed.
By Mr. Hume—He was well acquainted with thde
South Sea whale fishing trade, both in its English and-
American branches. The Americans had a grcu reat a
vantage over the English, owing to the circumstance
that their vessels were provided cheaper. They w
generally ships that were too old for other trades ; and
they were purchased and fitted out on a joint account by
different parties ; the shipwrights repairing her, and
other artisans fitting her with stores, taking their chance
of the profits arising from her fishing. The same are
rangement was made with those who navigated her—tha
ordinary seaman receiving one-sixtieth part of her net
profits, and the captain about one-twelfth. Then the
vessel did not carry any money with her ; but the cap-
tain took out a quantity of cotton goods, with which he
traded with the islanders in those seas for provisions.
He turned this to account even with his own sailors, for
if they wanted spending money the captain told them
that he would advance them no money, and that if they
wished to anticipate their profits, or their lay, as they
termed it, they must do so at their own disadvantage,
for he could only give them cotton goods, which were
worth not more than from two to three cents per yard,
but for which he charged them at the rate of 2s. per
yard, and the sailors in their thoughtlessness, were too
read) to agree to it. He knew that British seamen were,
to a considerable extent, employed in the American
whale fishery. There were a great number of burdens
and duties pressing upon the American whale ships; he
calculated them to amount on a ship of 317 tons to 3641.
He knew that this was the case in 1844. The English
whalers could not compete with these American vessels,
because they were fitted out for a three or four years'
voyage, so that an expense was incurred which the
profits would not pay. But the colonial whale fishing
vessels, particularly those from Australia, were well able
to compete with the Americans, and their numbers were
increasing. If the navigation-laws were repealed and
the colonists allowed to purchase foreign vessels, parti-
cularly those- that might be stranded on their coasts,
they would have a still greater advantage. The number
of vessels of all sizes employed by the Americans in this
trade on the Ist of January, 1847, amounted to 722.
The number of British whalers was thirty-nine. The
number of vessels employed from Sydney, New Bruns-
wick, Van Diemen's Land, &c., amounted to seventy-
five. The American whalers were generally of an in-
ferior class of vessels, and could not follow the whales
into high latitudes or hook on to them in rough weather.
The best whaling ground was off the Chatham Islands,
where the weather was stormy. If the navigation-laws
were repealed, he had no fear of competition with the
Americans.
By Admiral Dundas—The system of paying the sea-
men by the lay made the bargain a more profitable bar-
gain for the owners; but it tended to disgust the seamen
with the service, as captains were sometimes induced to
ill-treat their men, to force them to desert, and thus
forfeit their claims to their share in the profits. The
colonial whalers w ere principally manned by English
men, and now they employed a great number of their
New Zealand fellow-subjects, who made capital whalers,
particularly in striking the whale. He expected much
good from the colonists being allowed to purchase fo-
reign stranded vessels; but he could not tell how many
had been stranded in the course of a year. Ti .e
American Government used to give a bounty to their
whale fishers, but he did not know if it was still con-
tinued.
By Mr. Liddell—lf the London whaling vessels were
to remain constantly upon the fishing grounds, and
send the cargo home on freight, they would be able to
carry on the trade to great advantage; because their
vessels were stronger than those of the Americans, and
could follow the whales into latitudes where the Ame-
ricans could not follow them. The English shipowners
had nothing to fear, if the duties were removed from fo-
reign timber used in ship building.
Mr. Liddell—Bat are not the generality of British
vessels built of British oak? Mr. Browning--They
would be so, but the supply is not equal to the demand.
Mr. Liddell—Well, I can assure you that I live in a
ship-building country, and I have a good deal of oak to
dispose of; but Ido not find, unfortunately, that the
demand is equal to the supply ?—(Laughter.)
Admiral vandal—lt the navigation-laws were re-
pealed, would not the Dutch, Danes, and Swedes enter
into the trade of bringing coals from Newcastle to
London, and sail their ships cheaper than we do? Mr.
Browning—l do not think they would. The men would
desert immediately.
Admiral Dundas—l don't think you understand my
question. Suppose a Dutchman to bring a cargo of
coals from Newcastle to London, would he carry these
coals cheaper than an Englishman would carry them?
Mr. Browning—lf the navigation-laws were repealed,
we should get our ships cheaper than we do now.
Admiral Dunda'—But did you ever see the feeding
on board these ships? Mr. Browning—lf they come
into this country they must be fed the same as our own
sailors.
Admiral Dundas—But the Dutchman lives on board
his own ship ; he has nothing to do with our ships or
sailors.

Mr. Hume explained that the witness meant that the
effect of competition would he to equalise the rate of
wages and provisions on board both kinds of ships.
Mr M'Carthv—As the Baltic ships- are frozen up in
their own ports for a great portion of the winter, would
it not be a great advantage to them to employ the winter
in our coasting trade? Mr. Browning—Oh, the men
would desert immediately.
Mr. Liddell—But they crime over here occasionally
now; why do they not desert?
By Mr. Mitchell—Leaving out the question of the coal
trade, there was not the remotest chance of foreigners
competing with us in our coasting trade.
This closed the examination of Mr. Browning; after
which the committee-room was cleared for a short time.
On our re-admission we found
Mr. Berger, of the firm of M'Lean, Mearns, and Co.,
merchants and commission agents, under examination.
He said that his house was engaged in bringing
several articles frem the United States, but no:
the produce of that country, into England.
Among these articles were palm oil, African and East
India hides, gums, Cuba tobacco, East India drugs,
spices, &c. These articles, under the provision of the
navigation-laws, could only be brought here in British
vessels; and as they were for the most part shipped from
the northern ports of the States, such as Salem, Boston,
&c., to which ports English vessels seldom came, the
consequence was that they had often to wait for weeks
and months in order to obtain vessels, and sometimes to
send for them to St. John's, New Brunswick, and other
colonial ports. The vessels so obtained were generally
of an inferior description, involving increased insurances,
risk of loss, and risk of losing the market. He cited
several instances where the merchants had sustained
great loss and inconvenience in consequence, and in
some cases where the goods were not shipped at all;
and this latter consequence had lost his firm the corn.
mission on the cargo, which was a heavy loss, that he
could not consider otherwise than a tax which they had
to pay for the protection of British shipping. lie was
aware that American vessels were generally preferred
by American merchants in which to ship their goods.
He was frequently ordered by his American correspon-
dents on no account to ship their goods in British ves-
sels. This happened every month. He believed this
preference did not arise from patriotic motives, but
simply from commercial motives.
By Sir George Clerk—The principal reason why the
American vessels were preferred was their superior sail.
ing. He had also been engaged in the Mediterranean
trade, and the same inconveniences were experienced in
that trade. For instance, the Gambia and Senegal trade
was almost exclusively in the hands of the Bordeaux
and Marseilles merchants, and the gums brought in
those trades could not be brought to England even by
English vessels. The consequence was that when the
English market was bare, the manufacturers must either
go without, or they were carried from Bordeaux to
America, and then, at great cost and loss of time, trans-
shipped to England.
By Mr. Liddell—The American navigation-laws,
which were the type of our own, prevented foreign
goods being sent from this country except in American
vessels ; and this caused a great loss of freight to the
English, for these articles of foreign produce were gene-
rally of a very fine description, which commanded high
freights. The English only exported the coarser and
cheaper articles, which commanded low freights. He
was aware that the best English vessels were quite able
to compete with the finest American vessels, but the
English ships of that class went chiefly to the south for
cotton, and it was only the ships of an inferior class that
went to New York and the other northern ports.
By Sir R. Peel—The great reason why the American
ships were preferred was that they made the voyage
quicker. He should be sorry to say anything in dis-
paragement of British seamen, but he believed that,
cceteris paribus, the American captains and mates were
smarter and more intelligent than the English, which
was shown by the fact that they got their cargoes in and
out sooner than the English officers ; for in more than
one instance his American correspondents had com•
plained that the English captains were so long in dis-
charging their cargoes, though, on the average, there
was a greater number of hands on board the English
vessels.
He considered that the average amount of dif-
ference between the English and American vessels on
their
that page to this country was about ten days ; and
By air difference was still greater on the passage out.
repealed, he wardDouglas—lf the navigation-laws were
he was engaged thought that the particular trade in which
would be doubled; and, therefore, even
Americans
though the
sobtained a share in it, that would
not diminish the profits
now made by the English, or, at
any rate, the loss would be so small as to bear no pro-
portion to the loss sustainedes present by the merchants.
By Admiral Dundas—The abject the navigation-
laws might be the encouragemnt of seamen
seamenamen
than but the
fact was, they had already produced
been able to spare so
they wanted, and hence they had
many to the Americans.
Admiral Dundas—Then you think the repeal of the
navigation-laws would reduce the number?—Mr.Berger
did not say that ; but he must remark that the amount
of British shipping did not cause trade, but it was trade
that caused the amount of British shipping
to be em-
ployed ; and therefore he thought that the increase of
trade would cause the number of British ships and
British seamen to be increased. With regard to the
Baltic ships, he knew that they were built and navigated
nominally cheaper, yet they were not so in reality.
People were apt to lose sight of the fact that even now
the Baltic shipowners preferred their vessels to be frozen
up in their ports for three months in a year rather than
send them abroad. They had certain advantages while
A at home, but the moment they left their own shores
those advantages were lost ; 19r they must raise the