The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-13 00:00:00

he was unfortunately connected, but he was pleading the
cause of every honest man who had embarked hiscapital in
trade, who had a right to be told why certain measures were
adopted, by which he felt his property would be involved
in considerable hazard. It would be in the recollection
of the House that early in the course of last Session the
East India Cempary presented a petition stating va-
rious grievances under which they considered them-
selves ►abouring in respect to the differential duties
levied on East Indian produce. Nothing could be fairer
than that petition. It was suggested to his Hon. Friends
the Members for Shrewsbury and B verley, who presented
that petition, that it would be better to refer it to a Select
Commitee, and that recommendation he believed came
from a Member of the Government.

in favour of his argument by saying that the present \Vest
India trade was an otlious monopoly. It might be very
well to give such names to interests we were desirous to
abolish, bat ho confessed he had heard with some satisfac-
tion the observations of the Right Hon. Gentleman. The
Right Hon. Gentleman had stated that if be could believe
that the measure in question would be injurious to the
West Indies he should be the last to propose it, and he
(Mr. Goulburn) trusted he had in some degree satisfied
him th it these interests would be placed in jeopardy by the
course he was about to pursue. But if be had tailed to do
this, he asked if the Right Hon. Gentleman was aware of
the effect which the mere statement of his intentions
had produced ? On the very day on which he
stated his intentions, British Rum fell in the market 13
per cent., and if the Hon. Gentleman was not snare of
that being the effect, he (Mr. G.) asked if he could not
thence estimate what alarm the success of this measure would
produce ? Those most interested in it were pretty shrewd
estimators of coming events. What then were likely to be
the consequences of this measure if the !Luse should ac
cede to it ? The Right Hon. Gentleman had given the
West India Body to understand that the Government did
not intend to affect time existing duties on their produce,
being Sensible of the difficulties in which the Colonies were
placed; and it he (Mr. Goulburn) had succeeded in show-
ing. the House, what was impressed upon his own mind, that
the measure could not affect East India produce, he theu'Lt
he had said enough to satisfy them that they woall have
acted more wisely, mo, e consistently, and he might say,
more justly, if they had adopted Om resolution of the Com-
mittee of the House of Lords, and not hastily and at once
subjected cur West India interests to sioleet change at a
time when they were on the brink of ruin, but have waited
till it was decided, as it would speedily be, ,hasher it
wan possible for them to weather the storm nods r which
they were labouring, and to corn; etc with other interests.
Ile knew, when they considered the enormous population
of the East Indies, and the limited population of the
West Indies, some persons might be of opinion the latter
were comparatively little deserving, of notice. But he
never could forget that our West Indian Islands were
among the earliest possessions of the British Crown—that
it was through the medium of these colonies Great Britain
had acquired that strength and interest, and naval power
which had made her one of the gteatest powers in the
world. It was through them she had been enabled to
acquire this empire in India, fur which the Committee
WAS non, prepared to sacrifice their interests. The time
might come when, through the medium of these colonies,
Great Britain might still have the means of rendering
herself illustrious in war and wealthy in pence. There
might still exist feelings of regard between them, if Great
Britain would consent in time to cement those bends of
intercourse which were reeessari. for their mutual inte-
rests. lie apologised to the Coat nittee for so long tree-
pessing on their attention. flit object had been to insist,
on the part of the West Indian body, upon the oeligetions
of good faith which the Government were under, and to
call upon the Committee not to sanction the principle
proposed to it, or to adopt a course which, if pursued,
world involve our West Indian possess!ons in immediate
difficult v, if not in absolute ruin.--( Hear, hear.)
Mr. -LA BO LTC HERE said hit confessed he had heard
the speech just addressed to the Committee by the Right
Hon. Gentleman ( Mr. Goulburn) with great satisfaction.
—( Cheers.) Attaching, as he did, great importance to
the motion be had brought forward, both on account of its
merits, bet still more on account of the principle which it
contained-_(Cheers)—he confessed he rejoiced that he
had beard from a gentleman possessed of the ability, in-.
formation, and lone experience of the Right Hon. Gentle-
man, arguments which, unless he geeatly deceived him-
eelf, had in them so little substance—(Cheers)—that,
comparatively speaking, in even a short statement from
himself, inferior as be knew himself to be to the Right
Hon. Gentleman in every quality, he trusted it would be
extremcle easy to convince the House that nothing had
been stated which ought to interpose any obstacle to the
immediate adoption of this resolution.—(Cheers. ) The
Right Hon. Gentleman had begun by complaining of the
conduct of the Government, because, having assented
to the appointment of a Committee of both Houses,
on the subject in the course of last Session, and the
Committee of the House of Lords having expressed an
opinion not unfavourable to the principie of this measure,
hut, on the contrary, assenting to it, but recommended
delay before it was adopted, the Government agreed
with the House of Lords on the principle, but were Un-
able to agree in the recommendation that delay should
take place.—' eheere.) It was not for him to speak dis-
respectfully of any recommendation of either House of
Parliament, still less of the recommendation of a Commit-
tee which consisted of Noble Lords of the greatest capa-
city, and which had given the subject an attentive investi-
gation. But this he would say, that, in his opinion, no Minis-
ter who held the situation he had the honour to hold, had
a right to skulk behind the Report of any Committee, either
in defending himself, or bmingiug forward a proposition
which he did not believe to be just and reasonable ; or, on
the other hand, for refusing to bring forward a measure
which he believed to be expedient and necessary for the
public interest.—(Cheers.) And he would also say, with
respect to these general Reports of Committees of both
Houses of Parliament, that he thought them invaluable for
collecting information, and suggesting general principles;
but as to advising the House as to the precise mode and
time for carrying any measure into effect, he believed this
would be much better done by those who, having excess to
official sources of information, were more likely to come to
a correct conclusion as to the m mnner of carrying it into
effect than any Committee could be. The Right lion.
Gentleman had taunted him that two Noble Friends,
who were now Mernbere of the Government, had
been Members of this Committee of the House of Lords.
lie (Mr. Labouchere) acknowledged this to have been the
case, but he believed they had attached more importance
than they ought to have done to the statement of the
West Indians, as to the effect of the alteration ; but he
had been able to give his Noble Friends satisfactory rea-
sons that these statements were incorrect, as he hoped he
should be, able to give the Committee. Li truth, the
question between the Right Hon. Gentleman and himself
lay in a very narrow compass. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man had just told the House the Weat Indians had no in•
defeasible right to a monopoly any more than
her Majesty's colonial subjects in any other part
of the world. All be Lad said was, that the pecu-
-1 ar circumstances in which the Nest Indies were
placed called fur some important application of a prin-
ciple which he believed to be abstractedly just. lie
(Mr. Labouchere) thought he should be able to show to
the House—he did not at all deny the effect of this motion
would be important, that of necessity, it must be gradual—
that it could produce no sudden effect to the ruin of West
Indian interests. Such statements were founded on the
most exaggerated views. He trusted that the House
would bear with him while he entered into such details of
this dry subject as were necessary to make it intelligible.
Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had re-
minded him of it statement he had made with regard to the
present condition of time rum trade, when he had first
brought the question before the House. He (Mr. Goal-
burn) had stated, and stated correctly, that at that mo-
ment these was a greater quantity of rum brought into the
the United Kingdom than could be consumed in it—( Hear,
hear)—and that in consequence the surplus was
exported, and that though time West Indians had no-
minally and legally a monopoly of the English
market, yet they were not able to impose upon the Eng-
lish market a monopoly of price. That was true ; but it
was not true if they altered the duty. They did not sud-
denly alter the prices of rum as it' they were to let in
foreign sugar. He believed it was quite true of the
coarse sorts of rum and the rum of the Leeward Islands,
but the rum of Jamaica was in a different situation ; its
price was nearly double the Leeward Islands rum. Jamaica
rum undoubtedly maintained a monopoly of price in the
English market, and they anticipated that if the East
Indians were allowed to bring rum here they would be
able to compete with Jamaica runt and to gradually reduce
its price. But was not this a desirable object ?
(Cheers.) Was it not fair that the East Indians should
, introduce rum and sell it ? But it was obvious that this

Sir J. C. HOBHOUSE—Yes ; from myself.
Mr. GOULBURN—In consequence of that recom-
mendation, the petitions of the East India Company, both
to this and the other House of Parliament, were referred
to Select Committees of Members of the respective
Houses. In the other House of Parliament the Members
of the Government took a direct part in that Committee.
The first on the list of that Committee was the Noble Lord
who presided over the Council, and who, from his position
and knowledge, might be considered as fairly representing
the feelings of the Government. Another Member of that
Committee was the Noble Lord who held the Privy Seal,
and who was also now Chancellor of the &achy
of Lancaster, and he considered he was paying
the Noble Lord no idle compliment when he
said he considered that he possessed perhaps greats r
power of forming a correct: judgment on such a sub-
ject than any of his colleaeues ; and that he was mare
peculiarly fitted for such. an inquiry from the great
diligence and ability with which he had for a long
time executed the functions cf a Commissioner of Customs,
which afforded him peculiar opportunities of becoming
acquainted with the operation of tidihrential duties. That
Committee made a Report, from which be would read an ex-
tract. The Right Hon. Gentleman then read an extract from
the Report of the Lords' Committee. The Committee
stated that it would be very gratifying had they deemed
themselves justified in recommending that the duty en
East and West India Rum should be assimilated, but the
circumstances detailed in the evidence rendered the equa-
lization inexpedient for the present. To thet opinion,
expressed after going freely into the evidence, he (Mr.
Goulburn) was prepared to give his assent. There were
hundreds who, upon the faith of this declaration, had ex-
pended capital to an enormous amount in maintaining their
establishments, in the hope that a time would come when
this expenditure would return them some profit. Nor was
that all. That Report wes communicated to the House
of Commons, and was Mere. the Commit ce of 112,C,
House appointed to consider that particular subject—
a Committee including within it distinguished Mem-
bers of the Government.—( Hear. ) 'The Report of the
House of Lords, declaring that the time had not
arrived for placing the East and Wet Indies upon equal
footing was before the Committee of the House of Com-
mons, and after going fully into the evidence, and sitting
for a very considerable period of the Session, what was
their ft,-port ? It was as follows :—" That this Commit-
tee find it impossible to conclude in the present See ion
the evidence proposed to be laid before them, and teoy
think they shall best perform their duty by confining them.
selves to reporting to tee House fee evidence already
taken." They thought it best to report the evidence with.
out expressing any opinion contrary to that already before
the public, and they gave an inoitnation that they should re-
sume the inquiry in the next Session of ['arliarnent. N )w,
he put it to the House whether it would have been ex-
pected, after whet had'taken place, e hen the evidence had
not been long enough in the hands of Members to enable
them, by the exercise of ordinary diligence, to go through
it, that the first measure of Government in the Session
would have been entirely at variance with the decision that
had been come to in the House of Lords, and acquiesced in
in the Commons, with respect to the equalization of these
duties ? It was not the rum of India alone which was
sought to be placed upon an equal footing. No man who
had attended to the evidence, or consulted those who are
most conversant with the opinions which bad been excited
in this country, could entertain a doubt that rum was not
the only article which was to be affected by the proposed
alteration. No man could suppose that it was intended to
limit it to the spirit which was produced from the refuse of
the sugar-cane. The measure would extend a great deal
further in its immediate operation than the state merits and
reasoning of the Hon. Gentleman who proposed it would
seem to intimate. What necessity, he would ask, was
there for deviating from what had been recommended by
the House of Lords ? Could they not render the altera-
tion proposed gradual—could it not be introduced by
degrees, so that the fall in the price of commodities, the
produce of the West Indies that would necesiarily result
from the changes proposed, would not be attended with
such sudden foss as it would otherwise be ?
They were not in that question called on, as regarded
the East Indies, to provide fur a greatly suffering
people. There was no representation in the documents to
which he referred, that the interest there engaged in the
manufacture of rum or the growth of sugar, was suffering
any great depression. They were not called on to provide
for the security of a large capital which, on the faith of the
country, was invested in a peculiar trade there. They
were not called on to introduce any prohibition which would
have the effect of excluding from existing advantages those
who enjoyed them. They were not called on to remove any
prohibition fatal to the existence of any branch of internal
or external commerce. Quite the contrary. The Com-
mittee of the:Houso of Lords, and Ministers, told them that
it was quite the contrary—that the effect of postponement
in the present instance was only to cause for a moment a
new source of profit. The Hon. Gentleman here referred
to portions of the evidence given before a Committee of
the House by rum-producers, which were favourable to the
views which be wished to impress on the House, and col-
tinued to observe that so far was the trade in sugar, the
produce of the West Indies, from increasing, that the very
contrary was the case. Hon. Members knots from documents
laid on the table, and that were in the bands of every
man, that the produce of those colonies had hitherto been
decreasing. They knew also—at least they might easily
calculate—what would be the effect on the civilization and
improvement of those colonies if, by a sudden blow, they
should cause to be withdrawn the capital now employed in
paying the labourers on the several estates. They
should remember that the state of society there had
within the last few years undergone an entire revolution.
The people were not in slavery now as hitherto, and it
should be recollected that that very state of slavery un-
doubtedly increased the production there beyond what the
hands employed upon it could reasonably induce Hon.
Members to calculate upon. He sincerely rejoiced that
that state of slavery had been changed for that of freedom.
He never ventured to measure the advantages obtained by
individuals against the permanent advantages obtained by
the whole body of the people by the enjoyment of freedom.
He was ever ready to concur in the measures of Parlia-
ment, either 'for improving the condition of the slaves, or
subsequently conferring freedom ; upon them nor did he,
though: suffering in co.nmon with others from the conse-
quences of that measure, regret its being carried into ope-
ration. When those measures were first enacted, those
who took a real interest in the welfare of the coloni s, and
had estates there, betook themselves, in the interval of the
apprenticeship, to expend the money they received from
Government, in endeavouring to make the system of free-
dom work well when it would have come to pass. He
could instance many persons who having no debts or in-
cumbrances on their own estates, bad expended the whole
of their capital in making preparations on their estates for
the abolition of slavery, and for gradually introducing the
negroes to freedom. Those individuals who thus stood by
the colonies, were plunged }nip;. difficulties which it was
impossible for those who bird tiKperienced them to con-
ceive. He spoke not onliwriOnOill' own experience, but
from that of others. The sudden burst of freedom made
every slave wild with joy. It became almost impossible to
get airy of them to work, and in consequence the crops
were frequently left uncollected. Hon. Gentlemen might
not be aware of the disastrous consequences of leaving
the flocks uncollected, but they were such as would pre-
vent the proprietors of estates from obtaining the
least return or profit from their properties for a series
of years afterwards. Such having been the difficulties
in which the holders of estates in those colonies, but espe-
cially in the island of Jamaica, were plunged by the
change which had taken place by the decision of Parlia-
ment, and employed as they had been since that period, in
endeavouring to recover the ground which from that cir.
eumstance they bad lost, by continued expenditure on their
properties, in the hope of obtaining a return, all he was
anxious to ask of the House—and it was no more than
what had been recommended by a Committee of the House
of Lords—was that they should not at that moment, when
capital was being expended, when there had not elapsed
time sufficient to allow of such a re-establishment of pro-
perty, as to admit of the slightest return of any part of
the capital expended—all he asked of the House was to
adopt the well considered resolution of the House of Lords,
and not visit those colonies, so suffering and so injured;
with the ruinous consequences in which the equaliza-
tion of duties would irretrievably involve them.
Taking the question as merely one of duty, the
difference of the distinctive duties on East and

could not be done at once. It wouldi-equiresr;;
time to improve the quality of Indian rum, and when
he said he did not object to do this, he would remind the
House that the price of rum was higher now in England
than at any time during the last twenty-five years. He
said, therefore, that the British consumer ought not to
b. e lost sight of in a question of this sort. It would be an
inducement to introduce finer as well as coarse sugar. He
thought lie had sufficiently shown the House that he should
not inflict a sudden blow en the West Indian interests, or
do anything to produce an effect which had been described
in such exaggerated language as that of placing the West
Indies in a state of hopeless and irretrievable ruin. He
now begged the attention of the House to what appeared
to him to be an important branch of the subject, namely,
the effect the present system of discouragement to import
ing East Indian rroduce had on the produce and supply of
sugar to this country. He trusted the House would con-
sider the double operation of the present system. The
Right Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the evidence before
the Committee, but individuals of the highest respecta-
iiiity, Mr. Rogers and others, who had embarked large
capital in the cultivation of sugar in the East Indies, stated
that they found they could no longer find a market for mo-
lasses unless encouragement were given them to make it
into rum, which proved a serious check to the cultivation
of sugar. The testimony of Mr Symonds was to the
same effset. He (Mr. Labouchere) believed this mono-
poly restricted the cultivation of sugar in the East Indies,
and that the present system of rum duties operated as a
serious discouragement to their efforts. He would now
turn to the West Indies, and what was the effect produced
by these duties there. There was remarkable evidence
given by the West Indians themselves. He alluded to a
witness whem the Right Hon. Gentleman bad quoted,
named Green, who said, " The consequence of the h'gli
price of rum in the West ladies, is to divert the ma.
nufacture of the produce of the sugar cane from
the manufacture of sugar to the manufacture of rum."
The proportion was now entirely reversed, and more
rum came, and less sugar.—( Mr. Goulbern cheered.)
The Right Honourable Gentleman cheered, implying
that it was advantageous to the West Indies. But what
was its effect here?—(Cheers.) Was it not shown that
m
this syste checks the production of sugar in the West
Indies, by giving the merchant encouragement
to send
rum instead of sugar ; and that in the East Indies it also
discouraged the manufacture of sugar, and dur isesbed the
supply ? lie must say when these were the r frects—when
this was the injurious operation of these duties in :be East
and West I idles, he was convinced this inequality was a
gross injustice—(Cheers)—ene which rankled in the
minds of the Indian community, ani which it was their
duty to remove. On the other hand, being convinced [het
'liege were no real gr,ut:ds for saying that the removal of this
sssilll would be tatal to tilt' prop. my of the West Indies,
ne felt, if he had ad; pted a different course, he should
have desersed his duty, and broken his faith to those gen-
tlemen connected with the East ladies whom he promised,
not
only that these matters should be referred to a Com-
mittee, but that he would consider their Report, and if
convinced that any part of their demand was founded in
justice, would lose no time in applying a remedy
• 11. CVO; at which they cumplain..'i —I fle3r: !war.)
tt ise gloss,, couch .origcr. lie tv.:s
almost ashamed of urging this question again, after it had
been IQ much narrowed._( Hear, hear.) When he looked

West India products of sugar amounted, as stated in
evidence given before the House, and which they had on
the table, to 12 per cent. and by means of the measure of
emancipation and its consequences, the price of labour had
been so raised, that the amount of duty imposed on the
produce of the West Indies wsis in effect more than double
that sum. The Right Hon. Gentleman next proceeded to
show that the relative conditions of the cultivators of the
soil in the West and East Indies, were materially different,
aad that the producers in the East had advantages in that
respect which the West Indian planter did not possess. In
the West Indies the labourer might work one day and idle
the next, or go to any portion of the colony, and perhaps
never be beard of again. That was not the case in the
East Indies ; there was a coonection arising from the cir-
cumstances of society in that country, which bound the
whc
laboureriihho
omore or less to ,the cultivation of the property on
happened to reside, and that gave a facility of
obtaining labour which it was not possible to possess in the
West Indies, and that circumstance alone, he contended,
ought to induce Hon. Members to take a favourable view of
the present condition of the West Indies, and not to press
the present measure. The grower of sugar in the East
Indies had other advantages, too, that were inaccessible to
the owners of estates in the West Indies. The growers
of
.sugar in the East Italics had a market of erne hundred
Imillions of people in which to di,pose of their produce.
' The sugar cf the East Indies travelled into the interior of
Asia, and into those extensive tracts to which the nu;sian
merchants trafficked, and from that enormous market of
one hundred millions of people the \Vett Indian produeer was
more effectually excluded than by any system of prohibi-
tory duties that could be established. He believed the
equalization of duties was essential to the prosperity
East Indies. He would readily waive, as far as viras euu-
s istent with the safety of our other possessions, all
claims on the part of the body on whose be-
half he was speaking. But when he saw that they had
unlimited means of extend:ng their produce, short of cx-
teading the whole of it into this country, he could not per-
suade himself, after the most candid attention he could give
!o suijeet, that by , z
there c,,uld be any dvgrei.: of peril:anent ur crc,, teityth day
injury to their interests. He knew. the RightGFn-
, demo (Mr. Labouchere) had tried to raise something

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDNY, FEBRUARY 13, 1841.

at the situation of India, and remembered that they dretv
three millions and a half annually for the cxpenccs of the
Government, for which they could give no return, unless
it was by means of the proposed meetnre—( Hear, hear)—
when he recollected that we had not, he admitted, by ihe
effect of our laws, though they had too often been unjust,
but by the effect of our machinery, and by the natural
advantage, we poeseesed, utterly devroyed her manufac-
tures; when he recollected that it had been stated by one
of the witnesses, that a town which was formerly conside cd
the Manchester of India had dwindled down to 30,000
inhabitants, and the jungle and malaria were gaining upon
its streets, and there were numerous CIZIFSCS of persons in
.that country who, from the prejudices of caste, found it so
difficult to obtain employment, that they had been reduced
to the lowest state of misery and distress; when he con-
sidered alfthese things, he thought he had a right to ask
the House to accede to the measure which was then under
their attention. He would not weary the House with the
details of this question, but really there were some facts
so remarkable that he could not help referring to
them. He held in his hand a return of the quentjties
of cottons and muslins of British manufacture which had
been exported in the last few yeses, and really the increase
was most remarkable. The Hon. Gentleman the❑ pso-
ceeded to give some returns, showing an is:et-ease from 1814
in the exportation of mveling and cottons. I❑ 1825 the
value of yarn sent from England was 16,000/ ; in 1837
it amounted to 602,0001 Ali the evidence which they had
received showed that the demand en th- part of India for
our manufactures was only limited by our own restrictions.
He would not, as he might do, appeal to the feelings, the
generosity, and the justice of that blouse; but he would
ask those who represented British interests and British
manufactures whether they would not be consulting their
owii interests by giving encouragement to Indian produce ?
—([Tear, hear.) He did not know that, until he heard
some further arguments upon the subject, he needed
trouYe the House at any greater length. He confessed him -
self rejoiced that the lion. Gentleman did not use argu-
ments which he bad seen calcuhtted in certain papers ; he
rejoiced that the Right Hon. Gentleman, though he had
fairly stated his views as a West Indian, and bis opinion
that the measure should not be adapted on account of the
peculiar situation of the West Indies, did not at-
tempt an unworthy appeal—and he must say it was
an appeal as foolish as it was unworthy—to the vague
fears of the agricultural interest.---( Hear, hear.) He
would have blushed if, en that occasion, he had seen a gen-
tleman of England come forward, with a protection really
at that moment upon British spirit, as compared with co
lonial spirit, greater by 181. a gallon. He should have
blushed if lie had seen an English genlernan—
."ile. H. GOULBURN—In England?

Mr. LAB 0 UCH 14] NE —The diff eronee would be still
greater in Ireland and Scotland. 11e imagined no one
would suppose that there was the slightest danger in these
two countries.--( Hear, bear.) But he really hoped that
that argument would not be used, for it ivould not boa cre-
ditable argument to say that, with this enormous protection,
they were af:ai 1 that s...lch was the fc r:ility of India that
they were afraid some portions of British spirits might by
possibility he displaced by spirits coning from India, if
this 13.11 pased. Ile expected to have had to deal more at

large with that argurnerit, but as it had not been advanced
by the Hen. Gentleman, he would riot trouble the House
with any observations upon it. He would now state, in
conclusion, that attaching, as he did, gre.t importance to
this question on its own merits, he attached much greater
importance to it on accaunt of the principle which it in-
volved. He was quite sure that in a country like this,
possessing a widely-extended colonial empire, there was
but one safe as well as rational principle, Lamely, to treat
with equal favour and justice, every portion of that empire.
—( Hear, hear.) lie therefore hoped that he should re-
ceive the support of the House upon that occasion. He
would not trouble the House any further than to thank
them for the indulgence which they had shown him.
Mr. ENVAR.T said that the Right Hon. GAitleman
opposite, in opposing this measure, had first based his
opposition upon the Report of the House of Lords. Upon
that he had been fully met by his lion. Friend. He had
then taken refuge in the proceedings of the Committee of
the House of Commons. That Committee, it was said,
made no Report. But why had they not done so? Not
because they were not convinced by the arguments in fa-
vour of the equalization of duty, but because the Commit-
tee was delayed throughout the whole of its proceedings by
the Right Hon. a:ntlernan the Member for the Mauritius,
whom be saw opposite to him.—( Laughter. The Hon.

Member was understot'd to refer to Mr. Irving.) The
Right Hon. Gentleman had stated that the East Indian
rum found a ready market. Upon that point he would
refer to the evidence taken before the Committee. Mr.
Trevillian stated that there was no market for East Indian
rum, when it could be sold at a profit, except in the Eng-
lish market. Mr. Rogers, who was himself the owner of a
large factory in the interior of Lelia, said, that under the
present system there was no effective competition between
East and West India rum. He confessed be should have
been better pleased if her Majesty's Government had pro-
posed a more comprehensive measure. He thought they
were bound to encourage the importation of the national
productions of India—sugar, rum, cotton, tobacco, indigo,
and other articles. As they had grimed the reduction of
the sugar duties it followed as a matter of course that the
equalization of the rum duties should be conceded
also. It should be remembered that at the conclusion of
1839, the stock of sugar was calculated at 40,000 tons,
and that at the end of 1840 it was 200,000. In 1835 tit:.
consumption was 200,000 tons, whilst in 1840 it was only
165,000. The people of England were thus deprived of
35,000 tons,. although the population was increasing.—
Rum was not the only article upon which the duty was
unequal. There was a duty of 9d. upon Mysore coffee,
instead of the colonial duty of 6d.. This was a great in-
justice to the people of India. Mysore vial 'virtually a
British possession; it was one of those countries which
came under the subsidiary system, and ought not therefore
to be treated with such manifest injustice. There were
at this moment many . prospects of advantages to the Bri-
tish capitalist in India. In almost alt parts of India, the
transit duties bad been abolished. Though they still
existed to a certain extent in Madras, yet they were gra-
dually disappearing • and this would be a great relief to
commerce and manufactures, and greatly encourage capi-
talists in their undertakings. In the last Session of Par-
liament he (Mr. Ewart) moved for returns of the

existing settlements in India. It was gratifying to
know that they were constantly on the increase. He
hyped the time would arrive when the settlements
of India would be like the German Confederation,
which united all the parts of that extensive empire, bound
together by a community of interests. They would never
be able to call forth its resources whilst it remained in
detached portions; its resources would be called out when
it formed one vast and comprehensive whole, and he
trusted that the small beginning, for small it was, which
was then about to be made, would be finally consummated
in a far more comprehensive system, and that, commencing
with the reduction of duties, they would end in the con-
solidation and assimilation of them throughout the whole
continent of India.

Mr. COL QUHOUN looked upon the proposed mea-
sure as ono which would ultimately tend to the benefit of
our West Indian as well as our East Indian colonies. The
present state of things, on the cootrary, was injurious to
both colonies. He felt that every protection should now
be abolished. For the sake of the West Indian interest
itself, he desired that there should be introduced into the
markets of this country such an amount of sugar from the
East Indies its would serve as a safety-valve to the Go-
vernment against the strong pressure which demanded a
reduction on the sugar duties; and he believed that the
increased consumption which would follow would be bene-
ficial to the East Indies, and even to the West Indies
themselves. If he looked to the manufacturing interests
of the country also, he felt that the reductim was neces-
sary. Such a measure would bind the East Indies to this
country by the strongest tic th it could unite them, an
identity of interests. How could they otherwise preserve
that mighty empire which contributed so much to the great-
ness of this country? The Russian and the British em-
pires in the East were now fast approaching each other,
mad would soon, perhaps, have to contend for the mastery
there, while it would soon perhaps be a question with a
large portion of the inhabitants of Asia to which they
should attach themselves ; and, under these cir-
cumstances, was it nut of the utmost importance to
convince the people of the Feist, that while the principles
ut Russia were those of commercial monopoly and self.
interest, the policy of Great Britain, on the contrary,
would be large, liberal, and generous—( Hear, hear)—and
that while they introduced into the last the manufactures
of England, as it was the interest of both people, they
would throw open, on the other hand, to the produce of
the East the pole of this country. Such a course mould
riot only advance the cause of eiviliza,iou, but would pro-
mote the best interests of this country. Oa these grounds
he would support the motion of the Right Hon. Gentle
man ; and he did think that, whatever might be said as to
the Right Hon. Gentleman having broken faith with the
West Indies, after the Report that had been published,
and the evidence taken, the Government were right in the
course they had followed.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HAWES said he believed that an undue
protection had hitherto been given to the West Indies,
and the result was, that the inhabitants of those colonies
had neglected the resources which they possessed. They
were, therefore, obliged to have constant recourse to the
assistance of this country. He believed that if the mono-
poly had been long since abolished, they would he free from
the didieulties which never failed to press upon them.
He was confirmed in that opinion when he saw the trade
of the East Indies prosper under a contrary system. That
increasing prosperity had undoubtedly taken place. In
the year 1786, for instance, he found that the East Indies
exported to the value of 57,000/. of indigo; in the year
1809, to the value of 1,105,0001. ; in the year 1830, to the
value of 2,000,000/., and in the year 1840, the value of the
indigo they exported amounted to 2,400,0001. Besides, the
high price of sugar was to be considered in the effect it
would have on the interests of the public. Under the
monopoly and the high price, there was a decline in the
consumption, which led to a diminution in the revenue ;
and the consequence of that diminution would be that
fresh taxation should be imposed upon the people. He
did not think, however, that any thing could justify an
increase of taxation which nould be caused by a monopoly.
lie wished ro call the attention of the House to the rela-
tion between high prices and a diminished consumption.
lie would take for that purpose the concluding months of
the years 1839 and 1840, In July 1839, the consumption
was 10 000 tons, and in July 1640 it was 9,200 tons,
showing a deficiency of nearly 1,000 ; the corresponding
prices were 40s. in the one case, and 555. in the other.
Ia August 1839, the consumption was 12,200 tons, and
in August 1840, it was 7,000, showing a deficiency of more
than 5,000; the corresponding prices were 40s. and 575.
InSeptember 1830, the consumption was 0,600 tons,
and in September 1840, it was 7,200, showing a deficiency
of 2,400; the corresponding prices were 38s. and 51s.
In November 1839, the consumption was 9,900 tons, and
in November 1840, it was 5,800, showing a diminution of
more than 4,000; the corresponding prices were 38s.and 575.
In December 1839 the consumption was 8 300 tons, and
in 1840 it was 5,700, showing a deficiency of 1,600; the
corresponding prices were 375. and 535. It was clear
from that ti,• .I,c diminution of eerenrription arose from
the iecreaseU p ice. He had last year piesi.ni,ed
from the metropolis complaining of the monopoly, and
gating that the high prices which it caused led to adulto.