The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-08 00:00:00

LONDON, SATURDAY, MAY 6, 1841.

IMPERIAL. PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, .211.4 r 7.
Lord PO RTM A N presented a petition from Wellington,
in Somerset, for an alteration in the Poor-laws ; also a
petition from the parish of Christchurch fur the total and
unconditional abolition of Church-rates. In the prayer of
this last.petition his Lordship did not concur.
The Earl of HARE WOOD presented a petition against
any alteration in the sugar duties from the inhabitants of
Port- Royal and other places in Jamaica; and a similar peti-
thn from ceiti,in West India proprietors and others, agreed
to at a public meeting held in the metropolio. The peti-
tioners stated that if Slay.-grown sugar wc►e admitted into
Ergland, the ; roprietors t ithe island of Jamaica would be
unaule to carry on those measares of improvement
which they had lately begun. They also felt
that the contemplated alteration would Le an encourage-
ment to the slave trade a hid' this country bad made such
great sacrifices to suppress.
The Earl of MO UNTCA SHE L presented a petition
to the same effect, agreed to at a public meeting convened
by the Colonial Society held yesterday. The mectirg
was attended by men of all parties, who were unanimous in
their condemnation r f a change in the duties on sugar.
Earl FITZ WILLIAM said that the Noble Lord bad
stated that Whigs, Tories, and Radicali, were unanimous
on the object for which the meeting had been convened;
but he (the Earl of Fitzwiiltam) did not think that such a
subject should be estimated by the principles of mere
party. It was, in teality, a question between the people at
large and a small number of monopolists on the other. In-
dividuals of any party might be influenced on many occa-
sons by unjust and selfish motives.
The Earl cf MOUNTCASHEL denied that the mo-
es of the petitioners were merely ,of an interested nature;
but at the saTae time they claimed a fair protection for
their property. '1 he Noble Earl then presented a petition
from the Island of Antigua, signed by planters, labourers,
and men t,f all classes, ag.dost the importation of slave-
grown sugar into this country, for competition with that
o: the West Indies.

The Earl of RADNOR expressed an opinior, on the
authority of Mr. Gurney, a traveller in the West Indies,
that free-grown sugar could compete with slave-grown
sugar.

The Eail of Al OUNTCA SIIEL said, on the con-
trzoy, that such was the cheßpness of slave-grown sugar
that it could be sent over to this country and ratted, and
afterwards tent back to the West Indies and sold at a lower
rate there than the jree7grovsn sugar.

Lord LYNDHURST presented a petition from t' c
island of St. Vincent, signed by the President of the
liuti.e of Assembly, Members of Council, and other in-
hat itatits, praying that the protection offired to our West
India colonies niignt be continued.

Lord ELLENBOROUGH presentei a similar peti-
tion from the Virgin Islands.
The Marquis of DO WNSHIRE presented a petition,
numerously signed, from the town and neighbour-
hood of Belfast, praying for the abolition of lay pa-
tronage in the Church of Scotland; and petitions from
Athlone and other places in the county of Dawn, to the
same effect ; also a petition from a congregation of Sec( -
ders in the same county, praying that a system of educa-
tion, in which the Bible would be taught, might be hare-
duced into Ireland.

recourse to such a measure merely for self-protection, and
in order to encourage native agriculture. He had no
desire to discuss the whole question ; he thougt it would he
better they should wait till it came expressly under their
consideration, and not bring in discussions night after
night upon the presentation of every petition.
The Earl of R A DNOR obteosed that tic dis-
cussion had been introduced by the Noble Lord op-
posite ( Laid Ashburton), and not by his Noble
Friend ( Earl Fitz william) who had merely presented a
petition. The Noble Duke bad said that the Corn-laws
were passed for the protection of British agriculture; but
they did not in reality /Jou' that protection, as under their
operation the price of corn varied to such an extent as to
be alike injurious to the farmer and the consumer.
The Earl of WAR WICK said that it seemed to him
that the Noble Earl opposite ( Earl Fitzwilliam), by read-
leg the peti im, and by g:ving notice on the subject, had
ins i'ed the present discussion. It was his opinion that the
petitioners had no right to complain that the present Corn-
alws had led to a derangement of the currency ; inas-
much as the advocates for repeal themselves wished for an
alteration in the currency, and he could state from his own
experience that it was expressly on that ground the Corn-
law Repealer; of Manchester agitated the question.
The Marquis of L A NSDO WNE deaied that the mea-
sure proposed by her Majesty's Government was intro-
duced for the purpose of agitating the country. There
was never, in fact, a more unfounded assertion than that.
The Government might be wrong in the views they had
taken on this question. They might, in the pol cy
which they advocated, adopt views that might appear
dangerous to many Noble Lords, but he would say
that there never was a proposition more delibe-
rately introduced on its merits, less suddenly adopted,
or taken up with a more attentive reference to
all the circumstances of the case, than that which had been
now made. Her Majesty's Minister!, for the protection
of trade and of the agricultuie of the country, had found
it necessary, with their eyes open on the subject, and
without a desire to create unnecessary agitation, to in-
troduce a system opposed to that of their predecessors,
and determined on substituting another for it. No per-
sons wished more than they did to see the matter con-
ducted with calmness and with a perfect abstinence from all
appeals to the passions of the multitude. He should
observe, that it was never imputed as a crime
to former Ministers that they had introduced alterations
in the system adopted by other Ministers. Lord Liver-
pool, for instance, had introduced a change which excited
the passions of the country in a violent manner, without
finding his motives for the course pursued questioned by
any one. In like manner Mr. Canning proposed a modi-
fication of the system of Lord Liverpool, while no one
imputed to him that be wished to inflame the fcc'-
ings of the nation. All these eminent persons were
induced to overlzsek the inconvenience of agitation in
the magnitude of tits occasion ; and her Majesty's
Government bai also the:ight the time was come
for the revision of the present system. They were
aware that that should not be rashly or lightly under-
taken, but there were times and occasio'ee connected
with the general commerce of the world which made it ne-
cessary fur nations to review their systems of commercial
pcliey.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH said that the Noble Mar•
quis had denied ti.at the present proposal of the Govern-
ment was undertaken for temporary reasons. He wished,
however, the Noble Marquis would enrich history by stating
the day they came to the resolution they had formed on the
subject.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that it had been
with Ministers the subject of long consideration, and that
it had not teen taken up at a recent period, but had been
an object of much deliberation.
Lord ASHBURTON did not wish to impute to the
Government a desire to excite agitation in the country,
but in his opinion the course they had taken would lead to
that result, whatever might have been their intentions.
A NOBLE LORD on the Opposition benches wished to
know at what period of the Session any notice had been
given, in either House of Parliament, by the Ministry,
which could lead any Member to believe they contemplated
any alteration.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that an intima-
tion to that effect had been.giveri before the Easter holi-
days. 'The notice, however, had been a general one, to
the effect that the whole question of the trade of that
country would soon be brought under the consideration of
Parliament.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, MAY 7.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour.
POLLOC AND GOVAN RAILWAY.

Mr. ALSTON presented two petitions in favour of the
Polloc and Guvan Railway Bill.
Mr. WALLACE presented a petition from 1,638 in.
diiiduals in the neighbourghood c.,f Glasgow against the
Bill.

Mr. ALSTON having then moves the third reading of
the 13111,

Sir G. CLERK said he wished to submit to the House
a close in order to ensure the safety of the inhabitants of
j that part of Glasgow through which the railroad was to
pass by requiring that the railroad should be carried by a
viaduct over the Glasgow and Paisley Turnpike-road.
It would be greatly inconvenient to the inhabitants
of the t awn, that the railroad should be permitted
to pass through that great thoroughfare on a level.
No doubt the promoters of the 13;ll thought they had a
reasonable ground of complaint against those who opposed
it, because that opposition bad only been manifested during
the latter stages, but the fact was, that when the Bill was
first brought in, and until it had been printed and read a
second time, they had no idea of the extended powers in-
tended to be conferred by it. It was true that when the
subject was discussed, the House bad been of opinion that
there was no necessity to refer it back to the Committee on
Standing Orders, but it was net until that period
that the attention of the people of Glasgow
had been called to the undertaking. Had the question
been one of mere private interest he would admit that in
such a stage of the Bill the opponents of it ought to be pre-
cluded from making any alteration, but in the present in-
stance the safety of the inhabitants of Glasgow was con-
cerned, whose lives would be endangered if the railroad
were permitted to pass in the manner proposed. It would,
in fact, be a deplorable public nuisance, and as the parties
principally affected were in the humbler classes of sc-
ciety, the House was bound to take their case into
serious consideration. The Committee had been aware
of the cecessity of granting them protection, and therefore
inserted the clause giving the Company power to carry
the turnpike over the railway. But the road was in fact
a Eir.et, and could nut be reiied without destroying
and damaging property to the amount of 35,0001.
The only way of providing for the public safety
was by insisting on the Company forming a viaduct. He
should therefore move a clause prohibiting any traffic on
the railroad until it should be either carried over the turn-
pike road by a viaduct, or ui der it by a tunnel.
The clause was then brought up.
After a few words from Mr. HASTIE,

Mr. WALLACE said the real state of the case was,
that the existing lire of railway was to be made the me-
dium for conveying three oth,r litres. He complained that
reinter Paisley nor Glasgow had been heard lefcre the
Committee in opposition to the Bill. He had a letter
from an individual residing in the neighbourhood, who
stated that not less than six lives had been already lost
there. What wag the proposal ? Why that in place
of a viaduct the railway should cross the turnpike
road. He would show the House the inconvenience which
was likely to result from such a course by a plan which he
had procured. [The lion, Member here exhibited the
plan to the House amidst cheers and laughter By a
viaduct all the inconvenience would be dune away
with. lie did not believe that a more sel-
fish or unwarrantable job than the present had
ever been brought before the llou'e. If these
powers were wanted for the public interest he would
not care so much, but the fact was that it was a pri-
v ite interest altogether.---(Loud cries of .• Divide, di-
%Pe.") The lion. Gentleman showed a plan of the
various Railways which were proposed to join and carry
their traffic into and along this miserable little line.
What would lion. Members, or persons having property
in Bridge-street, close by, think of a bridge being carried
across it, thereby destroying its trade, and shutting up its
shops, yet that case would be quite analogous to the
proposition contained in this Bill. lie would with plea-
sure give his support to the clause of the lion. Mem-
ber for Stamford.
Mr. li INDLE Y complained of the frequent and viru-
lent opposition given to this Bill. The whole of the
selected Members had agre d upon the clauses as settled
in the Bill. If they were again to he considered and
sealed by the House, they the sooner the system of
selecting Members unacquainted with the locality, there-
fore independent, the better, for it would be a complete
farce and waste of time.
Mr. ALSTON said, as Chairman of the Committee,
and ore of the se
lected Members, he wished to put the
Howe in possessi.rtt of the real facts of tl.is case. In
place of Comp my asking by their Bill for great
powers, they only asked for the power of raising more
money in order to pay off debt`, arid to lay down heavier
and broader rails. The advantages to Glasgow by its
means would be to reduce the price of coal 25 to 30 per
cent. If it was a new railroad he would not c insent to
allow it to cross any road on the level, but that was a power
they already possessed by Act of Parliament, and surely it
was not to be taken ea ay from them in the arbitrary man-
ner prop .sed in the clause of the Hon. Member for Stam-
ford. The selected Members were unanimous in favour of
the proposition made by the promoters of the Bill, to carry
the road over the railway by a bridge.
Mr. LOCKHART supported the clause.
Mr. BROTHERTON said that all the selected Mem-
bers were unanimously in favour of this work, Every
thing that could be thought el had been done to protect
the public.
Mr. HORSMAN opposed the clause.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and tie House
divided, alien there appeared,
For the clause ................... 162
Against it... 5O
Majority' .• -1 12
Other clauses were then added, and the Bill passed.
TINSLEY AND DONCASTER ROAD BILL.
Mr. WRIGHTSON moved the second reading of
Tinsley and Doncaster Road 11.11. The Hoir. Member
made a few observations, which were totally inaudible in
th... gallery.
Sir G .STRICKLAND moved as an amendment
that the- Bill be read a second time that day months.
After a few words from Mr. LA SCELLES and

Mr, CHARLES WOOD,, the Amendment was with
drawn, and the was ordered to be committed.

IPSWICH DOCK BILL.

Sir D. J. NO RRE YS brought up the Report of the
Ipswich Docks Bill.
Mr. SEIEIL moved that the consideration of the report
should be postponed to Friday the 14th May. lie con-
sidered the Bill a most obncaious one, and he was opposed
to the whole system of distinctive duties.
Mr. KELLY was unwilling, in the present state of the
House, to gO into a discussion of the merits of the Bill.
but he thought that the postponement proposed by the
Right lion. Gentleman was too long.
After a few wcris from Mr. LABOUCHE RE, it was
agree) that the further consideration of the Report should
be postponed till Thursday next.
On the motion of Mr. HODGSON HINDE, the
Great North of England Radaay Bill wus read a third
time.

The Henley and Dorchester Road Bill was read a third
time and passed.
Mr. HU TT presented a petition from Hull, praying for
an alteration in the Corn-laws.

Mr. O'CONNELL gave notice, that in the Commit-
tee on the sugar duties he would move a resolution to the
effect that any diminution on the duties of foreign sugar
should be strial% limited unto sug,r the produce of tree
labour, and not to he extended to sugar the produce of
slavery.—(ClTors from the Opposition.)

Colonel SIBTHORP gave 'notice, that, in the Com-
mittee on Simultaneous Estimate:, he could move that no
payment of anv sums of money should be allowed to be
made to Mr. William Vizard.

Mr. GOULBURN gave notice that on Monday next he
should move for a copy of the memorial Presented by the
House of Assembly of Jamaica, on the subject of tba re-
duction of the duty on foreign sugar.

Mr. BARNEBY moved—that the returns ordered b
the House on the 3d of March ou the subject of Ma;
Cozvlies be made TOttliwitit.

CHURCH EXTENSION.

Mr. O'CONNELL begged to ask whether it was the
intention of the Right Hun. Baronet the Member fur the
Unitersity •f Oxford to introduce any measure on the
subject of Courch Extension. He begged a!so to ask,
whether the Right Hon. Baronet could give the House
any information as to the number of additional churches
he meant to propose, and what the probable expense
would he?

Sir R. INGLIS thanked the Hon. and Learned
Member for giving him an opportunity of repeating
in a full House the notice he bad previously given in his
speech, and which he had repeated more formally in tue
votes. It was his intention on Tuesday, the 18th instant,
to call the attention cf the House to the subject
cf. Church Extension. With respect to the number of
churches, and the probable expense, he trusted the House
would suspend its judgment until he brought his motion
forua,d.