The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-23 00:00:00

The question of bounty he considered might be attended to in
e feet years after this. %-!,•. Wyndham said that, he should
never • be contented till the profession of al :,AS was in Oil:
respect put upon the same footing as other callings. He (Mr.
F. Maule) did not think that this could be carried into effect
for sonic time, but he thought in these days of peace by the
measures they would take to improve the condition of the sol-
dier, they would be enabled in a few years to dispense with
the system of giving bounties. There was another subject to
which he wished to call attention before he concluded. What
a benefit would it be to allow those, wino retired from
the service, to go back well satisfied with the treat-
ment they had received. If they could send them
back with good moral habits acquired—with ideas 01
habit and obedience strongly impressed on them, their
example would do more in bringing recruits to the army than
any other measures they could adopt. He was quite sure of
this that the House would give him credit that lie would not
propose any measure for its adoption if he or any of her Ma-
jesty's Government believed that there existee a single source
ef darger, or that it would injure in any way a service, the
success of which he had sincerely at heart. With this feeling
tie trusted that the House would mark with its approbation the
principle of a limited enlistment, and in order that the House
might embody that principle in a legislative enactment, he
would place his Bill before them, with an earnest hope that the
House would see the necessity of giving its support to it.
Sir HOWARD DOUGLAS said that he had, on a former
occasion, voted strongly against this measure, and he had found
no reason to change his opinion. After a service of consider-
able duration, after having had much experience in the prac-
tical working of the present system in every quarter of the
world to which the British arms were carried, it was his delibe-
rate and confirmed opinion that this measure was unnecessary
and ill-timed, and he should, therefore, be reluctantly com-
pelled to withhold his consent to it. But it was not
his intention to meet this measure with a direct nega-
tive, or to propose any amendment. Her Majesty's
Government had determined to try this experiment, and the
illustrious Duke at the head of the army had also acceded
to it. He ( Sir H. Douglas) would, therefore, confine him-
self at present to the mere expression of his dissent, with the
reasons which induced him to come to that decision. He la-
mented the changes that were taking place ; he grieved to see
the spirit of change that was abroad; he lamented the change
that was daily occurring in those commercial regulations—re-
gulations which had raised England to the highest state of great-
ness. He could not concur in the preamble of this Bill, that it
was expedient to make an alteration in the period of enlistment.
He ( Sir Howard Douglas) thought it was inexpedient to
make this alteration. He did not think this change necessary
by any practical, political, constitutional, or statistical consi-
deration. He thought that it could not be justified by ex-
perience or by any rule which might be adopted with
safety. They found no difficulty in recruiting then,
the supply was greater than the demand. —( Hear, hear.)
Ihe army was complete in all its arrangements ; it was in a
perfect state of efficiency, its discipline was most admirable,
and he was happy to say that the moral and social condition of
he soldiery was greatly improved. This measure would be
inconvenient in its working, expensive in its organisation, and
el-timed in its introduction. The Hon. and Gallant Member
hen referred to certain statistical details, to show that
desertions in the army had been less frequent in a state of
extended, than under a limited, enlistment. The measure was
not intended to obviate a scarcity for the stock of the army,
for he had taken care to inform himself upon this point, and
le had ascertained that in the year ending 31st April, 1846,
teere offered themselves for enlistment not less than 20,000,
some of these were rejected ere they came before the medical
efficer, but 16,563 were examined, out of this number 5,143
were rejected, and 11,420 enlisted. Within the present year
in fewer than 24,000 offered themselves for enlist-
ment. The stock of the army, which was com-
posed principally of the children of the soil, was
aelinirable. At least six-tenths of their soldiery had
been agricultural labourers, and as they got up in the scale of
sduration, they proved inferior soldiers. It had been alleged
hat the army was composed of the riff-raff of the country,
that the members were ignorant, illiterate, and vicious. They
mad it to boast that they improved and educated these persons,
Ind returned them to their country better men than they
foOnd them. He found that the great proportion of the
eavalry and line was composed of agricultural labourers; that at
least 643 out of every 1,000 belonged to this class, and they
nade the best soldiers. Advancing in the scale, he found me-
ithanics and artizans, and they were inferior men to the others.
rhen they had ruined tradesmen, shopmen, and shop clerks,
Ind they were still worse, and the highest class of all, profess
•Mnal men, persons educated for the Church, medical students,
aid law licentiates, made the worst of soldiers, and in this
ategory he would particularly place the licentiates of law.
It was said that it was derogatory to the character of freemen
o permit them to enlist for an unlimited period, but he found
hat both history and the best authorities disproved that state-
nent. If the Bill were strictly carried out, he did not doubt
hat there would be a cry got up that they were going to con-
ert England into a military country, but he would leave theory
ind come to what he thought would be the practical ope-
ration, of this Bill in the time of a protracted war. Now had
he system of limited enlistment prevailed during the late war
le would venture to say that England never could have sue-
,eeded in the manner she did. 'inc dispatches of the Dukes of
York and Wellington showed that the successes of that period
sere effected by old soldiers, who had long b: en engaged in the
service, mid he, therefore, had a right to assume that, had the
ule been lima ed enlistment, this country never could have
inaintained the war.—(Hear, hear.) Previous to the year
1813, during the Peninsular war, there were very few enlist-
ments in the British army, and the consequence was, this
iountry had to spend a large sum of money to avert the evils
if a temporary system of enlistment, and to secure the re-enlist-
nent of men whose time of retirement had arrived. The latter
readily consented in the emergency to remain in the army to
iefend the rights of their native land, and had it not been for
'heir previous experience in arms, they never could have
attained the glorious contests they did. He warned Govern-
ment, then, of the mischiefs this bill would inflict upon the
eountry. In the event of another war, they would experience
he sad operations of this Bill upon the marines, while a very
shirt time would show, if its provisions were to be applied to
the Sappers and Miners, that it would entirely destroy the effi •
ciency of that body of men. For his own part, therefore, he
was decidedly averse to any change in the present system. It
would prove daneerous to the Constitution, and might place
the Colonies in jeopardy. He was an advocate for early en-
iistment and training in the army, and had always regretted
[hat military colonization had been neglected by the various
Governments of this country. Rather than take the
steps they were now doing, her Majesty's present
advisers ought to have turned their attention to that
subject, and endeavoured to ascertain if the etpuntry
tnd the army, could not be benefited by introducing improve-
ments into the prevailing system of military colonization.
Let them raise the soldier in the scale of society, and there
would be no want of a better class of men. Let them secure
them rewards and encouragement, and they would invest
that calling with attractions, which would have the
effect of enticing good men into the service of their
country. With regard to punishments, he thought
:hat a soldier should not be sent to prison unless
for some crime of a disgraceful nature. Every slight breach of
.nilitary discipline should not be vis.ted in that manner, the
consequence of which invariably was to degrade those who
vere subjected to it. With respect to the measure before the
House, he thought its effect would be to cause a great diminu-
ion in the number, and the amount of the pensions to be
granted at the termination of the period of service. At this
time, when the army was brought to such a state of efficiency,
to thought that this experiment should have been avoided, as
it would be found unsatisfactory, expensive, and prejudicial to
the interests of the army in its operation.
Colonel REID thought the measure under consideration
would not accomplish its object; secondly, that it was wholly
unnecessary; arid thirdly, that it would impair the physical
efficiency of the army, and create jealousy and dissatis-
faction. Of what avail would the army of this country
have been, even under the guidance of Wellington, if, when
spposed to the great usurper, it had not been composed of
strong men, who, in addition to moral courage, possessed
physical efficiency. He believed, that by adopting a period
sf limited enlistment, one •eighth at least of the force of the
cavalry would be lost to the country. The consequence would
be, that there would be an army of boys instead of an army of
ovally efficient men. He had a perfect horror of an army of
such a nature. He had seen an exhibition of the conduct of
such an army at the siege of Antwerp, where, two sallies
haying been made by the besieged, they destroyed all the
works and entrenchments in a few hours, which would have
taken at least a fortnight to have done had the besiegers
not been panie•stricken and useless as they were
on that occasion.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") He
thought, that if Mr. Wyndham's plans of limited
enlistment were to be carried out, the Government ought at
ieast to carry out the other plans of that gentleman, for provid-
ing more liberal pay, and more liberal pensions to the soldiers.
rhe pension to a private for serving his full time, was at pre-
sent only 6d. a day, and that of a non-commissioned officer Bd.
He thought that at least the minimum pension to the private
soldier should be raised to 9d., anti to the non-commissioned
officer is. He trusted that the subject of more liberal pay and
pensions would receive the fullest consideration of her Majesty's
Government. He thought that by far the better mode of im-
proving the army, would be by the introduction of systems cal-
ulated to improve the social and moral condition of the
soldiers themselves. Let them be treated in such a manner
that they might consider that they were respected by the
country. The country owed much to their valour and to the
hardships which they had undergone in all climates for loner
seasons for the sake of preserving untarnished, the honour and
the interests of the country. With respect to the officers, he
believed that they had it always nearest to their hearts to in-
crease as much as possible the comforts of the soldier, and he
thought that the present Bill would tend to loosen the ties
which existed between the officers and men. He would not,
although he disagreed with the principle of the Bill, oppose its

further progress.-
Sir DE LACY EV ANS did not see in the present measure
any ground for such fears as had been expressed by
the speakers who had preceded him. With respect
to the fear that it would not be safe to go to war with men
who had only been in the service for ten years, he would remind
any Hon. Member who entertained that opinion, that all the
other nations of Europe were of opinion that it was safe to go
to war even at a less period than that. He did not see any
reason to doubt the efficiency of young troops. As to the case
referred to by the Hon. and Gallant Member who last ad-
dressetithe House, of the young men being driven from the
enclies at Antwerp, he had seen many veteran soldiers who
had oaten done the same thing. At St. S: bastion they did so,
but they rallied again, and he had often seen many young troops
if not outstrip at least equal the valour of more veteran troops.
As to the perfection of the army in the field, it did not depend
upon one or two years' service. Let them look into the dis-
patches of the Duke of Wellington during the Peninsular war,
and they would find that he said that the men under hi
s com-
mand were fit to beat any army in the world, but that
that he could not
conduct was extremely bad ; so much so,
trust a detachment away from him, as they would roh, murder,
and plunder in every direction. He called them a band of
robbers. So much for the morality of an efficient army.—
( Hear. heir ) The Duke of Wellington had acquiesced in
the measure, and he was confident that he would not have
done so had he one tithe of the fears that the Hon. and Gallant
\ [ember had. If they wanted to make the army popular
among the people they should do so not only among the youths,
but among fathers and mothers and sisters. They should see
that their friends came back to them after ten or eleven years.
—( Hear, hear.) That would be the way to make the service
sought after. He was sorry that the advantages of a Bill
which promised so much should be delayed from coming into
operation. If ten or twelve thousand men came back to the
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tries possessed it, and they would find that, in proportion as
foreign Governments desired to put down liberty, they also put
down the national guard.
Colonel T. WOOD said, that he did not think that the Hon.
Gentleman had fairly described that army where he had so
honourably and gallantly served. If he compared the accounts
of other armies with those of our own he would find how far
tki latter were superior. He was more in favour of Mr.
Wyndham's plan than any he bad ever heard proposed; under
that plan the soldier who served seven years was entitled to a
penny a day, and at the end of fourteen years he was entitled
to his discharge, with a pension of fivepence a day. The
present measure was not of a permanent character, it did not
hold out the indueement that it should ; and from these
reasons he regretted that Mr. Wyndham's plan had been aban-
doned. As there was no opposition to the Bill he would not
give it any, as it was a step in the right direction.
Colonel LINDSAY objected to the Bill, as it did not pro-
vide for the old soldiers who were the depositaries of the dis-