The Sun.
London, England, 1847-01-30 00:00:00

imPERTAT, P4Pl',l,AmFN'r

ROUSE OF LORDS, Jan. 29.
The Lord Chancellor took his seat on the Woolsack
at Five o'clock.
IMMIGRATION OF IRISH PAUPERS.
Eat! FITZWILLIAM said that he had observed, on
the other evening, that a great impression had been
made by the statement of his Net)le sod
Learned Friend who sat opposite (Lord Breughaie)
of the great number of Irish poor who had recently
been relieved in Liverpool. He was sure that their
Lordships must be aware that those poor who had re-
cently arrived in Liverpool had not stayed there.—(l.ord
Brougham—" Oh no, no 1") They were not resident
there. Therefore let not Noble Lords, who were uncon-
nected with Lancashire, imagine that they could get off
scot free.
Lord BROUGHAM—True, they might overrun the
West Riding.—(Laughter.)
Zed FITZWILLIAM—They would, go on to Man-
chester ; they would go through the East Riding on to
Lincolnshire, and to Norfolk ; and the landlords of Suf-
folk would not escape the infliction. Let, them, there-
fore, not imagine that the evil was removed
from their doors. This Irish distress was not
local one ; it, would affect the whole empire;
and there vitas no way, he imagined, in which
he could more strongly display the evil than by moving
for an official return on that. He would, therefore, move
for a return of the number of persons, distinguishing
men, women, and children, who had been relieved as
casual poor in the town of Liverpool, from the Ist Janu-
ary, 1847, distinguishing also the English, Scotch, and
Irish; and with respect to the Irish distinguishing those
resident at Liverpool from those who had recently
arrived. He moved also for a similar return from
Bristol.
Lord BROUGHAM—And Glasgow and Greenock.
Glasgow is much worse than Liverpool.
Lord MONTEAGLE—Say the ports on the Clyde.
Earl FITZWILLIAM—And the ports on the Clyde ;
also a similar return for the corresponding period of 1846.
Lord BROUGHAM said, since he had last addressed
their Lordships upon this painful subject, he had received
a letter from a gentleman at Liverpool, named Horseley,
a large wholesale warehouseman there, in which he stated
that from the reports in the newspapers he had seen
that some observations were addressed by him (Lord
Brougham) to their Lordslips upon the subject of the
great influx of Irish paupers to Liverpool. He stated in
his letter that the number of persons relieved on Thurs-
day the 22d amounted to 22,640. What, the writer went on
to say, would be the fearful increase might be easily con •
jectured. The poor rate at present levied was 2s. 3-id.
in the pound, and he himself paid 901. for his portion
of the poor rate. A tabular statement was also enclosed
showing the amount of the relief from the 18th to the
26th inclusive. He would not trouble the House with
the details of each day, but the total number
amounted to 173,538. Soup rations amounted to between
7,000 and 8,000. The amount of out-door relief was
also considerably increased. The increase at present
amounted to 408/., of this, 378/. had been expended
upon Irish paupers. This would give their Lordship:
a pretty tolerable indsx of the propOrtion of Irish
paupers in Liverpool. The result was that
nineteen twentieths of the pauper population
were Irish paupers. This was a subject which
required great delicacy in its management. If they
were to go on month after month relieving the people at
this rate, what would be the result ? He had seen a
letter this morning from a friend of his who had re•
ceived it from his bailiff in Ireland, stating that it was
quite impossible to go on with the cultivation of land, as at
that moment he required 100 labourers, and could not get
them, they being all too anxious to obtain employment
on the public works, because they well knew that they
could get good pay for it, while the value of their
work was not worth 2d. It was clear that the Irish
pauper did not like work. He regarded with
apprehension the state giving money by mil-
lions to the people for these useless works.
Ile knew it might be said, how cruel, not to give
the public money to these starving people for doing
nothing. It had been said that men were exceedingly
generous of things when they were other people's
money and their own advice. This adage applied very
well to these sentimental people, who were so fond
of blaming persons who were opposing this squandering
of the public money. They were, however, the best
friends to the labourers themselves, who told them not
to Support a system which was calculated to make them
Mendicantsupon the British public, and take away from
them all self reliance upon their own exertions. He
hadlt one subject to which he would briefly allude.
had been stated in the report of his speech,
of last night that he had said that there was a society
engaged in the work of proselytizing the Catholic pau-
ptheirnsi.n Ireland. He (Lord brougham) said no such
g , what lie said wrs, that a letter was written by a
v eweni
ur
hdbe g
hnet I e
statedm , wthhoaste nameit
d be an
inwohuel wouldno t mention,
opportunity for members of Protestant
es
to subscribe a sum of 20,000/. b
e
mis-
sion
to promulgate the tenets to
of excellenteprxupteeantdaendtiaimn.a
Thereasons why the Rev. Gentleman considered the present
a favourable opportunity, were, as he hdadhstated,lthat
the Roman Catholic peasantry
had
conciliated and their prejudices
removead tnoeild'oufebet itaogas great degree by the generous relief which had
been afforded so promptly in the time of
their severe distresses by the Protestants of England.
He had no doubt that the proceedin of the Reverend
Gentlemen were well intended, but hegs should try at the
proper time when the circumstances were more favourable
to overcome, what he (Lord Brougham) considered the
grievous errors, political, moral, and religious, of popery,
by the introduction of the principles of Protestantism,, and the circulating of the scriptures. He objected,
however, to the present opportunity being taken ad-
vantage of, in order to forward the Protestant faith.
Earl FITZWILLIAM was of opinion that unless the
relief committees of the district from which the
letter referred to by the Noble and Learned Lord, acted
in a different manner to what the relief committees did
elsewhere, he did not see how the evils complained of
could arise to any great extent. If a proprietor or
farmer wanted labourers and could not get them in the ,
ordinary way, it be applied to the relief committee, there
Was no doubt that they would discharge as many from
the public works as would be required for that purpose.
There was no doubt that that the labourers preferred
employment on the roads to the ordinary em-
ployment, as the rate of wages was higher.
still the relief committee had the power of regulating
this to a great extent. He had received
a letter from one of the bailiffs of his estates in Ireland
the other day, from which it appeared that the
wages paid by the farmers was eightpence a day. The
wages paid by his bailiff was one shilling a
day, while the relief committee paid from thirteen
to fourteen pence a day; so that the labourers
preferred his (Lord Fitz william's) employment to the
farmers', and the relief-committee to both. He was not
anuch alarmed as to anything that had transpired up to
this period, as little had been going forward in the cul-
tivation of the land, but as February and March were
the principal months for cultivation, and, this state of
things continued, he would have greater apprehension
that there would not be sufficient labourers found to cul-
tivate the soil.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord BEAUMONT was of opinion that a Select Com-
mittee on the operation of the Law of Settlement should
be appointed by their Lordships, as well as the one
which had been appointed by the Lower House. He
thought this was necessary, as the most erroneous impres-
sions prevailed as to the operation of the Law of Settle-
ment pasr,ted last year.
The Earl of ROI)EN wished to know how far the
question of the Noble Lord had been replied to, and how
far it was the intention of the Ministry to
amend the Labour-Rate Act of last seession. By
that Act it was competent for the farmer to apply
to the Board of Works for any number of la-
bourers he might require. By that Act the labourers
were under the direction of the Board of Public Works,
and if any farmer required labourers, he had nothing to
do but to apply to that Board. But what was the fact
of the case? Supposing a farmer wanted labourers on
his farm,, would he apply to that Beard ? He might do
so, but if he lived in a lonely part of the country,
or if he resided in a thatched house, he never could
depend upon his life being safe for an hour, should he
employ any labourer who was not patronised by the
secret as sociations. He thought that the Government
ought to lee warned by the extent of the effect to which
this Act went, and he trusted that some measures would
be taken to amend its provisions. One thing of which he
had to cotnplain was, that occasion had been taken to
sow religious jealousies. It had been stated that a hope
was entertained that this visitation would be beneficial
in promoting the Protestant faith, and thus knitting
the interests of that country with this, one of the great-
est adva stages, as he cen2eiyed, derivable f. om this cala-
mity, and one of the greatest consolations, arose from
the fact that all religious differences were sunk in the
cowmen (muse of charity. The calamity existed, and
they coulel not hinder it. and the union of political and
religious feeling was the greatest consolation that any
one coteld possibly enjoy under • the infliction
was the feeling that existed on this point. If they spent
thousands; upon thou-ands they would not prevent it,
and he regretted therefore the more on those two ac-
counts that the name of a gentleman had been men-
tioned by the Noble Lord who had just sat down with-
out that ;respect to it which was entitled. It had been
stated that this was a good opportunity for
uniting Ireland with England, and making converts
to Protestantism. With this assertion had he joined
the name of:a gentleman whose best answer to the
attack vias the history of his lite. There was not a
mart higher in the estimation of those with whom
Ili had, to deal, not one whose conduct under ti at
difficulty would have been more worthy of praise; no
one whose character more combined the character of
the geneleman and the clergyman than that of Mr.
Ilickerste?th. His character was fully established in this
7untrY, and no one would regret more than that gen
Leman. et a time when all religious differences were
suok under the sufferings of the common calamity, if his
Observations serve to be made a cause of difference be-
tween the two countries.
few Lord BROUG lIAM would exceedingly regret if a
words of his were to be considered as originating
any atte.el; upon the excellent clergyman to whom his
No
ble Pr end had alluded, for he felt convinced that Any
oe
servcei such as he had been represented to ha% e made
would only be a cause of increased misery in Ireland,
and Lead to a greater breach between the professions
of the two religions then new existed.
UNION WORKHOUSES AND ruE DUBLIN
POLIi 'E.
the The Marquis of LANSDOWNE laid upon the table
returns of the expediture in these two departments.
SPANISH MARRIAGES. - there The Earl of ABERDEEN wished to ask ;bother
was any intention un the part of the Government
1° lay on the table the last dispatch which had been rc-
cnei_ved, from. the Marquis of Normauby with respect to
12.11111311 martiages. It appeared to him but reason-