The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-27 00:00:00

the distillers themselves complained of. He should be
as glad as any Hon. Member in that House, if the re-
ductions sought for by the distillers of this country
could be conceded, but he feared that the sanguine ex-
pectations of the Noble Lord would not be justified by
the result. The Noble Lord had represented
in very lively colours the fears which were
entertained by the home. manufacturer for the competi-
tion which might be 'given by the colonial producer, hut
these fears he consie.gered were greatly exaggerated, and
without foundatiore. lie considered that these fears were
exaggerated, with a view to meet the opinions of
persons who differed from him, he had increased the
differential Ctuty to a higher amount than he had previ-
ously intended, and one reason for adopting this course
was undor;ntedly that he might meet less opposition in
CommiV.ee. If he established that the producer in any
part of the country had nothing to fear from foreign
corepetition, then he held that he had established his
(ease in all parts of the country. for the English, Irish,
and Scotch distillers stood precisely on the same ground.
Ile had no great faith in the statements put forth
from time to time by perties interested in the manu-
facture of British spirits, for he thought that they had
exhibited great ignorance on the subject. In the year
1830, when the Earl of Ripon was Chancellor of the
Exchequer, the differential duty was 18d. per gallon, and
the distillers then alleged that they paid 9d. for the ex-
tra price of corn, thus showing that 9d..was the amount
of protection afforded them, and they were satisfied at
the lime with that amount of protection.—(Hear, hear.)
He had received several statements from the distillers of
this country, in which they suggested that Is. per gallon
would be an equitebte amount of differential duty, and
he confessed that he was somewhat amazed to hear his
Noble Friend come down and urge grievances of a
greater magnitude than even they themselves did. His
Noble Friend had stated the " decreases" in the home
stock at 3d. 4-10ths per gallon. Now be held an excise
return which showed that in the stock of six of the
largest distillers the decrease did not Equal h 1. per gal
lon. He held similar returns from Scotland and Ire-
land. There was still more remarkable evidence on the
subject. In 1842 the drawback of malt spirits in Ireland
was altogether repealed, and the quantity manufactured
increased very much. Scotland had still, however, a
drawback of 811. per gallon, and yet with that drawback
they were enabled to compete with—and successfully
compete with—the Irish distiller, who had no drawback.
In 1840, the quantity of spirit exported from
Scotland to Ireland was 427,000 gallons; in 1842
it was 432,000 gallons ; in 1845 it was 507,000
gallons ; and in 1846 it was 524,000 gallons.
There were complaints made by England and Ireland as
to the loss upon excise restriction. He admitted that
these was some loss, but not the extent of 4d. per gallon,
as Mated by the English, or 6d. as stated by the Irish.
The law being the same in both countries, the loss must
naturally be the same. He could not, however admit
that the loss was anything near the amount stated by
the Noble Lord. With regard to the question of de-
creases, he had the statement of themselves, and it was
proved that in England and Scotland, the amount alto-
gether was 3/d. That being the case, he thought it
would be properly met by allowing them a differential
duty of 6d., but he thought that the distillers
themselves would be satisfied with a duty of 91,

which was the maximum duty that would ever be
Placed upon rum as a differential duty. In
the year 1845, the whole quantity of spirits
consumed in the Hatted Kingdom was 26,672,000 gals.,
and of that 2,400,000 gals. were rum, all the rest being
British spirits. Conl d the duty on so small an article of
import materially aff tct the interests of the distillers of
this country ? The fear of such an injury was one of
the lamest that could be imagined, for the interests of
all those concerned w ere, as he had shown, to be pro-
perly protected. Those who would be mostly benefited
by the measure were the West Indians, and he did not
think that it would be by any means so great a boon to
them as they anticipated. He should, therefore, oppose
the motion of the Noble Lord.
Mr. CALLAGHAN said that the House should receive
with caution the statement made by the Right Hon.
Gentleman with regard to Ireland. Ile wished to re-
mark upon some points of that statement. The circum-
stances of England and Ireland. were such, that if the
English distillers were to consent to receive 6d., 9d., or
ls. as a differential duty, that arrangement would not
do for the Irish, who claimed fa duty of ls. 6d. The
cost of rum in Calcutta was from Is. 7d. to ls. Bd. per
imperial proof gallon, and the export was increasing in
quantity. From the 31st of .October of 1842, to the
same period in 1843, the qus.n tity exported from Cal-
cutta was 560,000 gallons, ana 1 in the year 1845 to
1846, it was respectively 600,0.00 to 706,000 gallons.
The Irish distillers had further t, complain that this re-
duction came on them suddenly ; on which point the
Right Hon. Gentleman the Chan cellor of the Excheqtur
did not think at all.

Mr. BERNAL did not think the colonial interests
had been well or equitably treated on the present occa-
-8!°11. He thought the case was one beset with difficul-
,:rs ; but after the mo-t careful, consideration of every-
thing connected with it, the gireatest reduction which
'oe Chancellor felt himself boun d to make was sixpence
Per gallon. There were just eight proper distilleries in
England ; in Scotland the treg le was shared by 150 ;
but in Ireland he could not say how many there
were. The trade, however, in England was an
4,121141 - With regard to
I;be colonies, he thought
all;e‘ they had nothing to, do with the pros-
tiller c the fiscal duti es on the home
di the If these duties press. d hard upon the home
stiller let them be removed ; but they must look to
into
justice of the question. And if they did not enter
0 the grievances of the col anies, he denied their right
to look to the pressure of tb.e fiscal duties on the home
distillers. He protested a gainst sending the matter
again to a Select Committee., It had been investigated
over and over again, and he. did not see what they could
gain by doing so. He did not wish that any injustice
should be committed on any class of her Majesty's sub-
jects, but he did not think the proposition now made
would tend to throw any additional light on the subject.
lie begged to ask them whether, last session, it was
not argued over and over again, that if the free-trade
Principles were conceded on sugar, they would be ex-
tended to the rum producers of the West Indies? He
contended now, that on every principle of justice such
an extension ought to be made. What he would say to
the sister countries would. be, show me how much you
suffer from the duty upon malt, and by so much, and
no more, shall be the discriminating duty charged be-
tween the foreign and home producer; for as to the case
of England, Scotland, and Ireland, he must say that
the discriminating difference between the liquor there
Produced and that produced in the colonies, ought to be
the amount of the duty charged upon malt, independent
of the duty on the liquor produced from it. He stood
there, not merely as an English, or an Irish, or a Scotch
representative, as the case might be; he stood there as
t.ihe representative of the clonial subjects also, and he
°emended for them equal rights and privileges.
Mr. GROGAN said he would second the feeling expressed
9, the lion. Gentleman who had just sat down, for he did not
rise as an Irish Member to ask any preference for the Irish
distillers over the colonial producers. But what he deprecated
in that Hon. Gentleman's speech, was the peculiar burdens
tinder which the Irish distillers laboured, and that was the
Lies'? to which he (Mr. Grogan) would confine himself
""ri if every other charge was assumed to be equal in the
ease of the Irish and the colonial producer, the raw materials
from which the liquor was produced differed most signally in
Price. That was an element deserving of attention in the
calculation. But then, proceeding onwards from the raw ma•
terial, the mechanical means and the expense of production
ceserved next the attention of the House; for whatever
,fleienee, ingenuity, or wealth could add in assisting to produce
the liquor the colonial producer could make use of them ail.
;3,M was that the case with the Irish distiller ? Why, from
the
time the first stone of the establishment was laid down till
'"e moment when the cask of liquor was sent out, the Excise
interfered and trammelled him in every movement. Yet the
17°11- Gentleman had said that 6d., as it was formerly, and
9d., was not sufficient protection. But he begged to re-
;wad that Hon. Gentleman that the actual reduction
is England would just be 91, and no more;
whilstT in Ireland, though the reduction proposed • was
also 9d., it actually turned out to be ss. 3d. But the Irish
tailless conducted their processes at very great risk and very
great loss, on account of the impediments opposed in their way
, the excise. They could not brew and distil at the same
rime, and the loss occasioned by this impediment in the mate-
necessary, which were wasted by the delay, was admitted
all sides. Now, again, were they allowed to use those mix-
tares which they believed would be beneficial in working off
theirt processes of distillation. Another great loss arose
"m the waste occasioned in the storing of bonded
saiirits. He would just direct the attention of the
!louse to a single instance. A friend of his
in May of the year 1842, stored six puncheons of whisky,
containing 660 gallons 25 overproef in the Queen's stores,
Dublin ; and in the month of May, 1846, when duty was paid
aeon them, the puncheons had to be filled up and the decrease
wks found to be just eight gallons upon three of them. That
was a very considerable loss that fell upon the Irish distiller.
• Mr. BOUVERIE said that as the intention was sa to
llPPortion the duties that they should not press too severely on
:In clan, the measure of the Right Hon. Baronet did not meet
igielso object, for it appeared to him to press too severely on the
t.ish distiller. There were two classes of spirits
to stilled in this country, namely, from raw grain and
si malt. In Scotland, the great proportion of spirits
iaaaafactured was from malt, the consumption being
that times the amount of grain liquor. But the Chancellor of
snaltE„xchrquer said that the better price received for the
an "9,113 r, as compared with the lesser price of grain, gave
~,Nutvalent for the increased duty. But was this the case
'd'elih foreign rum ? If the raw grain distiller was entitled to the
fa.re.treased duty on his one eleventh of malt used in the mann-
ecare of his spirit, the distiller who used malt entirely was
'tied to the same decrease an his eleven-elevenths of malt.
i'leor these reasons he would oppose the measure of the Right
4r Baronet.
Alen• FORBES contended that extraordinary advantages had
given to the colonial producers by the measure of the
'4 Hon. Baronet. The Noble Lord, the Member for Lynn,
ago aske for the aointen of a committe some six weeks
tll a d and if the Chancellor oft the Exchequere
had then granted
a enntrnittee, the question would have been by this time set
ti° St. The Hon. ember felt that an inquiry into the opera-
th,re M
°f the Exc se law
i was necessary, and he should support
tint otion of the Noble Lord.
fre,„l%, MOFFATT said that he had heard many complaints
'tile. Irish Members of the want of protection to distillers
thattherr country, but he really thought that they did not know
tee,,i_nwn interest. He thought that an equalisation of the pro-
their's! to Irish produce and colonial spirits would be
•most for
from benefit. They ought to be enabled to sell their spirits
pow
in the same manner as the colonial rum—as the
tmeih of that permission enforced the consumption of a very
the °'esorne article, and, at the same time, did an injustice to
Le
zroducer.
o, •„/LkRKLY said that he thought that the English and
hadynstillers would have better consulted their own interests
osißina_ej consented to receive the protection of 6d. per gallon as •
R0141'427 proposed under this Bill. That amount alone—
rtil in 'Ten their annual produce of 24,000,C00 gallons—give
long rile 01'600,000/. A ire:), considerable revenue after the
king they had enjoyed. The distillers of the three
heal uotn had long been considered as the supports and strong-
corepetirtra°n°"lY' and they had naturally tried to hinder any
esly , len by their brother distillers in the colonies. The
,i,ate_iestion that remained for the Hoes. to sseertain WIS.
(builio`41,(10111 of d!r,ct ,:•1 upon (:
he ar• It, his ovinion iu gallon in.Eu land ix.uia
eh tnPle protection tor the— distillers,.l' for he thought that the
ftltte„ll°.r of the Exchequer had sufficiently shown, in re-
° ‘uelm exaggerations, that they did not require any more.