The Sun.
London, England, 1823-05-13 00:00:00

hOUSE OF COMMONS.

The Deputy Usher, of the Black Rod euromotted the House
to the House of Peers.

The SPEAKER, on his return, stated the Royal Assent to
have been given by Commission to the Warehousing Rill, and
several private-bills.

SOUTHAMPTON PETITION.

Mr. JA H %' I 5 presented a petition from Owners anti Occu.
piers of Land in the County of Southampton., complaining of
Agricultural distress, and praying for a Reform in Parliament,
and an equitable arrangement with respect to the Palk :Debt
and Church property.
Bir T. BA HINU supported the petition, which hail been
voted at one of the mast ntutierouttly and mast orderly courti,
meetings he had ever seen. It was often said that the driers Of
that House were always wide open to all petitions, hut this van
of little importance if the people were prevented .by ptrsons
without from approaching their doors. This foul been at.
tempted in the present instance, but in vain. The Sherif
had declared that he commit:red it to be inconsistent with his
duty to call the meeting desired. In consequence of this he
(sir T. Baring) had given his ranee, in conjunctinn with four

.tte.t 114dr:stets of the county, to authorize the meeting. He
(.oeictisi to the arrangeinent which this petition called for with
..:,;spett to Church property. He could wish some changes
...made in the system, which would have the effect of binding the
--Clergy and those under their ministry, more closely together
fry 'affection and good will, but he could agree to no seizure of
-..:hurcit property, as he considered the. Clergy to have' suffered
as touch as any other class of persons, from the circumstances
f the times.
,tlr,-.Ctift WEN spoke in favour of the Petition. Agricul-
;MT had experienced some relict' from the advanced prices, but
.:he was of opinion ti-at funded property ought to contribute to
the support of the poor.
Mr. ,RICA RDO anticipated no permanent good from the
. ad vaneed7prices of agricultural produce. - He thought the whole
• system Of our • corn laws ought -to be revived, to guard against
-those ruinous . fin eatations in price which were now taking place.
It Was said the famiholder ought to he taxed for the support of
-the poor. This would have been fair if it had been stated. at
-the tune of. negocituing the loans, hut it was not fair to pro-
•pose it now, after bargaining in the first. instance that the inte-
rest which the lenders were to rec,tive should be free from all
:imPosts. Had a different course been taken at the first could
any man believe that the Government could have raised loans
.for die public service on terms like those on which they had
-beer. obtained?
Mr. BENETT was of opinion that the low price of corn had
-caused, perhlips, as Much wheat to be consumed in eight months
as Would, -under other circumstances, have sufficed for a year.
But with the currency in its present state, it was visionary to
expect that the-price of wheat would exceed five anti forty, or
from that to fifty shillings the quarter.
Mr, PHI MAPS strongly censured the mischievous tendency
of. the poor laws.
Mr. MONCK disapproved of a general seizure of church
lands, but he thought those in the gift of the Crown, or in that
of the-Lord Chancellor, might be properly sold for the public"'
benefit. For tended property, he did not wish to see it made
to contribute to the support of the poor, as he was glad to see
one descrip6rin of wealth exempted froM the grasp of the Poor
Laws. Those laws ought to be revised, for he was convinced
that the more they gave to the poor, the more they might give,
under the present system. •
' 'Mr. WHITMORE had not the least wish to see corn rise
hi,gh, as he was convinced that if he did so, it would only rise
to fall again, and involve many in. distress and ruin. •
Mr. CITRWEN explained.
sir. T. LETII BRIDGE commended the Magistrates who
had sanctioned the Meeting at which the present petition was
voted, after the Sheriff had refused to call one. - He complain-
• ed oldie poor laws, which threw four-fifths of the burthen of
2niaintaning the poor em the land. This had never been origi-
nally intended. Ile was sure when the system was framed,
• • that the Legislators of that day intended the sums necessary
for' the maintenance of the poor should be levied on all pro-
perty.. This ought to be done now ; for it ought to be remem-
bered, that the landed interest, in consideration of what they
contributed to the support of the poor, were not exempted from
other burdens, and had, in common with their fellow-subjects,
been compelled to pay ten per cent. to the Property Tax. Ile
*Us surprised that no 'substantial measure had yet been
brought forward to effect a complete revision of our poor
laws, and, indeed„of our whole system of taxation. He ob..
jected less to the amount of the taxes, than to the manner in
which they were raised, which took the poor man's money,
• and frequently suffered the rich to escape without contri-
-bnting.
• • Mr. F. PALMER-spoke in favour of the Petition, and was
•: of opinion that if any of the expressions which it contained, were
thought too strong, this ought to be overlooked, in consi-
-deration of the circumstances under which the meeting had
~been held. . _ .

Lord PALMERSTON stated the Sheriff; in refusing the
meeting, td hsve been only influenced by a sense of duty, and
-had acted on his Own judgment. The lion. Baronet (Sir T.
Baring) might differ from him as to whether the Sheriff had
acted wisely or not, but he had acted from no improper motive.
The requisition kid not been numerously signed by the lead-
ing men of the ceunty. The name of the Hon. Baronet was
rot to it. If it had been, he doubted not the Sheriff would
:halte complied with therecoisition.
Sir T. BARING described the petition to have been signed
by 600 per Sons all of whom held property in the county. If
'-few men of title, or few Landed Proprietors had given their
signatures, this did not seem to him to authorize the refusal of
the Sheriff; as he was of opinion the people ought to be encou-
raged to petition.
The peution was read, and ordered to be printed.
Mr. .1 RV IS presented a petition front Alton, praying the
repeal of the Duties on Coals—Ordered to be printed.
SLAVER V. • • -

Mr. A. CA M PllET,C;;;;;el7teaii petition front a body of
lArest India Planters residing in London, against the content-
plated measure for the Abolition of Slavery.—Ordered to be
printed.
.S. ir.l. GRAHAM presented a petition from the Inhabitants
,-of Carlisle, very numerously signed, praying for the Abolition
.of Slavery.
, Sir L COFFIN said there had been many petitions present-
ed in favour of the Abolition of Slavery, but none of them pro-
posed to give compensation to the owners of Slaves : and none
of them pointed out the measure by which eight hundred thou-
sand persons were to be supported, who, if slavery were abo-
lished, would be unable to maintain themselves. Were such a
measure rashly adopted, it would probably lead to a bloody
struggle between the blacks and the whites like that which bad
been witnes3cd in St. Domingo. He was no friend to slavery—
he wished that a slave had never been seen—but looking to
the evils which must follow in the train of a measure like that
now proposed to be introduced, he should give it, whenever it
came before the "louse, his most decided negative.
Mr. CLIRAVEN was in -favour of the Abolition of Slavery,
as he thought. it would prove beneficial to the Planters them-
selves.
. . .

. Mr. MANSFIELD thought it right to state that the present
.petitioners declared themselves willing to bear their share of
any burden which might he enforced, for the purpose of car.
• .rying the Abolition of Slavery into effect.
Mr. BARING was of opinion the subject ought not then to
'be debated, as its 'discussion might lead to the most serious
consequences. .Some years ago, it would be remembered, an
.insurrection had broken out at .Itarbadoes, on a mere rumour
that Mr. Wilberforce had .emancipated them, and many lives
were lost before it was put down.- Nothing could be more
convenient than to have this notice Standing on their books
from week - to week, as this, of all subjects, was that which
.ought at once to be taken up and disposed of, as by keeping
those whom it most hcarly affected in suspense, it might pos-
sibly. eventually excite them to attempt nothing less than u
general mitsitacre.-
The (.31ANCELLOR of the. EXCHEQUER concurred
-with the Hon. Gentleman who had just spoken, in objecting to
• the premature discussiou of this subject. It was, however, no
• more than justice to the Hon. Gentleman who had given no.
Aiee of a motion respecting it, to say that Government was to
blame, if blame attached any where for the delay which had so
Occurred in bringing it forward, as it had been put off for their
.accommodation. The last ptistponement was on account of the
Inquiry which the House had thought it right to institute. On
.Thursday, the day for which it now stood, he had no doubt it
would be brought MU-
. Mr. F. BUXTON was much obliged to the Right lion.
41entleinan for' the explanation which he had made to the
flousc, and announced it to be ins intention not to give way to
any other motion err Thursday. •
An lion. 11 r Nalco inquired what would be the nature of
~the rmoltttioto; to he moved by the lion. Gentleman.
nux.ToN begged to decline answering the question
At present.—,The Petition was ordered to be printed.
VASSPOWP S,'I74)pPED--.I4ETTERS OPENED.

Mr. ~ secretary (A NN laid ow the table of the House
-.-;certain .Papers relative to the Slave Trade. -
Mr. if 0111101.iSE did not know that he could take a better
-;.-oceasion n,,;; ;:lo present to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman a
question, •i trutl to know from the Right [lnn. Secretary
of State t; ; Affairs, if he were award that an Officer of
;the to whom be had lately granted his pass-
port to preceed t; ;•.,rt'u, on arriving at Rome; could not get
his passport sigmal. by the Neapolitan Minister, but Was at
once told that ho would. not be allowed to go through the Nea-
- ,politan terrialry.—(Hear 0-11 e HobbOuse) had brought
this subject forwards ;isle felt himself in some degree respon.
...slide for. the treatment to which this Gentleman had been ex.
posed. The Gentleman had been inclined to travel with'
the French Ambassador's passport ; but to guard against
any accident. he (Mr. Hobhouse) advised that he should
obtain the ?assport of the. Right Hon. Gentleman, as he knew
that that of the Bri ish Minister had hitherto been trea:ted with
the greate/-1 ruspect. The House would easily conceive how
the Geotleman had bear surprised to find 'himself thus detained
at Roma, and actually unable to proceed. The Gentleman
begged to Iznow the reasons which existed fbr refusing him the
expected permission. The Neapolitan Minister declined giv-
ing bill: any, but scrupled not to say he must prosecute his
jourocy by some otivr route. The Gentleman was now at
Ancona, from which plaCe he proposed to embark for the island
•of Corfu. The . whose case he had thus brought
forward was Captain lilaquiere of the British Navy. While
on big if it were not taking too much a liberty with the
Night ifonour.tble Secretary, he would beg to ask him an.
.other ouestioa.. Was he aware that since the invasion of
the Peaiositla by • the French, time commercial intercourse
with this country had been soriously interrupted? A rner,..l
eanti!o house last week, fond that its correspondent's let. t
-tee 11x1 opened, and instead of the papers which were I
exp..to- the clailiat-ion of the Trappist and that of the 1
I ,re •
'Duke lad been enclosed and forwarded, but not
.one word of the intended coinimmiCation had been received.—

Treatment like this was, perfectly new from one of the parties
engaged in a war to a neutral Power. Whatever the differences
between France and Spain, it became the duty of the British
Government to take care that our commerce should not be thus
interrupted, and so great an insult as this ought not to pass
unnoticed. When he stated that the Firm, to which the papers
in question had been addressed, was that of Messrs. Bowrin,,,
the House would feel perhaps, that it was probable the French
dificer, who had examined the letter, in consequence of what
had lately occurred with regard to Mr. Bowring, thought it
would be an exceedingly good joke to detain any thing on its
way to a person of that name, and to send in its place the pro-
clamations which he had mentioned. The case,. however, ap-
peared to him one of serious importance, and he trusted the
Right Hon. Gentleman would be of the same opinion._

Mr. Secretary CA N N ING said, with respect to the first ques-
tion, he had certainly received information of the facts from
Mr. fils9uire himself, who had written to him on the subject,-
of the Neapolitan Minister refusing to sign his passport at
Rome. lie (Mr. Canning) was utterly at a loss to conceive on
what grounds such refusal had been given, and he had im-
mediately done all that he could do at present, by writing on
the same day to our Minister at Naples, instructing him to ask
the cause of that of which Mr. Blaquire bad complained...-
With respect to the second question, it was quite new to him.
In general since the commencement of the war in the Penin.
sula, be had been surprised at the little interruption which
commerce had experienced, seeing there was not only a French
army out, hitt a Spanish army also, besides Guerillas, and
robbers of all sorts assuming that name. The Hon. Gentleman
said, the house which lie had mentioned had received two
proclamations under cover. In sending these there was no
great harm. But the Hon. Gentleman stated them to have
been substituted for something else which was expected He
did not understand how this had been ascertained. If the Hon.
Gentle Man, or any body else, would satisfy him that this was
known, he should deem it his duty to make inquiry into the
circumstances of the case.
Mr. HOBHOUSE said another communication had been
expected, and the proclamations being received under a cover,
addressed to the parties in the hand-writing of their comma.
cud agent,, the Messrs. Bowring could have no doubt that these
had
-been substituted' for something else.

Mr. Secretary CANNING remarked, that it had not been
stated before by the Hon. Gentleman that the Messrs. Bowring
had received the proclamations in an envelape, addressed to
them in the hand-writing of their commercial agent. This made
a material difference, as from that circumstance it would ap-
pear that their letters had been detained. Were this not the
fact, there would have been little ground for complaint on the
subject of the proclamations being sent, as in that case the
proclamations would have been all clear gain.
The Papers were ordered to lie on the table.
Lord G.SO3IERSET presented a Petition from the Bankers,
Merchants, and others,' in the town of .Monmouth, against the
Insolvent Debtors' Acts.—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. R. MARTIN presented a Petition from certain Inha:
bitants of the County of QalWay,, praying for the imposition of
a duty on Foreign Barilla.—Ordered to be printed.
COMM ERCIA lEVANCE.
Mr. J. SMITH had a petition to present of considerable im-
portance from a very respectable body of men, signed by a
Teat number of merchants and bankers of the city of London.
hey complained-that at present, on making a consignment of
money or goods, the merchant had no adequate protection, but
was exposed to certain risks, by enactments not at all analo-
gous to those of the common law.
Mr. Alderman BRIDGES supported the petition.
Mr. SCARLET' regarded any thing suggested by so re-
spectable a body as entitled to serious consideration, but he
was inclined to think the petitioners had not taken the most
correci view of the subject. He proCeeded to explain the ob-
ject of our law (which he understood to have been borrowed
from the general law of the Continent), which had been framed
with a view to protect the principal against any fraudulent at-
tempt on the part of the agent to appropriate the property of
his employer to pay his own debts.
Mr. BARING contended that it long been a desideratum
to have this law altered. What the merchants wanted was, to
let persons know into whose hands they entrusted their goods
beforehand, and then to leave the factor with the power of
selling, so that there might be a free circulation. The object
was not to look at cases of possible fraud, but to acquire a free
circulation of trade. If frauds occurred they would fall upon
the merchants, and not the lawyers. .
Mr. HUSKISSON said he agreed with the lion. Gentleman
who had just sat down, that the question was one chiefly af-
fecting the commercial interests. He held in his hand a simi-
lar petition, which he should have to bring up that evening*,
coming from all the bodies concerned in commercial pursuits in
the town he had the honour to represent. He should not pre-
sume to otFer an opinion opposed to that of his Hon. and
Learned Friend, but why should they not send the question
before a Committee up stairs, to inquire how tar the law of
Europe agreed with that of England upon the subject, and to
arrange the difThrence if any existed.
Mr. SCARLET'!' explained.
Mr. RICARDO should understand the argument of his
Hon. and Learned Friend, if he could point out to them the
means of knowing a factor from a merchant. There must ne-
cessarily be a loss somewhere, and it ought to tall upon the
man who neglected to use proper caution.
After a few words in reply from Mr. .T. Slum', and an in-
audible observation from Mr. J. MARTIN, the Petition was
ordered to be printed.
Mr. J. SMITH gave notice that he should to-morrow move
for the appointment of a Committee to inquire into the subject.
Mr. CAWTHORN presented a Petition froM Lancaster
against any equalization of the Sugar Duties.—Ordered to be
printed.
FOREIGN TALLOW.

Sir T. LETHBRIDGE presented a Petition from the-But-
chers of Leadenhall, complaining of the glut of Foreign Tal-
low in the market. He wished to ask the Right lion. Chan..
cellor of the Exchequer, or the Right Hon. President of the
Board of Trade, whether it was their intention to add to the
import duty on Foreign Tallow.
Air. IIUSKISSON said he was sorry his Right Honourable
Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer was not in the House,
for as the question was clearly one of finance, he could not
answer it.

Mr. HUME said, he hoped that instead of increasing the
tax, Ministers would take it off altogether.
Mr. MONCK said, he hoped that no exclusive protection
would be granted to the agricultural interest. Taxes ought
nut to be levied on the people for the purpnse of keeping up
prices, in order to enable landlords to sustain their enormous
rents.

Sir T. LETHBRIDGE explained.
Lord MILTON expressed his surprise that the honourable
Baronet should not see the obvious fact. that any new tax upon
the importation of this article must fall upon the people, and
lessen their means of purchasing it.
Mr. RICARDO made a few observations on the same side.

The Petition was then ordered to be printed. • --
Sir T. LETHBRIDGE presented a 'Petition from Kingston,
in Somersetshire, against the General Turnpike Act.—Refer_
red to the Committee.

Mr. HUSK ISSON presented a Petition from the Merchants,
Bankers, Traders, and Factors, of the Town of Liverpool,
praying for an alteration in the law of Principal and Factor,
similar to that presented from the City of London.—Ordered
to be printed.