The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-03 00:00:00

ssesseeses-e- esessenesessesesee.---eessesesseessee-seseesesos esstese
alseidy resseedy fee the tiate of ilifees. oarnetaincit of might
WM be steerded. On a second occasion when the Member
for Perth (Mr. F. Manic) brought the same subject before
tie Howe, the Right Honourable Baronet repeated the
ame thing. He must sq, that th. continued refusal
of sites by proprietors was most impolitic, and opproed to the
interests and welfare of the count rio—s Hear, hear.) He be•
lieved that time and reconsideration had had its effect, and that
!aeli cases were not now of so frequent occurrence as form, rly,
though he regretted to find that a few still existed. He saw
that there were cases still in the Free Church—though ad tore e
re-union was now given up—where the inhabitants of ust-
t;ticosirvdeindy o
districts were totally debarred front worshippingGod
their consciences. Under these circumstances,
Ins Hon. Friend had come forward to ask, not for a legislative
rere,edy.for the grievances complained of, but fur a Committee
inquire into them It was alleged that strong reasons
existed
it
t'in many cases for refusing the sites. If that were so,
Was a legitimate cause of inquiry, and would very properly
tne under its consideretion. There wre
acre proprietors,
brroever, as soon as they becerne aware that union had
me Impossible, had granted the sites, which till then hal
been refused. To ascertain who those proprietors were
would,, be the result attained b the labours of the Committee.
Those also wile laboured tinder the imputation of refusing sites
would have an opportunity of showing the motives which in-
taced them in such a course. He, therefore, for
oe, was ready to assent to the inquiry. Ile did not,.
to
after, wish to lie understood as pledging te st' 11
eh y legislative course in consequence of that asserit.
Zere were parties who were unwildng to believe that the
ircition would be eermanent, and therefore they were
Ing tO grant sites ; but that expectation must have I ng
'll'ece passed away ad for the f uutre better things were to be
°Pell lie did }
not wish, on this occasion, to enter into the
tVsestion as to whether the cessation was right or not. but he
I,l(llieeeht everybody would admit that it was a remarkable event,.
e
the b carried with it the sympathies, if not the couvictiono.ot
uromolaY• He wished fur one moment to glance at the err-
el ntes under which this ineuiry was proposed. It had
reseed God to visit a part of Scotland with severe destitution,
ker.ld in this state of things the members of the Free Church,
did
all sectarian feeling, had joined with all parties in
It Was a common fund for removing the prevailing distressh.
Pieties e now, fur the first time since the cessation, that bot
titr._ had come together in harmony and union. They had
uwn aside all illefeelirg, and, united, they had taken upon
at‘lasselves the good will of feeding the hungry, clothing
tilted, and arresting the progress of the destitution. Let
Is'reo:inteldhoPe, then, that before the year closed, all differences
-be forgotten, and both parties would again unite them-
et' pood fellowship and religion.
r re. H. INGLIS was unwilling to enter into a general
post
of the subject, but, before h 3 proceeded further, he
att t be allowed to express his sense of the feeling
had Moderate manner in which his lion. Friend
11 brought forward this motion. (Hear,
, must say that no object which he had ever felt himself
manner
try st
dijfsn:Preenlietdfrtolotithpeose was ever brought forward and advocated
manner more calculated to gain it friends. This was very
p- °position made last year by his friend the
ar. (Mr. Fox Maule). He spoke not of the
direct ;he referree to the object. There they proceeded to
leeei.rfa:eli,negest ; here they only proposed a Committee of
tO the Y. nut he did think that some regard ought to be paid
and principles of those who supposed that it was
of j:et?` ',al part of their duty to forward the pri iciples
agree it,',re,e Church of Scotland. He could not
Cl3tlPta" W.."
"is lionourab:e Friend who seemed to hold
nt.e' whole names he had mentioned as bigots and perse-
tkonew i'n'tiro°n,e especially of them, he ( Sir R. H. Inglish)
y lonea'elY, and knew his Hon. Friend was quite unequal
rapnr.;ett_orvoaunwortlav of he would not say a man, but of a
Christian country. He felt himself bound to
leaes2P and defend his Hon. Friend Sir James Riddle, who he
fo "" was incapable of it, and would be the first to assist in
ljeW4rding any great benevolent object. In reply to the state-
that of the proposer, he might, in the first place, remind him
and lll:Population was overstated ; there were but 3,000 eople,
that ,'"0 of them belonging to the Free Church. Helps ssed
Gentler' however, and he saw by the smile of the Hon.
Woman that he' did not consider that any answer. But he
,e.llld ask the Hon. Member, as he had asked him the former
lite°, whether he was prepared to give the same privileges to
Cee°„ther Disienterse recollected that last year the Hon.
iljorcefloe:ean Mr. F Maule), when he put the question to him,
„ e not at all seem prepared to accede to the proposition. He
thought that his lion. Friend ought not to move the
mike to do that, the principle of which he was not prepared to
I/ ',common to all—Roman Catholic as well as Protestant.
t thought that the remaining landowners who had refused
I:, Pant sites had dune so by the conduct of the
been of the free church of Scotland. He had
plat' Credibly informed that at Kimoss, and some other
rne-` enetsa' the Free Church had built their establish-
the t not only near to, but in actual juxtaposition with,
aodehurehes of the establishment, insomuch that the same bells
ties the !line clock answered for both buildings. The real qur s-
Pin dispute was, whether he, as a member of the establish-
otent, should be compelled'
to erect buildings upon his estates
hetile Purpose of propagating a system of worship to which
Mwal conscientiousl opposed. He hoped the House would
ate before they gavey their assent to the proposition of the
th"' Member for the appointment of a Select Committee on
we subject. He did not think that the Duke of Buecleugh
tlaa actuated by any unworthy motives in refusing sites for
kiees or public wors-hip lie thought the Hon. Member for
11rnarnock had introducede the question in the manner that
Wan
five most-unobjectionable, still he did not think that a legisla-
Measure would mend the matter.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM wished to say a few words in the
Present st e of the discussion. It having been his painful
etiStY to :address the House more than once before. Ile
"ad but little to add, and nothing to retract. He
much regretted that sites had been refused to the
Members of the Free Church, and that some individual
Proprietors, from a sense of duty, had made such a refusal. It
Was, after all, as the Member of the University of Oxford hod
Stated, with many of these proprietors, a case of conscience ;
but he differed with the Hon. Member in thinking that the
Present motion was better than the one proposed last year by
the Hon. Member for Perth. He did not consider that the
question was one for a Committee. It was admitted that cer.
P~pof the great proprietors of Scotland had refused site; to the
. es
eshurch. No one attempted
acs,y. The Hon. Member
."r Kilnaarnock's statement of which had been presented
,te.'l,tt Calm and dispassionate manner, presented nothing new.
olartre had been only two additional cases stated ; the one was
that'll Lord Macdonald, of Skye, and he was even told that
weer use had been mentioned last year. These refusals
tear-l" diminish as the weeght of public opinion would already to
upon the subject. He understood that they were
it in number. What was the object of the measure? Why
had been frankly stated by the seconder of the motion that
heysuch
solemn feeling in thaeir nature should be called forth ; they
Were in the midst cf a great national calamity, of such an extent
It'd of such an awetil character, that it humbled the pride of
40". He did agree in the sentiments of Mr. Jones Loyd, so
eloquently expressed, and which they had all read in the
'morning paper, that the present was an occasion when the
?gre Oppositio'n of party ou.ght to be silenced, and all the
euterness of religious animosity ought to be assuaged in the
l'ntitnent of Christian charity. Now, he would ask, was ex.
P?dotettle_a legitimate object? •r was it desirable that the eon-
*" of certain individuals should be inquired into? If there
re':,!. no other grounds, he would be prepared to resist the
inquire Was it just, or was it advisable, that they should
11)Vre into what were the religions opinions of the
we'„ete, of Buccleuch or of the Earl of Aberdeen ? He
tso4,aak, was it even tolerable that such an inquiry should
- glare ? He lamented these refusals. He did not think
eiat they would continue. The Secretary of State had de-
-4 red that they had diminished, and be therefore saw no room
tZosa that
wrimittee of Inquiry. He considered that the measure
end ihtn‘•hy the Member for Perthwas m -st objectionable,
tonsure course of legislation on that subject would be most
did trotUs. The question was, however, one of degree, and he
*eret doubt the competency of the Legislature, butif they
tolerat? l egislate they should do it on the principle of general
all so tem ; it must not be confined to Scotland, but extend to
trottoitetY• The principle of toleration was universal. lie
het not trespass open this attention of the House furthrrt
uP
Pre en Lose grounds he would object to the motion, andt f
toa division, he would vote against it.
Lord
the _•
BENTINCK concurred-in all that had fallen from
is i
ht slit Hon. Baronet who had just sat down, more especial
!lieu Hold not agree wi.h the sentiment expressed theby
"r? Seotl Member opposite, that if the proprietors of land
from
the and rs fused to grant sites, he was prepared to take them
who ham by legislative enactments. Every Hon. Member
the Hod addressed the House had praised the moderation of
his
member who moved the appointment of this Corn-
ell{ rna:._ admitted that there was the sunviter in mob in
especaniiner, but there was also something of the
.fortiter in re,
when speaking of the Duke of Buccleuch ; he (Mr.
iilll:rhetttri,eY) acknowledged the virtues of the Noble Duke, but
All tooted that he was willing to indulge in a little persecution.
Ptru,c„,, who were acquainted with his Grace, were aware that
t to(st_l°ll was altogether foreign to his character, and that
esedeeee generous person did not exist. It was
led to that a great degree of provocation had
more Many of these refusals. He believed nothing could be
le iolent and indecorous than the denunciations flung by
toePreacherses of the Free Church upon those who had refused
peeeraet alter. He was not prepared togo into an inquiry with
Islitljeolf:itto° the conduct of his Grace and other noble individuals
p5116,7ad been alluded to. If the landowners were to be corn-
grant sites fur the Free Church, on what ground were
eto be refused to the Roman Catholics? Wherever the
because
of the Free Church had been refused sites, it was
eet'ae they wished to build them inoffensive stations.
'etrs ISIAULE No. no
ford G. BENTl—lie—fle believed, however, that such
Ras the case, they wishing to build their churches beside, or
erbraegedr to,
toth e churches of the Estash. T conude, he
say that he would supportbli thement Righto llon. cl
Baronet
'4 his objection to the motion.
Mr. F. MAULE, after the speech of the Noble Lord and
that of the Right lion. Gentleman who preceded him, he
thought that without going into any argument, he could
ti,all!blish a fair claim to an inquiry into the subject. The
*'tle Lord had brought forward assertion after assertion,
Committee
he (Mr. Fox Mauls) would be able to prove before the
;`-•:irvieleerical Ian::: were wholly without foundation, and the facts of
had been misrepresented to the Noble Lord. If the
a question for a Committee of Inquiry into the mo-
tif:3of individuals, he would be one of the last to ask the
seeehe, !: grant the Committee moved for. The Committee
ertee_,, r was only one to inqure into a national griev; nee, and
rnerew,neeh affected an integral part of the nation, and affected
kin 'flan one half of the populto ion of that part of the United
oe Im. The matters in issue had been before the House
Made °Pner occasions, and each time the statements
erstd Et)), the Honourable .Member who brought them for-
gets, e"ad been disputed, and he must say that he
haeeeitnt the time was now come when the House was bound to
full explanation of the matters complained of. If it
been use
true that unjustifiable language had upon some occasions
rnadeu_aed, unworthy of Christian ministers, let the facts be
had 4011 lie as the refusal of sites had been made.
.He
Poe,. 0 wish to protect or to expose either of the
. parties.
hprevi)nriertitfi_te eases hal been brought forward of individuals
ward gy,!ehtused to grant sites, but they wsre only brought for-
reference to districts in which there were no other
Of the ors, and thus enhancing the difficulties of the members
been Free Church. He woeld tell the Noble Lord what had
itt
ethe conduct of the ministers of the Free Church
fuse:, island of Skse, to whom sites had been re-
doe, and what hail been its results famine had
Persons starvation had done its worst, and many poor
at one had been driven to desperation. Threats were
aestenserne held out that the poor would apply to their own
rneeoteß{tiehare.the flocks of sheep which were grazing o.n the
tte etdess 'From the pulpits, and in the gravel pits in
doctrine were forced to assemble for Divine worship, the
Minds
se ,"f obedience was successfully inculcated upon the
the '1 the people, and not a single instance had occurred of
aPpreeeta..
Poor re_ e non of property. Was it. to be borne that these
thetol, "lee shuulil be denied the erivile e of a roof to protect
floe 'orfomseheinelemency of the weather 4 during their celebra-
that reivinc worship e— Hear, hear.) He believed
these if the II P • (
ouse refused the latter, they would drive
to despair, and also run the risk
'ife(lierivirthernmenfrum the habit of attending public worship.
CootZtee_ar,r2t.stly trusted that the House would grant the
truth rnir.,7_,,T,lnquiry. This was all they wanted, so that the
on no ttisom o laid bare, and that they might ascertain whether
truth and _ complaints of the Free Church were founded in
Air rs (pored redress.—( Hear, hear.)
tl • STUART w.
ertian ORTLEY thought the Right Hon. Gen-
eerem -0 first addressed the House on the side of the Go-
ent (sir George •
veorge Grey) should have remained silent on