The Sun.
London, England, 1847-06-11 00:00:00

AFFAIRS OF PORTUGAL.

Lord BROUGHAM complained that certain papers
connected with the affairs of Portugal had been pubhsht d
in the newspapers before they were laid upon the table
of the House, and gave notice that on Tuesday he should
submit a proposition to their Lordships on the subject.
POOR REMOVAL ACT.

Lord REDiDALE presented a petition from the
unty of Oxford complaining of the operation of the
Poor Removal Act.

Several Bills were brought up from the House of
Commons, and rid A. first time.
QUAKERS MARRIAGES.

Lord CAMPHELL rose to move the second reading
of a Bill for declaring terrain marriages between Quakers
valid. It was a Bill to confirm Lord Cottenham's Bill. An
Act had been passed in 1896, to render the marriages
of Quakers valid, but great doubts had been raised re-
specting their valid►ty, and in Scotland they had been
declared to be untenable, and this Bill was to remove all
diaibta respecting them, as great distress had been ex-
perienced in consequence of the decisions of the courts
of law.

The Bill was read a second time without a division.
RE I'ITRNS FROM THE POST-OFFICE.

The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said that the last
returns from the Poet office were not satisfactory, and
therefore he wished to obtain further details.—They
were granted.
REWARDS TO THE NAVY.
The Earl of HARDWICKE gave notice that he
should postpone his motion on this subject from to-day
till Monday next.
LOANS TO IRELAND.

Earl FITZWILLIAM movtd for a return of the
loans made to Ireland for the relief of distress during the
past and present sessions; also the sum which might be
expected to be repaid. Zhe papers had b► en al► eady
kid before the other House of Parliament, so that they
could be easily supplied to that House. He thought the
public of this country would be surprised when they were
informed of the gross amount which had been lent tor this
purpose. The people of this country had been taught
the press to believe that the amount was much greatet
than it was, but ►t would be found, he understood, that
the totil amount was bet wt en 6,000,0004 and 7,000 000 L,
which had been lent upon go,.d interest.
The motion was agreili to
SCOTCH BILLS.

The following Scotch Bills passed through Cora
inittee:—

Service ..f Heir;.
Ist aniferenve of Lands.

Burgage Tenure.

Heritable Securities for Debts.

C ro.n Debtors.

MES:AGE FROM THE COMMONS.

Mess, ngers from the Corumon6 brought up several
&Hs.

BISHOPRIC' OF MANCHESTER BILL.

Lord LANSI)O WNE rose to move the order of' the
day for the second readieg of the Manchester Bishopric
Bill ; and he would take that opportunity of stating, his
regret that a jocular observation which was made the
other night, and which was not intended to have
been heard, sh ,uld have been published, and
thus making the business of their Lordships' House
appear to be conducted more irregularly than it really
was. It was necessary from the great and spreading
population of Manchester to establish a spiritual head in
that town, and there was fortunately the means for
the providing of a bishopric out of the paro-
chial funds, which had increased to a very great degree.
These were the leading provisions of this Bill. The
diocese would embrace a population of 1,123,000 per-
sons, and 1,220 square miles. He had stated that the
funds were already provided for supporting the bishopric,
and therefore the country would be put to no expense
Hhiemdtido
owohtat whatever
know
thatby thethe
there
establishmentwere
oorft
htehri s
detailsdioceseior
remark upon, and he had only, in conclusion, to move
that the Bill be now read a second time.
Lord MONTEAGLE was quite sure the Bill would
be agreed to if it were notcalculated to involve the
country in any expense ; but, under existing cir-
cumstances, their Lordships had long felt
and admitted the necessity of this measure.
If he understood the statements right, it was asserted
that there was a surplus in the fund Of the Ecclesiastical
Commissioners, and that it was not contemplated to call
for supplies front any other quarter. It should be
recollected that this idea first arose from the Government
of Sir Robert Peel ir. 1835 ; and the Commisan
then in existence had recommended that there should
be a consolidation of two of the Welsh bishoprics
as well as as a consolidation of the sees of Gloucester
and Bristol. Through these consolidations it was stated
that the means would be raised for erecting a see of
Manchester. But this question had excited great
attention out of doors, and it was doubted
that the Legislature had any right to in-
terfere at all with the principle which would be
invaded by interfering with these bishoprics. A petition,
numerously and importantly signed, was presented
by his Noble Fri-nd (Lord Brougham)—and be did not
complain of any want of consistency in the conduct of
his Noble Friend. But it should be recollected that
the first object of the Commission of Inquiry
issued by Sir Robert Peel's Government was to
make a better provision for the parochial clergy
of North %Val, s. Of that commission the two Arch-
bishops, the Bishop of Lincoln, and the Bishop of
tiloucester were members, and thost. Commissioners
came to the conclusion that there was not
a sufficient fund to provide for these paro-
chial clergy. But it was aiterwarde found
that the proceeds to be obtained from the consolidation
of t...e two Welsh bishoprics were not only sufficient :or
the addition to the incomes of the parochial clergy, but
that toere would be funds to make a provision
"or the new see of Manchester. Bit in the
revel of the secerel Cotntnissien it was worthy of
ob.ervatien that no notice Whatever was taken of the
wants of the parochial el rgy of North Wales. Seeing
the mischief that was likely to arise from tee consolida-
tion of the two bisho Tics, he had called their L .rdships'
attention to the subject, indeed he had laid a Bill upon
their table. But the Bill contained a new and most ha
portant provi-ion—it was the first time they had b -en
called upon to appoint tour new bishoprics, the rept.,
sentAtives of which were not o be permitted to have
seats in that House; and bes.des their appointment was
not recommended by the Ecclesiastical Commissioners
as in all former cases. They were demanded by the
people, and though they were not immediately to have
-eats they were subsequently to be entitled to the
When he looked at the great increase of the population,
especially in ,owns, and the necessity of instructing
them, he could not but bring himself to believe that the
parochial clergy were unable, in some parts of the
country, to provide for this necessity. In North Wales
the inadequacy of church instruction had been felt more
than in any other part of the country ; so de-
obmfeertnht
that
tf oft
fe.,tive had it proved, notwithstanding the appoint-
ethlaseohtcoahlbalyiroshho,epxasoo,eethdthaedtatthtebtpehreoghroenmausbmoor-f
belongingwo
dissent had been more rapid than the doctrines of the
Church of England ; and this was a state of things
which they were about to perpetuate by the Bill before
them, and he considered that they should increase the
clergy rather than the Bishops. He considered that the
principle of creating bishoprics without seats, was most
objectionable.
Lord STANLEY admitted all that had been said by
the Noble Marquis as to the impossibility of the present
Right Rev. Prelate the Bishop of Chester attending to
the spiritual wants of his extensive diocese in the way it
ought to be done. He rejoiced, therefore, that the pre-
sent measure was introduced, although he considered
that some of its principles were objectionable. The ob
jection which he took to the principle of this Bill was the
establishment of a bishopric without the ativatttage of a
seat in that house. The Noble Marquis who introduced
this Bill had stated that the Ecclesiastical Commissioners
had recommended that in the establishment of
new bishoprics, an arrangement should be made to
prevent the erection of new seats in that House, except
in one instance. Now he thought it was highly desir-
able that the public should know what was the number
of sees to be established which should have seats in that
House attach -d to them. It was evident that her Ma-
jesty's Government intended to make a considerable in-
crease to the sees of this country, without, however,
appointing them to seats in their Lordships' House ;
but, in his opinion, it would be much More satisfactory
to make the number smaller and affix seats to each of
them. It the principle to he established by this Bill
were the creation of four-and-twenty sees with seats in
• hat 'louse according to the seniority of the Bishop, and
four and-twenty without seats, it would often happ,-ti
that tin. most NI, need Bishops would he alt gether ex •
clutlet from ih.,ir Lordships' House ; and he therefore
thought it would b., undoubtedly more satisfactory to
reduce the number and give them all seats. Adopt
the principle w this Bill, however, and they might
go on establishing these new bishoprics without seats,
meta the number of sees reach 48, excluding, perhaps,
te,• most able and efficient of the Episcopal Bench from
participating in the ecclesiastical government of the
country; and as ',Lich a step must of necessity be pro-
•mieiNe of jealeusies and dis-alisfactien amongst the
„1,." niu‘t rep at his conivica..n that it would
f heft/ r.o reduce ihe wont.. r ant give to each o; them
;pee ;4ehts aid pro it ;;es. It was not his intention,
n vo.i,,ee.s., to elf r eny opposition to ti-is Bill. but in
ifiie -wog tt.t C •ursts, he must eirna,tly entreat her Me-
jesty's Govt.rnment not to mislead the public, or to keep
them in suspense by withholding from them the precise
number, and the precise principles upon which they pro-
posed hereafter to establish the new bishoprics,
Lord BROUG fIAM must also object to the anomaly
of tT tvernment eßtehlishing one single bishopric in this
country without the adventage of a seat, in tha•• House.
It was a dangerous principle, and in refraining from
opposing it now, he wished it to be understood that he