The Sun.
London, England, 1812-02-28 00:00:00

Gough the printed copies of tl,e papers had, as the
Honourable Gentleman had said, been delivered that
day, that appeared to him of little consequence.—
There was only one line in these papers on which
he would rest the motion that he felt it his duty
to submit to the House, and that was, " that Mr.
-Walsh bad been found guilty of the felony laid in
the indictment." With respe& to Mr. Walsh's let-
ter to his brother, it wouldbe produced at the Bar
of the- House by -Mr: Jenkins, the Soliciter,• and
would be read distinaly and audibly by the Clerk at
the table. This, in his opiniOn, would afford the
Ilousean ample opportunity of judging of its ten-
dency. The thing would speak for itself in the most
unequivoc t terms; and the letter would exhibit a
coMplete avowal of a' guilty mind and a guilty atri.
If, after bavingheard this letter, the House should
think further 'delay necessary; however unwillingly,
he rnu,t bow to their opinion. 'There was one ar-
gument of the Honourable Gentleman's which he
could by no means allow. He could not admit flat
under such circumstances the absence
_of any Hon,
Members afforded a just growl(' for postpowno- the
consideration of the subjed. The hour was by no
means unusually early, and it ought to be knOvvn to
every Alember of Parliament, that rnattets of privi
lege took precedence of all &her questions. fle.put
. it to the House whether or not they wined that the
bbsirkss shoUld proceed ?
Mr. LAMBE thought that there could -not be a
tiiore grave and solemn reason assigned (or delay,
than (Int Honourable Men-rives Were not in full.
-• tr 1 • the subjeCt. The
possession o ev er.ce on
question was one of a novel nature; alai_ wouldtherefore establish a precedent. It wa's flat- thefe-
fore,cOnsiiient with a due regard' to the privileges
of the HiAlseto proceed so suddenly and so hastily
in t he:determination of it.
Mr. WYNNE would not anticipate the decision of
Llouse on the question itSell. It was admitted
by those who were Most competent to form a judg-
ment upon it,. to be one of very considerable difficul-
ty, and he thbiight that the House could not refuse
to listen to the arguments urged by the two Hon.
Gentlernen for postponement ; when they consider-
ed how short a time a 'part of the papers had been
oil the ',table, how recently the printed . copies of
then had been put into the hands "of Members, and
how importalit a piece of evidence yet remained to
be received. • He (Mr. W. Wynne) suggested the
propriety of the. inunediateproduClion of the letter
written by Mr. Walsh to_ his brother.- That letter
might be read, and ordered to be printed. A sufli--
eient time might be given to allow of a comparison
of that Ltier with the other documents, and of an
examination of the Journals as to former proceed-
ings on similar cases; and thus fully informed on
the. stlbjeCl, the House might come to, a more so-
lemn decision upon it than they could on the, pre

sent occasion..
.Mr. BATHuasT., was of opinion thar,the .case was
quite strong enough without the produ6tion of Mr.
Walsh's letter. Still. if Honourable Gentlemen
thought that the other:documents had not been
printed long enough- to allow a • full- damination of
their nature- and contents, a -short postpotlenont
night with propriety- be ac.eclecl to. He ticpre-
cated,' how ever,•any unnecessary delay or •so-grave
a subject, and one which so nearly,iiinplicated. the
Frivireges arid character of. tlw 1-1-ouse; • .
The order of the day having been. read,' .
Mr. BANKES. observing that he was 'otle,aciffie

last men-who-vottld- wish twbe.,ioo hasty ;in wis-
ing- such a question, expressed his intenlion.rtf.pOst-
i,;ino4ithe ueciSion of it:until.MlOiyA,-.!,
The SPEAKER apprehended, that as the.-business
w.is not then to be,eunciuded„ it.would be neces
make a .fiesh, order,for theattelidaote of
Mr, Walsh- in his place on Mcnday, fnt.,fie.'first
i;l;!ce, however, it would be expedient to .
.asceilain
uhether_Mr. Walsh had been served with the order
of the House, requiring his attendance in his place
on this day.
01:e of the Messengers was called to the bar., . .
'T,Iie,SpEAKEn.—Mr. Skelton, have you served
ir. Benjamin Walsh, Member of this House,with
the Order of ti:e House, requiring his attendance in
its place on this tlq ?
I%&s,enger--Yes, Sir, I have. I saw Mr. Walsh
yesterday morning at ten 0'c10,..k, and he.told me he
had received from his brother the Order which J
lett at his house on Tuesday night.
The Messenger having withdrawn, Mr. Jenkins,
tl.e Solicitor, was, on the motion of Mr. Bankes,
cidled to the Bar.

tie SPEAKER—Mr. Jenkins, ycu were the Soli-
ci:ot to the pie4eLution'against Mr. Benjamin Walsh,
a Member of !ilk I-1063e.
iri ?.
r.
The SPLAKER—Have you brought With you the
lett,ir mentioned in time Order-of this House, pur-

tot,,, a l; tier trora Mr. Belijarnin 'Walsh to

s br()fter ?
have.
The SPEAKER--Are you acquainted with the
ct Mr. ?
MI. Jenkins—No I am not.
theie any body with you who
is acy,ainted with is ?
Alr—Jenkins---Yes; Mr. Auricle.
'Mr. Mtride appeared at the bar.
The SPEAII{---41,1r.. Attrick, are you acquainted
%Anil the hand-writing of'lldr. Beoj.anin Walhh ?

Mr. Attride—Yes.
The SPEAKER—Have you ever seen him write ?
Attricle—;•l have.
The SPeAKER—Look at that letter, and inform
the House whether it is the hand-writing of Mr.
Ettojainha Walsh ?
_ _

Mr. Ai tride—l believe it is.
T:.e SPEAER-D0 you entertain'any doubt on
the subject ?-I.ook at the whole of the letter.

Attfide—l have no doubt that this is' Mr.
Walsh7s hand-wriiiiig.
The SP.EA4Eit—i-Lve
.y9u ever welt that ItAL:r
before

Mr. Attride
..7-Never.
The SipiK.Eit:--Mr. Jenkins, were you at
trial of Mr. Walsh ?, •

Mr. Jetikirks—Yei.
The SPEAKER—Bi viliom:was that lettcy deli-
yered into the Cowl ?
INlr. Je the SoLcitbr:Genet:id,.
The SPEAKER-14 whose e 1114.04
since ? . .
Mr. Jejikin's-4n Sr
The til4t :the `ido,hQc'pl ,fie ter;
livered iiito'Ciitirt 6y the- the ,
trial of Ur. Walsh, and kept by you ever sincc ?

Mr. Senliiht
The Witnesses were then nrdered to withdraw.,
The letter dated Dec. 5, 181 1 , was read by the
Clerk. (It has already been before the public).
Mr. BANKES moved that it-be printed.
Mr.•LocKi A liT wished to know whether to.agree
to the printing of this paper would be to entertain
the charge againSt Mr. Walsh ? If so, it would be a
grave subjeot
_for the. consideration of the Hottp,.
and he requested, therefore, to be tavourej ‘,vttli the
opinion of the Chair.
.• , The, St'EAKER apprehended. that the letter was:
part<of the charge against the Hon. Member. What
decision the House would come tocin the charge,
it- would be for them to determine, when_, they
came to consider the evidence of which this
.letter

was a parf., • .
Mr. LoCKTIA-RT, understanding fhat the letter
Was to be received as evidence of the clrirge, objei-
ed most strongly to its reception, because it was only,
qidente ofa most disliOnouraOle andinfamous transac-
tion between one individual and another.lkle hoped
the Illi,.4...GentleMait
,M,eati to adduce it in
support *of the.. record of
.I\4, Wolah'S conviCtien,
That could norbe,,done, for the contents of the re-
cord trust be its only support.. If it were intended
to rely on 'the letter in the-event of, the record trot
being considered sufficient to warrant --the House in
acquiescing_ in the
_ultimate proposition Of the, Hun.
Gentleman, then he trusted the nor* would ap!
,point a Conamittee to search- for precedent; in order
to discover' whethefany such charge as that which
.could founded on the letter had ever been enter
tained by
•Parliament ; and whether Parliament had
'ever proceeded to expel
,a Member on the know-
IdgeO,l a trarisadion, however infamous, between
one inclividual.and .anot her. he -had. trade diligent
inquiry on the -subjeCl, and .he Cutildfind only one
case in the year 170, in which Sir Edward Thomas
having complained, -of frauds and abuses on
the part of his on towards himself, the Ho.use.
did entertain the charge but they a(terwards threw.
it out as not being on sufficient grounds, and de-.
cided that only those charges could be entertained'
which were founded on transaaliuns in'famons in a ",
public point of view. All such tranSactioue resolved
themselves into four classes. The ,first, cases of

,
persons whO were found infamous by the records of
their convidions in Criminal Courts of Law; se-
condly, cases of persons who had been in open re-
bellion ; thirdly, cases of persons gUiltv Of corrupt,
and improper practices. as Membersiof that House;
and, fourthly, Ccir,:S of 'persons guilty, of. offences
against thepLl.Uic. - Never, however, was a charge.
entertained founded on a dishonest transaction be-,
tween man and man. To entertain such charges
would be to make the. House of Commons.a great
Court of ' Judicature, authorised to examine every
private transaction that was alleged to be improper
and the ultimate purposes to which such A power
, might be applied no one could foresee; that it
would be productive of enormous inconvenience was
evident, and. he therefore pressed for the appoint--
ment of. a Committee, before a precedent was
established, calculated to be so injurious in its con-
,sequences.
I'he CHANCELLOR:Of the EXCHEQUER confessed
• hiriasell, rii.vable. to distinguish the letter from the
other documents on the subject, or to understand
vv,hy the oidering of the letter to be printed was more
".comPletely to.entertain the charge than the ordering
of te printifig of the other documents. q't.re, Hon.
Qenifernon seemed to have misconceived what fell
1 ft-till the Choir, ,The charge was not at present be-
fore lrc -House iti. a. shape to be entertained, nor
be. so, until, there was a motion on the sub-
E.-4. apprehended that the Hon. Metier of the
proposition
.bad moved; for the record of,convidion,
the Judge's letter, &c. and had moved that those
documents be printed---that he had examined the
witnesses at the bar—that he had Obtained from one
of them, Mr. Walsh's letter to his brother, and than
he now moved that that letter be printed—all for
the purpose of taking those preliminary steps which
would enable the House to judge whether or not the
charge ought to be entertained. The printing of
the letter 'could by no means prejudge the question
of entertaining the charge. He had no difficulty in
admitting that the question was one of very grave
consideration, and that the House must Well weigh
how far they could with safety and propriety adopt
the charge • without establishing a precedent which
might be found produetive of serious inconvenience.
Mr. WYNNE observed,. that by what had been
'already done, the letter must appear on the Jour-
nals, And must be transmitted to posterity, as hav-
ing been received and read in the House, just as
completely as if it were ordered to be printed,..—
The objection might, with uriore propriety, bave
been made to the motion on Tuesday for
duetion.

The letter was then ordered to be printed.
• • •
The SPEAKER said, that this Was theproper time
to acquaint the 14.,uSe, tilat he had received two
letters from Mr.. Walsh, intimating his intention of
not appearing in his place, but not ascribing that
intention to any bodily incapacity. Ai 'fie could
not find in the Journals any preCedent of a, written
defence having been receited from Members,' who,
having been ordered toattend, failed to du so, with-

out attributing hig non-attendance to. bodily inca-
pacity, he would not read those
,letters, uuless if
were the pleasure of the House that he. should

do so.

On she motion of Mr..BANR.Es, Mr, Rex:y.lmin
Walsh was ordered to attend in his place on
Monday.

On the motion of Mr. H. THORNTON, various
Accounes of the official value of Exports and Im-
poris for the last four years, were ordered to be laid
bel(6g the House.

The Committee on the liish Population. Bill was
postponed to Monday. _

STATE OF THE NATION.
SiG T. TUR.TON .allowed,.that when he recolleaed
the, taleats and eloquence of those great men who,
on former occasions had submitted to the House
motions bimil a; to that of which be 14.1 d given no-
tice, and, the assistance ‘yhich they derived front the
reliediveparties.to which they .were attached,;, and
wben,he•considered the situation in which- he stood,
~~t}aided;bye;partyy ;acid uhproteeed by qualibc4tions
ot.; perlonaLnature„ he was-aprehs;psive, the Rouse

wou;,l presumptuous, if not incapable
executing IJAl.4l3ll,,Arissignv.Ll,u), tiii,nst If.
But tfics.e,weyengt tigkes,iu.whicluaily scitish aivirre-
)leßisup 4,lo,gll„tp..tiety•ra.man frtm. exiirc.ving his
sense of inedsur:?.s that lie conceived to tic detriinen-

tal to Ws country ; anti, una.sliattd as he

patty, he haa in that eitetitiVance the Consolation
cf feeling that patty prejudices could not be
putted to him.- He teat ed that he should,weary the
attention of the House before he sat down, but he
must in this respe6l throw himaAt
.ore their candid
indulgence. It'had been supposed;. because he had
moved for a variety of papers relative to the war in
the Peninsula, that that war Was the sole objea
his_ motion, Would to God that it could be so !
But it was to the alarming situation of the country
in all rest eats, that he wished to draw the atten •
lion ot . the House. He asked the Houle- to awake
from the lethargy in which they hail for so many
yeers been sunk—to consider calmly and dispas-
sionately the course of events since the Right Hon.
Gentleman opposite, and his colleagues, had heed
iu office—and then 'to lay their hands on their
hearts aad deterrnine, whether they could resist
.his motion for going itatp:a Committee on the State
el the Nation. The,k-lon. Baronet here entered in-
to a review of the transa6tions of •thc last six yeatS,
of which we shall content ourselves with a very
slight sketch. He began with the termination of
the Ncgociation for Peace in 1806. After that Ne-
gociatiota was unhappily broken off, •Buouaparte
marched against Prussia. The fall of that power
was • u:upitied ; but in its consequences, the pre-
di6tion of Sully, that,France would one day possess
universal donnuion on the Continent, w t,a) fully
verified. SoOn after this period, the 13,-!in and
'Milan Decrees were issued, being. much the sanie
experiment upon Great Britain,' that Great Bri-
tain subsequently made upon France by her Or-
ders in Council. It Was determined in this couii-
try to assume an attitude most 'advantageous to resist
the further aggressions of Fra:'ce. The flist expedi-'
Lion undertaken by the preaeht Ministers was that
against' Copenhagen, and Which he owed it to truth
and justice to say was in his opi'nion highly meri-
torious. Soon after this occulted the resistance.
in Spain to the de,Signs of Buonaparte. There was
but cue heart and mind. in ,this country with re-
spect to the succours to be 'wanted' to Spain on that
occasion ; and lie' remembred having almost been
cried ao4h, for asking whether it. was not a tempo-
rary ebtillition in Spain rather than a 'permanent
feeling? Ministers were accortlinglY.eieited to make
great exertions. The SpanisliGovern men tisaved'pro-
,clamatiCna foll'of energy, but never up to them.
They stated it to be their intention' to Can out five
hunured and fifty_ thoti4arid mien. •Undr.all the en-
curnatances of those times", he:did not blame Mi-
eisterS for having consvuted to cb:opetate with the
Spaniards as allies. Hi proceeded to go over the
two first campaigns in Spairi,,,teuching on, the first
lanclihsof
,Sir Arthur Wellegley in Mondego Bay, .
his supersession by Sir Harry 'Bitrraid and :Sir
Hew Dalrymple, the battle of Viiiiiera, the Con-
vention 'of ch)ted, the omission of affording any
assistance to Castkw's immediately after that pe-
riod : the Unfortunate march of , General Moore -
through Spain; the desertion the Spaniards experi-•
ericed in that march ; the opening of the second
campaign by Sir Arthur Wellesley; his pursuit of
Souk over the anno ; his imprudent march to Ta-
lavera ; the glotious battle of. Talavera, &c. He
then considered the motives which led to the ex-
pedition to. the Scheldt. These were asserted to be
for the purpose of creating a diversion in fa-
vour of Austria, involved in a war with Buonaparte,
which, be would do Ministers the justice to say, they
hadbeen,far from advising her to hurry into. During
the operations of the Austrian army, (with the ex-
ception of a trifling diversion by Sir J. Stuart), not
a shot had been fired by the BritiSh, although their
aid was loudly called for by their Allies. 'But. after
the fate of Austria bed been sealed,. by the battle
of Wagram, the unfortunate expedition to the
Scheldt sailed, which had been., productive of no
effect but the loss of 1 1,000 brave train, whose loss
would
,have been avoided,; if a Right Honourable
Gentleman, then a Secretary of State, had come f0r....
ward and declared his 'conviction of the incapacity •
of the Noble Lord at
.the bead of the War Depart-
Mem. Instead,, however, of impeaching that Noble •
Lord or, his Colleagues, Parliament passed a vote of
approbation of the measure. Was not that a ground
for an Inquiry into the state of the Nation ? (ii
hvigh.) The Noble Lord. Might laUgh at the con-
sideration that lie Was invulnerable ; but wii3t
would British historians say of the unparalleled
Vote of Approbation of Parliament, after the w ste
of so much blood and treasure ? By the place •
which the Noble
.Loral occupied in the f)ouse, he
1S ;l
was apprehensive that the oble Lord- would soon •

return to power. In th.tt case theCabintrt would very
soon become -warlike, the expeditions more tre-
quent, and the consequences of them 'more fatal.—
lie then adverted to the question of the nature of
the co-operation whicil thrL Spaniards.- affurded.—
Whai was the present situation of the Country
There were only two or three towns in the posses-
sion of the Spanish government. It becanie ne-

,cessary to ask, therefore, whether it was. expedient
that this country should proceed h the conte.si,
the expeptes of whir-A. were so`enOrmous, and the
issue of which likely to be so unfavourable.? But
he should be told. that the GoVernment ot- Spain
was changed, and that greater -exettiOns Might be
,expected from the new Government. Wit:tared-it
would not be so. He !wiped it might be ,so.
he did not think that such a hope, contradicted by
suclt long experienc, was a sut-liOent i.oducernent to
thii country to continue to bear those extreme
heavy
,burdens which she had,bitherco endured.—
The 11-cr.-Baronet wished to ask whether the pre-
sent Government in Spain was more arc.live and more
energetic, so as to lead to a probable hope That the
wishes of nor Government would eventually be
carried into effect To that question he would art.
swer himself, certainly not. Their condoel in every
.respect had shewn it—they interdicted the Libery
of the I>ress-7-they refused our -offered meditation
with respect to_South America. lo4tead of attend-
ing to our complaints respecting the- conduct of G-
neral Ls Pena, in net having fired a shot, they re-
warded him.with the cross of a Military Order. In-
stead of progressively advancing to the assistance in
the common cause, they hadinvatiably • retro-graded
from the crimmencement of. the war to -the sur-
render' of General Bhike and his Army.. The
policy- and conduct of the war'catried on. in the
PenittsJa, in wiratever light it was viewed, would
afford matter for, grave rind serious delPo.ration it)
the.(ominitik., it the House of Commons should
accede his motion. With • resiwa -to the Npenses
ipeorrO ins the coniest, tie snuthld ieciihed to
vote any sunt, if my LOrd Wei woul,l say
that toe prolongation woilld lead to &tiivoutabie re-.

•

snit, and that thectindueiof the Spanish Govern-
went was to be. - tolerated. The expeuset of the
ear anto.inted to between t 1 and le millioos an-
nually, drawn (rem the tai;~ s whieb the country was
unable to bear, rod it iltiehfne protracted for t weetyor
thirty fears, to a duration lorry; 35 the Pelopon-
fleshly: war. From this subiea the ILA. Baronet
adverted to the exertions in the Mediterranean.--;
from t 805, .we had
,been Oleg the' &ciliate;
300,0001.'annuallyi lietling up an army at an ex-
.pence.of o•te mill ton and a halt -aterling, in order tai
`support a Couit, the focus of se:hit:h. wasiturielld.
against its supporters. Pa, n; from Sicily, he tea.;
tered into the Easielndies, and oireeled the aatentioo
of the. Heretic kothe situatiouast ?Hairs in that (leer:,
ter Of the geibe,•con,endfog, -that the- acquisition of.
territory had contributed to ine dasgrace, and to thel
ruin of bar finances. He dreaded that if 50n7n..11144
was not done speedily to all ty she discontents in the.;
'army, worse mischief than had already happened
would follow. But what hed contributed to raise.
apprehension in his breast more than any other
cause, was the interference of the Government in
the administration of the jurisprodetrce of the
country, by potrishing juries who had gone against.
their wishea in finding vorditts; the Advocate
General was concerned in these tor/reit:lions.—
[Mre Wallace exclaimed,, " No !",j —The- .fact
was so. The Houourable Baronet maintained;
and: -he. would prove it et the bar, from &cu..'
men ts which he i';+; in his possessner. /11 short, hd
I,otew no tee. eenetit 'hat could result from our East
and West India Conquests. He' then a ;vetted to
•the relative situations at tin country and America,
vellieb he mentioned tv;tll e-ett respect, hut con.
tended, that the distessio ,s ~teen no hind mow,
'than a war of words, write); ,` it, seine test aleee.
The relaxation of the contest arose trout the rule of
war adopted in 1756, which providedetiatt a Bel:
ligetent should not-be justified in time of war in
departing from the situation which he oceep e I in"
:heoime of peace. He was aware that inavas teller
jeer which required great consideration, and setioes
deliberation. With respect to the Orders in Cotene
cil, the latter of those, of the 11th No., ember, was
issued in consequence of the (:nemy avingdeclared
ate ports of England in a state of b'oekade, The
law Of retaliation, by this ceutitry havingetbe power
in her own hands to carry the system of blockade
into effect; was a just measure ; and in so doing,
this country had a grand and fatuous precedent,
in the confederacy against Louis XIV. for the same
reasons which urged the adoption of the pre-
, sent Orders in Council,--namely, that the over-
whelming power of that monarch threatened he re-
pose of Europe. Puffenclorff and other writers ban
admitted the validity of this pretext ; but the other
order was an infringement of the tit!) articlexal the
Treaty of 1806, which provided that Anwrica sheaf
trade with any colonies belonging to the enemy,
-upon paying ara ad valorem duty on the articles
traded in, and by this, what he would term, pitiful
expedient, a sum of thirty thousand pounds was
raised, and the quarrel between the two countries
commenced. Buonaparte had rescinded his Decrees,
but instead of rescinding our Orders in Council, to
relieve the distresses of our manufacturers, they were
pertinaciously adhered to ; they were not, as tire
Right Honeairable Gentleman bad stated, the lona
fides, but the mala fides of this country. %Vl:en he
examined the Documents published to all .the
world, in respect to the discussions of Mr. Monroe,
he gathered -from them,that so far from concilkatinte
being
-the dispoSition of the Government, the con-
trary was the case. He, however, conjured thet
House to pause before they consented to act hestile/y
towards America. As to the situation of Ireland,
how had the question respeBing the situation of
that portion of the United 'Empire been treated I
The Honse had refused to entertain inTaily on
'what was stated to be Catholic , Cutteessiens, but
was that a reason for refusing to inquire into the
state of her commerce and trade, into the state of
the education of her youth, and into various other
'matters connetted with the happiness of the people?
Was nothing to be done to ...men late their condi-
tion? Tire Hon:Baronet then adverted to the situa-
tion of this country, ill respeet to the state of is com-
merce anal resources, w hrch lie would class u n der wo
heads ; namely, the number of men, an,l the ex-
penses. The army, including the Local Militia
(which he pert at 250,000); amounted the aggre-
gate, to t 307,000 men, drained from a population
in England of about six millions, to which Wright
be added two millions from Ireland, making, in the
whole, eight, millions of I ersons. The army, there-
fore, vas about One-tenth of the whole of this
male population, abstracted from the pursuits of
e&tieulturee end other means of labouring industry.
lie was aware that the answer to these observations
'tar:mild be, " Why, this war is uneateradented in the
annals of the country : be6.l s, the temper and
spirit of the people ate But beyond this
of the adults available for service, ore out of every
fourth or fifth was li +hie. The expense of support-
ing this vast force was little-short in the last year
col, 31 millions sterliug ; above seven millions ster-
ling more than the expenditure for the army in
1803. With re.sped to the debt, the unfunded and
unredeemed debt in I'Bt f, was not less than 0t
millions, being an itacreasetal r lel tt illions since the
coMmencetneet of tie war.' In looking therefore
at this increased expenditure, he had ,greet appre- •
heosioo that, whatever might be the wishes and in•
tentions towards Strain, the resources Of the. coma-
try could not be cominetiserate whit .!rose wishes;
it would become the House to see whether .the
country in future. would be enabled to meet the ex-
pentee of the war. What was the siturtion-of the
country to warrant this enoranters expetex ) Tice
revenue which he collected from the papers tree
to the sth of January 1812, was this ; 'the sur•
plus of the, Consolidated. Fund amounted to
2,873,0001. less than the preceding year ; the taxes
V'ere short 2,029,0001. Was there reason Co think
that when the country was at tle end of taxation,
means could be formsned for car ring on the war
If the taxes could not be made mtet the expendi-
ture, i expenditure must be made to. meet tin.-
taxes. The reCeiets of the Customs were"also less -
by ee0,0001.; these were fit Subjeets for inquiry.—
In this cone]itionot things -was not peace dasireble
it had beep said by the Right Hot). Gentlyman, that
lie had.no peisond objection to Buonaparte; but
supposing he had : in similar circumstances the Ge-
verement did wit refuse to treat- with Lewis IV.
when he had nivatied and plundered the elation we
now' supported.' France dot hot refuse to listen-to
Cromwell; who in.. irtaini of erieciple was siLuilax.to

iluoßiaplrfc. r, Rrree neiler said to hint, "- We t; iil
not !reit \via) yntt because 'you Murdered your Mas-
ter—you ate a canting ,hypocrite, and nobody_ will
believe you sincere." Notwittistancling ruts prece-
,dent; foolish invectives were indulged against
Pu.son now on the Throne of France. He re-
oputmend,2d 'condi ation with AMerica, the. re-
peal of the Ord,:Ts -in COuncil,, which he .con-
Sidered as the great bar to, aceornino:lating_ the
differences; the impress of seamen being hers de
"":Gut. Nothing brit
.a sense .of false pride could
prevent a negociation for peace, so riecessary.foi the.
prosperity ot the country.. He might be told that
the country? was 'in a, prosperous state; but where,
be Would ask, was that prosperity tof,be found ?•
Not in the high pride ot the. Ariitocracy, for many
Of the Ndbies were compelled to. hide at the liktle
places ; not in the great,contmercial capi7
talist, !or be was obliged to lie on his oars; not on
the small capitalist, for though true if was that
thirst for speculation to new 'colonies had, swelled.
or
the columns of . the Export and f,:ort,.List, yet
that thirst had contfibuted to swell the cOluirins of
the Gazette. Wa4 ii. then to be found in the manu7
fa6turing classes ?--Certainty not for sad experi-
,_nce had shewn to what distresses they were .re-
duced, living on riot, and organising their tiroceed-
ngs in a manner the most astonishing. the situ-
ation of the country was such, that in a short time,
Perhaps, the 'circulation would 13, similar to that of
Sweden--iron currency ;it would become Govern-
tnent and the House to look danger boldly in
,the face, and husband the resources. He assured
Ins Majesty's Ministers that he had no wish to ex-
aggernte the dangers of the State, but toctill for
Inquiry ioro the gene:al policy of the war.—
to ascertain whether the system so long persevered
in was not dangerous and destructive to the true in-
terest of the state—to consider whether it would not
be advisable iu conformity With their duty to the
c°llrurY,to address his Royal Highness upon the
Subjed_
those -
to inform the Prince Regent that
U'llo advised that continuance—who stated that re-
trenchment was unnecessary, and reform improper,
'Were not friend's to his Royal Highness ; that such
advisers would in time, go the length of un,jertnin-
ing the piinciples of, the ConstitutiOn—principles
'which settled the family of Brunswick on the Throne.
An Address of this kind he conceived necessary, re-
EPeafully worded, but firmly pursued ; which, if
not sufficient of itfelf to produce the end desired,
ii'ight be succeeded by remonstrance. The Hun.
aruiket concluded a very long speech, with-declar-
Ing) that he was aauated by t4.re most sincere and
Pure motives in bringing forward the motion, con-
"lying that the hianour-aild interest of the country
Were Involved in its consideration. He then moved:
thew That the House do resolve itself into a Committee of
hole liou Nation."
-e to take Into consideration the State ot the

14i
r • Tultrz seconded the motion ; . and in so
Qing., he had no disposition to followe the Hon. 8.1-
r"et throogh the vast extent of countries he lieu
:ngeol, but would take a humberflight, and give a
attolnelier view of the situation of effais.„ Be. trusted
atieretere, the House would indulge hint with their
the at homer instead of carrying them round
re. `4'clid. It had been said, that a reew ,e.raehad
thelved ; it therefore necatue the ,RepretteMatives of
and P""Piei of England to examine loge. tleeedbilteies
wherLesourt:es of the country, to meet the 4ifficultieo
clewlC" Were apparent at the cornmeocernent..ofehis
bra; and to inquire into the abilities of the oae
on to comely-with the demand of Ministers, furnishing ways and means to sneer the supplies for
e_the year.. Why were the representatives. of the
Keple assembled from every part- of the country,
but for the reason that they could
.give
.tlre trite in-
krtnation ,to the Government, of the nature and
txtent of those abilities, rather than the dependeu.s
!Ministers ? Those dependents .. ae etietested in
re prosecution of a war. The-tont-nu had been
tepold eatedly that:, ranee was on the eve of bank-
LtitPtcY that it was impossible she could keep op
.per artily, or recruit her' navy. Now. liClWcVtr• the
rime Nlieister had stated, that she had upwares of
.1,400 Sail of the line. To procure sailors to matt these
lesiself, the Sovereign of that country must be be-
holden to England, and. so lie had been, for the
Ining
e. of Copenhagen had recruited the Frenchl
11Y. The conscriptions, the Dutc seamen, and
11e sailors of America, would serve to complete the
111411.1 e force ; nor did they want land forces. As
1 her resources, they were unimpaired and imen-
eurnheted by debt, and was in fact in a situation to
,(I°Ploy those means and resources to any ?hied she
wise ; even to the destruaion of this country. He
was onencutnbered with colonies,while Great Britain
Muses
adding to her colonial posSeSsibns,which werethe
I"ses of embarrassment and weakness to the military
t;rength of the empire. Government had stated
failure in our resources to be secnewhere about
4,8°0,0001. The deficit in the revenue would be
°ll)ething more than in' arithmetical ratio, because
1
retuips for goods exported were 'repaid in de-
reeiated currency, making a balance against Eng-
actld of nearly 20 per cent. Before the adoption
the Orders 'in Councils,' America took of her
. l!roduce to the amount of 12 Millions sterling with-
in
„ the year, eight Millions of that sum was corn
"sed of the most profitable manufactures of the
10untry—i he repayment was made in tie most ad-
7411,tageous manner, one third of it being returned
t 1 the raw materials of America--which raw mate-
. ttals served to teed the manufacturers—the other part
Was p lid in hilts of Exchange on the Continent,
Which kept up the Exchange in favour of this coin-
trY, and redueed the price of bullion. At that time
• the country was obliged to purchase bullion to pro.
utv foreign coin to feed the starving manufacturers
who were now reduced to the eXtretuity, of insurrec-
tion, not confining themselves to on clistriot, but
tpreeding their mischief tO counties wfierethe woollen
'atottact tues wet e carried on. 'ln those counties they
the frames.' The proceedings which had
14er'. ,place were sofii:ient shew that thifvery
toot and stem of the manufaelures was cut down for
tter. To check this alarming insurreaibn,. What
ttnedy had been applied ?
.:Why, six weeks 2fter
!Ile meeting of Parliament (tire insurrection having
uen.existed for liree-months), a Bill is bronkl4 in
to convert into a capital (active, what .was betoce
etned a mi.lemeanour. In Iroikshire, more than
tiuelity machines had been destroyed: -Mate was
litely to arise itilhose po-puloui districts of Glegow,
of Manchester,' and Liverpool, where the di,tress
W4S still greater ? -From the fepor't- of the Coln-
tilittee appointed to inquire into state- of the
Paupers in the town of LiverPOol, it appeared, its

the tisonth of lahnary last, they had
from 8288 to 1.5,-3.50, being; in the short space
of one month, the enorthOus'inerease Of 706 i pau-
pers. Government; .to remedy this 'evil-Leii:telieVe
the distresses, had found out that there :Was'notliiiig.
so good for starvation as the gallows; 'thei lutist
therefore contra& for halters by whOlesalecin order
to supply the towns—of 'Birertingliani, Glisgo•-w,
Manchester and Liverpool.' The Hon. Gent. then
alluded to- the publication of die Prince -.Regent's
-letter, which he did with 'respea, at trie' same time
,takitig it as thead-of -tbe'Mihister, in' +eying ad-
vised it,•whicle.advice be- considered as insithouS,
end treacherous, inasmuch as it Went.to make his
Royal Highness the instrument of negociation 'be-
tween one faEtion and the. other. Coalitiorts; he
-observed, bad formerly been brought about between
Lord North and Mr:- Fox, between .Piff and
--Mr. Foxe and between- Mr. Pitt and the" Duke of
Portland, but in no bile instance bad these negoci-
_atm ever presumed to mike' use of thenameof
his Majesty•in the•public papers 'as a go-between,
for the express purpose, that Should'obloquyattach,
.it might fill on the' head of the SOVei-eigne. 'He.de-,
precaied the advice given by Ministers on two for-
Mier occasions, namely, with iespea.to the issue of
the Prodamation in Ireland, and theappOintnient
of the Prince Regent's Secretary- to an office which
Parliament bad interdicted long before, and: for
which, when Conferred; they refused the sUpplies.
Why was that advice, but to throw obloquy upon
the Prince Regent ? If .ticir advice was continued,
it was impossible to say hoWor where it would end.
—The Hon. Gentleman then went on to deprecate
the previous proposal made by Ministers two years
since to LOrds Grey and Grenville, the expediiion
to Waicheren, and what he derimitinatedthepitiful
negociation with America. The late proceedings in
Sicily did not result, from the Wisdom of the BiitiSh
Cabinet, because Lord W. Bentinck was comee:led
to quit his station, and come home for instmeslions,
and it was to the great ability of the Marquis Wel-
lesley that the country was indebted `for the suc-
cessful result of that mission. Adverting to the si-
tuation of Ireland, be contended that the issue
the hoe proclamation was with a view, not as usu-
ally, to declare the law, but to explain; inodify, and
extend it. Such a proceeding had led, formerly, to
bad ederas. James 11. lost his. crown `in 'conse-
quence of suspending and al'ering,the law. Was
it necessity that indeCed the Proclamation ? Cer-
tainly nor ; . for' the meeting of the. Coneen-
tiou was on the 2d or Julk, end it did not issue
till the -3oth all that while it lay seug under
the cushion of Dr. Duigenan to the Pr ivy coun-
cil. And though the Doetor had pledged his
word not to interfere wit.. the question of Catholic
Ernancpation, he could no. rtrta,n from signing his
hand to this pette manifesto. The discontents in
Ireland were asleep till that issueu. The w hole of
the numbers added- to the conventions were only
t 75 sueet 1792. It was evident, that if they ex-
, petted any benefit from the new, era, they, like
other persons, would be disappeinted. Having
. dwelt for some time upon the topic of Catholic
Concessiens, the Hon. Gentleman trusted that the
subjeel.would not be agitated this night : neither,
he-observed, should he say any thing but one word
upon lauB4 ) He trusted that the table
'would groan with petitions froni the Engli,h Ca-
-1 holies in support of the Irislt Catholics. tie Hon.
Gent. noticed the state,'ll-nt Made- 'by. die
Honourable Secretary (Mr Pele) respeetteeeg.tier
Bryan. Ween a pght lionnurible Oentlema, in
a former evening; ietrodoCed.' Major: Bryan to. the
'House; ought at the same time' to have stated
who he w7,ee He ought to. -have stated that Major
Bryere ee gentleman of considerable influence,
great merit., and distinknished loyalty, who,-Paving
entered-ibeArmi; bad risen to the rank ofa-Cap-
lain.' He wanted to pnrch'ase a Majority in the'
e service, but Lad been iv' bidilen" to do so: la e'en-
.
• •
sequence of-this, he had been obliged to'?Pa the
regiment in 'winch he had served, and,pisi9O
.at a
time When he coeld not help seeing many 'Foreign
Catholic in brgher situations in the,arMy •tjtan arty
to which he bad aspired. If that Officer hailcon-
tinued in the army he might probably now have
ranked very high in the profession. He' not
wish at present to go into the discussion of the Ca-
tholic Question, he thought it would be better defer-
red till after the Catholic Petition had been presented;
he wished them to look at the present state of this
country, at its commerce, manufactures, and reve-
cues. The situation to which these were reduced,
however, it should seem, Was not sufficient for the
ambition of the present Ministry, and they were
now abuut to array in arms against us another quar-
ter of the globe, and, this too at an aria when we
were engaged in an unprofitable war, when we
could enttrtain little hcpe of ultimately gaining that
for which we had been fighting, and when there
was a) probability of the wae being brought -to
a conclusion, but through . our impotence to con-
tinue it.. If at such a crisis Ministers refused to
go into a COmMittee on the State ot the Nation,
it could. not but be said that they had biought the
country into such a situation that they w!itilied to be
blind to it. That they were at once afrai'd of look-
ing on the evil, and incapable of supplying a
remedy.

•
Mr. RQBINSON was glad that it was not :necessary
to reply at gFeat length. He would not travel
.all
over the world as the Hon. Baronet had done, nor
as hid been done by the Hon. Gentleman, who,
wishing to avoid it,. had followed to same course.—
He, howeer, could by no means agree with the
motion of. the Hon, Baronet. He knew it was
not uncommon for stich propositions to be submitted
to Parliament, but such had been s-Jdom acceded
to ; and the more he had thought
,on the subject,
the More Le was,satisfied that to refuse to go into
such Cpuninittees was ps;rfectly right. . He, thought
it would have been much better if the Hon. Gen-
tletuao, inoead of proposing to involve the House in
all the embarrassment and labyrinth of a Committee,
bdcYcotne -forward with some distint proPosttiOn on
those points in winch he thought. the system acted
upon by
.the regent Ministry was wrong...., He
azreed with the last speaker that it would be impro-
per to go into the state of Ireland at plesent,,The
papers recently moved for. respeding America,. had
been refused on the grouncL that it would be un-
wise to enter at present 4irito the discussion to
which they 'might be expeded "to lead.
.;,How
then, he would ask, could the House go into a
.Committee op the State of the• Nation, if Ireland
and our relations with /Intel ica were not to be dis-
enq,pri ,nrAlinn r,vrlghi-I;?Ntr

'Which Was lots cotiie on in a few days, furnished an-
other argument against going into the proeosed
Committee. Still, hoWever, though he was averse
to the Motion, he could not eieW the state of the
nation in the same gloomy light with the Hon. Ba-
eonet;'He did not wish to slibt his eyes to the
danger; be thought it wit wise to look it in the.
face ; but ire thought it should be met, not by a con.
feiSion 'Of our weaknesS, but by an exertion of our
strength. He believed it, to be pretty generally the
isehee of the.cotantry • that we. had been forceO into
-the preienewar, and that ehe negotiations which
had'-'been entered into had failed, not through any.
fault on Our part." This, though it might not 'be
-the feeling of Gentlemeriopposite, was, he believed,
the general feelingof the country ; and this being
.the case, that whiCh we had to consider was, .how
• we could besfcarry On the war ? 'On this setbjea his
opinion was, that an offensive war was better than
a 'defensive War ; the:• letter being, as it had been
characterised by a very eminent writer, a war of
fear carried on agaiust ft rce. ne. then adverted;
to the wers.in the time of Queen Anne, andeehe
seven years Werin which Englend assisted. the king
ot Prussia against one of the most formielehle coali-
tions that was ever formed against the independence
of any nation. These he brought forward in eindi-
catiorofehesystem of offensiee warfare.. 4103,,:
when the present • war brpke out, it had
.heerkthe
reproach of the 'Government, that they only made
defensive, preparations,
,when they. ought to. have
been ready to act upole. the effensive,. 'Since the:
period which he now alluded to, an army had been
created and imgaged•in many succefsstul:orrations..
.the‘Yreochllag shad been swept put of three,quer-
eers of th:gipbt...4 end if eee were now to. stop, lie.
'did not ihinke.thatehie would be a tine of policy the
country would,like. Ttte Retie feat ~,ee of tee sys-
relit which Oevernmeteeactedeen„ was that . which
might. be frece4 in e p icet ion of t he, energies, of
•outea may to the...pese Strain- lLerrore-, had oc-
curred in the conduciing of. the war, such „as the
H cilentienian had de,erihed, .it did not to him
(Mr. 14 veep- to. follow, that oe that account no
attempt ought to be made-to repair them. Gene-
rally sCeakingeeehe "Oppositienecelled. forth. by the
'conduct of MiniSters had not been so much directed
to the war itself iii the, Penineule as to elle point to
weiee it bad been directe'de ,The Hon. Baronet
himself, he remembered, .had leid the plait of a war
u the Peninsula; he had thought thecae= might
beeatfaeked with advantegeepre the Aide
lunta but hosee; could he reconcile .thie.clan with
his preseht. language ? pli.a). of the H0n..1i.!
ronet was no coasting project, it had a greater ob.-.
eect ; and.how could he reconcile such it plan with
what he. had that eight staled teethe. Hopee.? Sure-
ly be would not have acted. on secli a plan as
that which he had had in contemplation, - and
• then withdraw our assistance, because the pros-
pect was chequered
.by misfortune. Such ought
not to be the conduct ed. England,: but on. the
contrary,
her coinage Sought. to rise with the
reverses she might he fated to experience. The
war in :the . Peninsula had been a heavy , drain
on France, though this had not been mention-
ed by those who preceded him in the rieteee• In no
part of the world had the. eyer had such 'difficulties
to encounter. Bct eienerals had there found- it irn-
predicable to carry on a campaign on those principles
to.which they. weed their. successes elsewhere. They
had de Spain, it was true, defeated army 'after,
army, but their successes bed not been such es they
wereinether countries ; they found it impossible to
extinguish the spirit of a gallant and justly exaspe-
rated people., The war had been Trotraiited for near
lour years, though it had, been said by thy French
Reler Mille first campaign, that by Christmas, not
a village .in .-Spain should dare .to be. in .arms. fie
had.threatened, that when the English' ',ended.; he
ewould di ive the' leopard, as ,he choie to call our
ermy, inteethe7esea, 'arid place the French flag'on
.the towers ofJeisbon. .After the battle of Ta;aveta,
on the retreatewhic.h.eook .place subsequent to that
aeTiou, he predieted. tart.ncrteone Englishman should.
remain, in ehe.. Penises* at the expiration of. enotlier
-y ear ; and, oz.. the:: annivt...rsin yof that day, the
next year,..his. treops 'were again defeated at Briseco.
.The.mpeosition7to the.invaderecontinued even when
there was.nct. a Spaeisti' fortress in Catalonia; N f-
varre, 4rragon, andepart bf Castile; •but it was im-
possible that such a ipiat of resistance could have
been kept. sip without ;British co-operation, which
had in Portugal 'most effe6tually served the cause of .
_Spain. France,. from the desolation which had
been spieadearound, found Pie greatest imaginable
difficulty in maintaining her armies in the Penin-
sula. Of this, the letters of the. Generals and the
Ministers- of fluOnaparte,. documents, the mullet-) •
ticity of which could .not be doubted, afforded suf-
ficiept proof. From the correspond,eice which had
passed between the Duke ot Seoul Fe. and Joseph
_lluonoparte, it would be seen, that at., that period
400,000' men and e 00,000,000 francs, attempt
to subjugate the Peninsula had cost France, yet the
Peninsula had not been subjugated,: If we were now
to withdraw our troops and leave-Spain to her fate,
though her population he believed would releetandy
bend to the yoke of France, yet a&ing so, of hearty
friends we shauld make the must vindictive foes 5
our pledged honour forfeited, our disgrace would be
published all over Euterpe, is 'nothing could tend
more to sttengthen the representaiions which the
Ruler of France; was in the hahit ofetiakingeof the
condle.s-A.of England towaidse her allies. It, in ad-
. dition to the calamities. which' the Honourable Ba-
eronet had desci bed as lia'ving Wien en the country,
we lost our honour and our high character, we
might ultimately fall, and fall unpitied. It would
.be said that England 'was once looked upon-as
noble—AS one of the first countries in the world-
- as the- protetior of the general liberties of Europe ;
but her fears forher own safety had disappointed all
ewho looked up to her for proteetioe and support.--
,
It would be .said that the tnorbentl he danger came
near home, site withdrew. her, energies from the
struggle, and " proper vitarn vivendi. perdere
.causal." " If wedo tail," said the Lion. Gentle'-
, man, at the close of a very able speech—

- " Let us fail nobly',,
" 13 ut screw your courage to the sticking place,
" And we'll not Lid."

111 r. WHITBREAD said, that after the good"h
moored speech of the Hon'. Gentleman,- he would
not have iroubled th:Housc, if he did not think n of
great importance to obtain from the Right Homan-
able Geutkm3n, the Minkter of the country, a StZl!e-
ment o hißviews, and from the Noi-4. Lord

nistraiiott. TO dismiss wilat had been Stated with re•r
gird to th.e comparative abilt.iesOf individn3fs in as
few 'words as possible, he woille, says t',4► he ha('
al Ways acknowledged the powers of the Right H.,n.
Ge:itlemn (the Chancellor of the Eicliegn. r). The
-Honow able Gtfntlernan had attacked Ellin and other%

on the same side of the i iOuse 14' not joining .
the present Administrition ; but it was impossiblo
they could Aiwinist:-.1.-ion, hod r 46
axed Principle whatt vet. The Hon. Geottetnart
had addres3ed lihn as a Member for Bedford, and he
could assure hi n) there Was no siluaiiwr which the
Prince, could offer him, t)f which he could be so

proud. if be hod b(:).en cour,ted-as Gr,J a. a
Lord Grenville,were,.lie,would raii)r sink t ri thou-

sand fathoms deep, than sgcritice. his character as.
they must haVe done, if ttii,:y h i i joined the present
Mioisters, Their principles were diamerriCally op-
posed,. as to Catholte Emancipation, yet they, were
asked to :unite. it bad /beet:
theseleSv clays, that. it was. no longer to be 0111dt 4
Cabinet question ; it this-Was the errs?,
be. • [tested in the
.satne. wanner .with, the Slay®
7Trade, and postponed until. some ocher Administra-
tion,should take it_trp, and act.oioptish, by adqpt•
lug. it. with propel,. zeal. The Catholics, would It!.
tuember,Ahat a great.Ministei. had used his spendid
talents in vain, on the Slave Trade', and it I.y.is' not
until his successors applied their , induence iu
support of it that it was carried. it was kuot,yu
that the,' Lord Wellesley was favourable, to the Ca-
tholicS. it . was k,town that. the. Noble Lord nowt

on. trial with the Ministry (Lord Castlereagh), who
bad come dowtr from his former ele,ated 'situation

(alluding to his seat under the galier‘), to be a
tower of sire! gth, had ekpres3o tdio•elt favourre le,
and, to use his o.wn correct ph rasewogy , recom men&
ed a-final decision on an indefinite.question. Vet
tho• Noble Lord had,made no declaration that night
he had accepted. the office, or was about to do SO;
aud,it would become:him to state, whether he Meant
to vote fori the Catholic Claims or not. DA the
Right Hon, Gentleman,. who:had been always con.-
sistent in his opposition to them, mean to exereise
.leis influence against them ? If so, it was a delusion
upofl the Catholics. It .was impossible that Lords
Grey or Grenville .could have joined. There sat
the Noble Lord (Lord .Castlereagh), and such was
the state of Ireland ; and if there was no other rea-
son for going into aCommittee on • the State of
the 'Nation, this would be sufficient. Such Com-
mittees were inconvenient, and wete constantly
refused- by Ministers who were strong enough
to withhold them, but in ,the
.present situation
ofthe country, he did not think that any considera-
tion fur the convenience of Ministers could prevent
so necessary a proceeding. It was his duty to vote
for the good of the country. Ministers must be ha-
rassed, indeed, in their present situation, and there
were. fatigues out of that House as well as in
it which must make the situation of the Right Hon.
Gentleman far from enviable. The Noble Lord
seemed to hang between too offices. He wished to
know -which of lit-se two offices he 'was to have.--
The worthy Baronet who brought forward the mo-
tion had been charged with a wish to withdraw our
army from the Peninsula, though no such wish hod
fallen from his lips, neither let i. be imputed to hint
(Mr. Whitbread). Did the Beget Honourable
Gentleman know that the Marquis \Vellesly, the
brother, of the great Captain who was cooduet-
iiig the war on the Peninsula, had _quitted his
situediuu, at.2,_ was repia,,,,t he a
whom the most unsuccessful _expeditions had
been attempted, and would he say-that that was not
a reason for not going into a Committee ? Besides,
the Noble Lord had been arraigned fur bartering
seats in Parliament, and though he .had made a
gentlemanlikeaod.wiale defence, the people of Eng-
land would never:tut-get the accusation. WOh to.
gard to theists') people, whom if they did not grant
their claims, they shoQld at ail events, conciliate,
on lootzing to the Noble Lord, would they et-er'for-'
get the Union He. had quitted a :former CaLinet
-because the 'Catholic. claims were not yielded ;
and • now. at the connuenceinent .of a num reign
when the- golden hopes 6t the Cathol.cs wete _
vanished like' idle dreams, he came in with the
li-
berty, but without the pledge, to support them.. If
these was tiny man in the House who thought Mi.
nisters inefficient, he must vote to; the Committee.: ,
hoped that what lie had said in the course 41 •
debate would induce-the Noble Lord to rise and state
his sentiments, and that both he and the
.Itistht Ho-
nourable Gentleman would state their principle of

Lord .CASTLEREAGIT s lid, if he was perfectly
satisfied that the House was then- going to a division,
he would have offered himself to their attention
and die Hon. Gentleman w,is mistaken,
,if he sup=.
posed •that he hadnot the power to call him tip, In-
deed, he would rattier follow him; after the open;
manly manner of attack..which he was accustomed.
.to make, t han persons who would insinuate .more,
though they. had advanced less. Time Hun. Gent.
had not stated die question fairly. It syt.s- neither
more nor less than a determination ,to the bands of
what sort; of man the Goveruioept,shookt 13,,! Com-
mitted, under the existing difficulties of the. country.
He should abandou evert' principle, were he to ,gly4
• up the sy,te,n) on which Government hart prciceekted,
and which, he thoucht, could b-ast the support of
the Honourable Gentlenian himself. Ail those
who were 01 opinton that there was a middle
course to be taken, which, by. a -combination •of
(Treater talents, might conduce.-more to ihe interest
of the country, must, after the discussion of,
this night, dismiss that idea from their minds,/
and every man determine under what banners he
would fight. For his part, he saw. nothing in
the pri;.ciple professed by both, in which there
appe,irect a grewei difference than existed with Gen-
tlemen opposite, wll,-.11 they cattle together. Tnere
were as Many points of ditference, he 'bought, be-
tween Lor,t,Greavit!e arid. Lord Grey, whet) they
determined on on union. This expewtion was, w-
rV
r, now 0v,.:1*, and t,e thought,lt was wcll it should-
be h HO'' ro the public, that ii his
,ili.g9it Hon.
Fricod's (thechanctilor of the Exchequer) power
_was nrok,a) down, there was no midde !system to
,be pursued, but the country must take its option
we,;!n tl.e two.. fise did not char-g 4 tanry
man- li a dispo(iition no's ith :raw Our forces from
the war of !it Pectins eta, but after the eternal [ro-
pboviesand exagqe:atcli tears of the. Gentlernen on
the,utiter side, he would ak, ap.
spointuient be Spain iii t kt.te• were
to contitnAt am. a•sislance Tnu Gtnolemen on lilt