The Sun.
London, England, 1847-06-05 00:00:00

they conducted themselves improperly, they could be
rev' ked ; but the plan of giving them their
discharge as soon as they arrived at the end
of their journey, might lead to great evils.
He therefore contended that the views of the Right
Hon. Gentleman were perfectly consistent with the
measure of her Majesty's Government. He did admit
the difficulties of controlling distant colonies, but the
spirit ot economy, which was meant for the good of the
country, was too much developed over the other side of
the world. A more liberal *expenditure would secure them
a better inspection, for the amount of remuneration was
not at the present moment sufficient. The evils which
were admitted to have arisen did so from the want of
the commonest vigilance, from the result of separation,
from the want of employment, and the want of accom-
modation. He believed that if greater facilities were
afforded they would remedy all these evils ; and the
Australasian colonies afforded the very best means to
effect the object which ought to be desired. They had
numerous natural prisons where seclusion was
effected by nature, and from whence escape
would be less frequent as this attempt would be more
difficult. All they wanted in Van Diemen's Land was
labour; they had in that country, with a population of
60,000, an area equal to that which Ireland presented
with 8.000,000. It was not his intention to impugn the
separate system, but the House should not so easily
believe that in this system they had the cure of all the
evils complained of; it appeared to him that too much
had been said in its favour, for it was a n torious fact
that many of those who were the best conducted con-
victs in Pentonville had proved themselves the worst in
the penal colonies. In the last report which had been
made upon the convicts who had been sent train
Pentonville, and who had obtained whilst there high
marks of confidence, in which it was statsd that they
gave way to temptation the first moment it was placed in
their power. The reason of this might ba that the
criminal was too soon exposed to danger, and in his
opinion the separate system would he much better pre,
ceded by the gang proposition. thus the criminal would
first receive his punishment, and when his mind was in
a healthy state, then the separate system would work
well. The second stage appeared to him to be encum-
bered with more than financial difficulties. There was
a feeling, a desire of reaching home, which
could not be gratified in the penal colonies.
and, therefore, one of the motives towards the reclama-
tion of the convict did not exist. Tiiey had the ex-
ample of a neighbouring country, France, on this
subject, where a military system existed, but so diffi-
cult was it to control convicts, that theugh a sentry
stood with a loaded eiece on the ramparts of their pri-
sons, yet still they found it impossible to make the
system work well, and whole districts were overrun by
runaway convicts, who carried with them all the
contamination which was the natural consequence
of their dissolute lives. A large portion of
the convicts might, under the present system,
be sent abroad under control. It' sufficient information,
pro tont), could not be obtained, he would wish to know
what course the Right Hon. Gentleman would propose ?
He was afraid that the system proposed by this Bill
would entirely fail. In 184.5, in Preece, under the penal
system, 7,961 men were withdrawn. Out of a popula.
tion ot about 35,000,000, about 8,000 had been removed
from the country. As to the general effect of tramper-
tation, he might refer to the advantages that accrued to
the penal colonies from .the system of transportation.
He would refer to the authority of Mr. Baker, a barris-
ter who, speaking of Sydney, spoke in the most favour-
able terms of the state of society there ; and this was
most important, because Sydney was a great resort of
convicts ; and then the vices of prostitution and drunk-
enness were, for its population, numerically small. He
thought, therefore, the case for the tote( abolition was
not made out so strongly as to call upon the House to
stave its assent to a system to that effece—(flear, hear.)
If it was intended to establish any sy -tem of transporta-
tion, and apply the system of giving tickets of leave, a
new and entirely independent colony would have to be
seunded for the purpose. There could be re, doubt that
the colony of South Australia owed its prosperity to the
assistance it had derived at an early stage of its exist-
ence from convict labour.
Mr. E. DZNISON had considerable fear, from what
had passed in another place, that the system of trans-
portation was to be put an end to, and a system of
exile, or voluntary banishment, was to take its
place. He was happy to sue that the system
was not to Let abolished, and that convicts
were not to be sent out of the country Sri exile as free
'nen, hut under supervision, and under a system 0,
tickets of leave. The present state et Norfolk I-land
was mainly owing to the maladnaini,tration of the af-
fairs of that colony. The course pursued by Captain
Macconochie was more adapted to the government of
persons not predisposed to crime, rather than to persons
who had, in most of the eases been twice convicted and
once transported from this country, and which could
only be considered as the worn of society, which had
risen twice at least, to the surface of the putrescent mass
of crime congregated in that colony. Upon the cam
inencement of his reign he distributed among the con-
victs allowances of grog, and entertained them with fire-
works and plays. It had been said that the sys-
tem of transportation was not looked upon as
it terror in this country. A report had been
aresented to the House by the Committee appointed to
inquire into the subject, in which it was strongly re
aimmend af that as capital punishment had b, err very
much reduced in extent, it was highly
.necessary that
-cue effc,iye secondary system of punishment stiould
kept up. The opinion of Mr. Baron Alderson, re-
'erred to last night by the Hon. Member for Southwark
was not a fair exposition of his Lordship's opinion. as in
the portion of his evidence directly hearing on the cities
tion of transportation, he stated that transportation was
ithselutely necessary. The °pin ons of Lord Denman,
tle Baron Parke, Mr. Baron Ro:fe, Mr. Justice Erie,
‘l.r. Justice Wightinan, most, if not all, of the suparior
ju ages in the Scotch Courts, Bisons. Lefroy and Peiine-
father, of the Irish Courts, were also decidsdly favour-
able to the continuation of the .ay stern of transportation.
is the most effective system of secondary punishment.
There was no doubt that the colonists of New
South Wales were favourable to the assignment system,
and he felt that if something of the nature of the assign-
ment system could be connected with the punishment of
transportation, it would have the best effects upon the
criminal, while it would directly benefit the chilly
to which he might be banished. The inhabitants of
many of the penal seitlements found a difficulty in pro-
curing tree labour, and they were naturally anxious for
the establishment of some system which should enable
them to take advantage of the services of the convict.
He thought, therefore, that Government ought to turn
their attention to this branch of the subject. He was
quite ready to leave the matter in their hands, and he
coped, now they were about to introduce some improve-
ment into the existing system of transportation, that his
suggestion would not be lost sight of.—(Rear, hear.)
Sir JOHN PAKINGTON could not agree with the
opinions expressed by the Hon. Gentleman who had just
resumed his seat, nor could he concur in the
plan which her Majesty's Government had
oniught forward, no doubt with the best in-
tender's. This question of secondary punishment
had occupied the attention of successive Parliaments,
but instead of its leading to any improvement in the
system it would appear that year after year the subject
was becoming more unsettled and more confused. He
had carefully-examined the speeches of the Right Hon.
Baronet the Secretary of State for the Home Depart-
ment, and ot t.l.e Noble Lord the Secretary for the
Colonies, and he must express his regret that it ap-
peared to him that her Majesty's Government
had not paid that attention to the subject which
41 importance demanded. It was said that die
probationary system, as established by Lord
Stanley, had failed. Now Honourable Gentlemen
who made that assertion should remember that Lord
Stanley made his experiment under very difficult cu.-
cumstsatc,s; but supposing the probationary system had
failed, it did not therefore follow that the punishment
of transportation ought to be abolished. He had the
fullest confidence in the probationary system. It had
never yet had a fair trial, and he very much regretted
to find-her Majesty's Government proposing their pre-
sent plan as a permanent one. The Right Honourable
Baronet opposite, in a letter he had writtsn to Earl
Grey upon the subject of this plan, said it was
to be an experiment ; why, then, had the
Right Honourable Baronet departed from the
declaration contained in that letter. Now, let him
point out one of the difficulties which surrounded this
plan. Under the existing system, it occasionally hap-
pened that the sentence of transportation was passed
upon an offender, and yet, from the complicated nature
et' the law, the criminal often left the dock without
knowing what would be his real punishment. Now, the
difficulty of such a system had long been felt, but under
the change now proposed the law would be rendered still
mere uncertain. The sentence of transportation if this
plan were adopted, would some times turn out to be
merely a tirade of words, and the criminal, after his
trial would return to his cell, not knowing whether he
was to be shut up in a prison at home or sent abroad
evith his family to a flourishing colony, and there se
free to enjoy a state of things that was far more pros-
perous and happy than the condition of the honest
labourer at home. He could not agree in the propriety
of such a change, and he regretted very much that it
should have emanated from her Majesty's Government.
He did not point out these defects in the plan from a
factious opposition to her Majesty's Governne nt; but
with the view of pointing out the difficulties they were get-
ting into by adopting baste, changes in the law. To the
first portion of toe plan, he would give his support. It
would prove a satisfactory change in the law, and he btu;
no doubt it would produce the most beneficial results.
upon criminal offenders; but with regard to the second
stage of the plan, he entertained the most unqualified
opposition to such a change. He did not see any reason
for depriving the honest industrious labourer of em-
ployment, by bringing the criminal offender into compe-
tition with him. Such a piteposal was opposed to all
principles of sound legislation, and he was surprised to
see a gentleman with the experience of the Noble Secre-
tary for the Colonies, advocating such a change in the
system. These were the views he entertained upon
the subject. He was sorry to have detained
the House so long, but after the remonstrances of the
other House of Parliament, after the expression of the
opinion of the judges against the charge, he did hope
the measure would not be proceeded with, and should
any vote be proposed to arrest the progress of the Bill
he should certainly support it.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUME said there were few subjects of more
importance than that at present before the House. With
respect to the Bill itself, he must say that he entirely
concurred in the principle of it, as he thought
the general central superintendence which it created
would be attended with the best possible results. One
of the grand evils at present existing in the
prisons of this country was the want of uniformity, and
ne was long of opinion that they should have been
changed, and that they should be under one individual
inamagemena There ought to be a Minister of Public
Justice, to whom should be confided the general sum.-
zuteudenco of all matters of this kind. He listened with