The Sun.
London, England, 1841-06-05 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON. SATURD-k Y. JUNE 5, iSil.

declared his opinion on that subject. In 18.31 he said that if
it appeared that a 111inister brought forward .measures for the
good of the country, and found himself defeated, refcrenci
should be made to the opinions of the country. Such was th
opinion of the Noble Lord in 1831, and why was it not his
(pinion now? The Noble Lord had assented to tliis opinion
then,why support this resolution?—(Cheers, and cries of " rh,
oh !") On the whole state of the case, and the whole ease of
the Administration, I beg the House to consider that this
is a resolution supported and made out by a reference
to various legislative measures, the Ministry having, brought
forward more tegisla'ive measures, and carried more legislative
measures of a useful nature titan perhaps any other Ministry
with the exception of Lord Gley's.—(Cheers. ) • • With respect
to the state of affairs of the administration of the executive I beg
the House to consider that during the whole debate no debt'.
quency has been proved against us.—(Cheers.) No weakness
has been shown—( Cheers, and counter cheers)—eitherat home
or abroad. The Right Hon. Gentleman on one occasion ac-
cused us of wishing to abandon a vessel we were found unable
any 1 eager to manage. I must say with regard to the present
state of affairs I see nothing to induce any 111inister to
des:re to quit office, or_ any gentleman to be wiwilling
to accept office. On the corerary, I think the state (if affairs
at home and abroad is such as to give great facility to the Ad-
ministraeion, that the affairs of the country, if we leave office,
will be found in as flourishing a condition, and its character to
stand as high as ever it did.—(Loud cheers.) Your only
difficulty is an unwillingness to deal with interests which are
opposed to measures useful for the future welfare of the coun-
try.—( Cheers.) If you can deal with these interests with
(Inc care, giving them every consideration due to their
long establishment, and taking upon you the alteration of the
law, proceeding on sound principles, and determining to go on
in the application of those sound principles—Cheers)—then
I say. if you do that, if the Parliament and Government of
the country can do that, then there will be no difficulty what-
ever in carrying on the Administration.—(Cheers.) If you
do not do that, if you will undertake to protract vicious legis-
lation, to consider the interests of particular classes rather than
the well-being of the whole, then, indeed, you may enter upon
a protracted struggle against measures founded in sound policy,
and which are certain ultimately to triumph.—(Loud cheers. )
Sir R. PEEL—Sir, a great deal of the speech of the Noble
Lord was occupied by information kindly conveyed to me as to
measures which I should discover to have passed, in case, after
the lapse of almost ten years, I should be cal'ed to office ; and
I have not the least doubt, if there should be in the House at
present, as there was some time since, some eminent stranger
to whom the speech of the Noble Lord could be translated, and
who might be presumed not to comprehend the Parliamentary
history of the country, that emizent stranger might suppose
that I was a person to whom it was necessary for the Noble
Lord to convey information of the measures to which
he had alluded—(Cries of " Hear, hear," and cheers)—that
I had been excluded for ten years from Parliamentary ex•
perience, and had taken no part whatever in those measures
—( Cheers.) I can assure the Noble Lord that such re-
miniscences are unnecessary. With many of these measures 1
am fully conversant—l think I know something of the con-
solidation and amendment of the criminal law.—( Cheers.) It
is true I did not appoint a well paid Commission--(Loud
cheers)—to sit for years. I effected those improvements with
no other aid than the ordinary official assistance—(Cheers)—
and after the testimony I heard borne to their utility from that
side of the House, I think it hardly necessary for the
Noble Lord now to claim exclusive credit for them, and to re-
mind me that such things were done.—( Cheers.) Then with
respect to Dissenters' marriages. During the short period I
was permitted to hold office in 1835 one measure which I in-
troduced was a measure for the removal of grievances of which
the Dissenters complained, both in respect to marriage and
baptism—(Cheers)—and upon my statement of that measure
on the part of the Government I well remember that to the
principle of that measure, to the spirit in which it was con-
ceived, ample testimony was borne by those who now inform
me of these matters before unknown to me.—(Cheers. )
With respect to the English Tithe Commutation Act, I think
I should know something; for though it is true that the Noble
Lord did, after the lapse of three years, introduce the compul-
sory clause—an important alteration, no doubt—yet with
that exception the whole of the Bill of the Noble Lord was
copied from mine. Again, with respect to the Irish Tithe
Commutation Act, all that I know is, that after a laese of three
years—after much confusion, and disorder, and bloodshed in
Ireland—(Hear)—and I was not responsible for that—after
three years the measure which I had introduced in 1835 was
tardily and reluctantly assented to by the present Govern-
ment. The Noble Lord says, " Do not feel too confident as
to the permanency of that settlement."—(Cries of " Hear.")
Oh, no ; I feel no such confidenee.—(Loud cheers.) I know
that the Noble Lord has the power to disturb it.—( Re-
newed cheers.) God forbid that the pressure of political ne-
cessity should ever induce the Noble L,.rd to disturb that
settlement.—(Cheers.) But I should feel much greater con-
fidence in its permanence, if I could be assured that no such
necessity would occur than if the necessity did occur that it
would riot be yielded to.—(Cheers.) With respect to the
Irish Poor-law Act, do I not recollect the bitter and en-
venomed opposition to that law which the Noble Lord met
with from those who were the chief supporters of his Govern-
ment? And do I not know that with respect to
that measure, or the half-measure to which the
Noble Lord thought it necessary to recal my at-
stention do I not know that without my aid the
Noble Lord weld not command the necessary majority:
With respect to the English Poor-law Bill, does the Noble
Lord really think'it necessary to inform me, as if I had been
banished from the House, that the Poor-law Bill had been un-
der our consideration ? Again, on the Jamaica Bill, the No-
ble Lord says that I have no right whatever to taunt the Go-
vernment upon that Bill. I am not particularly conscious
that in introducing the present resolution I did offer any taunt
to the Noble Lord. I said that the Noble Lord had been
compelled to adopt the suggestions which I offered with re-
spect to the Jamaica Bill. The Noble Lord says that those
suggestions were slight and unimportant. And why ?
Because he says there was no difference. in prin-
ciple between us, inasmuch as I said that if the
Legislative Assembly continued refractory, sthe time might
come when I would consent to a measure similar to that of the
Noble Lord. But then, if the difference between us were
unimportant, how did it happen that the Noble Lord, on the
rejection of his motion, resigned office?—(Hear, hear.) And I
yet the Noble Lord seeks refuge in the authority of the Duke
of Wellington, from the deliberate acts and expressions of him-
se.f and his Cabinet ! In the course of this Session of Parlia-
ment, the Noble Lord was compelled by a sense of duty and I
necessity to admit that it was well our counsels had prevailed,
that our predictions had been verified, and that there had been
no necessity for sacrificing popular Government in Jamaica,
and to set an example for its forfeiture in every other colony
which had liberated the negroes. The Noble Lord, instead
of disturbing the peace of society throughout our West Indian
colonies, and shaking their confidence in a representative form
of Government, in consequence of differences which he now
says were unimportant, but which were important enough to
justify his abdication of his trust, was compelled to admit that
by taking our advice lie has secured the object to which he
had looked, and had prevented the confusion and the disturb-
ance which would have followed the abhorrence of his own
principles. For my part, I recollect not only the measures
which have been passed, but also the danger that had been
averted through our interference—danger which without our
assistance he would not have had the power to overcome. What
would have become without us of the question of the Ballot ?
—( Hear, hear,) What would have become of the New Re-
form Bill ?—( Cheers.) Would the Noble Lord by the strength
of his own hands have been able to prevent, in the midst
of the 'storm, the raising of the anchors by which the Briti•li
Monarchy was moored?—( Loud cheers.) What would have
become of many of the prerogatives of the Crown if it had not
been for our intervention ? Why, have I not seen the Noble
Lord abandoned by those who will give him their support
this night? Have I not seen them not only .acting in
direct opposition to him—but have I not seen him
sit almost alone, while some of the most important preroga-
tives of the Crown were under consideration, with seemly ten
of his official colleagues to assist him in their vindication ?
(Cheers.) I recollect, therefore, not only the measures which
have been prevented by our opposition—which have been
modified at our suggestion—which, when good, have been car-
ried exclusively by our aid—but I also recol'ect the important
changes in the British Constitution, returning once a year,
which the Noble Lord used to deprecate. I recollect all these
things, and I know it has been by the aid of the Conservative
party, that the Noble Lord has been able to avert the evils
which he apprehended. The Noble Lord described the present
Covet 'anent as a Government successful abroad, possessing the
confidence of the Crown, and submitting important measures
for the consideration of Parliament. But let me ask the Noble
Lord how it happens that with all this glory and these advan-
tages, he has not possessed more of the confidence of the House?
The Noble Lord says that I had promised to take a calm re.
view of certain matters; but not of those matters, surely,
which I had debated over and over again in this House.—
,
(Ch( ers.) Among other differences which I should find from
the time when I left the administration of affairs, I should find
this :—.l left a surplus of two millions after an administration
of three years, during which the public debt had been re-
duced twenty millions by the Administration of which I was a
member, while the interest of the debt had been reduced one
million per annnm. Among other changes 1 should find a de-
ficiency of eight millions on an administration of five
years. (Loud cheers.) True I sllou'd find reform,
true I should find the Poor-laws, true I should find
the Jamaica Constitution preserved— ( Cheers)--true I
should find that I,had introduced into a certain Canada Bill—
into the preamble—au amendment, which the Noble Lord
at the time told me would be fatal to the Lill and to the Go-
vernment— (Cheers) which Government, although such
amendment was introduced, still oecueies office.—(Loud
cheers.) True, I should find all these changes ; but my satis-
faction in finding them would be much abated when I found in
the midst ef all these successes—when I came to consider the
state of the finances, that in five or six years of administration
there had been a deficiency of 7,600,000/. (Loud eh( ers)—
and it was with reference to the means of supplying that de-
ficiency when I expressed my doubts as to your whole system
of finance, when I had declined all your proposi-
tions, that you came forward with the demand that
I should come forward and state what measures I would pro •
thatpos e —ifcclh%eveerrse) —and said that
k el
otileelwl woul(diul propose
d certainlyen,,ontshiing
der,
tbuthie
causes of the deficiency, with a view of devising some method
of making it good. You have at your command all the
sources of official information ; you can command the assist-
ance of all these holding public situations; you have every
means at your command of knowing the causes which led to
that deficiency ; and then you tell me, without any of those
official sources of information, that it is my duty to suggest. to
you the means of supplying that deficieney.—( Loud cheers.)
I now come to the constitutional objections which have been
made to this resolution, and I must say it has been impossible
to discern an objection to the resolution on constitutional
grounds, without deserting every principle for which
Whigs have hitherto contended.—(Loud cheers.) 'rho
niece ogenisssi
ut4rt,ul
di
le:: n reso-
lution, Right Honourable the Secretary at War says that the resolution
is merely an abstract proposition, that it merely lays down a
dry principle of constitutional law. Does the Right Hon.
IGuteinotnl,e mwainthroeuatllybelie
referenceve tthoaattr:ainelymemipmgaruntmaw:itflal
t
has been brought forward ? I really propose by.thet resoe
I ition to lay it down as a proposition that eyelty elifilstry so4h
finds itself In a minority on
ought to resign ? Do 1 contend for that principle ?—( Cheers. Q)
roefsigthneeoffinc4ivr osetiM-e
Do I say that if a Ministry, on the first fermatien of a Go_
vernment, finds itsi If obstructed in its legislative course be a
powerful opposition, it is bound to resign ?—(Cheer,.) ;0-f
course I should not so condemn myself, and the example I set
in 133.5•—(Cheers.) Do I say that any Ministry, finding
itself in a minority, is bound to resign by this resoluti'o'n ? No.
--(Cheers.) No Government woule be bound by it ; and if I
were in power, you might taunt Inc as inch ytlet Pleased
with this
LhS
oshyPrriloil:Qet
cheers
sintelimincludsenti
laughter
;hi ftebro
consider:fratioel.
(Si
tieihneeeesti
ryn
orinnieset4t7oinuiPlwith the circumstances of the present case. Wh) did
you resign,Dn the Jamaica question ? I maintain that the'dut
of resignation must, in every instance, be determined by they
hadishial lus larger 'danb and
peculiar circumstances of the case. The Noble Lord recollects
the Jamaica case. In that case the Ministry were net de-
feated—they were in a majority of five, but they considered
thet yictory indicative of e want of confidenct! incatshtei.,
Since that has the Government
they resigned.
measure of the confidenceemntLiontf:
Qthifne4dcucHeectoiunighseer eniftoCowmitniioilsie
On that occasion the Ministry took upon themselves to deter.
Arc they
cmoinnseidwerhedat,suuffinedieeratthoeinetdruccuemtthtaemncetos
rt.dnerwehtibche
IHwloyuslieeof
uCflieg
, their confidence? Now, I have the admission of the 11: ht
Hon. Gentleman that he brings forward the question
of Ihe
Corn-laws without even the expectation of carrying it.

- )id that seem as if they he'd the confidence of the
louse of Commons when they brought forward such a epics' ion
without the expectation of ca ruing it,' nteiely to agitate the
eiestion ? Wny, the Government had said tt at they hail
eistained such defeats. and suffered such humiliations, that
mating could reconcile them to retainin, office hut a para-
mount sense of the.r public duty. What had the ;Noble
-Lord, the Secretary for Ireland, said too years ago? Why,
after suffering innumerable taunts, he had summoned
up energy suffielent to make the frightful an-
nouncement that the Government had at length
•leterreined to exist no longerupon sufferance.—( Loud cheers. )
Two years ago the Noble Lord had toll us that they had suf-
fered such humiliations that their situation had become into-
lerable ; but they have suffe: ed several humiliations since—
" Still have they borne them with a patient shrug,
For sufferance is tho badge of all their tribe."
(Cheers. ) And therefore do not tell me that this resolution
will be referred to as a precedent in case of a single defeat.
Do not tell me that in such a defeat any future Government
would be called upon to resign. Do not me that the po-
liticians of future times will take the mere dry'bones of this re-
solution w ithout considering the circumstances under which it.
is brought forward. No they will look to your admitted sari, s
of defeats, to.your O'An -adinissions that -youreituation has be.
come intolerable—to your own boastings that you would
no loneer be content to exist on sufferance, to yo r
measures, your own acts, vour own confessions.—(t.heers. )
The e oble Lord, at the close of the debate, argued as if the
Government had had the confidence of the House of Com-
mons, while almost all his colleagues bad admitted that the
time had come when the confidence of the House was
not sufficiently manifested. They had admitted that
the Government was now placed in such a situa-
tion that it had only two alternatives—either resignation,
or dissolution of the present Parliament. Now limier us hat
circumstances did I give notice of tl:is resolution—( Cheers)—
this unconstitutional resolution, the facts of which, ant the
inferences drawn from which, are positively denied? But I
got this admission after the discussion of the sugar duties, that
the Government was placed in a situation where they had no
alternative but resignation or dissolution. The doctrine,
therefore; of retaining office after defeats was all at an end.
After the admissions that had been made. I think it cannot be
said that my resolution is so unconstitutional as has been re-
presented. Can any man survey the course of the Government
of this country and not see that the acts of the Legislature
are so interwoven with the acts of the Executive Govt.' xi-
ment as to render it impossible to separate them ? There
cannot be any doubt that the character and vigour of the
Government do not depend more upon the Executive than
the Administrative Government. As an instance of that I may
refer to the Roman Catholic Relief Bill, the Reform Bill,
the Poor-law Bill, and the Repeal of the Cornslaws; those were
the great measures by which the fate of a Ministry was deter-
mined. If the legislative and administrative Government were
not placed upon an equal footing, the Crown might labour to
place the House of Commons in opposition to the Constitu-
tional body, and lower the Reuse by inducing it to reject
popular measures. See what is the position of the House of Com-
mons. The House disapproves of the Government. The
Government says, " We are independent of you •upon legisla-
tive measures; that which is your peculiar function we will
disregard ; our conduct shall not be influenced by your rejec-
tion of our measure ; nothing but an interference with execu-
tive administrative acts shall influence our destiny." The
House of Commons knowing, then, that the only way in
which it can influence the fate of a Government is by
an interference with its administration, will press for
the production of dispatches, the production of which may
be injurious to the public service ; the House of Coin-
mons may question appointments made by the Crown,
knowing that by the exercise of its ordinary legisla-
tive control it cannot interfere with the Government. You
are offering the greatest inducement to it to der:et from its
proper sphere and interfere with- executive prerogatives.—
The Hon. Member for Lambeth says that history is to con-
stitute no precedent for us, that in consequence of the Reform
Bid we are to disregard the precedents of all farmer times.
—( Hear, hear.) Why, I should have thought that a great
advocate for the Reform Bill might have said. " The Re-
formed Parliament-has a right to exercise a greater influence
over the Government than an unreformed Parliament," but
for an Hon. Gentleman to contend that the Government is to
be indep, ndent of Parliament, because Parliament is reformed,
is a most unconstitutional doctrine.—(Cheers from the Tory
benches.) But these are the shifts to which you are pushed,
to find a plausible objection to the resolution which I have
moved.—(Loud cheers.) You are obliged to abandon every
constitutional principle which you have hitherto maintained, in
order to attempt to show that my resolution is at variance
with the spirit of the Constitution. The Noble Lord has re-
ferred to alr. Pitt and Mr. Fox in support of his position.
I thought that I had the other night proved that Mr.
Fcx recognized the principle that the confidence of
the House of Commons was necessary to the Ministers
of the Crown. The Noble Lord had read a passage to-
night, which seemed to assert another principle. Out of
the Fame page I will produce the authority of each of those
great men. (The Hon. Member then read a passage from
Mr. Pitt and Mr. Fox, to the effect that the confiiit nee of
the House was necessary to the existence of an Adminis-
tration.) If I have the admission of the Government that
they do not possess the confidence of the House of Commons,
they ought either to resign or to dissolve. if 1 have got
the affirmative of my first proposition, on what ground do
they reject the second? What were the circumstances under
which I moved this resolution ? On Tuesday, the 18th of
May, the Noble Lord was defeated by a majority of 36. He
proposed an adjournment until Thursday, the 20th of May,
in order that the Government might review their position. The
universal impression was that the Government intended
to resign. The Noble Lord had admitted that that. was anti-
cipated. The first proposition, therefore, cannot be so very re-
mote. On Thursday, the 20th of May, the Chancellor of the
Exchequer quietly moved that the House should on the Mon-
day following vote the existing sugar duties for the year. That
was the whole of the intimation conveyed to the House. The
question was put to the Noble Lord when he intended to bring
forward the Corn-laws, and the answer was, Friday, the 4th of
June. What reason had Ito infer that the Government me-
ditated a dissolution—what reason had Ito suppose on the Sa-
turday morning that the Noble Lord did not intend to put sue
his usual course and to conduct the business of Parliament in
the ordinary way ?—( Hear, hear.) I took time to deliberate
upon the course which I should pursue, and having no reason
to suppose that the Government meditated a dissolution, think-
ing that it was not d ing homage to the representative
principle that. after this long succession of defeats
they should remain conducting the ordinary busi-
ness of the country, I then determined to give the
Noble Lord every advantage which a direct, intelligent, and
straightforward course could give him ; and on Monday I
gave notice that 1 would, on the earliest day, move that the
Government had not the confidence of the House of Com-
mons, and that its continuance in office was at variance with
constitutonal principles; and it was after that notice was
given that we first heard of the intimation of dissolution.
( Cheers from the Tory benches.) Up to the period that
the notice was given, not a word fell from the Noble Lord,
not only had he not pledged the Government to dissolution, but
had indicated no intention, on their part, to dissolve; but
after that notice was given,—about ten minutes after,—the
Noble Lord got up and said that the Government did net
mean to bring forward the Poor-law Bill, because Alen.bers
would make speeches to recommend themselves to
their constituents. (Loud cries of " Hear, hear.")
Therefore the Noble Lord has accepted that alternative which
he admits to be inevitable, and if my motion has done nothing
else than this, to force the Government to the adoption of
that other alternative, it has not been absolutely nugatory ;
because at any rata it has forced an admission from the Go-
vernment that to retain power, conducting business in the ordi-
nary mariner, and without resigning or dissolving, would be
at variance with the spirit of the Constitution.—(Cheers.)
I admit that they had no right to dissolve without the Sugar
Bill, but having adopted the alternative, and determined not
to resign but to dissolve, it was their duty to adopt the re-
soluCon at the earliest possible moment.—( Cheers.) It is incon-
sistent with all usage and with the spirit of the Constitution
that the Government should be able to select measures for the
consideration of the condemned Parliament, that they should
withdraw some and select others, and bring forward those
only which were likely to damage Honourable Mem-
bers in the eyes of their cons ituents. "We shall
bring forward such measures as may serve our purposes,
but with regard to those measures which may be considered
essential to the welfare of the country, we shall exercise our
own discretion." Sir, I say there is no precedent for such a
course. ‘Vhen Mr. Pitt got the Mutiny Bill, after some
slight opposition from Mr. Fox, he dissolved the day after.
Lord Grey took the earliest opportunity of dissolving; but
whether there is any precedent or not, I say it is unconstitu-
tional, and contrary to Whig principle, to condemn a House of
Commons, and then exercise its own discretion as to
the measures it would bring forward. Nothing surprises me
more than the desperate fidelity with which the Whig
Ministers cling to the example of Mr. Pitt. They bring for-
ward the precedent of 1784 as a justification of all their pro-
ceedings. We had, first, the Right Hon. the Secretary at
War, then the Right Hon. the President of the Board of
Control, and then the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Co-
lonies, all anxious to plant their shoe in the footsteps of Mr.
Pitt. As Trinculo said, " the storm is coming, and there is
no hope of shelter except in creeping under the gaberdine."
The Noble Lord would not then depart from his gaberdine,
and the moment he showed his head from under it he uttered
some unconstitutional doctrine.--( Hear, hear, and laughter. )
But he had vindicated these two propositions, first, that the
Ministers had not the confidence of the House of Commons ;
and, secondly, that in coeformity with all constitutional pre-
cedent and principle, Ministers riot having the confidence of
that House, be should relinquish office.—(Cheers ) The
dissolution should be immediate, and the House of Com-
mons has no other mode of declaring its sense of the
unconstitutional tenure of power than bee moving some
such resolution as I have proposed. Sir, I' conillain tsf the
references that have been made to an individual Member of
Parliament like myself in the course of this debate. I com-
plain of the injustice of the imputations cast upon nee. The
Right Hon. the Vice-President of the Board of Trade claimed
perfect freedom of speech, and contended that the maintenance of
courtesy was consistent with the utmost latitude of seepele
The Right Honourable Gentleman said. he would
'Wean
unless
pickingyoume
aotultt
to
matters, unless you intended to re re-
sent my conduct and Thai be charged tee with
when the proposal
.a.ny
part in
doing all in my power to excite religious animosities at the
elections in Ireland in that year,
11stirr,RSI-IpIEEELL-1
to the date, I find
Tsahidenr
liytheatthdeidconyotruarmye.
timer 1 tvas
this Appendix certain
sent me as an advocate of Orange Lodges? Why. did you
refer to the Appendix at all to show that meetings of ninny
Intghe course which I
clitookotooli
connect
tepahetl
eta
incrnie:::
1110:1
mei rtnoehf, andpeormv
ee ss.r4l?oineNaron,poy:al.ita,,
otow_na?eoett
eh;
.er,
Now, Is it fair to act in this way ? Would it ice
.enoa.
'°•1""--ei an estimate of
- not be fair to
ntieman ought to have looked at the course
have taken in ostler to
The Right lion r" • my character?
the proposal was made to address the Crown to
I tools_
n .
FrFriends
animositiesn ds tahreoruen
mood
discourage Orange Lodges in Ireland. Sir, I say it is
not fair, and Ido not deserve it from those of the faith the
Right Hun. Gentleman belongs to—(Cheers)--that such
unjust imputations should be thrown upon me for the purpose
of raising excitement in Ireland, and propagating the belief
what
(Cheethat I would govern that country through partyasfemeliandge.—to
rs.) If I had encouraged religiousH
must have engaged the assistance of Orange Lodges ;
was my conduct in 1836,
discourage Orange Lodges? I was then in opposition, and
there was no compulsion upon me to take
me, who felt deeply on this subject, and to whom it would have
discussion. I was obliged to many
been pleasing had I taken no part. But what was my conduct
on that occasion? Sir, I did every thing I could for the aban-
donment of those Orange Lodges ; and whatever the Itioht
Hon. Gentleman may think, I have done more towards that
end, I have given more advice, Which lam happy to • say was
most willingly attended to, and having been accepted, has been
most religiously observed. I think it rather hard, thee, that
I should be taunted in the way that I have been on this sub-
ject. (The Right Hon. Baronet then read a long extract from
the speech made by him in 1836, on the subject in question, in
order to prove that he then discountenanced all se-
cret societies. Then came the Honourable Member for
Lambeth, who supposed that I brought forward this motion,
because I found that the clamour raised respecting the Poor-
law Bill had failed. And then the Hon. Member for Lincoln-
shire esked my opinion respecting the Charter.—( cheers and
laughter.) He says I have stated my opinion respecting the
e franchise,
but that I have stated my opinion respecting th • -ranese Ise
but I have not stated' it -with respect to the Chatter, anti that
was one of the reasons why he withheld his confidence from me.
Now, Sir, 1 will ask whether there is an honest doubt on It

t m4ll upon this subject, whether the course I took the
other tight on the motion for the release of the Chartist
Prisoner,. was not enough to satisfy him as to my opinion
orl! the subject? Can it be one of the grounds for his with-
hating his confidence from me that he doubts, although I
ha se dedared my opinion on the ballot and the franchise—can
he really doubt that I have some secret understanding with
the Char.ists ? Then, Sir, wills respect to the questions which
4te been put to me, they have been so numerous that
they really mate me a man of very great importance.
tihie Gentleman gets up and says that I withhold the expres-
sap of my opinions on the subjects of discussion—that I hare
picserved a great latitude. Why, I think my political prin-
(isles are pretty well known.--(Cheers.) Take the Co. n-
lass s, for instance. I should like to know who has come fur-
wrd noire than I have done in defence of the existing law. I
should like to know whether any man, looking to these de-
bates, CAI) have a doubt as to my desire to maintain a just and
adequate protection for the interests involved. The fast is,
you are so disappointed at the comae I have taken that
you want me to pursue the course which you do.
--s( Hear, hear.) You want me to call a meeting, and
move some resolutions respectiror the adjustment of this ques-
tini. The lion. Gentleman (Mr. Handley) says I ewe him
scone giatithde for his vote on the sugar. -duiiea The ilon.
Gentleman .considers that I am guilty of inerseitude because I
moved a resolution of want of confidence in Minister,, which
paces him in a difficult posi ion as to she vote which he shot hi
give on this occasion. The Hon. Gentleman thias that this
rp.s, hit ion of want of confidence is some trap made specially for
him—some immense pitfall for himself in particular.—
. (Cheers. ) Why should the Hon. rtlember demand g•alitude
tom me ?—gratitude from ore Member to another! One would
suppose that the Honourable Gentleman had lapped the milk
of Whiggisin from his earliest days.—( Hear.) I think
the lion. Gentleman in 1820 voted against the removal of
the Roman Ca.holic disabilities. With respect to the agri-
Cultural and manufacturing interests I do not wish to appear
the partisan of one party more than another; but I men-
tained that both in crests are mutually dependent on each
other. Don't I know that if I said I would support the
Corn-laws against a fixed duty and made no reset ve, why
such is the manner in which you fasten me down to every
expression—(Loud cheers)—that you would at once turn round
and say that I had incurred some positive obligation of
honour to stand by every detail of the present Corr-lags—that
I had comm tted myself, not to a graduated duty, but to
every detail of the existing law ?—(Cheers.) I know that
would be said, and that I should be held to have committed
myself to every figure and letter in the Bill.—(Cheers.) An
Hon. Gentleman asked me whether I would maintain the pre-
sent protection to agriculture ? If I had answered yes, he
Would have held that I had pledged myself to every detail of
the present law. I will not do that. I say I prefer the princi-
ple of a graduated duty. I think protection to agriculture
is consistent with manufacturing osperity.—(Cheers. ) Ido
not attribute the present distress of our manufactures to the
protection given to agriculture—(Hear, hear)—but I will not
bind myself against any improvement in the details of Ihe Corn-
laws. Suppose I had entered into these details—and suppose
I had afterwards altered them materially. Suppose I had
altered them in the proportion of 5 to d.—(Great cheering
and laughter.) I should have had great authority for it.—
( Cheers.) Why here is a Government who had ten months
to consider upon no less a question than the amount
of the franchise, that carte forward with details
immediately preliminary to the introduction ofa Bill ; they alter
the franchise froms/. to 81., and they then think it decent to call
upon me to commit myself as to details. —(Loud cheers. )
Suppose I had given the details, and afterwards, after a discus-
sion in Parliament, for the purpose of conciliating the votes of
three or four agricultural friends, or four or five at most, I had
altered my details. 1 wonder what imputations I should be '
subjected to. But those " Charter Libertines "—(Laughter
and cheers)—may alter their details at pleasure, to
conciliate the votes of three or four Gentlemen
behind them, and yet throw every sort of imputation
upon me because I confine myself to a declaration
of general principle, and not being in office refused to say what
taxes I would impose, or any thing about a property tax.—
(Cheers.) Yet, allow me to ask this question, why were not
these three subjects brought forward at an early tieriod of the
Session? What pretence was there for not having mentioned
any one of them in the Queen's Speech ?-4.Cheers. ) If you
intended at the commencement of the Session to bring for-
ward the subject of the Corn-laws and the Timber Duties, why
not mention them in the Queen's Speech? Is this the reason?
that it is contrary to all precedent to refer to details of mea-
sures until you are prepar.d to introduce them ; that it could
only have a tendency to agitate the public mind, and disturb .
the application of capital? If that is your defence,
on what pretence do you ask me to enter into
details ?—( Loud cheers.) But the Corn-laws form no
part of the Budget, yet the Corn-laws might have
been mentioned in the speech from the Throne. There
was no reason, also, why the timber duties should not have
been so mentioned. There is a material difference between
commercial relaxation and the imposition of taxes, but
on all great questions relating to free trade, there
is no reason why they should not be mentioned
in the speech from the Throne, and public attention
directed to them. It is this that excites suspicion, perhaps
ill-founded suspicion, of your motives. —(Cheers.) There is
an impression that you had two Budgets—one calculated for
fair weather, and another for foul—(Loud cheers)—and I take
it that it was not until foul weather took place that this Budget
was produced; then, I say, that to remove that impression you
ought to have announced some of these measures.—( Cheers. )
You describe these measures as involving many Important
principles—you declare that those are measures which must
ultimatetly pass—that the principles you avow must ultimately
triumph. Well, then, in justice to those principles, why
did you not urge them at an earlier period ? What was
your conduct on the subject of the Import Duties Committee ?
Your measures are founded entirely upon the report of that
Committee; but was it the Government moved fur that Com-
mittee? Was the Government aware even of the intentions
for which it had been moved?—( Hear.) Or did any one Ca.
bir.et Minister attend during its proceedings ?—( Hear, hear.)
Was there any one question put by the Committee
:stied be a Cabinet Minister?—(Hear, hear.) And did the
Right lion. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer take
any part in its labour ? No, not for one day.—( Hear, hear )
But the report of the Import Duties Committee contains all
those practical suggestions which the Lettislature is now
called upon to adopt. Surely you must have been aware
of the pressure of your finances last year; and
yet so little convinced were you of the soundness
of those principles which you now affirm to be essen-
tial to the salvation of the country, that you permitted that
Committee to be appointed without knowing its objects, and
not a member of the Government assisted at its proceedings.
If you thought it desirable to adopt the measuros recommended
by that Committee, why not have made that announcement
from the Throne ?—(Dries of " Hear, hear," and cheers.)
But if you thought further inquiry upon the subject necessary,
why not make a motion to that effect ? You did neither the one
ner the other; and it was not until the month of May that
you brought forward, at a time of pressing political necessity,
those three great measures founded upon the evidence of the
Import Duties Committee. I say that by the manner in which
you have brought forward these great questions, you have not
done justice to the questions themselves. And again I say,
that it these principles are so necessary for the national salva-
tion, is it not unfortunate that you cucumber them with
your help, arid create a prejudice against them, net
of individuals, but on account of your position as
the Executive Government of the country ?—( Hear, hear.)
There is, depend upon it, a prevailing feelints that those
measures cannot pass, on account of the mariner in which
they have been brought forward—(Hear, hear)—and I must
say now that your object being to remove the commercial
distresses of the country —your object being to restore con-
fidence and find the means of applying capital —I must
say that you are striking the severest blow against the
industry of this country—( Hear, hear, hear)—by iseting
left those great questions in doubt for an indefinite peri6d, by
setting party against party on such a subject as the Corn-
laws—by stirring up society from its foundations, and by com-
mitting against each other, in bitterness and d scord, clasper
whose harmony is ease tial to their mutual welfare.—( Hear,
bear.) You ate now about to dissolve Parliament on the cry
of cheap bread.—(Hear,hear.) You are proposing to substit site a
fixed duty for the present Corn-law. It is my firm belief that a
fixed duty will give no effectual protection to the agricultural
interests of Ireland, or of many parts of this country. The
good effects of it are entirely doubtful, and I think it may be
attended with evil. I telieve, too, yeu cannot paralyse agricul-
tural prosperity by a duty of one shilling per bushel on
corn, without seriously affecting the other interests
connected with agriculture.—(hear, hear.) But my firm
belief is, that the course which you have taken—that the ap-
peal which you have made—that the mode in which you have
conducted that agitation —that the incitement to agitat'
ion
given by your mode of introducing the so),"
belief is that the circumstances will" cot —my
time comes, make it impossible ."
mitten the
the application of a similar ar:iwai,
and YOut
o maintain
a irnetsaiint
that duty which you now staf.:e would be fixed and unalter-
able.—( Cheers. ) That iP my firm conviction, and I take my
leave of the discussion of the question, and 1 place it in the
hands of the Hous,:,, content, whatever may be the issue, with
the course which I have pursued, and which has been
less intended to give any party advantage than to
vindicate the just authority of the House of Commons.--
(Cheers.) Many may think that it would have been much
belles' to have permitted you to go on with the Corn-laws, and
to undergo three successive defeats—three successive mino-
rities—each decreasing in number. That might have
been the better and more politic course in a party
point of view. I know the advantage which I give you by
bringing forward this motion—l am content you should have
it, because I should ha abandoning my duty —( Loud cries of
" Hear, hear")—if after your determination to continue in
office, performing the functions of a Government, notwith-
standing the de feats you have met with, I hail acquiesced in
such a mune of proceeding, and had not called upon the House,
by some distinct declaration of its opinions, to affirm or to deny
that you do not possess the conlidenca of the House, and that
your remaining in office under such circumstances is at vari.
ance with the spirit of the Constitution. —( Loud cheers.)
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the house
divided, when there appeared—,
For the resolution
Against it...
Majority against Ministers —l
The announcement was received with loud cheers front the
Opposition benches,

On the question that the
H.buse do adjourn to Monday next,
there were loud cries of
Lord JOHN 111.T;;sE." Corn, corn," on which—
LL said that he proposed to go into
Committee "..r. 'Supply on Monday next, and that he then pro-
P?Sej...o r into the Miscellaneous Estimates for the purpose
of proposing those estimates, the deferring of which might be
detrimental to the public service. ( Cries of "Cor n." ) lie would
state on Monday what course he intended to ursue witk re-
gard to the Corn-laws.—(Opposition cheers.) He thought
it right to add that as the Right Hon. Gentleman, in his re-
ply, had thought it right to bring several fresh charges against
him he should consider in the meantime what would be the best
course to vindicate the Government.—(Cheers. )
Sir R. PEEL said that a great part of the speech of the
Noble Lord had been an atack upon himself. He should be
exceedingly sorry, if it were possible, that the Noble Lord
could impute to him that he had taken anv unfair advantage
to bring forward any new charges. It had not been his in.
tention to take any unfair advantage of the Noble Lord ;
and he had consequently, in his reply, said not one
word in relation to the foreign policy, or to many other points.
The Noble Lord might pursue any course he thought prrper,
but he had certainly Lot intended to take any unfair advantage
of his right to reply to bring forward any fresh charges, and
had confined himself to replying to the charges which the
Noble Lord had brought a,rairot him.—(Cher ra. ) He took it
for granted that on Monday the Noble Lord would state his io-
tention respecting the Corn dews.
Mr. HINDLEY did not care twopence about the eh irge,
but lie was exceedingly anxious that they should have a rii - s
cussion on the Corn-laws.—( Hear, hear.) He hoped that on
Monday the Noble Lurd wyuld tell the Howe flirt he was
determined to bring forward the question.—(llear, hear. )
Mr. HUME said he could riot understand why the
Noble Lord was not prepared at that time to
state it, as he had had ample time -allowed" As
Tuesday wns the first open day, he thought the Noble Lord
ought to fix that day before he left the HOW.
The Punishment of Death 1111 was read a third time.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at 'Twenty Minutes past Three, till Monday
next.

When a man is about to enter into the sta.a of
matrimony, he ought to have a clear underitanding as to
whether he is to marry one individual, or a whole family.

LITERATURE.
.LANDLORD AND TENANT.
By William Berwick, Esq.
(At the request of a correspondent we copy the
fuliowing notice o" this pamphlet from the Scot-
tish Pilot, but we cannot see oa what grounds
Mr. Berwick complains of the Marquis of Down-
shire. The lease had expired, and the landlord
:nieiit ask what rent he ph ased):—
The author, understanding that Mr. O'Connell had
• taken up the question of landlord and tenant, has ad-
dressed .a letter-to him for the purpose of acquainting
him with an act of oppression inflicted upon lum by his
late landlord, the Most llonimrable the Marquis of
Downshire, which, he says, will serve to demonstrate to
the world the absolute necessity that exists for the enact-
ment of a law to secure to the tenant jest and fair remune-
ration fur ins expenditure qf labour and capital, and his
enjoymant of the lands, paying fair and just rent. The
author says— . •

" With respect to t►i° motives which actuated his
L 4 wdship in treating me in the cruel, unjust, and tyranni-
cal manner he has done 1 shall not pass any opinion ;
but to enable you and the public to fia•m a correct judg-
ment on that head, 1 refa. you to the following nnrrati‘e
to which I beg leave to solicit your earnest attention.
In the first place, then, I wish you to understand that
for ten successive years I was a tenant of his Lordship,
holding under hint the mansion-house and farm of Us-
nabreen, in the parish of linockbreda, in the county
of Down ; I regularly got up petitions to Parliament,
praying for the total abolition of tithes and Church-cess.
" The very head and front of my offending kith this
extent, no more."

The author goes on to say—
" In despite of all the opposition I had met with, I
continued every Session to get up petitions which I for-
warded to Mr. Ruthven, Mr. M'Cance, Mr. Sharman
Crawford, Mr. Henry Grattan, Mr. Hume, and your
worthy self respectively ; and, if I mistake not, it was
owing to the representations you made, on presenting the
petition from Knockbreda, against Church cess, that you
had the good fortune to prevail upon the Minister to pro-
mise that he would either modify or totally abolish that
odious impost altogether. Whilst I was performing what I
considered a duty which I owed my fellow-countrymen, it
frequently occurred to my mind that the course I was pur-
suing was in direct oppposition to the wishes of the Mar-
quis of Downshire. I concluded that my conduct would
not be overlooked ; that I should be considered a marked
man, and that no mercy would be shown to me when I
went to demand a renewal of my lease ; the result proved
that I was right in my conclusion, for, when my lease
expired, his Lordship was not satisfied to raise my rent
most enormously, but he
.Also thought proper, contrary
to all precedent, to impose a rent on the,dwellinghouse, a
thing hitherto unknown in this country ! ! !
" The consequence was, my property was so much de-
preciated in value, that when I offered it for sale to the
Rev. Adam Hudson, I could only obtain for it three
hundred guineas, although it stood me altogether fully
eight hundred pounds ! thus sustaining a loss of four-
teen hundred and eighty-five pounds."