The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-13 00:00:00

ration of the article, as well as to a falling off in the reve-
nue dad an increase of taxation: In these statements be
entirely concurred. 14e did not behave that the people
of this country would be satisfied with the imposition of
fresh taxes while the revenue of the country might be in-
creased by an honest course of commercial policy.—
( Hear, hear.) However they might be met by the argu-
ment as to how particular interests might be affected, he
believed that the general prosperity of the country would
be most promoted by a strict adhere nee to the doctrines of
free trade.—(Cheers ) With regard to the argument of
the Right Honourable Gentleman, that he had been
taken by surprise, be would refer him to the debates which
had taken place fifteen years since. Ia 1825, Mr. Hus-
kis,on, in bringing in the Mauritius Bill, bad stated that
where ter the consumption of sugar in this country should
equal the production of the West laelica, and verge on
exceeding it, that there then would be no legitimate excuse
for 'maintaining the m )nopoiy, Ia 1838 the then Chan .
cellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Spring Rice, on introducing
a measure for the equaYzation of the sugar duties,
fold quoted the Noble bed the Member for North
Lancashire, and the Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for
Tainwortb to the same effect. Hew then could the West
India interest complain of surprise ? Vear after year for
the last fifteen years they hail been warned that they
were not to look to the continuance of the =naively,
( Hear, hear.) Would the Right Hon. Gentleman fix a
period at ethic's it would be mere convenient for the
West India interest that the change should take place
then at present?—(Curers.) He would do no such thing,
let the protection and the monopoly be continued and the
convenient time would never come,—( Cheers. ) He felt
obreeed to the House for the attention with which they
had heard him, and should not have trespassed on them at
such great length, had he not felt it. his duty, representing
es he did a large constituency, to impress iipen the House
how important it was for the interests of the community
that there should be a free competition.—(Cheers.)
Sir ALEXANDER GRANT had not yet heard of
any method by which it could be ascertained that the
rum imported from India was really the produce of the
auger. cane. With regard to the certificate of the re-
venue officer in India, on which the Right Hon. Gen:le-
man stated he coulJ rely as confidently as on the certifi-
cate of a revenue officer in this country, it should be re-
collected that the revenue officers in this country were pp-
pointed by the Government, and had no interest except to
do their duty to their employers. Now, in the East
ladies, they were appointed by the Company ; and it was
their direct interest to procure the exportation of spirits
to this country. There was a great difference between
the two cases. He would not go beak to the times of
1792, or to. any times previous to Emanelpation, in ar-
guing this question on behalf of the West India interests.
It should bc recollected el-let-by < the great measure of
Emancipation the West ladice had/been placed in a novel
situation. He did not iinaMgm
„that great measure, but
it found himself and others in possession of
certain rights, with which it was found impossible
to deal without a grant of tuD3ey. He was not going to
deny that the grant of twenty millions was en enormous
sum, but when it was talked of as compensation, it was far
from placing them in the position which they had occupied,,
and, continued the Hon. Gentleman, I appeal to you,
Mr. Bomal, whether such is not the case."—( Loud laugh-
ter.) His Right Hon. Friend had told them that what he
had received as compensation he had not put into his own
pocket, but he had laid it out on the improvement of his
estate, and, said the Hon. Baronet," Mr. Bernal, I appeal
to you, Sir, referring to the income you received before
that period, and the income you have received ever since,
whether you consider yourself compensated.—(Shouts of
laughter mingled with cries of " Question, question," " Di-
vide, divide.") He himself had not received any be-
nefit. The reduction in the production of bis es-
tates had been great, and be bad to pay high
wage=, which be had not had to pay before,
and yet the production had diminished materially.--
( Hear, hear.) Perhaps it might be said he was furrishing
an argument against himself, and in favour of increasing
the sugar cultivation in the East Indies. No such thing.
In former times the production of the West Indies had
been more than sufficient for the consumption of England ;
but new the stimulus to labour in the %Vest Indies was so
small, that the supply of labour was not sufficient for the
cultivation. When the supply of labour should be in.
creased, he had no doubt but the supply would be again
fully equal to the demands of England. The estates were
new cultivated at an actual loss ; and, if this state of things
continued, they must eventually go out of cultivation—
( Loud cries of " Divide, divide.") With regard to the
price • of sugar, it should be recollected that the war
duty of 255. was still continued, and that that duty had
been still further increased last Session. He would sug-
gest to the Right Hon. President of the Board of Trade
a verbal alteration in the resolution, which would do away
with the necessity of dividing—it was that the duty should
be gradually reduced.
Sir S. LUSH[NGTON said that there were three
great interests to be considered in discualing this question ;
first, the interests of the consumers in this country—
( Cheers)—secondly, the just claims of the inhabitants of
our extensive dominions in the East Indies—( Hear,
hear)—and, thirdly, the state and position of those holding
property in the West Indies. He would begin by observ-
ing that he heartily concurred in the general principles
laid down by his Right Hon. Friend. Neither Great
Britain nor any other country had any right to make con-
quests of exten eve dominions, and keep them in a state
of dependence, if those dominions were governed on any
other principles than for the benefit and happiness of the
people inhabiting t bem.—( Loud cheers.) He had looked
at the history ondia with sortow, and sometimes with
disgust, however much ho might admire the brilliant ex-
ploits which our arms had frequently achieved in that
country. There were many scenes in the history of our
connection with that country over which he would
wish to cast a shade; but this only rendered it
a more imperative duty on the House and the country to govern
India for the benefit of the inhabitants. How that duty had
been discharged no man coulddoubt, who looked to the records
of the last few years, more particularly to the labours of die
Committee of 1835. It was their duty now to do every thing
in their power to promote the prosperity of that unfortunate
country, and to redress those wrongs and that injustice which
had heretofore been inflicted on it. Entertaining, those views,
it was impossible that he should not be prepared to offer every
encouragement to the inhabitants of Hindostan.—(Hear, hear. )
Looking again to the condition of the consumers of sugar in
this country, there could be no doubt that the diminished im-
portation of that article had operated on them with the
utmost severity.—(Hear, hear.) There was, however, a
fear that it would be attempted to introduce into this country
the produce of slave labour. His Hon. Friend below him had
said that free labour could compete successfully with slavery.
Now he (Sir S. L.) admitted that under equal circumstances
it could do so. But he world say that the British Colonies
could not contend with Cuba and Brazil, where every day rich
soils were being brought for the first time into cultivation,
and thero was a continual and uninterrupted importation of
slaves.—( Hear, hear.) This led him to consider the case of the
West Indies. The Hon. Gentleman opposite (Sir A. Grant)
had said that the Colonies were in a state of transition, and that
time ought to be allowed them to recover.—(Hear.) Now
he thought that argument would be overwhelming, if it had
the force in the present case which the Hon. Gentleman alleged.
It was his firm opinion that this measure coWd not affect their
interests. He remembered to have heard Mr. Huskissun state
on several occasions that the East Indies could never compete
with the West in the production of sugar, and it was very well
known that the great increase which had taken place lately in
the exportation was occasioned, not by an increase of produc-
tion, but at the expense of the native consumers, in conse-
quence of the advance of price in Eurepe.—(Hear, hear.)
In considering the appeal of the Hon. .Member for Cam-
bridge, who had stated his own case so pathetically, let them
look to the present state of Jamaica—let them bear in mind
that the inferiority of that island to the other colonies less fa-
vourably circumstanced in all other respects, was owing to
want of judgment on the part 4if the Jamaicans themselves.
Antigua, with a worn-out soil, had gone on improving. Bar-
badoes, which was scarcely better off in that respect, was
rising to prosperity. He could not doubt, therefore, that the
great island of Jamaica would also surmount its difficulties.—
(Hoar, hear.) He would not vote for any measure which did
not fully provide against the introduction of any slave-grown
produce whatever.—(Hear, hear.) If such a provision was
not secured the West Indies would have good right to complain
—( Hear)—and the people of England would have a right to
complain, that after expending twenty millions for the suppres-
sion of slavery, they were to be again drawn into the encourage-
ment of it.—( Hear, hear.) He would ask the House to sup-
port him at a future stage of the Bill in the introduction of a
clause to protect this country from the introduction of slave
produce.—(Cries of " Divide, divide.")
Lord SANDON, who was very indistinctly heard in the
gallery, said lie had listened with great attention and interest to
the discussion. He thought there was one party whose interest
ought to be considered, and who had not been attended to in
the debate—not the West India proprietors, but that popula-
tion of 800,000 lubourers who were now undergoing a great ex-
periment. He thought it desirable that the capitalists holding
property in those colonies should be encouraged to carry that
experiment to a successful result. To gratify feelings of our
own, we had prevented them from introducing free labourers
from other parts of the world, and we ought not to deprive
them altogether of our assistance.—( Hear, hear.) He thought
that they should have a little time before they were exposed to
this new competition, and he, should therefore suggest that the
law should not come into operation for two' yeari.—( Hear.)
Mr. LABOUCHERE thought that it was not at all ad-
visable to accede to the proposition of the Noble Lord, who,
he believed, spoke rather from the suggestions of the West
India proprietors than from his own opinions It was, how-
ever, a matter of necessity that considerable time should elapse
before the Bill came into operation. The rum now under
bond would of course not be admitted under this Bill—( Hear)
—and as no rum would be admitted without the certificate of
identity, which must come from India, the Bill could not come
at ell into practieal effect under six months, nor to any extent
for several months more.—(Hear, hear.) No deiay in the
passing of the measure was necessary, and lie should oppose
any amendment having that object.—(Hear, and " Divide.")
Mr. HOGG rose amidst loud cries of "Divide." He was
only anxious to ask whether there existed any intention to
adopt the clause of the Right Hon. Gentleman? He could not
allow the observations of the Right Hou. Gentleman to go
forth to the public without stating that there was not one
pound of sugar made in India by slave labour. He was quite
certain that the proposition of the Right Hon. Gentleman
would not satisfy himself—how could they expect to put
down slavery by a discriminating duty of 6s. per:gallon ?
Sir CHARLES GREY then rose, and was saluted by loud
cries of " oh !" and " Divide," Which for a time drowned
his voice. We understood him to say that the clause proposed
by the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for the Tower
Hamlets would be quite fallacious; suppose 'it was agreed to,
where and by whom was the discovery to be made that certain
rums were made from sugars, the produce of free or slave la-
bour ? It was an impracticable scheme. He had now been
eight years from India, but he could state that when he was
there, there was an anxious desire on the part of the Govern..
nient to put an end to all slave labour, and that they would
carry out these plans at the earliest moment was his firm belief.
Sir R. PEEL then rose, and was met with cries of "Divide ; "
he said it was all very well to cry " Divide," but it was to be
borre in mind that the question was a very important one, and
and that, in fact, that single debate would decide it. He was
anxious to state the impression which had been made on his
mind by reading the evidence upon the subject, and he came
to its cousideration with a mind totally unbiassed; he was con-
nected neither with the East nor the West Indies, and if he had
any predilection at all it was in favour of the consumer.—
( Hear, hear.) He felt bound to say that many of the argu-
ments which had been advanced against the equalization of the
duties had made no impression on his mind ; but neither could
he admit that the arguments of the Right Hon. Gentleman
(Dr. Lushington) had any weight; he could not admit that
slavery exiAik: in inidia tc, taco l,d,r 3e. a, to
them to postpone the equalization of the duties.—
(Hear, hear.) The Right Honourable. Member might