The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-03 00:00:00

he was ready, as far as a sense of his duty would permit, to
bow to the sense of the House as expressed by a large
majority equally where it concurred with, as where it was
opposed to, his own sentiments ; so, on the other, he
could not agree to that amendment if he understood it
aright. Ile did not know whether it was the intention of
the Attorney-General to apply the provisions to persons
who had obtained certificates by which, according to the
present law, they were entitled to vete, or whether it was
his intrusion to say that no party should be placed on the
registry unless lie were able to show that his claim was
established without being subject to any imputation of
fraud, He admitted that in the present arrangement per-
sons were subject to re-examination, and in such
ease the right to continue on the registry was
eiven to them, unless they were rejected ; but the
Right lion. Gentleman meant to go a step further, and
say that no trail once placed on the registry should be
afterwards liable to any objection for any point which might
have been urged against him at the period when he first
put forward his claim. To that extent he ( Lord Stanley)
could not agree with the Right lion. Gentleman, for the
certain result would be a multiplicity of fraudulent voters
if those parties who once got oe the registry were
left there for ever without having their right at any
time questioned. The evils of Lhe present system would
be aggravated by that means, because the privilege of
voting would thus last for the natural term of a man's
life, and that not because he proved that he had pos-
sessed the right to vote, nor because the objector had
not proved that he did not possess that right, but
because in answer to the objector, he might say, "Truly
I do not possess the right of voting, but you have been
unable to prove that. If you raised this question when I
was first put on the registry, I would not have sum
ceede t in establishing my claim, but now you have missed
sour opportunity, and I am enabled to vote."—(Cheers
from the Opposition.) That was not an extreme case—
it was a case which be ( Lord Stanley) knew to have
occurred in Scotland, where that very system does
prevail, and where instances could be produced
of parties at the present moment being on the registry in
several counties without having a foot of land in these
counties. Those parties did not possess any land, but be-
cause their names were once on the registry, no change of
circumstances could remove them —( Opposition cheers.
It was well known to every gentleman in England, Scot-
land, and Ireland, that the registries were not very closely
watched in some counties, and that many persons at con-
tested elections were found to be on the registry, who.had
no right whatever to be there, and yet the collective wis-
dom of that House was called upon to decide that, because
the voters had once get on the lists, they should continue
on them. He (Lord Stanley) proposed to give this pro-
tection to a voter who was placed on the registry, that on
the registry he should remain for life, unless a party came
forward and substantiated against him a prima facie case
of non-qualification. The party attempting to bi ing for.
ward such a case, and not establishing it, was to be subject,
at the discretion of the Barrister, to costs. Ho (Lord
Stanley) thought it was right that the voter should have
that protection, and he could trot depart from that prin-
ciple so far as to carry the amount of protection to as ab-
solute prohibition against any inquiry respecting a party
placed on the registry. But he had said before he was
willing to bow to the decision of the House as taken upon
the motion ms.dc by the Solicitor-General on a Report of
his, made of the cases of those persons who, up to the
present time, had acquired a right to vote. He (Lord
Stanley) proposed that those parties having certificates
should remain on the registry, and that after the
expiration of those certificates they should come forward
as fresh claimants in the same manner as any other person.
He hoped he could show the House that the grounds which
had been taken as an objection to his Bill were narrowed
to the notices that should be given, to the forms of claims
which should be signed, and to the question whether the
registration should be annual or quarterly. The House
had already decided in favour of the annual registration.
Whether the voter should tee so far protected as that the
objector who might bring a strong prima facie case against
him, and who should fail in establishing it, should be sub-
ject to costs, was a point to be decided by the House. An-
other point which he wished to refer to was the notice of
objection which he (Lord Stanley) proposed, and which
was conformable to the English system. The objector
had merely to say, " I object to your name being
on the register." The words were copied from the
English Bill. He did not think he was thus pro-
Dosing anything grievous. Ile did not think that
it was an unfair proposition that when the objector sought
to remove a person's name from the registry, he should
give notice 01 the objet tion which ho meant to raise, Ile
( Lord Stanley) remembered that Mr. Justice Perrin, then
Mr. Sergeant Perrin, proposed that a double appeal should
be given to the Judge of Assize. There was another power
to which he thought it necessary to refer, not because it
was its his (Lord Stanley's) Bill, but because he under-
stood that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (the Member
for Dublin) had said that he would oppose the introduction
of that Bill, pro-sided it contained no provision for de-
fining the franchise. He (Lord Stanley) understood
that before he came down to the House that Henour-
ahl. Gentleman had withdrawn his motion, ned he stated
that he would move an adjousument. He (Lord Stanley)
o istied to state to the House that it was not his intention
to introduce isto the Bill any clause to define the Pasha-
rneotary franchise in Ireland. Ile stated last year to the
House that he was ye.Cte aware of the inconvenience doss
would arise front any doubt being thrown on the franchise.
Ile then also stated that he was fully aware of the diffi-
culties which he would have to encounter were he to
mix up the question of the franchise with the
laws affecting the regigratien, and upon the
fullest cunsiderstion which he had given to that
question he came to the determination that if he
wished to carry his Bill it was indispensable that he
should separate these two questions, and that course was
in the last Session sanctioned by the Government them-
selves, who introduced not one WI! for the registry and fran-
chise, but one Bill, as his, for the case of registration, and
reserved the franchise for discussion in a separate Bill. lie
hal not only the high authority. of Ministers on that sub-
ject, but also the authority of the House itself; because
the question of mixing up the registry and the franchise
was discussed arid decided in the House of Commons
during the course of the last Session. The motion had
been made by the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin,
and the House had concurred in his (Lord Stanley's)
view of the ease ; her Majesty's Ministers, the Noble
Lord the Secretary for the Colonies, and the Noble Lord
the Secretary for Ireland, with the Attorney- General and
many of her Majesty's Government, voting in the minority,
had approved of the question b,ing kept separate,
and the 'tankers, on the division, were 162 and 311,
the latter being the number of those who
thought it inexpedient that these two quest:ons should be
united together. lie was vary sensible of the great in-
convenience arising from the difference of cpinion enter-
tnieed by the Judges on the question of the franchise.
lis regretted that difference, but those who differed from
the inijority on the Bench were, he had no doubt, actuated
by conscientious moths, s. lie (Lord Stanley) ;Nos curs-
vinced that in the present state of the House
and of parties, if he wished to introduce a clause
which would absolutely debar him of the smssibility of
passing that or any such Bill in the present Session of
Parliament, he had only to introduce a clause sesklng- to
d: fine the franchise in the sense in which he took it. He
as as even certain that Gentlemen on the other side of the
House would fled it equally impracticable to introduce a
Bill defining the franchise in any other sense than that in
which it bad been hitherto understood.— ( Hear,
hear.) He confessed he would flinch from tho task.
It would so complicate the measure he was about to intro-
duce, render so intricate that which was sufficiently dif-
ficult in itself, that that Session would pass over like the
last, and be a mere efflux of time, and the undeniable
abuses of the present system would continue one year
more, with merely the prospect of the revival of the pre-
sent discussion. He would, therefore, adhere to the de-
termination that he had come to last year, nut to insert
any clause of that nature. He would keep the question
separate. He was quite willing and ready to discuss
all the provisions of that Bill (if he would obtain leave to
introduce it) with all respect to the arguments which
might be brought forward on either side, and to those who
might seek to controvert it by argument, and ready also
to bow to the decision of the House if adverse to him.
Lord MORPETH said his Noble Friend could not
withstand the temptation, although the Government had
given notice of its intention.—( Hear, hear, from elm
O'Connell; followed by ironical cheers, and laughter from
the Tory benches.) Although her Majesty's Government
had given notice in the very first week of the open-
ing Session to bring forward a Bill on the subject, his
Noble Friend had shown himself so (murmured of that
subject, and so gratified with his reception and his progress
during the course of the last Session—( Ministerial cheers)
—with the several majorities be had obtained, and with
the carrying of twelve clauses in the course of four months
—(Cheers and laughter)—that he had shown himself
determined not to be forestalled, and would have the plea-
sure of having the first word on the subject. He was not at
all disposed to dispute that priority, and he was not will-
ing, alter the very temperate and moderate manner in which
his Noble Friend had brought forward the subject—
(" Hear, hear," from the Tory benches)—he was not
willing to fail in courtesy with his Noble Friend any more
than to any other Honourable Member, because certainly
in the course of lust Session his Noble Friend had oh-
taiued very important success and overwhelming plaudits,
and be was not therefore disposed to offer any opposition
to his motion for leave to bring in the Bill—( Hear, hear)
--not doubting that the Noble Lord, ar,d those who sup-
ported him, would extend the same accommodation to him
(Lord Morpeth) when he moved for leave to bring in the
measure of the Government, —(" Hear, hear," from the
Opposition benches.) Having thus stated the course he
intended to pursue, and considering that on that occasion
be should have a fall opportunity of explaining the views
d Government on the subject of the registration
of voters in Ireland, he did not feel himself called
on to make any lengthened observations on the
subject.—(Hear, hear.) There were only two things
he should state, for the sake of obviating any misappre-
hension. From the statements of the Noble Lord be col-
lected, that although he admitted of some slight modifi-
cations, yet that the main principles and provisions of the
Bill remained unaltered; that he still retained the annual
revision even upon the points that might be decided once
a year ; and that upon points which had been annually
decided the voters were liable to be annually called up s
that he still retained the appeal both ways to the Judge of
Assize against as well as in favour of the franchise ;
and the Noble Lord fortified himself with a consistency,
opinion in these particulars with the Ulster Association,
the report of whose proceedings he largely quoted from.
He (Lord M.) imagined that upon a close examination of
the details of the plans recommended by the Noble Lerd
and the Ulster Association, there would be by no means
found that similarity of views upon which his Noble Friend
reckoned —(1-leer, hear.) The Association cf. Ulster did
not recommend an appeal both weys in matters of fact,
and they did not recommend it without settling and
defining the franchise. However if the Noble
Lord was inclined to take the regulations
of that Association, there would be the less ground of dif-
ference. However that might be in conformity with the
notice that had been given, he should ask the House to
concur in a Bill to amend the laws regarding the qualifi-
cation as well as the registration of voters in Ireland, and