The Sun.
London, England, 1841-09-18 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 18, 1841.

and to the laws whichregulated the-trade in corn." Upon
that subject the House were unanimous. The
House of Commons, however, thought it their
duty to state to her ..`..!ajesty that the Ministers
did not possess their confidence, and they addressed her
Majesty for the purpose of effecting a change of-Govern-
meat. The advice of this House was promptly acceded
to by her Majesty, and the Right Hon. Gentleman op-
posite constructed the Administration which is now
formedehavingsuch an unalterable attachment to the Con-
stitution in Church and State, and to the sliding
scale—(Laughter)—but this Address having been com-
plied with by the Crown, it certainly would seem that
the time was come when these important laws ought to
be taken into consideration.—(Hear, hear.) Far be it
from me, and I hope from any one in this House, to say
that you should attend exclusively to mea-
sures, and not to men. I think you ought
to attend to both ; but, at the same time,
I think men should not be substituted for all measures,
but, having the men in authority, you ought also to have
before you the measures which they approve—(Hear.)
What, then, is the state of the case ? the Right Hon.
Gentiman states, and I am not diSposed to quarrel with
that statement, that much time has been lately
occupied in the formation of a new Adminis-
tration, and that he could not consider these
important points ; but although that may he a good rea-
son to plead for the last fortnight, it does not seem to
be any reason for postponing for five months the consider-
ation of these subjects. Let us consider the previous
deiherations which the Right Hon. Gentleman, and those
who act with him have held on these points. It was
upon the last day of April that the measures relating
to the Budget were announced, and that I gave notice
of moving for a Committee of the whole House on the
laws relating to the trade in corn. When I gave notice
that I would introduce the subject in a month from that
time very strong expressions of surprise were uttered. It
was said that although we had a right to consider
the laws relating to corn, and although it was right that
the Government should propose such measures, yet that
the delay of a month was an intolerable evil, for which
the Government of that day was justly' censurable.—
(Hear, hear, hear.) It was thought proper shortly after
to bring forward a motion declaring that the then
Ministers ought not to retain office, and the
decision upon that motion prevented my'proceeding with
the question relating to corn. But from that time the
Right Hon. Gentleman has had four months to consider
what course he will pursue, and he proposes now
to add to those four months five additional months
before he will communicate to the House of Commons
the measures which the Government think necessary
on this subject. He does not say, as he might, " We
stand upon the present Corn-law; we think no altera-
tion necersary ;" on the contrary, he said he would not
accept office, on the condition of being bound not to make
any alteration in the Corn-law. It cannot be
inferred from such expressions that he thiirks an
alteration necessary. and yet the Right Hon. Gentle-
man, who has certainly gone far with others in that
expression of indignation at delay, and who said, I ought
to he obliged in some manner to bring forward the ques-
tion in less than a month, adds eight months to
that period, and conceives that he is justified
in asking for this long delay.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir, there are symptoms in the construction of the Go-
vernment itself which induce me to entertain very great
doubts whether any important alteration in the Corn-
law will be effected. I am not alluding to the construc-
tion of the Administration with aview to any personal re-
marks, but I cannot help noticing the appointment of the
Duke of Buckingham.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, this to me
is a symptom that no considerable alteration in the
Corn-laws will be effected by the present Government.
I do not doubt the conscientious opinion of the Duke of
Buckingham. I do not doubt that he thinks a protec-
tion such as the present law gives, or one, at least,
equivalent to it-, if not a greater protection, necessary to
the agriculture of the country. I do not doubt that lie
has held that opinion with a view to the general interests
of the country, and I do not doubt likewise that he will
continue to hold that opinion. I have been told that
when a sort of threat was uttered that the late Ministry
should no longer hold office, because they had proposed
an Bs. fixed duty on corn, and that any other Ministry
which took a similar course would meet with a similar
fate—l have been told that there were none who more
demonstrated their approbation and acquiescence in that
sentiment than the Noble Duke to whom I have referred.
Why, Sir, there are others who have not given any very
decided pledge on the subject. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man himself has not been very explicit.—(Hear, hear.)
There is a sliding scale, but a sliding scale may
amount to a prohibition, and may give less
protection than a fixed duty.—(Hear, hear.)- The
Right }lon. Gentleman, therefore, and others, leave
their opinions unknown, and have not given any indica-
tion of the nature of the measures they mean to propose.
But, Sir, while I observe the Noble Duke to whom I
have alluded is a Member of the Cabinet, there are
others to whom the Right Hon. Gentleman has not given
office, and who have expressed more liberal views with
regard to free trade. I do not perceive Sir George
Murray, who had been Secretary of State for the Co-
lonies in the Duke of Wellington's Cabinet, and was
also a Member of the Right Hon. Gentleman's last Ad-
ministration, holding any place in the present Cabinet;
and I believe he expressed himself in favour of a fixed
duty of Bs., and even less than Bs.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
There had been a selection of those who gave a decided
expression of opinion in favour of the Corn-laws—there
was a selection of those in favour of prohibition—(Hear,
hear)—and there had been a neglect or exclusion of
those who pronounced any opinion for free trade.—
(Loud cries of "Hear, hear.") Was it possible, that in
the present state of the country—expecting something to
be done on the subject of the Corn-laws—was it
possible, Sir, that those expectations of large and im-
proved measures should be put off for a period of five
months ?—(Cheers.) If such be the case- —if such be
your intentions, then I say the arguments you used
against the delay of a month, which was proposed by
the late Government, fall with ten-fold force against
yourselves.—(Cheers.) It were better, for the sake of
trade itself, that it may not be at a loss what to do—it
were better, for the sake of agriculture, that it may not be
depressed by unfounded fears, hat you should
declare your adherence, if you do intend, to the present
laW, and will make no alteration.—(Hear, hear.) You
may attempt some correction of the fraud in the ave-
rages, by which you may make the law more stringent.
—(Cheers.) You may lower the pivot scale to 4s. or
ss.—that may be your intention ; but if it is, why
should it not be proposed in the month of October ?
Why should the expectations of the country be
set at nought, and this long delay of five
months be interposed. If it be your intention to
make, no alteration—if you intend to make a different
number of shillings the pivot scale, or a scale more
graduated than the present, then I say this length of
time should not elapse, but you should make up your
minds at once.=(Cheers.) This, I think affects the
character of the present Administration, and I think the
promises of the Bight Honourable Gentleman
should not be deferred for five months.
But then I cannot agree to those imputations which hare
been made against some Gentlemen, that in the course
they adopt upon any subject they are actuated by some
selfish object—(Hear)—but when I say that I must add,
that having interests in those subjects often gives a bias
to the question in dispute.—(Hear, hear.) For instance,
when they talked of free trade in silk, it was said that
the interests of the country required that that commodity
should have protection ; so with respect to the
ship owners, they thought that the interests of the
country require 6 that their particular branch.of com-
merce should be protected ; in short, there can be no
doubt that all parties were more or less biased by their
own interests. But, for the sake of the House of
Commons, it is important that this should be kept in
mind, because, though it is clear that the delay you pro-
poQe is for the convenience of the Administration,
it is equally clear - that it is for the advan-
tage of those who think that rents will be effected
by a change in the Corn-laws.—(Hear, hear.) While
such things continue, therefore, it cannot fail to be im-
puted to you, that such views as these have some in-
fluence upon your decision, and that you do not act
solely for the public good.—(Hear.) I think, therefore,
that it will require that some better case should be made
than the one brought forward by the Right Honourable
Baronet, to postpone the important questions to which
I have alluded for so long a period. What is the
state of the manufacturing interest ?—(Hear, hear.)
I do not wish to say anything which might be construed
into -a declaration of my belief, that any laws you can
establish will prevent great distress from existing
among the manufacturing districts.—(Hear.) I do not
think any laws you can pass will prevent those fluc-
tuations which may arise either from the state of our
foreign relations, or from a long course of over trad-
ing, or from accidents that may occur from time to time;
but what I think the duty of Parliament is this—to be
able to say that we at least have no part in causing the
continuance of distress ; and for this purpose I think
it necessary you should be able to show that
your duties and your restrictions are for .some
necessary object in the State—(Hear, hear)—that
they are necessary for the purposes of revenue, or for
the purpose of placing a certain part of the community,
which is over-taxed, upon a condition of equality in that
respect with other classes ; or that they are necessary
in order to make the transition more gradual, and not
to bring a sudden state of embarrassment on any inte-
resth or class of subjects who have been unduly pro-
easurfeo sr
necessary pro-
tected. But do your own Corn-laws come Under
ther e
theyatl f
measures whichthe
of
nberevtehiumso dl o
efendaetdhe?
A
contrary, it is •
quite clear that your. present law defeats
all purposes of revenue—(Hear,
hear)—and that if the
measure which I had the honour to announce, and which
was never discussed, of laying on a fixed duty of 8s per
quarter, had been adopted, the Exchequer would be. n ow
some 400,0001. or 500,000/. the richer. There would be,
in all probability. one million or twelve thousand quarters
more admitted into this country. I • s your present law
necessary for protecting the agricultural interest ? I
think certainly that a fixed duty is far better in that re-
spect, and that you have no cause to make out
a prohibition on that ground. (Hear, hear.) I
never heard a cause made out certainly for a pro-
hibitory duty on that ground. Lastly, you cannot
say that this duty is necessary, in order to make a transi-
tion, because it has been adopted as a permanent s) stem.
If that is the state of the laws, I say that those who are
distressed have a right to come to you, and ask you to
consider their case—ask you to change any law
which affects them—to change any law which
paralizes trade and embarrasses industry, and
as fas as legislation can do it, to place them in a better
condition. You should not be able to say—above all,
you should not promise—that by such a law you would
place them in a state of entire prosperity, and that you
would avert from them all fluctuationsof distress; but you
would be able to-say, whatever those:distresses are, we feel
the deepest compassion for them, and for the
restrictions which aggravate those distresses
we are not responsible—Parliament has no share in pro-
ducing them. Now that is what I think yon cannot

justly say at present. If such distress exists, as it un-
doubtedly does, I think no persona} inconvenience
attendant on the sitting of Parlianient for six we;::

longer ought to prevent, our taking nib consideration teis
autumn the law which regulates the trade in corn.
There has been an address presented to her Majesty,
which was agreed to at Manchester at a public meeting,
cosiveued in compliance of a requisition, bearing 1,018
signatures of merchants, manufacturers, and other
respectable individuals of all classes, and which
states that they approach the Throne in order
to state their sentiments of profound venera-
tion for her Majesty's person and their ardent
attachment to the throne—that commercial depression
was extreme, and that all classes of her Majesty's sub-
jects, and especially the poorer classes, were enduring
privations more grievous than had ever been known to
their oldest inhabitants. They beg to assure her
Majesty that during the last four years that
distress has existed, and has been increasing
and that it has been borne by thousands of victims with
an enduring patience highly creditable to their moral
character.—(Hear.) They state that the ability to ex-
ercise acts of benevolence by the upper and middle
classes begins to fail, and that the distress under which
the poor have suffered have begun to visit these;
and that, in contemplating the approach of winter
under these circumstances, their hearts sink within them,
and they sigh at the prospect of such bitter destitution,
They therefore pray that her Majesty, in the exercise of
her Royal Prerogative, will be pleased not to prorogue
the two Houses of Parliament until such time
as that portion of her Majesty's gracious Speech, deli-
vered at the opening of the present Session, relating
to the Corn-laws, shall have been fully delibe-
rated in Parliament; and they state that her Majesty's
compliance with their prayer will be to them an assu-
rance that she is graciously disposed, as she has
ever been, to interest herself in the happiness and
welfare of her people.—(Hear, and cheers.) Now, Sir,
this is not the opinion and sentiments of Manchester
only, but the sentiments of other towns suffering like-
wise under similar distress. If you separate, th only
remedy which can be applied is the one already hinted,
namely, by the interposition of relief given out of
the rates raised for the support of the Poor.
Now, Sir, if there were occasional privations and occa-
sional distress, that might he a reasonable proposition,
but if not—if it is connected generally with the state of
free trade, I beg leave to say that such a remedy will be
quite inefficacious.—(Cheers.) Supposing the case
were similar to that which occurred in some
agricultural parishes before the introduction of the New
Poor-law, when the produce and profit of the land were
entirely absorbed by the poor's-rate, you are, then, de-
stroying the source of manufacturing prosperity. lint
you must remember that it is the power of those en-
gaged in manufactures, when they find themselves subject
to continual losses during a period of four years, one
year after another—it is in their power to withdraw
their capital from those manufacturing establishments to
preserve that capital, and leave the people depending on
them to that relief from the Poor-rates, which must
issue in the entire sacrifice of the land itself.
I am afraid—and I have heard instances in which this has
taken place—that persons finding one half of their
capital already gone, may resolve to save the
other half by ceasing to employ art in manufac-
tures in this country. In the course of the
debate two months ago, when we were discussing
the Corn-laws, the Right Hon. Gentleman argued against
the notion then entertained that we were arrived at a
state of great manufacturing distress, and I remember
my observing then, that I did not think that the case of
manufacturing distress such as it was stated had been
made out, but that it was advisable that the
House should effect an alteration in the Corn-laws;
because if that manufacturing distress should really
reach to a great pitch hereafter, your interposition would
then be too late. My argument was, that so long as you
had any possibility of retaining your markets manufac-
tures would continue to be sent abroad—so long as ma-
nufacturers had the least chance of obtaining a profit on
their goods, they would consign their goods to foreign
markets ; but when they had lost those markets—when
you arrived at that period when your manufactures could
not be sold abroad, you would then have lost those mar-
kets. It will then be too late for you to interpose, end
the alteration of your laws will not bring a remedy to
the evils which have occurred.—(Hear.) I am afraid
that with respect to one branch of our manufactures—l
mean our cotton trade—if it be not relieved by some
alteration in our laws, and by a greater freedom of trade,
it will be outdone by foreign competition—(Hear, hear)—
that our manufacturing establishments will be broken
up, and that a large portion of the population, which
cannot be relieved from the poor-rate, will then be left
without any resource.—(Hear.) If there be any grounds
for these apprehensions, they at least form a matter for
the consideration of Parliament. You may say, " That
these fears are unfounded ; and in considering those
matters which were laid before you in the Queen's
Speech, you may say that we have come to the opi-
nion that the manufacturing prosperity of, this country
is based upon a rock— -that it is unshaken—that the
Corn-laws do not affect it—but, on fhe contrary, the
Corn-laws tend to the welfare of the country—that is the
result of our solemn deliberation." Why, if that be the
result of your solemn deliberation, so state it, and that
will at least give the country the satisfaction of knowing
that you have fairly and fully considered the subject.
But what is now proposed is merely this, that you
should grant certain sums of money ; that you should
pass a continuance of laws which would expire at the
end of the present year, and then, without any sort of
inquiry, without any sort of consideration, that until
five months hence you shall not come to any conside-
ration on the great questions which agitate the country.
As far as relates to the finances of the country, in my
opinion it is now necessary to take some measures which
we might hope would alleviate their present state. In
my opinion it would be far better to adopt a course of
measures which, if they did not yield an increase of re-
venue, yet would yield an increase of the trade and com-
merce of the country, and so make the revenue
equal to its expenditure. But the only proposal
which has been made is to obtain a vote of credit
to continue until the next year. I, Sir, deeply regret
the course proposed to be pursued, for I am afraid it will
not give satisfaction to the country, and more especially
to those residing in the manufacturing districts.—
(Hear, hear.) I feel thoroughly persuaded that if, in-
stead of pursuing this course, you had adopted those
measures which the late Government announced on the
13th of April last, they would have produced a
revival of trade—(Loud cheering)—and, in augment-
ing the revenue by such means, you would have secured
a still greater object, an increase of the comforts and
happiness of the people.—(Cheers.) Nay, more, by de-
claring to the whole world that you were about to inter-
change your products fOr theirs on a free basis, you would
have contributed to the future peace of the world.—
(Loud cheers.) For there can be no feeling so strong—
no security equal to the feeling that one country derives
benefits from the other—(Cheers)—and that if such in-
tercourse be interrupted, will cause far greater calamities
than an ordinary war between hostile nations.
(Loud cheers..) It is not because our
measures would improve the revenue merely, but because
they would contribute to the peace of the world, that
I deeply regret their rejection. But even now, although
they have been rejected, I think still that the Right
Hon. Gentleman and her Majesty's present Government
ought not at once to decide that they will not enter into
the consideration of measures so important on the
present occasion.— (Cheers.) Still I feel per-
suaded that if they have made up their minds
to pursue that course, unwise although think it, they
will receive the support of that majority. which recently
placed them in office ; but when the events of the year
are reviewed, it will be found by the people of the coun-
try that great advantages would have been derived
from the fair consideration, instead of the abrupt re-
jection of those measures, and that in adjourning their
consideration until next year, you adjourn all the bene-
fits which would have flowed from them. It is not my
intention on this occasion, or on any other, to propose
any motion to the House, or to ask any division against
the course proposed to be taken by the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman ; but, as a Member of this House, I beg not to
be held responsible in any way for the course which will
most likely be pursued.
Sir E. PEEL said, Sir, the course I took yesterday in
announcing to the House the proceedings which I pro-
posed to adopt with respect to the public business of the
country, will have been a sufficient indication that I had
no wish at the commencement of the harassing and ar-
duous task committed to me, to commence it by any con-
troversy of a party nature. At the same time I ma per-
fectly ready to admit that that course of proceeding con-
stitutes no rule for the Noble Lord—that our respective
positions are different—and that he is entirely at liberty
to invite me to the discussion which he has opened;
and, although I had no wish to originate the discussion,
yet I can assure the Noble Lord that I am little disposed
to avoid it, and on the contrary, I am thankful rather
than otherwise for the opportunity of commenting on
the observations he has made.—(Loud cheers.) I refer
in the first instance to the facts on which there can be
no material disagreement between us. I concur with
the Noble Lord in the earnest desire that our amicable
relations may be maintained between this country and
France, and, if possible, I shall more cordially
concur with him in the prayer he expressed, that
it may please Almighty God to continue
his protection from the hand of assassins to that great
man to whom the destinies of that country have been
intrusted.—(Cheers.) Sir, it is impossible to hear of
those abominable attacks—of those infamous and sense-
less attempts—without feeling pain for the character of
humanity, but it appears as if Providence had provided
some compensation for them, for the only results of these
attempts is to provoke one general feeling of disgust to-
wards their abettors, and it would appear as
if some special protection was vouchsafed to
that Illustrious family; and my fires belief • is,
that so long as they continue to reign, they constitute a
sufficient guarantee for the preservation of peace. I join
with the Noble Lord in the wish that assassination may he
defeated, and the assassins meet with signal punishment.
Sir, I cannot anticipate that the change which has taken
place in the Government is likely to interrupt our ami-
cable relations.—(Hear, hear.) I have received no inti-
mation from France of any indisposition towards the pre-
sent Government, or any apprehension that our amicable
relations may be impaired. I should be surprised if it
were so, for I recollect, on the occurrence of those events
which shook to its foundation the throne of the empire of
France, as regarded the family of the Bourbons, I
was one of those who, in conjunction with the
Illustrious Duke of Wellington, and many of those who
are now joined with me in the Government, seeing that it
atottrihptoyhepnee—tpraoorhlil the will of the authorities of the people of
France that their Government should be committed to
.eeencrddosiwg
recognise
iwtjahsetelod:
nhhi dcao,etninsa odwotvvewiesirwetehiegstrhtneaenidnocinnmrgowowst
hnth
oe
moc rfoertticlihuh
etiasal
coun-
try ncaoe:f
of the people of France appeared to have fallen.
With respect to the man who has been so justly praised
by the Noble Lord—l mean the man who now governs
France—l equally with the Noble Lord hope for his

presi,rvation.—(Cheta,.) C(Ji,istently with the main-
tenance of BritiFfi witheut exclusive treaties,
. intietate.rela'joie: of amity
with France. I. tin is the intimate relations of amity
between England and France almost essential to the
maintenance of general peace. It must conduce to the
advancement of social improvement and general civiliza-
tion.—(Great cheering.:),. I am not now using language
to secure the continuance of our present relations, or to
court the good opinion of the French Govern-
ment.--(Cries of " Hear, hear.") During ten years,
when I was ont of office, my language has always been
the same.—(Hear, hear.) I have taken every opportu-
nity of assisting in keeping up peaceful relations, and I
gave all my assistance to affect an oblivion of the late
hostile collision.—(Hear.) I mm ish it may be forgotten
and :hat each nation may repose under the
limas which each had gained, and those two nations, so
distinguished in arts and military achievements, may-
maintain peaceful relations without any disparagement of
their honour.—(Hear, hear.) This is essential to
the welfare of the world.—(Cheers.) This is the
doctrine which I have always maintained when
Gentlemen opposite were in power, and it is not likely
that I shall now shrink from its repetition.—(Cheers.)
As to the United States, I confess I look to the present
state of our relations with them with great anxiety.—
Hear, hear.) It seems to be as manifestly the
interest of these two countries, which are
united by so many ties, to avoid a hostile collision, that I
hope the good feeling and the good sense of the people
of this country will aid the Government if any necessity
for that aid should arise. But at the same time I feel
the obligation of making no concession derogatory-
to the honour of this country for the sake of a
temporary conciliation.—(Great cheering.) Sir, I now
come to that question on which the controversy arises
between the Noble Lord and myself, and I particularly
regret that the Noble Lord declines to take the
sense of the House upon the difference of
oar views. The House was elected under his
auspices (Loud cheers) and I wish he had
taken its sense as to the propriety of the course which I
mean to pursue.—(Hear, hear.) I think it would be no
more than reasonable—if, after ten years, during which
I have sat in this House as a private individual—
I think that, on returning- to office, it would
be no more than reasonable that I should
not be expected, within fourteen days, to propose a mea-
sure for altering all the laws of trade and commerce.—
(Cheers.) I thought it would be seen that there was a
necessity for obtaining official information, which would
require time, and that it was but rersonable to permit
me to have an interval in consequence.—(Hear, hear.)
But if I am responsible for not proposing the, altera-
tion of the Corn-laws in one month, what is to be thought
of that Government—(Tremendous: cheering)—l say,
' what is to be thought of that Govesnment which held
office for five years, and never, until the month of May.
1841, intimated a united opinion on the question ?
If you are • convinced that intolerable evils are inflicted
on this country by the operation of the Corn-laws—
that commercial distress may justly be attributed, and
that the sufferings to which the working classes in some
parts of the country arc exposed under those laws—what, I
' ask, is your responsibility for not having, in five years,
brought forward any proposition to remedy the evil?—
(Cheers.) Why did you leave it an open question ?
(Cheers.) If you say you had no hope of carrying it,
then I tell you that, when I make up any mind
.for an alteration in the Corn-laws, no such
consideration will induce me to act as you have acted.—
(Great cheering.) No fear of my proposition succeed-
ing here, and being defeated there, would cause me to
hesitate in stating to Parliament the decision of a united
Cabinet, whatever might be the result. But you, having
those opinions, permitted Lord Melbourne, in the House
of Lords, to state that there was no necessity for altera-
tion, and to oppose inquiry.—(Renewed cheering.) You
object to the men whom we have chosen to join us. Why
did you make that man the Vice-President of the Board
of Trade who was pledged to oppose all inquiry?
Five years have elapsed without any action on the part
of the late Government with respect to the Corn-laws.
—(Hear, hear.) It was not till April, 1841, that you
brought the question.of them forward. And why, if you
entertained those feelings which you then represented
with respect to them—why, I ask, did you not call the
attention of the House to them in the Queen's Speech of
1840 ? Why reserve this question till you have made an
appeal to the people, and have been left in a minority
of 80?—(Cheers.) You brought forward the Corn-laws
in 1841, and in a way that was most calculated to pre-
judice the mind of the country with respeet to
them.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Of course there can be
no doubt that the view you have taken with respect to
that question is a philosophic one.—(A laugh.) No
matter whether you raise one shilling or one million by
the Corn-law duty you proposed, it was still
your duty to call the attention of Parliament
to. those subjects which were drying up the national
prosperity.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") What reason
could there be in 1841, at the commencement of the
Session, why you should not have inserted in the
Queen's Speech some recommendation analogous
to that which you inserted when you found you could
do no otherwise?—(Hear, hear.) You propose the al-
teration of the Corn-laws as a means of raising
revenue, and your proposal is not a vague or general re-
commendation to take the Corn .laws into consideration;
it can be no other than a recommendation to adopt the
tax of Bs. a quarter on foreign corn.—(Hear, hear.)
That was the proposal you made. Do you
adhere to it now, or do you not ?—(Hear, hear::
When you recommended in your Queen's Speech, in
August, 1841, that the Corn-laws should be taken into
the consideration of Parliament, had your recommen-
dation reference merely to some vague and indefi-
nite inquiry into the operation of the Corn-
laws?—(Hear, hear, hear.) Had it reference to the
specific proposition made by you in the month
of May preceding, for a fixed duty of eight shil-
lings upon the importation of foreign corn?
If you say that you are not bound to adopt the fixed
duty of Bs. a quarter, what must be your modesty in
calling upon me to declare what measures I am
prepared to adopt, if you already see reason to doubt the
policy of imposing a fixed duty of Bs. a quarter on the
importation of foreign corn?—(Cheers.) If you
say that the subject is one still open to consider-
ation—that a new Parliament may entertain new
views on the subject—then justify me in main-
' taining ray present reserve, until I shall be enabled to give
permanent effect to whatever measures I may propose.
But if you, as you must, answer that you meant by that
recommendation the imposition of an Bs. fixed duty, to
be levied universally on the importation of foreign corn,
without reference to price, then permit me to say that
you owe some acknowledgments to myself and to others
who had prevented you from carrying that measure into
effect.- - (Cheers.) I may be allowed to say, that if that
had occurred, which at one period seemed exceedingly
likely to occur—if the weather had continued unfavour-
able, and the price of wheat had risen to 90s. a quarter,
and your measure of a fixed duty of Bs. had been carried,
we should probably have now been assembled under
your auspices to seek from Parliament authority to do
away with that duty which you had imposed. If it had
been possible to have carried through Parliament your
proposition at this moment, there would have been a
fixed duty of Bs. a quarter levied on the im-
portation of foreign corn, and I think there
would have been some contrast between the opera-
tion of that duty and the present operation of the law, by
which a considerable quantity of wheat has been admit-
ted, or at least will be admitted, at a duty of Is. a quar-
ter. I cannot but think that circumstances might occur
r which would render the levying of an Bs. duty exceed-
ingly embarrassing.—(Cheers.) Now, with respect to
the subject of finance. The Noble Lord laments that I
have brought forward no proposal involving permanent
taxation. I regret that the Noble Lord will not take the
decision of the House on the subject.—(Cheers.) I wish
that he would take that decision.—(Cheers.) Having
been engaged in the formation of an Administration--
having had all the arrangements to make consequent upon
the forming a Government—having had to devote some
time to those arrangements—the Noble Lord asks
if we are prepared to bring forward any measure
for increasing permanently the taxation of the country ?
Now, 1 ask the House to consider what is the position
I inherit ?—(Loud cheers.) For five years, Gentlemen
opposite held power. In 1838, or rather I should say in
1837, the deficiency between expenditure and revenue
amounted to 1,428,0001. In the year 1838 there was a
deficiency of 430,00C1.; in the year 1840 the deficiency
was 1,457,000/. In 1841 the deficiency amounted to
1,851,0001., making a gradual accumulating deficit up
to the sth April, 1841, of 5,166,00 CL In the year
ending the sth April, 1842, it is estimated, and estimated
with lamentable truth, that this deficit in this single year
will amount to 2,500,e00/. makincra total deficit—an accu-
mulating deficit (ill maybe allowed to use thephrase) on the
last five years of 7,666,0001. I come to the administra-
tion of finance. I have been in office one month, and I
ani asked at once to propose a remedy for this state of
things.—(Ministerial cheers.) And what lights have I
from the late Government ? If I look to your Budget,
shall I repair the deficiency ? So far from it, I shall
proceed to show, as time Noble Lord has provoked me
~,to this discussion, that even if your Budget realised all
your expectations, you must have proposed a vote of
credit in order to make good your calculations—that you
should, if your most sanguine calculations were verified,
have to propose a vote of credit partaking of the
character of that vote which my Right Hon. Friend
will propose, to the amount of at least 800,000/.
Foreseeing that there was to be a deficit of
2,500,0001., you propose your financial measures
to repair this deficit. You propose to diminish the duty
on Baltic timber, increasing that on Canadian, and the
Chanchellor of the Exchequer took credit for 600,0001.
to be derived from that change. Now I will prove to
the satisfaction of every one of you that not one shilling
of that 600,0001. would be obtained. Lord Sydenham
has expressly declared, that although concurring in the
general principle of the policy of an alteration in the
timber duties—and I am not now discussing the com-
mercial policy of the alteration—l am only considering
the financial part of this bearing of the Budget of the
present year ; I am merely considering. the mere limited
question—had I adopted your Budget I should be spared
the necessity in which I am at present involved.—( Hear.)
Hear what Lord Svdenham says. On the 24th of April,
1841, he writes, "Great alarm is felt by those engaged
in the timber trade at the prospect of any alteration in
the duties levied on wood in the United Kingdom, and
which may affect the protection afforded to colonial tan-
bar ; but the question must be decided by the Imperial
Parliament on the view which it takes of the general in-
terests of the empire." He says, " I conceive that if
trade
diminish
bears
to
any change be determined on that may disturb the pro-
porteinoonhthaotthtehre, colonial and
b
dforeie takengn ti
as much as possible the loss to individuals by
' rendering the change gradual, as such a course is the
über
to
most just as it is also the most politic ; but I must
express a hope that whatever alteration may, be adopted,
the recommendation of the Clumittee of 1835, of which
I was Chairman, will be adhered to, namely, that the
change should not affect the importation of the year,
aince that- would bear extremely hard on the Colonial

timber-merchant." I turn now to the recommendation.
of that. Committee, and I find the recommendation
given to which he alludes. The Report of that Com-
mittee is dated, Aug. 1835, and contains the following
resolution :—" That it is the opinion of this Committee
that if such reduction be made, so far as may he con-
sisteet with the interests of the revenue, it
shall be made without an augmentation of . the
duty on colonial timber," and the recommendation is
" that it is the opinion of this Committee that any alte-
ration should not affect the shipments made in 1836."
That is to say, Lord Sydenham, writing in 1835, recom-
mends that the alteration in the duty should be post-
poned to 1837—(Hear, hear)—and he (the Governor of
Canada) responsible for the peace of that important .pro
vince, strongly advised you to adhere to that resolution
of 1835. If you had done so, as I believe you would,
is it not clear as day that not a shilling could
be derived from this source to meet the
deficiency of the year ending April, 1842, and conse-
quently that the item 600,0001. must be struck out of
the estimate ?—(Cheers.) Add this 600,0001 to the
800,0001. referred . to, and you have a clear deficit of
1,400,0001., for which no attempt was made to provide.
—(Cheers.) I now, come to sugar. Upon sugar 700,0001
was to be received, and that in consequence of the im-
portation into this country of foreign sugar, on, which a
duty of 375. was to be levied, being a differential
duty of 12s. in favour of British sugar. By
this a sum of ,700,000/. was to be raised.
But such being the reduction in the price of British sugar,
without the introduction of foreign sugar, I am disposed
to doubt the statement of the Noble Lord, and that . of
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that the revenue they
calculated upon would accrue upon the introduction of
foreign sugar. I have returns of the price of sugar from
the 4th of May to the 7th of September, in the years 1840
and 1841. I believe the average price of sugar during
that time was 565. 6d. I have not the exact calculation,
but I am disposed to thinki it was more. I will .take
period of six months, and I find the price for each month
to be thus per cwt.:-57s 4d.,.565. 9d., 57s old., 58s. Id.,
58s. 4d., 58s. 9d. These were the prices in 1840, and
they Lwere as follow in the corresponding months
M,1841 :-375.,365. slid., 365. 2d., 365. 4d., 365. 3d.,345. Bd.
Let them compare the price of sugar for the last two
weeks, ending the 7th of Sept. in 1840 and 1841, and
they would find in the former year the price was 58s. 9d.
per cwt. And in the latter 345. 9d., being a reduction of
24s.—(Loud cheers.) The average price of sugar
since the 4th of May does not exceed 365. Bd., being
subject to a duty of 255. The calculation of the Noble
Lord was, that foreign sugar could only be imported
when the price of sugar in the British market was 61s.
The price of foreign sugar in bond is 225., and the duty
of 375. added to this will make it :595., which will, be
further increased by the .profits of the retailer. , The
Noble Lord was correct when he stated that 61s. was,the
price at which foreign sugar could be profitably imported,
And here was the British sugar sold at a price not ex-
ceeding what the foreign grower could offer his at in the
British market.—(Cheers.) And that being the case,
and making a deduction for some quantity of imported
sugar which was brought to market, what became of
the promised 500,000/ ?—(Loud cheers.) I strike off
500,000/., and I have got 1,400,000/.—not in hand—(A,
laugh)—but the reverse ; and I add this 500,000/ and
1,400,0001. together, and the sum is 1,900,000/, for
which the late Chancellor of the Exchequer was to
make provision by the laying on of new taxes, or
a vote of credit.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.")
Now then comes the duty upon corn. We were to raise a
duty upon corn to amount to 400,000/, as it appeared in
that Budget. But, in order to justifythe calculations of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, the duty raised from corn
must have amounted to 1,500,000/, from corn alone.
(Here some observation was made in an inaudible tone
by Lord John Russell.) I beg the Noble Lord's pardon
—it may be that I am making a mistake—l am speaking
from my recollection of former debates, rather than from
any attention which I have paid to the subject of late.
But if I recollect right, the Chancellor of the Exchequer
said, " I will estimate the produce of the Customs in 1841
to be equivalent to the produce of the Customs in 1840."
Now a portion of the Custom duty of 1840 was 1,100,0001.
raised from corn; and consequently that 1,100,0001 must
be added to the 4,000,0001. for which the Right Hon.
Gentleman took credit in his Budget ; because, if there
was any deficiency from the 1,100,000 which was raised
from corn in 1840, there would probably have been a
corresponding reduction in the .Custom duty of 1841;
consequently unless you could raise 1,500,00e1. from
corn in 1841, the deficit, as I think I have already clearly
shown, must have amounted to 1,500,000/.—(Hear,
hear.) And however cordial the co-operation which the
Noble Lord may receive from those who sit hehind him,
yet, stating what they do with respect to the bread tax,
and the injustice of subjecting to a heavy duty that
which is the subsistence of the people—(Hear, hear)—
can they hear with cordial satisfaction that a part of the
Budget was to levy 1,800,0001 upon corn? And, although
I know it is utterly impossible to expect their concur-
rence—although I know they will say that the prosperity
of trade, and the regularity of commercial transactions
is promoted by a fixed duty on corn ; yet, if I could meet
them privately, and ask them which on the whole they
would prefer when corn was at 735., a duty of ls. upon
its importation, or a fixed duty of Bs., if they could divest
themselves of their political character consistently with
their views, they must make the choice of the Is. duty.—
, (Hear, hear.) Now, with respect to the deficit of
1,500,00C1 Short as has been the time for considering
the subject, I doubt whether that 1,500,000/., supposing
the present amount of revenue to continue, is, in point of
fact, the whole deficit upon which we may calculate ; and
I am bound to say to the Noble Lord that I think
the prospect of future years far from satisfactory.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer has struck out of the
estimate for future years the expenditure:which in the
present year has been applied to China s and the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer said that he thought they could
not be called upon to provide anything like the sum he
had stated for future years. Are these anticipations
likely to be realised ? I say nothing whatever of the
policy of the operations in China, but I do ask if it is
not probable that the demand which will be made on us
in future years for the service of the present, on account
of the Chinese operations, will far exceed the sum of
400,000/. But this is the estimate of the expense of the
Chinese operations :—" China ; estimate of the sum re-
puired to be voted for the year 1841, on account of the
expenses of the expedition in China. The expenses al-
ready incurred, appear by the last returns presented to
Parliament, to have amounted, so far as they can be esti-
mated, to 625,2931." This paper is dated 28th May,
1841, and the period to which it referred was long ante-
cedent. r will venture to say that this expense of
625,2931. had been incurred in October, 1840. And now
you have to provide for the expense that has been incurred
'in October, 1840. And what are your means of judging
of the amount of that expense ? This is all the informa-
tion we have upon the subject—" No account has been
received from which an accurate estimate can be formed."
—(Hear, hear, and laughter from the Ministerial
benches.) But I do read in the Newspapers some state-
ments respecting the probable expenses of the Chinese
expedition. There is a letter from Captain Senhouse of
her Majesty's Navy, addressed to Mrs. Noble, and dated
the 10th March, 1341, in which he stated, that " for
eight months we have been exercising unparalleled for-
bearance and kindness to the Chinese, thereby incurring
an sxpense of probably the full amount of the remune-
ration we are seeking for." It appears, then, that
a great additional expense must be incurred. I do
nut, I repeat, say a word as to the policy of the
expedition ; I am speaking of the question merely.
as one of finance. I am not saying anything
of the subject politically, but I wish to state my opinion
that no prudent Chancellor of the Exchequer, calculating
the future expenses of the country, would omit from his
consideration the probable demand on account of the
Chinese operations.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord
has made a speech calculated not to make a favourable
impression as to my position, and likely to add to the
difficulties which must encompass any man now occupy-
ing office—(Hear, hear)—but I do not hesitate to tell
the Noble Lord that I look with alarm to the growing
tendency to an increased expenditure in our colonial pos-
sessions. I have here before me a paper which declares
the necessity of taking a 'comprehensive view of the
civil expenses to be incurred in the Island of Hongkong.
Well, then, here he wants 9,00 C/. for the present year,
but he hopes the Government will see the necessity of
large and comprehensive views on the foundation of the
new colony. But I come to New South Wales, and I
her the House to remember that this is the position in
which I find affairs.—(Cheers.) This is the position in
which I nun called upon to estimate expenditure and make
provision to meet it. As to New South Wales, I have
read a despatch dated in January, 1841, from Sir Geo.
Gipps, in which he stated that he had issued a great
number of bounty warrants—no less than to 71,315 emi.
grants, the estimate for which amounts to—what do you
think ? Why, to no less than 979,563/—(Hear, hear.)
The Noble Lord contemplated such a state of things
with great alarm, and most justly rebuked the Governor
for such profuseness. The Governor said they were in
New South Wales involved in great commercial difficulty
and embarrassment, but in that they. were like the Bri-
tish nation. But it will not here be held that the greater
the embarrassment the greater ought to be the expen-
diture. The Noble Lord had most wisely put an end to
the system; but, do what we will, a sum of not less than
500,000/ will be
.left to be provided for in sonic way
or another. Let us come now to South Australia. But
I must hold the Government responsible for employing
instruments who would dare to incur such profuse lia-
bilities. But these are items which we must provide for—
we must consider—have I not a just right, therefore, to
demand time for their Consideration?—(Cheers.) As to
South Australia, such was the desperate condition of
that colony, that even last year we voted 155,000/. for
extricating it from difficulty, and since the Noble Lord
quitted office bills to the amount of 14,0001. have been
presented and protested by. the British Treasury; and
from the dates, I feel convinced that more are now on
the way home, and they also will be protested, but I
much fear that we will be obliged to pay both the bills
and the expense of the protest. I now come to New
Zealand, and it appears that bills to the amount of
33,0001. have been drawn by the Bank of New Zealand
upon New South Wales.—(" Hear," and a laugh.) Don't
flatter yourselves that this is all, for there is an indica-
tion that there are bills to the amount of 54,000/. addi-
tional on their way.—(Hear, hear.) Now I come to
Canada, for which the estimate of last year was 6,0001,
but since the Budget was brought forward the credit of
this country has been guaranteed for a loan to Canada
to the amount of 1,500,0001. I am not questioning the policy
of that step, but here is a new engagement which this
country has contracted. You have, in addition, guaran-
teed an expenditure of 100,000/, a-year for fortifications.
—(Lord J. Russell made a remark across the table.)
I was not aware that that had been set aside, but giving
the Noble Lord credit for the vigilance with which he
has acted, you must still consider my position, and say
whether I am not justified in the great apprehension
I have expressed with regard to the growing expense of
our colonial establishments, and which will ultimately
fall upon this country?—(Hear, hear.) I appeal to any
man, whatever his political opinions may be, whether I
have not already "referred an almost conclusive claim

to being permitted to review all those matters? Still the
11•Toble Lord s-ays we should permit Parliarth to

slvirate without some

atres; but I

e -
would it not be more desirable to have an opportunity of
settling our affairs with the United States, if settled they;
can be? The House must be aware that commercial treaties,
are pending with Naples, :with Texas, with Portugal,
with the Brazils, and above all with Franee. I say nothing of
the policy of that treaty, but it was under consideration,
and was suspended in consequence of the quadruple
treaty of July. It is reasonable, it is necessary, that we
should understand the views of France—that we should
understand the view on the subject of the com-
mercial treaty with that country. That treaty proposes
the introduction of French brandy at a reduced taxa-
tion. Now, would not such a measure effect the impor-
tation of colonial rum, of wine and other articles of that
nature? Would it be fit, would it be right, to settle a
question of that nature till you have first decided what
your commercial relations with that country are to be?
Is not the demand I make for time to eonsider these
things, a demand founded, not upon personal con-
siderations, but on considerations of the public good? If
these things are to be undertaken, they should be
brought to a close at the time when they are undertaken,
and tuey should not be proposed by a responsible
Government without having it allowed some time
for the purpose of considering such comprehensive
questions. Sir, the Noble Lord has spoken in a just,
frank, and handsome manner, with respect to the course
I pursued in advising the Crown as to the constitution of
the Government: Let me, however, remind the Noble
Lord of the confidence of the predictions with respect to
the coarse which I might take. Was I not told, night
after night, that in the formation of a Government I
should be the reluctant and degraded instrument of
those men who were ready to offer every insult to their
Roman Catholic fellow countrymen—that would hoist
the standard of ascendancy, and that would demand from
me complete and servile acquiesencc? That was said to
be the inevitable consequence of my accession to power.
Well, the moment for the verifying of those prediction,
has passed, and the Noble Lord has admitted that over
that difficulty at least I have triumphed, and that I have
constituted a Government in a manner that has satisfac-
terily shown that the affairs of the country shall be di-
rected with impartiality. Sir, I make no concessions for
the purpose of purchasing support. I intend to admi-
nister the law with firmness—l hope with vigour. I
will not permit the administration of Irish affairs to be
influenced by conciliating support in the House of Corn-
mons.—(Ministerial cheers.) I do say this after the
compliment which the Noble Lord has paid me. I have.
0, right to eay..that the engagements, into -which I have
entered with regard to the administration of impartial
justice shall, as far as they depend on me, be fulfilled. The
appointment of my Noble Friend, Lord de Grey, who
with just reluctance, was induced to undertake the im-
.p.)rtant functions . which wean him. from occupations and
enjoyments the most refined and honourable, and credit-
able to man—the appointment of my Noble Friend
Lord Eliot—the appointment of my lion. and Learned
Friend, Sir Edward Sugden, to the Chancellorship—
those appointments do, I say, give guarantee, strong as
it could be given, of my determination to adhere to
strict impartiality—my Right Hon. Friend, the Lord
Chancellor of Ireland, felt himself under obligation, as
he was in the receipt of a pension for the Chancellorship
—a pension honourably acquired by him, after a sacri-
fice of professional emolument, but for a short discharge
of public official duty—my Right Hon. Friend felt it to
be his duty at once to resume his present position. But
I do not hesitate to say, that if circumstances occurred
to prevent his assumption of office, I would have selected
from the Irish bar a Chancellor—l would have paid that
compliment to a portion of the profession, which stands
as high as any other portion of it in the empire. With
regard to what has been said of the impossibility of
my performing my public duty, with respect to other
matters—with respect to the domestic policy of this
country—l can assure the Noble Lord it is my
intention to act upon a sense of public duty,
and to propose those measures which my own
convictions of the public interest shall make me
desirous to carry. It is right that there should
be a distinct understanding as to the terms on which a
public man holds his place. The force of circumstances
and a sense of public duty have compelled me to un-
dertake the harrassing and laborious office which I now
fill. What would be any inducement to me to make
the sacrifices which it demands ? What can be an in-
ducement but the hope of rendering service to my eoun•
try and of acquiring honourable fame ? (Ministerial
cheers.) Would Igo through the labour which it im-
poses if I could not claim for myself the liberty of pro-
posing to Parliament those measures which I shall be-
lieve it my duty to propound ? Ido with confidence
assure those who hear me that no consideration of
mere political associations should induce me to hold such
an office as I now fill by servile tenure which should
compel me to be the instrument of carrying men's opi-
nions into effect.-(Hear, hear.) I do not estimate
lightly the distinction which it confers. It is
only valuable—not from the patronage which it
enables me to sustain—not from personal distinc-
tion—but it is only valuable to any man fit
for holding it for an hour from the opportunity
which it gives him of serving his country. Therefore I
feel that every man confers an obligation on me who
places me in this office ; but at the same time I reserve
to myself the power of giving up its onerous duties the
moment I feel I cannot discharge them with satisfaction
to the country and to myself.
Lord PALMERSTON said, whether the Right Hon.
Baronet had reascns for abstaining from making that ex-
position of his views which his (Lord Pahnerston's)
Noble Friend thought he ought to make before Parlia-
ment separated, and whether the reasons which he had
given were satisfactory to himself and to Hon. Members
who sat behind him, he (Lord Palmerston) could not
tell, but he would take leave to say that, having listened
with great attention to all that had fallen from the Right
Hon. Baronet, he did not think that the reasons he had
assigned would be held to be satisfactory by the country
at large.—(Opposition cheers.) The Right Hon. Ba-
ronet had challenged his Noble Friend to take the sense
of the House upon the opinions on which that side or
the other side might differ. They knew well, from the
results of the last elections, what the decision of
the House upon a question of that kind would be.
However the Hon. Baronet might plume himself on
the majority by which he was now supported, he would
tell him to refrain from reposing unlimited confidence in
that support, because he should recollect that there was
a country as well as a House of Commons.—(Ministerial
cheers and counter Opposition cheers.) Let him not too
confidently rely upon the opinion of that majority by
which he was supported, although technically he was en-
titled to represent it as the opinion of the country. Un-
doubtedly it was not with reference to our foreign rela-
tions that his Noble Eriend had said that the Right Hon.
Baronet ought to keep the Parliament sitting for a longer
period at .present, or call it together again at an
early period. It was not on that ground his
Noble Friend rested his observations. The first point
on which he thought some communications of its inten-
tions from a new Government were due to the country,
was with regard to the Corn-laws. I must say that I
think the reply of the Right Hon. Baronet on that
subject was any thing .but satisfactory. The Right
Hon. Baronet said that he had been out of office ten
years, but he had not been out of the country—he had
not been out of active occupation of public affairs—he
had not been out of that House—he knew what had been
passing in the country—he had given his attention to
the state of public affairs, and if any man was compe-
tent to form an opinion on the interests of the country,
especially on that particular question, he (Lord Palmer-
ston) said that the Right Hon. Baronet, from his attain-
ments, his habits, and his pursuits, was the man who was
competent to do so. But then the Right Hon. Baronet
said, that if he was to be reproached with not being
ready with an opinion on the Corn-laws, to what re-
proach was the last Government exposed, which remained
three years in office without having passed a measure
on that subject.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Why really
that argument he (Lord Palmerston) was rather'
surprised the Right Hon. Baronet would condescend
to use because it would be open to every man, when any
great measure was proposed, to say, " Why, you arelto
blame for not proposing that measure sooner." Why,
with respect to every measure of importance, there were
certain circumstances that led to the proposing of them,
and it was not a matter of reproach of those persons
who proposed them that they did not bring them
forward at an earlier period than the one at which they
chose to do so. However, those with whom he (Lord
Palmerston) acted in concert had proposed that measure.
When they proposed it before it might be said that the
question had not been laid before the public, that the
parties whom it interested had not been called on to look
at it with.a view to their own concerns ; but in the pre-
sent instance the question had been brought before the
public. The discussion of it had been defeated; how-
ever, by the proceedings of the last Parliament,' and
therefore the Right Hon. Baronet did not stand, with re
-
,reed to the Corn-laws, in 'the position which the
last Government stood with regard to that question.
He (Lord Palmerston) must now take that opportune
of saying, that the Right Hon. Baronet might have a -
stained from giving his authority to the frequently con-
tradicted misrepresentations of what had fallen from
Lord Melbourne in the other House of Parliament. The
Right Hon. Baronet had given his sanction to the stu-
diously circulated misrepresentations of that Noble
Lord's words.

Sir ROBERT PEEL, in a low tone of voice, made
some observations across the table. We understood_
Lord
Right Hon. Baronet to disclaim what the Noble L
r(eLmorak
drPstil on
Lordmers Melbourne's Palmerston)
)hadlatrttnies words.ihutedto him relative to his
Lord PALMERSTON went on to say that he under-
stood the .Right Hon. Baronet to allude to the opi-
nions of Lord Melbourne on the Corn-laws. The
Right Hon. Baronet said he wondered the colleagues
Gentlemen
et
of Lord Melbourne would remain in office with him, as
that Noble Lord disagreed with them on the measures
they proposed.
wasof Parliament, would see what Lord
ny
soiC often a theone hwahnod swof u lnotoiekul to that
or
op-
posite, I)soikte
Thehich
Mirror
Melbourne had said. That Noble Lord repudiated any
measure which would tend to deprive the agricultural
interest of all protection, but he was by no means pre-
pared to say that circumstances might not arise which
approvewould induce him
ittoightH
of a change in the existing
Corn-laws. Ihe Hon. Baronet said that he did
not mean to say what he (Lord Palmerston) attributed
to him. It was not with regard to any change in
the Corn-law which made Lord Melbourne express
that opinion—it was with regard to a chango
which would abolish all duty. The Right Hon.
Baronet gave them to understand that a change in the
Corn-laws he was prepared to propose, but that he re-
frained from proposing that change until he could do it
at the head of a united Government. Now, looking at
the constitution of that Government—seeing who were
the Members of which it was composed—looking at the
opinions of those who held high office in that Govern-
ment, but were not Members of the Cabinet—if the
Right Hon. Baronet said that he was to wait before
proposing his intended change in the Corti-laws till he

MORNINGS N

was at the head of a united' Governm,el t. he (Lhrd P.d.
merston) would verinm, to preitiet. ..,:ie :4- ' -H'i I;
quire not tile five months curet g whie;, _1'..., -
would be prorogued, but five years.—(Hear, liei.r./
But he (Lord Palmerston) did not think that to,
want of leisure stated prevented the Right Hoti. Baronet
from considering the subject. ' Ilis Noble Friend did I
urge him to it now—this week or - next week-but 141
Noble Friend objected justly that this 'question, 1101
been broached since the spring of the year, the head.
the new Government had ample tinge to e- form art ePin:joo,
on the subject, and Parliament. ShoUld not now bo 12:
ie
rogued till the beginning of February next, inciting ot
whole country in a state of uncertainty, not r.s4o '
.id
Government intended to propose, but whether OS %"„%d
propose any change at all. - As'to himself (Lord f.) ";si
those lately in 'power, they had been performillg I°,o
disagreeable offices, anti :nothing -could he re'
pleasing than a prolongation of relaxation froni bush; o_,
at the present time, Incu When a question was to be c,4
sidered which involved the interests of a great portie,,'A
the community, the Right Hon. Baronet was not iest';
in the course he intended to adopt. But the Right -11' a
Baronet said they expected him to state his visit's' "1,
asked, would even they themselves now stand by the D'l e•
sures which they proposed? He (Lord PalmerSten) Is
plied, undoubtedly they would. The Right Iliin). 13, ,gre to
said if by bad weather the price of eornliiidl'ssedi', y
80s. or 905., would they dare-to propose-theirli d 1..0
of Bs. ? The Right flan. Baronet talked e 4.13 :he
1
rising high in this country ;if he asMig 1 °Val
price had risen very high in the : 'aililtitil4e '
.:,,i
which corn was to come, then, inciceelie 4.1,1 t:, it
that the increased price and expen'SS"M.' itnP,oll'''"„Le
would be too great to admit of 'britigini it lute tlfie Tr
try. But it was hero that the:pride rnseAhe'Constill'.:nt
ing of a supply of corn under a fired dutk'vLarilti,tre`,.-..t
those fluctuations. which were noW •the' c4)o_e,:°`,, g,t-lo'f
suffering to the people; and an injury to tlV`i•rl,reLleTlL' it
the country. He did say,thatithey would Stilin*uY',-:',o
budget, and they. had ,a 'right, to; know the 'Metal, t•
which Hon. Gentlemen opposite would stand by I 1-0•7;':14
ever might be the weight 'of the'assdrtions of the )-"c,3,
Hon. Baronet as to his having little leisure for thoSe cled
siderations during the few days in which he was eioi;ratf
in forming a Government, when he' (Lord "'I 'l4t
that Government, he could well understand the trots
of forming it. He was not in the least disposeal° 'rein
derrate it, but he maintained that Parliament ought.`g
to be sent to the right about till February next, Mee
the country in total ignorance whether they were L„,°,,d'.l
the Corn-law as it was, or whether they meant '•,,,-,0 of
the sliding scale, or whether they were for a SY,s,:-,„- ( it•
fixed duty, and intended to propose that. to Pare.arie of
That was the opinion which they maintained, e°,_-„,, es
would not oblige Hon. Gentlemen by giving tue7,,c 1
opportunity of counting on that question their ee Of
majority. Still he thought the country woUld '' .4
opinion that both the agricultural and the manufaet°:(':-'
interests should be informed as to the intentions °' oe
vernment ; and all parties should feel that noW A
country should not let the Parliament separate Lear.)
long a period without coming to any decision.--(-1
Well, then, the Right Hon. Baronet said that pr'i ill/
was made to show how little they had conshleree„se.
question ; that in the budget, for instance, the I'''',,ll
01, cellor of the Exchequer was wrong even 16'11;11i
showing. And, first, with regard to timber. Th6.1,11e
Hon. Baronet stated that even according to the es-u„.4
tion of the late Chancellor of the Exchequer, the'ell;
in the timber duty would not produce the amount-ertor
lated. And why ? What proof did he propose;i--0
thing stated by his (Lord P's..) Right Hon. Friend' -.;,-ei• t,
thing. Anything stated by the budget ? NI °t.V.Ol
but an opinion of the Governor-Genera
.. , ,
Canada and a Report of the House of Connr°;il-.4
(Hear, hear.) Why, the simple answer t°' :cos
was, that whatever weight was justly due to that 4,l)Piee
or recommendation that was not the measure thee!; to
Government had proposed to Parliament, and ther 1 i,
that elaborate argument fell entirely to the gr°',. r
because it rested not upon the late Government' l'• r
posal, but on an opinion of Lord Sydenham, arlar''air
commendation of a Committee of the House of -„_(!f11
mons.—(Cheers.) The same with regard to ''T.3O.
The Right Hon. Baronet said that they (the late
~,,i
vernment) had reckoned that so much foreign •s-usicl
would be imported to pay the higher duty, but F'eti Cie
,
the quantity of British sugar so greatly exceed- - ~,a
calculation, that the price had fallen considerabl r' ,rot
I therefore foreign sugar at a higher duty would ,i;
meet with the demand necessary to produce the f'l3l“,)l' /
0 ,
of duty expected. This, again, was a falliseY•
i„
late Chancellor of the Exchequer had made his eael, 'e
tions either way. He had said, "If the supply ce,,,e, e
tish sugar continued small, and the price therefore 'll,O
then I get the duty I want by the duty iel it
foreign sugar that comes in; if, on the contrary, th.erele
an unexpected increase in the supply of English Suf-',,
then that increased supply will give an increase dr`,4
duction of duty at the rate of 245., and in that woe' I ede
the supply I want. If the consumption in 1841 NU LIS pt
consumption in 1831, then I get the amount I w ent,al
the 245. duty, ,and anything made on foreign ;lk
brought in will be so much gained in addition to thf;:es
want."—(Hear, hear.) Then the Right Hon. Bar°. oil
stated that not only therefore was our budget defie', 4
with regard to the amount the late Government reclOti;)
on getting—with regard to which he (Lord l'aueei',„st ')ls
had shown that his argument was fallaciolls-T-afe
stated that he found, on looking through the " '°Vi!lit
ments of the Government, that the expenses
country greatly exceeded what had been stated vrt
now demands were daily coming in, and he (Sir 3° i)te
Peel) said, " Can anything be - more unreafiove,i,i
than to expect me to state any fre2'll,eS
views before I know what these additional 'exPV"„ot
are?" His Noble Friend (Lord John Russell) ha" •:,e
asked the Right Hon. Baronet to mike a financial ,st.,,
went then.—(Hear, hear.) He had stated so distint/i
He said certainly that the Right Hon. Baronet si °eat
state his opinion as to the measures the late Govern cej of
had proposed, since they were measures not niere4f4
finance, but affecting the general interests of the cos Ae.of
But the representations the Right Hon. Baronet no'ut „I
those unexpected demands was not altogether so grroil
was required for the justification he was making.
ite,
were told, with regard to China, that the expereje_ "-oil
exceeded the 400,0001. stated in the estimate ; rj°,,ip;t
Right Hon. Baronet also stated that the excess wow; ~i
be called for till the year 1842, and therefore wee!ie" eee
be added to the deficiency of the present year.---(-1-: el'
hear.) The Right Honourable Baronet said tha'',,e,
accounts had been received on which a detailed estizeliS
could be framed. He must know the reason was' i
va,
the expense of the expedition was defrayed by ther,,Pif.
India Company, and that it was only when the "/„.(:0
pany's accounts were made out, that he could state, reP,a
their claim was, and therefore the operation was °„° ;14J
simple as if the bills were drawn on the Treasury '``,„ .1
first instance. " But then," said the Right Hon. Eafn,":locl.#
"I have authority which enables me to form an 011.;r 10,
and that is a letter from the Captain of a man-of4i-ese"
A
Mr. Noble, who was taken yrisoner by the Cish,.e,
And that letter, written in the style in which an °,°,i,„ei
spondence between friends on such occasions was wr.:;•ef.t
was offered to the House of Commons by the -',..115-•
Honourable Baronet as a ground on ' which 1w,..el
cial calculations were to be made.—(Hear, and Chet'
Then they were told that they came to something i11'.4
gible, for Captain Senhouse said that they were, base,on at such a rate, and spending his money so extil'.ceil
gently, that they actually proposed to make a .1113,,,iniia.re
the whole extent of the Island of Hong-Kon•g.—Oft-1 e‘
ter.). He (Lord Palmerston) did not know the eaten be
that island; whether.it was five miles or seven reiie:a e°
~,
was not prepared to say ; but if the Government f,,;0111
other unexpected deficiency to provide for, he t." 7710
they would not find.much difficulty in getting out °„,- 10
emoarrassment.—(Hear.) He then came to Ausl-iii i
respecting which the Right Hon. Baronet sta';ed It) 1
enormous expenditure had been contemplated hY.ea l
Governor-General: But what did his Noble Fr, ji,
(Lord John Russell) ? The moment he heard of 111,1,1
stopped it.—(" No," from Sir Robert Peel.) Ile -„le
not stop it all, ut he stopped all that he ' c7s-ti3
Then, said the Right Hon. Baronet, 500,000/. ninti e)
be provided for by the country. He (Lord Paliner7,l°l)ti
was satisfied that if not all, at least 300,0001. we LIT be
provided for by the colony ; but if 200,0001. she t'cli"
chargeable on the country that would be the reircil 10
but he had reason to hope that no such claim ty""l2- rlll''
made. The Right Ron. Baronet then stated 111„at:rt tt:
bills drawn in New Zealand were expected to ts'int•i-,31-kate('
100,0001., whereas the late Government had. 'es
-11-„,- nc6,
them only at 6,000/. Why, -the Right Hon• ''e„,•-re°oo(`
knew full well that an excess of expenditure `Thbi't
the estimated amount, was liable tell happen 1. t3:45
certain limits at all times, in all years ; lira ife,ts'
Right Honourable Baronet postponed the St
tke
ment of his financial views until he got et
colonies in such a state of order that no Goyerni°,,iCi
of the most remote island could draw more bills 010'04
was authorised to draw, he (Lord Palmerston) for
afraid the House of Commons might be prorogue" ~5)
proposed theole
even a longer period than to February next.--(Chet° ~f.O
insufficient,HrGiee 0n
(vdiLef.
rotnrhlmdet
ecnjhbtoaahrdhngaeriießofnfeuors let:
He thought, therefore, all those reasons would .",: i.
financial measures ; but that was .n theP obecti°l3 '
beenbe e n th at.et hFe
th li ei sr
a tNi oonbsl
was incumbent on the Government which "_., 1.,
him. out on those (Chee ,'1..7,
great trestions—
he were •
whichit v
.., in power-.now they had a nrdi''':iti"ieg
reference
stiochiet)en Noble
r o}p'riend j'3i'
. • ic i would enable them to their riue-2"'
carry- ri
they v
into practice—to, say whether or not.ouro
tended while ' in ower to pursu the same ° •is
they had outpursued,e • 1 -eats°,
of power, to refuse all ra a• e
..thhacglretalj.it.oeiri!:o:s(l,l
stao
of our commercial system—(Hear, hear)—and re -,,e sd'
on the prin • ciples of restriction and mono oly.—(Ctl-t-foe'
The
!light Hon. Baronet said that that pwas not a - ti,o,
"
at which those matters could be properly settled bYbel
G
overnment. He (Lord Palmerston) adiritted that ts,l •
had not had leisure for many things, b'at Inc did 1411 A
nit that, with regard to the Corn-queF'cion, any new of , Ives "• • o
could be thrown upon it by ran • k: sac Ir. g- the archives i, )5
Board of Trade, or the Foreign-oF - H •)---be-
.ce—( (Hear )"b•0 h-
all the information that was desirable had lone' het'• lilt
fore the people ; and if any mi.n could not make 1113...:..0.
mind on that information, he thought lie • might 1`: ,er
himself blind, or spend his
•_l'ire at it, yet not aro r,E'liojti
moment sooner at, a satisfactory conclusione-"0
cheering.) But, the Right Honourable Baronet ii:', it
there were great public reasons which reuderetaw,
impossible to state the views of the Government °,l efe.;se
questions—that many commercial negotiations
will.,
pending with foreigr_ nations--that there were neg is
tiaras with Frew.,e
about a tariff that a eenTer4o4
treaty was penr):ing between England and Portugal-00
a commercie.i treaty had been proposed With Texritelfi
that it w•„ possible commercial negotiations nu 7; rite'openFd. with the United States of America and with fer
Braids. All these things were true, but that '3''''d epee
his (Lord Pahnerston's) argument and not for the 'Vat'
meat of the Right Hon. Baronet.—(Hear, heel's') atitri
more countries with whom we had unsettled Deg ate
titres relating to commercial intercourse the more elreel
.
cent was it to proceed without loss of time ',O retOtpe,
the fetters that incumbered the industel el
these'
country.—(Cries of "Hear, hear.") Luleed, 110
matters were not fit subjects for negociat;,on. SIIQ