The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-06 00:00:00

THE SUIST,_, LONDON.,

toseewoosonsawiessimesemeaseewswel"-"""'s eeoesisessessewesseste—weesseweseesewseesoewseee
inspecting engineers and ethers, who would be re- s Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL said that a difficulty would also
Tilted to carry out tite arrangement, would cause I arise from the positions of the Roman Catholic clergy in Ire-
au immense expenditure et money. The imoortanee of the land in the several parishes. He was himself entitle.l to
question, however, unsier the Poor Relief Bill, could not be officiate as a guardian, but he had not qualified, and he appre-
hver-estitnated. If she Government would say that it had heodeti that the same indisposition vsould be felt by the
made 119 its mind on the subject it might be worthy of con- Roman Catholic clergy. He thought the better plan would
'flirtation, whether it would not be better to discuss it n,w be to leave out the whole clause, and take the discussion on
,„!ut to postpone it to a future occasion, but if the question bringing up the report.
"'lght be sonedered to be still open, then he had no objection The House then divided, when there appeared—
t°l4Postpoiiement . For the amendment ..• ••• ... .. 32
Mt. LABOUCHERE would not pledge the Government Against it ••• ••• "• ... ... ... 128
air course of the kind. Majority against the amendment —95
to a
M. M. O'FERRAL said that what he wanted was not to The amendment was consequently lost, and the clause was
Pleas the Government to any particular course, but that they agreed to.
shout leave the subject open for discussion on a future Clauses 4 and 5 were then agreed to.
oecann. M MOn the proposition of clause 6,
hc kind r. ORGAN J. O'CONNELL thought the clause was
M. LABOUCHERE would Dive no assurance of t
Teepee,. clumsily worded. Its object was to connect the district corn-
s.'6 H. W. BARRON regretted the tone of the Hon. mittees with the central committee in Dublin.
Getleman below him (Mr; Labonehere). He saw the Mr. BERNAL OSBORNE did not mean to meet the Bill
grit danger of allowing the extension of the Poor- with any hostility, but he thought the machinery might be
law in the manner proposed ; as the electoral dis- amended.
tries as they now snood were quite too large Alter the proposition of some verbal amendments by the
Bests convinced that if the Poor-law were extended in Ireland Chancellor of the Exchequer, the clause, with his alterations
IV
' tot confined to territorial responsibility, the greatest mis-
was agreed to.
thief would result to the landlords, and every other interest. On clause 7 being proposed,
rho system of electoral districts had not the effect of stimulat. Lord CLEMENTS said that this clause was simply a varia-
ng landlords to improve their properties, and to give employ- tion of the 18th clause, and on these two clauses the whole
neat, but by narrowing the amount of taxation, that effect Bill hinged; and it appeared that a deficiency had occurred,
'could result, and the country be greatly benefited. There from the Government having neglected to ascertain which of
Ras oe landlord, under such circumstances, who would support the poor ought to be relieved, and who not. They had
the poor that might be upon his property in idleness, if he blinked the question in every stage, and then they proposed a
could procure employment for them. And he was surprised 6/. rating. Why, did they know what a 61. rating was, and
that this argument had not some effect on the Hon. Gentleman how it would affect the people? Under the clause, as it now
below him 01r. Labouchere), The only tangible argument stood, anybody might be relieved. He knew persons of in-
of any force which he had heard against
clearance of townl nd dependent property, who would be under the 6/. rating
division was, that it would tend to a of the estates. many industrious people, who were well off, would be free
Now it occurred to him that it was strange that the Right Hon. from it. Why, under this clause, the Right Hon. Gentle-
Gentleman did not see that a remedy could be applied man the Secretary for Ireland might efthimsl go and receive the
for the prevoon of that. He, himself (Sir 11. W. Barron), relief.—(Laughter.) If they proceeded as he Bill stood, the
had a notice m the books of the House, "that the landlord farmer would compete with the labourer for the work. Then it
should be botnd by law to support every person that he ejected was perfectly impossible for any one to work the accounts, as he
from
min property, for either three or five years. The system firmly believed that out of the 21,5'20 persons to be employed
of comunities, advocated by the Right Hon. Gentleman, there was not one that would understand the accounts. There
might be very well in theory, but when reduced to practice, it were more difficulties in this Bill than the Right Hon. Gen-
would bt found by no means so efficient as the town land tleman the Secretary for Ireland anticipated, and he thought
system. f they were to have the English law adapted to it was indispensably necessary that the clauses he
alitd alluded
Ireland, It them have the division into parishes, intiodueed as to should be amended. He would suggest that as st of the
in Englarl. There every parish supported its own poor, and destitution of the party requiring relief, the sum he had pre.
in ninetynine cases out of a hundred, a parish in England was vionsly been rated at, should not exceed 4/.
not one Furth the extent of an electoral district, neither in Mr. LABOUCHERE entertained a strong opinion, that it
size, in erne, nor in any other respect were they analogous. would be most inexpedient to attempt to lay down any distinct
He hoptt that the House would not adopt the vicious principle definition as to who should be entitled to relief. Still he was
of throing the whole responsibility upon property in Ireland, ready to admit, that under the Labour-rateAct, persons had
for sucia principle would render all their efforts at legislation been employed who, so far frem
atege, had the means
for Irelnd, vain.—( Hear, hear.) in their own hands of procuring very excellent subsistence.
Mr. 3ELLEW said that the House could not lose sight of He was not so sanguine as to suppose that this Bill would not
the quetion, that the Irish population was in some way to be be liable to the same difficulties and objections ; but at all
provider for ; but it could not be done by the principle of events, under its provisions the imposition could not be so sue-
throwir the whole burden upon the landed property, as such eessfully practised as it had been under the Labour-rate Act.
a mown would be little short of a confiscation. In Mayo, Under that Act ,in many instances, public virtue had given
Srso, aid many other counties, the rental of the estates would way to self-interest ; but as the present Bill did
beeaten up by being obliged to support those who were upon not provide for the distribution of money, but of food, there
then. He understood that the Hon. Member for Northamp- would not be the same temptations. With regard to fixing the
tonhire wished that out-door relief should be given to the test at 41., he thought it most unwise to pursue any such
ablebodied paupers, and he believed that the Irish Members course, because it was not impossible that persons who had
genrally, were not in favour of such a principle, but on the been higher rated might be
reduced to the lowest depths
contary, were opposed to it ; and, he believed, that such a of destitution. He must, therefore, decline to adopt the sug-
prireiple woud be most injurious, as it would throw too much gestion of the Noble Lord.—(llear, hear.)
restonsibiliteupon the townlands, which rarely exceeded two Mr. F. FRENCH perfectly agreed with the last remark of
or wee hundred acres, whilst the present district amounted to the Right Hon. the Secretary for Ireland. He knew many
six thou4nd acres in some instances. persons who had been rated at upwards of 61. who were new
Lord DON MANNERS confessed that when he heard in a state of most pitiable destitution.
the Riot Honourable Gentleman object to the propo- After a few words from Mr. BELLEW,
sition of the Honourable Member for Northamptonshire, The clause as amended was agreed E.
fer its no being in strict accordance with the principles of the On clause te, which provides for the issuing of warrants di-,
English lw, he
accordrprised. Supposing that the proposition rected to the guardians, requiring them to pay the amount o'
did not wictly acwith the English law, if it produced a the estimate to the person named in the warrant, being put,
Facticaltood in Ireland, why should it be reiected? The Colonel CONOLLY thought it rather an unreasonable
Right 11n. Gentleman also went on to say, that he wished the thing to compel them to collect
such large sums of money,
House tssanction the principle that a man was more to regard when it was already well known that they were totally unable
the way e performed his duties to the community than the to collect money to the distress of the districts.
way he ascharged his duties to his property. His firm con- Mr. B. OSBORNE thought that it was quite likely that
con-
viction ege, that the community would best be served when no
vest. It would
rates would ever be colletein Irelnd until the next har-
. be much better for then Government to allow
intlivitel rig.hts and individual ditties were properly main
tai
lie was
only an English Member of that House, but those unions who had overdrawn their account to pay interest
pardoned if he now took some further on such sums until they were paid.
he thought he might be
in
in this question. He thought that the Right Hon. Mr. ROEBUCK thought it rather strange that the Go-
Genteman. in laying down his principles with respect to the vernment should be called upon to advance money upon inte-
duties to tie community, was laying the foundation for an in- rest t.i persons whom the Hon. Member had stated were totally
creased arise for taxation under the English poor-law. As an unable to collect the rates or repay the loans. Irish Members
English Nember, he should be prepared whenever the seemed quite prepared to take the money, but had no idea of
question vas discussed, to pay attention to the opinion repaying it. He believed that all the charities of Ireland had
expressed by the
be Members for Kildare and been and would be misapplied, and would go into the pockets
Waterford :and not be led away by the expression of those who were trading upon the miseries of Ireland.
of opinior with reference to feudalism, which had nothing to Lord CLEMENTS said that it was quite true that the
do with tie question. money had been misapplied; but it had been misapplied by
Mr. OtBORNE said he would not trespass Chadh upen the Government, and that, too, upon their own confession.
the time d the House by the observations he to make. The poor had been defrauded of their money, and the farmers
He tkottglt that the arguments adduced by the Right Hon. and more respectable people had received that which the poor
Gentleman would certainly carry him to approve of the expe- should have had. Ile fully concurred in the opinion that the
iu.'rericy of national
rate. He thought that the Hon. Member rates would not be paid before the next harvest, even if then;
j";Tortbastninp3!onshire had been somewhat misrepresented in for in his opinion there would be nothing like crops for the next
this debate wish regard to the opinion he had expressed, bnt harvest.
his its oNeet in rising was to draw the attention of the Mr. ROSS wished to deny the charge which had been made
House to what he tl:ought as serious a matter. He did not against the landowners a few nights since by the Hon. and
before the House went into Coin- Learned Member for Bath, whom he characterised as coming to
wish to interpose any sle!=tY
mittee. He wished to wash
his hands from the responsibility the House and begging them to save them from ruin.
of agreeing to this measure wteich her Majesty's Government Mr. S. O'BRIEN thought it quite impossible for the rates
had brougit forward for the temporary relief of the to be collected. There were hundreds of persons rented at more
destitute soon He had a strong opinion upon this than 4/. per annum who were not cultivating their land, and
Bill. lit gave the Government every credit for kind who would be perfectly unable to pay the rates. He thought
and good intentions in introducing it. He believed the imposition of any relief test would prove a failure. It was
that no men were actuated by better intentions, and an important question, and it was right that the attention of the
he also believed that next to the unfortunate people Government should be fully called to the subject. It was not
who vine now starving ins reland they were much to be pitied• without great consideration on this subject that her Majerty's
The stateof things in Irend had got to that dreadful crisis, Goverhment had decided upon the present measures. It was
that it was difficult to propose any measure sufficient as a true that the Hon. Gentleman had stated that there
remedy. He believed that the measure proposed would not were many parts of Ireland where the rate could be
be effectual. It would set into operation two systems, and would collected, but there were many other parts of the country where
cause continual drains of money from this country, and that, 1 it could not be collected, and in the cases that had been called,
he could assure the Hon. Member for Bath, he was most where it was not collected, he believed it was not owing to the
anxious to avoid. There were 500,000 people working on the neglect of those whose duty it was to collect the rents. It
roads in Ireland, and it was intended to employ and feed them. had been said they we: e imposing duties on the officers of the
If they gave each of them a quart of soup per day, that, at the poor-law different to those for which they were engaged ; but
lowest estimate, would cost ld. per head, or 10,000:. per day, it was the duty of these officers to do all that was required of
70,000/ per week, or three millions a year; and yet during all them for the collection of the rents as essential to their func-
this time the labour-rate did not cease They were certain in tions.
bringing this test to promote the cultivation of the country. Mr. °SLOANE and Major M{Nsesetooo rose at the same
No man who merely got his quart of soup would undertake time, but the latter gave way.
e
agricultural labour, and he had been informed by medical
Me. OSBORNE—The statement mad. by the Hon,
men that soup was not sufficient food for them, ber for Northampton was strictly true.
There were instancesMm
and there was neither accommodation in the way of ovens, or in Clare of some of the small farmers having gone on the
meal to put into them. Even the workhouses were short of public roads. Notwithstanding what had been said by
bread. Phis measure for temporary relief would not produce the Hon. Member for Bath, he did not think the rate could be
any permanent benefit, nor tend to the cultivation of the soil. collected.
After a few words from Lord BERNARD, the House went Major M'NAMARA made a few remarks which were in-
into Committee. audible.
Mr. C. O'BRIEN was ready to prove that many of the
On clause 1 being proposed,
Mr. F. FRENCH said that in the first clause he eh- statements that had been made in the course
served that there were many °ffi''ers to be appointed by the debate were quite erroneous. He could p ove that
Commissioners subject to the approval of the Lord Lieutenant. every statement put forward by Ca twin Wn e
He objected much to the principle, and he thought that the with respect to the county of Clare, was unfoundned.
responsibility ought to fall upon the Lord Lieutenant himself. He had treated the inhabitants as savages Clare ,but they wre no
He would propose, therefore, that the words " subject to the such thing. In that part of the county in which he resided no
approval of the Lord Lieutenant" should be struck out in the difficulty was experienced in collecting the rates, and the
16th clause. were a sufficient security for the repayment of whatever money
After a few words from Sir G. GREY, which did not reach the Government might advance. He hoped, however, the
the gallery, Government would institute an inquiry into the charges which
Lord CLEMENTS said that he thought the responsibility Captain Wynne had made, and not to allow him to continue
ought to be thrown definitely on the Lord Lieutenant, as the to hold the office he did at a salary of 5001. a-year, with the
mere necessity of his approval of the appointments would give assistance of a secretary, which the county had to pay.
rise to many abuses. He did not see how those officers who Mr. P. SCROPE hoped the House would not be led away
had other engagements to fulfil could properly administer the from the great question before them by personal recrimination.
The great object to be obtained was to save millions of the peoon-.
present law. pie from perishing, and to prevent the money, proposed to be
Mr. LABOUCHERE said the Hon. Member had com-
tehx
ep eone de en dp
y; i
obgu
tt
enifantths,"thaety-
tempted c ed
t, 0 feroolml e ebt e
ti nh ge
pseted of all the appointments requiring the . sancrion
of the Lewd Lieutenant. Upon the fullest consideration,alespf reorml y
of the yies-eion, the Government thought this course the most
would create the same confusion which they did in 1e,35, when
military,
t. the rates at once
yt to collect tithes
desirable. ire also complains that several of the Commis-. they attempted, by the aid of the ''•
sioners, having other appointmeets, could not purposely attend from the tenants. It was advisablemtt
to the duties imposed on them by the present measure. The upon the landlords, who were
true state of the case watt, that Sir John Burgoyne and Sir in a condition to give l amp e
security to the Government for whatever ad
Randolph Routh would have All their time devoted to the Ea
-vances they might
make on thecredit t
o their tenantry.
sure; while Sir John Macgregor, colonel Jones, and Mr. Red-
Th
TaeCHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUERexplained
ington, would be able to afford them important assistance.
thatwhat he
Mr. Redington, in a communication which he (Mr. Labrou-
chere) had received from him, said that he really b9lleved that Founties, as many of its inhabitants had acted very turbulently,
there)
the rrangement proposed, they should gain a great for instance the Lord-Lieutenant had been compelled to stop,
deal of time, and very much simplify the business. ,a some said some of the works, in consequence of the riotous conduct of
those employedh
also that the commissioners appointed would be quite sufficient b
the on
same
em. A murderous attack had recently
for the duties, and that the board would be quite sufficient for aeon made, ame county. An extract from Captain
Wynne s report, however, stated that the people had returned
all present purposes.
Mr. B. OSI3ORNE would not oppose the clause, but
Si
l ; former masters, he believed the
to tees report to be true.
plained of the enormous duties that would be thrust on Sir Mr, C. O'BRIEN stated that Captain Wynne had brought
Johu Burgoyne, and Sir Randolph Routh. He considered charges against him which had been investigated by the board,
that local boards ought to be appointed in the various districts and their utter groundlessness proved. Now he complained
to relieve the duties of the central commissioners. If the Bill that the report did not contain any allusion to the matter.
M
was to work at all there must be local boards. Mr. JOHN O'CONNELL said that there was a great
Lord CLEMENT & did aching wish to press his amendment at doubt whether the rates would be paid in Irelsnd. The land-
present, but thought the mry was defective in its pre lords might be able to pay them, but the poor tenants would
gent form. not. He thought that if they wished to keep the people alive
The amendment was then withdrawn, and it must be by a large grant of money.
After a few words from the CHANCELLOR of the EX- Mr. SMITH O'BI:IEN said that it would be impossible
CI7EQUER, to collect the rates in many districts, and more especially
The se was agreed to. where the Noble Lord ( Clements) lived. In many places they
Clause i was agreed to without discussion. were not able to pay rents much less taxes, and therefore he
On the resolution that clause 3 stand part of the Bill, thought it would be impossible to collect the rates from the
Mr. S. O'BRIEN moved, as an amendment, that those poor of Ireland.
parties who had subscribed to a certain amount should
be eh- Mr. DISRAELI supported the suggestion of the Hon.
gible in their respective districts for seats in the local boards Member for Clare with regard to a committee, and read a
of management. letter from Captain Wynne to the board reflecting on the
Mr. F'. FRENCH approved of the amendment. conduct of Mr. O'Brien, and other magistrates of the county
Mr. OSBORNE hoped the suggestion would be at- of Clare, as well as ihe state of society in h
t at county generally.
tended to. Mr. CORNELIUS O'BRIEN hoped the Hon M b
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER objected to for Shrewsbury would not take the ' *em er
words of Capt. Wynne as
the alteration proposed. gospel. That letter had been written by him for the
Colonel CONNOLI.Y thought the amendment of the Hon. of raising himself in the estimation of the Board.puritior
Member for Limerick would be a great improvement. became Capt. Wynne to talk in a derogatory manner of hitlnl
The Earl of LINCOLN was in favour of limiting the num- (Mr. O'Brien) or his colleague, for there was a transaction in
ber of
.the Committee. Let them suppose it composed of per- which he was concerned in the county Limerick, which did not
baps individuals, and he was assured that with the peculiar contribute much to his reputation. He took into his barrack
temperament of the Irish the hesiness could be proceeded with. room the wife of , (cries :of " Oh, oh,)—and after-
He thought, therefore, that the cit:use as it stood would meet ward ©House an allegation of seduction—(cries oft—
all the difficulties of the case. If th would grant him a committee of inquiry he wOuld
Mr. SHAW thought that the clause should specify justices prove the truth of all he stated.
either resident within the electoral districts, or having pro- Mr. LABOUCHERE said that he considered it due after
party there. He was quite prepared, however, to leaVO' the what had been said, to the character of a public servant, to
whole matter in the discretion of the Lord-Lieutenant and ths7 bear his testimony to his merits. He knew it to be
Board of Management. tiles opinion f every merits of the Irish Govern-
Mr. JOHN O'CONNELL
urged •in the strongest manner, ment,although the had many officers who dis-
that y ..
upon the Government the propriety of including is duties with ability, fidelity, and zeal, yet there
in the clause charged (inert._
the clergymen in the respective districts.A et excelled that of Captain Wynne.
He considered that was no person whoa!' ,conduct
by ao doing they would secure the 1 art under circumstances of
classes. confidence of the poorer He acted a most gallant aPu mantY_P
H 1 Mr. Labouchere) never
Mr. OSBORNE thought the most adverse description. ee-
the whole matter might e therefore could have no
the discretion of the Lord-Lieutenant.
unjust and
Mr. LABOUCHERE could not see personal interest in rising to defend hint
from an.
the propriety of fjustice. He did
ing such unlimited powers to the Lord-Lieutenant. rrhgrant- unfair attack—his only motive was a sense o
to dis ii',
taken the guardians of the respective unions, together Ztyhhtre not wish to enter into any question in reference.
Wynne
resident justices. With respect to the clergymen, he which might have existed between Captain
_y ,
was sure andthe Honourable only regretted that
that the Government had no desire t o ca
cast the the should have the House, He
slightest reflection on the clergymen of Ireland, whether these only felt • been brought before
entitled
belonged to the Established or the Roman Catholic Church. He tothe it due to Captain Wynne to say that he 1
(Mr. Labouchere) bore testimony to the great exertions of tionstf,rsattitude of the country, for it was mainly iexer-
that body during the existing visitation. He believed that hear.) He was
peace of the country was preservetl—(hear
without their assistance it would have been impossible to have there were i.tready to agree with Hon. Gentlemen that.
preserved the peace of the country. But they had no desire was most unjustgea to abuses on many of the public works, but it
iall • as the Lord
to extend the power': in the clause., more espec y In many parts of
say that such exceptions were the rule.
Lieutenant could avail ilmself of the advice of the clergy when very well conducted, the country the public works were
and every body did their duty,
he found it necessary to do so. and none but the really destitute
After a few words from Sir D. NOR REYS, the amendment them. By the
exertions were employed opoo
was negatived without a division. and the co-operation of theßoard gentry, groatand ' incalculable good
51r- 'W. S. O'BRIEN then proposed another r amendment in had been effected. He hoped
the same clause, that after the word " poor," in jo:e 21, these there, and that the House
reside- the Bill. would be allowed to proceed with
words be introduced, " Clergymen of all denomination:
inMn the electoral districts " Mr. C. O'BRIEN said that th
Mr. .I'. FRENCH trusted. the Hon. Member would not press ai-.:i his colleague, had
been
suppressed, and not a word had
Mr. AGLlONBYconcede Mr. SHA os Old, that although afe
the ame . - thought that Government should w abuses mi ht have
niimetit to the wishes of the Irish Members. They had existed, it was by no ;mans the general rule. ' g
had expe • NI, hen it was
experience, and therefore
they ought to be placed on the most erroneously stated that
Committee. ' enera were receiving the funds des-
Sir G. GREY said tined for the destitute. A landlord, ;;',4re,l lathe count Leitrim,
arise out of this that a t difficulty would naturally had informed him, within the last two ci -. ' 4 O"tofy7o
great ays,tha,...4•' W. rent
proposition
times, who would claim ti, for the ministers of fifty denomina- his agent, a most intelligent gentleman, had reporteti ;‘, him
confusion. Then th the right, and there would be endless that all he could collect was 5/. He had visited all -the
were the clergy. ureetrwuould be another difficulty as to who tenants, and he did riot believe, so destitute were they of
leveree
supposed that it was intendestde it
would not for a moment be thing, that_thehy could pay one farthing more—was iyr,
i:lnputation upon the Catholicirthe slightest degree to cast any then, to call t ose unfortunate people farmers, farmers re-
erey •i ceiving relief —( Hear, hear.) He did believe that the
After a few words from Sir R.r.P. money
MalinEKS+ the latter of \thorn ERGUSON and Lord JOHN ,
would be repaid—at least the greater portion of it—and he
stated that it was his intention ' could assure the Government of this, at least, that they would
()support the Zraypdaient
__. t i meet the most 411404 and cordial purport from every laud.

ord in Ireland who were only desirous to assist by every means
in their power.—( Hear, hear.)
Lord BERNARD said that he spodke the sent
timonts of
all
great majority of the people in Irelan, when he stated hat I
they wanted was a loan of money, which they would honestly
I
repay.
Mr. S. CRAWFORD said, that in the part of Ireland with
which he was connected, the landlords had punctually paid
I their rates. When it was said that then
n
to pay the
rates arose from the landlords, it was casting an unjust reflee-
tion upon them. He trusted, that if the rates could not other-
wise be collected, they should be levied from the lands, for the
English public ought not to be disappointed, nor the Irish peo-
ple left to starvation.
The clause, with verbal amendments, was agreed to.
en
Clauses 9, 10, and 11, were th agreed to.
110 n clause 12 being proposed,
Mr. S. O'BRIEN said that the consideration of this clause
ha better be ostoned until Monda as it did not determine
fairly whetherp thep rates for out-doory, relief should be levied
upon the electoral districts or the unions generally.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER tt the
question had better remain open until the bringingsaid ha
up of the
report on Monday.
Lord LINCOLN wished the law as laid down in this Bill td
remain in accordance with the present law in Ireland. It was
true that an application had been made to the Government to
allow the rates to be levied upon the electoral districts, and it was
necessary that the law as it stood should remain unaltered as
the greatest, confusion would arise from any attempt at
change. It would be better to postpone the matter until the
other measure, with reference to the poor in Ireland, then
before the House, should be decided.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the
Noble Lord had said quite correctly, that all expenses should
be charged to the electoral division, but the law as it at pre-
sent existed, enacted that a twelve months residence out of
eii,fhteen in the electoral district should let the expense fall on
that district, but a less period of residence would cause the ex-
pense to fall upon the general union. The question must be
referred td the Commissioners for the execution of the law.
After some further conversation,
Mr. ROEBZICK begged leave to move that Mr. Greene
should leave the chair and report progress.
After a few remarks from sir. DISRAELI,
This course was agreed to, and the chairman reported
progress.
TheTh e
other
House
ordersthen resumed.ofthe
da y
were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned until Four o'clock on Monday.

IRISH RAILWAYS BILL.
That our Contemporary, the, Times, should resist any
scheme whatever which has for its object the extension of
railways in general, and that Mr. Roebuck should spitefully
attack any measure, however benevolent, for the ameliora-
tion of the condition of the Irish people in this the hour of
their misfortune, are things of course. The country will not
be surprised by the opposition of the one or the malignity of
the other. It will, possibly, not be astonished by the glaring
mis-statements contained in the angry effusions of either.
They who have read but cursorily the admirable and loci
speech of the Noble Lord the Member for Lynn will have
gathered at least from his statement, that no proposition is
made to the people of England to part with one sixpence of
their property, in order to make a bold and final endeavour
towards the recovery of their brethren in the sister island.
Great as the object is, imminent as the crisis has
become, no one class of the people, no single in-
dividual in England does his Lordship propose to
burden or to tax for the relief and benefit of
the people in Ireland. England, in an emergency
unparalleled, to accomplish a good, the extent of
which it is impossible to overrate, is asked simply
to lend, not her money, but her credit, to the country
to which she is bound by common laws, common interests
and rights, in order to enable her to rise from degradation to
prosperity, from want to plenty, and to assume, with respect
to England, that honourable position which hitherto she has
not known, but which the saddest experience has taught us
is as necessary to the well-being of the one country as it is
to the tranquillity of the other. Not the grant of a farthing
is demanded. If there is anything clear in the matter it is
this simple fact. The request is solely for credit to obtain a
loan, which shall be secured as amply as the most scrupulous
can wish. In no one case does Lord George Bentinck ask
the Government to advance the smallest portion of that loan,
except on the approval and certificate of the constituted
board of Railway Commissioners, unless a third of the amount
appliedy for
woks
nd advancedy asn be
has s beentan alreadyan d
.nn
ilexpendedthe wl
eyni
etrhee-f
the works are ready to be given as security for the oa e
quired. That which is so plain to the humblest under-
standing could hardly have escaped the acute penetration
of our sagacious Contemporary, and the equally sharp
mind of the Hon. Gentleman to whom we refer, and
who deems it his duty to retail on the floor of the house of
Commons the unseemly abuse and unwarranted accusations
which he has previously read in columns as spiteful and pre-
judiced as his own unhappy, vexed, and restless spirit. But
it has escaped them both, or they wilfully mis-state tte
facts of the case, and knowingly attempt to mislead the
public judgment. "The grant of 16,000,0001. to the lines
of one province," says our Contemporary, " would help to
depreciate the rest." What grant? None is spoken of.
" Government is," he continues, " to restore confidence, lend
money, finish railways, change discount into premium, fill
the pockets of the shareholders, and perform all those other
wonders which Harlequin is expected to do on the stage, and
a Minister in the Emerald Isle." Government is expected
to do no such things. It is asked neither to lend money nor
to finish railways. The people, by universal acknowledg-
ment, are starving. A vast proportion of the labouring
classes arc at the present moment employed on works that
have been pronounced worse than useless, answering at the
best "no other purpose than that of obstructing the
public communication ; ' the population look to the State
for some provision for the future—some permanent and set-
tled mode of earning a livelihood apart from the miserable and
insufficient methods of the past. They all but implore to be
taken from their wretched potato fields, and to be distributed
over profitable and generally remunerating works ; and on
their behalf the credit, and nothing more, of the Government
is demanded by the Noble Lord, who, guided by the wisdom
and experience of the most practical and successful men of
the age, prefers the accomplishment of railways to the re-
claiming of bogs, useful industry to unprofitable scheming.
"The Noble Lord," said Mr. Roebuck, " proposes that this
country should employ 16,000,0001. in a sort of speculation
of making railroads in Ireland. He did not ask the rich to
come forward, but he asked the Noble Lord at the head of
the Government to tax the people of England, in order that
he might apply their capital to the construction of railroads
in Ireland. Already a sum of 11,500,000/. had been called
for from the people of England. To that the Noble Lord
the Member for Lynn proposed to add 16,000,000/. more."
The coolness and effrontery of these mis-statements require
no comment. By the side of the clear mad unmistake-
ablel
oopfeanocnise fail
est
poiaaot,
uerhieartxer,xooaesde nsushldpaenetyoectsci
wfrtioeeeoanthmnfthecdeetveentihnethokan:
the
enhieno.
annoegf
dpgetdpfiuhNl
feeling
beemgohl
le
Opposition
Nieen:Naotgoz,
rnboalaanlli
oenf tnnjdchsiMember.ooetotuiauhpttunlhee.udc,de
itr o
sufferingefor
c iI
t,
ey rti
fellow-sub-
jects theyl
oN,wr a t s
uiv
bi
of
one
shdnlrei:(ls)Toltthhhhi aasistz
ddidecidedleewtt.ecarr)nt,
detr
ermination
tt
Bill."op-
pose
to oppose its introduction altogether.seti
fiwl
Lordships'ales drebl u Leei lwtaol:ndoatttith;eeascwt:sh,lilils-1
induceoppone
na t second cm% n
With
h regard
er relaxation.ar d
t 0 isa beneathlreland
dall
p a hisnew
_ Loosridusol o
hasto
r e b etchaeu se
progress
orGyobNo.yeprpini
Government
politicalethat
rceased.etuse a It g iseo notgood
mto e impedemeasure
Lord George Bentinck- interferes to-day, but to help
The English community are interested in the futureion.
pros-
perity of their Irish brethren. No Member of Parliament
fulfils his duty to his constituency unless, at the present try-
ing moment, to the best of his ability he seeks to prevent a
recurrence of the calamities which now weigh upon the in-
dustry of the humble labourers of the country, and yet are
borne with truest sympathy and self-denial. The measures
suggested by Lord George Bentinck not only repair the
affliction and remove the burden, but they propose advan-
tages to England otherwise unattainable. Lord John Rus-
sell, as we conceive from his Lordship's speech, would be
better disposed to listen to such measures if they did not
jar with his previous theories and conceits. The shade of
political economy haunts the Prime Minister like a curse.
It was with him during the recess—it accompanies him to the
Ministerial bench. A month or two ago it would not suffer
him to feed the famished people. To-day it will permit him
to do nothing else. When we urged his Lordship to save the
dying hundreds, and published for his edification and support
the accounts that daily came to us of fearful deaths and me-
lancholy inquests, the ear was turned from humanity to
science. Depots were closed, and the principles of trade and
commerce held more sacred than the lives of men. Now,
when we have time to look about US—now, when Parliament
has met, and it is the duty of that Parliament not only to
give food, but to take stops against the return of famine, and
to give activity to the desponding, labour to the disheartened,
hope to the despairing, energy and self• respect to the idle,
political economy alters her tone and bids his Lordship be
humane and say, that " the only want is the want of food,
and that the application of money for railway purposes
is not calculated to supply it." Where political economy
should be tender, she is a stoic ; where she should be
up and active, she is merely drivelling. It is the fate
of all theories that are antagonistic to the laws of
God and nature to be thus inconsistent and con-
temptible. We hope that we have shown ourselves at least
as sensible as his Lordship of the urgent necessity of furnish-
ing the starving population with food for their immediate
benefit,
l establishmente lp. NaS'ne d are,
hopesohowever,
railroads
sreoea
tebrtihtsdneaeeti
lfil
trust
lrtri
fns,
,00nonu.joaieaRrotsrtnimdhntehIstcpyser.hee.ttrpetee3idoeihpslloraniaetoonaartescanrmse:d.smibed:pveclistaLbisiCarohess,tieooni
nyissniorltrlue(logefl,cmseiurdwfftcLeoltheis,leGihrrooinnieluerle.desbudneGtiseoseruhsrsroyjf:aogohvot of the pro-
priety of legislating at once for the general improvement of
e
is
to
s
the people. We can conceive no method of absorbing the
enormous mass of surplus labour speedily and efficaciously
better adapted to the exigencies of the case than the railway
schemewN,Tti,ieihoels
ineetl
m,experienceaand
evidencese nntothti faotLthethfa.oeoecnfraladoc)l
spidefaiiiGovrrttwefl.ahieiselhtaoeehbtmeri
ecgaeoabpehbnefelhnbasitßentinck. Railways have been re-
commended by the report of Lord Devon. Lord John Russell
himself " agrees with the Noble Lord in thinking that the
otdtfehhroheehecmeprnauanrioizpmiltrauesamalotnnnin:rsiametodoitddetilnrs:nil,sNit:,,)•bele:a.tln)::;:i.
eiesyffeienrry
fiaerxdisbit:
w iwill over-
whelmed
pereesw,
persevere
eh
withfaets.the""B7
path
11,1 ansf mI r
adhe
itmh ep
rbeovl
edtne set
n,
tb. u t
Ithhi s
fbaeestta satne
dp
nyiest
ataken
es nh t tar ee
, alike irresistible. Ireland will be grateful to his Lordship for
his industry and zeal—his party and his country may justly
be proud of his ability and talents.--herald.
es

TESTINRYNIAL MANIA. Every body now-a-days
peacefulliT ell Wallington, ghteorne,
oi
fn
a bronze,
world
timt
i s
ridingg i giving ntgh
eev
highery bo
horseely ;a
Cobden,tes
railway monarch, whose
falrt
oma
tabya, 1 however,a
nee t
—notmotto amcioguhnttbrye? a
"Wallandlhduliessonsintehe
re
t be named whose
be confidently predicted that one might
exertions in alleviating human sufferings
just and willingly rendered claims of those i
above enumerated. This will at once be
whose names are
call to mind the almost incalculable amounteapparent, when we
torture relieved by Blair's Gout and Rheumatic
of agoni.ing
proprietor may be said already to have eared
d a Pills,
whose
n imperish-
able
monument on the gratitude of thousands.
Boz's LAST WoRIC.--1t must be a matter of sur-
prise to the public generally to perceive how varied are the
Mr. expressed by the leading newspapers, with r
to Mr. Dickens's last publication. It may well be imagined
that some adverse criticisms upon the works of this and gotaheer
celebrated authors may proceed from personal feelings or
educational prejudices. These, however, could account for
but a few. The majority, as we have the best medical au-
thority for stating, may be ascribed to irritability of temper,
generally arising from aderanged state of the liver and other
viscera, and which could easily be remedied by the occasional
use of Frampton's Pill of Health, which is gentle in its
oper:s!.ion, and unfailing in its effect.
The British Ineitution will open on Monday with
only a middling disolaY, the top men being absent. There
is no Landseer, no Stanfield: indeed, if we are correctly .-
formed, there is no one work sufficiently prominent to tike
a visitor there a second ante. We shall be able to say more
next weak,-7710 PgiicAll'i