The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-25 00:00:00

EVENING ED ITION

Lions, and that great subdivision of laerd I ad teen the oc-
casion of almost all the evils of Ireland. That system bed
now been almost entirely aboliahei ; they had, at the cost
of great suffering to the people, almost completed the
state of transition to a better orler of thirge and now
they were to be thrown back upon all the evils of the for-
mer system. The Act constituting the 40s. freeholder;
had been passed by the Irish Perliament
1793 ; and he would read from the second Re" ,
port of the Railway Commissioners an extract, show
teas
irg
the effect which that law had produced. That Report
signed by the late Mr. Drummond. He need not stop to ,
eulogise that gentleman now far the excellent and effiCiellt
manner in which ho discharged his duty as a RailwaY
Commissioner. He dellrel from him on many Piet,
more particularly as to the policy which he bad
in conjunction with Lord Mulgrave ; but lie could not
withhold from him his meed of approbation for the con-
scientious discherge of what he believed is be I is
—(Cheers.) That Report stated that the population
Ireland, in 1791, amounted to 4,206,612 ;in 1821, t° :
6,801,827 •; in 1831, to 7,767,201 •; and, in 1338, at the :
late of the Report, to eight millions and a half. Thii
increase of population had been entirely owing to the
pursue
subdivision of lands occasioned by the Act of 1793, ard
the dreadfully distressed state of tt e unfortunate agricul-
tural population was most fecliegly depicted. The
landlords dreaded a return to that system, and it was not
only on political grounds that they were opposed to the
measure of the Governmeat, but as having a tenecacy le
reproduce the subdivision of lard. The Railroad Com;
missioner had said it was necessary for the public good
that the pauper tenantry should be changed into indeten'
dent labourers. That change had been taking Place
during the last ten years, but the measure of the Noble Lord
would throw them all back into their former destitute condi-
tion. He would earnestly call upon those Members who bad
the welfare of Ireland at heart to pause and seriously consider
whether they were prepared is cut up by the root all the
good which had been gradually done since 1829. Were °Lc/
prepared to throw all again into utter confusion by agt slit
to pass the Bill of the Government? In his opinion there
were many reasons to justify a much smaller constitael
in Ireland than in a wealthy country like England. Wba
fell from the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin d
1837 ? Upon a discussion on the Poor-law Bill, he said
that in 1836 the destitution in Ireland far exceeded all the
calculations of the Commissioners. There were 585,000 •
heads of families in a state of destitution during the d greateef
portion of 1836. He computed them to be at the hea ° •
three millions of population, two-thirds of them destitute
during the best part of the }ear, and one-third during the
whole year. Now surely they were not going to give theen
franchise to the pauper population. Three millions th
had to be deducted from the eight millions when they en,onle:
pared the number of electors to the population. 11-
Government had, in his (Orem, totally failed I*
showing any necessity for such a violent eitars
in the franchise. But suppose for a moment tl--
they had ma le out a case, where had they shown
i,a
basis upon which to rest it. The information they "30
given to the blouse clearly showed that the rating Ole
which it was proposed to rest the franchise was Ina%
directly at variance with the enactments of the Poor-law
Act. They proposed also to extend the 5/ franchise_ s
boroughs, yet they had not presented one single report?
any inquiry into any city or town. Now, why was the
They could only draw inferences. He would state whag
came to his knowledge respecting Cork. lie had a rei
turn of the valuations of that city. In the lowest pill
Cork, in Dublin-street, be had the return of twenty-Oh
houses rated at 5/., fur the purposes of local taxation 02t
the Poor-rate; three of them were valued at 71.! fiv °ad,
81., eight at 91., sevea at 101., and one at 111 ,s,! f
The result proved that in the various classes of houses ° •
which he had obtained returns, the valuation for local Ite,nr.
poses exceeded that under the Poor-law valuation leYisr°t-e
10 to 150 psr cent Now, there was another Pon' J.
which he wished to call the attention cf the Noble l'etre
He had received a letter from Mr. Philip Reeve, a ge°V;
man formerly at the bar, but who was now living °n ale
property in the county of Clare, and who was intimate
an 'el he
acquainted with the circumstance's of the country, pat
stated it to be his deliberate conviction, that if the Press 0
measure was carried, it would confer the franchise aPile
20,000 voters in that country alone.—( Hear, bear.)
submitted to the House that it was an exceedingly let,
litic thing to increase the constituency to the extent
the Noble Lord's (Lord Morpeth's) Bill proposed to 1P;oe
It would be a totally unmanageable business if the restos
Ireland would have a constituency in the same prodpertibis
as it appeared the county Clare would have uner serf,
Bill. If the county Clare were to have 20,000 vo..
how many would the county Cork have? Why, talt2
its great extent and population into consideration, it W°,700
have no fewer than 100,000 voters. The great objdeslo.,
against such an enormous increase was, that it would are.
ment an influence which was too powerful for Irclan
the
too powerful for the
cyclerinteeq of the country—he Oefau„tes
influence of the Cathol gy ire that country. 't - ictb
was intended to invest the Catle lie clergy as a body
election influence. To be cure they had a right to vote
at.
well as ()Veer individuals; but their influence as a b 0 00s,
elections was, he contended, too great ; it was clang- ss
and such was the opinion of the Duke of Wellingtordeev.
pressed at the time of the abolition of the 40s. freaholco
The 40s. freeholders were abolished, because theY
risers,w
net that intelligent, independent class 01 it
who ought to possess the franchise ; and *°-beo
was proposed to give the prisi'ege of the fran-gOrla
to a similar class of men ; for he insisted that the Pefr the
registered uncier a 51. qualefication were virtually °id he
same class as the 4es. freeholders. Now what 10° who
the consequences of giving the franchise to such nee°' en
were completely under the influence cf their ,
the ono lido, and of tl:e priests on the other? be "-e°e%
Gentleman the Member for Cavan, in the excellent sPct-ea
which he made last night, and which met the aePrtie-ler
of all parties, said he would not give even to the clereessed
the Established Church the same power that was poste",oe)
by the Catholic priests in Ireland, who he (Mr. -rite"- the
would say did not give the same pledges of security
State as the Protestant clergy. The } rierts ever° snitf
men—( Laughter)— and bad no stake in the consideeeces-
not so the Protestant clergy ; they were like otherd-oho•
hers of society. He thought that as individuals else body
lie clergy ougirt to possess some right, but as ,*„ fe-
they ought not to have the power ellich 'SS'ette)
geetted to say was in their handa.—( Hear, hear, Pooffl
The actual majc rity possessed by the Government ensee
was but eleven or twesve, and it was not the reprettmeee
thee of England who kept that Government in °soma
but some thirty-four Members returned by Irish eenr-teet
encies. The people of Ireland, in fact, at the P,f4ear,
moment controlled] the people of Englando Ole
hear.) He objected to this Bill, because it disturl,lp the
set:lemant of 1829. There was a growing fcclirg
oeuntry to disturb that settlement, and he regretted Itjoing
called upon the House not to furnish arguments forf that
so. He objected also to the argumee; made use 0 doe
it was necessary to grant this measure, because it scat°t lead
genius to excite discontents in Ireland, which mig" meet
to the severance of the two countfes. This erg ilOOO,
was is() much like that employed elsewhere by tr „reset
and Learned Member for Dublin, and he (Mr. °e,creeol°
Jackson) was astonished to hear such an argUrnOL abC
the lips of the Right Hon. Secretary at War. 11a T; ear
t a dangerous argument, and one which should net be oiler
ployed in that House by any person, and still less
of her Majesty's Ministerr.—(llear, hear ) Oleg'
Mr. SL AN N EY, in rising to support the second re the
expresacd his regret that the moderation with wi
jitoecogivegoalle..
discussion bad been carried on by many gcntlernen4,efs,
sides was not observed by all who spokes— it°
He thought the Hon. Member ler Cavan on the 01Wbeds
(the Tory) side, and the Hon. Member for
near him, deserved the thanks of the House for th gear,
nor in which they had treated the question and leis.
hear.) All were agreed that a most vexatious ee oftho
chievous uncertainty existed as to the interpretatioe lose
qualification clause in the existing las ; and as °Oo,osed
for removing the ambiguity seemed possible to be psi3O,o
except that upon which this Bill was devised, Wilke me'
they refuse to go into Committee, prepared te o%olo'
tual concessions, and to settle the amount of Oct:lm the.l
cation upon conditions satisfactory to all ? lie tbogi her
et franchise war too Hear, Lea's) „I. was
Majesty's Ministers affirmed that the rating at j• Coir
test of 101. value, and he was wiping to bear °nodes
mitten the grounds on which that assertion wa* iefijele
He did not think that the statements made by thevar ect'
Lord the Secretary for Ireland were sufficient te bade We'
all the details of the measure. But the principle t ote.•
fully made out, and for that alone he was prepared ci°to the
was of the highest importance to Ireland, it never
empire,lt that this question should be settled, and
er With-
could be settled in a peaceable and effective maralloorateite
out mutual concessions, which could be made i ra'
tee He believed that there were prudential ca.
of this
tions at present which pressed for tie settleteeln le ore
que tion.—( Hear.) He, therefore, api ealcd dc-
Gentlemen opposite to go into the Commioce sevi°,:;"oo as
termination to yield something of their own ;wee, *
to procure, by a sacrifice of feelings upon beta e,u,esue
permanent adjustment of the irritating and most law i°
disputes which the present state of the electoral
Ireland kept tip in the House and in Ireland. , his 11°°'
Mr. THESIGER felt that the speech 0' Wee
Friend the Member for Shropshire had left th.ceridood
in some difficulty. In the beginning his Flom F_r; be
that his object was to suggest a middle course, a9"_ peers
eluded by saying that no middle course could :et, NO
but that the principle of the Bill must be acieele ee.Torgi
the principle of the Bill was what they on that thewt`' ee
side cf the House decidedly objected to. From it was 011;
of the Noble Nord opposite ( Lord Morpc.th? tb
dent that the Si. franchise was really the prine,yleo ocees
Noble Lord intimated that if that part 01
Hear,t eeler'
lost, he would abandon the whale measure. --a set
His Hon. and Learned Friend, the Member fi„r eared g°
touched last night upon an objection whiebeel,foiyer it;
him (Mr. Thesiger) of very great and e 0", regard f
portance. He stated that this measure, 1
h l'stttleraellut °I.
the alteration of the franchise, .affected tee se od
the great question on which that most saluta_ry,iii, as.a?
ing measure, the Roman Catholic Kell
_Ptiato with
founded, and violated the pledge given at tllvrece awace
respect to the franchise. Hon. Members
~istsd
that at thae4toiT.efrteheaht
freehold
dill 'cwoansstiintturcortsyc,edcoirthpe;:.eegoutenpeecrs
Lena
in the exercise of the elective franchise; a . prei."
'l3lll, °P re-
sons likely to be, to a very considt rabic extettit,,laet at the
time it was proposed to introduce that _ might
sions were entertained that very great clang:
ere might
,Unla
suit from the measure, if that constituency lit he ee
touched, and that very greet temptations reibeese therer:
It Ilaus,
, out to fraud in the multiplication of voters•
tied, unless it were accompanied by the „ be-teem
,
fore been determined that that measure
many aeons
I 40s. freeholders in counties ; and Le e
ort,Reamo tee.
its 13(!rnge,ioll
twoerethiendumeeedasutoregifvoer thichier rerleulcietfautosfupgric
tholics in Ireland, in consequersco
foe;
the °"- 'area
companied by tl e enactment
consideredh the
time, a constituency which it was Althou
above all undue and improper freeholdsinfluoesnee
be
rs ye!
of the 405. freeholders, and of its creatir,lt the
Bill for the annibPation of the 4h„and, Do
time,
the House before the Roman ,Cat oli le
t the me
eskieseri
undoubtedly
°°evei
sheoeutlindenti°otr, uo'f
bet:bre,
as part of the same measure. 'Kb
n theAtpwroi BliBll3s
9r: c
ae invde d t thheey Rwoeyrael sseonti 0
freehold