The Sun.
London, England, 1841-03-23 00:00:00

Mr. FIELDEN then :moved that the clauses-
-
out, and
Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and the aumloA
were—
For the motion
49
For the amendment
Majority
The House then resumed, and the Chairman repo'
rogress, and obtained leave to sit again.
ORDNANCE SURVEY BILL. tos
On going into Committee on this Bill, in answer
question from Sir R. PEEL.
Sir HUSSEY VIVIAN said after the sit northereis
counties were finished, it was proposed to adopt bash
counties
scale for the rest of the kingdom, which he was
suaded would be of great advantage, to enable them at
future time to lay down improvements for the country:,,
Sir ROBERT PEEL did not contest the utility .17,4
plan, but doubted how fir it could be adopted with
Sir HUSSEY VIVIAN said that next Year Abe r
Webid
survey would be completed, and then they would "" sur-
to proceed more rapidly in England. He intended to
re,
vey the counties which had not been surveyed I-ere
surveying the others.
S:r THOMAS A CLAND hoped the work 00 the
larger
ginal scale would be completed, as well as on the
scale: dig'
Sir HUSSEY VIVIAN said there would be a,
t-
-1
culty about it whatever; the map of Ireland 501 gu
published on two scales. mead
The further consideration of the Bill was then PCifiwr
to Thursday.
The Houghing Cattle Bill was read a second time...di
The Copyholct and Customary Tenure Bill was r`..
second time.
Mr. PIGOT obtained leave to bring in a Bill t°c°l3--P9i
lidate the Collection of Taxes in the City
also to bring in a Bill to extend to the County of Dams, ill
and the County of the City of Dublin, the lava 11" Ire'
'n
force in the other
Counties and Counties of Cities rod
land, relating to the presentment of public money bf g
juries.
d
The other Orders of the Day were then dioPtek.
and the House adjourned at Half-past Twelve o'Ciu-
of Dubliillit

emergency, medical relief might be ordered by Magis-
trates, without waiting for boards of guardians, or by the
relieving officer. There never had been the same means
of furnishing relief under the old law. There was now a
system of furnishing medical relief ; under the old law
there was none. The proper way to discuss the Bill was
by comparing the old law with the new one. Then,
again, it had been stated that all out-door relief
was refused ; and a great deal bad been said
of the hardship of forcing families into the workhouse.
Now, the fact was, that four.fifths of all the relief now
given was really outdoor relief. If Hon. Gentlemen
wished for more, they had better abolish workhouses alto-
gether. It had been stated that no out-door relief was
granted. Now, what was the fact ? At the present mo-
ment the number of paupers receiving in-door relief was
126,519, and the number receiving out-door relief was
818,613 ; so that the greater part were receiving out-doer
relief. Hon. Members, who had expressed their disap-
probation of the Poor-law Bill, had adverted to some im-
proved system ; but they bad net stated what that system
was, or how it was to be continued, without some super-
intending control. Under the old Poor-law some pa-
rishes had exhibited an enlightened system of manage-
ment, but their example had not been followed ; and
there had been nothing to ensure the uninterrupted conti-
nuance of such enlightened system of management, for if the
person entrusted es ith the management of the poor happened
to die, the parish relapsed into the old system of misma.
nagement. Superintendence was the only thing to give
stability to any plan.—( Hear, hear.) He defended the
Commission on popular principles.—(Cheers.) It was
the only way in which a sufficient control could be exer-
cised over the administration of five or six millions of
money. If the Hon. Member for Finsbury would read
the accounts of the old workhouses, and visit the union
workhouses, ho would be struck with the favourable con-
trast presented by the latter.—(Cheers.) Whether the
question was a popular one or not, was a matter with
which he had nothing to do.—(Cheers.) He never bad
held, and he never would hold, a seat in that House upon
any such tenure.—( Loud cheers.) If he held the ques-
tion to be right on principle, he hoped and trusted that as
long as he held a seat in that House he should pursue his
own independent course, not that he believed that on this
occasion he had any thing to fear in making this declara-
tion, for he thought that the great mass out of doors
were possessed of greater intelligence than the opponents
of the Bill gave them credit for, and would not be misled
by the sweeping imputations which had been cast upon
the supporters of this measure. He was perfectly willing
to share with the Noble Lord the Member fur Northum-
berland, and his Hon. Friend the Member for the City of
London, any unpopularity which might be the conse-
quence of supporting a measure which he verily believed
had conferred larger blessings on the poor and a ccasioned
greater stability to the property of the country than had
ever been brought forward.—( Cheers. )
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE entreated the House to pause
before they gave one day longer continuance to the Com-
missioners. The Hon. Gentleman had defended them on
popular grounds. He (Mr. T. D.) attacked them on
popular grounds, on grounds most dear to the people of
this country, the right to self-government and to the
right of control over the expenditure of their own money.
—(Loud cheers.) These were really popular grounds,
and so they would be proved to be whenever gentlemen
should venture to go to another general election.—( Loud
cheers.) Neither the Hon. Member for London nor the
Hon. Member for Lambeth had brought forward any ar-
gument for continuing the Commission five years. All
their arguments went to show that it should be continued
in perpetuity, and they ought to bare proposed that as an
amendment to the Noble Lord's proposition. The
Poor-law Commissioners themselves had recommended
it in their Reports, and he thought Honourable
Gentlemen had scarcely done them justice. In their
Report they stated in the most modest and unas-
suming way, that Parliameot was too much engaged with
other matters that it had not time to attend to the details
of parochial legislation. It would al p ear from that as if
Parliament did not think the people worth attending to
(Oh, oh.) That they were so engrossed with the affairs
of the East, and of France, and America, that they could
not attend to the wants of twelve or thirteen thousand
parishes, and the welfare and comforts of millions of the
labouring classes. They went on to state that it was im-
portant that there should be some body between the Par-
liament and the people to issue orders in a legislative
form ; so that they were to have a kind of fourth estate
to I,gislate for the people, which did not appear to hint to
be very complimentary to Parliament. They observed
further, that the style adopted in Acts of Parliament ren-
dered them hardly intelligible to persons who bad not re-
ceived a legal education ; and hence it was necessary
that some competent authority should be appointed to
expound the intentions of the Legislature.—( A laugh.)
It did not appear, however, that these gentlemen were
very explicit in their own accounts and orders. Some of
the clauses were such as to bear one construction to-day
and another to-morrow. But if such an authority was
necessary in the Poor-law Bill, why should they not have
a similar one with regard to the Municipal Bill ? Why
were there not three Lord Mayors sitting at Somerset-
house, or a dozen itinerant Aldermen going through the
country to expound the law ?—( A laugh.) He believed
the Poor-law would act much more satisfactorily without
the present Central Board. The Hon. Member for Last-
both had asked what would be substituted, and his answer
was, Leave it to tho good sense and discretion of the
Boards of Guardians. Was it to be said that Hon.
Members such as had addressed the House that night, and
who had avowed themselves members of Boards of Guar-
dians—was it to be supposed that they were such idiots as
not to know how to expound the law, and that it was ne.
cessary for them to have Assistant-Commissioners tied to
their tails ?—( Hear, and laughter.) He believed that it
was the intention of the gentlemen and farmers of Eng-
land to administer the law carefully and fairly if they
were only left to themselves. The Hon. Member for THE FRENCH STAGE AND THE 1//0
,010
Lambeth found fault with his Hon. Colleague, Mr.
e5*0.....-. a Wakley, for calling the workhouses places of torture. PEOPLE, EDITED By THEODORE tIooK, .-...titiett To'
Why, they were nothing else, and in addition to the in- requested to state, that the *new •woels editse" aby A tbo
French Stage and the Frerech peo
stances that had already been repeated, he would give ple," blisbe" oi
dore Hook, Esq., in twe
thern a case from Yorkshire, in which Thomas Stevenson,
a mesterei the workhouse, was charged by Sarah Price with day by Mr. Colbure,, of Great Marlborougueolber:re
vols. small Bvo., is I:.ll.9treet, 01
assaulting and ill using her; he was fined 20g. by the Magis- may now be 11571 e of all booksellers. Mr' of ° lie*
traces,
who, in pronouncing their judgment, stated that they also just
could not refrain from pronouncing their opinion that the the, F-ourth, by the Rev. George Croly, 5_ k eiitb°osll
P"..t,tished-1. The Personal Histoorcyond olio e
defendant had not conducted himself in such a manner as - vols. small Bvo., 21s. bound.-2. The 13°0 is., 9Of
. 2vo -.doge.
he ought to have done ; they thought he ought not to Name, by Sir Charles and Lady Morgan , t the tdrojiso
have visited the female rooms after they had retired to Bvo.-3. Swinburne's " Courts of Europe at in jo es"
rest ; nor should he have used the indelicate threat of
the Magistrates
taking the pauper down to the cell naked as she was, Hon. the Last Century ;" 2 vols., Bvo.-4. Society I,nots„
by an Indian Officer ; 2 vole., post Bvo.---5- Lebo; `,3 Ise
Members might think nothing of that, and Letters of Beethoven, edited by Ignane Motierw.nd, 6. . se
added that he bad not exercised a smiled discretion small Bvo , with portrait, &e., 21s. bound;
r'a, SS"
in beating infants, and more particularly the infant at the Granville's " Spas of England," I vol., with
of'
breast of the complainant, as he had frequently done. illustrations, 15s. bound. -f,4, 00
Let any Hon. Member read that, and say that the work- 39, ALBEMARLE-STREET, PICCAP 10,1i0%
houses were not places of torture.—( Hear, bear.) Was POSITII Tax YORK HOTEL, AN) 76, KING WILLIA3OII7II29O'ori
it any satisfaction to the poor woman or her friends to be OF ENGLAND.—Deafnesi, and those who are slightlr i 1 0,11 et,
told that the master was fined 20s. ? He did not think and find a difficulty to catch the sound of a dfist'satAl:ol; 0110,1
that under the old system anything half so bad, or so op- at a public assembly, will find a most astonit'oing
.onted let
pressive, had been inflicted. He disapproved of the power tit* use of the Messrs. S. and B. Solomons' nerdy-2"w tee c":0101'
conferred on the Commissioners, because it was arbitrary ble Operative Voice Conductor, which, when Q. zed !en „or 0 010'
and despotic, and of little use. Look at the case that bad the ear is so small as not to be the leapt perceptible, tell.
been stated by the Hon. Member for Bridgewater. It ap- comfortable than having apiece of wr,ol is its pltacee•begisitspifi.,
peered that dysentery prevailed in the workhouse, and the ordinaryacateba andt thevaeatursabalreeisiammenatciohat,ranecaymedityf domeuthebir u,e, ttll3l oft;
guardians wished to give the paupers rice instead of gruel. duals in a great number ofinstan-cePsrcan hear most distingo 5P,...1 ,Si
They wrote to the Commissioners in October, and re- them. It will therefore be seen that persons do not Inca tlio?"
ceived no answer until April, and the result was that fifty start habit of being compelled at all times to make
°l6 rat TO;
of the unfortunate poople lost their lives. He believed in consequence et the numerous indlir'iduals having "et; 00,00
the law would work well without the Commissioners. relieved from deafness, they have become In gees'', I,ol' ill:
Messrs. Solomon,' Newly.inverited Spectacle Len
..° by or 010
He wished, at all events, to see the experiment tried, and
they are placed before impee.ect eyesight, either le seit e
so far as his vote went it would go to discontinue s.o ex-
pensive, arbitrary, and despotic a system. light, every object become', clear and distinct, and the it'd
particle is seen with exact ' „dual) irtf el
Mr. DARBY doubted very much whether the real opt- meets in the material
are secrets to themselves, and 0 P',oo,
nion of the House could be taken upon the question now fined to their Estal-,iishments, 311, Albemarle-street, i'd oe
before it, as to the time during which the Commissioners William.street, distinctness. Their A are oo
-Bank. No connection with 0°101'
were to be continued. He was anxious, by shortening the name. oh
time for the continuance of the Poor-law Commissioners
-----e'-'-'
a ov
in office, to give Parliament a control over the very ex- S.TE-EL FIRE-IRONS, with Bronze t, of vie
tensive powers they at present possessed. „ara s ise *
I' es. per Set, Bronzed Fenders, es. 1". welt }sr_aoe'
Mr. HAMILTON was in favour of limiting the powers terns and prices, from the above to 305., id ''' croll' or
of the Commissioners to a very short period. He thous ht fenders are particularly handsome, with splendid sod tbsoslt
two years quite long enough. He was as unwilling es any richly intermixed with steel, the ends are steekot go' 0
other Member to return to the evils of the old system, but porters for the fire-irons bronzed. Polished st
he was convinced that men would rather starve out of the from 45,, per set. art'is
workhouses then pine away in them with their families.
Sir G. STRICKLAND thought that before the term i
FuCna,__A Or"
+.l. . . asphl
poi
ng nog
Ne s
an d gratin,
Ironmongery.
BURTON, w theel i graces Wells-street,
t r
re 4 o fo wrenrerul,
_.s.
required for the continuance of the Poor-law Commission,
the Commissioners would have done all the good that was ____ Established 1820.
ese_____--- 94j
expected of them.
BIRTHS. walker,
Mr. VILLIERS defended the Bill before the to
On the 4th inst., at Rome, the lady of J. 0.
fie,
House against the attacks which had been made upon it, of Hopehill, Aberdeen, of a son and heir. nri-gle
especially by the Members fur Finsbury. On the 14th inst., in Artillery-place, Finsbeter• rstreer
Mr. W. ATTWOOD said the advocates of the Bill wife of Mr. J. Ireland, surgeon, &c., of a daug .csq.,
of
On the 17th inst„ the wife of E. W. Cooke, '' 101/
were obliged to thrust in all the worst evils of the old sys..
~, . the ~
t , S e of a daughter.
tern, iii order to justify that which was under tonsideration. Oancethe ulrBrthyinst at Hungerford-parke Ber'-' law
~
the
—( Hear, hear.) The point of economy had been entirely George Willis, Esq., of a son. ire,
given up, and they now rested their defence entirely upon On the 19th inst., at Ham-court, Wareestersb d of 6
the abuses which had occurred under the old plan. He of Henry Shirley, Esq., of a daughter. a Giff°r ',,
was for restricting the powers of the Commissioners to a On the 19th inst., the lady of the fee'.'. J. --* Ibo'r"
i , 110
shorter period, that the House might have the opportunity daughter.
of frequent revision. On the 20th inst., Mrs. J. G. L.eviis, EIY-Plac-' or
Mr. HUTTON supported the clause. of a daughter.
Mr. B. WOOD spoke in favour of the amendment. On the 21st inst., in Prince's,street, the lady of G.
Esq., of a daughter.
Mr. MUNTZ had heard no sufficient reason for ex-
—__-_
ill ol
tending the powers. One of the reasons given was the Ma rai/ED• , Mr- oc°
excitement which would be caused by fixing a shorter On the 18th inst., at S'
period. That was an argument which should equally in- Morris, of Wilton Cotta' e, Tulse-hill, to Ore!! ,
...ficm.
duce them to vote the supplies for the same period. Until daughter of James lila' Bristo_ 'mac, .
cket, Esq., of Brixton-rose' oveeP 401
he heard some better reason for continuing the Commis- On the 19th inst
sion he would be quite at a loss to know how he should vote. Georgiana, young,
stdaughter of C. H. Tath!teeler,
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the of Trinity Hosp,' ,Matthew's,
at St. Alphage's
(al, Greenwich, to Edwin 'ffi` gel'',
C. C. College R. e( t
House divided, when there appeared—
Cambriage.
the-the TYr°ll sr"'
On the 'zi^ .
For the amendment - Ah inst., at St. Magnus- „s_., 0 Ae
younger ;..on of the late L. Mathewson, rs gyingearY "
Against it
174 Jane, 0,,
and daughter of J. E. Saunders, Esq., ' f*
Majority -
re,
On our admission we found
D I E D. or -Ws
t Grosven
01).
Mr. H. II INDE on his legs, moving that the power ',,f I On the 18th inst., in Chapel-stree ;
e. ei' ate/
the Commissioners should be confined to the completion zabet, 1, Countess of Westmeath, aged 7o
ton, Mrs' sge
southatnP Esse .
of unions, and that the Committee should define tl,e rul, On the 28th of February, at Gll 2e• ii,
ah • d oe• s .
2 On the 7th inst., at Gottenburt, ~
upon which they were to act.
kills, armed
Rev -* aln
Ort 9th inst., at Milan, Mr. W. SIMI, A, Rev f Dor
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL did -not believe, that On the loth inst., at Torquay, Chureliqr,
Devon, _
.., 0
1,
the Hon. Member was serious, for if I--1
late j
carried it would bind a future Parliament 4%9', its conduct Demi, near Doncaster,. aged ~9•
relict of the , 0.
..
ht, no ge
respecting the power of the Poor-law Cele- . t eel the 16th inst., 24 Calais, Sophteiad,
"'s "neer sment was Gre&nam, M. A , elest son of T. Gresham, 12''q ~ e
nissioners. States in the tio• Mr. H. I-I IN D E certainly did rioe se
- can to divide the Sou ef, jun., Vice-Consul of the
Isle of Wigel‘lsies
Committee after what had taket‘ On the 16th inst., at Blliiintrileay,
% and one of 11
or 4
-,,tace ; but he would
much prefer to see the preF•itkt% resill put upon the same the county of Hants.
late ,lias
_.501;
footing as the Bank Reirteeiese.
Act—to last for one year Justice sof the Peace for
Jam Le s Worsley, Vicar of
to for D!
G•
d Moristra e,‘
and no long, r,
nant an e ewe. , e
Arnaud, Esq., a Deputy-Lieute
t Portmao"4 a 54. C,
Lord El Co WICK de: ..t
e/ed that any promise was held outl7th inst., in Orchard-stree , , age off.
that the Commis,:,on would only be continued for five on. thetdaui
I ter of. the late J. Turton, ee,ostit'.ess son
you tnges g
1 th • cit William Blundstone,) Ns
r.6'
°4474., it v"`- always understood they would be a !it Portsmouth, Frances, relict a the '-' p
erring- On the 8 in. ,
1 lin nichaYleaf
110nt ‘Amr:,N9ioO.
in Bedford' square, Sir -°„einnson solt
Col,-.,rioi SIBT. HORP should cert ,inly do all in his On. the 19th inst.,
tices of the Court of ,-;ton, Jo
Pr-fic?-x to turn out the Commissioners, notwithstandir g :Knight, late one of the jua
st
Colebrook-row, 151 e- 101.1'
t.,
ark, cl,
like the Government, they had adopted the lucky numb-6'; On the 191 h
_irtinseimt_
lane.
Regent's-P irelr.o five.—( A laugh.) He should take the sense of the House :Others, Esq., of. I"
t 'Litchfield-terrace, ,
upon a motion for reducing the salaries of the Commis- On the 12th inst., a
Emma Ireland,
of Hatton-ear. on.
r W. -
lel' t inners to 1,0004 per annum, and the salaries of the Assts- .cmget. Em,rnof Hart-street, Bloomsbury, d
ag
ond, wife 0-
r•
tent Commissioners to 300/. The travelling expenses *urOnic'tnhe 17th inst., at Putney;
,I_l_
Noosrthumberland.
ad, j.
were charged at three guineas a month, and he would move Smart, Esq.. of Trewhitt Hlousber,idge..
place, New- r°
that it be reduced to one guinea, which was a very hand- On the 18th inst., at 'ona e _
se.
• le., Esq., late of Calcutta, g dev
some allowance.
senate , eldest daughtor of
eth.ell6a.te id.
The amendment was then withdrawn, and •011 - --
Mr. FIEL DEN moved that the clause be postponed.
Mr. BERNAL said the clause could not be postponed
after th'y had begun to amend it.

THE MARKETS.

PRICE OF BREAD. fet the
The highest eof sireati I xhe Mar oolis Is 94,.
Loaf. Good Bread may be had at 734 d.

I'RICE3 OF SEEDS.
New English lteu Clover...6os SOs St. Fein .....
Per Cwt. 1
Old Ditto Ditto
—s s—s Rye Grass ........ .. ..
...„, ..7 00
New Foreign Din.to —s 55s 70s Pacey Grass . ......... "..._...1 °'P gil
01.1 Di to Ditto —s —s —sLinseeti, for feeding ......,` s 60,1.0
Pew White Clover 15s 50s Ws'Dit.o, for sowing .."'
.....110.14i
Old Ditt ) Ditto —s —s —sOtto, for crushing .... .36i ...
NOV TreOil ....
-s
" 4" Hem,' ........................
Old Ditto
—s 20s SOsCanary . ............ , 1. ,0
'Fr folium —s 4Sfi 70si Per nuoil
E.,glish Carraway s 50s sis'White Musti.rd ... 0d to I. gi
. iis 010
Foreign Ditto 3 46s 503 Brown Ditto ........ ~A
. "'
Coriander —s 14s 180 Tares ........ .... .....
PRICE OF OIL. 10
.£0 0
Rape Oil, brown, per ton .... ifi 1
Ditto, refined .............................................. 7,i 0
Linseed Oil ............... . ..................................... 'i 0
Lins ed Oil Cake at the Mill (per 1000) ............... '7 •
Per...
..Q.f.i.rn....5..., l
Rai e t ake. per to, .....,....
.. 0
PRICE OF TALLOW, SOAP, &c. per 11")....X11° 0
Town Tallow .£2 11 6 Melting Stuff ................ 14i 0
Yellow Russia
White ........... , „
... 0 0 C Graves ................... u
Soap Ditto •0
0 0 Good Drugs ........••"
..,
PRICE OF RAW FAT, per stone of 81b3' .. '..41. IP
Price of Tallow (as stated by the Tallow Melters) ...........
COAL MARKET.
Ships arrived since last market day, 41
a 1
- - - -

6
W. E.
EBnraddWdyanttier .............
....... iiss°
Walls End Haswel t 8
Walls End East Hetton,.. ig n
Wails End Larnbton ••"'O..
Walls End Pemberton l'oti f 8 6
Walls End RUSSell'6 Het
.. 0
Walls End Stewart's •••• .....
Walls End Coundon ... 18 I
Walls:End Gordon •••*" s
C°wPen ..................... ..
Howard's Netherton

—.
Adair's
Blaydon Maln l5 61
Buddle's West Hartley lB C
Carr's Hartley
Dean's Primrose l7 0
Lesze's Main . l5 0
Pontop Windsor
Smith's Pontop l6 r
West Hartley ..........
Walls Et.d Bell and Brown 21 0
Walls End Heaton 2l 01
Walls End Hotspur
Walls End Newmarch l9 6,

of
Lon don,: Printed and Published by MURDO y
gtra ouo7 is
No, 112, Strand, at The Sea Office, No. 11%
th%.county of Middlesex,—Tuesday, March 23, 1341.