The Sun.
London, England, 1841-08-25 00:00:00

funct subject, the appropriation clause, which was passed in a
Committee of the whole House on the 7th of April, 1835, and
which embodied the declaration that any surplus remaining
after providing for the wants of the Church, should be appliedr
to the education of the people. Now, if there were any mean-
t ing in those words, it was, that coming into office on the
adoption of the resolution, nothing would induce them to be a
party to the success of any measure which did not embody
them.—( Hear, hear.) Upon that resolution they had come
into office, an 1 yet they bad abandoned it, and in his opinion,
from that moment they had given up their position, and were
standing upon ground which did not properly belong to them.
Nothing, therefore, would induce him to give his full adherence
to a Government that acted in such a manner.—( Hear,
hear.) He believed that principles of liberal policy would in
the main be followed by any Government that would hereafter
take office, and therefore to had no fear on that point ; but the
question was, whether the political character of the persons
who were likely to form a Government was such as would
induce them to concede these principles with honour to them-
selves.—( Hear, hear.) On these grounds he should give his
vote in favour of the Address.
Lord MELBOURNE then rose and said—My Lords, the
nature of this motion and the circumstances under which it is
made—the arguments on which it was supported, and the
fair and candid, clear and distinct spirit—(Laughter)—in
which they were stated, are such as unquestionably do not
make it necessary for me' notwithstanding its great im-
portanee. to trouble your Lordships with many observations
•n the subject. I listened with great attention to my noble
friend who moved the amendment. I listened with great
deference to his ability, to his information, and with great
respect for his candour, and I must say, considei ing the
superstructure he was about to raise, I never knew a weaker
or more slender basis.—( Hear, hear.) My noble friend mat'e
a sort of (minium gailterunt speech.—( Laughter.) lie
pressed every thing into his service. He brought to-
gether what was done in the past year and in the
present :year, and then brought that forward as
the ground and foundation of a motion of such
magnitude and importance—a motion, allow me to say,
perfectly and entirely new in this House, and
which came like a thunder-clap upon me—(Loud
cheers and laughter) since I was not aware of
the existence of any spirit in this House on
which any such motion could be founded.—( Laughter.) There
were many factious motions in the last House of Commons—
those I was perfectly aware of—continued motions of a want of
confidence, but I never had the least notion that any of your
Lordships sympathised or agreed with those motions.—
(Laughter arid cheers.) There has been nothing to lead me to
suppose that your Lordships were not all reposing in tranquil
confidence the wisdom of the present Government.
(Loud laughter.) And yet, on the sudden, and on such
grounds as those stated by the Noble Lord, you come forward
unexpectedly, in a manner contrary to your former conduct,
belying all the manner in which you had conducted yourselves,
with this distinct motion of a want of confidence in her Ma-
jesty's Government.—( Laughter and cheers.) Then on what
grounds does the Noble Lord do this? He states a number ef
objections to the Speech ; lie says there are certain omissions
in it—that there is no mention of the proceedings in Western
India and in Affghanistan. With respect to these omissions
I say there have been no events in that quarter of the globe
y'oich seemed to call upon her Majesty's advisers to advise her
Majesty to make any observations respecting them in her
Speech.—(Hear, hear, hear.) But then tne Noble Lord
proceeded to a condemnation of our whole policy in
that quarter, of all that has been done, and of the grounds on
which it has heal done. Now information has already been
laid before the House on this subject, and if the Noble
Lord disapproved of that policy, he was wanting in his duty
not to bring it before the consideration of your Lordships.
—( Hear, hear.) And surely it was hardly fair to reserve ,
them to the present moment, to found on them a motion of
this new and unexpected nature ?—(Hear, hear.) Then the
Noble f.ord said the Punjaub was in a state of great dis-
order—that we had formed an alliance with Punjeet Sing
that was not very creditable to us, aid that Punjeet Sing
had died. Well, we were not responsible for that—
(Laughter)—and it is not very unnatural on the death of
an Oriental Prince for the country which he governed to fall
into disorder. The Noble lord then found fault with the ex-
pedition to China, though he hardly entirely condemned it—
but I believe it was generally admitted on both aides
that the circumstances did certainly call upon this
country for, and justified such measures as those
which have been taken by her Majesty's Government—
( Hear, hear.) It is not fitting on the present occasion to
make any observations on the conduct of that expedition. It
would be in the highest degree premature to do so; but that
it is an expedition of great difficulty every body will admit,
and that it is liable to the difficulties which the Noble Lord
has pointed out, and nothing therefore is left but to express
an anxious hope that this matter may may be brought to a
satisfactory termination. Then, my Lords, the Noble Lord
finds fault not only with what has taken place, but
with what would have taken place. He says that
we have not concluded a treaty with France, but that
if we had, it would have involved us in great difficulties ;
but as the treaty was not concluded, and the difficulties have
not arisen, it is unnecessary for me to go into any vindication
of a policy which was, in feet, net carried into effect.—(Hear,
hear.) But tho Noble bed proceeds further to the conside-
ration of the state of the question, and of those measures
which have been brought under the consideration of the House
and the country by her Majesty's Government. He finds very
considerable fault with these measures, although he agrees in
principle with all of them. He thinks the principle on which
the alteration of the timber duties is founded was a correct
principle, but doubts about the manner in which it is to be car-
ried into effect. He doubted the propriety of raising the duty
on Canadian timber, but at the same time he admits the gene-
ral principle.—( Hear, hear.) It was only the principle that
was asserted.—(Cheers.) Matters of detail were subject to
alteration in Parliament. On the question of sugar, also, the
Noble Lord says he only differs from us with respect to time; that
he thinks that measure might probably, at some period or
other, be adopted, but he likes objections to it at the present
moment, because he thinks it will encourage the slave trade.
I must freely say, having as great a hatred and detestation
of the slave trade as any man in the country, and being as
anxious to take measures to destroy, and if possible to eradi-
cate it, that it is not by means of commercial hostility, of
cutting off intercourse with slave growing countries, that the
object is to be effected.—( Hear, hear.) Then the Noble
Lord says it is unjust to India to interfere with their trade in
the sugar of slave growing states. But:my noble friend must
recollect that if he admits this objection now, it will
prevent him at any future time from adopting this measure, be-
cause that is an objection that will grow stronger by time, and
become stronger in itself, and therefore give great weight to
that objection in putting an end to any hope of ever adopting
this measure. My Noble Friend then came to that great
question, with which your Lordships must deal, and that is the
question of the trade in corn. Notwithstanding all the state-
ments my Noble Friend has made—notwithstanding all the de-
ductions he draws from fluctuations of the prices in other arti-
eles—l cannot but feel certain that the adoption of a fixed duty
would conduce to the steadiness of that trade.—( Cheers.) It
is perfectly self-evident that it must have that effect. I know
there must be fluctuations in trade, that it will change and
fluctuate, and that there will be a great variation in prices;
but that a fixed will produce a greater steadiness in price, and
a more regular and equal current of trade, it is impossible for
me to doubt. But the great argument which has always
weighed with me on this subject, is one which I will st .te
very shortly to your Lordships. I certainly have been, on
former occasions, for putting off the agitation and discussion
of this question, which I know, whenever it comes on, must
be attendeA with the circumstanoes which the Noble Lord has
described ; but I always knew that that discussion must come
—(Cheers)--that it was not to be avoided, that it was entirely
a question of time, and I only beg your Lordships' atten-
tion, while I state shortly what 1 think upon the sub-
ject. This great system of the Corn-laws is capable
of being represented and charged as having been intro-
duced and supported for the benefit of those who
introduced and supported it. It is the work of two Houses of
Legislature, one con.istin,s entirely of landowners, and the
other consisting chiefly of landowners, and I:tell you that it is not
a safe state of things. lam not accustomed to speak the lan-
guage of warning or dictation, but believe me, my Lords, in
the judgment of your country you stand in a situation in
which you arc capable of imputations of so plausible a nature—
( Hear, hear)—and I do assure your Lordships thatit is ab-
solutely necessary to put these laws, some time or
other, on a more reasonable and satisfactory founda-
tion.— (Cheers.) I do nut charge your Lordshii s
with what you are generally charged, with in-
terested feelings or motives, no man more deeply regrets, or
more decidedly condemns the generallone and arguments we
hear held on this subject. Ido not think these laws are con-
demned by the Christian religion, or that they are contrary to
morality, and ought to be extirpated and eradicated, nor do I
think that those by whom they were originated had nothing
in view but their own interests and objects. But, feeling sure
that they arc not the products of anything base, or mean, os
sordid, I entreat your Lordships to free yourselves from the
imputation, to relieve yourselves from the possibility of being
su charged. There is nothing so foolish as to suffer dis-
credit for what we don't do.—(Cheers and laughter.)
If really free from the imputation yourselves, as no doubt you
are, I earnestly entreat sour Lordships to consider whether it
would not be wise to attempt to put those laws upon a more
satisfactory and reasonable foundation. My Lords, it is a very
good argument to say that our arguments lead to a total abo-
lition, and that we mean total abolition. But that is not so.
We know many measures founded on arguments that went
much further than the measures themselves, which measures,
nevertheless, are found satisfactory. It is on these grounds
that 1 vote for an alteration with respect to the duty
on corn. I conceive that a fixed duty is the right principle—
that it would be safe and tenable, that it would insure suffi-
cint protection, and at the same time diminish much of the
general discontent and suspicion which at the present time
prevail.—(Cheers.) Itly Noble Friend brought a great num-
ber of small things together, but he seemed at the end of
his speech to feel that his stilts were tottering under him.
He referred to the money derived from the Savings' Banks, i
and said that we had done what was legal, but not what was
constitutional. He also said that we kept too small a balance
in the Exchequer, but if no distrust is felt by the proprietors
of the Savings Banks. and no inconvenience has resulted
from the state of the balances in the Exchequer, I
think these are hardly matters to form a ground
for such emotion as this.—(Cheers.) But, whatever the real
meaning of the motion in plateEnlish is, now that we have
a msjority in the House of 'ommons, we will turn out the
Ministry.—(Loud laughter. We shall see. I will not judge
)
from what they had said on the hustings- When they come
to hear arguments in a more satisfactoryughter. ) I must. say,
manner, they mayen-
tertain other opinions.—( Cheers and la
I derive some degreee of consolation and hope from the argu •
ments by which this conclusion was supported on the hustings.
I t
feel certain
fainthllaay
that such is the sense of honour and justice, that
when
vere in op•nions is
basedshown
otno tshuenii, thae trill
usm iel
tnso. t penrsuct:
as I said, this is the real meaning of this motion, which cer-
tainly I did not expect from the previous conduct of this House.
My Noble Friend on the cross benches (Lord Lyttleton) has
given us the benefit of his support—(Laughter)—but perhaps
we should have been as well without his support; but I think
nay Noble Friend a little overstates Whig doctrines, ashen he
said that on the last division in the House of Commons on the
Irish Registration Bill, we ought to have resigned; and when
he made a strong attack upon us on account of the Appropriation
Clause. Now the reso:ution we came to was, that no settlement
of the tithe question should be adopted by us that did not contain
a provision for the appropriatiun of some part of the revenues
of this Church to some other purpose, such as education. What
was that, but saying that we would do our utmost to miry such
a measure?—(Cheers and laughter.) I say no more than that
lam sorry that clause was not carried. I believe it would have
done much for the stability of the Church if the clause had bet n
carried. NVe brought it forward two or three times in the
House, and, when we found it impossible to carry it, we aban-
doned it. The Noble Lord says that was wrong. But what
does lie say to the conduct of Sir Robert Walpole on the Excise
scheme, a scheme much like ours ; at least making the
same professions. He said that it was necessary
for the repeal of the Land-tax, and for the greater improve-
ment of the commerce of the country, and that it would gene-
rally facilitate trade. It was impossible to state the advantages
of a measure higher than lie stated it. " But.," said he, "if
the interested clamour and prejudice of individuals prevail
against. me, I will give up the scheme, and not only will I give
up this scheme but I will never bring forward another on
similar principles, and it will be long enough if I am defeated
thus before another al inister will he bold enough to follow my
example. I consider this measure beneficial and necessary,
but if I am thus overpowered I will give it up, and not only
will I give it up, but I will never bring forward a similar mea-
sure." And this is what a Minister must do. I e ill only