The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-29 00:00:00

VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE.

The Order of the Day for the Adjourned Debate on
this motion having been read,

Mr. R. M. MILNES rose and said, that belonging
to that small minority of the Members of the
House who did not take part in the late debate,
he thought he had now some small claim on the atten-
tion of the House and he assured the House that if it
were granted to him he would not abuse it. He wished
it had been his good fortune to have caught the
Speaker's eye last night, because he should then sud-
denly and unpremeditatedly have uttered his opinions,
which the House, under such circumstances, would have
received With its usual indulgence. But, rising this evening
to speak first upon the adjourned debate of a former day,
he feared the. House might expect from him that which
he had it not to give. It would be expected of him
or of any other Honourable Member who would ad-
dress the House this evening, that he should address his
attention to the speech of the Right Honourable Mem-
ber for Edinburgh (Mr. Macaulay). However they
might differ in opinion as to the reasoning of that speech,
they must all allow that it was one of the most interest-
ing speeches ever delivered on the floor of that House.—
He felt that in coming into competition with such an au-
thority, he would need all the kindness of the
House, and must place himself entirely at its mercy.
If he (Mr. Milnes) understood his Right Hon. Friend
rightly, he thought he admitted that the Govern-
ment of which he was a member was not
able to carry certain measures, which, nevertheless,
they believed were most important for the interests
of the country ; but that notwithstanding this,
he was not prepared to come to the conclusion of the
Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, that
her Majesty's Ministers were unworthy of the con-
fidence of the. House. If his Right Honourable
Friend had made good his proposition, he must say at
once that he considered that the debate was at an end.
In answer to the subtle disquisitions and historical dis-
sertations of his Right Hon. Friend there were two

simple questions, which. seemed conclusive against his
argument, and these questions were, that if this
were true if a Government were capable of
administering the affairs of the country with-
out demanding the legislative confidence of
the Parliament, whether they would not ar-
rive at these two conclusions first, that it was
next to impossible to turn out any Government
at all, and that it was next to impossible to pro-
ceed with the Government of the country ?
Ifhe was not wrong, the principal of those precedents which
refer to the present case were those of Mr. Pitt, during
his long warfare Administration, and that of his Bight
Hon. Friend the Member for Tamworth, during the six
weeks in which he was defeated in that House. But there
was this difference between those and the 'present case;
'those questions were solely questions of party, and were
carried by party spirit ; the questions then were, not
whether such and such questions should be carried, but
whether the Government should be confided to certain men.
He was sorry that he did not see the Noble Lord the
Member for Lincolnshire in his place, for he wished
to tell him how inconsistent it was in him to vote
"no confidence" in the Ministers on one night, and vote
confidence in them a few nights after. That
was not the way in which the question would
be looked at by the constituencies of England.
They were now in a dead fix (Loud laughter)—
they were in a dead lock, and was that a fit
state of things for a great country like this ?
It appeared to him that something should be done
at the present important juncture. It was said
that in their Administrative functions there was no
fault to be found with the present Government, and that
it was only to their legislative measures that objec-
tion could be taken. He would remind the Rouse,
however, of the conduct of the Government with re-
gard to the measure of the Noble Lord the Member
for North Lancashire, for the amendment of the system
of registration in Ireland. They did not come forward
to co-operate in the good work—they did not take objec-
tion to its details, but they threw the whole weight of
their influence into the scale to throw out the Bill, al-
though they must have been aware that there was no pos-
sibility of their new measure being carried. They
were at present in a terrible crisis ; but that crisis had
been the work of Ministers themselves. It was
at the very time when they might expect a
sufficient supply of sugar from our own colonies
that the Government came down and put the whole
question of negro emancipation in peril. It was in like
manner, tiller the country was subsiding into
habits of peaceful industry, that the nation was
to be agitated by a discussion of the Corn-laws.
At a public meeting the other day he had heard it
stated by a gentleman who had attended that meeting,
that he rejoiced at the difficulties in which her Majesty's
Ministers were placed, because the deficiency in the
revenue, and the difficulties with which they were sur-
rounded, were the means of causing them to bring for-
ward the great question of the Corn-laws. He did not
doubt that if her Majesty's Ministers had gone on as
they had done there would still be found men who would
be glad of the difficulties in which the Ministry. was
placed. He thought that by a more cautious line of
.policy the deficiency in the revenue which had taken
place might have been • avoided. The Ministry being
in this difficulty they had thrown down the question
of the Corn-laws, and if ever there was a question
that demanded the calm consideration of the House and
the country, it was that question, and upon the agitation
of it, the Ministry depended to retain their seats. Ho
would venture to say that the Noble Lord on this ques-
tion was meeting the country under false pretences.
The Ministry was raising the cry of the alteration of
the Corn-laws, which alteration they never intended to
carry into effect. It was said that the side of the House
on which he sat were afraid of the dissolution.
They were afraid of it for the sake of the people,
not for the sake of themselves. He would not say
that this question would not be carried, but if
it were carried, it would be by agitation and agitation
alone. If he could be persuaded that an alteration of
the Corn-laws would set matters right, and would re-
solve the great question of the famine or the sustenance
of the people, he, as a landlord, would be too
glad to sacrifice some of the income he received,
in order to effect so great a good. If his Right Hon.
Friend, the Member for Tamworth, when he crossed over
to the benches on the other side of the House, which he
soon would do—(Laughter)—could not carry forward
measures which he conceived to be for the good of the
people, he would not remain there, but would send the
present Ministers back again.—(Hear, hear.) The great
constitutional question must be decided, whether the
Ministry were to be defeated, or whether they were to
remain in power, the contempt and ridicule of the world.
lie would not say what a Conservative Government
would do, but he would state what it would not do ; it
would not lay the train of agitation.—(Great cheering.)
In conclusion, he begged to say that he cordially sup-
ported the motion of his Right Hon. Friend the Member
for Tamworth.

Mr. SANFORD opposed the motion. The Right
Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth had screwed
his courage to the sticking point, and brought them at
last to a real stand-up fight. The present question was
not whether therowas a want of confidence in her Ma-
jesty's Ministers, but whether that confidence should be
transferred to the Right Hon. Baronet. For his own
part, he must say, looking at the course of policy the
Right Hon. Gentleman had pursued, that he could place
no confidence in him. Should they do so becanse of his
conduct in 1829, when he so suddenly changed his prin-
ciples upon the Catholic question ? The Right lion.
Baronet, asking, as he did, for so high an honour as the
Premiership, ought to speak out plainly, and tell the
country what were his principles, and how he would
govern the country. When the measures of the
Reform Government were looked at without any
tinge of party spirit, it would be found that
more real legislation had been done during the last ten
years than in any previous period of the same length.
He would not vote for the motion, because he would think
it not a vote of no confidence in the Government, but a
vote of confidence in the Right Hon. Baronet.
Mr. DARBY would not follow the Hon. Member
who had just spoken, but would confine Himself to prov-
ing the fallacy of some of the arguments of the Right
Hon. Gentleman the Secretary at War. He stated that
the resolution of the Right Hon. Baronet was dan-
gerous because the Opposition could not form a
strong Government. But why not ? Look at the way
in which the people had withdrawn their confidence from
the Government. In 1833 the majority was 400 ; next
year it was 300 ;—in 1836 it had fallen to 50 ; in 1837
and 1838 it was 30 ; in 1839 it had fallen to 10 ; while in
1840, out of eleven divisions, which they called great
party divisions, they were beat in eight of them.—(Loud
cheers.) All this proved to him that the Right Hon. Ba-
ronetthe Member for Tamworth was justified in bringing
forward the motion, and that he had a good prospect of
forming a strong Government. His opinion was that if
the Government went to the country upon their Budget,
with all their agitation, they would find not Peel martyrs
but Russell martyrs.-2(Cheers.) The policy of the Go-
vernment was the author of all the Chartism which they
bad seen ; they had sown the wind, did they expect they
were not to reap the whirlwind ? They for party pur-
poses had excited the people, they had promoted those
who misled them, and having been obliged to punish
them for their disturbances, the people calling them-
selves Chartists were disgusted with their peddling
policy, and gave their unsolicited support to the Con-
servatives. Were they to blame for that ? No,
the Government had themselves to blame ; they
having first excited the people. They had pre-
pared fearful weapons of agitation, and they must not
be surprised if other parties took to the same means ; but
they alone would be responsible to their Sovereign and
the country if tumults arose, if such should be the re-
sult of their misleading the people. Suppose the Noble
Lord were to succeed, was he prepared to quell the tu-
mult, and make it recede to any point.he pleased ? But
if he failed, as fail he must, the Right Hon. Secretary
at War acknowledged they had been humiliated during
the last two years ; but, if they now failed, that humi-
liation would be immensely increased, for they mottle
have to resign their offices in the face of an insulted peo-
ple whom they had grossly misled. If the Noble Lord
dissolved, as he supposed he intended, he (Mr. Darby)
would look with fearful apprehension at the difficulties
in which the country would be placed. For his own
part he had always denounced agitation, and he
would continue to do so, for he thought it
was unstatesman-like to resort to such a trick. The Go-
vernment could not go on—the business of the House
and of the country was stopped. They were without
finances. In 1784 Mr. Erskine deprecated a dissolution
under such circumstances, but the same party to which
he belonged were now about to take that step, when the
country was in much more. difficulty than it was then.
In his opinion they were wholly unfit to carry on the
Government of the country ; he would therefore give his
unhesitating support to the motion of the Right Hon.
Baronet.

Mr. HUTTON said the lion. Member who had just
sat down, had greatly mistaken the result of the present
agitation. It would be for the country to pronounce its
opinion upon the measures which had been brought for-
ward by the Government, for the relief of the distress at
present prevailing to so great an extent. He did not
think that distress had been overstated, but he rose
principally for the purpose of expressing his gratitude
for the benefits conferred by the present Government
upon the people of Ireland, which had produced an un-
heard of tranquillity and repose in that country. The
Right Hon. Baronet had • studiously refrained from
alluding to the state of Ireland, and he feared that he
would find that country one of the greatest obstacles
in the way of his carrying on the business of the coun-
try. It had been stated by the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer, that a great deficiency had been caused in the re-
venue by the recent efforts that had been made in Ireland
to shake off a most oppressive vice. He was gratified
that so flatterirg a picture had been drawn of that coun-
try, but he would, remind the House that the deficiency
which had been caused by the reduction in the quantity
of spirits consumed in Ireland could be amply supplied
by the increased consumption of sugar, tea, and coffee, if
Hon. Members on the other side of the House would
only allow them to have those commodities at a mode-
rate price. The Bill which had been introduced by the
Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire, for the
amendment of the Registration of Voters in Ireland,
and the provisions of that Bill, would give the people of
that country a foretaste of what they had to expect from
the Noble Lord when he became a member of the Go-
vernment. From all he had seen of the policy of the
Noble Lord, and of the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, . lie
was satisfied that they would never give satisfaction to
the people of Irelard; and on these grounds he should
give his decided opposition to the motion of the Right
Hon. Baronet.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord NORRE YS said the present Government had vio-
lated every principle on which it had set out. They
question
duringof peace,th
last
year, in
more than one quarter? And as regarded retrenchment,
called themselves the friends of peace, retrenchment, and
notrefo
involvedrm:Witthherecgoaurndtrt; in theo
war,
had they not seen the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the
Exchequer coming down to the House, on more than one