The Sun.
London, England, 1847-01-20 00:00:00

THE SUN, LON DO N, WEDNESDAY EVEN IN G, JANUARY 20, 147.
.•

p(,,r !It ni
on with respect o f ishrecat cattle,to sal
, and subsequently
meat.bsequ fromntlythre Ireland.w as aHsie milstr
i,owas
therefore inclined to think that there was a large pecuniary
debt due from England to Ireland.—( Hear.) He trusted that
the measures that would be proposed would be d that large
character that would meet all the difficulties that existed in
that country.
The Marquis of WESTMEATH— There was no country in
the world that had a larger stake in agriculture than Ireland.
Notwithstanding all this, his Noble Friend had just said he
trusted that Government would not adopt his advice. The
remedial measures which had bees proposed were entitled to
respect, but he trusted that the condition of the country
would not be put on merely vague premise!.
The Ear: of RODEN would take the present opportunity
of saying a few words. He could very well enter into the
feeling of the Noble Lord who had drawn such a picture of
the wretchedness of the Irish people.—an amount of wretched-
ness that harrowed up the feelings. In the course of one
week the whole food of the people of that country was de-
stroyed. Tho people of England felt acutely the state of the
people of Ireland, and of this tie had every day's experience to
prove. He must agree with his Noble Friend when he blamed
the Government for having agreed to the Labour Act.
The answer that had been given to that was, that Government
was not aware of the extent of the calamity that prevailed in
Ireland. He could not omit referring to one circumstance
that was of great importance to Ireland, and that was her being
governed by a native. He would not be doing justice to that
nobleman if lie did not state that he was doing all in his power
to meet the distress of that country. He (the Lord Lieutenant
of Ireland) was acquainted with the Irish character, and was,
therefore, qualified to give the Home Council the requisite ad-
vice, and enable them to adopt the necessary measures, and
carry them out in the most judicious manner.—( Hear, hear.)
There were many other points to which the attention of the
House might be profitably called; and if his services in contri-
buting towards any beneficial measures were necessary, he would
afford them with the greatest pleasure.—(Hear, hear. )
He had heard of the foulest aspersions on the character of
Irish landlords. He was in the habit of meeting these gentle-
men from day to day, and he admired the self-devotedness with
which they gave of their substance to support the poer around
them. He said to these good men, "Go on, and the truth
may yet dispel the clouds which ignorant minds have cast
around you."
Earl HARDWICKE proceeded to show that it was in the
power of Government to send any quantity of corn to supply
the Irish people if they could only get shipping enough to convey
it. For instance, a few days ago there was in the pert of Li-
verpool wheat, oats, barley% pease, &c., equal to 204,903 quar-
ters of wheat, sufficient to feed 2,500,000 persons sor the
period of one month. In the port of London ho found 175,257
quarters, sufficient to feed 2,100,000 persons for a month. In
Glasgow, 245,776 quarters, which was sufficient to feed
1,700,000 persons for the same period, making a total of
4,625,936 quarters, being equal to the consumptionof 6,300,000
persons for a month, or 2,100,000 for three months.
After a few words from Lord AUCKLAND,
Lord STA NTEY said he wished to ask the Noble Marquis
the Lord President of the Council, whether besides laying
upon the table on Monday next the papers connected with Ire-
land, and stating the plans Government were prepared to adopt
for remedying the existing evil, he intended to take the sense
of the Ilouse upon those plans. If the Noble Marquis did, it
would be exceedingly inconvenient.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE replied in the negative.
The sense of the Home would not be taken upon the Govern-
ment plan till it came up from the lower House.
The address was then agreed to, and the Earl of SHAFTES-
BURY, together with the Mover and Seconder nominated to
present it to her Majesty.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

policy of England was beund up in !he existence of such terms
of amity, but the same necessity dal ;lot absolutely exist with Tt
regal d to Prussia. Still, tiowever Prussia was more to
blame than either of the ether 'goat-erre raeow, no doubt,
was cbjectioneble to Russia, but how
tot
undcould
tand.
so to Prussia he was at a lossersbe
Russia, however, required tke extinction of Cracow,
and Russia consented to it, but it %tout., have earned itself
more glories and more respect had it stood aeainst the plan.
He esteemed the abilities of the ruler ot Austria, and the
learning of the Ring of Prussia, and yet he believed that they
would do much by the establishment of free and liberal institu-
tions in their several states to blot out the stain upon their
national character, which the Cracow proceedings had cast
upon them. The Noble Lord who moved the address,alarmed
them by describing the alterations in the Laws ot Property,
which the new measure for relieving Ireland would bring about,
but the Noble Lord did not go very fully into
the subject, because he omitted to say any thing
about local courts, arid sueh tribunals.—( Hear. ) Now
it was important that this branch of the subject touched upon
by the Noble Lord should be deliberately considered by their
Lordships; but he was very much afraid they would not have
the opportunity of making ameralments or alterations in it, and
he would tell their Lordships why. They would have to agree
to the measure whether they approved of it or not. The coca-
s ire would be made a money Bill, and how could their Lord-
ships, in the existing state of things, refuse to sanction it ?
( Hear, hear.) To obviate this difficulty, if the House of Cone-
:eons did not wish to monopolise the collective wisdom of
the country, the plan should be agreed to in the shape
of resolutions, and he was convinced neither the
other House of Parliament n r the country would have
cause to regret such a course. Their Lordships had not so
much to do as the other House, and they had therefore more
time for discussing and improving such measures.—( Hear,
hear. ) Their Lordships ought to be careful that a line— a
broad line—was drawn between measures intended to be per-
manent, and those of a mere temporary character, passed aid
agreed to, to meet a momentary expediency, or a passing evil.
Surely their Lordships ought to have some power of discussing
all these measures, because, come up to them in whatever form
they might, in the present state of things, they could not be
rejected. But measures agreed to in a time when sufferings of
the most heartrending desc, iption pervaded the land, rendered
the more heartrending, because more touching the patience
—the almost inimitable patience with which it seemed to be
borne—where scenes of suffering and misery were being
enacted daily, the parallels of which were not to be found
even in the pages ef f hutstiideS, on the canvass of Poussin, or
in the dismal chant of Dan e, could never be inten,tect to be
permanent, and, therefore, it was, that he urged wpon their
Lordships the urgent necessity of taking care that. no perma-
nent measure should be agreed to in times so har-
rassing and exciting. The importance and necessity
for this caution, was fully proved in the case of the
Labour-rate Act. That measure had failed ; there was net
one man out of a hundred who agreed to it last year who was
not now prepared to surrender and give up its benefits. That
measure was passed in exciting and distressing times to meet
a momentary emergency, though still intended to he perma-
nent and it had Tai ed. Ile rusted, therefore, a •trict line
would be drawn between measures of a permanent character
and those only intended to set ve ternporar, purposes. In proof
of the evil results of hasty measures, he would refer to the
Bill passed in Air. Pitt's time, in the year 1797, relating
i to
cash payments. That was intended to be a tem_po cry nea-
sure ; but how long did they think it lasted? Wny, it con-
tinued for three-an I-twenty years, and its hasty repeal then
was nearly as mischievous as the Bill itself. Let them take
rare, therefore, that their temporary measures would not be
productive of the same results. The present evils under which
they laboured were bad enough, but he was very much afraid
that the next year's crop would be also sadly deficient. The
Labour-rate proceeding had taken away the labourers of the
land, and there had been no attempt to raise a crop for the
coming year He deprecated, therefore, any rash legislation
on the subject, for he believed that ilisadvised measures would
cause a greater amount , f evil than they were intended to
cure. With regard to the absentee landlords, he differed
widely from his Noble Friend who moved the address. Gene-
rally speaking, an absentee landlord hail a good agent who filled
in a great degree the duties of the absentee owner just as well
as if he himself resided it the country. He was not disposed
to think that the Irish absentee landlords acted in a different
manner.
Lord H ATHERTON—My observation did not apply to the
large proprietors. The great mass of the Irish absentee land-
lords are small owners.
Lord BROUGHAM—Then where did they live? He could
not believe that they had been so neglectful of their duties as
had been represented. lie would, at all events, hazard one
observation, that nothing could be more dangerous, or more
calculated to entail misery upon the Irish people, than to in-
duce them to believe that when in a state of destitution they
had a claim upon the imperial revenue. He believed that to
inculcate such doctrines would prove fatal to industry—ruinous
to the future interests of the country, and superinduce a
thoughtlessness and extravagance totally indescribable.
It would be most particularly mischievous to the
Irish people, who were so sanguine in their hopes,
so confident in their delusions, and who easily relapse
into their habits of indolence. They were not to judge of the
Irish labourers by such of them as visited England to cut down
the harvest, for a better class of labourers he never saw. He
could undertake to say that they never took a chicken along
the whole i ourse of their journey, and they worked extremely
hard, and endured great privations during their stay. But that
was not the character of the labourer in his own country.
Therefore nothing ought to be done to induce him to suppo.e
that his wants were ready to be supplied by the Treasury of
the empire. Let them have advances by loan, but let care
be taken that it be properly appropriated, usefully
applied, and the interest paid, and the principal repaid by the
parties who obtained it, and who were locally benefited. He
did not think that any Government, however strong, would
dare to make such a proposal to the English people, and he
could not conceive a more frightful scene than would he dis-
closed if two or three millions were given in this way.
Among the various strange statements which from time to
time came front that country, as proof of the evils of the con-
nexion, was one from the Right Rev., or he should rather say
the Archbishop, M•Hale, to the effect that pensions, to
the amount of sixty millions, had, during the last half century,
been imported into this country, but he forgot to state that
they had been all paid for.—( Laughter. ) Hr presumed it
was some such consideration of this kind which induced one
authority to ask for the present distress, forty millions and ano-
ther sixty millions. He objected to any gifts of the kind. Let
,he money advanced to help them be paid hack, both prlncip.il
and interest. 't hat was the only security they could
have for the ultimate good of the Irish people and the
prevention of those evils which now distress the coun-
try. He considered the present contributions in this country
for the relief of the distress in Ireland were chiefly
valuable as indications of the good feeling of individuals, and
he had rio language to describe the naked atrocity of a charge,
contained in one of the Irish papers, to the effect that the
money was sent over to make converts to the Protestant
religion of the starving population. Nothing so false as that
ever before came under his notice. Many excused themselves
from contributidg on the ground of the payments into the
savings banks of that country, and the subscription to what
was called the "rent," but these subscriptions were paid by
one class, and the misery endured by antehet. They
should see when the time arrived what the measures
were, which the Government intended to propound.
But with regard to what had been stated by the Noble Lord
behind him (Stanley) in reference to depots of supply, he
begged entirely to dissent. Cases might arise in singularly
circumstanced countries where such a course might be deemed
advisable, but anything of the kind on a large scale, such as
was contemplated, would, he conceived, be exceedingly dan-
gerous and prolific of evil. With respect to the financial
affairs of the country, it was well known that great sums of
money had been employed in railway speculation. He be-
lieved that in a short time upwards of 6,000,000/. had been
employed in this country upon various railways. He hap-
pened to know that in France it was the same thing. They
had their financial crisis, anti the Bank of I' ranee had gone
down to 2,000,000/. He now told them that even if they had
sent for corn to foreign markets, and sent goods to purchase it
for their own distresses, they would not get it for anything but
gold and silver. And it was the same with France. In the
event of any interchange of commodities, and the blessings of
such an interchange would be felt by the whole country, the
Bank of England would not feel it necessary to keep their dis-
counts raised to a quarter per cent. But they had done it in
consequence of the Bank of France, Supposing the Amer:-
cans were to say that they would allow their corn to be p. r-
chased without paying bullion for low they could not purchase
it, foe the goods were not ready ing to the bad state of
trade. The manufacturers had not shaped their supplies for
any foreign demand, and that was in consequence of the Go-
vernment sending fifty or sixty millions into the market and
destroying private speculation. He did not mean to under-
rate the exertions that had been made for the people
of Ireland or the sympathy felt for the people, but he
felt it to be his duty to mention these evils which it was
asp
sible to put down by legislation. Facility should be given for
the cheap transfer and conveyance of land, with a due regard to
the interest of the next heirs. He would conclude his remarks by
apologizing for the length of time which he had occupied,
and he would ask the judgment of the House whether he had
not kept a promise, one, however, which he had never
made.—(Laughter)—of not entering on any offensive or
invidious topic.
Earl FITZ WILLIANI said that he felt extreme satisfac-
tion at what had passed in that House during the course of
the present debate ; and he trusted that the tone of the other
House would correspond with what had taken place there, for
he
was sure, arid he had the strongest opportunity of observing,
that there had existed in the minds of the English public an
incredulity with reference to the existence of distress is Ire-
land, which he trusted would be removed. The obsetvatioas
which had fallen from many Noble Lords in the course of the
present conversation, but more particularly in the moving and
touching speech delivered by his Noble Friend who had
seconded the Address—( Hear, hear)—and he trusted that
notwithstanding the low tone in which that speech was de-
livered. every word of it would, in some way or other, and
its way out of doors, and sink into the minds and hearts of
English p, ogle; or, if they had riot felt as much alive on this
subject as he had, he trusted it would excite in other minds
noire sympathy for the distress of their brethren in Ireland.
There was, unfortunately, on this side of the channel, a dis-
position to incredulity of everything that hapi ened on the
other, He entirely agreed with his Learned and Noble Friend,
that there had not commenced a session of Parliament
in the recollection of those who now sat in it under circum-
stances more awful than those which now presented toche cam-
selves to their consideration. There was on the present
sion something worth thinking about, and worth the while of
every man who had a mind capable of thinking, to turn all
his energies, in order to devise what, could be done for that
country. It was no common problem they
had to solve, and
depend upon it, it was net by small or half measures the
My could
think of staying the calamity.—( Hear, hear.) Measures
had been proposed, as far as he had been able to collect
them from her Majesty's Speech, and as tar as he could collect
them from his Noble Friend with respect to all these miseries.
He had nothing to say to them as far as they went, except
that he approved of them. But whether they would go to
theor
wf
hu
el l length, c t
herri gt`hhe,yo
wereup to
capableth e full
of
theof those
calamities,prohlem t
e he
solved by legislation, he could not pretend to say. The question
ofwheoicothinhge
toenatesortuaoid:o entertained waswasonedesirouson
must consider in his own mind what
othereme l
us
ohgroeoa doubt.t t
ph
ni
sNetins hoohomjceevenetra,
Ireland ! resented to their consideration. The great. pheno-
menon of Ireland was its rural 'population. Out. of 8,000,000
of people, seven-eighths of themto were included under that
.clelanr
denomination, ntter
thanat io ni.t
wlat w s
now,
capable of cultivating aritimogt,htehaotouohnter-yhamlfueohf
that population was
truth, notwithstanding,
Marquis, who sat
notwithstanding, he re-
membered bh rme
in
speakinghae, t
oonth offended
this subject,
he would venture again
to say that agriculture, except in a few instances,
be saed to exist in Ireland. Agriculture comet scarcely
car-
ried on as a trade, but speaking lin Englartd was
farmer and the Irish cottier tenant6e
generally ly of Ireland, the Irish
not
land to carry on a trade, but to live, andany sit down on their
the payment of the rent. As long as that land
l and was inhabited,
surplus went to
and lived on by the cottier tenantry,they
legislate for it as they' slid for the rural could never
t ion in England. They might be deceivedpopula-
tion the
similarity of words, but the y should
not by
legislate
for the two countres alike, because the tenantry in both
countries were described under the same denomination.th
The present Poor-laws in Ireland had been fraught
with mischief, and the whole system would continue
so until the surplus population of Ireland was drained.
In the reign of Charles 11., there was a prohibition to the im-

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Jan. 19.
The SPEAKER again took the Chair at Four o'clock,
and informed the House that he had, during the vaca-
tions, issued his writ for the election of a new Member
for North Lincolnshire, in room of Lord Worsley, who
had lately been raised to the House of Peers, as Earl of
Yarborough.
Colonel MURE took the oaths and his seat for Ren.
frewshire, vacant by the death of the late P. M. Stewart,
HER MAJESTY'S SPEECH.—THE ADDRESS.
(Continued from our Third Edition of last night.)
Mr. LAIIOUCHERE said, that although for many
years he had been in the habit of addressing the House,
yet, he confessed, that at no time had he risen
more impressed with the responsibility of his position,
or under a stronger impression how much he should
stand in need of the accustomed kindness of the House.
—(clean) The Hon. Gentleman the Member for Li-
merick had in very strong language depicted the distress
at present exiting in Ireland. He (Mr. Labouchere)
wished that it was in his power to say that he con-
sidered that the lion. Gentleman had
no overcharged
the picture. There had been, dou, in
some particular instances, great exaggeration.
Before lion. Members could charge her Majesty's
Ministers as had been done by the Honourable
Member for Limerick (Mr. Smith O'Brien), they
ought to consider the ordinary condition of Ire-
land before this great calamity took place. What
was the liana state of that country? It was
no exaggeration to say, that the people were the worst
housed, the worst clothed, and the worst fed of any
people in Europe.—(Hear, hear.) He had in his
possession some facts which would throw considerable
light upon this question, which had been certified as
correct by one of the best authorities on the subject.
He meant the commission for inquiry into the condition of the
poor that had been issued in 1835. The labours of that com-
mission proved that there were 1,131,000 agricultural labourers
whose average wages did not exceed from 2s. to 2s. 6d.
per week, and of this number one-half were unemployed
for thirty weeks in the year. Such was the condition of Ire-
land in 1835. Such was the country on which a calamity had
Callen unparalleled in modem times. By a visitation of Pro-
vidence the food of a large proportion of the people had been
almost entirely swept away. The iotato crop had been a com-
plete failure. He had obtained some calculations of the loss
whicis Ireland had sustained in money value, certified as correct
by one of the best statisticians in Ireland, Mr. Griffiths. He cal-
culated that one and a half millions of acres were
under potatoes, the ordinary value of which crop
was 10/. an acre. This was an aggregate value of
15,000,000/.. and a' three-fourths had been destroyed,
the loss was 11,250,00/. There had also been a great tailure
in the oats. There were four millions of acres under that
cr, p, of which one-third was destroyed, making a loss in
money of 4,660,t)001. The total loss, therefore, was
on these two crops 15,916,0001. That was the ques-
tion which he had to put before them. Now
these were the calculations of loss which had been occasioned
by the calamity that had befallen Irelend. What was the mea-
sure of the loss? Why it was found, on investigation,
that the failure of the crop had fallen on a million
and a half of acres of potato ground, and that the
loss in weight amounted to 11,250,000 lbs. The value of this
produce was estunated at 4,837,0001. From other causes
there was a loss of upwards of 5,227,000/. But the House
knew that this calamity was not to be estimated by the loss of
produce, or of the money for which that produce could be
sold. Great as was that misfortune, there was a far
greater one to endure. Every one acquainted with the
construction of society in Ireland knew how intimately the cul-
ture of the potato entered into it, and how great a stake it con-
stituted in the welfare of the country. He would not trouble
the House with details with which they were familiar, but he
had only to recal it to their recollection to give them
some idea of the distress which this loss bad occasioned.
Not only was the cottage farmer deprived
off his
usual supply of food, but also of the means pay-
ing that rent for which he was responsible, but which
he now found himself unable to pay. Then there was the
farm labourer, who was now deprived of every resource.
When these two facts were taken into consideration
Honourable Members would obtain some idea of the
deprivation which the loss of food had occasioned,
and what had been the reality of the suffering. The
Hon. Member for Limerick had described the state of
misery and destitution in the county of Mayo, and charged the
Government with having produced that state. Why, in the
year 1835, a witness said, in his examination before one of the
Committees of that House, "that the county of Mayo could
supply beggars enough for all Europe." Was it, then, fair
or just to charge upon the Government the present disastrous
state of the country ?—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member
went on to attack his Noble Friend at the head of the Govern-
ment because he had adhered to the pledge which he gave at
the close of last session, not to interfere with the ordinary
supply of food to Ireland. The pledge which his Noble Friend
had given was this, •' that the Government would not meddle
with the import trade of provisions to Ireland from foreign
countries." He (Mr. Labouchere) now maintained that it
was most fortunate that the Government had firmly, and
under much obloquy, adhered to that pledge. He knew of
nothing more criminal on the part of the Government than to
allow themselves, against their own reason, to be hurried into
the adoption of a course which they were satisfied would notwas be
for the good of the country.—(Cheers.) He
sure that if Government had turned importers of food
on a large scale, and attempted to do that which
no Government could have done,
the attempt
would have failed. The short period of penty would have
been succeeded by all the horrors of an aggravated famine.—
( Hear.) Hon. Members on the opposite side seemed to think
`,hat the power of Government was unlimited. There could not
be a greater mistake than that. He fully admitted that there
were occasions when the Government might step aside from
the rule which should be observed on common occasions.—
(Cheers.) The fallacy of the reasoning of the Hon. Member
for Limerick was to be met not by argument, but by the
Governmentfood
trades
the
wouldhcoand
qhuuanevdneecret a 1 c'e n to supply
result.—( Hear.) Was there any man who did not know
that
t•
n• a
1-1
di
ft
h a twt tehaparalysed?beenwe eldhave
The pledge which the Government made was this, that they
would not import corn from abroad for Ireland under any
rn hady6,ho
saidexcited
We the
must kw circumstances. It was neco naryto speak out on
the subject. The conduct of the preceding Go-
✓f
e e rnso ewat we are about
of
h
hewthe importingot
merchants,er
before we go into the American markets. We ought to know
what the Government intend to do." And his Noble
Friend announced his intention, and he had ad-
heredouldt° not itinterefevreer under ordinary He,circuhmowsteavnecre with'sdid
not make that pledge without qualification. He added, that
the rttail trade of Ireland. There were
parts of Ire-
land in which there was an entire absence of retail
trade where he (Mr. Labouchere) thought the Government
ought to interfere. In the western part, and on the southern
coast, there was this absence, and, with respect to them, they
thought they would do more good than harm by interfering.
--(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") In other parts they
would base done more injury than good by such an ir.terfer-
ence, for if they had attempted to control the whole retail trade
they would have signally failed. The Hon. Gentleman had
reproached them with not acting properly. The Right Hon.
Baronet, the Member for Tamworth (Sir Robert Peel),
when he was the First Lord of the Treasury had to
deal with a calamity in Ireland of less magnitude
however, than the one with which they were now railed
noon to deal. The circumstances were, in fact, different.
They were then living under a different state of
difficulty in which the calamity had placed him, he adopted
commerce than at that period ; and, in order to meet the
a very just and a very praisewmoeratlh,y
wchoicuhrsew.—as(Calsteetrisl.2t
He reduced the duty on Indian
t. and the Irish uanbecame
was imported in considerable q
article of food which was more nourishing
accustomed to an • l
time an article unknown, an dp rohibited in Ireland. It
and which consequent y produced
The Right llonourable Baronet
excellent effects. effects. T
the most entire secrecy,
ducted that operation with
successful.—( Loud cheers. )
than the potato,
and though secret,
having follow ed • the example of her Majesty's
vernment for not lies into Ireland from America,
late Government in throwing supp
sible to do so. The Hon.
Ilwoasn. Gentleman blamed the Go-
And, therefore, when thiet
he did not recollect that it was imuos •
G ent had
the distress. He need not
tot tak n sufficient care to remedy
Friend had taken office
remind the House that his N(A.le
session. For a long
at a late period in
the
past f her Majesty were
Gentleman bad gone on to ob.et re that t—e oserrim
time before that the fa, mer Ministers Q
aware that the calamity which has
hadsi accordin u
gly taken sucntrh
was rapidly approaching, they
t beneficial, and
measures as they considered mos
nce vi.sited the coy

when his Noble Friend assume's' office he found that that the Government hal acted unwisely, in not trailing Par-
a course had been adopted, which had received the sanction of liament together at an earlier period cordo censure them for
that House, and almost the adoration of the Irish landed having over-ridden the law ; they wee isposed to say that
proprietors. He alluded to the plan of affording relief to the measures which had been had recourse to, were not those
the mass of unemployed labourers through the medium of to which they had agreed.—( Hear, hear.) 'They had been
public works. That system had, no doubt, been attended with told that upwards of four hundred thousand persons had been
seine abuse; but, upon the whole, and as a matter of choice, employed in works utterly useless—they had been told by
they thought it least objectionable, but they never recommended their Inspector-General ( Colonel Douglas) that the only
this measure as one intended to provide for the whole effect of these works had been to obstruct the public convey-
labouring population of Ireland. They were in hopes that ances, and that, in consequence of the way in which the
works of that description would have the effect of stimulating Act had been administered, the people had been with
landed proprietors to the undertaking •of useful produc- drawn from the cultivation of the fields.—(H hear. )
tive works, rather than be thrown away on the roads. With respect to the supply of food, he could not agree in the
In these hopes, however, they had been disappointed. principles of political economy, which had been adopted by
The Honourable Member 'for Limerick went on to com- the Right Hon. Gentleman. Ireland was a country where the
plain that the system of public works was deficient, and people had been accustomed to depend for their eubsistance on
that the parties employed to carry it out were inefficient. potatoes grown within a few yards of their own houses.
—(Hear, hear. ) To that he would say, that considering When such a calamity overtook the country, it was but reason-
the extensive operations of the Board there might be some able to expect that the Government would have broken
inefficient servants, but with regard to the officers themselves, through its harsh rules of political economy, and taken mea-
he believed that no reasonable complaint could be urged. sores for supplying the people with food, instead of leaving it
He believed that it would be found that it would in the hands (.f private dealers. The Right Hon. Gentleman
have been impossible for public servants to have stated that her Majesty's Government had done all that was
shown greater ability, greater zeal, or greater success possible under the circumstances. He ( Lord G. Belittle:10
in the discharge of their arduous duties.—( Hear.) Did they did not thick so, when the people had been starved to
consider the peculiar task imposed on them, and the extent of death, and whole districts decimated, it would not satisfy him
machinery that had to be directed? Why, at the present mo- to say, that everything that was possible had been done. He
ment there were 450,000 persons employed on the public works had a letter in his pocket from the Protestant clergyman of
in Ireland—( Hear)—under the superintendence of the Beard ekibbereen, which stated that from the Ist of December to the
complained of. In September last 30 000 were employed ; in Ist of January, 140 deaths had taken place in the Skibbereen
October, 150,000 ; in November, 285,000 ; and in December, workhouse. These poor creatures stated that they had gone in
440,000. ( Hear, hear.) To expect that all officers employed there that they might die under a roof, and be buried in a
under the Board, to give effect to such large machinery, should coffin. On one Sunday there were 14 funerals waiting for
be efficient servants, was surely to hope for too much.— burial in the churchyard of that parish ; in the adjoining palish
(Hear.) lie would state the number of officers necessary : nine were waiting one Sunday ; and iu two other parishes, six
inspectors, 74 ; engineers, 36 ; assistant-engineers, 385 ; were waiting at the same time.—(Hear, hear.) It could not
clerks, 2,800 ; and overseers, 6,846 —(Hear, hear.) be said that the people had been supplied with food when such
This was the effort which had been made by the Government to scenes had occurred. In the barony of Skibbereen,
which
meet the calamity. He could understand any man who blamed contained 140,000 souls, 10,00 h
t 8 e
per
resesons had
oment perished from
en
the Government for the course which they had adopted; he famine.—(Hear, hear.) At pnt , betwe
could understand any man who should blame the Government 300,000 and 400,000 quarters of wheat were lying at the
for a deficiency of energy, and for not exerting all the power three perts of London, Liverpool, and Glasgow ; therefore,
for mitigating the calamity, but he could not understand how what had prevented her Majesty's Government from sending
any man, after having seen the gigantic efforts of the food to the west coast of Ireland to feed the starving people?
Government, should still blame them for the fact ( Hear, hear.) In 1831, when Lord Stanley supplied the
that disease and famine still prevailed in Ire- people of that country with food, he succeeded in keeping
land. There was no doubt but that disease and famine down the prices of food within reasonable rates, and if her
did prevail to a most lamentable extent, but there was as little Majesty's Ministers had done the same thing with regard to
doubt that this exertion had been greatly instrumental Indian meal now, he could not but think that they would have
in reducing the evil and relieving Ireland from the reduced the enormous profits of the retailers and forestallers,
pressure of this calamity. But they were to consider and would have prevented them from obtaining unduly high
whether this was a question which only affected Ireland, or prices. He saw that at the present moment Indian meal was
whether it applied to the whole of the British empire, and he selling at New York at three shillings a bushel, while in Liver-
should have no difficulty in answering that question. The pool and Ireland it was selling at Os. a bushel, and he thought
calamity which had spread so fearfully through England and that the Government might, under the circumstances, have
Scotland had fallen upon Ireland out of all proportion to her departed from their rigid notions of political economy, anti
resources, and he did not hesitate to say that the House would have supplied the people of the west coast of Ireland with
concur with him in the assertion that Ireland had a right to look the food which they so much needed. Then again
to England and Scotland for the help which she needed. But he he conceived that if the Ministry had encouraged the landlords
trusted that the landlords of Ireland would do their duty, and by giving the people employment in the improvement of their
he believed that the exertions of the people of England would estates, instead of the unproductive public works on which they
he somewhat in proportion to the willingness of the landlords of had been engaged, that there would have been much more
Ireland to assist their fellow-countrymen.—(Lend cheers.) benefit than had been enjoyed from the expenditure of the
He thought that there was in Ireland an improved spirit money. With respect to the compact that it was said had
springing up. In many instances a sense of discouragement been entered into between the agricultural party and the late
had come over the feelings of the landlords. They were Government, he begged to relieve her Majesty's Government
now, however, beginning to awake from their dream, of all doubt upon the subject. If there had been a compact
and to consider that Ireland was only to be saved from between the agricultural party and the late Government, it
her present disasters by the instrumentality of her own had been endangered in 1842, and it was broken in 1846; and
children. The most cordial feelings were excited in this he begged, therefore, on the part of those with whom he
country on behalf of the suffering people of Ireland, and they acted, to repudiate the existence of any such compact now.—
were willing to render them every assistance in their ( Cheers.) It was not their intention to oppose any obstacle.
power, but that assistance could not be honourably in the way of her Majesty's Ministers, in abrogating that por-
and safely given without the co-operation of the nobility tion of duty upon corn. When, however, he said that, he did
and gentry of Ireland. The Honourable Member not mean to admit that the repeal of that 4s. duty would con-
for Stroud had put a question with reference to the relief fer any benefit upon the consumer. It would occasion a loss
afforded to the destitute and infirm of the population of Ireland. in the Exchequer of between 300,000 and 400,000/. But if
The best course which the Government thought they could the Chancellor of the Exchequer thought that the
adopt was to allow the relief committees to afford the necessary u was in so flourishing a state as to spare
assistance to that class, and it was his opinion that if Parliament revenue was
he (Lord Bentinck) had no ground to complain.
had in the last session passed a poor-law similar in its nature to The fact was that the whole of that sum would go into the
of
the English poor-law, and which the Hon. 31ember seemed to pocketthose corn merchants and forestallers of whom the
think the panacea of all the evils of Ireland, still he thought -
people of Ireland had such just reason to complain—(Cheers)
that under the pressure of the accumulated distress of the coun-
try, that measure would have broken down, and he was —or into the pockets of American merchants and agriculturists.
At New York the price of wheat was 405., and at Liverpool
borne out in that opinion by the fact of the it was 80s.' and it was into the pockets of those who were
difficulty which even then existed in col- making these enormous profits that the Government proposed
lecting the rates necessary for the support to put this extra amount of 4s. a quarter duty. He thought a
of the existing poor-law in Ireland. He did not think,
better course would have been to have kept the 4s. duty and to
therefore, that the fearful state of Ireland was in any
have taken the product of it to feed the Irish people. With
way to be attributed to the non-existance of reference to the navigation laws he would not oppose any tern-
poor-law in Ireland similar to the English poor-law.
His Hon. Friend (Mr. S. O'Brien) wished to know what he poraryurthe suspensionG of ther%
tTherhekwhas onse
thciosursetlyitet open
eight
eo.veem battleelt
ships,to a ottip
had done when the poor-houses were crowded with poor.adopt,
each about: .I,soo're tons,were
They acted on the principle of entrusting the relief of the and capable of carrying at least 2,000 tons of corn,- and 'lie
poor to the local authorities—( Hear )—instead of undertaking had been informed on the authority of an able seaman
upon themselves the whole machinery of doling out food to in the British service, that if the Government would give
the people through the hands of Government officers. But him a commission, in little more than twenty-four hours he
they instructed the relief committees to exert themselves to the would take out the gun!, hatter down the boards, and caulk
utmost to . raise money for the relief of the poor, and informed the vessels, and go with them to the United States, and before
them that the Government would assist them with grants. tea weeks
had elapsed he would come back with 80,000 guar-
And here he would pause to assure the House of the great ters of corn. He was informed her Majesty's Ministers had
good that had been effected by those relief committees, the already employed, if the statements in the newspapers were
human misery they had alleviated. He was sure, if it were true, 84 ships, measuring 37,000 tons. But when they saw
in his power to lay a statement before the House of the good that there was little or no grain in the country, and that the
they had effected the House would thank them
for what people could not get what there was, because the corn mer-
they had done for the mitigation of the distresses of the chants would not sell it at a reasonable price, nothing ap-
poor. The Government began, when the distress was not so peered to him so simple a remedy for the evil, as for her
severe, by granting one-halt of whatever was railed, and 501. Majesty's Ministers to employ their line-of-battle ships
for every 1001. collected, but when the distress increased now that all danger of war was at an end, and the Montpen-
they acted upon a more liberal principle, and gave a pound for sier marriage had been settled.—(Hear, hear.) Eighty thou-
every pound raised. The House d.d not hear, and sand quarters of corn by the ships making four voyages, which
could not hear, of the multitudes that had been might be done before the next harvest could be thus procured
saved by these committees. He, in common with the other for the relief of Ireland. At that moment there were in bond
members of her Majesty's Government, felt deep sorrow that and in stock between 30,000 and 40,000 quarters of some
the famine had committed so muck havoc, but when they saw kinds of grain in the warehouses of London, Liverpool, and
rich Belgium, France, and Germany suffering from the Ares- Edinburgh and Glasgow, which, if sold, through the interven-
sure of famine, he did not believe that they would tion of the Government would no doubt lead to the reduction
feel surprised that such a country as Ireland, when it pleased of the price of grain and bring food within the reach of the
Providence, had been similarly afflicted. It was poor. He would not, however, second the Hon. Member for
almost impessible for such a state of things Limerick in any impeachment of the Government. He would
to be met adequately by Government measures. now pass on to treat the othet matters of her Majesty's
There was a retail trade fast springing up in Ireland; it was Speech. It was a matter of the greatest regret to the
necessary for the welfare of the country that it should country at large, that the recent intercourse—the recent
exist, and it would be their duty to foster and encourage policy of the Noble Lord with the King of the French, had
it. But it was utter folly to imagine that they would been on bad terms, with whom it was of the highest
be able to interfere with it, and check the price of food. The importance to this country to be on friendly terms. He was 1
relief committees established throughout the coun- glad to find the Noble Lord had protested against the Mont-
try were doing an incalculable deuree of goud, pensier marriage, and that the intercourse had now softened
Sup depots had been established in every lo- down to the correspondence he had seen in the newspapers.
cality, and the amount of human suffering relieved Be for one did not believe that the English people tusk any
was almost 'incredible. Betore he sat down he would ;repress ie rte. Montnensier affair. The English syrn;
Teter to one part of her Majesty's Speech upon which pathies did not tend that way. If the conduct or
Austria was
he felt sure the utmost anxiety prevailed—he meant a manifest violation of the treaty of Vienna, what he should
that part which referred to the state of Ireland. like to ask was the severance of Belgium from Holland ? if
Wnile famine had de,olated Ireland, it could not be denied but the Cracow business was an infrE ction of the treaty, the treaty of
that outrage existed to a sionsiderable extent ; and while the Vienna was torn to atoms when this country agreed to thesepa-
Government was disposed to meet the fearful state of ration of those countries ; and when England sent her line-
things that existed, he warned those who might be the of-battle-ships to blockade the coast of Holland whilst the
abettors of the outrages that the Government would leave French were engaged in cannonading the walls of Antwerp.
no means untried to secure the tranquillitylt was not for him to enter more fully into the merits of the
(Hear, hear.) The general state oflrelanrustroyv;—ed case. He, for one, could not so deeply sympathise with the
analysed them,
people of Cracow, and he believed, that if the truth were
an increase of outrages ; but having
known, that the people of Cracow—the well disposed, the
he found they were mainly attacks on roperty.
butthhead d
loyal people, and those who wished for peace, are greatly e-
He was glad to say that lighted- with this incorporation with a power,ul ally. Hon.
outrages had not only not increased,
all but ceased, and
old agrarian
Gentlemen might smile, but he believed that it would prove
niched ; the spirit of combination had. greatly for the advantage of that country, which now, for the
now there was no difficulty in enforcing
the offenders last sixteen years, had been in a state of continual alarm, and
offenders. There was no sympathy witthhe law against
and the juries however strongly the press of foreign countries might write,
witnesses could easily be found,
Generally through- the effect appears to be this, that the news of the ineorpora-
generally did their duty.—(Hear, hear.)
law was as tion was received by the people of Cracow with ac..
out Ireland, at the present time, the elm:nation and general illumination. With respect
egularly administered as it wasand cheer- to the other part of her Majesty's Speech, he
British empire. This was important in anty part of the
Ireland. lie trusted that the measures imposed by the Ministers
ing in the present state of things
sures that the Government intended proposing,he hoped that they
would now appeal to the returns whish Ibad been made of would fully equal the emergency. Respecting the other mea-
these he found
the crimes committed in Ireland, and, would be of such a nature as to encourage the employment of
that in the month of December, 1845
tou try amounted capital in Ireland. It was not by labour or poor employment
highway robberies committed in that I
°hid amounted
,frohme burglaries and
taxes that Ireland was to be regenerated—( Hear, hear)—it
to eighty, while in December, 1846, th,..2fw
the breaking must be by some great measure, by which capital would be in-
to the enormous number of 1,383. e'' duced to pour into the country. He hoped the measures
into houses, and the stopping of persons ,on the high
them, was an would be such as would be entitled to his suptmrt ; but
road for the purpose of taking money Ireland. Then if the Government did not introduce such a measure,
offence quite new in the annals of crimeill'inta
A hv the returns, then he gave notice that he would, at the
with regard to agrarian outrages, he Route
-Outrages corn- earliest opportunity bring forward a large and comprehensive
that in 1844, the number of agrarian 1
e ~ ,
,920 while measure for that purpose.—(Cheers.) But the Right Hon.
mitted was 2,486; in 1845 they But the most Gentleman feared that the calamity was not al
in 1846 they had been reduced to I,3wo4e.reaffecting Ireland ; it was an imperial calamity, toone httlh evil
particular circumstance of all was the su
6 who had been aid of all parties in the empire should be diverted.y' which the
e
ment had received in the punishment of te st• likely to escape Geo. Bentinck) concurred in that • (Lord
support
ppoort,which Govern-
sentiment. Her Majesty's
guilty of offences hitherto supposed to benst
of last year it had Government would have their (the rotecti •
the penalty of the law. In the autum
pthroesecbuakteersa, num- in assisting the landlords of that 13
country meeting
shops the evil that had overtaken them.—(Hear,
become the duty of Government to
If they came down to that House on a justification of hear,
e the Ir
kr iss,h h
up ehoepi 1)
ee
bee of persons for breaking i
veins! ttlhieeyesmvotruld 'have and stealing the bread. They
condemned to the heavy punishment of two Ye
all
- nplte°ade'daGrgseu. niimittlYePimriasa°nundm(wAaelnrrte: eonui °nYpmr LIU tee? vf ernity of thetas-istes
There was another charge which the
lien* of calling Parlia- sistance of the party with whom he acted , but,
S. O'Brien) had made of the Governm °
ent (Mr. Labeuchere) t me, he thought it but right to state that ' at the same
1 he • • this was an exception
ment together last autumn. Why, really the daily habit of see- to the rule, and that Irish property, of
was in Ireland at that time, and was in
iid
there was not one another, should be found to maintain theonl
erisdhescription and
ing a great number of Irish gentlemen,.t,
aven's sake, don't thought it hard that the Parliament poor. They
of them who did not say, " For lie•ne„ on yourselves." England should step in and sayyou shall
or the Government of
call Parliament together, but take the bust
's sake, call the employ the people—
Heaven you shall feed the people, while they
One and all of them said, "Do not, for ,
11 only unsettle the will make no return ot food. are engaged on works that
u WI
Parliament together, that, if you do, y? , on. Do whatever You Mr. ROEBUCK. wished to give expression to
public works which are now being caret!" aed trust to Parlia- which he thought would be of service to the House
w words
think right upon your own respoosibert
Yeverything in Ireland country. He deeply sympathised in the m• • and the
es ior Parliament to
ment for an indemnity, but do not leave ,
of Ireland. Not having heard any explanationmiseries of the people
in a state of suspense till the time aviroruivld be now highly
e Lord or his colleagnaw he warnedtho from. the Noble
sanction your measures. It which her Majesty sof altering that which shall he House against the danger
measures a mere temporary expedient into
improper to advert to those t ,_‘, before the Parlia- a permanent mischief for the country. II
Government are prepared shortly 0 we
than the question of l et was quite aware
that the sympathies of the
ment. A more comelieated question
sobtn .
itteu to their con- behalf. He knew what itPeoP e might be appealed to on their
the condition of Ireland could not b
use might entertain of
..was to come begging from Ireland.
the I 0 Alr. SMIT II O'BRIEN —Oh, oh.
sideration. Whatever judgment t w Government—and he Mr. ROEBUCK —Yes,
the course adopted by her Majes ,
Yoace the great question es, and he said it advisedly, and before
he was done he would illustrate his position by many illustrious
had no doubt that they could Members would bring to bear 1 examples. He
in a kindly spirit, and that Hon. feeling
or local jealousies—not gave great credit to the measures of the Right
wereartfee 1 Hon.-Baronet
Scotch, or I •
milt opposite (Sir R .Peel), for the measures which
upon the discussion nop
- English,.he had adopted to meet the case of Ireland while at the head
considering whether they
would deal with the subject in a spirit
they of the Administration.
n.But there was a mischief attending
Members—but that .t and right to each and all. The
as such,
a all those measures. He (Mr. Roebuck) contended that no-
and intention of what w
that the people of Ireland had
WWI . Government could propose to itself the task of feeding the
nature of the calamity
and to claim as a right, the assist-k
as a boon, .
.people. The
legitimate consequence of not admitting the
a right to as
the British people.—( Hear, hear.) force of this axiom was a fruitful source of all that cant tie-
ance and support of
who, thoughout his speech was heard tailed in the newspapers which told them that the people had a
The Hon. Gentleman, allay, then went on to say, that •
lty i the g. _
with great difficulty j.,,h Members, he did not do so
right to labour and to provisions. He denied both • • proposttions.
in speaking thus .to the -
, p tit. He hoped they would justify They could not as a Government provide labour for
in any unfriendiJ ''' slat and of the Government, by show-- or pretend to pay them for it. They had it in history that the
the exertions of Parliaemrroe
ination to leave nothing untried, no- aristocracy of Rome paid the people • and what was the con-
ing on their part a d
eetrtion omitted which might alleviate the sequence of the adoption of such a measure ? Ruin was
thing undone,
no
Clot Ireland. He was satisfied that the then, arid over would be, the inevitable consequence.
present condition
aye through Irish co-operation. In
9 He could not help pointing out the eviction which would be
could do nothing
save
ht state that he would place n brought upon this country if we were to pay the Irish people.
speakingg thus, he t g _
of relief which En land should° He was aware that in doing so he should bring harsh expres.
limit on the arrioun a
crisis, but he should be sorry to mons upon himself, but, as a duty to the people of England
afford to Ireland in suchwhich would lead •
to the belief that •
whom he represented, he was prepared to meet the obloquy
encourage any doctrine which
to rely altogether upon En 1 d.— which would thus attach to him, and to say that the people of
Ireland for the future
own children would not exegrtatnhe Ireland should not be paid at the expense of the people of
(Hear, hear.) If their England. For one year, or for any specified period, he would
greatest injury could not fail to be In-
selves manfully, the done, contribute all he possessed to maintain the people of Ireland
~, reland call with more justice than
for on whom come' - , for that space, but it was a permanency that they had now to
meal? He hoped they would • come to the
on her own count
in one - meet. Last ear th anticipated the famine, and the Right
matters,common spirit. When the
discussion of these Government Hon. Baronet (Sir K. Peel) to whom he begged to express
i.
f her Maesty ' were laid before the •
measures o his gratitude, did all he could to prevent the mischiefs which
then be aisle to judge hew far
House they would . they would might accrue from that famine. It had come again this year,
igencies of Ireland, and ho
meet the present ex w far they would and it was aggravated because of the knowledge that
rmanently th
go towards improving Pe in feu condition of that coun- England would provide food for every brawling
try by preventing
the
recurrenceFNTlNCK future of such disasters. demagogue who wanted to exacerbate the misery of
Lord GEORGE B - then rose, He said—ln his countr It was known that England would come forward
answer to the eloquent speech which had been made by now as she% had done, and England was prepared to meet any
the Right Hon. Gentleman who. had just resumed his seat, he possible contingency of a temporary nature, but he protested
could assure him, he believed, in the name of all the parties on againstpermanent provision for the Irish people. And now
that side of the House that it_ was not their intention, and that a word aabout Irish landlords. Ile had no doubt that what he
shey had no desire to make Ireland the battle field of party. He might say would excite bitter feelings against him. Let not
and his friends were deeply sensible, that her Alajesty's Minis- his lion. Friend (Mr. Bernal) be at all hurt at the notion.
ters had been brought to the governmentl of Ireland under (Mr. Brnal made some observation which did not reach the
circumstances of peculiar difficulty. _Meer.) They felt that 'all .y ) That was an Irish landlord of a sudden.—
they had some share in putting them in pos3ession of the reins of gallery.)
egrbier.) Those, said the Hen. Gentleman with greeat_erm.-
rish government at a period of the session. and so shortly phasic, pointing towards Mr. Bernal—those were the Irish
efore this calamity came upon Ireland, that they have not. landlordssjP for whom the British Parliament had been egissta
tieg
Ministers,: and to deal leniently with They had been legislating again he
such matters with which fot 300 years.
• the last The
had fair play in dealing with thelreland, and for their own personal purposes:
difficulties
which press people of
upon that country.—(Che,erswith the aid of the British Parliament,
). And for these rea- of Ireland,
sons he felt that it was due fromlandlordsinflicted great mischief on the people of that country. The
them to look with
an indulgent eye upon tie, measures of her Majesty's Irishlandlord built cottages on his estate fit only for paupters_
they did not altogether concur. It .
that he might get a per centage from the wan of
would b • Ice quite unneces- in order
sary for him to state that he deeply sympathised with the ee• nor law in Ireland he would not
ls- them. It there were a
proper p
I• h 1 dl 1d d tiot do this
tresses which had visited Ireland, and that they heartily• d do o lie had been told that the ris an ort t_
housed for
,
in the concern which her Majesty had ea mes,edoi.jottleat ,
butsl he had done it, and built house uponh useHef
had
country, and that they should be prepared tolgive the calamity au er population for whom he had done nothing.
all sort of
and the measures proposed to relieve it, their g ' P P leg'slated far by the House of Commons, and, .
earnest attention. beenanted to hiss by Act of I arharnent.
But, at the same time, they should be expectedpeal • leges had been ge
to privileged
frankly, and whilst they Were not disposed to say

. a ..+-.1a....•,.---- _
T ...
But he-he' el taken advantage of all that had been done for him, that he had given up sarcasm and had taken to satire, but he
and had reduced the people of Ireland, by listening to their should recollect that oiliness of language, and silkiness of ex-
cravings for land, to a paupered population, spreading over the pression, would not answer for soundness of argument, and he
whole land. After centuries of legislation, such was the eon- 1 would mention that even the polish of a shield would be lost
dition of the people of Ireland. He would ask the people of ' when oil and vinegar dropped neon it. The Hon. Gentleman
England if they were prepared, not only to maintain the land- had styled the .Irish landlords a, beggars, but they only de-
lords of Ireland, as well as their paupers, that they had mended justice. The Hon. elerifoer for Bath had alluded to
created. He would say that it was the duty of the people history, and the King of France, as he called him, had he read
of England, and, he would add, the representatives of the the speech of that King ? if he had, be would see that the
people of England, to insist that the landlords of Ireland should French Government, although tee feeding the population, had
maintain the people of that country. He was prepared to vote taken care to obtain a supply t;l' food for the pt ople f 1 nrff the
for the people of Ireland the fullest equality of rights and laws, ports of Ooessa anti other parts there coin was tobe,obtained.
and to sanction the Government in every endeavour to secure Why was it that the Government of this country bad not, also,
the peace and welfare of Ireland. If the House of Commons taken the same step with regard to the purchase of food. In
was prepared to give them frill and equal freedom, and allow the port of Odessa there was 150,000 quarters of wheat left
them, if they desired it, to govern themselves, he would be behind by the French, why was it that there were only six
quite reconciled. But he would not go beyond this. But he British vessels in that pert ? It was.a gross neglect upon the
could tell the landlords of Ireland how he would be prepared part of the Government. There was al.() plenty if corn at
to act. They were going to ievise the Poor-law. Now there. New York waiting for ,leps, none were to be qbtained. The
was a clause which limited the operation of the Statute to Government had their experimental fleet !Wing about, and
England and Wales. He would simply alter it to say, " Eng- their pennons floating with every breeze, why del they. not
land; Wales, and also Ireland." That was all he would ask to freight them with the precious cargoes of food for the suffering
be done.—( Hear, hear). He would have this Act, of people. Government had proposed to admit molasses for the
which they had heard so much the law of Eli. purposes of distillation, why did they not couple
zelseth—extended to Ireland.—(Cries of ' Hear, hear.") with that m.'asure a prohibition to lee barley? The Hon.
He would even be prepared to give the people of Ireland the Member for Bath had thought fit to atts.ek the Hon. Member
same number of representatives as England—( Hear, hear)— for Dublin, who was absent ;ho (Mr. Grattan) had no doubt
he meant the same number in proportion to the population ; th it he would be able to defend hims if from the charges
but he would also at the same time extend to them the same brought against. him. He would, howevee, tell the Hon.
taxation.—(Hear, hear.) He would have no reservation Alen:tier fur Bah that there was a great part: in Ireland, who
when this were done ; he would settle with the people of Ire- were handed together to remove the cause of universal misery
land, but be was not prepared to support any measure that aiel distress wliicl. had sunk all classes, and demoralised the
would tax the hard-working, peace.loving, law-obeying country ; and while we are engaged in this noble cause we
people of England in support of a rude system of anarchy, in regret to find Hon. Gentlemen, %olio, like the Hon. Member
that which was culled the sister kingdom.—(Hear, hear. ) for Bath, came like an evil spirit to blast al! their endeavours,
It had been stated by an Irish representative the other day and to sow dissension among their ranks by the introduction of
that the support proposed to be given to Ireland was to buy angry topics of religious diff.,teners. He trusted that the
Protestants in that country. Such was the way in which the lion. Men ber for Dublin would let his constituents know that
exertions of this country had been treated. Ireland wanted a the Irish Members, as a body, were all agreed that they would
representative—a man that really understood her in- not follow the advice, and least of all the example., of the Hon.
terests, and was disposed to promote her welfare— Niernber for Bath ; and that all considerations of party are
(Hear, hear)—not a man who was actuated by feelings lost in the great national calamity._-( Cheers.) As
of personal interests, of personal pelf, and of party ascendancy, an Irish Member he deprecated the Government
chofprihni!
and to merge them all in advancing the interests of the people country on principles of political eeonomy, he
of Ireland. They had not got such a man as the wants of eiples to the wind When starvation and death were staring
Ireland required, but they had grit a man who had done every- the people in the face, were they to die upon principles of
thing in his power to exaggerate the prejudices and excite the political economy ? The commissariat officers had become
passions of his countrymen.—(Hear, hear.) It was such a embued with those principles, and hail gene so far as to distil-
man that presumed to be the representative of the people ; bute quotations from Ada.a Smith and from the Bible. The
though he did not think he reflected aright the character of letters of Mr. Trevellian were better adapted for souse of
Irishmen, for he (Jr. Roebuck) considered those in the Scott's historical romances than fdr the Government of any
union an honest people.—(Hear, hear.) But he wanted to nation. The employment which the Government had given
hear from the Government what they might expect to follow under the Labour-rate Act was a mockery. In the county of
hereafter. Was this system of relief to last for ever? Mayo the wages of the labourer was only 4d. a day, and meal
Because an evil has afflicted Ireland, are 8,000,000 to come was now 3s. Sd. per stone—a quantity equivalent to the sup-
crawling beggars craving the support of the people of port of a family for two days. The Government, by their
England, and exercise no energy and ability in order to do acts, were employing officers of the army in distributing a
something for themselves? From beginning to the end halfpennyworth of bread and some treacle to the poor unfor-
, there was nothing but a cry of sympathy for the tunate devils who were starving in Ireland. He hoped, if the
charity of the people of England. England was like union was to continue, that it would of
simply be a
ifedera foal
or
a benevolent lady in a parish, the policy she was pursuing a parchment union,
but a union of sentiment, having its
created around her a host of paupers.—(Hear, hear.) They object the promotion of the benefit of the whole nation.
could not go beyond the passing benevolence they had hitherto Mr. D. BROWNE said he should not have risen to address
been in the habit of manifesting. To maintain eight millions the house but for the speech of the Hon. Member for Bath,
of people was totally impossible. He called on the Noble Lord who had given way to the ascerbity of his waspish disposition,
at the head of the Government to show how it was possible to and maligned the landlords of Ireland. He trusted, however,
maintain eight millions of people by any Government regula- that his sentiments would not be responded to by any Hon.
tions. The great moving principle of the social system was Member, so that Ireland might not have that addition to her
private, individual interest, and if they dislocated the machine, present affliction. The Hon. Member for Bath had reproached
it would be impossible for society to go on.--( Hear, hear.) the Irish landlords with being beggars. But if they were beg.
He called on the Noble Lord not to yield to the clamour of gars, they had been reduced to their present condition in con-
his Irish supporters, but to legislate for the people sequence of the evil government of their country by the
of three kingdoms, and not for the advantage of one, and let English Parliament, and if they would restore to
him stand out and support the great principle that the people the people of Ireland their own native Legislature, and those
to be maintained, must maintain themselves.—( Hear, hear.) funds which they had contributed towards the liquidation of the
If he departed from this rule, there would be no limit to the national debt of England, they would be ready to provide out
dire calamities that would ensue. He knew how he would be of those funds for the present contingency, and place Ireland
met by Irish Members—he would be told of starving men, and in a position which would prevent any English legislator from
of women and children dying from want of food. He did not stating that they were obliged to approach the Parliament in en
require to be told of these things to excite his commisseration attitude of supplication. He was sorry that the Hon. Member
—he knew it all; and he traced it, all to the conduct of the for Limerick ( Mr. S. O'Brien) bad disturbed the unanimity
Irish landlord himself; abetted, no doubt, as he had which had subsisted between the friends of Ireland;
been by the Parliament of England by the course of but he trusted that neither the Government nor
Legislature it had pursued. But he (Mr. Roebuck) the Noble Lord at its head, nor the party of
would give the Irish people an English poor- which the Noble Lord opposite (Lord G. Bentinck)
law, and give them equal laws and privileges. He was quite was also the head, nor the party represented by the Hon. Ba-
prepared for the consequences of this step. The Irish landlords ronet the Member for Tamworth would join in the senti.
had their estates deeply mortgaged, and the consequence ment—that Ireland was a curse to this country.—(Hear.) He
would be that nine out of every ten of them would be swept agreed in one part of the argument of the Hon. Gentleman
out.—(Hear, hear.) But the mortgagees would have to step (fir. S. O'Brien), namely, that the Government ought to
in and take all: the consequences of their position. They had have called the Parliament together two or three months ago,
power to take the burdens upon themselves. mud to submit to to consider the state of Ireland ; for, although the means
the same arrangements as the English landlords. This was within the adoption of the Government might last sear have been
all he would say to the House and the Noble Lord, on the mea- sufficient to sneer the (tooth ge,ney, it ty,s ii sufficient at the
sem es relief proposed by the Government. As to the tempo- present period. There must, however. be energy against the
rary measure of opening the ports he was prepared to support it, landed gentry of Ireland. Testy neer resole some of their
only it ought to have been done two months ago. He did not large rentals to stimulate the indu,try of the people
think it would do much, if any good now, but he was willing by providing for their profitable employment—( Hear,
to support it now in order to express his sympathy with the hear) and the first act passed by the British
people of Ireland, though he had none with the landlords. He Legislature with respect to Ireland, ought to be one
did not believe that the opening of the ports would increase the entitling a right of the tenants to relief from the landowners,
supply of grain.—( Hear, hear) He did not think there was on whose property they lived. It was the best tax he thought
much surplus corn to be found anywhere either in Europe or which could be imposed upon the landed proprietary, but me
America. Neither did he think that much good would arise dependently of this he admitted that at this time there was
from allowing the use of sugar and molasses in breweries and occasion for the Government to extend a helping hand to
distilleries, though he would not object to the measure, as he Ireland.
was of opinion that the rise of these articles in the manner Mr. BEBNAL OSBORNE wished, as a landlord, to ad-
named, should be allowed at all times. But when he asked dress a few observations to the House, but in the outset he
what' they intended to do for Ireland, he could get no satisfac- wished to warn Irish Members that if they took the Hon.
tory explanation. The Noble Lord who last addressed them Member for Bath to their bosom they would find him like the
(Lord George Bentinck), spoke of a grand comprehensive " toad in the ear of Eve"— (Laughter)—and although the
scheme which he had in view. He (Mr. Roebuck) was Hon. Member for Mayo (Mr. D. Browne) deprecated the at-
excited when the Noble Lord thus spoke. He expected to tack of the Hon. Member for Bath, he followed up his state-
hear some great plan in connexion with which the ment, by adding, that the landlords of Ireland had neglected
Noble Lord was about to come forward as the their duty. He (Mr. B. Osborne) had done his best to
regenerator of his country. He certainly expected to mould his conduct like that of his neighbours.
hear of some grand panacea, some great discovery like the Mr. D. BROWNE said he spoke of the past.
gun-cotton, but patiently and intently as he had listened, he Mr. B. OSBORNE thought it unnecessary to refer to the
had heard nothing that he could understand as to the course conduct of Irish Members during the past. They were au inn-
he proposed. He hoped that the next time, when the Noble proving body, which would be proved if the Hon. Gentleman
Lord got up to criticise others he would condescend to en- came to move for an account of the many acres of turnips
lighten them on his new plan—what he intended proposing raised, the number of duels fought, and the number of plouglia
should he become the Chancellor of the Exchequer.—(Loud set to work in the county of Mayo.—(Hear, and laughter.)
cries of " Hear, hear.") He (Mr. Roebuck) had been much They had the prosperity of their county at heart. The speech
disappointed : he had heard no proposition to meet the of the Queen, which would be transmitted to Ireland by the
starving condition of the people o: Ireland, come from next post, was certainly of a cheering character, as they
the Noble Lord.—(Hear, hear ) He was in a different were told that disorder had been suppressed by the military
position to the Noble Lord. He represented no party, whereas and the police ; whereas Ireland was like a heleagured city
the Noble Lord did. The Noble Lord was at the head of a without food, which, he apprehended, el-,arity of the benevolent
party in the House ; certainly not a powerful party, yet still could not adequately have provided against. These outrages
a party; and he (Mr. Roebuck), therefore, did think that it i were only to be repressed by pouring in food. The Chancellor
was the duty of the Noble Lord to explain his scheme what he 1 of the Exchequer had stated yellow meal could be reduced to
would be prepared to cm, were he ...11..d i. ve tie toe state lee. ,„, ere-, t.... eel it was seletie in Ireland at 2s. ad. and
physician.—(Laughter.) He was not yet called in, and if he 2s. 10d. per stone. He was at a loss to know why the Noble
(Mr. Roebuck) were allowed to prophecy, he was nut likely Lord did not issue an order in Council four months ago sus-
to be. Still, he should have told the House what pending the corn-laws. It was too late to open the ports stow,
his grand panacea was to be.—( Hear, hear.) lie as France had anticipated them. It was too late to do so in
did not expect much from that quarter, and he January, when the people were starving, Something ought to
would now address himself to the established parties be done immediately to pour food into Ireland, or Ire.
in the House, to the parties headed by the Noble Lord and the land would become one vast charnel-house. The Dean
Right Hon. Baronet. He „hoped that no Ministry would be of Cashel had stated that 5,000 had died from starvation.
led away by the mischievous belief that it was possible for Go- The Speech he considered was not a speech conveying the real
vernment to frame measures to maintain the people. The sentiments of the Government, but of some political recusants
business of Government was the protection of life and pro- in the Treasury who pulled the strings.
perty, and the rest should be left to private enterprise. If Sir R. INGLIS said that he was anxious to say a few words
they transgressed this rule, mischief must be the inevitable re- in answer to the speech of the Hon. Member who had lately
suit, and Ireland would continue as it had hitherto been, the addressed the House. He did so, because he solemnly (be-
curse of England. He believed that if they were to consider lieved that the charge made against his friend, Mr. Treveyllan,
their policy, and to frame their Acts as statesmen, they would was one which proceeded from total ignorance upon the sub.
do all that it lay in their power to do, and all that as statesmen ject. Mr. Treveyllan bad been described as inimical to Ire-
they were called upon to do ; and with this remark he would land. Now, to his (Sir R. Inglis) certain knowledge, if he bad
take leave of this part of the subject, and turn to another, on a fault it was that of being too partial to that country.—(Hear.)
which he was desirous of expressing his opinion. And he did That gentleman had taken upon himself, not only official, but
this now, as he was aware that an explanation was hereafter to personal duties in order the better to promote those measures
be made by the Ministers of the Crown, and he did not wish to which were considered of a beneficial character.-(Hear.)
mix himself up with the dispute which that explanation would The Hon. Member for Mayo began to speak with some appre-
be sure to excite. He took it, that to preserve hension that the expression of Ireland's being a curse to Eng-
peace, was of the greatest moment not only to England, land, would have a most injurious effect upon the people of
but to all the world, and his desire, therefore, was that country, and he
appealed to my Noble Friend the Member
that peace might be preserved with France, but with for Lynn, and my Hon. Friend the Member for Tamworth,
all the nations of the earth, and he therefore trusted that no and my Noble Frieud the Prime Minister, and hoped that
man, to serve any idle purposes of his own, would disturb the they would not concur in such a sentiment. His own memory
peace of the world. It was evident that he was referring to did not inform him that such an expression was made use of,
the late transactions in Spain respecting the marriages of two and he had asked three Hon. Members their recollection of the
young ladies—the Queen of that country and her sister, the fact, and they ali agreed with his.
Infanta. With that matter, as he took it, they, as English Mr. R. D. BROWNE.—You misunderstand me. I totally
politicians, had nothing to do; but he regretted to find that deny it.
the Noble Lord the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs had Sir R. INGLIS.—WeII then we must leave the difference
thought proper to interfere. He trusted, however, that by to be settled elsewhere.—(Great laughter.) The Hon. Gen..
recalling his Lordshi i's attention to the true objects of political tleman then continued, it certainly was not the most courteous
controversy, that the mischief would be obviated. He would method of contradicting him which bad been taken; for it was
remind him, therefore, that, as statesmen, they had nothing open to the Member sor Mayo, when he had concluded, to
whatever to do with the correspondence that might have eine- make a formal disavowal. and he protested against the use-
nated from the Chateau d'Eu. They had nothing to do with of such intemperate language.—( Hear, hear.) He hoped that
persons; all they. had to do with was that which had passed the Hon. Member for the University of Dublin, and the
between the Ministers of one country and another ; nor did he Member for Meath, did not represent the concentrated wisdom
consider that the private feelings of Ministers should interfere of the united Irish party, for he could not hope that much
in the settlement of national questions. He did not blame the good would result from such a ureon.—( Hear, hear.) He
present Government, or desire that the Ministers of the entirely deprecated the principle upon which this claim for Irish
Crown should take notice of these matters ; but still he felt relief was a tvocated. It was a claim made upon their justice,
bound to call their attention to the constitutional rights of and not upon their sympathy, it was a claim of right, and not
Europe, and, in doing this, he would repeat that he of compassion, it is a claim of so much debt of pounds, shillings,
conceived that, as politicians, they had nothing whatever to do and pence, and not of charity. -He denied the claim
with the private correspondence of private individuals. In thus made altogether, while he would cordiall
making these observations he wished it to be understood that recognise it, if it were made on the principle
he did not make them under the impulse of those peculiar of Christian feeling. The hon. Member for Bath had made
principles respecting monarchical institutions which he was a speech, which was full of his accustomed sarcasm and acute
supposed to hold.—( Hear, hear.) The sentiments he was reasoning, which, however, in his opinion, was not founded
uttering were spoken as the sentiments of a monarchical states- on the soundest principles. He regarded the claim as aeeystee
mao. it appeared that the Noble Lord at the head of the matic attempt to impose upon the people of England,
Wales,
Foreign Department had taken some umbrage at the marriage and Scotland, the exclusive burden of supporting the people of
which had been eontracted by the Infanta of Spain with the Ireland; and his speech served to vary the uniformity of the
Duke :of Montpensier, and a long correspondence had been debate, for the first seven speeches might have adorned the old
laid on the table upon that subject and the marriage of her Parliament House of Ireland as a specimen of entire attention
sister, the Queen of Spain. He did not wish to be a critic, to Irish affairs. Not one word had been said of another part
but he must say that nothing could be more cumbersome, of the empire, which had been suffering elually, and with
queer, or unsightly, or give greater evidence of the most enduring patience.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
an unpractised hand than that correspondence.—(Laugh- He thanked Members on both sides for that cheer, as it re-
ter.) He did not wish to be a critic of words, cognised the claim of Scotland upon their attention. The
but a eritic of fact.—(Renewed laughter.) It appeared that people of that country, it was true, had not a united Scotch
the Noble Lord, from some small pique of his own, objected to party, they were patient in their own country, and were not
the succession of the issue of the marriage of the Infanta of clamorous out of it—(Hear, hear)—and he trusted that they
Spain with the Duke of Montpensier. He did not exactly see would not be forgotten. He fully agreed that the question of
the necessity or the policy of discussing the marriage of a young the marriages in Spain was not one in which the Secretary
prince of twenty-six_, or its issue, by a person of the grave would be able to carry the people of England with him. He
appearance of his Lordship. He thought it rather out of considered that the treaty of Utrecht had been violated, but
place.—(Laughter.) He trusted that the Noble Lord would its violation, in his opinion, was not a just cause for involving
not suffer any private pique or personal umbrage to interfere the people of England in a war. He believed that it was not
with his duties as a Minister of the Crown. The Noble Lord the intention of any of the contracting parties in that treaty
dependedon the peace of Utrecht. But what was the effect of that any descendant of Philip the Fifth should ever sit on the
the peace of Utrecht? He denied that it in any way affected throne, which intention was evident loom the expression_aa
the case on the present occasion. By that treaty the Duke of Philip, who said that that treaty should be like the point o!__.
Orleans and the Duke de Berri had severally renounced for needle, eternally fixed in one direction, and the/of:Lb, Yet,
themselves and their successors the title to the Crown of Spain. sidered that the Treaty of Utrecht had bee 7
Bolingbroke was at that time our physician, and M. Toussin at the same time, he would again statues,ifitedhant
acted for France, and at that time Bolingbroke had insisted on eider that the Government would be
lie
would
say
one word
lyinontge"-the
this particular article of the treaty. To this Toussin had ob- country in a war.—( Hear, bear.
jetted, but at length told Bolingbroke he might take it, for the with reference to the
L nn that, because illuminations
two Dukes could not bind their successors. This was an evident with the Noble 51embernn inelei
ndvi
od
d that at a time when it was occupied
truism, but the Noble Lord seemed to have forgotten that had taken pace_ there, m
subjfecorthO_eryr...,racow. He could not agree
th °two nearest Powers were ready to throw their
maxim so useful in private as well as in public affairs, by th
that
. h E peror of Austria, with the certainty.
that " sufficient for the day is the evil thereof," but had been also, h
into it, that the people of Cracow were so degraded as
eejsoice in their degradation. He trusted that the evils
God, be turned to good ac , ti
willing to excite a disturbance where no disturbance was ne-
taormri
which had overtaken Ireland, and which were inevitable
interests of the people whochoutindtboarnne
their sufferings in such an admirable manner.—(Cheere.)
opinion. But the great offender was M. Guizot, athnoelil
poorte ultimatelywould,b y
a thedr aOOO mercy
th
oo f
Lord JOHN MANNERS ventured to offer a few °beers.
Noble Lord could not touch Guizot, and so fell upon
ht,
cur-
pr.ncesses of Spain. Even if the Noble Lord wgereoirtif
moop
was
req was a Ger- vations to the House. He would offer a suggestion or two to
cumstances were so changed that the treaty
there
Bavaria, no her Majesty's Ministers since they were so desirous of bene-
rative. At the time that treaty woes made King
ofn Belgium, and even no fiting the people of Ireland, who were suffering so severely
manic empire, but there was
King of Greece, no King
King of the French. Thus the state f Europe had from the misfortunes which had overtaken them. The Go.
been entirely altered, and all the most
addistinguishedalways
s writers
annulled
n,and
ve eo rr n m en t
alalso
to
proposed
suspend to susperide the small duty now levied in
h
on international law, had agreed that a waroperation of the navigation
a treaty, and that it bad become inoperative unless specially laws. Now he was of opinion that such a course would not
renewed, and that, too, in specific terms, for general terms lead to much practical good. It must be known by every
E
would not answer the purpose. The Noble Lord might have Member of that House that many other states of urope
recollected that a breach of this treaty, as he understood it, sufferingwere
had been committed by Louis XV., who married the Infanta ofprohibited the exportation from a deficiency of food, and had actually
Spain, and even by the present King of the French, who mar- Government of cern. He thought the
of this country ought to have dune
ried a Princess of Sicily, both being descendants of the con- something of a similar kind. Within the last
tracting parties to the treaty of Utrecht. Again he would
ten days he had learned that no less than twenty-seven vessels
simply call to their minds the circumstances which occurred had been freighted in this country with English corn at the
when Louis XIV. attempted to interfere with the succession to very time when a great portion of the English people were
the English throne. On that occasion the people rose as one suffering from a deficiency. Such a state of things should not
man, and he trusted those circumstances would prevent any. be permitted to continue. Beyond these observations he
mischievous intermeddling—any personal pique, from breakin r
the peace of the world. He would sit bydoep'it(ilue, g would contvnt himself with calling the attention of the House
reference to the Spanish
merely express- to a despatch of Mons.
ing a hope that Parliament would interfere to prevent the people marriage, which was Gated Fze'bt. 21'7' 546. The despatch was
of England from being burdened for the support of the Irish in reference to the candidates for, the hand of the Queen of
poor, or the peace of the world from being disturbed by any Spain, in which it was stated that the Son of Don Carlos was
small minded pique of the Noble Lord.
Mr, IL 011_,ArrA out of the question. In another passage it is further stated
N §aid that the Ho. Member had said' that the French Government had done everything
.1s