The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-20 00:00:00

care, in its administration, still he firmly believed that to that
poor-law, and to ;he suppression of vaarancy and mendicancy,
ss, t. skit asterir.ed ths
sur,ory E.,A,ana, was one great reason why inctuitry,
trade, tr.d commerce, had been so successful in this country.--
( Hear, hear.) He confessed he telt great difficulty in intro'
during !he measure at the present time, but he did so in order
to effect the future improvement of Ireland.—(Cheers.)
Mr. LEFROY, who rose amid loud cries of " Divide," 531'
that after the speech they had heard from the Noble Lord, ne
felt it his duty to make some observations to the House Witu
respect to the deputation which had waited upon his Lordships
He, and the others, who formed that deputation, did not think
they were asking too much in requesting him to give some at"'
tentron to the resolutions which they were instructed to planes
before him. And before he told the House what the result re
that interview was, he would take the liberty of reading the
recommendation of the. Poor-law Commissioners to the Goveras
ment.—(Loud cries of Oh, oh," and much confusion.) Ynti
having alluded so far—( Cries of " Oh, oh," " Divide, divide',
and marks of impatience)—the Hon. Member proceeded to rein.
from the report, but so much confusion prevailed, that the non'
Member's voice was scarcely audible. Having thus alluded to
the Poor .law Commissioners, he would proceed to state what Were
the opinions of many gentlemen.—( Cries of Divide, dirige j
oh, oh," and a variety of noises from all parts of the House"
What, said Dr. Doyle.—( Oh, oh.) He was sorry to trel,Pj,
upon the patience of the House.—( Increased confaso,s,°''
He had a duty to perform, and he trusted they would allow air)
a hearing.—( Criss of "Divide, divide," and "Oh, 011`,4
The Hon. Member here read several of these opinions, LI.,
statement of which was quite inaudible, and then proceeded "'
say, that if such be the case in Ireland, could they, unless till,
adopted other measures, confer the the relief required, all!‘sa
there were great applications for relief, there would be d?.7.„71
the number if they adopted the proposition of the Noble .
( Cries of " Oh, oh," and " Hear, hear.") He would MT::
that this law could never he carried out without a great 111 TI,
tary lorce, and he would rather that a tax was levied On w 1
landlords of Ireland.—( Cries of "Divide, divide," and etc
•
confusion, and " Chair, chair.") If the Noble Lord were
press this matter, he would be gutting the throats of the ho;
of property.—(Loud cries of "Divide," and " Hear, hear'
The Hon. Gentleman then recurred to the opinions which
been expressed upon the Bill. Here there was sufficient!„,
thority for the opposition that had been expressed.--(1)!tsg
dive, and Hear, hear.) Lord Devon's Commission exp,
the same thing.—(Oh, oh.) Now, he would ask of the No;
Lord to reconsider t his question—(Renewed confusion)—f,,%l
objections were not founded upon any opinions of his. The
were no schemes of his,. and before this law was passe° if
would ask of the Noble Lord to give them power over that
property, and to give them a supplementary Act to pree,f,,a
that subdivision of tenan: cy which had been the ruin of Ire„,,,'"
by legislation.-- ( Renewed confusion.) He would ask aa°""-„ •
pro'
perty and request another boon, and that was, that all ~
perty in Ireland should be made to share the hardean'''
( Divide, divide.) There was at the present time large W.
tunes made in Ireland, and if facilities were to be gisen:l
business—if the great towns were to be improved--if asfi, •
was to have fair play in one way it ought to have it in anota''.'
—( Renewed confusion.) The country was becoming oit •
lised, and there ought to be some measures proposed for aar
rying that civilisation into all parts of it.—(Fresh airs •
of " Divide, divide," and " Question, question.") He
not wish to press on the patience of the House.--0-#o;#
of " Divide, divide," and " Chair.") There was so ns,s
confusion in the House that it was almost impossible to
the Hon. Member's observations. He gave her Majesty's
vernment credit for being actuated by the best motives, bati
desired that they should introduce other measures which D'"
been recommended by commission upon commission. The
elusion of the Hon. Gentleman's speech was lost amid 10'1'
cries for " Division."
Mr. ROSS, who was almost inaudible in the gallery frit
the loud noise which prevailed in the House, was understood
say that he would vote for the Government on the PI:
sent occasion, although he was not willing
give his unqualified support. He believed, howevery_li
the Government were bound to try every measure in
to remedy the calamity which had befallen Ireland. The_ta
periment was a perilous one. In his opinion four acres
now be insufficient to support a family, for he believed Ilia
would require ten acres, by reason of the potato failure.
would not lend the Government his support upon the Prl,7i,
occasion, were it not that with the measure they had p,
occasion, •
duced others mitigatory of the evils likely to:attend it; and„,Wbt
this feeling he would vote against the amendment of the "
Hon. Gentleman.
01
Sir H. W. BARRON said that this question was one
tel
the most vital importance to Irish proprietors, and hetras,„,
therefore that the House would allow him to make one'ors:s.t
observations. If the House would s How him he would
its attention to certain returns which he held in his band
returns which (although he gave every credit to Goverew44
for the care and attention they had exhibited in the fra.,, ty
of this measure) would he was afraid prove that their eaPeLa
tions were likely to be disappointed. The Hon. Baronet si7h
went into a lengthened calculation to show that if England, fat
a rental of 62,000,0001. per annum was rated 5,000,000" I 0
the maintenance of 1,500,000 paupers, Ireland, with onl,
rental of 13,000,0001., and a pauper population of 2,300,er;
would, at the rate of 7s. 6d. each person, be charged a° ot
than 5,000,060 f., an amount which he felt convinced could
be yielded by the country. It was not, however, his rater
tion to vote against the Ministry, although he could Isot,,',ss
teal his fears that their anticipations of the good that Wow" ""
suit from this measure were too sanguine. ot a
Mr. FITZGERALD next addressed the House, but oos
sentence reached the gallery. We understood him to SO t
hha
when the religious houses had been suppressed in Ireland' a,
43d of Elizabeth, or what was commonly termed the Eng
Poor-law, ought to have been introduced into that country.
Mr. SHAW replied. He would not detain the House logsii
He merely wished to say, in reply to one remark of the 141,°0woi
Lord, that by giving in-door relief the unemployed wookloo,
come for it, but be stimulated to depend on their own exeillios
but by giving out-door relief they would come for it, and
all self-reliance, and thus become entirely dependent ""

. poor-rates. -
The Committee then divided, when there appeared—
For the clause..... .l, 242
Against it......... ..

Majority for the clause 206
The House then resumed.
The CHAIRMAN reported progress, and obtained lee" °
sit again on Monday, to consider the remaining clauses of the
Bill.
THE PRISONS BILL AND THIS CUSTODY OF
OFFENDERS BILL
were, on the motion of Sir G. GREY, read a second time and
ordered to be committed.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at a Quarter before One o'clock.

((AIL WAY COMMITTEES.

(YESTERDAY.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
GROUP I.
merits 4
The Select Committee appointed to consider the men
the Bills comprised in this Group re-assembled in Room 1!"
at the usual hour this morning; Lord Granville Somerset 01
the chair.

NORTH =NT LINE.
fro Stroud
Mr. Bidder's evidence was continued. The lineßochaf
to Chilham was an extension of the Gravesend and
.a_._
ter line. It would cross the Medway on a railway bridge'
and extend on to Halstowe, where it branched off to Sher'
ness, crossing the Swale on a wooden bridge. —lllery alga
from Halstowe the line entered a tunnel of 400 yards,
skirted the north side of Sittingbourne, then reached Fat'Ll
ham, and terminated in junction with the existing line P 714
Ashford to Canterbury at the Chilham station. There nc,j,
be a station at Rochester, Chatham, Strood, Milton, IV
stowe, Faversham, and a variety of road-side statioJ* AO
the present line the distance from London to CanterborY„,lo
80 miles; it would be reduced by the new line to 60 Sdat
and 7 furlongs. There was no doubt, in an engineering)
of view, the South-Eastern line was far superio!,,,toos
Brighton line. The Brighton lines encountered clguchie 10
at Boughton-Mil which it would be almost iiiiikOs'Ltitiv
overcome. Ttitse difficulties were avoided by the gal
Eastern line. There were two tunnels on the Brightollo
from Maidstone to Canterbury, one 2,955," and the
1,478 yards in length. The gradients were extremely se_fiefi
while the line, as from London to Canterbury, was two 50—
shorter than the South-Eastern (North Kent) line.
THE ESTIMATES.
The estimated cost of the line from 'London to 801
was 70,0001., and from Lewisham to
.Croydon, 142_„' 10'
The estimated cost of the line from Strood to Chilh9lool,
chiding the branch to Sheerness and Faversham, was 965: 00
The estimated cost of the line from Maidstone to ChaP,nodi
414,0001. The estimated cost of the Maidstone and Otity
as an integral line was 275,000/. • the estimated cost 040
Dartford branch was 84.0001., and the estimated cost ° to
Mitt Kent, from the junction with the Dartford BraneoPook
Maidstone, Paddock-wood, and Tonbridge, was 1,016%0 d
making a grand total of 2,966,000/. The total estinifil
the Brighton Company for these lines was 1,900,0001. is§
This closed Ali% Bidder's examination in chief. 11A/0e
cross-examined at some length by Mr. Talbot, but his°
evidence remained unshaken.