The Sun.
London, England, 1849-10-12 00:00:00

,:si; 4 4"*. •
.rAt.
e 7 OCTOBER 12, 1849.

the proposed alteration at the Pest office, and he
found but one feeling of opposition expressed re-
specting it. He biTlieved nothing would tend
more to retard that improvement which had
taken place in his time, as to the observ-
ance of the Sabbath, than the introduction
of a measure which should convey to the public
mind that the Government sanctioned a desecra-
tion of the Sabbath. Such a measure and such an
impression would interfere withill the efforts of others
to induce the people of this country to keep holy the
Sabbath day. He could speak with great confidence
of the beneficial results that had arisen from closing
the public-houses in the eastern parts of London on
the Sunday, and he felt satisfied that the proposed
Post-office plan—if carried out—would tend to retard
the progress of those moral and religious feelings
which had been promoted by an improving regard for
a proper observance of the Sabbath. If facilities
were afforded for transacting business on the Lord's-
day, no man could say to what extent that business
might be carried. He had ttat morning
received a letter on this subject from a gentle-
man of high standing ; and he (Mr. Cotton) was sure,
from the communications he had had with various
persons, that a measure for the abolition of Sunday
labour at the post-offices throughout the country
would be well received. lie, for one, would exceed-
ingly regret the adoption of any measure by which
her Majesty's Government should seem to justify
Sabbath labour in any one of its departments.
Mr. BEVAN—My Lord, I must say one word in
the name of the London bankers, who can have no
feeling of rivalry with respect to the country or pro -
vinc.al towns obtaining information more quickly
than they do at present, which it has been said is
the reason why the London merchants oppose this
change, as it may tend to put the country merchants
more upon an equal footing with themselves. I, for
one, and I believe the bankera generally, have no
Feeling on that score; and I must apologise for so
few London bankers being present on this occasion.
This is dividend day, and they are all hard at
work; and I myself left in a great hurry to get here
(smiling).
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—Mr. Ma3terman is here.

Mr. MASTERMAN—I must say that I had quite
forgot that. Though I was at the Bank of
England by half-past eight this morning, in order to
get here, I had no recollection of this being dividend
day.
Mr. BRYAN Continued—There is no class of men
who have such an interest in the character of polt-
men as the bankers have : and it will be difficult to
find man of such character as you desire to enter upon
the duties of the Post-office, where they have, I may
say, gold untold committed to their charge, if they
are to be at the Post-office till ten o'clock every Sun-
day morning, and after five every Sunday evening. I do
not think that men of high moral character, and who
value their religious duties, will accept of such a si-
tuation, many who now have them will throw them
up, end thus our letters will be committed to the
care of men comparatively of no principle. I think
that this will be a great social evil, and I earnestly
entreat that your Lordship will consider it. lam
quite sure that your Lordship would not yourself
accept any situation, however valuable, which took
from you that portion of your tine—(Hear)—and if
you would put yourself in the situation of these poor
men, you would see that the same moral feeling
which actuates your Lordship may also actuate
them.—(Hear.)
Mr. C. POTT entirely concurred in all that had
been said by the gentlemen who had preceded him.
He had a memorial (as the reporter understood)
from Southwark, signed by two thousand persons,
against the proposed measure; those signatures had
been appended in two days, and if more time had
been allowed the number would have been doubled.
The memorial expressed the same feeling that was
conveyed in those presented by the Lord Mayor.
Mr. J. 11. SHEARS said the meeting at which the
memorial bad been agreed to in the borough of
Southwark was fully attended, and he never saw so
much unanimity of feeling as had been evinced on
that occasion. There was but one person found at
that meeting to speak in favour of the Government
measure, and upon inquiry it turned out that be did
not belong to the district. There was but one com-
mon feeling of regret that his Lordship should have
sanctioned such a measure, and the general opinion
of the meeting was that when he (Lord J. Russell)
found the public voice was so unanimous, he would
withdraw it. He had, .as a manufacturer, been con-
fleeted with the city of Luudun upwards of forty
years; he had taken an opportunity of consulting
many persons connected with its trade on the subject,
and had found the general feeling to be that the
present Post-office arrangements, with its numerous
deliveries, was, to the very fullest extent, as much as
was required for the convenience of the manufacturers
and the public service. The last delivery in London
was rather a nuisance than a benefit. -Many persons
received the letters by such delivery at the close of
their hours of business, and scarcely knew to which
day the letter belonged.
Mr. WILSON thought that looking at the terrible
visitation at which the country had been afflicted, and
under which it was still suffering, the Government
could not make a more acceptable offering to God, or
one that would be more gratifying to the religious
feelings of the nation, than by directing all Sunday
labour to cease at all the provincial post-offices, as
well as at the General Post-office in London.

One of the deputation, who represented the parish
of Islington, said he had a petition which had in the
course of a few days been signed by 2,000 inhabitants
of that parish. There was but one feeling in that
locality—a hope that his Lordship would be pleased
to withdraw the contemplated measure.

Lord J. RusseLL—l wish to say, in the first in-
stance, my Lord Mayor and gentlemen, that I think
from what I have seen reported of the proceedings at
public meetings on this question (and what has passed
here to-day has confirmed me in the opinion), that
the objections which are made—most conscientious
objections to be Eure, and very much to be respected
—have been made against a supposed measure, being
very often made by the fears and apprehensions of
the persons objecting, and very often derived from
mere rumours, and not against the measure that is
proposed by the Post-office authorities. I have
received various letters and other statements
containing these objections. Here (producing
several papers) are some of them. A person whom
we all respect writes to me and says, "It is intended
to open the Post-office upon Sundays." I have an-
other letter here which says, "It is intended to em-
inence Sunday labour in the Post-office." A third
says, " The clerks in the Post-office have been ordered
to attend on Sundays the same as on other days." A
fourth allegation to me was that " London letters
would be all received and sorted, and hence would
arise a demand for a Sunday delivery." A fifth,
" that the number of letters to be read and sorted on
Sundays would be 200,000." Now, I quite own fo
you that there has been a very general feeling—yen
may call it unanimous—against this measure ; but it
has been founded entirely upon allegations of the
nature that I have just stated. With regard to open-
ing the Post office upon Sundays, the meaning of
which is that it is intended to collect and deliver let-
ters the same as upon other days—
The Bishop of LONDON—No such statement, I as-
sure your Lordship, has been made at any meeting
which I have attended, so far as lam aware. _

The LORD MAYOR—At the time I had the honour
of writing to your Lordship it was so supposed ; but
in order to put myself right at the meeting over
which I presided, I called upon Mr. Hill in reference
to it, and I explained to the meeting the exact nature
of the proposition.
Lord J. RUSSELL—Very well. Then, in the first
place, it was agreed there was no such proposition ?
Mr. MAsTERaiAN—No proposition that the Post-
office should be bound to deliver.

The Bishop of LONDON—It is agreed, my Lord,
there is no such intention ; but it is equally agreed
that the proposition must inevitably lead to it.
Lord J. RUSSELL—That is quite another question.
Mr. MASTERMAN—We are all agreed as to that
being the effect, my Lord.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—That is ex-
plained by what Mr. Masterman, I think, has been
made to say elsewhere—that if there is a distribution
of letters in the country on the Sunday, London must
have one also.

Lord J. RUSSELL—The next allegation is, that "It
is intended to commence Sunday labour in the Post-
office," it being supposed to be the case that there is
no Sunday labour there already.
Mr. MASTERMAIN—We do not say, my Lord, that
Sunday labour will be " commenced," but "in-
creascd."

Lord J. RUSSELL—Yes, but I am only saying that
these are the allegations in letters sent to me, asking
me to put a stop to this measure of the Post-office
authorities. This allegation, then, is not so, because
there is Sunday labour at the Post-office already, of
one sort or another, and clerks have always been em-
ployed there. The third allegation is, that the clerks
in the Post-office have been ordered to attend on
Sundays, the same as upon other days. But here is
an allegation made at the meeting over which your
Lordship presided which is very important, because
it shows the misapprehensions that have prevailed. It
is that London letters would be all received and
sorted, and hence would arise a demand for a Sunday
delivery is consequence of the 200,000 letters re-

[PRICE SD.

ceived. • That allegation struck me very forcibly. I
thought at the time it must have been a misappre-
hension of the nature of the measure of the Post-
master General. It was made, however, by a gen-
tleman at the meeting over which your Lordship
presided.

The Loan MAYOR--Yes; I think it was made by
Mr. Labouchere.

Lord J. RussELL—l cannot help thinking that if
all the letters collected were brought to the Post-
office, and sorted by the clerks upon Sundays, that
such a measure might lead to a demand for a Sunday
delivery ; for persons might say " all these letters
have gone there, they may as well be delivered."
But that is not the measure at all. The measure is
to receive only the letters which are sent on Friday
and Saturday, as the case may be, or which pass
through London upon the Saturday, and forward
them so that they may be received at their destina-
tions on Monday. The original proposal was, that
some of these letters should be sent on early upon
Sunday—so early, that at Edinburgh and other
distant parts they might be received on Monday
morning; but that part of the measure has been
altered. The measure now is to receive only letters
that are to be forwarded upon the Sunday, and to
forward them upon the Sunday evening, so that they
will reach at some time upon the Monday or the
Tuesday, as the case may be, their destination in
distant parts. This allegation, therefore, which has
been stated at some meetings—public meetings, and
in various letters to me—appears to some extent to
have been the foundation of this movement.—(No.)
Mr. MAsTEßeseer—No, not that ; but the fact that
there must be an increase of Sunday labour in the
Post-office. .
Lora J. RUSSELL—AIIow me to go on, if you
please. I have listepeo to the statements made to me
by the deputation ; and if you will please to allow me,
I will now make mine.—(Hear, hear.) The mea-
sure, then, is not what it was supposed to be. It is
not a Measure which, as I conceive, tends at all to the
delivery of letters upon the Sunday. Then comes
the question with regard to violating the sanctity of
the Sabbath, to which the Lord Mayor properly
alluded, and which has been the foundation of these
objections. But I suppose you will hardly say that
the Sabbath is to be kept only in London ' • or that
the employment of a great amount of labour on
Sundays, in different parts of the country, is not a
violation of the sanctity of the Sabbath, just as much
as if it were employed in London.—(Hear, hear.) I
suppose nobody would say that the sending of a mail
carriage, which is now the case, from the Eastern
Railway across to the North-Western Railway, or
other conveniences of that sort, which employ a num-
ber of persons, if it is not necessary, is not just as much
a violation of the sanctity of the Sabbath as if it were
actually done in London.—(Hear, hear.) I pointed
that out in the letter I had the honour of writing to
the Bishop of London, who naturally takes up the
case of the Post-office clerks of London. As was
considered by the Postmaster-General, he, at least,
will not say it does not signify what amount of labour
we direct on Sunday in the country, there is no
violation of the Sabbath there ; but that if it is done
in London, the Sabbath is violated.—(No, no.) That
, is a proposition which, I say, cannot be maintained.
Then the question is not now certainly—whether we
can put off all work in the Post-office on Sundays.
That is a very serious question, which involves many
very important considerations. It involves conside-
rations which are not merely matters of business, be-
cause the letters that are sent throughout the country
by means of the Post-office, are not merely upon com-
mercial or banking affitirs; it involves considerations
affecting the dearest domestic interests of a great num-
ber of other persons. For instance, a person may not
send letters through to London upon the Saturday
beoause they are not delivered upon Sunday, nor will
he write upon Sunday; so that no letters would be
received on Monday, or not till late on Monday night.
Suppose, then, a person writing to say that one of his
relations was ill, and that the relation requested his
sister or mother to come down to see him ; anything
of that nature, of the dearest value with reference to
domestic affections and domestic relations, would, in
such a case, be suspended for two days in the week
instead of one. This is a very important question,
which we are not to consider now. The question
therefore is, whether, upon the whole, as you agree
we are to consider the Sabbath not with relation to
London alone, but with regard to London and the
country—whether, upon the whole, this measure is an
increase of Sunday labour ? Now, the statement
made to me by the Postmaster-General is, that many
of the measures he has undertaken, and many of which
have been carried into effect, have tended very much
to diminish Sunday labour; and it is his opinion that
this measure, if carried' into effect, will, upon the
whole, be a diminution of Sunday labour.
Several Members of the Deputation—No, no.
Lord J. RUSSELL—That, at least, is his statement
made to me. That is his opinion ; and I think you
will agree that the question is not to be decided by
such statements as those to which I have referred—
statements which have no foundation, but by in-
quiries such as those which the reverend gentleman
who had just spoken (the Rev. Mr. Baylee) has
made, to see what the labour is which is now done
upon Sunday in the provincial offices, and what it will
be under this measure. The reverend gentleman has
shown, in several cases—supposing his statements to
be quite correct—that there will be instances where
fourteen hours labour upon the Sabbath will be re-
duced to eleven ; where twelve hours labour will be
reduced to nine, and other instances of that sort of
change. I think you will admit that a diminution of
labour to the extent of three hours upon the Sunday
in a great number of provincial offices—many
hundreds—must be, upon the whole, a ditnunition
of Sunday labour.
Mr. BAYLEE—True, my Lord. But there is no ne-
cessary connexion between a diminution of labour upon
Sundays in the provincial post-offices, and an increase
of Sunday labour in the London Post-office.
Lord J. RUSSELL—With regard to that there is this
point to be considered, which, I think, has not been
referred to—namely, the amount of letter- writing
upon Sunday. A person who is going to write, say
from Dover, upon the Saturday night, would say,
" there is no chance of my letter going on, therefore
I will reserve my letter for Sunday." Accordingly,
we find the increase of letters coming into London
on the Monday morning is very great, because they
are now written upon the Sunday instead of being
written upon the Saturday ; and thereby a very great
increase is occasioned to the labour of the provincial
offices.

Mr. BEVAN—But your Lordship will forgive me
for observing, that if all country post•offices were
closed upon the Sunday all the letters would be put
in on Saturday.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord J. RussELi.—That is quite a different ques-
tion. If it were for the general convenience and ad-
vantage of the country to shut up the post-offices
upon Sunday, in every part of the country as well as
in London, I quite admit if that could be done it
would be a very great advantage for the observation of
the Sabbath.—(Bear.) Whether the nature of post-
office communication is such as to admit of it I will not
pretend to say; but I am pointing out to you that
there are communications to be made by the Post-
office, which are often communications of very great
importance. A man near Southampton is suddenly
ordered to embark with his regiment, and he wishes
to see his wife or his sister before be goes. If for two
days in the week the Post-office is to be closed, there
is no chance of his seeing them. There are many
things of that kind constantly occurring, which
would require much consideration Wore any such
measure could be adopted.
Mr. BEVAN—There is the electric telegraph, my
Lord. In such cases, that could be used.
Lord J. RUSSELL—I am much obliged to you for
mentioning that. A great part of the objections to
the proposed measure go, I think, upon the ground
that there are certain means and advantages of com-
munication now which would be left untouched by
the Sunday closing of the Post office. There is the
electric telegraph, as I am properly reminded. If u
person is rich enough to go to the Electric Telegraph-
office, and pay his 15s. or 16s. to get a message
i con-
veyed, of course he will get it conveyed. So, n time
same way, if a person gets news at Southampton, or
news at Maidstone or Dover, of something
very important for a commercial specu-
lation, he sends it to London on payment of a shilling
by parcel; it is received here, and upon payment of
upon,
another shilling it goes. down to the part of the coun-
try where the speculation is to be enteredand
to the
thus his purpose is answered..'With regard
rich, therefore, there might possibly be no very great
disadvantage in such a measure as closing the Post-
office
for two days in the week. But with regard to
the poor—when you come to them and ask them,
" Will you go and spend your 15s. or 16s to send
your message by the electric telegraph, or Is. or 2s.
to send it by parcel ?" their answer must be, " We
are quite unable to afford it." Therefore I do hope,
in
considering
questions of this kind, you will take
into your consideration the necessities of the poor as
well as the means and the conveniences of the rich. I
know it is said that the measure has not been recom-
mended to us. But it is a measure that was recom-
mended by two commissions which sat upon the
Post office; and it was also recommended by a
Committee of the House of Commons. The Post-
master General, therefore, had the minute drawn up
y Mr. gill wbisl has to day appeared in the

newspapers, his opinion being that, upon the whole,
there would be great convenience to many parts
of tho country by it, and that Sunday duty or labour,
upon the whole, would be diminished ; and upon that
recommendation of his it has bE-en sanctioned, and it
is proposed to be carried into effect. The Postmaster-
General can state better than I can in what way he
considers that will be the case. All I can say, then,
is, that I believe the opposition made to this measure
has been founded, not upon misrepresentation—l will
not say that—but upon misapprehension as to the
effect of it; and I own I particularly refer to the
statement made by Mr. Labouchere, which struck me
much at the time, as containing very grave facts which
now turn out to he totally unfounded, as one instance
of those misapprehensions.
Several members of the deputation here asked for a
short delay of the measure.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE—It is only respectful
to the deputation that I should say a few words upon
a matter in which they are so greatly interested. I
can assure the deputation there is nobody respects
more deeply than I do the feeling which has given rise
to their coming here to-day. Undoubtedly the sub-
ject has agitated the metropolis strongly; and there-
fore, I assure them, that if I did not think it was
founded upon a misconception of the facts, and a total
ignorance of the real state of the case at issue, I,
for one, would be most anxious to give way to that
feeling, although my reason might be quite uncon-
vinced by the special arguments used against it. The
fact is, the measure seems to me totally misunder-
stood.—(No, no.) That, at all events, is my opinion.
I agree with Mr. Masterman, it is no answer to those

who ask for a total cessation 'of the Post-office upon

the Sunday, to urge, for defence, this special plan; but
the cessation of Post-office labour altogether upon
Sundays is a question not competent for the Post-
office or the Government to decide without the inter-

vention of Parliament, because the Act of Pgliament

makes it imperative upon the Post-office to forward
letters without delay. Ido not say whether it would
be advisable or not to alter that, or upon the proposi-
tion that is made ; but I call attention to the fact that
that was not the question under my consideration.
The question that was under my consideration was,
the general diminution, throughout the country, of
labour in the Post-office upon Sundays. Ido not
wish to complain of any thing that has been said
about the Post-office authorities or myself. I know
that a public man, in the execution of a public duty,
is liable to be misunderstood, and to have his
motives misconstrued as well as his acts ; but, at
the same time, I must take the liberty of saying that
there has been more done to lessen the labour of the
department upon Sundays since I have been in office
than was ever done before —(Hear, hear.) I have
always endeavoured to do it.—(Hear.) Undoubtedly
there has been a great amount of Sunday labour put
a stop to. It has been done as quietly as possible,
and therefore it has attracted little or no attention,
nor indeed was it wished that itshould attract attention.

In considering the diminution of Sunday labour, we
found this, practically speaking, would be the effect
of the proposed arrangement. Some gentlemen seem
to disagree in this opinion, but my own experience
bears me out, and I do not think any person who has
gone much about England can differ from me in this
—that in many instances letters are written not upon
the Saturday, but upon the Sunday, because they
would lie the whole day in the post-office. That, I
must say, is a fact I never heard disputed before. It
is not only demonstrable by returns from the country
post-offices, but it is notorious; and these are not
merely letters upon mercantile business, but the letters
and correspondence of the public generally. I have
been advised, by the best sources of information within
my reach, that undoubtedly the passing of letters
through London will put a stop to a great deal of corre-
spondence on Sunday, that letters will be written
upon Saturday. Thus there will be a great diminu-
tion of letters in the offices on Sunday. All the sur-
veyors in the different districta allude to it as a matter
that will give relief to the offices in their district ; to
some it will be more, and to some it will be less; but,
as I have said, all state it will undoubtedly relieve the
country offices. And it is hardly possible to see how
it can be otherwise. Mr. Baylee has stated that a
certain number of offices would be relieved upon Sun-
day, but that would be fur a very few hours. Now,
it is not only the number of hours that are to be taken
into consideration, but the time of it. It is quite
evident that three or four hours' relief, at the time of
divine service, may make a great difference in the
labour of a particular office. But I should say that
the time put by the Rev. Gentleman is much under-
state d. The facts could only have come from the
postmasters, and probably also some from clerks.
What makes me more convinced that there is great
misapprehension as to this measure, is what has been
stated in this room by Mr. Cotton and the Rev. Mr.
Wilson, in reference to the districts of Islington,
Whit( chapel, and Southwark. Why the people
of Islington, or Southwark, or Whitechapel will have
no more increase of business upon Sunday in con-
sequence of this measure than if the letters passed
through the French Post-office. It will not be
felt by any one of them. Talk of opening the Post-
office ! The Post-office is open now, and it will not
be opened one bit the more! There is no question
of principle involved in it in this respect; but there
is a great question of principle involved in stopping
all the post-offices in the country upon Sunday, as
Mr. Masternlian puts it. It is a question whether
twenty-five clerks, as at present, or fifty, shall be em-
ployed ; and when Mr. Bevan says it is important
that men should not be employed who are averse,
upon principle, from Sunday labour, he forgets that
the principle is the same whether the men are em-
ployed one Sunday in five or one Sunday in three.
The hours make no difference. But this is entirely a
matter of detail, and I cannot understand it other-
wise; I can only say that, according to the best re-
ports we can get from all the surveyors, the aggregate
opinion is, that the employment of twenty-five addi-
tional clerks upon Sunday for the same hours as they
are now employed, and no more, will be a great re-
lief. In fact, the hours will not be after nine in the
morning ; then again between five and seven ; so that
they are quite exclusive of the hours of divine service.
This is our opinion. We may be wrong in point of
fact ; but it is not fair to say we want to desecrate

the Sabbath when we wish to afford a great conve-
nience throughout all the offices in the country.
It is a certain fact that wealthy merchants
have, upon many occasions—l have it from un-
doubted authority—parcels sent express between the
great towns and London for information, because the
post does not go. Surely the post going on those
days, no letters being delivered till Monday morning,
would be no desecration of the Sabbath. This was
intended to he accompanied with other measures that
might probably give rise to considerable discontent in
the towns of the country if no boon such as the pre-
sent were given. I have a list I could read, in oppo-
sition to the list which Mr. Bailee has read, of such
towns in all the districts except one. In some towns
there were two, three, and four deliveries going on
now on Sundays, which will all be reduced to one
single delivery on that day. I say that will be an
immense relief to the letter-carriers in those localities.
We intend to close all the offices from ten to five on
Sunday, except for the actual dispatch of mails,which
it is impossible to prevent; and to abolish Sunday
rural cross posts and some mails which are expressly
kept up on Sundays. There is one post always kept
up between the east and west of England, which runs
on no other day but Sunday. That we shall put a
stop to, but I am told it is impossible to do so without
giving rise to great inconvenience and serious lass to
several important interests, unless we allow the mails
to come through London on Sundays. That is a
boon. I say, then, whatever may be the result of this
measure, it was intended to diminish Sunday labour.
lam convinced it will do so. If I thought it would
not I would give way at once ; but I must say, nothing
I have yet heard has at all satisfied me it will not di-
minish Sunday labour.
The Rev. Mr. BAYLEE—The Post-office may be
viewed in two aspects—London and the country ;
the one open and the other shut; but your Lordship
may say that labour is to some extent now carried on
in the metropolis. We admit, however, that, as in
a private, so in a public establishment, the Divine
command requires some labour to be done on that
day ; but now you are about to alter the two aspects
of the Post-office, and instead of altering them so as
to assimilate the country to the metropolis, you alter
them so as, to a small extent, to assimilate the metro-
polis to the country. That is our ground of oppcti-
tion. As to the intricacies of the question, and the
relief said to be afforded to the country, I must con-
fess that these considerations have not altered my
opinion.loyed
, W ILSON—Besides, as to the officials now em-
ployed, if lam rightly informed, the of
Mr.
othfethbeag‘Ns.aor,nwln
Sundaysie was plan
opening
introduced during the time
it was of the utmost importance that
Government should receive the earliest information.
If I understand rightly, the bags are only opened
now to give their letters to Ministers and the Foreign
Ambassadors, who I think ought to submit to the
postal regulations of this country. We are perfectly
sure, my Lord, that if this measure goes on, the prin-
ciple cannot stop here; it will lead to a general deli-
vLry upon the Sunday.
The Bishop of LONDON—AIIow me to say one
word. It is said that an imputation has been assigned
to the authorities of the Post-office, that they intend
afterwards to have a delivery of letters in London.
Now I have not heard that imputation anywhere
assigned; but I believe that it will lead to a delivery
of letters in London ; and fur this reason, because this
is the commencement of additional labour in the Post-

office for the sake of a small convenience. Your
Lordship may perhaps be aware that, about thirteen
years ago, a design was entertained of opening the
London nst office fc,r a general delivery of letters on
Sunday. I remember that I then took a very active
part in remonstrating against the measure ; and the
design, if it was entertained at that time, was relin-
quished. Therefore, though there may be no lute L-

tion now to open the Post-office, yet it is impossible
to say what may he intended a few years hence if this
measure be persevered in, because it might then le
urged that such a step would only be an extension of
the principle which had already been sanctioned by
her Majesty's Government. I must state, in illustra-
tion, one point which is most interesting to me.
My brethren of the clergy who are acting
as Ministers in poor districts have a strong
ocinion upon this subject, because while they feel
it their duty to enforce upon their poorer brethren
—and not without success—the sacredness of the duty
which binds them to observe the Lord's-day, and
to press upon them the advantages, temporal as well
as spiritual, which will result from such an observ-
ance, they will henceforth be inevitably met by this
argument—how can you ask us to desist from pur-
suits which are partly remunerative and partly
sources of recreation, when we see the Government
increasing labour in the public establishments on Sun-
day ? Ido not say that is an argument which cannot
be met, but it is a very plausible one, and one which I
fear will be extensively used.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE-With respect to
the delivery of letters on Sunday, no person can be
more opposed to it than myself, and to prevent any-
thing of the kind being resorted to, express orders
have been sent to all the country post•offices that
letters addressed to London should not be sent forward
to London. There will, therefore, be no temptation
to deliver letters arising from this measure; and the
Bishop and other gentlemen will see that if after wards
it should be resolved to have a delivery of letters on
the Sunday, it will not only lead to an increased labour
in London, but also to an increased labour in the
country on Saturday nights.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER-I wish to
say a few words on this subject. The Lord Mayor
and Mr. Mast?rman have both talked as if this mea-
sure would increase the revenue. Now I beg to say
it will not make the slightest difference one way or
the other.

The LORD MAYOR—I mid if_it should be supposed
to increase the revenue.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—It will not
increase the revenue either by the one system or the
other—it was not treated as a question of revenue,
but simply with a view to diminish Sunday labour.
In answer to the Bishop of London, I must say it is
my full belief and conviction that the effect of this
measure will be a considerable diminution of Sunday
labour throughout the country. I do not say if an
increase of labour in London is an infraction of a great
principle, that a diminution of labour in the country
would be any counterbalance to it; but as I saw it
well put in a newspaper the other day, as one public
bakehouse diminishes the labour of a number of fami-
lies, so the labour or 25 additional clerks for a few
hours morning and evening on a Sunday, will enable
the Postmaster-General to dispense with a great
deal of Sunday work throughout the country. But
this, ycu will observe, does not touch the question of
principle which has been started by some of the
speakers—the question of shutting the Post-office all
over the country on Sundays—(llear, hear)—but
that is not the question before us now. The question
is what wilt be the effect of the measure now before
us ; and my sincere decided opinion is, that the effect
will he considerably to diminish Sunday labour
throughout the country. Some doubts appear to
exist whether more letters are written on Sundays
than on other days ; but it must be obvious from the
fee', of which lam assured, that the letters delivered
on Monday amount to 25 per cent. more than on
other days. _ _

Mr. PALMER impressed upon Lord John Russell
the great importance of his allowing the country
more time to express their feelings on the matter, and
of not permitting the deputation to go away with
the conviction that the measure would be carried out
on Sunday next.

The Bishop of LONDON thought that, on a question
of so much importance, a little delay might be con-
ceded.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL'S opinion was, he must con-
fess, that people would not have a right understand-
ing of the measure till it was put in operation. He
should, however, in deference to what had been said,
consider the matter with the Postmaster-General,
and see what his opinion was as to any delay of the
measure, though he could not say anything as to
withdrawing the measure, as his opinion was that
it would diminish Sunday labour. The Bishop of
London had observed that when thst clergy were
exerting themselves, as they had done most usefully,
in promoting the proper observance of the Sabbath,
they might be mqt by the argument that the Govern-
ment were introducing Sunday labour in the metro•
polls. lle thought it would be but fair to say should
thi3 objection be raised, "that, though it may appear
to you Sunday labour is increased at the Post offices
by this measure, it is the opinion of the Government
that, on the whole, Sunday labour will be diminished
at the Post-offices by it.
The Bishop of LONDON, in explanation, said,
he was satisfied the Government would not sanction
the measure if they thought it would increase Sunday
labour.
The deputation then retired.

BURIAL OF THE DEAD IN THE

MIDST OF THE LIVING.
TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN.

Six,—fn your report of the proceedings of the
National Society for the Abolition of Burial in
Towns, which appeared in The Sun of last evening,
instead of two acres, it is stated that the churchyard
of St. Giles-in-the Fields, contains ten acres. As I
know that the number of interments therein might be
put down, without any risk of exaggeration, as
amounting to many thousands more than the number
stated in the report, I shall feel obliged by your al-
lowing me to correct the error as to the space occu-
pied by St. Giles's churchyard; it is two acres and
not ten.

I am, Sir, yours respectfully,
G. A. WALKER.
St. James's-place, St. Jame's-street,

October 11th.

TORTURE IN SWITZERLAND.—A few days ago M.
Fr---, examining magistrate of Zug, in Switzerland,
hall to investigate a charge of robbery against a servant.
girl named Wildenberg, and, as the case was clearly
made out against her, he called on her to avow her guilt.
She repeatedly refused; whereupon he ordered that she
should be subjected to torture. Accordingly, her two
thumbs were fastened in a vice, and this being attached
to a cord which passed through a ring in the ceiling,
she was lifted from the ground. The examining magis-
trate then called upon tier to confess her guilt; but, as
she again refused, ho caused her to receive two heavy
blows from a st:ck. This, however, had no effect; but,
after twelve minutes' torturing, she cried for mercy and
avowed herself guilty. A report of this affair was
made to the Grand Council of the canton, but all that
was done was to pass a severe reprimand on the magis-
trate, to warn him not again to exceed the law, to quash
the interrogatory, and order it to be recommenced before
another magistrate.

THE NEWSVENDERS' BENEVOLENT AND PROVI-
DENT INSTITUTION.—Last evening a quarterly general
meeting of the members and donors ot the above bene-
volent and provident institution, established in 1839, for
the purpose of granting temporary relief and assistance
to masters and servants engaged as vendors of news-
papers, who, frown age, infirmity, or distress, may require
the aid of the benevolent, was held at the Newsvendera'
Hall, in Black Horse court, Fleet-street, for the trans-
action of general business. The report for the past
year, b'ing the tenth of the society's existence, congra-
tulated the members upon the steady progress of the
funds, whilst at the same time the committee urge the ne-
cesgify of an increase, in order that the growing claims
of the infirm and needy may be met. During the last
twelve months 131 was dispensed for temporary relief
cases to members and their widows (the standing rules
of the society limiting such relief whilst the funds
were under 1,0001, the dividends of the funded
stock being only applicable for benevolent pur-
poses). The invested capital now amounts to
1.000/. There is at present only one permanent pen-
sioner at 16/. per annum. The financial statement for
the past year showed that (including the previous ba•
lance) the receipts from all sources had been 1111. 9s.
11d. ; the expenditure,
including the purchase of 501. ad-
ditional stock, left a balance of 111 10s. 93. The report
concluded with the expression of gratitude to the various
daily journals for their support and assistance, and an
appeal to the members of the trade to extend the bene-
ficial influence of the institution.
ATTEMPT AT SUICIDE BY A LADY IN HYDEPrix.—Yesterday morning, shortly after eight.o clock,
as the superintendent of the Royal Humane Society was
proceeding along the north bank of the Serpentine river
he sew, at some distance from him, a well dressed female
who appeared to be divesting herself of her outside gar-
ments, and before he could get up to her, she rushed
towards the water, and uttering; a loud shriek threw her-
self into the deepest part of the river and directly
sank. An alarm was immediately given, and Hill, one
of the watermen, pushed off in a boat, and on arriving
at the spot caught hold of the female by the hair of her
head just as she was going down the second time.
She was epeedily conveyed to the receiving house,
*pre the usual remedies were resorted to, and aft( r
Porno time she was so far recovered as to inform the
superinte ndert that her name was Newell, that her
fi Lez highly mis were respectable, and kept their carriage,
and that tho cause of her attempting the rash act was,
that her lover had proved unfaithful to her. Had not
the Nnprrintendent been near. the spot, she, no doubt,
would have carried her object into effect, as at the spot
where she sank the water is more than 14 feet deep.
EDINBURG 11.--TIIE LORD P. ROVOST .—We regret
to state that our excellent chief magistrate has been
u ,able to attend to his official duties since the commence-
ment ot last week, owing to indisposition, which has
confined him to the house. The complaint from which
his Lordship is suffering, and to which he is often sub-
j •-•ct, we understand, is an affection in the knee, which has
hitherto defied all medical skill entirely to eradicate. It
will gratify our readers to know, however, that the Lord
Provost is fast recovering from the late attack, and that
be will soon be able to resume that high and distin-
guished position which he is so well qualified to dignify
and exalt. The duties of chief magistrate have, during
his Lordship's illness, been discharged by Baillie
—Edinburgh paper.