The Sun.
London, England, 1815-02-15 00:00:00

HOUSE ON COMMONS.

Petitions against the Property Tax:were, brought up from
Dorchester, the Isle of Wight, Great Yarmouth, city of .York,
city of Carlisle, town of 'Boston,"and ward of Queenitithe:—
A petition was brought up'from the county of -Hants against
the Property Tax and the Malt Tax. A, petition scat present-
ed from Worcester in favour of the-Property Tax under cer-
tain modifications. Petitions were also prkentA from the
coanty of Durham, Newcastle, King's Lynn-, Breittford, and
the parish of Sh6reditch. against the Property Tax.
Ms. Scrjeant BEST gave notice, that he slYould, on Thurs-
day next, move for leave to bring in a Bill to alter and amend
the Acts of the 5:3d and 54th of the King, relative to Insol-
vent Debtors. • .

GAOL
Captain BENNET, after a few piefatiwy observa-
tions, moved for leave to bring a bill for the abo-
lition of fees taken in the prisons of Great Bri-
tain, and sundry other fees.
Sir. J. SIIAW wished to know whether he in-
tended to include in this motion all the prisons of
the. city of London,.
Captain MNNET answered, that he did not mean
to include them. ite wished particularly to ex-
cept the three prisons, which were under the re-
gulation of the Courts at Westminster-hall; he
meant the King's Bench_prison, the Fleet, and
the Alarshals,ea. As to the state of those prisons,
it was his intention to move for a Committee of
the Ltonse to examine it.

Sir J. SitAcv thought, that. it would. be
.better
for him to defer the question. until, he bad moved
for that Committee, .as those were the three prin-
cipal,gaols in London to which his motion could.
apply. As to the city prisOns, there was not only
no fees taken, but subsistence was allowed to:th4
prisoners. After a few more observations, front
Captain BENNLT, leave was given to_ bring in
the Bill.

CORN LAWS..
A Petition was pre3ented from certain Land-
holders in Wiltshire, praying foi some alteration
in the Corn Laws.
_ _ _

Mr. Roatigsolsr then rose and said, that it was
his intention, on Friday next, to bring forwtlid
some' propositions respecting the Corn Laws.
lie then moved, that there should be laid befoie
the flume. an account of the quantity of foreign
grain and tour imported into this country from
the sth of January, 1814, to the sth of January,
1815.--Ordered.

Sift JAMES DUFF.
Mr. RoßiNsoN brought up, pursuant to the
Address of the Honse, copies of the correspon-
dence between James Duff and Lord Bsthnrst,
relative. to certain -Spaniards Arrested at Gibraltar.
?4r. Wuternat,to begged to call the attention
of the House to the subjeet of those Spaniards
who were delivered qv One of those' unfortu-
nate persons bad since arrived in this country,
and had given- adirect contradietion,to some parts
of the statement of General. Smith, on this trans-
action. Gen ..Stoith had stated; that those two. per-
sons had entered the garrison without passports, and
under fictitious names,.and tlrkt they were on that
account arreited; and afterwards delivered. up to
,the Spanish autliOriticS. M. ruighlanc, however,
who is now fOrtinatelyrinthis country, has stated,
,that so far frocn 'being a guilty person, when he
was afterwards tried at Cadiz, "cven,theo he was
found to be innocent. He stieterexpressly,, that
he did not come into the garrison under a. ficti-
tions name, or without regular permission ; and
contradicts a. very material part of Gen. Smith's
statement as to the arrest. He denied that he had
been guilty of any'erithe ; and, it apßeared that
after his being delivered up, he had been. acquit-
ted by Spanish
.JUdges. tinder those eircUM-
stances,,he wished that Ministers would institute
some enquiry as tothe correctness of the:state-
ment made by General Smith.. As to the Preee-
_dent of General Campliell having given -,up foirr
state prisoners who bud escaped from Ceuta, this
WaS a prec«lent.that, as he thought, DO WWI out
of Spain, and few in. it (except Sir,James Duff),
could approveot. Those four
_men had capitu-
lated in South Ante' ica to General MonteVertle.—
_The • capitulations expressly stated, that.' theee
.should be an absolute security, of persons. Neva-
.theless this capitulation was violated as soon us
,it was executed, and:those four men were sent
in irons to Ceuta. They contrived to escape
from then'ee, and arrived at Gibraltar. They
Avid been given to understand, Jleat the mo-
ment they set their feet upon that rock, which
forms part of the British empire, they would Le
_free under its protection.. In this; hope they were
cruelly deceived. General.Carripbell had arrested
them, and sent them back to Ceuta ; and they
were now languishing in dungeons, if death hail
not conic to their relief. One of those unfortu-
nate persons, who. was thus:sufierinn- in violation
of a solemn capitulation, had formerly, in South.
America, rentiered important services to Lord
Camelfords, when that Noble Man sailed under Cap-
tain Vancouver, on a voyage dediscovery. Those
services were still acknowledged by the relations ,
of that Nobleman. As Mr. .Puighlanc had now
arrived in this country, he hoped that Minister's
.would take measures to enquire whether he had
falsified the fact in, his statement, or whether it
was not the statement of General Smith Oat was
incorrect.

•Mr. GOULBURN-.did not Corteeive it necessary
for him. to. go into any discussion at present upo9.
the subject. lie. thought,' however, that he might
answer for it, that if the. Noble. Lord (Ba-
thurst) was.put in,possession of that statement,
every pains should be taken to ascertain the facts..
As to General ,`Seiitb, iIVWCYgf, le shuuld only

of giving up Spanish sot eets claimed by Spain
from the garrison of Gibraltar, and reciprocally
of Spain gising those deserters or others who
-were claimed by the Governor of Gibraltar, it
•woultfbe, in a considerable degree, an excuse for
his conduct. "
WHI:TIIRAD replied, that so fax from there
•bein7... any such cus-tOtn, the contrary had been
clearly proved. It mpeared, that so far from it
- 'Leitig,the "case,. that every one *born the Spanish
•;•C_lts.melumeot debstanded was to be given up to
• theth, that even murderers w.l.na had taken refuge
iil Gibraltar had been refused to be given up. As
to-the .giving pp of deserters, that was a matter
of separate regulation ,Atit he believed that even
- • .ticserters had never been giy.en up without atr
,ppcsri,otindition that they were-not tube punished.
'he conversation then- dropped.
tOttN LAW% . •. .
e hong were presented from Landholders in
The neighbourbdod of Holbeach and other places',"
praying for an alteration in the Corti .Laws:,
Mc RovNsox said, 'tif;t't in tiy&r to. Out his
:proposition into a regular course, lie shOuld ;now
•move, that -the House should, on Friday nex6 re-
, :solve itself, into a Committee,' to take into con-
: .siplesation the Corn Laws.:. • ;.,•
Lord- A. HAMILTON wished—to know Whether •
be intended. to begin by bringing iii a' Bill at
.• . •
.1- Mr. Rosmsot4 tliat:bi the forms of the
House, tlta,t could•uot.be dotie•l‘ he should pro-
__
pose siinte resolutions to the Committee, upon
if agreed to, a Bill -might beformed: •
Mr. RoaxxisoN's /notion was agreed to.
• • The CHANCELLOR the EXCElEcilli:it then aid
that in consequence of the great urgency. Of the
'measure •to be pl-OpOsedby hiSltight Hon: Friend,
, he should .postpone the notice which he had given
. respecting the Finance, from Friday to Monday :;

Mr.
,litoaNEß, after a few.. observations, moved
~for -a teturif of all grain, meal, and .flour, import-
ed into' the: Cohntry.trom foreign parts, as also
"from Ireland, since the 6th of July ; also, of the
,quautity v;•aretionseil at-Liverpool, Leith, Glas-
gow, and Ilnll, and also of the quantity. ,txported.
Mr: ROBINsox observed:that thre.paptrs which 1
. it liiti:airLoy moved for would eontAin'the re 7
turn no CO the art,: of Jaimaillast:.. flVe Von.
..:Gent,leumn. would •d, returw,trom-lha...
• - :time litest,perlod that the account could be
n 1 i(• UT) he suoultt I•l4rveito obreCtifid.'
•
1-16 RNEtt having apicU.;r r_d. motion pur-
'sit ant t 7; stlktgestion.,;g•-,3vas4.n.greed-to. 4
,
. CW IMI,.SsiONEIIS .FOR''EXANS_IIII.; l'Fi.stl
GOURTS•Vr-Sn'itintt.
. ,
Sir JN E %it pier 74. rytti'c'e;.m.•Ovectf6r
•
leaVe Mink urrn.--tlicAt
with greater-mver, than` lie tiiliftVoo(l7
,them now to possess. •
Soi:tCrfOtt:olol Efit•kt: opposed •the tiotion,
;On the
.giontut that this w6ittillie•thrOiving'aWijubt
,on the authority:Of appoint... Com
, - -
rnizisidners'-'Under. the grezit hnd moi.ed'the
preyions question. .
• The nuitiriirwits•thitiptit;,and.negatived with-
out a division.
. Sir J. NEwpntur postponed. his motiop_ relalivt
to the Fe of CoUrtir of Yudicaturt'in Ireland till
• Tuesday'Fees next. '•

LAW' OF FREEI1011) PROPERTY.
.. ,_
' Sir SANIUTL Romtt.LY rOse-to-give• notice 'of a
trotion which had last SeSsion beep successful
in that House, and 'which he had' no. reason to
.
.
imagine, therefore, would bleet with an un„lit-,
:.Vourable reception at present. His object wa's to
move . for leave to bring. in a Bill to makethe
freehold Property of persons 'who died indebted.
liable, to their sinc-ile contract debts': The'preS-'
-tion Was So simplif ,iz..wlietlier debtors pOsseSs..-
inn freehold propel pflillottld he 'Allowed; -or not,
i
to *defraud their credi s, that he 'should not have
'deemed it necessary to tr.'tsii.):ss on the time of the
House 'With any obse.rvatlons'on .the present"oe-
' e4loti,*lsilt Tor leirinie ,objections` Which `lie' had
:lately, beard: . ' e' begged to-remark, in the firstlX
'instance, tha - th.e law of lids country in this. re.
' ipeet :•iis,,tiie law of, no other country, not even
of uiii.. oyni Qolonies—,it.:vas the law .6f" Eitigland.
Lind Ireland only. He proposed to extend to the
s-4111.4u contract creditors the s'anfe reniedq which.
Avas,'al. present enjoyed by specialty creditor's,.
Whi'cli remedy was available 'against -the heir or
deilsec.AnotheF9bjection he had'heardtiiiis,th4t
it would beimpossibletOsell:a real-eAale`ii thi'l3ill.
sii;Ould paSs into a law.. He'Was start that such 'an
objection, could snever proceett froin 'any lawyer,
or person conversant with lire'
,:i'd'ini»iWa-
tion of justice in this country:. It was 'iinpossible.
there conbl"beany more :difficulty iildisPosing of'.
an es,tate encumfiered.with 'claitifs'of This` kind,'
than if encumbered uith.debis on 'boric!. Oi'co'nirc- ,
nant. . It was true 111 e remedy he rii•Optise4 Was. a
remedy only in equity, and not itt laW... ' Tlii. iliS-
tinetionhe had not'adopted;from any .preferenCel,
to that depnra'nent of the profasioll'ittivhiehies.
was personally engaged, bnvbeeitti4e, iti the ail-
ministration . of an estatz,--osnesuitqnZharneerY;
. was worth twenty actions•at law. Ile mnstialte'
theprest.:nt opportunity of observing, that'Alle.
(labor fa.y. of
•England apilearitl' to hint to be fotinded on one very erroneous pritieiple-that.a,
severity towards the person, anti great relaxation-
. towards the property of. the debtor. The law
punished him for not paying, but ruftliccl to com-.
'pel him 'tqinlttke any satisfaction [(till? creditors.
:aViTpeared 'to bini to be ntlt only harsh, but
IM-wise arid 'inconsistent. Pjrpetual imprison
ment, whieh might. be inflicted on an'unforttinate
debtor, vas not now by any criminal bode annex-
ed to any offence, however atrocious. - in thus
talking of.the debtor law of his country; he must
be undeistood as speaking of the law previous to
the late temporary Insolvent Debtors' .Act. In his
.
opinitin, though that Act did not go far enough,.
•
andtiO oit- to he followed by other measures for
the greater' security of the creditor as•well as-the
dentoe;'yet 'as 'far as it went; had- been a wise:
and salutary improvement.,
_He was aware that
'IP ii;(l' flee' i) •(!esci4C)C.(l- as prodiictive of infinite
mischief :- If"Oligiht, perhaps, have produced
partial inconvenience, because it was not a Inca-
-sure of a comidete nature ; ' hit feW, he
+thought, could deny that it was a Tel-woad! to the
country, 'to see shut' tfp in the same prison-a
debtor perishing for want,rnbut for thelpittanee.al
,lowed by law, and a wan of fortune liyingin •splefl:-.., „. %

uout %A(' ibuneliNt'e, rz!fs.ists %I'. -
tisfaction to his creAitors. Indeed; his 'Own °Pi-
nion was, that all those means of purehasitfik
lay at present. existed, by appli,dtiolls.°lf
course in 'equity, by sham pleas and writs c)f.-error, !
ought ti be aboliSlied=—(Hear; hear !). Whatever
alteration it 'was intended to propose,' be tritsted. I
that the late Act vvis not to be lepealcd for the
purpose of bringingliack the law to its old barbar-
ous system. .S6Mething -more of legislation on
this subject was undoubtedly "necesSarY; but then •
it was of another kind. Some partial evil attended
every general measure, but the. evil in this instance
had, lie conceivedb been much -exa4.7,geraked, ft
had. undoubtedly lessened the'' nuMber of actions,
and of commissions of bankruptcy :--it-might also
have diminished credit;_ but if. it had, it . riot:
that sort of Credit on which the comwerce. of the
teountry rested;, but the credit furaisheeto
in humble life.i.and-ivith
more prejudicial
,to_ those whR seceived. than to
those who gave it., He had thought this ;m it an
unfitaccusinuto thrtiW out their feiviihseitiOns;
and should conclude,,witlr -moving— -fkly -leaVq
bring in a till to make the freehold prtifi'atyot,
persons dying indebted liable for their simile
contract debts:--(Hear, Irea.i.Y- -

i y

7.•/• •
• '4\ 1r.....-Seijeata BEs'r •did 'not vise tc c ppose,the
mblion of 'his' Hon. and Lb.rne'd
4ay am, Or two'svoi..ers;':in conseluence of the. pd.
slog Maihs to-the oI
vent Debtors:. -:"agreeirs-‘iith theroptc)Eiit;ion3,
that the law of this:contlitT•lias.-t9o's,evey
to
Wards the person,. and too indidgenttoWar
;property .of. a• debtor. :lie eOuld•itOt tirink‘vell
the pr,inciplestf perpetual imprisonment as a
ishinent for inability to pay a- debt, but tire` •e_.
quent:lnsolyent Acts rendered' such a punishment
almost impossible. : In proposing a repeal 'of the
late Act, he did not mean to bring back the law to •
itsformer state, but to enlarge the'perioil'of eon,
finerneut beyond_ the' extremely limited period
prescribed by the present Aet„ He agreed also':
.that it :was desirable to introduCesoine enactment
by which the property-of debtors might he. 'lmre
eilectually'reached; He differed,- however, tdio-
.
they front the-lion..'aint Learnebil'"Gentlemalt p
Abe subject of tllat~ kind of credit to which.h.e.had
-referred, and'-i0 !Arch his'c)hitiuii, was necessary
.to the,preSenystate Orsociety.t
Mr.1.1-foin4ea laatrnagined, that when the.pre.
sent, Act was...under' discinisiO'n in 'that ous
merits of the -sprineiple'ou: it was ir.lined
had be-en•adraitteil by' the flon..andtearned.(3/en-
-tientan: • WlNiieVer "defe4s':ora >utiOrdiute-na-
I. that
•Ko arviii6aS'ybuld 'a(liltice4 dispQve.
imporciint
iurtaViition-in the ipinneipal laws of thg*Ltuil.,,Far
.frorieggieeilipr ‘yij.iir' the n'on. amid
,Learned Gent-
,lll-atrthe pritient -te.rthl'of tlemetit was. Lo©
Aslun ws-
t4-, he aof• ()Pinion that the person ,oLihe
debtor ".ought 'riot to be detained a sing,lesr.eck
,elterthe diselosni.e. of :liiipropertyhad been
made. With reSpect to credit on shopkeepers;_
his lion: Friend' did'not mean to destroy all cre
flit between such •perS,tiiis and the lowev.orders of
the'community, but to put an end to the inile&
mite credit 'which. shopkeepers were iii the
h bit"
of giving. to `persons -Who oughtnot to ha'
-longer credit than their'situation it
sg.
t.r,eptire.
As to what the Learned Gentleman
.had said
in
regard to the ancieriestate 'of theraW, that itwas:
ameliorated by:occasional tills for relief of kiisOl_
vent debtors, he (Mr. Horner) 'had agreed to the:
passingof such Bills, merely upon the principle that
the law was wrong; and that.he despaired of any
better measures being adopted by the Legislature.
He was persuaded that imprisonment for debt was
extremely
,injurious both to -debtor and creditor,
and that the Bill which had been passethtfor the
relief of insolvent debtors was a most salutary aria
useful

•
Mr. Serjeant REsr,.in explanation; Said, that
he did not find fault with occasional Bilk:- foi7 the
relief
.of persous- were.embarrassetfin their
circiunstances: He had stated.; and -lie would 're-
peat it egtin, that.heActested perpetual ituprisdii-
them. hle concciiedi however, that he hadsbcen
misunderstood, as be liad:nevet-'said a word either
against. or. favour„ of such He !cut
merely said thy; he intended to move for the re-
peal of.the.existing.Act ; and he had•reserved his
:arguments against that Act till 'his. motion Should
come before the.. House. What -he—stated on a
forther occasion was, that he approved of. the
.pri-nciple•of. the Act, but he could not approve of
the manner its which it had been carried into
•

LoT; ii.-n•Atti.gieed with the.Honourahle-And
Le in GeutleinA (sir Samuel:- Roindly)-,that
it cv-a•priclie.r to Make" that alterkition in-
ivfliclriie tl 'siiggested, .Pundpd..property,,-:and•
every other species . property, ought to lie
ject [o the payment of debts ; but with-respect to
the:late Insolvent Act, he„was convinced that it -considerable' mischief to the toora4s: of,
•the country, andevery maninbusiness accrse
„
- it.•::manypersou§.hadcootracted debts, inere—
.ly for he take of,fikking the.lienOt of:That law..p
--and As to the- period.pf imprisonment it was goad
Only•for misOlievous purposes... ..He,was peruit'd-f
ed, That a's- 4S..that people ,wotkii
not hesitatc.to run into delat,ito..give.undue-y-re,
:terents tei their creditors, and to•create-.fictitithis
debts. He hoped., however, that the 'llorvi'arrili, Learned 'Gentleman -would take a more ext*tisike
-view of the subject*. The olddavv, which:Alltwed.
a creditor-to imprison his dehtor, was intended to'
deter people from contracting .debts wholiad property : it operated a
.priori. on. such :personSi
'lt was not againSt men whobadimopertv that the:
law should be'.subjected, hut. -against those wh-o-
-had property and had expended it, ',or. web .a 3
never had any property,.and yet ventured to -0014, •
.tract debt. Is4t.thisßill treated all personsaliltel-
eit gave only three months 'imprisonment to
ci
'rogue, and-the eione period. to -aTerson..whose mis-
fortunes had made him emharrassed, whereas dif-
ferent periods. ought to be limited to different ere-•
ditors. lie contended, therefore,.-that his 'Bill
_liberated every perso*Who,had violated the gel)C.• cal riglkts of. property,..i There Was •no. safety 'for
-property under it, and though Gentlemen seemed
'to conceive, that its principal benefit, was -to nre-
veut-shopkcepers ving improper credit,: vet
-its 'operation was to affect; all credit
,; for no • 'son in leis' senses would
.at present give 'credit oh
the' COntrarY 'he wonlitCilcinnicribe-if, and with',. . • •
•

La; it, *litre it *is re4lly tat-
fui. to the prosperit. of. the country.
Li,ave was then gi'ren to bring ,
**Lich :was read a J.:I.:A tinA.; time, and Orderetrito
be read a z..eco4 'on •AiontNy
* '-`
- .I'6 %S reach a sebbini
-time,: and ordelki'd tCiTie 'conitnitted
The C LIAW 'of' the Extt Oa. Elt m o ved
that the fartkgr
iy
.repp.tt of the proceedings- of the
South Sea Colivan
should' be 1ai.1.1 before the
•
.Lionse. Ordeted:' .

,Mr. ,LpciutArr gave flake, -that he sholil.4
.
make motion tcx-Anorrow respecting- the High
Bailiff- of Westthijisier. The House then nil-
journc!l.