The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-27 00:00:00

part of the observations addressed to the house by the
Hon. and Learned Teeterreher, he thought it would be
but right to date to the House the course to be adopted
by the Qovernment. Ou receiving the retort of the
Commfte of bquiry into the circumstances connected
with the aclinittglion of the poor-law, he (Sir George
Grey) L-tail addressed to the Poor-law Commissioners a
letter, calling upon them to state what might_ have beta
the course followed by them in conducting thebusiness
of their office. Ile had received a full report upon that
subject, and that report had been referred to the opinion
of the law officers of the Crown, to ascertain how far the
practice of the Commissioners might be in conformity
with the law under which. they held their powers.
The result of that reference was, that the
opinion given was not such as to leave her
Majesty's Government in doubt as to the legality of the
acts, or the validity of the law under which they were
performed. He was surprised that the Honourable
Gentleman should have proposed to delay by a long in-
quiry the measures to be adopted with regard to Ire-
land, when he himself had approved of them.—(hear,
hear.) The Noble Lord at the head of the Government
had stated the course he was to pursue upon this point,
and had asked and obtained leave to bring in a Bill upon
this subject. That Bill would shortly be in the hands
of Honourable Members, and would be under considera-
tion upon the Bth of March, the day for which the dis-
cussion on the subject was fixed.
Mr. HUME wished to call attention to another im-
portant document. Ile wished to call attention nut to
the evidence, but to the report of the Committee ap-
pointed to inquire into the subject of the Andover
Union. That report showed completely that every act of
the Commissioners since the year 1841 was illegal,
When the Committee were asked to condemn the con-
duct of the Commissioners, their reply was that the con-
duct of the Commissioners was nut referred to them by
the House. The Commissioners had carried on their
business in private rooms without having a secretary
present to record it. The proceedings were noted down
on slips of paper, instead of being recorded in books,
and that was an additional reason why Geverninent
should take up the question. It was rather too bad, when
an inquiry had been instituted into a particular matter,
that Government should decline to take any notice of
its results.
Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIENs tated that, as an indivi-
dual he believed, after having carefully examined the
working of the two Poor-law Bills in England and Ire-
land, it would be a benefit to Ireland if the English
Poor-law were taken clause by clause, and applied to Ire-
land, and any Hon. Member who would bring forward
such a measure should receive his cordial support.
Mr. SHAW wished to know when the House were
likely to have in their hands the Bill for the reconstitu •
tion of the Poor-law Board for Ireland, and whether
it was intended to bring the measure of the Irish
Poor-law under discussion at the same time as the
Landed Property (Ireland) Bill, which was to be brought
forward on the Bth of March.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL, before he answered the epos-
tion of the Hon. Member for the University of Dublin,
would make a remark upon what had fallen from the
Honourable Member for Montrose. That Hon. Member
seemed to suppose that the reports of the District
Asylums Committee and the Andover Union Com-
mittee were left unheeded and neglected by the Govern-
ment, who stood by as though they were not
concerned in the matters referred to in those re-
Forts. Ile would ask, then, whether any higher
authority could be appealed to, fur knowing whether
the Commissioners did their business in a legal
manner or not, than the Attorney- General, at least
so long as the administration of the poor-law was
under the management of Government ? Oa that
appeal the only answer they got was, that
the Commissioners could be asked for any further ex-
planation. It was true that there had been a series of
letters in the newspapers, signed by Mr. M. D. Hill, in
which allegatirese were made that the Commissioners did
their bueicess illegally ; but all these allegations were
founded on an snonynntus case, which was itself founded
upon nothing, end it was a little hard that such grave im-
putations as these should be thrown out against the
Poor-law Commissioners on the assertions of this
among gentleman. For his own part, he ceuld not help
being of opinion that if the Cumuli: sioners had thus
violated the law to such an extent they must have been
conscious of the fact. So much fi,r the legality part of
the affair, With respect to the delay in bringing fore ard
the measure, the House knew as well as he did, that,
what with the measures for the introduction of corn,
the Sugar Distilleries Bill, the discussion on the Noble
Lord's proposition of railways fur Ireland—that while
carrying forward the measures for the relief of that
country, it was utterly impossible with the few days at
the command of Government to bring the Poor-law Bill
under the notice of the House, and be would have
been highly imprudent if he had forced it forward.
With respect to the alteration of the poor-law in Ire-
land, he hoped that they should be enabled to lay on
the table papers containing information relative to the
administration of the poor-law in Ireland. Ile would have
wished to fro pro f;ffiroi into Committee upon
the Poor-law (Ireland) :Bill, but it would be too late to do
it ; but on Monday evening he should move that it be
committed. lie would then propise a Bill for the loans
ler Ireland.
RELIEF OF THE DESTITUTE IN THE
METROPOLIS.
Sir W. JAMES wished to ask the Secretary for the
Home Department, if it was the intention of her Ma-
jesty's Government to introduce any measures to relieve
the casual poor in the metropolis?
Sir G. GREY lad not receive 1 any information on the
subject from the proper quarter, and was not at all in a
position to say what his views on the subject were.
BOROUGH OF CAMBRIDGE.

Sir DE LACY EVANS, on going into Committee of
Supply, begged to call the attention of the House to
certain erroneous allegations in the petitions from the
borough of Cambridge, complaining of the omission,
or non-registratii,n, of several duly qualified, in the last
court of revision held in that borough. lie held in his
hand a letter from the town-clerk, stating these facts,
and expressing a hope that a remedy might be found to
correct this state of things, and restoring these voters
to their franchise during the ensuing year. The charges
of neglect of duty against the Revising Barrister were•
G tally unfounded, for he had performed his dudes sub-
stactial:y and completely. A list of the claimants had
been submitted to him, which list he had given in a
perfect state to the town-clerk. Ile had only further to
state that, of the sixty voters excluded, they were in
pretty nearly equal proportions of the opposite parties—
Liberal and Conservative ; and in the event of an elec-
tion, the results would be of no great matter. Some
means should be adopted for rectifying- the Act of Par-
liament, and the parties were very anxious that an
inquiry should take place.
FEVER IN IRELAND.

Mr. J. O'CONNELL said that in rising then he had
no intention of interfering with the business of the House
upon the paper fur that night, but he felt it absolutely ne-
cessary to call the attention of the Government, fur
.a short
time, to the condition of Ireland. He was well aware
that they would have, during the next fortnight, many
opportunities of discussing the condition of that country,

onthe measures which the Government had upon the

paper for the relief of Ireland, but he wished to direct
the serious attention of the Government to the necessity
of additional measures. Ile did not refer to the accounts

of increasing digress, which appeared iu a morning
paper of that day, fi)r, since the beginning of the present
session, the Irish Members had the tnistertune to have

everything they said, with reference to their country,
treated as an •strava,,'ance and exaggeration. The
disease of typhus fever had already appeared, and if the
Government restricted the diet of the people to the
single article of soup, they would cause them to ex-
perience the disease of dysentery, according to the
opinion of the most eminent medical men. He hoped
Government would take an opportunity of considering
the propriety of bringin4 forward some measure which
should hold out a prospect of Ireland being, at no dis-
tant period, supplied with solid food. Some Hon.
Gentlemen would seem to lay it dusyn as the
rule to be adopted iu the present emergency,
that the population of the country should be diminished.
but he saw no reason why that rale should be adopted,
seeing Ireland, when well, cultivated, was capable of
producing more than sufficient food for its people. The
natural resources of the country were rJased to the
people, and exported in large quantities to this country.
He would express his hope that the dictates of reason,
justice, and humanity, would be at tended to by the Go-
vernment, and that the people of Ireland would not be
told by them that they must perish; that sufficient re-
sources were to bo found in the country, and to those
the starving millions of the people must look, or that,
because the supply of food had decreased, the population
should decrease also, by emigration. It was a norrible

. -
doctrine for any person to propound. It wac owing to
the misconduct of Government that Ireland was in

its present distressing condition, and it
but fair that the Government should

was
bear

the consequences of its fistal misconduct.—(llear.)
The effect would be to break down the rate-payers to

the condition of the p tuners. They believed that the
prosperity of the country had risen in spite of the poor-
laws; but he had stated more that; a month no in that

House that they were quite ready to give up their oppo
sition, and allow the Government to make their experi.

meats; though he believed that the attempt to curry out
these laws in Ireland would be only a reckless waste of
effort and of means, particularly at a time when the
funds of the country were so strained, and must be so re-
strained to relieve the frightful distress. Still, he
asserted, that a great majority of the Irish Members
we
re quite ready to bear any burden which
they might choose to impose upon them. But he
thought all these attempts would be uucless, and
he would rat.her point to an observation of the
Chancellor
Of t e ExExchequer the other night when he
was alluding to h
the
remark which ha Irish receipts in the Exchequer, a
served. That notal received the notice which it de-
rem
remark to the possibilityell) of in-
creasing those
receipts,
and he (Mr. J. O'Conn
be-
lieved
that if they
Only increase the expenditure
could
in Ireland, instead of pa in the proportion of one-
third to this country that ythi7yl would double the amount,
L12,,tr)00,000/. the
and instead of receiving
get 17,000,0001. from the Ex''
some-
would
thing to etrect good towards Irelahn7 W 71")
landlords return home. They
capital il'ial w°ull
should bbe: make"g the
do so by the expre,,sion of public opird,,n, e:lTPetiled to
create something like expenditure of
an I consegnently relieve the people of thin couut•7lf4,n`,,,,l'
a portion of .ho burden that pressed upon them at present..'
He trusted that the Irish measures might be brought
forward as hastily as possible, that the Iri:th Members
might return as soon as possible to do what they might
to relieve the distress which existed around them.
Mr. LABOUCIIERE said that he was not aware that the
Hon. Member for Kilkenny had it in contemplation to bring
this subject at present before the House, and he hail spoken so
often upon the subject, that the House would excuse him enter-
ing at large upon it. He trusted that when the Honourable
Member spoke of t4ii horrible doctrine of delaying the measures
for Ireland, that he did not refer either to her Majesty's Go-
vernment, or the English and Scotch public. He had never

heard any such doctrine broached, and he thought that it had
been justly condemned. Had the Honourable Mem-
ber referred to the diet intended for the people
of Ireland, and to the consequence of giving them
a liquid food. The subject had occupied the attention of the
Government, and enormous quantities of solid food were being
sent by the Government over to Ireland in order to relieve, as
much as possible, the distress there. He felt it to be his duty
to do all that lay in his power to mitigate that distress, bnt he
feared that there was a disposition to over-rate the power of
any Government to relieve distress.—( Hear, hear.) All that
they could do would be done,witness the fact that the Noble Lord
was at the present moment raising a loan of 8,000,0001, to re-
lieve the distress prevalent. The people of Ireland had, at this
moment, a claim upon the co-operation and support of England,
and that support had been given as far as it could be. He ad-
mitted that there was a feeling on the part of the English and
Scotch people, that while they were helping their Irish
brethren, there ought to be a corresponding exertion on the
part of the people themselves.
BOARD OF WORKS' REPORT.

Colonel WOOD wished to ask the Right lion. Gentleman
the Secretary for Ireland, when any additional report from the
Board of Works in Ireland would be laid on the table ?

Mr. LABOUCHERE replied that they were made out
every month, and laid before the House as soon as possible
afterwards.

EXCHEQUER LOANS.

Mr. HUME wished, before the order of the day was read,
to call the attention of the House to the mode in which it was
proposed to effect tho loan of the eight millions that was in-
tended for the relief of Ireland. It appeared to him that the
proceeding, as he had seen it stated in the papers, was against
all experience, and would have an injurious effect on the finances
of the country. He regretted it very much, and was of opi-
nion that it would be much better to borrow the money at the
lowest rate of interest for which they could get it, and he
hoped the Noble Lord would alter his plan so as to embrace his
view.
Lord J. RUSSELL replied, that they had proceeded with
the plan referred to because they considered it the best one
which, from the best information they could get, could bs
adopted.
On the motion to go into a Committee of Supply,
CONVEYANCE OF FOREIGN PROVISIONS.
Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD brought forward the mo-
tion of which he had given notice, that an humble address be
presented to her Majesty, praying that she would be graciously
pleased to authorise and direct that such ships of her Majesty s
navy, as can be spared from the regular duty, should be ap-
plied, under such regulations as her Majesty might deem ad-
visable, to the accommodation of merchants in the conveying
of co, n and provisions from foreign countries into the ports of
the United Kingdom. On taking a survey of the various
countries from which corn might be expected, it would be
found impossible to procure from the mercantile marine a suffi-
cient amount of shipping to convey the food accumulated in
foreign countries to the people of this country. There would
be one million of quarters of grain collected in the various
ports of the Danube by the Ist of June, and this grain, if
brought to this country in the mode he pointed out,
would greatly alleviate the pressure of the present calamity.
an f in America, also, and other places, the accumulation of
grain was equally great. It might be at once seen, then, how
great was the scarcity of ships from the increasing freights that
were charged for the conveyance of grain, a statement of
which he then made to the House. He would not attempt to
dwell upon the wretchedness of Ireland, as that was well
known to her Majesty's Government ; and he hoped that the
measure now proposed, tending, as it would do, to alleviate in
some degree the mass of misery which prevailed in that coun-
try,' would meet with their approval. He would not trespass
longer on their attention, but would conclude by submitting
the motion.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the subject referred to in the
motion of the Hon. Member had been brought under the no-
tice of the Government some time ago, and they had had it
under their consideration, but they did not think it advisable
to adopt it. He should however, say that there were at pre-
sent a great number of vessels—sailing-vessels and steam-ves-
sels employed in conveying provisions to different parts
of Ireland. There were thirty steam-vessels, twelve
sailing-vessels, and five depot ships, employed
in the conveyance of provisions to and from different parts of
Ireland. With regard to the supplies from abroad, of which
the lion. Member had spoken, he feared that he had estimated
them far beyond the truth. He thought that the quantity of
grain which they might expect from abroad was very small
indeed. But supposing they acceded to the motion of the Ho-
nourable Gentleman it would be necessary, in the first place,
to put the vessels in a condition adapted to the conveyance of
provisions. Now this would occupy considerable time and
would occasion considerable expense. It would take about
19,0041. to put them in this state, and perhaps double that
amount to adapt them again to the purpose for which they are
intended. In addition to this, the very limited supplies of
grain which they would be able to procure made it very obvious
that na adequate result would compensate fur such expen-
diture. The certain consequence, however, would follow that
as soon as it became known and was proclaimed that her Ma-
jesty's ships were employed in this service it would cause a
very great discouragement to the exertions of the mer-
chants of this country.—( Hear, hear.) It would re-
quire a much greater effort to be made than he had
anticipated. His own estimate was, that it would require
from 1,201 to 1,500 ships for a service of this kind. Now, it
it was proclaimed that Government vessels were to be employed,
the number of vessels now engaged in the conveyance of food
would be consider ably less, and the freights from America and
Odessa would be considerably greater. There was also consi-
derable difficulty, as well as expense, in bringing Indian corn
from the western states to the ports of America. Corn, which
was sold in the interior at id. per bushel, was enhanced in
price several shillings before it arrived at the port in conse-
quence of the cost of conveyance. And in addition to this,
there was a great deficiency of boats to bring it down the Mis-
sissipi. The great objection, therefore, to the proposal of the
Hon. Gentleman was the expense it would cost—the great loss
of time it would occasion before it could be carried into effect,
and the great discouragement it would give to private enter-
prise. He hoped the Hon. Member would, under these cir-
cumstances, withdraw his motion, for he might rest as-
sured if her Majesty's Government thought they would be able
by that means to accelerate the importation of food, and to in-
crease the supplies, they would be as ready to adopt it as they
were to employ her Majesty's vessels in the slistribution of grain
to the different ports of Iceland.
The motion was then by leave withdrawn.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL then stated that a proposal had
been made to the Government by the Society of Friends, who
had exerted themselves so much for the relief of the distress in
Ireland, that they should, by their contributions, endeavour to
raise a sum of money sufficient to purchase a cargo of corn, if
the Government would allow one of her Majesty's vessels to
convey it from America. Government declined that proposal,
but offered to pay themselves for the freight of the corn from
Americo to this country.
Mr. KERR thought if Government had allowed her Ma-
jesty's vessels to be employed in affording accommodation to
those persons who were disposed to emigrate from Ireland, that
this, in connexion with the plans which they were at present
engaged in carrying out, would be productive of the greatest
good to the iwhabitants of that country. In that way they
should get rid of a large portion of a population which could
not find either sustenance or employment in Ireland.
Lord .1011 N RUSSELL said, that with regard to vessels
bringing corn to this country, they would be at liberty to take
in passengers to the colonies without being subjected to the
operations of the Act. That was to be allowed, provided that
they confined themselves to passengers only, and he believed
that the system would be of benefit to the country.
SHIPS' SIGNALS.
Mr. HUME wished to know whether the Admiralty had
come to any determination with respect to the signals to be
adopted by vessels sailing off the coast of England. There
were collisions so frequently occurring at sea, that some
measure was necessary to prevent it. He saw, by a return,
that during the past year, 550 collisions of ships had taken place
on the coast of Ireland, and he believed that if a proper code
of signals had been adopted, much of this loss might have been
avoided. The experiment had been tried by her Majesty's
ships at Portsmouth, and it was desirable that they should
know the result of the experiment. •
Mr. WARD said that the trial had been made to a consider-
able extent, and the next week he should be enabled to lay the
results on the table,

Mr. ROEBUCK said that as he did not see the Secretary
for the Home Department in his place, he would ask the Noble
Lord at th head of the Government, if there was any ob•
jection to lay upon the table the answer of the Poor-law Com-
missioners to the question of the Government, as to the manner
in which they exercised their functions.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL was understood to say that the
paper would be laid upon the table.
NAVAL ARCHITECTURE.

Sir C. NAPIER wished call the attention of the House
to the system pursued in her Majesty's dockyards with respect
to the building of vessels for the navy, and to the abuses
which prevailed as to the use of ships which had
been built at an enormous cost to the country.

There had been eight three-deck ships cut down, and many
others so altered as to be materially injured. There had been
hardly one ship built of late which had not been altered in
some respect more then once, but all of them once. He would
read the return of the ships cut down, in order to show the ex-
tent to which the system was pursued. A
in 1815, which cost 86,0401., was cut downin7l4B-441u.n bilt
Vin-
dictive, built in 1813, and which cost 81,0001., was cut down to
a frigate in 1832, without ever having been at sea. The
Amazon, 42. built in 1821, was cut down, without having been
at sea, in 1844; and another 42-gun ship was cut down in
1845. The Brilliant was cutting down at the present moment.
The Penelope, 44, was converted into a steam-frigate. The
Thames, which cost 37,0001., had been turned into a hulk, and
the Bacchus was now cutting down. The Liebe, built in 1826,
and which cost 32,4845., was turned into a hulk in 1839; and
many other ships had also been either cut down or turned into
hulks. The sum of their cost was 619,000/. Ships of 44 and
42 guns had been cut down into corvettes, mounting
22 guns, and, in fact, the late Board of Admiralty
seemed to have it as their hobby, that a corvette of
22 guns could carry heavier metal, and be superior
to ships of 44 guns, lie very much doubted the propriety of
cutting them down, but it was well known that the practice of
the Admiralty was to turn large frigates into small corvettes.
The next fact he came to was, with reference to the Caledonia,

1 a three-decker, built in 1808, costing 81,000/., and afterwards'
Irepaired at an expense of 10,000/. in 1815. The Board of
Admiralty took the freak into their head of widening the
Caledonia, which was done at an enormous expense, and a good
ship turned into a very indifferent one. Lord Exmouth, who
commanded her in the Mediterranean, begged that they would
not spoil the ship, but they were indifferent to the request.
They had six three-deckers on the stocks at the present
moment, mounting each 110 guns, built upon the model of
the Queen, and the Admiralty were in fact quite ignorant as
to whether she was a ship fit to use as a model. There were
six 90-gun ships built after the Albion, a ship which was sent
to sea in 1841. He cautioned the Admiralty at the time to
he careful in building ships until they had tried the models, but
no attention was paid to it, and the vessels were to be con-
structed upon a plan which acted indifferently in small vessels,
and could not therefore be very applicable to large ones.
There had been many doubts as to whether the
Albion was a good or bad ship, but he had
one proof of her qualities ; namely, that in
a late gale she rolled 45 degrees to leeward, and lurched ever
to windward 43 degrees. He remembered when the Van-
guard was in the Mediterranean she sailed excellently at first,
and with her ports seven feet four inches out of the water,
but then she was in yacht trim, but the moment she had her
full compl,ment of provisions and stores on board, she sailed

vi ry indifferently. On one cruise the Vanguard carried only
685 tons, while the old Canopus had 793 tons. On another,
she carried 492 tons ; and on a third, only 618 tons, and yet
then she sailed well. The Superb had the same complaint made
of her, and her captain had actually been obliged to shift
the stores to trim the ship. The Rodney— a much smaller
ship than the Albion—carried her ports 7 feet 44 inches,
7 feet et inches, and 8 feet out of the water, whilst the
Albion only carried them 61 feet. She had now been sent
qaenee of the rolling, to Malta. The Rodney had exercised her guns in a strong
breeze, and hardly shipped a drop of water on her lower deck,
whilst the people of the Albion were obliged to hold on in conse-
I
managed in conseqgnteem?
water. Was that
built upon the old ag, and she shipped an immense quantity of
a fit ship to send against a French vessel
1 of them were unabl: t The steam navy was equally badly
of the frequent alterations, and many
lie next came to the Terrific,carry
main-deck guns at all.
was a 40 gun frigate, and
clengthened about sixty
i one of the largest size. Shehwad 'bile
..reault? Why that
feet by the Admiralty ; and what
swh
eaesn Ras,he
she could not bear herself up.
i her altered state
She ' went to the
only four feet eleven inches above the water.

coast of Africa ; and he had learned, that while there, her main
deck was but four feet four inches out of the water, and they
had been obliged to cork in her port holes, to keep the watt l-
out. He now came to the Terrible, which was built at Wool-
wich, by a man of great talent and experience, and it was ex-
pected that she would turn out a real and proper man-of-war.
Now the Board of Admiralty were sitting only within six miles
of the dock where the ship was building, and al,hough she was
1860 tons burden, they absolutely forgot to have any stern-ports
made in her. The consequence was, they had to cut down her
stern-deck, in order to accommodate the guns, and then they had
to hunt about to get guns to suit. The bow ports of this ship had
also been very badly constructed. She was a ship, nevertheless,
that steamed well, and was efficient in several other respects.—
( Hear, hear.) But let them wait a little before they cheered,
they were not yet out of the wood. She was to have been
constructed to carry 800 tons of coal, but when it was stowed
in her, it was found she would not stow away under decks
more than 350 tons, or coal for four days, at the rata of 85
tons a day. They had been obliged to get coal bunkers built
on the deck, and then she could not carry more than 500 or
550 tons. But this was not the only fault of the Terrible,
her paddle-boxes were elevated greatly above the decks, and
her steam-boxes and boilers were actually six feet five inches
shove the level of the water. The engines were so placed
that in a fight there would be no escape If a shot were fired
into the boiler, then below, about forty persons in number
wculd be completely cooked. In fact boiled by the steam.
If such a thing were to happen the result would be that
not a stoker would be got to go into the navy. The Retribu-
tion was a steam-ship of 1,641 tons, and her main-deck was
but five feet six inches above the lower; she was unable to
carry main-deck guns. The Avenger of 1,442 tons was ex-
actly in the same predicament. The same might be said of
the Barcemide, the Sampson, the Centaur, the Vulture, the
Pegasus, the Dragon, the Firebrand, the Orion, and several
others. Not one of these could carry main-deck guns. They
could not go into action, and could only carry eight days fuel at
the most. If they did go into action, from the position of their
boilers and paddle-boxes, they would be certain of destruction.
He remembered in 1841 he cautioned the Board of Admiralty
against the construction of iron steam vessels; and if they
built them, to plank them outside and in with timber. Yet,
they had not taken his advice, and had gone on
building iron steamers without ever having tried a
shot upon one of them. Here was a fine list, indeed, of
no less than thirty-three iron steamers built, or laid down for
baildMg from 1840 to 1847. They had not tried a single shot
on an iron steamer till very lately, and then they found that
the shot went clean through one side, and almost through the
other. These steamers would cost about two millions of
money, or taking the large steamers with the small ones about
fifty thousand pounds each. If they would not cost two mil.
lions s'erling, they would at least a million and a-half. They
were, in fact, perfectly useless. The Birkenhead steamer had
bean tensed into a troop ship, then she would not carry more
than 450 troops, and had no place for cable-tiers. But she
was rot fit for a troop ship in the time of war, for if she went
into action and received a shot she would go to the bottom,
and all the troops would be drowned. In fact, it would be
necessary to supply all the men with air-collars.--( Laughter.) The
Admiralty should sell them all. One of them the Grappler, he
had been informed, was nearly lost the other day on the coast
of Africa. He also complained of the screw vessels which had
been constructed. It seemed that 17 were in the progress of
being built, and only one had been completed, the Rattler.
Doubtless the vessel ought to have a fair trial, and he hoped it
would succeed; but he considered one ought to have had a fair
trial before 17 others were contracted for. What he had now
shown was sufficient to prove that great blame was due not
only to the late Board of Admiralty, but to every Board of
Admiralty that had sat for many years. He now came to the
great change in the navy last year, and the condition the ser-
vice was in, prior to the brevet. In 1816 the service consisted
of 1 admiral of the fleet, 66 admirals, 68 vice-admirals, 75
rear-admirals, 831 captains, 812 commanders, and 4,012 lieute-
nants. This immense number was repeatedly complained
of, yet up to 1830 it remained the same. The
Government became then ashamed of this enormous list,
and resolved, on the 27th of July, 1830, that no promotions
should be made, brilliant exploits excepted, except one pro-
motion to every three vacancies. (The Hon. and Gallant
Member here read the decision of the Admiralty to that effect.)
Matters, however, continued bad enough till last year, when
the provision was made for the retirement of many of the
officers on the list. On the 30th of September last year there
were 171 fl ig officers—these were reduced to 139; there were
858 captains, which were reduced to 730; there were 918
commanders, which were reduced to 855; and 3,50 lieu-
tenants, which were reduced 2,558. 30,0001. was granted for
a retiring allowance, and the flag officers were reduced
to 150, and the captains to 500. But the first thing
the Government did at the same time was to increase
the flag officers to 160, though by vacancies which had
since taken place, the number was only two above the
150. Though they had reduced the captains' list, what (lid
they do? They promoted 60 commauders to the post of
captains. This was undoubtedly a breach of the arrangement
they had previously come to. No promotions should have been
made till the captains were reduced to 500. On this subject
he trusted he would get the assistance of the Hon. Member
for Montrose (Mr. Hume), in order to take the sense of the
House on these promotions, which, if persisted in, would place
a vast amount of patronage annually in the hands of the Go-
vernment. Instead of doing as they had done, if the Govern-
ment would make but one promotion for every vacancy he
thought the service would soon be brought into a healthy state.
He had almost forgot one thing of some importance, which he
had intended to point out to the Admiralty ; he was glad he had
recollected it. He had just been pointing out the monstrosity
of their constructing 20 screw vessels without trying any of
them except one, and 30 iron vessels, of which they had actu-
ally tried none ; but there was another fact which nearly equals
that, if it did not excel it. What did they suppose it was?
Why, the Admiralty had given orders for four line-of-battle
ships, and four seventy-four gun frigates being cut down.
Granting that object might turn out of use, what
was even more than that was, that they made
no contract with the builder who was to accomplish
it. This it seemed they were not in the habit of doing; for
he was told that in the ease of one of the ships which was
being built, he believed, in Mr. Green's yard, he was told there
was no contract, and that they just sent in their bill once a
month for payment. He hoped to be told that he had been
misinformed as to there being no contract. But here they had
four line-of-battle ships and four frigates to be cut down, be-
sides the war vessels on the stc,d.,, ..d what,hc etalscd,
estimated amount of the expense? What was the vote to be
taken? The vote of last year was 18,000/.; what was
the vote of the present session ? 18,000/. would do
no mora than build one good vessel ; it was im-
possible it could do more than cover the expense
of the vessel in Mr. Green's yard. But then again there
was the case of the Vampire ; her bows was pulled to pieces,
and she was to be made into a bad steam-boat ; they were to
have a bad steam-boat for a good frigate. The vote of last
year was 18,000/. He begged again to ask what was the vote
for the present year ? He found that the vote of last year
for building iron steam vessels was 12 ),000/., and this year the
vote to be asked from the House was 100,175!. When Mem-
bers came to vote away such a sum of money as that, they na-
turally wished to know, and they ought to know, how it was to
be spent. For his part, he did hope that the present Board of
Admiralty would spend it better than the last board
had done. He would not speak harshly of them just
now, for as yet they had had but little time
in office. One thing he must mention before
lie resumed his seat. He understood that a commission had
been sitting at the Admiralty, with a view to increase the pay
of the lieutenants. He thought that there ought to be a com-
mission, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, he believed,
agreed with him, to increase the wages and so raise the status
of their engineers. He said it was a most singular thing, but
a fact as true as singular, that Government had never sent out a
steam-vessel which had not broken down—and what was the
reason ? It arose from the parsimony of the Government,
who gave low wages, and engaged thereby a low class of men,
who were ill qualified to do the duties of their office.
When a steam-vessel was built and the machinery put in, the
Government bad never appointed the eneineer, previously, to see
that the machinery, the cranks, and shafts,' were properly and
efficiently constructed, and properly put up. In fact, there was
one case—he would not mention names—but he knew that a
steam-boat was constructed by order of the Government, the
machinery was put in, and the engineer, who had the superin-
tendence of her construction, and put in the machinery, knew
that he was putting in insufficient machinery at the time, and
the consequence was, that when the vessel put to sea, she broke
down. His opinion was, that if the Government would in-
crease the wages of their engineers to a sufficient amount, and
raise their station to a higher grade—say the rank of Lieu-
tenants—(Mr. Ward : "'I hey have it.") Sir Charles said
lie was glad to hear it; but if they would increase
their wages also, and appoint them in time to inspect the ma-
chinery as it was being put on board, he was convinced that
the effect would be immensely beyond any anticipation the
House might be prepared to make on the subject. Another
point to which he wished to draw the attention of the Ad-
miralty, was their officers— he meant their petty officers.
He said the naval officers had been continually rated in that
House and throughout the country by persons who knew no-
thing about the subject they were talking upon; but, if Go-
vernment would pay their first class and second class of officers
at a better rate, and their seamen also, they would
find that these men would feel it punishment enough to
withhold their wages, and the consequence would very soon be
that all corporal punishments would disappear from the
navy. He expressed his fervent hope that the Admiralty
would this year pay attention to the recommendations of that
commission. One thing that he wished to press upon the
Secretary of the Admiralty was that he would establish at least
one single seaman's home at one of the ports ; he begged dis-
tinctly to press this upon the attention of the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman. They had been told again and again by the Government
for the last four or five years that the Merchant Ssamen's
Fund should be upheld. But now he begged positively to
ask the Government whether they intended or not to amelio-
rate the Merci ant Seaman's Fund; he begged they would
ecn
themselveseitrhnemr edt fsoor the
saidht
e theironcesu
p p ora rtg givesf
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ht
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nefit whatever from it. They begged, therefore, that Govern-
ment would either repeal the Act authorising the collection of
the fund, or so alter it that they would benefit from it, Again,
he begged to draw the notice of the Admiralty
to the Registration Bill about which so much had
been said of late, and not a little against it.
A Bill was brought in some years ago, by his Right
Honourable Friend, for the registering of the names of
the seamen, and for the furnishing them with tickets. It had
been said that that measure had proved ineffectual ; but he
quite differed from that opinion, and he would read a letter
which he had just received from a friend well able to judge on
the subject, which would show that such an opinion was ill-
founded. The Gallant Admiral here read the letter, stating
that the registrations for 1845 had been 207,813, and for 1846
the number of tickets issued was 230,892; but in the latter
year it was found that the number of desertions was
2,341. The letter concluded by stating the writer's belief that
the effect of this Act would be the production of great good.
He ( Sir C. Napier) said there were still difficulties and defects
in the measure, but he had seen an able friend the other day,
and he proposed as a means of remedying these, that some
gentlemen should be appointed to superintend the registration,
who, as soon as a bargain was struck between the seaman and
the captain, should register it, and the good effects, he believed,
would very soon be felt. He would now trespass shortly on the
attention of the House, while he drew their notice to the
Aa e s
ts
subject of enlistment. His Friend opposite, the Right Hon.
Baronet ( Sir C. Wood), had brought in a Bill, which in the
tehreent(s
seamenf w
toa come war,
was
forward osintendedward immediatelyt o
h ave
t huepeonifechteor of
inducing

proclamation. One of the provisions of that measure was to
entitle those who came forward within five slays after the pro-
clamation, to a bounty of 10/. ; and another was to entitle
those, actually in service to a bounty of another amount. But
now suppose the House should vote a supply of 50,000
men, the moment the Chancellor of the Exchequer
mu ,t be prepared with a sum nearly
like 503,000/. But,
again, suppose they wanted five thousand men in a popular
war, they would fird that an overwhelmi' g number would
come forward out of the merchant service, and the immediate
effect would be to injure that service. He wished that some
arrangement could be made, so that men could be called out by
classes, an arrangement, for example, which would compel
every boy, who had served his apprenticeship in the merchant
service, to go the first or the second year after
into the war service, for a certain period, when he
would be trained to his duties on board a ship of
war, and should thereby be fitted for her Majesty's
service, and at the same time acquire a knowledge and a liking
of its superior eharacter. He begged once more that the Go
vernment would take into consideration the composition of the I
Board of Admiralty. That was a subject which he had often