The Sun.
London, England, 1840-02-22 00:00:00

vitle, in command of a frigate. In Russia, the Eniperor
male an annual inspection of his fleet; and went on bored
of almost every ship in his service. These countries also
lied great facilities for manning their sbips,,while he under-
stood the Powerful was six months makin up her com-
plement, end the Pique had been obliged to put to sea thirty
or forty short. He thought it a bad feature that their
ships were often obliged to put to sea short of their full
corepcment. He under stood that a vessel leaving har-
bour the other day, was actually obliged to leave one of
her anchors behind her.
Mr. MORE O'FER RAL —She parted her ethic.
Lord INGESTRIE thous ht that was a very satisfac-
tory reason. He regretted, however, to find that their
best men were going into the American Navy. That
was the opinion of a late writer, Captain Marryat, and his
( Lord Ingestrie'a) experience . fully corroborated that opi-
nion. The Right lion. Gentlemen opposite had spoken
of the state of the ordinaries, but he (Lord Ingestrie) knew
something of the state of the ordinary at Portsmouth. The
total number of men there was 583, and deducting 200 who
were necessarily otherwise employed, th, re were only 380
men to man the ship—would the Hon. and Gallant Admi-
ral say that that was a sufficient number for a flag-ship ? .
Ile thought some system should be devised to encourage
seamen remaining in the service, and a plan of registry,
he thought, would be very efficient for thet purpose. The
officers should also be placed upon a footing, fur there was
great difficulty in obtaining a sufficient supply of midship-
men; and he under stood tiles tlie Revenge had so much
d fliculty in procuring a supply, that she put to sea with
only ten on board. During the last two or
three years - the British flag had received several
insults, and he hopad that a respectabl and proper
armsment would be in future kept up, which could prevent
a repetition of those insults. One instance was that of the
Express packet, which had, after all, been lamely got out
of ; another was the recent affair in the Mauritius, which
had never been satisfactorily explained to that House or
the country. Perhaps the Hon. and Gallant Admiral
Would be able to inform them why there was so great a
want of ships nt the blockade of Mexico, and also at the
blockade of Buenos Ayres. It appeared to him that
the Channel fleet ()eight to he manned so that
reliefs might be sent to the steps stationed
abroad, while it would give the officers and men an op.
portunity of sailing in ships of the line. He was glad to hear
the Right Hon: Secretary of the Admiralty stet e that they
were likely to go on building large ships. He tnouget
the country was much indebted to his R.ght Hon. Friend,
the Member for Pembroke,, for adopting the resolution,
which he regretted had been departed from, of buileitig
three ships every year. He could not sit down
without saying one word with regard to the pa-
tronage of the Nave. It might be thought a
party question. but he .did not allude to it on these
grounds. He referred particularly to Greenwich Hospi-
tal, and he must say that the promotion in that case had
been a source of disgust to the Navy in general. That
was an appointment which reflected anything but 'credit on
the Admiralty. It had been said that there was no
ddliculty in sending forty sail of the line to sea immedi-
ately. He was disposed to doubt that statement, both as
regarded the manning and the number of strips. He was
convinced that the House of Commons would never re-
use to accede to any vote, the object of which was to
maintain the national honour without going the length of
any wasteful extravagance.—( Hear, hear, hear.) He
would not detain them longer, but had made these
bservations with a desire to benefit the service to which
lie belonged, and which he hoped and was confident would
always do credit to the country —( Cheers.)
Admiral ADAMS said he had had an admirable ex-
ample set him by his Hon. Friend the Secretary of the
Admiralty, in abstaining from questions not relating to
the navy. He also had no intention of going at all into
the question of the appointment !to Greenwich Hospital,
which had been spoken of with such heartfelt irritation,
not because it did not relate to the finances, but because
it interfered with his argument—(Laughter)—and he
had before stated that Sir James Gordon was ap-
pointed when he was a captain, and lapsed when
he became a flag officer.—( Hear, hear.) He would
also mention that Sir Samuel Warren was appointed a flag
officer, he was removed from Woolwich, and it was the
practice with other officers under similar circumstances.
The Noble Lord had talked about the state of the. French
navy as being much superior to ours ; all he could say was
that our force in the Mediterranean was always consider-
ably larger than theirs. In Toulon there were two ships
within port, and some that had been employed elsewhere,
and in all, he bsdieved, fourteen sail of the line, and it
happened there was a larger force even than that when
the French ships were employed in carrying troops from
Toulon to Algiers, and at that moment there were two
large ships fitting is the ports. Now, with respect
to the ships and their degree of expertness,
a gallant officer had said that the French ships had much
increased in efficiency, but he would answer for it our ships
were, as much superior to the French as they were in
1790. Sir R. Stopford said that the report of the supe-
riority of - the French ships was unfounded, and his
lamented friend Sir F. Maitland had said that as far as
regarded the working of the ships, his own ship never had
any difficulty, and unless foreigners had adopted a new
system, we must be, greatly superior to them. Now with
respect to the observations of the Noble Lord, as to
Russian ships, and his statement that the Russian
fleet was in a wonderfully efficient state cone
.setlering the little practice it had had. The Noble
Lord did not remember that if their fleet was, not
mamnuvred in the mariner it was, they would have no
navy at all—but that was a different state of things to that
el* this great maritime country, which had no less than
21)0,000 registered seamen, and with respect to the Tily-
Loeuvring of our ships, whenever there were 12 sail of the
line together in the Mediterranean for any length of tithe,
they must always be manoeuvring, which would constantly
keep them in an efficient state for any service they might
he called upon to perform. Now with respect to the num-
ber of men of which the Noble Lord complained of having
no information. As for the necessity of an increase the
fact was, that it was decided, after great consideitation
with Sir Thomas Hardy, that a certain number of men
were required, from which a small reduction had been
made, and in that manner the ships in the Mediterranean
squadron were manned. He would not go into the dis-
cussion whether or not it was better at preserit to have a
fell war complement, but surely there could not be that
state of things that, without negotiation or preparation, we
could be plunged in war. It was very true that our Admi-
rals would rather go into action with five well-manned
ships than six ill-manned. But there was no want of
good men, and especially of young men, brought up to
fishing ; and in the sea-ports, with landsmen, there
might be got in a short time more than enough. In the
stmt manner in the East Indies, they could get any num-
ber they wanted, as the merchant-seamen were constantly
quarrelling with their captains, and going on shore, and ten-
dering their services. It was the same in the West Indies;
and our ships seldom returned without being full of men.
The Noble Lord had also talked of the necessity for a force
upon our own shores for our protection ; if it were neces-
s-try it might be had—for there were a considerable number
of ships, and no less than eight ships of the line had been
in our parts last summer, and they were by no means short
of complement, but as the ships of our merchant marine in-
creased, they required a much larger number of men,
which, if required in the navy, as they could not serve in
both, the merchants were in the habit of raising their
wages to induce them to enter their service—hut
it was quite unnecessary to enter into that discussion.
Having mentioned the subjects of armament and comple-
ment, which he had done because his Hon. Friend the Se-
cretary for the Admiralty had not, it was hardly necessary
for him to say anything more ; but with respect to the size
of ships, so long as they had so large a number of line-of-
battle ships he must express his regret at the manner in
which the superiority of frigates had been urged. There
never was a time when France bad larger ships than ours,
and it was much better to use small line-of-battle ships
than to cut them down to make them frigates, for he
maintained that they were more effective, and he certainly
thought it was by no means necessary to follow.the plan.
of the French in building large frigates when line-of-battle
shies were more effective. The Right Hon. Member for
Stamford had stated that the ships in the Mediterranean
were short of the complement assigned them; he could only
say that was not the case, for 'when, a few days ago, an
opportunity had offered of sending men there, it was found
that, of men and boys, they had a supernumerary number,
and he perfectly agreed with the Hon. Baronet that those
ships ought to be kept with a full complement. Some
other observations had been made, and questions put, by
the Noble Lord, but he regretted he did not remember any
more at that moment.

C3ptain A'CO URT said that in bis opinion the ap-
pointment of Admiral Fleming was among the most
shameful abuses in the history of official appointments. - He
a4ced what were the services which entitled him to that
di,tinctien ? It was painful to him to make these obser-
vatiens, hut they were forced upon him, and however pain_
fel it w,1% he would not shrink from his duty. If the
Governorship of Greenwich Hospital were, as it had
always been considered, an honourable retre.t for wounded
flsg officers, Admiral Fleming had no earthly claim, for
however long and painfully he might have served, he had
never paitaken in an gallant action in the last war, and
was therefore clearly ineligible, when be saw many gal-
Isnt officers who had then fought and bled, who
stood senior to him. He would venture to say,
that no act had ever created greater dissatisfaction in tre
navy than this appointment; and how could it be other-
wise vv..ien they saw the great object of their ambition,
which they thought' was only to be obtained by gallant ser-
vices, bestowed upon an officer who had never had the
good for une to distinguiSh himself in action. If, indeed,
as was said by a Noble Lord in another place, distin-
guished gallantry in naval, officers was to be no recom-
mendation, cr only a secondary one for the Government of
Greenwich Hospital, it had better be abolished as a use-
less sinecure, than made the reward of political services,
With regard to the state of the navy, in hiS opinion, our
shores were unprotected, while abroad our ships were too
few and too small. How could it be thought
th&t. our 75-gun ships, ill- manned, could be placed in com-
petition with the 85 or 90-gun ships, with full comple-
ments, of the Foreign Powers ? It was unjustifiable and
cruel to place British seamen in a position where, what-
ever their zeal and skill might be, they could not have the
i:bysical power to uphold the glory and - honour of their
c: untry.—(Clicers.)- f 1 the the occurrences
is the Amt,ican woe wt,. the eves of
ciuntrymen to the impolicy .of expc,:i,6 our 'small ships to
the superior ones of the enemy. Then as to the manning,