The Sun.
London, England, 1841-04-30 00:00:00

MORNING EDMON..

sent and last session of PariLement they heard a great deal
of the abuses which were aileg
ed to attach to the
present system of registration in Ireland, and
distinct charges of fraud, personation, and perjury
were brought forward, as connected with that
system. He (Lord 111orpeth) thought that the ardor of
complaint on those topics had been materially dampeti
since the Government brought forward a Bill which would
go so effectually to remove the evils complained of. 11, how-
ever, the evils existed to so great an extent as bad been
alleged, petitions complaining of undue returns of Mem-
bers to this House would be presented, and Election Com-
mittees would be appointed to try those petitions.
Now, from the passing of the Irish Reform Bill only two
Election Committees had heard and determined petitions
of that nature, and he (Lord M.) believed that in no
one of tteese were the charges of fraud, persona-
tion, and
ps2rj ticy substantiated. (Hear, hear.
If he wanted a proos
of the present system he might refer
to the recent proceeding; )
in the Registration Court of the
Queen's County—( Hear,
h,.-,,r)-:-part of which they had
learned, and a good deal more ol
which they might havebeen heard had they been able tt; be on the spot.
—.(Hear, hear.) What he contended for Ras, and it was
a principle which had not been controverted by !).ny one
in the course of the discussion, that it would in itself be
advisable to take the franchise out of the province of opi-
nion to which it was now confined, and to ascertain it by
some fixed and independent standard of value. But then they
had to determine bow the test was to be applied. They might
have an application, very good in theory, but they should
look for some practical measure. In what mode then was it to
be applied ? They might apply the test of rating above
rent—that was to say, the test of profit appearing on the
rate above rent and charges. That was the measure
which was brought under discussion the other evening by
the amendment of his Noble Friend the Member for
Northumberland; but ho flatteredehimself he had demon-
strated—and if the proposition were disputed he would
again be ready to lay before the House irrefragable
grounds tier showing that such a test would not only effec-
r almost the whole existing constituency of
ually
Ireland, but that it would go so far as to prevent the possibi-
lity of forming any futere constituency. But if they had not
tee profit of rate above rent they bad another option, by
taking a certain amount of rating without reference to
profit or to a lease or tenure. ;2e would not enter into
the discussion which occupied them last night, as
,
to whether it was expedient in an; count y, and
especially in a country situated like Ireland, to
dipeese altogether with the necessity for a least of
some period or another ; but the Honourable Member
for Halifax bad stated yesterday, as be (Lord Mot peth)
bad understood him, that the extent of the conjoint pro-
pesitien which his Noble Friend the Member fop-
Northumberland hal brought forward, would not
effectually disfranchise any of those parties on
whom his Bill would confer the franchise.
He now asked what was to become of all the present
veeers between those registered at 81. and those at 20/
By the proposition of the Government, out of 1,794 voters
in ten unions of the Queen's county, in that class 138
would be excluded...(llear, hear.) Now, of these
1,794 the franchise proposed by his Noble I-' lend
(Lord Howick) that as the excess of rating above recta
would net save one—(Cheers)—the additional franchise
of his Noble Friend, as proposed in another clause,
would save but three.—( Loud cheers.) The whole
result cf the conjoint qnalifications of his Noble
Friend would be to disfranchise 665 electors
in those ten unions, whereas the measure which he (Lord
Morpeth) bad introduced would disil-anehise only 135.
It appeared to the Government to preaa,rve the tenour of
the Reform Act, and to test that by the rating:. The amount
and
of rating in the Bill as it now stood vra.e
.Ben / ,
and
the Government had been subjected to imputates,
charges, and taunts, for departing from their first views ,
and raising the rate from 51. to 81. Now, although :,,!-
putations of change of mind seemed to bring down ridieta.'
in that House, yet the present Government, and 11 those
who took part in its politics, never hesitated to adapt their
measures to public expediency and the views of Parliament.
Tile Right Hon. Baronet opposite had seen fit to change
his opinion with respect to the Test and Corporation Acts,
whilst the Noble Lord, the member for North Lancashire
had thought it advisable to change from a loan of fifteen
millions to the West India planters to a grant of twenty
millions. He found from the information laid before the
House with respect to the Cashel Union, that the beneficial
interest of a Si. rating, using that term to denote the clear
annual profit actually accruing after paying all ex-
penses of rent, taxes and labour, was twelve pounds.
In Roscrea the beneficial interest of a rating of Si., after
deducting rent, taxes, and an expenses, was about 15/.
per annum. A rating of Si generally carried with it a be-
neficial interest of from 12/. to 201. per Annum. There
was nothing very prepostrous, therefore, in the ori-
ginal proposition of a 5/. rating. At the same
time, they thought that they were bound teitlaia the
limits of what they considered admissible in pein-
ciple and in justice to the rights and interests of the
Irish people, on whose behalf they were legislating,
to pay regard to the scruples of some to. whom they felt
a deference, and therefore it was they had raised the
amount from 51. to 81., hoping thereby to remove the ob-
jections of those who, whilst they agreed in the necessity of
exieg the rating with reference to the Poor-law valuation,
apprehended too great an extension of the electoral body.
Therefore, the proposition placed in the hands of the
Chairman was that of an Si. annual rating. Now he found
that in 14 unions is which tney had been tble to ascertain
the matter, that of persons valued at the amount of
from 8/. to under 91., the lowest class of persons admitted
by the Bill, the average number of acres in this holding
was 199. In the union of Lurgan the average num-
ber was 7, in Longford 8, in Cashel 12, in -Naas 13,-
in Sligo 19, ia Cotehill 11, in Gorey 17, in Kilcale 14,
and so on; therefore he (Lord Morpeth) thought those
electors were not of the sordid description that was some
times described. He admitted that even the franchise
of en annual rating of 81. might disfranchise a slum-
ber of existing la electors ; but on the other hand
this would be counterbalanced by the addition; t 3
r. gistry, and by the facility given to the whole system
of registration. And this was his main motive
for asking the House to consent to the principle, not of
franchising or disfranchising a given number, but of cer-
tainly affording to the electors the means of easily
getting and safely keeping—(Cheers)—the privileges
to which they were entirled—(Cheers)—and, on the other
hand, of avoiding all that ehicauary, cunning, deceit, and
fraud which on the other side of the House was always
ai:eged to attach to the present system of re -
gistrraeen, and which, in a greater or less degree,
must attaeh to every system in which they did form a
standard of value, but left it to be decided by the adverse
testimony of contie"ting parties.—( Cheers.) The point,
therefore, to which
,he was endeavouring to call the
attention of the House was that the circumstances
connected with the state of ti`' franchise, and the state of
the registration now establieheel in Ireland did most
powerfully recommend the adoption
of some settled, im-
partial, and extrinsic standard of value, .and that no stand-
ard could be more proper or suited ,' the purpose
t this could
than the valuation under the Poor-law, and the
retain the
be settled in a mode so effectual as to ~resent,
same class that enjoyed the constituency o, 1
and to keep up an adequate number as the
mode
proposed in the present clause.—( Hear, bear.) To leaee.
the franchise in the state it now was, that was the object et
iha precious statostnanship which, at the same time, did not
scruple to decry this mode of dealing with the Irish ft an
chive as detrimental to the hest interests of the country.
He certainly heard with disappointment and regret, in the
course of the discussions which had arisen upon that Bill,
that the Right Hon. Member far Tamworth had thrown
himself without reserve into the impetuous course chalked
out for him by his Noble associate (Lord Stanley).
—(
Loud cheers and Daughter from the Tories.) It
was most certainly only in one respect that he could
venture to put Lim ,elf on any tooting of equality with the
Right Hon. Baronet, and that was in his knowledge of
the country whose interests were under diecussion,with which
their immediate official connection had lasted exactly the
same period of time, and he hoped it was without peesumption
gm- i tsprtove•raaaslria a
ys
et
triumph
mheavpteht:ittesh
tawrtui tm:ttieo:uhtttatanl
awy wish
tahat
whatever
iwt
itihaet toe see
cause
aeursemhiinigs
hwftorhbi :ebb od-
the
h teo
had now embarked, no very long period of time would
elapse beore he would regret that he gave his consent
to take such a course;
and if he (Lord Morpeth) looked
forward with any feelings of satisfaction at ail, it was to the
day—and such things had been before—not to the disho-
nour of the Right Hon. Baronet, but greatly 1° his credit,
when heSir
• R. Peel) would ccme forward, and ;,ropose
to the House the adoption of some such proceeding
( P
and the sanction of some such principle as that which now
encountered his condemnation. (Loud cheering.
Lord STANLEY—Althougo he recently had givetr
I notice that it was his intention to take the sense of
the house upon that clause which contained the
essential principle of the Bill, and although he had since
ce
taken ro part in the discussions on the subject, yet
would have contented himself by being altogether si'ent
Noble had
it not been for the roble speech just delivered by the
Lord, and for the manner in which lie had misrepresented
the course taksti by those on his side of the House, and
the principles they had asserted with refer..thce to the
Bill before the House, and notwithstandingtic
sneers
of the Noble Lord—(Loud cries of " Ob, arid
cheers) notwithstanding the sneers (Loud ciie3
of " Oh, -0 h !")—of the Noble Lord upon what he
was pleased to term the precious statesmanship which,`
would leave altogether untouched the evils of the Irish
franchise, he would venture to tell the Noble Lord that
he, in common with the great majority of the people o
England, most certainly in common with the vast
majority Of those on his side of the House,
but much more in common with many on the
Noble Lord's side of the House, who either
from personal attachment to the Government, or from po-
litical attachments, supported him in his present course ;
ray, more, in the opinion of a vast majority of both sides
of the House, and an incalculable majority out of doors,
the:conduct of the Gevernment, acting under the influence
of the Noble Lord, was considered as bring characterised
by a reckless want of state smanship—( Immense cheering)
—which did disentitle them to the confidence of the House,
and which had shaken one of the very few and last re-
maining holds which thew had upon the tolerance of the
country.—(
represented both the principle which the House had affirm-
Renewed clic; rs.) The Noble Lord had mis-
cd and the objections taken on his (Lord Stanley's) side of
the House to the Bill of ta're Noble Lord. The Noble
Lord stated that the House by the second reading of the
Bill affirmed the principle of defiling the franchise ac-
cording to the test ef the Poor-law valuation.
The House, in affirming the ply nciple of the Bill,
affirmed that they would permit the 'Government to submit
to thorn and discuss in detail a measure which it was sup-
posed that they had, as was the eiuty of the Government
before submitting, maturely con eidered in its details, col-
lected the facts, and were pre' eared to stand by the pro-
! visions they had. recommen Jed.--(Loud cheers.) On
jhreaiecsltoLr
Lyle
to
oda
basis
Stanley's)
forGn l
oetyvi
icis,r)nsnaidee of t
franchise
t fi ,i,dlre
than
in gat Housebb:t
otteahrtehy
s andtoo more n
f t
he
partiessa °t
ibs
interested nn either side. ',an the cunt racy, in every discussion
that had taken plac a they bad deeliered that it was more
the duty of the Hon. Alembee for Nlallow than it was of
the floe. Member for Ilionaghn, ..whose consistency had
, been so unfairl., imPligrvd by the N Lord lest ;light*
S