The Sun.
London, England, 1824-02-24 00:00:00

NM to know that the House had sanctioned, by a large majority,
the votes proposed for the Army and Navy, and he had no rea-
ton to anticipate a different result when the grant for the
Ordnailte came under their' nonsideration. He helietfed every
poasible research had been made through all the branches of the
'several departments, in order to diminish the expence as far as
was possible, still keeping. the establishments in a state of
efficiency for the service. He would next call their attention
to the last item of this estimate, which was the miscellaneous
service. The amount last year was 1,700,000/. It amounted
iii the present to no lent than 2,611,388/. lie was bound to
suite to the House the circumstances which had led to this
- • increase. He had already adverted to the sum gained to the
-.Eachaquer on secount of the Austrian Loan. Ile did not an-
tac,ipate that the, House would object to avail itself of this up-
eapected treasure, for the accomplishment or a national pur-
poae, which it would have been difficult to efKct under -ordi-
nary circumstances, An Act of Parliament had passed some
years ago, to enable certain Commissioners to apply the sum
of -1,000,0001. for the purpose of, building churches. That this
was a great national object, no man at all anxious for the sup-
-pert of the national religion could deny. The proposition had
:lever been seriously opposed. That it was right in itself he
bad no doubt, and he was confident that it had been produc-
tive of great advantages in furnishing the humbler classes
aith the means of attending divine worship according to the
rites of the Established Church, which means, from the large
,iacrease of our population, were wanting before.. He believed
that great good had been accomplished, hut much' still remain-
ed to be done, and he thought a more important service could
' not be rendered those than that which would be effected by ex-
.. :tending the benetits to the cauntry at large. lle intended to pro-
poae en the course of the present Session a vote of 500,000/' for
-this purpose.—(Hear, hear; and a laugh.)—He was not sur-
apriacal at the manner in which this intimation was received by
one lien. Gentleman, remembering how the subject had been
treated in that quarter before; but, nevertheless, he expected
-the House would be perfectly willing to sanction the grant
-whenever it would be his lot to move it.—(Hear !)—There was
another purpose to which he proposed That a part of this sum
. should be applied. lie alluded to the most desirable and proudest
residence of our Monarchs—Windsor Castle. He believed that
the people in this country who loved Monarchy—Constitutional
allonarchy he meant, took pride in seeing the regal state of the
Sovereign properly maintained, and they would not feel it at
aall inconsistent either with their interests or their feelings,
-that a portion of the money received on account of the
-Austrian Loan should be applied to embellish that noble
and venerable structure.—Windsor Castle.—(Hear, hear !)
It was.not the wish of his Majesty, nor was it that of Govern-
ment,'that money should be thrown away, but in the first in..
stance he must state that great and expensive repairs were ab-
solutely necessary. It however undoubtedly appeared to Mini-
- sters that some alterations and additions were necessary to
be made to the building as well as to the dorriain which en-
circled it. So far from the money thus to be applied being
'thrown away, as an Honourable Gentleman opposite seemed
-to think likely, his Majesty did not wish to direct the
alterations himself, nor to have that duty entrusted to any
-individual Member of the Government ; but it was pro-
-posed that a Commission should be appointed for the pur-
pose, the Members of which shoukl not be selected with re-
. ..ference to party, and thus they would ensure the application
of the money, in a way that would do theth and the country
honour. To this purpose he proposed to appropriate the• sum
-of 180,0001. in the present Session., - and as much more in the
.two following yearn, so that the whOle thus to be expended
should amount to 300,0001. In the course of the debates which
took place last year, in consequence of the grant of his Ma-
jesty's library, on the subject of erecting a building to receive
at, he thought a very general feeling prevailed in the House,
,that in the present circumstances of the country it would not
be well that they should be niggardly in what concerned the
Arts. As a matter of money, objections might be made to a
arrant connected with them. But, looking at their intimate •
,connection with all that went to ennoble man's nature, it
' seemed to him consistent with the dignity and true interests of
the country to give as much encouragement to the Fine Arts
as they could, and especially as they had a fund at their com-
mand from which this could be done without encroaching upon
the resources of the country. The Government particularly
felt this a short time ago, when they were offered a collection
of magnificent and valuable pictures, that it would be highly
conducive to the character of the country to embrace such an
opportunity of laying a foundation for a grand National Gal-
lery of the great works of art. Accordingly a negociation was
opened with the executors of the late Mr. Aagerstein, which •
ended in the purchase of these Pictures, at the rate of 57,0001.—
He had not the smallest doubt, but that if such an institution
had existed in former times, the liberality of individuals would
have furnished it with as beautiful specimens of art as could
he found in any other part of the world. He knew there had
beetrcases where individuals had been desirous of doing so,

an easy matter to grapple -with a mischief of such magni-
tude, but they were bound to, do every. thing in their power
towards relieving it. He proposed therefore to use a portion
of this surplus in commencing a system of alteration in the
fiscal -and Ccimmercial regulations of- the cenntry. • He be-
lieved that it would 'he productive of immense benefits to the.
country, and if persevered in, as. he should recommend, he
had no doubt bur that at the termination of the four years,
over which he had calculated it to .extend it would leave
every branch of its: resources in a more.. flourishing Condition
than it now was. The firstpropositlen he intended to stibutit,
was one which had already incidentally occupied the attention
of the House. , The Committee would recollect, that at an.
-early period of the Session, when he prorfds-enliFinnu al dti tier
upon foreign spirits' a question was asked him as to any reduc-
tion on the duty on 'Rum being intended; and the Hon. Mem-
er fer,Bristol; and the Hon. :Member for Aberdeen' intianated
an intention of bringing up a resolution w'ith the report ; he
then thought that such was not the
,best-mode- of .proceeding,
and that if any of the duty on Rum.was to be reduced, it was
better to make the reduction on the permanent duty, and not
upon that which was annual. lie gave no answer to the ques-
tion, because he thought it 'trot 'consistent with his duty to ex-
plain at that particular period what' 'were the views of Go-
vernment, and not because he wished, to act discourteously
to those Honourable Members. It was his intention to do
so, to reduce the permanent Duty on Rum, as to relieve the
trade from one of the inconveniencies under which it now
laboured. He proposed to place the duties on rum on the
same footing as the duties now paid by English spirits:—
He proposed to take off ls. 10. per gallon to effect that
equalization. He was aware that the mode of taking the
'strength of the rum might prevent their coming exactly to
this result. But it should be remembered that English
spirits paid the malt duty also, which he thought fairly ba-
lanced the account. He knew not whether this reduction of
duty would have any effect upon the dealings in rum, but he
knew it was adopting a sound principle, and,at all events it was
a matter of fairness to give the agriculturist of Jamaica that
relief which their distress entitled them to expect. He calcu-
lated that this reduction would cost the
.revenue. 150,0001.
The next article upon which a reduction was proposed, was
one of which they had heard a great deal. that night. They
had heard a great deal from the worthy Alderman, the Mem,
ber for the City of London, who had pressed very strongly and
very naturally the severity with which the duty he was about
to mention was felt by his constituents--he alluded to the
duty on coals. It was necessary, however, for hint to explain
hiinself, because the first suggestion which his declaration
might convey was, perhaps, that of the reduction of the whole
duty. But that was not his intention. They had heard from
the Honourable Member for Staffordshire, and from others,
objections made to the diminution of the duty. He could not
admit, that because. interests . had grown up .out of duties
which it had been found necessary to impose, that therefore
those duties should never be touched. That argument admit-
ted, the system of our finance could never be improved. What
they ought to do was, to revise the system, and guard against
getting again into the difficulties we had experienced. If the
duty on coals pressed with severity on particular parts of
the country, where it amounted to six shillings on the chaldron,
the impost was particularly severe on London and its vicinity,
where the duty amounted to no less than nine and fourpence,
He proposed to take off three and fourpence, and at the same
time to remove the existing restrictions. on the importation
into London of inland coal by canals or by the Thames. At
present no inland coals could come to London by the Thames
without paying a duty of ten shillings per ton or chaldion, he
knew not which, but the duty amounted to a prohibition.—
Coals brought by canals paid a duty of seven and sixpence, and
only fifty tons could be admitted,—(Hear!)— This was a most
absurd and unmeaning restriction.—(Hear, hear !)—He could
not for his soul see the use of it, while coals imported to Lon-
don were saddled with the charges he had mentioned. But
giving up above one-third of the duty upon sea-borne coals, he
could not see any grounds for limiting the importation of in-
lend coals. That this would be beneficial he could not doubt.
It would diminish the power which some individuals exercised
to enhance the price of coals by proportioning the supply to
the wants of the consumer. The coal owner might have a right
to do this, but the Government had also a right to say to the
consumer, we will give you an opportunity of getting a sup-
ply from another quarter. This he calculated would increase
the consumption both of inland and sea-borne coals, so that
the reduction of duty would not be so great as might at first
be supposed. The reduction in the first instance would be
200,000/., but the real presumable loss to the Revenue he
took at about 100,0001. In the early part of what he said, he
had alluded to the liberal policy lately acted upon in matters of
Commerce. That policy he wished to see followed up. 'Vari-
ous branches of our trade were at present fettered ; on the one
hand, with high duties, and, on the other with restrictions
of a directly opposite tendency. Among them was the article
wool. As the law now stood the duty on the importation of
foreign wool was sixpence per pound, having originally been
no more than a penny. The high duty was imposed in 1319

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not as a protection; for our trade, but for the improvement of
and . there. was now one high-spirited personage, whoile-col-
told that
section indicated the finest taste, and whose liberality in re- atFece-,13 SeS the revenue. But the party opposing
Of CD OCZ ,P. e'2 they ought not to complain, so long as there was a prohibiting
Bard to it was well known, ready to make that offering to his
leelee'ceSee.. Se' duty by which the wool-grower was confined to the cohsump-
country. And' when such an institution was established,
C.7.C,00=
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that duty was
and that when they consented f.nglishmen, while gazing upon its contents, would have the
In these calculations he for the most part took the income of removal of these restrictions, we will then propose the re-
proud satisfaction of reflecting upon the fact, that they were
peal of this duty. After Mud; discussion the majority of those
the country at what it was now, but it required some ex lava- interested in the question had acceded to this compromise, and
not composed of the rifled treasures of plundered places, or
the spoils of violated altars. The sum proposed would be tion why, after stating that he id not look for a large increase in consequence it was intended to reduce the duty on
60,0091. to effect this object. If the House sanctioned the in the consumption of excisable articles he should make the Foreign Wool from sixPehce to one penny, and to allow a free
expenditure he had thus proposed, there would be a remainAeng, years 1826 and 1827 give an' increase under the head of Excise export of English Wool with merely a duty of one penny
surplus upon the two years, amounting to about 2,763,00 u" over the present estimate of 200,000 e, He had said that to make it equal. Their sweeping away of these restric-
But before he proceeded to explain to the House the view which the improvement already made in the collection promised an tions, he was confident would prove most beneficiah to
the Government took of the mode in which that surplus should increase of 50,0001. There were other items which inter- grower and manufacturer, and he looked forward to abet great
be rendered available, he felt it his duty to bring under their cepted the Customs in their progress ; he alluded. to those extension of our wollen trade as the certain consequence.
eensideration that which most materially related to the Act be- bounties which had been granted for a number of years, and The inmiediate loss to the revenue he took at 350,000/. The
fore the Committee. The Committee were aware that the state which it had been customary to renew at various periods. next proposition to which he should call the attention of the
of üblic credit was such as very much to reduce the interest Be particularly called the attention of the House to the Committee, was one which appeared to him of peculiar impor-
of money; and looking to the situation in which the counts
Y bounties on the Whale Fishery, which would expire next twice, as it related to the restrictions on the trade in silk. At
stood with regard to her foreign relations—when there were no year. He held it to be utterly useless to call on the country present the Committee were aware that a high duty
.was im-
visible grounds, and as far he believed no invisible grounds— to give 50,000/. for such a -purpose as this, though a large posed by law on the raw material, and there was a positive pro-
upon which that situation was likely to be changed, it became sum compared with the whole capital rrquired to carry on hibition on the use of any silken article of foreign manufacture.
the duty of the Government to endeavour; to avail themselves a whale fishery-was so trifling that the granting ofit could an- On the last occasion when this subject was discussed, lie had
of the low rate of interest to effect a reduction of that branch swer no good purpose. The other Bounties he would deal with asked what advantage would they promise themselves from keep-
of expenditure which allowed the high rate of four per cent. in the same way were those for curing herrings, enc. These ing up thisprohibitory.duty ? What good, he would now inquire., The- amount of the four per cents. was about 75,000,000/. It : 1
m.gat be very well years ago when our herring fishery had yet could they discover arising from its operation, either as it re-
was necessary, in the first place, for the Government to consi- to get a reputation that would enable it to make its way in the garded our interest with foreign nations, or our manufactures
der how the law stood with yespect to this stock. This was a markets of the world. Such was no longer the case. From at home ? There bad Prevailed for some time, on the part of
thatn as the law respecting it differs essentially from the attention paid to our fisheries those engaged in them were the most eminent statesmen and the most distinguished writers
that point,cy had to consider when reducing the 5 per cents now capable of entering into successful competition with on political economy, an °Pinion that the prohibitory system
There had exised no obligation to give any notice to the holders their ancient enemies, the Dutch • and under these circum- on which our commerce had heretofore been conducted was
of that Stock of the intention of Government to pay it off. In stances, he thought policy required that the bounties in titles- impolitic. In consequence of this persuasion measures were
consequence of this it was competent for the Government to don -should be left to die a natural death. On these heads a now in progress for end to many of the restrictions
take the course which was taken and to declare that all who saving of 70,000/. would be effected. There was another which had formerly been deemed necessary. Were they now
at the end of four weeks should Clissent from the option given class of bounties which, though he was sensible they were to stop at the point which they had reached ? If they were to
them of taking four per cent. instead of live, should be paid impolitic, be still thought it desirable to touch them with a do so, what would foreigners say of the principle on which
off. In that case it was very easy to require the dissent of the delicate hand—he meant the bounties on linen. Every thing England acted ? Would they not say, that while we met them
putting an
in our mouths, we hated libe-
parties, and there was no necessity at all for their assent. By connected with the industry of Ireland ought to be approached with professions of liberality
the Acts of
BentParliam which established the Four per Cents. with great caution, as much as the evil to be deplored in ralitY in our hearts, and that we had no object in view but
the Government strained from paying them off; without this country was occasioned by want of employment for to cajole them into receiving our manufactures, while we
giving at least six months notice. If, then, they applied the the poor. He was anxious therefore to touch this subject were resolute to exclude them from all benefit on which
would not be held. When any
principle of dissent, sir months mint elapse- before' Ministers with great tenderness, but at the same time he could not they
_might fairly calculate in return? It was impossible to
could know what portion of money would be necessary to pay shut his eyes to the inutility of these bounties. The Com- believe that such language
off the dissentients. It was therefore proposed to• give notice mittee he thought must see that if we gave bounties to meet the Foreign Power imposed a new duty on imported merchan-
-to the holders of :our per Cent. Stock, that after six months duties imposed by other countries, we in effect invited those dine, ministers were immediately applied to in various guar-
they would be paid off. But it was intended to.offer 40 all countries to raise their duties to the amount of our bounties. ters to interfere, and called upon to remonstrate
against a
who in the course of six weeks should consent to receive 100/. We ought not to assume that we were the only country in the course so hostile to the best interests of England. What f01.._
three and a half per Cent. stock in lieu of 100 - fours, should world possessed of common sense. Other countries, it ought lowed ? The Ambassadors to such Powers were directed to
have the assurance that their proportions of that stock should to be supposed, could see their own interests as well as we call the attention of the Government near which they resided not be paid off for five years. Those who did not :avail could see ours, and this considered, the Committee would to the circumstance, to point out to them that the impost corn-
themselves of this offer, were liable to be paid off in Octo- agree withhim that such bounties were not only not beneficial plained of was injurious to British interests and wore an un-
bar next. One third of the whole, supposing none to 'as- but mischievous. On the lower coarser kinds of linen, that friendly character. What was the consequence? The Ambas-
sent, would then be reduced, and only fiSty millions of four about seven-pence, he proposed that the bounty should sador was told that England imposed high or prohibitory duties
. per Cents. would remain,
.Supposipz opeethitg of the holders, immediately cease. The bounty on the exportation of on the merchandise ot' this country, and must expect that simi-
le assent to the plan, then one-flare of the holders 'of the finelinens he would reduce 10 per cent.' in successive -years lar measures would bead opted by them. In every such case
remaining fifty millions would be paid off in October. in till the whole should cease, and by the termination of these the Ambassador was discomfited, and forced to give up the
one ease, that of one-third of the whole being paid off; the bounties a saving of 100,000/. would be made, while far from point ; for he would defy the wit of man, under such eircum-
- sum of twenty-five millions would be wanted ; in the other, doing harm by effecting it, he was confident that nothing but stances, to answer satisfactorily his argumentant ad kominem,
supposing one-third to assent to pay off one-third of the dis- good would be experienced from the change of system. lie and justify the call made for the abandonment of the impo-
sentients, between 16 and 17 millions would be neeessarY. He had said he would not calculate on no' increased consumption sitions objected to while our own system of exclusion was
proposed giving diem the option which he had mentioned of ex- of Exciseable articles. He was by no means of opinion that maintained. In such a course there was no soundness, and
changing a three and a half per cent. stock, with a proviso that it an increase could not take place, but he thought it prudent not he was convinced that they ought to take the opportunity
should not be paid off for 5 years from October next, in order to to calculate upon it, lest disappointment-should be the conse- when it offered, and never could a fairer opportunity after
• bring that stock to the same period now allowed bylaw for pay.; quence. With respect to the estimates of the years 1826 and than that which now presented itself for revising the coin-
ing the existing 3 and a half per cent. stock. The holders, he 1827 he thought it would not be too sanguine. It had always mercial policy of the country. It was time to cut those
thOught, would be dealt hardly with, if some advantage were been supposed that the Chancellor of the Exchequer could pro- cords which had hound Commerce to the earth, and let
not given to those who accepted the offer of Government—= duce what results he pleased on paper. He, however, was not her spring aloft, that the blessings of a free trade might be
And he thought it better to satire them front being paid off disposed to indulge extravagant hopes, and he therefore took diffitsed all over the world—(Hear, bear !)—There never was
for five years, than to give them any thing in the shape of a the expenditure, at the same, though in same instances i a time at which such an attempt might be made with gre oer
bonus, as that would interfere with the Sinking Fund, or make might be expected that the course of mortality would reduce advantages, under which the experiment could be tried at the
it necessary to add to the nominal amount of the debt. 'With some of-the burdens which we had now the pleasure of bear- present moment, when our commerce was daily extending
regard to persons out of the kingdom, he wished the fame ing in the provisions made for those who had deserved well of in every direction, while our capital remained so great that
• time to be alloweti to them as in the case of the reduction their country. The result then of his calculations was, that our trade, vast as it was, proved insufficient to absorb it,
'of the Five per Cents.' The result of turning the whole lie calculated there would be a surplus in 1823 of 1,052.076/., and means were still wanting to give it full employment.—
into three and half per cent. in the next or following year, exclusive of the 5,000,000/. applied to-time reduction of debt. This then was the time for starting on anew course to augment
would be to save one half per cent. on the whole twenty-five He expected— the wealth and prosperity of the country, and it was on these
. .
emillions of debt, being an annual amount of 375,000/. If In 1824 -- . £ I 1,052,076 In 1825 - - £477,346 grounds that he had brought forward that proposition which he
Parliament should sanction this measure, he would call on the In 1825 - - - 372,346 Is 1826 - - - 522,346 had now to offer. But, besides what he had urged, there were
Committee :o accompany him a little fa, rther, to see in what Adding these together, he came to the conclusion that at the other grounds on which the policy which he had recommended
situation the nation might be expected to stand at the close of end of 1827 they would give a surplus of 4,135,099/. Then might be preferred. Was it not known, that with all the guards
the year 1827. He wished to carry the attention of the House came the question of what they were to do with i.t.—(A which had been devised to exclude the manufactures of other
to that period—not that he flattered himself it would be in his laugh.) He thought they might do a great deal of good with it ; nations, they still found their way into this country ? Whatever
power to state with any great degree of prophetic precision and he thought they ought to do so, and he thought he should the means used to keep them out, all had been evaded. He
what would actually be our condition then—but in order to find a ready support in the House, in endeavouring to find remembered the Honourable Member for Aberdeen had last
chew what it might be if the country should so long remain the most advantageous way of doing so. The most obvi. year displayed his Bandana handkerchief in that House. He
at peace, with the advantage of the provident cure of Perna- ous and easy mode of applying surplus, was to the re- had raised even within these walls that standard of smuggling,
went to watch over the surplus revenue and expenditure of the deletion of debt. But no man could look to the state of had used it when blowing his nose, and then returned it in safety
-country. He would shOw what situation we might be in at the our Revenue, or to the consequences which followed from to his pocket. The Hon. Member, doubtless, was aware-of it
' period he had nomed, in the case supposed. Should the unfor- that accumeilated weight of taxation which had grown up before he had taken the liberty to mention it to him, that by
hinate contingency of war occur, that of course would derange with the system, without seeing that it was the obvious duty of law there was no other Gentleman sitting near him who had
his present calculation, and Parliament would then; as on all the House to take every occasion of revising that system of not a right to take that handkerchief away from the Honour-
former occasions, appeal to the spirit of the country, for that taxation, in order to place the general commerce and industry able Member, and export it to a foreign country. This the law
exertion which might be requisite to carry us through the diffi- 'of the country as much out of its reach as possible. It was not would authorise, but was the law acted upon ? Certainly not ;