The Sun.
London, England, 1841-03-02 00:00:00

SUPPLY- N AVY ESTIMATES.

Mr. MORE O'FERRALL moved the Order of
the Day for goity, into Committee of Supply on the
Navy Estimates for 1841-2.
On the motion that the Speaker do leave the Cbair,

Mr. HUME said it was his intention to have sub-
mitted some resolutions respecting the deficit:Lt
state of the revenue, as compared with
the expenditure, but he thought it would
be better to hear what the Gorernmer t
had to ray to warrant so large an increase as was now
proposed in the expenditure of the navy under the
circumstances in which we were placed.—(Cries of
"Hear, hear.") It was perfectly well known that for
the last four years the revenue had been deficient as
regarded the expenditure, in round numbers, four.
millions sterling. The returns made on the motion,:
the Hon. Member for Harwich, showed the
t
-
irregular manner in which this deficiency hachb)eeon.i :cod
vide,l for. But the point to which
the attention of the House should be
a half mil-
that their estimates exceeded by three
on
graduall
lions those of 1836. They
had gone
enotwithstandin,r;
b(eAll3rde:irect directed was
country.—(llear.) Tee
increasing Them since
the distressed state ohf
the
revenue up to April Bth was exactly ,000/. less th's
revenue up to April St
wootwithstanding the increased
year than it was last year, thatcont
taxation. had failed or some mis-
take One of these things must consequently
follow, either the new taxation
regard to the accounts
g was not possible to believe
had taken place with
brought ni).
the whole Customs Department
that in
and the whole Excite department, with an addition
of fire per cent., and with an addition of ten per cent.
the deficiency, and not
on the assessed taxes, there should he a deficiency this
in order to
year of 283,0001. He thought the Government ought to
provideon some way
adding loan
y o f
after supplying
loan,
to goprovide for
this great expenditure. It appeared to him the
House ought to consider if there was
any necessity
for continuing this large expenditure at the pre-
sent moment. We had secured what the Noble
Lord and his colleagues had
gone so madly
about in Syria, for a great part of this exi ease
had been incurred there, and they had been told by

EV ENING _EDITION.

the Queen's Speech tlier object was attained.' It
clearly there ought to Lea decrease hi our exponditute,
instead of which tlie7e was a co7isieerahlu increaie to
be voted for our naval and nii!itiry force. He had
as he had said brought down sum! resolutions to
submit to the House, but it had been suggested
to him it would he better to hear the Govern-
ment statement, and then t 3 print his resclution=',
and take the sense of the House upon thav
He was determined to submit his propositions to tt
House, unless he heard to•nigbt some vary satisfactory
reason to the contrary.

Tne House then went into Committe', when •
Mr. MORE O'FERRALI, rose to propose the
Navy Estimates for the ensuiug year. Before, how-
ever, he went into these estimates he would
state the balance sheet of the year ending the
31st of March, 1840. Tee excess of expenditure
for that year was 29.694/. This was the first vote
for which he had to move ; and it was right that he
should state to the Committee the circumstances which
rendered that vote necessary. (The Hon. Member was
I.eard with difficulty amidst the noise of Alemhers moving
from their places and the cries of " Order." Mr. Hume
called out, " I nish tl e Right lion. Genfernan would
speak up—we can't hear a word.—Hear.) Mr. °Ter-
ra!: proceeded—Previous to the year 1832, the
balances of former yt ars were klt in the Exchequer
and were applied by the Admiralty to such purposes
as the Lords Commissioners thought proper, isad occa-
sionally they were made available for such emergencies
as occurred last year. That was considered a
great abuse ; and was strongly condemned by the Right
Honourable Baronet the Member for Pembroke, inas-
much as the Admiralty took upon themselves to apply
the money voted by Parliament to purposes different
from those for which they were designed. When the
Right Honourable Baronet was made First Lord
of the Amoiralty he applied hirntelf to se.
medy the abuse, and the Act of 1832, the
Ist and 2d '.William IV. c. 40, was passed, in
the 30th section of which it was provided that
the balance sheet of each year should be seat in the
month of November to the auditors, that they might snake
upon it what cornine4 they thought fit. But the Act
did not provide for the disposal of tl.,e utaepropri-
uteri balance ; and it became a subject of
arrangement between the Treasury and the Admiralty.
If ,any improper expense had been incurred by the Ad-
miralty, they could be brought to aceouet for it by
the House, and he was ready to defend their conduct on
that head. Ile first vote wets ford sun of 29,694/.
excess of rxpenditto e for the se tr ending the
Slst of March, 1840. That balance on a sum
of 5,000,000/, would not, be thought, be considered
a large one, especially' as it was impossible for any one
to c, leulate precisely the t xtent of such an
expenditure. The second item would be a
suppliance tal vote for tile sues of 161,500/.
Ile should observe, that in August, Ser tenther, and Oc-
tober last, gre, t (motions wets 111,LIC i.l i li our dock-
yards, selmen were taken frarn all the to tot-vv.?, find
,ant 0, t cry 0..• of
Feet -eels et 0 time 5,11..0 vet ::;11,0:.;,:0:e to
font dily to oev 1V:;.1t
-I,U!' i:!erk:t.l,,i ntr.
Goverronent, finchog that this was the'ease, was
obliged t a increase our forces.. The Aletliterrare an
fleet was incretaed, transperes were obliged
to be taken up for the convey aree of
reinforcements to the colonies, and the vvhule of that
service had beau pet formed with at excess over the esti-
metes amounting only to 161,900/. Ile therelore hoped
that the Government would not he considered to have
acted improperly. Ile now came to the Ettimates of
the present year, and he should feel under censieereble
difficulty in approaehing the subject, as he vc as
about to ask the Committee for at large increase,
if Le did not recollect that for the last six
ears, whenever the Navy Estirnatt s had been
brought forward, the Governmeta hail been it inieJ fur
not aski2g ennugh.—(llear, he tr.) Toe Govern-
meet l.ad not been ii.flienced by those attacks to
cciv for more than they thought w%ls rr quired—neither
would they he presorted from asking for a large
increase tvtere they thought it might be necessary. In
bringing forward the estimates be 5110011 cautiously
absiain from the introduction of any topics whiels
did not properly belong to the Estim it's, beheeing as
he did that the question of th,-! N...vy Estimates should
be disett&e.l w:thuut anything 113 patty feeling,
as a question which visa interesting to all men of
all parties throughout the nationa--( Loud cheers.)
Ile would commence by stating the siumber of ships
is comtnisien. In January, 1840, the number of ships
in commission amounted to 239, and in Jinuary, 1840
the ships of ell sorts in commission amouLtacl to 242 ;
making an increase of tire.; only in the number of ships,
although there was • a large increase in the number
of men. In January, 1840, the number 0f Oman' 'em-
ployed, amountel to 37,165, and in January, 1841,
they amounted to 43,000, being an iucrease is the
number of ins n of 5,835, 1,500 el ahem villein were
marines. The excess of the gross estimates this year
over the estimates of lest year emounted to
709,050/. The credits in aid Loa rear amounted to
195,5001, and this year the creli•s in aid would only
ae:eunt to ISS 812/., so that the total excess of
this year would amount to 766,641/. He would
now go into the different heads of expendi-
ture, and proceed to show the different pur-
poses for which the additional cotes were proposed.
The next two votes were 3 aid 4, the klnairdty-oflici
and the te4istry of merchant seamen. In tho. e there
w.s a small diminution of expenditure. In Nc. 5, being
the seicet;tic branch, there wa-, an increase of 4,414/.,
2,146/. of v‘hich had been paid for site measurement of
La Caile's arc of the meridian at the. Care. There
had been also an increase of 2,2(38/. for survey expenses,
charts, apparatus of the mathematical :malr at the NaVal
College of Portsmouth, aid in the purchase of steam-
engiues, for students at the Naval Co 1.g., and the re-
pairs of the Observat)ry. In Nos. 6 and 7, the esta-
blishments at home aid abroad, there was a small in-
crease in the t'vo votes of 3,281/. That would be
necessary for the repairs at Deptford and the steatt
factory at Woolwich ; and for the additional pay
to medical officers, and the es,alslishmeut of schools for
the children of ma-ice'. It was also proposed to re-
establ:sl, the hospital at the Cape of Good Hope, the
expense of which, together with the salaries of clerks
and other charges at Valparaiso, would amount to
1,140/. In No. 8, the increase %vas considerable. It
was for the wages of artificers in the home establish-
ments, number was
aP o
npiiiecnafs)l,3antdo
tahmeoupnat3emdentto
of 46,78 L ; l
l,
the 4
increased
sh'.pwrights in the yard ; 12,0001. for piece-work and
full pay ; 10,000/. for civil establishments ; and
13,584/. for the increase of teamo hoyo &c. He did
not know whether it was the wish of the Committee
that he should state what these wells were, but tire
was one which Ise felt it necessary to call the attention
of the House to, be meant the sum of money expended
at Woolwich. With reset to the works at Wool-
wich, the Wet Dock would be completed next year,
for which a sum of 15,000/. would be requiied. At
Sheerness the usual suns of 500/. would be required ;
and at Chatham 4,000/. would be required for pre-
venting the accumulation of sand its the river. At
Portsmouth 4,000/. would be required for the sea wall,
and 6,000/. hart been expended on the wall that had been
destroyed by the late storm. At Plymouth tl.e new
dock was in a state of great fort' artiness, and furnaces
for new fires had been erected. No estimate bad been
made of the damage that had occurred by the late fire,
but the amount of the value of the vessels destroyed
was 38,0001., but it would take 91,000/. to ierlace
them. At Bridgewater 'a
sum of 15,000/. would 'be
required this year ; and at Pirmouth it- would recitti!e
175,000/. to complete the breakwater. At
,PestibsOse.
the works that la I been commenced were'in-togfeat
state of forwardness ; and a matter of 10,C00/. wout, be
re4uired for the construction of a dock. -NeWo'fcrtsz
tracts had been entered into for the
fconveyanceniia _ax
to
mails from Liverpool to Halifax, and _Tuonto, lit
the West
Bermuda ; from Bermuda to Nclafir:an.d
atiOg gone
Indies and England, and
for the year was
loc:riTexdtki:e. nd ore ti.e result
taharso,ugtliii a
tthteh
ed inffe:lrtent hog's
bneeecnessntiyade by
sum ciri;t, 'appear large to the
6,614,157/. This sum melotaikasey, but when they
Honourable Member fortt;
which
other nations, tirYsaiasstpanditure. He virould''Ooa.
there was for
expressingP.-1.l•g':
a' hope thst the late' brilliant
recoil cued the efforwtsticid
elude with inwhich
the. navy had so signally
events in the E •ssechatile
'entirely disprovel
if haul e the state-
istiguished itre.
• o made reference to the low stet
-hich -bad oec
mentsss
e, Assertions had Leen ma )e, notin °
of thc of that the onlythe
• but out. navy had degenerated.
House,
He well a
yeacitecteu the blame that was cast upon the
•
Board of Admiralty. It was said that they had neg-
lected their duty, and that in their hands theY of
.thiS country had
charges
dwindled. Against such the
late events afforded a much better defence
than coy
which could be made by the Admiralty,
He did not
el tins for them any grace for having sent out one of ..the
most efficient fleets that had ever come into action ; all
he asked was that the House anl the country would do
them justice, and acknowledge that thee had .not been
unminEul of their duty. The Hon. Member concluded
by moving that a sum not exceeding 29,6941. he granted
to her Majesty for defraying the excess of mipeaditure
for the year ending March 31, 1840.
Sir GEORGE CLERK regretted that be had not
paid more attention to the statements. of the Right
Hon. Ceatlernan—( Hear,' hear)—because no more
important subject could come under the consiateration
of the House and the country than the estimates-now
before it, more especially as they were called upon to
snake good the deficiency of former cstitr.v es, acrd
when there was about to be submitted to the Committee
estimates considerably exceeding in amount any that
had been brought before the House for the last t,venty
years—(Hear,hear)—when they must be considered
a
not as in state of peace, but as if winding up the
accounts after a state of war.—(Hear, hear.) tic
proposed .to confine his observations before the C
am-
m:ttce to the vete now before it, and one 'of a preciitly
similar rature which followed it, with regard to a
deficiency in former estimates. He was precluded
from going into any general observations on the esti-