The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-17 00:00:00

terest on the capital.—(Hear.) But look at the great ad-
vantages which the cotton manufacturers had obtained.
There was formerly .a tax of 700,0001. a year on cotton
in the raw material—( Hear, bear)—and the repeal of ,
the corn-laws must also be looked upon as a
great advantage, as, now the corn-laws had been repealed,
there could be no longer that difference between the price of
corn in other countries in Europe and its price in this
country.—(hear, hear.) Thee would be in the same
position whether the price was high or low.
If the average price of corn in this country was formerly
555. per quarter, and 455. in France, for the future the prices
in these countries would be the same. If there was a time
of extraordinary scarcity—a deficient harveet—and the price
of corn was 70s. or 753. a quarter, the French manufacturer
would not have the advantage of obtaining his corn at 605.,
whilst the English people had to pay 705., as there would be
an equalisation of prices.—( Hear, hear.) These advantages,
he thought, were equal to 700,000/. a year to those engaged
in manufactures.—(Hear.) But ot this he was sure, that all
those who had contended in that House for the repeal
of the corn-laws urged in support of their repeal that they
were the greatest disadvantages with which they had to
contend, whether in China or America, against foreign ma-
nufactures, because they were debarred from using the corn
and other provisions of the same parties —(Hear, hear )
He said, therefore, that the manufacturers had received
great advantage by the repeal ore he cotton tax, and next by
the repeal of the corn-laws.—(Hear, hear.) The duty on
wool had also been taken off. It was stated, en behalf
o! the working men, that the passing of this Bill would
caws' much loss to them, by reducing their hours of
work, and in consequence their wages. Now, as far
as he (Lord John Russell) could judge, the working
men were willing to risk a trial of a ten hours' Bill.—(Hear,
hear.) The manufacturers could not suffer, because they
would not give so much for less work as they would do for a
greater quantity. It was urged, in opposition to the Bill,
that the quantity of manufactures exported was equal to
mills working twelve hours a day throughout the year,
and that if the hours were reduced that the quantity of pro-
duction must be diminished. Now that was not correct.—(Mr.
Bright said it was correct.) Yet he had heard the Hon. Gentle-
man state this fact, in connexion with his own mills.—(Hear.)
There were many other mills working short time, and that
short time was ten hours or eight hours a day. That lisp-
pened very often three times a week, or three days in the
week. He said that the production wes not what it seemed,
but it was diminished when there had not been suf-
ficient employment. It did seem to him, that if
they introduced a Bill fur eleven hours, die conse-
quence would be, that there would not be a strain to
produce the quantity that could be manufactured in twelve
hours, but thet there would be a more steady employ-
ment throughout the whole year than there was at the
present moment. It might be that in a certain time there
would not be a sufficient number of mills to furnish the
demand, but at least he thought it was not the case at the
present time. No one could exclaim that there was at the
present time a deficiency of power to produce all the
manufactures of cotton which might be required for the
demand of the world—and if that were the case,
so far from thinking it an inconvenient or a bad time for
entertaining this question, as they were told, it seemed to be
peculiarly a fit time, because the same production which
they now had in Lancashire and York would be continued,
and that without the addition of a single mill or a single
power.loom to the manufactures of this country. For his
own part he should expect, that if a Bill, limiting
the time cf labour to eleven hours were to pass,
that the general production would be fully equal to that
which it then was. lie believed that there would be fewer
tits and starts. He believed that there would be a more
equal employment, and the manufacturing capabilities of the
country would be brought in force—when it was not so at
the present time. It was said that after all they must look
to the keen competition that was kept up, and they
said that unless they had all the time which they
had at present they should be unable to meet that
competition. Why, if that were the case, he asked
how had these parties been enabled to meet that competition
hitherto. He was obligee to ask that, because they said that t hey
were working under a disadvantage which, according to their
statement, 11;:d overwhelmed the manufacture of this country.
Let them take Russia. He believed that the Russian people
were allowed to work ninety hours to the week. At the
same time, money was advanced by the Government for the
support of the cotton-mills in Russia, which were subjects
of especial favour with that Government. There was
no tax upon raw cotten. If such were the advantages given
to the cotton manufacturer of Russia, he muse naturally ask
what had enabled the manufacturers of this country to keep
up the commercial prosperity which they had done. He
believed that this fact depended on somewhat more than
the mere circumstances attending the manufacture, which
were not in themselves of paramount importance. His
belief was that this country hed derived it from its
genet al freedom and from its manufact tub' g skill;
advantages of which it would not be deprived by reducing
the hours of labour, if these e-oung persons were to work
eleven hours per day. He could say, that in those countries
where manufactures had sprung up, it was impossible to say
that injurious facts had followed measures of this nature, or
that the manufacturing prosperity could at all be estimated
by these measures. He would then take the case
of America. It was said that the competition
of America was very dangerous to this country,
but at the same time he believed that there was a law in
Massachusetts that persons under fifteen years of age should
not be employed more than nine months in the year, and the
owners are obliged to glee them three months to attend
to their education. If there was such a law in this country,
by which every person under fifteen years of age should
have three months' absence from the mills, they would
be told at once that the measure would be fatal
to the manufacturer, and that it was quite impos-
sible to keep up a competition of such a description,
and yet America had kept it up, and he believed would keep
up the competition, and furnish a great part of those manu-
factures which go to different parts of the world. lie be-
lieved that these things depended not on the general
nature of the institutions, but on the commercial enterprise
and manufacturing skill of different countries. It was clear
that such was the case, for Russia, with all its
advantages, was 'tenable to • compete with this
country; while America, which was under great
disadvantage in this respect and in wages, which were 18.3 d.
more than those of Russia had been enabled to compete with
them. He believed that the rate of wages in America were
15s. to 15s. 100.-2 much greater sum than they were here.
At all events it could not be denied that there were great re-
strictions. His belief was, that if they were to restrict the
hours of labour of young persons and of women to a period
not exceeding eleven hours a day, they would find that the
fears which had been so loudly expressed on this subj pct
would shortly after the alteration give place to confi-
dence. They had repeatedly seen that measures of this
kind had been introduced, and they had seen them
obtain complete success. They had seen the people
better off, in every respect, after these measures
were passed. At the same time he thought that the con-
' sideration was so very serious that it would be far better to
introduce a Bill to reduce the number of hours to eleven
than to go on with a Bill at present to limit
the hours to ten. He thought it would be
far better to adopt that which had been proved by experi-
ence, than to go at once to the extent of the limitation pro-
posed. He did not himself, think that manufacturing property
would at all suffer by • the change ; and he did think
that if it were possible to introduce such a change, that they
did owe it to the rising generation to make an alteration
which would be beneficial to them. He could not look with in-
difference to the statement that a great part of the people of
this country had only to work, eat, sleep, and dies—(Cheers.)
In his of nion it was the duty of the State to en-
deavour that they should have a people in the first place
aware of the doctrines of their religion. In the next place,
able to cultivate their domestic happiness and domestic
affection, and, in the third place, look up to the laws and
Government of the country as their protectors from undue op-
pression and undue inflictions upon the youth of the country.
He confessed that he did not see that that object had been
attained, or that it was likely to be attained, so long as the
age
afterem employed in the fectory, corning
home every day tired and exhausted, would be able
oyed for twelve hours at
a t
hours of those young persons were permitted to be protracted
es they had hitherto been. He could not oonceive himself that
a girl
work,of
to do anything but rest, ia order to commence
the labours of the next day. He did not oaudr fourteen
two years
hours o f
under-
stand how such a young girl would be brought
up to be a good wife or a good mother, and
he was wilting, therefore, to incur the risk, in the
hope of improving the condition and alleviating
the condition ofehese people. He might be mistaken in that
view, but he would only go according to what had appeared
to him, after seriously considering this subject, to be the
case. He was, therefore, ready to go into Committee
on this Bill. Lie was ready, when the Speaker left the
chair, to vote for the clause restricting the time of working
to eleven hours. He wished the Bill to remain in that shape,
as he thought it would give considerable advantages to those
persons who were the objects of it. He would be ready to
join those who were disposed to do anything for the welfare
of this country.
The House then went into Committee.
Mr. DENNISTOUN rose to move the adjournment, but
there were cries of "Go on, go on."
Mr. HUME said that in his opinion, if they were to go on,
they had better go on now, fur he was firmly convinced that
the matter would not be settled in the country until the
eight hours were obtained. For his own part, he should
not move any amendment, and he would advise all his friends
to abstain from doing so also.
On the first clause being put, the object of it being to limit
the working in factories to eleven hours each day after the
Ist of May in the present year,
Mr. BRIGHT rose to ask when these hours were to be
taken, for the Bill did not specify when the mills were to be
in operation. He presumed the Bill was to be perpetual, and
therefore this point ought to be settled.
Mr. FIELDEN answered that this Bill would, of course,
be regulated, as to its construction, by the other Bills which
had been passed for the regulation Of factories.
Sir G. STRICKLAND wished to know whether it was in-
tended to limit the operation of the clause to two years, but
no reply was given to the question.
The clause was then passed.

On the second clause being put,
Mr. FIELDEN said that as there seemed a wish entertained
by several Hon. Members, he would propose that the time
fur limiting the labour to eleven hours a day should be ex-
tended one year, and he wished therefore that the Ist of
May. 1849. should be substituted for the let of May, 1848.
Mr. ROEBUCK quite disapproved of the Bill altogether,
but as it was to be passed, he should prefer that the Ten
Hours' system be adopted at once, and he would therefore
move that the Ist of May 1818 be inserted instead of 1849.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL thought that the Honourable
Member who had charge of the Bill ought to use
his own discretion as to what time he inserted, but for his
own part when the clause for limiting the hours to ten a day
came under consideration be should move for its omission
altogether.
The clause, as originally proposed, was then agreed to
without a division.

Upon clause 3 being proposed,
Mr. IIOUVERIE called the attention of the Committee to
what he considered would be the serious result of passing
this measure upon the children employed in . factorie,
ignfooctraucrrrotireilisdee:n
at
tt to by forbidding them to work, and not, at the same
time, providing for them any other kind of em-
-0 Ivrr en', Cr affording them the means of education.
Lord SiOEIPETII would not trouble the House at that
late hour with his reasons why he thought this clause should
be expunged. lie wished, however, to say that he would
greater experience of the operation of such a reduction. It
present.
Mr. reduction than one hour till he had
had been found by a number of manufacturers that the
eleven hours had worked well, and he was not disposed to
Mr. FERRAND thought that what the Noble Lord stated
was a reason wily he should consent to reduce the hours to
ten instead of eleven.
Mr. DUNCAN supported the expunging of the clause, as,
he was persuaded it would seriously injure the flax
trade of the town of Dundee, which he represented. The
Honourable Gentleman entered into some static with
regard to the flax trade of Dundee in support of his view.
Toe shortcoming upon all was no IPsA than 2..33t),(10011)4.
(liiv:,,, (iivi:l,)-4:)1 is one article :ye 11:::i €::-pwl..,.1 only a ,
few Pictes of late, when we used to send out ship loads. If
they reduced the time they would be doing away with th©
whole of the foreign commerce of the country, for if they