The Sun.
London, England, 1841-04-02 00:00:00

7 before the Act could be carried into execution. It would be
impossible to carry on the affairs
of the poor through such
a medium as the vestries. Highly as he respected the in-
dividuals who composed those v-striei he trusted they
would never be called upon as a vestry to carry the Act
into operation. The guardians under the local Acts
would have the same powers as under the present Bill. He
bad heard no voice raised against the proposition where it
was properly understood, and he therefore trusted the clause
would pass without amendment.—(Hear.)
Mr. WA KLE Y said, that relying upon the legal
opinion ef the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Dr. Lush-
ington) that guardians under local Acts would have the
same power under the Poor-law Amendment Act, be
should advise his Hon. Friend to withdraw his motion.
The Honourable Member dfor Lambeth had referred,
as he was fond of doing, to that old system. The
statement read by his Honourable Friend (Mr. Hawes)
was published by him (Mr. Wakley). He in-
spected the Bethnal-green workhouse in 1830, and found
the state of things as they had been represented to the
House.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman imagined
that he ( Mr. Waklev) had taken no interest in the affairs
of the poor; but in 1827 he had been a churchwarden, but
had been relieved from his duties by the Noble Lord
the Secretary for the Colonies, net for their profuse ex-
penditure, but because the Noble Lord bad been solicited
by certain parties to create a select vestry, where the
churchwardens had established open ones. In this work.
house of Bethnal-green he found 12,000 inhabitants, with
only accommodation for 300, and in one room 22 women
and children in the last stage.of typhus fever, in nine beds.
Their distress was so great that Lord Grey sent a consi-
derable sum for their relief. The Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Grote) had stated that the unpopularity of this law had
decreased. Now he should much like to know what were
the facts with regard to the administration of the law in
the City. Many Hon. Gentlemen came to the House and
said the law was not unpopular, but then every now and
then it escaped in private conversation from the lips of the
chairman of a board of guardians that they found no incon-
venience, for the Commissioners did not interfere with
t hem, and thaetthey did what they liked. —( Hear, hear.)
Was this carrying the law out ?—( Hear.) No, the people
were entrapped into their approbation of the measure. It
was not fair that the rules of the Commissioners should be
relaxed in one plice,and straightened in another He asked,
and he should be glad to receive en answer t) the ques-
tion, was out-door relief withheld from the able. bodied in
the City of London ? There would be no complaints if
the law admitted of these relaxations in practice. If the
Noble Lord and Hon. Gentlemen should preteod that they
were not then ab!e to answer the question, he would take
care to procure and supply them with the most authentic
information on the subject.
Mr. GROTE had no objection to answer the question
of the Hon. Gentleman. It was true th t a prohibitory
order had Leen issued forbidding out-door relief to able-
bodied paupers.—( Hear, hear.) But he would ask was he
not justified in stating the case of the city of London
against what the Hon. Gentleman had said ? The Hon.
Gentleman expected the House to believe that the Poor-
law became thoroughly obnoxious since it had come into
operation. He (Mr. Grote) would tell him that such was
not the case. It was unpopular when it was first en-
acted, but was not so now.
After a few words from Mr. ATTWOOD and Mr. EST-
COURT,
__ _

Mr. HUME said he understood the objection was not
to the supply of money, but to the mode of electing the
Poor-law guardians-_a question which was not before the
House.

Mr. T. DUNCO MBE said that the case to which he
referred was that of a union in which there were two
boards of guardians—one elected under the local Act, the
other under the provisions of the Poor-law Bill, and he
wanted to know what they would do with those boards of
guardians, which were perpetually squabbling, and were
as aide asunder as the pules. Rates might be imposed
for the erection of workhouses, repa'n, &c., without the
consent of the rate-payers. He would, therefore, even if
he stood alone, take the sense of the House upon the
question.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House
divided. when there appeared—
For the clause
Fur the amendment 22
Majority against the amendment — 194
The clause was then ordered to stand part of the Bitl.
On clause 23 being put, which proposed to give the
Commissioners the power to regulate the manner iniwhieh
pauper children should be apprenticed,
Mr. B. WOOD proposed, as an amendment, that the
words, " with the consent of the guardians," should be
added.

Colonel SIBTHORP thought that the wishca of pa-
renti should also be consulted. It would be unnatural not
to do so.

Lod J. RUSSELL said that the object of the clause
was to remedy the abuses of the present system. Ap-
prentices were now bound to trades without choice or
wisdom. Trades were thus overstocked, and the parties
could not afterwards find employment. It was proposed
to leave the subject in the rands of the Commissioners,
with a view to its better regulation.
Lord HO WICK said tbs.c in his opinion the clause was
useful and necessary. Under the influence of the guar-
dians, the present system often led to gross abuses, by
the payment in many cases of h gh premiums, and the im-
proper mods of selecting the trades to which children
were to be apprenticed. He could not approve of the
amendment of the Hon. Member for Southwark, which,
in his opinion, would leave the present evils unredressed.
Mr. 13.4AT00D contended that the only judges as to
the propriety of apprenticing a child to a particular trade
were the guardians.

Mr. H—A WES thought the present method of appren-
ticing children highly objectionable. He thought the
Commissioners, through their Assistant-Commissioners,
were more likely to obtain an accurate knowledge on the
subject than guardians. He was anxious for a permanent
supervision of theqate of the apprentices, aadhe should be
disposed to ask the House to consent to a proviso, render-
ing it incumbent on overseers to report periodically as to
the state of the apprentices.
Sir R. PEEL thought that the power proposed to be
intrusted to the Commissioners, ought to be distinctly
defined. What he objected to in the clause was its
vagueness.

Sir EARDLEY WILMOT thoeght the clause had
better be axpunged. He, himself, had a notice on the
paper proposing a clause which would secure the periodical
supervision recommended by the Hon. Member for
Lambeth.

Lord HO WICK said the board of guardians at present
possessed an almost unlimited power of apprenticing, and
therefore the clause was, in tact, of a restraining nature.
It mcrely gave the Commissioners power to prevent guar-
dians from apprenticing children to objectionable trades.
Colonel SIBTHORP thought that the parents or
friends of a child ought to have an option as to the trade to
which such child should be apprenticed.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL would take time to consider
the objections which had been made to the wording of the
clause.

Mr. GROTE said the object of the clause was to put
a check upon the present power of the board of guardians,
and he hoped it would pass without material alteration.
The inconveniences of the present system of apprentice-
ship were severely felt in the metropolitan unions, and the
present clause would remedy many of those inconveniences.
Mr. DA RBY thought the word cla,s in the clause
would create considerable difficulty, as under it cripples
totally unfit for trkiie might be apprenticed.
Mr. SLANE Y thought that some restraining power
ought to be given to the Commiss!oners to prevent per-
sons keeping apprentices who had received them only for
the premiums.
Mr. B. WOOD then withdrew his amendment.
Colonel SIBTHOR P said if the Noble Lord would
not postpone the clause he should move its expulsion, and
take the sense of the House upon it.
After a few words from Mr. SANFORD,
The Committee divided, when there appeared
For the clause
For the amendment 7t
Majority for the clause —69
The clause was then agreed to.
The CHAIRMAN then reported progress and obtained
leave to sit again to. morrow.

The House then went into Committee upon the Excise
Duties Bi 1.

On the motion of Lord JOHN RUSSELL, the South
Australia Bill was read a second time.
On the motion of Mr. E. J. STANLEY, the Metro-
polis Improvement Bill passed through Committee.
The other Orders of the Day were disposed of, and the
House adjourned at Half-past Twelve.

A HOUSE FALLING IN AND BURYING THE
i INMATES. —About twelve o'clock on Sunday night last, the
i outer wall of a cottage-house in Red B,nk, occupied by
a pensioner, named King, and his family, suddenly fell
outwards, with a tremendous crash, letting down the
floors and the roof, burying some of the inmates, and
throwing the others to a divance. The sound of the
crash, and th.. shrieks of the sufferers, soon drew a
number of persons to the spot ; and, by their exertions,
the rubbish was removed, and those who were under it
ex Heated. At the time the occurrence took place, Kng
and his wife, and three children, were in bed, as were
also a female and a male lodger. King, his wife, and
children, were all covered by the ruins ; but, by the
stairs projecting over some of them, and a beam over
the others, there were none of them seriously hurt,
hb
icya da
grt.ihonetehdi
though they were all more or less bruised. The female
lodger was thrown out of thp window, and alighted in
the yard, but she was not seriously hurt. Ttie male
astridelodger,
owl. hao
beamw as ,
by somehoist e d means
into
theor yard.otli er , gotfle
clothes and thenckerrtu•
running towards Hanover-street, where he was stopped
thing
ioen:a. but his shirt, and be immediately set off
and in falling it too
which a female was to ofila e' ho
who
paardna.e
returned,
o. t
The without
cot t a g
ea apparent eanbt
back or.
buildings are verychamberwev however, trot
hgeo
front
s lump
upsl ye
ioif,
A CtilllOUs Telp.—
bed, but she was not injured. 'I he
old and belong to Lord Ducie.—Man-
hesteernga
c:rtoesnlderayPeavpeezeing
last, a boy is an apprentice to one
About nine o'clock on
cheater
msteantiocnrnopflothyieedmianne ine shed at the Man_
the
comned Leeds Railway, got
)
upon an engine which had just
from Leeds, and had been left by the engine a•
improper state, the steam not having b
Pro-
bably, not understanding the engine,luggage train
ngiee man in an
been let off.
.boy set it in
motion, and it darted forward, broke through the wall of
the shed, and fell a height of about twenty feet into the
field below, where it was deeply embedded in clay. it
lay there until about six o'clock yesterday morning,
when
trifling, probably not amounting to more than
2ii it was
w
si. a
Thegveryot out,tr
boyill and it appeared that the damage done to
got off the engine no one knows how, and
has not since been heard of. Both be, and the fireman
are, we believe, amenable to Lord Seymour's Act for the
regulation of railway s.—/Wanchester Guardian.
The Committee on the Designs Copyright Bill
has been further deferred from Wednesday 21st April, to
Wednesday, 12th May.