The Sun.
London, England, 1812-05-29 00:00:00

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE,

take? Lbefore the. Committee of ' the whole House,
.
•,to-whOnt it was AferrM, to. consider of the several
_'Eetitions, which have ' been presented to the
House of Commons, in this' Session of Parliament,
against the erders in Council.'

30° die :4firilis,
THOMAS BABINGTON, P.N. in the Chait.

Mr..SHAW ccalM in and examined.
[Continued from our Paper of Yesterday.]
How do vou account for the want of workmen
tO•execute the orders you received ?—Because the
demand generally waS very great; and all the
workmen that were employed in that trade had
.employment at that time, -therefre, while
they were employed for other manufacturers, we
could not expect to get them to work.for us
-orders were to that extent, that if we Could have
found hands to execute them, the amount would
have heen a great deal more than it
,was.
Then all the stock in hand at that time was
'disposed of ?—All the stock in hand, previous to '
•the fall of 1810, was disposed of.
•
Was not the extraordinary trade in. That year .
likely to diminish the trade in the next year 1--
I do not know that it_ was, most probably 'it was
to supply the deficiency of the preceding years. .
What preceding years do you speak of, besides
the year 1807 ?-1808, and a great part of 1809 ;
when I say years, I do not speak to a month or a
-week, or a day, the whole of 1808, and the greater
part of 1809:.
What numberof workmen did you employ in
1808 ?---About 150.
ll,ow many. in 1810, at the time of this great
demand ?--About the same number, thereabouts.
- . The same number in 1809 ?--Thereabouts.
Were they fully employed in 1809 ?—More fully.
than they are at present, because at that, time we
did expect the market- might be opened, and there-
fore we worked at thOse articles which were likely
. to be demanded for that market. -
In that expectation the workmen were employed
-fully-?=L-Not fully, but more than they are at pre-

sent .
Was there anv considerable stock left in hand
at the . end of 1808 ?—Yes, 'at the end of 'lBOB
there was :there
.was, what was manufactured
during the whole of 1808, at the end of 1808, of
course in stock-, •because we had sent none of it
out - the market was shut against,us during. the
whole of that year.
Was -that remaining stock•in trade taken off in
1809 ?--No, it-Nias not.
,Did any of the goods manufactured in'. Iso9,
remain on hand at the end of that year?—Yes.
" Then-the detnand of 1810 was great,enough to
take off the stock remaining on hand of the two
former years,- and at -the same time the- workmen
could not execute half the orders ?--Yes.
To what'eause do you attribute the rise of trade
.in 1810, after the falling off, in 1.808 ?—To the
suspension of the Noia-,importation Act in Arne-
•

• Is the species of manufacture in which you are
engaged; one in which workmen employed in
other branches of the plating manufacture can be
employed, withoutbeing acquainted with this par-
ticular manufacture ?--S.YeS, one particular branch
of the plating manufacture that is not exactly sad-
lery, coach-work, they can be ; in other braiiches-'
of our business they cannot.
The witness dim proceeded to state, that there
were many considerable manufa.ctories in the
plating 12usir.ess established in America, though he
did not exacjy know when they were Act up; where
they were situated, nor at what price the article
was sold. He does not know how many' houses
in his line there are at;lirmingham, and hethinks
that no part of the Continent could rival Birming
ham and Sheffield. His evidence, concludes witn:
the following question and.auswer
You have stated, . that . your trade_ to America
depended upon the opening or closing of. the in-
tercourse with the United States of America ; do
you not. know that the opening or closing of that
intercourse depends upon the acts of the Govern-
ment of the United States. of America, and not
upoii the acts' of the Government of this Country ?
—That- is a matter of opinion,:whether theakts
•of the United Statei have not Originated in the
acts of this country : I come here more to state
facts, than to state my opinions upon these par-;-
ticular points.
[The. Witness was directed to withdraw.]

Mr. RICHARD SPOONFR, called in, and examined.
In what line of trade are you employed I—As a
banker, in Birmingham.
Are you connected with other lines of business ?

—I am:
What trade ?—The nail trade.
Any other branch of the iron trade ?—No.
Have you,as a banker, any means of knowing
the general state of trade in Birmingham ?—As
well as any, I conceive. • -
In what state is that trade at present ?—ln
most deplorable state. t.
How long have you resided and traded In Bir-
mingham have been attending to the trade of
Birmingham about.twelVe years,
In the course of that experience you have had
there, do you ever recollect a similar period of
distress ?—Never.
Do you recollect the scarcity of 1800 and
1801 ?—Perfectly well. .
Did considerable distress at that time prevail,
particularly among the lower classes?—Very con-
siderable dist:Jess.
Was that distress greater, or"' less, than the
pregent i—Considerably less.
Was that scarcity greater, or less,- than the
present ?-7-As far as I recollect, the prices were
about the same as they are now, the prices of every
article.
You speak from a general
,recollection ?—Yes,
I do ; from a general recollection.
To what do you ascribe the difference between
the pressure of the distress of 1800, and.the dis-
tress of the present year ?—ln 1800 the manufac-
turers 'were hi very-full employ, now they are not
halt employed.
• Could the master-manufacturers in 1800, aford

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