The Sun.
London, England, 1823-10-01 00:00:00

SUN.

WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 1, 1823.

dbcontinue his usual visitations, weilid have item Wo-
per place, but merely Co show that Mr. Mete4i.ee could not be
considered a competent judge eithe( of the moral state of the
village, or of the management of our schools. Now, it is evi-
dent that the question here of competency or incompetency, is
in nowise affected by the reasons, whether good or hod, which
occasioned an alteration in Mr. Menziea's former plan of pro-
ceedings.
Mr. -Lamb objects to the system pursued in our schools. The
school-house is, to be mire, he says,.a eery commodious one,
and the school is liberally supported by the conmeny ; the
children are 'taught singing And denCing, the usefulness of
which he acknowledges; and he was eadsneti with their pro.
grass, till within a short time, since which their religious and
moral instruction particularly, has been sadly neglected, a
" new fashioned and facinating mode" has been adopted of
instructing the children in " a few showy things." such as an.
cient and modern history, geography and natural history. To
natural hbeory he especially objects, tta " teaching children
facts concerning the habits of !Wile foreign animals, which they
have no chance of ever seeing." Ile concludes by expressing
his opinion " that such information will only disqualify them
for discharging with contentment acrd fidelity the duties; of the
station which they may be destined to occupy " Mr. Lamb is
quite 'killing that the lower claws should learn to read and
write, for this is not actual inforrnation,,battnerely the medium
through which informaticin may hisocquired ; only he ninst
object to their ever applying it to such a purpose, because the
knowledge of any facts, which tin not come under their imme-
diate observation, can only serve to make theta dishonest and
discontented.
Mr. Lamb's ideas, on the subject of education, I see, do not
quite coincide with my own. I have jug completed a short
account of our schools, illustrative of the system of inatrifc-
don pursued there, which 1 intend to publish immediately,
and which will give the public an opportunity of forming a more
correct judgment. of the principles and practices of that oyster%
I fear that if Mr. Lamb should ever take the trouble to look
into this pamphlet, he will think we have been making sad
innovations on the good old system of teaching ; for he will
there find conversation and sensible signs--modes of instruction,
In his opinion, most superficial and mittrious—eecommended-
as hiving been found by experience to be eminently useful in
conveying real knowledge to the minds of children.
That Mr. Lamb's present opinions on this subject are not
derived from any adequate examination of the effects of our
system, I can testify, for we could induce the Committee to re-
main to, hear one of the lectures which are daily given to the
children on Natural history and Geography,. only by promising
that it should not continue more than ten minutes or a quarter
of an hour. They declined examining any. of the children on
'those subjects, although I invited them to do so, in order that
they might be enabled to ascertain whether the information
they possessed was merely "dazzling and superficial," or
really solid and useful.
No one charge which has yet been made against us appears
to me more singular than that 'preferred by Mr. Lamb against
Mr. Clegg and myself, whom he accuses of having " tampered
with Mr. Menzies about the alteration of documents entrusted
to his care." I can scarcely persuade thyself that Mr. Lamb
ever believed what he here asserts ; anti I can most fully corro.
-borate the simple statement of the matter given in 'Mr. Clegg's
letter, which appeared in your Paper of last Thursday. It had
been fortunate for the Presbytery and Mr. Menzies, had their
report of the facts corresponded with the statement which we
then node.

I shall now offer a few observations on the latter of the Rev.
3fr. Walker. _ - -

This gentleman takes at once a different ground from that
assumed by Mr. Lamb. Ile does not first state my father's
opinion, and then dismiss, the argument by merely designating
them " radicalism with a vengeance:" but he argues that the
best proof of their fallacy is, ' that there have not been found
trey persons who could see.and appreciate the excellence of Mr.
awen's views." I have forwarded to Mr. Walker, for his p-
rusal, a copy of the proceedings of the British and Foreign
Philanthrope Soeieao, containing a long list of distinguished
and enliOnened Wividstals, who have not only seen and ape
p ediated the excellence of thole views, but have evinced the
atocerity of their sentiments, by putting down their names as
suhscribeni for considerable sums, towards the establishment
of the first community.
Even did no 4uttli document. exist, (andof its existence I:
presume Mr. Walker must have been :ignorant), I on sae
now he could substantiate his assertion, molest be fit,'.. :thee
roughly acquainted with the private sentient:nu of all nay 0...
thee's supporters, as to deduce his opinioh Mon that know-
ledge. He surely did not found the assertion on the circum-
stance that my father has not printed and circulated a list of all
those who are favourable to his views, or who approve of his
principles P
In addition to the above statement, " that there are not to
he found two persons who have seen and appreeiated the ex-
cellence of Mr. Owen's views," Mr. Walker affirms that
" those who agree with Mr. Owen's proposals will be found al-
most solely In England and Ireland." The two assertions
seem to cue to be not perfectly consistent ; but we shall assume
that they are so, and that the latter requires refutation. I
shell therefore be obliged, Mr. Editor, by your insertion, at a
convenient opportunity, of a document, a copy of which I will
tend you, It IS the report of a Committee of the County of
I.ariark, received at a meeting held at Hamilton, when the
County decided on petitioning parliament In favour of my fa-
ther's plans. It will, I feat, be a subject of deep regret with
Mr. Walker, that the gentlemen composing this Committee are
natives of Scotland, and persons of high consideration in The
County of Lanark, and that they have expressed, in the most ,
unqualified manner, their complete conviction of the excellence
of many of Mr. Owen's views. A petition more respectably
signed than the one to which I have alluded, has not often, I
believe, been presented to the British Parliament ; and what
will appear still more extraordinary and laMentable to Mr.
Walker, the names of several clergymen residing in this neigh-
bourhood and in other parts of the County were subscribed
to it. .
Mr. Walker proceeds to direct the attention of the public to
a mandate which the Presbytery addressed to the teachers of
the New Lanark school, setting forth that " agreeably to an
Act and Resolution of the (lettere! Assembly, they strict-
ly required and enjoined them to cause the Holy Scriptures
to be read, as a regular exercise by the children under
their care. And that they moreover required and enjoined
that the Shorter Catechism, agreed on by the Assembly of Di-
vines at Westmineter, be taught in that school." And this
mandate, Mr. Walker observes, " evidently proves the anxiety
of she Presbytery to guard both the teacher& and Mr. Owen,
against practices, which were beliewd to be contrary, both to
the law of the land, and to the law of the church."
Now, however little my father inightbe inclined to recognise
any such right of dictation as is here assumed, he could scarcely
have acted contrary to the injunctions. contained in that docu-
ment. It enjoined the reading of thescriptures, and the teach-
ing of the Catechism. But even the Preebytery themselves did
not venture to say how many times e-week that instruction
should .be given. That the children did read the scriptures
three times a-week and that the tea' teehism was taught once
a-week, viz. on Sundays it is not necessary again to repeat.—
Unlesse therefore, my father had felt dis , out of a pure
trie
dons of the Presby-
tery of contradiction, to countermand e orders which the
the hetrue
teachers had all alortgreceived,
tery were sure to be Adhered to ; an adherence which, I hope,
they will not undervalue on that account. •• .
i now cornet, the visits which the Presbytery made to cur
schools on the eeth October end 7th May last.
Anti here I shall premise that I happened to take notes, soon
after these visits occurred, of the proceedings relating to both,
' being aware that they might become the alt of a disenssion
like the present 1 that it was from these notes that the verbatim
conversation, quoted by Mr. Clegg' as having paced at their
former visit, and for the accuracy of which I pledge myself,
was taken; and that it is from the same source that the follow,
ing statement of facts, eepeding the visit of 7th May last, is
derived. Should I, in any one instance, exaggerate, or even
give a false colouring to 4 single fact, I speak under the cot-
rection of the masters, end of those who were present in, the
echtee at the time. - Mies Howell, be it remembered, had
ceesed to be employed tut the establishment,
- The gentlemen composing the Committee of Presbytery en-
tered the new erneenteeu about five- reinutes; before I arrived
to receive them, and found the diadem's at their usual occupa-
tions. lam informed that in coming into the school, they in.
sternly proceeded in a body to one of the teachers, Mr. John
Davideon, and speaking ail together's anti with coesiderable
violence of language and manner, Inquired, " whether the
teachers had been apprized of this intended visit." They
were answered in the affirmative. " How then had they ven.
owed to neglect having the children arranged ready to
receive them with their Bibles in their hands, that they
might each read a verse or two as panel? The teachers in.
formed tbcm thee I hind directed (which wits indeed the case)