The Sun.
London, England, 1841-08-27 00:00:00

of protection. His Noble Friend said these were not
questions to discuss at the present moment, and that the
question for discussion was, whether the Government
then in power had the confidence of the country.—
(Cheers.) He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer)
did not complain,of the course which Hon. Gentlemen
opposite had taken. He thought they had a perfect right
at the earliest opportunity, and he thought it was their
duty to afford them that opportunity to bring the ques-
tion to a practical conclusion. Whether it was expedient
or not to have done it or not in the way which the Right
Hon. Gentleman had done—whether it was advisable to
follow that system of silence with regard to those great
qUestions which, for the first time in Parliamentary his-
tory, were adopted by a large and important party in the
state—was another question on which he certainly enter-
tained a very strong opinion. He believed the mystery
in which gentlemen opposite had enveloped the course
of their future policy with regard to these great
questions, was neither consistent with real- wisdom
nor ultimately with good policy.—(Cheers.) He
thought that a party who were candidates for power
ought to lay before the country as frankly as possible
the course they. prepesed to pursue.—(Cheers.) Whether
that were so or not—whether it was proposed, as
did the 'Noble Lord who opened the debate,
and the Hon. Gentleman who moved the amendment, to
omit all considerations of those great questions—to per-
form the play, opitting the part of Hamlet—was a subject
for the consideration of that House, but it was one at
which the country would be much surprized. The
Hon. Gentleman who opened the debate stated that a
great party, before they acceded to office, might follow a
system of silence, even on those questions which they
themselves brought forward, and had chosen as subjects
for discussion. The Hon. Gentleman, when he stated
this case, preferred an indictment containing three counts
against the Government, charging them as unworthy to
govern the country. He fairly stated that he was bound
to prove his case, and to bring forward the grounds on
which he considered they were not entitled to the confi-
dence of the House. The Hon. Gentleman, who spoke
with that ability which he always expected from him,
was followed by the Noble Lord (Bruce) who gave
great promise in debate of future eminence.—(Hear.)
He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had :,ex-
pected that some great leader of the party—some
of those who were accustomed to enter into the discus-
sions of Parliament—in whom the Conservative party
had great confidence--would have given them an oppor-
tunity of bearing thegrounds on which they were ac-
cused. He did not wish to underrate the Gentlemen
who had addressed that House, but he thought it Would
have been a more fair and manly course to have given
them an opportunity of hearing those who were their
chief accusers, before they were called upon to enter on
their defence.—(Hear.) He would now address himself to
a few of the charges made by the Hon. Gentleman who
opened the debate. The Hon. Gentleman stated that
the main grounds on which he considered they had for-
feited the government of the country were first, that
they had departed from the professions of Lord Grey.
If that were the case, he begged the House to look a
little at some of the accusations which the Hon. Gen-
tleman made against them, because he certainly saw two
of his Right Hon. Friends opposite whom he should take
the liberty of placing as criminals at the same bar.
The Hon. Gentleman said that the professions of Earl
Grey were peace, reform, and economy. He would
first deal with the question of peace. He stated that
Earl Grey had said that he would always keep the
country at peace. But that must be an error, for it
would be ridiculous in any man to state that, under any
circumstances-, he would keep the country at peace.
Well, he said, we went- to war in Antwerp and Por-
tugal. He said. they were little wars. It might be
so, but where, then, were his .two Right Ho-
nourable Friends ? They had followed as closely
as possible in the footsteps of these two great men in
their " little wars."—(Cheers.) If they had forfeited
the confidence of the country, he begged the Hon. Gen-
tleman to tell him whether he had transferred his confi-
dence to his two ,Right Honourable Friends. If that
were not enough, he world proceed to the next count,
that of Reform. There the Hon. Gentleman stated they
had performed more than their pledges ; for instance,
with regard to Municipal Corporation Reform, not
however, he supposed, from a sense of public
duty, but because it might tend to their own Parlia-
mentary interest. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer)
apprehended, that if any charge was to be made of that
sort, he should, at any rate, share it with his two
Right Hon. Friends opposite.—(Cheers.) As regarded
tho Municipal Reform Bill, they were as much parties to
it as any Gentleman on his side of the House. It was
quite true they were not in the Government at the
time of the formation of the Bill, yet in all its future
stages they were as much engaged as any other person.
Then, were they to lose the confidence of the country,
to be dismissed, to be considered as utterly unworthy,
and to have the meanest motives attributed to them ?
While the Hon. Gentleman sat quietly, his two Right
Hon. Friends were about to transfer the confidence, of
which he said the Government was utterly unworthy, to
them.—(Cheers.) He then came to the question of eco-
nomy, and here he hoped to be permitted to state some
new facts and new figures which would disprove those
vague statements and erroneous financial details which
had prevailed in all parts sf the country. The Noble
Lord stated that they had been guilty of a " reckless and
profligate expenditure." He (the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer) had had some returns framed bearing on the question
before the House, to some of which he would
beg leave to call their attention. He begged to
state that in those returns he had shown the whole
expenditure of the country, whether as charges on
the national debt or other branches of the expeniture.
That triode of givin,,_,P the expenditure appeared to him to
theyldai iavectyNgUallest view of the subject- „Whey
before them they ought to compare what this " profli-
gate-expenditure" was compared with that of former years.
He thought these figures would be the fairest answer
to those vague charges which he had made in the course
of, the debate. The whole expenditure of the opposite
party, far the five years ending 1830, averaged
54,599,0001, and a fraction a year. The whole expen-
diture of her Majesty's Government, since their return
to office, for the five years ending in 1840, was
52,148,000/. and a fraction : so that the average yearly
expenditure of the Whig Government, as compared
with that of the Right Honourable Gentlemen opposite,
was less by the annual sum of 2,450,0001.—(Uheer5.)
He had not made these comparisons with the view of ac-
cusing former Governments of spending more than was
necessary ; he had done so in defence of a Government
charged by Hon. Gentlemen opposite with " reckless
and profligate expendituro."—(Cheers.) He might be
told that the Puke of Wellington's Government was new
in office, and that the last three years were the only fair
years of which to compare the expenditure. He would
admit, what he had frequently admitted, that Ho-
nourable Gentlemen opposite had exercised the op-
portunity frequently afforded them of considerably
reducing the expenditure of the country. Then let him
compare their expenditure with that of the last three
years of the Duke of Wellington's Government. The
average expenditure of that Gvvernment, for the three
years ending in 1830, was 53,462,0001. and a fraction.
The average expenditure of her Majesty's Government
was, as he had stated, 52,148,0001., so that, even as
compared with the three last years of the Duke of Wel-
lington's Government, the average expenditure of her
Majesty's present Governmen had been less by 1,313,0001.
He would now compare the last year 1840, with the
average expenditure of the three last years of the Duke
of Wellington Administration, requesting the House to
bear in mind that in that year there was an extraor-
dinary increase of expenditure on account of the affairs
in China, in Syria, and in the East Indies. The expen-
diture, however, of 1841 was 18,0001. less than the ave-
rage expenditure of the three last of the Wellington Ad-
ministration.—(Cheers.) With respect to the compara-
tive state of the debt under the administration preceding
Earl Grey, and those which had been in office since
1830, he would read a statement which contained data
upon which the House might make a fair comparison.
It should be remembered that in the last five years a
large amount of debt had been thrown upon the country
by the grant of twenty millions to the holders of slaves
in the West Indies.—(Hear, hear.) He did not regret
it, but when they came to compare matters between the
two sets of Ministers, they must take that portion of the
debt into account, although it was incurred in a great
and noble cause.—(Hear, hear.) In 1831 the total
-amount of the national was 838,549,000/. In 1841,
including the West India grant, there was no increase
of that debt, but, on the country, a diminution of one
million.—(Much cheering.) If they had been left with-
out that additional burthen the debt would have stood
isa 1835, at 815,957,0004 and in 1841 a reduction equal
to 32,000,000. would have been effected.—(Repeated
cheering.) He might here be allowed, as it
was a matter of some importance, to observe
upon a subject which had been alluded to in
a manner calculated to lead the public to suppose
that the security of the funds in savings' banks had been
endangered---(Bear, hear)—it had come to him through
the usual channels of information that a statement to
that effect had been made ; but he hoped that the lan-
guage actually made use of had been improperly re-
ported.—(Hear, hear.) He would not now discuss the
question, whether the course which he adopted was con-
stitutional or not, but he would assert, that in no respect
had the security of those funds been hazarded.—(Hear,
hear.) And if the Right Hon. Member for Cambridge
did him the honour of replying to him, he hoped that
he would bear him out in this, that, in whatever he had
done, he had left to the depositors and the savings' banks
the same security as, they ever possessed.—(Hear,
hear.) In comparing ' the conduct of the present
Government with that of its predecessors in re-
spect to the debt, they should look back to the year
1827. In that year a Finance Committee was appointed,
who reported that the supposed Sinking Fund of
five millions had never been practically applied.
In the years 1826 and 1827, whilst it was held
out to the Government that the whole amount
of five millions had been so applied, there was really a
deficiency upon the whole revenue of 645,000/. in the for-
mer year, and of 826,000.. in the latter. That Committee
recommended, that instead of keeping up the Sinking
Fund, any surplus revenue should be applied to redeem
the national debt. That recommendation was never car-
ried into effect, but the surplus- was allowed to accumu-
late. And, in 1830, it rose to three millions. The
Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Goulburn) had
the opportunity of following up the recommendation of
the Committee, but he had not done so. He left a sur-
plus, which was stated at 300,000/, but it really amounted
to 600,000/.—(Hear.) Since that time, the policy of
Lord Spencer had been followed, which was, that the
formation of a Sinking Fund was not the best means of
relieving the people, but the taxation should be reduced
as much as possible, and theactual burden of the national
debt diminished by best enabling the people to bear it,
although its nominal amount would be the same. The
natural result of that policy was, that in cases of extra-
ordinary emergency the Government was obliged to
come to the country for the means of meeting it by an
extraordinary support.--:-(Hear, hear.) If it were sup-
posed that the financial policy was not wise, he begge