The Sun.
London, England, 1847-01-20 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, JANUARY 2O, 1847

After a long discussion, and much confusion, occasioned by
Mr. Howard's determination to take the poll befofe having a
show of hands,
The CHAIRMAN overrated this determination, and took the
show of hands, when only 13 were held up for the amend-
ment, and some hundreds for the original resolution.
Mr. HOWARD again, and amid the utmost confusion, de-
' manded a poll, which Was taken, and the numbers having
been—
For the original resolution, present and proxies 8,140
For the amendment, present and proxies 3,303

Majority

The resolution having been declared carried,
The CHAIRMAN introduced the subject or an amalgamation
with the Liverpool, Manchester, and Newcastle-upon-Tyne
Junction.
IMMr. H. MARRIOTT moved " that power be given to enter
into preliminary arrangements for the purposes of an amal-
gamation of this company with the Liverpool, Manchester,
add Newcastle ; that a deputation be appointed, consisting of
the chairman and three directors, Mr. Wybill, Mr. Collett,
M.P., and Mr. Salkill, to negotiate for that purpose, and to
authorise them to conclude arrangements and report the same
to the next general meeting."
Mr. CARLISLE seconded the resolution.
After some discussion, in which Mr. COLLETT and other
gentlemen took part.
Mr. CRACKANTHORPE moved "that :it would be inex-
pedient to amalgamate with any other campany."
Mr. HOWARD seconded the amendment in a long speech,
which was freqttently interrupted by the impatience of those
present.
Mr. WHITWELL, in an admirable address, supported the
amendment.
Mr. SULKIIILL and Mr. ALLHUSEN spoke in favour of the
original motion.
A show of hands was taken, when the original motion was

carried.
Mr. HOWARD demanded a poll, but it was decided that
the question of " amalgamation not befandshe meeting.
Thanks were then voted to the Chairman, the meeting
separated after five hours sitting.

QUEEN'S BENCH.-(THIS DAY.)
The Cjurt took the Crown paper to-day. None but
disputed pauper settlement and parish cases came on for
argument during the morning. They involved no points of
public interest.

DAIL COURT.-(THIS DAY.)
LIABILITY OF PROVISIONAL COMMITTEEMEN.
FLOWE a V. ROr
This was an action brought to recover the sum of 88/. due
from the defendant to the plaintiff, for work and labour done,
and upon an account stated.
Mr. Wordsworth appeared for the plaintiff, and Mr. New-
ton, with whom was Mr. Hatherton, appeared for the de-
fendant.
The facts of the case were very brief. It appeared from
the statement of counsel, and front the witnesses examined,
that the defendant, Mr. Roper, was a gentleman of
property, and the plaintifl; Mr. Flower, is a soli-
citor. In the year 1846 a railway company called the
Liverpool, Gloucester, Salisbury, Devizes, and Southampton
Railway was started. The defendant, amongst other gen-
tlemen, gave his written consent to have his name placed
upon the provisional committee. The written consent was
dated the 13th of Dec., 1845, although the registration of
the company did not take place for some time afterwards.
The attorneys and solicitors were appointed for the company
on the very day upon which the defendant had given his
consent. The plaintiff was one of those solicitors, and in
the duties consequent upon that appointment the present
expenses were incurred.
On the cross-examination of the witnesses, it was admitted
that Mr. Flower had, by way of showing that he had not
selected the defendant by any undue preference, brought six
other actions for this bill. A managing committee was ap-
pointed soon after the defendant joined the provisional com-
mittee. The sum of three guineas was charged by the
plaintiff for each attendance at the board of directors of the
company. The Cheltenham, Gloucester, Stroud, and South-
ampton Railway Company was amalgamated with the
railway of which the defendant was a member, on
the 13th of December, the day on which the defendant
placed his name on the provisional committee of the joint
co npany called the Liverpool, Gloucester, Salisbury, and
Devizes, and Southampton Railway Company.
Mr NEWTON objecteJ, on the part of the defendant, that
he was in any case not liable for more than the amount
of the bill from the 13th of December to the appoint
ment of the managing committee. He also objected that it
did not appear what number of the provisional committee
were to form a quorum, and therefore many of the proceed-
ings of that committee might have been illegal, as it had
not been shown that the proper number attended.
He also objected that a great many of the proceedings
for which charges had been made had taken place
before the 13th of December, when, although the de-
fendant was in the habit of attending meetings of the
company, there was nothing to render him in any way liable.
Mr. Flower had also neglected to prove the attendances,
which comprised the heavier portion of his bill.
Mr. Justice RULE said that if the Counsel on either side
would allow him to consider of the case until to-morrow
morning, he would decide whether the plaintiff should be
nonsuited, subject to the objections of Mr. 'Wordsworth, or
the defendant should be rendered liable, subject to the motion
of Mr. Newton. The only question was as to the amount.
Both Counsel expressed their readiness to come to au ar-
rangement.
Mr. NEWTON. then addressed the jury.
The Learned JUDGE having summed up,
The jury found found for the plaintiff.—Damages, 171.
Bs. 6d., the amount from the 13th of December to the ap •
pointment of the managit'r committee.
The case of Richards v. I...erd Maidstone, which stood for
rial this morning , was, by consent, postponed until the sit-
ngs after term.

Committee to inquire into the treatment of convicts on
board the hulks at Woolwich.
MILITARY PUNISHMENT.
Dr. BOWRING gave notice that to-morrow he should
move for a return of the number of corporeal punish-
ments in the artoy since the last Parliamentary returns,
made up to the latest period at which they could be
furnished.

THE NAVY.
Sir C. NAPIER gave notice that to-morrow he should
move for a return of the number of line-of-battle ships
which bad been cut down to frigates and steam contract
ships. He should also mote the same time, for a return
of the number of seamen which the Channel fleet was
short of in their complement
ZEALAND at the present time.
NEW .

Mr. B. HAWES brought up the return of the Com-
mittee of the affairs of New Zealand.
SESSIONAL ORDERS.
Mr. JOHN PARKER moved the usual sessional
orders, and a resolution for the arrangement of public
business in respect of orders and notices, and a resolu-
tion for the morning sittings on Wednesday.—Agreed tr.
Mr. EWART moved, amongst the sessional orders,
that Committees on Private Bills, as well as on Rail-
way Bills, consist of five Members, neither personally
nor indirectly interested in the question submitted to
their consideration. This system had been tried during
the last session, and it was found to work so efficiently
that it was at present proposed to extend it to all pri-
vate Bills. It was proposed that the Committee should
consist of five independent, unbiassed, and unpreju-
diced Members, in no one way interested in the
Bills to be submitted to their consideration.
Honourable Gentlemen certainly might object that it
would be better fur those who had local knowledge and
local interests to sit on Committees, where the subjects
affecting local matters were tried ; but he certainly was
of opinion that they would be more likely to be of ser-
vice to their constituents as witnesses than as judges.
Mr. THORNELY concurred fully in the observations
of the Hon. Gentleman, and would second the motion.
Mr. BROTHERTON thought that it would be injudi-
cious to adopt changes in this matter. At the time
when the Speaker and other gentlemen recommended
changes there was quite a different mode adopted to that
now in use. No local Members were permitted to sit
on Committees unless they were present on the first day
that they assembled. There was a manifest distinction
between railway anti other local Bills. There might be
reason why they should have perfectly. impartial Com-
, mittees on railways, where so many interests were af-
fected, but there were many reasons why, in other
Bills, constituents should not be deprived of
the attendance of their local representatives.
The present system worked well, and he saw no ne-
cessity for disturbing it. He should, therefore, object
to the motion of the Hon. Member for Dumfries.
Mr. HUME was surprised to hear the Hon. Member
for Salford speak in the way he had done of the present
constitution of the Committees. It would bemuch bet- '
ter for the feelings of Hon. Members themselves who
were local members, if they were not appointed to these
Committees ; there were always two parties concerned,
and even if an Hon. Member were inclined to "trim,"
he was often puzzled to know how to act.--(Laughter.)
He should, therefore, support the motion of his Hon.
Friend.
Mr. REDHEAD YORKE would give his cordial
support to the measure, as he considered it a reform in
the right direction, and calculated to leave unstained
Vie honour and the integrity of the Members of that
House.
Colonel SIBTHORP thought that every Member of
that House should be brought up to the table, anti
made to swear that they had no interest, directly or in-
directly, in any railway, fur until that were done, he
thought that the honour of the House could not
be preserved, and the same system with reference
to railways, of gross gambling, fraud, and specula-
tion, would continue to disgrace that House.
He wished to have a pure House of Commons and a
pure Ministry, and he had waited long for such and
had found none. He wished to have in the House-inde-
pendent Members, who would work for the good of
the country, and not to forward their private
ends. Until they had such a House of Com-
mons no good could be done. He had lost
ll confidence in the late Ministry, and he had great
suspicion of the gentlemen who constituted the present
one. He would support the Hon. Gentleman opposite
(Mr. Ewart), in order, if possible, to purify the present
53 stem.
Mr. S. O'BRIEN believed that the present system had
given greater satisfastion than the old one, and ought
to have a further trial. It had been said that the public
out of doors wished to place all Committees on private
[sills on the same footing as Committees on railway
Bills. He differed from that opinion, as he felt satisfied
the present system was in much more favour than the
one which it had succeeded. He would therefore vote
against the motion.
Mr. WILLIAMS supported the motion. The prin-
ciple had been already introduced into a great portion
of the business of the House, which involved a large
amount of property. He agreed with the Hon. Member
for Montrose that it was impossible for any Member
who had any interest in a private Bill to act upon the
Committee appointed to consider its merits with any-
thing like impartiality or independence.
Mr. NEW DEGATE opposed the motion.
Mr. BERNAL supported the motion, and deprecated
the practice of hearing counsel with long briefs before
private Committees. Some time since they were led to
believe that all the preliminary steps in private Bills
were to be undertaken by the Public, D.parttnents, but.
with the exception of the Woods and Forests, he be-
lieved no other board had taken any step of this kind.
Sir G. GREY admitted that the principle of the
motion was good, but he should certainly recommend
the House to exercise great caution in attempting to
carry it out. The new machinery used in dealing with
railway Bills, had been found to work exceedingly well,
and he thought it ought not to be abruptly
interferrosi with. It was adopted after a long and
patient inquiry had been introduced into the subject,
and instead of adding to the expenses incurred in the
progress of railway Bills, it had tet.ded to reduce them.—
(Hear, hear.) He was not, therefore, prepared at pre-
sent to make any alteration in a system which bad been
found to work so admirably.
Dr. BOWRING suggested that, after what had fallen
from Members on both sEes of the House, and seeing
that the principle of the motion was admitted, the debate
on the subject had better be adjourned.—(No, no.)
Mr. EWART (who arose amid loud cries " Divide")
said he would be quite willing to withdraw his motion,
but he would give notice of a Select Committee upon the
subject fur to-morrow.—(Cries of "Divide, divide.")
Sir G. GREY said that, in his opinion, a division
would only be a waste of time, as it would be open to
Ewart, even should his motion be negatived, to
move for the Select Committee upon the next night.—
(Cries of Divide.")
The House then divided, when there appeared,
For the motion 36
Against it lO3
Majority —67
IRON SHIPS OF WAR.

Mr. R. YORKE wished to ask the Secretary to the
Admiralty whether it was true that sixteen iron ships of
war had been ordered without previous inquiry of their
powers and efficiency for the service. Also, whether the
report of the Admiralty of France, showing the utter
inefficiency of iron ships for the purposes of warfare, was
not in possession of the Government at the time the said
ships were ordered.
Mr. WARD said the best reply he could give to the
Hon. Gentleman was, that the iron steam-ships to which
he referred, were ordered by tl* House last session, on
the motion of an Hon. Member opposite. He believed
that no report had been made to the Admiralty of
France setting forth the utter inefficiency of iron ships
for the purposes of warfare, and that no experiments
had yet been made by the naval authorities of either
country to test their capacity.
Mr. WILLIAMS wished to be informed whether the
progress of the iron-steamers, which had been ordered,
hid been suspended?
Mr. WARD replied, but was not audible in she ga
lery.

of much more importance than the County Courts Bill,
On the 19th of January it might well be supposed that
the state of Ireland would oeoupy a prominent position
in h r Majesty's Speech ; but even that, he considered,
a eubject not parameunt to the alteration, of the poor-
law. He trusted that the Gevernment would grant
these returns, as it was fully expected that the House
of Commons would grant the relief which was so
earnestly sought.
Mr. BANKES said that it was with great pleasure he
seconded the motion which had just been made, and he
took that opportunity of giving notice of an intention
which he had had previously of bringing a formal pro-
position before the House, and on Friday next, he pro-
pose d to do it in the shape of an amendment to the
motion of the Noble Lord, in which he should submit to
the House a proposition for the immediate repeal of the
Poor-law, which was at that moment doing the greatest
mischief in the country. He held in his hand a petition
from his own parish, which bad been greatly injured in
the county tie represented by the operation of this law,
and he believed that in a few days he should have
petitions from almost every parish in that county,
speaking of this petition, which ho should take that op-
portunity of presenting to the House ; it purported to
be with reference to the least important portion of the
evil, viz., it had reference to the additional burthen
thrown upon the rate-payers, while the more important
portion by far, was that adverted to by the
Honourable Member who just spoke, viz., the ge-
neral injury inflicted upon the poor. He believed
that those who ventured to suggest objections to
this Bill when it passed ; he was one who suggested
many amendments, every one of which was negatived,
and those who promoted the Bill had no conception of
the mischief it would create. For that reason he should
be acting inconsistently with his duty if he did
not take the earliest opportunity possible of sub-
mitting to the House the immediate and total re-
peal of these laws. He should be answered by the
Noble Lord that the question of whether the measure
should continue was one of the subjects which he pto-
posed to submit to the committee, the constitution of
which he should offer to the consideration of the House
on Friday next. His (Mr. Bankes) answer would be,
that during the deliberation of the committee, the
kgrievance ought not to continue if it were in their
power to put an end to it at once, and sure he was that
Whatever might be the result of their deliberation, that
law, as it now stood, ought not to remain another hour
upon the statute-book. He, therefore, concurred en-
tirely in the ptopriety of the motion of which the Noble
Lotd had given notice,- with reference to a tull
consideration of that law. The amendment which
he should submit was—' That it is r ecessary to
enquire into the operation of the Act 9 and 10 Victoria,
chap. 66, passed during the last session of Parliament,
as to its effects upon the comforts and anditit n
of the poor. Such an enquiry must neces-
sarily tend to show the necessity of altering the
statute materially, or of removing it altogether.
With regard to the other subject, alluded to by the Hon.
Member, there was no doubt that some time would be
required before the full information could be obtained.
He would, however, support the motion of the Hon.
Gentleman for that information which he required.
He trusted that country Members would contribute to the
information of the House on this subject by the results
of their own personal experience, and render unneces-
sary any committee on till: subject.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir GEORGE GREY had no objection to the pro-
duction of the papers moved for by the Hon. Member,
but as the Hon. Gentleman opposite had stated it to be
hie intention to bring this matter before the House by a
specific motion, he trusted that the House would not
countenance the discussion further at the present time.
POOR-LAW AUDITORS.
Mr. FERRANI) would trespass on the House while
he called the attention of Hon. Gentlemen to the con-
duct of the poor-law auditors. It wool Ibe difficul to
describe what injustice was inflicted on the poor
by these functionaries. He would be able to convince
the House that it was their duty to rescue the poor from
the clutches of these poor-law auditors. He would men-
tion one instance of the harsh conducted these officers.
It was the custom in the town where he
re3ided to direct the parish constab!e to relieve the poor,
and he was in the habit of providing the destitute with
a lodging, food for a short period, end a small sum to
assist them on their road. But what was the case at
present?—why the poor-law auditors had intimated to the
constable that he should di,,continue the practice.
The auditors of several unions had threatened to com-
mence actions against the guardians if they gave relief
to any person in opposition to the orders of Somerset-
house. He hoped the House woul I take immediate
steps and inquire into the charges which he had brought
forward.
Mr. B. ESCOTT was convinced that half of the miss-
riet resulting from the administration of the present poor-
law arose from the ignorance or laziness of those appoint-
ed to administer it. There was no law prohibiting out-
door relief; there was 'only an order of the Poor-law
Commissioners, and even that was nut absolute.
There were several exceptions to to the operation of
that order, such as caps of sudden emergency,
On a former occasion he asked the Right lion. Baronet
opposite, whether the power of regulatme out door relief
lay with the commissioners or board of guardians in cases
of emergency arising. He said he would take some time
to consider the point, and in a day or two he returned
an answer to the effect, that the board of guardians were
alone the judges of what should be considered cases of
emergency. if so, what right had those guardians to
the poor men, who had los.t their food through
the fAilure of the present year, that they
could not be relieved out of the workhouse.
The guardians had no right at 11 to act in this manner.
Feelin apprehensive that the distress now prevailing
would increase greatly before the next harvest, he was
desirous tha- the poor-law guardians should know the
powers reposed in them, and exercise them in a prop, r

manner.
Mr. SPOONER agreed with the Hon. Member for
Manchester, that the guardians should know their duty.
and the powers conferred on them by the law. He knew
however, that in cases where the gurdians ordered out-
door relief, the auditors disallowed it. He knew of an
urgent case in Worcestershire, wherein the auditors
refused to sanction the relief ; the item of relief was
struck out, and the guardians charged with it.
Mr. P. BORTHWICK agreed with both his Hon.
Friends who had just spoken. The one stated the law
of the case correctly, and the other the facts which had
resulted from its administration. For his own part he
believed the law was bad, because it vested unconstitu-
tional power in the hands of Commissionersthe
facts which had just been stated showed that the admi-
nistration of the law was as bad as the law itself.
The motion was then agreed to.
ADMISSION OF SUGAR INTO DISTILLERIES.
Mr. CHRISTOPHER wished to ask the Noble Lord
at the head of the Government, whether it was his in-
tention on Friday next, to ask the opinion of the House
permanent or only
RUSSELL replied that on Friday night
upon a permanent measure with regard to the employ-
don of Government to ask the House for
ment of sugar in breweries and distilleries ? Was the
empowering the use of sugar in breweries
for a litnitPd period ?
s not intended to limit to any parti-
cular afterwards, if the House agreed to
measure t
ne
Lordal ,
resolutionas
distilleries
rt eh JOHN
et to
i ibi
intention
ei
ini: ;pi
va
the resolution, to propose a Bill for carrying it into
eAwo
NI
ill s
whether
tdEhe
er.
ra t i
the o n
ceuffleacrl'pevrhiiocdh. It would be competent, however, for the
Perhaps
‘v lit it was
ui ,
if they
worthyt
LONG
eoy NhGaodßf,
Hon. Member to propose a clause limiting the operation
whether it would not be advisable, in the first instance,
hear.)
to limit the Bill fbr a given time, and after wards to make
of the Bill.
NAPIER wished to ask the Noble Lord
whether any report had been made upon Captain
it pseirrmcan. ent.—(
Noble Lord had any objection to lay it upon the table
of the House.
Warner's long range,
RUSSELL replied that there had been
Lord JOHN
a report made, tut before he could consent to lay it
CAPTAIN WA
upon the table of the House,
TTI he
NG.) must look over it again.
(LEFT SI

;s in . GreatE dwa
rßdr.is-,
STATISTICS OF THE ROMAN
CATHOLIC CHURCH IN GREAT BRITAIN
CHURCHES AND CHAPELS.--In England and Wales there
were 540 churches and chapels .In Scotland, eighty-two
tehieghltmy-mtawcou.:
besides twenty-tyro sta:ions were Divine servi;cestis.
Cartfhobrmeret;
tGairna,n6d2t2o.tal of Catholic churches and chapel
CATHOLIC COLLEGES.—In England there are eleven
Catholic caws, viz • .-- St.„. Edmends,, Herefordshire ; St.
Peter's, St. Paul's, and St. Cirreg:ry's, 80.mersetshire ; stony_
hLuuaynhscat
Lancashire
b,ireLancashire
Durham
st.
5; c
asSrtty..,
sLAl,aawrye'ns
Derbyshire
ta, ff
yo: ro,
College
Immacu-
late Conception, Leicestershire. In Scotland, St. Mary's,
Blair's, Kincardineshire. ,
'
CONVENTS.—London district, 12.; Central district, 8 •
Western district, 5 ; Lancashire district, 4 ; Yorkshire
district, 2 ; Northern district, 2; Scotland district, 1.
Total, 34.
MONA sTERIES.—Central district, 7 ; Western district 1.
MISSIONARY PRIESTS IN GRA I BRITAIN, ENG-
LAN I.), AND WALES.—London district 135; Central
district, 132 ; Eastern district, 39 ; Western district
68 ; Lancashire district, 173 ; Yorkshire district, 68 ;
Northern district, 61; Wales district, 24. Total, 714, in.
eluding Priests without any fixed rnisssion. In Scotland,
Eastern District, 25 ; Western district, 44; Northern district,
24; St. Mary's College, Blairs, s.T?tal, 98. Grand total
of Missionary Priests in Great Britain, 818. Of the 766
Priests contained in the alphabetical list of last year, only
eight have died, and eight snore have retired or gone abroad.
Exclusive of these last, the increase during last year is forty.

E
We read in a letter fromATihos (Greece), of the
25th nit. :—" There is in the whole of Greece only one guil-
lotine. Wherever an execution is to take place, therefore,
the guillotine must be taken to the place. For some time past
this instrument had been stationary at Athens, as there were
a rat many brigands to decapitate who had been taken in
the environs. The guillotine is now making the tour of the
provinces, and is at this moment at Egribos, where it has
just served to cut off the heads of eleven persons, one of them
a priest, who were condemned to death some time ago for
piracy. Although a great portion of our population do not
regard piracy as a crime, and have a profound veneration for
priests in general, whatever their private conduct may be,
there was no manifestation at the place of execution in favour
of the curiosity. The number of persons present to witness
the execution was about 12,000.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF LORDS, Jan. 19.
THE QUEEN'S SPEECH.
Lord HATHERTON rose and said—My Lords, it is
now my duty to invite your Lordships' consideration to the
Address which I have the honour of proposing in reply
to the speech of her Most Gracious Majesty, which you
havejust heard read. The condition of Ireland justly
forms a prominent topic in that speech, and I am sure
the important circumstances connected with it will
fully entitle me attempting any justification
.of .
(Hear, hear.) For the first time for a long period

of years Ireland appears no longer to he the arena of ;
political agitation. The question, therefore, which we
have now to consider is no, longer a quastien of party
interest, or of party opposition, or of party policy, fur ;
it has pleased the Almighty in his wisdom to
inflict upon th,t country a wide spread famine, I
ueequalled, I believe, in past history, certainly not to be I
paralleled in the history of modern times. It is truly I
an overwhelming itifEction, falling, unhappily, upon
many millions of the population of this kingdom.
The population of Ireland since the year 1792
that is during the last 75 years—has exactly
doubled. The potato, during that period, has been an
article of food in common throughout the whole country;
and it is well known, that in every year that has elapsed
since that period, down to the present time, that the
pntatO has become more and more an article of exclusive
subsistence of a large portion of the Irish people; not
only, however, was it the principal article of subsistence
of the cotter and the peasant, but it has been the chief
article of subsistence of the small farmer; and not only
even was it the • principal article of subsistence of the
small farmer, but I believe it has also formed the prin-
cipal article of subsistence of a large portion of the
population residing in the suburbs of large towns.
His Lordship then prcceeded to say that potatoes formed
not only the sustenance of the people themselves, •hut
the sustenance also of the animals which they reared.
The value of the potato crop, it was estimated,
amounted annually to sixteen millions ; and when
their Lordships considered the immense amount
of sustenance which it afforded, some idea
might be formed of the awful misery consequent on its
failure. The failure of that crop had brought on a famine
that not only proved destructive to the poorer classes,
but threatened the existence of every man oft very grade
in the community. The union workhouses were tilLd
to overflowing, and so crowded had they become that
they were obliged to close the doors against
further admissions. He had also to state,
in reference to this, that many of these
houses were horderine on the brink of bankruptcy. By
the Labour-rate Act, passed at the close of last session,
presentment sessions were held in 293 baronies out of
the 326 baronies of Ireland. In some of these
the sessions were held once, in others twice,
and in a considerable number of them three times. It
was thought, when that Act, was passed, that it would
meet the extent of distress then anticipated, and
it then received the approbation of all parties.
lie was not aware that any person in authority at that
time foresaw the extent of the calamity, or denounced
the measure as into!, quate. In this state of things
it became absolutely necessary fur the Lord-Lieu-
tenant, in communication with he Government of this
country, t;; consider what was to be done fur the
urpose of continuing. to employ the people, and
to do it on a principle satisfactory to the landed
proprietors, and not ruinous to the country at
large. There were two paths to be taken,
and one was to assemble Parliament to devise other ,
measures ; and the other was, for the Lord-Lieutenant
to take on himself the direction and management 'of the
public money as he best could under the circumstances.
It was impossible for any Government to have taken a
wiser course than the one which the present Govern-
ment did in not adopting the former alterna-
tive. There would have been the long delay before
Parliament assembled, and a long discussion
when it did. The Government had sufficient experience
in guarding against the greatest evil ot all—which would
have been suspense—which would have been pending
during the proceedings of assembling Parliament, and
during the discussion little or nothing could be done by
the landed proprietors, and the landlords of course, in that
state of suspense, would only wait to ascertain the
result of their deliberations. If the Lord Lieutenant
took on himself the exercise of a just discretion, and
determined, as far as possible, to accommodate the di-
rection of the existing Act of Parliament, by adopting
such an extension of its powers as would permit it to be
applied to the occupation of the people in private
and useful works, and to do so, under such
regulations as to insure to the public the benefit of any
money expended. Bat to do this it was by no means
operative, so as to admit of the employment of the public
money exclusively in drainage or the reclamation of waste
lands, for many of the landowners had no land
which required draining, and some of them had
already accomplished these works, and very little ad-
vancement was made under Mr. Lahouchere's Act. A
very usual complaint was made, and a very natural one
it was indeed, that the Irish landlords could not guard
against the injustice of the double tax. A man who had
released his lands from any charge, was not released from
his contribution to the baronial expenses. In this state
of things it was natural that they should cry out for
the area in which the present levies were made to be
extended to the electoral districts. He congratulated the
Noble Duke for his suggestions, which he had made
sotne years ago when the Irish poor-law was
brought under consideration, and his objection to the
very serious mischief which would arise to every
area in the district being compelled to support the ex-
pense of its awn poor. He always regretted that his
valuable suggestions were not • carried out.—(hear.)
There was also another Act under which authority was
given to grant 50,000/. for employment in public works,
such as fisheries, and other works of that description.
But it was so clogged with inconvenient provisions that
it could not be turned to present material advantage.
Ireland was consequently in this condition, that there
was at present a stop put to drainage in that country,
which was to be deplored, because it afforded the
means of giving beneficial employment to the
labouring classes, particularly in the summer months.
To chow that this world occur he need only mention
that draining at certain periods could not be carried
on, for oats bad to be sown in the land as in next month, for
instance, aid drainage must then necessarily be suspended
The Labour-rate Act must then cease, because in many
districts it would be impossible to find objects upon
which to expend the public money. It would be
necessary, therefore, for their Lordships wit ti
the other House, to devise some other modes
of employing the people of Ireland. It was not his in
tention to repeat what he had heard as to what those
modes should be, nor would he wish to provoke just then
a discussion on that subject. He admitted its paramount
importance and the right of the pubic, deeply
interested as they were in the question, to be
made acquainted with all that related to it
as soon as possible ; but it would be the duty
of the Minister of the Crown, and he would, as soon as
it could conveniently be done, bring this important
question under the consideration of the other House of
Parliament. Such was the statement which he
felt it his imperative duty to make to their Lordships,
end if he had omitted anything which he should have
stated, there were so many of their Lordships so inti-
mately acquainted with all the affairs of Ireland, that
these omissions would be amply supplied. Besides, his
lion. Friend the Noble Baron who was to second
the Address, and who was so beneficially connected
with the barony of Wexford, would be able
to atone for any inaccuracy of his. Well, it
was highly desirable that for this purpose one
should compare and examine the condition of society
and property in England and Ireland. Nothing
could be snore disproportioned, nothing could
he more dispiriting. In England - they had a
large proprietary ; they had residing among them
a vast moneyed interest— a moneyed interest not con-
Rued to this metropolis, the most extraordinary place of
resort in the world—but an interest extending to every
port in the kingdom, and gene-ally spread over the
whole surface. They had, besides, on the estates of
these landlords a thriving and substantial yeomanry ;
they had a long-established and desirable or-
ganization with the law under which they bad
so long lived. There was scarcely a parish
in England in which there were not means found
admirably adapted to render assistance to the most
humble classes in any crisis of the country.
But how different was the condition of the
people in Ireland. 1 here were, no doubt, several wealthy
proprietors there, and with respect to the organization
of that ,country, undoubtedly it was the fact that
there was an aptitude for organization for po-
litical purposes; yet it was unfortunately the
case, that for any practical or useful purp; se
there was a remarkable want of this virtue. It
was true, indeed, that for some ye ars past several
Acts of Parliament had greatly improved.
the social and moral conditiox of the people
He would illustrate the relative positions of the land-
lords and tenants of Ireland, by some analogies, which
would bring the thing home to the itnagitiations of
the Noble Lords whom he was addressing.—
Supposing it possible that by some atmospherical
influence an insect were found to infect all the bags of
cotton which came into Manchester. so as to ruin the
trade which sustained the population of the county of Lan-
cashire. Had their Lordships then addressed the great
mill-owners of that country, in language like that which
had been addressed to the landlords of Ireland, they
would then have found congregated those parties who,
although they would have cheerfully borne the burden
for those who had been horn and bred in their service,
still their Lordships might expect that they would be
addressed in language similar to this :—" e are now
thrown on our resources, and are made responsible, in
order to meet this great emergency, yet we ex-
pect that some partial relief ought to be ex-
tended towards us by the Imperial Parliament
To bring this analogy more home to their Lordships-
just let them suppose that last autumn there had been a
failure in the wheat and oat crops of this country, would
it have been right, or would it even have been expected,
that the landed interest alone should be called
upon to meet the calamity ?—(Hear, hear.) He made
those remarks spontaneously ; they had not been
suggested by any party; but in performing the task he
had undertaken, he thought he had right to express his
views and feelings upon these various topics. Whatever
might be the issue of this fearful calamity, it was, in
the meantime, the duty of all parties, from
e
the highest Minister of the Crown, down to
andth
lowest member of society to use every
make eery persoted 'sacrifice if necessaryteeNt woertiarornest its
ould have
further progress.—(hear, hear.l)endWhhad there been
been the condition of Enea
no channel between this
Why it was perfectly certain thatcounatrvy and Ireland ?
vast amount of the
misery would have been extended
to England, for
the demand for labour was so great andetflleetreartees,ofthwatagtehsesroe
high in many branches of English n'tan
must inevitably have been a greater influx of unemployed
labourers into this country. Whatever might be the result of
this calamity, he was quite satisfied a just determination would
prevail amongst all parties to h ddo thhfeiarnduatlyl-lwibiseerailtyro,
vainddeutchee.
rest must be left to the an
That they should get over the present suffering, if a little exer.
lion were used, he was quit e certain,a.thindnthaentadthhe!petstssitiazunlfd ttehaecihr
them better to understand the post
social condition. Two particular measures had been sug-
gested by her Majesty's Speech, and he was sure, after
a little consideration, their Lordships would accede to her
Ma;esty's request, and cordially adopt them. The first of
those measures was to throw open the ports for a given period,
and do away with all restrictions upon the importation of food.
It might be contended by some that this would give rise to
unnatural speculation, and serve to fill the pockets of a few in-

dividual merchants. Some partial evil of that descrip-
tion might possibly result from the measure, but still it
would b^ small indeed when compared with the good
the measure must inevitably confer upon the country. With
respect to the other measure, relating to the admisdila of sugar
into this country, their Lordships must bear this in mind, that
the price of barley at this time was 10s. per quarter higher
than at the corresponding period last year. Besides, the
brewers had raised the price of beer, while had sugar been
more plentiful in breweries, this evil could never have
arisen. It would be their duty to give th,se measures their
best consideration, and to see whether the request of her
Majesty with regard to them could not be readily acceded to
There were other measures not mentioned in the Speeoh which

he thought it necessary to be adopted for the purpose
of carrying out any plans for the improvement of Ireland.
For instance, the laws relating to real property ought to be in
some measure modified, and he was glad to see that this sub-
ject had been placed in the hands of a Noble and

Learned Lord who was remarkable for

per-

sonal ability and vast experience in such matters.
Her Majesty simply stated that, with reference to the marriage
between the Infanta of Spain and the Duke de Montpensier,
she had ordered copies of the correspondence which
had taken place on that subject to be laid before
them ; and with regard to the annexation of Cracow, that not
only would the correspondence on that matter be laid
before them, but she also stated that she had commanded

a protest to be made by her Government to the
Governments of Austria, Prussia, and Russia for the violation

of the treaty, by which the independence of that republic was
secured. lie must, however, take the liberty of saying, in his

private capacity, that such a violation of a soltnn treaty
deserved the denunciation of all who were interested in the
stability and strength of the kingdoms of Eui opt!, and he could
not help saying that Austria was the last country which
ought to have deviated from the principles of that treaty.
If from the distance of that republic it was .impossible to
inte4ere, it was necessary that the strongest protest should be
entnted against the proceeding, and as far as England was
ceAcerned, he believed their Lordships would concur in the
general abhorrence with which it had been regarded.
The next paragraph of the Speech referred to the sanguinary
and cruel war which devastated the southern part of South
America. With regard to it he had to state that, long as he
had been connected with a commercial and manufacturing
district, he had 'never heard any complaint preferred against
the late, or the present Foreign Secretary with
regard to the manner in which they had managed affairs in
that quarter. With regard to their amicable relations with
other countries, he was sure their Lordships would join in the
hope expressed as to their continuance. With reference to the
sanatory regulations referred to, he was sure that they would
meet with very general approbation, and he sincerely hoped
that measures for that purpose would not be long delayed.
With these plain observations, he shou d conclude with moving
that an humble Address be presented to her Majesty, which,
as,usual, was an echo of the Speech.
Lord CARI-t:W (who was very indistinctly heard) said that,
in rising to second the motion of his Noble Frient, he could
say, and say with truth, that he had always been reluctant to
address their Lordships, and they might, therefore, judge how
contrary it was to his feelings to be compelled to bear his
testimony to the misery and destitution existing in Ireland.
That reluctance was increased by the knowledge that the
present state of want and misery was peculiarly felt
by that part of the country to which he was peculiarly bound
by every tie of birth ; but he was urged on by the conviction
that if he did not address them it would appear as if he were
shrinking from his duty. Exaggeration of the misery would
be impossible, and amplification would be useless. Last year
an infliction fell upon the food of Ireland, and this year it had
fallen more heavily, particularly upon that food to which the
people looked for sustenance. They well knew that the
poorest portion of the Irish people depended upon the potato
for existence. There was an universal complaint of extreme
distress and famine. It might be said that it was an unsound
state for the people to be depending on any single article for
food. That was, however, the case, and that food had been
stricken by the inscrutable visitation of Providence, and the
people were starving in other countries; and in better regu-
lated countries employment was the surest test of prosperity ;
but in Ireland employment was not sufficient for the
people.—( Hear, hear.) The potato was there produced
with the greatest facility, and that facility had produced a
population more than sufficient for the labour to be performed.
In that particular portion of Ireland called the Skibbereen
county the visitation had been most severe, and it was that
portion of the country in which the potato was formerly most
prolific and best as regarded the quality. In many
parts the people were starving. Such was the dis-
tress in many cases that the small farmers were
consuming that portion of their stock which in
former years they had kept for seed. They were now coming
upon the public works, arid each day added to their numbers.
It was necessary to carry forward the Labour Act. The re-
sults that had followed these experiments, had, un-
fortunately, not been as desirable as could have been wished.
And here he must do justice—justice which was not
always done—to the landlords, and justice to the farmers, who
did not shrink from making themselves liable for the repayment
of the sums which had been contributed for the benefit and
provision of the poor. - But the evil effects of the
good intentions of those who desired to avert and ameliorate
the distress existing in this peculiar manner were unfortu-
nately many. The whole country came under one gigantic
scheme, and as it must have been in some degree
experimental, it was impossible to blame them for
not having succeeded in the first instance, or being able to
carry them out.—( Hear.) In some cases the works could not
be overseen, and the consequence was that there was a waste
of the funds. In some instances there was in
fact an actual refusal by the necessary parties to act, and in
others a considerable unwillingness, which almost amounted
to the same. The difficulties were so great that they
had to struggle against hope.—(Hear, hear.) Starvation
was hard to bear, but it was his firm hope—it was his
conviction—his belief—that when it pleased Providence to
ralieve the people of Ireland from the present famine
infliction, it would lead to the regeneration of that
country. Allusion had been made in her Majesty's
Speech to the cessation of political excitement. It
was well known that there was no country in the world in
which greater political excitement prevailed than in Ireland,
and the natural ground of quarrel between Protestant and
Catholic was that of their faith. It had been his duty in
, conjunction with the deputy-lieutenant of his own county
( Wexford) to organize the diffe ant committees appointed in
the s,veral districts. and he had endeavoured in every i, stance
to employ those whom lie considered the most discreet and
trust worthy in the different neighbourhoods.— ( Hear. )
It was astonishing that so much patience was manifested
by the people of Ireland under this infliction ; but. now he
could assure their Lordships that there was no heart left in Ire-
to supoort these distresses. Even the little boys wh n
going to school appea• ed heart struck, and destitution and
depression were but too visible in their hits s.
He would take leave to disabu,e their Lordships of a prejudice,
but t.. 0 prevalent, arising from the purchase of arms. It had
been asserted that the money which had been given for the
purpose of charity had been expended in the purchase of
arms. He could assure their Lordships that the pur-
chasers of arms were to be found principally among the
farmers, and only for the purposes of self-protection. He would
illustrate this fact by a circumstance which canny within his
own knowledge not many weeks ago. He had seen adver-
tised that 600 stand of arms were to be sold in his
own county, and he was exceedingly sorry to observe it. With
the view, therefore of ascertaining who were the purchasers,
he wrote to the editor of the paper, and he
would take leave to read to their Lordships the
substance of his answer. He told him (Lord Carew) not
to be alarmed about the sale of fire-arms, because
it was not unusual for newspapers to insert advertisements
which might not be in unison with the feelings of the proprie-
tors. The fact was, that it was a speeulation of the Birming-
ham gun-makers, and it was sufficiently notorious that Jonn
Bull made the most of his markets. The sale, however, did tot
meet their expectations, because only 30 stand were sold out of
the 6' 0. The Irish people considered this a dispensation of
Providence, which they were obliged to submit to. '
Lord STANLEY said it had of late years been the
practice of Government, except upon extraordinary oc-
casions, to abstain from introducing into the Speech
delivered from the Throne, and from the Address
to be moved in answer to it, in both Houses
of Parliament, any topics which were calculated to give rise to
the expression of hostile opinions, or to lead to lengthened
debates. On the other band, it had been the prac-
tice of those who were placed in opposition to abstain
from introducing into the discussion anything that
was calculated to give rise to controversy, or to interfere with
the respectful acknowledgment or ready acquiescence to take
into consideration those measures and topics touched upon
in the Speech from the Throne. Of course, how-
ever, there had been occasions of momentous import when
the public exigencies required the Government to break
through this rule, and introduce into the Speech matters
which had given rise to extended controversy; while, on the
other hand, there had also been occasions when the Opposi-
tion to the Government had felt it to be their duty
at the outset of the session to introduce into the
Address, in answer to the Speech from the Throne, amend-
ments which they might also think required immediate con-
sideration. No such extraordinary circumstances now ex-
isted, and it was, therefore, not necessary to inter-
pose any amendment or obstacle in the way of the
adoption of the Address.—(Hear, hear.) Ile could not
but recollect the peculiar circumstances under which the Go-
vernment at present occupied their seats. He must do them
the justice to say that they had attained their present position
by no opposition of a factious nature. Indeed, he
might go so far as to say they had attained
it by no act of their own—indeed, they had been placed in
office by circumstances over wnich they hail no control. He
believed many of them with sincere reluctance exercised the
great responsibilities of office, and whatever might be their poli-
tical feelings, he was sure that both in that House and in the
other House of Parliament there prevailed a general impres-
sion that, under existing circumstances, Government had a
peculiar claim to the forbearance of Parliament. But he
would go further. Whatever might be the peculiar
claims which the circumstances that called them into
office in August last entitled them to, they
ought, nevertheless, to be relievers as much as possible from
embarrassing amendments coming from the opposition. Great
and heavy responsibilities were pressing upon them, and ever)
man should, therefore, abstain from throwing any unnecessarytherefore, promise her Majesty's
they abstained from unneces
obstacles
Government,
that way.
so /:1
longe could,
as
sarily interfering with the institutions of the country, so long
as they should resist the exciting inducements that might he
held out to them by -their more violent supporters, so long
Government might be satisfied, they would receive the
cordial support and co-operation of Noble Lord,
sitting on his own side of the House. He could
not refrain from noticing what he considered to be a
very significant omission in the Speech from he Throne
There had been no allusion, no reference whatever, to the finan-
cial condition of the country. This omission might not have
excited much attention had not the recent returns exhibited
an increase in the revenue, and he thought it
very significant that ne notice whatever had been taken of that.
increase. There had been for various reasons a large increase
in the consumption of exciseable articles, which, together
with the large importation of foreign produce, accounted
for the increase in the revenue, but that could
not he taken as an indication of the increased
prosperity of the country, as there had been no
cation
correspondingalso, that increase
thts was in
nott}ft latter-an
increase Th
which s
coots ot hd er
b ei nddei
.-
pended upon. There had been lately a great reduction of the
premium on Exchequer-bills. Some time ago the premium
on them was 40 per cent., but latterly it had come down to 5
or 6, and he expected, or apprehended, that it would be the
painful duty of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to raise the
interest on them. He saw already that a considerable export
of bullion had taken place, and he was afraid that
before six months had elapsed the excess of imports
over exports would indicate a still larger amount
There was no apprehension to be entertained of the inter-
ruption of the general peace of the world, but he confessed
that he did not altogether find that confidence which he, for
one, fully entertained before certain events alluded to in the
Speech, and which had given to place the growing conviction in
this country of the impolicy of the course which had been pur-
sued. He -believed that a cause which some years ago would
inevitably have produced a war would be repudiated by the
good sense of the present era as insufficient to
lead to such a consequence. He was sure that
in a commercial nation like this powerful and
capable of great exertion in war, peace was not only desirable,
but necessary. He telieved that' the conviction was deeply
rooted in the minds of the people of this country, and 4%1100