The Sun.
London, England, 1841-08-25 00:00:00

'ME SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 25, 1841,

(Ivo-clirro-i- free-trade, based on reciprocity and a due regard
o-eXisting interests' according to the doctrine of Mr. Huskis
on.—( Hear, hear.) A great deal had been Said of the benefits
which landlords and capitalists would derive from a repeal of
the Corn-laws, but he wanted to know how the labouring classes
would be benefitted ; and unless it could be shown what was to
become of that section of the labouring classes who would be
-*rived of their ordinary and habitual employment by such
an •alteration, he for one would never consent to it. It was
quite true that the landlord might derive some advan-
tage from the increased value of his property from the factory
mills that could he erected 'upon it ; it was equally true the
capitalist might withdraw his capital from a milling concern
and employ it elsewhere ; but the only capital of the labourer
was his skill in his own branch of industry, and it was a
mockery and a fallacy to tell him when you had deprived him
of the resource, that he could find satisfactory compensa-
tion ; and this led' him to say that he sympathised, from the
bottom of his heart, with another expression in this amend-
ment, in which he coincided with-the Address, namely, that
in the gracious expression of her Majesty's sympathy with the
sufferings of'those who are in want of employment, they re •
cognised an additional proof of her Majesty's tender regard
for her subjects. He believed that a just regard for the
interests of the labouring classes was the paramount, the most
weighty reason which could be adduced for proceeding warily
in the application of the doctrines promulgated ; and as he
was upon this subject, he could not help alluding to the
very harsh, to the very severe, to the very unjust terms in
which it had been the fashion to designate those who on
these questions had taken opposite views from those of her
Majesty's Government. In a (lay in which monopolies were
denounced he must be permitted to say that of all mono-
polies the most intolerable and the most odious was the pre-
tention to a monopoly of public virtue.—(Leud cries of
Hear, hear," from the Opposition b riche's.) Never to
'his mind was that pretension urged with a worse grace than
when it was advanced by those who but an hour ago, bur
a little moment ago, might with propriety have been classed
amongst those whose pretensions to monopoly and whose
selfish, and unreasonable, and ungenerous consideration; were
now the objects o their reproach. He had, he feared, already
trespassed at too great length ; and as this was his first
appearance, he could only return his grateful thanks to the
House fur the kind manner in which they bad
listened to him ; but there was one subject to which he begged
permission to refer for two or three minutes.—(Hear, hear. )
He had observed, in the general tenor of the observations which
hall been made by the Ministerial portion of the press, and by
the supporters of the Government general. y throughout the
country, especially since the result of the elections had been
known—he had observed an attempt at a studied and elaborate
recapitulation of all the possible difficulties and dangers which
the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth would
have to encounter, should he, in the present posture of affairs,
be called to administer the destinies of this nation. When he
had read over these statements, containing as they did refe-
rences to the disordered state of our finances, to dangers
which beset us both at home and abroad, it had always struck
him that the authors of these paragraphs and their abettors
might, indeed, have contemplated most of these circum-
stances with feelings of the deepest and most poignant
self-reproach, and that there were none at least
that they could have regarded with any other feelings but
those of a sincere and petrio is regret, had it not been for an
under current of exultation which he thought he had perceived
to run through those statements. —(Hear, hear.) But what-
ever might be the feelings of the authors of these statements,
whatever hypothesis which they assumed, he trusted that the
Right Hon. Baronet, conscious of the high destiny to which he
was called in being summoned to extricate his country from
these difficulties—of the high hopes entertained of him in the
country, and of the generous confidence which was reposed in
him by all classes, as manifested by the zeal and alacrity with
which they had come forward at the late general election, and
by the large majority returned to that House—that the Right
Hon. Baronet considering these circumstances wood be able to
face those difficulties, whatever they were; not in a spirit of
presumptuous defiance, nor with the intention of having re-
course to the arts of empiricism, but with a firm, with a manly re-
liance upon the good sense, the honesty, the fairness of the people
or this country, and with a still more constant reliance upon the
kindly spirit of that Providence whose watchful arm had
ever supported Britain in difficulties, and so long as she
had been true to herself, had ever guided her in the paths
of honour.—(Cheers.) And, still to argue upon that hypo-
thesis, which was not his but that of others, when the
period should arrive, which he trusted was very far distant,
when in the course of nature, or of circumstances, the
Honourable Baronet would resign that high trust to those
who should succeed him, he trusted that he would leave
them a very different legacy—that he would bequeath to
them a healthy exchequer, peace at home, prosperity in trade,
prosperity abroad, and a happy and contented nation.--(Loud
Cheers.)

Mr. LABOUCHERE said the Noble Lord who had just
addressed the House, as well as the Honourable Member
for the West Riding of Yorkshire, had taken great pains
to assure the Government that they were in a minority.
He did not stand there to contrast their 'position ;
but if that were true, he was too well aware
of the disposition of the House to doubt that they would
give to any Member of that Government, however humble,
a patient, an indulgent hearing.--( Hear.) Those Gentlemen
had expressed a great eagerness that the House should decide
upon the questions before them. He could assure the House
that that eagerness was at least equally shared by her Majesty's
Government, and that they were rejoiced that the time had
come when they were able fairly to put before the House the
policy upon which they believed the affairs of this country
should be conducted, to take the opinion of the House upon
that policy, and, if they should fail to receive from the House
of Commons that support which could alone enable them to
carry out that policy to a successful conclusion, without loss of
time to devolve the responsibity of governing the country on
other principles, upon those who were of a different opinion on
such subjects from themselves. He had listened with great
attention, and with no small curiosity, to the speeches that had
been made from the other side of the House, and he confessed
that he was entirely at a loss to understand the intention of the
amendment. He clearly understood that it was intended to
express a want of confidence in her Majesty's Ministers ; and he
could assure the Hon. Member for the West Riding that it
was totally unnecessary for him to take up the time of the
House, as he had done in asserting the right to express such a
sentiment. It was not only right, but it was the duty of the
Rouse, if upon general grounds they did not feel confidence in
the advisers of her Majesty ; it was due to the Crown—it was
due to the country—he might say it was due to the Govern-
ment itself at once to declare that opinion, that no doubt
might remain upon the subject.—(Hear.) Still he must say,
that after hearing the amendment, and the speeches by which
he had been supported, he was at a loss to understand what
was its import. Before, however, he alluded to that part of
the subject, he would take the liberty of referring to some of
the observations which had fallen from the mover and seconder
of the address. The Noble Lord who had just sat down
(Lord Bruce) had said that the Government had no right to
come down to the House of Commons as a Government ; it
was notorious, he said, that the result of the late elections was
unfavourable, and under such circumstances it was an insult
both to the country and to the Crown for them to retain
office.— (Hear.) He thought the Noble Lord could hardly
have observed near whom he was sitting.—(Hear, hear.)
He must remind him that when the Right Hon. Gentleman
the Member for Tamworth, in 1835, acted as the Minister of
the Crown, the result of the elections had placed him in an ac-
knowledged minority. He was perfectly aware, when he met
that ho met a hostile majority arrayed against him ; at any
rate, if he could have any doubt about it, the point was very
soon settled.—( Hear, hear.) They began with the Speaker-
ship, of which he would say no more.—( Hear, hear, from the
Tory benches.) They then proceeded to move an amendment
to the Address, blaming the dissolution of the previous Parlia-
ment, and clearly int,mating that the majority of the House
did not repose confidence in the Government. Still the Right
Hon. Gentleman retained office, exercising the patronage, and
using all the executive functions of the Minister, though he
was never able, during the whole time that he sat as Minister,
to, carry one single measure which was proposed to the
House. There was, too, this peculiarity in the defects of the
Right Honourable Baronet—they were unchequered by a single
triumph, though on one occasion he was defended
from an attack which proceeded from the Duke of Buckingham
by the co-operation of his opponents—co-operation which, he
trusted, would always be afforded when an improper attack
was made upon the existing Government.—(Hear, hear.) His
Hon. Friend (the Member far the West Riding) had charged
the Government with having abandoned those pledges which
Lord Grey had given of peace, economy, and reform. He
felt convinced that the calm judgment of the country and of
posterity would give them credit for having maintained those
three principles of Government, as far as it was favourable
under the circumstances. The Hon. Member said there had
been some cannon shots fired since the Government had been
in office. The pledge of Lord :irey was to this effect—that the
Government would, as far as possible, preserve a pacific policy,
that, as far as possible, they would prevent an European war,
or any breaking up of that great confederacy, which was the
best pledge of peace. When Lord Grey took office, ten years
ago, it. was said that it would be an astonishing thing if peace
were maintained for six months.—( Hear, hear ) Yet, with some
slight interruptions, peace had been maintained for ten years ;
and if the event of these discussions should be to bring Hon.
Gentlemen opposite into power, it would indeed be matter of
congratulation most fortunate to the interests of the human
race, if at, the end of ten years the world had not suffered more
calamities from war than during the ten years that were past.
He next came to economy. The lion. Gentleman said there
had never been such profuse expenditure, yet the Government
came in with pledges of economy. If that were so, if the
Government had been lavish in their expenditure, it implied a
very great censure upon their political opponents. ( Hear,
-hear.) It was the peculiar province and duty of an opposition
to watch the expenditure of the country, and to check any dis-
position to excess. (Laughter from the Oppeedtion.) The
complaints from the other side of the House had uniformly
been thtt they did not spend enouAlt; that they were not suffi-
ciently lavish. ( Hear, hear.)
Mr. STUART WORTLEY explained. He said he had
complained of the result.
Mr. LA LIOUCHERE said he had always supposed that
"economy" was a relative term. No one could imagine that
Earl Grey had pledged himself not to spend more than a cer-
tain sum of money; or not to increase when it was neeessary
the establishments of the country. It might in some cases be
the truest economy to increase the expenditure.—(hear,
hear ) His Hon. Friend had made a charge against the pre-
sent Government that they had never introduced reforms unless
when it set ved their own party purposes; and that it was for
that reason they had reformed the old borough system. Now he
(Mr. Labouchere) did not think that a charge which they should
shrink from ; and he hoped they should always have a party
interest in reforming acknowledged abuses. *But he would
also remind his Hon. Friend that there was a large class of
subjects in which reforms had been introduced, while the
Whig,party had occupied power, to which the observation could
not apply. With respect to the reform in Church-rates, the
reform in tithes, and many other important reforms introduced
during the last ten years, it was impossible to say
that they could be attributed to party motives. He
felt it a matter of just pride to those with whom he I
had the honour to act, that they could look back
with satisfaction upon the results of many of those important
changes which it was predicted would lead to the most cala-
mitous consequences. It was said that the Reform Bill would
lead to ruin and confusion in the country; but so far was the
prediction from being verified, that in his (Mr. Labonchere's)
opinion the institutions of the country had been thereby placed
upon a sounder basis, and had become mere an object of love
and reverence to the people of this country than they had been
before that event. He held it that the leiitimate object of
Reform was preservation , and he could not look back to that
long series of measures intrnduced during the last ten years
but with a feeling of satisfactian at the success which had at-
tended their efforts to amend and consolidate the institutions of
the country.—( Hear, hear.) Hon. Gentlemen opposite said
they were not in a condition to discuss those measures of trade,
and it had he en intimated that the Government had not brought
forward those measures upon reflection and a conviction of
their propriety, but merely to serve some temporary purpose,
and that therefore they had not received the full consideration
of the country. He (Mr. Labouehere) could only say, on the
contrary, that if ever there were measures deliberately con-
sidered 'before they had been brought forward, they Were the
measures which it had been attempted so unfairly to eharacs
tense.. He could assure the House that the Govern
enent, in bringing forward those measures, were aware that
they were likely to meet with very great. opposition.
It was. impossible to look to the history of our commercial
legislation of late years without anticipating that result, for it
was a remarkable fact, that while they had improved the insti-
tutions of the country in other respects, nothing had been done
for our commercial legislation during a long series of years, al-

I.thongh no important alterations had since taken place in the
1 condition of the country'and the commercial relationssof the
world. The Government were• aseare they were undertaking
a task of great difficulty. The Hon. Gentleman opposite had'
said that he was a disciple of Mr. Huskisson—with the
support. be it always remembered, of the Whig party,
who did not think it fit to make such subjects party
question,. With the support of the Whigs Mr. Huskis-
son had, undoubtedly, introduced many important al.
terations in our commercial system, in spite of his over.relne-
tent followers. Mr. Grant (now Lord Glenelg) and Mr.
Huskisson, had, it should be recollected, brought forward the
very question of the sugar duties ; and the proposal they hod
made went much further than the late proposal of her Ma-
jesty's Government, giving less protection to the colonies and
being more favourable to the home consumer.—( Hear.)
He had no doubt but his Honouralrle Friend ( Mr.. Wortley)
voted upon that occasion with Mr. Huskisson; but he was op-
posed to the Duke of Wellington, to the Right Hon. Baronet
the • Member for Tamw.orth, to the Right Hon. Member
for Cambridge, then Chancellor of the Exchequer, and the
the proposal failed. Now he (Mr. Labouchere) had no hesi-
tation in saying that if that measure had been carried at the
time, the results to the commerce and the finances of this
country, as well as the general comfort of the people, would
have been almost inealeulable.—( Hear.) What was the next
considerable attempt made to change our commercial system?
The next attempt was made by a Government that could not
he designated a weak Government—it was made by the Go-
vernment of Earl Grey, the year after they had come into
office.—( Hear, hear.) That Government brought forward a
measure relating to the timber duties ; and the Noble
Lord the Member for North Lancashire, and the Right
Hon. Baronet the Member for Dorcheeter ( Sir J. Graham),
said it was an ill-advised measure. But the proposal reset with
a party Opposition, and it did not succeed. 11 shouldh __e observe
that if public men made such subjects party questions, and
made tee of them as a means of ember; assing and harassing a•
Government, he was afraid that they would never see a Go-
vernment strong enough to carry out any important improve-
ments.—( Hear, hear.) He was not surprised that, after the
failures he had enumerated, succeeding Governments felt slow
and reluctant to propose any considerable alterations with re-
spect to those important matters, and fully admitted what he
had heard that night, that there was a great evil in bringing
forward such measures unless there was some chance of carry-
ing them. He had never denied that. It was the duty of a
Government fairly to weigh the one against the other—the
danger and the evil Isf leaving things as they were when they
became injurious to the best interests of the country, and the
lerzard of dealing with such questions. He should not forget
to mention that Mr. Huskisson, in his attempt to alter the
sugar duties, was opposed by the entire of the party opposite,
with the single and most honourable exception of the late Mr.
Peregrine Courtenay, and after thattexperienee he did think
that Governments might be well reluctant in bringing
forward measures of a similar description. It was also
to be observed that, when the Corn-law ques-
tion had been brought for Ward year after year
by independent Members of that House, the proposal had been
always negatived by very considerable majorities. But they
had been constantly told, and by the Right Hon. Baronet the
Member for Tamworth among, many others, that if the Go-
vernment took into consideration the whole state of the com-
mercial legislasion of the country so as to do justice to all
classes, Hon. Gentlemen opposit would not be indisposed to
consider the Corr.-laws. The Government, therefore, put the
sincerity of that declaration to the proof ; but they had been
disappointed. But when they had made up their minds that
it was their duty to submit the commercial system of the coun-
try to the revision of Parliament, they believed that that was a
favourable opportunity to ask the powerful landed interest
fairly to be considered while other interests were under die-
cussion. They had been told that evening that the measures
of the Government had been improperly brought forward last
session. The Hon. Gentlemen opposite had said that if they
had been brought forward deliberately, and if Mr. Huskisson
had brought forward his measure, he might give them a fair
consideration. Now ho (Mr. Labouchere) wished the House
to remember in what manner the measure in qpestion had
been br ought forward. They had first proposed certain mea-
sures affecting British possessions abroad, and he thought
that it was a necessary preparation before dealing with articles
of colonial produce, that they should redress any grievances
which the Colonies justly complained of. He hoped they
would yet take into their consideration the case of the West
Indies ; and after they had placed the East and West Indies
upon the same footing as regarded their produce in the markets
of that country, he thought that nothing could be more unfair
or unjust than to leave the West India subject to the ex-
cessive and intolerable burdens under which they now la-
boured. He thought that the subject deserved the serious
consideration of Parliament. He found that during the first
six months of the year 1840, 99,600 cwt. of sugar had been
imported into this country from the West Indies, while the
quantity imported during the corresponding six months of the
present year amounted only to 70,700 cwt., making a decrease
of nearly 20,000 cwt. The lion. Gentleman opposite said he
was a free-trader ; but he was no advocate for the ministerial
measures—that was to say, he was a free-trader with the ex-
ception of corn, sugar, and timber.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.)
But the proposal of the Government with regard to the Sugar
Duties, did not go so far as the proposal of Mr. Grant and Mr.
Huskisson, and no one could say that it was an extravagant
measure. He had last year supported an alteration in the
Sugar Duties ; and so far from having since
altered his opinion upon that subject, he con-
fessed that everything that had since occurred
had only tended to confirm it. What did he find was the pre-
sent condition of the sugar trade ? They had been told last
year that there would soon be abundance of sugar for the con-
sumer, and that the revenue would be proportionably benefited.
The predictions had not, however, been verified. He found
that the quantity of sugar consumed in the first six months of
the year 1840 amounted to 2,050,000 cwt., while the amount
consumed during the six corresponding months of the present
year amounted to no more than 1,861,000 cwt., making a de-
crease of 130,000 cwt. ; while there had been a falling off in
the revenue during the period, allowing the 5 per cent, addi-
tion, of 278,0001. His Hon. Friend had accused him of hav-
ing opposed an alteration in the sugar duties in 1840, while he
supperted it in 1841; but he should observe in Iris own de-
fence, that upon all commercial and financial grounds he had
always wished for the alteration, and he always treated the
question as one of time. lie should next come to the ques-
tion of corn ; and he should say he had listened with the most
intense anxiety--and the country at large would participate in
the feeling—he had listened with intense anxiety, for the pur-
pose of learning what were the views of lion. Gentlemen op-
posite upon the subject of the Corn daws.—( Hear, hear.) He
considered that the manner in which the question had been
mentioned was very enigmatical. However, he gathered a
hope from what had fallen from Hon. Gentlemen that evening,
because he could not conceive any party could in a solemn
manner address her Majesty in the manner that was proposed,
unless they intended to consider the Corn-laws, with a view
to their alteration. He could conceive no course more danger-
ous, or more improper, than
" Spargere votes pee vulgum ambiguas."
—( Hear, and laughter.) lie could conceive no course more
improper than stating to her Majesty that they were deeply
sensible of the important considerations to which her Majesty
had directed their attention, and to conclude by stating that
Ministers had not the confidence of the country, unless Hon.
Gentlemen opposite were themselves determined on taking the
subject into their consideration. He should remind the
House thit the . question was not whether they should
have foreign corn, but what were the laws by which that
importation was to be regulated. He found that the
average quantity of wheat introduced during the ten first
years of the present century from 1801 to 1810 amounted to
555,000 quarters from the colonies and from foreign countries,
and 70,000 quarters from Ireland. He found that in the next
10 years, from 1811 to 1820, the average amount of foreign
and Irish corn annually imported to this country amounted
to 606,000 quarters ; from 1820 to 1830 it amounted to
995,000 quarters; and from 1830 to 1840, taking the whole
period, ke foud the average importation of each year
was no less than 1,500,000 quarters of foreign corn. )
The question therefore was not whether we should have a
foreign trade in corn, but upon what principle that trade
should be conducted.—(Hear, hear.) We were not indepen-
dent of foreign corn, and we could not be—and he would go
further and say " God forbid we should be."—(Cheers. )
There was another consideration connected with the subject,
to which he would advert, as he had not beard it before in
that House. It related to the quantity of corn imported
from Ireland and the Colonies. It was a remarkable fact
that the quantity of corn imported from Ireland had been
increasing up to the year, 1833, but from that year there had
been a great and progressive diminution.—(Hear, hear.)
In 1833 the quantity of corn imported from Ireland was 834,000
quarters. In 18.34 and 1835 there was a considerable decrease ;
in 1835 the import was 664,000 qrs. In 1837, 534,000 qrs. ;
in 1830, only 258,000 quarters ; and in 1840 the quantity im-
ported from that part of the United Kingdom was no more
than 174,000 qrs.—( Hear.) l'hat decrease was not owing to
any falling off in the prosperity of Ireland, but it would be
traced directly to the fact that the people consume more corn
themselves, and have the less to export. He believed
there was this cause also, that in consequence of the increase
of steam-boats, a very large quantity of butter, poultry, live
stock, and other articles of agricultural production were im-
parted, and the Irish farmers were induced by the profit of
that trade to turn their attention in some degree from the rais-
ing of wheat.—( Hear.) If the gentlemen who had hitherto
opposed any alteration whatever in the existing Corn-
laws were not convinced by the experience of the lest two
years, he should despair, that any thing short of actual famine
would convince thern.—( Hear, hear.) He should wish to
bring the attention of gentlemen connected with the landed
interest to the manner in which the system of taking the ave-
rages had worked in the laet two years. He had found it to be
a system of. fraud and gambling, alike injurious to the trade
and to the class for whose supposed benefit it was established.
-In consequence of the information which he received from
gentlemen connected with the corn trade, who complained from
time to time of the frauds which were practised, he made in-
quiries, and ascertained that certain London merchants had
combined to effect fictitious sales, fur the purpose of altering
the averages, so as to let in at the lowest duties the foreign corn
which was in bond. 'These sales commenced in the early part
of July, and were continued till the 28th of August, and liven
comparing the quantities sold in each week of that period in
London, with what had been sold in that city in eorresponding
periods in ordinary times, lie frond that it was exactly four times
as match. On the 28th of Augtiet, when the fictitious sales
terminated, the average by e hich the duty was regulated,
so high as 7th. 61. the quarter, whereas the average of the
whole kingdom, (excluding London,) was 725. 6:l.—(Hear,
hear.) The six weeks average. of the whole kindom (exclud-
ing London,) was only 70s, 10d. ; but by these operations the
average was fictitiously raised,, se as to cause a reduction of
the duty from 6s. Bd. to 2s. in the week ending the 4th of
September.—( Hear, hear,) In that week 1,217,000 quarters
of foreign wheat were let out of bond at tort merely nominal
duty:—(hear, hear, hear. ) What protection would gentle-
tleman suppose the agricultural interest derived from such a
system of fraud and gambling?—(Hear, bear.) The course of
the corn trade was this, that when there was a prospect of
scarcity, a great quantity of corn was accumulated in the
bonding warehouses, but none came out until, for several
weeks, the country had suffered great privation.—( Hear, hear. )
The present price; of coo was a great calamity to the
-opposite
—( flear,)—and he was sure that every gentleman opposite
regretted that bread should be so dear as it had been for weeks
past. —( Hear.) But in the mean time there were 800,000 quar-
ters of corn in hand, none.of which cants, out, as no one would
pay the extravagant duty, knowing that the corn will
soon be admitted at the nominal duty of Is. per quarter.
( Hear.) All that corn might have been gradually brought
out to meet the wants of the people, without injury to the far-
mers. But now, what would be the case.? Just at the mfr.•
meet when our own farmers (if it pleased God to give us an
supply the
w market,
abundant
and harvest)ahalf
al f a
f wouldforeign gbne
cornrea d ysitooulbe thrown
into
million
com-
petition with them.—(Hear, hear.) That would be when
the needy farmers were obliged to sell their corn for what-
ever price they could get.—( Hear, hear.) Under these cir-
cumstances, was he to be told that those laws were for the just
protection of the farmers, and that a modification of them was
s proposed only to serve party purposes? He would urge the
House to take the'whole question into consideration, and delibe-
vete on a remedy. At the same time, Ministers had
never hesitated to expreSs their own opinions. lle for one
had always asked why there should be a different law for corn,
from any other importation ? He did not see why there should
be a sliding scale for that alone. He believed that a fixed duty
was the best form of protection. The merchant would then
know what he had to depend on, and not be uncertain whe-
ther, when his corn came here, he should have to pay a duty
of 20s. or of Is.—(Hear, hear.) The present laws were so
absurd, that almost any alteration would be an .amelioration ;
but the nearer the approximation to a fixed duty the better.

The more was left, the greater the injuries to commerce, to the
country, and the class which it APVO3 wished to benefit.--(Hear,
hear.) The measures which the Government had proposed
were not intended alone to improve the finance, but to relieve
commerce. When he looked at the state of commerce and
finance, he could , not see how they could venture to
impose a new tat to meet the exigencies of the . State.
Gentlemen opposite expressed surprise at the propositions of
Government, hat the surprise was confined to them.—( Hear,
hear.) Ministers had been told by gentlemen who usually
supported them, ‘• In the present stases of the finances, we
cannot conceive what you Will.do ; we shall not press you with
questions of free trade, but wait until we see your Budget,
and if you do not make some satisfactory alteration, we will
bring forward our own measures." He felt that the time was
come when it behoved the House to take a calm and deliberate
view of the import duties, with a view to relieve commerce,
and, at the same time, assist the revenue. He would not go
at large into all the parts of that question, but he would touch
upon some parts, premising that. if Parliament last Session had
not terminated so abruptly, he would have produced aiNew Cus-
toms Duties Bill, and would not have recommended, in the
present state of finance, any doubtful experiment; but would
have proposed such alterations as experience had proved to be
adequate for the increase of the revenue, and the relief of
trade, to a great extent. One of the commodities which
he had in view was that of provisions, such a 3
live stock, upon which the duties amounted to a
prohibition. He thought, that was a disgrace to the land,
and he hoped it would be revised.—( Hear, hear. ) Another
important branch of duty which required revision for the sake
of our manufactures was that upon raw material. For in-
stance, the duty on foreign eopper, which was prohibited ex-
cept for the purpose of smelting. The effect of this was that
our Skill and the abundance of fuel which we possessed
were made available only to the foreign manufacturer, for our
own manufacturers were not allowed to use the smelted metal,
e hich was all re-exported. Were those things of no conse-
quence, struggling as they were with foreign rivals? Foreign
ships now went abroad, where they were coppered more
cheaply than they were here. Of course no revenue of
any amount was derived from copper, but he adduced it
as a proof that it was with safety to the revenue they
would, by making alterations and relaxations in the import du-
ties, very materially diminish the pressure which, unfortunately,
exists in the mercantile and manufacturing communities of this
country. Of the existence of that pressure there could be no
&mitt. Unfortunately, that pressure was notorious. His be-
lief was that the present state of things in th's country was
connected in a very considerable degree with that want of em-
ployment which was sow prevailing in the manufacturing dis-
tricts, and which was caused by the want of demand in the fo-
reign markets, which we were losing in consequence of our not
taking those articles alone which they could give for our manufac-
tures. He would particularly call the attention of lion. Members
to two important. branches of our manufactures—hardware and
cutlery. The Right Hon. Gentleman here read sonic returns
relative to the exports in those branches of manufacture in the
years 1840 and 1841, which showed a great falling• off in the
latter year ; and then proceeded to say that such a state of
things was well deserving the attention of the House. Those
were not questions which they could postpone, for markets
once lost were net to be regained—industry once paralyzed was
not to be revived.--(Hear, hear, hear.) It would, in-
deed, be fatal policy in this country, if they suffered, any
consideration to divert their attention from the manner in
which that state of . things should be met and remedied. He
did not think that they had a right to protect
the landed interest as against the interest of the
manufacturer. If trade flourished agriculture must flourish
likewise. Let them take care of trade and commerce,
and agriculture will take care of itself ; but if they
neglected trade, the ruin of all would assuredly ensue. There
was one topic mentioned in her Majesty's Speech to which
he would advert. Her Majesty invited the House to consi-
der whether there was not a variety of the duties of trifling
amount, which might be revised without any eetriment to
to the revenue. There was no difficulty in saying that an ample
field of inquiry was presented to the House upon that subject.
There were now upon one tarif 349 articles which produced a
revenue of 8,0501. There were 147 articles which produced
no duty at all, but on which there was a drawback. Far his
own part he could only say that he rejoiced that the time was
come when the House must decide by whom and what
person the Government of this country was to be conducted.
He thought that ample time ought to be afforded to the
House to discuss these questions.—(Hear, hear.) Large
classes in the country would feel considerable disappointment
if the only result of their deliberations should be that they had
advised her Majesty to substitute one set of persons for another
in Government of the country—they world feel considerable dis-
appointment if no opinion were expressed in that House on
those subjects to which her Majesty had called their attention.
Those subjects were referred to in doubtful and ambiguous
language in the amendment proposed on the other side. That
language, perhaps, might be made more clear before the
close of the debate; not, indeed—for he did not expect
such by the announcement of any particular
measure ; hut that the House had a right to demand an ex-
plieit announcement of what was the line of policy which Gen-
tlemen opposite were prepared to follow up in the manage-
ment of these questions there could be no doubt.—(oh, oh,
and cheers from the Opposition benches.) He certainly hoped
that the discussion on the present occasion would not end in so
unsatisfactory a manner as that to which he had adverted.—
(Opposition cheers.) He could assure the Hon. Gentleman
that he was as warm a partisan as any could be ; but, at the
same time, he should say that it was the duty of all public men
to consider these subjects with a view to putting them on a
basis which would lead the country from its present state. He
cared very little for an adverse vote of that House if it was
only to have the effect of transferring Honourable Gen-
tlemen opposite to the Ministerial side of the House, provided
the measures, of the soundness of which he was satisfied,
were carried out. There was no question, whatever might be
the difficulties attending it, if it were founded on reason and
justice, that would not ultimately prevail. Therefore it was
that the principles of those measures, being founded on reason
and justice, would, the more they were discussed throughout
the country, make it the more apparent that it was for the
general good of all classes to put the Corn-laws and the other
measures adverted to on a sound and practical footing. It
was therefore, he said, that whatever might be the re-
sult of the coining division, he should with confidence look
forward to the period when those subjects would be carried
by a triumpht majority. Whether it was by those persons
with whom ho was united, or whether it was by Gentlemen
Opposite, as he had frequently seen them adopting the mea-
sures of their political opponents when they found a pressure
from without which they could not resist, that these measures
were carried, it was to him a matter of indifference if they
were brought to a satisfactory conclusion.— (Cheers.)
Mr. B. D'ISRA ELI said that he must declare, after all that
had occurred during the last Parliament, it was with surprise
he had heard the Right Hon. Gentleman who had just sat
down, appeal so frequently to the Right Hon. Member for
Tamworth, for some developement of his future policy. The
Right Hon. Gentleman had terminated his speech with a pa-
triotic peroration, which sounded somewhat familiar in his
(Mr. D'lsraeli's) ear; viz., so convinced was he of the truth of
the principles which he advocated, that whatever might be the
opinion of the House, even though it might be adverse to
those principles, yet he should support them in Opposition.
Had the Right Hon. Gentleman forgotton the distinguished
services of Mr. Wallace as Vice President of the Board of
Trade, which had preceded the services of Mr. Huss
kisson? The progress of economical and commercial
Reform had been arrested by the progress of Parliamentary
Reform. The Right Hon. Gentleman had spoken of the
Report of the Committtec on Import Duties as if that Report
had contained discoveries before unknown. He would not
undervalue the importance of that document, and he thought
the subject ought long before to have engaged the attention
of the Government, but he had yet to learn that the data on
which that Report was founded as new ; they ought to have
been long known to the Government, and he was certain that
sooner or later the results arising from those dates must afford
matter for legislation. But that was not the question before
the Howie or the country. The vote of want of confidence
had been come to on the ground that. questions so momentous
could not be satisfactorily discussed if they were propounded to
the House by a Ministry weak and incapable, and which had suf-
fered a series of defeats, which in any other reign would have been
considered as overwhelming. The country had ratified the deci-
sion of the [louse, and the only question for them to consider
was whether anything had happened since that vote to induce
the House to grant its confidence to the Government. On
what ground could that confidence be claimed ? Was it. on
the ground of the dissolution ? The result -had shown that
they had no knowledge of the feelings of the country. Was it
in the manner in which the elections had been conducted?
The history of the country afforded no instance of a Mi-
nistry addressing a constituency in such language ? What
could they say to a Minister who, after the House of Commons
had declared they had no confidence in him, could rise and defy
the opinion of that House, by saying he had the support of the
Crown, which was the best support a Minister could have ?
What would they say to the clandestine champion which the
Government had sent round to every borough in the country,
profaning the name of the Sovereign, as if the Majesty of Eng-
land had become the second candidate of every paltry hole ?
The Noble Lord doubtless recollected the words of one who
was once an ornament of that House—that the Sovereign of a
faction was only the Sovereign of half •f her people. lie
would not believe that the machinations of any men calling
themselves Ministers—and why they called themselves Ministers
was to him still a mystery—(a laugh)—he would not believe
that they could have succeeded in making the Sovereign of this
country the Sovereign of a faction, but if suds infatuation
should produce such miserable consequences—if her Majesty
were merely the Sovereign of the Whigs, she wa3 not the
Sovereign of one-half, one-quarter, or even one -eighth of her
people, but a miserable section, few in numbers, although
formidable from their name and principles, which had ever
been opposed to the true institutious of the country. Pulteney
had -recommended George the Second not to speak of the
Tories as his enemies, because they constituted two-thirds
of his people. It would be a good thing if the Whigs would
recollect the advice of Pulteney. Could they claim a renewal
of confidence in consequence of the speech which had that
day been delivered to Parliament? On the contrary, that
speech was the last effort of an expiring Government desirous of
laying the basis for a nascent Opposition. The Ministry bad
returned to the vomit, by referring again to the 13udget. They
would have to answer one question before the debate ceased—
they weuld have to tell by what tenure they held office.
Their leader had volnntcered a declaration that the opinion
of the new Parliament was averse to them. A party which
held power after it was aware that it did not possess the con-
fidence of Parliament was guilty of a high misdemeanour ;
that doctrine had been acted on when Parliament was not re-
formed, and such conduct had sent Denby to a dungeon, and
Strafford to the scaffold. —(Cries of " Oh, oh," and great "
laughter.) There were none of the Ministers who would
not confess that they held office by the same tenure as this
Ministers of Charles the First, by abusing the confidence of the
Sovereign, and in opposition to the opinion of Parliament—
( Cheers and laughter.)
Mr. R. BEItNAL, jun., knew not if he were one of the
clandestine champions alluded to by the Hon. Gentleman who
had just sat down, but this he knew, that he had been returned
to that House by a constituency which had. rejected the Hon.
Gentleman, who, whatever might be his free trade know-
ledge on other subjects, understood free trade in politics well.
—(Cheers.) When that Hon. Gentleman attacked the Go-
vernment, lie should recollect the time when he went down to
canvass a borough with letters of recommendation in his pocket
from Mr. O'Connell and Mr. Hume, and when he was pro-
posed by his friend Treacher, the Radical, and seconded by
his friend Rose, the Tory.—((;heers and laughter.) It would
be for the House is decide with how great force any rebuke
must come from such a quarter.—(Loud cheers.) " Gentle-
men,"
said the lion. Member, when he was immediately
stopped by shouts of laughter. " Well, I suppose you are
gentlemen.—(Cheers.) Then, Sir, I hope the House will ex-
cuse any little inaccuracies in point of form into which I may ,
fall."—(Loud cheers.) The lion. Gentleman continued—lie
stood before them entirely connected with one of those great
interests which would be affected by these measures—
he depended entirely on the West India interest, and by that
interest he must stand or fall, but he should record his
vote in favour of a reduction of the sugar duties, because lie
felt convinced that the ultimate prosperity and well-being of
the country depended on the sacrifices which the upper classes
must be prepared to make for the well. being of the lower.—
( Cheers.) In 1795 the average price of corn had suddenly
risen from Ms. a quarter to 765., the consequence had been
great distress in the country, fur wages had not risen in pro. ,
portion.—(llear, hear.) On the contrary, wages had fallen,
and the Magistrates, who were the landholders, had directed
the parish officers to supply the 'deficiency of wages out
of the poor-rates.—( Hear, hear.) That was the first
time that wages had been paid out of the poor-rates,
and he would ask, would it not have been better, before they 1

had passed the New Poor-law, to have re-modelled the Corn-
' laws, and on that to have founded their new system of Poor-
laws ?—(Cheers.) What was the present Poor-laws, but a
direct concession to the landlords, and to nobo:ly else.? Ile
wished the landlords would follow the example which he, their
brother monopolist, was prepared to set them, and would at
once accept an Bs. duty as a boon, the acceptance of which, if
delayed, would become small by degrees, and beautifully
less. Cheers. )
Sir CHARLES N APIER would reply to the speech of the
Hon. Member for the West Riding of Yorkshire, for lie must
confess that the speech of the Honourable Member op-
posite, who had just sat down (Mr. D'lsraeli), was ut-
terly beyond his comprehension. The Honourable Mem-
ber for the West Riding, in speaking of the present
Ministers, after throwing out his skirmishes pretty well, had
made his grand attack upon them for not keeping the promises
which they had made, on taking office, of peace, retrenchment,
and economy. The Hon. Gentleman said that they had taken
office in 1830, and eight or ten little wars had, during that.
time, been carried on by the Government. " Gentlemen,"
said the Gallant Commodore, amidst roars of laughter, in
which he himself joined—when the laughter had subsided,
the Hon. and Gallant Officer continued. If the Government
had carried on little wars, he hoped the Hon. Gentleman op-
posite would allow him to say, that if those little wars had not
been carried on with vigour and talent, they would not have
been brought to the satisfactory conclusion to which they had
been.7-(Cheers.) If Honourable Gentlemen opposite had
been in power, tl:ey might possibly have had great wars,
and with them great contracts and great loans.—( Cheers. )
He doubted if any. other person than the Noble Lord the
a,ceretary for Foreign Affairs would have preserved the peace
of the country in the manner which that Noble Lord bad been
able to do. The Hon. Gentleman had accused the Govern-
ment of making little wars. He had told them that the Go-
vernment which had held office for 18 years before the time the
present Government came into office had made but one war—
the war at Navarino ; hut that Hon. Gentleman had forgotten
that that Government made war with Algiers, and also in
India had engaged in the Burmese war, in which he be-
lieved a great deal of money had been expended. But
he had not told the House that while they were in office
they had suffered France to go to war with Spain, and
to march one hundred thousand troops into that country,
and put down a constitutional Government 'in that country.
What had been the results of the little wars which had been
made by the present Government. They had given a free
Government to Portugal. They bad given Spain a tree Go-
vernment.—(An Opposition Member here exclaimed, " Spain
is an absolute Government.") An Hon. Gentleman said that
Spain was an absolute Goverment. He only knew that there
was a Cortes in Spain as there was a Parliament in this coun-
try ; he was therefore justified in saying that there was a free
Government in Spain. The Noble Lord had put an end to
the most despicable tyranny which had ever been inflicted on
a country in Syria.—( Hear, hear.) He had restricted
Mehemet Ali within the limits of his own ter-
ritories; and he hoped that Turkey would have the
sense to act in accordance with the Noble Lord's views.—
(Cheers and laughter.)
Lord POLLINGTON was glad the Gallant Officer had risen,
because he had relieved them from the monotony of a Corn-
law debate. The Gallant Officer did well to dazzle them with
the successes of Syria, as if any man could doubt what British
val Our could do under a Stopford ot a Napier—( I. oud cheers)—
or as if the successes of those operations proved the wisdom of
the wars. What quarter of the globe was there in which her
Majesty's Ministers did not leave the British name less re-
spected than they found it ? Look at the ill-suppressed rebel-
lion in Canada, at the Bosphorus closed against our vessels, at
Our suspended commercial intercourse with Persia, at the pre-
sent state of the frontiers of India, at the war in China, where
net even the success which had attended their arms
could atone for the blunders of their diplomacy. Above
all, let them look at Syria. They were all aware
what had been the state of that country be-
fore it came under the power of that extraordinary man
who had so recently been our opponent—the ill-treatment of his
subjects, the total insecurity of life and property, and the utter
cessation of commerce. In a very short period the whole face of
things had been changed. Suddenly the Government deter-
mined to assist the Porte against Mehemet Ali, and the conse-
quences in his opinion would be most disastrous to this country.
With respect to the home policy of the Government, the coun-
try had already pronounced its decision, and he would not
therefore allude to it. He would only observe, in conclusion,
that when the Noble Lord opposite addressed the House at the
meeting of Parliament in 1831, he contrasted the state of his
own side of the House with that of his opponents, and said that
all the great cities and towns were represented by his party.
That could not be said at present.—( Hear, hear.) However •
weak the Government were as a Government, they would
prove a formidable opposition, but formidable only as those
eastern barbarians whom the Roman legions learned to fear,
but feared only on account of the poisoned weapons which they
hurled behind them in their retreat.—( Great laughter from
both sides of the House.)
Mr. EWART and Mr. ROEBUCK rose at the same time
to address the House, but repeated cries being made for the
latter, Mr. Ewart sat down.

Mr. ROEBUCK said, that if the question then proposed
to the House were simply an inquiry into the character of
the present Ministry he would have little difficulty in coming
to an opinion, though he might have some difficuity as it
was actually proposed. His opinion was adverse to the Mi-
nistry ; but on grounds so distinctly opposite from all those
which had been alleged by Hon. Gentlemen and Noble Lords
.opposite, that he could not reconcile to himself voting against
those whom he disliked only because they toe much resembled
them.—( Hear, hear.) But the question was not simply as to
the character of the present Ministry, it was a comparison
of character.—( Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Roebuck) did not
quite understand the analogy of the Right Hon. Gentleman
who had compared himself to a physician. He would have
thought that he was already called in when he was elected as
a Member of that House.—( Hear, hear.) He would never
dismiss one physician until he felt assured that he could ob-
tain a better in his place. He must have some adviser, and
though his present adviser might be inefficient and not alto-
gether, trustworthy, he might find one still more inefficient,
still less trustworthy. They had to find, then, whether lion.
Gentlemen opposite were,_ or were likely to he, better than the
present Government.—(Hear. )- They could know nothing
of the Government except -by their acts • and
he proposed to take such a retrospect of the
past , as should give them a full insight into the
character of both parties, and according to the result would he
give his vote on that occasion. He found at the outset of the
inquiry that the present Administration, in the year when tha
first Reformed Parliament met, in 1832, was predominant,
having power to do almost anything that it desired for the
, good of the country, and being forced into power by the strong
arm of the people. He found that party day by day losing its
influence until at length it had become so weak, tottering,
miserable, and wretched, that it was unable to do anything
either bad or good. He found the Right Hon. Gentleman,
who at that time was the leader of a broken phalanx, a party
which seemed for ever annihilated—he found him now, flushed
with success, at the head of a party eager for the spoil. How
came this to pass? The Right Hon. Gentleman and his party
contended that theyhed been vanquished, not only their persons
but in their principles, though they were glad enough, indeed, to
be able to say that the Reform Ministry, the pushing on, ad-
vancing, moving party, were at length conquered. The pre-
sent Government looked upon themselves as martyrs to their
Liberal principles. His (Mr. Roebuck's) explanation differed
from that of other parties. The ruin of the Government
was attributable, not to their too great liberality, but to their
forgetting their Own opinions.—(Hear, hear.) Flushed with
success in the year 1833, the Liberal party believed that they
had interred the party opposite ; they then believed that the
only party from whom they had anything to fear was the ex-
treme section on their own side of the House. They became
Conservatives. They were placed in power to work out Re-
form ; they stopped in their course, and cast contumely upon
those who pointed out that they were in error. They were
told that this opposite party was not dead; that it was strong
in wealth anti influence; that the clergy, many of the pro-
fessions, and nearly all of the landed interest were opposed to
them. But the Ministry declared that they had obtained
what they desired to effect by the Reform Bill, which was to
give a preponderating influence to the landed gentry.—(Hear, li
hear.) That was the real cause of their loss of power. They
were told that, unless they advanced, every day would add
strength to the opposite party, but they heaped scorn,
contumely, and hatred upon those from whom the warning
proceeded.—(Hear, hear.) Deeply grieved was he to think of
the golden opportunity which had thus been lost. That the
Ministry had thus lost the confidence which was reposed, and
justly reposed, in them for introducine. the Reform Bill. The
result of the elections clearly showed that they had lost the
confidence of the nation; hut it showed nothing more—it raid
nothing as to principles.—(Hear, hear.) The country had
simely declared that it did not like the present Government ;
hut when be said the country, la him not be misunderstood—
he meant the constituencies ; and the Ministry complained
that the trial had not been a fair one; that there had been
bribery, intimidation, and corruption. He must candidly tell
them that the fault was theirs, who had refused to remedy the
evil. Still was the conduct of the country wise in throwing off
the present Ministry for one of an entirely opposite character?
Before this question could be answered, it would be necessary
to compare the character of the two parties. This he was pre-
pared to do ; and in their conduct in reference to the colonies,
at home and abroad, wherever the present Government was in
fault, he found the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite their inge-
nious assistant. The Right Hon. Gentleman had been their
evil genius.—(Hear.) His comparison would extend over
the last ten years, and he would take the Colonial Secretary to
be the representative of the one party, and the Right Hon.
Gentleman opposite as the representative of the :other. In
judging of a Ministry as a party, he thought it was just to
take them in large proportions—not to look with microscopic
precision into their little divisions, but to take the whole tenor
of their policy. The first step of the Noble Lord representing
his party was the Reform Bill. The Right Hon Gentleman
representing his, true to his nature, opposed it, and checked
what he now admits to be an improvement. So far, then, he
was not at that time the friend of the people of England. Of
course he applied they observation politically, not personally.
That was the first thing on which they differed. The next
great improvement was their Municipal Corporation Bill. That
also was opposed by the Right llon. Gentleman step by step.
There was nothing infamous which he did not do to impede
that measure. Let all those in England who now had a voice in the
government of a borough recollect that the Right Hon. Gentle-
man and his party would have refused the Municipal Corpo-
ration Bill. Was that then the party which was to govern the
country ?

Sir it PEEL said a few words across the table, denying, as
we understood, that he had opposed the English Municipal
Corp,ration Bill. •
Mr. ROEBUCK said he would next refer to the Poor-law
Bill. Here he was sorry that he could not separate the Right
lion. Gentleman from his party. Not one single election had
pissed in which those who had come forward on the Liberal
side had not been met by vulgar appeals to the lowest passions,
for passing a measure which the Right. Hon. Gentleman hiin-
self had supported. The Right Hon. Gentleman had now
spoken of this conduct as dishonourable ; he had now turned
his countenance severely against those who had had recourse)
to it, although it ought to have been done.—(Hear'_htear
The greatest act which the Government had ever broogohses.
for-
ward was made use of against them for the basest
(Hear, hear.) Still that was the party which incl'u;,):ti•ierauil.e.),
for it had been so decided by the elections.—(lle!!-,
He believed that the principles of the party oppoezipteopwloeulotf!
work out their natural consequences; and that tn
England would rue the day :when those i !"-:
261,11Pfiend that they
action upon their own bidding, for they
""-es which were
could not obtain from that party those as I s came into
measures
tithe Liberal party
in-
dispensable to our commercial welfire•
in that House should
presentsubmit atow:ohneth:rili.:::il themselves.—( Hear,
for the people of England must
hear.) He found aticFsesoas
psi tsl vee now:
htoo circumstances,htha that opinion
brought
from the party of the Hon. G
was
ee7-teemP deniedan t°llPaPt7sidut e.c.b—( wasli etahre
hear.) But When they said it
on was to
things to their present position,
.h
n ipiiarty itself
Le
case—ittraced.
was
Andto the e :::ilti i tilt:)(,t Tuet.,
think
ke
tthbee
Whigireo
was answerable for that re,hsaultt,thbeeycaluvseere. it was they
ntheoy,Awhohad
made the constituencies w
experi-
enced the fruits of their own want of foresight, The lion.
Member who had introduced the amendment had alluded to
the foreign policy of the Government, but he (Mr. Roebuck)
should observe, that all the measures of foreign policy
in which the Government had been engaged, had received
no rebuke from the other side of the House. Why was
not one' of the wars in which the country had been engaged
taken up? Why was it not laid at the doors of the
Ministry ? And why were :they not told there is one
of sour evil deeds?—( Loud cheers.) But no such thing had
been done. (An Honourable Member on the opposite