The Sun.
London, England, 1823-08-02 00:00:00

DISTRESS IN IRELAND.

The adjourned • Meeting on Mr. OWEN'S Plans
fur relieving the Distress in Ireland took place yesterday at the
City of London Tavern.' Since the former meeting the subject
teemed to have excited'great attention, as the room yesterday
was crowded by . a highly respectable company,
.among whom
we remarked a great many Irish Gentlemen of character, and
the platform was graced by the presence of several beautiful
and well-dressed Ladies. I'Ve noticed the Ct' aintess of Glen-
gall and others connected With the leading families in Ireland;
and also Mrs. Wheeler, the Misses Wheeler, Airs. Hamilton
(of Mizell), Miss Ramsay, Mrs. Dr. Pinckard, Misti Pinckard,
-and a -great number df Ladies in the body of the Meeting,
amongst whom were many of the Society of Friends. •
Mr. Ott FN took the Chair •at one o'clock, and Was received-
with marked applause. He then addressed the Meeting to the.
following'effcci t....... .. . -
The meeting *lt ith was helithere on Titesday last to consider
a plan which I have matured for the relief the Irish peasantry-
and working classes generally, was adjourned to Thursday, but
in consequence of this room having been previously engaged,
-it became necessary to hold it on this day. The sanne,reasons
Which induced me to- fill the chair -on .Tuesdaye ,apply with
equal tarce en the present occasion. Some of the newspapers
contain remarks respecting the abience of many of my friends,
Members of the Legislature, who, on farmer occasions, have
given their countenance and support to the plan, while, in other
papers, the writers have been so kind as to make the best
apology that occurred to them. It is, perhaps, only necessary'
to say, that these Gentlemen have left town some time ago,
otherwise, I have no doubt, they would all have been pre..
sent, along with many others, Members of Parliament, who
now feel an increased interest in the measures which I re-
commend, because they are better acquainted with the sub-
ject. It is also Awe that I did not solicit the attendance
of any persons who are . deemed to
.be public charaaters,
and I purposely avoided doing so, because one and all of them'
-belong conspicuously to some class, sect, and pray, and it has
always been my most anxious desire to keep my proceedings
distinct from the views of any of these, but more particularly
at the late. Meeting, when I publicly declared my intention to
advocate an essential change of the present system of society.
In pursuing a measure which involves so many important con-
siderations in its consequences, I could not desire any of-my'
more. distinguished friends to give it their eupport, until it was,
fairly placed before the public in such a manner as to enable
them to form an accurate judgment of it, both in its detail and.
extent, in its principle and practice. It is nought thing for an'
individual to conic forward and say to the world, ". I have at-
tentively considered the state of society which has grown out of
the past transactions or mankind, and I deem it to be erroneous
-in principle and injurious in practice, and utterly incompatible
With the. attainment -of the desired ob,jects of human life,.".
The individual who can make up his mind so to act, takes a
responsibility upon himself the most awftil that the hunian
mind can contemplate: Ile opposes himself to the whitlow or
• the prejudices of all his - predecessors and cotemporaries,
and be undertakes to prove the truth of the Prineiples which he
advocates: and the error of all those Which have heretofore ob-
tained. If he fail, he must be content to be considered,a-weak
visionary, or a dangerous innovator, and,he becomes amenable
to society for all the evils Which his condlie7t may produee. Th
whole might of this hazardous responsibility I have bag been
prepared to take upon myself;. but in propOrtion to its magnitude
and: danger, am I' anxious .that no indil ideal should share it
with in'e It was-on this account that I did not ask any of MY
friends to he•preeent on the last. day of- our Meeting, and any
• of them who may be present on this occasion, I must cxonerato
from any
favour,
in my peculiar thoughts- and views.
Personal favour, and friendship for the individual' can.be of i
little il.rtiek in- the cause • which I have -undertaken.- 1.-am
directly opposed- to what appear to me the - errors of all putt
ges.- I must in consequence be opposed by the World ;,anli
inthat case, if my cause rest not tiport a rock, which th'eatnited
prejudices of • unmkiud• Cannot shake, of whet-avail can be
l;u: s'irppert of a few hundred or thousand friends ? No; Oils
131/ject: has been fbr some dine fur ronoved above any indiVi-
dual ,fitiour or-affection, and at the last Meeting it was eneried
far, -Iseyttnit the-snoport of any particular class, -meet,- party, or.
country'. It has now gone tOrtit into other lands to encounter
other preiudives besides those which are around us. It belongs
now to the world, and the world nmst decide as hi its truth or
falsehood,- its good or evil tenderniet. I, tlierefore,'standalone
in... this cause,' and depend upon no human aid whatever;
still less do I-rely upon any-power which I--can. call ray
own: Illy sole dependance is upon the truth and justice of ,
cause which ' I espouse; but the faculties to discern theae,
1 m de not, nor do I kilo* how they were finened within
me; Or yet did I combine -those powers, and circuinstandes,
ii
wide t have eo far fitted 'vie fbr the task I have ender-
taken, or which have given Me the resolution to come before'
you this day, without the slightest fear of what ' man can do
against me. • These things are far above Me ; far beyond what
my faculties enable me to comprehend ; and -before I can
know more, other powers must he given inN or more extended'
facts.thust be acquired by einerionee. - For the possession :of
what has been thus given 'me,'" claim no merit whatever; and
for the deficient el• myleetilties, knowledge,' and, experience, •
I take to myself no demerit. I, -therefore, come not befhie you
with any personal pretensions of -any kind ; I lock not.to have
a name among you, 'either now or hereafter. Popularity and
fame. are with me mere , sounds, inconvenient to listen to while
we remain in the world, and in my mind of no .Poesible value,
when we are removed out Of it. The power which formed limas
I am and placed me amitlat the circumstances in which I have
existed, has imparted to me a 'conviction stronger than I have
language'to express, that I can relieve my fellow creatures froth
the poverty, and miSery, and degradatiou which they have so long
experienced, and that impulse I must steadily obey until the
great work to which it is urging me forward' shall be accomplish-
ed throughout society. At our former Meeting, several well-
meaning individuals. presented themselVes to advocate some
favourite plans of their own ; I was then, as I trust I ever shall
be, unwilling to hurt the feelings of any one, and I allowed them
to proceed; but to-day I must request all who speak, to confine
themselves strictly to 'the subject of the Meeting, that the time
of those present may not be unnecessarily occupied.. - That no
one may misunderstand what the business- of the day is, it
may be necessary to state, that it is to consider a plan, which,
after much study and reflection, and more than thirty years
of extensive experiment, I recommend to be adopted for
the relief of the • working classes, and of Society.. gene.
rally ; and more particularly; from having lately spent nearly
eight months in Ireland, fbr the purpose •of investigating
its situation, • I recommend it 'to be immediately applied,
upon a large scale, to that country, as the only means which
can now be adopted with any hopes of success, to give produc-
tive-employment to the - people, and to relieve them from the
evils arising from religious dissensions, by removing the cause
from which they all originated, and which, while it shall he al-
lowed to remain, must continue to generate diem. : I also stat-
ed the !wane bby which the plan might be carried into 'exeCu-
tion. Those who speak, thereftwe, on the present occasion, are •
requeSted to keep those in view, and to bear in mind that
we are not met to consider any other plan hut this.- It is also
requested that those only will occupy the time of this Meeting
who have studied the subject before us—who have employed
the requisite means to make thennielyes, at least in some de-
gree, masters of the principles, and the practical arrangeMents
which we are about` to consider and discuss. And still further
to prevent misconception respecting those principles and ar-
rangements, allow me shortly to re-state what they are..
It is submitted, I. That the character of man is chiefly form-
-ed by the circumstances in which he may beplaced, and prin-
cipally and essentially by the geographical circumstances of his
birth. .
.. _

2.rhat it is therefore most to be tle%ired that those who di-
rect the affairs of mankind. should be well informed respecting
the influence which those'circumstances which they have the
power to remove or replace, have, over the well-being and hap:
pines* of their fellow.ereatures.
3. That one of the most unfavourable circumstances that has
ever influenced the conduct of mankind, is the notion that any
individual can have merit or demerit for the particular opinions
given to him.
4. That the first step requisite to produce real virtue in so-
ciety, is to withdraw that error from the human mind; and as
every fact that has ever beeti known to the human race proves it
to be tut error, It will be true wisdom now to reject it.
.5. That by Its rejection the means would be immediately in
our power to withdraw all fwger and irritation from society,
and to introduce peace, real charity and kindness throughout
the world. • . _

O._
That the chief obstacle would also be thus removed, to
the .combination in practice, or all those circumstances which
are best calculated to improyc the &erecter of all Ininviduqs,.

•
and aro most favourable to the creation and enjoyment of
wealth. n _

7. That the arrangements which are proposed, have been
specially devistsl with the view to exchule whatever the past
has proved to be injurious, and include whatever experience
has demonstrated to be beneficial.

8. That, in cattsequence, it becomes necessary that the op.
ponents of this plan should- show in what respeetthese'practical
measures t►re likely to fail in any of the important objects re.
(erred to. _

I have now also to add, that although it appears to nie to be
erroneous in principle, and highly ,pernicious mpractice, to at-
tribute merit or to attach demerit to the opinions of individuals
when the will has no power whatever in the formation of
those, opinions, yet I cannot regard. all opinions wet equal
value; I must estimate them according to their. truth or
. falsehood, or their consistency or inconsistency with each other,
and with all those facts with which experience hal; snide us
acquainted. It is, therefore, the opinioos solely, of which I
approve- or- disprove; I do not condemn the individuals
who have been made to entertain- them t file Ott*l eadfe,.el
only.allection or compassion. Aud farther.; ttar as the Mere
opinions of men can have no influence whatever upon mat-
ters of eternity, no man, or set of men, can, by saying that
there is, or that there is not, a future state, establish the truth
of the one or the other proposition. Nor do I think, according;
to the prim' Iles which I have advanced, that one particle more
of merit or demerit belongs to the individual, whether he adopt
the one or the other. 'l'o my own principles I attriteute no
more merit or demerit than Ido to those of other men. As a
human being whose will has no power over his opinions, I can
• only state, with reference to this subject., that the facts impress-
ed upon my Mind compel me to believe, that after death
we shall eternally exist, but in what state or fbrin I am
unable, front want. of adcliiional .facts, to do more' titan' con-
jecture ;- but sure I am, if the Supreme Ruler of the tini.
verse be infinitely wise, powerful, and just, that not one
of Ili shall exist under eternal punishment; nor is it neces-
sari, as it appears to me, that we should longer frighten those
intellects that have been made weak and irrational,. with any
such error. For the time is near when the world will no longer
be governed by uncertain precept, but by unerring practice ;
and not by fear, but by love. This declaration having been
made, that the world may not uselessly dispute about any sup.
posed speculative Opinions of mine, which are of no - more real
value than those of any other man possessing equal- experience,
let us new proceed to the regular businew of the day, not with
a desire to gain a victory over any individual or party, but with
a sincere and honest intention to elicit truth, and to benefit our
suffering fellow-creatures.
- This Address was received with great applause.
Mr. Ova r. 'then said lie would, with pennission of' the
Meeting, withdraw the former Resolutions, which were merely
declarations., and pmpose a new series more practical. lie then
read the. following* Resolutions :-
1.. That, as it has now- been stated by an experienced, disin-
terested individual, that lie has devised new arrangements, by
which I,ooo.persona, inclUding the usual average of all ages,
can produce by. their labour, properly directed, millicient to
,
-maintain themselves. in comfort, and to support two thousand
Moro ~ttlis Alectingrecominend to his Majesty's flevernment
to advance 60t tt(any funds at their.disposal.thr. ,thc employ-
Anent Of the poor,'lni adecpla,.e sum or sums of money, at or
4 per cent, interest, for the purpose of trying one experiment,
in England; Scotland, and Ireland, but snore especially in the
Latter cutintry, oft the plan proposed by Mr, Uwett,, upon. con.
tine p4ment nit, rest and the repayment of ►prin-
bail,lint,4sit:ll4-.)"l2:ittori.l7.lon the lands to he purchased, and the
Nei erected, for 4he purpose of carrying such elope.

'2. Tin: Grace the'lhike of LeinitiCr, General Sir Jelin
.floy le, -and JI4In Salida If.eq., A .P. be requested to submit
the above; apiAiration.te his Majesty'it Governmeet.,
Zl• That a Qinithiittee be appointed to report the result of this
apPlientlen tethe Public
1. Tina-the above Noblemen tun' Gentlemen, with the Sub-
iber* to the Loaneforeinstituting the, experiment at Ai:alter.
hellie.„ CoMinittee, with power to add to their number,
anti that INC be a. otnatunt.
Alr. °wine then. further ,oleterectl, that just before he
had entertNi the room a .note had been pitrinto his hands,
.evidently written br
person of intelligence se-
veral. inquiries, licit he would answer. ' Containing
The first gees-
ifoe 'related to the profit likely to accrue from the proposed
investment of capital. It was not customary for own of Mt-
sirresa to auto their' prOlits, but as he had na commercial
secrets, be had no hesitation in declaring that during twenty-
Tour years of experience at New Lanark, the result had been,
after paving the interest et' capital, 5 per cent., half yearly; to
letive a vereefeir, fell, and Mend profit. Ile could enure the
Aleeting that the other partnere would readily give a bonus to
have the Concern wholly to themselves.
He could scarcely speak
more decidedly as to ite commercial success. Its would also
state, in explanation, that during the greater part of diet
time the hours of labour for the working people had been
fewer than in any establishment of a similar kind. Tin
within the last four or five years it was not tarequent for'
their competitora to work their people fourteen, fifteen, and'
even sixteen' hours a day, vrhile the establishment at New
lateark had never worked the persons in its employ more than
eleven hours a day, ..and during the hit five or six years only
atai houra.--(Applauke.)-41e mentioned this as no recom-
mendation of themselves; experience had taught them that
moderate labour was not more necessary or profitable to the
labourer himself than to his employer. The labour of nine
hours daily -would enable hint to produce more, and sup-
port himself at much less expenee, because he would be In
better health. It was proper also to add, that during this
whole period, the Whole of the rising populetion of New
Lanark had been educated in a manner very
far superior to
that in which the • children of the working classes were edit-
catetl in any part of the world. This education had cost
the proprietors not less than 700/. iv year; yet even in a com-
mercial" point of view they had never expended a shilling,
that had produced so many valuable Testae. When the pro,
fits were talked of, it was
.proper to take all these circuits.
stances into consideration. Still, however, the establishment
litul left a full and fair profit to all concerned. The writer of
the note tepoke of the proposed low) as sort of charitable do.
nation. Novi, if for one moment he (Air. 0.) considered it ne-
cessary to ask for one shilling for, the new arrangements as
charity, he would regard them r_ of no value. No circumstance
supplied matter for more melancholy reflection than to know
that there were thousands and tens of thousands, of our fellow.
subjects in England, supported by charitable donations. The
poor rates were a system of the most degrading pauperism, while
there were facts before the eyes of the public calculated to prove
irresistibly that the capital now wasted in maintaining every
I 000Paupersit tight. by being placed tinder regulated and orderly
circumstances, not only Kustain abose persons in comfort, but
create a surplus to siipport 2000 more. Was there any kind
of common-sense in the present mode of proceetllrtg as to the
poor I, With respect to the calculations to which lie had ad-
verted at the former Aleeting, he would beg: leave to remark,
that they were three distinct calculations, very accurately and
carefully made, after spentl,hig several months in Ireland, col-
lecting the facts on winch they were founded. Air. Owen then
stated in detail the principles on which he had proceeded in
making the calculations. He had made them, not as a theorist,
but as an old experienced roan of businees, able to to make al.
lowance for all the. draWbecks that might reasonably be ex-
pected. At the present prices of agricultural produce, he
wciieircenicontipltehtnet, inn capital I or
ofr t ten years, when the arrangements
. would yield an annual
it
produce of 30,0004 These. calculetions were made an.At
average soil, but there Wag no land . that would m
afford -a very ahtn profit. [At this peeina, by ili:
()wen's directions at representation of one of his vil.
}ages was tinfcdded.l. With respect to the formation of
charecter, he had alreatlyallstinctly stated, thet wilt tedno power
over oPiition. This doctrine did not, in the stnellest degree,
affect the truth or falsehood of religion. He said nothing ea to
any of the current religions' but he would stew, that am ieelt axe
error was current, the world must be involved ire disorder.—
The first step towards the introduction of peace- and, good
order wee to impress on the minds of men that no intlivi-
dual was entitled to assunte that his opinions were eaperier to
those of others, or that he could by possibility bevel( particle
at' merit for those given to him.--(Annlause.)—lt was hue
portant to know how opinions were formed ; and, therefore,
perhaps, the Meeting would excuse him fur dwelling on the
topic. When an infant came into the world, it was manifest
that be had no 'time. It was equally evident that he could have
no will in deciding in what part tit the world he should receive
his bird', whether in Europe, Asia, Africa, or America,—
Wherever an individtial was born, if he remained there, lie
won't! receive all the early impressions of that particular gen-
graphical situation. Had any person in that meeting been con.
veyed, like a gentleman who bad spoken on the former ix:elution
(Mr. Ifunter), among the American tribes, would he nut hav'e

acquired their language; their sentiments, their feelings, and
their character? Was there. one of them, who, under these
circumstances, would not have followed the chace, and scalped
their enemies ? Vet in consequence of retraining where they
were, what a difference was there in the character, counte.
!lance, and complexion, which they all possessed ! Re was
astonished, or, to speak correctly, he would have been - asto.
nished; if he had been ignorant of the subject, that the world
proceeded so long without discovering a truth so ob-
abvioQtutsi.ditilve e now come to the last question. If it was true that the
character of Mankind seas formed/ter them, and not by them, it
was highly important to know what and who should form their
characters. Which of all the religious sects or parties should they
fix upon tbr that purpose? If they would agree on that point, he
would go as far with them as they pleased. In his opinion, it was
highly unjest that any parties Atonic! attempt to force the con.
science of any individual. His own praedee hitherth had been, to
leave all persons at perfect liberty to follow the sect in which they
were trained, or which their riper judgment had adopted. It
was the professed wish of all parties that their children should
know the best principles, and follow the most beneficial prae-
ticee. Were children capable of judging of those principles
and practices ? He wished to enable then, to obtain some ex-
perience before he forced uncertain precepts on their mind.-a
But though that was his oWn opinion, he was aware how wna.
ciously parents in general claimed the right of early iniehiting.,
certain religious notions into the Minds of their ehildren, and
therefore he should conceive it a kind of despotism if be had
compelled them to bring up their children contrary to their
own conscientious feelings. Having explained his own views,
sentiments, and practice, regarding education, and it was a
subject of the highest possible importance to mankind, be
would proceed to explain the representation displayed betbre
them. The buildings on the right and left in the centre, were
intended for the education of the children from the age of two
years to twelve or fourteen. There were many then present
who witnessed the extraordinary effects of education on very
young children. The arrangements he recommended were not
mere theory, but the result of 30 or 40 years' experience. Ile
had no wish to be accounted the founder or inventor of them.
He cared not by whom the people at large were enabled to en-
joy that health, comfort, and happiness, which were their un.
doubted, right. He begged pardon for detaining the meeting at
setth length, but he should be happy to give any other explana-
tion which might be required.—(applause.)
A, person from the body of the nteeting wished to know' from
Mr. Owen whether the extract from a periodical publication
which he held in his hand was correct ? (The pamphlet was
handed up to Mr. Owen.)
. Mr. Owner said he was extremely obliged to the geutleman
wife had called his attention to that publication; it referred to
some late transactions in the Genera! Assembly of Scotland, in
which, by thopiesbytery of Lanark, lie had been accused of
withdrawing the Scriptures from the schools in his establish-.
ment. Ile was aware of all the secret movements connected
with that proceeding. 'lt arose' from the minister of Old La-
nark. He (Mr. Owen) had been at New Lanark now nearly
twenty-four years. When he went there lie found a population
selected from the dregs of the Lowlands of Scotland, more de-
moralized than any he Weyer seen. He was an entire
,stranger
to them, and was, of course, supposed to be a cotton Manutac-
tore? anxious only to extract thelast shilling. lie dill'ered wait
them in country and in religion. Every prejudice . was
against him. Ilaving then the same principles and VlO,lB as at
present, he felt a real concern for their condition, and he was
determined to try the experiment in which he ed sinee'SO
eminently succeesled. For some yeats.lie could make no see-
sible progress. At length it happened that an embargo was
laid on the ports of Xtnerica, and in consequence the raw mate-
rial of his manufacture advanced to so extraordinary a height,
that he judged it impolitic to, use it. 1k therefore mopped
the works. At that time there were 1;500 or 1,600 persons em-
ployed, and wageS were then at the highest ; but instead of dis-
charging them, he kept them foe months, and paid them their
full wages. The whole amount was about 7,0001. Even
in a pecuniary point of view, never was a RUM *ended more
beneficially.--(atpplanee.)—elfterwards they listened to him
with more attention ; he was then enabled to commence his new
System, and step by Step witlidraw 'the unfaeouralile eireurn.
stances which surrounded them, and introduce others in, their
stead. After at foy years, when they had experienced the be.
neflt of the change, their minds were prepared' to go forward
mere rapidly-than he had changes to give •thena eV thus re-
moving all the bad habits of the population, he hoped to have
gained the goad-will of all parties ; but as part of these changes
was to put an end to the habit or drunkenness, it tidlowect
that the publie.house keepers thond their custom reduced ;
and as he instituted a place for the dale of better and cheaper
provisions than could be obtained in the cominoo market,
it also followed that those who kept provision shops touted their
trade fall tee and he was sorry to say, that he believed the
great change had produced had had a bad edict rm. thin
minister of the parish.---(llear, hear, hear !)—Since that
period, he had watched the progress of New Lanark as a
cat watched a mouse. Ile had publicly found fault with a
tlstradtrasincalinvaidintalot,
bwyhowoennlshAolu,arettigl
httorrhantievaepiteu' world
He (Mr. Owen) was not ignorant of the secret measures „
adopted to circulate every false report respecting New Lanark ;
pet,' as he could not experience anger towards any imßviduel,
lie had, allowed the rumours to which he had now alluded, to
pass by him, " like the idle wind ;" and if lie had not been
publicly charged with wishing to remove the Scriptures front.
the schools of NeW Lanark, by the Presbytery of Lanark,
urged forward by the individual whom he had mentioned,
he would have forbome from taking the slightest notice of
the rumour now. Mr. Owen then read the extract by which
it appeared dint the Presbytery of Lanark hoof applied to
the General Assembly of the Scotch Church, respecting
:the removal of the Scriptures from the schools at New
Lanark, and that the Synod had directed the Presbytery to
take adVice. The result, continued Mr. Owen, is extremely'
good, for I sitseerely believe that T never knew a set of men,
who more wanted advice.—(baugjiter.)—Nothing is in general
more completely puerile than the personalities current in so.
ciety. They are quite beneath the notice of any rational being ;
but with regard to the Presbytery of Lanark, the time is poet
when they ought to bring forward their claims to superin-
tend the practice of any school. If there in any law now
'existing, that gives the General Assembly such an authority,
it is high time that that law should be repealetL From the
commencement of my proceedings in . that estebliehment,
the Scriptures have been regularly and systematically read in
these schools. I never had an idea of withdrawing thena—(Ap.
plause.)—Be apt deceived,l have not had an idea of withdrawing
them, not because I had no doubt of the propriety of withdraw.
ing them, but because 1 wished every individual to bring up his
children exactly as he pleased. My conviction is that the Scrip-
tures is. not the best book to put into tire hands of young children,
(apPlanse) but because Tam desirous of paying respect to all con.
RIC
ill eanveee sh,elarnde vale aso avvea,rll
variety
ye voerf
owtihlerlevriedpidorratswatthceuttedm.(Arritl:tuotshee.r)
channels : I disregard them all. 'the diets are open to the:
world atiNew Lanark.• For many years I have submitted thent
to the examination of natives and,foreigners---rieh and poor—
men of every class, sect, and party, who chose to take the
trouble of inspecting them. Every visitor might remain there
a day, a week, or a month, and examine its minutely as he
Oleased. Ido not say too much when I assert, that at this
hour there does not exist a more moral or religious set of people
in this empire, than the. inhabitants of New Lanark—(ap(ileome)
—.nor is there anywhere the same number of children, with the.
same good dispositions and habits, and with the same high and
useful in tell igenee..—(Applause.)
Another person requested Mr. Owen to explain a passage in
a pamphlet written by Mr. Abraham Comber respecting tint
absence of religious instruction at the- establialuneut at New
Lanarkt
Mr. Owiils. observed that the pamphlet was composed with.
out his knowledge. The inhabitanta of New lama* were
Christians, and very sincere Chili:ilium). He repeated he had.
made no aVentpt to withdraw the Sceiptatres front thoschools.
Dr. NVetatiene who-obtained the attention of the company,
after some oppoenion. He observed that it was an appalling
thing for him to meet so many English faces, lint he was
promptedur go on by the strong feeling he had upon this sub..
sect.. He lived in a country which was the most heavily taxed
m the world, and his opinion was,- that it was necessary we•
should, by the superioe old ofmachinery tax, the rest of the world'
in return. But, were was this philinuhrepist who opposed the
extensive use of machinery. . . • '
Mr. OWEN rose to eider. lie assured thein that his
meats score directly the reverse. His opinion was, that if we
had made a proper use of the improvements', in the arts told
sciences, the labouring classes would not be called upon to work
more than one hour a day, and would then gain far mere fired
than they mould possibly onetime to their advantage.
Me, Ai tibia then Tose. Haviog endeavoured, et the last
Meeting, to eater into.. an explanation and defence of Mt-
Owen's views, he had employed his few. hours., of leisurereince

the last Meeting to reduce to writing what he now wished to
say fully on that subject. Mr. Mudie then commenced tho.
perusal of a written address of tanutiderable length, for which
purpose he resumed his seat behind a. table on which senile
pieces of coloured wood were displayed.
Mr. Evaxs rose to order., He understood that the object of.
this Meeting was to apply to Government for assistance to
carry Mr. Owen's plans into effect: lie vita sorry to interrupt
the gentleman, but his address seemed to be wholly irrelevant to
that object. •

Mr. 'Mum E contended that he was in Order, 'as be was ob-
. viating objections which had been advanced against Mr.
Owen's plan.
Mr. Down: Wished to know what time Mr. Mudit intended
to occupy ?
Several gentlemen observed that the written address of Mr.
Mudie did not scent to be in immediate connection with the
business of the Meeting, and Ought' therefore to be closed.
Mr, Trt tart r submit-tad that Alt. MUdie's address was only
a reply to Mr. Mahon, and that as he had had one reply at the
former meeting, this second edition WleMost inekular—( 11 ear l)
A fter sem e observa t ion it flint Mr. Crooke and Mr. Henderson,
Mr. awns' requested the meeting to allow 31r. Mudie short-
1y to explain.
Mr. 'Muni E regretted the interruntion be bed experienced'.
lie would now, however,-pass over the :largemass of the paper
he had to read,! and explain the coloured pieces of wood before
him. Be employed theM for a sensible representation of the
whole population of the country. The pieces in the centre weie
intended to represent the King and the lloyal Family in the
inner circle were the nobility and land-owners ;' in the outer
circle were comprehended most of the parties in that room.—
(Laughter.) He meant capitalists, fundhoblers, manufacturers,
merchants, clergy, the liberal professions, the army and navy, in
short all the classes below the landowners and above the labourers
and paupers, who were represented by the pieces in each earlier.
Mr. Caxszom said the speaker was throwing over the solem-
nity of the meeting the appearance of a mere farce. lie ren-
dered it perfectly ridiculous.
Mr. You sro wished the proeeedings to be brought into is
train of order. The proposal of petitioning Parliament should
be put, and he trusted would be carried unanimously.-4Ap-
Mr. Al U'DIE said he would withdraw. Mr.
EvaNs thought that joint. stock' communities, such at.
Mr. Owen wished to establish, could not legally exist, unless
they obtained from Parliament a corporate character, giving
them pOwer to sue and to be sued.
Mr. 0 w EN•observed, that the objection, which bad been
started by the Gentleman who, spoke lust had been fully tannii
dered„ and it was ascertained that there were many
.ways in
which the difficulty which he anticipated might be obviated.
'A Gentleman, whose name we could not learn, suggested that'
the poor-ratex might be advantageously devoted to the establish-
ment of societies on Mr. Os'en's plan.
Mr. Go u 'MAY merely rose fbr . the 'purpose of entering his
protest, in the name of the paupers and labourers of England,
against the abominable triflings of the meeting.
Mr. P. LEE spoke in favour of a plan which he held to Its-
very superior to Mr. Owen's scheme, that of Mr. Nowlang,
which had been tried at Kilkenny which provided for a reit..
ghats estalkshment, and which did not separate parents front
children, and brothers from sisters--(" Neither- does that of MT.
Owen," was remarked by several Gentlemen.)—lie promeded
to vindicate the doctrine of rewards and punishmente. hereafter,
and to controvertthe principle that the will had no power over
the opinion of en individual.

Mr. BOWIE denied that there was any thing hi the plan of"
2.111. Owen which went to withhold 'from his fellOw.creaturis •
the consolations of religion. • Ile defended the genetalprinci-
ples on which the plan was founded, than which nothing could-
mote happily illustrate the Words of Scripture, " Behold how
pleasant it is for brethren to live together m tommunity." lie
considered it to embody all that was amiable and desirable ;
and if the plan of Mr. NoWland was to be compared 'Ali ir,
that.plan Ought not to have been garbled, brit ought to have
been brought fully before-the Meeting. A
GE NVI.E SAX wished the plan to be tried; but thought
it would be better tried by means ofthe benevolence of the
British public tbaln connection with Government int4rference.
It appeared to him .practicable be' Geeopying paupers on waste,
lands wannibilatepoors' rates. . lie douhc.ai the _.proprletf.of
making any applioation at 01l to (;overnment.
Mr. CummrNit:considered the plot Of Itr. Owen Want-co in`_
wive all classes of Soefety, and by s,) hi volving them, to stiff,
vert all the existing dis tibctions- Ile objocttt .to the proposed
appeal to the Governuicot and the 1,0,1;ot:re in sto Tort or
the plan. .1f it could not flourish Without aid from the t;overn..
Ment and the. Legislature, it ought to: perish.
Another bent :man, whose name ..was .. not announced, re-
cotnniended the appointment of -a Committee to consider the
Plan,' and the Iwacticahility of .itilindinit• relief to those 0 Ittbr,
-tunate individuals who hia.been thrOwn our of employment by
the improvements in machinery. . .
Mr. Owpi stated the cottage system to be no longer prac,
ticable front the extended and increasing use of machinery..—.
Mr. Nowland's plan had been brought forward in opposition
to his. lie was intimately acquainted with the establishment,
which hat) been Nmed at Kilkenny. Mr. Nowland was Welt
known to him, and it was from him (Mr. Owen) that that ilea..
Homan had obtained the information on which he had acted; in
fotruing.his establishment, which it was admitted on all hands
had compleiely changed the character of . the n'eighbourhood.
It was said that his plan went to take the child, from the parent,
the brother from the sister. Quite the contrary; it went to
keep theta more constantly together than was done by any
existing system.

r. nowt:nary exposed the fallacy of some of the argument 9
opposed to Mr, Owens plan, 'and spoke in favour of making
some effort to afftird relief to the people of Ireland.
The question being put on the Resolutions, every hand was up in favour of them but two.
After passing a vote of thanks to. Mr. Owen, the Meeting
separated.

FINE A RTE.—We understand the sum of
15,0001. has Wily been offered,,as a private bid.,
ding, for the celebrated picture by- Sebastian de
Piombo, of Christ raising Lararus, in the Anger-
stein Gallery, but that not hqs than 15,000'
guineas would he a:cepted. It is supposed that
the Wading wus made on behalf of Mr. Be eltforrit
the late proprietor of Fonthill, and rejected.
principally from a conviction that tin' larger smut
will be obtained front the King. of France, who
is known to be extremely desirous of embelildt.
hie his collection with this chef d'ertore. The'
following interesting notice of the work is given
in Young's Catalogue of the Angerstein Gallery,
lately published, according to report, under the'
directions of Sir Thomas Lawrence :—" Car-
dinal Giulio de Aledice,- afterwards Clement
VII., for whom Raphael painted the Trans-
figuration, being desirous of presenting an al-
tarpiece to the Cathedral at Narbonne, etiguged
Sebastian de Piornbo to execute a' work of the
same dimensions as the Tr ansfivrtaion,
lecting for his subject The Resurrection 4-11
*arcs. The composition of this grand picture
was entirely the work of Michael Angelo, rind'
the execution of, the figure of Lir...woo 4 fejt els
the chance of cvrry other hand.' fiefore this.
celebrated picture was sent to Narbonne, it was
exhibited at Rome, in competition with the lust
work arid the clitfitheuvi e of Raphael, and ex-
cited universal admiration. It was afterwards
placed in the Orleans collection by the Regent
of France, and subsequently purchased from the
proprietor by Mr. Angerstein," \Ve may t,k,
this °ppm tunity of stating, that it is reported the
pres..nt Angerstein feels most desirous to re!«
taut leis lather's ehoirr collection of paintingii.eft-
t ire in his own possession, but is C0(010411410
dispose of them under the provisions of the wi