The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-19 00:00:00

per' week, or 2d. per day, that they " subsist on
rice; and when rice fails they starve." He says " I haie
seen the people by hundreds and thousands hurry towards the
point at which relief was distributed by the Governor of
Bengal. I have seen whole villages swept away by a dread-
ful inundation, and vast tracts of land utterly ruined." And
then he gives a picture of horror which exceeds anything
that the most romantic imagination ever pictured. I know
of nothing more striking than that statement. ( Hear. )
He says I know this, that an official charged with a mission
from Calcutta, was obliged to return back in consequence of
the smell from the carcases of persons who had died from
famine. Looking at our relations with that country' if we are
responsible for the moral condition, for the happiness, and
comfort of its inhabitants, shall I be told that there is some
superior obligation which makes me encourage the slave pro-
duce of Cuba, in preference to the produce of a country from
which I exact a large amount of produce, and where the
labourers are in the condition I have stated? These are the
grounds I thought before, and which I still think ought to
induce me to give my vote for the resolution of my Noble Friend
the Member for Liverpool.—( Hear, hear.) I never sought to
inflame the minds of the people of this country on the subject
of slavery. I never took an asd.ive part on the subject. I
gare my support to my, worthy Friend, although I confessed at
the time that I viewed the matter with apprehension, but I
gave my support to it. I never lent myself to the cry of
slavery, and I will not now lend myself to the cry of cheap
sugar when the slavery cry begins to fail.—( Cheers. ) The
Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Devonport has charged
my Right Hon. Friend the Member for Cambridge and myself
with inconsistency, with respect to .East. and West Indian
sagir. lle stated that it. was discussed in the Cabinet of
which Lord Ulcnelg was a member, whether or not East
Indian sugar should not be placed on the same footing as West
Indian sugar. He said it. was clear that that proposition was
submitted to the Cabinet, and that the great principle involved
in tie question was giving protection to slave sugar in pre-
ference to West Indian sugar, and the Right Hon. Gentleman
after stating this asked with great warmth if we were prepared
to ride into office upon such manifest inconsistency. I, Sir, do not
recollect anything sff that sort. having taken plaee, nor does
my Noble F'riend bird Glenelg. If he had recollected such a
circumstance I should instantly have bowed to his decision ;
but I think that my Lord Glenelg's impression is the same as
mine, that the proposals were never submitted to the conside-
ration of the Cabinet. I believe they were communicated by
lay Disable Friend to some Alembers of the Government, but
they never underwent any formal consideration. In 828 and
18:29 we declined to adopt these resolutions. It is trut that
my Noble Friend said he (lid not assent to the principle of
th;Jm ; but the principle to which my friend referred was the
reduction of the duty on sugar, for the purpose of increasing
consumption, but the introduction of East India sugar and
s'ave sugar never was the subject of discussion. It must be
remembered, too, that since that time slavery has been abolished
in the colonies of this country ; and it must be recollected also
that there was at this time a bounty upon %%rut India sugar.
The protection then was a complete one, and therefore sugar
the production of slaves, could not enter into competiton.
Sir, !was surprised, in the course of this debate, to observe the
altered tone taken by gentlemen on the other side
of the House with respect to slavery.—( Loud cheers.)
I must sty that after all our Magnificent professions, I was sur-
prised at the course which On the other side of the House they
are prepared to take. We are to tell foreign countries that we
have at length discovered the only effectual way of putting
an end to slavery and the slave trade. We
are to tell them that the only way to do that is to encourage
competition between sugar the produce of free labour, and
that which is produced by slaves—( Great cheering)—and then
we are to be told that this proposition of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer is really and truly brought forward, not so much
to encourage the consumption of sugar, but for the purpose of
putting an end to the slave trade.—(Great cheering.) How
was it proposed to extinguish slavery ? Why, by open-
ing the markets of England to sugar, the produce of slave
labour. Such a proposition, I will venture to say, will be
scouted in every part of the country.--( Hear, hear.) Again,
I have heard in this debate, on the authority of a Cabinet Mi-
nister, that the delinquencies of other countries are no con-
cern of ours ; that it was quite indifferent to this country what
course other countries might pursue. I think that such a state-
ment ig unworthy the source from which it comes, and I hope
that the time is far distant, before we shall hear it broached again.
The Hein. Gentleman, the Memberfor Wolverhampton said that
the United States had as much right to refuse to trade with us
on the ground that we would not take their cotton, as that we
had a right to say that we would not receive into this country
sugar the produce of slave labour. The Hon. Gentleman has
also stated that the municipal regulations of other States were
no concern of ours, and that we had no right whatever to hold
any language which might be considered as dictating ths! course
they should pursue. That may be all very well, but I don't
think it is the language that her Majesty's Government •;would
hold. Let the House look at the course which the Noble ..):.ord
has pursued in making treaties with other countries. It I
understand rightly the Noble Lord, in making the treaty witi.k
Texas, he made it one of the provisions of that treaty that they
should abandon the slave trade. I cannot therefore think
that it is matter of indifference that we should
see what course other countries will take with
respect to slavery. I think, whatever Hon. Members may
say of the influence these propositions have had in the country,
that the country would view with disgust and alarm the aban-
donment of thelposition this country has hitherto maintained in
its opposition to the introduction of foreign slave-grown sugar.
Sir, the real question is not whether a certain amount oca-
pital is employed in sugar refining—in this trade or in that—
the great question is, whether we do not incur the hazard of
giving a fresh impetus to sugar the produce of slave-labour.—
( Hear, hear.) It appears to me that in abandoning that posi-
tion you are descending from the high position you have here-
tofore occupied. , Sir, you have made great sacrifices to carry out
this experiment. You have paid twenty millions of money to
emancipate your slaves in the 1i est India Colonies. 1 trust that
that disinterested conduct will still be maintained by you, and
that you will not disqualify yourselves from holding up the ex-
ample of England as an example for other nations.—( Hear,
hear.) The Noble Lord the other night, in comparing the po-
sition of England with that of Rome, observed that the circum-
stances of England were entirely different, and in a beautiful
paraphrase of Dryden observed—
.. Rome, it is thine alone with awful sway,
To rule the world and make mankind obey, .
Dispensing peace and war thine own majestic way,"

—( fleas', hear.) Sir, we are in different circumstances, for
we have formidable competitors in the arts of war. We can no
longer rule mankind by physical force, we can no longer
compel obedience to our decrees by hysical force,' but
I had hoped, till this debate, that there was an awful
sway by which we might still rule mankind, and make
the world obey by the influence of our example, and the disin-
terested efforts we bad made for the abolition of slavery and
the slave trade.—(Loud:cheers.) Sir, I am sorry the Noble
Friend did not continue his quotation a little further—
" To tame the proud as:he fettered slave to free,
These are imperial ar.s, and worthy thee."
—(Much cheering.) Sir, that is the majestic way in which
I hope we cannot dispense peace or war but dispose other na-
tions to follow in our path, and by our all-glorious example to
promote the interests of humanity.—(Cheers.) S;r, these
are the grounds on which I shall vote for the resolution of my
Noble Friend ; and in voting for that resolution I am taunted
by the Noble Lord with pursuing a factious course. The Noble
Lord commenced his speech by repelling with indignation the
accusation preferred against the Government, and said he was
confident that no man who had watched the progress of events
could by possibility suspect them of bringing forward any
public measure with a view to party motives. Now, Sir, I
should have thought that the Noble Lord'apxperience might
have freed us from the charge of having of to him much

of „factions opposition. I think the .Noble Lord might have
called to his mind some occasion on which, if a factious op-
position had been offered to him his position as a Minister
would have been infinitely less safe.—(Loud cheering.) But
the Noble Lord before he preferred that charge of faction
against those who support this resolution might just have
borne in mind the question of Privilege—(Cheers)—the
question of the Union of the Canadas—(Loud cheers)—or
the question of the Poor- laws.—(Loud cheering). And the
Noble Lord might have had the justice to have given his
opponents credit for not having been desirous against their
conscientious convictions, of embarrassing his course on public
questions, when embarrassment would have been the result.
—( Hear.) But a factious course ? J, who have taken precisely
the same course which I took last year.--(Cheers.) I, who
when the Hon. Member for Wigan, proposed to me to intro-
duce sugar, the produce of slave labour recorded, by my vote,
my opposition to that motion. I now stand here advocating
the same principles, putting on record precisely the same
opinions, when I say that I am not willing to admit slave-
grown sugar after the sacrifices the country has made. And
yet I am charged by the Noble Lord with faction. Why,
Sir, the only prima facie suspicion of faction attaching to my
course is, that it was the course taken by the Noble, Lord
last year.—(Much cheering.) Really I don't see any assign-
able ground for it. I guilty of faction for adhering to my
opinions of last year ! Really I have had some experience of
Parliamentary assurance—(A laugh)—and I can conceive
that if 1 had embodied the Corn-laws, and the sugar duties,
and the timber duties in one measure, and that I had said
" Don't discuss these question separately, but try to get as
many as you can to vote against sugar, by mixing up
with it timber and corn," then I might have ken
charged with faction.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) But for
the Noble Lord, under the present circumstances, to accuse me
of faction is one of the most extraordinary charges that was
ever made. When I referred to the Right Lion. Gentleman's
proposition, did I use a word of taunt=did I not perfectly ac-
knowledge that if the interests of the- country required it,
the Right lion. Gentleman was quite justified in taking a dif-
ferent course. That accusation I beg most distinctly to repel.
—( Hear, hear.) One of the charges of factious motives was
rounded on the allegation that. we had embodiod no great and
irrevocable principles in our opposition. Sir, we have had ex-
perience enough in these principles —( Loud cheering:') The
Noble. Lord might, perhaps, say .‘ Why don't you imitate our
more illustrious example. Why do you not move a resolution
that. no arrangement on this subject ever can be satisfactory."
( Vehement and long continued cheering.) Why, with the
momorable example before us of the policy of the Noble Lord
in reconsidering his resolutions—that the tear of the possibility of
our being obliged, not to recant, for that they would not do, but to
leave on- the journals of the House that standing opprobrium to
all Government—(Loud cheering, in which the remainder of
the sentence was lost). That may perhaps be a sufficient ex-
cuse to all the successors of the Noble Lord to view with ap-
prehension that example; but see what an absurdity you commit.
the Noble Lord may say that we leave to ourselves a loophole
to escape, and Who'could predict that we might not be guilty of
the unparalelled iniquity, that next year we may be compelled
to introduce propositions of a similar character? If we are,
shall we be worse than the Noble Lord ?—(Cheers. ) Leaving
a loophole ! Why what loophole have you I—( Cheers.)
The charge you bring against me is faction. You, who op-
posed these resolutions last year, arc you so uncharitable
as to think men can be actuated only by factious
motives, who leave to themselves the opportunity
at last of taking another course ?—( Cheers from the Ministe-
rill benches.) Now, do not mistake—do not believe that I
move this resolution with forethought of being! able, 'next
year, under similar eircuripaances, of deviating from the course
I now take. 1 will be frank.—(Loral cheers and counter
cheers.) Ido say that my opinion is that this experiment
should be fairly made, and that you ought to encourage the
introduction of free sugar and the attempt. to supply the
market of the United Kingdom. And if, perhaps, if 1 take
the course I state, it is not that I contemplate if I succeed to
office,. following your example, and having opposed your prop-
position this year, coming down next year and proposing it.—
( Cheers.) The principle for which I contend is that East
India sugar, ruin, and the produce of all our colonies, ought
to be placed on the same footing. It is my confident
hope and expectation that the produce of our own colonies
will afford a sufficient supply of sugar ; and if this should
prove true, since the necessary supply can be promei, 1, for
one, am prepared to contend for the existing protection, so
long as the West India colonies remain in a state analagous to
the present.--(,-Icar, hear.) As I said before, I would not
have said a word to Hon. Gentlemen with respect to their
having taken an opposite course ; hut when I am charged with
faction I have a right to refer to it. And what was the lan-
guage held on the motion of the Hon. Member for Wigan,
which was resisted by her Majesty's Government ? We were
told that the price of sugar was high to an unparalleled degree,
that the stock was short and scanty to a degree never equalled,
and that we ought to introduce a supply from the Bra-
zils. But you, the PresiJent of the Board of
Trade, met the argument respecting the introduc-
tion of cotton, tobacco, and sugar, the produce of slave
labour, and -said that there was a broad distinction between
sugar', and tobacco, and cotton. Then, when lion. Gentlemen
on this side attempt to show that distinction, is i not too much