The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-18 00:00:00

THE SUN,' 1_ ON D(rsT. TUESDAY, MAY (18. t

IMPERIAL. PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF LORDS, May 17.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool-
sack shortly after Five o'Clock.
The Exchequer Bills Bill was read a third tithe and
passed. -
The Bank Copartnership Bill was read a third time.
and passed.
The. Duke of_DEVONSHIRE presented a petiti6n
from. the Mayor anal Corporation of Derby, in favour of
the proposed alteration of the sugar, timber, and• corn
duties.
The Earl of MOUNTCASHEL presented a petition
:franythe Colonial Association against the proposed alter-
.ation of -the Tiniber 'Duties.
Lord WILLOUGHBY D'ERESBY presented a pe-
tition from Lincolnshire against alteration of the Corn-
laws.
The Marquis of WESTMINSTER presented a peti-
tion -Signed by the Mayor, and 750 of the inhabitants of
'a town in Cheshire, of which we did not catch the name,
in favour of the alteration. He cordially supported the

_
Lewd RERESDALE presented a petition from Chel-
sea, for the abolition of the Metropolitan Bridge Tolls.
The Marquis of EXETER presented a number of
pe-
titions against the alteration of the Corn-laws.
The Duke of RUTLAND presented similar petitions
from places in the counties of Leicester and Rutland.
Ran FITZ WILLIAM was desirous of speak-
ing upon the petitions presented by the Noble Duke,
because no man could approach the -House with greater
claims on their attention, not merely on account of his
high station and ample possessions, but on account also
of the close connexion which he undeviatingly main-
tained with those who lied under him, and on acconnt
of his active and unbounded benevolence.-(Cheers.)
One paragraph in the petitions just presented struck him
as particularly requiring attention, as it was directly
opposite to the prayer of a petition presented from the.
same parties only five years ago, when the same, land-
owners and farmers came to the House saying they were
all ruined, and praying their Lordships to do something
for them. They then stated that the Corn-laws were in-
effective, and required alteration, and now they prayed
as vehemently that there should be no alteration.
In fact there was, no class of the community but com-
plained of those laWs at some time or other—in 1835 and
1836 the farmers complained of them—in 1840 and 1841
the merchants cried out against them. That ought to con-
vince their Lordships that the system was a bad one.
He requested them to look at the state of the commerce of
the country. The export of finished manufactures had
greatly diminished, whilst that of unfinished and imper-
fect gods had increased. The manufactures of the Con-

tinental nations were improving as ours declined, and
he cautioned their Lordships not to pass or to
keep 112 any laws which had a tendency to give
those manufitctures a further impulse.—(Hear.) It
was important to remember that the German League
was about to expire, whether that combination was entered
into the .nigh hostility to England, or, as he rather believed,
for the purpose of getting rid of the international duties on
Germaly. They should also look to the depressed state
of the manufacturing population of this country, and if
they did not think the Corn-laws were the cause of the
distress, they ought at all events to inquire into the
cause. A paper had been put into his hand this morn-
ing, to show that the same quantity of provisions which
a certain body of workmen could purchase in 1835 for
12,000/. would now cost 18,0001. It was a mistake
to suppose that wages would rise in this ratio of fifty
per cent. Nothing could be more erroneous than to sup-
pose that wages rose in proportion to the increase in the
price of provisions. The.contrary was the fact, on the
very case to which he referred—for, in 1835, the wages
of these persons were higher than in 1840.—(Hear.)
Lord KENYON inquired, did he mean to apply that
doctrine to agricultural districts ?_

Earl FIT2WILLIAAI said he meant to apply it

Lord kENYON--Then it is not true ; in the districts
with which I am acquainted, the wages have risen in
proportion to the price of food.

Earl FITZ WILLIAM was aware that in some
places there had been an advance of wages. But that
was confined to agricultural labourers, and it was not
universally the case with them. The first abet which
the rise in the price of food occasioned, was to
injure the condition and the comforts of all classes
of labourers, but especially of the manufacturers.
The next effect was, to injure trade and manufactures
generally ; • and, in fact, there had been a continual
deterioration •of the. -•• state of this country for years
past. It was worse last year than the year before,
and worse this year than last. In the prices of our ma-
nufactures there had not been an increase concurrently
with the scarcity of food—on the contrary, there
had been a deeline.—(Hear, hear.) In our exports
(except to the colonies, of which we had a monopoly)
there had been a decrease as he had said, especially of
finished goods ; for instance, though there had been
no decrease in the export of yarn, there had been in the
export of cloth. The Noble Earl concluded by presenting
a petition from Manchester in favour of the alteration of
the Import Duties on Corn, Timber, and Sugar.
The Earl of RIPON denied that the argument which
the Noble Earl attempted to draw from the sup-
posed decrease of our exports applied to those
countries (Russia, Germany, Holland, and Belgium).
which would be effected by any reduction of our
Corn-laws. Besides, the Noble Earl was not correct in
stating that there had been a gradual decrease in the
value of our exports of late years. By returns which
were laid on the table in 1839, and which had since been
carried down to the close of last year, it appeared that
the official value of our exports was, in

1829 £61,152,000
1830
1831
1832
1833
1834
1835
1836
1837
1838
1839
1840
—(Much cheering.) It was true that in these years there
was some fluctuation, but, looking at the whole period,
there was, in fact, a gradual increase instead of diminu-
tion.—(Cheers.) He had also returns of the declared
value, which was somewhat different in the amount, but
the result was the same, that is, they showed a gradual
increase. The returns relating to the exports to Russia,
Germany, Hungary-, and Belgium showed the same in-
crease as the general exports in the same years. They
were as follows in

1829 £13,651,000
1830
1831
1832
1833
1834
1835
1836
1837
1838
1839
—(Cheers.) He knew that the Noble Earl would say
that although the statement might be true that the
amount had been increased, yet the profits had di-
minished, because the goods exported were for the most
part unfinished. But that was not the case, especially as
regarded the exports to the countries to which he had re-
ferred. The decrease in the perfectly manufactured articles
was very small, while the increase on both was enormous.
He could not see what possible injury could be done to the
spinner of wool by any decrease in the exportation
of manufactured articles. Take aseries of periods, each
containing four years. In the first the export amounted
to 2,191,0001. ; in the second four years it was 2,399,000/.
in the third period it was 2,011,000/. ; the middle period
was much the largest ; but there was this singular cir-
cumstance attending it—that period comprised the years
1833, 1834, 1835, and 1836. Now these four years com-
prised the period when corn was at the lowest price, and
when consequently the duty was highest.—(Cheers.)
During that period the export of cotton manufactured
goods was the greatest.—(Cheers.) He did not want to
draw any unreasonable inferences from the fact, but he
thought it was enough to make their Lordships pause
befi,re giving implicit credence to the statements of the
Noble Earl.—(Hear, hear.) As far as he was indivi-
dually concerned, he had never supported any Corn Bill
whatever, except upon the most sincere conviction that
it was a necessary evil, in order to prevent this country
from being dependent for its subsistence upon foreign coun-
tries. He could bear his testimony to the faithfulness of the
picture drawn by the Noble Earl of the Noble Duke
(Rutland), whose virtue'and: benevolence were the admi-
ration of all who knew him. He hoped the same feelings
would animate him in the management of that great pro-
perty which it had pleased God to bless him, and how-
ever inferior others might be to him in property, rank,
and public estimation, he hoped they might all put in a
claim to be influenced in the matter not by the wretched
and miserable and selfish objects which are sometimes
ascribed to them, but by an anxiety to do their duty to
those who looked up to them for support.
The Duke of Rli TLAND said that although he dif-
fered on many points of national policy from the Noble
Earl opposite, he always had, always would attribute to
him as the motives by which his pnblic conduct had been
swayed, those of pure patriotism and public benevolence.
He could not help thinking that if they legislated for
ages, they could not enact anything better than a duty
which would be in the inverse ratio of the price—that
was to say, that when the price was high the duty should
decrease, and when it was low the duty should be such
as would promote the interests both of the home-grower
and the consumer. In the district in which he resided
the farmers, greatly to their credit, and also to those
beneath them, without any application, raised the wages
of the labourers from 12s. to 14s. and 155. a week; That
rate continued until November, when he (the Duke of
Rutland) reduced his men from 14s. to 12s. a week. But
he had the gratification to say, that many of the farmers
around him continued to pay their men from 12s. to 15s.
a week. Ile could state that the labourers generally
' would infinitely prefer having the corn at a remune-
rating price to their employers, than to have wages low,
and corn at a price which would not remunerate them.
He had adduced the opinion of a body of labourers on
the subject, and he was not afraid that their Lordships
would slight the petition of the humblest classes of her
Majesty's subjects upon any question of national policy,
especially on so important a question as the Corn-laws.
The Earl of STRADBROKE said, with reference to
the observation of. the Noble Earl (Ripon), that in
1831-5 the price of labour in the east of England was
Bs. per week ; but when corn rose, wages rose also to
12s. a week, at which they now stood.
Fad FITZWILLIAM said, that he conceived the
fact of the rise of wages, as stated by the Noble Earl,
to result very much from the operation of the Poor-laws.
He was about to show to the Noble Earl (Ripon) that
they both perfectly agreed on this point. The Noble
Earl had read a table, by which it appeared that our
exports of half-manufactured goods had much increased,

of which he (Earl Fitzwilliam) had no doubt ; but that
table also showed that the export of complete manufac-
tured goods had diminished, and this appeared to him
(Earl Fitzwilliam) to be one of the most alarming symp-
toms of the state of our manufactures--(Hear, hear}—
our exports being that on which the least amount of
labour was expended. He quite agreed with the Noble
Duke that their Lordship's' ear would be opened to the
petitions of the humblest classes of the community, but
there were humble classes in the manufacturing as well
as the agricultural districts—(Hear, hear)—and all he
desired of their Lordships was, that they would open
their ears as much to the manufacturing as to those of
the agricultural poor, and see whether there were any
grounds of complaint against these laws. He gave the
Noble Earl full credit that his sole object was to make
the country independent of foreign countries for supply,
but if this were the object of these laws, all he could
say was, that they had not been fortunate in their re-
sult. The only question for their consideration, was the
mode and circumstances under which they could obtain
the • supply. That they must, have a supply there could
be no doubt.
The Duke of WELLINGTON, who was very indis-
tinctly heard, said that from the year 1829 to the year
1841 the official value of exports of British and Irish
produce and manufacture produced an increase from
56,217,000/. to 102,715,11701., and the declared value

from 10,148,3051. to 41,468,400/. The Noble Duke,
after quoting a table of the exports of cotton and cotton
manufactures, which was quite inaudible in the gallery,
said that these papers showed that the manufactures and
commerce of the country could not be considered as in a
very unprosperous state, either in reference to.
quantity or value. The prosperity of manufactures
must depend on the • general prosperity. The
Corn-laws were supported, not with a view to the ad-
vantage of any particular interest or class of men, but
with a view to render the whole country independent of
foreign nations in respect to its,supply of food. He be-
lieved that all parties would best consult their interests
in the attainment of this object.—(Hear.) Undoubtedly
it was impossible for the agricultural interest to ftourish
without their Lordships, and other great proprietors,
deriving some advantage from it ; but he would give
their Lordships credit for higher motives—they supported
the law for the sake of the people themselves.
The Earl of RADNOR denied that the present Corn-
law had answered its purpose, for during the 11. years
previous to 1839 we had imported more corn than in any.
11 years before ; it had, therefore, not rendered us in-
dependent of foreign countries for our supply
of food.—(Hear.) The Noble Duke (Rutland)
had said that the price of wages had risen with the price
of corn, but that had not been the case in the
South : indeed wages did not at all depend upon the
price of corn, but upon the supply and demand for corn.
The fact was, as had been stated by his Noble Friend,
that the export of finished goods had diminished in pro-
portion to the unfinished. In 1829 the proportion w•as
61,000/. of perfect goods to 39,0001. of unfinished. In
1839 the proportion was exactly the reverse. It was
68,000/. imperfect to 32,000/. of perfect. This ,was
great injury to the operative, who lost the employment
which would be derived from finishing, and that too the
most valuable part of the employment. The' Noble
Earl then read letters from Stockton and Ashton, and
other manufacturing towns, to show the extreme distress
that prevailed in those towns from want of employment,
and the high price of provisions. In Ashton the mills
were working only four days a week, and then on short
time. The Noble Earl then reverted to his former statement
that the exports of wheat from Ireland and Scotland had
diminished. He had again examined the official re-
turns, and he found that what he had said was Correct,
although he regretted that he should have given offence
by that statement to Noble Lords connected with those
parts of the United Kingdom.

The Earl of HADDINGTON and the Earl of WEST-
MEATH protested that they had not taken offence at the
Noble Earl's statement. . .

The Duke of WELLINGTON said that the export of
manufactures had increased as 100 to 1 since the enact-
ment of the present Corn-laws, and the declared value
had been more than double.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord ASHBURTON could not deny that distress ex-
isted in the manufacturing districts, but he was convinced

that the measure contended for by the Noble Earl opposite
(Fitzwilliam) would greatly aggravate rather than remedy
it. The greatness of the manufactures had grown up
with the Corn-laws. It had run up with occasional
checks, and with alternations of prosperity and distress,
but still it had run up since the enactment of those very
Corn-laws, and no country in the world ever presented
such an accumulation of wealth as this during the last
twenty-five years. Of the sixty millions sterling that had
been invested in railway enterprises, at least fifty mil-
lions came from the manufacturing towns.-L-(Hear,
hear.) Possessing such wealth, notwithstanding the oc-
casional fluctuations inseparable from trade, they ought
not to seek to depreciate other interests and to destroy
their own home market.—(Cheers.) The Noble Lord
complained of the agitation which had been got up on
this subject for party and factious purposes, fir which
all the great interests of the country had been thrown
into a most injurious state of suspense.—(Hear, hear.)
Earl HARDWICKE said the Government now pro-
posed to raise more revenue from bread than had ever
been done before. That was the way they proposed to
relieve the manufacturer.

Earl FITZ WILLIAM said it was a way in which the
manufacturer would be pleased to be relieved.

Lord ASHBURTON said the Government had been
agitating the country from one end to the other through
the officers of the Board of Trade, who had given the
most exaggerated accounts before the Committee of the
other House—such accounts as could not have stood for
a moment before any one holding different opinions, or
had they been cross-questioned.
The Earl of CLARENDON begged to be allowed to
give an unqualified denial to the assertion that the Go-
vernment had been agitating throughout the country
upon this question. The country generally took a very
different view of the Report of the Committee on Im-
port Duties from what the Noble Lord did. In his
opinion it was the most important document ever put
forth by any Committee. It had been translated into
almost every language, and was deeply studied on the
Continent. No less than 46,000 copies of it had been
sold to parties who paid for them—of course they wanted
them, or they would not have parted with their money.
—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord might call it
absurd, shallow, and empirical, but the country
were of a different opinion—the Report was the
fair result of the evidence laid before the Committee.;
however, there was nothing in the Report half so valu-
able as the former speeches of the Noble Lord.—(Hear.)
In the year 1815 the Noble Lord said the duty .on corn
cost the country eighteen millions and a half and not for
revenue, but that was the sum put into the pockets of
the landlords ; and calculating up to the present period,
by the showing of the Noble Lord himself, the country
had paid between three hundred and four hundied mil-
lions. Was there anything more extravagant than that
in the evidence given before the Committee ? .
The Earl of WICKLOW blamed the Government for
giving up their own convictions for the mere purposes of
party.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH said the witnesses before
the Committee were not cross-examined. Had any one
been there holding contrary opinions the result would,
undoubtedly, have been very different.
The Earl of RADNOR said the Committee was fairly
constituted, and consisted of half from one side and half
from the other side of the House. If any Hon Member
had entertained an opinion of the evidence such as the
Noble Lord, it was his duty to have attended and sifted
the matter.

The Marquis of NORMANBY denied that any change
had been made in the intentions of the Government by
recent events. Every part of their plan had been de-
cided upon long before the Easter recess.
Earl FITZWILLIAM presented a petition from the
Corporation of Manchester and numerous other places,
prayinc, for the repeal of the Corn-laws ; and one from
Peterborough, praying for a revision of the Import
Duties.

The Marquis of NORMANBY laid on the table the
Sixth Report of the Commissioners on Criminal Law,
and the Ninth Report of the Board of Public Works in
Ireland.

The Earl of RADNOR presented petitions, praying for
the abolition of Church• rates. from several places.—
Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 17.

The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual time.
The Leverington Inclosure Bill was read a third time,
and passed, on the motion of Mr. YORKE.

Sir C. GREY presented a petition from North Shields
against the Newcastle-upon-Tyne Improvement Bill.
The South Metropolitan Gas Bill was read a second
time, and ordered to be committed.

LOUGH FOYLE DRAINAGE BILL.
Sir M. WOOD moved the second reading of the Lough
Foyle Drtiiname Bill.
Captairi JONES opposed the second reading of the
Bill, on the ground that there was already a Bill before
the House which would answer every purpose. contem-
plated by the present measure.
Sir M. WOOD defended the Bill. He was surprised
at the Hon. Member's opposing the measure, as it was
his own proposition.
Mr. B. WOOD felt bound, in justice to the Hon.
Member opposite (Captain Jones) to state that there had
been one petition presented against the measure.
Colonel CONOLLY asserted that the Bill now be-
fore the House was not the Bill that had been intro-
duced by his Hon. Friend (Captain Jones). He had been
instructed by his constituents to oppose the measure, on
the ground that it would release the original parties from
their engagements, and would substitute a stock jobbing
arrangement that would not be satisfactory to them.
After a short conversation,
Sir M. WOOD proposed to withdraw the motion for
the second reading, but this was resisted.
Strangers were ordered, to withdraw, and the House
divided, when there appeared—
For the second reading .. . ................... 58
Against it ............... ..................... 78
Majority against the 8i11............ —2O
On our return to the gallery we found
Mr. BRISCOE on his legs. He' assured the House
that he had no knowledge whatever of "the irregUlarity
that had taken place connected with the measure. He
hoped the House would allow a new Bill to be introdUced
that day week.
Colonel
°le
Ireland to endeavour to throw out the Bill. He had no
doubt whatever that fraud had been committed ; and
OHNeOLhLadY
been w-ould
requested objee
by all parties in
t to any proposition •
of the kind.l C
although he did not impute a knowledge of that fraud to
any Hon. Member of that HouSe,it Was their duty to
ascertain, if possible, where it originated.
On the motion of Mr. KEMBLE; the amendments to
the Hawkhurst Junction .Road Bill were considered, and.
the Report received.
. On the motion of Sir. T. FREMANTLE, the. Great
Horwood Inclosure Bill was read :a third time and
passed.

CHURCH EXTENSION.
Sir R. INGLIS postponed his motion with respect
to Church Extension till after Whitsuntide.
Mr. Sergeant TALFOURD gave notice that he
should, in Committee on the Poor-law Bill, move certain
clauses With 'respect to medical assistance.
The Birmingham and Hayley-road Bill was read a
third time and passed.
SUGAR DUTIES.
Lord J. RUSSELL having moved the Order of the
Day for renewing the adjourned debate,
Mr. WYNNE expressed a hope that, considering that
was the -,:seventh night the question had been discussed,
the Noble Lord would allow them to proceed to a divi-
sion.—(Great laughter.) He felt that the understand-
ing which he asked for was not an unusual one, that the
debate should not be again adjourned, but that they shou7d
be allowed to proceed to a division. If the Hon. Memb( r
for Salford, who took such great care of their health,
would for that night refrain from moving the adjourn-
ment, and allow them to proceed to a division, it would
greatly accommodate the House, and tend to the dispatch
of public business.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL could assure the Right
Hon. Gentleman that he had no wish to protract the de-
bate unnecessarily ; but while there were Hon. Members in
the House who represented constituencies deeply inte-
rested in the question—(Lond cries of " Hear, hear ")
he should take no steps to prevent them expressing their
opinions on the subject.
Mr. BROTHER .120 N said that if it was the wish of
the House to come to a division, he certainly should
not interpose, but there were more than a dozen Gentle-
men on his side of the House who were anxious to speak
on the subject.—(Cries of " Oh, oh.")
Mr. HUME presented a petition from the inhabitants
of King's-Lynn approving . of the Ministerial measure
for the reduction of the duties on corn, sugar, and timber
—also petitions from 50 agriculturists of Barton and
Humber, praying that all taxes on food might be removed ;
from 400 inhabitants of Bathgate, for the revoval
of all restrictions on trade ; and from 285 inhabitants
Of a parish in Forfarshire, for a total repeal of
the Corn-laws, and an equalization of the import duties.
I'he Hon. Gentleman also presented several petitions
from Uxbridge, Denham, Killingdon, Rickmansworth,
and other places in Middlesex, generally to the same
affect. . • _
Mr. WILBRAHAM presented a petition from Lanca-
shire, praying the House to institute an inquiry into the
best mode of protecting the landed interest.
Mr. HODGSON presented several petitions from
Kent against any alteration in the Corn-laws.
Mr. BROTHERTON presented a petition signed by
1%255 inhabitants of Salford, praying for a repeal of
the Corn-laws.
Air. QUOTE presented petitions from the metro-
polis to the same effect, and a petition from the City
jf London, agreed to at a public meeting, praying for a
mitigation of the import duties, and the adoption of the
commercial measures of the Ministry.
Mr. MACAULAY presented a petition from Edin,
burgh, in favour of the commercial measures of the
Government. •

Mr. WARD presented several petitions from the trades
of Sheffield to the same effect.

Sir J. C. HOBHOUSE presented petitions from Brad-
ford, and other places, praying for a repeal of the Corn-
laws. and a revision of the import duties.
Mr. Alderman HUMPHERY presented a petition
from the parish of St. Saviour's, in Southwark, to the
same effect.
Mr. LANGDALE presented a petition from a place
i i the West Riding of Yorkshire, with a similar prayer.
Lord POWERSCOURT presented a petition from the
Corporation of Bath (as we understood) in favour of the
commercial policy of the Government.—(" Hear, hear,"
on the Ministerial benches.) The Noble Lord begged
leave to add, that out of a Corporation of fifty-six, there
were but twenty-six present when the petition was
agreed to.
Mr. HEATHCOTE presented a petition against any
alteration in the Corn-laws.

Sir 11. FLEETWOOD presented a petition signed by
1,500 inhabitants of Preston, which represented that there
were now upwards of 1,200 empty houses in that town,
and praying for a repeal of the Corn-laws. Also one
signed by 5,000 females in the same town, and with a

similar prayer.
Mr. B. WOOD presented a petition from a public
meeting held in the Town-hall of Southwark, praying
for a repeal of the Corn-laws.

Sir I]. FILMER presented a petition from Maidstone
and another pl-lee, against any alteration in the Corn-
laws.

Mr. BROADLEY presented a petition to the same
effect.

Mr. P. AINSWORTH presented a petition, signed by
15,000 inhabitants of Bolton, praying for a speedy abo-
lition of the Corn-laws.

Mr. INGHAM presented a petition from South
Shields against any alteration in the timber duties.
Sir DE LACY EVANS presented petitions from
various parishes in Westminster, from Bethnal-green,
from Whitechapel, from Hackney, from Saffron-hill,
from Shoreditch, and from various other parishes in the
county of Middlesex, in favour of the Ministerial pro-
Position, and praying for a repeal of the Corn-laws.
Colonel SALWEY presented apetition from Colnbrook
Dale signed by 570 persons, praying for the abolitiOn of
the-Corn-laws ; also a petition from Wenlock, stating that
the present deficient supply of food was a fruitful source•
of disease, and praying for a total repeal of the Corn-laws.
Mr. OSWALD presented a petition from Glasgow,
praying for a total repeal of the Corn-laws, and for a re-
vision of the Cuitoms.Duties.
Mr. DENNISTOUN presented thirty-nine petitions.
one of which was signed by 6,000 persons, praying for a
total repeal of- the Corn-laws, and a revision of the Im-
port Duties._

Sir B. HALL presented a petition from Marylebone,
praying for a total repeal of the Corn-laws.

- kr.iIIAINES pres-ented a petition from Leeds in fa-
vour of the Ministerial measure.

Mr. VILLIERS presented petitions from various
places in Lancashire, praying for a repeal of the Corn-
laws ; also a petition signed by 1,133 working men of
Lewes, repudiating the idea that wages rose with the
rise in the price of corn, stating that their wages had not
risen during the last three years—(Hear, hear)—and
praying for a total repeal of the Corn-laws.
Mr. M. PHILIPS presented petitions in favour of
the measures proposed by her Majesty's Ministers, from
several parts of Manchester.
Mr. Slaney presented similar petitions from Shrews-
bury ; General Johnson from Lincoln ; Mr. Thornely
from Tunstall ; Sir George Staunton from Portsmouth ;
and Mr. C. Buller from Stone.
ADJOURNED DEBATE.

On the Order of the Day, for resuming the Adjourned
Debate being read,
Sir C. GREY proceeded to address the House amid
considerable noise, which prevented the commencement
of his observations from reaching the gallery. The Hon.
Baronet was understood to say, that it appeared to him,
that on the present all-important question the proceed-
ings in which they were engaged did not place them in a
very advantageous position in the eyes of the people of the
United Kingdom, or in those of the world. These pro-
ceedings had a tendency in their consequences which were
not only inconvenient, but dangerous. On the 7th of
May the Order of the Day for the House resolving itself
into a Committee of Ways and Means had been moved.
That was a motion which he believed no one would
deny must be acceded to almost immediately, and
if the present Chancellor of the Exchequer were
to abandon his place, and any Gentleman on the
Opposition side of the House was to be placed in
that situation, that motion would be the very first
which would be brought forward. What, then, was the
ground upon which so necessary a question was
opposed ? What necessity was there for gentlemen
on the opposite side to take the course that they did ?
That motion stood on the papers of the House.
It was a motion which would be proposed even by the
Members of the Opposition themselves. 'Under the
circumstances of the case, the House had a right to
expect that the amendment of the Noble Lord
would propose some practical object, and some
measure equally important with that of the Go-
vernment. The amendment merely stated that the
House would not accede to any alteration of the
sugar duties, and that for two reasons. It was
alleged in the first place that the example we had
set in attempting the abolition of slaves had
not yet been brought forward by othertatiors,.and that
it would be improper, on our part, to recede from the
course we had taken ; and, -in the second place, it
was said that there. was now a sufficient supply of sugar
from our own colonies for the ensuingjyear. Now that
latter " assumption was flatly, plainly, and positively
contradicted by the five agents from the West India co-
lonies, who had signed a paper laid before the House on
Friday, remonstrating against the measure of the Govern-
ment. In the next place, he did not think that the
House would be justified, from the alleged encourage-
ment to the slave trade, to refuse the sugar of other
countries under the present exigencies of the State.
On these grounds he.clid not understand on what princi-
ple the amendment of the Noble Lord could be sup-
ported—(Hear, hear)—and he believed that the party on
the other side, whenever they attained power, would wish
that amendment as speedily as possible to be buried in
oblivion.—(Hear, hear.) The grounds upon which it
was supported were not adopted by many Gentlemen on
the other side. The Hon. Member for the University of
Oxford repudiated it ; he said he would not admit any
foreign sugar until slavery should be every where abo-
lished, while the Hon. Member for Antriin said that no-
thing could save the West Indians from ruin, but a pro,
hibiting duty. The Hon. Member for Beverley had ap-
peared there as the organ of the Directors of the East
India Company, and he must say that, recollecting how
recently they had reprobated the monopolizing spirit
of the West Indian body which opposed the Indies
being placed upon a commercial equality with themselves,
he thought it was not creditable to them, the moment
they had obtained the concessions they required, to turn
round and try to prevent foreign nations, not from being
with themselves, hut fi,oni reap-
ingplaced upon an equality
the advantage which might accrue from a removal of
absolute prohibition, so that they might enter the field
of competition. On that side of the House the amend.
ment would be supported by gentlemen dlt&ring from
the purposes of it on almost every other point, so that
the majority, if majority there were, would be composed
of the most heterogeneous materials. The Noble Lord
the Member for South Lancashire, and the lion,
her for Kilmarnock, agreed I
in principle With the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, and seemed to imagine that
they might perhaps be called on to support, ere long, a
somewhat similar proposition; while the Noble Lord the.
Member for South Lancashire Field anger W IP} eifieepr
tion to the general principle, Under these oiroumstanoes
he hoped the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tam-
worth
would, during the course of the debate, state ex-
nliei tly the principle with which the principle advocated
by the Chancellor of the Exchequer was to be met.
Before that took place, lie was gliNitons to site, fox the
satisfaction of his own constituency, the grounds on
which' he assented, heart and "sdul, to the financial men,
sures proposed by the Chancellor of the Zxcheluor•

, England had now been brought to a point at which she
must take the lead of all commercial enterprises in the
world ; and such a position was not to be occupied with-
out great deeds and great exertions. England had had
to do so ; she had had to put down. civil war in
Canada, and she had . hardly done that when she
had to take up arms in the Indies, and, since
then, she had been called upon, in China, to resent
. injuries and outrages which, if permitted, would render
it impossible for her to maintain . her commerce, Even
so recently as the last autumn she hid had to uphold.
the Turkish empire, Which wni,'aiTt.hitiltime almost tot-
tering to its fall. .The Chancellor .of the _Exchequer
found a deficit of two millions in the revenue, and pro-
posed a remedy with respect la which .gentlemen on
the opposite side of the House ' complained of being
takenl by surprise.—(Hear, heart) He (Sir Charles
Grey) could not see the reasonableness of such
a complaint. There were no grounds whatever for the
feigned surprise of those Gentlemen opposite, with re-
spect to this subject. He wished also to observe that
it was a fallacy to suppose that the consumer paid the
whole of the impart duty. He, believed that it would
be found that the duties impoSed upon the importation
of any. article were deducted eVentnally from the rent.
At first it might be paid by the consumer, but eventu-
ally the consumer lessened his consumption of the taxed
article, and substituted some untaxed article in its place,
and then the producer would go to his landlord, and say,
while this impost continues it is impossible that I can
pay the rent I have been in the habit of doing, and I
:nust have a reduction in my rent accordingly. He was
convinced that the principle was a sound one, and it
would become a matter of most important consideration
when they came to the question of the Corn-laws.
Here were three quarters of the world ready to give them
riches in abundance, and they were asked to give a cold
denial. He was surprised that many interests he could
mention had not requested Members of that House to ad-
vocate the cause with respect to the fund-holder. What he
would propose was to make the •whole world pay the in-
terest of that debt which he looked upon as little less
than a mortgage of the land-holder of the country. Par-
ties might pledge their property and their land, but they
could not pledge the'property which was procured by the
sweat of the labourer's brow. He was sorry to observe
the manner in which the measure proposed by her Ma-
jesty's Ministers had been met in that House, as he could
not but look with fear on the situation in which the
country would be placed if that measure was not
Adopted. They had been told that there would be a dis-
solution if the proposition was not carried ; but a disso-
lution could notitake place at the present moment in
consequence of the measures that must yet be carried.
With respect to the opposition to . the proposition he
confessed that he had no conception upon what grounds
it was based, because the other side could not come into
power, supposing they succeeded in defeating her Ma-
jesty's Ministers. But supposing the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman opposite should succeed to power to-morrow, it
would go forth to the world that no ground whatever
had been shown for the proposition of the Noble Lord
the Member for Liverpool.
Mr. SMIMIE supported the motion of the Noble
Lord, the Member for Liverpool. He admitted that the
measure that had been proposed by her Majesty's Go-
vernment would be a benefit to the .consumer and to the
foreign merchant.—(Hear, hear.) He thought, however,
that if the proposition was carried, the detriment which it
would cause to the national honour and to the colonies
would more than counterbalance any benefit that might
be derived by the consumer. _

Mr. AIN'SWORTH said that as allusion had been
made to the distress of the borough which he repre-
sented, he trusted the House would allow him to state
the reasons why he should support the proposition of
her Majesty's Government. The Noble Lord had rather
under than over-rated the distresS that existed in Bolton.
For his own part, he had never witnessed such scenes of
misery as had taken place there. The cause of that dis-
tress was to be attributed to the manner in which the fo-
reign trade of the country was crippled. He would not
now go into the question of slavery, because he thought
that question had been answered by the Noble Lord the
Member for Northumberland and the Right Hon. Baro-
net the Member for Devonport, but he must refer to the
trade with Brazil, as he thought the trade with that
country had been carried on in a most unfair manner.
He was sorry that his HOn. Friend, the Member for New-
ark, who was not now in the House, had asked such a
question as this : of what use would it he to the poor
weavers of Bolton, that sugar should be Is. 6d. per cwt.
cheaper ? His answer was, that it would be.of great use to
' them to have new: markets,.Tpened for, their labour.
(Hear, hear.) It. would' give the employment, for want
of which so much distress was suffered at this moment in
every manufacturing borough in the kingdom.—(Hear.)
It was the duty of every representative of those boroughs
to support her Majesty's Government in the wise and
liberal course which alone was calculated to relieve that
distress, and to extend our relations with foreign coun-
tries.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HODGES was sorry that the three questions of
sugar, corn, and coffee, had been brought forward toge-
ther, as it was not necessary that gentlemen who sup-
ported one should approve of all three. The sugar ques-
tion had been already. so ably argued,'that he would not
now allude to it. He was prepared tfr support the mea-
sure respecting the timber duties, but 1w thought that a
low duty on corn would be the same in effect as no duty
at all, and would ruin the assiietiltimal interest of this
country. It would have the effect. of transferring to the
shores of the Baltic the capital at present engaged in the
cultivation of the land in this country. He would op-
pose the preposition of her Majesty's Government.
Mr. TRIMER, who was for the most part inaudible
was understood to support the motion of Lord Sandon.
Mr. ROCHE complained of the uncertainty and
speculation which the present system of Corn-laws gave
rise to, the result of which was, that when there was a
scarcity of corn in that country, it was almost impossible
to procure it from abroad. He thought a fixed duty
would prevent the ruinous fluctuations which were so
frequently taking place in the price of that commodity.
Under the present system, no interest was safe for a
single moment. It appeared to him that the proposed
reduction of the duty on foreign sugar would, instead of
encouraging, tend materially to put an end to the abomi-
nations of slavery and the slave trade. He had the
greatest abhorrence of slavery, and that was one of
the strongest motives with him for supporting the
present proposition. He took it for granted, that
from the long opposition her Majesty's 'Government
had given to slavery, that they had well considered what
would be the operation of the present measure. He
thought very little of the consistency and humanity of
those Hon. Gentlemen who objected to the introduction
of foreign sugar while they gave the most liberal en-
couragement to slave-grown tobacco and cotton. It was
said that her Majesty's Government had staked their
political existence upon the present measures. In that
they. had acted wisely, for in his opinion they were cal-
culated to prove highly conducive to the development
of the resources of the country, to the development of
her commerce, and to the comforts of the people.—(Loud
cheers.)
Mr. TUFNELL said the Noble Lord opposite
could only count upon the support of the agriculturists
on his (Mr. Tuffnell's) side of the House, on the prin-
ciple that in resisting the attack upon one monopoly,
they were supporting that in which they were peculi-
arly interested. He should'support the proposition of
her Majesty's Government.
Mr. G. H. CAVENDISH said the question before the
House was whether they were to deprive the agricultural
interests of the protection they had for so long a period
enjoyed. In voting against the amendment of the Noble
Lord the Member for Liverpool, and for going into
Committee upon the propositions brought forward by the
Noble Lord at the head of the Government, he did not
consider himself as at all pledged to vote for this or that
fixed duty. That was not the time to enter into details,
and it was a question with him whether the proposed re-
duction in the corn duties should not be spread over a
certain number of years. No one was more averse to
great and sudden changes than himself, but he could nut
look at the great, deficiency in the revenue, without giv-
ing his support to measures which he thought were cat.
ciliated to meet that deficiency without the imposition of
additional' taxes, and thereby giving a freer and wider
scope to the industry and resources of the people.
Captain MATHEW said that he was a member of
the WeSl Indian body, and however prejudicial to The
interests of that body the abolition of the Sitlye system
was, he had notwithstanding voted for that mettsure be-
cause of its consonance with the cause of humanity. A
great revolution in the afFairs of' the West Indian planters
must necessarily he the result of that measure, to IN:Lieit
was to be added the effect of 'two bad seasons, gad it was
at such a period the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) chose
to bring forward a measure the upshot of which must be
ruinous to the planters. He knew not whether the
House, but he was sure that the country, was stisfied
(with the resolution of the Noble- Lord, (Sandon). He
was convinced that the natural ih.ubsy. between the East
cif sugar to this t6untry withOO Any
and the West Indies would suifielent to furnish an
tgatiofinz:oarndi
afomreeiagstui
measure
adequate supply
Pb
rain. Ministers
suchie (Ltriotemp.4tl4iseiiii7,
which was
calculated to rivet the chairs of he was i
IN ink!
at
to think that th© abolition of th "t 4
stem had ' been
taken up for merely •
partizan purposes, Mr. ! Boyle
Roach, a celebrated .Irish Member,who N vas probably
heard of by many Hon. Cused
on. „Teat emen, to say, that
the only wy to avoid danger
was to meet it • plump.
The &tap ord (Lord John Russell) seemed to adopt
that maxim, and charged Hon. Gentlemen on that (the
Conservative) side of the House, with factiOuS and party
purposes in the course they thought fit to itd;opt' on the
present occasion. The Noble Lord's nrssaments—that
respecting cheap sugar, and that referring to the de, ,
ficit in the revenue—were very plausible, The
Noble Lord says, we entered office with 0: surplus in
the revenue, we leave it with a deficit—we dare you to
succeed us. What he would ask, had produced thai
deficit ? When Goverment introduced the P.oo=oftive
scheme, they were warned of its uselessness, and of the
difficulties so which it would bring tilers, yet they
olsted, and the present deficit was the result. At a late
general meeting of the Colonial Society, of which he
(Captain Mathew) was a member, and to which the
Master of the Ordnance had the other night referral,
there was but one opinion among the gentlenieg present,
who were of all political parties, as to ths course now
adopted by Government, and tho opinion was, that the
British colonies were now selected as a sacrifice to
make up tin Opticit in the revenue, beefing) they were
unrepresented in that House—because X
had no votes
to give at the hustings. He felt confident that the wen.
Slire would be discartled la a large nisjority, and to the
disgrace of having trough forward
sucha measure the
CictVellitnent would add the disgrace
of having as
in it.
Sir BENJAMIN HALL felt that it was quite impol,
sible at that advanced stage of the debate, 0. wayiupice
any new argument calculated to arrest the attention of
the House. He was not one a iliose who thought that
Hon. Gentlemen oppoiffe were not at libert—
to stp.Pilss, the plan of - Government Noll"N't
siatina the course they meant "
pursue
themselves. They had not answered t'ae,question`
them as to what that conis4 vale& be, and h put to
e vinced the reeon-
Mit WAS because the only' alts, tix alt -
-lttke fur