The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-13 00:00:00

relief. To that he would answer that the lines which he had
in view would pass through the mi.ist of the dis-
turbed districts—principally the south and western dis-
tricts of Ireland. Wheth r these railways passed
through the best or the worst parts of Ireland, they
would, he was sure, do great good to the people of that
country generally. With regard to the measures of the Go-
vernrnen, the did not believe they would meet the distress, or
secure the ends riesireus of being secured. The Bill that
offered facilities to the cultivation of laud was a measure
founded on a generous and praiseworthy. principle, but he did
not think it would be largely takers advantage of. It would
not take up to any great extent the surplus population of Ire-
land, as a great portion of the landed preprii tors were small
holders, and they would not be in a position to take advan-
tage of the provisions of the Bill. Whet was wanted was a
plan that would largely employ the surplus labouring popula-
tion, and that was the reason why he supported it.—(Hear,
hear.) They must have great public works, and none were
of such a beneficial character as railways.—( Hear, herr.) The
objections which had been urged against the works done
under the Labour Act of last session did riot apply to those
novr proposed to be made, as railways, he was persuaded,
would ultimately become most profitable speculations.
With regard to the Irish landlord', he maintained
that they had been much misrepresented.—( Hear, hear.)
They had in a great number of instances done all that was in
their power, and did not justify the attacks which many Hon.
Alembers had made upon them. He had supported the mea•
sures proposed some years 350 by a former Government
brought in by the late Chief Cornmissiorser of Woods and
Forelts, and he was persuaded that had that plan been carried
into effect, the present evils which had overtaken Ireland would
have in a great measure been mitigated. The calamity was
one that no human foresight could have avoided ; still had the
measure of 1839, fur carrying out railways been tffected,
Ireland would not present such a sail spectacle as it did now.—
(liver, hear.) The Hon. Member for Montrose (Mr. Hume )
had expressed great alarm at the measure of the Noble Lord,
the Member for Lynn, and had expressed his intention to
°PPose it. It seemed that he had greatly changed since he
'Poke on the Railway Bill of Lord Morpeth, in 1839.--
( Hear.) He then was strong in lavour of intredueing
railways in Ireland, as a means of employing the people
and laying the foundation of the permanent prosperity of the
country. How was it that the Hon. Member had changed
hi' opinion ? Was it that he was then Member for the city
°,l. Kilkenny ?—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear ") Such hail been
the opinion of that Hon. Member. Whatever view might exist
as to some lines of railway in Ireland, there could be no doubt
that a great line from Dublin to Cork would he a most suc-
cessful undertaking, and instead of taking five er six years upon
Making it, if they constructed it in one or two years, the
greatest national benefits would accrue. It would be the nseens
of making Cork the great entrepot of the British empire,. Ac-
cording to the authority of one of the best statistical works
•ter published on Ireland, that by Sir Robert Kane, the west
toast of Ireland was eminently adapted for the accom-
modation of the commerce of Europe and America, and railways
would be the grand means of giving the necessary facilities.
Then he went on to say that the extension of railway and steam
enterprise would soon remedy these evils, and extend to a great
degree the Irish fisheries. But it was said, "Oh, these things
are to result from the hard-earned wages of the English
people." He believed there existed no greater fallacy than this.
The Noble Lord proceeded to quote from documents the
amounts collected from the Irish revenue, and the sums ex-
pended in improvements, and he alleged that a surplus was
transmitted to this country. The completion of good roads had.
in a great measure, done away with illicit distillation, and what
might not then be expected from the construction of railways?
The construction of these lines would be the opening of untold
w alth, and then England would not merely be repaid by the
prayers of the Irish labourer, to cc horn she had given the means
of providing food for his famishing children, hut she would also
be repaid by an increased revenue ; and if that day came, as
come it might, when the allurements of free trade might carry
them too far, until they found the foreign markets shut against
them, they would then find in Ireland a market superior to
North or South America, and the Government seed which they
might at this time sow, would spring up into a goodly harvest
of prosperity, arid, what was even of greater importance, happi-
ness and peace.
Mr. CHAPLIN (the new Member for Salisbury) said that
he would not have presumed to address the House so very soon
after having become one of its Members, were it nut that the
importance of the subject compelled him, and that he knew
the indulgence or the House would be accorded to him.—
(Hear, hear.) Ile was struck with the able and very lucid
manner in which the Noble Lord who introduced tl- is measure
had stated it to the House, and he ( Mr. Chaplin) was 01
Opinion that it beat the measures of the Government fairly out
of comparison. He could not help noticing the remarkable
accuracy of his details, aed he should say that they were in-
controver ibe. He fully believed that those statements were
drawn within bounds ; he felt that, from the experience he
had had, these railways were sure of success, both in
their produce and in the security of the capital.
That was more than he thought could be said in
reference to the plans of the Government, because they
were uncertain in produce, and much more so in the security
of the e :fetal. They had heard much of commissions. In
the commission with which Sir Henry Parnell was connected,
for the improvement of the road between London and Holy- •
head, a vast sum of money was lost, because a railway was at
the same time being made in a parallel direction. They were
actually improving the road between Fowcesttr, Daventry, and
Birmingham, while the railway was making, and therefore all
the money was lost. The railways which were referred to by
the Noble Lord, tinder any circumstances, would be eventually
made in Ireland, and the roads and works which Government were
furthering would involve a greater loss. He had 'ravelled
thus far very pleasantly with the Noble Lord, but he re-
gretted that here he must leave him. Ile thought that this
was a matter that required considerable care, and he was
aware that he was approaching very tend, r ground, and he
was very anxious that the Government should adopt
some portion of the Noble Lord's plan, and carry
it out themselves, and he was quite satisfied that
it would be productive of the greatest benefit
to the people of Ireland. If they din undertake these works,
they would be providing ample work for the people of Ireland,
and, still further, that these works would be productive of bene-
fit in a variety of ways, for they could do upon these works as
Was at present done in France, and could regulate the works
at their pleasure, and could piy the people either in few' or
• coin. At the time when the labour of the workmen was
required for agricultural purposes, they could remove them
• front the works , and, again, when the season for agricultural
employment was passed, they could again place them upon the
works. And as to the financial part of the busini as, the Go-
vernment could regulate the outlays just as they pleased, with-
cut at all impairing the efficiency of the works, for the advantage
of the people; and this, he thought, was a sufficient reason
for the Government making the works. He was still more
satisfied that they would tend to develope the resources of Ire-
land, and they could do as they pleased iti the regulation of the
works. Then as to the interest which would be derived from
the outlay of the money, he believed that a far better return
would be made from these works than from any other source ;
and if they would only do away with those ridiculous standing
orders, they would reduce the legal expenses to such an extent,
that they would save as much as would satisfy the claim for
interest, without going to any ether fund. He trusted the
Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
when he said that in America, at the present mo-
ment, railways were made altogether for less money
than was paid for the legal expenses of passing
a Bill in this country, was under a wrong impression.
By the reducti .n of those expenses they would altogether ob-
viate one cause of difficulty which seemed to impede the pro-
gress of the measure of the Noble Lord, and lie would now
thank the Right Hen. Member fur Derby for the alterations
which he had already made, and he would at the same time say
that he was delighted with the good temper with which the
Irish Members had received the statements which had been
made on this subject. If Hon. Members, who had come to this
discussion with prejtolice on their minds, weeuld only consider
that the formation of railways in this country varied from
10,000/. or 11,000'. per mile, to 50,000/. or 60,000'. per mile,
they would see that there was a sufficient margin for a large al-
lowance of contingent expenses, and he could himself, from
experience, allow for he fairness and justice of the Noble
Lord's statement. —( Cheers anti ci,unter-cheers )
Sir CHARLES NAPII•:R said that it appeared that the
House had got into a complete fix. It seemed that there was
a desire to improve the measure of the Noble Lord at the
head of the Government ; and if it could It], shown that the
measure of the Noble Lord opposite (Lord G. Bentinek), and
the introduction of railways into Ireland, would tend to the
permanent improvement of that country, he would vote for
the measure of the Noble Lord, even though the effect of the
success of that measure would be to turn out the Government.
It was said that large sums of money had been advanced for
the Caledonian Canal, and that therefore money ought to be
advanced for any measure that would tend also to the advantage
of Ireland. -Another Honourable Member hail sug-
gested that Cork harbour might be so improved
that it might he made a great naval arsenal anti depot,
and he perfectly agreed with him that such might
and that such would be the ease. But the improvement of
Cork and the promotion of the navy was not the question at
present. The question was, whether the present distress in
Ireland was to be relieved at the present moment, anti by the
plan of the Noble Lord, which was to expend 16,000,000/.
on the formation of railways to relieve the distress of the people
in that country?—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) The Noble Lord
had said that he would take the responsibility of the measure
himself, and would at once assure the Government. But he
(Sir C. Napier) greatly doubted whether the Noble Lord
could bear the responsibility, and, if he did take that
responsibility, whether he could form a Government, and if he
did form a Government, he very greatly doubted also Isis
ability to carry it on. It had been stated to the House by
the Noble Lord—and the statement had remained uncontra-
dieted—that from 25 to 30 per cent. of these 16,000,000 e
would be spent in the employment cf labour and the payment
Or wages in Ireland. He would ask any Member of that
House whether, if these works were to be set afloat, how much
of the money would go to the labourers in Ireland? And he
would further ask the Right lion. Gentleman the Mayor of
York—(Cheers and laughter) whether, if these railways
.n weret started,orthes era
he would
; have nothing to do with the manage-
and, if he had, whether he Would not
feel it his duty to employ the bestiper'sons he could find for
the performance ofthisele quite labour •rom what he had heard,
the people of Ireland w
starvation, to do
the hard labour which would
if unfi
uidberegstil fmrerdoof them in the exe-
cution of these works ; theyand,
were
esol
would not that
lion. Member feel it his duty to the shareholdermights to send for
ay
labourers from England ?—(lronical cheers.)
what they pleased, but seif-interest was the rule always tollowed.
He had been reminded that people were taken over to France
because they were the best men. They were not the most sober
men, for he had seen a great deal of them. If they could make
out that these works would be made with advantage to 'relent'
he would give his best support to the proposition. In the pre-
sent state of Ireland, it was the bounden duty of the House
of Commons to provide for the dreadful distress that
existed there. If such a calamity as the fire of London was
to occur, and half of London was to be burnt down, would it not
be the duty of the House of Commons to come forward and to
relieve the distress that had been suffered by the
houseless inhabitants ? Ireland was more distant than
England, but the duty was, nevertheless, precisely the
same._( Hear, hear.) Great reflection had been made
upon the Irish landlords, but he believed that the Irish land
lords were in a very different position to the Scottish landlords;
their estates were unencumbered, and they could therefore
apply their resources to the cultivation of their estates, and to
the improvement of the country. For these reasons he should
ocipote the second reading of the biill.
Mr. HUDSON, who rose amid such confusion that his
first words were quite inaudible, went on to complain that
observations so unfair should have been made against any
Member of that House as those which had just fallen from
the Gallant Officer who had just sat down. It was true
that
his if his Noble Friend's measure were carried, and
advice were asked he svo_ ld give all the
assistance and advice which his experience enabled
him judiciously to afford but for his own sake he thought it
was sufficiently obvious, from the position which he held and
the responsibility that lay ueon him, trat he could ever hind a
single share, or take the slightest interest in, any of these rail-
ways, lie was quite aware that it was commonly, and not
very ceremoniously, asserted that he and the gentlemen of the
highest respectability who acted with him, were prompted
Solely
rby ercenry motive; but he could declare that in all
projects ofa enterprises they had always public motives to
Prompt them as well as private interest.—(Laughter.) It ap-
peared that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had committed
a, gross mistake, but if he had been misled, he (Mr.
fuldawn) wondered that the Right Hon. the Member
for rertetscrutit (Mr, Baring) did not Correct him.