The Sun.
London, England, 1812-04-16 00:00:00

PUBLIC DEFAULTERS.

Sir JAIN NEWPORT rose to bring forward a mo-
tion respetling the various deficiencies of Public
Diloney. It was owinc, to the Public that some ac-
count should be rendered of what had been done
by the Committee of Public Expenditure, on the
_ _

subjed of the vaiious defalcations in many of the
Public Servants. •In some of the instances, the
whole of the monies deficient in winding up ac-
counts had been recovered, in others they remained
open and umettled, and, in resped to some, he fear
ed a large proportion of the balanc es were irreco-
verably lost. Whether the sums were great, or
whether they were small, was nothing to the ob-
je& of his inquiry, for the public had a right to be
apprized of the actual State of• the accounts.- In
justice to the individuals concerned, it wae.but fair
to inform the public, whether these -balances were
not over-rated by rumour—whether, upon exaaii-
oatione some of the persons accused might not be
exonerated from culpability.: • On all these grounds,
he submitted, that in this advanced period of the
Parliament, ihe a tblic 'accounts should be com-
pleted, and the Committee terminate their labows.
As guardians-of the public money, the House was
bound .to see they were claed
.before they resigned
an account of their s-ewardship into the hands'of
ttreir Cons ituents : The Right Hon. Baronet- then
noticed the several defaulters, beginning first with
General Delancee, who Was stated to have a balance
remaining in his hands Of 97,0001. . He noticed
-aiso the deficiency of-Mr. Ste,le, which, to be sure,
Was paid up, but, as he understood from an Hon.
Baronet behind here-the interest had not been paid.
He next etiticed the deficiency of Boyd and Co. and
of Mr. .fluot—g3.oooi. Ot this sum he did not
know how much had-been recovered, nor whether
,the. pension' was eon! ieued to-that 'person. The
next was Mr. Villiers, which-transaetion had turned
out favourable. There was also 'a sum elf bOOOl.
from another person ; and welt respea to Mr.
Chinnery no report had yet been made, but rumour
had stated the deticienries of that persoti.at
.8 4,0001. :
Whether that aniouet was correet, or whether it
had been over-rated, he di_i trot know, but this case,
. and all tire others be had named, ought to be laid
betore the House. It -hail been suggested to him,
With respect to the ease of Mt. Chinnery, that some
persons who were secutities for bin), had taken legal
advice as to their re,phnsibility, and that the opinion
of professional Gentlemen was, that they were ex-
onerated in consequence of the Treasury not using
due diligence when informed of thesuspicions which
attached upon his probity, in order to prevent the
defalcation. There was another case which had not
come before the House, conneded with Ireland.
It respected the Treasurer Of the Board of Works,
whose office was extingUidted in 1802.
.Tlie.latest
accounts which he •had delivered in, wer..i dated the
of March, 170, and tittle had been issued to
him between the latter period and 1802, the im-
mense sum of 1,835,000 L of which he had not
reudeted any account. He had, to be sure, stated
that his accounts were-in a state of preparation, and
that by August next one of the years would be
ready. Under these circumstances
.generally, he
thought the House would agree to the motion which
he should make—

" That it be an instruCtion of tire Committee appointed to
inquire into the Plailie Expenditure, that they do examine
into the present state of the Public Accounts and Balances
reported to be due, or that since have appeared due and ow-
ing to the Pliblic,!or which had been stated in any report laid
before the House from the Commisvoners of Military and
Naval Inquiry, or the .Commissioners of Ireland on the I
press Accounts,. and that they do lay with all convenient
speed before the House with their opinion, an A tistrad Ac-
count, specifying the amount of the Balances and the Sums
received thereon, with the dates of their Receipts—whether
any Balances and theomouiit of them, and.aisn.whether any
of the, persons implicated 4n at, present • enjoy any. place,
pension, or office of trust under the Crown, and whether
any sums now due are entirely irrecoverable, Sec."
On the question being put,
The CiIANCELLOR of fi,e gACHEQUER had no ob-
jedion to the Motion but he tho9ght the powers
of the Committee wure extended ,Mfieiently to em-
brace the objeol of the light Hon. Baronet's no-
tion. He did not knew wnether they were armed,
with those powers. If tot, the [ion. Gentleman,
(Mr. Ballieb) at the head Of the Gonunittee would,
inform the House. He thought that the House
would not be disposed to impose on them 'dt_nies
which they Might conceive nol right, for the Com-
mittee must be the.hest judges.
Mr. BANKES had no doubt the Cosittnittee- had
extensive powers, sufficient for the purposes of the.
Right, Hon. Baronet's motion. The Committed
'could have no objection-to report upon the' stale of
the balances, if the House should deem such Re-
port. expedient.
Mr. LONG observed, that it was clear the Com-
mittee have the powers. He agreed with the Right
Hon. Baronet that the return was ra.cessary, and
wished to state, with respea to one of the persons
named, Mr. Steele, that his balance had not only
been paid up, but every shilling of interest. He
stated this, to shew an Honourable Baronet, not
present, that .be was wrong informed when he
declared 'that Mr. Steele had not paid interest.--
It a justice due to Mr. Steele to set the matter
right.

.
After a few observations from the Chanc,lior of
the Exchequer, Sir John Newport, :ind :Mr. Long,
the motion was agreed to.
CORPORAL PUNISHMENT.

Mr. BLNNETT moved for a Return of the num-
ber of.CorporalTuuistuwnts in the ilep,ular

seven years. The Hon. Gentleman could not see
any injury that would arise to the service front pro-
ducing the return. He reprobated the system, and
airnitted- that in every Regiment severity had lat-
terly be-:n exchanged for kindnesS, but stated he
could briny, evidence to the Ba.r to prove that the
statement of an Hoa. Gentleman, Mr. Sutton,'as to
the few capital punishments, was incorre&. He
made some (farther observations upon the system of
punishment, which he generally condernned, and

moved, &c.
•
Mr. C. ADAMS being unable to perceive any ad-
vantage that could be -derived from the produetion
of the paper, hoped. the House would not agree to
the motion. _ _ _

Mr. MANNERS 'SUTTON agreed with the Hon.
Gentleman- who spoke last, that no public advan-
tage could be derived from the produ6tion- of 'the
paper in question. The Hon. Mover had fairly al-
low•ed tha► it was to serve as a groOnd-wOrk for the

abolition of corporal punishment altogetbet: But

the produtlion of the paper. was not necessary even
for that purpose. .He repeated what he had stated
on a former occasion, that unless- a• case of great
grievance were stated, the House would •not conseht
to volunteer- an inquiry into the minute details of
military matters. If the motion were acquiesced in
it would cast a most•undeserved slur on the present
Military Administration of the country He was
fax from denying that the Account moved for could
easily be produced, but this was attributable to the
vigilance
,of the Commander in Chief, who attended
scrUpulonsly to the manner in which punishments
were inflicted-in the various regiments of the army.
The Honourable Mover had said that it had been
contended-that the military code had been much
ameliorated, and that, therefore, that should be
made known to the army and the country by the
produaion of the paper. The • best knowledge
which the army could have on the subject was the
experience which they enjoyed of the advantage.
As to the- county, he was much deCeiVed if
the mode of administering the military law was any
bpr,to the adoption of the military life. Indeed he
was persuaded that the reverse was the case, for he
knew that the feelings of the military in general were
direcitly in opposition with the opinions of the Hon.
Mover. The, Hon. Mover justly contended, that it
was abhorrent to human nature to think that corpo-
ral punishment should be inflieted with more or leSs
severity, according to the caprice of the Command-
ing Officer of a regiment. But this could not hap-
pen without the knowledge of the Commander in
Chief ; there being half-yearly inspealions and re-
turns of the proceedings of all military Courts Mar-
tial. Of the goad effett of the present system on
the army, the state of discipline. which existed in
that artny; the-satisfaction which pervaded all ranks,
and the close connection w Inch , subsi.s!ed between

he officers 411 d the men, atibrdtd ample proof ; and

he could not hut recilet that questions of 'this nature
were brought forward, however: well intentioned,
the only et1:!61 of which must be to unsettle the mi-
litary-mind, niid to make the soldiers'believe that
they bad grievances, although those alleged griev-
ances did not at all exist. He believed, it the:it-my

itself were consulted on the question, not only
would there be found weighty and important autho
rity among the General Officers in maintenance of the
exiSting.sy tern, to place against the authority quoted
on the other side; but that it would also appear,
that a siiiiiiar sentirnent pervaded all ranks down to
the privates. Tti. lion. Mover stated, as a reason
for assenting to the motion, that there was no dif-
ficulty in civil cases, in allowing returns of persons
tried to be laid before the House, and that no
im-
putation was by that roceedieg suppoSed to be cast
on the judges. BLit the principles on • which civil
and military law were founded, were essentially
different. UnqUestionably Parliament was not ex-
cluded from all interference with military waiters;
but he was persuaded that it would not unnecessari-
ly loud) that which existed as long as the army it-
self ousted, namely, the conuoul of the Cro..yri
Oyer military affairs, and under which controul the
British Army had arisen to an unexampled state of
skill and discipline. The Commander in Chief, not
satisfied with all that he had already done for the
31 my, was at that time engaged in the consideration
of a pl.in for. sansferring many cif, the cases hither-
to brought before RegUnental Com, ts Martial to Ge-
neral Courts iVlsrtial ; thus evincing that Illustrious
Personage's unweaned zeal „for all which concerned
the interest of the soldier. The plan to which he
alluded was not a new one, but one that had been
king: disused. Upon these grounds, and princi-
' paily iipon the eitcumstance that no grave instance
of abuse' had been cited, lie conk! not agree to a
Wotion,-the tendency of 9;hich waS-alearly' to im-
pute blame to the military adMiniStration of the
country,
ATIERCRoNiBIE denied that his Hon. Friend
attempted by his motion to throw sny slur on the
Commander7in-Chief. If, as .was stated IV the
Right lion. and Learned Gentleman, great iMprove-
ment had taken place in the administration of the
'military code, What., could be more satisfatiory titan
by the pi oduelion of the papers in question, to de-
stroy alf•the ‘mikonception which existed 'on the
subject I- • •
Mr: SMITU followed on the same side, con-
tending ihtt the. denial that any abuses had existed
Was in.onsistent• with the assertion that great
peovement- had been Wade in the military system.
This obstirvation he particularly applied; to the new
plan reSpeMing •Courts" Martial, which the Right
Hon. and 'Learned Gentleman had said was under
consideration.
MANNERS SUTTON, in explanation, stated
that the object of the new plan was to give to Offi-
cers bi- Regimental Courts Martial, in cases not suffi-
ciently grave, to be sent to General Courts Martial,
but nevertheless- too complicated for the ordinary
anode of trial, that 'assistance which would proted
them from irregularity in their proceedings.
fir F. Butiparr was of opinion, that cases of a
nature sufficiently grave had been 'stated on former
occasions,-to induce the Houge to consent to the pre-
sent motion. He repeated the instance of the eight
men- in Gibraltar, who were returned by the Sur-
geon as having died of flogging, which last word he
afterwards altered to fever; of the dismissal of the
Officers who would not persevere in the inflitlion
of that sanguinary punishment, and of their restora-
tion to his Majesty's service, upon the representa-
tions of, Lord Hutchinson. He then adverted to a
number of cases ;elated in the public prints, which,
if untrue, he presumed would have
_been contra-

suicide to avoid the punishment of tinning; in
others, they attempted to commit suicide, and ex•
perienced an increased puni,timf nt for the attt mpt.
The feelings of the Officers of the army became

callous by their being accustomed to such sanguinary
exhibitions. Old men of 70; and boys of t ti, were
equally subject to the lash, against which the feeble-
ness of age, and the indiscretion of youth, al.
forded no plea. In many cases, death had followed
the punishment ; and in this resped, the soldier's si-
tuation was most shamefully unprotected. Wilde
in the hospital, he. had not the tueans'of communi-
eating his tale of iffj-ury- to any one, and when
dead, his body was submitted to the inspection of

no Coroner. Was this a situation for „an .English
soldier ? It was unt_cine for a dog. Undoubtedly

t was the prerogative of the Executive Government
:o exercise controul over the army, but it was the

duty of Parliament to take care in what way that

cOntroul was exercised. The Right Hon. denik-
mdn opposite talked of the punishment of flogging

as convivially as it it were to be exercised only on
puppy dogs. It was a punishment uniting in it

every thing detestable, and was deslruclive7of th 9
object of all punishment. The apprehension of it
materially retarded the recruiting of the army,
and increased the number of desertions. He ad-
verted to the opinion given on the trial in the

early part of his present Majesty's Reign, of some
Officers who had sentenced a man in Canada to
a flogging, of which he died. That opinion was
given by the then Attorney-General, Baron Ma-
seres, who declared that the punishment .which had
been inflicted by.the sentence of the Court Martial,
of which those Officers were the members, exceeded
in ingenious cruelty that int:l-tiled on R the
murderer of Henry IV. of France. Soldiers were fre-
quently known to faint in t he ranks, from their, ina-
bility to witness such a horrible punishment. But
the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman asserted,
that the army wi,hed it to be continued. This
could only be. paralleled by a passage in one of the
Satires of Juvenal, in which it was said that the fish
desired to be taken for the dinner of the Emperor.—
The cat o'nine tails'mUst certainly be got rid of. If
it were not given up by the Gentlemen opposite, it
would nevertheless be abolished. • All other griev-
ances were comparatively trifling. He had hoped.
that the hints which had been- thrown out on the
subject would have induced Goernttient to .do them-
selves the credit of abolishing it. But as that was not
the case, he could not sit and see such base and despi-
cable chains fastened on the people of England. The
great advantage of the present motion was, t hit, 'in
point of filet, it was for the abolition of the punish-
ment. For the paper would either shew that the
tponishment had ceased, or else would disclose such
leas as must compel Parliament to cause it to cease.
He could not say, that he cherished any sanguine
hope of the success of the present .motion, because
he knewt that the Hone sympathised with the seri-
tiulents of the Treasury Bench, and indeed with all
Treasury Benches. If, however, they -believe the
Bible to be the word of God, they would recolleCt
that it was for bidden to inflia upon man more than
forty blows, save one, lest his person should become
vile by an infliction against the law. Atler pro-.
ceed ng at considerable length, the Hon. Baronet
concluded by expressing his cordial concurrence in
the motion.