The Sun.
London, England, 1847-12-15 00:00:00

DECEMBER, 15, 1847.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
ROUSE OF LORDS, Dec. 14.
The Earl of SHATTESBURY, in the absence of the
Lord Chancellor, took his seat upon the Woolsack at
Five o'clock.

JEWISH DISABILITIES.
The Bishop of DURHAM presented a petition against
the removal of the Jewish disabilities.
RELATIONS WITH. ROME.
The RIGHT REY. PRELATE also presented a petition
from certain of the clergy, praying the House not to
sanction the entering into any diplomatic relations with
the Court of Rome.

IRAILWAYS BILL.
Messengers from the Commons brought up the Rail-
ways Bill, which was read a first time.
JE WISH DISABILITIES.
Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition against the
removal of the Jewish Disabilities.
CASE OF F. A. BROWNR.
The NOBLE and LEARNED LORD also presented
a petition from Mr. Anderson, a solicitor, relating
to the case of Frederick Augustus Browne, who
had been convicted of bigamy, and sentenced to
transportation, and whose sentence had subsequently
been commuted. He had no knowledge of
the case, except what he derived from the
petition. Mr. Browne had in 1844 married a
Miss Copeland. After the marriage the latter
discovered that he had married a certain Mary
Bowen, and Mr. Browne was given into custody, and
tried on a charge of bigamy. His defence was that, at
the time of the first marriage, he was under age, and
that the woman to whom he was married had a husband
living at the time. He was tried on the 11th of April,
1846, convicted, and subsequently sentenced to seven
years' transportation. He was permitted to re-
main in Kilmainham county gaol until February, 1847,
in the Master Debtor's apartment. The petition com
plained of this long delay in carrying the sentence into
execution; but there must be an answer to that, because
previous to his conviction a suit had been commenced
of nullity of marriage against him. Upon sentence of
nullity of marriage being pronounced, he entered an
appeal to the Court of Delegates, and that Court did
not pronounce its sentence until February 8, 1847,
therefore he did not complain against the authorities for
retaining him during that time in Kilmainham gaol.
After this Mr. Browne thought fit to become the prose-
cutor of his first wife for bigamy, but he did not think
fit to institute this suit until after his own conviction.
The trial came on, and to the no small surprise of all
present she pleaded guilty, and she was sentenced to
two months' imprisonment. The sentence of nul
lity of marriage condemned Mr. Browne in the
costs, and he also owed Mr. Anderson certain
costs, and a detainer was lodged against him at
Kilmainham for these costs. He was removed from
Kilmainham to Smithfield gaol, the convict prison of
Dublin, which is out of the jurisdiction of the Sheriffs
of Dublin. Mr. Anderson, therefore, applied to the
Government, as he had been informed that a pardon
had been expedited for Mr. Browne—and he did not
complain of the pardon—that a reasonable time might
be granted before the expediting the said pardon, to
give him an opportunity of arresting Mr. Browne,
for costs. The answer was that Mr. Browne had been
pardoned upon certain conditions only, and because,
from the state of hie health, his life would have been
endangered by further confinement. The answer wont
on to state that he had been pardoned upon conditions,
and when they were complied with he would be dis-
charged from custody. He had been removed to Kil-
mainham, and Mr. Anderson lodged a second detainer.
Mr. Browne was again removed from Kilmainham
to Smithfield, out of the jurisdiction of the Sheriffs.
He again applied, and was informed that so soon as the
conditions should be complied with, Mr. Browne would
be discharged. The pardon came and was sealed, and
the whole might have been perfected on the 16th of
September, but which was delayed until Saturday, the
1 Sth of December, when the patent was sealed, and,
contrary to usual custom, it was enrolled the same day,
instead of being enrolled on the Monday following,
which would have been the usual practice, and
the • order for Mr. Browne's discharge was sent
direct from the secretary's office; the governor
refused to discharge him at four o'clock on the
Saturday, but discharged him the next morning,
Sunday, when he could not be arrested; so that Mr.
Copeland and Mr. Anderson were deprived of their
costs.

The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said the case of
Mr. Browne was a most extraordinary one. He had
been remanded to Kilmainham gaol to abide the deci-
sion of the Ecclesiastical Court; when that had been given
against him he was removed to the usual convict depot;
and retained there until the surgeon reported that his
life was in danger, and he was then removed to Kilmain-
ham for his health, to a ward, which, under a recent act,
had been made a convict depot, and was out of the ju
risdiction of the sheriff He was pardoned on giving a
bond that he would absent himself from her Majesty's
dominions. He was removed from Kilmainham to
Smithfield at his own desire. On Tuesday, the
14th September, it was reported that the conditioas had
been complied with, on Thursday the Lord-Lieutenant
signed the pardon, on Friday it was enrolled, on Sa-
turday it was returned to the Secretary's office, and on
the afternoon of that day Sir William Somerville
wrote the usual order for his discharge, and as
far as any member of the Irish Government was con-
cerned, the affair was conducted according to the usual
course; and he put it to their Lordships whether it would
have been proper in the Government to have given any
information to Mr. Anderson to enable him to arrest
this man upon his discharge from gaol? The Govern-
ment pursued a straightforward course as regarded this
convict, as they would with regard to any other convict,
and there was no ground for accusing them of par-
tiality.
Lord BROUGHAM and the Marquis of CLANRICARDE
mutually explained.
PENINSULAR MEDALS.
The Duke of RICHMOND asked when it was likely
the medals would be given to the Peninsular officers
and soldiers, and if it was intended to extend the grant
of such medals to other officers and soldiers and
sailors who served in the late war? He had hoped
that those brave men who gad served under Aber-
crombie in Egypt, and those bravo sailors who
had, during the course of the late war, sustained the
honour of their country in skirmishes and in single ac-
tions, would also be decorated. He thanked his Noble
Friends opposite for what they had done, but he thought
that medals ought to have been distributed much more
extensively. Although there had not been the slightest
pledge given by her Majesty's Ministers on that occa•
sion, yet he felt anxious again to press the matter on
their attention. He never contemplated that in doing an
act of justice to the officers and soldiers who had so
nobly served their country in the great Peninsular war,
that they would exclude others who had served under
Abercrombie in Egypt, and under many of our greatest
naval heroes. He did not either perceive the justice of
confining the honours to those who happened to be pre-
sent tinny of those who were not
fortunate enneoruagl tiohactobnesp;reseat at such actions, had yet,
in the discharge of other and most important duties, suf-
fered much hardship received serious wounds, bravely
done their duty, and were of essential serice in securing
that success of which these general actions were the
most brilliant features. He could not say that he was
satisfied by the exclusion of such men from the list of
those to whom decorations were to bo granted. He
thought that medals should be given more extensively,
and that many of the soldiers and sailors who had fought
in their great ware, were quite as worthy of having
medals as many of those to whom they had been
granted for having been in general engagements during
the last few years. He suggested whether they might
not make some difference in the medals granted to those
who had been in skirmishes, and those in general actions.
He concluded by asking his Noble Friend whether it
was intended to issueithose medals immediately, to wait
until all the claimants had been decided upon, or to
issue them each month as the claims were settled?
Earl GREY was not aware that any further exten-
sion was intended beyond the grants contained in the
order issued from the Horse Guards last June, and
which order specified the actions for which medals were
to be granted. With respect to the navy, it had been
found that the rule laid down did not apply, and there-
fore it was likely that some extension might be needed
in that direction. As to the claims, 2,000 had been dis-
posed of, 400 had been rejected, and 16,000 were still
under consideration. The design for the medals had
been presented and approved, but some delay had oc-
curred in their preparation, owing to the artist having
nearly lost his life by a severe railway accident. He
understood, however, that the medal woald be ready in
about two months from that time, and he saw no
reason. why they should not be delivered as soon as
they were ready.
CRIME AND OUTRAGE (IRELAND) BILL.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said it was of great
importance that the Bill for the prevention of crime and
outrage in Ireland, which had been sent up from the
other House of Parliament, and read the first time in
their Lordships' House last night, should be proceeded
with as rapidly as possible. He wished, therefore, to
state that it was his intention to move the second read-
ing of that Bill to-morrow. As they were approaching
the holidays, it was not his intention to go into any
lengthened explanation on that occasion. He would, on
going into Committee on Thursday, give the grounds on
which the Bill was brought forward, and the objects the
Government had in view. That course would, he be-
lieved, be acceptable to their Lordships, by giving them
time to examine the provisions of the Bill, and, as he
believed, one debate would be sufficient upon it, the pass-
ing of the Bill would not be thereby delayed.
Lord STANLEY thought the course proposed by the
Noble Marquis would meet the general convenience of
the House. He was not aware that there was any in-
tention to oppose the Bill, and therefore one discussion
would be enough, while the course proposed by :the
Noble Marquis would give their Lordships sufficient time
to examine the Bill.
DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS WITH THE
ITALIAN STATES.
Lord STANLEY proceeded to call the attention of
the House to the continued absence of the Lord Privy
Seal. Under any circumstances the absence for several
months of a person holding so high a position as that of
Lord Privy Seal would be a ground to entitle Parliament
to ask for some explanation from the Government ; and
the necessity for such explanation would be increased,
if; as in the present case, the state of the country was
such as to require Parliament to be called together at a
period much earlier than usual, and under circum-
stances in which it was to be expected that every person
who was honoured with a seat in her Majesty's Council
would be present to offer his advice and assistance. Ho
had always understood that though the office of Lord
Privy Seal was not one the duties of which were
particularly onerous or laborions, still that it was an
office of great importance and high authority, the
othfewehoienz
hatutstat
d.u!tes
tanddianse
made for the due
presumed arrangements hid been
eeharogfedthien ppearrstoynh,
oaldnidiagreiqtrro

discharge of the duties of the office during
Earl Minto's absence, and what those arrange-
ments were the Noble Marquis (Lansdowne) would
probably inform their Lordships. He confessed, how.
ever, he should be less anxious for any explanation on
the subject, were it merely on account of the absence of
the Noble Earl from England; but that which rendered
a specific answer from the Noble Marquis to the ques-
tions he was about to put to him necessary was, not so
much the absence of the Noble Earl from England, as
his presence in Italy at this particular moment.—(Hear.)
There was a general expectation and belief prevailing in
this country—whether correct or not he was unable to
say—that it was the intention of her Majesty's Govern-
ment to endeavour to establish diplomatic relations
between this country and the Court of Rome, and that
the mission of Earl Minto was connected with that
object. With regard to the expediency or policy of
such a change of the law—if change of the law were
necessary —as should enable the Government to esta-
blish such relations with the temporal Sovereign of the
Roman States he expressed no opinion. He said that
the Noble Viscount the Secretary of State for Foreign
Affairs, in answer to a question recently put to him in
another place, had stated that Lord Minto was
entrusted by her Majesty's Government with no mis-
sion to the see of Rome.—(Hear, hear.) He under-
stood that answer to mean that Earl Minto was not,
on the part of her Majesty's Government, an accredited
Minister entrusted with any diplomatic functions at the
Court of Rome; at the same time there undoubtedly was
a belief in this country, which belief had been much
strengthened by reports, whether true or false he knew
not, of an interview of considerable duration with which
the Noble Earl had been honoured by the Sovereign
Pontiff, that if not engaged directly to establish diplo-
matic relations, one portion of his duty had been to
ascertain what would be the feeling of the Court of Rome
with regard •to the establishment of such relations.—
(Hear, hear.) But though such was the opinion which
prevailedlgenerally, not only in England and in Italy,
but throughout the continent, he apprehended that a
different motive might be attributed to the mission in
which Earl Minto was now engaged. He used the word
" mission," for he assumed that the Noble Earl was not
at that time a mere casual visitor at Rome, travelling
for his own amusement, and in that case culpably neg-
lecting his duty both to Parliament and his office'in the
Government. Assuming, therefore, that in some capa-
city or other he was acting on the part of', and perform-
ing the duty of a representative of the British Sovereign,
his object was now to ask of the Government that
which he thought Parliament had a right to ask, if it
was thought necessary to dispatch to any foreign country
an officer of such high rank and dignity as a member of
the Cabinet—the Lord Privy Seal ? Parliament had a
right to inquire what was the nature of the mission on
which he had been dispatched, and the functions he was
supposed to be entrusted with. Such an inquiry would
be right in reference to the mission of a Cabinet Mi-
nister to any country ; but with regard to the Italian
States, and at this particular time, it was a matter of
peculiar importance that Parliament should be fully in-
formed of the views with which Lord Minto had been
sent out. He was not acquainted with all the intricacies
of the present state of affairs in Italy, especially the
north of Italy ' • but it was notorious that, under the
auspices of the Pontiff, and partly under other auspices,
here was a state of disquiet and political movements
going on'which excited exaggerated hopes on the one
hand, and apprehensions on the other, the effect of
which was to place the whole of that part of the con-
tinent in a state of ferment, and the several nations
connected by political relations with it in a state
of considerable anxiety. It was under the guid-
ance of the present Pontiff that various schemes
had been set afloat for the introduction of a more
liberal system of government in the affairs of the northern
states. Similar concessions, they know, had been
demanded by several other states from their respective
sovereigns, and, to a more or less extent, and with more
or lesi reluctance, those concessions had, by nsore than
one of those sovereigns, been granted. What might be
the object of the present movement in Italy, or the ulti-
mate intention of those who were directing it—if indeed
they had made up their minds as to any ultimate inten-
tion—above all, what might be the moaning of that ex-
pression put forth as the watchword of the more eager
partisans of that movement, " the independence of Italy,"
he (Lord Stanley) could form no conception.—(Hear.)
But the object of the movement in the Italian states, so
far as it had taken place in one or more of those states,
was confined, so far as he could understand, to changes
of purely an internal nature—changes in the popular
power in its relations with the sovereign power as then
exercised. So far then as this movement had anything
of an internal aspect and bearing it was, so far, removed
from such eases as this country, acting on principles
of geod sense and good policy, had any right to
interfere in. It had been supposed that the object
of the movement was partly of a commercial and
partly of a political character, for the purpose of
establishing a general federal union of all the states
of the north of Italy. If the object were to estab-
lish a commercial union which would in any way affect
the commercial interests of this country, no doubt it
would be a matter for the attention of her Majesty's
Government, and one that should be watched carefull7
by them at home ; but it was one that by no means justi-
fied the accrediting a cabinet minister to the Court of
Rome. So, if the object were to effect alterations in the
internal political arrangements of those states, though it
might be well deserving the attention, and justify the
anxious consideration of the Government, the, last course
they should pursue would be to give to that movement
direct encouragement by the presence of a cabinet minis-
ter of this country.—(Hear.) But if, by the " indepen-
dence of Italy " it was meant that no foreign power
should exercise any control over any province situated
within the geographical limits of Italy, that was an ob-
ject to which not only this country would not be justified
in contributing, but an object which we were bound by
the faith of treaties not only not to aid but to resist.
Though Earl Minto might not be accredited to the Pope
or to any other sovereign that we know of, yet, being the
representative of the British Government, he had, pre-
suming the information which had reached this country
to be correct, compromised the British Government by
his acts, by his words, and by his conduct ; and
it was due, therefore, to Parliament that they should
have a distinct understanding of the functions which
Lord Minto had to perform, and the character of the
instructions with which he had been sent out. The re-
ports which had appeared in those sources of information
which were open to all, as to Lord Minto's proceedings,
he trusted the Noble Marquis would be enabled to con-
tradict. He meant that the Minister of Great Britain,
so situated and so circumstanced as Lord Minto was in
Italy, had, on more than one or two occasions, appeared
in answer to the calls of the people parading the streets
with flags and emblems, and joined with them in the cry
in favour of the " independence of Italy;" that on the
second occasion, daring a procession at Rome, the crowd
assembled before the hotel in which Lord Minto
resided, and, recognising him not as a mere British
traveller, but as the supposed representative of this
country, and as expressing the sentiments of the
British Government, called for him, and that in obe-
dience to that call, he appeared on the balcony
waved his hand to them, and joined in the " Vivasl"
for the independence of Italy. He trusted that
the Noble Marquis would be enabled to state that
there was no truth in these details. In a nobleman of
the Earl of Minto's rank such intermeddling with the
internal affairs of foreign states would be highly repre-
hensible, but it became doubly so when the nobleman so
acting was the avowed and accredited representative of
his Government.—(Hear, hear.) For a man so circum-
stanced to take any part in the movement at present
going on in Italy, but shove all to join the vague and
unintelligible cry of Italian independence, was a course
calling for unequivocal disapproval, and he trusted he
should hear from the Noble Marquis that it was wholly
inconsistent with the instructions of the Government.—
(Hear, hear.) The question he was about to put to the
Noble Marquis, and to which he hoped ho should receive
a satisfactory reply, were, in the first place, whether
provison had been made for discharging;the duty of Lord
Privy Seal in the absence of the Earl of Minto; and
next, on the assumption that that Noble Lord was in
Italy, under the orders of his Government, he wished
distinctly to be informed to what object his instructions
pointed, and whether or no be was accredited to the
supreme Pontiff or to any other Italian sovereign, and,
if so, what were the limits of his functions, power,
and authority ?—(Hear, hear.) He wished further to
know whether the Noble Marquis, on the part of the
Government, was prepared to state that England had no
desire to interfere—he did not mean merely by force,
but by moral influence, or by the encouragement of its
accredited Minister—in the internal affairs of Italy, or
in disturbing those forms of government which each
particular state might have thought fit to adopt. These
were the questions to which he hoped the Noble Mar-
quis would give a distinct answer, both as to the facto

and as to the views of her Majesty's Government; and
he also hoped for a denial of the conduct which had
been attributed to Lord ➢Tinto, or, if it were admitted,
he hoped for a declaration that Lord Minto in so act-
ing had exceeded his instructions and authority.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that the Noble
Lord had asked for explanations respecting certain
subjects, and ha had accompanied his request
with observations respecting the conduct of a
member of the Government at present in Italy. In
the first place, the Noble Lord wished to know on what
grounds the Lord Privy Seal had been absent from
this country, and i❑ consequence had not attended his
duty in that House. He (the Marquis of Lansdowne)
might refer the Noble Lord to other times, and other

circumstances, when a Cabinet Minister, holding a high
official station, had been absent from his post without
any disadvantageous circumstances resulting from such
absence. Ho thought that the Noble Lord must be
sufficiently aware of the duties of Lord Privy Seal, to
know that, although it was undoubtedly an office of high
rank, yet that, looking to the ordinary practical ad-
ministration of affairs, it was not attended with any

species of difficulty which required the constant pre-
sence in that House, or in the country, of the perso
exercising it. The Noble Lord might also recollect that,
some ten or twelve years since, when the Noble Lord
himself was connected with the Government, and
when an inquiry took place as to the expediency of retain-
ing or abolishing certain offices, the office of Privy Seal
was preserved on grounds entirely alien from its neces-
sity for practical business purposes. It was preserved
on grounds connected with the importance of having a
high officer of the Government unencumbered with
heavy duties, ready for special service; and that being
the case, what was so natural as that for the service al-
luded to by the Noble Lord the present Lord Privy
Seal should have been selected?—(Elear, hear.) Besides,
he had been appointed to that duty at a time when esl'
immediate meeting of Parliament was conte mpl no
implied bytheaNteote
(Hear, hear.) But the objection
Lord in his question not merely applied to the individual
selected, but also to the nature of the mission for which
he had been selected to repair to foreign countries. Now
it was the very nature of that mission which made it de-
sirable that a Noble Lord, who possessed the entire con- ,

' fidence of his colleagues, and who was perfectly
acquainted with rec :nt transactions, should be
selected. He (the Marquis of Lansdowne) had no
hesitation, after what the Noble Lord had stated
that evening with respect to the condition of
Italy, in reminding their Lordships of the im-
portance of the transactions which were taking place
in that country, leading, as they might do, not only to
consequences of the greatest moisichit consequences
highly advantageous in themselves, and conducive to the
prosperity of each Italian state, but also to consequences
of infinite importance, inasmuch as they might involve
the relations of the Italian states with other countries.
In the movement now prevailing in that country, which
could not be condemned, because its professed isbjects in
each individual state tended to a reform, which had not
only been long desired in Italy, but had been frequently
urged upon her by foreign Powers as necessary to her
welfare, and to the preservation not only of her peace,
but that of Europe—(Hear, hear)—a movement which
had become simultaneous, which was still temperate,
but which, from its character, was likely to become in-
temperate—it was necessary that not a moment should
be lost in offering the friendly advice and interference
of England, rot directed to any particular ob-
ject, but a general interference calculated at once to
encourage the Government and the population in the
steps they were taking, so far as those steps were
limited to one object, namely, the internal improvement
of each state. These circumstances, even in any view
of the case, were so important as to demand the prompt
attention of her Majesty's Government and the prompt
attention of England. A movement was prevailing in
Italy, the professed object of which was to effect shorn-
tions and reforms which not only had been long desired
in Italy itself, but had lo,•en frequently urged upon the
Italian states by friendly powers, as necessary to the
welfare of Italy, and tending not only to preserve the
peace of that country, but of Europe itself.—(Hear.)
Those reforms had long been looked for, and the mo-
ment had now arrived when a spirit of reform, tem-
perate it might be hoped, but a spirit which, from its
character, might become intemperate, manifested itself
in every part of the country. There could not be a
moment when it was more important that the friendly
advice of England should be given, that there should
be, on the part of England, an interference not
directed to a particular object, but an interference
that would encourage the .Governments of Italy in
the course they were pursuing, as far as that course was
limited to the internal improvement of each individual
state. There could not be a state of things in which
it was more material that the state of Italy should be
fully considered by England, and through the
agency of a nobleman of the high standing
and great capacity of the Earl of Minto, who had left
this country accredited to all the sovereigns of
Italy, except one, to whom, undoubtedly, by
the law of this country, as that law is understood, he
could not be legally accredited. The Earl of Minto
was instructed to offer the sovereigns to whom he was
accredited the most friendly advice, and to confine that
advice to objects connected with the internal improve-
ment of each state. He (the Marquis of Lansdowne)
considered that their Lordships would find that he
answered the Noble Lord (Lord Stanley's) question
fairly when he stated that her Majesty's Go
vernment was sensible of the necessity of in-
terfering by advice for the preservation of
peace, as well in Italy as outside it. The Earl of Minto
had communicated with the other sovereigns of Italy,
and ho felt justified in saying that those sovereigns
expressed their entire satisfaction for the prudent advice
given by the accredited authority of the British Govern-
ment, but he should add that that Noble Earl had no
communication with the Court of Rome. Such a pro-
ceeding would be contrary to law; but if the Noble
Lord (Lord Stanley) wished to now his opinion,
though he (Lord Stanley) seemed to wish to avoid giv-
ing his own, he (the Marquis of Lansdowne) should say
that he thought that it would be much to the interest of
this country that information could be procured as well
at the Court of Rome as in any other Court throughout
the world, and that through an accredited authority.
He thought that if the Noble Earl (Earl Minto) did
express any sympathy in the anxiety for reform and
alteration now prevalent throughout Italy, that he
was not to be censured, and that the Government
was not to be blamed.—(Hear, hear.) He did rot
think that the Noble Lord (Lord Stanley) need feel
the slightest apprehension for the Privy Seal, as that
instrument was secure, and would not be used unne-
cessarily.

- AFFAIRS OF SWITZERLAND.
Lord BEAUMONT said he felt highly pleased with
the manly assertion of the Noble Marquis (the Marquis
of Lansdowne). He believed that this country would
be much benefited by an accredited officer at the Court
of Rome. He should next proceed with the motion of
which he had given notice, whether it was the intention
of her Majesty s Government to mediate in the affairs of
Switzerland. The Noble Lord then proceeded ;to ex-
plain that, according to the federal compact entered into
by the several cantons in 1815, and which was the basis
of the present system in that country, that each canton
was to be represented at the Diet, and should have its
own independence in the smaller council in their respec-
tive cantons. All power was to be left to the central
Government. He considered that the Jesuits were the
principal agents in the disturbances of that country, and
the chief promoters of the Sonderbund treaty.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that he did not
feel the least difficulty in answering that question. This
country had never determined to enter into the affairs of
Switzerland by any other way than advice. Above all,
she deprecated an armed interference. When England was
called upon she gave advice; and when the antagonistic
parties were preparing for opposition it was found
that one of the parties had left the field, and conse-
quently there was no necessity for England's mediation.
The House adjourned at Half•past Seven.

HOUSE OF COTIL !MONS, Dec. 14.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock.
Sir GEORGE STRICKLAND and another lion. Member
took the oaths and their seats.
Papers from the Poor-law Commissioners were pre-
sented.