The Sun.
London, England, 1841-03-16 00:00:00

ST. SULPICE.

The Bishop of EXETER then said ho rose in ac-
cordance with the notice which he had given. It
would be in their Lordships' recollection, that when he

had first brought this matter before them, he had said
that he should simply state the reasons which had
struck his mind in favour of the petition, and of the
objects to which the petitioners looked. If on
that night he had experienced any grave oppo
sition, he should have deliberated long with him-
self before he took the decisive step he had taken
on giving notice of this motion. But when he found all
he had to say upon the subject was commented upon by
the Noble Viscount near him (Lord Melbourne) in a
manner, which with the utmost respect for his high
talents, he (the Bishop of Exeter) must frankly
say seemed to him to be no answer at all—when
he (the Bishop of Exeter) also found the incalculable
weight and vast importance that was given to the
st ttements and arguments he bad then propounded by
the noble declaration of the Noble Duke Waington),
a declaration that he was strongly opposed to this the
first attempt to break in upon the Protestant con•
st:tution of this country, and upon the princi-
ples of the Reformation ; and when he (the Bishop
of Exeter) found that the noble sentiment of that

illustrious man was echoed throughout the em-
pire by almost every honest Protestant within it, he
f.lt he had no other course to pursue, and he at once
announced that he would bring the subject before the
House, in the way of which he had givea notice, and
which Fe now presantod himself to do. And yet
while he frankly confessed that he was greatly encouraged
by the circumstances he had mentioned—while he was
greatly encouraged by the ardent assurances of sym-
pathy he had received from Noble Lords on the subject
of this motion—while he was urged to this measure by
those and other circumstances, even so late as the
very day for which he had given notice of his motion,
remarks had reached his ears, remarks which he could
not walk through the streets without hearing, that st'l
that sympathy was misapplied, that it was all mistaken,
that he (the Bishop of Exeter) was wrong, and that
he should be treated as if he were wrong. He had
heard all this ; and he frankly avowel he stood in
consequence before their Lordships with feelings
of great diflicult.y, much disheartened, moth discour-
aged, almost discomfited. Nevertheless, he felt that
lie had a duty to perform to the Protestants of this
great empire, and, at the same time, a duty to himself,
from which he would not shrink, however painful it
might be. The discussion of that night was greatly •
simpl.fi,l by an admission which seemed univer-
sally made that ttile ecclesiastics
went
stices of
which.S
i
St.
thSsuelprice
di-
had
no legal claim
nance, if it were not disal'owed would bestow upon
them. The claim of legal
w right
aw:as uttrly withdrawn,
and in lieu of it another claim was up—an equitable
claim—a claim not of legal equity, but of equity
foundedot would upont e 3nffern
a f Government
during the list 70 years, and upon variouscc°
which it was said had been made by different Ministers,
to give pertly, if nct entirely, what this ordinance
propesed to bestow. That sufferance had no.tnece'noewa
without some considerable objections. la the first
place, by the statut) of Quebec ; andnot t
only
se, because the Crown was not in the habit of consenting
its law officers from time to time, in order that it might
act in defiance of the opinion of its Lw ofr,,„.
lie therefore thought that in every instance where the
Crown was known to have applied to its law oCers for
advice on this subject, it was to be considered
til
2 ce-
that notice was given to this body that the claims
of fWere fie Seminarydi for When the
N Ale Lord opposite was S.-cretlr y
the
G -
tonics, he directed Lord Aylmer, then
vernor of Canada, to enter into negotiations with the
Seminary, and with all kindness said, that unless they
assented to the generous terms, which were proposed
to them, he should, however reluctantly, advise Cie
Crown to assert its claims. This was not a matter of
Eght moment. If these were legal claims, or claims
founded in equity, which could not but bey ielded to, it
would be necessary to concede the whole, and
to give them all that was demanded by
them ; but the present ordinance exercised a discre-
tion as to how much should be conceded. It certainly
gave largely—enormously—far mere than, he trusted,
their Lordships would countenance when they heard
the amount. But it did not give all, and by re-
fusing
a part it let in the claims of the Crown. It was
not the Governor alone who had a discretion in this case.
Their Lordships were called on by the Constitution of
the country to exercise their discretion also. He had
now to inform them of the amount of the gift which
was about to be made, and it was the more necessary
that he should do so, became as he had the
honour to inform them on a former occasion, the
Government had refused in the Council to give
any account of the amount of the property which

this ordinance puts into the possession of the
Seminary. Therefore the petitioners had thought proper
to inform their Lordships, through him, of the amount,
which was in the whole as much as 260,6251.
The assessment on the buildings within the city was,
generally speaking, below the real value ; it had been
made for the purposes of local taxation, and in some
cases was no criterion of the actual worth. The real
value was 26,400/. It was stated that not much
more than one-fourth of the land within the city limits
was built upon. A number of valuable buildings
had been erected since 1836, which were not included
in this account. These would make the amount
50,000/. The Rev. Prelate then referred to the value
of the other seignories, which was not as gre it as
that of St. Sulpice. The latter seignory con-
tained 70,000 acres. He would not enter into mi-
nute detail ; but the result was, that there must be
100,0001. more added for the items which he
had now mentioned. The Noble Marquis smiled ; but
he could assure him that there were two gentlemen
then in London who would he glad to be examined a•
tl:c bar of their Lordships' House for the purpose of
corroborating that statement. Titus they had got a
sum total of .520,000/. Oa the securities of
the estates in Canada the interest was 6 per cent.
The annual proceeds, therefore, of this property, would
be no I.iss than 30,000/. per annum, the whole of which
was most munificently given by this ordinance to the
ecclesiastics of the Seminary of St. Sulpice.—( Heat%)
Noes who were these ecclesiastics ? They were Ro-
man Catholic ecclesiastics—that was no reason why
they should be deprived of their dult—he would not en
that ground think of asking their Lordships for an ad-
verse vote; but it was a reason for calling on the
Legislature of this Protestant country to consi-
der e`'ore they granted so enormous n sum
to support the interests of the Roman Cathcic Church
in a country where 30,0001. a-year, large as it has in
England, was a sum of most appalling amount. It
was equal to one-third of the revenues of the Lowe,
Province, the whole of which scarcely exceeded
100,000/. a-year. Were they prepared to give by that
ordinance a sum equal to one-third the revenues of
the Province of Lower Canada, for the purpose of
supporting the Roman Catholic religion? They shoul
well consider before they consented to this ; they should
consider whether it was right to endow this Roman CA-
r.holic Seminary in such. a manner as to make it
richer than the Church of England and all the other
Protestant Churches in the Colony put together ;
30,000/. was seven times the whole amount given by the
Government for the support of the clergy of Lower
Canada ; 4,000/. a year was the pitiful sum doled
out by the Government to the clergy of Lower Ca-
nada, and that was not permanent, but was to
drop off as the individuals receiving it died. Let
them contrast that with the liberal manner in
which it was proposed to endow this Popish
Seminary with 30,000/. a year : it was enabrng them in
future generations to secure the triumph of their
Church. Montreal was a city containing a vast
number of poor. Large numbers of emigrants,
landed there every year from this country and
from Ireland. There were no Poor-laws there
—no means of alleviating the distresses of the Poor.
The giving 30,0001. to a body of ecclesiastics to distri-
bulc among such a population was, in fact, enabling them
to plant the standard of their Church triumphant. They
had not been commonly just to the Church of England,
they had not even done that which they were hound to

do by statute law. The law both of England and Ca-
nada was—and instructions to carry that law out were
given to all the Governors of Canada—that the tithes
due to the Protestant clergy should be collected by the
Government and employed in the maintenance of the Pro-
testant clergy, and that in all cases cf vacancies the
amounts that might accrue should be kept for the main-
tainance of tke Protestant clergy. Now he believed there

was not a single instance in Canada of a cure lacing le-
gally entitled to the tithes, because there IT a 3 not one
who was liCensed by the Governor. The result was that
the Protestant clergy had lost every shilling of their
tithes, because the Government had neglected to collect
them. It was impossiblo to forget the measure dealt out
to the Church of England—the beggarly sum la la:ch the
Protestant clergy had received. Let their Lordships recol-
lect it was their sacred duty to support that Church. He
grieved to hear thit a majority of their Lordships in-
tended to vote against his motion, that they would yield a
reluctant consent for the purpose of obtaining other ob-
jects than this ordinance, the result of which would

inevitably be to papalize Lower Canada.-4 Hear,
hear.) Canada he had always considered as the right
arm of England, if they thought to papalize it was the best
method of uniting it to Protestant England, let them at
once avow their object. For his part, he felt bound by
the duty he owed to a Higher Power to protest against
any measure likely to produce such an effect. Whatever
might be the right which the Seminary claimed, it could
not claim to be placed upon a better footing than the pa-
rent Seminary stood under the French Crown. The Se-
minary cf St. Sulpice at Montreal was an off shoot of the
Seminary of St. Sulpice of Purls. That Seminary was
endowed with the signeurie of Montreal in the year 1667
by letters patent from Lous XIV. The Right Rev. Pro-
late then read the letters patent, from which it appeared
that the object fur which the College was endowed with
the Island of Montreal by Louis XIV. was for the conver-
sion and instruction of the natives in the religion of France.

Such was the state of the Seminary under the French Crown,
and the Crown of France had the light to see how the
purposes were fulfilled for which the endowment wai

riven. Those purposes were not private, they were ge-
neral public purposes. The object was a great State ob-
ject, the conversion and instruction of the Indians, and
the instruction of the subjects at large of the Fi each Crown
in Canada. So that before the conquest of Canada that
Seminary held this property subject to the duties imposed
upon them by the endowment, and the Crown was em-
powered and bound to see how they discharged those du-
tics. He need not say that when the conquest took place,
the King of England received the province of Canada
exactly under tie circumstances in which the sovereignty
of that province had been enjoyed by France. He was
qu:te sure that none of their Lordships would deny such
was the result of the conquest, and that the right of con-
quest was, that the conquering Sovereign should succeed
to all the power over the conquered province which had
previously been enjoyed by the former Sovereign. It ap-
peared, therefore, that, by the treaty of peace of 1763, by
which the Province of Canada was ceded for ever to the
Crown of Great Britain, that all the rights pre-errinences
and authorities, that belonged to the King of France
before the conquest, were conferred by the conquest to
the King of Great Britain. Their Lordships would
therefore, see that the Seminary, even supposing it had
continued, would have been bound to have dispensed the
vast endowments conferred upon it in the fulfilment of
those great public purposes, the conversion of the Indians
and the instruction of the Christians in that province—they
were bound to do thet under the direction of the Crown.
From the circumstances which then, and for mnny years
af:erwards, exited in the province, they could not be
surprised tat the King of Er gland should be very un-
willing to exercise the full right which he had by con-
quest over the Seminary, and over the province. They
could not be surprised that he did not immediately
insist upon these revenues being dispensed fir
the conversion of Indians and the instruction
of the natives, recording to the doctines of the Church of
E• glairl; yet he hal had strictly that right. He ven-
ture t ro hope that he would he contradicted by more th in
one Noble Lor 1 if he were wrong in that opinion.
Grotius laid it. down " That all the rights which were pos-
sessed by the Sovereign bef .rc the conquest should be held
by the conqueror, unless, at the time of cession, those
rights were yielded on his part." It was the duty of the
Savereign of this country to see that those funds were ap-
plied i i the best mlnner, according to the solemn obliga-
tions by which he was bound, to the conversion cf the In-
dians, and for the education of all his subjects in that part
.of his dominions. He was not going to argue now that
tl.e whole funds should b 3 applied to the education of
his Protestant subjects. If the French Church had
disconnected itself from the Pope of Rame, and after the
exemple cf the Church of England ha I reformed itself,
whilst the ecclesi ts'ie3 of St. Sulpice, in Paris, were in
actual possession of the property in Toe lion, would it not
be the duty cf the King of France to direct the convent
to apply its propc ty to the se vice of the reformed
Church, as had been done in th's country, whe e all the
endowments that belonged to the Church of England
when it was Popish now'telorged to the Church of Eng-
land, being Protestant and Reformed? Was the right of
the King of England less in the can nation of their Lord-
slip=, because he was their own S ,vereign, than they
would concede to the King of France ? Had he not now
the same right over those funds in Canada which the
King of France would have now if the Church in that
country had become teormed, whilst Canada was in his
possession ? If the opposite doctrine were held, the re-
salt would be that the subjection of Canada to this
Prot .start cour,t7 would preserve the funds of
St. Sulpice for the perpcteal sustentation of Po;:ery.
It had been said that this was a question which apper!ed
to their fear,. Within four-and-twenty hours he had been
emi ade 1 of the ea g.'r from excitement if this ordinance
of the Gave nor-General and hi 3 Special Council were re.
yoked. He was not aware that the Governor-General, or
tis Special Ccuned, were entitled, in a very eminent de-
gree, to respect. Ho had had the satisfaction of bearing
tee
mNeontbhaett
hVbeils, Viscount at the head of her Majesty'; Go-
vernmeat that n' instructions had been sent out for the
m
fr'nlivg of this crlinance. There was to be an ordi-
ftroo excitement, rbeuntc thise
o f
herps r t
Majesty's
tyn
,rsd
Ministers.n ce wa3 madeßut with
rocustp the
v:e.vedr werets o f t
ncomje
iu
Mcnt.cefaelje d
old b
tae y
British the
had bed which, at the hazard of t'viir lives,
B it ish
Crown—thatntcre sit
whole of tha'. hod with gent dissatisfaction by the
ordinance was'°'
two gentlemen agLefn tlieemSePrie of fi
ofAmongsttwenty-four
the petitioners against it
were eighteen out
pose ed
by n
hieeoeurrr
weakenemoaif
estthde,s
sAullageiiswtrra:Go se!
and it had alsobeten top
T
posed
vi saot
birtsdet
stood
bnteeraal,sounit(el
ibytofohuirmillbeyn
1-Conoturnecaill:thaltt }tad
e
tthheey battalion Irad
in which y theM
r BritishNl t-
tendency of this ordinance was t
irnoaantrtg, attachment
ceniei
dealtnrtut
and there
coenlremnot
onof thetire part of thPe°Pullr'(,titas%tant 3 that
ts
tuChnrefota;;:n'ini 'nll ei ts dtaahnegemoemr .amf ieslrsni o n as Captain, thereo certainlyvv
now more than ten. 111 r. Nlatthe.vson said his
ts against the ordinance,
were not more than twenty Caeadians,
were more or leand ha berieve?l
they would be glad if it were disallowed, though under the
influence of the priests they supported the Bih. us gave
an instance of this. He said he carried the petition round
hi 3 own ward, and on asking a Catholic, who was
an
active Magistrate, and a most loyal man,—one tehose
loyalty had exposed hint to the threats of the rebels,
and who was a churchwarden of a Catholic church, to sign
it, he said " You know tire situation in which I am placed.
I wish you to go on and prosper. If the petitioners had
asked the Government to allow something to the Seminary

Til F SUN, LONDON, TEJESDA Y, MARCH 16, 1811.

in consideration of their long possession, I would have
signed the petition." Now, though the petitioner did not
call on the Government to do that, he (the Bishop of
Exeter) was prepared to show from documents that they
were willing that the Government should give them a sum
of not less than 8,0001. a year, a sum equal to any they
had received. He thought these authorities were suffi-
cient to outweigh the vague notions which existed in Eng-
land respecting the probatilty of rebellion if this ordi-
nance were not passed. It would seem that the whole
British population considered themselves injured ; and
well they might, when those who had frankly offered to
shed their blood for us we c to be sacrificed for those who
were the occasion of that sacrifice. But this was not the
only authority he had. The fact was, one of tne
greatest and most successful inducements to rebellion
in Canada was, that they wouid get rid of
all seigniorial dues. Such was the effect of this that M.
Neelsom attempte I to re-excite rebellious feelings and re-
sistance to the British Crown, by stating that they would
thus get rid of seignorial dues. And yet they were toad in
that House that if they interfere-I between the Governor
of Canada and the Crown in this instacce, and obtained for
their fellow-Protestants an act of nacre justice, that then,
forsooth ! they would have a fresh rebellion. Expediency
;Ind prudence I wbila they were considering these, they
seemed to forget that there were other considerations which
(acre wont t) have their weight in a British Perliairent.
It'ght and &Ay used to Le considered of some weight in
th. it de iterations. He knew not whether the time was
g ins by, Taut if it were, the chime of common honesty re-
mained to be preferred, and ought e,:rtainly not to be aban-
doned. He (the Bishop of Ex, ter) repeated, t!:e funds about
to be given by this ordinance were not theirs to
They were already give.). They Lelonged to the Con-
lated fund of the province. By the Act of Union,
all revenues at the disposal of the Crown wero surrendered
to the Provincial Legislature. On a former occasion ho
had shown their Lordships that Vais very claim had been
stated by the Commissioners, in 1826, as inclued in the
list go en in exchanga for a chit list,,
i cf those boons
nthe lower province.onsto he
But it would be said the Commis-
sioners said they were equitably entitled to them. `Vi
all respect for the Commissioners, he must say there was
nothing in this. They 1a I acted with perfect consistency,
for what had occurred? In January they offered all the
hereditary and other revenues, and, co ?tontine, this very
claim of the S./minary of St. Sulpice, as part of what
was to I e given in return f_r a civil list. This was refused
by the Legisla•ive Assembly, and t' c consequerca was, of
course, that the Commissioners were at liberty then t
advise a different disposal of this fund. They did se, but
advice was not taken ; and was this the list time they had
he ird of this proposition ? No, it was r epeated. When
Lord Seaton t'rent out as Gore-nor of the Lower Province,
in ore irg the Parliament of the Upper Province, he
told them that he was commanded to submit to them
the surrender of the casual and hereditary revenues of
the Crown, in exchange for a C vil List. Now he (the
Bishop ( f Exe'er) was ready to admit that, i t strictness,
this could not be held to include the revenues cf the lower

province. But four days after the Government sent a
message to the House of Assembly in Upper Canada, re-
latiag to the terms of union detvveen the two provinces, in
which he gave three comidera ions on which the union
was to be based, the second of which was a stipulatien on
the part of the Crown, for a sufficient Civil List. The
legislature of Upper Canada accepted the offer of the Go-
vernment, and engaged to assent to the union of the
Lower Province, on condition that all the revenues of the
Crown should be surrendered.—( Lord Eilenborougla—
" Ne, no; not a word of it.")—( Laughter.) He hoped
the Noble Lord who denied this would show that it was
not the case. It was true that in this despatch nothing
was said about the surrender, but it had been sail before.
But, whether it were so or not, the question was, whether
these revenues of San Sulpice were at the disposal of the
Seminary at the time the Act of Union was passed. Now,
it could not be denied that they were ; but it was said
this ordinance took place before the Act of
Union, and therefore separated these revenues
from the Crown, that he (the Bishop of Exeter) denied,
and therefore he repeated that they were about generously
to give away what had already been disposed of. This
was one of those points on which he congratulated him-
self on having the support of the Noble Duke. He felt
that be had long trespassed on their Lordship's atten-
tion, but there was one ether point of no slight import-
ance, on which it was absolutely necessary that he should
trespass a little longer. It related to the character of that
Corporation by this ordinance if it were permitted to pass.
He spoke with all respect in the presence of two Noble
and Learned Lords of great authority, but he would ven-
ture to say that no body of Popish ecclesiastics could be
constituted an ecclesiastical corporation without violating
the fundamental laws of this country. It was not the
persons, but tho purposes, which constituted an ecclesie
astical corporation. Now, this distinction was to be ap-
plied to an instrument which he had seen, and which pro-
posed to incorporate certain Popish ecclesiastics in the
reign of George the Fourth, and it was signed by Lord
Bathurst, then Secretary for the Colonies. In that case,
it was true
,that the persons were ecclesiastical, and that
they were incorporated, but yet that did not constitute
them an ecclesiastical corporation. There were corporv_
tions in Cambridge and Oxford, of which every member
might be an ecclesiastic, and yet these were lay corpora-
tions, having no ecclesiastical purpose. Ho would not
say whether it would be wise or lawful to constitute such a
corporation
.of Popish ecclesiastics in the dominions
of the Sovereign of England ; but he would say,
that according to the fundamental laws of England, no
Popish corporation for ecclesiastical purposes could, salsa
republica, be constituted. in the British dominions. Tho
statute of 1774, commonly called the statute of Quebec,
and the subsequent Act, called the Constitutional Act,
expressly declared that the law of Elizabeth, which en-
aste.d the supremacy of the Sovereign and esta-
blished the Protestant religion, as that of the State
was re-enacted, in respect to Canada, and was
t, be in full force in that colony, as well as in Eng-
land. In that colony, therefore, it was more presumptuous
than in any other for the representative of the Sovereign
to violate that law. The common law of England re-
quired every ecclesiastical colony to be visited. The Se-
mi-any of St. Sulpice must have a visitor, and that should
be the ordinary of the diocese, who was dr. Strachan, the
Bishop of Quebec. Would Ministers require that Pro-
testant prelate to visit and examine the Popish ecclesias-
tics ? The Noble Marquis (Normanby) must have
spoken unadvisedly when he said those were the Catholic
Bishops of Quebec. It would be a crime to constitute any
Catholic Bishop within the dominions of the British
Crown. The very terms of the Act which gave the Go-
vernor and Council the power to pass ordinances, ex-
pressly forbid them to pass any Act that would alter or
affect the rights spiritual or temporal of the clergy of any
denomination. So that they were expressly precluded,
from this very Act, to prevent the ratification of
any measure that went to papalise a whole pro-
vince of the British empire. He implored their
Lordships to interpose that power which the con-
stitution wisely intrusted to them. If the ordinance
were permitted to become law, it would be a viola-
tion of the fundamental statutes of the country, and a
great national crime would be committed. He agsin im-
plored their Lordships to interpose. The Protest Int cha-
racter, and the Protestant feeling of the country, de-
manded from them that proof of their sympathy; and he
called on them to join him in Lis motion, for an humble
adds ess to her Majesty, praying that she will be graciously
pleased to withheld her assent from the ordinance incorpo-
rating the Seminary of St. Sulpice in Montreal.
The Marquis of NORM ANBY—Bef ,re he proceeded
to offer such observations as he might think it necessary in
answer to the arguments of the Revereed Prelate, he could
not avoid saying a word or two upon the declaration with
which the Reverend Prelate had commenced his speech—.
viz., that but for the manner in which the question
had been met upon the former occasion, when
he introduced it to the notice of the House.
he would not have troubles their Lordships with the mo-
tion he had concluded with. Of course they could not
judge of the intentions of the Rev. Prelate—they could
only judge of him by the words he gave utterance to, and
he spoke ie the hearing cf the Noble Duke, at d one cr
two other N mble Lords who stayed out the debate—he
appealed to them wh other the Rev. Prelat e when he tcok
the unprecedented course of speaking two hours and a
half un the presentation of a petition, did not distinctly
state that upon a future occasion he would move their
Lordships upon the subject, and whether he did not then,
without its being possible for him to know in what way he
would le met or answered, state almost the very words of
the motion with which he had concluded. The Rev. Pre-
late, on that occasion, hid appealed to many Nobie Lords
who were they absent, no one having had the slightest
idea r t the course to be taken by the Rev. Peel ate, but
he (the Marquis of Normanby) did not think he had lost
anything by their absence. The Rev. Prelate said the
ordinance was unconstituti mnal, unwise, unfair, and un-
just to the Provinces generally. He had almost assumed
that it was a project that had never been heerd of
before; but if they would refer to the proceedings of that
Howe only two years ago, they would find that the sub-
ject was not so new as it was reeresented by the Rev.
Pielete. When his lamented friend Lord Durham was
Governor-General of Canada, Mr. C. Bul'er hal repotted
upon th.! subject. That report he had laid on th 9 table of
the House ; and in the June of that same yeerkehe had
laid upon the table the ordinance which had bed r 1 passed
by Sir J. Colborne,
cent einly merely as a project, because
ti en the Special Council had not the power to lass !avg.
Parliament had grante I that power to the Special Coun-
cil ; and it was most important that they should not now
act in direct contradiction to what they had done two
years ago. Their Lordships would inflict singular injus-
tice upon the gentleman composing the Seminary, hest muse
the matter was one of bargain with them. The Rev. Pie-
late said it was an improvident bargain, but he would show
their Lordships that the contrary was the case. From all
the information ho could obt lin, those gentlemen were pc.
culiarly easy as landlords. lie was told that it was their
habit to commute their property for one half its value.
They hal not pressed the is rights to the utmost. did
they disposer f ther funds? Ile hal good authority for
stating that they only expended 100/. a year on them-
selves, and devoted 47 per c mt. of ther income to char:-
table purposei. An institution of such a nature ha thought
ought not to have Leen made the foundation of such a me_
ii"' The Right Rev. Prelate had quoted time statement
of two persons in support of his argutnant. tie had pre-
sieusly furnished him (the Marquis)
with the names of
better if he had t
those parsons, but it would have been •
old
him the facts to which they were to te,tify, as he could
then have made inquiries as to the truth of their state-
ments. Fiona the inquiries he had made of pinions yr:-
nceted with Canada, he did meet belie .o that the Right
Rev. Prelate's informants were at all well informed on the
subject. Oee of them was a person from Greenock, who
had no property in C made, sod who had not lung resided
in the c. 1 oar, and though, yeal:aps, highly re-
apact:ble men, they were neither of them in such
a situation as to wsr. ant the Rant t Reveretel
Pratte to call upon their L rdshipe on their unsupported
authority to coot edict the statements made i a a despatch
from the Governor of Caned:. An old Protestant Cana-
dian barri•t r had assured him (the Marquis of Nor_
mangy) that this was not a quo fon bs tercel Canadian;
sod Laglisti. That the groat bulk of time old English set.
tiers were in favour of the orditianco. He also denied that
the revenues in question were of time immense amount

! which the Right Reverend Prelate supposed, and that
nothing could be more fair or liberal than their conduct in
all pecuniary transactions. Tic Right Reverend Prelate
had said a great deal as to the illegality of the ordinance,
contending that it was contrary to the Act of Supremacy.
He was not qualified to speak as an authority on that sub-
ject, but en that, as well as on other legal points con-
nected with the ordinance. be had, before quitting the Co-
lonial-office in 1839, asked the opinion of the law officers
of the Crown, and they gave it as their opioion that there
was nothing to prevent the Special Council of Canada
from passing such an Act. Since that his Noble Friend
who was now at the head of that department had again
submitted that ordinance to the legal advisers of the Crown,
together with all that had been urged rga'nst its
and their opinion on that point still remained equally
decided in favour of its legality. The Right Reverend
Prelate had alluded to the opinion of Sir J. Stuart. Now,
that Learned Gentleman had, as a member of the Special
Council voted in favour of the ordinance.—( Hear, hear.)
Ti e Right Reverend Prelate had always argued at if
Canada was a Protestant province; but he thought he
could show that yeti )us high author Lies had hell that the
Catholic religion was the established religion of the pro-
vince.—( Hear, Lear.) By the capitulation of Montreal,
dated the sth of September, 1760, it was agreed that all
the communions of priests should be maintained in all their
rights, privileges, and possessions. Now, the Right
Reverend Prelate had stated that one of the condisions of
their foundations was that th ty should devote some por-
iisn of their time to the contusion of the Indians, and
that they had not done so; that, consequently, if the
country had been under the dominion of the King of
France, they would lave forfeited ill it posses.i )!IP, arid
that, consequently, the conquest of Canada arts the su.-
tentation of Popery. Now, the execution of than duty
had never been required of them by the British Govern-
ment, and so far from any neglect being imputable to
them, all her Majesty's Governors had borne testimony to
their faithful dischasge of their duties. He now came
to the Treaty of Paris. The Earl of Halifax had, on tie
t art of the British Government, agreed by that treaty to
the following article. (The Noble Marquis here trans-
lated the article from the treaty, which set forth, that al-
though the King of England engaged to guarantee the
free exercise of the Roman Catholic religion, it did not
follow that he would consent that the bien-jends of the
Ecclesiastical bodies should belong to the subjects of
France, living in France, but that the priests of the Sc-
miaary at Mon,re,l should c sntinue to enjoy their property
without any dependence on the Seminary at Paris.
The Earl of MOUNTCA SHE L doubted the correct-
ness of the translation ; he shout 1 like to hear the original.
The !Marquis of NORM ANBY would read the article
in French the Ti e Noble Marquis then read the ar-
ticle in the orisidal French, when it appeared that his
translati ,n had been a perfectly cm est on.) He appre-
hended the Noble Earl would not find fiat his transit ion
had been incorrect.—( Cheers. ) He now came to the Act
of 1774 ; and when that Act was discussed before their
LartlAi ps, the great Lord Clatham had said that it be-
hoved their Lordships to pay particular attention to the mea-
sure, as it was one which established the Roman Catholic re-
ligion as the religion of a portion of the British dominions.
Some of those precedents were of great advantage in show-
ing the customs of those days. But he would just remind
their Lordships that the effect of the Bill to which he had
referred was not to give to Canada what it had not pro
viously. It was said that by that Bill their Lordships es-
tablished the Roman Catholic religion where it never was
established before, which was not the case. In the good old
days to which the Right Rev. Prelate alluded they only
permitted the practice of their own religion. He (the Mar
quis of Normanby) had hitherto been reading only what
was stated by the opponents of the Bill ; let them now see
what was said by its supporters. The Prime Minister of
" that excellent monarch, who was never to he mentioned
without reverence"—( Laughter)—Lord N,,rth--stated,
after once the city of Quebec was settled in the hands of
this nation, it was a matter of indifference to us what law
or what religion was established the e so long as it made
the people happy. That was the manner is which Lord
North advocated the Bill, and if they considered the cir-
cumstances under which that Minister spoke, they would
perhaps be much surprised. Lord North was the favou-
ri:e Minister of " that excellent sovereign who was never
to be mentioned a ithout reverence," he was not one of these
Ministers whom '6 that excellent sovereign," occasionally,
and with somewhat singular expedition, got rid of if they did
not please him, but he was one whom through good and evil
report and much odium, hemaintained as his first adviser for
many years. Those were the opinions g'ven on both sides,
and that was what they imagined would be the effects of
the Bill which they were passing. That was the colony
which the Right Rev. Prelate, coining a new word, said
they were about to papalize. That papalised ;colony was
so treated by Lord North, by Cul. Barry, and by Lord
Chatham. But he (the Marquis of Normanby) would
now read to their Lordships another paragraph, from the
statement of a man, in whose composition there was
much of the philosopher, and who, however, ho was car-
ried away in moments of excitement was, in monteats of
reflection, generally supposed to be an accurate 'observer--
he meant Mr. Burke. That individual, in a letter to Sir
Hercules Langrisb, with respect to the Irish Roman
Catholics, said, " I voted last session for the establi,hment
of the Church of England, conjointly with the establish-
ment which was made some years before by Act of Par..
Lament, of the Roman Catholic religion in the
conquered country of Canada." Those were the opi-
nions of Burke. Those were the opinions which the
Right Rev. Prelate ought in the course of the recess
to have made himself acquainted with. He (the Marquis
of . Norrnarahy) would next draw their Lordships
attention to the Ecclesiastical Corporation estab-
lished by Lord Bathurst in the year 1821. The
Right Rev.. Prelate said that that was not an ecclesiastical
corporation of Romish priests. How did the Right Rev.
Prelate make out that ? It was composed of the Roman
Catholic Bishops for tho time being, and of his two coal-
jutori. The Right Rev. Prelate did not attempt to draw
any distinction between those t .vo corporations. He
should Lite to know whether the Right Rev. Prelate did
or did not know of that letter of Lord Bathurst creating an
Ecclesiastical Corporation ?
The Bishop of EXETER_I did not know of its ex-
istence.
The Marquis of NORMANBY said that before the
Right Reverend Prelate brought the subject he-
fore their Lordships he ought certainly to havo

inquired whether there Has such a corporation. The
Right Rev. Prelate had addressed their Lordships at
great length upon the statements of the Commissioners,
and ha-I read the statements of one Commissioner in par-
ticular. Now, if had read the protest of his friend upon
this subject, he would have found in the last few lines
these words:—" In Canada, within late years, more than
one Roman Catholic c.illege his been incorporated."—
( Hear, hear.) Now, that was a species of information
which the Right Rev. Prelate ought to have availed him-
self of before ho made the assertion that this was the first
time any Roman Catholic priests had been incorporated.
In the year 1826 Lord Bathurst suggested there should be
an amicablo suit to try the right of the Seminary ; and
under the Colonial administration of Mr. Husksson

him Bishop of Quebec?--( Hear, hear.) What did Par-
liament do—ghat did the Estimates c f the House of
Commons call him ?—(Hear, hear.) Was he not the
Bishop of Qusbcc, aid was he not so called ?—( Hear,
hear.) He really, at the time it was made, thought that
was a most insufficient ground, and if it had come from
less reverend lips—(Laughter)—he should ha e said it
was a most ridiculous ground on which to found a charge
against the Government.—( Cheers ) The Right Rcv.
Prelate bad talked of his (the Marquis of Normanby's)
despatches. The clerks in the office had made a most di-
ligent search, but no despatch had been found, in which
he bad talked at all cf the Bishop of Quebec. —( Hear,
hear.) That despatch might have escaped from the
archives of the Colonial-office; but even if the Right Rev.
Prelate had been right in his f -eta which he was not, he (the
Ma-q. of Normanby ) did not think that lie ought to have been
siegled out for an attack when he would only have done
that which Lord Bathurst had done in the year 1821,
and which evcry successive estimate of the House of
Commons had done. Lord Bathurst, in writing to the
Earl of Dalhousie in 1821, had oely condemned his
taking the title of Archbishop. So much for the Bishop
, of Quebec. But the Right Rev. Prela e Was very apt
to deal in accusations upon very slight and tri iel grounds,
and the Right Rev. Pi elate must give him leave
to say, that when he accused the Ministers of the Crown
of supportiog another religion at the expense of their
own, he made a very serious accusation which was very
ill supported. What the Government really were doing,
sni what he trusted they would persist in doing, was
attempting to give fair, full, and complete opera ion to
the Act which was passed by the Noble Duke opposite,
for the emancipation of the Catholics=.—(Hear, hear.)
Such was the elle ct, such the intention, and such, he
conceived to be the duty of the Government with respect
to that Bill to a hich the Right Rev. Prel etc gave his vi-
gorous opposition at one time, but to which afterwards
he did give, he presumed, his reluctant consent—
( Hear, hear, and laughter.) The Right Rev. Prelate
at that time wielded a pen not a crosier.—( Laughter.)
The Right Rev. Prelate very soon after the pa ;sing of
the Catemlic Emancipaion Act—and be (the Marquis
of Normanby) would not apply to him a pbraie which
he was very apt to apply to her Majesty's Ministers—he
would not say " Quoad hoc, ergo propter hoe," but
certainly he might say, " post hoc," for the Right Rev.
Prelate was ;Ake e I shortly afterwards to give to those
who were at the time Members of their Lordships' House
the advaetage of his presence. —( G e laughter.)
Having gone torough all those subjects, he could not help
saying that when he was called upon to vote that the ordi-
nance was unconstitutional, he must call upon their
Lordships to take into consideration the legality of the
Legislature to which they bad given legality, the previous
income of the Seminary, and the manner in which the
Seminary had been treated by the Crown e. er since th
conquest. He trusted that th it Lordships would not
accede to the motion of the Right Rev. Prekte, that they
would refuse to throw the curse of religious discord into a
community that, whatever might be its errors, whatever
might be the causes which produced civil strife, yet, never-
theless, had been always singularly remarkable for Chris-
tian spirit and peaceful piety. He trusted that their
Lordships would pause before they interfered and advised
her Majesty to withhold her confirmation from the ordi-
nance which was in accordance with general equity, that
they would not do that which would interrupt the growing
prosperity of that colony. He therefore entreated their
Lordships to give a decided negative by a large majority
to the motion of the Right Rev. Prelate.
The Earl of RIPON had listened with great attene
lien to the speech of the Right Rev. Prelate, both that
night and on the previous occasion, when he presented the
petition to the House, but he had not been able to discover
the principle upon which he c died upon the House to in-
terfere and prevent the ordinance from becoming law.—
( Hear, hear.) Judging from the speech of the Right
Rev. Prelate on the presentation of the petition, he would
have supposed that the Rev. Prelate objected upon a
principle, viz., that there ought not to exist in any part of
the Queen's dominions anything that could be urged as
tending to the support of the Roman Catholic religion. But
the Rev. Prelate had himself abandoned that high ground
of principle, for he stated that he was prepared to give
up a certain portion of the sums which, under the ordi-
nance, must fall into their hand,. If he gave up any
part of those sums he gave up the principle.—( Hear.)
But there was one view of the subject which had not been
looked upon, which was, the position of the Sovereign
and Parliament with respect to colonies obtained by con-
quest. If they conquered colonies, and found an estab-
lished religion existing there different from their own,
what were they to do—were they-to extinguish it and
establish their own ? lie said that justice and policy
forbad it.—( Hear, hear.) The policy of England had
always been of a totally different description. Common
sense must necessarily dictate that they could not firat ob-
tain, and then keep, any colony, if they put such condi-
tions upon them us must eagender eternal discord.—
( Hear, hear.) When he was in office he found, that ever
since the conquest, the Seminary had practically exercised
all the powers and authority which it was proposed to give it
by the ordinance, and no one, during that whole period, had
ever set up the principle that, because they were
Roman Catholics, they ought not to have those powers.
The only question was whether there ought to be any
corporation enjoying the tenures of the ci'y of Montreal.
When he was in of he had been obliged to advert to
the proceedings authorised by the Earl of Bathurst, Sir
George Murray, and Mr. Huskisson, and lie found that
not one Government since the conquest had ever attempted
to put their legal right in force, notwithstanding all the
opinions of the Law Officers of the Crown. It was a case in
which was most fit, prudent, nay, he would say, honst, to
make a compromise. It was possible that the parties
might fail in their defence if they had the whole power of
the Crown against them. But the Crown would be placed
in a most invidious position if it pursued its claims against
them. The Rev. Prelate had talked of their committing
a great national crime is establishing a Roman Catholic
Corporation, but he (the Earl of Ripon) would not find
anything to reproach his conscience with in voting against
the Rev. Prelate.
The Duke of WELLINGTON entirely concurred with
the latter part of the speech of the Noble MarquiQ, that what-
ever had been done with the great proportion of the property
stated by some to belong legally to the Crown, and by others
to the Seminary of St. Sulpice, he could never feel other-
wise than that it had been made over to the province of
Canada by the Act of Union—still, although he had
thought that, he had never doubted for one moment that
ample provision must have been made for the equitable
rights upon that property belonging to the Seminary of
St. Sulpice. When he spoke upon the question upon the
previous occasion, he confessed that be was not then
aware of what had passed upon a similar subject while he
was in the Cabinet. He had totally forgotten the trans-
action of 1822. Ho was then in the Cabinet, and must
have been a party to all that was done by the
Earl of Bethune with respect to St. Nicolay. He must
have been aware of that transaction, but he had totally for-
gotten it, and, until he had read the papers upon the sub-
ject, he had had no notion that it was of the nature which
it appeared to be by tine despatch of Lord Bathurst. The
Rev. Prelate had endeavoured to draw a distinction be-

that particular proposition was propounded ; neptiations
were carried on without any rault, but the strict and the

....
legal right had never been givcn up by the Seminary.-
He
could not help asking the Right Rev. R elate whether ha
did nct think that some explanation was due to their Lord-
ships for t'ne manner in which he quoted, on a former occasion,
a despatch if the Noble Earl opposite (Ripon), and of
the Elie which he attempted in the absence of the Noble
Earl to make of his authority, when, from the very docu-
ment in his hand, if he had real one fentence farther, he
must have known that that which he had quoted to their
Lordships had nothing whatever to do with t,:e views he

tween the corporation established by Lord Dalhousie un-
der the directions of Earl Ba hurst, and the corporation
which was to be established by the ordinance under consi.
aeration ; and he lud made it out to be an ecciesimtical
corporation, because it referred to eccloiastical objects
and purposes. He had also endeavoured to make out that
St. Nicolay was not an ecclesiastical corporati,m. Now
in his opinion the one was precisely the same as the other,
and nearly in the same words.—(Cheers.) He must
have been a party to the despatch establishing St. Nicolay,
and he must admit that was an ecclesiastical corporation,
established for Roman Catholic objects, and no others.

had attempted to urge.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Rev.
Prc live, quoting the despatch of his Noble Friend opposite,
re!«! el a pa,sage which ended with thin sentence—
The decision of the que tion r.vour th'e to the Seminary
would involve consequences which every Canadian, what-
ever his national origin or religious persuasion might be,
would alike have re ison to reprobate." Whet' the Right
Rev. Prelate used these words he (the Marquis of Noi-
manby) thought there was something behind, because
even that carefully extracted sentence did not bear out
the inft re.nce he had attempted to draw. If this were a
religious question how would it satisfy those of every re-
ligious persuasion ? But the Right Rev. Prelate broke
off there, and said he was proud to have the authority of
the Noble Lord opposite. The Noble Duke (Wellington)
saw the impression which was being attempted to be
created on that occasion cn the authority of the Noble Earl
in favJur of the petit on, and at once dissented from it ;
but t',e very next sentence was, " Such is the necessity of
haling a great e )mmerci st city upon a feudal tenure".—
(L,ud cries cf " Hear.")
Ti., Bishop of EXETER—Those wc,rds I read.—
(Cries of " Order, order.")

Ile must c mfess there were other transactions and letters
on the same subject, at a much later period, which had
escaped his recollection. Ile was in his Majesty's service
in the years 1834 and 183 k, The Noble Earl (the Eatl
of Aberdeen) who sat by 'him, then adopted the de-
spatch of his Noble Colleague in office (the Earl of
Ripon). There was one remark which he (the Duke of
Wellington) begged to make cn the instructions of his
Noble Friend to the Earl of Amherst, and it was this :
His instructions to the Earl of Amherst referred to a list
of grievances, to the number of ninety-two, which had
been brought forward in the Assembly of Lower Canada;
and, adverting to the despatch a his (the Duke of Wel-
lington's) Noble Friend, the Noble Earl who had just ad-
dressed their Lordships directed the removal of one of
those gri..!vonces. It was impossible that a person who was
privy to the instruction could now say that he could not
consent to the formation of a corperviou of that descrip.
tion on account of e2rtain principles which it was quite
clear wee not applicable, and had not Leer a:iplied to
Canada for a consider-able number of }ears; therefore he
(the Duke of Wellington) certainly felt that he could not.
stand upon th grounds which he had st ited the other
night to their Lordships as the soure, a of his ob-
jection to that ordinance, because of that ordinance he
himself had been, in two or throe instances, a party to the
direction and arrangement ; and it appe :red that esta-
blishments of the kind had been frcqucnt'y made within
the province of Lower Canada. The Right Reverend
Prelate had that night gone at some length into the con-
sideration of the ordinance, with relation to tire prolerty
which had been given to the Seminary .of St. Sulpice,
which amounted in capital, at 6 per cent., to a revenue of
30,0001. a year. (The Noble Duke here referred to the
proceedings of the Commissioner!, to show the exact
amount of the revenue and the expenditure of the Semi-
nary, and the objects for which the grail was made ;
faom which it appeared that education and religious wor-
ship were the main objects of the grant, and the remainder
was to be disposed of as the Governree:A rei.,;lo. sanction.)
Now, really he (the Duke of Wellington) must say that
there could be no reasonable objection against the objects
first set forth. It was for the Noble Lord opposite to
consider in what way he should remove the inconvenience
that would arise if the Act of Parliirrent should
er er-ride the ordinance ; and, taking that view
of t.L.e matter, hr (the Duke of Wel!iagton)
thought that the Right Reverend Prela'e would have

The Marquis of NORMANBY—If the Right R v.
Prelate says he read thoie words, of course I am bound to
believe he did, but I have not the slightest recollection of
having heard,thern, and I attended very closely to what he
said. Ne.ther had my Noble Friends near me any recol-
lection of having heard thern.—(llear.) The Noble
Marquis then went on to say, that there was another extra-
ordinary eircumstaace attending it. There were several
report; of the Right Rev. Prelate's speech. In all the
reports except one, those words were omitted; and, with
respect to that one, he would not then make any observe.-
t;ons, because that Right Rev. Prelate had stated that he
did use those words. At the same time he c mid not
help thinking that the Right Rev. Prelate might have in-
teneed to use those words, but did not, Le:ause, at the end
of the quotsition, in the only one piper that contained the
worth, were an " &e."--(Great laughter, and cries of
" Lear.") N9w, as" &c." was uncommonly like an ex-
trait which a Noble Lord or Right Rev. Prela'e furnished
Ito some reporter after having made his speech.—
(Thu Bishop of Exeter intimated that he did furnish
the extract.) The Right Rev. Pre!..te had stated that he
did use words, yet, as this was a qu.sti in of recollae-
fon, and although the Right Rev. Prelate's rceollecti
might be better than his (the Marquis of Normanby's), yet
recollection was not infallible, and the ROA Rev. Pee-
late might be mi,taken: The Right Rev. Prelate always
sat very near her Majesty's Ministers, he .elected a plaee
very unusual (the corner ( f the table), and her Majesty's
Government were very often interrupted by him is tin ie
communications.—( (fear, hear, and laughter.) But, of
course, if the Right Rev. Prelate made no communicat
of the extract to any reporter__
The Bishop of EXETER —I said • I did.
The Marquis of NORMA NBY would not thm say
another word. It was nov Clear 'II it the Right Rev P. e-
htte's reeolleaian must have failed him, and that his and
his Noble Friend's recoil action were right ; and the Right
Rev. Prelate, though he dad the words written down, did
not use them on that occasion.—(Hear, hea-.)
then, ho came to another point. The Right Rev. Prelate
had made an attack upon his Noble behind him
( herd (Melbourne) wad himself, and had said the present
Governmaat, more thin any other G. vernmcnt that ever
exieed, whatever its intentions might have Leen, its sets all
tended to support the Popish religion at the expensed their
o C. Having, he supposed, never he ird cfthe Act of 1794,0 r
the Quebec Ac', the Right Rev. Prelate had stated
that he (the Margais of Norrnanby) g.,ve to the Rena
Catholic Bishap the title of the Bishop of Quebec, and
had made that a charge against bins. \Thy, did not Lord
Bathurst, in his conunnnicatiJn with the Governor, call

)00—Letter_ to leave the question to iti own difficulties,

He might have thus obtained the object desired, and not
se,k to enhance the difficulties of the matter by dividing
the House upon the goe,tion. By dividing the House he
could not obtain the objects wbieh he sought. The result of
his (the Duke of Wellington's) consideration of the docu-
ments which had been last brought to h's remembrance, was
that ho had determined to give his vote that night against
the proposition made by the Right Rev. Pt elate.
The Bishop of EXETER said that he would first take
notice of the speech of the Noble personage who had just
sat down, and who was entitled to his first a!tention on
every occasion. However disappointed he (the Bishop
of Exeter) was at the vote which the Nuble Duke Lad
announced his intenti ,n of giving, he did not nick to make
the slightest complaint of the inconsistency which
marked that declaration. (The Right RLv. Prehte here
entered into statements to show that no comparison
could be fairly instituted between the Seminaries of St.
Nicolay and St Sulpice, the former of which was, he con-
tended, established for the purposes of genc>ral education,
the teaching of the French, Latin, and English lauguaL;es,
yhdoscphy, mathematic?, &c. The latter fur the pur-
oss!s of spiritual instruction and the cure of souls, and
that, he said, constituted an ecclesiastical corporation.
He (the Bishop of Exeter) would not divide the MUSO on

that night, for by reason of the Noble Duke's declaralia. 91'
such a proceeding would not settle the question.
if
Lords might call for a division when he sat down; bar d
Lc was obliged ta go Lelow the bar of that Howe, an t
alone, he would have no feeling of shame for himself,
to
of regret, for the feeling that would be entertained -i
wards others, who had not accompanied hirn.—(ficar.
The Noble Marquis had referred in a buoyant maaref°'
r---
(Laughter)—to Mr. Burke, Lord Chatham, Lord Holithe
and Lord North, with something of a sneer at George le
Nib
Third.—(" No, no.") He said, " Yes, yes." Tba
Ala-quis had thought fit to sneer at that Sovereign, ju° hep
most of their Lordships rev red, and whom he (tie
of Exeter) especially revered as a moat pi ins and adrahlhe
able monarch.—( !Icor. ) But be bad the authority a e
Noble Marquis himself, and of all who sat on the .aatil,,-f
bench with and of all who bad served the SovcrOga,.;
this country in the same stations sirce the year 1760, "e
the first Royal Instructions were sent out to Caneda•
instructions. and all sub equently rent out, said it ell's tott,
indkpensaLle duty of the Governor, at the same tilac tub-
he consulted the religious f, eiings of the Kin's
jucts, he should not allow the Roman Cathoic to be eea,g,lo
dered the Estal Billed Church, which character belongol,
the Chu-eh of England alone in all his Majosty'i dame/
nines. The Noble Marquis referred him to the artielest.
the
capitulation. But in the answer to the 34th article,
ca,t
claims of the cecleliasties of Sr. Sulpice were refuse
until the lii;•g's pleasure should be known.
The Earl of RADNOR—Read the 32d article.
The Bishop of EXETER said that the 32d article
ferred only to the nuns. Th Noble Earl might shake
head. rew sa
The Earl of RADNOR—Read the 32d article.
urea
The Bishop of EXETER read the article. It sc,c„.4.
to the corm-neuritic-, their constitution, and priviieb-e...
The demand in the 34th article was for a similar i(e.Wel
viz), to St. Sulpice, but it was refused until the
pleasure should be known. The Noble Marquis bad ;e0
from the Report of Sir C. Grey that there d .ere
several Catholic colleges incorporated; and $o
might be, butt to they were lay, not ecclesiastical carp the'
tions. If the Noble Nla,-quis chose to suit his eyes be
distinction, the Noble Viscount ( Melbourne) could neltba
blind to it. [ln explanation of the allusion made bl,faes
Noble Viscount to the report of his speech in th 3 ,:tier
newspape-, the Rev. Prelate was about to road a
from the Reporter for that journal, when be WO ;the
rupted by loud cries of " Order" from all psila,Psk
House, to which, after a lea words from the Earl e.,1 KBfolk, who rose to order, he at length gave wai'illoose,
would not trey ass further on the attention of the - the
but he felt great satisfaction at what had fallen freer
Noble Duke, that the rejection of his motion would
prevent the further consider-4'on of this question. boa
The Doke of WELLINGTON said he had not "sr,
understood by the Rev. Prelate. Ile had 0011%0
gumcnt, although it might be a bad one. He r,ba" as;
that this ordinance was not at this moment law `lll'3„(if
and as it was passed subsequently t 3 the Act of UnlitlPtltig
last year), if it were contrary to anything contained 'a
Act, a remedy would be found.—( Hear.) a die
The Bishop of EXETER hoped that. in that vii- the
Noble Lord near him would consider the subjea!l/410t
same light which he had presented it.—(Cries able
no," from Lord Melbourne ) He only asked the
Viscount to consider whether it was not contrary to j 6".
(No, no.) 00
The Marquis of NORMANBY was sorry tc) "Aerri/e1
the Rev. Prelate of the satisfaction which be had m,e-1301
from the source referred to.—(Hear, and laughter- i.holer
he had already informed the Rev. Prelate that tber.oooo
question was submitted to the law officers of the ce•
and their opinion was decitedly in favour of the ordinsa-ba
—(Hear, hear.) He bad told the Rev. Prelate the his
could not find in the Colonial-office any docuraent,ff, of
in which he styled any person the Catholic Di' tbs
Quebec. He asked the Rev. Prelate to name to bill°
document upon which he founded that charge ? ,
The Bishop of EXETER said, if the Noble 100
had given him notice, be would have brought the
meat down with him. But he had it not with hi'a, ;or
It was, he, believed, a return of the ecclesiasticsl3ol
blishments in Canada, presented by the Noble IVlalluid
1639, in which it was stated that 2,0001. had boa Ps
the salary of the Roman Catholic Bishop of Quebee'r teal
The Marquis of NORMANI3Y said, that eles,a the
annually made to the House of Commons, in w1;e;
"-ibea"
Bishop alluded to had been always so styled by his
N
ormanby's) predecessors since the conquest...-.
laughter on all sides.)
The Bishop of EXETER said the Noble Marquis other
laugh, but he would cause him to laugh upon the, -Ste'
side.—( Renewed laughter.) The document Wail°
gular annual return. belief
The Marquis of NOR MA NBY could net saYWhiet
it was or not, as the Rev. Prelate did not enable,j-c tie°
know anything about it. But the ecclesiastics in
were so styled in all the.rcturns.—( Hoar, hear.) oce
The question was then put and the motion was
tived without a division.

The Houso then Adjourned at Half-past Nino.

- - - - -
T HE MARKETS.

PRICF 11RED.
The Wghest orhe ;read iO the 11ctAroplis 13 9!4-
.1 for the
oaf. Good Bread may be had at 7%d.
OF SEEDS.

e#

Per Cwt. 1 ....0". 0
ikTew EugEsh Red Clover...6os COs St. Fein ............ .. ....... s 18',,s
Old Ditto Ditto —s —s —s Rye Grass .................. 5.. ,S ai
New Foreign Ditto —s 55s 70s Pacey Grass ................. bps 2,
Olt Ditto Ditto —s —s —s Linseed, for feeding... , 601 49.
New White Clover 45s 50s Ms Ditto, for sowing .••••••--ft 466 Os
..... mtA
Old Ditto Ditto —s —s —s!Ditto, for crushir:g ..•• s;tr- 961
new Tre oil .... —s :30s 45s'ilan,, ............. . ......... ...-0 03
Old liitto s 2Os 30s Canary ..................... .
..or,
Tr folium -8 4Se 7081 Per Busliehod to 1; of
English Carraway —s 50s slsWhite Mustard...lls od to/ od
Foreign Ditto —. 46s SOs Brown Ditto ps IC BO
7S6d
Coriander —s Hs ll,,s,Tares

Per Quai

PItICE OF OIL.
Rape Oil, brown, per ton ,
Ditto, refined
Linseed Oil
Lins,:ed Oil Cake at the Mill
Rai e Cake, per ton
PRICE OF TALLOW
Town Tallow .. .£2 11 61
Yellow Russia
White
Soap Ditto 0 0 0
COAL 114
Ships arrived since L
s. d.
Bell, Robson & Co. Hartley 17 6
klolywell Ma n l9 I!
Original Windsor's Pontod 17 9
Smith's I'ontop l6
Walls End Hilda . 0
Walls End Killingworth }0 .2
Walls End Russell's Hetton t 3
Walls End Stewart':!.
Walls End Kelloe
Walls End Adel ,itle 2l
Walls End Larrington Tees .7

Xl5 I°
In°
`0"
1 (per 1000) l4 0
7, SOAP, &c. per 1121 D: ci 18 0
qiNfelting 5tuff............ 0
Ditto
though .................. 0 14 0
Graves ......................... „
I Good Dregs ..................
TAIL KET.
last market day, 21.

0. $
I 6 g
Walls End Evenwooli $
WWAlls End Gordon ...............
ail.: End Seymour flee, 12 I
Walls End St.tHelen .. g
Val s End 'lces ..........n.....
Walls Ent Tees Hetto rk. .....
Walls End Wilton Pa. . jkl 3
Cowper .................. t ..•..... II g
Howard's Netherton ... JO
Newton Main ...............

MARKETS. 141
&IN. to
Barley, Mecklenburgh '45 to TO
Magdeburgh.... i 59 to ;56
---- - to 0.6,
Summer ......... to 144
Oats, Eider ... . ........ 1:35 tow
- Mecklenburg .0.05 to 14,74
-- Holstein ........... ,r 5 to
~40
-- East Friesland... 216 tofo
Pease, Mecklenburg '• :125 to_ jog
Beans ...... . ............... t:5/6
Buck Wheat ......... . ....• t,
Rapeseed, Hanover f 35 t.
Malt ....................... to '-
Tares .......................
CON. toy*
Maranham ................0
Madras ......................
Surats ........................
;Z
Domingo ........... "
EE. 4% t°64
' Domingo .......... ,„,
La Guayra .................
Porto Rico .............. '4l v
1 savannah .................
°
h SB3s. Discount.) .. ts*
Banta, White. ....... .... 5 ilk
Brown ...........••5
Pernambuco, whiten ...r
Brow •
iwn, 5 to ei