The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-27 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

Their HOUSE OF LORDS, Feb. 26.
Lordships met at Five o'clock.
ROYAL COMMISSION.
Destitute
Royal Assent was given by Commi-eien to the
Persoes (Ireland) Bill, when the Lord Chae-
caller, the
11° Earl of Minto, and Lord Campbell sat as
Ylil Commissioners.
PROGRESS OF PUBLIC BUSINESS.
httitied STANLEY rose in accordance with the notice he
given last night to ask a question as to the progress
public business. He then adverted to the state of
es business before their Lordships, or rather the state
tOt, no business, and remarked that they were now in
t 4 si xt week of the session, on,and with the exception f
,t was on the paper for that evening, there was not
`slngle Bill or notice of motion on the books to submit
to their Lsrdahtp. s' consideration, !aid from what he
"WEI learn as to the state of business in the other
it where the estimates were under consideration;e
'he not likely that they would have any for some ee Irish measures were postponed, he understood, till
*ill' Bth of March, in all probability would not be
',:adY to be submitted Ito their Lordships before the 15th
se March. oflle Must say, consideling this state
of '°Bl, that they should have the originationee
tithrespectsreZ
discipline
measures in that House; for
to e. Witting to the improvement of thiletstalnasw.,
and other matters which he co
siee could be discussed in the first place by their Lonrd-
siiP° with more advantage than by the other House.
questions, therefore, he wished to ask were—sst,
ter: ether the Government intended to originate any
h_asures in that House before Easter, and if so, what
.
br?ss measures were, and at what period they would he
eotiseentiefour:arfdp? And, 2,1, whether it was likely thathe
would be sent up
before that period from the
a, 0 arliamn
had :„ alarquis of LANSDOWNE replied that there
wsee7e • more business transacted during the first six
of this session than during the same period last
der34' and by a statement which he had
i
At all last, when
t appeared that there was natio
klllue°l(7rne hiusitlees transacted than in the session
there
en the Noble Lord was in. office,.
Y found tineatr,eo,ste, great obstacles to the introduc
gen of first into their Lordships' House, as it
into
the
the rer course to introduce them int
and bring an nn up in due course to
re• With regard to the amount of businessoue
BillPiha might remark, . that instead of only
there kying passed, as alledged, through all its stages,
Passed had at least been six important measures
aarsay
Parliament commenced—measures necee-
tneYd t°,lneet the condition of the people of Ireland. He.
bus, g eold to say that this was a greater amount of
WoZis than had ever been done during any first sliex
spftt• " a session for a long period of time. I -
be
_IN the State of business generally, he
gtdtt mote
to observe that the reason why
Moused 11" t mule greater progress in the other_
been taken/''lt't the fact, that a great part of the time had
t'etnPorise 413 with the consideration in measures of. a
and the uature to meet the distress of Ireland. This,
wzt 3 discussion of a plan for the extension of rail-
other in Ireland, had done much to retard the
be4_ business before Parliament. It had
usual
to
di_teund necessary at an earlier period than.
itt,e'Oss the financial affairs of the country, as it would
nar,.eeri impossible to decide on the measures neces-f fie:. or Ireland without dealing with the question o
for n.Q• which was preliminary to them. The measures
0r44,e further relief of Ireland. to which the Noble
the gth"d alluded, would most certainly go forward on
to make March, March, as the postponement had takenpinacae.
es,o_ certain amendments which were deemed _
else I,Y for their more efficient working. He begged
the 'l3„ observe that no time would be lost by
roel,„ 'l°l-en:intent in bringing forward other
titen,:relt which they thought the circum-
teem—us of the country required, especially
pen „i l'es for the amendment and improvement of the
feen't 4%1, and the laws which related to the tree -
QO, of criminals. It was the intention of the
the "flaunt to take such steps as would lead to
this reformation of criminals. (Hear,) He trusted
hadeZplanetion would show that the Government
eitdlljglected no opportunity of forwarding the business,
tea "tllO blame was to be r, attributed to them if it was
"°' esivanced as the Noble Lord desired.— (Hear.)
Thi.I3IIOUGHAM thought there was good reason
tlifee (te)baPlitining of the present state of the business in
the;,,°llse- They were constantly complaining, and he..
0+,5.4. they ought to have some redress. He was of
b4:Lon that sufficient use had not been made of the e time
far November and tbe time they were arrtved at,
„that period might have been employed in the pre-
ite``°ll of Bills which were to come under the con.
tOtation of Parliament. With great respect for
Lordships' House, and for the other House of
thtriiitteent, he must yet say that he always looked to
hhe end of the session as the most important part of it;
er,e it seemed from the observation that had just fallen
far the Noble Lord
het.hey were at that moment very
in from the end of sssion. The Noble Lord had
'`'t informed them that a Bill was to be introduced
;4'9, the other House on the Bth of March, and
-°4oily could tell when it might come up to their
rrtlalaip.' House. But there was a dispatch in business,
d" tectstei;, a power of decision, without delaying from
,;"eY, to day, for ten days together, and that might pus;
move the business forward with greater spee . Bu
"e marvelled that more Bills were not introduced into
.their Lordships' House, which would very much expedite
dun eourse of business. As for penalties, why, there was a
other on
eetween penalties and taxes, under which the
Hous would not object to the Bill being intro- i
ill Aced into their Lordship's Rouse ; but so far as that
j.:,,e,114 the Bill might be proceeded with, and the penalty I
Then left blank, could be filled up in the other (lease.
1, e
re was en important subject, which might be
ihi:sat under the consideration of ther Lord-
th ea--he meant the. Criminal Law; but he found
I).Utt Bill had be,en Ter( duced into the other House of
subject.) Yet he was sure that
ttiagrliesnene on
strboLuisda
come under the consideration
clps.^:onnaaltnl.'i.twotees. of their Lorahips. Persons who were
lly connected with the law thought it
l'?°l4ll)(lNfe'si nuander their attention and inquiry with
mope
benefit.coale He had given notice of his intention to
fur Committee of Inquiry on the subject
b a
f): 4, hesitated much whether be ought now to move
I. that Committee, especially after his Noble Friend
r„ .inst intimated that the Government intended intro-
e'etng measures on the subject; he Mt great doubt,
t"refre, whether net ught to press his motion on Slon•
dame Tuesday or o
, of WICKLOW said that complaints at that
rorri°d of the session were very unusual. But, saving
4,,,114t1e arrangement, some of the Bills in the other
Tle,"„see Would have been up to their Lordship's Huus.lle.
for '" were two Irish Bills. lie BI maant that
c,f. grauting a million-and-a-half for the purpose.
It.telProving the lands in Ireland, and another for alter-
that till°lll jo the Poor-law. Now it had been determined
the
t these two Bills sho. uld proceed pari passu through
the other House ; but for that arrangement
d hips, The Bill might have been before their
The reason was evident- When the Noble
th td introduced the Corn Bill last session, he. stated
,0111 that but formed part of a great system of legislation
A in would yet be brought under their Lordships notice.
cotte',4l was brought forward to lend 2,000.0001. to this
pni;"rY, and 1,000,0001. to Ireland. The Bill was
e,41, but it was found that, as regarded Ireland, it
IS'eer be ttlaPpropriate. But a pledge was given by the
too
le Marquis that as the Bill as amended would be
brc "te for Parliament to pass that session, it should be
1,0 4,ght forward in this session. But this was
trentutiloritelent of the Government pledges that a Bill
pas_ g. 500,0004 should go through the House par/
e 0 +u with some other measures. He did not by this
cerweePean to oppose the other measures, but he would
bran Y oPpose the mode at present adopted in the
akll,Fing forward of those measures.
matted° Marquis of LANSDOWNE explained. He
~yl, that a pledge had been given, but it was deemed
and the that these Bills, for the benefit of the landlords
parsedtile employment of the general poor should be
mat at one and the same moment ; again, this Bill
eesentially ditferent from the one which had been
inder the consideration of the House in the last session,
I,ll.ti!tlatich as it provided for the granting of a much
braj eer sue, e see money. It was not intended as a mere
the "age Act, but was proposed for the general good of
e country
after a few wordsfrom I3ft Lord ASHURTON,
The
Lir LORD CHANCELLOR remarked that the Bill
of the Charitable Trusts would be
Lt.s„,ne regulation
At tight forward as
soon as the other measure was in a
Ixtto to allow of its being taken into consideration.
4Vth regard to the Church Discipline Bill, there was
istee difficulty in dealing with it, unless
p'Y had the co-operation of the Right Rer.
relates, and a conference with them with regard to it.
gas still pending. With regard to the measure relating
medbtor and creditor, he had it then under considers-
„l?4, sant he hoped to be able to bring it forward very
vtthord BROUGHAM expressed his dissatisfaction
to the present accommodation of the House of Lords,
". said he would prefer to sit for an even-
huilding itny union workhouse, rather than in that
e had that day the great gratification of
qc„--Lts, over the new houses ; and averse as he was to
th'e'ue architecture, he was bound to say that the taste,
istta'ngenuity, the skill, and the splendour of all he saw,
erel,leaost sufficient to reconcile him to that style of
"itecture. It anything could mitigate his dislike
egbie`' othie architecture, and to the inconvenience
eras ! he felt in the present building, it
he 1. the exterior and interior beauty of all
etas "ad seen that day. It was the most splendid
tetio°l buildings to be seen in any country, and
sitne"d
i d 'e the reateat credit on the architect who had de-
and g
carried it into execution.
ie ust e Marquie of LANSDOWNE had great pleasure
1114 atin g that he had been informed by the architect to
the Noble and Learned Lord had paid such a
re
seente cornplim t that re their Lordships desirous
sstlour • the new te t Easter, it would be
eeo,t lung to tint new ...ease before —aster,
for their reception. Still he did not think it.
titl' be their desire tadjourn before the usual • ion • 0 a J
tem they did not, then would every thing be
ZY their reception immediately on their re-assem-
trer the holidays.—(Cheers.)
4 r %few words front Lord LIROUGIIIIM, expresine
eh!e that unity of design and execution would be
served in the frescoes. the subject dropped.
Lora DUCHY OF LANCASTER.
ttnotbe STANLEY hoped he would be allowed to put
((eight rt question, which was ono to which the Ministry
tight
o° give an answer. About a fortnight ago, a no.
Nuble`raered in the London Gazette appointing three
Laec, Lair
to administer the affairs of the Duchy of
had hard s!r. That was the only notice which Parliament
ths,to; of the transaction. Now, while he admitted
expeoLrevenues of that Duchy, after paying all the
to-1,71;1,1MM into the Privy purse ; still it was usual
I°4l Ilarliaraeat tin annual statement of the re.

ceipts and expenditure. This was a recognition that proved
the L ,gislar.ure had not4iven up all controul in relation
to this revenue. Further, a law efficer, who was sl,O a

member of the Government, was appointed to fill a
high legal office in this Duchy, and to administer its
affairs. These circumstances showed the intimate eon-
' nexion which existed between the Duchy of Lancaster
and the Government, and would lead their Lordships to
suppose that some explanation ought to be given when
any such appointments as those he had referred to took
place. Comparing the duties of the Duchy of Lancaster
with other of the Crown properties, the principal officer
connected with it was of a much higher grade than any
of the other officers connected with the other Crown
properties. The Noble Lord opposite was not a child
—(Laughter) ; he was not a lunatic—(Laughter), and
therefore the Noble Lord was fitted lor the office ; he
required no assistance, and he would therefore be re-
quired to account for the duties of those officers ; what
patronage they would wield ; and what oaths they
would be required to take on accepting those duties.
The public had a right, then, to know, what were the
duties of these Ccminissioners, the, more especially as
these gentlemen were not themselves aware of what those
duties were to be ; what was the patrotage removed
from the Chancellor of the Exchequer?—(Lord Brougham
—None.) Then, perhaps, as his Noble and Learned
Friend suggested, the Chancellor retained the patronage,
and the Commission( rs performed the duties.—(Laugh-
ter.) He certainly thought that the Parliament of the
country had a right to know the reasons which had
prompted this appointment, and he looked to the Noble
Lord for explanation.
Lord C AMPBELL said that no apology was neces-
sary for the question. and he was rather obliged to the
Noble Lord for putting it Some foolish mis-statements
had gone abroad on the subject, and he thought that the
Noble Lord might have spared his friend, (who was an
eminent Protectionist), and who had, it appeared,
told him in private conversation that he was una-
mire of what his duties should be. lie said his
answer as to what was the meaning of this commission
and of this innovation was, that there was no com
mission, there was no innovation. The ancient condi-
tion of the Duchy of Lancaster remained in the state in
which it had been in the time of John O'Gaunt.—
(Laughter.) Ever since, there had been a County Pala-
tine of the Duchy of Lancaster, there had been a Chan
cellor and a Council. The Chancellor upon certain
occasions had been wont to call on the assistance of the
council, and the Chancellor had to do certain judicial
acts and make certain appointments—for example, the
appointment of mavistrates in Lancaster; but on all
these arts the Chancellor acted proprio mote—
' (Laughter). In certain acts he proceeded without the
council, and in certain others he took the advice of his
council. The council consisted of the Vice-Chancellor,
the Recorder-General, the Auditor, and the Attorney-
General ; these acted as the council of the Chancellor
in the management of the property of the Duchy and
the finances of the Duchy. It was found, however,
more convenient that the Chancellor should have the
assistance of those who were more competentio give their
advice in the letting of land and the receiving of rents
of property which, as the Noble Lord knew, was large,
and lay scattered over all England. The Chancellorship
was a political office, and a member of the Cabinet.
The Council had nothing political in their character. The
Councileonsisted of Mr. Horace Twiss, the Vice-Chancel-
lor, a learned Chancery barrister, who, he believed, was of
the Tory party; of Mr. Lockhart, a gentleman eminent
in literature, and a member of the bar; of Colonel Fox,
the Receiver-General; and of Mr. Ellis, his learned
friend on the Northern Circuit, who was Attorney-
General. He (Lord Campbell) admitted that he was
quite ignorant on some of the duties which came before
the Council; perhaps it might be excusable. He remem-
bered hearing that the Noble Lord who sat next
the Noble Lord who had just spoken (we understood it
to be Lord Brougham), had taken his friend, Mr.
Coke, of Norfolk, to see a fine field of green wheat; and
when his Noble Friend, in company with Mr. Coke,
came in sight of the field, he exclaimed, " Oh, what a
fine piece of lavender!"—(Great laughter.) He (Lord
Campbell) admitted that he had not paid great attention
to these studies, and he felt that he laboured under great
disability. His predecessor was more competent for the
task he referred to, but still he felt the need of advice in
the performance of it, and, under the late Government,
the subject had been under consideration for
giving the Chancellor assistance in the manage-
ment of the property and the finances of
the Duchy. That had been recommended by himself,
under his own hand, and had met with the approval of
the Government ; and he had recommended the
persons who had received the approval and sanction of
her Majesty. The persons accordingly had been sworn
in under the usual and immemorial oaths. They had
not succeeded the Chancellor in his office, nor would he
be controlled by their opinion, for by the patent of his
appointment, he was placed beyond their control. But
if the Chancellor were a wise man, he would take the
advice of those who were competent to give it.
He (Lord Campbell) would bow implicitly to
the opinion of such men as Lord Hardwick
and Lord Portman as to the letting of land and such
like. The Noble Lord, who had furnished the
Noble Lord who had just spoken with his
information, had undertaken the examination of the
Bedford level, and to give his advice upon some future
arrangements of it. He (Lord Campbell) would be im-
plicitly guided by it. But in such Acts as the appoint-
ment of magistrates, he would not submit to guidance;
on the other hand, as far as their advice was necessary,
in referrenee to property and finances, the Chancellor
would avail hire eft of it.

Lord BROUGHAM said he felt he was in the position of the
person in one of '!'erence's plays wbo went to consult the
Roman Chancellor, and Alio, after hearing him, said—
•' Incertior multef twin jarndudum. —(Laughter.)
But a more groundless charge than had been made against the
Noble Lord near him, that he had betrayed the confidence of
the Noble Lord, his informant, was never heard. Why, the
Noble Lord had no confidence to betray ; he had asked a ques-
tion of the person apoken of, and that Noble Lord had no confi-
dence to give him. " Why," said that Noble Lord, " I cannot
tell, Ido not know wherefore I was appointed." So there was
no confid.-nce either possessed or betrayed. The Noble Lord
added, that if there was any wisdom in a multitude of counsel-
lors, there would be enough of it in the councillors of the
Duchy of Lancaster ; but, for his part, he was as ignorant
after the explanation of his Noble Friend as he had been
before it.

JOINT-STOCK BANKS (SCOTLAND).
Lord EGLINTON, in moving that an humble address be
presented to her Majesty for copies of the correspondence of the
Scotch bankers with the late and present Governments, relative
to the Bill for regulating joint-stock banks in Scotland and
Ireland, which was passed last session ; and, in particular, the
correspondence of any of the directors of the North British
Bank ; also, for the terms or conditions of an agreement or
arrangement said to have been entered into in favour of the
bank, said that he thought the system of joint stock banking
in Scotland would require no eulogy on his part.
It was with the view of exciting their sympathies at some
future period that he asked for these returns. Amid opposi-
tion of Scottish Members, and remonstrance of Scottish
bankers, the measure of a former session on the subject of
Scotch banking was carried through the other House. with
that rapidity which so often takes place. He was induced to
withdraw his opposition to that Bill, but on the reasons for the
withdrawal of that opposition being known he received a letter
stating that there was not the slightest truth in the report of
the change in the opinion of those parties in Scotland, and by
which he had been induced to withdraw his opposition. He
would not enter into the general subject of the currency, but
he would say that he believed that the greatest misery had been
caused in'the country by the currency Bill.
Lord CLARENDON said he could not agree to the motion
of his Noble Friend, not because there was any objection to
produce the documents in question, but because they did not
exist. He had spoken to his Right Hon. Friend the Chancel-
lor of the Exchequer on this subject, and he could not find that
there had been any written communication with Government
on this subject, though there might have been some oral com-
munication. He could not agree with his Noble Friend oppo-
site in what he had said about the manner in which the mea-
sure to which he referred had been proposed. The Bill
with respect to Scotch Banks, in common with other Bills had
been postponed in consequence of her Majesty's visit to
the Continent, but the late Chancellor of the Exchequer gave
notice of his intention to introduce it the following session.
His Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer
thought it would be right to extend the law that was found to
work well in England, to Scotland, and Ireland. He had, how-
ever, fixed a day to receive a deputation from the parties inte-
rested in the question by whom it had been solicited'', but they had
not thought fit to wait upon him. He thought, therefore, that his
Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer was justi-
fied in the course which he had pursued. He could not un-
derstand how it could have affected the evils which the Noble
Lord had described, because
itnhye,..mjy asuarde
bweansnp
irnoss
tpiet cuttievde: a
nldf
ithneaseinteedvil.sitehatihsteemd: her
for Nalnajest
there was no account to corroborateul
r tohal•ee re ntamteemnte
nht a
nvfe t
hb
ee eNn abcl
e-
LoTrdh.e Earl of RADNOR expressed his satisfaction at the
Noble Lord opposite having brought this matter
who
considered
tiie
before the
est
attention of the House. He was one of those
the banking system in Scotland had been placed on
basis possible, and it was known to have given satisfaction to
all parties. It had been sacrificed merely to carry out a view
of Sir Robert Peel's on the currency. He referred here to
the measure of 1845. The measure of 1846, which grew out
of that, was still worse, and if certain Peers had assisted him
in his opposition to that measure it should never have passed.
When all was carried on uoon principles of free trade he thought
it was unjust to place banking on any other footing.
MEDICAL CHARITIES IN IRELAND.
The Earl of CLANCARTY, in drawing tke attention of the
House to the motion which he had to bring before them, said
that with reference to the Bill which had passed last session,
entitled, " The Medical Relief (Ireland) Bill," he thought
that it had not answered the expectations of its proposers.
The law had two great elements of failure—the want of effi-
ciency and uniformity ; efficiency, because a central superin-
tendence was required, which the law did not give ; and
uniformity, because the taxes for Its support were not propor-
tioned to the circumstances of the parties affected by them.
The poor-law returns gave an affecting account of the number
of industrious poor who crowded the workhouses, and the
feeling in Ireland was, that no amelioration would take place
within an early period, because, although an inquiry into the
operation of the poor-law s) stem was otten promised, the term
inquiry was only associated in their minds with procra-tinatioli.
With these views he had called upon the Noble Marquis oppo-
site and upon the Right lion. the Secretary for Ireland, and
he would only then read the terms of the motion he bad to
submit to the House, which was to know whether it was the
intention of her Majesty's Government to propose, in the pre.
sent session, any measure with respect to the medical relief of
the suffering poor in Ireland, founded on the recommendation
of the report of the Select Committee appointed last session
for inquiry into the subject ; if not, whether it was intended
to propose any other measure for the improvement of medical
charities ?
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE admitted that the subject
to which the Noble Lord had called the attention of the • Go-
vernment was one of the first importance, and although he
could not promise that a Bill upon the subject would be
brought in in the course of the present session, he had no
hesitation in saying that it would receive their best attention.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Feb. 26.
The SPEAKER
NEW to,k the MEMBER.

Mr. MONAHAN, Solicitor-General for Ireland, took
the oaths and his seat for the town of Galway.
SECOND READINGS.
The following 13ills were read a second time, and
ordered to be committed:—

Bolton Improvement.

Cheltenham Waterworks.

liond‘,ll ) Small Debts.
N,-wbury Cemetery.
Northampton and "Banbury Railway.

Norwich -Small Tenements.
Sheffield, Rotherham, and Doncaster Junction Railway
(Masbrough to Doncaster).
Sutton Harbour Improvement.
Swansea Harbour. _ _

Westminster and Lambeth Bridge.
York and North Midland Railway (East Riding Canals

Purchase).
York and North Midland Railway (Knottingley Branch).
York and North Midland Railway (Harrogate Branch,
Boroughbridge, and Knai esborough Extension).
York and Newcastle Railway (Pelaw Tyne Dock, &c.,

Branches).
York and Newcastle and Newcastle and Berwick Rail
ways Amalgamation.
DISTRESS IN IRELAND.
Mr. D. BROW NE presented several petitions from
places in the county of Mayo, praying for mr-re ex-
tended relief to the people of Ireland. One of these
prayed for a grant of fiity millions to relieve the suffer.
tags of the people. Another stated that many of the
Petitioners were only receiving as wages from 3s. to ss.
per week, while oatmeal was selling at 30s. per cwt.
Mr. MACKINNON presented a petition from a place
near Manchester against the Anatomy Bill.
Mr. RICE presented a petition from a place in Kent
against the Poor Removal Act of last session.
Mr. GOULBURN presented a petition from Eaton,
in Cambridgeshire, against the operation of the Anatomy
Bill ; also a petition from West India proprietors, in
favour of the reduction of the duties on colonial rum.
The RIGHT HON. GENTLEMAN also presented a peti-
tion against the differential duty on rum, and praying
that it be admitted at a similar duty to that imposed on
British spirit&
LAW OF SETTLEMENT.

Mr. EVANS presented several petitions, praying fur
an alteration in the present law of settlement.

SCAItdITY OF SHIPPING.

Mr. S. CRAWFORD presented a petition from 800
inhabitants of Birmingham, praying that in the present
scarcity of shipping the Government would allow the
,hip, of the navy to be engagtd i❑ conveying food into
the country. The Hun. Member also presented peti-
tions to the same effect froth several places in Scotland.