The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-11 00:00:00

THE SUN

legislaVass interference In manufacturing enterprise (for since
the year 1832 the hours of labour had been reduced for all
Persona above 13 years of age from 74 to 69 hours, for all
persona under 13 they had been reduced from 74 to 36, and
in every case the best possible results had followed the adop-
tion of the measures.—( Hear.) Looking then at the past,
and relying upon practical experience for the future, they
were,, justified in calling upon the opponents of this Bill to
sne eke out a most irresistible case, to demonstrate by facts
wad figures, which could admit of no dispute or cavil, that
the wages of the workmen would fall in consequence of the
passing of this treasure, which was another of the arguments
used by the opponents of the measure.--( Oh eers. )
But, even this fail of wages were to take place,
it would be in some sort compensated by
giving to 'the workmen facilities for household economy,
and for the mental and moral improvement of r he inmates of
'the cottaise.—( Hear, hear.) The people working in the fac- ,
tories were told that, with the repeal of the corn-laws, the
chief element of their expenses would be materially I
reduced. -- (Hear, hsar.). How those promises had •
been fulfil led, the present prices would abundantly testify.
If the corn -laws were to reduce the food of the people at
least one-t bird, surely they were entitled to have their hours'
of labour relaxed. He was willing to leave this matter to
be decides' by the practical experience of the operatives
themselves, but yet it was a difficult question, and one on
which it would. be difficult for them to deal
with their employers. Fortunately, Lancashire and York-
shire were not exc'aisively populated by manufacturers ;
others lived in there who were competent to judge by their
knowledge of tb:e condition of the operatives. There were
intelligent Dissenting ministers—there were the Dean of
Manchesteae the Vicar of Leeds, the Rector of Brad-
ford, all of whom were competent arbitrators, to
whom he should feel satisfied to leave the decision of the
matter. Now, when they came forward and told them that
for the 'sake of their spiritual health it was necessary to pass
this &al, and when the surgeons in the large towns said it
was necessaev for the improvement of their physical
condition, acid when they and the landed proprie-
tors were unanimously of this opinion, he considered
it was incumbent on the House to comply with their wishes.
lie had beer, entrusted with a letter on the subject from Mr.
Fletcher, th a well-known surgeon of Bury, dated Feb. 7,
1847, which. deserved the serious attention of the House,
which was As follows:—" I have been professionally so much
engaged that I did not know till yesterday that the second
reading of your Factory Bill is fixed for Wednesday next, or
I would have earlier communicated a few statistical facts,
which so strikingly illustrate the effects of the present sys-
tem, especially as regards the unavoidable neglect of
their infer-Ls by mothers employed in the mills, that you
may, perhaps, consider them worth using on that occasion.
They came to my knowledge during an inquiry into the
sanatory condition of different parts of this town, for the
Purpose of giving evidence on an Improvement Bill. Some
Sears before, while preparing a report for the health of
towns commissioners, my attention had been attracted to
the greater mortality especially of infants, in the factory
districts of the town and neighbourhood, compared with
those in which few rains existed. I therefore, on this
occasion, in calculating the average age at death in the
better and worse conditioned localities, carefully dis-
tinguished the factory operatives from the other working
classes. . The result proved the average age attained by the
factory workers and their infants to be somewhat less than
one-half that of the other operatives in the same districts.
—(Hear, hoar.) In order to prevent any doubt as to the
accuracy eV:l:Lent calculations, I may mention that on finding
the age at, dseath, of the factory population in one district so
low as eiglat years, which appeared really incredible, I went
over the !'5 gisters a second time, being assisted by a friend
accustom, to such researches, when, finding the extracts
and cake jiasichs perfeetly correct, an explanation of this re-
nuts' ole result appeared in the fact, that of every 100 deaths
a .ction over 61 are infants under the age of two years,
'Valle of the other operative classes, in the same locality, the
'deaths under two years are a fraction less than 33 in 100. I
give below the average age at death, and the deaths under two
years of factory and other operatives, in three districts,
which, differing materially in their sanatory condition, and
containing a large proportion of factory people, afford a
fair comparison. The first is a town district, extremely ill-
conditioned as regards ventilation, drainage, and cleaning.
In this locality the average age at death of factory operatives
is eight years ; other operatives, fourteen years; deaths of
infants under two years, of factory operatives, 61 1-sth per
cent. ; other e,peratives' 32 3-4ths per cent. In the registra-
tion district of Bury North, exclusive of the above, the
average age at death is, of factory operatives, 94 years; other
other operatives, 19 years ; deaths of infants under two
years, of facto: y operatives, 54 3-stbs per cent. ; other
operatives, 33 1•- 3d per cent. In Woodhill district, lying a
short distance fro me the town, and particularly well situated
as regards the le ealth of its population, the general mortality
of the northern steburb, of which it forms a part, being 1 in'
44 3-10ths, which is, I believe, about the average of all
England, and bet leg in this particular locality 1 in 40, the
cottages of the operatives being also more roomy, better
ventilated, and more cleanly than is generally the
case, we find the average factory age 10 years ;
that of the other- operatives, 214 years ; the deaths of in-
fants under two a Tars, of factory parents, 56 per cent.; other
operatives, 33 per. cent. In risme other districts the disparity
appears even greater,
but the proportion of factory workers
is se small that I do not r
only further to state .onsider the test a fair one. I have
that these calculations are made on an
average of seven yee.i.s,
in these le and include every death that has oc-
curredscalities. They appear calculated to rebut
the assumption , that it is the condition of large towns, and
not the empl'saymeat in factories, which produces the awful
mortality, -particularly of the infant population, he the menu-
facturin 6districts. This, you are well aware, has been
strop', ly maintained by several medical practitioners and
Otl'sera. It was to disprove this fallacy that I endeavoured,
its far as possible, in making these investigations, to &scars
teak the relative effect of the two sources of disease and pre-
'nature mortality, and I am the more especially induced
'to forward you the above extracts from the tables I have
constructed, as Sir George Grey appears to have adopted
an opinion which I am convinced will prove to be founded
ca a hasty and superficial examination of this important
question. From a report which was presented to
the House in 1834 he found that out of 1,000 deaths in Man-
chester, 424 were children under two years of age ; that in
Liverpool the number of children under two years of age, out
of 1,000 deaths, was but 362 ; whilst in London, out of 1,000
deaths, only 308 were infants under that age.
(Hear, hear.) This showed the great want of sanatory
improvements, and that the mortality against these child-
ren would be less if they were taken more care of by their
parents. The subject bad been submitted to them in every
possible way : they had been shown how the homes of
factory workers were left comfortless, in consequence of the
protracted: horses: of labour—how the Saxon mother
refused to be comforted because her children could not par-
take of it-,..(Hear, hear)—but then when one died she
knew OW. it had ceased to suffer from prolonged and severe
toil, arat that it had gone to join the army of innocents in
heav, en.— (Hear, hear.) He would ask the House
Ivisasther a sufficient case had not been made
oat for passing the measure ?—(Hear, hear.) It was
in vain for them to provide parks and athenaeums
'for the recreation and instruction of the people, if they did
not at the same time provide them with a few hours to par-
take of their advantages. They were agreed to the end : it
was the means only that were objectionable; but if he thought
there was a reasonable chance of-an arrangement being come
to between the masters and their labourers be might possibly
alter his opinion, especially if 1,000 manufacturers in Lanca-
shire would sign a bond to reduce their hours within the
limit he thought necessary, and pay down a quarter of a
million as the guarantee that they would fulfil the condi-
tions.—(Hear.) But he should think the acute labourers dupes
if they consented to any arrangement unless they had
ample security that it would be carried out. That House
was not in the habit of waiting until rival steamers in the
Thames had agreed to regulate their speed in the pool, to
adopt measures to compel them to do so, supposing
such a step were necessary ; or until master-
builders agreed to improve the sanatory regula-
tions of the houses they build ; chimney-sweepers not
to use climbing-boys; proprietors of collieries and butties to
prevent the harnessing of naked women.—(Hear, hear.)
They did not stop until the proprietors of slaves in the West
Indies could make some arrangement with their slaves for
. their emancipation; in these and a thousand other instances
they did not want for the parties to come forward, but
. brought the "imperial majesty of the law," to whom all
were subject—the lowest as well as the greatest—
and which has for its object the vindication of the rights of
those ordained by God."—(Hear.) It was all very well for
the Hon. Member for Montrose to say, in accordance with
the doctrines of that school of philosophy to which he belonged
that they ought not to interfere, and to allow the labourers
to remain at the mercy of their employers; but were
kings and legislators to do nothing? If they were not to
interfere, he was at a loss to understand why they bad in-
terfered with various things, and were continuing to interfere.
If the interference proposed by the Bill be not satisfactory,
let them point out to him, if they could, a more advisable, a
more safe, a less objectionable mode of intervention, or which
bad more noble or more glorious reasons for interference.
Unless the factory operatives came before them and declared
that all their past legislation on the subject had been pro-
ductive of the desired good, and that there was no need of
the proposed interference, or that danger would result to
them from it, they were bound to pass the Bill. He ought
almost to apologise for touching this part of the subject
after the eloquent speech of the Honourable Gentleman the
Member for Edinburgh last year.—(Hear, hear.) He was
flad that that city had, by its representative, spoken in
avour of the Bill.—(Hear, hear.) In a late number of the
-Edinburgh Review he found an article, from which he would
read two or three passages which appeared to him " germane
to the matter." Talking of the principle of interference and
the probable consequences to which it led, the reviewer pro-
ceeded in this fashion :—" Once admit the principle that Go-
vernment may rightly exercise such influence—and the usage
of every day sanctions it—and every case seeming to call for
it is argued on its own merits. And so it must be with re-
ference to the limitation of the hours of labour—the most
knotty question of the class now before the public. Its sup-
porters urge that the duration of labour which men engage to
undergo is too much for their bodily and mental health.
"They say that even high wages thus acquired bring little of
• blessing with them to men, spiritless from over exertion, in
homes rendered squalid and uncomfortable, because there is
neither time nor inclination left for the exercise of house-
:" hold economy. They say that hasty marriages, early deaths,
constant improvidence, brutish and irregular habits of living
are the necessary concomitants of a state of things in which
the whole six days are devoted to toil. They even affirm
that man deteriorates with these evil influences, not only in
his higher qualities, but also in his inferior capacity as a
machine for production, and that, with
shorter labour, he
might do more or better work. The time is surely past for
answering these arguments with mere assertions of general
'
doctrine. Fair reasons must be givenfor supposing that the
point has been already reached (some point there evidently
must be) at which further interference would do more harm
by diminishing the productiveness of the fund
i i
for the main-
tenance 'of labour than it could do good by ts nfluenee
on
the character of the labourer; and since every step which
the Legislature has taken in the same direction has been
met by similar objections and denunciations, none of which
have yet been realised, the burden of proof seems to be
rather on the opponents than the supporters of further re-
form." He (Lord J. Manners) hoped he bad stated the
case fairly, and that he had said nothing to irritate or
wound any person in the course of his observations. The
Honourable Gentleman talked of Russia, and Germany,
and America, but since 1839 no person under sixteen years
of age, in Germany or Prussia, was allowed to work more
than ten hours.—( Hear.) Throughout Prussia the average
hours of work of all classes was 11 ; and then the case in
America to which he referred was not a good example in
favour of his argument, as the committee came to
the opinion they did owing to the pressure
of circumstances which could not be controlled.—(Hear.)
What country entered most into competition with us. Was it
not America? They compelled the Americans, against their
Rills, to employ their labourers longer titan they desired, by
enforcing their competition. He considered that the
statements which he had taken the liberty to
read must satisfy every gentleman that their
foeign trade had not ,uffet ed fiorit a reduction
in the hours of labour, arid no case had becu made oat to
84°W that their foreign trade would coffer. Ile would there-
fore sabnlit t 11.1; th. tio,- l nr tor the sake of
Working men, and for the sake ot the working women of the
north of England, and also for the sake of the master menu-
fecturers themselves, that this great question should be finally

set at rest. He would ask that House of Commons was it
prepared to throw back to another Parliament the settle-
ment of the question which had enlisted in its favour the affec-
tions of the working men and women—which came to them
supported by the opinions of the clergy, the medical profession,
and all the enlightened and impartial, which was based upon the
experience of the past, and which app9aled to past results
for future beneficial effects? Would the House of Commons
reject such a measure as the present, because some
Honourable Gentlemen are pleasei to avert that
it does not altogether steer with their notions of
political economy? He trusted not; but should it
be so, and should the House come to a conclusion
advers7e to the second reading of the Bill, the Gentlemen on
his side of the House would retire from the contest
undismayed and undeterred, cheered and encouraged
by the reflection that they had done their duty,
and that the Tory gentlemen of England had maintained
their historical position—(Laughter)—and had, consistently
with it, fought the battle of the poor against the rich, of
their poorer fellow-subjects against the mighty and the
strong. —( Hear, hear.) He trusted that the Bill
would pass into a law, and that this protracted
struggle would now be terminated ; and if such
was the case, he could assure the House the measure would
be received by a grateful and loyal people amidst the accla-
mations of millions.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that if
the Noble Lord had abstained from those allusions which
he had deprecated in the commencement of his speech, he
(the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would not have addressed
the House. He had been willing to believe that the question
might have been discussed without any party feeling being
expressed. And if the Noble Lord did take credit for his
party, he would surely allow him to claim, for the Gentle-
men with whom he acted, the merit of a measure which
gave to the mass of the people the main article of
subsistence at the cheapest possible rate. He did not wish to
pursue the subject further, or to say much upon the present
question, which had been so repeatedly before the House. On
the last occasion that the Bill was before the House, it was
opposed by the Governmeut as a Government measure.
His Noble Friend near him, and the Right Hon. Baronet
near him, would support the measure under certain modifica-
tions, but he supported the same opinion upon the
present as upon former occasions. And he considered
himself bound to geed up and declare himself, so
that the question might not go forth with the
weight of Government authority. He was as much a friend
to the poor man as any Gentleman in that House, and if
he were disposed to overlook the immense interests which
were involved, and to consult those only of the working man,
he would not give his consent to such a measure,
as he believed it would be most injurious in its results. He
had no hesitation in granting a limitation to the hours of
labour for children, but he would oppose any interference
with those of adults. By such a measure they would take
away one-sixth part of the earnings of the labourer.
By diminishing the hours for labour they would increase
the coat of production, and that cost would either fall upon
the profits of the manufacturer or the wages of the artizan.
He would take the cases of the different mills. In the first
mill all the operatives signed in favour of long hours; in the
second mill, 169 signed in favour of long hours, and 75
against it ; in the third, 59 only signed for long hours ; and al-
though an announcement was made by the masters, that in
the month of October following they should commence
working short time, before that day of working short time
came the workmen sent a deputation to the owners request-
ing that they should work for long hours. In the fourth
mill it was agreed also to work for long hours;
for in consequence of working short hours the wages of the
people would have been reduced. In one mill many of the
operatives were so anxious to earn high wages, that they
continued working at tea time when their hours were re-
duced. These parties worked by piece work, and in their
anxiety: they worked during the half-hour allotted for tea,
thus working the same time as before, only in a smaller
compass. In these instances the experiment had been
fairly tried, and the question had been fairly put
to the workmen, and they preferred long hours
with high wages. If any of the operatives were anxious for.
short hours it was in the full belief, and in which belief they
would be disappointed, that they would continue to re Tire
the same amount of wages. In another mill which he would
mention 400 hands all signed in favour of long hours, and
in another a majority of 50, in a third a majority of 40, in a
fourth a majority of 50, and in a fifth a majority of 103,
signed in favour of long hours. In a sixth mill 2r6 signed
for long hours, and 125 against them. It was
his firm belief, that long hours were preferred by
the workmen, as it was their conviction that a reduc-
tion of the time of work would be followed by a reduction
of wages, and they were told that they did not consider the
interest of the workmen when they demurred to a measure
which would inflict an injury. He would, therefore, by no
means accede to the request of the workmen, even if they
were in favour of this measure much more generally than
he believed them to be. He was really so little able to ad-
dress the House, that he would not venture to make
many further remarks. The question concerned
not only the interest of the artizans in the
mills, the interest of the manufacturers, and the
large interests of all persons dependent on the cotton
mills, and of all dependent on the production of the raw ma-
terial consumed in the mills, and of all persons who were en-
gaged in the preparation of the material: it affected also all
those employed in the after processes, and if they reduced
the raw material consumed in the mills, and there became in
consequence a deficiency in the production of the manufactured
produce, the various stages it had to go through subsequently
they would affect the interest, not only of the manufacturers
themselves, but the interest of large bodies of men on either
side, who had no opportunity of expressing their
opinions, but whose interest, nevertheless, was ma-
terially injured. He thought that these were con-
siderations of vast importance, which ought not to
be left out of the question. He had taken it upon the nar-
rowest grounds—those grounds upon which they generally
agreed, viz., that the interest of the workmen was materially
affected, and it was upon those grounds that he felt it to be
his duty to oppose the measure.
The Marquis of GRANBY said that the patient endurance
of the operatives, and at the same time the conciliating tone
they adopted towards their masters, would naturally cause a
desire to grant their wish. The Right Hon. the Chancellor
of the Exchequer had said that the wages of the opera-
tives would be reduced. He was ready to admit that,
if they reduced the number of hours the operative
had to work, the master manufacturers would find it neces-
sary to make up the deficiency by employing more hands.
He thought, likewise, that if they did employ more
hands, the number of workpeople, as an inevitable conse-
quence of the principle of competition between the masters
would be benefited. He thought that this measure would be
conferring a great boon on the operatives in the manufacturing
districts, and it would not at the same time materially re-
duce their wages. He: was for acme time per-
plexed by the argument, that if they did not
reduce the wages there would be no ether
means of raising the same quantity of manufactured produce
as they did at present. He thought that with regard to the
women who were now labouring twelve hours per day in
those factories, the reduction of their hours of labour would
not be followed by so material a reduction in the produce
as was anticipated. The labour and wages would be more
equally distributed over the surface of the manufacturing
population, who would thereby be materially benefited. On
these grounds he should give his support to the Bill.
Dr. BOWRING said that he acknowledged the philan-
thropy of the Noble Lord, but it would net be what was called
philanthropy to suppport that which would bring misfortune
upon the labouring community. The discussion was one
which should be entered upon free from all prejudice, and
with minds inaccessible to all facts likely to prejudice the
judgment. He did not approve of the present measure, for
he felt convinced that it would not be of any practical
utility to the poor.—(Hear, hear.) He had heard
one of the principal manufacturers in the borough
he had the honour to represent offer to his workmen
to engage them for eleven hours a day, but he did not
attempt to disguise from them what the result of the altera-
tion would be. He told them that it they did not produce the
same amount of work as in the twelve hours he could
not be expected to pay them the same amount of wages.
He (Dr. Bowring) understood that a large body of the most
influential, the most intelligent, and the most wealthy manu-
facturers had been testing the consequences of the Bill should
it become the law of the land, and they all agreed on this
point, that it would occasion a general reduction in the
value of produce in the cotton manufactures. He
spoke not of the silk nor of the flax manufacture, but confined
his attention to cotton alone, and the return showed a di-
minution in the value of production to the extent of 12i per
cent. Now he might just infirm Hon. Members that the
value of the cotton manufactured in this country exceeded
30,000,000/. ; the number of bales required for working up
amounted to a million and a half, representing in value
15,000,000/. sterling, and before it left the manufactory the
united cost of labour and capital would increase the sum to
30,000,000/. sterling. The statement added, as the result of
a limitation of the hours of labour, that the annual loss
would be from 1,800,000/. to 2,000,0001. sterling. Now he
would inquire on whom this logs would fall. It ap-
peared to him that it could only be borne by one of
three parties. The first was the consumer, and perhaps
it might be more generally distributed in this way at the
least amount of individual sacrifice; but the question was
would the consumer pay this loss—would they rest con-
tented with the extra price which would be charged them.
They had already, by their measures of last year, taught
the people of the country that the only true principle was to
buy in the cheapest and sell in the dearest market. They had
decided that they were entitled to the benefits of that
principle, and the people had a right to require that
they should give effect to it.—(Hear.) The consumers
therefore would pay no portion of the 2,000,0001. sterling.
But they they might say, e The manufacturers are gorged
with enormous profits, the manufacturers must pay, and
they are affluent and successful men, wrest, therefore,
from them a portion of their ill-gotten gains." But was
it the fact that the gains of the master manufac-
turers were so large as to enable them to continue
manufacturing, when they by their legislation en-
acted from them an amount of 2,000,000/. sterling
annually. It was not likely they would do so,
and therefore after all the loss would fall upon the opera-
tives themselves. The Hon. and Learned Member then
proceeded to show by the evidence of Mr. Gregg
that the profits of the manufacturer, after deducting
the 5 per cent. interest on his money. did not exceed
21,4
per cent. If the consumer and the capitalist would
not pay, the burden must fall on the labour-
ing population, and thus, instead of granting a
boon, the House would, by passing this measure,
take away from them the means of education and the
ability to procure the comforts of existence. The workmen
were, in effect, to be told that one-sixth of their earnings
be to
to be withdrawn, and however willing they might
to work for the extra hour, the manufacturers
would have no power to accede to their wishes
by this enactment
n
the Government. He (Dr. Bow•
ring) had
duringm oh. of
is whole lifetime been the advocate
of the working he had ever sought to obtain for him
an influence in that
his House of which he was as yet de-
prived;
sympathiesit waswer because
enlisted on his side, and
it was for that reason,
he thought the present
measure was calculated to lower his
er condition that he would
oppose the further progress of it.
Mr. P. HOWARD, in rising to
support
that he would not detain the house with
the measure said
observations. He could perceive thate they any lengthened
o th •
a division, and were desirous of
testing the question by he should
therefore, not trespass for any
time n
their attention.
The House had already seen that
arrange-
ment between the employers and the
lwas out of the question, and it was therefore necessary for
Government and that House to legislate Zia" the
subject. He had hoped
.that the manufacturerse
of 'England would have copied the example of the
agricultural party, who make a great sacrifice for the good of
their country—(Laughter)—and he might yet ask them to
make some little sacrifice, to offer some tribute on the altar
of their country. He would give his most cordial support
to the second reading of the Bill.
Mr. MUNTZ took the trouble to go to Manchester to sa-
tisfy himself of the position of the working classes
and the manufacturers, and the result of his in-
spection was. that all the changes which had been made
were entirely t,i, the benefit of the manufacturers, and not for
the eeirieek:et --."(lieere.) The aft,?retion hi the spfial
the machinery, and the number of staueles had been M-
Icreased threefold, and the quantity of work done
was of course double. Though the manual labour