The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-16 00:00:00

to the result of the measure upon the present Government,
he would not be a party, by any vote, to overturn that Go-
vernment, or lead to the formation of a new one.—( Hear.)
He was in favour of a combined system of railways in Ireland.
under the management of the State. This might expose hive
to some unpopularity in Ireland, but he considered it was an
advisable suggestion, and he hoped to see the
before long promoting works of this kind. I t.s
he could not vote for the second reading of thisßill,. .
he believed it would impede the Government.
.in,_tnose
measures which they had brought forward so benehmendy for
the pnrpose of immediately relieving the distresses of Ireland.
.He sincerely thanked the Noble Lard for the interest he felt in
the welfare of Ireland at a period when she was afflicted by a
great and deep calamity,
and when she was deserted
byher
natural leaders. He had spoken out like a country gentleman
of England ; but, however he might admire the courage of the
Noble Lord to assume the Government if it were offered
to him, he could not, consistently with his duty, vote for the
second reading of the Bill.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH said the argument of the Hon.
Member for Kilkenny (Mr. J. O'Connell) was this :—" Let
there be the largest possible expenditure of money—spend
without measure, spend without stint—give us all the money
_you possibly can." Other Irish Members adopted a similar
.argument. Now he sincerely pitied them, and meant no dis-
respect to them by saying so. Words could not express, minds
could not conceive, the scenes they bad witnessed in Ireland—
famine, death, worse than-death, the agony of impending death
from famine, from the actual want of food. He did not
wonder, therefore, that they were glad to adopt any measure
which was at all likely to alleviate the distresses of their coun-
trymen—even the measure of the Noble Lord ; but it was the
duty of English Members to exercise their calm judgment on
the question. He believed that the people of England
were ready to make any sacrifice to save the
people of Ireland from starvation, and with that view a mea-
sure had been already passed for affording immediate relief to
the destitute poor of that country. When myriads arc suffer-
ing from hunger it was impossible to scan too narrowly a mea-
sure which was required in actual operation without delay ;
let that measure alone would involve the expenditure of mil-
-lions of money, which the people of this country would be
compelled to pay. But the adoption of measures were neces-
Wary for the purpose of placing the burdens of Irish distress on
the shoulders of those who ought to bear it. Now, he objected
to the scheme of the Noble Lord because it would not accom-
plish either of those two objects. He objected to it, likewise,
because, looking at it in its most favourable light, it would not
accomplish its object for which he said he brought it forward—
namely, the relief of the destitute poor. No more than one-
third would be employed in the payment of wages—that labour
must be chiefly performed by skilled and able-bodied men, so that
a considerable number would be imported from this country. Then
railways would not be made through the destitute and ill-popu-
lated parts of the country, but through the north and the west ;
Consequently labour would be created in those places where
there was less need of it; and even there the destitute poor
would suffer, because the labour could only be performed by
the vigorous part of the people, and they alone would obtain
employment. Thus coalition and riots would ensue. It would
only benefit those in the immediate neighbourhood of the rail-
ways, and that benefit would be inconsiderable compared
with the amount which would be spent. The landlords through
whose property the line would pass would be the first
gainers; secondly, the shareholders, whose shares would be-
come as profitable as the best English securities; and, lastly,
the mortgagees, who would take a considerable portion of the
.money. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had, he thought,
characterised the Bill as a " Bill for the benefit of destitute
;shareholders." Most English railways were constructed with
capital raised en their intrinsic merits ; but if Government
•were in a position to furnish money to shareholders to construct
lines which their intrinsic merits could not raise, he
saw no reason why the money should not be devoted
to the construction of English instead of Irish railways.
Every farthing spent in making bad railways in Ireland
would be so much deducted from the making of good railways
-in England. He begged the Noble Lord and his party to con-
.aider that, however much they were bound to afford relief to
Ireland, they were bound to do justice to their constituents,
and not to vote fur the spending of money on such an useless
project as the one before the House. The Government hail
ever found gt eat want of enterprise and energy amongst those who
were in a position to carry out works likely to be beneficial to
the country ; there was a want of self-reliance among the
.people.—( Hear, hear. ) It was strange that they had
'read of an abundant harvest —of fields covered with
grain—yet when but a portion of that crop was deficient they
were plunged at once into all the evils of a famine, without
any means of support. A stroneer poor-law, which would
compel the owners of the soil of that country to relieve their
own poor, was required; and until such a measure was passed
he considered that little good would accrue to Ireland.
Mr. DISRAELI said, that in occupying the attention of the
House he hoped to address himself to the immediate subject
under consideration, and should not attempt, like some
other Iron. Members, to diverge to other topics—
ao doubt of paramount importance, bun whether right
or wrong, just or unjust, were not the question they
.had now to consider.—( Hear, hear. ) The impression which
had bsen mule on the House by the address of the Hon. :Mem-
ber the Recorder for Dublin, rendered it necessary that he
(Mr. Disraeli) should advert to the feeling which he had ex-
pressed, and the position in which they, CM that side of the
• House, were placed. The Right Hon. Gentleman had ex-
pressed himself, that while he gave the Noble Lord the Member
for Lynn great credit for the sentiments he had expressed, and
ethe measure he bad introduced, still he felt it his duty to vote
• contrary to it.—(Hear, hear.) He told them that because
• the Government depended on this vote he must record his
. suffrage contrary to the proposition of the Noble Lord the
• Member for Lynn.—( Hear, hear.) This was the position of
.• the Right Hon. Member, and this led them to the consideration
-... of the circumstances of the question now before them.
oHe could easily understand why a member from a party con-
senexion might not only b. induced to be silent on a particular
e question or vote against a particular measure that they might
think abstractedly beneficial to the country, if by so doing he
i expected that party to ride into power. Ile could understand
-a Member so situated supporting his friends even when the
`I. policy might be considered antagonistic to the welfare of the
_country. That, however, was not the position of the Right
e Hon. Gentleman the Member for the University of Dublin.
e lie still was, and he (Mr. Disraeli) hoped he would remain
with the political party lie originally began with, though
: fighting against considerable odds. Ile would now address
himself to the consideration of the present position which the
.party with whom he acted occupied. This measure had sug-
i, gested itself to his Noble Friend the Member for Lynn some
considerable time ago. It had been long matured, and well
digested, and so constituted, as to be peculiarly adapted to the
e circumstances of Ireland, and for the elevation of the condition
-.of the people of that country. In the Queen's Speech the pro-
e position for immediate relief for the people of Ireland was
• mooted; and on the first day of the session his Noble Friend
pressed on the Noble Lord at the head of her Majesty's
Goverusnent this measure; but as the Government, it was
--stated, had prepared measures for the emergency,
':.though his Noble Friend had matured for many
e-months this scheme of railways fel. Ireland, he
Sedid not further press it then. What had since then been the
-:eonduct of the Noble Lord ? It would have been easy for his
.s.Noble Friend, and those with whom he acted, mere than
e once to have opposed the measures of the Governs
einent. But coisidering the extraordinary circumstances under
s which her Majesty's Ministers came into power, and the exist-
seing emergency of the country, they thought it would be un-
s, worthy of them in the circumstances of the Government to
eeeppose it in any petty spirit.—( Hear, hear.) It would have
e,been easy for them to have opposed the Labour Act, but M-
e :stead of this, all they did was to consider whether the gentle-
enmen occupying the places of her Majesty's Government, had
warted with ability, energy, and zeal in the circumstances under
S ,which they were placed. They (the protectionists) believed
eethat they had done so, that they had acted with ability, energy,
„and seal, and that in their candid opinion no body
s, of men, under the circumstances, could have acted better in
eethese respects.—( Hear, hear.) But the Noble Lord un the
0 occasion he (Mr. Disraeli) had referred to, on the opening of
j; the session, said he was ready to support the measure of her
ss Majesty's Government ; but that if he found them defective in
e•their details, it' they did not sufficiently meet the case, he would
-•.be prepared to bring forward another measure, not in an an•
e-tagonistic, but in an ancillary spirit.--( Hear, hear.) These
',were not the words of lip rhetoric, but every one knew, whether
-.from public explanations or from private conversation, that
ej,this was the case. But now they were told that the exist-
ieence of the Government depended on the rejection of the
o present measure ; to that he (Mr. Disraeli) would answer,
e why did not the Noble Lord at the head of the Government,
c when his Noble Friend made the exposition of his plan to the
e House, why did lie not then state this to be the case ? That
s; was the time fur hint to say that he could not accept the
.::measure, and that, if it was carried, he would divest himself of
. the responsibility of carrying it out, and throw it on those who
. •supperted it and the Noble Lord who brought it in. That would
:.have been the proper course to take. But when he allowed
I the Bill to be laid on the table of the House, and when he
-lad given his leave to introduce it, then his Noble Friend, as a
filnan of honour, was bound to carry it through to its last stage,
.. and to say that whatever might be the result no conclusion
e: could be drawn reflecting on his conduct or character
._ ;In what he had done.—( Hear, hear.) This was the
.:real view of tie ease. The Noble Lord the Member
e, for Lynn having made an exposition of his plan, and the Noble
~ Lord at the head of the Government having given' his quasi
sanction to its introduction, they were not to be told thatf the'
Ministry was in danger as an inilueement to abandon the
scheme. If an adverse vote against the Government threat-
ened its existence, it was what often had been done befo.
without any serious result. Ile saw Hon. Gentlemen on both
t. , sides of the House, who, when they entered Parliament, were
, told that the Government would not last, as they were going
out on the Irish question. ( Hear, hear.) They
. did not, however, go out then. Two years after the
leader of the roost powerful opposition that had ever ex-
isted in this country declared that Ireland was his grea'est
difficulty. 'Chat party succeeded to power, and to:d them and
the country that they were the only party that could govern
Ireland. But the question now before th . House was not the
- government of Ireland, the question of the last ten years, but
it was, how they were to feed the Irish people.—( Hear.) And
this was the best time to discuss this question, when no passions
or prejudices were raised up with its consideration. If the ques-
tion was whether Popery should be increased or diminished,
whether municipal powers should be extended or abolished,
it might admit of some hesitation and discussion ; but when
they found a country like Ireland, with a population the
- densest in Europe, as it regarded arable land denser than
China, and while the capital of that country was only twenty
shillings or thirty shillings a head—while that of sterile Scot-
land was sixteen pounds a head, the present measure became
one of paramount importance. ( Hear, hear.) That
was the result that had been drawn by the people of
England during the last four or five years. He believed that
it was the conviction now of the great body of the people of
this country, without reference to creed, class, or party, that
no hallucination has been greater than the supposition that
this was a political panacea which could cure the griefs of Ire-
land. The Noble Lord, iti his general address on the subject of
Ireland some time ago, stated that the state of Ireland was a
famine of the 13th century with the population of the 19th.
No doubt that was a striking and picturesque ‘hescriptien, but
• he (inset say that it was a fallacious one. In the famines of the
- middle ages, and the feudal famines, they understood their
ulsreesioanndlmthigebirtcaomnidseaqupeornoclelesl,. but he believed that the famine
causes
in countries and times less re-
mote,
and he was sorry to in the dominions of her Majesty.
'f here was another portion of heri Majesty's dominions .where
the population was almost
,ecenlse, where poverty was almost
as inteese, and where the e were del endent upon the
lowest sources of human subslieotep
al-
lusted to, and when the rice faileld'ee. It was India that he al-
potato failed in
Ireland, they found the state of affairs very the potato
It was a
visitation of Providence, for these ca!amit'as
the Most Divine. That truth none e,a2ishicarne from 1
dispute ; 1
but would it do for that House to forget to use the sorry phrase i
of a ejsitation of Providcrice to conc,al its own remissness in
that respect, because what had occurred had been foretold by
great statesmen, and \
by men of most experience in Ireland,
Lord Wellesley told then), twenty-hive years age, that the 1
gradual degeneration of the seed of the potato would ulte. i
mately destroy Ireland unless they y
arrested its course. They
would find, in the dispatches and
public• I
long foreseen
mond, the same opinion, and anything occurrine' papers of Mr. Drum --
in Ireland,
thers,\thisi lit faCiOliq inevitable result of events on
_ by those. who kaew-Ireland best, ahned wGeorveerchampaebnite
thoefafsourrmesintgo
ilizan Opinion upori\ie. They had
.t
;:,,.:hileviate this stawilartairg, arid it was not for him to criticise
, duo CmaiimienV4 s; he was their supporter, and, as he)
',.? - - hoierdller 13110*-iii4lpla never he did support, time earnest su
Lynn -
e... porter of these nmiasitts . He would, however, venture to l .
re-
mark, that the nikaatAs of the Noble Member for nas

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