The Sun.
London, England, 1815-02-28 00:00:00

REPORT ON THE CORN LAWS

Mr. PinaGDEN brought ill) the of the
.Cottunitteeoti the llesolutiom relative to the Corn
Laws.

Mr. Biutc, AY said, it was with considerable
reluctance -he stood tip to oppose a string. of Re-
solutions which had been sanctioned by solarge
a majority. From the short- time he had sat in
the House, it might perhaps be deemed presump-
tuous in him to differ so directly in opinion from
so Many Gentlemen of much longer parliamentary
experience than he had to boast; but he felt him-
self imperiously called on by what he deemed his
duty, to enter his serious protest against these
Resolutions, and the principle on which they
were founded. If he understood that principle
,right, the landholders now came forward and
claimed from the House and the Country a Com-
pensation for the capital which they had invested
in the improvement of their own estates. Surely,
by the same rule, the manufacturers had an equal
right to conic to the House, and ask a compensa-
tion for the capital they had expended in enlarg-
iug their several manufactories, , in obtaining new
machinery, and in the purchase of raw'materials,
which during many years of the late war had lain'
by them a mere drug, and a dead weight.
,1 he
manufacturer, however, had taken tmo•such step :
lie was content to take his chance in Liotle.the
home and foreign market, and to depend on the
goodness and superiority of his MantliaCtiireS to
fetch hint such a price as might, remunerate hint,
both for the capital he had laid out, and the la-
bour lie had bestowed. He was content that the
wares he dealt in should go fairly to market, and
there find their own level against every sort of
competition. The landholders, on the contrary,
not satisfied with the high prices of corn "during
so many vest's of war, which had io all instances
doubled their rents, and in many had trebled them,
come to the House and require at its hands a
compensation for that capital, which had already
procured them so many advantages, in the con-
tinual advance of their remits during so long a pe-
riod of time,--during all which the middling and
labouring- classes of the, community had been
struggling with difficulties, and patiently and
loyally suffering privations, front which they.could
expect no deliverance if these Resolutions should
be carried into effeet,7-privations which they had
all along been promised they would be relieved
from when Providence should send them the bless-
ings of Peace. Those blessings, so long looked
for, and so much 'desired, had been granted, by
our being now at peace with all the world ; and
yet, if these Resolutions were carried into •effect,
the manufaetorers and the lahottrittg classes must
greatly stiffer, because the high price of corn must
increase the price of labour, 'and that could not
be done without endangering the manufacturer's
competition in all foreign markets. He was de-
cidedly of opinion, that no body of men, how-
ever respectable, ought to expect a compensation
fox the capital they expended for their own bene-
fit, or for the taxes they paid in common with
other bodies of men, according to their several
circumstances in life. He must, therefore, once
more, protest against the Resolutions, and object
to the Report being brought up.
Mr. GRATTANsaid, that the question was whe-
ther Englishmen were to depend on fOreigners
for their subsistence ? Could Englishmen then
bear to be fed by the charity of France ? Could
the House in its wisdom leave room for a possi-
bility, that time people of England may be starved
by foreigners ? It ought to be considered whether
the. farmer of this country could contend with the
farmers, of the Continent in his own country ?
There was a melancholy proof that he could not
in the different reports of the Committee on the
Corn subject. The importation of foreign Corn
within time last two quarters was 800,000 quarters.
Who could come to theanonstrons resolution that
England should go out of tillage ? Time manufac-
turer should make out a stronger case than he has
as yet made out to prove that she should. He has
not proved that it is impossible for hitn to live
comfortably if the price of Corn be 80s. or 735. a
quarter.. The manufacturers ask the agriculturist
two most unreasonable things, " pay us an en-
ormous pike for our manufactures, and give us
your produce for what we please to pay for it."
He knew the general principle of leaving things
to their natural level was good in the abstract. Timis
was the philosophy of the question, and the doc-
trine of that great political philosopher Adam
Smith. But for this, manufacturers mast be un-
protected as well as agriculture. One obstruction
must weigh againSt another. It was a mathemati-
cal question, if one thing. is artificially raised, so
must the other, to keep them on a level. But
here manufacture is artificially raised, and if agri-
culture is not raised in the same way it is de-
pressed. The agriculturists are asked to be sub-
ject to two things—to pay such a price as manu-
facturers please for their manufactures, and to
sell their own produce for such a price also as the
taanufactiCrers please. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man eontimied to argue that we should not be
starved, although we might not depend on France
or any other nation for supplies of.corn. Mit if,
on the contrary, we might be certain of having a
supply from any foreign nation, could we be cer-
tain of having that supply cheap ? rateAtaygatax
u•e
Should be placed in the situation of
patyi.in
to other countries for our subsistence, while our
own agriculturists would cease to cultivate corn.
While, then, we arc' depriving ourselves of the
best market at home, we are, in, order to make
corn cheap, tilt owimmg ourselves upon an uncer-
tain market abroad. He would insist, that the
domestic market was capable of supplying the
whole of our consumption, if we availed ourselves
of the assistance and capabilities of Ireland. If
due encouragement were given to the Irish ~rower
be would supply more corn than could '
poss )11 y
be wanted ; and the affording of such-encourage.
!Bent is no inure than what he is justly entitled
to. Then would the question he, not, whether
we should ever want Corn from abroad, but what
could be done with our superabundance at home.
This would assuredly be the case, unless we fell
into that miserable policy which forbade the en-
couragcnient of-Ireland ; and he must
say, that
hitherto the policy of this country had

n6t to 103 111 l Ch encoltragenient ft.)
The Right Honourable (.4entleman then
entered upon a statetnent Of the .t,re.).t
Of-Corti exported from Ireland at an, early tie
rind, as we utt.derstood, of. the last' cent in y ;
when, from the itinitilas she received from tile'
protecting duty of that time, she, !irst heratiie
great agricultural cotilitry.
,Having, the .g9t
Ireland into this situation, was it intention-
of the llOuse that she should ;;et out of it again,
and starve, or that she should 'continue her til-
lage, and by it, •a great Means of her pro.,perity ?
Was it meant that Ireland should cease to Conti-•
flue an agricultural country, or a rival to fo-
reigners. with respect to supplies of corn, when
her debt was so enornions as 132,000,0001. and
.while the expellees whiCh she had to pay to Eng-
land amounted to 17,000,000/. ? If•she is suffered
to go back in het• agriculture, how is she to pay
her proportion hf the revenue--where is it to
come from ? This is a question which touches
not only the credit of the landholder and the
gentlemen of Ireland, but the credit of the public
funds; and, therefore, by adopting any measure.
injurious to her agricultural interests, you take
so much credit from the funds and so much front
the landed interest. The two countries might to
be made necessarily dependent on each other.
Ireland, by taking the manufactures of England,
is necessarily dependent upon her_; Englaml,
by taking her natural produce, returns the
benefit, and by this means establishes not merely
a legal but ail amicable union, and the great
-necessary of life is olAained, independent of
all the rest of Diro,te. lint if, on the other
hand, we send Ireland hack again, it might be
relied upon that not only tier credit and revenues
would be dimin.ished, but also her population.
Sir ROBERT' PE4F.L said, there ought to be no
doubt that tilt:landholder and the manufacturer
should gO;ltand in hand ; and that if any measure
were proposed, tending to the benefit of. the one
and the iniury of the What., the result would be
the final injury of both. If any measure were re-
solved upon that would raise the price of bread,
it was certain that the price of bread would very
soot' fall. lie had been for many years a Member
of that flouse, and lutd often witnessed the opi-
nion of Mr. Pitt on this subject, whose luminous
mind was convinced that miles's bread was kept
at a reasonable price, our manufactures could not
thrive. When there was an opportunity of ob-
tnining foreign consumption for our manufmetures
they bad inereased to the amount of forty millions
of exports ; but with all the encouragement that
could be given to theta, foreigners could not be
able to send two millions worth of Corn from
their Countries. Therefore this country has been
greatly enriched by the importation of Corn. In
the present state of 'things, it was his opinion,
that every article whatever Must fall in value, and
the reduction in that of land would be serious.
His own land would fall at least '2Ol. per cettr. It
was impossible that one interest could prevail at
the expence of the other. It was well known,
that both the produce of. land and its price had
of late years increased nearly three-fold. The
manufacturer must always be the best friend of
the landholder; and it was the interest of the
landholder to let no measure pass that is not for
the evident benefit of the manufacturer. As !nog
as the sea was open to us exclusively, we.forced
t trade, and the country.was very much betiefitred
front our efforts. But now tile sea is. open to all
the world ; when every nation becOmes our rival,
would it not be madness to place this country in a
situation in which her manufactures could not
compete with those of foreigners ? This country
abounds in wealth, if we will but give it fair
play. lle had no ,objection to the aifording of all.
possible protection to agric'ulture ; but he would
contend that the manufacturer has been the only
benefactor of the landholder.
.1.44 labour hits
done inure service to the landed interest than any
thing else whatever. Let us, then, • have prices'
that will enable us to send the wealth of this na-
tion to other countries ; let the traffic be got into
this shape again, and we shall continue to be
what we always have been,_ the envy of the
world.

Mr. Purace Observed, that the House appeared
to be going again into the general question., which,
when it was befot e consideml, seemed to be only
a question of degree as to price ; and it ,was then
evident, that though a difference of opinion pre-
'ailed as to what ought to be done, yet every gen-
tleman thought that it was necessary to do some-
thing./ For his own part, he thought the ques-
tion required as much deliberation and candour as
airy that had ever conic before that House': He
had heard the insinuations that had been thrown
out against die I:todholders nit a former evening
as to their wish to holdster up the price ; and all
he would say was, that there flight be equally as
many insinuations made on the opposite..side of
the question ; but if such a Mode of allusion pre-
vailed at all it would be but fair to say, that one
person may as well be informed as another.—
Every Gentleman in that House conld have but
one view on the subject, which was, that it was
_necessary- to decide on the measure in the most
impartial manner. The interest of the grower and
the consumer must he admitted to be the same, and
,therefore, by setting up a diversity of opinion no
good could be done to the cause of either. The
Right Hon. Gent. complimented an Hon. Member
who spoke on a.preceding evening (we believe he
alluded to Mr. J. P. Grant), for placing the
question on its true ground, by.stating that the
restraint would prove whether this country de•
petaed on herself or foreigners ; and that it it
turned out that we should become dependent
upon France, he would then alter his opinion._
This was the ground on which he should wish to
put it. - If .we could he made independent of all
foreign countries for food, it would be the most
desirable event ,that could happen. It would he
highly desirable, that as France is anti must ever
be our natural rival, we should not be dependent
upon her for any portion of the necessaries of
life. But we were, in Fact, only now acting upon
the same system as had prevailed in the time of
King William and Charles 11. and which had been
attended with the woit advantageous results., No
doobt, Gentlemen.were boutid to skew that a ne-
cessity existed for this interference, but. if they
would look into the documents before them, they
would see the necessity admitted and proved. Let
thew look at the Petitions with which their table

Wasti'v
C&ed ; let thprii ai.3o th;cin.;htiIC
oilt
en:pire, and they would see Such general dismreii
amongstthe agrii:ultoral bratiche:i, as never
eur:ed before wiEhlo the eiemory of Lit. to. It tl,e '1
only remaliied to he considered c, Wheit extentre -
lief could be afforded. He \void(' pri.test
the view that had been tAken, of coosidering tl!
United Kiligdom of tircat Britain in the same stt:
tuation as the city of Hanover or Bremen.
would deity that this was a cominei•eial amt agr*
cultural country to the extent that had liven al-
luded to ; that it was a great Coninier`Cial cOnir
try Was well • known, and he trusted it ‘votild
ways cOotinue to be so ; but it WaS likewise ',+,
great agriculturdi country.. Nay, even if its
!tierce and manufactures were to he aimoihilated,
would still condone a great country, and main•
twin its iodependence throughout 'siirope. It eel'.
tainly neither had been niir could be so depen-
dent upon its Manufactures' as the lion. fiaronet►
.
who had just spoken; had conceived it to •
But those who think that our manufactures,
which had continued to flourish during the extra.: •
ordinary events of the long revolutionary war,
will he.equaliy successful now the. nations of th,e
Continent are in a state of profound peace, Inaf
find themselves egregiously deceived. The irench
people, now brought back to order, would
anxious to prevent their introduction. At all
events, it would be too touch to suppose that we
ought to sacrifice every thing to our manufac-
tures. But the advocates of the manufactur-
ing hiterests had not condescended to tell us
~
in what manner the proposed measure would
have the effect of raising the price of Corn. if
our manufacturers should not henceforward be able
to compete with foreign countries, the circum- ,
stance would not be owing to this measure. .Bat
the Bill was not intended to raise the price of
corn ; its object , was to prevent the foreigner
from coming into this country with his produce, •
to the injury of our own, and even to an exteac
which would be ruinous. For many years after
the prices had been,fixed, front an early part of
the last century till 1764, the price was always
lower than it had been before, because the agri-.'
culturist felt himself so much at case as to be -
able to afford corn at a reasonable price. It
would he the height of absurdity to give the come
triunity reason to believe that for a year or two '
only, they might have Corn at a very low price,
and after that to let them have the prospect of it 4
being consiOrably. dearer. If was folly to talk
of the impossibility of this country not being, able
to 'grow Corn enough for its whole consumprion•
From a calculation which he held in his hand it
appeared, that taking Great Britain 'and Ireland
together, the superficital contents were sixty-three
millions of acres, and the population of the ens-
pire about 17,000,000/. Supposing that twelve
millions out of the seventeen eat wheaten bread,
and that the rest subsist on oats or other corn,
and that each individual of the former portion eon"'
slimes about a quarter of wheat, does any man be'
lieve, that the land will not produce the whole of tll6
quantity required ? He would admit, that he lead,
been a great sceptic on the subject of the nieces'
sity of importation ; but he had altered his I
nion on minutely examining into it. In the 1;14'
.year it appeared that 670,000 quarters of Cori
had been imported ; but of these '430,000 weft:
imported from Germany, Holland, •Flatulers, 01(
:ranee, all ‘vititio the last quarter of a-yeare.--
He would not take into the account any impor""
riots which might come front America or fro"!
Poland, because the circumstances of expenee, et
freight and navigation, and the distance 1I('
which they would be brought would overly'
against the introduction of any material Van"(
tity ; but as to the iniportations from the rest 4
Europe, it would in a moment be seen, that "
43,000 quarters of Wheat add 900,000 of Oa°
could be imported in one quarter of a year iron;
countiies of the Continent, independent of Franc`'
this country could be in no danger of wanting' Is
supply. It was exceedingly natural, that
,peol'l
who Beyer stir out of their localities, and xvlto=4
oondition and habits prevented them from invl's'
tigating the subject, should wish to have Corn 115
cheap as possible, and so they got it cheap, it "'-'l4
no matter to them- where it came from. It was inl"
possible for such people to argue on the snbicet.;
and on this account lie would not give way to tbeli
opinion. It was• this outcry for cheap nrea't
xvliich demolished the Roman power : Paßeo4
eireenses was the demand of the people ; the de-
magogues joined in the clamour, and time Goverf;
ment was ,at last obliged to furnish them 01',
bread gratuitously; then they neglected the cli c
tivation of their own fertile lands, and looked 1-‘'r
tbeir.supplies to Sicily and to Egypt: but "ft t,
this the hardy faces of the Romans were worn of
n
the rusticorum. otsculorminver 'n
e seen no more, o 5
'd
tile clamours for -cheap
•bread caused the loss
,3
their liberty, and their ultimate ruin. There " ,
no question that, in the present state of the c00:1'd
try, Corn would he imported cheap, and we diorite
have cheap bread for one or two years ; but
consequence would be, that our own .ag'ricoTh
wrists, particularly within fifty miles of Lonijif'
would not be able to obtain a proper price forth .t
Corn, and would, therefore cease to groW
then we should have our finest land laid closynnj •
pasture, and the rest covered with thistles 11
brambles. Can it then be a matter of doubt fito's;
an instant, whether we ought to encourage,iere,
reign Corn in preference to our own
surely could be no idea of any thing so abslie
suppose, for any reasons good, bad, or in 11ft
rent, the Foreign Powers should, at a future Po
Hod, Stop the e%portation of Corn, what w°l%,,e
become of us, if, from its previous inundation,tri
had suffered the agriculture of our own c0n%,..
to decline ? It had been said that this
try would cease to be great without ,-,1105e
ponderance in commerce and manufactures• 00
who thought so, should cast their eves hackol) rot
what had lately happened. We had seen a g,
country-great without either manufacture/101e
commerce, which had conquei ed nearly the "'ever
of Europe.—(Hear, hear !).—Fie would ;100'
adsnit that the agriculture of our country' 'll ~ct
be thrown.back—such a measure Would be "11 •
f
not only of the most serious inipolicy, bat °latter'
justice ; and he was persuaded, that if the nbc,ird
was fairly stated, the poorest man within ~,c5
ing of the House would exclaima
" No!" 1°,0,a14
proposition. With regard to the price, a at
was a difference of (Minion_ nc tn %Oath

i

i

1

• . , . . . . • .
• . for
... •. , , • . .
'ralti:ti be 725. 765. or S. Ire Was at first 291,98.5; Matting a difference. 61 nine hus,and.
erfor the loss price ; but a low price 'had al- In the manufacturing county of for.,, rather
titrays,4 in his Mind, been coupled with the notion the whole of Yorkshire, in /690, the "'O'er of
plat grallitated scale of 'tribes, and lie had thought inhabitants was 605 ,2C9 . Whot is it now'? not
ti: `e if 7fis. tvere takerras the first price for Obeniug less than 978,559, making a difference of consi-
the PortS, then it might he (carried up to 80S., or till derahly more than j 73,000.. Now, let us see
ha_Ptice at which 'corn Might be imported flee ; • where this increase has princiPally taken place,
•-se,',"dteti it was resolved to fix a price, without a ' and we shall find it.to he ill the*West Riding, the
avd'e of advance, then he was for 80s. For as the , seat of the manufactures, which • now contains
'lO not are tulinitted to be iucorrect, and as they ; more than the populatioil of die whole county at
4.1.?? t give a fair•advantage to the farmer, he had •' the period first mentioned. It was absurd to sop-
lo 'g'lt toexpect the higher price rather than the : pose that the millers would not buy Cairn when
vii'‘'..er: 0.11 the 'whole, he. was never more con- : they wanted it. But it appeared to him, that the
, ice I of any.thing in his life than that this Inca- : best practice would be to establish • a gradually
~s're 11.• as unitecesSary; and he thought that its • diminishing outy, instead of making it now what
tniell...(!o.ption; would not fail to restore ihat confidence it is contemplatcd it may become hereafter r: the
l wits rimy hist ainongst our terrieulturists.— ' effect of this would be to indtice farmers to take
.
'' never could raise the price of bread ; but its long leases, and' things would then Come to their
'efrect ~
tvh w-tdd be to give us a supply at home, and natural condition, by- approximating to natural
b_
.el" a time Of scarcity might happen we should ; agriculture and free trade. On the whole, it did
'1: ble to '.,et a supply n from abroad. On these ' not appear to him that any injury could be u
.itt°"ilds he should vote fur the reception of the tained by any class of people by the adoption of
sport.
a diminishing scale of duty.
°f the
PHILLIPs thought some of the arguments Mr. .3,ANKgs entirely agreed with the general
ih 'ne Hight Hon. Gentleman ill support of the : propositions: that bad been laid down on both
-aeas-..,
,---
i
ocr me extremely singular. , Because the factious, sides, that 'the interests of commerce and mann-
fut"agognes of Rome took advantage of the ,cry factures were so closely connected with those of
cheap bread, till they raised a clamour that agriculture, that the one conic! not be depressed,
got it th
the) , ran for nothing, but which caused them m ithout injaring the other : and that the enemies
lc'ss of their liberties, we are, therefore, to of either were substantially the enemies of both.
to '' hill to augment the price of Corn in order ' He conceived, however, that the circumstances in .
ail seenre our lifferties—(llear, hear !)--"This ; which the comitry had been so long placed, had
,ee'nentation not only will be, but already is, the ; brought on such a state of things, that it was int-
voieet of •the ineasure—(No, no, fro• 0 several • possible now to avoid doing something to (m-
-illi, -es.)---It was 'very extraordinary that now the : courage the cultivation of the country. He
hullUrtation of Corn could be carried on without had but few -Gentlemen to contend with radi-
tverraption, We were called on to fix a price on catty upon that principle. It seemed to be 'mini-
(3..e commodity. But • the Right Honourable yersally confessed, that it was essentially neces-
-4:ootleinan thinks, that do what we will 'France saryio do something. The Hon. Gentleman s•lio
etre Holland will rival us in our manufac- spoke last, as well as another Hon. Gentleman
.. ,
Nees' What, then, is the inference ?•• That (Mr. Baring), were. both agreed that something
Zeicennist take artificial means to raise the , ought to be done for the protection of the farmer
iii ri
..of bread, in order to assist foreign countries but what they proposed for his be
was
it Le‘alling us in our manufactures. How could ' something that every year was to be less of a pro-
-I,l4tdiasirmated that we should be ruined by im- ' tection, and was finally to vanish away altoge-
tea;!,ions; when in the same breath it is admit- i ther. The object of the present measure was cer-
littie‘tnat the importations from France amount to tainly to giYe confidence to those who otherwise
paid' ?I' nothing ?' Besides, would she not he re- would not have it. As our legislation was in al- •
eount'rti equivalents ? If we are an importing most every thing else of a permanent natore, he
to"trY, We must necessarily be an exporting% could not sec why in this instance only it should
, v• Now
cthnitr' .. ~ we could not be an exporting be of a temporary nature. As to the book which
hiui
tbTlyttliout having an accession of wealth, had been so highly praised by the Hon. Gent. who
iliwe. IS Is the best security the landholders can spoke, last, and of which he had read an extract, he
vt.i.iii
°f 11'e Hon. Gentlentan then alluded to se, bad certainly not read that book ; but if the re-
tioilten:ltnis former M•guments on the subject, and mainder was like what had been read to the House
prlvere; us '6' that .it - the manufactures of. France (a laugh) lie really did nut think it would have
ocure yod and as cheap as those- they could much effect in changing the opinion of any Gentle-
-44 taoreQ,sewhere, the consequence tyould he, t hat man. Was it to be supposed that Providence had
taut_rici!abour is employed in manufactures than
,intended to regulate the trade in Corn among na-
hteiture in that country, our manufactures . tions, more than ally other species of commerce
amid ill tx__ atketed in a much greater proportion, That argument would go the length of saying that
faettnes. et, they may impede wir export of ilium- 1 all things ought to he left in a state of natere, anti
'Nu, tl apti°geiber. The Right Hon. Gentle-
kr 'e -.oa o , - - that legislative interference went to overturti the
offlev,d
~, , aceoor of the Exchequer, must have : regulations of Prov,idence. It might appear very
~ ..at, „„,, .
the Lice- ‘suen he comes forward and takes L philosophical to recommend the freedom of trade
on
w:,,t_a!r
.matnrtuilkete'ti:larx—, but
says he will impose taxes , in all circumstances, but this perfect' freedom Of
with applause Lb, and his intention is received • trade could never ha extended upon such a sub-
arnlounee,. hi* But als the very moment when he ject, to a country that was so much of an artifi-
ttleome rilx. 0 s intention of laying a. permanent ; (fiat country as this, and when this unlimited free-
at thatv,„, 11 every manUfacture in this country, ; dole of- unrestricted trade could not exist with re-
sider boll/ Hutment the House is called on to con- spect to other things. If the people that were
grain. r, t° cause a permanent high price of now employed in agriculture could he wit.hdrawu
in pral,ftesPecting the state of the manufacturea . from the country, and cooped up in towns,. to
hiationl'e, he had obtained a vast deal. of. infor- follow manufactures, he believed that the change
sei,,,l;_ , He had conversed with a Gestleman '; would be by no means desirable. We should
cotitt_'au returned within these few clays from that have no longer that brave and hardy peasantry
rovie`st.Y,'..and who had.seen most of its cotton fat- which was the boast of this country—
seer lie was decidedly of opinion, that they
Gens patient ortrutn, studasgae asperinal Belli.
Oil r)toilly in general equal to our own, but that ' '
Instead of having a peaceable •easy governed so-.
hr
e Whole they were better : the reason was,
~, tuost of them had been recently established, ciety, they would place the population „of the
this that the recent mechanism of those of country in a stare that the peace of the cominum.ty
would depend upon their being constantly kept in
Iviiii "wry had been introduced into them,
hall the mechaniSm of our- old establishments employment. How seltiom was any combin,..tioi s
or terment heard of in the country from the stop-
tauteen onlitted ; therefore they had the full ad-
14,,..fe.Possessed by ours. If, then, encourage- page of agricuynral labour.? but lifow&f:r.eque‘ntolsy
creausi s given to French manufactures, by our in- and how reeentty (not more than a c. w-)tialsi
fag)
eitt '4l; the price of grain, and laying a Tax on • had the-peace of the country been distm• )e( •t tu
th_. Mannfacturers at home, he would only. say -
tliiilitt this maunfacturers being out of employment? The
is the at
of folly. He was Hon. Gentleman had said, that the cotton ma-
chinery in France was equal to that of this coun-
t' astonished that any Gentleman. could sup-
-1,,,t' that a country like this conic/ be starved', if , try. If such were the case, it was quite evident
tult 'npplied with all its Corn from its own. agri- that our cottons could not be received in France,
however this question might be determined. As for
lindure• Our riches arose front our commerce;
sarueall rich commies owed their wealth to the the prices of every thing falling in the same pro-
portion that Corn fell in price,
.it was well known,
tit,
~.settree; how else hays it happened, that all
tiai
co st comm.
.telie-
t it whatever !twilit be the ultimate effect, prices
les in the world were comm.- t-" ' • ' •
hot. „ ntries ? . But without a. continuance of did nor fall very rapidly. They certainly did. not fall
so.rapidly, as toaustily the House hi leaving a •great
l't• ibtreat commercial preponderance how could
!heti 1 fa!are support our navy, or procure our sea- portion of the population of the country str.ug-
Ong with every kind of distress, until the places
if. we We were told on another occasion, that
haul so fallen. We knew that there were. many
kti I were to reIV On foreign countries for our
pp v. ~
4' • ' 4 4 me no . • - •
,I,Port . .1, time Navy of .Engiand could not. th.ings that could not fall. Whatever nught be
said about the depreciation of our currency, or its
ttlilettletulatl'o
then,i?oniotloGcodt (saicil 'the lionourale
chance Of being restored to its original value, still
t le very red.ison, why,_
tlit ritish farmer clues not want protection e In it was evident that the interest of the National
4 Yet)? nature . -
cil,. , of things .he is protected. . The . . .
Debt must be paid in pounds sterling. ‘Vhether
1'00,,, i'entleman then read an extract from a •,
prices were high m low all those Taxes which were
o . "'Net b '
doii„ y Mr. Torrens, in support of his own necessary to pay the interest of the Debt. .must -be
4tj i. t--tis, and observed, that as the Hon. Member paid in pounds sterling. It was, therefore, evi-.
tli, lasg '
at ~_‘v had had the candour to acknowledge dent that all other things could not fall in thesame
alit a
inad changed his opinion, be was not with 7. proportion twit col n might fall. Could any body sop-
f'it , uotilii7ethat.afte.l. he had read this pamphlet Pose tharthelargeand ex tensive classconnectedwith
traii..h,'. feel inclined to change it again.— airrictiltiire, beginning with the day-labourer, and
1., • g te0......in .
C teavi,, short, it would be found, that Fbndiiia- with the landholder, could all be seriously.
,'tit , "g of commerce and ah••• It
blicu tire to crake
"qui i'vaY accord'
Aft hbe , nig to the natural order of things, consequences ? He knew already that in many
small towns the tradesmen had suffered severely
t orde 1 tile best protection that could be . ,
Iron, -the depression of agriculture; and he be-
i.v44 eot(routo best
The duties imposed by us, rtt, would be another most material ad- li•eved that this would soon be
ifelit. in
that
large
Y. e to fire
towns and cities. He did not re 'eve Great
i, thi. le French manufacturer. We •
ill', foreieenPe,nce per lb. on cotton imported
.Britain alone could, by its agriculture, support 0(14 ,'1- "iPs, and one penny per lb. on that its population; but was it possible-not to prefer
thr'ttitel:'‘iiti our own. This is one reason why ['ranee
supplied from Ireland, to being supplied from
übtii,litpotyno., imposes noduty at.all, will become and Flanders? There the price of labour,
was cheaper than it was here ; and he believed
I lit cotton from which we shall be
11R4itt4' to •
• •iin 1 • .
with proper encouragement-, they could raise suf-
;al
wi, Wit port it into this country. And
ficient Corn at a moderately cheap rate, to meet any
‘44. e NI
.('respect•to grain, while we are d0aii2,....
ri taa,c t.r._`° Prevent ourselves front deriving deficiency ill the produce of Great Britain. 'She,
that was so goou a customer to us, had a right
ft: cotiteluiy. importations, we arc at the same
to demand that preference. She had a right to
1-luetir „Iv, "mg, that if we do not grow enough
li. 4. Dept 4 stlbsistenee, we shall be starved. The demand it also froth her connection with tis
fas tit
'4l beerie„p
11,4 t lti an then proceeded' to skew what sister kingdom. The Hon. Member here. re ere( li,ti cif', 'e tffeet of agriculture, contrasted with .to the case‘ of Norway, tic,
iwhich. an Hon. Geo-
% °limier' •
cl.e. •it et. anu manufactures on our poptt- tlenian (Mr. Baring) 'hat at %erred as all !exampie
- of a, trustithr entirely to importation, and
5
'l%(ii4d, ,i,ht,i:e-.lriantifacturing counties it had in- country
asked, whether the recent situation of that coon-
tiallill)!ed, ilt:e,.:ll the :agricultural 'districts it hat! ,
,ry
~ when, threatened by invasion, and contending
It of • 'N orfo I k , for instance, in 1690 the , `
. against a supenor force, did not furnish a sta-
. 1"1-tabitants was 282,595',. it was noW

dent illustration of the misery and danger of such
a dependence.
1111.. Pinwas explained.
Mr. MAttnYAT WaS lint less SOnCifOIIS than any
Member of the House to secure the British agri-
culturist from any unfair disodvaiitage arising
from foreign competition. The, whole question
was one-of degree ; but he could not avoid feeling
some surprise when he heard it gravely stated,
that the present measure was not intended to in-
fluence the price of Corn. 'lO -hint it 'appeared
tantamount to an opinion that SO shillings
was not more than G3s. The Hon. Gentleman who
had just sat (low!), and who had honoured hard to
excite all their Anti-gallican feeling-s, had seemed
to forget, what every Member who had joined
in this discussion ought to know, that• in France
the single tax of the contribtition fonciere was alone
eque,l to the full amount of thost. taxes stated to
be so'oOpressive in the landed interest. It had
formerly been a fifth, but the last centime had
raised. it to a fourth, or, as it had been estimated,
nearly one-third. The French Minister of Finance
had, in his expose for the year 1814, whilst he
lamented the dismemberment of forty-t
ments of the empire, calculated the remaining pro.
duce to be 273 millions of francs. in Hon. Gen-
tleman (Mr. Whitbread) had, on a former even-
ing, asked him for a return of his commercial
prolik—a request, he thought, a little extraor-
dinary,r,asTroceeding, from one who had so often
reprobated the inquisitorial spirit of the Pro-
perty Tax—(A laugh.) For his own part, he
believed, that ,it the profits of the lion. Gentle-
man's bretk.ery could be disclosed without impro-
priety, the public would be satisfied, that, hokt-7...
ever anxious the Hon. Member had been for their
interests, he had not been quite negligent of his
own. He wished to remind thellouse that not
many years had eloped since the 'French fevolu-
tionary policy was formed upon principles similar •
to some of those by which the present measure
was defended, and that the effects of that policy
had been to drive manufacturers out of-France,
and in a short time so to injure the land proprie-
tors themselves, as to reduce the value of land
from 25 and 30 to 5 or 6 years' purchase. He ad- •
nutted that Sotae protection was necessary, and
that a certain boundary was to be established : but
he was decidedly of opinion that the proposed
measure overleaped that boundary.
Mr. Davis Ginray declared his.belief to be, not
not that the effeet of the measure before the
House would be to render Corn cheaper than at
present, but to prevent it ever becoming inordi-
nately dear. If any unpopularity attended an opi-
nion of this kind, he was ready to meet it.
Mr. IlmttxG thought, that whaever supposed
the present question was one front ‘tildeli popu-
larity might be gathered,. would tiod it very short
lived, even if it should be attained ? Every gen-
tleman had disclaimed all insinuation about mo-
tives,. acid vet motives had been pretty liberally
imputed on both sides. For his own part, he had
the highest opinion of the landed interest ; he
looked upon their predominance in Parliament as
a general advantage : lie considered
.the liberties
of the country as most safely placed in their bands.
He believed that .in the lore!,. run it would be
found they were the' class which acted with the
greatest independence. : The present question,
however, as it affected merely the rent and pro-
duce of laud, was to them a questioo More nar-
row in its nature, and with respect to Which they
might naturally be supposed to act wider a bias.
It was somewhat remark:l6lC that he had not heard
during the whole of the night, when the question
was, of bringiug up the report of the resolution,
affirming :80s. to he the ininiaoth at which foreign
corn should be imported, one word toshew that 80s.
Was the proper price, or the lowest price that could
hay the expenses, anti remunerate the tibours of
the farmer. The manufireturers had been pretty
ronghly handled; they been, treated as the
SCIIIII of the earth—(Cries of no, no) ; but no
reasoning had been ()tiered to convince hini that
80 shillings was the'fit and necessary sum. How
this point had been overlooked,, he could only ac-
count for by supposing that the measure itself
teas utterly indefensible ; mid hat as it could not
be.carried by force of argument, it must he carried
by clamour and by numbers—(ReneWed cries of
no, no). He had himself no interest it; the issue'
of this question beyond dint of any other !rerun) ;
he was not engaged 'in the trade of corn; and ne-
ver had been.' What he observed was, the result of
his own free and deliberate judgment. The report
of the Committee, partial as it wag, did not justify.
the present measure ; it did. not even corre-
spond with the evidence on which it pretended
to be founded. The Committee wanted protec,
lion against present rents acid present charges,
but had forgotten to report accurately what their
own witnesses had told them. Instead of its be-
ing true, as they stated, that only one person had
thought a lower' price than 80s. sufficient, one
witness conceived 72 itialine of peace, and five
others 76 up to 80, as a .full compeosation to the
farmer. He should tart refer, to the wild opi-
nion that rent. did not at all enter into the price
of Corn ; but he wished to tdiserve, in conse-
quence of what had been said of the stimulus Oc-
rived to the farmer by his paying a. high Vela,
that the saint:shwa/ars to an exertion Of his powers
tvould be found in his experience of a declining pro.-
duce. At all events, he Was quite satisfied that our
modern improveMents in Ogrieulture had not tended
to augment our agricultural population, If mea-
sures of the kind of that now 'before them were to
be resorted to, and artificial Means adopted to lieep
up the prices, it: would be..vain to expect to see
our money 'circulation return to its natuii al. state,
and they must make up their minds to hack. notes
anti Bank tokens for die future. Here the Hon.
Member entered into a calculation to slim th,;l
the whole quantity of cultivated land in Great
Britain and Ireland was (33 millions of acria3, and.
that a bounty of 10s. to the landlord, in the shape
of a'tax on the rest of 'the community, •already
established by law,' would afford the Test& of
which was annually paid, nearly 32 millions ster-
ling, as stated by hint on a former evening, The
Hon. Meniber concluded,' amidst considerable
marks of impatience for the question on the part
of the Ilotise.

Mr. FITZGERALD said, that it was not alone be-
cause he felt most earnestly on this suttjeet that
he desired to oiler himself to the Houjej but be-
cause, exhausted as the House might be, and es.-

bausted as the subject too was, he vet could no
stiffer the language of the Hon. Gentleman to pass
wit hour animadversion. (Hear, hear!)—The Holt;
Gentleman had said, that he rpiestiond a it the
motives of others, yet the -whole of I.is spr-een .
was made op or the most unManly iosinoa-
tioos. lie would not condescend to repel them,
The ..Hon. Gentleman had stated his at gtonamt as
applicable to our ioanufactures, and he • bad in,
stanced that of Cotton ; and the whole question_
of their competition iu foreign markets with
manufacture of France, for instance, was a ques-
tion' of price. He should haye told the House that
it was a question of prohibitiKr. Your Cot ton
manufactores were prohibited in France without
reference to any thing- but their being; British.— .
Thq were prohibited in France, iu Austria.' and
in other. States. The H 011: Gentleman will assert, .
perhaps that they may still find their way into
foreign markets where they will have to meet the
manufacture of France; but he could inform the
Hon, Gentleman that they did not only find
their way into these markets, hut at this very
moment large quantities had been en.rried into
France ; certainly not under circumstances which
could add either to the facility or the cheap.;
►
ness of their entry there—since the prohibi-
tion remained in force, and they couhl tint ex-
pect it to be abandoned by the French. He
doubted not that the Honourable Gentleman was
not unapprised of the circumstances he alluded to.
He would assure hint of the filet ; and it was suffi-
cient to prove that it was not a question of
mere price., . The Honourable Gentleman had
smiled at his mention Of Spain.s But.
the House
\yr:mid recollect, that in that. was included the
supply of the South American Provinces, which
were yet dependent on the Spanish -Monarchy.—
The monopoly of cotton 'was secured to. the Phi-
lippine Company; and thOugh some relaxation in
other Parts of the commercial policy of Spain had
been given, or hoped for, still 'in this article of
cotton the system was rigidly acted on and avow- ,
ed to be for the purpose of protecting- the cotton
manufactures of Catalonia. But the first fact he
alluded, to would be sufficient. He Could not have
apprehended the rivalry of these States. He too,
as; well as an _Honourable Gentleman who had
preceded hint, confided in the skill, in the in-
dustry, in the capital above all employed in Bri-
tish manufactures—in the internal advantages (if
our country,
.our cheapness of fuel, the advan-
tages of our inland naeigation, and more than
these, in the spirit of enterpri2e Which had
created for us these markets, and which he
trusted would be beneficially employed. Still
the Hon.•Gentlemait says, that if we perpetuate
the artificial system of the country, there is an
end to oor hope of a returning circulation in
specie.—Why fir, said the 'light Hou. Gentle-
man, the dir'ect contrary. as far as the effect of these
resolutions will be the result .wkich we have a
right to look ,firr. -When did our foreign ex- '-
changes become. most adverse ? When we were
compelled to send out our gold as an equivalent
for the supply of foreign sustenance.,—Mdch of it
was merely owing to 'that ; all of it in the year
ISOI might be ascribed to that datie.; and it is . •
not a little remarkable, that it has begun to droop .
as the foreign coin has be.g an to collie in in the
last four or eight months, and as you have ceas-
ed to look to these countries for your support.
But the Honourable Gentleman cpmtinues to
assert, that we have fixed- a price which can
never be below eighty shillings. In reply,
we may remind him that -iii Ireland, now an ex-
porting country, a country of which
_the popula-
tion, though aviculturpl, has increased iu an un-
exampled degree in Ireland, which thirty years
ago received her food from you, when the pro-
tecting price was about 38s. the barrel, a price
correspondent with that of 635. per quarter ; the
average price has been for the last six weeks 265.
that is, at the rate of 20s. and far below 635.
per quarter your protecting price. And as if to
refute the Hon. Gent, even when he allowed it,
the price since the ports:have been entirely Shut,
although he will admit beyond our , protecting
price, the fall has already been 3 or 4s. a quarter.
I shall absain, Sir, from arguing this as au Irish
(ltiestion. It is unnecessary so to argue it; it
would be ungrateful to do so. Not a man has
spoken who has not recognised our right to pro- •
tection, and I hail the liberality which has, I may
say, pervaded the House of Commons since these
discussions have begun, as holding out a prospect
of much more than these regulations can give, of
a re-organized community, of which„ as a pledge
of the sincere wish of representatives of Great
Britain and Ireland for the concurrent prospe-
rity of both. I will not recur, said the Hon.
Gentleman, to the periods of national jealousy,
look forward to the days of prosperity, which are
yet to come. I regard this measure as one Which
gives the best pledge of it; as one which stews
that you forget tot that country which has ,con-
tributed to the,support of the empire, to its de-
fence, and to its glory.
Sir FLOW) said, he did not expect to have
hoard it stated, as it was. by' an Hon. Member, •
that no arguments had been used in favour of
bringing ap the Report. The most powerful of .
'all arguments was, the majority of 209 to 65 in
favour of the .Resolutions.—e Ade.
nied that he was partial or interested oft this goes-,
Lion, for. he had not a rood of land in Britain,
and only a, very moderate property itt Ireland. He
had that day received seven letters front respect-
able agriculturists in Ireland,' all of them stating, s
that from despair they would stop the plotigh and •
the harrow unless they were. !note( ted; The
lion. Baronet then complained that he had been
mistaken an'd roisreprestoted by an Hon. Gentle-
Man the other night, and • hoped the Houseavonld
acquit him of the truss Mill that had been ascribed
to him, in saying that he had seen ploughs in Ire •
land drawn by six bulls—bullocks, not Imills)illii•as;
the expression Ite.' had used.—(A. laugh.)
Mr. kVit;..et RE at professed his regret for bay-.
ing
but tausi.lllreeihtahr7;stel-C'till'aßl'ritr;lintelit.a'swbitutgli7nkt:.iii:lto Otigh
in
England, he supposed that.there might sometimes
be fx bulls so employed on the heavy lands in
Ireland. Another Hon. Member (Mr. Marryat)
seemed to feel extremely sore at an allusion to
what he had said on a former. night. What he
had ttten said on the subject of land-owners
be-
ing equally entitled to call upon merchants for an
account ut their profits was merely as an illus.*