The Sun.
London, England, 1823-06-12 00:00:00

SILK MANUFACTURE BILL._

Mr. HUSKISSON moved the third reading of the 13i11. He
briefly described the object of the measure, and stated the
effect of it would be to put the Silk Trade in Loudon on the
seine footing as in other. places.
The LORD MAYOR rose to move that this Bill should be
re-committed. He did not say that originally he should have
approved of the measures which were now to be put amide;
but it was one thing not to approve of the passing of an Act,
and another to repeal it when it, had passed, and had been long
in opperation. He feared this 11111 would be injurious not to
Spitalflelds, but to those places where the silk trade now flit.
?hilted through the %maim) of the Spite Melds Acts. He was '
satisfied that this Bill would create misery and great die.
content. A few years ago, in the Borough which he had the
honour to represent, from many of the inhabitants being thrown
out of employ, the Poor Rates were enormously increased,
and great distress prevailed. Work was provided. for the suf-
ferers, the rates were then reduced, and now the place was
once more in a flourishing state. The present measure would
bring back the former evil. He hoped the House would pause
before they passed the Bill. He moved that it should be re.,
committed.

The SPEAKER said, the Bill being engrossed, it was not
competent for a Member to move that it should be re.corn.
milted.

The LORD MAYOR then moved that the Dill should be
read a third time on. that day six months.
Mr. 'W. SMITH could have wished that this Bill bad been
re-committed, that it might not pass till those industrious per.
sons, who filled the lobbies of the House, were convinced that
the nature of its provisions were such as would not eventually
prove injurious to them. He thought they were mistaken in
their view of it. The' Spitaltlelds Acts were useful in pro.
muting an amicable adjustment of differences in the Silk
Trade; but if wages were lowered in Spitalfields by the
passing of this Bill, it could not be expected that weavers
would come from establishments in the country—from Mac.
clestield, or front Stockport, to work here for lower prices.—
When it was known that the Mover of the present .elinend.
mitt was apprehensive, not that Spitaltields would suffer front
this measure, but that it would inflict distress on those places
which now flourished from, the operation of the Acts proposed
to be repealed, he hoped the petitioners agitinst it would be in
some degree consoled by finding that it was not considered by
those who opposed it to abet the London workmen in the way
they had supposed.
Mr. H. GURNEY explained the circumstances under which
the trade was managed in London by committees of masters
and journeymen, and contended the Bill could not Ge. other
than injurious in its operation. He therefore supported the
Amendment; and if that failed, he hoped the House of Lords
would grant the inquiry which had been denied in the Commons.
Mr. BRNETT (Wilts) was of opinion, that if the Acts pro.
posed to be repealkd had never passed, the establishments of
Devonshire, Lancashire, and other places connected with the
silk trade, would all have been formed in Spitalfields. The,
present Bill might be expected to induce master weavers in the
country to remove their establishments to that neighbourhood,
iind the existence of large manufacturing establishments in the
metropolis might at some critical periods prove dangerous to
the public peace. Considering the operation of the Bill as
likely to prove injurious, he could not love his vote in favour
of the third reading.
Mr. RICARDO- thought the reasoning of the Hon. Gentle-
man who had last spoken was directly opposed to that of the
Lord Mayor. The latter maintained that the Bill would prove
injurious to Spitaltields, by driving the weavers from it; the
former was of opinion that it would make them flock there
fr wages om all parts. fie admitted that high would benefit
the journeyman if they
could secure him employment; but
with wages nominally high, and but little to do, he would be
worse oil' than those wbo received lower wages elsewhere.
He would not stand up one moment for this Bill If lie could
believe it hostile to the Interests of the journeymen, but he wits'
convinced that it would prove more beneficial- to them than.to
their masters. The lion. Member for Norwich had spoken of
the differences of the trade being amicably adjusted under the
Bill before a Magistrate. But he (Mr Ricardo), if it were
necessary, could produce a dozen cases in which the decisions
of the Magistrates had been resisted by both parties, and where
Counsel had been employed on each side. At present there
was a commodity' sold in London for one pound fitur shillings.
By the regulation now in force, the untater was ,hound tn.pay
thcjourneyman one pound three shillings for manufacturing
the article. Under such circumstances it was quite dear that
the manufacture of that article could not be carried on in Lou.
don. He wait confident that when this Bill had passed, there
would be a greater quantity of work in London than there was
at present, and the. wages for manufacturing the ordinary COM.
modifies would not be reduced, since they were already as high
In the country as they were here. He could not see one reason
for delaying the passing of this Bill a single day.
Mr. P. 111001tE, as the maintenance of Coventry would be
taken away by the passing of this Bill, felt it to be his doty to
make the best stand he could against it. He contertdosi the
Most injurious effects must follow the adoption of such a low.
He had a petition to present on this subject, which he should'
reserve for another clay. He considered the measure to be
favoured by a combination of masters—be must say it—to de.
fraud the workmen. The Spitalfields Acts had only the efTect
of compelling the musters to observe theitengagemente with
their journeymen, which otherwise would be violated with im.
puaity. When the bill passed, it would send . ten or twenty
the-mend industrious persons to the poor-house, and involve
the workmen both of Spitalfields and Coventry in one corn.
mon ruin.

Mr. BRIGHT thought this subject deserved the most care-
ful inquiry. An lion. Member near him had expressed a hope
that the House of Lords would appoint a Committee to in-
etuire into ti..e merits of the case. He, however, contended
this duty ought to be deputed to them, as the House of Com-
mons, if it omitted to take the task upon itself, would fail in
its duty. The Lion. Member for Portarlington lied spoken of
the dissensions between the masters anti journeymen weavers
in London, but what he would ask was, the character of the
dissenSiots in London and those of the country. instead of
such differences as bad commonly been adjusted by a Megis-
trate in the metropolis,in the country it was fret fitly found -
that a master refused to pay the workmen one weekAhe witgei
which he had agreed to pay him-but the week before. It was
in proof that in the country the masters, left to themselves, gave,'
mach low wages that half of them were obliged to seek parochial
relief. The Spitalfielits Acts had existed for many years, and
the workmen who had grown up under them were now *bent to
be deprived of their birthright without inquiry, or worse even
than that, after an inquiry; for one had when place: in the year

• PRICE SEVESPENCE.

181 a, by a Committee of the noose of Lords, which Commit-
tee had reconnuended, tilt that the Spitaltields Acts should be
retvaled, but that the principle of them should be extended to
other parts of the country.
Mr. HUINIE contended the statements of the last speaker
were incorrect, and wondered not at the discontent excited out
of doors, when his lion. Friend was so misinformed w this
subject. lie proceeded to show front reference to the report 'of
the Committee of the House of Lords, and the evidence on which:
that Report was founded, that the Hon. Gentleman oats in
error. He supported the Bill, which he declared he would be
the last man to do, if. he could believe it would prove injurious
to the journeymen.
111 r. CUJLWEN was satisfied that the ine4nre was likely to
prove beneficial, but as it created much diseamtent, he could
wish the passing of it postponed for a time, and should there..
fore vote for the atneathnent..
Mr. ELLICE said, he should vote for'the amendment., front
a feeling that the petitioners ought to have been heard before
the 1111 l passed. If the Bill paned that night, lie thought it
would be consoling to the petitioners against it to recoil,*
! en assurance that their case should be more fully considered
in the ensuing Session. lie hoped the Right lion. Gentler
man opposite would give such a pledge. lie thought the
repeal of the Spitaltieltis Acts, and of theADir, rtintitilt cope 4
binatiOns of journeymen, ought to have been eontemporanetriot
measres.
Mr. u
iIUSKISSON had no ohjection to comply with the wish
of the Hon. tientleman. The Bill for repeitling the Acts relit.
tive to combinations of journeymen was in the hands of the
Hon. Gentleman's Colleague, and he had stated both to him
and to the Ilon.
.Member for Aberdeen his readiness to consent
to the whole subject being referred to . a Committee up stairs.
The present was not a general measure, but one framed to re.
move partial restrictions from one particular district. As the
Chief Magistrate of the City of liondort, who had moved the pre-
sent amendment, did so, not on account of chf great evil which
the Bill was likely to cause to be felt at Spitz holds, but on
account of the distress which might be produced M other parts,
he hoped he should stand in some degree acquitted to the peti.
tioners (the operative weavers of Spliallields), for the part he
had taken, and which they had conceived to be directly against
their interests. He must do the petitioners the justice to say,
that in all the communications he had had with them, they
manifested a disposition to argue the subject temperately and
calmly, and had throughout ahewn a degree of respect for the
Laws and for the feelings of the le,gislature which did them the
greatest honour. The individuala who formed the first Corn.
mittee, from the circumstance he believed of what he had said,
having made atone impression on them, it were thought to
have been unworthily tampered with. They bad been removed,
and others were put in their places. He did not believe that
even a Committee of that House could have satisfied all who
had appeared in succession as Committeemen. He concluded
by declaring, that in what he had done, he had been influenced
by no private or personal feeling, but solely by a sense of pub-
lic duty. •
Mr. B. COOPER supported the amendment.
The LORD MAYOR, 11r. Ewer., and Mr. P. Moony
severally explained.
Mr. JAMES thought, if this Bill were repealed, the acts
relative to combinations of journeymen, those which prevented
artists front going abroad, and the corn laws ought to be re.
pealed at the same time. He felt bound to oppose the passing
of the 1:1111.

Mr. BYNG should vote against the third reading of the
13111. He knew many masters and many respectable persons
wished to have the Spetalfields Acts repealed, but he could not
put their wishes in competition with the comfort and independ.
ence of the workmen. lie could have, wished that House to
have granted a Committee to incinire into the subject; but as
they had done so, he hoped the other Bowie would.
Air, Alderman C. S.IIITH offered a, few words, which were
inaudible in the Gallery.
The House then divided.
For the Third Reading . . . 53
Against it • .
Majority in favour of the Bill .
The Bill was then read a thinl time and.passed.
ALTERATION 01? TIIE CURRENCY.
Mr. IVESTERN called the attention of the ,Mouse to the
subject of his motion relative to the state of the Currency.—
lie had failed, he hod observed, in two attempts to induce the
House to take this subject into their consideration, but he
was not the leas persuaded that his views were correct. Ile
should do his beet to impress them upon the House,, and to
point out that the working of events since he had last ad.
dressed them confirmed rather than confuted his opinions.._.
Ills object was to endeavour to persuade the BOUSC, to enter
into a full consideration of the subject, in the shape of an in-
quiry through the medium of a Committee. The doctrine
which he was prepared to maintain was, that the measure re.
gating to the currency, which commenced in 181.1, and was
consummated in 1819, was not only of spoilation, but of
absolute confiscation of property. in order to settle .the
question whether this was the right view to be taken of the
measure or not, be wished an inquiry to be. instituted into all
the variations of the value of the currency since the year
1793 to the present time', that was to say, since the Contrac.
tion in the quantity of circulating medium which had heels
Carried into effect. Were this done, he was convinced the
House and the Country would be most effectively assured that
they acted in error in projecting the nieasure in quotidian. For.
his own part, whatever might be resorted to hereafter, he did not
contemplate the re-establishment of an unlimited paper tatr-
rency, which no man in that House, nor any where else, regret-
ted more than himself. Neither did he contemplate that by pos.
sibility there could ever be again that full extent of currency
which had existed befbre. Ile begged, before he proceeded
any further, exylicitly to declare that he did not expect that any
Gentleman voting for his motion of inquiry would pledge him-
self to the adoption of any ()fills (31r. W.'s) opinions. There was
no occasion for its altering the- state of any one's views. He
did not know that he, should object to the experiment of the
Bon. Member fur Portallington, provided he could show that
his plan propounded in the Committee of 1812, viz. to pay in
bullioninstead of coin, would not have increased the value of
gold tried by else measure of commodities. But by the ems«
non of the Restriction Act, be considered the value of gold
had been greatly altered. That since 1010 the value was
much raised was proved by the fact that in that year
wheat was At seventy-two shillings and a fraction, and at
that period ono ounce of gold would trot have commanded
more thali nine bushels of wheat. He dill not consider this
question merely as an agrictiltural one, but lie must at the
same time say that it was an agricultural question as well as
one affecting all other Owes of the community. Considering
that this measure had deprived every class, from the aristo-
entey to the artisan, of a portion of property, it unquetition.
ably uffected all, and not one branch in particular. iii* opinion
with respect to the returning prosperity of the agriculturist
was that it was a most futile and fugitive notion ; and he was
prepared to argue, from the average pricee of this year, that
the depression arose from the increased value of money. 'filo
present price of wheat was, up to May, this year, 465. per
quarter, and barley als., which were lower than the averse of
150 years before the war. But he did not, as he had said be-
fore, treat this as an exclusive agricultural question ; he was
ptrry'llutard to contenddebeenrctiuc thated;itri tAie
elvetsitatlntodsieng inwhommwert I°lifostthoepiwpotusedl.
to himself in opinion admitted that it had been reduced by this
measure 10 per cent. According to the property tax returns, the
total income of land, including Ireland, was h 0 milliena. But to
show the actual total value of the produce of the land, they must
estimate it at 200 millions, deducting from which 10 per rent.,
gave 20 millions, which operated as so much additional taxa.
don. The reduced value of land might be fairly stattal at 30
per cent. The price of wheat he cunsidered would never go
Above 555. ; so that the total reduction on the amount of money
actually drawn ti.orti the produce of the land, was 60
This amount he Maintained was for ever lost, and thus laid
like so much taxation for ever on the income, of the country.
If he could show reasonable ground the supposition that in
11114 and 111pt1 the real value nt the existing ettreeth7 WAS mil-
understood, therm, he maintained, the I.lolole WAS hound,3 to
nice to inqUiry. in a matter in which the income the
td‘ their boasted jealousy in rtioi
The income not of 10 per cent. would have been a boon
he contended that the value
colionusetriyorhado)bruegonilseewrereas.e einultir.,tordnaititioleurn4ketoinrrte:twnieitleti.:_anitientts!laiset,;rt„„oortttli:
country be e the tart--;( ter 11--
That the noose lied not uniteratood what would t effect
oPfartehae. ripe:Line nietrtiurt' e't
1819;
a"
to
preitiOus inquiries, to the dfect upon taxation, Axon any altr.
of thfireirt,uniteatahuerier
ninevierel9bialyteintgbotougrtdwathse""lgir aclttge,fluttilloniniw,kethed
iffittdbeteisoovreirnittioged That the whole inconit! oe the
the
Aden in the velum of the currency.- The Hon Member for
.POrtarlingtoa thought hefted done enough when he p...red that
time dialcoce bctween the value of paper and metallic currency

. .
haveai pex cent. Stit heldmate nor then:line seemed to Genileman Tor his motivetr; and he thought the lion. Gentle-
haile %UMW any examination into the value of the aggregate man should', in candour, not withhold that credit from others.
currency ; they seemed to have made no examination into the .'—for his ewn part, he would beg to observe that his property
effect of a change of currency, upon the neceseeey article of eonsisted.a3 much inland it% in feraled property ; and on the
existence ; and yet. all thriller writers on the subject enjoined whole, he should find it difficult to say, Whether, as a payer
a strict vigilance ever the fluctuations of bread-corn in making of 'taxes, ho had more interest in the one sort of property,
any alteration in the value of the currency. Even the Right than in the other. The Honourable Gentleman, thepaHon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Secretary Peel) told them larly pointed him out in his pamphlet as one of monied'
'that the price of labour was at all times the best criterion of interest, whose interest was opposed to that of the agricultural
the value of money. Mr. Horner 's opinion, on the contrary, proprietors. The lion. Gentleman had said, in 1816, that sooner
most decidedly was, that the price of bread.corn was the beet or later there must be a remunerating price for corn ; yet he
anti only certain criterion. As a pzoof that he was right, they (Mr. It.). had, over and over again, been taunted for holding
had only to refer to therise and fall in the price andwhat after this doctrine. He was satisfied that the people were reconciled
the reittricaons on the currency were put on, after they to Peel's Bill; and that the country would ultimately flourish
wen taken off. The preeent state of the enentry was, that it under
coma had been accused, out of the House, of stating
was loaded with a debt, a great part of which it never incurred, that every odity must be regulated by the price of gold.
and charged with the re-payment of.which it never received.— This, in particular, had been charged against him with regard
(hue branch or inquiry into which he wiehed a Committee to go to it evtdence before the Lords' Committee. He had not
was the effect of the change in the value of the currency on stated this. He had said that even the standard itself might
'money contracts. That it had made a great change in them undergo variations, and that it would very probably be effected
there could be no doubt—it had in fact abrogated the contract by the standards of other countries, He had to apologize to the
`Letween landlord and tenant altogether. In all cages, with but House for having intruded upon them so much at length-e.
very fewerxceptins the landlord had been' obliged to lower his (Bear !)—but he WM induced to do so from a belief that his
rent 39 pe cent.: and that lie wee assured would bring the opinion on this sebject was the correct one, and that greet trait.
great landed proprietors to beggary. If these things went on chief would follow the adoption of the proposal of the lion.
they would have a pauperized aristocracy, a beggared gentry, Member for Essex.
and a swarm of smock-frock farmers, and potidoe.fed copula- The Marquis otf ITCHFIELD supported the motion. Ile
Om—(le:es hear !)—Their pear.antry would be degraded be. had no wish that the agricultural class should be benefid at
',and ftny thing ever seen before, and he defied the House to the expence of tiny other, but he wished merely for inquiry.—
contemplate this prospect with tranquillity. This deprecia. For inquiry he contended that a primafircie case had been maae
two would not stop in its operations with the agriculturist out by his lion. Friend. The united talent and information of
alone, it would assuredly extend to every other class of the all lion. Members could be brought to bearupon the subject in
community. But it was most true that the price of manufac. a Committee. lie thought the former Resolutions of the House
taring labour had not fallen Ito low as agricultural labour, but resnecti the Currecy had been the cause of all the calmni-
the teene depression would soon reach that part of. the corn. ties whi had since fallen upon the country ; for they had
munity. In proportion aa wages fell, the burden of taxa. encouraged the Land Proprietor to cultivate the peorer soils at
thin woula be felt in exactly the same ratio. lie would not an increased expense. Had these Resolutions avowed, rather
press any other arguments on the House to induce them to than concealed the depreciation of our paper currency, men
participate in his views on this question. lie felt confident would have known how to regulate their contracts. But this
that it could never be answered to hint that the House was not not being done, men were Iliondeceied, and led into difficulties
in error when it mowed this measure. Taking the most 'ex. which had been alluded to by his . Friend. It was much
• -' .* periods of the late war, he contended, without fear of consolation to hint to know, that his Right Hon. Relation (Air.
oe hen
contradiction, that when our expenditure was seventy-four Secretary Canning we believe) had hind no part in disseminate
and eighty-four millions, the real value of thatewas onlyfifty. ing the doctrines avowed by those reolutions, but on the con.
eight and sixty million*. Such was the' depreciated state of trary, had done all in his power to oppose them. For many
'the currency in those periods; and then he asked whether this years anterior to those resolutions the currency had been no.
` country was to be paying for such borrowed sums, seventy- toriously depreciated, and public salaries and allowances had
four and eighty.four millions. Upon this point he threw down been increased atintittedly, with a view to that depreciation.—
'the gauntlet to the lion. Member for Portarlington, (Mr. Ili. A return to Cash Payments had been called wholesome, .and
etude), and challenged contradiction. The currency appointed undoubtedly it was so for tax receivers, but not for the pub.
in the year 1019 was, in -truth, the establishment of a new tic, who were the tax
fpsyers. In fact, he thought he might
'currency. The way to havesstuna that currency was, by consider the principles this question lis assented, and treat
the standard of all the debt Mewed tiering the long de- the question itself as one of degree only. All admitted that
pertere front the ancient standard. To have establithed, in some alteration had taken place, but many differed as to its
1819, a new measure of value, without recurring to the an- amount. The Hon. Member for Portnrlington had treated that
'cient rate of salaries, and all money-payment was a manifest degree ue very te flieg, and said that people would hereafter
injustice to the whole country. Ile called upon the House to be surprised at ti eir having felt Any alarm at all' about it.—
' examine into the truth of the allegatione he had made. In con- The Hon. Member for Portarlington had taken the amount of
sideration of the diminution of income, caused, as he had depreciation at a per cent., others had taken it at as much
shown, he asked the lion. Alember for Porterlington, whether as 50 per cent., and he (the, Marquis of Titalifield) would take
this country would ever again be able to meet an expenditure about the medium and treat the amount of depreciation as
4 04 millions. The Army and Navy, and those whose 30 per cent. Yet ithe lionlaurable Member for Portarlington
salaries had been raised and not lowered wee 1819, were those had approved of the statements of Mr. Musket, who had gone
only who had gained, including always the stockholder, in into long calculations to chew that the fundholder had gained
whose favour all variations of the value of gold had been made, nothing at all. Mr. 51usitet, however, had gone upon the
• The Hon. Member concluded, by moving for the appointment assumption that it was the price of bullion which was to regu.
of a Committee, 'tTotake into consideration the changes in late the calculation, and this he (the Marquess) begged to say
the value of the Currency since 1793 to the present time, and the was assuming the whole question in issue. Ile (the Marquis)
consequent effect upon the money, income, and industry of the did not ask that Mr. Mushet's tables should be set aside at
emintly ; the amount of the Public Debt end Taxes, with re. once—he asked only for
and their ,In
r orscdererta that the subject m ;
bightut
ference to their money value, anti the elect which such ,changes be fully gone into,result ascertained correctly
have wrought upon all AI oney Contracts between individuals." whenever it was asked to revise Mr. Peel's Bill, it was
Mr. RICARDO agreed in many of die principles laid down said that the landholders wanted to rid themselves of this
by his Hon. Friend, but complained of the inferences he drew incumbrance, and were stigmatised as every thing that was
from must of the facts he advanced. The only difference of dishonourable. The term ** equitable adjustment" had been
-opinion between his Hon. Friend and himself was one of de. considered as equivalent to spoliation. The term had been much
greet first, as to the amount of the depreciation of the cur• used by a popular writer of great talents ; but he believed it
rency ; end next as to the alteration made by the change in was first used by the lion. Member for Norfolk (Mr. 'Wode.
the value of currency in the price of .commodities. It was house), at a Pitt dinner ; and be believed that that lion. Mem.
from seeing the evil consequences of the Bank of England, her was one of the last to be suspected, as an advocate for
having such formidable power as it had, that he desired to see spoliation.--4A lauetugh.)— to It
cash hadsaid, thatth wieturn e were
it put an end to, and therefore was one of those that, most ar. pledged to a return) payments on e of
'lowly pressed the Howes on to the adoption of some measure peace; but it never could be understood that this engage..
which should have the effect of restricting the inordinate issues rnent should be construed literally. Ile was satisfied that
of that body, and bring about a restoration to the ancient injustice was worked every day that Mr. Peel's Bill continued
standard of currency, front which they had so unfortunately in operation. Besides, the pledge in question was two-fold ;
eleparted. But as to the opinions attributed to hint, as re. for it was as much to the debtor as to the creditor ; it could
;gaoled the fluctuation* in the value of gold, he appealed to not possibly be performed literally, with Nth to both panic&
all who had heard him deliver his sentiments formerly, mind It wits said that the landholder haul received great benefit thug.
to every writing which had issued from his pen, whether lie ing the war ; butt this statement could not bear upon the q..
ima. not always said that gold watt a commodity subject to don unlees it was conuinded duit the niterest Marquis)landlord wee
the most extensive variations, to which it was impoesible °plumed to that of thefundholder. But he (the repeated
to apply any prospective provisions. Then, in itios, he that Inquiry was all that was asked, in order that both parties
tad said, that 'if the diffirence between the value of paper might be made to feel the pressure alike.
Be was prepared.
and gold' was a difference only of tive'per cone, then the pate. however,. to contend that the landholder was a atilleree during
ration that would be effected by the substitution of one article the war ; the depreciation, while it lasted, was total, and Inas
for the other would only be five . per cent. in the price of till terially affected the landholder. Ile could not deny that in.
-commodities. . The value of the currency :would always be in justice would be done by an interference at the present day
proportion to the quantity of it, end his project was always with Mr. Peel's Bill, het he believed duct few eontracts had
to diminish the quantity to the exact extent of the rots been made since that period without, some regard to a doubt
Alan. His opinion, however, had been given at that tints with of the principle of that Bill being retarded.—(Hear, hear 1)
!the supposiuon that what was called Peel's 11111 was the one to But all tampering with the currency was injustice, and it was
upaes, whereas the Bill actually carried ,was different from that the business of Government to make it fall as equally es pos..
measure. The charge against' him (Mr. Ricardo) was, that Bible. In the Year 11111, Mr. Henry Thornton (lie believed an
gold had altered In value. It had so, but why a Ileceite; from orthodox authority) had questioned the right generally, to in.
the manner of the passing of the Bill, the set their faces terfere with the currency, because the right once admitted,
against the due execution of it. • 'They carried all the gold to the temptation to exercise it would often be irresistible, and
the Mint, eagerly buying up all that Mile into the country with when exercised, would be always mischievous. The present
a view to diminish the circulation. It was inexissible any one question raised two points; the first was, the revolution of pro-
could forme this. He complained of the omission of his petty, which was now working; the second referred to our
If ononrable Friend to give them any insight into the effect foreign relations. As to the first, there could be no doubt
of withdrawing so much gold from 'other countries of that if the old aristocracy were to be destroyed, its place would
Europe. On, the contrary, he had rested his motion on be supplied, and the land would be filled as
heretofore; and
nothing but the alteration in the price of grain and of geld. it was not for hiinto say that the change would not be of advan.
This country was en importing country for corn, and the Ho. tage. Yet he believed lion. Gentlemen would not persevere
nourahle Member ought to have seen the absorption tit ca. in the present system, because it would destroy the aristo.
vital for so long a period in agriculture, with abundant her- ceacy. The Noble Lord react a document to prove the country
V.lita, had been the real cause of the fall of the price of corn.— Gentlemen were under a delusion in suppoeing that the price
The question wail, whether the burthen upon the agriculturist of wheat had decreased in the progres of the different wars.
was greater than the rest of the community bore. The lion. From documents which the Noble Lord read, it appeared that
Gentleman seemed to think that the stockholder had benefited wheat had risen after every peace at the rate of five per cent.—
by all the variations in the currency. ' But this was not the The country was notcondition to go to war—they were
fact; it might have been so, hut it was net, He (Mr. Ricardo) crippled by ahe debt. A financial convulsion would be a niat.
felt, assured lie should be able to 'thew that which the inock. ter of carteunty if ever the country engaged in an extensive
bolder had lost upon the 500 millionst'debt, before the depre. war. The landholder was against a war, because he knew in
,efetion commenced, was equal to the purchase' of an annuity, a state of national bankruptcy he must suffer, .and be extin.
tantamount to the depreciation in the vette of the currency.— geisha Ministers could not aesumea high tone with relipeCt.to
If it was so, the stockholder could have derived no be. war, well knowing that the state of the country might raise the
u vent. (In the other hand, lie wait prepared to maintaiii that question 'of the nationalconvinced ld
,depreclated currency its they had since felt disadVantage.— upon a large, scale. Whilst there was no danger of wax they had
( flea, Iteetr 1)-11e contended, therefore, that the lion. Gentle. an opportunity of considering the subject. -Here he could not
man's motion would in no respect benefit him' in the view avoi observing that the unprincipled attack on Spain could
. -which lie took. His Hon. Fnena said, ed, the change in the not have taken place had England said no. Of the wickedness
-, -value of the currency was thirty per cent. lie could not be- of the French Government no man could doubt, but us to the
Bove it was any thing like so much as that. Ile dedneed this 'effectual reeLstance against that wickedness there was doubt. If
.conclusion from the altered price of cOrn ; but if' it were really the Governinent of France established a new state of things in
--such as he had stated it, would not the saute altertithm be vi. Spain, it would be an union of the two branches of the Bour.
bible in all other commodities ? Would it not be apparent in bon family, and they would do what they : thought proper,
the Probate and Legacy duties,. and 11i the ad vakremStainps? . The despotism of Spain would .remain. The Bourbons ,of
Blithe found no such result. Then there was the general.3tate Spain would
commitco the most oppressive acts, end the see;
.of the Revenue, which dal not shear.ank such fact. His Hon. Mauls could is Whilst the French Bourbons were
Friend asked tutu whether the country could now bear an ex. ready to second the rule of Ferdinand. The
Minister of this
eienditure of 74 millions. He ought rather te have asked whe. Governn,ent were bound to talk largely of go ar ; but
ther, acconling to his own argnments, the country could holder that war could be
Ilea
on without tejury to the Fund.
hear an expenditure of fill millions. ' His anewer, liowever, was ridiculous. Ile might, however; say, to use a
we*, tiiat the country could how hoer' es much expendi. sOorting,expression, that Ministers,' considering the sorry jade
• ture, as if the Hon. Member's wish Were `ceininlied, -with. they had to ride, had rode skilfully....The.Member.,
The alteretion, ef the value of the currency made no chiller. for Portarling, ton 113 d said, the balance of /ewe was egainst
cartes in the aggregate power of die country. - They Might the fundholder ; he, however, strongly , suspected the balance
piernie.e a depreciation to the currency to the extent of fifty was against the landholder. With regard to a remedy for the
per cent. but even that. would in nu degree diminish the amount evil he thought an equitable arrangement of contract» would be
of the country. It would cause, it to change hands, but that of
linage.adeao Another remedy was lowering the standard be.
wee ell. Far be it from him to say lie would not deplore eny tweete at west depreciation, and when there was
such consequence, but so it suns, It had been advanced by no depreciation at all ; the other remedy was issuing bills as in
twine that 'to
depreciation of our currency entailed the Go. King:Williinn's time, and altering the standard from gold to
oernoierit to borrow money with More facility, and cootie. silver. '!'he last remedy had the countenance of a great States-
c uently carry on its operations with greater ease and vigour. man in the other branch of the Legislature. That Noble lord
But such a proposition he depecated, and always should was known to be an advocate for a standard of silver. Hie
oppose. With regard to his ionourtible Friend,* nablirite ',hope was, that landholders would not consent to a measure like
time he confessed that he entertained very different opinions that under discussion which was to sweep them to beggary.
from what he found recorded there. The H G Icon. e»tlemen bad Ministers should 'at least give that clues credit for a genuine
here no reference to the money we had paid off in elle depre. love of country.
dated currency. In the pamphlet published by the: Hon. Gen. Mr. Iticauno explained.
tleman, he appeared to blame the Ministers as much es the Mr. A. DARING said he was anxious to say a few words in
Whig*. With what grace, then, could the Hon. Gentlethen order to reconcile the vote he should give this night, with his
come clown and blame the House for an alteration of five per vote oil the same subject on a former occasion. It was im.
cent. when he himself would have supported measures Which possible to say, three years ago, that it was not a pioper time
would have caused an alteration of a much greater extent ? to change the currency, but all must allowe it was a question
The Hon. Gentleman bud himself, in the year 1010, urged in or flute. The Honourable Alember for Essex had done mitch
that House die very argumente it.) had lately been good by agitating the question. Ile differed with both partiee
advancing. if, therefore, he (Mr. It.) had acted upon'the in, on this subject. When the Bullion Committee made their re.
structione of the lion. entleman, it really was a little too port, he agreed with the Chairman as to the evil, but he twits
much to reproach him him it.—(A leugli.)—The Hon. Gen- fered with Tome& to the remedy. In the full tide of war it
denten, in his same pamphlet, bad spoken of the fundbolder in absurd to talk of coming et once to Bank Payments. In pro.
s which i Mr IL) did not like. He had eald that the portioe to the intricacies of the question, every Gentleman
fundholder was a robber of who wrote or spoke on the subject, became obstinate in his
lytewyilmjent- M cei.L.in 'case* to
ithe
t ernan had particularly referred own opinion: None, however, pointed out the remedy. If
the public. The Hon. Gen
to the labourer; but the labourer had rat ier gamed than , nothing could be done what use, it was asked, ould it be
lost by the present system- Besides, if an a.lteration of the cur. i to point out that person:lied been injured by past contracts?
Toney affected the valued labour one way, a affected it equally Ile shld anstier, that it would be useful to elicit to*"
in another. Then the Hon. Alember contended that the Bank and hod land marks, as it were, for posterity. He be '
had increased their issues, merely becausul.he dr d thought it would be an act of jostice to posterity to erase a,
leaderpaeenantlie.e delusions on the subject which appeared on their Journals. Ii
t woobillions to the Goverinnent to pey off the
Hut if, as appeared to be the case by the returns, the Govern-writings of' the Hon. Member for Portarlington should be
to.mt, out the other hand, contracted their issues to the atnotint ~read by posterity, it would appear that great delusions had
of twoinillions as to the rest of the community, what possible been peactisbed on the country. fie objected to going into a
etsraereteco eotild it make ? Ile gave every credit to the Hon. Committee because no practical good could be expected, but 1.0

often

felt that a crying injustice had "been ractised to persons not
knowing what was to happen to them: to persons who were
innocent as to the effect which a change in the currency might
produce. The Noble Lord had exposed to the House
what the result of tampering with the currency had pro- .
alma He was one who Was desirous of supporting the
Aristocracy as a part of the constitution ; but the Aristo-
Crecy • were not the only persons injured. The case of
private persons and poor farmers was distressing; many had
been reduced to beggary, without understanding the invisible
hand by which they had been struck down. What was the
cause of the depreciation ? His Honourable Friend would ad-
mit of none but the difference between gold and -paper. When
they turned out all the gold and silver, and used only paper,
gold and silver were depreciated. The first depreciation
of the precious metsds was the discovery of the mines in Ame-
rica : the next was the Banking system. 'Pule aliole empire
of Russia, the empire of- Austria, and other. States, also re-
sorted to paper currency. The depreciation had been occa-
sioned by the paper system, which was generally resorted to
by the most unjust Governments. Formerly when he proposed
to go into a Committee it was in the idea that the House might
go into the question of the silver currency without any in-
justice. Many of the evili had been imputed to the Right
Honourable Gentleman's Bill ; he really thought the country
would have felt the same difficulties if the 11111 had not
passed. The Honourable Member for Portarlington said, there
was no depreciation of personal property because the probat
duty had not decreased. 'The depreciation was felt by indlvi,
duals, and the rise or fall of the probat duties afforded no proof
that private property bad not suffered. If they were to go
into an adjustment of debts it would lead to endless inquiry.
On the great question of silver, which he was desirous of intro-
ducing some years ago,
,he felt it important, because
.gold cur:
rency would not carry on a war. Before two campaigns they
would have recourse to:paper. If they had a silver currency
they would have a probability of returning to paper. The Bank
would o better to work With silver. That circulation would
have given them the ancient circulation of' the country, In
IVA the change to a silver standard would have given relief,
and the. evils which,ensited might have been avoided. He en-
tered his protest against tampering with the currency.
Mr. WODEHOINF, use to speak.
"Lord FOLKSTONE however rose at the sante inotnent, and
moved to adjourn the debate to this day.
Mr. CANNING proposed Tuesday.
A conversation then ensued between Mr. Bnotraupf, Sir
J. MACKINTOSH, Mr. G. BEN NET, and others, on the subject
of the business which stood on order.
Mr. CANNING finally gave up his opposition, in considera-
tion of Mr. Western haVing yesterday given way to his Right
Hon. Friend. '
The Debate was then adjourned till this day, and the motion
of which Mr. lIUME had given notice, was postponed to the
ith instant.
The other Orders of the Day were disposed of, and the
'Cuss adjourned at Two o'CLocx. this Morning.
•

PARIS PAPERS.

[Prom the Pikte of Tuesday.]

PUYCERnA, MAY 31.—They write to us from
Vich, under dateof the Sth, that at day-break,
on the ‘26th, Min's, with 3,000 infantry and 300
cavalry, attacked that town, which at the time
contained but few troops., Both sides 'fought
with great fury for, six liours, Zorraquin, chief
of Mina's staff, was severely wounded, and
Mina, with 3,000 men, moved in the direction of
La Pobla.—During the whole of the Mh we
were in the greatest alarm here (at Puycerda),
having been informed that the army of Mina was
at La Pobla and Bagun. 'We were ignorant of
the cause of his retreating upon that point, and
knew not whether he would take the direction of
Puycerda or the Seo. We were not informed of
the real state or things until about eight o'clock
at night. NVe then 'learned that Mina, after the
affair at Vich, had taken the direction of La
Pobla, followed by the Baron d'Eroles. We
learned on the morning of the 30th, that he
thought on OA 29th of moving on the Seu, by
13agua end Fournes, and that a part of the divi-
sion of Lieutenunt•General Donnadieu had ap-
peared in the direction of Berga. In the night
of the 30th we' were informed that the Baron
d'Eroles had tirrived at Bagua; that Mina had
posted hitnse,lf at Fournes, part of his army
being in that town, part at Touchen, and part at
Cornellan.

JUNE is certain that 'Willa entered la

Seo d'Urgel last night.
PritemNAN, JUNE L—Affairs in Catalonia
assume a serious aspect, Few days have passed
since the 22d May without some fighting. We
have seen arrive here to-day prisoners taken in
the number of 29., not in-
several. engagements, to

...... .
who came in a • carriage
cluding three o Merl,
called a lartanne; they
are nil well clothed.---
Two other prisoners, said to be 1.-ench officers,
gn legion, have been belonging to th - foreign
de-
tained at Gerona, doubtless to be. tried there.—
Among the three Spanish officers is •an orderly
otlicer of Milaw, who fell into the hands of the
bth mounted chasseurs, when bearing some orders
from his general.
TEIAGRA
PARIS, JUNE 9.
PHIC DISPATCH.
TILEIWAJOIt-GENERAL TO .lIIS EXCELLENCY THE .3IINI.
• STEIt OF WAR.

31Annin, JUNE 9.—TEN
• " A -reconnoissance of General La Roche Jacquelin over-
threw on the 2d of .Tme a corps of the enemy of a thousand
men, near Astorga. It killed and wounded 30, end took 150
prisoners among whom area Major-General and a Lieutenant-
Colonel."

[frorn the journal de Pori: of Monday.],
,4„ DECLARATION.
" We Louis Antoine d'Artois, son of France, Duke of An-
gouleme, General-in-Chief of the French Army in Spain ;
In pursuance of. our Decree of the 23d instant; directing
that the Councils of Cistile and the Indies be convoked, for the
purpose of proceeding te the election of the members rho should
form the Regency of the kingdom
' "In pursuance or' the TesellitiOn‘ adopted by,tlfe Asitembled
Councils, under the same date, purporting that the Councils did
not consider themselves authorized by the laws of the kingdom
tu` elect a Regency, txtft that they thought it their duty to pre-
sent to us a list of did persons who appeared to them the most
proper for that high office
" In pursuance of .the list presented' to us on the 24th, in
execution of this resblution, and containing the following
names,
" The Duke of Infantado; the Duke of Montcmart, the
Baron d'Eroleti, the 'Bishop of Osnt, Don "Antonio Gomez
Calderon ;
" We declare in the name of his Majesty. the' King of
France, our Lord and Uncle,, that we recognize the above-
named Members as eimiposing the Regency of the kingdom,
during the captivity of his Majesty King Ferdinand VII.
" Given at our head-quarters, Madrid May 25.
" LOUIS ANTOINE.
(Countersigned) "DE MARTIGNAC, Councillor of
State and Chit -Commissioner of Ids Most . Christian
Majesty."
(EXTRACT or A LETTER rim)!. SEVILLE.)
SEVILLE, MAY 22.—Geueral Villa Campa will embark to-
morrow in a steam-boat for Cadiz. It is supposed that he is
charged with the necessary preparations for the King'ii re-
ception.
A small 'vessel has been seized in the Guadalquiver, which,
it is thought, was intended for tarrying off the Kin ; in con.
sequence of which all the guards in the palace were doubled.
The dispositions of the people still continue to be excellent.
Those engaged in maritime pursuits are equally animated with
the best spied.
The English Ambassador hasuffered an asylum in Gibraltar
for such Members of Cortes as are most exposed.
[From the Con4ttntionnel.l
PARIS, JUNE 9-.—Every thing is now a matter
for boasting. 'rhe Etude relates that a courier
coming from Madrid, was stopped in Spain by
two highway robbers, who limited themselves to