The Sun.
London, England, 1824-05-26 00:00:00

JOINT STOCK COMPANIES.

The Earl of LAUDERDALE wished to fixa time for tak-
ing the Standing Orders of the House into consideration, with
the view of making an addition to them. His object in doing so,
was to put an end- to that kind of speculation which had lately
prevailed to such an extent in the Metropolis, or at least to se-
cure the public against the formation of unsafe Joint Compa-
nies. He should therefore propose that certain steps should be
required in the passing; of such Bills which would establish
the efficiency of the ampany applying to be incorporated. In
those established for making canals or building bridges, it was
clear that a great portion of' the capital must be realized at
once, in order to pay the expences of the works, but that was
not the case in those of a charitable nature, which might be set
on foot with little more than a nominal capital. What he
sh6uld propose would therefore be no hardship in the first case,
and would give the public ample security in the second. lie
had put it in the shape of two resolutions to be afterwards in-
serted amongst the Standing Orders. The first related to New
Companies applying to be incorporated : the second to Com-
panies which being already incorporated should apply for fur-
ther privileges. By the first it would be resolved that after the
first reading 'of all Bills incorporating Companies for navigation,
Canals, Railways, 'runnels, Bridges, Archways, Harbours, or
for Lighting, Paving, and Watching any Town or l'arish, &c.
&c., such Bills be referred to a Select Committee, and not
allowed to be read a second time unless that Committee should
have reported that four-fifths of the Capital was deposited in
the Bank of England, or vested in Exchequer Bills or other
PUblic Securities in the names of the Trustees. By the second
it would be resolved that after the first readings of all Bills for
granting farther privileges to incorporated Companies, such
Bills be also referred to a Select Committee and not allowed to
be read a second time unless that Committee should have re-
ported that all debts and capital had been paid up by the
individual Proprietors, and were in possession of those en-
trusted by the Royal Charter with the management of the
affairs of the said Companies. The Noble Hari having read
his resolutions, gave notice that he should move them to-
morrow, and moved that th,:ir Lordships be summoned.—
Ordered.

The Earl of DARLINGTON presented a petition from
the Tradesmen, Bankers, and Inhabitants of Winchelsea in
favour of the County Courts Bill.
EXCISE OATHS.
The Marquis of LANSDOWN stated, that until a late
period, the Act of Charles the Second for preventing persons
from intermeddling with the Excise, unless they had previously
taken the oaths of allegiance and supremacy, had been put in
force. He understood however that this was no longer the case,
and that in many instances those oaths had been dispensed with
and officers admitted, without taking them into the Excise.—
He rejoiced at the fact of such oaths being dispensed with, but
wished to know whether any instructions had been issued on
the subject, and for that purpose should move for an account
of the oaths taken by persons serving in the Excise under the
12th and 15th of Charles
IL, and for any instructions issued
upon the subject since 1822.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL
admitted that by the 12th of
Charles IL all persons were required, before executing certain
duties its the Excise, to take the Oaths of Allegiance and Su-
premacy. In the course of the last year an Act had passed con-
solidating the English and Irish Excise and much alarm had
been experienced in Ireland, and it had' been represented as a
serious grievance, that individuals who had for years been in-
vested with situations in the Excise of that country, on being
before. No regular instructions
pelled to take oaths to which
htt rhaaedny s
been
had
t einsdso
titU:
Id 3t
chei
on
n, s stuhhbeomus lit tit lbt
ejbdeec ct o m
, but it had been thought de-
sirable that an arrangement should be quietly made to the effect
mentioned by the Noble Marquis, by which undoubtedly the
oaths were not administered, but the individuals were com-
pletely indemnified by the Introduction into the Annual In-
demnity Bill of the 12th of Charles 11. Be had however
given directions that an Act should be prepared conform-
able with what lie thought proper with respect to certain
offices, which would remove all doubts and difficulties upon
the subject.
The Marquis of LANSDOWN observed, that as the An-
nual Indemnity Bill always passed as a matter of course, he
was not aware whether the alteration made in it indemnified
the individuals in question. He wished the Noble Earl would
state what it was.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, that in former Acts of In-
demnity, the 12th of Charles 11. had not been mentioned amongst
those, for non-compliance with which parties were indemnified.
In the one for the present year, that Act had been inserted.—
That was all the alteration which had been made.
Lord KING doubted whether the Noble Earl would be able
to carry the Bill which he had given directions to .draw. In
former times, whatever the First Lord of the Treasury chose
to introduce was sure to pass, but now-he was very likely to
suffer another discomfiture, for the Noble and Learned Earl on
the Woolsack held divided empire with him.
" Divisum imperium cum Jove Cesar habet."
He would give Cesar a little advice t it was to get the House
to give Caesar the votes that were Caesar's, or else he would
find the Noble and Learned Earl dthant, not refreshed with
sleep or wine, but refreshed by two .victories and eager for
more. There were Englishmen, Irishmen, and Scotchmen in
that House, all looking to discover to whom the " imperium"
belonged. Let the Noble Earl take care--he had a Minister-
dispelling Chancellor, who having called an administration to-
gether by a stroke of his pen, could dissolve them by another
stroke.
After a few observations from Viscount CLIFDEN and Earl
DARNLEY,
Lord 110 L LA ND expressed his astonishment that the clause
added to the Indemnity Bill should not have attracted the at-
tention of the guardians of the law in that House. The great
stones of the sacred structure were kept untouched, but the
pebbles of it were suffered to be pecked at by inferior clerks.
—Arrangements were quietly effected, and Officers Indemni-
fied for breaches of the law surreptitiously made, which James
Second had been driven from the throne for dgoing openly. He
did not disapprote of what had been done, but he wondered
that the Noble Earl, sitting in a Cabinet so tremblingly alive
to the dangers of the Establishment, should have ventured
to do it. A Noble Friend of his had inquired where was the
seat of authority in that House? That was as difficult to find
as the seat of the soul in the body. Some, with good old aris-
tocratical notions, supposed that every Member had a share of
it. He had once fancied that it resided in the brains of the
House, but he was no longer of that opinion. He had thought
,
of the benches opposite, which were now so empty, but he
supposed, after all that the Epicurean doctrine must be
adopted, and that that "aura divina," that breath of life,
must rest some way or other on neither side, but towards
the middle, "in media regime," about the waist, perhaps on
that woolsack or on that stool. However this inquiry was
more important for the Noble Earl than fsr any one else. It

must be any thing but diversion or pleasantry to him ; for those
who were bumped and kicked found it a very disagreeable
amusement or spectaculum in the morning: When a Noble
Friend of his had last night made a motion consonant with the
best principles of the Constitution, the Noble and Learned Lord
had been tremblingly alive to the dangers of the State and Es-
tablishment ; but when the first Minister of the Crown told
the House, that clerks of the Excise had been surreptitiously
exempted from the Oath of Supremacy, and thus undermined
the Church, that intelligence was received with very good hu-
mour, and no cry was raised of peril to the Church. What
then had become of that supremacy of which the Noble and
Learned Lord was so jealous the night before ? and how was
it that he could hear it related with complete indifference that
such oaths had been secretly dispensed with ? The whole of
the laws ought to be put on an intelligible footing. He (Lord
Holland) wanted to know whether any thing else bad been in.
demnifled. The whole system was one of contumely and per-
jury, and rested on this : I am dressed with a little brief autho-
rity, and I will drive my superiority over my fellows.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL explained, that indemnifying
persons for not taking the Oath of Supremacy and the Sacra-
ment was regularly done, and had been done every year for a
century. It was the regular practice of Parliament. For no
reason, however, and in a most extraordinary manner, the
Act of Charles 11. had hitherto be-en omitted in Bills of In-
demnity. There was no motive for this, for why should
the Acts relative to the Customs have been inserted, and not
those respecting the Excise ? By mentioning the P2th ry?
Charles 11., together with the other Acts, therefore, no al-
terations had been made in the Indemnity Act; but an omis-
sion had been rectified. He conceived, however, that, in the
present state of our revenue, it would be more proper that
there should be an uniform law for the service of the whole of
its branches:
Lord HOLLAND had imagined that the Indemity Act did
not relieve from the necessity of taking oaths, but only from
that of taking the Sacrament according to the forms of the
Church of England, as required by the Test Act. He hoped
that in its present state it would be found to indemnify the
persons in the Excise who had not taken the oaths, but how
would it cover those whose duty it was to cause them to be
taken ? This practice proved one thing, however : that if the
oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy might be dispensed with,
they were not as necessary as the House were told by high
authority they were. The Noble Lord concluded by quoting
Lord Somers's recorded opinion, that not to be permitted to
serve one's King and Country, was a punishment which ought
to be inflicted only for a detestable crime. The Roman Catho-
lics of England were now suffering that punishment without
having committed any crime, and to subject them to it was a
most crying and disgusting injustice.
The Marquis of LANSDOWN was not at all satisfied,
even after the explanation of the Noble Earl, that the Idem-
nity Act covered the persons in authority who had countenanced
the evasion of the oaths. He approved of the oaths not being
required, but he asked their Lordships whether it was possible
to do that by a side wind, which he contended ought only to he
done directly and openly ? For the purpose of ascertaining the
practice as it stood at present, he should persevere in calling for
information.
Earl ROSSLYN contended, that if the persons whose duty
it was to enforce the oaths had consented to their evasion, they
had been guilty of a misdemeanour.
The motion was then agreed to.
NEWFOUNDLAND.

Earl BATHURST postponed the third reading of the New.
foundland Marriage Bill to next Friday.—Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
EQUITABLE LOAN COMPANY.
Mr. MANSFIELD presented a petition from the
Pawn-
brokers of Leicester against the Equitable Loan Company
Bill.—Ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. WHITBREAD presented a petition to the same effect
from several Pawnbrokers of Middlesex.—Ordered to lie on
the table.

On a motion that the petitioners should be heard by Counsel
against the Bill.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM opposed the motion, on the ground
that Counsel for and against the Bill had been fully heard in
the Committee.

Sir F. BURDETT supported the motion, observing that his
opinion was generally unfavourable to Incorporated Companies
The Company alluded to by this petition pretended also to be-
nevolent feelings, though many of its members had sold their
shares at a, premium, making some substantial gain from their
benevolence.—(A laugh.)
The motion was then agreed to.
Sir F. ST.BURD/TT e MpArelsil:ited a
petition f
, ISLINGTON.rom several
inha-
bitants of St. Mary, Islington, against the Bill entitled "
Bill for the Improvement of that Parish."—Ordered to lie on
the table.
Mr. BYNG moved the third reading of the above Bill.
Sir J. GRAHAM supported the Bill, which had for its
principal object the limiting the number of the Select Vestry.
The Bill was also opposed by Mr. IlonnotisE and Mr.
HusiE ; and supported by Mr. PORTMAN and Mr. BYNG,
and was read a third thou without a division.
Sir F. BURDETT then rose to move an addition to the Bill
of two clauses, which, as it now stood, would deprive upwards
of 2000 persons from their right of voting at the Vestry. The
first clause was for giving the right of voting to all persons as-
sessed at 16/. a year ; and the next was to provide for election
of Members of the Select Vestry every three years. On the
question for reading the first clause.
Sir J. GRAHAM, Mr. Alderman SMITH, Mr. T. WILSON,
Mr. LAMB, and Mr. SUMNER, opposed, and Mr. N. CAL.
VEB T and Sir R. WILsoN supported the clause.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the Clause 37
Against it - 47
Majority - - - —lO
In our absence a Division took place on the Second Clause,
proposed by Sir F. BuRDETT, to provide for the Election of
Governors every three years, there appeared—

For the Clause - - -
61
Against it - - 39
Majority
- -22

The Bill was passed.
A new Writ was ordered for Oakhampton in the room of
Lord DUNALLY, who had accepted the Chiltern Hundreds.
The British and Foreign Alliance Assurance Company was
read a third time and passed.
JOINT STOCK COMPANIES.
On the question for the third reading of the Patriotic Assu-
rance Company of Ireland Bill,
Mr. GRENFELL objected to the provisions of the Bill,
which proposed to limit the responsibility of the Proprietors.
At present they were all liable to the amount of their shares ;
but in case of this or any other Company being about to fail,
the shares might be transferred to men of straw. He wished to
be satisfied on this point.
Mr. HERRIES said the question was too important to be
answered without'the aid of the highest legal authority.
Mr. BRIGHT and Mr. HUME thought the Bill ought not
to pass until this point had been cleared up.
Mr. S. RICE spoke a few words in support of the Bill, which
was then passed.
ST. KATHERINE'S DOCK.
Mr. HUME presented a petion from St. Katherine's against
the St. Katherine's Dock Bill.—Referred to the Committee on
the Bill.
Mr. LESTER presented a petition from Poole against Negro
Slavery. Ordered to lie on the table.
A Message from the Lords here announced their Lordships'
Assent to several Bills. - _ _

BUTTER TRADE.
Mr. T. WILSON gave notice, that on Thursday next, he
should move for leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the Butter
Trade of Ireland•
CATHOLICS.
Mr. DOHERTY presented a petition from the Catholics. of
New Ross,praying for relief against their legal disabilities,—
Ordered to is on the table.