The Sun.
London, England, 1847-04-27 00:00:00

EDUCATION.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL, in moving the order of the
day for receiving the report on the educational grant,
said he wished to explain a matter personal to himself,
and an Honourable Friend of his in that House on a
former night. His Hon. Friend the Member for Car-
lisle stated the other evening, that on the 14th or 15th
of this month an application was made on the part of
the Catholic bishop. to have an interview with him on
the subject of the educational plan, before its introduc-
tion into that House, but he declined to grant it.
—(Hear, hear.) Now he begged leave to 'state
that he should be very sorry to be supposed to have been
guilty of any want of courtesy towards the Catholic
bishops, and he therefi)re begged to state what really did
occur on the 9th. On that day, just after attending the
Cabinet Council, and as he was on the point
of going a few miles out of town to spend the
Sunday, carrying with him a large bundle of pamphlets
on education, he received the letter of Bishop Griffiths,
read by his Honourable Friend. Certainly he under-
stood that letter to allude to the subject of the edu-
cation of the children of poor Catholics, but as he
had to bring forward the plan on the Monday following.
and there was no time for him to give the interview, or
to make any alteration in the minutes that had then
been agreed to, he wrote the reply wkich his
Honourable Friend read on Friday. Having stated
thus much with regard to a matter entirely of a
personal nature, he begged leave to say, in moving the
order of the day for the reception of the report, that he
hoped it would be fully understood that there was no in-
tention whatever on the part of Government to
exclude Catholics from the benefit of this grant ;
but fresh minutes would have to be pro-
posed upon that subject before the question could
be brought before the House i❑ a formal manner.

Thi3 would make provision for all persons in holy
orders, not only regular clergymen but also Dissent-
ing clergymen. But he understood that in the Romish

Church —there were persons in orders, although
they were not in holy orders, but who were engaged
in the business of education. It was readily
understood that these minutes did not cont:qtt-
plate any provision for them, but he quite
agreed that the Romish Church should net be excluded.—
(Hear, hear.) But whether there would be any imme-
diate opportunity to frame minutes he could not say, but
avery attention would be paid to the subject, and
minutes should be made, and a different measure would
be brought in to grant allowance for the purposes of
edueati.n to Elia members of the Romish Church.
Sir G. CLERK wished to know whether, in the con-
sideration of the subject, any regard had been had to
the position of the parochial schoolmasters of Scotland.
He wished, therefore, in the first place, to ask the Noble
Lord whether those schoolmasters were to participate di-
rectly in the present grant, and whether they were to be
entitled to receive pupil teachers into their schools;
secondly, whether their salary was to be increased; and,
thirdly, whether the parochial schoolmasters of Scotland
were to he entitled to any retiring allowance after a cer-
tain period of service 2
Lord J. I:USSELL said that as this subject had not
yet been submitted to the consideration of the Committee
of the Privy Council, the answer that he might
give would only express his own opinions. The grant
now under the consideration of the House
did not contemplate giving any aid except in cases of
voluntary effort, so that the parochial schoolmasters of
Scotland would not in any way participate in the present
grant, but their relief would better constitute a part of
a future measure.

WASTE LANDS IN IRELAND.
Mr. FIUME observed that it was proposed by Government
to ask for leave to bring in a Bill to apply for a sum for the
improvement of waste lands in Ireland. Ile trusted that the

measure would be brought on in time to allow of the discussion
of the important principles involved in it.

Lord JOIIN RUSSELL had no objection to bring it for-
ward early in the evening.
The order of the day for bringing up the report was then
read.

Sir WILLIAM MOLESWORTII, in bringing forward his
motion, " That any measures of the Committee of the Privy
Council on Education, or other regu!ations, which exclude
Roman Catholics from participating in any grant of public
money for purposes of education, by requiring in all schools
which receive such grants of public money the We of the au-
thorisud version of the Scriptures, are inexpedient anti ought to
be rescinded," said that he had a petition from above 3,000
Roman Catholic schoolmasters in Manchester, complaining
of the operation of the Bill, and its exclusion of

themselves' from the advantages given to the
other religious persuasions of the country. The
simple object of his motion was to malt, the measure of
the Government—which many thought a partial one—one to
enable the Government to impart some of the public aid
to the Roman Catholics. It might be said, however, that the
Roman Catholics did not need external aid, fur they had never
made education an object of their consideration. But he was
certain that they stood more in need of aid than any other sec-
tion of the population. He asked the House to consider what
accommodation the Roman Catholic population in the manu-
facturing districts possessed. He bad received papers from
Manchester, "which fully confirmed the statements made in the
House the other night by an Hon. Member. The lion. Gen-
tleman proceeded to read documents at some length. in
Liverpool there was at least 20,000 children of Roman Ca-
tholtes, a great proportion of whom were not receiving edu•
cation. In Middleton there were 6,000 Roman Catholics in

•••• • l•
the same position. Bolton, Stockport, and the metropolis
were in the same position, London alone contained from
150,000 to 200,000 Roman Catholics. In the east district of

London there were 20,000 Roman Catholics' with 2,000 children,
and only 800 were receiving education. In Finsbury there were
30,000 Catholics, of whom but 500 children were being edu-
cated out of 2,000. In Marylebone only 800 children of the
Roman Catholics were receiving education out of 3,000, be-
longing to a population of 30,000. In Chelsea but 200 chil-

dreii o'iit of 1,060 were being educated. In the Borough which
he represented, Southwark, there were 40,000 Catholics, with
4,000 children, and only 100 were receiving any education.
In Lambeth the number of Catholic children was 1000,of which
but 150 were receiving education. Great Britain had been esti-
mated to contain 1,500,000 Roman Catholics,though 800,000 he
thought nearer the number, and out of 65,000 children
belonging to them, not more than 30,000 were edu-
cated ; leaving 35,000 without any education at all.
It had been stated that no application had been made for assist-
ance by Roman Catholics ; but this was an error, for last
summer an application was made by the Hon. Mr. Langton, to
the Council, tor a grant in aid of certain schools, in a very poor
district in the neighbourhood of Landport, which was not
favourably entertained. In the reply, it was stated that the
minutes to be adopted required the daily reading of the Scrip-
tures. But then this involved the reading of the whole of the
Bible. This wss the injurious system of the Government, and
only the other day a meeting was held, at which three of the
most respectable Roman Catholic Bishops were present, and
where the Earl of: Shrewsbury presided, a resolution was
unanimously passed condemning the scheme of the Govern-
ment. lie must say that it was his belief that the Roman
Catholics had been sacrificed in order to still the opposition of
the Dissenters. After the speeches of the Noble Lord
the Member for West Yorkshire ( Lord Morpeth), the
Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth (Sir R.
Peel ), and the Noble. Lord the Member for London (Lord
J. Russell), he must express his disappointment. Even had
the Roman Catholics neither asked aor required assist-
ance, they were fully entitled to a benefit from
the State, and no difference ought to have been
made in this country between Catholics and Protestants,
especially as Catholicism and Protestantism had ceased to be the
representatives of despotism and Protestantism. No more
than he could understand the feelings of the slave owner in the
southern estates of America, whose life and property depended
upon the education of his slave, and yet it was refused, did he
understand the principles of the state, who after admitting
Roman Catholics to the functions of the Legislature in both
that and the other House of Parliament, and to those of the
highest offices under Government, refused to grant to them the
minor rights to which they were entitled. The Right Hon.
Gentleman, the Member for Edinburgh, described this as a
system of perfect impartiality, and he appealed to future ages,