The Sun.
London, England, 1847-01-21 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY MORNING, JANUARY 21, 1847.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF COMMONS, Jan. 20.
The House met shortly before 'Four o'clock.
N.E W WRIT.
!A new %Tits on the motion of Mr. PARKER, w?,-
rdered for the election of a Member for Middlesex ii
ute room of the late Mr. Byng.
NORTH KENT RAILWAY.
An 'fox. ME3IBER gave notice of his intention
4311 a future day to move for leave to bring in a 13111 to
construct several branches from the North Kent Rail-
way.

IRON SHIPS OF WAR.
Mr. R. 1701iIii.: wished to ask the Secretary to the
Admiralty wht-tber it was true that sixteen iron ships of
war had been rde ••ed without previous irquiry of their
powers and effiei,uicy for the , ervice. Also, whether the
report of the Admiralty of Frivice, irhowitig the utter
inefficiency of iron ships for tee purposes of warfare, Nie.,s
not in possession of the G-)vernment at the time the said
ships were ordered.
Mr. WARD said the best reply he could give to the
Hon. Gentleman was, that the iron steam-ships to which
he referred, were ordered by the House last session, on
the motion of an lion. Memb,,r opposite. He believed
that no report had been made to the Admiralty of
Frsr.ce seitinr forth the utter inefficiency of iron ships
for the purposes of v.:at:ire, and that no experiments
had yet been made by the naval authorities of either
country to test their rty.,eity.
Mr. WILLIAMS wished to be informed whether the
progress of the iron steamers, which had been f)rdered,
had been au-ipended?
Mr. WARD rephed, but was not audible in the gal-
lery.

LAW OF SETTLEMENT.
enlonel WOOD presented a ow:ition from Brecknock
trinst the present law of-settleh.ent, and praying that
al: P"" 'night be t.kon under the care 01 the State ;
"rich a petition from the same place, pr,ying that the
poor-law might be made more efiePtrcii.
MALT AND HOP—LICENSE:
On the ,
motion of Alderman HUMPHERY.
• the lid-
,owmg returns were ordered :—An account of the tot,l
numbers of quarters of malt made between the 10th day
.%t, October, 1845, and the 10th day of Octot,er, 1846,
the quantity
the quantity made in each country, a.'
, quantity used by brewers. and victual'ers, and retail
4eiwtehrsdt•
ar. An acc,Aint of the total number of acres
an
in Great Britain under the cultivation of hops
1846, distinguishing the number of
Off e'' "4, ht each parish. An account of the duty
en,,f,Nos of the growth of the year 1846, dia.
is, 'ling the districts, and the old from the new
reff: t
An account of the quantity of hops exported from
Jr~Britain to foreign countries from the sth day of
i„,7llBtrY,. 184$, to the sth day of January. 1847,
ittuag the countries to which the same have been ex-
and also the quantities to each country ; also
i"ea from foreign growths, and the dates of the years
al'enich the British hops were grown. An account of
'keign hops imported into the United Kingdom from the
th day of January, 1946, to the sth day of January,
4847, distinguishing the ports where imported, and the
tOuntries from whence exported. An account of the
tOtil number of pounds weight of hops charged with
duty in each of the several collections of the United
kingdom in the year 1846. An account of the number
Of persons in each of the several collections in the United
m licensed as brewers, victuallers, to sell beer
to be drunk on the premises, and to sell beer not to be
drunk on the premises, stating the number of each class
who brew their own beer, and the quantity o, malt con. '
slimed by them particularising each class in each collec
ttin,From the I,oth day of Oct., 1845, to the 10Ai day of
OCt., 1846.

AGRICULTURAL STATISTICS.
Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN wished to ask whether
the Government had fulfilnd 'Le vromise made through
the Rig•hi 110... Gentleman the V.ce•President of the
Board tit Tr tl. (\ 1- M Gitiso• ). Hint direct, d i heir atten-
ti.irt to the subject of' agricultural statistics during the
to e s, ~ed nh ',et. ill: y propeeed bringing toward
sus m asure on the -object ?
Mr. M. eiliaSON replied that the subject had re
ceived the atteistien of the Goverument during the
rccuiss, anit that a m• asure was now in pi ogres e h la,
e hen some of its details had le en decided en, woule be
laid belt, e th•• El.tuse—t,e ho,-,eil on an early day.
LIBSsARY (.1 'IIIM I , TEE.
On the motion to Se. R. EL 1 NIG Lie, the following
C"mmirlr't' is as sppe;ntee to asost Mr. Seeaker in the
direction of the Library, and all matters relating
to it:—Sir R. H. Inglis. Nit.. Chancellor of the Exche
quer, Lord John Russell, Sir Robert Peel. Mr. G..ulburn.
Mr. W. Wynn, the Lord Advocate. Mr Shaw, Viscount
Palm'raton, Viscount Mahon, Major-General Fox, Mr.
Solicitor-General, Mr. Pendarves, Mr. Acland, Sir W.
Somerville, and Ale. Monckton Milnes.
On the motion of Sir H. INGLIS, leave of absence
to Mr. Colquhoun' tor two months, on account of ill
health, was granted.
POOR-LAW.
Captain PECHELL moved for a return from each
poor-law union and p -rie I in England and ;Wales of
the number of non-resieent families and persons who
were in receipt of relief on the 26th day of
August, 1846, distinguishing those who have since
become chargeable to the unions and parishes
in which they were residing at that period.
He said the r, turn referred to the extraordinary lope-
rati,n of a Bill passe-I last session, entitle:l the Poor-
law Removal Bill, the working of which had proved
most injurious to the poorer classes. It, hid
created the greatest consternation in the coun-
try, and had benefited none save the legal
authorities connected with the various unions, who, in
fsc , w- re living upon plunder deny d from the poor.
The non-resident had been harshly treated, and had in
many cases had relief altege: her suspended so far
as they were concerned.—(Hear, hear). There were
several persons now thrown upon the humane
guardians of certain unions for whom they had no
no right to provide, and the Gilbert Union, at the pre-
sent moment, paying both ways. By the operation of this
Act, no less than 1,110 families, consisting of 1,621 persons,
had been thrown upon the Gilbert Union at an expense
of 285.!. per week. In the town of Brighton, wi:h which
he was connected, no less than 1,452 persons had been
thrown upon the rates, and the guardians of that
union, rather than re:use these poor people as-
sistance in their necessity, or of litigating the
case, and votuntarily undertaking their support of the
expectation that the House of Commons would pas,
some measure, during the present session, for their
relief from this oppression. He could not help think•
ing this was a matter which might have been introduced
into her Majesty's Speech, for certainly it was
of much more importance than the County Courts Bill.
On the 19th of January it might well be supposed that
the state of Ireland would occupy a prominent posioon
in hi r Mejeste's Speech ; but even that, he considered,
a subject not param'unt to the alteration of the poor-
law. He trusted that the G vernment would grant
these returns, as it was fully expected that the House
Sir c. N THE NAVY. of Coons would grant the relief which was so
toov APIER gave notice that to-morrow he should earnestly sousht.
ithe f,r a return of the numbsr of line-of-battle ships 'll-. Bo NKES said that it was with great pleasure he
sibi,ic :h
had been cut down to frigates and steam contract seconded the mutton which had just been made, and he
or r He should also move, at the same time, for a return •ook that opportunity of giving notice of an intention
shone hlPaher of seamen which the Channel fleet was which he had had previously of bringing a forma pro-
f i - tel n their complement at the present time.
NEW ZEALAND. position before the House, arid on Friday next, he pro-
tMr, post d to do it in the shape of an amendment to the
er'
enfsgeAWES brought up the return of the Corn- .notion of the Noble Lord, in which he should submit to
affairs of New Zealand.
Mr. Jon,, SESSIONAL ORDERS. the House a proposition for the immediate repeal of the
Poor-law, which was at that moment doing the greatest
borndseinreNssad s`i PARKER moved the usual sessional mischie: in the country. He held in his td a petition
=ion for - 4 resolution for the arrangement of public from his own earish, which had been greatly injured,l in
in respact of orders and notices, and a resolu- the county lie represented, by the operation of this aw,
7ae::ire.tltinitrtrntirtoe rens ionng sittings on Wednesday.—Agreed to. and he believed that in a few days he shouldhave
that .l-trr moved, amongst the sessional orders, petitions from almost every parish in that county,
Private Bills, as well as on Rail- speaking of this petition, which he should take that op-
nor .n ~ Bills,
consist of five Members, neither personally portunity of presenting to the House ; it purported to
interested in the question submitted to be with reference to the leas; important, portion of the
ttitlleit.sotnsiderenee, This system had been triad during evd, viz., it tied reference to the additional burthen
cothausiisttwaoef.asiletnw;
was
and it was found to work so efficiently thrown upon the rtve-payers, while the more important
veto ilinsas at present proposed to extend it to all pri pertion by far was that adverted to by the
proposed that the Committee should lionourabie Member who just spoke, viz., the ge-
diced ,e five independent, unbiassed, and unprejos neral injury inflicted upon the poor. Ile believed
Rills 70 mbers, in no one way interested in the that those who ventursd to suggest objections to
Kos be
submitted to their consideration'.
Would s_ . Gentlemen certainly might object tLat it this Bill when it pissed—he was one who suggested
loefeeittianutee..better for those who had local knoeledge and many atnendments, every one of which was negative 1—
inter to sit on Committees, where the subject' and those who premeted the BM had no conception of
the mischief it would create. For that reason he should or
opirifolocal matters were tried •; but he certainly was
that they would be more likely to be of ser-
illrto.
,h_neir constituents as witnesses than as judges. be acting inconsistently wits, his duty if he did
~.....U.Ol-t N E LI: concurred fully in the 1 : t n t take the earliest opportunity possible of sub-
t)l re-
the mitting te the flouselleth,shenirdm
jeiediaatneswanerdedtobtayl
the e min (sees,
al r. rsii • seesteman, and would second tha motion. Noble Lord that the question of whether the measure
eious . °THERTON thoueht that it would b.- i: judi- htjheectse,wmhsitcilituhtiennp:nots
whs._ (,) adopt changeS in this matter. At the time
ot:lntense Speaker and other gentlemen recommended
tzheitastewcla; si"E`leu
whichrdt::es" u'
shouldshould offer to,afestebr. the
1t0(0;. otom,!,emtei Oetnesesi'due rai o n o f the
ouwin there was quite a different mode adopted to that on Friday t ext. His (Mr. Bankes's) answer would
tbhee,
ors Commause. No local Members were permitted to sit that during the deliberation of the Committee.
railway
yyunless they were resent on the first day
;ittsvtelesny assembled. There was Pa maiiife t distinction ;;;.:•iiwestr.arnte,e,
ptualtgahnt
end
dit
to
ottiit caotii,tmincuee,
'anifl strut he hereewlans,tthheaairt
and other local Bills. There might be whatever might be the result of their d liberation, that
, should have po•f,ctla itneartial Corn law, as it new :toed, eueht. net to remain another
feet l+ but railways, where so perfectly
-inteiests were af-
uut h
Bills ' t ere were man y upon the statute-book. He, thereforr,whcioenheuthrreeNd
nehnle
the constituents i•• in other tirely in the propriety of t e motion o
full
rhe
parettsendanee should- not be w deprived of Lord had given notice, witITI
hreefaermeennedemtetn)
amendment
awhien
of their representatives. consideration of that law.
~,ssnitY forendte,stYstern worked well, and he saw no ne- he should submit was—' That it is a ecessary to
se tue niotio urbing it, He should, therefore, object inquire into the operation of the Act. 9 ant! 10,Victoria,
1 the Ron Member for ItSeen,!:riiie.s.
for SalfordM2 was sur r: ha ~ 66, passed during the hat session o. Parliament,
es
Ito its effects upon the comforts and condition
teCornMsfotrir.tuilthtsti•eonsnoPte°,ak
~Wenrtne local. in thl) laed to hear tH , Member
inecetbheersc, he had done i f the lit e,ent of
onnnittees It would be ruucti set the poor." Stich an enqeiry must : neces-
-- -win Members themselves who sarily tend to show the necessuy of altering the
stature materially, or of removing it altogether.
if they were appointedthese - ' dthe subject alluded to by the Hen.
not to o
N, ith rezar to oche:
4114 even • ; there were always twoparties concerned, Member, there was 11,, debt that some time would be
he Was fif an Hon. Member-w
re inclinedp to •• trim," . lie
81,, o ten puzzled to know e (1 bter ) Lured tiefore the full infer-in:llion could be obtained.
%)
reittees feelings
nf. t-rway
"oulti, the!, ~ how to act.— saug
Friend, (store, support the motion of his Hun. ' • ion which he required.
re cued'
would, t.owever, support
.the motion of the Hon.
Gentleman for that iwortna.
Mr, RED ri n
11, trusted that -
34PPort to --AD YORKE would give his cordialthe results
informatien of the House on this subject by a-
country NI, meets would contribute to the
the right the measure, as he considered it a reform in of their own personal experience, and render unnece
the h direction, and calculated to leave unstained
uouse.nour and the late tic of the Members of that sary any Committee on this subject.—(l-lear, hear.)
R et SIBTRORP thou Sir GEORGE GREY had no objection to the pro-
Cole, , diction of the papers moved for by the lion. Member,
that thought that every Member ef but as the Hen. Genteetnatt epposite had stated it to be
made t ouse should be brought up to the table, and
dire"' o swear that they haul no interest, directly or in- his intentien to bring this m eter before the House by a
specific teot.on, he :rusted that the House would nut
thou in any railway, fur mail that were done, he countenance the discussion further at the present time.
be " !, that the honour ef the House could not POOR-LAW AUDITORS.
to prre•sierved, and the same system with reference Mr FERRA S D would trespass, on the H ,use while
tien, ai ways, _ e
or gross gatubl.ng, fraud, ands pecula-
lee wished
continue to disgrace that Heuse, duct of the peer-law auditors. It woul Ibe difficult o)
he called the attention of lion. Gentlemen to the con-
tore"nisied to have a pure House of Commons and a describe what in justice was inflicted on the poor
se',,Z nistry, and he had waited long fur such and by these functionaries. He would be able to convince
Zrken",tehtnd none. He wished to have in the House inde- the House that it was their duty to rescue the poor from
eu Members, who would work for the good of the clutches of these poor-law auditors. lie would men-
tons Until and not to forward their private
ton_ Until they had such a House of Cssen T
tion one ieatance ef the harsh conduct of these officers.
It was the custom in the town where he
all ' no good could be done. He had lost
c„-e -• resided to direct the parish constable to relieve the poor,
8„,, oniuence in the late Ministry, and he had great and he was in the habit of providing the destitute with
"Vielon of the geatlernen who constituted the present
one'
II a lodging, food for a short period, and a small sum to
e would support the Hon. Gentleman opposite assist them on their road. But what was the case at
(Mr. Ewart), in order, if possible, to purify the
presentsYsteen, presant. Why, the poor-law auditers had intimated to the
constable that he should discontinue the practice.
Mr. S. O'BRIEN believed that the present system had The auditors of several unions had threatened to corn-
wen greater satisfastion than the old one, and ought mence actions against the guardians if they gave relief
to
have a further trial. It had been said that the public to any person is opposition to the orders of Somerset.
Out of doors wished to place all Committees on private house. lie heped the House wool , take immediate
Nils on the same footing as Committees on railway steps and inquire iutu the charges which he had brought
Bills. lie oitfered trotn that opinion, as he felt satisfied forward.
the present system was in much more favour than the Mr. B. ESCOTT was convinced that half of the mise-
one which it had succeeded. He would therefore vote ries resulting from the administration of the present poor-
- against the metion- law arose from the ignorance or laziness of those ap-
Mr. WILLIAMS supported the motion. The tin- pointed to administer It. There was no law prohibiting
eni_ptleeha,d been already introduced into a great portion out-door relief; there was only an order of the Poor-law
property. lie lie agreed with the Hon. Member
atmohuntb(u,;inens of the House,
which inve,vee a large Commissioners, and even that was not absolutoei
for MontroPsree
intereitt 'was impossible fur any Member There were several exceptions to the operation
who had any
Committee appointsedintna private Bill to act upon the
On a former occasion he asked the Right iiond.unrarr.oirref
'.... _ opposed the mernoteito-
thing like impartiality or ind,pendeintse merits with any- that order, such as cases of sud.ien emergency,Bt
opposite who the power ~f regulat me outl, .
cases
Mr. NEWDEGA res. •
rdieeiparec ated
Mr. BERNAL supported the motion of emere tic) arising. 14
the practice of hearing counsel with lo'nagndb...e said he would
two ne returned
ley with the Commissieeers or board ettilyttltti,kieait sometime
to censider the point, and in a day or
of
private Committees. Some time since they were led to cases of
believe that all the preliminary steps inalone the • lofwhatshould be considered
before an answer to the effect, teat the board guardians were
Bills
private
were to be undertaken by the Public D, part
but,
With the exception of the Woods and Foresa'tseeths'
be-
lieved no other board had taken any step ~f this' kiend.
say to the poor men, who had lost their food throteeh
the f litre of the present year, that they
Sir G. GREY admitted that the principle of the could not be relieved out of the
Motion was good, but he should certatnly recommend ' w
manner.
The gutvoians haul no right at all to act in this
..
the House to exercise great caution in attempting e_ Feeling apprehensive that the distress now prevailing
Carr it out. The new machinery used in dealt, wit'hu would increase greatly before the next harvest, he was i
• ,rkhouse ?
rinleystty Bils had been found to work exceedingiyg well, desirous that the poor-law guardians should know the 1
i powers reposed in them, and exercise them in a proper
and he thOught it ought not to be abrupt' •
interf 3 ), manner.
Mr. SPOONER agreed with the Hon. Member for
erre. with. It was adopted after a long ant,
Manclie-ter, that thi• gui.rliatis sho.tld know them duty,
Patient inquiry had been introduced into the subject,
and the pe • ers c: 'le rred ,in them by the law. He knew
1,4,111_i instead of adding to the expenses incurred in the i
enunelte.ar,sveisraelthh,vve,egii ai
tI.I i a iiiseokridi
knew
rwe
of
fouatn-
ttress of railway Bills, it had ter ded to reduce them.—
hdo“ovvr"rell'et.ll4tht
‘ 1 ar, hear.) He was not, thee . fore, prepared at pre- I
lent to
f,._ . make any alteration in a system which bad been . urgent ease in Worc
seined to werk se admirably. e‘iter.hire, wherein the auditors
Dr• B ..., refused to s Inetion the rdief ; the item of relief was
fro • ()WRING suggested that, after what had fallen
, struck out, end the tem inns charged wi:h it.
tLa.,l Members on both sit'es of the House, and seeing Mr P. BOlt I'lls% ICK agreed with beuh his Hon.
On the
ththe principle of the motion was admitted , the debate .
1 Friends who had just spoken. The one stated the law
u 4 e. subject bail better toe adjourned.—(N.., ne.)
r.EwAse - . e o: the case ts rrectly, and the ether the facts which had
Mid he would o r (who arose amid loud cries `• Divide ) j TeAl!tel from its administration. For his h
but he be quite willing to withdraw his 'notion, own part, e
`believed the law was bad, because it vested unconstitu-
sUbje would give notice of a Select Committee upon the I tional power in the hands of Commissioners ; and the
BireGfor to-morrow.—(Cries of " Divide, divide.") • facts which had just been stated showed that the admi-
'would • GREY said that, in his opinion, a division nistration of the law was as bad as the law itself.
Mr. E only be a waste of time, as it would be open to 'Fhe tnetion ions then aereed to.
move v'torrtt'he
even should his motion be negative-I, .° ADMISSI, )Isl OF SUGAR usrro DISTILLERIES.
(Cries of ,' ~ elect lommittee upon the next eight-- : Mr. t :II las I'l /MIER eis-ed t , ask zhe N ible lewd
Divide.")
The House the- n divided. when the' e at the ht-,id of he G vere m nt, whether it was his in-
Fur the motion appeared . teetios sat Friday 0. xt. t , k tie, , pinion of ti.e llotitie
. . . Against it 36 u on a p:•rsit est in asure wl, regard to the from 10- -
103 I went of sugar in breweries and distilleries ? Was tile
alajoritYminmwmoom - ....,..-67 ineigue to be perainent or only fora limitetd period ?

The Hon. C. VILLIERS presented a petition, signed by
ill the leading merchants, brewers, and distillers in the
city of London, calling the attention of the House to the
great dearth of food in Great Britain and Irelhml, and
In other parts of Europe, and praying the House to
rescind the penalties imposed on brewers using sugar
and molasses.

PRESENTMENTS OF SESSIONS (IRELAND).

Mr. F. FRENCH gave notice of his intention to le,ve
for a return of the extraordinary presentments made by
the sessions in each county in Ireland under the provi-
sions of the 9th and 10th Victoria, to,tether with the
expenses thus incurred, and the number of officers em-
PloYe4 in the works. _ _

• ISLE OF MAN
Dr. BOWRING deferred until Thursday, the 28th
lust., his motion with respect to the House of Keys.
KEIGHLEY UNION.
Mr. FERRAND gave notice that he should move to-
Morrow for a return of all the orders made by the
Poor-law Commissioners with respect to this union,
With their dates, since the 9th of June, 1842 ;
together with the number of inmates, the instructions
communications issued by the Commissioners to
thise guardians and to the relieving officer, and whether
the g had acted upon those orders, or whether he
had relieved the poor upon his own responsibility.
TREATMENT OF CONVICTS.
Mr. DUNCOMBE gave notice that he should move,
Oti the 28th instant, for the appointment of a Select
Committee to inquire into the tre.itmeut of convicts on
board the hulks at Woolwich.
112% BOWRING
MILITARY PUNISHMENT.
in
gave notice that to-morrow he should
Love
for a retunt of the number of corporeal punisil-
44_s in the army since the List Parliamentary returns,
F garnish ed uP to the latest period at which they could be
.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL replied, that on Friday night
it was the intention of Government to ask the House for
a resolution empowering the use of sugar in breweries
and distilleries ; and afterwards, if the House agreed to
the resolution, to propose a Fatal for carrying it into
effect, which it was not intended to limit to any parti-
cular period. It would be perfectly compz-t4:nt, however,
for the Hon. Member to propose a clause limiting the i.pe-
ration of the Bill. Perhaps it was worthy of consideration
whether it would not be advisable, in the first instance,
to limit the Bill for a given time, and afterwards to make
it permanent.—(Hear, hear.)
CAPTAIN WARNER'S LONG RANGE.
Sir C. NAPIER wished to ask the Noble Lord
whether any reprt had been made upon Captain
Warner's' long range, and if they had, whether the
Noble L ,rd had any objection to liy it upn the table
of the House.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL replied that there had been
a report made, tut before be could consent to icy it
upon the table of the 1.1, use, he must look over it again.
MILLBANK PENITENTIARY.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said it would be in the recoi-
1, ctioa of the House, that towards the close of the last
3,ssion of Parliament a Commisuon was appointed to
inquire into the state of Millbank prison. The Com-
mission was nominated in cons:-quence of a pc tition
which he presented on the subject He wished to know
whether Government had any objection to lay upon tt e
table of the House the report and evidence connected
with the inquiry.
Sir G. GnEY replied, that within the last fortnight he
had received a report, signed by two of the Commis-
sioners, together with the evidence connected with it,
and he should have no objection to accede to the request
of the Hon. Member for Finshury.

associated with a Committee for the relief of distress, but in
I that time they had never accepted Is. of the Government
money, becau-e they could not act up to the Government in-
structions. No one who had not attended these relief com-
mittees could understand the anxieties under vs hich these gen-
tlemen laboured, or the difficulties they had overcome, but
those who had filled similar situations in other places. and
under similar circumstances. Ile felt convinced that the best
mode of meeting these difficulties would have been to suspend
the poor-law for the time being; in fac, he was sure that this
was far better than the Labour Act, which had turned out
such a complete failure. It was very true that what
the Hon. Member for Stroud had asserted was correct, that
in some cases relief was refused. The fact was, that the price
of food was so enormous, that in some cases it was impossible
te supply it. Fur his own part, he thought. that many hard
taunts had been brought against those Members who were
connected with Ireland on the subject of the poor-law of that
country ; but Hon. Members should recollect that it was the
very Ministry which now existed that had introduced that very
poor-law. They were told of many measures for the good of
Ireland. Emigration was pointed out, public works were esta-
blished, and other measures had been stated as a panacea for all
these evils. There could be no doubt that some one must support
1 the destitute poor, but if no one could do so, the Government
1 of the country were bound to provide some funds for the pur-
pose He had, with great pleasure, heard the statement of
the Noble Lord, tirtrt he had anticipated the subject, and that
the state of Ireland would be shorter brought before the
House, and the means explained by which Government hoped
to avert the evil. The workhouses in Ireland were in an
awful state. Few of them could accommodate more inmates,
and in the workhouse of Skibbereen, of which mention had
been made once or twice that night; the deaths had exceeded
by 200, the amount of mortality in the corresponding period
of last year. —( Hear, hear.) Numbers of the inmates were
afflicted with fever, and even in the workhouse of which he was
chairman, the daughter of the master and the schoolmaster,
were also afflicted with fever. But it had been asserted that
the guardians of the workhouses neglected their duty. He had
lately received a communication from a friend of his, who
stated that two of the guardians of the workhouse in his locality
were lying
of their duties. In the western part of the county with which
ill with typhus fever, caught whilst in the discharge
he was connected, the state of the poor was most alarming; but
as he did not wish to say anything that might create
a difference of opinion in this debate, he was willing to give
every credit to the Government for their intentions with respect
to Ireland, but they committed a fatal error when they decided
upon doing away with depots in Ireland. The Hon. Member
for Stroud had stated that a large amount of corn yet re-
mained unthrashed in the farmers' possession. He (Lord
Bernard) wished that he could confirm that statement. No
doubt the farmers had some corn for their own consumption,
but as a proof that at the present moment it was by no means
plentiful ; he might inform the House that in the corn market
of Cork (the second market of the kingdom), the supply did
not exceed the general average of July. As they
would soon hive au opportunity of discussing this question,
when they had the information promised them by Government,
he would not further trespass upon the attention of the House,
hut before sitting down he might express a hope that some
change might be made in the unfortunate Labour Act, under
which a vast sum of money had been expended for no possible
use, and that some measures would be adopted instead, which
would have the effect of inducing the peasantry to attend to
the cultivation of the land, and they might then expect that
another year would exhibit Ireland more prosperous than the
Yu. n d a t lila c e knew
ewhere
that n o
their effort
present, and her sons more contented and happy.
Sir GEORGE GREY admitted the fearful extent
of famine under which the people of Ireland were then suffer-
was
suffer-
ing, but which he hoped, that tt.e presence of Parliament would
omfit
humanigat e i n
prudencesom e
could
act rce aa It ae mai
bt
felt scarcity. He admitted it was the duty of Irelend to avail
itself of all and every means within its reach, by which it
could arrest the progress of disease and death, and Govern-
ment, as had been already stated by his Right Hon. Friend the
Chancellor of the Exchequer had given instructions that soup
kitchens should be established where distress was most preva-
lent ; the object being to bring food within the
reach of that class who were incapacitated from
labour. He would inform the Hon. Member for Stroud,
that the papers relative to the distress in Irelund would shortly
be laid upon the table of the House, and he would then per-
ceive the reasons which had inducedl her Majesty's Govern-
ment to advance money to the poor-law unions in Ireland.
He was sorry to say that there was a general disposition on the
part of the board of guardians to shrink from the most onerous
duty imposed upon them, via.—that of collecting the out-
standing debts ; and when they found that pasties who were
well able to do so p. offered the plea of inability as a reason for
avoiding payment of the rates demanded for the sup-
port of the poor, he was sure that Honourable Members
would not blame the Government for having exercised due
caution before advancing money for this purpose to the unions.
He would instance the Castlebar workhouse, because it had nut
been supported out of the public funds, where the people were
turned away from the doors without relief, and numerous
Inquests were held ,n those who had died from starvation.
Yet that workhouse could accommodate 600 persons, and the
Board of Guardians had so neglected their duties, that not
more than 130 were admitted into the house. No answer was
returned by them to the repeated remonstrances of the Poor-
law Commissioners, and as they had refused te make due
provision for the support of the poor in their neighbourhood
it was determined to dismiss them altogether, and supply their
place with a paid board. Before sitting down he would merely
advert to the state of distress in the West Highlands of Scot-
land. He had been more immediately in correspondence with
many proprietors in the West Highlands, the Lord Advocate of
Scotland, and Sir John M'Neil, and it was due to the House
that it should know that the distress in the:West Highlands was
of the most severe kind ; bat the sacrifices which the landlords
had made were of a nature to entitle them to the very highest
praise. They had almost in every case rendered their estates
chargeable in a large sum of money for works which they
bad created, and only in one instance had he heard an
exception to this general conduct. Upon this estate two deaths
occurred, but he was happy to say that that proprietor now was
imitating the example of others. He had every confidence
that Scotland would struggle successfully through its present
difficulties. It was natural that the state of Ireland should
occupy more attention, but he could not resume his seat
without referring to the West Highlands, and the destitution
prevailing there.
Mr. CALLAGHAN thought that some means should be
adopted to compel the depots on the coast from Donegal to
Cork to open their stores of food for the supply of the people.
But so great was the distress of that country, that the work-
houses were utterly unable to contain the numbers which it was
necessary to thrust into them, and it was well knt.wn that the
cottagers had been keeping back the money that should have
paid
their rates, and had been reserving it for their private use
to buy food for the winter. He did not blame them, though
he was a landlord himself, especially when he saw the state of
distress in which the couutry was plunged, for it could not be
expected that the money which was required for food should be
expended in the improvement of their farms.—( Hear, hear.)
During the latter part of the year, the number of paupers
whereas the
contained in the workhouse at Cork was 2,900,
number for which it was adapted was only '2,000, and ,at the
present moment there were ab iolutely as
many as 5,000 in-
mates accommodated in the house He would not trouble the
conclude with
House with any further remarks, but would.
of en the
im-
pressing upon the Government the necessitoy. .
&rig
`blip im-
people to obtain food without the hardship f b
mured where their health and the country alike suffered.
not be doing jus-
Mr. HAMILTON thought that he should .
f he did not thank
to the Ministry, or his duty to the country, i
ities of Ireland,
them for their readiness to meet the necess .
kitchens. He
and e-pecially for the establishment of
soup-
could ied at an
could have wished that this measure had been a p .
f from
Id not rt. rain
ear-
lier period, but late as it came, he wou
he felt that to all
expressing his gratitude for the boon, for
se benefit, and
classes in the country it would prove an immen
iven
would have been glad if some notification of
it had beeu soma
in that some
in the Queen's Speech. He regretted, however,
so that the
measure of out-door relief had not been
devised
of their cha-
racter of the poor might have been
divested
trusted that the
racter as providers for the people, and he
House of Commons would relieve them from the responsibility
clothed the
with which they were invested. The
law
had
as hoped that the
Commissioners with supreme power, and it w
House of Commons would relieve them from their responsi-
bility. He could not, however, sit down, without expressing
;
his gratitude to the Ministry for the exertionswhich they hail
made for the relief of the people of Ireland.
hat feeling deeply
Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD said t 'he thought it
at heart the interes. of the people of Ireland,
Lions on the subect
but right that he should make some obsery
&uch attention toy the
mbefore the House. He had listened with ,
the Secretary for
declaration of the Right Hon. Gentlema
ne
some facts, which
Ireland (Mr. Labonchere.) But there r,
ierati en of
be hoped hoped would be brought under the coil l
tdhan the state ofovern the
ment, and nothing was more prominent
that, the restrictions
destitute your, and in connexion with
ts to relieve the out-
which had been placed on the disburse _
d for this purpose.
door distress. Net a farthing was granto
i was formed for the
In the workhouse of Skibbereen, the p at.
the preset moment,
reception of 800 inmates ; and yet, a___ had demanded her
there was not less than 1,169. The t"
notice to quit. Ihe phy-
dismissal. The apothecary had given no In the workhouse of
sician was unable to attend te his duty.to
two beds, and three
Mewtehads seven children were put inof
beds • and in one case
adults were put into the same number e _ ,Lis. In Down-
nineteen adults were put into seventede:' e's-
when the power of
Patrick the same principle was observe
could not deny the ad-
denied. H
•
giving outdoor relief was altbough he much
G erernentt
vantages of the measure of ofv
the labour-rate had been just,
questioned whether the abuse o
ate was discussed it was at
for he recollected that when that rate the Irish Members could
the end of the session, inefficient as
and
rected to that rate,
be got together. If they
the° ought to have been in their
he allowed it had beeno,b.ectiy....
when the Government
places to state their
j and advice. Yet the principal
seiicited their
assistance
would complain was the mistake which had
thing of which be w
s allowed to the labourers for their ex-
been mad- in the wages
h. wablic works. These men were only paid
ertions on tee
nine
end because this was only the
Mice a day,
eightpence or
labourersninepenc
in general were paid, there were but
price at which
relief. The Itlinisters of the Crown had not
few who sought the of ybutio for if they
relied upon the assistance
contributions they would be moat
depended ape'? V Thioluntary
miserably deceived. s fact would show, that where the
the greatest the contributions would be the
necessity was d
that the Government would take warning
least. He trusted that
and that, while they adopted
by their
they would improve upon the practice.
the principle, , Y
%he returns, that during the year
It appeared, hti 800,000 quarters of barley
1844, as man
as ' any as 92i'20 tons of
oat and other
from Ireland, and as many
while food was
. Why was it that exported from Ireland
meal. : e 'll4 was
were starving . _ a subject well worth
the people
looking to. Then there was another consideration as to
the
must be provided for these Seed
future crops.
the produce of the present year it would
amount were to be taken from of those
the supplies which were
only be reducing _
.stence.Such
needed for present sub.lwas the important sub-
ject which should engross
the attention 0
i '
impressof Ministers ; but he
desired particularly to upon the Government the ne•
the supply of food from
cessity of preventing
nt
season. being drawn from
the crop of the prese
__
EN
FRENCH
Mr. FITZSTEPH , rose to address a few
words to the House,
sole' 7 on account of whet had fallen from
the RIM Hen. Baronet theSecretary of State for the Home
to
Department, in reference an occurrence that had taken
place in the
• workhouse of Castlebar. Now, if he had been
rightly informed, the guardians of Castlebar had found that it
ble to collect the rat •
was totally impose es in that district, and
took u
some of them, therefore,. Pon themselves the respon-
sibility of feeding the inmates of the house, and by these
means the paupers were supported for more than two
months.—( cries of ".Hear, hear.") He readily believed
this information, because a similar circumstance occurred
in his own county. There, he knew of his
own persoasi_
knowledge, that the paupers had latterly been supported at the
pot collect rivate expense of th
the rates, ne gow that thei uardians, and
yet b • ecause they could
nr Own
failed them, they were to be handed over to
the tender mercies private resources
of the Poor-law Commissioners. In the case of the Castlebar
guardians the commissioners had alread c
but he was strongly inclined to doubt itsy
legality,
to a decision,
the guardians had never refused to act. There in so far as
Honourable Members in the House who were many
could bear him
out in the statement that, in the county with which he was
connected they wet e lighting their candles at both ends—their
rents were given up, and still they were unable
to
l ghrtelieve every
case of distress and suffering that
cameto
( Hear.)
In conclusion, he could only assure the House, that— if they
would take the trouble to inquire into the matter, it would be
found that is the western and southern districts of Ireland the
We) could not by any ponibility be collected,' aid in mini

THE ADDRESS.
Mr. HOWARD brought up the report on the Address.
On the question that it he read,
Mr. HUME rose and said he wished to make a few
observations upon the subject or the Address, and whiet
he had not an opportunity of delivering lust night.
He tied been always opposed to the system of publie
works, ni.d he had proposed that a large sum of money
ought to have been expended in the cultivation of the
land, for which it should have been responsible. He wished
to e:111 attention to the state of the labouring classes
in England. Every labouring man was suffering from
the calamity, and the patience with which the poor were
sutfering in Scotland was beyond expression. He
hoped the present calamitous condition of Ireland
would riot carry them away from affording assistance to
another portion of the country similarly afflicted.
The recital of the sufferings of the people of Ire-
land was perfectly harrowing, and showed that the
condition of the country was worse than any
other in Europe. The omission of the sub-
ject of national education from the Queen's Speech
had caused the utmost surprise in the country.
because the introduction of a system of education
e
bepthtni
eorea
stieasatsortrsore,ttetushhto eyaps:
from
from
drteocihmotfuswehuun
aehn.fft
her
oNrrrgeyrti
eiohan:ralbeghelhdasejrcneaca.
degraded
condition
rl
oiynyadt
with
Majesty's
eai
dotfh:
physical,or
croapmoi
tvopfeifsati objectabntnhutadetn ddhr
measureeat
de hdt, egt
received
ntuitojeme7theeaspiadc
vdrcheo.
hdvouteend introducehmtl
eyhst emhi
eubnonet
at-
tentionu
been
uona of
which it demanded. He rylmdhe,ti was satisfied, however, of
better system of , ducation order to
tehlepyvatweouthide
find, if
this country were visited with a similar calamity that they
would become lawless. Then he did not believe that
the Noble Lord and his colleagues intended to stop short
in the free trade measures proposed and partially carried out
by the late Government, as every step taken to reduce the ne-
ceasaries of the people had led to increased employment, and
to increase the wealth of the country. They should not stop
midway, but continue to make those reforms to which he had
referred. He would only mention this because he believed
that an alteration of the tenures of land in Scotland and Ireland
would be productive of the greatest benefits. He believed
that there was many a man who was placed in the possession
of landed property, utterly unable either to work it or sell it.
He had hoped that although this subject was not mentioned in
the Queen'. Speech, that it would be more fully considered by
the Government, and that some measure would have been
proposed which would have produced some convenience in this
respect. He heard el the Noble Ilarquis, who had made a
confession that he was in possession of large estates, and yet
his poverty was so great that he was utterly unable to employ
the labouring poor in his neighbourhoed ; that was a manly
confession, and he trusted that it would lead to a consideration
of the question of entail. For he believed if they simplified
the conveyance of property they would set at liberty the whole
wealth of the country. A man in the possession of property,
from his inability to work out the estate, was very often unable
either to use it or dispose of it. On the other hand it was ob-
served, how many n.onied men came into the possession of an es.
tate, andt he whole n, ighbourhood became immediately busy, and
the poor around it were employed. He had just had the pleasure
of talking with a gentleman, a land agent, who had informed
him that if the conveyance of landed property in Ireland
was to be made as free as the transfer of personal effects
he would assert that within ten years the whole of the
present distress in that country would be entirely obviated.
With respect to the destruction of the independence of Cra-
cow, he did think that it was one of the most outrageous viola-
tions of the faith of nations, but last night he had no oppor-
tunity of making any remark on the subject. The speech of
the Noble Lord quite unnerved him, and prevented him from
troubling the House. He was glad when he heard him state
so manfully and clearly his opinion. Last year, when he (Mr.
Hume) brought forward his doubts of the honesty and sincerity
of Austria, Russia, and Prussia, the Noble Lord pledged him-
self, from correspondence which he then had in his possession,
that the occupation was only to be temporary. A Noble Duke
in another place also rung the same changes. He wondereii
what the Noble Duke thought now. They had been told that
the treaty would be equally binding ; and that having been
proved not to be the case, her Majesty's Government would not
do justice to the feelings of the people of England,
if they did not designate that act of actrocity in
the strongest language possible. I have heard no man attempt
to justify this act, except one or two Members in this House
last night, and then he was mach ashamed of them.—
(Laughter.) One of those gentlemen, whom he was sorry to
say, he did not see in his place, attempted to prove that no
violation of the treaty had taken place. In the course of his
arguments, he went to Westphalia and other places, in fact be
did not know where the devil he did not go to. He got round
the world, but he did not arrive at Cracow.—( Loud Laughter. )
He (Mr. Hume) did not see how his arguments were applicable
to that place at all. Seriously, he did think that it was the
grossest violation of honour and faith, when the security
of Cracow was invaded. The English people had made every
sacrifice to obtain that treaty. They gave up Java and other
important places, and kept nothing but trash for themselves.
she Emperor Paul had borrowed four millions of money from
the Dutch for the purpose of making war upon the English,
and they were such fools as to take two millions of that upon
themselves, and to pay the interest as long as the alliance was
maintained, and the treaty kept inviolate. Were they so lush
of money as to continue to pay that after that gross violation?
He (Mr. Hume) at any rate should move that the payment
be no longer continued. What was the object of making
treaties if they were to be broken at will, or
if they had not. the courage to enforce them?
It was, perhaps, of no great importance, that a small body of
men at Uracovv should have lost their independence; but it
was for the principle which was here infringed that he con-
tended. What security was there now for the peace of
Europe ; but violence of treaties were now nothing. They
were all aware of the position of England from those treaties.
He would not blame the Noble Lord who presided over the
Foreign Department, nor would be question his ability to
meet any emergencies that might occur ; but it
was an awkward thing for him and his colleagues
in the present situation. It was too bad for the
fceorttent,terey
tfuretimh
esyee at rretaot
iyeesa, ra
st oinbethiens;rletseedutb
instance,Ministers
w when
nt hthey
were treated by those powers as if they were some petty state,
instead of being that state which had secured some of those
powers the most valuable privileges they possessed. fbey
were paying 100,004. per annum trust money to Austria. He
hoped, when he brought the question before the House that
they would express themselves upon the subject. He hoped
the Noble Lord would carry on' what he bad said, and an
opportunity would be afforded him of disapproving what had
been awed on the other side of the House.
Colonel SIBIHORP was of opinion that the Chancellor of
the Exchequer should have given some indication of the finan-
cial state of the country, and he considered that the state of
Ireland was induced by the policy of the late Government and
the present Government when they had preceded them in office.
He had expected different results from the operation of the
Bill referred to than had taken place. If Mr. Pitt was to arise
now, what would he think of such a Ministry as the present ?
He would be ashamed of it. He: (Colonel Sibthorp) was
persuaded they had acted a most cowardly part in the affair of
Cracow.
Mr. P. SCROPE wished to offer a few words in explana-
tion of a point he had maintained last night, in which he had
In en contradicted by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite
( Mr. Labouchere). He (Mr. Scrope) had stated that the
Relief Committees had refuted to give relief in food to the
poor, except in the shape of wages under the Board of Works.
Now he had in his possession documents which showed that
he was right. 'de had a copy of the instructions issued from
Dublin by the Hoard of Works, on the Ist of October last,
which confirmed this view. It instructed that no relief
should be given to the poor except in payment of labour, or
the purchase of provisions for sale at the cost price. (The
Hon Gen.leman here read an extract from the document re-
ferred to, in proof of the statement he had made). It might
be said, in reply, that the instrucuons -had been altered in this
report. He had, however, watched the proceedings of the
Board of Works carefully, and had not seen any such alte-
ration. By resolutions agreed to by the re-productive
Committee sitting in Dublin, on the 23d of December, it
would appear there was no change, for one of the resolutions
called on the Board of Works to alter the instructions on the
head of relief, which they had issued. The next resolution of
the same committee also complained that the Board of Work.
had not made advances as loans, to be repaid by future rates.
This was required in order to find additional workhouse accom-
modation. He thought this should have been done, as the
greatest hardships had resulted from the pour not being able to
find shelter in the workhouses. This was a grave question.
and the House should not pass it over without tub discussion.
The Government, he was persuaded, had not acted with suffi-
cient energy, else the people of Ireland would not be in their
present condition. He thought that even in Ireland there was a
very large amount of food, only the farmers were keeping it
back to realise higher prices. He had received a letter from
the West rat Ireland, which stated this to be the tact in regard
to the supply of food. It further stated, that the only way to
meet the evils of Ireland was to put on the screw, in order to
make the landowners of that country support the poor.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose and
said, that no doubt, in the first instance, the atrangement of
taliVnorkinsfuwratusartiterufdeftivtehceeex,teinuatsmaufchthaes they
thebbeufi
lo
before
er
in establishing soup kitchens throughout the
merit lost no time
the country, ,o that the aged and infirm
soon as such information was received, her Maje-ty's Govern-
distressed parts of
The Government would be enabled to give in detail the
themrdcertain
; but the Honourable Member was aware that as
amounts expended bbyutthem in endeavouring to mitigate the
,
unfortunately, he had not the papers
who could no' possibly labour might be supplied with food.
pre tailing distress;
with him now, as he did
the question
opened up
for Stroud, would have
day was fixed by the
n early
that night, not anticipate that the Hon. Member,
beore the House. When that
ing the whole question before
be enabled to show to the
day arrived, he would
Noble Lord
had not neglected any
House that her Majesty's Government
t distre:s in
alleviate the presen
especiallyat th e h.,asd aof the Government for bring-
means in their power to
Ireland.
Lord BERNARD had tried in the course of that same night
but had been unsucc . eqicul. He
to catch the Speaker s eye, be was
would but address a few worths
to the House, although
o
eno,t anxious to express his opinion up
on a subject t
to the q.: estimch
on whiim
c-
h
portance to his country. With referen e
the Chancellor of the Exchequer had just answered, the House
'
wined find that it was only .
hin the
the
or night
establish-
that instructions had been issued tor
.s
ion
lug of soup kitchens. He (Lord Berpira) bid

instances the poor were solely dependent upon the privates
resources of the guardians and the resident gentry. —( Hear.)
Mr. LEFROY felt constrained to bear his testimony to
the wretched state of the people of Ireland, and to
state that within the last few months he had had ample
opportunities of witnessing the anxiety of the landowners to
mitigate the distress with the aid of their own private funds.—
(Hear, hear.) He must say, in justice to tb. Government,
that he had heard their statements in reference to Ireland with
the utmost satisfaction. Credit was due to them for the can-
dour with which they admitted the prevalence of the distress-s-
-and the fairness with which they allowed that whatever
works had been recently adopted in Ireland were fully autho-
rised by the exigences of the times. (Hear, hear.)
The Lord Lieutenant and the Secretary for Ireland,
had exerted themselves to the utmost to mitigate the
evils, and had entered cordially ire() all the schemes that bad
been submitted to them for the purpose. All those who had
the power of co-operating with Government in the present
state of Irish affairs, ought readily to come forward and do so.
He could bear testimony, with the Hon. Gentleman who last
addressed the House, to the difficulty of collecting the rates in
Roscommon, and ha had not the least hesitation in believing
that the same difficulty had been experiencod, and the reme-
dies resorted to in Castlebar. The Hon. Member for Bath,
on the previous night, suggested measures for meeting the
present exigencies, which would have the effect of ex-
tinguishing the landholders of Ireland.—( Hear, hear. )
But would their extinction improve the condition of the
Irish people. In many instances the landlords had given up
their rents, and others of them had abandoned many of their
comforts, and reduced their establishments for the purpose of
investing large sums of money in the purchases of Indian corn,
for the benefit of the poor. He did not pretend to say that
those who thus invested their money, expected it would be a
loss, on the contrary he was convinced they would be enabled
to remunerate themselves by selling the corn to the
distressed poor.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") The corn
dealers throughout Ireland, however, had been filling
their pockets at the t xpense of the people, and steps he had
mentioned, as being taken by the landlords, were the only
means by which unjust and cruel speculations in food could be
put a stop to.—( Hear, hear.) He did hope, therefore, that no
more would be heard about extinguishing the landlords, but
that such measures would be adopted for advancing money to
the landlords at reasonable rates of interest, tojse invested, in
reproductive works, such as the improvement of the land, and
thus enable them not only to meet all the liabilities the mea-
sures would impose upon them, but to derive some profit from
the money so borrowed.—( Hear, hear. )
Mr. P. BORTHWICK promised to give the measures of
the Government his careful consideration, and after giving
them such partial consideration to decide upon them without
reference to party lei ling or party bias. He did not agree
with the reasoning that had been advanced in sup:,ort of the
violation of the Treaty of Vienna in the suppression of
Cracow, nor did he think those were the best friends of the
Government of France er of England who were silent upon the
subject of the Montpensier marriage, on the ground that the
entente cordiale which existed between the Govern-
ments of the two countries was indispensably neces-
sary for the preservation of the peace of Europe.
It was indispensably necessary that it should be shown to the
people and Government of France, that in this country there
was a reunion of all sections and parties in the sentiments ex-
pressed in reference to the Montpensier marriage. it was very
desirable, no doubt, that there should be an entente cordiale
between the two countries, but it should not be merely between
other parties and factions of those two great powers, but be-
tween the people.
Mr. PLUMPTRE expressed his hope that peace would not
be interrupted.
Mr. EWART was aware that the present subject required
the nicest management, but he could not help saying that he
hoped her Majesty's Government would introduce some mea-
sure for the extension of education in this country. He must
exprsis his satisfaction at this part of her Majesty's Speech
which expressed a desire to preserve unbroken the peace of
the world. He was sure that the feeling of the people of this
• ountry was in favour of peace as long as their natural rights
were not interfered with.—( Hear.) Peace was suited to their
commercial character, and to the limited monarchy under
which they lived.
Lord G. BENTINCK begged to offer a few observations
upon whst had fallen from an Hon. Gentleman in reference to
a Noble Friend of his, Lord Lucan. He had the authority of
that nobleman for stating that, during six years, he has con-
stantly resided in Castlebar. and expended, not only the whole
of his Irish rents, but a large portion of those derived from his
English estates also, in that part of the country. In justice
to the people of Mayo, he must state that they refused only to
pay rates on the ground of the extravagant assessment that had
been made on them, it being no less than 400,0001. It was
levied at meetings where there were numbers of persons with
shillelaghs in their hands.—(Laughter.) When the rates were
not levied, Lord Lucan himself paid the poor-rates of the
parish.—(Hear, hear. )
Mr. Pt ULETT SCROPE said that he had derived his
authority from the daily papers. Perhaps the Noble Lord
would inform him, as he was on the subject, as to what had
been alleged of the landlords sending over paupers in such num-
bers to Liverpool.
Lord G. BENTINCK was informed that it was not the
landlords of Ireland who exported the paupers in this wholesale
manner. The steamers coming over here every year short of
hands, induced the proprietors to bring over paupers to Liver-
pool, in order to compel the parish to send them back.
The Address was then read and adopted.
CORN LAWS.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL gave notice of a motion for to-
morrow, that the House do resolve itself into a committee to
consider the corn laws. _ _

but, of course, in all these matters, the parties promoting the
into
the ought to pay the expense of the commissioner going
the country, and it would require a vast number of commis.
sioners in different parts of the country to investigate these
matters, and considerable expense must be incurred; and there
would be also the objection which I have stated in my examina-
tion before, that there might be a want of uniformity if we
had a vast variety of commissioners in different parts of the
country; and that want of uniformity would be a very great
evil.

Is it not the fact, that the expense and the inconvenience of
opposing a Bill in this House acts as a prohibition upon opposi-
tion, except in cases where parties feel themselves grievously
and individually interested?--Certainly.
The whole community may be injuriously affected to a con-
siderable extent, and yet it may not, under the present sys-
tem, be worth the while of any one person in that community
to go to the expense and incur the inconvenience of opposing
the Bill ?—Certainly.

(J. St. George Burke, Esq. )
In the cases of waterworks, or gas, or paving, or Bills of
that kind, do you consider that the compliance with standing
orders might be proved with less expense on the spot where
the works are to be ?—Yes, it would be a saving, as far as re-
gards the bringing up witnesses to prove it. It would not be a
very large difference, because you must appoint some official
person to go to take the evidence, and he would have fees, I
suppose, for going and expenses, and I do not know that there
would be a great change. The great expense we have been
put to in this session and the last, has arisen more from the
enormous glut of biviness which has prevented our Bills being
taken in due time, and because we have had to wait for days
in the lobbies, with hundreds of witnesses. Now an immense
saving might be effected if one Hon. Member would take the
duties of five; that instead of having five Members to investi-
gate whether plans have been rightly lodged, it should be re-
ferred to one single Member, who would be just as competent
as a committee of five.

Then if a plan were adopted by which one person here could
take the proof!, or if it could be done on the spot by a pro.
perly authorised person, that would save a great deal of those
great expenses for witnesses which are now necessarily in-
curred ?—lf one Member were to form a committee for the
performance of this duty, it would save expense ; except that I
do not expect, nor does anybody ever expect, to have a repeti-
tion of what we have had this year and last. . _

When you speak of the comparative paucity of gas and
waterworks Bills, do not you think that the great expense of
obtaining Bilis acts as a prohibition in many towns with regard
to their availing themselves of gas-lights and supplies'of water,
which they might otherwise find it well worth their while to
establish ?—I do not think the expense is dependent at all
upon the length of the Bill ; that is a minimum proportion of
the expense.
What is the principal expense ?—ln a Gas Bill the expenses
are not heavy if it is unopposed ; if it is opposed there are
various expenses arising from the fees to counsel, and so forth,
which run up a bill to a large amount ; the expenses of evi-
dence, the shorthand writer, the committee fees, the House
fees, are all increased by an inquiry before a Committee ; but
an unopposed Gas Bill is not a heavy Bill, and would be very
little lessened in expenses by having the clauses consolidated ;
the cost of printing would be somewhat diminished.
Speaking of the expense, can you form any estimate what
proportion of the expense of such Bills is for witnesses, and
what for fees of the House, and what for other expenses ?—I
cannot state the exact proportion, nor am I a competent party
to do that, for I never see the solicitors' bills ; but I should
say that in a contested case, the fees of the House and those
which more properly come within my own department, via.,
the preparation of the Bill, the clauses, and so forth, form a
very small proportion indeed of the large expense which is in-
curred.

Do witnesses form a large expense ?—The attemiance of
witnesses will be a large sum ; the employment of counsel is a
very large sum ; the daily copies of evidence, and the drawing
up and preparing it, involve a very large experditure.
Have you any means of knowing what is the ordinary fee
of attorneys attending in London for the sake of Private Bills?
—I would rather they would answer that question themselves ;
they know it better than we do; it does not come within my
province.
There is a regulated fee for the attendance of Parliamentary
agents ?—lt will vary in cases of opposed or unopposed Bills ;
but we do not profess to charge always for attending Com-
mittees, unl.ss there are clauses under discussion. I should
find it impracticable to attend all the Committees I have,
during the investigation of the preambles; and therefore we
generally consider that to come under the solicitor's province
while the evidence is being taken, and then upon the clauses
we attend ourselves, and we vary our charge. Sometimes we
get two guineas. If I were there the whole day long fighting
clauses, I should charge five.

The House then adjourned at Nine o'clock, till to-morrow
.this day. )

PARLIAMENTARY BUSINESS.

The object of the q-uestiou is to see whether it is not im-
possible to form any estimate of what the expenses of a Bill
may be without knowing what the opposition may be, and
what the duration of it may be ?—Quite impossible.
(W. Blamire, Esq.)
How are the expenses of carrying Inclosure Acts into execu-
tion provided for ?—The expenses of carrying the Inclosure
Act into execution are paid by the parties availing themselves
of the Act, assuming that the lands are inclosed; the Com-
missioners have no power to levy expenses until an inclosure
has been effected, and therefore if the Commissioners send
down an Assistant-Commissioner to icrestigate a case which
eventually ends without inclosure, his expenses would fall upon
the consolidated fend.

From the Votes and Proceedings of the House of Commons.)

TUESDAY, JAN. 19.

Navy—Copy ordered, " of the Treasury minute respecting
naval promotion to one vacancy in three, the number of
officers on the list at the date of the minute, and the number
on the 30th day of September, 1846"—Sir C. Napier.
Steam Vessels (Navy)—Return ordered," of screw steam-
vessels laid down and launched since the Ist day of January,
1840; also, of iron seam-ves,,els laid down and launched
from the same time, distinguishing those with screw, their
tonnage, horse-power, and armament"—Sir C. Napier.
Shipping, Exports, &c.—Return ordered, " showing, for
each year, from 1816 to 1845, inclusive, the number of vessels
and of tonnage entered inwards and cleared outwards at each
of the twelve principal ports of the United Kingdom respec-
tively; also, the official and declared values of the exports,
and official value of the imports, for each of the said ports,
during the same years respectively—Mr. Cardwell.
Corn—Account ordered, " of the total amount of duty re-
ceived upon foreign wheat imported between the sth day of
July, 1846, and the 19th day of January, 1847; together
with the weekly average price of wheat, according to the
Gazette, in each week of the same period ; and the quantities
imported and the quantities entered for consumption in each
week"—Mr. Cardwell.
NOTICES OF MOTIONS.
Lord John Russell—Committee of the whole House on the
corn• laws, Thursday, January 21.
Lord John Russell—Committee of the whole House on the
navigation-laws, Thursday, January 21.
Mr. Moffatt —Return of the amount of duty received on
sugar, from the sth day of April, 1846, to the sth day of
January, 1847 ; specifying the amount received under the
different rates of duty, Thursday, January 21.
Lord John Russell—Select Committee on the Law of Set-

How are the:expenses of witnesses provided for ?—Theparties
at whose suggestions they are called pay them.
But if the Assistant-Commissioner thinks it right to call wit-
nesses, in order to satisfy himself, that would form part of the
general expenses2—Such expenses would be charged to the
general account.

[ADVERTISEMENT.]
PROCEEDINGS of the CLERICAL
MEDICAL, AND GENERAL LIFE ASSURANCE
SOCIETY.

tlement, Friday, January 22.
i‘r
John Russell—To bring under the consideration of
itself Chancellor
intoa
of
Committeethe E x che Exchequer—That rthe
T hwaht
otlhei s
HouseHou s e
on
no
thee
Customs and Excise Duties Acts, Friday, January 22.
L .
solvesio Pensioners, Tuesday, January 26.
the House the state of Ireland, Monday, January 25,
Lord
Mr. Secretary-at-War—Bill to abolish Poundage on Chel-
sea
Mr. John Feildeu—Bill to limit the hours of labour of
young persons and females in factories to ten hours a day,
Tuesday, Jan uary 26.
Mr. Christie—To inquire into the Universities and Colleges
of Oxford and Cambridge, Tuesday, February 2.
Mr. Watson—Bill for the further repeal of enactments im-
posing pains and penalties upon her Majesty's Roman Ca-
tholic subjects, on account of their religion, '1 uesday, Feb. 2.
Mr. Poulett Scrope—Resolution, That the lives of the
people of Ireland ought to be as valuable in the eye of the
law as the lives of the people of England; consequently it is
expedient to extend to Ireland the main principle of the
English poor-law, namely, the right of the destitute poor to
relief, from a public provision, to save them from perishing,
Tuesday, February 2.

(As reported January Bth, 1847.)
An extraordinary general meeting of the proprietors of
this society was held yesterday at the office in Great Russell-
street, for the purpose of declaring a bonus out of the profits
which have accrued from the general business of the society
during the five years ending June 30, 1846. Amongst the
directors present were Dr. Moore, G. G. Babington, Esq ,
Rev. A. B Clough, Thomas Davis, Esq., Oliver Hargreave,
Esq., and Clement Hue, M.D
Dr. MoorE having taken the chair, Mr. Pinckard, the
secretary, read the report of the assets and liabilities; the
former of which amount to 6'39,7971. 6s. 5d., and the latter
to 484,555/. Os. 5d., leaving a surplus of 155,2421. 6s.

The CHAIRMAN then stated thk his colleagues had an
thorised him to lay before the meeting the following report :
" In accordance with the provisions of the deed of consti.
stitution, the directors have called the present meeting, for the
purpose of laying before the proprietors and the a-sured the
result of an investigation of the society's affairs for the five
years ending June 30, 1846.
“Or. that day the society had been in existence twenty-
two years. An investigation of its affairs was made first in
1831, being seven years from the commencement ; a second
time in 1836; and a third time in 1841. The fourth inves-
tigation having been just completed, the directors have now
the gratification of communicating the result to the meeting.
" In order to present a clear view of the progress of the
society, the directors will proceed to exhibit the present
amount of its funds, together with their state at the last
quinquennial division.
"1. The society's Income for the year ending with June,
1841, was 97,900/. ; that for the year ending with June,
1846, 116,300/. Thus, notwithstanding the many de-
ductions which are constantly taking place, on account
of policies terminated by death or discontinued from other
causes, there is an increase in the annual income of the
society to the extent of 18,4001.
"11. The amount of the property of the society, accumulated
from the excess of receipts above payments, was in 1811,
418,9031., and in 1846 has reached 639,797/. Under the
head of payments are included considerable sums paid
for the purchase of policies, and also to annuitants, besides
the amount which has become due from deaths and every
other demand.
" 111. After deducting the sum required to meet the liabilities
of the society, there remains a surplus of 155,242/. •, while
in 1841 the corresponding surplus was only 89,4001.
"This sum of 155,242/., has now to be dealt with, being
the amount of profit realised by the society.
In conformity with the provisions of the deed, one half
of the profits is to be divided among the assured for life, and
one sixth part among the proprietors; but in order to avoid
inconvenient fractions, the directors have resolved to recom-
mend to this meeting to divide the sum of 154,500. This
will apportion to the assured, for life, 77,250/., and to the pro-
prietors, 25,750/. leaving one third of the said profit, amount-
ing to 51,5001., to be laid by and to accumulate as a reserved
fund.
"This division will give to the proprietors a bonus of 5/. 3s.
per share, and to the assured a sum of 114,031/., being the
equivalent in reversion to the above amount of 77,250/.
" This sum of 114,031/. will be added to the polices, and
be payable at the death of the respective parties, and will
form an addition equal, on an average, to more than 36 per
cent. on the premiums received during the last five years.
" It may be desirable, however, to remind the assured that
they have the option of having any one or more of the
bonuses to which they are, entitled applied in reduction of
their future payments of premium.
" For the further information of the proprietors it may be
mentioned that, by the deed of constitution, the Proprietors'
Fund is not to accumulate by the addition of bonuses beyond
50,000/. ; all subsequent bonuses being paid over to the Pro-
prietors.
" The effect of that provision on the present occasion will
be, that of the above sum of 25,750/., 17,000/. will have to be
added to the Proprietors' Fund, which will then have
reached its limit, and the remaining 8,750, being 1/. 15s. per
share, will be paid to the proprietors in cash at the end of
Match next.
" In estimating the amount of liabilities, it is important to
observe that every Policy, together with all other risks, has
been valued separately, and with great care ; and there has
been no encroachment upon future profits; but that a moL,e
of valuation has been adopted whereby a larger sum is re-
tained to meet such claims as may arise than is usual
with most other offices. This will appear by the following
examples :

EXPENSES OF PRIVATE BILLS
IN PARLIAMENT.
The effects of the expense of carrying private Bills through
Parliament are shown in the annexed quotations from the
minutes of evidence taken before the House of Commons last
session, and recently issued by order of that House. Mr. E.
Chadwick is the first witness :
In the visits which you have made to different parts of
the country, have you found many parishes and communi-
ties who have been in want of lighting, paving, or water,
but who have been unable or unwilling to come to Parlia-
ment, in consequence of the great expense now attending it?
--A great number of places. In fact, except two or three
towns and the county town, I might say that the smaller
country towns in the whole country are in that position. The
expense of a Water or Drainage Bill, if unopposed, would
he 5001. In the small town of St. Helen's, which required a
Water Bill, I think the expense of the works was 3,0001.,
and the expense of obtaining the permission of Parliament
to erect those works was I,ooot. Consequently, one-fourth of
the money upon whtch the inhabitants will have to pay interest
went for the Parliamentary expenses. In fact, the expense of
obtaining works for drainage of many villages, and rather im-
portant small towns, would equal the expense of laying down
the house drains ; and the expense of a water Lllll would
equal the expense of laying down the tenants' water pipes.
When the standing orders require that water shall be sought
by one Bill, and drainage, or the means of carrying away
water, by a second Bill, paving or cleansing by a third Bill,
the fees of the House and the professional expenses of these
Bills mount up, so as to render the expenses prohibitory ; the
money expended in procuring Acts under which, in some of
the larger towns, only ineffective and expensive works have
been produced, might have sufficed to obtain good works. The
money expended in Liverpool for the private Act legislation,
the results of which have been desc• ibed to the Committee, it
may be confidently asserted would have sufficed for the effectual
drainage of upwards of 20,000 houses.
( T. Greene, Esq., ALP.)
Would you propose that communities should have the power
of adopting any of those branches, by the sanction of the
Secretary of State, or whatever department they were under,
on application to him, as is now done with respect to rating?
—lt may be a prejudice, but I have rather a disposition that
sfa
ctory to the
country at large
individual • and I
think the expenses,
than that it should be vested in any onen
e se t complained of so
they should be obliged to come to Parliament t on those matters;
I think it would be more satisfactory
mode of settling the question of the
rn are
at present
by having a short Bill,
and by having some better
standing orders.
heavily, would be a
be many communities and parishes so poor
Would not there
h
as net to be able to incur t e actual fees of the House, even
?-1 hardly think
good whicdheal
the other attendant expenses
without any of
circumstances of
that there would be, under the improvement
of private Bills ;because
which I think would attend the passing
of isnot the fees taken
expense they have to complain
the great
_hof the
in the House, but in point
agents and witnesses brought up.
How would you propose
_. to
lessen those expenses of the
agents and witnesses? _With respect to the standing orders, a
would be saved if, prior to the meeting of
great deal of expense
Parliament, some officer o
' ted
f the House were appoin to - , ake
the whole of the evidenceupon the compliance and non-com-
pliance with the standing
orders of this House; that officer
would have ample time, beginning a few weeks prior to the
meeting of Parliament,
to make an inquiry of that description ;
and he could regulate the time when each party should ap- _
Id not be the case, as at present, that wit-
pear, so that it sh
nesses are kept i
town for a considerable length of time,
because it was Impossiblen exactly to say when a particular Bill
.d . .
but he might arrne the
under consi eration ,
• and
would come
would be here a very short period ,
and the parties
time,
be, siting the whole of the day, would be able to complete the
inquiry in a very brief space 0f time.
Do you consider that . d
a that woo: be preferable to any proof
be in attendance ?
on the spot, where all the witnesses would
1I
an, see so objection to it ;
If that appear to be e. cheaper p

By Offices,
Sums set aside as the valuJvaluing by the By the Mode Difference in
Northampton adopted by favour of tkls
of a Policy for 1,0001. Three per this Office. Office.
Cent. Table.
X s. d. X s. d. A s. d.
Effected at the Age of 40,
after 10 Years - - 152 3 7 158 8 b 6 4 10
Effected at the Age of 50,
atter 10 years - - 197 17 3 215 2 0 17 4 9
Effected at the Age of 60,
after 10 years - - 282 7 5 326 3 0 43 15 7

"It is clear, then, that the prospects of the policyholders
at future divisions are most favourable, partly from the un-
usually large sum retained to meet claims, as shown above,
and partly from the reserve of so considerable an amount as
51,500/., out of profits thus ascertained.
"These facts, which have operated to a certain extent in
the diminution of former bonuses, will undoubtedly contri-
bute most powerfully to increase the amount of profits to be
appropriated to the assured at all succeeding divisions.
"In confirmation of this view, the Directors need only
remind the assured of the statement made at the division in
January, 1842, that the two preceding bonuses had averaged
22 per cent. on the premiums ; that the one then divided
averaged 28 per cent., and that the future bonuses were ex-
pected to exceed that amount.
"The most sanguine expectations entertained at that time
have been fully realised by the amount of the present bonuse
averaging more than 36 per cent. ; and on precisely the
same grounds the Directors conceive themselves entitled to
assert, with additional confidence, that its further increase
from time to time is almost certain.

.‘ The large and increasing amount of the Society's busi-
new, and the proportionate diminution of the expense of
management (which is now only 3% per cent. on the
income), must also be taken into account in the anticipation
of future profits.
" The Directors have only to add, that they have in-
structed the actuary to exhibit to any proprietor or policy
holder, or to any person who may be desirous of assuring,
the details of all the calculations, with a full statement of
the assets and liabilities, and balance-sheets of the Society."
So far as he (the Chairman) was concerned, any comment
was unnecessary, for he believed the report would speak sa-
tisfactorily, both to the proprietors and the assured:—
(Applause.) He would, however, just call the attention