The Sun.
London, England, 1812-05-22 00:00:00

. ,
Right Hen. Fiend world'saythat .the offer was
In opinion made to him but with a wish and hope
that han.ght be accepted: He was- persuaded that
e'
Right H n. Friend would acknritivjedge that it
was made eetli pet feta sincerity. Had his -Right
"on.
Friend become. one of the confidential advisers
• barn
the 'Crown, it ‘.vould nave been unnecessary for
liirn Co bring forward in that House the motion of
wli;ch he had not ice, because .I,e'woeld have
had the power to call the attention of: the servants
.the Crown themselves t 9 the subject: •did
110 t say, that his Might Hon. Friend had aated err°.
1,,!°%1y declining the otlef• wl.ich was made-to
but certainly, his only objection to the ac-
"ePtance of it, the very circumstance of his becom-
ing a' Minister of the Crown would have bee) a
.tifficient reason for his bringing for Ward the gees-
etton in the shape to which he bad just alluded. He
understood, howevet, that his Right Hon. Friend
3tPerienced other difficulties in acceding to the
Otopositioa which had been made to him. He un-
tlerstood that t.is Right Hon. Friend thought the
Catholic Question ought to be taken up by Govern-
ment without delay. That opinion would unques.
bor°.)l ee...,yform•a bar to union ; but how far his Right
Friend went on this poiet he knew not. All
• e could distinctly state was, that the proposition
W„,'B nlai!e to hie Right Hon.-Friend with the ut-
,:%l sincerity of heart ; that those who made it
auxtons to-have -the accession of his abilities;
2.1 that they felt great • regret at finding that wish
ttpoioted.- He did not profess to find any fault
17 his' Right Honourable and Learned Friend
'1 -the subject, but he repeated that the circuit).
ttince was one ,which occasioned great regret. He
bad in his possession a document which had
been seen by his 'Right Honourable 'Friend,
‘l(iiprellending• the feelings of Administration on
this. subjed. With reSpeet to the character of the
it'ulnitliseeetion that was about to be formed; the
2'use 'oceeht -to recolledt, that his Noble Friend
i;"" Was at the head-of it .(Zhe Earl or Liverpool)
4:1 ten or eleven years ago, been declared'by•Mr.
Pitt to be an individual at least equal to any of the
Un Gentlemen opposite, in talents, in- integrrty,
prknh characterWitti the single exception of 'Mr.
t°x• Had -his. Noble Friend-done any thing since
vi'it period to forfeit that charatter ? But it there
Ivete no other objection to the present'motion, he
e'uld ask his. Holt. Friend on what principle he
11'"Id reconcile his wish to see the Gentlemen -Op-
tl.usite in power, with his former Parliamentary opt-
t,ll°"` ? He. had no desire' to say tning persOnally
eusive, but lei the House consider the principles
eilresen by those Gentleman; and the conduce
sari, they had persued. Let them consider the
11,,r'"us questions which) had been discussed in Par-
idgell'"upropriety t, and then reflect on' the of
VP'ing a measure, the tendency of whico was to
ng poAer the men, whose opinions on those
iQuestions the sense of Parliament had determined so
it(Piej4tedl to be erroneous. Had ht: no other 0b-
e,.." to the motion, that with him would be sut-
lent- and if he were not much nrstaken, ,the
Wore, unless they were disposed to abandofi every
t4pc`Ple which they had hitherto maintained, and
tehuTtish those onjects which they had hitherto
att"e'l'!erect essential to the security and glory of
k.countly, would not hesitate to refusing to accede
Itils!r• CAN NtsG declared, th-'t it had not been his
Or intention to address toe-House on the pre-
toesteerision ; not because he lad the presumption
tell l3Pose that the mot ion had any reference to him-
ttn, that on a motion for an A 'dress to the Re-
renio.e the present Adoiinistration, be was
toy to say any thing wuich might be imputed
tito`fid;bithial ; that he was earnestly soh-
vit.`" ell to dismiss trout his mind. • But, the way in
10, he hid been appealed to by his' Right Ho-
tbike'rable Flient rendered it, nett sslr y for him to
ettt r„"vithirut nleatiing any unkuldne.s, or reproof,
t're,"'"it say that he his Right Honourable
dat',ad called upon him tee her untliirly- . What
tteik'ss•ei vcrhall) in the tete transactions was by
nt reduced to wri:lng. To that mi.
l'e C 4 g) reterred—not technically,
'N.,. IY, leuii the, Honourable Member tor Yolk-
tiati `hutted take, tke unworthy advant ge of
the fig Out )rne.ut had no cogniz ace of
That was' certainly true ; but
4tiqlt, Ri, hi• Hortoui'atiiie Friend reterred to the
Ileetity of-c,,t• IC doer for Yorkshire on that head,
dot. old h Ve a eeti web it in his own practice he had
ktliveontradieled that outliority. His Complaint
Vell(i'st his Right Hon. Friend as, that he' had tra-
Va,, ()tit of the record: d tad, which, act:omit% to
V:ecuent of all p.-rties, was to ee constde,ed as
te.:• He ix as sorry tot this, because to some of
rit,lcit'tions put to him by his Right Honourable
41, Zhe could not reply, without (and he protest...
tl_,lng was-further hom tits intention), iipptar-
`ll oth uefending his Own conduct to impute blame
tlt :11.8 His Might Honourable Friend had asked'
s,„ eeeti , had
-I be ler- if he accepted office, he would
citil)iejo,sat liberty to act in the Cabinet upon nis own
~Nwtuectn a certain great question.? Undeubiedly-he
I,el, "at be should have been so at Ilberty. He had
4\clteitill.earit to say that it be had joined the prcsalt
t alt int'lratiore---4 he had accepted the proposition to
th
1-I•use against his own pi inciple.s,under
tiers of the Noble Lord, be would not hate
het,gitnled to a solitary speech and vote in the Ca-
it
'
eeett did not say that there were not honour.
erah ds that would not be satisfied with such an
g
liB 001_ erbeut • It was his misfortune that his mind,
tfieenv (s) constructed.. He: would -never lend. the
htath of his character (be it what it might), or
1m euts °titY °t office in opposition to his fixed sen-
t N asto, or would he accept of office under the
tirofai" that he was todiveSt hiMself Of the itiflu--
iCI to lelt"tity any rate)en one great q
is us
ues-
Oat,c_ave th;it authority in hopeless a,t)(l
tt'trt.,o:o• All th!s had been extorted from him. He
ot torn. for his sentiments to the deliberative
G wont them which. was before the public, and not
It ‘‘''ll"g froM him by a most unfair applica-
tOas mae no fault of his if in justifying himself,47N. lelled to contrast his opinion with that of
tli age bnritli respect to the question before the
teatt We Perfectly agieed in the-general doctrine,
the'tile ias the exclusive prerogative of the Crown
list '4) is
Own 'Ministers. He admitted that the
be
the.'4 estrong in which Parliament, was justi-
‘l44eter "ring. But Parliament had a double
hest 41'0 e t "was a Council ofConlroul ; but it
tetiviti
.nuncil of Advice. He was but ill-read,
ovt Journals of Parliament, but in the Cone
tile country, who would contend,' ih'at

•in bo case of this nature, Parliartant,,if it thOtight
peoperld do so, might not interfere, and by :11b
ierposition of advice prevent the necessii.y of con-
t. roul. That was a dangerous Species of argument,
which went to show how absurd some p.;.rticular o:-
rence was by bringing forward another as less ab-
surd and groundless. His Right Hon. Friend had
used,this argument with peculiar infelicity. j He had
stated, that in 17g4, in_times of great turbulence,
the House of Commons never adopted so dangerous
a proceeding as to interpose their advice to the
Crown with
.respect to the Miuistrv. No-;-they
took a more mitigated course; they adopted the
constitutional. proceeding of addressing the Sovereign
to continue their own existence ! Had that been
the present proposition., his Right Hon. Friend would
have had some sbadow.of argument, when he con-
tended, that it was, proposed to do too Much, If
• the reverse had been the case—if the precedent were
a motion foran Address to the Sovereign, requeSt-
inghirry to form an efgcient Ministry, and the pre-
sent. propo,rition were an Address to, the Sovereign,
praying hiM not to dissolve Parliament, his. Right
Honourable Friend might 'have con,ended with
great force and effect, that although former
Parliaments did stretch their pOwer by advis-
ing the Sovereign with- resped to his Administra-
tion, they had never, by addressing him to 'conti-
nue their existence, removed those land-marks of
'the Constitution; the destruction of which would
render Parliament an illegitimate authority, and not
the rut representative' of the people. Having said
thus much in justification of the motion, he must
beg leave_utterlY to,diselairn all. knowledge of the
intention of bringing it forward. No man admired
more than he did the independent conduct and vi-
g,rous talents of -the Hon. Mover i no man' would
oe more proud to,ca4 him his Honourable Friend;
but iE there were'any,man in the House whom he
should have s',-46ied as likely to evince the most de-
termined political hostility towards himself, it was ,
that Hon. Gentleman, It the . House therefore
were surprised at the motion he was not less so.—
The' motion had beeri met by the. Order of the Day.
Whit. ! 'was it come to that ?- An unheard of mo-

tiorer—a motion trenching upon the, prerogative—in-
verting the march of the Constitutional powers—
wresting the very sceptre froM the hand of theSove-
reigit, to b, mel by passing to the Order of the day !
Not by an indignant negiitive---not by a censure of
the Mover—not by closing the door, and consider-
ing what should be &me to the bold tnnovator. No,
this unheard of—this mouStrous proposition was
met by the Order of th-Day, and that by an AdMi-
nistration which pronounced itself strong enough
'successfully to carry on the affairs of the country.
The Honourable Mover of the Order.of the Day had
said, that he (Mr. Canning) demanded a concession
of principle as the conditions of his . acceptance, of
offi..:e. He referred to his recorded minute for a,
confutation of this assertion. Ali he had asked for
was information whether the opinions and policy of
Government continued the same His. Noble
Friend, with that candour which had always dist.in-
,. guished him, replied, that his own opinion conti-
nued the same, and that he was not aware of any
change in that of his colleagues. His Right Hon.
Friend had said, that if he (Mr. Canning) had con-
sented to accept office on the terms that were pro-
posed to him (that was, with the knowledge that
the individual at the head of the Government re-
mained of the same opiniot) his motion would be,
unnecessary. True he' might have moved it in the
Cabinet, and been beaten there ; but he preferred
moving it in the House, even if he were beaten
there, for it would spew that he had not forfeited
his pledge. His Right Honourable Friend ,asked of
his (Mv. Canning's) opinions, as if he had recently
adopted them.
,It was not so. He-had held-them
ever ; but he had thodght it was much better for the
Catholics and the people of Ireland, to interpose his
feeble shier between the Monarch and the country
.and not hazard, by any means, the peace of the
empire, and,,the tranquiliy of his venerable Sove-
reign. But that which he yielded to the conscienti-
ouseese of his Sovereign, he was not disposed to yield
to the convenience of Ministers. He would have set-
feted obloquy to the last moment of his life, rather
than ha've plAuted his Sovereign's pillow with thorns.
But rt:was too much to expect that he would treat
Ise policy and opinions of individuals as he had
been disposed to treat the irremovable conscience of
the, King. To that obstacle aucceeded the obstacle
opposed by his late lamented Right Honourable
Fteendi. Did he treat the scruples of his Right
HMI. Friend as he had treated those of his Sove-
reign ? , Did he fail to act orr the -opinion which he
had advanced ? • With respect to his Noble Friend
now at the head of his Majesty's Government, he
paOtestedthA he had no earthly objection 4 to him,
lied that he would have no hesitation in serving r;th
•him, or under him, on any subject but the Catholic
Chins. On that subject his Noble. Friend approached
nearly to hts Right Hon. Friend,
.and he would not
.consent 'therefore to place himself in a 'siwat;on
where his Noble Friend's opinions must predo-
initiate.. Did he therefore demand a concession to
his opinion ? .No. All he atiked was, to let. the
subject be fairly considered, where alone it cculd be
considered without heats and animosities, and H here,
he predieled, let the. Ministers be whom they
It must, at no distant period, be consiJered=the Ca.
,binet. His Right Hou. Friend had asked Mtn (and
again unfairly) whether he had not seen a statement
of the limieitiou of opinions entertained by the dif-
ferent AZembers of the Cabinet ? 'He bad seen
He did not wish .to speak disrespectfully ; but, as he
was forced to speak, he, wOuld observe, that on re-
ceiVieg it he had written a note to his Right Hon.
Friend, in perfectly, good humour, stating, that, es
far as he had been able to make' it out, this docu-
went seemed to be of a controversial nature. It
would be unfair to impute to it that it bow awed
the opinion cf the. Gibinet, for it conveyed no
determined opinion ; it was what- Mr. Burke
had called a hors is siccus Aaf disseni, a most beauti-
ful speciMen of various opinions on the great clues,
tions of State. He- subscribed, to all that had been

said of the sincerity of the spirit in which the
overtures had been made to him. He' wished to cast

no.slur on the motives of his Noble Friend, for
whom, for twenty years, he had, cherished the
wiartnest friendship.. Each might conscientiously

entertain an opinion different tro-ni the of he►s ; and,
once for all, he would state, that the question on
which they diffeted was—not whether instant con-

ces.ion should be•made to the Catholics, but whe-

ther in th., temper of the times, in the presot state
of Europe—in the convulsions which ogiutcd the

world, it ‘atild not be wise to allay the anxiety of
the public mind, by taking the sUbjeainto consi-
deration in the Ctebitiet rather than leaving it loose
for discussion in Parliament. Had he, with this
diflereoce of opinion, accede] to the'Cabinet, he
must have sacrificed his cliaraMer, and without eh !-
teeter no Mao could be of use to h''s country. I f
'any change were to take 'place in the sentiments of
Administration on this most important subje&i, and
they were to say that it should be considered liy Go-
vernment; although perionally he should be out of
the question, he would.hail the declaration with tke
utrmist-sirrcerity of joy.
Mr. RYDE4 explained.
Lord CASTLBilinGit entertained' no doubt of the
right of Parlianpnt to give any advice to the Crown.
that they might think, fir. No moment was pre-
mature to arrest the arm of the Crown in the exer-
cise of an .act which it way to recaLe But
then Parliament must attend -to the policy and ne-
cessity of the case. They would net abuse the power
to'show'that they could use it. They would well
weigh any such proposition. They, mild examine
the grounds 'on which it was recommended. They
would' consider what had been the praOce of Par--
liament ; and from this combined investigation, they
would determine what condua it became them to
in the exercise of their high fonaions. He
contended hat to pass to the order of the day would
be a more sound constitutional- mode of meeting
the question than giving it a direct negative, It
marked the competence 'of Parliament to interfere
while it denied the necessity of the particular case.
Of all moments, 'the present,- vhen it WAS not in
the power of any man to say exaaily who were in
office, was the -most improper for.' such an address 'as
that proposed. He admitted- that the exigencies of
the State called for a powerful and combined Go-
vernment. He would not now- consider whether
the trials which had been mide to obtain such a
Government,. ought not to have been,more success-
ful., He willingly adMitted that unless the Noble
Lord and the Right Hon.. Gentleman thought they
could accept mil-ice consistently with' public and
private honour, they 'were justified in declining
but the fact was, the Councils of his Royal High-
ness had, since the termination- of the restrictions,
been occupied in attempting to form a broad, strong
and :efficient Administration. It might hanpett,
without: imputing blame to any one, that with the
utmost efforts tf the Crown, such difficulties might
exist in combining public men as to render the for-
mation of such an Administration as that now so
earnestly desired, impradicable. In tVB3, for - ,
period of near two months, the only individual
who was in a situation to cal; himself a Represen-
tative of the Crown, was obliged to state in his place
that his Majesty .had made every effort to produce
an efficient Admiriistration ; but that up to that
period all his efforts' had proved- abortiVe. Did the
'Hon. Mover of the Address mean that if the Clown
could not effect that-which it wished to effeet; and ,
which it was so desirable to effect, that ate country
should therefore be left without art Administration ?
The Honourable Mover ought to have stated his
opinion of the prattical course which the Crown
ought to pursue, in order to rescue the country
from one of its most serious -difficulties, and to
reconcile public men,- differing as they did, not
on one, but -on many questions of -policy.- With
reference to the conduct pursued by himself
and his colleagues in their advice to the Re-
gent, since the death of his lamented friend, who
was the pride, and :might have been 'the saviour of
the country, he would state that they had declared
to his Royal Highness, while they recommended, if
possible, to form a combined Administration, that
they would never shriek front 'lwo- duty to his
Royal Highness and the country at so arduous a pe-
riod, and that they should consider themselves the
basest of men if they suffered the hand of. an assassiti
to have such a poxerful effea as to compel them
suddenly to abdicate their situations, or pusillani-
mously to advise his Royal Highness to abandon
that course orpolicy which had been pursued for so
many years, which they sincerely believed was the
wisest that could be adopted, and to which-Parlia-
ment and the country had so 'repeatedly-given their'
cinaion. No ; though deprived of their bulwark,'
though pressed down .by public and private feeling,
they:suggested to his Royal Highness to exercise his
judgment in the ferroation of a ntqv Administration,
and expressed their determination, if his Royal
Highness should fail in 'this effort, to stand by hitn,
to preserve the. Crown from any inroads which
might be attertitned upon. it, and to save the coun-
try from the odium of having allowed such an atro-
cious as as that recently committedeto, change the
whole tenor and .complexion of,, its r policy. He
might, perhaps, be-permitted -to say S. single word
'about himself. He had occupied•as. few minutes of
the time of :the House in observations on his own
conduCt as any man, but in justification in the part
which he had consented to take in the late trans-
adion, House would do him injustice if they
did not allow him to_ declare, that while he would
not leave his Royal Highness until he. saw what'
could be effected, he' was anxions to relieve his
Royal Highness from any difficulties arising out of
considerations in which he wits persoually concerned.
He did not eome to the Government from impa-
tience of office, or motives of unwoulty ambit too ;.
he,came to render his feeble, assistance .to it, at a
moment when the principles on which it had until
that period proceeded were hazarded, by the seces,
lion of a ,Noble Marquis. He should have felt
wholly incapable and unfit for the digtharge of the
duties entrusted to him, had he not been conscious
that rfo effort short -of the sacrifice of honour ought
to be wanting on his part; to relieve the A !minis-
.

tration of the country from any difficulty growing
not of his personal situation. He did feel that there

might be circumstances whichwoLiid .embarrasi his

. -
colleagues in their attempt to avail them-elves of

the tarots of others. therefore, without any d's-
posiion to shrink from the arduous,stiuggle (a fet-1-:
ing of which, he trusted, his nature was incapable)
he badthaught -it his duty to tender his resigoar)Oo
to his Royal Highness, and by thus putting hirnsi-lf
out of the question, give► facilities for the formation,
of an extended Administration, and more particu-
larly with reference to the condodt'of it with ability
in the House of Commons. If that resignation was
not accepted by his Royal Highness, or listened to
by his colleagues, he was not answerable for these'

circumstances; for it w.is tentlert.d witl► a most

Anxious wish that it should be receivel. Adverting
to the doentnems which had been published in the
newspapers,: heexpressed his astonishment that they

had got, there so soma. He had never' seen them
until yesterday morning ; for•until the whole nego-
ciation was finished, motives of delicacy induced
him to be no party to it. That measure was taken
V the Cat ) net on its own grounds,' and he had not
been present at any of their discussions. The No-
ble Lorsl thought the House ought to. be apptised of
the pra,lical opinions of the Right Honourable Gen-,
tlern;n on tiSe subject of thoSe claims, in order that
tt t&gitt be ascertained whether.. the advantage of
his great vilents 'in the formation of an Administra
tion would lead to a " decisive measure. Isdith-'
_hold ng that su-pplort for the reasons which he .had
adduced, did, he mean to state that in what he +ern)»
ed his consideration" of the queStion, precipitate
conc,>ssions should be made? He Was aware'that
Gent!etre!) opposite, in their view of the subjec"t,
did not consider precipitate concession as the neces-
sary consequence or, inquiry—they only recognized
the riOit. At the same time he .was,disposed to al-
niit that, the question was a firndamental one, Ai
conneeled•wirti the public intercsts.•
to the poliCy, if he we4-e. to state his own corwttp-,

iutns upon ttfe policy of torming an AdministratioA
at the present momentous crisis, he should say th::t
to turn his back on all other questions but the ca-
tholic question, was a Line 01. cond,ua danger:lns in
the extreme. .To create a Government for the ex-
press purpose of con4ideritig .the Catholic Ciaims,
appeared so preposterous a proposttion, thu
not imagine the Right Honourable genelettem ex-,
peeted the House to sanction it ; yet such was his
hope or expedation • before 'he • would consent to
take °lac. The Right H rnourable G-inthiman
would dq great service to the putili;,-7, it he tvild
state whnt he distiuelly meant to propose, in that
What t ould be the rational probability of
security- from the• Catholic, body,, consistent with
that repugnance which the Protestant Establishment
telt ? lf.,he would condescend to state any safe
propo-ition,: he, assured. the Right Honourable
he shon.lsl have his support. But he
would assure the .Right Hon. Gent. that he never
saw the, possibility of giving way to these claims
With perfett security. He. \was friendly
..to them
under regulations consistent with the•safety of the
Established Religion, out he never had made those
claims the instrument of political power.••---(Hear,
hear ! froth Sir J. .A ezopo7t.) —Notvtithstanding
what the Hon. Baronet had chosen to assert on a
limner night, and to sing again to-night, 'the fa&
W.rs. so. He _had *uniformly given his 'support to
the question, and would 'again, if it could be car-
ried without convulsion ; but he would never let it
be.a- stalking horse to disturb- larger and more
,irn-
potant questions. He had unifornq adhered to
those opinions during the administration of Mt.
Pitt,' and hen .he joined Lord Sidmouth, but had
ra,t given any pledge at the Union ; he had stated
as much in .hislast visit to England, previous to the.
'Union, lc> the Cabinet. Although he was mock
iiidebltd to the CathoLcs for carrying thai measure
through, yet it was understood by ahem that the
questi.m of Ernancipetion,. as it is -called, swas.not.
mixed %it!' the Uteon. The Noble Lord declared.
he Wou!d'not separate from his Colic. goes in a mo-
ment of great pitblic,calamity, upon the mere ques-
tion of the Catholic Claims, without. knOvaing what
practical means could be devised of security in the
event of their praye:s being 'granted. ‘Heobjt:tied
to that principle whiCh would gO the
,length taf
mak4ig the Cabinet di6late to the Parliament. Such.
a- principle was a direct violation of the Coos;itu•z,
tion. With respect to the war in the Peninsula, the,
wisdom of Parliament looked to the prosecution
of the war on a large scale, convinced that it must
be either advantageous or fatally destructive. Was
this a time When the cause might be said to be
truly Britislishen the glbry of it shone so con-
spicnous--4as this a time to abandon it, when the
country was employing nearly .9.0 millions steiling
annually, and carrying it on, including the Army,
the Navy; the Supplies, and the Subsidy ? This
certainly was. Dot• the lime to run, the nalonal cha-
racter down. . ,Adverting to the main question be-
fore the House, the Noble Lord maintained that the
motion was

case.

Mr. CANNING 'tTude afew ob;eywatiOns icy expl,l-
- • ' •

• Sir Jorrg I\4I.F.‘:VPORT ,noticed the observations
the -,-Noble 'Lord, respecting the Union, and de-
clared his i,terition. of repeating: the charge 3
aoinst the N ble Lord, of not fulfilling hfs en-
gagements. The Noble Lord, might- say, he had
not given any' pledges. True, lie might nq ; but
to honourable minds,-engagements were as bind.
irg as-pledges. il:. Union was carried by theseeu-
ga;eMent, by sinister, dirk,,andprivate means, and
notwilfsfandisig what the Noble Lord, had said, ht.:
would cdminue to sing the sawe,soug, ua he fol.
tilled his :,ngagt meats--he would not leave him a
S,hsiOo, no, not Id( a Se,.sion, without teminding
him of his ins'ocerily and tergiversation, and-conse-
quently of drawing- upon hi n the merited, obloquy
of the litthhc.—(Order, Order !)
Mr, MARTIN (Of GJiway) observed, .that the NO-.
ble Lord hied some chrlic.il6e;'s upon the subject of
the Catholic dernands,--those,demands had beet (al..
ready dttailed on the face-ot t he' P,titions. It there-
fore remained for the' Government to say what
ctrins they were ready to grant. He wished the
Noble Lord would appoint a day for that purpose,
as the proposition would come with mere propriety'
from the Government than ,tr,zrn the Right Ito.'
noorab:e Gentlern..n. With respe'A- to the motion,
he should vote for the Amendment, if' the Noble
Lord would day that an Administration should be

formed on.ari extended basis;. it not be would vcte
for the original
,motion.

Lord cASTLEVEAGII denied that he hai stated his
ignorance 01 the,detuand's of the Catholics.

Mr. S. WORTLEY replied very 6,horOy, express-
ing* his det!:ruttn:ition not td go the length of the
,Hunnurable Ci:•ntletnao (Mr, Wilberforce) in his
doctrines, for he must say that he never Le.ird a
speech so. full of unconstitutional doctrine 4. The

Noble Lord had failed to prove, that all bad been

done which ought to have been done.
The house then di'.ided on, the motion- of Mr.

Eyre.

A yes
Noes

.
Mmjority against it . 4
The original rriot ion for the Address was of course.-
ca: ried.

Previous to ihe re-opening the Gallery- (as we
understood), • Mr. S WoaTi.riv was italoced, .c)
withdraw his pro:-nsitions tor, carry ingup-Abe AA-

dreis by the whole Honse, and !o move -that it be,
carried up by.sucti Alen.btrs as are of the Privy
Connell.
On the question, a division took place.
Al es
Noes

Copy of Lord W I's Reply to Lo:LVT:•:•,t
Lxpl:;natory Letter of the 19th, Alay, • given iii our

'aper of ywerday.

MY D!AR LORD,

Apsley Hots• :,'May at, tfiz.

Aithougil you have had the goo arress to dispense
my redlining any answer to your letter of the
tgth instant, some faitherpbset pations on my part
may, perhaps, contribute to pr,..mote the pr4.tessed
objet} of that letter, by extol ainingand corre&ing
whatever may appear doubtful or erroneous the
course of our recent correspondence.
When yOu informed me, that your opinion upon
the claims of the Ronian 'Catholics remained un-

Majority against it . —2,
The G4llery was then re-orened, and we found
Doi.% WORTIASY expressed nis regret, that he had
been induced to withdraw his motion for carrying
up the Address by the whole House. The country
would see that a minority of two under the circum-
stances they were obtained was similar to triumph,
notwithstanding he,had been talceu by surprise.
Admiral FlAtivEN wished to exoon the grounds
of bit vote, but was called to order.
Mr. WHITBREAD, sexing the si!tiation which
tie House way placed by the proceeding adopted,
obsei-ved, t hat the Noble Lord had induced his Ho-
nourable Friend to withdraw his motion incautious-
ly. • lie appe +led to the Chair, to ascertain in what
mannerstlie resolution could heconvey.ed to the throne.
The 'SPEAKER informed the _House, that there
were_ only t • Mod.-g ; namely—by the .whole
House. or by .such Members ai were of the Privy
Counc-1. The House *id negatived: the motion
for catrying the Resolution •up by the:latter mode
--and t lierefore the only alternative was to carry it
up by the whole House.
Nlr. C. WYNNE moved, "That it be presented
to his Royal Higliness by the Mover and Seconder,"
(Mr. Wortley and Lord Milton.)
The Spe...Kka observed, that it was his duty to
note, Oat he knew of no departure from the usual
course in these cases, which course he had a*eady
3lt ,blit , nevertheless,itwas for the Hou.e to decide.
Mr. WouTt.r.v had no objef:tion to obey the corn-
marv.l" of the House, and should consider it the
prondest day of his life.
After some further discussion, the gallery was
cleared for a division, hot the Hriuse LIA not divide,
and the mo.ion was carried.—Adjout ned at Half-past
EL yen o'clock.

Consols,

MR :I:, OF STOCI,S.
THIs DAv AT TWILM'CLOCK.
. Red. Ann. - 59; 601 6o

'IH

S U N.

3,,LKM QUIS LIICAItt IiALSUNI (kUPPI, A

LONDON.
ninkyt MAY 22, 1812.

changed, and that you were not aware of any change
in the opinion of your Colleagues on that subject, I
certainlyconcluded, tllgt the policy, which had been
pursued, during the present' session of Parliament,
would be continued by the new Cabinet. Subse-
quent refleaiop satisfies me, that such a conclusion
was just and teasollable ; nor ran I admit that I have

,A Debate of very considerable length took place
yesterday in the House of Commons upon Mr.
STUART WORTLEY'S Motion for .an Address to the
PRINCE-REGENT, praying that he would be pleoled
to form a strong and Efficient Administration. We
shall not at present occupy the time of our Readers
with considering the propriety of an interference of
of tt,is hi::d before the new Administration has

begun to a&, or, indeed, before it has been
compietely formed. The Motion was carried
by a majority of four. - What may be the
consognence of vote of the House of Corn-

tilo!lo., it is imOosNible to foreiee, but it is cer

calzohted to excite the most serious teilec

1.1J1S: It
.130 W appears, both from the Correspon•
deuce which we published yesterday, and from wha!

fallen into any misapprehension of that system of
policy, when have described it at consisting not
only in tho denial of any present relief to' the Ro-
man Catholics,. but even, a peremptory retusal to
consider the state of the law which affects tlieir civil

condition.
Whatever may be' the different charaCteteor com-
plexion of the opinions of the several Members of
the present Cabinet, ars praCtical result has been to
pursue the course which I have described, during
the present session of Parliament ; and your explaa
nation on this point closes with an admission, that
year are all agreed to continue the same policy in
the present moment.
No 'suggestion is made of the time or circum-
stances, in which any alteration of this system• of
policy can be expeeted 5 no prospeit is afforded of
any, conciliatory proceeding, which might tend to
open the, way to an amicable settlement ; and, while
a desire or hearing specific propositions of security is
professed; the- very consideration of she question is
defiled td Parliament, and is not pursued by any
other authority._
This statement is no misapprehension of the te-
net' of your explanatory letter ; and in such a atate
of the praetical consequences of the united Councils
of the present Cabinet, it ifiry be ereemed superfluous
to analyse individual sentiments. •
This task- (however useless with regard to present
praitice) is required froiu me, by the strong pro'est
which you have made against any inference to.be
drawn from any declaration of your's, ".that it is,
" or ever has been your oeinion, that under no cir-
" cumstances, it would be possible to make any alte-
" ration in the laws respetting the Roman
Catho-
f° To this protest you have added an assur-
ance, " That von. the last occasion, on which the
" subjed was discussed.irt Parliament, you expressly
" stated that circumstances might arise, in which, in
" your judgment, some alteration in those laws
" would 'be advisable."
I confess freely to you, that I had always under-
stood your recorded opinion on this subjeel in a very
different sense: had.supposed that you consideaed
the disabilities_ imposed by statute [Tom the !Lillian
Catholics, not as Tempora, y and occasional securities,
against a temporary and occasional danger, bat as
an integral and permanent part of the Constitution
in Church aid State, established at the Revolujon.
In this opinion, I had always understood, that se-
veral of the principal Members of the present Cabi-
net.concurred with you; and that you falt, in com-
mon, an apprehension, that the removal of any im-
portant Matt of this system of restraint would en-
danger the foundations of the Establishment of our
Laws, Liberties, and Religion.
Viewing in this light your sereiments, and those
of the respeaable persons to whom I refer, I am
persuaded that I shall not. be suspeCted of intending
to cast any reflection upon the honour or honesty
of those principlas, or of the persons whO main-
tain them.
I have ever considered those princieleato be pure
and..• honest in the minds in Which' I supposed
them to reside ; and, while I gave full credit to
their sincerity, I lamented their erroneous founda-
tion and dangerous tendency.
I must farther declare, that from some accident,
I did not hear the statement in Parliament to which
you refer, as having been made by you, on the last
Occasion, iu the House of Lords. •
I now, however, understand your opinion to be,
that circumstances may arise, in which, in your
judgment, some alteration would be advisable in ttie
laws tiffeeling the Roman Catholic.
I should be desirous of urging • the same inquiry
respecting cireumstatiras, which, you have made re-
speating securities ; and I should be auxieus to hear
the specific statemept of ALL, OR ANY' OF 41110 SE
CIRCUMSTANCES, under which you would 2d,vise
any alteration in tire laws respelling the Romeit Ca-
aholics.
The explanation, which you require respecting
securities, is attainable only by a full coolideration
arid dismission of the whole subject ; and I theie-
foie view the declared intention of resisting the.
first teen towards such a discussion, as an effectual
barrier against that explanation, which you consider
to bp the, necessary preliminary to any alteration of
the existing statutes.
The deails of your reasoning on this part of the
question, render the prospeet of any settlement uta
terly Inipeless. You require a change in the state of
the opinions, feelings, conduit, and temper of the
Roman Catholics, as a preliminary, even to the con.,
sideratioa, of the causes of their complaints. But
is it possible to expel effeetualchange in the tem-
per of the RomaneCatholic- Body, while yea refuse
even to inquire intothe•nature of their grievance, *?.
Tract repeated rejection of their claim, without
any other deliberation titan that which has arisen
on tye mere question of 'taking the petition into
consideration, 13 not a course of proceeding calcu-
lated to mitigate. the aeverity of disappointment.
Reason and moderation must appear in our consi-
deration of their prayer, it we hope to infuse those
qualities into their proceedings.
\ on require also a change in the circumstances
of Velrope.—lgnorant of the events which may have
furnished any hope of such a change, since I had

passed in the H&'se of Commons last night, that
the Catholic Question farms the great obstacle to,
the jun:.tion. of the MaTquis WELLS LEY and Mr,
CAVNING to the present Ministry. His Lordship
and Mr. CANI3ING also differ upon this point from
the Ooposition ; some of whom recommend in ,
bsol tate unonnditional sut'render to the demands
of he C while some of them talk of con •
ditions which they have never ventured to specify,
and of securities which they have never attempted
to define. 'Under these oircum,tances, it appears,
that if the present Ministers ate removed from office,
the Catholic Question will.be brought forward by
their successors as a -Cabinet measure, and that a
compliance with the claims of the Catholics, eithei
more or less prompt,,-either with or without con-
ditions, Will be the result.

It is most important that. the Protestant subjeas
of this Empire should be fully informed upon this
subjea ; 'because, if, upon a full view of the ques-
tion, they are of opinion that the claims of the Ca-
tholics should be conceded, it is fit. that they should
express their approbation, of a Ministry that will
stand pledged to the accomplishment of that objea ;
if, on tic other hand, they look upon the pro-
(Tick' change as big with danger to the religious
e•A`sHishtnents of the Empire, and as subversive
elf the. Constitution, as established at the Revolu-
tln, it is hi:hly Important that their sentiments
411.wid be mid:: known to their Representatives.
We ire far train wishi:.g to excite any religious mil-
rtio,ilie; 5 we are only anxious that, if th6.Question
is again to he brought forward, Parliament should
to the discassion with the advantage of
knowing the opinions and. feelings of all classes and
denomit.ations of the subjeas of, this Empire, upon
this most interesting and important point.

ninsula.

It is ql!ci th,it in - conseprenee of some C(4res-
pondence which has been discnvered, LucteNßun-
NA7.Atrrft C:111 tin longer be suffered- to remain In

tills country.

Accen”ts have Teen received that BUONAPALTE
ha 4 issued a Decree, bearing date. so back
IEI t, repealing the Berlin and Mi.
ian Decrees. If tljese Decrees are really and In
etTea repealed, Our Orders in- Conncil will of course
be rescinded.

the honour of .a share in his Royal IlighnesS's
Councils, 'I must consider the determination 'to
lay this interesting question, until Europe shall
have assumed a new aspett, as a virtual, negative
upon the substance of the claiM ; and I tel this
point with a greater degree Of pain, because I am
convinced that the continuance of -Ireland in her
present condition must potraa, if not perpetuate,
• the present unhappy condition of Europe. •
But, until these preliminaries shall have been es-
tablished, you declare, that it wifPbe your duty to
resist Parliamentary Inquiry, which, 'in your judg-
ment, could be preduc!ive of no• other effect, than
to alarm the " Psotestants, and to delude she Ro-
-man Catholics." At the same time, you effsr no
hope, that she means of relief will be opened by any
other authority.
I cannot understand through wharchannel of rea-
son, or passion,Alie Pro,estants should be alarmed,
or the Catholics deluded, hysa full and fair conside'r-,
ation of the state of the laws atfeeting the hoer
body. Indeed, I cannot conceive any proceeding
so likely to remove al.trin, and prevent delusion, as
that which appears to you likely to create both.
On the other hand, I apprehend much more
danger, both of alarm and of delusion, from any
system of measures to be
which
on the general
and indistinct terms, in you ,state, that,
circumstances may ariseoin which some alteration
in the laws would be aavisable.",
You refer to considerations of a " VERY HIGH Ibl-
ronTANcE," which, usuila very late period of time,
!tare precluded the Execniive Government and Par-
liament frnm entertaining this measure ; and yell.
suggest, that in the opinion of some persons, these
considerations have not lost their w;tiglit: -
I presume, that you refer to the known senti-
ments-of the most exalted and venerauie authority
in these realm, on the claimi of his Majesty's Ro-
man Catholic subjetts,
As your letter seems to bear some reference to
the course of my condua in Parliament, and in his
Majesty's Councils on this subjeti, I avail myself of
this opportunity to explain the motives, both of my
former silence, and of the recent declaration of my
sender-sears.
At; the remote period of theyear t 797, upon. the
eve of my departure for India, I stated to the late
Mr. Pitt my solicitude, that he should dire& his
attention to the settlement of Ireland ; and I ex-
pressed to him my . conVitc,lion, that Ireland could
neither be happily settled, nertitmly united to Great.
Britain, without a concurrent settlement of - the
claims of his Majesty's Roman Catholic 'subias.
The opinions which I declared to Mr. Put; at that
time, tespettieg the 'substance of those claims; were
precisely similar to those which I have stated in the
House of Lords during the present Session of Pasha-
ment.
Ills not nece,ssary to enter upon any teview of
the transaaions whith passed during my absence in
India, with relation to Leland, pr to the chilms of
the Roman Catholics.
I arrived from India in the-month of January,
1806, and alter one short interview , with Mr. Pitt,
I assisted in performing the last sad office of follow-
ing his setuains to-the grave.
Yort are aware, th)at 'long before that period of
time, " high considerations- to which you refer,
had been fixed in full foice.; that no attempt to
change those sentiments could have been made with
any prospea of success; and that the result, even
it a successful proceeding in Parliament, would have
tended only to produce the most dreadful extrerhity
of confusion.
Yon must remember, that I have always lament-
ed (as serious national calamities, menacing the
Constitution of the Monarchy) the reference, which
has necessarily bepri made to the existence_ of those
personal sentiments, and the causes which have oc-
casioned that necessity.
With the warmest,sentiments of pers ss.al vene-
ration, attachment, and gratitude, my opinion has
always been, that the duty..of loyalty and affection
towards a British Sovereign does not consist in sub-
Missive obedience, even to the 'honest prejudices or
errors of the Royal but rather in respectful
endeavours to yemove those prejudices and errors,
by free advice in Council, and by temperate reinon-
strance in 'Parliament.'
But the time for such endeavours had passed ; and
I submitted reluctantly, not to my sense of the ge-
nuine duty of a faithful Counsellor towards. his
Sovereign, but to the painful, and, by, me, irreversi-
ble necessity of the case.
This is a subject Of the utmost, of the most pe-
rilous delicacy :-4our letter has opened it :--I will
pursne it no bather than to assure you,, that when,
on-the 3.lst of January, I declared, in the House
of Lords, my sentiments respecting the Roman
Catholic Claims, the necessity which had occasion-
ed my silence appeared to ale to have entirely
ceased.
The secood point of your explanatory letter re-
fers, to' the management of ' the war an the Pe-

Your suggestions are necessarily indistinct, with
regard to ihe additional means (which have occur-
red since
,nly resignation) of extending our militaty
efforts in that quarter : I think I can collect even
from your hints, that although those means are ex!.
tranetus, the probability of their exHstence might
have been foreseen, as the natural result of insttuc-
tions which woe in progress of execution previous-
ly to my resignation:
But my objection to the system pursued in the
Peninsula, at the tiros of my resignation, was ap-
plied to the whole' frame and fabric of our perma-
nent arrangements, both in ,Portugal and Spain,-
which, in my jadgment, must be corrected and ex-
tended, not only with a view to the advantageous
use of such means as Ne now possess in the Penin-
sula, but vet) of stich adventitious and extrtmt-ons
means as events in oilier quarters may place at our
dispos,l: Beleve we, my dear Lord, always.your's,
most sincerely;

led) WELLESLEY
The Earl of Liverpool,

The day before Boonaparie left PatiS, he publish-
ed another decree relative to grainy in which, in the
true spirit of Robespierre's Government', he fixes a
maximum (the sure way to aggravate the scarcity)
in the price of corn, ordering it to be sold at the
fate of 33 francs the becAolitre, or seven bushels
and two-thirds of the old French measure.

LONDON : Printc,l by 1 tiOMAS WOOD, sf N'o. 35, Maiden-lane, Covent-garden; and Published by WI I LIAM ARMIGER SCRIPPS, South Mol
At the SUN OrricE, 'No, 11'2, Strand, where Advertisements, Urciers for the raper, 1 etters tar the Editor, -&c, ,(post-paid,