The Sun.
London, England, 1841-09-22 00:00:00

P. VENING SUN

• Inouse (night, therefore, infer that it would be prorogued
until :._:xt Februarr.—,(Cries of " Order.")
PRIVATE BILLS COMMITTEES. -
I :Vt.. E W.AnT then route to move the following
1 resoluf ions, of which he had given notice
' 1. That it is expedient that Committees on Private
Bills should be approximated, more nearly than they now
are, to judicial tribunals, and exempted, as much as pos-
sible, from all motives of local and personal interest.
And that the responsibility and etliciency of such Com-
mittees would be promoted by diminishing the number
of Members composing them.
"2. That, with a view of attaining these objects, the
munbvr of Members composing Committees on opposed
Privat, Bills be reduced to seven.
" t'L That such seven Members be appointed by the Corn-
' mit tee of Selection, after the second reading of such Bills.
But tht previous to such appointment, the Cof St.,:ection do ascertain from each of such ommittee
sev%•.%
Meall,, es that he is willing to serve, and that he is,
neith..r through his constituents nor himself; personally
intere,•::!d for or against the Bill in question ;
-a • and that,
in e 5.,,• he is unable to serve or is interested as aforesad,
the (',.m , ittee of Selection do appoint some other Mm-
bee ti. ,:erve in place of hire.
" 4. That the Committee of Selection appoint no
Merab e to serve on more than one such Private Bill
Comu.i t tee at a time."

He b. sieved that great ignorance prevailed with re-
gard tai the transacting of businn-s by
Con - • -
on Prl,ate Bills. He believed the Met I' unittr's
ra,ne
Barimet opposite bad had many op ortunitiC°snnuf ing ti':: baneful working of the present s' seoe-'
Privet,- Committees ; and he appealed to -ern
he
tiler ;..form was not to be desired in theirn -
17acttie;.leviyithetohueldsulbtieectai,
chinuy and constriction. In the first place, theseCilinn'lt: mitte,,, were appointed principally from the local eon-
taonotle
altogether
therefore
impartial,it. vP
teresn• d either through themselves or their constituents.
The e;ystem of canvassing that went on during the Nittiiee
of a !ommi tee, was at variance with 'the justeZ
of the case under the consideration of the Com-
:in:ye, and it was ' discreditable to the character
r the House. The Committees of the House
of C emnons were not only partial tribunals,
but. II
their size, inconvenient for accomplishing the
ends justice. They ought to ti purified, r •
and e mu-
nislnd in point of numbus. •-)
remedies
holit
Vi :lured to suggest, were, o the first place, 1: that, Committees should be snore nearly
props:Nu
,assim!)atod to judicial tribunals. Hoy,- was that to Le
effect:.', : By removing as fur as possible all motives
of pe;e:ality. Me, neat desire was to suet ease the re-
sponsil.ility and effidePety gyf Committees. ele body of
thirty-live Members had e tech mere divided res?onsi-
bility ; ban a body consisting only of seven Mowbers.
He pr 4. ,aged, therefore, to inerresse their responsa duty
by red 'Citing the number from thirty-eight to seven. :Ile
Rouen of Lords had reduced their Committees frota an s!-
uiu`:*t !-Viimitednumber to live, and prohibited any Member,
direct ly err indirectly interested, from sitting. In the year
18:38, the Dtthv of Richmond was examined before the:
lloas,, and his elle4e-nee would be found to confirm all that;
he (.7,i E.) had said. iii- the same year the present Speaker-
and t:!,, Hon. Member fel, Lancashire drew up a set of
resolutions on the subject, rehiels, having examined,
found to be essentially the same with those he
now i•roposed. Not only were the suggestions he
had ::„mtle founded on reason, but they came be-
fore :hem sanctioned by the House of Lords, the
-Speaker of the House of Cuimsiens, and the
oh:tit-elan of the Committee of Ways and Means.
How had those rules operated in the House,
? Why, it was admitted that they had done
great esti ; and, with respect to that House, he believed
they had rendered its Committees more effective, •
arei t .sir proceedings much more beneficial. The
Hone ta cable Member concluded by moving the .
resolutions of which he had given notice.
Ti;' resolutions having been read by the Speaker,
Mr. 7•:WART suggested that each resolution should bo
taker: into con :ideration separately.
Mr. ESTCOURT thought that the principle laid
down by the lion. Member -was good, and he sve
not disposed to contravert it, but he thought his
had ellten a wrong mode of carrying it out. Het
would ;lot deny—but that he entertained considerable re-
spect ;w the opinion which he knew prevailed, not only-
tenoree:t many Members of that House, but also very
ex ten vely out of doors—that in the constitution of
Committees on private Bills, the principle of represente-
tirm oeght to have due weight. Committees on private BiN
might :re considered under two aspects; first, as judicial
tram: ells, and, secondly, as inquisitions. They 'had to
inquiet as well as to judge. If their functions had been
purely judicial he would accede at once to the proposition
of the i lon. Gentleman, but where the matters brought be-
fore t hem might possibly lead to extensive inquiry,
it app-ared to him that a larger number of Mem-
bers might to be appointed than if' their functions
were purely judicial, more particularly when, in
the rienit of that inquire, the constituents of the Members
might ae interested. So long as the Committees had
been ,-,mstituted, as formerly, of a very large number of
Mem')..rs, belonging not only to the county inte-
rested, but to the neighbouring counties ; or so
long is the Speaker's list had been very large,
he would adn:it that considerable inconvenience arose
from the canvassing of agents, but both those evils had
been renedied during; the two last Sessions of Parliament.
He co.ifessed he thought there was very great weight in
the areuments of those Honourable Members who de-
sired to give that tribunal a representative character.
As f..c, however, as he had been enabled to form an
opiniee, the amendments of last Session had given.
getter satisfaction. If, after a fair eeperiment, which
could :tot be afforded in a single Session, :he objections
erg el by the Hon. Member should be found to
have gained ground, lie , would then be prepared
to ac,,de to his propositions; but as no discontent ap-
peare,l as yet to exist, he thought that wits not a fit time
fur ; Honourable Member to press his resolutions.
If tile same system was preserved in the present as ill
the 1:14 Session of Parliament, and if Hon. Member;
woul,t bind themselves to carry the arrangements jetty
effect.- he had no doubt that there would be a most
story result--that no party would be disappointed,
and au. unnecessary expense incurred. Believing the
moti :t was unnecessary and uncalled for, he should
take he liberty of moving the previous question.
Mr. W. FERRAND would think it his duty to support
the e solutions of the Hon. Gentleman opposite.
Sir G. CLERK, though admitting there was some
weiglit in the arguments used on the other side, would,
howe er, suggest to the lion. Gentleman the propriety
of At ithdrawing the resolutions he had proposed, as
any alterations in rules which had hitherto worked iveil,
worth! in all probability, in the present state of the House,
when there were so many new Members in it, be
attended with considerable inconvenience.

M. EWART, in reply, said, that if these propositions
had.been founded only on his own opinions he sh.-uld
at ()two assent to the recommendation of the Hon. i'd.cm-
ben 11.• Oxford, but as he found they were approved of
by many gentleman of greatexperience he felt he should
not ii doing his duty if he did not divide the House.
He should therefore do so.

Lord J. RUSSELL could not go
.to the extent of the
Hon. Gentleman, though lie considered it would be well
to ex:Aude as much as possible all personal and local
interest. He did not think it quite right that the represen-
tatives of the people should be altogether excluded from
atteteling to the interests of their constituents' private
business, though he thought it would be well ifsome scheine
could be devised giving a more judicial character to the
Private Committees. He could not, as at present ad-
vised, go the length to which some persons did,
that the representatives should be altogether excluded,
for that, in fact, would be destroying, to a certain extent,
the representative character of the House. They had
certainly the best means of giving information on
the various subjects which came before them to the Com-
mittee, and all lie wished was thal it sf.ould have more
of il.otlicial character than the present mode. He could
only ,;ay, that in voting for the previous question, he did
not tetally differ from the Hon. Gentleman, and he hoped
to see still further improvements.
I\i r. AGLIONBY begged leave to say a few words on
the subject. He was
glad the subject had been
brought forward, for the House wouldsee th c
exp;!diency of altering the present system. Tho
repr,sented had a right to the service of the' he:
prce;entative to attend the Committee and advocate th
interests of his constituents, but he had no right to trans.
form himself into a Judge.
driven
S. R. PEEL was sorry that they should be
.d bn
to n division. He thought a fair, trial shoo°, b
jue.
give o to the existing system; yet he had no ailed Lion that the attention of the country should he
public
to the present mode of conducting the
abuses
business, whereby they would see the 41•_eling
exLqing in the manner of conducting it. I\, °I.
c than to see'
Una more to lower the dignity of thell°f,riyato Bills.
could/
the deeisions that had been come tornrij.ae_entary in;
The :-e was a strong impression that
to Ir lal
insure SUCceSS;
Iluenee was the only thing necessary
give a fair triul to
yetis; trusted it would be better to
did not think it would be
mal:o a hasty alteration. Heef
the 1 House on the bubj ect. •
the :-ystem at present in force, a
I itdviseable to take the sensepi t
to the services of their
1 The constituency had a rie ,'ia ~
d therefore, a duty. to
Rell-escntatives, and they I d not call on them to
private Committees.
I respect to railroads. In
lit, !kul some experience
tai
tives of six several counties
sue:l cases the represcn
proposition of the Honourable
• the
per:, yin in attending to
and towns would,
Aee:ber, have a right
You could not exactly limit the
by
to attend to advocate the interests
of t?leir con3tittientsb.e
1 ttlillei:,(ilvuoruii.i: which they
time
t,____. should address the Committee.
111 e. AGLION . _
E _....if they appeared in the character of
‘s:'. 13- PE- L•
inevitable consequence would be that
, adv,,eates,
would be unnecessarily con-
ithhee such aYAnlhboeurr. of persons representing
lo,e! interests, that .
sehn , ,
d and the Committee would soon be reduced to a
,' ; • quorum, even if you could get a quorum at all.
tie,l.a.riog
i '. tired elso, that if local Members were disqualified from
6- i,,.:1t. in Committee, the effect would be to give rise' to
th,,Aebates in the House which so frequently
occurred,
an', which 1 v were.usually listened to with so much ina-
pa: once.
M-,.. EWART would have no objection that the whole
of 1:3 resolutions should be referred to the Committee on
Prl.,lte I3usiness. That would be a fair mode of com-
yreAse, and he trusted it would be acceded to by the
Ei .!kt lion. Baronet.—(Cries of " No, no.")
;•ir R. PEEL thought it was highly necessary that
the present system should have a fair trial, which had
Le.. yet been had.
2'!r. EWART was perfectly aware that the majority
me. tbe against him. Under such circumstances, he
wtedd, therefore, not waste the time of the House by
for, ing a division ; but he would continue to press them
on the attention of the House so long as he had the ho-
.
nctfr of a seat.
Theamendment and motion were then, by leave, wit'h-
drsr.m. .

Air.. RENNIE then rose to move " That an humble
A.L:rees be presented to her 31uje;ty, thit the will be
graciously pleased to direct her CommLsiTners of Land
Revenues to take measures for rendering safer the re-