The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-08 00:00:00

COPY OF LETTER IROM THE MARQUIS OF NORMANBY

TO SIR PETER LAURIE.

Whitehall, Jan. 18, 1841.

Sir,—l should not have considered it necessary to
protract the correspondence on the subject of I3,!thlem
Hospital, merely for the purpose of stating that I con-
ceive every part of your letter of the 16:hi instant tc
confirm my opinion of the impropriety of the publication
of the physicians' report in its present shapa, and at
this period of the proceedings ; but there is one sentence
of your letter which proceeds upon so complete a mis-
apprehension of the nature of the inquiry, and the re-
halve position of the parties, that I cannot pass it by
witheut ❑otice.

You state that, " the Committee being of opinion
that the Report of physicians, founded as it is upon a
cireful and unprejudiced inquiry into the whole circum-
stances, should be sent to the Governors without com-
ment or observation, is the only reaso❑ why your Lord-
ship's letter was not also circulated." . _ .

Tue object of the inquiry was to satisfy, not the Go-
vernors merely, but myself, who am officially respon-
sible for the treatment of the lunatics in the criminal
wine.', to which alone the inquiry was confined.
lappointed two gentlemen to collect evidence, and
report it for my information and judgment upon it. After
studying carefully the evidence so collected, I thought it
necessary to accompany their Report with some additional
observations, not only on the origin of the complaint, on
which some stronger language had been used by the Go-
vernors in their letter to me than I thought was borne
out by the course of the examination ; but also on the
conduct of some of the servants, and the condition of
the patients. It is true that the effect of those obser-
vations was to qualify, in some details of management,
the approhatioa 1 should otherwise have been supposed
completely to share. I regret that I felt it necessary to
express those opinions ; hut having done so, their effect
will not be altered by any apparent attempt at their
suppression. I am sure that the Governors would much
regret such an appearance, yet nothing could be more
calculate] to produce that effect than the id-judged pro-
ceedings of the Committee, of which so strange an ex-
planation is given in your letter ; as if my communica-
tion to you was the chance comment of an iudifferent
person, instead of the opinion of one whose imperative
duty it is to watch over and correct any abuses in the
treatment of criminal lunatics.
Gonceiving such to be the position in which I stand
on this subject, 1 expect, of course, that my views will
meet with proper attention, and therefore desire you
will communicate the whole of this correspondence to
the general meeting of Governors.—l am, Sir, your
most obedient bumble servant, NORMANBY.
Sir P. Laurie, &c., 7, Park-square.

COPY OF LETTER FROM SIR P. LAURIE TO THE MARQUIS

OF /iOII3.ItNII.
7, Park-square, Jan. 18, 1811.

My Lord,—l have the honour to acknowledge your
letter of this date, in which you state that there is one
sentence in my last letter which proceeds upon a corn-
plez.e misapprehension of the nature of this inquiry, and
that the object of it was to satisfy not merely the Go-
vernors of Bethlem Hospital but your Lordship.
Your Lordship will at once perceive th it this misap-
prehension does not originate with me, as your Lord-
ship will recollect that the inquiry was not only insti-
tuted on the suggestion and at the express desire of the
Governors, but that in the letter of the Hon. Fox
Maule, of the 18th of November, the following reason
is given by your Lordship for acceding to our wish :
" Lord Normanby desires me to inform you, that in
order to satisfy the Committee, and to assure the public,
that the unhappy individuals in the criminal wing are
properly treated, his Lordship will send two eminent
physicians to investigate the charge made by Mr. Ser-
geant Adams that the patient, John Darby Shelley, had
been subjected to harsh and improper treatment."
I cannot doubt that your Lordship will share in the
satisfaction with which " the Committee and the public"
have received the very able report of the two eminent
physicians appointed by your Lordship to investigate
this charge, which justifies that confidence so long re-
posed in us by her Majesty's Government.
Nothing can be farther from the intention or the wish
of the Governors of Bethlem Hospital than to suppress
the observations of your Lordship, which" laid before
the Committee, and were entered on the journals, as
is the case with every communication addressed to me
as President ; and those, together with this corres-
pondence, will, as of course, be submitted to the consi-
deration of the General Court on the 25th inst.
I have the honour to be, my Lord, your Lordship's
most obedient servant,
P. LAURIE, President.
The Most Hon. the Marquis of Normanby, &c.

COPY OF A LETTER FROM LORD NORMANBY TO

SIR P. LAURIE.

'Whitehall, Jan. 20, 1811.

Sir,--I have to acknowledge the receipt, this morn-
ing, of your letter of the 18th inst. lamat a loss to
conceive with what view you quote the extract from
the letter of Mr. Fox Manic of the 18th November,
because, far from confirming the misapprehension under
which you seem still to labour, it shows, as I have al-
ready felt, that the inquiry originated in a laudable de-
sire, on the part of the Governors, to refer the case for
my decision, upon information to be collected and re-
ported to me ; as the Governors naturally felt that no-
thing could so much tend to reassure the public in re-
gard to the treatment of the criminal lunatics as the
opinion of the person responsible to the country for
that treatment. The institution of the inquiry was sit-
tisfatetory to the Governors, because they looked to its re-
sult being satisfactory to me. The opinion I had formed
I tot warded to you on the 4th inst., with the report
made to me, and the evidence on which it was founded ;
and this letter of mine the Committee thought it proper
to withhold for the time, upon the strange ground,
as 'stated by you, that it consisted of comments
or .ebservations, of which it was better that the Go-
vernors should at present remain in ignorance. It was
not to be expected that the existence of such a docu-
ment could remain unknonn ; and therefore it is not
ma tter of surprise, if the general belief is that, if that
opi pion had been altogether satisfactory to the Com-
; mittee, it would now have been circulated, and con-
sequi eitly published, with the report which accom-
panied it. The result of this injudicious course on the
part of the Committee has, therefore, been, that, with
the appearance of attempt at concealment, they have
created an impression that my opinion was more gene-
rally unfavourable than it really was ; nor, unless
then e errors are corrected at the general meeting of the
Governors, will it be held that the subsequent proceed-
ings have been conducted in the spirit of the letter of
tho Treasurer, of the Ist of December, quoted in the
cons se of the investigation, which gave the assurance
that no impediment should be thrown in the way of the
most searching inquiry I might think proper to insti-
tute —I am, Sir, your most obedient and humble
servant, NORMANBY.
Sir Peter Laurie, &c., 7, Park-square.

CC,PY OF LETTER FROM SIR F. LAURIE TO TH
MiIRQUIS OF NORMANDY.
7, Park-square, Jan. 20, 1841.
lily Lord,—l have the honour to acknowledge your
lett.,:r of this date, which I shall not fail to lay before
the Governors of Bethlem Hospital on the 25th inst.
.11. s the General Court cannot but partake of your
Lur (ship's anxiety for the removal of any " impression
that your opinion was more generally unfavourable
th:!c, it really was," I have no doubt that they will have
gr( at pleasure in meeting your views by printing your
La lship's observations with this correspondence, for
the _information of the Governors at large.
1: have the honour to be, my Lord, your Lordship's
merit obedient servant, P. LAURIE, President.
'Me Most Hon. the Marquis of Normanby, &c.

The officers and men of her Majesty's ship 2Etna,
at Liverpool, receiving ship, have subscribed two as' pay
for the relief of the widows and orphans of the d
latye brig

Fairy.

James William Gilbart, Esq., always thought it a fa-
vourable circumstance in the progress of a bank, when
the annual report of its proceedings furnished but scanty
materials for making a speech. But while the individual
circumstances of this bank call for no particular observa-
tion, the class of banks to which it belongs are at the pre-
sent moment the subject of peculiar interest. There were
two points connected with these banks that would probably
soon occupy the attention of the Legislature. The first
was, the general amendment of the law of partnership, so
far as regards banking companies ; and the second was,
the establishment of a sole bank of issue throughout the
country. Year after year, for several years past, the
Committee of Deputies appointed by the Joint-Stock
Banks had memorialized her Alaj.sty's Government with
the view of obtaining a general amendment of the law,
but hitherto without success. All they had been able to
ohtain was an Act now and then to remedy some specific
defect, after some atrocious case of dishonesty had cc-

eurred, and not only so, but these Acts were always in the
first instance passed for only a limited time—usually about

two years. At first it was discovered that if a clergyman were
a shareholler in a Joint-stock Bank, it was placed beyond
the pale of the law ; it could neither sue its debtors nor be
sued by its creditors. Then it was found that a Joint-stock
Bank could not sue its own shareholders for a debt, and after.

wards that a shareholder might rob the bank with impu-
nity, as the bank could not prosecute a shareholder crimi-
nally. The Act which remedied the last two defects ex-
pires next year. But there are many other defects in the
law that required to be redressed. The legal proceedings
that were taking place term after term with regard to the
Imperial Bank of England and the Agricultural and Com-
mercial Bank of Ireland, furnish abundant evidence of the

present defective state of the law. Besides, those Joint-
stock Banks that are located in London and within 65

miles thereof, are subject to peculiar disabilities. No
Joint-stock Bank in London can, as such, sue any of its
debtors. The number of its partners is a practical ob.
stAcle. Hence, when a person opens an account he signs
a contract, giving to certain persons therein named the
power of suing him for any monies he may hereafter owe to
the bank. There is another defect in the law—Joint-stock

Banks in London, and within sixty-five miles, cannot ac-
cept bills drawn at less than six months after date. This,
too, is deemed a privilege of the Bank of England. What
is granted to other parties as a matter of right, is viewed,
with regard to Joint-stock Banks, as a matter of privilege.
The power to sue their debtors, or to accept bills for less
than six months, is, with regard to banking partnerships
consisting of not snore than six persons, not a privilege
but a right—but with regard to Joint-stock Banks, these
are not rights but privileges. The next topic that would en-
gage the attention of Parliament would be the establishment
of one bank of issue. He had often been asked whether
he theught that one bank of issue would bs established;
be had always answered " No I" for he thought the scheme
was so visionary in theory, and would be so injurious in
operation, that no body of practical statesmen would ever
be found to bring forward such a measure. The Bank of
England, judging from her anxiety to form agreements
with other hanks, would like to have all the circulation of
the country, and some distinguished political economists
were in favour of such a measure. The political econo-
mists contend that the amount of the circulation ought to
fluctuate according to the importation and exportation of
bullion ; and that this could only be effected by the esta-
blishment of one bank of issue. These principles bad not
been acknowledged by the Bank of England, nor has site
ever conducted either her London or her country circu-
lation upon these principles. Thus the sole principle on
which it can rest is disputed, and its practical effects were
also disputed. lie was no politician, and he thought that
no banker ought to be a politician. He eau sidered that
politics, like banking, was a science in itself, and he
wag willing to leave it in the hands of those who
made it their study ; and he had a strong im-
pression that the government of a state very much re-
sembled the government of a bank in this respect—that it
was much easier to write a pamphlet, a review, or a leading
article upon the subject, than actually to exercise the
functions of government. There is, however, one snb-
ject which almost every man understands better than
it is understood by a Prime Minister—that one subject
is his own profession ; and they, as practical bankers nho
understood perfectly their own profession, and daily wit-
nessed the effects of banking operations in the respective
localities in which they were placed, did not think that
they were guilty of any disrespect towards the rulers of
the land, or of any overweening conceit of themselves,
in believing that their own judgment as to the effects that
would he produced by one bank of issue, was more
likely to be correct than that of any statesman or phi.
losopher who has not had equal means of information. If
such a measure were carried at all, it must be carried by the
' Government or by the Opposition, or by both united. With
regard to the Government, we must recollect that it is com-
posed of practical statesmen who would look to the practical
effects of the establishment of one bank of issue, and would
not introduce it merely for the purpose of testing the truth of
philosophical theory. The subject would involve questions
of finance, of taxation, of national prosperity, of political
power, and of party influence. The Chancellor of the
Exchequer would naturally inquire whence he was to bor-
row money upon his deficiency bills? Whether he was to
depend upon the caprice of the Stock Exchange, or whe-
ther he should increase the taxation of the country, in order
to render himself independent of all such assistance ? lie
might also ask, whether to annoy and cripple the banking
interest throughout the country was the best means of ob-
taining any future loan, or of being supported in his finan-
cial operations ? Might not the Government, too, have some
doubts whether the establishment of a monopoly of the cur-
rency was a measure exactly consistent with their principle as
Liberals, and with the doctrines of free trade, which on other
occasions they had so strongly advocated ? There might be
some difficulty in deciding what kind of bank of issue should
be trusted, far the advocates of one Bank were divided into
three parties ' - one party wished the Bank of England to be
the one Bank, another wished for a Government Bank, and
a third wished it to be entrusted to Parliamentary Commis-
sioners independent of the Government. But, suppose
all these difficulties overcome, and the measure finally
arranged, could it certainly be carried through Parlia-
ment ? If introduced as a Government measure, might it
not be opposed by the Conservatives ; and could the Mi-
nistry rely upon the support even of their own adherents?
All these considerations would, he apprehended, be
maturely weighed by the Government before they would
commit themselves to this measure, and he thought they
would never bring it forward, unless they could insure the
co-operation of the Conservatives. Bat were the Conser-
vatisee as a party likely to introduce or to support this
measure ? The principles of all bankers, with respect to
those principles that form the foundation of civil society, are
essentially Conservative. From motives of self-interest,
bankers must be friendly to the security of pr ivate property,the
legitimate influence of wealth, the impartial administration
of justice and inviolability of the national faith, and the
supremacy of the law. Bankers must be opposed to ail
popular commotion, to all appeals to physical force, for in
those seasons they would be the chief sufferers. Again,
it is universally asserted that the main strength of the
Conservative party lies among the agriculturists. Now
nearly all the notes of the private and Joint stock Banks
circulate in the agricultural districts. If these notes were
abolished, the bankers must call in the loans they bad
granted to the farmers and others, and hence great dis-
tress. Now, is it likely that the Conservative party would
content to a measure that should spread distress through-
out those districts in which lies their chief support, and
thus alienate the minds of their own adherents? The De-
mocratical party in America are opposed to all banking in-
stitutions, upon the ground that they lead to the formation
of a moneyed aristocracy. Upon the same ground the Con-
servatives ought to support them. For in times of popular
tumult the aristocracy of money will join the aristocracy of
rank in resistance to the movement party. From all these
considerations he was led to believe that the Conservatives
would not introduce a measure for the establishment of one
bank of issue. But notwithstanding all this
probable rea-
soiling, it must be admitted to be a possible case, that the
the
leaders of both parti6s might join in in
tr
iodto be
establishment of one bank of issue. What s ' done
then? This certainly alters the case iri one yery im-
portant respect. It the Liberal party introduced. thethe ques-
tion,
tiou, the Conservatives might oppose them, if
Con-
servatives introduced the question, they mightties be
tobpuismose3d.
by the Liberals ; and should the twol
posed, the banking interest is amply tawrerful to give the
preponderance to that party which might espouse their
cause. But should the leaders of both parties concur in the
measure, it would be no longer a party question. Now the
allegiance of a Member of Parliament to
that
tohis party is confined
to party questions. Upon the suppositionthe establish-
ment of one bank were not a party uestion, the leaders of
the two parties could not command the votes of their respec.
tive adherents. Besides, as we are dealing in suppositions, we
must not only suppose that the leaders of both parties shall
endeavour to establish one bank of issue, from a sincere
conviction that such a measure would be conducive to the
good of Abe country. We must also suppose that the
banking interest, from an equally sincere convict:on that
such a measure would be injurious to the country, would
be equally vigorous in opposing it. We will suppose that
in every place in which there is a batik or a branch bank,
a public meeting shall be held to pass resolutions, and pre-
pare petitions to Parliament, on behalf of the local circu-
lation ; that a deputation from the bankers shall wait upon

every Member of Parliament, accompanied by some of
the most influential supporters of each, and request their
support to these petitions; that the Scotch and Irish banks
shall use their influence with their Scotch and Irish Mem-
bers to induce them to support the system under which
Scotland has so long prospered, and which is beginning to
produce its natural effects in the increase of the agriculture
and trade of Ireland; and that all these measures are pur-
sued with a degree of organization, zeal, and perseverance,
which shall prove that the parties are in earnest. What
would probably be the results ? Would not the measure be
withdrawn, or, if pressed to a division, would not the leaders
of the two parties he left in a minority? Under such cir-
cumstances, it will naturally be asked, what ought the Joint-
stock Banks to do ? At present they should do nothing, but
leave their cause in the hands of the London Committee
of Deputies. That Committee will no doubt immediately
put themselves in communication with the Chancellor of
the Exchequer upon the subject of a general amendment
of the law of partnership, as far as regards Banking Com-
panies. With regard to the establishment of one hank of
issue, they are amply provided with witnesses ready to be
hzemined by the Parliamentary Committee upon banks of
issue as soon as appointed. These witnesses are practical
bankers, from different parts of the country, and can be
produced to any number that the Parliamentary Com-
mittee arc willing to receive. Is his opinion, the banks
of issue should not make any public dereenstration until
they were attacked. As soon as any Parlierneetary Com-
mittee should recommend the eata'ulisbment of one
bank of issue, cr should any member of Parliament give
notice of such a motion, then would be the time of
action. In the mean time they should keep their powder
dry ; and he thought they would do well to pay at-
tention to the following points the first place they
ought to be united among themselves. He trusted that
these Joint-stock banks which did not issue notes would
make common cause with those that did. By the esta-
blishment of one bank of issue these banks would lose the
benefit of their three per cent. agreements. The Bank of
England, too, in order to administer the circulation, would
have to establish other branches, at all of which she would
compete with the existing banks in every department of
their business But were the sole bank a Government
bank, the thee per cent, agreements would still be lost,
and the present branches of the Bank of England, de-
prived of their issue, could only be rendered profi able by
competing with the other banks Hs batiks of deposit and dis-
count. Secondly. They should Le on the most friendly terms
with the country bankers. The Bank of England had op-
posed them in Parliament, pursued them throegli the courts
of law, and annoyed them by her business regulations. The
London bankers had excluded them from the clearing house.
The country bankers as a body had never adopted any active
hostilities against the Joint stock Banks. He really thought
that in the districts beyond sixty-five miles from London,
the Joint-Stock Banks were numerous enough. Ho
would rather ace the joint-stock interests extending by
means of the existing banks acquiring more capital
and increased strength, rather than by the formation
of new establishments. Upon the present question the
private and Joint-Stock Banks had a community' of
interest, and it would be folly for them to contend about
their minor differences, while a power was hovering over
them, watching an opportunity to destroy them both.
Th'rdiy. They ought to place themselves is a position of
high financial independence. Where it was necessary, the
banks should call up more capital, and in all cases they
should avoid locking up their funds in mortgages, dead
loans, or overdrawn accounts; and they should not render
themselves dependent on the London Money Market for
the re-discount of their bills. In banking contests as well as
in other contests money forms the sinews of war. Besides, it
should be recollected that if they are detested they a ill want
their funds to pay off their notes. Fourthly. They should
avail themselves of that powerful instrument the public presa.
They should distribute in their respective localities those
pamphlets that might be published on the subject, and
especially the excellent work of Mr. Bailey. They should
patronize those newspapers that ads ocated their cause,
and endeavour to procure their admission into clubs, or
reading-rooms, or Chambers of Commerce of which they
might be members. Most Join;-stock Banks st)end a
greal deal of money in advertising their meetings and divi-
dends, and preference should be given in such cases to
those papers that are friendly to the country banks.
Lastly. We should never forget that the battle of the
banks must be fought in the House of Commons, and they
should look forward to a general election as the season for
exertion. Let no shareholder in a Joint-stock Bank
promise his vote until he has ascertained the sentiments of
the candidate upon the subject. But it was not at all
necessary that he should act inconsistently with his own
political predilections. If a Conservative candidate asked
the vote of a shareholder in a Joint-stock Bank who was
friendly to Conservative principles, he should reply,
.• Yes ; I will give you my vote if you will declare from
the hustings that you will oppose the establishment of one
bank of luaus : if you will not do this, I will not promise
you my support." If a Liberal candidate applied to a Li..
beral shareholder, lie should receive the same reply ; and
if by this means such a declaration should be made by 100
Members of Parliament, both the possessors and the expect-
ants of office would soon become wonderfully enlightened
upon the subject. The shareholders, too, who might be
on Election Committees, should encourage the candi-
dates to make declarations of this sort. They ought also
to endeavour to persuade as many of their Directors as
were qualified to become candidates. There were at pre-
sent 25 Members of Parliament who were Directors of Joint-
stock Banks. Of these, 10 were, Conservative, and 15
were Liberals. These numbers ought to be considerably
increased, and lie trusted they would be, on both sides of
the House, after the next general election. While, how-
ever, he would thus be prepared for war, be was sin-
cerely anxious for peace. He trusted they should not be
drawn from their peaceful occupations to engage in public
strife. He was desirous ot' a banking millenium, in which
all the banking institutions of the country should be at
peace with each other, and in which even the lion of the
Bank of England should lie down with the lamb of the
Joint-stock banking.