The Sun.
London, England, 1841-04-23 00:00:00

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL gave notice that to-
mirrow he should move that after Tuesday, the Ist of
June, Orders of the Day do take precedence of notices
of motion on Thursdays.

Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET begged to ask
when the Ordnance Survey would come on?

Sir IIUSSEY VIVIAN proposed to bring it on
.oniorrow evening.

NEW SOUTH WALES.

Mr. GItOTE then rose to bring forward the reso-
tutions of which he bad given notice, on the subject of
the colony of New South Waler. The subject was
'he same on which he had had the honour to address the

House on the 25th of la-t month, and it would be
in the recollection of Hon. Gentlemen that the sitting of
the House on that evening had been brought to an
unexpected termination before he had had an oppor-
tunity of bringing to a close the statements he
had to make respecting the Colony. He should, there-
fore, entreat the House to bear with him while he
related the main features of the case. The resolutions
he was about to propose were the same as he had
then brought forward, and there was merely a slight
'altertvion in the last to get rid of an objection in point
of form. It appeared that for the last fey years,
since 1835, a heavy charge had been imposed upon the
Colony of New South Wales, namely, the entire and
undivided charge of the gaols and police of the settle-
ment. Up to that time the revenue had been fully
adequate to meet the demands of the Colony, but
since then the ordinary revenue had been considerably
diminished, insomuch that recourse had been had to
trespassing on the land and emigration fund, which had
been already pledged and consecrated to other pur.

EVENING EDITION•

poses. The Colonists thought that a case of extol
hardness and iejustice. It should he remember'
that this was originally a penal colony, and that it still
retained marks of its origin, although it was.daily e‘•
stinting a more colonial chareetvr. Ile knee' is Ws
common to say, that although there was a great nuelbcr
to
of convicts, a large portion of them were assigned
private masters, and it was assumed that
benefit of these assignments wss on the side'd the
Colony ; but instead of this being the case, sue:
of from three to four Imedreel thousand po-I°h:
year accrued to this country front these assigeroenj.
Mr. Sl,eretary Rice, in 1835. had estimatel th
pense of the colony at 25,0001., but it now amounted
to more than four times that sum--it was
above 100,000/. Was not that fast cane
whole
to call upon the House to reconsider the
subject. Had the Government been aware
of the.
state of the gaols at that period, they would have liesitatnoi
before they altogether liberated the Imperial trr asury,fiet
threw the Colony upon its own resources. That the e01°11)(1.
had increased in wealth and populat'on, since that lien°
was no valid reason for imposing upon it such he"v/
charges.. When it was recollected that one-third of thei
populatem had been sent out for punishment, it w°e
not be thought fair that, the Colony should bear the
th.e. *hole
whole expense of the gaols and police e,tablishnieetic,,
If they
,ba carried on a system which was grallti is
diminishing the resources of that country, the Celon Ito
had cause of great and aggravated complaint, ati:°
regretted to say that suit had been the ease. Nole'it',
Lls
a sum of 200,0001. had been abstracted from the leaf°
to make good that deficiency in the revenue, 04, s
fee
that sum not less than 11,000 free emigrants courSi
conveyed to the Colony. Now, when they looked at ths;
number in reference to the existing population to Nei
South Wale, they would see that it was a cumber ec
culated to effect the mast important improveraerit'so
their social and economic condition. The great v°"„
of the emigration fund was that it afforeed labourin;
men, whose condition in the country were extremelyi°se
the means of proce !ding to another portir n °'
British dominions where the supply of capital was 113",-0
than in proportion to the supply of labour, and victii,
the remuneration of every labouring man of ordie°l sise
gencc was ample and certain. It was unfortunately Thi
who were least able to meet the expense of
who were most required in that colony, and for aired.
a fund of that sort was most particularly tea - sae
It Hon. Gentlemen would take the trouble to el.Bll/0-0
the documents connected with the state of New Zia
Wales, they would find that the colonies were et`li
greatly from the want of labour. The lionOo
see
Gentleman then referred to a debate which tools? 1,/
in the Legislative Council of New South
std
act
in October last, in which resolutions were pasfed!:t_s."!"-,,st
the deficiency of labour and the injurious;
which it had upon the interests of the CewsB..o.
The value of colonial lands depended 0111101-t-he
tirely upon the application of the proceeds Of
ts,
sales. They were of no value in the absence of laboure to
By strictly confining the net proceeds of waste landeosb
emigration,
emigration purposes, a new property was created
otherwise would have had no existence. The e°°lle, d
t
fund which had been derived from the sale of lands 'l3lO
arisen from a general persuasion in the colony 6'4 he
proceeds of these land sales would be held sacred t° "re,
purposes of emigration. The Hon. Gentleman t9l'-so-
ferred to documents which had bean issued by Lord s'eA7
ick in 1831, and by Lord Glenelg in 1836 ancl,lBl,,ad
stating their intention to apply the net proceeds or .-e0
sales strictly to emigration purposes. If he bad bets()
successful in convincing the House of the bardshiPs 'be
colonies had suffered, tic hoped the House would os,be
backward in making reparation. He considered that f
system, if continued, would lead to the interruption °d
these land sales. He was of opinion that reason 11°_,.
justice required that the Imperial Treasury should fear
one-half of the charges of gaols and police. If this wer,
done, the colony would have no other claim open u9°ln
the claim which all our colonies have for protection.
up
his opinion also, justice required that we should Make of
to the colony the deficit that had arisen- in consequence/4i%
the entire charge having been hitherto defrayed by ttAll lite
.
resolution did not go into any definite proposition•
required was that the House would consider the sub)
He therefore rm,ved the following resolutions :--
" 1. That it appears that, in October 1840, the re'es,,,s
ing resolutions were passed by the Governor and Leg's
time Council of New South Wales, viz.:— t
" 1. That in the opinion of this Council, the Pliec.es
State, indisputably deriving a direct pecuniary:saving (eof
dependently of other advantages) from the assignmorrt its
convicts to private service in New South Wales, end
interests being at all events in an equal if not a superiou
degree involved in the due coercion and discipline of suc
transported offenders, ought in justice to bear at least out:.
half of the expenses attendant on the police and gaol t
blishments, which arc raised to their present large amot.'n_
chiefly through tho introduction of a convict population
into the colony.
2. That his Excellency the Governor be respectrsolicited to represent, on behalf of this Council, to
uthl.lll-
Majesty's Secretary of State for the Colonies, that :
Council has most reluctantly consented to so large awe.%
penditure for the support of those establishments since tne
tat of July, 1835, and has voted the full amount of the
estimate for the same fir the year 1841, solely from a con-
viction that it would hot be justified in declining to make
provision for the maintenance of the public tranquillity and
security.
" ` 3. That by the appropriation, for the period from the
Ist July, 1835, to 31st December, 1841, of so large se
amount (about 507,0001.) of the Colonial Raven
arising partly from the sale of public lands, partlfgo
ordinary source=,in dares ing the whole charge °1 the
police aed gaol establishments, including buildings nose
consequent diminution of those funds which would .0,1
been available for the introduction of free labour, edso..
branch of the productive industry of this colony is in„ pot
ger of falling into decay, to the great loss and iniu*.,,aro
only of the colony, but of the parent State also,
especially of its manufacturing, commercial, and shiPPI"
interests.' gaol
" 2. That the above large expenses of police and go,
stablishments have, since July, 1835, been defrayed,
application of a considerable portion of the net Per
the o
0
„ed.!, of the sales of Crown lands in the colony to •
general i.,:trposes of colonial revenue.
it appears, by papers now before the .-14°Iinse.
No. 81, 1841), that there has been r;',
ceived front tite sales of Crown lands in New So.'ll,
(IZ.3s.lTl,blatt:l6‘-
00,0os
a gross total sum of „...
the period from 1831 to Juno 1840 inclutOnne
Wales, during
From which dedue t
"1. Charges of various kinds,
including expenses of the settle-
•

mentor Port Philip, and of pro-
tection to the Aborigines £41,300
"2. Actual charge of survey and
management (though for eight
cars paid out of the general re- _

.. _
venue cf the Colony) agote £149.700 009
Making together about £l9
---e"
And leaving net proceeds of sales .---- ,e)
of Crown Lands to June 1840 £767,0v-
Whereof the sum of 502,5001. only has been applied toil:
purposes of emigration from the United Kingdom to Pc
South Wales.
"4. That this House will, on Wednesday next, resels4
itself into a Committee of the whole House, fur the Puri;
pose of considering the manner in which the cost of ga° a.
and police in New South Wales has been defrayed. a,es
the manner in which the Land Fund of New South Wa'
has been expended, sincQ 1835." ' 4
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER trtl't
his lion. Friend would riot pcnevere in his resolutictis,
after the explanation which he had to offer. Even 50 ifirr
back as 1827, Lord Goderich, in a despatch, exPrP„Tj
laid it down that the colony, so soon as it could, s°°","
beer some portion of the expenses of its police and gar:si:
The arrangement then made continued in force until 18`3,:
when Lord Althorp, then filling the office he had now t":
honour to hold, had some correspondence with Mr. Sec'
etar"
Rice upon the subject ; and the revenue of the coloeY
having then much increased, it was thought adsisable to
make another arrangement, by which the mother cou"trY
should afford to the colony full and adequate protectio!!
and the colony should maintain its internal expenses itseit
The expere-liture of the colony had increased, in
co
peace of the increasets.
of population and trade, wh•e-
caused a necessity for Ito ger police and other estab:ishrnen
In fact, the colony was now paying, under the new arrangrei;
meat, less ia proportion to its augmentation than before. a "
this country was contributiFg more. The Right Hon. GO '
tleman then read returns of the expenditure of the coital
since 1822, in support of that statement. Nearly one-half n
tsuh
of the expenses o, the colony were defrayed by the motile..
country since that tke(e; and there could not be any grey
°
hardship to the colony 1.; an arrangement which left til
distribution of the but then a()disturbed. The increase
eireunistatres, 13
the police cleo•ge was not unfai, ly put upon the colony, Os
it was occasioned exclusively by coieeill.
no way whatever connected with 131itai.l. It was impos"
sible that the imperial Government could c,ontrel that ex-
eniliture, which must be iiitrustcd to the discriel'oa °I.A./1°
tical Government. The works carried on by theL'o,/..
vernment out of the land fund, in new roads, harbour'', a°
public buildings, benefited all the old colonists by 'in'
proving the value of their lands. It was too much to c% -
peep that this country should bear the eKpense of a Pc'licir
Loma over which ecither the Go+ ernment nor the polio'
ment could have any control. The Right lion. Geode"
by
YLER moving the previous question.
said the question for the conaide.
Mr.
ration :)olfbeud
t.lheßeliL
:ilouse was whether it was wtrib while lc°.
this House to pay 40,0001. or 50,0001. far the purpose al
soutir
promoting emigration to thecolony of New
Wales. In his ( Mr. Bull • . , , woul4
er s) opinion, such a suri
be pro[c.ly expended in the promotion of so important arr
ght the colonists object. The colony, besides raisin valuable prodeecefe°r
exportation, took a large potion ofg our' home manula--
(tlheoruable
lure:, and 1/411--e
, IT led support and subsEteneu for
a coop;
oolofniostitsr
I%l.JoOrle/U!ca,nitoitlil ; 1 and on , thiteo‘nieffwer,firE;
real ground of complaint was that the colony was 51i- her
et to consicera 1 . . ...
from the mode of punishment adopted by the la""ei
country--this was plainly utjust to the colonists. no_dein
not rest their claims upon the pledges which had vf„
given by this Government that they could not divest ta:
proceeds of the land sales from the purposes of cmieg:.:„.
tier. The question, in his opinion, was bow cculd thfirest
Tony be made most to contribute to the benefit of "' 0 i
Britain. The expenditure of money upon the purPn°,sictslato
emigration was no idle waste of funds, but art expe !-' of
which would tell upon the wealth and P"Feritfould
the colony ; every person who went out w et
increase its value. It was a colony which Ito
not to he trifled with. The amount of British exPir or
Now South Wales, was larger than that to acY .° A oe
most consieerable customers in Europe ; it supplau BY
of the mot valuable staples for our own manufacture;
ted,
providing the colonists with what they chiefly a I.'e„, s
nroVl'w
namely labour, the Government could at once rt opt
market for home manufacture, and furnish 0114100
for the de.ititute population.- He had sten manyor

E

ration for
bound to
to do so,
hot weigl
Welfare,
hies and
Lord J
ter.). ogre
Motion
tthees of t
the public
such assi
Noble Lc

Rant o f;
Part of tb
this counl
lona. T
'SPecting
%at even
000/.
nad been
the additi
Paid tarp
414, stibje,
Justice.
rev_
,nues

e follow'
Legisia-

e parent
ving (iri
Intol .6)
' and 1"
superint:
of sue°
:.ast one-
aol csta-
, amount
Vitiation

pec
1, to he
that this
.e an el-
since the
t of the
n a con-
to make
llity and

from the
largo
Z3vel
aloe
the
b",
clla ol)
r, asp,
do,
n
ot
urylvp
jo
or°
,bipPiPg

nd o°l
Byed
by
tot Pro'
r to the

Hoare
eon rt 7,
Sout"
clasi
•ver
08,00

91,000
57,000
to the
0 Pk°

re 50144
c
. gaols
is an
d.
Wales

which
lots•

EVENING EDITION

of a better spirit in the colonial department. He trusted
the Noble Lord would extend the same wise and benee
seial policy to this colony which had been displayed in
ma treatment of the other colonies of this empire.
Lord MAHON said it could not be denied that most
grievous distress prevailed at this moment in New South
Wales; or that it was owing to the acts of the Govern-
Ment at home. Considering the short period of its exist-
ences the prosperity of this colony was unparalleled in
Modern times; the colony in the last year exported six
Million pounds of wool. Its prosperity had, however,
been greatly impeded by the acts of the Government at
home. He concurred in the abolition of assignment, be-
lieving it to be a bad system though adopted for the pure
• Pose of reforming and reclaiming the convicts. At the
tame time he must express his conviction that the rapid
Progress of the colony was to be attributed greatly to the
existence of such a system ; it had supplied this colony
,With abundance of labour, when otherwise there must
nave been a great scarcity. When the abolition of con-
signment was followed by the imposition of the whole ex-
Pease of police, the two causes had led to great distress;
but,, when those were followed by the hasty measure of the
Noble Lord, the very worst consequences had followed.
He held in his hand a despatch received in December last,
stating that in every public department the greatest diffi-
culty existed; and that no undertaking, public or private,
could be prosecuted, unless at an enormous expense. The
distress arose from the deficiency in the supply of labour.
In many instances lambs had perished where they had been
dropped for want of hands to tend them. lie (Lord
Mahon) contended that a very strong prima facie
ease of grievance had been made out.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. Gibbon Wakefield laid down the opinion that the dis-
tress of the colony had not reached its worst point, and
that " a very dangerous state of things was coming on in
New South Wales." Then, if he Lord Mahon) was
asked how these evils were to be met, how these griev-
ances were to be remedied, it seemed to him that there
Were several modes in which the House might interpose
for the welfare of the colony. He was not prepared tea
sae that he would concur in any vote for the repayment
of all the sums taken from the land fund, for he believed
the labour of the convicts, from 1825, had cancelled the
Claim previous to that period. In the motion before the
Mouse as it stood originally, ho was not disposed to concur,
but within the two last days a considerable change had
been effected in it. The motion now, after reciting the
Acts of the Legislative Council in New South Wales,
Pledged the House to this only, to resolve themselves into
Committee of the whole House, for the purpose of con-
Meting the manner in which the cost of gaols and police
la New South Wales had been defrayed, and the
doer in which the land fund of New Squth
17es has been expended since the year 1835. This
•(Lord Mahon) considered to imply no more than a
disposition in the House to afford relief to the colony, but
!ithout binding itself as to the manner. He reserved the
^' etlegree of assistance he would afford, and only pledged
• ealmself so far as to state that he thought there was a prima
'lfaeie case of grievance, and that he would assist them.
But he must also say that just as the claim of New South
Wales in the present instance was, he thought it derived
additional force from the importance at the present moment
of emigration to the British Empire. He rejoiced to see
the enlightened eagerness of the labouring population to
emigrate. Their sentiments on this subject woe well ex-
pressed in the petition from Glasgow. He did not say
the sentiments so feelingly expressed in that petition were
a reason for concurring in the present motion, but they
afforded a motive for it, as showing that the interests of
New South Wales were identified with those of a large
Portion of our own population. It was impossible to ex-
aggerate the importance of emigration at the present mo-
Meta. Look at the increase of labourers in proportion to
the growth of labour, and then say whether emigration
Was not the safety valve for our population. Let
Country gentlemen depend upon this that emigration
Would be found in the long run to be the best Poor-law.—
(Hear, hear.) But he did not confine the importance of
emigration alone to the labouring classes. It c as impos-
sible for any one to be acquainted with the literature of
this country without seeing how persons in those walks of
'le were debarred, from the excess of population, from ob-
taining their daily bread. He did feel, therefore, that
!here was strong reasons for this motion in the state of Eng-
lend at the present moment. In his opinion, this great and
iglorious destiny was reserved for England. It was by
laying abroad the foundation of future empires she could
hest secure her own empire at home. It was by laying the
foundation of free and prosperous colonies we could best
maintain freedom, honour, and prosperity at home. He
did not urge this as a reason for this motion, but as corrobo-
ration for it. He believed, in equity and justice, they were
bound to comply with it; and he was the more disposed
to do so, believing that some assistance, such as should
hot weigh heavily upon our resources, would promote the
Welfare, and confer considerable benefit both on the colo-
nies and the mother country.—( Hear, hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL said that no doubt it would be a
Sere, agreeable thing for a member of the Government when
14 motion was brought forward respecting alleged griev-
ances of the Colonies, and for aesistanoe to be given from
the public revenues of this country, if ho could advise that
such assistance should be given. He could assure the
Noble Lord that there was no want of applications, and no
want of cases of other colonies making similar claims, that
Part of their expenses should be charged upon the funds of
this country. Some of these were founded on strong rea-
sons. There was a State connected with this conntry re-
-IPecting which a Noble Lord was about to make a motion
that evening, he meant the lonian Islands, who paid
,a‘5,000/. a-year for military contribution, and application
aad been made to relieve them from this burden, and from
the additional taxation it imposed upon them. Ceylon also
Paid large sums for military expenses, and Jamaica was
itt:oftehject to great expense on this account for her courts
.
j4atice. There were scarcely any of the colonies whose
revenues were at all available that did not say what ad-
Vantage it would be if part of these expenses were paid by
the mother country. It was urged that the Governors joined
ir, their applications, and he found that this never failed to
he the ease. The other day he was conversing with Sir
Colin Campbell, who had hardly been appointed a week
ag G )vernor of Ceylon, what it would be best to do fur
that colony, and he had said the best thing would be to
east part of their military expenses. If he (Lord John
Russell) were to compare all the cases of these colonies,
his opinion on the whole would be, that the colony which
Was the most favoured, and had the least cause for assis-
knee, the colony that had derived the greatest advantange
from the mother country, and had the least grievance to
ee°mPlain of, was the colony of New South Wales. The
Noble Lord said that there was a cause of great grievance
and distress, and he stated that there was a great demand
or labourers. No doubt there wa's, and no doubt the
Nony would be much benefited by a large increase of
tihourers, but that was not in itself a cause of distress is
the
e colony. When he beard Hon. Gentlemen state that
there was great distress in Ireland, that a man could not
earn Gd. a day, and lived on potatoes, and that both him-
'elf and his family were suffering for want of food, and
from low wages, that he admitted to be a case of distress.
But when the Noble Lord said the demand for
labour was so great, and such high wages
Were paid, and there were such large rations
t'f food, this was a reason why the colony did not
make such a progress as it might otherwise do • but it
lan not on account of the distress of the colony, 'but the
I"Verse. It was on account of their being so much capital
itit,the colony that there was not employment fur that
nich might be profitably employed. It was proved by
tapers on the table of the House that 40,000 persons had
been added to the colony at the expense of revenues
!!anted by the act of the Government ; and yet it was
Kith respect to this colony the Noble Lord made a special
c
~enaplaint. Government had expended in adding to the
bass of the population upwards of half a million ; yet it
42 said that nothir.g had been done for it. Ile must say,
With regard to many colonies for which little had been
tlo
ne, there might be some plausible complaint, but with
regard to this colony the whole complaint was that the
J.'iony might make more rapid advances if they would give
' 'ern 50,0001. a-year more. No doubt their rate of pro-
ress would be accelerated. but, as a general question, he
feld, with rpect to this colony, m ore had been done than
Walmost any colony under the Queen's Government.
ith regard to the assignment system, which the Noble
Lord thought was properly abolished, he agreed with the
14toble Lord that it had tended much to the prosperity of
2he colony. If they set aside all views of morality, and
,
the religious and moral welfare of the colony, nothing
'ended so much to advance its prosperity as the command
Of slave labour. But if this increase of convicts had gone
ea it would have become so alarming that military pre-
cautions must have been taken for the safety of the colony.
tint at the very time this population became dangerous,
Lord Ripon established a system by which the I Inds of
the colony, instead of being granted gr,tuit )usly, incon-
Cderately and improperly, were sold and employed in im-
Porting labourers to recruit the population of the colony
from a , more healthy source. When that system was
rtopted, the foundation was laid of good community in
tieesi South Wales, and it in a great degree
thstroed the effect of convict emigration, and
14 hay
ving first laid the foundation of a gre it material
tresperity, we in the second instance laid the foundation of
i,e moral and political prosperity of New South Wales.
.nerefore, without saying that it was done for the pecu-
illar advantage of that colony, he did say it had happened
reaPeCt to New South Wales that that colony had been
genliarly favoured, and that no one of the colonies of the
rilish empire had been so 'fortunate. It was said their
poe4ent position was one of distress. Now with regard
revenue it appeared from official documents that the
4evrierage revenue in 1833 and 1834;was 150,0001., in 1837
1838 208,0001., and it appeared that on the Bth Au.
bit,, 1840, including the land fund and quit rent,
total receipt cf the year was 427,368/.
aet was the state of a colony which the Noble Lord
toll d upon the heavily burdened people of England to
en_ttibute 'some 50,000/. to, in order to help up their re-
"e•—( Hear, hear.) He believed there was no instance
tlto,nich so rapid an increase in the prosperity of a colony
the Hon. Mem-
hc`nd be pointed out, It was alleged by
sill' for Liskcard that the people of that colony were bra-
taxed; but the comparison which the lion. Member
lit! Made was extremely fallacious. He did not find that,
tro the people of that country, they paid a heavy window
ece.tY, a stamp duty, a legacy duty, and heavy duties on
HoHon.
and sugar, and tea—[Mr. Hume—" And corn."]_
usa Hon. Friend behind had added even upon the importa-
tc'un of coro.—(Loud cries of tt Hear, hear.") Now he
1.1!t say that that was a proof that the people of Great
Le itain were much more heavily burdened, and it would
hr:Xtremely unfair to ask them to contribute to the assist..
or i; of a colony which was progressing so rapidly as that
of teew South Wales. Even the taxes that were paid out
eetue local and county rates in England were there paid
teec°l the general revenue, and that was why the expendie
bar_of the ordinary revenue was so heavy. In 1838 the ordi-
tit/ revenue of the colony was 204,000/., and out of that
lteddi.tt,tY upon tobacco and spirits imported and distilled,
the
c'lles, amounted to 145,278/ , to that, with regard to
eery Mary sources of taxation their contributions were
PronelOts for he know of no articles which were more
kerVi3' the subject of taxation, than those he had cuts-
eieeill',(l. It was impossible to avoid these comparisons,
the
c tioat House was called upon to come to the relief of
Wales In his opinion, the inhabitants of New South
esti aid not pay one tenth the amount of taxation that
"id by the people of this country. The House would

recollect that there was a sum of 300,0001., which they
were called upon to pay, as connected with the penal sys-
tem of that country. He did not object to their paying
that sum ; and there was, besides, the expenses of the
military defence of the colony, which was borne by Great
Britain. The Hon. Member for Liikeard had argued,
that because they had troops they must be stationed some-
where, and therefore it entailed no additional expense upon
the mother country; but it appeared to him, that if they
had not these colonies, they would not require to keep up
so large a military force.—( Hear.) The Noble Lord had
referred to the great advantages that would result from
promoting emigration to New South Wales, and he ( Lord J.
Russell) agreed with bim. He fully concurred in the
principles laid down by Mr. Wakefield and the Noble
Lord the Secretary for the Colonies, who had advocated
the plan of applying the money obtained from the sale of.
colonial lands to the purposes of emigration. That ap-
peared to him a very wholesome anti judicious system, and
much preferable to giving a suns of 50 or 100,000/. from
the Imperial treasury for such a purpose. From the de-
spatches of Sir Georgo Gipps, it appeared that a sum of
156,0001. had been obtained by the sale of lands, and a
sum of 162,0001. had been expended fir the purpose of
promoting emigration, so that a sum of 6,000/. more thus
had been coheeted from that source had been expended in
emigration. The Hon. Member for the City of London
had argued as if the Government were anxious to put a
stop to emigration to New South Wales. No such thing.
On the contrary, he thought it was a great benefit to the
colony, a- d they were determined to promote it a; far as
lay in their power. The only way to lay the foundation of
a great, a moral, and a prosperous community in that
colony, was to introduce as many healthy and able-
bodied emigrants as they could from the mother country.
—( flenr, hear.) It appeared to him most unreasonable
that 50,000/. should be taken from the taxes of the
people of New South Wales, and imposed upon the heavily-
burdened people of Great Britain. Upon that very
question a decision had been come to in 1834, and the
then Chancellor of the Exchequer had decidedly objected
to such a proceeding. He was happy to say that from
year to year the nature of the population of the colony was
changing, and becoming more resembling the population
of this country, or that of Scotland or Ireland ; and it
would be incumbent upon the legislature of that country
when such a change took place, to give to the colony those
free representafve institutions which properly belonged to
all colonies derived from the race that inhabited these
kingdoms.—( Hear, hear.) His belief was, that whether
that change took place a little earlier or a little later, all
must concur with him in admitting that such must eventu-
ally be the state of the colony of New South Wale;.
Sir W. MOL E SWORTH concurred in most of the
observations of the Noble Lord opposite, but he differed
with him in his remarks upon the assignment system. It
appeared to him that if the whole of the fund arising from
the sale of lands had been applied to emigration, the diffi-
culties which the assignment system had given rise to
would never have occurred. With regard to the argu-
ment of the Hon. Member for London that a portion of
the local expenditure should be defrayed by the public
purse of Great Britain, it appeared to him that there
should be some circumstances in the case to take that
colony out of the general rule, and he thought the colony
of New South Wales presented that peculiarity. Since
it had been founded, between 70,000 and 80,000 convicts
had been transported to the colony, and the expense of
the gaols and police there was nine times a; great as
it wes at home. It was but just, therefore, that
the mother country should defray some portion of
the extra expense it had entailed upon them.
Those colonies would, in a very short period, become the
best market for our manufactured goods; but, in order
that they should become so, it was necessary that they
should be fully supplied with labour. He fully agreed
with his Hon. Friend the Member for London, that the
nett proceeds derived from the sales of waste land ought
to be applied solely to emigration purposes.
Sir IL PEEL could not deny that emigration might
be a double advantage to this country ; first increasing the
population of distant colonies, and relieving this country
from its superfluous population, but he did not think it
would be either wise or honest to charge the finances of
the mother country with a charge of 50,000/. or 60,0001.
per annum. If they were to agree to the principle, as re-
lated to New South Wales, %%here was it to stop? Might it
not be applied to Canada, or, in fact, all our other colonies?
New South Wales had made very rapid progress in wealth
from the system of convict labour ; she had derived the be-
nefit of that system; could she then complain of being
called upon to provide for her internal Government? He
did not think that New South Wales had any
equitable claim upon the treasury of the mother
country for such expenses. The latter already
spent, as he understood, 330,0001. for the establishments
of that colony ; it provided for its defence, and in his opinion
the colony had no right to ask for anything more. He re-
gretted that any stop should he put to emigration into the
colony, but the colony might tax itself for the purpose;
at all events he could not agree to saddle the already over-
burdened treasury of this country with an increased outlay
of 52,0001. per annum. At present there was an unhappy
disposition in every country in Europe to prodigality in
expenditure—( Hear, hear)—there was a remarkable defi-
ciency in the income, and unless some steps were taken to
reduce the expenditure in every country the most gloomy
prospects would encompass them ; it was not to be done
by spending 20 or 30 millions in fortifications—(Cheers)
—but by enlightening the people. He could not give his
assent to the resolutions of the Hon. Member.

Mr. WARD thought that the funds derived from the
sale of lands ought to be applied to the purpose of sup-
plying the colony with labourers of a class superior to that
which the assignment system offered. He was willing
to admit that the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colo-
tonics had done more than any of his predecessors to im-
prove the management of our colonial possesmionr. But
still he felt that the purchasers of land had a right to ex-
pect, upon every principle of good faith and public justice,
that they should be supplied with the labour, which they
had been led to expect, and without which the land was
worth nothing. He would vote for a Committee of In-
quiry.
Sir R. IL INGLIS was sorry to differ from his Right

Hon. Friend ( Sir Robert Peel), but he thought that
Australia had a claim upon this country for the expense of
taking care of the convicts who were sent thither, and he
should support the motion.
Sir C. GREY said it would be most alarming if this
country should be callei upon to support the police esta-
blishments in her distant colonies. He felt it his duty to
oppose the motion of his Hon. Friend.
Mr. HUME was sorry not to be able to vote with his
Hon. Friend the Member for London. The whole debate
arose from the colonial system being perfectly unintelligi-
ble. It would be highly dangeorous to admit the doc-
trines of his Hon. Friend. The difference with his
Hon. Friend was, whether the whole or only part should
be applied to the purposes of emigration. The Noble
Lord had clearly shown that no part of the fund had been
diverted from the expenditure of the colony. It had
been shown, in the course of the debate, that
there were still thirty. eight thousand convicts
working for the colony. The colony, therefore, still con-
tinued to derive benefit from the assignment system, and
it was quite reasonable, therefore, that they should bear a
portion of the expense of maintaining these convicts. He
really did not see what grounds there were for going into
Committee. It would be highly unjust to apply 50,000/.
to the promotion of emigration is New South Wales, un-
leEs they were also prepared to extend the same benefit to
other colonic.. The management of the gaols and the
expense of the police was, in his opinion, a legitimate ex-
pense of the colony.
Mr. GROTE, in reply said, that had the promises of
Lord Rion and Lord Glenelg been fulfilled, 200,0001.
would have been devoted to the colony.

Strangers were then ordcred to withdraw and the
:louse divided—
For the motion
Against it
Majority against the motion —44
lONIAN ISLANDS.

Lord C. FITZROY moved for the appointment of a
Select Committee to take into consideration the papers
relating to the lonian States, ordered by the House of
Commons to be printed the 22d day of June, 1840. The
Noble Lord said his object was to obtain for the lonian
States, which contained an honest and industrious popula-
tion, the fair and impartial administration of justice. He
also wished to save them from the injustice of the Lord
High Commissioner and his staff, whose representations
respecting them were most erroneous. The Noble Lord
prcc'eded to veld several extracts from the despatches of
the Lord High Commissioner: of the lonian Islands, for
the purpose of showing the management and great expense
attending the government of these islands. The Noble
Lord complained of the Lord high Commissionei's conduct
in entering the houses and seizing the paper., of many of
the inhabitants. All these things having come to his know-
ledge he would not have thought he had performed his
duty had be not put the House in possession of the facts.
He thought be had shown good grounds for referring the
papers to a Select Committee.
Mr. HUME seconded the motion.

Lordl. RUSSELL didinot think there was arty ground
fl,r a Committee upon the subject. The Noble Lord
ought to remember that the lonian States did not form a
colony of this country, they were peculiarly situated, and
were governed under the Treaties di 1815. All the au-
thorities in those islands were acting harmoniously to-
gether, nor was there any disturbance among the people,
who were general!y employed at high wages. Was it
right then of the House of Commons to interfere
and disturb such a state of peace ?—( Hear, hear.)
He was extremely sorry that his Noble Friend had brought
this subject again before the House after the decision of
last year. He should give a decided negative to the
motion.

Sir H. HARDINGE Mendel the conduct of Sir
Howard Douglas against the charges urged by his Noble
Friend Lord C. Fitzroy. He begged to ask his Noble
Fried whether he meant to say that Sir Howard Douglas
opened letters which were passed through the Government
office, and, having informed himself of the contents, sealed
them up again in other envelopes.
Lord C. FITZROY said that an individual named
Courrge had made distinctly that charge against the Go-
vernor.
Sir R. H. INGLIS also dcfonded tl:e character of Sir
Howard Douglas, and referred to the public testimony
borne by the lonians themselves, to his judicious and im-
part:al conduct as Lord Commissioner.
Mr. HUME supported the motion, and expressed his
astonishment that the friends of Sir H. Douglas did not
want inquiry. Was it a proper state of things, where the
only organ of public opinion was the Gazette, published
under the authority of the Government? He (Mr.
Hume) would not sanction any officer, no matter what his
military fame, who suppressed the liberty of the press.
He considered the House of Commons were bound to
accede to the present motion, and he would support it
most cordially, if only his Noble Friend could be found to
divide on the question.
Sir R. PEE L thought it apparent from the report of the
Finance Commi t2o of the House of Assembly of the
lonian Islands, that strict economy was indispensably
necessary ; this was on the authority of the Government of
that country. He thought Sir Howard Douglas acted
under circumstances of peculiar difficulty. It assertions
were made reflecting on the character of Sir Howard

Douglas, that gentleman's friends had a right to complain,
cnd demand an explanation. He (Sir R. Peel) was sure
that the Noble Lord (Fhtzroy) had no intention of casting
any imputations on the Gallant Officer.
Sir C. GREY thought there were sufficient grounds for
inquiry.
Colonel RAWDON considered that as the conduct of
a public officer was free to be canvassed, when an asser-
tion was made in a British House of Commons reflecting
on it, it was but right that an inquiry should be instituted.
After a few words from Sir H. VIVIAN,
Lord C. FITZROY explained.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House
divided, when the numbers were—

For the motion
Against it
Majority —lB
_ _

On our return to the gallery we found
Mr. HUME, moving► for returns, in detail, of
the sum of 3,0271. granted as compensation in pub-
lic offices or departments in the year ending the
31st day of December, 1840. Also, of 39,0011.
18,. 51, granted as superannuation allowances, in the
same time ; stating the name of each person, his present
age, the office he held, the total number of years, the
period of entering, and the time he was in the service, and
how long he held the office for which compensation or super-
annuation was granted ; the amount of salary and allowance
for such last office, and whether the office he held has been
abolished. Also, a return of the manner in which 3,310/. 2s.
10d., and 6 0931 03. 511. was disbursed by the Me.ropolitan
Police Cimmissioners in the year 1840, as superannuation
charges; stating the name of each person, his present
age, the period of service, and in what capacity he ca-
tered it, and in what capacity he last served, the pay and
allowances of his last rank, and the amount of compensa-
tion now alio wed.—Agreed to.
The Factories Bill, after a few words from Mr. FOX
MAULS and Mr. lIUME, was read a second time
and committed for Friday, the 30th of April, as was /11E°
the Silk Factories Bill.

. ....
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned et One o'Clock.

WILLIAM THORNBORROW, ESQ.

[We have much pleasure in publishing the fol-
lowing highly creditable testimonials to the cha-
racter of a gentleman of great practical ability in
a department where prompt decision is as neces-
sary as commercial sagacity. Mr. Thornborrow
has especial claims on the Proprietors or Sub-
scribers to the Forth Marine Insurance Company,
and the handsome manner in which the Directors
of that establishment have expressed their grati-
tude is at mice a proof of how highly they appre-
ciate the services of Mr. Thornborrow.—En.
SUN.]

" Reports having been circulated in the City
that the exertions of Mr. Thornborrow for the
interests of parties with whom he has been con-
nected in the Underwriting business have been
unsuccessful, he feels it due to himself to publish
the following testimonials :"
COPY OF A LETTER FROM P. M. STEWART,
ESQ., M.P., TO MR. TRORNBORROW.
No. 11, Upper Brook-street, Aug. 12, 1836.
My dear Sir,—Now that our Underwriting account is
closed, I must return you my most sincere thanks for your
faithful and successful attention to the business ; and allow me
to offer you and Mrs. Thornborrow a small token of my friend-
sh;p and esteem.
You will gratify me very much by applying the inclosed sum
to the purchase of a piece of plate ; and I also encloso the in-
scription I should like to be put upon it.
Believe me to be, yours sincerely,
To William Thornborrow, Esq. P. M. STEWART.

EXTRACTS FROM' THE FIRST REPORT BY THE DIRECTORS
OF THE FORTH MARINE INSURANCE COMPANY, OF
LEITH, TO THE PROPRIETORS, 16TH JUNE, 1840, BEING
THE END OF THE FIRST YEAR UNDER MR. THORNBOR-

ROW'S MANAGEMENT.
" The Directors have to exoress their gratification at meet-
ing. the Shareholders of this uompany for the first time, and
trust that the Report which they have now to submit, will
prove satisfactory to the meeting."
" The Partners are aware that the Company was estab-
lished in May, 1.839, with the vier/ of affording to the public
a facility and security in effecting Marine Insurances, the
want of which had been long felt in this quarter, and ope-
rated as a serious drawback in business."
" The Directors have the satisfaction to announce that the
merchants and ship owners of this port and neighbourhood,
have come forward freely with their Insurances, and have been
met in the same liberal spirit ; at the same exercising that
caution, which is particularly requisite at the commencement
of such an Institution."

" The 4,000 Shares into which the capital stock of the Com-
pany was divided, and on which a call of 21. 10s. per Share
has been made, was allocated to parties whose connection has
been generally beneficial to the Company. The sum of 10,0001.
being the full amount of the call, has been promptly paid up.
A few of these Shares which remained undisposed of, were
some months since sold at such a premium as satisfactorily
proved the public estimation of the principles on which this
Company was constituted and conducted."
" The Directors being fully aware that the success of the
Company must depend greatly on the character and experience
of the party to whom the management might be entrusted, de-
puted two of their number to proceed to London, for the pur-
pose of making such arrangements as would secure the service
of a properly qualified person for the important situation of
Manager. They were so fortunate as to be enabled to con-
clude an engPy,ement with Mr. William Thornborrow, then
Secretary of the Marine Insurance Company, one of the most
extensive Institutions of the empire ; and of whose qualifica-
tions for that office they received the most satisfacbry infor-
mation, which has been confirmed by their subsequent expe-
rience. The tame attention has been bestowed on the other
appointments in this establishment, and the Directors have
to state that all the departments are occupied by individuals,
on whose attention and accuracy they can depend."
" The field for Marine Insurances in this quarter, being ge-
nerally limited in its extent, and consisting chiefly of Northern
risks, the Directors resolved to act on the power conferred by
the contract, by establishing agencies at such ports as would
secure a more extensive and diversified share of business; they
accordingly appointed agents at - ; and latterly, a branch
has been formed in London, under the superintendence of a
Board who act as agents, and who were appointed on the re-
comendation of Mr. Thornborrow ; the operations of the last
named agency commenced on the Ist of January, and from all
of them a large amount of business has been procured. In
the formation of these agencies the exertions of Mr. Thorn-
borrow were most valuable and unremitting, the whole having
been arranged under his immediate superintendence."
" The books of the Company have been balanced to 31st
May, in terms of the contract of co-partnership, ant: consider-
ing that the agencies have only been in operation from six to
nine months, the Directors have to express their entire satis-
faction with the amount of business done, and of premiums
realised, which greatly exceed their anticipations. The pre-
miums on Insurances effected from May, 1839, to 31st May,
1840, amount to 62,8141. Is. 7d."
(Signed) " GEORGE THORBURN, Chairman."

The Edinburgh Press gave the following Account of the
First Meeting of the Forth Marine Insurance Company, as
follows :
The first Annual Meeting of the Forth Marine Insurance
Company took place on Tuesday forenoon in the Exchange
lintel, and was very numerously attended, George Thorburn,
Esq., in the Chair. The Report was read, which exhibited
the drab's of the Company in a very favourable light, and
a considerable amount of profit has been added to the capital,
which, after the payment of all losses, and the reserve of a
sufficient fund to re-insure all outstanding risks, would have
/idly warranted the Directors to have declared a very hand-
some dividend ; but for a clause in the deed of co-partnery
forbidding a dividend being given till after the first year.
The meeting unanimously approved of the Report, and ap-
peared highly gratified with the proceedings of the year.
Votes of thanks were carried with acclamation to the Direc-
tors for their valuable assistance. To William Thornborrow,
Esq., for his talented and efficient management, and to B. F.
Gray, Esq., for his indefatigable exertions as Secretary.
An important question was put to the Chairman by an in-
fluential partner, viz., " In the event of our considering it
expedient at once to dissolve this Company, what would our
position be? I hope lam not putting an irregular question."
Upon which the Chairman immediately rose ar.d said-4, I
assure our worthy co-partne7 that he has placed me in no diffi-
culty. Should we dissolve and wind up this day, we could re-
insure all our outstanding risks for twenty thousand pounds ;
and we should then have upwards of eight thousand pounds
to divide among our partners, who have only been called upon
for a deposit of ten thousand pounds, not one shilling of which
has been required for the business—the premiums received
front the commencement being far more thaa sufficient to meet
all demands."

Such was the eclat of the meeting that. a few hours after
shares were solicited at 501. per cent. premium I
In the evening the partners entertained the Directors, &c.,
viz.:—George Thornburn, Esq., Alexander Jameson, Esq.,
Thos. Young, Esq., John Smith, Esq., Charles Lawson, Esq.,
Alexander Seltultze, Esq., Alexander Anderson, Esq., Wil-
liam Muir, Esq., the Manager, William Thornborrnw, Esq.,
and the Secretary, B. F. Gray, Esq., to dinner in INl'Dougall's
Hotel ; Provost Ileoch in the Chair, supported by Bathe Thom,
F. Schultze, Esq., John Gillon, Esq., George Berry, Esq.,
John Murdoch, Esq., Provost Ferrier, of Kirkaldy, &e.
Thomas flay, Esq., officiated as croupier, supported by George
Thomson, Esq., William Doull, Esq., &c.
The Provost, in proposing the h: alth of her gracious Ma-
jesty the Queen, said, that if, at all times this was the leading
toast o: our festive assemblies, how much more so would it be
drunk on the present occasion, when the voice of the nation was
expressing congratulations upon her providential escape from
the hands of an assassin !—( Great applause.)
The other toasts were—" The Provost and Mr"istrates of
Lei .h ;" the " Chairman and Directors of the Company ;"
" William Thornborrow, Esq., and a cup of thanks for his ex-
cellent management ;" "George Berry, Esq., and the Extra-
ordinary Directors;" " 13. F. Gray, Esq., Secretary to the
Company," &c.
The Company separated highly delighted with the whole
proceedings of the day.
Leith, 16th June, 1840.

Mr. Sams, of Darlington, has just published
(see advertisement), Part I , of a Descriptive Catalogue
cf Scarce and Important Biblical, and °the.. Works.
Tbii catalogue, which we have scan, contains numerous
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lected in various foreign pacts; and we notice that a copy
(gratis) will he forwarded to any gentleman, or purchaser
of books, that may send a reque:t or address to the
proprietor.
From the late Henry Cowper, Esq., of Tewen
Waters, Herts., to Messrs. S. and B. Solomons, 39, Albemarle.
street, Piccadilly, opposite the York Hotel, and 76, King William.
street, Bank of England.—." Gentlemen, having been deaf for
many years, I was induced from recommendation to try your Invisi-
ble Voice Conductors, and I have great pleasure in telling you that
they enable me to bear persoi 3 in company and at a place of error.
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which I have derived, I have recommended many persons to you,
and their report is similar to mine—most favourable. The Spec-
tacles and Hand-glass which you have sent me are very excellent,
and suit my sight precisely, and surpass any thing of the kind I

have ever tried ; the transparency of which is so brilliant, that,
although I have passed my 56th year the 22d of May last , yet they
enable me to read, &c., by candlelight with the greatest ease and
comfort to myself.—Gentlemen, I return you my best thanks,
and remain your most obedient servant. HENRY COWPER.—
June 22, 1830."—Gcneral Browne Clayton feels desirous to ex.
press the comfort and advantage he has derived at his advanced age
of 70 years, and after two years' trial, from the use of Messrs. S. and
B. Solomons' newly invented Spectacles; their valuable invention
fully merit the patronage they have received of the Royal Family
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25th Feb, 154 I.—Address,.—Address, Addignton Hall, Lancashire.