The Sun.
London, England, 1824-03-19 00:00:00

BANK OF ENGLAND.

Yesterday a General Half-yearly Court of
Bank Directors was held, for the purpose of declaring the
dividend .for the ensuing half year. The Chairman pro-
posed four per cent., which, after much discussion, was
agreed to, but it seems the show of hands was less numerous
in favour of this dividend than on former occasions. One of
the Stock Proprietors, Mr. Gundry, strenuously urged the ne-
cessity and justice of consulting the Proprietors generally be-
fore the Court decided on measures which affected the interests
of so man individuals. In support of this position he quoted
the 7th of Anne, and the Bye Laws. On the other hand, the
Chairman contended that the Proprietors had uniformly con-
fided their interests to the Directors of the Bank, whose con-
duct had always given satisfaction. Several questions were
put with respect to the present discount, sums lent on mort-
gage, the rate of interest, &c. Distinct and explicit answers
were given to each of these from which it apears the Bank hare
it in contemplation to advance four millions on mortgage at
the rate of four per cent. interest ; that one million and a
half has been already
advanced in portions of from
300,0001., the largest to 10,0001., the smallest sum that
will be given. These sumsare redeemable by the mort-
gager by instalments, on his giving six months notice to
the Bank of his intention. The sum lent, however, we un-
derstand, must be repaid by two instalments. This plan
of
lending appears to have been adopted in consequence of the fall-
ing off of discounts, and for the benefit of country gentlemen.
The CHAIRMAN, on being asked concerning the reduction of
the rate of discount, said there was no measure of the kind in
the contemplation of the Court at present. The amount of the
Bank notes issued is now between 18 and 19 millions.

--
Mr. GuNDa Y proposed an amendment, that five, instead of
four per cent. should be the present dividend, which was nega-
tived. He then demanded a ballot, which was as to, and
Thursday nest was appointed for this purpose.

-
CHAMBER OF COMMERCE IN LONDON.
A Meeting took piece yesterday at the City of
London Tavern of Merchants, Bankers, Ship owners, and
Traders, of the City of London, to take into consideration the
expediency of forming a Chamber of Commerce.
On the motion of Mr. T. WlLsoi,

JOHN SMITA, Esq. M.P. was called to the Chair ; who pro-
ceeded to inform the Gentlemen present, that several months
back a meeting was held, at which it was resolved, that consi-
derable advantage to the mercantile world would arise from the
establishment of a Chamber of Commerce, and that he was an
eye-witness at that time of the very great exertions of several
Gentlemen, and among. others Mr. Hall, who he was fearful
was absent to-day from indisposition. He should not now oc-
cupy the time of the meeting by any discussion on the merits of
the proposition, but should recommend that copies of the Re-
port, which was now laid on the table, should be distributed to
each of the Gentlemen for their consideration, and that another
meeting be convened, at which he trusted that those Gentlemen
who had given the subject their particular attention would ex-
press their sentiments on the expediency of the proposed Insti-
tution.

Mr. WoLLASTOX having risen for the purpose of reading
the Report of the Committee, (which we shall give to-morrow),
Mr. GRENFELL, M.P. suggested that as this meeting was
not called upon to come to any decision, the time of reading the
Report might be saved, which was agreed to, and the Report
was accordingly not read.
Mr. WOLLASTON, in proposing the first Resolution, begged
to preface the motion by a few remarks in explanation of the
merits of the Institution, and stated that although it might be
considered of a mischievous tendency as it placed an arbitrary
power in the hands of individuals, the establishment of a
Chamber of Commerce had been productive of much advantage
at Manchester, Glasgow, Edinburgh, &c. and by its interference
the island of Sincapore was saved to us, which would otherwise
have been lost; and he did not doubt that much general and useful
information would result to the commercial and shipping inte-
rests by the formation of a similar institution in London. He
concluded by moving that the Report of the 28th August last
be printed ; that a general meeting be convened for Thursday
next, at 12 o'clock ; and that copies of the Report be delivered
to the Merchants, Bankers, Ship-owners, &c. of the City of
London.

Mr. G. HERBERT said he should not have troubled the
Meeting with any observations, but from the remarks which
fell from the Hon. Mover of the Resolutions; but while he was
ready to admit there was nothing unfair in the proceedings
of that Gentleman or the obseriationi made by him, still as
their proceedings would go forth in print to the public, he for
one must beg to dissent from the arguments set forth of the
necessity of such an institution.
The Resolution was put by the Chairman and agreed to.
Mr. WALLASTON then moved that a Committee be ap-
pointed, with power to add to their numbers, when he was in-
terrupted by
Mr. TOOKE, who considered such a measure would be ex-
tremely premature till after the discussion had taken place.
Mr. GRENFELL, DI.P., Mr. SMITH, Wharfinger, and Mr.
G. HIBBERT, were of the same opinion; and the latter ob-
served, that although he at present was not disposed to coin-
cide with the measure, he might nevertheless be influenced by
the arguments brought forward at the next meeting to give it
his support; and he did not think it right to call upon Gentle-
men to acquiesce in the forming of a Committee until they had
heard the arguments for and against it. After some further
conversation, in which
Mr. WOLLASTON stated that he did not wish to press any
thing that might be considered premature, and after the obser-
vations which had fallen from Mr. Hibbert, he should with-
draw the resolution.

The CHAIRMAN observed that as next Thursday was a
Court-day at the Bank, which would render it inconvenient to
many Gentlemen to attend, he begged to suggest that some
other day should be named.
Next Thursday se'nnight was accordingly fixed.
Mr. T. WiLsoN, M.P. proposed that as it would be desir-
able that the proposed plan should not appear to have but one
father, Mr. W. Manning, M.P. should he invited to take the
chair at the next meeting, which was agreed to.
Thanks having been voted to the Chairman for his impartial
conduct, and for his uniform exertions in this and every other
instance for the welfare of the commercial interests of London,
he Meeting adjourned.

PARLIAMENT,

HOUSE OF LORDS, Mama( 18.

APPEALS.
Counsel were heard fully in the Scots Appeal, " Dixon v.
W. F. Campbell," of Shawfield, Esq. 31. P.—Interlocutors
affirmed.

Counsel were heard in the Scots Appeal, " Richardson v.
Dowager Countess of Raddington."
Mr. SHIPDEN, from the Commissioners of Dover harbour,
presented accounts of the receipts under the Tonnage Duty
last year.—Laid on the table.

SLAVERY.
Earl SPENCER held two Petitions, praying for the aboli-
tion of Slavery : one from the inhabitants of Amersham, in the
county
.of Buckingham, and the other from those of Dews_
berry, in Northamptonshire. After the manner in which the
question had been taken up and discussed in both Houses, he
hoped it would be met by a similar tone and temper in another
aalldidhethopurgoldtoicted.
He
was
happy
to
find,
from the
be trusted that ultimately much be-
might be long before any good effects
should show themselves,
nqeufiatrtelrvo;
statement of the Noble Earl at the head of the Colonial De-
partment, that distinct regulations had been laid down for im-
proving the condition of the slaves; they were excellent in their
nature, and he hoped would prove beneficial, but nnqiing had
been said to inform their Lordships as to the probability of the
general abolition of slavery. His Majesty's Ministers .had
made no explicit declaration on that point of their views, nor
of those of other countries. The chief object of the measures
now proposed, or to be adopted, seemed to afford greater fa-
cilities for manumission, but not to affect the question of sla-
very in general.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL said that the most proper mode
of extinguishing slavery was to ameliorate gradually the con-
dition of slaves, and that religious instruction was the only
way to do it. The great object of the new regulations was to
draw into operation the physical and moral powers of slaves,
and to place every man in such a situation that he should. he
able to acquire his own freedom, that of his wife, of his chil-
dren, and his other immediate connections. Indeed the first
idea which had forced itself on the minds of his Majesty's Mi-
nisters in framing the regulations, had been to hold out to every
slave the certainty, that by his own industry he might acquire
his freedom and that of the persons nearest and dearest to him.
It would be for Parliament to take further measures, should
those now proposed not be-found to answer the object which
they were intended to effect.
The petitions were then read and laid on the table.
MUTINY BILL.

On the House going into a Committee on the Army Mutiny
Bill,
Earl GROSVENOR objected to the practice of flowing
soldiers, as derogatory to the military character, and calculated
to brutalize the men. It had, he was glad to say, gradually
diminished, and in many regiments had been altogeeher done
away with. Ile was aware of the difficulties with which its total
abolition would be attended, and under existing circumstances
it might be imprudent; but it had been so generally reprobated
that he trusted it would only be had recourse to in extreme
cases. It had been announced in the course of the debate on
Tuesday night, that with regard to the flogging of Negroes,
regulations were to be enforced, by which the mode of inflic-
in.. the punishment would be fixed, and the number of lashes
limited. Ile wished that similar regulations should be
adopted with respect to military flogging, both in the Army
and Navy.
The Army and the Marine Mutiny Bills went then respec-
tively through Committees, and were reported.
The Four per Cents. and the County Jails' Bills were also
committed and reported.
SCOTCH APPEALS.
_

The Earl of LIVERPOOL had a. most important paper to
present to the House. It was the Report of the Commissioners
appointed to inquire into the state of Judicature in Scotland.
He should now move that it be printed, and should take an
to a committee to examine
what Bills
its recommendations, and to should be brought
ffect.—Ordered.
in to carry them into e
early day to move that it be
reportreerred
The Irish Court of Exchequer and the Sugar Bounties' Bills
were read a second time.. ,
PR. ECELII.Nct; OF THE HOUSE.
presented
LORD CHANCELLOR said, that application had
been made by Counsel to be excused from attending that House
of th e the
miißb
on an appeal case to-morrow, on the ground that he should be
wanted in the Vice-Chancellor's Court. He (the Lord Chan-
cellor]
ii s e putto tiattteondthtehiartL°HrodussileiPfisrswt.thaelreairt,whaesar l )
notthe duty of
Counsel
earkrtpoefnitthene CommissionersLiary._i,ai(i
on
of llnquiryE Lon r'
iiq
the a.
State
the table.—Adjourned.

.~"~~.

Several Accounts and other Papers were presented from dif-
ferent Public Offices, and ordered to lie on the table.
HOUSE OF
NEGRO
SLAV E R Y.
Petitions against Negro Slavery were presented by Mr.
COMMONS.
TREMAYNE, for Bodrnin ; front Buckingham, by Mr. FREE-
mANTLE; from Cumberland, by Mr. cuitlvEx ; from War-
wick, by Mr. law LEY ; front Stockport, by 11r. EGERTON ;
and from Hertford, by Mr. N.
,-ALvERT, and were ordered to
lie on the table and be printed.

WOOL DUTY.
Mr. BLACKBURN presented a petition from Lancashire,
table.
against the Exportation of Long Wool.—Ordered to lie on the

Mr. LAWLEY presented a petition from Nuneaton, against
the Duty on Excise Licenses.—
Ordered to lie on the table.
ASSESSED TAXES.
Colonel PALMER preiented a petition front a parish in the
city of Bath, against the Assessed Taxes.—Ordered to lie on
the table.
Col. PALMER also presented a petition from Bath, against
the Hide and Skin Bill:
Mr. HUME spoke against the Bill; and wished to know
who had the charge of it.
Mr. ELLICE spoke in favour of the Bill, so far as it related
to the Repeal of the present Laws.
Mr. Alderman WOOD said an Hon. Colleague of his had
charge of the Bill.
Mr. LITTLETON opposed the Bill; and the petition,
after a few words from Mr. HUME, Mr. S. WORTLEY, and
Mr. BENNETT, was ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. ASHIJRST presented a petition from Oxford against
the Assessed Taxes.—Ordered to lie on the table.
COMBINATION LAWS. _ _ _

Mr. HUME presented a petition from ..he Shoemakers of
Liverpool against the Combination Laws.—Referred to the
Committee on Artizan Laws.

Sir JOHN NEWPORT presented a petition from Dublin
against the Local Taxation of that City.—Ordered to lie on
the table, after a few words from Mr. ELLIS.
IRISH TITHES.

Sir JOHN NEWPORT presented a petition from a Parish
in Cork, against any compulsory clause being introduced in
the Tythe Act for Ireland Ordered to lie oil the table.

LINEN BOUNTIES

Mr. S. RICE presented a petition from the Linen Ma-
nufacturers of Limerick, against the taking off' of the Linen
Bounties. Such a measure, they contended, would be most
injurious by diminishing the Linen Trade, and throwing
many individuals out of employment. A Report made by a
Committee of the house was favourable to the continuance of
these bounties. _ _

Colonel TRENCH. supported the petition, observing that
the repeal of the bounties would be destructive to the Linen
Trade. Ilis opinion was not favourable to bounties in general,
but there was a material difference between not granting a
bounty, and taking one off:
Sir H. PARNELL did not think that the repeal would be
so disadvantageous as had been imagined ; though he thought
it ought to be gradual. He was of opinion that the repeal
would do little More than raise the price of linen. The linen
trade of Ireland he considered as well. established.
Sir J. NEWPORT said the petition was for inquiry only.
This was a reasonable request, and he hoped it would be at-
tended to.

Sir RONALD FERGUSSON said the Linen Manufac-
turers of Scotland had no objection to a gradual repeal of the;
bounty_-

Mr: V. FITZGERALD spoke in favour of the petition.
Ile had that day preiented a Memorial to the Chancellor of the
Lxchequer from the High Sheriff and Grand Jury of the
County ha had the honour to represent against the repeal of the
Bounty. The question as to this manufacture he thought
ought not to be decided by considerations of a general nature,

though, speaking of them generally, they might be perfectly
correct. He by no means wished to support the perpetual
grant of Bounties of this description ; he only wished that there
repeal might be gradual.
Sir R. FERaussox explained.
Mr. C. HUTCHINSON said, he had a petition to present
on the same subject, and took the present opportunity of ob-
serving, that the proposal of the Chancellor of the Exchequer
to take off these bounties had excited considerable alarm. The
'view taken by that Right Hon. Gentleman, generally consider-
ed, was, no doubt, a correct one ; but it should also be con-
sidered, that there were many large establishments and dis-
tricts mainly supported by the bounty.
Mr. MA BERLY spoke in favour of the gradual repeal.
Besides, if the Bounties were taken off, the duty on the raw
material ought also to be taken off.—(Hear, hear !)—He should
at a future day bring this part of the subject before the House.
Sir G. HILL defended the repeal of the Bounties:
The petition was ordered to be printed.
Mr. S. WORTLEY presented a petition from Knares-
borough against the Export of Wool.—Ordered to lie on the
table.
Dr. PHILLTMORE moved for a new Writ for Leitrim, in
the room of Like White, Esq. deceased.—Ordered.
Mr: KENNEDY presented a petition from Ayr against the
Combination Laws.—Referred to the Committee on the Law
of Artizans.

SUGAR DUTY.
Mr. TVG IT3IORE postponed to the 13th of May his motion
for a Committee respecting the Drawback on Sugar.
Sir THOMAS LE TH BRIDGE presented petitions from
Bath and Shepton Nlallett, praying for a further repfal of the
Assessed Taxes, and • expressing their disappointment at the
Chancellor of the Exchequer having proposed so small a repeal.
He still hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would turn the sub-
ject in his mind.

The petitions were ordered to lie on the table.
SMALL DEBTS.

Mr. LINDSAY presented a petition from a place in the
North of Scotland, praying that the recovery of Small Debta in
Scotland might be facilitated.

Mr. KENNEDY supported the petition, which, after a few
words from the Lord Advocate, was ordered to be printed.
In answer to a question from Mr. BARING- as to the course
proposed to be taken respecting the Orders of the Day,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,he should
propose, in the first instance, to go through the Committee on
the Silk Bill ; and as this was not likely to take up much time,
he thought they would be able to receive the Report of the
Committee of Supply.
Mr. BARING said he should have to present a petition from
the Committee Of Silk Manufacturers against the proposed re-
gulations respecting the Silk Duty, and prayinq to be heard at
the Bar, by their Counsel, against those regulations. •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it might
perhaps be more convenient to take the debate on that subject
on the Report, if this course were conformable to the orders of
the House.

Mr. HUME said the Hon. Member was surely not going to
ask the House to hear Counsel at the bar against the principle
of the measure on which they had decided respecting the Silk
Duty.—(A laugh.)
The conversation here dropped.
Col. DAVIES presented a Petition from York against the
Combination Laws.—Referred to the Committee on the Arti-
zan Laws.

IMPRESSMENT.
Mr. HUME presented a Petition from an individual named
Butler, respecting the present practice of Impressment. The
Petitioner had been for many years a Master in the Navy ;
and had therefore considerable experience on the subject.—One
of the principal difficulties attending the manning of the Navy
was, he conceived, the unlimited length of service. The next
was the irregular state of discipline on board the ships ; in
some of which the number of lashes varied for the same
offence. The third difficulty was in the disgust felt by seamen
at being commanded by midshipmen boys. This however he
believed had now been altered. The fourth difficulty lie felt
was, the low rate of pay. He (Mr. Hume) thought the re-
marks of the Petitioner were well worth consideration, par-
ticularly as this was a favourable time for giving them consi-
deration.

Mr. SYKES spoke in favour of the Petition, and thanked
the lion. Winter for Aberdeen for having introduced the sub-
ject to the House.
Sir It. WILSON spoke to the respectability of the Pe-
titioner. .

The Petition was ordered to be printed.
‘4ILK TRADE.

Mr. BARING presented a petition from the Committee of
persons engaged in the Silk Trade of London, praywrinnghbaytsotillblyise.
heard by Counsel against the proposed regulations of' the Silk
Duty. The petitioners expressed their conviction that a per-
severance in this proposal would lead to the ruin of their trade.
This being their opinion, right or wrong, it would be unjust to
pass the measure without hearing them. Their case bad never
yet been fairly stated to the House, and he could not but think
tAhoatti,thew notwithstanding
of t subjectethe llevity
thya
which
hbiecehn dealtirad h
been
oths
shown
illlaodnt.ol.p'rrieesnedo,t hets ehMaeipnebter i
tiofohr, Ah
eb e
trustedrd een, t on
he
Hhiso us
stae t iwnogutlhda tle
noti
partake in that levity ; and would not deny, to this important
The was
question subject, that consideration which they would not withhold from
a Road Bill, although the person advocating the claims of these
petitioners
fullyawianrveolovfed in hisown
nis petitioninabili was
tyto
notone
betwixt do
othenm
justice.e
betwixt free trade and restriction, but betwixt one restriction
and another. It was not whether they should take off restric-
tions as such, but whether they should take off one, leaving
another in full force. Under these circumstances he hoped the
House would hear the petitioners by Counsel whenever it
should be convenient. If the House were to say it would not
hear them at all, they would do that which was most ungracious.
Mr. ELLICE thought it very right to discuss this question ;
but he thought it also his duty to state that the great manufactur-
ing city which he represented (Coventry) was perfectly satisfied
with the arrangements which had been made by his Majesty's
Ministers. They did not, it was true, believe that they would
be able to compete with the French manufacturers, at the end
of the period for the admission of French goods; buti they were
qituei t eh
e g readyge d that tt ho e s
aexperiment y should
oboe
pt rai.retdi
e.
tHo ear!)—
)
re-
solutions lately adopted at the City of London Tavern, upon
this subject. They felt assured, that if their fears turned out
to be well-founded, his Majesty's Government would not re-
fuse to look at the question again. For his own part, however,
he begged to say that he had no doubt of their being able to
compete with the French Manufacturer within the time given.
Sir J. MACKINTOSH took the opportunity of making a
declaration upon this subject, which ill-health alone had pre-
vented him from doing before. He must confess that he could
not, with any regard for consistency, join in the opposition
raised to the measures of his Majesty's Ministers in conform-
ance with the principles of free trade ; because in doing so, he
conceived he should condemn both himself and his friends who
had been for many years complaining that Government were
too slow in adopting those principles ; and they could not there-
fore now say that they were too hasty in the application of them.
Deep reflection, and the experience of his observations, which
from year to year had convinced him of the fatal results of any
deviation from the principles of free trade, had confirmed him
in the propriety of his original opinions. He felt it, therefore,
impossible to say that he adhered to the theory, but was not
content with the application of such principles.—(Hear, hear !)
—lt was important to himself to disclaim such sentiments,
which were both inconsistent with his character and inten-
tions. With respect to the Honourable Member for Taunton
(Mr. Baring), who was well aware that he had a high respect
for him, he must say that he was surprised to hear him make
two complaints which were at variance, as he thought. with each
other. First, he said that the Chancellor of the Exchequer
was too hasty in removing restrictions, and next, that he was
to blame in leaving some restrictions not removed. In other
words, he charged him with cautiously and slowly making a
change from a system of restriction to the only true and sound
system, viz. that which admitted of the free use of industry.—
Both his charges could not be true. He had introduced the
petitioning silk merchants as a sort of Board of Trade, but if
he (Sir .1. Mackintosh) must plead to authority, he confessed
lie was more disposed to plead to the judgment of the Right
Hon. Gentleman opposite. He ltd steadily given his feeb'e
support to every attempt made for the delivery of industry
from those fetters which had hitherto so mainly impeded its
progress. lie believed that as far as concessions from the main
principle could he made, they had been !wide to those peti-
tioners, and if we were to make any request to the Right Hon.
Gentleman, it would be that he Should make no further con.
,cession.—(Hear, hear, hear !)—No one he was convinced kg)
Ins ear more open to the feelings and cornr!aintai of the people
than he did, He would not however advise these petitioners

to send any Counsel to that House. No arguments he was se.
tisfied could change his mind upon the subject, and he thought
it would not be just, under, such circumstances, to encourage
hopes which the result could only dissappoint:4Hear !)
Mr. TIERNEY thought that it did not altogether accord
with those principles of free trade which his Hon. and Learned
Friend (Sir J. Mackintosh) advocated, to exclude any party
from a discussion in which his interests were involved.—(Hear !)
He thought the country under obligations to his Hon. Friend,
the Member for Taunton (Mr. Baring), foe bringing forwaid a
subject in which important interest were so deeply concerned.
No one was more friendly than himself to free trade, and the
readiness with which he had come down to the House to sup.
port the measures of his Majesty's Ministers was a pledge to
that effect. Ile had hailed the speech of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer upon opening the Budget, because it shewed to
him a Chancellor of the Exchequer behaving in a liberal, hand-
some, manly, and noble manner, and also because they had
seen persons in his situation acting far otherwise. He had,
however, done this because he believed the Right Honourable
Gentleman acted in strict contOrmity with the interests of
those parties, with regard to which he had sources of infor-
mation not open to other individuals. So when the Right
Honourable President of the Board of Trade (Mr. Huskin-
son) had stated that two years and a half was the period al-
lowed for the continuance of the restrictions on the Silk
Trade, he wished that period bad been shorter, and he had
given his vote sheerly out of compliment to Government.
But he now found the trade itself praying that the restrictions
might not be taken off in two years and a half, for they were
convinced they would not then be able to compete with the
French Manufacturer. Under these circumstances, he never
could be one to advise the House not to hear one word from
the parties interested on the subject. He was the more
induced to oppose such a course, inasmuch as he was con-
vinced in his own mind that the prohibition would not be taken
off, but that at the end of two years and a half the question
would again arise, whether they should allow the competition
between French and English goods. They had already had the
experience of two or three thousand respectable Gentlemen in
the Silk business bowing to them in the lobby as they passed.
The consequence of this was eventual triumph. That vicious
system of trade which had shackled the industry of the
country for so many years had not a greater enemy than.
himself. But lie thought more substantial good could be done
to the country by taking off some direct taxes which pressed
upon all classes. This would be the beat mode of pre-
paring the way for the reduction of all other duties. It
was singular that none of the interests should desire the re-
moval of restrictions, all declaring that they ware going on
well. The question now was not with reference to the prin-
ciple, but whether there was evidence enough to proceed to
the application of it. He hoped, therefore, the Chancellor of
the Exchequer would have no objection to hear the Petitioners
by Counsel upon any convenient day.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was
necessary for him, after what had passed, to make a few obser-
vations. But first lie must state that it would he ungrateful in
him were he not to acknowledge with thanks the handsome
manner in which the House had received the exposition it
had been his duty to make of the principles by which the
late measures proposed by him were directed. lie must, at
the same time, state that lie could not accept any compli-
ments offered to him at the expence of a Noble Lord who
had been his predecessor. Ile had often been placed in the
anpumts
habrol
ooenelt
eebeee
Gentlemen
painfulwaoppeueaealtlgmniitnetfeti
11allfoconi
fntrnsowidt
thought
another
raioidsdtu Ni
uogft
oniebietl
ieeincnhngf
Lord.—(Hear
ioeve,wtre,aihtadlsas.
ufnora
country
measures,
ton;
insebtdrtai
treerrecmteanl
receive
—lf
e: nothingwlebcyfia.
because
apnliprteiel
sel
ssuethcsnno;hieoduoen could
ehs
believeui
abtsradi
oe-it
on this occasion, as he could truly and confidently state that
e
the soundness of die principles upon which those measures
him (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) equally deserving of
animadversion, :since he, as a Member of the Cabinet, and
especially as President of the Board of Trade, was as much
bound as any one to have done so. And he certainly should
have taken that course, had he thought the circumstances in
which the country was then placed favourable to such mea-
sures ; but at all events it was clear that he was not entitled
to the exclusive compliments of the House upon this subject.
With respect to the question before the House, the Right Hon.
Gentleman oposite (Mr. Tierney) blamed him for not having
paid sufficient attention to the representations of the parties in-
terested in the measures in question. He assured the Right
Hon. Gentleman that had lie been influenced by such repre-
sentations, he should never have brought forward the measures
at all; for all those who had communication with him were
afraid of the proposed alterations. But it had not appeared
to him necessary to enter into a consultation with these par-
ties, so as to constitute them the Judges in the question.—
Then, as to the concessions he had made, so far from being
able to meet the views and wishes of all, he found no two to
agree in the same view. With respect to those who petitioned
on this occasion, he would not go the length to which the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman (Sir James Mackintosh) went, viz.,
that because he was convinced he would not agree to give the
parties an opportunity of stating their case, although lie had
not the slightest notion that his opinion would be changed, vet
he was willing to hear Mr. Harrison, or any other Counsel..—
Although he might not think it wise to incur the expellee of
Counsel, yet he could never consent to lay clown so perempto-
ry a principle as that contended for by the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman. He felt himself bound, however, to say, after
having heard all parties, and well weighed all the contradicto-
ry accounts, these Petitioners would very greatly deceive them-
selves if they conceived any hopes of an alteration of the ar-
rangements already agreed upon. He had, however, no objec-
tion to any motion for the hearing of Counsel.
Mr. WHITMORE hoped the Chancellor cf the Exchequer
would pursue the honourable course he had commenced, winch,
if carried to a conclusion, would render this country more pros-
perous than any country had ever been known to be. An Hon.
Member had spoken of the triumph of the Spitalfields weavers
last Session; but there could be no doubt that the measure of
this year was the consequence of that triumph, as it is called.—
He knew that the head manufacturers looked with the greatest
satisfaction at the present arrangements.
An Hon. .MEMBER, whose name we could not learn, -sup-
ported the prayer of the petition, and expressed his concurrence
in the sentiments entertained upon the occasion by the Hon.
Member for Taunton.

Mr. HUME said 'he believed the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer had acted consistently with the feeling of the trade in the
arrangements he had made with reference'to the silk duties_
He was sorry, however, to see any thing► proceeding which had
the effect of unsettling the opinion of the trade. There had
been a feverishness in the city the whole of this day, arising
out of a report that a change was about to be made in conse-
quence of the presentation of this petition.
Mr. HUSKISSON took upon himself confidently to say,
that there was not the smallest idea of any change in the plan
which he and stated to the House. He hoped therefore that
any feverishness which existed on the subject would subside,
as nothing could be more prejudicial to the interests of the
community.
Lord A. HAMILTON was of opinion that the Bill could
not be carried into effect if the words " uncut silk" were to
in it.

The petition having been brought up, on the question being
put that it be read,

Mr. BARING rose to say a few words in explanation. His
Hon. and Learned Friend (Sir James Mackintosh) had been
somewhat sharp upon him. He had not contended for the
contradictory system he had imputed to him ; but merely that
the system, whatever it was, should be consistent in all its parts.
But the fact was, his Hon. and Learned Friend had imbibed
the popular fashion of the day on the subject of free trade,
anti in reality knew nothing about the matter. The country
might go on in their pursuit of the principles of political eco-
nomy and free trade; but so long as bread was twice as dear
in this country as in those we attempted to compete with, they
would starve with the work in their hands. He had been too
long in that House to care for being abused for his opinions,
and certainly cared the less on this occasion when he saw the
Chancellor of the Exchequer himself a convert to doctrines in
which he had opposed him (Mr. Baring) some years ago. He
thanked his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Tierney) for rescuing the
House from what he conceived would have been their disgrace
had they refused to hear the petitioners.
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH reminded his Hon. Friend
(Mr. Baring) that he had been in the minority. with him on the
question of the Corn Trade, at the same time that he com-
plained of his now treating him as a deserter from his standard,
as well as of the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the
Exchequer) for the manner in which he had received his view-
ing him in the same light. He thought the principles of free
trade should be put in action wherever they could with safety.
But he perfectly agreed with his Hon. Friend in thinking that

the time, blamer, circumstances, and condition, of each in-
terest should be regarded in their approach to a free trade, and.
he believed that the removal, of these restrictions would really'
,promote and accelerate the removnl of all others. He should
not make any opposition to the prayer fur hearing Counsel at
the Bar.

The Petition -was then -read and laid on the table, with an
understanding that Counsel should be heard against the Billon
its canimittarta-morrow.

ASSESSED .TAXES

Mr. MAMMY gave notice, that on Thurs-day,.Ahe 29th
May, he would move for the repeal of the whole of the As-
sessed Taxes. 7—( Hear, hearl)
EVACUATION OF SPAIN.
_ _ _

Lord J. RUSSELL said, that beti;reheProceeded to say any
thing in support of the motion he was about to lay before the
House, he would state that it was not his intention to bring a
charge or accusation against his Majesty's Ministers. His ob-
ject was to bring before the country, and to hear from his Ma-
jesty's Ministers, some explanation of the policy pursued by
this country with reference to Spain. No longer than ten years
ago it had been our policy to protect Spain against her Gallic
neighbours, and now when French troops were pouring in, and
occupying the very spots where so many great battles had been
fought, and holding the very battlements which had cost us so
much blood—St. Sebastian, Cadiz, and other places—it was
impossible that the people of Great Britain should not feel a
-deep interest in this question. He should first endeavour to
skew how this state of things was brought about ; secondly,
the danger to which we were exposed by it ; and thirdly, the
way in which we were to get out of it. The course for Britain
to pursue was described in the words of the poet—
"To threaten bold presumptuous Kings with war, •
And answer with her sword a neighbour's. prayer."
• Instead of this, however, they had ventured nothir.g beyond
a hope when the French entered Spain that some misfortune
would light upon them. It had been stated that our Govern-
inent did not know that the affairs of Spain were to be Can-
vassed at the Congress
.of Verona, and he mentioned this to
shew how steadily and silently the Holy Alliance pursued its
favourite object, the slavery of mankind, while those who
.ought to oppose them were asleep upon their post. The same
-system had been evinced with regard to the Sanitary Cordon,
as it was called, upon which the Marquis de Chateaubriand
had expressed a degree of indignation that the British Cabinet •
..should suppose for a moment there was any ulterior view.—
.-In like manner in the Proclamation of the Duke of Angou-
--leme, in passing into Spain, the Spaniards were told to believe
they only came to give them a Constitution which the Spanish
people desired. The French had found there two great parties.
:The one was the friends of a liberal Constitution, and the other
-those who had robbed on the high Ways, and who feared the Con-
stitution because of its honesty—he meant the Army of the
-Faith—a band of mendicants and robbers fed by the Monks.—
Whatever were the intentions of the Duke of Angouleme
towards Spain, they were supported with so little firmness that
they were entirely unavailing. He had, in short, violated
-every promise expressed or implied. ,The consequence of the
result or affairs in Spain, those men who, during the short
reign of the Constitution, had spoken their opinions freely,
had become known and marked as the objects of persecution.—
In the late conduct of Ministers he saw a most extraordinary
departure from the ancient policy of the country, as never since
.this revolution till now—he might go back still further—had it
:been considered a matter of 'indifference to us whether. or not
-Spain-was under the dominion of France. Spain, if left in pos-
...

.session of her Constitution, it was well foreseen, would, in Caul
-of a new war, have been found on the side of England.—
Hence it became an object with our rival to make the Ca-
-binet of Spain subservient to that of France.—This, he had
no doubt, was the wish of the Holy Alliance, as all the Mem-
"bers of it were much offended with the freedom of debate
.which prevailed in England. The Lord Chancellor was said

to be very sensitive on this subject, but he wst not half so
sensitive as he (Lord J. Russell) believed the Holy Alliance
-to be. • Were proof wanted of this, he would refer to what had
passetlinSwitzerland, Which had been at peace ever since the
treaty of Paris in DILI, vet from Switzerland individuals who
had obtained regular passports had been dismissed at the
instance of Foreign Powers. Such was the course pursued
by Switzerland, which fifty years ago had been described by a
writer to be " a place where a man might criticise things with-
out flattery or fear." If the- Members of the Holy Alliance
acted thus by Switzerland, why did they not do the same by
.England ? It was because they were afraid of her power; for
the little discussions of Switzerland did not annoy them half so
• much as the debates in this country, which made known the
sentiments of the people and those of their representatives to
.the world. The speakers in that House, though much opposed
to each other, all offended the Members of the Holy Alliance,
the .Hons Baronet, the Member for Westminster, the Hon.
. Member for Yorkshire, and the Right Honourable the Secretary
himself, were all considered by - them to be dangerous men
as friends to revolution. In one of the State Papers which de-
fended the conduct of France, in interfering with Spain,
it was set forth that some attacks had been made on the system
=of France by writers in ..Spain. Now in this respect, France
. had -a greater -cause for war with England than she had
-against Spain... A feeling of this sort was manifested, as the
sore= of the French Government never ceased to represent
.England to be vulnerable to attack through Ireland. Many,
• gentlemen accustomed themselves to think that the nations. of,
ttie Continent regarded England with no feelings but those of
-admiration and aratitude. If, however, the conduct of those
;States: were looked into, it would be found that all of them
-Were aiming their darts at this _ country ; and one party in
France, which was daily gaining ground, was constant in its.
attacks on the British Constitution. Austria, whose Cabinet
;;ad been governed by fear for the last 50 years; first of Fredea
rick the Great, then of Napoleon, and now of Russia, was,
pledged to support all the views of the Holy Alliance; and
,Russia, Pursuing her own objects, exercised the most direct influ-
ence inFrance,snding an order to one Minister, and withholding,
;that honour frum a second, because by these means he found they
. were rendered more willing to obey him than their own natural
.sovereigra The Manlius of the Holy Alliance had a force at
-their command of not fewer than a million and a half of men.
Stich being the case it was impossible for him to feel quite as-.
sured that these would not be used to further plans of aggression.
-After the declaration made a short time back on the subject of
their intentions with respect to Spain, how was lie to be satified,
whatever professions they might make that. they would not
act against South America.. He indeed was persuaded that:
they would not send aheir armaments thither, because they,
.knew this could not betione without encountering the hostility;
of this country and of the United States of America, but they,
-would send agents to stir up a civil war, and introduce discord
in the new States. It was not intended to prevent Spain front
reducing her Colonies if she had the means of doing it, but it
'was not fo Ise permitted that. she-Should do this herself while
foreign troops remained in her 'territory. -Let the French'
-troops evacuate Spain, ands then let the whole ,army of Spain • •
.proceed to South America, with King 'Ferdinand at their ilea&
if -he-chose to go ; but he hoped they would not allow the French
to attack their colonies under, false colours, by sending forth a
-Spanish army while French troops, remained in -Spain. The
-papers laid before the House by the Iligitt lion. Gent. proved
that this Government had in effect ihund it necessary to say
you cheated—yoti. betrayed—you took us in on false pretences,
and we.can confide in_ .yousno more., This feeling was mani-
fested.in.the Papers, and he called Awn those who entertained.
it not to abandon it—not to let the Continental Powers pursue
-their "schemes unopposed by •this,cOuntry. The Noble. Lord,,
-after come further observations, exalting the conduct and oba
jeCtof the South Americans, and condemning the principles
/and the actions of the Members of the Holy Alliance, concludedi
Thy moving;--" That an, humble Address should be presented tce

lii& lilaje:y praying that he .would be graciously pleased to.
give directions-that copies or extracts from all communications:
from France respecting the evacuation of Spain by the French
army; should be laid before the House." •
S:r R. WILSON seconded the motion. He felt it to be his
doty td support the Noble Lord on this occasion, which he con-,
sidered to be one of no small importance, as the debate of the,

evening went to affect. in •some degree ten millions of souls.
in Spain, and several millions in Portugal. He. agreed ge:
-nerally 'with the sentiments ,of .the 'Noble 'Lord, and thought,
la a man could Ajar from the:sentiments, he had . express .:(1 on

the subject of the aggression against Spain—an aggression of
which the StledeST seemed but to aggravate the horror, and;
enormity ; and he agreed in the opinion which 7had been ex-
pressed as to ti,e coursetakew by the CounselC of Russia,.
which seemed to menace a'.blow at the power, the honour,'

and the interests of Great Britain. lie had read the Papers
which had been laid on the .table of the House, and ad-.

mired. the spirit 'Which generally prevailed .in them, but
had looked with considerable jealousy at some passages. -
had heard that Spain had agreed to make Great Britain arbiter
on the differences existing between her and her Colonies, and

that a, Minister was to come hither from Spain to meet nego-
ciators from South America. • If this were founded on the prin-
ciple that Spain was to be allowed some mercantile advantages,
in the first instance, he thought the principle objectionable,
.unless the evacustion.of Spain by .the French Were secured.—
What he wished for Spain was, that she should be left to regu-
late her own affairs, and then the King would, be compelled to
have recourse to measures of conciliation, or ;to descend from
the throne which he would be no longer. worthy. to fill. H 9
could state that Ferdinand, when he was at liberty, the day,
before he proceeded to Port St. Mary had, spontaneously, of
his own free will, declared in the presence of-General Alava
and others that he would offer a General. Amnesty in order to
guard against all political re-action, and also that till pecuniary
engagements should be faithfully observed. He then said though
he could not pledge himself to the form of the Constitution
which he might find it necessary to issue from the capital, yet
convinced that Spain could only be governed by a representa-
tive system--a representative system it was his intention to

grant. Thishaving been said spontaneously by Ferdinand, he
(Sir R. Wilson) thought at present they had aright to regard him
as a captive monarch, and consider that it was the French alone
who had, he thought, prevented him from fulfilling the promise
which he had made. The Right Honourable Gentleman had
said he should deplore the immediate evacuation of Spain, if it
could take place to-morrow, on the score of humanity. Ile
wished to know how far this wish extended ? Whether it look-
ed but to the preservation of peace, or to the restoration by the
King of Spain, of-something like the British Constitution ?
Wishing to have dtii regard for the interests of humanity, he
felt that there was such a thing as a belligerent humanity, and
that a time must come, and who would not wish to see it, when
humanity must partially suffer that a nation might recover its
rights ? He took a view of the proceedings at Verona in 18:22,
anti of the feelings with which they had been regarded. lie
wished that England had not gone to Verona, or had ab-
stained from making a declaration of the course which she
intended to pursue. He would merely have protested against
the war with Spain, and reserved to ourselves to take that
course which our interests might require, and then if France
had gone into the war she must, he would have told her,
with a knowledge of our feelings being hostile to her
views, and also with a knowledge of the fact that we consi-
dered it to be our duty to assist the oppressed when we could.
Our declaration of neutrality had relieved France from much
embarrassment and aprehension, and had enabled her to do
that which decided the fate of Spain, by combining maritime
operations with her military movements. She had thus been-
enabled to blockade St. Sebastian and St. Antonio, to send a
squadron to cruize off Cadiz, and to dispatch half a dozen
frigates to Gibraltar to act against Alicant, Carthagena, and
Barcelona. Had England takes a different course, would the
French have dared to do this, and to board even our ships as
they had done, when on their way to our own dependencies ?
When.the neutrality of this country was declared, the machi-
nery of the Court and ,Monks of Madrid was immediately set
at work, and the treasons of Morino, Ballasteros, and Abisbal
immediately followed. Despondency then fell on the Constitu-
tionalists, and the shipwreck of public credit and general dis-
organization ensued. The Constitutional Leaders, though not
the best statesmen, were among the best hearted men in the
world, and were entitled to our support, because they were the
friends of civil and religious liberty. Some said that the Spanish
Code was one of intolerance; but those who framed it felt,
that if civil liberty were secured religious freedom must follow.
France had felt this so far that the war which she had un-
dertaken partook of the character of a religious crusade. The
French Church had thought the intolerant Church of Spain in
danger, and Austria and Russia had felt anxious On 'the same '
subject. He would not say that the defence of Spain deserved
all the admiration which some of the previous exertions of the
Spaniards had won, nor would he assert that it had proved so
Satisfactory as it had been hoped that it would be found ; but he
still contended, under all the circumstances, that the Misfor-
tunes which had fallen on the Spaniards did not annihilate their
claim to our syrripathy and regard. If he spoke what he thought,
he could not say the previous governments had done their duty,
as they had deprived the nobles of their privileges ; they had
deprived the clergy of half their tithes; and, to supply the
climax, they had mode war on that very army by means of
which their authority had been established. This last step
he believed had been taken. with a view of conciliating the
Holy Alliance. He could riot better spew what a state Spain
had been in at the time of the invasion, than by describing the
situation of Cadiz when surrendered. The lines round Cadiz
were twenty-five miles in circumference, and were considered
to. require for their perfect defence an army of from 20 to
25,009 men, even when defended by superior naval means.
When the French came last against it, after the taking of the
Trocadero, where 1,200 men were lost, the Spanish force was
reduced from 9,700 to 7,500 men. There was no chevaux de
frize about the place, and on the day of the surrender there
were fifteen dollars in the Treasury. When the bombardment
took place no disorder. was seen, men, women, and children
came forward to encourage each other, and upon the whole he
maintained the Spanish character had not been rendered un-
worthy of our esteem.. The Spanish Government had been
censursd for deposing Ferdinand. That measure had only been
resorted to in order to save the King's life, for Ferdinand having
resolved to give himself up to the French when at Seville, it was
the opinion of General Alava and the whole of the Cortes that the
step which had been taken was necessary, to prevent asanguinary
act of vengeance on the part of the people. He commented i
with severity on. the Various artifices used by France, anti on the
conduct of the Duke D'Angouleme, who had refused the offered
mediation of England at Cadiz, and subsequently given up to the '
faries of " the faith," the brave but unfortunate Riego. The
Duke had surrendered Riego, though it was known that he
had twice saved the life of the King at Seville and at Cadiz.
Riego had perished; but his name would live in the hearts of
thousands, while that of the Duke of Angouleme, and of all his
murderers, would descend to posterity with execration. It had
been rumoured that Riego's life was forfeited by his having
married within the degrees of consanguinity. This was a ca-
lumny, as no such charge appeared in the indictment which had
been preferred against him. He hoped this country was about
to be placed by the Right Hon. Gentleman in that situation
which she ought to occupy in the face of the world. He did
not call on the Right' Honourable Gentleman to gp to war.—
Without doing that, means might be found to defeat that
mighty confederacy, the Hely Alliance—against the liberties of
Europe. That House and all Europe must know that the design
of that eonfederacy—that monstrous incubus of modern 'policy,
was solely to oppose the. liberties and civilization of mankind.
Hitherto he had not touched on any thing which concerned him
personally, not that he shrunk from any responsibility which
alight attach to his doing so, but he owed to himself from that
tribunal whence his voice would be heard by the proudest of
his persecutors to repel the charges preferred against him, to
refute •the slanders, and vindicate his honour.—(Hear, hey; !)
The Honourable Gentleman then proceeded to describe the
services which had obtained for him those orders of which he
had recently been deprived. One of them had been for par-
, ticipation in a service, which (he would say it) was for dar-
ing enteiprise in the plan, for fortitude in the execution of
it, and for brilliancy of success not exceeded by any thing that
occurred in the course of the war. He then described the pe-
rilous situation in which a body of troops had been unexpect-
edly placed before ,two French divisions. The charge was tre-
menuous, but the enemy gave way, and the fruit of the vic-
tory was the :rescue of the Emperor of Austria from a situation
of great. dahger. The IlroPeror' in consequence, sent him an
honorary medal, lent nfterwardsfinding that he could give the
Order of Maria Theresa, .11e sent it, with a patent of Nobility,
and wrote a letter, desiifing.him to keep them as a. memorial of
his approbation and lasting gratitude. The next was the Order
of Ste George, Which, in requital of his exertions, the Emperor
of. Russia had taken from Isis own neck and placed over his—
an honour, which at that time no officer had reedited. The
next Order he had obtained fin his exertions .at the battle of
Dresden. It was his good fe;rtune to be the first to mount 'the
wall, in doing which he lost the Order
,of Maria Theresa. The
Emperor, to requite him, sent him another Order with that
which he had lost, and repeated the, assurances of his eter-
nal gratitude: .The next Order was the *Spread Eagle of Prussia,
given for Ids services at Leipsic. These services he described,'
and the other distinctions which he' had received. Why, lie
wielied to. know, had 'they been ivithdraven ? Was it because
he favoured a cause with which they had no more to do than !
the Grand Seignior had with. what he, was saying ? Was it for
saving the forfeited lives of his fellow-creatures, or was it that
lie had given to the King, whose army lie had been invited
to cohimand, a.promise that he and his family should be pro-
tected; which pledge lie had proved: would be redeemed ; was
it fbr any of those offences that lie had been pursued ? Under'
all the circumstances he fearlessly appealed to the House, whe-
ther, if the Allied Sovereigns had been able to take the insignia
from his dress, it had been in their power to put the stamp of
shame on his brow.—(Hear, hear !)—He would still, as he
had hitherto done, speak of them while they adhered to their
present system as being, in his judgment, enemies of the;
human race ; but he would not use harsher terms than were
necessary. it was Isis duty to speak in respectful terms of
the King of Portugal, a Monarch vilsons he believed to be
".. more sinned against than sinning." To that Sovereign
Ise had sent the Order he had received from him, and six
weeks afterwards he saw an edict depriving him of it as being
a public disturber, Which edict was anti dated two days be-
fare the time of his sending it the King. He now came to
speak of. the outrage committed against his children. He had
two, who coming from a neighbouring country, were de-
tained at Calais for twenty-four hours. Their perthit was
regularly made out, their luggage on board, and at the
instant when they were stepping into the ship, and not before,
they were taken into custody, and conducted as criminals to'
the Court-house. There both their persons and their baggage
were searched. Nothing was found to justify their detention,
but the Captain had been told to sail without them. He un-
derstood the French Government, on being written to on this.
Subject, had answered, that what had been done was in conse-

quence of poSitive information that these children were made
the instruments of carrying on a private correspondence. Ile
did not know what information the French Police 1..4t1 received.

but if it were meant to be implied that they assisted in
carrying on a secret political correspondence, he would say
the assertion of the French Police was a falsehood. He knew

nothing, of any such , correspondence, . and could have been
content that all his leiterS,should pass open through the world.
.The papers, had the children been the 'bearers of any, might
have been seized as they,came from their hotel. But this was

not the object. Th'ei were to be allowed to proceed to the
ship, that their feelings might be mortified by seeing them-
selves left as criminals, and; he might add, as orphans in a
foreign land, exposed to all the indignities attendant on such
a situation, and surrounded by a crowd to witness their dis-
tress. Another, part of the conduct, of the French Govern-
ment was most infamous. A female who attended his chil-

dren desired to be searched, that it might be known the in-
formation received was wholly unfounded, but the officers
had orders not to let her be searched. Had it been really
believed that a secret correspondence was carrying on, would
such a course have been taken? The act he thought most
unmanly and base. Had any apology been offered he should
have been silent, but this not having been done, he must
consider that his children had sustained a most ignoble and
cowardly attack. The Right Hon. Gentleman, who felt as a
Gentleman, would make allowances for his feeling on this
occasion. He applauded the spirit with which he had acted,.
and could not desire that. the Right Hon. Gentleman should
do more than he had done on the occasion.
Mr. LITTLETON said, that he could fully allow for the
feeling under which the Gallant Member had acted, and con-
sidered his conduct to afford one of the brightest modern ex-
amples of courage, gallantry, and chivalry. No man had a
better right to exclaim against the insulted honours of Spain
than he who had so gloriously contributed to their support.—
(Cheers from both sides of the House.)--The lion. Member
contended at some length, that the Noble Lord could derive no
advantage by the motion if complied with ; because he refused
belief to whatever assurances might be given on the part of
France. He concluded by moving an amended resolution to
the effect that the House being satisfied with the principles of
sound policy which guided his Majesty's councils in the late
hostilities between France and Spain, and considering the de-
clarations which had been made by France upon the subject,
saw nothing in the present circumstances to call upon the
House to express any apprehension of the permanent military
occupation of the Spanish territory by France.
Mr. GOOCH seconded the Amendment, and said that the
conduct of Spain had clearly proved her unworthy the assist-
ance of this country.
The motion, with the amendment, having been put from the
chair, no Memberpresented himself to the House, and strangers
were ordered to withdraw, when
Mr. Secretary CANNING rose, and said that lie had natu-
rally waited till the last moment at which any Member could
deliver his sentiments to the House, before lie could persuade
himself that a motion brought forward with so much of menace
and preparation, and after the fate with which one hapless
motion had been doomed to the sacrifice, that this should in its
turn be sacrificed to the same inconceivable neglect. After
that respectable victim had been devoted upon the altar, the
common boast of his friends was, that the great struggle was
yet to come, and that it would not have been prudent to break
the effect of the grand and triumphant effort. He could not
therefore expect that this mighty contest was to end where he
found it was about to end, and that an amendment like that
moved by his Honourable Friend should be suffered to pass
without a struggle. But it was impossible to regard this
last attempt of the series—he begged pardon, it might not
be the last—this third attack, in any other light than as an
endeavour to take back something of that approbation of
the conduct of the Government which the former efforts of
the other sido had provoked from the House, and to dis-
turb that unanimous satisfaction and approval with which the
whole country regarded it. Every one would remember the
prophetic shouts of triumph by which the motion of last year
was
.preceded, when the first regular attack was made upon
Ministers;. They were to be perfectly annihilated. Good God !
after the day of battle their very remains were to be lost, and
their weeping disconsolate friends were to seek their ashes
in vain. The hour arrived, and never was discomfiture so
complete—never was defeat so signal. There did not exist
in the annals of Parliament, search where they would in any
age, the record of a defeat so inglorious ; there was none a
thousandth part so great, if compared with the anticipations
and the vauntings which preceded the encounter. After this
decision upon the question of the war, parts of its conduct
were taken as the subject of hostile attack, and a Noble Lord
opposite brought forward, in what he (Mr. C.) conceived to
be a very good speech, the manner in which this country had
observed. Its professed neutrality. And now, to-night, the
Noble Lord called upon the House to 'adopt a measure upon
the subject of the occupation of Spain by France. No man,
he believed, could ever conceive that a permanent occupation
of Spain was intended, or would be permitted ; but when the
war had been once commenced, there was likewise no man
who did not see that there must be an occupation for a certain
period. The question, therefore, now was, whether the time
and the circumstances had arrived under which the Noble Lord
could make out a case that called upon the House for an ex-
pression of opinion as to the evacuation by the French troops.
His Hon. Friend, who moved the Amendment had truly said,
that if the Noble Lord was of opinion that the occupation
of Spain was continued too long, the motion was manifestly
unequal to his purpose. The course for him to have pursued
was, that of moving an Address to the King, for an application
to the King of France for the withdrawing of his army. The
the e
N laid
obl e beforeijord
had
de
laid flo soe w. 'nhye
Noble Lord set out with :Baying that he would believe no as-
n
surances of the King of France, and concluded with asking that
such
s et ainostnsaur‘ryvaans ce should
,whethers first
ground
sup-
posing them to exist. He was prepared to argue the gum tion
either upon the supposition that there were such assurances,
or that there were not. He would suppose that the Govern-
ment were in possession of one, two, three, or a series of such
papers, and that thej were anxously looking forward to the
retrieval of the French troops. %neat would be the use of pro-
ducing them when the Noble Lord-would say he would not be.
lieve one word they Contained ? Supposing them not to exist,
because they bad never been asked, how should he then meet
the Noble Lord's demand ? Why, by stating that in the ne-
gociations between EnAland and France, there were three re-
cognized conditions- tirst, That Portugal should not be at-
tacked ; second, That there should be no interference with
South America ; and the third was, That there should be no
ermanent occu of Spain. Two of these questions had
pas.ed ; and if in the result it had been found that France had
ation
duped and deceived In, then there would be a ground to suspect
thatthesGusopviecrionnilifid llthd connived at such deceit, and a rea-
sonable distrust might be entertained upon the
third. But if; on the Contrary,
the there had been no interference
with Portugal—if Papers relating to South America had
given satisfaction on all hands (and every opinion which he
had
ythtoe
dgoooobdtfothrt to bear concurred in the satisfaction ex-
pressed
same promises, as relating to another ques-
tion, and to call
for further assurances ? Of the three condi-
tions, two having s"satisfactorilyaetorily issued from the trial, the House
had a right to confide in
the Government, and not press upon
them prematurely for information with regard to the other.
However he might expose
himself to the charge of credulity
and nevertheless declare verily and in sin-
cerity as a Minister and as
an individual that he believed France
tobetaot ridicule, he
en
moment anxious
oxious for the evacuation of Spain. He
was also quite satisfied in his mind, that if it were put into his
hands to say whether France should march out to-morrow, he
In justice he would say that whatever
tranquillity, and safety .in Spain, was ow-
ing to h wasof order,
of the French Army. Carefully affirming
sthheorueld t note consent.
presence
that these acknowledgements
as to the vicious character of the
ements altered no opinion which he
originally entertained
aggression, as an honest' man he must declare that no ex-
ample could be found for such conduct on the part of an in-
vading army. He did not believe there was an instance in
history where even the arm, of an Ally, excepting Great
Britain, had passed through a foreign country inflicting
so little misery. Nay, it was not only an example of re-
fraining from doing ill,
but the presence of the French army
had been productive of
the most important good to the
Spanish people. That the French Government were anxious
for the evacuation he was convinced. If it were fitting, in..
deed, he could now state the period at which they hoped to
effect it ; and it was one infinitely shorter, he was afraid, than
could possibly be adopted.
,But he believed there did exist on
the part of France a sincere,intention to evacuate the Spanish
territory upon the day fixed, if it should be found practicable.
He knew what was most forward in every British mind—
the occupation of Cadiz. Upon: this part of the question the
'gallant General opposite had given him the means of supply-
ing an answer. Ile had stated that to occupy Cadiz for a
military purpose required 25,000 men. Now he was sure that
France had no such force in Cadiz. There was not half the
French army there, and 25,000 men was more than half the
French army. Nay, he believed there was not the half of
25,000 men in that fortress. It should be remembered that
Cadiz had been the birth-place and support of the Constitution
—upon whose merits he would not say a word—and had been
erected into a sort of rival capital by that party. It was there-
fore necessary, for the sake of repressing faction that there
should be some occupation of so important a place. The
strength of Cadiz was materially connected with the possession
of Badajos. He spoke the opinion of the most consummate
General of.the age when he stated that a Commander ought
not to consider himself safe in Cadiz unless he also occupied
Badajos. But the charge was, that the French being hi pos-
session of Spain, all its miseries and distractions continued.
It was true that the most rancorous feelings existed between

parties, and there was this singularity in the situation of the
French. Instead of being the oppressors of those whom they had
subdued, they had to restrain those whom they came to assist and
to whose hands they restored a power which threatened to be-
come, without controul, the instrument of persecution. He had
hopes at one time that the Government of that country would
adopt wiser and sounder principles, but he feared that every
post diminished their strength.' If it could be brought to a
better sense of action, he believed France would wish to have

the opportunity of withdrawing, and he was sure this country
would not be backward in promoting that object when its safe-
ness became apparent. He believed France to be as ready to
withdraw her armies as the Noble Lord was to see them retire.

When upon a former occasion, a question was raised for the
House as to the manner in which this country preserved her
neutrality in the contest, he took no part in the discussion which

terminated in so extraordinary a manner. He would now touch
I upon it to shew the preservation of that neutrality, on the part
of the Government, was not so easy as some Gentlemen con-
ceived it to be ; very considerable impediments having been
thrown in the way by some of the most ardent sticklers for a
neutral course. With all the feelings of regard which no political
differences could remove, and with the highest admiration of
the motives that prompted him, his Hon. Friend opposite (Sir
R. Wilson) must allow him to say nevertheless, that he had been
one of the greatest impediments in the way of neutrality. The
Noble Lord, too, was *an enormous breach of neutrality.—
(Shouts of laughter.)--The Right Honourable Gentleman pro-
ceeded to quote a passage from Vattel, shewing that interna-
tional law admitted not the interference of private persons be-
longing to foreign nations. The Hon. General, as a private
individual, did certainly appear in hostile array upon a part
of the Spanish coast, and announced that he was. to be fol-
lowed by 10,000 men. He (Mr. C.) knew very well that the
men did not go. But then the interfence of the Honour-
able General drew the war into that part of the country where
it otherwise would not have penetrated.. Now,. all who, like
him, were liable to the visitation of certain diseases, knew
very well that a plaister applied .to the foot would bring the
gout down from any other part-of the system.—(A. laugh.)--
So his Hon. Friend had been the blister to this part of the
country.—(Laughter.)—The consequence of this interference
was, that the Government felt themselves bound to explain upon
this subject to the Court of France. That Government did not re-
monstrate upon the subject, but for that reason he felt the more
anxious to offer the explanation.—(Hear !)—Thus they were re-
duced to the necessity of coupling their remonstrances with ex-
cuses, and of offering explanations when they ought only to
have been seeking them.—(Hear, hear !)—He thought those
who were foremost to censure the Government for not taking
a high tone, ought at least to have taken care that they gave
them nothing for which to apologise; that when they required
them to bluster, they should have given them nothing which
required extenuation.—(Loud cheers.)—He had felt it incum-
bent upon them to make these explanations, and he would tell
the Honourable General what he said upon the subject. In a
communication to Sir C. Stuart, he told him that he could not
disavow in too strong terms all participation in, or approval of
his conduct. He had, however, not been careless of his lion.
Friend's personal safety, for he added that service as a volun-
teer in a foreign war was not unlawful in the subject of a neutral
state ; that it had at all times been allowed, nor had at any
time exposed such person to penalty or prejudice.—(Loud.
cheers.) Among the difficulties which had arisen in the endea-
vour to preserve an honourable and satisfactory neutrality on
the part of this country, out of the conduct of his Honourable
Friend, it was not the least inconvenience that it had subjected
his Government to the humiliating necessity of making such a
disavowal.—(Cheers.)—The consequence necessarily was, that
the Government found itself fettered and restrained in its march,
and unable to assume the commanding attitude to which its
own upright and candid measures entitled it. " But," con-
tinued the Right Honourable Gentleman, " my Honourable
Friend was not the only person whose interference was con-
spicuous, as I have before had occasion to remark.—(As`
laugh.)—But this other case did not reduce us to the necessity '
of explaining to the French Government. Another luminary
arose, and although not attended by so much military effect,
yet, as lam intbrmed, with, to the full, as much of military •
intention. I should not state these circumstances to the House

were it not in the discharge of my duty, and that I had au-
thority for the statements I am about to make. Some time
about the middle of last July, as I am credibly informed, the
heavy Falmouth coach—(great laughter)—the heavy Falmouth
coach—(repeated laughter)—was observed travelling to its usual
destination with more than its usual celerity, having two inside
passengers. The one a Lady of very considerable dimensions,
the other a Gentleman chivalrously carrying out the succour
of his weight to the sinking Constitutionalists of Spain.—(Loud
laughter.)—As I have likewise been informed by the van of that
day a conveyance for the more bulky articles, not of the human
species, there went down a box of meet portentous character
and size. I know not whether like the Magician's, it possessed
the power of transporting itself to distant places, at the will
of its owner,—but it contained the uniform of a Spanish Ge-
neral, and a helmet considerably inferior in size to the fa-
bled helmet of the Castle of Otranto.--(Continued laughter.)—
The idea of going to the relief of a blockaded fortress in a
light horseman's uniform, chewed that however large was the
Noble Lord's breach, it was by no means so skilful a one as
that of the Hon. General. However, go he did ; and about
this time the force which never existed but upon paper was
expedted. I suppose the King and the Cortes thought it was
now at hand, but I know not how they were informed of
the Noble Lord's approach, unless it was in the language of
a very witty and illustrious ancestor of his Georg; Duke of
Buckingham, in his excellent farce of the Rehearsal. When
King Prettyman and King Usher are besieged, a man enters
and whispers to them, " The army's at the door, but in dis-
guise, and would bespeak a word with both your Majesties."
—( Loud and continued peals of laughter.)—The Right Honour-
able Gentleman then proceeded to say, that events soon ter-
minated the war, and whether the Noble Lord threw his weight
into the sinking scale of the Cortes or not, he could not under-
take to say. If individuals would make enterprises that em-
barrassed the proceedings of the Government, and shackled
their exertions to uphold the character and the interests of the
country, they must not expect to escape observation. The
Noble Lord who brought forward the present motion, had
stated a proposition, that if while France held p9ssession of
Spain, any army should sail from that country to South Ame-
rica, it must be considered as a French force. Now he was
not indisposed to admit this as a question of degree. If, while
France occupied the Spanish territory, any extensive levy
of Spainsh troops was made for such a purpose, that he
conceived would be a proper subject for enquiry and
explanation. But what they now had to do, was to look at the
case as it stood. They had to determine whether there was any
thing in the distribution of the Spanish forces, or in their qua-
lity—lie was convinced there was nothing in their councils
which warranted the slightest suspicion of any such pros-
pective views. lie was satisfied that such a course would
not be consistent with the policy of the French Government.
There was less difference than Gentlemen seemed to imagine
between the views which France entertained towards Spain
and those which were supported by this Country. They ap-
proximated much more nearly than those of other powers.—
He was convinced that France had no idea of a reconquest
of South America on the part of Spain, and that she knew it to
be impossible. For other countries to think of doing it was out
of the question; they never could possess the power. He
thought the Noble Lord had failed to shew any Parliamentary
grounds upon which his motion could stand, and his lion.
Friend (though it did not become him to say so) had only done
justice to the Government when lie proposed to meet suspicion
unjustly charged by a declaration of confidence. If that con-
fidence had been earned, the withdrawal of the suspicion would
not be enough. It was not, therefore, claiming too much, when
they asked the House to do them a further justice in saying that
it confided in their further conduct.—(Great cheering.)
Sir R. WILSON and Mr. Secretary CANNING mutually ex-
plained.

- Sir J. MACKINTOSH expressed a satisfaction at the just
and generous manner in which the Hon. Member for Stafford,
and the Right .Hon. Gentleman had acknowledged the conduct.
of his Hon. and Gallant Friend. He thought the Right Hon.
Gentleman had been indulging in imaginary triumphs; and
that in amusing the House with the facetious part of his Noble
Friend's journey, he had omitted (from a want of knowing the
circumstances no doubt) to acknowledge the glorious task of
saving from the dun neon, and perhaps the scaffold, such men
as Arguelles, and the patriots who had suffered the deepest
misery in the cause of freedom, and their unhappy country.
If the Right Hon. Gentleman could persuade the' House that
France had given up guidance and dictation in Spain, he
would do miracles. The proof that Spanish troops were sent to
South America, could not be found in any papers before Parlia-
ment. If any body of Spanish troops were sent to South
America, the measure could only come from France. The
presence of French troops in Spain afforded the Government
of Ferdinand the opportunity of sending out men to attack the
Colonies, and the object of his Noble Friend's motion was to
ascertain whether any information of such an intention on
the part of Spain had reached his Majesty's Ministers. It
was said, why did the Noble Lord make a motion express-
ing distrust of France ? His Noble Friend was justified. in
calling for papers, which might justify or allay suspicion with
respect to France. It was not with a view to arraign the con-
duct of the King's Ministers that the motion was made. His
Noble Friend in his speech had declared he had no such inten-
tion. It appeared to his Noble Friend that France had hostile
intentions towards the inteitst of commerce, and when he called
for information, it was supposed he impugned the conduct of
Ministers. A short answer was consequently given in a style
peculiar to his Right Hon. Friend. That was not the old con-
stitutional mode of meeting such a motion. The Hon. and
Learned Gentleman conceived that it ought to meet the ap-
probation of the House.

Lord J. RUSSELL rose to reply. It was not his intention
to occupy the attention of the House long. The Noble Lord
observed, that it was too common, when motions were made
for papers to hear a refusal mixed up with praise of Ministers.
The amendment moved by an Honourable Member was, in his
view, unimportant. He no disposition to try the numbers
in the House, and certainly should not press his motion to a di-
vision. His object had been to ascertain the views of the
French Government, and not to cast blame on his Majesty's
Ministers. The Noble Lord's motion was then negatived with-
out a division, and the amendment carried.
PRISON DISCIPLINE.
Mr. Secretary PEEL moved that a Select Committee be

appointed to consider the laws relating to Prisons, and report
thereon to the House.—The motion was agreed to.

THE NEW LAW COURTS.
Mr. BANKES, after a few observations, moved that a Select
Committee be appointed to examine accou'nts, and the expence
incurred in building Courts of Justice in Palace-yard, and that
a plan be furnished thereof.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he bad
no notion that the course of business that evening would have
enabled his lion. Friend to bring on his motion. Hit was the
same to his Honourable Friend, he could wish it postponed t°
another day.

Mr. BAS'KES found himself pressed in point of time. His
Right Hon. Friend would see by the haste with which the
building was going on that the timber would be soon laid if'
that part which he considered unfit consistent with public taste
to stand. He suspected that some hint had been given to ace'
lerate the work.

. _
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. did not itn;
puce any blame to his Right Hon. Friend for the, course he had
taken, but if his Right Hon. Friend supposed any instruction
had been given to- accelerate the work, he could assure him se'
veral Gentlemen of the legal profession pressed for expedition
in-the work, on the ground that great inc9tivenience had nc,
curred from the want of Law • Courts: No order had since
been given to hurry on the work. He thought there might be
a suspension of part of the work.for• two or three- days t) afford
his Right Hon. Friend an opportunity of repeating his motion'
In the then state of the question he should vote against th'
motion. He did not think there was any reason for pullin;
the whole building down. •
Mr. BANKES did not wish to pull down the whole.
On the suggestion of the CHANCELLOR of the Excia QUO'
the motion was then postponed to Tuesday.

UNION DUTIES.

The House went into Committee on the Union Duties Act.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said heliaa
a resolution for repealing the remainder of the Union Duties.
Last year some of these duties were repealed, and others pro-
spectively repealed. The proposition made last year had beer'
opposed as a matter which could not be carried into effect ; d'e
repeal had been found practicable: The Right Hon. Gentle;
man moved that the said duties on certain goods, wares, and
merchandize, should cease and determine.
Mr. HUAIE commended the repeal cf. the Union Duties as
a measure he in 1820 -endeavoUred to bring about. He el''
pressed a Hope that the Chancellor of 'the .Exchequer would
not Jet any popular clamour check him in his career for the
benefit of commerce. He was convinced the silk trade nest
year would derive increased prosperity from the late repeal
of duties.

Mr. V. FITZGERALD said, that he was requested hY
certain Army Clothiers in Ireland, to represent that the Right
Eton. Gentleman would greatly promote the interest of that
class, by taking off the duty on stock in hand.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not think
there was any ground for adopting the plan suggested.
The Resolution was then agreed to, the House resumed, and
the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow.
The Penitentiary Convicts' Bill, after a conversation between
Sir T. Baring, Mr. Dawson, Alderman Wood, Mr. Holford,
Mr. Gilbert, and Mr. Mann, was read the second time.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the
House Adjourned at a Quarter past Twelve o'Clock.