The Sun.
London, England, 1823-02-22 00:00:00

part cif ptilitical econotniets, it might fairly be suspected that
many wished there was no such a being within these walls as a
political economist.e(Alaugh.),-Istut after thesound, eensible,
anti able speech which they had heard this night from, the
Right Hon. Gentlemen (the Chancellor of the Exchequei), it
might-be questionable with mottnif notes% whether sound po-
litical economy were not in a statesmarna great public blessingl
It was quite clear that there was .a very considerable surplus
now at the dtepoial of Government. The Riethl Hon. Gentle:.
ruin said, it• amounted to 7,00,0001. So_ tar he must differ
with him, more particularly with respect to the shifting, as it
had been called, of 'weight, which he considered, no more
than shifting the responsibility, or paying out of one hand into
another. Thue he had caul that 2,000,0001. was to be paid by.
the country on fie acme of pensions, whilst they had received
4,600,09 t 1. on that account. 'lnstead, then, of taking the saving
tut high as the Right Hon. Gent., he would take it that the
country was relieved- at present to the extent of 2,000,000/.
on the head of the dead weight. Ile went along with the
Right Hon. Gent. to the full extent of his observation on the
head Of the Sinking Fund; but then lie was of opinion,
decidedly, -that if tie did retain is Sinking Fund, it was appli-
cable, primarily, to the diminution of the terrific public debt—
he, to effect this great übjeet, would even, go eo far as to say he
would willingly contribute part .of his own property pro-
vided others contributed their equitable share. He held that
the Land Tax redemption scheme was not a chimera, but
a measure perfectly and speedily practicable. If it could not
be done on the greater scale as recommended by his Hone
Friend,' let it be encouraged to a certain extent, and go on
as it had done for years, but with, increased incentives to pure
chase up the Land Tax. Going so far with him, he still must
confess lie felt his lion. Friend was desirous to go too great a
length. That there was only a possibility of a renusston of
taxes to the amount of three millions, he agreed with. the lion.
Gentleman. He had the acquiescence also of a writer of some
note on this head, who had published a pamphlet under the
sanction of Comment, on the state, of the nation.—(slr.
Robinson exclaimed, " We know nothing about it.")—Well,
if there were a eteplus, it was only applicable to those objects
which were connected with the fund out of which it arose or
necruedene Hear t front the Ministerial Bench.)--It had been
said that this hind being; suffered to anctimulate at compound
interest would provide us in case of necessity with the means for
going to war and sustaining it. Wits this the sentiment then
of itlinivere ? If so, let them sae so honestly at once. He would
tell any that held such an opinion that it would be much more
consistent in a public servant, much more Constitutional as a
Minister, to come down to the Howe and ask for a vote of
money to carry on any war that might be found necessary for
the maintenance of the national shinty or honour..—(hear !)
It was a delusion 'to assert in that House that the produce
of the accumuland interest on the Sinking Fund was appli.
cable as 'teens to carry on a war, or to any other purpose than
the deduction of our overgrown and enormous public debt.
Mr. BARING alio bore testimony to the clear and able
manner in which the Right Hon. Gentleman had laid his state-
ment before the House. The principles which it contained
were, to him, must sound and roost satisfactory. Ile agreed
with what had fallen from the Hon. Member for Porterlington,
as to the position of the 2,000,0001. raised upon die dead weight
and Pensions. He agreed with him, that the Sinking Fund
amounted to three millions, and not to five. Certainly much
might be said on account of .the temporary nature of the debt
incurred by that measure, butt in the next forty years the same
things must hap* again, and the same dead weights and aug-
mentation of Pensions must be created. The ,consequence
would then be, that the payment would be provided for by
other meetly, and thus be thrown on the permanent debt.—
He agreed that there was now, above the expenditure of
the country, a clear Sinking Fund of 3,000,0001. -and
2,000,0001. fbr the reninteion of taxes ; and he confessed that the
last named sum was greater than he expected to have been at
the disposal of the house.—(llear !)—With regard to the pre-
servation of a Sueplus Revenue, no one who had the least
pretension to the views of a Statesman could suppose that the
country could go on without it. Ins Hon. Friend (Mr. Ricardo)
agreed to this principle, and yet he would let these 3,000,000/.
of surplus slip away, because he thought it impossible to main-
tain a Sinking Fund. Notwithstanding what his Hon. Friend
had said upon thet subject, it wee undoubtedly one of the ad-
vantages of a Sinking Fund, that it could be applied for the
purpose of
.armament in the case of any temporary circum-
stances requiring 'warlike attitudes or exertions, which circutn-
stancee, front that not 'being permanent or lasting might not
reader a direct increase of texatiun necessary.—(llear !)T,he
Honourable Member then proceeded to vindicate the principle
of Mr. Pitt's Sinking Fund. Although he did not approite
of the foreign policy of that great marl, yet there was much in,
his management of the internal affairs of the country which
admiration,
ne peculiarly it raotion.lltletriliyought his Sinking Fund
seia
ine ti itliiosn, a suited to the situation in
which the country at that time stood. A disposition was new
demands
entertained to give it a bad name, because the House had
failed to support inentllear, hear.)—lle then proceeded to shew
how Parliament had abandoned the system recommended by
Mr. Pitt, and expressed his hope that the country would now
perseverein maintaining a real Sinking Fund, and not shrink
from supporteng 'it on account of the pressure of temporary
difficulties. He saw great inconvenience in the plan, of the
Sinking Fund now recommended. Instead of having 5,060,0001.
as the fixed amount, and bringing the remaining available Ito-
venue every year to be thrown on the table and scrambled for
by all different interest, he would say fix a standard of taxes
which snould not be mutable, and then take whatever surplus
remained to accumulate at compound interest as a Sinking
Fund.— (Hear, hear !)—lf
.the country Gentlemen looked at
the Sinking Fund as capable of erecting any.retlief to thtm,
they were never under so complete a delusion.--(Hear, hear !)
No man felt their distresses more than he did ; he believed it
to be greater than any distress which had ever been felt by any
other interest in the country, and he would say, also, theta
had been borne with the greatest fortitude. But it was inipoe-
sible that they should look to the two or three millions which
could be thus obtained, as affording them any thing nut the
most paltry relief. The lion. Member concluded by asking a
question as to the intention of the Right Hon. Gentleman the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, . with regard to the Manner in
which the Sinking Fund should opere.e upon the Debt.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXWIEQUER said lie had
omitted to state to the House that it was his intention *horny to
submit to the Rollie a measure for simplifying the operation of
the Sinking Fund. •
Mr. ROBERTSON spoke against the system in which the
House was persevering, as rot being sufficiently protective of
the Agricultural interest. That interest would be destroyed if
the system were persisted ins and with its destruction would
come the destruction of the Throne. If the landed interest,
which formed the aristocratic part of that House were to be
thrust out of it, what was to become of the Constitution ? Sup,
posing a dissolution of Parliament to take place now, it was im-
possible that the -Country fientlemen could be prepared for a
contest with the Fundholders. The Hon. Member then refer.
red to die financial history of other countries to shew that their
distresses arose from systems similar to that now acted upon by
the (government.

Mr. HUME agreed with all that his lion. Friend the Mem-
ber for Porterlington had said, with regard to the speech of the
Right Hon. Gentleman. Ile had never eat in that House and
heard a speech with so rnuchpleasure. Never, he believed, bad
aChancellor of the Exchequer made a statement eo clear ; and
they might look forward to have future financial measures and
operations so explained as to be understood by every body. He
was sorry to find that the Right Hon. Gentleman, notwith-
et tnding the admirable principles which he had laid down,
still intended to support it Sinking Fund. It was the greatest,
delusion that could possibly be practised. Ile agreed with 'ibis
Hon: Friend (Mr. Ricardo) that it woulebe desirable if 'they
could be sure of maintaining a real and effective Striking Fund;
but that he was convinced was imposaible. All the experience
they had proved this to be the cue. The late Chancellor of
the Exchequer took seven millions in one year from the Sink-
ing Fund ; and there had been altogether taken from the same
tource four hundred and forty millions. The Hon. Mem-
ber then adverted to a fernier resolution of his own,-which,
he contended, chewed a.e futility of the present manner in
which the Sinking Fund operated upon the Debt. With re-
gard to the measure of last year for the payment of the dead
weight and pensions, it had not yet dome into effect, and he
trusted that the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer
would repeal it. It was the most absurd of ell the financial
measures that had ever been adopted. But the real question
was, not whethee
there was a Sinking Fund of three million);
or five ; but whether they should extract either the one or
the other from the country, distressed as many of its great
interests nuw were. The real question for the Oammittee,
was, whether or not it would be best to take off' us
much taxation as possible, and trust .to. Parliament and
to the country for other means if any emergencies
should require them. Ile 'could not sit down without
Joining' the Chancellor of the Exchequer in his ex-
prelusion of regret that any Member .of that House should
think of Barletta:ling the proposition for robbing the Public
Creditor of one shilling of his right.--(Year, hear, hear !)--
Ppon this subject Ministers had in miy, honestly, and manfully
stated their determination, and he must do them the justice to
say, that they had firmly, honestly, and manfully maintained
it. The fall of States had too frequently been hastened, if rot
caused, by the breach of public faith, and he could not but
suspect that dime who wooed so readily break faith with one
class of the people, would never preserve it entire with any
other —(Cheere-tie deeply regretted the continuance of die.
tress in the Agricultural Interest% but injustice was not the
means by which it ought ,u, be relieved. ne lion. Member
for Sussex, who had presented a Petition froni that County,
appeared to think it alnioet fair to attack Public Credit, but he
trusted that Hon. Member would alter his opinion. lie could
not close without observing abet the Right Hon,- Glettleman

Mr. BENNET said, he was for the support of public
credit; but by that he meant common honesty to all; to the
Public Debtor as well as the Public Creditor. He was for
psying what was actually borrowed, without regard to the
tricks respecting the currency, by which it•becatne altered in
nominal value—people were not to be stripped and beggard by
this adherence to public faith, us it was called. The measure
which had been passed by Parliament respecting it were mea-
sures of greater spoliation and misery than those which had
been passed by any Government since Governments first exist-
ed. He trusted that County after County would meet and
demand justice on this subject, and he was SUTC the Parlia-
ment would then be compelled to submit to an equitable ad-
justment. fie should not at the present moment, enter fully
into this question ; but he could not sit quietly, under the_ sort
of rebuke which was conveyed by those who preceded him
upon all who entertained opinions similar to his own. When
the proper time arrived he should state his sentiments in the
open face of day.

Lord 'MILTON said he had experienced two suroriaes in the
course of the debate—one in the speech of his Hon. Friend
Bennet) and the other, more agreeeble, in the epeech
of the Chancellor of the ilxcheque . He must congratulate the
self-evident, but what till letely
house on a new Government, newrin all its feelings. The Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer had flatly admitted, what was indeed
means of relieving the country wag by diminishining taxation.
:Ministers were no w awake to the proper remedy, but he was Brie.
vously, disappointedin the quantum of relief, which was much
less than the country hail a right to expect, and inueh lees than
tied been denied—that the only
could be effectual. Ife could appeal to those who are best acquaint.
ed with the counties of England which weje not the most fertile,
whether the, proposed reduction would be sufficient to continue
the cultivation of the soil. He was satisfied it would not, and
that it was iocumbent on Government to melte a greater reduc.
tion. For at the saute time that he must deprecate the language
of his lion, Friend Cdr. G. I3ennet) he felt that the best secu-
rity for the public creditor would be found in the diminution of
taxation.—( Hear !)-llis Hon. Friend appeared to dread spoils-
tion on one 'tide only, but not on the other. An equitable ad-
justment might have been made in 1319, when they returned
to cash payments., but could not now be possibly carried into
effect. He would sic gent to the Members of the House who
felt as they ought to feel for the distress of the agriculturists,
to press a tarther reduction of taxation on the Min ister.—(llear ! )
Sir R. WILSON said be had heard the speech of the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer with considerable pleasure, particularly
that part of it in which he did justice to the loyalty of the peopfe
under all their privations. And as it was now fully admitted
that there was no sedition in the country, he hoped the Govern-
ment would consent to the repeal of the Six Acts that had been
passed to abridge the liberties of the people at a time when Mi.
flusters most unreasonably supposed that the people had de- I
creased in love tend reverence for their ronstitutior.!—(llear !)
Mr. WODEIIOUSE said, towards the close of last session '
a prospect had been held out, that the duty on beer should be
repealed, which would be some relief to agriculture. It ap.
peered from the returns, that the quantity of malt made less
year was three millions and a half bushels less than the year
before, and also that then the quantity of malt made for some
years past, was less than the quantity made thirty or forty years
ago. The agricultural interest was alto pressed by taxes from
which the other classes were free, such as poor rates, road tax,
country rates, amounting together to between nine and ten
millions : for all these reasons he thought the Chancellor of
the Exchequer should repeal the duty on beer, or reduce the
existing duty on malt.
Mr. ENETT (of %Viltshire) expressed his surprise that
the Chancellor of Exchequer had made no proposal for the
relief of the Agricultural Interest. lie still hoped that some-
thing on this important subject would originate with his Ma-
jesty'e Ministers in the cause of the present Session. With
.respect to the general relief to be obtained by remission of
taxation, he was of opinion 'that the Window lax was highly
objectionable in principle, and ought to be repealed. Ile was
however friendly to the house TAX, which he thoeglit was tair
in principle as Well as in operation. Ile bad heard. with con- j
siderable pleasure, the sentiments expressed by the Right Hon.
'Gentleman respecting Ireland. Though not an Irishman him-
self, he should always must cordially support any measure
which had the good of the country fur its obiett. lie was
convinced that whatever was doze for Ireland was done for
England—(Hear!)—and he hoped the time was riot far distant
when Ireland would flourish, one of the principal ponions of
his Majesty'e dominions..
The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER said he
rose merely to answer an observation made by his Honeurable
Friend (Mr. Wodetesuse) respecting the Tax upon Beer. Al.
though he had not long.been in the office he now held, this-sub-
ject had not escaped his attention; and he . knew it had not
escaped that of his Noble Friend, his predecessor in office.
All that he could say at present was that he was most anxious
to find the means of altering the present Duty, and to facilitate
the consumption of Beer. Tu what extent lii* wishes could, be
'reduced to practice he was not at that moment prergd to de-
cide. He trusted the House would not call upon ' to give
any further answer at present—Olean hear!)
The motion was then agreed to.
The usual annual Votes for Duties on Tobacco, Snuff, and
other exciseittle articles, were agreed to. The House re-
-I.t tolnitra; N;
ornepwoirrich prodaygressthe
Ilitontilietdag;atinteurCi
inittee was ordered to be received.
The other orders of the day being now disposed of, the House
adjourned at Eleven o'clock. progress, and
Reportobtained
of-the
Cone_lea e e

Prince LEOPOLD, attended by Sir ROBERT
GARDINER, CHRie to town from Claremont, for
the purpose of paying his respects to the KING.
His Royal Highness was introduced after the
Duke of 'Tonic, and had a long interview with
his MAJESTY.