The Sun.
London, England, 1840-02-01 00:00:00

FEBRUARY 1, 1840.

the views which he might entertain on the subject. He
j should now say, however, that he bad looked at those
rules and regulations, and if they were all the Members
were bound to, nothing could appear to him more unob-
jectionable. What their doctrines might be was another
qnestion, and he could not say whether. Mr. Fier had
found their doctrines to be false or not. He should add,
that Mr. Fair had stated to him_ that the body was bound
to nothing but the rules which he had alluded to.
The Bishop of EXETER thought itwould be in the recol-
lection of theirLordships,if his memory did not deceive him,
that besides stating that Mr. Fait had been Vice-President
of the Association, lie had also said that he had been
an active person, and that he had presided where various
lectures had been given. The fact had been admitted
that this individual, who was superintendent registrar of
the district of Birmingham, had been Vice-President
of tLe Association till the month of June last.
On that fact he had rested his charge against the Noble
Marqui.. He thought it was his duty to take care that a
public office should not be held by such a man. It hap-
pened that tbat individual, who represented himself as now
no longer a member of the Association, and had been its
most active agent, not excepting Mr. Owen, till
about the time the Noble Marquis had mentioned—he
held in his hand a publication of the Society, containing
the proceedings of the fourth Congress of that Association
held in May last, and, on a minute examination of those
proceedings, it appeared that Mr. Fair bad, in May last,
taken the chair of that Association six times. He was ap-
pointed to act in committees twenty times, and he
had moved sixty resolutions.— ( Hear, hear, bear )
That was not all; and it would be seen that he was the
most important member of that Association ; for it was to
be remarked that when he had given up connection with
them,, he had stated that he was induced to retire from
them, and they said that they beard with regret of his in-
tention, 'and pressed him to continue a tneml er of their
body. It was stated in reply that he hid come to
the resolution, not from any personal feeling, for it
was a subject of considerable pain to him to lay
down his office ; but though ho was heart and hand
in the cause, there were private considerations which
induced him to resign. "tie " (the' Bishop of Exe-
ter) then held in his hand a letter from a clergy-
man in Birmingham, which deposed to the following
facts.—(The Right Reverend Prelate here read some ex-
tracts from the letters alluded tn, detailing various
proceedings at lectures in Birmingham.) The first even-
ing that clergyman had attended, the subject of the lec-
ture was " The Falsehood of the Bible." The lecturer
went on to state that it was a human invention, and that
its doctrines were absurd and ridiculous. He attended
the next lecture, the object of which went to show that
there was no God. Mr. Fair presided at tbote various
meetings, and everything done at them seemed to be en-
tirely under'his management and control. Indeed he had
been quite the Coryphsens of those orgies. The Right
Rev. Prelate then said that he was ready to lay the entire
'letter before the Noble Marquis.
The Marquis of NORM A NBY bad before stated that
he had desired Mr. Fair to make explanations upon the
subject. Thoae explanations, had not been quite satis-
factory, and 'he had desired that gentleman to come up to
London to give further explanations. The matter was still
in a course oT inquiry, and he had no hesitation in saying
that one of his objects was to find out what had
been done in the Society when he was connected with it,
for he had no hesitation in saying that
.if those monstrous
and atrocious doctrines had been advanced while he was
presiding, and he had not objected to them, he was utterly
unfit for the situation.—( Cheers.) They were not, how-
ever, in a situation to come to a decision on the subject,
It would have been better to have done so than to have
communicated them to the Rev. Prelate, for that House.
Was not the most proper place to elicit truth, and, of
course, it had' caused a considerable lapse of time
before the inquiry could be entered into. Noble
Lords and It. verend Prelates seemed to be hardly
aware of the Constitution of the country.. If those things
were not communicated to the Home Office by the Lords
Lieutenant or the Magistracy, how was it possible for that
office to know what was going. on throughout the
country?—( Hear, bear, and cheers.) If notice was taken
of the matter to the Home Office, he would immediately
cause inquiry to be made, and an explanation would be im.
mcdiately required. That was the course he had pursued,
It was the course which he would pursue in future. There
was no one more anxious than himself for the utmost and mos
rigid inquiry into the conduct of every public officer, an
when any communications were made to him he insttitu
ted an immediate inquiry.
Lord ABINGER begged to ask the Noble Secretary,'
what he had licari regarding Mr. Fair.
The Marquis of NO RMANBY must say be heard his
character; was highly respectable, and he had never
heard of his acting as Vice- President of any so-
ciety of Socialists. In answer to a remark

for Ole, had merely the assertion on the one side, and the
denial of Mr. Pare upon the other. He (the Marquis of Not-
Rianby) could not but regret that if the clergyman had heard
those doctrines, which' were no doubt monstrous, and had
known them tobe approved of by a public officer. It was
a pity that he had not thought it his duty to com 7
municate it to 'hitu as the public officer under whose
cognizance such matters came.—( Hear, hear, and cheep.)
from Lord Ellenborough, the N0.31e Marquis said he was
not prepared to blame..arly person,• but he thought the
clergymen of the neighWiithopd sriould have taken means
to communicate snch,ittfarmation ta.head-quarters.
The Bishop of EXETER felt himself bound to do
jus-
tice to the clergyman who had been just attacked by the
Noble Marquis. He was not aware that it was the.bounden
duty for the clergyman to communicate all such infor-
mation to the Home Office. The resident clergyman
in the great town of Birmingham, if he were obliged
to communicate every little information regarding
immorality of a misconduct of individuals to the Home
office, would find himself in a situation that would soon
be tro warm for him. This Clergyman, as he before
stated, did not communicate the information at first
to him ; he (the Right Reverend Prelate) never
knew of the existence of that Clergyman until he re-
ceived a letter from him yesterday, but he (the Right
Rev. Prelate) wrote to a friend in Birmingham request-
ing him to find out any gentleman who was present at those
meetings. In consequence of this his friends applied
to the clerg3 man alluded to, and the answer which
he had read to that House was the result of that interview.
It would be no trifle for the Curate of such a town, sur-
rounded as he was on all sides by enemies to public mo-
rals and religion, where even the Magistrates were afraid
to do their duty—it would in such a case be most danger-
ous for a Clergyman to report those proceedings to head-
quarters. But he (the Right Rev. Prelate) begged to
ask the Secretary of State, if it was not his duty to be in-
formed of those facts which had been of late of such a
public nature 7 He was sorry to Waste their Lordship's
time on that occasion, which must soon form the subject
of discussion on a future evening, so that they were net yet
done with Socialism. He could not help rejoicing that
the Noble Marquis had adopted a different tone from what
he held on Friday last. He therefore begged leave to
conclude by saying that the question must be entered
upon on another occasion.

Lord NORMANI3Y said that, having heard the state-
ments of the Rev. Prelate, he thought it was his duty to
inquire into them, which he had done.
Lord LONDONDERRY said ho rose for the purpose
of asking a question of some importance. He wished to
know if the Noble Lord could give.him any information re-
lative to the possession, by the French, of the Island of Mi-
norca. This was an important island, half way between
Toulon and Algiers, and he wished to know whether the
French had any station upon it.

Lord MELBOURNE said ho had heard nothing nsiw upon
the subject. France had an hospital on a small Island
near Minorca, which they held by agreement with Spain,
and on which subject Spain had given to her Majesty's
Government the most satisfactory assurances.
Lord LONDONDERRY said, he hoped, after the
statement made by the Noble Lord at the head of her
Majesty's Government, that he would have no objection to
lay th c
the papersL Ai p
irEoNf r theo
o N Hou
Lordssad,
there would be no objec-
tions, for those assurances were perfectly satisfactory.
Lord LONDONDERRY then gave notice, that on
Tuesday next he would move for copies of all communi-
cations which have passed between her Majesty's Govern-
ment and the Court of Spain, relative to the convention
of Bergara, from the 28th July up to the present period.
Lord COLCHESTER gave notice of his intention to
move, on Monday next, for copies of all communications
which have passed between her Majesty's Government
and the Courts of France and Spain, relative to the occu.
pation by France of the Island of Minorca.
Earl CA \VDOR presented several petitions;
after
which, the House adjourned till Monday,

HOUSE OF COMMON.i JAN. 31.
The SPEAKER took the Chair to-day at the usual hour.
Mr. CHOLNIONDELEY took the oaths, and his scat for
Denbigb.

MEDICAL REFORM.
Mr. FRENCH presented a petition from Mr. Dermott,
Lecturer on Anatomy in Bloomsbury, complaining of the
disorganised state of the medical profession in the
United Kingdom, and stating that the Managing Boards
and Courts of Examiners of the different medical bodies,
are self perpetuated; assuming to themselves the exclusive
right of filling up all vacancies which may happen among
themselves—thus being completely close corporations.
That medical appointments are frequently filled up
in the same way, and that where those appointments were
OA up by election the majority of e!ectors were non-
medical, and had no opportunity of judging of the merits
of the candidates, and that in the majority of instances the
result of the election was . frustrated by the exer-
tions of individuals whose object was not to procure
the best medical advice for the charity; but to serve their
private friends. He prayed that henceforth all vacancies
in the governing body should be filled up by persons
chosen by ballot by the profession at large—that
all examinations should be public, and not merely
verbal but practiCal—he moved that this petition
be printed, and stated that he should call the atten-
tion of the House to it, either when be brought
forward the motion of which he had given notice, or on
the motion of the Hon. Member for Bridport.—Ordered
to be printed.
Mr. MACAULAY presented a petition from the Royal
College of Physicians of Edinburgh, praying for further
measures for securing medical qualifications.
Alderman COPELAND presented a petition from the
ward of Farringdon, praying for the release of the Sheriff,
of London.
Mr. WILLIAMS presented a petition from some place,
the name of which we could not hear, in favour of additional
church accommodation.
Mr. FERGUSON presented a petition from Dundalk
in favour of the Municipal Corporation Bill for Ireland, and
praying f.A. a further extension of the franchise.
Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET presented a pe-
tition from certain inhabitants of the county of Monmouth,
in favour of Church Extension.
Mr. CODRINGTON presented two petitions from
some places we could not hear, against any further grant
to Maynooth.
Mr. BA INES presented a petition which purported to
come from Leeds, and signed by the Chairman of the
meeting in which that petition originated, praying for an
investigation into that Society called " Socialists." He
wished to ascertain whether the House would receive
that petition as coming from the inhabitants of Leeds.
The SPEAKER—Certainly not.
Mr. HUME presented a petition from Mr. Villiers
Sankey against a large sum being granted to Prince
Albert.
Mr. FITZSIMON presented two petitions from pa-
rishes in Ireland in favour of the Irish Municipal Corpura-
.tiOn Bill.
THE ARMY IN INDIA.
Sir J. HOBHO USE potponed his motion for a Vote
of Thanks to the army serving in India to Thursday. Feb. 6.
IMPRISONMENT OF THE SHERIFFS.

Sir R. INGLIS gave notice that on Monday he would
call the attention of the House to a petition from the Lord
Mayor, Aldermen, and Common Council of 'the city if
London, praying for the release of the Sheriffs from con-
finement. • : •

Mr. HUTT gave notice that on the Gth February he
would call the attention of the House to the tolls leviid
oil ships entering the harboui' of Scarborough. .*
PRIVILEGES OF PARLIAMENT.,
Sir EDWARD SUGDEN gave notice that-on Mon-
day next. he Would call the attention of the House to a p( -
tit,on from the bar of England relative to the privileges of
Parliarnent.4 Hear, hear. )
Mr. E. TENN ENT moved for certain returns relative
to the 'Registration of Designs.—Agreed to.
"11 UTT moved for returns of the Custom Duties,
atictfil)e-F.Ae" e • .es on Glass.—Agreed to.
,„• EWPORT RIOTS.
O g • 'e notice of his intention on Monday
at
of high treason should be executed on Thursday next.
Memberwhether.Ftner ALLEGEDCsotloannedsfoi kttr
ht
elwh THOMAS,Starwi sgLNohthtoboNetnhe,Dei other persons
Ent ..°lellthrendri seeingt sAsi- place, Aa°o opposite
fie theSt'
,oetTh begged(GhelaLlavEolGelraiod beent. t jeorOnhemanffil cnel
: Russell
MAJESTY.ts
tconvictede
at-
tention to the Report of his Speech in the Morning Chronicle
in which he was repre,ented as having stated that be would
challenge the Right Hon. Baronet to point out a single
instance of an individual officer in the navy, either on full
or half-pay, having used insulting threats towards their
Sovereign at any public meeting, and at the same time
stating that he wished he could say as much of the army.
Now having declared in his official correspondence to the
Commander-in-Chief, most positively and distinctly that
no expressions of an insulting nature were made use of
towards her Majesty, and that statement having been" con-
firmed by several other officers present, and by Mr. Roby, he
(Colonel Thomas) begged now to call the Hon-
ourable and . Gallant Member to state whether
he meant to affirm that he (Colonel Thomas)
was present, when such expressions were made use of.—
(Loud cries of " hear," from the Conservative benches.
Captain PECHELL—Sir, I am always ready to give
any explanation, for I can well understand the feelings of
any officer who imagines his conduct has been impugned.
What is reported of me in the Morning Chronicle, jt is not
for me to say whether it is correct or not. It had been said
that the same measure which had been dealt out to the
army should have been dealt to the navy, and my reply
was, that if any officer in the navy had been detected
in attending any such meeting, and remaining there
when improper language was used towards the
Sovereign, I should be glad to have his ease pointed out.
The Gallant Colonel has stated that he was not present
on this occasion, therefore it cannot apply to him.__
(Cries of " No, no I" from the Conservative benches.)
Col. THOMAS—I beg to say I did not state I was not
present. I said that no such language was made use of
while I was present, and that I was present—( Hear.)
Lord M 0 RPE having moved the Order of the Day,
Lord STANLEY put a question to the Noble Lord
as to the payment of arrears due to the clergy of
Ireland in 1834, 1835, and 1836? One dividend of
ss. in the pound had been paid, and he wished to
know what prospect there was of any further payment.
Lord MORPETH said he believed another dividend
Attorney-General for Ireland had
shossnmy a disposition to rise
taken
nob
leosetnneeplps aTti
cooamumdpAlest thee
htAahvteit
noparanye
just before the Noble word spoke,
Captain PEC HELL said, I wish to save the Gallant
Colonel the trouble of any further explanation. Un-
doubtedly, after what has fallen from him, that he was not
present when any such language was used, I have no hesi-
tation in saying that what I stated cannot apply to him. '
ADJOURNED DEBA FE.

The Order of the Day having been read,
Lord MO RPET H rose and said—Sir, after the
speech which the Noble Lord ( Stanley) delivered last night
though I am most fully aware of ,he immense disadvantage
to which I must expose myself in attempting to follow the
Noble Lord, and was conscious of the immense supe-
riority of his powers of debate, I did rise for the purpose
of showing you, that notwithstanding I might have
shrunk from all competition with him in those respects
yet that I did not shrink from the subject, or from the
merits of the case with which we have to deal---( Hear,
hear.) However, Sir, the House very naturally showed
that it was not disposed at that hour to listen to such a
successor to the Noble Lord, and it has consequently
afforded me the opportunity of considering the question,
and asking myself as to the weight which ought to be
given to his representations.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble
Lord has stated very fairly, and only as I might say he was
bound to do, the question with which the House has to
deal.—( Hear, hear.) He has stated that it is not
confined to the question which my Right Hon. Friend the
Judge Advocate rejoiced to have raised, whether the pre-
sent Government has the confidence of the House, but that
it would also indicate that the gentlemen who filled
the Benches opposite are prepared to undertake the
Government. (Hear, hear, hear.) Now, Sir, I
also rejoice that this option is fairly to be put
to the Parliament of the people, and that it is to be proved
whether they do really pant and languish, as the Noble
Lord expresses and flatters himself, for their advent to
power, and for the blessings which may he expected under
their sway.—( Hear, hear.) I also rejoice with the
Noble Lord that, by the results of this vote, all
parties in this House will stand plain and un-
masked, and that they will have to intimate by
the vote which they will be hound to give, to which of
the two parties in the State they think it advisable that
the powers of the State ought to be entrusted? Now the
Noble Lo-d, in the course of the very effective speech
which he made last night, I think, laid the main stress of his
argument in common with his Right Hon. Friend the
Member for Pembroke, who preceded him the evening be-
fore, in raising, as they did, many collateral points and
various side-blows—the main staple of their line of attack
on the Government was this, that many Members of this
House support the Government who go much further in poli.
tics than the Government itself. Now, Sir, it is not my
intention, or my wish, any more than it is in my power, to
deny the position. It has been so from the beginning,
ever since the formation of the present Government—
( Hear, hear)—and if Ido not greatly forget the compo-
sition of the majorities during the Government of Lord
Grey, it was eminently the case with that Government
when the Noble Lord and the Right Hon. Baronet cor-
dially zequiesced in the support of any Gentlemen in
this House, and of large bodies in this country,
who, undoubtedly, went much further in politics.

It is no doubt true that the Hon. Member for St. Alban's,
and the Hon. Members for Finsbury and Dublin, or the
Hon. Member for Kilkenny, d 3 wish to carry particular
views much further than the present Government. And
the result, according to the Noble Lord, seems to
be, that we ought to turn round and say the
Government on no account wish them to commit the