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London, England, 1847-07-16 00:00:00

ing these opinions, he could not but feel it his duty tot most unconstitutional that such ancient bib rieri
adopt the course which he had before stated it was his Carlisle or Narevich,should be deprived of ,their' ar
intention to take. privileges, in oreer that, these new bishopricti, as Ivo
Mr. D. ACLAND thought that the House ought to by the Bill, shOuld have the privilege of &
be obliged to the Right Hon. Baronet for the speech he their seats •, in Parliament by rotation.
had made; it showed fully the reasons why the late Go- , Honourable -and Learned Gentleman then q.,
vernment failed to keep itself in office, and why it had Solden in support of this view, and concluded
lost the support of all good and honest. churchmen of the calling upon the House to support the Bill, not
country. The Right Hon. Gentleman had stated an in- standing the objectionable points to which he has
stance of the Bishop of Salisbury performing his own verted, and which he hoped would be asnencleul in I.
duties, and that of the see of Bath and Wells, bat he mittee.
(Mr. Acland) would take the liberty of denying that, Mr. B. OSBORNE thought that the flue:Won for
and he did so upon the authority of the Bishop sideration was, how they should best dispos eof the -
of Salisbury himself.—(Hear, hear.) The see (1 plus funds of the Ecclesiastical Commission. In
Bath and Wells had suffered very much for . opinion this would be best done by increasing
a time from the want of a bishop. Again, the Right parochial rather than the episcopal clergy. It app.%
Hon. Baronet accused the laity of not having looked to him very strange that the Noble Lord (Lord ~
this question fairly in the face; but he (Mr. Arland) Russell) who, while-sin 'opposition, coquetted so e
maintained that they had, and the conclusion they had with the Dissenters, should now appear so
come to was that more bishops were wanted for.the due loon, to ingratiate himself into the good opii
and proper management of the Church— bishopt, whose de' the m ' Ire :„of the Church. Be
of
fe detracted
Lords,
butf ro from theirho
should duties
bboyaaltwteanyds aenocgeas;no
dthioHtohnosi er -,.viewed
Lb o) , by
attention should not for the greater portion of' the year lieved that se proceeding would not be favour
if
e constituents of the Noble Lore
He
hee
hoped, therefore,
hpelraecfeodre,uttihdaetr whenthei andsg they marked their sense of his cm
respective dioceses in the control and superintendence of y rejectine.lievM -as their
. representative at the •
r charge.--(Hear; hear. election •-andequitersg him a martyr to his new c
th ot into Committee' it would
the House would not adopt the proposals of the Right the tshurebhe.L(ll4:C'Phneenirs.shin),
, ,, ent for his present flirtation
Honourable Baronet, but pass this
Governmenttirety. H e wouldthat
hsea3y, p
athus m
omuch - Mr. T. DLIN,.t.
attention to the re- excite ri OMllts opposed the Bill. He c
el the present- dared this neeeeenr.e wale uncalled for, and
itswould ter
rest of the country, than did her Majepsatsys'esdlawtnheia,hvisers.
to
meaasu—r7-7,Seterittnegn3Q,Flhousritdility--aga.
presentatives of the Church, and the Disse t' •
indg
.inte- The presenteGoeernenent .
had no right to bring
mat promo
if it was inter
During the last ten years. much had
of them deeply regretted, but be hoped the time wasmnany
tiohLuailnnderuefat:er
....reuthdeif.4uferfulness of the Church,
tar distant when the Dissenting body would beeem'w the numbrearthoetrlei' sihneorpe:Le(ut.ehtse
r, phaeraore.)hialThceleHrogyn.
t•
more united with the parent Church.—(Hear, hear.) e
Sir W. MOLESWORTH regretted that the, Noble sewed 'fro '
AtiLIO N HYDPo
Lord at the head of the Government had not consented upon the limouse several letters, which he had
the working clergy—(Laughter)--ct
. it
the
mast
dii,icirpodrej, ct the Bill, and join him in gi
to withdraw this Bill, because it was quite impossible in le siteedin aht every stage.
...
the few days of the session which remained to discuss Mr.
the merits of the various and important qu, stions which that the opponenntst,oafn;dreth(Meesainsure were the beast !re
this measure necessarily gave rise to.—(Hear.) But of the Government, sincere Bloiviel,rsanodf 'et°llhesirll'i
he protested that ihe Episcopal funds could be applied gion.—(Hear, hear.)
to much better and more useful purposes than the este- Mr. COLLErT was also opposed to the Bill..
blishment of new bishoprics ; and as for the statement of thought it very strange that such a Bill would be tre'
the Hon. Gentleman who had just resumed his seat, that cated by a Liberal Government.—(Cries of '. Divide
the laity were favourable to an increase in the bench of The House then divided, whin there appeared--
Bishops, he utterly denied it. Cornwall, it was said, was For the second reading
to have a new bishop, but he knew of his own knowledge Against it
that the people of that district were opposed to it. .. Majority...
An Hoe. MEMBER—Southwark is to have one too. On cur re admission to the gallery we found
Sis W. MOLESWORTH said, as the representative Mr. DUNCOMBE denouncing the result of the d.
of Southwark, he must protest against it. No more sion,. as disgretetul to the House.—(Cries of "Or
bishops were wanted ; and instead of establishing new order," and great uproar:)
sees, they ought to be considering a measure for ens. The SPEAKER called the Hon. Gentleman to ot
bling the existing bench of bishops to perform their for such langteigee as it was unparliamentary to imp
functions in a more efficient manner than they did the deeision of the. House:
it present. The bishops ought not, in his Mr. if ESCOTT said, that tee well as he could
1 opinion to have seats in the House of Lords. member, the language of the Hon. Gentleman was, I!
because it distracted their attention from the the vote come to was disgraceful to a weak adni,
Episcopal duties they had to perform, and he tration.
hoped shertly to see the day when the Bench of Bishops Ma'. DUNCOMI3E repeated what he had said, :
would be relieved of their duties as Legislators, and considered the vo e most disgraceful. The Hon. Mem•
thereby enabled to devote more time and attention in for Lambeth had displayed great inconsistency, for
promoting the welfare of their respective dioceses. 1836 hs had voted against a Bill which ware well kno
Mr. M. MILNES supported the Bill, on the ground as the Bishops' Bill,
that the duties imposed on the present bishops were Mr. AGLLONBY defended the course pursued by
more than they could conveniently perform, while the Hon. Member for Lambeth.
wants of the people had so much increased of late years, Lord.J. RUSSELL censured the conduct of the C
that an augmentation of bishops had become absolutely position, which he charac-erised as quibbling, and hot
necessary. the House would see it in its true nature.
Mr. E. DENISON said this Bill embraced a very Mr. B. OSBOR‘E wished to ask the Speaker if ;-
large and important question, but • nevertheless he language of the Noble Lnrd was Parliamentary ?
had supported the second reading of the Bill at the late The SPEAKER said that he would have called I
period of the session, under the impression that those Noble Lord to Order had he considered it necessary.
who had more time arid opportunity for considering the (Loud cheers.):
matter had duly considered what would be the effect of Mr. ESCO t'T defended the course pursued by 1
augmenting the Bench of Bishops, with a limitation as minority, end oOntended that the quibbling was all
to seats in the House of Lords. The Right Hon.' Baro the other side. 's
net the Member for Dorchester had made an admirable Mr. M. PHILLiPS said the best thing the Her
speech upon this subject, and he regretted very much could do, was to undo the Bill of 1836, in reference
dial the Right lion. Baronet while in office did not make the Bishopric of Manchester. Nothing could be mt
an effort to settle this very important question. He did satisfactory to his constituents.
not, however, agree in all that had fallen from Sir G. GREY said that if they went into Commie
the Right Honourable Baronet ; and he f, It on the Bill, they might modify it there as the Riot:
convinced that the Right Honourable Baronet thought proper.
would change many of his opinions upon the appropria- The debate was then adjourned till to-morrow (C
tion of the ecclesiastical fund, who n he became ac- day).
quainted with the further progress of the inquiry which the other orders of the day having been disposed
was going on upon that subject.—(Hear, hear.) the House adjourned at Half past Twelve o'clock.
Lord SANDON did not think the duties of a bishop '
were so light as the Right Hon. Baronet the Member
for Dorchester supposed, for scarcely a day, nay, an
hour passed, that a bishop was not engaged in dis-
pensing of the business of the diocese over which he pre
sided. He (Lord Sandon) was eicquainted with one
Right Rev. Prelate who had upwards of 50 letters to
write every morning upon the affairs of his see, and he
would ask any Member of that House whether he knew
any statesman whose duties were heavier than that ?
(Hear, hear, and laughter.) For himself he entertained
no doubt that there ought to be an increase in the
number of bishops, and if he wanted any proof of this,
it could be found in the good effects which had resulted
from establishment of colonial bishoprics.—(Hear, hear.)
He was therefore glad that this measure had been intro-
duced, and he hailed it as the commencement of' a better
state of things for the Church of England. She had long
suffered from internal dissenting, but he hoped the day
of her suffering was passed, and that hereafter they
should be united in securing her welfare, and increasing
her sphere of usefulness.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. NEWDEGATE supported the Bill. He thought
the efficiency of the bishops would be enlarged if they
had had seats in the House.
Lord CLIVE said that the very fact of the bishops
agt eeing to this measure showed that they disregarded
the pride of circumstances, and chose rather than have
seats in the House of Lords, to confine themselves to the
observance of the duties of their position in the country.
He thanked the Noble Lord for his Bill, to which he
would give his strenuous support.
Mr. HORSMAN observed that all ho had intended
by the remarks he had made on this subject was to throw
out an alternative to those who said they must have a
certain number of bishops, and to show them that they
might have that number in a different and less objec-
tionable manner. He thought the difference between
he bishops and the clergy was at present ton great, and
should be lessened; but he had had the admission of the
Government on two or three points, and would not
despair of ultimately effecting a very salutary
reform. He gave the Government credit for wishing to
reform their system of church discipline, but for the
reasons he had mentioned he hoped they would postpone
•he measure, in order next year to bring forward a more
comprehensive and a better one.

PARLIAMENTARY DIVIiSIONS.

(From the Votes and Proeeecl:ngs of the House of Common
WEDNESDAY, JULY 14. •
COLLIERIES BILL.
Order for Second Reading read; Motion made, and Qac
tion proposed, " That the Bill be now read a second time
—Amendment proposed, to leave out the word " now," a'.
at the end of the Question to add the words " upon tl,
day three months :"—Question put, " That. the word' no
stand part of the Question." The House divided
MINORITY—AYES, 23.
A rkwright, G. Fuller, A. E. Palmer. G.
Illackhurne, J. I. Mall, Sir 13. Pechell, Captain
13ohlero, 11. G. Illndley Charles Perfect, R.
Borthwlck, P. Herlihy, John Repton, G. W. .1.
Bouvrrie, E. P. • Ilumphery, Ald. Yorke, Henry R.
Cabbeil, B. B. Martin, J.
Escott, Bickham Morris, David
Evans, Sir De Lacy O'Connell, H..T.
I errand, W. B. Parke, C. W.

Tmms.
Duncembe, Thomas
Walacy, T.

MAJORITY-NOES, 56.

Aldam, William Ebrington, Viscount Mitchell, T. A.
Arundel, Earl of Egerton, W. T. Monahan, J. H.
itaine, Walter Forster, M. Morpeth, Viscount
Barrington, Viscount Gibson; Thomas M. Mundy, E.M.
Blackstone, W. S. Goring,r. Newdegate, C. N.
Blakemore, R. Grey, Sir G. Ogle, S. C.
Bowring, Dr. Hamilton, G. A. Palmer, R.
Brotherton, Joseph Hawes, Benj. Fluntridge, Captain
Brown, W. Henley, J. W. Prime, Richard
Byng, G. S. Houldsworth, T. Reid, Colonel
Carew, W. P. Jervis, Sir John Shell, R. L.
Cowper, W. F. Jones, Captain 'Arun, Edward
Cripps, W. Labouchere, llenry Thornely, T.
Denison, W. J. Liddell, lion. H. T. Trclawny, J. S.
Denison, E B. Lindsay, Colonel Vane, Lord 11.
Dlvett, Edward Lygon, Gen. Vivian, J. H.

Duncan, George
Macaulay, T.
Dundas, Gtr David Id`Taggart, Slr J.
Du Pre, C. G. Mahon, Viscount
East, Slr J. B. Miles, William

TELLERS.
Mil, Lord Marc=
Parker, John

PARLIAMENTARY ELECTORS BILL.

Order for Second Reeding read; Motion made, and Qua
tion proposed, " That the Bill be now read a second time:
—Amendment proposed, to leave out the word " now," an
at the end of the Question to add the words " upon this da
three months:"—Question put, "That the word now' can
part of the Questom." The House divided, Ayes 54; Noe.
54: whereupon Mr. Speaker declared himself with the Aye:

GOULBURN said that the same arguments
would constantly be urged for postponing the Bill, and
that he should therefore give it his support at the
present time.—(Hear, hear.) It had been stated
in the course of this delytte, that they were
precluded from creating the Bishop of Manchester by
the first Ecclesiastical Commission, but the very names
tached to the report showed that it was not intended
that it should contemplate the binding up of this even-
,ion for ever. Surely it the Commission contemplated
the extension of the inferior clergy, it was also their
.luty to provide a sufficiency of ecclesiastical superin•
endance. The question was now, whether there should
be a new Bishop of Manchester or not ? Tie did not
consider that a Bishop of the Church of England was to
be a mere ornamental appendage to that Church.— (A
laugh from the llon Mernbnr for Montrose.) Did the
Hon. Member for Montrose, who professed himself a
Member of the Church of England, think that the Church

- •• AYES.
Agilonby, TI. A. . Ebrington, Viscount Osborne, Captain
Aldam, William - Ellis, Wynn Parker, John
Arundel, Earl of ' Escott, Bickhain Pechell, Captain
Bouverie, E. P. . Gibson, T. M. Perfect, Robert
Bowring, Dr. Gore, Robert Philips,Aart
Brotherton, J. Gower, Le% eson Pinney, William
Brown, W. Grosvenor, Earl Rich, Henry
Buller, Charles Hawes, Benjamin Shell, It. L.
Buller, Edward ' Hill, Lord 31. Somerville, Sir IT.
liyng, G. S. • Hindley, C. Strait, Edward
Clay, Sir W. Ilumphery, Ald. Thornely, T.
Colebrooke, Sir T. Hutt, William Wakley, Thomas
Collett, John Jervis, Sir John Ward, 11. G.
Denison, W. J. N'Carthy, Alexander Williams, W.
D'Eyncourt, C. T. Martin. John Yorke, IL It.
Liven, Edward Mitchell, A. T.
Duncan, ueorge . . Monahan, J. IL
Duncombe, T. 'Morris, David
Dundas, Sir David ' Ogle, S. C.

TELLERS.
Evans, Slr De Lacy
Hall, Slr Benjamin

ROES.
Archdall, Captain East, Sir J. B. Mahon, Viscount
Austen, Colonel Egerton, W. T. Manners, Lord J.
Barrington, Viscount Farnham, E. Miles, William
Bateson, Thomas Fuller, A. E. Mundy, E. Miller
Beckett, W. Gardner, J. D. lieeld, Joseph
Blackstone, W. S. Ga.skell, J. M. Neville, Ralph
Blakemore, R. ' Goring, Charles Palmer,'Robert
Bolder°, 11. G. Hamilton, J. H. Palmer, G.
iturthwick, Peter Hamilton, G. A. Patten, J. W.
Botlield, Beriah Hamilton, Lord C. Prime, Richard
Bowles. Admiral Henley, J. W. Reid, Colonel
Broadley, Henry Hotham, Lord Repton, G. W.
Carew, \V. H. role ilouldsworth, T. Round, John
Clive, R. H. Jerinyn, Earl Trotter, John
Codrington, Sir W. Jones, Captain Villiers, Viscount
Denison, E. B. Lefroy, A. Waddington, B. 8.
Douglas, Sir C. B. Lindsay, Colonel T
Willi am
zu.sx.s.
,
Duckworth, Sir J. Lygon, General cripps
Du Pre, C. G. 'Mackinnon, W. A. Newdegatc, C. N.

ught to do without bishops ? He knew the fervent at-
tachment of the Right Hon. Baronet behind him (Sir
J. Graham) to the Church of which he was a member,
hut he thought that that Right lion. Gentlemen had not
stated correctly what were the duties of the bishops. He
considered that their duties were far more extended than
those ascribed to them by the Right Hon. Gentleman.
tie might feel thus having lived under two ecclesiastical
superintendencies, which added to the duties instanced
oy the night Hon. Gentleman, others of a far n, arer and
still higher character.—(Elear, hear.) He would not
only vote for the creation of the new bishopric of Man-
chester, but also for that part of the preamble
hich recognised the necessity for a further creation of
three more bishops—(" Hear, hear," from the Radical
benches)—and in taking that course be knew that be
heuld merit the thanks of the Churchmen of this
country.
Ms. B. ESCOTT said that this was perhaps one of
the most important Bills that had been introduced into
the House in the whole of this session, and it
was therefore necessary that they should give the
greater deliberation to it. He had listened to
he speech of the Honourable Member for the Uni-
versity of Cambridge with great attention, but he did
not hear him allege a reason why he had supported the
union of the sees of Bangor and St. Asaph, when in
office in one year, and in the following year, when out
ot office, advocate the creation of five new bishoprics.
Throwing the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman,
then, out of the question, es it well deserved, let themse
e
how the question really stood. The objects of the Ec-
clesiastical Commissioners were to benefit the poorer
clergy, and the opinion of the working clergy.
If they
it 'taken
now, would be thatno new bishoprics werofWhere were
wanted.
thought so, where were petitionstheir_oe
had
petitioned for
!he petitions of the laity ? o a
this augmentation to the Bench, of Bishops, but the Go-
vernment bad seen fit to do this unasked, and the House
of Commons were asked to sanction it. But he believed
that the opposition now given would defeat the measure,
and he believed also that her Majesty's Ministers would
be most grateful that they haddone so. He did not
thi, k that the attempt to aggrandise that portion of the
Church which was the moat open to objection, would in
env degree tend to make the Church itself popular with
the country.
Mr. C. WYNN supported the Bill. He thought the
a seat in Parliament for the 'clonal bishop
(ors
'Lion of dcl. •
a very secondary consideration, and he thought that this
question might well be considered on a future occasion.
The Hon. Gentleman opposite asked where were the pe-
titioners in favour of this Bill. .—We can now
Escott.) Now, when a member—(
of the Ecclesiastical
ar, hear, from Mr. PROROGATIONt OF PARLIAMENT
v bat Parliament will be prorogued by
Commission in 1844, he had
_ taken some pains to aseer- her -peetio non Thursday, the 22d inst.
min this, and he had found that the great majority of staTtetlesaTeEfisatant.TßlO.TELEGßAPll.—One day last week
the clergy and laity were opposed to the union of the a lady took a first-Crass ticket, at the Exeter station of
sees of St. Asaph and Bangor. the Sou:h Devon Retie ay, for Stareross, and on arriving
Sir H. R. INGLIS supported tlfe Bill, and felt greatly at her journey's &A she found, to her great chagrin,
astonished that Sir James Graham should oose it, as that she had somewhere or other mislaid it. After
it was nearly identical with the measure which he him- searching the carriage in vain, she made up her mind to
self brought forward about seven years ago. For his pay her fare again, and went towards the office for the
own„part he cordially approved of the measure, but he purpose ; meeting the station-master by the may, she
reserved to himself the right of moving that the clause mentioned her loss to him, and found, to her:great our•
limiting the prerogative of the Crown to summon the prise, that he was already informed of it. "He knew it
new Bishops to the House of Lords should be expunged half an hour ago she bad left it on the counter at the
Exeter stotion.":'The lady was delighted ; she saved
in Committee.
filet
,t,he great her money, and *As initiated into one of the mysteries of
Mr. S. WORTLEY was of opipien
increase of the temporal peerage. since the 1-4'l:7"_'44'en science at the sacab liresiern Luminary.
would. have justified an increase in the number ( hs
The HavarirrCCorernment has decided that for
in the Henze of Lords. lie would have proposed
_ that tke future no L. will be ptru.itie:l to reside in
the words in the preamble giving a quasi pl edge for
butthe Rhenish Bavaria unless able to show that he has means
creation of the additional bishops had b_ out,
of living, or has obtained a guarantee to that effect from
as these words happened to be inserted, be did not wish person residing in the palatinate.
to Dim that they &old be earned. He thought it

Main Question put, "That the Bill be now read a second
time." The House divided :
MINORITY—AYES, 52.
Agllonby, IL Zbrington, Lord Parker, John
Aldan, W. xilis, Wynn Pechell, Captain
Arundel, Earl of E.cott, Itickhana Perfect, Robert
Borthwick, eeter Gibson, T. M. Philips, Mark
Bouverie, E. P. Gore, Robert Pinney, W.
tower, Levason Rich, Henry
flowring, Dr.
Brown, .7. . Grosvenor, Lord R. Shell, R. L.
Brown, W. Hawes. B. Somerville, Sir W.
Brown, Charles .
.i,,.filii, bard Marcus Strutt, Edward
Buller, Edward 'llllldleY. Charles Thornely, Thomas
Clay, Sir W. ifinnpliery, Aid,
hionalun, .J. 11. .
Colebrooke, Sir T. Hutt, William WakleY, Thomas
Collett, John Jervis, Sir John Ward, 11. G,
enison, W. J. M'Carthy, Aiex Wilharas, W.
D'Eyncourt, T. Martin; J, •
Evans,, Sir D Lacy
Yorke, R. H.
Divett, E.
Duncan, George Mitchell ,'p, I TEuxas.
Dune mbe, T.
Dundas, Sir D. Ogle, S. G. lien. bir B.
Osborne, Ralph

MAJORITY-NOES, 53.
Archdall, Captain Egerton, W. T. Mahon, Lord
Austen, Colonel Farnham, E. B. Dimmers, Lord J.
Barrington, Lord Fuller, A. E. Milos, William
Bateson, Thomas Gardner. J. D. Mundy, E. M.
Beckett, William Gaskell, J. M. Neeld, Johns
Blackstone, W. Goring, Charles Neville, R.
Blakemore, lt. Greene, Thomas Palmer, R.
Bolder°. Henry • Hamilton, J. H. Palmer, G.
kottleld, Beriak Hamilton, G. A. Patten, J. W.
Bowles, Admiral . Hamilton, Lord C. Prime. Richard
Broadley, H. . Henley, J. W. Reid. Colonel
Carew, w. P. .. Hothani, Lord Renton, G. W. J.
Clive, R. H. • ; liouldsworth, T. , Round. J.j John
Codrlngton. Sir W: Jermyn, Earl Trotter, o
wedctincton. IL S.
Denison, E. B. Jones, Captain
Douglas, Sir C. Kelly, Sir Fitzroy TELLERS.
Duckworth, Sir J.
ewdegkite, N.
cklanonZ
Du Pre, C. G. Limit:ay. Colonel
MaW.
East, Sir J.
______—..........--,
rripps, Williatn
Lefroy, Anthon
N