The Sun.
London, England, 1812-06-20 00:00:00

ORDERS IN COUNCIL.

I ord CkSTLPREAGH having moved the Order of
the Day for a Call of the .House to be read, with
a,,view to postponing it,
Mr. BROUGHAM said, he little thought, after
what had passed cn Tuesday; that it would be-
necessary for -him .:to trouble the -House 'again
upon the Orders in Council. . After, the explana-
tion and statements of the Noble Lord, he thought
there was an end of that question ; the merchants
'of London, and the, inhabitants of all theinanu-..
-facturing districts, entertained, the sairi 'opinion ;
and he had received, that very morning, such let-
ters from.varion.s parrs, e-apressiVe hf the,ex:ulta
tion WhiCh prevailed, both among masters and
s workmen, as must rejoice the House (if they
could be prlduced)seven with what they had done
last Tuesday. What a disappointment, then,.
Must it -be to him, and-to muse who thought
with him, to find that in substance no conciliation
*as intended—and that though the principle was
given up„ it was given up in a way that could not
be • beneficial. The understanding of. Tuesday
night, as he conceived, was, that the suspension
should take place immediately ; but now it ap-
peared that-it was not to commence for six weeks;
-or till sonic negociator was sent out. It was also
' the opinion, that the Orders in Counci! were to be
abandoned altogether ; but now it seemed they,
ivare to he reviled aftar a certain interval, unless
France should in the mean time revoke her Ber-
lin and 'Milan Decrees, or America take part with
England in enforcing their revocation. FrOm be-
ginning to end the transaction was a complete
mockery. Another thing he should mention (for
Since la;t Tuesday every day brought some new
retractation), it was intended that while the Or-
der in Co-.moil were suspended, all American
vessels bound to the Continent should be brought
into our por:s, though not for adjudication. Was
this the spirit of conciliation, or was it not an
unmanly, niggardly, shuffling, prevaricating con-
duct, unworthy of the character and dignity Of
the country ? His object in bringing this Matter
before the House, was to warn his Majesty's Ti-,
nisters against committing themselves in an Order
which could not produce a particle. of good to our
commerce. He knew that they would give it
by in the end, or any thing rather, than -their
places. They had abandoned Col. M'Mahon's ap-
pointment, they had abandoned theßarrack scheme,
Zoe. so that the country was going on precisely in
the same way, and on the same train of principles,
in consequence of those concessions., as if he.and
his Hon. Friends were in. office, and the pre-
Sent Ministers condemned to the dark and dreary
knight of Opposition. He stated that a most fa-
:vourable effect was produced on the trade and
-commerce of the City, as soon as it was known
'that the Orders_ in Council were to be suspended,
and that one merchant, to his knowledge, had
Immediately set about a shipment,. which would
amount to one million, and which alOne would
he sticient to keep one hundered thousand 'peo-
ple six months in employ. Since the explanation,
, of list might, however, not one shipment waago-
ink -on- They might issue, declaration after de-
, elaration in vain, if they hung the American mar-
ket upon. any thing. that Buonap;rte would do,
for they might depend, that he would, rather
-France should perish than repeal her Decrees, if
such repeal would be attended with advantage to
- England. If they intended to save the country
from the effects of former' measures,, they should
plainly and fairlY relinquish that of which they
were prepared to give up every thing but the
name... Be -had sent that morning to Lloyd's, a
slip,inquiring at what rate goods could be ship-
peat to America, on, the understanding that
the repeal of the Orders in Council was to last
only for twelve months, unless Prance should re-
peal her. Decrees, or America ass st us against
her The answer was, that it could not be done.
There was, but one offer made, and that was at
25 guineas in the hundred. Another question
put was, at what rate it' could be done if the re-
. peal was complete ? and the answer was, at the
usual rate of three or four guineas in the hundred.
He implored Ministers either to maintain the
Orders in Council, or to give them up in such a
manner as would be attended with advantage and
relief. He wished that the House might be called
over on Thursday next, and if no satisfactory ex-,
planation should take place in the mean time, he
would submit a motion on Wednesday, respecting
the Orders in Council.

• Lord CASTLEREAGH said, he should not object
to any motion the lion. and Learned gentleman
might make preparatory to any intended motion
on the subject of the Orders in Council : heshould
-not, however, travel along with-him through an
argument of more misconception than perhaps
had ever been comprised in the same space. 'Not
contented with the single subject, he had deviated
into an episode on the situation of Ministers,
though his sentiments on that head, were not
such as he (Lord Castlereagh), was prepared to
• ~:pect. That he and his Colleague.- possessed
the confidence of the Prince Regent, that they
possessed the confidenee pf the country, he hoped ;
but really he h'ad not supposed before that night,
that they possessed. the approbatiOn of the Gen-
tlemen ou the opposite side. For his own part,
he could declare (and he believed that. those who
acted -with him would declare the same) That he
did not feel tlle least periofial gratitude to the
Hun Gentleman, for having omitted to, take the
• sense'of the House the other night. But that he

thought it would have been an unworthy triumph,
fic would himself have pressed fora division ; in-
deed he felt that the Honourable 'Gentleman bad
made submission enough ,to him. lie should not
now proceed to the notice . the inisconceptions
into which he 1-id fallen, as he was sure the
'House would be enabled to proceed better when
they had the Act of the (.4overnthent before them,
which it was competent for any Gentleman to move
for. tXe was surprised at the loose statements
and misrepresentations that had gone abroad on
the subject of conversations, said to be held with
him, 'He did not complain of those with whom

he had communicated, but when Members of Par-
iiameut tame down to the House to make such
ta teni ents , the only effect which he saw as likely
to result, was that of breaking up the confidence
which• ought to exist in such cases, and which 1,1,-)is
necessary to encourage the Government to such

communications in future. When- the papei to
which he alluded *as on the table of the. House,
he'r, ouldTherepaled to argmethe question; before
that it would be a waste of time.

. 1 r. PONSONBY begged- leave to inquire of the
Noble Lord, at what time the document to wirkh
h'e alruded might be expected to be befoit
House

Lord CASTtEREAGH said, the document must
be first priat.ed,
.after which, as soon as it was
moved for -it would be produced if the House
thought fit, but he should think such a motion
unncessnry,
Mr. PONSONBV assured -the -Noble Lord that he
:never had the least thought of calling for the
production of a dOcument whicii was not in
existence,.

General GA.KOIGNE called upon his Majesty's
.34inisteri to- inform the eonfmereial people, as
soon as pos'sible, what, they were to expect,-be-
foi-e they Proceeded any farther in their under-
takings. lie knew that rrrav persons in Liver-
pool werecalready implicated in' exports, without
knOrcing whether they would be stopped or not.
lie hoped every step would be taken to conciliate
America.. •

Mr. ROSE said, with regard to the Honourable
and Learned Gentleman's description of the lively
impression produced upon: the Merchants in the
City,_ on hearing of the suspension of the Orders
in Council, he (Mr. Rose) had never seen so
much gloom.
Mr, BROUGHAIq said that the gloom might per-
haps be more naturally accounted for, by the Loan
which was just contracted for.
MIVROSE contended that the. feeling, of the
general body of the Merchants was averse to the
proposed suspension. ,
Mr,. BARING said, that if any gloom did exist,
the Right Hon. Gentleman should charge it upon
his colleagues, whose measure it was. He- dwelt
upon the importance of comingto a specific, deci-
sion, and determining either tb support the Or-
ders in Council, or to give them up: immediately.
Ile disapproved of the House interfering with the
Negociation by any diseusSion, if it could with
propriety be avoiied.
Lord CASTLEREAGH observed that he had stated
already his reasons -for not going into the Hon!
and Learned Gentleman's misconceptions ; he
Should content himself with declaring now, that
neither the statements which had been made here
or in any other quarter, should have been al--
luded to.

Mr. ATTLBERFORCE thought, that if any con-
cession was 'made, in shoUld. be made in such a
form as Would induce America to open her ports
to us. Nothing could be more injurious than to
take a measure which would create great expecta-
tions without fulfilling them, or which would lead
the President to doubt the spirit by which they
were dictated. Many conditional orders were
given for the shipment of goods, in which a mis-
understanding might produce the worst conse-
quences.
Mr. OtNNING expressed a hope that a case
would never occur to require the instrument to be
firOnght before the House, as the tendency of such
a proccedini, mighthe.to injure the negociations.
He knew that there was great evil in uncertainty;
,and that almost any decision was better. If they,
gave lip the principle, they'shotild give it riii`iii-a
way to produce the greatest possible advantage
to the manufacturers, and if they could conceive
that the President would omit to do wha-t-the
the Congress had enabled hlin, 'it was necessary-
that our terms should be clear, that it might ap-
pear. the fault was on his side, not ours.
The call of the Houie was then fixed for Thurs-
day next.