The Sun.
London, England, 1823-03-20 00:00:00

IRISH TITHES.

• Mr. GOULBURN brought in a Bill for facilitating the corn-
mutation of Irish Tithes. The Dill was read a first time, and
ordered to be read a second time on the 23d of April, and to be
printed. •
The Right Hon. Gentleman also presented the Estimates for
Miscellaneous Services in Ireland.—The papers were ordered
to be printed.
• COMMUNICATION WITH SPAIN.

Mr. J. SMITH, seeing the Right Hon. Secretary of State for
Foreign Aflitira in his place, would take the liberty to request his
attention to a subject of great importance to the commercial inte-
rest. The Rt. Hon. Secretary was doubtless aware, that at present
it was with extreme difficulty that a communication by land could
be maintained between this country and Spain ; and it was evi-
dent that that difficulty must Shortly be increased. Under these
circumstances, he wished to know from the Right Hon. Gent.,
whether it was the intention of Government to establish, in the
usual way, a packet to Corunna ?
Mr. CANNING said,' he entertained some doubts as to
whether the establishment of a packet to Corunna would an-
swer the purpose of affecting a more rapid communication be-
tween this country and Spain than at present existed. lie
would state the grounds of his doubt. About a month ago,
having occasion to send instructions to Spain, he had dispatch-
ed two messengers thither at the same tune. One of the mes-
sengers proceeded by the way of Corunna, anti the other by the
ordinary route, and the latter arrived ten days sooner than the
former. But whether a packet were established or not, there
coubt be no doubt that some measure would be adopted by
Government for 'facilitating the communication between this
country and Spain. ,

SLAVE TRADE.. •
Mr. WILBERFORCE rose to present the Petition of which
he had -given notice, relative to Slavery in the British 1)0.
minions. (From the low tone in which the Honourable Gen-
tleman spoke, he could not be heard distinctly in the Gallery.)
The subject of the Petition, he said, was one which, from its
own peculiar nature, recommended itself most strongly to the
attention of the House. The party also from which it proceed.
ed was an additional motive for bestowing on it the mostserious
consideration ; they were a set of men who, upon very few
occasions, interfered with political concerns. He presented •it
on the part of that body of men called the Society of Friends.'
—He recollected very well, that when this important question
began to interest the public, the came body were the first who,
by petition, brought it under the consideration of the House.
They were the first who stood forward in the cause of the suffer-
ing Africans—in the cause of antral humanity, of justice, and
religion. They stated to Parliament, in opposition to those
who would support the Slave Trade on selfish and commercial
grounds, that good and sound policy could not be at variance
with justice antileligion ; and the principles thus laid down
fortunately for humanity and for the credit of the country, were
at length successful. It was from such a body the petition
came; from men of retired and serious habits, who never con-
nected themselves with party differences, anti only offered • their
sentiments to the House when they thought that justice, hina.
nity, and religion, called upon them. The petition was drawn
up in a manner becoming such a hotly—with modesty anti se.
meatless. These circumstances alone were sufficient to ensure
to the prayer of the petitioners the most serious attention. It
was, not many years back, one of the most strange anomalies
in the history of man, that the country which enjoyed in the
highest degree true liberty, that founded on equal laws, should
be found chargeable with the guilt, or to say the best of it; with
the great inconsistency of carrying ou the horrible traffic in
slaves. It was melancholy, and indeed afflicting ft> human
nature, to reflect that those who, of all others., were the most
zealous and forward in supporting their -own liberties ageinst
the invasions of power, should for so long a time have gone on
from year to year, extending with their commerce and their
victories the curses of slavery and the Slave Trade. The pe-
titioners did not confine themselves to the British Colonies
alone; they raised their voices against slavery in whatever
part of the worldit might exist. They prayed that all man-
kind might be restored to true moral dignity, which eon,
sisted in the enjoyment of freedom. There was something
peculiar hi the shiver that existed irr.one part of their domi-
nions, he meant the East. There the principle had been .esta-
blished for centuries. Slavery had formed its nest, hedgthedgedround
with the strong mounds and bulwarks raised by superstition, by

PRICE SEVENPINCE

cunning and inveterate custotn. Those, however, were gra.,
dually disapearing before the light of knowledge; and life,-;
truth; and bapniness began to dawn over those regions where.,...,
superstition anaignorance heck so long presided. There
evils they could not immediaNy remedy in the • flaste.evilsee
which. they knew front History is have existed for 20011 veep; ;
but it must be a source of exultation to every well constituted
mind to :now that they were gradually d:seppietring. Fore
these they were not accountable they had .not (tweed, theme—
It was different with their possessions in the West. Indies.
There, all the evils bad been Inflicted by-. themselves, and the
only reparation they could make was by endeavouring,
as in them lay, to improve the condition of those who had been
made the victims of a barberouseraffic, and to, omit no effort
for putting an end to it. Considering the frightful 'mess of.
evil, of inhumanity, and injustice that arose from. the . traffic in
slaves, it was wonderful that it remained so long without being
put an end to. These things, however, existed for so long a
time that they had almost settled into a part of their commercial
systein and national policy... When the abolition of the Slave
Trade was first proposed, there were various individuals
of Inghauthority and weight who said it was the ditty .of Par-
liament not to confine itself merely to the Slave Trade, but.
also to extend it to slavery itself.. Such was the opinion
of Lord Thurlow, Mr. Sheridan, and Lord Percy. lie re. 4
membered the great pleasure he derived from seeing that Noble.
man embarking with so much zeal in the cause of humanity,
At that time, however,, the friends of: abolition thought it
would be fatal to their purpose if they combined the two objects.
All who were friendly to the measure maintained - that the
best mode would be to set the example themselyee to the rest
of Europe by putting an end to the traffic. Mr. Duntles, the
late Lord Melville proposed that the Slave Trade and slavery
should cease from January 1000. Thoogh be (Mr. Wil-
berforce) knew that a vote of Parliament could not. pre-
vent the clandestine introduction of, slaves, still he thought
much might be done towards that object by acting on a bet-
ter system of registration. At one period there were eircum.
stances which led him to believe that there was an illicit its.
portation of slaves into Jamaica. This however he would nut
affirm. The principle on which those acted who did not pro..
pose the abolition of slavery Mahe Colonies, as well as the
Slave Trade, was this. They hoped that, as it would be itn- •
possible to procure • a further supply of slaves, the planters
would, for their own interest; be induced to treat them.with
more humanity, and to raise them higher in the.rank of' human -
beings ; that it would also lessen the .opposition against the
measure by not coupling the two objects together. lie remelt.,
bered well that a name
.which stood high, that of Mr. Burke, a
man of great mind and consummate , prudence, thought the
objects ha had in view could not be secured by the means pro. •
posed,•and he offered others, which might be seen in one of
the latter volumes of his works. They were well werthy of
serious consideration. They feared however that the vessel
they wished to carry safe into port might be sunk, and there-
fore they did not wish to overloud it even with valuable mate.
rials. These were the reasons on which he (Mr. W.) excused
himself for not-proposing the abolition of slavery witer._ He
sincerely believed, that as it was recammended by justice
and humanity, so the true interests of the West Indies would
be advanced by it. Ile wished the petition to be seriously
considered. Not to be taken up with violence or haste,
but examined cautiously. All •he should request was, that
the subject should be fairly and impartially dealt with ;
when it should be recollected, that there were in our
West India Colonies between 7 and 1100,000 human beings,
endowed with the same feelings and faculties as ourselves'
'and that they were so endowed had :'been satisfactorily ~
proved by those vigorous shoots of intellect which had been
sent' forth by their countrymen, and the- progress they had
made (in St. Domingo, we believe) towards humanity anti law,
proving that they were capable-of every function performed by
their fellow beings; when all these things were recollected, he
thought such a large body of persons should not be kept in the
state of degradation in which they were placed et present. Ile
• admitted, that in point of combat, as far as respected food, lodge
ing, and raiment, there was nothing to complain uf ; but when
it was remembered that we were speaking of human beings, he
thought we should not confine our consideration to animal wants
and reduce them to the state of brutes. He was not inclined to
tress heavily upon the proprietors of West India property
tor he could bear teutitrumy to the mildness and humaity with
which they treated those unhappy beings. All he desired IV/U4
that the subject should be as seriously considered as it deserved
to he, from its importance I—justice, humanity, religion, prin•
ciple, all united in demanding it. There were doebtlese teeny
lion. Gentlemen who were friendly to his views of the subject,
but who despaired of success in his abject ; to those lion. Gen-
Omen 'he could only say, that the same unpromising; appear-
fifteen attended his first attempts, thirty years ago, to put a stop
to the Slave Trade itself.—ln the present attempt he could not
but feel that he was laying the first stone of an edifice that
would rise in full and just proportion to magr.iticence. With
respect to its influence upon West India property, be felt no
doubt, that bad the abolition of the Slave frets been effected
many years earlier, the islands would be in a much more pros-
perous state than they were at present. Ile should not forther
trouble the House than to move - that the petition be.read,
trusting that .it would receive all that temperate, calm cunsi-
deration to which •it was entitled.--(Cheers.)
The petition was then read, ordered to lie upon the table,
and to be printed.

Mr. Seretary CANNING requested to know what course
the Hon. Gentleman meant to take ,

Mr. WILBERFORCE referred the Right Hon. Gentleman
to the notice about to be given by his (Mr. W.) lion. Friend
the 111 ember for NVeymouth. ti ,
Mr. BUXTON then gave notice, that he should, on the 22d.
April next, move fora Committee to investigate the state of
shivery in our West India Colonies.
COURTS OF JUSTICE IN IRELAND.
Mr. S. RICE, after some few prefatory remarks, which were
wholly inaudible in the Gallery, moved, " That the. 9th and
•
Ith Reports of the Commissioners .appointed to examine into
the Courts of Justice in Ireland, the letters of the Lord Chief
Baron, and some other papers on the subject of those Reports,
be referred to a Select t",`ommittee, who were to report their opi.
Mons and obse&ations thereon to the House. The motion was
agreed to neat. con., and the following Committee appointed
Mr. Spring Rice, Mr. Secretary Canning, Mr. Secretary
Peel, Mr.. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Williams W'ymi.
'Mr. Dawson, Mr.. Minim, Mr. Lamb, Mr. Tierney, Sir james
MaCkintosh, Sir John Newport., Dr. Lushington, Mr, Nolan;
Mr. O'Grady, Mr. Abercromby, Mr. Sturges Bonnie, Mr.
Serjeant Onhlow, Mr. Robert Smith (of Lincoln), Mr. Solid.
tor-General, Mr. Geulbitrn, Mr. Searlett„ Mr. Wilberforce,.
and Mr. DOrnan.

PROSECUTIONS role, SEDITION Arai BLASPIIEM V.
- Alt.-HUME said, that in the year 1821, he had moved for
a Return of the number of Prosecutions instituted in 0r4...at
Britain and Scotland since the year 1812, for blasphemous
and seditious libels. From some verbal inaccuracy in the
motion, or some inisappreiwnsion of its- terms, the Return
to it wits incomplete and unsatisfactory ; and he was there,
fore under the necessity of- reviving the subject. Prosccu-
linos for seditious and blasphemous libels had,, in several
instances, been carried on by certain bodies of indivi»
duals, denominating themselves Societies for the Suppres,
sion of Vice, and the Constitutional Association, instead
of their being carried on by the Constitutional Officers
of the Crown, the Attorney and Solicitor Generals. Into
the merits of these prosecutions he should not at - present
enter; hut he hail no difficulty in stating that they had pro-
duced an effect directly opposite to that which was intended.—
flear, hear 1)-11e purposed. bringing the conduct of those So.
defies under the notice of the Home by a specific motion ; but
in order to his doing so, the information far which he proposed
to move would be necessary. He moved, therefore, for a re-
turn of the number of prosecutions instituted from December.
1812, to December, 1822, on charges of publishing blasphcm,
ous or seditious libels;. distinguishing those brought b the
.Attomey-General (and, in prosecutions not brought by him,
stating the name and residence of the prosecutory; stating also
the character of each alleged offence, and thd county in which
it was charged to have been committed, stating whether the
prosecution. was brought to trial or not ; and if tried, the date
and place of trial, stating whether the aeons& was eonvicted
or aequitwd; and it convtcted, setting out the *lame and the
date t.,f its passing; runt if. the. sentence shall hate expired in
point of time, stating whether the will/it:tea has been ti iseharged,
::cut when; and if not in such ease, discharged, stating eaose
of the detention. _ •

......
M. secretary PEEL, had no objection to the motion but
he begged to obserie that there would be much difficulty and
delay in getting some of the payticulara called for. If the non.
ilember had limited his motion to cases within London and
',Middlesex, and which it appeared would in a great measure
answer his furpose the particulars could soon be obtained.
Mr, IIUAIE said, it would not answer his purpose to have

.hidtgeitiotion confined. He wanted to shew the extent of the pro-
secutions.
Mr. Secretary PEEL said, that, for instance, it could not be
supposed the Society for the Suppression of Vice extended its
proceediugs to Scotland. There might be much delay in ob-
taining returns from that part of the country.
Mr. HUME said, lie should not consider' it a delay if the
Returns were laid on the table shortly after the Easter recess.
-If these Societies had not extended their proceedings to Scot-
. the Lord Advocate could easily make a return of nil ;
and as to prosecutions instituted by 'him or his predecessors
Ai:hilly, there could be no difficulty..-,The motion was then,
agreed to.
SUPPLY—A Itlll' EX.TRAORDINARIES.
tin the motion of Mr. I.IISIIIICOTChe, the House resolved
- - into a Committee of Supply.
Mr. LUSH INGTON, in rising to move the Army Extra.
enhneries, felt it unnecesary to trouble the House with any ob-
servations; he should therefore move the first item, which was
4. ....That a sum not exceeding 420;000/. be granted to his Ma-
jesty for defraying the expences of the Army Extraordinaries
for the year 11t23.
Mr. HUM l did not mean 'to oppnire, the motion, but was
dissatisfied with the want of explanation of the various items
of the Estimates. Ile objected to the charges for the Colonies as
escessive; there was demanded for Canada no less a sum than
347,0001. exclusive of the expence incurred in this country in
preparing the troops for that Settlement. For New Brunswick
emit Nova Scotia 105,000/. were required. For Bermuda
20,000!. And he took that opportunity to condemn the intended
expendinire for the purpose of forming a harbour there. For
.lemaica 114,0001. were demanded dfor the Cape of Good Hope
- 170 0001.; where he thought much saving could be effected by a
mode of selling the lands different from that at present resorted
to, which he had xeaSen to know was influenced by favouritism.
Ile also wished to 'direct the attention of the House to the State-
ments of Mr. Gourlay, bdcause front other sources he (Mr.
Hume) learned they were entitled to consideration. In the
expences of our establishments in the Mediterranean, too, there
ought to be a reduction. No Colonies could be more unfor-
tunate—no country , was more cursed than were the lonian
Islands by, the protection of Great Britain. -The state in
which the inhabitants of those islands were kept. by the Lord
High Commissioner, Sir Thomas Maitland, was hardly cre-
dible; and he begged to mention a case in illustration, which
had come to his knowledge within a month. An officer had
been sent (from the Greek Government we believe) to the
Court of Madrid to ascertain how far the Greeke could expect
assistance from Spain,—that individual believed that had he
come to England he would be thrown into prison, but at Madrid
he was undeceived, and accordingly came over to London, where I
he then was. He (Mr. H.) congratulated the country upon the
change that had taken place within these two or three months
in our conduct respecting the unfortunate Greeks ; and that
happy alteration he could not that attribute to the accession of
the night Hon. (lent. opposite to the situation of Secretary of
State for Foreign Affairs.--(Herer o—To that Right Hon.
Gentleman he ascribed the liberal 'line of policy that we had
followed since his entrance into office.---(Cheers.)—The conse-
quence to the Luellen !elands was, that, e might withdraw 3,000
of the troops there Stationed. 7The duties of Governor of Malta
• and Lord High Commissioner of the • 'onion Islands were,
in his opinion, incompatible with each other ; and the Go-
vernment of Sir T. Maitland was represented as most cruel and
tyrannical. He thought that the expence of the 'lonian Islande
ought to have been refused in that House. He also objected to
the charges incurred by Sir T. Maitland going backwards acid
forwards. He saw a charge of' salary for C,ol. King, as Gover-
nor of Heligoland, and supposing him to be a Staff' officer, he
thought that his salary ought to be defrayed out of the Staff Eite
timates. There was one item of 300/. for half a year's allow.
once, from which it appeared that an increase had taken place
since last year ; for in last year's Estimates the whole salary had
only been charged at 400/. He thought that different and more
advantageous arrangements might be made with respect to the
`Agents connected with those Islands. All the duties which the
Agents performed might be done by other individuals in dif-
ferent stations. lie thought the accounts given of the Revenue
and Eitpenditure of New South Waled extremely unsatisfac-
tory, Again, he was anxious to see the Illilitary removed from
New Brunswick, and the Militia allowed to protect the place.
He had no hesitation in saying that the whole military esta-
blishment of New Brunswick might be dispensed with, and the
Militia safely entrusted with the defence of the place. He threw
out these observations in the hope of drawing the attention of
Government to them, and not ftom any wish to exhibit a need.
lees opposition.
Mr. W mum assured the. lion. Member.'that in the few
observations which he might find it necessary to make, he would
not depart front that spirit in which the lion. Member had
described his own observations to have been made. It could not
be expected that he should go into detail, in answering the destd.
tory observations of the lion. Member ; it would be sufficient
if he answered them
.generally to the satisfaction of the I ouse.
There were some points, however upon which the Hon. Mem-
ber had not been..eorrect at nil. With regard to the general ex-
pence of an" eolony, he conceived that the Committee would
not consult the interests.of the country if they considered it in
too narrow a point of view. With respect to die Crown lands,
eipen which the lion, Member had mole sonic observations, he
could assure him, that the subject had bean for sonic time
ureter the consideration of llis Majeety's Government. With
regard to the Cape, Alauritius, and Ceylon, the Hon. Member
was aware that a Commission had been appointed to inquire
ihto the state of these colonies ; and he would therefore only
say, that there was no subject connected with these colonies
into which the Commissioners had not been instructed to in.
quire. He trusted that great advantage would be derived from
the labours of that Coniiiitssion for they would at least fur-
nish some satisfactory data for the House to go upon. With
respect to the abuses in the lonian islands, he strongly die-
- wilted from the opinion of the flonhltlember ; nor would he,.
by silence on the present occasion, countenance the opinion that
troops had been stationed in the lonian Islands for the purpose
of repressing independence, or that they had actually contri-
butedto repress the expression of independence. Ile confessed
1;e felt sueptileil (especially as the Honourable Member must
ht6Ve been acquainted with the information which had re-
cently reached this country) to hear him make the attack
Which lie had made on the character of Sir Thomas Maitland.
With respect to the policy adopted towards the Oreelts, he was
hound in justice to say, that the only communication which lied
been Made by this Government had enforced a system of neu-
trality. Before the Hon. Member attacked the character of the
officer Who held the Administration of those Islandi, he should
- etate some distinct fact which might prove that neutrality bad
been departed from instead of indulging in general observa-
tions. With regard to the general prosperity of the lonian
Wands, he thought himself authourized in saying, that ut no
period had their prosperity been greater than that which they
now enjoyed. In reply to what the Hon. Gentleman had said on
the eulnect of agents, he would observe, that their duties were
now trebled, in comparison with what they had formerly been.
With regard to New South Wales., the revenue and the eapen-
diture of that Colony would be laid before the House, and
that was all that the Hon. Member desired. The lion. Mein,
ber,hifter meeting name other. .objections which had-been made
by We Hon. Member for Aberdeen, said, that the Government
watt us desirous as the Hon. Member of adopting a practical
economy, provided that economy was consistent with a more
extended view, with reference to the future as well as to the
present.
Mr. HUME explained.—The Hon. Gentleman bad desired
him to bring forward facts against Sir T. Maitland. Had the
Hen. Gentleman threaten the -Greek petition ? All that he
wanted on the part of Six T. Maitland was a strict neutrality ;
but hitherto, all the neutrality shewn had been in favour of the
Teaks. lie acknowledged that there had lately been a change,
in the policy of Sir T. Maitland. He had given the Bight lion.
the Secretary for Foreign Affairs credit for that change ~ but,
from what the Hon. Gentleman had said, be was afraid that he
gave that Right lion. Gentleman more credit than he deserved.
lind that all the merit of the change was due to Sir T. Maitland
himself. In mentioning the name of Mr. Gourley, lie bad not
been influenced by that Gentleman's politics. illr. Gourley
might. have been et troubleesome man in Canada, but that was
no reason why he should have been expelled. fle spoke feel.
ehigly on that subject.--(A laugh.)—lle had no hesitation in
saying that Mr. G. had been removed unjustly ; that removal
bad occasioned his ruin, and it had been merely because he had
diald liberal opinions. With respect to the defence of Canada,
he thought that the sooner this Country gave it is free Coned-
'.tution, and enabled it to defend itself, the better would it be for
both.
Mr. G. BENNET said, that he knew the-Governor of Upper
.Canada, and he believed that no man could be more disinterest.
ed than he was,
Mr. WILMOT said,ehat lie did not think Mr. Gourley had
'-been severely used; and if the lion. Member choice to bring
-the subjects before the House, lie pledged himself distinctly to
Trove that Mr. 0. had no reason to complain.
Mr. MIME said that the documents were in the hands of
'the Hon. Gentleman; but the impression upon his mind of Mr.
oourlay's ill-treatment was so strong, that he should be glad to
.hear the Hon. Gentleman make good his promise.
- Mr. WILMOT said, that as the Hon. Member had made
die charge,' it rested with him to make it the subject of a mo-
tion before the House.
Mr. HUME said, that he had no objection to move for copies
of the correspondences
The Resolution was then agreed to.
The next Resolution Was for 203,0001. for the Commissiariat
a Great Britain for the year 1823.
M. lIUMB said, that he was willing to.allow that the ac-
coonta had been simPlified and some reduction:4 tnadie, but the
ENC.nates were still capable of further reduction. He would
wic, what was the number of wrist Canaria ?He found that
in Canada there were 313 Comm Clerks employed for

the -few troops -which were kept there. In Nova Scotia there
were 14 Commissariat Clerks, when one-third of that number
would be sufficient. Again, in Malta, which had but one gar-
rison, there were seven Commissariat Clerks. Expence was
multiplied without any additional security. A very consider-
able reduction had taken place since last year, and therefore he
did not think it necessary to be severe in his observations. He
would wish to know, with regard to, a corps of Wagoners, the
expence of which was considerable, whether such a corps was
serviceable. He hoped that without any injury to the establish-
ment, the service of this corps might be dispensed with.
Mr. LUSHINGTON said, that since the last year 70 officers
had been reduced, and amore fallacious criterion than that re-
sorted by. the Hon. Member could not easily be conceived.
Everyreduction, however, which was practicable should be
i made n that establishment.
The Resolution was then agreed to.
On the motion that the sum of 40,0001. should be granted
for repairing public buildings,
Mr. BENNET rose, and said that he was desirous upon this
vote of calling the attention of the House to the neglected state
of the Parks. They were left open during the night, and the
scenes which frequently occurred Within their walls were such as
to baffle all description. When he said that the Parks were open
all night, he did not mean to float that every single gate was
extended wide for public reception. It was an undeniable fact
that the gate at Piccadilly was closed at- the approach of night,
hut it was just as certain that the amiable disposition ofthe lady ,
who presided over that barrier yielded to the solicitations of the
passengers, and gave theM too easy admission.—(A laugh.)—
Indeed the Parks*, instead of being a delightful source of recre-
ation to the inhabitants of this city, became the receptacles of the
worst crimes, add the haunts of the most profligate and aban- 1
doned characters: He remeMbered the period when he was
himself a boy, and when he had enjoyed all the pleasures of
which that season of innocence was capable, which he had de-
rived in the midst of those very Parks, where now there was no
delight to be derived except the very unenviable pleasure of be-
holding cows and Park-keepers. Ile did not know where the
fault originated, but of this he was.quite certain, that it deserv-
ed attention.
Mr. PEEL admitted that it was very desirable that the Parks
should be placed in a very different situation from that in which
they were at present ; and he was quite sure that the public
would willingly incur the expence of placing them in a more
suitably condition. With regard to the cows which were so un-
pleasant to the vision of the Hon. Member, he believed that
they-were there for the advantage- of the Parktkeepers, whose
salaries he understood were so limited as to make it expedient
formerly to concede to them this privilege. Upon the first com-
munication of this circumstance to him, he had observed that
the salaries ought to be increased by the police, and that such
an inconvenience should not be any longer permitted to exist.
He was then. told that the citizens of London would feel great
inconvenience, and indeed annoyance, if these cows were re-
moved.—(:l laugh.)—Thaf they were a source of great satis-
faction to them, and that they occasionally administered, in no
trivial degree to the amusement of their children.—(Laugliter.)
—Under these circumstances, he owned he was cautious of in-
terrupting such long-established pleasantry.; but be was of
opinion that the subject required attention.
Mr. Alderman WOOD suggested that great advantage
would arise to those citizens for whose comfort he was delighted
to perceive that the Right Hon. Gentleman entertained so very
laudable a desire, by removing the Fleet Prison from its pre-
sent situati‘a, and by levelling Fleet-market.
Some conversation then arose between Mr. DAWSON, Mr.
HU ME, and Mr. Alderman Woon, as to the propriety of re-
ducing the salary of any Marshal who may be appointed here-
after to the Prison of the King's Bench.
Mr. Alderman WOOD contended, that the House ought
not to giant 4000/. for the purchase of Mr. Justice Park's house
in , Lincoln's Inn-fields, for the erection of an Insolvent
Debtors' Court, when there were Courts, not only at the Old
Bailey, but in the Guildhall, which were not only convenient,
hut could be cheaply procured for that purpose. He should
therefore object to the grant of 40001.
Mr. LUSIIINGTON said, that the grant was necessary to
defray the amount of expences incurred lastyear.
Mr. HUME asked how much of the public money had been
applied to that purpose ?
Mr. LUS111?.1(;TON could not say, but if the lion. Mem-
ber required it, he would have no objection to lay the account
before the House.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said, that the Insolvent
Debtor's Court, being one of record, a place to keep its papers
were necessary. A Court-house was also necessary, in order
to enable the Commissioners to sit twice a week, as required by
the Act of last Session.
Mr. Alderman W 001) contended, that when the two Courts
should be built at the Old Bailey, of which the opinion of the
Judges had stated the ttecessity,the Commissioners would have
every convenience. The vote was then agreed M. .
£5,0110 for the extraordinary expenee incurred in the prose.
cations for debasing the coin of the realm last year.
- £05,000 for law expences last year. • . -
02,000 for maintaining the convicts at home.
£lB,OOO for the Milbank Penetentiarv.
Mr. BENNET expressed his wishes that- the House should
have full information laid before it relative to the state of per-
sons in that prison.
Mr. Secretary PEEL said thatthe Report would be laid be-
fore the House to a fortnight. 1
£3,000 for the National Vaccine Establishment.
Air. 11U31E wished to know what the advantages of that 1
institution were. Ile had proposed to the Hon. Under Secre.l
tary to let-the House know what the number of inoculations
during the last year were. Thesmall-pox institutions had in-
oculated
3,800 last year; and even the small-pox institution at
lValworth had been of great benefit to the nation. -Vaccine
inoculation was a great benefit to the nation-; and notwithstand-
ing the few- cases cited, it continued to bee universal preventive
of dangerous infection. As he considered the application of the
present grant to be worse than useless he should oppose it.
Mr. DAWSON said, that he had endeavoured to prepare
the Accounts Moved for by the Hon. Member, and that he had
no objection to postpone the consideration of that Vote until the
1 Report was before the Reuse. The public derived great advan-
' take from the Vaccine Establishment ; for it afforded the means
of having the Vaccine matter properly conveyed to all parts of
the kingdom.
Mr. HUME objected only to the -grant' of 6001. a year to
eight of the chief Physicians of this 'Capital, who were mean
enough to accept the small sum of 100/. a year each from a
public Charity. Such conduct had caused the estrangement of
Dr. Jenner from that Institution. •
Mr. DAWSON complained of the attack made on the cha-
racter of respectable Gentlemen, who did their duty to the
public for a much less emolument than they could otherwise
obtain for their time.
Sir 13. W. GUISE wished to know if' a monument would be
erected to the memory of Dr. Jenner ?—lle hoped the grant
would be moved for that purpose.
Mr. Alderman WOOD would not oppose the vote; for he
hoped that if the vote should be passed, those Gentlemen to
whom the House would give the sum of 1001. a-year, would at
least subscribe one year's annunity to the erection of that
monument.
-Mr. BRIGHT expressed his willingness to vote for the mo-
nument to Dr. Jenner. .
Mr. WHITMORE bore testimony to the utility of the In-
stitution for Vaccine Inoculation, which, he hoped, would be
well conducted.
Mr. Secretary PEEL hoped that the ,Hon. Member would
not object to the vote, upon an assurance that the Report would
be laid as soon as possible before the House.
Mr. H IJM E thought that the money might as well be thrown
away as it was, if the House was disposed so to do.
The vote was then agreed to.
£40,000 for the .expencem in the Abolition of the Slave-Trade.
Dr. LUSHINOTON wished to know the specific objects
to which that money would be applied ; for the whole it would
be inefficient, for a part itieffectual, towards alleviating the hor-
rors of that odious trafiliV '
Mr. LUSHINGTON had no objection to lay the whole
matter fully before the House. The expence of' last year had
been about 39,0001. Upon that the present estimate was
formed.
Dr. LUSHINGTON said, that he was sure that sum would
not be sufficient this year for all the Negroes captured in defiance
,of the treaties. He therefore hoped that the estimate would be
made as regular as possible.
Sir C. AItBUTHNOT said, that the expences were as far
arranged as they could be as yet. .
The vote was then passed,
£22,650 for making good the deficiencies of the Fee Fund
from the Treasury Department. ,
.C 15,000 for the deficiencies of the Fee Fund front the Ex-
checjuer.
#.26,000 for the deficiencies of the Fee Fund from the Fo-
rein Department.
£13,303 for the deficiencies of the Fee Fund from 'the Colo-
nial Department.
£101386 for the deficiencies of the Fee Fund from the Privy
Council Department. .
£lO,OOO for the contingent expences of Messengers and their
Bills on the Treasury.
Mr. HUME complained of the great increase of expences in
that department.
Mr. VILMOT maintained that it was not more expensive
than in 1795.
The following Resolutions were then agreed to :
£lO,OOO for the contingent expences and bills of Messengers
in the Treasury Department.
£10,996 for similar expenses in the Home Secretary's Office.
£39,026 for similar expences in the Office of the Foreign Se-
cretary of State.

£8,276 for similar expences in the Office of the Colonial Se-
cretary of State.
£3,277 for similar expences in the Board of Trade.
A sum of 2,238/. for similar expencetfin the Department of
the Lord Chamberland of the Household was proposed.
Mr. HUAIE objected to the grant, which he thought ought
to be charged in the Civil list.
lUr. LUSHINGTON withdrew the Resolution.
£5,070 was voted for the Salarics,of Officers on the Receipt
side of the Ucurt of Exchequer.
£OO4O fo the Salaries of the Commissioners' Clerks and for
the contingent expences of the Court for the Relief of Insolvent
Debtors'.
Alderman WOOD opposed this resolution, but after a little
discussion it was agreed to.
£lO5B Ss. for paying the salaries of certain Professors in the
Universities of Oxford and Cambridge.
4.15,44.0 for the expences of the Houses of Lords and Com-
mons.
.1:23,237-for the Salaries and allowances of the Officers of the
Houses of Lords and Commons.
£4,800 for.the Extraordinary Expences in the Office of the
Lord Chamberlain of the Household; and for the Furniture
and fitting up of the two Houses of Parliament for the year
1823. _ _ _ _

f.:50;000 for Foreign and Secret Service Money.
Mr. HUMS wished to, know how much of this was expended
in Clerks, &c., and how much of it was at the disposal of
Minister's ?
Mr. HUSKISSON declined giving the information called
for ; because the giving of it would violate the principle upon
which the Vote was founded, namely, that the only account
which was to be given was the oath of the Secretary of State,
stating that the money voted was expended in services which it
would be inconvenient to the public service to have disclosed.
£10,147. 13s. I Id. for Printing Public Records.
£17,000 for Printing Acts of both Houses, and the Bills,
Reports, and Evidence, before the House of Lords, for 1323.
£3,500 for printing 1750 copies of the 78th vol. of the Jour-
nals of the House of printing}

for printing the Votes. of the house of Commons.
£OB Bs. for makilig good the deficiency of a grant for print-
ing the Votes of the last Session of Parliathent.
£20,000 for printing Bills, Papers, &c., by order of the House
of Commons during the present Session of Parliament.
£3,000 for reprinting Journals and Reports of the House of
Commons.
£16,150 for the reliefof Toulonese and Corsican emigrants, &c.
£7,000 for the relief of American Loyalists.
' £3300 for the expence of confining and maintaingeriminal
Lunatics.
Mr. HUME said, he understood that a gentleman (Mr.
Macintosh, as was understood) who bad been tried forforgerv,
snd was found by the Jury to be insane, was confined in Bed-
lam ; but that the report of the Physicians stated him to be
sane at present. He wished to know why this gentleman, or
others in similar situations, should continue to be an expence to
the country, ?
Mr. DAWSON—The Hon. Member was not correctly in..
formed with respect to that gentleman. The report of the
PhysiCians stated him sane on some subjects only, but insane
on others.
£6136 Bs. 10d. for paying poor French Protestant Clergy and
Laity, and for the poor of St. Martin-in-the-fields, &c.
£10,567. 16s. Bd. for the allowances and compensations
granted to persons retired from public offices and the public
service.
The House resumed, and the report was ordered. to be re-
ceived to-morrow.