The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-05 00:00:00

LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 5, 1842,

out the aid of the State, must be discontinued at the
very time when they were most necessary ; for the
purpose of encouraging and improving the condition of
the agricultural labourers of that country, and for fur-
nishing the means for giving constant employment to a
large portion of the population for the next four years
at leapt, but not withdrawing them from agricultural
employment by giving them too easy or too well paid
work. The object was to facilitate the improvements in the
internal communication of the country, at a time when
capital from private individuals was checked, on account
of the deplorable condition of the people. Entertaining
great respect for his Noble Friend in another place (Lord
G. Bentinck), and for his Noble and Learned Friend in
that House (Lord Brougham), he could notallow it to go
forth that the scheme propounded by his Noble Friend
had for its object to increase the value of railway shares,
because it had for its object, as be had said, the promo-
tion of great national improvements of great public
advantage, without casting any additional burdens on
the people of this country.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord BROUGHAM thought his Noble Friend must
have been attending to something else, and not being
able to listen to two things at once, had attributed a
statement to him which he did not make. He did not say
that the object of the Bill was for the purpose of bene-
fiting private individuals by enabling them to sell their
shares at a higher value than they could at present. Un-
doubtedly the groundwork of the measure was to apply
capital to Irish railways, and to enable railway owners
to sell their railway shares. What he stated
was that for every 1001. worth of shares sold out another
100/, worth would be bought in. He had not read the
debate of last night—in fact, he was not often in the
habit of reading them—but a friend had informed him
that the Bill would enable the holders of shares to sell
them, and to invest their capital in others. He had no
monomania against railways; he only wanted to see
them carried out at the expense of their promoters, and
not at the expense of others.
The Duke of RICHMOND could not allow the mea-
sure to be disposed of in the present manner without
saying a few words on the subject. It was a measure
calculated to be of more permanent service than any
measure which had ever been introduced since he had been
in that House. It appeared to him to commence
at the right end—(Cheers)—and would induce capital
to flow from this country to Ireland, and the conse-
quence would be that the Irish people would consume
more exciseable articles, be better able to live on the
produce of their own agriculture, it would improve the
morals of the people, and it would also be the means of
enabling them to consume more manufactured
goods, and thereby extending the borne markets, which
after all, was the foundation of the great prosperity of
this country. Ile did not oppose the motion of his
Noble and Learned Friend, and he hoped that there
would be enough English and Scotch Members to
carry that Bill through, who were not in the least
connected with railways. (Cheers.) The people
of England were not called upon to give money by this
measure to the people of Ireland; the measure was one
which wculd take nothing out of the pockets of the
people of England, but would give support to the people
of Ireland.—(Cheers.)
Earl FITZWILLIAM said that he had nothing to
offer in opposition to the motion of the Noble and
Learned Lord. He regretted the tone of the conversa-
tion n hick had taken place on the subject. It might be
considered that the Noble and Learned Lord had some
sidelong view in wishing to have the names of :all
those persons who might be possessed of shares in Irish
railways. He was aware, on looking to the votes
of the House of Commons that a measure bad been in-
troduced into that House for the purpose of facilitating
the making of railroads in Ireland. He then looked
anxiously to see whether the Bill was brought in by the
Noble Lord at the head of the Government ; he
was disappointed, however, to see that the Noble
Lord was not the author of the Bill ; but
when he saw, not from the official accounts, but from
accounts, though not official, perhaps quite as accurate,
that the Bill was in such very able hands as the Noble
Lord's who had introduced it, he was much gratified.—
(Loud cheers.) 'lhe Noble Lord had exhibited zeal,
industry, and ability which had entitled him
to the gratitude of the Irish people and the
united empire. He wished that the measure had been
in the hands of the Government, and that they had
had the credit of introducing such a crowning measure
as had been introduced.—(Cheers.) He hoped there
would be no interference with the prerogative to pre-
vent the measure passing.—(Cheers.) He came down
to the House determined to express his opinions upon
the subject ; and, considering the relation in which he
stood with her Majesty's Government, he felt it his duty
to state to them what course he meant to pursue.
He bould not conceive that, as they were not the au-
thors of the measures, it would not be agreeable to
them that he should rise and express his opinions in
favour of the measure.—)Cheers.) In whatever hands
the measure may be in, when it came up to their Lord-
ships' House, he was determined to give it his most
strenuous and undivided support. He certainly thought
that the Railway system should be in the hands of the
Government rather than of Individual members or com-
panies, who would be supposed always to study their
own interests rather than the great interests o the whole
country, and especially Ireland in its present state. i
He had deep rooted opinions that the whole railway
system should be in the hands of the Government. It
was a most anomalous thing, that all the means of
railway should be in the hands of some
great companies. These opinions he had entertained
and expressed, for many years, to their Lordships.
He hoped the Government would take the measure into
their own hands, as he believed it would be more use
than any other measure which had been brought under
the notice of the House by her Majesty's Ministers
Now he was not going to express any opinion, either for
or against the landlords of Ireland, but he thought
that the measure which contemplated the im-
provement of the country through the instru-
mentality of one class could not possibly produce
those beneficial results which they ought to
contemplate. He thought, connected with this great
measure of railways, there ought to be a system of
emigration, if not carried on, at least largely assissed,
by Government. —tHear, hear.) He thought that
the persons employed upon railways ought to
have the opportunity of emigrating gradually
and he was decidedly an advocate for some gradual sys-
tem of emigration going on throughout the whole sur-
face of the land. Upon these grounds he was
decidedly of opinion that, instead of these
railways being entrusted to private companies,
ought to be taken up and constructed ny Government at
the public expense.—(Hear, hear.)
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said he did not in-
tend to oppose the return, nor did he apprehend that
the motion would have given rise to any discussion.
After what had fallen, however, from the Noble Lord.
who had just resumed his seat, he must be allowed
to say a word or two. The particular preroga-
tive the Noble Earl had alluded to was ono of the
most constitutional prerogatives attached to the
Crown, and one which it would be injudicious
and unwise to abandon in any instance. As yet
it had not been interposed to stop this measure, but
whether it would be exercised by the Crown would
depend upon the opinion entertained by her Majesty's
advisers as to the degree of mischief the measure
was likely to produce upon the public interest.
He was surprised that this observation should have been
made on a motion like this, and especially one which
had been made without notice.
The Earl of WINCHILSEA could not refrain from
making a few observations, for no man felt more deeply
the distress of his fellow-countrymen than he
did ; and while he gave the Gorernment all
credit to her Majesty's Government for their intentions,
and while he fully appreciated the difficulties with which
they had to contend, he still must say that the measures
which they proposed to introduce would never prove of
any permanent utility to the people of Ireland. The
population of that country bad been doubled within
the last twenty years, and it was perfectly clear that the
land could never provide sufficient employ= nt of the
poor of that country, and they would be driven into some
extensive measure of colonisation to relieve the country of
its surplus population. He has always advocated
some system of colonisation, yet if it were to be
carried out to any effective extent, it would require
an outlay of at least 4,000,000/. or 5,000,0001. per an-
num. This was not a greater sum than the plan pro-
posed by his Noble Friend in the otber House, and he
did think that if that plan were adopted, it would, by
facilitating intercourse throughout the county, be
productive of excellent results, and return a
large advantage to this country for the outlay
that was made to effect. Yet, at the same time, he still
believed that the Government would be driven into
some great and comprehensive scheme for the perma-
nent improvement of Ireland.

(LEFT SITTING.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock.
NEW MEMBERS.

Earl GROSVENOR and Lord ROBERT GROSVENOR took
the oaths and their seats—the former for Chester, in
the place of his uncle, and the latter for Middlesex,
in the place of Mr. Byng, deceased,
SECOND READINGS.

The following Bills were read a second time, and or,
dered to be committed:—

Bristol and South \Vales Junction Railway and Ansi

Ferry.
Direct -London and Portsmouth and London, Brighton,
and South Coast Railways Amalgamation.
Doddington Rectory Division.
Glasgow, Airdrie, and Monklands Junction Railway
(Cowlairs, Carmyle, Central Junction, and Coplaw-
hill Branches, and Montrose-street Terminus).
Glasgow, Airdrie, and Monklands Junction Railway
(Cowlairs Branch).
Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock, and Ayr Railway, and
Ayrshire and Bridge of Weir Railway (No. 3).
Glasgow, Dumfries, and Carlisle Railway, and Glasgow,
Paisley, Kilmarnock, and Ayr Railway (No. 2).
Kingston-upon-Thames Small Tenements.
Liverpool, Manchester, and Newcastle-upon-Tyne Junc-
tion Railway.
London and North-Western Railway (Purchase of the
Earl of Ellesmere's interest in the Manchester South
Junction and Altrinchain Railway).
Liskeard and Launceston Branch Railway.
Lynn and Ely Railway (Extension to Sp.ildinz and
Holbeach).
Lynn and Ely Railway (Extension to Bury St. Edmund's).
Llynvi Iron Company.
Manchester and Lincoln Union Railway Deviation.
Manchester, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire Railways
(Louth and Ilorncastle and East Lincolnshire Junction
.
Branches)
_ _ _ _

Manchester Markets.
Norfolk Railway (from Thetford to the Lowestoft Rail
way near Reedkam, with a Branch to Hales worth).
North-Western Railway (Diversions at Skipton, Caster•
ton, and Sedbergh).
Preston and Wyre Railway.
Reading, Guildford, and Reigate Railway.