The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-13 00:00:00

MORNING EDITION.

he would ask if their actual annual loss - had amounted to any-
thine, like that sum?--.e Hear, hear.) If any Hon. Mem-
ber were prepared to maintain that position, he must do so in
contradiction to all the returns which had been laid before
that House.—(Cheers.) What had been the conduct of the
West India interest? Had they endeavovoured even to raise
productions by means of free labour, so as to enter into compe-
tition with slave labour ? They had done no such thing.
They had always preferred lazily trusting to party interests in
that House to exerting themselves in their own islands. What
had been the first thing they had done aster the ,emancipation ?
Their first was to import the Hill Coolies from the East In-
dies, but they had managed that proceeding so badly as to re-
tard for many years the introduction of free labourers into
those colonies. Great facilities should be afforded for the
emigration of labourers to the West Indies. The position in
' which they had placed those islands was a false one. The eon-
dition of the labourer had been raised above that of the mid-
dling classes in many countries. If they could not be induced,
he (Mr. V. Smith) would not compel them to work; but he
did contend that they ought to allow. free trade in labour all
over the world, and that rivalry would be most beneficial both
to the colonies and the mother country. It might be said on
the other side, if the negroes were in such an excellent con-
dition, why alter that condition by the introduction of foreign
sugar? His object was to put them in a fair condition.
There was a state of things arising in the West Indies,
which, if not checked, would supersede the planters
in their proprietary rights. The labourers were now
gradually acquiring property themselves ; and, if they did not
do something to ie press upon them the necess:ty of labour, they
would see small occupancies and tenancies in all directions, and
the most vicious state of property that ever existed. There
was no set of men in the world who had displayed more apti-
tude and ingenuity than the negroes ; and in all their sufferings
they had shown no disposition to revolt, but had borne, with
patience, all their hardships. They had borne prosperity with-
out exultation. They had reason to expect from these people
that they would see the dilemma in which they were placed, and
would know that, if they did not consent to labour for the
planters, they would be superseded by slave labour. And the
people of this country had a perfect right to call upon them to
exert themselves in their behalf, as they had exerted them-
selves for their negro brethren.—( Hear, hear.) It had been
frequently said, in the course of that debate, that the opening
of fresh markets must increase the demand for slave-labour.
They had to choose between two very great evils—the distres.ed
condition of their own population, and the chance of creating some
-distress to the negro population.—(Hear, hear.) Tee.y had
no direct power over the negro population of other countries,
and he begged to ask Hon. Gentlemen opposite whether they
were more likely to gain the votesof the Brazilian Congress by
exclusive dealing, or by free commercial intercourse? That
was their position. If they refused to have any traffic with
them, they were throwing away the means of e.oing a great
good with much uncertainty as to whether they were doing
any good at all. Nor could he agree with the statement made
to the House, that exclusive dealing was the oily mode of sup-
pressing the slave-trade. His Noble Friend (Lord Howlok)
had referred to the successful exertions of Captain Diemen
with regard to this traffic, and every day brought information
of a similar kind. He had recently received a communication
from Captain Tucker, who was stationed on the coast of Afri, a,
stating that by blockading the mouths of the rivers, he would
soon be able to put an end to the slave-trade. The plan
which had been adopted fur the civilisation of Africa, might tend
greatly to produce the same result. He had already stated that he
should not enter into the larger question of free trade; but he
must say that he was net er more rejoiced than he had been
at the introduction of these measures by his Right Hon.
Friend, because he conceived that they were then starting
upon great principles, which must be the subject of discourse
for many years to come.--( Hear, bear, and cheers from the
Tory benches.) He hoped,ehat the House understood the
meaning of the cheer, as he meant to elicit it by what lie had
stated. He was prepared to support any Ministry which
would bring forward measures similar to those that had been
propounded to the House by his Right Hole Friend. On the
question of the Corn-laws he would not now dwell, but he
would merely say, in conclusion, that he was prepared to
support the resolution that had been proposed en the subject.
Lord STANLEY then rose, among some cheering, and
said, that although he was well aware at this period' of the
night, and after so many nights' discussion, it was little likely
that he, or any one, could add much that 'Was inte.esting.
Yet, considering the prominent part he had taken upon this
question, he felt bound to trouble the House with stating, as
shortly as he could, the grounds upon which he gave his con-
currence to the amendment of his Noble Friend, the Member
' for Liverpool, and would vote against the plan brought for-
ward by the Chancellor of the Ex-chequer.—(Hear, hear.)
He used the worth, e the plan of the Chancellor of ti.e Exche-
quer," because his Hon. Friend, the Member for Halifax, last
night had stated that the subject they had to discuss was seine
new mode of carrying on the commercial concerns of the coun •
try. The Hon. Member for Carlow; who had spoken in the early
part of the evening, had said that they, on that side of the House,
not venturing to meet the proposition ire front; they were
meeting it by what the lawyers would call ademurrer. Now,
with all due deference to the Hon. Member for Carlow, he
thought they could not have taken a more direct course. Her
Majesty's Ministers propounded what they called a Budget to
the House—that Budget was to provide •for the deficencies
in the revenue, with the exception of a small sum of 7000001.,
and upon the question of going into Committee of the first
financial part of the proposition, by which this amount was to
be made up, his Noble Friend the Member for Liverpool
had told him, in direct terms, that he would not go into Com-
mittee, and assigned his ground upon the resolution of what he
intended to do. The Hon. Member for Halifax stated that the
real question they had to discuss was how the commercial relations
of this country could he best carried on. Now, with all due
submission to the Hon. Member, he would contend that that
was not the question for their decision that night. The ques-
tion for the decision of the House was, would, or would they
not, assent to the proposition of the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, with the view of lowering the duties on foreign sugar,
for the purpose of raising the 700,0001. which would be defi-
eietit in the revenue. He (Lord Stanley) did not object to
what had been stated by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that
this was only part of his plan, that he intended to include the
timber duties, and the corn duties, and so on' and that they
must all hang or fall together ; but what he complained
of was, that the House had been kept in the dark as to
what the plan really was. He thought that the Government
should have gone one step further, and told the House what
this new plan really was. The Hon. Gentleman the Member
for Halifax, had told them that the pi inciple was tree trade.
Sow, they had not heard a word either from that side of the
House co• the other, except from the Hon. Member for the
City of London, who advocated the principles of free trade on
that subject. if he (Lord Stanley) understood those principles,
they wet e, that you should buy the cheapest mai ket; that
there should be no restrictive duties, but that when duties were
nt,cessary to be imposed, ti e). should be as light as possible.
But to assert the pi inciple more froadly, it would be to
charge nothing upon those articles of primary necessity and
I general consumption. Now, if these were the aoctrines of free
trade, what approach, he would ask, was made to them in the
present proposition?—( Hear, hear.) In free trade there was
no question between monopoly on the ore hand and restriction
on the other. A Noble Lord in that House, and a Noble Lord
in the other, a Member of the Government, had stated that the
object of the Government was protection—protection arid nut
free trade—protection and rot prohibition, was toe principle
i,li which that side of the House was: prepared to concur.
How, he would ask, could the Government stand forward as
advocates of free trade, and bring forward these measures with
respect to timber, corn, and sugar? The Noble Lord said he was
a free trader in timber, but what did he do, why he kept up the
discriminating dirties between Canadian and Baltic timber.—
( Hear, hear.) He admitted sacrificing free trade fur the pur-
poses sf revenue ' • and such being the case how, he would ask,
could he claim fur him.eif and the Government that they
were the advocates of free trade Hear, hear. )
He would now take the article of sugar. The Noble Lord,
with his principles of free trade, had stated that lie was anxious
to abolish all the burdens that pressed
,upon the people, and to
impose the lightest duties upon the articles which entered most
largely into general consumption. The Noble
.Lord proposed
to effect a reduction of six-tenths of a farthing in the pound
on sugar, but he lest on the whole of the duty on British and
toreign sugar, and for the purposes of revtnue he imposes a
tiuty of HZ per cent. beyond the value of the article.— (Hear,
hear.) The Noble Lora might be right, and he might be com-
pelled by the circumstances in which the finances of the
country were placed to de so; but when he taked of the prin-
ciples of free trade, and that his plans were to astonish all
succeeding times, as they eclipsed all former, Governments,
he must say that the taxation which he did not reduce de-
prived him of the character of a friend to free trade.—
( Hear, hear.) His Right Hon. Friend, the President of the
Board of Trade, had stated that they were proceeding on the
principles of illr, Huskisson. lie (Lord Stanley) had fur
some short time acted in confidential communication with the
late Mr. Huskisson, and he looked to his authority with as
sincere respect as any Gentleman on the other side of the
House. But what were the doctrines of Mr. Huskisson? N 1 ere
they the doctrines of free trade on the one hand, or of mono-
poly on the other ? They were neither the one nor the other
—they were the doctrines of common sense—(Hear, and
cheers)—they were the doctrine of competition, checked, and
limited, and regulated by protection—( Hear, ht ar.) Ile
was happy to receive these cheers from the other side of
the House, because he was endeavouring to establish
that what they were now to discuss was not some
new principle—that there was no broad line of de-
marcation which it was impossible to pass between Hon.
Gentlemen on the one side and the other.—( Hear.) He re-
peated, that he adopted the principles of Mr. Huskisson to the
fellest extent—namely, that protection should be substituted
for prohibition; and he was ready to go further, and state, as a
commercial maxim, that that protection should be limited to
the minimum amount which, giving reasonable and fair encou-
ragement to their own rroducers, should admit the competition
of foreign parties, and be a check upon them.-(Hear, hear.
.ri
the
Now then, as they were agreed upon the principle, but
hteliceadi...
fficulty was, to ascertain the point at which protection )
prohibition. It was a matter of principle to
ascertain
one rt!lside, or
dwindled away and became no protection on print
at which protection merged in prohibition on
eap
tn
- -
reared to him that that was no question to ditele Gentlemen
because it was
other. It
on the one side from the other, bee
case must' • stand upon
agriculturist.
He question upon which each
all the circumstances
its own basis, and upon
stite naturally and necessarily
which in this highly artificial
Now with oregard te the prot
attended it.—( Hear, hear.) and the • ;e`.
htaot thethe
tion to be given to the manufacturer
He thought it was manifest to the Hetre?tion must
o u.et
be considered at all events with reference
were placed. The manufacturer
had in which they
locale
had the power of selecting his own _ of a. plying h s
capital in that part of the country in which from various circuits-
stances his trade found itself most advantageously situated, and
could be most economically worked. hat trianufacture he
could extend to an indefinite amount within the locality, limited
er of production and the:power of •
only by the pow
articles
in consumption ;
and with respect to lnch machinery entered into
the manufacture more than . hmnan labour, he code
calculate with great precision the prime cost of
the article, and upon what •e:
terms he could
meet the foreign manufacturer M she' market. With the
agricultural produce the case was much miatecemplicatee and
difficult. His labour was spread neer:the whale surface of the
' country, and was subject. to the influence ofesarmus soils and
different degrees of fertility, which he could -not fozeake or
alter. He was dependent, or nearly altogether, so, upon
manual labour, and after he had expended alb his powers—
after he had applied his best skill and art-aster he con-
sulted the means of draining his lands; and devised the moat
effectual rotation of his crops, made the best selection of his
seed, and cultivated his laud with unremitting diligence,
the issue was not in his own hands but that of a higher
Power than his.—(hear, bear, hear,) The sun and the
rain, the wind and the storm—the various temperatures
of ;he atmosphere, thine temperatures which the mannfacturer
hid the paver of creating for himself, and'adapttne to the pe-
culiar fabric which he intended to produce, and which was es-
eential to its due production. These were not tinder the con-
trol- of the agriculturist, and thence a greater uncertainty and
fluctuation upon the prime cost of whatever skill, I.lerur, and
indestry he applied to the production , and in applying to the
agriculturist the same principles that were applied to the menu-
tut:turtle they must make au allowance for the alternation of
bea,ons, for the different -circumstances under which he
was called
uponto compete. with' foreign rivalry,
and in which they could only take an average of seasons,
in apportioning the protections to be affo-cledtohim.— (Loud
cheers.) The question was a very complicated and abstruse
aitd ha did not pretend to be deeply,akilled lathe practical
of 438 working of the sNstern:-..He knew •enongh of it,
;70,7-0, to know that it was.a complicated.diffieult ono,
ane, fie trembled when he retacted,- upon.: the circumspection
that *as ntteEary In PRlcachlrg such a subject. Dqt adoslt-