The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-15 00:00:00

ceive the amount larger than the amount he had calcu-
lated on.—(Cheers.) Ile would look at it in another
point of view, and he would appeal to the experience of
any gentleman who had an opportunity of ascertaining
the habits of the lower and middle classes of society,
whether he was not aware that among those classes,
during the last two years, the habit of consuming sugar
increased to such an extent that the stocks of the grocers
had been materially reduced.—(Cheers.) But during
the last year the poorer classes had been obliged to give
up the use of sugar, or, which materially affected their
welfare, to use adulterated sugar to a great extent.—
(Cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman had borne his testi-
mony to the character of two of the witnesses who had
been examined before the Committee, and, therefore, it
was not necessary for him to insist upon the high cha-
racter and intelligence of these gentlemen. But what
did they say ? Why, they said this, that the moment
the price of sugar was raised above 605., the consumption
fell off, but that as long as you could keep the price at
from 50s. to 605., you might look for an almost inter-
minable consumption, for a consumption, in fact with-
out limit.—(" Hear hear," from Mr. Goulburn.) He
knew what the Right Hon. Gentleman meant by that
cheer. The Right Hon. Gentleman admitted it in his
speech the other evening. The Right Hon. Gentleman
said, " Let sugar alone, you will your get 700,000/. ; it
is my opinion you will get more."—(" Hear, hear," from
Mr. Goulburn.) It was admitted then that he would get
his 700,000/.—(Hear, hear.) What then became of all
the taunts which he had heard on the subject ?—(Cheers
from the Ministerial benches.) What then became of
the observation of the Noble Lord the other night,
that he would not get anything like that money ?
(Cheers.) What, then, became of that taunt which had
been thrown out, and which stigmatised his proposal as
a legislative bubble ?—(Loud cheers.) A bubble that
would bring in 700,0001. a year was not to be despised.
—(Loud cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman said that he
would get the money from the home markets, he would
get that sum of money both now and hereafter from
that source ; and therefore he was told he ought not to
take any measure, and that was considered a triumphant
reply.—(Cheers.) Now his object had always been to
protect the West Indian as long as he could afford sugar
at a fair and reasonable price. But while on the one
hand he afforded a protection to the West Indian so long
as he could supply sugar at a reasonable price, on the
other hand he was bound to see the public protected.
So long as the West Indian was able to send
his sugar to the public at a fair and reasonable
price, so long would he be protected. But the
moment he got beyond that price, foreign sugar
would interfere with him, Thus, while he secured to
the West Indian a fair protection, he took a security on
the part of the poorer classes and the revenue, that they
should not be put to the inconvenience to which they
were put. during the last year, in consequence of the
high price.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had
entered into a calculation, which he had produced, and
on which he had asked him (the Chancellor of
the ExcheqUer) to rely. In the first place, the Right
Hon. Gentleman told him that the quantity of sugar which
they might expect from the British colonies and the
East Indies, would be amply sufficient for the consump-
tion of the country. His answer was, that he should be
glad to leave it to the consumers of the country to judge
what they thought was a proper quantity for the con-
sumption.—(Cheers.) The whole object and principle
of his measure was to fix a fair price, so that consump-
tion could go on to the utmost possible extent. But he
thought if he looked back into the papers in the Colo-
nial-office, he should find repeated and very recent re-
monstrances from those very colonies which now told
them that they were able to give a full and ample supply
of sugar, complaining that their productions was falling
off, and that they were ruined.—(Hear, and cheers.) To
ha sure those remonstrances were made before they
were aware of the present measure.—(Laughter.)
But they could not blow hot and cold at the same time ;
they could not complain of the produce falling off, and
at the same time state that they were now producing
more sugar than ever had been grown before.—(Hear.)
But that was not all ; they were told that they could ob-
tain an unlimited supply from the East Indies. Now he
had had the honour to receive a deputation from the
East India merchants, and had asked them what
they considered a fair remunerating price.
Now he had thought that 365. ought
to be the price but they had stated that they must
look for 40s. So that the rich valley of the Ganges
according to the statement would not supply sugar under
40s. Now, if he was of opinion that 365. was tt fair
price, for the consumer to pay in this country, and a
prime which would afAvd the greatest revenue, would
he be justified in trusting to the pledges and opinions
of Hon. Gentlemen on the other side of the House,
that the supply would be amply sufficient without
taking any security for the truth of their pledges?
—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) But if they were
able to provide an adequate supply, and a surplus beyond
it, as they stated, then no foreign sugar would be ad-
mitted, and no harm would b done.—(Hear, hear.)
When the question had been argued the other day, gen- '
tlernen opposiW had referred triumphantly to the Price
Current, and had told him that even since the time that
he had introduced his measure prices had fallen. Bat
would they appeal to the Price Current now ? Had prices
continued to fall ?—(Cheers. Did they suppose that
gentlemen engaged in this trade did not look to what
was going on in that House ; and what was the effect ? '
Prices were rising, and would rise. Gentlemen said that
last year the prices were high, but now they had fallen
from 495. to 365., and lie was taunted that now prices
were lower—he was about to interfere, and was asked why
he had not interfered last year when they were high.
If he had come down to the House and said, " The prices
are very high, and I will propose a measure now," did
the House suppose that Hon. Gentleman opposite would
be satisfied ?—(Hear, hear.) Would they not have
asked him, -and most properly, not to take so ruinous a
step at that moment, but give them a little time to make
some alterations when the prices were more equal, and
then to propose this measure ?—(Hear.) He had chosen
a time, he admitted, when the produce of the East Indies
and other colonies was large, and when lie mighs
be taunted that what he proposed would make but a
small difference. But it was a time when he could interfere
the best, and the least inconveniently to the West Indian
interest—it would not materially affect them this year,
but then he gave them warning of what was going to
take place. He did not taken them by surprise.—
(Hear, hear.) If it were true that the law was
waste paper for this year, the result was that it
was clone with that courteous discretion and that careful
attention to their interests, which left them no right to
complain.—(Cheers.) While he was dealing with the
question of protection, he would call the attention of the
House to a point which had been referred to by the Hon,
Member for Newark and by his Right Hon. Friend the
President of the Board of Trade, and he trusted that
his answer would be perfectly satisfactory. In 1829
Mr. Charles Grant brought n proposal before the House
with regard to the sugar duties, On that occasion he
stated, that Mr. Huskisson, when President of the
Board of Trade, had pledged himself to recon-
sfder the sugar duties ; that Mr. Huskisson
fia,ving Ipft the office ; and being succeeded
by himself, lie considered hinisPlf 14C11111€1 by that pledge I
that in consequence he had given his best attention to
those duties, consulted parties on the subject, and even-
tually laid before the Cabinet, a reduction in the scale of
duty. In the debate which followed, this fact was not
4ftetpci by Mr. Huskisson or by any Hon. Gentleman. Now
what was the scale ? Oti East India sugar 255,, on fo-
reign—what ? per aunt, upon 20. He
know the argument that was used by the Hen. Member
for Newark was, that that was a great experiment ;
that at the time the question of slavery was in
agitation, what difference was made between free-
lahOUr sugar and foreign sugar of Brazil or Cuba?
They g4yq ii protection of 3s. only to the free-
labour sugar of the Mast Indio*, in comparison with the
sugar of Brazil and Cuba,--- (Cheers') Now, he would
not quakes,' as to whether the duty should be 2s, more
or less ; but lie must make one obseration in this respect.
He was prepared to give a protection of 50 per cent. to
free-labour sugar. There had been hitherto a protec-
tion, of 3s. only, and yet Hon. Gentlemen said that it
was a (1400401, of principles that Plev WOIII4 pg endure
that slavery and the slave,m4de should ba enconraged.
—(Cheers from the Tory benches,) Let Hon. Gentlmen
be assured that the people of this country took a deep
interest in this matter, and they would find these pre-
tensions to humanity would not serve them. They
would ask the question, how it came that they who were
prepared to admit 8ra4,4 044 Cuba sugar, wits} a prqtpo-
tion of 3s. only ea free labour sugar When they were in
power, the people would ask the question how it hap-
pened that they had forgotten that fact, and
now found it utterly inconsistent with their principles,
But there was another answer. The Hon. Member for
Newark had said it was nothing : that there was a large
surplus, and that, therefore, It was nothing. If such
were the case, if the surplus was ample i%ir the con-
sumption, why was it that the objection was not made?
Mr. F. Buxton had said, with respect to competition,
that lie was afraid that by it they would increase slavery,
considerable effect in
and s
most
important, therefore 1e objected4:i
ci they t o it. Mr. Huskisson and Lord
Olenelz, .on the contrary, thought that competition was
At that time the protection Was j that was Con,
raising
sidered ample. And why, therefore, he would
moliettedtF4t4sh:,t,it alveougldrgh:ii's'e.
ask, should not the protection that he proposed
be considered ample too ? He would now turn
to his Right Hon. Friend the Member for the Tower
Hamlets, Ile admitted that anything that fell from hirii
fell from a man who was j'erguaded that he was right.
But he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) must-confess
that he,entirely differed with his Right Hon. Friend in
the view and prospect he had of introdacir,g fm.eign
sugar. His (the Chancellor of the Exchequer's) opinion
was that competition between free labour sugar of East
and IhSfeensetfllt to nchetsrde.
,aand
110 laid
whichacio
producedwoacisotiht
tiiathbiys
iagvhe slaves
in Cuba and the ilrasils, would be productive of consider-
ableHonourable Friend sincerely and honestly believed
what he had stated. But his (the Chancellor of the
Exchequer's) opinion was, that if they wished
to strengthen the trade in free labour sugar they must
br:ciustar troi theim ibryu.eprpostieicitiyoll:s—of(Hfreeare trade. If they wished
to have a healthy, a steady. ,"a Fair, and sei.ong producp gf
free labour sugar, the only way to procure that was to
allow it to be competed with by other sugar, aenhwdimansotsthuarttoe,
that his
looking back ati-the4t4,7 aria epopltry,
nothing was more true than the principle laid down Iv
Mr. Huskisson, that if they wished to improve trade they
must admit competition, and the worst thing they could
elo,'rinieiii%drwiaoluld petiteagl er;ere. )1V
inflict upon Cononesse Iris to caulk it up or to bolster it
up by protection. The Hon. Cientl-•ernsu the Mem-
ber for the Tower Hamlets had asked how they could
receneile it with their principles to prohibit slave grown
sugar and yet 10 On* slave grown coffee and other arti-
cles ? His Noble ifriendOppOite had stated the cab- an-
swer that could be given to the question. He said that
he was against slavery, but that he should get all he could.
He asked his Right Hon. Friend, although that might
,s4t;:sfe his mind and many of the, friends with whom he
acted, silica'
c4'4lye to (Teed with foreign Powers, how