The Sun.
London, England, 1812-04-25 00:00:00

BERLIN AND MILAN DECREES.

The Earl of LtvEttPooL, by command of the
Prince Regent, laid a dopy of the Declaration issued,
by his Royal Highness, inconsequence of the official
report of the French Mnister to the efinseryati%d
Senate, shewing the intention of the French Go-
vernment to persevere in these measures,
_before
their Lordships. This proceeding (the document
itself is already before our Readers) gave rise to some
discussion. •

I.ofd HOLLANb-expressed his wish to know, whe
Vier it was meant by the docuthent, that a yet; i
repeal of all the parts of the -Beth() and Milan De-
cites, or- only of those parts which thost aOtted
this countfy, or were contrary to the law of nations,
should be. required, ere an abrogation of the Orders
in Council should take place ? • ,
Lord LIVERPOOL expressed his wish to answer the
Noble Baron, as far as the case would admit-
It-waia matter of much dispute how far either of
those Decrees were or were not repealed. Much of
what the Noble Baron seemed to contemplate
would depend upon the particular case, as it should
appear in the proof to the Courts below, as appli-
cable to the Orders in Council. As to the particu-
lar question referring to a partial repeal of the De-
crees-in question, it would be impossible for him
precisely to say, without knowing, what the parts re-
pealed were. A general abrogation could only be
in consequence of a total repeal of those Decrees;
b-it with respr& to any partial repeal, it would f,rai
a question for the determination of Gwernment.,
according to all the circumstances of the case.
Lord HOLLAND, in explanation, observed, that
according to his understanding of -►he Noble Se-
cretary, a general repeal of the Berlin and Milan
Decrees, was contemplated by the document in
qaestion.

The Earl of LAUDERDALE was of opinion, that
from the language and enactments of the Milan De"
cree, that of Berlin was ipso faao, repealed ; and,
he-said, it would become Ministers to consider the
distressed state of the British manufaatirers, with
reference to that subject.
Earl BATHURST contended, Ibis was by no man
the case, as in all the communications between. tho
negOciating parties, the Berlin D.Trees were equally
referred to.

CAPTURE OF BADAIO4.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL gave notice, that ori
Monday he should rnove the Thanks o(the Houses
to the Earl of Wellington, and toithe Army engaged
in the Siege and. Capture of ‘l3.iciajoz, and Mov-
ed, that the Lords be summoned for that dar.--.
Ordered.

A short conversation ensued between'the Mar-o.
quis of Lansdowne, the Duke of Nortelk, and the_
Earls of Liverpool and Darnley, in consequence of
the first mentioned Peer observing, that an im-
-portant Bill had recently passed through that House
(the Penitentiary Hou,e4), without due attention be-
ing paid to it. This led to no proceeding, as no
motion NM proposed.
Some further documents illustrative of the subjeft
of die Orders in Council, as the copies of forriA of
certain licenses, &c. were, on the motion of the
Earl of Lauderdale, ordered to be laid before the
House.

The Marquis of DOUGLAS presented Petitions
from the City and Port of G136g0.v, in Scotland, cni
from the Chamber of Commerce, established in t hat
City, and another from certain ship-owners, mann?
facturers, &c, praying for a participation in thr,i'rade
to India; which being read, vas ordered' to lie on.
the table.

PEASANTRY OF IRELAND.
The Order of the Day upon which their Lord..
ships were summoned, being,read,
Earl STANHOPE rose to move the second reading
of his Bill—For bettering the Condition of the Pea-

gantry and Tenantry of Great Britain and trelancl.—u
he prefaced the motion with a variety of ebserva-
Lions, explanatory of •the grounds, and enforcing
the arguments he had jdvancedf in the first instance,.
as the causes of his introducing; and the reasons for
inducis,g their Lordships to agree to the Bill, as an
effectual remedy for a very gr, at and shameful griev-
ance.—[These, os well as the Bill itself, are already.
before our readers.] Doting a part of his speech,
the Noble Earl produced much risibility, by his
remarks on a letter which lie read, as part of his
Former speech, being the sentiments of a great
Lawyer on the subject, in a letter to another per-,
seo on the subject, and which contained °pi-
llions in layouur of what he was about to advance.
'he name of the Great Lawyer who wrote it he
then declined sating, but he now declared it to be
the letter of a Noble and Learned Lord opposite
-(Redesdale). Mier expatiating on the injustice of
'suffering the law to remain as at present, through
'Which the occupying tenantry- were so much op-
pressed in Ireland, and telerring to a Arad on the
r'llbjea by the Hon. Colonel Dillon, some commu-
nications from the Noble Viscount, his father,. and
the excellent pamphlet, of Counsellor O'lledy on
the -subject, in iluslraiion of his positions, the
Aoble Earl moved, that the Bill be now read a se-
-eond time.
Lord 11.EnsnALE, after censuring the conduct of
tle person who communicated, for such a purpose,
a letter confi.!eotially written-, and contending that
nothing lie lthd advanced in the former discirssicrns
;lashed with thc, principles arid positions in that
'tt€7, said, he should not oppose the motion, hut,
'Or his part, suffer the Bill to go into a Committee,
legally
he would be happy to contribute, if at all •
'gaily practicable, 'any way to alleviate the "evils
e'liiplarned of ; but the 8,1 l as, it now stood, in-
stead of alleviating, would, he thought-, go to aggi-a-
'ate those evils.
Tate LORD CHANCELLOR shortly expressed his
learned
the opinions held by his Noble and
-,earned Friend, and observed, their. Lordships•lolould consider well before they agreed to a tura-
illre Which went to overthrow a great part of the
law of landlord and tenant, in England, Scotland,
g"d Ireland. • Time should be allowed for the pur-
-3e of further inquiry and consideration of the
Inbjeci.
„Earl STA NHOPE -portly explained.
tv.4:he Earl of LIVERPOOL seemed much impressed
pit" what had fallen from the Noble and Learned
°Ws on the sublect, and under such impressions
ul'osed to defer the Committee on the Bill until
that day two months.
b
arl STANHOPE objeCted to so long an interval,
th 'V tar too late a period for a due consideration of
b: Bill this Session. He thought a month would
amPly sufficient. To this the Noble Secretarof y
,_.State assented, and the Bill was accordingly cott-
ined to
, r this day month.
v'l re Bills upon the table were then respec-
itelY foyrwarded—and their Lordships adjourned till
4ontia.

ROUSE OF COMMONS.

FR:DAY, APRIL 24..
1, The Irish Grain Distillation "'inhibition Bill, and
Tobacee„-Tipt-t.lay wart brought up, and.
lier,s.lad 3 first and ordered to be lead a second
..e on Monda next.
A Person trona the Office of Chief Secretary of
State for Ireland, presented an account of the
Illutntter of Bank of Irtsland'Notes in circulation.
Committees on the Scotch L 4 cat MHO t Bill,
and on the consideration of the Lords' Messagt., re-
!petting the Fourth R-port of ihr East India corn.
vanY, were postponed to Wednesday next.
Lord A. HAMILTON presented a petition from
Ile Merchants of. Glasgow, against the Orders in
Council.
Mr. HOUSTON presented a counter petition from
the Traders and M .I:ufatiurerslof the sante place.
After a few words from Mr. Brougham, the
of the Excheq er, Lord A. Hamilton, Nr.
00uston, and General Tarleton, the petitions were
dered to Be on the table.
. d
ry E
Of the ECE XcHE
CtURR gave no-
. that he r.voitld mov,.! for a Vote of Thanks to
d Wellington, and the Gallant Artny who had
76en Badajoz by stor tt, on Monday next. (The
lice Was followed by loud Cheers.)

CATHOLIC' QUESTION.
(RESUMED DEBATE).
dll/e Motion for a Committee to i-quire into the
at° of the Irish Catholics having been put from
e Chair
Bir WILLIAM SCOTT commenced with vie-,dicat..
hug the conduct of ti.e illustrious University whiLh
4e had the hon,,ur to represent (Oxford) from some
a 5 had
which were thrown out on the former
t ight. In contradidion to those assertions he •NOuld
%t
ale, that there tA; as no community of men more
Iristingrdshed for their attachment to the Constitn-
-00, more unshaken in their fidelity to the throne,
and More firm in their resistance to the demands of
sgal tyranny. They had ever been the forward il-
\;l;!ers of civil liberty and personal independence.—
tth respe& to their Petition on the subjed before
le' House, it was voted by a majority of four to
aurle, and the whole number of persons who voted
bainst it was but 24. It was as fair a representa-
tion of the sentiments of that whole body as he be-
lieved it was of the educated part of the country in
tLeneral. Upon the question immediately before
1741, he should not trouble them at any length ;
vd i could not help considering it as one which was
tii'culated only to excite those passions which must
e siturb the domestic tranquility, and to hazard the
I,4lumity of setting fire to the country. There was
tic' probability of their corning this year to a different
4elermination from that to which they had come in
uY of the preceding years, yet they were told every
yeart that it must be done. The constant answer of
4" Legislature-to such threats, was, that it should
tti°l be done, so that the eifeet of those repeated ap-
cations was to keep up a continual warfare be
he the Legislature and the Petitioners. It had
satsaid that.thete was no clamour; but though
sere Was no clamour, them might be strong Sen-
tiOn, and lie was confident there was. But had
41e Petitioners brought the. question any nearer to
Bnucradjustment than in former instances Had they.
t'teted those securities which might have a tendency
ill) allay the apprehensions entr tallied by some ?' Or
\tIN
44 they not, on the contrary, tetus. ed all securities,

• ,
• even those which they Were willing to have.con-
ceded before ? So•far from granting any seciality.
- they accompanied their claims with an' explicit de-
claration, that their Church should have a mark--d
public encouragement ; must it not be apprehend: d,,
that this request must mean, in other words, a
marked public discouragement to the established re-
ligion of the country? The time had not long Nisi-
ed,- when it was thought a tundamentrd principle
the Constitution, that the civil fabric should be
combined with a religious establishment; but now,
they were told, it was an absolute theory. He
would ask in reply to those enlightened speculator.,,
who would separate them, could Roman Catholic
Chancellors, Roman Catholic Privy Councillors, and
a Roman Catholic Parliament, be considered faithful
guardians of a Protestant Monarchy ? He was sure
that nothing could be more at heart with Catholics,
if they were sincere, than the extinction of the Pro-
testant Religion. When he looked at the genius of
Catholicism, at the
.exclusive spirit With which it
was embued, and the general principle it adodted,
namely, !hat there was no salvation out of the pale
of the Church ; he must say that they were not
safe hands to be entrusted with the cate of the esta-
blished religion. As to what hal been said respea-
ing the Clutch of Scotland, it bore no application
whatever to the Catholic Church, for there was
a spirit in all branches of proletsantism wt ich allied
them nearer to each other, and rendeted each less
dangerous to the rest. They had to decide upon
one of two propositions, whether all religions wire
the same, and entitled to the same encouragement ;
or whether, if one was preferable to another, it
might not be unsafe to trust it into the han s of
those who were devoted to iis destruelion ? When
it came to be:a question hOw far Llie securities we
had should be given up, it was a grave consideration
for every man's own mind, • It was easy to com-
pose a declamation, though not of so brilliant a de-
scription as they had heard_upon this subjeA ; there
were general principles, plausible in theory, but in-
jurious in the practical application, on which it was
not difficult to make a display ; • but he would refer
every man to his own historical refleolion, -to de er-
mine how far power conferred upon such a sect
:would be likely to promote those interests to which
he was attached by education and conviction. They
were told, that to accede to the motion, would have
a tendency to reconcile the minds Uf the people.,--
In his opinion, the tendency would be directly
the reverse ; the Committee would be a fund
for party questions and inflammatory matter.—
In all civilized countries, some religion must be
secured in the pre..onderance ; and whateVer they
might say of the benevolence of mayk:tid, and
the mild spirit of religion, as long as human
nature continued to be what it. was, religious p,ir_
ties would become political parties. Parties of
description were the more yirtatela and dangerous,
as the% were not confined to the higuer classes
alone, but extended their influence t(1.) every indivi-
dual in the State. Another a'gtiment insisted On
was, that Ireland would be lost-; that flue whole
country would be lost, if concessions were act! made.
But how wirrhe to underst,,nd this threat ? Did the
allegiance of the Hon. 'Gentlemen sit so loose upon
then as to permit them to de, line the defence of
the Statean suckan eve,a i II so, he must be per-
mitted to sav,alial so fir from being an argument in
favotir of the privii. tees deinaiiied, it went d
in Oa other way. It their loyalty, hung so loose
about them, toey should be the lint i''er,s(Ln, he
ieti-
arusti•d with p,ditical power. clu
thoug,t, should be laid asit_-e one way or ;
andwhile he gave credit to the Hon. Gentlemen on
the other side, for their att-ntion ti.; the oublic quiet
while in office, by omitting 16 bring forward this
question, he trusted their sentiments would not,
change with change of situ ition, aid that ou reflec-
tion they would see the inipropriety of pressiog if,
forward at present.

Mr. ELLIOTT disclaimed all notion of discussing
the merits of the question upon the grou:l.l of ab•
stra:t right. This question, hke all others, de-
pended on advantages and disadvantages, ou benefits
and dangers. Tice arguments ,031iliSt the clroms of
the Cal hides might be redive.i to three, classes ;
first, the danger to be a;•piehended twin grant-
ing them;
.secondly, the contoitetional objec-
tions ; and, thirdly, the doubt which was en-
tertained of their efficacy, in case they should
be granted. The 'chaOges witicit had of late years
taken place in the world had rendered the danger
considerable. There were di lon,er any apprehen-
sions trout the Pretender,.&c. and . as to the doubt
which some persons entertained of their oat hs,.the
proposal of an oath as a prolec.4u) against their
al-
leged disiegard
.ot them was rather a clumsy expe-
di,nt. He wished to see the country as plwerful
as possible, and- for that purpose he ,vould recom-
mend, theme Church should throw pen' wider the
doors of toleration. With respect to the allusion to
the last Administration, all they did was to keep otli
the question, in consequence of the prejudices known
to exist.against it, and he was one of those who
gave the Roman Catholics such adviCe, but the pre-
sent was a more auspicious period—the P:ince Re-
gent, to whose hands the Government was now en-
trus'ed„ possessed., the confidence, and excited tire
expectations: of the country, ; was a golden oppor.
tunity not to be lost. To ref Use the motion would
be neither more nor less titan to refuse to consider
the question.
. .
Mr. Youxe wished the measure could be granted
with safely, for he possesesed every favourable dis-.
position--towards his brethren he Catholics of Ire-
land. When be and those who thought with him
were represented as labouring under a cloud of pre-
judice, he thought the charge might be easily
re-
torted, as 4t depended upon the arguments to be-
ad-
duced. The subject was most important, but it
app,ffated to him to lie within a _ very narrow
compass. Those who differed , from the motion
might be permitted, without being called Pro-
testant bigots (a term very liberally bes!owed), to
pause before they agreed to an alteration of the
fundamental laws of the realm. He was urprised
to hear it stated that the riuestion had nothing to do
with fundameatal law, and proceeded to read sotne
extracts from`-the Bill of Rigins,,,trom which he
(erred it to be a fundamental iii*V of this country,
that we should be ruled by a Protestant King, and •
that Papists should not. govern the country. The
onus probandi lay, he thought, with those who sup-
ported the measure, to shew that no danger
result horn it. He, for one, Was tar from being
satisfied on that point. He next quoted the

Als of Union with Ireland ana Scotland, which
.that the Protestant religion shoti.ld be
that 'of the Siate. It was not a question of right
or fulerm,On, but of political power. He was one
of those who looked forward to. the ultimate
union, as lie might call it, of Protestant and Ca-
tholic ; but the more he thought upon the sub-
ject, the ,more he was induced to bel.eve that
first opinion were were hastily taken. H, then quoted
the letters which passed netwe,.n the. Vicars /Ws-
' toile and the Catholic Committee, respecting (he
oath prOnosed in Lord.Redasd3le's Bill, to shew the
ascendancy of the Catholic Clergy over their flock,
the Clergy having prdscribed and forbidden_ the
oath, notwithstanding (he clear arguments of the
Committee in its favour. With respect to the
Veto, was there a man' who doubted that it met
the approbJtion of the Laity, bta that the Clergy
refused their sanaion ? The. Bishops and the
inferior Clergy, he believed, had the most ab-
s'olute power over their flock: The question
of the influence of the Papal authority was kept in
the back ground; whiah afforded matter of proof
'hat the question was of much consequence to them
—he thelefore complained that, not Withstariding the
Pope was of so much importance, no,-I.e of the Ca-
tholic Bishops had come forward to explain to whom,
in case of a stccessor being chosen (the. Pope
al present prisoner), they would-give their allegia;:ce.
It had been urged, as no argumeut in favour of ;
Committee, that if Ireland was intimidated, then a
separation might perhaps follow. If the House
were to give way in any one point more than an-
other, the fear of the d.inger of intimidation was the
one which be should be most desirous not to -con-
-cede. Once give way, and the next thing they
would demand would be an establishment- of their

Did (he House think that the present Mea-
sure, if acceded to, would satisfy them ? He be-
lieved not ; for if the Priests were not satisfied, no-
thing effective would follow. By giving way,
greater sacrifices would be 'expeLled, so that in
time, a Catholic Parry might gain seats in Par-
liament.

own

Mr. BROUGHAM- contended that the opinions of
the Right Hon. and Learned Gentle'man, who open-
ed the debate, were not justified in fairness. ,He
had sta'ed, that the effect of the granting the prayer'
of the Petitioners wsoutd be to overturn evety prin-
c'i'ple of the Established ChOrch of the country.
That was not their object. In Opposition to the
opinions of an obscure writer, which opinion's the
last speaker had read, he would quote the ReCeord of
the Statu,es of the Realm, -as the best answer that
could be given'. By those Statutes, they were en-
joined to take oaths, which prevented them froM
•eing hostile to the Established Church, and to those
oaths they subscribed. They swore I" to abjure
any i'tentiOn of subverting the Established Church,.
by att, 'opting to place the Roman Catholic in
its •stead ; nor could they exercise any privilege
to • disturb the - Protestant religion, but would
Maintain' the Ftrotest ant Government to ,the ut-
most of their power." If the Church was in
danger, that danger was apparent at every
:election ; for when the Parliament conceded
to the Catholics their eleCtive •fratichse, they gave
them the potyer c,f electing Catholic representatives.
He saw no tears of that kind to be entertained. He
did tn,,t feel that all the original ties would be suddenly
disio,Wed. The Catholic felt he was aggrieved, and
xerctsing that feeling ;• he would not dissemble,
but speak out. The people of Ireland were in a
state Of-degradation—they asked to be admitted to a
participation of the rights of subjects, in common
with the rest of the Empire ; they were told at the
Union, by the Noble Lord, then the organ of the.
Irish - Government, thrt their complaints should be
attended to;. they were promised a boon, which
boon in faCt was their jnst and lawful right, but
,they had been deceived: The new era had arrived,
previous to which promises ~had been made, and
pledges held" out (rain a quarter to which no tea-
so; vile suspicion could attach; but in the hope
which the Early Friends (he meant the People of
Ireland) entertained that the accomplishment of their
wishes would succeed, they were again deceived—
promises were broken and forgotten, and they came
to the House-for redress. •

Mr. L FOSTER took a review of the question
from historical tads, as it .respeeied Catholicism in
Ireland, froni the reign of Philip the Sc.cond down
to the prpvisions of the Parliament of Ireland, which
pl'ocided for the better'.education- or. the Catholics.
He 1/44. as persuaded that many of those. who .warmlk
asset led the Catholic cause, did so because they felt
it to be necessary to the maintenance of their political
powsT that they should adopt the wishes of those
whom they desired wbe their followers. His rea-
son fdr voting agai,:st the concessions was, that the
Catholics were determined to have all from us, and
to give us no' tring.

Sir. GRATTAN explained.
Mr. SuAw was disposed to think that it was doe
to the feelings of su large a, hotly of his Majosty's
subj,•ets to go into a Committee of inquiry into the
grievences of which they complaned. He
however, as much inclined as ever, to look with a
je.dons eye, to the security of the Protestant Esta-
Wish:neut.

Colonel DILLON declared, that in Ireland, many
who had hitherto been inimical to the Catholic
claims, were now most favourably disposed towards
the

Sir S. RONULLY observed, that whenever the Ca-1
tholic question had heretofore been brought
before Parliament, he had voter: for it in si-
lence, conscious that there were many much
better qualified than he to express their senti-
tnetits on the subjea. Many ot the aneient Ca.
iliac tenets he abhorred.. The former persecu-
tions of that church were dreadful ; but his ab-
horl'ence' of persecution in others should never be-
tray him into the comniission of persecution him,ell.
The Catholic religion of this day was very dill sei,t
from the religion which was held up by the opposers
at- the motion as a just cause of apprehension. h
had been• asserted that the Catholicism of Ireland
was different Itom,that of any other country. Why
refuse an inquiry into that difference ? It was asserted
also, that the priesthood in Ireland had a more than
ordinary influence - over the people. This was at-
tributable to the disabilities und,:r which they la-
bonred, and Would he removed by their aboln intr.
When the House saw that by one ad they could
heal the division's which existed in.lrtland, and pre-
sent the fatal consequences which might Otherwise
en'sue., he could not persuade himself that they
would refuse at least to go into an inquiry.

Mr. Put.Lgit observer}', that t!te non. and Learned
Knigl,t had certaioly got a retainer froni. the I) s-
senters. He had inalm one of the most extraordi-
nary speeches he had ever heard. . He was astonish-
ed .how the Hon. and Lo'arned coul ! have
swallowed the Tit Atl, and all the other oaths which
Members of th it- H use were ohli,zPd to take.
Sir S. Romtt.r.v• replied, that if the Hon; Gen-
tleman had been 'wormed that he was retained by
the dissenting- ir west, that Hon G-Aulematt had
been ittform.'d of a-gross fross fllsHiond. As to
swallowing the oaths imposed on Members of liar-
Lament, he would just observe, that V had been
educated in Church of England p'inciples, that be
always attended public worship in aChurch of Eng•s
land, and that he had never, even from motives of
curiosity, been in a dissenting meeting. •
Mr. FULLER expresse I himself mkch obliged to
th - Hon. and Learned Baronet for his, explanation,
and complimented him on the extraoiditn:ry- feeling
which k. had shewn on this o4•casion.

Mr. W. SMITH was not at all ashamed to s•y
that a Dissenting Meeting was the constant place in
which he worshi.iped. -He stood in the House,
not having violated any oath which it was becoming
in him as Dissenter, or which ,t was necessary tor
him as a' Member of Parliament, to take. Ad-
verting to the petition which he had yesterday
presented -from Dissenters of various denomina..•
tions; he observed, that it was presented at this par.
titular time, to spew that the peti loners were not
aatiated by any selfish feeling. He proceeded to
consider, tlfe question immediately before the House,
and maintained the necessity of acquiescing in the
motion. He contended also, tiro_ stia jr:sti e and
sound policy required that rhe.srate of the Catholics
of Itelar:d should be well considered, and that even
More should be done than was now talked of. A
discontented People, under a discont,nied Clergy,
Would be much better tools in the hands of Buotta,!
p,ote, than a contented People under a Clet-gypaid
oy the Government, and taken care of.by them,
Mr. Pot.r-pa explained.
Mr. HERBERT (of Kerry) was.one of those who
conceived there was no great difference between the
two religions, and thought no danger was to be' ap-
prehended from granting 'what the Catholics requir-
ed, and, therefore, gage his most decided support to
the motion. •

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER Sir;
1. should certainly have permitted the questinui
to go to a division without offeri-g any sentie
ments of mine, upon it, (•for I feel how 'lm-
possible it is to say any thing which has not been
already advanced) had I not been anxious to state a
few cii-curnstances in reference to the arguments
which have been adduced on the present and Ott the
preceding evening. I wish it to be distinelly under•
stood, that -any opinion which S may express as to
the present time not being the fit moment to con-
cede the claims of the Roman Catholics, implies in
it no-declaration that that of inion is' unalt, rable ;
on the
.contrary, I do not rejea the possibility, I
even-anticipate the probability of circumstances oc-
curring, which may materially alter the sentiments
I now Profess. I wish it also to be undeistOod,
that in avowing my opinions on this que;tion,
that avowal will hAve no influence.upoo any per-
son who may be connected with the Goveriotie,,t 5
though I have eiery reason, to believe it is the ge-
neral feeling of all my colleaeues, that this i5...1 ot
the moment for granting to the Catholics of fieland
their claims. I mention this, Sir, because ,-,;e hate
heard a great deal-to-night of pledges that have been
falsified, of faith that has been broken, and of hopes
that have been excited only to be mocked with dis-
appointment ; but I feel considerable doubt whether
I ought not, when those c1r.,,..s were made, to
have put it to the House,- whether they. were what
could with propriety , admitted into the de-
bate. I cannot conceive, ;tacked, that because
of the conduct pursued by the . Irish Parli
meat, in 1789, during the agration ot the Re-
gency- question, or of the mann - in which tit it
conduct was received, any 'fling- like a pl-dge as to
the concession ot the Catholic claims could hein-
ferred. To me, nothing can be more false.in 136.1
or more unconstitutional in principle than this doc-
trine. Whatever was done in 1789 by the Irish
Parliament, respeaing that oje, t, nothing certain-
ly was.done for the Roman Catholics, for in 1792
heir Petition was rejected . by the Parliament
of Leland, there being, ,only twenty - lit e in
favour of it. Supposing, however, that after
that period any person . bad collected 'the opi-
nions of an illustrious personage as.to the justice or
expedieocymf• granting those claims, is it to be in-
fered from hence that he had involved' himself in
any Qledge, from whi h he could not conscientious-
ly recede ? Will it be said, that before he comes to
the throne such a pledge might be elicited (roux
hito ? Do Gentlemen mean to assert this
mean to maintain such a constitutional doctrine as
This ? (Hear, hear from the Opposition.) .
should like lb knoW.from the Constitutional Law-
rs who cheer ihesinesti-n, whether they will in-
form me who was the .confidential adviser of such
pledge ?—(Hear, hear !)—ln proceeding, Sir, to
consider the subject immediately before the House,
I really do not know bow I- cat) expect to be
attended to ; for it has been so often discwsed, that
every topic of argument seems.to be exhatis ed. 11
is of importance, however, .that the House shoukt
know precisely the question which. it has to consi-
der ; but what that question is, will nut, I apple-
bend, be easily understoryl ; for I have not heard,
either from the Right Hon. Gentlethati who nsa,ie
the present motion, or from any of. those who hive
supported it, what the duty of the Cormnittee 4.hich
is called tor, will be. Inde,d, I hardly know, fi-oin
the abscure.terms in which dr- Right Hon. Gentle-
man enveloped his motion, whether the Committee
to be one of the N hole House, or a Select Com-
mittee ; though the impression upon my-
when I h,••ard the motto(' was, that Select Com-
mittee Was moved for. I could wish, if I migir ha
permitted to ask the question, whether I am rigin in
this conje6iurel?

Mr.ORATTAN spoke across the table, and
mated ha, he believed he should subsequently move
tor a Svlea Committee.

Mr
PERCEVAL— Rigl,t Hon. Gentleman_haS
not ?et tor rn,:d is own opinion as to his comse
will ht., and House must surely feel some stir-
prtse, in learning hat the ii.iture of the measure is
yet undec even in the mind of the proposer. If
it is to be
_a
_Select committee, I would ask, is it
possibie that we can delegate to a Select Committee,
the examination of all the Jaws relating to the