The Sun.
London, England, 1824-06-15 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Several Accounts and other Papers were presented from, dif-
ferent Public Offices and ordered to lie on the table.
•SOUTHIVARK BRIDGE.
The Southwark Bridge Bill was re-committed, and went
through the Conimittee.—Report to-morrow.
Lord A. HILL presented a petition from the Catholics of
Downshire, praying for a repeal of the disabling statutes af-
fecting Catholics.—Ordered^to lie on table.

SIERRA LEONE.
Mr. PELHAM moved for several Returns relative to the
Grants passed for the benefit of the Colony of Sierra Leone.—
Ordered.
CORPORATION OF DROGHEDA.
Mr. HUME presented a petition from the Town of Drog-
heda, complaining of several alleged abuses in the manage-
ment of the Corporation Funds of that town. It stated that
the Funds, which were intended for the benefit of the Com-
munity, were monopolized by the Corporation, consisting of.
only a few persons; and that .the Catholics, in particular, were
excluded from obtaining their sltare ; although they consisted
in number of seven-eighths of the population.
The petition was ordered to lie on the table, and be printed.

FORGERY

Mr. HUME presentedap4don from an individual, assur-
ing the House that he had the means of preventing Forgery ;
and requesting that his pretensions might be enpured into.—
Ordered to lie on the table, and he printed.
CO3II3TNAT lON LAWS.
Mr. HUME presented a petition from several individuals of
Scotland, praying for the Repeal of the Combination -Laws.
The House had- already repealed them as far as it could.—
Ordered to lie on the table. -
EXCISE PROSECUTIONS.
Mr. HUME moved for several Papers relative to an. Excise
prosecution against one Samuel Fletcher.—Ordered.
Lord OX3IANTOWN presented- a petition from several
Freemasons of the Queen's County, praying that they might
be allowed the same privileges as were allowed to English Free-
masons.—Ordered to lie on the table.

ASSESSED TAXES.
Mr. AUBE R LIT gave notice, that early in the next Session
he should move for the
.Repeal of the Assessed Taxes..
PORTUGUESE PRIZE MONEY.
Mr. HUME-begged to call .the attention of the House to the
distribution of the Portuguese Prize Money ; much delay had
taken place, he believed, several years, and many of the persons
interested in its distribution were now dead.

Mr. HERItIES said an arrangement had been contemplated
between Lord Beresford and the Portuguese Minister; but the
money had been laid out in Exchequer Bills, and was currying
interest.

After a few words from Col. DAVIES and Mr. IlEnniEs,
the conversation dropped.
HISTORICAL PAINTING.

Mr. LAMDTON presented a petition, from Mr. Haydon,
the historical painter, complaining of the want of encourage-
ment given to historical painting. The petitioner had present-
ed a petition on the same subject last Session, which was pre-
sented by the Hon. and Learned Member for Winchelsea. The
petition at sonic length went into a laudatory and historical
account of this description of painting, and repeated its prayer
that historical artists might be encouraged by Parliament. He
(Mr. L.) concurred in the' sentiments of the petition, though
he had no wish to gratify what was called " The sight-seeing"
public.

The petition was ordered to lie on the table, and be printed.

COURT OF SESSION. •
Air. DENMAN presented a petition from John Flay, a
Scotch merchant, complaining of certain alleged abuses by the
Court of Session in Scotland, which had imprisoned the pe-
titioner on a charge of contempt without the intervention of
a Jury. _

The LORD ADVOCATE said the petition ought not to be
.printed, and it was therefore merely laid on the table.
Mr. W. SAI IT II presented a petition from Norwich, re-
peating a prayer already made for removing the-Norfolk Assizes
from Thetford to Norwieth—Ordered to lie on the table.

SPANISH A M ERICA.
-
Sir J. MACKINTOSH said, that to meet the inconvenience
postpone until to-morrow the presenting of
of his Right Hon. Friend, the Secretary of State for Foreign
he should
aAffpetstiirtion from the .Merchants of London, praying for the re-
cognition of the Independence of the South American Colonies
of Spain. He should also, in the absence of the Noble Secretary
at War, postpone until to-morrow the presenting of a petition
from a Gentleman ethe name of 13_01 respecting several griev-

ancesof which he complained, on account of certain securities
for Military Balances.
IRISH EDUCATION.
In answer to some question from Mr. ABEECBOM3Y, which
was quite inaudible,
Mr. Secretary PEEL across the table, said that he had pro-
posed an Address to the Crown on the subject of Education
in Ireland; that the Address was followed by a Commission,
and that he intended to propose instructions to the Commis-
sioners, which should have the effect of answering every in-
quiry Crown for this ptir•
disPosal of the funds entrusted to the
relative to the

_lrpose.
-SCOTCH SMALL DEBTS.
Lord A. HAMILTON brought in the Small Debts Bill for
Scotland.—Read a first time, and ordered for a second reading
on Wednesday.
FOREIGN TRADE.
Mr. WALLACE brought up the first and second Reports of
the Committee on Foreign Trade. —Ordered to lie on the table,
and be printed.
ASSAULT ON MR. BROUGHAM.
The SPEAKER communicated to the House a letter he
11.1 received from Dr. 111onro and Sir George Tuthill, who
had at his desire seen Mr. Robert Gourley, the person now
in custody for an assault committed on Friday last, upon
one of the Members,of the House. It stated that they had
seen and conversed with Mr. Gourlay, and read the papers
he submitted to them ; and upon the best cr:nSideration which
they could give on the question of his sanity, they were
clearly of opinion, that at different times his mind was in an
unsound state, that it was so on Friday last, and still was in
that state.
/Ir. becretary CANNING said., that the most humane
course towards this unhappy man Trauld be to let the subject
pass without any formal motion, se that his friends might have
access to him, and when convenient to themselves to remove
him.

Mr. SCA RIJETT spoke r few words, we believe, in appro-
bationwithout any further remark.
of the course suggesrd, and the subject then dropped
A Message from the 1/ands here announced their Lordships'
Assent to several Bills s among which were the Bills for re-
storin the Scottish Porfeited Peerages, as well as that of
g_ Lord Viscount Staffn'.d.

RY SMITH.
BROM") HAM presented a petition from Alnwick, in
favour of Mr. Smith's cage=Ordered.to lie on the table.

DRY ROT.
Mr. BROUGHAM also presented a petition from an indi-
vidual, assuring the House he could prevent the Dry Pot in
Timber; pro:ying for encouragement.—Ordered to lie on the
table.

RESTORED PEERAGES.
Mr. Secretary PEEL said, that before he moved the first
reading of any of the Bills for restoring the forfeited peerages,
it was his duty to inform the Hodge that the Crown had con-
sented to their restoration—(llear, bear !)—That which pro-
posed to reverse the attainder of Lord Stafford, was considered
merely as an act of justice.—(Hear, hear, hear !).—Those
which went to reverse the attainders of the Scotch Peers
proceeded from the grace and favour of the Crown, as the an-
cestor of those upon whom the Peerage would now fall, had
engaged in rebellion against the reigning Sovereign. These
were the Earldom of Mar, the Viscounties of Kenmure and
Strathallan, and the Lordship of Nairn... lie moved that th
Bill for reversing the attainder of Lord Stafford be read a fi'ist
time.—(Cheers.)
The Bills were then read each a first and second time. •
After a few words from Mr. ABERCUOMBY in apprc;oation
of the measures, and eulogium of the Gentleman vtlio was
about to succeed to the Earldom of Mar ; and from Fir JAMES
MACKINTOSII, in general approbation of the prine;iple which
had regulated the proceeding, by softening the -rigour of the
law. -
Captain BRUCE said he highly approved er the principle
of these proceedings, though he did not approve of tie selec-
tion which had thus been shown. He did not see why the re-
versal of the attainders should be partial. Ile was himself a
collateral d.scendant of the Lord Binley„ - and yielded in no
one to attachment to his Majesty's Goverment. He had asked
for grace and favour on his Majesty's lrAte visit to Scotland ;
and lie should again ask it in the hope that it would not be re-
fused him.

Lord BINNING highly approve', of the sentiments of the
last speaker; and hoped that the fion. Member would be re-
stored to the honours of his family.
Mr. Secretary PEEL said, that, the complaint of his Hon.
Friend shevied at least that the . selection had not proceeded
upon any pulitical considerations..—(Hear, hear ! from Captain
Bruce.)-1...he fact was, that his Majesty's Government had a
choice of only two courses, of indiscriminate or of partial re-
storation. To the first there were many ejections. Among
them he raight mention the difficulty which must arise, in many
cases, from conflicting claims of the titles, and in others from
the aver.tion which some would feel to the receiving of titles
which would prove ISurthunsome to them. Selection therefore
became absolutely nece...sary ; and as the proceeding itself arose
entirely from grace an favour, he did not think the Ministers
t
of the Crown ought
be called upon to enter into the merits
of individual claims.-
(Hear, heat, hear !)—The Right Hon.
Secretary concluded by heartily joining in the eulogium pro-
nounced on the ill. Istrious family who belonged to the Earl-
dom of Marx, an ''‘',arldom which,
according to Sir Matthew
Hale, was one of the oldest, if not the oldest, on record, and
whiph there was season to believe had existed long before the
cothmencement ~)f genuine history.
The Bilk wixe then committed, and the Reports ordered to
be received to -Morrow.
Another Message from the Lords brought a request of their
Lordships, that Mr. Nori:h, a Member of the House, might he
permitted to give evidenci before a Committee of their Lord-
ships. The House answf :red, that they would send an answer
by messengers of their slim.
The Lancaster County Courts Bill was read a third time and
passed.

LAND TAX REDEMPTION.
On the motion of Mr. 3lAnElul' the Order of the Day for
receiving the Repor con the Land Tax Redemption Bill was
read.

Mr. MABLRL'f, in support of the Bill, observed.
that the
Land Tax was pa rticularly arbitrary and objectionable, as it
imposed a perpet'ial tax on land. The sum, too, which was
fixed upon by la! v for its redemption was enormous. He pro-
posed that the C town should have no. other power over this,
than it had over other personal property. The present value of
the Land Redemption Tax was merely, nominal, for no one re-
deemed, and it was his object by the Bill he had brought in, to
render it really available. He wished to do that justice to the
landed interest of. a 'lowing them to redeem the tax at a fair
price, instead of an unfair price. The Right Hon. Gentleman
opposite would tell them that his (Mr. Maberly's) views were
chimerical, but the Right Hon. Gentleman himself was mis-
taken. If his Ilia passed, he was satisfied it would be highly
beneficial to the co untry. The Chancellor of the Exchequer
would have 34 mitt-lions at his disposal, to apply to die reduc-
tion of the unfunded debt, and would be able, within one year,
to reduce five mil lions of taxes.
Mr. lIERRIES moved as an amendment to the motion of
the Hon. Mem!) r, that the Report be brought up that day six
months. Accor ding to his view of the Hon. Gentleman's plan,
he called upon Lhem to make a sacrifice of 400,0001. a year in
order to accoirq dish the redemption of the land tax. The way
in which this less would be made out, he would shortly state.
The Hon. Geraleman proposed to sell the land tax at 24 years
purchase, and apply the proceeds to the reduction of 34 mil-
lions of unfou ded debt. Now the land tax was worth 40 years
purchase at the present respective rates of interest which the
land tax and unfunded debt bore. Thus then it was obvious
that to accomplish the Hon. Member's project, they mubt so.
crifice the difference betwixt 24 years purchase and 40 years
purchase, which would just amount to about 400,0001. a year.
For this reason he opposed the motion.,
Mr. GRE N FELL supported the Amendment. He did not
think the plan of his Him. Friend likely to be productive of any
benefit whatever.

Mr. HUME thought his Hon. Friend entitled to the thanks
of the House for bringing this subject forward. He was, how_
ever, of opinion that his Hon. Friend's plan proposed too great
a sacrifice for the public to benefit by it. The best way would
be to re-commit the Bill, and rectify the obnoxious part of it ;
but certainly they
ought not to give the plan up. The expence
of collection might certainly be saved, and his Majesty's Mini-
sters would spew themselves sincere friends to economy by doing
something of thing of this kind.
mischief. M°Nel,.. opposed the motion. He saw in it nothing but
Mr. MABERLY replied. He was convinced that the mea-
sure would be a most excellent one, but he should not divide
the House upon it, as his Hon. Friend did not support it.
The Amendment was then carried, and the Bill lost.
BRITISH MUSEUM.
Mr. Payne Knight's Donation was read a second time, and
ordered to be committed to-morrow.
Mr. HUME bore testimony, to the value of the collection
which thus became the property of the nation. He had no
doubt other individuals would follow the patriotic example of
Mr. Knight, and the British Museum would very shortly be
able to defy competition from any quarter.

IRISIT INSURRECTION ACT.
D
suir
r.
re fict(i)
URN moved the second reading of the Irish
t.
Mr. ROBERTSON deprecated the continuance of this Ac',
Insurrection LABc
as applied to the present divided state of Ireland. There
were two classes in that country, and the effect of this Act
would be to give one the power of oppression. over the other,
Ile had received a letter from Ireland, informing him that the
Catholics had taken an oath to put to death all the Protestants,
their rancour against thew
man, woman, and child, such was

He was, however, convinced that this was a false alarm, for of
the two millions of Protestants in Ireland, none was ever put to
death except under circumstances of great aggravation on hisown
part. Let the House consider in whose hands they were about to
place this power. The lion. Member here read a printed Ad-
dress to the Magistracy of Ireland in favour of the Insurrection
Act, canjuring them to submit to no temporising measures
with the savages, who were prowling. like midnight, wolves
about their dwellings. He did ma know the author of this
Address, but it was printed, and served to show the feeling of
the Protestants, to whom'they were about to intrust the execu-
tion of this Act, towards the Catholic population of Ireland.-
11y a reference to the evidence, they would find it clearly esta-
blished, that the outrages committed by the Irish did not pro-
ceed' from combination of an extensive nature, but from the
irritation of some supposed injury. Thus, then, if there was
r.o combination in Ireland, there was evidently nothing in that
country which might not be dealt with by the ordinary powers
of the common law. He had no hesitation in saying, that he
considered the Catholics as the more loyal portion of the Irish,
and what must be their feelings, when they found their situa-
tion wantonly aggravated by this Act ? History described the
character of the Irish people as bold and magnanimous, but
modern writers regarded them as sly and treacherous. Whence
could this change proceed, but from ill-treatment, and how
easy was it to recover the affection of such a people ? But
surely this was not to be done by such Bills as this. When
Henry the Eighth undertook to change the religion in this
country, he attempted to force a change without success. Lle
was in the latter part of his reign advised to adopt milder
courses, and these proved much more effective than those by
which they had been preceded, the same effects had been wit-
nessed at a later period ; and with this fact before them,
why should Parliament now imitate the arbitrary system of
Elizabeth and others, rather ehan adopt measures eof conci-
liation. lie took a review of the sufferings to which Ireland
had been subjected, and quot ed the remark made by Lord Clare,
at the time of the Uniona_tliet 11,700,000 acres of Irish land had
been confiscated, while the; surface of the country presented but
11,045,000, so that a great portion of it must have been con-
fiscated inure than once. ''. Ile shewed that the differences which
existed were not merely. between Protestants and Catholics, but
between English and I fish ; and considered the system heretofore
acted upon to be one vehich was well calculated to shale the em.
Aire to its veryfound ieion._ne strongly insisted on the import-
anceofobtaining mo reaccurateintelligeace on the state of Ireland
than the II ouse at present possessed. It was only by granzing a
perfect equality of 'Political rights that the turbulent spirit: which
now prevailed in Ireland could be extinguished. Tilt measure
which had been preeposed fort:lath olic em an cipation would not alone
bring peace to Ir eland. The small er the difference which remained
between the pa Sties while any distinction contiathal, would be
a source of eternal hate. Those were, in his opinion, wrong
who had giv iti up one iota to Ireland, without being prepared
to go on an') yield every thing. By a system of kindness and
conciliatio a he thought the differences might be healed ; till this
should b t tried, he saw no prospect of peace for Ireland or of
iiecurity for England. What glory would it be to the Crown
and to them if that could be at last effected ! and he believed
that 'liey would find it practicable if they once set about it in
eareiest. The Court of Rome was no longer what it was for.
neerly. On that account lie could feel no apprehension. He was
'.pore afraid that she would fall too low than that she would rise
too high. Of what might be effected by mild government, the
Island of Java afforded a curious instance. That Island con-
tained 5,1)00,000 of souls. The Dutch Government then esta-
blished had used great rigour. In consequence of this, no
Dutchman could leave his house or his estate without a guard.
The change effected while Sir Thomas Raffles was Governor
there was surprising. He (Mr. Robertson) Ina travelled
hundreds of miles in that country, and in the dead of night.
—He and his companions had every where found the natives
glad to see them, though four years before no European
could have ventured among them. Such was the character of
that people, that the English ships would not admit one of
them on board, from an idea that treachery and murder were to
be expected. They, however, under the English Governor
were found the mildest and most gentle of beings. Let a simi-
lar change take place in the mode of governing Ireland, and he
would answer for it the same result would be witnessed. He
strongly urged the House to suspend this Bill. NVltether it did
or not, it would be his ditty in the next Session of Parliament
to more for the appointment of a Parliamentary Commission
to enquire into the state of Ireland, which could give them bet-
ter information than they could obtain by any other means.—
He moved as an amendment that the Bill should be read a
second time on that day six months.
Mr. JOHN SMITH seconded the amendment. He agreed
with much of what had fallen from the Hon. Gentleman who
had just sat down. Looking at the present state of Ireland,
and bearing in mind the misery caused by a measure like this,
as an honest man, he could not lay his hand on his heart, and
vote for the present Bill, without better reasons being given in
support of it than had yet been heard. He contended the
causes of Irish distress, disaffection, and revolt, had never
been properly inquired into. The Committee lately ap-
pointed, said they had not had sufficient time to make such
inquiry. He, however, wished they had beguile it, . and
thought they might as well have sent for Irishmen from Ire-
land to give evidence on this subject as to speak to other mat-
ters. Where an intolerant and persecuting religious spirit
prevailed, he would agree that the Insurrection Act might
with propriety be had recourse to; but unfortunately it hap.
pened that to those places where this existed, the measure had
not been applied. He wished justice to he done, and when he
complained of an individual, he never did and never would shel-
-1 ter himself under his Parliamentary privilege. He had formerly
mentioned the conduct of the Provost of Inniskillen, who had
issued his warrant to distrain on the property of an individual
who had been the persecutor of others, and had taken away
the poor man's cow to satisfy those whom lie had prosecuted.
It was thought that he must have been misinformed at the time,
but he believed nobody would now question the truth of the
statement. He had now to state that a case had come to his
knowledge where an outrage having been committed, the of-
fenders were lodged in jail. Two Magistrates went to the
place, determined to investigate the case the next morning,
but in the interim the accused parties were liberated. This
was from religious feeling, and in a part of the country where
this operated so fatally, the Insurrection Act might with some
propriety he introduced ; but there it had never been in force.
!le strongly impressed on the House the importance of inquiry
into the causes of the disturbed state of Ireland, with a view to
introduce a system of toleration, which would unite that coun-
try to this in bonds of amity which could never be broken.
Colonel DAVIES differed from the last speaker. He now
saw an inquiry going on, which he was confident would lead to
the most beneficial results, and could therefore place that confi -
deuce in the Government which he could not repose in them
formerly. Under present circumstance he thought the peace of
Ireland could not be preserved without the Insurrection Act.—
At the same time he felt that the system hitherto acted upon
with respect to Ireland, was bad—was most pernicious—and
ought to be changed. He trusted another Session would not go
over without something being done to effect this, and thought
the Committee which had lately sat had begun at the wrong
end, as they appeared to have occupied themselves in finding
excuses for continuing the Insurrection Act, instead of immix.
ing into the causes of the evil.

lord J. RUSSELL described and lamented the oppressive
proceedings which had taken place under the Insurrection Ad.
A great inany individuals had been taken up,who had turned out
to be persons of good character. In such cases it was no slight
punishment that had been inflicted. Twenty, thirty, or forty
days had sometimes elapsed before the innocence of a man
could be proved,. who had only offended by staying too long at
a fair. Ile complained of the discretion given to various indi-
viduals. Discretion had been justly called by Lord Camden
the " law of tyrants." But here was a discretion given first
to the Petty Constables, then to the Magistrates, next to those
before whom the accused were tried, and lastly to the Lord Lieu.
tenant, of whom it was but right to say that his discretion
had been most wisely, honourably, and liberally exercised.—
He complained of the Insurrection Act, on account of the hard.
ships to which it subjected many innocent persons. In seven
out of ten counties out of the numerous individuals appre-
hended, but four persons had been convicted of the offences
imputed. He was unwilling to pass this unconstitutional law,
in consideration of the assurances given that confidence might
safely be reposed in the present Magistracy of Ireland. But
one course could be taken to tranquillize Ireland. That was,
to give its people the advantages of equal laws. The Govern-
ment ought not to act as a religious sect, which had become
possessed of the power of the State, but considering themselves
appointed but for political purposes, leave the people to settle '
religious disputes among themselves, and not to let these be.
come a subject of quarrel between them and the Government.
He was against giving Ministers the Insurrection Act, and
desired to withhold it, that no compromise might be made with
the great question as to the cause of the existing disturbances,
and wit--; convinced,-if the House agreed with him, that instead
of putting off the inquiry called for from time to time it would
be entered upon without delay.

Mr. GOULBURN considered many of the arguments which
had been urged were arguments not against the passing of this
Bill, but against the present state of Ireland. The Noble Lord
complained of the severity of the measure. It was, however,
not so intrinsically bad but he had in former instances allowed
it to pass without opposition. If, therefore, it ought never to
pass, the Noble Lord himself had been in error. Ministers
only hoped he would extend the same indulgence to others
which he must claim for himself, if he meant to justify his pre-
vious conduct. He had always regretted, as sincerely as the
Noble Lord could do, the necessity of having recourse to such
a measure, when it became his painful duty to submit it to
Parliament, but he deemed it right to do so in order to protect
the well affected against those who combined against all law
and order. Re proposed the measure nq as good in itself, but

only as proper under the circumstances of the case.' They were
told that the presence of a resident gentry was necessary to
tranquilize Ireland. Ile then read apart of the evidence given
before the Committee, from which it appeared that in some
parts of Tipperary the gentry were obliged to remain in doors
after dark, to have all the doors and windows barricadoed.---
Many of the rooms were kept dark during the day, the barri,
cadoes necessary for the windows being too heavy •to be re;
moved. Sometimes the family had but one sitting room, and
even of that all the windows were not open. To a question
put as to whether the windows were barricadoed in another
part of Tipperary, the answer given was, " Not now. They-
were when 1 first went there, but the Insurrection Act is now
in force, and they are no longer closed." In page 42, it
was stated, " that while the disturbances were at their height,
the Magistrates could not go out without an rscort."—Could
it be expected that Gentlemen who retired from the toil of that
[louse to what was called the repose in the country, would
be content to go where they must remain at home in the dark,
and where they could not venture out without a guard ?
Becher, in his evidence, spoke of h.% house, and•that Df his
brother's, being Almost the only houses in theoleighbourhooti
which had not been either visited hi the Whiteboys, or aban•
dotted by their owners. It might le said that lie was describing
things as they were formerly an. not as .they are now. But
if a change were to be rentarted---if Magistrates could reside
in comfort within their hooes, or venture from them with-

out escort, it was becaus, the Insurrection Act had been in
force, and ILy breaking down the turbulent spirit which had
prevailed, afforded the higher classes a relaxation of danger.
He therefore was for leeping the act in force till that inqttirY
could-be made, whirl he thought so desirable and necessary, into
the cause of the e". It was most essential to preserve tran-
quillity in order Co gain an opportunity for making the inquiry-
The.outrages *ha had been committed, Made the enactments
of this law siost necessary. It was not particular], directed
against the Catholics. The brother of a Roman Catholic Itishop
had been murdered, and because this law was had recourse *-
then, end was used to repress such outrages, would it be main-
Lama that its object was to elevate the Protestant ut the expense
of *le Catholic ? The Ronian Catholics were, in many instances,
realms to the violence which prevailed, being sacrificed for
enhabiting lands of which others had been dispossessed. Ile
proceeded to chew* from the report, that in the evidence of
those who had been examined before the Committee, the renewal
of the Insurrection Act was necessary to preserve the public
peace. He asked for the law to protect the magistrate and the
peasant, and the well-disposed part of the community. Ile
asked it not for the purpose of oppression ; he should be asham-
ed to do so on the part of the Government, and if he did, he
hoped the House of Commons would refuse to grant it.
Mr. ABERCROM BY said it was impossible to approach
the discussion of this most odious and most oppressive law, it
was impossible not to see that its necessity arose out of a per-
manent system of mis-government. Notwithstanding that .11e
had the highest respect for some of the Committee, he had
the misfortune to disagree with them in the report before the
House. The grounds upon which the Act had been recom-
mended, were those of necessity and extreme urgency. And
if he looked to that report, he saw the most strongly expressed.
opinion of its necessity from persons for whom he had the high'
eat respect as Magistrates. But when he was called upon to
suspend the liberties of so large a body of people and saw in the
reasons upon which those opinions were founded, and that they(
contradicted the reference. he felt it his duty to pause before he
voted for its adoption. What was the result of their evidence
as to the eventual effect of the law They stated that it left
the people with the same if not a greater disposition to disturb=
auce. In fact, it only went to suppress the evil by force
for the moment, and left its causes unnoticed or aggravated.--'
Many persons were committed by Magistrates,- and often set
at liberty after six weeks' imprisonment, without any charge
being pursued against them. The consequence was, that
these peep le all became disaffected to the Government, and then.
this Act was again called for, because they did not love and
venerate the laws. In the County of Cork there were above
400 committals under the Act, and only 74 were afterwards
brought to trial. By the evidence of Mr. Sergeant Lloyd it
appeared that the greater number of these people were people
bearing good characters in their own neighbourhood, and bein4
entirely ignorant upon the nature of the law which they ha
broken. The Hon. and Learned Member then alluded to the
state of the Magistracy, contending that it gave rise to marl
of the evils, and was in itself a sufficient reason why the law .
ought not to be resorted to. By whatever test they tried the
Insurrection Act, the result would be found equally hostile to
its adoption, as a measure calculated to produce any permanent
good effect. At first, it was said to put down combinations
but when they went further into the evidence, they found that
combinations had in fact been put down by approvers who al,-
plied to the ordinary tribunals. For these reasons he should
not vote for the renewal of the Act
,Mr. Secretary PEEL admitted that this Act was unconsti-
teuffitiaocn:lo;f butit,
t tohen h
ei twsobeing
have inefficacious, caadeeiooutait,
athcaatscwwashythteheqnp
tion ; and if the lion, and Learne,odmaGsneinitttteeeman chewed the in'
Gentlemann nait
o uso tsiuopn
phsoai
ridot uoalfltll
toni oe
et
Condb.
T hmittatece "the measure had erne"s:
lwiason.
formed
eldiof.
all
parties, and the great majority of that Committee were favour-
ably disposed to the Catholics. The unanimous opinion of such
a body, he thought, claimed some confidence from the House,
as they were all the parties who had heard the evidence. ;';'n
only were that Committee unanimous in favour of the measure,
but the same could be said of every Gentleman who gave evi-
dence before them. It might be asked why the Committee
were not appointed earlier in the Session. But that applied to
the Noble Lord opposite as well as to the Government; for the
moment he brought forward his motion, that moment the Com-
mittee was appointed. The evidence of Mr: Becher was neces-
sarily looked to with the highest confidence and value ; and
opinion was as decidedly in favour of the necessity of the mea-
sure as that of any Gentleman examined by the Cordmittee-
Hon. Gentleman had stated the Insurrection Act to be
sought by the Protestants as an instrument for oppressing their
Catholic Countrymen. He believed, upon his honour, that 3
greater libel upon the Protestants of Ireland could not be con-
ceived. A proof of this was supplied by the fact, that it never
was applied for by the North of Ireland, where religious ani-
mosities ran high. In the County of Fermanagh there were
serious disturbances, but the Insurrection Act had never been
applied for. His Right Honourable Friend had called the attene
Lion of the House to the state of the Resident Gentleman ill
Ireland, when shut up as a prisoner in his house, during the .
existence of those barbarous outrages which had been so ra"
meatably frequent. But what was his state to that of the
poor and industrious peasant who was well disposed.--•
The Gentleman had his house secure, while the peasant, who
lived in a thatched cabin, never went to bed without the fear
of having it burnt over his head unless he joined the
criminal perpetrators of murder. From Mr. Bennett
evidence at appeared that many poor people were com-
pelled to join the disturbers by the fear of these nightly burn..
Inge. When he heard so much of horror expressed at the In-
surrection Act, and pity for those who were die victims
of it, lie could not help claiming a little of that pity for
the poor unfortunate man, who was in the situation he had
described. In the two years previous to the application of
the Insurrection Act, fourteen murders were committed in one
barony, the perpetrators of which were never brought to
justice. The Insurrection Act was a bad thing, but mur-
der and burnings were worse.—(Hear, hear !)—He was not
prepared to admit that the Government was disgraced by the
necessity for demanding these powers. From the beginning of
the last reign a series of measures for bettering the condition of
Ireland had been adopted, and the greatest sympathy was now'
felt and expressed by the Legislature upon every topic con-
nected with her improvement and happiness. He and others
had the misfortune to differ from the Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man and his friends upon the relief to be given to Catholics;
but were they desirous of oppressing Ireland because they
held such opinions conscientiously and honestly ?--(flear !)--
The case was before the House, recommended by a Committee .
composed of those who thought with him and against him upon
that question, and he thought it could not refuse to grant the
net satire. .

31r. ROBERTSON explained.
Mr. TRANT spoke in support of the motion in so low a tore
of voice that his observations did not reach the gallery.
Mr. AB E RCRO:IIBY explained.
Mr. S. RICE was ready to give a reluctant aseeort to this
motion. If he could go entirely along with those. NO° had
before spoken, he should be more. satisfied with suel) a vote,
and should less feel the necessity of an, explanation.--A
Last year he had stated himself ready .to continue this ex-
traordinary power, if an inquiry into the general state 01
Ireland should be allowed. This was now the case—such an
inquiry was now going on—and he therefore felt himself bound
to redeem his pledge. After defending the course pursued by the
Committee, the Ron. Member stated-, that the Members of the
Government, so far front throwing impediments in the way 13,1
their inquiry, they had thrown open every avenue tbr a full and
fair investigation. With the exception of Mr. Becher's eV?
dence, he should not have satisfied his conscience by such el"
dence as that of Crown Lawyers or Police Magistrates. lie
knew that the character of many of these individuals was high,
and entitled them to every respect. But they were not sources
to which be should look for information upon such a subject.
lie preferred seeing the Insurrection - Act administered by
Se.rjeants sent down-Untler the rung's Commission, to seeing it
administered by the Magistrate. It engendered no permanent
hostility between them and the people, and it was notorious
that by some of the lower class of Magistrates justice had been
bought and sold. lie expected-the greatest advantage to Ire-
land from the labours of the ComMittee, but most of all from the
evidence which would be produced relative to the Catholic
question. That evidence he was sure would more contribute 00
advance the question in the public mind than all the arguments

_ ..., . .. .
were V d declamation which had been heard ill that House. For
.3, to these reasons he should support the motion. PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS. WEST INDIA. DOCKS. . .
;iven . Mr. DENMAN said, they were not bound to adopt the re-
smile commendation of any Committee. The measure had been
loots described to be advantageous, but he considered it unneces- 110 USE OF COMMONS.
, 14° die Junii, 1 59.4. DELIVERIES for the WEEK, and STOCK ON HAND,
ed.--• aary, because it had failed in producing the desired effect. He Lunce for the Week ending the 12th of June, 1824.
larri, complained that the worst provisions of the old Act were to be BREACH OF PRIVILEGE.—Mr. Speaker communicated to the , -
.e re- renewed. He contended that the powers given by this Act ,- - Delivered.
House a Letter from Dr. Monro and Sir George Tuthill, who and ought no tto be intrusted to any Government. He concurred Stock on
had been directed to visit Robert Gourlay, in custody of the .
'stio° in the motion that the Bill be put off for six months. Articles. Home Export,- Hand.
Serjeant at Arms attending this House, as follows :
othec - Mr. V. FITZGERALD rose to rescue the Magistracy of
Con-
June 11, 1824. • tion.
They Ireland from the attack of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. Stn —ln obedience to your commands, we have had several
now . The provisions of the Act had been described in strong terms
2. it by the lion. and Learned Gentleman, but it was known that interviews with Mr. Robert Gourlay, for the purpose of ascer-
ight, the Act could not be enforced in any but counties in actual in- taming the state of his mind. And now, after repeated con- If lids - - ;159 10 12,9C8
'Vida .aurreetion. In the endeavour to rescue the Magistracy from versations with him—after hearing him detail many of the prin- Sugar
'that the imputations cast on them, he should only refer to the eyi- cipal events of his life—and after carefully considering what he Tierces - - 154 - 986
mild -deuce given by every individual examined on the subject.— has recently written, it is our opinion that his mind has at dif-
ferent periods exhibited proofs of unsoundness ; that he was of 327
Lark, There' had not been one solitary instance in which any person {Puncheons . 382 21,584
Mr- . exercising' the official duties of a Magistrate, had been charged unsound mind on Friday last when he assaulted a Member of Rum
f Isis with partiality. If that were as, he left the House to say whe- the House ; and that he continues in the same state. Inds - - 12 l4 810
hood titer the Magistrates were not vindicated. He supported the re- We have the honour to remain, Sir,
ban' enactment of this measure, because the re-enactment was un- With the greatest respect, { Hfids and Tierces 127 666 9,208
bing avoidable, but he could not help feel;.ng the deepest regret that Your most obedient humble servants, Coffee
But a measure so much at variance with the best principles of the EDw. THos. 111 o Nolo, M I.D. Barrels and Bags 18 437 23,5 V
elide Constitution was necessary. In the present state of the country, GEO. L. TururEE, 31. D.
{ vith- there was no security for personal safety or property without the To the Right Honourable , The Speaker of the House of Commons. Cotton
Bales and Bags 50 - 320
!II ii, - renewal of this law. The Bill which was renewed by reCom-
had. mendation of the Committee, was renewed tally for the protec- MESSAGE FROM THE LOE.DS—That they have agreed to, Pockets and Serena .. . . 31
igen tion of persons against a system of terror. Cocoa Nuts Bill, East India Goods Bill, Parochial Stipends •
tuirY Mr. DENM AN explained. (Scotland) Bill, Buckingham and Towcester, and Radnor . Butts and Pipes 19 - 1,52•5
into Mr. M. FITZGERALD opposed the measure. He b.:.- and Hereford Roads Bills, Dundee Police Bill, Generglyn wine
:ran- lieved no Government could act with more sincerity than the (Cardigan) Inclosure Bill, Redruth Railway Bill, and Can_ 'Bids and i Casks 25 . 3 1,013
airy- Government of Ireland. No person could do more for the wel- terbury Waterworks Bill, without amendment ; and to •
tent,' fare of Ireland than a Noble Marquis. He did not therefore Tithe Composition (Ireland) Bill, Lancaster Tithes Bill, Casks - - - A 133
cu.(
I apply any blame to the Government, but he opposed the renewal Dublin Local Taxation Bill, Castle Island Estate 13111, and Pimento ,
shop of the Bill, because experience in the administration of the law Alliance Assurance Company Bill, with amendments ;an Bags - - 26 208 4,554
Sc to- had proved, that the application of Special Commissions to try and to the amendments to Newfoundland Judicature Bill,
13in- offen its disturbed districts had been found efficient. Martial and Newfoundland Marriages Bill. { Casks - - 119 - 395
Ginger
awe law, as exercised under Lord Cornwallis, was a better state of That they have passed Bills for the restoration of Five
Ices, Clings than that occasioned by the operation of the Insurrection. Peers, and Cooke's and Frederick's Estates Bills. Bags - - - - 11
I fir: • Act. He did not feel satisfied with the evidence on which the ESTATEl—Marquis of Anglesea's, Maxwell's, and Macrae's,
Be Committee had recommended the renewal of the Act. —Bills read a third time, and passed. Earl of Galloway's, - - 16 - 764
-e 04 Mr. N. COLTHURST said it was admitted that several Sir Charles Morgan's, Proctor's, and Tollett's—Bills read a (;asks
,
Lava,' parts of Ireland could not be governed by the ordinary operation second tine, and committed. Sir John Frederick's, and Bags - . 9 - 1,824
iblic of the law, and, if that was the case, could they resort to a bet- Cooke's—Bills read a first time.
i the ter measure than the Insurrection M ? • BILL DG E.—Southwark 1 Bills considered in Committee, and re- Logwood Tons . . 84 L
4 17 4,3861
Ho The question was then loudly called for, and the House di- larsit Roans ) ported for this day.
chi n- sided— WILSON'S DIVORCE Fustic Tons . - 4 li 1,911,1,
he For the Motion - - . 112 ETWALL CHARITIES
For the Amendment .. - 23 PAY NE KNIGIIT'S DONATION Bills read a2d time, Chests of Sugar . .. .. - .. - 7,902
Nadi ' Majority for the second reading —B9 KILTERNAN ANI)KIE0OBBAN UNION and committed
~. it ' qn.... rim x.r.. rpa,s . ce.rrina time_ and committed. for this day. REVENUE OFFICES • Casks of Molasses - . . . _ _ 102

The question was then loudly called for, and the House di,
vided—
For the Motion 112
For the Amendment - 23
Majority for the second reading —39
The Bill was read a second time, and committed for this day,

INSURRECTIONS (Ireland)
CO3llANY—Annuity (Ireland)
LANCASTER COUNTY Covjm;

NEW CHURCHES
MARINE" INSURANCE

WAREHOUSIN G (Ireland)
FREE MASONS—Petition from, of King's
of the Act of last Session, which prof
certain Societies ; to lie on the table.

Bills read a 3d time,
and p&ssed.

County, complaining
iibits the meeting of

NOT Aln Es—Petition from Linlitligowlrhire, for repeal of
the Duties on Licences to act as Notaries Public, to lie on
the table.

SMALL DEBTS RECOVERY (Scotland)—Bill" to alter and
amend an Act passed in the 39th and 40th Geo. 3, c. 40, for
the Recovery of Small Debts in Scotland," read a first time,
to be read a second time on Wednesday.
FOREIGN TRADE CO3IMITTEE—First and Second Reports
brought up and read—to lie on the table.
REVERSAL OF ATTAINDER—Viscount Stafford's, Earl of
Mar's, Viscount Strathallan's, Lord Nairn's, and Viscount
Kenmure's—Bills read a first and second time, and corn.
milted for this day.
LAND TAX REDEMPTION
lIORSES SLAUGHTERING Bills put off for six months.
TENANTS RELIEF (Ireland)
ECCLESIASTICAL BENEFICES
ENTAILED ESTATES (Scotland) Bills to be read a 3d
MAGISTRATES INDEMNITY (Ireland) time this day.
(USTO)IS AND EXCISE ORDER.

NOTICES OF MOTIONS FOR THIS DAY.
I. Mr. Dominick Browne—Establishment of a Roman Catho.
lie Church in Ireland, in connection with the State.
2. Mr. Wodehouse—To refer to a Select Committee, the Peti-
tion from the Magistrates of Norfolk, against holding the
Lent Assizes at Thetford.
3. Sir James Mackintosh.. To present Petition from Merchants
of London, relating to the Independence of South America.
4. Sir James Mackintosh—To present Petition from Robert
Bell, complaining of being compelled improperly to give
security to the War Office.
5. Mr. Spring Rice—Bill to consolidate and amend the Laws
respecting Paving Lighting, and Watching Cities and
Towns in Ireland.
ORDERS OF THE DAY FOR THIS DAY.
I. Southwark Bridge Bill—Report.
2. Wilson's Divorce Bill—Committee—CounseL
3. Payne Knight's Donation Bill—Committee.
4. Insurrection Act Amendment (Ireland) Bill—Committee.
b. East India Possessions Bill—Second Reading.
6. Superannuation Fund Bill—Report.
7. Corporators (Ireland) Bill—Second Reading.
8. Dublin Police Bill--Third Beading.
9. Law Expences (Ireland) Bill—Committee.
10. Entailed Estates (Scotland) Bill—Third Reading.
11. Ecclesiastical Benefices Bill—Third Reading.
12. Kilternan and Kilgobban Union Bill—Committee.
111, Revenue Officers Bill—Committee.
14. Clerk of the Parliaments Bill—Second Reading.
15. Magistrates Indemnity (Ireland) Bill-7.-Third Reading.
16. Irish Roads Bill—Report.
17. Customs or Excise Order Bill—Third Reading.
18. Frederick's Estate Bill—Second Reading.
19. Cooke's Estate Bill—Second Reading.

THE SUN.

;eS-
hii
ea-
tce

SOLRM QUIS DICERB FALSUM AUDE4T .5?

LONDON,
TUESDAY, JUNE 15, 1824.

NOTICES GIVEN YESTERDAY.
Wednesday, June IG.
1. Mr. Hume—Returns relating to Impressment of Seamen.
2. Mr. William Smith—To present Petition from certain as.
seaters for the Repeal of Corporation and Test Acts.