The Sun.
London, England, 1841-04-02 00:00:00

NEWFOUNDLAND.

On the motion of Mr. PAKINGTON, the following
Members were appointed a Select Committee on the state
of the colony of Neafoundland :—Mr. Pakington, Lord
John Russell, Lord Stanley, Lord Viscount Hoaick, Mr.
Gladstone, Sir George Grey, Lord Viscount Sandon, Mr.
Sheil, Lord Ashley, Mr. Langdale, Sir James Graham,
Mr. Ward, Sir Thomas Cochrane, Mr. Charles Buller,
and Mr. Lascelles.
Lord MORPE al, in the absence of Mr. E. J.
Stanley, moved for leave to bLing in a Bill to enable the
Commissioners of Wide Streets to tell, and her Majesty
to purchase, certail hereditaments in the City of Dublin,
on the north bank of the River Anna Liffey.

Sir R. PEEL begged to ask in what manner it was in-
tended to appropriate the ground so to be purchased? Ile
apprehended that it would be found useful for exercising
the troops in the garrison.
Lord MORPE TII said it would be rendered not only
available for exercising the troops, but also to the inhabi-
tants as a place of recreation and amusement.—(Hear.)
Leave was then given to bring
in the Bill, and
the
Noble Lord gave notice of a Committee of the whole
House for to-morrow, to obtain the consent of the Crown
for the purcba;e of the lane.
POPULATION BILL. the third
reading of the Population Bill on the first instance, then
the Committee on the Ordnance Estinia:es, and afterwards
the Committee on the Poor-law Amendment Bill. The
Noble Lord then moved the third reading cf the Popula-
tion Bill.
In answer to a question fror:. Sir W. FOLLETT,
Lcrd J. RUSSELL said that his Noble Friend, the
Secretary fur Leland, would stele, immediately after
Easter, the exact course which the Government
meant to pursue with regard to the Irish Regis-
tration
Bill. In the meantime, it would be necessary
to reprint the clause relative to the franchise, and they
proposed to go on Monday into Committee on the fran-
chise, and on the Thursday following they would make
their financial statemement.
The Dill was then read a third time end passel.
ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE BILL.

In answer t) a quesi3n from Sir W. FOLLETT,
Lc;rd J. RUSSELL said that be wuuld tye ready to

state to-morrow or on Monday, when he intended to prb-
ceed with the Administration of Justice Bill.
ORDNANCE SURVEY.
Lord J. RUSSELL having moved the Order of the
Day for the Committee on the Ordnance Survey,
Sir ADOLPHUS DALRYMPLE pat a qnestion to
his Hon. and Gallant Friend at'the head of the Ordnance
Department respecting the powers left to the officers
engaged/in the Ordnance survey. The Hon. and Gallant
Member spoke amidst much noise in the House, and was
not distinctly heard.
Sir HUSSE Y VIVIAN was understood to said*
perhaps the officers did push their instructions respeetieg
geological inquiry too far, but some better arraegeihent
would be made in future.
Lord G. SOMERSET thought a proper survey shouid
be made, in a proper manner, by persons delegated by Go.
vernment. He said delegated by the Government, becatnie
there would be in the survey interference • with. pd.-
vats property. There were many , provisions,
however, of the Bill to which -be greatly oh-
jected. He objected to Lords-Lieutenant of Counties
having anything to do with the selection of the pat,
ties who were to mark out the boundaries. • The next
part of the machinery to which he objecteA
was the county surveyors. He thought the appoint-
ment of such an officer was extremely wrong,
because, generally speaking, he was a man of little
or no education, and therefore it was to be supposed
that ho would not understand the business thit
was to be delegated to him.—( Hear, hear.)
So there were two of the persons to whom these power's
were to be entrusted as unfit for them as could _well be
imagined. Then there was another person, named the
high constable, but this person had not necessarily the
knowledge that would be required of him for this office, nor
would the two persons who might be selected in his stead, It
was but right this survey should be taken as as not to give ode
party an unfair advantage over the ether. He thought the
Ordnance Department should have the sole responsibillo
of this measure, and consequently the sole power of ap-
pointment under the Bill. He thought the lords of the
manor ought to have due notice of tho survey before It
took place, and that they ought, either by themselves or
their agents, to attend it. Ile thought that no boundariste
ought to be fixed by the survey, and he should propose a
special clause, enacting that this survey -should never be
tendered in a Court of Justice as evidence of boundaries.
He hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would take the Com-
mittee pro forma that evening, apd_oonsider the objectiwass.--
he had made, and if the Bill were altered in that manner
he should give it his cordial support. He had shown no
jealousy of the Right Hon. Gentleman in making these
suggestions, as every amendment he had proposed was for
the purpose of throwing additional power into his hands,
at the same time, of course, increasing his responsibility.
Sir H. VIVIAN would content to take the Committee
proforma th4t evening. He objected however, to ECM
of the slterati-ns proposed by the Noble Lord. The Bill
had been drawn as much as possible on the principle of the
Irish Bill, which had been found to work exceedingly
well. There must be some person acquainted with the
country to attend the officers conducting the survey, and
he thought the Lord Lieutenant was the proper officer to
appoint sueh person. He preferred the Lord Lieutenant
to the Chairman of the Quarter Sessions or the Clerk of
the Peace. He would prepare a chute enacting that the
boundaries laid down by the survey should not interfere
with local boundarie,, and should not be tendered in evi-
deace. They could not do without marks, but be would
take care that the marks should be made with as little
offensive as possible.
Mr. GOU LBU RN objected to one clause in this Bill
—the interpretati .n clause—as admitting too great a lati-
tude of interpretation. The word " county" was made
to mean any city, ton, borough, parish, borough royal.
Parliamentary borough, extra parochial, or otter place.--
(Hear, hear.) The tame latitude was extended to persons;
13'0 cona Ile being construed to mean a sheriff, clerk,
steward, churchwarden, coroner, or any public officer. He
hoped the Hon. Gentleman would see the propriety of al.
tering this cause.

•
After a few words from Sir E. KNATCHBULL, the
House went in o Committee on the Bill.

Lord G. SOMERSET had many objections to the
power to be given by this Bill to the Lords Lieutenant;
and as he was obliged to leave town to attend his duties as
Chairman cf Quarter Sessions, he trusted the Right Han.
Gentieman would have no objection to postpone the furg
ther progress of the BM till after Easter. That postpone-
ment would be no den iment, for it would ba totally impor-
Bible for them to surtey any county until the crops were off
the ground. He was most anxious that there should be a
proper Ordnance officer appointed, who would be respon-
sible; but as tho rights of lords of manors might be effected,
be was anxious that they should have notice, in order that
they might attend persorally or by deputy, in order to
guard them.
Sir 11. VIVIAN would certainly adopt the amend-
ments of the Noble Lord as far as possible. But,
as it was evident that there must be some person
to give information to the Ordnance officer, and as
ho was not going to survey manara but parishes and hun-
dreds, he thought the Lord Lieutenant was the proper
person to appoint such person as could give the best infor.,
illation in the various localities. With respect to the delay
asked for, the Noble Lord would remember that they
would have to survey many towns and buildings, so that
they might be most profitably employed aEbough they
coald not run their chains across fields until the autumn.
He hoped the B:11 would be allowed to pass without delay.
Some verbal amendments were introduced—the House
resumed—the Report was brought up and ordered to be
further considered to-morrow.

The Report on the }bugling Cattle Bill was brought
up—to be read a third time to-morrow.
POOR-LAW AMENDttteNT- Bitt7-

Lord J. RUSSELL moved the Order of the Day for
going into Committee on the above Bill.
Mr. ALST ON presented a petition from the board of
guardians at Watford praying that the owners of pro-
perty under the value of 101. should be the parties rated.
The House then went into Committee.
On clause 18 being proposed,
Lord G. SOMERSET hoped that upon consideration
the Noble Lord would omit the clause. It provide,' for
sudden derangements of trade when the workhouse be-
came too fall, but it alto gave the power to the guardians
of one workhouse to contract for the support of the extra
pour, or poor of another parish, for a period not
more than seven years, to which he had many objections.
The general tendency of the practice of persons contract-
ing for the support of the poor—where one party would
endeavour to bring down as much as possible the price
of the other—would he most injurious to the unfortunate
paupers. There was another thing, too, which made bine
object to the practice to which he alluded; every Poor-law
guardian would seek to have the Poor-law system carried
into operation in the cheapest manner possible, and
the result would be, that the party contracting at the
cheapest rate would be employed, whereby the poor would
be very far from being benefited. He would, also, re-
mind the House, that as the clause now stood every old
pauper, both mile and f.male, might be removed from
one workhouse to another —the stied husband might be se.
parated from his wife, with whom he had passed the
greater portion of his life, and sent off to a district where
be was a complete stranger. It was in his ( Lord G.
Somerset's) mind no small grievance that paupers should
be severed from all those ties and connections which ren-
dered life dear. There was nothing in the clause which
would prevent a pauper being sent from Cornwall to
Durham. He (Lord G. Somerset) did not mean to say
that such a thing was likely, but then the clause would
admit of such being done, and in the case of able-bodied
labourers, who might, from temporary want of employ.
ment, be compelled to enter the workhouse, that was a
where they where known, and thus when they left the
veedryistriet severeet garigevreaantce. distaTncheosfe lromabotuhreerpsarmtigollftthbee
country
workhouse be unable to get employment, in consequence
of their being utter strangers in the place. The clause
would in that instance cause a manifest injustice to be
done those mete He was, therefore, of opinion that the
clause ought to be omitted:
Lord J. RUSSELL said the intention of the clause
was not exactly that the Noble Lord supposed. One
main reason for its proposal was that many parishes had
not sufficient workhouses to receive the inmates sent there,
and that it would be more advantageous that the manage-
ment cf the poor should be carried on in workhouses of
sufficient size than in temporary erection:. At the same
time, he admitted there was great force in the Noble
edthowuigthhat
Lord's objection, that the clause, as now brought up, might
afterwards he used for purposes for which it was not 10-
tended, and so not only cause considerable disaffection
among the poor, but real practical inconvenience. With
respect to tl.,e amendment of the clause, it appeared to him.
there wee two modes in which it might be amended. One
was, by preventing contracts being made with Iney)
It4rneria33le
at a great distance—for instance, ten miles. TO
1 effect of th
let, if they had after
uLuotrdt
bperiorp
consent,osed th a t
but
te
bpoore( L81011.7'1 d
John
et be
uressel;
practical
oradetreast the clause,°
ethmeeuNdombeleetLiolerdpsrvoopeuldsed7wutuhladt tbhee
wards to consult the paupers; a. , moreover,ra it would be
because the guardians could not contract,
f they required
it,
obeuLsaritisuficalthosauigdh ititwofurledquently
happened be girl; g up the
to be taken back to their
and • "
uncertainty, it would
there would be constant
t the clause in operation.
There impossible to put the
which it occurred him .
to that
There was another mode in
be altered, and with which Fe should
the clause might
hardlyp e
re, possible,net
to allow
of
havingnthtl
olefcwl
tahouebs
tetbia,nei
infant
them,
amt
if
oartc oounenusodenneni
confine
nntoeh,f
et
clausehtdahenierdepcat
iuoen
cetra.inGly
it would be a
of the board of guardians. There were many workhouses
great advantage if these
employed for this purpose instead of erecting new
at a great
ones expense. He could not, however, as be
bad fail, agree to requiring the consent of the poor for
their removal, which he thought would render the clause
nugatory, and than which it had better be left out alto.
workhouse;ttohwitoiorateitrtrgtieh:tiebneueacislmveedos
gctber.
tote-efinhabitaets, and that during that time the guardians
alid when the peartioadnyartriimveed
acre Willi ' willing teat persons who would pav should come
into them, but if the guardians contracted for seven years
workhouses
'bntjagieeieentmo -
net competent tfa. receive those whom it was desirable to
receive, they would be necessarily driven to the alterna-
atth the
bieb numbers
the wouldwerkb
einuceree swages,
tivo of resorting to out-door relief. He was quite aware
of the diffi,Ai!ty with respect to parishes which had not
sufficient accommodation, but he thought the best remedy
would be for them to place themselves in a situation to
Noble Lord would find it
much cas'er to omit the clause than to amend it, for it was
calculated to excite a well-founded prejudice against the
Bill. lie knew that between 1,200 and 1,500 of the best
gwibvAeeirree.fftbNiveetylivav,r:
were
,r operation
thought
foundo g h t
necessary.t o
the
ho e law by erecting
workmen in Sheffield have been lately compelled to throw
themselves upon tae parish for relief during the temporary
depression of trade. It would be a great hardship on them
1
to be compelled to -go to the union workhouse.—(Hear.)
He hoped the clause would be withdrawn.
After a few words from Mr. D AREY,
Lord JO HN RUSSELL said he would withdraw the
clause.—(Cheers.)