The Sun.
London, England, 1824-03-10 00:00:00

WEDNESDAY, MAR CH JO, 1824.

some of these, from their connection with that part of the
United Kingdom most likely to be affected, by the measure,
were the best qualified to judge ofits propriety that could have
been chosen. After the fullest consideration of the Report of
the Committee, by the House, the plan now acted upon was
adopted. It was true their Lordships had but a choice of evils.
The Committee proposed what appeared to them as the best
regulation, and which, after several long debates, was agreed
to. The great object proposed to be attained by the regulation,
was to do justice to the appellants, who called for the decision
of the House on their cases, and more particularly to those of
that part of the United Kingdom to which the greatest arrear
was due. There certainly was some difference of opinion as
to the mode proposed in the Committee, but there was no
difference of opinion as to the necessity of getting rid of the ar-
rear of appeals by some means or other. Their Lordships must
be aware, that a commission of inquiry into the administration
of justice in Scotland was going on. The Report of that Com-
mission would soon be laid before Parliament, and he hoped
that, in consequence of its recommendation, measures would be
adopted to lessen the number of appeals ; hut if their Lord-
ships were certain that the system of administrating justice in
, still it would be necessary to get rid of
appeals. The measure was therefore
likely to be of a temporary nature. At any rate, when it was
tShceotelxanisdtin wasg appear perfect
of
adopted, the proposal of any other plan would have been
readily listened to; but that now acted upon was then thought
the best, and experience had proved it to be very efficient.
With respect to the discredit with which the Noble Lord was
afraid the judicial authority of the House would be brought, he
could not see how that was likely to be the result of an evident
wish to do justice. As to the objection taken to the mode of
securing the attendance of Peers, he conceived it to be of little
weight. He must maintain, that whether three Lords or thirty
were present, the decision which they came to was the decision
of the House, and was as complete as if every Noble Lord were
in his place when it was made. By the regulations made for
their Lordships' Government, three Peers constituted a Houses
but by the regulations of the Commons, forty Members must
be present before that House was formed. But was it ever
meant by these regulations that the numbers rerluired to be
present at the commencement of a sitting must continue until
its close, or until the business before them was concluded ?
There certainly was no obligation of that kind. A limited
number was necessary in either House to set the proceedings a
going, and to continue them ; but it was not expected that the
same individuals should always be present. Though certain
Lords were summoned to attend on the hearing of appeals, it
was not to be supposed that no other Noble Lords were present.
Those to whose judgment in matters of that kind the House
was accustomed to pay respect were often in their places. A
Noble and Learned Friend of his (Lord Itedesdale), who was
exempted on account of his age, and whose name had not been
drawn, nevertheless gave his attendance on appeals. In fact,
the proceedings in appeals went on precisely as before, every
member of the House being at liberty to attend if he pleased :
the only difference was, that measures were now taken to secure
a House of Peers. It having, after mature consideration, been
decided that the present plan should be adopted, he trusted
that their Lordships would give it a fair trial.
Lord HOLLAND concurred in the justice of the observa-
tject,
ions
wouldl be
Lord CA ',THORPE explained.
made by the Noble Baron (Caltliorpe), and thought it
few words on this subject. It was perfectly
his duty to say
true, as
eg ppeals was adopted, after much consideration, last Sea-
ttle NobaleEawrliolriad said, that the present plan of hear_
Lon a;
and it was also perfectly true that the subject was in-
volved in much difficulty ; but he must, in justice to himself,
say, that when he came to consider the nature of the plt-,n, he
could not help saying then, and now, that it was a most cen-
surable Parliamentary proceeding—one which operated more
against the honour and the foundation of the dignity of Par-
liament than any with which lie was acquainted. The Noble
Earl was of opinion, that the regulation worked well and con-
veniently for those who applied to avail themselves of its oper-
ation. But whether it had this effect or not, it afforded the
first instance of a distinct exposure to the public that the deci-
sions made within these walls were not the decisions of the
House of Peers, but of certain eihdividuals; and that their
Lordships, as to anyjudgmel;t„Ynieh was given, were reduced
to the state of mere ciphers. .In" Was the first time in which it
Lordships should be called on,
nnvenience was the ratio suasoria as well as
and do their duty. This pro-
tthhaetirtipielairces
chb
eyaeddn
iabni
nege
e.,n,otfdetermined
w h itcehn dcoi
pregnant with evil. After more re-
was
assure their Lordships, that it
fltheectrioantio. jn
appeared to him that it would be better even to make sonic
embuesttter to app-eint a committee, and
en-
croachment on the constitution, than to go on with such a regu-
invest it with the judicial authority of the I Louse, than to adhere
to a measure which was sappie e
lation ditill:gifts'
tle respect (Inc front the pub-
lic to the House. It was certainly tr tno law decisions
were adopted without consulting ill, ul\!obLle and Learned per-
sons who presided, or had seats in the House. Bit that was
not necessary. Every Noble
4-ro was entitled to vote accord-
ing to his own opinion ; he knew of no distinction of Learned
and unlearned Lords,—they
were all pares in Parliament°,
They were all equally Peers, whether
they sat on a woolsack
or on a bench ; but now, for the first time, this resolution re-
specting the hearing of appeals
informed the public that there
were distinctions among them h •
-st at it was not the body of the
Peers who gave jtulgment,
Jut other persons who attended
and decided for them. He
-new it would he said, that it had
always been so—that the decisions; were formerly given by the
when
Law Lords who attended, b
ut
when the fact was so distinctl the difference was very great
y exposed. Every an in th
country was now informed of the manner in whichm this busie-
ness was managed, and knew perfectly well that one Noble
Lord was summoned to hear an appeal on the Monday, and
another Noble Lord to hear the continuance of the same ap-
peal on the Tuesday. He did not mean to say that any prac-
tical injustice was done to the appellants by this regulation
but what he objected was the exposure which it created, and
which, as a Member of that House, in which he had spent a
considerable part of his time, he could not but deplore. In-
deed, he would not now have said what he had stated on this
subject had he not felt it to be his duty to support the observa-
tions of the Noble Lord, who had so justly described the man-
ner in which the House was lowering itself in public opinion.
The Noble Earl opposite had stated that this measure was
merely a temporary ere. He sincerely hoped it would prove
so. He hoped that the result of the Commission in Scotland
would soon enable their Lordships to return to the ancient re-
gular practice. The Commissioners would deserve well of this
House and of the country. if they were the means of correct-
ing the. present irregularities in the appellant jurisdiction of
the House, and rendering it palatable. As it now stood, its
exercise appeared a sort of juggle. One person hears and
another decides a cause; or rather the same person both hears
and decides, and the others attend merely for form.
The Earl of HAROWBY observed, that if the Noble Lord
thought the present state of the appellant jurisdiction unpa-
latable, his speech was not calculated to make it less so. The
sole object of the regulation was to enable the House to get
through the cases which were in arrear, after which the former
practice which the Noble Lord so much preferred would he
resumed. The advantages of the present course had, in the
mean time, been proved. In the short time which had elapsed
since the regulation was enforced, not less than nineteen cases
of appeal had been disposed of. With regard to the discredit,
however, which was so much insisted on as a necessary conse-
quence of this regulation, he was at a loss to understand how
it could arise. He apprehended, that it was not more notorious
that the House of Lords met in Westminster, than that when
appeals were heard, it was attended only by as many Peers as
were sufficient to make a House. The question was, whether
it was probable that there would be such a certainty of volun-
tary attendance on the part of Peers as not to expose the per-
sons who sent Counsel to the bar to an unnecessary expence.
It was, however, always at the option of any Noble Lords to
attend, and therefore the question as to the hearing of appeals
remained precisely on the same footing as before.
The Earl of I)ARNLEY expressed his approbation of that
part of the Noble Baron's (Lord ealthorpe's) speech which
related to the legislative functions of the House, and expressed
a hope that the Noble Earl opposite, or some other person,
would originate some measure, which, without infringing on
the privileges of the other House of Parliament, might serve
to correct the evil.
The motion, appointing the Members of the Committee to
inquire into the office of Clerk of Parliament was then
agreed to.

—The Marquis of LANSDOWN presented petitio"s from
Devizes, Calne, and Chippenham, praying for the abolition of
Negro slavery.

IRISFI LINEN.
The Earl of DARNLEY alluded to what the Earl of Liver-
pool had stated on a former day respecting the removing of the
duty from Irish linen. He thought it singular that the Noble
Earl should not have been better acquainted with the state of

that manufacture; but he believed the Noble Earl was now
aware that there was a considerable exportation of coarse linen
from Ireland. The effect of the Noble Earl's statement had
already been seriously felt, as orders for coarse linen to a consi-
derable extent had been countermanded. Ile intended to move
for some documents which would aftbrd information to the
House on the subject of this manufacture. The first was the
report of the Committee of the House of Commons, which sat
in 1822, on the linen trade of Ireland. In that report it was
stated that the evidence proved the continuance of the bounty
to be essential to the existence of that infant manufacture. He
would next move for a return of the weekly sale of linen in
Cork during the last three years ; and also for an account of the
number of convictions under the Insurrection Act during the
last three years. On a comparison of those accounts, he was .
assured that their Lordships would find that proportion as
the linen manufacture increased, the convictions decreased.—
This was a circumstance which he trusted would 'deter the
Noble Earl from extinguishing that manufacture, which was
so important to the peace and prosperity of the South of Ireland.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL would not object to the produc-
tion of any information which the Noble Earl might consider
necessary to throw light on the state of Ireland. lie had for-
merly explained, that when the Noble Earl first put a question
to him respecting the exportation of coarse linen from Ireland,
he was not aware that any had taken place, as no bounty. had
been demanded. As soon as he ascertained that the fact was
not as he had first supposed it to be, he felt that it was but
just that the same relaxation in withdrawing the bounty should
he observed as with respect to the fine linen. He was, how-
ever, far from admitting that it was advantageous to foster by
artificial means any manufacture. Instead, therefore, of wish-
ing to preserve this trade, he should think it far more advisable
to withdraw the bounty altogether—not suddenly indeed, but
gradually, and so as to produce as little shock as possible. No
man looked more anxiously than he did to the establishment of
manufactories in Ireland, but he wished that advantage to take
place through the investment of capital by natural means. The
getting rid of an artificial system was always difficult. In re-
moving the evil, it was necessary to avoid violence, and it
would be most impolitic to attempt to bolster up such a sytem.
The Earl of LIME RICK and the Marquis of Dowxsniux
deprecated any rash removal of the bounty from Irish linen.
The Marquis of LA NSDO WN observed that the reason why
little coarse linen appeared to be sent to foreign countries from
the south of Ireland was, that the greater part of it went in the
first instance to Scotland, in order to be afterwards exported to
South America. The vicious policy of bounties having unfor_
tuately been encouraged, could not be rashly withdrawn ; but
he hoped to see the day when no such thing as a bounty should
exist.

The motions of Lord DARNLEY were then agreed to.
The Austrian Loan Bill was committed, and the next stage
ordered for Thursday, when Lord HOLLAND intimated that he
would propose an amendment.—Adjourned.