The Sun.
London, England, 1812-12-19 00:00:00

COLD COIN BILL.

The Marquis .of LANSDOWN said, that he would
state a 3 shortly as possible, the motives which in-
duced him to doubt of the policy of persevering
in the Bill before the lionse. lie was not averse

to the whole of the bill, for be thought that there.
was at least one part of it which was rendered ne,
cessary by the policy which had hien adopted
prior to the passing of the bill. It ought in his
opinion, to be considered in two points of view ;
the first. was the protection it afforded against
landlords who may-be disposed to make a severe
use of their power. Against this part of •the bill
he was not now disposed to argue, hut he could not
admit the policy of the second part, which went
to compel people to circulate gold for less than its
value. He would now ask, what wet e the effects
of the bill? Did it induce- people to consider gold
and bank notes of equal value, when in reality
they were not. so ? or had it the effect, .as was ex-
pected, of retaining gold coin in the country ?
The very contrary vas the,fact, and the' same
consequence followed in every country where the
same measure was had recourse to. No law could
be sufficient to prevent the traffic in the circulat-
ing medium of a country, where the temptations
to that traffic were so great ; and the declaration
of Parliament, that gold and Bank notes were of
the same value, could have no more effect upon
the public mind than a decree said to have been

passed by Buonaparte at the con►nence►neut of
the war in the North, which stated, that nothing
was to be believed as authentic but what was con-

tained in his Bulletins. If'the object of retaining
the gold currency in the country was not obtained
by the Bill, he was at .a loss to know' what object
was gained by it. It did not facilitate the opera-
tions in the Peninsula, unless they could he said
to be facilitated by withdrawing from the public
cre litor a great part of the interest of his debt.
Such an object wcs not, and he believed could

not be avowed to any Government. Even the
Government '-itstlf were obliged, in their foreign
transactions, to act upon the principle Of two
prices, and he did not see any reason why the same
should not be done at home.. The Bill only pre-
vented the open manifestation of two prices, but
did
,not prevent them. It, however, circumstances
rendered it necessary to keep up a paper circula-
tion, he wished much that some means untold be
adopted, of preventing more effectually, the 'coun-
terfeiting of Bank paper ; and in the state to
which science was arrived, he had sufficient
son to believe that such means might be devised.
He could wish at least that the Bill were divided

into two parts, by which means, that part which
compelled people to circulate gold for less
than its value, may receive a separate con-
sideration.

Lord CLANCARTY said, that though the Noble
Marquis (Lansdowne) set out with a promise that
he should not enter into the question of deprecia-
tion, most of his arguments turned upon that
point. The principal object of his reaseningsecm-
ed to be the necessity of two prices: in the coun-
try ; but, in what he said, he never once separat-
ed the consideration of geld. and gold coin, which
were very different things. The Lill did not pre-
vent two, .or 20 prices for gold, it only prevent-
ed the circulation of gold coin at different prices.
He agreed with the Noble Marquis in his desire
of preventing, as far as it cOuld.be done, the pos-
sibilitv P!„,,,tp • . ;4: 1.1,.

Noble Marquis•bad any plan by which that object
could hilEffeaed, he was certain the Government
would' willingly adopt it.
The. Honie- then went into a Committee on the
Bill. •••

.lAnd-HOLIAND wished to know, what wak
the meaning of the word " current" in the
$ill? •
The Earl of LIVERPOOL said that it meant the
Current .value of gold coin, according to law,
The 1.-..esolutions were then agreed to without
any amendment, and the Bill was Ordeied to be
reported.—Adj ourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS,
FRIDAY, DEC. 18.

THE GENERAL ELECTION.
The SPEAKER stated to the House, that the Pe-
titioners against the return of the Members to
serve in Parliament for Bath had forfeited theirre-
eognizances, and had thereby become liable to the,
penalties imposed by law. Their Petition he, at
the same time, observed, was lost through this
omission.

The SrEAKklialso stated, that he had received
a letter from Mr. Bouverie, who had been return-
ed for Dorchester and Downton, aml made his
election to serve for the latter place ; and a simi-
lar letter from Sir C. Saxton, returned for Mal-
mesbury and the City of Cashel, and who
had made his election of Cashel. New writs-were
consequently ordered for Dorchester and Matmes-
bbry.
A new wilt was ordered for Bletchingley, in the
room of Sir. C. Talbot deceased.

Mr. C. CALVERT wished to present a Petition,
complai►►ing of an undue reurn for the Borough of
Southwark. Having read the Petition, and stated
that the reason of its not being presented with
in the time limited by Parliament, was, that ,
the Petitioners were not aware of the regula-
tions. ' ,
Ti►e SPEAKER informed the Honourable Gen=
tleman that the House had never departed from.
the rules laid dawn on this subject, and could not
admit of such mistake, or allow of any such igno-
rance as was now pretended. The petition, of
course, dropped.
A Person from the Stamp Office presented an
account of stamps issued for promissory notes',
&c. and a person from the Exchequer' Office pre-_ _
sented an account of the War. Taxes for the last
year; both which papers were laid an the table,
and ordered to be printed.
Lord OssuLst.Tox presented a Petition from the
Subscribers to a third Theatre to tha Metropolis
for leave .to bring in a Bill, authorising them to
erect such Theatre.

Mr. C. JOHNSTON moved for numerous ac-
counts relative to allowances and remunerations
to Army Agents for managing the affairs of Regi-
ments, the statt, Artillery, Engineers, &c. all of
which were ordered, after a remark from Mr. C.
Long, that a considerable time must elapse be-
fore it would be possible to make up some of the
returns.

A Message from the Lords signi!ied that their
Lordships passed the St. Domingo Inter-
course Bill without any Amendment.

OATH OF TILE PRIVY Mail,.
Mr. WIITTEREAD moved that an Afilres slibuid
be presented to the Prince Regent, priving that
his Royal Highness would be pleased to order to
be laid before the House information, if the
Keeper of the King's Privy Purse had taken- the
oath prescribed by the 51st of the King, sec-
tion 28.

The CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUiER had no
disinclination to the object of the motion, but
was extremely at a.loss to know how it could be
complied with in its present form. It the lion.
Gentleman wished to bring forward any charge,
he had better withdraw his motion till irconld be
properly ascertained whether or not the Act had - -
been attended to. The charges oa the ..I)..,ivy
Purse were heavier than its means.

Mr. WHITBREAD said he had no charges to ~,' 1
bring forward, aO4l his ruction was only intended ' •
to ascertain if the Privy Purse had taken the oath - •
prescribed, as a guard against his using the money • '
entrusted to him, in corrupting that House. He
did not suspect that such had been the case ; but
if they made enactments, it became them to see
that their provisions were observed, and not ..
slighted through inadvertency, which was all he
supposed in the present instance. He was sorry
to hear the charges on the King's Privy Purse
were more than its resources, as the difference
would probably come hereafter for them •to
make up.
Lord CASTLBREAGII said it Was not usual, to ad- '
dress the Crown for any information not con-
nected with the
,Executive Government ; and the .
only objection to the Hon. Gentleman's motion
was, that it called on the Prince Regent to search r•
for information in the Courts of Law, in order ;.••
to lay -it before the House. It would be much g;
more eligible to apply to the proper Officers of the 4
. ~„
Court of Exchequer.
Mr. WHITBREAD assented to •this proposition, ''•
and having worded his motion accordingly, it was i
agreed to.
THE TAX ON LEATHER.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
the Order of the Day for the House resolving in-
to a Committee of Supply.
On the question that the Speaker do leave the •
Chair,
Mr. BENNETT referred to the Petitions on the
table againt the Leather Tax imposed last Session;
and previous to calling the attention of the
House to that subject, he wished to hear from
the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
if it. was intention to pay any regard to these ap-
plications. He was proceeding to offer some fur-
ther observations, . when

The SPEAKER rtminded him that it was desirable,
to ahtain from all arguments on giving notices,
as if that were permitted, it would leact to the'in-
troduction of numerous premature and unneces-
sary discussions.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in reply
to the question put by the Hon. Gentleman,
begged leive to say, that after the most mature
investigation into, and deliberation upon the sub=
ject of the Leather Tax, he had no intention sub-
s. • - ..1

Modify that measure, for 'which. be could see no
reason. . •
Mr. BENNETT then gave notice, that'be would
take an-early oportunity of bringing this matter
before the House.
GRANT TO THE SUFFERING RUSSIANS•

.• • The House having resolved into the Committee,
1...,' Xr.LuShington in the Chair, read the Prince Re-
I gent's Message, as delivered last night.
1. The CHANCELLOR of- the EXCHEQUER said, had
L it not been for the observations made on the Mes-
sage when'it came down to the• House, and the dis ..
:position to oppose its intention then manifested,
•,, .he would have presented the proposition he had
• 'now to offer to the sense of The House of Cotia-
Thons, without uttering one word in its behalf.—
, He hoped that reflection on the matter since, [tad
e2on co ered the objections which then occurred to
, -Honourable Members, and s'vould therefore be
'very short in the preface to his motion, and at the
the same time carefully avoid the introduction of
any topics that might lead to a difference of opi-
-Mon, where unanimity was so desirable. As a
Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Ponsonby)
.., had spoken of the measure last night as one with
Which he was previously unacquainted, it might
he expedient to state to,. hint . and to the House
Why it was so long delayed, and why brought for-
ward at that precise time. The question arose out
of Unforeseen events, and could not therefore by
, • possibility be anticipated ; it was formed on the
recent most gratifying intelligence from Russia;—
,'„ gratifying, yet melancholy in its nature. So long
as the French were in existence on the Russian
territories, no aid of this kind could have been ad-
rainistered, because the presence of the enemy
Would have rendered it nugatory and ineffectual,
and it was not till very lately that the cheering
information was received of their having been
driven from the old empife of Russia. This state-
Merit would, he trusted, account for the delay
that bad taken place in moving a grant of the
kihd he had now 'to propose; and since these
grounds for pausing had ceased, no further post-
ponement could be permitted without injury to
the cause this vote-was intended_to promote, • and
the gain likely to result from a speedy attention to
the situation of the people of our ally. Of this
he was convinced, that if Parliament did not lead
on this occasion, they must be contented to fol-
low, for the feeling of the people of this country
was bursting out in private exertions to relieve
those sufferings, which every man must commise-
, rate, and be eesirotis of alleviating. But it be-
came Parliament to give the tone to, and not to
be led by the public. The intelligence to which
be bad alluded, as rendering this measure more
expedient, was that of a subscription having liken
entered into at Petersburgh, at the head -of which
stood the Royal Family, for the relief of 'those
Who had endured the greatest hardships from the
invasion of enemy. •Till this step was taken,
there were no practicable means of administering
the comforts which this great country must wish
to administer, and which now became easy of ap-
plication, through, the medium of the committees
established for the same purpose at St. Peters-
burgh. In what manner the- relief should be ap-
plied, he was not at this moment prepared to state,
. as it might be desirable to have further commu-
nication with our Ambassador at Petersburgh, to
ascertain the mode that would be most eligible,
useful, and efficacious. Till that period the suns
would be properly vested for the intended object.
With regard to the. amount of the sum, he was
. aware that it could not be commensurate with the
extended misers,- to the alleviation of which it was
intended to be directed. On the other hand, it
would not become the liberality. of this country to
offer our allies, suffering in our cause, as well as
in their own, a penurious grant ; suffering in our
cause, as well as their own, he repeated : for the
contest in which Russia was engaged was not one
merely of usefulness In the common cause, but of
peculiar deserving towards Great Britain, to the
manufactures and commerce of which it ()Geed a
brighter dawn and more extensive advantages
than had for several years opened in •Europe.—
Every day and every hour brought intelligence
which imparted new energies to our trade ; and
the' loss of the American market was now likely
to be compensated by 'the opening of a greater
utarket on the Confluent. The sum he had to
propose was 200,000/. ; a larger amount than had
ever before been voted by Parliament for a simi-
hr purpose, but which ought to be larger because
the suffering was more extensive, and the self-de-
Notion and heroism which had marked the con-
duct of those for whom it was designed, unexam-
pled in the annals of the world. Thousands, he
feared he might say, hundreds of thousands, of
these gallant people were houseless, living in the
woods, under all the rigours of a Russian winter,
rather than submit to the domination of a foreign
invader. It was to relieVe this great and compli-
cated misery that he called upon the British House
of Commons to step forward—to relieve it en-
tirely was jacked beyond ,human means ; but
still it was a consolation to the afflicted to know
that some hearts sympathised in their woe,
and were . ready to administer to their wants.—
From the habitS . of life of the•,Russian peo
pie, too, this grant would go to a greater'
ength, and do more service than might at first
be apprehended. But even were it not SO,•
1 the disposition to assist them alone, would- from
this country, carry satisfaction to every heart in
:Russia, and tend to bind closer together those re-
lations between the countries, which interest as
well as nature pointed out to be advantageous to
both. This gratitude would more than equal
our liberality, and on these grounds, without
trespassing further upon the House, leaving the
matter rather to their feelings and judgment, than
endeavouring to persuade to the act ; he begged
leave to conclude, • by moving, that it is the opi-
nion of the Committee, with a view to afford re-,
lief to such parts of the Russian Empire, as have
suffered most from the invasion of the enemy, that
the sum of 200,0001. be granted to his Royal
Highness. the Prince Regent. •
Mr. PONSONBY declared his intention to- vote
for the sum, but not for the reasons stated by the
Right Hon. Gentleman, nor because the Message
was couched in terms likely to invite the House to
that usani.mity of sentiment-he uppeared to think
,ttlesirable. The Message- called, upon them to af.
f) ford the sufferiror subjects .of Russia " speedy and
. • effectual relief." Speedy, it was now evident it

could not be, as the Right Hon. Gentleman hart
informed them that before it could be applied, GO7
vernmentijnnst have further communications with
the Ambassador at Petersburgh. It Was therefore
-likely to reach those for whom. it was intended,
just at the close of that severe winter to which
therwere exposed without habitations, and after
the period had expired, when it would be most bene-
ficial. Effectual it could not be, for that was out of
our power. We bad not the means, if we were dis-
posed to be as charitable as some, or as.extravagant
as others might think requisite. We were not rich
enough to rebuild Moscow, and replace the peo-
ple of Russia-in their former state ; and to ima-
gine we could give effectual aid, was a visionary
project. He came to the vote therefore on other
grounds, for he did not believe that a single pound
thus granted by Parliament, would go to the re-
lief of a single Russian. peasant. He voted for
the sum, as a gift to the Emperor of Russia, un-
der the present circumstances of Europe, and be-
cause,- if refused, it would look like a coldness
and backwardness on the part of Britain to assist
her Ally, and an insensibility to her sufferings', in
this great and momentous struggle. llut he did
not like the form of this begging Message ; it
looked like a hypocritical and canting appeal to
charity, when other reasons might have been as-
signed for the gift. He took leave tb say,. that
his feelings for the suffering. people of England
and Russia were as acute and sincere as those of
any Hon. Gentleman st'ho heard him, and if the
question stood on the ground of taking 200,0001.
froth the suffering people of .England to give to
the suffering people of Russia, he would nega-
tive the proposal. Time privations of the former
had, in some measure, been brought on by cir-
cumstances out of the power of any Government
to controul, but sonic of their hardships had also
been induced by the conduet of the Government.
Who could look back for a few years, and not
see that a conciliatory disposition towards Ame-,
rica, manifested in a timely and friendly manner,
might have averted the war with that country in
which we are no engaged ? on the subject
of Spain, a Noble Load (Castlereagh) had stated,
on a former night, that Russia desired all our force
to be employed on the Peninsula, as the best mode
of aiding her (Russia), and effecting a diversion
in .her favour ; and further, that the Government
had accordingly applied the whole force of this
country in that quarter. Yet they now saw, that
without any any difficulty it was proposed to send
200,0001. to Russia herself, an'd not to the Penin-
sula. There was another subjectintimately connect-
ed with this, which he must'advert to. lie alluded
to relief being afforded to the dist' esses of the ma-
nufacturers of England, which he believed Gentle-
men on all sides of the House were equally desirous
to impart. He must, however, say, that an event
had taken place some months back ,which- must
affect the feelings of all, and particularly of
those in distress. He would be glad to kuow what
dispoSition bad been shewn by the Government to
supply means for their generosity, by the aboli-
tion of unnecessary offices ? What bad become of
the Sinecure Place Bill, brought for Ward by the
lion. Gentleman on the floor? (Mr. Bankes).—
The curtailment of this source of expense would
have more than answered the present demand on
their liberality. (Hoe it was said across the table,
" the Bill passed in this House.") lie knew this ;
but if there had been a favourable disposition on
the part of the Government elsewhere, it would
have been altogether successful. The state •of
the country and of the finances demanded this ;
but at the same time he was aware, if they nega-
tived the present vote, it would do infinitely
more harm to the country than it would do
good to retain the 200,0001. Russia had this
great and peculiar merit 'with ns, that she not
only fought for herself,' but that she was drawn
into the• contest, because she would not be-
come a party to the Continental system which
was directed exclusively against England.—.
(Hear, hear !)—lf she succeeded. and opened
the market of Europe for us, she would soon re-
pay us manifold the grant now proposed to ame-
liorate the sufferings of her Empire. But above
all, her great merit and cause of success, was In
being engaged in an unhought and unpurchased
War ; we had not bought her into it. Peace and
war were offered to her on certain terms of acces-
sion to' a systein, and she had chosen of herself
to resist the terms of France without any engage-
ment, express or implied, on our part, to furnish
money or contributions. It was a spontaneous
act—she had nobly done her duty, and we would
be committing an injury on the common cause,
were we to skew any backwardness• upon the
present occasion. For these reasons, he gave
the Motion his support, and when- they were re-
flected on, they would slim that at least one
Member of that House bad consented to vote so
much of the people's money, not from want of
feeling for the sufferings at home, but because he
thought it would be the means of alleviating their
distresses.

Mr. 11.scrnItsT observed, that the Hon: Gen-
tleman (Mr. Ponsonby) was not happy in the topics
which he had urged as being the motives for the
grant in question. His first objection had con-
sisted in a mere cavil upon the words speedy and
effectual. Now he apprehended that what the
lion. Gentleman had said, as to its being-impos-
sible that the relief could be speedy, was by no
means just. It certainly did depend much upon
tile manner in which the sum granted would be
applied, vahether the relief which it should afford
would be speedy or not. But if Ministers did ap-
ply the grant in specie, as he supposed they would,
then it must be a speedy relief to the distressed
Russians. The Hon. Gentlennin, however, did
not properly attend to the wording of the Mes-
sage. It did ilk say that the supply would be
speedy and effectual ; but that it ought to be
speedy and effectual. In order to render it effec-
tual, nothing, certainly, was wanting but the
concurrence of the Russian Government, and
of this there was no doubt to be enter-
tained for one moment. • The Honourable
Gentleman had said that he did not suppose
that one farthing of the sum granted would he be-
stowed on the peasantry of Russia, but that it
would • all be put into the treasury of the Empe-
ror'. If snch really was the opinion of the Hon.
Gentleman, he must also have thought that all
the'suttis contributed by the nobility arid inhabi-
taats of St. Petersbureit, instead of being aunlied

to alleviate the diStl•eSs of the peasantry,- wotdd
also uc placed in the coffers of the .6mpire. The
-Hon. Gentle;man had said he should vote for the
grant, as a gift to the Emperor, for that was the
object of .the Message; as he would have had the
House believe. If the object was really and bona
fide, a gift to the Emperor,' what would become
of the rest of the Hon. Gentleman's argument
How would it apply to the Peninsular war The
negative which had been given to the lion. Gen •
tlemariwas not from a mis-statement about the war
in Spain, but to contradict his insinuation, that
the sum which it was proposed to grant was in-
tended as a gift to the Emperor. The question
was not one about the support of the war, but
one which had for its object the relief of
the .peasantry of Russia, who bad endured
such extraordinary privations, and had been
exposed to unprecedented hardships in be-
half of what should be considered as the common
cause of Eur Ope. Neither were there wanting in
the records of the House precedents for such a
measure as the one in question. At the time .of
the earthquake of Lisbon, a similar step had been
taken to the one now in agitation. He did not
wish to mix with the present question any thing
regarding-the behaviour of Ministers in the mat-
-ter of the American war. It was sufficient for
him to say, that as - far as his knowledge went,
Ministers had done every thing in their power to-
wards the cultivation of amity between-this coun-
try and the American States. The last topic urged
by the lion. Gentleman ,was, that Ministers had
made no 'retrenchments in sinecure places, and
therefore they had no right
.to make the applica-
tion then under-discussion. The lion. Gentle-
man, when he 'urged this, forgot what had been
said in the House during a former session,
when a bill for the suppression of sinecure places
was proposed. On that occasion the proposer of
the Bill said, that he pushed the measure for the
pnrpose of producing . the effect on the public
mind ; for that he was sensible, that although
the bill should pass, that it could not be the means
ialsaving one farthing of the public money. The
Right Hon. Gentleman then concladed his speech
by repeating his approbation of the measure then
under consideration.

Mr. PONsoNBY said it was true, as the Right
Hon. Gentleman who spoke baw! Lim had stated,
that he (Mr. Ponsonby) had expressed his belief
that the sum, if granted, would not go to the Ibis-
sian peasantry. He. had said so, and he repeated
it, for it really was his opinion. The Right Hon.
Gentleman. shoultilitiVe considered that it was the
duty of the,Rusgian Government to relieve the dis-
tress of the subjects of the Empire. Of course,
if the sum which might be voted by the House
was granted as a gift to the Russian Government,
that Government would be the better enabLd to
succour the distressed peasantry, who had suffered
from the ravages of the _French invasion. If the
sinecure places had been curtailed, there was no
doubt that a sum might have been saved annually,
which would be sufficient to discharge the interest
'of the .sum which the House was then about to
grant. • _ .

Mr. WHITBREAD said, that when first the clues-
don then under discussion was (to his great sur-
prise) proposed, .he opposed it, as a, measure high-
ly imploper. He had afterwards discussed the.
waiter • privately with sonic of his friends, when
he found, that their sentiments were in- opposition
to his own ; yet he still found himself called upon
to oppose it, as a measure prejudicial to the dearest
interests of the country. In the first place,• it
was ineffectual for the accomplishment of the ob-
ject which it professed to have in. view. In the
next place, it was an act' of cruel injustice to the
inhabitants of Great Britain. Under :these cir-
cumstances, it would ba hypocritical in him to
give his assent to a measure, while he was con-
scious of impropriety.—Could he agree to the
granting of such a sum, while the wants of British
subjecis were crying out for relief ? If the House
would consider the. extent of the country. deso-
lated, and the dreadful distresses of the inhabi,
tants of that tract of country, they would be con-
vinced how: inefficacious any attempt must be,
which they chnldinake, to relieve those distresses.
They had been called upon to alleviate the mi-
series of those unfortunate Russians who had been
obliged to take shelter in the woods during the
rigour of a northern winter. But it should be
considered that these unfortunates were now be-.
yond the reach of all earthly aid ; and their suf-
fering had long ago terminated with their lives.
Could any man—any Statesman—any Politician,
for one moment suppose that the grant of such
a paltry stun as 2Q0,000/. could be the means of
endearing the two countries to one another, or be
the meaus of cementing a lasting alliance between
them ? He concurred with the Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Pousonby) in thinking that it was the duty
of the Russian. Government to alleviate the dis-
tresses of the peasantry. They were distresses un •
paralleled in modern history, and such as, he be-
lieved had never before been produced by any Go-
vernment in defence of a country. lie alluded to
the conflagration of Moscow. y It ought, how-
ever, to be considered, that the Emperor, by con-
tributing to relieve the distresses of his subjects,
curtailed his means for carrying on the war: The
sum which it was now proposed to grant, could
only be considered as a subsidy : as a subsidy it
was mean, paitry, insignificant—as a sum to be
granted by this country, in its present situation, it
was extravagant and enormous. The war was
now; as -had been truly said' by a Right Hon.
Gentleman, transferred beyond the bounds of
Russia Proper. But the inhabitants-of the coun-
try into which the war was transferred, would be
exposed to hardships as great as those endured by •
the inhabitants of the country which was the first
scat of the war. Ile could not, therefore, see any
reason why they ought not to be as much entitled
to commiseration and aid as the inhabitants of
Russia Proper. He believed that the imptession
on the minds of the British merchants was, that
the effect of the successes of the Russians would
be to keep the ports of that Empire open to Great
Britainfor a length of time. Other great effects
might result from the resistance of the Russians ;
but nobody could know what the ultiMate coupe-
quenee would be. It behoved the House to reflect,
that there existed cases of the most trying.neces-
sity within the seas that flow round these happy
Isles. He hoped that a little reflection - would
convince doe House, that it behoved them to be

just to the distresses of their own countrvmen,
before they were generous to the inhabitants of
other countries. He concluded by expressing his
'disapprobation of the measure proposed, and de-
clared that it was one to-which he could never
consent.

Lord CASTLEREAGH dissented most strongly
from the reasons which the Hon Gentleman who
had spoken last, had assigned for withholding his
assent from the measure then under consideration.
It was not the first instance in which the libera-
lity of Parliament had been called forth ; and it
was well known how beneficial the yesOlts' of such
liberality had been on every form occasion.
The case, however, which had been cited as a•
precedent by a Right lion. Gentleman, was not
exactly in . point—he meant the earthquake at
Lisbon ; but he would call the attention of this
House to a precedent, which he doubted not
would serve to convince the House of the bene-
ficial effects of such w4l-timed liberality. The
House would, he stas sure, concur with him in
rejoicing at the result which hied ensued 11'0111 the
application of the sum voted for the relief of the
Portuguese, who had suffered trorn the barbarity
of the French. He had many opportunities in his
official capacity of knowing how much the affec-
tions of the Portuguese bad been . gained, and
how grateful they felt for the relief afforded them
by the, British Nation. As to the speed with
'which relief could be at to the Russian pea-
santry,-that would depend on contingencies. But
if the sum granted by the House should not ar-
rive in time to alleviate the horrors of a rigorous
winter, it certainly'would be in time to enable
the peasantry to renew their industrious labours,
with the return of a mild spring.
was, whether the effects which have resulted from
the calamities and distresses endured by the Rus-
sians, have not produced benefits of an importance
to this country much greater in- Vahle than this
sum which it was' proposed to grant for their relief
For his own part, his answer should be decidedly
in the affirmative. And he was sure that there
were very few persons within the walls of that
House, who would answer the question 'by a ne-
gative. It was not a case which was likely to
occur again to such -a 'degree. It would indeed
have been most hypocritical if the sum were ten-
dered under the name of a subsidy. It was -a
suns granted for the same purpose, and to be paid'
along with the subscriptions of the Russian
Nobility. Nothing could be of more, importance
in a political point of view, than the granting of
this sum. It would convince the nations of. Eu-
rope, that the war of Buonaparte was one which
was repugnant to the feelings of humanity,' which
existed in the whole mass of the population of
those countries against whit h this war was waged.
The privations undergone by the Russians,
and seeing relief (from plinciples of humanity)
afforded for alleviation of their sufferings by ano-
ther country ; these were considerations whiclt,
could by no means fail to rouse a proper feeling
in the Governments of other nations. The effect
of the sum sent to the relief of the Portuguese had
been to raise lines in the hearts of the people,
beyond the lines of Torres \'edras, the benefits of
which would be found, if ever circumstances hould
require, our army to enter into that kingdom.
This measure would tend, more than any t,t:ier,
to accelerate that pe;iod to which-thq alt looked
forward; when peace should be -established on
honourable grounds, and independent of • the will
of the Ruler of France. The vote now proposed,
he was persuaded, was founded upon every prig-
ciple of political economy ; but however a Right
Honourable Gentlemen might differ with him in
opinion,
,he could not help expressing his appro-
bation of the manly and independent manner in
which that difference of opinion had been declared.
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT lose, to state the rea-
sons why he could not approve of the measure
under consideration. The Noble Lord had cer-
tainly taken that proper view of the subject
which a Statesman should have taken. I-he was
delighted to hear the Noble Lord talk of peace. It
was a long time since he bad heard the word tit-
tered by any person on the ministerial benches.
On this account he felt more inclined to give his
support to a Government that had this great end
in view, than he had ever done since he had a
seat in that House. He could not big recollect,
that Russia was lately in an alliance of a.very dif-7
ferent description from the one in which she was
at present; although he hoped that a sense of
interest would prevent her from changing her
present measures, and that in the end peace might
be obtained. On this account he approved of the
conduct of the Noble Lord. But when the dis-
tresses of the British nation Were so great, he
could not find himself justified in sanctioning the
grant of any subsidy for the people of other states.
There was no prospect of ally economy in the ex-
penditure of the public money,. which authorised the
Hoarse to grant such a sum for the purpose pro-
posed. lie was glad that on that night the House
had .not been obliged to listen to any of the bom-
bast about the burning of Moscow. lie was no
admirer of that act; neither did he think that the
Russian Government admired it ; nor could it be
Proved that it was an act of the Government.
rince Kntusoff, in his dispatches: after what he
called his victory, said he had been obliged to
change his movements in order to save Moscow
from flames. It was much the fashion in this
country to panegyrise any act which tented to
thwart 'the French. But for his own part, be
could not find that that act was panegyrised in
Russia, nor even approved. This country was
always called upon to shew its liberality on occa-
sions of this kind ; but though we may boast of
our generosity on such occasions, we should find
that our example never would be followed by any
other -nation. The Hon. baronet then went on
to make some vague observations on the policy of
this country spending sums in supporting emigrant
loyalists from foreign countries, while these sums
might be more beneficially employed in augment-
ing the salaries
,of many of the officers employed
by Government. He concluded by giving his ile-
gative to the question before the House.

_ . .
- Mr. WILBERFORCE observed, that some persons
bad said that the sum to be granted would not be
any sensible relief to the suffering Russians. To
this he could by no means assent. Ile thought it
would affoyda very great and material relief to the
miseries of the Russian peasantry.7—(Hear, hear.)
It had been conceived that the sum was by n