The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-09 00:00:00

IRISH PAUPERS.
_ _

Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from the
Lord Provost, magistrates, and town-council of Glasgow,
complaining of the influx of Irish paupers into Glasgow,
and praying for an efficient poor-law for Ireland. He
also had a statement in his hand from the magis-
trates of Liverpool, from which it arpeared
that, on Wednesday last, 1,778 paupers arrived
in Liverpool ; on Thursday, 1,081; and on Friday,
2,o36—making, on an average, for the three days,
between 1,600 and 1,700 persons. The consequence of
this state of things was that typhus fever and disease
was rapidly spreading through that town. He also had
a statement from several persons in Ireland, complaining
of the very great misery to which the people were
reduced, and the. inadopicato acs;otanoo. they received
from those from whom they ought to have received it.
The non-resident landed proprietors of one parish that
gave them a rental of 25,5874 just contributed the sum
of 2081. for the relief of the distress. In a parish near
Cork three-fourths of the inhabitants were paupers, all
the landlords were non-resident, and not a farthing of
relief had the relief committee of the parish been able to
get from them. The wealthy barristers in Dublin, who
receive 5001. a year did not even answer the application,
though seine of his own tenantry were on the public
works. A high dignitary of the Church, in the receipt
of 45(1. a year, contributed the munificent sum of 11.—
(Laughter.) And the secretary of the committee wrote
to him again, stating he must have made a mistake, but
was informed in reply that it was no such thing—
that he had made no mistake, and would give no
more.—(Laughter.) He had a statement also from
Ballina, respecting which place ho made some
remark, a few evenings ago, and was then told by a
Noble Earl, who he regretted to see was not in his
place, that the ejectments to which he then referred
were only suits for rent, and not summary proceedings.
He found, however, that at the last quarter-sessions in
Tyrawley, on the 11th January, there were from
1,500 to 2,000 ejectment processes entered, at the
suit of sixteen or eighteen landlords, for rent due
at November last, and for the over-due rent of 1846
The Noble Lord further read several extracts from
documents which he had received ; one from the parish
priest of Tyrawley and Ballina described the injurious
effect which processes brought for non-payment
of rent had upon the population. It stated that
out of a parish of one thousand persons,
in September last, the writer did not expect to have 200
remaining in August next. He also read several letters
describing the jobbing which had been carried on in the
appointment of officers in the Board of Works.
LordjDEVON said, that as scrutineers were required,
it was therefore necessary to appoint responsible

persoi,s.
Lord BROUGHAM said that he perfectly agreed in
the justice of the observation. The statements which
he read were more showy than satisfactory, but they
were useful; for if they did not look most carefully to
the expenditure of the public money, this demand for
it would never cease.
The Earl of /110U..TTCASHEL objected :to the
' course pursued by the Noble Lord, in reading state •
ments to the House, yet refusing to give the au-
thorities substantiating them. He did so the more
especially as they contained such serious charges.
If such an occurrence bad taken place recently, there
would have been full inquiry. If it had occurred twenty
years ago, it might have been suppressed, but if it had
occurred recently it would have been published
far and near. The county of Cork was one of
the most peaceable and well-conducted counties
in Ireland. If, then, the ejection of a large body
of people should have made so great a noise, how
was it that the ejection of a larger number was
passed off so silently? He could say, from his own know-
ledge, that the gentry there had not spared themselves,
and though he regretted to find so small a subscription,
yet he was not at all surprised at it. He ascribed it to
the circumstance that the landlords were sorely pressed
by their creditors. He knew that they were in great
difficulty; and, though he lamented the smallness of this
subscription, he thought the circumstance was sufficiently
explained by the fact which he had just stated.
Lord BROUGHAM felt it hard that ho should be
complained of because he had, in the first instance, refused
the names of the parties of whom he spoke, and still more
that he should have been now complained of that he did
give those names. He would now read the name of the
gentleman who bad furnished him with the information
which ho had used. That was Edward Howe
Vernon, of the Sligo Champion, and he thought
there was ample reason to speak of the
paucity of the assistance which had been
rendered by the Irish landlords when he found in
one district a contribution of only 2001. from proprietors
of estates which yielded an income of 28,500/. a year.
He still withheld, and as he thought advisably, the
names of the clergymen with whom he had been in
communication.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY conceived that it
was not right thus to run down the Irish landlords,
for they had under the difficult circumstances- in which
they were placed done all that they could. In the
County Down there was considerable distress, and he
knew that, what from marriage settlements, mortgages,
and the various obligations to which property was
liable, but little came to the hands of the landlord. In
the town of Down—not in the district—there was ex-
cessive distress, and he had been the first to head a
subscription for the establishment of a soup kitchen,
but the clergy had rather discountenanced the
project, from the belief that it would draw the
poor from other districts, and so increase the distress,
If the Noble Lord ( B rou (Brougham)
o inquire
h a In)d i d
intoright hheolsvh
tohuel d
Irishpr o-
pose a Select Committee
landlords had:behaved in the present state of that country.
Such a course would be much more proper than
to indulge in these indiscriminate tirades, the materials
of which were furnished to him by interested and evil-
disposed persons,who were quite regardless of truth in the
statements they made, and were influenced by the most
improper feelings towards those who were involved in
these statements.
After a few words in explanation from Lord BROUGHAM
and the Marquis of LONDONDERRY,
The subject dropped.
THE CRIMINAL LAW.

Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from the Corpora-
tion of Kingston-on-Hull, confirming the complaints made in
the petition lately presented from the magistrates of Liverpool
on the subject of the amendment of the criminal law. The six
cases which the petitioners cited were exactly similar to the
fourteen cases enumerated in the Liverpool petition, each of
whom had been committed nine times before sentence of trans-
portation was passed upon them. He would new, in accord-
ance with the notice he had given, move for a Select Com-
mittee to examine into the subject of the execution of criminal
law, and particularly with respect to its operation on juvenile
offenders. He was sure the result would be favourable to the
views he already expressed on the subject, and the recom-
mendation of the Committee would be that transportation, if
not altogether suspended, should be considerably modified.
Lord STANLEY said that upon this subject—that of cri-
minal punishment—he hoped to hear an explanation as to what
was the intention of the Government respecting transportation.
He understood that it was ti eir desire to suspend the punish-
ment of transportation for two years without applying to Par-
liament for its sanction for such a proceeding. With regard to
transportation as a punishment, he entertained an opinion more
favourable than his Noble Friend. But to suspend it for two
years seemed to him to be an experiment of such a magnitude
as should not be attempted without applying to Parliament ;
and; in his opinion, it would be a serious abuse of the preroga-
tive of the Crown. He hoped the Government would intro-
duce a Bill, and thus afford an opportunity to both Houses to
discuss the measure.

Earl GREY said that since the year 1843 no convict sen-
tenced to transportation for seven years had the sentence car-
ried into effect, the criminal was confined to the hulks, or sent
to Bermuda. Although he considered transportation as a bad
punishment, yet he was aware that it had its attendant advan-
tage. The Noble Lord had mistaken the intention of the Go-
vernment. Transportation would not be abolished,it would
continue to be the same precisely as it was at present, with
but one difference, namely the place, where one part of the
sentence should be endured. The penal labour would be in-
flicted in this country under the immediate observa-
tion of the Government, where they would control
and check the abuses which took place, but the convict
would be discharged in Australia, under the same control as he
was placed by the present system. Therefore he ventured to
say, that the change was not so substantial as to make it neces-
sary for them to apply to Parliament. The more especially as
it was perfectly competent for her Majesty's Government to
make it without any Act of Parliament upon the subject.
Lord BROUGHAM protested against the law as laid down
by his Noble Friend. He denied the power of the Crown. He
would suppose an Act of Parliament requiring a punishment of
one hnndred and twenty-one years' transportation, now he de-
sired to know was it competent to imprison him for one hun-
dred and twenty years, and transport him for the remaining
portion of the time. The principle was the same as ap-
plied to any period of time. He admitted that an
Act was passed, some fifteen years, which gave a
power to the executive in a certain class of cases. The Act
he referred to was the sth George IV. chapter 63. No man
could doubt the power of the Crown to pardon capital offences.
But if it be legal for the Crown to overset every punishment,
theinhabitants of Bridport, who intrusted him with the pre-
sentatinn of a petition praying for the abolition of the punish-
ment of death, had mistaken their way, they should have ap-
plied at once to the executive.
Lord CAMPBELL said that, as at present advised, he con-
sidered that all that his Noble Friend proposed to do might be
effected without any Act of Parliament. The general rule
which had been adopted was, in every case of transportation
for a period of seven years, the Government did not carry i.
into effect. Now no one ever objected to such a practice, and
he considered that the rule applied to fourteen, or fifteen, or
twenty years. It was most desirable that the House should