The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-01 00:00:00

TH.E SUN. LONDON. SATURDAY. MAY 1. 1841.

the general interest of this country and for the whole commercial
system.—( Hear.) They thought tat it would be at once unjust
and impossible to do so without attempting to grapple with the
difficulties whatever they might be of what was the greatest of
all the commercial questions of the country. And indeed he
would be ashamed of the position in which the Government
soot: before the House and the country, if, while they were
commercial interests to A.:_ commend a change in the manufacturing and
color class, though it was Li their
I•reparing
7hich should bring suffering on a parti-
said, if they shrunk from this question ms:re
general interest of the community; wet
wouldl be ashamed,th he
opinion desirable for the
prehended that any alteration in that • ,
y because they elrhas.(i
r, inas-
encounter more opposition than any otti, be
much as the most powerful parties might
supposed to have an interest in the continuance of the Corn-
laws. That was a course of conduct which, if Government
yursced, they would be justly liable to the reproaches of that
House arid the country. Something had been said of his Hon.
Friend having made the Corn-laws a budget-question. He
(Mr. Labouchere) did not think that his Right Hon. Friend
did. What he said was, that conceiving it was convenient, he
was prepared to recommend further alterations in the same di-
rection, and thinking it right to consider the question of the
Corn-laws at the same time, and anticipating from the pro-
pwal which Government would make, he would not ask
the House to impose taxes to produce money which he antici-
pated could be procured by other sources. That w s tin
manner in which his Right Honourable Friend hal
ntraduced the subject. He introduced it incidentally, and it
was thus it became involved in the question of the Budget. He
(Mr. L.) had said that it was desirable they should carry into
effect other questions not particularly adve.ted to. He did
not say that that ought to be done in a hurried and precipitate
manner ; on the contrary, he was convinced of the complicated
nature of those questionF. Care and caution should be
brought to the consideratien of them ; but as it was allowed
that they were come to a great crisis, not only commercial, but
manufacturing, the course pursued would prove that the
House was disposed to go in the right direction ; although
at the same time, considering each particular subject,
as brought forward on particular occasions with all the de-
liberation it required. With respect to the impart duties he
had some opportunity of judging of what were the feelings of
the country on that subject, and he never remembered observ-
ing feelings more intense, but at the same time less clamorous.
The agitation on the subject had not proceeded from the delu-
sive and inflamed statements of public orators.—( Cheers and
counter cheers.) Whatever the petitions and the meetings
and the excitement in the country might be which the subject
had called into existence, he begged to say that they had not
taken a party colour in any manner. All party „teeling had
been merged—Tory, Whig, and Radical had joined-together
in what they deemed their common interest, and in which the
very existence of their commercial men was involved. Were
they to suppose that the manufacturers and merchants of
England were such ignorant men as that a Committee of the
House of Commons would give them desires which they did
not possess before ? Some of the statements which had been
made on the subject might be exaggerated, but were they to
suppose that the merchants and manufacturers of England
were not able to judge of the accuracy or the reverse of those
statements ? To suppose so would be most absurd. There
had been a petition presented to the House on the subject by
the Hon. Member tor the City of London the other night, on
which occasion that Hon. Gentleman referred to the respect-
ability of the names attached to it. He (Mr. Labouchere), as
the petition was a short one, would, if the House would permit
him, read 'its contents. The Right Honourable Gentle-
man here proceeded to read the petition, the substance of
which was that the Corn-laws, without producing any benefit
to the country at large, laid on very heavy taxes. When, con-
tinued the Right Hon. Gentleman, they looked at the signa-
tures attached to the petition, they would perceive how great
and influential were the persons who were interested in the
subject. Never, since the petition that was presented to the
House of Commons by Lord Ashburton, was there one which
had come to that House with the signatures of so many intelli-
gent and respectable persons ; and as a proof that no party feel-
ing operated with the persons interested in the subject, the first
name attached to the petition was that of a gentleman of poli-
tics very different from gentlemen on that side of the House—
Mr. Horsley Palmer. lie believed there never was a time when
the merchants and manufacturers of this country were so much
united in the belief of the necessity of taking some steps to remedy
the subject of complaint as at the present. A deputation from
Lancashire, composed of individuals of all political parties, had
waited on him (Mr. Labouchere), and never did he witness
such intensity of feeling, and such unanimity as those gentle-
men exhibited. He hoped that Hon. Gentlemen in making
up their minds upon this question, would not leave out of
their consideration the points adverted to by the Chancellor of
the Exchequer. The United States and the Brazils imported
the greatest quantity of the produce of this country of all
other nations. With regard to America, their Congress would
proceed to consider, on the 31st of May, a similar deficiency in
their revenue, as had been brought before their consi-
deration to-night by his Right lion. Friend. They would, no
doubt. make some effort, by laying duties on the import of foreign
manufactures, to remedy that deficiency, and he believed that
• the conduct of the Legislature in this country on this subject
f would very much influence-the course likely to be adopted by
l the American Congress. He was assured if they adopted a
liberal policy it would be better for all parties. An excessive
• protection merely supported monopoly, and was productive
of many grievances to the consumer. When the subject came
s under discussion he would show that the abolition of an ex-

cessive protecting duty would benefit our own colonies. So
convinced was he of the good that would result from carrying
these measures that he would rejoice to see Hon. Gen-
tleman on the opposite side of the House come over and take
their seat on the Treasury benches, if they passed those mea-

sures.
31r. H. HINDE said whenever the Government brought
forward any moti n 3 for the reduction of taxation, whatever
their motives might be, they were generally close upon the
bee's of some signal defeat.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord
seemed to think the present a most appropriate time for bring-
ing forward a motion for the reduction of the duty on colonial
timber, but he thought there could nut be a more appropriate
period, considering the peculiar circumstances in which that
country was placed with regard to Canada. He doubted very
much whether the manufacturers of Great Britain,would agree
with the Noble Lord upon the propriety of giving up all pro-
tection.

Mr. HERRIES agreed with the Hon. Members who had
preceded him as to the propriety of not discussing the subjects
introduced to their notice by the Chancellor of the Exchequer
at the present moment, as they would come under their obser-
vation in the shape of resolutions. He hoped the House would
not so far forgot its duty to the country as to allow a Minister
of the Crown to state that at the expiration of five weeks he
would make an alteration in the duty on corn, and that until
the expiration of that time the House was not to know what
the nature or amount of that reduction was to be. —( Hear,
hear.) He denied that the Right Honourable the Chan-
cellor of. the Exchequer had made any adequate
provision for the deficiency of the revenue of the country for
the present year. There was a deficiency of 2,400,00/., and
the sums which he calculated upon were only 1,700,0001.,
leaving 700,000/. totally unprovided for. He hoped it was
not intended to supply that deficiency by the unconstitutional
course of the Savings Bank securities.—( Hear, hear.) He
hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would give the House some
information on that point. It never was intended that the
I unded debt should be extended in order to meet expenses not
sanctioned by Parliament. He wished the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman would inform him in what way he intended to supply
the deficiency of 400,0001. for the expedition to China, and also
whether it was intended to have recourse to the Savings Banks
to meet any portion of the existing deficiency.
The CHANCELLOR, of the EXCHEQUER said it had
been stated in thelcourse of the discussion that the Budget had
very few figures in it, and that in fact it was no Budget at all.
He contended that a great number of figures was not necessary
to be placed before the House. If the object was to bring be-
fore it good practical measures, a very few figures would suffice
for that purpose. With regard to the deficiency, he begged to
say that he had omitted to state that he intended to meet it by
Exchequer Bills. He thought that was a power which ought
not to be vested in a Minister—(Hear, hear)—but so long as
he possessed it he would not shrink from its exercise in cases
which seemed to require that lie should resort to it. The Hon.
Gentleman then stated the grounds upon which he calculated
upon an increase in the revenue from the reduction of duties
on sugar, but his statement was nearly inaudible in the Gal:ery.
The result was an increase of at least 700,0001.
Mr. GLADSTONE said the Hon. Gentleman had answered
his question with regard to the importations. Perhaps he
would bear it in mind, with a view to giving an answer to it, if
practicable, on a feture day.
Mr. VILLIERS said, as he had long taken part in what had
formed a great part of the discussion that evening, he could
not refrain from saying a few words on that subject. If the
measure proposed was such as he could consistently approve,
he would be very happy to give up the part which he had
hitherto taken, and, instead of bring forward a measure him-
self, to support that of the Government. The principle had
now been recognised that the finances of the country
must depend upon the condition of the consumer.
It was a fixed principle that when the price of food was high
the revenue was deficient; and when the price of food was
low the revenue was flourishing. How could it be otherwise?
The state of the revenue depended on the power of the con-
sumers to purchase the various articles taxed; and it is not a
particular class that is taxed, but the community at large.
The more, therefore, prices were low, the more the people
were prosperous, the more would they be able to purchase, and
the greater would be the revenue. Another irrefragible prin-
ciple was, that protection to a class was a tax on the public at
large. He agreed with the principles laid down by the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, and he hoped the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman would more fully carry into effect those doctrines which
he had developed that night.
After a few words from Mr. CHAPMAN,
Mr. PUSEY expressed a belief that the manufacturers were
not generally dissatisfied with the present condition of affairs;
and that, if the House had patience, the present financial diffi-
culties of the country would soon disappear.
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON differed from the Hon. Gentle-
man, the Member for Wolverhampton, in the principles he
had so candidly laid down. He did not think that the con-
sumers were always benefitted pro tanto by the cheapness of
articles. He considered it as a wise principle for the mother
country to retain for itself the trade of its colonies. He be-
lieved that the measures propounded that evening by the Right
Hon. Gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, had not
met with the approbation of the trading classes to the extent
that had been supposed. He was induced to think so from the
nature of the petition presented to the House from all the
merchants of London engaged in our foreign trade, praying
for a protection for our colony,
Mr. LABOUCHERE said that the Hon. Gentleman
who had spoken last, had totally misinterpreted the petition of
the merchants of London. It was true that those merchants had
not asked for a complete and absolute abolition of all
protection in trade; but he believed that the measures pro-
posed by the Government had the approbation of that im-
portant body. The petitioners stated that they were of opinion
that the present duties and prohibitions were highly detri-
mental both to the trade of the country and the revenue.
Those duties they said had enhanced the price to the British
consumer of many articles of the first necessity, and totally ex-
cluded others of foreign growth, thus giving more than a fair
and reasonable protection to individual interests to the injury of
the trade of the United Kingdom and its dependencies. and
laying a heavy tax on the community at large without bone-
fitting the revenue.—(Hear, hear.) They further stated that,
by a limitation of the custom duties, the revenue would be in-
creased, the trade and manufactures of the United Kingdom
advanced, and the shipping interest promoted; and that
their opinions had been strengthened by the satis-
tisfactory evidence, and the statement of facts ad-
duced before the Select Committee on Import Duties.
(Cheers.) That petition was signed by houses of the first
eminence in London ; and he believed he would be justified in
saying, that since the petition presented by Lord Ashburton
relative to the great measures of Mr. Huskisson, such a peti-
tion as that had not been presented by any commercial body.
The Government might undoubtedly encounter the opposition
of class interests in the measures they had proposed, but he was
persuads d that the voice of the trading community in general
would be, with them, and, under those circumstances, he felt
they were justified in the course they had taken. They would
feel it their duty, too, to persevere in the cause in which they
were engaged, and not to disappoint, the expectations of the
country.
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON explained.
Sir JOHN RAE REID complained that the West India
interests had been most unfairly and unjustly sacrificed. He
thought the reduction of the duty on foreign sugar would
cause the total ruin of that colony. He hoped the Right
Hon. Gentleman would be induced to reconsider his propo-
sition.