The Sun.
London, England, 1840-02-05 00:00:00

BILL COOLIES.

Mr. VERNON :SMITH moved for leave to' ring in a
Bill to extend to the British Colonies in the West Indies
Act. 5 and 6 William I V., for regulating the carriage of
passenge.a in merchant vessels. The lion. Gentleman,
who throughout hi; address was heard very indistinctly,
was understood to say that in consequence of the number
of persons emigrating to the West Indies, it had become t:e-
eesvary to extend to those Islands the provisions of the Act
reenlating emigration to the British Colonies of North Ame-
rica, and extending them to vessels trading between island
and I%llnd. This might have been done by proclamations
issued by the different Governors of the islands, but it bad
been considered more advisable to effect this be means of
an Act of the Imperial Legislature. As it was not likely
the motion would meet with much opposition, he should
1 content himself with reading an extract from a despatch
from Sir Willistn Colebrook, demonstrating the necessity
, of the measure. The Hon. Gentleman theta read the ex-
tract, not or • word of which was audible.
Mr. II UM B said he apprehended the extract which had
just been read was for the purpose of furnishing the House
I. with some fresh information on the subject. With all the
attention he had paid, however, he had been unable to
hear it—he would therefore suggest the propriety of de-
laying the measure for a short time in order that Members
might -
make themselves accriainted with the facts on which
~
it was founded. He had always opposed these motions,
because they held out to persons a hope of protection, where
it was impossible from the circumstances of the Me, for
protection to he extended to them.
Lord J. RUSSELL did not understand the nature of
the Hon. Gentleman's objection, nor what he could pro-
pose to himself to obtain by delay. There was one
subject of great importance, as conneceed with this ques-
tion, on nhieh he would not lose the present opportunity
of stating his opinions to the House. He alluded to
the emigration of the Hill Coolies. The result of
his inquiries int, this subject had been, that although
on the whole they bad not materially suffered since
their establishment in Demerara, yet the result of
the experiment on the whole bad been unsuccessful.
There was to b 2 considered the length of the voyage the
chance •f their being kidnapped into entering into an
agreement to go into a distant country, of which they knew
nothing; and then again there existed considerable difficulty
in carrying into effect the agreement for their return to
their own country when the time of their agreement should
have elapsed. For these reasons he did not deem it
advisable that any permission should be given for
the emigration of Hill Coolies from India to the
West India Islands.—( Hear, hear, hear.) With regard
to another part of the same subject, the emigration of Hill
Coolies to the Mauritius, his inquiries had induced him
to come to a different conclusion. In the first place, it
appeared that upwards of 20,000 Hill Coolies had emi-
grated from India to the Mauritiug—it did not appear that
they. had suffered in consequence ; on the contrary, they
had received good wages, and had been well treated.
Tracy, moreover, appeared to have heen perfectly aware
of the conditions of the contract into which they had
entered, and they were enabled to enforce its observance
upon their masters. Moreover, there was a constant
intercourse between Mauritius and Calcutta, giving the
means of keeping up a constant communication between
the people in India and their relations who had gone to
the Mauritius. Many who had engaged for five years bad
expressed their willingness to engage for five years more,
after going home to see their friends, but as the prohi-
bition against Hill Coolies leaving India was absolute, they
ware unable to do so. That being the state of the case as
regarded Mauritius, he proposed to relax the prohibition
of the Order in Council as regarded the Mauritius. It had
been proposed to engage them for five years, but to this he
objected, as he considered one year a sufficiently reasonable
time, and be thought it would beLbetter to renew the con.
tract from time te time rather titan enter into a contract
for a longer period. There was no analogy whatever be-
tween this case and that of apprenticeship. An ap-
prentice had to learn a trade from his master,
but these men had nothing to learn, they were merely'
labourers, and therefore there was no necessity fOr a long
term of engagement, and he thought if a Protector were
appointed in India to superintend the contracts, and see
that the Coolies were not deceived in the engagements
they
%sere entering into, was but just that they should
be allowed to emigrate from India, where wages were
small, to the Mauritius where they were large, and to

improve then. condition. He was aware that it was also
advantageous to the masters to have the services of their
labourers, but he considered that the comfort and well-
being of these labourers who, during the last Session, had
occupied so much of the attention and anxiety of Parha- I
inert, and most properly and naturally so, should be the
primary consideration. As he did not intend to bring, in
nny Bill on the subject, he thought it necessary to make
this .statement to the House.—(Cheers.)
Mr. HUME objected to this manner of proceeding• a_e_
precluding all discussion on this most important subject.
.11.
a Bill were brought in, the House would have an opportu-
nity of discussion.
Mr. V. SMITH said there was no new matter to lay
before the House.
Mr. G 0 U LB URN said he thought the Noble Lord would
have no riglit to conclude, from the silerce of Ftheor Home,
that they approved of his PoheY.—( Hear.) .
part, he really was not preparedß_ut he knew not enough of the
to say that the Noble
Lord had been wrong. isTown
facts to be able to express any decided opinion on the
subject.
The motion was then agreed to.
LAW OF COPYRIGHT,
Mr. Sergeant TA L FOURD said, in moving for leave
to bring in a Bill to amend the law of copyright, ho ap-
prehended that he was not called upon to say a single
word to the House in support of a measure, the principle
of which had been three several times sanctioned b) hav-
ing so many times passed a second reading.—( Hear, hear.)
He could not believe, whatever the spirit in which the Bill
might be, as it had been, opposed—that those Members
who had so often susported him, would leave him now
upon the very threshold, and refuse to him permission to
bring in another measure.—( Hear.)
' Sir R. INGLIS having seconded the motion,
Mr. WAKLE Y said, whatever might be the impres-
sion which the Bill had produced within the House, it had
excited out of the House very great alarm. The Learned
Sergeant had brought it forward on many occasions with
surpassing eloquence. But there was a broad distinction
between eloquence and argument. And he (Mr.
Wakley) believed that no two facts had been
stated to justify the proposed interference with the
law of copyright. What explanation had the
Learned Sergeant presented as to the anticipated benefits
which would arise from this measure to literature, to the
public, and to authors ? There had already been two Com-
mittees on the subject—one in 1813, the other in 1818.
The first had produced the Act of 1814, which added
fourteen years to the term of copyright. The Learned
Sergeant had never read the evidence before those Com-
mittees.—(Mr. Sergeant Talfourd intimated that he had. )
Well, then, doubtless the Learned Sergeant was hostile
to the appointment of another Committee on the subject?
—( Assent from Mr. Serg. Talfourd.) Why? Because the
result of the evidence on the preceding circumstances had
been to prove that it was unnecessary to legislate further
on the subject of copyright. The witnesses who bad the
most experience on the subject—such men as Dr. Ciarke,
Mr. R. Taylor, and Mr. Rees, stated that expensive works
were very rarely reprinted. The House should reflect
upon the vast extent of the powers of printing, and the
great increase of the intelligence of the people, and
should be cautious how they interfered on a sub-
ject so vitally affecting the information, and the
improvement of the nation.—( Hear, hear.) Whatever
the sympathy which the eloquence of the Learned Ser-
geant sad excited on behalf of a few distressed authors—
the House surely would not extend copyright to 60 years
beyond the life of the author. Why, even that the
Learned Sergeant professed to consider a disgraceful
compromise, forsooth, of that question.—( Hear, hear, from
the Learned Sergeant.) So, after having obtained this
slight concession of years, perhaps the Learned Sergeant
Tould come down for a pepetual copyright.—( No, from the
Learned Sergeant.) At all events, the Learned Sergeant
was bound in asking the House for so extensive a measure
to prove that literature was declining—that printing was on
the decay—that works of merit were no longer issuing from
the press. He had mot done so. 'I he reward of an author
should be in the appetite of the people for his works. The
noblest works ever written bad been produced when COp) -
rights were worth least. What did Roger Bacon, or
Shakspeare receive for their works ?—( Hear, near,
hear.) Tilt), wrote for higher incentives than the desire
of mere coin: . They were actuated by nobler aspirations.
Milton, for his immortal " Paradise Lost" had not re-
ceived so much as the Learned Sergeant for certain poems
he had published.—( Hear, hear.) A Select Committee
should he appointed to investigate the matter, as the
House should not rashly interfere with the property of
millions invested in the printing trade.—( Hear, hear.)
He would say nothing on that occashan of the disappoint-
ment of certain authorities, because certain men never
would believe the public thought enough of their merits.
It was the statement of the publishers that the expense of
printing, of late years, had much increased, but the great
and serious evil was the increasing rapacity of authors.
He hoped, when an examination took place,
the matter would be fairly investigated, and he Knew th
Hon. Baronet (Sir IL H. Inglis) would do his utmost to
make out a case for the introduction of a new Bill; but he
hoped the Noble Lord at the head of the Gorernintie.
would state his opinion on the subject. The Noble Lord
had formerly stated that his opinion was that a case .vas
not made out, and that statement gave great satisfaction to
an immense number of people out of doors ; at all events,
he ceisld not believe the flotue would feel itself justified in
acting upon such a creasufe, but at the same time he be-
lieved there was a strong feeling in the House of the m-
cessity of inquiry on the subject. Hr should therefore move
as an amendmere, " That a Select Committee be appointeil
to inquire into the existing laws of copyright, and to report
thereon to the Hense."
Mr. HUME said it was 21 years since any inquiry ha-
taken place on the subject. Any man who read the Re-
port would be convinced that the opinion of the Committee
was against any alteration of the law ; and he therefore
submitted, after the contests they had had, if tae L (tante
Sergeant were so 'stiseed he could make out an over-
whelming case (which he had not done) in favour of his
Bill, he could have no objection to the appointment of a
Committee. He was hound to state that the commucics-
tiers he had had, teid the opinions he had seen since br-t
year, proved at least that there was a greet diversity of
opinion. What was his own was well known. Al!, then--
fore, he should say was, that in the midst of so much deli
cultyei with such difference of opinion, and on
a question which was of so very much importance,
the matter should be examined in Committee. It would
not teke Long, and if the Learned Sergeant would not
submit to en irquiry, he must submit to opposition, .ni
he had stated on a former occasion. Hs objection to
the 13;11 was, that it would make hooks dear. He would,
therefore, submit to the Hon. Gentleman, that it wouid
be better for him to yield on this matter with a good
grace. He cared not who formed the Committee, and he
would rest the whole proceedings with it, because, in his
()pinion, it was impossible to make out a case for the
Bill. He should, therefore, second the amendment.

Sergeant TALFOiIRD said he hoped the House would
allow him on the present oceasion to decline entering into
a discussion of the general principle. He considered the
proposition made to be only another mode of obstruction,
and certainly he could accept no advice from those gentle-
men after the course they bad taken on a former occasion.
There never was a case so weak, so trifling, so nugatory,
made out for the llouse to refuse this Bill being hrought
before it-. a Bill, too, which it had adopted on three filmier
occasions—than that which the Hon. Member for Fin--
bury had presented. His argument, so far as it went, was
against the appointment of a Committee, for he it, d
stated that in 1818 a Committee had fully dir-
cuesed the question, and given their opinion against
it, and that nothing had occurred to change that opinion.
Two years ago, he ( Sergeant Talfourd) had taken the
Report of that Committee as the basis of his Bill, and
said he would be bound by the statements then made,
and that he was content to admit the evidence then
given, end the testimony of the publishers themselves,
who were at that time most hostile. The bill had
been repeatedly discussed before the House, and in the
con-se of that discussion he would venture to say there
was not one disputed fact on which the resources of the
Committee would be of the least importance. He could
conceive their difference was one of principle—it was whe•
!her an author having committed to paper the thoughts he
had conceived and cherished in solitude, should have env
property in them, or whether they should become that of
the public. Whether an author communicatieg
his inspiratisna to the world should only demand of the
public the produce of their immediate sale, or look a',
large unto posterity for the reward of works which migit
not receive Immediate attention from the public. Those
were the principles on which they had to legislate; and were
not these matters on which every scholar end thinker had
equal powerof forming his judg meat? He felt most deeply the
subject of discussion before the House. He had said the
Hon. Member should have any facts admitted be liked—
that of Mr. Black, who, by the publishing of books, had
made a fortune of 200,0001 , end that of Sir Walter
Scott, who did not make much more by creating them.
The Hon. Member should have admitted, if he plersed,
what he had alluded to on a former occasion, in a humo-
rous manner, that the best works were produced anterior
to the existence of copyright. He rested his statement of
its necessity now chiefly on the petitions of the authors
who had petitioned the House in its favour, and those who
had petitioned against it in those petitions,—these were all
the facts on which the House could ba called
to legislate. He had heard no one of them
disputed. Why then were they afraid to do so, when
the question was introduced two years ego, not by way
of obstruction to its being laid'upon the table of the House ?
But when the question was put ,whether it shall be referred
to a Committee of the whole House or to a Select Com-
mittee? which question was put by the opponents of the
Bill, the Attorney-General and the Hon. Member for
Ripon, who then opposed it, but he trusted would ne
longer
case fora
r sao ,bo
Selectth
s
propose
only to obstruct the Bill. He did not suppose itbad it
was
only
into the consideration of the Hon. Gentleman the
degree of embarassment such a propceition must make, but
that was nothing mn the if a ease were made out for a •Co
omittee,
not on the Bill laid on the table of the House, but
Copy-right Laws in general. If those who said no al-
teration had taken place since the last Committee wore to
Prc-
demand it, then he trusted the House would so far
tect the measure as to allow it to remain on the table of
the House, and being a question not of detail, not of the
examination of witnesses, but a great question of justice,
he trusted they would not allow at that stage that course to
be taken, but if they did he deemed it his duty to meet the
opposition under all circumstances, which he could not but
think it would be far bettc r for him to meet before the
House than before a Select Committee. He should there-
fore certainly oppose the amendment.—( Hear.)
Mr. WA RBURTON said that what the Hon. Mover
of this question contended for was, according to his oven
everde—‘. That any invasion of perpetual copyright
is a confiscation of property which no pretext of
public good can render just." If the Honoureele
Member's motion was agreed to, it would act
as a complete bar to the introduction of cheap literature.
By the Statute of Anne, fourteen years was given to
authors, but the Legislature being, even in these days,
sensible of the advantage to be derived from the diffusion
of cheap literature, made a condition which, it was true,
was a very absurd one, that the Archbishop of Canterbury
and certain other Commissioners who were to act with him,