The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-23 00:00:00

notifying his assent to the principle, that he
looked to the test of qualification in some extrinsic
document, and more particularly the Powl-laws; but he
bad at the same time expressed his opinion that the time
was not yet ripe to adopt that test; that unt'l the Pocr-
laws were better known, until the appe +I: had been
heard, and the rates levied, they could not legislate with
full advantage upon the subject.--( Hear, hear.) Tire
Noble Lord asked why they now called upon the House to
arsent to the proposition? But he (Lord Morpeth) would
like to know at whose door that charge lay?—( Hear,
hear, and cheering.) To whom were they indebted
for the necessity for the pie:ent legislation ?—( Renewed
cheers.) The delays of the Government were looked upon
asme repretexts—as putting off the evil day— and bols.et ing
up the present system. All these were alleged agaitht
the Government, but, not content with even that, they
must steeds have a measure of their own. Of the Noble
Lord it might be said
" No joy to him a civic sceptre yields ;
War sounds the trump, he rushes to the field."
—( Loud cheers and laughter.) He sighed over the me-
mory of former Arms Bills and Coercion Bills.—(" 011,
oh.") He had challenged them to the fight, and had
rendered it any longer impossible for them to remain tacit
spectators—(" Hear, hear," from Lord Stanley, and loud
cheers)—of his follies and blunders in the arena of legis-
lation. The Noble Lord had thrown down the gauntlet
and they had not hesitated to take it up. The Noble
Lord said they might have confined themselves to regis-
tration, anal omitted all definition of the franchise ; but it
was just there that he (Lord M.) found himself most at
issue with the Noble Lord—it was on that point that he
found his principle faulty, and his practice pernicious.
Fraud, and trick, and abuse, and perjury of every de-
scription, were the terms most frequently used by the
opposite benches. The notion that a pa. liamentary seat
could be obtained unfairly seemed to have sat heavy upon
their minds.—(Cheers.) How did the case stand ? The
Government had brought forward a measure, putting out
of 'ight its other properties, whether good or bad, which
would entirely, and from the root, remove and cut off every-
thing in the way of trick, and fraud, and perjury ; and, in the
words of the Hon. Member for Coleraine, under that Bill
fraud, personation, and perjury would be no more. Now
he would refer the House to the evidence of Mr. Fosbury,
one of the barristers appointed to superintend the original
working of the Reform Bill, a Conservative in politics, and
that gentleman, before a Committee of the House of Com-
mons, distinctly stated that it was desirable that there
should be some test of the franchise besides the oath of the
party. He could refer them to other authorities on the
same point, but it was unnecessary ; and he would merely
observe that it was in pursuance of these opinions, and the
experience of theevorking of the present system in Ireland,
that the Government had brought forward the present mea-
sure. But what had the enemies of fraud and perjury on that
side of the House done? They had brought in a Bill
which, besides its enormous faults and objections, had
a system of arbitrary registration, encumbered notices,
and complicated machinery. So far from going to the
source of the evil—so far from shutting the door against
fraud and perjury, he most truly and unfeignedly be-
lieved that its real effect would be to increase those evils
which it was so ostentatiously put :forward to check.
—(Loud cheers.) And why did they say that ? because
it left the main pciat of the contest in dispute wholly un-
checked and untouched. All the disputes which came on
in the Registry Courts—all the questions for protracted
inquiry before Committees of that House, had turned upon
the subject of value ; and it was that subject which had
not only divided Parliament, the bench, and the bar, but
bad made itself felt in the remotest Registry Court, as
well as before every Parliament Committee.—( Cheers. )
No one could take up a newspaper without seeing the
lamentable disputes—the dead lock to which these dis-
putes had led. Since he bad had the honour to bring in
the present Bill, there had been another speech from the
bench in answer to an opposing one. Was that a
satisfactory state of things to go on ?—(Cries of " Hear,
hear.") They left the franchise in all the doubt and
uncertainty which had been hitherto so loudly and, to some
extent, so justly complained of. That franchise was to be
established by the evidence of opposing parties and con-
flicting witnesses, subject to the different interpretations of
Judges and Barristers, and fraud and perjury were too
frequently the result. He would refer the House to the
evidence taken before the Fictitious Votes Committee, in
which it was stated that there had been the greatest con-
tradiction and discrepancy between the testimony of the
witnesses examined in support of, or against, the franchise.
It was true, that the Bill of the Noble Lord imposed many
restricti nes, and threw many difficulties in the way of
seeking the franchise, whether fairly or unfairly, and that
was w eat he complained of. He believed that the Bill of
the Noble Lord would, in a great many instances, effec-
tually drive away from the registry many an honest and
bona fide claimant, as well as the unqualified and fraudu-
lest eaimants. Nay, more, paradoxical though it might
seem, there would be many instances in which the Bill of
the Noble Lord would have more the effect of deterring—
that was of disfranchising—good and fair claimants,
than it would have of deterring dishonest and per-
jured ones. And he said so for this reason, that
persons of the latter kind were more easily induced
to make speculations in such matters, quite re-
gardless of the consequences. They were ready pre-
pared to run the gauntlet of all the Noble Lords' vexatious
and intricate measures. Whilst on the other hand well-
intentioned persons, perfectly well qualified to vote, would
prefer giving up their right to running the gauntlet. The
Noble Lord, in the course of the speech which he made
that night, seemed to impeach in some degree not
merely the amount of rating here proposed, but the pledges
which are to be given in proof of the qualification itself.
The Poor-law valuation established one uniform scale,
but he admitted that that was liable to some exceptions.
The Poor-law valuation had arrived at that point of pre-
cision and information which he thought it was possible for
any point of human legislation to arrive at. He con-
ceived that this uniform, invariable scale of precision was
necessary to establish a basis for any qualification. It
was not absolutely requisite that the basis itself—for
instance, in counties, they used the assessment,
for the purposes of County-cess in Ireland. What was
wanted was that the basis for the qualification should be
fixed in some stable, uniform, ascertained manner. It
should be fixed on such distinct and ascertained grounds
that it should not shift according to any passing external
influence—with the caprice of landlords, or the breeze of
popular favour, but should have in itself a certain cheek
against the admission of fraudulent votes. Such a basis
on the whole they found the Poor-law rate to be. He did
not contend that it was satisfactory in all things.
He knew that plausible extreme cases might
be urged against any measure which could be brought for-
ward. In some cases it might be represented that the
landlord would wish the tenant to give his vote as he
pleased, and would put up the elective franchise at auc-
tion, and to effect that would pay the whole rate himself.
He did not believe that there was any test by which it
could be so well proved whether any attempts were made
to put fraudulent voters on the roll or not. He did not
indeed recommend the rating under the Poor-law as an
unerring standard, but he recommended it as removing all
doubt and all opportunities of fraud. It should also be
remembered that any departure from the spirit or letter of
the Poor-law Act which could be detected was uniformly
found to have a tendency to lower, not to raise, the
qualification. The Noble Lord here referred to
statements which had been made in the previous
part of the evening respecting the proceedings which
had taken place in the union of Balruddery in support of
the view which ho had urged, and then proceeded to say
that it was quite plain whether it was by a period of ten
or five years, or by a qualification of 10/.- or 51., the
Committee on the Bill and not the second reading of the
Bill would furnish the fittest opportunity of definitively fix-
ing the points respecting the rate. But he wus now
pushed to assign the reason which induced him to adopt
the sum of Si. as the amount of rate. He had not heard
any one reason en that night which would dispose him to
recede from the proposing such a rate. They (the Minii-
ters) had made up their minds with a view to obviate
and resider improbable the recur:ence of those evils which
have so often presented themselves in the system of regis-
tration now existing in Ireland. In adopting the Poor-
law rating as the qualification, it became necessary for
them to fix an amount of rate which would afford reason-
able evidence that they meant to give the franchise which
it was intended to he conferred by the Reform Ac'. To
effect th s they availed themselves of all the information to
which they had access, and they found if they adopted, for
instance, as was suggested in the returns of the Reform
Bill, the 101. rating, that in all the Unions to which they
had access for obtaining information it would have
the effect of disfranchising a very eonsi lerable number of
those persons-on all sides who he believed were now ie
perfectly valid sad legitimate manner placed upon the
electoral roll. Therefore it was very clear that the rating
which would form a reasonable equivalent for the fran-
chise which they meant to give, should be below the sum
of 10/. They found also that there were many registered
electors who, if they did not adopt the rating proposed,
would be excluded from that registration. In consequence
of that appearing, and that there was an almost uniformly
rated :value of 5/. annexed to the possession of six or
seven acres in some circumstances, eight or nine acres in
other instances, in many cases more, but never less than
five or six acres—taking into consideration the effects of
the valuation, which whenever it was ascertained was con-
siderably lower than the amount of rent paid by inhabi-
tants, they thought it but fair to place the rated value at
Si., and give the present franchise as it was contem-
plated by the Reform Act. The franchise was that
which was carried into effect by those very persons wbo
put the law into operation under the original appoint-
ment, and under the continued superintendence
of the Noble Lord opposite, when he filled the
place in which he (Lord Morpeth) succeeded
him. With respect to the gloss which was put on
the franchise subsequently, he would only refer for the
effect it would have on the registration of voters in Ire-
land, by mentioning what was stated relative to the
Union of Longford by a person appointed to inquire into
the circumstances bearing upon the subject in that union.
The Noble Lord here proceeded to read the statement to
which he referred, the purport of which was, that he
could not find one solvent tenant who would be
able to pay 101. over and above the amount of his rent.
Now he (Lord Morpeth) owned he had much repug-
nance to bring forward any proposition which should
have the effect, either directly or indirectly, of raising
the elective franchise in Ireland. When he addressed
the House the other evening, he quoted some compara-
tive statements of the numbers of the constituency in
this country and Ireland, and his object, with respect to
Ireland, had perhaps been misunderstood, certainly mis-
represented. He had never attempted to convey the opi-
nion that they ought to base the qualification on mere
numbers, or in any way recede from the principle of the
Reform Bill; but when he found such glaring dispropor-
tion between the number of voters in the three countries,
when he found that the ratio proportion was in England
one in eighteen and a half, in Scotland one in thirty, and
in Ireland one in seventy-seven, he did think such a
state of things required a remedy.—(Hear, hear.)
The Hon. Member for Monaghan thought these calcu-
lations ought not to be taken into account, but if
they were to have tee electoral body answer its constitu-
tional purpose, he (Lord Morpeth) did . think it was
necessary to eater his emphatic protest against raising