The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-03 00:00:00

IiVi4ITING FDITIC 'N.

done."' Of course she answered that she was no t able.
" Then," said he, " should not that teach you -to do
the meat a little less at first, because you could do it a
little more." Now, might not that, however homely,
be applied to the subject of these Courts. .Let them
establish one Court, and if that did not do, if it were
proved that another Judge was necessary, then bet them
establish another. That was the opinion he entertained,
and on a subsequent stage of the Bill he would take the
liberty of moving that only one Court be established!.
unless, indeed, he was convinced that the proposition of
the Government was anecessary one. His mind was fully
open to conviction, but, as at present advised, he would
propose the amendment of which he had given notice.
He would now offer a few observations upon the con-
stitution of the new Court. When the present Vice-
Chancery Court was appointed, the Judge obtained a
rank after the Chief ,Justice with a salary of 6,0001.
a-year. The object was eieet, having ,a vast amount of
business to transact, and bein appointed to represent
itlheeeeCssliilary Chancellor and
iavnedhm
perform hisstfautnioc!nioun:_is,dh:s7cwas tichnotugrhct.
munetation. Any one who knew what the le.4urs of
the Vice-Chancellor were would say that it wie3 im-
possible to give him too high a remuneraseern
and he trusted that the Noble Lord, who he uncle) -
stood intended to reduce the salary to 5,000/. after
the decease of the present holder of the oilier, wouldl
thick better of it. It was an office that no one who '
knew Ant its immense labours were, would covet.
The Vice-Chancellor was obliged to rise hours before
the sittings commenced, to read over the great mass of
papers which were laid before him, and his labours
could not therefore be estimated by the mere duration
of the sittings. In like manner he trusted the Noble
Lord would not lower the salary of the new Judge,
who must ba a perfectly competent equity lawyer, and
the object would not be attained if his duties were not
properly and efficiently discharged. It was proposed
to make two new Judges dependent upon the Lord
Chancellor, Although he did not agree to that, he
wished it to be remembered that when he was in office
he proposed a measure which would have met public
convenience, very much in the way now proposed. lie
did not think it would be right to displace the
renk of the Vice-Chancellor, or to lower the salaries.
Tney had by a former Bill given the Lord Chancellor
the power of correcting abuses in his Court, and had
armed him with a degree of authority which he (Sir
E. Sugden) did not wish to see placed in the bands of
any man. He thought, however, that a most important
improvement on the system would be to remodel the
offices of Masters, which required reformation as much
as the Courts themselves. He thought that without
provisions to that effect any measure would be imper-
fect, and he hoped to see those officers responsible to
the public in point of fact, and not merely in theory, as
at present. He bad heard many propositions about the
Mester's offices, some of which he could not approve
of. lie thought the lower offices must be improved,
and that the higher Courts must be improved also.
Nothing was the subject of greater complaints than the
composition of our Courts of Appeal, but if the law was
now open to objection, how much greater would be
the objection, when they were going to create two new
Courts of Appeal ? The composition of the House of
Lords as a Court of Appeal was a great anomaly. It
owed its establishment to a train of unforeseen circum-
stances ; its jurisdiction was denied in late times by that
House, in the strongest terms, and to the extent of
committing persons who sought its protection ; and
though it was ultimately established, they were conten-
to leave their authority in the state they found it. What
could be more absurd than that the decrees of a Judge
who was competent to the performance of his task,
should be reversed by a body of Peers, who were en-
tirely ignorant of every matter relating to the adminis-
tration of the law ? Had this practically been the
cas', the glaring absurdity of the practice would have
rendered it intolerable ; but the great body of the
Peers acquiesced in the decision of the Lord
Chancellor ; and he was, in fact, the sole
Judge of Appeals in the House of Lords. It was
right, therefore, to consider the qualifications neces-
sary for the performance of the functions of Lord
Chancellor. It sometimes happened that circumstances
might render it expedient that that office should be filled
ey a person not possessed of the greatest share of equity
ay., who might have to learn the law which he was
called on to administer, on whose judgments no de-
pendence could he placed, not en account of any fault
of the individual so filling the office, but because, pre-
vious to his appointment, his attention had been en-
tirely engrossed by matters foreign to the study of that
law which he was called on to administer ; and it
might happen, as it sometimes hail happened, that ho
might decide on a case without calling in the assistance
of the other Judges. All appeals from the
Court of Chancery must be appeals to him-
self. This, of esetn, was a most alarming fact. If a
Judge in the Court below was called on to re-hear a
cause, as that:cause would not be carried to another
tribunal he might change his opinion without any im-
pugning of his judgment, as other circumstances might
have been broil ht to his knowledge ; but in a case of
appeal from his judgment to a superior Court, unless it
was a case of some obvious slip, it would be contrary to
human nature to expect that he should reverse his
own decision. His authority being impugned before
his Peers, he had every motive and every feeling to
affirm his own decision. He was, in fact, to all in-
tents and purposes, a party in the cause. If a Judge
had a pecuniary interest its a calls',., he was not per-
mitted to sit in judgment on it ; and whilst character
and high station were of any value—whilst salf-love
was an actuating motive in the human brecst, the Lord
Chancellor, sitting as the Judge of Appeal in the House
of Lords, would have a much stronger motive than
any pecuniary one could possibly be to affirm
his own decision. The ancient Grecian had ap-
pealed from Philip drunk to Philip sober ; but
appeals from the Court of Chancery to the House
of Lords were appeals for Philip sober to Philip drunk
—appeals from a Judea uninfluenced by any motive, with
all his passions slumbei ing, to the same Judge actuated
by the strongest possible motives, the passion of self-
love, to support his own previous judgment. Such a
system could not lone be allowed to continue, and he
knew that no one deprecated it more than the present
Lord Chancellor himself. He did not desire to in-
terfere with the jurisdiction of the House of Lords more
than was necessary, but in his opinion that jurisdiction
could not remain untouched. it was a complete ab-
surav to appeal from the decision of the Lord Chancellor
in the Court of Chancery to the same Learned Judge
sitting in the House of 'Lords. Ho (Sir E. Sugden)
deprecated the hearing of appeals by ex-Judges, for he
thought there was a great difference in men when they
acted under the oath they had taken as a Judge, and
when they were not bound by any &itch oath. He
viewed with alarm the number of judgments that were in
arrear in the House of Lords!. It was an effort too
great for the human mind. Whilst there was so much
business to begot through there must he and always would
be an arrear. Ho proposed, therefore, that the Lord
Chancellor should have constant and regular assistance.
lie had no wish either to add to or to diminish the
jurisdiction of the House of Lords. It was essential to
the character of that House that it should continue to
lave its present jurisdiction, and he would neither
diminish nor interfere with that jurisdiction. But whilst
lie was riot willing to disturb the jurisdiction of the
House of Lords, and wished to see it remain in
its present state, he was prepared to propose that
two Judges should be appointed who should be
called Lords' Assistants, and sit with tile Lord Chan-
wilier. If not Peers, they would of course have no
voice in the House of Lords, and only deliver a ju-
dicial opinion ; but still they would act as Judges
during the hearing of the cause, deliver their opinions
openly as Jto'gcs, and in all respects sustain that cha-
racter. Such assistance would at once cure all the
anomalies to which he had referred. He proposed also
that the Home of Lords should have the power of
calling in the Equity Judges to assist them, as they had
at present the power of calling in the other Judges.
In 1830 he had proposed the formation of an Equity
Exchequer, to be composed of four Judges, namely,
the Lard Chancellor, the Vice-Chancellor, and two
Barons of the Exchequer. It was objected to that
the effect would be to carry the Judges, to a great ex-
tent The Honour-
able not concurred in by the House.
oiipatfot
neither
ici:tt.
to:
.0,
cut.critt h e o
Courtif ,
had
i at,
(ill
Privy Council.
own Court, and Ida proposal
able and Learned Member then went at consider-
able length into the merits of the plans of reform pro-
opthfei
they
tyehliel by the
Rolls
all
presentin
failed,t
_1
eo LordunseowoCfphraoLponfprocoLorepdsloelosro(sicirlens
tandtao 01
n:ba,3t,h6i Masterne;gbiunt hai
ss
btoyokthefrnolm,imntnohlreen(llseoi upisl
plan, and the merit belonging to it was, in his eyes, that
add to power
thosenow
oceTwles The 3
,J
andud !c i ahla
dto decide Committee
it alreade possessed. The other part of his plan re-
upon al! the laws not only of Europe but of Asia, and
had jurisdiction over all the property of the country.
The sittings of that Committee extended only to 18
days during the whole of last year ; it had no head, and
in his opinion it had been as great a failure as the Court
of Review. He proposed, in order to make it a proper
Court, with a proper head, and regular sittings, that the
two persons who were to assist the Lord Chancellor
should, when not so sitting, sit in the Judicial Committee.
The Right Hon. Gentleman proceeded at some length
to detail the arrangements which he thought necessary
to be adopted respecting the relative positions of the
Judge and Counsel in the Court, to afford the greatest
facilities for conducting business conveniently therein,
and after a liw further observations on that part of the
subject, sat down.
Mr. LYNCH contended that an additional Judge
was necessary. He would, in the first place, direct the
attention of the Right Hon. Baronet to the evidence
given before a Committee of the House of Lords, where-
by it was proved that out of 1,068 suits instituted in the
Courts of Equity, 300 only were set down for hearing,
and out of those 300 only 180 were heard each year.
Those 120 causes that were thus annually withdrawn,
were not, ho submitted, causes of compromise, and that
number formed quite sufficient work for a single Judge
in each court ; for when they heard of a Judge hearing
1.20 causes, they should learn that he not only heard
those causes, but he must also take care of them ; he

I

EVENING 14MIT10,N.

crust hear all the incidental matter that arose out o 1
those causes, and all the necessary motions referring to
'hem. He (Mr. Lynch) contended that he had
made out a case for an additional Judge. There was a
'—ey large arrear in the number of causes se
awn before the Lord Chancellor. His Right Ho
eriend stated that the present arrear in the Vic--
Chancellor's Court amounted to 455 causes ; but he
dtd not take into consideration 100 other causes that
stood over ; ho would be, therefore, more accurate if
he had stated the number at 555. His Right Hen.
Friend might also have told the House that there were
causes now ;finding over two or three years in th.
Nice-Chancelor's Court. The Right Hon Biroao.'
gad himself proposed that two additional Judger
should be appointed in the year 1830, when
the arrears were not near so great as at present.
His Right Hon. Friend admitted the present Judges
could not do more work than they did at present, and
yet it was proposed to impose more upon them. What
other remedy then was there but to create new Judges ?
The present want of judicial power occasioned the com-
promise of suits and their renewal._ It was said the
arrears in the Court of Chancery were not so great as
they were, but the Lord Chancellor would not he able
to hear another cause until next Michaelmas term, and
consequently the arrears would increase in the interim.
There was a great arrear of motions in the Vice-Chan-
cellor's Court relative to railways, in consequence of
which the Vice-Chancellor did not hear a cause for
months together. In the time of Lord Hardwick
there was but 400 causes and :370 petitions in
agear, but now there were in arrear 2,700 petitions.
Did the Hon. Gentleman mean that those two Judges
whom he had proposed as assistants to the Lord Chan-
cellor were to give judgment in his absence ? He did
not think his Right Hon. Friend had rightly stated
Lord Langdale's proposition, and it appeared to him
(Mr. Lynch) that until that plan of Lord Langdale'e
was properly carried out, they could not make adequate
provision for the equitable jurisdiction of the Court.
It appeared to him further that the Lori Chancellor
ought to go into the House of Lords, where, if the busi-
ness was properly conducted, there would ha a regular
bar, and the appellate jurisdiction would be then pro-
perly attended to. These were some of the suggestions
which he had thought it his duty to throw out to the
House, and he would repeat, that let them reform the
Appellate Court as they might, still the Bill of his
Right Hon. Friend would be necessary.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL replied. As there
appeared to be no opposition to the bringing
.in of the
13111 on any side of the House, and as the objections
taken were all to matters of detail, he should offer very
tew remarks to the House. He would, however, ob-
serve that it was the unanimous opinion of all the law
Losds, Chancellor, ex-Chancellors, and all, that there
should be two new Judges. With regard to the mea•
sure which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had
'stated he would bring in, he (the Attorney-Gencral)
would offer no opposition to its introduction. Ile was
willing that the House should see it, and no doubt the
measure would receive such support as it was thought

dcs7rving of'.
Leave was then given to bricg in the Bill.
Sir E. SUGDEN moved for and obtained leave to
bring in a Bill for the better Adminifitiation of Justice
ir) the ;louse of Lords, and the Judicial Committee of
Ise Pr vy Council.
RUM AND SUGAR.

Mr. LABOUCHERE, in rising to bring this sub-
,:: Mare the House, stated that it might be conve-
,2nt to the Members that he should state at once
..cas not his intenCon on that occasion to ask for
ey expression of opinion that would bind the House
It, any future stage of the measure he intended to pro-
se. It had been stated to him, by persons is hose
r-,.perty would be affected by the measure, that it.
be fully < xplained to the House, and that the
!tbstlnee of the resolution he intended to move should

some days before the 110113 C lTfore it was caked upon
..•dopt it. He felt that such a cturse would be de-
-al,lc, and therefore willingly acceded to it. His in-
n,ion that night was only to mike a statement of the
()Ludt oa which he. was prep:it-A, oa the part of the
t.:overt,ment, to recommend an alteration in the duties
T•umn, the produce of an East India possession, and he
)Icu!il concude by moving that the House do, on
:,i,whiqy next, resolve itself into a Committee to
“-sNer si much of the Act as rWted to the

,:y on ruts, the produce of any p,--ssession
the limits of the East l:r.dia Company's charter.
Vhcry al the law at. present allows sugar to be i:n-
-d frem the East. s at a proportionate rate of
cci.h the produce of tle same kin:l from the
it was his object to propose—and he
it just and reasonuble—that the East In-
, , s ..,bould be at iiiicrty to send into this country the
. der produ::ts of the :czar cane upon the same terms
aqunlity. He thcniglit this proposal w• so only just
reasonable, nod wad be received so by the Housn.
In the curse of the list Session, he had himself pre-
b•• teal a petition from .he Dacetors and Proprietors of
e East India Cimpany and other pzzsons interested
~: our intercourse wiih the Eist Indies, praying for an
dization of tho.;2 duties. Oa that occasion, he
-..dsaid that although he was at the time unprepared to
a decide:l opinion upon the question, he would take
whole saij cot int ) his consideration. A Co:mnittee
the Home of Lords had agreed to resolutions in
.ich he concurred, with the exception of that one
inch stated that the _West India Colonies were in a
ate of transition, in colvcquence. of the abolition of
renderif-g it nixessary that they should not be
own all at once into a competition with other colonies,
had not the same iliflhulties to encounter. Ile
.auld not duty that the West Indies rcuired the sup-
Hit of the rnotißT country, under the circumstances
uhich these colonies had to contend ; but he must
!,:cadre that in the measure which he now proposed he
1,1 no intention to give a stimulus to the products of
Ea,t. Indies adversely to the colonies. He did not
:nk that the market for ruin in this courdry would be

•'•ettlitl by the proposed measure in a manner iojuricus
cur West la( c donies, and he thought he
Bald be Ale to lay before the House facts
ameetcti with the case, which would .how how hiss-
(, ,s »nil futile were the appr.hensons entertained on
suliiict. There was a tinitchal difference between
t supp'y of ruin anti the supply of sugar in this coun-
ty at the prz'sent moin?nt. It was well known that
supply of sugar now rect.ilved bo.h from the E tat
111,ist Indies 57,13 melt qu tte to the oriteary wants
the British mat ket. .W 1) it wLre the c•ins-quene^s of
Thy of the Wcst. linlies enjoy tl.e
ale monopoly f..r rem as for sugar, but practically the
sc was very tliff rent. (Au u n. Meraher intimated
t.; dissent from tb.e propositauri.) "I'ke Iti4llt Honour-
Glillentan a Itf that lie ti.ought it would
v tun accuracy of stateatcut. The West
idies were at present unable to send a sulli-
' at supply of sugar to this country, nbile they
re able to send a very considerably larger quantity of
than the British market
.required, and the cense-
'ler, of course, was that the surplus was cripartcd to
whiir countries. It followed from that the price of
tutu was not fixed in tee English market—the price of
it here was -govt.rned by its price abroad. Of course,
..sra could be bat one price for the 'surplus rum ex-
led and: that consumed in this country. The
would at once see thit that was the case
n he remintled them that sugar in bend varied
ry much in price, nhile there was no such
,ereaces in rum in bond, because its price

1t

-e...; sure to be known from its price in foreign mar-
-I;ete. He could state a fact on the subject to which he
-was alluding, which he thought would leave no d )uht
c'w the matter. In the course of last year 100,000
lons of rum had been purchased for the navy—
:}.),ooo gallons from the East Indies, and 50,000 gal-
l. le from the West Indies, and in both cases they ob-
ti,,ed rum of the same quality at precisely the same
price. Ho mentioned that ,to show that if they
• eeealized the dut, there would be no fall in the East
lodine rum, or any injury done to cur West Indian co_
leeies. He did rot think that the proposed measure
s ould be' attended with any such effect, and be,
• therefore, felt that they could not refuse their
s,:eient to a resolution which, on general grounds, every
• flier should aditait was one of sound policy. It was
• true that if thensupply of rum from the West Indies
were considerably inferior to what the English market
required-, the measure would be attended with disad-
‘, Intiages to those colonies, as they would then of course
I—,va a monopoly of the price of rum in the British
e,erket. Bat that was cot the case, as he had already
stated. He cared not, therefore, what was the great
' advantage of the duty to the West Indies, or what loss
they would sustain if the law were altered. It might,
' however, be said that if that were the case—if the
• measure would not be attended with any loss
c,, the West Indies—it could not be followed
any gain to the East Indies. He admitted
the fordo of that argument. Ho admitted that on both
,ides the importance of the question had been greatly
sLaggerated ; but at the same time, as generally hap-
::-led with regard to those restriction?, that inconve-
, erne which they caused on the one side was greater
*um the gain which they gave on the other.—(Hear,l
::ear,) It was true that there was one case in which
the law at present operated unfavourably to the East
ledies, and that was in the case of the finer kinds of
which were purchased up in this country, and of
which the West Indies at present enjoyed a monopoly.
As that, however, was but an itera of the trade, he did
not think the repeal of the enactment would produce any
very injurious consequences to West Indian interests.
He would really be glad to hear from Hon. Gentlemen
opposed to him some reasonable proof that the change
which he sought for would be so injurious as some
seemed to imagine. He thought that the House
should require that proof would be given—that there
ought to be something more than mere apprehensions
—something more that allegations, to show that they
would deeply injure oneportion of their colonies, before
they refused to sanction a measure which was one of
• teidoubted justice and fairness to the West Indies. No
one who bad paid any attention to the evidence which
had been taken before both Houses of Parliament
could fail to be struck with the feeling with which this
qeestion had been discussed by both sides, more
especially with the manner in which the sub-
ject laid been urged by those connected with

'.lie East Indies. It had been represented that a strong
feeling of public opinion was growing up in the East
Indies, not only among the English inhabitants but
also among the netive population ; that in our coma
mercial regulations we went out of cur way to inflict
measures injurious and disadvantageous to India ; and
when he spoke of public opinion among the native pa-
ulation, he would be borne out in stating that there
was growing up among the native population an increased
Feeling of intelligence, which enabled them to eoeipre-
hend and discus's questions of this nature. He there-
fere thought they were bound to see that there was
some good and solid reason for refusing them a boon of
this kind, which had been urged so strongly by those
who represented their interest in this country—he
meant the Board of Directors. He would now read
to the House a statement of figures which would put
them in possession of the present state of the rum trade
in India, and by that statement it would appear that he
was fully borne out in saying that at the present moment
there was snore rum brought from the West India co-
lonies than could be consumed in this country ; conse-
quently, that a large quantity of it was exported to
foreign countries, were it met with East India rum ;
and if the West Indians, in selling rum to the Germans,
were able to compete with East India rum, he could
not see why they should not be able to do the same in
England.—(Hear, hear.) The paper he held in his
hand was a statement of the quantities of rum imported
into the United Kingdom, distinguishing that from the
British West Indies ; that on which duty had been
paid, and that which had been re-exported, from the
years 1833 to 1839, both inclusive. From this state-
ment it appeared that the quantity of rum imported into
the United Kingdom, from
,all places, during the year
1833, amounted to 5,146,000 gallons ; the quantity
imported from the British West Indies, during that
year, was 5,109,000 gallons ; the quantity on which
duty was paid was 3,49,000 galloes ; there was a
small quantity used as ships' stores, and the qe an-
tity re-exported was 1,834,000 gallons. In the
year 1834, the total quantity imported from all places
was 5,158,000 gal;ons, from the British West Indies
5,112,000 gallons, the quantity on which duty had been
paid was 3,345,000 gallons, and the quantity re-export-
ed was 1,655,000. He would not trouble the House
by going through the details of the intermediate years,
but he would read the statement of the last year in the
account, 1839. In the year 1839, the quantity of rum
imported into the United Kingdom from all places
amounted to 5,477,000 gallons, from the British West
Indies 4,021,000 gallons, the quantity on which duty
was paid was 2,830,000 gallons, and the quantity re-ex-
ported was 1,155,000 gallons. In addition to the
account of rum exported in 1839, he should state also
that there had been taken up for the use of the navy,
ships' stores, &0., of West India rum G 34,000 gallons,
and of East India rum 87,000 gallons. He would put
it to the House whether this was not proof sufficient
that a much larger quantity of rum was imported front
the West Indies than could be consumed in the English
market ; that it was obliged to be exported to a third
market, principally to the north of Germany, where it
met with rum from the East Indies, Cuba, and Brazils,
with which it was able to compete and find a market.
Now it was too obvious for him to waste their time by
attempting to prove further, as long as this surplus
existed, the price in the English market must be
governed in a great degree by the price in the third
market. If these figures were correct., he was at
a loss to understand on what foundation the ap-
prehension expressed by the West India interest
could rest, that it an equalization of the duties on
East and West India rum were to take place, they
themselves would suffer great loss, while the state of
the rum market would be altogether altered. He now
came to that part of the subject which had excited the
apprehensions of many who were ready to admit, that
if they could be certain that the rum imported from the
East Indies would be really rum, the WeA Indians
would have no right to complain ; but they were ap-
prehensive, that under the came of rum, a cheap spirit,
distilled from rice, flavoured with rum, would be im-
ported, to the great detriment, not only of the West
India colonists, but also of the English distillers; and
some of the gentlemen representing the West India
interest, but, he was Lappy to say, however, without any
great success, had endeavoured to enlist the East
India distiliers in opposition to this measure.
New he thought that if any gentleman looked atten-
tively to this question he would at once perceive that a
znere idle bugbear had never been set up than this
attempt. In the first place, the measure he intended
proposing did not refer to all spirit but exclusively to
rum, the produce of the sugar can:, and if the House
should approve of his resolution, he should take care
that in the Bill founded on it a provision should be
introduced that no rum should be admitted into this
errantry except upon a rea Elias certificate of the
Rseenue officers in the East Indies.—(Hear, hear.)
It was true the ()leen had no Revenue establishment
in tire East Indies, but on ccnsubir g the Board of Caie.
torus on the subject, he was authorised to say, by the
Chairman of that Illard, that he should have as muds
coafil•nee in a certificate brought to the Customs ri
this country from the ofII!or of the East India Com-
pany, As he would in the Custom-house establishment of
her Majesty. He thought, therefore, unless gentlemen
were prepared to say that a certificate was Worth
nothing, he should, by hating that certifizete, put an--
effectual stop to the introduction of rice spirits.
should also observe that this spirit would have to pay .a;
9s. duty, and it was not very likely that the distillers.
and merchants w,sulel be greatly injured by suchi
spirits bsing brought to this country.— (Heah,
hear.) He bad not received any representation
train the ditil.ing interests of the country, that there
we the least fear of that happening which bad been
supposed, namely, the introduction of cheap spirits to
the detriment of the West Indies. As he understood
it was not intended to discuss the present question on
the other side of the House that night, he did not
think it would be necessary to go further ; all lie was
anxious to do was to state the general grounds on which
he introduced the sul),Pct. His firm convi'ation was
that, unless it could be shown that they were inflicting
great iejery on the West Indies. which had riot been
proved, there could be no objection to the measure.
11;: could assure the House that it he thought he was
inflicting injury, he should be as anxious not to iatro-
(lnce the measure, as he was now to introduce, it.
There was now, lie was honey to say, a feeling arising
la tire population of the East ladies which, if this coun-
try cultieated, would be one of the strongest lirk , of
concretion between them and tint, country, but winch,
if despised, would be attended with the worst effscts.
He was anxious that they should show that country
that wherever inequalities existed it was their pleasure and
de:ieht to redress them. He eras sure the House would
not so far desert its duty as to suppose that it was not
brand to consider the interests of the East Indies as
much as any other part of the country. He should be
sorry to see the House twin a deaf car to the proposal
which, without doing injury to the West Indies,
would confer great benefits on the East ledies.--.
( Hear, hear, hear.) The duty on spices and silks
required revision, but lie would not express any opinion
upon that now ; but there was one subject upon which
he would just state the opinion of the Government.
Ho alluded to the trade between the Eastern Colonies
of Ce3lon and Australia. That trade had been greatly
injured by diserimin sting duties. A Committee of the
House of Lords had recommended that those duties
should be eciallised, and he must say that in that opi-
nion he cordially concurred, for it was not to be tole-
rated th It the trade between the East Indies and those
countries should be put a stop to by such duties.
Was it not a measure of common justice and of obvious
good policy, cs regarded Ceylon, Australia, and the
Rot Indies, that this state of things should undergo an
alteration ? He was happy to state that it was in con-
templation, by an Order in Council, to put the duties
upon Indian produce and manufactures upon a more
equal footing. He would not trouble the House with
any further remarks on that occasion. He had pledged
himself to give the subject his attentive consideration ;
and having done his best to redeem that pledge, he would
' now propose that on Monday next the House should go
into Committee on that part of the Act of Parliament
relating to the duties on rum and sugar.
Mr. EWART said he would not go into this sub-
ject at any length, partly because his Right- Honourable
Friend had deprecated discussion on that occasion,
and partly because there was a question pending before
the House that evening which might possibly disin-
cline many Hon. Members from giving that attention
to a commercial subject, which it was so well qualified
to command. But he must express his regret at the
mode of supporting his motion which had been
adopted by the Honourable Gentleman. He thought
it quite unnecessary upon u measure founded
on the strictest justice to argue the question
as one which might possibly affect the West Indian
body, or weaken a monopoly which had been so long
maintained.—(Hear, hear.) The question was one of
justice ; it was not to be narrowed and circumscribed
into a West Indian question, or a question of any
monopoly whatever. He also regretted that the Hon.
Gentleman had not made his motion more extensive,
and taken in a greater range of commerce. The Report
to which he had alluded opened to him a wider field
than the one over which he had expatiated. There
was the question of extending the commerce in sugar,
which now came almost exclusively from Bengal ;
there was the question of allowing produce grown in
many of our East Indian possessions to be placed on
the same level with Bengal. Mysore, too, which ought
to be placed upon the same footing. Those questions'
might all have been referred to. He would, however,
reserve any further observations which he might have
to make upon this subject, until the, second reading of
the Bill. For the present he would content himself with
.deprecating the course of narrowing this into a mere
West Indian question, and entreating the House, when
the subject came again before them, to make the
measure of relief as large and comprehensive as
thepocratsaelicree,qnuoirtedoly
required. The subject was one of a vast
tar,,
to the East Indies, but to Great
Britain herself, and to the commerce which bound the
two countries together.
Mr. GOULBURN said he bad been very much
surprised at the motion then before the House, and,
considering everything which had occurred, the pub-

lishcd Report of the House of Lords, which was laid 1 I
.upon the tahle of the House last Session, and the cir- i 1
eumstance that, from the Committee of the House of i 1
Commons which contained members of the Govern- i
merit, there had not proceeded a single syllable in de-
rogation of the opinion of that Committee of the
House of Lords, he thought it was impossible for the
House to accede to the proposition before it. Ile (Mr.
Goulburn) thought it would be highly improper for the
House to embark in a discussion so large and irepor-
tent in the absence of complete and full information.
He would not express any decided opinion at present,
but he should be prepared to state his opinion on some
future occasion.
Mr. HUME said that if the Right Honourable
Gentleman was surprised at what had been brought
forward he was taken by surprise, not because the pro-
position was so extensive and vast but because it was
so trifling.—( Hear, hear.) As far as it went he per-
fectly accorded with the measure, but it was only one
act of justice when many were required.—( Hear, hear.)
Not only the interests of India but the best resources
of England had been injured by the restrictions vshich
had been suffered to remain so long upon commerce.
The vast powers of India to promote commerce, and to
increase wealth, we by our legislation had actually
limited and prevented. India had not had fair play ; on
the contrary she had been cramped and confined in the
exercise of those ample powers which she naturally
possessed for the extension of her commerce. The reve
nue of India had consequently suffered toso great a degree
that she was scarcely able to meet her increased expen-
diture. If England had been benefited, it might be
some excuse for this state of things ; but England had
herself been a loser by these restrictions. He had
therefore expected that the Hon. Gentleman would have
brought forward a much more extensive measure than
was before the House. The Right Hon. Gentleman
would find as much opposition to this paltry and trifling
amendment as if he had brought the whole question be-
fore the House. The time was come when all leeisla-
lation in relation to our commerce must be reconsidered.
He would only at present enter his protest against this
paltry way of dealing with the subject, and be hoped
that the Government would think it right to adopt a
larger measure, more suitable to the requirements of
the country and to the present state of India.
Mr. HOGG wished to say one or two words with
regard to the Committee referred to by the Honourable
Member for Cambridge. That Committee was per-
verted into a regular West Indian Committee.—
(Hear, hear.) There was no Report made. When he
proposed that they should make a Report, he was met
by the objection that they had not heard half the evi-
dence that could be adduced. It was said that witnesses
could be brought from almost every island in the West In-
dies, and that it would be useless in the absence of such evi-
dence to make a Report. With regard to the measure
proposed, as far as he (Mr. Hogg) was acquainted with
the feelings of those connected with the East Indies, he
could safely say that it would be hailed with plea-
sure and received with the deepest gratitude. A
more extended measure might, and he hoped soon
would, be introduced into that House ; but the
great and crying evil in India was the question of rum ;
and he believed that the particular body with which he
was connected, and the East Indian interests at large,
would hail with great satisfaction the measure which
had been proposed.
Sir JOHN HOBHOUSE said be hoped that the
Honourable Gentlemen who thought the measure did
no go far enough, would consider the formidable
opposition with which the Government had to con-
tend, and not refrain from giving their support to
what was proposed because it did not go far enough.
The Government had shown what their disposition was
by their determination to make an Order in Council
'.Pith respect to Ceylon and Australia ; and he trusted
to it Hon. Gentlemen would give them credit for their
into lions —(Hear, hear.) He hoped that these gees-'
:ions would crc long be considered, not with reference
to any particular body, but to the. interests of the
whole ernnirc.—(Hear.)
Mr. 0 nONNELL would not infringe the agree-
ment whist. seemed to have been come to by the
House, not to discuss this measure at length on that
occasion ; but tt. begged to say that on Monday next
he would call the ; ttention of the House to the neces-
sity of preventing ommerce in rum slave-roam:et%
and to the violation o: that part of the Act which re-
lated to the mitigation of slavery in the East lndies.
Dr. LUSHINGTON slid he quite agreed with the
Hon. Member for Dublin as to the absolute necessity of
exclu ling from the cqueli.sation of duty any produce which
might be the pro lace of slave labour. Not only did he
concur in that opinion, but he must say that he went
further ; because, attached as he was to the great prin-
ciples of the motion of his Right Hon. Friend the Pre•
sideut o' the Board of Trade, yet he thought they
could not, either with justice to the West Indies, or
-.- with due regard to the great principles laid down in that
:House from time to time, allow the East Indian produce
. to be placed'upon the same footing with the produce of
iatlie• WeatAnslies, unless the whole system of slavery
- 11:exIstingin the Est Indies were altogether extinguished.
—( Hear; hr.) It was not extinguished—it was not
:extirpated— it continued to flourish, not only as a do.
mutts system of slavery, but is y the import of slaves
up to that very hour. In 1833 his Noble Friend Lord
o Giesie'g,.tahen he brought in the RH respecting the
~ Company's Charter, introduced a clause putting an end
. to all Slaiscey in the East Indies, and that clause passed
...,tNr.
iteoStivlzosuiite.e.t.-
then
believed,hastiyor without
determined
a s
igle
upon
•
'most eminent men connected with the subject were
rconsulted, and the Noble Lord was informed that it
'would be perfectly- safe, therefore the clause was car-
ied. It was true that the Lords threw it out, but they
did not do so upon principle, they wanted to have
further evidence on the subject. It was his intention
to ask the Right Honourable President of the Board
of Control to produce all the papers on the
subject in order to know what steps the Company
had taken to carry out the intentions of that
House. or whether they had done anything after
obtaining a full knowledge of the proceedings of that
House. He thought the House would never consent
to allow, in the face of all its most solemn declarations
; upon the subject of slavery—it never would allow those
. principles to be set at nought in our Eastern dominions.
Ile would say put the Est Indies on the same footing
with the Weet Indies in teaspect to slavery—let slavery
. bo extirpated, and he would go fatalist than his Itght.
Hon Friend, and say, give jostice to the East Indies
not oaly in the articles of sugar end of rum, but in
evsry other production. He would ask those papers
of his Right lion. Friend, and on them he would be
prepared to ground a motion for the tctal .abolition of
slavery.
Mr. BROCKit URST said British interests li.a,
not been alluded to either in the Report of the Lords'
Committee or in the discussion that night, but he trusted
1 i they would be taken care of as well as those of the
, people of the East Indies.
The motion was then agreed to—the Committee to
sit on Monday.

REGISTRATION (IRELAND).
Lord STANLEY rose for the purpose of moving
for leave to bring in a Bill for amending the Law for
the Registration of Voters in Ireland. He was relieved
from trespassing on the House at any length, because
the subject was not only not new, but even too fa-
miliar to those whom he had the honour to address ;
also he could not believe that the House would re.
fuse in the present Session permission to bring in a
Bill which he had been allowed to do last year with-
out difficulty or ditision, and one, the second reading of
which he had obtained by a majority, and on which he
was almost warranted in saying, but for the difficulticiand
unpr cedented delays which had bean thrown in its way,
would now have been the law of the laud.—(Cheers.)
He would only shortly remind the House of the main
provisicns which he had proposed for the purpose of re-
medying those abuses which were admitted to exist by
all parties, for it had been admitted on all hands there
was an universal and unanimous conviction th it the
abuses which had been stated over and over again as
arising out of that system of registration now existing,
was so unbearable as to render legislation upon the sub-
ject absolutely necessary.—(Hear, hear.) The first
point he proposed to effect by the Bill, which obtained
such universal assent last Session, was to abolish alto-
gether the system of certificates in regard to the right
of voting ; and he proposed that, because he thought
that that system was the main spring and source of the
mischief. In lieu of that system he wished
to introduce no new and untried plan ; his object
was to introduce the English system into Ireland, by
which a register made up by certain specific public offi-
cers would be formed, and that that should give, with-
out further dispute and cavil, the right of voting to all
who were upon such register. He proposed also to
transfer another portion of the English system to Ire-
land, namely, that the claimant in Ireland should give
a public notice of the same length of time, and with an
equal degree of publicity, as the claimant in England
was obliged to give, so that all persons intending
to dispute the claim might have the same public
opportunity of contesting such claim. So also
he wished, as in England, that the registration
should not be carried on in the Quarter Sessions, but
be considered as an object of primary importance. He
therefore proposed that the registration should be an-
nual. He did not propose to alter the Judge, but that
the Assistant Barrister should make the registration
specific business at a separate circuit ; therefore, not
altering the authority, but changing the time and sav-
ing time, by including in the circuits several towns
where his Courts should be held, for the purpose of
considering any objections that might be made to a
claimant nearer his own home than the assize
town. But there was another portion of his
Bill to which much cavil had been made.
Without casting any imputations upon the Assitnnt
Barristers, he thought it-was impossible that the whole
registration—that the rejection or admission of a claim
should rest wholly upon one individual. Such was the
law at present, and what was the remedy which was
opened to aggrieved parties ? They had none but the
most inconvenient, expensive, and uncertain remedy of
an appeal to a Committee of the Houieof --Commeris",
upon a petition respecting a contested election. - Now,
every side of the House—all parties agreed—that it was