The Sun.
London, England, 1840-12-03 00:00:00

Tlll4' sUN, LONDON, THURSDAY, DECEMBER a, 1810.

FRANCE.

CHAMBER OF DEPUTIES.
SITTING OF MONDAY, Nov. 30—(FiFrit DAY).
(Concluded from The Sue of yesterday.)
M. de Tocqueville—lt is reported that the English
Ministry has signified to the French Government, that
if the armaments are proceeded with and increased, that
that would be considered as a cases fella by England.—
(Exclamations.)
M. Guizot—Never, never.

Several voices also exclaimed, " No, no."

M. de Toequeville—l am pleased that I made the
remark, because it has called forth a contradiction. I
only feared that some intimation of the sort had been

made to the Government.

M. Gu:zot (very emphatically)—No, Sir, never.
M. de Tocqueville-1 now say that I do not think
it is in the power of the present Cabinet to realise my
idea or follow the course I have pointed out. The
manner in which they have clam into power will pre-
vent their doing what I have recommended, for the opi-
nion which it represents is a real weakness in the eyes of
Foreign Powers. The Honourable Member here en-
tered into an examination of the state of public opinion

in France. Ace9rding to 6i, view there were two feelings
in France, viz., the patriotic sprit which must be listened
to, and the revolutionary spirit which must be combated,
but care must be taken not to enter imto a straggle
with either one or the other, or to endeavour

...... ~
to stifle either, as had been recommended. The
patriotic spirit, which is the more dangerous of the two,
was powerful in France, and would not yield to any
violence which might be brought against it. It i 3 said
that the Government desires peace, and that the national
interest desires war. If you would not give strength to
parties—if you would not incur great danger, do not
encourage the idea of such a dissension. I will sum ki p
in a word. There are two great roads which lead to
revolution ; the first of these, gentlemen, is well known
to you, you have been told of it ; it is a violent, an
unjust war, which leads to anarchy ; the next road,
gentlemen, was pointed out to you by the Minister of
Foreign Affairs when he entered into the coalition
against the Cabinet of the 15th of April. It is an iti_
glorious peace, a peace without honour. Let us with
equal care avoid one and the other.—(Approbation Irons

the Left.)
At the close of M. de Tocqueville's speech the sit.
ting was suspended for a short time. At four o'clock
it was resumed.
M. Jouffroy—Last year, when the rupture between
the Pacha and the Sulta❑ took place, and the Cabinet
applied for a credit of ten millions for the increase of
our forces, I was charged with the mission of stating to
the Chamber the policy of the Cabinet, and the Cham-
ber gave its assent to the views of the Committee on
the grant in question. This was the first time at which
the Chamber was called upon to offer an opinion upon

the policy of the Government, and its manifestatiion on
that occasion was a moral adhesion to that policy. I shall
now endeavour to show whether the present crisis has
been brought on by a departure from the policy then
manifested by the Chamber, or by adhering to it. (The
lion. Member then referred to the report which he pre-
pared, and observed, that at that time everybody felt
that Russia was endeavouring to prepare the way for
an exclusive influence in the East. It was also felt
that there was another power in Europe which sought
to obtain a direct influence over Egypt. Such, he
said, was the opinion of the Committee to whom was
referred the examination of the demand of the Govern-
ment for a grant of ten millions for the increase of the
• navy.) The Committee was reproached with being too
Egyptian as to its views. 1 beg to say that this re-
proach was unfounded. One feeling pervaded the Com-
mittee. It was that the Ottoman Empire was menaced
both from the north and the south, but more directly
from the north, in consequence of the Treaty of Unkiar
Skelessi ; the Committee never showed a leaning either
towards Turkey or Egypt. Russia, Gentlemen, has a
direct interest as to Constantinople ; England has a
direct interest as to Egypt ; she could never consent to
leave in the same hands her two routes to India, for if
the master of those routes should become hostile to her,
her means of communication with India might be cut
off. As to France, it was her interest, and she had
no other, to prevent the exclusive influence of either
power, and this was the feeling of "the Commit-
tee. (The Hon. Member then proceeded at great
length to review the different phases of the Eastern
question, and went over the entire ground of the nego-
tiations, and observed, in conclusion of this part of his
speech, that if the negotiations had been carried on
more skilfully, and France had been the first Power to
sign the treaty it might have been considered a
triumph of French policy ; for the treaty in itself was
not unfavourable to France to the extent which it wes
supposed by many persons to be, for it provided against
the exclusive influence of any of the contracting par-
ties). The treaty, added M. Jouffroy, was not tnade
in the interest of Russia, for Russia has been deceived
by it. England can do nothing against us without
Russia, and Russia can do nothing against us without
the cc-aperation of England. Is not our position,
then, butter than ever? I have only to recommend to
, you, Gentlemen, to entrust to a clever Government
the execution of the policy which is clearly indicated
by the situation of things, and in five or six years you
will see what will happen. A great deal has been
said about the degradation of the country, and the
Joss of its influence. I cannot conceive anything more
improper or unwise than this mode of speaking of the
nation. France ought not to be told that she had an
opportunity of playing a great part, and instead of
having done so, has placed herself in a state of isolation.
Do not, Gentlemen, attempt to terrify the nation with
this talk of isolation. For my part, I consider this iso-
lation a great advantage, although I cannot but regret
that it was not brought about in a different manner.
M. Ducos began by going over the general points of
the Eastern question, and alluding to the events which
had been realized, and then proceeded to say that Eng-
land had been long desirous of obtaining possession of
Egypt. This, said he, was the prey which she had
been anxious to pounce upon. The Honourable Mem-
ber then complained that France had twice arrested the
Pacha of Egypt when lie was marching victoriously
against Turkey, and had taken no guarantees from
those Powers which had an interest in crushing the
Pacha. France had found a faithful Ally in Mehe-
met Ali, and had shamefully abandoned him. As
to the Treaty of the 15th of July it was, he said, a
mere fraud. It pretended to be for the repose of the
world, whereas, in fact, it was merely for the purpose
of fulfilling the views of interested parties. Alluding
to the relative position and interests of France and
England, he observed that Franco had been the first to
proclaim the freedom of the seas, and that she was
bound to strengthen herself, and encourage all the rising
navies of secondary Powers, so as to put an end to the
monopoly of England on the sea. The French fleet,
he said, had risen in greatncss,it had conquered Algiers,
the trade of Preece flourished, she had a fine array,
she was being regenerated, and all this gives great
offence to Old England, which had made use of France
us long as she thought the alliance necessary for her
interests, and had then altered her policy, and endea-
voured to degrade her. The policy of France, he added,
in abandoning the Pacha, was both erroneous and humi-
liating.
General Bugeaud here announced his intention of
speaking on the address.
M. Ducos—After having armed, we ought not to
content ourselves with merely demanding for the Pacha
toe hereditary government of Egypt ; on the contrary,
we should not have been drawn into ruinous and useless
expenditure ; and to accept the actual propositions after
having assumed an imposing attitude, is to instil into the
country a doubt of its own strength. What ought to
be the part acted by France ? What does it behove
you to do ? To use a language at once firm and calm,
and to maintain the integrity of our strength and of our
influence. Do not permit the deposition of the Paella ;
and, it' over the Allied Powers go beyond the limit fixed,
the country will say—" Marshal Soult, do you head
the army ; Admiral Duperre, take you the command
of the fleet"—and it will not hesitate at any sacrifices
which you may require from it.—(Approbation.)
General Bugeaud—The committee has had under its
eye all the documents necessary to give it a clear idea
of the spirit of the negotiations, and we have been iin-
pressed with the conviction that there has been no inten-
tion of deceiving France on the part of the Allied
Powers.—(Exclamations on the Left.) Yea, I repeat,
the reading of those documents has convinced every
Member of the Committee that there was no insult
against France intended by the Treaty of London.—
( Interruptions from the Left.) Certainly, Gentlemen,
I possess the national feeling to as high a degree as
any of you, and I have the advantage over many of
you of having given proofs of my devotedness for my
country.—(Cries of " Oh, oh," and long interruptions.)
I possess in a high degree the love of my country, and
I hate proved it.—(Oh, oh.) And I again repeat the
assertion which I have made to you, as founded upon
the documents.
M. Mauguia—You have had communicated to you
only what suited the purpose.
Generel Bugeaud—All the documents have been
communicated to us, and it is after a careful and im-
partial perusal of them that wa declare to you our con-
viction that there is not in them any just or equitable
ground for war. A cry of war has been raised, but
this cry carne from the !actions, and we were bound not
to listen to it. The language of faction, Gentlemen,
is always a calamity for the country, which should be
governed by the voice of reason. The Opposition has
accused the majority of the Committee of not compre-
hending the national feeling ; in answer to this, permit
me to observe, that four Members of that majority have
shed their blood in the service of their country. The
journals were all for war, and so, Gentlemen, in the
first instance, was I. I even wrote two letters to the
President of the last Cabinet, in which I gave him sonic
very bold opinions as to the kind of war which it would
be necessary to carry on if we did go to war, but I ar-
rived here, and, having read the documents, I became
convinced that no insult had been intended against
France, and my warl:ke ardour was calmed. Nay, I
became still less warlike when I had read the journals of
the Opposition—(A laugh)—which said that the Go-

CHAMBER OF DEPUTIES.—Sirriso OF DEC
At half•past one the Chamber was in sufficient num"
ber to resume the adjourned debate upon the Address.
The Ministerial bench was occupied by M. Gulzot
M. Martin (du Nord), and several other Members o
the Cabinet.

3300 3300 ~.. WO „.3:3. G
vernment was not fit to ....o to war, and that it • 1," °f "-ranee
LL:.illitte Bank I,ooof. Sh 1055 ...1.,60 .. lib:. ...1660
would betray the country. When I saw that, 5000 f. Stares 5150 ...Sl5O ... 5.541 ...5150
917 LO ... 930 ... 9').' 50 ... 9'27 50
I faucied I perceived an insurrection on the point of P•clgi3" f,1i,12,;%,,,„t, ua .. 93 .. 97744 .. 97;
explosion. I know very well that we could put down the 3 per Cents
a.,,,y , a .3/, 9,, .., 93
factions, but in order to have this done we must have 1`.'e,,:,f,i(,)"ic.,7,;•• - s•• •• ••• , , „.,,„
t:a% ... •,,i ... '2.01/4, ... ,•)''g
had an increase of 50,000 men. Where does tile Portuguese 3 per Cent.
163 SO ... 143 50 ... 103 40 ... ,01 5"
danger lie ? It lies in the language of the passions ~
•INJ:=1,".1"
which divide the country. Yes, I should have been ; RAILWAY SHARES.
more warlike but for the prophets of the horrible maxim 1 , 1. B i t•ergal .C!. 1.. . 305 ... 315 ... 305 —3O
that, in order to resist invasion, we can adopt only sc- 1 ortean, 4OO .. 490 ... 490 ... 494)
Disapprobation from the Left.) I.
s r.,,burg to Bate 247 5n... e(7 SC ...*,t7 50 .. 247 Z,41
volutionary means.—(
.. . .... ~ ~.. . . -
I wish 1 had the necessary eloquence to put down this
lamentable error, which is unfortunately general in our
---....-----
public schools. Ala! Gentlemen, how is it possible that BRUSSELS, DEC. 30.—His Excellency Sir G. Sey-
they can be free from it when it is taught by the histo-
mour, the English Ambassador, had a brilliant soiree
rians of the revolution ?—(Great laughter.) But, I 1110
yesterday, on occasion of the birth of the Princess Royal.
bound to observe that M. Thiers, in a moment of vir- BRUSSELS, DEC. I.—The Government 'has caused
tunas inspiration, deprecated this delusion in this Chain-
five pilot corvettes to be built, which are to cruise, it
bar in 1831. 'clier,• is a party which pretends that the
is said, in the Channel, and at the mouth of the
country could n.:ver resist its foreign enemies unless the
Scheldt, in order to be, at hand to furnish vessels
guillotine were erected on all our public squares.—(Ex- I hound to Belgian ports with pilots. This service, it is
clamations.) I have heard this said a hundred tiaaes by added, will be organised as soon as the convention on
young men whom I love anti esteem.—(New axelarna-
this subjact with Holland shall be agreed upon.
tions from the Left.) The history of our revolution is itELGI A 144 I. U NDS—BaussELA, I)Ec. 1.
unfortunately less fatni!iar than the history of the Medes ,dual Del,t,'..!!:, per Cent.
Rothschild's Loan, 5 per cant 4i7 A;
and Persians. Persons who were engaged in the war
Loan of Thirty Millions, 4 per Cent.
at that period have assured me several times that there (► 4'.) ua
were not in line azainst us more than 150,000 ni, n, Spey Cent.
whilst we had 1,000,000.
times
fibresattecna.m_p(aiAgngitlaisonn.)ot —Thirty•seven
Loan of 001,1832,4 per Cent 0
Society of Comm, ree, 45.,i per Cent lio
fortunate, Bank of Belgium, 5 per Cent 83%
A Deputy exclaimed—What you are saying 13 not Naticnal Society .
French. Exchange on Condom (shunt) 11 9-5
—Brussels Papers, Dec. 1.
Geaeral Bugeaud—l think, however, I am quite
right in saying it, for there arc immense numbers of
young men in France who seem to imagine that all that
.a necessary to overturn the armies of Europe is to sing
the ‘• Marseillase."—(Great laughter.) I am a great
admirer of the Marseillaise, ashen sung in good season.
—( Increased blighted.) When fi4hting has been re-
solved upon it is well to sing the " Marseillaise" before
combat ; hut during the combat there should be no
singing, for silent troops are most dreaded.—(Latulh-
ter.) If, in 1793, the Allies had concentrated their
forces they would have been in Paris.—(Exclamations
from the Left, and cries of " Order.") I beg, G,Nitle-
men, that you will not misundentand me. What I
wish to say is, that mere courage and patriotism do not
suffice for the defence of a country ; there must he or-
ganised armies ; I repeat, that if the Allies hail been
able to concentrate their force, they would, in spite of
the fury of Danton, have probably reached Paris. As
to the question immediately before me, I have only to
say that It will not be easy to make any reflecting in in
believe that Europe treats us with disdain, and that we
are in a miserable state of weakness of which it takes
advantage.—(lnterruptions from the Left.)
A Voice from the Left—Conclude, conclude.
General Bugeaud—Your continual interruptions
make me lose the thread of' my speech, and if I am te-
dious it is your fault.
Several Deputies exclaimed—" That is quite true.
It is an organised system."
General Bugeud—Fortunately, however, it shall not
prevent nay saying what I think.—(Applause.) I re-
peat, that Europe does not treat us with disdain, for it
knows that there is something more in France than
braggarts and prattlers ; that there are twenty millions
of brave cultivators, whose hands have never shed ink,
but which are ready to shed the blood of their enemies.
—(A laugh.) With such a force as this, gentlemen, it
is not likely that France will submit to disdain or insult.
General Bugeaud then stated that the speech of 1.
Tillers had struck upon his military fibres, and pro-
duced such an effect, that he began to inquire whethei he
had not been' mistaken in his own view of the question
on examining it with treat care, however, lie found him•
self more confirmed than ever, and was not to be misled
by the arguments of a press which did not give a faithful
account of public matters, or even of the proceedings
of their own Chamber. He concluded by stating that
he should vote for an armed peace, and for every thing
that could contribute to maintain the dignity of France
' it were to be seriously menaced.
TE being now six o'clock, the Chamber adjourned.

BELGIUM.

HOLLAND.

THE HAGUE, DEC. I.—His Majesty King William
Frederick, Count of Nassau, arrived at Berlin on the
27th of November.

Preparations are making here for a great general il-
lumination on Saturday next, the sth of December, on
occasion of the solemn entry of his Majesty King Frede-
rick Willi/Lin 11.

ROTTERDAM, Nov. 30.—1 t appears to have been re-
solved by the Magistrates of this city, that the King's
birthday shall not be formally kept on the day itself, bu t
on that day when his Majesty makes his solemn entr y
into this city ; a twofold fete may be celebrated with a 1
possible splendour. The inhabitants of Rotterdam wi 1
doubtless join in this resolution of the Magistrates. It
is expected that the illuminations which will take place
on the oezasion will be very magnificent.

DUTCH FUNDS.—AMSTERDAM, DEC. 1.
Noner. Bale.
I cum' Dabt, c.!<, per Cent
Atto, ditto 5 per cent.
ist,ott Syndic, 0,',, per cent S6',L4 87
Ditto, ditto, 3!<, per cent 7144 72 k.
Commercial Company, 4,4 per ccut 168% 170
i)itto (035 and 11437) 5 per cent.
Loon 14,37, 5 per cant.
Exchange on London, One month l2 41,',
Two months
Dutch Papers, Dec. 2.

M. Corally was next in turn on the President's list
to address the Chamber. The Hon. Deputy remarked,
as a singular feature in this debate, the extreme eager-
ness shown by the three former Cabinets to screen
themselves from the responsibility of the awkward situ.
ation in which France was placed by t'ae complication
of the affairs of the East. It was evident from this co-
incidence that. there were grounds for self-reproach, and
that a fault had been committed by some party or other.
It. was difficult to say who was to blame ; it was clear,
however, that so powerful a nation as France could not
have been reduced to a state of isolation in a single
day. This must have been preparing for some time.
By too minute an attention to the affairs of the interior
former Cabinets had lost sight of their foreign relations,
and had allowed the influence of France to be weak-
ened. The lion. Deputy then entered into a lengthy
examination of the Treaty of the 15th of July, and the
negotiations to which it had given rise, concluded by ob-
serving that it was the duty of the Government to be
more watchful and energetic as to her foreign interests,
and use every effort to restore France to the position she
had so long occupied in the scale of nations.
M. Berryer then ascended the tribune, and observed,
that although he might be obliged to repeat many singe
previously stated, the Chamber would allow him to ex-
press his opinion on the whole march of. affairs up to
the present moment. In the outset of this question M.
Tillers said that, in a Monarchy which they had raised
and supported for ten years, he could no longer meet
men who had shown resignation under the humiliating
position in which France had been placed. He, for his
part, did not think such language sufficiently strong
when the dearest interests of his country ware menaced,
and her influence in Europe reduced to nought. He
should remind the Chamber of the words he had so of-
ten uttered relative to this subject, and were now
unfortunately realised, namely, that they could not
have allies in the Eastern question From his
place in the Opposition he had endeavoured
for the last ten years to do his duty as a good
citizen, and warn his country against the evils
which menaced it. He believed that the new al.
hence which had suddenly sprung up in Europe was
entered into not because Fiance had declined joining in
it, but simply as an alliance against France, and to ex-
elude her from the high position she had always reein-
tained. A few days since the Minister of Public In-
struction dwelt on the necessity of the English alliance,
on the ground of its influence upon the morals and insti-
tutions of the country. He by no means coincided in
this opinion ; on the contrary, he felt convinced that
the attachment to the English alliance was the fatality
of the country. France ought to strain every nerve to
support her independence, and to prove to Europe that
she had the intention and the means of supporting her
character among nations. Much had been said oft
the conciliatory tone of England, and the efforts she
made to induce France to join in the Treaty of the 15th
of July. These were mere assertions, not borne out
by facts. In his opinion all the overtures of Lord
Palmerston to force the Dardanelles, &c., were subter-
fuges, and made for the purpose of having a pretence
to separate from France, and form an alliance of four
against one. It was absurd to think that the object of
the 'Frosty of the 15th of July was to maintain the in-
tegrity of the Ottoman empire, and the independence
of the Sultan, when it appeared that one of the stipu-
lations deprived the latter of the power of settling his
own affairs, and made England and the other parties to
the convention the masters of the Turkish empire.
After a tribute of praise to the Cabinet of the lthh of
1\143', the Hon. Deputy referred to the policy of its
snuoctcebsesorersal(isoed,ifae Ist of March). whom he characterised
" the !` thick and thin" advocates for the English alli-
ance. But the chief of that Cabinet and his colleagues
soon learned by experience that such a theory could
and that the principle of England was
to make use of France for her own purposes, act in
concert with France for her own views, but never for
mutual interests. After the 15th of July, when they
had been deceived by the signing of the Treaty with-
out their knowledge,- wounded in their feelings by the
act of violation France opened her eyes to the false
position to which she had been reduced by a too confi-
dent reliance upon the faith of England.
(LEFT SPEAKING.)

The National on the subject of the loan which
the Government is reported to be about to contract—
" This new loan is the necessary, the inevitable con-
sequence of the financial confusion which has prevailed
for these ten yearF. For ten years the resources of
the country
winds. In spite of the repeated warnings of the Pi-
have been squandered, scattered to the
nance Committee, and to gratify a selfish and impro-
vident policy, expenses have been accumulated on ex-
penses, prodigalities on prodigalities. Peace has been
used as if war had been for -ever effaced from the list
of future contingencies; in the'midst of unparalleled pros-
perity, the secret has been found of opening the abyss
of thedeficit ; and now, from a mere demonstration for
some, timid and insufficient measures of precaution, it is
necessary to have recourse to a loan, if at least these
new sacrifices served to any purpose, if for the money
which it wrested from us our houses were protected.
But no ; we pay for a disgraceful peace, the price which
we formerly paid for glory- We arm 500,000 soldiers
to watch the interior, for which fears are entertained,
and to quiet foreign Powers, of which we (on) are ac-
complices.
What a mission is that of this Government, disgrace
and ruin at the same time.—La Gazelle de France.
The fleet of Admiral llugon is now on the road to
Toulon, where there are at this moment 16 ships of the
line, with 12,000 guns, and the crews of which amount
to 12,000 men. This is almost double the force which
the Allies had before St. Jean d'Acre.-----Le Conimere.
BOURS E. —Nets, TUESDAY, DEC. 1.
first Highest Lowest Last
Price Price. Pric, Price
French f. per Cents
4 per Colts loa 25 ... 103 25 103 25 ... 103
4 per Cents 9,) 25 ... 99 25 90 25 ... 99 25
.1:: Cents 79 U 79 65 79 45 ... 79 60