The Sun.
London, England, 1840-02-18 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON. TUESDAY. FEBRUARY IS, 1840.

IMPERIAL PARLIAME N T.:

HOUS.E OF LORDS, FE2. 17.
Their Lordships met at Five o'Clock.
The Marquis of BUTE presented petitions from
numerous parishes in the counties of A 3 r, Forfar, Ross,
Perth, and other places, praying for a modification of
the existing law of Church patronage in Scotland.
THE ADDRESS OF CONGRATULATION.
The Earl of ERROL, who was dressed in the
Windsor uniform, and bore his staff of office as Lord
Steward of her Majesty's househo!d, informed the
House that her Majesty would receive, at two o'clock
to-morrow (Tuesday) the address which tliat House
had voted on Friday last.
CHURCH PATRONAGE (SCOTLAND.)
The Earl of ERROL presented Several petitions
from Aberdeen, praying for an alteration of the law of
Church patronage in Scotland.
The Earl of ABERDEEN and the Duke of SUTIIER.
LAND presented several petitions to the same effect.
C HURC 11-RATES.
The Duke of SUTHERLAND presented a great
number of petitions from places in the Staffordshire
Potteries, praying for the abolition of Church-rates.
INDIAN EMIGRANTS—THE WAR IN
INDIA.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH having understood that
a Bill had been introduced into the other House of
Parliament, to legalize and regulate the emigration of
labourers from the E ist Indies, he thought it desirable
that their Lordships should he in possession of all the
information which could be obtained respecting the c
in-
dition of those who had already emigrated : and ho
the, efore would suggest to the 'Noble Viscount oppo-
site (Lord Melbourne) that such information might be
furaished to the House. He took that opportunity of
calling the attention of the House to another subject.
Whin the Noble Viscount was about to move the
thanks of the House to the army in India, on account
of its brilliant conduct at Ghuznee, he first laid before
their Lordships all the despatches relating to that
achievement. But there had since arrived despatches
from General Wilshire, containing an account of
successes no less brilliant, and worthy of the
thanks oc P..r:iament, which had taken place at Khelat.
—( Hear, Lear.) He begged therefore to suggest to the
Noble Viscount the expediency of laving that despatch
before the House to complete their Lordships' informa-
tion as to recent events in India, and to enable them
to judge whether the army engaged upon that oc-
casion did not also merit a vote of thanks. There
was another point to which he wished to draw the attcn-

tion of the Noble Marquis. When the ‘var with Ava
was terminated the thanks of both Houses of Parlia-
ment were voted Ey name, not only to the Commander-
in-Chief and the General second in command, but to the
Brigadier-General. In the present instance, however,
that course had not been adopted ; rind he begged to
call that fact to the attention of the Noble Viscount.

Viscount MELBOURNE concurred entirely with
the statement of the Noble Lord, as to the propriety of
a vote of thanlrs to General Wilshire, and he thought
that the rote that had already been carried in that res-
pect, might be amended by inserting his name.
SPAIN.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY postponed
his motion with respect to Spanish sffuirs till to-
morrow week, in consequence of the indisposition of
the Duke of Wellington.

SOCIALISM.
The Bishop of EXETER wished to ask the Noble
Viscount at the head of her Majesty's Government,
whether in July last he had received a letter from the
Rev. Andrew Irvine, of St. Margaret'", Leicester, to
the effect he would row read :—(The Right Rev.
Prelate then read the letter, which stated that Socialism
was on the increase in Leicester, and expressing a hope
that the Noble Viscount would take the subject into
his serious consideration.) He should like to know
from the Noble Viscount whether he had received the
letter ?
Viscount MELBOURNE—I did receive the letter.
The Bishop of EXETER—Did the Noble Viscount
take any steps in consequence of that letter ?
Viscount M ELBOU RN E—No.
The Bishop of EXETER—Did the Noble Viscount
consider that any steps were or were not necessary to
be taken ?

Viscount MELBOURNE—Now you see this will
lead to an argument on the whole subject, which
I am very unwiring to enter into ; but certainly,
in my opinion, it was not necessary to answer it.
Indeed, I very much question the prudence of the
course which this House has adopted with respect to
that question.
Tue Earl of ABERDEEN observed that the Noble
Marquis the Secretary for the Home Department had
rebuked a clergyman for not sending him
information instead of favouring others with it.
Viscount MELBOURNE was much obliged to the
gentleman for his communication, but he had not
answered it because he was desirous of avoiding a con-
troversy upon it ; but he was afraid the Right Rev.
Prelate would frustrate his object.
The Bishop of EXETER would beg leave, in pre-
senting a petition, so make a few remarks upon
what had just fallen from the Noble Viscount. The
Noble Viscount at the head of the Government, after a
long debate, assented to a full inquiry being gone into
upon the evils of Socialism. The Noble Viscount did
not then state that he thought their Lordships were
unwise in adopting that course : but he certainly
wished the Noble Viscount had had the manliness
to state that course was imprudent if he thought so.
He was astonished that the Noble Viscount had rot
thought it his duty to take immediate steps on receipt
of that letter, especially as a great part of this case
rested on the Noble Viscount's own act—( Hear)—an
act which he himself had admitted at least %yea
an indiscretion ; but that indiscretion was being
followed by evils of the greatest kind, by encourage-
ment of doctrines which could not be entertained by
any of her Majesty's subjects, without tending to the
destruction of society. Therefore, he should have
thought it was the Noble Viscount's duty to have in-
stituted inquiries. lie should have thought that it
would have been but natural that he should have
inquired of the Magistrates of the place whether Those
evils were spreading ; the Noble Viscount would have
been told that they were spreading—that they had at-
tracted the attention of the Magistrates, and that the
Magistrates were eager some course should he taken to
put them down. The Reverend Gen&eman, being
rejected by the Noble Viscount, took another course.—
(Hear, hear.) He applied to the office at which this
lecturer of Socialists was a clerk, having seen an adver-
tisement in a paper for premises suitable for a school, and
that application was to be made at that office. The Rev.
Gentleman, in a letter written to him (the Bishop of
Exeter), said it was satisfactory to him that the
Clerk in the Railroad Office who tried to cor-
rupt the person who vaa his Sunday School teacher,
was immediately examined by a Board of Directors,
and, es he avowed a rigid adherence to his principles,
declaring himself to be irresponsible for his conduct and
that he should feel justified in robbing them if he
felt inclined, lie was dismissed from his situation
The Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies had,
on a former occasion, stated that he thought the
Clergyman then alluded to had not done hia duty by
preventing him (the Marquis of Normanby) from per-
forming his duty, by not giving him immediate informa-
tion. He regretted that the Noble Viscount was not
actuated by the same feelings. Trusting that the
Noble Marquis would follow up the course be had
promised, he would be content to present his petition,
which was from Mile-end, praying the House to take
steps for putting down Socialism.
The Marquis of N ORM ANBY had certainly stated
that in his opinion it would have been more natural,
and according to his duty, if the clergyman was aware
of a servant of the Government holding and counte.
nancing such opinions, had he at once have
communicated them to him, and not have
given what he confessed was his imperfect
recollection of them six months af:erwards.—( Hear,
hear.) He would not have risen even to make
that remark, had it not been to read to the House an
extract from a letter he had received from the Mayor
of Leicester, which would prevent the ill effects
of the high-coloured statements made by the Rev. Prelate
The Mayor said, the number of enrolled Socialists sub-
scribing money to the funds does not exceed 50, and in
addition to that there were 200 candidates for admis-
sion; who were placed for three or four months
in a state of probation. There is only one
place for meeting, and it is only thirty feet square.
Last year they held frequent meetings, which were at-
tended by many through curiosity. The Super-
intendent of Police had attended many of the meet-
ings, and had reported to the Magistrates that every-
thing was conducted in the most peaceable manner ;
and he concluded by saying " the Mayor and Magis-
trates are watching the proceedings."
The Bishop of EXETER said his Rev. Correspondent
did not far differ from the numbers given by the Mayor.
He put the numbers between 200 and 400. He further
stated that the Town Magistrates had taken no other steps
than giving instructions to the police to stop all illegal acts.
Now he (the Bishop) had carefully stated that the Social-
ists had committed no violence physically, but that they
had been guilty of gross violations of the:law—violations so
serious that an ordinary riot would be as nothing compared
with them ; nay, in his opinion, the most violent cutrage
in the memory of man did not deserve to be mentioned in
the same breath with such blasphemous, however ; eace-
&ble, violations of the law. lie hoped the Noble ,Marquis

would tell the Mayor, as well as all other Magistrates, that
they were bound to see that blasphemy was put down as
well as riot.—([leer, hear.) Then as to numbers, his
Rsv. Correspondent said that they were not more nume-
rous than Unitarians, vet they had exclusively given
Mayors to Leicester under the new Municipal Act. He
did not mean that as any reflection upon the Unitarians,
but mentioned it merely for the purpose of showing what
even such a small number might be when acting with
perseverance, and for political pu-poses.
Mr. BERNAL, and others from the Commons, brought up
the Transfer of Aids Bill.
Viscount STR ANG FOR D gave notice of a motion
for Thursday next, respecting inland warehousing, and on
Msnday he would call the attention of the [louse to the
state of annoyance and depression under which the British
tr.de labours on the coast of Sotieh America. While he
was on his legs he would take the liherty of reading an
extract from a letter he received from Buenos Ayres on
Sa'urday last —" We have at this moment rotting here
at Buenos Ayres alone, without reference to other ports,
218 cargoes, all ready for shipment fer British ports, and
tie property of British subjec's—all brought down in the
natural belief that we had a Government at home which
w elle' and could protect us, and would at last put an
end to this most illegal blockade, which is compelling us to
leak at our cargoes perishing daily under our eyes "
Ile letter concluded with these words—" I wish we bad
Lord Palmerston here." That state of things had lasted
three years. The Noble Lord opposite had said last Ses-
sion that it would be, remedied ; but thin Session he said
no remedy could be: applied ; but he (Lord Strangford)
would tell the Noble Viscount that the law of England de-
clared that there was no wrong without a remedy. Ho
would tell him that the law of nations said the game. If
the Noble Viscount would move from the lofty sphere
is which he lived and moved and had his being—if he
would descend to move amongst the merchants and men
of business of the country, and would ask them what was
their opinion of the care which his Government had taken
of their interests, he would hear one universal voice of
condemnation—one wide and universal opinion, that at
no period had those interests been so completely neglected,
or the honour of this country so lagrantly insulted. The
reason of that was, that the Government was not re-
sdected abroad, and that was because there was no fear
of English power, and consequently no respect abroad for
the English name. The statement which the Noble Lord
at the bead of the Admiralty made the other night,
in answer to a Noble and Gallant Friend of
his, had excited the astonishment of every man
who was connected with the naval and military
service of tho country. The Noble Lord concluded with
the understanding that the Noble Viscount (Melbourne)
would consent to the papers being moved for on Friday
next.

COSTS IN CASES OF LIBEL &c.
Lord DE NM A N laid on the table a Bill to remedy
an evil which had b2en felt for centuries, and which
had been of late more frequoutly experienced. lle
had shortly to state that the olject of his proposed Act was,
that in every case where the damages were no more than
405., costs beyond that sum should not be allowed. His
Noble Friend near him knew that there were provisions
for that purpose at present, but they were not tffectual.
He proposed to enact that in actions for trespass, unless fur
the right, and unless the same be certified by the Judge ;
and in all actions for libel and slander, unless the plaintiff
recover damages in more than 403. he shall not be allowed
more than 403. costs. Such actions for libel as the Bill
reerred to, were, on account of their insignificance, abso-
lutely a nuisance. in the way of the public business, and
were of no advantage to the parties themselves.
The NOBLE and LEARNED LORD said that be would
move the second reading on Monday next. He also laid
on the table a Bill for removing doubts as to the power
of rating inhabitants.
Lord DENMAN, in the absence of Ldd Brougham,
moved for copies of the Charters of the Universities of
London and Durham, and King's College.—Ordered.
The House adjourned at a Quarter to Six o'Clock.

to act in strict accordance with the rules of the House,
be would now withdraw his motion, its irregularity
consisting, as he understood, in the fact of its referring
to something which had taken place in a former debate.
Mr. HERRIES hoped the House wauld, as he was
in some degree personally concerned in this motion,
allow him to say a few words, not on his own account,
but on account of other persons who were
plicated in that motion.—( Hear, hear.) Every
one who had seen that notice of motion, could
form their own judgment as to its propriety.

If he alone were concerned he would not ask the House
to listen to him for one single moment ; but there were
some persons concerned, in behalf of whom he felt it
his duty to beg permission to state a few words.
He wished to advert to those gentlemen who had
been alluded to in the notice as being the authorities at
the Post-office from which he derived his information ;
all those gentlemen had ch ►racters which it was of the
greatest importance for them to uphold, not only in
society, but in the cffices to which they were attached.
Mr. WALLACE here rose to order. •

Mr. HERRIES proceeded to say that it was per-
fectly within the rules and orders of the House that
any Gentleman might ask to be heard on any question,
and it was within the power of the House,
if it were its pleasure, to hear him at any time, or on
any occasion. If it were not the pleasure of the
House to listen to his explanation, he should not ask to
address them. He wished to address them on behalf
of those persons on whom a reflection had been cast
by implication in the notice of the Honourable
Member for Greenock.—( Hear.) He wished to say
that none of those persons who were engaged in the
Post-office, from Lord Lichfield and Colonel Moberly,
down to the very lowest person employed there, bad any
communication with him direct or indirect on the subject
in question. He declared on his honour as a gentleman,
that he had not received from any of those persons any
sort of intimation on what had been referred to as to
what was going on in the Post-office. That was his
statement, and he made it in order to discharge what
he believed to be upright, honourable, and faithful ser-
vants from any suspicion of having violated their duties,
or from any imputation which might be injurious to
them, inasmuch as it might sow distrust between those
parties and those who were at the effice.—( Hear.)
Mr. WALLACE said he was exceedingly gratified
by the statements of the Right Hon. Gentleman oppo-
site. The Hon. Gentleman was proceeding to offer
some observations on his notice, when
The SPEAKER rose to order, and said he thought
it his duty to interfere on this occasion, becaus he
was sure that if the Hon. Gentleman went on he
would transgress one of the rules of the House. He
should say that, when he had received notice of the

lion. Gcntletnan's motion, he had intimated to him
that it was irregular, and that he should withdraw it.
He felt that if he now persevered in the observations
he was making., he would be acting out of order.
Mr. WALLACE—Then I beg to say that having
heard the statement of the Right lion. Mcmber, I am
quite ready to credit it—(Hear, hear)—and should be
sorry to give rise to any imputation on the officers of
the Post-office.—(Hear, hear.)
MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS (IRELAND).

Mr. Sergeant JACKSON gave notice that in Com-
mittee on the Municipal Corporation Bid (Ireland )
he should move a clause giving the municipal fran-
chise to all persons exercising' tho Parliamentary.
Mr. HUME gave notice for' Thursday, that ho
would move for returns of the Legacy Duty received
last year.
MILITARY AND NAVAL ASYLUM
SCHOOLS.

Mr. LANGDALE gave notice that he would on
Thursdly move an Address to her Majesty, praying
that her Maj sty would be graciously pleased to
direct the Commissioners of the Asylum Schools at
Greenwich, Chelsea, and Southampton to make such
regulations as would confer, upon the children
alike of Catholics 'and of Protestants, the benefit
of such institutions without prejudice to their religious
principles.
Mr. WALLACE begged to ask the Lord Advo-
cate whether (as had been stated in a petition pre-
sented that evening) he had received instructions to
prepare a Declaratory Act to put an end to the diffe-
rences now prevailing between the Scotch Church and
the civil power ?

The LORD ADVOCATE said he was not aware
on that authority that htatf.ment had been made. He
had received no such instructions. At the same time
the subject was well worthy of attention, and the
Government had it under their consideration.
ADDRESS OF CONGRATULATION TO
THE QUEEN.

Lnrd JOHN RUSSELL stated to the House that
her Majesty, hating been waited upon, pursuant to a
resolution of that House on Frid ty last, hid com-
manded him to acquaint the House that her Majesty
would receive the Address of the House of Commons
to-morrow. at half-past two o'clock.

The SPEAKER said, perhaps it would be conve-
nient to state that be would take the Chair at a Quar-
ter to Two o'Clock to-morrow.
THE RAJAH OF SATTARA.

Mr. HUME begged to ask whether the dethrone-
ment of Sattara had actually taken place, or whether
her Majesty's Government had confirmed the proceed-
ings Which had taken place at Bombay; and if so,
vlictlier there was any objection to lay on the table such
documents as would fully explain the proceedings ?
Sir JOHN HOBHOUSE said that no decision had

been come to with respect to the deposition of the Rajah
of Sattara. In a matter of so much importance they
were anxious to have the assistance of the East India
Company. Tie had not the least objection to assure his
Hon. Friend that as soon as some decision had been
come to he would lay all the papers connected wi:h
the subject on the table.
CHINA.

Sir JAMES GRA hI A M gave notice that to-morrow
he would ask the Noble Lord (the Secretary for the
Colonies) when he would name a day on which the pro-
mised papers respecting the recent occurrences in
China would he laid on the table.—(llear, hear.)
THE SCITA II OF PERSIA.

The RIGHT HoN. GBNTLDIJAN then gave notice
that he should also ask the Noble Lord whether the
Government was prepared to give an account of the
progres3 they bad made in pursuance of the assuran-
ces that had been held out for the restoration of their
amicable relations with the Schah of Persia.
HARBOURS OF REFUGE.

Mr. M'K.IN NON begged to ask the Secretary of
the Admiralty, having been requested to do s 9 by several
engineers, whether lhe Commissioners appointed to exa-
mine and report respecting Ihrbours of Refuge on the
south-eastern parts of the isiand had made any report,
and also whether the Commissioners had taken into
consideration the disadvantages of backwater, whereby
those harbours would be rendered of no use?
Mr. MORE OTERRALL said the Commissioners
had made no report as yet. Their attention had been
directed to the subject, bu.: not to the particular point
to which the lion. Member referred to ; but as it was
one of importance. he had no doubt it would receive
their best attention.