The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-19 00:00:00

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and again I say that I do not contemplate office upon a
departure from those principles respecting the Corn-laws.--
Vehement cheers from the Opposition.) Do you ask me then,
hoar is it possible for me to consent to the relaxation of the
restrictions upon commerce, and yet to retain the Corn-laws.—
par, hear.) Do you, 'who appeal to the opinions of Mr.
Huskisson, and who think his authority is all-conclusive upon
these subjects, allow me to remind you that the relaxation of
restrictions upon trade was made by Mr. Huskisson at a time
when those Corn-laws existed—(Cheer3)—and when those
Corn-laws were maintained by Mr. Huskisson?—(Renewed
cheering.) An Hon. Gentleman has quoted, in the course of
the night, opinions which he supposes to have been
expressed by Mr. Huskisson some time after he lea office
and shortly before his lamented death. All that I know is
that whilst I was in official communication with Mr. Huskisson
I knew no man who was more opposed to a fixed duty or more
in favour of masntaining the sliding scale—( Hear, hear)---
and no man would more have scouted the idea
of introducing absolute principles of free trade.—( Hear, hear. )
I beg to read his opinion at the very time I refer to. He said,
in 1827, "it has been quoted against me that I held the opi-
nion that England ought not to depend too largely and too
frequently on other countries for the supply of corn."
I maintained those doctrines in 1815 and I maintain them
now. I think nothing could be so dangerous to this coun-
try as to be obliged to rely on foreign nations. Mr. Hus-
kisson says not only that he was an advocate for a gra-
duated scale but he claims the merit of being the author of
it. He said in the year 1827, " Being myself the party
who as a private Member of Parliament had proposed in
1814 a graduated scale of prohibitory duties, which was
afterwards perfected by the wisdom and experience of Lord
Liverpool, it is not likely that I should recommend a prin-
ciple utterly inconsistent with that scale." In the veer 1828
Huskisson used these words :—" The Hon. Gentleman
has spoken in favour of a fixed duty ; assuredly that might
look well enough, but when they regarded the circumstances
of the country and the wants of the people, they would see
the impossibility of adopting such a principle. It' a high per-
manent duty were imposed, then in a period of soarer}', the
Poor would be exposed to extreme suffering and misery which
the borne grower could not relieve, while the agriculturist
received a compensation of a high rate of duty when corn was
at a low price. While they were legislating on this sub-
ject they were hound to look to the different and va-
eircumstancea of the country, and the wants and necessities
of its inhabitants. A fixed duty was therefore out of the
question."—( Cheers from the Opposition benches.) That
Was the opinion of Mr. Huskisson in the year 1828, only twq
pars before the termination of his useful career ; arid after
ne had perfected those improvements in our commercial code,
to which the Noble Lord had referred in terms of such well-
Merited praise. The Noble Lord, however, is now about to
advocate a different course, and 1 will offer him my opposition
because I do not think that a fixed duty can be permanently
Maintained. The Hon. Member for Marylebone says he sup-
ports the proposal, not on account of its own merits,
but of the perfect conviction that it is but a
3tepping-stune towards a tot al repeal. When this
Fxed duty is established, and when the Noble Lord shall
°Aye realized the plan which he entertains—when he admits
that his prineiple is to give a protection to agriculture,
to which he thinks it fairly entitled, and when he will
therefore lay a tax upon foreign corn—when he does this,
suppose the Noble Lord's fixed duty should be assailed by
the arguments by which the graduated scale is now as-
tailed. Suppose the Hon. Member for Finbury should come
down with details of individual suffering, and suppose the
'nun. Member for Wolverhampton should detail similar cases
taf severe privation and distress—suppose the cry against the
" bread-tax," be again raised—suppose the Noble Lord be met
by those illegitimate instruments 'of warfare by which he has
been met, but for the use of which he has set the example.—
(Lotrod Opposition cheers.) Suppose this were the case let me
ask the Noble Lord what are the grounds of his confidence
that he will be able to maintain a fixed duty ? Sup-
pose' torn were to attain the price of 80s. will the
fixed duty be enforced ? Suppose on the other hand that there
was an abundant supply of corn in this country, and—suppose
the same season was favourable to the different nations of Eu-
rope, and suppose that in addition to our own supply—more
tha,n sufficient of our consumption—there was in consequence
of the low price on the• Continent, and in conse-
quence of the necessity of disposing of it at any rate,
a grev.t influx of cern from foreign parts—then did not the
Noble Lord think that that influx would have a discouraging
effect 'un British agriculture?—( Hear, hear.) Has the Noble
Lord w ell considered what would be he consequence of a fixed
duty as regarded the interests of the agriculture of this country?
For my part, I cannot help thinking that the fixed duty pro-
Posed by the Government would be found totally insufficient to
strait: Min the present state of the agricultural prosperity of
Englrind. Ido not wish to enter at any length into this sub-
ject. I should have been perfectly content to discuss the sugar
duties .on its own merits, and I will not enter further upon the
consideration of the subject of the Corn-laws. When that
question comes before the House I will enter into the details
of it. But I think the House will feel that after the
Challenge addressed to me I could not avoid saying
What 'were my opinions respecting the Corn-laws. But it will
be said there is another subject that is mentioned in the
country ; and we are asked what we propose with respect to
the timber duty. Why, I say frankly to the Noble Lord that I
reserve to myself the unfettered right of deciding upon that
question ; and I will ask the Noble Lord before I con-
sider ehe timber duties to give me the benefit of that informa-
tion which he possesses, and whirls he has derived from the
Governor-General of Canada.—(Opposition cheers.) You
ask us, the Opposition, to make a peremptory, positive decla-
ration on the subject. Now I will, for the purpose of prevent-
ing you from charging me with a wilful concealment of my
opinions, and in order that I may gain a subsequent advantage
by acting on them. I will, so far as I can, declare my sentiments
on the question on which you challenge me to express them,
I have told you my opinion with respect to the sugar duty and
with respect to the corn duty. You now ask me for apositive
opinion
with respect to the timber duty; but how is it possible
that any rational man can pronounce an opinion on the subject
without having an opportunity of considering it, not merely in
its financial and commercial, but also in its political bearings?
Does the Noble Lord himself apply the principle of free trade
to the timber duties ; and on reading the report of
1836 did he come down to the House to pro-
pose an alteration in those duties ? No, the Noble
Isord took the advantage which his office gave him—he
i'''nsie'ered that there was a great political crisis in Canada—
e looked to the state of that country, and the great experi-
°lent imu are making there for the union of the two provinces,
1,113 d tl ie introduction of a representative Government, before
took any step whatever in the matter.—( Hear, hear.)
41e doubtless considered the excitement and party spirit in-
eident to the elections in Canada, he no doubt considered
the relations between this country and the United States,
he no doubt recollected that the United States was the nets.
9eirhbour of Canada, lie recollected the arrest of APLeod, and
the unsettled state of the question relating to the Boundaries
°f tl re United States. The Noble Lord said before I can
dohs to the question of these timber duties 1 must consider
thp ropriety of keeping the public mind in Canada at ease on
fle s übject; I must not unnecessarily add to the excitem nt
in that country : and what did the Noble Lord do ? Why, in-
stead of coming down to debate the question on the prin-
ciple's, of free trade, he writes to the Governor of Canada, a
forth er colleague of his own, a Nobleman in the full confidence
of the Government, to ask his opinion as to the propriety of propos-
lug any alterations In the timber duties. And what is all the inform-
ation which the Noble Lord has given us on the subject ? What
'° the information on which he thinks it right to call upon me to
neelaire my opinions on the subject ? His Noble Friend the Go_
Verner of the Canadas had said, as might naturally be expected,
That " if they touched the question of the timber duties, it would
iskid rnoterially to the difficulties of his situation."—(Cheers.) I
`Zii.eve I quote the Noble Lord correctly.—(Cheers.) And this is
the information on which I am called on to declare my opinion at
4 titre when the papers state, I trust untruly, for I have shared in
supported the measure for the union of the Canadas, and I will
i'°l shrink from my share of the responsibility : and therefore I
It that thepapers untruly state that the result of the elections
i7re has been to give only a narrow majority in favour of the
hk kn. In such a case as this I should say in the words of Lord
(bonrne, " That man most be a madman who woule
exclude political considerations from such a question."—
ooh Lets.) And if the Governor of Canada. a Nobleman high in
your confidence, tells you that to touch the timber duties would add
materially to the difficulties of his situation, reserving to myself
he run, free, and unfettered right to discuss hereafter the question
o
t 're timber duties, I tell you, when you require to know my
°Pinl'on on the subject, that I require to know all the information
Sit the subject which you possess, before I can give a decided opi-
nion on the subject.—(Cheers.) But the Governor of Canada says
'note, he says there is another measure which I proposed simulta-
neousily with the alteration in the timber duties, may have the
effect of obviating many of those difficulties, and of reconciling
the Put she mind in Canada to the proposed alterations. .Now, what
is that measure-- (Loud cheers)—what is that measure which
it is necessary to adopt to quiet the public mind in Canada 2—(ln_
creased cheering.) Not the slightest intimation has the Noble
Lord given of what that measure is, but with merely a statement
that ttoa touching the tirnber..cluties will add materially to the diffi.
culties of the Governor of Canada, and with an intimation that there
as some other measure which, if proposed simultaneously with, it
array set the public of Canada at ease on the subject_ lam called
upon to state my opinion on the question of the 'Timber Duties.
lir answer is, that reserving to myself the full and perfect right of
Unfettered action with regard to the Timber Duties, I will not
stir one step until I am in full possession of all the information you
Possess, and have frilly considered all the political considerations
connected with the subject--(Cheers.) So much for commercial
`distress, and for the remedies which are proposed for its relief. But
tin addition to a great commercial crisis, it is said there is a great
,hancial crisis also. There is a great financial crisis, and for
thr t great financial crisis,' in my opinion, you are mainly responsi-
ble,_(Loud opposition cheers.) You have had possession of power
ainee 1832, you have since that time had the admi
laistration of the country. You refer to your successes
With triumph as proofs of your wisdom and sagacity. Ido riot
slay that failure is a proof of the want of those qualities, but I do
lay, that from she first the whole course of the Government has
been marked by a deficiency in the revenue, with an increase in the
, expenditure. That uniform course of failure greatly diminishes
'to soy confidence in the success of your financial propositions.—
(Loud Opposition cheers.) For the last five years you have been
going on with an annually increasing deficiency, which has
amounted at last to 7,500,0001. That has been the result of your
financial administration ; and instead of finding, as I expected, you
°ukl come down to this House with a confession of your own
kt..eaPacity—(Clicers)—and maladminioration—(lmmense cheer_
ink' from the Opposition)—you represent yourselves as mar.
tYrt to free trade, and call upon me to furnish you with
a Budget.—(Loud:Opposition cheers.) lam not surprised at your
Confidence in me—(Continued cheering)—when you recollect that
before I left office in 1830, the Administration with which I was
connected had, during the period of their management of the fin
aneeo reduced the public debt by the amount of twenty millions of
the capital of the debt—(Cheers)—reduced the charges on the debt
for interest annually by one million—(Continued cheers)—and left
surplus of 2,400,0001. of revenue over expenditure.—(Long
lvtieoanvteinued cheering) How much will the Right Hon. Gentleman
?—(Cheers.) [The Chancellor of the Exchequer, when the
cheering had subsided, said, in a quiet conversational tone, across
the table," the Right Hon. Gentlemen has not left yet." This
Sally,_u which seemed quite to take Sir Robert Peel by surprise, pro.
eluted a loud burst of laughter. The Right Hoi ourable Baronet,
_lien the Laughter had somewhat subsided continued as fol,ows :-3
owever after the reduction of twenty millions of capital, of
nnual charge of interest after the remission of taxes, we had
,u
ntrived to leave a surplus. I state it at the lowest, as
,v 600,000/., and recollect with all the difficulties of an un-
urrneo parliament.—(Cheers.) You lave had your own way for
' five years—you have had the benefit of cheap
l Government.
--( Hear, hear.) You have had that superior advantage—you
have •
. got cheap government—you have had the Admistration
'now for ten years. While you had
these illiberal colleagues
11 h You g
Lind a surplus of revenue!got rid o f them in 18:34,
and the moment you were disembarrassed of
your own free will and free way, from that them,
m that youn haand.
mending cheap government, and the aid of a
Reformedomct ""
Itariia.
trent, from that moment your difficulties began to encompass
every year presented a deficit, and 'come with your deficit of 7,500,0001., and then( clamour, mowan after3.ou
man, upon us to favour you with a budget. —(Loud (Ler(si.i)eneli:yoeud
recollect, no doubt, the aid I gave you on- J•
—when I rescued you from the consequences of your own
evil ways—(lmmense cheering)—when I enabled ycu to r
Pular representative Government—when I prevented you from P°-
tbrarle & the foundations of society in every other colony
baste
of popular and representative rights—when you weyrewciMni
eued to take my advice--and when you afterwards bad the moot:-
_cohusoma:liroirt.....that you heartily rejoiced that you had met with such
Lbig t be tempted to
If the circumstances were the same
give you similar advice. I confess I view with
k4int will) iympathy, the position of the Chancellor of the Excllie'

, quer. It is said that to see a goad man struggling with adversity is
a sight worthy of the Geds,--(Laughter.) lam sure that the Right
Hon. Gentleman, both in respect to the goodness of the man, and
undoubtedly in respect to the adversity of his position, presents
that spectacle to the Gods.—(Continued laughter.) Sir, I cannot
conceive a more lamentable proceeding than to see the Hon. Gen.
tleman, to see the Chancellor of the Exchequer, seated on an
empty chest by the side of bottomless deficiencies, fishing for a
budget.—(Roars of laughter.) I won't bite.—(Renewed laughter.)
I'll leave the Right Hon. Gentleman to return home with his
punier as empty as his chest. And I reiuse my aid upon this
ground, that I cannot conceive anything more utterly unfitting,
which would really incapacitate me for the possession of public con.
fidence, as if I, out of office,
without the means of collecting in.
formation in this financial crisis, were to offer my budget in com-
petition with yours.—(Cheers from the Opposition benches.)
What is the nature of the budget which lam to propose ? What
should I avow ? The Right Hon. Gentleman paid me the compli.
went of believing, that when I spoke, I should not relieve
public expectation upon that point. The Right Honourable
Gentleman knew that no man, not being a Chancellor of the
Exchequer, not having access to official information, would commit
his character by a precipitate declaration as to the best mode of re-
lieving the finances of this country.—(Hear, hear.) There may
have been some young Member silly enough to suppose that I
would whisper something about a property tax or the revival of the i
additional postage. I intend completely to disapprove t.—
(Cheers.) I freely avow that I bring forward no rival project. I
consider the vote to-night as a question of confidence--(Tre-
mendous cheers from the Opposition beaches)—and I will not
seek confidence by raising the expectation that I will bring for-
ward plans for the alleviation of the distresses of this country or
encourage the expectation of relief. Sir, an Honourable Gentle.
man opposite has quoted from a speech of Mr. Huskisson. I find
that in 1830 Mr. Huskisson was upon this point of the same opinion
as myself. He said, " Being in opposition when my Right Hon.
Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer opened, as it was his duty
to do, and I trust no other person will ever presume to do, the
budget for the year." Those were the opinions of Mr. Hus-
kisson, and in the correctness of those opinions I entirely
concur.— (Cheers.) I therefore, Sir, do not want to attach
public confidence by any professions upon the subject of finan-
cial difficulties; and I say this, that were I in office I would not
71 am obliged to discuss this. The Right Hon. Gentleman the

Member for Lambeth has said, " Don't cover yourself under the
solemn plausibility that you are not in office when the House
has a fair right to demand from those who are competitors for
power what they intend and what they will do." Be it so—no man
has a right to presume that he is to be entrusted with the power
of his Sovereign; it seems to me presumptuous to anticipate
such an event ; but you challenge me to state hypothetically
what are my intentions, and I say that .if I were in office to-
morrow, my first step would be to demand the confidence of the
House otCommons, and to ask that I might not be required to take any

sudden or precipitate step.—(Cheers from the Opposition benches.)
I would say I have been excluded during ten years from office.
You have created a large deficiency, to the amount of 7,000,0001.
I cannot now say what my measures will be. This I will promise

you, but that must be alt, I will give a most careful conside'

ration to the circumstances of the country, but that my decided
opinion is that a deficit during peace is to be deprecated as an
intolerable evil. I wilt make some effort to equalise the income
:Ind the expenditure, but while I avow that I would ask for a de-
monstration of confidence from the House of Commons, I would
ask them to consider the position of the country, and try to find out
the best mode of applying relief.—(Loud cheers.) And I say it

would be encouraging false hopes and expectations, if I were to
give any opinion as to whether a property tax would be a more
preferable mode of raising the revenue than a reduction of duty, a
revision of the Import tarifF. Indeed, the Right Hon. Gentleman
opposite might well say to me were Ito do so—l expected that you
had teo much good sense to have been guilty of that presumption.
Sir, my belief is, that I cannot assign any particular case in which
the present difficulties ought to be met. I know that you have
had great demands made upon you. There was China, last year—
I do not want to mix up the enlarged question of foreign policy
with-to-night's debate; but I know you have been called upon in
Canada, and other instances, to incur large expenses; but after
snaking all these allownances, still, notwithstanding all these
things, you arc the responsible parties. It has been through your
general mismanagement that these evils have arisen, and you must
be responsible. Ido not want—l hope I have not, spoken with
the slightest disrespect of any one of the Ministers of the Crown.
I admit their ability, I respect their character. It is not from want
of ability in your departments; in my opinion these evils
have arisen, because, as a Government, you have been
acting in violation of the spirit of the Constitution—

(Tremendous cheering)—in retaining power when you were not
possessed of that degree of public confidence which enabled you to
execute the measures you proposed. Sir, I think it is dangerous
to the public interests, and so do you yourselves. You have
written your own condemnation on this subject. You retired
when you had a bare majority on the Jamaica question, distinctly
on the ground that you thought the confidence of the colonists
would be shaken in you by the narrow majority you then main-
tained. When I retired in 1835, upon the proof that I had not
the confidence of the House of Commons,—having persevered as
long as I could,—you told me that I had acted in the spirit of the.
Constitution.—(Loud cheers.) In 1839 the head of the Govern-
ment, after quoting the explanation of King William to Bishop
Burnett, in which he said that he had heard of many debates about
tha best form of Government, whether democracy, aristocracy,
or monarchy, he did not know; but this he did know, that the
worst form of Goverdme nt was a monarchy that was unable to
give effect to the laws necessary to the public welfare. Apply-
ing that principle, Lord Melbourne said he did not
know what was the best Government, but undoubtedly the worst
for the country was that which did not possess sufficient of the pub-
lic confidence to enable it to carry its own measures into laws.
Sir, it is my opinion that these evils have mainly arisen, not from
the want of individual ability in her Majesty's Ministers--they
have arisen from the course that you have been trying, with great
dexterity I admit, to carry on the Government in violation of the
spirit of a Representative Government.—(Loud cheers.) We say
it is not for the interests of a Representative Government, or of
Constitutional principle, that these things should continue—we
think it is not right that the House of Commons should be ex-
hibited to Europe as withholding its confidence from a Govern-
nt, and yet take no steps for removing them. We think that
it is not for the best interests of the Monarchy—(Loud cheers)—
that you cannot carry those measures which you, as faithful
servants of the Crown, recommended to the House.

It is not fair to the measures themselves, because they lose
the grace and favour in the public eye if they are
believed to spring not from the well-formed pure con.
victions of your own minds, but that they are pro-
positions made to prop (up your falling fortunes—(Hear, hear,
and cheers)—and to conciliate the good-will of a party. It is
not, believe me, an honour to your characters as public men. You
have made these great proposals, but the public—l do not mean
the men to whose passions you have appealed, or those whose dis.
tresses you have painted—but it has been described by the well
judging majority of the public, as their belief, that you have pro.
posed these measures without the slightest hope of carrying them.
I lament the course the Noble Lord has taken. I lament his con-
trast between the condition of the negro and the working classes
in this country. I lament the appeal he made to the state of
the population. The same appeal was made against himself when
he pi oposed grants of public money on the Poorelaws, the Noble Lord
was obstructed in the same manner, and if he now succeeds in carrying
a f.xed duty, he must expect to be interfered with in the same way.
—(Cheers.) Ido not deny the power of the people.—(Cheers.) I
do not deny that you will by such appeals, considering the situation
in which you stand, give them an overwhelming power.—(Cheers.)
You may easily provoke the conflict. You can easily raise excited
passions against what you call class.interests.—(Continued cheers.)
It is possible amid the conflict of passion, it is possible that you
may be able to gather up the fragments and combine the elements
of increased party strength—(Cheers)—but, depend upon it, such
elements of strength are unruly and uncontrollable instruments of
Government.—(Cheers.) Depend upon it you will read this lesson
to the country, that when authority condescends to support itself
by alliance with agitation—(Great cheering)—it calls into aid—to
its assistance—a powerful ally, which will be its master, but not its
slave. (The Right Hon. Gentleman sat down amid the most en.
thusiastic cheering from the Conservative side of the House.)
Lord PALMERSTON—Mr. Speaker, the Right Hon. Baronet
the Member for Kent, in the short speech which he addressed to
the House this evening, expressed his regret at the duration of
the debate. Sir, that regret did not surprise me, because, un-
doubtedly, a debate favourable to one side of the House—(Loud
and general cheer.ng)—and attended, in point of argument, at
least (whatever may be the result), with the greatest triumph to
the other side, I have never had the honour to witness.—(Hear,
hear.) I can well understand, therefore, that the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet the Member for Kent may have regretted the protracted du-
ration of the debate ; and, notwithstanding the speech of the
Right Hon. Baronet who has just sat down, and although I am
ready to admit the great dexterity with which he handled
the various topics of which he treated, I don't think
that even that speech will induce his Right Honour-
able Friend to retract the regret he has expressed.—(Loud
laughter.) Sir, the the Right Honourable Baronet who has just sat
down was pleated to make himself exceedingly merry with what he
conceived to be the forlorn condition of my Right Hon. Friend the
Chancellor of the Exchequer fishing for a budget. Sir, my Right
Hon- Friend is fishing for no budget.—(Cheers and laughter.) My
Right Hon. Friend has caught his budget and has laid it on the
table—(Loud cheers)—my Right Hon. Friend does not go a
begging to the other side of the House for a budget. He has been
teproached on former occasions, and ridiculed to night for playing:a
part which would be utterly unworthy any Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer. My Right Hon. Friend has to deal with a deficiency in
the revenue—he has to bring forward a budget to supply that
deficiency, and it is with a full consciousness of his responsibility,
and of all those duties incumbent upon a Chancellor of the Ex.
chequer, that instead of coining down to the House and proposing
to increase the burthens of the people, he proposes to fill up the
deficiency by relieving them of a portion of the burthens.—(Cheers.)
The Right Hon. Baronet is mistaken in supposing we ask
him to get us a budget instead of our own.
What we stated was this, and to that he has
not in my opinion given us any answer; tell us, aye or no; we pro.

, . , .
pose to supply the deficiency by relieving the people of a part of
their burdens—by striking a blow at some of these great monopo-
lie6—(Loud cheering)--which have hitherto retarded the pros-
perity of the country. He would object, upon narrow and insuffi.

cient grounds, to the proposal. Tell us:plainly, aye or no, do you
approve of supplying the deficiency in the way :we propose, or are
you prepared to vote new taxes for that purpose ? (Cheers.) Sir,
that is the question which has been put to the other side of the
House, and to that we have had as yet no answer. The Right
Hon. Baronet stated that he would with the greatest frankness give

his opinion upon the three questions of corn, timber, and sugar;
but what were these answers ?—(Great cheering and laughter.)
What were these explanations, which were to be given with such

unreserved frankness ? Why, he throws overboard at the com-
mencement of Isis speech the principles and doctrines contained in

:ho resolution. He said that he should not, at least for the next

year, take any steps for the alteration of those duties—that he
should wait and see whether the increased production from
India should supply the deficiency, and that he should hold him.

self free for the future. Beyond the next year he would not commit
himself. What are unreserved opinions on the question of Corn ?
—(Hear, hear.) A preference of a sliding-scale over a fixed
duty; a sliding-scale may be a very slippery thing.— (Loud cheers.)

The Right Hon. Baronet took good care to avoid committing

himself, and, if I misunderstood him, I should be glad to he cor-
rected, but he guarded himself against declaring whether that
sliding-scale which he wished to slip into would be a scale mate.
rially diminishing or not the amount of protection which at present
exists.—(Hear, hear.) That was the gpestion which the House
was called upon to answer. Is he willing or not to supply the

deficiency in the revenue by admitting a large and more free inter-

course and trade by a change in the amount of the duty ? Then,
Sir, upon timber, he has made an equally unreserved and frank

declaration, for, if my ears did not deceive me, his frank declara-
tion seas, that on the timber duties he should keep himself totally
unfettered—( Great cheering)—until he knew that which was

known to my Ncble Friend—until he was put into the confidence
of the Governor-General of Canada it was impossible for him to
give an opinion upon the subject. I say then, Sir, that
I never remember a great question like the present

brought forward on one side of the House and debated

on such narrow and inadequate grounds. The question is whether
the great streams of industry shall be relieved from some of these
obstructions which have hitherto retarded their development, or
whether those streams shall continue to be choked up for the sake of
private interest or privileged classes.—(Much cheering.) The ques.
tion is between free trade--and by free trade I mean a trade open to
free competition—on the one hand, and monopoly on the other. The
question is between reason and prejudice—between the interests of
the many and the profits of the few--(Loud cheers.) Hon. Gen-
tlemen opposite have shrunk from the question, and do not dare to
grapple with it. They are afraid to join issue with us on the real
merits of the case, because they know the verdict of the country
would be against tbern.—(Much cheering.) They have endeavoured
to narrow down the question to one collateral point, arid upon pre-
tences entirely unfounded and delusive, to endeavour to entrap the
country into an erroneous decision.—(Cheers.) Some evidence
which has been used on this side of the House, and applied to the
resolution, has given offence. They do not like to be called hypo-
critical, but 1 say that is tire homage which monopoly is obliged to

Ipay to free trade; but se reluctant and constrained is it, that they
are not able fairly to assume 4 virtue they do not feel.—(Cheers.)
They have left themselves a loophole to escape in that notable pa-
renthesis which my Noble Friedd so ably exposed in the course of
his speech—they have left themselves a door to retreat from their
high position, and take post upon the low level of expediency.—
(Loud cheers.) The course they have pursued on this occasion
reminds me of that which their friends the Carlists pursued in the
civil wars of Spain. On more than one occasion did the
Carlist bands put forward a number of their helpless prisoners in
the front of the column to cover their attack in the same manner
that the Hors. Gentlemen opposite now put forward the sufferings of
the Africans. Sir, I shall forbear to inquirelew many of these who
have been loudest in the cry have had their share in these suf-
ferings—(Great cheering)—although undoubtedly things have
passed in the course of this debate that might tend to throw some
light on the subject.—(Hear.) I shall forbear to press the inquiry;
but they trust under that pretence to rush forward and scale the
fortress. Sir, I honour and respect principle—(Much laughter from
the Opposition Benches)—l admire the man even though in follow.
ing up this principle he should thwart and obstruct my path, but
let principle be the rule and not the exception—(Cheers)—let it be
the guide of conduct and the inspirer of actions, and not put forward
as a mere pretext. They are the principles of humanity—
but humanity, like charity, begins at home.— (Hear, hear.)
It is true there are millions of suffering Africans abroad, but are
there not also millions of our suffering countrymen at home, and
is it not right in adjudicating on this matter that some regard should
be paid to the interests of our countrymen, as well as of those so
remotely connected with us? But the principle is not to consume
the produce of slave labour. Well, Sir, admit that principle—that
is the principle of the Noble Lord who moved this resolution—it
is not so clearly the principle of the Right Hon. Baronet who
spoke last, because it was remarkable that one benefit has arisen to
the other side from the protraction of the debate, that they have
the evidence of what is passing in other places, and of the manner
in which the public viewed the subject; and I am not surprised,
therefore, that the principle with which they comn enced has been
in some degree allowed to pass from notice.—(Hear, hear.) That
principle is, not to consume that which is the labour of slaves.
Then if that is the principle, apply it honestly, carry it cut, pro-
hibit cotton, prohibit tobacco, prohibit rica, the produce of slave
lebuur.—(" Oh, oh," and cheers.) Gentlemen laugh at me
when 1 talk of such things. They shrink from
such an application of their principles.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
they say that it would ruin and distress millions of our fellow.
countrymen, that it is not expedient to carry their principles so
far. Then tne principle is a principle the application of which
is to depend upon comparative expediency.—(Hear, hear.)
They may think they have an answer to the argument—they
say it is one thing to submit to an evil which exists, but it is
another thing to create a new one. They say we now encourage
the labour of slaves in North America, but that is no reason why
we should encourage the labour of slaves in South America.
But do we not encourage the labour of slaves in South Amc.
rica ? Would that be a new evil ? Do we not send out
our commodities to the market of Brazil, and do we not receive
payment for those commodities in sugar and coffee ? Is it not a
fact, therefore, that we encourage the labour of slaves first of all
in North America to produce cotton, which we then export to
South America to set the slaves then at work to produce sugar in
exchange for it ? It is worth while to attend to the different stages
of their transactions. We say to the Brazilians, " Here is a
quantity of good cotton, cheaper and better than you can get else-
where, will you buy it 2" The answer is "Certainly, and pay for
it in sugar and coffee." We reply "No ; sugar and coffee are the
produce of slave labour, we are men of principle, our consciences
will not allow us to consume slave produce."—(Hear, hear.) Does
the transaction end there—do we go to other markets ? Not so, we
try to help them out of their difficulties. We say, "We can't
consume the sugar and coffee ourselves, but the Germans are not
so conscientious as we are; take your commodities to Germany, and
sell it for money, which we shall have 710 scruple to accept"—
(Cheers and laughter.) But the Brazilians say, " There is a diffi-
culty;these Germans reside across the Atlantic ; we have few ships
that could cope with the waves on such a voyage." What do we
do ? Why, we say, " We have ships in plenty, and will carry it
for you."—(Laughter.) Slave labour must not contaminate our
plates or tables, but ships are different things. Then the Brazilians
have another difficulty, for there is no end to these difficulties,
They say, " The Germans like sugar, but we believe they use re-
fined sugar, and we cannot well refine our own sugar." Then we
step in again and say, "We will refine your sugar for you—
(Laughter)—it may be sinful to use slave labour sugar, but it can-
not be sinful to refine it." We refine it and it goes to Geimany,
and we think it is done with, but not so. We have a great
deal of sugar, more than the Germans want, what
shall we do with the rest ? We have assisted you
so far but we cannot eat it ourselves, that is against our consci-
ences but we will send it to our colonies, the people there are only
colonists, and have no right to consciences—(Cheers and laughter)
—it can do them no harm whatever to eat slave labour sugar, and
in order to prevent any other difficulty if by any accident sugar gets
dear in our markets we will eat your sugar ourselves."—(Cheers
and laughter.) Then I say is it not the grossest hypocrisy—
(Cheers)—to refuse an arrangement intended for the relief of our
commerce and the assistance of our finances on a pretence so weak
and inconsistent ?—(Cheers.) Well, but then it is said, "We will
not encourage the slave trade." Now I can only encou-
rage the sieve trade as far as I give additional encou-
ragement to slave labour. The matter: which I have la-
boured with the greatest anxiety, and with not the least success,
during the period that I have had the honour to conduct
the foreign affairs of this country, has been the suppression of
the slave trade —(Cheers.) Sir, that suppression is to be effected
in two ways—first, by treaties, which would enable us to put in
action measures for the purpose; and, secondly, by those mea-
sures which foreign Governments may adopt, either at their own
suggestion, or on account of treaties concluded with us. Now, I
contend that this measure will materially assist us in both these
respects. I will show tire House how, when we came
into office, in 1830, we found the slave trade car.
ried on to a great extent under many flags, notwithstanding
that treaties had been concluded with many Powers, especially by
Spain and Portugal, notwithstanding the declaration of the Congress
of Vienna, which cannot be mentioned with too much honour.
But these Treaties with Spain and Portugal were insufficient for
the purpose, n ince they only involved the suppression of the slave
trade to the :;orth of the Line.—(Hear, hear.) The first thing
we did was to obtain from France, a Power with which there was no
treaty on tire subject—a treaty giving a mutual right of search
to both countries, and when you remember how the national mind
had been effected by the proceedings of the war, and how calculated
such a measure was to excite distrustful feelings in both countries,
they will sea that there must have been sincerity on boils sides to
enter into such a treaty.—(Hear, hear.) That put an end to the
slave trade with France.—(Cheers.) We thus obtained from France
more:complete engagements to abolish the trade; arid I say that lithe
Governors of the Spanish colonies had fulfilled the engagements of
the Spanish Crown, the slave trade with Cuba would have been
put an end to.—(Cheers.) But while we have these, treaties will
never be of any use for the suppression of the slave trade, until
we have a treaty with :every State in the world.—(Cheers.)
We have now treaties concluded and ratified with France, Spain,
Portugal, the Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, the Hans Towns,
Sardinia, and Tuscany in Europe, and with Brazil, Venezuela.
Buenos Ayres, and Hayti, in America. We have an additional
treaty concluded, but not yet ratified with the Brazils, Chili,
Monte Video, Mexico, and Texas. We are negotiating a treaty,
the signature to which is only delayed by circumstances uncon-
nected with it, and arising out of late events which is
to be concluded between England, France, Austria,
Russia, and Prussia, founded on thej treaty which
was concluded with France. I have the best reason for be-
lieving that when that Treaty will be concluded, the adhesion of
Belgium and Hanover will not be delayed. We have recently '
prevailed on Government to pass a law prohibiting the slave-trade,
carried on by Greek ships in the Mediterranean. When that shall
be done, we shall have engaged every state in Europe, or rather
in Christendom, in the Christian league of Anti-Slavery.—
(Ministerial cheers.) We are negociating, moreover, with an-,
other State in America, and if we succeed in these negociatioh a
which I have every reason to hope we shall, there will then re.
main of all the States in Christendom oniy the Untted States of
America, which wiil not engage in the sacred league, for the sup-
pression of slavery and the slave-trade, and I cannot believe that
the American people descended as they aoe from the same ances-
tors as ourselves, and receiving from them the same principles of
liberty and common religion. I cannot, I say, bring myself to be.
lieve that the United States will permit themselves to be
the only state in Christendom to remain out of that sacred league.
They have hitherto been deterred from joining this league by the
right of search. I trust, however, they will 'not allow themselves
to be carried away, and that they will investigate the nature of the
question. I think then we may assert that our conduct proves
that we feel no indifference towards the slave.trade, We are not
the men who, in order to save themselves from temporary difficul-
ties, would sacrifice the principle and object for whirls we have
toiled ourselves Ilke slaves since we have had the charge of Go-
vernment. (Cheers from the Ministerial benches.) But, Sir,
then I say by these measures, we shall attain additional facili.
ties for indecing other powers to enforce those regu.
lations which are enacted against the slave bade.
What is the case with Cuba and Brazil? In both these countries,
if the authority of the law were enforced, slavery would have been
put an end to. But why do they not enforce those laws? It is
because they distrust us. They cannot believe in our sincerity.
They say on the one hand, that we shut our markets against foreign
produce. They cannot believe that for the, sake of humanity we
mean to put down slavery. They think that we were actuated by
a jealous rivalry in commerce, and I am afraid that the debates of
of the last fortnight (for they have now lasted nearly that time)
will not tend to undeceice them in that respect. For whereas we
told our colonists when proceeding to emancipate the slaves
in our colonies that free labour was more advantageous than
slave labour—we told them the truth—in spite of the; experiment
which is now being tried, I say nothing has occurred which can
shake the truth and justice of that assertion, but what has been
said in this debate by tine Hon. Member for Cambridge. That
Hon. Gentleman said he opposed the measure now proposed by her
Majesty's Government, because his very existence, as far as his
West India interest was concerned, would be destroyed by tho
motion being carried.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.) The argu-
ment was, that it was impossible to compete with the
Brazil slave-grown sugar. What was the Hon. Member in say-
ing this but teaching them that we had told them an un-
truth—that we have been endeavouring to palm upon them the
aholition of the slave trade under false pretences, knowing that
slave labour was cheaper ? Convince them by your actions that
your doctrines are sincere. Convince them that you believe and
know that free labour is cheaper than slave labour, by admitting
tine produce of the colonies to a fair competition—if I cams call
that a fair competition which gives an advantage of fifty per ccnt.
to colonial over foreign produce. Prove to them, I say, that
you are sincere in your principles by admitting them to at
least some competition.—( Hear, hear, and loud cheers.)
I believe that if the measures proposed by the Government were
carried, if I could prove that there was no commercial hostility or
rivalry between this and other nations, and that we really enter-
tained a belief, and proved it by our conduct, that the produce of
free labour was at least as advantageous as the labour of slaves,
then I am satisfied that I should enter into negotiations with
foreign powers with a better chance of persuading them, to give
effect to the laws for the suppression of slavery.—(Hear, hear.) It
is only from England that the hope of extinguishing slavery or the
slave trade cars be desired, because we are the only people who take
any sincere intere; t in:the matter. England at present holds a proud
position among the nations of the earth. sWe claim, and we exercise
a mighty influence over the destinies of mankind, that influence is
owing, in the first place, to our wealth and unbounded resources,
to our military ar.d naval strength ; but it is owing, if possible,
still more to the moral dignity which marks the character and
conduct of the British people.—(Cheers.) I fear that the resolu-
tion of the Noble Lord the Member for Liverpool tends to destroy,
or Impair at least, the sources of our strength, because I cannot
but believe that the respect which foreign nations have hitherto
entertained for the sincerity, the plain-dealfng, and straigh for-
wardness of the English character must be diminished if they see
the House of Commons adopting a resolution in which the princi-
ples of morality, humanity, and plainelealing, are, I am sorry to
say, so prostituted to serve the purposes orparty.— (Cheers.) I regret
to think that we will sap the foundations of our greatness if we en-
deavour, by continuation of our restrictive and prohibitory regula-
tions, those great commercial and manalacturing interests
which are the mainsprings of our power. I say, then, that
those who wish the principles of liberty to thrive and prosper
—ought to cherish with an almost religious veneration the domi-
nion of Great Britain, for so long as England rides pre-eminent,
as she now does, over the ocean of human greatness, there is for.
tunately no power which can be shipwrecked so desperate and for-
lorn, that it may not turn with hope to the light which beams from
hence.—(Loud cheers.) They might be beyond the immediate
reach of our assistance, but our moral influence and our sym-
pathies would support them in the hour of distress, enabling them
to bear up with their difficulties, and to look forward to a better
fate. But if ever by the faults or errors of misguided men England
should fall, and her star lose its lustre, the hope of the slave,
whether in 'the African continent, or in the wide regions
of America, would be reduced to comparative despair.—(Cheers.)
I know very well that in that case Providence would raise
up some other nation to inherit our principles and imitate our ex-
ample; but when I look at the other States of the earth, as they are
constituted at present—and I say it With regret, but with the con.