The Sun.
London, England, 1841-08-27 00:00:00

ANTARCTIC DISCOVERItS.

Lord ASHLEY moved for copies of such extracts
from the despatch of Captain James Ross, from Van
Dieman's Land, as will show to the House the nature
and extent of the brilliant discoveries' hich are said to
have been made in a high southern latitude by her Ma-
jesty's ships Erebus and Terron—Ordered.

On the motion of Mr. TUFNELL, Mr. Patrick Stew-
art was added to the Printing Committee.

ELECTION PETITIONS.

Petitions were presented against the returns for the
town of Belfast and the borough of Lewes. The peti-
tions were ordered to lie upon the table.

THE ADJOURNED DEBATE.
The Order of the Day having been read for resuming
the Adjourned Debate,
Lord SANDON rose and said, that he did
not rise for the purpose of . entering, at least
at any length, into those questions of economical
policy which form so large and prominent a portion
of the Speech put into the mouth of her Majesty, and
a still larger and more prominent portion of the speeches
of those who had preceded him in the debate. lie did
not think that in following such a course he should be
doing that which was the natural result of the course
of events passing around them, or that he should
be doing that which wmild meet the expectations
of those constituents which had sent them to that
House. However convenient it might be within the
walls of that House, or elsewhere, to represent the
' struggle which had just been concluded as a struggle
between monopoly and anti-monopoly—to state that
there was no other question at issue than whether
1 or not the measures brought forward by her Majesty's Go-
vernment under the shape and disguise of the Budget
were indeed approved of by the - people of this coati-
try—how ever convenient it might be to certain parties
to put the question in that shape ; yet such was not the
question which had in effect been tried before the
country, anti such was not the question on which they had
been commanded to decide.. Hesilid boldly that* was
not the question which the Government themselves
had intended to put, because the late dissolution
had not taken place upon the question of the sugar duties,
or the corn duties, or the timber duties. With regard
to the corn and timber duties, neither the one nor the other
had been brought under the consideration of the I louse of
Commons, and they could never have given a justifica-
tion for the late dissolution. With regard to the ques-
tion of sugar, he could not conceive that upon
that qeestion or the time or degree in which
'tlie prAteettoft nowm-iffrottett -"To-Othe colonial .i.—
terests might be affected, her Majesty's Govern-
ment were at all entitled to call for the assertion of
the feelings of the people by convening the Parliament.
The real question which had compelled her Majesty's Go-
vernment to appeal to the sense of the people was this—that
the last House of Commons did ,clearly and distinctly
vote their want of confidence in the Ministry, and that
was the real question- upon which the country had to
decide.—(Hear, from the Opposition benches.) That was
the admitted cause which drove her Miljesty's Ministers
to try the desperate chance of a dissolution. If the ques-
tion simply related to particular measures, the Govern-
ment had already had experier.-2e enough the
year before, and during the earlier part of the Session,
which would give them an excuse for trying a
dissolution, if they thought it would serve their pur-
poses. But it was not until they bad devised new expe-
dients for the purpose of diverting public attention
from the great question of their 'administrative policy,
which had produced so deep an impression on the public
mind. It was not until that House had expressed by its
vote its want of confidence in their management of affairs,
that they had recourse to a dissolution. He, there-
fore, thought that was the question which the country
had to answer ; and he could say for himself, that the
question upon which he had appealed to his own
constituents, was not simply whether the sugar of the
Brazils should be admitted at one time or another,
subject to one form or another of competition.
lle could assure them that lie did not appeal to his con-
stituents as to the particular mode of protec-
tion which should be afforded to domestic agri-
culture (Cheers) —he did not appeal to them
as to the protection to be given to colonial timber or the
mode of that protection—but the great question which
he submitted to his constituents was, whether or not the
country had confidence in theadministration ofaffairs byher
Majesty's Ministers, and whether, even if they agreed in
certain
.points of the commercial policy, they were pre-
pared, in consequence of that agreement, to give their
condonation for the past, and fresh licence for the future.
He had stated to them what he had stated to
that Housei• that if they agreed, which they did not,
on any one of those questions, they were not to be
induced by agreement on these points to sa-
crifice those greater interests which were involved.
in the question whether they should have one Admiiiis-
tration or the other. He had told them—and lie begged
the House to remember—that. feelings had been excited
within the country and the House by the con-
duct of Ministers ; on other points, on questions
of still higher importance, he had appealed to them,
whether they approved of their Irish Administration,
of their measures respecting the Church, with regard
to education, with regard to the distribution of
patronage, and of magisterial offices and honours, and on
all these questions, affecting more deeply the interests of
men than whether the mode of protection should be that
of a fixed duty or a sliding scale, or whether Bri-
tish sugar and colonial timber should be admitted at
one rate or another—on much greater questions than
these did he appeal to his constituents, and he received
not only a verdict but the highest expressions of ap.
probation.—(Cheers.) These were the grounds on which
the great majority of the Conservative party had been
returned to the House. The constituencies had
despised the bait held out the tub thrown
to the whale—and would not permit the real
issue to be withdrawn, and u feigned one sub-
stituted in its place. (Loud cheers.) The real
question at issue between the proposition of her Majesty's
Government and the Conservatives, was nob the question
of free trade one way • or the other. Between
the language of the Government and their
proposition there was a wide difference. Their
language was that of free trade, but they had
heard of little professions in any part of the em-
pire of adherence to the specific proposition
of the Government. The question was, so far as
it was a commercial question, whether there should
be protection to commercial industry or not.
The particular degree was not the question submitted
to the constituencies of England.—(Hear.) The
question had been distinctly put before them, " Have
you such confidence in her Majesty's Ministers for
the future as to be willing to entrust them with
the further administration of this country;" and
whether men agreed with the Government degree
of protection, or whether they differed, he believed
the constituences of England had been governed
by this great consideration, and it was to
this, their determination, the House was called
upon to give effect, otherwise they would betray
the principles they had professed and the interests
which had been confided to them.—(Hear, hear.)
With these views, he thought they were called on not
to go into detail on any of those questions that were
Submitted to them in the Queen's Speech, but to
carry. into effect the verdict which the consti-
tuencies of England have returned.—(Hear, hear.)
These were the short and simple grounds on which
he gave his support to the amendment. It was
not that he was indifferent to the question
which been introduced into • the discussion it was
not that he was indifferent to the sufferings of the popu-
lation of this country, or blind to the distress under
which it was now labouring in the commercial and ma-
nufacturing districts—but it was that he thought the
management of questions like those would be more
safely trusted to other hands than those of the
present Government. He believed that whenever the
questions at issue had been put fairly before the con-
stituencies, the feeling which had been expressed was that
they were neither satisfied with the details of
the proposed measures mr with the principles upon
which those measures were founded. He did not
mean to say that in sending him to Parliament the con-
stituency which he had the honour to represent had
declared that they preferred a sliding scale
to a fixed duty on corn ; but he believed that they had
distinctly stated that they were in favour of protection.
He had not the least intention of entering, on that occa-
sion, into a discussion of the Corn-laws, because he
thought it was impossible, at that period, to do so with
advantage ; but he would repeat then, what he had be-
fore stated, both in that House and elsewhere, that,
with regard to the principle of the sliding scale, he was
not only ready, but anxious to see it maturely consi-
dered, with a view to the removal of those evils which
undoubtedly arose at present, and he believed that not
only the commercial, but the agricultural classes also,
were prepared for the fullest discussion. He would not
follow up all the topics brought under consideration in
the discussion on the Budget last Session, but he would
say, that that discussion had naturally led him to look a
. little into the question of sugar duties, and be saw no
reason for that despondency which seemed to be enter-
tained on the other side upon the subject. (The Noble
Lord here went into some details respecting the price of
sugar at a former period and at the present time, but was
quite inaudible in the gallery.) lie was understood to
say, that with respect to the predictions which were made
as to the supply of sugar from the East and West
Indies, and the Mauritius, he would not now go into detail.
He would only say that there was no ground whatever
for the assertion that the country would be exposed to
serious inconvenience from a deficient supply of sugar,
if the importation of the foreign production was not
permitted. He would not further occupy the time of
the House. They were now about to deliver the ver-
dict which was called for by the last elections, and
which it was their duty to deliver before her Majesty's
Government could submit any important measure to
Parliament.--(Hear.)
Mr. MILNER GIBSON had expected to hear some
important statement from the Noble Lord who repre-
sented such large and important commercial interests in
that House.--(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord divided
his speech into two parts. The first was a careful de-
finition of the question before the House ; but he (Mr.
Gibson) preferred to take for his guide, as to the nature
of that question, the Address which had been pro-
posed, and the amendment subsequently moved.—(Hear,
hear.) He had little interest in those party discussions
in which the Noble Lord delighted to indulge. He be-
lieved that the country felt little interested in them.
He believed that all interest in them was con-
fined to the privileged class to which the Noble Lord be-
longed, and which now stood upon the threshold of office.
Ire was surprised that the Noble Lord should make
light of the important questions which were really be-
fore the House.—(Hear, hear.) It was known to every
man, woman and child in the.,country that there were
in that House more Member favourable to Sir Robert

Peel than to Lord Melbourne.—(Cheers and great
laughter.) Why, then, say any more about it ?—(Re-
newed cheering and laughter.) It could do nothing
more than cause unpleasant recollections on that side of
the house.—(Great laughter amongst the Tories.) The
feast is prepared for you—(said the Hon. Gentleman,
addressing the Opposition)—and you will partake of it
in due time- —but bide your time—and let us employ in
the meanwhile what time we have remaining, in the dis-
cussion of the important questions which the Queen has
recommended to our consideration.—(Great cheering.)
However, the Noble Lord, in the second part of his
speech, when he talked of the questions before the House
and the country, forgot what he had previously stated,
and said the question was between protection and free
trade, and had nothing to do with the propositions of her
Majesty's Mininisters. The Noble Lord was somewhat
correct in that statement, as it did materially involve the
question of whether they should have a protective or a
free trade ; and he believed that the majority of those who
gave their earnest and zealous support to the proposition
of her Majesty's Ministers, with reference to the Bs.
duty, and tbr the relaxation of their commercial code,
felt that it was a step towards an end; and he contended
that those who proposed the Bs. duty only brought it a
day the nearer when the duty should be repealed
altogether.—(Cheers.) The Noble Lord had talked a
great deal about the constituents who had returned him,
and doubtless Liverpool was a very important commer-
cial town. But if they analyse the votes which returned
the Noble Lord to Parliament, they would find that he
was not returned to that House by the majority of the
householders, the merchants, and bankers of Livepool,
but he owed his seat to that pure and virtuous body,
the freemen of Liverpool. Therefore he did not con-
sider that he really represented the sentiments of
the town of Liverpool on that important question.—
(Ironical cheers and cries of "Order.")
The SPEAKER said the Hon. Member must be aware
to state that any Hon. Member did not represent the
constituency which returned him to Parliament, was out
of order.

Mr. GIBSON was far from saying that he did not
represent legally the constituency of Liverpool. He
was going to say he wished it was the law of the land,
that the body of men who influenced that election should
not have the political power they at present possessed.
In the latter part of his speech the Noble Lord had said, in
reference to the existing distress, " Take courage—don't
despond—for that was not enough." He supposed he meant
they should trust to what the Right Hon. Baronet
should do when he came into power. But the Right Hon.
Gentleman had left the matter in doubt as to
what he should do. Much had been said of the im-
portance of not agitating the country, as it might prevent
persons from investing their capital. 43ut the indistinct.
ness of the Right Hon. Baronet was nittch more likely to
produce these results. It was known that the Right
lion. Baronet was coming into power, and whatever
measures he thought proper he would be able to.carry
into effect. That, he thought, the Noble Lord could not
deny. A symptom of this uncertainty had already been
perceived ; for a Noble Duke in another place had said
that if the Right Hon. Baronet did anything with re-
spect to the alteration of the Corn-laws, he would do so
and so. Did the Noble Duke, he would ask, make that
statement without a supposition in his mind that the in-
distinctness of the Right Hon. Baronet meant something?
He was certain that the Right Hon. Baronet was a
man that would not depart from the sound system
of policy of yielding to the pressure of the times when
it was no longer safe to resist. In his speech upon the
Catholic Question, if he (Mr. Gibson) recollected rightly,
the Right Hon. aronet had laid it down as a principle
which ought to be placed in every statesman's manual.
He was convinced that, at the present moment, such was
the state of the commercial interests, and so great was
the distress and the difficulty of finding employment for
labourers, that there would be such a spirit of dissension
in the country before long, that the Right Hon. Baronet
would be unable to resist the repeal of the Corn-laws,
and a complete relaxation of the commercial code. He
was surprised at the speech of an Hon. Member opposite,
—he did not know where he was Member for—(Several
Members called out for Inverness)—but he was re-
markable for having come forward to ask for a vote of
public money in order to enable his perishiug country-
men to go to foreign lands. (Hear, hear.)
He was astonished to hear him doing that very thing
which Hon. Gentlemen on the other side always depre-
cated, making use of exciting and inflammatory lan-
guage—(Hear, hear) —in reference to classes—(Cheers)
—and when the Hon. Gentleman talked about the mercy
of the master manufacturers, of their tender mercies
in employing infants, and getting rid of adults, he went
on to tell the House of the tender feelings of the agri-
culturists, the farmers, and the landed aristocracy, and
described each as acting under the influence of more
generous tendency than the master manufacturers.
Was anything. he would ask, more improper than such
statements ? To what. good would they lead ?—(Cheers.)
The Honourable Gentleman, when he described his
scenes of rural felicity, must permit him to remind
him of some circumstances that took place in 1839,
with respect to the high price of corn. On the
14th of February, 1839, at a sitting of the Board
of Guardians of the Grantham Union, it was proposed by
the Duke of Rutland, seconded by Mr. G. Gregory, and
unanimously resolved, " That the Board, considering
that during the high price of bread, the independent la-
bourers are consuming barley bread or wheaten bread
mixed with barley, while wheaten bread only is distri-
buted to the paupers, and being desirous to diminish the
oonsumption of wheaten bread, in order that the distress
of the labourers may be the sooner alleviated, resolved
that the bread given to the paupers be of the same qua-
lity as that used by the independent labourers in that
district--(Hear, hear)—and this, be it remembered, was
at a time when the agricultural labourers ought to be in
a condition of great prosperity, yet at the same time they
were obliged to have recourse to coarser food.-L-(Cheets.)
But the Hon. Gentleman, and most of those who had
argued on the question, and even the Noble Lord, had
agreed with them, and pretended that the manufacturer
wanted bread cheap in order to reduce wages, and so lessen
the cost of production in order to allow them to compete
with the foreign manufacturer. That was a complete and
entire misunderstanding-. They merely wished to obtain the
power of selling; because, if they could not take in exchange
for their goods, the produce of other countries, no barter
could take place. A gentleman who appeared at the
late Conference from America stated that the people of
America did not want our manufactures cheaper. What
they wanted was the power of paying for them, and
that they were prevented from doing, because this coun-
try would not take their corn. It was freedom of ex-
change that was wanted.—(Cheers.) The question as
to high prices or low prices when the Corn-laws are
repealed would be an idle and a curious speculation,
which would amuse but could not lead to any profitable
result. On what principle of justice, he would ask, did
they deprive one class of the community to their right
to freedom of exchange?—(Cheers.) He contended that
the wheat bronght into this country from foreign lands
was as much the produce of British industry as
if it had been grown on our own fields.--(Hear.)
He was prepared to support a proposition for an entirely
free trade in corn, and he supported the Ministerial pro-
position for an Bs. duty, simply because, as had been
wittily observed by the Hon. and Learned Member for
Cork, he hoped they would some day or other be able
to send the Bs. after the rest.—(Cheers and laughter.)
He did not wish to attack particular classes, or to im-
pute unworthy motives to any Gentleman ; it was not a
right mode of conducting public questions ; but he must
consider it as an unfortunate coincidence that the pecu-
niary interest of those gentlemen who were favourable
to the Corn-laws should so closely coincide with the
maintenance of the laws to which they gave their politi-
cal support, and simple-minded people might be apt to
consider that those laws had been enacted by a Parlia-
ment of landowners for their own pecuniary advantage.
Far be it from him to deny that Hon. Gentlemen oppo-
site were actuated by the most sincere, honest, and dis-
interested motives. Doubtless they supported those
laws only for national objects. They were men who
would

" -- Do good for nought, and blush to find it gain."
They accepted the benefit which they derived from
the Corn-laws rather as a circumstance which they
could not help than as an advantage to be desired.
Their only objects were national ones ; they desired to
keep England independent of foreign countries for food,
and to provide permanent employment for our growing
population. As for providing employment, however, for
our growing population the Corn-laws did not provide
employment even for our agricultural population. From
1821 to 1831, whilst the whole population of the country
had greatly increased, the agricultural population had
considerably diminished, being less by li,ooo families
in 1831 than it had been in 1821, and they knew by the
Reports of the Poor-law Commissioners that pauperism
was more per head in the agricultural districts than in
the manufacturing ones.—(Hear, hear.). It was clear,
therefore, that the Corn-laws could not provide em-
ployment for the agricultural population.—(Cheers.)
And even if they could, he would ask what justice was
they interfered with the another class out—
it to enact a law for the purpose of keeping one' class
in(ll
earemployment,or
whilstby keepingt
natural right of freedom of;
Fxellange, they kept out of
employment the manufacturing population,
while, at the
same time, they did not find employment for the agricul-
tural population.—(Loud cheers,),.
find employment for the agricultural Population, it would
be unjust to find employment for them by such a And even if they did
mea-
sure.—(Cheers.) He trusted they would have a debate
on that question, and would not so far insult the country
as to overlook those great interests on the present occa-
sion.—(Cheers.)
People would say that the Right Hon.
Baronet had given directions to his party not to say one
word except as to the want of confidence. They would
say, that at the political assembly which, according to the
Times newspaper,
was held at the Right Hon. Baronet's
residence on Sunday last, he knew not whether during
hours of Divine service—(A laugh)—Hon. Members had
employed themselves in devising some scheme to give
the country no information whatever on these important
subjects,
and to keep the great interests of.the country
in ignorance as to their future intentions. He stood there
as no party man.—(Cheers and laughter from the Tory
Benches.) He repeated he was no party man, and had
proved it by his conduct.—(Cheers and counter cheers.)
But he would tell Honourable Gentlemen oppo-
site that they would be wanting in respect to the
country if they did not allude to those great
questions of the Corn-laws, and the commercial
tariff by the operation of which the commercial classes
of the country were pressed down to the earth.—(Loud
cheering.) When he looked at Hon. Gentlemen oppo-
site with, many of whom ho was acquainted, for many
of whom he felt a regard, and many of whom he knew
to be men of honest intentions, he could not but regret
to lieu the sneers with which last night many of the
very
important statements of his Hon. Friend the Mem-
ber for Stockport had been met by Hon. Gentlemen
emposite.—(Loud cheers from the Ministerial benches.)
Ile regretted to hear the quotations from Scripture
which that Hon. Gentleman had introduced into his
.speech alluded to in the contemptuous manner in which
they had been by Hon. Gentlemen on the other side the
House. He for one thought that Scripture quotations

should not be introduced unadvisedly into the
discussion of political and financial questions,
but a precedent for the introduction of Scripture
quotations had been set by the other side of the House.
—(Cheers.) What would they say vslea,ey, heard
Dorchester
had the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Dorchester
had actually quoted Scripture in support of the Corn-
laws?—(Loud cheers). At a dinner which that Right
Hon. Baronet had given to his constituents at Dorchester.
he had actually quoted the Old Testament to show that
the sliding scale had a Scripture foundation, because it
was as near an approximation as possible to a total pro-
hibition. The Right Hon. Baronet had told his consti-
tuents that he could not entertain any doubt but that
passage had been written for their instruction.—(Loud
cheers.) After that he trusted Hon. Gentlemen oppo-
site would say no more about the impropriety of quoting
Scripture on the subject of the Corn-laws.—(Cheers.)
But Hon. Gentlemen opposite were themseves guilty of
every crime which they laid to the charge of men on his
(Mr. Gibson's) side of the House. They were agitators,
Witness the agitation at Exeter Hall—(Cheers)—wit-
ness their agitation against education—witness the agi-
tation for church extension carried on under the guidance
of his Hon. Friend the Member for the University of Ox-
ford.—(Cheers.) All he regretted was that the agita-
tion of Gentlemen on his side of the House in favour of
commercial reform had not been so successful as the agi-
tation of Hon. Gentlemen opposite. It had, however, been
successful to a coin iderable ex ten t.—(Ministerial cheers.)
The Hon. Member for Maidstone had boasted that his
party had increased its numbers during the recent elec-
tions, while that of the Noble Lord the Secretary for
the Colonies had diminished. But if the party of the
Noble Lord had diminished, the Anti-Corn-law party
had increased, and so far the dissolution had succeeded ;
and all they wanted was time and agitation and the dis
semination of the writings of such men as Dr. Chalmers
and the Rev. Baptist Noel—(Hear, hear)—all they
wanted was to spread abroad such writings, and to appeal
to the good sense and feeling of the people, and he was
certain that the Corn-laws or the bread-tax, as it was
called by his Hon. Friend the Member for Stockport.,
would raise an opposition similar to that which had led
to a repeal of negro slavery. Hon. Gentlemen opposite
had formerly said that slavery was for the advantage of
the negroes, as they now said that a scarcity of food was.
for the advantage of the consumers of food.—(Hear,
hear, - and laughter.) But he was persuaded that the
people of England were not to be deluded by such a,
fallacy. The Corn-laws, they might depend
,upon it,
must be repealed ; they were inconsistent with the
first principles of justice, and they must fail. The
Noble Lord the Member for Liverpool had al-
luded to our trade with the Brazils. Now. it.
-should be remembered that our treaty with
the Brazils would soon come to a conclusion ; and at t 1
present moment the Brazilian Government levied a duct.
of 20 per cent. upon our manufactures, while we ituptrsea
a duty of 30 per cent. upon their sugar. It -could
hardly be expected that our relations with that country
could long continue in such a state. The, :1;oble Lord
the Member for Liverpool must be aware tkat a very con-
siderable portion of the revenue was derived from the
sugar duties, and that the consumption of sugar in this
country, per head, was now less than it had been forty
years ago. He must also be aware that while an im-
mense quantity of Brazilis.r sugar was now lying in
bond in Liverpool, many manufacturers engaged in the
Brazilian trade were ols,liged to cease working, because
they could not longer invest their capital in dead stock
lying in bonded warehouses. Now, what excuse could
there be for keeping sugar in bonded warehouses, while
the revenue was declining and our people were suffering
from a want of that necessary of life ? Its value was 2d.
per pound, while they placed upon it a duty of 7id., for
the purpose of preventing its being used. They allowed.
it to be sent out to the blacks of Jamaica and to other
countries, while they refused to their own popu-
lation at home the advantage of purchasing it at a cheap
price. Could they point out any reason—(Hear, hear)—
whatever for keeping up the duty on sugar at its present
amount ? Their justification would not be found in a
desire to consult for the interest of the negroes, for he
ventured to say that it would not be for the advantage
of the negroes that the cultivation of sugar should ems'',
altogether. The Noble Lord the 'Member for Liverpool
had said that the West India Colonists were. placed;,n a
very peculiar and unprecedented position in conseo:aence
of the passing of the Emancipation Act; and therefore it
would not be advisable to tamper with the laws regulat-
ing our trade with those colonies. But the Noble Lord.
could merely allege that in consequence of the Emanci-
pation Act the cost of producing sugar in Jamaica had
increased. The proposition, however, of the Govere.-
ment would give a protection to the West India produr..ers
far more than equivalent to that increased cost ofytoduc-
tion. There was an end, therefo-2e, of that olL,jection ;
and he was utterly at a loss to Irtow upon wkat principle
the proposition of the Noble Lord could be,justified. The
Hon. Member then conckided amidst the cheers of the
Ministerial party, by. thanking the House for the atten-
tion it bad given Mtn.

Mr. BORTUWICK said the question before the House
was not one of corn, timber, or sugar, but who could pro-
pound these questions with any chance of bringing them
to a. practical issue. If the Government went into the
question it would not be able to propose measures to the
House with any chance of success. But he should be
prepared on a future occasion to‘Show that there was no
connection whatever between the Corn-laws and the dis-
tress which existed in the agricultural and manufacturing
districts ; that whether the protection afforded to api-
culture was that of a fixed duty or a sliding scale, in re-
ality it had no connection whatever with commercial &s-
-tress. The Hon. Member for -Bath had stated that her
Majesty's Government had grown unpopular in the coun-
try because they had not advanced in what he called libe-
rality. If that were the case, one might have thought
that the result of the elketiens would have been` to in-
crease the extreme section of Liberals, instead of filling
the benches on that (the Opposition) side of the house.
He admitted that the first practical result which should
follow the decision of the blouse on the questions now
before it must necessarily be the determining of who
should in future govern this great country. He said
who, in reference to the two sides of the House, not in
reference to any two sections of individuals in that House.
nlc3aedronteot,at.ehme,
hll„fsempubreprofsoers,Tarn
Many complaints issued from Hon. Gentlemen opposite,
haed ii h
t
hertnlitaajlitemsotonyu.
sup-
posingthat‘becoratuhrhtcalled tie Right Hon. Gentleman
to her councils. It would 1.,e, in his opinion, a great in-
decency on the part of tke Right Hon. Baronet to rise
up and offer his servie,es to the Crown, as if setting them
up to auction, lie 'would not sit down without saying,
in respect to Irciand, that he hoped, whatever Govern-
meat was formed, it would turn its attention to conciliate
the people of that country, and to do justice to all par-
ties, without distinction of Catholic or Protestant. He
had seen in the Arth of Spain that the Catholic religion
was capable of producing the best moral effects, and if
in Ireland the priests abused the influence of the sacred,
office, they ought to be punished in their civil, not in their
ecclesiastical character. He would vote for the amend-
ment, in order that the country might have a Govern-
ment capable of giving full effect to useful measures.
Mr. S. O'BRIEN thought the course adopted by lion.
Gentlemen opposite only shows that they felt themselves.
worsted in the discussion of the important questions rd-
fermi to in the Speech, and were eager to walk into
office, upon their votes alone. In the whole of his
public life he had never seen a more pitiful course than
that which had been pursued by Conservative statesmen
for the last three months.--(Rear.) The Right lion.
Baronet said he would not give an opinion until he had
received his fee. Such an argument might very pro-
perly be applied to a game at chess ; but he thought
that, as a Member of that House, interested in the
public welfare, the Hon. Baronet was bound to do all in
his power to sustain the commercial character of this
country.—(Hear.) The Hon. Member who had moved
the amendment had complained that the Whig Govern-
ment had not fulfilled the promises given by Lord Grey
in 1630, of peace, retrenchment., and reform. He would
say one word with respect so economy. Had the reproach
on that subject come from the late Hon. Member for Kil-
kenny, it would have come with weight; but in his opinion
it ill became those who had always stimulated the Go-
vernment to an increased expenditure, to come forward
with such a charge.—(Hear, hear.)
The lion. Member
had condemned the conduct pursued with respect to
China. It was well known that the policy of the Go-
vernment with respect to that country had received the
approbation of the Bight Hon. Baronet opposite.—(Bear,
hear.) Then awain with respect to the affair of Mr.
M`Lecod, that, which also had been made a subject.
of reproach, he thought the course pursued by some"
Hon. Members was equally to be regretted. If it were
warm support to the Hem.
O'Brien) would render as
Government,
but he h ' •
t oug at it
necessary to assert the rights of this country, he (Mr. S.
Earonet as to the present .
to be deplored that an affair of that. 'nature
IV" greatly viewed in the
should ever have been
With respect to the blame that had been attached to the
Government for not acting up to that which they pro-
fessed,
he had only to say that since is 5, they had
brought forward three measures for the prtrpose of car-
rying out the object of appropriation which they had in
view. As an Irish Member, he felt that, he ought to ex-
press his gratitude to the present Government for the
course of policy they had pursued in Ireland.—(Hear,)
They had governed that country in the only way
in which it could be properly governed—namely,
upon an equal footing with England.—(Hear.); In all
their appointments of the executive of that county, they ,
had selected men eminently qualified to fill their stations,
and, but for the law, with respect to Catholics, a most
excellent and worthy man would have now been the
Chancellor of Ireland. In stating what he had done, he
did not wish it to be understood that he coincided in all.
the details of the policy of the Government, but loekims
at it generally, he thought it was good.—(Hear, he^..r.)
As to the Corn-laws they had excited the greate;sr in-
terest in the country ; there was no question he believed
in which so many petitions had been preunted to the
House, and he felt confident, whatever Ministry was in
power, something must be done with respect to them.—
(Hear, hear.) For his own part he would do alt
in his power to keep down the prices of corn to
a fair and reasonable sale. As to the reforms
that the present Government bad effected, he thought
they had not been dealt frankly with by several Hon..
Members. He would ask any reasonable man whether
the reforms in the Churzli, in the tithes and Church.
rates were {not excellent measures. Then there was
their plan of education, and the reduction of the postage,
which he looked upon to be the greatest boon that had
been conferred upon the people for ages. So also with
respect, to the union of the Canadas—in short, all their
administrative forms had effected great good, and en-
titled them to the gratitude of the country. Now, what
e
act, he would ask, had the Conservatives ever done to
ntitle them to such a distinction ? For his own part
he knew of none. It was true they had introduced the
Controverted Elections Bill, and the Irish Registration
Bill ; but he did not think that those measures were suf-
ficient to call for the gratitude of the country to them..
With respect to Ireland, that country had always been.
cast aside by the Tories ; but he felt certain that they
must take care how they governed her in future. Whe-
t Cher he considered the demerits of the present Goverg-