The Sun.
London, England, 1847-01-26 00:00:00

statements of distress, and he stated that the greatest 1
suffering did really exist. They should consider the ' '
peculiar circumstances of the people of Ireland. There I
were 3,500 individuals who, during the time they
were otherwise unemployed, used to scrape toge- :
ther manure, and by the assistance of this were I
enabled to drag out a miserable and useless ex-
istence,
but even of that they were now deprived.
He begged especially the ,Goveroment would give their
attention to the system of squatting. On his own
estates he had an instance of the inveterate disposition,
for that when he was building a house for one of his
tenants, for be found that the tenant had made an
arrangement not for pulling down the old tenement, but
for having his in it. He (Lord. Dysart) was obliged to
refuse to have the building completed, unless he would
agree to the old building being pulled down.
Lord DEVON thought, after what he had heard
from one of their Lordships that night, that the
Noble Lord must have been totally neglectful
of what had passed under his own eyes ; for
any one hearing that Noble Lord, and knowing nothing
of Irish legislation, would have thought that the British
Government for the first time had begun to legislate,
and, moreover, had all at once made a demand for a loan
for Irish purposes. The No Lord who had just sat
down, spoke the feelings of ev-Aify honest landlord when
he admitted the obligedi:oh which rested on landed pro-
perty to mitigate the wants of the poor. But the diffi- A
culty weighing upon the subject was, that the landlord
did not always represent the land, and then if he did not
have the means of meeting the obligations which fell
upon him as a landlord, of course he could not be ex-
pected to do it. But so far from the proposal of the
Government being novel or strange, be recollected that
as far back as the first Labour-rate Act for Ireland, the
Government of that day advanced money for the " im-
provement, cultivation, and drainage, and otherwise the
improvement of lands." Such were the words in which
the Government of that day had made an advance of
money to the Irish landlords; and he (Lord Devon) was
sorry that the Noble Lord who had spoken on the sub-
ject had not exercised more industry in relation to the
•abject—the same industry which he was accus-
tomed to show on other subjects. The Noble Lord, in his
observations had spoken of the classes who would be
affected by the failure of the potato crop ; but he must
tell him that all classes were affected by it more or
less. The lower classes scarcely ever saw money ;
between the farmer and the lower-classes money hardly
ever passed. The farmer in Ireland had a great aversion
to bringing out money to pay for labour, for he knew
not the value to him of improvements on his farm, or
of having his fields well cultivated ; and, therefore he
hardly ever employed the labourer at all. Moreover,
speaking of this subject, and the total neglect of cultiva-
tion, he knew some farmers who had got money for
their last year's crops, and they had actually deposited
that money in the savings banks, and then thrown
themselves for employment on the public works. He
said he had heard much abuse heaped during the
all.tob eut i
el ClonGte.
discussion that night, on the Labour rate Act of last
session; for his part he could not join in it; that Act
was passed at a time of emergency and under pecnliar
circumstances. He said he was not able to be present at
the discussion of that measure last year, but he did not
find by the public records, that there was much discus-
sion on the subject, or that there was any great opposi-
tion, or that those who now abused it forlevil results
had made any opposition to its passing•—(Hear, hear.)
What, he asked, was then the position of Irish land-
lords? Many persons in that country made a general
demand for employment; for at that time the want of food
was not so much felt as the: want of employment to
enable - them to buy it with.—(Hear, hear.) At
that time there were the two Drainage Acts, the
Agricultural as well as the Public Drainage Act
was in operation, but yet beyond these means something
more was thought necessary, and therefore the Labour-
rate Act was introduced, and passed, to give employ-
ment to
.the necessitous. They had heard that Act de-
sctibed as useless and.-.positively mischievous. He did.
not -.agree with such a condemnation of it ; the unem-
ployed 'had gained the means of a livelihood engaged in
the construction of public roads, and he believed that
'those employed as overseers had not selected even a
hundred perches that would be useless; nor would they„
he was sure, make such- a selection. He had a letter in
his baud which he had received from a gentleman in
Ireland and 'in that- letter the writer attributed the
ttrhiennqpepinilrii?netyftiseet
epemopplloey
iinughtihs 0 dpiesotrpilcet
at
to a
nhaving y
parthad
of the season on the public works. Such had been one of
the effects of this much- abused Labour-rateAct. It had been
said generally in some companies, why could not the
landlords themselves employ the people on reproductive
works—for example; railways, and such like—without
any aid from Government.. lle_asked, what was the
position of the Irish landlord ? But he would not go
into the difficulty of the Position of an Irish landlord
on that occasion. This must be obvious, that if the
Labour-rate Act had not been passed at the time it was,
the destitution and distress which would have ensued
must have been vast—greatly more aggravated than the
existing esils. He begged to make one suggestion to
the Government. He said, it was a question with many
how far a person might be able to protect himself against
further increased taxation. The Government proposal was
that if any one would not *take a loan to be employed
on reproductive works,-then he must be subjected to the
taxes imposed upon th electoral division. But he (Lord
Devon) wished that a diVision was made which was
more select. It had been contended by some that if they
employed the people on their owntown-land, they ought
to be-free from furtht*. t'pEatiort. • That was not the
question; for that was. really .giving a' remium ' to the
man who had cleared his town-land. But his proposition
• was this—the taxes imposed, by Government on an elec-
toral division would amount to so much ; he wished,
if he, far instance, and two more, wished to take a loan'
or give employment in proportion to the number of
acres they possessed in the electoral division, that they
should be free from further taxation. As to the subject
of waste lands, which had occupied the attention of the
Government and their Lordships's House, he was of
opinion that the application of the loan to this purpose
would be more profitable and more usefully made than
to many other purposes, and that, too not with a view
of recovering them for the location of cottiers, but fur
allotting them. out into large farms, which would be ad-
vantageously cultivated - both for this country and for
Ireland.:, A'Noble Lord had suggested the advancement
rdas
that by the
of - money upon railway projects, a mode which
might be good or not, but compared with
the other,. the reeltahmealtaiosntt.b
offering safe security and . good remuneration, he
eyH ofpe r Approved
owp
oassetde t o lands
mgenerallyeet tha es
Government, which had
decidedly,
f the
measurespreferred
proposedoett
hh eo
give a stimulus to labour and- employment. But, one
m e nutheeb eftohroeu
attendedgthhet
among the others deserved the attention of their Lord-
ships. he meant the method tof getting rid of the re-
dundant population by means of emigration. He thought
ethviislsmoetrvitaraimouosngin
emigrantthat an) laesfsti stptharinsocvceeoufnr.thttr'moystw'
with great abuse, but any assistance on the other side
of the Atlantic, when the emigrant arrived there, he was
sure would
were Government determined in rendering that
assistance in the • land - of. emigration, that
the Irish landlords uniting :together would make it
more like colonisation than 7 emigration, by gathering
together different classes of. •the population, so that on
the other side of the Atlantic each individual would most
likely find a sphere at,once to suit their energies and
Much -had been said-elsewhere their ablilities.
for Ireland ;he believed there-was a difficulty
poor-law
d with the subject; but lee was of opinion that
connecte
it aught to be the English. poor-law or not,
the
the Irish landlords must be
'-prepared to receive
a poor
law sooner or later. - He 'was alit' sanguine enough to
they would weather the storm, and intro-
ducebelieve that
improved state of things' in the country, from
an f the present calatnity.
the experience 0
ENT Was er -- d •
The Earl Of ROD I. .
sures introduced would tend to produce considerable
that the Labour-rate Act
benefit. He denied ,
session was productive .of any good. The works
itscon-
stricted provisions were entirely uselesa, and
structed under
besides of withdrawing the labourers
it was the cause
of the soil. It was well known
from the cultivation
d the labourers preferred to take employ.that in Ireland the . remuneration
they in the public works, even when
than they could• have obtained
they received was less
a thi - A account he considered
that the farmers ; and 0 . .
possible circumspection should have
that the greatest
employment. He was sure
the exercised in affording
be received as boons by
Ireland, the measures Proposed would
giie them his
sup-
Ireland, and he should, therefore,
port. Was sorry that the Noble
The Earl FITZVVIL
LIAM
bushis speeches, and who
Lord, who was so discursive
r et quibusdam alas,
generally spoke de omnibus
occasion. He regretted
was not in his place on thatwas
.
present, as h
e (Lord
that his Noble Friend . was not
...
bearing his testimony, to
Fitzwilliam) had pleasure in . .
made at the close of
the excellence of a recommendation
be recommended that
that Noble Lord's speech, in which
the people ofthis
country
they sh6uld 'endeavour to induce
possible from the con-
country to abstain as much as ..
- With respect to what
sumption of farinaceous food.
; na behind him (Lord
had fallen from his Noble Friend
_Act, he (Earl Fitz-
Devon) respecting the Labour-rate
that measure did
william) had to observe, that although.t could have been
not work' in the way .in which 1 .
a and he would
wished, still it had effected much goo d+
ask those Noble Lords who made too strong grounds of
would the country have
objection to it, in what condition
been in if that Act had net passed? That measure; he
s of Ireland ; for
considered, was a test for the landlord
if they did not employ their destitute labourers on their
own properties, this ket made it Conipulsory to afford
them employment on the public roads, and he there-
fore denied that it was a positive evil. He
believed 'that in a l point of view
no
.
the Act, though not providing for works
of a useful nature, still was of great benefit, and it ap-
peared to him very evident that it was a means of re-
lieving a very considerable portion of the distress. With
respect to the measures opened this evening by the Noble
Marquis on the Treasury bench, he begged to say that
they did as much credit to the wisdom of her Majesty's
Government as they would, he was sure, prove efficient
to meet the • they were intended.
emergency for which
There were some parts of them to which exception might
be taken, but he sincerely believed that to some
extent they would grapple with the evils they were
intended to meet. He must now say a word for the
would say certainly:c.ieharilne would
tend to
landlords of Ireland ; and he would say with respect
lwo:ltitio
them, that it the whole responsibility and duty of idle-
viating the distresses of the people of Ireland, were to
s thees s e
Ida
no
df
be cast on one class, and that class the landlords, he
Parliament and Government would do a
great injustice to that class. lie would ask, why put
nt
that
at persons
work
?i n IrelandH e di
did
it on that class alone ? Were there no persons there
possessed
?beWenegeagtilederien
not think that such a course was ajust one, and he would
gte further ,gad. say, it should - ~ that
Ireland alone. Ile Would ask why Ireland was in such
A condition ? He would ask why Ireland was as if is ?