The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-20 00:00:00

BLACK CAT.

Mr. MUNTZ said as he had not had the opportunity
of bring forward his motion on this particular, he would
take the earliest opportunity of doing so.
DUKE OF BRUNSWICK.
Mr. DUNCOMBE postponed his motion on the in-
jury sustained by the Duke of Brunswick from the
violation of thu 63d article of the Treaty of Vienna, till
Thursday week.

BRITISH MUSEUM.
Mr. lIUME complained of what appeared to him to
be the irresponsibility of that institution to the public, an
institution to which they had been votinc, yearly from
40,000/. to 50,0001. An election had taken place in
that body of a person, no doubt worthy to be con-
nected with the institution ; but what he com-
plained of was, that the departments of science and
natural history were not properly represented. He had
formerly moved for a committee of inquiry, and was
opposed by the Government, but he now positively inti-
mated that he would not accede to any vote of money
unless something satisfactory was done in reference to it.
Lord J. RUSSELL said the subject was under the
consideration of her Majesty's Government.
LIBOURING POOR (IRELAND) BILL.
On the motion that the House go into Committee on
this Bill,
Mr. 11. BAILLIE said he begged to offer
a few words, in consequence of a misrepresention
that had been made with respect to some observations
of his. He (Mr. Baillie) was represented to have stated,
in answer to a question of the Noble Lord the Member for
Lynn, that, as a Scotch representative, he would not
vote English money to relieve Irish distress. The
Noble Lord had repudiated that on the part of Scotland.
Ho (Mr. Baillie) also repudiated such an expres-
sion, and he would be ashamed to have ever made
use of such. The Noble Lord was not satis-
fied with having misrepresented his (Mr. Baillie's)
words, but he took the trouble to inform the

ITouso that his (11r. namls wns 114

_ .
(Mr. Beillie's) ancestors were- ice e ,e;
et se
bolero (as we understood the Ifeneurel.le Menib c 'r)
Noble Lord's ancestors had en acre there.—(Laugn
lie (Mr. Baillie) was ready to give his su
to all the measures her Majesty's Govern
might bring forward that wou:d in his opinion be
hated for the benefit of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) ,
Mr. D. BROWNE said, that however indisposed ne
to detain the attention of the House from the several rai
which this Bill was intended to relieve, he yet could not
calling its notice te the frightful catalogue of evils which
daily recurring in his county. The Hon. and
_Le
Member for Cork had a fortnight ago stated, unless
were granted that two millions of people would lose
lives in Ireland. Ho had himself read, in the f,le
Journal, a statement that upwards of 500 persons we
_A
day. To this he might add the statement which apee 17,
that journal on the 1 I th. instant, in which it was said tn'e
less than 671 coffins had been carried to the g
in one union within a month. To this the
nourable Gentleman added a number of instances of ners
ful suffering which were recorded in the same
erdr;
In Sligo, also, the people were dying of starvation, se, ef,
revolting case of misery which had recently
come to his knowledge. A man named Malrowny per
an ass for a few shillings. He lived for a short time elete
portion of its carcass, and he died from the effects of wee,
wholesome and disgusting food. The Hon. Member gri;
series of other case', but in so low a tone as to be inanone
the gallery. He did not wish to detain the House, but
that the time had arrived when no Irish Member cote
silent, and when they should demand Parliament to sc,:es
forth a more helping hand than had hitherto been eaten
...nele"
occurreed
Ireland. He asked what was the use of legislating for 7,aiti
if they were desolated by hunger and disease? eneel
the attention of the House to Ireland, and earnestly !ley
that they would take immediate means for relieving the re
of Ireland. tIY
Mr. LEFROY said, as the Noble Lord had stated s
Irish measures would be postponed for a certain Iser' eett
714
thought it proper to avail himself of that opportunity
the dreadful condition of that country before the House. icet
it appeared to him most important that if Irish Members
to remain here, away from the sphere in their own !eOO
Ottwhere they might minister with a, vantage to the consgeetti
relief of their countrymen, it was their duty in that fleeTer
state, not only far her Majesty's Ministers but for the
tion of the British public, that there was no exegete 0
ios
the statements made as to the distress which prevailed
country. In making the statements which he was abo or
make, he would not cast the slightest reproach on her
_ses
jesty's Ministers, for he believed that to the extent of If
power they had ministered to the relief of that country lee
as they could see their way. But in the circumstances le
their duty to lay the condition of that country before
from
said he would read to the House some extracts fro a letter ,
he had received within the last two days respecting a 01e
00
Ireland, he meant Roscommon. It stated that they w sdi
a melancholy condition in that county, and that on SO?
clergs man's horse had died for want of sustenance, oy
poor people insisted or cutting him up, and carrying s°jetar
carcase for food. In many parts of Roscommon great:4S
tions had been made by the resident landed proprietors meo
the population in the existing distress, but all they CO lie
went but a little way. What then must be the state ofthor es
tricts in which the same attention was not bestowed .to
anxiously implored the Government to reconsider whether 'tbs
not possible to introduce a more comprehensive scheme, to
any they had yet proposed, to avert the misery and dbot
which existed in Ireland to a greater extent ore
they had ever before existed in any civilised eeee
Wifb respect to those temporary measures that had rte
troduced, no relief had been received from them. rie,esdi
gard to the future, ruin would necessarily ensue to theseely
if they were taken from labour on the public works• of
regretted that her Majesty's Government had acted 0,0 y
had done in not allowing some portion of the grant seeted
applied to the purchase of seed, and he trusted they ""
is
re-consider the question.—( The Hon. Member here res.eibe
extract from a letter corroborating his views.) Attention e''ool
question was indispensable to the preservation and resters° eel
Ireland. He must deny the imputation that had beer tee!
upon that vilified class, the landhirds of Ireland. that .bete
were intent only upon putting money into their pockets. 01
were many cases where landlords had not received a fardnee:iti
their rents. He felt bound to avail himself of that oppertia es,
to lay before the Howe the views which he thought won
neflt Ireland. thf,
e
Sir B. HALL rose with several other Members, bet e
ultimately gave way, and the Hon. Baronet said that 'buts'
net intended to take any farther part in this discussion; ebig
he had an opportunity of saying a few words, he would tc:bad
state that he did not retract one single word of what b thee
uttered the other night, because the assertions bet 01
made had been made from the substance of teba tree
an authentic report, and he believed that that report 'lsobar%
He had said that it was a strange thing that Irish
the sles
should come down to the House praying for relief for teetbel
tress in Ireland, and stating that if their rents were Pe
would willingly have provided for the poor in that ce°°tritoe; this
if any English Members got up to express an opieii•ee dis'
subject, they were told either that they did not feel for
ee the
tress, or they did not understand the circumstances ie for
country. Now, he did say that it was a great gewpftbee,
gentlemen to come there from the neighbourhood of ei"
and make long speeches, white they made no
the distress themselves. The Hon. Member for Mtgi Ay
spoken to the extent of the distress, and bad very idyll os.
scrided the terrible sufferings in his country, and yet a
j, .01
connected with a bodz of men who collected large rents, be
spent large sums in Conciliation Hall. It was true tot to
knew nothing about it—( Hear)—but he would just releL,t.
the report for the money that was expended in March4tt
effort to roelilesoise
In March the amount was 9251.; in April 930/.; in May a lb;
June 7061.; in July 748/4 in August 1,13214 in Sept. 49
lb
in Oct. 3471.; in Nov., when the papers were teeming "le
the horrors of Skibbereen. the amount was 602/. Now, why
was not some of this money applied to the relief of the self
people of Ireland ? Why did not Members of that House "she
had influence with the association endeavour to induce -
association to render its assistance in the mitigating the distils-1'
and not come to that House complaining that Ireland 91;
being neglected by England, while in point of fact the Iseli;
of this country were doing all in their power by way of
scriptions and otherwise, to relieve the distress.
Colonel VERNER agreed with the Hon. Baronet in
whiteb:ebet
he stated, with respect to the money for the repeal rent, white
had been collected from a starving people, but he regretted°irt.
add, that it was not a voluntary, but a compulsory nereecell
There was another subject, however, to which he wished to
r tio
the attention of the House, because he believed it to be ° gereatest importance in considering the Bills before the 11?° ,
„
namely, the sub-letting of land, or, more properly speae,olo
.the cutting it up into shreds and patches. That subject be
very little known, he believed, either to that House or t 0 lei
people of England. It was an evil of the greatest rnageit be
but he did not think that the present landlords should eels
blamed for what should be set down to the account of
predecessors. As an instance of the evil, he would just etees
the attention of the House to his own parish, and he ite
this case first, because he was more intimately acquainted el it
it than any other part of the country; and secondly, becttlet
belonged to the heart of what was called the favourite Paresis
Ireland—the province of Ulster. In that parish, two-the"-tot
of which was in the county Tyrone, and the remaining Pees
°
in the county Armagh, when the calamity, which at 10
prevailed over the country, commented, a relief committee ,0
r
established, and meal was distributed once a week, and 'esle
trice. There were at present four hundred and thirtPeo
milies seeking relief from that committee, and of tb,bt
thirty-five only possessed as much as an acre of land; s° eshe
395 families, or (allowing five persons to the family) near'
2 individuals had no land whatever. Of the reinaii°"o7
thirty-five families, consistng of 166 persons the arnotterte
the land in their possession was just eight acres and a e be,
perches. Four of these families occupied seven acres, and ear
remaining portion of the land was divided among the °tee(
thirty-one families. That would give the House some idea
the state of things which existed in what was es" t
the favoured part of Ireland, and would show wee
would be the effect of giving out-door relief. it
asserted that if this measure of out-door relief were granted
e
would convert all Ireland into a poor-house, and absorb tete
whole property of the country. He should like to know hi?
Honourable Member for Bath what he had to say to the re;
tore which he had just drawn? One thing he thought It°,
be very clear, that the cottier system was the greatest sores
under which Ireland laboured. A few days ago he received
letter from the rector ofan adjoining parish to that which' ,ee
had just referred to. He was a brother of a Noble Lord who
was a Member of that House, the Rev. Francis Clements'
(The Gallant Colonel read the letter which described the e%
istence of the distress in that locality to be beyond conception,
and that notwithstanding all the exertions of the poor lineo"
weavers they were unable to procure sustenance, owing to the
high price of provisions.) When he (Colonel Verner, last ad-
dressed the House, he took the liberty of saying a few words 01;
behalf of the Irish landlords, and he repeate°
that they did their duty and exerted themselves to the
best of their means, and ten times more than their
means would permit them, •but what could they do to re-
lieve, such an overwhelming amount of destitution as that whie."
prevailed in Ireland ? He asserted that the wealth of this
country, to which Ireland had been so long united, ought t.°
be extended to mitigate the evils of the emergency. For his
own part, he rejoiced to see the unanimity which prevailed ott
both sides of the House to relieve the destitution, and he was
ready to support any measures for that object, no matter from
what political party they proceeded.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said that some Hon. Gentleman had
expressed au opinion that the House was not aware of the ex-
tent of the misery which prevailed in Ireland. For his own
part he never concealed his opinions respecting it, and invaria-
bly said that it was scarcely possible to overstate the amount
of suffering that existed in some parts of that country.
It was most painful to him to receive the intelligence which
every post brought him, and be could not convey to the
House the feelings with which such accounts impressed him'
If the statements were put forward with a view to induce G°'
vernment to exert themselves the mere, he could assure th°6,l
who made them that it was not because the Government were
in ignorance of them, or were disinclined to relieve them, lA'
because of the limited powers at their command, which pre-
vented them from giving that aid which would adequate it
meet the calamity. They had, nevertheless, made an effoe,
on an enormous scale, and there were, at that mornee"
600,000 persons employed, receiving relief from the G: lulls'
verument money. That was an enormous debit
t e
could not be made without taxing very much re
resources of this country; but when the people we
dying by hundreds and thousands, every exertion must banesd el
and every sacrifice submitted to, to avert so tremendous !
calamity. He was satisfied, then, that if they had not bee!:
able to prevent all those scenes of suffering, and destitution, an
_if
death, the sight of which pained them so much, nevertheless
they were able to mitigate much of the misery by the rneesur,
which was passed at the close of the last session of Parliament.%loco
e
This measure was the principal, but not the only one by
they had been able to extend relief. Soup kitchens had been
1
established under the direction of relief committees, who 'L50
a
were enabled, by grants from Government, to effect a great sett,
of good, by administering assistance to the most destitute. ILL.
the efforts of any Government to relieve such an exteysebv:
calamity, must be very limited. The true cause of
distress, as had been observed, was the high price of provisliohnsi
Was it in Ireland alone that the rate of provisions was high
Let them look at France—in industrious France they ‘Vg%
exceedingly high—and it is absolutely impossible by the wee
forts of the Government to keep the rate of provisions lesevr_ti
Ireland while it is high in the other European states, from
whence we are accustomed to draw our supplies. As rei
might they attempt to keep the level of the Irish Ch
higher higher than that ef the Atlantic Ocean. It was impure,
such a country as Ireland—so poor, and circumstanced
existence
was in respect of her social condition—to prevent the
trO.
of the greatest distress. The Hon. Gentleman wheell;,,er.
duced the subject to the House, the Zlember for May of(
the
Dillon Browne) called the particular attention
which
House to the destitute state of the county
e as quite
he represented, namely the' county of Mayo.
willing to admit that at all times that county had lisuffeTedom. Pere.
than any other in Ireland. It was also true that manyt t
deaths which had occurred from starvation, a very The
eapenrusewns
ber of them had occurred in the county of Mayo.
to the class of mendicants, which at all times arceoan
But -
who had, for the most part, perished from starvatiovner,:enluorangered..
ous bony, and maintain a very precarious condition.
during the present calamity they had no
procuring a subsistence, the doors
heretofore they were
th veryPooreS
accustomed to obtain charity from
every place against them, although here e
means
were chlaotseevde r 1:Inf

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