The Sun.
London, England, 1824-05-11 00:00:00

FRENCH PAPERS.

( From the Moniteur of Saturday, May 8.)
The Official Part contains a Royal Ordinance
relative to the officers not in active service, or
having unlimited furloughs, the number of whom,
on the Ist January 1824, was 5,430.
The preamble states in substance, that the
vacancies in the active army are so few, that but
a small proportion of the officers in question can
hope to be restored to active service, and yet
without any certain advantage they are subject
to all the obligations inherent in their situation
of disposable officers, that to admit them into the
Cadres of the army would injure the rights of
those whose services have not been interrupted ;
that the officers not employed should be placed
in a situation where, still enjoying the, allowance
that has been granted them, they may return to
civil life and embrace other professions—and
that in thus releasing them frdm their obliga-
tions, it is proper to limit the duration of to.
allowance. The measures to be adopted for this
purpose are comprehended in three articles.
The non-official part is chiefly filled with ex-
tracts from the English Papers, and the Debates
of the Chamber of Peers on Thusday, 6th May.
[From the Constitutionnel.l
R io J A NIERO, FEB. 25.—(Extract from a Pri-
Vaie Lelier.)—tc The Cecile, a French ship
which left Havre, is arrived here, and I still am
without a letter. The following is the reason:—
A. denunciation seems to have been dispatched
from France against this ship, or some of the
owners of cargoes ; some say that this denuncia-
tion bears that there is on board the said ship
merchandise sealed with a false seal of the Cus-
toms, others that there are false invoices; but
what is certain is, that on the arrival of the
Cecile, contrary to established usage, the na-
tional guard of the customs proceeded on board
with guards and subaltern officers, demanding
that the trunks and goods of the passengers
should immediately be delivered over to him,
and they were conveyed to the Custom-house,
with the passengers themselves, and no person
allowed to communicate with them. Their trunks
and effects, on arriving at the Custom-house,
were visited—an extraordinary measure—in pre-
sence of the Judge of the Custom-house, the
Administrator, the. Porter, and several other of-
ficers, and this visit, at which even letters were
opened, continued extraordinarily till 7 o'clock
in the evening, while the Custom-house is ordi-
narily shut at three o'clock. I presume, then,
that my letter will not be delivered to me by
Captain Sevry till he get rid of the inquisition,
in which he is now involved.

" Every day French ships of war arrive here ;
already we have in our Roads the frigates
L'Astree and La Magicienne, the corvettes La
Prudente, La Diligente, and L'Esperance, and
the brig L'lnconstant. We expect two ships
and other frigates, and we know not what we
are to think of this collection of naval force ;
perhaps we owe their presence to the inquiries
instituted on board the Cecile."
_ _ ( From the Etoile of Sunday, May 9.)

The Piedsnontese deserters, about 50 in num-
ber, who were found among the Spanish pri-
soners, returning to their country, and were de-
tained at Perpignan, left that town on the 28th
of April, under escort, and were sent to Spain.
It is expected that we shall shOrtly see the
answer of the Portuguese Government to the
first overtures which have been sent by the Bra-
zilian Commissioners, who are now in London.
" The undersigned Commissioners of his Ca-
tholic Majesty, for the affairs relative to the
Royal Loan of Spain, and Chargé d'Affaires of
the Caine cr.imortissentent of the same kingdom
at Paris, has the honour to inform the public, by
virtue of the special powers with which he is fur-
nished, that the first half year's interest of the
obligation of the Royal Spanish Loan contracted
by Mr. Louis Guehard, which was to be paid at
Madrid on the Ist January, 1825, will be paid
at Paris on the Ist July, 1824. By virtue of the
same powers the undersigned has charged the
house of Baguenault to effect the payment of this
first half year's interest. The mode of payment
will be stated in a future notice.

" Paris, iiay 7, 1824. " XAVIER DE BURGOS."
M. J. Lahora, the Spanish Consul-General,
declares the signature of M. X. de Burgos to be
authentic.

-•
P.lll-IS, MAY B.—French Five per Cents. evened at 103h90e.;
closed at 103 f. 95c.—Bank Stock, 1,980.—Neapolitan Five per
Cents. in . francs, 101 f. 50c. ; in ducats, 9q.—ltente d'Esp.,
71.--Royal .Spanish Loan, 1823, 85i.-:-,Exchange on London:
one thonth, 25f. 25c.,' three ditto, 25f. 10c•—( Cour' AuThen-
gigue, Wok&

Petitions, praying for relief, were presented by the Earl of
DARNLEY, from the Separatists of Maryborougli, Clare, and
Portarlington, in Ireland ; and by the Marquis of Dow N-
- from the Separatists of Wexford and Kildare.
Colonel LYGoN and others brought some private Bills from
the Commons, which were read a first time.
The Militia Pay Bill, the Sugar Bounties Bill, and the Li-
verpool Pilots Bill, were read. a third time and passed.
The Earl of HA REWOOD presented a petition from Hud-
dersfield in favour of the Game Bill, and another petition from
the Licensed Victuallers of Halifax, the object of which was
net heard.—Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
__ DERRY CATHEDRAL.

Sir G. HILL, in moving the second reading of the Bill pro-
viding for the repairs of Derry Cathedral, expatiated at some
length on the propriety of the measure. Some years ago the
Bishop had caused a spire to be erected, but the work was so
badly performed, that it was obliged to be taken down, and the
Cathedral was at present without a spire. The roof was also in
a very dilapidated state. If the bill we:e suffered to go to a Com-
mittee up stairs, the necessity which existed for the measure
would be clearly proved.
Dr. LUSHINGTON opposed the bill. It was quite clear
that since the erection of the Cathedral there moat have been
some specific fund set apart for its repair, because it was im-
possible that it could have remained from that period up to the
present time without receiving repairs or sustentation of any
kind. What, then, had become of that fund ? Why should
Parliament be called on to furnish the 'means of repairing the
Cathedral, when it was clearly the duty of the Bishop or the
Dean and Chapter to do so ? He defied the Right Hon. Bart.
who brought this measure forward to point out any instance
in which Parliament had been requested to tax the people
at large for the sustentation of a church. It seemed that the
Bishop had formerly built the spire. Now it was clear
to him from this fact, that there was some regulation which
bound him to do so; and the same regulation, he presumed,
would apply to the repairs of the cathedral generally. He could
not suppose that the building of the spire was a mere voluntary
act. He could not suffer the onus of repairing the cathedral to
be transferred from the Dean and Chapter, where it properly
rested, to the shoulders of the people at large. For the last two
years, it appeared, the service of the Established Church was
performed in the Presbyterian meeting-house in Derry.—
(Hear !)—Such was the neglect, the criminal neglect, of those
under whose superintendence the Cathedral was placed, that it
was suffered to fall into decay, and the service was actually per-
formed in the Presbyterian meeting-house. He meant to say
nothing harsh of the Dean and Chapter, or of the Bishops, but
it certainly was their first duty to take care that the Cathedral
was kept in a proper state of repair. Nothing tended more to
bring the Clergy into disrepute than their overlooking the re-
pairs of places of worehip, It was quite unworthy of their clia-
racter.—(Hear !)—The Bishop was bound, if it were necessary
to compel measures to be taken for the repair of the Cathedral.
A letter, written by an lion. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Daw-
son) on this subject had been published in the newspapers.
That letter contained an opinion which should have satisfied
the promoters of the bill that it was an inexpedient measure,
and ought to have induced them to abandon it. The sentiments
expressed in that letter did credit to the feelings of the honoura-
ble writer. The whole of the bill was most obnoxious. Ile
should therefore move as an amendment, " that it be read a
second time this day six months ;" and on that proposition he
would take the sense of the House.
Alderman WOOD observed, that the Irish Society felt con-
siderable objections to particular pales of this measure. That
society had been reproached for not advancing funds for the
repairs of the cathedral, but they had no right to appropriate
their funds to that purpose. A series of resolutions had been
agreed to by the Mayor and
-
Corporation of Derry, and pub-
fished in the Derry newspapers, which reflected, in the most
abusive terms, on the Corporation of the City of London and
the Irish Society. These resolutions charged the Corpora-
tion as holding estates, in perpetuity, to the amount of 8,0001.
or 10,0001. a.year, and then went on to ask hoW that money
was laid out; anti the answer was,
(A laugh.)—The fact, however was different. The Irish So-
ciety received, in perpetuity, 4 in eating and drinking.—
2,a001. a year for property which
was really worth '20,0001. a year at this moment. Almost the
whole city of Londonderry,
which belonged to the Corporation
of London, had been disposed of by very improvident persons,
at a rate greatly below its true value. For his own part, he
really believed that some of them had received an Irish bribe.
.—(A laugh.)—One of them, he believed, on his return from
settling those bargains, found in his house a considerable quan-
tity of Irish linens. From the other leases, the Irish Society
received 3,3001. ; these two sums of 9,300/. and 3,3001. were
the total amount of their receipti, with the exception of the
fishery. The Right llon. Baronet well knew the value of
that fishery. It was let for 1,2001. a year ; but he could prove,
that individuals, at the present moment, were willing to give
6,0001. a year for it. The Irish Society had, out of this in-
come of 6,0001. a-year, built a school and rectory on the Cole-
raine estate.
Mr. S. BOURNE could not agree to establish such a pre-
cedent as would unquestionably be established if this Bill were
agreed to.—(Hear, hear !)—lt was the duty of the Dean and
Chapter to repair the church. That was the primary object for
which their revenues were granted. lie recollected, when part
of the cathedral of Hereford fell down, that it was repaired
without any application being made to Parliament for assist-
ance ; and it was a well known fact, that the Dean and Chap-
ter of Winchester were spending thousands annually on the re-
pairs of the cathedrel.—(Hear, hear !)—How was it proposed to
carry on the repairs of the cathedral of Derry in future ? Why,
the expense was to be thrown on the successors of the present
Dean and Chapter. This,he thought, was not a very decorous
mode of proceeding. In his opinion the Dean and Chapter
were not entitled to touch a farthing of their revenues until the
cathedral was repaired.—(Hear, hear !)---If a precedent of this
kind were once established. it would be the means of inducing
Deans and Chapters to neglect the repairs of those magnificent
pieces of architecture to which they paid so much attention at
present
Mr. LITTLETON-never gave a vote with greater plea-
sure than he should feel this evening in supporting the amend-
ment of the Learned Gentlemen. It. was most disgraceful in
those whose duty it was to repair the cathedral to suffer it al-
most to fall, and then, with unblushing effrontery, 'to apply to
Parliament for assistance.—(lT ear !)-__The people, it appeared,
were to be taxed for the purpose of effecting those repairs ; but
the promoters of the Bill had introduced a clause especially
exempting the present Dean from contributing any part of the
expence. The Right Hon. Baronet had alluded to the cathe-
dral of Lichfield as a precedent for the present measure; but
the fact was, not only that Lord Cornwallis, the late Bishop of
Lichfield, contributed to the repairs to almost the whole extent'
of his revenue, but that a great proportion of the Chaptet re-
venue, now and hereafter, was avilable for such repairs as were
necessary—(Hear !)—The Dean and Chapter of that cathedral
would feel ashamed to conic to Parliament with such an appli-
cation as the present_(llear !)
Sir J. NEWPORT said, that in consequence of the careless.
should
ylodfo
hftaltihvi ebinweochsnto
asaillpreoli,tellinlettidootfthem had vanished. Funds which
keep those sacred edifices in repair,
the repairs of Cathedrals'had too
often been appropriated to the purpose of private emolument ;
and then the House was called on, artfully enough, to furnish
money for repairs, because no inquiry was: instituted ns to what
had become of those funds. Stuns were levied on entire
parishes for this purpose; but from those parochial proceedings
the whole body of the Boman Catholics were excluded. They
were liable to contribute their money, but they had no controul
whatever over the disbursement or application of the fund. It
was, he conceived, a great hardship to throw the burden of re-
. , pairing a church on individuela who were of adifferent religion.
It was a ehanie that in 6o rich a diocese as Derry it had beceme

necessary to apply to the Presbyterian body for the use "
of their
chapel.--(Hear!)—Gentlemen were taunted entertaining a
wish to degrade the Church of Ireland ; hut who wits now en-
deavouring to degrade it ! Was it not degraded in the eyes of
the community, by coming before Parliament with such a de-
mand as this ?—(Hear !)
Mr. DAWSON said, he feared the citizens of Derry would
be left without a place of worship unless the House came to
some prompt decision on the subject. At present the citizens
had in fact no Church, for it happened that the Cathedral,
which was in a dilapidated state, was tke only Church within
the walls, and no service had been performed there for two
years: the consequence was, that it was found necessary to ap-
ply to the Presbyterian congregation for the use of their chapel.
--(Hear !)—The citizens were not able to. repair the Cathedral ;
and thus 7,000 or 8,000 people were, without a regular place of
worship. The difficulty of the case was, to devise some mode.
of giving them a Church, without saddling them with the ex-
pence. As a letter written by him had been alluded to, he
begged to say a few wordsrelative to it. He regretted that letter
had made its appearance in public. It was a letter written for a
private and local purpose, and lie was sorry that it had been
published but as it had been given to the public, he must say
that he was prepared to support the opinions which were there
stated.—(Hear !)—lle.felt no hesitatiori is stating his opinion
to the Bishop or Dean of Deny. He thought the revenues
of the Church should, when it was necessary, be applied to the
purpose
,of repairs.—(Hear, hear !)—That this was not done,
in the present case, was the more extraordinary, as the riches of
that diocese were notorious.—(Hear !)—lie never had shrunk
from his' duty in supporting die Established Church, but lie
could not avoid telling the Bishop and Dean that they ouglit to
do something for their cathedral. He was glad that he had an
opportunity of saying thus much. He hoped the debate would
go forth to the public; and that those who were interested in
the matter would weigh the opinions which had been expressed
this day. He concurred in the sentiments which had fallen
from the Honourable Gentleman opposite, and also from his
Hon. Friend near him, (Mr. S. Bourne). He trusted those
sentiments would have the effect- of bringing
,the dean and
clergy to a proper sense of their duty. The intention of the
present Bill was, to make the parishioners liable for present
and future repairs; and he could wish, whether it was agreed
to or not, that the House would take some steps to put this
ancient edifice in repair.
Mr. PLUNKETT expressed his entire concurrence in the
opinions of the Hon. Baronet opposite (Sir J. Newport), and
-ofhis Right Ilonourable Friend near him (Mr. S. Bourne).— ,
The Church of Ireland ought, he conceived, to be vindicated
from any participation in a measure of this kind. lie was glad
to have that opportunity of rendering justice to the highly re-
spectable individual who was at the head of the diocese of Lon-
donderry. It was but common justice to say, that there was
not an individual in Ireland or in England who acted with more
uniform generosity, who was more utterly regardless of private
interest and expence, or who delighted more iri works of chari-
ty and benevolence. He (Mr. Plunkett) thought it was a most
improper thing that those economy funds, as they were called,
were not sought after, and properly bestowed. Those funds,
he believed, were frequently misappropriated. lie felt that
no person could do the Church greater service at the present
moment, or at any other time, (but more especially at the pre-
sent hour, when general attention was called to the subject),
than by showing the clergy the necessity of entrenching them-
selves on public opinion by their good conduct.—( Hear, hear!)
Sir G. HILL, as we understood, intimated his willingness to
withdraw the Bill. ,
Mr: HUME denied having made use of any expressions (in
his speech of a former evening) which even bordered upon dis-
respect towards the Lord Bishop of Derry ; but he was confi-
dent that every circumstance about the state of the church of
Ireland called for inquiry; and they were the real enemies of
that church who refused to accede to it. If the Hon. Gentle-
men who had spoken in favour of the present Bill had supported
his (Mr. Hume's) Motion of Thursday evening, such an in-
quiry might probably have been obtained as would have led to
the accomplishment of their object.
Mr. W. SMITH would tr.nible the House with very few
words, as the Bill was about to be withdrawn. Here was an
open attack made upon a highly respectable body of 'persons
an inquiry into the duties of the Irish Society of London to-
' wards the City of Londonderry. Now all he would pray was,
that the inquiry asked for might go forward, that, the inquiring
Committee might be instructed to ascertain by whose delin.
quency the cathedral of Derry had been suffered to fall into
utter ruin, and that the parties by whose fault the dilapidation'
had occurred might be bound to pay the expence of the repairs.
With respect to the accommodation for public worship in the
mean time, the Hon. Member had no doubt that the facilities
now given by the Presbyterians would be continued.
The Bill was then withdrawn by consent.
Mr. Alderman WOOD brought in several Bills to enable the
City of London to borrow money at 4,i per cent., to pay off the
charge upon the Orphans' Fund, and for various other pur-
poses.

CORPORATE COM PAN lES.
Lord STAN LEY having moved the second reading of the
Bill for incorporating the Manchester and Salford Loan Com-
pany,
Mr. HUSKISSON said that he should certainly object to
Bills passing for incorporation, unless where charter was first
regularly obtained from the Crown. This was the old and the
regular course of Parliamentary proceeding. Having obtained
their charter froni the King in Council, the Company came to
the House of Commons for further powers, and he (Mr. Ilus-
kisson) saw no reason for deviating fron► the established prac-
tice. Legislative incorporations involved numberless difficul-
ties, many of which could scarcely be dealt with. A charter
from the Crown might be revoked, if it was abused, or if the
Company failed to fulfil their undertakings with the public,
but this could not be done in the case of a legislative enact-
ment ; and to authorise an unlimited number of trading com-
panies in such a manner, would be to do a most material mis-
chief to the country. He held, for instance, in his hand the
charter of the first Company which had been formed for light-
ing the City of London with gas. According to the letter of
that document, the power was given by the King, and might
be revoked by the King in case the Company abused it. Here,
then, was a means by which that particular Company could be
dealt with ; but how could Government deal with about forty
companies (not royally chartered) since,which had been formed
for lighting different parts of England by gas ? Companies
were going on to form themselves into corporations for every
purpose=-no matter what—of trade : how was the public to
proceed in case they neglected to fulfil their conditions ?
Parties might go to law, and get a verdict ; but how and where
were they to levy ? In conclusion, (the Right Hon. Gentle-
man said) he would not object to giving bodies, who might
be about to do business on a large scale, the power of suing
and being sued collectively ; but he certainly should oppose the
taking every wild and idle speculation that might offer.itself,
out of the general operation of the laws of the country.
After a Lew words from Lord STANLEY, the Bill was read a
second time, and ordered to be committed.
WEST INDIA COMPANY BILL.

Mr. MANNING, after a few observations., which were in-
audible in the gallery, moved the second reading of the West '
India Company bill.
Mr. HUSKISSON did not mean to say that there might not
exist a strong case on the part of this particular company for
incorporation ; but he could see nothing at present which took
it out of the rule which he had just laid down with respect to
the Manchester and Salford Loan Bill. Without attempting
to judge the question of the policy of incorporating a West
India Company, he took the objection which he had before
urged generally—that the origin of it was irregular, and that
the parties must be required to begin with obtaining first of all
their charter from the Crown ; and if it should be found that
its powers were insufficient, they would then be entitled to
come to Parliament either for the enlarging or confirming of
those powers.
Mr. ELLICE understood from the Right Hon. Gentleman,
that the Gas Bill to which he had referred in his first observa-
tions, had been granted conditionally'—that is to say, if the
Company could not obtain a charter from the Crown, then the
powers of the bill were to be inoperative. Why not allow this
bill to proceed upon the same conditions ?
Mr. HUSKISSON repeated his objection to allowing any
bill for incorporation, which was not preceded by a charter ob-
tained from the Crown.
Mr. SYKES thought that the bill could not be alloled
to proceed to a second reading. He looked upon it as an
aggressive and encroaching measure, introduced, under the
modest garb of a private bill, to the great prejudice of Ole
public interests. lie could not at all conjecture how it tend-
ed to give any relief to the West India proprietors which
_dig_
could not obtain quite as easily at present. His chief
nand
tions to. it were on public grounds. Ile disliked
which the accumulation of so large a capital as
give to the' Company over the West India trade; 1' w
4,oooth,eogliwkontielwd

that no undertaking could be more hazardous than such as.
ItiveStment, and' it was a still stronger objection that the cre-
ditors of the- company would have no security for their debts,
excepting the preperty comprised in the act of incorporation.—
The separate .Members would be rendered individually jrre-
sponsible. Was it to be endured that the unfortunate people
who might be induced to intrust them with their property,
without ever Supposing that they were not responsible indivi
dually, should be left in a state so disadvantageous ? He knew
himself of parties who had such a Mayor and Corporatione and
recovered from them : but still the Mayor and Corporation
laughed at the success of the suitor, because their corporate-
property and responsibility only being in question, there was
nothing upon which he could seize of sufficient value to meet
his demand. Not one in a thousand who could deal with this
Company would be aware that the members were not answer-
able individually for their debts. But they had more than this
to dread. This influence of so formidable a Company eve,.
the \Vied India trade would be extremely detrimental. 'What
individual merchant could compete with a Company possessing
4 millions of capital ? Then it was to be observed that this. ca-
pital was to be divided into 40,000 shares at 1001. each. He did
not wish to say any thing at present upon the West India sys-
tem, but lie could not but observe that against the dictates of
reason and sound policy it was yet very strongly supported.—
It was a subject, the interest of which had crept into that House
and hold many to it on both sides of the House: He did not
wish for the success of this new plan, which would tend to spread
its influence over the whole population of the country, and by
that means become it considerable accession of power in a quarter
already too strong. . It was a plan, in short, for enlisting 40,000
perkins on the side of the present West India syitem. What
necessity"coukl there be for making these new:levies to serve
ander.the bzUfners of the West Indian army ? If money were
wanted, it could be borrowed on good security at present, and
on terms quite as reasonable as this company could afford. The
ulterior dangers, however," which were greatest, were those of
injuring the West India trade. and the interests:of our manu-
factures as tar as they were connected with it, and *strengthen-
ing another interest, which, with respect to justice and huma-
nity, might be regretted as being already. oo strong.
Mr. GRENFEI.I, said, that it was suggested- that the esta-
blishment of this cempativ tended to make the condition of
negro slaver}, in the I)est "tidies worse than at present. If it
should turn out on examination of the subject at any future
time, that he could be brought to that opinion, he was one of
the last men in the world who would support it—:he would in-
stantly withdraw his name ,from it. But as lie thought that
there was a good oppertunity for. eMploying a portion of that
capital which was now floating about for want of some oppor-
tunity of investment, he would support it; especially as he
had heard nothing to induce him to believe that it would make
the condition of slavery worse in Ireland—(Laughter)--he
meant to say, in the West Indies.
Mr. T. WILSON defended the plan as one of peculiar eon..
venience and accommodation to the West India proprietors,
who would, but for this establishment, be obliged to go hawk-
ing about their securities, and by that means incur the disagree-
able suspicion of being in insolvent circumstances.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS opposed the bill, and promised to
oppose it at every stage. How could a company carry on the
business of plantations better than expert individuals ? Did it
become Parliament to sanction the pretence of a more profitable
investment of capital, which might sweep scores of helpless fa-
milies into its vortex if it should not. be successful ? But lee
chiefly objected because it offered an obstacle to the gradual
amelioration and final abolition of slavery. It was in vain to
look for any such result, if the estates in the West Indies should
have to be managed. by a company residing here, actuated solely
by a sense of pecuniary interest, instead of being subjected, as
they were at present, to the occasional visits of an, enlightened
and humane proprietor, educated with all the moral advantages
which generally went to.form the character of an English Gen-
tleman. Instead of this, should the company be incorpbratctl,
every thing would be left to sordid and unfeeling agents ;
and all the hopes which had been entertained in regard to
the unfortunate slaves would give place as the abuses which
had been the subject or complaint in Parliament for thirty
years past. • • -
Mr. W. wn ITM ORE strongly opposed the Mill, because
it threatened the freedom and general interests of the sugar-
trade, and tended to establish a baneful monopoly. It was
well known that the West India sugar market had.produced an
excess of the article for several years past, which was now,
however, rapidly diminishing. Let this company be establish-
ed, and not only would the :excess be diminished to nothing,
but the public might be called upon to pay from" 501. to 1001.
per cent. beyond the natural value of the commodity. He
thought it extraordinary, after the pernicious and lamentable
example of the South Sea scheme, that there should be any at-
tempt in any way to renew the experiment. There was but
one reason of good policy to allow the institution on a joint
stock company. There should be the most unquestionable
proof before granting the charter, that there was no other mode
of carrying{ on the trade so safe or convenient as by an incorpo-
rated company. For want of this precaution, Adam Smith, in
commenting on the
.South Sea Scheme, had asserted, on the
authority of a French author, that froth the year 1680, to his
time, there had been no less than 55 joint Stock Companies in-
corporated in Europe, every one of which had failed.
Mr. A. ELLIS, though indirectly interested in this ques-
tion, could only give his consideration. to it upon public
grounds, upon which grounds he wished it every success.—
The House had it in their power to. pledge his Hon. Friend
either to obtain a charter before the Bill should come out of the
Committee, or to withdraw it altogether. He approved of it
as an admirable means for the employment of barren. capital ;
and the names of successful capitalists in the direction gave a
sufficient promise of advantage and success. He approved of
the Bill because it tended to dift'use more widely a sense of the
importance of the West India Islands, and because it would act
as a caution among the people of this country, not to be too
ready to interpose in the internal Government of those colonies,
to the evident risk of their natural interests ; and he could not
have anticipated that this would have been urged as any objec-
tion to the Bill.

...
Mr. W. SMITH would not have risen at this period of the
evening, to the delay of what was called public business, but
that he thought the Bill before the House related to a measure
far more important than most of the public business they might
be called upon to discuss. He complained that the lateness of
the time at which the Bill had been printed prevented Gentle-
men from having given to the subject the attention it demand-
ed. If the opposition which he felt obliged to offer to it should
be imputed to any hostility he might be supposedto entertain
against the Colonies. he begged to say that nothing could be
more unfounded. Ile did not hesitate to express his firm opi-
nion, that the system which the Colonies were pursuing was
a system which must end in their complete ruin ; and he be-
lieved that the effect of the measure now proposed would be, to
involve them in far greater misery than what they now suffered.
Looking at the proposed company only as a private one, he
could not but think, that whatever advantages oflocal knoWledgt
anirtsta nPe e. hl',ande
they might possess wuultl be more man coonteroatancea oy Rt
prejudices which might be supposed to actuate them. In rime
cases out of ten, it might be reasonably supposed, that they
company than those of the planters. But there wase anotherdto hire still
eatinfvrdosint oicttihis' ei:fooenitiN.n e
a public point of view in • which this measure seer
West ~_
~4
in_
would rather pursue what might appear to be the interestsofatl4
more objectionable. At the present moment
ofthselgver: 'um
supported
' terests enjoyed the advantage of a monopoly
i
by a high protecttnp, duty.
Such circumstances,and
ever before occurred, where, under
.. n article Which Might
with such advantages, a monopoly 111;r1,1 ire,
t had been found
almost be called one of the necess.art '
t to take it ont of the:htuids
to
offail, it had been thought expedien
t into t
lore of a company. whoie
eitittehie-y were to be allowed to buy anerseil
lit is lsltaitnevvoelriyedol oorougyhitht:gironduvue,eu
ewhthete monopolyer
immediate interest it mu,steebinpany
titiootilel asask
could hope to , gain any'dd-
only means by which this company
must be by raising the price- of
individuals, It. tto throHwee
vsuagnatarg,
uHoonn.w(iheincltti
eitht haar di. blefenhebiuoulttit_
roposed
r millions. This consideration, if it were
to the amount of h
the only one whit e upon the Bill ; and for this' 11
reason as we
the House topaus
of ,
as for the shortness
f lt 't his
House, he e i dirty to oppose it.
before the
111 r.
the operation which the Hon-
on which
stood that the bill ,
gentleman had ascribed to it, he should think it was highly-
objectionable' on the general principle. There might be some
ground for his objection to the precipitancy which it but
with
been brought forward ; but tile Honourable Gentleman had
• h lie differed
w a
s fromtl have t the eet
argued as if the effect of the bill was to secure the whole trade
of the West Indies to the company propoSed to be formed. He
had stated that it could not fail to raise theprice of sugar,
bccinuse the Company were to become great dealers in it ;
and with a capital of four- millions, to unite in themselves a
monopoly both as planters and as traders. This was, bovi-
ever, not the intention of the company as far as he (Mr. Bus-

4/:: ::son) understood it. They did not propose to trade at all ;
they never intended to become either the buyers or sellers of
sugar, but to be in precisely the same situation as what were
now called West India houses of agency ; that is to say, they
were to receive the consignments of the produce of West
India estates, as West India agents did, and in that capacity
sthey were to sell them ; but they were not in any case to go
into the market as dealers, or to employ their capital for
the purpose of dealing in West India commodities. Any num-
ber of persons who might choose to unite as partners for the
same purpose would be at liberty to do so ; there could be no
means oflimiting the numbers of such partners, and they might,
by establishing a West India agency, place themselves in pre-
-- cisely the same situation as this Company. The authorities of
Adam Smith and the Abbe Maury had been arrayed against it,
and all the4rguments cautiously urged against monopolies and
joint stock companies had been applied to this. It was, how-
- ever, not only no monopoly, but when thecirctunstances in which
,the West India interests were placed should be fully considered,
he thought the House would be induced to permit the plan to
be carried into effect, in the hope of relieving those interests.
He (Mr. Huskisson) would not support any company whose ob-
_ ject it should be to raise the price of sugar by means of a mono-
poly. But was there, he asked, at this moment nothing in the
condition of the West India proprietors that made it desirable
for the House to encourage (if they could do so without
the violation of any sound principle) any means which
should appear likely to affiird thesis relief, by furnishing them
with a loan of money ? The occasional unproductiveness of
their 'estates, and the consequently insufficient security, had
prevented the owners from borrowing money at the legal rate
of interest. He appealed to the landed interests of England,
and would ask them whether, if such circumstances prevailed
here—if they were in a similar state pressed by their creditors,
and without the means of raising money by the incumbrance
sit' their-estates.-they would think it extraordinary, or impo-
litic, to adopt an expedient which should be devised for afford-
ing them relief by a mortgage of their estates ? This was the
whole; intent of the present Bill. The West India proprietors
hail comelast year to the House with a statement of their dis-
tresses, which could not be more urgent than they were. It
was proposed to relieve them by means of Exchequer bills ; -but
the objection' to that was, that the Government could not lend
'money upon such security as was offered. But as it was a&
nutted That the loan of money would be an immediate and im- '
peraant relief to the West India interests, and now that indivi-
duals were disposed to furnish that relief, he was at a loss to
guess upon what good ground it should be objected to. The claim 1
of those interests to assistance became still more urgent, when it
was remembered that their distress had ensued, rot in conse-
quence of any fault of their own, but of the proceaclings of that
House and of Parliament. It had been said eliewtiere, that
nothing could be more likely to produce the amelioration of the
condition of the slaves than the distress of the West India pro-
ptietors. If he (Mr. Huskisson) entertained any such belief,
he might perhaps be induced to pay some attention to this
--reasoning ; but he besought the House to look well at the situ-
ation of the planters, and say whether, unable as they were to
live.but by means of? loans at exorbitant interests, the slaves
were more likely to be taken care of than if a more prosperous
s tats: of things could be restored to the colonies.—( Hear !)—One
-of the consequences of the distress of the masters was maturally
to aggravate the distress of the slaves ' • and any relief which
should be afforded to the former would be relief to both, be-
cause it would at once enable and induce the masters to co-ope-
rate with the Government at home to alleviate the lot of that
class of beings for the improvement of whose general and phy-
sical conditiOn no man was more anxious than he. Any oppo-
site measures might perhaps drive the planters to despair; but
it was not likely they would therefore remove the distress of the
slaves. With respect to the capital of the proposed Company,
be believed there were houses now in England who employed
nearly as large an amount. Upon these grounds, and without
pledging himself wholly to the support of the Bill, he thought
that it ought now to be suffered to proceed to the second read-
ing. When he was applied to by the persons with whom the Bill
originated, he told them he thought they ought not to ask any
thing from the House beyond what any persons were fairly entitled
'to,-whose numbers were so large that it might be inconvenient
to them to-sue and be sued in their own names. He distinctly
stated, that he was not disposed to grant them any protection
against theoperation of the Bankrupt Laws, nor any other of
the exclusive privileges of a corporation. Having said thus
much, he should- reserve his opinion on the merits of the Bill to
its further stage.
Dr. LUSH INGTON objected to the principle of the Bill,
and reminded the House that if they consented to give this Com-
pany what they now asked, it would perhaps be easy for them to
• obtain the sanction of the Crown,to become a corporation. The
Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Huskisson) had not stated in the
course of his observations what was too well known—that the
Colonias had been a losing concern for some years back ; anti he
ha.l no less carefully abstained from stating his own opinion, that
this proposed advance of-capital would -be enough to keep the
system alive. The legal rate of interest on West India property
-woe now s'ic per rent. ; but he asked, was this the rate at which
money was ever lent ? Were not, in reality, the advances of
money by consignees, and the insurance of the stores, nearer in
amount to ten per cent. ? It was said that West India property
was insecure. Very true, it was so ? and why ? Because the
, returns of the estates were insufficient, and therefore advances
were never made but under the circumstances and upon the
- terms lie had-stated. And how was it that the proposed Com-
- piny was to relieve this state of things ? It must be either
by. raising the price of sugar, or by- becoming the holders of
the-West India estates. If they should become the holders
of those estates, they would in their character of mortgagees,
be unable to exercise all .that privilege of manumitting the
slaves which was exercised by the proprietors, and which was,
in .avery point of view, of the deepest importance. There
were other reasons arising out of -the Bill, upon which he
felt obliged to oppose it. It empowered the Company to
-lend money in any part of the globe; there was no limitation
to the 'Vest Indies ncr to any other colony.—[Mr. Huskis-
son said across the table, as we understood, that any per-
.s wls might lend money on any security they thought proper.]._
The Right Hon. Gentleman -was quite correct, any person
might do so ; bat this Company asked to do it under the au-
thority of Parliament, and in the form of a Corporation. Be-
sides, if so much good was to be expected from such a measure,
why had it not already been tried? What had prevented those
Slentlemen who proposed to fiirm the new Company from hay-
ingamade advances ? Ile objected particularly to that power
in the Bill which, under certain circumstances, would enable
the company to hold the estates on which they were to lend
money, in mortua mane, until the Attorney-General should
file an information, or a foreclosure of the mortgage should be
decreed by a Court of Equity. The Hon. and Learned*Gen-
tleman coocluded by declaring his intention to vote against the
further progress of the Bill.
Mr. F. BUXTON, after the length to which-the discussion
. had proceeded, would in a few words only protest against the
measure as highly detrimental to the interests of the slaves. In
the first place, by enhancing their value it would make the
chance of their manumission more remote; and in the second,
by placing them in the power—not of their owners, but, of per-
sons who would nut have the power, even if they had the incli-
nation, to give them their freedom, it would render their situa-
tion far more hopeless than it was at present. He should,
therefore, feel it to be his duty to oppose the Bill at every pos-
sible•opportunity.
Mr. W. HORTON objected to the question of the slaves
being. mixed up with the principle of the bill before the House.
—lie looked upon the measure as one which would place the
West India planters in the same situation as a mortgagee in
.this country, and it afforded them this additional advantage,
that they might transfer their securities with facility and advan-
tage. He considered that this was not the time to go at any
length into the details of the bill, which there would be many
-other opportunities of discussing, and expressed his intention
of voting for the second reading.
. 'Mr. EVANS considered the bill to be so objectionable, that
. fore take the sense of the House on the question of reading the
. Order of the day.
The gallery was then cleared for a division, but Mr. EvaNs
declined to press it, end the order of the clay was therefore read.
On the question that the bill be read a second time,
Plr. MANNING said a. few words inaudible in the gallery.
Mr. gYKES opposed- the Bill. He apprehended that the
immense capital of the Company, and the influence which it
.
• would consequently procure them, would enable them to obtain
a monopoly of the market tbr "West India produce(;f
the ThebWornees_t
Indian merchants already possessed a monopoly
market ; there would, therefore, be a monopoly within a mo-
nopoly—an imperium in irnperzo. Another consequence of the
passing of the incorporation- of the Company would be to
Increase the quantity of sugar, which could not, he conceived,
be.benelicial to any party. Under these circumstances, he felt
it his dutyto move that the-Bill be read a second time this day
six months.'

• Alt-. HUSICISSON said a few words in explanation..
Mr. W. SMITH differed from the-Right Iron. Gentleman
with respect to the construction of the clause.
Mr. P. MOORE remarked, that in this case, as in all Joint
~Stock Companies, there would be a liability proportioned to
'and limited 14 the advance.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House di-
vided.Tlte,numbers were--
For the Bill - 102
• Agairist it

. . . _
• Dlajority - .. .31?
- -72
The'Dill was then read a second time ancLcommitted.
THE ASSESSED TAXES.
• Lord HOTHAM rose to present a Petition, praying for the
.Icpea.-1 of the A &sessed Taxes.
.114 r. CANNING said, that he was willing to throw open
the doors ottliat House as wide as possible for the admission

of petitions, but he really thought, that since the Hon. 'Mem.' shall cease and determine. That it is expedient, that from and
ber had not thought fit to present the petition at an earlier after the sth day of January; 1825, the duties on servants,
period, he should now refrain from presenting it until a future carriages, coach/rakers' licenets, horses, mules, together with
evening. He bad no objection to the particular petition which all compositions for the said duties, shall cease and determine."
the Member held in his hand; but he feared, that if one peti- Mr. LEYCESTER seconded the motion.
tion referring to public matters Were presented that evening The CHANCELLOR -of the EXCHEQUER said, that the
(after the time which had already been occupied in the dis- ,Hon. Member who had brought forward the motion had merely
cussion of the West India' Company Bill), the whole of the agitated the same question which had come under the considera-
petitions of a similar nature which Hon. Members had to pre- tion of' the House about six weeks ago, upon a motion made by
sent would follciw, an& that would retard the:commencement of the Hon. Member -for Westminster (Mr. Hobhouse.) Upon
public business until an unusually late and inconvenient hour.— that occasion he had stated the reasons why he could not consent
(Hear!) to the proposed repeal of the assessed taxes „and nothing had
Lord HOTHAM said, he had been inStrueteetheohis consti. Sihceotedreeno invalidatethose reasons. The grounds upon
tuents not to present the petition until that evening. He wished which the Hon. Member for Westminster rested his motion
to know whether he was in order in presenting it ? were precisely similar to those which the Hon. Member for
j .The SPEAKER said, that the Hon. Member was at liberty Abingdon had that night advanced hi support of his proposi-
to present the petition if he pleased- It was the first public tions. The Hon. Member foe' Westminster, however, had not
petition which had been presented that evening 7, and-he had been able to persuade the House to agree to his proposition, anti
three papers, containing a list of 46 Members, who' wished, to he could see no reason why the efforts of the Hon. Meniber
i present similarpetitions.—(A laugh.) for Abingdon should be. attended with a happier result.—. Lord HOTHAM then presented the petition, Which was (Hear!)—He was not quite accurate when he said that the
from the inhabitants of the Borough of Leominster: motion of the Hon. Member was preeiSely • the same as that
Mr. JERVOICE presented two petitions, also praying for which had been made by the Hon. Member for Westminster.
the repeal of the Assessed Taxes, from the inhabitants of Solis- The latter Hon. Member proposed the repeal of the House and
bury and Winchester. Window Duties only, but the Hon. Member for Abingdon
A MEmBER on the Opposition Benches expressed a wish wished to extend the repeal to every other article constituting
that Members would desist from presenting petitions at that the Assessed Taxes. If the argument which he (the Chancellor
late hour of the evening.—(Hear !)
Mr. CANNING observed,. that as the House:had permitted a motion which had for its object a repeal of taxation to the
one petition to be presented, he could not see how they could amount of two millions, they must apply with greater force to
stop the presentation of mores.s one which was intended. so effect a repeal of taxes to the extent
Mr. HUME hoped that, for the sake of public convenience, of,three millions and a half. He really thought he was not
no more petitions would be presented. Ile had six himself called on to argue the question at all after the recent dedeion-
which he Would reserve for another occasionth—(A laugh.) of the House.—(Hear !)—lle would detain the House for a very
• . Mr. CANNING appealed- to the Speaker, to know what short time while he alluded to one- or two points of the 'Hon.
course the House ought to adept without appearing to act un- Member's speech. The Hon. Member had asserted that the
fairly towards those Gentlemen who had titions to present. Sinking Fund, or, more protterly speaking, the excess of revenue
. The SPEAKER suggested, that any Member who had any over expenditure had produced- no -diminution Of debt. The
thing to move should get up and move it. Hon. Member bad compared the amount of the debt at the
Mr. MABERLY immediately rose and at the same time present moment with its amount in 1819. That was not a fair
several Members, with petitions in their hands; also rose.— mode of dealing With the • snbjecto He should have gone back
There was, however, a loOd cry for Mr. !Moberly, and after to 1816, *hen a sin-plus of revenue first existed. Since 1816,
some time the Hon. Members who had risen gave way, and 25,000,000/. ,of unftencled. debt had- been redeemed, together
.
/. of unfunded debt. This reduction had been
Mr. MABERLY proCeeded. • He rose, in pursuance of with 14,500,090
ffe
notice, to move for the repeal of a certain portion of the taxes effected by means of the surplus of revenue over expenditure,
Which were now paid by the people of this country. He in- let -it be called by what. name, ,or nickname, if it would
.
the please the Hon. 3lembee, it might. The Hon. Member had
tended to deal with the subject. in the largest possible way
His object was to procure the repeal of the whole of the
also • alluded to the- Exchequer Bills, which on the Ist of
.
Jan. 1818, were,. for Great Britain and Ireland, 52,082,0091.
Assessed Taxes. In the course of his address lie would allude
They now were 34,944,0001., being a greater reduction than
to the financial scheme whicn the Chancellor of the Exchequer
iin the course of the present Session ; he would he (the Chancellor of the' Exchequer) had, spoken of. Be-
had propoundec
sides this; it was perfectly true that there was a considerable
also state the view which he entertained of the sinking fund,
-
and endeavour to prohe the expediency of remitting the taxes diminution of charge„for, which they were indebted to the
which he had mentioned. At the commencement of the Session' Sinking Fund. ;He alluded to the reduction of the interest,
• the Chancellor of the Exchequer. had exhibited a precis which for though might be thought that that was not referable to
contained his plan respecting the expenditure and revenue fcr the Sinking Fundt - yetit was impossible to say that the Sink-
the next four years. If the Chancellor of the Exchequer's' ing Fund had nothing to do with that saving ; for had not the
precis were to be adhered to, it would be in vain for the country Sinking Fund been in existence, he doubted if he would have:
to hope for the repeal of any taxes until the. year 11129. i been in the. situation, to have allowed of the operation taking
The Right Hon. Gentleman had estimated that on .•the sth of place. The Hon. Member said that by adopting Isis plan, it
woaid give such an elevation to the funds that they might he
Jan. 1828, he would have a balance of reve.nue over expenditure
amounting to 4,135,9991. The Right Hon. Gent. had formed- enabled to reduce the inteneet of the 3 per cents. He (the
this estimate with reference to the existence of a Sinking Fund Chancellor of the Excbequer)- could not say what the plea-
of five millions. The view which he(hlr. M.) entertained was, sure of Parliament might besinder the circumstances stated,
that it would be better, in the present situation of the country, hut this lie knew, that with the Sinking Fund they had re-:
d
to get rid of the Sinking Fund, and to remit taxes to that duced the interest of the debt 1,700,000/. There were many
ktiowing persons who were speculating on the advance of the
amount. He did not consider it necessary. to answer at any
3 , .
length the statements which had been put forth with respect to • per cents. to par, and the lion. Member seemed to think
the pretended benefits which resulted from a Sinking Fund, It.:that a probable result of his plan.. But was the existence.
would take a more able calculator than he was to discover where _of the sinking fund toepreclude that? On the contrary, were
not the funds in that state to lead to the probability of greater
the Sinking Fund had existed since the year 1792. Ile dial-
reduction ? Ile (the Chanceller of the Exchequer) did not
lenged any Member of that House to prove that a Sinking
think that the Hon. Member school made out a .yery strong case
Fund had been in existence from the year 1792 down to 1819.
The House had lately acquired a better notion of the nature of a against his old friend- the Sinking fund.. The Hon. Mem-
Sinking Fund,. which was now acknowledged to be a surplus of -her had told the House, that according to his (the Chao-
revenue over expenditure. In 1792 the amount of the debt was
cellor .of the Exchequers) statement, -they had the gloomy
200,000,0001., and in 1819 it was 000 000 000/. An increase of prospect of no .farther reduction of taxation for the next four
debt of about 600,000,000!. had; therefore, taken place dunng years. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would rather not
deal in prospect; either gloomy or brilliant. But he would sup-
the period when, as it was asserted, the Sinking Fund had been in
operation. The Hon. Member then proceeded to areue, that pose last year, when 3,200,0001 of taxes weeeremitted, the Hon.
owing to the recent rise in the price of the Funds, it . would re-
Member might have said, " Ay, this is all very well, but if
quire a considerably larger sum to pay off the Funded Debt of you keep the sinking fund You .can- repeal no more taxes;" yet
the United Kingdom (taing the value at 20 years' purchase)
I 3,200,0001. had been repealed, and they were now in the situation
at the present moment, than it would have required .n 1810._ of repealing 1,250,00111. more, and the. House had not found any
indisposition on his part to bring it forward. -If the increas.
If the Funds should continue to advanCe, it would - be absurd
to suppose that any reduction of debt could be effected with a ing prosperity of the country would do what the Honoure-
ble Member said it would doe be (the Chancellor of the Ex-
Sinking Fund of five millions. Such a Sinking Fund would
be of no more importance than a drop of water in the ocean.—
chequer) would find himself in the same situation as he had
•
It was not so much the ampunt of the debt as the rate of hi-
already been, when the House might expect, if he had the
terest which was. paid upon it, that Parliament ought to direct,
honour to fill the same s
its attention. By. reducing the rate of interest, the public would he guided by the same prinituation,c that his conduct wouldiple as hitherto it had. Every
be immediately relieved. It was wrong to suppose that the
principle that he had hitherto laid down must lead to the con-.
elusion—which indeed lie had always expressed in the-most un-
venue. The capital which was thus left in tics
of a tax which was abandoned, was -lost
-to the re-
reserved manner—that if
.a tat was very high in proportion to
he . hands of the
the value of the article, I,it, via, per se a very good thing to get
public was employed in such a way as' to prove beneficial to
rid of such taxes. jiasi.sotp.9(l, therefore, the house would
the revenue.. The amount of the 3 per Cents..was 527,000,0001.
and the -interest paid upon them was 15,312,0001. If-.we no: he led-halt by the
staid refer
of toe Honourable Mem-
lier, but that, tatty _ refer to the principles on which
remained at peace, there could,. he_ very little .doubt that he had already acted. One word, before he sat down, on the
the Government would he en..bled in a short time to re-
subject of the House Tex, on which- he thought he had given
duce the interest of .the 3 per Cents. If the interest were re-
duced to 2f, a saving of 1,330,0091. would -be effected ; but if a satisfactory explanation last.year ; but as the Hon. Member
it were reduced to 21, the saving would be 2,635,0001. He had again referred to it, he would re-state what he had then
thought it necessary to say a few words respecting the danger of 'said. It had-been reported to him, that in many • parts of the
trusting the Chancellor of the Exchequer with a large surplus.. country the House-tate, was. unjustly' and unequally levied,
houses of the same Size and
In such a.case the estimates were sever cut down so low as theyquality, in the same street, being
ought to be. Every one knew, from his own experience, that differently rated. This appeared to him to be the very essence
when a private individual possessed a considerable surplus of of injustice, though no one. way charged more than the law al-
income
over expenditure, he became imprudent and extravagant. lased ; and he had considered that, on a re-survey, the in-
Notwithstanding that the Chancellor of the . Exchequer had ^ crease in the total amount would have enabled him to have pro- •
.repealed part of the assessed taxes, he believed that the expenee posed a general decrease of taxation. In that view hehhd .di-
of collecting was actually „rather now than it had formerly •re cted the resurvey t. but when .he heard that it wascomplain-
been. Another proof of the Impropriety of trusting the Chan- ed of, be gave directions that no
.surcharges should be made.—
calor of the Exchequer with a large surplus was to be found in Certainly there -could be no injustiee in making a man, who
the improvident bargain which he had made respecting the had been payins• less than heopetht, pay the proper amount ;
dead weight by which the Right Hon.' Gent. -lost 2,000,000/. and on that point he thought Ins conduct had not merited the
When the Right Hon. Gent._ had stated that he wanted 904{0001. animadversion of the lion. Member.
for Churches, Palaces, and Pictures, there was a strong feel- Mr. HUME contended, that the Right Hon. Gentleman had
ing in the House that the wants of the country , had been committed mistakes in the course .of his calculations, upon
trifled with. He would now state to the House the taxes which which he could set him right. They-had been before told by the
he proposed to repeal. „ They were the house and window Right. Hon. Gentleman that twenty-four millions had been re-
duties, the horse and agricultund horse tax, the tax on car- duced by the means of the sinking 'fund. But - now all at
riages and carts, the tax on coachinakers' licenses, the tax on once it had arisen to thirty-nine millions. Now, he had before
hair-powder and armorial bearings, the composition for the shewn that not one shilling of the interest ,of Debt could have
above; &c., amounting altogether to .3,569,0001. a-year. If the been reduced by the operation -Of' -the' sinking fund, and if he
House should think proper to vote far the repeal of those taxes, had his papers with him then he:would again establish that fact.
he could see no reason why the -whole expellee of collecting He would venture to say that-the Right Hon. Gentleman could
them, amounting to 300,0001., should not also be got rid of. produce no proof of his assertions ',by any document he could
If the taxes should be _repealed, there could be no pretence for put upon the table. There had' been many apparent, but hal-
retaining any part of the :equine,: of collecting them, except, lacioue reductions of interest. The fact was that there had
indeed, for the purpose of affording retired allowances to those been surplusses for several years,-which, by being applied to
who had been engaged in that service. He would be the last the support of the foolish sin'king fund had been utterly lost
man to propose that a servant should'be turned adrift without to the nation. The Right :Hon..- Gentleman appealed to the
reward, because his services were no longer required. It was consistency of the House, an appeal which would serve bins but
not by such paltry savings as. might be effected by such very little, when it was remembered that the same House hall
a proceeding that the country would be benefitted. On actually resolved that it could repeal no more taxes, while the.
the contrary, he thought that' it was for the advantage Right Hon: Gentleman himself was taking credit to himself for
of the country, that men who had spent a considerable por- having repealed several millions-of taxes. The' question there_
Lion of their lives in the public service, should be adequately fore must not-be decided upon the consistency of-hhe House,
provided for when the period of their retirement arrived. There but upon its own merits. The table was loaded with petitions
was no chance that the Chancellor of the Exchequer, if left to for the semission of these taxes, and there could 'be no doubt
himself, would remit the taxes which he (Mr. Maberly) pro- that the most beneficial effects would result from such a
posed to repeal. That. indeed, was pretty evident from what measure. A positive, practical,. and immediate benefit would
occurred shortly after the late repeal of a portion of the House proceed from such a etep, whereas the supposed benefits
and Window Duties. At that time the Commissioners of of the Sinking Fund were alleiti ' the distance. The return
Taxes sent letters to the Assessors in all parts of the country, of three millions into • the pockets of the 'people would
directing them to survey the houses.in the district, anti telling promote such an -accumulation- of capital in the' country as
them that if they used their utmost diligence, and increased would be the surest- Fund for the 'nedeetion of the Debt.
the amount of the returns, they would be favourably recorn. This was the very doctrine urged by;'a Noble Lord, who opened
mended to the Treasury. This proceeding created the utmost - the Budget last year, whose very wordahvere, that if this money
alarm throughout the country, and representations poured in were left in the pockets! of the people it would fructify and
upon Government on the subject from all quarters. The Chan- revivify to the benefit of the country. Why 'then should
eellortof the Exchequer, under those circumstances, wisely put a there be a change of doctrine now ? II e- was sure if his Ma-
stop to the proposed survey, which-he declared was only thought jesty's Ministers - would apply the , same sound principle to
of for the purpose of equalizing the duties. But if there was any finance as they had begun to apply .to commerce, they would
import in words, it was evident that the object of-the Cemmis_ certainly dispense with the Sinking Fuod. .It was not to
sioners of Taxes was to increase and not to equalize the duties. injure the credit of the, country that he asked this; on the coin-
, The assessed taxes mustbe considered as direct taxes. -But how .trar3%, lie considered the credit of the country would be assisted
would the House receive a proposition for the imposition of an by such a step. He hoped that every Hon. Member who had
Income or Property Tax, which was the only fair mode of direct presented petitions against this Fund, would support the
taxation ? The House would, lie believed, scarcely allow such a motion of his Hon. Friend. •
plan to be stated. The strono• feeling which prevailed against Mr.-Alderman HEYGATE said that he could not acquiesce
h .
assessed taxes was owing to tile inquisitorial system by which in the proposition that was then before the House, although he
they were collected. The whole of the machinery by which the must adnnt that the Assessed Taxes were more hateful to the
assessed taxes were collected was most oppressive. In 3-4ths country than any that could be proposed—(Hear, hear ! and
'of the case in which penalties were incurred on account of not Laughter)—yet lie felt convinced that the credit of the country
filling up the returns, people erred, not intentionally, but from required that the Sinking Fund should be supported, and he
ignorance with respect to what they ought to do. Poor people was therefore of opinion that these taxes could not be repealed
were frequently deterred from app,:aling against the decision of at the expenee of that Fund ; but if it were possible-that the
the collectors on account of the loss of time which generally Assessed Taxes could be reduced consistently 'with the preser-
attended such a proceeding. It might be said that carriages vation of Sinking Fund, then the motion should have his most
were articles of luxury, and therefore were proper objects of hearty concurrence.
i taxation. But looking-glasses were quite aS much articles of Mr. N. CALVERT opposed the motion, as he thought that
' "xedY as carriages, and et the former did. not pay an annual those taxes ought first to be reduced by which the price of
1 n'itY, -whilst the latter did.. 'flee Co::. Member then alluded labour might be enhanced. to Ireland, Which was relieved from the assessed • In 1,/ C pEI HAM said a few words, which were inaudible
taxes. , r. C. EL
HAM the taxation head, '
amounted to no more than 10s. per in the Gallery. • „
Whilst in En l ,
--A ant. it aer wined to '1 10. per bead. Nearly Mr, MA BERTA', in reply, observed, that if the statement of
the whole eXpence. of Ireland''.' ''
* s.
fell upon theepeople of Englami• the Right lion. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the EXchequer)
—This was to be attributed to th -w 'of emment which correct, there could be no hope or any reduction of taxation
prevailed in.that count,• I ie am
mode was
year 1 0,3 The for Sudbury '
e „ y. ic feared that if some of re- before the .l(, • Hon. Member Sudbury (Alder-
lieving the diste
h 1
dun .p.es of Irelend were not devised, she would man Ileygate) a, declared that he had spoken on the question
become a :mus enemy to England.- The unfortunate for the sake of his constituents ; and although he thought a reduc-
sintatlon of Ireland would induce her to rebel, and lace hers; f • •oftaxation most desirable he
p erse f non
, should
vote aga'
inst the present
under. the protection
of any Foreign Power that appeared to motion, on account of the Sinking Fund. Surely a more entraore
sympathize with her tuner:ilea to
e. lie Hon. Member concluded dinary doctrine was never put forth by an Alerman of the City
.by moving the following resolution : of London : and as to the- Hon. Gentleman's constituents, he
" That it. is expedient, that tican and .nfter the sth day of sincerely wished that they had been within hearing ofhia speech;
January, 1825; the duties now payable on houses and windows hut as that was not nossible,he hopedhlle Hon. Member would be

correctly reported, that these persons might at least have the
advantage of reading it. The Right Hon. Gentleman had
stated that he (Mr. Moberly) had forgotten that the Unfunded
Debt in 1 816 was fifty-two millions. But that statement was
unfounded, for it was then forty-nine millions for England and,
Ireland ; -and since 1819 there were thirteen millions of Un-
funded and nine millions of Funded Debt redeemed ; and the
papers that would be on the table in a few days would not only
confirm that but every other point he had stated. He intreated
the House to recollect that if they did not, by their vote that
night, compel Ministers to the adoption of the measure that he
proposed, there was no chance of a reduction of taxation taking
place hefOre the year 1823.
Lord MILTON rose amidst a general cry of " Question,"
and observed, that he should vote for the motion of the Hon.
Member, because he thought it the only mode of driving Mi-
nisters to a reduction of taxation. It might be said, that in
voting for the reduction of the Assessed Taxes, they were bene-
-kiting themselves, and neglecting the interests of the poor ; who
ought to have duties on soap and candles repealed, which were
articles of such necessary consumption for them. But, never-
theless, he thought the measure of the Hon. Member would go
a long way in driving Ministers to a reduction of taxation, and
therefore he should vote for the motion.
The House then divided, when there appeared--
For Mr. 3laberley's motion
Against it - - -
Majority against the motion
• COUNTY COURTS BILL.
On our readmission into the gallery, we found the House in
a Committee on the further consideration of the Report of the
County Court's Bill; and Mr. ScAn LETT was observing,
that he would not consent to give a number of places of 800/. a
year.to the patronage of.the Chancellor, which would be the
case' by the operation of the present Bill.
The clause which Mr. Scarlett objected to was, after a few
words from Lord Al.-I'IIORP, agreed to.
On the clause being read, for allowing Attornies to act as
Advocates,

WEST INDIA DOCKS.

DELIVERIES for the WEEK, and STOCK ON HAIM
for the 'Week ending the Bth of May, 1824.

Delivered.
-
1 Articles. Home Stock 00
Con-
Exports- Hand.
sumption. tion.
-----...
Sugar
lihds . - 2,657 - 14,683
{ Tierces - - 161 , 5 1,810
( Puncheons - 33 137 24,403
Ram J,
(lihds • - - 4 11 806
'Bids and Tierces 134 218 11,006
Mae /
Barrels and Bags 121 • 455 23,005
{Bales and Bags - ' - 273
Cotton
Pockets and Sarong - - 72
{Butts and Pipes 21 ,- - 1,544 -
Wine
lihds and 4 Casks 15 - 956
Casks - - - - 145
Pins en to
Bags - - 1 120 0,323
( Casks - - 7 . - 4.4
Clinger J.,
( Bags - - - - 11
{Casks - I 4 - i 611
Cocoa
Bags - . 36 - I,xll
Logwood Tons . - . 1321 20 3,3231
Fustic Tons - -15 i . - 1,2951

- - 171
-93

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved as an amendmesit,
that neither Barristers norAttornies should be allowed to uct as
Advocates in any of these Courts.
After a few words from the Solicitor-General, Lord Althorp,
Mr. Scarlett, and Mr. Peel, the amendment was agreed to.
Several clauses were then agreed to ; and upon that of com-
pensation being proposed,
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL proposed that the Chair-
man should report progress, and ask leave to sit again. .
. Mr. BROUGHAM cordially seconded the motion.
Mr. SCARLEW hoped that the officers of the County Pala-
tine of Lancaster would be altogether cxemnted from the °per-.
ation of the bill. El e intended to move an amendment to that effect;
The report was then ordered to be taken into consideration on
Monday next.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at HALF-PAST ONE o'CLocz.

Chests of Sugar

Cae.,:s of Molasses

a.a For LITERARY No'

1,t1951

ICE, see the Fourth Page.

LIST OF THE MINORITY
Who voted on Mr. Maberly's Motion for taking off the As-
sessed Taxes.
Althorp, Visct. Hornby, Ed. Rickford, W.
Anson, Hon. G. Howard, Lord H. Scarlett, J.
Barrett, S. M. James. W. Scott, J.
Becher, W. W. Jervoise, G. P. Sefton, Earl of
Bernal, Ralph Knight, R. • Smith, Hon. IL
Birch, J. Lambton, J. G. Stanley, Lord
Brougham, IL Ikyeester, IL Stewart, W. (Tyr.)
Bright, H. illaberly, W. L. Stuart, 'Lord J.
Bond, Marjoribanks, S. Sykes, D.
Calcraft, J. Maxwell, J. Shelley, Sir J.
Calvert, C. Milton, Viscount Talbot, R. W.
Carter, J. Monck J. B. Taylor, M. A.
Caulfield, Hon.. H. Moore, Peter Tynte, C. K.
Cavendish, C. Newport, Sir J. Townshend, Ld. C.
Chaloner, R. Osborne, Lord F. Warre, J. A.
Cradock, S. Palmer, C. Western, C. C.
Crespigny, Sir W. Palmer, C. F. Whitbread, S. C.
Denison, W. J. ' Pares, T. IVhitbread, W. H.
Denman, T. Poyntz, W. S. Williams, J.
Dundas, Hon. T. Pryse, F. Williams T. P.
Davenport, D. Portman, J. B. Williams, W.
Folkestone, Visct. Proby, Hon. G. L. Winnington, Sir T.
Grosvenor, Hon. R. Ramsay, Sir A. Wood, Ai.
Gordon, R. Robarts, G. J. 'Wrottesley, Sir J.
Heron, Sir R. Robinson, Sir Geo. TELLERS.
Honeywood, W. P. Rowley, Sir W. Hume, J.
Hobhouse, J. C. Russell, Ld W. Maberly, J.
14.-RELAMENTARN PROCEBIANGS.

PRICE OP STOCKS Tii IS DAY AT ONE O'CLOCIC•
Bank Stock lndia Stock ' - 299.
3 per Cent. iced......... 95jii Inclia Bonds 625•
3 per Cent. Cons. 96i 86 south Sea Stock • ---
3.i per Cent. ' 104 2;,• Old Annuities --•
(Old l,lO/ Ex. Bills ' 42 40 24
4 per Cent. Assented 101•14 Ditto :Small . „39, 43
New 108:a 874 Bank for Act. • • • .--
Bank Long Ann 24 India for Con. Acct..
Imp. 3 per Cents. • I Cons. for Acet. ONi

-
' "..........

PRICES OF FOREIGN FUNDS, AT ONE O'CLOCK.:
Austrian Bds, 5 per cent. 96i Prussian, 5 percent. --
Chilian, 6 per cent 826 Ditto New --
Colombian ltds.6per cent. Russian, New, 5 per eent 97
Scrip 24 Spanish 1821, 5 per cent. 20
Danish, 5 per cent. — _ 182, ditto --
Greek Scrip i dis. Alliance Shares lBt
Mexican Scrip si pm. Palladium
Neapolitan, 5 per cent. ... --Equitable Loan s4l
Peruvian Scrip lrish Ditto 1 1

Portuguese gonds
Scrip

HIGH WATER AT LONDO:
Morning, 16 minutes after 1.

Al anchester Ditto
French Scrip

'N BRIDGE TO.MORROIV.
I Evening, 43 minutes after, 1.

THE- SUN.

110 USE OF COMMONS.
Lunce, 10° die Mali, 1824.
Bram:mg—Lary—Bill read a second time, and committed.
Hammersmith—Petition of Proprietors of Putney Bridge,
against, to lie on the table.
Fitz IxsurtAlTc
U John's) Bills reported to be
VicsTrty—Southw.A9 LIGHT s—H ereford a
ark (St. d Edinburgh . m '
grossed.
lurnovz3LENTS—Canterbury—Bill reported, to be ingross-
ed. Walsall—Bill read a third time, and passed.
PANivo--„Ashford and Rudlow
CIIURc ii-Blackburn
, time, and passed. Bills read a third
Di vIDZNIYS TRANSFER (England and
Ireland)
eLASS AND SWEETS
ROADS—Haw Bridge, Birstall and Hohne Lane Head, Glas-
gow
mg-Tossed. Halifax and ,Huddersfield—Seven Petitions,
Against, referred to the Committee on the Bill; and One,
in favour, to lie on the table. Finchley—Petition of Sir T.
M. -Wilson, against, to lie on the table. Renfrewshire—
Petition of the Incorporation of the Merchant House of Glas-
low, against, referred to the Committee on the Bill. Shep-
ey and, Barnsley—Petitions of Inhabitants of Hohnfirth,
Barnsley, Shepley, &c. in favour, to lie on the table ; and of
Proprietors of Barnsley Canal, referred to the Committee on
the Bill.
Docxs—St. Katherine's and South London—Petition of Mer-
chants, &c. of Rye, in favour, to lie on the table; and of
Directors of Commercial Dock, against, referred to the Com-
mittee on the Bill.
CANA L—Glamorganshire—Petition of the Marquis of Bute and
Earl of Dumfries, against, to lie on the table.
CITY or Loirnox—Orphans' Fund, Thames Navigation,
and Coal Exchange Debts,-Bills read a first time.
NAVIGATION—Newry—BiII ordered to be brought in. Med-
way—Petition of Chairman of the Medway Company, against,
referred to the Committee on the Bill.
COMPANIES—British Annuity and British Gas—Bills read a
first time. West India—Bill read a second time, and com-
mitted.

:QUIN Q 111.4 DICF,RE FALSUM AUDI:AT.?

LONDON,
TUESDAY, MAY 11, 1824.

CITY, ON o'CLocx.

cELOLnoeit ooff
ttilfiee
EnxewollarQrruaEngit elmvielints of h
be
productive
C
ctillveA -
of
a saving of about 50,0001. per annum to the
country. It has hitherto been the practice to
permit the progressive accumulations of surplus
revenue, during each quarter, to be deposited iti
the. Bank of England, without any interest accru-
ing upon them ; and thus, if Government •bor-
rowed a sum of money from the Bank (and by.
Act of Parliament they are entitled to take Len
millions quarterly from the Bank in advance of
•the Quarter's Revenue),they were charged with
interest for the whole of the sum so borro;ied,,
although the Bank had actually funds, and thoSe
continually increasing funds, too, belonging to the
Government, in its coffers. The new arrangement.,
by which the loss arising from the old method
of keeping the account with the Bank is
in future to be obviated, is simply to keep in
account current between the Government add
the Bank of England, on precisely the same prin-
ciple as that of an account between the Bank and
a private mercantile establishment. At the. end
of each quarter, the interest accruing on the
actual. advances (if any), made by the Bank, of
sums of money exceedihg the amount of the public
funds in their hands, will be calculated, at the
end of each quarter, from the precise dates of
such advances respebtively, and the balance being
struck in the usual way, the saving I have men.
tioned aluive is expected to be the result.
One o'Clocic.--The article in the Etoile rela-
tive to the overtures made by the Comriiissioners
for the Brazils to the Portuguese Government,
at first excited some surprise : but on N,Clection

EAST INDIA CO3IPAWY—BiII ordered to be brought in.
DRAINAGE. Wainfleet (Lincoln)—Three Petitions, against,
referred to,the Committee on the Bill ; and One, to lie on
the table.

EQUITABLE LOAN SOClETY—Manchester and Salford—Bill
read a second time, and committed.
RAILWAYS—Tees and Weardale—Petition from Stockton-
upon-Tees, in favour, to lie on the table.
BarnEwELL—Lanarkshire—Petition of Henry Houldsworth,
against, referred to the Committee on the Bill.
INceosunEs—Meltham (York)—Petition of Owners of Es-
tates, against, referred to the Committee on the Bill.
MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS—That -they have agreed to
Exchequer Bills ( Public Works) Bill, Militia Pay Bill,
Ruin Duties Bill, Sugar Bounties Bill, and Monkland and
. Kirkintulloch Railway Bill, without amendment; and to
Liverpool Pilots Bill, with amendments.
AssESSED TAXES—Petitions from Leominster and Hants,
for the repeal-thereof; to lie on the table.
COUNTY COURTS BlLL—Committee to report progress, and
to sit again can Thursday.
LAW STAMPS REPEAL—BiII reported, to be.read a third time
on Thursday.
PASSAGE 'VESSELS REGULATION—BiII considered in Com-
mittee ; to be reported this day.
HIDES AND SKINS BlLL—Petitions from Butchers of Col-
chester and London, in favour, referred to the Committee on
the Bill. Five of the Committee to be the quorum; power to
send for persons, papers, and records.

NOTICES OF MOTION'S FOR THIS DAY.
1. Lord Viscount Althorp_Motion on the general state of Ire-
land.
2. Mr. Curteis—Bill to amend the Law of Settlement, so far
as relates to Seafaring Apprentices.
3. Mr. Henries—Bill to allow persons to compound for their
Assessed Taxes for the remainder of the periods of Om-
posi don.
4. Mr. Herries—Bill to amend Hull Dock Act, so far as re-
lates to certain lands belonging to his Majesty.
ORDERS OF_ THE DAY FOR THIS DAY.

%vas obvious that the Etoile refers to tiro nego.

ciations which are on the lapis between the Uabi-

nets of Lisbon and Rio d e Janeiro, under the me!.
diation of this country. It is certain, however, that
theseo negociations are in a bad state, and that
n
progress whatever has been made towards an
amicable arrangement. The Portuguese are de-

1. Bossiney Borough Election for Commit-

tee, at thiee. •
2. Chelsea and Greenwich Hospitals Bill—Second Reading.
3. Exchequer Court Fees Investment Bill—Second Reading.
4. Juries (Scotland) Bill—Further cgnsideration of Report.
5. Plymouth Victualling Office Bill—Report.
6. Passage Vessels Regulation Bill—Report.
7. County Courts Bill (Compensation to Town Clerk of Cam-
bridge)--Cominittee thereupon.
3. Leather, &c. Duties (Ireland)—Committee thereupon.
9. Parochial Stipends (Scotland) Act--Committee thereupon.
NOTICE GIVEN YESTERDAY.

_
Tuesday, May.lB.
Mr. Dawson—Bill to repeal 29 Geo. 2, c. 16, which obliges
the name of every partner of a Bank to be mentioned on
the Notes, and prohibits Bankers from Trading as Mer-
chants.

ermined to tr.alie an attempt with the expedi-

tion now fitting out, and it is quite certain that
the means for enabling it to effect an impression
are but too well prepared at the place of its

destination.

The ship Friends, from Rio de Janeiro on the
4th Marth, arrived at Guernsey on Friday last.
She has brought letters which confirm the original
accounts as to the augmentation of the French