The Sun.
London, England, 1840-05-27 00:00:00

EVENING EDITION.

CORN-LAWS.

MEETING OF DEPUTIES.

The Deputation met yesterday at one o'clock at Brown's
Hotel, New Palace Yard, when the following deputies
were present :—From Burnley, Mr. J. Barnes; Birming-
ham, Mr. Joseph Sturge ; Colne, Mr. T. Thornber ;
Cupar (Fife), Mr. W. Tullis ; Chorley, Mr. A. Turner;
Dundee, Mr. A. Kinloch ; Droilsden, Mr. M. Christie;
Dcwsburv, Mr. J. Alison; Dickinfield, Mr. S. Robinson ;
Derby, Sir. J. Johnston; Glasgow, Messrs. J. Tennant,
W. Weir, A. Johnston, D. Murray ; Huddersfield, Mr.
W. Brook ; Halifax, Mr. W. Morris ; Kendal,
Mr. I. Wilson; Kirkaldy, Mr. W. Tullis; Lambeth,
Mr. J. Richardson ; Leeds, Mr. H. Marshall, Mr. P.
Fairbairn ; Liverpool, Mr. L. Heyworth; London, Dr.
Bowring, Messrs. P. A. Taylor, and T. M. Gibson;
Maidstone, Mr. G. Beaver; Manchester, Messrs. J. B.
Smith and A. Prentice ; Nottingham, Mr. S. Beard;
Oldham, Mr. D. Meller ; Paisley, Messrs. D. Forrett
and J. Grieve ; Southwark, Messrs. J. Bowler, W. Wil-
son, and J. Gibb ; Stratford, Mr. E. Burford ; Tower
Hamlets, Mr. Coates; West Ham, Messrs. J. Sutton and
J. Palmer.
Mr_ J. B. Siam having been elected to the Chair,
read the minutes of the last general meeting of Deputies,
held in London, which minutes, on the motion of Mr.
Coates, were unanimously approved and confirmed.
Mr. P. A. TAYLOR read the report of the preliminary
meeting of Deputies held yesterday, and a letter received
from the Commissioners of Poor-laws, acknowledging the
communication which had been forwarded to them, pur-
suant to a resolution of the Deputation.
A desultory conversation then took place as to the
course which the Deputation should in the first place pursue,
and as to the re-appointment of the Executive Committee,
to prepare such resolutions as might be submitted to a
public meeting, to be immediately called in the event of
the failure of Mr. Villiers' motion this evening.
Mr. Were did not think it was necessary for the deputa-
tion to wait until the conclusion of the Debate, to know
what the result of the motion would be.—(Hoar, hear.)
It was necessary for them to take at once
such steps as would make it known to Members
of the House of Commons, their determination to oppose
the re-election ei every one who should fail to do his duty
upon the question.—t Hoar, hear.) It was necessary for
the advocates of repeal to have some advocate in Parlia-4
meat of suMeient influence and energy to do the causer
full justice, and he know no one so well fitted for that
office as Lord Brougham, notnithstanding all the foibles
of that Noble and Learned person. He did not think it
was necessary for the delegation to wait for the result of the
debate before they decided on their course. If they were
not pi.eparil to tike a bold, he might say a reckless
course, they might as well go home, and give up the ques-
tins of Corenaw repeal altogether.—( Hear, and a laugh.)
A Dert:Te suggested that it should be an instruction to
the Committee to take measures for calling a public meet-
ing in Paltee..yaid, in the event of the failure of Mr.
Villiers' ir, hone
Mr. Ce.tres sold that the first question to be determined
waslhe re.appointrner,t of the Executive Committee. He
accordingly ,1L)eed....." That a Committee be appointed to
prepare tire business to be submitted to the Deputies, and
in particular to submit for the consideration of the Depu-
tes I;tteit ecurse as nay be deemed best cult ulated to se-
cure the iuccess cf the League."
The motion was seconded by Mr. BowLER, and una-
nirntaeliagreed to, and :Messrs. Wilton, Coates, Brooke,
Taylor, Le2er. Jell: eon, Prentice, Hayworth, Weir, Wi!-
SOII U 44100, Gibson, a.ed Dr. Bowring, were appointed
the itlemher, of the Committee.
Wles.iti thought Ito could not very well serve
upon Vie Committee, as he count not confine himself to the
discussion to which they were restricted by their
rules; fir lie rens still of opinion that mere agitation
against the Core-laws would not be sufficient to
secure their repeA.
:rlr. TAYLOR agreed with the last speaker, that they
would never effect their object without the agitation of
other questions besides that of the Corn-laws. At the same
thee lie sh bold regret exceedingly that the present Corn-law
agitation should tie missed up with any agitation for another
object,_( Hear.) The members of the Deputation wore
not precluded from exerting themselves elsewhere for the
attainment of other objects, although they met there f,r the
repeal of the Corn• laws, without regarding the difference of
opinion on other 9ubj .eta from those with whom they
co-epos
° P C
rsted on this. Nothing could give their ensrnies more pleasure
than to sea the Association' change their name of Corn-
law Deputies inei that of PrOgri'S3:Ve Parliamentary
.kel'orm Deputies."__( Hear, hear, hear.) Ile agreed with
other gentlemen iu believiug that agitation for the repeal
was not sufficient; but when others saw the effects of the
agitation and the discontent ;..ted disgust of the people
rho had hr 20 Short s time sere in petitions
with two millions and a half of signatures, they would pro-
ce• d to a7;:itte ith equal energy the objects of which
t' roost desire the success But he was convinced that
the Deputies would never succeed in their efforts until the
-edorninance of the landed aristoerecy was broken down.
did net think that there was quite so
anuch reason for despairing of success by the agitation of
the Core-laws :ileac. If they would give him three De-
puties from the country, he would venture to hazard
r.n opiaion that they should have a meeting in
Lambeth, of sufficient importanen and determination to
produce some fleet —( Heer, hear)—and the example
would SODD be followed in every district of the metropolis.
—( Hear, hear. )
PRENTIer., in reply to the observations of the gen-
-*lemon who desired greater c.i;itatiott, thought it neees:iary
to remind the deputies that they were apeuintecl for this
purpose of Corn.ht.v repeal alone. They had come under
a solemn covenant with the people who had subscribed the
Looney for the purpose, as, for instance, the people of Man-
cheater, who had subscribed 6,000!, nut to lee applied to
Parliamentary Reform, but to the repeal of the Corn-laws.
("Hoar, hear.)
Mr. COA'rEs hoped that gentleman (Mr. Wilson) would
not persist in withdrawing his narziefrom the Committee upon
the ground which he stated.—(liter,) He (Mr. Coates)
'would not say that he differed from Mr. Wilson on the
'question of Referm, but he hoped that no such test of
political opinion would be introduced among them,
they might very usefully co-operate for the
-repeal or tee Corn-large, however much they might differ
upon political questions. At the same time, he must ad-
inaz tinac the failure of their efforts to obtain from Parlia-
Melri: that repeal. would give still stronger proofs of
the necessit.y for a further reform of Parliament.
Mr. NaiesoN said that after the explanations he had
hear 1 he would not hesitate in withdrawing his objection.
—( tpplause.)
Th eff,tiaMAN then said that at the suggestion of Mr.
Kiiilieeh be begged to remind the Committee of the im-
portenee of proceeding immediately to business, arid pre-
paring resolutions, and reconimending the course which
the Si !puthtion should pursue, as they could not know how
toxin the debate inlght terminate, and they should, there
fors, be pretiared to act on the mornent.—( Hear, hear.)
The next busmesv of the meeting was to re-appoint the
Finaneial Ceinimittoe, which was accordingly done.
Mr. MEt.e.ert said that he had a contribution of 50/. from
Oldham, th.pli...ce at the disposal of the Finance Committee.
Iu answ, to at question from Air. RICWARD2ON,
The CIIAIRSIALN said it would be well to have it und,r-
stood that every .D..-legate should give notice to the
Executive Con:mitt. 'w of any notice which he wished to
bring forward. lie set:d he had received from Mr. Mar-
shal! of Leeds, whose ►')rother was Faucet as a Delegate,
a letter which contain. tci some important suggestions re-
speeting their future co urs,., one of was worthy of
immediate attention. H e the., read the tolio wing extract :
" it is of vital haportan,u, L 0 our success in the debate that
the Council should hare, the othole of the statii, tic data, and
the economic rea:„.oning:a and conclusions dedue:lde there-
from, ready worked out in tile most compreheueiee and
accurate manner possiiiiise To do this well in so wide' a
subject in all its bearing aas the Corn-laws, is an arduotel
endertaking, and requires high qualifications both as to
the knowledge of facts and acquaintance with the princi-
ples of economic science . I would suggest that one of the
first steps of the Counci I should be to obtain the assistance,
it possible, of some such parties as Mr. Tooke, Mr. Hume
(late of the Board of Tat ado), Mr. Porter (of the Board of
Trade), Mr. Maceulloat , or Mr. Marshall (author of the
Statistic Tables), to giv et, in conjunction with a sub-cam-
mattee of their own body, their undivided attention
to this departinent. We ought to know hero-Fehand
every fallacy. that Sir fl °beet Peel will or can teter in the
debate, and for every one of them have a cannon pointed
and spotted with grape, ;ready to blow it to pieces. I mead
not allude to the value of E. Baines' (junior) services in
this v..ay, at our last mee Ling. One point certain to be
insisted on by our oppon ants, is what they will call the
great over-trading, espee daily in the seven years
preceding.
1839. An increase, ace ordie to Mr. Wilson
"FO to
lu.
Nations in Commerce an d Magnufacture.s"),Piolffn (2-6rom
460 millions of pounds, taken into consumption per an-
num. Now, if this view of the case taken by Mr.
Wilson is correct viz an uett:t it is siireetly traceable
ti?ns and derangements
to the vast periodic
in the direction in which capitala employed; and also in
the real quantity or am )untof roldsductive capital existing
in the country in thu period of P.ro
wue.tive harvests as com_
fluctuationscorn. laws, arcw o
pared with unproductive onek;,
greatly aggravated if not produced bleb
to the objec_
should be furnished with a conclusive' the
riePtel:uer favour. The
tion and a new argument of great power
more deeply and accurately we analyse the
more do the iniquitous Corn-laws assume the
cshuabriacterthe of
a master evil, lying at the very root of the
a
and poisoning all its fruits.—(ilear, hear, leial tree,
pconclude with remarking that these
m:0%,)
ensive ;views of the effects of the Corn-laws
enabl
us, in the clearest and most conclusive manner, to show
that the demand for this repeal rests on no narrow base
such as the profits of the. mill owner and merchant, as
stated by our opponents; but on the broad basis of the

. ..
common benofit of all classes of the community, and
most empatically of the working class, which is the mess
numerous of all."
Atter considerable (but desultory) discussion, it was
agreed that the suggestion should be left to the consi-
deration of the Metropolitan Association, and Mr. l'avlor
undertook iltat he would brin., it -un'der ihe consideration
of that branch of the Leacwue.'
~. 11 r• IZICIIAIS,DSON.said it' had been saftrfe tn 4 tht anv
...tots which could be obtained bearing ‘ll7on-3 t'll'e• rate 'o
-f
wages should be stated to the Delegates. There -was one
fact which had latei co
zhought of some i2portmanec to
h:3
kn"ledge'
wirich he
,A rn.nufacturer rrlctntly
tool; a contract for 41,000.cvarcs()f flannel—if woe well
Pa;
atthe
trade that. out of zhe five
_known to every person to th-t-
-contracts, three would not
priec at which it had
bec...n taken. It appeartd that
wtiii,e;rc'ce• ryas a!1 underitandiog
wutai;elenasunt.ttiheaynt,t,tadntiogthre,er,d that
:among the manutacturers by
one should not pay lessue
tit the return of the
the contract to his houtn, lie red: 7:d had
Lk ;15
of big ;Kid: men in. order to o,b,nt.(alinhenher,oltort:t7(l 0: a 't-',C
contract, li. that were the ealc,
th,: aalliraey of the information he had ro eel-wed, it ..°lubt 1
ho, rm.,,-. ~-t•-• stiff; rings of 01.3 labou:in,-: ciazses 1,,,5.Zw,c,,-
the
.7::13 t;: employment and the high priee6of
gravlted by
/0,4 .......(i, 4r. )
M . L. f-lfriwoftru thought the fact which had just been
ruL.at,oned m.,,,i Vtlry important in showing the baneful effect
'lt f..e r; orn -1a,,, ;., which appeared to him to lie at the root
cti the vvil.,— (11';,,.7, hear, hear.) FEr.nocl was i•crlaal.,

more extensively used than any other article among the la-
bouring classes, but when food was dear the poorer people
were unable to purchase it, and there was consequently a
diminution in the consumption. The manufacturers had
not the same amount of orders, because the consumption
had lessened, and there were therefore more manufacturing
labourers to produce flannel than there were persons to con-
sume it. The consequence was, that persons were driven
to employ the workmen at lower wages rather than not
employ them at all. Now, it appeared to him, that it was
of importance that these facts should be communicated to
the public.--( Hear, hear.) It had been well observed
that the great means after all by which
they would be able ultimately to accomplish
their object was to return members for Parliament
favourable to their views, but they must endeavour to bring
that to bear upon the next election. They could only do
that by personal exertions and by money.—( Hear, hear.)
He would suggest that the system of gratuitous lectures
should be more extensively carried out. He believed the
system had been adopted in Bolton, Blackburn, Leeds,
and other places, and he himself had tried the scheme last
week, having given lectures at Lancaster and Preston.—
( Hear, hear.) Ho had had on these occasions most at-
tentive auditors, and he understood his statements had
made a very considerable impression on those present. He
had told them the only way to effect their objects was to
return Members to Parliament who would pledge them-
selves to vote for the repeal of these iniquitous laws. Now,
if that system was generally adopted among the operatives,
he thought it would ensure to them a host of advocates
among that class of the community.
Mr. PRENTICE had been recently in Scotland, and he
was much delighted to learn that the system of voluntary
lectures had been carried out to some extent, in the
spirited borough of which Kinloch of Kinloch was the re-
! presentative.—(Hear.) Two intelligent young fellows
had gone fromvillago to village, who had conversed with
the people, and lectured to very large assemblages ;
in that way they were diffusing correct information to
every hamlet and village within ten or fifteen miles of Dun-
dee. He (Mr. Prentice) was about to proceed to Cheater
on a mission of the same sort, when he had received the
summons to attend the meeting of Delegates in London,
but a young man, not quite 21 years old, had volunteered
to go in his stead, and he had no doubt the people would
be interested and instructed by his lecture.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. Bailantine, of the Bolton Free Press, had also adopted
the system, and he had last night given a gratuitous lecture
at Ratcliff.bridge. He believed the plan would be found
exceedingly advantageous if, in addition to the lecturers
who were already employed, gentlemen would exert them-
selves in the same way, because half a dozen could not pos-
sibly give sufficient information to the public on the ques-
tion. He had on a former occasion shown that it would
not require more than 125 gentlemen to embrace the whole
of Great Britain, and none of these need travel more than
ten miles from their own homes. The question could not
he properly understood until like Mr. Heyworth they went
out and instructed their neighbours. During the time
he (Mr. Prentice) had been out he had never had a word
of incivility addressed to him, and he had come in contact
with Chartists, Tories, Whigs, agricultural labourers, and
farmers. In fact he had always had most attentive audi-
ences, for the people had come to the conclusion that the
Cdrn-law was in no way a political question.
Mr. HEYWOItTII would suggest that the circulation of
pamphlets would be also an excellent means of diffusing in-
formation among the people, and instanced one which had
been written by the Rev. Mr. Spencer, entitled " The
Prayer-Book against the Corn-laws," of which he (M .
Heyworth) had circulated a large number.
Mr. Lass, of Saddleworth, said it was most important
that the public should have correct information with respect
to the present state of trade in the manufacturing districts.
It was of the more importance because it bad been lately
represented in the public prints that trade was improving*
generally throughout the country. So far as his k low-
sedge went, it had not improved. Ile begged to state that
be knew pretty well what was the position of Grantham
when the worsted trade was extensively carried on ; and
so far from it having improved since they last met, it had
grown worse. There were many large houses in that
town in the worsted trade which for the last two or three
years had been going on at a certain loss, and they had
seated that they would not do so much longer. if the
trade did not very soon improve they would retire with the
Little they had made. He could confirm that statement
frorn a fact which had lately come to his knowledge ; a
large Government contract for the navy, for blatikets and
dreggets, had been a short time since taken be a maeufhe-
turer from Dewsbury, but at a price which could Let pay
him unless be reduced the wages of his workmen. in order to
make it pay he did reduce the wages of hes workmen, so
that the instance mentioned by Mr. Richardson was not a
solitary one.--( Hear.) That was an important point, in-
asmuch as it showed that the evils of the Corn-laws even-
tually fell upon the working classes. It %vas universally
admitted that the price of labour depended upon the dc-
mand, and its results were now seen it the reduction of
wages which followed the decrease in the consumption of
manufactured articles. He thought these facts ought to
come to the knowledge of their legislators, and he would
be glad if they made any impression on them.
Mr. SYDNEY SmITII said the present state of trade was
one of the most important subjcts they could discuss—
whether, in fact, it was better or worse, since they last met,
so that the Legis!a'ure, if it was shown that under the
present system the trade of the country was deelieing,
might be induced to come to a decision different from that
which it had come to when the question of the Corn-lass
was last before it. Su far from its being then at Zero, it
appeared from oil the statements they had heard, that after
the lapse of two months it was much worse. There were a
few exceptions, for instance Huddersfield, but in Halifax,
Leeds, Manchester, Bradford, and ail the manufacturing
towns in that district it was much worse. As for Hudders-
field, it would appear that the person who reported the
state of trade in that town had a tendency to look at the
bright side of things.—( Hear.) A manufacturer of Shef-
field had lately told him that the London hat trade wes in a
deplorable state, and he added that strong able bodied
workmen of Sheffield were actually breaking stones on the
public high-roads at Sd. per day, and some who were
unable to do that were employed in sweeping the streets
at 4d. a-clay.—( Hear, hear.) These facts ought to be
known to the Delegates and the public; and with
respect to the statement of Mr. Richardson, what
did it prove ? Wi:y, that the argument that wages were
kept up by the high price of food was fallacious, inasmuch
as, although bread was now rising in price wages were
tumbling down.
Mr. JOLLY had been last week through Yorkshire, and
had made very minute inquiries as to tile state
of trade. He did not go five miles in any direc-
tion without making inquiry, and the result was, trade
was very much worse. The universal cry and the
universal complaint was, that the manufacturers were
attempting to reduce the wages of their workmen. 'flat
was occasioned by the slackness of the demand, and if
they did not do that they could not employ their men at
all. The last time he was in that room, Mr. Livesey had
stated that the average earning of the hand-loom weavers
was 6s. a week. Now he (Mr. Jolly) most unequivc-
cally asserted that the average wages did not exceed 3,:1,
a week.
A DELEriATE inquired where ?
Mr. JOLLY—In Blackburn, Chorley, and other places
in Yorkshire, the names of which we did not catch. lie
knew several instances of persons working sixteen
hours a-day, who could not care 6s. a-week. There were
many men working full time that were earning only 3s. or
1;. At the Select Vestry one man stated his earnings to
be 9i. 9d. a-week, and, by the way, they were
opposing him (Mr. Jolly) on the Select Vestry, be-
cause he was an Anti-Corn-law man, and they
were that very day polling against him.—(Laughter.)
The man's statement was so astounding, that he (Mr.
Jolly) went to his employer (Mr. Friar) and looked at his
books, end he must say that he never knew so large a
quantity of work to be done by one person ; but his master
eeplained it by saying that he worked day and night. It
appeared that the total amount of his earnings was
ss. Id. a week, but they had been reduced latterly
i.d.,—( Hear, hear,)—and deducting the outgoings
ea r his work, viz , Is. 3d. a week for fire, as he required
an iron constantly heated to dress his work, and Is. 3d.
a t seek for the room for his loom—it left his net earnings
1 6s, 114 d. ; and there was one of the best workmen in
Ch orlcy working for one of the best masters 16 hours a
date . Mr. Jolly then gave the case of a man named Scott
who I: had seven children, of the respective ages of 16, 14, ,
10, 8,6, 3,1; he earned himself ss. 3d. a week,
and the eldest child as much. The child 14 years old
earn, xi 4s. and the wife Is., making a total of 15s. 6d.
Out t hi ' that he had to pay 71. a year rent, besides keeping
I fire 1:-'4 hroughout the day, which must cost at least Is. 3d.
(.; c is. s 'd. per week. It was quite impossible that a family
of nine persons could be supported upon the remainder._
(I-f ser, hear.) To show the difference between the pay of
tile s%ote king classes in Lancashire during a time of peace,
1 whe n tl lore were no Corn-laws, and the present, he would
stet( ! the, tin 1803 the wages paid
beingfor
5
a certain
ss. to 6
descriptionosthe
of w oak :was 335. the piece, corn
quay tee, Cld
every thing else in the same proportion. The
,
Wag., 'a fo.- tnat description of work now was from 3s. 6d. to
33. 1 od., ~'s. being the utmost paid by any manufacturer.
Fern terly the foreign merchant would take goods out of
the vm-ehoustr and pay
for them at once, whereas he had 1
now i to en waitieg for one remittance three years, and, in
manu-
facture ria ,er businesstoo ta ttebvreere cmo uolndt
hbso. done, unless the mane-
d the pi eceding speeker. In Forfarahire, where a great
Mr. i 7.iNeocit, of Kinloch, corroborated the statements
kbillS:Vtla‘
quantity . of canvass used to be woven, wages had been re-
duced fro tn "is. 6d. to 6s. within the last four weeks, and
a numbs rof hands were idle. Where there were
two wet vers in one family the manufacturer gave
a web 1 .o one one week, and the other another
wee7e, sot ,s to share the little there was to do as equally
poseible. The Corn.laws forced the manufacturers to take
contessete ; 4 t a very low figure, or to stop their works alto-
getlitirs— e. Hear, hear.) In Forfarshire an immense
capita C,'.haul.l een vested in machinery, and if the works were
once I• 1 on, 0. it was well known they could not be easily set
in molt on of ,ee n ; therefore hands were employed merely
to keel I th
,got ks going, which could not be done with-
out gre ,at lo .ss to . the manufacturer, and he was consequently
obliged. So redeems the wages of his workmen.—( Hear,
hear.) T ney =tee'. upon the principle that the people
were hette r off v,'',th h ill a leaf titan none at all.--( Hear.)
Befe rc 1
P—, "...
Lue-,
foot:. ,
e 1 district coming to him every
be lent heats be was annoyed by the
sem employment in agriculture at -
were willing to woik even for th"eniyr
more thanwhereecioLldciffieoardr, to do,
iic gad enap.oya , .. . a
manylanded proprietors
.:rtelLY -
wwaeo-ckte !LI i'elinst2ltilhi:, tj(fi
they
~t,
x, „e Ane• d. ho had employed weavers in agri-
ee hoe %e
in tilt • ricigl'eur !could net get employment in their
_l,:tio 0 ~, t, he dvisttirlaetsset srtea.:,
use tiloy
et
Mil
C ' I'''C"
I,' hear. ) `lto make matters worm, it
o Nii se, d•e.---(l:cirLy a new Freeell tariff to put an hddi-
ad been ProP—
the only InantZacture that
As
paaing in
iouel date' rayon the only
• erns and linens. A great deal
faith that the duties
,
For:arshire, W..ineq, •
on thC
v li. re, but the Lew tariff had ems
wee aid continue is thee -:e .s of renteneration. The
.dl rospea, r , 7 „,
p 1( tely annihilated , p . ,
1 to toe eaornda en at
be ttrientet
of ieloney had peen investe)d
wl .ole of this was to a
it was unfair to b
1V ages, when .e lama the n e
to
do
I. was obliged eitker
, maufacturer for reducing
,er,r.) that or to stop
Ihi ;works altop-,ether.—(Hear,L. .
.11 ortant that state.
Mr. TAyLca thoeght it highly 1, p