The Sun.
London, England, 1847-12-08 00:00:00

FREIGHTS.

Mr. BROTHERTON moved for a return of the
freights paid by the Goverument on 4opations of food
from America, for the relief:of the'ponrof Ireland and
Scotland, in the course of..the present:year; distin-
guishing-1, the poits of obipmentg. 2, the',ports of
delivery ;3, the navies .oftheships ; :the individual
co nmittee to whom each parcel of food was consigned;
5, an account of the freight on each parcel.--(The
return to comprehend the deliveries at both British
and Irish ports.)
MINISTERS' MONEY.

Mr. E. B. ROCHE presented a petition from two
parishes in Calk praying for the abolition of minis-
ters' money.
IRELAND.—REPEAL OF THE UNION.
Sir GEORGE GREY rose to make an applica-
tion to the Hon. Member for Nottingham (Mr.
Feargus O'Connor), with respect to the follow-
ing motion, which stood first on the paper of
this evening :—" For a Select Committee, to in-
quire and report on the means by which the dissolu-
tion of the Parliament of Ireland was effected ; on the
eff-ets of that measure upon Ireland and upon the
labourers in husbandry and operatives in manufac-
tures in England; and on the probable consequences
of continuing the Legislative Union between both
ent and eLordLieutenant agreed in opinion tnat as e4r y a aecfsion as
was consistent with the importance of the sub-
ject, and with fair discussion, should be come
to with respect to the Bill which the Government
had proposed with the view of repressing crime in
Ireland ; and as the progress of that measure might
be retarded by the motion of the Hon. Gentlemen,
he wished to point out to him the: expediency of
withdrawing his motion in order that the debate
might proceed at once.—(Hear, hear.) - The Hon.
Gentlemen would have ample opportunities of bring-
ing it forward in a later, though early, period of the
present session It was most important, with a view
to the protection of life and property, that no delay
should take place in pa-sing the measure into a law.
Mr. F. O'CONNOR said the Right Hon. Baronet
had placed him in a most unfair and disagreeable
position by the request which he had made. He knew
the popularity of the Government measure and
the unpopularity of his proposition, and wished
therefore, to get it postponed. Now he (Mr. F.
O'Connor) considered that his motion should precede
the passing of the Bill, and consequently, in his opi-
nion, he should not lay himself opeo, by persisting in
his motion as it stood, to a charge of bringing it
forward for the mere purpose of originating a fac-
tious opposition to the Bill. He repelled the charge,
and said he could not comply with the request of
the Right Honourable Baronet. [The Honour-
able Gentleman having resumed his seat for
a moment, immediately rose again, on being
called upon by the Speaker, and proceeded, after apo
logising for the hoarseness of his voice from a severe
cold, to bring forward his motion.] He said he
could not shrink from bringing forward his pro-
position, notwithstanding the ungracious position in
which he was placed. He wished to state to the
House that he had adopted the very words of the ,
motion brought forward by Mr. O'Connell in 1834,
and which he had himself supported in the preceding
year. He thought when they were considering the
question of coercion, that they should be informed of
the condition of Ireland antecedent to the Union,
and during the last 47 years. He should, however,
carry on the discussion in a different strain to that
in which it was carried on in 1834 ; he
should not dwell on the differences between the Saxon

and the Celt, because he for one hcd no wish to cast dis-
respect, upon the " Saxon gentlemen ;" he recol-
lected further that 3,500,000 of the people of Eng-
land had petitioned in favour of the repeal
of the Union. He put it on higher grounds, and
would ask, if Ireland had become part of the English
empire by conquest, what statute of limitations there
was to prevent her from re-conquering herself ?
Was it not remarkable that Ireland, though
stated to be bound by ties with England, should have
retrograded as England and the other nations of the
world progressed ? He should trace the title of
the Crown of Ireland from its first institution
until the time it merged into the English
Crown, from the time of Edgar, in 964, when the
charter was signed at Gloucester, until 1542, during
the reign of Henry VIII., showing that (luring
that time both nations were Catholic, and that
the differences between the two countries had
arisen chiefly out of religious differences. He
should then go on to the commencement of the
French Revolution, thence to 1800, the period of the
Union, and then down to the present time. Every
single revolution in Ireland was brought about by Eng
lish Protestants against the Irish people ; there r ever
was what could be termed a Catholic revolution.
If he was enabled to prove these things from history,
in such a manner as to clefy contradiction, he should
then have made out a strong case for relieving the
Catholic people of Ireland from the odium cast upon
them, that they had been always the disaffected
parties. With respect to the character of Edgar,
which was the first ground of title set up by the
English to Ireland they were told by Leland, who
was to be considered as by no means an unfavour-
able historian for the English people, that " that
charter was susceptible of considerable doubts."
The next title set up arose in the period when
Stronghow went over to Ireland, and succeeded
in conquering a great part of the province of Lein-
ster. Henry King of England was induced by the
successes of Strongbow to take the title of King
of Ireland. The title which King Henry took
with him was a bull of Pepe Adrian the Fourth,
an Englishman, who granted him the govern-
ment on condition that he should spread the Catholic
faith, and that he should make the Catholic people
attend more to the rites and duties of the Church ;
he then bestowed the throne upon him, on condition
that he was to receive in return Peter-pence, or the
payment of a penny from each house. In the year
1172, all the Barons and Nobles tendered their
submission ,to Henry. Shortly after he was obliged
to leave his Irish dominions. When King John was
twelve years of age he was sent over to Waterford to
receive the submission of all the barons and nobles
within his dominions. So imperious was the conduct
of this young king, that the day after he left
the nobles who had made their submission imme•
diately took up arms against him. During the
seventh, eighth, awl ninth centuries Ireland
was prolific in commissioning missionaries to pro-
pagate the Catholic faith over the whole of
Europe. Until the ruthless days of Cromwell
and the days of the rebel King William, whom
they sent over to Ireland, not a single conquest
hnd been made, and it could be proved that even every
foot of ground which the English gained in the wars
theywere obliged to surrender as soon as they were com-
pelled to withdraw their forces. The next title set up
was in the time of Richard 11., in the year 1695,
who went over to Ireland with 4,000 men at arms
and 30,000 footmen, and received the submission of
all the nobles and barons of the country. In 1699
Richard again invaded Ireland, and they were told
that he remained revelling in Dublin for many months,
till at length news reaclied that the Duke of Lan-
caster had landed in England, and he was compelled
at once to return to his native country, without ac
complishing anything in Ireland. The next claim
to the sovereignty of Ireland was made in the reign
of Henry VIII., who went over to that country with a
large force, but like his predecessors achieved nothing.
Therefore, none of the revolutions that had
taken place could be put down to the religion
of one country or the other, and from that
period up to the Union Ireland had been
the subject of aggression from England. 13efote
he sat down he would show that Ireland had never
had an effective Parliament to govern her, and such
being the case he would ask whether it would not
have been better, instead of abrogating the Par-
liament altogether, as was done at the time
of the Union, something had been done to
render it more effective ? The Honourable and
Learned Member then went on to endeavour
to show, that from the earliest time down to the
present eevery attempt had been made by the
English Government to impoverish the people
of Ireland, and corrupt her Parliament, and observed
that the Irish people, finding that they were deceived
by their leaders--finding that they were being made
the dupes of their public men—determined to esta-
blish the Irish Society, of whose existence the
Government was aware from its very birth, and whose
members they knew, but still they did not cause
them to be arrested. They preferred rather to fer-
ment the rebellion, in order that they might be
revenged upon those who had refused to assist them
at the time of the revolt of the British American
colonies. At this time the Irish Catholic people began
to look for aid to the French Catholic people, and it
was natural that they should do so ; but the French
revolution intervened, and their hopes of succour in that
quarter were frustrated. Again, the Government
wanted the assistance of the Irish people, and in order to
gain that assistance they had recourse to the cry of
Parliamentary Reform. A hollow cry it was. It
was the cry of Earl Grey, it was the cry of Charles
James Fox, but only to assist them into place, and
when they safely got there away went Parliamentary
Reform, then the cry was understood to mean merely
that a Government commissioner could not be allowed
to have a seat in that House.—(Hear, and laughter.)
The people of Ireland, therefore, instead of getting a
fair representation in Parliament, had the celebrated
Convention Act given to them, and from that period
up the union history could not point to anything
equal in atrocity to that. Now what was the
history of the rebellion of 1798 ?—who could relate
it ? Ireland had given this country orators,
financiers, statesmen, warriors, dramatists, and poets,
but England had taken care that she should not pro-
duce historians. Who had fought the battles of this
country ? Irish generals and Irish soldiGrs ; and
yet, so far back as the memory of man could go, this
country had refused Ireland her just Pld legitimate
rights. Eventually the Irish Parliawen'. was annihi-
lated; and what, let him ask, was the consequence of the
annihilation ? From Piieo up to 1800 the exports and
imports had increased to an enormous extent, and the
country was in a comparatively flourishing condition.
In 1780 Ireland did not owe a fraction, but in 1800
she was in debt to this country 14,000,0001. He
would. not dwell -upon the means by which the
Union was brought „about, although he. hat/.
ample authorities to e enable him to do to.
Suffice it - Sgar-t
_thet,zit -Was cosumrnated by
,the
vilest corruption; that the- terms were; dictate& iiy;
England while Ireland• was in a defencelees state;
with her energies shackled by; debt, fainitee',
and disease ; and from that time to the. present
the terms of the union had been continually
violated by the British Parliament. - The in-
crease of the national debt from 1801 until 1810,
was caused by England,in order to keep France
away, by our fleets, from Ireland, for it was
supposed that that country wished to obtain posses.
sion of it. Arid how had they accomplished the utter
degradation of Ireland ? They gave every man a
peerage or 15,0001. who obtained the election of
persons in Ireland favourable to the views of England,
and those who had peerages and accomplished the
work received the 15,0001. Lord Castlereagh gave
Et, t 7 th..uffh the population was
5,000,000 at the time, whilst England with but
9,000,000 obtained 503. Was this, he asked, a fair re-
presentation of the country ? The result had been that
a hostile aristocracy had been created, who, hav-
ing no sympathy with the country, cared
not to see her prosper. The oppression of the
Catholics had also added to the misery of the
country. They gave absentee landlords the power
of evicting their tenants when their arrears were
more than two shillings. After creating such an
aristocracy as he had described—after twenty-three
years of coercion—after resisting emancipation for
forty years, were they astonished that Ireland pre-
sented the deplorable spectacle she did ? It was im-
possible now to -shackle the Irish mind. An- Act
was passed which exempted grass land, from the
payment of tithes, so that the Protestant land-
lord—the great , opponent of the Catholic
Church, and he.' might say of their own L---
who had 4,000 acres of grass land, paid no
tithes, whilst the Catholic widow, who had gathered
manure from the road to grow a'. few pots=
toes on her acre of land, paid them. --
(Hear, hear.) These, he contended; were damnatory
facts against the legislation which had been
adopted towards Ireland by England both before
and since the union. lie was tried in Ireland,

in 1832, for resisting the payment of
tithes.—(Laughter.) He denied, however, that he
was " artful, designing demagogue." If were,
he had nothing to gain by it. It was his beast, and
he was proud to proclaim it, that he had
never received a farthing or eaten a meal for the
services which he had rendered to his country. He
had conducted more contested elections than many
men, but he never expected or to-)k any pay,
though as a barrister he was entitled to large fees.
He would now come to the question of emigration,
and if there was ever a disgrace to any set of men,_ it
was to seduce people, able to obtain a living in their
own country to leave it, in search of labour and the
means of existence. The curse of this country had been
that in the exact proportion in which liberty increased
so had corruption increased, b2cause the Government
knew they were able to buy off the noisy demagogues
of the country. He would now deal with the free
trade question as it would affect the question of

repeal. He had the greatest- respect for the
lefsler of tbst party (Mi-!-- Cobden).
(M.. O'Connor) was oppusen to bon mall
he once met him, when he saw so much
beneficence in his face, that he was determined from
that time to oppose him no more. Labour was the
source of wealth, and ought to be protected, and it
was all moonshine to talk about Exchequer-bills,
Bank Charter Acts, the financial condition of the
country, or an) measure to make money cheap,
while the foundation of all was neglected.—(Hear.)
He would now come to the question of a separate
Parliament for the two countries. 'When the Irish
Members came to that House now, it must he ad-
mitted by all that they had no power. Then
with respect to the lands in Ireland, he asserted
that from that year 1793 to the present moment
they had been cultivated according to the science
o. politics, and not the science of agriculture.
In that house the Members were operated
upon by the voices of their constituents outside,
Lut such was not the case in Ireland. If Ireland were
properly represented in that House there would be
no necessity for the Government coming
down for a Coercion Bill one year and
a loan of ' money another. Another subject
of great complaint in Ireland was, and most jaSslllY
so, that the whole staff in Ireland down to the present
time had been almost without exception Protestants.
There was one circumstance which had widened the
breach between Englishmen and Irishmen, and that Nves
the exchange of militias. The people of Ireland, irtanY
of them at least, had bean rifled of their lands and
estates, and it was not to be wondered at that .the
descendants of those unfortunate people should still
cling to a hope that the property which they
had been wrongfully deprived of shouN
_be k-
stored to them. Had Napoleon instead 'of Wel-
lington won at Waterloo, many of England's
estates might have been confiscated, and he asked
the House whether, had such been the case, the pen:
pie of this country would have remained satisfied till
they had recovered what they had lost ?
it was just in this way that the people of Ire-
land had been deprived of their rights and land',
and he called upon the House to look at the
present state of the continent of Europe, at the pre-
sent state of America, and then to tell him whether
it was safe to disregard the cries of Ireland for $
redress of grievances ? Well, then, let him have
this Committee, let them see at once whether
Irish agriculture could not be resbred to
a state of prosperity, so as to be en-
abled to supply England with food without
her having recourse to foreign granaries. He had
been called an infidel—he had been denounced
as a revolutionist ; but in his own conscience
he felt that no man was doing more to
sow the seeds of peace and good-will amongst
all classes of society than himself. His every hog
was directeil to that subject, and in order that he
might not be misrepresented in future he would tell
the House and the country, that he was for
the altar, the throne, and the cottage, but he wished
the altar to be the footstool of God and not the couch
of Mammon ; the throne based upon the affections;
of the people, and not on the lusts of the aristocracy,
and he wished the cottage to be the castle of the
freeman, and not the den of the slave. The Hon.
Gentleman concluded by moving for a Select' Com-
mittee in the terms already stated.
Mr. FAG-AN seconded the motion.
Mr G. GREY was sorry that the Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. O'Connor) had felt he had a right to complain
of the appeal which he (Sir G. Grey) had made to
him in the beginning of the evening to postpone his
motion, for the appeal which he had made had refer-
ence simply to the public interest, and to the advance-
ment of business which was felt to be of public im-
portance. He did not know what the feelings might
be of the Hon. Gentlemen who came from the sister
country, to whom the Hon. Member for Nottingham
appealed, to show their gratitude for the opportunity
which he hail given them of redeeming their pledge;
but he could not help thinking that the Hon. Member
himself must now he convinced that he would have
exercised a wise discretion if he had abstained from
pressing this motion..—(Hear.) It appeared to him
that the conclusion of the Hon. Member's speech was
the most discreet part of it, for if he had not distinctly
read the terms of the motion with which he was about
to terminate his address to the House, there were
very few Members in it, he would venture to 5099
who could have conjectured what the motion of the
Hon. Member would be.—(Hear.) The Hon. Member
began with the reign of Edgar, and went through
the history of Ireland from that period with great
rapidity. The Hon. Gentleman had certainly im-
proved the leisure which:he had enjoyed since he last
made his appearance in that House, and had acquired
a large stock of antiquarian lore and historical infor-
mation, with which the Ilouse had been favoured. If
he possessed them before, the Hon. Gentleman had
not previously displayed to Parliament his stores of
knowledge. He was reminded, however, that he was
mistaken in this respect. He believed the House was
favoured by th. Hon. Gentiennin with information)
a similar kind on a former occasion, and that the au•
tobiographical notice with an ample portion of which
the House had been indulged that evening had, on
the occasion in question, been commenced from an
earlier period, demonstrating the Honourable Mem-
ber's descent from the ancient Kings of Ireland.—(A
laugh.) But lie really asked the lion. Gentleman whether
he intended that the Committee for which he had
moved should take up that wide and discursive range
of subjects which the Hon. Member's own speech had
occupied ? At what period of the history of Ireland
were their inquiries to commence ? The Hon. Mem-
ber had touched, with a very light and rapid hane,
upon the various evils which had afflicted Ireland,
but he had utterly failed in demonstrating that a
repeal of the union would care those evils, or that
those evils which had fallen upon Ireland antecedent
to the union could be fairly ascribed to it. Wp.,
he recollected the manner in which this question had_.e
been discussed on a former occasion, and the able
writings which had issued from the press of late ye
he was not prepared to say that the question was onewhich Parliament should entertain. If the Honour-
able Gentleman thought that the subject of the re-
peal of the union was of such great and :
ing importance, why did he not honestly ?rend.
manfully take the opinion of the House on tn
question, and why not move that the House resolve
ss
b elf into a Committee of the:whole House to discuss
it ?—(hear, hear.) He really thought that this r',oll
a much fairer mode of dealing with the subject t.blies
moving for a Select Committee to make iliqui!
which would occupy, not merely the present 5e5512
but all the sessions during which the present Parlia-
ment could last. ("No, no," from Mr. O'C""r.)
If the Committee did not go back to a more remote
.
period, they must at least go back to circumstance'
which occurred nearly half a century ago. 'lle asked
.the Hon. Gentleman whether these events were not
`yell known ; whether they were not matter of history.
(w ,
;and whether any necessary information on the subject
as wanted ? The Hon. Gentleman seemed to thing!,
ithet patronage had entered largely into the history 0'
Itho. union, He seemed to think that since the moon,
also,'. the patronage of the Government hrd been
properly bestowed, because some Irishmen, who wet!'
subjects of the United Kingdom, received as much their
fair share of public employments. Did the Hon:
'Member believe that if the Irish Parliament
were established to-morrow there would be
an ab3ence of all patronage exercised b 9
the Government ; or that Members of Per"
liament would be so patriotic as to refuse patron:
age when offered to them; or that constituents would
instantly cease to prefer those requests which were
commonly made by constituents to Members of Par-
liament, and even occasionally by the constituents of
Irish Members ?—(Laughter.) He would ask the
Hon. Member wnat evil would, in his opinion, be re-
medied by a repeal of the union ? He (Sir G. Grey)
did not now deal with the question whether any. evils
had been really occa-ioned by the Act of Union or
not ; he was only dealing with the speech of the Hon.
Gentleman. The Hon. Gentleman had said that the
Irish labourers interfered with the rate of wages re"
ceived by the English labourer ; but did he mean to
accompany his motion for a repeal of the union by a
measure prohibiting the importation of Irish labourers
into England, or did he mean to say that an Irish
Parliament would pass laws which would prohibit
their emigration from their own country? There
was, no doubt, some pressure upon the industry
of this country from competition with Irish
labourers ; but those labourers benfited them-
gelvei 'by coming here, and were a most
valuable class of men—(Bear, hear)-rind he thought
that, instead of aiming at complete severance, we
should 'endeavour, by fair legislation, and the dis!
peesatio'n of equal justice, to consolidate and bind
together the two countries. He regretted the tone
which the Hon. Member had adopted in regard to
religious differences. He was sure that the spirit o
successive Governments had been of late years to
avoid the sectarian bigotry which marked the Admi-
nistrations of former times.—(Cheers.) The Hon.
Gentleman had endeavoured to make this a question
between Protestant and Catholic, but he (Sir G.
Grey) hoped that these differences between Pro-
testant and Catholic were losing much of their bitter-
ness. lie thought that the Committee could lead to
no beneficial result, and might induce the delusive
notion that the House was prepared to entertain the
question of the propriety of repealing the union. He
really hoped, therefore, that this motion might be
disposed of without that long debate which the Hon.
Gentleman seemed to anticipate.
Mr. O'CONNOR, in explanation, said, that he was
quits ready to propose a distinct motion for the repeal
of the union, and expressed a hope that the Right
Hon. Gentleman would second it.—(Laughter.)
Mr. H. GRATTAN said that the Hon. Member
for Nottingham had thought proper to say that tie
(Mr. Grattan) knew nothing of history.. In return
he might be allowed to say that the Hon. Member
himself knew nothing of it. When the lion. Member

laid that Mr. Grattan was a rebel, he said what was
ast the fact.
Mr. O'CONNOR made some observation, the pur-
Port of which did not reach the gallery.
Mr. H. GRATTAN contended that the Hon.
Member for Nottingham had called Mr. Grattan a
rebel, and that statement was false.—(" Order.")
The statement in the paper read by the Hon. Member
„Was a falsehood. He knew Mr. Grattan better than
the Hon. Member could know him ; and Mr. Grattan
Lever was an United Irishman. The Honourable
Member had done more ; he had not only
sliholled Mr. Grattan, but he had libelled
"ccd Charlemont ; and he (Mr. H. Grattan)
Would not sit in any assembly where Lord Charle-
mont was libelled without answering his traducer.—
{Hear, hear.) Lord Charlemont did not sell the
volunteers, neither did the volunteers sell their coun-
try. The Hon. Member had also libelled Mr. Pon-
sonby. It was not the fact that Mr. Ponsonby was
In the list to which the Hon. Member had referred.
,Neither Mr. Ponsonby nor Mr. Grattan ever be-
longed to the Society of United Irishmen, though
they did belong to the volunteers. [Mr. O'Connor
Made some gesture of assent.] The Hon. Member
admitted that he was right; then why had he not
the civility and courtesy to ask him beforehand
Whether it was correct that Mr. Grattan and Mr.
Ponsonby were United Irishmen ? He did not wish
to quarrel with the Honourable Gentleman, but he
Would fight him upon this ground to the last drop
of his blood.—(Cheers.) He objected to this setting
of party against party—this exciting of jealousy—
reviving of things that were obsolete, and this
constant reference, in the time of affliction and distress,
when they ought to co-operate together, to old griev-
ances. He appealed to the good heart of the Hon.
Gentleman, for although he wished that House to
believe it was as black as it could be, it was not so
black as he would make them believe it was.—(A
laugh.) The Hon. Gentleman on a memorable occa-
sion in the county of Meath stood by him like a man
of courage when he had a bayonet at his breast and
a sabre over his head ; and he (Mr. Grattan) would
stand by the Hon. Gentleman when he acted rightly,
as firmly as he would oppose him when he was acting
Wrongly. He did not say that this was a claptrap
Motion, but it might tend to frustrate the object the
Hon. Gentleman had in view. If the Hon. Gentle-
mans proposed a motion for the consideration of the
'ct of Union, he (Mr. Grattan) would support him ;
but not when he came under a mask, libelling Lord
Charlemont, the volunteers, Mr. Grattan, and Mr.
Ponsonby, and then thought he could sit down there
Unanswered. He charged the Hon. Gentleman with
four libels, and in calling upon that House, as the
to convict him, he pronounced the Honourable
Gentleman " guilty, upon his honour."—(Cheers.)
Mr. J. O'CONNELL said, the Hon. Gentleman
who brought forward the motion had thought it neces-
sary to make some species of apology to Irish Mem-
bers sitting on that (the Ministerial) side of the
house, but he assured the Hon. Member that there
Members felt no jealousy at the Hon. Member's
/shaving brought forward this subject. The Right
44,011. Baronet who followed the Right Honourable
Gentlemen had asked what could be the utility of
considering the subject now, but he (Mr. J.
O'Connell) thought there should not be an entire
Oblivion cast over the scenes of the year 1800, but
that the reprobation of mankind should be attracted
to the enormities committed by the Government of
that day in order to carry the measure of the
J legis-
ltive nylon. Forty-seven years had passed since
eland was deprived of her right of making
taws for herself, and what had been the
Consequence ? That she had been reduced
a State beyond which there was none deeper,
except that of utter annihilation or total ruin. What
was her condition before the union ? Lord Clare,
Who was one Of the artificers of that Act, andiwho was
1711.1 e of the deadliest enemies to the independence of
is native country, declared in the Irish House of
Lords that in the history of the world no nation was
,e.ver before known to make in so small a space of
',4oe the same progress in arts, commerce, manufac-
cur
es, and all that could upraise the condition of a
nation, as Ireland, during the short period of eighteen
Tears that she enjoyed the entire freedom of her own
Parliament. Mr. Pitt and Mr. Huskisson had also
said that up to 1780 the policy of England had always
'ten to cripple Ireland, and deprive her of her natural
resources ; and Lord Castlereagh, one of the chief
artificers of his country's ruin, in 1803 declared that
Ireland had during the same eighteen years he
bad referred to made a progress that had asto-
liiihed the world. The consequences of the union
° England had been not less disastrous than to
Ireland. England might prosper in her own mate-
risl wealth, but so long as, by her neglect, she left
Ireland to decline in her condition she would never
discover any advantages from the trick by which
the Parliament of the sister country had been anni-
hilated. Every victory which had been won under
the English flag was tarnished by her cruelty to Ire-
land, and whenever the Englishman was heard to
boast of his constitution and his country, the reproach
Of the foreigner, in pointing across the. Channel, would
always be ready. The Hon. Gentleman, in continu-
ation, entered into a calculation to show that an an-
nual external drain of 6,000,0001. upon the re-
sources of Ireland, which was a consequence of her
connexion with England, made it a matter of utter
impossibility that the sister country could ever sus-
tain the burdens at present imposed upon her, or pro-
gress in the same ratio as either of the other British
hear.) Recently her misfortunes
had been aggravated by a visitation of Pro.
vidence in the complete destruction of the potato
crop. This deficit in her ordinary capital amounted
at least to 16,000,0001., and as the potato might be
slaid to have represented the currency of Ire-
d) the evil so occasioned had been enormous. A
abort time ago the labourer had been paid with the
Potato ; by the potato the farmer paid his rent ; by
11. cans of the potato the farmer obtained clothing for
nofamily ; by the potato large classes were fed ; and
W the substitute was money. This being the case,
the prevailing distress in Ireland was easily to be ac-
colanted for; and it would be well if the House now con-
sidered if some cheap currency might not be substituted
44 a substitute fur the deficiency created by the loss
,Mahe Potato. With regard to the money part of
question, he thought he was bound to make out
11e1"5 in order to justify the words he had used the
previous evening. The terms of the Act of Union
had
expressly stipulated that Ireland should not be
-objected to bear any of the burdens of the debts
1):,, England contracted before 1800—the
of the two nations being at the time very
Fdisproportionate, and the principle was recognised
On all hands that the annexed ought not to be
saddled with any of the debts of the annexing country.
• ile funded and 'unfunded debts of England were
then. 420,000,000/ , and those of Ireland about
'OOO,OOO/. Ireland, it was agreed, should contri
Bute two-seventeenths to the impeiial expenditure,
and even Lord Castlereagh admitted that this propor-
tion was too large. The stipulation was to be main-
fined so long as there was an absence of certain con-
tingencies ; and, in the event of either of these, the
erasure
of the national debt or the improvement of
the circumstances of Ireland, until there was complete
equality in wealth between England and Ireland, taxa-
tion was to be made equal, and the imperial encumbran-
ces were to be borne in the same proportion. Neither of
these contingencies had arisen ; on the contrary, the
debt of Ireland, by legislative mismanagement and in-
jitstice, had increased out of all proportion. In
1800 it was 24,000,0001. and in 1817 it was
120,000,0001. ; the increase altogether being 59 per
cent, for England, and about 300 per cent. for Ire-
land ; and yet it was dec:ared that a casui had been
Made out for a consolidation of the Exchequers, and
that the time had come when taxation ought to be
Made equal. The consolidation of the Exchequers
had been accomplished in direct violation of the terms
of the Act of Union, and all the subsequent financial
Measures founded upon that consolidation were, in
consequence, as completely illegal as they were grossly
tnjust. Ireland, it might be, had failed to contri-
, 11te equally, but no good reason could be shown
Why she should have done so. England had failed to
Maintain, by separate taxation, the separate liabili-
ties
imposed on her by the Act of Union, and the
I.result of the policy of Parliament had been to make
_,,
41'd bikultrupt, thus crippling one country while
they crushed the other. The lion. and Learned Mem-
ber Continued to treat the financial part of the question
s—,
coasiderable length, citing various authorities to
snow the injustice that had been inflicted lreland
a'ttile consolidation of the Exchequers, and contending,
that whatever happened to increase the expenditure of
England operated in absorbing every available shilling
I,4r°m Ireland. He calculated that since the Union
A
than
had passed Ireland had paid 60,000,000/. more
-;en her proper share, and on that ground alone he
e'airned for her the consideration of this country in a
Period,ss of distress, not as a grant of charity, but an
iustice. As to separate taxation, England only
rid 10,500,000/., while her proper share, according
4° the interpretation of the Act of Union, was
15'0°0,0001., and in that estimate he reckoned the
income-tax, which was only laid on four or five years
aeon; so that the fact was, deducting the income-tax,
England only paid about 5,000,0001. of separate taxa-
". It had been asserted that Ireland had had
"mpensation for all this, in an indirect way, since the
being free from certain imposts, as the as-
sassed taxes; but he contended that there was no
force in that argument, as Great Britain had relieved
herself in far greater proportion from those taxes than
she had relieved Ireland. In the aggregate, Great
Britain had relieved herself from 47,000,0001. while
relieving Ireland from only 2,000,000/. of the same!,
taxation, All this time Ireland paid the expenses of
her Civil defratay ed and military establishments, for, although!
th out of the Consolidated Fund, it came out of
part of the fend which was produced by Irish
lrnc.Y. The remittances from the British Ex-
e%Mr to Ireland Dizac• 11w union up to January 1,