The Sun.
London, England, 1840-02-21 00:00:00

cessity, or merely to gratify the speculations
and fancies of experimentalists with the old esta-
blished sources of their national prosperity. The
Noble Viscount concluded by moving for copies of any
Reports from the officers of the Revenue Boards to the
Treasury and the Board of Trade, relating to the ex-
tension of the principle of Bonding Warehouses in
Inland Towns.

The Earl of CLARENDON having been for some
years conected with the department to which the Noble
Viscount referred, felt himself called upon to say a few
words. He doubted not that the Noble Viscount would
admit that the practice, if once established, must lead to
great inconvenience, not to the Government for the
time being, because the present could not be considered
in any point of view a party question. The resolutions
passed to the Treasury, and addressed to the Board of
Trade, must always he of the same character. Their
communications could not vary, and as in most instances
the reports of the Boards of Customs and Revenue were
replies to references made to them from the Treasury or
Board of Trade, and were answers to opinions asked
of them, it would follow that by the publication
of such reports there would be published also
the opinions of the Treasury and Board of Trade.
The information on which the decision of the Govern-
ment was founded must be ofttimes controversial, and
almost always confidential, and it was not at all binding
on the Government to adhere to reports they received
from the Revenue Board, or assign a reason for
not doing so. The Revenue Board informed
the Government as to the law and practice,
and it was the duty of the Government to decide as it
thought best for the public good, which it ofttimes
from being cognizant of things of which the Revenue
Board were not, and for which decision they alone were
responsible. The Board of Trade was considered as re.
presentieg the great commercial interests of the country.
The Board of Customs that of the Revenue only. The
Board of Trade was anxious to give every facility to corn-
merca and relieve it from all embarrassment, and was
bound to state its views in the strongest terms : both
were equally zealous for the public service. It could
answer no useful end to have parties informed in what
manner particular departments of Government advo-
cated their wishes or interests, to be told why the Board
of Trade thought a particular law necessary to be
passed, and why the Board of Customs thought the
contrary. Take the example of the Noble Lord's
Motion. The Board of Trade was considered all along
to be favourable to it ; the Board of Customs, on the
other hand, was supposed, to be unfavoureble.—
(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") The latter having great
general information had suggested to the Government
various ways by which, under such a law, the Govern-
ment might be defrauded, so that to publ sh this would
be to give a lecture on the most effectual mode of
smuggling, by those most qualified to teach it. And he
thought their Lordships would not think the papers
for which the Noble Lord moved, if they were
laid on the table, would serve any purpose
of his, because they would not criminate the
Government at all. The Government, in bringing in
the Inland Warehousing Bill, conceived it to be their
duty, with reference to the interests that were brought
before them, and the assistance which they had a right
to receive at their hands, to call upon Parlia-
ment to pass that law, but he thought they
were not bound to disclose those confidential com-
munications on which that measure was framed.
Many other reasons would occur to the mind of any
one conversant with business why these papers should
not be granted. Many cases might arise involving the
reputation of individuals, not only their character, but
their solveecy and their liabilities. If, this practice
were once established, eases might be sent to the Treasury
involving the character of individuals, for the purpose
.ef having those cases sent down to the subordinate boards
for the purpose of being reported on by those bodies,
and then baring the papers moved for by their Lord-
ships, and thus their Lordships would actually be
guilty of the publication of libels which might lead
disagreeable results.—(A laugh.) He could not con-
ceive that there were any more grounds for granting
these papers than for producing the opinions of the law
officers of the Crown, and he believed that they ad
agreed as to the expediency of keeping them secret.
There could be no more reason for culling for the
communications than for coiling on the Secretary of
State to produce the confidential communications
between himself and his Under Secretary. If the
practice should be once established it would totally
alter the character of the communications between
the superior and the subordinate boards. No such
communications would take place but such as both
parties were prepared to publish. Consultations
and references would take place as before ; in
fact, public business could not be carried on without
them ; ' but they would take place either verbally
or by means of private letters, which each Chancellor
of the Exchequer would carry away with him when
he left office, and then legislation would take place
without any record being left of the grounds of it,
and his successor would be left without any guide as
to the policy which had been pursued. • In
those o bjections which he had taken the li-
berty of stating, he had not applied himself so much
to the graunds on which he opposed the production
of the particular pepers in question, as to the general
grounds of all such productions being prejudicial to the
public service, and as he was convinced that the Noble
Lord could have no such intention, he hoped he would
not press his motion.
Lord ASHBURTON said that he did not see any-
thing in the production of the papers which would
be likely to affect the characters of individuals or
which could be attended with injurious consequences,
From the general alarm which prevailed on the subject
out of doors, he should wish to have the necessary in-
formation with regard to it, and he wished to receive
that information from the only source which could
afford it. If there were any just objections to
the motion of his Noble Friend, be was sure his
Noble Friend would be ready to alter it.—(Hear,
hear.) He could not, however, conceive it pos-
sible that the Board of Customs and the Board of
Excise, while reporting their opinions on such a subject,
could have had any inducement to communicate any
matter which could affect the character of individuals,
and he did not see how anything of a confidential
nature could have transpired in such an intercourse.
The Noble Lord concluded, we believe, by saying that
he should recommend that the motion be cot pressed.
But to establish a principle that revenue officers were not
bound to produce information of a simple and practical
nature, on which they had proposed a legislative mea-
sure, would be highly dangerous, [The Noble Lord,
however, was throughout so inaudible, that we could
with difficulty collect even this.]
Viscount MELBOURNE said he might observe
that this paper was asked for in relation to a Bill
not yet before their Lordships, and which might
possibly never be before them.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
But he wool I not rely at all upon that point.
Reference had been made to a previous debate, in which
his disclosures on finance had been characterized as can-
did and 'courageous. Now, undoubtedly he con.
sidered that neither in fanancial nor in any other
matters did it avail to court concealment, and
avoid a full statement of difficulties. But his
language had been somewhat misrepresented. He.
had certainly said that there had been a great in-
crease of expenditure of late years, owing to the
increase of the public exigencies, and the nume-
rous, schemes now-a-days suggested for public good.
But he never said that there was any difficulty on the
part of the country in meeting the increased expenditure.
On the contrary, he declared that there was no symptom
of any decrease in the power of the country to sustain its
expenses—no sign of haling off in its productive power.
He anxiously hoped the Noble Lord would not perse-
vere in this motion, for the reason stated by his Noble
Friend, that those co nmunic ttious between the Trea-
sury and the Board of Trade, and the Revenue
Boards are confidential, and are carried on adversely,
exposing the means of the fraud in the revenue, and
containing reflections on classes of individuals. He con.
sidered that the return would be prejudicial to the pub-
lic service. Unless such communications were kept
secret and confidential, the Government of the
country could not be carried on as hitherto. If they
were to be made public it was essential that a new
mode of cerrying on business between departments
must be adopted. Now-a-lays everything was pub-
lished in the uewspapers.—(Loud laughter.) If
you only wrote a letter it was published ,in
the Newspapers.—( Hear, and a laugh.) That put
manall
would
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more than
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anwas absolutelylaugh—a) necessary—(Cries
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sure to be overhauled in Parliament and in the public
press.—(A laugh.) lie thought it would be very un-
aavitable that the question involved in those re-
turns should be discussed in a Committee of the
whole House, but he certainly thought such a discus-
sion, however inconvenient, would be far preferable to
the reference of those returns to a Select Committee.
He must not to he understood to pledge himself to ac-
cede to a motion for a Committee of the whole House.
Allhooerrad saAimdswouaNrrE
sßßtuhat: e would be more ready to accede
to such a motion than to the present.
Lord
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