The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-05 00:00:00

MORNING EDITION

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF LORDS, Mu- 4.
The Loan CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool-
sack at Five o'Clock.
Lord HATHERTON presented several petitions
from Lincoln, praying for an alteration in the Turn-
pike Roads Acts ; also a petition from Scotland against
the Small Debts (Scotland) Bill.
Lord SONDES presented a petition from Stafford,
praying for a rel*al of the Uorn-lass.
The Marquis of bOWNSHIRE presented a pe-
tition from body of persons professing the Jewish
persuasion in favour of the Jewish Declaration Bill ;
also 25 petitions from places in the north of Ireland
against the law of Church Patronage in Scotland. He
not concur in the prayer of these petitions, and he
was satisfied the longer the law was permitted to remain
as it was the more mischief and inconvenience there
would arise. The Noble Marquis then presented a
petition in favour of the existing Corn laws from se-
veral parishes in Down, and other places in the north
of Ireland. Unless the existing protection was eons
tinued to the landed proprietors, neither could the la-
bourer receive regular wages, nor could the landed
gentry of the country maintain their station in life.
Eorl FITZWILLIAM presented n petition from a
plug: in Yorkshire, complaining 'di the operation of the
New Poor.ltw Act. The petitioners considered the
workhouse regulations extremely oppressive.—(Hear,
hear.) He could only say that he thought they were
mistaken in the character of the law. Also
a petition from a body of Socialists, complaining
of having been misrepresented in that House, and pray-
ing inquiry into their doctrines. He really did not
know why they had selected him to present their petition.
Viscount DUNCANNON presented a petition
from Derby in favour of the Drainage Bill.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE gave notice,
that on Monday next he would move for a Select
Committee to inquire into the rate of interest paid upon
Promissory Notes and Bills of Exchange.
DRAINAGE BILL.
The Marquis of NORMANBY mosed that the
Drainage Bill be read a third time.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said he wished the
University of 0306111. should be excluded from the Bill,
on the ground tl'.at it would interfere with local Acts.
jThe Marquis of NORMAN BY said he had no ob-
ection ta exclude Oxford from its operation.
Lord LYNDHURST inquired if there would be
any objection to exclude Cambridge also.
Thu Marquis of NORMANBY said there had
been no allegation that any local Acts would be affected
in the case of Cambridge.
The Earl of HADDINGTON could see no reason
for hurrying on these Blls. The session was not, he
supposed, near a close.—(Hear, hear.) It could make
no chfference if the third reading were postponed to
Friday or Monday.
The Earl of RIPON said he would propose to
except Birmingham.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH did not think that
places having local Acts ought to be ex-
empted from the operation of the Bill. He implored
their Lordships not to allow any trifling considerations
to weigh with them, but to pass the measure. without
any deviation from its main principles, and principal
provisions, whereby they would confer a great boon
on large masses of the people, and particularly the
working classes.—(Hear, hear.)
The Bill was then read a third time, when the House
proceeded to consider the amendments, of which notice
had been given for this stage.
Tie Earl of HADDINGTON proposed as an
amendment to the 47th clause of the Bill to strike out
the words " Sheriff or Sheriffs," for the purpose of in.
setting the words " Committees or Commissioners of
Supply." The object of the Noble Earl's amendment was to
give the powers conferred by the Bill, as far as Scot-
land was concerned, to the Sheriffs-Substitute and
Commissioners of Supply for the various counties.
Viscount MELVILLE objected to the Noble Earl's
proposition.
The Errl of HADDINGTON replied.
The Marquis of NORMANBY said that from all
the information he had been able to obtain, he had
reason to believe that it would be advisable to leave the
machinery of the Bill in the hands of the Sheriffs.
The clause was then negatived without a division.
The Earl of HADDINGTON begged leave to
move to add to the schedule—the Commissioners of
"An Act for better improving, watering, lighting, and
paving the town of Birmingham, in the county of War-
wick."

The Marquis of NORMANBY said his Noble
Friend had omitted to mention an imnortant distinction
between the Commissioners of the town of Birmingham
and the Commissioners of other towns, inserted in the
schedule ; and also the distinction between them and
the Commissioners of the town of Oxford. All these
Commissioners were elected in the same manner by the
rate-payers, but the Commissioners of Birmingham were
self-elected. He thought it this power was cot given
to those who were subject to popular control, it should
I • given to those for whom the Executive was respon-
sible. He did not think a Town Council popularly
elected was a proper body to entrust with these func-
tions.

The Earl of WARWICK said these Commis-
sioners were universally looked up to and respected
at B:rrningham, and in all the political excitement that
bad taken place at B:riningham had done their duty.
The Marquis of NORMANBY said this Bill
would not transfer this power from the Town Council,
but merely give the Crown a power of selection.
The Earl of RIPON said his object was to
prevent confusion in the town of Birmingham, since all
who read the Act would find these Commissioners were
able to do many things which must bring them into
conflict with those whom the Crown might appoint.
In answer to a question from Lord ASHBURTON,
The Earl of RIPON said he apprehended the
amendment would not preclude any other persons from
sitting as Commissioners ; but, if it did, it would not
make any difference.
After a few words from Lord ELLENBOROUGH,
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and their
Lordships divided, when there appeared—
Content
36
Not content
Majority for the c1au5e............ 69.
—33 The Duke of WELLINGTON then proposed an
amendment excluding the University of Oxford from
the operation of the Act.
The amendment was agreed to, and the Bill was
then read a third time and passed.
BOROUGHS IMPROVEMENT BILL.
On the motion of the Marquis of NORMANBY,
that this Bill be read a third bine,
The Duke of WELLINGTON moved a proviso
for excluding the University of Oxford from the opera-
tion of the Bill.
The Marquis of NORMANBY bad no objection
to the amendment.
Lord LYNDHURST said he had on a former day
presented several petitions from inhabitants of the bo-
rough of Birmingham, praying that the town might be
excluded from the operation of the Bill, and, as he rose
to move a proviso to that effect, he would state shortly
the grounds of his motion. There had been for thirty
years a local Act applicable to the town of Birming-
haul, and the Commissioners under the Local
.Act had powers similar to those given to the
Town Council under the present Bill. They had ex-
ercised those powers to the entire satisfaction of the
people of Birmingham. He would appeat to any Noble
Lord resident in the neighbourhood, whether a great
improvement had not taken place in Birmingham since
their appointment, than in any other town in the king-
dom? There was a power of appeal to the Quaver
Sessions against their orders, and in no one instance had
any appeal been made during the time they had exer-
cised their authority. He looked upon this as decisive
evidence of the admirable manner in which t hey had
exercised the powers with which they were entrusted,
end of the entire satisfaction of the people of arming-
tam with the manner in which t hose powers had been
administered. The Commissioners had been elected
without reference to party or politics. There were
persons of all denominations of party among them, and,
notwithstanding no complaint existed against them, they
all performed their duty conscientiously ; whereas the
Town Council of Birmingham, which it was proposed
to substitute in their stead, was the most partizan body,
the most radical body, in the empire. That Council was
'imposed of persons of but one description of politics, and
those politics of the most extravagant kind. As an
instance of that, he would mention one circumstance.
The person who filled the office of registrar of the Bu-
rough Courts should be a lawyer, but he was
a man who was not bred to the law, and the editor
or manager of a Radical journal of that town. Thom
were the first fruits of the town council. Whether
would their Lordseips entrust an unlimited power of
taxation to the Commissioners who bad hitherto dis-
charged their duty so well, or to that council of party
men who performed their duty in the way he (Lord
Lyndhurst) Mentioned ? He would never consent to
give such powers to a body so ;:onstituted. By those
powers they might purchase any property they
chose,
and give what price they plfltsed for it, and that with-
out any appeal being allowed kto be made against their
iondurt. Would their Lordships countenance such a
system of favouritism as that ? There was no clause
io the Bill to abolish the jurisdiction of the Commis-
sioners, and it was ridiculous to establish another juris-
diction—a rival jurisdiction, for the same purposes.
He would propose, therefore, by way of proviso, t}_-d,
nothing in the Act should :extend to the Borr,ugh of
Birmingham.
The Marquis of NORMANBY opposed the clause.
p
Ile saw no reason why Birmingham in
be excluded from a system which wasarticular should devised for the
benefit of large towns in general.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE justified the man-
ner in which Birmingham had been divided into wards.
In every case he preferred a responsible to an irrespon.
Bible body.
. la reply to he
Earl of ELLENBOROUGH,
Lord LYNDHURST said that he should be ready
to invest the existing Cbmrrissioners with all the powers
itivn to the TM] Council by the preseut Act,
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