The Sun.
London, England, 1840-05-28 00:00:00

E stnc, LoNDOII4. 11411TIRSMAY, MAY Q 1,141,),.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS; MAY 27

The SPEAKER took the Criair at Four &Clock.
The Clerkenwell Impiovements till was read a second
time.
The Duffryn I.lynvi Railway Bill was read a 0141 time,
as was also the 1"-yr Waterworks Bill.
Mr. EASTHOPE presented a petition from Leinater
against the Hull and S,lby Railway Bill.
Mr. FLEETWOOD brought up the Report of the
Committee on the Cheshire Coroner's 13th, N hen a clause
proposed to be inserted for giving the Coroners of that
county certain pow( rs for compelling the attendance of
jurors and witnesses waa rejected, after a short discussion,
in waich Mr. Wakley, Mr. O'Conuell, and Mr. Pluniptre,
took part.
The Report of the Committee on the Port Talbot
Harbour Bill was brought u,), and the all woe ordered to
be engrossed.
The Lords' Amendments to the Glasgow, Paisley, Ayr,
and Klimarneek Ratlaay Bill, were agreed to, and the
Bill was pissed, after the presentation of a petition from
Leith against certain clauses in the Bill, by Mr. flawie.
Colonel G. LANGT4N presented a petition from a
eongregation of Unitarians at Bath against any greet fiir
Ex'ension. _ _

Mr. LANGDALE presented petitions from Ro-
x.an Catholic congregations in tne v:c.i:ity of 13i4ekburni.
to the same effect.

IMPRISONMENT OF MR. VINCENT.

Mr. Sergeant TALFOURD presented a petition from
the Radical Club, with many respctable signatures,
on the subject of the imprisminent of Mr. Hear)
Vincent in the P. nitentiary. The petitioners stater)
Amt. Mr. Vineen, was convicted of a political offence al
the Monmouth Assizes ; that lie had b• en recommonden
to mercy, and that after having been imrrisoned in Mon-
mouth gaol, be hid been removed from that g;10i to ttit.
Penitentiary, when he was st.v.jected to the severest rep-
iations, and where be was not allowed to address a kite:
to his fr ends more than orr.:e in every four mouths. Th,
petitioners prayed the Howe to take the suhject into then
serious consideration, and to adopt such steps us might
lead to the temoval of Mr. Vincent from the Penitent;ar..
As he (Mr. Sergeant Talfourd) hitt:tided, to cal: the at-
tention of the House to th matter, and to mac a motion
relative to it—( Hear, hear)--he would move that th:_
petition should be printed .sith the votrs
IMPRISONMENT OF MR. F. O'CONNOR.

1171;:-T. S. .DUNCOMBE presented a elution from a
large meeting held in Bridworth. in Yoritsiere, in which
the petition( rs stated that Mr. F. O'Connor had been sen
tenced to e!gliteen moaths' imprisonment iu York Gael, un
a charge of publ!shin a seditious libel. Toe petieon, rs
stet, d that Mr. O'Connor was subjected there t the same
treatment as burg lers, fel .ns, and repteed murder,,. The
sliced that he is obliged io he on an iron bed, witeout any
sheets to cover bleu, or a pillow to repose on. That he i.
obliged to un ierg., many in, offiecs, such a, cleansing
his owl' hat he is not allowed to receive any
actors, and that while suffering severely from rheumatism
he had nut even the luxury of a wooden seat, but was obi ig,e
to sit on a cold stone. The petitioners bell, v,.d that thi-
harsh treat meta would tend to destroy his life, and tht-y
also stated as their belief that this was aleiost the first in-
stance of a person couv,eted of a poliVeal libel beng so se-
verely dealt with. They stated that when Sir F. Burdett was
imprisoned for a like off,ace, he was allowed to supply his
own food and bed, nd to receive the visits of his friends ;
and that Mr. Leigh Hunt, Mr. Cobhett, and Mr. Mont-
gomery the poet, r.ad the same inculgencea which tile)
were allowed to receive on the debtor side of the prisons
The petitioners prayed that the House might institut.e an
inquiry into the subject—( Hear, hear, from Mr. O'Con-
nell)—and that Mr. F. O'Connor might be removed Irani
the ft lons' to the debtors' side of the risen. If any of
her Majesty's Ministeis were present, I should certainly
ask them it this treatment were fair, or allowed by law.
Si: E. KN ATC td BULL suggested that tue Hon.
Member should take the earliest opportuaity of putting the
question he had referred to. The case was eerteitity
must harsh cne. —( Hear, hear.)
Mr. O'CONNE L Ba d that it was a gross violatien of
the law to treat Mr. O'Connor in that way.—(
bear.) Imprisonment did not imply torture, and really it
would appear that this gentlt man had been subjected to
the greatest torture. He thought the Hun. M.enber
ought to take some further step.
Sir E. KNATCH B ULL hoped as soon a 3 the matter
was stated to the Government that they would interfere
and prevent the necessity of Parliamentary inquiry.
Mr. Sergeant TALFOURD had seen the Matquis of
Normaeby on the subject that day, and be unclefirood
that some steps would be taken, but he believed that
nothing short of removing Mr. O'Connor from the prison
would effect the object.
Mr. D UNCO2.f BE said, as coon as any ocher Majesty's
Government were in their places, he would put a question
to them on thesubj,ct.

O'CONNELL moved that the petition be printed.
Mr. DUNCOMBE hoped it would nut be nt.de6sary
to do so. _

The petition was then laid on the !able.
Sir J. DUKE presented three petitions from Boston
against Church-rates.
'4r. DI VET r presented a petition from the grocers of
Exeter, curoplamiog of the hign rate of duty imputed upon
free labour giuwn sugar. Mau a putatiun against Church
Extension.
Culonal RU SH B ROOK presented petitions from SUS.
sex in f.tvour of Church Extension, and ag,inst soy giant
to the College of Maynouth. •
Mr; O'CONNELL preseaied 28 petitions from various
parts of Ireland against the Registration Bill, and also a
petition praying a free pardon fur Frost, Jones, and Wil-
liams.
Colonel SAL WE Y presented a petition from the gro
sets of Ludlow, praying that all free-'abour sugar might
be. admitted fur home consumption at a just and rea•ionahle
duty. The petitioners stated that !he alum tl consumption
was four millions of ewts., and that the consumers pay a
tax little short of four million pounds to uphold the mono-
poly of the Colon;.1 growers. Also a petition from the
inhabitants of Egham, praying for the abolition of Cnurch-
rates, and the discharge at Juhn Thori good.
Mr. BROTHER:I-ON pr..senttd five petitions fur the
repeal of the C rn,laws.
Mr, WILLIAM TURNER presented a petition from
500 tatholics of 13.ackburtie, against Church
Extension.
LOrd GRANV IL LE SOMERSET presented a pet!.
tion from Muntnouih, against any grant to tho Collect of
.I..aynootti.
Captain PE CHELL presented a petition frem Bognor,
in Sussex. against the wiudoa duty, and a p, ti!ton from
the Guardians of the Poor of Brighton complaining of
certain provisions in the Local Asyssnieiit Act.
Mr. WAKLEY prepented a petiti.n from 80 members
of the Eagle-street Chapel. Red Lion-square, stating
that they had built their own et>tpel, and paid
their own Minister, and they were opposed to any grant
for Church Extension, more espec ally as the Established
Church was the richest in the world--that there were 225
churches in London, and that it was propossal to build 149
more, which the petitioners had no obj..ction to prov!thd it
was done by private subscription instead of a publ'c tax.
Mr. Sergeant JACKSON presented a petition from
Wicklow against the present system of National Education
in Ireland.

General JOHNSON presented a petition praying the
House to address her iNlajesty. that Mr. F. O'Connor be
placed on the dtbtors' side of Yolk Castle, and not be
treated as a felon.

Mr. HUM E presented three petitions fr -m Brantford
against any grant of public money for Church Extension ;
also three petitions against. Church-rates, and ono praying
for the abolition of the Corn-laws.

Mr. SMITH presented a •petitioa from the Town
Council of Norwich, against that part of the Constabulary
Bill which consolidated the county and borough police.
Sir C. B. V ERE presented a petition from Suffolk to
the same effect.
Mr. FINCH presented a petition from Walsall, against
Church Extt nsion, and fourteen against the Copy right Bill.
Mr. HA STIE presented a petition from the Paisley
Emigration Society setting forth that, after working hard
for fourteen hours a day they could scarcely make more
than from 43. to 63 per week. They, therefore, prayed
that her Majesty's Government would ifford them
a free passage to Canada, that they would give
them a year's rations, and allot them lands, for which 0 ey
would give proinisscry Wes, payable at a future period.--
(A laugh.)
Sir EDWARD KNATCEIBULL was not quite sure
that the petition could be received, as it prayed for a grant
of money. Unless the Noble Lord gave her Majesty's
sanction the petition would be irregular.
Lord J. RUSS ELL considered that the petition re-
lated to a general subject, and did not pray for an actual
giant of money. lie bed no difficulty in g•ving leer
Majesty's sanction to the reception of the petition.
Tne petition was laid on the table.
Mr. BL A t:;KBUR.NE presentee a petition from the
solicitors and attorneys of Warrington, praying that the
Courts of Law might be removed from Westminster Hall
to Chsncery-lane.
Sir E. SUG DEN presented a petition from a soli-
citor of Dublin, complaining that whereas in England a
solicitor was called upon to pay 20/. only for his admission
into all the Courts, in Ireland he had to pay 201. for his
admission into each Court. The petitioner himself
had already paid 100/. for his admission into
the four Courts, and one Manor Court, and yet
there were many Courts of Record in Ireland
in which he was prevented from practising. The
consequence was, that many solicitors confine., themseeses
to the Court of Eschvgner, it being both a Court of Com-
mon Law and Equity ; that Court was overwhelmed with
bu,sness..,svhile the others had not their fair share.
Mr. CCM MING BI:. UC E presented a petition against
the employment of climbing boys in sweeping chimneys.
Mr. LITTON presented a petition from the county of
Tyrone, against the grant to the College of Maynooth, and
praying f,,r an inquiry respecting the mischievous and im-
moral books promulgated by the authorities of that College.
Sir R. PEEL presented a petition from manmacturers
and other inhabitants cf Troubridge and its vicinity
( Wiltshire) against the rating of stock-in-trade also a
petition from another place in tho same county, in favour
of Church Extension, and a petition from the parociii4l
minister of Angus and Nairn, against the jurisdic-
tion of the Civil Courts in Ecclesiastical affairs.
Mr. EWA RT presented a petition from Liverpool for
a repeal of tile post-horse and carriage duty.
Mr. Sergeant TAL FO URD gave notice, that on Tues-
day next he would call the attention of the House to the pe-
tition which he had presented from the Radical Club, respect-
ing the treatment of Mr. Vincent; also that on going into
Committee upon the Poor-laws Acts Amendment Bill,
he would move an instruction relating to the medical at-
tendance of the
TRENCH
.
Sir
with the Bude Light being made with aF .
gave notice that he would to-morrow
move a resolution to the of that the recent experi-
ments
t r
with all oxygen
up,
co n n theven
een common
am o
and danger
street a
n
at-
tended" the ho rg,ras'
were
attributed
to the use of that gas—( Cries of
t• n inued Oh, Ob, and laugh-
ter)—that they be therefore disco L h ( Laughter)---
ter )
and that the lustres be replaced—( Cries of " On, oh," and
great laughter)—with light silk shades instead of the iron
shades, which were used before.
—(S hotits of laughter.) I
se
a

The Offi 7A
cc-r also ,uf... 'notice that on Tuesday, the
„f. h , Inrl4l4.rda mo:ion respz:eting
the embankment of the Thames.
AO e:VENUES.
Lord JOHN RU.S.SELL gave notioe that he would
to-morrow more fn- leave touring in a Bill for the better
appropriation and distribution of the Revenue., of Canada.
Sr R. PEEL said, sqmetime ago, with the concurrence
of tLe Ri4ht Hun. President of the Bond of Trade, hr.
h,d moved for ecrtain papers rebating to the trade bet<ccen
this country and France. Those papers not having yet
bean oroduced, be wished to know whether they would hi'
expedited ?;
TRADE WITH PRANCE.
Mr. LABOUCHERE apologised for the delay, and
sAld he should take care that the papers were speedily
produced.
BRITISH GUIANA.
GLADSI UNE begg,A to ask the Secretary for
the Colonies whether the adoption of an increased Civil
List had been recommended to the Governor of British
Guiana, and whether the ratification of the emigration
ordinance had been made eoaditionai upon the settlement
of that Civil List ?

Lord J. RUSSELL said instructions had been sent
out to the Governor to "Propose a new civil list, in which
there was certainly n increase, and he had certainly an
objection to the production of the despatch, becau e the
matter was slit: under discussion in the colony. He hod,
nowcver, stated, Out he should riot recommend the grant
of any money for emigration, unkss the civil list expenses
were piot,riv sled for.
TREATMENT OF MR. O'CONNOR.
Lord J orisv it ,SELL having moveu tue Order cf
the Day.
Ali. I'. D UNCOM l E said, us it regarded prison ie-
apline, he to put a quostion to the Under. Sec
nay of the Home Deparitntot as to the treatment of Mr
I.'eargui O'Gmnor, watch had been fully detailed in the
petition wh.ch he had presented this evening. l'hic was
oils first ease in vvnieh a person convicted if a seditious
bad been treued with nil the ignolcolious purvsh-
ineot uts felons. It was treatmut which had ne%er been
tAperienced hy such persidis even in the worst dr.ls of
even in the
Why had not
)Allr. Edmunds
(ol6la.ruy.7toF(i)strcllP—lrertii:s•lo4l3toknUld,‘Lt:Cejthei:l;ibfirtceotrenlen:aeg.Bl,toh'.we—thY°(e"BlllPefd'd:Ointi'olitu.rrt)n Sin John Hob-
Minsk. been so treated when he was convicted of a hbel?—
k War.) nequestoon he wished to ask was this—whether
,tie treatment of Mr. Feargus O'Conitior was under an)
orders from the Government, and it nut, whether it would
oe Hiscontinuc.t?

Mr. FOX MA ULE said he was glad the qu,st:on had
been ask. u !.1' au erionvous impression had kole abroad
eat Mr. O'C,mnur's trkatment was uadcr Government
ordcrs. N w he begged Wstinctly to stat 1 that the Go-
vernment had issued no orders whatever as to the manner
in which the zetective shou:d be tarried oito effect. If
there had been any addit,onal severity in the treatment of
I,e,sons late* convicted of libels, t arose front th 3 proti.
sious u. the Act fur regniating pti•on discipline. Orders
itad, however, b. en seen; frutit the Secretor) of State to
the Governor of Yolk Cil6tit', directing certain relaxa-
tions, but to that co,ronuidcaLuti nu answer had as yet been
received.

Mr WARBURTON believee that the treatment which
political offenders at present underwent was owing to the
ate e f the taw upon the eui,ject. But a Bill had been
brought into that House six mouths ago for the purpose of
cbaeging that law. The Bid, however, had not yet passed
the House of ,arde, end he should say that lie did not feel
that her Majesty's Ministers had shown that attention to
the subject winich it merited.—( Hear, hear.) It as his
opinion that under the exiseing state of the law the
Government could not interfere in the treatment
to which political offenders might be subjected, but
they had the power of renievlng them from one gaol to
another, in which there might be a less severe dtscipliee
He should ask way her Majesty's Government should re-
fuse to avail tbeenselvt a ut tuts power ? But et any rate
why did they not take teo iii. ass of passing the Bill,
enieh laid already received the sameisn ut that House, in
order that new regulations might be adopted for the pur-
pose of moving tne present severity of the law
While on his legs be would allude to the treatment.
Lovett end Wilton had been suhjseted to. When that
subject was brought be fore the House there was a uniform
expression of opinion, including the Under-Secretary
fur the Herne Department, that as these parties had under
the existing regulations been subjected to more severe
discipline than it was imagined political libellers could bs
subjected to under the existing law, the parties should he
released from the remainder of the term (three
months) they having been imprisoned nine months.
The course her alejesty's Government took was, after
the expiration of soother month, to send down an order
for the release of these two prisoners. if they would enter
into reeoginsances for good behaviour for a' period of
twelve months after the expiration of the tern. of imp, ison.
mint to which they had ocen sentenced. He considered
that wee an illegal demand on the part of the Go-
vernment, and the parties of course rejected it.
He hoped her Majesty's Government. would take means
to expedite the passing _ of that Bill, order that her Ma-
jesty's Justicss of the Peace and the Government together
might be enabled to frame such regulations fur the treat-
ment of that class of offenders as would be more iu eccurde
truce to Ito nh:r practice.
Mr. HU.sIE sued they now understeed from the Under_
Secretary that the treatment of Mr. O'Connor was owing
to prison diseipline. He wished to ask whether two days
before the temoval of Mr. O'Connor certificate, had u,.1
been scut to toe. Government from two eminent medical
men, stating test it he wire removed to Yo.k Castle anti
so treated his life would be endengered, and whether these
certificates had not been utterly neglected? It areni,ti
to him that the Geversimeet exhibited a cool indifference
and an utter disregard of the teellegs of the community,
amid he could assure them that they were estranging those
who were envious to be their friends. It ap,Jearen to him
that they had exti feted a cold-Wooded indifference in the
pre sent case, and he hoped sumo explanatioat of the matter
would be given.
Mr. FOX NI A ULE said two questions had been pro-
posed to tone by tits lion. Fri eel who had just sat down
and the Hon. Nlembar for 13cidoon t. It was perfectly
tille that medical certificates were furieshed to the Go-
vertiment frern Nee prison of the Queen's Bench stating that
Mr. O'Coneur was not in a fit state to take the jour.
hey to York, and accordingly hits removal was delayed
from Saturday till the followleg Monday. With regard
to the second application. the course pursued was to send
it to the Marsoal of the Queen's Bench prison, he being
the reepoasible,person, and it was left to him to remove or
detain Mr. O'Connor as he thought fit. The result was,
that the Marshal te• the Queen's Bench prime) sanctioned
the removal of Mr. O'Connor, and gave the Government
to undet stand that there was uo ground for not sending him
on the score of indisposition. With !elitist to the case of
Lovett and Cams, when the subject was brought before
the House, lie (Mr. F. Mamie) admitted, as he was rtaay
to admit again, that their punishment had been too severe,
and has had also borne testimony to the manner in which
they had endured their punishment.—( Hear, hear. ) He
bad given hi; con,ent to an alteration that had been made
in time Bill to ...noble the Visiting Justices to make rules for
separating persons committed for political libels from the
class of feloes. Subsequently to that alteration, it was
deemed advisable te delay the third reeding, and it was
read a third time on the 9th of May, but owing to some cir-
cumstances, of which really he Was not aware, the
Bill did nut leave tnat Louse fur the House of Lords till
Thursday lest. With respect( to what had taken place in
the case of Lovett and Collins, his Noble Friend the Sc.
cretery of State for the flute Department felt it his duty,
on the reconimendation of the Visiting Justices, to recom-
mend to her Majesty to remit the remainder of their sen-
tence, accompanied with :he condition that they should
enter into their recognizences in the sum of 601, each to
be of good behaviour for twelve months. He was not
aware that that was an unusual prsctiee, or that it was an
imprudent step for his Noble Friend to take.—( Hear.)
Mr. BUISCOE was very much surprised to hear that
the regulations of York Castle compelled persons impri-
soned for political offences to associate with felons. He
trusted that such regulations would be speedily put an end
co, because such a mode of treatment, instead of acting
as a punishment, would excite the indignation of the
country.
Mr. O'CONNELL said there was this view of the
queition which he tviNl.ed to submit t) the House. It was
the outy of the Judge to apportion the punishment to the
criine, arid he was the responsible person. Now they took
away that power entirely from the Judge, if by these
prison re gulatiocs they left it in the hands of other parties
to say whatne, the imprisonment should be mere restrain)t
or actual torture ; the Judge was no !ringer the
responsible party in such a case. He merely
gave the durattun of the punishinsut, and it was
fur the Visiting Justices to say whether the im
prisonment woe to be insufferable or not —( Hear, hear.)
He remembered hearing tee Member for Suuthampton
stating that his experience of prison discipline
any man who came out of the prisons of England after two
bute be was,
ilo really
that
b
leark insprisono.ent bad his health materially
mhe impaired and
li;s life considerehly shortened. A a
that
tttime
thought the Hon. Member Was mistaken,
had taken the
punishment tweed that it was perfectly just. 't.
He slid not know that it
would be much better if left in the
hands of the
definedGovern_
by the law so
punishment out of the hands of the Judges and lodged it
in that of the Visiting Justices.
ment. It should be laid ()own and
that the Judges should hi open Court punish.
merit due to any off,nce, and if the
punishment
entre
ed
the country.
cruel it should be awarded before the bar an
aTzerrdee
dc o
tuol d
mhre. th
F. oi I,,Cnor o ideo. It us that treatment
was
g
• s nut in cense•
award
sequence of any approbation of the. conduct
which broueht
with
him there that he‘spoke, but comparing that treatment
the manner in which Sir F. Burdett bad
been treated, he
osnh
olcoulden not
mo
must
lope
defined a g voicethat
ha tin
againstav
ar
(i itilg them r the
s
so
was a subj•ct which could net rest---stbe
sathe Judge
should do so in the words of the law. tu e injustice.
f p u nTi ha et
Mr. WARD said that the Hon.
system. which
had poieted unt the real evil of the present
it bein .diffe-
was the variable nature of the punishment, g.
different localities where wa.s.en.
rent, according to theand Learned Member.
responsibility
forced. There was a constantly Ail
even in the conveyance of Mr.
the authority of the
Castle, he was not conveyed under
lat of the Marshal
Government or the Judge, but
ermcnoeudldfotrhae
under
tto be. Tho Honie
of the prison in which he happ ne .
F. O'Connor to rork
Office did riot consider itself res
Visiting Magistrates alter the rules by
their own power.
l
co
eu
sl
That have
It was scarcely credible that a gent :nil., feeling.—one who
political offence—a gentleman
been
lately been ato Member of othle
to his feelings than
must have been far more wounding
He hoped that the
anything which he could conceivue..ect
which had taken
expression of opinion on this s
P"saibrii ec'onndo
place—participated in, as he olhfanata-tbilmeunsieaT offices.
d thatthe
(sill effect, an
gentlemen ot.posite—vvould have.
establishing a simple and
would speedily be passed for es
plain remedy, which at leapt might prevent such ewes for
was jest
it had been, by
the futnre.—( Hear, bear.)
Sir GEORGE STRICKLAND said he thought it
was not fair to throw on her Majesty's Government the
responsibility of a transaction which rested entirely with
the,Judges, and the Viiting Magistrates. The Magis.

owes were, he. was convinced, men of honour; many cf.
hem he personally knew to he men of humanity deo. but
in this instance they certainly bad made a great mistake—
( Hear, hear)—arising, perhaps, from their excessive zeal to
carry cut their i.ew regulatons. It was right, however,
that this public investigation should take place, and he
hoped that when the M ,gistrates heard what had passed on
the subject, they would interpose an immediate remedy.
Mr Sergeant. J A CKSON said it did certainly appear
to him objectionable, that persons convicted of the same
offence ,tiouict be treated oifferstelly.--a(Hear ) It could
not, however, be expected that the Judge should be able
to sentence with any equality or uniformity, when the
prison discipline varied in different counties.—(Hear,
near. ) Thie showed the necessity of establishing some
uniform system of prison discipline throughout the
eountry.—( Hear.) Mr. O'Connor had been made to
perform offices which he ought not to have been called
e.oron to perform, and which to a person in his situation of
life would be extremely irksome and injurious. He
thought the punishment of this individual had been far
more severe than he ought to have received.
Mr. WAKLEY said that some person had incurred a
fearful re-poeeestiey in the present iostaece. From the ai-
tidavits which had been made before the Court of Queen's
B each it appeared that such was the state of Mr. O'Con-
nor's health that he could not address the Court without
danger to his lire, and yet shortly after this he was taken
rem Lonr!on to York and played in a stone cell. Now,
supposing that Mr. O'Connor should be deprived of h:s
lite, who, he would ask, would be answerable for the con-
s, quences ? lie had no hesitation in saying if Mr. O'Con.
nor tray to die, aryl a Coroner's lecteest sat uonn the body.
that a verdict either of manslaughter or murder must be re-
tut twit. He nopeo that something would be done on this
subject beyond mere talk. Oil this occasion the Ministers
were responsible for what. was now occurring; they ought
to take sonic steps on the subject, and send some persons to
York Castle to see the state in which Mr. O'Connor was
placed. They ought to send down one of their Prison In-
svelors. It. the Government were to blame let them be
the parties to re ceive it, and if the Vsiting Justices let the
hlhnie be thrown upon thritn. Fur his On n part he hoped
the Government would bring in a Bill to place the whole
prisons of the country ender the Government In the
Howe of Correction in this metropolis there was no such
severity maiiifeeted. He hoped that in the course of a very
le, days sonic positive information would be received from
the Govern. ent, showing that that relaxation had been
made %stile' jusiice end humanity imperatively demanded.
Mr. AGLIONBY felt some degree of hesitation
in bringites the subject forward until the rules and
reguletions of York Castle were laid before the House
He b: geed to suggest to the Neb:e Lord (Lord J. Rus-
sell), that when those rules were laid on the table, there
should also be a return setting forth whether any, and win,
relaxation had taken place in respect to Mr. Feargus
O'Connor; for the House and the public bad a right to
know if that gentleman was still kept in the department of
the felons, and was subjected to the same degrading. seve-
rities with that class of criminals. Mr. O'Connor's
4.ffenee had been similar to that of Mr. Stephens. Why
should their punishments differ, merely because they had
gone to dill. rent prisons ?
The ATTO RN E Y-G ENE RAL said no individual in
the country would m ire deeply regret that the statements
as to Mr. O'Connor's treatment, should be found correct.
He had f, It it his duty to prosecute Mr. O'Connor for
libels. which he (the Attorney-General) considered highly
dangerous so the peace of society.—( Hear, hear.) If
these statements were correct, certainly Mr. O'Connor
had been treated with a severity not contemplated by the
Judge.--( Hear, hear.) But he I elieved it would be
found that the law did not justify this treatment, because
the law made that distinction between felonies and misde-
meanours. which, the conaolaint was, had been overlooked
in this case. Undoubtedly, if these statements were true,
he would take care that immediate orders were issued to
alter the treatment.--( Hear, he: r. )
Id'. Sergeant I'AI,FOURD wished to state, that on
Mr. O'Connor's arrival dt York Castle, he wrote a letter
to hint (Mr. Sergeant Talfourd), informing him that the
gaoler bad stated he would be treated as a felon, except
that he might wear his own elfithes. He' returned an an.
swer that this statement was tro vogue for him ( Mr. Ser-
geant Talfourd) to take steps upon, and that he must
have some more specific allegations. Mr. O'Connor then
sent a long rimer:it, in the shape of a petition ; which,
though rather informal, contained statements undoubtedly
very powerful ; and he ( Mr. Sergeant Talfourd) there-
upon saw to day the Noble Marquis at the head of the
II ,me Department on the subject, in the presence of th,
Attorney-General, who yielded not even to the Hon.
Member for Cockermouth, who also 'vas present, in a
strong feeling that such treatment ought not to be perse-
vered in. That feeling was shared by the Noble Mar-
quis, who not till then had received full information of the
case—( ilear)—and immediate steps had been taken to
afford redress, which, however, should all the statements
of Mr. O'Connor be found correct (and he believed they
would he found mainly so, for they were written in a most
lair and candid spirit), he much feared would not com-
pletely be afforded to Mr. O'Connor, unless it was by
doing that which certainly the Government had the power
of doing removing Mr. O'Connor either; to the oebtor
side of York Gaol, or to some other prison, as in Mr
Vincent's ease, who had been removed from Monmouth Gaol
to the Peoitentiary.---( Hear hear.) He would just add.
that the statements of Mr. O'Connor cast no blame ore the
prison authorities, who, he admitted, bad only acted under
the regulations which were established, and also ?poke
highly of the surgeon of the gaol.
JUVENILE OFFENDERS BILL.
Sir EARDLEY WILMOT moved that -the House
should resolv.. ii,.elf into a Committee on this Bill.
Gaut ral JOHNSON was opposed to the principle
of the measure, and he moved that the House should go
into Committee on the Bill on the day six months.
Sir G. STRICKLAND thought that the Bill would
sanction great severity towards children. It would also
tske away the trial by jury in those cases where it was
most wanted. He therefore felt it his duty to second the
:intendment of the Hon and G illant Member.
Sir E. WILMOT said that the Hon Baronet was
mistaken in his opinion as to the severity of the Bill, and
its obj.'ctions could only apply to the details, and not to
the principle of tit:. measure. The House had already de-
cided that the Bill was an improvement on the former
system, inasmuch as it gave a summary jurisdiction in
certain cases to the Magistrates. The great object was to
save boys of tender years from the degradation and con-
tamination of a piison. It was a great surprise to him,
after what had taken piece, that they were again to dis-
pute the principle of the Bill He trusted that the
House would go into Committee on the Bill, and what-
ever was objectionable might then be struck out. He was
sorry to say that he had been most unfortunate in his en-
deavours to make Hon. Members understand that Bill,
Mr. J. JERVIS would support the Bill going into
Committee, though he objected to its principles; and he
did not sec how any alteration could make it meet his
views. These offenders would be tried in the absence of
the public, in the absence of the press, and in the absence
of the salutary check of the bar —( Hear, hear.) There
would, in fact, be nothing but hole-and-corner decisions.
These circumstances of themselves were sufficient to induce
hint to oppose the Bill.

Mr. 1 ARNE BY said that no one could be more op-
posed to the principle of the Bill than he was, hut he
thought it would be ulifair to the promoter of the Bill after
the !louse had decided in favour of the principle of it, to
refuse to allow it to go into Committee,

Colonel WOOD thought it would be a mere waste of
time to go into Committee upon a Bill, to the whole of the
clauses of which every Hon. Member who had spoken had
expressed him elf nptms'•d.

Mr. WARBURTON would vote for going into Corn-
mime upon the Bal.
Sir E. SUGDEN objrcted to the machinery of :he
Bill, and obj.,et(d to the power proposed to be given to
the Mazistrates ; he should, therefore, oppose the Bill
passing any further et•.ge.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL approved of the
principle of the Bill. and should vote for its going into
Committee. in order that its details might be amended.
Mr. PEASE f.•lt grateful to the Hon. Member for
Warwickshire for having introduced the measure.
Mr. AG LIONBY supported the Bill.
Mr. BENETT opposed it, as it would throw great
responsibility ou the Magistrates.
Strangers were ordered to withdraw.
The House divided, when there appeared—
For the motion
For the am,ndment . 22
Majority
The Bill was then committed—Mr. FRESHFIELD in the
Chair.

'lnc Committee, after some discussion as to where they
ought to begin, the former Committee having been counted
out, commenced in the middle of Clause 1.

Mr. PR YM E moved after the word " hear and try,"
be added, •• so that all juvenile offenders should be tried
before a Jury of six persons."
Mr. F. MA ULF: said such an amendment as that
would do away with the principle of the Bill; he could
r•ot support it
Mr. DA RBY was opposed to the Bill, but he was more,
opposed to reducing Juries, and he could not attempt to'
defeat the Bit by a side wind. He must oppose the
amendment.

Mr. E. BULLER opposed the amendment.
Sir G. STRICKLAND was opposed to the reduction
of the Juries—Le was a Conservative so far—but he would
orefer a trial by six jurymen to no trial at all.
Mr. WA K LEY thought the words "in open Court"
ought to be added, because he decidedly objected to these
dectsione and ennvi( Vona heing had in private.
Sir EARDLEY WILMOT was sure the Hon. Mem-
ber had never attended Courts of Justice, or he would not
make such a suggetion. It was never intended that these
decicions should take place in private.
Sir GEORGE STRICKLAND had frequently seen
persons turned out of Court, and as the law was not de-
fined on that point, he thought it would be advisable to in-
sert these work
Sir EDWARD SUGDEN thought the suggestion of
the Hon. Member was calculated very much to embarrass
the question. With respect to the amendment of the
Hon. Mother for Cambridge, he certainly should object to
small jury of six—the law provided that they should
either have a jury of twelve, or reject the jury altogether.
He hoped, therefore, the arraer.drneut could be wi hdrawn.
After a few words from Mr. DARBY, the Committee
divided, when the numbers were—.

For the amendment
A ga"..ist it

a
On our return to the prity llery, we fout,d —23
Mr. WAK LEY on his legs, stating that he would per.
sist in moving the introduction of the words " in open
Court."

General JOHNSON reeved that the House be
counted, and strangers were ordered to withdraw; but
there being 42 Members present, the galleries were again
opened ; and, on our re-admission, we found that the
amendment of Mr. Waldey was negatived without a di,
vis'on.

Colonel WOOD preposei an amendment, that the fine
should be not exe..e,ling 505., and, ;n the event of the fine
not b,ing ptid, to give the Magistrate the power of corn.
mitting for any l'eriod not exceeding three calendar
months.

I Sir EARDLEY WILMOT opposed Vie amendment,
as it was calculated to upset tae B II ; and, if it was car-
ried, he would have nothitig more to do with the measure.
Sir GEORGE STRICKLAND thought the amend..
went was a very valuable one, and he hoped it would‘be
carried.
Mr. AGLIONBY objected to the amendment in the
form in which it was proposed.
Colonel WOOD said his object wm, that Vie child
might be liberated at any time during imprisonment, on
payment of the fine, and that the imprisonment should
not exceed three months under any circumstances.
Mr. BRISCOE hoped they would proceed in future ow
the principle that reformation not punishment was the ob-
ject of the Bill.
Mr. BENETT objected to the amendment, because
when children had no parents they would be punished,
while those who had would escape by paying the fine fur
t) em. He felt that the whole system of the infliction o
fines was a system of injustice.
An HoN. MEMBER moved that the House be counted.
when there being but thirty-five Members present, the
Howse adjourned at Half.past