The Sun.
London, England, 1847-05-29 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, MAY 29, 1847.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought
no excuse had need to be made by the Hon. Gentleman
for bringing forward the present motion. It was one of
great importance, yet he moped under existing circum-
stances the House would Dear with him, if he did not
attempt to follow him through the various items to
which he had referred, as in another Parliament it
might be found necessary to increase the amount of
direct taxation, and therefore he regretted the question
was brought forward at the present time. With this
general declaration he considered it would be the best
course for him not to go into the details of the question
now, but leave it to a future and more fitting occasion.
Mr. R. YORKE hoped the Hon. Member (Mr.
Ewart) would, after the declaration of the Right Hon.
Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) postpone
the subject. In another session of Parliament there
would have to be a general revision of taxation.
Mr. HUME said the business of the night was the
voting away of the public money, and therefore ha
thought the question was one which was fairly entitled to
consideration. He for one thought the whole excise
system should be revised, and as there was a league es-
tablished to effect this object, he wished it every success.
They would soon have to elect a new Parliament, and it
would depend on the people what Members should be
returned, and what should be done with the excise-laws.
The duties on soap, paper, and bricks, were most oppres-
sive, and if the people were true to themselves, this
would be accomplished. There were many ways in which
the expenditure of the country might be reduced, in
order to effect improvements in the taxes ; for instance,
a million might be saved by withdrawing the cruisers
from the coast of Africa, where they were doing no good,
but evil.
Mr. WILLIAMS complained of such motions being
brought forward, unless they were persevered in. There
was one omission in the statement of the Hon. Member
for Dumfries. It was the reduction of the expenditure,
as well as the carrying out of direct taxation. He
would call their attention to the fact that the estimates
in 1835 were seven millions less than they were in the
present year. Year for year the increase of the esti-
mates has been going on. He called upon the Chancel-
lor of the Exchequer to explain
.how this took place.
The country ought not to be satisfied with this state of
things, or with the tax roll of fifty-five millions of money,
It would, in his opinion, be better that the sense of the
House should be taken in a direct motion on this sub-
ject.
Col. SIBTHORP thought the best course would be
for the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the
Exchequer to give up his office to the Hon. Member for
Coventry. It would be then seen what he could do in
his new position.
Mr. EWART said as the subject would have to come
fully before the House on a future occasion, and after
the expression of opinion which had been elicited, he
would for the present withdraw the motion.
The motion wag then withdrawn.
MISCELLANEOUS ESTIMATES.

The House then went into a Committee of Supply,
and on a vote of 77,8061. being proposed to be taken for
the expenses of the Mint,
Mr. HUME thought a better system than the present
for the management of the Mint might be contrived. It
was the only ancient institution which had not been re-
formed, and it possessed all its ancient abuses without
being any benefit to the country whatever. It appeared
from the returns, that on recoining 11,000,0001. sterling
the public were subjected to a charge of 40,0001.; instead
of that, the institution ought to maintain itself as in France,
America, and other countries. With great unwilling-
ness he succumbed to the business of the House, and did
not press for a Committee of Inquiry, but he entered his
protest against the payment of this money, and called
on the Government to take the matter up as a Govern-
ment question, and reform it altogether.
Mr. SHELL defended the officers of the mint. They
were not blameable for the large amount of expenditure.
There certainly were some things objectionable in the
management of the mint, but the officers engaged in the
mint were not answerable for them.

Mr. HUME said he did not blame the officers, but the
system. This country was paying more for this depart-
mvnt than any other country in the world.
Mr. SHEIL was rejoiced to hear that Hon. Gentle-
man did not question the morality of the officers engaged
in the mint.
Mr. WILLIAMS complained that the department
was in the hands of a private company, whereas it ought
to be in the hands of the Government. He hoped the
Right Hon. Gentleman would turn his attention to this
subject.
Sir GEORGE CLERK said there was a good deal
of uncertainty in the work supplied to the contractors
of the Mint. These contractors had a large capital in-
vested in the business, and it was not to be won-
dered at that when they were called upon suddenly to
throw chat a certain amount of work it involved the
country in a large expense.
Mr. HUME was not aware that the contractors had a
large capital lying dormant,
Mr. SHEIL said it was true the Government
found the machinery for the Mint, but the miners had to
keep that machinery in repair. He entertained an ear-
nest hope that ere long some useful modification would
take place in the system.
Mr. THOR NELY wished to know when the country
might expect the issue of 2s. pieces?
Mr. SHEIL said he had consulted his Right Hon.

Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer upon the sub-
ject, who was more officially responsible for the issue
than he was, and his Right Hon. Friend had promised to
give his attention to the subject. He had, therefore,
given instructions to the engraver of the Mint to hold
himself in readiness to prepare the die.
After some further conversation, the vote was agreed
to.

RAILWAY DEPARTMENT.
On the question that 17,0001. be voted to her Majesty,
to defray the expenses of the Railway Commissioners
services,

Colonel SIBTHORP said he could see no necessity
why the country should be put to such an expense. It
ought to be paid by the railway companies.
Mr. HUDSON said he did not approve of the Board.
All the railway companies considered it quite uncalled
for, and ho could not agree to the suggestion of the
Hon. and Gallant Gentleman opposite. In selecting
the officers of the Railway Board, he regretted that Go-
vernment had not appointed gentlemen who were con-
versant with the railway system. 8,0001. a year would
be quite sufficient for the expenditure of the Com-
mission.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that the annual expenditure of the board was only
12,0001., and he was quite sure that the ability and
integrity with which the Hon. Gentleman conducted his
own affairs put a much larger sum into his pocket than
that now proposed as a salary for the officers of the
board.
Mr. HUDSON—Oh, but that is a mere speculation
—(Laughter.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that. the appointment of the board was most popular,
and the object of the Government was not to have any
one upon it who was connected with railroads, in order
to secure perfect fairness, and to leave no room for
jealousy or suspicion of favouritism.
Col. SIBTHORP said that one of the duties of the
board should be to ascertain how far compensation has
been given, can be, and must be given to the families of
those who have been injured by accidents upon railroads,
which he was sorry to observe were daily occurring.
The Government were bound to take care of the lives of
the people, and they should, therefore, pay attention to
the subject.
Mr. STRUTT said, that an Act was passed at the end
of the last session for the purpose of giving compensa-
tion to the surviving relatives. He had also to assure
the Ron. Member that there was no portion of their duty
to which they paid so much attention as to the causes
of accidents. And when they heard of the melancholy
accident to which reference had been made, they sent
down a very able engineer, with whom they had asso-
ciated, Mr. Walker, a very eminent gentleman ; and
they had communicated with the other departments of the
Government, in order that some steps might be taken.
The Board of Ordnance had also sent down engineers
—(Hear, hear)—to examine into the circumstance of
the case. _ _

Mr. HUME considered that it was most important to
' continue the commission, and that it should be sup-
ported in an efficient manner.
Mr. WILLIAMS did hope that her Mai( sty's Go-
vernment would place great power and control in the
hands of the commission, even so far as to extend to
the regulation of the goods on the different railways.
After a few words from the CHANCELLOR of the Ex-
CHEQUER. and Mr. HUDSON,
Mr. HUME wished to know whether the Government
had any return by which they were able to ascertain the
number of third class carriages in which the passengers
were obliged to stand.
Mr. STRUTT said, that under the terms of the Act
passed last year, each railway company was obliged to
run one train, at least, during the day, at a speed of not
less than twelve miles an hour, and at the charge of -a
penny the mile, closed and with seats ; but whether any
company thought fit to run any other carriages at a less
cost, or with less convenience, was an affair of which the
Act took no cognisance.
The vote was then agreed to.
PUBLIC RECORDS.
_ _ .

The sum of 12,812/. was then proposed for the ex-
penses of the offices of public records, compensation to
officers, &c.

) Mr. i)ItoTHEROE hoped that some safe and perma-
nent place would shortly bo prepared for the reception
of the public records, in order to reserve them from the
very unsafe position in which many of them were now
placed.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that the subject was under the consideration of the
Government. There was, however, considerable diffi-
culty in obtaining a suitable site for the erection of such
a building, which he
hoped would soon be met.
Dr. BO WRING thought that attention ought to be
bestowed by the Government in the collection of the
early records of the histories of this country, which were
believed to exist in great numbers, and of great value,
especially some of the writings of the monkish historians.
Great progress had been made in collections of this kind
by the different countries on the continent.
Mr. PROTHEROE thought it a matter of import-
ance to consider in what manner it would be best to give
the information which would be so collected to the
public.
After a few words • from Mr. Protheroe, Dr.
Bowring, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the vote
was agreed to.
INSPECTORS OF FACTORIES AND MINES.
A vote of 13,0341., to defray the expenses of the sala-
ries of the inspectors of factories and mines was then
agreed to.
HEREDITARY CROWN REVENUES.
The sum of 1,7551. was then proposed to defray the
expenses of certain officers in Scotland, formerly de-
frayed out of the hereditary crown revenues of that
CO
Mr. WILLIAMS atjected to the vote, 11° had