The Sun.
London, England, 1841-04-29 00:00:00

,/

with the responsibilities of office, had undertaken the
adjustment of this question—( Hear, hear)—that they
had undertaken, first to define the franchise, and next
to amend the admitted abuses of registration—abuses
which they themselves did not deny, and which they
themselves acknowledged to be gross and indefensible
—(Hear, hear)—but they also took up this ground,
that there was a risk, in improving the registration, of
narrowing the franchise in Ireland—that there were
evils in an undefined franchise, on account of the con-
flict of the judicial authorities, and that therefore the
two questions ought to be settled together—that the
franchise ought to be defined, and that those abuses
ought to be corrected. In attempting, however, to
define the franchise, her Majesty's Goverment made
a proposal for subverting the franchise.—(Loud cheers
from the Opposition benches.) In the Bill introduced by
her Majesty's Government, the preamble recited that
doubts and difficulties existed as to the present fran-
chise, and that it was desirable to clear them up ; but
the practical mode in which they met those doubts and
ditlieMties was to aubvert the existing franchise, and to
substitute another in its place—namely, to take occu-
pancy, as tested by the rating, as the qualification for
the county constituency, while a 5/. rating was
to constitute the franchise in all cities and towns
in Ireland. I understood the Noble Lord
(Lord Howick) to make a decided objection
to the principle of that franchise, on two grounds—first
he objected to a uniform franchise as applicable to the
counties and towns of Ireland, and next he objected,
on principle, to the abolition of a profit from
land as an clement of the county franchise.
The Noble Lord, therefore, proposed by way
of an amendment, first to embody the principle
for which he contended, with the measure of the Go-
vernment, and which amendment, so far as the first clause
was concerned, was simply this—that a beneficial in-
terest or a profit from land should be a sine qua non,
and an indispensable condition in the county franchise.—
( Hear.) We entered upon a discussion of that question,
and I
distinctly understood the other night that we
were then discussing a main—an essential principle of
the Bill—(Opposition cheers)—a principle which was
to regulate tie future constituency of Ireland. The
Noble Lord (John Russell) has stated that he had
subsequently discovered that the suggestion of
the Noble Lord the Member for Northumberland
and of the Hon. Gentleman near him, with respect to
the beneficial interest, was an addition or supplement
to the franchise which he himself proposed, and that
therefore there would be now no inconsistency in ad-
mitting that additional franchise, as it would only extend
and widen the constituency of Ireland ; while by
a supplement of his own he would endeavour
to enlarge the constituency. Why if anything could be
clear and decisive on that point, it was the explanation
of the Noble Lord himself when he brought forward his
proposal, for the Noble Lord stated that he proposed
his amendment for the beneficial interest as exclu-
sive of every other franchise. The Noble Lord
the Secretary for Ireland placed the seine miscon-
struction on the declaration of the Noble Lord, upon
which the Hon. Gen'leman the Member for Halifax,
in the clearest and most decisive manner, said to the Noble
Lord, " You are wrong in your construction of our
amendment—you think that it will lead to an
unsatisfactory franchise, and that it will exclude many
who ought to enjoy it, but in this you are altogether
mistaken." Why I was quite surprised at the pains
the lion. Member for Halifax had taken, particularly
after what had fallen from the Noble Lotd, to show the
nature of the amendment, and I find it impossible to
understand how it could be resisted by any one unless on
principle. But on principle it was resisted.—( Hear.)
Upon a principle so overbearing—so overwhelming, that
it compelled the Government to overrule it as tar as
was in their power. If you are going to define the
franchise, surely you can du it without excluding some
of those voters who would be enfranchised by the
amendment of the Noble Lord ; yet the principle was
found to be so overbearing by the Government that be-
neficial interest was wholly to be excluded.—
(Cheers.) I do not in the least quarrel with the
explanation of what fell from me, given by the
Noble Lord ( Howick), but I think it better that the
House should draw i:s inferences from a repetition from
an Hon. Member himself, than from the recollection
or the impression made on the mind of another. What
I did say on the occasion was, that if it was proved to
me that the just expectations that were entertained
under the Relief Bill or the Reform Bill have been
di appointed—if it be shown to me that there has been
such a diminution of voters as will not leave a sufficient
and intelligent constituency in Ireland, in that
case, I would not be indisposed to consider a remedy,
but if I must apply that remedy—if convinced of its
necessity—l would feel myself compelled to contend
that a profit from the land should be an essential quail-
ficetion for the franchise—(Cheers)—and I said also
with respect to the definition of the franchise
no authority short of the responsible Government of
the Crown ought to take up such a measure, or could
be expected to bring it to a satis'actory conclu-
sion. I do not say it out of any disrespect to the
Noble Lord ; but if I were to give my assent
to send up a Bill to the House of Lords,
containing a new franchise introduced, not by her Ma-
jesty's Government, but by a Noble Lord, who, as lie
said himself, was unconnected with any great party in
the State, upon materials such as we have before us,
I cannot assent to the setting up a Si. franchise. I
think it necessary then to go into the details of
the measure, despairing as I do of coining
to any satisfactory conclusion upon such information as
we have. Whatever the forms of the House may be,
or whatever they may sllow, I would consider that I
should be guilty of deluding Honourable Mem-
bers if I were to give my assent to the definition
of the franchise tides's, and at the same time,
I could give a reasonable assurance that it was
probable that the Bill should pass into a law. I ask,
then, ern I not justified in saying that in so important a
matter as the formation of a new franchise, it is
absolutely necessary that the party introduc-
ing it ought to have the confidence of the
Crown and act under the responsibility of office ?
Now then, if those were my opinions on Monday, after
one day's interval, and the information received by us
since, can my feelings have undergone any change ?
Here is a general Report of the Commissioners ap-
pointed by the Attorney-General for obtaining infor-
mation on the subject. I have to persuse it, but it is
very difficult to keep pace with the supply of those
documents.—( Hear, bear, and laughter.) In the 24th
pease of the second General Report is the passage—
" There are not materials before us to form any calcu-
lation as to the probable amount of electors which the
adoption of a franchise, regulated by any given amount
of rasing combined with tenure, would produce."—(Op-
position cheers and laughter.). That is the Report of
the Commission appointed by the Attorney-General.
I have no friends to supply me with information ; I can
form no other judgment than on the information sup-
plied, yet I am asked to constitute a new franchise, and
these are the materials I have. lam told that " There
arc no materials to form any calculation as to the
probable number of electors which the adoption of a
franchise, regulated by any given amount of rating
combined with tenure, would produce." I look to
another paper, and I find that in 1837 the 101.
householders in each city of a county in Ireland, were
13,555, and that the 101. householders in boroughs
were 9,408, making together 22,963. I take the year
the Attorney-General selected as that in which
it would be most probable the expectatiohs of the Re-
form Bill were fulfilled, and I find the number of per-
sons rated at 51. and upwards in eighteen unions, con-
taining cities and towns, was 23,000 101 electors in
1837, and 113,932 tenements rated at and above 5/.
in those eighteen unions.—(Loud cheering.) I am
aware that the cities and boroughs are not co-terminous
with the union, but before forming any judgment as to the
effect of any franchise I determine on, would it nut be
necessary that I should know the number of tenements
existing is the respective districts? The Noble Lord said
when the 51. franchise was proposed it was nut his inten-
tion to increase the franchise, and the Noble Lord said
that he did not expect that the 5/. franchise would lead
to any sudden or material increase in the number of elec-
tors. The Noble Lord stated that he thought the gene-
ral tendency of the 5/. franchise would he to widen the
constituency, but he did not think it at all probable that
any sudden increase in the number of electors would take
place. If those are the intentions of the Noble Lord, am
I not justified in the course I have adopted, namely, de-
claring that, in rely opiniou, no one can deal with a
question of this immense importance immense
importance with respect to its practical results
in Ireland—immense importance as being a question
that is considered capable of further extension, unless that
person could make a proposal founded on all those means
of obtaining information which Government possesses, and
unless he brought forward the measure on the responsi-
bility of the Government. With respect to the Noble Lord's
proposition, conceiving that this is a question which ought
to be dealt with so as to be permanently settled, though
Ido not dissent from the general principle of the Noble
Lord, yet I would be guilty of exciting false expectations,
if I did not declare from the information that has been
supplied, that I cannot, consistently with my sense of duty,
support the details of the Noble Lord's proposition.
Lord MORPETH said he did nut intend to go fur-
ther into the course which the Government would pursue
until they came precisely to that question. He merely
wished to advert to an observation that had fallen from
the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite. He stated that the
other evening he distinctly understood that the House
was deciding a question of principle.—(Hear.) That
that condiitin was the sine qua non of the future construc-
tion of the franchise of Ireland. He (Lord Morpeth) must
say that the Right Hon. Baronet had understood directly
the reverse of what he (Lord M.) had stated. The deduc-
tions might have been illogical or not, but he had stated
'distinctly that he looked on the first amendment on which
the House had been called on to come to a vote, as one,
the adoption of which would be inconsistent with the defini-
tion of the franchise or the remodelling or altering, so as
to meet with the consideration of the House. Or course
he admitted, and it would be idle for him to conceal, that
the words actually adopted by the House, did imply that
the principle of a beneficial interest, and even the very
amount of beneficial interest, contained in the Reform Act,
should be engrafted he the subsequent provisions of the
Bill. The beneficial interest prescribed by the Reform Act
was a beneficial interest of 101. This, his Noble Friend
proposed, should be evidenced by au occupation, carrying