The Sun.
London, England, 1840-02-05 00:00:00

'MITI' SUN, LONDON, W.I4_,DNIA,SDAY, FEBRUARY 5.140

effect on the country at large, and that it would lead
to the desired result of stemming and turning the tide
of infidelity, blasphemy, libel, and indecency, which was
at present, for some cause or other, suffered to inundate,
he might almost say, t•) desolate the land.--( Hear.)
After a few observations from Lord A -3HBURTON,
which were not heard in the gallery,
The Bishop of EXETER replied, and vindicated the
conduct of the Clergyman whose conduct had been ani-
madverted upon by the Noble Marquis, for having fur-
nished him (the Bishop of Exeter) with certain informa-
tion. That Clergyman would never have put himself
forward had he not been desired to state the truth, and to
state all that he knew upon the subject.
The Address was then agreed to, and their Lordships
adjourned at Half-past Ten o'Clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS Fit. 4.

The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock.

Mr. VILLIERS brought in tho V 4 olyerh.mpton Gas
Bill, which was read a first, and ordered to be read a
second time, to-morrow.

Sir CHARLES STYLES presented a petition from
a parish in the county of Donegal, complaining of the ex-
treme limitation of the elective franchise in Ireland.

Mr. VILLIERS presented a petition from Cornwall for
a repeal of the Corn-laws.

Mr. G. W. WOOD presented a petition in favour of
copyright in designs.

An HON. MEMBER presented a petition from a parish in
Hampshire, praying the House to take steps to check the
progress of Socialism. The petitioners complained of the
annoyances to which they were them,eltes subjected, in
consequence of the Socialist meetings held upon the Sab-
bath in their neighbourhood, at which the most mischievous
and blasphemous doctrines were propounded.
Mr. STRANG WA I'S presented a petition from the
borough of Wareham, in the county of Dorset, against
Church-rates and the Ecclesiastical Courts.

Mr. BAILEY presented a petition from the city of
Worcester in favour of Church Extension.

Mr. PAKINGTON and General LYG ON presented
similar petitions from paces in the county of Worcester.
Sir GEORGE STRICKLAND presented petitions
from places in the West Riding. of Yorkshire, praying for
the immediate abolition of the Corn-laws.
PRIVILEGES OF PARLIAMENT.

Mr. ERLE presented a petition from an individual,
whose name we understood to be Blake, setting forth that
his attention had been drawn to the recent proceedings in
the. House on the subject of the privilege of publication ;
and that, having suffered in the year 1813, by the privi-
leged publication of statements which were injurious to
him, and were made before a Committee of the House, in
which he had no opportunity of answering them, he prayed
the House that in the event of any change being made in
the exercise of that privilege, the House would allow means
of redress to persons against whom ex parte and untrue
statements might be made before its Committees or in its
published papers.

Mr. NV 7.11 N ELLIS presented a petition from certain
inhabitants of the town of Leicester, praying that the
House would appoint a Committee to inquire into the prin-
ciples of Mr. Owen.
Mr. COLQUHOUN presented a petition from Glas-
gow, praying that the House %sould withdraw its confidence
from Ministers.

Mr. WARBURTON pi esented a petition from Mr.
William Pare, superintendent of births, deaths, and mar-
riages at Birmingham, praying for inquiry into the charges
made against him. The petition was ordered to be printed
with the votes of the House on the question of Socialism
on Thursday next.
Mr. LABOUCHERE presented a petition from St.
Paul's Chapel, Taunton, against Church-rates; also a
petition from the Lord Provost and Citizens of
Glasgow, complaining of the manner in which the
private business of the House was conducted,
and praying the House to adopt measures for the improve-
ment of the constitution of the Committee on Private
Bills, and to require the constant attendance of the Mem-
bers of such Committees during the examination of wit-
nesses, and the whole proceedings. The Hon. Member
said he should move the petition be referred to the Com-
mittee now sitting on Private Bills.
.....

Mr. HUME presented a petition, signed by 250 inha-
bitants of the village of Merton-Tooting, and adjoining
places, praying that a Committee might be appointed to
inquire into the doctrines of the Socialists. The Hon.
Member said that he had been furnished with the Rules
of a Socialist Society, in which he was not able to see
anything objectionable. Also a similar petition from
the inhabitants of the Potteries, in Staffordshire, praying
that Robert Owen might be examined before the House.
Mr. VILLIERS presented a petition for the Repeal
of the Corn-laws. Also from Stage Coach Proprietors,
complaining of the existing system of duties.
Mr. POWER presented petitions from Newtownbarry
and other plats in the County of Wexford, praying for an
extension of the franchise, and also for Corporation Reform
in Ireland.

Mr. KELLY begged to ask whether it was true that
the three prisoners convicted of high treason at Mon-
mouth, had not merely been removed from that gaol, but
whether they were not now, while the question was sup-
posnd to be under consideration as to what should be their
ultimate fate, on their passage from that country to a placo
of transportation ?

Mr. FOX M ALT LE thought he had answered that
question already.—( Hear, hear.) The state of the case
was, that these three prisoners had been removed from
Monmouth Gaol—they were not then on their passage to
any foreign country, but they were on their way, if they
had not already arrived at the Hulks at Portsmouth.

PRIVILEGE.
Mr. HUME begged to ask .vhethcr the Sergeant-at-
Arms had any report to make with respect to Mr. Burton
Howard.

The SPEAKER having called on the Depu:y- Ser-
geant, who was in attendance, that officer stated that a
rnessenger from the house went to Mr. Burton Howard's,
but he could not be found, and his wife said that he was
in the country.
Mr. HUME wished to know whether Mr B. .Howard's
son had been directed to attend. He understood from
his lien. Friend the Member fur Finsbury, that some fur-
ther evidence would be laid before the House on that day,
and it appeared to him to be trifling with the House.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that after the report that
had just beer, made by the Sergeant-at- Arms, and the fact
that when the Messenger went to his house, he was in-
formed that he was gone to Hull, he thought it
hardly possible that if Mr. Howard was in any
way desirous of evading the orders of the House,
he should not, being an Attorney, and having an office in
London, have been informed of the orders of the House.
The Right lion. Gentleman, the Member for Montgo-
meryshire, had on a former occasion stated most correctly
the constitutional doctrine regarding the orders of that
House, viz., that persons were bound to be aware of them,
and to obey them. One would not wish to press that
doctrine in any case where there was a probability that the
party was not aware of the order having been given.
He thought, however, there was sufficient to show that the
party in the present case wished to evade the orders of the
House, and that there had been quite sufficient to induce
the House to agree to the motion with which ho meant to
conclude—That Mr. Howard be ordered to attend at the
bar of the House, and that the Sergeant-at- Arms be
authorised to take him into custody for that purpose.
Sir E. SUGDEN would suggest that a milder course
be pursued, which he thought would be equally satisfacto-
ry. It was to come to a resolution, that leaving the notice
at the house of Mr. Burton Howard should be deemed
good service of such notice. Such was the practice adopt-
ed by Courts of law under similar circumstances.
Mr. O'C 0 NNE L L said, it seamed to him that the method
proposed by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who had just
sat down would be exceedingly inconvenient, because
if it was held to be technically necessary to serve
these documents at the house of the individual
in question, it would be in fact doing away with
the practice as laid down by the Hon. Member for Mont-
gomery, that every person was bound to be aware of the
votes of that House.

Sir ROBERT INGLIS felt bound to protest against
the doctrine laid down by the Noble Lord on the autho-
rity of the lion. Member for Montgomery. He said that
every person was bound to have knowledge of the
votes and orders of that House—why, the votes of the
House of to-day would not be published or delivered for four
days to come, and yet of those orders, according to the rule
now laid down, all her Majesty's subjects were required to
be cognizant. The law required that every person in the
realm should be cognizant of the statutes of the
realm—the reason of it was this—in early times
those laws were declared and published by the Sheriffs at
the Market Cross on market days, but no such publicity
had ever been given to the orders and proceedings of that
House. Therefore ho considered it would be the greatest
act of tyranny that had ever been committed to come
to a resolution that the votes of that House were as
binding on her Majesty's subjects as an Act of Parliament,
and that they were all equally bound to know it. Why
they were demanding a physical impossibility. The
House might come to a resolution at one o'clock
on Tuesday morning, and then they contended that all the
Queen's subjects were bound to know it immediately.—
( Hear, bear.) And if they were not bound to know it on
the Tuesday, why were they more bound to know it on
the Saturday ? He did not know if this motion were for
the Speaker to issue his warrant for the immediate appre-
hension of Mr. Howard.

The SPEAKER thought it would be more in order if
the motion were read front the Chair before any debate
should be commenced upon it.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL thought the best method of
wording the motion would be '• That Thomas Burton
Howard be taken into the custody of the Serjeant-at-Arms,
and brought to the bar of the House, and Mr. Speaker do
issue his warrant for the apprehension of the said Thomas
Burton Howard accordingly."
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said it was unneces-
sary to enter into the speculative question whether the
votes of the House should be known by every individual
whom they concerned.—( Hear.) In the case before the
House he thought there could not be the slightest ground
for doubting that Mr. Howard must have had ample no-
tice of the Orders of the House.—( Hear.) The notice
had beer► left at his dwelling-house. Did any Member
doubt that he was perfectly aware of it ?—( Hear, hear.)
Mr.-Sergeant JACKSON wished the House had be-
fore refrained from those speculative assertions of right
which had led the House into the subsequent embarrass-
ments. He also rose to enter his decided protest
against the doctrine that the resolutions of that House
were to be supposed to have the same publicity as the re-
gular law of the land which had received the assent of the
three estates of the realm.

Lord MAHON said the Noble Lord (J. Russell) had
yesterday stated that he did not think there was sufficient
ground for believing that Mr. Howard was setting the
House at defiance. HerlMajesty's Attorney-General had to-
day stated that there was. He (Lord Mahon) was at a
loss to reconcile these contradictory statements.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he thought now that, with all
possible latitude of credulity, it could not be conceived that
Mr. Howard was not fully aware of the order of the House.
Sir R. PEEL said he did not give his rote for the
motion on the supposed knowledge by the public
of the proceedings of that House---( Ilear)—he did not
think there was any necessity in the present case for
entertaining that question—(Hear)—but he believed that
a person was here throwing impediments in the way of
public justice, and obstructing the purposes of the House,
and, therefore, he thought himself quite justified in taking
a more summary process of compelling his attendance.
Mr. Howard was at the bar ten days since, an explanation
amounting to an apology was made by him, and he was
discharged. Another notice of action had since been
served by the same party on their printer, and he (Sir R
Peel) thought there was so strong a presumption that
there was an intention to defeat justice by keeping out of
the way, that he had not the least hesitation in taking the
most effectual step to insure Mr. Howard's attendance.
Sir R. INGLIS acknowledged that if there was any
justice in the proceedings of that HQUSC, that then Mr.
Howard was doing wrong in keeping out of the way. But
he denied that there was, and lie admired the conduct of
any man who refused to submit to a tyrant majority.—
(Cries of " Oh, oh 1")

Mr. G °CLEW RN' could not acquiesce in the doc-
trine of his H,mourable• Friend who had just sat
down. If the House were to acquiesce in those doc-
trines, it would be effectually prevented from exercising
its most important functions. According to the doctrine
of his Hon. Friend, a party was to judge for himself
whether his attendance was requisite or not. Why, if
that doctrine was applied to any witness whom the House
might think fit to call for, it would be impossible for the
House to conduct its business.—(Cheers.) Was the
House to wait until the witness might be convinced of
the justico of the call ?—( Hear, hear.) He was ready to
take the most lenient course of dealing with every witness
whose services the House might require; but it was
right, after giving them every time to fulfil voluntarily
the duties the House required of them, that they should
exercise the power they possessed of compelling them to
attend —( Hear, bear.)
Mr. F. SHAW held that everybody ought to obey the
summons of the House, and he could not entertain in his
mind any moral doubt that Mr. Howard had received
notice to attend. He should, therefore, vote for issuing
the Speaker's warrant.
Sir E. KNATCHBULL contended, flint no cause
having been assigned, the Speaker would not adopt so
altogether singular, unprecedented, and informal a pro-
ceeding, as to issue a warrant for the arrest of that party,
without assigning in the warrant what the offence was.
The SPEAKER said. the only precedent he could call
to
Leonard mi n d
Boltonasa
s andewhich
twoococtuhrerresd iwneArelaraerhr,eslteeedl,own
thehen
Speaker's warrant for not having attended at the bar
pursuant to the order of the House.
The Clerk then read the
CLASSES.
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istricts, with a view to
the
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bringd
wisdom of Parliament can de-
of which he had given notice for a Select Committee to
inquire into the causes of discontent
remedies rasasthpeossible, any reasonable grounds
amidst great bodies of
of complaint, in order thereby to strengthen the attachment
applyvt
see
,w toors work
eienr
nhgor
veceml,aeass ds
of the people to the institutions of the country. In rising
dd s the House he felt deeply sensible of his inade-
quacyto arcs
to perform the duty ; but he entertained a deep-
seated conviction of the importance of the subject,
and had given it his best and most laborious at-
tention.
He would venture to say that a question of
greater importance could scarcely be brought before the
House than the subject he was about to enter upon, and
he trusted that
would grant him their indulgence as
one trespassing on their attention. He did not
mean
upon any topics which could at all inflame
the
public
notto
often
n
but he would endeavour, to the best of
his power, to suggest the remedies that ought to be op.
ert
etenmind,r
re
plied to the evil. He would apply himself, in the first
instance, to the true cause of the discontent that
had prevailed, more or less, amongst the groat body ,
of their fellow-countrymen in the densely peopled
districts of the country for a considerable num-
ber of years past. In 1812 great dissatisfaction pre-
vailed in the four midland counties of England. Persons
calling themselves " Bloodites " were spread over Lanca-
shire, the West Riding of Yorkshire, Cheshire, and Not-
tingham. They met but at night, and they were armed in
military array, and training took place. They began with
the breaking of machinery, but subsequently proceeded to
other acts of violence. At that time the murder of a most
respectable manufacturer took place. In 1815 there were
strikes of the working classes on the Tyne and the Wean—
( Here there was considerable noise from the number of
Members leaving the House ) He implored Hon, Mem-
bers to give him their attention, or at least to absent them-
selves for a short time.—( Hear, hear.) In 1817 there
was a general ferment amidst the working population in
many of the districts which were most thickly peopled.
That contined for some time, and spread over various
districts, and the events which occurred were still remem-
bered at Manchester with feelings of regret. There had
been great
the Government.
disaffection,
In I ttoand 2
and various
presleBcutf thereonions
the
part of was

the rising of a considerable number of persons in Derby,
headed by Braedreth—they marched through a portion of
the kingdom in armies, and were only dispersed by force,
13randrcth and scvcral of those who shared his crime,
being tried, and executed for high treason. After the panic of
1626, there were many strikes, and there was also much
violence. The strikes were exceedingly injurious to those
coinected with the respective manufactures, who were
well disposed. In 1827, there were meetings of delegates
at the Isle of Man, and a combined system of strikes was
organized. In 1830, and in succeeding years the trade
discontents merged in political agitation. There was the
well-remembered march of 43,000 men through London ;
the Trades' Unions, and the Working iMens' Associations
were formed ; and about 1836, the principles of what
was called Chartism were first enunciated. These Char-
tist principles had since been widely disseminated. It was
known they included five claims—Vote by Ballot, An-
nual Parliaments, Universal Suffrage, Equal Electoral
Divisions, and No Property Qualifications. The result
had been that great discontent had prevailed among the
working classes. He did not wish to speak with harsh-
nesss of the Chartists, who, however mischievous they
might have been, were perhaps some of them sincere. He
had entered into this statement to show that the dis-
contents were not merely temporary --and transitory,
but that they had been the result of long growth.
He would now venture to allude to the real causes of their
discontent. Hon. Members would perhaps be divided in
opinion as to their causes. Hon. Gentlemen opposite
might perhaps attribute all this dissatisfaction and all these
disturbances, to the agitation following the Reform Bill.
Hon. Gentlemen on this side would on the contrary
ascribe it all to the denial of the working classes of their
share in the suffrage. He implored the House to lay
aside the consideration of both these causes, which he
thought had better be debated on separate occasions, when
motions on the subject were brought forward. It appeared
to him, the great causes in which they were to look for
the discontent which had arisen among our manufactur-
ing population, were to be found in the great change
which had taken place in the social condition of
the great body of the people, which had not been ac-
companied by any progressive legislation. He would
state some of the causes, and afterwards their effects :
The war gave us a monopoly in commerce and manufac-
tures, and the discoveries in machinery gave us the domi-
nion of what might be called twenty millions of pairs of
hands, which needed neither sleep, nor refreshment, nor
clothes to cover them, the effect of which had been
greatly to multiply the numbers who were brought to-
gether i4ticular places. He would state shortly the

change had taken place, and afterwards show that
change Ott% had taken place, and afterwards show that
no corresiosadent change had taken place in the legislation
of the country to assist those persons whose situation was
so changed. In 1790 the workmen who dwelt in towns
were bo tiie agriculturists in the country as one to two,
but at Resent the proportion was exactly changed ; in
forty years the number of persons employed in agricul-
ture had increased 40 to 45 per cent., whereas those
call-o°s d in manufactures had increased 120 per cent.
In thirsty y. ears ending 1831, the increase in Manchester was
101 L; in Glasgow, 103; in Leeds, 99; and in Liverpool,
100 per cent. A change
.had taken place in the condi-
tion of the people, which had been unattended to by the
Legislature. He did not intend to cast blame on the Le-
gislature of this or any former time, but its attention hav-
ing been engaged by other questions, no corresponding
legislation to the great changes that had taken place had
been made to the benefit of those great bodies of the
people who were congregated together in thickly popu-
lated districts. He would point ::ut the physical evils that
existed, first, in the absence of all salutary provisions for
the improvement of their dwellings; secondly, in the
ab-
sence of any provision against those fluctuations in em-
ployment which were continually taking place, and
which led to the very worst results ; thirdly, as
respected this want of being able to partake in any religious
instruction whatever, and fourthly, as regarded the defi-
ciency of education among their children, to teach them
their duties. The Poor-law Commissioners, in their re-
port, stated that there were large districts in the east of
the metropolis, including Shorediteh, Bethnal-green, and
neighbourhood, where families were living in cellars, and
kitchens, ill-drained, dark, and extremely damp, where
epidemics and infectious diseases were of frequent occur-
rence. These diseases entailed very considerable charges
upon the labouring clams, who were frequently thereby
thrown into a state of destitution. There were many other
statements of a similar character with which he did not
intend to trouble the House, but he would ask any man
who had the least feeling for the working classes, whether
he could hear these statements without being deeply
affected? The Hon. Member then read the report of a
medical officer on the state of Holborn-hill and that dis-
trict, and who stated that no outlay for fever hospitals
would be of the slightest use without other precautionary
measures. In the district of George the Martyr, South_
wark, containing a population of 50 000 the circumstances
of distress and disease were equally' aggravated, and the
same might be said of a large district close to the
House, St. John and St. Margaret, Westminster.
Gentlemen who enjoyed wealth and luxury had no idea of
what the poor suffered. And yet their sufferings might,
with a little care and attention, be mitigated greatly if not
removed. The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to refer
to the Report (not yet laid before the House, but which
he had by favour been allowed to peruse) of the Hand-
loom Weavers' Commission. A more valuable document
never was presented before the House. The condition of
the weavers appeared to be truly awful. Tumbling down
houses, with broken windows—narrow elle) s—open drains
—noisome ditches—aud all kinds of filthy nuisances. The
Commissioners alluded to the evident tendency which all
this wretchedness had to demoralization—the happy and
contented workman had no temptation to those vices
which so destroyed the morals of the wretched and mise-
rable poor.—( Hear, hear, hear.) He would now refer to
the state of the Glasgow population. Mr. Simpson had
given similar testimony as to the wretched state of the
lower classes there. Li Nottingham, there were 7,000
out of 11.000 houses without proper drainage and ventil-
ation.—( Conversation on the part of the Members present
hero induced the Hon. Member to entreat them to go
into the lobby or the library, and allow him to detail
statements which he believed important to the best inter-
ests of the lower classes.) The Report of the Statis-
tical Society for 1840, was well worthy of perusal.
inhabited.
In Liverpool there were thousands of cellars
In Manchester, 30,000 persons—one-seventh of the popu-
lation —lived in dark, close, unventilated cellars. There
were also 2,200 courts, quite unventilated. In York, on
the contrary, there was not a single cellar inhabited. It
was evident, therefore, that the rapid growth of the new
towns had caused the distress. In Bury—the population
20,000—out of 3,000 labouring persons, 773 slept three
or four in a bed ; 250, two or three in a bed ; at least up-
wards of a thousand were in such utter destitution. It
was most important that, in districts so densely popula-
ted, private benevolence would avail little ; the Govern-
ment should interfere with sanatory regulations. In Bris-
tol, one-third of the lower classes of houses were without
drains, and upwards of 1,000 houses without water, or
with very bad water. Then as to Newcastle-on-Tyne, in a
population of 64,000, there were 2,600 criminals—mostly
women ; and the poverty and filth was awful. In Leeds
the drainage was dreadfully neglected; there were 13,000
houses under 10/. ; 13-17 the of the whole. A great propor-
tion of the streets or alleys were impassable for vehicles,
and lines with linen drying were hung in most of them.
The deaths of infants were more numerous than in
any other district ; and the town was marked out in the
account of the Registrar-General of Deaths as one of the
most unhealthy in the kingdom. He was aware that these
details must be very wearying to the House ; he had many
others, which he would not trouble the House with, re-
serving them for the Committee, which he trusted would

was 106 000—therefore in that large town four out of five
had no means of obtaining religious in,truction. In the
metropolis it appeared that seven-eight:ls of the popula-
tion were similarly circumstanced. In Bethnal-green
there were 10,000 without any educatioa. In the six
Parishes in the suburbs of London there were 180,000
without education, or I in 27 educated. In 17 of the
principal towns in England the number educated was only
1 in 24 : in Manchester it was 1 in 35 ; in Birmingham 1
in 3, ; and in Leeds 1 in 31. He hoped another Session
would not be suffered to pass away until some remedy had
been applied to these evils, until education and religious
instruction had been provided—until the working classes
were insured from want of employment. The police returns
showed that the country was in a ft ightfully increasing state
of crime, and in the borough of Liverpool alone the
expense of supporting criminal was not less than 700,0001.
per annum. Let them apply the sum, incredible as it might
seem, to the expenses incurred in the metropolis
and the other large towns of the kingdom, and they would
find that it amounted to a sum infinitely greater ten times
told than the amount he asked of the House for the im-
provement of the condition of the working classes. The
expense of establishing the Rural Police was 450 000/., in
the metropolitan districts the amount was 250,0001., in the
boroughs 100.0001., in London it was 40,0001., making a
total o 850,000/. ; but that was not all. The expenses
paid out the Consolidated Fund and from the county
rates, as connected with crime, and of which he had got
an accurate detail, amounted to 352,0001. per annum.
The prevention of crime in England costs altogether
602,000/. a-year. There was one other part to which he
should allude, that was the immense increase which had
taken place of late years in the consumption of spirits.
That was an increase, as it appeared to him, which would
indicate the misery and the state of crime of the people.
The consumption of ardent spirits had increased, in a period
of not many years, from 9,000 to 29,000 gallons in the
United Kingdom, and instead of being confined to one
gallon to each of the population it had increased to one
gallon and a half. The quantity of duty now drawn from
spirits amounted to 8,250,000/. a-year. He did not think
they should draw that large revenue from the crimes and
the follies of the people ; and he thought they ought to
take some steps on that subject. The increase he had
alluded to had been no where so large as in Scot-
land.—(Hear.) He held in his hand a paper which
showed that in Glasgow there was a spirit shop
for every ten houses. in England he found that, with a
population of 12,000,000, the yearly consumption of spirits
amounted to 22,000,000 of gallons ; in Ireland, with a
population of 8,000,000, it amounted to 12,200,000 gal-

. ga.
lons ; and in Scotland, with a population of about
3,000,000, it amotr.ed to 6,700,000 gallons. In Scotland
the consumption was three times its amount in England, and
nearly twice its amount in Ireland. ( The Hon. Gentle.
man then proceeded to say that education was the great
want of the population.) He was aware that questions of
the nature he had brought forward were distasteful to the
House, and he knew they would prefer discussions of a
party nature. Nothing, however, in his opinion, could be
of more importance or more useful than the question he
was submitting to their consideration. The Hon. Mem-
ber then concluded by stating his motion.
Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN rose for the purpose of
seconding the motion. He felt that a subject of
greater importance than the present could not be
submitted to the House, and he gave his thanks to the
Hon. Member for Shrewsbury for having afforded the
House the opportunity of having deliberated upon the mat-
ter. There were certainly strong grounds for inquiry into
the subject, and he was convinced that the condition of
the working classes would require to be investigated more
fully than it had yet been in that House. Last year there
had Leen petitions presented to them signed by
1,250,000 of the labouring classes, complaining of their
condition. That fact alone should show that there were
grounds for inquiring into the matter. It was obvious
that the working population were now endeavouring to
transfer power to themselves. They were claiming Uni-
versal Suffrage, Vote by Ballot, Annual Parliaments, the
absence of a property qualification for Members of the
House and the payment of Members. He thought that
though none in the House could think that those measures
should be conceded, yet much might be done to satisfy
those who complained of the present order of things.
The 101. franchise, for instance, which existed in towns,
might be extended to counties, and a large portion of the
present malcontents would thus be enlisted to the cause of
order. As to the Ballot, be, for his part, looked upon it
as an evil, and if they enlarged and equalized the suffrage,
he believed it would be perfectly unnecessary. Large
constituencies always protected themselves, and bribery and
intimidation were impossible among them. Education was
one of the means of improving the country which they
should resort to; he did not think it had hitherto been
sufficiently encouraged in this country. He believed that,
in point of refinement, the people of England did not oc-
cupy that rank which their station among the nations of
Europe should entitle them to. On the Continent
they might find in every large town libraries, museums,
galleries of natural history, and botanic gardens open to
the people; while in England there were not more than
half a dozen such institutions to be met with. There was
another expedient which he thought it would be of the
highest advantage they should have recourse to—he meant
a sound system of emigration, which he thought would
remove the traces of poverty from the land. He would
not now, however, allude farther to that subject, as it was
his intention to call the special attention of the House to
it on a future occasion. There were other questions which
he should wish to see submitted to this Committee, and he
regretted that the Hon. Member for Shrewsbury proposed
to limit his inquiries within such narrow limits. For in-
stance, the financial returns showed that the great bulk of
the taxes were paid by the lower orders of the people
( Hear, hear)—and therefore the Committee should inquire
into that subject. The currency also should form a subject
of inquiry, inasmuch as thousands were liable to be thrown
out of employment by the operations of the Bank parlour
on the currency. The administration of the New Poor-
law Act had been stated as one of the main causes of
Chartism, whilst the advocates of that measure assured the
House that it had not only reduced the rates, but had con-
ferred great benefit on the labouring classes. Now if this
were so, it would be desirable to ascertain the reason why
so large a portion of the labouring classes objected to it.
The Corn-laws also—(A laugh from the Opposition)—
Gentlemen smiled at his entering on so large a field of
inquiry ; but how were they to discover the causes of the
dissatisfaction without it ? For his part he believed that
inquiry would show that the Corn-laws were not so much
to blame as had been supposed. Committees had been
appointed by that House, embracing quite as large
a field of inquiry.—( Hear, hear ) The Committee
which was appointed in the year 1830 to consider and
report upon the condition of the Irish poor, was a case in
point ; that Committee had ended by recommending to the
House no less than nineteen Bills, and it was the opinion
of every one who had considered the übject that it had
been one of the most useful Committees ever appointed.
He hoped that this would not be considered a party ques-
tion, and that the Ministry would take that opportunity of
convincing the working classes that their interests were not
neglected by the Government, but that it was really anxious
to promote to the utmost the happiness and welfare of the
people.
Mr. LAMBTON entertained great doubts as to the
utility of this motion. There were various opinions as to
the causes of the discontent. During the debate last week
Hon. Gentlemen opposite had attributed them to the Go-
vernment, so that the Committee woul I have to investigate
the whole of the proceedings of the Government. He thought
one great cause of the discontent was the great ignorance
of the working classes. He saw thousands of them deluded
by the grossest misrepresentations, and led away by the
most absurd fantasies—his remedy for that would he National

EVEN ;IT I N

e did not consider that any practical good could result
from the appointment of a Committee on the limited plan
suggested by the Hon. Mover.
Mr. INGHAM would by no means attempt to follow
the Hon. Member for Kilkenny through the desultory
series of contentious and exciting, as well as irelcvant
topics which he had thought just to name.—( Hear.) He
wished the Committee which had been proposed by the
Hon. Member for Shrewsbury from motives so benevolent
and laudable.—( Hear, hear.)—he wished that Committee
to apply itself to objects of really practical utility. It had
been truly stated that the working classes were not ge-
nerally aware of the facilities given by recent Acts for the
establishment of Friendly and Saving Bank Institutions, in
a manner calculated to enable them to avail themselves easily
and with effect of the salutary plan of depositing. Could
the lower classes be induced to avail themselves more
generally of such institutions, the result would be
highly beneficial to the community, for the acquirement of
property gave the possessor an immediate and powerful
interest in maintaining allegiance to the laws. The allot-
ment system was calculated to produce no small benefit to
the labouringh classes.—( Hear, hear.) As to the
right of primogeniture, it was so inseparably associated
not only with the laws, but with the habit and feelings
of the people, that even if abolished from the statute
book, it would be maintained by voluntary consent.—
(Hear, hear.) And he believed that, anxious as the people
might be to possess landed property, they would not gene-
rally d sapprove of the law of primogeniture, and
they would preter transmitting their estates to their eldest
sons, in contradistinction to the minute subdivision of Ind
in vogue on the continent, especially in France. Before
he sat down he would just mention that the Hon. Member
for Shrewsbury had rather been misled by the apparently
appalling increase of crime in Newcastle-on-Tyne—by
the returns declaring that some 2,600 criminals were its
the town ;—the fact being that-those returns included the
most trifling offences against the police.
Mr. BROTHERTON said, although the poor could
not inherit land, every poor man's child should have a good
education.—( Hear.) He could not but remark on the
enormous increase of intemperance which had recently
taken place. He believed that a people were much more
lt
iaolnesd a
rb,
nyutahl
leyi r
were
ei crees s tuhnakn—b
lyo
st
t_h e
iGn Government. nm
crimeen t .
of Fti
nf t
tye
mmptel -
ranee. How soon could the people attain comfort and con-
tent, would they but discard the habits of intemperance.
Whereas the consumption of ardent spirits was dread-
fully on the increase. It had augmented from
9,030,000/. to 50,000,0001. within the last twenty or
thirty years. In E land th —ntion was seven

y y ,ng ie consumption ',—
pints to every man, woman, and child ; in Ireland thirteen;
in Seo land, twenty-three. In England the cases of in-
sanity were one in a thousand ; in Ireland, one in eight
hundred ; in Scotland, one in 450. Thus it was plain
that insanity was the result of ardent drinking. From
all the inquiries he had made, he was sure that intempe-
rance was a main cause of crime.--( Hear, hear.) And
he was convinced that the people themselves must be the
chief authors of their own improvement, which must always
principally be the result of amendment in their moral
habits. —( Hear-)
Mr. %TILL lER,S wished to make a suggestion to the.
Hon. Mover—not to be the unintentional author of a delu-
sion on the people. The present terms of the motion
pointed to all the causes of the existing discontent, whereas
the Hon. Gentleman intended to limit the inquiry to some
points. Should not these subjects, then, be expressly stated
in the appointment of the Committee ? He believed that
the House were more disposed now to be just to the great
masses of the people ; but the people were much more
alive to the character of the legislation of the House.
Lord J. RUSSELL said the great difficulties he felt
as to the appointment of this Committee were, first, the
terms in which the motion had been couched ; and se-
condly the declarations of some of the supporters of the
motion. He should not feel justified, as a Minister of the
Crown, in recommending an inquiry into many subjects on
which he was not aware that any precise remedy bad been,
or would be suggested. Still the inquiry might have a
beneficial effect in discovering some means for the improve-
ment of the people, in the manufacturing districts espe-
cially. But he really had not the same opinion as to in-
quiry into such questions as the Poor-laws—the Corn-
laws—the Franchise—and the Law of Primogeniture.
These were too important for a Select Committee. He
(Lord J. Russell) might hold notions which did agree
with those of the Hon. Member for Kilkenny with respect
to Universal Suffrage, and ho was not likely to be con-
vinced by the Report of a Select Committee on the sub-
ject.--( Hear, hear.) He did not think that any good
would result from the motion as it was at present worded,
inasmuch as, according to the argument of the Hon. Mem-
ber for Kilkenny, it would raise hopes in the people which
would not be subsequently realized. It was quite clear
that if hopes were held out that a Committee should be
vappointed a
Suffrage,
oaginer
Airnenui the
al arli pmreonbtasb, laenidn flvouetnece
by of
Ballot,Uni
in ameliorating the condition of the wet king classes, and
then, after sitting for a Session, that they should come t*
no result, they would be justly liable to the imputation of
exciting false hopes in the minds of the people. If the
House was disposed to entertain the question of Universal
Suffrage, let it be brought fairly by a motion before the
whole House. As regarded the condition of the working
classes Marge manufacturing towns, there were many things
which might be legitimately brought under the considera-
tion of a Select Committee, because, when a large popu-
lation had suddenly sprung up in a mining or manut 4e-
luring district, it must be obvious that the means of educs-
tion, of religious instruction, and of police, must be total!e
inadequate. Although in Manchester, Birmingham, Sae%
field, and Leeds, they bad sometimes to lament t!‘e
occurrence of disturbances, yet the state of the popnlation
in these towns was far more satisfactory than in the large
manufacturing villsges, if he might so call them, where
there was nothing like a local government, and where
there were no persons of great wealth with whom the
labouring classes might become connected.—( Hear, bear. )
The great object in these cases was to supply the deficien-
cies in the local governments, and religious and moral in-
struction of these communities. For his ( Lord J. Russell's)
part. he considered the metropolis, containing within a
small space a greater number of human beings than they
had any authentic accounts of having been collected to-
gether at any former time, he considered that its
population furnished an example of as moral a
body, conducting themselves with as much regard
to all the considerations of civilization and social feelings as
could be found in any part of the world, and although in
the present year, 1840, the population was very much in-
creased beyond what it was in 1780, the safety and freedom
from riot and disorder was very much increased also.—
( Hear, hear.) He thought the question of large masses
of the population being crowded together without proper
cleanliness and ventilation, and the consequent production
of fever and disease, was one of the points which might pro-
perly come under the consideration of the Committee. If
the Hon. Member would amend his motion so es to exclude
the question of the political causes of discontent, he ( Lord
J. Russell) would not object to it, and he would add that
the subject of religious instruction was likely to be brought,
by many other motions, under the consideration of the
House.
Mr. BRISCOE objected to the manner in which the
Hon, Member had shaped his motion, inasmuch as he sug-
gested remedies, while he at the same time moved for a
Select Committee to inquire into the cause of these griev
ances.—( Hear, hear.) One of the great grounds of com-
plaint among the people was the inequality of taxation, in-
asmuch as they were impressed with the belief that most
of the articles of necessity consumed by them were
more heavily taxed than the luxuries of the tich.
Now if they were mistaken on that point, it would
be the duty of the Committee to undeceive the people,
or to suggest a remedy where they were right. Ho
le