The Sun.
London, England, 1847-06-22 00:00:00

SOUTH COAST FISHERIES.

Captain PECHELL asked whether th. A a,.;-..1.j-
-were aware of, and if so, what steps had been
taken to avoid the recurrence of an invasion
of the fishing ground off Worthing, which was occupied
by five French fishing vessels on the 15th, 17th, and
19th May last, with nets, fishing for mackerel?
Mr. WARD said that particular attention had been
paid to this trade. Inquiries had been made, and if any
further difficulties should occur, a case would be sub-
mitted to the Secretary for Foreign Affairs to regulate
the subject.

:CEMETERIES.
Mr. E. B. ROCHE said, that seeing the Hon. Member
for Leamington in his place, he wished to ask him whe-
ther he meant to bring forward his Bill on the subject of
Cemeto ries, and whether it was his intention to extend
the Bill to Ireland.
Mr. MACKINNON said he had been assured that the
present Government would consider this auestion.
MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.

Messengers from the Lords brought up several Bills.

RAILWAY BILLS (Na.s IL).

• _
Mr. STRUTT rose to move the order of the day for
the second reading of the Railway Bills ; and seeing-
that there was a motion on the paper, he felt that
this was the proper time for him to make his
statement on the subject. So much misconception
had gone abroad that he was satisfied that the time had
arrived when the House and the country should be put
in possession of what was in the Bill, and what was not
in it, in order that no public misconception might arise
upon the subject. He could not conceive that could be
the object of the opposition to this Bill, which was in
fact one consisting entirely of detail. The Bill
on this subject, which constituted the general rule was
passed through its second reading, he believed during the
session of 1844, and that without the slightest opposition.
After some discussion on this reading, the Bill was
suffered to pass into a law. But when it was said that
there had been greater experience at an
after time, and that improvement could be made,
although he was at a loss to conceive how an
amendment could arise from the present motion,
as it at present stood before the House, as there
was nothing could excuse the companies. An amend-
ment was introduced by an Hon. Member who is now a
Member of the House of Lords. That occurred
during the session of 1845, and the Nobleman
who moved it was Lord Wharneliffe. The object
was, to subject all railway Bills, notwithstanding
any peculiar clauses, to the provisions of future
general Acts. Upon this another nobleman, who was
at that period a Member of that House, had moved
another amendment, which limited the effect of the
clause to the maximum of fares and charges to be
made by companies under the authority of after Acts.
He did not mean to rest the question of this Bill on this
clause so noticed. It had been noticed: to all parties
who were at present complaining, and it was a matter of
astonishment to him how it could be objected
to. In the session of 1846, a Committee
was appointed by both Houses of Parliament,
with a view to suggest some mode of railway legislation.
That Committee made a special report, in which
a number of regulations were suggested, which were
adopted in the present Bill. It further recommended
that a distinct department of the Government
should be instituted, for the express purpose
of managing these matters, a similar report was adopted
in the House of Lords, and in consequence of these
reports late last session of Parliament, the Government
brought in a Bill which passed through both Houses of
Parliament without any opposition. It was intended
then that further legislation should take place early
in the next session, but he distinctly denied that Mr.
Gladstone's Act was regarded as a final compact.
By the legislation of the House of Lords last session it
was decided that before any railway company should
enter upon any land for the purpose of surveying it,
they should deposit a certain sum of money as a
security that he should be remunerated for any
damage, and also a certain notice was requested to
be served upon him. There was a local inquiry estab-
lisked also which had been the subject of much misap-
prehension in the House. The inquiry did not involve
any examination of a itnesses, and was performed by an
appointed officer without much expense to the public or
to the parties. That inquiry would be of service in pre-
venting a long course of legislation before a Committee,
and in some degree it obviated the necessity upon the
Committee of either rejecting the Bill or doing an in
justice to the landowner. Formerly when the land-
owners suggested another course of railway, they were
met by the observation, that the company could not
accede to it, as their plans and sections were reported.
That was obviated under the present Bill, for if the
company acceded to the request of the landowners, the
company had power to authorise the adoption of the
new line, or if they refused, the landowner had the
power to deposit the plans and sections of his proposed
line and meet them in the Committee. The next ques-
tion to which he would shortly advert, was, as to the
hearing before the commisbioners. The Bill which
directed such a hearing before the commissioners, who
were to report upon it to the House, was objected to in
this part. He was not surprised at this in persons per-
haps connected with interests concerned; but he thought
that another hearing besides the commissioners would
only be adding one evil to another, which, according to
the objections was assumed to be an evil. He thought
that a perfect knowledge could be gained of the Bill
and the project by means of that tribunal, and without
the aid of counsel. Again, in regard to the matter of
tolls, the Bill directed that inquiry should be made on it,
and a report presented to the House. He had heard many
complaints that full information as to fares had not been
afforded to Committees, and it was proposed to have a
report on this part of the subject. It was objected that
these propositions would lead to an extension of the time
for making railways. Now, he thought that would be
conferring a benefit on both railway projectors and land-
owners, and would have the effect of leading to the selec•
Lion of the best lines. He came now to the remaining
part of the Bill, which regulated existing lines. Under
the present system the magistrates had no power to ap-
point police, and to pay them. Now, under the proposed
system, that was done away with, and they need
not wait till the commission of actual outrage
before they established a constabulary force.
The third object of the Bill was to prevent unnecessary
stoppages. At present the regulation of mails was in a
most unsatisfactory state, no principle or rule was laid
down in the present law by which the decision of an
umpire was to be regulated ; the tribunal which the
Government and the railway company had recourse to,
when any disagreement arose, had no rules to guide
them in their decision. He did not object to
arbitration—but there should be some guiding principle
laid down which should regulate the compensation to be
given in all cases. Another amendment proposed was
one which had reference to the carriage of police and
military upon the lines ; the fares upon many had been
greatly reduced, and by the contracts which the com-
panies had, they were entitled to demand more for their
carriage than they could for the conveyance of private
persons. The objects of the new enactments was to
obtain information, and give the public notice what is
doing. One of the provisions was that it should be in the
power of the board to obtain returns, and test them by
reference to books. It was objected to this provision
that it might disclose matters which were of secrecy
and of private confidence. Now he was not aware what
could be the nature of these secrets; but if any gentle-
man could show of what nature they were, he would be
quite ready to meet them, and make them special objec-
tions. It was said that it was not desirable that the
salaries should be made public ; now he was of a con-
trary opinion, for take the case of a railway on which a
great number of accidents occurred—they might be "
traced back to an incompetent or ill-paid staff.
He now came to the question of penalties, as to which
there had been a great deal of misrepresentation. If
laws were to be made for the purpose of regulating the
management of railways, he thought there must be some
penalty attached to the infringement of them. The
common informer, however, was not to have a premium
for his negligence, as was the case with regard to the
violation of some laws, but the penalties were only to be
levied at the suit of the Crown. He, therefore, thought
it unfair that since the provisions were so equitable,
the misrepresntatiors which had been made concerning
them should have gone forth. Having now gone through
the most of the regulations proposed in the Bill, he
would proceed to state what were the intenti°ll* of the

Government with regard to this measure. The Bill was
unavoidably postponed till this late period of the session
in consequence of the measures of greater urgency
that were required for Ireland, and which ab-
sorbed the attention of the Government to the exclusion
of almost everything else. Now, however, that it was
introduced, he understood that it vas to meet with the I
most formidable opposition, and as at this late period of
the session there would not, under such circumstances,
be the slightest chance of passing it into a law. The
Government thought they would be acting wisely in
putting an end to all fruitless discussion, which would
lead to no practical result.—(Hear, hear.) They there-
fore thought the best course for them to adopt
would be to withdraw. the Bill for the present
session.—(Cries of " Oh, Oh," laughter and cheers.)
They were determined, however, to introduce another
Bill founded on the same principles as soon as the next
Parliament assembled.—(Laughter.) He now begged
to move that the Bill be withdrawn, and further pro-
ceedings with regard to it suspended for the present.
Colonel SIB'PHORP thought it extremely uafair
that the public and the Members of that House should
be so trifled with by this—the worst and the last Go-
vernment Bill— (Laughter)—and that Members should
be brought down and treated so contemptuously. He
thought the Honourable Member behind him (Mr.
Hudson) was too honourable a man to be in league
with the Government on this business, but he
thought there must have been some gross underhand
management, or mismanagement, with this Bill.—
(Laughter.) When he saw a Government daring to
act in this manner he thought it most disgraceful.
He reserved to himself the opportunity however of
bringing before the public on the first occasion that
offered, the whede system of railways, and he would
bring forward an array of facts which the gentlemen of
the press, conversant as they might be with many dis-
graceful things connected with railways, and assiduous
as they were in collecting, and faithful as they were in
detailing them. would fill them with astonishment.—
(Laughter.) If the late Mr. Pitt were alive, he would
exclaim, " Oh, my country, to what a state are you re-
duced."—(Hear, hear, and laugher.) s';': For himself, he
would say, that he had done his duty. He did not
believe the Government had any intention of bringing
in a Bill of the same kind next session; they were
too cowardly to do so. He regretted that any Govern-
ment bad shown such pusillanimity, but that would not
deter him from bringing before the House the facts to
which he had referred, that the public ought to have,
and which he was determined they should know the
very first opportunity.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. ROEBUCK wished to put a question to the Noble
Lord at the head of the Government. He thought a
more undignified course had never been taken by any
Government than that adopted by the present Govern-
ment with regard to his ouestion. He found from
mobtue put upon the Woks this evening that
the Chancellor of the Exchequer intended to pro-
ceed with this Railway Bill, and now after listening for
the last two hours to the Right Hon. Gentleman at the
head of the railway department, expounding the provi-
sions of the Bill, the whole concluded with the announce-
ment that it was to be withdrawn for the present ses-
sion. He would suggest to the Noble Lord that this was
not the way to conduct the public business, and he did
not think the present proceeding would raise the Noble
Lord in the estimation of the world at large. If he
thought he could not carry the Bill this session, the
more dignified course would have been to tell the House
so at once, and not lose their time in this fruitless
and unnecessary manner. He wished to ask whether it
was the intention of the Noble Lord to proceed with the
Railways (Ireland) Bill, which stood No. 7 on the list; for
he might be assured that it would not pass without much
discussion, if it passed at all.
Mr. HUDSON expressed his obligation to the Right
Hon. Gentleman opposite that he had withdrawn his
Bill. He was quite content to rest that Bill on the ob-
jections stated in the speech of the Hon. Gentleman.
They had availed themselves of all the forms of the
House in order to oppose it. He hoped the Government
would not ra,hlv interfere, but let well alone. He was
satisfied the Bin was totally impracticable, and a Bill
to which no one acquainted with railways would submit.
The old companies had to contend with great competi-
tion,—competition amounting to about 67,000,0001. out
of the 92,000,0001, passed in Railway Bills last year.
Mr. W. R. COLLETT said, if Irish railways did not
obtain the money which had been actually pledged them,
the greatest evils would certainly arise. A promise of
that money had been made this session, and he saw with
regret the postponement of the Bill for another session.
Lord J. RUSSELL said, with respect to the Railways
Bill, he was not disposed to say much after his Hon.
Friend had intimated that he would withdraw it. He
must say, however, that he did not assent to the terms
in which the Hon. Member for Sunderland had described
the effect ; for so far from being vexatious, the
very object of it was to remove all unne
cessary obstructions, and impediments, and interference,
with railways. He thought it better that a system of
railways should be established under the superintend-
ence of private companies, and not of a general direction.
—(Hear, hear.) But rules had been established for the
guidance of these companies, and it was of course de-
sirable that those rules should be developed and perfected
as far as possible. After that was done, he hoped there
would not be any necessity for any further interference
with our railway system. He trusted that by further
explanations between the managers of the leading rail-
way companies and the Government, the Bill that
might be brought in next year would meet with more
general support than the present measure. The Govern-
ment had understood that the principle of the Bill was
likely to be discussed at very great length on the second
reading, and that after that the 110 clauses of which it
consisted would be the subject of frequent amendments
and protracted discussions in Committee. Under those
circumstances it appeared to him that the better course
was that they should postpone the Bill till another ses-
sion. But his Right Hon. Friend felt very naturally
that as the Bill had been the subject of very exaggerated
misstatements in many pamphlets and other writings
circulated among the public, and calculated to alarm
railway shareholders, it was right that he should enter
into an explanation that might dispel unfounded mis-
apprehensions. He was ready to admit that the Go-
vernment had come to their determination upon the
subject rather late, and with some inconvenience to
themselves, because they were unable in consequence
of not having given the necessary notice, to pro-
ceed with any other business that evening. As
for what the Hon. Member for Bath had said about dis-
cussing certain measures, he must intimate his
positive dissent from his opinions. That Honour-
able Gentleman knew as well as he did
that it was not unusual to bring down measures to that
House which, after discussion, and the expression of a
general, though that might be an unfavourable opinion
of the House upon them, were then withdrawn.—(Hear.)
There was a subject upon which the Government could
form no calculation—what might be the length of an ad-
journed debate. Some of these debates, for which the
Government had calculated upon a single night, having
occupied three and four nights. Business, therefore,
which it was intended to have brought on in the mean.
time was thus necessarily postponed. The Learned
Member for Bath had asked whether it was the intention
of the Government to proceed with the Railways (Ire-
land) Bill. He asked that question after his Hon.
Friend had positively intimated his intention to bring
it on next Monday night. They would take it on that
day ; and, he should observe, that the Bill was one on
the general principle of which the House had already
pronounced a decision. His own opinion upon the
subject was this, that during the present year, having
had to do with a great calamity by the failure in two
articles which constituted the great portion of the
existing evil.
werei.
people's means of subsistence in Ireland. It was urgent
upon the Government to apply some immediate remedy
to the
than they l
prTephaeyrehdatdodeoxnpeetcht,aftowriftehw suc-
cessinstances
eance s
had come to his hearing of people dying from want of
the necessaries of life. The
imports of grain, too, from
foreign parts, had greatly exceeded what might at one
time have been expected, and indeed, up to the present
time, the success of the Government efforts had been
more availing than could have been anticipated. He might
say that the grand object of the Government had been,
after supplying the pressing necessities of the people, to
endeavour by proper measures to effect a grand and
permanent good by a total reform in the constitution of
Irish society. He believed that this Irish Railway
Bill as one of the means proper for that object would
be a desirable measure, end deserving of the considera-
tion and support of the House. The Government were
prepared to press forward this session the Railways
(Ireland) Bill.

Lord G. BENTINCK said that the Railways (Ireland)
Bill had his warm support. It did not go far enough, and
not include other railways which deserved the conside •
ration of the Government. When it was brought for-
ward again, he would bring before them the Great
West of Ireland Railway, which offered interest at
present to the amount of 15,0001. a week, and would,
in a few months, augment that amount to 52,0001.
He would have had the principle of the Bill
very much more extendei,• as the most proper and most
economical basis of relief to Ireland in her present dis-
tress. The Noble Lord took occasion to object to some
of the Bills on the papers of the House, especially the
Bill suspending the navigation-laws and the Bill sus-
pending the corn-laws.
Mr. CARDWELL did not wish to anticipate the
debate of next week, but he would just say one word to
the Hon. Gentleman opposite. He thought that one
great principle to be observed in legislation upon rail-
ways was to obtain the harmonious co-operation of the
Government with the proprietors of railways.—(Hear,
hear.) If Government determined to legislate on
the subject, they ought to proceed with earnestness.
He ventured, therefore, to suggest to the Right Hon.
Gentleman that if it were necessary to legislate against
these great companies, the Right Hon. Gentleman should
do so with energy, or else legislate in such a manner as
to carry their co-operation along with them.
The Corn Importation Bill was then read a third
time and passed. .

. --
The second reading of the Parliamentary Elections
(No. 2) Bill was postponed till Wednesday next.
The Print Works Bill was read a second time.

The Prisons Bill was rhen—read for the purpose of
being postponed.
The report of the Tithes Commutation Bill was then
brought up and received.
The Navigation Bill was then postponed until Friday.
The Fisheries' Piers and Harbours (Ireland) Bill was
read a second time.

The Shannon Navigation Bill was read a second time.
The Herring Fisheries (Scotland) Bill then passed
through Committee, and the report was ordered to be
brought up on Thursday.
On the motion that the Medical Registration Bill be
read a second time,
Mr. WAKLEY said that he should not press the Bill
this session of Parliament, as he understood that the
session would be shortly brought to a close. He would
withdraw it, but should he have a seat in the next Par-
liament he should press for the continuation of the Com-
mittee of inquiry.

The Bill was then withdrawn.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL then brought in a
Bill for th© further amendment of the law relating to
turnpike roads in South Wales.

The other orders of the day were then disposed of,
and the House adjourned at a quarter-past eight o'clock.

RAILWAY COMMITTEES.

HOUSE OF LORDS.—(YESTERDAY.)
Room B.

The Committee met this day at eleven o'clock, to con-
sider the Paisley and Renfrew, the Glasgow, Dumfries,
and Carlisle, and the Caledonian Canobie Branches;
the Marquis of Westmeath presided.
The first Bill taken was the Glasgow, Dumfries, and
Carlisle.

Mr. ANDREWS opened the case upon the part
of the promoters. Last year the Dumfries Bill
was obtained, the object of which was to furnish an eli-
gible connexion between Ayrshire and the Southern
part of Scotland. The Bill was, however, clogged, by a
clause inserted by the Caledonian Company, requiring
the present Company to lease a portion of their line,
between Annan and Springfield, provided statutory
powers were obtained. This clause was considered so in-
jurious that a Bill was brought in this year remedying
this defect, which, after great opposition in the Com-
mons, was passed, and was now brought up to the Lords.
The Learned Gentleman then proceeded to show the
injurious nature of the clause.
Mr. Alexander, the director of the company, was
examined at "great length, and fully bore out the state-
ment of Counsel.

Mr. Miller, the engineer, was also examined to the
same effect, and gave similar evidence.
The Committee then adjourned.

ROOM C.

LONDON AND NORTH-WESTERN (PORTO-
BELLO AND WOLVERTON BRANCH.)

The Committee met this day at eleven o'clock to con-
sider the case of the London and North-Western
Railway.
Mr. ANDREWS opened the case, and after a long state-
ment, in which he pointed out the advantages of this
line, examined several witnesses to support his statement.
The Committee then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
GROUP VI.

BRISTOL AND EXETER (TAUNTON AND

CASTLE CARY BRANCH).
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)

The Right Hon. H. Labouchere, M.P., gave evidence
in favour of this line.

„..- of
the day in hearing local evidence of a general nature in
support of the scheme.
The Committee adjourned till twelve to morrow.