The Sun.
London, England, 1841-08-28 00:00:00

cordial and earnest support. The lion. Member fu:
• Yorkshire had singled oat the foreign policy of the.G,;
vernment very infelicitously. It was to be lamented tha
he hadnaut made up hiAimuld before he came dchv'n t,
that lionse, and had found out. what was right and wire;
was wrone— One great distinction might be drawn be-
tween the !government of the Right Hon. Baronet and
that of Earl Grey. The latter had pledged his party to
peace, retrenchment, and reform; and he would say that;
notwithstiating the exception referred to by the Hon.
lietuber for Yorkshire, the peaCe of Europe had been
maintained by the present Government, in spite of the
greatot possible difficulties.—(Cheers.) With regard
to retNachment, much had been effected by the Whig
Government, although they had not dune so much as
was anticipated. The grounds, therefore, on which he
repoeed his steady confidence in her Majesty's Ministers,
was that they upheld the great principles which they had
put forth to the world. On the other side, he heard
of no principle or no measure propounded. lie
beard nothing to meet the exigeeeles of the
commerdul community, or the wants of a suffering peo-
ple. They have said that some time in the course of
mat year they will condescend to take into consideration
the state of trade and the suffering: of the people. But
if there was anything which could justify his confidence
in Anisters, and his want of confidence on the other
side, it was the course that had been taken in the pre-
sent debate. The Eight Hon. Gentleman opposite was
the Colleague of Mr. Iluskisson, who had extended the
markets of their industry, and had reduced their taxa-
tion to a certain extent, and if the Right lion. Baronet
were imbibed with his principles of free trade, surely,
after the discussions that had taken place upon the ques-
tions of timber, and corn, and sugar, it was. not too
much to expect that the Right Hon. Gentleman would
state what course he meant to take. It was not too
much to ask him to get up-in his place, did say to the
mole of England, whose commerce was now at a stand-
still, that at a future time he would endeavour to see
what relief could be extended to them, consistently with
the exigencies of the case, and the circumstances in
which the country was placed.
After a few observations from Mr. GOULBURN, in
explanation,
Captain POLHILL was astonished that so much time
had been taken up upon so simple a
.question as that
which was before the House, which was merely, had the
'House of Commons full confidence in her Majesty's Go-
vernment or not, or were they capable of carrying. on
the Government of the country with any advantage to
the people. They were not then discussing the corn,
the sugar, or the timber question ; it was simply confi-
dence or no confidence in a Ministry which had been
condemned by the late House of Commons. Many Hon.
Members had alluded to the tenacity to office shown by
he Right lion. Baronet the Member for Tamworth in
1835 ; but he was sure the Right lion. Baronet would
rather have cut off his, right band than have con-
tinued on the Treasury Bench after Parliament had
passed such a verdict as had been passed on the present
Uovernment by both Houses of the Legislature. The
practice pursued by the Government was directy at va-
riance with the doctrines upon the constitution laid down
by Lord John Russell in 1823. Holding these senti-
nn•nts, he would give his vote for the amendmen with
napch pleasure.
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL said that the debate was re-
markable only for the silence maintained by the Gentlemen
opposite upon the great questions which were raised in
the Speech from the Throne—questions upon which
the whole country was deeply excited, and full of
exrectation. Ho must say that he did think such a
profound . silence was neither just to the country or
respectful to her Maksty. Hon. Gentlemen grossly
deceived themselves if they imagined that, because they
chose to pass over in utter silence the great question
laid before the House by her Majesty, it would lay
dormant in the public mind. No, the people would think
deeply, and with a sense of burning indignation at the
policy of the iecc;ming Government keeping in such
profound darkness. Tile people would think the more
of these questions because they were passed over in
silence new. In his opinion the Corn question now
stood in much the same situation as the Catholic ques-
tion did in 1828, and the celebrated letter of the Duke
of Wellington to Dr. Curtis in that year, with the substi-
tution of corn for Catholic, would be quite in accord-
ance with the times. It gave rise to hope, when it was
recollected that that letter was followed, in 1829, by
concessions—concessions which were made in considera-
tion of the perilous natnre of the period, and not to
reason or justice ; and he would not much wonder if the
distress and privation now existing, without any hope of
alleviation, might, during the ensuing winter, produce
dangers so threatening as would force Hon. Gentlemen
opposite to abandon the sliding scale, to which they
were no more bound than they were to Protestant as-
cendancy in 1823.—(11ear.) One word with respect to
behind. Last evening he was astonished to hear the
shut which was set up by lien. Gentlemen when his
Hon. Friend the Member fur Meath alluded to intimida-
tion as practised at the Irish elections. But in what way
did they receive the allusion to the conduct of the late
high sheriff of Fermanagh? It was received with a titter, •
and the great oracle of the party opposite, found much
fault with Earl Fortescue for dismissing him from the
situation he had polluted. The writers in that paper
thought lightly-of a man who had merely, as they said,
stitched the return with orange ribbon instead of a bit of
red tape. He w6uld venture to say that not one mom-
her for an English University—not even one of the mem-
bers of the Irish University—not one member of the
Otiarch of England in that House, would say that the seal
used upon the occasion was not a sort of blasphemy.—
(Cheers from the Tory benches.), lie was glad to hear
that cheer • it showed that good feeling was not en-
tirely banished from the bieastS of Iron. Gentlemen op-
posite ; but still, because Lord Fortescue had justly
punished a man who had so misconducted himself; that
punishment was to form one of the ingredients towards
a vote of want of confidence. Coming events cast their
shadows before. 11e:had been deeply hurt to see a most
obnoxious_practice revived on the North Eastern Cir-
cuit. On a late trial in Armagh, • every Roman Catho-
lic who was called upon tho Jury was set aside by the
Crown Solicitor. He was afraid that practice would be
followed throughout the country,' and if so, it would
greatly add to the anticipated difficulties of the Right
lion. Baronet. He would tell him that if Ireland was
his difficulty in 1835, he would find that -that difficulty
was not lessened now. The course taken since that pe-
riod by some who would form part of his Administra-
tion had not much conciliated the good-will of the people
of Ireland. He did not know what situation the
Nide Lord the Member for Lancashire would
filie till he hoped was that he would have nothing to do
with Ireland.—(A laugh.) An excess of caution was
often dangerous and might be so on the present occa-
sion. With the liistress now prevailing in England, and
the position of affairs abroad, he could see nu reason
why the people should place confidence either in the
ability or the disposition of Hon. Gentlemen opposite
to recover. the country from temporary distress, or
guide it through its difficulties. Ile, at all events, had
none.

Mr. CHRISTMAS would not have thought it neces-
sary to address the House but for tho observations that
had fallen from the Hon. Member fur Limerick, in re
ference to the election for the city he now represented.
He had said that. Menibers had been robbed of their
seats in Waterford in consequence of the system of re-
gistration that existed there. . Now he (Mr. Christmas)
contended that he had no right to make such an asser-
tion until the return of that election was brought under
the consideration of the House.. The Hon. Member had
ascribed all this to the defective state of the registra-
tion. If that was so, he (Mr. Christmas) would ask
whose fault that was ?—(Cries of •' Bear, hear.") Was
it not that of the Honourable Members 'on the
other side of the House—(Hear)—for when the Noble
Lord the Member fot: North Lancashire proposed a
remedy, it met with the most strenuous opposttion of the
other side of the Ilouse.—(Hear.) He thought the pre-
sent question was one of confidence between one side of
the Howe and the other. His own Opinion was that the
Present Alinisters were not entitled to the confidence of
the nouse in, consequence of their vacillating policy.—
(Hear.) He believed that the insurrection of Canada
had arisen in consequence of the conduct of some of the
late Members oldie ifouse and that of the Government.
--(hear.)- .He thought a very one-sided view of the
(petition involvedin the present debate had been taken
the House. He knew something of
by the other side of
. repeal of those
the Corn-laws, and he knew also that the re
laws was unpopular in. Ireland.—(Cnes of Hear,' and
" Oh, eh.") lie would support the amendm._lnt of the
Hult4Jitsunser liar Yorkshire, although in doing so he
should- he assisting to place the Right Hon. Baronet in a
tointion of difficulty, though one of honour.—(llear.)
Mr. C. P. VilitlEßS then rose. When the Hon.
Gentleman who had spoke last thought proper to re_
the Right lion. Baronet of" thedifliculties' he was about
tu encounter in taitliog- office, and when he thought.
penper to remind hint that he . had to discuss both sides
tof the question, lie did not prescribe the means
of ex-
tricating hietselt front the ditliettlties in which most (
the Hon. Members ea the other side had been n placeti
)
.
namely that of preserving place.—(]pear, hear.,
fie (Mr. Villiers) havinj had Koceasion to address that
Iloase, skid to adtLess himself to the subjects that had
betel reeunenentled for the consideration of Parliament
in the Speech from the Throne on several occasions, he
al certainlyl3. looked shunt and listened with great
anxiety for any reason that would cave hint the trouble
epeating these arguannts. He had, therefore, given
rota atteation to those gentlemen who hailspoken on
a (Aker aide, in order to find out, if possible,
stbst it was they intended to convey to
the Howe, but he must confess. that he had been un-
alsle to effect that object. Ile had listened to his Hon.
Frivnd the AffEuber flu. Winchester, who wondered how
gni person dared to speak on the subject—(Hear)—and
w3ll deference to his Hen. and Learned Friend, whose
skill its confusqtg a Jury he had often great pleasure in
wioessing—(Lauzhter)—he thought he had not less
skill in confusing the present question. For his own
sattiA he could not understand Linn.—(hear, hear.) Nor
want he more successful in discovering the meaning. of
the lecture which had been read to them by the Hon.
Member An. Pomfret.—(Laughter.) He had stated
that thoso who sat on that side of the House had no
legitimate position in the discussion, and that anything
they stated was impertinent.—(Hear.) Neither did he
t Mr. Villiers) apprehend anything that had fallen from
the lion. Member for Bedford or the Ikon Member who
had just sat down.—(Langhter.) He could not help
thinking that those Gentlemen who had talked of their
consistency, and had given circulation to every fallacy,
ontl misrepresented the opinions of their opponents, and
the objacis of their policy having been successful in the
ezurse ao pursued, were somewhat ashamed of the means
by which they had obtained their scoots, and when they
cense flow is face with those whose policy and principles
they hail assailed, they thought it wise and prudent to
mountain a dead silence. There was also some discretion, • which was pretty obvious to the world, in not commiting themselves to their opinions, because that discretion had
not been observed elsewhere.—(Hear, hear.) Those
were some of the reagons that accounted for the silence
that had been observed, added to which it appeared to
bum that it bad been found by some parties inconvenient •

es repeat the opinions they had before expressed. Ik that what did he do? He then expouned hit principles, and
eould not .have .proposed to himself a duty, or rather vindicated himself from being a wild theorist. He read a pe-
:Live a {duty tition, presented from the merchants of London, and read one
.
imposed: upon him meet: agreealge, of
vi:issageastosagperowsae,,,that his opinions were identified with theirs
`iiiting every opportunity of discussing matter rilatire
" Freedom froni restraint is calculated to
o the Corn-laws. He should not be a party to that want g
lye eix)tension to trade, and the best direction of the capital
)1 respect to the Speech delivered from the Throne.
and industry of tile country that of a number of protective
Concurring us he did entirely in the principlea; upem duties. It znightbe proved that while all operated as a tax on
which the financial arrangements of the year bad been the community, few operated en behalf of the elassesfrom whom
proposed, and believing that those principles, if awned they were instituted, and none to the extent of the loss oeca-
.eut further, would be attended with success, he Should sinned to other classes—( Hear, hear)--that in thus declaring
resist by every means in his power the opposite policy their opinion of the restrictive system, they had in view only
represented by that amendment. They c„ old not shut those parts not connected with the public revenue, for so long
their eyes to the opinions of the Hon. Membee who as the public necessity existed, they could not expect so im-
snored the amendment, as he had recently
expressed portant a branch to be given up, bat it was against all protec-
:hem in an important district. It was not any 1-aguelion not essential for our revenue they offered the petition which
ply mittd to )
language about free trade, that would qualify his
fro ‘yv he res ectful
(Mr. Villisub ers) wi,e P hed to callli ament
the attention ohe ersf
the
opinion on that. He thought 'that the Honour- Noble Lord, the disciple of Mr. llnskisson, to what he said on
able .Mt mber for Yorkshire had been well put the subject of taxation. He said on the principle of the
fierward to represent his party,—(Hear, hear.) He petition, he and the Government with which he acted, had
considered the amendment had placed at issue in that proposed their recent measures. " But" I say," said he, "as
House those matters which were in dispute in the coun- [ always have said, that those who, either by theirseeeehes
try, and which the -House was called together to de- in Parliament, or the exertions of their talents out of it, have
ride.—(llear, hear.) 'flits time had come that lie had contributed to bring the people of England to look with art eye
long foreseen, when the principle upon which the trade of favour to the principles in the petition, have done them-
selves the greatest honor and the cauntry especial benefit."—
and taxation of the country was carried on absorbed the
public mind. The cause was now rip
on the one e for hearing; the
side
the tar- (Cheers.) That was Mr. If u‘kisson's opinion of that petition,
tics were ascertained ; there was
and he (Mr. V.) said that he had a right to identify him with
h
teinciplein that etition, and his opini therere were
whole community, and on the other the agriculturist and
against all protectingp duties.—( Hear, hear.) ons
There was no
the arietocrassy.—(llear, hear.) The plea was vested sense in comparing protection with prohibition. It might be
iaterest.s, and the answer to that plea was vested limited, but still prohibition was one thing and protection
rubbery.—(hear, hear, hear.) He was satisfied another.—: Hear, hear ) But protection was lenity in princi-
that the country at large would view with impatience the ,le—(Cheers)—and he said that it would be sound pe-
attempt made to divert the House from this subject fur lici to abolish all restrictions not essential for revenue.
the more vulgar topics of party.--(Hear, hear.) He be- (Cheers.) He was afraid he was apt. to dwell on this
!suebje,aevteatttooo great length but lie wished to justify the support
boasted might bc traced to one section of the popular
:ieved that the great majority of which the other side
the Noble Lord' (Lord John Russell), and which,
h I?
party having used them to chastise the other.—( Hear until he heard an exposition of his policy from the Right Hon.
,
Baronet (Sir Robert. Peel) :he must withhold from him.
hear.) They did not tell the Government they had been He did not despair of the progress of his opinions.—( Hear,
too democratic. ; but they said you have broken your hear.) Hardly a day passed in which he did nut hear
promises and forfeited your pledges.—(Hear, hear.) of fresh converts, while he never heard of one who had been
That was what the Hon. Member for Yorkshire bad convinced changingliis opinions. He did not in tit least re-
said. He said the Government had not kept their pro- gret the change in the Government that was about to take
miscs. With whom, he would ask ? Why, the people. place, for lie believed it would be highly important to this
He was disposed to agree with what the Hon. and Learned change of policy—that it was absolutely necessary for
Member fur Bath had said, that he thought the Govern- the ultimate success of those measures. He knew
ment had shrunk from those principles which placed
that the Right Hon. Baronet's only chance of retaining power
was 'his converting the community
.—(Cheers.) He was happy
them in power ; but, at the same time, he could not
to observe, hihling, as he did, of the dissolution, the
condemn them to the extent that some did. There were g y approvattention that had been drawn to the subject. He was grati-
•two things that had been a source of weakness on the fled with the result—(Opposition cheers)—he really was. He
part of the Government. He alluded to their policy had not come there to serve a party object. It was the inte-
with respect to Ireland, and their advocacy of the rest he took in politics, and his wish to serve those who see
New Poor-law Bill.—(Hear, hear.) He thought that the him there, that actuated him in what he did ; and looking
prejudices of the country against Ireland had been greatly ex- at the progress which the question had made, he really was
aggerated, but it was impossible to deny that there was great satisfied.—(Hear.) It was only by constant discussion they
prejudice against it. He trusted it was diminishing every day. could advance their principles, and he was ready to act, as the
—( Hear, hear.) He had uo doubt that many had stated that Right Hon. Member for Renfrewshire haul said, and to work
they viewed the Noble Lord the Member for North Lance- day and night to elicit all the facts that bore upon the
shire coming into power with joy because they believed he would question. He could nut sit down without first drawing
put dowe the Irish.—(Crier of " Hear, hear."). With the attention of the House and the country to the
respect .to the New Poor-law, nobody could deny that extreme responsibility which would attach to thh
the Government were indebted for much of their unpopularity Right Hon. Member for Tamworth, supposing him to be
to their advocacy of that measure. He might say that they called upon to form a new Government. He %mild have
could have no purpose to serve in supporting that law if they power to do what he thought proper. Ile (Mr. V.) believed
did not think it an improvement of the old one. He himself from his moral influence with his party, he would be able to
thought the New Poer-law an improvement. He thought convert them to his own opinions if he should change them on
there was one cause of the unpopularity of the Government our commercial policy, and he believed he would have power
which he ought to notice, because he felt the truth of what had in both branches of the Legislature to carry out what he might'
been remarked as to the measures which they lately proposed propose. Therefore, whatever advantage might follow from
having suffered from their unpopularity. He believed that maintaining the present system or from changing it, on him
the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies had been rather would be the entire responsibility or credit. If the
incautions in an expression which he permitted himself to use people went on in their present miserable condition—
relative to the Reform Bill. He (Mr. V.) always thought that if commerce languished—if our foreign trade was checked
more had been made of that expression than there was any occa- and impeded—he said the whole and entire responsibility would
sine for. All the construction that,he (Mr. V. )put upon it was, attach to the Right Hon. Baronet. He believed it would be
that the Noble Lord, somewhat tempted by the confusion which in his (Sir Robert Peel's) power to change the whole system ;
he and his colleagues caused in bringing about that measure but if he had determined to maintain the presesent system, he
to allay the ferment that resulted, was disposed to be unneces- ought to assign some reason why it should not be changed.—
sarily cautious in working out those principles which he said (Cheers.)
they recognised. But he (Mr. Villiers) never believed that Lord F. EGERTON said he could assure the House that
the Noble Lord would say that that measure, which was pro- whatever might be the opinions of other Members on his side
posed by the Noble Lord himself, whereby the people were to of the House as to the course the debate ought toj take,
be represented freely and fully in that House, should cease. he had not presumed to object to the proceedings of any Gen-
He could not suppose that the Noble Lord ever considered tleman of the other side who had chosen to consider it his duty
that the Reform Bill was to be a final measure. He believed to enter upon the consideration of the subjects which were in
that all the Noble Lord meant was Itat reform should be his opinion not the immediate subject of debate before the
worked oat cautiously and by degrees. That, however, was House. He had listened with deep and painful attention to
one great cause of the unpopularity of the Government. the speeches of those gentlemen immediately connected with
There was a disposition to condemn the Noble Lord, on ac- the districts in which so much distress prevailed, and which he
count of the manner in which he had taken up those mea- had witnessed, and if he did not enter into the discussions as to
sures letely propounded by Ministers. The Noble Lord in his the cause of those evils and of their immediate remedy, he
(Mr. Villiers's) belief acted in that manner—in every thing trusted it would not be supposed those great and important
lie had said or done, on the subject of the alteration in the Corn- questions were not fit subjects for the early consideration of the
laws—from an honest conviction of the necessity of the change. House. He was of opinion that in the present state of the civi-
He (Mr. Villiers) could not give his support to the present lized world, not only in that House but in oirery deliberative assem-
opposition party, because he could not conceal from himself bly, the intelligence and acuteness of statesmen and men of learn-
that they were coming into power in direct opposition to the ing should be paramountly called to the consideration of the
principles of commercial freedom and free trade. He believed great problem, which certainly pressed the more society
that the present miserable exhibition which the country pre- advanced, namely, how by human means they could at once
sented of commerce paralysed, capital unemployed, and the increase and distribute the produce of the earth, so as to
people in the lowest state of wretched degradation, was to be meet the exigencies and peculiar circumstances, especially of a
traced to the system of restriction. He would call the atten- country which possessed a large manufacturing population.—
tion of the House to the present distressed state of the people. ( Hear, hear.) To this subject far be it from him, even on
It was not isolated cases—it was'anot individual cases of distress, that occasion, to object ; but he must fairly say, that he did
which the Right Hon. Baronet pointed to as not leading to not think its discussion, on such an occasion as the present,
any just conclusion, that he would call attention to. The evi- when the Government of the country was in so anomalous and
dente which he held in his hand was evidence of distress in singular a condition, would tend to promote their object.--
every department of trade. There seemed to be a disposition (Cheers.) He could assure the House that he would not pro-
not to receive favourably anything stated by the Dissenting reed to the consideration of that which he considered to be
Clergy assembled at Manchester, but, as the Hen. Member for the question before the House, in any tone of offensive
Stockport had stated, they were delegated by congregations who triumph or recrimination. He considered that he should only
were suffering, and who directed them to proceed to a spot perform his duty to those constituents who sent him :there,
where the subject was likely to excite attention. In the docu- and consult their feelings and wishes, in giving his support to
ment which he held in his hand, the names of tile persons and the amendment proposed to the Address. He was aware that
places were given, and it was quite competent for any person objections had been made to the course adopted, and
that it
to satisfy himself of the truth and correctness of the statement. had been said by the Hon. Members for Leeds
Every department of manufacture was included in the docu- and Finsbury, that they had been guilty of disrespect
ment drawn up by the meeting at Manchester. Mining, hard- to her Majesty in adopting it. But on former occasions he had
ware, earthenware, hosiery; the silk, woollen, and cotton trade; heard long discussions on the Address when he sat on the other
glove-making, agriculture, &c. He had selected the cotton side of the House, and when Hon. Gentlemen opposite who
trade from which to give a specimen of the suffering state of then sat on his side claimed the privilege of dealing with his
the people. It was in the year 1837, when the price of food Majesty's speech as the speech of his Majesty's Ministers. It
began to rise, and in that year 1,911 persons had received me- was only as such it could be dealt with.—(Cheers.) But the
dieal relief from the dispensary of the district; and in 1840 President of the Board of Trade had objected to the course
that number had increased to 3,072. That was in the district pursued in moving a vote of want of confidence, and had said
of Preston. In the same district the number of deaths that they should in the first instance explain all they meant to
in 1838 amounted to 1,209 ; in 1839 to 1,277 ; and in 1840 to do, supposing they came into power. In his (Lord F. E.'s)
1739, which showed an increase in the number-of deaths in opinion, his Right Hon. Friend had acted wisely in not enter-
that particular branch of trade of 462... The clerk of the union, ins upon such an explanation. The Chancellor of the Exchequer
when applied to for the cause of that increase, stated that it said they were about to perform the play of Hamlet, omitting
was in a great measure owing to an insufficiency of food. In the principle character. But he told the Chancellor of the
consequence of the high price of food they were exposed to Exchequer that they did not wish to perform the play at all
great privations, which they bore with the greatest patience. until they had got a company properly arranged.—( Cheers. )
1 The report also stated. that the greatest indifference was felt He did know how anybody knew that his Right Hon. Friend
towards any constitutional efforts to obtain relief, such as pre was to address the House as a Minister of the Crown. How
senting petitions to that House. A similar state •f things did they know it ? If they knew it, it would be because for
existed in Leeds, Coventry, Macclesfield, Nottingham, Shef- ten years past every question that came before the House had
field, Tewkesbury, Liverpool, Bridport, &e. That state of been so ably dealt with by the Right Hon. Baronet--nihi/
things was naturally owing to the restrictions which were legebatquod non excerperet--(Hear)—and consequently the opi-
placed on their intercourse with other countries—restrictions nion prevailed thati' Ministers resigned, his Right Honourable
which prevented their exchanging what they were able to pro- Friend would be at the head of their 'successors. If he.
duce for the food which could be received from those countries. might presume to advise a contingent minute of the Crown ;
Ho believed, if these restrictions were removed, the distress and, if his Right Hon. Friend would take his advice, it would
complained of would cease. He was sorry to find that the be to avoid any intimation of the speech he was about to make,
Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, and the which he thought would be unwise and inexpedient.—(Hear,
Noble Lord, the Member for North Lancashire, had laboured hear.) M. ish respect to the grounds on which the House and
to justify those who maintained that cause of distress. He had the country had withdrawn its confidence from the Ministry,
been led to expect, from what the Right Hon. Baronet did in he thought that if the Chancellor of the Exchequer was not
that House, that when he had the power, he would use that satisfied with the five nights' discussion which had taken place,
power over his party to cause them to change their opinions. he must be a very difficult Chancellor of the Exchequer to
The Right Hon. Baronet was now on the eve of coming into satisfy.—(Cheers.) He did not believe the events that had
power, and in his speech at Tamworth, on the occasion of the occurred, since the House.came tb a vote of no confidence,
late elections, lie laboured with ingenuity and talent to show had at all improved the condition of the Government.
that there were other causes of distress than those which The Hon. Member for Finsbury had made, as he (Sir F.
were really so. The Right Hon. Baronet seemed to say that Egerton) could not help thinking, an unfair allusion to the
the Corn-laws were founded upon vital principles of corn- Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, in 1835.
merce ; yet he could not deny the derangement they caused Now, in his (Sir F. Egerton's) opinion, the failure of the
in the currency, and the export of bullion from the country Right Hon. Baronet upon that occasion was equivalent to
which they occasioned. When the Right Hoh. Baronet said the success of others under similar circumstances. And as it
that the ' Corn-laws caused no harm, he told them had been said of the Emperor Napoleon, that his career, when
that bullion might go out of the country that dictating to kingdoms, redounded loss to his glory than his
credit might be contracted—the Bank distressed—every m ans conduct during that last and disastrous campaign in which he
of obtaining comfort destroyed—yet that no evil should result. vainly contended against Europe in arms; so wss there nothing
It was calculated that there was one million employed in agri- in the career of the Right Hon. Baronet which reflected
culture, and that ehch family received about 301. a year ; and if upon him more credit than his conduct during his unsuccessful
that calculatitin was correct, there were 30,000,0001. to be ex- Administration in 1835.—( Opposition Cheers.) He(LordF.E.)
',ended in some way or other. When wheat was 575. per doubted, however, whether posteriteewould pronounce the same
quarter, at an average rate, the people were obliged to spend verdict upon the present proceedings of the Noble Lord, the
7s. 6d. rer week upon breast. Now, when the average price of leader of that House. For his part, he could riot but think
wheat was 70s. per quarter, what could be left to men who that the conduct of the Noble Lord in dissolving the last Par-
earned but 10s. per week, and were obliged to spend 7s. 6d. liament was either a miscalculation or a fault. He thought
ant of that sum for bread? In Leicester and other places, that that course was sufficient to justify the want of confidence
where the people were supported. by producing things from of the country in the judgment, if net in the principle, of the
the agricultural labourers, there was now no demand for Noble Lord.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord no doubt had
labour, and in consequence 14,000 persons, who were thrown been anxious to weed the manufacturing districts of some °b-
out of employment, were dependent for support on the parish noxious plants. But the Noble Lord was not probably aware
of Leicester.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He (Mr. Villiers) that in that operation he might mow down some of the flowers
complained of the Right Hon. Baronet, and he complained of his own flock. The people of England had thought in some
much more of the Noble Lord the Member for North Lan- cases t hat neither wealth nor accomplishment, nor spotless private
cashire ; for lie observed that the Light Hon Baronet had character, nor unimpeachable public integrity could atone for
made something like an admission that the Corn-laws were not a warm adherence to the opinions, and a constant participation
good. 'Ho confined himself to 'showing to those whom he ad- in the measures of the Noble Lord. In one instance, at least,
dressed that the Corn 'laws did not produce any distress; but which he could name, the claims of high rank arid wealth, and
the Noble Lord, in the speech which he addressed to the the still higher claims of unsullied character and virtue, had
people of Lancashire, laboured to show that the high price of failed to receive the suffrages of a great constituency.—(Hear,
provisions was an advantage. He (Mr. Villiers) could not hear.) But that Noble Lord, he should add, had yielded to
believe that a man of any mind could honestly believe that, his fall with a grace and dignity which extorted the applause of
What ! was a man to go and tell the poor man that the less his very enemies, and by the touching eloquence of his parting
foie' there was in the country the better it would be for him— accents had diminished that shout of triuinph which might be
( [leas)—that the more scarce provisions were the more the natural in the hour of victory, over an ordinary or a vulgar
Poor man would get —( Hear.) Why, there was nothing in foe.—((;beers.) What conclusion could he draw from cases
viicheraft, nothing in tire whole history of delusion, equal such as this? His conclusion was, that if he concurred with his
to that. They knew how it was that that delusion was lion. Friend in the amendment he had moved to the Address
attended with success. It was effected by a use of terms. They he would be only doing that which would meet the commands,
told the people that wages- would fall, and when the people and he would add the wishes of tho e who had sent him to that
turoaudeldrs,
ruoifn
-learned that, they knew that their condition would be worse. House—who had sent him there strong, not in his own strength,
They told those poor cople it was the cruelty of those free but in the ar approbation of the public The victory he heel
.thus advocates .of heartless doctrines, that obtained was nof)t, ho was aware, attributable,. to any merit of
who would lower their wages, his own in triumphing over an agitation, which was not
4:1,1,.1wi hotbewyanwteet'irnito' transfer them from the
occupatiseis to always moderatein itetoueor very scrupulous in its statementsof
hied, to those of which they were facts. In his success he felt no undue feeling of triumph,
ignorant. That was what the Noble Lord endeavoured to im- and he alluded to it wily because it afforded an instance o!
press on the I, minds. The Noble Lord ale, expres,ed what he considered the state of public opinion in the country
one of these fillati • i • ' .
e' W lath was used durine the war to enable upon the subject then l•efore the. licuse.—( Cheers.)
the peoPl' td bear taxation and that was, !hat if the landlord Mr. O'CONNELL ruse and said, that the Noble Lord who
received high runts, it woujd ,
geve them the means of employing had just sat down had distinctly stated that it was beyond
more labourers. 'Chat was the old doctrine. Itwas first started, all controversy that deep distiess prevailed among the maim.
he believed, by Mr. Vunsittart. The Noble Lord contended f eau 'ng commuility (Hear, bear.) Whether the pleasant-
that the higher the rents were the more would landlords be ri : "inch the Noble Lord mixed' up with his refusalr to
enabled tc employ a greater slumber of grooms and gardeners di'Sesuwss the questions cutieected with that distress,
P e,_
__i ,e , and it the Corn-laws were were well placed, it was not for him (Mr. 0. Connell)
to lay cut their Insure-grounds • .
repeated the lanw°l7 1.""M ° obliged. to reduce their ere wee
decide. The subject itself was one of the deepest:importance,
pentes, and consequently they should
viras 'inPloy a less number of and be claimed that deference for his own opinions upon the
d nU those.. persons to
',shearers on their estates. not, he (Mr. V.) would ask, subject of the Cora-laws that he stood there as the ltepre-
.,
the condition of the poor weavers, an
to be at all considered') tentative of two of the largest agricultural constituencies in
whom he referred, were they not the country.—(hear.) He stood before them as the Repro-
chhioiutunylt,ati
onnlobythe
ciololsgensem,?.
je.caeDobsiorolwft
support
pore notr
wt a
sit . forma
waso e up:no,
ur‘
nt itoina.i.rotfoutall:oe,nskeco:nrimeH:o?-
at.nndb nE.e:,hpeelserYsi trnal:tt:i' Yu.: li:et:lnc sentative of snore than one million of the inhabitants of Ire-
land. Two constituencies had returned him to that House
without canvas or solicitation—without his personal presence,
for the gardeners and
that
ant ey or without his having asked for a single vote, though at the
be more ex licit
runordte' cite ,
_Cut. )—aaid to die same time they were well aware of his opinions tin the subject
Beetle, the Noble Lordgosfrrpo
incaid by the principle
of the Corn laws It was not his habit to conceal his opinions
and no opinion of. his was better known in the counties which
t.,,ithneerliy i
leenl objectednce tom thethe cpooulni
etyrejo.obpsofsuertei , hwehtaotokh pe.omweer, end
• pre represented than that he was totally opposed to the present
• - aw. On their testimony he would meet the statement
those principles—(Hear, hear)—becausie he
intolhdis theifin
of the lion. Member who sits for Waterford. It had been clearly
he was a disciple of Mr. Huskisson, and was coti i der,
and, as his lion. Friend had said, he came forward
tdeal " ""r• proved that the Irish people set no value upon the supposed benefit
fluskiss..on's mantle.—( Ilear, hear.) A
great
nutw"said elf the Corn-laws to agriculture. Indeed Ireland afforded an
about Mr. Iluskisson ; and he (Mr. Villiers) ' mean. to illustretion of the fallacy of some of the topics argued in sup-
port of those laws It had been said that the Corn-laws in-
say that ..Ir. Huskisson was not obliged to squire hisoi,inis
by the scale of his party ; but he (Mr. Villiers) contended
creased the rate of wages, but if they could produce that effect
that the current of his opinions was opposed to the principlef anywhere, it would surely have been in Ireland.—(Hear.)
of protection, and in favour of free What, however, had been the case ? Welancl had the full
trade.—(Cries
too
" Hear, hear.") He (Mr. Villiers) did not mean benefit of those laws, and yet her people hid the lowest rate
say, that after he had propounded those principles? he of wages known in any part of the globe.—( Hear, hear.) Ire-
had not sanctioned opposite principles ; but if they quoted Mr. land was purely an agricultural country, for England had taken
Huskisson, they should state what his real opinions were. If care that she should not be a manufacturing country. The
they would look to his speeches in mese, or to his last speech Corn-laws, failed in producing prosperity in Ireland. For his
in the House on the state of the nation, they would find that part he could not but consider it as a robbery of the operative
they had no business to quote those opinions which he had sup" in order to insure high price to the landlord.—( Hear, hear.)
ported when in the Government.
The law was merely an impost upon the bread of the
Sir R. PEEL—Look to his speeches in 1827 and 1828. poor ; far, if it had not raised the price of bread
Mr. VILLIERS euntinued.—He (Mr. Villiers) had said, it would never have received their support. It was said that
that when called upon to state what Mr. Huskisson's opinions , the problem Was a difficult one of determining the mode of
were, and what he thought the country should act on, those relieving the distresse.s of the working-classes. But in Iss opinion
cpinions should be ascertained. They knew he was charged
nothing was clearer than that an increase in the quantity would be,
in that House, in a most violent speech, by a Gen- a true mode of alleviating that distress. They refused, however
price, while they came forward with dolo-
tleman who sat on the Libreral side, in much the same to allow cheapness of
manner as the Noble Lord had been charged. He was charged rams laintogettion upon the sufferings of the people. The people
would laugh at the mockery of such protestations. They asked
as one altogether regardless of the rest of the world, and on
• • - - - -

• ,

need not, for they would find enough of the came description
in the same distriet.—( Cheers. ) Would they venture to re-
new the packing of Jetries ? He was sorry to hear an instanee
that lately occurred in Ireland of Jury-packing. It was a fatal
precedent, which would be caught at as an excuse by the party
opposite. He was sincerely sorry for this, as it would afford
an opportunity of again insulting a people whom they had so
long slighted, and of making their religion a subject of paltry
exclusion.--( Hear, hear.) They may take every method to
silence her, and when they have sign .ed her, they may imagine
they have tranquillized her. Mistake him not. There was but one
safety-valve for them, and that was to allow her grievances
and her voice expression.—( Cheers.) Yes, it was the con-
trast between England and Ireland which returned them there.
They were triumphant, their majority was owing to that cause,
and how long they may retain their majority it was not for him
to say. But there were many gloomy 'prospects before them at
home and abroad. They had a vast and starving popula'ion—
they had desolation in the manufacturing districts, and the very
air of their city was frightful.—(Cheers.) Commerce was
languishing, and the nations of Europe, seeing the transition
that was taking place, would judge between the fiends of
freedom and those who were opposed to all liberty and
improvemenl.—(Clicers ) Would they behold that state of
things which had been spoken of by the lion. Member for
Waterford—he hoped not prophetically—that all nations de-
pending on commerce for their prosperity fell sooner or later
into decay and dissolu'ion ? Should that befal them their fall
would indeed be a great one ; but it should at least
be recollected, what was true of all times, that
the higher any nation rose the more enemies it made.
And England had many enemies, who were anxiously wishing
for her downfal. Power was, in its nature, unpopular. It was
impthsible for power to sati,fv the expectations of every body,
and they would not be long in power when they would be sub-
jected to the same criticism they so unsparingly lavished on
others.—( Cheers.) Their all mice with the Chartists would
soon be at an encl.—(Oh, oh, and loud cheers.) Any thing
rather than Whiggery, said the Learned Member for Win-
chester. Was not that a Chartist cry? —( Loud cheers ) They
were instrumental in bringing in the Tories. Their cry was,
" !if we bring the Tories once into power, they will
multiply the Chartists over the Ind."—(Laughter and cheers. )
But was there not.a substantial grievance on the part of the
people of England:—( Loud cheers.) Was there not an aris •
tocratic master class, and was there not an immense majority
in the situation of a slave class ?—( Cheers.) Were there not
25 per cent. only who hack tho franchise in Englond, and 75
per cent. who were excluded?—( Ilear.) Were they not aware
of the injustice of that ? Were they not aware the people
ascribed their misery to their position. It may be that post
hoc was not proptu hoe, but in this case it was the duty of a
philosophic statesman to look upon it and legislate for it as
for cause and effect.—(Cheers.) • They tell you their misery
arises from 'the want of sufficient and cheap food.—( Hear,
hear.) These causes are broadly stated by them-as the soerees
of their wretchedness. Those who were anxious for the
Reform Bill, and who complained of its failure, felt the cause
of that failure was owing to its limited extent, and that the
features which were good in it were not sufficient to make cor-
ruption unavailing.—(Cheers.) He knew the Ballot was re-
fused, which would have prevented bribery and intimidation,
whatever good beside it may have effected.—( Hear; hear.)
Blame the Ministry for the state of the finances if they would.
He admitted they were entangled and in a state of great dis-
tress. They' proposed a plan which was not accepted, but what
will yon do 2—( Hear, hear.) What is year remedy ? More
taxes: He could not wish for evil that good might come of it, but
if he did he would wish for more taxes.—(Cheers.) There
was one thing, beyond all question, that never did any party
come into power under greater difficulties.—( Hear, hear.)
Surrounded with more dangers than almost any Ministry, they
had little of the mens divinior to extricate themselves from
their difficulties.—(Cheers.) And he would conclude by say-
ing that if misfortune accompanied that Ministry, men's in-
firmities afforded a good opportunity for redress, and they
weul.l be compelled sooner or later to do justice to Ireland.
Sir R. PEEL rese and said—Sir, if I felt more acutely than
in fast I do, either for myself or for the party with which I am
connected, the weight of the censure and vituperation of the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman, 4 still could find some source of
consolation, for whatever may be his abuse of the Tory
party !raw, it falls infinitely short of that which lie
has lavished on his beloved Whigs.—(Loud cheering.) The
Honourable and Learned Gentleman has, in point of fact,
reduced himself to that position in which his praise and cen-
sure are of equal value.—(Continued cheers.) If these are
the men who had so governed Ireland, who for ten years had
given it that great peace and happiness of which you speak,
what could have justified you in abusing them, in calling them
the base, the bloody, and the brutal Whigs?"--(Great cheer-
ing.) When you seek to account for the cause of the difficulty
and embarrassments which they have experienced, let me ask
you if you do not bear in mind that there is not one dis-
tinguished man of that party, who has not had the honour
of your vituperation.—(Loud cheers.) For ten years
you say they have governed Ireland, and preserved tranquil-
lity, security, and order. During four years of that period
my Noble Friend was the Secretary for Ireland.—(Loud
cheers.) For four out of those ten years that man, whose ad-
vent to power' you now deprecate, was the immediate agent of
the Whig Administration.—(Loud cheers.) I ask you, is it
the fact that these men have so well deserved of Ireland, and
if it is, what could be your motives and objects in increasing
their difficulties and embarrassments in the Government of
that country, in trying to create a prejudice against them in
Ireland, by the use of every calumnious expression which an
imagination, fertile in calumny, could devise ?—( Loud Tory
cheers.) I am sorry to find myself thus led away ; but I
think I have received provocation sufficient—(Loud cheers,
which drowned the remainder of the sentence.) It is my earnest
wish, and I hope I may be able to fulfil my intention, to dis-
cuss the question before the House in a spirit and temper becom-
ing so great an occasion, and the mighty interests which are at
present at stake.—( Loud cheers.) I have now been in oppo-
sition to Hon. Gentlemen opposite, with a brief interval of
office, for a period of nearly ten years; and I have attempted
to conduct that opposition—at the same time unreservedly on
every occasion giving a frank expression of my opinion—an
opinion generally in direct contradiction to measures proposed
by the Hon. Gentlemen opposite—l say I have, on every oc-
casion, endeavoured to conduct that opposition without acri-
mony, without rancour, and with the absence of every thing
like a feeling of personal hostility.—( Loud cheers.) if when
I was placed in that situation, in opposition, where sonic degree
of latitude is necessarily allowed, I endeavoured to act in the
manner which I have described, is it probable that on the pre-
sent occasion, when according to the publicly expressed opinion
of the House that opposition islikely to be attended with success,
I should be betrayed into the adoption of a course different from
that which I have pursued during the whole of that period.—
(Cheers.) Sir, it is natural that on the present occasion, if
I looked merely to party differences, I should feel all the exul-
tation of a party triumph ; but, Sir, when I look to the great
questions which have been submitted to our consideration—if
I consider the grave and important consequences which are
anticipated as being about to follow from the debate
to-night—(Cheers)—if I consider that the destinies of
this great country, as far 03 the Administrative Go-
vernment is concerned, may be committed to other
hand-1 say that those who, apparently, according to
public opinion, may be called upon to the exercise of that
power, ought to survey the position of public affairs with feel-
ings far more elevated than those of party triumph.—(Loud
cheers.) I hope that, if the anticipations of Hon. Gentlemen
are likely to prove correct—that if it is likely that I may be
called upon to take any part in the conduct of public affairs—
that I shall be actuated by feelings far different from those of
party triumph. Without any feeling of unmanly fear—with-
out shrinking from the responsibility which may be imposed
upon me—l cannot but contemplate office with an awful sense
of the immense responsibility which must devolve on those who
may be called upon to administer the affairs of this country—
( Cheers)—and the sense of that responsibility would bealone suf-
ficient to prevent my indulging in anything like a feeling of party
rancour or party exultation.—( Loud cheers.) I will now
brifly advert to those parts of the Address on which there is
no great difference in opinion ; and, first, the House expresses
its satisfaction to hear that the temporary separation which, in
consequence of the quadruple treaty, had taken place between
France and the, other Powers, which were parties to that
treaty, had happily ceased. No man can hear with more sin-
cere satisfaction than I do that that separation has ceased.—
(Loud cheers.) No man can hear with more cordial satisfac-
tion than I do that France has been enabled, consistently with
what is due to her honour, to enter again into the great Council
of Europe—( Loud cheers)—and I hope that this restora-
tion of amicable relations is, not a mere formal
restoration of diplomatic relations, but that it has been accom-
panied by a restoration of those feelings of amity, and that cor-
dial good understanding between this country and France which
is so essential to the peace of Europe and the tranquillity of
the world.—( Loud .cheers.) I have read with the greatest
satisfaction the sentiments which have been recently expressed
by one so truly dc-serving the character of a great stasesman
as the statesman who now holds the important situation of
Minister of Fran g.—(Cries of " Hear," and loud cheers. )
It is with great satisfaction that 1 have read his frank declara-
tion, that he rejoiced in the prospect of a renewal of that
cordiality which had heretofore subsisted between France and
England—(Tory cheers)—and that he trusted that the union
of the two people, so essential to the preser-
vation of the peace of Europe, would still continue
to subsist, and that if one word were to escape
from him tending to interrupt that harmony. he should
consider himself undeserving of forgiveness.—(Cheers.) I
frankly also reciprocate those sentiments—( Loud cheers)—
for a cordial union between all the great countries of Europe.
(Loud cheers.) It is the first great interest of all the
European Powers to attend to the preservation of peace.-
-( Loud cheer..) Is not the time come, I would ask,
when it is in the power of the different European Powers
to reduce their military force.—( Loud cheers -) Of
what use can, it be, I would ask, for any one
porter grey ly to increase its naval or its military armaments?
There is no increase whatever in its real strength in conse-
quence; for one universal armament throughout every country
is the necessary result, depriving peace of one, half
of its advantages, and anticipating the energies of
war when war may have become necessary.—(Cheers.)
I know that there is a romantic notion entertained by some
persons in regard to this subject ; but I would say, let each
nation examine the state of its finances, and then ask itself
what danger it may be in from any armed aggression of its
neighbours, and compare that danger with the danger it may
run from aggravating the feelings of its own sr pulation by the
increase in taxation neces ary to support these armaments;
and the answer must be, that the danger from foreign aggression is
infinitely less than that from internal discontents produced from
these causes.—(Loud cheers ) Is it Lot a fair presumption,
therefore, that the true interest of Europe is for al; the Powers
to come to one common accord, so as to enable every country
to reduce its military establishments, which at present consti-
tute a force rather belonging to a state of war than to a state
of peace.—( Loud cheers.) In the councils of every country
of Europe, and in the public mind, which, throughout Europe,
now necessarily itifluenties those councils; a great revolution has
taken place of late years. Twenty-five years of peace have pro-
duced a great revolution in public opinion. Now, let us take the
case of France. What country in Europe is there. which would
wish to see France curtailed of its just limits?—( Cheers.)
I know that it has of late been a common feeling throughout
France that there existed in England a feeling of determitied
hostility against that country. Non-, the idea that there is
any such feeling existing in this country is a complete lois.
take.—( Loud cheers from all parts of the House.. ) I feel
convinced that throughout this country ninety men out of
every hundred entertain no other wish than that France should
consolidate her institutions on the firmest possible basis.—
( Loud cheers.) If France should be subjected to unjust ag-
gression her security will be nut in the number of her regi-
ments, but in the mind. the energy, and the public spirit of the
nation. In such a case France would rise with the energy of ore
man and repel the aggressors.—( Loud cheers.) Let us look
now at another great country, divided by political institutions
into separate States—l mean Germany. Public opinion and
public mind is every day snaking progress throughout Ger-
many, and from Hamburgh to the Tyrol, from Berlin to the
southern extremity ,of that great country, the German nation
would rise as one man to repel any aggression. What is it
that constitutes thegreat security of a state against aggression?
" Not highs raised battlement or laboured mound,
Thick wall 14 moated gate,
Not citif s, proud with spires and turrets crowned,
Not bays and broad-armed ports,
Where, laughing at the.storm, proud navies ride—
Not starred and spangled courts, .
Where low-browed baseness wafts perfume to pride— .
No ! Alen, high-minded men !"
That noble race which, at the call of patriotism, would rise
throughout Germany and in France, to repel foreign aggression,
with the same energy with which men rose in France in 1793.
—(Loud cheers.) I would give this counsel to the State

for bread and they received but stones. They came to that
House boasting of the triumph over a Ministry which would
alter the torn-laws. For his own part he should observe that
he would only receive the Ministerial plan of an Bs. duty as an
*instalment of the debt of justice due to the People with a full
determination upon the first possible opportunity of getting rid
of all protection.—(Loud cries of " Hear, bear.") The
question now at issue, was between them and thepeople,
whether they would impo can impost on fool—whether they
would increase their own rents by increasing the price of that
without which human existence could not be maintained.—( A
cry of " No, no," from the Opposition benches.) Ile said
yes, yes, and their continuance of the plan which led to star-
vation, in spite of the evidence read by his Hon. Friend the
Member for Wolverhampton, showing an accumulation of dis-
ease anti death, as the result. of dear wheat and scarcity of
food proved the fact. Let them talk as they might please ;
let them boast of their triumph ; they should come round to
the question between themselves and the people of England--
whether the people were to pay millions a year more than any
other country for the price of food. Those laws had a double
aspect of inijuity. While thcy increased the price of the
pour man's meal they checked the progress of manufacturing
industry, because if foreign grain were to be imported in ex-
change for manufactures, manufacturing prosperity would in-
crease. They were therefore diminishing labour on the one
hand, and on the other they increased the price of food, and
then they came forward with lamentations on the national dis-
tress. But the problem was how that distress was to be re-
lieved. Let them try a repeal of the laws affecting the consump-
tion of corn. He .recollected a story of a Frenchman who
could not fatten his horse, he had tried spice, and every luxury,
when somebody asked him dd he ever try oata.—(llcar, hear,
and laughter.) Now, he should say, let them give up all other
experiments, and let them try bread for the poor.--( Hear,
hear.) Let them give the poor man food, and then if
he did not thrive, ho (Mr. 01C.) would go to some gnarl
doctor for a remedy for the case.—(Hear, hear, and
laughter.) Everybody knew that one of the great mis-
takes made in the Reform Bill was that it augmented
the county representation, while it narrowed the town consti-
tuencies, and it was to that circumstance be attributed the as-
cendancy of the party opposite, and the triumph at the elec-
tions. The majority opposite consisted almost entirely of Eng-
lish county Members, and he (Mr. O'Connell) complained
then, as he had frequently complained before, that the Reform
Ministry had disappointed the just expectations of the people,
and that they had not worked out their own measure until all
parties were fairly represented Li that House. What he com-
plained of in their policy was, that they had given an incontes-
tible preference to the landed interest over the manufacturing
and commercial interests of the country; and accordingly the
present Parliament insisted upon dear bread—they insisted
upon a bread-tax. What other merit had the party opposite
but the advocacy of the existing Corn-laws in the eyes of the
people of England? Let the two great parties who had governed
this country for years be contrasted. Let them look to the Ad-
ministrar n of the present Government during the last ten
years. misters had done much to ameliceate the condition
of the co ntry. They had increased its. branches, and no one
could forget, now that they were parting with power, the great
it
benefits they had conferred upon the British nation.—( Hear,
hear.) They had humanized'the law. They had almost to-
tally abolished the hideous and uncivilizing punishment of
death.—(Hear, bear.) They had practically abolished that
punishment in cases where it had frequently been applied be,
fore, and they had, therefore, mitigated the law where miti-
gation was most required. Perhaps the same might be said of
some of the Administrations that had preceded them. ' But
other Administrations had merely abolished the punishment of
death in cases where it had never been applied. But the
abolition of the punishment of death effected by the present
Ministry was practical, and had nearly brought to an end that
horrible and un-Christian system. They had also wiped out
that stain on the criminal law which permitted Counsel
for the Crown to speak as often as they might
think fit while the Counsel for the prisoner could
speak Inii once. That was a measure of great importance,
although it had been shorn of part of its utility in the House
of Lords, where a clause had been introduced, allowing two
speeches to Counsel for the Crown, and only one, to Counsel
for the prisoner. The Ministry had still the credit of amelio-
rating the law in that respect, and they were therefore en-
titled so far to the gratitude of the country. They had done
more, they had increased the circulation of knowledge of every
kind throughout the country, by diminishing the stamp duty upon
newspapers, and periodical publications, from fourpence to one
penny. It should not be forgotten that they had done those
things. One of the great advantages of the change he had
mentioned, was that they had put an end to the temptation to
violate the law, by selling unstamped publications. They had
formerly seen men summoned before Magistrates for diffusing
knowledge, because the publication was uneamped. Those
scenes were now at an end. He rejoiced to think, that
if the party opposite had triumphed over Ministers, they
could not.deprive them of the glory of their past services.
There was another measure of great public utility to which he
wished to advert—he meant the penny postage.—( Hear, hear. )
The reduction of the newspaper stamp duty had allowed the
circulation of information ; the reduction of the postage duty
had allowed the circulation of the affections. It tended to
maintain the ties between the absent parent and his child ; it
bound brother to brother in distant parts of the world ; and,
for the first time, it brought within the reach of the poorest
person a mode of communication formerly confined to the
rich. Under the former system, a labourer paid one-third of
his week's earniogs, and he was thus placed in painful contrast
with the man of fortune, who did not pay a thousandth part of
his weekly revenue for communicating with his family and friends.
He would not dwell upon the advantages which they had con-
ferred upon trade and commerce by their measures for break-
ing up the East India monopoly, and opening the trade with
China.—(Hear, hear.) They had done much more by their
destruction of religious monopolies—(Cheers)—by permitting
the Baptists, and Quakers, and all other Dissenters to perform
their religious ceremonies without the intervention of priest-
hood, whose mission they denied.—(Cheers.) In Ireland
they had stricken off one-fourth of the entire burden of tithes.
( Hear, hear.) They would have done more, if the Opposi-
tion now coming into office would have allowed them.--( Hear,
hear.) In giving up the Appropriation Clause, they did no
more than he would have advised, when they found that it
was impossible to carry with it any other good
which their measure contained. (Hear, hear.) That
was not the whole of their claims. In England they had abo-
lished 115 rotten boroughs, in Ireland they
.abolished 15.
( Cheers.) When he compared their policy in Ireland with
that of the party which was about to succeed them, the con-
trast was painful.—( Cheers.) They had effected the emanci-
pation of 800,000 sla.ves.—(Great cheering.) Mr. I'itt in the
height of his power attempted to effect that object, and always
failed.—(Hear, hear.) The Whigs, the same party which
was now in office, were only eight months in power, and in
that time they succeeded in abolishing the slave trade—
(Cheers)—and they had taught all the nations of the earth
that slavery could be abolished with safety.--( Hear, hear.)
He would not dwell upon their conduct in Ireland. It was
enough to say that they had given that country nearly ten years
of complete repose. (Cheers.) They selected men for office,
not on account of their religion, but of their merits.— (Hear.)
He thanked them, in the name of Ireland, for the good they
had done, and more for' the good which they would have done,
if the party opposite had not prevented them.—( Great cheer-
ing.) He would not stop to complain of their not doing what
they might have done. He would not now complain of their
not having extended the franchise to the operatives, who, in
spite of all that could be done by the ether side of the House,
must soon possess it. But, he would ask, when had the
Tories been the advocates of freedom, civil or religious ? He
told them only what the Whigs had done in ten years. Ile
asked, what had the Gentlemen opposite done in the whole
century during which they held office ?—( Hear, hear.) They
opposed the freedom of the negroes as much as they could, and
they only gave way in that. case, as in the case of religious
liberty, when they were overborne by the sense of the country.
When they enlarged the liberty of the people of England,
they diminished that of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) They dimi-
nished it so far that even the coming curse of Lord Stanley's
Bill was not necessary to annihilate it.—(Cheers.) After
four years of arduous struggle, the people of Ireland obtained
Corporation Reform, and what was it when they did get it ?
Bristol, with a smaller population had a municipal constituency
of 15,000, and Dublin (as we understood) had no more than
s,ooo.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Evesham, in
his compassion for the people of Ireland, heaven help us, la-
mented the agitation which distracted them.—(A laugh.)
Why, that agitation was the real grievance, if the Hon. Mem-
ber for Evesbam had only the wit to perceive it.—(Cheers and
laughter.) No one regretted the agitation or the causes of it
more than he did._(Hear, hear, hear.) If there were
in that House that English spirit which, he feared, had
ahnost evaporated ; what would their feelings be if
Ireland abridged their rights by one-third ?—( Hear, hear.)
If they said they would not submit to it, he claimed their sym-
pathy, and told them that the people of Ireland would not en-
dure the wrong.—( Cheers.) When the liberties of the -people
of England were assailed, they struck off the head of one
monarch, and they drove another an exile and a beggar
through the nations of Europe. Who were the party that sup-
ported the tyrants? Why the Tories.—( Hear, hear.) Who
opposed the House of Hanover as long as it was friendly to
the people ?—( Cheers.) Who had exhibited the strongest
symptoms of disloyalty (luring the present reign ?—(Tremen-
dulls cheering.) The Tories.—(Renewed cheering.) What
odious calumnies, what base slanders have they not propagated?
—( Cheers. ) It might have been thought that the youth of
her Majesty, if not her station, would have engaged their syms
pathies and disarmed their malice.—(Chcers, responded to
by cries of " oh, oh," and laughter from the Tory benches.)
What! did they deny it? Why, when royalty was toasted
at their feasts, did they not insult her ?—( Cheers.) Did
they not make a marked preference of another member of
the Royal Family? Ile learned from the printed reports of
their festivals, that win ri the health of the Queen had been
toasted with cold ceremony, the health of another lady was
given with three -times Three and the accompaniment of the
Kentish fire.—( Cheers.) It certainly made him open his
eyes with astonishment, that the people of England could
be so blind as they had shown themselves at the late election.
—(Cheersand laughter. ) But how was the returnsobtained? There
never was such gross bribery practised since the world began.—
(Cheers and laughter.) He would take the Tory organ, the Times
(Great laughter)—which made no question of the bribery.—
(Bear, hear.) It was no doubt false that the country was
gained over by 300,0001., and that the Times was a liar of the
first magnitude.—(Loud cheering and laughter.) They had
gained a triumph over the Irish people in the elections, and (as
ee understood) their hatred was gratified —(Much interrup-
tion.) Est humani generis odisse quem lmserunt.—( Cheers.)
He wished them joy of their majority ; but they would never
have gained it if they had not engaged the sordid selfishness of
the lauded interest.—(Cheers, and " Oh, oh.") The farmers
were persuaded that the repeal of the Corn-laws would be their
ruin.—(Opposition cheers.) They might cheer ; for there they
stood, the avowed enemies of civil and religious and commercial
freedom.—(Laughter and cheers.) They habil and perse-
cuted, solely for her religion, Ireland, which was their right
arm in war, and the greatest source of their prosperity in the
time of peace. The religion of Ireland was the only pretence
for the injustice, and he defied them to place it upon any other
ground.—( Cheers.) Well, they were now going to govern
Ireland.—( Laughter.) Well, who are they to have ?
( Renewed laughter.) Were they to have the Orange flag
again waving over the head of the Lord Lieutenant.—(Cheers
from the Liberal Members, and counter-cheering from
the Tories.) 'the man who waved that flag was punished for
it three years afterwards, for the Right Hou. Baronet oppo-
site called him in that House a vagabond—( Great laughter)—
but the vagabond got a place, and he kept it from that day to
this.—( Hear, hear, hear.) The present Government had
certainly not done much for Ireland. But they had
kept it in tranquillity.—(ltnmense cheering on both sides of
the House.) Gentlemen might cheer and scoff; but their
derisive cheers would have no effect, but to irritate his spirit.--
(Great cheers.) How did they obtain their majority? By
all vile means, by bribery, corruption, intimidation, fraud,
delusion, and lies.—( Cheers. ) Hat tibi fuerunt artes.—
(Cheers. ) But what had heels the result of the Whig Govern-
ment. Why, at the last assizes there were more criminal cases in
Liverpool than in ail Ireland, and the convictions there were
double those which took place in all Ireland.—( Great cheers. )
What were they now going to do? They were going to take
into office the Noble Lord, of whom it w-s said that Ins popu-
larity in this country and his influence in this House were
owing to his avowed hatred of Ireland and of the Irish people.
Ireland was determined to right her wrongs, and vindicate
her claims to equality.—( Hear, hear.) When he thought of
the sacrifices they made to purify the stream of justice there—
( Oh, oh)—he gave them the greatest credit. Could any
person suppose for a moment that. he would vote for a Minis.
try that would not go so far for so high and holy a purpose—one
which was not carried into effect by any Administration that
ever preceded them. What would they do? Would they re-
store the Sherd of Fermanagh ?—(Loud cheers.) No, they

F,VFINING SEJ/kT

.......,......----
of Europe.—(Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches.) I , circumstances might :account for the diminished cottsumptiell 11 trust in speaking in this manner I cannot fairly be taxed with sugar. But is it true , that in the last three memo s to,re Os
presumption..—( Hear, hear.) Hon. Gentlemen themselves been an increase ? is thet true?--( Hear, hear.) - I ha"; have forced this on me..._((eneers, ) It may perhaps be said been told, that fur elle last three months, ending the 567
this man is afraid of war, but he would counsel the other States August, 1840, the co usumption of sugar, the protium: of' 8' to reduce :their armaments for these reasons. Let it tish colonial posseesioe s, was 937,000 cwt., and I have beees
he recollected that a great change has taken place told, that in the same period, ending the 511
in the public opinion. You cannot now conduct war on of August, 184 E, - the quantity was 992.000 cwt.*
the plan on which it was conducted by Bonaparte. You Is that true or re it ? If so why did the Right Hon, Gentle-
cannot liOw make the conquered country bear the cx- man confine his sta lenient to the first six months. If true, it
Dense of the) conquest—(Cheers)—and when nations con- is a most importa:at fact. I value it infinitely less on ae-
sitter all that is to be gained by war—when they consider the count of the revel are than that it is an irelication that there it
immense armaments which they have to support, for the ac- an increase in the c onsumption. I refer to that fact as import-
quisition of military glory with the cost of which those ant, and it encour: cos me to hope that a period,of recovery,
armaments will have to -be maintained—they will at slight, indeed, but still a time in the downfal progress of de-
mice see the necessity for reducing their military establishments. pression has been r cached. I now come to the more important
They came to lake calmer and more reasonable views of the arid exciting topi, • the consideration of the question of the
cost and mode of war. The expression of sued' sentiments is duties on corn ; I fiat I may make no mistake, allow me to
perfectly consistent eith the firmest determination, if occasion quote the exact w ords I then used. I said before the dissolu-
would call for it, to risk everything for the maintenance of tien, that after ni ature consideration I bad come to the opinion
the national honour. Sir, I come now to a point of omission. a bich no intcry ening
.consideration bad induced me to alter,
I did regret the omission of any notice of the state of our rata- t hat I preferred the graduated scale to Ihe imposition of a
1 ions with the United states. lam aware that that omission fixed and irr evocable duty.—( Clicereo I said that, solidi new re-
was not a casual one ;I am sure that it was not an inadvertent peat it.--( Loud cheers.) Speaking of the language I had
one. I regretted it for this reason,' that I found you had no- used in 18391, I said that is the language I hold now-1
thing very satisfactory to state. Questinns were asked of the would prefer theprinciple of a graduated duty to a fixed scale.
Noble Lord by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, to which Ido not bind ,myself to the details of the existing hew, but I
the Noble Lord made no reply. The Noble Lord laid down reserve to nays elf the right of considering and amending these
the principle that we had nothing to do with the laws.—(Hear, hear.) If you ask me to bind myself to the
municipal institutions of the United States ; thet maintenance eel the existing law in its details as the condition
our demands must be made upon the public organs on which the ooricultural interests will give me their support,
of the country, and that their own international laws and re u- I say on that cm edition I will not accept that support.—(Near.)
Wiens could not be applied as an answer to 'a demand ;
and lam now maintaining what I did before. I may be wrong.
the Noble Lord read a despatch of Mr. Webster's, recognizing, I know it is the fashion for every gentleman to presume that
if I understeod it, the principle for which the Noble Lord eon- he is in the right. and that those who differ from him
tended. I understood the Noble Lord to deprecate the putting is in error. have compassion on inferior judge,ents,
of those questions ; I unders'ood him to say that he thought it and do not imp ate motives. You say that we are actuated by
might be more conducive to the general interests of peace and base motives. •I tell you that such is not the ca,e, e pit:-
consistent with national honour thatthose questionswouldnot be timely avoid entering into detail'. Ido now, as I did before.
put ; and under these circumstances, I for one shall abstain in a minority; -with a supposed majority, I hold the same lan-
from pressing the question or seeking any further explanation. guage that 1 did. in a minority. 1 reserve to myself the ma-
But the Noble Lord will forgive me for saying that the expla- fettered power of considering the details.—(hear, hear.) But
nation he gave was anything but satisfactor( Hear, hear.) you arc not satisfied, and whole streams of obloquy are directed
Sir, I will not detain the House by any fnrther observations on against me which, after an experience of thirty years, pro-
this topic, but I will proceed at once to those great subjects daces little irritation. The whole stream of obloquy 1"
adverted to in the Speech and the Address which directed against me on these accounts. Although you say heyon
bad immediate reference to the question before the prefer the principle of a graduated scale,
y ask
ou studiously Wat
House. Sir, in the speech of the Noble Lord hold the mode by which you would
alter it. I
opposite, last session we were called upon, if I under- this of any reasonable man, was there ever a more prepesterarl,
stood it, for an express approval of the measures which were demand made of a public man, than that he should dee!.
_,_
recommended by the Alinisters. That speech had reference net only his preference of certain principles to the whole
to those measures, which are intended to supply the deficiencies world, but that he was irrevocably bound to the preciseeurr.
in the public revenue; I mean the measures respecting the timber of carrying it out. You made this demand of me last yew,
duties, the sugar duties, and the Corn-laws. Sir, Ido not You have renrained in office since. You said to we last years
mean to avoid the expression, or, I must rather say, the repe • You arc coming. into office—we are going Out. Was_ ma
tition of my opinion upon the subject of those duties. I every such a shallow candidate for power as not to tell us w.„
stated before the Session terminated what course I intended to he intended to do ? Suppose I had done it.--(
pursue, and view I took with reference to those measures: I this demand proceeded upon the assumption that 3."
was told that the country would disapprove of the secresy about to quit office; and if in May I had declared my Plan, n
which I maintained ; I was told that it was unworthy of any your views would Lave changed, and toneha in the interven .g,
Cheers-)
ero‘e"
person looking to the possession of power to withhold the de- period determined to retain power, and ppeal
velopment of his plans for remedying the financial embarrass- you wanted a convenient instrument of attacking any detailed.
,
ments of the country. Rut I gave an opinion then, to which project, and, to the host of your power, you would have math'
I will adhere now—( Hear, hear)—with the greater re. it impracticable, and if, afterjhat, I had come into Powers!):
solution, because it has been supported and confirmed would have tied my measures round me with the bonds 0,
would
by the voice of the country. —(Cheers from the irrevocable pledge ; and if I did not adhere to it, you woui.,
Opposition)—that I, who am at present to be regarded as an have said, here is a maxi who came , forward with the detatte/.
to the people
individual, am not called upon by any considerations of public of a plan ;he has got into office, and the moment he has
the
duty—nay, that lam precluded by my own sense of public acquired it he changes his opinions. It is true that I am,,
duty front developing the measures by which, if called to power individual who is honoured with the confidence of a poweeleu
I would attempt to rescue the country from its present position. body, but that does not impose upon me the obligation of deem-
-(Hear, hear, from the Tories, and laughter from the Li- ing a Budget for you. Why should a Minister of the Crown
berals.) Sir, the Right Hon. Gentleman the President of ' have the means of information if we are all to be upon an
the Board of Trade, asked me whether or no if I dissented equality. I will provetoyoe that you do notrequire this from moet:
from these measures, 1 therefore dissented from the principles and that you feel the justice of my observation. Why did you
of free trade. Sir, I protest against the principles of free- give me a year to consider of the new Poor-laws? It has be
the
trade being tried upon those individual measures.--(Hear, the subject of discussion, and why did you not ask ruttier
hear.) I protest against the conclusion---" Because you oppose subject of my details upon that measure? One is as reason-
those individual measures, therefore you imply an opinion ad- able as the other. Do netyou know that the public detail of
verse to the removal of the restrictions on commerce—imply measures has a tendency to prejudice the free consideration ofan opinion hostile to the doctrines of free trade."--(Hear, hear, it ?If I were to p'edge myself to a (articular principle with
hears) Why, Sir, in the first place, if Ido profess a general respect to the Corn-laws, and were then called upon to form a
conviction of the truth of the principles of free trade, lam Government, is it to be said that I must state to every Govern;
not chargeable with any new or hasty adoption of thatopinion. ment whom I called upon to assist ire in the Government 3 . t
When 1 was Hume Secretary in 182.5 I was intrusted there was one irrevocable principle to which he must subscrih
be.
with the preparation of a speech from the Throne which You must subscribe to the precise mode of contracting the
haveave_
recommended the removal of the restrictions on commerce in a , rages. You must subscribe to the private price which I_
manner, as it appeared to me. more calculated to promote that determined on, and from which I cannot depart, becausel
removal, to make it acceptable and satisfactory, than the one have made a public declaration of it.—(llear, hear.) Can_
which was adopted by the Government opposite, of trying the any reasonable man deny that there never was such a Peers,.
principles of free trade upon a mere scheme of financial ember- terous demand made upon a public man, who was not in
that
rassment.—( Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) Sir, in 1825, fice, but a candidate for power.—( Hear, hear.) I stated th...t
with my entire advice and my entire acquiescence, his Majesty , before the election, and no demands, no solicitations, no !HU_
made this recommendation to the House :--,- His Majesty ' cule shall induce me to depart from it.—( Great cheering-2
commands us not to conclude without informing you that cvi- That was the question between us. Many of the gentlem
dent advantage has been derived from the relief which you have who were advocates of free trade were not Members of the last
recently given to commerce by the removal of inconvenient re- Parliament, and those that were seemed to have forgotten theof
strictions. His Majesty recommends you to persevere, as cir- real uestion at issue. We both acknowledge the
cumstance3 may allow, in the removal of similar restrictions, protection ; we both acknowledge the principle of
)protection
of
and his Majesty directs us to assure you, that you may rely upon agriculture.—(Hear, hear.) The first Finance A
or a
his Majesty's cordial co-operation in fostering and ex- the Crown being asked whether this fixed duty was a tax
the
tending that commerce, which, while it is under the blessing of protection, he said it was protection. We started from the
. e
Providence, a main source of the strength and power of this same point. The Government proposed a fixed duty
(taint)...
country, contributes in no less a degree to the ha,ppiness and levied on foreign corn, at all times, and under all cir .
the
civilization of mankind." Now these are the words to which, stances, no matter what might be the glut of the market or
Printecieltion to
in the year 1825, I was a party. The Right Hon. Gentleman price of corn—if it were as high as 90s. or 10Ose—
has a fair right to say, " But don't content yourselves with (Cries of "Hear, hear.") The proposal of the Go'
~
i
these general declarations in favour of free trade; if the prin- vernment as to the Bs. duties was to be rigidly complied :i the
ciples be good, the onus is thrown upon you of establishing the Will the Hon. Member for Stockport apply his proposition t
exception in this case." Sir, I may say again, although Hon. Bs. duty, and when he estimates the amount of duty taken from
Gentlemen speak as if they. had assumed the mantle of Mr. the pocket of the poor man, compareed with the duty on bread,
d
Huskisson, yet I may say again with truth, that I did cordially taken from the pocket of the rich man, will he tell me whether.
co-operate with Mr. Huskisson in his financial measures; that his calculation is not as precisely applicable to the fixed duty of
I did receive from Mr. Huskisson the assurance that from no Bs. as to the s iding scale? And %he itave adopted the filed
memberof the Government did he receivea more cordial support duty, and accepted it as the final settlemeut of the Corn-law
than from myself in carrying those measures, and in mitigating question, what security shall I have that those promised derma-
the difficulties with which he had to contend. The Right ciations levied against the bread-tax will not apply with
Hon. Gentleman says, "We have proposed other measures be- equal force to the duty of Bs. ? As to the graduated scale.
sides." It is perfectly true that other measures, founded Mr. COBDEN.—It depends upon the amount.
upon the principles of free trade, were proposed; Sir R. PEEL—No, it does not. Every one of thesey
he says other and more extensive ones were contemplated. I elaborate calculations apply-with equal force to the fixed clot,r
am sure the Right Hon. Gentleman will not expect me to ex- as to the sliding scale. Every argument of a popular nature
press any opinion with respect to those which were only in eon- calculated to produce disaffection and discontent wild apply
, templation.—(Hear, hear.) But with respect to those which with equal force to taxation, whether irrevocable or not. the
-i
he actually proposed—independent, I mean, of the three great principle of free trade is opposed as much to one as the other,
measures of last Session—the principal- which I can call to , 1 iii
mind me ask this question. Suppose you passed your law !
mind wet a new regulation of the duties on the coffee of era- May last, fixing an Si. duty upon corn, to take effect at: the
ell, for the purpose of correcting that absurdity which permits end of the Session—supposing that the weather continued ,itri-
coffee now to be taken to the Cape..-(Hear, hear.) The favourable, and the price of corn had risen in September to
Right Hon. Gentleman met with no opposition from me ; I 90s. a
duty arr ngm
quarter—doyaouemecannt thensayto ? i
thatritu i
s wouldn o tadahtear
all
all
am disposed to give him a cordial support, upon the principle yourfixed
of that measure. Anothei measure brought forward by the improbable case. You want to give security to commerce.
Right lion. Gentleman was for an equalization of the duties What, I would ask, is the meaning of that, when you, allow
upon East India produce as compared with the pasties to speculate in corn? The moment they kneree the
West India , produce. The Right Hon. Gentleman met amount of the fixed duty, they make great gains
with some opposition, I think, from this side of the House— by bringing in corn from the Continent. That is
some slight opposition ; but he will recollect that I expressed not what I consider the principles of tree trade.
my opinion in favour of the proposed equalization. Another But then it is said that the remote consequences of those prices
measure of the Right Hon. Gentleman, was to diminish the never will arrive. That is the speculation of those who con-
cost of provisions in the West Indies, by permitting the impor- tend for free trade. If the duty was to be fixed at its:, it
tation of timber at a reduced rate. The Right Hon. Gentle- would be in vain to show that it could have been admitted at
man did not meet with any great opposition from me with res- Is., and it would be vain to draw the comparison between the
pect to that measure. state of the law, defective as it is at present, and what it might
Mr. LABOUCHERE—The opposition came from the be when the provision was made. I will venture to say that
Hon. Member for the University of Cambridge. the duty of Bs. could not have been levied, and
Sir R. PEEL—Then, Sir, with respect to this passage in the something must be done for its relaxation. Would you
Speech—" It will be for you to consider whether there are not provide that when corn arrived at a .certain price there
some taxes, so small in amount, that they yield nothing to the should be a power in the council to abate the duty ? If
revenue, while they are vexatious to commerce." That is a you do that you must apply the system of averages. .if you
principle which 1 cannot gainsay. I can say nothing more take no such power, then, in my opinion, the principle ofthe
than that where there are • duties which yield nothing to the law which provides for the total omission of the duty where
revenue, and are merely vexatious to trade, there can be no ra- corn is inconveniently high is more likely to work well
tional object in keeping them on the statute-book. Then as than the principle of a fixed duty. With respect to the flue-
to the otherprinciple enunciated in the Speech, " You will con- tuation in the price of corn. daring paid the best attention
sider whether the principle of protection may not be carried to I can to that subject, I have very great doubt whether your
such an extent as to prove injurious to the best interests of the expectations for a free trade in corn will produce a fixed price,
country. I cannot contend against that principle. It has or can be carried out. There must be such fluctuations in the
been publicly stated that the measures of the Government are price of corn, for the very nature of the commodity depending
meant as fully to meet the exigencies of the present crisis. upon matters so accidental as the seasons, that the im-
With that public notification, I fear that if I acquiesced in the provements in the law which you meditate I doubt would be
general words, it may be construed into an acquiescence with productive of much good. It is importanto in this respect, to
the details of all the measures. I stated before the House se- compare the prices of corn in this country with those of other
parated, with respect to the timber duties, that I would give no countries, in which the Corn-laws do not operate. In consi-
pledge—that "would reserve to myself the right fully to con- tiering this question of the Corn-laws, I wish to throw aside all
sider the whole policy of the measure. In the present state of party feeling, and consider the question upon its own merits.
the Canadas, I would like to know whether there may not be With respect to the fluctuations in the price of corn, I admit
political considerations which may contravene the general they have been great—much greater than could be wished.
principles of -free trade,—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord has I think the great object to be obtained is a fixed price, but that
told us that Lord Sydenham said in ad. spatch, that the proposition I think, could not be obtained by a fixed duty.--(Hear, hear.)
relative to the timber duties would greatly add to his ember- Just compare the varaiations in the price of corn in the
rassment, and that just at the moment of forming the union United States with that of England. America is a country
which the lion. and Learned Member for Bath predicted not subject to the operation of the Corn-laws. It has a free
will be productive of so little harmony and satisfaction. I trade in corn, it produces more than its inhabitants
will ask, too, what are our relations with the United States? can consume, but I was very much struc'e indeed
Lord Sydenham said there might be other measures which with the fluctuations in the price of corn in the United States.
might reconcile the Canadas to the alteration in the timber The following is the account of the variations in the price of
(1116(.4, but to this hour we have never heard one whisper as to corn in New York, from the year 1834 to 1840. Now, just
what those measures were.—(Hear, bear.) What is the state listen to the amount :—ln November, 1834, the price of the
of the Canaries relatively to the United States ? In the news- Winchester bushel of wheat was 335. 4 ; in 1836 it was Ms. ;
papers I have seen a despatch of a public nature—such a in January, 1837, it was 635. ; and in June, 1839, it was 675.
despatch as was never in my time leul before the public— 4d. ; and in October of the same year it was 675. 4d. Now,
in which it was stated that the Noble Lord had referred a what was the ground of these immense fluctuations? There
plan for the fortification of Canada, not to the Master-Ge- had been an intervening harvest, and in October, 1840, the
neral of the Ordnance, but to Lord Hill, and that 100,0001. were price fell to 31s. 9d. There was a fall of more than 100 per
to be expended annually upon such works, and this was all cant. Yet in that country, where there is a complete free
published to the world. IVith what object ? It must be to trade, and a most abundant supply, on account of the variety
show the United States that at whatever risk, we are deter- of the seasons, there was a greater fluctuation in price than in
mined to preserve die Canadair, or to show the Canadians this country. In 1836, when the price of corn
that we are ready to take upon ourselves the debt contracted in New York was 515., it was only 455, fel. -
by Upper Canada.—(Hear.) It may be right so to tranquillize here; and in that country, which was subject to such fluctua-
,
Upper Canada— it may be right to hold out this peculiar dons in price, occasionally having those great prices, (lucre was
inducement for the consolidation of the Union.' It may be right not that exit-cam of suffering mentioned as occurring in this
to publish the communications with the Duke of 'Wellington, country. Here is a most extraordinary statement with respect
but at all events it indicates a state of public feeling, and rancour to the produce of Russia, which was furnished by your own
which justifies Tilley reserve—(Cheers)—because I did not want Consul, and which sliews a very great variation tit!
to add to the embarrasment of the country. Sir, eith respect to the supply of cent according to the seasons, and
what
the sugar question, lam afraid that I must maintain precisely C instil told you that that might be made threefuld% and h.e:
the same language as I did in the last Parliament, and by so dues he add in another paragraph ? In order to give aen
par
-
have I shall compel you to acquit MO of the charge, that I of what this country can produce when the harvests ire
we,-
have modified ern y language in;consequence of the majority which titular) y good he says, "I. have been assure7(l,inl:yre.
the country has returned. I still maintain the opinion which I chant that in 1835 the Government of
May last I was to
did before, seeing that you propose to admit the sugar, not diced 38,000,000 quarters of corn." In • y
rselves n ere to
of Brazils, but 'of Cuba, at 12s. duty. But the measure anticipate all the information which you yooou
wns, e Oh, it is
was so ill considered, even by yourselves, that you were furnish, and when 1 read it your exclainarti
_ro
Sir Edward
obliged to alter it within a week. But I will' asle you whether impossible." This document. is an answer I-
, es it not possible,
you made any stipulations as to the reduction of duty at the Baines to a letter signed " Palinersten•frem i
b lir alone pre-
se
other causes
time you abolislet slavery. Now, in my opinion, by carrying- then, that fluctuations may
• out your proposition you' will,ari'orii-laws ? I cannot
go
affecting,oe.gtiiatlsaiiisdiitoety rsealci--
in the first place, be incurring a than the • operation of thel i., t derive such benefit
great risk of aggravating the horrors of slavery and the slave help thinking that you You greatly benefit
trade, particularly in Cuba. You took no precaution. You front the change which you aW7;itiol
.►any alteration in the Ciiin-
exacted no condition for those States before
the Budget.
to give late the advantages derivable
throseg:itecouuts of distress in the manu
them the boon which would be given by the Budget. But laws. With respect to
above all, you forget that we have a prospect of a perfect
tenselectring districts,
they,fainformation entitle them to credit.
supply from our own colonies, which must, of course, reduce and opportuuitieisit:arc
the price of sugar. It maybe said that I cannot adjust this to Sonic of these aer:ou
eist be some mistake in the aoount. An
the principles of free trade. I admit it. But these considerations, " what must be
thesLilie:l operationa li: onr ,r :Inil esoucsatabt
ateolsOtilafitl‘tit: i-frlitgahisvi , permitteddi connected with slavery, weigh in my mind ; and I did trust, your trios in whiel
calculating that the supply se ould be short and the prices high ; There certaiTielaytii.
-, 'found dead at hisloone and no '. • do
inquiry and that in order to compel a reduction in the price of sugar, unfurtuna,tactter le wig"i t
_ ,i}le'teot,telolo:lnteut ourselves with a mere expression elf' swe °et! ;
it would be necessary to take it from those slave-holding States,
To to
..r are in authority it appertains at nnee‘ ;Pl'a.ll)iad,iin'...
I do not wish to taunt the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chan
ttleiesedetrnhaitti'gcis bare (ousel . -( !tear.)
cellos of the Exchequer with changing his plans of 1840 in
lan; I would merely remind him that the grounds urged be the,
,ott:t it iiiiss'anaciaet,
0 hesitation in y )chorei
_laxity of
declaring, that if I thought an ahem-
him in 1840, with great ability, were' very se mig, and e''' ' .
iliobizit'in 'titre Corn-laws could preclude the risk of a return of
that the main one was, that the 11'est Indies were then
It those evils—if I thought it would be an effectual remedy upon
tottering under the weight of a great experiment.
against such instances of lamentable suffering as
sYs;
tallilots'ocetavhsiiectlT we ha
was stated that 'sugar required a particular
tent of cultivation, and that the loss of life on sugar plantations
(lave ward described, I should say at once to
was much greater than in the production of any ricultural
produce. lit 1840 I voted with them on that ground ; but ,
mil at mice tar interest, it. is for your advantage rather to sub-
hare a right to say that other considerations also influenced
that
a law which le'eallly reduction of your incomes, ti an to continue
but the Right Hon. Gentleman had a perfect right
to
take
of an say it was for to a continuunce of national distress. I would
especially of the agriculturists, that if any sacrifice of theirs
the interest Hot only of the community, but more
course. 1 thought at the time that there was a
increase of sugar from our colonies. The Right
H 1 t"could
e, o ani e
prevent the continuance of the existing distress, and offer
tleinan entered into various details, but he forg
0
ii the a guarantee • e • • a
(A laugh)—he forgot the price of sugar.—( )tear')
Hon. um-
58e 4d - i e aeainst recurrence, to make that sacrifice; and I
sugar was --• • ; would earnestly
Ist of September. 1840, the price of bug' Neely desire a relaxation or an alteration, nay, if
hod., and the.‘
on the Bth of January, 1311, it was sfo.)st: Britsh colonial necessary, a total repeal of those laws.—( Cheers.) But it is
present average prices of steer, the producie because I cannot persuade myself that the Corn-laws are at the
don't say the .
possessions, was 365. 3(1.-0-leer, hear.)
vas any a re-
;bottom of this distress, or that the repeal of the Corn-laws,
duction in the price of our colonial sugar
l'e irinci 1 rgument or an alteration of its principle, would secure the proposed end,
against the admission of foreign sugar—
belt lam I) es of free that lam induced to continue my support of that lair.—(Op-
trade disregard the question of prier' ; . , only stating position cheers.) I own to you that I third; the evil is one we
my predictions that reduction of price as a proof that
Will the
very far w rong.— ( Cheers. )Right lime Gentle- concerns of this kind, no legislative remedy which
cet i
t these
in t
h o
fines his statement prospect
colonial
the
ag
man allow me to ask why
monthsn,, of the present year ? remedy against the recurrence of individual distress. There is
of the con- you can by possibility devise, will afford an effectual
sump:ion of sugar to the filiiestcsoin.
months, that something in the invention and sudecu application of machinery,
—((tear, hear.)
there lids been a sixtrade in sugar. whatever might be the benefits wlech it might ultimately eon-
The propositions :-:'l' the . Government were then knowu, fee upon the country, in increasing its productive power—there
InToebastertiveer,,d;ermi
and every one was in expectation that there would be a great is srimethine in the' application of machinery which leads to the
,
inlet of sugar, and consequently there was a great depres'sion infliction of distress upon those who have subsisted upon the
.
Wan
in the market, and an un grees3 to purchase sitar. Thoie 'ietttantifacturing industry. I the course of •upon
l n
l '