The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-02 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, MARCH 2, 1847

For some months past a number of tradesmen at Chelsea
and Pimlico have been plundered by a person answering the
prisoner's description, occasionally assisted by .a woman
having the appearance of a servant girl. The system had
recourse to was this :—The prisoner or his accomplice, who
had escaped detection, ordered some trifling article, gene-
rally amounting to about 45., to be sent with change for a
sovereign, to some person residing in the neighbourhood,
when the prisoner met the errand-boy at the door of the
house, and, taking the goods and change from him, gave
hint either a spurious sovereign or two halves.
Two cases having been clearly proved against the prisoner,
he was fully committed for trial.

LONDON CORPORATION
REFORM

Yesterday, the committee of the whole Court assembled in
the. Council Chamber, Deputy Peacock in the chair. There
were present the officers of the Corporation, the Town Clerk,
the City Comptroller, and the City Solicitor. The proceed-
ings were of paramount importance.
Mr. AsxtinsT particularly called the attention of those
who were determined that the rights of the citizens should
not be lost to the matter which he had to bring before the
assembly. In the course which had hitherto been pursued,
it was manifest to all that those rights had not been pie-
tected.—(Hear, hear.) In the confusion and hurry of the
last committee, they had failed in agreeing to a resolution
involving the essential principle for which they contended.
That resolution spoke of the necessity of reform, and em-
bodied the opinion of the sub-committee, that the reform
could not be accomplished without an application to Parlia-
ment.—(Hear, hear). There would, he believed, be an
unanimous acquiescence in the suggestion, that if anything
were to be done in the way of reform, the time had arrived
for an attempt to effect that object, now that the Lord
Mayor openly declared and proved that he would not put
any question in the Court of Common Council of which he
did not approve.—(Hear, hear.) In the mayoralty of Alder-
man Winchester, by the pertinacity of one man, the Court
were placed in a similar dilemma. They had in vain en-
deavoufed to induce that individual to act in accordance
with the strongly expressed feeling of the Court, and a reso-
lution was passed, postponing the question till after the 9th
of the following November, when, as was usual with so
fluctuating a body, it passed away. Were the members of
the Court of Common Council disposed to accept a similar
result ?—(Cries of " No, no.") Or would they adopt mea-
sures calculated to meat the wants and exigencies of the me-
troplis? Let them look to what had occurred with respect
to the long-contested subject of the freedoms. The Court of
Common Council had given instructions to the Chamberlain
not to prosecute any retail trader until a certain question
should be disposed of. That question had been decided in a
certain way under the guidance of the Recorder himself, the
officer of the Corporation, and it was quite evident that a
reconstruction of the Corporation must follow, so that the
constituency might embrace the most respectable portion of
the community of the City, instead of being influenced by
publicans and fellowship-porters, in whose hands lay so
monstrous an authority.—(Hear, hear.) If the Corporation
continued any longer in such a condition, their unpopularity
must necessarily -increase. With a slight assistance from
Parliament that Corporation had within itself the capacity
of accomplishing reforms of the most satisfactory kind, and
it was his intention, if the committee agreed to the resolu-
tion, to follow it up with an instruction to the Chamberlain
not to pay any sum upon the order of the Court of Alder-
men, which that body were not legally entitled to draw,
and with other motions calculated to show the citizens of
London that the intentions of their representatives were not
vague, nor capable of misconstruction.—(Hear, hear.) Mr.
Ashurst then moved " That the committee agree with the
sub-committee in their operations as reported to the com-
mittee on the 25th of February last, that the Corporation
requires reform, which can only be done by the aid of Par-
liament, and fur that purpose it be referred to the sub-
committee to propose such a Bill for such reforms and
alterations as they shall see fit, the time when proposed to be
submitted to this committee for consideration."

Mr. ANDERTON seconded the motion with much pleasure,
and declared that, so far from finding fault with the Lord
Mayor for the course pursued by him, the Court of Common
Council ought to be obliged to his Lordship for the unex-
pected deviation, because if his Lordship had not held out in
opposition to the feeling of the Court, they mutt have gone
on in their old jog-trot style, and Parliament would compel
them to do what they were now likely voluntarily to accom-
plish.—(Hear, hear.) He for one was convinced of the ne-
cessity of reform, and he trusted that now that reform was
inevitable, it would abound with advantages to the public.
In his investigation of the subject he found that there were
four grand points to which it was necessary to require the
attention of the committee. The first was improvement in
the elective franchise.—(Hear, hear.) The City Corporation
franchise was, he could not help saying, drivelling down
most miserably, and it could no longer be permitted to be
abjectly. under such control, so that publicans, and brokers,
and porters, could return to both Courts whomsoever they
pleased.—(Loud cries of "Hear, hear.") But if the case
against the wholesale dealer had proved successful, did the
committee suppose for a moment that the Government would
allow the continuance of a demand which it was admitted
upon all hands could produce no advantage ?—(" Hear, hear,"
and " Yes, yes.") What advantage resulted ? He derived
no advantage from it.
A MIMBER.—Yes; you are a member of this Court,
Mr. ANDERTON wished to see his next neighbour entitled
to a similar privilege.—(Hear, bear.) He wished to see the
-franchise so largely extended that the members of the two
Courts would represent all of the inhabitants. The next
thing he should wish to see accomplished was, the periodical
election of Aldermen. It was, he thought, possible to elect
Aldermen for a certain period without injuring their inde-
pendence as magistrates. There was a time when he enter-
tained a different opinion, but experience had altered the im-
pression, and he was convinced that if Aldermen acted ho-
nestly and independently they would be supported by the
public. If they acted otherwise, why they deserved to be
kicked out.—{ Laughter, and cries of " llear.") The next
point regarded the control of the City funds, and he confessed
t hat, with respect to that power, he could not see why six-and-
twenty gentlemen should be allowed to exercise an irrespon-
sible authority over the property of their fellow-citizens. He
did not wish to interfere with their expenditure as magis-
trates, further than to prevent such lavish dealing with the
City cash as they had exhibited in the alterations at the
Old Bailey and the Compter, and other places under their
jurisdiction, in which money had been laid nut without
profit to anybody.—(A laugh, and cries of " Hear.") The last
point to whicb he should draw the attention of the Court
was the necessity which exited for the equalization of the
wards. It was monstrous to suppose that four or six-and-
twenty persons should have the power of electing a magis-
trate and common councilmen for the whole city of London.
—( Hear, hear.) For reform of these matters there was im-
mediate necessity, and it was the opinion of the Recorder and
the other law officers of the City, that without the aid of Par-
liament the Corporation could not carry such reform into
effect. He, therefore, with all his heart seconded the motion
which showed the good sense of the committee, and he be-
lieved that they would not be mistaken in placing reliance
upon the aid of Parliament, and the fervent good wishes of
their fellow-citizens.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. EAOLETON, after a few words, moved as an amend-
ment, " That before the committee seek the aid of Parlia-
ment the contemplated reforms be presented for the consi-
deration of the members, that they may judge whether or not
it be necessary to go to Parliament."
Mr. HuNTi.Ey seconded the amendment, as he considered
that without the opinion of the law officers the committee
were all at sea.

Mr. R. TAYLOR and Mr. ASHUAST said the opinions of the
law officers had been all in print long ago, and were every
one to the effect that nothing could be done without the aid
of Parliament.

Mr. W. Jonas questioned the propriety of going to Par-
larment, pending the difference of opinion between the two
Courts. He had no misgivings as to Parliament, provided
the two branches of the Corporation went up as an united
body; but he thought the chance of success would be
greatly decreased if they appeared to be influenced by op-
posing views. Upon the anomalous power exercised by the
Lord Mayor and Aldermen over the funds of the City, it was
necessary that Parliament should be appealed to, for it was
quite obvious that by Parliament alone was that dangerous
authority to be checked.—( Hear, hear.) As for the elec-
tion of the Aldermen, he should have no objection to make
that septennial, but not more limited; but taking all the
circumstances into consideration, he thought the sentiments
of the constituency ought to be taken on the principal mat-
ters under discussion.
Mr. BURN did not approve of that part of the resolution
which recommended that it be referred to the sub-commitee
to prepare the Bill for reforming the Corporation.
Deputy STEVENS said, it was the conduct of the Lord
Mayor that induced them to think of going to Parliament at
all. They had supposed that they possessed the power to
bring forward a Bill for their own reform. The Lord Mayor
said they had no such power, and refused to put the ques-
tion. What alternative, then, had they but to go to Par-
liament to ascertain the extent of their privileges? He
trusted that deputations from the two Courts would meet
together elk' cordially agree in their application to Parlia-
ment.—(Cheers.) The law officers of the Corporation must
join in producing a beneficial plan, and a termination must
be made to the disgraceful scenes which had been so fre-
quently repeated.—(llear, hear.)
Mr. WIRF, in answer to those gentlemen who did not
wish it to be referred to the sub-committee to prepare a Bill,
said it would be ridiculous to meet a deputation from the
City Aldermen without having something tangible—some-
thing more than a mere abstract principle to produce at the
interview.—(Hear, hear.) It was his wish that all the Al-
dermen should be added to the sub-committee.—(Hear.)
He deprecated the idea of any farther delay. The public
were getting tired of the long-established practice of post-
ponement for which the Corporation were celebrated, and an
effort must be made at once to show that that branch of it
was sincere in its wish for an essential improvement.
Alderman SIDNEY admitted that the time had arrived
when it was necessary to make some reforms, and that the
members of the court to which he belonged were as willing
to go to Parliament to effect the great object as were the
members of the committee. He quoted the authority of an
old historian in proof of the fact that the Corporation of
London was the glory of the kingdom from the date of the
earliest infancy of the City itself. He wished to see that
glory undiminished, and he thought that with the aid of Par-
liament such changes would be introduced as would enlarge
and improve the constituency and extend the benefits of so
great an institution to the whole community.
Mr. Lawiirsce: spoke in favour of the original motion, and
said that if the Court of Aldermen were of opinion that there
was occasion for a Bill in Parliament, that was certainly cal-
culated to show that there was no occasion for anything at
all of the kind.—(Laughter.)
Mr. Eagleton's amendment was then negatived, as was an
amendment by Mr. Low—" That the report be referred back
to the sub-committee until the answer, of the law officers
was obtained to the various questions gone, into by the said
sub-committee to be submitted to them. '
The original resolution, proposed by Mr. Ashurst, was then
agreed to by a large majority.
Mr. ASIR:HST then moved resolutions to the effect that
notice be given to the sub-committee, and that it be recom
mended to the Court of Common Council to give notice to
the Chamberlain of the 22d standing order, and that he do
not pay any sum of money by order of the Lord Mayor, or
)urt of Aldermen, or committee of Aldermen, to which
they were not entitled by some Act, without the .order of
the Court of Common Council. That the Town-Clerk be
instructed to apply to the Ceurt of Aldermen for a copy of
the case and opinion lately prepared by their direction; and
that it is the right of the Court of Common Council, in
Common Council assembled, to regulate and control the
business and proceedings of that Court and the order and
course of its proceedings, and to regulate its paper of business.
These resolutions were carried; and the last was agreed to
unanimously amongst them.
Mr. A.SIIUHST then rose and said, the sub-committee, during
his unavoidable absence, had agreed to certain questions,
which they recommended should be submitted to the several
officers of the Corporation. In the propriety of putting some
the first
questions he entirel concurred. With respect to
oduedldthbeatadtt
others he did
tontelconcur. '
He should therefore move that
ofth
tion upon the important matter Mr. BURN
adopted.
Mr.
needed informa-
rwtter in controversy between the
adviaeofttera of the Corporation were
two Courts, and that
pthroepporseP:urcorr tashe tqouestiona aa Mr. Aahlestehmoiuglhdt,
not think
proper to adopt.—(Hear.)
Dlr. ANDERTON was of opinion that the committee having

already prepared a resolution denying that the Lord Mayor
possessed such a right as that for which he contended, it
would appear highly inconsistent in them to ask the opinions
of their officers upon the very questions on which they had
already expressed their own judgment.
Mr. KING said he cared not what might be said by others
of any course of proceeding that might be adopted, if it was
a right course. The committee could never be justly
charged with inconsistency if, notwithstanding the belief
they might themselves entertain upon any given subject,
they endeavoured to obtain from their own officers a state-
ment of their opinion.—(Hear.) He should vote in favour
of the whole of the questions.
Alderman SIDNEY said the course here proposed was a
highly judicious measure, and be should cheerfully support
the proposal for submitting all the questions to the delibe-
rate consideration of all the legal staff of the Corporation.
He hoped the result of their opinions might lead to a better
state of feeling than for some time past had appeared to
exist.—(Hear.)
Some of the members opposed, and others approved of
putting the whole of the questions.
The CHAIRMAN said, that as the questions had been pre-
pared by the City Solicitor, it would be perhaps expedient to
call upon that officer for an explanation of reasons why he
thought these questions ought to be put.
Mr. PRIOR said it was unfair to the City Solicitor to say
he had prepared these questions. They had been prepared
by a sub-committee, under the advice and with the assist.
ance of the City Solicitor it was true, but they were really
the questions of the sub-committee ; and it would be placing
that gentleman in an unpleasant situation, considering the
differences which existed amongst themselves, to call upon
him to assign his reasons for preparing them in their present
form.—( hear, hear.)
The CHAIRMAN said the City Solicitor had no objection to
afford the Committee any explanation they might require, if
it were their pleasure to call upon him.—(Hear.)
A resolution was then passed to that effect, and
.

The CITY SOLICITOR rose and said he should be ashamed
of himself if, from false delicacy or from pusillanimous fear
of giving offence, he would shrink from the discharge of his
place and obvious duty as the practical law adviser of the
Corporation—the duty of expressing his opinion with as much
frankness and clearness as possible, upon any and every
question, any branch of the Corporation might think proper
to put to him.—(Hear, hear.) After very nearly 80 years'
connexion with the Corporation, his mind had been pretty
well made up as to the various matters of controversy which
for some time past had, unhappily, agitated the two Courts, and
threatened to shake the Corporation to its very foundation.—
(Hear, hear.) He had neither courted nor shunned the ex-
pression of his opinion upon those questions, and having been
called upon by the sub-committee, be had fearlessly stated
his opinion on every one. The only condition he had reli-
giously observed from the beginning of those lamented differ-
ences was, to hold no private conferences with any individual
members of the Corporation upon the subjects of dispute.
Before any committee, large or small, as long as some gentle-
man from the Towu-clerk's Office was present to take a regu-
lar minute of what passed, he had been always ready to
place his opinions and his pen and voleant quantum at their
disposal.—( Hear.) From the commencement of the contro-
versy he had thought it would be expedient for the Common
Council to request from their officers a written opinion, plainly
and unequivocally pointing out to the members of the Corpo-
ration what, in their judgment, were the respective rights
and duties of the various branches of the municipal body in
respect to themselves and to each other.—(Hear, hear.)
The questions now recommended by the sub-committee
were prepared for the express purpose of obtaining plain and
distinct answers in writing upon all the subjects in contro-
versy. They had been hastily penned, and were not so per-
fect as they might have been rendered, had more time for
consideration been allowed. They, however, raised the whole
ve.rato questio in a manner so especially plain, that, coupled
with the anxiety which every corporate officer must feel to
afford all the information in his power, the committee would
have before them the concentrated essence of all the law, the
learning, and general intelligence, not only of those law
officers strictly so called, but of those able gentlemen in the
various departments of the Corporation, whether judicial or
administrative, whose legal education and intimate acquaint-
ance with its customs, charters, and usages, best qualified
them to form a sound judgment upon all the matters pro-
pounded for their consideration.—(Hear, hear.) For his
own part, his opinions upon these matters were well known.
They had sustained no change by his elevation to office. It
was true, that in the highly respectable office he filled, he had
deemed it to be his duty to consider every subject submitted
to his official opinion more thoughtfully, and to express him.
self more cautiously than it had been his custom when act-
ing as an independent member of the Court of Common
Council, without the weight of those responsibilities
which attached to his official position.—(Hear, hear.)
He, however, on this and all other inquiries was in search
of truth ; and if, as was generally understood, he had the
misfortune to differ in opinion from his superior officers, he
earnestly desired to have the benefit of their opinions suc-
cinctly and definitely stated, in order that his own might be
corrected or confirmed. At present they had only viva voce
opinions from his superior officers—opinions vaguely and am-
biguously expressed. In his humble judgment the interests
and the very existence of a great corporation should not be
perilled by the fierce contentions which had prevailed in the
Court of Common Council, without the members having
before them a single sentence in writing from any one of
their responsible officers, advising what were, and what were
not, their privileges and rights. If the Common Council had
not, as was contended, the right to have such questions
brought before them for consideration as they might deem
beneficial to the community without the consent of one gen-
tleman, however exalted his rank, or however honourable
and intelligent he might be, it was quite clear that their
functions as a deliberative assembly were at an end, and they
really had not so much power as was exercised at a parish
vestry.—(Hear, hear.) It was of the deepest importance to
the members to be informed upon the best authority, whether
that was really the legal status of the commoners in the
great municipal representative body of the first city in the
world. If the concurrent opinions of his colleagues should
be to that effect, he could not expect that his judgment
would countervail their high authority, and the Committee
would then have before them something tangible and au-
thentic to enable them to decide whether an appeal to the
Legislature was or was not indispensable to the future welfare
of our corporate institutions. It had been his good fortune
to receive from those who ranked high in the profession
a testimony of their opinion of his judgment a a corporation
lawyer, and lie did not intend upon slight grounds to sur-
render the reputation which, after many years' study, he
had acquired. But, as City Solicitor, he should regard the
answers of his superior officers with the greatest deference
and respect. If he could honestly change his own opinions
after reading theirs, lie trusted he should have the manliness
to say so. If, on the other hand, the facts and arguments
they might bring forward failed to produce conviction on his
mind, he trusted he should be excused if he adhered to his
own opinion.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. ASIIURST said, after hearing the City Solicitor's argu-
ments lie had taken upon himself to move the adoption of
all the questions.—(Cheers.)
Mr. ANDERTON said he should support them for the same
reason. _

The questions were then unanimously 'adopted, and the
following officers were requested to give their opinions upon
the questions :—The Recorder, the Common-Sergeant, the
Town Clerk, the Comptroller, the Remembrancer, the Soli-
citor, the Pleaders Messrs. Ryland, Bendel], Laurie, and Lock.
The following are the questions :
" Ist. Is the legislative and administrative municipal go-
vernment of the city of London vested in the Lord Mayor,
Aldermen, and Common Council assembled ?

"2d. Are the presence of a Lord Mayor, the presence of
any and what minimum number of Aldermen, and the pre-
sence of any and what number of Commoners essential to
constitute a legal Court ? And is the Court dissolved by the
departure of the Lord Mayor, or of the Aldermen, or of the
Commoners, so as to reduce those bodies respectively below
the minimum number?
" 3d. To enable the Court of Common Council to discuss
and decide upon any and what corporate questions, is it
essential that they should be inserted in a paper of business
and a printed summons for the meeting of the Court?
" 4th. has the Lord Mayor a right to exclude from the
summons or paper of business any of such questions which the
members may think it necessary to discuss?
" sth. If, in point of fact, they were excluded from the
summons and paper of business, have the members of the
Court a right to have them discussed?

" 6th. Has the Lord Mayor the right to refuse to put to the
vote any such questions which may be duly moved and se-
conded, when they are ripe for decision ?
" 7th. Has the Lord Mayor, or have the Aldermen, as a
body, or as individuals, the right of veto to stay the pass-
ing of any, and if any, what description of measures, in
the Court of Common Council ; or, the Court being duly
formed, do the votes of the Lord Mayor and the Aldermen
present, consort only numerically with the voices of the
commoners?

" Bth. Considering the state of the public business, and the
differences which prevail between the Right Hon. the Lord
Mayor, the Aldermen, and the Common Council, in regard to
the recent proceedings in the Court of Common Council, what
measures with reference to the welfare of the City do you re-
commend that Court to take ?"
. _

After the reading of the questions, it was moved by Mr.
HARTLE; and unanimously resolved—
" That the several officers before named be requested
within fourteen days to deliver their opinions in answer to
such questions, and to accompany the same with a reference
to the several documents, either in the archives of the Cor-
poration or elsewhere, upon which such opinions were
founded, and that they be also requested to afford such ex-
planations as they may think expedient, to assist the mem-
bers of the committee in exercising their own judgment
upon the several matters referred to them for their con-
sideration, or to enable them, 'if they shall think proper, to
seek advice from the most eminent men in the profession."
The committee, when all these questions were unanimously
adopted, separated.

THE RUSSIAN FLEET.—" We find in a private
letter," says the Constitutionnel, "the following details which
are worthy of notice :—There reigns at Sebastopol at the
preaent moment an extraordinary activi_ty. Several steam-
frigates, now in the building-yards of Nikolajew, are about
to be launched in the beginning of Spring, and a strong di-
vision of the Russian fleet has received orders to be ready for
sea about the same period. They are working night and
day in the arsenal, and a large quantity of balls and shells
are being cast in the foundries. These facts merit the more
attention, as Sebastopol is the principal naval establishment
of Russia on the Black Sea." _

A RABID SOW.—A sow belonging to R. Hastwell,
of Moorlands, near Kirby Stephen, which had been bit some
time ago by a mad dog, went raging mad on Monday last,
and died in agonies a short time afterwards. Fortunately it
did no injury. Mr. Hartwell had been cautioned to kin it,
but not relishing the advice, administered medicine to it.—
Westmorland Gazette.
ROBBING OF PLATE AT THE WHITE HART HOTEL,
Wistßson.-0a Sunday evening, between 10 and 11 o'clock,
two persons, very respectably attired, entered the coffee-
room at the White Hart Hotel, Windsor, and ordered supper.
They were supplied with cold meat and the usual et ceteras,
of which each partook moat heartily. While they were at
supper they called for their bill, which they paid with a
sovereign, receiving the difference. The waiter, after re-
moving the joint of meat, entered the room with the cheese
tray, when he was somewhat surprised to find that the two
gentlemen had taken their departure ; but from the silver
spoons and forks being perfectly safe en the supper table no
suspicions, at the moment, were excited. It should be ob-
served that the principal portion of the silver plate required
for the use of the coffee-room during the day is placed in the
drawer of a sideboard, and left, perhaps somewhat incau-
tiously, unlocked; and upon the waiter going
.to the drawer
to remove the plate to the iron safe for the night, he disco-
vered that the whole had been abstracted, consisting of 12
table spoons, 5 forks, 4 dessert spoons and 3 dessert forks,
weighing between 40 and 50 ounces.
On Monday last Major Smith, who had previously
exhibited symptoms of low spirits, threw himself out of his
bed-room window, at Reading, and dislocated his neck. Mrs.
Smith, who was in the drawing-room, saw something on the
lawn, and on examination found it was the body of her hus-
band. It was supposed that nearly an hour had elapsed
since the fatal fall.
Dispatches were sent off last evening from the Colonial
Office, for the Governors of the West India Colonies, and
also for the Governors of New South Wales and New
Zealand.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, March 1.

The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat OR the Wool-
sack shortly after Five o'clock.
IMPROVEMENT OF TOWNS.

Lord CLARENDON laid on tho table the report of
the Commissioners for the improvement of towns.
INSOLVENT DEBTORS.

Lord BROUGHAM brought in a Bill to amend the
law with respect to insolvent debtors, which was read a
first time.

PUNJAUB.

Earl RIPON wished to ask the Noble Marquis the
President of the Council, if he bad any objection to lay
on the table copies of the correspondence which had
recently taken place relative to certain transactions in
the Punjaub? He should not presslor the production of
the papers if his Noble Friend informed him that he
could not conveniently produce them.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE had made inquiry
this day, and found that there would be no manner of
objection to the production of these papers. And, in ad-
dition to the papers asked for, it was also decided that
the secret papers and the papers which were preliminary
to this inquiry should be added to those for which the
Noble Earl inquired; so that there would be a complete
history of the whole of these transactions in the Punjaub
laid before the House
PORT OF DONAGHADEE.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY rose to ask a
question as to whether any report had been made, or
any steps taken for the improvement of Donaghadee.
There hail been as many as thirteen reports made on
this subject, and all except four had been in favour
of the port, for it was allowed that it was by
far the best for a transit between it and Portpatrick.
Upwards of 300,000/. had been spent in the improvement
of this port, and the only question was as to whether
13,000/. more should be spent to render the communica-
tion complete. Wind and tide both combined to render
the passage the best, for at this point there was the
shortest distance between land and land. As respected the
north of Ireland, Donaghadee is evidently the best port,
for as there is now a railway to Carlisle, they had only
to carry it forward to Dumfries, tied the communication
would be made more expeditiously between Portpatrick
and Belfast than it could be by way of Holyhead and Dub-
lin. He only asked 30,0001 , which,according to the report
of Sir John Rennie, a most able engineer, would
put the harbour into the most complete state of effi-
ciency. He could not see why the Government could refuse
such a grant, as Port Patrick formed the nearest, best,
and safest point of communication with the Scotish coast.
Their Lordships had lavished sums of money in forming
ports for communication with France and the other por-
tions of the Continent, but Ireland never caine in for
any portion of that expenditure.
Earl AUCKLAND agreed in much that had fallen
from the Noble Marquis, that the harbour of Port-
patrick was in an unsatisfactory state, and that the
packets employed were of an inconvenient construction.
At the same time it was impossible that the packets
could be better in the present state of the harbour; and
the question was, was it expedient that a large sum of
money should be expended on it. Still, bad as was the
harbour, subject to storms as was the coast, and poor as
were the vessels, ho must observe that for many years
the service had been performed at the station
in the most regular manner. No serious charge
had ever been made as to the mode in 10ieh
the business was conducted. He would state in a few
words how the case stood, and as he had expresse lit in
a letter recently addresed to him on the subject. It was,
whether they would abandon the station, or expend
50,000!. on it. Sotne'time ago surveyors were employed
to examine into the best harbour on the west of Scot-
land for mail communication into the north of Ireland,
and their report had been supplied two or three days
ago. The report would be submitted to him in a ft w
days; and when it was, he would give his best attention
and consideration to the arguments of the Noble
Marquis. lie (Lord Falkland) at present, how-
ever, would beg to :ay, that the report was
not favourable to the maintenance of Portpatrick
as a packet station ; and that, though the Admiralty
might give counsel as to the course to be taken, the
question of expenditure remained with the Board of
Public Works.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY expressed himself
satisfied with the explanation.
Lord STANLEY gave notice, on behalf of the Duke
of Richmond, that his Noble Friend would to-morrow
(this day) move for the appointment of a Select Com-
mittee to inquire into the operation of the Poor Removal
Act of last session.
POST-OFFICE, GLASGOW.
The Duke of MONTROSE wished to call the atten
tion of the House to the present arrangements of the
Glasgow Post-office. They were such, that though the
mail had been accelerated by the opening of the Lan-
caster and Carlisle Railway, so that the arrival took
place at eight o'clock in the evening, the letters
so received were not delivered till next morning, by
which time a second mail had arrived from London.
16 hours were thus lost to the merchants of Glasgow, the
letters of the two mails being delivered at the same time.
Surely the importance of Glasgow was such, that if a
few extra clerks or deliverers would meet the
difficulty, and enable the letters to be delivered
the same evening, the arrangement ought to be made.
The great ground of complaint was, that though the mail
arrived at Glasgow in the evening, great delay took
place in the delivery of the letters. lie trusted, there-
fore, that the Noble Marquis would consider it his duty,
irrespective of expense, to afford the facilities desired by
so large a town as Glasgow.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE admitted that the
facts stated by the Noble Duke were true. It was true
the mail arrived at an inconvenient hour ; but, unfor-
tunately, means had not yet been found to accelerate
the mail between Carlisle and Glasgow. The atten-
tion of the Post-office had been called to the
matter, and they had instituted an inquiry into the
matter with the view of causing the delivery of letters
to be made the same night. The expense was not con-
sidered an objection ; in fact, the expense would be
nothingcornpared with the advantages which would be con-
ferred upon so important a town as Glasgow, if the plan
proposed by the Noble Duke could be carried out. The
keeping open of the office all night for the reception of
newspapers would be considered; and he could assure
the Noble Duke that all grievances deserving remedy
would be removed.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH wished to know if
the Noble Marquis would lay on the table returns of the
income and expenses of the Post office, including the
receipts and expenditure of all post-offices beyond the
seas. He was:priest anxious to obtain the latter portion of
this information, as the expense of the communication
by ship was extremely large. Whilst he was con-
nected with the Admiralty so large a sum as 400,0001. had
to be voted in the naval estimates for the conveyance of
those mails.
T and should be happy to consult the
Noble Earl as to the way in which it could be most con-
veniently made out. It was right to state that there
would be considerable difficulty in the way of such a
return.
LABOURING POOR (IRELAND) BILL.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE moved the second
reading of this Bill- As the object of the Bill had been
already fully discussed in that House, he would merely
state that it was simply to indemnify those persons
who had been compelled to depart from the law
passed last session for affording employment to
the labouring poor of Ireland. If it was
necessary to introduce any amendments into the
Bill, an opportunity would be afforded when the
Bill was in Comtnittee. That was all that it was neces-
sary to say on the subject.
Lord By had no objection whatever to the
indemnity; but on constitutional grounds he wished to
make one observation. When any one came for an
Act of indemnity, the parties who sought it should
make out a reason sufficient for the break-
ing of the law. And to this he had not
the slightest objection, for he believed, in the present
case, there was ample reason for the breach of the law.
But there was another reason why he should make some
objections to the Act, and that was to be found in the
delay.that had occurred in the obtaining the Act of in-
demnity. Now, in this case, there had been; such
delay, and he thought that there had been culpability in
waiting so long for this Act. Yet that might be no ground
of complaint, but he found, under a certain clause of the
Act, that all the parties had acted under the au-
thority of the Government, and the Noble Lord stated
the substance of a correspondence from a party in Ire-
land, in which a curious misnomer had been put upon
the acts of the Government officials in his part
of the country. It appeared that the party who
had written the letters received by the Noble
Lord had paid a considerable sum for
the formation of one particular road, whereas the funds
were afterwards applied to another. Bat he did not
mean to say that these letters were a sufficient ground
for postponing this Act of indemnity.—(Laughter.)
Lord MONTEAGLE was quite agreed also in the
belief that in no case were the Government officials more
entitled to the Act of indemnity sought than that
which was to be obtained under this Bill. Yet though
commending their conduct, and believing that they
could act in no other way than they had done under the
circumstances there was one thing which in his opinion
called for immediate attention, and that was the com-
pulsion taken under the Bill for forcing the employ-
ment of the poor on the farms in Ireland. Ile
thought that this would be better done under
the Drainage Act of last session, and leave the agree-
ments to be voluntary between the landlord and the
tenant. Any interference more than that which was
absolutely necessary would be unwise, and if they
did interfere the people in Ireland would be left
to their only resource in Mr. Labouchere's letter,
The more the works were carried on with mutual con-
sent the better they would be performed. He
had no objection that the Bill should give the
Government power to rectify all technical mis-
takes ; but he considered that it ought to be done
upon the principle of strict justice and not of making
any person pay more than he had contracted to do.
Those were the only points to which to draw the Eaten
tion of the Hems e
Lord BROUGHAM desired to inform the Noble Lord
that he had no objection to the Act of Indemnity, he had
only observed that he considered that it went further
than Mr. Labouchere's letter warranted. The words of
the Bill were too comprehensive. " Any person who
may have committed any act," the most illegal and the
most oppressive act, would be justified by such words ;
or, again, " any proceeding for rendering such present-
ment effective." His only objection was to the framing
of the clause, and it was to that alone he desired to direct
the attention of the House. He knew it was most diffi-
cult to frame an indemnity clause, but they could in
Committee remedy the defects he had pointed out.
Lord WESTMEATH considered the suggestion of
the Noble Lord as most useful. He knew several landed
proprietors, and he himself was among the number, who

had undertaken the whole of the electoral expenses of
their district, in order to escape the baronial assessments.
Lord ELLENBOROUGII said he had no objection to
the bill, hut he did not consider that the Government
were entitled to the highest praise, which should only
be accorded to those who had foreseen and prevented a
difficulty. But, with respect to the future, he enter•
tained a very deep anxiety, and it would be most satis-
factory to him to know if her Majesty's Government
would be able to offer him some explanation upon the
subject. He understood that it was their intention to close
the relief committees as soon as possible, relying on the
Destitute Persons Bill, and upon private and public
works, for the relief of the people. There were
no less than 564,000 persons in Ireland who em-
ployed no labourers, but who cultivated their own
land themselves. Their whole substance depended upon
the potato, and when that failed they had no money to
purchase food; nor, unless they were taken from the
cultivation of their own land, would they have anything
to give in exchange for it. Ho would wish, therefore,
the Noble Marquis opposite to state what arrangements
would be made relating to the supply of seed for the en-
suing harvest.
Earl FITZ WILLIAM said the question no doubt
was one of great importance. The transition state
from the employment of the people under the Labour-
rate Act to the measures proposed to be submitted by
the Government was one of great consideration. Still
he thought, under the circumstances, the difficulty
would not be so great as was apprehended. With regard
to the supply of reed, it was undoubtedly important
that it should be forthcoming; still he considered it would
be dangerous for the Government to interfere and supply
the seed that might be required. It would be much better
to leave the matter in the hands of private individuals.
—(Hear, hear.) But a more important question they
had to consider, was whether after all, the measures of
the Government would be adequate to meet the crisis
This was a question of far more importance than the
one which the Noble Earl had referred to, and he
begged their Lordships, he begged the other House of
Parliament, he begged the people of England generally
seriously to consider whether the measures would be
adequate, and whether the economy which seemed to
pervade the other House of Parliament, and prevailed
out of doors, would not prove, instead of economy,
prospective extravagance, and lay the foundation of
great expenditure in the future. He wished this country
would come to their senses upon this great question, as
he was sure they were not in their senses upon the
question. They did not understand the real nature of
the evil, and how deeply it might afflict them. He
thought that England was taking a❑ improper view of
this question, and knew not the exact nature of the im-
pending evil.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE considered that it
would have been utterly impossible and useless to have
called the Parliament together in the course of the
autumn to devise remedies for the calamity. And under
these circumstances her Majesty's Government thought
that it would be better to defer seeking for this indem-
nity, which would he more conveniently obtained at the
usual meeting of Parliament ; and when they did meet
then not a day was lost in seeking for that indemnity.
Most grateful was he to Parliament and to the
country to find that when they were called together there
was such an expression of good will as that which
had been manifested on both sides of both Houses,
and he was particularly glad to find that there was such
an expression of good feeling, and that when this
Bill was introduced that it was not likely to meet
with much opposition. With respect to the ob-
servations which had fallen from the Noble Lord
(Lord Monteag,le), who had been exceedingly anx-
ious that the provisions of the Drainage Act of last
session should be carried out, but then he should recol-
lect that there were two sides to be considered, that it
might not be in the power of the tenant to obtain the
advantages to which he was entitled. Then two Noble
Earls (Earl Fitzwilliam and the Earl of Ellenburough)
who had followed the Noble Lord had complained that
sufficient forethought had not been shown in providing
for the distresses of Ireland; but it should be
recollected that no man had ever thought of,
or anticipated, the extent of this distress, and of
the result of the calamity which had befallen Ireland.
The importance of forwarding seed could not be over-
rated,: but the Government felt it would be utterly
impossible for them to undertake the sowing of the
whole country.—(Hear.) Even the proposition of the
Government to allow a certain sum for purchasing seed
for particular localities, had, instead of affording facili-
ties of sowing the whole country with seed, the
effect of increasing the price of seed and preventing
those facilities which the Government considered the
grant of 50,0001. would have opened up. He had
always considered that the plan of making advances to
the landlords would be most salutary, as they would be
thereby enabled to improve their estates, and conse-
quently to employ great numbers of their people. It
was not for him to say what advantages they
might confer upon themselves by such aid from
the Government, but it struck him forcibly that
the greatest advantages might be made to accrue
to all parties. He hoped that the spring would
bring a demand for labour in Ireland, and that to that
extent the distress of the people would be removed. He
did not say that this and other means were fully ade-
quate to meet the emergency, but they could not fail to
contribute much to the alleviation of the distress. He
could not bear too high testimony to the way in which
the Parliament and the country came forward to relieve
the exigencies of Ireland ; but it should be borne in
mind that it was not a question of money, but of food; of
the salvation of a whole people.
The Bill was then read a second time.

PRISON DISCIPLINE.—TRANSPORTATION.
Earl GREY laid two Bills on the table, the second
reading of which he stated he should propose on Friday
next. The first had reference to the existing system of
transportation, and to amend the laws respecting the
custody of prisoners, and the second proposed to alter
the management of Alilibank and Parkhurst prisons.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

ROUSE OF COMMONS, March 1.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock.

SECOND READINGS.
The following Bills were read a second time:—
Aylsham and North Walsham Railway.
Caledonian Railway (Branches from the Clydesdale Junc-
tion Railway to the Douglas and Lesmahagow Mineral
Fields, and to Strathavon).
Caledonian Railway (Extension of Motherwell Branch
of Clydesdale Junction Railway to Auchinheath
Mineral Field, with Branches to the Wishaw and
Coltness Railway, Canderside, and Hamilton).
Caledonian Railway (Purchase or Lease of Wishaw and
Coltness Railway).
Caledonian and Dumbartonshire Junction Railway
(Deviations between Duntocher Limo Works and
Bowling, &c.)
Colchester, Stour Valley, Sudbury, and Halstead Rail-
way (Extension from Laveuham to Bury St. Ed-
mund's).
Colchester, Stour Valley, Sudbury, and Halstead Rail-
way (gxter)sion to Melford, Lavenham, and Clara).
Colchester; Stfiui Valley, Sudbury, and llalstead Rail-
. -N way.(§putavigation Purchase).
Duffryn Llyrtvi, and Porth Cawl and Lynvi Valley
Raihvata,Kmalgamation,
Eastern and Hadleigh Junction Railway (Sale
to thAllOrn Union Railway Company).
East toOketi -Central Railway.
GuildfGra. 'Extension and Portsmouth and Fareham

Railway.
Herne Bay and Canterbury Junction Railway.
Ipswich and Bury St. Edmund's Railway (Extension to
East Dereham and to Aylsham).
Ipswich apil Bury St. Edmund's Railway (Branch from
Ipswich to Woodbridge).
Leominster Canal Navigation Sale.
London and South-Western Railway.
Newry and Enniskillen Railway.

New Zealand Company.
Royston and llitchin Railway (Extension from Royston
to Cambridge, &c.)
Royston and Hitchin Railway (Sale or Lease.)
Strathtay and Brendalbane Extension Railway.
Taw Vale Railway and Dock (Deviations and Bideford
and South Molton Branches).
Wilsontown, Morningside, and Coltness Railway
(Branches to Benhar Coal-works and Edinburgh and
Glasgow Turnpike Road).
The second reading of the Arnbergate, Nottingham,
and Boston, and Eastern Junction Railway (Alteration
of Line and Branches to Nottingham) was postponed
until the 15th inst.; and the Shrewsbury and Chester
for a week.