The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-06 00:00:00

14"!cil LONDON. SATURDAY, FEERrTARY 6, 1811.

time he had to take into his consideration the i
s!ete of Europe at that time, which was so
alarming that at one period there were serious
apprehensions of the peace of Europe being
disturbed. Sir Robert Stopford must also have
been naturally anxious that in the operations which he
was about to undertake the reputation of the navy
should be sustained—(Cheers)—and also to consider
what might be the ultimate events arising out of
the operations he was about to undertake. It was
obvious to him, and I think it must be obvious
to the House, that it would not be sufficient that he
should undertake those operations, considering that he
had no enemy to deal with but the Pacha of Egypt, and
a chance or contingency that some of the great
European Powers might send their assistance to the Pacha
of Egypt ; and he was obliged, therefore, to adopt any
resources to could command in order to effect the
object he had in view. I say this because I consider
that the officer in command, whatever may be the
question Kith respect to the gallantry and skill
displayed in naval and military operations the
officer in command has more under his direction
than cis her military or naval operations. He has, besides
the duty of the charge, not only to consider those imme-
diate operations, but it is his bounden duty to consider
! the position of the Government and the country, and to
take into account many considerations partly military,
partly naval, and partly political.—( Hear, hear, hear.)
I have said thus much as applying to Sir Robert
Stopford, and the part which I am now to state
applies also to Sir Robert Stopford, but equally
to every person. engaged. The Treaty in corn
sequence of which these operations were taken,
was signed on the 15th of July. Orders were
given by which part of theee operations were
taken before the Convention was signed, since then or-
ders had been given by Sir Charles Napier, and about
the 10th of September, the fleet on the coast of Syria,
being aware that Mehemet Ali had rejected all the
propositions, commenced the operations against the for-
tresses of Mehemet Ali which have finally led to his
submission. The first operation against Mehemet Ali
was conducted not against life or property, but with a
view of su bdulng the military force acting by the directions
of Mehemet Ali, and therefore considered as an hostile
force. The consequence of those operations was the entire
destruction of the military force of Mehemet Ali. An-
other operation was immediately undertaken under the
direction of Sir Robert Stopford, but under the com•
mand of Sir Charles Napier. The troops which were
landed amounted to about 1,500. The position of
these troops was not the position which, in ordi-
nary military operations, would be considered either
safe or the basis of any future successful operations, but
it was the position which Commodore Napier had con-
ceived, and rightly conceived, would best effect the ob-
ject to be accomplished. I conceive that the judg-
ment displayed by Sir Charles Napier, as well as the
boldness of conception, are very remarkable features in
considering these operations. The object was not to land a
great army in Syria, which was to be opposed to the army
of Mehemet Ali. The object was with a small force—
and it was only a small force—of Turks, aided by a
few hundred Marines, to encourage the innabitants, who
were disposed to do so, to revolt against Mehemet Ali.
I concur with this view ; nothing could be better
judged, and, as it turned out, nothing could be snore
successful than the operations which were then un-
dertaken. It must be recollected that for some
years the forces under Mehemet Ali were organised
with great judgment and skill ; that the military force
was suppos' d to be very considerable ; that some rec-
koned it at 100,000 men and sonic at 120,000 ; and
that those who professed to have the most accurate in-
formation did not fix it at less than 65,000, not in-
cluding the irregular forces who assisted the army of
Ibrahim Pacha, and were under his command. It
was against such an army that this small force was
opposed. Sir, it was soon shown that Commo-
dore Napier and those who acted with him had
not miscalculated the resistance which would be
made by Ibrahim Pacha. Sir Robert Stoplord, in
order to gain possession of Beyrout, directed certain
operations against the Egyptian force in that town, and
directed Commodore Napier and General Jochmus to
aid him in those operations. That movement was un-
dertaken, but before it could be entirely effected it was
found that a very considerable part of the Egyptian army
was on the heights before this small force of Turks, Ma-
rines, and Artillery, and that Ibrahim Pacha was present.
It was necessary to take an immediate resolution—
that immediate resolution was taken by the gallantry of
British sailors and British soldiers. That immediate
resolution was to attack Beyrout. The attack was
made, and it was entirely successful. Ibrahim Pacha
eft the field, and the forces under Ibrahim Pacha, near
Beyrout, immediately retreated. The consequence was
that several thousands of the Egyptians surrendered to
the forces under the command of Commodore Napier
and General Jochmus, while others surrendered in other
parts. Soon after this an attack was made upon Sidon,
where likewise the success was very signal. The Arch-
duke commanding an Austrian frigate was one of those
who distinguished themselves on that occasion,
and the Egyptian forces not being permitted, in conse-
quence of the direction of the fire of the ships, to re-
treat to the mountains, were obliged to surrender.
The operations, however, of most importance took place
at Acre—a place rendered memorable by the proesess
and skill of Sir Sydney Smith—( Hear, hear)—in the
assistance he gave in its defence. It has fallen to
us in the course of the last year to ac-
complish its surrender, and the same service
which displayed so much skill and bravery in
its defence has been the means of capturing it.—
(Hear, hear.) Instructions left this country about the
7th of October, to attempt the reduction of the fort
of Acre. They were orders, as may be supposed, ,
which left it to the discretion of Sir Robert Stopford,
if he should think the enterprise practicable. He
had, however, considered whether he should un-
dertake
this enterprise for some days before,
and at the time the orders arrived be was fully
prepared immediately to undertake that operation. He
received the orders on the 29th of October, and no time
was lost in at once carrying them into effect. Several
sail of the line were employed in the operations
against Acre. The position in which those ships
were placed by Sir Robert Stopford, displayed the know-
ledge and skill of a man who, in various parts
of the globe, has always shown his complete knowledge
of the profession to which he belongs, as well as the
most distinguished gallantry and skill. (Cheers.)
That complete knowledge and thorough skill in his
profession enabled him to choose the best position in
which his ships could be placed. The fire which was
opened from these ships was most effectual. It
was directed against two sides of the fortress
of Acre. It drove from thou guns the
Egyptian troops, who were defending the place, and
after seine hours an explosion of a powder magazine took
place, creating very great destruction, which induced
the Egyptian Commander and those under him to give
up all thought. of any further defence ; so that on the
evening of the 3d, or on the morning of the 4th, the
place was surrendered to the arms of her Majesty.
I have made mention of the co-operation in these ope-
rations of the Austrian ships, and of Admiral Walker
commanding the line-of-battle ship belonging to the Sul-
tan. Sir, these, then, are the operations which
were conductee under the direction of Sir Rebert
Stopford as Admiral, -with the naval forces of
her Majesty, and with Sir Charles Smith as
engineer under his command, whose assistance
was of the utmost value. Likewise the small
but effective force of the Sultan lent beneficial aid.
These forces, then, have been quite successful ; and what
is the consequence of these operations that were so
successful from the 9th of September to the 4th of
November last? The complete success of the enter-
prise with which these officers and men were entrusted.
—(Hear, hear.) They have ended in producing the
utmost that could be expected from them, without any
alloy whatever—the complete submission to the
Treaty. I therefore say again, that whatever may
have been the policy in undertaking this enter-
prise, it is impossible that any naval force could do
more than what has been performed by these men, or
that success could he carried further. They acted,
Sir, ably, zealously, and skilfully.—( Hear, hear.) I
may now remark, that it appears that the skill to which
modern nations have attained in the various sciences
of seamanship, navigation, gunnery, engineering—
that all these arts are in themselves not sufficient
unless they are directed by the mind and energies of
an able and skilful commander. Various books have
been written to show how success may be at-
tained in the enforcing of treaties ; but all those
means which civilized Europe have carried to per-
fection—all these, and attempts even' with a superiority
of forces, and with time for preparation even with
every financial means at the disposal of a commander
ofsuperior mind, and cnergy,and skill,have hitherto failed.
Sir, 1 am convinced that if the operations which took
place at Acre had been reversed, and that an Egyptian
fleet had attacked a British fortress, the result would
have been quite the opposite. The superior energy and
skill of the Commander, and the bravery of his troops,
would have ended in the complete discomfiture of any
force Egyptian opposed to them. But these great issues
of peace and war are not decided by these merely mate-
rial considerations—they arc to be decided by the mo-
ral force, the mental energy, and the superior talent of
the men wha belong to a nation distinguished as this is,
and likewise some other nations of Europe, by superior
arts, superior civilisation and enterprise. Sir, I think this
is a consideration not to be lost sight of, because if we
could believe that any barbarian by merely cultivating
the arts of war, and by turning his attention to
having a larger artillery, and larger number of
ships could compete with any civilized nation, the
result would be most disastrous. 1 am persuaded such
is not actually the case—that the character and inatitu-
tiens of a nation must always have their weight,
and that those to whom you are to return
thanks
haiteto-night, distinguished as they are by
their
have
,epf:rranviexl
showncoura themselves
g e, a n rl
c..usewthai•ys
found when w
belong nationtoaohave in whom
need of them—a
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tqu..tlities
are ,ay
1 nation which, by its superior institutions, its free-

cloee and its pre-eneuerice iu -too arts, has
been always ready to produce in.n to defend
the honour and promote the interest of the nati.sn.
whenever the oscesion for their s:rdces required
it. I shall not add any more, but move the thanks of
this House to Sir Robert Stopford, and the officers arel
men engaged in the operations on the coast of Syria.
Lord STANLEY—Sir, I am anxious to have the
honour, in a very few words,of seconding the motion of
the Noble Lord.—( Hear, hear.) This is a subject on
which there can be difference arising from political
questions. We are not called upon, as the Noble Lord
has well observed, to discuss the political bearings
of the Syrian question, or to enter upon any question
of the policy which has guided her Majesty's Govern-
ment on this sulijset. It is a question extremely em-
barrassing and dangerous to the peace of Europe, if it
were fully discussed at the present stage of the proceed-
ings. We are called upon to express on this part
of this House the exultation we feel at the success of
her Majesty's army, and the gratitude we and the coun-
try feel to the skill and intrepidity of the brave men by
whose combined exertions, acid by whose mental and
physical powers these great objects have been attained.
The Noble Lord and the Government alone were fully
in possession of the amount and nature of the instruc-
tions issued for the guidance of Admiral Stopford and
the officers under his command. They alone knew how
promptly and energetically they had fulfilled the in-
structions they had given ; hut in the si nation in
which Admiral Stopford. especially was placed—what-
ever instructions were given to him, and whatever
orders he recei"cd from home, such was the critical
nature of the circumstances in which he was placed—
so many circumstances must occur considerably modi-
fying o: even varying the views of the Government at
home as compared with those which the officers
upon the spot were compelled to take—that he was
placed in a position requiring not only activity and in-
creasing casein obeying the orders given, butalso prompt
decision and the highest degree of political prudence
in actii e for himself in the absence of instructions, or
even under the serious responsibility of modifying or
neglecting the instructions which were given to him.—
(Hear, hear.) I therefore think, Sir, without having
information more than that before the House—without
knowicg the details known to the Government at
home—that there is no Gentleman on either side—
I believe that there is no man in the country
—who would refuse, upon the general information
which is accessible to all, that praise of prudence, com-
bined with vigour, activity, and valour which has been
assigned by the Noble Lord opposite as the distin-
guished theme of the applause well-earned, and I am
sure cheerfully paid to Admiral Stopford ; and on this
subject there can be no difference of opinion, still less
can there be any respecting a tribute of gratitude to
those bravemen—(Loud cheers)—who have acted under
him, and have followed up and seconded his endeavours,
who have displayed that gallantry and almost reckless
courage which has been always characteristic of our mi-
litary and naval forces, and which alone, when directed
by the highest prudence, can lead to successful results
in operations such as these. A series of operations,
terminati. gain one of the most brilliant achievements of
modern times, and which will render the name of Sir C.
Napier illustrious, as having thus signalised British
valour in his unprecedented and successful attack on
the fortress of Acre.—(Cheers.) I ought to apologise
to the House for addressing them at all on this sub-
ject—(Cheers)—but I was anxious to state, in the po-
setion I occupy, and in my own name, to give on this
side of the House a proof that on a question of this
kind, whatever may he our political differences—what-
ever may be our internal animosities—whatever ques-
tions oceasioneig discord may arise on other subjews,
there can he in the mind of the British senate—thereby
faithfully representing the minds of the British people,
whatever our political opinions may he—on a subject of I
this kind, but one feeling, and one feeling alone—that cf •
rejoicing and exultation at every new accession of glory
to the British arms, and that universal feeling of respect,
admiration, and gratitude which is embodied in this
vote to those brave and gallant men who have so much
contributed to the glory of their country.
Lord FRANC'S EGERTON cordially concurred
in all that had fallen from the Noble Lord in praise of
the great skill and gallantry displayed by the brave men
who had been engaged in the operations on the coast of
Syria ; but he trusted the Noble Lord and the House
would not think him capable of taking captious objec-
tions if he should indulge in what might perhaps be con-
sidered as criticisim on one of the expressions which had
fallen from the Noble Lord relative to the reduction of
Acre. The Noble Lord, he thought, had scarcely done
full justice to the merits of the gallant men engaged in
that important important operation. He had said that
the reduction of that fortress was the consequence of
the accidental explosion which had taken place in the
fortress. Now he did not consider that any improper
construction could be put on the meaning of what bad
fallen from the Noble Lord by persons in that House,
but elsewhere those expressions might perhaps be
misunderstood, and might give rise to observations.
He therefore thought it due to both sides of the House
to state, that when the smoke which had been caused
by that explosion had cleared away, the parties engaged
returned to their guns, and continued the action until
sunset ; and it was not until the vigorous exertions
made by our ships had been fur some time continued,
that the brave men who defended the fortress
(for brave men they most certainly were) were
finally driven from their defences.—(Great cheering.)
He could not refuse himself the gratification of express-
ing his entire concurrence in all that bad been said by
the Noble Lord in praise of the gallantry and skill dis-
played by those brave men.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
He would not subject himself to the charge of
exaggeration by comparing the deeds of those
brave men to those of the naval heroes of former
times, of Blake, of Howe, and of Nelson ; but be be-
lieved that they were fitting companions for those brave
men, and that the British Navy would always distinguish
itself whenever called upon, 'as it had done here-
tofore, equally in the impetuous rush to the attack,
and in the skill and judgment by which that impetuous
valour was directed.—(Cheers.) But he might be
permitted to observe that during the course of these
operations in the East exploits had been performed
which could not have taken place in the times of Nelson.
The gallant exploit of the landing effected at Djuni
Point by Sir Charles Napier, and on which he con•
eidered the success of the subsequent operations had
mainly depended, had been effected by the power of
steam, without which it would not have been attempted.
The whole success of the subsequent operations de-
pended, he believed, upon the success of Sir Charles
Napier in effecting that lending.—(Cheers.) There
had also been another exploit to which he would ,al-
lude, which could not have been performed in
the time of Nelson. He had been informed that
a line-of-battle ship had been ordered to batter
down a round tower at Acre, with round-shot alone,
and that the operations for carrying that order into
effect had been executed in such a manner, that the
whole broadside was delivered with a most fearful
accuracy.—(Cheers.) He almost regretted that the
forms usually observed on these occasions prevented the
names of other officers being particularized. He could
not but regret that the names of Sir Thomas Hastings—
(Cheers)—of a gentleman who in politics belonged
to the other side of the House, and who he
considered as one of the best officers in the service, Sir
John Pechell—(Cheers)—and Sir Howard Douglas
—( Loud cheering),--hriel not been mentioned.
With regard to what the Noble Lord had said
as to his belief that if the circumstances had
changed, and if this country's operations had been
operations of defence rather than attack, the result
would have been the same ; now lie (Lord F. Eger-
ton) thought there were circumstances that made that
extremely probable, for one of the officers engaged was
distinguished above all the rest as one of the finest officers
that England had latterly produced. In conclusion he
begged most cordially to support the motion of the No-
ble Lord.
The SPEAKER having put the question from the
Chair,
Mr. HUME rose. He hoped the time would never
come when a difference of political opinion in that House
would induce any Members to withhold their just weed of
praise and approbation to the display of great military
and naval skill. He was as anxious as any man to afford
to the navy and military forces of the country their
just meed of praise, but be regretted that those
forces had been employed in a service so injurious
to the country ; he therefore, though he joined in the
vote, felt bound to condemn the policy that
had been pursued by her Majesty's Ministers ; and
he wished, before the debate closed, to know
when the papers on this subject would be
laid on the table of the House, in order
that the House might see how far her Majesty's Mi-
nisters were to blame.
Sir HENRY HARDINGE had no protest to
enter into against her Majesty's Ministers, or the
pol.ey they had pursued. Ile thought it would be
imrrudent to do so in the absence of the papers. In
his opinion, the Noble Lord, and those who had
followed him, had acted wisely, and es they ought to
have done, when a vote of thanks was offered to the army
or the navy, by abstaining from any political allusions.
He ageced with the accurate account given by the
Noble Lord of the operations in Syria, and it was his
firm belief that no men better *erved the thanks of
the House than thOse who Wel' oneerned in the ope-
rations in Syria. Whatever might be the difficulties of
any orders which our navy might receive, such were the
resources, such the genius, and such the originality of
t hat branch of our service, that, whether it:was afloat or
whether it was on shore, they always brought their ef-
forts to a successful result. On the present occasion he
considered that although the navy had not had the same
hard fighting that it had had on former occasions, yet
the skill and the science which they displayed were at-
tributes of their superiority of the greatest importance ;
and he (Sir Henry Hardinge) hailed their success with
the greatest satisfaction. The Noble Lord, in men-
tioning Admiral Stopford's successes, bad stated that
before he received instructions from home he was fully
prepared to carry into effect his own resoluticn to attack
, Acre. Now not only was Admiral Stopford fully pre-

pared, Lot he had also made up hts mind to attack
Acre la:fore he received instructions to that effect.—
( Hear, hear.) He thought it was due to the Gallant
Admiral that that point should be clearly understood—
that he had made preparations to attack Acre before
the Ve:mi,ius arrived, bearing the instructions of Lord
Palmerston. 'rim Noble Lord, in the course of his
speech had alioded to a very memorable instance in
which our navy had distinguished itself on that very
spot—the defence of Acre under Sir Sydney Smith.
He (Sir H. Hardinge) would not draw a parallel be-
tween the exploits of Sir Sydney Smith and those of
Admiral Stopford. It was impossible to institute a
comparison, for the cases were dissimilar in all their
features. On the ono occasion Admiral Stopford de-
stroyed the defences of Acre ; on the other occasion to
which the Noble Lord had referred, and which oc-
curred about forty years ago, Sir Sydney Smith landed
his marine's and the crews of his ships, entered int,
the breach, and in a series of about six days' opera-
tions, having sustained nine assaults against the French
army—one of the greatest armies of that period—he
effected the safety of die town by repulsing all the
efforts made against his force. The cases were per.
feetiy dissimilar, and therefore he would not make any
invidious comparison. He would take this opportunity
of en eking a suggestion to the House, which he thought
of cansiderable imports.nce. Sir Sydney Smith had
received the thanks of both Houses of Parliament
for his explolts at Acre. Lord Spencer, he believed, de-
dared, in his place its Parliament, that he had performed
an exploit uurivalled in history. Parliament was of
the same opinion ; for, departing from its ordinary usages,
it had passed a rote of thanks to him for his services,
though he was only a captain in the navy. The gal-
lant officer had been dead two or three years, and. he
would take this opportunity of suggesting to the House
the propriety of erecting a- monument to him in St.
Paul's. It appeared to him that his exploit at Acre
was of such a memorable character, that the House were
bound in that manner to mark their sense of his services.

Sir DE LACY EVANS made a few remarks, the
greater part of which were inaudible in the gallery; but
we understood him to express his warm approval of the
vote of thanks, and his regret that any remark should
have been made on this occasion condemnatory of the
policy of the Government.
Sir R. INGLIS said he had felt the greatest delight at
the success with which it had pleased Almighty God to
bless her Majesty's farces.; he hoped this Christian people
while looking to the instruments would not forget that.
it was the hand of God that directed their efforts. He
eoncurred with the Noble Lord in the terms in which
he had proposed this vote of thanks, the highest honour
which tbis House could pay to any of their follow-sub-
jects. But he trusted that the Noble Lord would nor
feel that he had discharged his duty to the subjects of
that motion if, high as was the honour proposed, he
limited his reward to that vote of thanks. It was in
the power of her Majesty's Government to confer a pe-
cuniary reward upon these men, but he trusted that, in-
stead of that, there would be conferred upon the gallant
Commander one of a more enduring character, and
one which had been observed on similar occasions.
He trusted he had not unnecessarily obtruded these ob-
servations upon the House.
Lord INGESTRIE could not allow the vote to
pass without cffcring his tribute of approval to the con-
duct of 'the gallant men whose exploits were now
under their consideration. He regretted to find that
there was an Hon. Member of the House who differed
as to the expediency of such a vote, because it was a
question on which there could be no party or political
feelings whatever. He hoped her Majesty's Govern-
ment would attend to the hint thrown out by the R.ght
Hon. Baronet near him, of conferring some distinction
on the gallant Commander of the Forces in the Medit-
teranean. There was one officer who in those opera-
tiohs had met with his death, not by the guns of the
enemy, but by the climate, and whose services had b:cn
such as to merit the insertion of his name in this vote
of thaLks. He was an officer of marines, and perhaps
it might he some consolation to his family to find such
honourable mention made of the corps, to which he be-
longed.—(Hear.) The Noble Lord concluded with
expressing his cordial concurrence in the motion. -
Lord J. RUSSELL wished to say, in reference to
what had fallen from the Noble Lord the Member for
North Lancashire (Lord F. Egerton), that the allu-
sion to the explosion in Acre had only been made in
consequence of its having been so prominently men-
tioned in the despatches of Sir.R. Stopford.—( Hear.)
'Fire following Resolutions were then read by the
SHEAKER, amidst vehement cheers from both sides :

That the thanks of this House be given to Admiral
Sir Robert Stopford, for his gallant conduct in the ope-
rations upon the coast of Syria.—(Cheers.)
That similar thanks be given to Sir Charles Napier,
Knight Commander of the Bath.—(Cheers.)
That this House acknowledges, and highly approves,
the services of the Royal Marines.--(Cheers.)
That the thanks of this House be given to Major-
General Sir Charles Frederick Smith, and the officers
of the Royal Artillery, for their gallant conduct in those
operations.—( Cheers.)
That this House acknowledges, and highly approves,
the services of the corps of Sappers and Miners.—
(Checers.)
To Rear-Admiral Baron Bandeira and the naval
f.,recs of Austria under his command. •

To Admiral Walker, and the forces of bid Highness
the Sultan under his command.
Which were severally carried nem. con.
On the motion of Lord JOHN RUSSELL, it was
agreed that the Speaker do communicate the above
resolutions to Admiral Stopford, and to request him to
make known the same to the officers and men under his
command.

forded, it became them to encourage that which
slow in production, high in aim, and lasting in duration,
nd not to say that ad the profits should he
given to the labour3 of a day—( Hear, hear, hear)—
that those who vindicated their own powers for irn-
m,7trtality, as f'ar as it could be judged of by the years
of life, should not go without their just reward.—( Hear,
hear.) He would not trouble the House further on a
subject, which he beikved, on his part, was quite ex-
hausted. He therefore begged leave to move the second
reading of the Bill.
_ _

Mr: MACAULAY said it was in some sense with
pleasure that he approached a subject with which poli-
tical animosity had nothing to do. Yet he did not
rise without considerable anxiety. It was painful to
biro to take a part which might be misunderstood and
nrisrepzesented as unfavourable to literature and literary
men. It was painful to him to oppose his Hon. and
Learned Friend on a question which he was sure he
had taken up from the purest motives, and had sup-
ported with distinguished ability.—(Cheers.) But so
satisfied was he that the proposed measure would con-
fer no boon on men of letters, which would compensate
for the injury it would inflict upon the public—(Hear,
• hear)—that he felt it his duty to express distinctly his
disapprobation of it. One word on the subject to
which the greater part of his Learned Friend's
speech related, for it was surely important that
in starting they should distinctly settle on what
principle the question rested. Was that a question
of right, or a question of expediency ? It was of great
importance to determine that, because if it were an
undoubted question of right, he should be by no means
disposed to join in any compromise such as that which
his Hon. and Learned Friend acknowledged his Bill'to
be. if there were a right in the case, let that right,
he should say, be vindicated, no matter at what cost.
He knew that some of those who had written on the
measure, and some of those who had presented peti-
tions in favour of it, laid it down as a principle, that a
man add, by the law of nature, an indefeasible right in
his own ideas, in the fruits of his own imaginatioa, and
his own reason. The Legislature had, of course, the
power to take away that right, as it had the power to
pass an Act of Attainder, or to cut off the head of an
innocent party ; but as such an Act of Attainder would
be considered an act of legal murder, so an Act de-
priving authors of their natural rights, should be looked
upon as an act of legal plunder. For his part, he most
certainly held that property was simply the creature of
the law, and that the law which created property could
be defended on no other ground than that it was a law
which tended to the benefit of mankind. But even
though he were to admit that property had a d.ff rent
origin from that, that it was a right independent of
public utility, he should still hold that the right
would at all events expire with the original proprietor.
Whatever opinion might Ise held about the origin of
property itself, he maintained that the right of succes-
sion to it, as it now existed, was at all events the crea-
ture of the law. How, then, could the right of suc-
cession be considered as a right registered in Heaven,
as a right written in the minds of men, and anterior to
all legislation ? If there were such a law he was sure
that the law of copyright was by no means the only in-
stance in which it was violated. He need go no fur-
ther for an exemplification of that than the manner in
which personal property descended, it being in certain
cases limited to the eldest son, in other cases divided
equally among the children, or being allowed to be
transmitted to strangers. Whatever might be the me-
taphysical opinions entertained as to the origin of the
right of property, there could be but one opinion, he
apprehended, as to the principle by which legislation as
to the distribution of property should be guided, and
that principle was the public good.—(Loud cheers.)
Now that was the whole question between his Hon.
and Lsarned Friend and himself' Ile did not
wish to infringe upon or interfere with the right of
the author during his life, and the whole question
between himself and his HO3. Friend, therefore, re- 1
duced itself to a question of posthumous copy right.—
(Cheers.) With regard to that, he contended that the
Legislature had a perfect right to act as might seem to
it best, that it was quite fair to act in any manner
which it might consider most conducive to the public
good.—(Cheers.) Let them now descend from the
clouds, and come to the practical consideration of the
question as to the duration of posthumous copyright ;
and in considering this question, it was to be recollected
that there were evils on both sides of the question.
He wished to see the most ample remuneration secured
to authors. We could not expect our literature
to be kept up unless this were the case. It could only
be kept up by the exertions of those who had leisure af-
forded to them to pursue their literary labours. It
would not do to trust solely to the exertions of the rich
and noble to effect this, although among that
class there were to be found those who reflected
the highest honour, and who had been of the greatest
possible service to literature, but they were not
impelled by necessity to those exertions, and although
the desire of usefulness, and the desire of distinction,
were doubtless great motives to exertion with that class
of men, yet in this country, as the House was well
aware, the bulk of men of that class who were actuated
by those motives devoted their attention to politics,
and, therefore, the bulk of them could not, of course, be
depended upon to forward the cause of literature, which
must depend qoie the exertions of men who looked to
it for their remuneration. Now, there were two ways
in which that remuneration might be afforded to literary
men—the one was by patronage, the other by copy-
right. With regard to the first, it might be, and doubt-
less was desirable, when the reading public was small in
number, and the author could not obtain a sufficient re-
muneration for the sale of iris works, that an author
should enjoy the same sort of patronage as he had in
the days of Mecuenas, of Louis XIV., aed which
had been extended to literary men in this coun-
try by Halifax and Roxburghe ; but no one, if
he valued the dignity of the literary character,
would with to see such times as these.—(Cheers.)
Ile thought that literature ought to depend for support
upon the many, and not the few.—(Hear, hear.) A
particular case might arise in which it might be
proper, nay, in which it might be the sacred duty of
tee Government to confer a pension upon genius in dis-
tress, but it was not right—it was not reasonable—that
literary men should be taught to look to patronage of
that sort for their support--.,Cheers)—and the effect of
their doing so would be to turn their minds, which na-
ture had formed for the blessing and ornament of so-
ciety, into its scandal and its pest.—(Loud cheering.)
He would admit that the giving a monopoly to the au-
thor was by far the most advantageous method of af-
fording remuneration to the author, but on the other
_hand monopoly had its evils. When his Hon. and
Learned Friend said that it was a theory that a mono-
poly increased the price of works, it was the same thing
as say ing that it was a theory that the sun gave us light,
that it was a theory that lead was heavier than wester.
These were all theories, which were the results of the
experience of all men, of all ages, in all times, and he
should as soon expect to hear the accuracy of any de-
monstrated mathematical truth called in question, as to
hear it denied that the effect of monopoly must neces-
sarily be an increase of price.—(Cheers.) If the
theory of his Hon. and Learned Friend as to the ten-
dercy of monopolies to cheapen articles were correct,
he should be prepared to go much beyond the present
Bill.—( Cheers.) Why not make the monopoly per-
petual ? Why not restore the monopoly of tea?—
(Cheers.) Nay, why not restore all those monopolies
which were in existence in the days of CI teen Elizabeth,
and which had roused the people of this country to
such a pitch of indignation as to make even that proud
Princess flinch before the spirit of the people.—
(Cheers.) There could be no doubt that, abstractedly,
monopoly was an evil, and between these two evils they
must take their choice and exercise their judgment,
so as to devise the plan best for the public good.
He had no hesitation in saying that the aid which the
present law gave would be greatly impeded by the
measure proposed by his Learned Friend, for it would
have the effect of giving a sixty years' monopoly, which
would be highly injurious ; for the effect of it would be
to give an advantage that a man probably would never
enjoy himself. In such a case, what would that man
care for that advantage ? Was it reasonable to suppose
that that would produce any great effect upon his exer-
tions ? It was probable that a time would come when
property in Australasia would become exceedingly va-
luable, but would that induce any man to give 51. for
a whole province there now ? Dr. Johnson died about
sixty years ago, and, if his Learned Friend's proposition
had been law, there would have been a monopoly in his
works. Did any one think that the prospect of such a
thing would have given the Doctor any pleasure, or have
increased his exertions ? Certainly not ; he would much
sooner have bad 2d. to buy him a plate of beet at some of
the coffee-houses in the Courts in Fleet-street,where
he was obliged to go. He (Mr. Macaulay) could buy
Rassslas at the present moment for ls., whereas if his
Learned Friend's proposition had been law he should
have been obliged perhaps to have given ss. He should
not grudge any amount he.peeid_for books in consequence
of the law of copyright, provided it gave increased hopes
and energies to the author ; bat when he was convinced
it would not, lie must say that the public ought
to have the benefit of having their works at a cheap
rate. The effect of copyright wins to levy a tax upon
readers ; .it was a tax upon the purest pleasures and
pursuits of mankind, and it was a tax hostile to the vir-
tues of the people. He had no objection. to give
20,000/. to Dr. Johnson, but he objected to imposing a
tax of 20,0001 upon the public without giving Dr. Johnson
one farthing's worth of pleasure. No one would be more
rejoiced than himself to see a descendant of Shakspeare
enjoying the profits of the works of his great ancestor,
but he would remind his Hon. and Learned Friend that
probably there was no species of property which was
less likely to be enjoyed by all -the descendants of an
author than copyright. It would be sold to the book-
sellers long before the end of sixty years.—( Hear,
hears.) Would the bookseller give the same price for
a term of GOyears as he would for a term of 10? Every -
one knows be would not, for nothing was more' uncer-
tain than the value of copyrights after so long a period.
Every one knew the .estimation in which Cowley 's world
were held in the time of Charles 11. and yet who now
read them ? The same might be said of Lord Bolling-.,!