The Sun.
London, England, 1847-07-10 00:00:00

f

matter of a personal nature which he had given notice
the day before. He would content himself by laying the
facts of the case before the House, and leave it to deal
with them. On Tuesday last, in the exercise of that
judgment which it was so desirous should be left unfet-
tered by any circumstances whatever, he, after attending
to the debate on the subject of the Raja of Sattarab, had_
come to the conclusion that it was his duty to vote against
the motion of the Hon. Member for Montrose. Happen-
ing to sit next morning near the Hon. Member for
Rochester, the Hon. Member for Montrose came across.
the House, and, in an excited manner—(Laughter)—
said to him, " You voted against me last night." He
(Mr. Spooner) replied that he had done so, when the
Hon. Member rejoined, " I will bring the conduct of
I your son before the House." The Hon. Member also
threatened to do the same with respect to a near relative-
of the Hon. Member for Gateshead (Mr. Hutt) who had.
also voted against him; and he added, " lam prepared to-
prove that only 13 independent Members voted against-
me."—(Laughter.) That was the real statement of the
facts. He (Mr. Spooner) immediately said that if the
Hon. Member had any charge to prefer against his son,
he would, as a matter of courtesy, state to him what.
were the particulars of his charges, so that he might:
have an opportunity of replying to it. The Hon. Member
for Montrose's only reply was—" Look to the
Blue-book and see the certificate he gave—he
was a magistrate concerned in the matter." He (Mr.
Spooner) did not know at the time what was the proper
language for him to use—(Laughter)—but he consulted
several of his friends of more experience than himself, and
they had told him that this was a matter which he could
not let pass, and that he ought to state the thing to the
House, and let the House deal with it as it thought fit.
If this were not a breach of privilege, it at least assumed_
the character of intimidation, and it was conduct cer-
tainly that ought not to be withheld from the
knowledge of the House. He would just call the
chargebstr ainnattention
e t
that
ht
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son,
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that
ak
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Mesingular
concludingionngt ground
c thoi circum-
stance,
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the
oe-
do it, considering that he had had the Blue-book before
him, in which the transaction with which his son.
was connected had been for two years recorded. But
the Hon. Member for Montrose did not confine himself
to the single charge, for he also brought a charge
against a relative of the Hon. Member for Gateshead.
These were the circumstances to which he had to call the
attention of the House, and he trusted that his expres-
sions in doing so had evinced no improper feeling. He
would now leave the matter altogether at the dis-
posal of the House. If it were necessary that he
should explain the season why he had given this
vote he was prepared to do so, but as he could impart no
new information upon the subject he had preferred giv-
ing a silent vote upon the subject. He would here leave
the matter entirely in the hands of the House.
Mr. HUME said that in all his experience this was the
most extraordinary speech that had ever been made by
any Member in that House. While sitting at home, at five
o'clock, he had received a note from the Hon. Member for
Birmingham, requesting him to be in the House at four
o'clock. He (Mr. Hume) was entirely at a loss to un-
derstand what he wanted with him. He did not know
whether the Hon. Member thought that he had com-
mitted some violation of his Seduction Act—(Roars of
laughter)—or what it might have been that the
Honourable Member intended to charge him with. But
he was now undeceived upon the point, and he would
leave it to the House whether any Hon. Member in it
had ever heard a charge like this brought forward. It
appeared to him that the Hon. Member ought to be
obliged to him instead of complaining of his conduct.—
(Laughter.) What he had said to the Hon. Member for
Birmingham was, "I see you voted against me last
night ;" he said " I did." " Have you seen the result
of the numbers ?" " No." " Then I can tell
you, that out of the numbers who voted against
me twenty-eight belonged to the late and present Go-
vernment and to the East India House, and only four-
teen independent Members really voted against the
motion. I therefore put the fourteen independent
Members against my twenty-three supporters, and I
consider that the division was in my favour."—(Laugher.)
He referred to the Mr. Spooner mentioned in the Blue
• book, and the Hon. Member for Birmingham said " He
is my son." He (Mr. Hume) then said, "On Tuesday
next I will give the House an opportunity of reconsider-
ing this question, and I will then refer to this
division, and show that only fourteen independent
Members voted against me." That was all that had
taken place, and a more gratuitous interference on the
part of the Hon. Member for Birmingham he had
never seen. It would be his duty on Tuesday next to
show that both the Hon. Member for Birmingham and
the Hon. Member for Gateshead had been influenced
by external circumstances ; their near relatives
being acting magistrates in the earlier history
of these circumstances, the one being the magis-
trate before whom the robber was brought, on whose
body was found the papers connected with the Goa con-
spiracy, and the other the magistrate who imprisoned
Govind Row, the principal minister of the late Baja.
He did not mean to impugn their characters as magis-
trates, because he could show that they had acted under
instructions from head-quarters. The Hon. Member
had charged him with a breach of privilege ; he
thought he could better charge the Hon. Member
with a breach of confidence in thus bringing
before the House private conversation. He thought the
Hon. Member for Birmingham, had not, in this instance,
acted with his usual good sense and correct judgment.
Mr. HUTT said that the Hon. Member for Montrose
did not always exhibit a most perfect wisdom, nor
was his language and demeanour, on all occasions,
the most delicate and proper. He (Mr.
Hutt) cared not for any a`tempts that might
be made to asperse his relations by the
lion. Member for Montrose. lie always received them
with cheerfulness, and is fact rather liked them.—
(Laughter.) The Hon. Member then proceeded to
state, that when Govind Row was placed in prison Mr.
Hutt proceeded immediately to release him, had him
placed in one of the principal houses in the town, and
had his comforts carefully attended to. The minister of
the late Raja wished to make a private communication to
him, but he was informed before doing so that such commu-
nicationwould be forwarded to the Government of Bombay.
It appeared that Govind Row made a full confession of
the circumstances of the conspiracy, but that he after-
wards retracted it, and stated as his reason for doing so
that it had been extorted from him while he was con-
fined in a dungeon. The Hon. Member for Montrose
seemed to think that Mr. Hutt had been instrumental
in placing this person in a dungeon, for the express
purpose of extorting that confesssion from him.
—(Hear, hear.) But this was utterly at variance
with the truth.—(Hear, hear.) He sincerely trusted
that the Hon. Gentleman would abstain for the future
in making charges which were devoid of truth.
Mr. BANKES entirely repudiated the notion that
there was any privacy in the conversation which the
Hon. Member for Montrose had with the Hon. Member
for Birmingham. He spoke so loud that any one sitting
near the Hon. Member for Birmingham could not tail to
I hear the purport of his observations ; in fact it seemed
as it the Hon. Member for Montrose had come over
to the Hon. Member for Birmingham for the express
purpose of making the statement to him. When he
made use of the observations referred to, he (Mr. Bankes)
told him that he must be joking ; but he (Mr. Hume)
replied that it was no joke, and that he should bring it
before the House. He (Mr. Bankes), however, was no
party to the, course which the Hon. Gentleman had
adopted. He considered that the Hon. Member for Bir-
mingham's character required no vindication—(Hear,
hear)—he certainly did not deserve to be excluded
from those who had given, according to the Hon. Mem-
ber for Montrose, independent votes.
COMMUTATION OF PENSIONS.
Sir DE LACY EVANS here rose to inquire whe-
ther the twenty pensioners whose pensions had been
commuted in 1833, and who had performed certain ser-
vices in Canada, would be restored to the condition of
their comrades in Canada, who had received pensions,
whilst those who had been left in this country received
none. The consequence was, that upwards of one-half
of them were in the greatest misery. He wished, at the
same time, to recommend that Dr. Arnold's principle of
ventilation should be applied to barracks, which could be
done very economically.
Mr. B. OSBORNE considered that the Hon. and
Gallant Member ought not to have withdrawn the atten-
tion of the House from the subject which was before it.
He hoped the House would call upon the Hon. Memberoseto
for Birmingham and the Hon. Member for *
motiltr e breach
give them assurance that they would no com
h continued for
of the peace.—(Roars of laughter, whic
some minutes.)
Hon• Member for Mon-
Sir R. INGLIS said, if the s oner g
Hutt and r. po y
trose had considered Mr.
te to them; be ought to have
of the conduct
imptilisdt of the persons whom he ac-
included them in the u
ht not to have impugned the
cused; he certainly o
motives of those who had voted on the division.
much of the same
am
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—I
, Baronet who has ust his
opinion as
•s j 3„
so speak to gentlemen afterresumed they have
seat. I think,
voted, and to impute to them that they have given
their votes, not in accordance with their own opinion,
but in consequence of the opinions of the r connexions, is
a most unbecoming thing, and if it were done with
respect to the generality of the votes of this House the
greatest inconvenience could not fail to be the result •
but I do not think, for we have been long acquainted
with the language used by the Hon. Member, that he
really meant to impute any improper motives. The
Hon. Member possesses a charter of liberty, and has
never made himself a very strict master of the English
language.--(Roars of laughter.) I think he made the
statement without anybody, either within or without
the House, thinking about it.—(Continued laughter.)
I think the Hon. Member for Birmingham and the Hon.
Member for Gateshead (Mr. Hutt) must be both satis-
fied that their relations are not guilty of the charges
brought against them, and that there is not a person
either within or without this House who will pay the
slightest attention to the subject.—(Laughter and hneuarm.).
Mr. AGLIONBY had also witnessed fora
Hrea_go.ren _ern-
ber of years the conduct and manm r 0.. _ h
migt agree in the
ber for Montrose, and, although he
ocular remark of the Noble Lord, that the Hon. Me m.
j tier lia,l a chartered liberty, be attributed it to another
Cause. Noble Lord called me a chartered
Mr. HUME.—The
libertine.—(Loud and continued l aug iter.)
Mr. AGLIONBY admitted that he had fallen into
an error ; he had misunderstood the Noble Lord—
(Laughter)—but it" the Honourable Gentleman was
privileged, it was on account of his good humour,
and on account of his anxiety to assist any lion. Mam-
ba- to whom his experience would be useful, and
he was sure both his fanner awl present services had
created a debt of gratitude on the part of the country,
which never wood be pald.—(('Leers ) Ile believed
him wholly free from blame. He trusted the matter
would go no further.
Mr. HUME said on a former evening when he was
called by a .Member of the Cabinet a thief and a receiver
of stolen goods—(Cries of "Ohl oh l")--he took no