The Sun.
London, England, 1841-03-24 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY, MARCH 24, 1841

State to retain persons in this country who had been sen-
tenced
to transportation, but who were afflicted by some 1
obysical evil. He thought this power, which might be
operly exercised in certain cases, was now used to excess.
He could not concur with those who thought that trans-
portation should be altogether done away with ; but he
objected to the system of assignment, and he believed the
system might be further improved. The Hon. Member
•oncluded by expressing his concurrence in the mceisin of
nis Noble Friend.
Mr. HUME could not but approve of the system of
transportation, which, ho thOught, had been censured by
the Committee of the House whtch had eat upon the
subject upon individual cases, and eot upon general prin-
ciples. He did not think it advisable that commutation of
sentences should be generally adopted, or that the Secre-
tary of State should be invested with wholesale discretion
upon the subject. There could be no doubt of the evils of
letting offenders loose again upon society. It appeared to
him that the whole question of secondary punishment
should be brought under the consideration of the House;
and the law on the matter was now in a most anomalous
condition. He found that, on a late occasion, Mr. Jus-
tice Erskine had sentenced a poor man to fifteen years'
transportation for an assault, under mitigated
circum-
stances, upon a policeman, while another Judge bad in-
flicted no punishment whatever upon a Noble Lord and a
Captain in the army who had cut and beat a police-officer
almost to death.—. (" Hear, hear," from the Ministerial
benches.) He thought that the House was much indebted
to the Noble Lord who bad introduced the motion, and
he (Mr. Hume) only regretted that the Noble Lord had
not brought forward a measure which would embrace the
whole question.
Mr. LAW thought that the House was much indebted
to the Noble-Lord who had introduced the motion, as the
subject was one of very deep and general importance.
Upon an imperfect statement of facts, it was the highest
injustice to those entrusted with the administration of the
law to come to a hasty decision; and he knew that the
Learned Judge alluded to was the last man in the world to
pass an over severe sentence. It was extremely prejudi-
cial to the administration, that where the Judgc, after due
consideration had passed a sentence of transportation, that
sentence should be commuted by the Secretary of State.
Wherever an option was allowed to Judges, the sentence
of transportation was reserved for the worst cases. As far
as his own practice went, he had ascertained the punish-
ment of imprisonment was almost wholly ineffectual. Fro
quently on the very day of his liberation the convict again
committed another offence. Imprisonment was hopeless as
a means of reforming the criminal; therefore the House
would not be surprised that he concurred in opinion with
the Noble Lord. Transportation he thought much more
effectual, and although chargeable with many defects, it
was capable of improvement to an almost unlimited ex-
tent. If transportation did not afford the means of an
effectual secondary punishment, ho was perfectly at a loss
to devise any effectual means of secondary punishment.
Ho entirely concurred in the motion, at the same time
disclaiming any intention of casting any imputation on the
Noble Lord who had recently been at the head of the
Home-office, and he should not be doing his duty if he
limited himself to that disclaimer; during the whole time he
had been in communication with that office (a period of
nearly ten years), he was bound to state that more atten-
tion to every representation, greater desire to do justice
tempered with mercy, more indefatigable labour in inves-
tigation, he had never met with.—(Loud cheers.) He
bore the greatest respect for the Noble Lord, both in his
public and private capac'ty, and if he could entrust that
discretion to any one, he would entrust it to the Noble
Lord—(Cheers)—but believing, as he did, that the
punishment of imprisonment was ineffectual, he should sup-
port the motion.
Mr. FOX MAULE would confine himself strictly to
the question before the House. It was no secret to the
House or the country that the subject of transportation
had long occupied the public attention. A Committee
had been appointed to consider the system of transporta-
tion, and 111 their Report they had unanimously condemned
the system of assignment. The Noble Lord opposite
joined in that condemnation, but he had not stated what
system was to be substituted. That system being con-
demned, it became the duty of his Noble Friend to con-
sider how the views of that Committee were to be carried
out. He did not uphold the system of the hulks as a per-
fect system, but as necessary until a better one could be
devised.—_( Hear, hear, hoar.) The system of assign-
ment being given up, there was no employment
for convicts, except in public works. Norfolk
Island and Tasman'. Peninsula were assigned as the places
for transportation, but these could not absorb all the con-
victs, and it became necessary to devise some employment
for those criminals. His Noble Friend was not idle in de-
vising some means for secondary punishment, and he ap-
plied for a grant for the erection of an experimental prison.
With regard to transports, his Noble Friend determined to
adopt the system of the hulks as a substitute for seven
years' transportation, but ho (lid not take the House by
, surprise—he laid on the table a document detailing fully
the system he intended to adopt, and, since 1838, the hulk
system had been re-established. He must say that he
thought if the Noble Lord who had opened the debate had
made inquiries, he would have found that the character end
discipline of that system had been much improved, and
that it was not ebasgeable with all the defects he had
enunnel a:cd. Great attention was paid to the improvement
of the convicts, an .l many who had previously been un-
educated had there received an elementary education,
which had been of the utmost advantage to them. The
most difficult question was what was to become of the con-
vict after its imprisonment had expired.—(Haar, hear.)
It was true he might be reformed to a certain extent, but

here could be no-doubt there was an impression against
I in', and he coulu no: be received into society except as a
person on whom there was a stain. But if he were
transported tl e same stain followed him to the color,ie,

fur be believed that there the instant it was disc ,vered a
man had been in prison the scree stain attached to him.
But suppose, according to Sir Richard Burke's sugges-
tion, a new colony were founded, that would only get
rid of the evil for a time—the same thing would
recur there; and it was only by devising some means of
prsividing for the prisoner after the expiration of his yen-
tsnce th.t the evil could be obviated. He could not give
ti.e Home any hope that this Session, or even the next,
the Government would be prepared to present to Parlia-
ment any regu'ac system of secondary punishment. He
was afraid the Penitentiary of Millbank would not give any
correct idea of secondary punishments. He entirely agreed
with the Hon. Member, who bad said that the term of
punishment should rest with the Judge, and that no in-
ter'erence, should take place on the part of the Govern-
ment, unless special grounds existed for such interference.
But Kith resFect to the case which had been mentioned,
of a cor.v;et who had been liberated after a commutmion
of imprisonment, he wished to state that, by instructions
1,1,i;.:1 had been issued mthin the last two years, the con-
victs underwent two years of certain punishment, which was
followed by a certaia number of musters; and if the
l.r ter were not sati*factory, Rie term was not
s',artened. WWI regard to Vie question of expense he
believed the labour [er formed had realized nearly as much
ai the coat of maintenance. 'rho individual referred to
is Dorsets.ir4 had undergone the proba•ion, and was re-
leased at the end of three years and a-haltin consequence
of the satisfactory manner in which be had conducted him-

seq.. lie would not detain the House longer, Cu; ho would
express a hope that the Judges would soon be enabled to
pron,unce a more definite sentence, and he (Mr. F.
Niaule) would he happy to assist in hastening that period.
The House must feel grateful to the Noble Lord fcr
bringing forward a subject in which the public were so
deeply interested. He had the satisfaction of statirg to
the House that the Noble Lord, the Secretary for the
Colonies, had in contemplation a Bill which would take

..—.—
from the Secretary of State the power of commuting the
sentence of transportation.—(Hear, beer.)
Mr. ESTCOURT expressed his satisfaction at the an.

nouncement that the system of commutation was under the
considersti .n of the Government, and that a Bill would be
brought forward for the purpose of remedying the
evil. The commutation always led, to a bviicf that t..v.;ur
had been shown to the criminal.

Lord HO W ICK considered the system of punishment
in the hulks radically vh ices, and wished to see a better
cue substituted. But be trusted the House would not
adopt a resolution which would, being regarded as a con-
demnation of that mitigated system, have the effect of reviv_
systeming of trauFportation. His Noble Friend
theQ
ho h olidd
introduced this motion had not &tempted to de-
fend the system ci assignment. That system was of a most
appalling nature. It was proved in Committee, by statis-
tical facts, that the coloui,:ts exhibited a degree of crime
and demoraFsation of which there was no example. It
was proved before the Committee that the feeling of the
people was in favour of the criminal, and against the free
settler. He hoped the great number of free settlers which
had been sent out had altered that most pernicious state of
thing;. If assignment was to be given up, and transpor-
ts ion continued, the convicts must have been kept at work
under Government inspectors, so that it was slavery still.
In the colony they could not get officers amongst the free
men, and the expense was enormous, so that had the
system of 'transportation been continue), they must have
been kept to forced labour under persons who were them-
selves convicts. The Committee on Transportation re-
commended-that persons after undergoing their sentence in
this country, should be afforded the means of going to the
colonies, but they were very decidedly of opinion that all
who were convicted of crime should not be allowed to herd
together, thereby only making bad worse. He hoped that
the experiments on secondary punishments would be con-
tinued ; but, at all events, be hoped that transportation to
the Australias would not be allowed to be revived. He
hoped the House would .not concur in the views of the
Noble Lord.
replied, and expressed his determination
to
upon his motion.
Strangers were
then ordered to withdraw, and the House
LdiovriddeMthAeHH°oNuse
divided— 49
For the motion
28
Against it
—2l
Majority for the motion
PROPERTY TAX.

- -
-- -
Mr. SC HOLE FIELD then rose to bring forward his
motion, which, as it bad been already placed on the order
paper, must be known to Hon Members. His object was
to move the following Resolution : —That the assessment
of all property, real and personal, within the United King-
dom, would be a fit and proper substitute for Puch of the
Taxes of Excise and Customs as press most heavily on the
middle and industrious classes; and that such alteration in
the mode of raising the public revenue would be calculated,
i 4 a high degree, to enhance the value of all property, par-
ticularly, by 1, ailing to the fuller development of the copious
siiurces of wealth in this kingdom and its vast dependencies.
=The Hop. Member contended that the present system of
taxation pressed unjustly upon the poor, who paid as
much tax upon all the necessaries of life as the richest
"portion of the community. He then proceeded to specify
soma of the evils which result to the poorer classes from
this system. One effect of it was to introduce a sort of
civil war between debtor and creditor. The poverty under
which the poor laboured tended greatly to increase crime.
Scarcely a paper could be opened which did not contain an
account of suicide ; and this was one of the many evil re-
sults of an unjust system of taxation. The lion. Member
then read a variety of documents in support of these views.
The Hon. Member concluded by reading his motion.
Mr. MUNTZ seconded the motion, The taxes 0 this

country were principally paid by the humbler classes, and
that was the source of the grievances under which they
laboured. The richer portion of the population did not,
he believed, pay one-third of the burdens of the nation.
It is the rich who make the laws, and it was to that cir-
cumstance he attributed the injustice of the present state
of things. Ho believed that the motion before the House
would tend to diminish the evils be complained of, and
he should therefore cheerfully support it.
Mr. E. TURNER thought it was a lamentable thing
that when motions of this nature were brought forward the
great Conservative party were not to be found in their places,
(there were six Members on the opposition beaches) and
that there was scarcely a fuller attendance on the benches
on which he sat. It was a proof that the people were not
properly represented, when Members of that House were
so inattentive to questions affecting the welfare of the
people.
Mr. WILLIAMS said the great burden of taxation
was thrown upon the lower and middle classes, the tax
upon spirits, malt, and hops, amounted to thirteen millions
and upwards, and was paid exclusively by the middle and
lower classes. The taxes on sugar, tea, and coffee were
levied by weight so that the poor man paid the same tax
for the coarser article that the rich man did for the best.
Almost all duties were levied by weight and measure,
so that the tax on the poor man was from fifty
to a hundred per cent. greater than the tax on the rich man.
There was the same inequality in the stamp duties, the
window-tax, and in every other object of taxation. The
rich were suffered to escape comparatively free, and the
poor and middle class were taxed. Out of forty-three
millions of taxation only five millions was laid on articles
used by the rich. if they wished to keep their manufac-
tures from being taken from them by more lightly taxed
countries, they must revise their system of taxation. A
repeal of the Corn-laws would be a great relief, but that
alone would not be sufficient to enable the working classes
of this country to compete with foreigners. At least one
half the poor man's wages was taken from him
by the tax-gather. How could the working classes
compete in manufactures with the United States
and Switzerland while this was the case? He
did not expect that anything which might be said
either by himself or by the Right Hon. Gentleman, the
Member for Birmingham, would at that time have any
effect upon the House ; but they would soon be compelled by
a pressure from without, to alter the present system. It
was this system which caused the ill-feeling and discon-
tent which prevailed amongst the poor.
Mr. FIE LDEN supported the motion. Nothing
could show more forcibly how little confidence could be
placed in that House by the people of this country, than
the thin state of the House at that time.—(Hear, hear.)
He bad no doubt it weuld produce a great effect out
of doors.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
the state of the House was in his opinion to be attributed
to a dislike of the subject. He considered, as no doubt
many Hon. Members had done, that the motion was not
one which, in its present state, could be entertained by the
House. If the resolution were adopted the whole finances
of the country would, until that resolution came into ope
ration, be thrown into the utmost confusion and the whole
trade of the country would be at a stand still. The Hon.
Member was perfectly at liberty to propose a resolution,
establishing a property tax ; but if that was his intention
he should state principally what it was that he
proposed. It was some time since there had been a pro-
perty tax, but when there was one in existence it was
denounced in the strongest language ; and those who
made the strongest objections to it were persons engaged
in the pursuits of commerce and manufacture. The duties
on many articles had been totally repealed during the last
ten years, and many others had been reduced. They were
not at present in a state to enable them to hold cut hopes
of a present reduction ; but as his Hon. Friend had bad
an opportunity of Frisking his speech, he trusted he would
not press the resolution of which he had given notice; he
had no objection to a property tax or any other tax—be
was the last man in the world to complain of any one sing-
ing the praises of taxation, lout as the resolution could not
be carried out practically, he would move the previous
question.
Mr. lIUME said his Hon. Friend the Member for
Birmingham had scarcely done justice to the subject he
had undertaken, or the Hon. Gentleman would not have
treated it in so glib a manner. Take the taxation at
fifty millions—it was demonstrable that the poor paid 74
per cent., and the rich only 26 per cent. Property was
made the basis cf representation, yet they voted that pro-
perty should be exempted from taxation. If the House
carried the resolution they would affirm the principle that
all should pay equally to the burdens of the country ac-
cording to their property.or income. At present the less a
man's income was, the greater proportion of taxes he
paid. If the House was resolved to revise the system of
taxation they ought to be pr:•pared to lay the burden upon
those who were best able to beer it. His Hon. Friend
the Member for Birmingham had stated that for the last
50 years there had not been such distress as now existed
in that town. In Leeds, Sheffield, and the other la-ge
manufacturing t)wns, the position of the working classes
was equally deplorable. Under such circumstances it be-
hoved the Chancellor cf the Exchequer to take the subject
into his serious consideration. It was hard that individuals
who were walling to work and drive poverty from the doer,
were prevaited obtaining employment by the mischievous
ie)trictions at present in force. It appeared to him that
the Government ought to be compelled to take off the re-
strictions pressing upon the industry of the country. Ile
feared they would net interfere until that House took up the
subject, or until the voice of the people compelled them to
take st-ong and immediate measures to relieve the distress
of the working classes.—(Hear, hear.) On V.e.:e ground=,
and being satisfied that the present system of taxation was
unjust and unequal, he should support the motion of his
Hon. Friend.

Mr. GO UL BURN confessei that he required stroeger
arguments than those brought forward by the Hen. Mover
of the resolution, or those Hon. Members who had suc-
ceeded him, before ho could give his assent to it. There
was no man who knew how that system of taxation was
carriei on in that country who must not be awere of the
great inconvenience and danger which would result from
unsetling, and effecting so total and sweeping a change in
that system. He believed such a step would, without ef-
fecting the objects which the Hon. Mover had in view,
throw the financial and commercial affairs of the country
into inextricable confusion.--( Hear, hear.) He believed
the Hon. Member had not very accurately stated the pro-
portionate amount of taxation paid by the higher and hum-
bler classes of society. Taxation could not be measured by
the mere amount paid by each individual to the tax-cel-
lector. There were numerous branches of indirect
tataion which the wealthier classes contributed largely
to, and which the lion. Gentleman had not taken into
his calculation. He did not conceive it possible that the
House could consent to such a motion as that under con-
sideration—a
motion of so unusual and partial a natere.
Mr. WA KL EY did not think with his Hoe. Friend
the Member fir Kilkenny, that the motion, how ever good
in itself; would convince the labouring classes that the
Members of that House were disposed to inquire into the
to tl state of their sufferings, and apply to them a proper
remedy. The Right Hen. Gentleman, the Chancellor of
the Ex: hequer, wishe Ito lead his Hon. Friend, the intro-
ducer of the motion, to suppose, that because he had en-
tered into a statement on the subject of taxation, he ought
after that to withdraw his motion. In that ca che ( Mr.
Waklev, should say that his Hen. Friend was one of small
expeclationa.—(A laugh.) It appeared that there was
no intention to change the present condition of things.
The state of the House showed him thee insen-
sibility felt by the majority of its Members on •questions
of the highest importance. He looked around him for
Noble and testy Lords, but he looked in vain ; he would
not, however, say what might be the nature of the loss if
they never returned again.--(A laugh.) Ho did not see
the leaders of either of the great parties present on the oc.
casion, and he certainly very much doubted whether any-
thing could be expected from such an Assembly.
Colonel SIBTHORP was always surprised to hear
f-om the Hon. Member such a speech as that which he
had just delivered. The Hen. Gentleman did not evi-
dently approve of the conduct of Ministers, and yet, on
all important occasions, he invariably gave them Lis sup-
port. lie (Colonel Sibthorp) then saw but one member
of the Ministry present (the Chancellor of the Exchequer)
—a solitary outcast—while his colleagues were enjoying
the luxuries of life elsewhere.—(A laugh.) But why did
the Hon. Member for Finebury support such tmen ?
Tell your company, and one can tell who you are—( Laugh.
ter)—was a proverb which he would apply on the occasion.
He hoped the Honourable Gentleman would always de-
claim as eloquently agaiust her Majesty's Govern
mcnt in the House as ho frequently did out. Again he
asked, why did he sit there ?—(A laugh.) With regard
to tho question before the lietve be denied that the agri-
cultural interest did not bear its fair share of taxation.
Under all the circumstances he thought he should best
discharge his duty by voting against the motion.
Mr. MARK PHILIPS would advise his friend to
withdraw his motion, and to bring forward the question
when they went into Committee on the Budget. He had
no wish to get rid of it, but was anxious it should be de-
bated in a full House. He had attended much to the
subject, and had always been of opinion that the present
system pressed tao much on the industry, and too little on
the property of the olountry. In 1834 when Lcrd Al-
thorp said that if the malt-tax were repealed a property
tax must be imposed, he had placed his opinion on re-
cord by voting fur the repeal of the malt tax. He thought
the imposition cf a property tax would make a fair ad-
justment of the burdens of the country. He should vote
with his Hon. Friend if he wont to a division, but he ad-
vised him to withdraw his motion.

General JOiiiiSTol4would not advise his lion.
Friend to withdraw his motion, but to divide by all means.
Mr. SC HOLEFIELD said he was greatly puzzled,
among the multitudeofeouns!llors, to know what to do.
-(Loud cries of " Divide, dlvide.") Then he most cer-
tainly would divide.
Strangers were the n
i ordered to withdraw, and the
House divided, when tiier
For the Resolution appeared--
against the resolution... 27
Against it
Mr. JAS. MajoritySTEWART moved for leave to bring in a
intattreustthfeor
pßoirltl toy, h foalcdili
charitable purposes.
transferoi;ar of real and personal pro-
The ATTORNEY_GE
Leave was then given to bring RA L supported the motion.
thoefpMrobr.ibitio of dog-carts.
EAST,in the Bill.
leave was given to
i nt hoe
Billm o tfioorn
UME moved for certain returns relating to
Savings' Bankr.— Agreed to.
bring in
Mr. G. W. HOPE moved that the H
resolve itself into a Committee House should, on to-
morrow, and ttee of the whole House,
to make provision for salaries allowances to persons to
be employed in carrying into effect the provisions . .
of the
Copyhold and Customary Tenures Bill.
Sir R. H. INGLIS objected to a motion of such im.
portance on so short a notice. The Bill had bees read
second time last night, but in an unusually thin Hous a
e
Mr. G. W. HOPE said that his only wish was to mak°. the
Bill complete, which had come down from the House of
Lords in an imperfect state. He intended that the whole
measure should be considered afterwards fully in detail.
When it was considered that the Bill had been be fore Par-
liament for two or three sessions, and had been discussed
for some months in the House of Lords, and referred there

to a Select Committee, he could not see how it could be
complained that the country had been taken by surprise.
Mr. GO ULBURN said if blame attached to any one
it was to his Right Hon. Friend and himself, who had
been consulted by the Hon. Gentleman on the occasion.
After a few words from Mr. P. HOWARD, the motion
was agreed to.
The other Orders of the day were then disposed of, and
the House Adjourned at a Quarter after Twelve o'Clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS, MARCH 23.

The Earl of SHAFTESBURY took his seat on the Wool..
sack at Fire o'Clock. __

The Bishop of LINCOLN presented petitions from
Hertfordshire, against any public grant to the College of
Maynooth, and against idolatrous worship in India.
The Earl of CLARENDON presented a petittion,
praying for an alteration in the existing Corn-laws.
The Marquis of DOWNSHIRE presented petitions
from parishes in Antrim, Tyrone, Derry, and Monaghan,
praying for the abolition of Church patronage in Scotland.
Lord S TRAFFORD presented a petition from Tyrone
against the intrusion of ministers in the Church of Scot-
land.
On the motion of Viscount DUNCANNON, the
Mutiny Bill, and the Marine Mutiny Bill, were read a
third time and passed.

TITHE COMPOSITION (IRELAND).
Viscount DUNGANNON moved the further considera
tion of the Report of the Tithe Composition (Ireland) Bill.
After a few observations from Lord DUNCANNON
and Earl WICKLOW, the amendments to the clause were
agreed to, and the Bill passed.
Lord DUNC ANN ON laid on the table certain corres.
pondence relative to the slave-trade.
TOLLS ON THE METROPOLITAN BRIDGES.
Lord REDESDA LE presented a petition from the in-
habitants of the Strand and its vicinity, praying the House
to adopt some means, by a duty on coals or otherwise, for
the purpose of extinguishing the tolls upon Southwark,
Waterloo, and Vauxhall Bridges.
Lord ROSEBERY presented a petition for the
abolition of Church patronage. The Noble Lord also
presented a petition from the Baptist Communion Church
in the borough of Cupar, county of Fife, imploring their
Lordships to take efficient measures for the abolition of
idolatry in India.
DRAINAGE OF BUILDINGS BILL.

The Marquis of NORMANBY presented a petition
from the inhabitants of All saints, at Mile End New
Town, and adjacent parts, signed by 2,000 persons, in fa-
vour of the Drainage of Buildings Bill. The petitioners
expressed their gratitude for the care taken with respect
to their religious and moral education, but stated that much
of the value of that care would be diminished if sufficient
attention were not paid to the condition of their health.
BOROUGH IMPROVEMENT BILL.

The NOBLE MARQUIS then moved the second reading
of the Borough Improvement Bill, which gave power,
under special circumstances, to corporate bodies to make
improvements out of the corporate funds as was necessary
for the health of towns. He would move that it be re-
ferred to the Committee on the Drainage of Buildings
Bill, as ho wished to have the opinion of that Committee
on it. _ _

The Bill was then read a second time and referred to
the above Committee.
A message from the Commons brought up the Glasgow,
Paisley, and Greenook Railway Bill, which was read a
first time. _

who were opposed to these laws. On the one hand, if I
anything could tend to damp the ardour of those engagel
in the repeal of the Corn-laws, it would be telling them
they had to contend for so great a sum as 100,000,0001.,
while, on the other hand, nothing would tend to strengthenthe opposition to the repeal so much as telling the agri-
cultural interest that they had to contend for a prize equal
to that sum. His Noble Friend had also adverted to the
question of the sugar duties. Upon that subject the ex-
travagance had been equally great ; for it had been said
that this was the greatest consuming sugar country on the
face of the earth, and that financial regulations had limited
and abridged the comforts of the population in the con-
sumption of sugar to a degree that was not to
be found in Austria or Russia. Nothing could be
more extravagant or absurd than all these statements.
He had stated these things, in order that parties might cau-
tiously weigh and consider the subject, because, in the
event of their calculations not being confirmed, they would
be obliged to have recourse to a property tax or some
similar measure, in order to make good the enormous defi-
ciency of the revenue which would occur. He believed
that the principles laid down in the Report would be most
injurious, if generally adopted ; and at the same time he
was convinced that the principles of free trade, as they
were termed, were those upon which their great commer-
cial country could mainly rely for the extension of its
trade. He should decidedly object to the principles in
that Report being generally adopted.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH expressed his great satis-
faction at the measure that had been introduced by the
Noble Marquis. It had come sooner than he expected,
but not sooner than he desired.—( Hear.) It was a nice•
sure of justice to India, but not a measure of injustice to
the West India Colonies. It would tend materially, in his
opinion, to reduce the price of sugar, which was extremely
high at present, and ho did not think it would be desirable
to introduce any measure with regard to the intro-
duction of foreign sugar at a lower duty, until they had
ascertained what would be the working of the present
Bill. He believed it would be found eventually to obviate
the necessity of any legislative measure as regarded the
introduction of foreign sugar. He would now call the
attention of the Noble Marquis to the Bill itself, and it
appeared to him that the 3d clause of that Bill was
founded upon error. It was supposed by some of the wit-
nesses examined before the Committee that the Local
Act passed by the Indian Government for the prohibition
of foreign sugar into the British settlements of India
would not be found practically to effect that object, and
from the wording of the clause any party who went before
the Privy Council and declared that that Local Act was
inoperative might prevent the introduction of rum, the
produce of the East Indies, from being imported into that
country. Now, he hoped the clause would be so amended
as to prevent the object of the Government being defeated
in that way. There were other details, but not of any
very great importance, which could be better referred to
when the Bill was in Committee.

The Marquis of LANSDO WNE had no hesitation in
stating that the interpretation of the clause to which the
Noble Baron had referred was that which ho wished to
have attached to it, and if any verbal alteration was neces-
sary to make that more distinct he had no objection to
adopt it. Ho certainly never meant that the Privy Council
should have the power of putting a veto upon the inten-
tions of the Government, with respect to the introduction
of Eaat India sum. All the Privy Council could require
was that it should be proved to their satisfaction that the
prohibition of the importation of foreign sugar had been
legally carried into effect.
The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be
committed on Friday.
POOR-LAWS (IRELAND).

The Marquis of NOR MANBY said Mr. Phelan was
in attendance, if any Noble Lord wished to have him ex-
amined further.

The Duke of WELLINGTON wished to know if the
Noble Marquis had any objection to the production of the
correspondence that had taken place relative to the ap-
pointment of Richard Egan as returning officer for the
Bandon Union.

The Marquis of NORMANBY had no objection to the
motion. He wished to state, further, that Mr. Phelan
would remain in town for a few days ; if any Noble Lord
wished to put any further questions to him, he should be
in att,sndanee on Friday.
The House then adjourned till Thursday.

FROM LAST NIGHT'S GAZETTE

WHITEHALL, 111A.Rcii 22, 1841.

Her Majesty has been pleased to direct letters patent to be
passed under the Great Seal, granting the dignity of a Knight
of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and- Ireland unto
Randolph Isham Routh. Esq., Commissary-General to her
Majesty's Forces in Canada.