The Sun.
London, England, 1847-06-25 00:00:00

Right Hon. Gentleman the Chief Railway Commissioner.
The third reading was accordingly adjourned till
Monday next, for the purpose of being postponed till
next session.
CHESTER AND HOLYHEAD RAILWAY (EX-
TENSION AT HOLYHEAD).
The third reading of this Bill was opposed by Mr.
WILLIAMS, who considered it one of the most shame-
less jobs that had ever been perpetrated, and
Mr. HUME, who moved that the Bill be read a third
time that day six months.
After a few words from Mr. BROWNE, which were
inaudible,
Captain HARRIS said that he would take it upon
himself to say that that harbour could never become one
of refuge. He had arrived at that conclusion from a
careful perusal of the evidence taken before the Com-
mittee.

Mr. ROEBUCK wished to ask the Right Honourable
Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whether
the expenses likely to arise from the maintenance of
the harbour had been calculated in his budget, or whe-
ther it had been omitted altogether, and also whether
in the present state of the finances, it was intended to
disburse any further sums on account of it.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
the question was one of last year. It had been agreed
that a harbour should be constructed at Holyhead ; all,
therefore, which they had to consider, was whether the
expenses could be covered by the vote which was granted
last year for this purpose.
Mr. WILLIAMS said it was just as he expected.
No provision had been made by the Right Hon. Gentle-
man in his budget.
Mr. MUNTZ thought that the question before the
Home was, whether if they passed this Bill the House
would not become bound to make the harbour at all
costs? That was the question, and he believed it rightly
stated the effect of their passing the Bill.
After a few words from Lord SANDON, strangers
were ordered to withdraw, and the House divided, when
there appeared—
For the third reading. 9O
Against it
Majority
The Bill was then read a third time and passed.
SUPERANNUATION FUND.
Colonel THOMAS WOOD presented a petition in
favour of an extended application of this fund.
POOR-LAW ADMINISTRATION BILL.
Mr. BANKES gave notice that, in Committee, he
would propose several amendments in this Bill.
FRAUD IN THE SALE OF BREAD.
The HON. MEMBER also gave notice of his intention
to bring in a Bill for the prevention of fraud in the sale
of bread, by the more effectual detection of offenders.
PUBLIC WORKS IN IRELAND.
Mr. GEORGE A. HAMILTON asked the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, whether the circular of the
Board of Works, recently issued, in which it is stated,
" that all works commenced under the Act 9 and 10
c. 107, and for which presentments have been ob-
tained at extraordinary sessions (whether roads, bridges,
opening watercourses, thorough drainage, &c.) shall be
finally discontinued on or before the 15th of August
next," is intended to apply to works of a reproduc-
tive character and permanent utility undertaken
by private individuals under Mr. Labouchere's letter,
and the undertakings for which were ratified, and the
amount made chargeable upon the lands by the Act of
the present session, 10 Vic., c. 10; and if so, in cases
where any such works shall be in an unfinished state on
the 15th of August, whether the balance of the sum so
chargeable will be advanced to the persons liable, to
enable them to complete the works themselves; or if
nut completed under the provisions of the Act, in what
manner it is proposed that the money expended upon
works so left unfinished on the 15th of August is to be
apportioned between the owner and occupier.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that there were no public works in Ireland which would
not be concluded at the end of July. But if there were
private works, and if persons were desirous of complet-
ing the works, there was the Land Improvement Act,
passed this session, under the provisions of which they
could get advances of money to complete these works.
This answer, he apprehended, would apply to all the
Hon. Member's questions.
RAILWAY ACCIDENTS.
Mr. RICE wished to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman
the Chief Commissioner for Railways whether the
Commissioners had adopted any means to protect the
public on railways; and if so, what steps had been taken
in reference to the late accidents.
Mr. STRUTT said, by an Act of Parliament the
companies were obliged to give the Commissioners
notice of any accidents within forty-eight hours after
they occurred. The Commissioners then might
call upon these companies for information in regard
to the accident, or they might send down their
own officers to investigate the occurrence on the spot
and then to adopt such arrangement as they might think
proper to prevent the recurrence of accidents in
future. Of late there had been three accidents,
at Dee Bridge, at Wolverton-station, and on the
Brighton and Chichester. In regard to the first, the
Commissioners sent down Captain Symonds, and an emi-
nent engineer, Mr. Walker, along with him, who drew up
a very able report, which was laid before the grand jury.
The conclusion which these gentlemen came to was,
that additional experiments were necessary to test
the strength of cast iron to be used on railways. A
commission, consisting of scientific and practical men,
was appointed to investigate this subject ; and the com-
missioners bad written to all companies requiring
those who had cast iron bridges on their line
to send in information to that effect, and what were
the various dimensions; and also, if any such bridge was
not judged sufficiently strong, requiring them to
strengthen it temporarily, and, until that was done, to run
the trains across it at a slow and deliberate pace.
With respect to the accident at the Wolverton station,
which arose from the neglect of a servant employed by
the company, Captain Symonds was sent down to
investigate all the circumstances of the case. A report
was made, in which the directors of the North-Western
Company fully concurred. With respect to the third
accident, that on the Chichester line, which arose from
one of the engines getting off the rail, Captain Cod-
dington was sent—cursorily sent—down to the spot to
investigate into the matter. The attention of the com-
missioners had been called to that accident, and finding
that great alarm existed on the subject, and that an
opinion prevailed that it was not safe to travel by this
line, it was thought right to institute an inquiry with re-
spect to the working of that line, as well as lines generally
throughout the country. The investigation was then in
progress, but as that inquiry had not terminated, and as
the coroners inquest was not over the result could not
yet be communicated. Other accidents had occupied
the attention of the Commissioners, who were most
anxious to fulfil their duty.
Mr. STRUTT, in reply to a question from Sir J.
Duckworth, said that the regulations to which he re-
ferred were confined to the Brighton and Chichester line.
EXHIBITIONS—WESTMINSTER HALL.
Mr. S. WORTLEY said that he wished to put a ques-
tion to the Noble Lord at the head of the Woods and
Forests. At present the interior of Westminster Hall
was disfigured by a wooden erection. He would like to
know when that erection would be removed ?

Lord MORPETH said that it was-not Intended to
have any further exhibitions beyond that which opened
next week. When that exhibition was closed the wood
work would be removed.
WELLINGTON STATUE.
Lord G. BENTINCK said that he wished to know
from the Noble Lord whether there would be any objec-
tion to lay on the table of the House the further
.cor-
respondence that had passed between the Committee
on
the Wellington memorial and the Government before
the House was asked to grant the ultimate vote of 1,000/.
Lord MORPETH said there could be no objection to
lay that correspondence on the table.
HEALTH OF TOWNS BILL.
Mr. ROEBUCK wished to know whether, as the
Health of Towns Bill was on the paper for Thursday
next, it was really intended to bring it on as a measure
to be pressed that session, or whether it was the inten-
tion of the Government to have it Struttified ?—(A laugh.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that it was the intention of the Government to bring on
the Bill.

Mr. WAKLEY said all that he knew was, that the
evidence had been laid on the table of the House, though
what became of it was not for him to say, and he
►rusted that as the evidence had been presented to the
House that the proper parties would not object to its
production.

Mr. M. GIBSON would very readily consent to its
production.

to join the London and South Western Railway near
Lambeth) Bill—Swansea Valley Railway Bill—Dundee
and Perth Railway (Alteration tied Extension. and
Inchture, Polgavie, and Inehmichnel Braricles) Bill--
Lowestoft Railway and Harbour (Alteration near Reed-
ham) Bill—Great Southern and Western Railway Ex-
tension (Portarlington to Tullamore) Bill—Dublin and
Drogheda Railway (Branch from Navan to Bella) Bill--
Gla,gow, Barrhead, and Neilston Direct, and Glasgow
Southern Terminal Railways Amalgamation Bill--
Glasgow, Barrhead, and Neilston Direct Railway Bill,
with Amendments ;—Macduff Harbour Improvement
Bill, with an Amendment.
POOR-LAW AMENDMENT.
Lord SANDON moved the order of the day for the
third reading of this Bill, when,
Mr. WAKr,EY begged to say, that whenever the dis-
cussion on this Bill came on, he should feel it his duty
to move that it be read this day three months.
POOR-LAW ADMINISTRATION BILL.
On the order of the day for the third reading of the
Poor-law Administration Bill being read,
Mr. WAKLEY rose and said that, such wll5 his/
objection to the present Bill, that it war his intention to
divide the House upon his motion that it be read this
day three months. He had given notice of that motion
already, and, he would say, a more unconstitutional and
cruel Bill could not be introduced into the House. /1"e
believed, also, that its operation would be attended with
the most disastrous consequences to the interests of the
poor and the character of the Legislature. Be was ct.
the)
opinion that Hon. Members had been confiding in
Legislature without looking at the provisions of the
Bill. When it was first introduced they were desired to
wait until they should see what would be done with it in
Committee. But now it had gone through Committee,
and it was as objectionable now as it was in the first
instance, not one of the obnoxious clauses had been re:
pealed. It was still as tyrannical and as cruel
a law as ever disgraced the statute book. Ino.e
Bill was nothing more than an attempt `
maintain the poor-law enactment and the
Poor-
law Commissioners, whose conduct had beta con-
demned by all parties except the Ministers. He did not
believe that it was possible that under this the poor could
obtain justice from that House. The measure was one
of the most unfortunate propositions that could have
been made to that assembly. The poor-law was to have
diminished crime, to decrease the expenditure falling
upon the parish, and remove many of the existing 0444,
and he asked the House had it accomplished any one
those objects? The facts when ascertained show that
seven-eighths of the relief is administered out of doors.
The Act of 1834 has entirely failed. Had the details
now existing been foreseen in that year as the effeets„ji
the Bill then proposed, all England to a man, we--
have risen against it. Yet all these details were to be
sanctioned by the Bill now on the table. Why, in tee
old days of the Tory and Whig, and the unreforme
Parliament, they would never have tolerated such a Bill'
This Bill proposed that the president of the poordavi
board should have a seat in that House as well as Or
secretary. Under this regulation, the solicitor, dal',
and other officers of a board of guardians went;
do all in their power to obtain political poe:e4
and the effect of that would be, that attentio
would be withdrawn from their legitimate function
that of relieving the poor, and directed to purposes slte_,
gether extraneous. It was said that the law worked
rde
markably well, but the fact was that the law was 111: d
a dead letter, and then it was expected that it aior
the
remarkably well. In the Andover Union t")
poor were literally starved.—(Cries of " Rear, hear.he
thrown
no f
to running
the
hogs,aw
It had been proved that the children had been in t
a poor Nv°
had to carry the corpse of her child under her arm,,
through the town of Andover, to the church-yard. He
aayndw,itihn
oneand ienasttianngeet,he potato peel
was sorry to hear that the Noble Lord had stated that
CheomwmasispsrioenpairnedthtoatdeHfeonndset,hefocroinfduthcet
there
ef
was
st .an-
which was more odious thau another to men, ardewtil'llliai
they were more anxious to avoid, it was the poor-
Commission. The conduct of that body was
defensible ; and yet there were manY ruler-
men in that House who, to the misery 1111„.aa it•
tification of the poor, were prepared to uphold
the Government should decide against a liberal al able
ance what would be their position—would they 9„edillet
to stand against the cry made against them. ii-thea,
them take the converse of the propositions. Why,
nips:
they would have all those poor-law guardians akihy
them who were anxious to grind down the poor. of
should there not be a poor-law court, with a ,tl/,‘„-nate
high character presiding over it, and a public aur"-,,,
maintained to plead the cause of oppressed porer'ysta,
The present system was working badly for the interLor.
of the people, and was dividing the rich from the P..° to
The unfortunates who had to apply for relief, owinald
the enormous extent of the union, had often to tr9._..
sent
eon;
dett forty r
,gtaoi nghdaernaefitrmi fifty
remedy
mNiolesattbeemfpirte
inthetyhecopurledseonbtr 1.l :rraes.
ysiztehisof detfhecet and contract
art,ahnenheArer_iil)
He objected to the workhouse test, in the m
which it was carried out ; he was of opinion that
destitute person in the kingdom had a right to relieltne
(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member then referred t° !o
.
documents, and said that it was not too late to do rtth •
$
The Government could abandon the present Bill with
good grace, in a much better manner than they au
6r
doned the Railway Bill, for in that case the public tl.e:,
quired some such measure. He had conversed eon-
practical practical men, and they were all unanimous in the, 90.,
demnation of this Bill,, and quoted the opinions or
that it
veral, to show that it was a dangerous Bill, and h. no
would sooner or later end in a revolution, and tthile
monarchy would ever be able to hold office long
w
it was in operation. Believing that the measure
unjust and an impolitic one, and that it would er-fr,ird
most injuriously, he would move that it be read a t—
time that day three months. toed
Mr. FIELDEN, who was very inaudible, was unders
to say that he could not support a Ministry who With
introduce such a Bill, and he should, therefore, vote with
Waapsate
the Hon. Member for Finsbury.
broug.ht
Mr. FERRAND said that there was not a stateinent
made by Lord Althorp when the law was first
forward but had been violated by the Poor-law Comm.
sioners. When the reports of the Poor-law
w_
Commis-
sioners were made, on which the new poor-law
.s'
evidence in favour of the 43d of Elisabeth was suppressed.o
founded, he asserted that a considerable portion of tna
Who, he would ask, were they who defended the 1'
he Member for
law Commissioners in that House?
ners ; but
London, defended the Poor-law Commiasiorery
Wolverhampton, and the Noble Lord, Tthe
much
there was a circumstance which detracted .Member for
were related
and the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton,tory for
to one of the Commissioners. The late Secret
he did
but from that defence, which was, that both th"'Coble Lord
Hon.
the Home Department also defended them,
not attach much weight to his defence, as
Member for Dorchester had denied all acquaintance with
the transactions of the Commissioners at
.1 _
time they occurred, and now he said that ec
was cognizant of them, and approved of
The Right Hon. Baronet also said in the course ot IT!
t.hettn,...
speech, that the Hon. Member for Weymouth bad made
an ample apology to him, in reference to certain state-
ments. Now he (Mr. Ferrand) wished the Right Hon!
Baronet would act in a similar manner towards him, and
apologise for the many erroneous statements which he
had made with regard to him. lie had not, however,
acted in that honourable and gentlemenly manner,
but said, " I had appealed to Caesar, and to Caesar
should go." (Laughter.) Now, the Right Hon.
Baronet stated on the 28th of January last, that in siX
weeks from that time the trial should take place; but
hasodl,iehiotowre,vtehra,t rLecoeridveDdeanninoatniceb ad s
i hot
it was now the 24th of June, and nothing had been
rt
dtiomnoe
aygeot.fromHehis
mated that the trial could not come on before Decembernber
or February next. Such, therefore, was the position in
which he now stood, and all he could do was to
complain of the postponing and procrastination which
had taken place. The Noble Lord at the head of the
Government stated on a former occasion that be
(Mr.
Ferrand) had made statements to the House which were,
utterly unfounded. Now, he denied having done so, and
he was prepared to stand by anything
he had said.
What statement had he ever made that had been refuted?
When he called upon the Noble Lord at the time he
made such an assertion to name one he could not do it
till he was prompted by the Hon. Gentleman the Mon'
H attempted, P bet for Wolverhampton. e then attem arr°t.
like, to repeat the words again, but he could not do it:
He at length, however, said that he (Mr. Ferrand) boa
stated that the Poor-law Commissioners delighted in
murdering children. Now he (Mr. Ferrand) dented that
he had ever said any such thing. He never said so; an.",
he now called upon the Government to tell the House !I
that was the way in which they ought to have acted.
He would ask them if they were now going to pas s
a law without giving some guarantee that the agedsucil
and
infirm of this country would be protected from the
cruelties which had been hitherto practised upon them.
He would ask the Noble Lord if he was aware that there
were tens of thousands of the aged and infirm who were
convicted of no crime, but who, from the distress In
which they were involved, were obliged to sell off all the
little furniture they had, and seek a refuge in the union
workhouse, and that, consequently, their property, their
comfort, their hopes, and their liberty, were all affected
by the present law. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman
the Member for Bath, who had attacked him with so
much asperity when the question was last under
discussion, said that he was willing to interfere
with regard to the aged and infirm ; but he
(Mr. Ferrand) wanted the Government to interpose.
Why if the people were to combine together against the
law they would overturn the Government in a week,
but there was no redress for the poor, and if he stood
up to defend them he was met with a secret document
which, if it had been true, would have prevented him
from ever after sitting in that House. The 43d of
Elizabeth provided that labour should be found for the
indigent poor. If they did so now they would have a
robust labouring population. In his part of the country_
he found men begging for work, but they were refused
it, because they were told by the guardians that they
had applied to the Poor-law Commissioners to givi
them the power of doing so, but that they had refused
to accede to their request. But in bow many unions
were they compelled to refuse relief except within the
walls of the union workhouse. On the second readina
of the Bill the Honourable and Learned Gentle',
man the Member for Bath taunted him with being
desirous that the poor should lead a life °
idleness ; but no magistrate had committed more men to
the treadmill for deserting their families than he (Met
Ferrand) had. When it was shown that they were 41110
to work, and could have obtained it, he invariably sent
them to the treadmill. But when a man had sought
work, and could obtain none, he was compelled to part
with his furniture at one-twentieth part of its vale:;,, and
to enter the union, to subsist upon a diet which reduced
him to such a state of debility that lie was unable to
work when he procured it to do. Soh an inveterate
dislike did the people entertain to the law, that he should
not ho surprised if a revolution was the result. He at-
tended a meeting at the crown and Anchor a few weeks