The Sun.
London, England, 1847-01-20 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY MORNING, JANTJARY
_2o, 1847

prise,—when they cons;.dered all these things, and
wineral and cith-r•
t 10:d. %%lien

tong
4 7 Priace at that workhouse, a:d within the last we. k
been shinlii ask, any ore!. .1* real .s"•"
Fantailthe by the 1?-ay C •- aenf • • '
ruse or ihat
er th- n •:i 11,1
Str 1 ..!/11(ta
tx (.11i EY said, thet with ant eoree-
iPeade„
fa. te that had taketep'nee 011 stiff-ject,that as
Has It would throw any light upon the subject, he
euld be happy to lay it before the House.
Eit M ESII7'S SPEECII.—TiIE ADDRESS.
The SPEAKER stated that the House, in the early
Part of the day, had been auneitisd to the presance of
the
m Queen in the House of Peers, and thet her M: jesty
had delivered a most gracious Speech from the Throae.
Ile
teen read the Speeeli.
Mr. C. HOWARD rose to trove thet h Ail-
a
-reas be presented to her lalajesty, in r,• urn for h,r
gracious Speech. But be fore he worrier eroce. •
31, he besought the House to accord fiat
'5l indulgence ehieh it usually granted upon such
t'c'easions, and which he would assure the house he
et4l very greatly in need of. He holed sine rely that
observation, of his would disturb the unammit)
"vith which the Speech of her M 'jest). would be
feeeived, and hat they would imitate 'lie example
l
set them in Iridenrl„ arid fir a time fortiaar from
d—a
Para disputes—(hear. hear)—in sire's r the he-ter to
e
themselves to the eonsidet atrial a Irish measures,
'll
tit • devi-e means for the pet mar ent iln pro ve•
fire- et
- of the country. (Hear, hear.) Tee
-- Paragraph of her .slajesty's Speech erased the
de-- paragraph anxiety and concern for the dearth which at pro
lent exited in seiitlantl and Irel end. He telt stir. that
the House would join in that t•xpres-i oof keeling. He
tOrlreSSC(l that the circumstances of the Utter e,ur,tr.
aPPeareti to him to he of Si) are ailing a character,
fd so beset with d &alines, that he almost
It.e'ired to addle ss himself to the sehject.
--at he felt confident that the mere allusion
to them would be sufficient to excite symp th), ass
Would call forth the was west effort. to red ve them.—
al.,.'ltr, hear.) Unfortunately the calamoy of
•%'er, and famine was no tikes currenee
411 Ireland. Last year it prevailed to a consider-aide ex-
tent, but it did not take place at such an curly period of
the season, nor Witi att., tided with such fatal effects.
This year disease had set in early in August, and so
ekarnplete had been the de-truction of the potato crop,
et", at, with the, xception of a few set in the early part of
the year, they had been almost all destroyed. He felt
bow unable he was adequately to express in figures the
tht the h pa
;State of things
vae•;
tregardtetst thatoth
failure,toarable part o
a butl he believed
the country, or about 1,200,000 acres, were
Occupied with potato cultivation. This immense crop
lead entirely failed ; and when it, was taken into consi-
deration how many were dep.-orient on it as their only
aillasiae i
s, me idea might be formed of the
distress tyhich was the consequence of that tailure. There were so many dependentupon it that it was neatly
impossible to fill its place. Ile would not attempt to
describe the measure which the Government intended
to bring forward to meet this emergency. It would be
for them to state the extent of the employment they
11" given, the facilities they had held out for the em-
t)l°.Vnto f
the poor, and the contributions they had
gain to resist local contributions. But, notwith
standing
all they had done, he was afraid
that their efforts had not been sufficient to prevent
disease, or save the country from being reduced to a
moat desperate state. He was glad to understand that
Government intended to do all they could; that they
Were_ about to take off all duties which restricted the im-
tortatien of foreign grain, and that they insudee
Ilsealletv molasses and sugar to be used in dietilleries to
the grain hitherto used for that purpese.—(Hear.)
alwas quite aware of the benefit which this measure
r,ould pro duce to the country, but yet he could not
isgcaise from himself the fact that after all it would only
eh,' temporary utility, and that it would in no way affect
Perntanent condition of the people of Ireland. Ile we old
,11,e the whole conditien of t hat country inte,censideration,
1,4' would hope that the Government would devise suet-)
tutitsttroe as would not only relieve the present distress,
teil:v°llld also prevent it prom becomin2 a permanent
thoughaving noticed the distress of that country, he
lie,, he should be doing en injustice—a great injus-
The's. to the people, if he did not at the same time notice-
etd..eular patience with which the people of Irelind had
aut).`lred the extreme suffering to which they had been
lieit,!tell during the existence of this terrible calamity.
tlesir"J'ught it but right to make this remark because he
IYrneadtl, as he trusted it would be shown, that the
the of that House went entirely with
perenPiti of Ireland, and that it would be
1-14thp-"llendation to the Irish people still
that irrite bear up their fortitude against the distress
1311 whirl upon them. There was another subject
Ole .c wished to say a few words. He alluded to
,503eustruction of the independence of Cracow, and ha
it viol °,. help expressing his extreme surprise that such
taken ‘,lun of the sanctity
43 a Place and he could net help looking upon it
of treaties should have
ileateT at.'l,fesi violatitin of the treaty of Vienna.—cliear,
Which, helhere was one topic in her Majesty's Speech
.
t• hat thought of peculiar importance to this country
I11()t,
) "was, the notice of the Health of Towns
JeatYla —' which had been made by her Ma
-,7Forts (flutnissioners, and he trusted that those
ael th„ . would awaken the eople of this country
-tlinisPortance of that subjpect, and that they would
to(nit neh Measures as would mainly contribute to
eepr',u!tant object. In saying thus much, he ought
13nutaw."s his gratitude to Mr. Chadwick and Dr.
tafthis °`al Smith for their exertions and conaideraii,m
84b.l'"et and for the valuable reports they had made.
the ie
aid lint " th.r rem trouble the 'liaise with any fur
• iedui ka ; but at once thank • them for
'itereb°,, Rance he had received. The Ilonoura.-
Adar"s concluded by moving "that an humbli•
' h
pr
er esented to her Majesty in return for her
the `a gracious Speech trim the throne.
tea()
octhclre3s was then read, which was, as usual, an
Itr,
he 1-j SPeech,
itie
cptFARDO rose to second the Address He
*o_ offered
hith t'u Lot anticipate that any opposition wiiti!tibe
° the Address, for the purpose of sec.-fading-
bet' he n
0c loved aa Ow bad the honour to rise. He
eommlin,sito.,even if' there were anything eith r
~,tr▪ Y
Party, it':nr omission in the o
tee"' 4113' obstru .t. its case they would be sloe, to
jet:rteat
,i0“-tion to her Majesty'. Government at a
pinion of
vir."luire the adoption a portion of her Majesty's sub-
Lacer ina.optie.ne of measures which would lead
le on. F
riend
Ittliriout;,.. relief. lie should not fidlow his
considered, aft",,i_t the details of Irish distress, because
to
_at. all, he
shuowihat he had said, it he alluded
sentiments
sncerity. Ileuad PaY but a poor compliment
of eve 'as sure that he expresses! the
!stated his firm every iqember in the House when he
ir_oposed by her 'Nntv.i.ction that
-- when the measures to
ttfiethe existina distress ca
Government for the alleviation
emoYd'
swtiouLld bai4oraecBllB Ca.L.M.e tinder consideration, that
Eicierat. tiwaSseci by . the discassion of them with
party hostility or by party con-
deliattl"s' and that
vie Motives, in they would be actuated by the
aad sing a reined„ i2rder to obtain the same
inea':u.,r,t.cr the present national calamity,
those. Measures thing to prevent the recurrence of a
at' state of
gs in future.—(Cheers.) What
eiattotlemg ; ght be, he had no means ce
folltire toindeed, it he did, it would be pre-
discusstahnS."p e. Speech toenl Whichlhil- he NBVlltheat hte(riettl.k7el,.
he'. les for itstssion of foreign corn, and for giving
ilfaaCTlPietia•Yrit t'onfe
, keyed
admission.—(Flear hear,) This he
utttie was understood to b done the 114,* 3 11P°11 foreign e. by removing
h•ig‘ti°h corn, and by the relaxation et the
s aUsi far as regarded that importation.
"ear(' but natlreceived universal discusaion. Ile hd
ara, two objections raised against it, one of whicah
Onrinc),t, extr • or 'nary reason, that no larger quan-
th corn could be • •
und admitted under a tree importation
t!ot „'er the present duty. Certainly,if th
hethey eon .
"L' any in, they could not let any out.
ente._ext reason was, that the compact which was
ttit r d into between Parliament and the agricultural
teee.,rests would be materially interfered with. Now,
~1-;°nfessed he thought there was no party in that Hous•-
te7 would deem it wise to take upon itself the
oclonsibility of adding one farthing to the price
luod at the present moment, in order to sustain snob
etPunctilio as this. He did not apprehend that the agri
their
of 1847 would think less disinters-telly 0!
1-rieir country than the agriculturists and Parliament of
400, when it would be borne in mind, not
"3'alY was corn admitted for the relief of the suffer-
people, but a bounty paid on its ialaroduction.
.1)w, he did not consider that the state of the country
whUld be Si) bail as it was in 1800, for the measures
,vlch would be taken by her Majest• 's Government
13°Inthl prevent their arriving atsuch a point of cketitution.
litr there was one point to which he would call partic.
Ti,_llltrn i'
tition—they were not alone in their misfortune.
toseareity extended through the greater part
(if the
liotteent of Europe. France, Holland, and Belgium
e?opened their ports and remitted their corn &kite..
'inn, were, therefore, put upon their defence, and it
4 be utter inadeess in them if they should impose
111,14 themselves any restrictions which should prevent
teees_ from obtaining a fair share of the pr,due,
asD,„__'aerny_to their support.—(Hear, hear.) Let them, for
ao7l"`a tits sake, take the average price of corn to b.,
eu, %quarter. Upon that they hail at present to pay a
they's 'Mug duty, while, under the old corn.l.lw,
w"uld have but one shilling. It was
us bi co to every one that the seller would sooner talt,,
Sher rn to a free and unrestricted market than to one
top !' e would have to pay a toil of four shillings, even Thr osina a
,that the toll were repaid by the price of corn.
grew. 'oral their more intimate rela•ioes with corn.
e
ountries, and from their means trtffi tug
tarLtteM, from their insular position and sune•-
er, meanadv
3 of internal transit, had ec Nand)
than antage in keeping the price of corn lower
tede other countries. But, in order effectually
1 whit.ll° two things were necessary, the first
was to remit their corn duties,
lk„ kat, second was to relax their navigation laws.
been in the habit of re,•eiving two millions if
at), this of whett from Ireland; they w-uld not re c•ive
h Ye't
,cake to r, but the probability, -.vac, that they woul
Vdce export the same querrity, which would
vheri deficit of four millins.—(Hear, hear.)
they considered the success t d d the
s which had lt had atttn e.
ben rr rte
been
made to carry out 51 liberal system
they had the strong, st presumption fur
ttbrhu,"?at the best effects would follow from
.atied
hitherto °f
of the navigation laws, which
15tere,,:tatrto operated so injurious] •• to the
ic)ilit of not only the mother coant-r)-, but their
tteetioc`tePendene es When they considered) the
the British When
it extend, d
'Aete gent;very quarter of the globe ,that- 'their
an, .
ed sailors were toiling ever where in
I'.ashe-C'' of humanity that their empire 'was
Aire
tCeY
bee Very seta—that their commercial traders
444flicturerse: cuatomers of the country, and their
gurpassed by none in energy and enter-

,--,,,.er-ation the greitt
the remission of

that 1)a(

the old ;f 4W, kd in its operation in ibis
country, ate:: had lost thear North Am ricun
co!onies, besides creating irritation in the present de•
pendeucies of the country, they had every encouragement
to come forward in the direction they had recently
taktn.—(Cheers.) There was one other matter in
the Sperreh to w hieti he would refer. It was
that r•.•g••.,!dtrig trio adu:i sit,n of suitor tOr
the use of brewers and distillers. Ile did
not intend to ccupy she •,ttens too ot ti•e llousr at any
let.gm on su;,j at l.rt nt, as many opp,;rtuniti‘es
Air; be aff.irded for it • ful! diseussion in future. hut hri
pertnhted ,ay that the proposttnut
w. did have the h..• etr.ets in siberaiini4 u.
amonet oC ;Jai: t r tee ...,intertanee
the pesipse—( boor )—µh tie at the same
tone ho believed a considerable reduction could be made
in the cost of souse articles of luxury to the pople.—
( Hear, hear ) He consid: red that the measure
would be but an act of tiAre justice to the
sgi.ieu!i.nrid interest, which complained of the
ssibrot!'-alort of t.-:e pis rection that it hAI hitherto
es,j.) rd. the sneers, that had at tenited the new e4itir,e,
t policy pqrsited—the exrrie-ee inc ease in tie
Ctn•t, ma • 11.1'10-., a: iht .rile time t' at it ii,r;e coo:rump-
;lon 4.f nec,sary and us. to articles, suco e. timber.
sno bra' rly lied taken place—rneouraged the:»
to go ste, tidy in the same traek.—(Cheers).
I h•• w s riny, ced that. • ther w-nid nisi be slow
iu fi.howAig our examl•l . but the.. they would prefer,
rl, it wits so ,Vitit Ilt!)' to C:eir t•Tests, tit buy.
ecor:oinnaills astir (tutu manufacture t x pensively ;
tle.l wiueld qui, kly flow into he cow:try, and
th.o. sh-ul, hate sium a return in areswer to our
prr rs, that the world -.eriuld speedily feel the benefit of
those measures, and that thtir result would b•• an in-
crease of plenty, prosperity, and peace. With those ob-
servattons it only remained for him to second the
Address whiet, the Speaker had in big hands.
Tl:e Ad: res• havi g tars 1.• ad from the Chair,
Air S. O'BRIEN said that, however disinclined
he was to disturb the unanimity of the House
on the pre:cut occasion, or in an) respect to inter
f re with that unanimity with which addresses in reply
to the speech of her Majesty should have, he felt
that he should be wanting in duty to his countrymen
if he remit:met; silent, and refrain( d from an appeal
to the House, in behalf of those whose suffer-.
figs could neither be exaggerated nor described.
It was surely not necessary for him to remind the
House of the circumstances that had taken place during
tie last three months in Ireland. If Hon. Gentlemen
would only look at the reports which were daily circu
lated thr••ugh the newspapers of that country for the
last three months,
they would know that those suffer-
ings were extreme, and that there was reason to appre-
hend that, unless immediate measures be taken trey
wiil not only continue, but be very large:). increased.
The latest newspaper which he l•ad received from that
country contained an account of no less than eight in-
quests in the county of Mayo, in which verdicts had
been returned of death from absolute starvation ; and
also an account of a family who ,ere found living upon
horse-flesh and carrion, ttie refuse of wild ducks and
other birds. He was not :prepared to say that
her Majesty's Goverrment were to be held en-
tirely guiltless cf having produced such a fearful
state of things. He believed that it was in their power
to have prevented a single death taking place through
starvation. He did not, accuse them of a wilful inten-

teen of doing so, but he tie -ugh t that by the measures they
had introduced, or rather the neglect of those measures,
they had tended considerably to bring about that state
of things. He would recal to the recollection of the House
the pledge given by the Noble Lerd at the heed of the
Government, at the close of the last session, that no inter
Terence on the part of the Government with food
should be allowed. To that fatal pledge he attributed
many of the disasters which had bet ellen that unhappy
country. The present Government should have iollowed
the example of their predecessors, and made a pledge
that, so far as the exertions of the Government
were concerned, they would do the utmost to
present any human being dying of starvation,
The iced., Lord had, no doubt, by this time discovered
that floe capital of this country was not of such a nature
as Lentil be irnmedistely employed in obtaining resources
ter a populatien of five millions of persons, the greater
portion of which were to be felled in places where no
trade or commerce had as yet any existence. The
Government ought, therefore, to have been prepared
to augment the supply of corn, by ransacking
every port in the civilized world, and also to have in-
tr eleced every description of produce, and by the ap-
plication of that produce to the most remote parts of
the couetry, have mitigated the evils and prevented
those fearful disasters with which the public were
unhappily too well aequeinted —(llear, hear.)
Then he wished to ask why should not the duty upon
the impartation of corn have been abrogated months
ago, w hen the horrible state of the It ish people became
knot, n ? The Noble Lord had be eft bald enough
in dealing with other dud. a, or rather the chief
Secretary for Ireland had 1(.11,41 no difficulty in legislet•
ing without Parliament. But why should not Parlia-
ment have been called together months age, for the pule
pose of carrying out the plan only now suggested, viz., of
removing the corn duties, and:suspending the navigation-
laws, in order t;1 alleviate the existing distress, and conse-
quently of permitting such an importation of grain, snd
preventine the use of sucar in breweries and distilleries,
nil of employing the navy, as they had oely recently
been employed in carrying supplies of food
to the esereme portiens of the country, access
to which was difficult ? Then, with respect to the ere
ployment of tin- people—and he regretted that he was
a ldr seiner y,,itudienc five-sixths of whom knew no-
thing about the subject the resident gentry and
the farmers, who had receiek d diminished rents
and profits. from the Torture of the potato crops, unit
who were cons, quently unable to give ail the emplo3
went that was required, stepped nobly forward and did
their best to alleviate the distress, yet the Government
refused to tax the absentee latidlords.—(llear, hear.) 1,,
such a state of things it was the duty of the
Government to provide a temporary remedy. They
passed at the end of last session a Bid which was culls
the Labour-Base Act. under which power was given to
the Executiv to uneertelte %Yorke recommended tty the
quarter sessions, in order to give employment to the
w • ph- anti ureter thts Act they were employ ed in de-
°
stroying the roads, and in consigning the land to perm,-
tual barrenness—nothing was done for its proper culti-
vation. He did no:. blame the Government for passim;
his Act, because they, no doubt, did so precipitately,
and without knowing the full extent of the sufferings of
the people ; but he could find no apology or the neglect
of the Government. in not calling Parliament together
for the purposes to which he had-referred, and of whose
couduct he could not sp..ak in terms of praise.
General remonstrance reaent d the Government against
the expenditure of such large sums of money on (injects
injurious or wort :lee', which they were for the most
cart. The Hon. Gentleman inste ad of doing that,
which was his duty, took upon himself the functions
of the Legislature, arid that without consulting the
Irish representatives, who were the proper organ for
iegislative enactments. But the Hon. Gentleman had
taken the sole responsibility of establishing regulations
affecting the property of the country and its taxi
Lion in a most material manner, and that through
a letter couched in language very obscure and
excuedlngly difficult to understand. It appeared to him
thst the Minister who set such a precedent—tor, let them
remember, it was a precedent—was deserving of ina-
veachnient. lle might stand alone in that opinion, but
he telt himself hound, noter.th.siantling, to express
it. He was bound to state, in addition, that the instru-
ment had remained a dead letter, end hart thrown the
country into confusion; for, up to that moment, it was
his belief that a very small portion of the works
had been undertaken in accordance with that letter.
What they demanded was, that the employment of the
people should no longer be directed to works
ot:t:oeetannte
employed
reeeTd!yt
inumnt;:drrrie, ui
se
destroyingi d charactertrn)ntissa s. h
.)anet
mentthh ee
le,njiiaquownecere
of lewfthichunwtrifilie,;(ll —be( litehaart„ hear —the
s•
the f2mine
i
e next year w,,u1,1 double that of thprey,-nt..
Ile complained that the p.tcvisions ot the Ate :t h
not
been carried Into , tficient effect, and that the 13::d
ar
Works tt nor carry out the powers which had b'eei
ni n
repo-ed in them for the employment of the
petipi.e. In the county of Mayo, he knew that,
the proprietors of land had taxed themselves to
a great extent for the employment of the people, that
due effect to the funds so raised had not been given.
through the inefficiency of t: e Board of Trade arrange.
ments, while the ve,ple were dying by thousands.
There was another consideration why Ireland
should know the measures to be proposed at the
earliest moment. Was the measure to be local or na-
tional ? 0.1 that question would depend the reception
which it would meet with in Ireland. If it were to be
a national measure, then should all be called on to con-
tribute to it equitably, without rt gard to class or party,
landowner, netrtgagee, fundholder, and annuitant.
Whatever he, as a humble Member of the House, in ght
think of the measure or the character given to it,
upon that would depend its efficacy as a means ut
relief fur the sufferings of the Irish people. It would
show to the millions of than country whether
the union was to be productive of benefit to Ireland. or
throw all the advantages in favour of Eitglatel—(Leugh-
ter) —by the encouragement of absentees to
spe
between
nd
tdtt
rnw):o.et
rheec
tTitrnuelini)itt,eses
el:, levied land
se ient d
and
felrlderaela
ilci,ot;nrsl
til)einud of Ire
t of the
and he
trusted the measures of the Groernment would be
acreair
t.al m e
theinrte Ireland
In(
t.
uthhla(eit
nit
ia
ltd ir, rif,eohci —d
ht(tet I,
wet a,
theirt.l, l hieatr)lt
athiants
manu-
facturers, and
d
of
ease to their imagination in which the prsinciple that
thizlied b
case een
n advocatedinv,si
0(47, rrnl;i
that should deprive the tr op e of
food would be as scarce as etneleytnent. 'e
ould tesy dare
filch
to adopt such ineasures as those
eommendest, and which would be equivtilene"- "suat,s‘3,' nrip'-
ni nowt t‘hvish wholeto
of)
„rthoeplpa,nsdi rilt‘ rtehs: -o
t Government,lreittit: He nisi
"h"ej
11; h
Na vtatcii:
looked upon their attainment of dile,- with the greatest
satis,action,andhadeertainliic
yghretihaoey
tes,. Butrshya-ldevised,l
tSt
mi
than
nowithfaith
tahn otheriynth e s
plans r, iv,e.
i i ti,, iu:at pre-
salt he
thought that they would not by any means, be likely to
satisfy his countrymen. There hart been a committee
sitting in Dublin, whose business it was to investigate
the stste of the country. Ile would not that night enter
into the details of that committee, but lie del not, hesitate
to say, that, for himself, if their recommendation
were adopted, he would hesitate to give in his
adhesion to the extension of the poor law
to Ireland. But if the cry for help that was now =skint,
not by relief, but by such
from Ireland Pad to be met,

pamphlets as that which he held in his hand (An i when his Noble Friend assumed office he found that
Extract them Aden:, Smith's " Wealth of Nations"), ! a course had been adopted, which had received the sanction of
110th ii:,, Contil itieie the exasperatien of the people, that Heime, and almost the adorition of the Irish landed
or evisid the &melted calamity of irnpendieg taionie. proprietors. He
of He alluded to the plan of affording relief to
, pnebliTawsorks. uhrehmaptio,yed Labourers through the
.meddiutm,itohf
ttehme
whaht.leno
anudubatg,
ab
The opinions which he entertained upon the seisjems of ' 'n
„ ! some abuse ; but, up,i't:
petit ism.l economy, the duty of the Goyernmeet, and the
r of' ec'hoiee,
duty of the Legislature, mere net at all accept atm, ;
' they thought it least objectionable, but they never recommended
to that house; he felt it his duty, however, to this measure as one intended 'to provide for the whole
state then, and so long as the Government of this labouring population of Ireland. They were in hopes that
'menatatet''
country administered the resources of Ireland and works of that description would have the effect of stimulating
her revenues, so long would he continue to hold landed proprietors to the undertaking of useful produce
the Government responsible for every death which tive works, rather than be thrown away on the roads.
might occur through starvation— (Cries of "Oh, oh") In these hopes, however, they had been disappointed.
—if they del not adopt every tnelieure which might to The Honourable Member for Limerick went on to corn-
eae ;bate y and fatrly expected of teem. plain that the system of public works was deficient, and
Mr. 1' SCROPE m I mod that the Hon. Member who that • the parties employed to carry it out were inefficient.
Hear hear.) To that
heti just sat down had alluded to the employment of the —ei t .
. the extensive operations of the Board there might be some
Mil— boiled of the. imolle of Ireland oit public oorks in
inefficient servants, but with
that eelintry. but hat; said nort,ing ~t the relief of that he believed that no
reasonable
regard to
ith.e
I t could he r
large cla-s of the populatien of that cowitry, He believed that it would ebeem-'faolunnd that it nertgoueld
the deetitute, who eet e unable to work upon public have been impossible for public servants to have
works. The wages which were given to those persons shown greater ability, greater zeal, or greater success
employed on public world might have beers sufficient in the discharge of their arduous duties.—( Hear.) Did they
for their support when they bud potatoes us a means of consider the peculiar task imposed on them, and the extent of
sustenance; but now that the crop of that article was machinery that had to be directed? Why, at the present mo-
dest royed it was not set-Belem. seeing they had es put chasm ment there were 4.59,000 persons employed on the public works
corn and greets at high prices. If then the families of 'he in Ireland—( Hear)—under the superintendence of the Board
emplee ed could net subsist en their prin• lit e ages, what complained of. In September last 30 000 were employed ; in
was to become of those destitu'e permem who were tin- (oHoeoaor,
hear.);in November, 285,000 ; and in December,
440,0( em
'
;dee to set trk ? He supposi d i het tee moven-ahem coo- under the Board, to To expect that all officers employed
eideted that the various relict' conirnitt• es seems' afford be efficient servantgstrewa''sffescut tol such
hope
fmoracltsionoerny :
ueh.—
should
t e proper relief ; they vs ere, however, iiiterdicted ti ons ( Hear.) He would state there ynuttnoberoiowf officers necessary :
giving rel.% f in money, and were 0,, ly allots cd to tie 1 inspectors, 74 ; engineers, 36 ; assistant-engineers, 355 ;
erevisions at cost price to such perm ins as clerks, 2,8 5) ; and overseers, 6,846 —(Hear, hear.)
might be eonsicered proper objects of their attention. This was the effort which had been made by the Government to
Ihe o.llllitiitot should have done mere than sole meet the calamity. He cote., understand any man who blamed
f eel at the prime cost, because he believed they the Government for the course which they had adopted ; he
were tot pr, vented frern assisting them by grants caule understand any man Vfho should blame the Government
of food and money. Thin, with respect to for a deficiency of energy, and for not exerting ail the power
for mitigating the calamity, but he could not understand how
the workhouse se stem, experience during ther
past ought to have taught them teat they could not rely any man, seen the gigantic efforts
the of
factte
with any certainty, nor upon the voluntary i eliel of the I that disease and famineatill bisatTll3 them
prevailed in
tnre
Ire-
gentry. When their attention was called to the land. There was no doubt but that disease and famine
nature of the emergency last August, which did prevail to a most lamentable extent, but there was as little
they ought have aeticipated, they might have doubt that this exertion had been greatly instrumental
well known that they could not - calculate in reducing the evil and relieving Ireland from the
with any certainty upon receiving the ample means pressure of this calamity. But they were to consider
which were necessery from the resident gentry of whether this was a question which only affected Ireland, or
Ireltind. 130 workhouses had been established whether it applied to the whole of the British empire, and he
in Ireland under the law
had c. h recently passed. should have no
fallen difficulty in answering that question. The
hut they' were not calculated to contain one hundruth Scocalamity
ti l which
spread r
es so
d
outfearfully
of
all proportion
through
sa he
England and
r
mt.
p of the indigent part of the popula ion. The work- resources, and he did not hesitate to say that th
eHouse would
houses in England were not calculated to maintain concur with him in the assertionthat Ireland had a right to look
more than ten per cent. of the population during the to England and Scotland for the help which she needed. But he
worst seasons; but what was to become of the poor of trusted that the landlords of Ireland would do their duty, and
Ireland daring similar seasons with such crippled work.. he believed that the exertions of the people of England would
house accommodation ? Its massy instances the work he somewhat in proportion to the willingness of the landlords of
houses had become so crowded that their doors had to Ireland to assist their fellow-countrymen.—(Lead cheers. )
be shut to all new comers; aid, so crowded were they, He thought that there was in Ireland an improved spirit
that fever hs d broken out, and instead springing up. In many instances a sense of discouragement
therefore, of affereing relief to the poor, they had come over the feelings of the landlords. They were
had been the means of iiim
cling
them
with now, however, beginning to awake from their dream,
ande to consider that Ireland was only to be saved from
fevers, which too often carried them. off. He
,eked them why they had re st interfered be- children.rpresentThdeisasters he the instrumentality of her own
most cordial feelings were exulted in this
tore now, and dispensed more liberal relief. ci untr behalf
This might have ben done by making the local were ' vtviolnlin to orfentdhtersuffhering people of Ireland, and they
authorities responsible for the rnainteirance of te power, butg that assistance'em could
dry
naostsisthaence h
ct inn their
h
poor, more especially the infirm and deetitute. and safely given without the co-operation of the nobilityenralY
The local authorities would then have been able, through and gentry of Ireland. The Honourable Member
their own means, to have provided ample supplies of for Stroui had put a question with reference to thole p
f cud, and they would not then have heard of the dread- afforded to the destitute and infirm of the population of Ireland.
ful occurrences in Skibbereen, in which, as it ap.
adopt
best course which the Government thought they could
peered to him, the poor were left to starve or as:tpsttanweaes :no allow the relief committees to afford the necessary
be swept off the face of the earth.—(Hear, hear). Ile had in the lastt astescstaosns, anti it wspoor-lawashisinioe
lth at if Parliament
lamented that he felt it his duty to make these the English poor-law, Pend which the Hoanirn..
iaermi in
Member
its naturee
ed tt to
observations, and he considered that the facts re- think the panacea of all the evils of Ireland, still heetlnstou ht
quired some explanation at the hands of the Minister, that under the pressure of the accumulated distress of the cosign-
He, with others, felt that measures were not taken try, that measure would have broken down, and he was
which might have prevented the scarcity which was borne oat in that opinion by the fact of the
difficulty which even then existed in col-
now so bitterly felts hicting the rates necessary for the
Mr. LABOUCHERE said, that although for many of the existing poor-law in Ireland. He did not supporttn
years he had been in the habit of addressing the House, therefore, that the fearful state of Ireland was in think,
k.
yet, he confessed, that at no time had he risen way to be attributed to the non-existance of a
more impressed with the respousibility of hts positron, poor-law in Ireland similar to the English poor-law.
or under a stringer impression how much he should His Hon. Friend (Mr. S. OBrien) wished to know what he
stand in need of the accustomed kiniiness of the House. had done when the poor-houses were crowded with poor.
—Weser.) The Hon. Getele men the Member for Li They acted on the principle of entrusting the relief of the
Poor to the local authorities—(Hear)—instead of undertaking
meriek had in very strong language uimicted the distress Po
on thentselves the whole machinery of doling out food to
at present existing in Ireland. He (Mr. Labouchere) Y
fuhe people through the hands of Government officers. But
wished that it was in his power to say that he con-
they instructed the relief committees to exert themselves to the
sidered that the Hon. Gentleman had overcharged utmost to raise money for the relief of the poor, and informed
the picture. There had been, no doubt, i
sn them that the Government would assist them with grants.
some particular instances, great exaggeration. And here he would pause to assure the House of the great
Betore Hon. Members could charge her Majesty's good that had been effected by those relief committees, the
Ministers as had been done by the Honourable human misery they had alleviated. He was sure, if it were
Member for Limerick (Mr. Smith O'Brien), they in his power to :ay a statement before the House of the good
out ha to consider the ordinary condition of Ire they had effected the House would thank them fur what
land before this great calamity took place. What they had done for the mitigationheonf
the
ee distresses of the
was the usual state of that country? It was poor.ere The Goveramoneen.thabletgoafnvt
began,
when
wars dis trraetssesdw aasnndot
501.50 I!
no exaggeration to cosy, that the people were the worst sfoery byet,e,ry granting
1. collected, but when the deities' increased
housed, the worst clothed, and the worst fed of any
they acted upon a more liberal principle, and gave a pound for
people in Eurepe.—(llear, hear.) Ile had in his , every pound raised. The House d.d not hear, and
possesision some facts which would throw considerable could not hear, of the multitudes that had been
tight upon this question, which had been certified us saved by these committees. He, in common with the other
correct by one of Owl hest antherities on the subject. members of her Majesty's Gevernment, felt deep sorrow that
He meant the commission for inquiry into the condition of the the famine had committed so much havoc, but when they saw
poor that had been issued in 1635. The labours of that corn- rich Belgium, France, and Germany suffering from the prea-
mission proved that there were 1,131,000 agricultural la sourer* sure of famine, he did not believe that they would
whose average wages did not exceed from Is. to 2s. 6d. feel surprised that such a country as Ireland, when it pleased
per week, and of Ilhis number one-half were unemployed Providence, had been similarly &Acted. It was
for thirty weeks in the year. Sach was the condition of Ire- almost imp ssible for such a state of things
land in 1835. Such was the country or, which a calamity had to be met ademtately by Government measures.
fallen unparalleled in modera times. By a visitation of Pro- There was a retail trade fast springing up in Ireland; it was
vidence the food of a large proportion of the people had been ni cessary for the welfare of the country that it should
almost entirely swept away. The sotato crop had been a com- exit, aad it would be their duty to foster and encourage
plete failure. He had obtained some calculations of the lots it. But it was titter folly to imagine that they would
which Ireland had sustained in money value, certified as correct be able to interfere with it, and check the price of fend. The
by one of the best statisticians in Ireland, Mr. Griffiths. He cal- relief committees established throughout the coon-
cleated that one and a half millions of acres were try were doing an incalculable degree of good.
under potatoes, the ordinary value of which crop Soup depots had been established in every lo-
was 10/. an acre. This was an aggregate value of cality, and the amount _of human suffering relieved
15,000,0001., and as three-fourths had been destroyed, was almost :inciodible. Before he sat down he would
the loss was 11.250,001. There had also been a great failure refer to one part of her Majesty's Speech upon which
in the oats. There were four millions of acres under that he felt sure the utmost antzoiemtheprvailed—he meant
state
of Ireland.
cr;;p, of which one-third was destroyed, making a loss in that part which referred
d
money of 4,666,0001. The total loss, therefore, was Wnile famine had demilated I rel an ,it could not be denied but
on these two crops 15,916,0001. That was the ques- that outrage existed to a cmnide' able extent ; and while the
thin which he had to put before them. Now Government was disposed to meet the
fearful state of
these were the calculations of loss which had been occasioned things that existed, he warned those who might be the
t would leave
by the calamity that had befallen Irelend. What was the men- abettors of the outrages that the Governmef the country.—
n
sure of the loss? Why it was found, on investigation. no means untried to secure the tranquillity
o
that the failure of the crop had fallen on a million ( Hear, hear.) The general state of
Ireland showed
them,
and a half of acres of potato ground, and that the an increase of outrages ; but having analysed
ert
loss in weight amounted to 11,250,000 lbs. The value of this he found they were mainly attacks
property.produce was esti eated at 4,837,e00/. From other causes He was glad to say that the old
ag
dimes
there was a loss of upwards of 5,227,000/. But the House "Wraps had not only not increased, but had actually
I. and
knew that this calamity was not to be estimated by the loss of nished • the spirit of combination had all but ceased, and
produce, or of the money for which that produce could be now there' was no difficulty in enforcing . thelaw
woffaegndiers
sold. Great as was that misfortune, there was a far offenders. There was no sympathy with the_
juries
greater one to endure. Every one acquainted with the witnesses could easily be found, and theth
u h-
construct ion of society in Ireland knew how intimately the t'ul- generally did their duty.—( Hear, bean ) Generally
wasthrough-
construction g
as
ture of the potato entered into it, and how great a stake it con- out Ireland, at the present time, the law
e_ the
stituted in the welfare of the country. He would not trouble egularly administered as it was in any
part
td
tthe House with details with which they were familiar, but he British empire. This was important an
He
cheer-
had only to recal it to their recollection to give them ing in the present state of things in Ireland.
de of
some idea of the distress which this loss had oecasioned. would now appeal to the returns which had beenhme
afoand
Not only was the cottage farmer deprived of his the crimes committed in Ireland, and, from tbesel
*es and
usual supply of food, but also of the means of pay. that in the month of December, 1845, the iiurg ari
unted
ing that rent for which he was responsible, but which highway robberies committed in that country
amem anted
he now found himself unable to pay. 'fhen there was the to eighty, while in December, 1846, they had a
breaking
farm labourer, who was now deprived of every resource. to the enormous number of 1,383. Now, die
the high
em, w
When these two facts were taken into consideration into houses, and the stopping of persons on
as an
Honourable Members would obtain some idea of the road fop the purpose of taking money from them,
d Then
deprivation which the loss of food had occasioned, offence quite new in the annals of crime in Irelan
returns,
and what had been the reality of the suffering. The with regard to agrarian outrages, he found by the
trages corn-
Hon. Member for Limerick had described the state of that in 1844, the number of agrarian ou
1'920.
, while
misery and destitution in the county of Mayo, and charged the mitted was 2,486; in 1845 they were
the most
Government with having produced that state. Why, in the in 1846 they had peen reduced to 1.304.
Buthc Govern-
year 1835, a witness mid, in his examination before out. of the particular circumstance of all was the support w
ho had been
Committees of that House, "that the county of Mayo could menu had received in the punishment of th
likely to escape
supply beggars enough for all Europe." Was it, then, fair guilty iif offences hitherto supposed to be most
year it had
or just to charge upon the Government the present disastrous the penalty of the law. In the autumn of
lastcute a nura-
state ef the country ?—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. ;Member become the duty of Government to Proese
bakers' shops
went on to attack his Noble Friend at the head of the Govern- ber of persons for breaking into
th
ui and were
ment because he had adhered to the pledge which he gave at and stealing the bread. They all pleaded
silty.sme
the close of last session, not to interfere with the ordinary condemned to the heavy punishment of twos
• eaGentleman (Mr.
supply of food to Ireland. The pledge which his Noble Friend There was another charge which the
w lion.
not calling Parlia-
had given was this, " that the Government would not meddle S. O'Brien) had made of the Governmente ( mmr. e Labouchere)
with the import trade of provisions to Ireland from foreign ment together last autumn. Why, really, daily habit of see-
countries." He (Mr. Labouchere) now maintained that it was in Ireland at that time, and was in th
he business On yourselves."nd there was not one
' H
was most fortunate that the Government had firmly, and ing a great number of Irish gentlemen _e
eavenh sake, don't
under much obloquy, adhered to that pledge. He knew of of them who did not say,
" Fo
nothing more criminal on the part of the Government than to call Parliament together, but take t
for Heaven's sake, call the
allow themselves, against their own reason, to be hurried into One and all of them said, "Do not,
°ru
will only unsettle the
the adoption of a course which they were satisfied would not be Parliament together, that, if eou do, y
Zed on. Do whatever you
for the good of the miuntry.—(Cheers.) He was public works which arenow being
eabrility, and trust to Parlia
sure that if Government had turned importers of food think right upon your ohwuntrdes i
note'leave everything in Ireland
on a large scale, and attempted to do that which ment for an indemnity,
the° time arrives for Parliament to
no Government could have done, the attempt in a state of suspense till
" It would be now highly
would have failed. The sheet period of plenty would have sanction your measures.
es which her Majesty's
to advert to those measures
before the Parlia-
been succeeded by all the horrors of an aggravated famine.— improper
d shortly to lay
4 Hear.) Hon. Members on the opposite side seemed to think Government are prepare
Con than the question of
that the power of Government was unlimited. There A more cemplieated ques s
could not ment.submitted to their con
be a greater mistake than that. He fully admittedthe condition of Ireland could not be
ht e • . -
there . . d ment the House mig ntertain of
were occasions when the Government might that
' Whatever iu g , _
step aside from sideration. r Itlajesty s Goverionent—and he
the rule which should be observed on course adopted by he
common occasions.— thecould roach the great question
( Cheers.) The fallacy of the reasoning that they aPP
of the Hon. Member had no doubt
hat Hon. Members would bring to bear
for Limerick was to be met not b and t
result.--( Hear. ) Was there any y argument, but by the in a kindly spirit,. n
ert, feeling or local jealousies—not
no ps .7
d man who did not know upon the discussion
t_
ey
h were English, Scotch, or Irish
that if the Government had
Ireland with food the undertaken to supply considering whether the
would deal with the subject in a spirit
but that they w
conseuence would have Members—was just and right to each and all. The
been that all trades would have what
The pledge which the been paralyzed ? and ietention of
uch that the people ot Ireland had
Government madecalamity was s , , .
was this, that they nature of the
would not import corn from , mn. and to ciaim as a right, the assist-
abroad for 1
eirc relate' under any aright to ask as a Dee u
the British people.—
umttances. It was need ear (Hear, hear.
y to speak out on ance and support t
the subject. The conduct who, thoughout his speech was heard
of the preceding Go- The Hon. Gentleman,
vernment had excited the fears of • the gallery, then went on to say, that
merchants, who said "We
the Irish Members, he did not do so
must know what we are about in speaking thus to . Ile hoped th
before we go into the American k sp ey would justif
mark
do.
We ought to know in any un . friendly G
what the Government intend e ent and of the overnment b
do." And his Noble the exertions of Par tam
..
on to leave , y show. Friend announced his intent!)determines . nothing untried, no-
hered to it ever since. g and he had ad- ing on their artsp
exertion omitted rhieh ;
nmght alleviatel
not make that pledge without is. Pfi He, however, did thing undone. no ex
Ireland. He was satisfiedthat the
he would not interfere underg arl cation. He added, that present condition of they
savanthroug Irish co-operation. In
the retail trade of Ireland. ordinary
circumstances with could do nothing state that
beno he would la
land in which there was an entire absence
parts of Ire- speakingg thus,
amount of relief which .England') ee
no
trade where he (Mr. Labouchere) thought Governmentstehneceof retail limit on
ithleandin
such a crisis, but he should be should
afford to Ireland
ought to interfere. In the western part, and on the doctrine which would lead to the
beliefsorry to
southern encourage any that
toast, there was this absence, and, with respect to them, the future was to rely altogether upon E i
they Ireland for England.—
thought and.--
thought they would do more good than harm b • If their own children would y interfering. Hear, hear. not exert them-
-( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") In other parts hselves manfully, the greatest injury could not fail to
t ey
would have done more injury than good by such an could Ireland cail wi:h
it,terfer- for on whom e more justice than
ence, for if they had attempted to control the whole retail trade on her own countrymeni' He hoped they would come to
they would have signally failed. The H. Gentleman had discussion of these matters in one common spirit.
When the
Hon. the
reproached them with not acting properly. The Right lion. measures of her Majesty's Government were laid before the
Baronet, the Member for Tamwerth (Sir Robert Peel), House they would then be able to judge hew far they
would
when he was the First Lord of the Treasury had to meet the present exigencies of Ireland, and how tar they would
deal with a calamity in Ireland of less magnitude go towards improving permanently the condition of that
coun-
however, than the one with which they were now sailed try by preventing the recurrence in future of such disasters.
orlon to deal. The circumstancee were, in fact, (efferent. Lord GEORGE BEN 11NCK then rose. He
said—ln
They were then living under a different state of answer to the eloquent sreech which had been
period ; and, in order to meet the the Right Hon. Gentleman who had just resumed his seat he
made
by
commerce than at that
difficulty in which the calsn,ity had placed him, he adopted could assure him, he believed, in the name ,
of all the
a very just and a very praiseworthy course.—( Cheers.) that side of the House that it was not their inte • parties on
He reduced the duty on Indian meal, which was at that shey had no desire to make lre . land the battle field of
'sewn, and that
time an article unknown, and prehibited in Ireland. It and his friends were deeply sensible, that her Ale party. He
imported in considerable quantities, and the Irish became ters bad been brought to the governmenti of IreesjfadiNiuna-
Was
accustomed to an article of food which was more nourishing circumstances of peculiar difficulty. --(Hear.) The felt under
and which consequently produced they had some share in putting them in possession ey felt that
than the potato,
excellent effects. The Rigl.t Honourable Baronet con- ritsh ghovernment at a period
_ef the sessios ,
n and so shortly
ducted that operation with the most entire secresy, eisi.r t is calamity came up.on Ireland, that they have
Loud cheers.) misters,, and to deal leniently with such not.
and though secret, it was successful.—(
the Go- had fair play in dealing with the matters with which
And, therefore, when the Hon. Gentleman blamed
_difficulties which
•followed the example of her Majesty's upon that country.—(Cheers). Andpress
vernment for not having for these
sons he felt that it wasi rea-
late Government in throwing supplies into Ireland from America, due from them t
he did not recollect that it was impossible to do so. The Hon. an indulgent eye upon the measures of here oak with
Majesty's
Gentleman had gone on to observe that the Government had they did not altogether concur. It would be •
sary for hum to state that he quite unneces-
not taken sufficient care to remedy the distress. He need not deeply sympathised with the dis-
remind the House that Isis Noble Friend had taken office tresses which had visited Ireland, and that they heartily
joinedh
at a late period in the past session. For a long in the concern which her Majesty had expressed for that
time before that the fo,•mer Ministers of her Majesty were country, and that they should be prepared to give the calamity
aware that the calamity which has since visited the country tand the measures proposed to relieve it, their earnest attention
Was rapidly approaching, they had accordingly taken such But, at the same time, they should be expected to peal
ilVagUre3 as they coalidered most beneficial, and tranklY, and Whilst they were not disposed to Fay

But he had taken advantage of all that had been done for him,
and had reduced the people of Ireland, by listening to their
cravings for land, to a purred population, spreading over the
whole land. After centuries of legislation, such was the con-
dition of the people of Ireland. He would ask the people of
England if they were prepared, not only to maintain the land-
lords of Ireland, as well as their paupers, that they had
created. He would say that it was the duty of the people
of England, and, he would add, the representatives of the
people of England, to insist that the landlords of Ireland should
maintain the people of that country. He was prepared to vote
for the people of Ireland the fullest equality of rights and laws,
and to sanction the Government in every endeavour to secure
the peace and welfare of Ireland. If the House of Commons
was prepared to give them frill and equal freedom, and allow
them, if they desired it, to govern themselves, he would be
quite reconciled. But he would not go beyond this. But he
could tell the landlords t,f Ireland how he would be prepared
to act. They were going to revise the Poor-law. Now there
was a clause which limited the operation of the Statute to
England and Wales. He would simply alter it to say, " Eng-
land, Wales, and also Ireland." That was all he would ask to
be done.--( Hear, hear). He would have this Act, of
which they had heard so much the law of Eli.
zalseth—extended to Ireland.—( Cries of Hear, hear.")
He would even be prepared to give the people of Ireland the
same number of representatives as England— ( Hear, hear)—
he meant the same number in proportion to the population ;
but he would also at the same time extend to them the same
taxation.—( Hear, hear.) He would have no reservation
when this were done ; he would settle with the people of Ire-
land, but he was not prepared to support any measure that
would tax the hard-working, peace-loving, law-obeying
people of England in support of a rude system of anarchy, in
that which was called the sister kingdom.—( Hear, hear. )
It had been stated by an Irish representative the other day
that the support proposed to be given to Ireland was to buy
Protestants in that country. Such was the way in which the
exertions of this country hail been treated. Ireland wanted a
representative—a man that really understood her in-
terests, and was disposed to promote her welfare—
( Hear, hear)—not a man who was actuated by feelings
of personal interests, of personal pelf, and of party ascendancy,
and to merge them all in advancing the interests of the people
of Ireland. They had not got such a man as the wants of
Ireland required, but they had got a man who had done every-
thing in his power to exaggerate the prejudices and excite the
passions of his countrymen.—(Hear, hear.) It was such a
man that presumed to be the representative of the people;
though he did not think he reflected aright the character of
Irishmen, for he (.tlr. Roebuck) considered those in the
union an honest people.—( Hear, hear.) But he wanted to
hear from the Government what they might expect to follow
hereafter. Was this system of relief to last for ever?
Because an evil has ;Sided Ireland, are 8,000,000 to come
crawling beggars craving the support of the people of
England, and exercise no energy and ability in order to do
something for themselves? From beginning to the end
there was nothing but a cry of sympathy for the
charity of the people of England. England was like
a benevolent lady in a parish, the policy she was pursuing
created around her a host of paupers.—( Hear, hear.) They
could not go beyond the passing benevolence they had hitherto
been in the habit of manifesting. To maintain eight millions
of people was totally impossible. He called on the Noble Lord
at the head of the Government to show how it was possible to
maintain eight millions of people by any Government regula-
tions. The great moving principle of the social system was
private, individual interest, and if they dislocated the machine,
it would be impossible for society to go on.—( Hear, hear.)
He called on the Noble Lord not to yield to the clamour of
his Irish supporter-, but to legislate for the people
of three kingdoms, and not for the advantage of one, and let
him stand out and support the great principle that the people
to be maintained, must maintain themselves.—( Hear, hear.)
If he departed from this rule, there would be no limit to the
dire calamities that would ensue. He knew how he would be
met by Irish Members—he would be told of starving men, and
of women and children dying from want of food. He did not
require to be told of these things to excite his commisseration
—he knew it all ; and he traced it all to the conduct of the
Irish landlord himself; abetted, no doubt, as he had
been by the Parliament of England by the course of
Legislature it had pursued. But he (Mr. Roebuck)
would give the Irish people an English poor-
law, ar.d give them equal laws and privileges. He was quite
prepared for the consequences of this step. The Irish landlords
had their estates deeply mortgaged, and the consequence
would be that nine out of every ten of them would be swept
out.—(Hear, hear.) But the mortgagees would have to step
in and take all the consequences of their position. They had
power to take the burdens upon themselves, and to submit to
the same arrangements as the English landlords. This was
all he would say to the House and the Noble Lord, on the mea-
sures of relief proposed by the Government. As to the tempo-
rary measure of opening the ports he was prepared to support it,
only it ought to have been done two months ago. He uid not
think it would do much, if any good now, but he was willing
to support it now in order to express his sympathy with the
people of Ireland, though he had none with the landlords. He
did not believe that the opening of the ports would increase the
supply of grain.—( Hear, hear ) He did not think there was
much surplus corn to be found anywhere either in Europe or
America. Neither did he think that much good would arise
from allowing the use of sugar and molasses in bi evveries and
distilleries, though he would not object to the measure, as he
was of opinion that the rise of these articles in the manner
named, should be allowed at all times. But when he asked
what they intended to do for Ireland, he could get no satisfac-
tory explanation. The Noble Lord who last addressed them
(Lord George Bentinck), spoke of a grand comprehensive
scheme which he had in view. He (Mr. Roebuck) was
excited when the Noble Lord thus spoke. He expected to
hear some great plan in connexion with which the
Noble Lord was about to come forward as the
regenerator of his country. He certainly expected to
hear of some grand panacea, some great discovery like the
gun-cotton, but patiently and intently as he had listened, he
had heard nothing that he could understand as to the course
he proposed. He hoped that the next time, when the Noble
Lord got up to criticise others he would condescend to en-
lighten them on his new plan—what he intended proposing
should he become the Chancellor of the Exchequer.—(Loud
cries of " Hear, hear.") He (Mr. Roebuck) had been much
disappointed : he had heard no proposition to meet the
starving condition of the people o: Ireland, come from
the Noble Lord.—(Hear, hear ) He was in a different
position to the Noble Lord. He represented no party, whereas
the Noble Lord dii. The Noble Lord was at the head of a
party in the House ; certainly not a powerful party, yet still
a party; and he (Mr. Roebuck), therefore, did think that it
was the duty of the Noble Lord to explain his scheme what lie
would be prepared to do, were he called in to be the state
physician.—( Laughter.) He was not yet called in, and if he
( Mr. Roebuck) were allowed to prophecy, he was nut likely
to be. Still, he should have told the House what
his grand panacea was to be.—( Hear, hear.) He
did not expect much from that quarter, and he
would now address himself to the established parties
in the House, to the parties Leaded by the Noble Lord and the
Right Hon. Baronet. He hoped that no Ministry would be
led away by the mischievous belief that it was possible for Go.
vernment to frame measures to maintain the people. The
business of Government was the protection of life and pro-
perty, and the rest should be left to private enterprise. If
they transgressed this rule, mischief must be the inevitable re-
sult, and Ireland would continue as it had hitherto been, the
curse of England. He believed that if they were to consider
their polies, and to frame their Acts as statesmen, they would
do all that it lay in their power to do, and all that as statesmen
they were called upon to do ; and with this remark he would
take leave of this part of the subject, and turn to another, on
which he was desirous of expressing his opinion. And he did
this now, as he was aware that an explanation was hereafter to
be made by the Ministers of the Crown, and he did not wish to
mix himself up with the dispute which that explanation would
be sure to excite. He took it, that to p-eserve
peace, was of the greatest moment not only to England,
but to all the world, and his desire, therefore, was
that peace might be preserved with France, but with
all the nations of the earth, and he therefore trusted that no
man, to serve any idle purposes of his own, would disturb the
peace of the world. It was evident that he was referring to
the late transactions in Spain respecting the marriages of two
young ladies—the Queen of that country and her sister, the
Infanta. With that matter, as he took it, they, as English
politicians, had nothing to do; but he regretted to find that
the Noble Lord the Secretaroy f State for Foreign Affairs had
thought proper to interfere. He trusted, however, that by
recalling his Lordshi ,'s attention to the true objects of political
controversy, that the mischief would be obviated. He would
remind him, therefore, that, as statesmen, they had nothing
whatever to do with the correspondence that might have ema-
nated from the Chateau d'Eu. They had nothing to do with
persons ; all they had to do with was that which had passed
between the Ministers of one country and another ; nor did he
consider that the private feelings of Ministers should interfere
in the settlement of national questions. He did not blame the
present Government. or desire that the Ministers of the
Crown should take notice of these matters ; but still he felt
bound to call their attention to the constitutional rights of
Europe, and, in doing this, he would repeat that he
conceived that, as politicians, they had.nothing whatever to do
with the private correspondence of private individuals. In
making these observations he wished it to be understood that
he did not make them under the impulse of those peculiar
principles respecting monarchical institutions which he was
supposed to hold.—( Hear, hear.) The sentiments he was
uttering were spoken as the sentiments of a monarchical states-
man. It appeared that the Noble Lord at the head of the
Foreign Department had taken some umbrage at the marriage
which had been eontracted by the Infanta of Spain with the
Duke ',of Montpensier, and a long correspondence had been
laid on the table upon that subject and the marriage of her
sister, the Queen of Spain. He did not wish to be a critic,
but he must say that nothing could be more cumbersome,
queer, or unsightly, or give greater evidence of
an unpractised hand than that correspondence.—(Laugh-
ter.) He did not wish to be a critic of words,
but a critic of fact.—( Renewed laughter.) It appeared that
the Noble Lord, from some small pique of his own, objected to
the succession of the issue of the marriage of the Infanta of
Spain with the Duke of Montpensier. He did not exactly see
the necessity or the policy of discussing the marriage of a young
prince of twenty-six, or its issue, by a person of the grave
appearance of his Lordship. He thought it rather out of
place.—(Laughter.) He trusted that the Noble Lord would
not suffer any private pique or personal umbrage to interfere
with his duties as a Minister of the Crown. The Noble Lord
depended on the peace of Utrecht. But what was the effect of
the peace of Utrecht ? He denied that it in any way affected
the case on the present occasion. By that treaty the Duke of
Orleans and the Duke de Berri had severally renounced for
themselves and their successors the title to the Crown of Spain.
Bolingbroke was at that time our physician, and M. Toussin
acted for France, and at that time Bolingbroke had insisted on
this particular article of the treaty. To this Toussin had ob-
jected, but at length told Bolingbroke he might take it, for the
two Dukes could not bind their successors. This was an evident
truism, but the Noble Lord seemed to have forgotten
affairs,
that
maxim so useful in private as "e
that sufficient for the day is the evil a
thereof,' in
estou'rbance was ne-
cessary. publicbut had been
willing to excite a disturbance where no di
It appeared that the Noble Lord felt that he bad
been done, and he (Mr. Roebuck)
rwas very much of that
was M. Guitot, and the
!pinion. ut the reat offen
Noble Lord B
could aot g
touch Guizot,and
Lordsofell upon the poor
pr.ncesses of Spain. Even if the Noble
we re right, cir-
cumstances were so changed that the treaty was quite inope-
rative. At the time that treaty was made there was a Ger-
manic empire, but there was no King of Bavaria, nil
King of Greece, no King of Belgium, and even no
-King of the French. Thus the state of Europe had
been entirely altered, and all the most distinguished writers
on international law, had agreed that a war had always annulled
a troaty, and that it bad become inoperative unless speciall
renewed, and that, too, in specific terms, for general terms
would not answer the purpose. The Noble Lord might have
recollected that a breach of this treaty, as he understood it,
had been committed by Louis XV., who married the Infanta of
Spain, and even by the present King of the French, who mar-
ried a Princess of Sicily, both being_ descendants of' the con-
tracting parties to the treaty of Utrecht. Again he would
simply call to their minds the circumstances which occurred
when Louis XIV. attempted to interfere with the succession to
the English throne. On that occasion the people rose as one
man, and he trusted those circumstances would prevent any
mischievous intermeddling—an
y personal pique, from breaking'
the peace of the world. He would sit down by merely express
ing a hope that Parliament would interfere to prevent the people
of England from being burdened for the support of the Irish
poor, or the peace of the world from being disturced 'ay any
small minded pique of the Noble Lord.
Mr. H, GRATTAN laid that the Hon, Member bad paid

that the Government had acted unwisely, in not calling Par-
liament together at an earlier period, or to censure them for
havi, g over-ridden the law ; they were disposed to say that
the measures which had been had recourse to, were not those
to which they had agreed.—( Hear, hear.) They had been
told that upwards of four hundred thousand persons had been
employed in works utterly useless—they had been told by
their Inspector-General ( Colonel Douglas) that the only
effect of these works had been to obstruct the public convey-
ances, and that, in consequence of the way in which the
Act had been administered, the people had been with-
drawn from the cultivation of the fields.—( Hear, hear.)
With respect to the supply of food, he could not agree in the
principles of political economy, which had been adopted by
the Right Hon. Gentleman. Ireland was a country where the
people had been accustomed to depend for their subsistence on
potatoes grown within a few yards of their own houses.
When such a calamity overtook the country, it was but reason-
able to expect that the Government would have broken
through its harsh rules of political economy, and taken mea-
sures for supplying the people with food, instead of leaving it
in the hands, f private dealers. The Right Hon. Gentleman
stated that her Majesty's Government. had done all that was
possible under the circumstances. He ( Lord G. Bentinck)
did not thick so, when the people had been starved to
death, and whole districts decimated, it would not satisfy him
to say, that everything that was possible had been done. He
had a letter in his pocket from the Protestant clergyman of
Skibbereeu, which stated that from the Ist of December to the
Istof
January,
ntehye
hSkibbereenworkhouse. ttese 140 deathspuo had takenrereature place
sstatedtha
t hthere that they might die under a roof, and be boned in a
coffin. On one Sunday there were 14 iunerals waiting for
burial in the churchyard of that parish ; in the adjoining parish
nine were waiting one Sunday ; and in two other parishes, six
were waiting at the same time.—(Hear, hear.) It could not
be said that the ;Topic had been supplied with food when such
scenes had occurred. In the barony of Skibbereen, which
contained 140 000 souls, 10,000 persons had perished from
famine —( Hear, hear.) At the present moment, between
300,000 and 41)0,000 quarters of wheat were lying at the
three per's of London, Liverpool, and Glasgow ; therefore,
what had prevented her Majesty's Government from sending
food to the west coast of Ireland to feed the starving people?
( Hear, hear.) In 1831, when Lord Stanley supplied the
people of that country with food, he succeeded in keeping
down the prices of food within reasonable rates, and if her
Majesty's Ministers had done the same thing with regard to
Indian meal now, he could not but think that they would have
reduced the enormous profits of the retailers and forestallers,
and would have prevented them from obtaining unduly high
prices. He saw that at the present moment Indian meal was
selling at New York at three shillings a bushel, while in Liver-
pool and Ireland it was selling at 99. a bushel, and he thought
that the Government might, under the circumstances, have
departed from their rigid notions of political economy, and
have supplied the people of the west coast of Ireland with
the food which they so much needed. Then again
he conceived that if the Ministry had encouraged the landlords
by giving the people employment in the improvement of their
estates, instead of the unproductive public works on which they
had been engaged, that there would have been much more
benefit than had been enjoyed from the expenditure of the
money. With respect to the compact that it was said had
been entered into between the agricultural party and the late
Government, he begged to relieve her Majesty's Government
of all doubt upon the subject. If there had been a compact
between the agricultural party and the late Government, it
had been endangered in 1842, and it was broken in 1846; and
he begged, therefore, on the part of those with whom he
acted, to repudiate the existence of any such compact now.—
( Cheers.) It was not their intention to oppose any obstacle
in the way of her Majesty's Ministers, in abrogating that por-
tion of duty upon corn. When, however, he said that, he did
not mean to admit that the repeal of that 4s. duty would con-
fer any benefit upon the consumer. It would occasion a loss
in the Exchequer of between 300,000 and 400,0001. But if
the Chancellor of the Exchequer thought that the
revenue was is so flourishing a state as to spare
that sum he (Lord Bentinck) had no ground to complain.
The fact was that the whole of that sum would go into the
pocket of those corn merchants and forestallers of whom the
people ot Ireland had such just reason to complain—(Cheers)
—or into the pockets of American merchants and agriculturists.
At New York the price of wheat was 405., and at Liverpool
it was 805., and it was into the pockets of those who were
making these enormous profits that the Government proposed
to put this extra amount of 4s. a quarter duty. He thought a
better course would have been to have kept the 4s. duty and to
have taken the product of it to feed the Irish people. With
reference to the navigation laws he would not oppose any tem-
porary suspension of them. There was one course yet open
for the Government to adopt, which was this :—there were
eight line- of•battle ships, measuring each about '2,500 tons,
and capable of carrying at least 2,000 tons of corn, and he
had been informed on the authority of an able seaman
in the British service, that if the Government would give
him a commission, in little more than twenty.four hours he
would take out the guns, batter down the boards, and caulk
the vessels, and go with them to the United States, and before
ten weeks had elapsed he would come back with 80,000 quar-
ters of corn. He was informed her Majesty's Ministers had
already employed, if the statements in the newspapers were
true, 84 ships, measuring 37,000 tons. But when they saw
that there was little or no grain in the country, and that the
people could not get what there was, because the corn mer-
chants would not sell it at a reasonable price, nothing ap-
peared to him so simple a remedy for the evil, as for her
Majesty's Ministers to employ their line-of-battle ships
now that all danger of war was at an end, and the Montpen-
sier marriage had been settled.—( Hear, hear.) Eighty thou-
sand quarters of corn by the ships making four voyages, which
might be done before the next harvest could be thus procured
for the relief of Ireland At that moment there were in bond
and in stock between 30,000 and 40,000 quarters of some
kinds of grain in the warehouses of London, Liverpool, and
Edinburgh and Glasgow, which, if sold, through the interven-
tion of the Government would no doubt lead to the reduction
of the price of grain and bring food within the reach of the
poor. He would not, however, second the Hon. Member for
Limerick in any impeachment of the Government. He would
now pass on to treat the other matters of her Majesty's
Speech. It was a matter of the greatest regret to the
country at large, that the recent intercourse—the recent
policy of the Noble Lord with the King of the French, had
been on bad terms, with whom it was of the highest
importance to this country to be on friendly terms. He was
glad to find the Noble Lord had protested against the Mont-
pensier marriage, and that the intercourse had now softened
down to the correspondence lie had seen in the newspapers.
He for one did not believe that the English people took any
interest in this Montpensier affair. The English sym-
pathies did not tend that way. If the conduct of Austria was
a manifest violation of the treaty of Vienna, what he should
like to ask was the severance of Belgium from Holland ? If
the Cracow business was an infra ction of the treaty, the treaty of
Vienna was torn to atoms when this country agreed to thesepa-
ration ot those countries ; and when England sent her line..
of-battle-ships to blockade the coast of Holland whilst the
French were engaged in cannonading the walls of Antwerp.
It was not for him to enter more fully into the merits of the
case. He, for one, could not so deeply sympathise with the
people of Cracow, and he believed, that if the truth were
known, that the people of Cracow—the well disposed, the
loyal people, and those who wished for peace, are greatly de-
lighted with this incorporation with a power ul ally. lion.
Gentlemen might smile, but he believed that it would prove
greatly for the advantage of that country, which now, for the
last sixteen years, had been in a state of continual alarm, and
HethheaeSepeech, he
however strongly the press of foreign countries might write,
the effect appears to be this, that the news of the incorpora-
tion was received by the people of Cracow with ac-
clamation and general illumination. With respect
,endtAhhtieleriarnartitt_heeeariy:t
sttt
trusted
ux:eetstsehtdthehaat
tttohht
Ireland
rteeGrl
aotnybedeprawnrma measurest
was to
ofGovernment
bt
ee hernrde
iegmde i
ipp
eruirslaepatdej
ees
dis
nt_bgy
y',
regenerated—(Hear,
would fully equal the emergency. Respecting therp
mustwould
sometuh great
rne aattumr ee asas
measure,
roe
, b y encourage
which thee ap i
ta employmentw would
ld be i
nol
cdaupcietda l
to
on Ireland.pou r
in t 0 Itt
hwea s e noteu n t br
country.
labourHe orhe
ppeodo r
the e m imi l oeyaons
measures
would be such as would be entitled to his support ; but
if the Government did not introduce such a measure,
then he gave notice that he would, at the
earliest opportunity bring forward a large
But
dthiceomßptgrehhteHnsuinve
damity, to which the
measure for that purpose.—(Cheers.) B an
Gentleman feared that the calamity wasl not alone an evil-
overtakennf sentiment.
He
Majesty's
a affectingtd u a l
parties lreland
in; i t
the wase empire
r e imperial
should' bcea
had
Geo. Bentinck) concurred in that
Government would have their (the protectionists) support
thatthem.—(
Hear, hear. )
in
nhe assistingeii thatthe landlordshcountry in meeting
If they came down to that House on a
employment of the Irish people
in the
justification of their
e extremity of distress
on unproductive works, he- believed th
sistance of the pa ey would have the as-
rty with whom he acted ; but, at the same
t me, he thought it but right to state that Chia was an exception
to the rule, and that Irish property, of
one
another, should be found to
maintain the Irish poor. They
thought it hard that the Parliament or he
Government ot
you
England should step in and sayshallt
people—
you shall feed the I employ the
peop e, while they are engaged on works that
will make no return of food.
Mr. ROEBUCK wished to give
expression to a few words
which he thought would be of service to the House and the
country. He deeply in .
sympathised the miseries of the people
of Ireland. Not having heard any explanation from the Noble
Lord or his colleagues, be warned the House against the danger
of altering that which shall be a. mere temporary expedient into
a permanent mischief for the country. lie was quite aware
that the sympathies of the people might be appealed to on their
behalf. He knew what it was to come begging from Ireland.
Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN—Oh, oh.
Mr. ROEBUCK—Yes, and he said it advisedly, and before
he was done he would illustrate his position by many illustrious
er:mples. He gave great credit to the measures of the Right
Hen. Baronet opposite (Sir R.Peel), for the measures which
he had adopted to meet the case of Ireland while at the head
of the Administration. But there was a mischief attending
all those measures. He (Mr. Roebuck) contended that no
Government
could propose to itself the task of feeding the
people. The legitimate consequence of not admitting the
force of this axiom was a fruitful source of all that cant de-
tailed in the newspapers which told them that the people had a
right to labour and to provisions. lie denied both propositions.
They could not as a Government provide labour for the people,
or pretend to pay them for it. They bad it in history that the
aristocracy of Rome paid the people ; and what was the con-
sequence of the adoption of such a measure? Ruin was
then, and ever would be, the inevitable consequence.
He could not help pointing out the affliction which would be
brought upon this country if we were to pay the Irish people.
He was aware that in doing so he should bring harsh expres-
sions upon himself,
.but, as a duty to the people of England
whom he represented, be was prepared to meet the obloquy
which would thus attach to him, and to say that the people of
Ireland should not be paid at the expense of the people of
England. For one year, or for any specified period, he would
contribute all he possessed to maintain the people of Ireland
for that space, but it was a permanency that they had now to
meet. Last year they anticipated the famine, and the Right
Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) to whom he begged to express
his gratitude, did all he could to prevent the mischiefs which
might accrue from that famine. It had come again this year,
and it was aggravated because of the knowledge that
England would provide food for every brawling
demagogue who wanted to exacerbate the misery of
his country. It was known that England would come forward
now as she had done, and England was prepared to meet any
nature, but he protested
possi •ble contingency of a temporary
against a permanent provision d
for the Irish people. An now
a word about Irish landlords. He had no doubt that what he
might say would . excite hitter feelings asainst him. Let, not
his Hon. Friend (Mr. Bernal) be at all hurt at the notion.
the
(Mr. Bernal made some observation which did not reach
gallery.) That was an Irish landlord of a sudden.—
(laughter.) Those, said the Hen. Gentleman Bernal—those were th great cm
with
Ir
ish
landlords 1 rish
phasis. pointing towards Mr. .
ent had been legislating
landlords for whom the British Parham .
tslating against the
for the last 300 years. They had been leg
people of
Th
Ireland,and for their own personal purposes.
e
landlords of Ireland, with the aid of the
British Parliament,
inflicted great mischief on the people of th t acountry. The
estate fit only f or paupers
Irish landlord built cottages on his
in order that he might get a per centage from the rent o
them. It there were a proper poor law in Ireland he would not
do so. He had been told that the Irish landlord did not do this,
but he had done it, and built house upon house for a
pauper population for whom he had done nothing. He had
been legislated for by the House of Commons, and all sort of
privileges had been granted to bibs by Act of ?aliment.