The Sun.
London, England, 1824-02-27 00:00:00

CHURCH RATES IN IRELAND.

Mr. GOULBURN moved for leave to bring in a Bill to
amend the Act relating to the collecting of Church Rates in
Ireland.

After a few observations from Sir J. NEWPORT, the motion
was agreed to.

AUSTRIAN LOAN.

Mr. lIUME said that his object in moving for returns rela-
tive to the Austrian Loan was to ascertain why his Majesty's
Government came to any agreement respecting so large an
amount as 2,500,0001., without having some documents to lay
before the House. The letter of the Treasury only stated that
the offer of the Contractors had been accepted. He wished to
have the letter of the Contractors in which that offer was made.
Ile moved that There be laid before the House a Copy of the
Proposals made by Reid, Irving, and Co., Baring and Bro-
thers, Rothschild and Co., for the payment of 2,500,0001. into
his Majesty's Exchequer on behalf of the Austrian Govern-
ment, referred to in a Copy of a Treasury Minute, dated 12th
of October, 1823.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he had
hoped that what passed upon this subject, on a former debate,
would have proved satisfactory to the House. If the Hon-
ourable Member wanted a precedent for the transaction, he
was afraid he could not gratify him on that head, as no
such a case had ever before occurred to the Treasury. The
Austrian Government had proposed to discharge the debt by
giving a certain amount of Austrian stock • and had we ac-
cepted it we must have taken it to market with -the prospect of
an indifferent sale, liable to every chance and fluctuation.—
It was therefore thought bettei to obtain money :'-and it then
became necessary for the Austrian Government to apply to
the capitalists of this-country 'to raise the money. 'Much cor-
respondence and discussion took place, and in the result these

capitalists stated their riltimatunz, beyond which they would
not go in the way of money. His Majesty's Government were
obliged to take it ; though, undoubtedly, they would have been
glad to get more. For what had been done Ministers were cer-
tainly responsible; and, if the House thought they had done
wrong, would say so. But there was not the least occasion to
produce papers, the call for which appeared to have originated
in a mistake of Hon. Gentleman.

Mr. HUME explained.—The answer given by his Right
Hon. Gentleman admitted that of which he (Mr. 1-1.) had Com-
plained. He contended that the stock ought to have been put up
k publicly for sale, in order to get the highest possible bidding.
Mr. BARING said, the communication on which the bar-
gain had been struck was made verbally, and there was there-
' fore no paper which contained it. As to the selling the pro-
posed stock by tender, alluded to by the Hon. Gentleman, this
Government had no option whatever. The bankers of Vienna
were parties to a former Loan to the Austrian Government,
by the terms of which no further Loan could he now negociated
but through them ; and they would not consent to a public
sale. He could assure his Hon. Friend that there was neither
reserve nor mystery about the transaction—(hear, hear !)_and
that any papers which he (Mr. B.) had, he was perfectly will-
ing to shew him, though he considered their formal production
to the House as uncalled fur and unnecessary.
Mr. MABERLY observed, that he coincided in opinion
with the Chancellor of the Exchequer as to this debt, that what
we had recovered of it was a God-send. And he could not but
admit (whatever might be his opinion of the Emperor of Aus-
tria touching Spain) that his Imperial Majesty had on this
occasion acted like a Prince of the highest honour; as he might,
with at least an appearance of justice, have escaped from the
whole of the debt. The fact was, that it ought to have been
brought forward at the Treaty of Paris, and the liquidation of
it have been pressed as one of the articles of that treaty.
Mr. Secretary CANNING entirely concurred in opinion
with the Hon. Gentleman, as to the praiseworthy conduct of
the Emperor of Austria. But he believed that the motion of
the Hon. Member proceeded entirely from misapprehension ;
for that Hon. Gentleman seemed to think that his Majesty's
Government had the stock in hand, and could therefore take it
to market. This was not so. The Austrian Government of-
fered stock, but we wanted money; and the question then
was, how the Austrian Government should convert the stock,
into money ; and was therefore a qustion entirely between those
monied men and the Austrian Government. The British Go-
vernment never had the stock as a marketable commodity; and
on the whole he though the House would be of opinion with
him, that the value of the stock would have been deteriorated,
had any course been taken than that which had been.
Mr. HOBHOUSE wished to know what was the actual
amount of the money that was to be paid into the Treasury,
according to the arrangement that was made ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated the
actual amount to be 2,200,0001.
Mr. JAMES complained that the money so long kept back
by Austria should be so much diminished as it must be by the
per centage allowed to the contractors.
The motion was then negatived without a division.
POSTAGE RATES.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the ExcHEQuzs.
the House went into a Committee on the Postage Rate Bill,
and the House being in a Committee,
Mr. HERRIES proposed that Bankers should be enabled to
convey Bank Notes in letters not less than six ounces weight at
a reduced postage. The object was to assist Bankers in the
save conveyance of their Notes, without affecting the Revenue
to any great extent.—The motion was agreed to.
Mr. HERRIES moved also a Resolution for the Rate of
Postage to South America.

Mr: BARING thought the Rates too high.
Mr. BERRIES said they were taken from an old standard.
This motion and ethers, relative to the object of the Bill,
were agreed to.

NEWSPAPERS.
Mr. HUME submitted that the conveyance of Newspapers
to our Colonies ought to be facilitated as it was when they were
sent to Ireland. This would increase the Revenue by the
stamps on the aditional circulation which would take place
by the reduction of the postage. His proposal might also be
beneficially extended to the conveyance of colonial newspa-
pers to this country. The Hon. Member moved a Resolution
accordingly.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the fees
of postage on Newspapers formed part of the emoluments of
Mr. Fueling, the able and deserving Secretary of the Post
Office.—( H ear, hear !)—The Hon. Member would -probably
withdraw his motion, as the subject of it was under the conside-
ration of the Post-office Committee.
Mr. lIUME hoped that the Treasury would have a power
in this Bill to adopt the proposal, if the Report of the Committee
should be favourable. He did not wish to pass the motion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought the
last suggestion very singular and Unreasonable.
uNE W POST--OFFICE.
Mr. J. MARTIN asked whether all the money voted for
building the new Post-office had been actually advanced ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said part it had been paid into the Exchequer by the City of Londoil,---
The work was going on, though it would not be necessary to
call on Parliament for money this year. A city bond for
40,0001. was in the hands of the Postmaster-General, for the
purposes of the Act.
Mr. BARING asked had the City contributed their share
originally fixed upon.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER answered in
the affirmative.

Mr. Alderman WOOD said the City was full 100,0001. out
of pocket.
The Motion was then withdrawn ; the House resumed ; and
the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow.
• The Mutiny Bill was read a second time, and committed foe
Monday.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and at
Half-past Ten the House adjourned.

MEETING OF SURREYMAGISTRATES.

Yesterday the Adjourned Sessions for the
County_ of Surrey was held at the Sessions House, Newington-
The Hon. GREY BENNET presided as Chairman. Besides
the County Members, a very full attendance of the other Gen-
tlemen in the Commission were present.
The object of the Meeting was to discuss and settle the rake
and regulations for the government of the county prisons, form-
ed under the restriction of a recent Act of Parliament for the
management of prisons generally.
Mr. RANDLE JACKSON, in alluding to the time appropriat-
ed to the education of the juvenile prisoners, said, it was the
desire of the Chaplains of the House of Correction at Brixton,
that a greater discretionary power should be given-to the visit-
ing Magistrates in order that those youhts who were working
at the tread-mill for the stipulated number of 'hours restricted
by the regulations, might be taken from their labour, for a cer-
tain portion of that time, for the purpose of being educated and
instructed in their religious and moral duties.
Mr. BRISCOE supported the proposal, and after some con-
versation, it was discovered that by the rules as they stood, this
power wal*4 dready vested in the Ill'agistrates.
On the subject of the quantum of punishment inflicted in-
discriminately by working at the mill,
Mr. HOLME SUMNER said, that the Report of the Prison
Discipline Society, lately published, had treated the subject in
a very judicious and scientific manner.
In allusion to the dietary table established in the prison, the
same Gentleman observed, that he could not help thinking, that
in the prisons, as they were now conducted, many of the pri-
soners received more comforts and luxuries whilein confine-
ment, than while at large.
A discussion of some length took place on the Bench, on the
propriety or legallity of putting persons to a compulsory la-
bour, who were only committed for trial, on which
The Hon. GREY BENNET observed, that the Secretary of
State had coincided with him that it was contrary to the inten-
tions of the Legislature that prisoners should be put to the
tread-mill before trial.

Mr. H. SUMNER throught that by the improved mode of
discipline about to be adopted, punishment might be appor-
tioned according to the scale of crime.

The Court afterwards proceeded with the examinatiou of
the other regulations, after which the Meeting adjourned.

BIRTHS.

On the 23d inst., at Dundalk (Ireland), the Lady of Jame*
J. Brett, Esq., of the 7th (or Princess Royal's) Dragoola
Guards, of a son. _

On the 26th inst., Mrs. Hulk, of Laurence Pountshey-lancf
of a daughter.
On the 26th inst., at Lower Tooting, Surrey, Mrs. Robert,
Hoggart, of a daughter.