The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-26 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 1841

MORNING _EDITION.

save the whole subject before them before they ! those with whom he had the honour to act, that (Hear, from the Ministerial benches.) If, however, it
proceeded to debate it, and he accordingly requested Ihe believed, on the contrary, they had every were to end in that, although he should be sorry to see
the Noble Lord to postpone the consideration of the 1 wish to preserve inviolate the settlements made his countrymen despoiled by false pretences, he would
one Bill until the other should be printed.—( Hear, in 18d9 or 1831. For himself he (Mr. Gaskell) was not have taken the trouble of rising on
thehe sawmo most serioust that the
character.
ntteirre.
hear.) This was a request so reasonable in itself that an anxious well-wisher to the cause of Roman Catholic that occasion.
he felt convinced that when the discussion came on to- Emancipation long before he had the honour of a seat proceeding
was
one But
of
morrow the Noble Lord would accede to it, and he in that House, and long before that question was Statements were made in a speech lately by a certain
thought it would be much better that the Noble Lord carried by the Right lion. Member for Tamworth. Irish county Member, which he (Colonel Coriolly)
should at once say that he would not proceed with the But it was perfectly true that they did regret the course held it unworthy of him to notice.—((Cries of
Bill to-morrow. pursued by a certain party in Ireland since the settle- " Hear, hear.") He (Colonel Connolly) contended
Mr. FOX MAULE thotght that when the ques- ment in 1809. But they did net confound the great that it was the gross demoralization of the people, the
tion came on he should be able to show the House suf- body of the Roman Catholics of Ireland with their monstrous striding of perjury over the land, that called
ficient reason for proceeding with the second reading. then prominent and self-elected champion.—CHear,hear.) on the Members of her Majesty's Government to make
Mr. HODGES obtained leave to bring in a Bill to For it they did, they might be disposed to return that show of legislation which they on the present ocea-
exempt inhabitants from liability to be rated, as such, to- to the settlement from which that concession was skit :exhibited. It was,- he insisted, but a show
wards the relief of the poor, and to declare the effect made, to enact measures which would invite the of legislation. He spoke of their actions and not of
and operation of an Act of the 6th and 7th Will. IV., epithets which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman their professions. It was but a mockery to bring in a
intituled, " A.n Act to Regulate Parochial Assess- had lavished of old on the Coercion Bill. Bill for the purpose of keeping out that of his Noble
ments," so far as respects tithes and tithe commutation In the present state of this country and of Ireland, he Friend the Member for North Lancashire. He (Col.
rent-charges. (Mr. Gaskell) avowed at once that he would give his Connolly) was sorry to hear an Irish county Member,
Lord JOHN RUSSELL obtained leave to bring in consent to no measure which he believed would tend fur whose opinions on most subjects he entertained the
a Bill to make further provision respecting certain rights either to continue agitation in the one country or to highest respect, say that the meeting held a short tine
of voting in the election of Members of Parliement, strengthen the influence of democracy in the other. ago in Belfast would not be so great if the object of
REGISTRATION OF VOTERS (IRELAND) and it was because he believed the Bill then on the the Noble Lord's (Lord Stanley) Bill was not disfran-
BILL. table of the House tended directly to effect those ob- chisement. lie thought that in almost every case re-
On the motion that the Order of the Day for re- jects, because he saw in the Bill a fatal sepa. lative to Ireland that Honourable Gentleman's views
suming the adjourned debate be now read, ration from the principles of the Reform Bill. were well taken, but be could not agree with
Lord MORPETH presented petitions from Castle- and not wily so, but a vain and fruitless attempt to con- him in what he stated on the subject. The
blaney, in the county of Londonderry, in favour of the ciliate the determined enemies of the connection he- Bill never wculd have been brought in „t all but
Bid introduced by his Lordship, and against that tween the two countries that he gave his hearty ()pp°. for the goading of the Tories.--(Loud cheers and
sition to the motion that it should he read a second laughter.) He was delighted with the Right Hon.
brought in by Lord Startle!.
Mr. SOMERS presented several petitions from tiare.—(Ciwers.) Baronet the Member for Pembroke last night,
Skrteite and other places in Inland, praying. the House ner, I,7ll,Ln:tits STUART said if any answer when lie stated that it was merely a repetition
to adopt the Bill of Lord otter/wow, and reject that of was necessary to tiic charge of the Hon. Gentleman, of the appropriation clause. Now the Honour_
Lord Stanle
who had just sat down, of undue influence Naviny g been able and Learned Gentleman, the Member for
.
Mr. M. BELLEW presented petitions from sever ;1 exercised, lie might refer to the speech of the Right 1100. Diddle, said the voice of I7Clarld was raised agninst the
places in Louth ith a similar prayer.
Baronet ol last night for an answer t'i that charge. measure, but as personation was the order of the day,
w
Mr. KELLY said that, understanding the Orders of From the best attention he was able to give to the he, on the part of Ulster, would take leave to deny it
the Day had been c„lled on, and that the Noble Lord ergureents of the Hon. Members opposite they seemed altogether. It was, in fact, nothing but a Bill to fill the
the Secretary for the Colonies had chosen which of the to him to ground their opposition to the Bill pockets of the Hon. and Learned Member for Dub
Orders of the Day should have the priority, he (Mr. on the plea that it was a subversion of the great prin- lin.—(011, oh.) It was but a fresh stratagem to
Kelly) would take the liberty of stak; that it had been ciples of the Reform Bill. They appeared to think fan the espirineb flame of liberality on the part of the
certainly his intention, in case the Order of the Day for that the principle of that measure veils the establish- followers of the Hon. and Learned Member, when
the second rending 'A the B 1! for the Abolition of the ment of a franchise based upon a certain amount of t:thcs, and municipal corporations, aed all else had
'Punishment of Death had beer, called on, to have moved property. Now, it appeared to him that they tuok failed.—(lronical cheers.) The Hon. and Learned
the second reading of that Bill, in the hope that it would too narrow a view of that measure, and that they were Member might deride what he had to say, but the
-suit the convenience of the House, and to allow that turning details into principles. His view of the Reform story was not half told.—(Cheers and much laughter.)
Bill to he read a second time pro forma. He wished, it-et, was, that it was passed for the purpose The Irish landlords would not grant leases to their
then, to ask if the Noble Lord the Secretary for the of remedying great evils that then existed tenantry, it was said, but why should they, when then
Colonies had a right to fix which of the Orders of in the constituency of Ireland,—that it was necessary found them arrayed in opposition to them at the hue.
,) enlarge that constituency, and the great principle tine ?—(Lourl cheers.) No doubt he should be charged
the Day should be pro( ceded with.
The SPEAKER said, that according to the rules of , cilibediad in the measure, was that a certain pro- with great illiberality of sentiment, but, thank God, he
the Route time Orders of the day fir Wednesday were Portidn of population and property shouhl be did not live within the limits of the g-re it p wentate—
proceeded with in the replier order in which they stood ; brought to bear on the election for Members (Mach laughter)—and if the Hon. and Learned Mem.
chat on Mondays and Fridays the Government Or-?ors of Parliament.—(Hear, hear.) Teat he took to be the her came to Dovegel his reception would not be better
lied precedence, and twit there was no precise rule for teal principle ; but as to the reou'ation of the amount than it heti been at Belfast. Why, when it was known
Thersda y• lof the property, that he considered merely a detail. that he and his brigade were about to go to
13elest
•
Lord XII N RUSSELL said that he could net With that view he should endeavour to show that the to dictate what measures were to be adopted, and what'
allow the second reading of the Bli of which the lion. c'etAils then established had net answered the purpose, measures were to be repudiated, it roused the energies
Member (Mr.:Kelly) had made mention, to pass without sad that it was necessary that a new plan should be of the county against teem. They derided tee country
making opposition to it. It, however, the second read- tubttituted. He should endeavour to show the gentlemen, they abused the landlord., and decried the
jog was carried lie (Lord J. Russell) would give no op- Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire that magistrates, ao 1, in short, everything tl,at. was cunsidere I
positiou to it in its next stage. the plan which he proposed for the registration of 10/. respectable in the country was the subject of their abut°.
ADJOURNED DEBATE. freeholders could not be efficiently carried into effect. He The Irish peeple did not want leases from landlords
The Order of the Day having been read, understood that the Noble Lord agreed with the Judges whose words they could depend upon, a, certainly as they
Mr. GASKILL said, after the length to which the that the solvent tenant test was the one to be applied, could upon any document, and they always trusted to the
debate had already gone, and after so many eminent Now let them suppose a case of a farm of 30 acres let landlords, except in some county where the spirit of in-
subordination had been introduced by some club or some
by a good landlord, who, however, wished t 3 get the
and legal gentlemen who were much better enabled to
agitator who endeavoured to tet the people against their
enter into its detail., it would be unpardonable in him value of his property ; such afa would let for 30/.
best frien!s, the landlords. Tte landlords her done their
a year, or 1/. per acre. Suppose the tenant had to detain the House at any length. But a ques•
duty to the country, when the Government had
shrunk
it on alease of fourteen years—he went to the tion ha I been asked out of doors, and had from theirs. The Government had shrunk befote and
I to, the agitators, while the landlords' had
Registration Court, where he would in all probability seeenntbe
never yet been answered in that House—how did it
be placed on the register as the solvent tenant test
'mope, that the Ministers of the Crown—that those boldly stood out and opposed them—had protected the
could not be applied but on an appeal being people against them, and bad asserted their own natural Gentlemen who procured the assent of that Ilouse to
made to the Judge, who would apply the sol- rights. They had done so in a manlier so effectual
,the Reform Bill as a final measure, now canto down and
asked the assent of the House to a Bill that would vent tenant test ; he could not see how such that in a short time not even such a measure as this would
totally change the whole constituency of Ireland ? If a name could be retained on the register, be sufficient to enable a Whig Government to rest upon an
they had been told during the last Session, that the for no man could swear that he could give him 10/. a Irish majority for carrying out their radical principles. The
:1 eir beyond the rent, after paying for all his out- Irish landlords bad done themselves immortal honour by
Government would come down with such a pro-
goings, without deducting from his own fair pro- resisting this despotism, while the Irish Government had
position—if they had beea told, that in place of. set-
tits : but it might be said that the ambition of land. degradelt themselves,cb by prostrating themselves before the
thug a disputed question—that in place of at_ tits
would induce them so to act as to keep up
1 aGgitlialanot"EoiOnel hadrs)
c[oinccwluadsesdured that Hon. and
tempting to remove acknowledged evils, by a Bill
the constituency, but how was that to be effectee ?,MarndHocwonsred-
for that purpose alone—they chose to embroil quently several Members rose. Amongs speech,
Suppose an estate of ten thousand acres, divided into
it with a question which would increase the evils, and there was a loud call for " the new Member." Colosnel
three hundred farms, and let at one pound an acre.
and that by a Bill which they knew they could sever Conolly, however, amidst roars of laughter, turned to-
carry.—(Cheers.) Such an intimation would have Now, if the landlord of such an estate was actuated wards the Speaker, and said—" Sir, lam sorry that Hon.
found leer to credit it. He was confirmed in that by ambition and a wish to see his tenants upon Members are so impatient, but lam afraid I must detain
impression when he recollected what took place the register, he could only gratify that iambi- them a great deal longer."] The Honourable and
during last Session—(Hear, hear)—when he re• tion by lowering their rents 101. a year on each Gallant Colonel thee went on to say—He had long
-
opposed membered that that same Government had opP
farm, at a loss of upwards of 3,000/. a year. been in Ireland in a prcetical station of life.—
the Hon. and Learned Member ter Dublin, when He could not imagine how the constituency could exist (Laughter from the Ministerial bend:et. ) Yes, in a prac-
he
moved for leave to bring in a Bill to make an alteration
et all with the solvent tenant test. But the Noble fecal station of li W. Gentlemen might ridicule the ex-
in the franchise, and that further they had opposed a Lord had said that was the test he had intended
pfressolsointieaes
Imebuocohras tiltiednd pleased. His life bad teen one
bre,etnosspo
waseyn,tliaomong the lower
proposition much less objectionable and unreasonable,
under the Reform Bill, and that his present Bill
oordPers ; and he w•ould Teet 5
viz.—the motion of the HOD. Member for Bridport to was intended to carry the Reform Act into effect. The tuous it might appear, that no
mw Lowr ee re
oPnr ev
es ur
iirna P
one et
oesume the House when they were in Committee Bill of the Noble Secretary for Ireland was, with them than himself. If ever there eat anything hi-
son Lord Stanley's Bill, in order that a clause however, the best remedy for the evils of which furious in the way of legislation fur Ireland it- was
;might be introduced for defining the franchise. they all so loudly complained.—( Hear, hear.) the 40s. freeholds. He had said it over and over
The Right Hon. Gentleman the Vice-President of the He was no lover of unnecessary change, more especially again in that House, and the last time he said it
Board of Trade, who had concluded the debate last in such a Bill as the Reform Bill. But if it was found the predecetsorof the present Speaker, Lord Dundernline,
night, made, as he invariably did, a very eloquent that the object of that Bill, which was the extension of appeared so struck with what be said.—(Loud laughter
speech, but he was bound to say that speech contained the franchise, bad not been carried into effect, he from the Ministerial side of the House.) When Hon. '
M thought it was no improper change to bring in aembers had done laughing, he would finish what he had
no answer to any one of the charges preferred against
Lord Dunfermline called upon him, and said that
ntetlhoolr
the
eo which
.l Lord Chancellor
the Government by the Right Hoo. Baronet the Bill for the purpose of carrying out the intentions
evils
re Ireland.f _(Hear,
Member for Pembroke.—( Hear, hear, hear.) The of its friends. The Bill of the Noble Secretary for l'loi' os say. Lord
hlorea preciselya tt ri Right lion. Baronet had adduced distinct and specific Ireland removed the greatest evils which now existed, bear.) YHon. Members, is tilcir
charges against the Government. He had charged namely, fraud and personification , and it gave a fair test of great number of paupers, sought tos introodueceeraaaseuhbidsibvis
them with mis-applying the patronage of the Crown, the value of any claim that was laid to the franchise. sion of lands so minute, that no man who had a family to was one evil, however, which it did not remove : support could supply them with the common decencies wid
and giving a direct encouragement to the agitation for
Repeal of the Union in Ireland. He had charged that was the present objection to give leases to the necessaries of life. That would be the result of the sys-
them with conferring posts of honour and tenants, but that was an objection which he tern which was sought to be introduced. He had tat as a
emolument on the disturbance of the public thought could be well considered in Committee. There Poor-law Guardian for one of the largest unions in Ire-
peace.—(Hear.) How was that charge repelled by the was one other reason why they ought to consider the land; and he was of opinion, that if the 5/. rating was
Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman, and who was selec- Bill in Committee. It was well known that there was adopted as the basis of the franchise, the freeholders would
ted to repel it ? It was the Right Hon. and Learned a great demand and much competition for land in Ire- not be able to procure for their families the food necodary
bto support them. He (Colonel Conolly) had always la-
Gentleman—himself a Minister of the Crown—and who land. It was equally well known that there were
had voted in his place in Parliament for the dismember- very many needy landlords—(A laugh)—and therefore hoeuhraeddLoeenlarge the holdings of every person with whom
bcioenendeocr
efforts
to
sprneatdotuheaohdolpzund! wouldl elaondoot re-
didpa y him fora
ment of the empire. That Right Hon. Gentleman the latter were anxious not to give leases, in order
to make the most they could by the competition.— a larger surface.—( Hear, hear.) The nagossinfrreehold wasr
not deny the truth of the charges made, but merely
contented himself with attempting to fasten a charge of (Hear, hear.) That, however, might be remedied in considered one of the greatest boons that had ever been
inconsistency on two Members of the House. That Committee. The Committee might strike out conferred upon the people of Ireland. Hon. Gentlemen
ebarge may have meant something as evincing such a sum as might obviate the difficulty, opposite said that Members on his (Colonel Conolly's)
a soreness at least of the loss of their services on for he was not confined to the 5/. clause—(Tory side of the House intended to abrogate the Bill by which
the other side of the House.—(Hear, hear.) But if cheers)—nor did he bind them ; therefore he was in- that boon was conferred. He would never have voted for
s.
the charge were taken as a %dedication of the Govern- duced to hope that some even of the Gentlemen op-
the extinction of the 40 freeholders, but rather would
meat, it meant absolutely nothing ; and he might be posits would give their support to the second reading he vote for their revival than for the creation of a worse
permitted, with all respect for the Right Honour- of the measure. class of voters in their place. Oa the Catholic question,
on the Reform Bill, and on the present question, there had
able and Learned Gentleman, to tell him that the Colonel CONOLLY rose to resist to the utmost been aplus pant Punic,: fides on the part of the Gown,
mere fact of his rising upon the ether side as the Bill of the Noble Lord. He objected, as the Noble went— ( Hear, heat)—who constantly roared out, attribut-
a Minister of the Crows formed in itself a suffi- Lord, the Member for North Lancashire did, in limine, ing motives which never existed, on these question,,' t
cient vindication of the course taken by the Noble to the irreconcilability of the measure itself with Gentlemen siting upon the Opposition side of the House,
Lord
the Member for North Lancashire, and the the name of the Bill—that under the colour of de-
—( Hear, hear.) The landlords of Ireland had for some
• Right Hon Baronet the Member for Pembroke,— fining the franchise, it really and practically annihi- time past been endeavouriog to improve and simplify the
(Opposition cheers.) The Right Honourable and fated the qualification. But he confessed that he tenure of land, so as to raise the condition of the °cm:-
Learned Gentleman concluded his speech with a had long feared the Noble Lord would introduceon the
piers; bat this measure would throw them back u
protestation of his loyalty, while he accompanied some such measure, though the lowering of the franchise old system of degrading the tenantry for poli-
spko thereiitthke.oori
,eI,
re.
oi nidifltei;l3
oatutent upon
tiyel—l (en, Ireland
htehaer .
)g re ail' tes t
wouldcvils,
ticalldpurposefs.—(Crivs of " Hear, bear.") The measure
that protestation with a significant intimation, that would be most injurious to Ireland. When the
while France was arming, the popular demands in Noble Lord opposite (Lord Morpeth) replied to the moral,vel
so ou
a Ireland, however unreasonable, should be conceded. Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin, upon his
mbfers rether they would
The Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman did not, application to bring in a BM for the purpose consent to degradics,
however, tell them what had been the effect of the of assimilating the franchise of England and they had bean elected, and letass ino a Id0oodvootfe?" by
whom
persons s
theo n s who
40.
concessions made to the popular party in Ire- Ireland, he (Colonel Conolly) then fearfully would be many degrees more dependent than
land during the last four years. The Right Hoo. apprehended, that though the Noble Lord resisted freeholders, and who would be in a worst condidon by.
Gentlemen had not told them that extorted concessions the application, be would be borne down by that the possession of the franchise thee they were before ?
had been the means of quieting and removing the agi- powerful pressure to which he was obliged in all The object of the Hon,. and Learned Member for Dub-
tation. The Right Hoe. Gentleman did not tell theca cases to submit. Sorry, indeed, was he, that those lire was to destroy eYeeything constitutional and conserve-
bow.vo while. attempting to bolster up a decrepid and totter.
the assurances of contentment and gratification, fears had been realised,—sorry was he that the Noble
The Hon. and Learned Gentleman was
"lig l'iltlesillsrotruYs• o extinguishing the Orangemen ; but he
made by himself and others in 1829, had been realized. Lord had not been able to bold his own ground against
He (Mr. Gaskell) was glad that her Majesty's Minis- his powerful master ; and that he ha-I been obliged a Colonel could not account for tale anxiety of
ters had been compelled by the pressure of their Par- to concede those very principles he then so file Hon. Conolly)1e Member on that su'ectas s h
liamentary supporters to unfurl the standard of domes- manfully upheld•—(Hear, hear, hear.) Much as an event would reduce his own stock in trade' and udhcei;
tic change in this country.—(Hear, hear.) It would he respected the Noble Lord's character his prive him or a subject for constant deciam-ation'
enable them to fight the battle of the Constit tio rank, and his station, he was sorry for him' as a opinion, the measure before the House would degrade the
voter, and endanger the integrity of the empire; and he
plain and intelligible grounds ; it called uupounuPtlnien man, as a Member of Parliament, and as a
.Mini-
House to say whether they would consent to tamper stem of the Crown, that he had placed himself should, therefore, give it his decided opposition.
, that in rising for the first time
with the franchise that was conferred. by the in such a humiliating position. He said that with pain,
Reform Act, and to reopen, at the exiration of 10 Mr. HOWARD sail
to address the Howe, he hopO,l that Hon. Gentlemen
but he certainly did not think it possible for any
would extend to hina that indulgence of which ho stood
years, the old question of Parliamentary Reform. It human being to be subjected to a more degradin
also drew a line between the G
so math in need. It was not his intention to enter
ovenament of the situation.—(Loud cheers from the Opposition, and into matters of detail, which he would leave to Gentlemen
present day and the Government of Lord Grey, and fur- laughterf on the Ministerial benches.) He had great
Dished an opportunity of testing the sincerity who were bete; acquainted with the country for which it
reasepecbti. for character of the Noble hotel) but he
proposed the finality principle. It had beea said those who
was proposed to leghlate • but, as an gnelitihrhan, he
ige to say that.--(lronical cheeeick.) He was would briefly, but deeidedly, express his opinion in favour
Hoe. Member for Drogheda, that the franchisey was sworr u
considerably narrowed. He (Mr. Gaskell) believed whichy
ithath the Noble Lord had brought in a Bill of the measure:—( Hear.) Ile believed that the Bill
the truth to be that the nu:fiber of supporters of her was addingwt
his knowledge
eb of Ireland he must know would be acceptable to the country at large. During the
and not and that usraws rners to an expiring flame, last session, when the abuses of the present registtatiye
Majesty's Ministers had been narrowed
ver froth the Ireland
tegistrat'oo r
agitation Ireland
Winsssobeg.inning to recd. stytote-mi,
lisn Ireland had been exposedewoshon tbie frauds end
toparototrva%tewd httiegialrlt to wbbieliNit gave rise had
the number of the electors.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
beene
h expo°
Ho doubted whether a majority of that liouse would be was beginning to express its own thatopinionnstas
he believed, now that the Dill ate
tLord ;le
found to support the second reading of that t Bill.
t Would was injurious to the country, and the ordinary relations Member for North Lancashire had atequiredeblan
alt: ritni iSter)r
any man doubt what were the wishes anexpeie expectations of of society were beginning to resume their force—the popularity. But
the people of England upon this subject any Governmeut that ought to have resisted turbulence and understood, that the difficulti ei which it would throw in the
pest& to perpetuate the disc de la! i.he jeopta!arity w..h.:i.,celainietnoonpeop
way cf independent utters hid become a
I cll. 7,earever might be the
man doubted that let him look at the late elections, opposed. agitation were the men to renew, and h Pneehti It had
nesn'itje°l:itili rtesiPiteclttiltol ati e°
let him look at the election for Monmouthshire, Wal- would say if this Bill
0 lefti
4tiohte
sfranchise, undo ln ed
JPudtoa. ;' was notorious that in Ireland a great diffetence
call, Carlow, and Canterbury. Making every allow- and agitation which bad been so interestedly, design.
ante for the solitary victories which he': Majesty's
,Go- edly, and injuriously carried on in that eountry.gU
he wohli speakn
vernment had achieved at Richmond and St. Alban 8— i (Hear.) He spoke with pain, but with the bless- *---g of Cg ihnefoi etxistfedthon
rithblaetncitssonhimetetot,
pit,ilit
tieoWetratidlalosttybethdaitffii.t
(Ironical cheers from the Opposition benches)— lof God he would speak
.his own mind ;he would teL till'
truth, and though he might be in error, culties of uthyatudttesetione
there were sufficient reverses in other places to
show pretty distinctly that the tide of public what he thought.--{heir, hear, from Mr, i.reontiell ) thinly which Was the fruitful codeso colVeh it in that uneer-
pri•isent Abuses
opinion had set strongly against them, and against The. policy of the Irish Government since the last of Irish teittistralwe He heliettedethat thete measure intro-
The measures which they supported.—(Hcar, hear.) Session of Parliament had been of that wretchedly amt aby t
ad Government would obviate that incon-
The Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire biguous character that the newspapers) arwi eVery - veeleace and would, by
per- an ' .. ,defining the franchise, put
had been taunted during the debate, because he bad not son in that country, had been constantly inquirin cod to litigation. Ho thottght gait such ti 1, o mum-
g stance should have inderte4 lin Utt I" -
n. tnt emu opposite
chosen to grapple with the question of English •whether th •were the advocates of repeal or
re they not. to assent t the t il
tion, and co • Wined himself to the registration system The measure before the House answered the question. Oifferencheo tct: ad tea mg of the Bill, and that any
of Ireland ; but surely it might be asked with at least He believed that if any measure could secure the EON of the qualification
which might be felt as to the amount
,
non should b'e reser heti far ditettstion in
equal justice, of the Government, repeal perty, it was that which was then Committee. Such was th • t
, ent, why they had not vices of the
se phrsued on the Muni-
grappled with the question of an extended franchise
under the consideration . of the House, and which cipal Bills and Hs (Mr. He eekir
oward) was at a le-s to co •
sconceive
in this country as well as in Ireland:l—Meer gave the elective franchise without any qua,. why it had been departed from •
as the present instance.
The reason was obvious. The p4l - ' hear.) - _ _
_,
_,.
o._ As it appeared that the 5/.
e of England lification. —(Hear, hear, from Mr. 0 Cruel! ) He rating clause we tht • • principal
would have repudiated and disowned. e•cause of the opposition given to tho B.'
it, and Ireland saw that there was virtually no qualification and ill be the Hen.
was the only country in which the oli • • • q d Member for Gentlemen opposite, he dew glad t b
(c,Peorey of innovation he appealed to the Hon. and Learned
of ucciaring the reasons ton - ° tee;apitortonir
could be hoped to prosper.—
) , let *nitro:to ait Theyo
b ) They had Dubli to if were not so. He objected to
Dublin
sly it
heard charge, of injustice and tyrann
circumstances
y preferred the measure, because he was persuaded that It would of the country. Ibe •re was, 'enroll 0
against all those gentlemen who pres unlt.lys there no mat-
tuned to differperpetuate the Learned Gen- tmatian of claste •
empire of the Hon. and gd _ 3as in Engand, Thit Zoantry was &-
from gentlemen opposite on questions of Irish policy,
He had seen letters in the public newspapers addressed civil war or a repeal of the Union.—(Hear, hear, owners and
,ei the cultivators of the soil. Those classes were,
to a gentleman named Ray, in which Members of that hear.) He could not doubt but the Noble Lord f
un. erunad y,opposed to each ethet ild litany etseetial
House were spoken of as fools and miscreants, for points. The former class *as Tory inpolitics •
their th lrelandmust himself be
e Secretary for . and Pro-
opposition to the Bill of' the Noble Lord (Morpeth .• • t:stant in religion—the latter el
aware that by this measure he would give fresh pinions ass generally professed
He confessed that he viewed the use of that)
the Roman Catholic faith and
were Liberal ih polities.
language, to the Hon and Learned Member's flight. The
with which the Hon. and Learned Mena- * He would not now go back into the history of
fact was the Ministry had brought down theit lreland to
her for Dublin was so familiar, and the application of show the causes of this estrangement • was sufficient for
great despot on their backs, and while they denounced his argument that it existed, and he'
skew epithets, without the sli la f rof '
g test ee ing uneasiness the repeal in thought it essential
efr r,. words, they were furnishing the Hon. that they should have the opinion of the lower as well as
to et, though it convinced him that they and
were
.._„__:___ . .
1., arging their public duty in that House, and i plishing hi
Alkilli .ch •Learned Member with the best
means of aecorn- the higher classes.— ( Loud cheering.) The measure of
ha purpose. He (Colonel Conolly) had the Noble Lord opposite was calculated to throw the fran
~.
ottogoo, found an inconvenient obstacle in the way of I himself card the Honourable and Learned chile entirely into the hands of the higher classes. Ava .
7. 1„,}7.7, .. es of aggrandisement and re lwhich • G 1
pea to ent ealan d •
ett • tAtlsitill't Ws Gover deride the threats of Ministers ;it one diminution had already taken place of the electoral bodyst
to, t .
~
than tame were unable to offer :of his meetings.—(e
--1,,,L-11,seju - Ise than tame • Hear hear, "f Mr. O'Connell and the Noble Lord had himself admitted the - '
d, from
.)
.disincline_: '.*: r :'•-:*;.,, as he from resistance.—(Cheers.) And 1 The Hon. and Letwat of the landlords to grant leases. That showed that
.., erne
Gentleman knew what he
acknowledging the 'u tic of alluded to, and
:74(103 Putations
:-t 41a, . • r'. - - Upon the motive js e that Gentleman knew that Repeal was some alteration. of the franchise was necessary, if they
s or conduct of nothing but an wished Ireland to be fairly represented in the House....
opts strgagem to fin his pockets.. (Cheers.) Ho knew it bad been said that II class of Total

f,

anti dee, the facility of retaining that right when once es-
tablished ; whereas the measure of ifs Noble opponent
threw obstacles alike in the way of the fraudulent and lice-
-nest claimant, and left both at the mercy of vexatious op-
position,—( Hew, hear.) On this account elope he thought
the Bill eraiilei not merely to the preference, but to the
cordial support of every Membir who wished to see the re-
gistration of voters placid upon a fair and satisfaetery
ireie But he was ready to admit that the main principle
of tho Bi I was the eeari i is, or (if they pleased) the Dew
arrangement, of the eh ale franchise in liclaud. He did not
think that Hoe. Members did sight to complain of their
uniting the two questions, for it stood admitte 1 that the
bulk of the evils complaiued of in Ireland had arisen from
the misunderstandirg and doubt %tech raised as tr the
definition of the elective franchise, on which, notwithstands
ing all that he had sai 1, it certainly did not ap-
pear to him (Mr. Morgan John O'Connell) the Noble
author of the Ref.:r.n Act had thrown any great light,
for he had never yet beard him tel exactly what he
meant to have been the franchise by the Reform Bill.—
( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lod had not thought right to
do so, but in the words quoted the other night by the
Right lion. the Attorney-General for Irelaed, the
Noble Lord said—" But the great eiil, except the minor
one of names remaining on the roll after the qualification
had ceased, with this exception the great evil consisted
in the ambiguity of th, franchise, and whatever test you
take, whether the definition of Sir Michael O'Legelin, or
the definition of the solvent tenant test, in either case it
was liable to great ambiguity ; it was liable to all those
evils, so fully described to us, the putting men upon their
oaths as to matters of opinion, and opinion on which oppo-
site parties may vary." It was then, as admitted by the
Hon. Member for Wakefield who, upon such just pren-iises
had come to such an unjust conclusion, Frost important, if
they adopted the test of rating, that they should take such
-a test as would extend, instead of narrowing the franchise.
In the first place then, the plan proposed wool I under pre_
tier cope:alien, give a I.beral and ex;ended franchise, but
it was still more valuable, because it introduced a test on
which men of fair minds could not by possibility mistake.
A great deal had beez said about the low rate at which
the franchise was fixed. He begged to remini the Hon.
Gentlemen who had made this objection that if they looked to
the table, which gave the returns laid before the House,
they would find the test in the rating proposed by the Bill
would not exceed the number of those who at present
formed tee constituency of Ireland. He knew it was said
that if the premises were act valued at 54, what right had
the owner to be registered ? And the answer was, be-
cause the beneficial interest, and not the solvent-.enan*
test, had been adopted by the Judges/. He would not ar-
hell to the evidence of Mr. Leslie Foster iu 1829, but to
an authority which the Noble Lord the Member for North
Lancashire could not repudiate—be meant his coadjutor in
bringing in the Reform Bill, Mr. Solicitor-General
Crampton, who in the debete on the Irish Reform Bill,
in reply to the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin,
said—" I do not hesitate to say, that by the passing of this
Bill Ireland will have a constituency far b lend anything
of which Scotland can boast, and certainly not much
!whir d that of England."—(Hear, hear, hear..) How
the Noble Lord could, after that declaration of the
intention ef the Reform Bill, say that the present consti-
tuency of Ireland was extensiee enough, he (Mr. Morgan
din O'Connell) could not understand. But it WEIS not
for him to understand the reasons of the Noble Lord. It
was sufficient for him to see how completely the Noble
Lord had departed from the principles he aim held, and to
remind Hon. Members there were a number of restrictions
upon the franchise of Ireland, with regard to occupation.
But still, with r egard to the number of voters, the Noble
Lord brought forward an argument which he said he
thought would utterly overthrow all that had been ad-
vanced as to the small number of the Irish constituency.
" Here," said the Noble Lord, " is a return which shows
that the consti-ueney bas increased in number since the
year 1835. He could account for the Noble
Lord's ignorance oa th's question ; but why
ho consulted nobody on the subject, he (Mr.
Morgan John O'Connell) could not conceive. These
returns quoted by the Noble Lard said that in Cork there
were 5,73 e voter., in Dublin 4.167, and in Mayo 2,185,
and yet the Noble Lord had heard the Noble Lord the
Secretary for Ireland state that at the late election for
Mayo one reason why there was no contest was that the
constituency did not much exceed 700. Now any one who
knew the state of Ireland knew that the returns quoted by
the Noble Lord contained the names in the registry of
1832, and that a great number of those OR the old registry
were included is the new registration. Now from these
returns must be deducted the number of those registered at
the first registration after the Reform Bill, and consequently
although Antrim was registered at 5,263 the number must
be diminished 3,827 ; Armagh 5,654, must be diminished
3,842 ; Cork 5,738, must be diminished 3,835, leeving not
2,000 voters in a county containing 700,000 inhabitants;
and Mayo 2,185, must be diminishel 1,350 reg s-
tored in 1832, and whose title had since expired.
It was sure to excite ill-feeling in Ireland ashen they saw
such ignorance of the stet, of the country exhibited by
those who came forward to lead the legislation of that
country, but they would willingly forgive the )geteratiee f
they saw a disposition for acquiring knowledge, or of using
it generously towards them. But the Noble Lord made
use of another argument, at which he (Mr. M. J. O'Con-
nell) confessed he was astonished. He knew not whether
the usual caution of the Noble Lord had fled when he
made use of it, but the Noble Lord had said in his speech
the other night, " I will not press upon the House the
argument how inapossi..le et is to sanction the application of
this principle to Ireland alone, bee tun the argument aid
red-lily suggest itself to the mind of every one who hears
me, how impossible it is to withhold the same extension of
the elective franchise to the other parts of
the United Kingdom." Now, the Noble Lord
should remember that this was a two-haode 1 argument,
and that if it was good For extending Irish privileges to
England, it was equally good for extending English and
Scotch privileges to Ireland.—( Hew., hear.) Di I they
remember the application when lush franchisee were under
discussion ? He would not go back to the period of
the Irish Reform Bill, but ou the late question of the
Municipal Reform Bill, rights which were conceded to
England and Se-Vend ware resisted when sought to be
conferred on Ireland, and were conferred at last in a
manner even more ungracious than they had been resisted,
and with so many obstacles to their application, that, al-
though the Act passed last yea-, it was not until the next
that it would be in operati in in Ireland. —( Heir, hear.)
Was this, he askel, the way in which the Noble Lord,
the Member for North Lancashire, and the Hoe. Gentle-
men opposite, thought equal rights were to be extended to
Ireland ? Was this their notion of the union between the
two countries, which they regarded as so advantageous, that
the Noble Lord declared he would resist any alteration
even to the death. He did not know whether the Noble
Lord had exactly spoken of Ireland as the writer of a
pamphlet, who called himself a Conservative Member of
the House of Commons, had spoken of it, and who, by the
way, was a great admirer of the Noble Lord, and who
wrote that " England is the Roy al mistress, and Ireland
is her tributary," a phrase certainly not implying equality
or even a moderate degree of inferiority, but character-
istic of the most reckless spirit of intolerant domination.
But whether the Noble Lord would use these terms or

would be created under the present Bill who would be cc-
tirely dependent upon their landlords—a pauper consti-
tuency living from hand to mouth—(Hear, hear, from the
Opposition.) The lien. Gentlemen opposite else oed,
but he thought that objection would have come with a
better grace from his side the House, for he did not think
that lion. Gentlemen opposite would look upon the de-
pendence of voters as a very great objection—( Cheers
from the Ministerial benches.) If the votes were avail.
able for no other purposes, they would, at least, save the
landlords what he must consider the pain of cap: Ilirg
vet:Lrs from their homes on account of a difference
of opinion.—(Continued cheers.) He was told that
such a system of voting was undreamed of in
Scotland, and unheard of in England. He woul .1 not
now stop to inquire whether the English 40.. free hold
franchise would not give a greater constituency to Eng-
land than the proposed measure would to Ireland. Ile
knew that such was the opilien of the Noble Lori the
Secretary for Ireland. But he thought it had nothing to
do with the question. They saw the Irish constituency
constantly dimini.hing, and a measure was proposed to
throw increased difficulties in the way of the voter. Us-
der such circumstances, wag it a wise course to consider
what would be the effect of such a system in England? It
would be lire dashing from the lips of the fainting man
the cup that was to bring him nourishment, becaese it
might he too stimulating for his neighbour.—(Cheers. )
But some Members on the other side had said tha t
they should not wish to see the constituency greatly dimi-
nished, and that if Lord Stanley's Bill should have that
result, they would Le willing afterwards to endeavour to
find some remedy. But would it not then be tee
when the Tory Members of the Nosh would be added
to the Tory Members returned by the landl aids from the
South of Ireland ? Ile did not teinis such a course a
wise one.—(Cheers.) It woull be a dangerous state of
things if the real represe itatives of Ireland w' re no
longer to possess a seat in that House, but acre
to be compelled to carry on their deliberatiens elsewhere,
where the attention of tne people would be fixed en them
instead of on that House. It was irnpesdn!e: to say what
would be the event of such preceedings, but whatever it
might be, it could not hut be detrimemal to the be!..t inte-
rests of the Irish people. Belicving that the Bdl of the
Noble Secretary for Ireland would establish tie franchise
upon a ea iefectory basis, he would give it his he irty sup-
port.—( Cheers. )
Mr. LASCEL L ES admitted that it was necessary to
define the franchise. He was disposed to establish it on a
larger basis. lie admitted that the Poor-law rating might
preperly be applied as a test of the right of voting
(Cheers from the Ministerial Benches.) And yet, ad-
mitting what some might be disposed to consider as the
principle of the Government measure, he felt bound to op-
pose its second reading. There was nothing more diffi-
cult than to distinguish between what censrituted the rin-
ciple of a Bill and its details. It was v, ry commonly the
ease that the princip!c of a Bill was involved in its de ails,
but he was disposed to leek at the amount of the
franchise as involved in the princip!e of the B 11. —( Hear,
hear.) Was there he would ask, no danger in throwi .g
out to the people of Ireland a eil. franchise which came be-
fore the House recommended by no details? and he could
not but look at the Bill as containing eteential princip'e3
that might le applied to this country. lie thought the
strict application of the solvent tenant test was rather too
:tries a restriction of the franchise, fur he thought a good
qual•ficition might he founded upon the rate.—(Loci
cheers.) He was sorry Bret they were again embarked in
these party contentions, for he was in hopes at the conclu-
sion of the last Session that Ireland would have been al-
lowed a little more rest. He was fully aware that his
Noble Friend would be charged with this, but he felt
convinced that he did nut deserve it, his object being to
put registration upon a proper footing. That, however,
did not sanction the Government in con ing down to that
Hou e and proposing the present Bill. He should there-
fore give his opposition to the sec and reading of the Bill.
Mr. GISBORNE the' rose to address the House.
Great evils had grown up iu Ireland from its present
system of registration, and those evils acre calculated to
impress every man with horror and disgust. To those
evils the Bill of the Noble Viscount proposed a remedy,
and he had not heard it sail by any one thet that remedy
which the Noble Lord had applied woul I not be etTectuel.
The Noble Lord admitted that the remedies were effee-
tuel, but he complained that the same remedies were op..
posed when he recommended them to the House. With
respect to the evils which existed, and the efficiency of
the remedy proposed, there was no difference of °pi-
I ion. There was in Ireland great uncertsi .ty respecting
the franchise. Several gentlemen on the other aide hail
said that there could be no legal doubt ; but even though
there were no legal doubt, no one would deny that there
were practical difficulties ; that in our country a man was
registered because he had a beneficial interest, and in
another refused for the same qualification. They might
say whet they pleased about the Irish Judges, but that did
not at all remedy the evil.—( Hear, hear.) It was a
marked distinction between the two Bills, that one of them
proposed a remedy for this evil and the other did not. It
had been said last sea-, and was still slid, that the Judges
ought to agree. What progress had been made towards
such an agreement? Al: that he heart was that two
more Judges had jninel the diseentients. They had no
means of compelling, and none of producing
an agreement ; and yet it war proposed to bring
in a Bi 1 to remedy the abuses of registration, and
leave wholly untouched the evils arising from the rancor..
tainty of the francbi e. That alone was sufficient to show
that the one Bill was decidedly superior to the ether. The
Hon. Member for Exeter said that he could very well un-
derstand why this Bill should be acceptable to °Le section
of the supporters of her Majesty's Government; and
another Hon. Member had tauntel the Radical Members
for giving no opinion upon the subject. But although they
had not indulged in loquacity in that debate, ha could as.
sure the House they thought that impartial legislation
could only be secured by impartial representative, and were
therefore fully prepared to support this Bill. If lion.
Gentlemen tvould on that occasion allow him to act as the
organ of the English Radicals, he had no hesitation in
making that avowal on behalf of that great body.—( Hear,
hear.) The principle adopted in this Bill with respect to
the franchise was that of an independent test-ti test made
for other purposes, and with respect to which therefore
there could be no dispute. On this point he must be per-
mitted to say that the Noble Lord, the Member for North
Lancashire, had hardly done himself justice ; for
he believed that if that Noble Lord had introduced
the Poor-law valuation as a test, the Noble Viscount, the
proposer
of the present Bill, would have been far more
disposed to joie him. He (Mr. Gisborne) had no very
high opinion of what was called the "beneficial interest."
He thought it led to a great deal of perjury and confusion.
The solvent tenant test, whatever it might be as a fran-
chise, was certainly a good test; if applied to a valuation
made for other purposes, it was as good a test as could
be found for the registration. But a solvent tenant test
of Id was an exceedingly bad franchise for Ireland. It
the constituency was found to be on the decline, it Wail
said that they might come to the Legislature for the
purpose of having it enlarged. —( Hear.) He felt a
deep obligation to the Noble Member for North
Lancashire for the course be had taken. They were not
sorry for it—on the contrary, they were rejoiced, because
now they Could go before their constituencies and mint
out the advantages of a Liberal Government over that of
a Tory one. The violence of the Tory party was the sal-
vation of the Liberal one. The la ter had fallen into
apathy, bet this would rouse them. He would not detain
the House further, but he would give the Bill his cordial
support.
CHOLMONDELE? stolid almost in the same
posidon as the lion. Member who spoke last but one, It
was the first time he had taken any part in a public de-
bate, and he trusted to meet with the same kind indulgence.
—( Hear, hear,) He had attended closely to all the argu-
ments put forward in that long deb.te, :Ad he was stars
prised to find that the most important point, viz., the (ran.
chive, wits either thrown overboard entirely, or touched as
lightly upon as if' the t*o questions df registration end it
farmed the substance of two distinct Bills. HO gave the
Bill his decided opposition, on the ground that, under the
guise of a Registration Bill, they found tacked to it a
clause called by a lquble Lord a eollateral means for some
addition to the franchise. That was a mild phrase to use
wheft speaking of a clause thSt would double the
franchise.—( car, hear,) the Noble Mettler fur North
Lancashire had well denominated the Bill as a near fie.
form Bill for Ireland. It was a Bill that was more
likely to be like the dragen's teeth—being sown there, it
would be more likely to apflag tip a hafvest of woe such
as even that Country bid nevi(' semi thin be, is It was Saki
it would be, a blegsiirg td I eitind,—( ar, hear; hear. )
They had heard of the ei!elit Qt t 9; newer of then Cstho,
. .
iie priesthood in Ireland. He wolli say very little c
them, farther than that be was sorry to see re:sons of their
sacred eliaract4E inted),,lfing hi politic,' matters, He re-
grett3i also to find that there existed a great syfitem of
intimidation; and the Suter knew nut bow to act';, being
placed te'we.:n tit§ eppoileg patee-: if he ao.ted. for.
the itilen4iiiee cafi iddte; lie it'ai ceded with if midnight
no'ree that his heu:e would be burned over big head. He
feared the Bill would create a class of voters who would
not hive the pdvief of Moral influenez to resist such lett-
midation. U.e great argumeet PM been tiniest was
the disproportion existing between populaioa and the
constituencies: lf that were good for anything, it was
but ltlf3lc sib a tined that pfefr4crty wtls coneparatively
valueless in Ireland; and
.it showed clearly the 'he:onions
efforts of poli ical agita•ien; But teat was no reason for
lowering the franchise—it was,rether a ground for rising
tbc standard df the toter: It firil their saiilld that they
were on the fella of wars ilntlthipt )14y con net rely
upon the assistance or support or the .rshi p&aplee if their
esow be
demands were not conceded:—( Hear, hehear.)i.
wishe4 that tdeJ stn ariumint wpuld have no weight with
that house, atm gig Lii4
tit all, e+ents IS:or:aid resist inti-
midation: The question was:an importune erre; kid preg-
nant with good or evil, and it behoved the House to decide
upon it
would
it c
aito force what
they refused t? rseson: b
•,
0 ei, a 'uticids kirsow whether,
s
'
yno atn aditdaiesupTiitobromin te
ofly andgranting
tbat at !else the
Majesty's Government to carry our the Ferree principle with
regard to En4land and Scotland: Ilk object, would be
if the theasure were ea-ric'..; it was ititetitiott ttf bar
i a eimviiicing the
gained House of iehirea dg
rseu etc eed c d ,
importancein
e
n
to opposl the feeditre of the Hear.)
ghoul I therefore &fly say far t atrnYtoUtfa(ittYhiite wsausbjheicsti n atenndt iuh
length to which the
Mr. M: J. O'CONdNetE,atLe
any greet length into the
WI dal to go et
said, that after the great
details of the measure, tfidiio hard been trca'ed of
['had extended, be should not
t
feel it
cedel him: fie thought these bad better
would e•
the Committee, to *hleh he hoped the Bill
Igris,
but he would briefly take that opportunity, as aen
it
hisll
at great length by some Hor. Gentle-maco
bwebroesehrtavdedprfee-r
representative, to express the reasons
view
be g
the measure of the Noble Lord the
Member
himself as
Lancashire, but, however,
be would
confineof consideration.
much as possible to the subject matter support. He could not altogether vimewyibtedristfieanrvetNforertmh
to comprise two questions —registration Hear hear, hear.)
pert, and franchise on the other.—(
and here ho
In the first instance it bad grant merit,
The Bill appeared to hint divisible intotwooponinthtse, aonnde
could not avoid contrasting
it with the measure of the
Noble Lord (Lord Stanley) for thehis
right,
afforded
to every Toter of proving his title,
and obtaining
facility .

t not, he appeared to act much on the spirit of such language.
P would ask Hou. Members what had the general cry
fur the Repeal of the Union sprung from ?—(Hear.)
From discontent, with misgovernment, and the avempts
of those who wished to take away the rights provided by
the people of Ireland ?—( Hear. ) Did they think that
by resisting the measure now before the House they would
lessen the discontent and put down the cry ?—(Hear.)
They eould nut do so.,but they would exasperate the dis-
content, and make it show its,lf in more menacing shapes.
He would be the last man in that House to make use of,
threat or menace, either to that House or to Great Britain,
but if the Hon. Member for Pembroke were in the House
he would tell him that they who were loudest to declare
that they would not yield to menace were often the first
to he intimidated, and those who were the most ready to
boast of their courage were often the most tardy in ex-
erting 4s-40:leers.) Is was absurd to suppose that
Iri,hmen would in these times rebel against their Sove-
reign, but if dangar were to be apprehended from abroad,
he asked was there anything metre desirable
than that the whole people should be waited,
and that no part of the empire should be in a state of elle.
nseien and discontent ?--( Cheers.) Every concession
to Ireland had been made when Great Britain was
labouring under elreurosteacts of difficulty and danger;
and concessions so made are always reeteived with a bad
grace.—( Hear, hear.) At present the ways of England
were Elrefy where victorious, and it was therefore g happy
time le make Concessions to the people of Ireland,—
I (Che'ers:) By conceding now, they would fir the first
time he cox noels to Irehend its the time of their success;
and they would excite in the b'r'easts of the Irish people
that gratitude which their past cotidect had not been cal-
culated to instil.—( Cheers.) Although be rejoieed for
cthe success of his countrymen in arms, and fir the
triumphs of Brlelib diplomacy, yet Le most rejoiced in
theta, beeriest they gave this opportunity of conciliatiag
the afLetion, and wincing the gratitude of the Irish
people.—( Hear, hear.) With that leAing, and in the
hope of its being realised, he would gate for the second
reading of the Bill.
Mr. Es TENNENT said that as many Hen. Members
on the other side, wbo were opposed to the 51. fren-
i chile, still of opinion that the rest of the Bill
might he earned into effect without that clause, he
wished to assure thorn that if that part were omit-
ted, the rest would fall to the ground. The
I effect of the 51. clause would be to give the guardians
of the poor the means of determining who should have a
vote and who not—(Hear, hear)—and in one parish the
clerk to the gnardems had actually made out, in antici
pation of this mu becoming law, a list of those who would
be qualified to vote under the present rating, distinguishing
the Liberals from the Tories in seearate columns.—( Hear,
hear.) 'Undo the clause two shillings and a penny eer
year would purehase the franchise, and five hundred voters
would be had for an annual capenditero of 501.—( Hear.)
The Hon. Member then read some statistical returns to
shun that the Reform Bill had not failed in the town which
he repre-ented (Belfast). Now, whatiwould be the ettett
of the Si rating in Belfast. According to th s Poor-law
returns there were 6,365 houses rated abuse 51. in Belfast ;
from that number they were to deduct the amount of the
present constituency, 2,105 ; they would find that tl e effect
of the Government measure would be to add 4,260 elec-
tors to the present constituency. —( Hear, hear.) Now it
had been admitted by th- Noble Lord that property, and
net numbers, ought to be the Lasis of representation—
that those alone ought to possess the franchise who 'chew
the value of property, and yet by this measure the men et*
property in Belfast would be ostvoted by two to one by the
men of no property. The absurdity, the inconsistency, and
the danger of the Government, measure was such, that he
could not help thinking that some of the Geatlemenon
the other side, who were usually in the habit of supporting
her Majesty's Government would refuse to lend them their
aid on the present occasion.—( Cheers.)
Mr. WILLIAM ROCHE, as an Irish Member, thought
he should be scarcely justified in giving a silent vote on a
subject, and at a crisis, affecting so deeply the liberty and
the tranquillity of the county which had sent him there
Although the Member ,vho hardjust Sat. down rind spoke,
disparagingly of the rating test ut the franchise, he thuuglrt
it the moat precious part of the Bill.—(Cheers.) Ho