The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-13 00:00:00

LIGHT DUES.

Mr. PIIILLIP HOWARD presented a petion from
the inhabitants of Carlisle against the light dues, and
praying the House to carry into effect the recommenda-
tion of Committee, of which the Hon. Member for
Montrose was chairman, appointed by that House to
consider the subject.
POOR REMOVAL BILL,

Mr. BA NKES presented a petition from the inhabitants
f Penlyn, in the county of Cornwall, prayirg the House
to pass some measure wholly to repeal, or materially to
alter or amend the Poor Removal Act, passed in the last
session of Parliament,

Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN wished to ask the Right Hon.
llemJer, the Secretary for Ireland, whether
deathserhe whichhadre-
ceived any official account of the number of
bed occurred in Bantry. lie (Mr. S. O'Brien) had been
informed that coroners' inquests had been held upon the
bodies of 40 persons, who, ithin a very short pet iod, had
fallen victims to famine.
Mr. LABOUCIIERE regre tied that the destitution
urea most severe in some districts, but every means at
the disposal of the Government was adopted to relieve it.
Mr. SMITII O'BRIEN asked if there was no measure
ofl , i
mMtsrhe.
el LnAl
aI Brdi OshU
writtenlll u I- let,:
cel tor
of Immediate relief fur such a case as this?
nEnmleiandt. nlov
it,
tlibedut tthoe aitttentipz
certung and he had no. doubt
but measures would be taken to afford relief.
CAMBRIDGE BURGESSES.
aiPneitnitgionthaftrottnhevsevwe
Mr. WATSON presenteedoinapi
or
;el
burgesses of Cambridge,
not placed on the list of voters for that borough, though

they were entitled to the franchise, and had taken the
necessary steps to obtain it.
DESTITUTE PERSONS (IRELANT), LILL.
On the motion of Mr. LABOUCHERE, that the
order of the day for the third reading of this Bill be
read,
NEWSPAPERS—PUBLICATION OF DIS-
PATCHES.

Mr. ROEBUCK, seeing the Noble Secretary for
Foreign Affairs in his place, wished to put a ques-
tion. In the Morning Chronicle of that morning,
a dispatch, dated the 11th instant, signed Palmer-
ston, and :directed to the Marquis of Normanby,
was published. It was not the matter of the dispatch
with which he wished to find fault, but to the circum-
stance appearing in a newspaper before it could have
reached Lord Normanby, to whom it was addressed, or
the Court to whom the communication was to be made.
Now he wished to know whether the appear-
ance of such a document in a public journal
was not in contravention of the rules which regulated
diplomatic correspondence, and contrary to the courtesy
which should be observed with regard to such commu-
nication. He was exceedingly grieved to make
this statement, as he believed that the conduct and
the good faith of the political agents of the
Noble Lord and of the Noble Lord himself with
respect to the recent relations with France,
had been completely ►indicated. Still it was abso-
lutely necessary that the good faith, candour, and
straightforward conduct of the Government should
be maintained beyond all suspicion.—(Hear, hear.)
The question he wished to put to the Noble Lord was
this, and he was sure he would pardon him for doing so
—had he any cognisance of any document of the kind?
Lord PALMERSTON said the fact was, that yester-
day evening he laid on the table the continuation of the
correspondence which he had previously laid before the
House. That continuation contained the last dispatch
of M. Guizot to Count Oliviera, which had been officially
communicated to her Majesty's,Government. It also con-
tained a dispatch from him (Lord Palmerston) to Lord
Normanby, that there was no intention on the part of the
Government to reply to that last dispatch. He
certainly must return his thanks to the Hon.
Member for the handsome manner in which
he bad spoken of the conduct of her Majesty's Govern-
ment, in connexion with these dispatches. These
papers also contained a dispatch from Lord Nor-
manby, complaining of the inferences that mght
be drawn from certain statements which had
been made in the French Chambers ; also his
(Lord Palmerston's) answer to Lord Normanby, stating
that the confidence of the Government in him had not
been shaken by anything that had passed.—(Hear,
hear.) These papers, as ho had said, were presented
yesterday, and the lion. and Learned Gentleman must
be aware that a short time must elapse before they
could be circulated to all the Mewbers of the House.—
(Hear, hear.) He was sorry, that by some accident,
the papers had not been generally delivered, but he
begged to tender the Hon. and Learned Gentleman his
(Lord Palmerston's) copy. (The paper was handed
by/ him to the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath,
amidst considerable laughter.) It might, he thought,
be instructive to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman.
The Bill was then read a third time and passed.
FEVER IN IRELAND.

Mr. P. FRENCH wished to call the attention of the
lion. Gentleman the Secretary for Ireland (Mr. La-
bouchere) to the recent extraordinary increase of fever
in
Ireland.
He had received several letters thi3 day
stating that fever was greatly on the increase. He
wished to suggest that the valuable medical institutions
of Ireland should be made available for the purposes
of the ailing during the prevalence of the present
calamity. Ho also wished to know what steps the Go-
vernment proposed to take in older to alleviate the suf-
ferings of those persons?
Mr. LAI3OUJEIERE believed that the statement of
the honourable Gentleman was correct. He stated
last session that, if the Government found it
reo:2.:•siry, the Board of Health in Dublin
would be renewed. The Lord-Lieutenant, owing to
cornmußications %hich had been made to him, had made
that renewal, and the board had been in operation during
the last three weeks. The attention of the Government
was fully directed to the question.
RAILWAYS (IRELAND) BILL.

Lord G. LENTINCR moved the second reading of
this Bill.
Lard NEWRY presented a petition from Newry in
favour of it.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
before he directed his attention to the important mea-
sure belie the House, he wished to offer a few
observations on whet had already taken plae( .
There were one or two symptoris of party feeling in the obser-
vations which fell from one or two gentlemen on the other side
of the House. He was perfectly ready to believe that his
Noble F, lend was willing to abstain from all partp expressions,
and he could assure the Noble Lord that such was the feeling
of her Majesty's Government. If the measure were carried,
they were not prepared to undertake the responsibility
of carrying it out. But it was of such importance
and magnitude, that they were not prepared to adopt it. A
plan which was to give no less a sum than sixteen millions—
Lord G. BEN'IINCK—Not more?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—Not more.
Those sixteen millions of money were not of such a light de-
scription, aswould warrant the adoption, whatever the Govern-
ment might be inclined to do in minor matters, and accord-
ingly his Noble Friend at once frankly stated that he could not
undertake it, and that it should meet with his opposition.
Ile confessed that he had great satisfaction in seeing the
measure in the shape of a Bill, because, however lucid and
clear the statement of the Noble Lord opposite might be,
nevertheless it was surer, and more satisfactory to judge of a
measure reduced into a shape, than merely a statement in that
House ; and though, he confessed, that standing in the situ-
ation which he did, he was a little appalled at the
trst prospect of a loan of 10 millions, that feeling
was in no degree removed, but to a considerable
degree increased, when he saw the provisions of the Bill,
provisions calculated to favour in many respects railways rather
than distressed persons in Ireland, He had no doubt that the
Noble Lord had introduced the measure to relieve distress in
Ireland, but he confessed that when he saw on the back of the
Bill the name ola gentleman, the Lord Mayor of York, who
Ives so deeply interested in railways, and the name of another
gentleman, the Hon. Member for Westmoreland, who was so
largely concerned in furnishing the materials of which these
railways were constructed (Cheers) —he should have
been surprised it the interest of the railway proprietors
and shareholders had not been adequately considered. He did
not mean to say that these were reasons why the measure
should not be fairly considered and discussed, but he did think
that it justified him in looking with a more critical eye at the
provisions of the Bill than he should be disposed to do with a
measure introduced simply for the relief of the people of Ire-
land. He would concede to the Noble Lord that an
extension of railways in Ireland would be beneficial to
that country. He would concede, moreover, that
to a certain degree, but by no means to the extent
supposed by the Noble Lord, labour in Ireland would be
improved under the provisions of the Bill, and that a certain
number of destitute labourers would be provided for. He
conceded all these points to the Noble Lord, and having con-
ceded them, he thought that the Bill had also a tendency to
establish certain other points which ought to be
instantly explained to the satisfaction of the House.
He had heard nothing advanced to cause him to admit the
statement that the State should become a great money-lender,
or to convince him that the security of railways in Ireland
would be an advantageous security. He had heard nothing to
convince him of the benefits that the distressed persons
of Ireland would receive from the preterit Bill, that
he should consent to the advance of such a large sum of money,
proposed to be advanced as a loan. In the present state of
the finances of the country, and the distress which so gene-
rally prevailed, he had heard nothing to justify him in adding
so largely to the burdens of the people of this coun-
try. (Cries of " Hear, hear.") Fer the sake of
securing efficieet relief for the distress of Ireland, he could
not ask the people of this country—themselves suffering under
considerable difficulties and:privations—to consent to advance this
large sum of money. Of this he was assured also, that the
money would not be effective for the purpose. With regard
to the first point to which he had referred, he was not of opi-
nion that the State should become a joint money-lender, ex-
cept it was under most extraordinary circumstances, and with
the assurance that the benefits would be commensurate to the
advance. Now, with regard to measures of improvement, though
some Gentlemen in that House had talked about the new
and fantastical " doctrine of political economy, he was quite
persuaded that if the security was good, there would be no
difficulty in getting advances from private individuals for the
construction of these works. He doubted if, in the
happy times which certain Hon. Members had referred
to the times of feudality, there was any great disposition to
advance sums of money for the public food, in order to serve
the interests of the yeomen and the tenants on the landowners
estates. It had also been complained that the rate of interest
was too high, but this he submitted was the only check which
trhecieuGiroevde..rnmliewnatshoandlytbheactautshee
tmhoeneseyewuroiutyldwnasot
nboetreecikuleaslstloy
tcahnithatpedl er raaewtsq.
au
far
soirtedai
made
snbt ye
srplecarsoisttvt private
edacraw capitalists,
highera ltei
hsottenhs ,caeentruhnetdoi
ordinary
aa
g(t
eHe eAtahreat
t),
He believed that the greatest departure made from prin.-
that measure was in existence, because the proprietors
in that country had availed themselves of it, to ex-
tend employment to the labouring classes around them
wt elessr
afpoterrtsaui necessary_to fix
But the measure itself was a measure of exception, and he.
(the Chancellor of the Exchequer) did not know that it could
be defended. The Noble Lord had stated that these railways
afford the most unexceptionable security. He was exceedingly
sorry to say anything which might depreciate the value of these
undertakings in the market, or to express any decided opinion as
to the value of the securities which they might offer. But
when he referred to the past transactions in Ireland, when he
referred to the advances made to public works in Ireland, he
was not singular in his doubts of the securities they had to offer.
He remembered that canals were at one time in much the same
situation that railways were now, yet he found, on referring to
the Acts, that not one of these had paid the advances made
from the public treasury. Now he scarcely need to refer
to any of these old canals, but he might instance the Loggan
Navigation, the money advanced
.by Government in the case
of this canal had not yet been paid. Soon after he had
been honoured with the seals of office, which he now
held, a deputation from the Ulster Canal had waited
upon him, they represented that unless the whole of the
debt, due to Government, were remitted, it would be
impossible for them to go en.—(Hear, hear.) The whole
estimate for that canal was 160,0001., 130,0001. of which had
been advanced by the public. Yet, out of that 130,0e0/., not
one payment of either principal or interest had been made.
There was the Grand Canal, which was begun under the most
favourable circumstances; it was not three years yet since the
Act was passed, and an amount, in several Bums of
40,0001., :38,004., and another sum, amounting in all
to 98,00./ , was advanced by the public, yet this under-
taking was so unable to pay either principal or interest,
that it was agreed that on the receipt of 10,00(11.,
site amount of 98,0001. should be forgiven by the public.
Before the existence of railways, when the promoters of these
schemes were unable to obtain money from individuals, they
applied to Government, and the result was that both
principal and interest were altogether sacrificed. Other
advances had been made, not to the poor and inepover•
ished districts and parts of Ireland, but to some of the largest
towns and richest cities in that country. Had they been re-
paid? No such thing. There was-now due from the city of
Dublin the sum of 2.15 000/. advanced to them and interest upon
it, that was now considered quite irrecoverable. Advances had
been made for the wide streets of Cork, 13,0001. principal,
with 10,000 interest, but no repayments had been made. The
sum of 55,000/. had been advanced to the city of Limerick,