The Sun.
London, England, 1847-07-16 00:00:00

despair of ultimately effecting a very .
reform. He gave the Government credit for
reform their system of church discipline. but
wishingsalutaryo rt
itl:
f
reasons he had mentioned he hoped they would postpone the measure, in order next year to lazing forward a mere
comprehensive and a better one.
Mr. GOULBURN said that the same argumentsni
t
would constantly be urged for postponing the Bill, a
that he should therefore give it his support at the
present time.—(Hear, hear.) It had been stated
in the course of this debate, that h
Precluded from creating the Bishop of Manchesterteywere
by
the first Ecclesiastical Commission, but the very names
attached to the report showed that it was not intended
that it should contemplate the binding up of this ex ten-
skin for ever. Surely if the Commission contemplated
the extension of the inferior clergy, it was also their
duty to provide a sufficiency of ecclesiastical superin-
tendence. The question was now, whether there should
be a new Bishop of Manchester or not ? He did not
consider that a Bishop of the Church of England was to
be r mere ornamental appendage to that Church.— (A,
laugh from the Hon Member for Montrose.) Did the
lion. Member for Montrose, who professed himself a
member of the Church of England, think that the Church
()fight to do without bishops ? He knew the fervent at-
tachment of the Right lion. Baronet behind him (Sir
J. Graham) to the Church of which he was a member,
but he thought that that Right Hon. Gentleman had not
stated correctly what were the duties of the bishops. He
considered that their duties were far more extended than
those ascribed to them by the Right Hon. Gentleman.
Ile might feel thus having lived under two ecclesiastical
anperintendencies, which added to the duties instanced
by the /Right Hon. Gentleman, others of a far nearer and
still higher character.—(Hear, hear.) He would not
only vote for the creation of the new bishopric of Man-
chester, but also for that part of the preamble
which recognised the necessity for a further creation of three more bishops—(" Hear, hear," from the Radical
benches)--and in taking that course he knew that he
should merit the thanks of the Churchmen of this
country.
Mr. B. ESCOTT said that this was perhaps one of
the most important Bills that had been introduced into
the House in the whole of this session, and it
was therefore necessary that they should give the
greater deliberation to it. He had listened to
the speech of tke Honourable Member for the Uni-
versity of Cambridge with great attention, but he did
not hear him allege a reason why he had supported the
union of the sees of Bangor and St. Asaph, when in
office in one year, and in the following year, when out
13i °Moe, advocate the creation of five new bishoprics.
thThrowing the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman,
en, out of the question, as it well deserved, let them see
how the question really stood. The objects of the Ec-
clesiastical. Commissioners were to benefit the poorer
Clergy, and. the opinion of the working clergy, if taken
thought so, where were their petitions P Where were
the petitions of the laity ? No one had petitioned for
this augmentation to the Bench of Bishops, but the Go-
cefrnment had seen fit to do this unasked, and the House
that the
were asked to sanction it. But he believed
and
itienebeopposition now given would defeat the measure,
beved also that her Majesty's Ministers would
be most grateful that they had done so. He did not
think that the attempt to aggrandise that portion of the
Church which was the most open to objection, would in
any degree tend to make the Church itself popular with
the country,Mr' C. IYNN supported the Bill. He thought the
azquestion of a seat in Parliament for the additional bishop
Irty secondary consideration, and he thought that this
,11:goo might well be considered on a future occasion.
titioner n:
Gentleman opposite asked where were the pe-
'R ,se sin favour of this Bill.—(hear, hear, from Mr.
°tt.) Now, when a member of the Ecclesiastical
fain
araituhiisssion in 1844, he had taken some pains to ascer-
, and he had found that the great majority of
the clergy and laity were opposed to the union of the
seessirefuS.t
R. A. saph and Bangor.
INGLIS supported the Bill, and felt greatly
I!La.. toansished that Sir James Graham should oppose it, as
,117 _ nearly identical with the measure which he him-
awna ft brought forward about seven years ago. For his
reserved
erp4
ticr)eheiordeially
but he
aPproved of the measure, limiting the
rma himself the right of moving that the clause
new Bishopsptoe%gative of the Crown to summon the
in Committee, e 11°48e of Lords should be expunged
Mr, S. WORTL increase of the temEY w,
would have justified a as of opinion that the great
_porai peerage since the Reformationbish
i n ch. eea s e
oi
lin l tdh
have
numberave
in the House of Lords.il
proposed thepa't-
tet;.: words in the preamble iviwn uasi led e for the
ation of the additional bishops haitqd been!) lefgt out, but
Si.n
rathese words happened to be inserted, he did not wish
l ove that they should be expunged. He thought it
mast. unconstitutional that such ancient bishoprics as
prCarlisle or Norwich should be deprived of their ancient
ivileges, in order that these new bishoprics, as provided
thll,)' . the Bill, should have the privilege of taking
eir seats in Parliament by rotation, Tin
!e_enQurahle and Learned Gentleman then quote,'
calline
'hie n in support of this view, and concluded b)
ar, ,p upon the House support the Bill, notwith
~;utlutng the objectionable spoilnts to which he had ad
.erred, and which he hoped would be amended in Com
kitt.
Mr. B. OSBORNE thought that the question for con '
aid Mr.
was,
how they should best dispose of the sur
plus funds of the Ecclesiastical Commission. In hls
°Onion this would be best done by increasing the Parochial rather than the episcopal clergy. It appeareo :
,t° him very strange that the Noble Lord (Lord John
Ittissell) who, while in opposition, coquetted so much
Nash the Dissenters, should now appear so zee- 1
111!A to ingratiate himself into the good opinions
of the members of the Church. He be
viewedlieved that this proceeding would not be favourably
.:__ by the constituents of the Noble Lord in
burdon, and if' they marked their sense of his conduct
elYectijoecting him as their representative at the next
it woji, and making him a martyr to his new creed,
the
euhludrlhe.j_ust punishment for his present flirtation with
(Cheers.) 1
Mr, T DUNCOMBE opposed the Bill. He consn ],
dered this measure was uncalled for, and would tend to •
excite R deep feeling of hostility against its promoters.
-toe present Government . had no right to bring such
4 measure forward, and if it was intend, d
t° increase
. the usefulness of the Church, the' '
aanuld rather increase the parochial clergy than
'tile number of Bishops.—(llear, hear.) The Hon. Gen
tletnan, after reading several letters, which he had re-
eetred from the working clergy—(Laughter)—calleti
I.Potl the House to reject the Bill, and join him in giving
''' the most decided opposition at every stage.
thr. AGLIONBY opposed the Bill, and considered
of the opponents cf the measure were the best friend-
the Government, and the sincere lovers of their reli
n•
(Hear, hear.)
k Mr. COLLETT was also opposed to the Bill, and
eteacteudgbht it very strange that such a Bill would be advo-
y a Liberal Government.—(Cries of " Divide.")
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the second reading
Against it
Majority.... —llB
On our re admission to the gallery we found Mr. DUNCOMBE denouncing the result of the divi
sinn, as disgraceful to the House.—(Cries of " Order,
order," and great uproar.)
The SPEAKER called the Hon. Gentleman to order
fore
such language, as it was unparliamentary to impugn
th decision of the House.
eMr. B. ESCOTT said, that as well as he could re-
mber, the language of the Hon. Gentleman was, that
vote come to was disgraceful to a weak adminis-
tration.
Mr. DUNCOMBE repeated what he had said, and
considered the vote most disgraceful. The Hon. Memb!.!
for Lambeth had displayed great inconsistency, for in
1836 he had voted against a Bill which was well known
as the Bishops' Bill.
...Mr. AGLIONBY defended the course pursued by the
.tion. Member for Lambeth.
Lord J. RUSSELL censured the conduct of the Op-
Position, which he characterised as quibbling, and hoped
the Rouse would see it in its true nature.
, Mr. B. OSBORNE wished to ask the Speaker if the
language of the Noble Lord was Parliamentary ?
The SPEAKER said that he would have called the
Noble Lord to order had he considered it necessary.—
(Loud cheers.)
Mr. ESCO i'll defended the course pursued by the
minority, and contended that the quibbling was all on
the other aide.

Mr. M. PHILLIPS said the best thing the House
could do, was to undo the Bill of 1636, in reference to
the Bishopric of Manchester. Nothing could be more
satisfactory to his constituents.
Sir G. GREY said that if they went into Committee
on the Bill, they might modify it thero as the House
thought proper.
The debate was then adjourned.ti'l to-morrow (this
day).
The other orders of the day having been disposed uf,
the /louse adjourned at Half pa-t Twi lve o'clock.
ECTRIC

.ODEL ROOM OF THE EL.
TELEGRAPH COMPANY.
We Were yesterday gratified by being permitted to
.tiletsepeerti the models deposited in the model room of the
Electric Telegraph Company, at 345, Strand. In this
e°lll there are working models of every electric
telegra ph that has ever been invented, and it is
kost interesting to have the gradual perfectionement
6f the instrument, from its first appearance as a mere
thilosophical toy to its present state, in which it may
th considered as a power of even greater potency than
printing press itself. Wonderful, however, as is
the
st double needle telegraph (the one at present in use)
Ith bids fair to he superseded by what we may cap
tkie sYnabolic printing telegraph. The powers of thisits
ans a thousand letters have been transmitted in one
thminute from one terminus to another. In the same room
heat° is an electrical clock, which requires no winding up,
tear which, were it not liable to wear out from wear and
the of material, might be considered as having solved
len Problem of perpetual motion. The clock will go as
el gtric as the metal of which it is made shall last, or the
ce •
ro, wires shall remain. We also visited the business-
-0E441 of theestablishment, and witnessed the transmission
444:Osage to Southampton, and the return of an answer in
ov an half a minute. The gentleman who attended
~,,ork?r the rooms was most attentive in showing the
lions ng of the models, and most lucid in,his explana-
nee 13,' the modus operandi of the various telu graphs,
lel °I
evements the
relativ-, values of the various inventions and
Pr
The
tently East India and China Association have re-
tltito) Published their comparative statement of the
hlwa ear of British sh.p with their tonnage, entered
the let Irealtr,tir oul-tsTrards from and
_to, places within
63f "143 East :India Company's Charter, from the
474 le4r4ll7Athe 30th Qt. aue, ul the pare 1446