The Sun.
London, England, 1847-06-19 00:00:00

materially interested in this question had left the House
without any attempt to enter upon its merits. He
thought that he had clearly established the fact with
which he started, viz., that the Junta had no positive or
categorical declaration of war made to them. He
wished to ask two questions from the Noble Lord,
which, if answered, would perhaps satisfactorily end the
discussion of the questiOn. He wished to know from
the Noble Lord whether the Portuguese Govern-
ment had sent any ships to take back the
Count Bowfin, and those who were sent
away with him, or at least all those who were
capable of being removed. He wished also to know
whether the allied Powers had agreed to withdraw the
forces which were advancing into Portugal, and if those
forces bad received a command to return into Spain,
and whether they were in a state of sufficient discipline
to obey the command ?
Lord PALMERSTON said that the Right Hon.
Gentleman had asked these questions in the absence of
his Right Hon. Friend, and the notice which he had
given seemed to him (Lord Palmerston) to be rather a
discussion upon the meaning of the words than any dis-
pute as to the facts. The Hon. Gentleman also entirely
omitted the fact of an announcement being made to the
Junta, and that announcement having been made, the
question was, whether it was not sufficient to have
convinced any reasonable man that there was danger in
their vessels leaving the Douro. He (Lord Palmerston)
entirely differed from the view taken by his Hon.
Friend, and thought that the notice was quite sufficient.
The Hon. Gentleman said that there was no declaration
of war. A formal declaration of war from the three
Powers to the Junta was not to be expected in the or-
dinary technicalities of diplomatic communications,
The Hon. Gentleman forgot the letter of the 15th of
May, in which it was stated that Colonel Wylde and the
Marquis of Saldanha having gone to Oporto, in order to
propose to the Junta certain articles upon the part of
the Queen, received the refusal of the Junta, to agree to
those articles, and they demanded the concession
of further articles, which were utterly inadmis-
sible.—(Hear, hear.) Colonel Wylde then made a
formal announcement to the Junta, in which be stated
that he had no other alternative but to declare to them
that the British Government, in concert with the allies
of her Most Faithful Majesty, would thereupon take such
steps as they thought most proper for affording effectual
assistance to the Queen of Portugal, to re-establish tran-
quillity in her dominions. That was the declaration
which was made ; it was a declaration announcing the
fact that effectual steps would be taken to restore tran-
quillity in Portugal, and the Junta having refused to
accept the conditions offered, the only effectual step
which remained was the employment of force. The
letter of the 25th of May referred to the seizure of the
vessels ; it stated that Sir T. Maitland, knowing the
probability of the ships of the Junta being stopped, in the
event of their continuing to carry on warlike prepara-
tions, and perceiving that both the vessels had their
steam on, and were over the bar, sent a message to the
commanding- officer, in a friendly way, requesting that
they would not proceed to sea, and stating that they had
better re-enter the Douro, and remain there for a few
days. The message, or communication, was not in
writing, but in words, as it was merely a friendly mes-
sage, sent with the design of preventing disagreeable
consequences. He thought that when the commander
of a British ship stated to those who had the
command of other ships, in the most friendly
wav, that to avoid disagreeable consequences
which might occur, that if they went out of the river,
they would most probably be taken, that was an an-
nouncement that any man, of common understand-
ing, was merely, through courtesy, to suppose
as likely to precede a hostile proceeding between the
two parties. Supposing that any two gentlemen in
private life were at issue upon any particular point, and
the one said, "My dear Sir, if you do so and so, the
great probability is that I shall knock you down, though
in the most friendly manner, I give you this notice, in
order to avoid disagreeable consequences." He (Lord
Palmerston) thought that if the gentleman happened to
be knocked down, he could not pretend to say that it
was done without some preparation as to the conse-
quences which had ensued.—(Laughter.) With regard
to the question of his Hon. Friend as to whether there
had been any information received as to the Portuguese
Government navigation ships bringing back the exiles of
Torres Vedras, no such information had, as yet, been
received. He (Lord Palmerston) supposed that, at the
time when the last dispatches came off, they had, as yet,
no means of sending for them. He had, however, great
satisfaction in stating, that he had been informed that
afternoon, by the Minister of. Portugal, that he had re-
ceived information Nom Paris, that upon the 10th of the
month, the Portuguese Government had issued a full
and: coiriplete,Amnesty, which was on'e"of the conditions
stipulated for. (Hear, hear.) -Tha,V:had been issued at
a time when the Queen's Goverstenent in Portugal had
not received any communication as to the intended stipu-
lation, or of the intention of the Government of Lisbon.
Mr. BORTIMICK—Have the prisoners left Fort
St. Jullien.
Lord PALMERSTON could not say. With regard
to the Spanish troops, with respect to which the Hon.
Gentleman had asked a question, they had no informa-
tion. He believed that none of them bad entered the
territory of Portugal with the exception of a very small
detachment who, in conjunction with the garrison of
Valencia, went to remove the guerrillas in that neigh-
bourhood. Up to the time of the 10th of this month no
account had been received of their having entered into
the territories of Portugal. In a very few days from
that time they would hear of the turn which things had
taken at Oporto, and that of course would check their
progress at once, and they would, in all probability,
return to Spain.
Mr. VILLIERS said, as the House had entered upon
a subject somewhat perlonal in its character, he hoped
he might be forgiven for entering upon a subject of a
somewhat similar nature. Yesterday evening, on going
into Committee, the Hon. Member for Weymouth had
asserted that a statement was untrue and quite a mistake.
He was anxious to clear up the matter, and therefore he
would take that opportunity of explaining to the House.
The circumstances arose out of the proceedings in the
Committee upon the Andover Union, on which the Hon.
Member for Weymouth had asked a question of Sir F.
Lewis, as to whether, on his resigning office, he had
not done so in regard to an arrangement with
his son. On his stating that fact to the
House last evening, the Honourable Member
for Weymouth denied the 'fact. If, in answer to him,
he (Mr. Villiers) bad expressed himself with more
warmth than was becoming, he apologised to the House.
—(Hear, hear.) He would refer to a letter, which he
received from Sir F. Lewis himself, stating the fact that
the question had been asked by the Hon. Member for
Weymouth, and he also referred to the report in the
Times, and the report of the Committee which was pre-
sented to the House. He thought that these authorities
concurring in his statement were strong proofs of his
accuracy in stating the fact. He had only to set him-
self right in saying that ho did not make any statement
to the House on that occasion which was not strictly
true ; and that he was sorry if he might have expressed
himself somewhat warmly on the occasion.
HEALTH OF TOWNS' BILL.
On the order of the day for going into Committee on
this Bill.
Lord G. BENTINCK presented a petition from the
Sewerage commissioners of King's Lynn against the
Bill, especially complaining of the centralization prin-
ciple and the expensive machinery proposed by the Bill,
and praying to be excluded from its effects.
Petitions of a similar spirit and prayer were pre
seated by
Mr. SPOONER—From a parish in Birmingham.
Mr. HORS VEAN—Two from associations in London.
Mr. EWART—From Surrey.
Mr. DIVETT_From Devon.
Sir
the working men of Devonport in favour of the Bill,
House to pass it into a law.
Petitions of a similar nature were presented by
Lord EBRINGTON—Eight from Marylebone.
Mr. C. BLTL L ER—From Stafford.
Lord MORPE PH—From a meeting of the working
classes at Bradford, in Yorkshire, and from the clergy
of Sutton.
Colonel SIBTHORP said he rose to move that the
House should resolve itself into Committee on this Bill
that day six months. He objected toathe Bill because it
created commissioners ; it thereby increased the pa-
tronage which the Government already possessed. The
Bill proposed to give salaries to two of those commis-
sioners. If these individuals had not patriotism or
feeling enough to disdain taking salary they were not
worthy of the trust. Ho found that inspectors were also
to be paid. That was another opportunity of cor-
ruption at elections ; such corruption as they saw
practised every day. The Bill, too, proposed to invade
the present municipal government of towns, which, to
this day, had managed pretty well. That, to him, was a
sufficient reason for opposing it. But why, he asked,
was London—was the metropolis excluded—why St.
e Governme
Giles's, their immaculate St. Giles's—why was that ex-
cluded? He knew many towns as pure, aye, purer
than the metropolis—why
n Government, r rose un pw,as ntt it
by to be left out? 0,
the Corporation, when municipal matters were meddled
with by th
the Lord Mayor
a
they said, " If you meddle with the city, if you interfere
with us ; you shall never again come into our city ; you
shall never sit at our bench, and eat our turtle—
(Laughter)—and drink our champagne, and all those
excellent things that make up a city feast. Why, one
would expect a Government would be impartial, and
above suspicion. For these reasons, besides others, ho
moved that the Bill should be committed that day six
months.

ford that under the preient system the liaise endea-
voured entirely to separate from the consideration of
these railway Bills any local interest, and he did not
see why they should not pursue the same course
with regard to other Bills that they pursued with re-
spect to railway Bills. He could only say that his
opinion had become more and more strong in favour of
having a similarity between the Committee on Railway
and other Bills, as the public were much satisfied with
the way in which these Railway Committees had dis-
charged their delicate functions. He did not think that
Members representing a local interest should be excluded
from the proceedings in the Committee, but he thought
that they should not vote upon the question.—(Hear,
hear.) He said he would give it his consideration, in
order to the system being improved at a future time.
Mr. SHAW said, from his experience, although there
might be difficulties, the preponderance was certainly in
favour of assimilating. He should, therefore, support
the motion.
Mr. EWART said that it was objected to the present
system of conducting railway business, that the repre-
sentative of a local interest could not attend the Com-
mittee which had that interest under consideration, in
the character of a judge, but he might certainly appear
as a witness, and in that way attend to his duties, and
to his clients, in an equal degree.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the resolution
Against it
Majority
Lord H. VANE moved " That the Wear Valley,
Bishop Auckland and Weardale, Weardale Extension,
and Wear and Derwent Railways, and Shildon Tunnel
Amalgamation Bill, be read the third time this day."
The Bill was then read a third time and passed.
CLARENCE RAILWAY AND LEEDS AND
THIRSK AMALGAMATION.
Lord 11. VANE moved the further consideration of
the report on this Bill.
Mr. HUDSON resisted the motion, on the ground
that the Bill contained a clause empowering the amal-
gamated company to raise money upon bonds and gua-
rantees before the shares were fully paid up.
The galleries were then cleared for a division but
none took place, and the report was agreed to, and
ordered to be engrossed.
HUDDERSFIELD AND MANCHESTER RAIL-
WAY (DEVIATIONS AND ALTERATIONS.)
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.

Messengers from the Lords brought up several Bills
which were read a first time.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL said it was not his intention
to move the adjournment of the House over to-morrow,
in order that the House might meet to-morrow to have
several Bills sent up to the Lords. He had now to
move the order of the day for going into Committee on
the Health of Towns' Bill. He perceived that his Noble
Friend, the Member for Bath, had given notice of an
amendment, but he trusted that his Noble Friend, for
the sake of facilitating the business of the House, would
not persevere in it.
Lord DUNCAN said no one was more anxious to
promote sanatory measures than himself. lie had given
notice of his amendment, because the Health of Towns'
Bill did not embrace the window tax. He had, how-
ever, no intention to go fully into that subject, but
he had given notice of his amendment, merely for the
sake of having an opportunity to mention the remark-
able fact, that within the last three or four years the
lower class of assessed houses were getting fewer and
fewer. No less than 7,000 of them had fallen off since
the tax was increased by Mr. Baring's Act. He had no
desire to impede the Noble Lord, nor had he any wish,
unnecessarily, to take up the time of the House, and he
would theretore withdraw his motion.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord G. BENTINCK said, going on with the business
to-morrow would be a great inconvenience to many
Hon. Gentlemen. Saturday had always been a holiday,
and as no notice had been given that the House would
meet to-morrow, no doubt many of them had made en-
gagements for to-morrow.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he did not propose to
proceed to-morrow with any Bill that was likely to give
rise to discussion. He simply proposed that the House
should sit to enable certain Bills to be advanced that had
come down from the Lords.
Mr. ROEBUCK suggested that the Noble Lord
might facilitate the advancement of publie business by
retraining from wasting time upon Bills that were not
likely to pass this session.—(Hear, hear.) The Rail-
way Bill, also, was another Bill which he thought there
was no chance of passing this session, and at this period
neither of them should have been brought forward to oc-
cupy the 'attention 'of Parliament: 'The: Poor-laws
Amendment Bill, however, must be.cairied,:and. he was'
of opinion that the Noble Lord should consider the time
of the House, and only deal with those measures which
he intended should be passed, and not take up their
time unnecessarily.
LUNATIC ASYLUM (No. 2) BILL.
On the motion of Lord J. RUSSELL, this Bill was
read a third time and passed.
HEALTH OF TOWNS' BILL.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL, in moving the order of the
day for going into Committee on this Bill, said that he
could not coincide in the observations which had been
;ust made by the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath.
He was of opinion that it would not be acting fairly,
either to the Government or to the House, to presume
that there was a host of objections to this Bill,
when no notice whatever had been given of them,
and to forthwith proceed on that presumption in
the manner he suggested. The Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman also said that the Poor-law Amendment Bill
must be passed. There had been a great many objec-
tions to this Bill, but this ought not to deter them from
proceeding with the measure, and endeavouring to pass
it into a law. He should now, therefore, move that the
House do go into Committee on the Health of Towns
Bill, that he might have an opportunity of hearing what
those formidable objections were which Hon. Members
had to propose against it.
Mr. ROEBUCK said that the Noble Lord had
misunderstood him. He did not want the Noble
Lord to withdraw this or any other Bill,
but only not to occupy their time unnecessarily.
or bring under their consideration Bills which he had no
intention of passing into a law this session. The very
circumstance of the Noble Lord saying that he wished
to hear what formidable objections there were to the
measure, showed that he had no intention of carrying
it into a law this session.
Mr. MACKINNON thought the Hon. and Learned
Member for Bath was rather severe upon the Noble
Lord, and that with regard to the Bill before
the House, an ample opportunity should be given for
discussing its merits.
Mr. WAKLEY wished to know whether the House
was to sit to-morrow to proceed with unopposed Bills ?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—BiIIs in their unopposed
stages.

Mr. WAKLEY said that he was unable to distin-
guish between those Bills which were opposed, and
those which were unopposed. With regard to one Bill
—the House of Commons Cost Taxation Bill—the re-
port on which stood for further consideration, it had
not, as far as he. understood, been opposed in any
shape it had yet gone through, but neither the Govern-
ment nor the House were aware whether that would be
an unopposed Bill or not. He thought if the Govern-
ment would take a review of the various Bills before
the House, and tell them on Monday what those were
which they were going to abandon, and what they in-
tended to proceed with, it would be a great convenience
to the-House, and of great advantage to the public.
They would then see what business they had before
them, and what the intentions of the Government were
with 'respect to the Bills. He wished to ask the Hon.
Member for Lancashire what his intentions were with
regard to the measure to which he had referred,
as a great number of solicitors were anxious to know
whether it was to be proceeded with this session. He
would be glad to know, therefore, whether it was in-
tended to be proceeded with before the evidence on which
it professed to be founded was laid before the House.
With regard to the Health of Towns' Bill, he felt in-
debted to the Government for bringing on the measure,
as it was of great public importance, and he hoped no-
thing would induce them to abandon it.
Mr. GitEENE said that, with regard to the question
put to him by the Hon. Member for Finsbury, he did
not wish to give an answer in the absence of the Hon.
Member for Montrose, as it emanated from a Committee
of which he was the chairman. On Thursday next,
however, he would acquaint the Hon. Gentleman whe-
ther it should be proceeded with or not.
After a few words from Mr. G. PALMER,
Mr. HUDSON said that it was unfair to ask the
House to sit to-morrow, as no notice had been given of
that intention, and many Hon. Gentlemen had made en-
gagements which would necessarily prevent them from
attending.
Mr. DIVETT said that he considered that the pre-
sent was a most ill considered Bill, and he was of opi-
nion that it should be withdrawn from the House.
Mr. PROTIIEROE said that he would consider it his
duty to give it his most strenuous support through all its
stages. His only complaint against the Noble Lord was
that he did not include the city of Westminster in its
provisions, for it wanted it as sadly as any other.
Mr. BURKE was opposed to the Bill, and he called
upon the landed interest to oppose it in every possible
manner. They should do so on one principle, as the
lists would subject the rural districts to the town corpo•
rations. It was a notorious fact that the poor were now
subsisting on either a voluntary rate or the benevolence
of individual charity, and he would ask the Noble Lord
was this a time when a new liability should be placed
upon the landed proprietary ?
Lord MORPETII—I do not rise to stop the discus-
sion on this question, but merely to state that it is by no
means intended to include the rural districts within the
jurisdiction of the corporations; it is true that there are
provisions for widening the boundaries of towns, but
there are none which would operate in the manner de-
scribed by the Hon. Gentleman.
Mr. BROTHERTON said that he would support the
Bill which was most beneficial, and he did trust that the
Government would persevere with it against every op-
position.

Mr. WILLIAMS was surprised at the course taken
by certain country towns in reference to this Bill. He
admitted he was also surprised that the metropolis, which
needed the Bill as much as any other place, perhaps
more should have been left out. Hoping that that would
be remedied at another time, and considering that some
objectionable parts of the Bill had been excluded,
namely, the appointment of. the Commissioners by the
Government, he would support the Bill in its progress
through the House.

Mr:INT E WDEGA.TE complained that certain words as
" town" and " district" used frequently in the first
clauses of the Bill, were indefinite and much too
wide. No one knew to what property it was to
be applied. The effect of it would be to
subject districts to taxes which they did not now pay,
and from which, when they did pay them, they would re-
ceive no benefit. The people would be subjected to taxation
for what immediately concerned others and others only,
a proceeding which was quite opposed to the common
law of the country. But it was not merely because of
the injustice done to outlying districts that he objected
to this Bill. He objected to it on the broad principle
that local governments should be independent of
any Government in that House. Ile objected
to it as the Corporation of Birmingham objected
to it. He objected to this policy because,
step by step, they were departing from the
principles of the British constitution. lie objected to the
interference with the municipal corporations of the
country; he objected to the doing away at "one fell

- Mr. BORTHWICK supported the Bill, and took oc-
casion to defend himself from certain expressions of Mr.
Macaulay on the debate with reference to Portugal.
That Honourable Member said that his (Mr.
Borthwick's) statements could never have been
made by a person who was acquainted with the
state of facts, or made conscientiously. The Hon.
Member then read a letter from the brother of General
Sa La Dandiera, which bore out the statement made to
the House by him on that occasion. He therefore would
repeat every. thing which he had then stated in] the
fullest and most peremptory manner. It had been said
that a friendly assurance had been given to the fleet that
they were not to leave the Douro. Was that a friendly
assurance?—was it a friendly assurance to tell a man that
he would be shot if he attempted to leave his house?
He would not enter any further upon that part of the
question. He was "however, sorry to see that all the
Wilding men of the opposition who ought to be most

.. ~

~

LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, JUNE 19, 1847.

swoop" with refractOrT Town Councils; he objected to
the giving of such extended powers to any Government
Commissioners; and he objected the more, because they
sought to introduce this Bill at so advanced a period of
the session,—(llear, hear.) This was an attempt, under
the guise of sanatory regulations, to break up the insti-
tutions of the country. These institutions might be
good or bad; he objected, at all events, to their destroy-
ing these at the beck of Parliament. He felt very
warmly on this subject, and he trusted the louse would
not be induced to adopt a course of policy which, if con-
tinued, must irretrievably lead to mischief and confusion.
Mr. ROEBUCK said he very much suspected some-
thing when an appeal was made to his popular feelings
by Gentlemen on the opposite side. He was exceedingly
jealous of such new born appeals ; it looked as if Hon.
Members were bidding a high price for popularity. But
this law was a most important one, and ought to he
treated with that gravity it deserved. The Hon. Gen-
tleman had objected to the centralizing principle of this
Bill, but, by centralization he (Mr. Roebuck) understood
a body, or individual, accountable to Government for the
carrying into effect the principles and provisions of any
Bill. What did the Noble Lord who brought forward
the Bill propose to do ? He saw a vast variety of inte-
rests laying scattered abroad, and waste, which, if ga-
thered together, might be rendered useful to the. publie
good. The Noble Lord deserved the thanks of the
country for his effort to render these interests useful.
But there was one district which had not been con-
templated in the Noble Lord's Bill, which, more than
any other, required the cleansing influence of this
measure ; and if he wished to draw a circle around this
district, he would place, as on the centre of it, his finger
on St. Paul's Cathedral. Here, within a circle of 30
miles, he found upwards of 2,000,000. Bath was to be
attacked, Chester was to be improved, and Birmingham
was to be cleansed of all its abominations, however vile
these might be, by the operation of this Bill. But when
the Noble Lord came to London, although he
found there a mass of monstrosities sufficient
•to frighten Milton's Satan, the Noble Lord
was not at liberty to touch London, and the
evils of the district around St. Paul's flourished
in as rank luxuriance as ever. Why was the corpora-
tion of London to be permitted to perpetuate every
physical impurity within their jurisdiction? but above
all, why did it strike terror into the heart of the Trea-
sury bench, when an Hon. Member of that House got
up to complain of the injustice. They had Noble Lord
after Noble Lord, and Learned Gentleman after Learned
Gentleman, getting up in their places and protesting
that the Corporation of London were a most praise-
worthy, upright, straightforward body, when in their
very minds they believed them to be just the reverse.
What influence was it then that enabled the City of
London to be excluded from the operation of this Bill?
(Heir, Hear.) Again, there was Westminster, Mary-
lebone, and Southwark ; why were these places
to be exempted from experiencing the purifying
influences of this Bill. Time was when the city of
London was the centre of all that was great, and liberal,
and good, but it did not stand now in that enviable po-
sition. It was now a mere mass of parties, who being
closely bound together by their individual interests, had
great influence and power in their possession ; but they
wanted the generosity to use it with discretion and
humanity.
Mr. HORSMAN regretted that this question had
been so delayed and procrastinated. A similar Bill to
the one now under discussion had been long wanting,
and Government ought to have run all risks to
get it passed. It was not a question of come
fort, but of protecting the lives of the people,
for the reports and returns upon the table
proved, that thousands upon thousands annually fell
victims to the want of due and proper sanatory regula-
tions in Manchester and Liverpool. In no place were
these regulations more required than within the bills of
mortality. The burial-grounds within that boundary
were terribly crowded, and yet day after day the number
of graves was being added to. This question had now
been before the House for the last seven years, and he
thought the House and the public ought to be put in
possession of the difficulties which prevented Govern-
ment from carrying it out. It had excited a good deal
of interest throughout the country, and he thought
the fact, that while an exceedingly large cumber of peti-
tions had been presented in its favour, but a very few
indeed had been presented against it sufficiently proved,
that the public felt that a time had arrived when a
measure of this sort ought to be passed into a law.—
(Hear.) That difficulties did stand in the way of carry-
ing this Bill he entertained no doubt whatever, but he
felt sincerely, that if Government would proceed by slow
asd 'sure to carry out the principles of. sanatory
regulations they must ultimately succeed in carrying
out the Measure to the fullest extent.—(Hear, hear.)
He was, afraid the Noble Lord at the head of
the Woods and Forests, in his endeavours to carry out
his plan had not met with the sympathies of all his col-
leagues, but still do not let that make the Noble Lord
despair of ultimately succeeding in his benevolent and
charitable design. In the next Parliament he would
venture to prophecy the opinions of the Noble Lord's
friends upon this subject would have undergone a consi-
derable change, and therefore he urged upon the Noble
Lord to carry out as much of his plan now, and leave the
rest to be achieved in a future: session.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. BANKES thought that, after the large promises
that were made, and expectations which were raised by
this Bill, it was very unsatisfactory to find a measure
proposed that was neither just nor general in its prin-
ciples, and was, also entirely different from such a mea-
sure as had been prayed for in the numerous petitions
presented to the House on the subject. The Govern-
ment were bound, before they ventured to proceed fur-
ther with the Bill, to account for the omission of the
metropolis from the provisions of the Act. Not one of
the Members for the city of London had been present
during the speech of the Hon. and Learned Member for
Bath—noteone of its aldermen were present on the occa-
sion; perhaps the absence of the latter Hon. Gentlemen
might be ascribed to its being dinner hour.—(Laughter.)
Taking St. Paul's church as the centre of a circle, it
would be found that within its circumference upwards of
2,000,000 of inhabitants were congregated together,
making the strongest possible case to induce the Go-
vernment to extend the provisions of the Bill to that im-
mense population. If the city of London and its Lord
Mayor were to be exempt from the operation of the Bill,
why was it that his Right Hon. Friend the Lord Mayor
of York, and the city of York itself, were to be included
under its provisions ? Was it to be said that the city of
York required more purification than London ? It had
been well said that the Bill was either a benefit or a
charge ; and in either of these -points of view it was
unfair to make a particular choice of London to the ex-
clusion of all the other towns and cities of England.
The present Bill proposed to create a large number of
commissioners, inspectors, and other officers, and it was
a complete waste of time for the House
to spend night after night in the discussion
of this and similar measures proved a num-
ber of commissionships under the patronage of
the Government. The exception of London was most
decidedly unjust, and unless the House were assured that
the city of London and the other metropolitan boroughs
should be included in the Bill, he should feel it his duty
to oppose the Bill to the utmost of his ability.
'Lord MORPETH thought that the Government had
not been treated quite fairly in the attacks which had
been made upon it by Hon. Members on both sides of
the House with respect to this Bill. He was first
attacked for including the metropolis, and then Jae was
copiously attacked for omitting it.—(Hear.) The lion.
Member for Dorsetshire asked him if he was not
pledged to the exemption of the metropolis from the
Bill ? Now, after what he had long since stated from his
place in Parliament, he thought there could be no doubt
on this point.—(Hear, hear.) He might then be asked
why it was left out ?—(Hear, hear.) He had to say that
it had been left out because—(The Noble Lord here
made a short pause, which caused great laughter.)—He
had only to appeal to the recollection of lion. Members
themselves as to what had taken place in the House re-
specting it, and to the important and urgent measures re-
quired for the sister country, and which wholly absorbed
the attention of the Government and the House, as his
justification for the omission of the metropolis. Had the
necessary time been at his disposal, he would not have
thought of omitting it, but this not being the case, he
was reluctantly obliged to defer the application of the
measure to the metropolis for the present session.—
(Laughter.) He said, therefore, that it was want of
time to deal with a measure so complicated and so ex-
tensive which induced him to alter his determination,
and to confine his attention for the present to that part
of it which there was a probability of carrying into a law
this session. The lion. Member for Bath taunted him
with having cut his stick.—(Mr. Roebuck—" No, I did
not.")—Well, the observation has been made by some
lion. Gentleman, and the Member for Cockermouth had
reproached him for not introducing a measure respecting
intermural interment. He had only to say, that if he
were able to accomplish what he proposed with regard
to the present measure, though the metropolis was not
included, he should consider that he had performed
no mean achievement.—(Hear, hear.) lie felt, how-
ever, that he should not be influenced by the
attacks that had been made upon him, and that
he ought rather to invite reproaches than otherwise.
as this would agitate the question, and induce him, or
whoever might afterwards fill his situation, to follow the
matter up, and complete what he had left undone.—
(Hear, hear.) Those who represented that he had been
induced to omit the metropolis from a regard to his own
leisure and convenience—(Cries of " No, no ")—had
little idea of the kind of life he had led since Easter—
(Hear, hear)—or they would not entertain such an idea.
However, he had one abiding resolve that he would con-
tinue to do what he could, when he could, and how he
could, to promOte sanatory improvement. He could assure
Hon. Members, that if they had the opportunity of see-
ing the number of letters which he had received upon
the subject, and of the increasing extent of fever and dis-
ease—which was aggravated, if not caused by the ab-
sence of all sanatory regulations—the absence of those
provisions which it was the object of the present Bill to
introduce—if they considered that the mortality which
was the consequence, and which pervaded all classes of
society, the wealthy and the indigent portion of society,
he felt sure they would not be insensible to the great
necessity which existed for a measure of sanatory regula-
tions. If they postponed all legislation on this subject,
during the present session and postponed all plans and
surveys, they should have to defer the measure for two
years more, and do nothing to stay the evils which at
present existed throughout the country. When he last
addressed the House upon the subject, he referred to
somo returns from the Registrar-General, to show the
mortality which prevailed in some districts. The Noble
Lord then read extracts from the last return. In the
summer quarter of 1846 the mortality, it appeared, had
been greater than it had been for any similar period
during the previous six years. In the winter quarter,
56,105 persons had died in those districts, from
which the returns had been made up. And it
appeared that the annual mortality for England and
Wales amounted to 120,000. The health of towns
generally had been stationary, if not retrograding. Now,
though London had been omitted from the Bill, he

triftted the House woeld not omit the opportunity to
ednpt means to red !ce the mortality of England to as
great an extent as it was possible to effect. The peti-
tions from various places in England had been referred
to, and the Hon. Member for Dorsetshire told them that
these did not refer to the Bill as it at present stood, but
to the original measure. He (Lord Morpeth)did not think
that these petitions, coming as they did from different
places in England, could refer to the Bill as it applied to
London, but to themselves and to general advantage,—
(Hear, hear)—and none of the provisions of the Bill, as
far as it applied to the towns of England, were altered at
all from the original Bill.—(Hear, hear.) These peti-
tions, therefore, could only refer to the present Bill.
There were thirteen presented from corporations and
public bodies, twenty-eight from clergymen, magistrates,
&e.. forty-seven from the inhabitants of towns, thirty from
medical men, fifty-six from operative and working classes,
and thirteen from associations and societies, making
altogether 187 in favour of the Bill. This was the
number up to the end of May, but there had been a con-
siderable number since. There had been presented
against the Bill two petitions from societies, six from
water companies, seven from paving boards, and five
from landowners—altogether against the Bill 22. The
account, therefore, stood thus-220 petitions in favour of
the Bill, and 22 against it. He trusted this preponde-
rance showed at least to what side public opinion in Eng-
land manifestly pointed. A resolution had been forwarded
to him from the Health of Towns Association of the me-
tropolis, in favour of the Bill, and this association was
composed of clergymen, members of the medical pro-
fession, and others well qualified to judge of the effects
of sanatory regulations. He knew it was sometimes said
that those who were foremost in supporting and giving
opinions in favour of any great public question, were
sometimes influenced by interested motives, but as this
association was composed of members of the College of
Physicians, and the College of Surgeons, &c., he
thought -it would be admitted such an imputation
would not be applied in the present case.—(Hear, hear.)
He did not then propose to enter into the details of the
clauses, but he trusted, when the time came for doing so
he should be able to show that, though the Bill did merit
a special central superintendence, it did not in any way
seek to supersede or paralyse local agencies. That it
was the great object now to employ local agencies,
not to fetter them, but only to give to them
assistance by the aid of central wisdom and
experience. He trusted that it would also be shown
that all the necessary functions for carrying on sanatory
improvement were entertained in the Bill, associated
with it a central body, because it was manifest that
superintendence could only be satisfactorily entertained
by one central superintendence and management—that
with respect to waterwork companies, though he
admitted that the Bill allowed a compulsory pur-
chase of them, satisfactory arrangements could be made.
The insertion of such a power was he thought based on
good reasons, but as it was a part which might be
objected to in its details, and the way in which the purchase
was to be regulated with a view to a proper considera-
tion of their claims, he should be ready in Committee
to discuss all its provisions, to give due consideration to
all special clauses and provisions, to see if they have
been wisely and rightly proposed, to see if they could
he properly amended. He hoped, therefore, that the
House would not refuse the Government the pre-
liminary step of going into Committee upon it ;
but that they would proceed to the consideration of it
with an anxious hope to work out that good from it of
which it might be rendered capable; and he would add,
that he did feel an anxiety on the subject—an anxiety
not grounded on any party considerations, still less on
any personal considerations—an anxiety not derived
from any fear of its results, either on the part of the
Government with whom it had originated, or on the part
of the Member of Parliament who had introduced it; but
an anxiety grounded upon the affecting and appalling
accounts which he daily received from all parts of the
country, and which, he confessed, had had that effect
upon his mind as almost to induce him to mix an actual
entreaty with the appeal which he now made to the
House, not to refuse to go into Committee, where any
alterations could be made, and not to delay any longer
the progress of the great work of sanatory reform.
Mr. HORSMAN said if anything had fallen from
him at all disrespectful to the Government, or to the
Noble Lord, who had introduced the Bill, he had to ex-
press his regret. He thought, however, that he had
treated the Bill simply as a Government measure,
and as one which would affect a vast num-
ber of the people. If anything had fallen
from him imputing blame to the Noble Lord, he could
assure him that it gave him great pain.
.Mr. MILES ',Opposed the further progress of' the Bill,
and in the abstract agreed with the Hon. Gentleman the
Member for Cockermouth (Mr. Horsman) that no one
in that House wished to impute improper or unworthy
motives to the Noble Lord.—(Hear, hear.) Some time
ago it was stated that the Government intended to in-
troduce a measure to improve the sanatory condition of
all large towns; but no one ever thought that the po-
pulous city of London would be exempted from its ope-
ration, especially when so many eminent medical autho-
rities and others connected with the City had urged the
necessity of such a measure. He asked the Government,
in the name of humanity, how they could think of
leaving out the city of London, with its 2,000,000 in-
habitants? Why, they were suffering from the want of
water—from the want of proper drainage, and, in fact
from the want of every necessary.—(Loud laughter.)
No later than the 26th of last May, a deputation from
the parish of Farringdon Without, headed by Dr.
Lynch, waited upon the Lord Mayor, and pointed out
to him the frightful sanatory condition of that ward,
which they stated was one of the most neglected districts
in this respect in the City. He did not complain of the
general principle of the Bill ; but he complained of it
because it was partial.—(Hear, hear.) Still, if they
went into Committee upon it, it would have to be de-
bated clause by clause, because it contained many ob
jectionable provisions. He believed that the intentions
of the Noble Lord were most sincere and praiseworthy;
but the Bill, as it at present stood, was deficient. He
besought him to withdraw it for the present session, and
bring it forward in an amended state during the en-
suing session, when he promised him his support. He
should, unless the Noble Lord gave an assurance of this
kind, feel it his duty to vote against going into Com-
mittee with the Bill.
Lord LINCOLN was unwilling to delay the progress of
the Bill by any observations not pertinent to the sub-
ject with which it was connected, but as he had been
pointed at as the individual who had advised the Noble
Lord to exempt the city of London from its provisions,
he thought it right that he should enter into some ex-
planation. He advised the Noble Lord to exempt the
city of London, because of the length of time which
would be necessary to bring the cumbersome machinery
which would be necessary into play, and from
the facility with which it could be carried
out in other towns less densely populated.
By any observations which he had made, he did not
mean to imply that he approved of the machinery intro-
duced by the Noble Lord, and he was bound to say that
his former objections to that machinery were strength-
ened rather than diminished.—(Hear, hear.) He
would not now enter into any discus-ion upon it, as he
thought that the proper place to do so was when the Bill
went into Committee. He was of opinion that the Noble
Lord went far beyond the very sound principle which he
had laid down, namely, " that the proper course
was to have local authority .and local superin-
tendence, only assisted by a central authority."
Whereas he had greatly exceded that object,
and had provided a central authority which would
control and supersede all local authority. He
was anxious to explain to the house his opinions, and
what were the grounds of his objection to the measure
of the Noble Lord, as he stated before, he should vote
with the Noble Lord, for going into Committee, and
against the Gallant Colonel, if he intended to divide
the House upon his amendment, because he should be
unwilling that it should be considered that he was ad-
verse to the object sought to be attained by the Bill.
Perhaps he might be allowed to remark that if the
Noble Lord did not intend to proceed with this Bill until
a future session, and if he found that he was unable to
do so, he should abandon it for this session of Parliament.
It would be wise for him to introdnce a single clause,
by which a great many important objects of the present
Bill might be obtained, such a clause would not take
more than a week to pass. It would be simply to
enable the Town Council and the Commissioners of
Paving and Lighting to carry into effect the provisions
of the Towns Improvement Consolidation Bill, giving
them an optional power to do so would confer a real and
practical benefit; without such a clause the Bill would be
perfectly inoperative, whereas by passing it they would
give life and vitality to its very important provisions.
He should vote for going into Committee.
Sir J. lIANMER said that he happened to represent
one of those to wns which were worst circumstanced (Hull),
as far as regarded sanatory regulations ; and he, there-
fore could not avoid saying that he hoped that the Go-
vernment would carry into operation some portion of
this measure, although they might not be able to reach
every thing which might be desired by carrying out the
present suggestion, a step would be made in a right di-
rection, and a signal benefit would be conferred on the
country before they returned to their constituents.
Mr. HENLEY said lie did not intend to vote for going
into Committee, especially as this Bill extended its
provisions to the rural districts ; he did not I know
what the Government intended, but he could tell
them that, according to its present construc-
tion, it was applicable to every acre of land in England.
They shrank from dealing with a great evil when it
existed under their noses, and yet they travelled over
the country to Mid out plans on which they might exer-
cise their ingenuity. He thought the measure a bad mea-
sure, intended to be carried out by bad means. He did
not think that the framers of the Bill knew very well
what they were about. Did they know that, after seven
years, by the operation of the Bill, no houses would
remain untaxed ? Didithey mean also to enforce party
walls on all houses built in small villages ? The thing
was absurd, and yet such was the case under the Towns'
Improvement Bill, which was incorporated with this Bill
in one small clause. He should give his decided oppo-
sition to this measure.

Mr. HUDSON complained that the Government
dealt out one measure to tke City of London, and
r and very different measure to the provinces.
saniomteheHon. Members did indeed say that the country
districts of England—and one Hon. Member had par-
ticularly referred to the inhabitants of Yeolnk—were
particularly partial to the measure. He died that
g
that was the case. They were desirous of some sanatory
reulations, but they were decidedly av
measure. But now the matter of sanatory erse
r to this
regulations
had been pressed to an unreasonable degree.
He hoped that the House would resist the measure pass-
ing through the House this session. The country was
perfectly sick of the system of centralization, they wished
to attend to their own business themselves.
Lord J. RUSSELL said, that if the Hon. Member for
Sunderland were right, that all the corporations were
able to conduct their own business themselves, then there
was no necessity for any legislative interference what- I
ever. He thought that the most consistent course for