The Sun.
London, England, 1812-07-14 00:00:00

THE PUBLIC PEACE.

Lord CASTLEREAGH moved the second reading
of the Bill for the better preservation of the rub-
Peace through Out the kingdom.
Mr. WHITBREAD objected to the second read-
ing of the Bill, on the ground that it proceeded
upon false enactments. The Bill stated, " that
arms were industriously concealed:" • There was
no 'evidence before the House of Commons to
prove that allegation, and the only evidence be-
fore the Committee was documentary, derived
from certain Magistrates, • .who had.reeeived'ario-
nymons information to that effect. Those very
Magistrates were in such a state of consternation,
that their evidence could not be depended upon.
From the whole of their conduct, there was no
ground 'to suppose that the laws in, force had been
vigorously executed. According to the evidence,
-they in some instances acted with supineness ; in
others, they exhibited symptoms of violence, and_
perverted judgment. There was no evidence down
to Friclay.last, the day on which this Bill was in-
troduced, ; the country was not in a tranquil
state. The Bill went on further -to state, " that
Meetings were held by night and by day." The
Committee had not one tittle of evidence to' bear
out this allegation. The Noble Lord had stated
the other night, in respect to this part of the Bill,
that seven hundred per Sons weie assembled, he
believed, near Ashton-under-Line. He (Mr. W.)
bad heard from another quarter, three hundred ; --
but supposing the former number bad assembled,
that did tiotquaktl out the allegation that they met
by night and by day, for they assembled, accord-
ing to the Noble Lord, at church time. The
whole of the' enactments were objectionable ;. and
that in particular which gave authority to the Ma-
gistrates to act out'of their- own precincts. Tile
Hon. Gentleman again condemned the system of,
spies, and adverted to what fallen from the Mem-
ber for Yorkshire on the former night, when the
Hon. Member ascribed these outrages as originat-
ing in libellous and seditious publications. Mr.
-Whitbread denied that the origin was any other
than the Otders in Council : the cause of the evil
was now removed by the revocation of those Or-
ders—the men found employment, and were trans
quil. It had been stated, too, that these outrages
Were directed by men of high condition., nay, he
had the affidavit of a man tried at Lancaster; to
shew that a Magistrate had come to him in the
prison, with a view to extort from the *Criminal a
confession that he (Mr. Whitbread) was the very
person who instigated the riots What was-the
fact ? Why that some of these urea being lineup,
ployed, wrote to hini, asking his. advice, whether
they should petition Parliament ; and, in answer,
he wrote them word that he 'thought they had
better state the cause of their grievances.--,
This letter was made the ground of presump-
tion, that he was at the head of the rioters.—
So besotted Was the imagination of some of the
alarmists, that an idle ramour for-some time ob-
tained credit, that the Duke of York was about
to advocate the cause of these deluded people.—
Would the House beliete that so ridiculous a sup-
position could eater into the heads of any re-
spectable set of met? These things, however,
made him cote to the conclusion not to grant •
the Magistracy any of the powers provided in
this Bill. A Magistrate who had beard Oat a
man of respectability in his county was named in
the Committee as one of the instigators of the
riots, though not before suspected, took "occasion
to promulgate his name throughout the cdinity—
this person was a Pretbyterian. -The HOnourable
Gentleman could not avoid entering his protest
against the Bill, when he saw the operation of

of the Orders h Co-uncil---tbat the
potteries were fully employed, that the men were
returning to their work contented and—heppy,
and. that Nottingham and other places .were.aiso
4raminil, should therefore take the sense of
the House upon it, though he did .not expect to
make'much impression. He then took occasion
to recommend to his Majesty's Ministers to take
this opportunity of ascertaining whether peace
could flat be made upon honourable terms. He
thought this a most favourable opportunity:—
Sooner, however, than make peace on any other
than honourable terms, he would risk the ekter:-
mination of the notish Empire. He knew that
if the Manufacturer/were ,copyineed that the de-
lay in making peace was not the fault of. GoVern-
ment, but of the enemy, they would sit doWn
contented under 4all their sufferings. The Hon.
Gentleman (Mr. Wilberforce)
,stniled at what he
said; he hoped it Was not the smile of disb:'lief.
(N 6 ! Laid Mr. Wiltelforce).-----He must again re
peat, that it was the bounden duty of Ministers to
make an attempt to procure a general peace for
theworld. He never knew a time mom-proiitious
than the present. fie would not ask of the Noble
Lord the nature of the communication madeSOMC
time since from France, but-he had/heard that_the
French Government, offered terms for peace.--
Thaesbewed the disposition of the enemy, and
the necessity, of the repose of Europe justified the
experiment. He trusted it,would be tried:

Mr. SMITH supported the Bill, and wished to
state the gronrids'of his vote, because he was con-
neeted by residence to that part of
_the country .
where it particularly applied. • He wished that
the Report of the Secret Committee had, been ac-
companied by large extracts, so as to have en-
abled Geatlemciap judge' of'the necessity of this
strong meaauret isinothing bet an over-rnling
Cessity could justify its adoption. He.could state, -
from his own knowledge, that the cause for alarm -
excited in the , West. Riding of Yorkshire, had
been ,understeted rather than overstated..--(ei cry
of hear, hear )7-7-Tl:se Report in sithstance -was
coreeet, but with 'respect to the distresses in the-
panufacturing districts, in some degreelhOse dis-
tresses • certainly arose from the \val. ; bat he
should be Concealing, a main feature of the origin of,
the disturbanCes, if he did not say they. bore the
character: of a systematic, political opposition to-
the Government, to. order, and to the laws, and
a desire to attack prOperty. The distress in trade
had 'afforded, a Olden opportunity to the lovers of
discord to erect their Standard ; they knew they
could only arrive at the top of their object by cir-
culating puNications 'condemning all pubic men,
and reflecting upon the Government. There was
no man less anxious to stop the liberty of the
press than himself; but if that liberty was used
licentionsly, then it becamethe Government to
use legal means to curb it., It was necessary to
form a good and strong Government. What -he
meant by a good Government was, .that descrip-
tion of Government which would not give to the
people a pretext for reasonable complaint, and by
a strong Governments he meant strength to resist
unreasonable clamour. It was a matter on which
be could noepossibly determine; whether Govern-
ment had used all the measures in their power to
repress these discontents.. With the Secrets Ser -
vice Money, and with the other means in their
possession, they might perhaps have been able to
apprehend the disturbers of the public peace,
without having recourse to any additional legisla-
tive provision. But circumstanced as affairs now
were, a legislative provision appeared to him to
afford the only reasonable chance of remedying
the existing disorders. lie trusted, however, that
the two following .principles would nit be lost
sight of—first, that the enactments of the Bill
should be temporary, and for the shortest time
that the necessity of the case would admit; se-
condly, that-no more power should be given to
the Magistrates than was indispensable to the at-
tainment of the object in view; the House alwayS
bearing in mind, that what was added to the au-
thority of the 'Magistracy was deducted from. the
liberty of the subject. In this view of the questi-
on, he certainly entertained objections to that
part of the Bill which Went to compel all indivi-
duals, willing or unwilling, to surrender their
arms to the-demand of two Magistrates ; this proe
-vision appeared. to overstep the necessity of the •
case, and the 'consequences ,might be- very injuri-
.ous.- To that enactment of the Bill, by which
- those who assembled -tumultuary meetings were
Made guilty -of misdemeanours, he had nq objec-
tion' whatever. He thought it an act of human-
lay thus to avert the improper course of these de-
- laded -persons, before they. plunged deeper into
. guilt,- and subjected themselves- to more condign
punishment. For the concurrent_ jurisdiction to
-to he given by the Bill to the Magistrates of the
disturbed counties, he also heartily assented. The
Hon. Gentleman concluded by apologising for
having so- long occupied the attention of the
House'. 'He hat] thrown out what had- occurred to
to him with respect to the proposed measure, and
would cheerfully subscribe to whatever might be
the determination of Parliament upon it.-
- Mr. M. FITZGEitALD. observed, that those who
gave credit to the testimony borne by the Hon.
Gentleman who had just sat down to the state of
•the country, and to the consternation excited by
the late. tumults, could not concur with the Hon..
Gentleman who had preceded him; in the opinion
, that the pieamble of the-Bill was false, and that
the Inevure itself Was colluded on the-assumption
of a necessity which did not really exist. The
long, extraordinary, and he must be allowed to
say, ineonchisive speech, of the HonourableMem-
ber for Bedford, contained only two arguments
against the Bill, That- Hon. Gentleman's objects
Con to giving an extended power to the Magi-
stracy in general, -.was grounded on the 'ilia-
. :conduct of individual Magistrates. The Ho-
nourable Gentleman stated, that a Magi-
strate had entered the cell of a convicted
person--(Mr. Whithiead, across the table, denied
- having said it was a' Magistrate who had done
this),—lf not a Magistrate the argument of the
Ilork Gent. was still more inconclusive than he
imagined. What! because an ordinary
indivi-
dual had attempted to- extort from a convicted per-
son • evidienee -against the lion. Gentleman—an
occurrence 'indeed of too despicable a nature to
have even been mentioned in that House—was
the Hon. Gentleman justified in asserting that
the pdscer of the Magistracy ought not to be ex-

tended ? The Hon. Gentleman had also cho3e9
to refer to the manner in which a polder similar
to that conferred by this Bill had been exercised
in Ireland. But it would have been fair had the
lion. Gentleman-recollected the state of Ireland
at that period. That acts of horror had been com-
mitted in that country, he (Mr. F.) would not
dens. I\lo one, not even .the Hon. Gentleman,
could suspect him of beroming the :apologist of
such acts. But the circumstances of the two
countries were widely different. And with re-
spect to the Insurrection Laws 111 Ireland, it wrtri
well known, that they expiied in two years after
the union, and that they had not been acted upoli.
But was the necessity for their existence less be-
cause they had not been enforced ?----He wou=ld
not follow the Hon. Gentletnan through the ex;
traneous parts of his *tell. If the subject 01
peace had any cotinc.i.ion With the question he.-
fore the douse, it was all's only;---that it was a
subject which he should ,have thou.ght on scicll t 1
occasion every Hon. Member would wish to avcia.
Coinoious, as every man in that Hou, excerl:
the lon. Gentleman, must be, that peace on ho-
noui.able terms could not be obtained at the pie'
sent moment, he was peranaded that no one but
the Hon. Gentleman would 'have adverted too the
topic'; although he was glad to bear the HO3.
Gentleman dee'lare, that, Unless on proper and ha-
nourable ternis,‘peaceoutOt not to be concludelL
Adverting to, the oberyations made by the Hons.
Gentleman who spdke last, he observed, that the
temporary nature of the Bill suet the ideas of O
HOn..Gentleman, andas to th e2llOn.Gentlenian'3
objections to the proVigiOnly which the Magis-,
trates were empowered to search fOr arms, it on ;lit.
to be recollected that in times`of danger the con"
venience; and even the- ordinary rights of', indivi-
duals', must be made -tti bend to the public: safety-
„He concurred in the opinion of the Hon. Meriiber
for Bedford, thaf his opposition to the Bill would
not inake.miieb impression on the
•Mouse or 00
the Country, and lie trusted that the Hon. Goat,:
would concurwith him in the hope that the "nu
might be effectual in the uttaii'unent of tile object.
for which it was iatroductd:•

Sir F. BURDETT denied that the speech of thi-'-
iion.Gentleman who had- just spoicen, had at 101-
'shaken the arguineuts of the Hon. Gentlenian
hicii(gr. Whitbread) 11Ce-Coipfirred with tL"1:
Hon. Gentleinan in thining that theee was 14G--
thing in the evidence before the Honse which wo-
rantec..3 the recital in the 'preamble, or which j(ls-
tified the necessity of the bill Even the
tie of the Bill was defective. instead of 't
a Bill to preserez!'-t.',ie peace," it ought tin
be
termed " 7 Bill to disturb the peace, -by gi'Ong
undue Fewer to the Magistracy."He though'
the Magistrates had already, in many cases,
bited great violence and intemperance, and I'
particularly reprobated the st stem of employi6s
spies to Stir up, and entrap, and bring.to purnsia-.
meat the 'unhappy people. This Was -a „53tcat
worthy of the Devil alone. It was 'whimsical to
hear the Hon. Gentleman below him (Mr. SP.;ithi.
talk of the necessity of a stronger Goc.,erninclft--
What Government 'could he stronger than .o'7
which carried all before- it; and a:,Tinsv -6°s'l

will the laws of the realm, and the rights and Fr'-,
vileges of the subject were unable to stand ?
was no reason to suppose that the existing
of the Magistrates was insufficient to 5..“3p-n'a-
riots and diaturbances, which it was confessed
themselves on the decline, and he therefore
ed with great jealousy, and great apprehen,ipei°,
abuse, the increase of authority proposed o`..
given. Even the Magistrate's present power
too frequently abused. It was lately at'at.ed 111 the
papers, that two young men, who had been Nv(3l-
m 'a ;
g athouse in the country, and whO had ther'
by become acquainted with the servants; vrc'''4
some, time afterwards., as they were aa1103.;
in the neighbourhood, invited into the finTe
by the servants. They were there found by,t"
master, who was very angry oil the occasnl:
but who, not contenting himself with a rept:,
mand, took them before a clerical Magistrate or
the neighbourhood, who committed these'
honest labouring men to gaol for burglary !
happened in the month Of August, just after `I;
Assizes The men remained ironed in ,stone e
e
until one of them died, and when a Bill was
seated' to the Grand Jury against the other;
next spring, the Grand Jury immediately threfe'a
out.. This was not a solitary instance—. aIoWA
case had occurred, in which an individual,l!`")l,
been-treated in a • similar manner, and in wr-lhcia
the result had , been
,precisely the same:, 13
opinion, therefore, it would better tend to
serve the peace,' were the power of the l'if't'..strates curtailed and regulated, rather •tlagal
tended. .It was euriouS to remark the dlifereall.
'modes of thinking at different times in ihiS ca
try. By the old Acts of Parliament, it apP°l.3s
that when disturbances took place,, a course sit.,
pursued the reverse of that now proposed. ;3,,
old times it was the practice to arm all the in'iva
bitants ; to put them under the direction of 5°.101
constituted authority, and to make the Shall: A
every county responsible,• and every districtllo.,r•
county responsihlefor the mischief that might oce,
In proof of this he referred to the Statute
13th of Edward I.; a. statute to which be
vainly hoped the House would have looked
guide in their late proceedings 'for regnlatioa'
watch and ward. Our ancesiors, on suell""ca-.a
sloes, did not 'depart from: the Constitution'
armed and organized all the inhabitants of toe
turned districts, and punished, those who w°}3-1a;
not so arm to repress the disturbers of the P
peace. Now, however, Parliament set about ti;g
.arming the people. He could not conceive 'l,s4
• thing more humiliating. He could not eonee:ll,
any thing to be a more complete badge Qf sl`o,
For himself, he would rather die. on his t.1.1",di
hold' than give up his arms. He was corlyiPc_eia
that if the powers to be given by the Bill Lsid
not exercised with discretion, it was ealf.3ll"'re-
to put the whole country in a flame. Ft'
specs to the strange supposition, that the golf,
tit/
able Gentleman (Mr. Whitbread) was one od
instigators of these disturbances', it appe'f.re wit
tremely ridiculous to the House that it 5573,5110(1'
so in the country. The ignorance abd
ness of, the 'people in the country were ast3.llo
ing ; even in that House imputationi of a s,lleilbate
nature were sometimes heard. In the last • ell
on the bill, the late Secretary of State.. i°
Home Department threw out an intimatl93

it
17,13urdett) had some systeTriatie d6ign in
°l-14:31:4,the Bill. it was plain enough, though
'v'ts certainly false enough; that, the systematic
imputed to him, was one hostile to the
k.,onstitution. lie had 6ut•One design—to keep
t
"=t!lr. the Throlie and the People, and to get
a SVSi..III hi that House inimical to.
:111ati.ever been, and such ever would -be tke
-Leinatic design of his political. life. With re-
- to what had 'been said of thaiiberty of the
ued,.that if any man had 'a right
". thus far shall -it go, and, no further. 3"
i)erty of the PreSs .was at an end: For dif-
nen would of course view in different lights
er, iineof boundary.. In his ,opinion it
flee and unlimited- discussion of..
through the medium of the Press,
be elicited, Even the veryca-
e.Press contrilauted to that great oh-
woyel that the Press was Unshackled.
that an injury done to an individual
should ,be as, 'severely punished as
tined by an indivichial in-any other
he conten:led, that by trying to 'put
e Press, as it respected :public affairs,
t was defeating their own -obje•Fr, and
g a narrow andp 'mistaken system of'
errin:r, credit on their calumniators.
ii 61e, reprobating the Manner in %100
toitti,trltiee. had been formed, perceiving
eport afforded no reason for departing
ished lacy, convinced that it Would
safe and efficacious to adhere to
oberving that by that law a' great num-
the. recent ofknders had actually been pu-
lais:it,.;

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