The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-19 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 18.

The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour.
Mr. DUGDALE presented several petitions from
Derbyshire, against any alteration of the Corn-laws.
Mr. GREENE presented several petitions against the
New Poor-law.

Sir J. TYRELL presented a number of petitions from
Essex, against a repeal of The Corn-laws.
Mr. WALLACE presented petitions from Notting-
hamshire, Dorsetshire, and Cambridgeshire, against the
Poor-laws.

Mr. BROTHERTON presentel petitions from Sal-
ford, Manchester, and Northamptonshire, praying for a
repeal of the Corn-laws.
Mr. STRUTT presented a petition from Derby com-
plaining of great distress, and praying fin. a repeal of
the Corn-laws ; also 13 petitions from agricultural villages
in the same county, praying for the adoption of the
measures alter Majesty's Ministers and for the abolition
of the CorpAaws.
Mr. MILES presented a petition from the county of
Somerset in favour of Church Extension.

Mr. CLAY presented a petition from Bow in favour of
the Ministerial measure for the reduction of the duties
on sugar, timber, and corn.

Air:ROUND presented a petition from a parish in
Essex against any alteration in the Corn-laws ; also
six petitions from parishes in the same county,
praying for Church Extension.

l'ar.-BEAMISH presented a paition from Cork,
againstanyalteration in the Timber Duties.

11A:1VES presented several petitions, praying for
the relief of all political offenders.

Mr. WILLIAM DUNCOMBE presented a petition
from York in favour of Church Extension.
Sir U. BATEsos presented two petitions from Down
against Church Patronage in Scotland.
Mr. PACKE presented a petition from Leicester
against any alteration in the Corn-laws.

'Mr. B CSFIELD presented a petition from-Bradford
in favour of the Ministerial plan for the reduction of the
duties on sugar, timber, and corn.
Mr. BLAKEMORE presented a petition from Wells
in favour of Church Extension.
Sir F. TRENCH presented a petition from Scar-
borough against any alterations in the Corn-laws.
Mr. DARBY presented several petitions praying for
Church Extension.

Lord HILLSBOROUGH presented a petition against
any alteration in the Corn-laws.

Mr. T. DUNCOMBEpresenied a petition from New-
castle-upon-Tyne, against the payment of Ministers out
of poor-rates ; also a petition from Westminster in favour
of Medical Reform ; and two petitions from places in
Norfolk, praying for the release of political prisoners.
Mr. KIMBLE presented petitions from places in
Suftblk and Wilts against any further grant to the Col-
lege of Maynooth.

-The SPEAKER, accompanied by several Members, here
proceeded, in obedience to the summons of the Usher of
the Black Rod, to hear the Royal Assent given to seve-
ral Bills, for which see Lords' Report.
Mr. R. PALMER presented a petition from a place in
Berkshire, praying for Church Extension.
Mr. B. WOOD presented a petition from a place in
Yorkshire against Church-rates, and the jurisdiction of
Ecclesiastical Courts.

Sir H. PARNELL presented a petition from Dundee
in favour of a repeal of the Corn-laws.

A petition to the same effect was presented by `Mr.
EWART, from a place in Lancashire.
Colonel CONOLLY presented a petition from a place
in the cOun'ty- TSTrone, praying for a repeal of the
Church Temporalities Bill, and the restoration of the
suppressed Archbishoprics and Bishoprics in Ireland.
Also a petition from another place in the same county,
against any further grant to the college of 11Iaynooth.
Sir J. C. HOBHOUSE presented a petition from a
place in Berkshire against the Corn-laws ; also another
to the same effect from a place in Wiltshire.
Mr. HUME presented petitions from the inhabitants
of Hammersmith and Brentford, praying for a free trade
in corn, and in all articles of food. Also a petition from
Brentford in favour of the Government proposal for the
reduction of duties. Also a similar petition from the
workmen in a manufactory at Bolton.
Lord ARTIIUR LENNOX presented petitions from
Suffolk in favour of Church Extension.

Mr. W. S. O'BRIEN postponed his motion on the
subject of railways for Ireland till Thursday next.
Mr. lIINDLEY gave notice that on Thursday next
he should move for a return of the number of Barristers
appointed by the Judges within the last year for the re-
vision of the Lists of Parliamentary Voters in England
and Wales, with the date of their standing at the bar.
Mr. lIUME moved for an abstract of the net revenue
of the Island of Jamaica for the years 1838, 1839, and
1840, with the manner in which it had been appropri-
ated. Also, a return of the population of the island
during the last century, distinguishing the black, white,
and coloured. The Hon. Member then gave notice, that
on the third reading of the County Coroners' Bill, he
should move that the mileage be reduced from 18d. to

POLICE.
Mr. HUME moved for a return of the number of per-
sons taken into custody by the Metropolitan Police-
officers, and the charges, in classes, on which they were
taken, showing how the several charges were finally
disposed of, and whether by Magistrates or otherwise,
between the Ist gay of January and the 31st day
of December 1840) agreeable to the form sent) ; a similar
Return from the City of London Police ; the like from
Birmingham ; the like from Liverpool ; the like from
Manchester. Return of the Establishment in Scot-
land Yard, and all other expenses of the Metropo-
litan Police for the year 1840, not included in Par-
liamentary Paper No. 172, of 1841 ; distinguishing the
names, offices, salaries, and other emoluments of each, so
as to bring the entire annual expense of the Metropolitan
Police in that year before the House. Return, for the like
period, of the number of burglaries or robberies reported
to the several divisions or station houses as having been
committed , distinguishing the number of cases in which
the offenders have been apprehended, and the alleged
value of the property stolen. A similar return from the
City of London Police ; the like from Birmingham ; the
like from Manchester ; the like from Liverpool.
Return, during the like period, of the amount of property
found upon persons charged as being drunk, and
subsequently restored, for the Metropolitan Police ;
a similar return for the City of London ; the
like for Birmingham ; the like for Liverpool ;
the like for Manchester. Return of the gross amount
of the Superannuation Fund since the establishment of
the City of London Police Force, with the deductions
a similar return from the Metropolitan
Police.—Ordered.
MISPRINT IN
which
otherwise hav e been ; made or charged thereon, as pensions
orTHE PARLIAMENTARY
RETURNS.
Mr. GOULBURN said that in the return of the com-
munications made by the colonial agents to the Secretary
of State for the Colonies on' the subject of the sugar
duties, printed for the use of the Members of that House,

Mr. SHIEI rose and said the department with which
he had the honour to be connected afforded him some
iustification, perhaps, if he ventured to take part in a de-
bate which he felt had been protracted beyond the ordi-
nary period of their deliberations, but not a period in-
commensurate with the importance the incal-
culable importance—of the subject. He should be
prepared not to trespass at any inappropriate length
upon the indulgence of those by whom he was sur-
rounded, or the forbearance of those to whom he was
opposed. He should confine himself in a great measure
to the resolution before the House. He should not
follow the example of those who wandered away from it,
and indulged in discussions of a somewhat mys-
terious nature. He should in the first instance apply
himself to that branch of the question in
which England—virtuous and humane England—
felt a deep and most honourable concern.—(Hear,
hear.) If to the progress of the slave trade, by any
differential duties between foreign and colonial sugar,
an effectual impediment were to be imposed—if, not-
withstanding an exorbitant differential duty, the
slave-trade were not successful to an extent which,
it had been justly observed by his Right Hon. Friend
the Member for the Tower Hamlets cast upon Chris-
tian Europe a deep stain—if to slave grown sugar
every port upon the Continent was not widely
andindiscriminately thrown open—if they were
not themselves the importers of slave-grown
produce—if. with slave produce in many forms, their
own markets were not literally glutted—if they
were not the importers, the refiners, and the ex-
porters of slave-grown sugar to the Continent, and
even to their ovi& colonial possessions to an enormous
extent, then he was free to confess that with respect to
the propriety of making a reduction in the differential
duties it could not for a moment be supposed that, for the
interests of humanity, as well as for the protec-
tion of their own colonies, he should not be dis-
posed to entertain such a question.—(Hear, hear.)
But when he considered that in checking the progress
of the slave trade the differential duty had been utterly
without avail, when he found that the differential duty
was, withont casting any, the slightest impediment, upon
that most barbarous traffic—that it had the effect
of impairing the national resources of the country,
and, by enhancing the cost of some of the necessaries
of life, of imposing on the humbler classes of the
community a grievous change,—when he found that
that differential duty had not contributed to the advan-
tage of any one large portion of the community, with the
exception (they would forgive him for so saying) of some
benevolent monopolist—(Cheers from the Ministerial
benches)—whose sensibilities were not unprompted by
the pockets—(Laughter from the Ministerial Benches)—
and who, to the emotions of what he would venture to
call their interested philanthropy, found it a convenient
or easy course whenever a purpose, personal or
political, was to be promoted—when he took those various
considerations into account, he owned he was at a loss
to consider the sound motives that existed for giving
a continued sustainment to a system fraught with
multifarious evils, or of supporting the resolution
of the Noble Lord. His Hon. Friend the Member for
Finsbury (Mr. T. Duncombe) had spoken of the resolu-
tion of the Noble Lord in terms harsher than it
deserved. He said that the resolution was marked
by duplicity and hypocrisy. He (Mr. Sheil) could
not coincide with his Hon. Friend, in so far censuring
that resolution. But he thought one might venture to
say that that resolution was conceived in a spirit of par-
tisanship. He (Mr. Sheil) could not refrain from ex-
pressing his surprise that the Right Hon. Gentleman
the Member for the Tower Hamlets (Dr. Lushington)
should have considered it consistent with his unaffected
abhorrence of slavery—if his abhorrence was unaffected
—(Ministerial cheers)—to give his support to the
Noble Lord's resolution. It did not require the forensic
and judicial sagacity of his Right Hon. Friend, for after
allit did not profess to contain any pledge against the in-
troduction of slave-grown sugar. It provided a ready re-
treat to the rear ; he should rather call them the
novel associates of his Right Honourable Friend
from the high ground of humanity which they
had so opportunely taken. And why ? The House
of Commons was not prepared—no; was not yet pre-
pared—(Ministerial cheers)—to sanction the introduc-
tion of slave-grown sugar, to give somewhat of an
intimation that under their (the Conservative's) happier
auspices—(Ministerial cheers)—through that prepara-
tory process, a more accommodating House of Commons
might be prevailed upon to pass a similar Bill to that
objected to by the party opposite.—(Loud cheers.)
But again, if doubts could be entertained as to the
effect and the object of the resolution, those
doubts would be entirely removed by the speech,
the frank and candid speech, of the Noble Lord the
Member for North Lancashire, who had again and
again, with a studied reiteration, declared that
for the present a great experiment ought not to be
interfered with. But how little in accordance with
the resolution, so dexterously, so carefully—he
would not say craftily—framed was the frank, in-
genious, and in the cause of virtue, so ardent and
impassioned character of his (Mr. Shell's) Right • Hon.
Friend the Member for Tower Hamlets, who, if be were
present, would- surely forgive him (Mr. Shell)
if he ventured to insinuate that in supporting
ayesolution so couched he was almost as inconsistent as
certain incongruous sentimentalists, who would not allow ,
of the use of slave labour in a saccharine form, while
they in other ways promiscuously and unscrupulously
consumed it. He would pass from the resolution to
the great anomalies by which our commercial
system was distinguished. In the year 1840 we im-
ported upwards of twenty-eight millions pounds of coffee,
and of that great quantity upwards of fourteen millions
pounds were the growth of slave labour. The
Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire
had observed that our colonial possessions were inade-
quate to the supply of coffee for the British market ; but
surely if the encouragement of slave labour was not to
depend on considerations of mercantile convenience
it was not from the price-current their morality was to
be estimated.—(Hear.) When the duty on coffee—and
he begged the attention of the House to the fact— when
the duty on coffee was Is. 7d. per lb., the colonies were
adequate to the supply of coffee for our consumption,
but so soon as the duty was reduced, the colonies were no
longer adequate for that purpose. It was worth while
to look into the details of the question of coffee.
In the year 1807 the duty was I s. 7d. per lb., and the
quantity imported was 1,170,164 lbs., while the revenue
was only 161,2451. Now mark what followed. In the
year 1812 the duty was reduced to 7d. and the quantity
of coffee consumed rose to upwards of 8,000,0001b5. In
the year 1831 the duty was reduced to 6d., and the con-
sumption rose to 21,842,0001b5. For the year 1840 the
consumption rose to 28,000,7231b5., and the revenue
rose to to the sum of 922,0001.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
These facts appeared to him illustrative of many things.
The Noble Lord would remember that when the duty was
high the colonies were depressed, but the moment the duty
was reduced they became flourishing. Out of 28,000,000,
fourteen millions of pounds were the growth of the Brazils.
Now this was a great inconsistency, but really he
must say, that it was nothing when compared
with another, namely, the anomaly of our receiv-
ing, refining, and importing slave-grown sugar to
an enormous annual amount. In the year 1840
was imported upwards of 800,000 CWtS* of
slave-grown sugar which was refined and ex-
ported. Was any duty levied on it that it

might contribute to the revenue of the country ? Not
a single sixpence was raised upon it. How absurd,
then, to exclude it from the home market when a duty
might be levied.—(Hear, hear.) And not only was
no duty levied, but all the expense incidental
to the bonded system was incurred. This was a great
contradiction, to which he imagined it would be difficult
to find a greater.--(Hear, hear.) He thought the
Noble Lord the Member for South Lancashire (Lord
F. Egerton), with all his powerful imagination, would
be unable to reconcile it. Perhaps the Hon. Member
for Newcastle and the Noble Lord the Member for
North Lancashire, would volunteer a defence of
this monopoly. The admirable perspicacity of the
Noble Lord, the Member for North Lancashire,
had attempted to do so, under the influence of feelings
of partizanship, from which none of them were
exempt, and of which his last speech afforded
a remarkable instance.--(Hear, hear, hear.) Many
of these topics j had been treated so ably by
those , who preceded him, that he felt he was
relieved from the difficulty of attempting to follow
the Noble Lord, but there was one point to which
he would take the liberiy of adverting (Hear,
hear)—because it was a question of fact, on
which, though he might shrink from argument, he
might, perhaps, venture to follow the Noble Lord. The
Noble Lord had adverted to a communication which he had
held with Mr. Huskisson, and he (Mr: Sheil) confessed
that he had heard the statement, whichthe Noble Lord
had made. respecting the opinions of his illustrious prede-
cessor, if not his master, with some degree of surprise.
Mr. Huskisson made two remarkable speeches in March
1830,and he found:in them language which he had not heard
in the many quotations which had been, lately, made
from the speeches of that illustrious man—(Hear,.hear)
—and he quoted this language, not for the purpose
solely of influencing the House, but that the pub-
lic might know what were the real opinions of that man
who stood in the foremost ground amongst the philoso-
phers of his day. The first paseage was 'to be found in p. 541
of Hansard's Debates. He was describing the difficulties of
the country at the time he said, " It is the greatest folly to
shut our eyes to difficulties, which, if taken in time,
maybe overcome, but which by procrastination cannot be
evaded for a long time."—(Cheers.) " This is the
greatest manufacturing and commercial nation in tha
world. The raw material of our soil which we export
is next to nothing. In fact, we do not raise
sufficient for the support of our own popubition
without the assistance of other nations."—(Loud cheers.)
" The Corn-laws, however necessary in the present state
of the country are a burthen—(Loud cheers)—they
press upon the manufacturing producers, and
exclude them from the markets of other parts
of the world, and limit their supply of
food ; and I consider Sugar as well as corn an ar-
ticle of food."—(Cheers.) These (said Mr. Sheil)
were the words of Mr. Huskisson. In p. 576 of the same
volume he said that if the relief required by the industrious
classes were afforded them they would be disposed to
take more of the produce of the soil. But there
was a remark more important still which he made on
the 25th of March, on the motion of Mr. Poulett Thom-
son ; it would be found in page 555 of Hansard. He said
on that occasioh that it was always his conviction that
the Corn-laws now in existence could not much longer
be upheld—(Cheering)—consistently with bearing the
present taxation and increasing the national prosperity
and maintaining public content.—(Cheers.) Neither
had he (Mr. Huskisson), any doubt that they could be
altered without injury to the landed interest,
but with great increase to the comforts of the people.
Compare these opinions with the representations made by
his distinguished pupil a few nights ago!—(Hear, hear.)
These were the opinions of Mr. Huskisson in 1830,
when he left the party with which the Noble Lor.l,
his disciple, was now united. He would pass now to
the claims of the West Indians. In a speech made on
the 11th of February last, in the island of Trinidad, by
a gentleman who held a high position (Mr. Bensley), that
gentleman, at a meeting of agriculturists, after speaking
of the right of the West Indians to be disenthralled from
all restrictions upon their trade, said he would hail with
pleasure the day when every monopoly and restriction
could, advantageously for the rest of the public, be
done away; that now that emancipation had been effected,
the agriculturists of Trinidad would be able to compete
with those of any part of the world. He (Mr. Sheil)
saw many West Indians on the other side of
the House. His chief complaint against them
was that they did not fairly state their
hardships. Their case was that we had emancipated the
slaves in i 1833, and a part of the compensation was a
continuance of the duties. The case against them was this;
"We effected a ransom, the very thought of which dazzles
their imagination,and we claim a receipt in full."-(Cheers.)
But the Noble Lord who brought in the Bill has de-
clared that he did not state it as any part of his
contract that the duties should be continued.
He had watched the speech of the Noble Lord, who
had stated himself to have been the organ of the
Whig Government in carrying the great measure of
slave emancipation, and no sentence had he uttered, in
no part of his speech could the slightest intimation be
found, that he had considered the continuance of the
monopoly as a part of the contract.—(Loud cheers.)
The Honourable Member for Newark had said it was.
Now whose authority were they to take ?—(Cheers.)
The Hon. Member for Newark had told them, with his
usual frankness, that the people of England, since
1833, had paid ten millions to the West Indians in con-
sequence of the monopoly.—(Cheers.) The Noble Lord
the Member for North Lancashire had not adverted to
that.—(Cheers.) The Noble Lord had thought when
he first proposed the measure of emancipation that a
loan of fifteen millions would be a sufficient remuneration
to the West India interests, he who was now contending that
the monopoly ought not to be destroyed—(Cheers.)
But in a fit of unexampled generosity, a generosity, too,
be it observed, at the expense of the people—(Cheers and
laughter)—he had all at once converted the loan of fifteeen
millions into a gift of twenty millions—(Cheers)--and
that without rhyme or reason.—(Cheers.) Perhaps he
was right in doing so, but he had not said one word
about the monopoly being continued as part of the contract.
The Hon. Member for Newark had fairly admitted that,
since 1833, the West Indians had received ten millions in
consequence of the monopoly, but he (Mr. Sheil) could
show that they had received a great deal more. He had
asked his Hon. Friend Mr. M`Gregor if the Hon. Member
for Newark was right in his calculation, and Mr. M‘Gre-
gor had said he was not, and that the West Indians had
received a great deal more, and, at his request, Mr.
M`Gregor had drawn up a table, from which it
appeared that the West Indians had received
19,243,4651. instead of ten millions, in consequence of the
monopoly.—(Hear, hear, from Sir A. Grant.) The Hon.
Member for Cambridge cried " Hear, hear," and appeared
surprised at the amount of benefit which had been con-
ferred on the West Indians. He was evidently not aware
of it. But the Hon Member for Newark knew better
—(Hear, and cheers)—and if he stated ten millions as a
profit derived from the monopoly, what reason
was there why the Board of Trade should not
go further ? Why the Board of Trade had shown
that the ten millions ought to have been twenty.
They had as much right do so as the Noble Lord had
to convert a loan of fifteen millions into a gift of twenty.
He would read the table to the House if they wished it,
although he was aware that, abhorring as they did all vul-
gar things, they abhorred that vulgar thing arithmetic
the nioSt of anY.—(Cheers and laughter.) In 1834 the
quantity of sugar consumed was 4,154,4111b5., which at
6s. 2d., which was the premiums given to the West
In-
dians, amounted to 1,280,9431. In 1840 the quantity
amounted 3,764,7101b5, which, with the differential duty
of 11. Is. 7d. gave to the West Indians an advantage of
5,192,0001.—(Cheer5.) Now the Hon. Member for New-
ark might be wrong, or the Board of Trade might be
wrong, but when that lion. Member admitted that they,
had received ten millions, he ought not to be so incre-
dulous when he (Mr. Sheil) produced his figures in sup-
port of the calculations of the Board of Trade. Sup-
posing a continuance of the monopoly was part of the
contract—he was glad to see his Hon. Friend the Mem-
ber for Beverley, who was an East India Director, in
his place—(Laughter)—supposing a continuance of the
monopoly was part of the contract, what would the
East Indians say ?—(Cheers.) When the equalization of
the duties on East and West India sugar was under dis-
cussion, he recollected the eloquence of his Hon.
Friend. It was then stated that the West India sugar
was the produce of slave-labour, while the East India
sugar was the produce of dates. He recollected the
scorn with which his Hon. Friend the Member for
Beverley treated the proposition. But now that they
had got the privileges themselves, now that they were
embraced in the monopoly, they turned round and formed
a confederacy with the West India proprietors, and expa-
tiated upon maintaining colonial produce. They thought
little of the enormous sacrifice he had proved to them
had taken place.—(Hear.) The resolutions spoke of
sacrifices, and the resolution of the Noble Lord, the
Member for Liverpool, spoke of sacrifices also. When
the recruiting of the revenue was the subject to be con-
sidered, then it was that endeaiours were made to,keep
up imposition, such conduct would be a proceeding far
greater than reducing the price upon sugar, by which
means it would be brought into consumption, and
thereby increase the revenue. If, from a reduction
of the duty on coffee, such consequences followed
as he had adverted to, did it not follow that the
reduction on sugar, which was an ingredient so
much used in coffee, the same results would follow.
And mark ! independently of the great advtadvantagesthey
conferred upon the great mass of community, they, in
the first place, cheapened one of the first necessaries of
life, and in the next place, it was obvious that theyif
took more of the produce of other countries, other coun-
tries would take more of the produce of theirs. Thus
the manufactures of the country had extended, and to
that extent the operatives must be
relieved.—(Cheers.)
He had heard with great pain the description given by
f
Friend theo f )Ntlheem
countrye for
T o Finsburythn
to:
stthi
ffee
rsitnagt es
of s the. operativesn.
Hon. Members opposite were everywhere, he hoped, at
the hustings, he •was sure, most deeply alive.-.....(Hear,
and a laugh)—but when the. means of alleviation—the
obvious means of alleviation—were offered to them__
(Loud cheers)—they sacrificed the interests of those
classes for whom so much. commiseration. was expressed
c h policy,eers)
and he was willing to believe that if they continued to,
commercial
adhere to their new system o_f
mem; aarm,
consequences the most disastrous and serious must
be entailed upon that counry.
in machinery, the
They were met upon the Continent. by prohibitory tariffs,
and no wonder. All their discoveries
finest, the most vast, and the most powerful, of which they