The Sun.
London, England, 1847-05-14 00:00:00

GREAT NORTHERN (DEVIATIONS FROM

LONDON TO GaBNT7l4lllt).
Mr. Packe, the Deputy-Chairman of the Company, and
Mr. Charles Miller, ex-Mayor of Grantham, were also ex-
amined in favour of the line.
This closed the case of the promoters; when that Lr the
opposition was proceeded with.
Mr. Welby, M.P. for Grantham, was then examined, and
gave evidence as to the injury which would be caused to Mr.
Oastler's house by the proposed deviation.
Mr. Wood, the architect who built the house and Mr.
Oastler's agent, confirmed this evidence.
The Committee then adjourned till twelve o'clock on
Monday.

GROUP XVIII.
The Committee met this morning at twelve o'clock—the
Earl of Lincoln in the chair—when
Mr. TALBOT replied on behalf of the Great Western Com •
pany, and, after clearing away all the erroneous suppositions,
that he or his clients intend any the slightest disrespect to
the inhabitants of Cheltenham, proceeded to say that be be-
lieved that they were fully entitled to have all their com-
plaints freely and thoroughly investigated. The view which
he had always taken was that a priori, most astounding,
that, in this happy country, which had been the parent of
such eminent engineering skill, there should be found such a
case of difficulty in Cheltenham, that men like Mr. Brand,
who possessed not only a European but an Asiatic reputa-
tion, were unable to grapple with it. As an Englishman, he
must say that it would to him be a matter of affliction if
any such insurmountable obstacle could exist. Here there
had been not only the talents of Mr. Brunel, but of Mr.
Cubitt, Sir J. Rennie, Mr. Simpson, and Mr. Hawkshawe
applied to investigate the causes of this difficulty, and to
ascertain the best means of surmounting it. But the doubt
which he entertained, if he entertained it at all, was al-
together removed when he remembered that, peculiar as the
soil of Cheltenham might be—and peculiar it certainly was—
the very same difficulty had been overcome by Mr. Stephen-
son in his works on the North-Western Railway at Camden-
town. He was free to confess, in his opening speech to the
Committee, now about a month ago, he had been somewhat
rash, for he had mixed himself and Mr. Brunel up with
things which were altogether different in their character,
and had stated, as, indeed, he must state now, namely, that
the passage through Cheltenham was, and was intended to
be, neither more nor less than a common railway cutting;
and if there was a difficulty at all from the pressure of the
water, it surely would be ascertained by the present condi-
tion of the sewer that had been formed by the construction of
the Gloucester Railway. They had proved the level of the
sewers; they had called Mr. Paul, who had been the sur-
veyor of the sewers, as well as several other witnesses, and
those witnesses had proved that the level of the sewer was
precisely the same in 1846 as it was in 1845, and that in
1845 it was precisely the same as it was in the year 1836.
It was true that there had been some evidence which proved
that the height of the water in the wells had been altered.
But was it likely to be othewise, when, during the last
few years, there had been a population growing up cf tens
of thousands, and when every man who sank his
well lower than his neighbour robbed him of the quantity of
water that he had previously enjoyed? Why, there was pre-
r Up's. NPo,E.esaqi&
I Harmed by the abstruction of their usual supply of water,
and they had sunk a well down into the sandstone, and had
succeeded in draining the springs for three thousand feet
on each side of it. And all the witnesses who had been ad-
duced from Cheltenham had each stated that when they had
sunk their well lower, they had each recovered the
water that had been abstracted by the formation of the
I sewer. Further than this, it had been put in evidence by
Mr. Dawke, that only at a distance of 374 yards from the
Gloucester Railway, the water absolutely stood higher in the
sand than it did in the cutting of the line; and every engi-
neer who had been called on the other side had all, without
a single exception, repudiated every notion that the water
would be permanently abstracted. Mr. Wood, Mr.
Locke, Mr. Leather. and Mr. Gibbs, had all said
that, although the work would. be difficult and expen-
sive, yet, after all, the water would not be permanently,
even if it were temporarily, abstracted ; and even Mr.
Stephenson himself had allowed that the level of the water
would not be permanently altered. In truth, it was the wit-
nesses for the Great Western project who had stated most
strongly the difficulties which would have to be encountered.
Mr. Brunel's plan was to pump out the water from the exca-
vation by small portions at a time, so that the in-
stance which had been adduced by Mr. Stephenson of the
pressure of forty feet at the Kilsby tunnel was not
a case at all in point, and he must charge that gentleman
with something like disingenuousness in making such a
charge. It had been asserted, from the letter of Mr. Close,
that the water had been reduced eight feet in the line of its
level, but on cross-examination that gentleman had ad-
mitted that his letter was awkwardly expressed, and that a
casual reader might have so understood him, but that in
reality it was not so. This was his answer
to the Cheltenham case, and he firmly believed
that if the respectable inhabitants of that place
heard such eminent men as Mr. Locke and Mr. Gibbs state
that it was merely a matter of expense to the company,
the whole of their opposition would be immediately with-
drawn. Then, as to that great objection respecting the station
at Cheltenham, it had been shown that the flow there was
upwards instead of downwards; and even if there were, as
was represented, a pressure at that point of 5 feet 9 inches,
a flooring of 2 feet 4% inches would be amply sufficient.
And with respect to the assertion that the water could
:lever pass under the railway in the way which was
supposed, Mr. Stephenson 'himself had allowed, that
even if the piling did prevent its crossing at one particular
place, it would follow the bend of the work and ultimately
rind its way after the same course. Then as to the attack
on the estimates, an attack which he had hoped never to see,
sad which of all things he least expected from a company
of such railway experience as the North-Western, he would
show that it was utterly groundless and insufficient
for its object. The works had been estimated at
60,0001., and the land at 85,0001. ; but Mr. Haynes
and Mr. Dawke had together made out that those
were quite insufficient, and that they ought for all
these purposes to be at least 287,0001.; but evon Mr.
Stephenson himself had not ventured to attack these calcu-
lations ; and even it the allegations of excess were correct, if
it was true that the works would cost 90,0001. more than
they 'had been estimated, there was still an ample supply in
the million which Mr. Brunel had taken as the capital for the
line, for out of it there were 200,000/. for which no occupation
had been provided. He had made these remarks, because
he really expected that the main ground of objection would
be the abstraction of the water. As to the assertion that
there would be great injury to the house property in Chel-
tenham, Mr. Brunel had shown that there were only six
houses which would in any way be affected, at least injuri-
ously, in the whole of the town, and with the present mania
for central stations, it was impossible to prevent some injury ;
but taking the main case which had been brought forward—
he meant that of the Wesleyan chapel and the place of
worship used by the followers of Ladyliunti ngdon,—he thought
the Committee would not consider it to be of much import-
ance, when they recollected that since the construction of the
line, a gorgeous ecclesiastical edifice had been erected within
fifty-five yards of the Great Western Railway. This, he be-
lieved, would close all that he had to say respecting the
Cheltenham case, and he would now proceed to unfold the
second volume of this same work, of which one was quite
sufficient, and to enter upon what he believed to be the real
merits of the case. He was not blind to what was passing
around him, and allowing for them all the importance of the
representations in the fourth estate of the realm, and
acceding at once to the assertions of the difficulty of
raising capital at the present time, he would at the same time
express his conviction that it was in no way applicable to
the opposition of the North-Western Company ; for if it were
applicable to all, it was equally applicable to both companies,
and was easily to be met by the insertion of clause giving a
power to construct the line in five or six years instead of
three. He trusted, therefore, that the Committee would at
once come to a decision upon the matter. There must
be railway communication to Cheltenham. That was
a matter upon which no one could entertain a
doubt; and that being the case, the only question was
by whom it should be made. There had already
been ten years of litigation, and a very expensive litigation
it had been. Then, on what principles were they to decide?
AGlrre.artiilldNy,eaartd had,
ern in the
Company first blow which he levelled, opened
the whole subject which guage was to be preferred. The
Fish-
guard,whole of through
ance
country
tile dist between Ireland to this district, had already a line from
Sth Wales, and had indeed opened up the
Ireland and the
unbroken and continuouswereto be
withmetropolis;
aviewtoan shorten
iofr
thete n
Bill of that company
herons, if they interposed granted, there would be an
communication all the way.
the narrow gauge, if they did
break the communication, theisir wtould at least very seriously
cripple it. That this was a
, the
traer no doubt, for if this
to the Forest of Dean thereci ec sou Dal 1()
drewf cm immense importance
od fin.reoeme ti
itlye
itt,.haciording
bhere break
cut
o of
ffg;a gauge were
whichalelooawled
pocket of the purchaser at Cheltenham
to the representations of their opponents?,
at 15s. 2d. a ton. On the narrow guage theree soldwa
already access to the Derbyshire and Leicester coalfields''
and only allow the Staffordshire coal to come by the narrow'
gauge, and they would at once insulate the Forest of Dean
aifilothwertehwe railway
tinhethßeinlie,iagnha-
make a broad gauge line from the west,
bourhoo
coal as
d amtlcthll• B
asl
and the Committee
itwnats
only in Cheltenham, but in Oxford also, a
would give, not
d• tdistricts.
scuse the legal effect
The
Learned Counsel then went on to di,
fair competition for the coals of the it eren