The Sun.
London, England, 1840-03-27 00:00:00

IRISH REGISTRATION-ADJOURNED
DEBATE.

The Order of the Day have been read for resuming
the adjourned debate on the Irish Registration Bill,
Mr. Sergeant CURItIE rose to address the House,
but from the noise which prevailed at the bar, and the
low tone in which he spoke, the Hon. and Learned
Member was almost wholly inaudible throughout the
entire of his speech. He was ready to admit that the
Reform Bill as it existed at present in Ireland, and
the laws relating to the registry in that counry,
were liable to great objections. He believed, too, that
some of those objections were of very considerable im-
portance ; but though the present measure merely
proposed to meet those difficulties, it was, in
point of fact, calculated to limit or destroy the
election qualification in Ireland. He was persuaded
that whatever might be the imperfections of the
system which it was proposed to amend, the Bill of the
Noble Lord would, in many cases, renew them, and that
in other instances it would create others in their stead.
The number of registered electors in Ireland was small
and insignificant, not only as compared with the popu-
lation of that country, but still more small and insigni-
ficant when compared with the number of registered
electors in England. The state of the population of the
two countries, and the number of registered electors was
fully brought before a Select Committee of the House
in 1834. There were comparatively few registered
electors How, in consequence of the great difficulties—
the expense and annoyance, and unfortunately in some
instances the insult to which parties claiming the fran-
chise were subjected. If such were the case under
the present system, how much would the evil be
aggravated by the Bill of the Noble Lord? The
Bill imposed on the unfortunate voter the vexa-
tion of personal attendance at the registry, amidst all
the turmoil of attorneys, counsel, and agents, and all the
heat and strife of party contests. The slight advantages
which the Bill might be supposed to furnish were more
than counterbalaneed by the blow it struck at the great
constitutional right of the franchise.—(Hear, hear).
Then, with respect to perjury, supposing the statements
made by Hon. Members on the other side of the House
to be true, that perjury was more deeply committed with
respect to the registry in Ireland than elsewhere, what
remedy did the present Bill apply to it ? In his opi-
nion the Bill, so far from diminishing the opportunity
to commit perjury, increased it, by the facility

it gave to its perpetration before the Judge
He would shortly call the attention of the House to
some of the provisions of the present Bill. By one of
its clauses the voter ►would be compelled to specify the
(1::te of his lease, the name of the lessee, and the name of
lives mentioned in the lease. Every person at all con-
nceted with Ireland, must know from experience the diffi-
culty there was in proving whether a person be living or
dead. He objected to the Bill, because it was drawn
up much more in favour and to the advantage of the
rich than the poor. If the Bill passed into a law, the
effect wound he to reduce the constituency to one-half.
No one offering himself to address the House, stran-
gers were ordered to withdraw. After being excluded
for five minutes the gallery was again opened, and we
found

Colonel PERCEVAL upon his legs. He was asto-
nished at the conduct pursued by those who had
threatened to make that an adjourned debate. H•
knew the Hon. Member who had just sat down was an
eminent member of the Irish Bar, but he was asto-
nished to find that he objected to the Bill, acknowledg-
ing at the same time that the present law was so defec-
tive. Pe'rsonally he was aware of the evils of the pre-
sent system, for in the county of Sligo many persons
voted against him, who before doing so had committed
perjury, they being tenants depending on leases on the
life of the Duke of Clarence. In 183'1 they came forward
and knowingly swore, that in that year William IV. was
still alive. In that year also he learned that a party
was about to come up and vote against him—he was
aware that their landlord had died, and if they voted,
they must swear that he was alive, and although they
themselves had assisted in his funeral, they came up
even after notice that they would commit perjury, and
voted against him. He believed that there was inter
ference upon the part of landlords, but it was not one-

twentieth so great as that influence exercised by the
Catholic Priesthood. He considered that the opposition
to the Bill was got up for the purpose of saving the
fictitious votes now upon the Registry in Ireland ; it
had worked well for the Government and those who
governed the Government, and so it was to be kept
up. Although many Hon. Members on the other side
of the House had referred to matters which did not
come within the scope of the Bill, he bad not beard
a single argument against its principle. He was cer-
tainly surprised that a Government which had ex-
pressed so much anxiety to amend the registration of
voters in Ireland, should have exhibited so much hos-
tility to the Bill of his Noble Friend. .He denounced
the opposition to the Bill as factious—( Hear, hear)
it was not an opposition to the principle but to the
details of the Bill, and believing it to be calculated to
effect much good, it should receive his hearty support.
The O'CONNOR DON said the Hon. and Gal-

lant Member for Sligo had carefully passed over the
various objections that had been urged to the principle
of the Bill. He had brought forward a grave charge
of perjury against certain voters on the property of Lord
Lorton, but the fact was, that although the tenants
held the land for the life of George the Fourth, they
were told that, being in possession, they were entitled
to vote after the death of the party named in the lease.
Now, the Hon. and Gallant Colonel stated that no ob-

jection had been made to the principle of the Bill; but
be (the O'Connor Don) objected to its principle, inas-
much as it was calculated to diminish and deterioAte

from the elective franchise, by rendering its attainment
much more difficult.—(Hear, hear.) Few were aware
of the vexatious and harrassing nature of the cross-
examination to which a freeholder was subjected in Ire-
land, when he came forward to establish his claim. It
was, in fact, of such a nature, that it deterred many
from registering their freeholds ; and if the tenant were
obliged to go through that ordeal of a cross-examination,
in opposition to his own claim, every year, it would cer-
tainly tend to diminish the number of electors in any
locality. In addition to this, there was the most unjust
and oppressive provision contained in the Bill, that a
party who failed to establish his claim before the Judge,
was liable to a flue of 10/. He most decidedly objected
to such a provision, inasmuch as the spirit of the Re-
form Bill was to give the most liberal construction to
the elective franchise ; and so surely as they inflicted
such a wrong by legislative enactment upon the people
of Ireland, it would beget a wrong on the part of the
people. It was well and truly said by Mr. Grattan in
that House, when addressing Hon. Members on the op-
posite benches, that " the excesses of that country were
the spawn of your own wrong."—(Cheers.) It was
admitted on all hands that Ireland was, at present,
in a state of tranquillity ; he trusted they would
make that tranquillity the rule, and not the exception ;
but the House might rely upon it that if the present
measure was enacted, it would materially tend to dis-
turb the tranquillity, and retard the prosperity of the
country. On these grounds he should certainly vote
against the second reading of the Bill.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. WARBURTON said the main argument of

the Noble Lord (Stanley) in introducing the -Bill was,
that there being a system of annual registration in
England, it would be desirable to extend it to Ireland.
Now be thought it would have been advisable, in the
first instance, to ascertain what the advantages of
annual registration had been in that country (if indeed
there had been any) before they consented to extend it
to lreland.—(Hear, hear.) He could assure the
House that, so far as his experience went, there was
a decided objection by both parties to the system of
annual revision in counties, on account of its incon-
venient expense. That certainly was the case with
respect to English counties, in which the average ex-
panse to each party was about SOW. per annum, al-
though he admitted that in some of the boroughs parties
were of a different opinion. With regard to the provi-
sion for appellate jurisdiction, he certainly would not
be a party to any extension of its powers in the present
case. In Scotland the principle of appeal laid down by
all great writers on the subject was strictly attended
to, and no matter was allowed to be brought before the
Court of Appeal that had not been before the inferior
Court. He thought the constitution of Courts of
Appeal was objectionable, first, because he thought
the Judges should not be employed in political matters,
which would ,subject them to the charge of partiality,
and, secondly, because he did not think it safe to ine
trust the protection of the popular part of the constitu-
tution to the Courts of Common law. His last reason
for opposing the Noble Lord's Bill was, that its acknvv-
'edged effect would be the restriction of the franchise.
At a time when they were universally called upon to
enlarge the franchise, this Bill was seeking to limit.
it. He thought it would be extremely impolitic to re-
strict, more than they had already done, the franchise
in Ireland. If they sought to de so, how could they
expect to have acquiescence in their authority? Would
not the same effects result from it as occurred in Ireland
before the passing of the Reform Bill ? For these rea-
sons—because it had not been proved that the existing
system hat worked well in England, on account of the
nature of the appellate Court, and because the Bill
sought to restrict the franchise ; he should vote against it.
Dr. STOCK said the Hon. Member for Sligo, when
he came to speak of the principle of the Bill, resorted to
the hacknied charge made by Hon. Gentlemen on the
other side, that Hon. Gentlemen who opposed the Bill
carefully avoided stating any objection to its principle.
He (Dr. Stock) objected to the Bill on the principle
that, while ostensibly it proposed to improve the system
of registration, it covertly sought to strike a deadly blow
at the exercise of the franchise. This Bill, contrary to
the faith of the House and the nation, struck down the
entire existing rights of the constituent body of Ireland
as secured by the Reform Act. The moment the Bill
passed it would annihilate the indefeasible security--the
certain right they had obtained by virtue of that Act,
to be received at the poll for eight years after they wer°
once registered, to vote for the candidate they preferred.
He would not impute improper motives to the Noble
Lord, for whose character he had the highest respect'
but he might be surrounded by flatterers and ill coup'
sellors ; and there was a party whose interest it was to
excite and keep up discord in Ireland.—(Cheering.)
The machinery of the Bill ;would seem to have been
framed for the purpose of throwing every possible imPe;
diment
,in the way of obtaining the franchise. Tue,
should not, however, be the object of a law, and was
in conformity with the principles which the Noble°
Lord had advocated in 1832. The Noble Lord be
divided his Bill into various schedules, and rendered as
complicated as possible his attack on the liberties °f
Ireland. Many of those clacees would, he thought' be
attended with the worst results, and would have I', -
other end than that of laying captious snares for refits'
try
yeelanitmerianatg into
s.nsi.earioHuoano.
bajenedtioLoseaarg u
Learned Gentleman'
after .
the Bill, concluded by saying, that, for the reasons me
had assigned, the Bill should meet with his decided op"
position in every stage.—(Hear, hear.)
•
Sir JAS. GRAHAM said that as he felt eweere
.
respect for the House he could not help regrett.tn:s
the scene they were now witnessing. After much
.le,e
of time and an unnecessary adjournment of the debate
the question seemed to hare advanced very littleeihe
(Hear, hear.) That afforded a striking proof o',.a
inconvenience of such proceedings as that which '7l
been adopted 3 esterday.—(Cheers and counter cheesr,74
Last night an adjournment if the debate bad been a
for on the grounds that a great number of gentlemen_Oss
the opposite side of the House were anxious to exmp'_'to
their opinions on the subject before the question cea.a_ed
a division. An hour, however, had scarcely
.1,01"ao
since they had been on the point of dividing, villaire
Hon. Member on the opposite side betrayed any
ton.
ap
paddress t theo b
Gentlemen opposite, as far as he could discover,
ets.P_,ed
—(
long the debate. At all events no such anxiety.
walt"ed
e ail o
greatus e anxietyee Hear,
ht
cheer )p—a
rat hear)—and
therethe
oH_Eort
on the part of her Majesty's Ministers. He Ind as tea
with the confident expectation of hearing what wto
-
decision to which the Cabinet had come with resde
bean
the motion, but in that expectation he ee,l_
disappointed. He had hoard, it was true,
of
? Trader
nion of the Vicc-President of the Board of 44
on the subject, as that Gentleman had last
ability'
addressed the House with his accustomed aL,__'d
But that Honourable and Learned Mcmt•er
irni:b
been so much and so violently mixed up with, up
politics—he had been in the habit of takinsi,,c
. re
such extreme opinions—be having advocated pert,' ex.
sistance to the law, a repeal of the Union, arm 0 the
tension of the Suffrage in the :nost Radical Geese