The Sun.
London, England, 1847-06-29 00:00:00

the Noble Lord, the Member for Lynn, for having, at
an early period of the session, propounded a measure to
extend over four years of legislation, calculated to pro-
mote the interests of the people of Ireland. The last
sentence
of the speech of the Noble Lord, was the one
that gave him the- greatest pain, viz. that this measure
Was only part of a comprehensive scheme of that nature,
!tad he would, if possible, endeavour to convince the people
of this country what course the Government proposed
to adopt for raising the condition of Ireland. The
Noble Lord had alluded to the state of Ireland,
as resulting from centuries of English oppression,
the real oppression and the real injustice
Was the Irish Church ; the legislation upon
that subject had tended to make serfs of the
Catholics, and to turn the Protestants into
oppressors.—(Hear, hear.) The sum proposed to be
expended was not for the purpose of alleviating the
distress of that country, for the Noble Lord had ob-
jected to the measure of the Noble Lord the Member
for
Lynn, on the ground that railways were not calcu-
lated to relieve the distress of the people of Ireland.
The distress of the people of England ought then to be
;nuked at in a case where an advance was proposed to
se made which was admitted not to be required for the
purpose of immediate relief. He stated it advisedly,
that in this country the potato crop would prove a liaise-
Table failure, the spring crops would be considerably
below the average, and the crops of America were not
Calculated to be at all of an abundant nature. Was it,
then, for the Government, with such a prospect before
them, with empty granaries staring in their faces, to
squander what little money they had in hand? Was it
hot their duty to keep the money by them,
to, provide for the necessity which would un-
eoubtedly come upon them? Then the railways pro-
Posed to be assisted were said to be of a most valuable
nature, and likely to yield ample returns; if so, why
then did not the speculators, who had already it ap-
peared half-finished them, complete them? The Bill
Proposed to take a large sum out of the savings of the
People of England to assist speculators in Ireland with
a view of regenerating the people of that country. It
Was a wild and absurd chimera, one of the wildest that
ever entered into the head of the leader of any Govern-
Meat Let the Noble Lard attend to the legitimate
Concerns of the people of Ireland, and not yield to the
rapacity of people on the other side of the channel.
There was something very peculiar about railroads in
/reland, if they were so good why were they not
finished? But really now were these railroads such as
the Yoble Lord, or any other Hon. Member would
Wish to invest his money in? During the mania
Patriotism in railroads rose to a great height,
the panic came, and shares which pointed to a fortune
fell down to the lowest depths of disappointment. What
Was the last resort of these speculating individuals? The
unfortunate Chancellor of the Exchequer. He really
did not see why the House should be called upon to pay
~..11P the calls, or make good the losses which any of her
Majesty's faithful subjects might have sustained through
excessive speculation. He thought that it was now the
time for the House to step in and prevent this first step
being taken in a course so ruinous as that proposed by
the present measure. It was a rule which nothing could
Controvert, that the Governor of a country could not ex-
Pend the public money in any commercial speculation
With half the advantage that the people could do for
themselves. The moment the state became a money
lender, it became a money loser. Unfortunately there
vas a very large Exchequer to draw upon, but de-
Pend upon it the time would come when the
Chancellor of the Exchequer would be called
upon to render a very strict account of his doings, and
one of the severest ordeals through which that Chan-
cellor would have to pass, would be to account to the
mercantile interest of this country how it was that he
dared to lay his hands upon the hard-earned savings of
the people of this country, in order to make amends for
Past centuries of misrule.—(Bear, hear.)
Lord G. BENTINCK thought that the proposed
measure was a step in the ri:;lit direction. The loan to
be advanced by this Bill differed in its terms from those
proposed in the measure which he had the honour to
bring forward. In his Bill, he proposed to lend the
money at 31. 6s. Bd. per cent. interest, whereas, by the
present measure, the loan would be made upon 5 per
Cent ; and the Government having borrowed the money
at ei per cent., would, by lending it out again at 5
per cent., clear 10,0001., in the shape of in-
terest, by the transaction. The proposal which
be intended to submit to the House for
allowing other railway companies to share in the loan,
he was dissuaded from pressing so strongly as he would
have done in consequence of the statement made by the
Noble Lord at the bead of the Government that the pro-
posed Bill was only a portion of a more general and
comprehensive scheme for affording assistance to other
railways in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord
then proceeded to set forth the securities which could
be offered, the advantages to be derived from, and the
claims of the Midland Great Western Railway, the
Waterford and Limerick Railway, and other lines, to
the same assistance as was proposed to be given to the
railways named in the present Bill. He was quite pre-
pared to defend the policy of the Government in this
circumstance ; and he was ready to go before the people
of England and show that this Bill was not one intended
to feed the rapacity of Irish landowners, but one calcu-
lated to improve the condition of the people of :Ireland
'Without the imposition of any burden or tax upon the
People of England. He most sincerely. hoped that the
Government would be prepared to bring in a measure
to assist the railways, to which be had called the atten-
tion of the House, and he hoped the Hon. and
Learned Member for Galway would support the claims
of the Midland Great Western Railway to the assistance
of the Government.—(Hear, bear.) The Hon. and
Learned Member for Bath had spoken of the fear which
there was that the potato crop would prove a miserable
failure. He believed that in that statement the Hon.
and Learned Member would find himself mistaken; for
from every account which he had received from Ireland
the crops were in a most healthy and promising state,
and be had no doubt, trusting to the statement, " that
while earth lasted seed time and harvest should con-
tinue," that the potato and other crops of the country
would prove to be exactly the reverse of the predictions
of the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath. It had been
said that the proposed measure would tend to lock up
the money and derange the financial condition of the
country. It could be proved, however, that the effect
of expending money in railroads was the reverse of lock-
ing up money. The money already expended in railways
• in the United Kingdom, was 96,000,0001., and the gross
revenue from them was, from passengers, 5,000,0001.;
from goods, 3,000,0001.; but taking into account the
charges previously mae, these sums represented a con-
siderably larger amount of revenue than at first sight ap-
peared. The actual saving to the country by the railway
system in the item of " travelling expenses of the Poor-
law Commissioners, was upwards of 5,0001. since their
accession to office; and the time saved in the travelling
of the Commissioners was three years and eight weeks,
out of the twelve years they had been in office. In the
one town of Leicester alone, the completion of the
Leamington Railway, saved to the town 60,000/. a year.
It was nonsense to tell him that capital invested
in railways was money thrown away—money
locked up, and could never be used again. The
sum of 160,000/. had been spent in aid
the
of
Soyer's soup scheme, and he hoped
country would next year contrast the advantages
derived from that service with the advantage to be de-
rived from the advancement of the present 160,0001. to
be advanced in support of Irish railways. Another re-
commendation in favour of the proposal was, that it in-
volved no expense for the support of a staff of officers.
At the present moment the country was paying nearly
100,0001. a year as the salaries of the clerks and officers
engaged in superintending the execution of public works
in Ireland. That expenditure was justified on the ground
that it afforded employment to the people. Now, was
not that a strong argument in favour of
the present
Bill ? Here were they advancing money to be employed
in the execution of public works wanted ; involving
in the expense of maintaining a
the country
staff of officers to see that the works were properly
executed. They were told that railways could not
dind-
crease the supply of food to Ireland. He, for one,
for
e,
not think so. At present the counties penetrated the
Great Southern and Western, they
depended mainly
their fuel upon burnt cow dung. The construction of
the railway would so reduce the price of coal, that the
cow dung would be applied to the improving the land in-
stead of used for the purposes of fuel. He urged the
House, therefore, to pass this Bill. It would lead to the
introduction of British capital into Ireland, and in doing
that, they were taking a decided step towards putting an
end to the existing unfortunate and lamentable state of
the sister kingdom. Mr. Labouchere did not intend to
follow the Noble Lord, or enter into details ; but there
were one or two points in the Noble Lord's speech
which he could not pass over without notice. No one
in that House, he believed, denied the advantages of
railways ; and no doubt they would be productive of
great good in Ireland. But if they were to be encou-
raged in the extravagant manner proposed by the Noble
Lord, they would involve this country in ruin without
attaining the great object they must all have in view.
What was that object ? Why the allevia.ting the dis-
tresses of the people while suffering, from the eff
an unforeseen calamity, and it could be no re
meansmorse u
that
nat
the Government that they had taken the
they thought were best calculated to mitigate the suffer-
ings of the people. At all events, whatever
the the N
oble
oble
Lord might say to the contrary, he belid
of this country did not begrudge the money that
had been expended in the execution of public works for
the purpose of affording the people employment He .
held in his hand the last reports of the Relief Commit-
tee to be presented to-morrow, n from that report he
saw that, at the present moment, no less than 2,600,000
people in Ireland were receiving daily rating. He felt,
therefore, that had the Government not taken the steps
they have done, not only It eland, but the whole of
England and Scotland, would have been
TheNolanLord
had accused the Government with promoting useless
public works in Ireland, for the purpose of exercising
its patronage ; but he, as a Member of the Govern-
ment, felt calld upon to den yap hat statement
ld not in the
most positive terms.—(lleac, e.) Ile wou de-
tain the House further than to express a hope that
the House would pass this measure. Ile would not pre-
tend to say that it would he the means of relieving all
the distress under which Ireland was suffering; but he
would say that it was calculated to go far towards re-
ducing the distress, and it was that conviction which in-
duced him to entreat the House to pass this measure
without further delay. He did not egree with the Hon.
and Learned Member, that this country derived no ad-
vantage from its connexion with Ireland; but, even sup-
posing that were the case, was it right that rich and
affluent England should forsake her fellow brethren in
Ireland when they were suffering from extreme distress
and suffering.—((fear, hear.)
Mr. LEFROY said he should give his most decided
support to the measure of the Government, and he only
regretted that the sum to be advanced for Irish railways
was not larger. Still he must thank th 3 Government
for having introduced the measure, and for the hope they

held out, that should any railways be found worthy of
assistance, the Government would not be indisposed to
render that assistance upon its being shown that they
were likely to turn out profitable and useful works.
Some thing had been said upon the state of the potato
crop this year. He cared not for what had been said
upon that score. Some of the letters he had received
from Ireland held out hopes, while others were no less
desponding, but he must say that at this early period it
was useless to speculate upon the condition of the
crop.—(Hear, hear.) He trusted, most sincerely,
that the great distress Ireland had latterly been
suffering under, would afford a useful lesson to
her people and teach them to depend upon a more
certain food than the potato.—(Hear, hear.) The state
of Ireland had been cruelly exaggerated in that House,
but he saw with satisfaction that it had arrived at the
period when it was determined to take a step in the
right direction. Upon these grounds he gave his support
to the measure with very great pleasure.
Mr. SHEIL—I am not unconcerned, I acknowledge,
in the Great Southern and Western Railway,which runs
in close contiguity with the property with which I am
connected in the county of Tipperary; but I am con-
fident that I shall be believed when I say that I am far
less influenced by any personal consideration than by
the persuasion that great benefit will arise from the
adoption of the measure in which the Government have,
in my mind, wisely and rightfully persevered.—(Hear,
hear.) It is hardly necessary that I should insist on
the advantages which will arise from bringing Water-
ford, and Kilkenny, and Cork, and Dublin, and Belfast,
into contact. My lion. Friend the Member for Bath
said that the advantage of a railroad was indisputable;
that a railroad would be useful in New Zealand, and that
they were dealers in truisms who expatiated on the
utility of railroads. But, he added, that you should be
just to England before you were liberal to Ireland, and
use a phrase so strong as " rapacity," in speaking of
those who were to profit by the loan proposed to be ad-
vanced. Now, Sir, I think that it can be proved that
justice to one country is perfectly compatible with
liberality to the other. In this instance no money is to
be given to Ireland; money is to be lent on the most in-
disputable security—upon lines which are already in
the process of construction, and which have some more
substantial existence than the lucrative enthusiasm of
an imaginative engineer.—(Hear, hear.) But surely this
everlasting distinction between the interests of England
and of Ireland, which are brought into competition by
Englishmen when it meets their purpose, ought to be
deprecated.—(Loud cheers.) As long as we continue
united our interests ought not to be made the subjects of
contrast. Those interests, in this instance at least, are
the same. Let those who tell us that the industry and
the commerce of England ought not to be sacrificed to
the acquisition of a spurious Irish popularity bear in
mind that to the products of English manufacture Ire-
land affords the best, because it is the largest, and near-
est, and safest market; for Porter, in his valuable work,
in chapter 7, headed " Trade between Great Britain and
Ireland," states that the value of exports from England
to Ireland, in 1801, was 3,270,3501.; in 1821, it was
5,338,8981.; and in 1825, it was 7,048,9361. He adds,
that there is no return of exports to Ireland from Eng-
land since 1825. But that there is a return of the num-
ber of ships which cleared outwards from England to
Ireland; and that " if we compare the amount of the
tonnage employed in 1801 with that of 1844, we shall
find that it bears the proportion of 100 to 305, showing
an increase of 205 per cent." It is, I think, no exag-
geration to say that England now annually exports to
Ireland 10,000,000/ of her manufactures. Most as-
suredly, then, England is a great gainer in her transac-
tions with Ireland; and it is manifest that every measure
which contributes to the development of the re-
sources of Ireland—to the fertilization of her soil—to
the reclamation of the morass and of the mountain—to
the social amelioration of the people—to the establish-
ment of a higher standard of comfort—in one word, to
the increased consumption of British produce—must be
essentially ancillary to the prosperity of England.—
(Loud cheers.) I admit that you have eiven
b great
largesses to Ireland; but you were bound to do so. The
calamity which has befallen us is not a provincial one.—
(Hear, hear.) After all, ft war of six months would cost
you far more than a famine of two years, and yet to-
morrow, if there were need, you would rush into en-
counter with your proudest and most formidable anta-
gonist. But if to the cost of glory you would be recon-
ciled by your sense of English honour, in the cost of
mercy you should be taught, by the noblest of your na-
tional characteristics, to acquiesce.—(Loud cheers.) But
although there are gentlemen in this House whose na-
tural benevolence has been overcome by their austere
political economy, who speak as if it was our fault—as
if Irishmen were to blame because the destroying angel
has descended, and blighted a great island in a night,
yet I firmly believe that the great mass of the people
of this country deeply sympathise with the uf-
fe rin gs which we have endured ; the minds of
men of all parties in this House have met in a pure con-
fluence in which the sentiment of the people of England is
faithfully reflected; and although in Ireland some of the
measures adopted by the Government have been the
subject of stricture, yet no doubt is entertained that the
great body of Englishmen is actuated by a feeling of
munificent commiseration in our regard. I am confi-
dent that Irish thankfulness will be commensurate with
English generosity, and if it shall be so, if the events
which have befallen shall be conducive to the creation
of a kind international sentiment, without reference to
political considerations, I for one shall think that from
a great calamity, good, great and lasting, may, with the
blessing of Providence, be at last deduced. Sir, this is
not only to be considered merely in a fiscal view ; I
shall rejoice if the Parliament, which is about to termi-
nate its existence, shall make a testamentary manifes-
tation of good-will to the Irish people, indicative of the
policy which ought to be pursued, and by which the
Noble Lord who has had the courage to undertake the
government of Ireland may be assisted and sus-
tained. That able and sagacious statesman will have
great difficulties to contend with, which will be en-
hanced by the loss which Ireland has sustained by the
death of that celebrated man, to whom the Noble Lord
opposite (Lord George Bentinck) has alluded, who has
conferred upon his country incalculable obligations,
and to whom, when the prejudices and the passions,
the antipathies and predilections of the hour, shall
have passed away, in the impartial adjudication of
those by whom he shall be succeeded, the attributes of
greatness, political and intellectual, will be hereafter be-
yond doubt assigned.—(Hear, hear.) Whatever opinion
may be entertained of his title to the veneration of his
country, in an assembly composed like that which I am
now addressing, it must be admitted, by those who were
in the sternest antagonism to him while he lived, that
that renowned Irishman effected his achievements by a
great mental instrumentality; and I trust that the time
will never arrive when English statesmen will have
cause to lament that the voice is heard no more by
which millions were at once excited and controlled, and
that the accents on which a nation hung in rapture and
a senate with admiration are hushed in the grave for
ever. I would that he had been spared to us; I would
that he had lived to behold the seat of that ancient and
perpetual faith in which he was an humble believer, and of
which he was the proud and chivalrous champion—that
he had lived to behold the eternal city, that he had knelt
at the altars of that temple, the noblest that was ever
raised by the hands of man, and worthy of the pur-
poses, the high and holy ones, to which it is devoted—and
that through the marble halls of the Vatican the venera-
ble man, though with a feeble and tottering step, bad
found his way, amidst the array of sacerdotal pomps,
and received the sanctifying salutation of the great pon-
tifical reformer who has ascended the chair of St. Peter
amidst the acclamations of the world ; and I would that
after he had performed that pilgrimage he had returned
to the country of his birth, and which he set free, in
order that
principles
hemight
uponrenew thh
the
whichinjunctionacted
whose never to in-
fringe the
vi ooulraattni
toghna thet
he
never was legitimately accused. lam conscious
have departed from the more immediate question before
the House, but I who now have so seldom a justification
for interfering in your discussions, shall be pardoned if I
have availed myself of this the first occasion which has
presented itself to me, to offer a mournful but unavailing
tribute of commemoration to the memory of the man
with whom I was for so many years politically associated,
and whose departure from the great scene in which he
performed a part which attracted the attention of man-
kind, I regard as a disaster, which it will require great
wisdom and fortitude, and the spirit of conciliation by
which the policy on which this measure is founded, to
countervail.—(Cheers.)
Mr. W. R. COLLETT supported the Bill. He said
that the Government would clear 50,000/ by the loan.
At first the Government threw cold water on the lend-
ing of money to Irish railways, but now they found that
the Irish railways would afford permanent employment
to the poor, they came forward with this Bill. He
thanked them for it. He repeated what he said some-
time ago—that the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath
(Mr. Roebuck) had shown much ignorance on the sub-
ject of Ireland. Why he should wish to become trus-
tee of his Irish estate he was at a loss to know.—
(Hear, hear.) He had taunted Irish Members with
wishing to promote this Bill for the sole
purposecollCollett)
hof e advancing dnvo shares'ng their
in a
noyw
ri
insthe r ests
railways; bu but
shaev
e( Ntlhre.
an
South Western, but he held only a sufficient number of
shares in that company to qualify him to act as one of
its directors. He should continue to promote the wel-
fare of his suffering fellow-creatures, notwithstanding
the invectives and sarcasms of the lion. Member.
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL also supported the Bill. He
said the political-economical arguments o
Wf the Heswor thon. Ba)
-
ronet the member for Southwark (Sir . Mol
sounded very well as mere abstract pieces of reasoning,
but they came a day too late; they should have been de-
livered at the commencement of the session. The Hon.
and Learned Gentleman the Member for Bath through-
out his speech had said nothing which could wound the
most sensitive; and this was rather remarkable from one
so prone to sarcasm as the Hon. and Learned Member.
But there was this novelty in his speech—he be-
came a prophet, as he said that not only
crops would be blighted. It
would the potato crop fail, but that the corn
was impossible, how-
ever, to tell what would happen. He dragged the Irish
Church into the debate, but it appeared to him (Mr. M.
J. O'Connell) that the Hon. and Learned Member
would be found wanting when any proposition was
before the House for altering the constitution of those
churches. But these matters were not strictly before
the House.—(Hear, hear.) The great object which all
the friends of Ireland should unite to obtain was employ-
ment for the people irrespective of the land, which from
its being the sole means of employment hitherto
afforded to the people, had led to much of the misery
under which that unhappy country laboured, and as a
great step in that direction, he should support this Bill.
Mr. M. GORE said as he had supported the measure
brought forward by the Noble Lord the Member for
Lynn, he should support this Bill; but if it had extended
to other lines, it would have been still more deserving of
his support,--(Rehr, hear.) In support of this view he

read a statement from a work by Sir R. Kane, showing
how the internal resources of Ireland had been neglected,
and what great national benefits would accrue from their
being opened up by means of railway communication; he
also referred to the last report of the Irish Railway Com-
missioners, which was to the same effect. All other
statements and reports he had seen, strongly urged the
extension of railways in Ireland as a great means of im-
proving the whole country. He said there was nothing in
the Irish character to lead one to believe that if facilities
were afforded them, they would not become as industri-
ous and as enterprising as their fellow-subj ects in England.
The port of Galway was one of the most important
ports in Ireland, and presented an eligible situation for
a harbour of refuge and a packet station—(Cries of
"Divide.") The Hon. Gentleman cited, amidst loud
calls for a division, the opinions of the Duke of Welling-
ton, Sir John Burgoyne, and Professor Ford, in favour
of the construction of a harbour of refuge on the western
coast of Ireland. The railway communication between
Dublin and Galway would, he said, render that port one
of the most eligible for this purpose on the western coast
of Ireland.
Mr. TRELAWNY considered that the Bill would
create a dangerous precedent, as in any season of pres-
sure they would be called upon to take a similar course,
and this country would be impoverished for the purpose
of feeding the famishing poor of Ireland. Ireland should
support her own poor, and this she might be enabled to
do by removing the disabilities under which landed pro-
perty laboured. They should emancipate promising
land, and support the strong arm of the law, in order
that capital might circulate and labour find a market.
At present, in many places in Ireland, a " reign of
Terror" existed, as mobs of desperate men and women
had, by force and menace, regulated the price of bread,
and rendered, in consequence, life and property pre-
carious.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM had observed the impatience
of the House, and should not, therefore, read any docu-
ments.—(Hear, hear.) He had not the pleasure of
hearing the whole of the speech of the Hon. Member
for Dungarvon (Mr. Sheil) ; but it appeared that
he made two statements, one of which he considered
apposite, and the other inapposite. He (Sir James
Graham) had had the misfortune to differ with
the late Mr. O'Connell; but it appeared to him
that it would not have been altogether just in
a Roman Catholic Member of that House, who had
for so many years taken an active part in the
struggle for the liberties of his fellow citizens of the
same religion in common with Mr. O'Connell, if he had
allowed this, the natural opportunity of paying a passing
tribute of gratitude to that distinguished person, to pass
unheeded; and, though they might differ as to certain
portions of his public conduct, every Member of that
House who had had an opportunity of sitting with him
in that or in any former Parliament could not fail to
admit that it was not unseemly that some passing tri-
bute should be paid to the talents of Mr. O'Connell by
some one, but no one more appropriately or eloquently
than by the Hon. Member.(Cheers.) The inapposite
portion of the Hon. Gentleman's address was this—that
he hoped before the session terminated, that this coun-
try would do something to relieve the distress of Ireland.
Already they had voted 8,000,0001. for that purpose,
and this, he believed, was the first measure that had
met with any share of opposition. He was at a loss to
know the principle on which this Bill was supported, as
the Hon. Gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
had opposed a similar, nearly similar one, brought for-
ward by the Hon. Member for Lynn. He supposed,
however, it was brought forward for the purpose of
meeting the present condition of Ireland. 260,0001.
derived from the Exchequer fund was, it appeared, ap-
plicable for the extension of public works, and out of
that sum he supposed the grants would be made. If he
was right in saying that every shilling should be ad-
vanced for the purpose of increasing the amount of food
in the country, then he would just say in passing that
the Government in withdrawing the Bill for the cultiva-
tion of waste land, appeared to have themselves been of
a different opinion. He agreed with the Hon. and
Learned Member for Bath, that all the arguments which
were directed against the proposition of the Noble Lord
the Member for Lynn, were equally applicable to this
Bill, and the Noble Lord, in his speech of that evening,
had clearly shown that the Bill should not be
confined to three railways in Ireland, because, if
the principle holds good in one case, it ought
to do so in all, and it was proved in this
House that the case of these three lines was peculiar to
the whole of Ireland. He should, before he sat down; wish
to notice one or two other points brought under the notice
of the House by this Bill. There were inconsistencies on
this subject. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had
lately told the House that green crops were flourishing,
that the disease in the potato had not re-appeared, that
the deep sea fishing was in a state of improvement, and
that, generally speaking, the country was in a better
state than it had been before; then why, he would ask,
did they urge on this measure, when their financial affairs
were in:such a state of embarrassment, and when, in the
opinion of all right-thinking men, the resources of the
country ought to be husbanded? This measure was, he
thought, fraught with all the dangers which the Govern-
meat had themselves pointed out on former occasions,
and thinking, therefore, that this measure was opposed
to all sound principles of Government, he should feel it
his bounden duty to vote against the second reading of
the Bill.
Tho CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did
not anticipate that the Bill at present before the House
would have met with the opposition which Hon. Mem-
bers gave it, nor did he imagine that the objection would
have been raised that this was not the best time for the
introduction of the Bill. Many objections, it was true,
had been urged against the measures that had been
adopted by the Government ; bet these measures, he
conceived, were the very best which could be adopted
under the circumstances. He would not retrace the
weary course of the discussions in the House on this
question, but he thought at least that no objection
should he urged against a measure like the present,
which proposed only to lend money on undoubted secu-
rity, and which would be altogether expended in
remunerative labour. However much they might differ
as to the measures best fitted to relieve the distresses of
that country, in this at least they were all agreed that it
was essentially necessary that the population should have
profitable labour provided for them. Did the Ministry
content itself with railway Bills only? Were there no
fishery Bills introduced ? no Bills for the cultivation of
agricultural produce ? no Bills for the encouragement of
manufactures and the extension of trade ? The Noble
Lord and the Right Hon. Baronet charged the Govern-
ment with having exhibited a favouritism in the advances
of these moneys, and they instanced the Waterford and
Limerick as one of the railways which should feel ag-
grieved by this state of things. But the reason why the
Governmentand Western
was,adv hceeetahuessee sumsthey toth
otuhe
;h?rtehaet
Eastern
effect of the completion of the line would be to increase
the national wealth and afford employment to the starving
population.
Mr. DISRAELI said that this question had occupied
the attention of the House at the beginning of the ses-
sion, and it appeared to be likely to occupy the attention
of the Legislature to its close. But he could not un-
derstand how Hon. Members, who were so eloquent
against the proposition of his Noble Friend in the month
of February, who had represented in such brilliant colours
the injurious tendency of the principle of the Govern-
ment relief, should now come forward and vote for this
measure. The Right Hon. Baronet had placed this ques-
tion in its proper light, and had maintained his consis-
tency even to that hour upon the subject. Hon. Members
for Ireland said, " Why do you not legislate for Ireland
as you do for England," and the Noble Lord at the head
of the Government for the first time that evening,
admitted that the fact was so. He (Mr. Disraeli) denied
it. He maintained that the English people did that for
Ireland, which the Irish people did not for themselves.
Here was a statesmanlike measure brought forward by
his Hon. Friend in February last, a measure which was
a practical one, and opposed to mere abstract notions of
political economy—here was a measure, which was de•
feated by a majority brought to the vote by her Ma-
jesty's Government—here was a measure which, at the
beginning of the session, was defeated by the Ministry,
who now brought forward at the fag end of it at the ter-
mination of the session, and when they were about to
appear before their constituents, as the panacea for the
miseries of Ireland. He and the party with which he
was connected were contented with the result at which
they had arrived, and they were prepared to vote with the
Government, but how were the Hon. Gentleman oppo-
site the Member for Southwark, and the Gentlemen who
agreed with him in opinion to answer to their consti-
tuents for their votes on this occasion ? These consti-
tuents would not be satisfied with dry and musty
apothegms of political economy; they would tell them
that Ireland was now a portion of the common country,
united ininterests and friendship, and they would also tell
theoi that the time was gone by for mere political enun-
mations taking the place of action.
Mr. HUME acknowledged that the Hon. Member who
had just sat down had made out a triumphant case against
the Ministry and those who with them had voted against
the Noble Lord the Member for Lynn's motion in Fe-
bruary, but who were prepared to vote for it on that occa-
sion. He was anxious. however, to state to the House and
the country the reason why he opposed this measure. He
considered it to be a violation of principle. The Right
Hon. Gentleman opposite had challenged the House to
go to the country upon the question. Well, he for one,
was prepared to do so. His principles were based upon
equity andjustice, and he could see no reason why
money should be granted to one railway in preference to
another. The granting of this money was opposed
to every principle to which the public purse
ought to be applied. It was against all principle
and reason, and if this Bill were carried, Go-
vernment could not, refuse to grant money to
English and Scotch railways. Government were getting
into a maze, out of which they would find a difficulty to ex-
tricate themselves, and he considered this a most unprin-
cipled and unconstitutional vote; he should give it his
decided opposition.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. CARDWELL said, before they went to a division
on the question, the House ought to know whether this
vote was an exceptional case, arising out of the evils and
miseries of Ireland, or the commencement of a new policy
under which the country was in future to be governed.
It would seem, from one part of the Noble Lord's speech
(the First Lord of the Treasury) that it was, but after the
address of the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Shrews-
bury, it became the more necessary that they should have
the question more definitely explained to them. With
regard to the vote itself, why could not the Dublin and
Cashel Company make their own line. The lines which
were intended to connect the metropolis with the towns
of Edinburgh, Glasgow, and Holyhead were at as great
a discount as the Dublin and Cashel Railway, but they
did not ask the assistance of Government, and why
should the Dublin and Cashel Railway Company have
it? When the London and Leeds line was being made
there was great and pressing distress in this
country—there was great difficulty in finding
employment for labour—the money market was
in a most depressed state, and yet the proprietors
of the London and Leeds line did not come to the Go*

vernment asking for assistance. They exerted them-
selves to the utmost degree, and by dint of great energy
and with the aid of their own money, they succeeded in
constructing the line ; and if the lines in question were
left unaided and unassisted by Government, the ener-
gies and exertions of private enterprise would in the
course of time construct them. He contended, then,
that independently of its being opposed to all sound
principles, there was no necessity for the vote.—
(Hear, hoar.) They were told the rails and lo-
comotive powers had already been purchased for
the railway, and the money to be voted would be
expended in the continuation of earthworks. Now that
was directly opposed to all past experience, and if it
were true, it was certainly the first case where the rails
and locomotives had been purchased before the perma-
nent way was constructed. It was proposed to take this
grant from a balance in the Exchequer; but how had
that balance been obtained? Why, through the medium
of a loan.—(Hear, hear.) He thought that was another
strong objection against this measure, and he
could not help thinking, that if they carried it, they
would find in October next that there would be a
good deal more coin to be paid than they
now anticipated. It was, therefore, highly, desirable
that Government should give them some further expla-
nation upon the subject. Was this rate intended to be
the commencement of a new system for improving the
condition of the people of Ireland, without the aid of any
exertions on the part of the people themselves? Was
Ireland to be told that, although the people of England
and the people of Scotland had got rid of their difficulties
solely by their own energy and industry, she need not
exert herself in the least, for the Government were pre-
pared
to come boldly forward to her rescue at the ex-
pense of the other two members of the kingdom? It was
a dangerous policy, and though he was not disposed to
become the slave of any pedantic political principles of
economy, as the Hon. Member for Shrewsbury had de-
scribed it, he should, nevertheless, vote in opposition to
the Bill.—(Hear, hear.)
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the second reading .................. 175
Against it ................................. 62
Majority
MASTERS IN CHANCERY BILL.
The House then resolved itself into. Committee on the
Masters in Chancery Bill.
The Chairman reported progress,
and the House
resumed.

SUPPLY.
In answer to questions from Colonel Sibthorp, Mr.
Osborne, and Lord G. Bentinck,
Lord J. RUSSELL said that if the House would get
through the Bills before it, they would go into supply
on the same day. Wednesday, after some discussion,
was fixed upon.
DRAINAGE OF LANDS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
POLLING AT ELECTIONS (IRELAND) BILL.
Lord J. RUSSELL moved that this Bill be read a
second time.
Mr. FREWEN suggested that the provision should
extend to counties as well as boroughs.
After a few words from Mr. LABOUCHERE, the Bill
was read a second time.
TURNPIKE ROADS (SOUTH WALES) BILL.
The House then went into Committee on this Bill, and
passed its several clauses.
The House again resumed.
BANKRUPTCY BILL.
This Bill was read a second time after a short discus-
sion, in which Sir James Graham, Sir George Grey, and
the Attorney-General took part.
NAVAL MUTINY BILL.