The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-04 00:00:00

THE SUM LONDON, THURSDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 4, 1847.

poor bore their woes and refrained from turbulence; and be-
fore he sat down he must express his satisfaction with the
Government of the country for the exertions they made to
meet the emergency.
The resolution was then put to the meeting, and carried
unanimously.
Mr. FOSTER, son of Mr. Foster, of Norwich (both of whom
lately travelled through Ireland), then addressed the meeting.
He visited Westport, in the county of Mayo, and the state of
the people could not be realised by the imagination--
personal inspection would be necessary to convince one of the
reality. The town appeared to be one large pauper hiuse,
crowded like a fair. He never saw such an assemblage of
wretched starved creatures. The men were worn down to
the skin and bone—were living skeletons—and the women
were pale and livid, with the dark mark of famine round
their eyes.—(Sensation.) On the public works there was not
more than one out of every 12 of the destitute employed. In
Connemara also the distress was equally great,
and in one village the scarcity was so great that
he could not get a single pound of meal in the whole place,
and there was not a store within a distance of from 20 to 30
miles.—(Sensation.) Four cases of death had occurred there
within the two days previously, and he himself was obliged
to supply some of the poor creatures from the hotel at which
he was residing. The emphatic way in which the poor
people of Ireland spoke of the calamity was, that " the
famine is upon us." He would conclude by urging on the
ladies to provide clothing for the naked creatures whose suffer-
ings from famine were greatly aggravated by the present in-
clement season. He would propose the following resolution :
" That whereas her Majesty has called upon the ministers of
the Established Church to make collections in their respec-
tive parishes, so also Dissenting ministers of all denomina-
tions be requested (if they have not already done so) to use
their legitimate power of appeal to their congregations upon
the subject as early as possible, or simultaneously with the
day fixed for the Queen's Letter to be read, 21st February.
Thus a general voluntary effort will be made by the whole
nation in mitigation of the awful calamity. And further,
that such ministers be requested to report to the United
Relief Association (at 40, Leicester-square) the fact of their
having made such collection, as well as those that purpose so
appealing to their congregations, order that the same i
being announced in the public papers, may stimulate other
ministers and congregations to adopt the same course."
The Rev. A. KING seconded the resolution, and detailed
several instances of the horrifying effects of the famine. In
one instance a family had nothing to subsist on but the car-
case of a dead horse, and the poor creatures exclaimed,
" What, under God, would become of them when the horse
flesh should be finished ?—(Sensation.) In several cases the
dead were not interred, owing to the debility of the survivors.
In one district it was computed that one-fifth of the popula-
tion would be carried on: And an instance had occurred
there where the limbs of dead bodies were obtruding above
ground, the poor creatures not having strength sufficient to
cover them with clay.—(Sensation.)
The Rev. THOMAS JAMES supported the resolution,:which
was then put to the meeting, and carried unanimously.
The following donations were then announced :—Luke J.
Hansard. Esq., 150 guineas; C. Cochrane, Esq.. 60 guineas;
S. Gurney, E5q.,.50/.; Sir E. Buxton, 20/.; Rev. A. Mangin,
5 guineas; with several others of a smaller amount.
On the motion of CKARLES COCHRANE, Esq., seconded by
Rev. S. TOWNSIIEND, (Cork), and supported by the Rev. 0.
CLARKE, the following resolution was unanimously carried
—" That a plain and forcible statement of the extreme
wretchedness and destitution be drawn up, embodying the
substance of the account given by the 'deputations that have
addressed this meeting, with other needful information, and
that the same be forwarded to the clergy and to the minis-
ters of all denominations, in order to impress them with the
urgency of the case, and that the same be forwarded also to
all public companies, joint-stock societies, literary instant ions,
charitable societies, lecturers, and benevolent persons who
may have it in their power to promote the public collection.
And that, notwithstanding the benevolent disposition
evinced by the Government of this country, and the gene-
rosity exhibited by her Majesty, and several branches of
the Royal Family, by the Society of Friends, and many
benevolent individuals, the exigence of the present distress
is so great, and the hope of its early mitigation so faint, that
there appears a necessity for the committee (appointed at the
late:conference of clergymen and ministers on the 13th ult.)
continuing their remedial exertions as the United Relief
Association ; and that it is the sense of this meeting that
the administration of the funds collected by the public
appeal may be confided (if the contributors shall so approve)
to the said committee, and their treasurer, as trustees, who,
while they admit the sadly pre-eminent claim of Ireland and
parts of Scotland upon the generous charity of the British
public, would appropriate a portion also for the destitute in
England, and who resolve that their distribution shall in all
cases be conducted on unsectarian principles."
The meeting then separated.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

(THIS EVENING.)

HOUSE OF LORDS.

The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool-
sack shortly after Five o'clock.
POOR REMOVAL ACT.

The Duke of RICHMOND presented petitions from
several places in Sussex against the Poor Removal Act,
the inhabitants of which believed that it was a hardship
to the poor, and calculated to increase the poor-rates.
Lord BEAUMONT thought that an observationought
to be made on these petitions. It was a mistake to sup-
pose that this Act was a hardship on the poor; for it
only provided for the removal of the poor. It
might, indeed, increase the poor-rates, but that
was an evil which would work its own remedy; for
if the landlords pulled down cottages, they would
be obliged to build them up again when they
wanted labourers, as no man could travel
more than a certain distance to his work. The Bill
might have been clumsily drawn, but its real effect was
to prevent the removal of the poor without their own
consent.

The Duke -of RICHMOND quite agreed with his
Noble Friend in the latter part of his observations, viz.,
that this Act was clumsily drawn, for he believed that
no two lawyers in England agreed in the con-
struction of the Act. But with respect to the
hardship which it occasioned to the poor he
totally differed, for he believed that the Act had been
productive of the greatest hardship to the labouring
poor, especially to those aged couples who had borne a
good character through lite; for it had in those cases
tended to reduce that out-door relief to which they were
from their circumstances entitled. And if the Govern•
ment would grant him a commission he would engage
to prove that in innumerable instances the Act had in that
way particularly been productive of the greatest hardships.
The great body of the people of the country were at
present against union settlements, and he participated
in that feeling. He would much regret the passing of
the measure, as great evils would arise out of it.
Nothing was so bad to the poor as continually changing
the character of the poor-laws. He had no
objection to the amendment of the harsh
parts of the poor-law, but he did not think the proposed
new law of settlement of such a character.

Lord BEAUMONT agreed with the Noble Duke
that the proposed law- of settlement would operate un-
satisfactorily.
Lord BROUGHAM also agreed with the Noble Dnke,
that whatever was found in the law to be unsatisfactory
should be amended. He would not do so from a desire
to propitiate clamour, or because it was unpopular, for a
clamour might be got up against anythng, but because
Experience proved that the alteration was merited.
While on this subject, he begged leave to correct
an error into which he had been led by an esteemed cor-
respondent, whom he had always hitherto found correct.
Having made the error the other evening in a statement
he (Lord Brougham) had made respecting pauperism in
Liverpool, he now took the earliest opportunity of
correcting it. He had stated that those who es-
tablished the soup kitchens in that town
had stopped the supplies on Sunday to the poor. Jt
appears that this was not correct; no such distinction, it
appears, was made. He was exceedingly loath to say
anything of those who were engaged in the pious
work of charity, though he had received another
communication from Glasgow, about which there could
be no mistake. The letter contained a soup
kitchen ticket, on which was printed that the bearer
might be supplied on any day but Sunday. The same
spirit was shown on a recent occasion, when a most
extecsive fire occurred in Glasgow. The fire took
place on a Sunday, and the Stamp-office, which adjoined,
was in danger of being destroyed, yet no assistance
could he not from Edinburgh, because the rail-
way was shut tip en that day, the proprietor of the
building also lived in Edinburgh, and though his
presence was imperatively required in Glasgow,
it was impossible for him to get through
The mail train departed with the mail bags, for the con-
veyance
of which the railway company received so much
a year, but the directors of that railway most positively
refused to allow a messenger to go with the train to
summon the owner of tho burning premises to come to
Glasgow. And it was because he saw charity
thus tainted with fanaticism (for not to attend to
works of charity, necessity, and mercy, was fa-
natacism in the highest degree) that he was
induced to speak to their Lordships on the subject.
The Noble Duke (the Duke of Wellington) might just
as well be blamed for having fought his glorious battle
of Waterloo, June the 18th, which was Sunday. Per-
haps, however, the Noble Duke was not aware of the
fact of its being Sunday, or he would, no doubt, have
deferred giving the French battle until another day.—
(Laughter.) With respect to the immense influx of
Irish paupers into Liverpool, he held in his hand a
statement which showed that 3,841 persons came into that
port in two days. The number of persons who landed
in Liverpool from
Cork, was
Sligo
Drogheda
Newry
Dublin
and these in two days. It was a moat serious affair, and
imposed great hardship upon the people of Liverpool.
He would suggest to the Government the propriety and
necessity of taking into consideration the state of the
English as well as the Irish poor. He knew it had
been said by some persons, " that the Irish people had
no need to despair, so long as there was a single guinea
left in the English Treasury." He totally dissented
from such a proposition. It had also been suggested
that the Government should buy corn and sell it at a
cheap rate. That would be the worst possible thing
that could be done. In a time of scarcity, the greatest
blessing that could happen, was for the prices of
grain to rise considerably, because it always pro-
duced a tendency to frugality and economy.
The result of cheapness in a time of dearth, was to con-
vert dearth into scarcity, and scarcity into the most
aggravated forms of famine. It gave him great pain to
renew these observations, but he confessed he did so
because they were not attended to. It was far from
a pleasant task to utter harsh truths, but unless he did
so he should not discharge his duty to the public.
He deprecated the mania that was gaining ground
that the revenue must yield relief to the Irish poor and
to Irish landlords. If such a system was persisted in,
this year would be one of comparative prosperity com-
pared to its successors.

BORDEAUX, TOULOUSE, AND
CETTE RAILWAY.-(THIS DAY

An adjourned meetiog of this company was held this day
at the London Tavern, to receive the report of a committee
appointed at a former meeting to inquire as to the liability of
the shareholders to pay two shillings per share, in order to
enable the directors to obtain their constituted shares. Mr.
David Salomons in the chair.

The repot► of the committee was read, which stated that
the shareholders were neither in law or equity liable to
pay the demand made upon them.
The report was then adopted ; and it was resolved that
the shareholders should pay one shilling a share to obtain
the constituted shares, and to promote amity among the
shareholder
Mr. FIELD then submitted a resolution that the directors
be empowered to consider the expediency of abandoning or
continuing the undertaking, and to report accordingly to the
shareholders, which was agreed to unanimously.
The meeting then separated.

i':'QUEEN'S BENCH.-(THIS DAY.)

TRESPASS.--•••WIIITE V. STUAGING AND OTHERS.

This was an action in forma pauperis, to recover com-
pensation in damages from Mr. Sturging, a publican,
carrying on business at the Old Swan, in the Mile-
end-road, and a police-constable, named Brown, for
a tresspas, committed under the following circumstances :
The plaintiff, White, was formerly an officer, in the employ-
ment of the Sheriff of Essex, but at the time in question
lie was in custody on a charge (from which he was after-
wards liberated, on giving proofs of his innocence),
of having been concerned in carrying on an illicit still. His
wife, however, and several children occupied a room in a
house, of which the landlord's name was Brown, at 5, Friendly
place, White Horse-lane, Mile-end. A Mr. Bird, the pro-
prietor of the house, had given Brown notice to quit, but no
intimation of the fact had been given to Mrs. White. On
the sth of August, Mr. Bird, accompanied by others, forcibly
entered the house, and turned the inmates and their
furniture into the street. Mr. White refused to leave, Bird
went into the yard and picked up an old pewter pot, which
bore the name of the landlady, who had kept the " Old
Swan." He took it over to Sturging, who shortly
after came over, and demanded an explanation of the
war in which the pot came upon the premises. Mrs. White
explained that when she had lived at the next house she and
other lodgers used it in common for obtaining water from the
but, and that it bad been brought to that house and
similarly used. He immediately gave her into the
custody of Brown on the charge of stealing the
pot, who took her into the street, and her five
children immediately followed her. After being taken
some distance, and finding that the crowd, who had gathered
round the woman and her children, considered her unfairly
and unkindly dealt with, he offered to liberate her
if she would pay the value of the pot, namely
2s. She, however, had no money, as she and her family were
in the greatest indigence ; but the crowd collected is. 7d.,
which was Banded to him, and the woman was set free. The
Learned Counsel (Mr. Wilkins) characterised the whole pro-
ceeding as a ruse, for the purpose of getting the woman out of
the house, as the house was locked up, and refused re-
admittance, so that in fact she was turned into the street
with her children.

Messengers from the Commons brought up severe'
Bills and returns.

These facts having been proved in evidence,
Mr. Sergeant Sinn, for the defendants, contended that the
woman:was not:given into custody, and that she went into the
street with her children for the purpose of going to the
station-house of her own free
_will, in order to explain the
matter.

The jury, after some deliberation, found a verdict for the
plaintiff for 101.

PETITIONS ON PRIVATE BILLS.
HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(THIS DAY.)
(Room 22, before Mr. Examiner SMITH and Mr. Assistant-
Examiner FREER.)
UNOPPOSED LIST.
In the following unopposed cases the customary formal
proofs were completed, and the standing orders complied
with :
Caledonian Railway.
Glasgow, Garnkirk, and Coatbridge Railway (with a Branch
to Glasgow) and Station.
OPPOSED LIST.
MIDLAND RAILWAY (SHEFFIELD, BARNSLEY,
DONCASTER AND GOOLE LINE.
This adjourned opposed case was then gone into, and at
the close of the inquiry, it was found that the standing orders
had not been complied with in one or two instances.
In the following cases the formal proofs were taken, to
enable the witnesses to return to their various avocations in
the country ; the opposition being postponed till to-morrow
Wishaw and Coltness Railway (branches to Auchenheath,
Mineralfield, and Canderside), Caledonian (Edinburgh sta-
tion, &c.), Caledonian (branches from the Clydesdale Junc-
tion, &c.), Caledonian (extension of the Motherwell branch
of Clydesdale Junction, he.), Caledonian (branches to Ca-
noble, Langholme, &c.), Caledonian (branch across Clyde
and Glasgow station), Caledonian (lease of part of Glasgow
Dumfries and Carlisle Railway).
The Examiner rose shortly after Four o'clock.
(Room 23.)
Before Mr. Examiner MAY.
There were no unopposed cases in Mr. Examiner MAY'S
list to-day
CORNWALL AND DEVON CENTRAL.
This adjourned opposed case was resumed. In the course
of the day several allegations were sustained. They had re-
ference chiefly to defects in the levels, plans, and sections.
and inaccuracies in the books of reference.
The result of the inquiry is looked forward to with a great
deal of interest, the contest being ostensibly between the
South-Western and the Great Western Companies.
The case was further adjourned.
GREAT NORTHERN RAILWAY, ISLE OF AXHOLME
EXTENION.
The formal proofs were taken in this opposed case.
The Examiner then adjourned till to-morrow at ten o'clock.

TATTERSALL'S-THIS EVENING.
O'CLOCK.

CHESTER CUP.
20 to 1 agst Mendicant
25 to 1 agst The Lamb
28 to 1 agst Camera Obscura
28 to 1 agst Bedlam
35 to 1 agst Punch
35 to 1 agst Erin-go•bragh
50 to 1 agst Pink Bonnet
66 to 1 apt Golden Bee'

NEWMARKET HANDICAP.
15 to 1 agst Footstool
25 to 1 agst Meeanee

DERBY.
71 to 1 agst Van Tromp
14 to 1 agst Planet
20 to 1 agst Glentilt
35 to 1 agst Conyngham
50 to 1 agst Bedlam

Saturday
SHEET. STEALING EXTRAORDINARY.—
....0 n
last, three privates of the 76th Regiment, natives of England,
stationed at Greenlaw Barracks, were apprehended by Con-
stable Merrylees, of the county police, and conveyed to Edin-
burgh, on a charge of stealing a sheep from a field in the
neighbourhood, a few nights previous. They were on guard
at the time, and it appears that their object was to enjoy a
feast of Scotch mutton ; for after skinning the sheep they
dressed part of it, and had recently been regaling them-
selves on a choice bit when they were apprehended. They
ave since been examined, and committed for trial.— Glasgow

selves to succour those whom he would call their fellow industry of the country—if the measure was so bad that
countrymen, and among the most active was that amia- J it was not entitledieven to a hearing in that House—if
ble, that excellent body, the Society of Friends, who, ' it deserved to be condemned there, he would admit, that
although only a small community, had contributed for all that was bad in its principles he alone was re-
the munificent sum of 30,000/. They kept their sponsible. It was his privilege as leader of the party
charities in their own hands, and for a society of their with which he was connected, to claim for himself
extent this was truly munificent ; and he trusted that the right to bear the exclusive blame and the whole re-
this efficient aid would be continued until the distress spousibility of it. It was not his intention to make any
had passed by. What he meant to say was that the very leggthened preface, or to enter into a general dis-
Government could not prevent the famine; and he never cussion as regarded the state and condition of Ireland ;
desired to assert that the distress suffered by the poor in suffice Risr him that there was a great class at that
this country was at all equal to that which was to be moment in that country, amounting to 500,000 able-
met with in Ireland. bodied persons, existing on the funds of the state ;
REDUCTION OF THE DUTY ON RUM. there were 500,000 able-bodied persons, cons-
The Duke of RICHMOND presented a petition from mended by a staff of 11,587 persons and
the landed proprietors, farmers, and other persons inte- employed upon works which had been variously de-
rested in the agriculture of the county of Caermarthen, scribed as works worse than useless; by the yeomanry
against the proposed reduction of the duty on rum. of Ulster, as works producing no public good ; and by
Also, a petition from a place in Scotland, the name of the Government inspector himself, as works which could
which did not reach the gallery, to the same effect. answer no other principal but to employ the people.
The Noble Duke hoped the Government would not press It was true that a great calamity was over-
any measure of a permanent nature, until the parties coming Ireland, but at the same time he could
interested had been heard against the proposition. This not look with anything like despondency upon the pre-
was but just to them, as they complained of being sent state of the country. In former times this had
taken by surprise by the manner introduced by the risen from difficulties heavier than these, and they ought
Government. He felt certain, that if the reduction in not to be appalled at the present calamity. In a period
the rum duty was made it would only cause greater of war they were enabled to expend upon an average
exertion to be made for the repeal of the malt-tax. , of forty years one hundred and three millions a year ;
THE SUPPRESSION OF CRACOW. and they ought not to be downhearted at having to pro-
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE laid on the table vide for a deficiency which was estimated at ten mil-
certain papers, which he stated had been delayed in lions.—(Hear, hear.) He expected with confident hope
order that they might be laid complete on the table of the that good would arise eut of the evil ; and, so far from
House. They were the last of the series relating to the lying down and weeping over their misfortunes, like
annexation of Cracow to the Austrian empire, and con- children lost in a wood, they ought to look
tinned the correspondence with the Austrian Government the difficulties fairly in the face, and be resolved and de-
on that subject. He also, by the command of her Majesty, termined to overcome them. He could not forget tha t
laid on the table of the House the first annual report of England had had her bad days as well as Ireland ; that
the Board of Supervision of the Poor-laws in Scotland. they had known the time when the counties of England
The House then adjourned at six o'clock. were ravaged by the fires of incendiaries ; that they had
am- seen England in a time when the Sovereign dare not go
to his own City of London. He could not forget, that
in later times, so little while ago as the year 1842, the
parish rates of England supported 1,437,000 persons,
of whom no less than 83,000 were young able-
bodied men, who were actually confined within
the walls of the workhouse, and 47,000 able-
bodied labourers were sustained by the parish.
Well, then, it appeared to him that when they came to
estimate the situation of Ireland, and compare it with
that of Eagland, there was not so great a difference be-
tween Ireland at the present time and Eng-
land in 1842, and they should not despair
of overcoming their difficultie 3. The years
1841 and 1842 then being periods of great
distress and great difficulty, what had occurred to
change the face of affairs since then in this country— to
prevent Government from meeting the distress as then,
and restoring the kingdom to the most prost prosperous
and affluent condition that ever was known? He was
aware that there were many who ascribed all this im-
provement and prosperity to the operation of those
measures of free trade which were commenced in 1842;
and that, by the reduction of one-sixteenth of a penny.
the introduction of some tons of sugar, and the free
admission of feathers was the sole cause of the
prosperity which they were now enjoying. But he
for one was more disposed to ascribe it to
the railway enterprise which arose about that
period of their history. When they recollected
that in the last three or four years about thirteen millions
had been spent in the construction of railways. And
besides, as he could state on the authority of the reports
of the committees of that House, that 200,000 able-
bodied labourers received employment at twenty-two
shillings a week, which had been culled from the
workhouses, and parishes, he thought he had certainly
discovered the more correct cause for the change which
had come over the circumstances of this counrtry.
But this he might say, that there had been no inquiry
by Parliament made in which the result has not been the
recommendation that the difficulties in Ireland should
be sought to be overcome by the stimulation of
the employment of the people.—(Hear, hear.) In
the year 1836 there was a commission appointed
by her Majesty's Government to inquire into the advan-
tages of a system of railway communication in Ireland.
The result of that inquiry, made by those able commis-
sioners, was a report recommending that a system of rail-
ways should be carried out, and that it should be done
by the assistance of the Government—(Hear, hear.)
He would not tire the House by travelling over the
beaten ground or repeating the reasons on which that
able Report was made, or inform it of the perfect success
which had attended every grant by Parliament for
the improvement of roads in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.)
That report was followed up by another—the report of
Lord Devon's commission, which stated that it was the
opinion of the commissioners, that assistance by
way of loan from Government for railways was the
best means for finding employment for the people.
This led him to the consideration of the
existing state of railway enterprise in Ireland, and he
found that there had been passed Acts of Parliament
for 1,522 miles of railway, and although some of these
Acts have passed so long since as eleven years ago 123
miles of railway have alone been completed, and
164 more are only in course of completion in the present
year. This must prove to this House that there is
some weakness, some debility in Ireland, which
prevents them from carrying out those enterprises.
which in England and Scotland caused the completion
of 2,600 miles of railway, and had caused new Acts to
be passed for 4,600 miles more. Was it the circumstances
of Ireland, or the state of the population, which made
her's a condition not likely to prove advantageous to
railway speculators—far from it. A report from which
he was indebted to Mr. Stephenson, said that the popu-
lation of Ireland and the population of England and
Wales were, as nearly as possible, on a par. In Eng-
land it appeared, taking the last ceasus of the
year 1841, there are, for every two acres and a bit,
one individual of population, whilst in Ireland
the population amounts to one for every 2i
acres ; and in that comparison, let him tell the House,
there were 7,000 acres of waste bogs, and also large
quantities of water in Ireland, taken into consideration,
and therefore, if they were to compare the cultivated
acres of England and Wales with the cultiyated acres of
Ireland, they would find that the balance was in favour
of that conntry, and that Ireland was more densely in
habited than England and Wales. Now, perhaps, they
would tell him that this might be a very good argument,
as far as population was concerned, but what
was the use of the population if they had no
money to pay for their conveyances by railway.
His Right Honourable Friend who sat beside
him would tell them, that in all railway speculations
population were held to be the first element of success ;
and if they told him that the population of Ireland
were incapable of travelling from want of means, he
must answer them with the fact that it was not
so.—(A laugh.) For by a return which he had there,
and for which he was indebted to the industry
of Mr. Laing he found by comparison that the number
of passengers who travelled by the Irish railways as
compared with the number of those who travelled
either by the English or Scotch railways far exceeded
them in number. The House might be surprised, but
the fact was that whilst in the Scotch and English rail-
ways the average number of passengers travelling every
month was about 11,800, whilst on a railway in
Ulster the number travelling was no less than 21,700,
and on the Drogheda and Dublin Railway the number
of passengers was 18,000 per mile. But he would take
these two lines which were completed, one of which, the
Ulster Railway, might be taken in Ireland as the Landon
and Birmingham of England, and he would
compare the number of their passengers with
that of the London and Birmingham line. By the two
former the number of passengers per mile, for one
year, was 1,111,000, and by the latter, 1,108,000 ;
the former being only fifty--six miles in length,
while the latter was double that distance.
This he thought gave a flat denial to the argument of
Irish railways being a ruinous speculation. He might
be asked, then, why it was that speculators did not
come into the market to stimulate railway
enterprise. He was unable to answer the
question, but the fact was as he stated. There was a
feeling of distrust and ignorasice, he feared, as to the
condition of the country, which prevented English
capital from being embarked in these undertakings. Of
the Great Southern and Western Railway 56 miles had
been completed, and as yet it had only opened for
its
branches Of the North British Railway and
branches 72 miles had been completed, which
were partially opened for trafic as well as passengers.
Well, the result was, that the traffic per week of the
Great Southern and Western Railway in the last week
was on 56 miles of railway, while on tbo North
British Railway, which cost 26,300!. per mile, against
15,000/. per mile, the cost of the Great Southern and
Western Railway, the amount of traffic exceeded that
of the Great Southern and Western only by
in Great
t h e money
o n e y Southern
market,
a rke andt Western,wiwhile
339/. per week. Yet so opposed to all principles
of common sense were the feelings of capitalists
shownpe Ith ewhwiochrstwraasiluwnadyosuibvtaesdalatf
as regarded public works in Ireland, that the
. cent,o.
fp premium.—(Hear, um.
English— (H e tr
capitalists, he ar.) t
oWel
invest
, he
hheai had
the most profitable concern, was at 2} per cent. discount
that there was a something of fashion, and some-
thing thing in want of confidence which occasioned the un-
willingnessmoneys in Irish railways. But if they looked to this
part of. the question, they must recollect that most of
the railway proprietors in Ireland were the landlords and
tenants in that country, and that the very calamity which
now impoverished and afflicted that couniry furnished the
very reason why those proprietors should not be able
to meet their calls, and the consequence was that some
of the best speculations in Ireland were now what was
called" stuck fast" for want of money. He would take
the railways in the southern part of Ireland, and read
from a report which he had received from two gen
tlemen, two engineers, who had been travelling in Ireland
for the purpose of this very question of Irish railways.
They said that one of the railways, of which Cork was
one of the termini, and which was sixty-five miles long,
would be commenced when they received funds to
enable them to go on with it. They stated that the
branch to Limerick, which was twenty-five miles
long by the time money was received, and that
the opening of the whole line to Tipperary. would depend
also upon the supply of money. The Kilkenny Junc-
tion,. which was forty-five miles in length, and which
had passed the House, and was also stopped for want of
money. The Cork and Fermoy was stopped for a
similar reason. And a portion of the Limerick and
Waterfordwas similarly circuumstanced ; so was the Cork
and Bandon; so it was with the Cork and Waterford.
This made in the whole 2291 miles of railway stopped
in Ireland for the want of funds. On the
.Dublin
and Mullingar 3,011 were employed, but if the
Company had more money, a greater number
be put on.—(Hear, hear.) might The reason this
money was not forthcoming was because capitalists in
this country mistrusted Irish lines, and the
,proposition
Le had to snake was that Lit:ivcrnint,ht should du away
with that mistrust. The proposition he had to make to
the House was this, the for every 1004 properly ex-

HOUSE OF COMMONS,
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock.
NEW MEMBER.

Mr. PitYME took the oaths and his seat for
,West
Sussex, in the place of Colonel Wyndham.
STANDING ORDERS.

Mr. STRUTT proposed alterations in standing order
No. 13, so as to assimilate the proof of the standing
orders by affidavit, in Scotland, to that which is required
in the case of Ireland, under standing order No. 14.
Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT conceived that this would
be an alteration of great service in removing an incon-
venience that had been felt in the Committee of Private
Bills.

Mr. ESTCOURT explained that this alteration was
intended to be made last session, and it was offly through
a mistake that it did not appear at that time.

RETFOIfII UNION.

Mr. GODSON presented a petition from the guar-
dians of this union, praying that a correspondence
between themselves and the Poor-law Commissioners,
relative to the expense which had been incurred in
the provision of the Christmas dinner of the
paupers, which expense had been uniformly allowed
from the year 1835, when the union was formed, to the
year 1844, but in the present instance the auditor of
the district had disallowed the outlay.
TEN HOURS' BILL.
Lord JOIIN MANNERS and Mr. WAHLEY presented
petitions from Huddersfield and other places in favour of
a Ten Hours' Bill.
HARBOUR CONSERVANCY.
Sir R. FERGUSON presented a petition from Lon-
donderry for the repeal of the Harbour Conservancy
Act.

pended upon railways, Government should guarantee
three and a half per cent. This was less than
hadi heretofore been paid for money, and no doubt
he should be met with arguments against the insuffi-
ciency of the security, but with the indulgence of the
House he should be able to show that with the restric-
tions he should propose the security would be amply
sufficient. There sat beside him a gentleman who
was chairman of the management of 1,700 miles of
railway, who had the conduct of 45,000,0001., and
he W 135 prepared to pledge his commercial
character that Government could not lose one single
farthing by this proposition. The Right Hon. Gentleman
the Lord Mayor of York would tell the House that the
worst railway under his direction would afford 7 per cent.
security to Government; and he himself would be pre-
pared to show that the worst railway in Belgium or Scot-
land would amply pay for the money expended on them.
He was now speaking of passenger-traffic. It was here
entirely a question of passengers.—(Hear, hear.) Well,
then, he had said that his proposition was, that Govern-
! meet should lend out at interest money at
that rate at which they borrowed. He believed
that the interest now was 31. 6s. Bd. per cent,
But he would assume it to be 31- per cent. Govern-
ment were to take the security on the entire loan.
There would then be 71. on 2001. The line that paid
21. 6s. Bd. per cent. would afford for the interest of
Government. He would show this from the Ar
breath and Forfar line, which cost 9,0001.
The receipts upon that line were for the
firs year 4681., and the cost of the working of the line
was 2021., leaving to Government a clear interest, be-
sides 2/. per cent. for the shareholders. To show what
that line was, he must tell the House that all
the traffic which existed previous to the coh-
struction of that railway from Arbroath to
Forfar amounted, what could be carried on a one-horsed
carrier which plied once a-week.—(Hear, hear, and a
laugh.) The passenger-traffic daily, at present, was
247 persons, and last year ninety thousand pas-
senger_s, and paid five per cent. to the shareholders.
Having selected the worst line in the empire, and taken
it in its earliest infancy to show that the security
would be wholly sufficient, he had now to show
to the House the grounds on which he confidently
expected that the passing of this measure would
have the effect of stimulating English capitalits
and that they would forthwith set to work to complete
the railways in Ireland. But before he went on to do
so, his Hon. Friend behind him (Mr. Hudson) reminded
him that he ought to have stated that this
security of 1001. properly expended for every 2001,
they asked was a security unquestioned. They proposed
to make the railway commissioners a board which is
responsible to both Houses of Parliament, an efficient
board for the purpose of dealing out those loans
to the companies. They proposed to throw
the entire responsibility upon those commissioners
for the due perfbrmance of their duties, and
unless they shall report that the railway at once pro-
mises to be beneficial to the country, and also unless
reasonable and sufficient security be given, the State is
not to be called upon to subscribe, or to advance any
money upon the enterprise. He was going on to show in
what position the proposition would place the share-
holders, and it would be at once clear to the House, that
whilst the Government would gain four per cent., it
would pay twelve to the shareholder on every 3001. laid
out. He would take a railway, of all others in Ireland,
which was looked upon as of the utmost national import-
auce, and comprises the greatsst number of shareholders.
He would take the Waterford and Limerick Railway.
Now, the position of the Waterford and Limerick Rail-
way was this : it was estimated that the cost of the
railway would be 750,0001., but they had taken power to
borrow 250,000/. more, and he was assured, from the gene-
ral experience of all railways which had been constructed
in this country and in Scotland, that he should not be
safe, unless he estimated the amount of the cost of the
railway not only the estimated capital but also of the
loans which they had power to take. Ile assumed,
therefore, that the Waterford and Limerick Railway
would cost 1,000,0001. sterling before it was com-
pleted. They had already expended 324,000/. in the
construction of different works—(Hear, hear)—
but they were stopped for want of money, and
the consequence was, that though 271, 10s. had been
paid up of each 501. share, those shares were at from
12 to 14 discount. So that, in point of fact,
the market value of the 324,0001. so expended
on the Waterford and Limerick Railway was 162,0001.
Now, under his proposition, it would not be
necessary to make any
_further vain calls on
the shareholders, as the company would be entitled at
once to demand from the Government a loan
,equal to
648,0001. What would be the effect of this ?
It had been estimated that the traffic of the
railway would admit of a dividend on a capital
of 750,0001. of 6?., per cent. But considering that the
true expenditure would be not 750,0001., but 1,000,0001.
sterling ; that would give 5 per cent. as the probable
dividend on the entire cost of the railway. But
her Majesty's Government came in and lent
them two-thirds of their capital at per cent.
The result would be that the 324,0001. share capital
already expended, would have a fair and early prospect
of a dividend of 8 per cent. The effect of such
a course would be, that the shares of that Com-
pany, instead of being dead in the market,
instead of being at a discount of 162.0001.,
would instantly rise to a premium, and the lauded
proprietary and tenantry of Ireland being unable to
meet the calls upon them, ,would be enabled to
get rid of their shares at a premium, and
employ the money so obtained in the improvement of
their estates, and in giving employment to the people
of Ireland ; so that his propositions would have a double
effect ; it would at once set to work an immense
number of persons, and it would enable the landed
proprietors, who were now shareholders in the concern,
to make use of the money for the improvement of their
estates and the employment of the people. He
had a letter from Lord Glengall, stating that he
knew a railway company which, if they bad money,
were prepared to employ 16,000 men.—(Hear, hear.)
In the counties of Kilkenny, Limerick, and Water-
ford, as well as in each of the four baronies, a
similar result would take place.---(Hear.) Now, in
each of these places the expenditure under the present-
ment sessions had been at the rate cif 4,0001. per month
for the last three months, with every prospect of these
demands being continued.—(Cries of " hear, hear.")
And there was this additional objection to this expendi
ture, that it was upon useless and unproductive works.
A magic influence had, however, come over the Govern-
ment, and they had allowed money to be advanced on
the earth-works of railways on the security of pre-
sentments. He thought the course he proposed,
—namely, to advance money on the security of railways
—would be much better than on the security of
land. The proposal of lending money to
railways in the security of land was made in 1839, and
when first proposed, was carried by a, majority, but her
Majesty's Government would not assent to the
proposal. He considered this a wrong course,
and the result showed that ho was right in
coming to such a conclusion, for while the lands along-
side of which railways passed were increased in value to
the amount of 1,0001. per cent., the land along the
old channels of communication remained stationary.
When he was upon this subject of the- railways in the
southern districts of Ireland, it was only fair to state
that the Waterford and Limerick -Railway Company
were prepared to employ 16,000 men upon their
works. But he would read the application made
by the Chairman of the Great Southern and
Western Railway Company to the Government,
on the 22d of May, of the last year, Mr. Ginger Carr,
the chairman of the Great Southern and Western Rail-
way Company, addressed a letter to Sir Robert Peel,
in which he stated that, after consulting the contractors,
he found that, if they were accommodated with a sum
of 500,0001., they would undertake to give simultaneous
employment to many thousand persons in different
portions of their line, and the writer of the letter
added, that the utmost care would be taken in the
payment of the wages to adopt a system
of wise economy, while at the same time
a great extent of relief would be afforded to the popula-
tion of the different counties, and Government still would
bellremunerated for the money advanced. He also inclosed
a copy of a letter which he had addressed to the
Secretary of Public Works in Ireland, and
after stating that the length of line was 200
miles, and that the dense population of the
towns along the line, from Templemore to Tipperary,
had long been known for their discontented condition,
and there was no means of alleviating this evil excepting
by an employment of the people. He might safely
assert, that 50,000 poor fellows were now starving
and idle, who would be placed in a condi-
tion of comparative comfort by the receipt of
wages which would render them and their families
happy diiring the most trying period of the year—
namely, the months of July and August. Now, he would
have Hon. Members to reflect that it this offer of the
Great Southern and Western Company to employ 50,000
labs;arers, it would have exhibited a true wisdom and a
true ecoisomy, and have prevented the necessity of now
being called upon to pay half the expenses of these
parochial presentments for the maintenance of the Irish
poor.