The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-03 00:00:00

WEDNESDAY

• chequer. Chamber, and he had the satisfaction to
inform the House that this very day that Cu urt had
unanimously pronounced a decision reversing the judg-
ment of the Court of Queen's Bench.—(Loud cheers.)
It might be important to the House to know the grounds
on whieh this important decision was given, but the
grounds on whicn the judgment was given rendered it
unnecessary. He hoped, however. be might be permitted,
that: the result of this, inquiry confirmed and sanctioned
the report and recommendation of the Select Committee,
and he should thereloreniove that the short-hand writer's
notes should be printed, and circulated amongst the
Members of that House
POSTPONEMENT OF MOTIONS.

Mr. P. SCROYE said that he did not wish to inter-
pose between the debate of last night the motion of
which he had given notice, namely--`' That the lives of
the people of Ireland ought to be as valuable in the eye
of the law as the lives of the people of England ; conse-
quently, it is expedient to extend to Ireland the main
principle of the English poor. law, namely, the right of
the destitute poor to relief, from a public provision, to
save them from perishing." If other Hon. Members
were willing to postpone their notices he would at once
follow the example.
Mr. B. ESCO rT said he also did not wish to em-
barrass the Government, and he would not press the
House to a discussion on his motion.
LETTING OF LANDED PROPERTY IN
IRELAND.

Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD said that the reso-
lution which he proposed, namely, " That it appears to
this llou*e, from the reports of various Committees and
Commissions, that the system generally adopted in times
past in the letting and management of landed property in
Ireland, has been one of the main causes of the presen
distressed state of that country, and the disordered state
of its social relations ; and that no measures can be
effectual in producing a demand for labour, or improving
the condition of the people, which sh-0,11 not include such
an amendment of the laws of landlord and tenant as
shall give to the improving tenant in occupation a suffi-
cient permanency of tenure, or else establish the tenant's
right to claim by law full compensation for all berm.
fits created by the expenditure of his labour
and capital on the premises in question," was
intimately associated with the question under de-
bate, and he accordingly felt some difficulty in yielding
to the Noble Lord.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that it was his intention
to brie nz in a Bill for the very same object as that pro•
posed by the Hon. Gentleman at the very earliest possible
moment. On account of the pressure of business, the
Government were at the present moment unable to
give the question that attention which it demanded.
Nlr. S. CRAWFORD said that he would fix Thurs-
_

day next fur the discussion of his motion.
Mr. ROEBUCK said that he felt very great difficulty
in giving up his motion; if he did so, be considered that
he would have some claim upon the Noble Lord at a
future day for his motion, which was, that a Committee
of the whole House be appointed, for the purpose of
referring to it the Act 5 and 6 Vic., c. 35, with a view to
extend the operation of the skid Act to Ireland.
FINANCIAL STATEMENT.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, that as soon as the
House had consented to the second reading of these
Bills, the Chancellor of the Exchequer would bring
forward the whole of the question as it regarded finance.
His Right Hon. Friend would make his financial state-
ment on an early day, and then it would be competent
for the Hon. Member to bring forward his resolution.

ABSENTEES-IRELAND.

Mr. 11. GRATTAN said, that with regard to the
motion of which he had given notice—namely for a
return of the absentees from Ireland, stating their names
and annual incomes drivel from property therein ;
specifying the counties in which their estates are situate,
and distinguishing such as are temporarily or more than
six months absent from Ireland: that the guardians
of the poor. law unions in Ireland do furnish
an account of the annual value of the property
of all absentees in their respective unions assessed
to the poor rare : that the Commissioners, under
the Act 5 and 6 Vic., c. 35, do furnish an account of the
aggregate amount of all property in Ireland taxed under
the provisions of that Act, an :1 other Acts continuing
the same: also, a return of the number of persons re-
siding in England, or temporarily absent there-
from, charged under the Act 5 and 6 Vic., e. 35,
and the Act for continuing the same, in respect
of profits and gains arising from any allowance
annuity, stipend, or trade in Ireland ; together with the
total amount of the duties levied in respi-ct of such profits
and gain; that the governor and directors of the Bank
of Ireland do furnish an account of the amount of all
annuities, dividends, and shares of annuities payable by
the said company out of the public revenues of the
United kingdom to or to the use or benefit of any
persons not resident in Ireland —he was in the
same predicament as the Honourable Member for
Bath.—(llear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman said that
his measure was preliminary to others; now the return
which he (Mr. Grattan) moved for was a corollary to
his (Mr. Roebuck's) motion.—(Laughter.) He wished,
therefore, to know whether the Right Hon. Gentleman,
the S'cretary for Ireland, would have any objection to
grant the return?

Mr. LABOUCHERE said, that if he were inclined to
grant the rem!), he did not know how to come at the
inforination.

Mr. H. GRATTAN—There was no difficulty what-
ever in the matter. There was the list (pointing to a
paper in his hand), and he would be happy to furnish the
particulars, without asking for the pay or the permis-
sion of the Irish Secretary.

LETTER-CARRIERS.
Mr. GROGAN moved fur a return showing the
amount of wages paid to the letter-carriers of class
No. 1 of this metropolis, on the Ist day of July, 1846,
and also the average amount of all other emoluments
received by them respectively ; similar returns for the
letter-carriers of classes Nos. 2 and 3 ; returns showing
the amount of wages now paid to the letter•carriers in
each class, and any other compensation they had in ad-
dition ; also similar returns for the letter-carriers of
Dublin, with the emoluments they had in addition to
their salary.—Agreed to.
On the order of the day being read for resuming the
adjourned debate on the

LABOURING POOR (IRELAND) BILL,
Mr. G. A. HAMILTON was desirous to express the
gratification he felt at the close of the speech of the
Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer
last night, where he evinced the sympathy he enter-
tamed for the sufferings of the people of Ireland.
He really believed that it was impossible for any one to
realise to himself the extent of the misery which had
taken place in Ireland who had not had the opportunity
of observing it for himself. Why, in the part of Ireland
where he resided, within twenty miles of Dublin, where
the poor were within the reach of markets, where every-
thing had been done which couid be done to mitigate
or to avert this dreadful calamity, he said that it was
most melancholy to observe the gradual approach of this
fearful visitation. It was most melancholy to observe
the gradual sinking of the smaller farmers from a state
of comfort to a state of poverty ; the gradual disappear-
ance of his little luxuries, of his slender comforts ; the
disappearance of his pig, of his poultry, of his artices of
household furniture—all indicative of the gradual and
certain approach of this visitation. Still more melan-
choly was it to observe even among the labour-
ing classes the approach of this calamity;
the mournful countenances, the desponding
and downhearted appearance so unusual among the
peasantry of Ireland, all telling a tale of famine not
Likely to be misunderstood. He knew enough of Ire-
land to know that if this state of things existed in a part
of the country so favourably placed, they might
easily imagine what must be the state of
people in the more remote parts. There were two or
turee points in the speech of the Right Honourable
Barouet opposite to which he felt it his
duty to refer. He imputed to the gentlemen
of Ireland a degree of supineness, because they had
not availed themselves of the provisions of an Act,
passed in the beginning of last session, by which money
might be provided for the improvement of estates ; and
also that they had not availed themselves sufficiently of
the provisions of another Act passed at a later
period of the session, being an Act for the
better drainage of estates in Ireland. With regard to
the first of these Acts, it was tried and found to be in-
operative. He saw the Right lion. Baronet, the late
Secretary for the Home Department, in his place, and
it might be in his remembrance that, in a conversation
between him, the Honourable Baronet the Member for
Derry, and himself (Mr. Hamilton), they informed
the Right lion. Baronet that a particular clause in that
Act (the clause which made it imperative that they
should apply to the Court of Chancery) would stultify
it altogether. The House had already been informed
that the operation of the second Act, which ap-
plied to the drainage of estates, was rendered
inoperative by a- defect in the third clause
The Right Honourable Gentleman the Chancellor
of the Exchequer •Ceinplained that the gentry of Ireland
had made presentments under the Labour-rate Act too
freely, and without any previous inquiry into the ne-
cessity of the works that were to be undertaken. Now,
the truth was, the Act required no preliminary inquiry
on the part of the gentry, while the presentment
sessions were not called together except to meet an
emergency, and the consequence was the rate-
payers and gentry had to make their present
•
inept under the most unfavourable circumstances.
Ibis appeared to constitute a very important difference
between the Act passed at the commencement and at the
end of the session. He thought the Right Honour-
' able Gentleman had dealt rather hardly with
the relief committees in Ireland. No doubt
abuses existed. There might be those on the
ila
lists
s'who were not entitled to relief ; but it should be re-
collected
ncosunasilseteodurosef
Wclaeragiyormtehneaenidermgya:
be best acquainted
of the district—(llear,
any case of extreme distress.
gcoisltlercatte4 that the tthielabt
to
Flow ihen could the committees
c?erslitoe
take on themselves to
7-teaniatrh)-1:hhoeo represent wassupposed
circumstances
enfroton3threeloieffif
judicious. Having
• • 'the lists was extremely
revise
cm:7,llllller.,
tversoTestetthiouns
artetc„ormwansredisingeidv
whatever to look
to state that he had no desire
made these few observations on thelie speechwas of the
Right Honourable Gentleman,anxious
back upon what had passed within the last few
e .
He
weeks in Ireland, or to speak unfavourably of
aware
earceon-
duet of her Majesty's Governm of
the difficulties by which they were surrounded.
thought, moreover, that the Lord-Lieutenant and
the rest of the Government were entitled
to the greatest praise for having taken upon
themselves to carry out productive works 1n
st,etnalnio-rfatt,,eAseot.thaetolw,ei,2reL,riinng ei:ipwerdatiineimonituinesdenrnitthne
t, ;
quent upon tia,17..• duties, and the frnrl3 placed at tit'
eli;Tesei, cc;;,il4::‘;_ci lhar ci Works vitae
also entitled to the thanks of the country for the efficient