The Sun.
London, England, 1847-05-11 00:00:00

had the means - ---- --_
t 4
iv_ eans of giving employment, should be induced
ding e enlPloyment by a knowledge that a proper divi-
ir,._ of: thy burden would full upon his own shoulders
•.*(eatt of another man's, he asked them to affirm that
11:: ngtli
7 n uotice that, from the
Eritricdo- He proposed in the amendment of which he
thus Ist of January, 1859,
at will should become liable fo the same condi-
as those who had at present permanent leases. If
its that were
.sound, the qu.stion then came as to
lie did
.1 application—and wheth rit was a safe. one?
not apply
be left it at once—he applied it prospectively;
it to the tenants atthe landlords forthe
iix, . • will ants to .
ra`_Lwo years and a half to enter into this new ar-
auVrnent. He knew the popular feeling upon this
upon Ho knew the declamations that were made
ittrn !I the hard-heartedness and griping hands of the Irish
.11 ulords. Ile knew the indiscriminating, sweep-
Ito. condemnation which this country was so much
all things to cast upon Ireland and upon
amp pgs Irish. Ile knew how ready people were to
heat the could not stop to pick the few grains of
_ l!t from. the bushel of chaff, and that they could not
bi u::!iuhtre in,c, the exc-ptions in individual instances. He
dire yard that the landlords of Ireland were totally in-
pacitient to anything except collecting., in the most ra-
th , us Manner, every thin,' that they could screw from
e bard eo •of .
that thb h but he also knew
,riiings t..sir tenants ;
14,,i eY were proceeding to legidatt! for the purpose of
0;144; upmi the landlords those hardAtips which they
of Irish
them with inflicting. If such were the character
j,trish landlords—if it were the fact that there were
th-Lances bf such short-sighted capactty—if they thought
from",eY could protect the tenant by this tegulati n
ne gr• • •• f l il. d if they thought that
the IPing spirit o ant or s—
ip, Same lan,llord, who had the power of exl.cting the
tferinost farthing from the tenant, and screwing out of
11.0411 everyh, shilling and every penny that he could drag
thatln —4l by any process whatever—did they believe
the• such
i . a landlord would not protect himself against
co:: Legislation by such an increase of rent as would
Said r that possible amount of rate ? The
that the tenant had not got the money
i„„° P,aY the rate, and that they could not pay it. Theit
iv", was that the tenants did pay it—(Hear, hear)—it
do al by them it was now paid, and all that they a
. Was to receipt for so much rate as part
pasiten produce a
the t for so much rent; cou
ld they believe that if, as
the part of the
h Y said, there was this spirit on .
6°4°,4 peasant to bid for land at whatever price it could
the obtained—if there was such a determined spirit on
l -"e Part of the landlord to exact the uttermost farthing
i 'Vic' they entertain the delusion, that by saying, that
,Te landlord sho landlord the rate, they would relieve
`"e tenant?—the would exact the utmost rent,
Zilch
the tenant would pay. so that there would be so
Zilch less rate collected. They might fancy that they
•1 'slieved• the tenant, but in the meantime they did away
With the inducement to the tenant to employ labour.
44.0 would, perhaps, be met by the assertion, that the
universal resistance
unless
would meet with an
no
-nless it was altered. That was a confession which
w°verninent would m ike without being degraded—that
all law and he
-- a confession which was fatal to ,_ _ t
trusted
r that in that House it would not be briloght
.orward as an argument.—(Hear, hear.) If
01_
Wet° believed, that the principle was one f
800rUpd legislation, they should be firm in the application
11l
it' and the prospective application would enab e a
parties to
that he arrange it between themselves; but he hoped
should not undergo what he considered the de-
gradation of hearing, in that House, as an argument,
wils.atic they would adopt a principle not sound in itself, and
hh
would not answer in England, because there was
:Passive resistance which they dare not encounter. He
attlot aware that he need trespass further upon their
wt.usips' attention in advocating the amendment of
tch t.
ea had giveu notice. He bad shortly put forth
what he conceived to be its recommendation—its envou-
i&entent of labour—and that which could be fatal to
".' rejection, namely,in future it brought the in-
terest that
of the landlord and tenant to one dead level; and
woe
Id remove that • m which threatened
m mass of pauperism
lable resources of the country, and the only
avai
. as of providing for which was the diminution of that
to • .
ot,„, eitY with which the tenant in Ireland clung to the
—llPatlon f his of land, and the este
%lull 0 wretched plot
from eut of an independent body of labourers, apart
was ado
the farmers. He did not think, unless his measure
''' adopted, they couldprevent that which
Was actin
1a gas a continual flame in this country agai •nst
so Lad---uarnely, the influx of a large body of labourers.
80 long as the rate of wages was higher here than there,
them Would that influx take place. He did not ask
tzfro to consider the measure with selfish eyes, for their
Lo. Would be visited on their own shoulders, and a retri-
:letive infliction upon this country. Let them consider
*(l"._ question as judges deciding a question of - life or
/.7._ath, and he asked no more for the Irish landlord and
..aribthe Irish labourer. It was such a measure, and such
"„__
.oeasure only, that could be effectual for this country
yr,f.s.r Ireland.--(Cheers.)
B,ll;uhe Marquis of LANSDOWNE (who during his
ere,,e,ell was frequently quite inaudible) said that he
dittge'ro venture to state to their Lordships that of all the
fru_ enees which they had had in the course of that ar-
4neelst on this important bill, the difference which the
41,st:dill, eat of his Noble Friend had made was the
the,,insPortant. lie said that not in reference to
ill thvarticular consideration adverted to at the outset
tiporte sPeoch of the Noble Lord, on an observation made
that the Previous occasion. He was far from thinking
two tie e°osideration arising out of the priviliges of the
Yet, le uses of Parliament, ought to be disregarded.
• --`llg that subject of a subsequent consider-
ation , as a
consider-
he did wish to meet the Noble Lord fairly, and
or an
discuss this amendment upon its own merits, exclusive
t„,_._-,Y external consideration. The Noble Lord had
illp7ea that he had no hesitation in stating that the re-
On of this clause would prove disastrous in its con -
-equences to both countries ; yet, he as confidentlybe
stated, that it was its adoption which . would
to
Productive of these effects to Ireland , acid
it,ile success of the measure, which he was justi-
fied in saying, was approved of by a great
number of their L.)rdships. Those of their Lordships
Who were most opposed to
allowed many of the objections to the clauses which were
.
most objectionable to pass without dividing upon tr, and
'Lord 1 i elf said that he was one, and
heeven the Noble i ea,
desirous ofthis Billpassing into a law. He
was
hedged their Lordships to consider what was the cha-
racter of this Bill, and that it required extensive ma-
chinery to be created, for the assistance of the board of
guardians. The principles of the present
Bill were en-
tirely consonant with the principle of a measure adopted
Y hch, theirduring Lordships five or six years ago, and whi
That time had been found to work well.—(Cheers.)
The effect of this measure would be to throw thteeabduor-t.
imposing
of the rating entirely upon the tenant, ms
'e,a'Posing• it equally upon all classes. He asked the
Noble Lord— fleet a little before he imposed burdens
Of
thisto re
upon the tenants of the country. The
Noble
,sort
hadstated that they ought to allow them-
_°,llle Lord .
"Ives to be influenced by the impression which any
alettsure was likely to produce. He thought that such
a • •
Prlnciple was not calculated to assist any Goverment
irk
d for the
ures —for some regar
• carrying out its meas , ,
was
44?reEsio i that any measure was likely to produce,
%)solutely indispensable —(Hear, hear.) The Noble
Lord had stated, that the burden would be dis
•
rlbuted equally by his measure, and which would '
ri "e, much of the odium attached to the
'l'lll't ~,tY the proceedings of the Government.
s 05.,,- —l4out did not attach itself to the measure in con-
e•s-eoce • •the Government. They stated
that th 01 any fault of
try eY Were about
was no to impose a burden upon the conn-
ote, !Ind nat with any degree
lure, and it only remained for the Government to
trotect the tenant against any undue exercise of power
elle landlord. A new system of valuation of the land
a‘l been introduced into the country, and with that and
other remedies he thought that sufficient good would be
produced without adding to this measure—(which they
the
with sited to be attended
some degree of uncertainty,)
further danger incurred by the motion of
the Noble
..) Lord. It was the desire of the Noble
--e,ru, 18
he stated, to conciliate the people,
and yet he attempted it by affording a further
facility for the infliction of taxation of the people. He
bad complained of the imperfection of the measure, but
the imperfection of any law was no reason for departing
it
from the good principle which it might contain,
evil which
trying measures which aggravatetmermtey.It was upon these
grounds,
d
thelaw
was
intended
the conviction that the amendment
and from
would render the whole
scheme of legislation useless,
that he asked their Lordships to refuse their assent to it.
After a few words from Lord WALSINGHANI,
Lord MONTEAGLE said that, feeling as strongly
upon this subject as he did, he must be allowed to state
why it was that he supported this amendment. lie had
formerly stated, regard to this measure,
with that the
led astray by supposing
public at large were frequently
_, . ,
that what worked well in one country must necessarily
Work well in another ; and therefore they argued that
because the poor-law answered in England,
it should
equallyhis statements would
apply in Ireland. Many of
Indeed be inapplicable, if the state of things in Ireland
'Were analogous to those in En land.
Eng-
lish The Government
Would find, however, that if they introduced the
poor-law without modifications. they were enactingrh;iir
the part of very unwise legislators.—(Hear.)
Lord
ships should take it into consideration that in. En-
gland the poor-law rate bad been recognised from time
marnetnorial as binding upon all classes, but in Irelandtbc law was altogether new, and likely, therefore, to be
rewed with distrust. There was great difference in the
laVosition of a tax for the first time and the levying,
coa tax which had been long in existence, and long re-
gniseJ by the various classes who paid their portions
se the saw,. Of all times, the present was the least
adapted
for the collection of a tax which, compared w
the
—le; other taxes now levied in the country, was as
.a
ineweVit of a mountain compared with the weight of
-°4e-hill. Suppose that an alteration were to be
Wade, from asytem of out-door relief to one of
theoor
, relief, ors a change in the amount of
.taxation of the country from 10s. in the pound tois.
1.I.: the Pound, then there might be a probability of get-
"ng the lesser amount collected, but when it was 1)1-9-
Posedt., to raise the ansoant of taxation from Is. to 10,. in
"e Pouuti, it was evident that the larger amount could
never be collected. He was not sanguine as to the suc-
cess of the measure even with the clause as proposed by
the Noble Lord. He would much rather leave the whole
responsibility of the measure in the hands of the Go-
vernment, so that they should not at any time be able to
turn round upon those Noble Lords who supported the
la use, and ascribe its failure to the operation of tie
clause which they had introduced. He thought that the
I:hriociple of the clause was, however, a sound one, and
h.° y difficulty be felt in supporting it arose from
11; belief of the impossibility of carrying out the mea•
sure before their Lordships.
t. arl. of HARDWICKE considered that the opera-
'on of the poor-law had, in England, been the means of
rdlog much benefit ; but was it to be supposed
fur a moment, that if the poor's rates had
been paid by the landlords alone, that this country
t would have ever risen to such a height of prosperity, or
been enabled as it then was to assist in ameliorating
the mighty distress which overhung both this country