The Sun.
London, England, 1841-03-24 00:00:00

PRICE sth

On thc motion of Mr. HODGES the second reading of
the Parochial Assessments Bill was postponed till April 21.

SECONDARY PUNISHMENTS.
Lord MAHON rose to move—" That in the opinion of
this House, the large increase of the number of convicts to
be rermanently confined in the hulks of Great Britain, al-
though senteoced to transportation, in pursuance of the Mi-
nute of the Secretary of State for the Home Depertment,
dated Jan. 2, 1839, is highly inexi:e&ent." He said he was
awry to have fund on former discussions on transportation
and secondary punishments, that there was such a discre-
pancy between the imlifference of the House and the im-
mense importance of the subject. That indifference, too,
had been shown whoever was the party bringing it under
the notice of the Ileuse. tie recollected that two years
ago, when tt e Noble Lord the Secretary for the Cclonics,
made a speech upon the subject of two hours' duration, he
!male it to a number ef Members that scarcely made a
Ilouse. Still, though that was discouraging, he felt it to be
his duty once more to press the qu.etion upon the attention
of the House. Bei rre doing so lie had taken an opportuory
f censultieg some Hon. Members, who were well qual'-
fled to ghee an opini-sn upon the ques inn, as many of them
had been long engr gel is the adiniai,tration of justice as
chairmen of Qriart, r Sessions ; and if the House wool I
grant him tin it patience for a time he would pr eve,
by the most irrefragable evidence, the danger of the
course pursued by- the Noble Ler3.—(Ficar, hear.)
In the Noble Leri's minutes, on the 23 of Jaeuery, 1839,
he laid down this proposition—that the consiots sentenced
to seven years' transportation should be, as far as ixacti
cable, confioei is the hulks at the dock-yards. This was
followed up by a le ter from the Under-Secretary of
State. The accumulation of convicts at the
Hulks was 33,000, whereas it would appear
that the number confined there the Ist of January,
in the previous year, was 1,789; the iicrease, the:efore,
was about double. From the report of Air. Capper it
appeared that the number on the Ist of January last was
3 553. But he must observe that a much larger increase
must be soon expected, for without adverting to the flue-
tuatieg policy adertsd on the subject, and looking
only to the practical state of things, he found
from a calcu'a•ion appended t ) the minute,
that in the year 1837 the total number of convicts sea-
t mced to transportation was 3,600, and that of these, those
sentenced to seven years' transportation were 2,100, or
nearly ewe-thirds of the whole. Therefore, the practi2al
stare, f things, according to the system of the Noble Lord,
was that 2,000 convicts, who otherwise would have been
transported abroad were retairel in the dock-yards and
hulks as home. Aft tr a certsie number of years
to be again turned hose upon society. Tais being the
state of facts, tl e first objection to the proceedings
of the Noble Lord appealed to hint to be the
undue extension of the prerogative of the Crown.
( Hear, hear.) 1 hey were, no doubt, in conformity
with the letter of Vie he-, but they clearly appeared to
him ( Lord M.) to be a vlola.i an of its spirit.
Let them consider what was the object of the law in
allowing this discretion to the Secretary of State.
It was undoubtedly that he might discriminat,
betty( en particular cases, and that in the (vent
of early youth or extreme old age, or any other
special cireumFtanees, he might at discretion re alts
at. home those whom the law had sentenced to trans-
portation. But the law did not contemplate the wholesale
exercise of this power by the Noble Lord, or that the
words " transp- res far seven years" should be con-
strued into " isninisonment in the Hulks at home."
That was undoubtedly an undue extension of the powers
cf the law ; and that was the first to which he wished to
call the attention of the House. The next subject upon
which he had to complain was the undue disregard of the
evidence taken before the House of Ist-Hs. A Committee
had sat in 1835 far the pw pose of considering the whole
subject, and that Committee had pursued its irquiries with
great diligence. It had for its Cheirsnan the Duke of
Richmond—a sufficient guaraotee that the inquiry had been
conducted with diligence, talent, and skill. That Com-
mittee ha 1. cone to the following resolution :—" From the
iie.v which the Committee takes of the inherent defects
of the hulk system and of the mischief which it is calculated
to produce, they cannot but concur in the opinion
expreseel by a Committee of the House of Commons on
secondary punishments, to the effect that in future no person
sentenced to transportation should be allowed to remain per-
m ;neatly in the country, with the exception of those selected
for confinement in the Millbank Penitentiary, and that
heaceLrward the convicts established at the hulks
should be considered sob ly as an intermediate
station between the gaol and a penal colony."
That was the recommendation of a Committee of the House 1
of Lords after a full and deliberate inquiry into the
mitten ; and he would ask the Noble Lend opFo:ite why,
without any subsequent inveitigali o', and without having
elicit 'd any new facts, he had determined on complying
with that decision ? If the question were a party one he could
understand the course of the Noble Lord, who might
that he did not assent to an opinion adopted
by such men as the Duke of Richmond, or Lord
Wharncliff‘! a rinomirm as the present he
(Lord Mshen) caw no reason n-lay the Nable
Lord should not respect the seem-lure idation is question.
Now lie would ask why, e i•hout any subsequent inquiry,
this recammend-ti an of the Committee for tae disconti-
nuance of the hulks had been set aside ?

L;rd JOHN RUSSELL—;The Transportation Con.
mittce sub3equently to that 1\ commendation.

Lord MAHON would remind the House that the
Transportation Committee had not emcee,' into the
question of the hulks at all, nor wai there one syllable of
their Report which could he considered as a commendation
of the hulk system of Great Britain. Perhaps the Noble
Lord might have thought that the Peers' Committee had
proceeded on their own judgment without any evidence,
but the contrary was the fact ; they had examined those
persons who of all othe-s were the most competent to form
an opinion on that subject. They had examined Mr. W.
Crawford, and surely the Noble Lord could not ob-
ject to his authority, seeing that the Noble Lord had
himself, in conjunction wish his colleagues, ap-
pointed that gentleman to examine into the hulk
system of the United Stetes. Mr. Crawford said
the hulk system was very bad, and as a proof he stated
th it having been on the Committee of the Refuge for the
Destitute for years he had always found that parties t eleased
from the hulks who applied for relief to that Institution,
}.al invariably turned out to be the wor-t eharac:ers, and
that he had frequently asked gaolers their opinion of trans-
portation, and they all stated it excited the greatest dread
in the minds of convicts. Mr. Newman, the turn-
key of Newgate, when asked if be thought t ans-
portaian excite.' dread in the minds of eiiininale, re-
plied that he thought it did, and that they gene
Italy know that it was worse now than it used to be.
Perhaps the strongest opinion which he could adduce was
that of Mr. Samuel Hall, Secretary (as we understood
the Noble Lord) of the Society f n Promoting the
Improvement of Prison Discipline. Being asked if he be-
lieved that the hulk system had been of any ser-
vice, he replied that, so far from that, he be-
lieved it to be most admirably ca'culated to pro-
mote crime ; yet the system was relied on by the
Government es the means of checking crime. Considerable
miiepprehension bad prevailed as to the object to be obtained;
he i ai seen many plens which had no other ends in view
than the reformation and impruvement of the criminal,
for the prevention of crime was yet a higher object,
the hulks were entirely inefficient. He could state
on the authority of several respectable gentlemen, Mem-
bers of that House and Chairmen of Quarter Sessions,
that they did not inspire a sufficient degree of terror, and
were looked upon by the friends and relations of the criminal
as a light punishment compared with transportation. He
lieved the records deposited in the office of the Secretary be-
ef State for the Home Department would abundantly
justify this assertion. He might allude to the case
which occurred last year. In that case petitions were
presented by the friends of the criminal, praying that he
might undergo his sentence in the hulks. The argument
was plausible, that by iacreesing the ...wester of the
d;evipffne at borne, you inspire terror, but
practically the punishment of the hulks was insuffi-
cient to deter from crime.—( Hear, hear.) He be-
lieved that the minute of the Noble Lord had
been attended with very prejudicial effects, not only to
the comforts, but the health of the prisoners, and that
many had died from confinement in the hulks. He had
moved for certain returns, about three weeks since, which
would elucidate that point, but they had not yet been
laid upon the table, and he could not in their absence lay
further stress upon the reports that had been abroad.—
( Hear, hear, hear.) In the Report of the state of the
[hulks, which had been lately placed in the hands cf
Hon Members, it was stated that the inspector regretted
the unnatural and constant depression of healih and
strength that was experienced arising from the hard la-
beur and rigorous discipline of the hulks. These were
strong words coming from an officer bolding such an
pointment. He added that for several years past there
had been a gradual decay of the strength of the prisoners,
which he attributed to the poorness and sameness of the
diet. The hulks did not afford those facilities for im-
provement which bad of late taken place in their legisla-
tion on that subject. They could not have either the se-
parate or the silent system ; and, in short, the hulks in
practice was conducted on the same system as their _
pm-
sons 30 years ago.—( Hear, hear.) The substitution of
imprisonment in the hulks for tr3nsportatien had also on-
rated injuriously in another respect. The friends of a
idea
stoner so circumstanced could not entertain tete same
of the severity cf his punishment, as if he bad
obef enc.r,:r;
navel to a great distaece, with 15,000 milest
rolling between them. It appeared to him .ft
obf
jects
cf could avoid suffering consistently with the 1: they
of eieterring from crime, and reformingdrep criminals,of
ought to adopt the system. The
the moat
their regulations were prompted
stiecters, however, distiuctly showe
ee had bern too fre-
humane and benevolent motives, they
btoyhrst eventhwehienn-
tpaaksetf thel.l the fourth Report of the'
s case oafnthdesPuffeeeitiergaitinorythret
atillioattv
eidn
tco.
(I:t.,htelell
(r.!prisoners
friends
lq,reiemnntlayrsp.rodHucetiwvenuoldf
Milbank, and it
.appearediiiii;
inspectors of prisons in
the first year of h •
were v..nelslixeomndounethteaddtuhreinyg
onceineiit
and
once in every three months during the second
year of their confinement. He found that parties wee
punished in the Pcri:catiary for the slightest offences, or
for no offences at all. There was for instance a punish-
ment awarded for speaking, with intent to converse—a
crime, the nature of which he esttainly could not under-
stand. Let bile not, however, be misunderstood. He did
not deny that those regulations might be just, necessary
and expedient. He did not deny that the Magistrates bad
framed the regulations with humane intentions, and that
they had been sanctioned by the Noble Lord from similar