The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-13 00:00:00

EVENING EDITION.

side of the ,v-louse. That Hon. Member said that they were
an infatuated set, and that their infatuation arose front laxity
of principle. In that there was no appearance of the bigoted
religionist pealing the anathemas of the Church against those
who differed fr urn it.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Gisborne) had
given way, on the preceding evening, to the Right Hon. gen-
tleman the Secretary at War, to reply to some of the observa-
tions of the Hon. Member for Newark. There was one thing
which he (Mr. i'3iaborne) was not a little surprised at, ,The
late Mr. Macaulay had bees for many yea's the object of •the
foulest calumnies and the vilest slanders, which were 'awed
upon him by the West India body and its supporters. And it
was strange to hear the son of a member of that body pass a
splendid euloginu.% upon that man (the late Mr. Macau-
lay), who, because he:opposed slavery, had been so persecuted.
The Chancellor of tile Exchequer had stated to the House that
there was a great de fi. eiency in the revenue, which must bo
supplied, to both of wi.iich prepositions the house assented.
He also stated that it would be discreditable not to raise a
revenue equal to the expensessof the year ; and for this
,pur-
pose the proposition of the Government was brought forward ;
but to this the Noble Lord had brought forward what via,
called in legal proceedings' a demurrer, and which-meant that
the
.person making it would not meet his opponent upon the
merits of the case, but upon some technical points relating to
it. The Noble Lord (Lord Sandon) said that an equalisa-
tion of the duty on sugar would give encouragement to slavery,
and that, morever, there was no necessity for it, since there
would be an abundant supply. He said we should have
M
40,000 tons from the 'Mauritius, but the fact was that
we never had 30,000 tons in any two years.—( Hear, bear.)
On this point, also, the Noble Lord was at isrue with the
Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel), who had stat«d that we
must not expect an abundant supply of sugar from the West
Indies, until there had been a considerable increase in .the

negro population. With respect to the East Indier, he was
aware that a considerable quantity had been imported,. but this
had been solely occasioned by dearness of West India sugar.
He concurred so much with what had been said on the con-
nexion of slavery with the sugar duties, thnt he should say very
little on that subject. From the change ec feelite, which was
springing up on this subject in America, and other countries,
he certainly anticipated the period when slavery would be
abolished. He thought such a change would be more effectual
for this purpose than any measure could adopt. He had never
been able to observe that any efforts of this country
had had any effect worth mentioning in diminishing
the horrors of the slave trade, and such being the case he did
not feel justified in postponing, for the prospect of su uncertain
an event, the relaxation ,of the sugar duties to the relief of the
labouring classes. The Von. Member for Newark said the
Noble Lord was giving up ,a diplomatic advantage which the
sugar duties afforded him to obtain a treaty respecting, the
slave trade, but lie (Mr. Gisbe rne) thought such an arguMent
savoured somewhat of " laxity of principle.-"—( Hear, hear.)
He would only further detain the House by reading an opinion
delivered in the House of Commons on the •31st July, 1833,
and which was to the following effect There are many
questions on which the declaration of the King's Government
in their favour is decisive of their fate- 1 find this is so on' the
question of the Corn-laws. When the. King and the-Govern-
ment range themselves age inst any restriction, its fate is sealed,
for it is impossible to restore respect to. an authority so weak-
ened." These were the words of Sir R. Peel.—(Chee.rs• )
He (Mr. Gisborrie) therefore took the liberty of informing the
House, on the authority of Sir R. Peel, that the fate of ,the
Corn-laws andthe present duty on sugar was sealed.—( Cheers. )
Mr. SYDNEY HERBERT said that a considerable re'
tion of that evening had been devoted by Hon. Gentlemen on
the Ministerial side of the House to pouring out the phials of
their indignation against his Hon. Friend the Members for
Newark, bearing thereby, a reluctant tribute• to the pungenel
of the remarks of his Hon. Friend. He neod say nothing ra
defence of that Hon. Member, and his character was too-vireo
known on both sides of the douse to render it possible that
he should be injured by such attacks.—(Hear, hear.) With
regard to the general question, be would not
:discuss the
principle of free trade, which had been already adverted to
in speeches which would convince him, if he had not- been
already an advocate for that doctrine,—( Cheers from the Ni"
nisterial benches.) That principle had been defended with
an unnecessary ostentation by Hon. Gentlemen opposite'
They were not the originators of it, it had already
been developed by a Cabinet of which Mr. Huskisson was a
Member. The principle of free trade was one which nobody
could deny.—( Hear, hear.) The only question was as to the,
mode of its application—(Hear, hear)—and as to the time of
its application. Any child could understand so simple a, prirr,
ciple it it were to be taken as a uniform arithmetical rule, and If
it were not to be considered in its relation to the situatiewan°
the immediate interest of a.- great commercial country' like
this. If that were not the case sagacity and statcsmenehioPf
would be unnecessary in those who directed- the 'destinies
Great Britain, and any accountant in the City would make a*
good a Chancellor of the Exchequer .as the Right Hon .Gen-
tleman opposite. • The main Argument used on the other eide
of the House on the question then under discussion,.,wanthe;
which had been so ably stated that evening by the Noble tor°
the Member for Northumberland, namely, that we had, not &
sufficient supply of sugar from our own colonies, and that We
should consequently endeavour to obtain it from, other. quar-
ters. It appeayed, however, to him (Mr. Sydney. Herbert)
that there was now a prospect of an usually large supply free
the West Indies; and he also believed with the Noble• Lords
the Member for Northumberland, that the resources of those
colonies were capable of a still further development. The
truth was, that the Government seemed to have mistalten•the",
own interests for those Alf the country, and to:have overlooked
the people of England fot • the attainment of party; ends.. ,Theta
was a school of economists, of which. the Houeursiblo
Member for Kilkenny win., the chief, who appeared; to
' think that patriotism consiste.d in an unwillingness to Or
port the burdens of the States or to make any sacrifice
for the public good; but there were others who felt that
national honour should not be sacrificed to expediency, and
that Great Britain should not- now abandon the great expert"
ment she had engaged in for the suppression of slavery and • the
slave-trade. He believed that tbat. was the feeling of the Peo-
ple ple of England, and he had no apprehension but it would he
td the
adopted by their representatives by the decisic'n to.whi
deci.
flouso would come on the, question then before then, Lf this
aim which must for ages affect the name and reputation o
country.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. VERNON SMITH said that it appeared to
him that
Honourable Gentlemen opposite had not confined them-
selves to the resolution then before the House; and
though they were prepared to back it with their„,h
votes, they did not back it with their speeches.
-the
House Gentleman who - had last addraddressed ."
House had declared himself an advocate for free trade, thei
though with some qualification as to the application °I
principle ; and the Hon. Member had gone so far as to stem
that any child should assent to that doctrine, forgetting..
however, that two full-grown gentlemen, the Hon.i Member
for Antrim and the Hon. Baronet the Member for the filir
versity of Oxford, had last night professed their inability tot
understand the principle.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. 11.1003:ti
the Member for the University of Oxford had also-expreo_
his anxiety for the discouragement of the slave trade ; but, 0:
he (Mr. Vernon Smith) recollected, the Honourable Bareo.s.
had not advocated the same doctrines during dr'
agitation which led to the measure of Emancipation,,
although he should be loth to impute anything-like hypoerl*
tical pretext to the Hon. Member for Oxford, yet holunst'elair
that the straightforwardness of his speech was not to be Oh'
lowed out by the straightforwardness of his.vote, • for onejili!,"
ciple he ought not to vote for the resolution of the Noble kArw
which admitted that the necessity might arise for centintr
the evil which he was desirous of exterminating. -
V. Smith's) objection to the resolution of the Noble Lordeal
that the position it assumed did not contain a true stattnnenf
of the facts. The Noble Lord asserted that the people,'
England had made a great sacrifice, not for the purpose °t
effecting a great practical good, which had been effected, -but
for some other purpose, of which they now heard for the itrs„
time. He denied that they had made that sacrifice merelPt
the sake of example to other countries. He denied that the/
had made the sacrifice merely for the sake of sticking a feat her
in the cap of the mother country. They made the sacrifice
a valuable purpose, and, in the spirit of that stethill
sense which distinguished everything they dide
.for"'—
purpose of extinguishing- slavery in our own dominions.i
(Cheers.) That purpose had been effected, that barman )
been completed.—(lronical cheers from the Opposition.
Could any one doubt it who looked at the present state of thef
West Indies, and who compared the state of prosperitythose who had been formerly slaves in the country with .t!his
condition of the working classes in this ?-(Cheers.) I 14,
the view of showing the actual condition of the labollelctr,
classes in Jamaica he would quote from a despatch of -Sir
Charles Metcalfe, who said that the real difficulty which the
holders of property in that island felt was " the not :pose's-
ing sufficient inducements to get the working classes to he"
bour. The mass of the population Pone
means of comfortable subsistence without tabour: iht7l
may, to obtain articles of luxury, be induced to la-
bour, but they never can be reduced to it by absolute
necessity. It is considered no favour to give emPl°).-
ment, but on the other hand it is considered a great favour to
give labour." Such was the statement of Sir C. Metcalf: 14°
would ask any Hon. Gentleman to contrast that with the con-
dition of the labourers in his own immediate neighbourhood'
Did Gentlemen know of any district in the:kingdom in which
it was considered no favour to give employment, but a gr'ai
favour to give labour ? ( Cheers.) - That was the,,positol,l°
Jamaica. For that the people of thin! country .had xen,"e
great sacrifices. They had made those sacrifices to .fea".,,,k3
the people of Jamaica free and happy, but not to.plaeo•th,.',
in a position so infinitely above the middle and labolgif;
classes of this country. British Guiana was infinitelynoree;ol-
- According to the statement of Governor Light, in ter
the negroes were all eager to buy land ; they ,wee be
dressed than the generality of the peasantry of England 4
would not wear coarse cloth ; they slept on good beds, amt.'s'',
sessed side-boards, and other expensive articles of futatituti:ul
they drank champagne, were fond of salt. fish—( A laugh )._b
preferred plaintain and coo food, which was &paste loaned by
beating plaiutains in a mortar, and which he supposed must ,ho
the dinner of herbs to which his Right Hon. Friend the Mein-
ber for the Tower Hamlets had alluded the other "opting.
( Cheers and laughter)--in a speech to the principles of.-which
the Hon. Baronet the Member for Cambridge had- been.! so
eager to tender his support, that he had thought proper tur-
peat it to the House that evening.,-(Laughter.) . If socll
was the state of the negro population, he would ask the House
if the bargain had not been so far effective ? Did he complain
of that state ? On the contrary. he rejoiced at it ; but. lin
would say that it was not, fair to calico the people of this coati"
try for fresh taxes after the bargain had been se fully cote"
pleted.—( Cheers.) The question was merely one of a mercan"
tile nature—it was a quest'on of protection to the West liidia
interest, and not one of the slave trade or slavery—of protre-
tion granted to that interest at the time they were slave-owner'
—( Cheers)---although advantage was now taken. of the
question for another purpose, as he had already stated. If'
were a question of humanity, some of the words introduced
by the Noble Lord into his resolution ought to be ornla°":,
—(Cheers.) It was an attempt .to carry out
ancient prejudices under the cloak of philanthropy. It scass
monopoly assuming the disguise of philanthropy.—(Cheesi.i
He would not then go into the question of cotton, tobaccoe."
ot
ohs
dei
position
oeenassumed
intoslave-labourssum etdh this
pyerohouidsnutßcreiyiinh,ht
butiicihohne. waswF rforiueelnedldymtpheeerremiti
eta.
nt
de
bd,
forer bt
otbni
'rower Hamlets, that it was not a question of free bade at All'
because it could not be called a question of free trade or fair
competition when free labour was brought into competiti°l
with slave labour, He would admit it was not a question' °,
free trade, because there was still a great protection continne
to the West India interest—(Cheers)—but he would ask In'
Right Honourable Friend when the experiment of competition
between slave labour and free labour had ever been fairly trie of
madye,
When they talked about the sacrifices which the peopler,.
England had made—and they had made great sacritices---'°:
thefiee
seixi eail xtinction
been
n
of
slaver heby
the
West should
India
1 ke to
proprietors-
ewt
obrast
*eaf
selves ?—( Cheers. ) Whenever they came to that Housietbej
invat iably came to complain of some invasion of their monory
—(Cheers.) In 1807 they cried out that the abolition .°
the slave trade would be their destruction. They Mau lea.des
the same complaint when it was proposed to admit r, Est
sugar, and they had repeatel it when it was proposed that r-:70
India sugar should be admitted. Every alteration that had l'ca
proposed would, according to their own account, be atteir t
with their immediate ruin; yet liere they were, at the pre•Lea%
moment, in a state infinitely more prosperous than theluie
been befuie the emancipation.—( Hear, bear.) The NobTst
Lord, the Member for Liverpool, had, when the Noble 1,1)...
the Member for North Lancashire had brought forwarillsl
plan for emancipation, moved a resolution for giving the blond
India planters a larger mum than 2il millions, on the grLeti
of the immense losses they would have to incur. It hadttv,rest
calculated that, during the.apprcnticeship, the loss to the
India proprietors must amount to 150,0901. 'annually. PP