The Sun.
London, England, 1823-02-25 00:00:00

show 'an energy of mind thought Lord P. sometimes of a
weak mind ; has seen Lord P. in public and in private, and
has conversed with him on serious subjects, and on no occa-
sion has he displayed the least unsoundness of mind ; conceives
him capable of managing his ordinary concerns ; of acting in
all his concerns; thinks he would be capable of detecting ti e
erroneous management of others; all this under the advice
and guidance of others; he would not be capable of managing
his property in the same manner as other gentlemen ; neveresaw
his Lordship prevented drinking a glass of wine ; he usually
drank it deputed; would jocularly ask witness if he would
he was always excessively fond
joofinLhadimy
in company; his Lordship's conduct on these occasions was
Pinodrirtsm'nkinoutghltlisitClVternete;xtended to actions, of familiarity
conspicuous ; he has told witness that he was very partial in
attending funerals ; he would sometimes interrupt professional
singers by joining them in rather a loud and harsh key; these
witness thought to be instances of the weakness of his Lord-
ship's mind ; his Lordship said he had a particular team ; he
never told witness that he employed that team in carting dung;
met his Lordship at Hastings in the summer of 1818; did riot
observe any difference in his Lordship's manner of conversa-
tion ; never heard of any orders having been given to the ser
vants directing them not to obey his Lordship ; never saw Al-
der but once, and that was at Hastings ; he was walking with
Lord Portsmouth, who introduced him to witness; has not seen
his Lordship since.
Doctor Latham deposed to conversations he had had with
Lord Portsmouth. Lord P. said that Alder had been in bed
with him and his wife, and said it in such a manner as to leave
the impression that this had occurred more than once. This
subject led naturally to that of his Lordship's impotence,
which Lord Portmouth strony denied both with respect to
,
the late and the present Lady... His Lordship, in the course
of conversation said that he considered the child of which
Lady P. was delievered was his up to the period of the de.
livery, and stated afteswards that one of the Hansons had
knocked the child on the head by running up against Lady
P. He said that he intended to have a throne ; that he was
in Hampshire as a sort of King, being the oldest Earl in the
County, and was much looked up to; that he expected upon the
birth of the child to have some congratulations, and should re.-
ceive them seated on the throne. 'Witness suggested the possi-
bility that the child was not his, upon which he became confused,
rung the bell, and desired that Combe should conic to him; told
Mr. Coombe that he wished to see Mr. Skirrow, and asked
about the Commission, but Mr. C..declined answering, and re-
;ferret! Lord P. to Mr. Skirrow for information. Lord P. ap-
peared agitated, and witness went away. The opinion witness
formed upon his first visit was that Lord P. was a man of weak ,
mind, but that if kindly treated, 'and under the protection of per.
sons of feeling and Integrity, he would need no other protection,
and of course that there would be no necessity for this Com..
mission. Visited Lord P. the day after; saw Mr. Skirrow,
who called in consenuence of some order made by the Lord
Chancellor, which witness considered to have been violated;
Lord P. was much distressed from the idea of the commission,
cried much, and refused to see Doctor Ainsky for a time, but
afterwards admitted the Doctor; told witness a narrative of the
bad treatment he had received for four years ; that Alder and
Lady P. had frequently beaten him ; that he was often made to
walk when Alder and eliewere in the carriage ; that Alder and
Lady P. were, upon different occasions, in bed together, and slits
lie (Lord P.) was afraid to resent the indignities heaped upon
him; Lord P. then asked Doctor Ainsley very kindly about his
family, and dismissed both in the most gentlemanly manner;
witness's opinion upon the second visit was the same as that he
had entertained on the first ; he thought his Lordship's condi-
tion capable of being .much, improved by kind treatment;
visited his Lordship a third time, and found him in bad humour,
and apparently isitich:ievitated ;_ he told them he considered
those his enemies, anti the friends of the Hansons, whO were
issuing n commission oflunacy against him ; witness tried to con-
vince him of the contrary, and he became inure tranquil; thought
the state of his mind less favourable upon this than upon the for.
finer occasions; saw Lord P. the clay after; Sirll. H alford and Dr.
Baillie were with him when witness en tored,and Lord P, appeared
to be in a boisterous conversation with them;. his LmdAip told
witness not to enter at first, but afterwards admitted him and
Dr. Ainsley, lie seemed to labour under the same sort of de.
lusion as to the commission of lunacy ; spoke of women going
with child fifteen months ; spoke of punishing- the Hansons,
by hanging and imprisonment; and also spoke of the throne.
Witnesa concluded that upon this occasion Lord P. had given
evidence not only of a weak mind, but of an unsound mind,
and that lie wan not at all competent to manage his own affairs.
Witness and Dr. Ainsley reprobated the plan of practising tie-1
lusions upon the mind of Lord P.
Mr. BROUGHAM objected to the charge of practising delu-
sions ; no evidence ha been given which could lead to an ex-
planation on the subject.
The Co at missiosr ens said they had observed the witness's
use of the word, and requested an explanation.
Witness stated that he had inferred, from the directions
given by Mr. Coombe, that delusions were practised upon
lord P.
Mr. Sergeant PELL asked what those directions were ?
Mr. BROUGHAM objected to the'question, as the directions
were not given in Lord P.'s presence.
Mr. Serjeant PELL contended that the Doctor must be heard
in explanation, and it would be manifest injustice to all parties
to deny him the opportunity. It was most important to ascer..
taro whether any delusion had been practised.
Mr. Justice Bailey, who attended as a witness, and was press-
ed for time, was here called upon, and Doctor Latham with-
drew for a short time.
Mr. Justice Bailey stated, that previous to the Bth of July, he
had seen Lord I'. .0n the Bth of July his Lordship carne before
him upon a writ of Habeas Corpus ; saw Lord P. alone.—
During the whole of the interview Lord P.'s conduct was per,
fectly respectful and proper. Ailed him several questions,
with the view of ascertaining whether he was under constraint.
After a little conversation, told him he might go wherever he
thought fit. Lord P. betrayed nothing that witness observed
of unsoundness of mind. Did not examine him with the view
of ascertaining that fact, but confined himself to his duty.
Doctor Lathain's examination .was resumed—Lord P. ap-
peared to be very weak and imbecile on the two first interviews;
should consider him more than merely able to act as one of' the
lowest orders of society, but not at all able to maintain the dig-
nity in which ho ,was placed by his high birth ; thought hint capabl. of greater improvement than he had yet attained by
kind treatment. With the assistance of Stewards or others of
similar description, he would be able to manage his own
affairs:
Cross-examined by Mr. TYNDAL—Lord P. was certainly
above the rank of intellect of a mere idiot, and might be compe-
tent to act in a' low trade. His Lordship might he a good coachman—(a laugh) ;—witness meant to excite no feeling of
levity in stating his evidence. He used those words which he
thought best calculated to illustrate his opinions. Lord p,
could not act as the sound father of a family. He could teach
his children, if he had any, to read and write, and be could
also teach them arithmetic.
Mr. Tr arnat—Vi'hat ! arithmetic ? How do you know
that ?
Witness—He appeared to me to be qualified to do so. I
have seen his writing, and have seen him correct the Lord Chan-
eellor in figures—(A laugh) ;—we may infer from this, that he
could be able to instruct to a certain extent. I think his Lord.-
ship would be qualified to act in the humble occupation, and
that ho would make a good sound day labourers...4A laugh.)
' Mr. TYNDAL—Why do you think he would make a sound
labourer ?
Witness—Becauce he has the muscle for labour. Amongst the
lower orders minds like his would pass unnoticed. It is the rink
and consequence of the individual that draw the notice upon hie
defects. Lord P. wits, in the opinion of witness, quite impotent*
. and had-as much idea of eestual 'intercourse, as a peistin len% be-
tween the tropics had of ice, or a blind man of colour. His mind
was unsound, but he was not a lunatic, nor a madman, nor an
idiot. He (witness) should state in the best manner he could,
, his opinion of' the different sorts of defects, to which the mind
was subject. Madness he thought to be that condition of the
mind, which, though capable of receiving impressions could
not arrange or compile them in an uniform manner. Lunacy
was madness with intermissions. The lucid interval
,was
that condition of the mind, when the memory, -which, in the
case of lunacy was gone, became restored. To not one of
those did the case of I,ltrti Portsmouth belong. Neither
was he an idiot ; for idiotcy wan the incapability of receiving any
impression; his mind appeared to witness to be an imperfect
mina, capable of receiving impressions with more or less of
reason, will and judgment, a sort of twilight sufficient to enable
one to find' his way, provided there were no quagmires or
hedges, or ditches in the way ; did not believe that any person
`of sound and sensible mind could endure such indignities as
tlwse mentioned by Lord P. if the person could help it; sup-
posed Lord P. could not help it.
Re-examined—Was ordered by the Lord Chancellor to visit
Lord P. ; received directions from the Lord Chancellor on the
subject, that witness and three other Physiciims should have
constant access to Lord P. Considered An unnatural disposi-
tion to lust a proof of an unsound mind ; there were cases of
depraved appetite connected with soundness of mind. Consi-
dered that a man who performed the duties attached to a Mern-
bee of the Legislative Body properly
was in a state of soundness
of mind.—(A laugh.)
Ily. the Jury—Pound Lord P. under a delusion as to the pre-
sent inquiry; Mrs Coombe Interfersal with Dr. Ainsley when
the latter asked Lord P. a question. Did not exactly recollect
the question, but Dr. AinsTey'a conjecture on the subject. was
that a delusion had been practised upon Lord P.
Mr. Serjeant PELL stated to thiJury, that-he had the day
!wrote seen Lord Portsmouth, and that his Lordship had ex.
pressed a wish to be again examined by
the Jnry, in cease-