The Sun.
London, England, 1841-08-28 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, AUGUST 28, 1841.

that what did he do ? He then expouned his principles, and for bread and they received but stones. They came to that
'vindicated himself from being a wild theorist. He read a pe- House boasting of the triumph over a Ministry which would
tition, presented from the merchants of London, and read one alter the Corn-laws. For his own part he should observe that
passage to prove that his opinions were identified with theirs. he would only receive the Ministerial plan of an Bs. duty as an
This passage was, " Freedom from restraint is calculated to instalment of the debt of justice due to the people with a full
give extension to trade, and the best direction of the capital determination upon the first possible opportunity of getting rid
and industry of the country—that of a number of protective of all protection.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") The
duties. It might be proved that while all operated as a tax on question now at issue, was between them and tleepeople,
the community, few operated on behalf of the classesfrom whom whether they would impose an impost on food—whether they
they were instituted, and none to the extent of the loss occa- would increase their own rents by increasing the price of that
sior.ed to other classes--( Hear, hear)—that in thus declaring without which human existence could not be maintained.—( A
their opinion of the restrictive system, they had in view only . cry of " No, no," from the Opposition benches.) He said
those parts not connected with the public revenue, for so long yes, yes, and their continuance of the plan which led to star-
as., the public necessity existed, they could not expect so im- elation in spite of the evidence read by his Hon. Friend the
portant a branch to be given up, but it was against all protec- ! Member for Wolverhampton, showing an accumulation of dis-
lion not essential for our revenue they offered the petition which ease and death, as the result of dear wheat and scarcity of
they respectfully submitted to Parliament. "—(Cheers.) food proved the fact. Let them talk as they might please ;
Now he (Mr. Villiers) wished to call the attention of the let them boast of their triumph ; they should come round to
Noble Lord, the disciple of Mr. Huskisson; to what he said on the question between themselves aril the people of England--
the subject of taxation. He said on the principle of the i whether the people were to pay millions a year more than any
petition, he and the Government with which he acted, had other country for the price of food. Those laws had a double
proposed their recent measures. " But I say," said he, "as aspect of iniduity. While they increased the price of the
I always have said, that those- who, either by their speeches pour man's meal they checked the progress of manufacturing
in Parliament, or the exertions of their talents out of it, have industry, because if foreign grain were to be imported in ex-
contributed to bring the people of England to look with an eye change for manufactures, manufacturing prosperity would in-
of favour to the principles in the petition, have done them- t crease. They were therefore diminishing labour on the one
selves the greatest honor and the country especial benefit."— hand, and on the other they increased the price of food, and
(Cheers.) That was Mr. Huskisson's opinion of that petition, j then they came forward with lamentations on the national dis-
and he (Mr. V.) said that he had a right to identify him with tress. But the problem was how that distress was to be re-
the principle in that petition, and his opinions therefore were fleeted. Let them try a repeal of the laws affecting the consuinp.
against all protecting duties.—(Hear, hear.) There was no i tion of corn. He .srecollected a story of a Frenchman who
sense in comparing protection with prohibition. It might be 1 could not fatten his horse, he had tried spice, and every luxury,
limited, but still prohibition was one thing and protection I when somebody asked him did he ever try oats.—(Hear, hear,
another.--( Hear, hear.) But protection was faulty in princi- and laughter.) Now, he should say, let them give up all other
ple—(Cheers)—and he said that it would be sound po- experiments, and let them try bread for the poor.—( Hear,
Hey to abolish all restrictions not essential for revenue.— hear.) Let them give the poor man food, and then if
(Cheers.) He was afraid he was apt to dwell on this he did not thrive, he (Mr. CT.) would go to some ;quack
subject at too great length, but he wished to justify the support jdoctor for a remedy for the case.—( Hear, hear, and
he gave to the Noble Lord (Lord John Russell), and which, laughter.) Every body knew that one of the great mis-
until he heard an exposition of his policy from the Right Hon. takes made in the Reform Bill was that it augmented
Baronet (Sir Robert Peel) ;he must withhold from him. the county representation, while it narrowed the town consti-
He did not despair of the progress, of his' opinions.—(Hear, tuencies, and it was to that circumstance he attributed the as-
hear.) Hardly a day passed in which he] did; note hear cendancy of the party opposite, and the triumph at the elee-
of fresh convert s, while he never heard of one who had been tions. The majority opposite consisted almost entirely of Eno-
convinced changing his opinions. He did not in the least re- lish county Members, and he (Mr. O'Connell) complained
gret the change in the Government that was about to take then, as he had frequently complained before, that the Reform'
place, for he believed it would be highly important to this Ministry had disappointed the just exrectations of the people,
change of policy—that it was absolutely necessary 'for and that they had not worked out their own measure until all
the ultimate success of those measures. He knew I parties were fairly represented i:i that House. What he com-
that the Right Hon. Baronet's only chance of retaining power plained of in their policy was, that they had given an incontes-
was his converting the community.—( Cheers.) He was happy tible preference to the landed interest over the manufacturing
to observe, highlytapproving, as he did, of the dissolution, the and commercial interests of the dountry ; and accordingly the
attention that had been drawn to the subject. He was grati- I present Parliament insisted upon dear bread—they insisted
fled with the result—(Opposition cheers really was. lie upon a bread-tax. What other merit had the party opposite
had not come there to serve a party object. It was the inte- I but the advocacy of the existing Corn-laws in the eyes of the
rest he took in politics, and his wish to serve those who sen people of England? Let the two great parties who had governed
him there, that actuated him in what he did ; and looking this country for years be contrasted. Let them look to the Ad-
at the progress which the question had mare, he really was ministration of the presgnt Government during the last ten
satisfied.—(Hear.) It was only by constant discussion they years. Ministers had done much to arnelio:ate the condition
could advance their principles, and he was ready to act, as the of the country. They had increased its branches, and no one
Right Hon. Member for Renfrewshire had said, and to work could forget, now that they were parting with power, the great
day and night. to. elicit all the facts that bore upon the benefits they had conferred upon the British nation.—(hear,
question. He could net sit down without first drawing hear.) They had humanized the law. They had almost to-
the attention of the House and the country to the tally abolished the hideous and uncivilizing punishment of
extreme responsibility which would attach to thh death.—(llear, hear.) They had practically abolished that
Right Hon. Member for Tamworth, supposing him to be punishment in cases where it had frequently been applied be-
called upon to form a new Government. He would have fore, and they had, therefore, mitigated the law where miti-
power to do what he thought proper. lie (Mr. V.) believed gation was most required. Perhaps the same might be said of
from his moral influence with his party, he would be able to some of the Administrations that had preceded them. But
convert them to his own opinions if he should change them on other Administrations had merely abolished the punishment of
our commercial policy, and ke believed he would have power death in cases where it had never been applied. But the
in both branches of the Legislature to carry out what he might abolition of the punishment of death effected by the present
propose. Therefore, whatever advantage might follow from Ministry was practical, and had nearly brought to an end that
maintaining the present system or from changing it, on him horrible and un-Christian system. They had also wiped out
would he the entire responsibility or credit. If the I that stain on the criminal law which permitted Counsel
people went on in their present miserable condition— for the Crown to speak as often as they might
if commerce languished, if our foreign trade was checked think fit, while the Counsel for the prissier could
and impeded—he said the whole and entire responsibility would speak but once. That was a measure of great importance,
attach to the Right Hon. Baronet. He believed it would be although it had been shorn of part of its utility in the House
in his (Sir Robert Peel's) power to change the whole system ; of Lords, where a clause had been introduced, allowing two
but if he had determined to maintain the presesent system. he speeches to Counsel for the Crown, and only one to Counsel
ought to assign some reason why it should not be changed.— for the prisoner. The Ministry had still the credit of amelio-
(Cheers. ) rating the law in that respect, and they were therefore en-
Lord F. EGERTON said he could assure the House that titled so far to the gratitude of the country. They had done
whatever might be the opinions of other Members on his side more, they had increased the circulation of knowledge of every
of the House as to the course the debate ought to take, kind throughout thecountry,by diminishing the stamp duty upon
he had not presumed to object to the proceedings of any Gen- i newspapers, and periodical publications, from fourpence to one
tleman of the other side who had chosen to consider it his duty penny. It should not be forgotten that they had done those
to enter upon the consideration of the subjects which were in things. One of the great advantages of the change he had
his opinion not the immediate subject of debate before the mentioned, was that they had put an end to the temptation to
House. He had listened with deep and painful attention to j violate the law, by selling unstamped publications. They had
the speeches of those gentlemen immediately connected with formerly seen men summoned before Magistrates for diffusing
the districts in which so much distress prevailed, and which he knowledge, because the publication was uns:amped. Those
had witnessed, and if he did not. enter into the discussions as to i scenes were now at an end. He rejoiced to think, that
the cause of those evils and of their immediate remedy, he if the party opposite had triumphed over Ministers, they
trusted it would not he supposed those great and important could not deprive them of the glory of their past services.
questions were not fit subjects for the early consideration of the There was another measure of great public utility to which he
House. He was of opinion that in the present state of the civi- wished to adver t—he meant the penny postage.—( Hear, hear )
h zed world, not only in that House but in every deliberative assem- The reduction of the newspaper stamp duty had allowed the
bly, the intelligence and acuteness of statesmen and men of learn- circulation of information ; the reduction of the postage duty
ing should be pararnountly called to the consideration of the I had allowed the circulation of the affections. It tended to
great problem, which certainly pressed the more society i maintain the ties between the absent parent and his child ; it
advanced, namely, how by human means they could at once bound brother to brother in distant parts of the world ; and,
increase and distribute the produce of the earth, so as to for the first time, it brought within the reach of the poorest
meet the exigencies and peculiar circumstances, especially of a person a mode of communication formerly confined to the
country which possessed a large manufacturing population.— . rich. Under the former system, a labourer paid one-third of
( Hear, hear.) To this subject far be it from him, even on his week's earniogs, and he was thus placed in painful contrast
that occasion, to object ; but he must fairly say, that he did with the man of fortune, who did not pay a thousandth part of
not think its discussion, on such an occasion as the present, his weekly revenuefor communicating withhisfamilyandsriends.
when the Government of the country was in so anomalous and He would not dwell upon the advantages which they had con-
singular a condition, would tend to promote their object.— ferred upon trade and commerce by their measures for break-
(Cheers.) He could assure the House that he would nut pro- ing up the East India monopoly, and opening the trade with
ceed to the consideration of that which he considered to be China.—( Hear, hear.) They had done much more by their
the question before the House, in any tone of offensive destruction of religious monopolies—(Cheers)—by permitting
triumph or recrimination. He considered that he should only the Baptists, and Quakers, and all other Dissenters to perform
perform his duty to those constituents who sent him 'there, their religious ceremonies without the intervention of ptiest- ,
and consult their feelings and wishes, in giving his support'to ihood, whose mission they deified.—(Cheers.) In Ireland
the amendment proposed to the Address. He was aware that they had stricken off one-fourth of the entire burden of tithes.
objections had been made to the course adopted, and that it (Hear, hear.) They would have done more, if the Opposi-
had been said by the Hon. Members for Leeds lion now coming into office would have allowed them.—( Hear,
and Finsbury, that they had been guilty of disrespect hear.) In giving up the Appropriation Clause, they did no
to her Majesty in adopting it. But on former occasions he had more than he would have advised, when they found that it
heard long discussions on the Address when he set on the other was impossible to carry with it any other good
side of the House, ar.d when Hon. Gentlemen opposite who which their measure contained. —( Hear, hear.) That
then sat on his side claimed the privilege of dealing with his was not the whole of their claims. In England they had abo-
A:ajesty's speech as the speech of his Majesty's Ministers. It lished 115 rotten boroughs, in Ireland they abolished 15.
was only as such it could he dealt with.—(Cheers.) But the (Cheers.) When he compared their policy in Ireland with
President of the Board of Trade had objected to the course that of the party which was about to succeed them, the con-
pursued in moving a vote of want of confidence, and had said tract was painful.—('Cheers.) 'They had effected the emanei-
that they should in the first instance explain all they meant to patio,' of 800,000 slaves.—(Great cheering.) Mr, Pitt in the
do, supposing they came into power. In his (Lord F. E.'s ) height of his power attempted to effect that object, and always
opinion, his Right Hon. Friend had acted wisely in not enter- , failed.—( Hear, hearse`si'd The Wtim, the same party which
ing upon such an explanation. The Chancellor of the Exchequer was now in office, eV try eige..., months in power, and in
said they were about to perform the play of Hamlet, omitting that time they sudgeWed in abolishiug the slave trade—
the principle character. But he told the Chancellor 'of the (Cheers)—and tlidy 1. taught all the nations of the earth
Exchequer that they did not wish to perform the play at all . that slavery could be abolished with safety. —( Hear, bear. )
until they had got a company properly arranged.—(Cheers.) ' He would not dwell upon their conduct in Ireland. It was
He did know how anybody knew that his Bight Hon. Friend : enough to say that they had given that country nearly ten years
was to address the House as a Minister of the Crown. How of complete repose. (Cheers.) They selected men for office,
did they know it ? If they knew it, it would be because for not on account of their religion, but of their merits.—( Hear. )
ten years past every question that came before the House had He thanked them, in the name of Ireland, for the good they
been so ably dealt with by the Right Hon. Baronet—nihil had done, and more for the good which hey would have done,
legebatquod non excerperet—k Hear)—and consequently the opi- if the party opposite had not prevented them.—( Great cheer-
nion prevailed that if Ministers resigned, his Right Honourable ing-) He would not stop to complain of their not doing what
Friend would be at the head of their successors. If he they might have done. He would not now complain of their
might presume to advise a contingent minute of the Crown ; not having extended the franchise to the operatives, who, in
anti, if his Right Hon. Friend would tike his advice, it would spite of all that could be done by the ether side of the House,
be to avoid any intimation of the speech he was about to make, must soon possess it. But, he would oak, when had the
which he thought would be unwiee and inexpedient.—( Hear, Tories been the advocates of freedom, civil or religious ? He
hear.) With respect to the grounds on which the House and told them only what the Whigs had done in ten years. He
the country had withdrawn its confidence from the Ministry, asked, what had the Gentlemen opposite done in the whole
he thought that if the Chancellor of the Exchequer was not century during which they held office ?—( Hear, hear.) They
satisfied with the five nights' discussion which had taken place, . opposed the freedom of the negroes as much as they could, and
he must he a very difficult Chancellor of the Exchequer to they only gave way in that case, as in the case of religious
satisfy.—(Cheers.) He did not believe the events that had liberty, when they were overborne by the sense of the country.
occurred, since the House came to a vote of no confidence, When they enlarged the liberty of the people of England,
had at all improved the condition of the Government, they diminished that of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) They dimi-
The Hon. Member for Finsbury had made, as he (Sir F. nished it so far that even the coming curse of Lord Stanley's
Egerton) could not help thinking, an unfair allusion to the ! Bill was not necessary to annihilate it.—(Cheers.) After
Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, in 1835. four years of arduous struggle, the people of Ireland obtiined
Now, in his (Sir F. Egerton's) opinion, the failure of the Corporation Reform, and what was it when they did get it ?
Right lion. Baronet upon that occasion was equivalent to Bristol, with a smaller population had a municipal constituency
the success of others under similar circumstances. And as it of 15,000, and Dublin (as we understood) had no more than
had been said of the Emperor Napoleon, that his career, when 5,000.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Evesham, in
dictating to kingdoms, redounded loss to his glory than his his compassion for the people of Ireland, heaven help us, la-
conduct during that last and disastrcus campaign in which he merited the agitation which distracted them.—( A laugh- )
vainly contended against Europe in arms; so w..s there nothing Why, that agitation was the real grievance, if the Hon. Mem-
in the career of the Right Hon. Baronet which inflected ber for Evesham had only the wit to perceive it.—(Cheers and
upon him more credit than his conduct during hid unsuccessful laughter.) No one regretted the agitation or the causes of it
Administration in 18:35.—(Opposition Cheers.) He( LordF.E.) more than he did.—(Hear, hear, hear.) If there were
doubted, however, whether posterity would pronounce the same •in that House that English spirit which, he (eared, had '
verdict upon the present proceedings of the Noble Lord, the almost evaporated ; what would their feelings be if
leader of that House. For his part, he could not but think Ireland abridged their rights by one-third ?—(Hear, hear.)
that the conduct of the Noble Lord in dissolving the last Par- , If' they said they would net submit to it., he claimed their sym-
liament was either a miscalculation or a fault. He thought I rattly, and told them that the people of Ireland would not en-
that that course was sufficient to justify the want of confidence dure the wrong.—(Cheers.) When the liberties of the people
of the country in the judgment, if not in the principle, of the ! of England were assailed, they struck off the head of one .
Noble Lord.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble
:Lord no doubt had , monarch, and they drove another an exile and a beggar
been anxious to weed the manufacturing districts of some ob- through the nations of Europe. Who were the party that sup-
noxious plants. But the Noble Lord was not probably aware ported the tyrants? Why the Tories.—( Hear, hear.) Who
that in that operation he might mow down some of the flowers opposed the House of Hanover as long as it was friendly to
of his own flock. The people of England had thought in some I the people ?—(Cheers.) Who had exhibited the strongest
cases that neither wealth nor accomplishment, nor spotless private symptoms of disloyalty during the present reign ?—( Tremen-
character, nor unimpeachable public integrity could atone for I dous cheering.) The Tories.—(Renewed cheering.) What
a warm adherence to the opinion,s and a constant participation odious calumnies, what base slanders have they not propagated?
in the measures of the Noble Lord. In one instance, at least, —(Cheers.) It might have been thought that the youth of
which he could name, the claims of high rank and wealth, and her Majesty, if not her station, would have engaged their sym-
the still higher claims of unsullied character and virtue, had patties and disarmed their malice.—(Cheers, responded to
failed to receive the suffrages of a great constituency.—( Hear, by cries of " oh, oh," and laughter from the Tory benches.)
hear.) But that Noble Lord, he should add, had yielded to What ! did they deny it? Why, when royalty was toasted
his fall with a grace and dignity which extorted the applause of at their feasts, did they not insult her ?—( Cheers.) Did
his very enemies, and by the touching eloquence of his parting they not make a marked preference of another member of
accents had diminished that shout of triumph which might he the Royal Family? Be learned from the printed reports of
natural, in the hour of victory, over an ordieary or a vulgar their festivals, that when the health of the Queen had been
foe.—(Cheers.) What conclusion could he draw from cases toasted with cold ceremony, the health of another lady was
such as this? His conclusion was, that if he concurred with his given with three times three and the accompaniment of the
Hon. Friend in the amendment he had moved to the Address .Kentish fire.—(Cheers.) It certainly made him open his
he would be only doing that which would meet the command, eyes with astonishment, that the people of England could
and he would add the wishes of those who had sent him to that be so blind as
_they had shown themselves at the late election.

House—who had sent him there strong, not in his own strength
but in the approbation of the public. The victory he had
obtained was not, he was aware attributable, to any merit of
his own in triumphing over the state of an agitation, which was not
always moderate in its tone or very scrupulous in its statt ments of
facts. In his success he felt no undue feeling of triumph,
and he alluded to it only because it afforded an instance 01
what he considered public opinion in the country upon the
subject then before the House.—( Cheers. )
Mr. O'CONNELL rose and said, that the Noble Lord who
had just sat down had distinctly stated that it was beyond
all controversy that deep distress prevailed among the manu-
facturing community.—( Hear, hear.) Whether the pleasant-
ries which the Noble Lord mixed up with his refusal to
discuss the questions connected with that distress,
were well placed, it was not for him ( Mr. 0. Connell)
to decide. The subject itself was one of the deepest:importance.
and he claimed that deference for his own opinions upon the
subject of the Corn-laws, that he stood there as the Repre-
sentative of two of the largest agricultural constituencies in
the country.—( Hear.) He stood before them as the Repre-
sentative of more than one million of the inhabitants of Ire-
land. Two constituencies had returned him to that House
without canvas or solicitation—without his personal presence,
or without his having asked for a single vote, though at the
same time they were well aware of his opinions on the subject
of the Corn-laws. It was not his habit to conceal his opinions,
and no opinion of his was better known in the counties which
he represented than that he was totally opposed to the present
Coi u-law. On their testimony he would meet the statement
of the Hon. Member who sits for Waterford. It had been clearly
proved that the Irish people set no value upon the su;posed benefit
of the Corn-laws to agriculture. Indeed Ireland afforded an
illustration of the fallacy of some of the topics argued in sup-
port of those laws It had been said that the Corn-laws in-
creased the rate of wages, but if they could produce that effect
anywhere, it would surely have been in Ireland.—( Hear. )
What, however, hail been the case? Ireland had the full
beiletit of those laws, and yet her people had the lowest rate
of wages known in any part of the globe.—( Hear, hear.) Ire-
land was purely an a.Ticuitural country, for England had taken
care that she should' not he a manufacturing country. The
Corn-laws, faled in producing prosperity in Ireland. For his
part he could not hut consider it as a robbery of the operative
in order to insure high price to the landlord.—( Hear, hear.)
The law was merely an impost upon the bread of the
poor ; for, if it had not raised the price of bread
it would never have received their support. It was said that
the problem was a difficult one of determining the mode of
relieving the distresses of the working-classes. Rut in his opinion
nothing was clearer than that an increase in the quantity would be,
a true mode of alleviating that distress. They refused, however
to allow cheapness of p; ice, while they came forward with dolo-
rous lamentation upon the sufferings of the people. The people
would laugh at the mockery of sueb. rotestations, They asked

—(Cheersandlaughter.) But how was the returns obtained? There
never was such gross bribery practised since the world began.—
(Cheers andlaughter. ) He would take the Tory organ, the Tiracs
(Great laughter)—which made no question of the bribery.—
(Hear, hear.) It was no doubt false that the country was
gained over by 300,0001., and that the Times was a liar of the
first magnitude.—(Loud cheering and laughter.) They had
gained a triumph over the Irish people in the elections, and (as
we understood) their hatred was gratified.—(Much interrup-
tion.) Est humani generis odisse quern losere.—(Cheering.)
He wished them joy of their majority ; but they would never
have gained it if they had not engaged the sordid selfishness of
the landed interest.—(Cheers, and " Oh, oh.") The farmers
were persuaded that the repeal of the Corn-laws would be their
ruin.—(Opposition cheers.) They might cheer ; for there they
stood, the avowed enemies of civil and religious and commercial
freedom.—(Laughter and cheers.) They hated and perse-
cuted, solely for her religion, Ireland, which was their right
arm in war, and the greatest source of their prosperity in the
time of peace. The religion of II eland was the only pretence
for the injustice, and he defied them to place it upon any other
ground.—(Cheers.) Well, they were now going to govern
Ireland.—(Laughter.) Well, who are they to have ?
( Renewed laughter.) Were they to have the Orange flag
again waving over the head of the Lord Lieutenant.—(Cheers
from the Liberal Members, and counter-cheering from
the' orks. ) '1 he man who waved that flag was punished for
it in three years after sards, for the Right Hon. Baronet oppo-
site called him in that House a vagabond—( Great laughter).—
but the vagabond got a place, and he kept it from that day to
this.—( Hear, hear, hear.) The present Government had
certainly no: clone much for Ireland. But they had
kept it in tranquillity.—(lmmense cheering on both sides of
the House.) Gentlemen might cheer and scoff; but their
derision cheers would have no effect, but to irritate his spirit.—
( Great cheers.) How did they obtain their majority? liy
all vile means, by bribery, corruption, intimidation, fraud,
at the last assizes there were more criminal cases in
delusion, and lies.—(Cheers.) Hae tibi fuerunt arses.._
( Cheers.) But what had been the result of the Whig Goyern-
mem.Why,Liverpool than in ail Ireland, and the convictions there were
double those la hick took place in all Ireland.--( Great (beets. )
What were they now going to do? They were going to take
into office the Noble Lord, of whom it was said that his popu-
larityin this country and his influence in this House were
owing to his avowed hatred of Ireland and of the Irish people.
Ireland was determined to right her wrongs, and vindicate
her claims to equality.—(Hear, hear.) When he thought of
the sacrifices they made to purify the stream of justice there.—
( oh)—he gave them the greatest credit. Could any
person suppose for a moment that he would vote for a Minis-
try that would not go so far for so high and holy a purpose—one I
which was not carried into effect by any Administration that
ever preceded them. What would they doe. Would they re-
ot9re the *heriff of Fermanagh ?--(Loud cheera) ~No, they
, .