The Sun.
London, England, 1841-08-27 00:00:00

tion of the late Parliament, to move for papers which
would have shown the real state of the finances of the
country ; but though those papers had been moved for
in time to be printed and presented to the late
Parliament, they had not been laid upon the
table of the House until the day before yester-
day.(Hear, hear, from the Opposition benches.) So
far, then, as the ignorance of the electors was concerned,
the fault did not lie with them. He would next proceed
to certain statements of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and
although he had not come forward, to speak upon the
subject, he trusted he could show that those statements
were in many respects fallacious. The first point to
which the Right Honourable Gentleman referred,
was the amount of the national expense at cer-
tain periods, comparing preceding Administrations
with his own. The Right lion. Gentleman had taken
the average expenditure of five years, including . three
years of the administration of the Duke of Wellington,
and he stated that the expenditure exceeded that of the
last five years. Now, it had been said, that the taking
of average was a fallacious mode of judging the effects
of the Corn-laws ; and the same remark applied to mat-
ters of finance. The rate of the expenditure during the
five years ending with the Duke of Wellington's adminis-
tration, was very high during the first of those years, and
very low during the last. A decrease, therefore, had
been gradually going on during those five years ; while
the average had constantly increased during the last
five years.—(Opposition cheers.) In his (Mr. Goul-
burn's) opinion a wise system of financial economy
would consist in a gradual seduction of the pub-
lic expendiure, and he thought, therefore, that
the House would see that the averages in
question afforded the Right Honourable Gentleman
but little ground for triumph.—(Hear.) But his com-
plaints against the Government had never been confined
to mere questions of expenditure. He admitted that
there were cases in which an increase of expenditure
was inevitable ; but his complaint against the present
Ministry was that they had uniformly failed to keep the
income of the country on a footiug to meet the na-
tional wants.—(Hear.) If they increased their expendi-
ture without at the same time increasing their in-
come, their system was ruinous, and became a
subject. of great reproach.—(Cries of " Hear.")
There never had been a budgetbrought forward in which
he had not raised his voice against such a course as ne-
cessarily leading to difficulty, if not to ruin—in which he
had not protested against the Government for not pro-
vidingfor the increase in expenditure by an increase in
income.—(Cheers.) Then came the statement of the
Right Hon. Gentleman respecting the manner in which
he had dealt with the debt, and he thought that that
statement must have struck every one who heard it as
one of the most wonderful instances of financial power
ever exhibited. If the Right Hon. Gentlemen were
really able to effect the achievements of which he had
boasted, so far from wishing to remove him from his sta-
tion, the House ought to vote that he should be con-
tinued in his office for ever.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.)
The Right Hon. Gentleman had said that if they took the
amount of the debt of the country in 1830, and the
amount of the debt in 1840, and excluded from the ac-
count the amount of the • West India loan, they would
find that during those ten years the amount of the debt
was reduced by thirteen millions; and the Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman went on to say that if the
amount of the debt in 1835 were compared with
the amount of the debt in 1840, it would be found
that of that 13 millions, seven millions had been reduced
within the latter period. Now, this certainly exhibited
one of the most miraculous efforts of finance on record.
The exhibitions of Katterfelto and of the Wizard of the
North were nothing equal to it.—(A laugh.) They,
indeed, shut up an empty pot, and pulled out a pan-
cake ; but the Right Hon. Gentlemen shut up an empty
chest, and pulled out 13 millions.—(Cheers and laughter.)
Now, the only means of paying off debt must be from
the surplus in the revenue ; and during some of those
years there was a surplus of 7,400,0001., while during
others there was a deficiency of 4,000,000/., leaving
a net surplus of 3,400,000/., with which the
Chancellor of the Exchequer said that he had paid off
13 millions of debt.—(Cheers and laughter.) Now how
did the Right Hon. Gentleman make that out ? When
he (Mr. Goulburn) was Chancellor of the Exchequer he
had brought into Parliament an Act empowering the
Commissioners of the National Debt to cancel a portion
of the debt by granting annuities terminable at the end
of a term of years. The effect was to create a sinking
fund, diminishing the capital while increasing the annual
charge. The Hon. Gentleman said he had those an-
nuities back. Now, suppose those annuities had been
granted for 12 years, the Right Hon. Gentleman took
the value of the annuities at 12 years' purchase, and
put them on his (Mr. Goulburn's) side of the ac-
count 'and thus increased it by that additional
change, while he put two years' purchase only
on his own, and having done that, the Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman exclaimed, see to what an amount
I have reduced the national debt ; but if that course
were adopted whoever might succeed the Right Hon.
Gentleman would be able to boast that he had still
further reduced the debt ; or if the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman himself were to continue in office, and sit still,
and do nothing, he would still be able to make the
same appeal to the House, and refer to the reduction
of the debt by such means as a proof of his wonder-
ful sagacity.—(Cheers and laughter.) The Right Hon.
Gentleman next alluded to the savings' banks, and he
was glad that had done so, for he (Mr. Goulburn)
was as anxious as the Chancellor of the Exchequer could
be to disabuse the public mind of any supposition that
the operations of the Right Hon. Gentleman were calcu-
lated
ill.4:3PitilheOste tA.Z7.4ifeo:ile"ar.)
Nothing could be more erroneous than any supposition of
that sort, and however much' he might have objected to
the operation of the. Right Hon. Gentleman, that had
never been the_ ground on which he had objected to
them. His objection was to the principle of not keeping
the income equal to the expenditure. And the Chancel-
lor of the Exchequer, having the power by these means
of creating permanent debt, without the knowledge or
controul of Parliament—(Hear, hear)—he would admit
that, as the law stood, the Right Hon. Gentleman had
the power of acting as he had done. But it was never
the intention of the law to confer that power. The law
empowered! the Commissioners of savings' banks to in-
vest their money in any securities they might deem most
eligible. They had the power of selling Exchequer
Bills, or of cancelling them, and calling on the Govern-
ment to give them new stock, and this power had been
given them with a view ofmeeting the exigencies of Exche-
quer Bills falling and being necessary to be funded, but not
with a view of enabling the Government arbitrarily to
make a loan without the knowledge of Parliament. That
was the operation which had taken place, and the
saving banks had had new bonded stock in exchange
for Exchequer Bills. He objected to that operation as a
step taken for obtaining money without the knowledge
of Parliament, but was as anxious as the Right Hon.
Gentleman to disabuse the public mind as to the possi-
bility of loss to the depositors. The Financial Com-
mittee had recommended that Government should al-
ways endeavour to procure an annual surplus of
three millions, and that nothing should be
applied towards the redemption of the debt, which
was not an actual surplus over expenditure.—(Hear.)
The reason of this was, because they felt convinced that
if an endeavour was not made to secure a surplus of
three millions, no surplus whatever could be realised
after the deductions had been made for en unexpected'
contingency. During the three years of the Duke of
Wellington's Administration, he would admit that the
surplus was only eight millions, but during the last five
years there had been a deficiency of six millions ; thus
showing the contrast between the two systems ; the
one realizing the perpetually increasing surplus, and
the other a perpetually 'increasing deficiency.—(Hear,
hear.) It was perfectly true the year after
they had quitted office, the revenue had not
realised what he had anticipated when he made that
great reduction of taxation in the preceding year. This
was :partly owing to the Government having been.
broken up before he had had an opportunity of proposing
those taxes, on which he had relied for part of his
supplies. But in the succeeding year there had been a
surplus of 700,000/., which would have gone on in-
creasing had it not been for the reductions in taxation
which it had then been thought fit to make. His ob-
jection to the Ministry was not that they had increased
the expenditure, but that they had neglected to increase
the income at the same time—that every time they had
increased expenditure they had repeated taxes. He
did not think it necessary to enter further into discus-
sion. If he had made himself intelligible to the
House, he had shown, first, that the system of averages,
on which the Right Hon. Gentleman founded his claim
to the confidence of that House, was not a just one ;
secondly, that the claim of the Right lion. Gentleman to
have reduced thirteen millions of debt, while he had
only three millions of surplus to do it with, was one that
was utterly inadmissible ; and, further, that, as regarded
the reduction of annuities, the Right Hon. Gentleman
was entitled to no credit whatever for that course. If
this was all the Right Hon. Gentleman could state as
a reason why, at the last moment, the House should
repose confidence in him—for let it be recallected that
Hon. Gentlemen were not now on their trial,—that had
taken place in the last Parliament—(Cheers)—and the
jury had found them guilty.—(Hear, and cheers.) .
And now they had appealed to the higher Court,
the constituency of the country, which had confirmed
the verdict. They now: stood there for the judgment
which Parliament felt disposed to pass upon them.-
-(Cheers.) If this was the only case on which they
could rest their appeal for renewed confidence, he
would leave it to the House to determine on which side
the question should be. decided.—(Cheers.)
Mr. WAKLEY said, that after listening to the state-
ments, the arguments, and the illustrations of the Right
Hon. Gentleman who had immediately preceded hut',
any one would suppose that there was no country. so al%
governed as England, and that where so much virtue, is
much industry, and so much patience was exhibited
n
the management of public affairs, it was impossible t_te.; an
new doctor could be required.—(Laughter.) t
however, it appeared that the public accountsv
and so
in a very strange state, so confused, so involved,uialit Iliad
Gentleman were they, that while One
that there mr
were kept
Gentleman made it appear from them
11, but a loss
that there had been actually no saving at "
been a savine• of four millions, another made it appear
to the country—(Cheers)—and John, Bull endured alit
2he people were in
this with calinness.—(Hear, hear.)
Ile could not comprehend how
a state of misery, and Hon. Gentlemen cared not for
their sufferines.—(Hear hear.) The people were hungry,
and the 'House cheered.
the State accounts were kept, and he trusted that the
Right Honourable Baronet, the moment affairs came
into his hands, would turn his intelligent eye to
those accounts and try to remedy the
.anomaly.
At all events, it appeared from the manner in which the
public accounts were.kept, that they were entitled to no
confidence. A vast deal had been said as to the want of
confidence in Ministers. They had lost none of his con-
fidence, for a very simple reason, because they had never
possessed it. He had taken them as his lion. Friend
the Member for Bath' had done, because he could not
get a better. He bad supported them* because -a better