The Sun.
London, England, 1847-01-26 00:00:00

He would ask wealthy London—he would ask England?
There could be but one answer. It was the original
tyranny of England which produced it. He said it was
England which produced it, and he had no hesitation in
saying that England should relieve it. He called
upon their Lordships to relieve them. If 22,000
paupers were relieved by the rate-payers of Liver-
pool in one day, what an awful disclosure did
it make of the calamity which prevailed, and
of the necessity which existed for alleviating it.
With regard to the reclamation of waste land, that
was, in his opinion, the kind of work precisely from
which they ought most cautiously to abstain from all
interference. He very much feared that such an under-
taking on the part of Government would not be pro-
ductive of the anticipated benefit, as he believed that
Government were not the parties who could most effec-
tively carry out such a measure. He thought the
greatest possible difficulty would ensue if they adopted
this measure, and he took that opportunity of inti-
mating to them his apprehensions regarding it. He had
another view to which he wished to call their Lordships'
attention before he sat down. It might be an eidolum
in his own mind, but he thought that the entire system
of railway management should be in the hands of the
Government. Sure he was, however, that in Ireland, if
Government would undertake the construction of rail-
ways such a course would be of the greatest possible ad-
vantage. If they did undertake the construction of
railways, a better system of railways would be intro-
duced, than if the conflicting claims, views, and interests
of private parties were interwoven with them, and there
would be besides a more beneficial effect upon the em-
ployment of labour. It was by the operation of such a
system of railway construction that they could hope to
change the character, position, and location of the rural
population of Ireland, and it was for this reason that
he most earnestly directed their Lordships' attention to
the subject.
The Earl of MOUNTCASHEL said he was not at
that late period of the night going to test their Lord-
ship's patience by entering in detail into the history of
Ireland—(A laugh)—but one thing that he should
infer from this history was, that ever since Ireland had
been under the yoke of England—at all events up to the
time of the union—the influence of the former country
had been exerted to crush the trade and commerce of
Ireland. The truth of this assertion was shown by the
provisions of the Act of the 6th of George 1., the
obnoxious influence of which was not repealed
until the middle of the reign of George 111
He had been informed, and in fact had seen in one
instance, that where a few old cabbage leaves were
thrown into the mud they were eagerly seized by the
starving wretches who 'were loitering about. It was a
fact that six out of eight labourers in Ireland were in
a state of destitution, and was it possible for the Irish
proprietors to support that mass of misery? They could
not. According to the valuation of Mr. Griffiths, the
rental of Ireland was 12.715,0004 per annum, and was
now about 13,000,0004 -per annum in round numbers.
The amount of bonds, -mortgages, &c., on landed pro-
perty in Ireland, was about eight years' purchase, or
100,000,0001., and that at 15 per cent. made 5,000,0001.,
and the law expenses and other incidental charges,
besides children's fortunes in marriage settlements, would
make, beside a total including the interest, 10,415,0001.,
leaving the balance of 13,000,000/. for the support of all
this distress. Was it possible, with less than three mil
lions per annum, to support a starving population and
themselves also ? The average cost of maintaining a
pauper was ls. 6d. per week, and that, taking the popu-
lation of Ireland— at least all the poor—would give
12,000,0004 per annum, to be paid, out of less than three
millions per annum. The landlords were also placed in
a very bad position in consequence of the liability of
the tenants to pay up their rents ; and therefore it
would be only an act of justice to prevent the fore-
closure of tfie mortgages for a certain term—for
a term of three years—so as to enable them to
have some chance of bettering themselves.—(Hear, hear.)
The present system of letting land was such, that a
farm which forty years ago was in the possession of one
person, was now divided among forty, and in many
cases no rent whatever could be obtained. The fourth
of the produce of the land was that which ought to go
for rent, but it seldom happened, that they realised so
much. The people of Ireland married young, and got
large families, and this was the cause of the super-
abundant , population of that country. There were
690,000 some odd hundred farms inTralands 'these,
310,000 were under five acres in extent, 152,000 be-
tween five and ten acres, 79,000 not exceeding thirty
acres, and but 47,000 exceeded the latter extent. Such
was the minute divisions of farms which had taken
place. He was confident that if something was not
done this year, in finding seed potatoes and oats, there
would be no crop next year, and matters would be worse
than they were at present.. The Government ought to
take this question into its most serious consideration.
Having stated thus much, he would reserve what further
he had to say till a future occasion.
The Marquis of WESTMEATH did not intend say-
ing much now, as a future opportunity would be given
of discussing the question. Still he bad a remark or
two to make on the address of the Noble Marquis (the
Marquis of Lansdowne). The Noble Marquis said the
Government intended to advance sums of money as
loans to the landlords to improve their estates, but he
(the Marquis of Westmeath) did not think many of
them could take advantage of that, unless different
arrangements were made respecting its application.
At present the intention of the best disposed
landowner could be defeated by any litigious person.
The Noble and Learned- Lord on the Woolsack would
bear him out in saying. that if an injunction were applied
for to restrain waste land, it would at once be granted,
but in many instances the suing out of an injunction
, would eat up the fee simple of an estate. He was before
Lord Devon's Commission in 1844, and he stated there
that if a new mode of occupation was not struck out by
the law, the whole country would, in a period of less than
five years, be falling back on the State to feed them. He
considered that if his suggestions had been then attended
to, the calamities which they had been subjected to
would not have had such frightful results. He had held
a conference with some of the legal authorities upon the
subject. There were present the Lord Chancellor, Sir
E. Sugden, Judge Jackson, and Mr. Blackburne ; the
latter suggested that the writ of injunction should be
reduced to merely a nominal expense ; they all agreed
with him, and he was sure no one could prove that he
was in the wrong ; but Mr. Blackburne was made
Master of the Rolls, and there the matter ended.—
(Laughter.) He thanked the House for their attention,
but he could not refrain from saying as much as he did.
Earl GREY said that he was sorry to prolong this
discussion, and he would only do so for a short time,
more especially at that hour, when the House had been
reduced to such a small number; but as some remarks
had been made in the course of the debate to which
he felt it imperative to reply, he trusted they would
allow him their attention for the few moments he would
trespass upon their indulgence. He alluded to what
was very improperly called the Labour-rate Act. He
thought that a great majority of Noble Lords had pro
nouncd the strongest sentence of condemnation on that
Act, and certainly, by the last of these Noble Lords,
the impression might have been conveyed of a grave
censure on her Majesty's Government for want 01 com-
mon foresight and providence in this matter. Now he
could not help thinking that if they looked to the
period when this Act was passed, they would
come to the conclusion that the implied censure
On her Majestys Government was undeserved. The
Noble and Learned Lord said that this Act was passed
in a great hurry after the-Isth August, and he concluded
that the advanced period of the session was proof suffi-
cient that the measure had been ill-digested. That
measure was a weasure authorising presentment of
public works precisely of ~the same nature as the pre-
vious Act. Half the money was to .be advanced from
local sources, and half from the British Treasury. This
was brought in last January, and large use was made of
these presentments for public works, and upwards of
1,300,0004 was given for these works. So great were these
works felt to be of advantage, that great complaints
were made from districts where those works were not
begun. Buta.this was a misapplication of the fund, for
the money was granted for 'the relief of distress; and for
relief of distress alone, and not for public
works at all ; and great abuses were com-
mitted in the employment of persons who ought
never to have been put upon these works at all.
Yet notwithstanding these abuses the object was fully
attained, and the people were so relieved that they were
better off in the summer of last year. There was the
testimony of the Catholic clergy that such was the case,
and there was more money paid into the savings' banks
than for years before. He was credibly informed, that
up to the middle of August the prospects of the potato
crop were of the brightest character, but all at once the
blight seemed to come over the whole of the crop. Was
it, then, unreasonable that her Majesty's Government
should pass a measure to meet the evil? They did so.
They renewed the measure of the previous year, but
they obviated the evil which had formerly been
endured. It was found that the abuse of the
presentments for public works had been occa-
sioned by the desire to obtain roads where they were
wanted. The delay in the consideration of the mea-
sures for Ireland, by the protracted debates on the com-
mercial- policy of the country, threw these measures
late, but they were passed, and those abuses were ob-
viated. It should be recollected, that the great object
of this Bill was not the formation of public works, but
the relief of distress. This was an important conside-
ration, and ought to kept carefully in view. Let it be
recollected how relief was obtained for distress in Eng-
land when it occurred in any of our great towns.
Why, when anything of this kind occurred in Norwich,
Nottingham, Sheffield, or Manchester, subscriptions
were raised, and the amount collected was distributed
through the agency of a committee ; and, doubt-
less, in some instances, unworthy objects obtained
the relief. Just something of this kind had occurred
in the Bill of last year. Abuses had unquestionably been
committed, but he contended that the abuse was not to
be ascribed to the Bill, but to the way in which it had
Noble Lord the Secre-
tary occurred, undoubtedly the
117)einn
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however, he must again insist to their
not the construc-
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for anylr
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nn
de
wwere
responsiblet ob e ch charged r
for the
twh ei t hmLiots
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Still,tthh aay tt
the object of that Bill was s
that none others but
it? Whose business was it to see
these works?
employed on
!hose who were destitute were
who had the management,
Why, it was the duty of. those
Itto
was
tot
sf publictae tha
t works,the Billou t thhaed reliefrafailed,
do,t
where the works were going
butthe general
whose
fault distress.
was
and resided in the districts
g towns, no men were
tingham and other
what had beeped e case in Ireland?
elsewhere. But
Won.hy,Winheenn
were engag in improving the
being carried on in
employment,Not-
and were allowed to go
land gave up that increasing the amount of
work on public works,
and of food for thdiminishinge
people. the supply
distress, and th the House and the country
employed on them who e 'could find employment
simwihlaor workiasrwere,
le It was necessary
peop • up these matters. In Augun
should know the truth u