The Sun.
London, England, 1841-08-31 00:00:00

BILL OF INDEMNITY.

The LORD CHANCELLOR said he considered it
his duty to inform the House that a certain Noble
Lord, after he had taken the oaths, had been guilty of
a most curious omission. He had omitted to subscribe
to the roll of Parliament, and by so doing had subjected
himself to certain penalties. He proposed therefore to
introduce a Bill to indemnify the Noble Lord from the
corEequences of the omission, and on Monday next he
should move that the standing orders)e suspended, in
order to enable the Bill to pass forthh.

ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.
On the motion of Viscount DUNCANNON their
Lordships then adjourned to Monday next.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Au;. 30.

The SPEAKER, haring taken the Chair a few minutes
Won- Four o'Clock, Sir S. Canning took the oaths
an, i his seat.

Mr. S. CRAWFORD presented a petition from
132 working people of the vicinity of Newcastle-upon-
Tyne, which stated, " That the Petitioners heard with
joy the declaration of Lord John Russell, that it was her
Most Gracious Majesty's intention to dissove her Parlia-
ment and appeal to the people ; that your Petitioners
accordingly proceeded to the place of election, but
were told they were no part of the people,
and had no right to take part in the election ;
that her Majesty's intention was thus rendered of no
etT,iet. Petitioners pray—That you will address the
Queen to send you all back again to the people ; having
first enacted that all her Majesty's adult male population
of 21 years and upwards should be allowed to vote.
Petitioners further state, if such a law had existed
previous to the late election, instead of a few only of
the late Parliament of blessed memory being displaced,
the services of nearly the whole would have been dis-
pensed with."
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE presented petitions from Leeds,
Nottingham, and Durham, praying the House to com-
mit political suicide by addressing her Majesty to dis-
solve the present Parliament after having passed an Uni-
yerFal 'Suffrage Bill.
Mr. VILLIERS presented a petition from 180 inhabi-
tants of Montreal, in Upper Canada, stating that they
approved of the proposed changes in the tariff of duties
on proviiions imported into the West Indies. The pdti-
tione.-s further prayed that that House would be further
pleased to repeal the duties• upon beet; pork, butter,
wheat, flour, and other articles, the produce of Canada.
and allow them to be imported into British ports free of
dun•.

Dlrrimrso-Frmeinua a petition from a working,
man, prajing for a repeal of the Corn-laws ; a step de-
m:tutted by the sacred principles of religion, as well as of
COM literati policy.
Sir VALENTINE BLAKE presented a petition,
praying that all Members of Parliament might be ex-
e mpietl from the necessity of taking the oath of sispre—
miwy in as fun and ample a manner as persons proti!ss-
lug the Roman Catholic religion are exempted.
The SPEAKER having obLerved that the petition
was signed by the Hon. Member himself,
Sir VALENTINE BLAKE said he had already
stated that the petition with signed by an Hon. Member
of the House.—(Great laughter.)
GOULBOURN objected, to Cie petition being
aceot:.d.

SPE.A.IiEIt having declared that the petition
eoltkl not formally be presented by the lion. Membek
himself,

'1 he petition was withdrawn amidst the loud laughter
of tlle House.

Petitions against the election returns for the boroughs
of ‘Vaketield, Sudbury, Bridport, and Richmond, were
piwunted and laid on the table of the House.
Al r. WALLACE gaTe notice that he should mote for
a S-imt Committee to inquire into the management of
the Post-office department, with a view to promoting
gr ,:tter economy and efficiency; also, that he should early
neat Session move for a Bill for abolishing the o'.;ice of
Postmaster-General, and placing the duttes'of that de-
raettnent in the hands of Commissioners ; also, that he
would call the attention of the House to the evidence in
the repot t of the Select Committee appointed to inquire
into tit. ::jupreme Court of Scotland, and to the propriety
or rtincing the number of the Judges of the Courts of
Session, from thirteen to nine.
ANSWER To THE ADDRESS.

Lord M. lIILL appeared at the Bar, and said that her
a‘lajcsty had been waited upon pursuant to the resolution
of tha: lion. House, and he was desired by her Majesty
to read to the House the following most gracious answer
to the Address of her faithful Commons :
" It is the greatest satisfaction to me to find that the
House of Commons are deeply sensible of the import-
ance of those considerations to which I directed their
attention in reference to the commerce and revenue of the
country, and the laws which regulate the trade in corn,
and that in deciding on the course which it may
be desirable to pursue, it will be their earnest desire to
consult the welfare of all classes of her Majesty's sub-
jects. Ever anxious to listen to the advice of my Par-
liament, I will take immediate measures for the forma-
tion of a new Administration."

RESIGNATION OF MINISTERS.

At a few minutes past five o'clock,

Lord JOHN RUSSELL rose to address the House,
which was then extremely crowded, and the
most profound silence instantly prevailed. The Noble
Lord, who appeared much affected, and who was
at times quite inaudible in the gallery, said—l have
now, Sir, to state to the House that after the division of
Friday night her Majesty's Ministers thought it their
duty at once to advise the answer which has just been
communicated to the House, and humbly to tender their
resignations to her Majesty, to enable her Majesty
to form a new Administration. Her Majesty
was graciously pleased to accept their resigna-
tions ; and we therefore now only hold office until
other Ministers shall be appointed to the offices which
we respectively hold. • Perhaps the House will ?now
me on this occasion, and before I make the motion with
which I intend to conclude, to state some considerations,
in saying which I shall as much as possible avoid mat-
ters of controversy and debate—to state the impressions
I entertain with respect to late events. It was
our duty, as we believed, to propose the measures
which were proposed in the late Parliament in reference
to the trade, and commerce of the country, and which
we thought essential to its interests. Upon being de-
feated with regard to one of these measures we advised
her Majesty, as soon as the business of the Session had
terminated, to resort to a dissolution of Parliament. That
dissolution having taken place, and the new Parliament
having been assembled on the earliest possible opportunity.
we have advised her Majesty to submit to them the consi-
deration of measures of the same nature, and to ask for the
opinion of Parliament in reference to those measures.
It has pleased the House of Commons by a large majority
to address her Majesty, stating that her Ministers did
not enjoy the confidence of Parliament and the
country. This decision left us no other part
to perform than that of resigning our offices. I will net
use any arguments to show why we think we were jus-
tified in prolonging the struggle until the present
day ; but I say that it was our conviction that our duty
to the Sovereign, whose confidence we enjoyed—that our
persuasion of the necessity of the measure which we
advised, and our notions of the interests of the
people of this country, rendered it incumbent on us
to continue that struggle to the present moment.
I have on former occasions justified -the course
which we pursued on thaw particular occasions,

and in future debates I shall be ready to justify them again.
Butl am now only stating the conviction which we entertain.
Sir, it has been our fate now to hold power for a con-
siderable number of years, but I will only say,
that as long as we could use the power as we
believed for the benefit of the country that it
was without reluctance we continued in office ;
and this I will say, that I do not think the possession
of power in this country can be accompanied
with satisfaction, unless there are means of carrying into
effect the measures which Ministers feel essential to the
welfare of the country. I do not allude now to
Particular measures of less or minor importance,
but to measures of greater and transcendent moment.
With regard to such measures, we began, in the com-
mencement of Lord Grey's Administration, with the
Reform Act—we end in proposing measures far the free-
dom of commerce. With large and important mea-
sures we commenced—with large and, important
measures we end. In the pursuance of great objects
we triumphed— in the pursuance of great objects
we were defeated.—(Load cries of " Hear, hear, hear.")
Another matter I may allude to, which relates both to Lord
Grey and Lord Melbourne, as first Ministers of the Crown.
Lord Grey, at the time of the Reform Act, and in the first
year of that measure, enjoyed, together with his colleagues,
great and almost universal popularity. Lord Mel-
bourne, as being the first Alinister of William the
Fourth, became, at the accession of the present
Queen, the adviser of a Princess who came
to the Throne at the earliest period at which by law it was al-
lowable to exercise the power of sovereignty; and therefore
it became his duty to offer that advice, and give that
information, which a Queen, without experience, could
not to be supposed to have, and which was received
with that confidence and reliance which her Majesty was
pleased to repose in her Ministers. Now, I will venture
to say that neither of these principles—the great power
of popularity 'which were enjoyed by the Ministry of
Earl Grey, nor the power end favour of the So-
vereign enjoyed- by the others, owing to the
circumstances in which Lord Melbourne was placed—
would enable any Ministry to conduct the affairs of the
country without the confidence of this House ; and vs biN
fault has been foetid with them for proposing measures
which were not for the advantage of the coun-
try, they have both shown great forbearance
end a great desire to preserve untouched and unim-
paired the Constitution of the country and the pre-
rogatives of the Crown. Having said this much with
regard to the two Ministers under whom I had
the honour to serve—and I may add with pride
and gratification—l may then perhaps be allowed to add
a few words with regard to the person who now ad-
cl-esses you.—(Hear.) I will not pretend to say that
there will not be other persons holding different opinions
who will bring to the administration of public affairs
a larger capacity and more competent intelligence of
these subjects. All I venture to say is, that while
placed in the situation which I had the • honour
to hold, no considerations of a private nature—no
wish for personal advantage—had diverted my attention
from my public duties, and I have endeavoured to give
e4rery moment I could spare to their discharge.—(Cheers.)
iVith respect to the measures which I have proposed,
and the measures which I carried into effect, all I wish
to observe is, that I have endeavoured, to the
best of my power and ability, to exercise
that power for the promotion of the best inte-
rests of the country, and of the Sovereign whom
I had the honor- to serve. This House has decided at
the very commencement of the Session that it will take
measures for directing the attention of the Govern-
ment to the measures alluded to in her Majesty's Speech.
I can only say, that although that decision may call
upon us to give our opposition to measures to
which we cannot give or- approval, I am sure
that in all the future consultations of the House, I shall
be ever ready to give that advice to the House which
'will promote its object, and tend to secure to it the
affections of the people of the United Kingdom, and which
v% :11 conduce to the welfare and prosperity of the great
empire which this House is said to represent.—(Cheers.)
I can assure the House that I shall follow that cor"se,
and in whatever circumstances I ens plated I shall ex-
press to it my conscientious conviction ; and whether
they be the acts of the Ministry of the day, or of
those who are opposed to them, I shall be
always ready to give such an opinion as
I think may tend to the permanent improvement
of our institutions—never, as I expressed on
another occasion—never defending abuses as
if they were institutions ; end, on the other hand, never
ready to sacrifice institutions as if they were abuses. I have
only further to say, with regard to those in this House with
whom I have conducted public affairs for many years,
whether they have been my supporters or my
opponents, I wish personally to express a hope that in
alt our future relations there may be no personal bitterness
(Cheers)--and if our resignation tends to the
fu t t•-e welfare and prosperity of the country, I
shall always look back with satisfaction to this day in
which that event has occurred. I, now Sir, move that
the House at its rising do adjourn to Monday next.
(The Noble Lord resumed his scat amidst loud cheering.)

Lord STANLEY then rose and said—Sir, after the an-
, nouncement that has just been made, and after the allu-
sions that have been made by the Noble Lord to by-
gone transactions, which have inAlved and ultimately led
to the resignation of her Majesty's Ministers, I should do
injustice to the feelings of the House,and to those who sat on
that side of it especially, if I did not state that we feel a, cor-
dial participation in the sentiments of the Noble Lord.
Whatever may have been our political differences, no
sentiment of personal preference can have been engen-
dered in any person's mind. It was my good fortune
for:some time to act with the Noble Lord, and it has
been my misfortune for some time conscientiously to
differ from the course which the Noble Lord
has thought proper to pursue ; but, as I claim
for myself and every Gentleman who felt
it to be his duty to oppose him conscientionsly, so I
give him credit with having been influenced by no
considerations but the sense of duty—(Hear)—which
to a man of his high honour must be paramount to
every other.--e(Hear, • hear.) The Noble Lard, in
the discharge of his high duties, was distinguished
for his zeal, perseverance, and talent, whether in
the discharge of the duties of his own department, or
in the management of the particular business of
this House.—(Loud cheers.) Sir, I will not go back
to make any observations on the statement made by the
Noble Lord of the course pursued by Parliament
further than to say that the Noble Lord has fallen
into several inaccuracies, and he must permit me to
say, with respect to resigning office, that having in the
course of the last session received no very equivocal de-
monstration that her Majesty's Ministers, as a whole,
did not possess the confidence of the House, which the
Noble Lord considered so necessary to carry on the
Government, the Noble Lord and his colleagues pro-
pounded certain measures which I will not now enter into,
but in which they were defeated, and it was not until
that time that the Noble Lord considered that he had only
two alternatives to pursue—one was to resign, and the
other to appeal to the country. The Noble Lord chose
the latter alternative, and I believe that no one will
deny that it was perfectly competent for the Noble Lord
to resort to either of those alternatives. The Noble Lord
resorted to the appeal to the people, and that appeal
had proved unsuccessful to him. The Noble 'Lord said
that, upon the first day of the session, he had thought it
his duty to submit great measures to the How for its
decision, but they had been objected to by the House.
Now, I must take the liberty of saying, that that is not
exactly accurate, because by no possible acquiescence
could the House assent to the measures
which the Noble Lord proposed, nor by refusing
to assent to the Address, did the House in any
manner determine upon the principle under discussion.
If I wanted any illustration of this, I need only point out
that, whereas one sentence of the Address contained
expressions relative to particular parts of the Budget,
that Address was disapproved of by Honour-
, able Members who agreed in the proposals of the
Government, while it was supported by other Mem-
bers who did not agree in those proposals, and
who were not ready to adopt their recommendations.
The Address was supported by some Hon. Members who,
like the Noble Lord the Member fur Lincolnshire, were
altogether opposed to the measures of the Government,
but who asserted that they did not in any manner, by assent-
ing to the Address, pledge themselves to the recommenda-
tion it contained. The feeling of the House was this, that
in the circumstances in which we were placed, the con-
siderations to which the Crown invited our attentive
considerations were of too great importance to become
the subject of incidental deliberation in the House
of Commons, which, after all, could not come to
any decision upon the matter, and which did not wish
to enter into the discussion in the absence of a Govern-
ment possessing the confidence of the House and the
country.— (Hear, hear.)—It was fur these reasons
that I had been induced to refuse to assent to the
recommendations that have been made, and to assert
that this Ho:,e had not that confidence in her Ma-
jesty's present advisers which could justify them
in ploposing measures of great importance to
the consideration of Parliament. Sir, I cannot
but take this opportunity of expressing my regret
that the Speech was so framed as to be liable to a mis.
construction, to which, I am sure, the Noble Lord,
of all men, would least desire that it should be
subject.—(Hear, hear.) I cannot but feel that the
advice of the Government to consider great questions,
in Parliament, coipled with the words in which the
Speech was couched, was calculated to lead
the public -mind to an impression perfectly erroneous
and perfectly unconstitutional, had it been cor-
rec.; that these recommendations were the re—
commendations of the Crown, and not the recommen-
dations of the Ministers, the constitutional advisers of
the Crown. Sir, I do not wish, as I said before, to revive
any topics of irritating discussion upon the occasion.
I am satisfied that the Noble Lord having found it his
dety to yield to the decision of the House and of the
country, and having paid that honirge to constitutional
principles which I trust every Minister of this country
will always be ready to pay to those principles, by resign
ing office when he finds he no longer possesses the power
to carry his measures with credit to himself or satisfac-
tion to the country—l am satisfied that from that moment
every feeling:of excitement between the Noble Lord and

Hon. Gentlemen on this side, if any such had ever ex-
isted, will cease—(Hear, hear)—apel I am confident
that towards him personally no other feelings are
entertained but those of respect for his character
and admiration of his talents.—(Loud cheers from both
sides of the House.) And I give the Noble Lord at the head
of the Government, who has had for some time the
delicate and important duty of advising, as the Noble
Lord has said, a young and dutiful Sovereign—l give him
and his colleagues full credit for having,in the course of their
administration, adopted those measures only which they
believed would be for the welfare of the country. I give
them credit now that they have ceased to hold office
for a determination not to attempt to disturb those
who may be called upon to undertake the
business of the country by any factious opposition ; and
I hope that while they steadily maintain in Parliament
those views in political matters which they conscien-
tiously entertain, the Noble Lord and his colleagues, in
whatever hands power may be placed, will behold with
equal satisfaction the progress of measures which may
redound to the welfare and prosperity of the people.
Lord J. RUSSELL—I can only say at present that I
am sorry such a misconstruction should exist as that
which has been alluded to. lam quite ready to say that
the Speech from the Throne was made by the Ministers,
and they alone are responsible for it.
The question that the House at its rising adjourn to
Monday next, was then put and agreed to.
On the question that the Lords' Commissioner's' speech
be considered on next Monday,
Mr. S. W ORTLEY begged to engage the attention
of the House for a few moments on something said by
the Noble Lord opposite, and under circumstances
which he thought would form a justification for
him while he trespassed on their indulgence for a few
moments. He had no opportunity of doing so before, the
House having been engaged in an important discussion,
which lasted four nights, and only terminated at three
o'clock on Saturday morning, when they were in expect-
ation of the important division that took place. The
Noble Lord had cast certain imputations on
him, which his respect for the House pre-
vented him from callino, for an explanation of. On
Saturday the Noble Lord was not in his plaee, and the
present was the only opportunity he had of calling
on the Noble Lord to perform that duty.
The Noble Lord had in the first place misrepresented
certain statements of his with respect to the Corn-
laws ; but into that question he would not
at present enter, believing that he would have
other opportunities of so' doing. But the Noble
Lord had also accused him of having gone
down to his constituents and raised the Poor-law
cry. The Noble Lord could know nothing personally
of the facts of the case. In the year 1837, when he
was engaged in a similar contest, proposals were made
to him by certain parties to make the Poor-law a part)
cry. It was stated that if he did so he would have a
great accession of supporters. With that suggestion he
refused to comply, as there were many parts of the Bill
of which he decidedly approved ; and in consequence
of that refusal he had four hundred votes less
than the Honourable Member for Preston.—(Hear.)
He maintained that the Noble Lord had no rightto accuse
him of having raised the cry of the Poor-laws, in order
to turn out Lord Morpeth. Other parties on the opposite
side had not been innocent of raising similar cries. We
had seen the cry raised about the " big" and the "little"
loaf, and of " cheap bread," and he had been represented
by these parties as the only obstacle to the starving arti-
sans obtaining it.—(Cheers.)

Mr. ROEBUCK rose to order. He wished to ask if
the Hon. Gentleman was speaking to the question.
The SPEAKER said the question was, " that the
answer to the Lords' Commissioners' Address be taken
into consideration on Monday next."—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. WORTLEY was about to proceed when
Mr. ROEBUCK again rose to order, and said, in proof
of the Hon. Member being out of order, that it was dis-
orderly to refer to the proceeding debate.—(Hear.)
The SPEAKER said that the statement of the Hon.
Member for Bath (Mr. Roebuck) was correct, but that
it was always usual for the House to grant the indulgence
desired by the Hon. Member.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. ROEBUCK said he did not complain of the
Hon. Member entering into an explanation. What he
complained of was that the Hon. Member, while defend-
ing himself, should make attacks upon others.7-(Hear.)

-Mr. WORTLEY said he had not intended 'to make
any attack on the Hon. Member for Bath.
Mr. ROEBUCK—Oh, no! not on me.

Mr. WORTLEY proceeded—lt was only yesterday
he had seen a placard of an organ on the opposite side,
announcing that " the Queen must consider herself a state
prisoner."—(Hear,and laughter.) He really thought that
a party whose organs were guilty of circulating such
random assertions and rumours should be restrained from
venting their spleen against their political adversaries.
Lord J. RUSSELL said, he should be allowed to say
that what he stated was not founded on random asser-
tions or rumours, but on what he had seen in the accounts
of what the Honourable Gentleman was reported to
have said, especially in the address to the electorS
of Yorkshire, signed J. Stuart Wortley. After
reading an extract from that address, the Noble
Lord went on say, that he thought the Hon. Member
had mistook the gist of his (Lord J. Russell's) observa-
tions. lie did not find fault with the lion. Gentleman or
any other person for holding any opinions whatever with
respect to the Poor-law or for opposing Lord Morpeth on
the ground of his opinions on the Poor-law, but
what he (Lord John Russell) found fault with was
the lion. Gentleman stating strong opinions with
regard to the .Poor-law, at the time of the elections, and
when in that House, so far from endeavouring to enforce
those opinions, seeking the first 'opportunity to place
others in power who were strong supporters of the
Poor-law. [The Noble Lord here read an extract from
the address before-mentioned, in which the Hon. Mem-
ber condemned many portions of the Poor-law, and
stated that that law required much alteration at least ;
and that he (Mr. Wortley) would always approach the
subject, whether it be altered or repealed, with a deep
conviction of that first principle—dealing with tender-
ness to the poor.]—(Hear.) The Noble Lord then went
on to say that he did nut find fault with any Gentleman
for holding the opinions just adverted to, but he
said that wen an Hon Member, bolding those strong
opinions upon a law of that kiKd came forward to
bring the condition of the country before the House, he
ought not to reproach others fur approving of that law,
and at the same time support those who also approved of
it.—(Hear, hear.) The lion. Gentleman said, that other
persons had endeavoured to raise a cry of cheap bread
and that a large loafand a small loaf were carried about for
that purpose. He (Lord J. B.) hoped that those who did
so, acted on the belief that an alteration in the Corn-laws
would give them a larger loaf, and they would act con-
sistently with their opinions if they proposed an
alteration in , the Corn-laws ; but if they
were to come to that House and remain
silent on the subject, then, indeed, he would say
they acted inconsistently with their opinions.—(Hear.)
The lion. Gentleman had not convinced him (Lord J.
Russell) by his first speech that he attached any great
importance to the New Poor-law ; but they should
see in his subsequent speeches, whether, although
be appeared to consider it a matter of minor
concern, he would be inclined to press for any great
alteration in, or for a final abandonment of, that measure.
Messengers from the Lords brought up certain Bills