The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-25 00:00:00

MORNING EDITION.

bc
He conceived that with respect to counties there most °f
some difficulty, as, under the existing law tl:e lint
constituency was diminishing ; but with respect to, ‘.ittej
or boroughs, there was no such excuse. If they
is
that diminution of the franchise in cities and borougno.
Ireland, he would ask—he would appeal to th'' 35,
Member for Kilkenny, on what principle would ber
~013
je'ty's Government resist the extension of that dinine
of the franchise to England and Scotland? If th..re,
Lord and his colleagues should say that in Ireland the
cupation of a Si. house was a sufficient test cf the reef 4
tability, the property, the independence, and the st
outs at
its occupier, he (Sir J. Graham) did not Coc
what arguments they could prove that a 51. oeeuP,lee
E gland and Scotland was less trustworthy than tioio
c ler of a 5/. house in Ireland.—( Hear.) 13ut
tti
conceived that the object of the Irish Reform fiL
rt,
respect to counties, was an addition to the freeholdeito
be
sessing the franchise under the Act of 1929, snd °fa
leaseholders possessing a profit equal to the amount ,
freehold. The object of that measure was to exterin.el'f;
basis of the franchise as it is existed in England ac extol ire'
land ; but it broke through no principle which th is of
1829 had established. It did not render the influnee,be
property subservient to Members, and thus degriortiod
station of the elector. Ho ( Sir J. Graham) c
that he was always of opinion that the real principlcluairot
elective system was stated in the clearest and Psis
manner by the highest constituted authorities ~Ydeo
Fox.—(Hear, hear.) That celebrated man 181
sbirb
°
that that was the best system of representation
c;e,.
admitted the largest number of independent
urner
tors, and which excluded the largest ,siiisesi
of those who, from circumstances, were not eatc,. tea-
to exercise the right of voting. It was upon tha'_,,e-
eiple that the Act of 1829, and the Reform Act, ct,ise,i
quent upon it, were passed. He (Sir J. Grahten):l),ost
with the Hon. Member for Halifax ( Mr. C. NSW, ihe
words could not be found more clear and distinct tlit „or
words which established t:.e test under the Act as
stood. Ile ( Sir J. Gralaern) did net think that doh''
stood.
nition of the franchise was necessary. He agreed t the
Hoe.r. Gentleman that it was a great misfortune t'a,sf she
majority of the Judges did not take the definition (1, bot,
law, so as that the minority should agree with therflojeeds
at the same time, if the determination of the )scat, be
should diminish the c mstituency to any great ritscdtblll
would consider it a very serious evil. But he eon I wore
that evil should be made manife.t, and thoughrh;
opinion that no remedy could be enters4,.c"iteres,l
did not place the right of voting in the Pr"'i depoD7
that would give a state of security arid perfect 11,0
eGneenetlteomtehiei,dienletghaetecsouorfsrcosfpetchteable voters. Se
~eforre°
shouldo
wt iaastthuaennedoaelnsrrl eiyedi Liosacfevouteushsna: toy: countsy
Mayo,
Parneds
telhin'elett is(4tfiesacit'cit't'r";),:sts'b' 11),10e:
constituency of
yue lfa3tsiieoavyne:ll f °3r tuf
el rir
111 dAree't
voters ? It so happened that when the Irish lee tf :V
, the
ward in the debate, and Mr. Dominic 13706vcsnber'°$111:°)Iteb:"
represented Mayo, made a motion for an additions 0 est
her fsr. that count y. A numerous constituency
al
rarr
we'ta
iyunsnAadine,ryi ntodbacemp4ecionusletfnerdte
etciolool,l:dszit:lotruciacon:cch:in;
franchise the
,qtr. 13r° " f e
number t „eta
to
that numerous constituency, ail the proPrietsergsaiherh
county had an absolute power to nominate O.'
the co'
but he (Mr. Browne) went on to state that schen ees
stituency, in consequence of the Act of 1829'5,,cetlicr
duced to 700, that power of nomination bad 6 d there
ceased. The constituency was independent, and
else'
be
was no combination of the landlords to put sods the
tors. But was that all with respect to MBT.YTT.° T sts'c,
3aNnsooobt,loheoe
another
remarkablebour Lord
t wtiht
he r:
sfp,ccetl Memberttho a farthtehi
erNorth
c populationeLn adnee
independent
tof eteoh3(,es wocro'ci
Stanley) told them this most striking fact, that i'leltPl3cse'
1831. the year bef,,r3 the discussion alluded tl ire bi
there had been rfn at destitution and distress isl,o
and to such an exteet that out of 3lbed
ipbalief
tants of Mayo, 225,000 had either reee' vers.
or applied for relief from the Goverement °,. was $
( Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) Solinto'rsle-50tstnitIse(Ti
yet made to the remarkable statement of
which showed that the number of acres in Grotto; 013
was about 34 millions, occupied by 350,000 landlcir, eccg.
that in Ireland the number of acrs was 40 milii(?u,:idese'
pied by 659,000 lender-de. By a remarkable coin'orsgo
in each of the holdiees in Ireland there was, er'9,?,:ss tbs°,
about five times less the numbe of played 1"e;r0 (Ohl"
in each of the holdings in En glandem-and the Pri9es`
the number of voters in eachgcfthe;countries so
same. He would then explode the argeinee,,tdaftfe,°,b:s
urged on this subjectto the small by the Hon. and Lesrts'"
for Dublin, relative all amount of vote""orehe'
population, unless the test was to be placed,. eine) that (sttbi6l
and not in property. It has often been put d'es-o,gio psi.t
Opposition) side of the House, arid he would., again
to the Government, did they entertain the si'g- the oe-i?
that they had the least chance of earrYtnift,,petb/be
slut r a
sprhoephohseerd
moreby the
nor
lessN oblteh Le opriday(ieLgoordv,..enr:
aa
game of the appropriation clause.—( Loud c'ergeOe''
trlNoocoognkbai
,I:terr
aLlTieoofrhnedenyadi
in
d his colleagues now felt that 01%4
tacked
ah
leer:
ell sadehr
Ireland,
y andtha
en d
hin fraudwhat
tdy
Wwsahsi cethibo
coe xdcsito:
judorogewo:hbth.ii
,e0,11,f
they well knew could not be fulfill"' sirloPtie-d to
virtually perpetuated these evils. The any 0%0,
such a measure in Ireland would eventuas,
its extension to England and Scotian", ber
that extension of the suffrage the supporters 0'00605
jesty's Ministers had urged in the shape ff De:fot
constantly repeated, and as constantly refaseo-Tattscr,,
was yielded in the most dangerous quarters, IlltieseesTedie
gestiun of the English Radicals, but of the Iris,' dbe ;0.
He should state shortly to the House whet best Gecile'9;
ro
e su
would
confidence
e nsnrHfiscodtetoeurf
dwell
Majesty'sticwi heeeedi
lcotofuo concessions
the
cibocHn
but within
n House
Government,
d e
ca srd ue
ffi cibi
riwny:
uentt
erathh t
orpar
.000,
nof:s
etbe
:ea
thay.eng come to the conclusion that they noier'reeerri
•
on,
k
business of the country with advantage, recta vio-th
a supporter of her Majesty's Government, of If° being
her for Preston, made a motion that uo•
should be extended to the counties of Pn'lalbell'
one half of the sum now proposed for Ireland. ithctieT/0
Member for 13ridport made on that occasion an d ti'Lt if
heal to the Noble Lord opposite. He represe:od t"-ole
distress of the English Radicals was extreme; 0-oforluf;sra
the measure was rc,istcd, it would be the Ine'Te. ebb, :sit'
day that had ever come. He said the at the "ort
must give t130.n soma popular tlPie 1..1
logs—some ground on which to rot eau,..ili•
of the Government, and if not, the GoverninTe:'b
longer reckon upon the support of the EnV,,, etrA'` tb3
at
m
measure
aue
stl oudillt.dgeo Hon.
.tach ‘ersisotti 12;:,eoebrhedlariesfttoiLi
nrinoeSitrddh
promisee,
a ffiwnehlod d aowtua
btshtthiasuettiil:l
roit rer-tuelro,:riestthio
;es
s
would be induced to give way—that tico"d tbo nod
tiphillaereintywits,iheohinhehehaatdtedireifiphteettothlaetaditwweanst bien.));:aibibelcecti°o the
together, and it was, therefore, ineu",,ndel' in the
Noble Lord to give way. So the Session "thing
(Sir J. Graham) thought it probable that seo'.es susreeeb
way of concession would be proposed, hut„alci the Hen
resolved themselves into certainty when be the do'
made at the hustings at Edinburgh ",'h4t °Cjiv t°
Gentleman the Secretary at War. On te
the
his
constituents
x tHonourableeiinseiot whn
those
Gentlemanssotefha
principles,
I
was announce
de i a?,
freelyaa
fSocr o tt lha en
avowingdc.
Hon. Gentleman had telleitectine:dolehlifs'tfoa:aent endi tleeih erilearbetedio,niitie ihtt IC' tf;f3r 1;111::°:1,,rg;11he
made an open question. And now, the 13'1;0f
open question, they had arrived, in the our
mouths, at this rapid progress of tendering $4,5 . e
00.hlee
for the counties in Ireland. He would ask; 'to the ‘,.."
that Irish concession grade? Why, dislifletll,,io 11°He
and Learned Member for Dublin, and t° rth hinl;,,teen
(Cheers. ) The merit of the measure vils ccieish h'e to
originally proposed it in 1832, when the 5.00 tia3lco'
Act was introduced. He had pressed it furore eel be
time, and it was occasionally resisted Witt
firmness, but it was his measure and his sugg;„etese'rrde'
(Sir J. Graham) had most evil forebodings if it " tooth° „Lir
What was the present concession but the first stlowlecrolc.
mends which had been frankl • avowed and acle 001 et's
He would give a short summary) of them, and slid nee Ps
the House to pause and deliberate before svaerned
to them. The first object of the Hon. and 'cod sss'‘i ei
ber was to secure the tame franchise in '4ll reerti6;i4
land ; his second was an alteration of Oe se at
tb
the i epresentatives of the three kingdoms' and
tboe
to the proportion of the population be rej Aci be Ton
represe itatives of Ireland in that House "%rid 1,
sate
eumber. The third demand of the WM
ula oo
he°
Id
Gentleman—and without which there e° there 1,14''
in Ireland, and, so far as he was concerned, of tee
no,
be none—was the confiscation of the properttY.....the ee,tbs-
testatit Church, already reduced 25 per ce,!leh the Case%
cation of that property to public uses, in 91"12$ a pretc'oec
lie might participate in common pith, t and L'Ca'oird.
Thee were the avowed objects of thsiZiyrsehoartpc
inGnieesdnutnleehemerasten,,,,(tidan?u,dlkatehniedroefhwasdeepear others
hea ionno not :po'nk ea:a eotf l'elo;,":trair‘..g;
Belgium, and Switzerland, edeee?l,
with populations infinitely less ))than Irelsnu Lupo' to
But it was in vain for him to define the seeret„Pod re!, jos
the lion. and Learned Gentleman; but he °1..... of hl'oer.
the House a much shorter and clearer expositioncood ootio,
tentions than any he ( Sir JIMe3 Graben) sod Volc-
The words were uttered by the Noble Lord,
ced Ge
toe,
scribed the intentions of the Hon. and Leerr the Woo
man in words which he should now read ,suse
.fr,
The Right Hon. Baronet here read to thc i' *l,lO
island
speech of the Noble Lord (J.
stated that all that was taking pineed Mel% an
showed that the Hon. and Learoe till
00,
objects and views were neither more marl. • e nis 00
• t ono .bc t
attempt, under the name of a repeat of .0 disunite
iu
der the form of a separate Parliament, t t, and t",
Russell), Ibe
Of
counties—to overturn the United andParliamecolosoon'
Jr.
tablish, in the place of King, Lords, hieh the H
and
the United Empire, some Parliament in ea Kirig, Tot,
and Learned Gentleman should be leader
_als`„jeoous
in which no doubt he would play a most On ar oiogl,/
to
but in which it was impossible to go on
_fowl. e° in
without involving the two countries in 11 evejts iti"etri
at 0, the c°. of
the extinction of one or the other, but
loss of that power of public opinion hewsw e%posilsed
had h therto been governed. Such t desigirlione*
the Hon. and Learned Gentler-panic seenrcsed on 3'
coed
int nrions which the Noble Lord had ann°nntico,est se bt it
The date was 1832.-( Hear. ) Hon' but he "°1 cc;
to teink the date made( some difference de the diger:oli!
was the principle and the conduct that ma c wools
arty'
and had there been since then any chang thstPas,sr'its
give greater confidence in the intentions.,_Te wove
_ect,s)
The Government now had t the control of
of
—andth e
hc Hon.w was
sn
astonishedLearnedt
hAalte mhbeerrivfloariensetuy_l,:;oll:3lci n iiirtoeprobseeidr
tamely and recklessly submitted to ssbut edsatti:tiol
upon them. —( Cheer!. ) If he was .
c_ • O9O !co.
concessioes, hie surprise as gro „.,,,ed 'Y ;e:
pabgrrOeasUiet:.:llt:
il!siytsatioNheoil;liNeo
agitation
lgFe.ritiaeLtnidooard(
Lino
or
ip.
Lolls:glut
al
e".) Otto

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