The Sun.
London, England, 1841-04-29 00:00:00

EVENING EDITJ

IT

with the responsibilities of office, had undertaken the
adjustment of this question—(Hear, hear)—that they
bad undertaken, first to define the franchise, end next
to amend the admitted abuses of registration—abuses
which they themselves did not deny, and which they
themselves acknowledged to be grass and indefensible
—(Hear, bear)—but they also took up this ground,
that there was a risk, in improving the registration, of
narrowing the franchise in Ireland—that there were
evils in an undefined franchise, on account of the coo- •
flier of the judicial authorities, and that therefore the
two questious ought to be settled together—that the
franchise ought to be defined, and that these abuses
ought to be corrected. In attempting, housever, to
define the franchise, her Majesty's Govertneist made
a proposal for subverting the franchise.—(Loucf cheers
from the Opposition benches.) In the Dill introducsed by
her Majesty's Government, the preaMble recited that
doubts and difficulties existed as to the ,present frau--
ass, and that it was desirable to clear them: up ; hut
the practical mode in which they met these doubts and.
ditlieu!ties was to eubvert the existing franchise, and to
substitute another in its place—namely, to take es:eaves
pancy, as tested by the rating, as the qualification fax
the county constituency, while a 51. rating wags
to constitute the franchise in all cities and towns;
in Ireland. I understood the Noble Lord:
(Lord Howick) to make a decided objection.
to the principle of that franchise, on two grounds—fiest
he objected to a unilinm franchise as applicable_ to tile
counties and towns of Ireland, and next he objcctct
on principle, to the abolition of a profit front,
land as an clement of the county irsichise.
The Noble Lord, therefore, proposed by way
of an amendment, first to embody the principle
for which he contended, with the measure of the Goe
vernment, and which amendment, so far as the first clauses
was concerned, was simply this—that a beneficial in-
terest or a profit from land should be a sire qua non„
and an indispensable condition in the county iearicaise.—
( Hear.) We entered upon a discussion ofteat question,
and 1 distinctly understood the other night tha are
were then discussing a main—an essential princip:e oli
the Bill—tOpposifiun cheers)—a principle which was
to regulate the future constituency of Ireland. 'Ass
Noble Lord (John Russeq has stated that he had
subsequently discovered that the suggestion of
the Noble Lard the Member for Nortautsiberland
cud of the lion. Gentleman near htL't, evith respect to
the heneliaieleinterest, %as an addition, supplenir nt
to the trauciese which fee h.hneelf -p-enneties% arid then
therefore there would be now no ineonvislca,cY .0 ad-
mitting that additional franchise, ai it would only, extend •
and widen the constituency of Ireland ;
a supplement of his own he would eudesassour
to enlarge the constituency. Why if any thing could :are
clear and decisive on that poir`, it was the seplamaalorn
of the Noble Lord himself when lie brought forward hiss
proposal, for the Noble Lord stet timt no proposed'.
.his amendment far the beneficial interest as exclu—
sive of el/my other franchise. The Noble Lord
the Sacremty for Ireland placed the saute miscon-
struction on the declaration of the Noble Lot uti"
which the Hon. Gendeman the Member for h'eitaxs
in the clearest and most decisive manner, said to the I\
Lord,; " You are wrong in your construction of r. kits
amendment—you think that it will kid to an"
unsatisfactory franchise, anti that it will exclude many
who ought to enjoy it, but in this you are altogether
mistaken." Why I was quite surprised at the pains
the lion. Member fur Halifax had taken, particularly
after what had fallen from the Noble Lord, to show the
nature of the amendment, and I find it impossible to
understand how it coul I be resbeed by any bne utiless on
principle. But on principle it was resisted.—(Hear.)
Upon a principle so overbearing—so overiehelmitig, that
;t compelled the Government to overrule it as tar as
was in their power. If you are going to define the
franchise, surely you can du it without excluding some
of those voters who would be enfranchised by the
amendment of the Noble Lord ; yet the principle wee
found to be so overbearing by the Government taut bee•
neficial interest was wholly to be excluded.—
(Cheers.) I do rot in the least quarrel with the,
explanation of what fell from me, given by the-
Noble Lord (Howick), but I think it better that the
House should draw i.s inferences from a repetition from
an Hon. Member himself, than from the
.recollection
or the impression nude on the mind of another. What.
did say on the occasion was, that if it was proved to
me thnt the just expectations that were entertained
under the Relief Bill or the Referm Bel hate been
di appointed—if it be shown to me that there has been
such a diminution of voters as will not lcave a sufficient
and inteihgent constituency in Ireland, in that
case, I would not be indisposed to consider 3 remedy,
hut if I must apply that remedy—if convinced of its
uccessii —I would feel myself compelled to contend
that a profit from the land should be au essential qUali-
ficetioa toe the franchise—(Cheers)—and I said aisso
with respect to the definition of the ivenclaises
no authority short of the responsible Governmeert of
the Crown ought to take up such a measure, or could.
be expected to bring it to a satiseactory conenn-
sion. I do not say it out of any disrespect to the.
Noble Lord ; but if I were to give my aisent
to send up a Bill to the House of Lords,
coutainiug a new franchise introduced, not by her Ma.
jesty's Government., but by a Noble Lord, whe, as be
said himself, was unconnected with any great party in
the State, upon materials such as we have before us,
I cannot assent to the setting up a 51. franchise. I
think it necessary then to go into the del all of
the It-leisure, despairing us I do of coming
to any satisfactory conclusion upon such informal ion as
we have. Whatever the forms of the House 'nee he,
or whatever they way sllow, I would consider tniat I
should be guilty of deluding Honourable Ih:em-
bers if I were to give my assent to the definition
of the franchise unless, and at the same tinsse,
I could give a reasonable assurance that it ws s
probable that the Bill should pass into a law. I ash ,
tmn, am 1 not justified in saying that in so important .a.
matter as the formation of a new franchise, it is
absolutely necessary that the party introduc-.
ing it ought to have the confidence of the
Crown and act under the responsibility of office ?
Now then, if those were my opinions on Monday, after
one day's interval, and the information received by us
since, can my feelings have undergone any change ?
Here is a general Report of the Commissioners ap-
pointed by the Attorney-General for obtaining infor-
mation on the subject. I have to persuse it, but it is
%cry difficult to keep pace with the supply of those
documents.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) In the 24th
liege of the second General Report is tire passage—
" There ire net materials before us to form any calcu-
lation as to the probable amount of electors which the
adoption of a franchise, regulated by any given amount
of ra lug combined with tenure, would produce."—(Op-
position cheers vied laughter.) That is the Report of
the Commission appointed by the Attorney-General.
I have no friends to supply me with information ; I can
form no other judgment than en the information sup-
plied, yet I am asked to constitute a new franchise, and
these are the materials I have. lam told that " There
arc no materials to form any calculation as to the
probable number of electors which the adoption of a
franchise, regulated by any given amount of rating
combined with tenure, would produce." I look to
another paper, and I find that in 1837 the 10/.
householders in each city of a county in Ireland, were
13,555, and that the 101. householders in boroughs
were 9,403, making together 22,963. I take the year
the Attorney-General selected as that in which
it would be most probable the expectations of the Re-
form viantrscLfealnfidlledn,pwanntddsl numberifinndeitghheteen
unnos,f per-so is ratedl
con-
taming cites and towns, was 23,000 10/. electors in
1837, and 113,932 tenements rated at and above 51.
in those engntecia unions.—(Loud cheering.) lam
aware that nip cities and boroughs are not co-terminous
with the union, but before forming any judgment as to the
effect of any franchise I determine on, would it not be
necessary that I should know the number of tenements
existing in the resuective districts? The Noble Lord said
when the 5/. franchise was proposed it was not his inten-
tion to isc:esse the franchise, and the Noble Lord said
that be did trot expert that the 5/. fianchise would lead
to any suddea or materiel increase in the number of elec-
tors, The Ntble Lord stated that he thought the gene-
s, 1 tendency of the Si franchise would be to widen the
constituency, bet he did net think it at all probable that
any sudden inervase in the number of electors would take
place. If those are the intentions of the Noble Lord, am
not justified in the course I have adopted, namely, de-
chring that, in my opinion, no one can deal with it
question
of this immense importance —.immense
importance with respect to its practical results
in Ireland—immense importance as being a question
that is considered c ,puble of further extension, unless that
person could make a proposal founded on all those means
of obtaining information which Government possesses, and.
unless he brought forward the measure on the responsi-
bility of the Government. With respect to the Noble Lord's
prop :iiierr conet icing that this is a question which ought
to be dealt with so as to be permanently settled, though
Ido not dissent from the general principle of the Noble
Lord, yet I would be guilty of exciting false expectations,
if I di,l not drelr.re frens 'the information that has boon
supplied, that I cannot, consistently eith MI, sense of duty,
support the details of the Noble Lord's proposition.
Lord MORPETH said he did not intend to go fur-
ther into the course which the Government •would pursue
until they, came precisely to that question. He merely
wished to advert to an observation that hod fallen from
the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite. He stated that the
other evening he distinctly understood that the House
was deciding a question of principle.—(Hear.) That
the condi;i so was the sine qua non of the future construc-
tion of the franchise of Ireland. He (Lord Morpetb) must
say that the Right Hon. Baronet had understood directly
tie reverse of what he (Lord M.) had stated. The deduc-
tions taught have been illogical or uot, but he had stated
distinctly that he looked on the first amendment on which
the House had
been called on to come to a vote, as one,
the adoption of which would be inconsistent with the defini-
tion of the franchise er the remodelling or altering, so as
to meet with the consideration of' the Hoose. Of course
he admitted, and it would be idle for him to conceal, that
the words actually adapted by the House, did imply that
the principle of a beeeticial interest, and even the very
'amount of beneficial interest, contained in the Reform Act,
should be engrafted in the subsequent provisions of the
Bill. The beneficial imerest prescribed by the Reform Act
was a beneficial interest of 10/. This, his Noble Friend
proposed, should be evidenced by an occupation, carrying