The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-30 00:00:00

tee, consisting of the justices of the peace residing or pos-
sessing rateable property in such electoral division ; of
the Roman Catholic, Ep'scopalian Protestant, and Pres-
byterian clergymen usually officiating in the churches
existing in such electoral division ; of the guardians
of the poor elected for such electoral division ; and of

wardens elected in the proportion of one for every
inhabitants of such electoral division, ac-
cording to the census of 1841 ; which wardens shall

be elected at the same time and in the same manner as
the guardians of the poor are elected. And be it en-
acted, that the relief committees, constituted as afore-
said, shall consider and determine who are the persons
entitled to receive relief in the several electoral divisions
for which they act, and shall certify their opinion with
respect to the claims of each such person who may apply
for relief to the board of guardians, and shall state
whether, in their opinion, the person so ap-
plying ought to be relieved in the workhouse or out of it.
Sir GEORGE GREY thought it would be actually
impossible to act upon the principle laid down by the
lion. Gentleman in his first clause.

Mr. HAINIILTON said the disapprobation of the dis-
proportionate relation established by the electoral
divisions between the population and the property was
universal.

Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL corroborated the observa-
tion of the Hon. Gentleman.
Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN said the divisions into unions
were most unequal. In Ratbdown Union, for example,
there were 69 000 acres, while in other unions there were
so many as 495,000 acres, and 320,000 res, an ine-
quality for which there was no assignable reasons.
Some change was clearly very desirable in this respect.
The clauses were negatived without a division.
Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN then moved the following
clause :—And " whereas much inconvenience has been
found to result from the great size of several of the
unions of Ireland ;" Be it enacted, that the Poor-law
Commissioners shall revise and reconstitute the unions,
so that no union shall contain more than one hundred
and fifty thousand acres.

Mr. ‘-TESEY trusted that some measure would be
taken to subdivide the unions, and he hoped also that
the electoral districts would be so arranged as to bear
some proportion to the local properties.
Sir G. GREY said that the Commissioners bad the
power of reconsidering and arranging the limits of the
electoral districts, and he saw no reason why the same
rule should not apply to the unions also.
Lord G. BENTINCK had always advocated the ex-
tension of the unions. The districts at present were
immensely disproportioned to the population, in some
instances the applicants for relief having to walk
seventeen miles, and in a very great number of cases
the distance was equally great. The district compre-
hended in the Ballina union was very extensive, and
what made the evil the worse was, that the union
was situated at the one extremity of the dis-
trict, and the western, or more populous part
of the district, was some forty-six miles distant.—
(Hear, hear.) He believed that the system of union
government, and more especially of that part of it
which referred to the care of the sick, was capable of
very great improvement. Perhaps it might be within
the knowledge of the Hon. Gentleman the Solicitor-
General for Ireland, that in the year 1843, when
Mr. Gulston was in Galway there were upwards
of two thousand persons lying ill of fever
1,500 of which number were in the streets and lanes of
the town, and many of them were exposed before the
doors of their houses, with scarcely a rag to cover them.
In the course of 48 hours Mr. Gulston constructed a
fever hospital, at an expense of 30G1., capable of contain-
ing one thousand inmates. The result was, that out of
the 2,000 persons that passed through the fever hospital,
only 17 died. Now, if this principle had been
adopted in the present session, the Government might
have saved an enormous sum of money, and the lives of
hundreds of thousands of people. He was sure that in
the year 1847 not less than 4.000,0001. would have been
saved to the revenue of Great Britain. The expense of
the public works for the year ending the 13th of March
instant, amounted to no less than 13,142,0001. The ex-
pense of the staff alone was 1,193,0001. Now, he was in
a condition to show that if they had extended the work-
houses—if they had built 400 workhouses upon the
same principle as that upon which Mr. Gulston con-
structed a similar building in Galway, and supported in
them the 2,200,000 paupers of Ireland, they would not
only have saved 4,000,0001., but they would have in-
creased the comforts of the poor, and avoided all chance
of demoralising the peasantry. There would have been
no forsaking the land for being employed on the
public works ; and, had recourse been had
to this system, hundreds and thousands of
lives would have been saved, while the general condi-
tion of the people would have been greatly improved.
Government could tell them the number of potatoes
which Ireland had produced, but they would not give
them a return of the number of poor wretches who had
perished under the foolish system of free trade. When
Government, in the month of August, knew that the po-
tato, the only food of the people, had failed, they ought
to had taken decisive steps to supply the wants of the
people with another description of food, but instead of
doing so, Government had shown an utter indifference
for the sufferings of the people, and now they boldly
refused to supply the House with any infor-
mation upon the great misery of Ireland ; but
he could tell them that the time was coming when it
would be wrung from them by the united voice of the
three kingdoms.
Mr. LABOUCHERE was anxious that the House
should proceed with the consideration of this important
Bill, and he should not then intrude himself upon the
House had it not been for an assertion of the Noble
Lord. He owed it to himself, to his own character, and
the feelings of the Government with whom he acted, to
make seine reply to it. The Noble Lord had said that
Government were indifferent to the sufferings of the
people of Ireland ; and he should content himself with
giving a contradiction to that assertion as explicit
and as complete as his respect for the House
would allow him to give.—(Cheers.) Ile felt
too deeply the responsibilities which rested upon him,
as a Minister of the Crown, to lose his temper in die-
cussing a question of this magnitude, and no provoca-
tion should induce him to do so, and nothing but the
provocation the Noble Lord had given could have called
from him the declaration he had made. He trusted that
he had not expressed any sentiment in opposition to the
principle of the Bill, or that he had not displayed a
spirit which was not in perfect consonance with that
which the Government desired to display, but if he had
it had been elicited by the charge which the Noble Lord
had so unjustifiably brought against the Government.
Sir G. GREY trusted that the observations which
had been made were not in consonance with those
which bad been evinced by the enunciation of the Noble
Lord's views ; and it should be recollected that the
cases which had been adduced were in contravention of
the principle which he had propounded. There would
be ample opportunity for discussing them in the Com-
mittee, when the clauses were brought under the notice
of the House. He sincerely hoped that the Hon. Mem-
ber would not press any of his suggestions to a division.
Mr. REPTON had not the slightest wish to detain
the House from the discussion of the clauses, and must
say that he gave the greatest credit to the Government
for their exertions to relieve the distress in Ireland.

Mr. S. O'BRIEN had, no more than the last Member,
a wish to detain the House from the consideration of the
subject before them ; but he believed that in the doc-
trines of free trade, to which they professed their adhe-
rence, there was a remedy to be found ; and if they had
acted up to those principles, he believed that it was not
necessary that a single life should be sacrificed in Ire-
land. He trusted, therefore, that they would not now
depart from their principles, but that they would recol-
lect what was the amount of distress that was likely to
ensue from a too astringent adhesion by them.
On the clause being put by Mr. GREENE,
Mr. NEWDEGATE said that it was very possible
that the Noble Lord had used expressions stronger than
the meaning which he intended they should bear—
(Laughter)—but while saying this, he was quite ready
to give her Majesty's Government credit for every desire
to relieve the distress in Ireland, but to do that they
must depart from their rigid construction of the princples
of political economy ny which they seemed to be bound.
The clause was then negatived without a division, and
on the proposition that the original clause should be
brought tip with the report,
Mr. HAMILTON and Mr. Small O'BniEN expressed
doubts as to the way in which it was likely to work.
Sir GEORGE GREY explained that it would not
depend on the guardians so much as on the Act itself.
Mr. W. S. O'BRIEN proposed the insertion of the
following clauses :—And whereas it has been found
that the rate required to repay the original cost of
building the workhouses presses very unequally upon
property in the several unions in Ireland ; be it enacted,
that the repayment of the loans borrowed under direc-
tion of the Poor-law Commissioners, for the construction
of the workhouses, shall be defrayed by means of a rate
leviable according to the net valuation, as an uniform
poundage upon all rateable property throughout Ireland.
And whereas it has been found that the standard of
valuation differs very much in the several unions of Ire-
land; be it therefore enacted, that the Poor-law Com-
missioners shall take immediate steps for obtaining an
uniform valuation of rateable property throughout Ire-
land, in so far as the same may be attained by the Acts
now in force relative to valuation. And be it enacted,
that persons receiving fixed incomes from rateable
property by way of jointure, rent-charge, or any other
annuity, not being created in satisfaction for debt,
shall be liable to all rates levied for the relief of the
poor in the same manner as if the incomes so received
were receivable as rent. And be it enacted, that it
shall be lawful for the guardians of any union,
if they shall so think fit, to put out to nurse and to
contract from half-year to half-year for the mainte-
nance of any orphans or deserted children whom they
may consider fit objects for relief, and to order payment
out of the rates, and charge against the union at large
such sums as may be agreed upon between the guardians
and the persons so contracting for the maintenance of
such orphans or deserted children. Provided always,
that no such contract or 'payment shall continue after
any orphan or deserted child, for whose maintenance
such contract shall have been made, shall have attained
the age of thirteen years.
After a short discussion, in which Sir G. Grey,
Morgan J. O'Connell, Mr. Bellew, Sir H. W. Barron, Mr.
Shaw, and Mr. Archbold took part, the clauses were
negatived.
Sir GEORGE GREY introduced a clause, removing
the restriction of a three months residence in the union
workhouse previous to establishing a claim to emigration
relief, which was agreed to.
Mr. VILLIERS STUART moved the following
clauses :—And whereas in many districts in Ireland,
from the local position of the county infirmary, the poor,
who from accidents or other causes may require surgical
assistance in an hospital, are unable from the distance of
the said infirmary to obtain it, and it is desirable that
this evil should bo remedied : he it enacted, that it
shall be lawful for the guardians of any union
for the relief of the poor in Ireland, to attach
to the poorhouse of the said union, provided