The Sun.
London, England, 1840-05-13 00:00:00

HOUSE OF LORDS, 1114 r 12.

Their Lordships met at Fire o'Clock.
A Message from the House of Commons brought np the
York Improvement Bill, and several other private Bills.
Lord KEN Y ON presented petitions from the counties
of Kant, Cardigan, Oxford, and York, against the grant to
Mavnooth College.
TiTiiES COMMUTATION ACT (IRELAND).
The Bill for amending the Irish Tithes Commutation
Act, by converting tithes into a rent-charge, passed through
Committee, and was ordered to be read a third time on
Thursday next.

The kart et RADNOR prosontei petitions frosa va—
rious places praying for the total repeal of the Corn-
laws, and is favour of Church Extension.

Lord S;i:GRA VE preaentad petitions from the agri-
cu:turists and agricultural labourers of S:ow-in-the- Wold,
Forehampton, and Chariton Kings, in the county of Glou-
cester, against any alteration in the Corn-laws. Also a
petition from thu operatives of Frampton Cotterell, in
the same county, praying for the total repeal of all Corn-
laws. The Noble Lord said he cordially concurred with
the prayer of the former petitions, and though the latter
was numerously and respectably signed, he could not but
thit.k the petilioners were labouring under delusion ©n the
aubject.
The Bishop of RIPON presented petitions from Mon-
mt,ittishire and Wiltshire against Church Extension.
Teo Earl of WICKLOW, on the part of the Arch-
bishop of Dublin, postponed the motion on transportation,
of which the Right Rev. Prelate had given notice, from
Friday to Tuesday next.

WAR. WITH CHINA.
Earl STAN HOPE, after presenting several petitions
against the opium trade with Chins, said he was
aware that the motion of which he had given notice,
would have had much more weight had it been brought
forward by some person of greater ability. But it might
be in some degree recommended by the tact, that the in-
dividual addressing them could not be supposed to
be actuated by any party motive, as ho was altogether nncon-
nz.scted with any particular party, and that his only object
was the honour and iuteredt of the country on a question
which involved both. He should not trouble their Lord-
ships at any great length than, and he trusted that it
would be unnecessary for him to do so in reply.
He would confine himself to the matters which bore
directly upon the question. He trusted at the outset he
would be relieved from the necessity of demonstrating
that which every rational man must consider an axiom.
He believed no reasonable man would question the fact
that every foreigner was bound to pay implieit obedience
to the laws of the country in which he resided, even
more than those of the laws of the country to which
he belonged,—(A laugh.) He did not find any
exception to the rule with regard to the trade in opium,
whether that traffic was carried on within or without the
Canton river. It was quite immaterial, and could in no
degree affect the duty of obedience and submission of
foreigner., what were the grounds upon which any par-
ticular laws were founded. Whether they wore founded
upon morality and religion, upon commercial and fiscal re-
gulations, or upon whim and caprice—it mattered not whe-
ther the prohibition to import opium arose, as he (Lord Stan-
hope)contended from the wise,determinsd and magnanimous
determination, on the part of the Emperor of China, to
interdict the importation of a drug which had debased the
intellect, depraved the character, lemoralised the conduct,
and destroyed the health and happiness and lives of mil-
lions among the countless inhabitants of this mighty
empire ; or whether it arose partly or principally
from a desire to prevent the exportation of silver.--
( Hear, hear.) A learned gentleman lately published
a sort of brief on the subject, and had laboured hard to
show that the real cause of the prohibition of the import
of opium arose from the drain of silverr. A rise had
taken place in the value of silver, in consequence of the
great exportation, to the amount of more than 50 per cent.
The value of the Chinese ounce of silver was equal to
68. 81, of English money, and this was at par equal to the
value of 1,000 copper coins or casts. But in consequence
of the exportation, the value of the ounce of silver had
' risen to 1,500 casts ; and this had, of course, the effect of
greatly ernbarassing the finances as well as the commer-
cial affairs of the empire. It appeared from the memo-
rial of a Chinese Governor, dated in the year 1838 (and
laid amongst other papers relating to the present question
upon the table of their Lordships' House, but not printed),
that the land tax and the taxes upon grain and other
produce were collected in the copper coin. But for the
purpolo of transmission to the central exchequer,
it
was necessary for the collectors t
the loss fell npen the officers;.
onr owceo
know convert the amount
into silver, and since the rise the value of silver,
what an embarrassment was ourselves
occasioned to our commercial
transactions when gold was exported. The loss to the
Chinese Government was calculated,miliio according to another
memorial, to amount to 2i sterling, or to more
than the value of ten millions ofn:,
inces of silver. In-
deed it was stated in an English paper, was pub-
lished at Canton, that one of te objects,.ug
or rather the
avowed object of the merchants in irainl
silver was to impoverish the Government,
and render China of
more easy to compel it to grant advantageous terms to
t
the foreign traders.—( Hear, hear, hear,) On these
grounds the Chinese had naturally been excited
to great caution against all insidious efforts; to subvert the
liberty and the independence of their empire' This part of
the subj 'ct, however, had only reference to the question is
consequence of the undue stress which had been laid upon
the motives alleged to have influenced the Chinese in re-
spect to the exportation of silver. It had been said by
those interested in the nefarious traffic, and by those who
accustomed themselves to repeat by rote without the
trouble of examination, that there had been on the part of
the Chinese Government—in respect to the opium trade—
prohibition in theory and permission in fact. Now,
as far as the Imperial Government, was concerned,
he (Earl Stanhope) denied tho fact, and
affirms that its measures had been fixed and
constant as the polar star, against the traffic,

Undoubtedly while the opium traffic was inconsiderable
in amount, and while the pernicious effects of the poison-
ous drug were but little known, and the number of its
victims comparatively small, there was nothing particu-
larly to awaken the attention of the Chinese Govern-
meat to the subject. But sines) that time, after
the year 1136 —their efforts to suppress the
traffic has been marked by an energy and zeal
Which had bees signally successfui. The Noble Earl pro-
ceeded to refer to various extracts from the " Big Blue
Book," to show that Captain Elliot admitted this to have
been the case. The Noble Earl then proceeded to
quote other extracts from the correspondence of Captain
Elliot, in the years 1836, 1837, 1138, and 18'39, to show
that the Chinese Government had determined, and were
taking measures, to put down the opium trade, of which
he (Captain Elliot) was fully aware, and bad informed
her Majesty's Government. Mr, Lindsay stated that the
measures for the suppression of the opium trade com-
menced in the year 1837, and that the quantity had de-
creased until it was totally stopped. In December, 1838,
three principal Mandarins were degraded from their ho-
nours for bad practices, among which opium smoking was
the principal. He appealed to any impartial and intelli-
gent man, whether the policy of the Emperor watt that of
one who wished to connive and wink at the trade—whether
he would not have allowed the existing laws to falliinto obli-
vion, and become a dead letter, instead of calling the at-
tention of his own subjects and foreigners to the matter
by renewing those decrees, and acting with increased se-
verity ? Their Lordships were aware that the opium was
carried from the receiving ships in a species of galleys,
which were propelled by a number of oars, aided by sails.
They moved with extreme rapidity, and received from the
Chinese the names of " fast grabs" and " scrambltng
dragons." Was not that a proof thtt the trade was known
to be illegal, and in proof of that the Chinese Government
wee obliged to construct similar vessels in order
to capture theca smugglers. If the continuance of
smuggling was a proof of connivance oa the
part of the Government, Noble Lords opposite, and
persons of high life, of rank, and fashion, might be charged
with connivance, and as being parties to that disgraceful
traffic. They were told by en anonymous writer, who
styled himself a Barrister-at-Law, that the mere fact of the
long existence of the smuggling of opium wee a proof of
the connivance of the Government. If the writer had not
designated himself &barrister, he (Earl Stanhope) would
have supposed that he belonged to the lowest grade of the
profession, and knew nothing of the weight of evidence or
of the'matter in hand. A trade of so much uncertainty,
attended with so much risk and:personal hazard, would be
abandoned with advantage even in a commercial point of
view. But its continuance in its present state would be
disgraceful to the character of this country in the eye& of
Chins and Europe, and would be attended with commer-
cial and public loss and ruin. Captain Elliot, in his ad-
dress to the traders at Canton, said that the conduct which
was now pursued in forcing opium into China against
the interdicticm and oaution of the Government, was
lowering the English nation in the estimation of the
Chinese people and Government, and would do
irreparable injury to our future intercourse. He said it
would do this country more damage than a war, and was
highly dangerous to the peace of the Chinese empire. He
said that the traffic was never friendly to humanity or mo-
rals; but the audacity and profligacy with which it was then
curried on rendered its character more disgraceful and per-
nicious, Was it credible, then, after receiving all the in-
formation to which he (Lord Stanhope) had referred after
the declarations which had been made by British residents
at Canton—after the repeated warnings and strong opinions
as to the disgraceful and dangerous character of the traffic
—was it credible that her Majesty's Ministers made no
communication whatever to Captain Elliot ? The only in-
structions her Majesty's Government sent to him related to
the word " Pin," the whole question concerning which was
not worth a pin, or that Chinese coin whose value was the
one-thousandth part of six and eightpenee. He had in the
course of his life paid some attention to the abstruse sci-
ences, but he was unable to understand the geographical
niceties which made a thing all that was bad and reprehen-
sible within the Canton River, which was perfectly harmless
without it. It reminded him of a story of the late Mr.
Fox's, respecting a lady who had gone to India, :and
whose conduct there had been distinguished for its gal-
lantry, but whose friends apologised for her by saying that
though the charge could not be denied, nothing of the sort
had ever taken place on this side the Cape of
Good Hope. And so said Captain Elliot, " Talk
not to me of the opium trade, since I have by my
edict suppressed it within the Canton River." If their
Lordships had attended to the extracte ho had read they
would know that the strictest orders were given that the
receiving ships should he sent outside the port ; and were
not such orders justifiable ? What should we think if
foreign smuggling vessels lay at anchor at Spithead ? He
thought they would not be suffered do so many days,
but that if they approached our shores the Smuggling- Act
would be put in operation, which provided for the seizure
of suspicious vessels lurking about the shores. He would
now call attention to what had been done, or rather what
had not been done, by Captain Elliot; for he was sorry to
say no instructions had been given to him by her Majesty's
Government, as appeared by the published correspondence.
He (Lord Stanhope) was sorry to see in a British officer
that want of franknees and good faith which Captain El.
hot had manifested towards the Chinese on this occasion.
He (Captain Elliot) allowed, in a despatch which he had
read, that he was required by the Chinese Government to
send away the opium vessels—and what was
done? An equivocation was resorted to unwor.
thy of his character, his station, and his profession ;
namely, that he only saw the papers of British ships sthich
arrived without the port, and had therefore no means of
knowing what objects they hud in view. In entering into
art inquiry on the subject of our present relations with
China, it was most important to ascertain what had been
the previous dispositions of the people of that country. He
wcuhl venture to say, that the conduct of the Chinese to
foreign nations had been hitherto most psaific and concilia-
tory. Captain Elliot himself had praised their humanity,
and he stated that they were in many important respects
the most moderate and reasonable people on the face of
the earth, What was the conduct of the English, on the
other hand ? They had used, in his (Earl Stanhope's)
opinion, the most offensive language towards the people of
China—they had pursued the most outrageous conduct,
and they bad manifested the most hostile intentions to-
wards them. It was impossible to consider this subject
without taking into account the acts of Captain Elliot.
Their Lordships must consider what had been done, and
what had been left undone, and whether the course that
had been pursued was not the cause of the lamentable
events that had taken place.—( Hear, hear.) Ile be-
lieved that for those acts her Majesty's Ministers
were responsible, and he trusted that they would he able
to account for them that night. Ile considered them to be
placed in the light of accessories after the fact.—( Hear,
hoar.) If her Majesty's Ministers did not approve of the
acts of Captain Elliot, it was their duty to have recalled
Iline—( Hear, hear.) Now, what was the fact? Why,
the Government had adopted the acts of Captain Elliot,
and there could be no doubt that the evils that had taken
place were attributable to the non-intervention of the
Government. A great deal had been said about what was
called the imprisonment of Captain Elliot. Now, what
was the real fact ? Why, he was nothing in China but a
consular agent. He had forced his way to Canton, and
then he was astonished to find when he got there that he
was detained. He (Lord Stanhope) would rest the whole
of this question on the declaration of Lord Palmerston
himself, that the laws of the Chinese had been violated,
and that the parties connected with that violation had
brought the whole thing upon themselves. He was fully
convinced that if proper communication had taken place,
the evils now deplored would never have occurred. Ie
his (Lord Stanhope's) opinion, Captain Elliot ought to
have communicated the course he was about to adopt
to the Chinese authorities. He had not done so, and what
was the result? Why, that those unfortunate circumstances
which were so much to be deplored had taken place. If
the English law had been put into force in the transac-
tions connected with China, three times the value of the
opium that had been seized would here had to have been
made good. It therefore could not be said that the
Chinese had acted with harshness. Then, with respect
to the Americans, it had been said, why should they be
treated with greater favour than the English? The answer
that he would make to that observation was this—that they
had kept good faith with the Chinese, which this country
had net. The fact was, that the British flag had been
degraded in the waters of China, in consequence of the
outrages which had taken place there. The ships of Eng-
land had attacked the Chinese without any cause, and
he felt no hesitation in asserting that, looking at the course
Captain Elliot had pursued, the Chinese were perfectly
justified in the position they had taken. He could con-
ceive no justification whatever on the part of this country,
in having instituted the blockade. Ile thought such an
act was altogether unjustiiable, and he would put it to
their Lordships whether the calamities that had occurred,
were not to be attributed to the course that he had pur-
sued? Were the Noble Lords unaware that the sale of
opium had greatly increased in this country? He did not
know whether it was used in the University or not, but in
the town of Cambridge a very considerable quantity of the
poisonous drug was sold. This was the drug they were
going to force upon the people, who constituted nearly
two-fifths of the population of the world. He knew it
would be said this trade could not be put down. He knew
it could not, but neither could the slave trade; yet their
Lordships had net thought it beneath their dignity to
legislate for the abolition of that trade. That accursed
traffic had already been most detrivental to the legitimate
trade of the country; in a particular branch of it, too, which
gave employment to a vast portion of our population, both
male and female. Added to this, there was the expenses of
the war, which would not be inconsiderable, if it wore
put an end to to-morrow, and, under present circum-
stances, could the Government afford to lose 400,000/. of
revenue ? But, suppose they were to blockade the river
at Canton, the Americans would either recognize it or
not. If they did, they at once lost the whole trade.
The revenue must suffer, and the people of this country
would be deprived of that which by habit had become a
prime necessary of life. If they did not recognize the
l;unaghod
tuhse
wn taor war,
once
bane-
gun,
coanncaedeps
gun, who could say where it would cease.
nation—a people so numerous and so pro, eminently
possfble for any one to expect for a momennt thltalttwsatsicihni;
en
intelli-
gent—should ever succumb to this country ; but, tv iatever
might be its result, it would be a war upe on our part of
honour app
to
tthoethmeositteflyeargernd
flagrantly unjust cwhiaioracdtied him the would
r. il
listen to him, for their votes for such a war must preclude
the hope of our ever extending the blessings of the Bible
among that interesting people. He had endeavoured to
show the atrocious character of the opium trade, and that,
for the pres.ervatics of such a trade, the House ought not
to keep up for a moment a war with tire Chinese nation,
whick must be followed by such results, unfortuate, both
morally, religiously, and politically. Apologising to the
House for detaining them so long, he would conclude
with moving—. That an humble Address be presented to
her Majesty, to express to her Majesty the deep concern
of this House inlearning that an interruption has occurred
in the friendly relations and commercial intercourse which
had so long subsisted with the Chinese empire ; and to
represent to her Majesty that these calamities have, in the
opinion of this House, been occasioned by British subjects