The Sun.
London, England, 1847-01-02 00:00:00

EFFECTS OF METROPOLITAN

RAILWAYS.
The following are extracts from the minutes of evi-
pence taken before the metropolitan Railway Commis-
sioners. Mr. R. L. Jones is the witness first examined.
You have had a good deal of experience in the course
of the metropolitan improvements which have been made
under the direction of the city, of the effect produced by
such alterations in the removal of habitations of an in-
ferior class, and the removal of the poor from districts
in which they were congregated ?—Yes; there have been
some instances of that certainly.
What generally is your opinion of the effect of such
changes, are they detrimental to the poorer clasess or
otherwise?—l should say rather a benefit than other-
wise; it induces them to go out of those hordes and
dirty places whish they would not think of if they were
not driven eut.
It not only induces them, but compels them go, no
doubt; but does net that compulsion inflict any great in-
jury or suffering upon them?—l should say not, because
in all cases in which I have been concerned, we have
always given them a eompensation, however, small it
might be, and they have got dwellings elsewhere in a
better situation.
Is it the interest of some speculators to provide dwell-
ings for the poor in such cases ?—My own opinion is
that that would never answer to any great extent. If
you took a manufactory where the manufacturer was
going to employ 300 or 400 men, and there were no
small dwellings near, it would be worth the while of a
builder to build small cottages for such a class of people;
but I have been consulted by several who have been
desirous of building habitations, and I find that the
workmen will not go away from their labour. What
has been the cause of all the hundreds and thousands of
small houses at Blackwall and Poplar, and all those
places ? the docks, which have brought the labour there.
The labourer will not go away from where the manu-
factory is, however bad the occupancy of his dwelling
may be ; he still will be near his work.
Then in what manner have you found that the poorer
classes, who are compelled by the courso of those im-
provements to leave their dwellings, are provided with
new ones 2—There are always builders who are building
small places, so as to catch here and there one, but not
to any extent.
But sufficient to make provision fur them ?—Jest so.
There are many situations in the City:where old courts
have been pulled down and better classes have been built,
but they have been near their work, and therefore oc•
cupied by the workmen ; they will not travel far from
where their labour is.

Mr. J. W. Higgins gives evidence to the following
effect upon the same subject :
What is your opinion as to the effect that a railway
has passing through a low neighbourhood, where the
houses are bad, and the population bad, as in the case
of the Blackwell and the Eastern Counties Railways?—
It appears to me that, with reference to the taking down
some of the low neighbourhoods, it has the advantage
of letting in light and air, and spreading the popu-
lation, but it is exceedingly painful very often
in its operation, for people are put to vastincon-
venience, and those who can least bear it. I
apprehended that, with reference to the dealings with
public streets, &c., even the improvements made by the
Metropolitan Improvement Commission, and by the
City, are attended with loss to many. I have had to
do with them for a good many years, and have seen
very much of them.
Will you state them ?—I will endeavour to do
so. The improvements in this respect by new
streets, &c., are by no means an unmixed good ;
there are many unduly paid, over paid ; then, on the
other hand, some, especially trades of a sound character,
and rooted as it were to a spot, no reasonable compen-
sation does pay them. Many, in a small way, waste
the few pounds or hundreds they receive, and frequently
damage is done to other properties to a very serious
amount by the operations of new streets, as in the
case of Chandos.street, and recently of Broad street,
and High street, St. Giles's, and the west end of
Holborn, the new Oxford-street will damage pro.
perty there, both freehold, leasehold, and trades, to a
very serious extent, and persons are left without a
claim of any kind. There are many which are called
consequential damages ; many of those inconveniences
and losses I believe it is difficult to redress ; to a great
extent I think it is almost impossible. I mention these
matters that they may be impressed upon the minds
of Legislators carefully to avoid the granting of such
powers unless they are made out to be important and de-
sirable. There are very many inconveniences in cases
of leases, &c. I have seen great hardships in the cases
of leases and trust properties. In the case of lessees
who would continue renewing from time to time when
the As; has passed the lessors, such as Dean and Chap-
ter, and other ptcprietors, take the whole of the property
except the years due in the lease under the strict letter of
the law: the custom of renewal is lost to the lessee, I
have known hundreds and thousands that would have
been continued to families so lost to lessees. All this I
think it my duty to point out, as important reasons for con-
ducting these affairs with very great caution. Many
instances I have met with se here tradesmen have been
carrying on business without leases, and for years. I
remember, among others, in the Strand improvements,
some serious cases. I represented to the Metropolitan
Improvement Commission, and the best was done that
circumstances would admit of ; but there were parties
who had lived for years without leases, and would have
gone out without leases ; they were thrown upon the
consideration of the Commissioners, who kindly ordered
some allowances, but some lost their means of livelihood ;
and I believe many of those cases are unavoidable ; but
again it shows how necessary it is to be cautious how
such liberties are allowed to companies, who are seeking
their own interest only in these matters.
Those observations would mainly apply to better
neighbourhoods than the Blackwell Rade ay ? I made
an estimate for it, and had occasionally to do with it
afterwards, and I have seen cases of hardship which
have been the unavoidable consequence in all such affairs
--the parties whose property is taken get paid, some of
them, as I said before, unduly paid—but with regard to
parties on the opposite side of a street or in the neigh-
bourhood, whose property is not touched, they do not
get paid, and their trade is sometimes damaged to a
great extent, by sweeping away a portion of their cus-
tomers. So that in oases, even in the neighbourhoods
of which your Lordship speaks, there are these unavoid-
able inconveniences of which the public know little.
With regard to the benefits that may result from run-
ning a railroad through a low district of that sort, to
what extent do they accrue?—Except that it is a public
benefit from better air, and sometimes better drainage,
Ido not know that much advantage is derived. I cannot
calculate upon much except that, and encouraging the
general trade and commerce of the county by railway
accommodation.

Take the two points of air and drainage, do you con-
sider that the neighbourhood of those two railways, the
Eastern Counties and the Blackwall, have been bene-
fited upon those two heads ? Do you consider that
Rosemary-lane, near the Blackwall railway, and the
Bethnal green district, through which the Eastern
Counties Railway passes, are any the better drained, or
any the better ventilated ?—I think the probability is
they are better drained. I have not watched that.

Hare you been there lately ?—Yes, I was there on
Saturday last about an extension.
On the Eastern Counties ?—Yes ; I was there looking
over a property for a friend in the same profession, who
is ill, and in aid of his duties I was there on Saturday,
and have been there several days. I do not know how
the Acts constituting those railways compel drainage,
but generally they have clauses about drainage, and the
railways improve drainage very frequently ; but with
regard to taking down a number of the houses and spread-
ing the population, opening out those courts and alleys,
and gi►ing light and air, they certainly are to some extent
and in some places advantageous ; they are proposing
now to take down some wretched places in that imme-
diate neighbourhood, but they have some very filthy re-
ceptacles under some few of their arches.
Do you think that those railways take down more
houses than are absolutely necessary for the breadth of
their own line ?—They rarely take down more than is
necessary, either for the breadth of their line or for
their other purposes ; generally speaking, they are
cautious about that I believe.

Does not that necessarilyllimit the benefit which might
be derived from their opening out those low neighbour-
hoods ?—lt does, unquestionably ; but it is not merely
their line, they take surplus property : the Eastern
Counties, for instance, have a wider extent taken near
High-street, Shoreditch, than the mere trunk line ; they
want it for different purposes, or expect to do so.
But they do not occupy it by building ?—lt is not all
built upon at present. It will be built upon with a
better description of building. My impression since I
have thought of this subject is, decidedly, that with
regard to these railways, as far as I can form
a general judgment upon the subject, there are
two extremes, the one of bringing them into the
heart of the town, which, I think, can't be borne with.
I have seen a very clever model of my friend Mr.
Pearson's, but it appears to me to have, with all its ex-
cellencies, the vice of emptying and filling in a part al-
ready crowded beyond endurance. At the same time,
keeping the termini of railways too far from the sides
and near the centre of London, I think, a great incon-
venience, not only to the railway world, but to the
general public who have nothing to do with railways ;
the means of convey ance are occupied in getting to and
from the termini, and blocking up the thoroughfares
longer than need be.
Have you in your mind any limitation which you
would propose to apply to the progress of railways
towards the metropolis ?—No ;it is strongly im-
pressed upon my mind, since I have thought about
it, that it must depend upon circumstances.
lwaMy im-
pression is, that if the Birmingham Rahway hadcome
to Russell-square have
formerly they would
done
wisely, but I would not let them at once into Hol-
born ; it is one of the great arteries ; but if they had
been a 3 far as Russell-square, or somewhere there, they
would have been near the centre of London, and would
have had space and numerous avenues, and the traffic
could have spread in various directions. I mention this
as my general notion of where and what a railway ter-
minus should be. The Ristern Counties I take to be
too far eastward. The South .Western I have had much
to do with in its early stages: this. I suppose, from its
poverty at that time, stopped at Nine Elms ; that is a
most unhappy position, as it appears to me, for a rail.
way station.

What is your opinion with respect to those districts
which aro mostly inhabited by the merely labouring
classes ; does the disp:acement of the habitations of
such classes tend more to good or evil in your opinion ?
—I have great. difficulty in judging upon the subject, al-
though I have formed a large acquaintance with that
description of persons recently, for I had much to do in
St. Giles's, in the very Rookery.
With reference to that particular district to which
you have adverted, the Ric:leery, do you believe, upon
the whole, that greater benefit has been derived from
opening that aggregation of habitations of the worst
class than the dtsativantege of the compulsory removal j

consequent upon it to these poor people?—Toothese poor
people, abstractedly, I think it has been hitherto a dis-
advantage ; decidedly so.
Where have they found other habitations ?—ln the
courts about Drury-lane very much, and the lower parts
of Westminster.
But have they found thorn ?—Yes, they have squeezed
in somewhere ; they have been obliged to do so.
When you have stated they have squeezed in, have
there been any new habitations in any of the neigbbour-
ing districts for them ?—No, not to any extent, not to
meet the circumstances of those poor creatures.
Do you think, then, that the removal of those people
has tended rather to accumulate population in already
extremely peopled districts?—l have no doubt of it.
And in that way it would have created a greater in-
convenience in some other portion of the metropolis ?
No doubt about it.

Are you convinced of the fact?—Certainly; several of
my Rookery acquaintance that have been removed,
sweep the crossing of the streets, and I stop every now
and then and ask where they are lodging, and I find
them, as far as lam able to discover, moved almost in-
variably to the dense rookeries of the town; many in
Westminster, and about Drury-lane.
But the lower parts of Westminster have been greatly
improved of late years?—Yes, in some parts it is so; but
not hitherto much to aid such poor persona.
There are some parts now covered with decent streets
and decent habitations that used to be bad?—There
are few persons who know, but those whose duty it has
been, what is behind the curtain: you pass through a
decent street, and some of the streets even at the west
end of the town; but only get behind them, lift the
curtain up, and there is misery, filth, and wretchedness,
beyond what most people imagine, very often to be seen.

POLICE INTELLIGENCE.
MANSION-HOUSE.
RAILWAY MATTERS. Mr. E Scanlan, Mr. W.
Killick, and Mr. H. Flight, were brought before the
Lord Mayor, in the custody of John Forrester, upon the
charge of having conspired to defraud Mr. Margetson,
carpet manufacturer, of Aldermanbury, of 100/., under
the circumstances mentioned below.
Mr. Humphreys appeared for the prosecution, and Mr.
Hobler attended for the prisoners.
Mr. Margetson said, on the 30th of November, Mr.
Scanlan was brought to my office and introduced to me
by a Mr. Fennell, as a highly-respectable gentleman,
who wanted the advance of a sum of money on railway
' shares, upon which the company had advertised to re-
turn 1/. 12s. 6d. per share of the deposit of 2/. 123. 6d.
to the holder of certificates after the first of De-
cember. Mr. Scanlan confirmed the account given by
Mr. Fennell, and produced several pieces of paper
purporting to be certificates of the Direct Lincoln
East Retford and Sheffield Railway Company, saying
that the advertisement, stating the intention to return
1/. 12s. 6d. per share, appeared in the Times newspaper.
I told him I thought he had better go to the company's
offices and receive the money, but he said he was secre-
tary to a Railway Company himself, and he knew the
difficulty of getting directors together, and it was more
than probable the first time they were called together
the meeting would be postponed, and some time might
elapse before the payment of the money ; and as he was
in want of money to make up some differences, he would
rather make a little sacrifice than not be able to obtain
it. I asked him how much he wanted. He answered
100/. for two months, and he would give 51. for
' the use of it, and a bill, or promisory
note for the amount, as well as an authority
to sell the shares, which he offered as collateral security,
if the bill was not properly met. I asked him if they
were his own shares, and if they were allotted to him.
He replied that they had not been allotted to him, but
they were his own shares, and he had paid 31. premium
per share for them. I told him I should be glad to be
' referred to any one as to his respectability, and he told
me he could give me a reference both as to his respect-
, ability and his respoasibility, and he accordingly referred
me to Mr. Killick, No. 6, Bank-chambers, who, he said,
(lid a great deal of business for him. He left me a certi-
ficate of five shares, and I called next day at 6, Bank-
chambers, and saw Mr. Flight, and asked him
if his name was Killick. He replied in the affirma-
tive, and asked me what I wanted. I told him
I had been referred to him as to Mr. Scanlan's
respectability, and lie said it is all right ; the company
has advertised to return 1/.125. 6d. a share. Mr. Scan-
lan is a highly respectable man. We call him Doctor
Scanlan. If he had applied to us we should most wil-
lingly have let him have 100/., but I suppose he did not
wish us to know he wanted money. Then said I there
can be no risk in advancing the money. No, said he ;
and I than went away. When next I saw Mr. Scanlan,
he called my attention to an advertisement in the Times,
postponing the meeting till the 221 of December. I
told him I not quite satisfied to advance the money
without seeing the secretary to the company ; and I
asked him where the offices of the company were. He
said he did not think there was any office at all in town,
and that he had seen the Times advertisement of the sth
November, and there was no address given to it. I
said something about not parting with the money
till next day, but he stated that he wanted the money
very particularly, as he was obliged to go to the
country that evening, upon which I gave him a cheque
• for 1001., and I drew a bill upon Mtn for 105/. lOs.,
which he accepted, and, at the same time, he gave me a
letter, authorising me to sell the shares if the bill should
not be taken up. The odd money was, with ss. more, to
go to Mr. Fennell as commission.
The LORD MAYOR—As commission upon this bill
transaction ? Mr. Margetson—Yes. Next morning I
saw him in Aldermanbury, and he told me he had another
100 sh lres, and he wanted an advance of another 1001.
upon them. I made some remark as to his having fre-
quently said he had no more shares, and also as to his
having said he was going into the country last evening.
He replied that lie had dined in the country on the day
before, and he assigned as a reason for having more
shares that he had expected to get more money upon
them from another quarter, but had been disappointed,
and he preferred having his shares all in one hand to
hawking them about. He produced the Times of the sth
of November, and also the Times of the 2d of December,
to shew that the advertisement was repeated, as to the
intention to pay back 1/. 12s. 6d. a share. On looking
at one of them I observed the address No. 14, Fish-street-
hill. He left the other hundred shares with me, and I
called at the office of the company, at 14, Fish-street-
hill, four times without seeing any body. Mr. Scanlan
called upon me afterwards, and I put him off till two
o'clock next day.
Mr. Humphreys—Did you afterwards find out who
the solicitors to the company were? Witness—l did;
and I found out the secretary, and one of the directors.
Mr. Humphreys—And have you reason to believe,
from what you learaed from them, that the advertise-
ments were forgeries, and that those shares are merely
duplicate shares? Mr. Margetson—l have.
Mr. Hobler objected to the course of examination as
irregular.
Mr. Goodman (the Chief Clerk) said the magistrate
was justified in having questions put for his own satis-
faction, to enable him to judge of the animus with which
any act was done.
Mr. Humphreys said he should, on a future day, pro-
duce witnesses to establish the charge of conspiracy
bepond all doubt.
Mr. Margetson, in continuation, said—after I saw the
director, I saw Mr. Scanlan, and told him I found out
that the whole was a swindle, and it looked much as if
a fraud had been practised on me. I said the
advertisements were forgeries. He said he knew
nothing about it. I asked him then whose shares they
were, and he said they were Mr. Killick's. What, said
I, the very man you referred me to for your respecta-
bitty ?—(Laughter)—and the place where you have made
a bill payable? I then asked him how many shares he
had altogether? and he said 250, and if I was not satis-
fied with his bill, Killick would give me his bill for
the amount. Flight was present at the time, and said
the shares were perfectly good, and the advertisements
were not forged, and he did not think Killick would
have any objection to put his name on the bill. Doctor
B— was present at the time, and said he had seen the
secretary, who told him it was a genuine advertisement,
Its he had searched the Registry-office, and he knew
30,0001. had been paid up, and that money belonging to
the company had been removed from the original bankers
to a private bank of one of the directors at the West•end,
in order to prevent an attachment in the Mayor's Court
against it. Mr. Killick and Mr. Scanlan afterwards called
upon me, and Mr. Killick said he believed the shares to be
good, but they were not his shares. They belonged
to a Mr. Rogers, and he (Killick) merely put them into
Mr. Scanlan's hands to get an advance upon them, and
that he handed over the money to Mr. Rogers, and all
he and Mr. Scanlan got by the job was 5/. The witness
finally said that Killick completely shuffled out of the
business, and had not been seen by him since until he got
into the clutches of John Forrester.
Mr. Hobler submitted that there was nothing in the
statement which showed that a fraud had been committed
or intended. There were certain insinuations to the
effect that advertisements had been forged by his client,
and that the shares being duplicate shares, were of no
value. But there was nothing like a foundation. The
fact was, that the shares were like the shares in many
other companies, deteriorated by the panic, and they
had got into the hands of the prisoners, as they might
have got into the hands of any other speculators. Mr.
Hobler here produced a Leeds list of stock, in which no-
tice was given, under the head of " Deposits to be Re-
turned ;" that the Direct Lincoln, East Retford, and
Sheffield Railway Company was about to dissolve, and
that IL 12s. 6d. per share would be returned to the
holders of the certificates. The date of the list was up
to the 31st of December ; and he also exhibited some
newspapers, in which there was a similar notification.
The LORD MAYOR said there was primajiteie evidence
lslhtehuoldd details
of a gross fraud upoentheeetceodmpplalani, andnana heA
showed a regularly one
opportunity to bring forward the necessary witnesses in
order to arrive at a complete elucidation of the affair.
It was stated in the justice-room that the shares arc
worth about 2s. 6d. each.
The case was then remanded, but the prisoner was
informed that if Mr. Scanlan and Mr. Killick produced
good bail, each in 200/., nnel.if Mr. Flight produced two
in 1004, they should be liberated.

STATE OF TRADE.—There is no new feature in the
market to report this week, in consequence of the usual
Christmas holidays taking place. No alteration is at
present noticed in the prices either of yarns or nets,
but the unusual speculation still going on in the raw
material begins to wear a serious aspect, and must, if
continued, considerably affect the prices of yarns.—Na-
tiny/tam Review.
TAW VALE RAILWAY.—The directors have entered
into an agreement (subject to the approval of a general
meeting of shareholders) for the lease of their line to
the South-Western, on the following terms :—Five per
cent. on all paid up capital at present, and 5.1 when the
line is completed, and equal share of all profit after pay-
ing expenses.