The Sun.
London, England, 1847-04-30 00:00:00

OUT.DOOR RELIEF.

The Earl of SHREWSBURY presented several peti-
tions on out-door relief, and said that he trusted that if
ou: door relief were given it might be made compulsory.
TENURE OF LAND IN IRELAND.

The Marquis of LANSI)OWNE presented several
petitions praying for the abolition of villein tenure in
Ireland.

POOR-LAW (IRELAND) BILL.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that it had now
become his duty to move the second reading of the
Poor-law Bill for Ireland, and in doing so he felt that
he was inviting their Lordships to follow him in a path
beset with difficulties and with danger. He was aware
that, in taking measures 'for the relief of a people
on whom a calamity had fallen with a degree
of unusual intenseness they had to provide, not
only for human improvidence, but against the
consequences of an awful dispensation of Divine
Providence, and if they: reached the port which they
sought to attain, they must reach it by a course beset by
rocks and encumbered by shoals. They had to raise
out of the depth of misery into which it
was plunged a country which, without manufactures,
except to a very small extent, was yet to
be elevated to a state of active industry, and to enrich a
people by the efforts of industry, which, to render it
effective, required a capital which they did not possess—
to enrich a people which, without the appliances of
either manufactures or capital, yet possessed a popu-
lation equal to that of countries which possessed both.
Permanent remedies were to be found in other re-
sources. The only ground upon which he had to
ask their Lordships' assent to this measure was, that
it was an important and indispensable palliative
of • the evils existing in that country. Before
he stated to their Lordships what the Bill was, he would
state to them what it was not. The present Bill was
not a Bill conferring a general, indiscriminate, and per-
manent right to out-door relief in Ireland. If such
were the case, he should be the last person in the House
to propose to their Lordships the adoption of the
measure, because he believed that a measure of
that nature would be fatal to the property, and, above
all, to the character of the .people of that country.—
(Hear, hear.) The immediate effect of such a measure
would be to diminish the number and amount of the
producers,: already too small, and to increase the num-
ber acd amount of the consumers, already too large, and
it would tend also to destroy the relations which exist
in the country between landlord and tenant, and bring
the country into such a state that nothing but evil would
ensue. To meet the evils attendant upon such a
measure it would be necessary to have a power to compel
parties to produce, as the poor a ould by the operation
of such a measure be otherwise left to share a
diminished produce. Such would, in his opinion, be the
inevitable result of such a measure, and he was, therefore,
most decidedly averse to the petition, the prayer of
which had just been read to the House, the effect of
which would be to throw upon the landlords of
Ireland a still greater burden than they already
were compelled to bear. The object of that petition
was the most preposterous that had ever been sub-
mitted to the consideration of their Lordships.
But if their Lordships would act wisely, they would con-
sider that Divine law which controlled and regulated all
affairs. The dictum of the pious French author was—
" Remember that it is man that proposes, that
it is God that disposes." If their Lord
ships neglected that Providence which governed the
course of society, they would certainly repent their
legislation. and regret the evils inflicted by their deci-
sion, evils irreparable. He would, therefore, state his
opinion of the present measure boldly ; but, before pro-
ceeding to that he would allude to one observation. It
might be said, if he entertained so great jealousy, and
so great mistrust of that kind of relief which was called
a system of out-door relief, which many were anxious to
have enacted, if he thought it a principle which was so
dangerous, so calculated to divert from industry, and to
increase poverty, so mischievously adapted to the Irish
character, which was unhappily marked for a great
willingness to rely on charity,—if he saw all that evil,
it might be asked how he could propose adopting the
principle, even in a qualified degree as it was adopted, in
the measure proposed by the Government. It was true
that the principle of out door relief was surrounded by
evils. But their Lordships in legislating for any evil
must always look to the previous character of the nation,
its habits and its system, in order to provide a remedy.
No Noble Lord hearing him but must come to the con-
clusion that in order tolprovide, a remedy which should
effect the good of Ireland for the future, they must
contemplate a great and permanent change in the pur-
suits and habits of society.—(Cries of "Hear, hear.")
For to direct action, to regulate it, to make it safe and
innocuous, must be the object of their Lordship's House.
Whole districts must be affected in that change—dis-
tricts that had hitherto been only subjected to the spade
must be submitted to the plough, and whole crowds of
persons depending on the accidents of nature for their
subsistence, and losing that if nature failed, must be
changed. Nor was it only the lower classes that
must be subjected to the change; the proprietors
too must submit to the change.—(blear, hear.)
The present state of things must give way to a more
improved system, but he denied that the legislation or
the landed property of Ireland were amenable for the
present calamity which prevailed in that country. For
had they endeavoured to prevent the growth of the
potato, the legislature of the country and the people
would have made a just outcry against such an attempt.
It was only, therefore, by stimulating the landlords and
the peasants of Ireland to increased exertions that these
evils could be remedied. It would be idle to attempt to
state in what time the great changes which were desired
could be effected ; but he thought that during the time
of the transition it was incumbent upon them to provide
for the disorders which might occur during that time ;
and among the most prominent of these was to provide
for those who would be thrown out of employment. Now,
where were these persons to find assistance and support?
Who could be found to devise a measure calculated to
meet all the contingencies consequent upon these casual,
hut certain disturbances ? But unless the Parliament
and the Government of the country took some steps,
when the poor people were exposed to all the horrors
of famine, they would be accused of negligence,
indifference, and even with inhumanity. Their
Lordships had seen great calamities in Ireland
during the course of the present year, and they had seen
those calamities met by a degree of liberality which, he
would say, did honour to human nature. He would say
that these calamities had called forth that sympathy
which was the jewel which sat in the head of adversity.
They did not inquire whether the object of charity was
Irish or English, Catholic or Protestant, a Saxon or a
Celt; influenced by such considerations, he was happy to
say that those vile and miserable distractions was fast
fading away, in despite of the wicked and base endea-
vours of some,—(Hear, hear.) That sympathy had
mood the Atlantic, and had called forth, partly from

community of
of institution,

sentiment, and partly from a community
an amount. of exr,rtion which had prnihwerl,

in he had only yesterday been informed,
had had a rinn:trkahle effect, in all the ports of Ireland,
in reducing thzl price of food, and relieving the distress
which was so dreadfully prevalent. Among those
who had exerted themselves the most—those
who had been pre-eminent—who had been ever
distinguished for their exertions in the cause of charity,
and for the numerous instances of benevolence which
they had performed—were the Quakers. (Cheers.)
Now, no one, even those who were most remarkable tor
the force and power of their intellect, have ever b-en
able to suggest any provisional remedy for this trouble
during the state of transition, which did not embrace
some system of out-door relief. He trusted that their Lord-
ships had made themselves acquainted with the provi-
sions of the Bill; and the principle which it was now
his duty to propose was, that under certain modified
provisions, out-door r, lief would be administered to the
able bodied poor. By the first clause of that Bill (which
his Lordship read), it was decreed that it was advisable
that in certain cases of destitution relief should be granted
to the able-bodied poor. By the second clause it was
decreed that, although these cases should receive instant
relief, yet it was subject to the discretion of the Poor-
law Commissioners to regulate this relief. It might be
granted only for a period of two months, but if sufficient
cause be shown then that further relief, the amount of
which was to be defined by the Poor-law Commissioners
might be granted. It was proposed that out-door relief
should only be administered when the poor-house would
be full, and this he considered would operate as a check
against any considerable abuse. It was also provided,
that wi!li respect to all those whose yearly rent was
above 41., the rate should be equally divided between the
landlord and the tenant. There was another consider-
ation also, which, in addition to the great calamity which
now existed in Ireland, induced him to assent to this
measure, which was the general, but greatly misrepre-
sented, though not unnatural, complaint made in that
country respecting the absentees. He thought, however,
there were other places in this empire where absenteeism
existed to as great an extent as in many parts of Ire-
land. Another point in this Bill was that relieving officers
were appointed to relieve cases of great destitution ;
but this superintendence would be under the
surveillance of the guardians, and he did
not apprehend that any mismanagement would result
from this clause. Now this clause restrained the giving
of relief to any one possessed of more than a quarter of
an acre of land. The 11th clause made the expenses
after a certain rate per pound chargeable on the union
at large, and this clause he apprehended would effect
much good, as he thought it would stimulate employ-
ment, and might operate to prevent the injury towards
towns where the poor crowded in to procure employ-
ment. The clause for facilitating emigration by enabling
the guardians to levy one-third of the expense off the
union at large would, he considered, have a most bene-
ficial effect. The Noble Marquis after referring to some
other clauses, said that there were other measures
to go along with this Bill, and among them was
a vagrant Act. Their Lordships would see that
it would be necessary to accompany it with such
measures as would tend to improve the condition of the
country. Besides this Bill there was a measure for the
cnitivation of waste lands, and the Landed Property
Bill, from both of which he anticipated the best results.
There were other measures in addition, which, though
of a subordinate, were not of an immaterial nature.
There was a measure for the erection of piers, the im-
provement of the fisheries, and the establishment of the
curing stations; and he was happy to say, with regard to
these latter, that since their establishment, two months
ago, they had paid all expenses, and acted as a great
stimulus to the industrial exertion. Besides these, it
was proposed to advance a sum of 620,0001. to stimulate
the enterprise of the country, by advances to railways.
It was to these measures, and to the improvements
which they would effect, that their Lordships
must look as a palliation for the evils of
reland, and for the foundation of that permanent
good which they all desired for that country.
He was painfully reminded of the contrast which existed
between that scene of imperial splendour by which they
were surrounded, and the depths of that abyss of misery
for which they were e died upon to adopt some measures
of permanent relief. All that he prayed of their Lord-
ships was, that they would look with a clear and undaz-
sled eye from those splendid heights at the prospects of
want and destitution which pervaded a great portion of
the people for whom they were called on to legislate. No
man could doubt the existence of that distress, and
which existing, it was the solemn duty of their Lordships
to provide against. The Noble Marquis resumed his
seat amid loud applause.
Lord CLANCAIi.TY said that he thought that the
question was one which required the greatest considera-
tion. He felt great regret in rising to move the amend-
ment of which he had given notice. Millions of money
had been squandered by the Labour-rate Act, and that
was at the very time when it was necessary that all the
energies of the country should have been directed to the
cultivation of the land. This was one of the evils which
had its origin in ,hasty and inconsiderate legislation.
He did not ever consider that the principle of the Bill
%At's good. The first section gave an option of relief in
or out of the workhouse, to all save the able-bodied.
Now this clause would cause the workhouse to be re-
garded as a prison—as a place of punishment, by those
whom misfortune had reduced to the necessity of. seek-
ing aid. This should not be the case ; he considered
that those who received out-door relief would be better
satisfied to accept the minimum of relief sooner than go
into the workhouse. With regard to the 11th section of
this Act, it entirely did away with the charge upon the
electoral divisions, and in general its effects were likely
to act unjustly and unequally upon the districts it was
intended to benefit. Under the 15th section, a very se-
rious inconvenience would arise to the clergy. Under this
Act it was to be expected that the rates would very con-
siderably increase, and as the landlords under the
present system were unable to get their rents or
pay their rates to the clergy in full, how was
it to be expected that they could pay in full
when the demands upon them were increased ?
The promoters of this Bill also seemed to anticipate a
compact between the elected guardians and the ex-officio
guardians, and therefore they had taken care that their
numbers should not be otherwise than equal, in order,
probably, that they might fight it out upon fair terms.
Had due attention been paid to those reports, which
were accessible to Government and to Parliament, es-
pecially a report presented to that House in 1830, with
reference to the state of the poorer classes of Ireland ;
he thought that it would have enabled the Government
to bring forward a measure better calculated to improve
the social and moral condition of the peasantry of Ire-
land. Certainly the price of provisions from abroad had
been very much increased, and it appeared to him that
it was very barbarous to debar the poor Irish from the
only resource which they possessed. If England acted
by Ireland as she would be acted by, they would have a
sound poor-law, and he should, therefore, conclude by
moving that the Bill be read a second time this day six
months.

On the amendment being put,
The Earl of St.. GERMANS said, that the observa-
tions of his Noble Friend, who had just sat down, ap-
peared to him to have been addressed chiefly to
the first part of the Bill; and in saying that he was
cautious how he acceded to the principle of giving out-
door relief, he could not but acknowledge that some such
provision was absolutely necessary. But there was a
clause which commanded his approval, and that was that
which provided for the destitute, though they were in
health, for if it were to be denied, how was the
condition
of the beggar to be improved? It appeared,
,however,
that this relief was only to be administered by the boards
of guardians, under the direction of the Poor-law Com-
missioners, for a certain restricted period. To this he
was quite ready to assent, but he was by no means pre-
pared to give that assent without reference to the work-
house list. It was true that, by the report of the Commis-
sioners, it appeared that they were unfavourable to the
workhouses in Ireland; but by the passages which he
read to the House, it would seem that there was at least
an opportunity of granting the relief required by the
able-bodied but destitute poor. This relief would have
the effect of inducing the farmers and landowners of
Ireland to find a profitable employment for the poor.
Ever since 1835, this had been more and more
evident, and by the evidence of Mr. Griffiths, it
was seen that there were now more than five millions
of acres which required reclamation, and on which the
whole of the poor might be profitably engaged, and thus
they might be lifted from their present state of degra-
dation to one of comparative comfort and plenty. But
this could only be effected by their passing through a
state of transition which must of necessity be accom-
panied by the endurance of severe distress, and he re-
joiced that the measure of the Noble Marquis provided
for an evil which, however great, was, nevertheless,
inevitable. He could assure their Lordships that the
only requisite to render this measure effective was a
provision for the employment of the people. That this
was the case, was evident from the report of Capt. Chads,
of the Excellent, who had been engaged to pass through
certain districts, by the Government, and his report
stated that, in all his progress as far as Lough
Swilly, he universally found that the people did
not crave for food, but for employment by which
they might obtain the means of subsistence.
The period of 1839 was one of great excitement and
distress. The former had at any rate passed away, but
the principle still remained for repressing the evils which
were then complained of. The whole expense of the
poor-law in Ireland, during the year 1846, was 246,0001.;
in 1845 it was 298,0001., and the whole of the money
collected was 426,1161. Now, the real amount of the
property which was assessed in Ireland was 16,000,000/.
but it was generally taken at about twenty per cent.
less, and was therefore really estimated at 13,200,000/.,
and taking it at this amount, the rate would be about
sevenpence halfpenny in the pound, while, in effect, the
real amount collected, was only sixpence farthing. If
they turned to the returns of 1839, and there had been
none made since, they would find that the sum obtained
by voluntary contributions, and from the counties, for
the infirmaries, was 25,5571. That for dispensaries,
was, by voluntry contributions, 34,000/., with about
34,000/. obtained from the counties ; there was
then, a further sum from both these sources,
of 129,000/.; all these, and other contributions together,
made up 127,000/. Now, taking all these sums together
they would find that the whole of the rating of the land
was not more than tenpence halfpenny. Between that
sum and unlimited extravagance there was a very wide,
and as he considered it sufficient, margin. There was
evidently no disposition whatever to extravagance in
Ireland, and there was, therefore, no necessity whatever
for the interference of the board of guardians, and quite
sure was he that there was no necessity whatever for
doing away with the workhouse test, but that it would
be far better to leave the party of out-door relief to
them without the proposed restriction. It was com-
plained that the workhouses were quite insufficient for
the purpose. There are now workhouses in Ireland
with accommodation for 112,000 or 115,000 persons, and
in extraordinary times this might be insufficient, but

it should be recollected that in the " raPC
11r. Niehol it „, 41 tlwy
r It''in
lie had already said that he believed the v. orkhouse test
was necessary to the working c f the Poor-lay:, and he
was willing to believe that the Poor-law commissioner_
would do away with it. He must regret the practice of
the Noble Lord near him, of remarking upon Epeeehes
made in another place in the absence of those who made
them, and when there was no opportunity of reply. 11,8
said this in the very best irit and with no wish
to offend, The provisions of the Bill which ad,i
mated ex officio guardians to the board seem!'
objectionable, and the more so that the
were
was for Ireland ; because there the unions
sometimes very large, and the justices very nurnereq;
indeed so numerous as to out-number the regularlit
elected guardians. But rather than stand out ags
the whole Bill he would consent to such a compromise
as would authorise the election of a number of guardians
proportionate to the numbers of ex officio guardiall9'
There were some other amendments which he wished to
introduce into the Bill, and of which he might then give
notice. He thought the clause with regard to out-door
.
relief was bad, as leaving nothing to the discretion 01
the guardians. It positively restricted them from
out-door relief at all, such was the effect of it, and De
would propose to leave it out. The Bill would then
leave the relief to the discretion of the guardians theta'
selves. He would conclude with expressing his lice
that their Lordships would accede to this measure, as
connected with other measures for the good of the
people of Ireland, and the cultivation of the country.
But if they were to emasculate the Bill by amendaseu ou
ta.
he hoped they would rather reject the Bill altogether
the principle.
Lord MONTEAGLE was surprised at what bad fall
from the Noble Earl that night; but he was most of all
surprised that the Noble Earl should come to 01!
House—and against the speech of the Right Rev. na-
bishop of Dublin, and in favour of his own views—h("1"
quote the report made by the Commission of which thet
Right Rev. Prelate was at the head. No document more
severely denounced the principle of out-door relief. ,1,13,1
there was a document later and more recent than ."" t
Yet the Noble Earl had not alluded to that; he well%
the report from a Committee of their own House. ~did
begged to ask the Noble Earl whether that document oe
did not bear the interpretation which he gave to it.
would wait for an answer.
The Earl of St. GERMANS said he was most 1111 i
willing to take up the time of their Lordships, but he :he
mitted the interpretation given to the document
by
Noble Lord—a document drawn up by that Noble Loral
himself, in the presence of very few Peers, himself (Ear
of St. Germans) being the only English Peer present'
Lord MONTEAGLE granted the document t;
drawn up in presence of several of the PeeF,
now in the House ; and, to take the Noble
own terms, in the presence of the representative re'd
of England.—(Laughter.) That document eXPreBSt'jle
the opinions and the decision of that Committee, But
Noble Earl himself having been a member of it.
to-night the Noble Earl had pursued an entirely (ILI
ferent course of argument. But, said the Noble Bar
an emergency had come since that report had to
drawn up. The assumption was good for pa
merely tet);
porary measure, but for a measure which was t°
incorporated into the laws of the count=
. the arguments of the Noble Earl entirely fail.
There was not one shadow of authority for mainta(nFit„,
that view which was taken by Noble Lords opr"
They were placed in a peculiar position at present. The!
op,
had to deal with a Parliament of very short du 11
but were it otherwise, and that they were at the 0°113...;
mencement of the session, he would be able to prod%
the authority of experience. He confessed it would hable
relieved his mind from considerable anxiety if his 14)°,rie,
Friend could have proved to the House and the Pula-
with proofs, that experience would demonstrate its 'a1,14
cacy. A Noble Lord had made some admissions• to
said that the workhouse system was neeesstrY e,)
the working out of this measure.— Hear, "e.fino
But was there any such workhouse s/is'r'ds
in Ireland as would be equal to do so. Noble -o_o,
were not aware of what the unions in Ireland fe.,d_
There were only 130 workhouses, or unions, Irei7ilt;
while there were upwards of 600 unions in England,' are.
very circumstance of the few workhouses in Irelanybey
eluded the posssibility of the system working,• oties
were, therefore, handed over to deal with did there
which might, perhaps, be surmounted ; but then /low
were other difficulties which were insurmountable. .e.
was this Bill to be carried into effect ? One single
lieving officer was all that was to be afforded to eao.
union. Now, he would ask any Noble Lord, who win
acquainted, however slightly, with Ireland, could Pt!
en
for a moment, suppose such an arrangemt._
could work efficiently. Besides the powers that
were vested in the guardians would render the working
of this measure impracticable. He was told that these
were in tranquil
twheartesaelcl imhwaagginneatryticleaueseasee.of
If they
He would shoyw'
times—if they were in the times when the Poor law wee
first introduced they might have some hope that the re-
lief might be fairly administered. There were upwardsld
of 50,000 children in those workhouses whom you upwards
by removal deprive of the advantage of the workhouse
sTchheoolNs,olhvlheicht woredre
wamhoon
them that it would be accompanied hY
Bin had tO
not root out of the hearts of the Irish°
for the suppression of mendicity, but they con?"
people
ginsttrothdeuebedestthien the count%
he principle which led to mendicity, whiiech
was with them a moral and religious principle. Se
was sorry that his Noble Friend opposite had not given
them a more satisfactory statement. Looking at another
point which had been referred to, he regarded wit.,
great gratification the efforts that bad been made In
this country for the relief of Ireland, but he must say
Bill
that if they referred to the annals of Ireland they won':
find that there was more charity for the relief of
htahn,
poor, and for the administration of that relief, t
considering its circumstances, in any city
If this measure would have the effect of infusing
e•
condition of' the country, developing its resources,hcap. e
bilities, and stimulating its industrial .
eh_
thought the money-charge incurred by it, would
.1).06.
very subordinate consideration ; but he did not think
that there could be a greater fallacy than to suppost!
that
a better system of agriculture could be introduced byli
or that increased employment would be one of its
con-
sequences. What the Irish people wanted was inoneY
in Euron
stimulants, but how, he would ask, were these to be sup
plied by the present Bill? He maintained that it won
have the very contrary effect, and not only diminiscah
he
means, but take away all motives to exertion from the
people of Ireland. He thought the clause2s. 01
6d.,
distributed the supplies of rating would
do the
out of the union, was one which
would cause a
towns more harm than good, as
it.
greater influx of the paupers in
There was no greater delusion than i rite
attributed to this measure the cessation of Irish ein
g
Lion into England. He thought it unwise and illogical,
al
to anticipate this effect. If it raised the rate of wo
ift
it might lessen the emigration into this country, but
lowered the rate of wages no such result would follow.
Now, that it would have the effect of lowering the rate
of wages, and consequently increase emigration, he
twowhinci
s
would appeal to the working of the Englishtotghat poor-law►
and ask them if the administration of out-door relief
had not the effect of lowering the rate of wages in this
country. He was
rpsupported isonttehmtehrisos,
fv
taMhelia:vrage the effect of increasing the imports
tion I
wioeuhwtodboywo outdoor rhreee reliefthe
Ireland
or iptr ni oonf
wouldMthr; in
which they proposed to levy
tion of Irish paupers into this
the method in whicht
which he felt to the measurelandlords,upocnoutnhtery. Theobjbeucttiotno
the fund collected.---( Hebaery, washper
proposed
e tdo
tt
oh e amountexexpend
times the Government had promisedar. toAtencvoaurrisoltgl:
an agricultural education. If that had been
done when they introduced the national system of edu-
cation in Ireland, if they had instituted schools for agri-
culture, they would never have witnessed the dreadful
scenes which were now daily occuring in that country'.
He would merely say, in conclusion, that the measure
was intende_d to be perpetual, and that its advocates
based their advocacy of it upon arguments which only
sprung from a temporary emergency.
The Earl ST. GERMANS said that the Noble Lord
had misinterpreted his arguments in a great man/
particulars.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE supported the
Bill, and entered at some length into a refutation of y
arguments of the Earl of Clancarty and Lord 1101,3,8
eagle, respecting the system of out-door relief'.
would ask if the people of Ireland were in that la.
happy state in which they were represented to bet;
awalfoltouewrl d
taihtl
snotateobhe
raebmemat better
nars
utirone affordtahseir thatt
presenth emp rsoopmosestearctieel
w?i e
ttsf,
11:1101300ndi
which was only a matter of justice to Ire'atee
asit would stimulate industry, and develops 'I.)
industrial resources of the country (Hear, ye bad
thatarr yl
laws
st
weretlie Ina
His Noble Friend who had moved the.—ainendinely to
carry
that the poor law guardians would be 11,11ingeW
ut mw aseritelywarsollisntoenfdpeadrethombeen. :41,-lidettywititt
had
Isoremlaehadl.lowlanneceermtauinsteblaessmesadoeefor the state of, s°,;o-11
been effected in their habits, asnocdieittyonalyr.erveorarualoldf
the
r
them to encourage the change which had begun.„-pr sta
farmers would not, or did not, see their own
inboperation of this law and the changed state of
clearly, they, above all men, would be ruined " the
it
socleVeir
would induce. If the gentry, also, did not lend tnre.
countenances to the measure, and see that it was Pews
perly carried out, they also would go against their
~fr.
interests and be ruined. The working oche law ue,
pended upon themselves ; and, if they isot S__
that it was properly carried out, how were they to leg!.
late for such a state of soeiet ? He did not, howevel:
believe that such would be the case, and he thought the'
the people would have a greater regard for their own
interest and welfare and that of the country, than to sir
ciently. The magistracy and gentlemen
that this law was administered improperly and
yineere
were
for
alive to the actual necessity of taking active steps _
the proper administration of the law. They kneovv.
well that if they did not, the paupers 1
the country, would so far increase in numbers, that
Herbs -
they would eventually be too strong for them.
eat
lieved that eventually this measure would confer a g
and lasting benefit upon the people of Ireland.
generall
The Archbishop of DUBLIN said, that reference h;
been made to a speech of his upon a former occasion i
I
r 1
which he said that he did not give high wages. BY "'a
expression he did not intend to convey that he g,"
lower wages than the man could obtain anywhere el!e•
He gave his labourer such wages as should induce hie:
to work, and would not have a tendency to discourag
him from labour. He had acted upon the plan of gng
employment, although not actually in need of labourers;
in order to save the persons from becoming paupers, o
being in distress, until they could obtain employment
elswhere. Such a course was pursued by tacit agree;
ment among the landed proprietors, and in fact it w!a
understood, that as far as they could, they should, in
time of distress, keep the labourers of their districts sat=