The Sun.
London, England, 1812-07-08 00:00:00

IRISH POTATOE TITHE BILL.

The Adjourned Debate on the Potatoc Tithe
Bill being resumed—
Sir W. Scorn opposed it, as an unjustifiable
attack upon the 'property of those who had an in-
terest in tithes. The supporters of the Bill were
bound to justify so strong a measure, by clear and
satisfactory arguments ' • but the reasons set forth
in the preamble of the. Bill were, in his opinion,
the most insignificant ever stated to Parliament.
If the Bill should succeed, there was an end of
the provision made by their liberality for the la-
borious Clergy. „If there was any oppression in
the present mode of collection, the way to remedy
it washy altering that mode, not by extinguish-
ing the tithe altogether—an expedient which,
though it-might be more- simple, was certainly less
rational and less just: -The-great object proposed
by the Honourable Mover was. the relief of the
poor cottagers ; but it would be a much more con-
siderable relief to them to exempt them- from the
payment of rent; an expedient which jfai never
suggested itself, though. it was not in its nature
less violent than that which was proposed at pre-
sent. lie thought the evil did not exist, and even.
if it did, he did not think the present an adequate
remedy. He concluded with moving as an amend-.
merit, that the Bill should be read a second time
that day three months. . . ,
Mr. BARHAM thought that. the_ Church should
in every way . possible be rendered a benefit, and
not an oppression to the poor. Cu.stoul/2 and feel-
ing bad controuled the Clergy of this country, and
he was sure many of. the Clergy of •Irelancf; but
where that custom and
,that feeling did not ope-
rate, it was of importance that some interposition
should.be adopted. by the Legislature. The Right
lion. Baronet surprised him greatly, when he
spoke of the laborious Church of Ireland, as he
had always- understood it was. one of the richest
and most idle, owing partly to the want of a Pro-
testant- Congregation in the more remote parts.
Many of the Clergy, he was persuaded at the same
time,- acted in a most exemplary_and active man-

tier.
Mr.. HAwKiNs (BROWNE thought the Hon.
Gentleman confounded tithe with taxes and poor-
rats. He never would agoe that the property of
the Clergy stood upon the same foundation with
that of the, nobility and gentry—it was connected
with and. dependant on their duties. He was
against the principle of the Bill, for if one half-
penny was- due to any individual, it was as much
a matter of claim and of right, as. if it was a sum
_of the greatest magnitude. He believed that the
evil of the poor of Ireland was tl3e high relit of

rOMAS WOOD, or No. Maiden-sane, Coven-garden; and
..... 5 1!) W. A SA7II i.rd• Anit.A.br#;..oia.astio I.lralo-rk fr:

their cottages, 'but • that evil Wa.i not to lie pro-
yided against by Parliament, or, if it I.as, the
eat exemption from tithe Iwould not. effect it. The
only consequence of such a step would be, to take
nroperty of the clergy in order to add to that
G landlord.

Lcrd DYSKUT disapproved of the principle of
the. Bill, sus beingdestrue-tiye ..of a property gua-
rAnzeed by the Constitution ; . at the same time ho
was most anxious for a commutation of the present
system of collection in Ireland., If paupers were
to be exempted hy means of this Bill, the Clergy:
would demand their full tenth from all others, so
that it would operate as._ an oppressive act upon
the remaining members of the community.
Mr. TRED.ct-t„ in a very improsive speech, set
forth the hardships under, which the
,peasantry of
Ireland laboured. Their distress and misery were
such that their situation was worse trial' that of
the pitipers in England. To improve the CoUdi-
tion of Ireland, he thought it was desirable that
every encouragement should _be given to her agri-
culture, and that she should, be ‘.`.coaxed;" if he
might use the- expression., to pdt forth all her in-
dustry. With this feeling he recommended the
most conciliatory line.: of conduct to the adoption
of Parliament, and hoped the:Bill would be suf-
fered to go to -a Committee.
Lard CASTLERE AGH said, every one must be
anxious to relieve the misery.of the lower orders
in-Ireland ; but whether or not the present mea-
sure would contribute to that end might be a sub-
ject of dcubt. He. had, on a former occasion,
deprecated the statementS made with respect to
the conduct of a Mr. Morgan. , He had now tO
state that he had- received a letter from Mr. Mori
gall, in which he expressed, himself to have felt
much anguish of mind on account of what had
passed in that House. He . denied the truth of
the statements whiell ha&been made, and repre-
sented himself on. the point of conning to England
to prove that. they'were unfounded.. He (Lord
C.) lamented that. statements so affecting the
character and peace of an individual Shodld have
been Made. Ile felt himself obliged to oppose
the Bill in its present stage. It'i.Vas not a Bill
that went to make a commutation-of tithes, 'but
one which-went ultimately to transfer the 'pro,
perty of the Church to the, landed interest of the
country. He was not persuaded that . the mea,
sure was one which would prove beneficial to the
cottagers ; on the contrary, he thought it•would
have the effect of making him pay to as large, if.
not a -larger-amount, tothe landlord; than he now
paid to the Church. He hoped the Honourable
Gentleman would not believe hi..-vt to be less sin-.
eerely anxious for a commutation of tithes, if it.
could be .effeeted withcut violating the prineiple.
of property, because he opposed this Bill. The
principle of the present Bill. admitted-, (there was
no knowing how far it might be carried, and he
thought it was desirable that .it should not go
abroad)., that Parliament were disposed to relieve
the indigent out of the funds. -belonging to an'i
one particular cass of the community.

Mr. TIGHE contended that the ehantcter of Mr.
Morgan had not been unfairly attacked, as his
Right Hon. Friend had only stated that which he
had under Mr. Morgan's Own hand. He had wzly
read a letter which he had in Mr. Morgan's handl
writing. It had been 'contended, that no exemp-
tions from tithes were allowed by the law of the
land, and.that the present system was not an evil.
He could prove that there were on the statutes,-
three exemptions, viz.:-Ist. The exemption
granted to those who undertook to improve'
mountain or bog-land. N. The exemption
granted to allgrasS land. Here it'would be seen,
that exemption could be granted to the rich, who
undertook to clear the bogs, or' raise hemp, and to
the rich grazier, while it was denied to the poor
peasantry, and then they were told that there was
no such piaci* recognized • by the law of the
land. Ile did not wish relief to be. given without
making a proper indemnification to the Clergy ;
and if the House would suffer, the- Bill to go to a
Committee, it would then be easy to point out
what would be the best indemnification to give.—'
He then went itlto d description of the distress of
the Irish Cottager, and proceeded to point out the
pe.euhar hardshipi attendant on the present mode
of collecting the tithe on potatoes. The tenth
part of a potatoe crop could not be put iby by
the peasant in the same manner as the tithe of any
other produce might. The peasant depended on them
for the support of his family, and he was obliged
to dig them up daily or to starve. The 'Proctor.
then ek- me and said—" Pay me my demand," (one
or two guineas, or whatever it might be) " or ex-
pect a citation to the BishOtis Court. I put my
mark on our rick, and if you put your spade in
the ground again till I am paid, I will prosecute
you; or cite you to the Bishop's Court." That
was to say, " I will adopt the mode most likely
to enforce my 'demand, and consequently the
mode most likely to distress you." Placed in
this situation, the poor peasant was .obliged to
sell, perhaps, all he pos,,essed in the world, to,
borrow, or to steal, to satisfy the demands of the
Proctor. He wished the Bill to be taken into
cOnsideration, andthen they could coni4„sr what
indemnifiCatiou it would be. proper to grant to the
Church. • •

Lord DYSART explained. •
Losrd JOCILTIC stated, that he had received a
communication frtraa .Mr. Iviorgan-, in which he
denied what. had been advanced, and declared it
to be intetion to come to England in the
course of the week.

DEF.NARD • otpyestieil hid, determinatlon to.
'support any measure that. relieved the *poor of
Ireland front the oppression Of Tithes, and he
canceived that no proposition went inure to ame-
liorate the situation of that class o'f people that
most Wanted it than that now before the house ; '
he wished it to, be considered, that this sinail. relief
was not to come entirelyfrom the Ciergy, as there
are many Lay proprietors in every County.in
land; who by this measure would alSo contribute.
He did not think that the fill went, far enough,
and should it go into• Committee, he should feel
it his duty to propose, that all land that has nbt-
paid potatoe tithe heretofore should in future be
exempt. 1 u the. County he represents tithe has been
forced from people in nine parishes on articles that.
never before paid tithe, and for the recovery of

ruhlizted by WILLIAM ARMIGER SCRIPPS; South MUltOn-strect, Gros:
thp Printr_ Lattars for the rxiot paid), must be ildkes,t3.l.

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•Or'•
HIGH WATIZII Ni" LONDON B!tII)ti.L: 10-Moh*- 3,
Morning, 40 tuit. afo:r 5