The Sun.
London, England, 1840-03-07 00:00:00

1 dale and the other parties had pursued —( Hear, hear.)
I They had decided that the Courts of Law had
been al right, and that the proceeeings of that House
had been wrong.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) By the
decision to which they had just come, they would hiferrn
toe country that they were no longer prepared to support
the privileges of the House, but that they would succumb
to the Courts of Law, and a ere prepared to go prostrate
to the bar of the House of Lords.—( Hear, hear, and cries
of " No, no.") He trusted that some lloa. Member would
move for the discharge of all the parties, and he would
support it.—( Cries of " Move, move.") He could not
make such a motion then, because there was an amend-
ment before the House; but if no other Member did, he
would (nettle first opportunity,because nothing could ha more
unjust or preposterous than to retain those parties in cus-
tody after they had acknowledged by their own proceeding
that evening that those parties bad been right, mid they
had been wrong. The House had been placed in its pre-
sent predicament through the vacillating weakness of the
Government, and their own turbulent and factious con-
duct.--( Cries of " Oh, oh.") As Conservatives he did
expect they would have yieleed obedience to the laws of
their country.—(Hear, hear.) Did the law of Parlia-
ment constitute no portion of that law. —. (Great
cheering.) And was the law of Parliament of
less importance because the rights and privileges of the
people were involved? Yet, when acting judicially, what
had been the conduct of the minority of that House. Why
they had invited the people to violate the law. Even
an Hon. Gentleman who, out of the House, held a judicial
situation, when the Sheriffs were brought to the bar,
jumped from his seat with the utmost animation, and
cheered most vociferously as a Judge, a person who was at
the bar as a culprit.—( Laughter, and cries of
" Oh, oh.") Suppose, when the case of Frost
-and the other prisoners was discussed, the other
day before the fifteen Judges, the six Judges who
were in a minority, had said " this is tyrannical, unjust,
cruel ; we advise the Chartists to resist your decision ; it
is infamous ; you ought not to adopt such a course; it is
contrary to all law.''—( Cries of " Oh, oh," and Hear, hear,
hear.) That was the conduct which a minority of that
House had pursued—(Cheers)--and by that conduct they
had invited the opposition out of doors, which had laid
that House prostrate before the Judges and the House of
Lords.—( Hear, hear.) Seeing then the contemptible
and paltry position they occupied, and seeing to
what a low pitch of degradation they had reached, he
would ask, were they prepared to add to that degradation,
and to bring on themselves a greater degree of indigna•
don ? Ho trusted the Sheriff would be discharged, and
discharged unconditionally.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.)
He hoped there would not be a division upon
the motion, but that all the parties would after the bring-
ing in of that Bill, be liberated as a matter of course.—
( Hear, and laughter.)
Lord J. RUSSELL must, after the speech they had
just heard, say a few words.—(Laughter.) He hoped the
Hon. Member in the official discharge of his other duties,
charged the Jury with rather more accuracy than he had
evinced that evening.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) The
Hon. Member had stated that what the House had decided
was, that Stockdale and Howard, and the other parties
were in the right, and that they were in the wrong. If
that was the way in which the Hon. Member generally
;wed the issue for the information of an enlightened
jury, he was afraid the Hon. Member must very often mis-
lead them.—(Laughter.) The question before the House
was with regard to the Sheriff in confinement, and the
medical evidence that had been given upon his case. He
( Lord John Russell) had doubted whether there was suffi-
cient to justify him in bringing forward a motion on the
subject. As he had stated the other night, the general
rule was laid down upon the ground of danger to life, but
this case was of a different kind, although he admitted it
seriously affected the health of the Sheriff. He could not
agree to the proposal that the Sheriff should be liberated
on bail—( Hear, 'hear.) If they did that they might
incur some danger of raising a new question in the Courts
of Law with respect to their powers.--( Hear, hear.) He
thought the best course the House could pursue would be
to liberate him on the ground of the illness stated by Dr.
Chambers, for a certain time, naming a day, say three
weeks hence, on which he would be required to attend.
After a few words from Mr. PR YME,
Captain POLHILL observed the notice he had on the
paper last night was, in substance, that which the Noble
Lord had now proposed. He objected to the motion of
the Right Honourable Baronet the Member for Pembroke
because he was opposed to placing the Sheriff
in the degrading situation of having to give bail. He
hoped the suggestion of the Noble Lord (J. Russell)
would be adopted.
Mr. GREENE made a few observations that were not
audible in the gallery.
Mr. HUME wished to ask the Right Hon. Baronet op-
posite whether the course now proposed would uphold the
credit and dignity of the House. He thought the best
way would be to add to the motion the names of Stock-
dale and the other parties, and liberate the whole of them.
Sir R. PEEL always made a point of answering the
questions of the Hon. Member for Kilkenny—( Laughter)
—although he never had any other proof of that Hon-
ourable Member's confidence, except his asking him
questions when he was in difficulties.—( Renewed laughter.)
He hoped the House would not permit any d fference as to
the policy of bringing in a particular Bill to induce them
to overlook what was fit to be done in an individual case.
He had already stated that he was not prepared to vote
for the absolute discharge of the Sheriff, on the evidence
of Dr. Chambers, but he thought that there was suffi-
cient on the face of that evidence to justify them in miti-
gating the severity of his confinement. The Right Hon.
Baronet here read some extracts from the evidence of Dr.
Chambers, and proceeded to observe that if after such a
statement anything occurred to Mr. Sheriff Evans
that House would have little cause of satisfaction. Where
the case was one of a prisoner under the preroga'ive of
the Crown, he would leave the Crown to deal with it;
hut where it was the case of a prisoner of their own, he
thought they would be justified in granting some relaxa-
tion. He thought, on the whole, that the proposition of
the Noble Lord to release the Sheriff for a stated period
was the best that could be made, because even now he
(Sr R. Peel) would vote against the total discharge of
the Sheriff, and he did not think that in taking that course
they were making the slightest submission to the Courts
of Law.—( Hear.)
Capt. POLHILL wished to know if the Noble Lord
required the attendance of Mr. Sheriff Evans again—whe-
ther he would be again incarcerated ?—( Cries of Order.)
Sir JAMES GRAHAM had no objection to withdraw
his amendment for the purpose of substituting, in confer-
mity with the suggestion of the Noble Lord, that after a
consideration of the evidence of Mr. Freeman and Dr.
Chamber., Mr. Sheriff Evans be discharged from custody,
and that he be ordered to attend the bar of the House on
Monday, the 6:h of April.
Mr. HUME hoped that the motion would be for the
discharge of Mr. Sheriff Evans, without introducing the
pretence of sickness.—( Cheers.)
Sir J. GRAHAM thought it was most unparliamentary
to assert that he had assigned a reason for the discharge of
the Sheriff which was merely a pretence
Mr. HUME did not mean to say that the Right Ba-
ronet was privy to the pretence in any way, but he thought
it a pretence, and the public would think the same.
Mr. HAWES was surprised that the Right lion. Ba-
ronet the Member for Temworth should find a reason for
the discharge of the Sheriff in the evidence of Dr. Chain-
hers, when upon that very evidence upon a f -rtner night he
had objected to the Sheriff being discharged from custody.
lie was convinced that the public would take the same
view of the case as the Hen. Member for Kilkenny, and
believe it to be a mere pretence ; he hoped sonic one
would move for the discharge of all the persons who were
confined for the same cause as the Sheriff. He believed
the same medical evidence might be obtained respecting
each of these individuals.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM explained his statement re-
specting Mr. Freeman's testimony.
Lord HO WICK said the proposal of his Noble Friend
appeared to him scarcely less objectionable than that of
the Right lion. Gentleman. Mr. Evans was not affected
by any particular acute disease, but was of an unhealthy
etate of body generally—it, therefore, appeared to
him that the proposition of his Noble Friend
could be attended with no satisfactory effect. His former
proposal was that Mr. Sheriff Evans should be kept in
custody in the country, but Dr. Chambers said that would
be of little effect, because he was suffering in mind. He
( Lord Howick) thought the object of imprisonment was to
affect the mind—if it were not it was useless. He wished
the Right Hon. Gentleman would leave out of his motion
the words " upon the evidence of Mr. Freeman and Dr.
Chambers," and he thought the motion was nothing less
than for the entire liberation of Mr. Sheriff Evans.
Colonel SIBTH 0R P said that if the Noble Lord
proposed the Sheriff should remain in the custody of a
messenger, he should certainly vote against him.
Mr. HUME moved the omission of the words "in con-
sideration of the evidence of Mr. Freeman and Dr.
Chambers," upon which the House divided, when there
appeared— _ _ _

For the Amendment 47
Against it
Majority -82
On our admission to the gallery we found--
Mr. ELLIOTT on his legs, and contending that as
the Right Hon. Baronet did not consider the evidence of
Mr. Freeman sufficient to authorize the release of the
Sheriff, when it was first given, he was inconsistent in now
proposing that release. He contended, that by their con-
duct in releasing the Sheriff, they were materially
altering their position, and he took it for granted
that to-morrow they would have some medical man
coming and saying that Mr. Howard had a severe run-
ning at the nose—(Laud laughter)—that the mucous
membrane of the nose communicated with the chest, and
that if the inflammation of the nose extended to the chest,
it might be possible that consumption might be produced
—(Loud laughter)—and on that ground they would be
quite as much justified in voting for his disc..arge as for
that of Mr. Sheriff Evans to-night. They would always
have a man committed for contempt suffering from a sore
throat, or a pain in his toe—( A laugh)--or some such im-
portant malady, if by so doing he could obtain his dis-
charge.—.( Loud laughter.)
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE, having from the first opposed
the incarceration of the Sheriffs, would move as an amend-
ment that the direction, ordering his attendance at the
expiration of three weeks, be omitted.
Sir E. SUDDEN said that he had voted with the
Noble Lord for the introduction of his Bill, because he
understood that then. was to he a compromise
on the occa-
sion. He therefore believed that the motion to give a tem-
porary relief to the Sheriff would meet with the general
approbation of the 1-louse.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE should say that foe his part he
had entered into no compromise witt; any one, and he had
coastal:oy voted at-:-a.;141 the imprisonmen't of the Sheriffs
Mr. lIORSMAN said that, not understanding the
merits of the question himself, he had placed his judgment
in abeyance on it, and followed the example
of the Noble Lord and the Right Hen. Baronet. He now
found that they felt themselves placed in a situation of
great difficulty, and that they were desirous of retracing
their steps. and, therefore, he was sorry he had hitherto
trus'ed to the Noble Lord and this Right lion. Baronet.
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