The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-02 00:00:00

attention, for organising a body to proceed to New Zealand,
under the command of Capt. Tulloch. The object was two-
fold. They proposed sending, under the charge of 6 officers,
a body of 500 men, with their families, for the purpose H
e hoef
being located there, under certain advantages to whitr
d. e
would allude more fully at another
would state, however, that they were to be locateit
in settlements, and to perform certain duties for atpoeelod otc
seven years, at the expiration of which they were h be. pa
into possession of the land with the view of their etoming
valuable settlers in the colony. They would afford a de-
be called
fence to the colony, and would lee liable•shoort they would,out
for that purpose by the Governor,.
be was quite sure, at a moderate expense.nbe the meansof doing
great service to the colony in a wholesome and proper way.—
(Hear, hear.) The general charge, of which this was an item,
was 291,0001., making an increase of 61,6771., for which
16,939/. had to be deducted, so that there would be an increase
in the vote of 45,000/. It had been stated that there
was an increase of 9,0001. in the superannuation allowances ;
but this was not the case, as the expense of this year would be
similar to the last. These were the details of the non-effective
service, in which there was a grim, increase of 254,890/. ; but
there wa3tobe set against that 218,9711., which really reduced the
increase to only 35,911 ; but if that was taken from the de-
crease in the effective service 62,617 e, it would show a de-
crease upon the revenue of the year of 46,860!., (as we under-
stood). He thought the Committee would admit that the
War-office had paid attention to economy in framing the esti-
mates for the ensuing year. Before, however, he closed this
part of his statement, he wished to allude to one ob-
servation—to an observation which had fallen from the
Honourable- Member for Montrose—a statement which
he believed he made somewhat accidentally—he said every
department seemed to think it their euty to make their
estimates as high as possible, but for his department he ( Mr.
F. Maule) might say, that its object was to make the estimates
as low as possible, and if he would consult those who were in
the service f that department. and those who were seeking
to gain anything from it, he would find that his statement was
entirely erroneous.—( Hear.) With regard to the efficiency of
the army, he would not say another word further than this—
that its efficiency was such as it ,always had been, and such as
he trusted it would always maintain. With respect to the un-
healthy state of the barracks in the West Indies, and in Jamaica
and other parts, he might state that black troops were in the
habit of doing duty in many of these placer., instead of the white
troops ; and he might stare that the mortali. y in these islands,
with the exception, perhaps, of Cuba, was 1 3-10ths per cent.
From a return which he held in his hand. showing the healthy
and unhealthy islands, it appeared that in the Mediterranean,
up to the 31st of March, 1846, the mortality was 1-30th per
cent. ; and in the year 18.36, 2 3Oths ; in the United States,
Canada, and Bermuda, up to March, 184 e, 1 3-10ths; in
1836, 2 1-1011; in New South Wales and the Cape of Good
Hope, in 1846, it was t 4-10ths, and nearly the same in 1836 ;
in St. Helena, the Mauritius, and Jamaica, in 1846, it was
1 9-10ths per cent. ; and in 1836 it was 91 men in every 1,000.
But the improvement of the, rations, and the improved con-
struction of the barracks had done much to improve the health
of the troops. In the unhealthy stations, in Ceylon, for in-
stance, h.. might etete that the whole mortality was greater
than could be wished at the present moment, a, it was
4 4-10ths per cent. ; but, in 1836 it was 7 5-10ths per rent.
In Hong-Kong it was also considerable, but he hoped, by the
aid of colonial troops instead of British troops, that less sacrifice
of life would take place. He had all the means of knowing the
mortality in India, but he had little means of con-
. trolling it. He hoped, however, that it would be
considerably reduced by the introduction of improvements
No man was more impressed with the importance of these
improvements than the Noble Lord who held supreme com-
mand in India, and he hoped when his mind was less occupied
with the sondition of India, that he would realise the intention
he had often expressed of introducing improvements in the
barracks, and that before he retraced his homeward steps, he
would have formed some plan of residence of the troops in
India, whilst not required in the field, in barracks
erected in healthy situati ins, in the highlands, and
particularly in the mountains above Madras, for
those in that part of India. Witli respect to the
moral training going on in the army, he proposed taking a vote
of 2,0410/. for establishing schools in connexion with the Mili-
tary Asylum. They proposed establishing a school for the
training of schoolmasters - a model school--on the principle of
the regimental schools, and an infant school fir the orphan
children of British soldiers. This grant was proposed by his
Noble Friend who had preceded him in his office, and in future
}rears the army would look on him with gratitude. He be-
lieved it would lead not only to the education of children,
but be the means of imparting education to the
adult soldier, which, perhaps, might be the means
of enabling him to do something for his support in old age,
whether pensioned or not pensioned. The army libraries had,
be was happy to state, been increased by 10,000 volumes during
the year, and he proposed taking a vote of 2,0001. for a similar
purpose. With regard to the discipline in the army, he had
only to state, and he experienced satisfaction in doing so, that
since January last up to the close of the year, only five
cases of corporal punishment had occurred ; and he
expected to see, in a short space of time, the practice of in-
inflicting such a punishment dying away al t ogether.—(Chcers. )
The army prisons were winking well—as well as could pos-
sibly be wished. There were nine et Case prisons in Great
Britain and Ireland, of which four were in Ireland and one in
S':otland, but there were cells in all the barracks, and from the
returns he had received, which were most sati4actory, he
found that their effect upon the morels of the soldiers was
most important, as the soldiers were separated from the conta-
mmatien of the civil gaols. The improvement in this respect was
one of the most important ever introduced into the British army;
whereas it took days aed reeks, and sometimes months, under
the old system, to make a man available to his regiment.
There is eo one instance of any soldier being in the least de-
gree injured by the punishment ; arid however violent they
were, geeng in. they in all instances came out be, ter ; whereas,
under the old system, the soldier going into the civil gaul never
came out be' ter. The labour inithe prison was severe, and com-
plaints were mode against it, but he was not disposed to
attend to them, as long as it did no injury to the men. The
labour was so severe, and such was the vegilence exercised, that
no soldier was known voluntarily to go into p •i.on, fir the pur-
pose of shirking duty, and there was no man who went in that
did not come out, most heartily intending to do his best not to
go in again. Those were the especial points to which
he would at present allude. There were other matters to which
the attention of the Government would be turned by degrees.
more particularly to the comfort of the soldiery in the barracks.
The proposal which he should have the pleasure of making for
the purpose of limiting the service of the soleiery. would prove
to the army at large the anxious care of the Government over
their interests, and he did trust that, following up what he saw
to be the feeling of the House—namely, that the army was a
service the interests of which in some respects had been too
long overlooked—they would attend to their comforts
with a greater mi ititenet 9, for let the Hove believe h:m when
he assured it, that the more they took care of the soldiery in
the time of peace the mere disposed they would be to serve
them faithfully in the time of war. —( Hear, hear.) He did
trust that consistently with the malims which it was
the duty of the Government to inculcate, that they
would be able to promote the happiness and welfare of
the soldiers, and that they would induce the people
of the country—not the outcasts and refwe of society—to enter
the service, to esteem it as an honourable pridession in which
they might eneourage their children to emba-k, in which at-
tention will be pats to their moral training, and from which
they would receive t-ern back improved avid worthy members
of society.—( Loud cheers.)
Mr. WILLI .1 NIS sail that the statement which had been
made by the Right Hon. Gentleman was the clearest and most
able exposition which he ever had the pleasure of hearing since he
had the honour of having a seat in that House. He did
intend to have proposed a reduction of twenty thousand men,
but, on consulting with his friends, he had received very little
encouragement, and seeing no possible chance of success he
did not intend to interrupt the harmony of the debate. His
friends around him, and lie himself, had great confidence that
the present Government would be in office next year, when
the-e estimates would be again voted, and that then a very
great reduction would be made.
General Sir DE LACY EVANB said he experienced
very great satisfaction indeed from the statement made by the
It ght lion. Gentleman. He hoped that the Government
would turn their attention to the establishment of discipline
companies, which had been done in almost all oilier services.
He would also point the attention of the Government to the
accommodation afforded to the soldiers in barracks, es hich was,
exceedingly deficient, there not being more than one tote' be-
tween each of the keds in most of them.—( Hear,) •
Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT said he was very well ple'ased •
at the statement made by the Right Hon. Gentlem iii his •
ceesor in office. He hoped that the Government wonla en-
deavour to introduce more extensively the syjerh cif :rewards
and examination. ;
111 r. ETWALL said he was disappointed fo 'find thp
amount of eight or nine thousand pounds voted for th43irop.3o!
01 education in the army. He would express his
,Nape
that a far larger sum would, he set aPart next
year for that purpose. He was sorry also toe perceive that
there was only required a sum of 2,0001. :to liak.2hterest upon
moneys lodged in the regimmtal ravings, ` 'He fhr one,
as a Member of the British Leglelatureewh'uldefir seek to
advance the interests of the army intellectually.
Mr. GOULBURN eard;oalter the .observati.,ns which had
fallen from the Hone celmteMan in reeeard to the reduction
of the colonial • Corps, he felt he retest decidedly enter
his protest against any such prtipotshion: He would grant
that in particular colonies,.. where the expenses fell heavy
on the British subjec`,. a retioctir n might be effected
without injury ; but egairist • thr proposition of a general re-
duction of the colonial corps, he 'would certainly enter his pro-
test ; for that might be done in a time of peace with some
smcall saving of expense, but, in a time of war, difficulties would
arise in collecting sufficient force to meet the necessities of such
a time which would more than balance any trill rag saving they
could effect But another point which he wished to impress
upon the House wa-, that every portion of the troops, wherem r
thOy might he located, in Australia, Canada, or anywhere else,
.should bee freaked updn and treated as an integr .1 portion
of the imperial army. He said this, that the forces, wherever
thee/m.4om lie found, might be always maintained throughout
every company in an effective state.
The vote of 108,398 men for the land service for the ensuing
year was then agreed to.
The vote of 3,728,7371. for the payment of the land forces
of Gre t Bri ain and Ireland and the depend, racier, except
East India, Tor the ensuing year, was then agreed to.
Sir C. NAPIER said they had now pr tceeded with two
votes for the army. and aureed to them ; he hoped, according
to the promise of the Noble Lord, that the Government would
now proceed with the navy estimates. There were several
Hon. Members besides himself who bad waited the whole of
the night in the hope that the Noble Lord would fulfil his pro-
mise, and he trusted that even yet he would do so.
Mr. FOX MAULE said that would be mere waste of time.
Sir C. NAPIER did not see that it would be any waste of
time. Several Hon. Gentlemen had been waiting for the ex-
press purpose in the House the whole night, and he himself had
been waiting anxiously, and he hoped they would proceed im-
mediatelysotat to the navy estimates. He had to go to Portsmouth,
postponed impossible for him to be present if it were to be
indeed, it was not fair to pustpone it. He could not
accede to it.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he had hoped that the army
estimates would have come on at an earlier period of the even-
ing, but he was afraid that at that late hour nothing could be
done if they should turn now to the navy estimates.
Sir C. NAPIERA
promhd%would riot agree to this. He
wouA not accede.
had been made that the navy
,estimates would have been taken that unless that were
done, he must beg that Mr. Greene would
linigouht ;
Mr. WILLIAMS objeobjected to report progress.
the going that night
into the navy estimates He could not agreese
to it, and thought
it would be but wasting time.
Sir C. NAPIER said it was not a waste of
time
e that all.
Why, he supposed that eight or ten votes might bea
He had much to say upon them, and business would allownotrouh.
present if they were postponed to another night,
bin to be
Mr. FOX 3IAULE—The Gallant Admiral is bent on
delaying the public business.
31r. WILLIAMS objected to their going into Committee
on the navy estimates.
Sir C. NAPIER said he had reason for acting thus. Ho
bad the promise of the Noble Lord that the navy estimates
would come ou that night, and he could not be present on Fri-
day night.
LordJ. RUSSELL said he might meet both parties. He
promised that the ordnance estimates shouid come on en Friday
night after the army estimates, instead of the navy.
Sir C. NAPIER agreed.
The following votes were then agreed to:—
The vote of 177,7731. for the expenses tf the general sta
°Ewers Ist the ensuing year.