The Sun.
London, England, 1847-07-09 00:00:00

that great and most justly celebrated personage.—
(Cheers.) It was his wish, therefore, to ascertain
from some authentic source what the real opinion

of the Duke of Wellington was upon this sabieet,
because if his Grace were averse to the removal of the

statue from its present pedestal, he (Lord John Russell)
should not propose the vote in supply which he might
otherwise do, her Majesty having declared her desire, in

that case, to allow the statue to remain as at present.
Lord G. BENTINCK had nothing to say, but at once
to consent to the postponement of his motion.
Sir F. TRENCH hoped that on Monday he should be
allowed to read the letter addressed by the Sub-Com-
mittee to the Duke of Wellington, and his Grace's an-
swer thereto, which contained the very expression of
feeling which the Noble Lord at the head of the Go-
vernment was so anxious to ascertain.

CHARGE AGAINST MR. HUME.
Mr. SPOONER trusted that the House would grant
him its indulgence while he brought under its notice the
matter of a personal nature which he had given notice of
the day before. He would content himself by laying the
facts of the case before the House, and leave it to deal
with them. On Tuesday last, in the exercise of that
judgment which it was so desirous should be left unfet-
tered by any circumstances whatever, he, after attending
to the debate on the subject of the Raja of Sattarah, had
come to the conclusion that it was his duty to vote against
the motion of the Hon. Member for Montrose. Happen-
ing to sit next morning near the Hon. Member for
Rochester, the Hon. Member for Montrose came across
the House, and, in an excited manner—(Laughter)—
said to him, " You voted against me last night." He
(Mr. Spooner) replied that ho had done so, when the
Hon. Member rejoined, " I will bring the conduct of
your son before the House." The Hon. Member also
threatened to do the same with respect to a near relative

of the Hon. Member for Gateshead (Mr. Hutt) who had
also voted against him; and he added, " Jam prepared to
prove that only 13 independent Members voted against
me."—(Laughter.) That was the real statement of the
facts. He (Mr. Spooner) immediately said that if the
Hon. Member had any charge to prefer against his son,
he would, as a matter of courtesy, state to him what
were the particulars of his charges, so that he might
have an opportunity of replying to it. The Hon. Member
for Montrose's only reply was—" Look to the
Blue-book and see the certificate he gave—he
was a magistrate concerned in the matter." He (Mr.
Spooner) did not know at the time what was the proper
language for him to use—(Laughter)—but he consulted
several of his friends of more experience than himself, and
they had told him that this was a matter which he could
not let pass, and that he ought to state the thing to the
House, and let the House deal with it as it thought fit.
If this were not a breach of privilege, it at least assumed
the character of intimidation, and it was conduct cer-
tainly that ought not to be withheld from the
knowledge of the House. He would just call the
attention of the House to the concluding circum-
stance, that whatever might be the ground of the
charge which the Hon. Member for Montrose had to
bring against his son, that this was a singular time to
do it, considering that he had had the Blue-book before
him, in which the transaction with which his son
wt
haes Hconnected;Member had f 0
rb ejsein for
Montrose
stow
do i
d Searst,o t roeocoo
fir
od ed
confine
h. i Butoasel t
to the single charge, for he also brought a charge
against a relative of the Hon. Member for Gateshead.
These were the circumstances to which he had to call the
attention of the House, and he trusted that his expres-
sions in doing so had evinced no improper feeling. He
would now leave the matter altogether at the dis-
posal of the House. If it were necessary that he
should explain the reason why he had given this
vote he was prepared to do so, but as he could impart no
new information upon the subject he had preferred giv-
ing a silent vote upon the subject. He would here leave
the matter entirely in the hands of the House.
Mr. HUME said that in all his experience this was the
most extraordinary speech that had ever been made by
any Member in that House. While sitting at home, at five
o'clock, he had received a note from the Hon. Member for
Birmingham, requesting him to be in the House at four
o'clock. He (Mr. Hume) was entirely at a loss to un-
derstand what he wanted with him. He did not know
whether the Hon. alember thought that he had com-
mitted some violation of his Seduction Act—(Roars of
laughter)—or what it might have been that the
Honouraole Member intended to charge him with. But
he was now undeceived upon the point, and he would
leave it to the House whether any Hon. Member in it
had ever heard a charge like this brought forward. It
appeared to him that the Hon. Member ought to be
obliged to him instead of complaining of his conduct.—
, (Laughter.) What he had said to the Hon. Member for
Birmingham was, " I see you voted against me last
1 night ;" he said " I did." " Have you seen the result
of the numbers ?" " No." " Then I can tell
you, that out of the numbers who voted against
me twenty eight belonged to the late and present Go-
vernment and to the East India House, and only four-
teen independent Members really voted against the
motion. I therefore put the fourteen independent
Members against my twenty-three supporters, and I
consider that the division was in my favour."—(Laugher).
He referred to the Mr. Spooner mentioned in the blue
book, and the Hon. Member for Birmingham said " He
is my son." He (Mr. Hume) then said, "On Tuesday
next I will give the House an opportunity of reconsider-
ing this question, and I will then refer to this
division, and show that only fourteen independent
Members voted against me." That was all that had
taken place, and a more gratuitous interference on the
part of the Hon, Member for Birmingham, he had
never seen. It would be his duty on Tuesday next to
"show, that both the Hon. Member for Birmingham and
the I.l•Ja. M,rubcr for Gate:du:ad had been inflooneed
by external circumsiances ; their near relatives
being acting magistrates in the earlier history
of these circumstances, the one being the magis-
trate before whom the robber was brought, on whose
body was found the papers connected with the Goa con-
spiracy, and the other the magistrate who imprisoned
Govind Row, the principal Minister of the late Raja.
He did not mean to impugn their characters as magis-
trates, because he could show that they had acted under
instructions from head-quarters. The Hon. Member
had charged him with a breach of privilege ; he
thought he could better charge the Hon. Member
with a breach of confidence in thus bringing
before the House private conversation. He thought the
Hon. Member for Birmingham, had not, in this instance,
acted with his usual good sense and correct judgment.
Mr. HUTT said that the Hon. Member for Montrose
did not always exhibit a most perfect wisdom, nor
was his language and demeanor, on all occasions,
the • most delicate and proper. He (lit.
Hutt) cared not for any attempts that might
be made to asperse his relations by the
Hon. Member for Moutrose. He always received them
with cheerfulness, and in fact rather liked them.—
(Laughter.) The Ilon. Member then proceeded to
state, thot when Govind Row was placed in prison Mr.
Hutt proceeded immediately to release him, had him
placed in one of the principal houses in the town, and
bad his comforts caret ully attended to. The minister of
the late Raja wished to make a private communication to
him, but he was informed before doing so that such commu-
nication would be forwarded to the Government of Bombay
It appeared that Govind Row made a full confession of
the circumstances of the conspiracy, but that he after-
wards retracted it, and stated as his reason for doing so
that it had been extorted from him while he was con-
fined in a dungeon. The lion. Member for Montrose
seemed to think that Mr. Hutt had been instrumental
in placing this person in a dungeon, for the express
purpose of extorting that confesssion from him.
—([Lear, hear.) But this was utterly at variance
with the truth.—(Herr, hear.) Ile sincerely trusted
that the Hun. Gentleman would abstain for the future
in making charges which were devoid of truth.
Mr. BANKES entirely repudiated the notion that
there was any privacy in the conversation which the
lion. Member for Montrose had with the Hon. Member
for Birmingham. He spoke so loud that any one sitting
near the Hon. Member for Birmingham could not fail to
hear the purport of his observations ; in fact it seemed
as it the Hon. Member for Montrose had come over
to the Hon. Member for Birmingham for the express
purpose of making the statement to him. When he
made use of the observations referred to, he (Mr. Bankes)
told him that he must be joking ; but he (Mr. Hume)
replied that it was no joke, and that he should bring it
before the House. He (Mr. Bankes), however, was no
party to the course which the Hon. Gentleman had
adored. He considered that the Hon. Member for Bir-
mingham's character required no vindication—(Hear,
hear)—he certainly did not deserve to be excluded
from those who had given, according to the Hon. Mem-
ber for Montrose, independent votes.
Sir DE LACY EVANS here rose to inquire whe-
ther the twenty pensioners whose pensions had been
commuted in 1833, and who had performed,certain ser-
vices in.Canads, would be restored to the condition of
their comrades in Canada, who had received pensions,
whilst those who had been left in this country received
none. The. consequence was, that upwards of one-half
of them were in the greatest misery. He wished, at the
same time, to recommend that Dr. Arnold's principle of
ventilation should be applied to barracks, which could be
done very economically.
Mr. B. OSBORNE considered that the lion. and
Gallant Member ought not to have withdrawn the atten-
tion of the House from the subject which was before it.
He hoped the House would call upon the Hon. Member
fur Birmingham and the Hon. Member for Montrose to
give them assurance that they would not commit a breach
of the peace.—(Roars of laughter, which continued for
some minutes.)
Sir R. INGLIS said, if the Hon. Member for Mon-
trose had considered Mr. Hutt and Mr. Spooner guilty
of the conduct imputed to them, he ought to have
included them in the list of the persons whom he ac-
cused; he certainly ought not to have impugned the
motives of those who had voted on the division.
Lord JOAN RUSSELL—I am much of the same
opinion as the lion: Baronet who has just resumed his
seat. I think, to speak to gentlemen after they have
voted, and to impute to them that they have given
their votes, not in accordance with their own opinion,
bat la consequence of the opinions of their connexions, is
0 fw
thisere fdoneHouse
sewtihth
respect to the generality graltihtyingof athnedvoiftesit
have been long acquainted
a most unbecomenitet
d by the Hon. Member, greatest inconvenience could not fail to be the result ;
but I do not think, for we
with the language use that he
really meant to impuchart
epossesses any improper motives. The
I think he made the
statement without anybody, either within or without
never made himself a very strict master of the English
language.—(Roars of laughter.)
the House and the Hon. thinking about it.—(Continued laughter.)
I think the, Hon. Member for Birmingham
Member for Gateshead (Mr. Hutt) must be both satis-
fied that their relations are not guilty of the charges
br
either within or without this House who will pay the
ought against them, and that there is not a person
slightest attention to the subject.—(Laughter and hear.)
r, Mr.-AGLIONBY said the Noble Lord had called the
Pacia. Member for tioutrozo a .chartered litertixa;—