The Sun.
London, England, 1847-06-02 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT
HOUSE OF LORDS, June 1.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool-
sack shortly after Five o'clock.
The Bishop of GLOUCESTER presented several pe-
titions from the clergy tint laity of the city of Gloucester,
and other parts, praying the House to adopt some mea-
sure to put a stop to Sunday travelling upon railways.
MESSAGE FROM 'THE COMMONS.
Messengers from the Commons brought up a large
number of piiblic and private Bills.
POOR REMOVAL (IRELAND).
This Bill, after a short conversation, in which Lord
Denman, Lord Brougham, and Earl Grey took part, was
' read a second time.
TOWNS IMPROVEMENT BILL.
On the motion of Lord CAMPBELL, this Bill was
read a second time.
NAVY PRISONS BILL.
On the motion of the Earl of AUCKLAND, the
House went into Committee on this Bill.
The Earl of HARDWICKE said, that though not an
opponent of the Bill, he was only a weak supporter, and
he was, therefore, exceedingly desirous of modifying its
principle, for he believed that the punishment against
which it was directed was not unpopular in the
profession. The men in the navy, 'a hen they
committed a fault, expected corporal punishment—they
looked for it, as they said, as their due, and did not
complain when it was inflicted. But this Bill im-
posed a punishment which was, of all things,
most detested by them, for they would
barter their liberty for no advantage whatever.
He said he did give the Bill his support, although the
measure was of very doubtful character ; for the mo-
ment the vessel went out to sea the lash was resumed,
and this Bill served rather to satisfy the public mind
under the eye of the press. He meant to propose an
amendment on the first clause to the effect of retaining
the entire control in the sole hand of the captain. He
moved that these words should be struck out.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE, in a voice almost
as we understood, that he ,would
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY reported progress, and
ent.
citnhoaenuisriddLi
eborl ert,dhisenhtaiipmms
resumed.aenteddm,
CONFERENCE.
Mr. GREENE and a deputation from the Commons
appeared at their Lordships' bar, on behalf of the Com-
mons, and asked for a conference on the Poor Relief
(Ireland) and the Landed Property (Ireland) Bills.
The conference was agreed to, and appointed to take
place immediately in the Royal Gallery.
After a short absence, the Members of their Lord-
ships' House appointed to confer with the Commons
returned, and
Lord CLARENDON read the reasons why the House
of Commons disagreed with certain amendments made
by their Lordships in the Irish Poor Relief and the
Landed Property (Ireland) Bills.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that he would
take those amendments into consideration, and bring
them forward on Thursday next.
:NAVY PRISONS BILL.
The House then resumed on this Bill, and
The Earl of AUCKLAND said that he believed every
care had been taken to preserve the characters of the
officers, and he was quite assured that the punishment
by flogging was not half so much as it was ten years ago,
and the modification was merely intended to save them
from an unpleasant difficulty.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGFI said that he was
quite at a loss to understand what her Majesty's Govern-
ment meant by this Bill, for the fact was that a discretion
was left with the officer in command to inflict the
punishment of flogging if he thought necessary, but it
restricted him from doing otherwise than sending the
offender to prison, unless he chose to consult the admiral
when he was in port, for he could not inflict the punish-
ment of flogging without the admiral's consent. But if
at sea he might elect to inflict which punishment he
chose, and, in fact, the whole of the law ought to have
been put into the Bill.
The Earl of AUCKLAND said that he thought that
the Noble Earl opposite had quite misunderstood the
principle of the Bill, fur it was intended to restrain cor-
poral punishments, and if possible prevent them.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said that it was
clear that the election of which punishment he chose
was in the hands of the officer ; and rightly so, for it
might be necessary to inflict punishment, and sometimes
severe punishment too, for the sake of preserving dis-
cipline. A ship at sea without discipline was as much
as lost, and it would be unjust to make an officer re-
sponsible for the safety of his vessel, and yet deprive
him of the necessary authority over his men.
Earl GREY said the object of the Bill was clear ; it
gave the election of two modes of punishment to the
captain when at sea, but in harbour the election lay with
the Admiralty.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH still maintained
that the Act was imperfect in the respect he bad pointed
out to their Lordships.
After some further conversation, the amendment,
with a slight alteration suggested by Lord Brougham,
was agreed to.
The Bill then passed through Committee.
The House resumed.
THE FACTORIES REGULATION BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
RAILWAY BILLS,
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE gave notice that on
Thursday next he would move for the appointment of a
Select Committee to consider whether it was expedient
that any measure should be passed to suspend all or any
of the Railway Bills now before Parliament, and to
enable patties to proceed with them in another
session ; aiso to consider whether any alteration should
be made in the standing orders of the House in relation
to such Ilailw•ty Bills.
Lord BROUGHAM was glad that the Noble Mar-
quis had given notice of that motion.
SUPERVISION OF POOR-LAWS IN IRELAND.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE gave notice that on
Thursday next he would move the second reading of the
Supervision of the Poor-law in Ireland Bill.
BANKRUPTCY AND INSOLVENCY.
The LORI) CHANCELLOR moved the second read-
ing of the Bankruptcy Law Amendment, and Debtor
and Creditor Bills, with the intention of referring them
to a Select Committee, to investigate the whole question
of bankruptcy.
The Bills were read a second time, and the Select
Committee nominated.
NAVAL SERVICE OF BOYS BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
The House then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, June 1.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock.
THIRD READINGS.

The following Bills were read a third time and passed:
Aberdeen Harbour.
Caledonian Railway (Branches to Canonbie, &c.)
Dublin and Belfast Junction and Navan Branch Railway.
Dublin and Drogheda Railway (Purchase of Navan
Branch, &c.)
Dundalk and Enniskillen Railway.
Eastern Counties Railway Extension (Cambridge to
Bedford, &c.)
Eastern Counties Railway (Maldon, Witham, and Brain-
tree Railway Purchase).
East Lincolnshire Railway (Deviation at Boston and
Branch to Great Grimsby and Sheffield Junction
Railway at Grimsby).
East Lincolnshire Rail way (Louth Navigation Purchase).
Glasgow and Shotts Road.
Glasgow, Barrhead, and Neilston Direct Railway.
Glasgow, Kilmarnock, and Ardrossan Railway (Amend-
ment, Deviations, and Branches).
Glasgow. Paisley, and Greenock Railway (Branches at
Port Glasgow).
Glasgow, Paisley, and Greenock Railway (Amendment
and Branches to the Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock,
and Ayr, the Glasgow, Barrhead, and Neilston, and
the Glasgow, Strathaven, and Lesmabagow Railways,
and to Haugh Pits).
Great Southern and Western Railway Extension (Por-
tarlington to Tullamore).
Lowestoft Railway and Harbour (Alteration near Reed-
ham).
National Mercantile Life Assurance Society.
Norfolk Railway (Branch from Wvmondham to the
Norwich Extension of the Ipswich and Bury St. Ed-
mund's Railway, and the proposed Thetford and Reed-
ham Railway near Dit,s).
Norfolk Railway (Yarmouth Extension, &c.)
Paisley, Barrhead, and Hurlet Railway,
Saffron Walden Rates.
'oath Staffordshire Railway (Cannock, Wyrley, and
Norton Branches, &c.)
Wakefield Market.

LORDS' AMENDMENTS.
The Lords' amendments on the following Bills were
considered and agreed to :
Caledonian Railway (Branches to Wilsontown, to
Fauldhouse, and to Biggar and Broughton).
Caledonian. Railway (Branches from the Clydesdale
Junction Railway to the Douglas and Lesmahagow
Mineral Fields, and to Strathavon).
Caledonian Railway (Extension of Motherwell Branch
of Clydesdale Junction Railway to Anchinheath
Mineral Field, with Branches to the Wishaw and
Coltness Railway, Canderside, and Hamilton).
Claridge's Patent Asphalte Company.
Scottish Equitable Life Assurance Society.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORTS.
The reports of the following Bills were considered and
agreed to :
Birmingham, Wolverhampton, and Stour Valley Railway
(No. I.—Smethwick Deviation).
Birmingham, Wolverhampton, and Stour Valley Railway
(No. 2) Branches.
Bristol and South Wales Junction Railway and Aust
Ferry.
Coventry, Nuneaton Birmingham, and Leicester Railway.
Derbyshire, Staffordshire, and Worcestershire Junction
l
Railway.
Dundee and Newtyle Railway.
Dundee and Perth Railway (Alteration and Extension,
and Inchture, Poie
Eastern Counties Railway (Cambridge, Royston, and
East Lothian Centragl
Ware line, &c.).
Edinburgh and
Eastern Counties Railway (Enlargement of London and
auvai,lwaanyd.lnchmichael Branches).
Stratford Stations and Amendment of Acts).
Bathgate Railway (Deviation and
Amendment).
Liverpool Gas.
London and North.Virestern Railway (Atherstone and
Whiteacre Branch).
London and North-Western Railway (Coventry and
Nuneaton Branches).
London and North-Western
Railway (Newport Pagnell,
Olney, and Wellinzborough Branch).
London and North. Western Railway (purchase of the
Earl of El leqinere's interest in the Manchester South
Junction and Altrincham Railway). - -
Loudon and North-Western Railway (Portobello and
Wolverhampton Branch, &c.)
Lynn and Ely Railway (Deviation and Lynn Docks).

Manchester and Birmingham and North Staffordshir
Junction Railway.
Northampton and Banbury Railway.
Parkgate and Chester and Birkenhead Junction Railway.
Shropshire Union Railway and Canal (Lease to the
London and North Webtern Railway Company).
,Weymouth and Me'combo Regis Harbour and Bridge
Trusts.
COVENTRY, BANBURY, AND OXFORD JUITC-

TION RAILW
On the motion for the further consideration of the
report on this Bill,

Mr.
STRUTT moved, pursuant to notice, that the
Bill be re-committed, for the purpose of enabling the
Committee to report their reasons for recommending, in
their twelfth resolution, that such line should be formed
on any other than the four feet eight and a half inch
gauge

After some discussion the motion was agreed to.
CHESTER AND HOLYHEAD (No. 2) RAILWAY.
Lord RENDLESHAM moved that it be an instruction
to the Committee on the Chester and Holyhead Railway
(No. 2) Bill, that they have leave to divide the said Bill
into two Bills, if they think fit, and to proceed with the
consideration of such portion of the said Bill, when di-
vided, as relates to the proposed extensions and works at
Chester and Holyhead respectively, in the absence of
any report of the Commission appointed to examine into
the merits of the proposed harbour at Holyhead, not-
withstanding the order of the House on the 7th day of
May last.—Agreed to.
COMMITTEE ON STANDING ORDERS.
Sir WM. HEATHCOTE moved as a Select Com-
mittee for the revision of the standing orders:—Sir Wm.
Heathcote, Mr. Ord, Lord Dalmeny, Sir Robert Fer-
guson, Mr. Wilson Patten, Sir John Yarde Buller, Mr.
Aglionby, Captain Jones, Mr. Home Drummond, Mr.
Wrightson, Mr. Sotheron, Mr. Estcourt, Mr. Strutt, Mr.
Greene, and Mr. Loch.—Agreed to.
LONG'S ESTATE BILL.
Mr. GREENE moved that the Examiner of petitions
for private Bills have leave to proceed on Long's Estate
Bill on Thursday next.—Agreed to.
LIVERPOOL, MANCHESTER, AND NEW-
CASTLE-UPON-TYNE RAILWAY.
Mr. BOYD moved, that in the case of the two peti-
tions for additional provision in the Liverpool, Man-
chester, and Newcastle-upon-Tyne Junction Railway
Act Amendment Bill, the examiner of petitions for
private Bills have leave to sit and proceed to-morrow.—
Agreed to.

TOWNSHEND PEERAGE.
Mr. T. CLARKE appeared at the bar of the House, as
solicitor of the Marquis of Townshend, and stated, in
answer to questions put to him by Mr. Greene, that he
was authorised to act as solicitor for the Marquis of
Townshend in all matters referring to the Townshend
Peerage Bill.
Mr. STUART then moved that the petition relative
to the Townshend Peerage Bill (presented 31st May)
be now taken into consideration.
The petition was considered accordingly, and ordered
to be laid upon the table of the House.
Mr. STUART then moved that notice of the first
meeting of the Committee to Mr. Thomas Clarke, the
solicitor of the Marquis Townshend (who is in Italy),
may be deemed good service on the Marquis Townshend.
—Motion agreed to.
GLASGOW, NULSTON, AND BARHEAD •
RAILWAY.
On the motion that this Bill be read a third time,
Mr. HUME said the Glasgow, Paisley and Ayr, and the
Glasgow and Kilmarnock, were the two Bills, and he
merely rose to ask the House whether, when they had
proof before them that a conspiracy had existed for
twenty-one years, by which the public had been injured,
they would pass the Bill ?
Lord PALMERSTON said that the Hon. Member
was mistaken in the supposition that the three Bills were
connected. The Bill now before the House had nothing
to do with the monopoly of which he complained.
Mr. HASTIE also gave a similar assurance.
Mr. HUME would then postpone his observations till
Friday next.
The Glasgow, Neilston, and Barrhead Bill was then
read a third time and passed.
WASTE LANDS OF IRELAND.
Mr. P. SCROPE postponed till the 15th of June his
resolution that the waste lands of Ireland offer an avail-
able resource for the immediate employment and future
maintenance of a part of her population, now apparently
redundant; and that it is expedient to apply them to
this great national object, making equitable compensa-
tion to their present proprietors.
LEGACY DUTY.
Dr. BOWRING postponed till the 22d of June his
motion for a Select Committee, to inquire whether
sundry amounts have not been and are illegally detained
by the Treasury, for legacy duty on the property of
testators not domiciled in the United Kingdom.
PETITION OF JOHN DAWSON.

Mr. FERRAND moved that the petition of John
Dawson, complaining of the imprisonment of his daugh-
ter, Mary Dawson, for quitting her work, be printed
with the votes.—Agreed to.
STATIONERY EXPENSES.
Mr. HUME moved for a return of the number and
expense of the various papers that were ordered to be
printed by Parliament during the last session.
CHINA.
Dr. BOWRING inquired of the Secretary to the
Colonies, whether an ordinance issued by the Governor
of Hong-Kong, dated the 11th day of March last, and
which appropriates 4,6001. of the revenue of that colony
to the building of an Anglican church, has received the
sanction of her Majesty's Government ; whether an or-
dinance of the same date, which repeals the ordinance of
1844, by which certain rights of appeal were provided in the
Supreme Court of Judicature against consular decisions,
has been approved by the Home Colonial authorities?
Mr. HAWES said that, with regard to the first ques-
tion, Sir Henry Pottinger, in the year 1843, when Lord
Stanley was Secretary for the Colonies, brought under the
consideration of the Government the necessity ofbuilding
a church at Hong-Kong, and an agn ernent was
entered into that if they subscribed one-third of
the amount, the other would be supplied by the
Government. That was done, and the money
was accordingly advanced. With regard to the
other part of the question, he was not in a position to
answer it, as he had not the proper documents in his
possession; he would, however, make inquiries and he
would be happy to give all the informatio❑ required.
THE LORDS' AMENDMENTS.
Mr. GREENE brought up the report of the Select
Committee appointed to draw up reasons for the House
disagreeing with the Lords' amendments.
TAXING-MASTERS IN IRELAND.
Mr. GOULBURN wished to know from the Right
Hon. Gentleman the Solicitor-General whether it was his

intention to bring in a Bill for correcting what was
mani-
festly an error with respect to the office of taxing-master
to the Queen's Bench in Ireland. It was the duty of
the taxing-master to investigate all questions of costs
and certain matters with respect to railway companies ;
thus a great increase of labour had been thrown upon
the one taxing-master. There were five taxing masters
in the Queen's Bench of this country, and the work
thrown upon one master was considerable.
Mr. MONAHAN (the Solicitor-General for Ireland)
said the matter to which the Hon. Gentleman bad re-
ferred had only been brought under his attention within
the last few days. It appeared that the officer
referred to was the proper person to tax the costs,
but it also appeared that he had objected,
because there was no remuneration attached
to the office. It was right that an adequate
remuneration should be attached to the office. He did
not think a Bill could be brought forward on the subject
during the present session.
IRISH RAILWAYS.

Sir R. PEEL said that the Noble Lord in his speech
the other evening did not make any mention of the Irish
Railways Bill. He had had a communication addressed
to him by several parties who were most anxious to
know the intention of the Government on the subject.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that a report had been
presented upon the subject, and as soon as it was printed
it would be laid before the House. He was not prepared
to make any further vote for these railways this session.
—(Both the question of the Right Hon. Baronet, and
the answer of the Noble Lord were very indistinctly
heard in the gallery).

THE CASE OF SIR EARDLEY WILMOT.
Mr. SPOONER wished to know whether his
Noble Friend would permit his motion relative
to the case of Sir EtrAley Wilmot to be brought for-
ward at once. He could assure his Noble Friend that
nothing should fall from him at all likely to promote any
disagreeable discussion. He wished merely to state, that
the charges made against him had been most fully refuted.
Under these circumstances he hoped that the course
which it was intended to pursue would not be perse-
vered in.

Lord LINCOLN said, though unwilling to accede to
the request of the Hon. Gentleman on public grounds,
when the private feelings of the gentleman's relatives
were so intimately concerned, he would comply with
the request of the Hon. Gentleman, if the other Mem-
bers of the House were willing to do so.
Mr. HUME said he was not at all willing to accede to
the request of the Hon. Gentleman; and the cause was
that no speech could be made without a reply. He
hoped the Noble Lord would proceed in the usual way.
Mr. BOUVERIE said that acting upon personal feel-
ing he would be inclined to agree with the lion. Gentle-
man (Mr. Spooner), and hoped that the lion. Member
for Montrose would desist.
Mr. HUME said that he would not, unless it was un-
derstood that there would be no reply to the speech
that might be made.
Mr. V. SMITH said it was impossible that the Noble
Lord could bring his motion forward without something
being said either for or against the late Secretary for
the Colonies. It would be most unwise, therefore, to
bring the subject before the House under such circum-
stances.

Mr. SPOONER said he had received a letter from the
late Secretary of State for the Colonies with regard to
the character of Sir Eardley Wilmot which was per-
fectly satisfactory.
Lord LINCOLN wished to know what course would
be taken with reference to the other notices on the
paper, if his lion. Friend took precedence himself.
The SPEAKER was understood to say, that if the
Hon. Member for Birmingham should have the prece-
dence after the Hon. Gentleman concluded his motion.
ho should call upon the Noble Loi d to bring forward his.
Mr. SPOONER was about to proceed, when
Mr. HUME rose to protest against his doing so. If
he wanted any reason why this discussion should be
postponed, it would be found in what had occurred to-
day.

Sir JAMES GRAHAM perceived great difficulty in
departing from the established rule. It appeared to
him that on Thursday next would be the opportunity,
when the question of transportation would be brought
before the House by the Right Hon. Gentleman, for
making the explanation of the Hon. Gentleman.
Sir G. GREY thought that the suggestion of the
Right Hon. Gentleman was one which the Government
could not readily coincide in. It was expedient that the

business of the country should be proceeded with, and
the introduction of questions which did not bear a very
close affinity to the order of the day was calculated only
,o delay and emberr aa the arise, dings of the House.
He thought that thee questh ns should be kept as much
distinct as pos,ible.
LORDS' AMENDMENTS ON THE LANDED
PROPERTY ( ELA ND) BILL, AND THE
POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL.
Mr. GREENE appeared at the bar, and announced
that the House of Lords had agreed to a conference
with the Commons, which they had appointed to take
place in the Royal Gallery.
Lord John Russell, the Solicitor-General for Ireland,
with other Members of the Government, and accom-
panied by several Hon. Members, left the House to
attend the conference.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL shortly after eppeared at
the bar, and reported that the deputation ap-
pointed by the House, had conferred with
a deputation of the House of Lords with respect to the
two Bills—the Poor Relief Ireland Bill, and the Landed
Property Ireland Bill, and had stated their reason for
disagreeing with the Lords' amendments, and had left
the Bills and their reasons for disagreeing with their
Lordships.
Mr. HUME said he should persist in the course be
had stated to the House.
Lord J. RUSSELL rose to order. He very much
regretted that his Hon. Friend had not been allowed to
go on ; but at the same time he could not help
saying that if the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hume) per-
sisted in maintaining his privilege that he would adopt
a very inconvenient course, because it would have the
effect of overruling the decision of the majority of that
House.
Mr. HUME was sorry to persist, but he felt it his duty
to do so.
The subject then dropped.
COLONISATION (IRELAND).
The Earl of LINCOLN then rose to move that an
humble address be presented to her Majesty, praying
that she will take into her most gracious consideration
the means by which colonisation may be made subsidiary
to other measures for the improvement of the social con-
dition of Ireland ; and by which, consistently with full
regard to the interests of the colonists themselves, the
comfort and prosperity of those who emigrate may be
effectually promoted. He said, when he reflected upon
the importance of the subject which he had undertaken
to bring forward, when he considered the extent of that
subject, whether in
_reference to the magnitude of the
interests involved, or the difficulties of its details—and
he did not fee.' this less when he bore in mind the many
occasions on which this subject had been brought before
the House, and the manner in which it had been brought
forward by some who were now no longer Members of
that House, and also by some now present—he felt that
he should stand much in nesd of the indulgence of the
House, but he trusted that no deficiency on his part
would be allowed to interfere with the object of the mo-
tion, and that it might obtain the deliberate attention of
the House and the Government. He trusted, however,
that he should not be obliged to trespass at any length
upon their indulgence ; but the question was one of such
paramount importance that he should be compelled to
relate a few simple facts, and a few plain principles, in
order to induce the House and the Government
to adopt the motion. And before he entered
upon the subject, he wished to assure Hon. Gentlemen
on both sides of the House, that he had not brought for-
ward the motion with any intention of bringing it for-
ward to bear upon party feeling or party principles.—
(Cheers.) He should endeavour to advocate the motion
so as to place no obstacle whatever in the way of either
side of the House giving it its support. He had
worded it in a way to prevent all misunderstanding. It
was not his intention to bring forward any new plan of
colonisation for the relief of Ireland, nor was it his in-
tention to adhere strictly to any of the plans submitted
to the House and the public during the last twenty five
years. His simple object was to obtain an inquiry by
means of which a commission of able and competent men,
such as the Government felt justified in employing. un-
paid, would be appointed. The great object which he
desired to attain, was to ascertain how far this system of
colonisation was applicable in the present state of Ireland,
so as to benefit those who remained in the country. He
did not mean by this motion to encourage that system
which had been characterised as " shovelling out
paupers," for, on the contrary, he believed that sooner
than adopt such a system, it would be better to take the
dreadful alternative, if, indeed, it were the only one, of
leaving them in their present condition to starve and perish.
The remedy was one which would have the same effect
as bleeding in the human frame, and was like that
remedy, if properly applied, likely to be beneficial in.its
results. He would wish to consider what were the great
objects of the poor-law, and whether he considered it
were likely to effect those objects necessary for the entire
well-being of the country, and if not, what measures
could be adopted for that end ? He did not consider the
poor-law as calculated to reliev all the permanent des-
titution of the country ; but as the Noble Lord had said,
as a stimulous to the employment of labour, and as a
source of giving an increased security to life and pro-
perty. Without that security, capital and enterprise
could never flow into that country, which would still
continue in the evil and vicious state of pauperism and
crime. He thought that the poor-law could not aceom-
plish all these objects. The House would excuse him if
he read one or two statements from that able document
the report of the Commissioners appointed in 1836 to
enquire into the condition of the poorer classes of
Ireland. Tho report stated that there was
not that division of labour in Ireland
which was to be found in Great Britain.
The supply of the agricultural labour was considerably
greater than the demand for it. In Great Britain the
agricultural labourers did not form more than a fonrth,
while in Ireland they constituted a fourth of the whole
population. The consequence was, that in Ireland there
were 2,800,000 persons out of work in the course of the
year. So much for the statement of the Commissioners.
Now, the net annual value of property rated to the poor
in Ireland was 13,40-1,403/.; but in addition to this there
was the eess-rates, amounting to 1,158,2531., making the
total charge on property for the support of the poor
6,783,327/. It had been stated that the tax would not
exceed 2,000,0001., but he did not think that this state-
ment was justified by fact, because the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman opposite had not taken into account the
altered circumstances of the country. He should
consider that the potato was not now to be
reckoned upon in their calculations upon this matter. He
thought that no Hon. Gentleman could deny, that the
amount of employment in Ireland must be diminished
by the present circumstances of the country. It seemed
to him that they would proceed from bad to worse in
Ireland unless some measure additional were introduced
to the aid of the Poor-law. He thought that unless some
adjuncts were introduced to assist the present law that
it could not be expected to work efficiently. He thought
no Hon. Gentleman would deny this if he investig ited
the system of rating that was proposed to be adopted.
It would tend to great evil if left to act by itself. He
thought that the Poor-law was well calculated to remove
many of the evils which afflicted Ireland, but he .knew
that unaided it would have a very partial effect, and in
that event it would leave the country in the same state
rme
s
faosr at
ht pe
rreeesleanmt.a t
oToh
ofe Government
s, budtho
psaaslesedofmeenascuu
bered estates, and also had made many advances; all of
these were intended to assist the operation of the Poor-
law and would most likely do so to some extent. The
Bill for the sale of encumbered estates would, he
thought, have the effect of so far reducing the
price of land as to cause many and serious
conveniences to the landlords. With regard to the
money advances, he thought that a good deal of the
money would go to those proprietors who did not very
much require it, and that those preprie!oes in the west
and the north would despair of obtaining higher rent
for these improvements, and would not, therefore, avail
themselves of the loan. With regard to the grant for
piers and harbours, and other Chines, he had calculated
that even if' 1,000,000/. of the 1,500,000/. were spent in
the first year, at the rate of 181. per year, to each in-
dividual, it would only afford employment to 100,000
persons, who, with their families, representing
500,000 persons, would alone be saved from starvation
and destitution. Unless these data could be contro-
dieted, he was right in assuming that the poor-law
would be inadequate to relieve the whole of the desti-
tution now in Ireland. He then came to the considera-
tion of how far the system of colonisation would tend to
aid and carry out its operations. He apprehended that
the proper cultivation of land in Ireland could not take
place as long as the present practice of minute sub-
divisions of land existed. The existence of these sub-
divisions in enormous quantities aas proved by the re-
turn of the census of the year 1841. The Noble
Lord then referred to documents proving, the
existence of a great number of small holdings
of the rent of from 11. to 41. in the barony of Farney.
He would ask the House, how was it possible that the
improvement of the cultivation of the soil could be
brought about under such a system as that ? lle had
an opportunity
'ty last autumn of visiting in Ireland the
estate of the Secretary for Foreign Affairs. He found
that great attention had been bestowed upon it, and yet
still he found, from inquiries upon that estate and in the
parish, that the estate contained 16,410 acres, the popu-
lation was 8,750, and the annual value 5,2381., and yet
with that population the land under corn cultivation last
year only amounted to 432 acres. He would ask whether
any influx of capital could remedy the state of things
existing in Ireland, without some alteration in such a
system ? It must, however, be borne in mind, that the
improved husbandry of a country necessarily decreased
the quantity of labour employed, for the proportion of
agricultural labourers employed in Ireland was as 5 to 2
employed in England. That instance would be suffi-
cient to show that this assumption was correct. That
would be remedied by emigration, and he was the other
day told by a landlord, that having offered to remove
1,000 persons from his estate to the colonies, 2,000 more
applied to be removed also. The opinion of Sir R.
Keane had been quoted to show that Ireland was
capable of containing a population of more than double
that which now existed, he was not disposed to deny-
that it must necessarily be done by an insP rove-
merit in the social condition of Ireland, and the opening
of mines and manufactures. In order to effect that,
temporary reduction of the population was ni ces.sa a
Theyand
beanid thus
ttold
cdrtehast
that
the
wouldheere
su
result
veryof
esool
oo nn
sbaet
iofinl 1 ewdouoril3sd':
be to remove the bone and sinew—the vigour and
strength of the land, away fro vast Such, however,
would not be the case, for there ,as te'y
could beof broughtlB3o s
ta t abouted tthat
t underthe th knew, a population quite sufficient to bear the largests reduction
Committeeth
stem. The
thoughts3' that emi-
gration was peculiarly adapted to they
remove many of the
pressing evils which then existed in Ireland. Again, he
would only quote one more sentence, which should be
from Lord De Rous's commission. (The Noble Lord ,
went on to read a passage from the
report,
recommend-
ing
the adoption of some system of emigration for • the
relief of Ireland.) In the second report of the Com-
mittee, a •
appointed a short time ago, to consider the
state of Ireland, he found a Similar recommeLdatioc

as well as an appeal to the landlords of Ireland to give
encouragement and assistance to those who are ADZiOUS
to emigrate. He was afraid he had wearied the Moose
with going so much into details. but he thought he had
said sufficient to make out a case for enquiry. Enquiry
was all he asked for. He had no new plan or project
of colonisation to propo-e: but he mia,ht at the sauna
time be permitted to recapitulate the various plans of
colonisation which had been recently brought before the
House. A short while ago the lion. Member for Gates-
head advocated the adoption of home colonisation, and in
support of his plan pointed to the flourishing condition of
South Australia. And well the Hon. Gentleman might
refer to that colony, for only a little while ago it was
barren, unpopulated tract of land, while now it was
well cultivated and inhabited by an industrious body ot.
colonists. At the present titre, however, upwards 4
1100 per month were emigrating to that colony,
the rates of passage were very heavy, and he therefore
did not think the Australian colonies could be app lie 5,0
the purpose he had in view. The same observation would__
apply to New Zealand, but he was told that there 11:
a colony peculiarly adapted to the purpose. He
all I-
to South Africa, where dime were upwards of six in,so
lions of fertile, though unoccupied land. And was bee
told. that the colony abounded in iron,° stone, and °turth
minerals. On the other hand, there were their No
er,
American colonies open to them. Canada, howevits
atll riled them a proof of the utility of colonisationo_
population had latterly increas, d in an exceedingly lotirg
ratio, while there had been equal increase in the um lay
of its exports. In 1835, only twelve years age, aloe
quantity of flour exported was only 35,000 barrels,ref
to
in 1846 it amounted to 800,000 barrels. Besides thot,oo
.
imports amounted annually to upwards of nine nitilrous_
Now, with regard to the different plans of coloniser,
which had been propounded, there was first the pla
017.
Mr. Gibbon Wakefield, which might be called
supporting system of emigration ; but he did not
land was cheap, while there were ample opportu...r:
this system was applicable to Canada, because thereatnhs.i,nli_ke.
and temptations for removal to the united States. 1_1:
a motEfication of Alr. G. Wake fiell's
there was the plan of Colonel Torreon, but that was, too
too,
pia. There w
Gaosti I Ors
the plan proposed by Mr. Sullivan and Mr. ,ara
for the e
rulCu,
iirQvn.ies'Tahllecifewshvaiesh,
and the one proposed by the Noble Lord the Secrehaecat
would form
plan recently
ipit nnhrggeo pet itt:ll ulepeni :rtuaeemigrantiexpiration
ihnne oahf
a had laid
oldpn tpamphletehdreoi
onbld.ayn.n Mdo
fprfpe.orrrßho rpaaoopd.stii:
proposing
t,
tuoopfti;:',ifooadiga
at
and allowinghim to become the possessor of thef—:- late
e
ns
no ne'vdo 0
he might be allowed to direct the attention of the *L-obs-
- one which had not yet been brought before thereo„
bortinhearn an3ple Su
lie. It must be within the knowledge of the 13,oinioniao,
tlemau, the Under Secretary of State for the ttreof
and he had no doubt, notwithstanding the Press:f the
other affairs upon the time and memory - that
Noble Lord at the head of Government,
_be,
a railroad had been projected from Canada to Qiricisio
passing through the provinces of Nova Scotia an clue of
Brunswick. He looked mum this undertaking
as
great national importance, both in a political sod
mercial point of view. It could be constructed at !nd
tt
derate expense, land being cheap in the colonY, 3
would effect the object Mr. Pitt always contemP to
ia!de of
all the North American colonies belonging
d, t o
this country. The construction of this railroads of
would afford facilities for carrying out
any
emigration, because it would afford employaren
tPro-r the
coltief*
emigrants immediately on their reaching
He looked upon this undertaking, therefore, the
being of
this cOantrl•
the utmost importance to the colonies and to --- h wbons
He knew there were many Hon. Members with
ow
he might differ upon this point. He felt that the gr
A the
eat possible good would result to the commerce e,n • 0.
colonies of this country by a system of colords.ell,,°o
These benefits, could not, however, be obtained salre;.,
a large outlay of capital. He did not propose asetiY_'
the
vernment grants or loans for this purpose ;. _ with
amount required would be but small in comp
of
the
the sum annually required to support the poor
two countries. The amount of expense had been digs,;o
rently stated by various persons at sums ranging that
41. to 25/. ; but he might, perhaps, be told,e
Loch
if any sum should be spent, it would
s be
col°'
better to spend that money in Ireland than in
i.otighg
vies. He did not agree with that opinion, be wool to
a system of colonisation would tend to improve le of
elevate the moral and social condition of the Pe'Yonie.
Ireland. He had seen it stated, that any extends iia, of
nisation was impossible, because an ad-equate JOT? he
ect'ts who
food could not be found in Canada. The obj iu"
did not think would bare any weight with persontnuagi
were aware that the surplus corn of Can'tmight be
amounted to upwards of 2,000,000 barrels.
said too, that sufficient freights could not
This was
carry out a system of extended colonisation.
d that
a statement without foundation, for it eared _
in the year 1846 there were 1,585 ships, with a tO
ver
of 605,253 tons, which left this country in ballast r
./
year, this quantity would under the Passengers 421
he found to
allowing three passengers to every fire tons, afford
accommodation to 363,000 emigrants. Then it was 5.'lA
that the Irish people of all others made the worst km"
of emigrants ; this was, however, refuted by the from
of the ease, and the immense remittances sent frog!
America towards the relief of their friends in Ireland
was a most satisfactory answer to the charge thus
brought ag.,inst them. lie did not believe that there
was that difference in the character of the Celt and the
Saxon which some persons would endeavour to make oat.
There was nothing in the character of the Celt to de-
serve the character of indolence which had been so Jibe'
rally bestowed upon them. These opinions did not
exist in the colonies with regard to the Irish colonists
themselves, and he could not name a higher authority
upon this subject than Chief Justice Robinson, who
stated that the Irish were orderly and loyal, and as
most industrious of the colonists of that province. Sir
Wilmot Horton also bore the highest testimorlf
to the loyal and patriotic gallantry of the
Irish colonists. Captain Ball also corroborated the
honourable testimony borne by the former Gentleman'
It had been said, also, that colonisation from Ireland
would be confined to the lowest classes, he did not agree
with that opinion, and it was his firm opinion that the
educated and middle classes of Ireland would emigrates
in large numbers. The opinions of the Canadian Press
were very much disided upon the plan of emigratiora!
proposed by Mr. Godley, and he had no doubt that ton
scissors had been lately very industriously employed °r(l
those pap,.•rs in the colonial office. The Noble •
then read several extracts from a number of Caned
papers, expressing an opinion favourable to an extend,
system of colonisation. Mr. Sullivan, too, in an sko
dress, at the Mechanics Institute of Toronto, sPF.„
highly in favour of a most extensive colons;
tion, if properly conducted. There was root
said that gentleman, for 500,000 emigre'"
whose arrival would not prevent that
from being still an exporting country, although it clo
not be doubted that the best market for Canada was bat
nom@ markets. He would again assure the House thi,
he brought forward the motion without any partrift
ing, and he hoped that he had abstained from intrdS,;
he had not brought 'forward any plan, but he,
ing any sentiment which was objectionable to any secit:i
of the House.—(Hear, hear.) He might be taunted °—
commencement of his speech, stated that ,it was not at.
theh!go
intention so to do. but he only brought forward those
of others, in order to make a
pCwoohsmiec
postponing the consideration of the moearstuhree He
mhofiwssoirld
hshavonelpdracbteicalgereffnecteotasu:saena,ndorntecoawattsietefh'oamtninhcai°twspls°ainionst4at
brought the subject before the H
of confidence in the Colonial-office, nor wouldthis7
mea-
sure produce false expectations, as had been urg d by
those who objected to the plan. The Noble Lord at the
head of the Colonial-office, on the motion of the Hon.
Member for Limerick, some years past, had pointed out
colonisation as applicable to the present state of Ireland,
and if it should turn out that emigration was going on
as favourably as it was anticipated, the public would not
be satisfied with such a statement, unless it were satis-
factorily proved. Nor did he believe that such an
enquiry would impede the course of emigration
at the present moment, but he would freely
admit, that even if it did, he could not look
upon such a fact, as an evil of such extensive magnitudes
as some gentlemen were disposed to view it. He would
now apologise,to the House for the length of time which
he had detained it, and should thank the House fore`
attention which had been rendered to his arguelns
He, therefore, begged to place upon record his tea
the
for enforcing this subject upon the attention of
otts
Government, convinced, as he was, that a Ja--ai
system would lead materially to benefit the country'
and afford the most permanent relief to the calamities
cussAl rt.hHe AquWesEtioSnsainidthtlemstphireitwians
whichdisposedt
which oppressed her.
uite
o dig:
introduced Prop died'
it. But he considered that the
was not of so beneficial a character as he was died'
posed to look upon it. The Noble Isola
should remember that the very class which w,:f-:,
ly
take advantage of a system of emigration was pre--;
that class which it wou:d be desirable to retain in 1 " '1;
land. The Noble Lord did not giro any opinion eli?0,
any of the plans which he had brought under the netio
of the House ; he did understand, however, thstanai
would have advocated Mr. Godley's plan. Be „7,e-
-here say that the new system of colonisationstakase
completely from the old ss stem. Formerl these
schemes were undertaken by a number of public sPillos
persons, and they did not ever apply to the Governor,.
for assistance, but at the present day no one atteurPtc;io
scheme of colonisation unless large grants were alga
by the Government, which if they were retools,
exposed the Government to great odium. If there
any step taken to favour emigration, it would linwe
ow
diately check the voluntary emigration which, ilea
flowed on unimpeded. And if any sum was advent
for such a purpose, there were other portions or de,
United Kingdom who would be equally entitled to au
mand that they should not be excluded from a fair 11,174
portion.—(Hear, hear.) But whilst these inipEc,'',
means of colonisation had been going on, it would
at
well to turn to the colonies themselves, and look IS
had taken place since they came into operation. 11,•,„
regard to the Australian colonies—in 1835 the poMoe
tion was 102,949, and in 1845 it was 295,900.
imports to them in the former year amountedea_':
1,745,000L,and in the latter 1,990,000/. The exports h
srhesopwectthiveeglyr,ola,ot oi4.,oporooLveaninedn2t,lt7hsa,OtOhOat.d
want of employment when the labourer arrived !ele___„,.
place? He could assure the Noble Lord there.W.estbie
Australian. They got immediate employment, and ;tit
should be distributed over the country where they a erwoo
gpriaddullaoltlyalsat'lli°o
cere was taken by method and system that the eiangvirsu_n
labour would be absorbed. The Noble Lord •
him that is wad.
most required, and where it was most probraelgerreattri;
Mr. Godley's plan, but he could assure , •
upon the cePl
would have the effect of imposing
.a tax , ,_uotry,
of Ireland, which could be ill borne by that
theeo_
received very unfavourably throughout Canaaa,
This plan would take away nine millions of . es_l!,"l2;
of it tuiticsiPsteck
tageous at tha promoter
did not hno"vt millions
othf ethseehae bke- bwooduteldd
blealboocinulsi snail;