The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-26 00:00:00

terror and alarm they might obtainthat enfranchisementwhich
had been taken away when nothing but sound justice and good
policy demanded its extension. At that late hour of the night
he should not go into other matters with respect to the Irish'
franchise, on which they had heard so much in the course of
the debate, but that the Right Hon. Gentleman as well as
others had made appeals to him as to his opinions upon two
most important questions —in respect to the Repeal of the
Union, and relation to the general permanency of the Reform
Bill. With respect to the Repeal of the Union he had nothing
to add or retract niam the opinions he had already stated.
(Hear, hear.) These opinions were read by the Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman the Member fur Pembroke last night,
and were exactly in comformity with the:opinions stated by the
Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland in the name of himself, and Go-
vernment in November last. The opinions thus given out
by authority in which his Noble Friend the Lord-Lieutenant
declared that the Repeal of the Union would be fraught with
calamity, and must lead to the separation of the two countries.
These were his opinions; but while they were so, the more
he considered it a calamity, the more he dreaded such
a calamity coming on the country the more he considered the
just complaints of the people of Ireland.—(Loud cheers.) If
he were indifferent to the Union—if he thought that that Union
might be dissolved without much harm or inconvenience—if
it were merely a seccndary question—he should hardly feel so
great an interest in opposing the Noble Lord's Bill.— ( Hear. )
But it was because he liked—because he is as attached to, and
because he wished to maintain the Union, that he felt himself
bound as an English Member of Parliament as well as a Mi-
ni ter of the Crown, to see that the people were not wronged
by such a measure..—( Cheers.) Again, with regard to the
hefurm Bill; his opinions were the same as he had declared in
his letter to the electors of Stroud, in which he had placed them
on record. With regard to its being a permanent measure,
his opinions were unchanged, as they were also with regard to
the inexpediency and danger of reconstructing the representa-
tion of the country. But with such a case as was then made
out .to the House —with such a case, with regard to the fran-
chise in Ireland, as had been stated to then,—when it was
shown, on the one side, that the measure would lead to the
establishment of almost any kind of vote, while, on the other
hand, it was contended that it would extinguish the franchise,
he thought such case justified him in interfering with the
Irish Reform Bill. lie did not shut his eyes to the danger of
encroaching on that measure, and for that reason he
should ; have been reluctant and unwilling to
interfere at all with the Irish Reform Act, until
it was made absolutely necessary ; it was now made necessary,
not only by the introduction of the Bill if the Noble Lord,
but by the votes of the House during the past Session. With
respect to the franchise they propose to give, he considered
that there would be no ground or precedent for claiming such
a franchise for England. He had given the number of free-
holders in five counties in Ireland, and he should read the num-
ber in two counties in England, one of which the Noble Lord
•opposite represented, and the other being represented by
his Noble Friend the Chief Secretary for Ireland. In Lan-
cashire the total number of fi ceholders was 16,875;
and the total number in the registry was 27,796 ;
in York the number was 26,022, and the total on
the, registry was 49,529. Thus in these two English
countries alone there was a total of 07,325, and when such
was the franchise in England, when it extended to so many,
and when the franchise in Ireland was so restricted, was there
not a danger that the extreme disparity , might make the Irish
discontented ?—(Loud -cheers.) With respect to the whole of
the question, he was not a believer in the notion that the Irish
people would be so exasperated by the proceedings of that
house as that they would transfer their allegiance to
any foreign power ; he had no apprehension of that.
But the matter was nevertheless of grave importance.
With regard to foreign nations, was it nothing when they had
a treaty with any great Foreign Powers, or with America—
was it nothing that those communications should come from
the Minister of a Queen who reigned over a kingdom united in
hearts and affections ? All that could be said was that there
was discontent in a third part of the empire—that a portion of
it was subjected to tumult and convulsion. He woula put it no
further than that. As far as that they all felt the value of main-
taining the people of this country fully united. With respect
to the people of Ireland he begged to say he hoped they Would
not be led away by those representations, which he had no doubt
the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin himself sincerelybe-
lieved, but he thought that that Hon. and Learned Gentleman
was under a misapprehension with regard to the people of
England—he hoped that the people of Ireland would not be
led away by the representation that the people of England, or
any great portion of the people of England, entertained any
hatred towards the Irish people. There had been many re-
ligious prejudices in existence of old, no doubt—there had
been many instances of cruelty exercised, but he did not
think that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman derived any
benefit from those old recollections:—

" 0 passi grariora ! dabit Deus his fluorine finem."
—(Great cheering.) He entreated him to disbelieve there
was any such disinclination to do justice to the people of Ire-
land. He believed that the course pursued had constantly
been to lay before that House all the grounds for
and against any measure, either for lessening or in-
creasing the franchise of the people of Ireland.—( Hear. )
The measure for increasing might be met with indifference on
the part of many, but his belief was, if it were urged in a spirit
of good sense and reason, he would say not without vehemence,
because he thought that vehemence might be properly used in
a just cause; but without any undue intemperance or unjust
reflections on the people of England, that people would be
ready, and anxious, and gratified to do any act that they would
think for the benefit of Ireland. The people of Ireland had
suffered many disqualifications, their corporations were exclu-
sive monopolies. These evils were felt by the great body of
the people, but in the end they had been get rid of ; and he
believed this, that the inestimable benefits of the Consti-
tution would confer un the people of Ireland
the ample advantages it was calculated to give. Justice might
be thwarted, but in the end it would prevail.—( Tremendous
cheering.) And in the security of that conviction he fear-
lessly relied on the result of a division.
The House then divided, when the numbers were—

For the second reading
For the amendment
Majority for Ministers -5
The announcement of the majority was received. with loud
cheers from the Ministerial benches.

Lord J. RUSSELL then announced that the Bill would
be committed pro forma on Monday night, when his Noble
Friend (Lord Morpeth) would give notice of the evening when
it should be proceeded with.
The other Orders of the Day were thendisposed of, and the
House adjourned at a Quarter before Three •'Clock.

, Dugdale, W. S.
'Donbar, George
buncombe, W.
Duneombe, A.
Dungannon, Lord
Dui le, George
East, J. Buller

Eastilor, Viscount
Eaton, R. J.
Egerton, W.T.

Egerton, Sir P.
Egerton, Lord F.
Eliot, Lord
Estcourt, I'. G. B.
Farnham, E. B.

Fector, J. M.
Feilden, W.
Fellowes, Edward
Filmer, Sir Edward
Fitzroy, Hon. H.
Fleming, J.
Follett, Sir William
Forester, Hon. G.
Fox, S L.
Fresntleld, J. W.
Gaskell, James Mines
Gladstone, J. N.
Gladstone, W E.
Glynne, Sir S. R.
Goddard, Ambrose
Godson, R.
Gordon, Hon. W.
Gore, 0. J. R. "
Gore, 0. W.
Goring, Fl. D.
Goulburn, Henry
Graham, Sir James
Granby, Marquis of
Grant, Sir A. C.
Greene, I'. •
Grimsditch, Thomas
Grimston, Lord
dale, It. Blagdon
Halford, H.
Hamilton, C. J. B.
Hamilton, Lord C.
Harcourt, G. G.

Harcourt, O. S.
Hardinge' Sir H.
Hawkcs T.
Heathcote,
Sir W.
Heneagc, Cr W.
Henniker, Lord
Hepburn, Sir T. B.
Hcrriea, John C.
IEI4 Sir Rowland
Hillsborough, Earl
Minos, J. H. •
Hodgson, Frederick
Hodgson, Richard
Hogg. J. W.
Holmes, W. A'Cour
Holmes W.
Hope, lion. C.
Hope, H. 'l'.
Hope,,G. W.
Hothain, Lord

HouldsWortO, T.
Houston, George

.Huglies , W. B.
Hurt, frAncis
ingestrie, Lord
Inglis, Sir
Irton, S.

Jackson, Serjeant
James, Sir W. C.
Jenkins, Sir R.
Jermyn, Lord
Johnstone, Hope
Jones, John
Jones, Theobald
Kelburne, Lord
Kelly, Fitzroy
Kemble, Henry
Kerrison, Sir E.
Kirk, Pear
Knatchbull, Sir h.
Knight, H. G.
Knightley, Sir C,
Laseeaes, W. S.
Law, Hon. C. E.
Lefroy, D T. '

Lennox Lord A.
Liddell, H. r.

Lincoln,, Earl of
Litton, Eeward
Lockhart, A. M.
Long, W.
Lowther, J H.

Lucas, E.
Lygon, Hon. Gcn.
Mackenzie, Thomas
MacKenzie, W.F.
Mackinnon. W. A.
Maclean, D
M.Anon Lord

Maidstone, Lord
Manners, L.rd C,
Marton, George
Master, Colonel
Mathew, G. B.
Maunmell, p.
Meynell, H.
Miles, W.
Miller, W. h.

74ilne;, liich;rd
Monvpcnny T C,
Mordannt, Si. I.
Morgan, C. M.

,
Morgan Ortavius
Neeld, Jo.e.oh
Neeld, John

Nicholl, J.
Norreys, Lord

Ossulston, Lord
Owen, Sir Jon,
Parke, C. W
Pakington .T. S.
Pal cr,
Palmer, George
Parker, Montague
Parker, It. T.
Parker, T. A. W.
Patten, Wilson
Peel, Hon. Sir R.
Peel, Colonel .1.
Pemberton, Thowa.
Perreval, Colonel

PAI

Pigot, R.
Planta, J.
Piumptre, J. P.
Polhill, Frederick
Pollen, Sir J. W.
Pollock, Sir F.
Praed, W. T.
Pringle, A.
Pusey, P.
Rae, air William
Reid, Sir John R.
Richards, R.
Rickford, W
Rose, Sir George
Round, C. G.
Round, John
Rushaook, Colonel
Rushout, George
St. Paul, Horace:
Sanderson, R.
Sanden, Lord
Scarlett, J Y.
Shaw, Frederick
Sheppard, T.
Shirley, E. J.,
Sibthorp, Colonel
Smith, Abel
Smyth, Sir H.
Smythe, Ho . G.
-Sotheron, T. E.
Spry, Sir S. T
Stanley, E.
Stanley. Lord
Sturt, H. C.
Sugi.len, Sir Edward
Teizilmouth„ Lord
'Velment, J. E.
The,iger, F
Thomas, Colon.'
Thompson, Aid
Thornhill, George
Tollemache, F. J.
Trench, Sir
'lrevor, lion. R.
'Trotter, J.
Tyrell, Sir J. T.
Vete, Sir C B.
Verner, Colonel
Villiers, Loru
Vivian, J. E.
Waddington, H. S.
Walsh, Sir John
Welby, G. E.
Whitmore, T.
Wilbrahaxi, Hon. B
Robert
Williams' 'l'. P.
Wilmot, Sir
Wodeliouse, Hon. E.
Wood, Colonel
Wood, Colonel T.
Wyndham, N't
Wynn, C. W.
Yorke, Hon. E. T.
Young, John
Young, Sir L. W.

TELLERS.,
From ntle, Sir T.
Bating, 11. U.

AGAINST.
• Power: court, Lord
Davenport, J.
Crewe, Sir Ni.
Burdett, Sir F.
F.irylair, Sir George
Irving, John
Morland, 'l'.
Richard_
Ingham, Robert
Somer:et, Lord G.
O'Neil, J.
Miles, P. S.
Itolleston, L.
Stewart, John
Baring, F.
Ellis, J.
Lowther, i'Monel
Farraud, Hobert
Northland, Lord
Herbert, Hon. S.
Foley, E. T.
Jones, Wilson
Hayes, Sir E.

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 1841

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The Publication of the Evening Edition of THE Surf corn

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