The Sun.
London, England, 1841-03-02 00:00:00

MORNING EIinTION.

ttistinguiihed ;tielf, had entirely. disproved the state-
mentlwhieb had been made in reference to the low state
of thi navy. Assertions bad been made, not only in the
House, but out of it, that the navy had degenerated.
He well recollected the blame f iat was cast upon the
Board of Admiralty. It was . said that they bad neg-
lected theii" duty, and that in their bands the navy of
this country bad dwindled. Against such charges the
late-events afforded a much better defence than any
which could be made by the Admiralty. He did not
chim for them any grace for having seat out one of the
roost efficient fleets that had ever come into action ; all
be asked was that the House and the country would do
theni justice, and acknowledge that they had not been
unmindful of their duty. The Hon. Member concluded
by rao.,ing that a sum not exceeding 29,6941. be granted
to her Majesty for defraying the excess of expenditure
lot the year ending March 31, 1840:

Sir GEORGE CLERK regretted that he had not
paid more attention to the statements of the Right
Hon. Gentlemen—( Hear,: hear)—because no more
important subject could eorce under the, consideration
of the Houser_ and the country than the estimates now
before it, snore especially as they were called upon to
make novel the deficiency of former estimates, arse
when I heal,. was about t) be submitted to the Committee
estimate; cousiderebly exceeding in amount any that
bad beanbrought before the House for the last twenty
years'--(Hear, Lear)—when they must be considered
riot as id a state of peace, hut as if winding up the
aohounts atter a state of war.—(Hear, bear.) He
reropeeed to confine his observations before the Com-
mittee to the vet: now before it, and one of a precisely
sitndar nature which followed it, with regard to a
defieieecy in former estimates. He was precluded
from going, into any general observations on the esti-
mates foe the preset.t year, because that must form the
sdhieet- of a calculation upon the amount of the naval
foren 'which might be required under the circumstances
in
,which the country might be placed. He felt it im-
possible to er.t :r upon this subject in the absence of the
'Ala-lister of the Crown, whoie duty it was to furnish
'them with information. He must confess that when he
was called upon, tO vote 43,000 men for the naval ser-
vice of the ceem.try, he felt some surprise that the Se-
cretary of Sate for Foreign Affairs was net present to
calker an explanation on the subject to the Committee.
He felt also another difficulty, the Hon. Member :for
Kilkosany having made a Motion for the production of
a most important document-, and without it he felt it
irepossible to form a very correct estimate as to whether
that amount of force called for by the Right Hon.
Gentleman was adequate to the service of the country
or not. He wished aiso to call their attention to the
circumstance of the under-estimates of termer years.
That was ti point which tee House should look at with
greet caution at ell times, because, if they brought for-
ward the supplemental et tirnatee, they lost the advan
tage of that house heving control over the expenditure.
It was a different thing to refuse their assent to the es-
timate, in wl ich the whole policy of the country might
be .cake I into.qesstion, and to refuse the payment den
expense already incurred. He was willing 'to admit
that it was impossible to estimate every contingency
that might accrue in the naval service. ( Hear.)
The whole of the naval votes had been, up to last
year, sufEe'eat to cover the entire of the expenses,. Ile
confessed that I.e was not. sethfied with the explanation
which had been given by the Right Hon. Gentleman
the Secretary for the Adiniralty, both with regard to
the deficiency of the year 1839, and the deficiency for
the year 1840. In the first place, he (Sir G. Clerk)
Was disposed to think that the deficiency of 1839 was
eonsideral ly higher than the sums shown to be taken.
The balance stated was 29,600/., for which the vote
was now taken ; but the balance of the former year
remained unexplained, especially upon the ground.e
stated to the Admiralty, namely, that the accounts be-
longing properly to the year 1839 for the Cape of
Good Hope and Trincomalee had not been received.
One of 'the ways in which the deficiency was sought to
be made up was by making a demand on the Tie isury
for the exnenses incurred by the insurrection in
Canada. Now, he wished to know on what grounds
the naval d pertinent rratie such claims? The first
item in these claims was for wages of sea- I
men end marines. He was desirous of knotting I
for what seamen anJ marines theso demands were made ?
The deficeicy the estimates for the year 1839
wae, instsa, lof behig 26,600/. as the vote now place I
in the Chairman's hands showed, really above 70,000/.
Tim' eat a very important deficiency, and one for
which, he confessed, the Right Hon. Gentleman the
Secretary for the Ad:niftily had net assiened any suf-
ficient reason. There was extreme inconvenience in
coming forward at to ions times and voting certain
sums for the navy at one period, and certain sums et
anethrr period. To couple the Naval to the Supple-
mentary Estiina'es was thg way to make a great de- I
ficiency in the estimates for the present year, The
only explanation that could be offered by the Naval
D •pertenent for brieging them forward in this way
was, that the reason for some of the estimates could
not heva been foreseen. But he said they must have
known it, or, at least, that they ought to have known
it—(" Hear, hear," from Colonel Sibthorp, and
laughter)—and to have; seen that the Supplemen-
tal Estimates they called upon the House t 3
N,te were perfectly adequate to the demands
of the service. He (Sir G. Clerk) took occasion when
tl:e Chancier of the. Excite quer brought forward his
budget on the 15th of May last, to call his attention to
the excess of expendituie of the navy at that period,
nod to show him that by the account he had laid upon
the tall,: of the House, it appeared that the naval de-
eartrreat b teeen the Ist of Aprd 1839 and Ist of
April 1840 had received 300,000/. more than the sum
voted for the services of ten years by the House, and
he had asked him (the Chancellmr of the Exchequer)
for some explanation, which, however, was not given.
He (Sir G. Clerk) Lai stated that the consequence
must be that sums must have been taken from the
estimates vutrd for the current year to provide for the
excess of former years, and that the Right Honourable
Gentleman would find the sums for the present year
would not be suflicieat, and that there would 'be a
very large deficiency of revenue as compared with the
expemrture. He had moved on the 15th of that
month for an account which. showed how that money
had been provided. It appeared that in April 1839,
there remained a balance of the votes of
the former year of no less than 460,204/., the
whole of which .sum was no doubt required
to discharge expenses previously incurred, and properly
belonging to the year in which the money was voted.
Tee cavil department had required for their expenses
300,000/. more than had been voted for the purpose.
Tee Admiralty seems to have kept the Treasury in the
dalt as to the sum they would require, which he thought
thi had no right to do ; or else the Chancellor of the
Exchequer was wrong in not bringing under the notice
of the House the increased excenditure of the navy. It
appeared to him that the vicious departments of the
State acted as if they were independent of each ether,
and that no two were aware of another's proceedings.
—(Hear, bean) There had been a gross blunder in
the preparation of the estimates of last year. The
number of men required to complete' the complement
of the ships was 26,000, while the Admiralty proposed
a vote for 24,000 only. The Noble Lord the Secre-
tary for the Colonies had toll them on that occasion,
that he did not think any increased number of seamen
would be required in consequence of the situation in
which the country was placed. He (Sir G. Clerk) had
been glad at the time to have heard that announce-
ment, but he found the House had been misled by it.
The Noble Lord must himself Lave known that France
had then refused to be a party to the settlement of
the Eastern Question. When the supplementary
estimates had been brought forward, the Noble Lord, on
being asked whether the Govemment intended to send a
reinforcement to the Mediterranean, answered that
they did not, aid that we were not to have more ships
in July than in January. A few weeks after, however,
a tale vessel, the Calcutta, was commissioned for the
Mediterranean. He thought therefore he was justified
in saying that if the Noble Lord, the Secretary for the
CiVonia, had been in communication with the Noble
LOrd, the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, it would have
been impossible for him to make the statement which
he had matins---(Hears hear.) With regard to. the
the vote
for 16.1.,500/.,
the Right Hon.
IGentleman, tn
Secre-
tary to the Admiralty, had said that if the
for it last et, r, they
might hive excited theyhad moved
suspicion of
foseten Power:. He•thought, however, the: ,'f they ac-
cepted such a justification they would be laying down
a
very dangerous precedent. The Government might,
in that case, bring forward low estimates, and, atter
expenses had been incurred, they would have no power
to refuse the payment of them.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
He thought that was a dangerous principle, af-
fecting ono of the great privileges of that House,
name y, the power of maintaining a control
over the Exchequer. He did not think
the Right Hon. Gentleman's explanation en that sub-
j• et had been satisfactory. The sum required might be
called an e•fraate, but it was in reality a vote for a sum
of money to make good the deficiency of last
appeared on the farce of the estimates that year
.they
had
It
28.700 amen, whilm there had beets only '27,450 voted.
.A great increase would appear to have b d 3 in
our navel force in the month
of October,n me .
the
Howe t e
Howe and Britannia had hem seat to the when
ledite r.
re tn. But surely our vessels ought at that
time to have
been at ful, comp enent, and they n.O t then have had
es,ooo men. - Time fact was the Admiralty and the.
Got ernrrient were afraid of the opposition of the Hon.
Member for Kilkeeny—(Cheers)---who always objected
to every increased expedditure. They ought to been
laid the circumstances fully before the House at the
time of moving the supplemental estimates of last year,
but they had then kept out of sight a great part of the
expenditure which bad been incurred. He thought they
must also have kept the Chancellor of the Exclmequerin the
dark. Ile did not thitiLtLc sums now asked would be
sufficient to cover the outstanding demands which et
present existed: .He should'like to know from•the Right
Hon. Secretary to
the' Treasury why the accounts moved
for by his Hen • • Friend the Member for Harwich had
not yet been laid on
pcetant den:lent in discussing
these estimates.