The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-18 00:00:00

MORNING EDITION.

meeting the present financial difficulties that they could
adopt was a direct taxation of real property. The Noble
Lord (Lord J. Russell) was right in not adopting that
course ; but yet if he did be would be at liberty to ask
the co-operation of lion. Gentlemen opposite, as they
had on similar occasions as the present adopted such a
course. With respect to the proposition which Ministers
had laid before the House, he trusted they would act with
firmness and decision. If they were defeated (as he feared
they would) in the present instance, lie -trusted they
would not separate without bringing before.' the conside-
. ration of the House that other great and important ques-
tion which many out of that House desired to st'f? again
• discussed within its walls—he meant the question of the
Corn-laws. He hoped they would follow -up that
great proposition, and appeal to the sense of the
country.—(Ministerial cheers, answered .by ironical
cheers from the Opposition)—that they would give the
country an opportunity of - judging and .of exhibiting
its judgment as to whether the proposition was for the
benefit of the people iv eat,
Mr. snturr conceived that the right of importirtg
any commodity, from whatever country they chew,
which was granted to the West Indian merchants, was
not a boon but an act of justice, and on the <atne prin-
ciple it was, in his mind, but justice to
the people of this country to allow sugar
to be imported from every quarter of the globe.
It had been said that by admitting foreign sugar we
should promote slavery abroad. This wasein important
question ; but in discussing it we must take the matter
as a whole, and go into general principles.—(Hear, hear.)
This, however, was refused by lion. Gentlemen on the
other side, who appeared to have no objection to the
introduction of any article of slave produce but' sugar.
They were bound, if they had any regard to consistency,
—if they did not take measures fin- the entire prohibi-
tion of all other slave-grown commoditiesat least to
take measures for their gradual exclusion; and not only
so, but they ought to pass a non-importation Act, for
every bale of British goods imported into. the Brazils
had, according to the principles of Hon. Gentlemen, a
tendency to increase slavery abroad; Therefore, it they
relied in full consciousness on the strength of their argu-
ment, they must carry it out. much further, and cut off
the produce of ell 'nations -where slavery exists, in Order
to compel them to abandon that atrocious system.
He believed so - far from such a course lead;ng
to such results it would have the opposite - effect, and
only excite feelings of irritation in the minds of the
people of that country, not only against ouieelves, but
against the principles it was our object to impress upon
them. He believed this object was to be attained by per-
suasive, and not by coercive measures,. but, above rill, ny
showing them that, in carrying into of these princi-
ples of justice and humanity, we had been at the same
time but consulting our own interests.— (Hear, hear.)
On these grounds, and looking at the question of-slavery
alone, lie could feel no hesitation in supporting her Ma-
jesty's Government on the present occasion. `Ph-ewer-es.
one class of opponents whose conduct had astonished
him not-tr little, and that was the West Indiaplanters.
When he considered how long they had resisted not
only the abolition of the slave trade, but of slavery itself,
he must say it was with great astonishment he heard
them come forward and charge the Noble Loiel with
encouraging slavery.—(Cheers.) Were he to express
his feelings on the subject as strongly as he entertained
them, he feared he might be tempted to use languege
that would nut be strictly parliamentary.—(Cheers,)
lie would challenge them with hypocrisy ; but
when lie considered that the present was the first time
he had heard of these professions, he thought no sufficient
case-had been made out on the ground of these meia-aa...
sions to refuse relief to a suffering people.----(llear, hear.)
.He only 'wished to add that he felt the greatest satis-
faction : at the general measure propPkti by her Mee
jesty's Government, and he was sure they would be re-
ceived with like satisfaction by the people of the country.
He was rejoiced that the Noble Lord hel _taken in hand
the great and difficult question of the Corn-laws,. and,
above all, that lie had alvea up the system of a sliding
duty, which lie believed was fonuded in fraud and delusion.
He thought that the 'Hon. Member for West Kent vans
wrong in supposing that it was he business of Ilutt
House to deterthine what the price of corn should he,
Government on this sea-kir/et had
The great error of the
been, in not leavinzthis to be determined by the thrillers
anti time *elle were-most interested. The noll.Xteralrer
for Surrey had objected to the proposed systerti, •017.'ae-
count of its uncertainty, lint this was the great 'oom-
plaint against the present Corn-laws, that one...emelt, of
the unsteady price they could not be paid ;or in manu-
factured goods, anti this oceasienally I,:ift: to a drain of
bullion and a derangement of tiie currency No argu-
ment on- this subject had more tarengthened his convic-
tion than this. He thanked the Government tar having
taken up the question In the manner they had (blue, and
in putting out of the way all minor considerations, and
he was sure that in doing • so he would receive the sup-
port of the great mijovity of the people of the country,
to which he believed they were justly entitled.—(Cheers.)
Mr, MAltii. PHILIPS said that elthough the Hon,
Member for Newark (Mr. Gladstone) had said that
many would give their support to her Majesty's Ministers
with doubting 111410 A and quailing hearts, he rose to give
his vote nit the,iproeent., fweasion without such feelings,
either with reference to himself or those he had thq
honour to represent. On the contrary, ho had never
felt greutee confidaneteethan he Amid, do, in giving hist
vote on the Vrtisent,.oetaiitm, for he believed there ex-
Wed the most perfect unanimity of :feeling between him-
self and his coristitnents. with respeet to the prOpOsitlon
of her Majesty's (lovernment.e-(II;ar, hear.) If any
constitnellUY dittinguiehed itself with reference to
mho abolition of shivery,' it was that which he had the.
honour to represent, and he had therefore felt. the
greatest pleasure in receiving from the Secre-
tary of the . Anti-Slavery . Society in. Manehester,
within the last day or two, n statement that only two in-
dividuals cenneeted with that body had the slightest
hesitation in coming forward and declaring their tulhe-
&ion to the proposition of the Government:—(Hear, hear.)
He dm-lighten+ a speech its that of the. Hon, 'Member for
the TowerHanileta (Or. Lushington). was ,ealctillited to
do great injury. The lion. Member .11nd said, that lie
lied not the slightest doubt that the people of this, country
would prefer a dinner of herbs to the stalled o so prof-
fered to them. He thought the lion. and Learned Mem-
ber, in making. that statement, had certainly outsteppeil
all proper and fair estimation of the feelings 'of the
operatives of this country. - He (Mr. M. Philips) did
nut deny that these individuals sympathised with the
negroes; he believed they did so far more than those who
more loudlyee4ressed their sympathy:---(hear, hear.)
But as regarded these unfortunate operatives, he thought
it was almost insulting their feelings to talk of their pre-,
ferring a (limier of herbs. They had dined on them toe
long ; with them it was no matter of choice 'rat of
necessity,—(llear.) And when he was among his own
constitute-Its, many of whoni he saw toiling from morning
to night, anxious, by the honest industry, to gain a live-
lihood for their families, -he .did sympathise most deeply
with them.—,-(Hear, hear.) With `regard to our trade
wi th the Braails, he believed at this moment it amounted
t 01,00,000/., and the importened-ofits.continuance would
therefore net -be disputed by'any except by those who
carried out their sympathetic feelings. Without refer-
ence to praetieal experience, lie (Mr. M. Philips) had
had souse oxperienee in the trade -ro'the'Brazils, when he
fleet entered in cernmercial life, and he stated with pride
them throughout a long course of tears they had never
supplied articles to thatcountey that would go indirectly
into the
.Atrican trade, It appeared by '.'ne
official returns that the value of our export,, in
the present year was ,en 3,000/. In his opinion.. it was
far larger ; but flits was quite sufficient for his "purpose,
for it would thus he fiaind that upwards of 2,000,0001.,
repeeeenting industry by the articles of. hard-
ware, cotton, dud it-on, were exported to this country.
Now, what was the position of the trade at the present
moment ? it had been curried on for years, aud they
fled liever before heard a work against if. Our seer-
chants had beeu obliged to give long credit to thc'ener-
chants of the Illettils, as in all other parts Of- the world,
and this' had enabled them to complete their plantations.
It hilght be said they, lent their capital to be employed in
the slave trade. slut would any one say they could put
down a of this description-?lThiit would be the Con-
seil
.tualke attempting to put an elni to such a trade as
-trils-t- 'Those-engaged in the home trade would lielhfown
°Mt employment,' anti would be obliged to resort to the
poor-house forrelief ; a tax would fall in consequence
upon the machinery, which, instead of being able to com-
pete with the, other nations of the world, would ehos be
exclndi4i from competition. Let them look At :the im-
fsirtance of the trade with reference to another question;
in what positien would they be placed hi 184'.1; -in seek-
ing a continuance of the treaty with Brazil.? Was this
a 111£1,ttk, of no importance to the shipping interest of this
c!eantev ? In 1839 not a ship could find a retu.''''c'arg()
to the country front whence it came. It 'e atruc
~se wea-
°--'mnconstrou.
sels touched at many ports, but it did.not,
fullote
that they would get a. cargo. This
WlBinterest
t,otalition fora large portion of The shipping;,
'9f.i the votuary it they should
not
the
of
renewal of they
the country to bo placed in. Then lx,kabaitettTi,
negotiate,
?SO Alto Brazilian Government for.
enjoyed. Ile said tlaa ceeetemeecial treaty we at present
tlme reins
atintteehoulerun no risk of being ruined. It was the
in this ce+uutr~' ro ttuillje; e"(..harue 1 it'hiadt important t"tahlb's-re.alp.illicalrhten:/)ttff
'teems if he had not drawn :met)-
, that
ty
trade. Ho
tl-I,l:llfielittniotulett
t:1;1 promote,onufg(o)etsrt-heoarn,v
have
nddi
sicn,hcarre tg:et
the question. but
his dut%. to his con,tt _
ti,ai to phis import:int subject. He was sure there went
' those who required our sympathies. at home, and he eon-
ntlttil,-6nr,lia.sh7ei3allacitte'sbt)rlsnl,Aridir fitemrsvtut().:dinifltteteestolptit.hrttetucehseedencisffi(t,nveiN°en'uhtieirtC;hs:.
theiiol enterprisedl
gi a
they had had the
by auj miirtingr the manliness
of carrying the princip/Le
u
01` 'free trade in -a manner that would give employeeentto those whn were
anxious to avail themselves of it.
He had often been solicited by the hand-loom weavers
imoney itthanitvilistiobzen,ol
of Lancashire to bring
not to
ttoh(;idropfatvsotuA
aHsetehpad.
ba always
forward a Vote of a. grant of
ut
felt, that if some remedy were not devised b'v a new
s..ystem' of legislature as regarded the necessaries of life,
such a grant wonld become indispensable. They had
heard on various occasions that it was the intention of
the petemoters of the New Poor-law to drive the people
to use a coarser deseription of food, He had always
denied that stetenient, and had held it to be a libel I.l' CkV.
the
; but he was persuaded that the rese:it
in question would follow from the policy of those 'who
would maintain existing monopolies. Ther;ayi'of
meeting time eerenses of the country by :mewed
taxation )ted already been tried, and 'earl com-
plea* failed. It -vas now time to resort to
II different course. he trade of Enela
:id had been de-
clining of late ears. and he was confi
..tent that this state
of woulil become irremedirAole if existing restric-
"'fella-were continued, and th 4,16 Hon.
Gentleman oppo-
site the evil might be fairly attributed.
fir W -B
. W. -
ARRON opposed the resolution of the
Noble Lord the Member for Liverpool ,for six distinct
reasons.—(A laugh.) lie opposed it first, because be
thought, however paradOxical it might appear, that it
would tend to perpetuate slavery in every country he

MORN INC, EDITION

- -
which it now existed. Other nations would say that if
the emancipated celoniete of this country could not
compete with slave labour even with a grant
20,000,0001. eoel peetetedee e; :79 per cent.. weold
be hopelees for them to ettempt to succeed where Eng-
land melee thoee cireurnstances had felled. He therefore
opposed the resolution of the Noble Lord, because he was
himself a consietent opponent to slavery. He next op-
) oied that motion because he believed it would be highly
injurious to the people of this country to continue our
present Custom-house regulations, which had already de-
prived us of many markets in Europe and in America.
Had not the blind system of monopoly adopted is Eng-
land forced the German States into the Prussian League,
to the great detriment of manufacturers of this country ?
It was non-Timis that few of our goods ever found their
way to the fairs of Leipsic and Dantzic, where they over-
flowed thirty years ago. The resolution of the -Noble
Lord would pereetuate the evil, and it could not, cense-
queetly- have his approval. He opposed it, again,
because, if it were carried, the Irish people
would look upon it as a resolution to unseat a
Government which had won their attachment, and be-
cause it would shake their confidence in the British
House of t lemmone, and would contribute more to a Re-
peal of tile • LTeioe than peke meaelre that had been de-
vised of late yearee. He said this because he knew the
Irish people, and their feelings, and determination ; and
he felt; it his clay to warn the British Legislature before
they raised up seven or right millions of men in arms
against then:.—(bear, hear, on the Opposition Benches.)
He said that figuratively, but the success of the resolution
would raise them up in direful opposition against any Go-
vernment that might succeed the present. Fourthly, he
oppesed the resolution became he detested monopoly in
tve:y sh sl e ; he detested monopoly in religion, but he
d ,tested monopoly in trade and commerce above all
things. The resolution, however, would tend to confirm
monopoly in its worst form as it would affect the neces-
saries of life. The . West Indians had no right to coin-
plaia ; they had received an enormous bounty ; they
were about to receive an enormous protection ; and he
knew not what they expected, unless they wished the
people of England to pay them more for their estates than
the actual value of them. He hoped the resolution of
the Noble Lord .the Member for Liverpool would be
scouted by the House ; he was sure it would be by the
country ; and he hoped that the Government would feel
it their duty to appeal to the country on these measures
cheers from both sides of the House)—and he
thought that. after' the little trial which they hall al-
ready. seem of the popular feeling—(lmmense cheering
,eom the Opposition, which drowned the conclusion of
the seetence.) He understood that cheer, and he would
come to that subject presently—he meant the feeling
which had been manifested by the anti-slavery body
throughout the country—(Loud Ministerial chee-rs)---by
those who had been ail their lives opposed to slavery—
'`,lieers)—by those who had advocated the cause of
negro emancipation, when there were slaves within our
own dominions to 'be emancipated.—(Loud cheers.)—
The people were not to be deluded by the new-
born zeal for the blacks of Hon. Gentlemen opposite,
and they must be aware, even by this time, that their attempt
to get up an Arai-Slavery cry was an utter failure.—(Loud
cheers.) lie objected to the resolution by the Noble Lord,
because be thought it would tend materially to shake the faith
of the public co ditor if questions of this sort were turned into
mere weapons of party warfare.—(Cheers, and counter-
cheers.) When the public creditor saw that the revenue was
vest equal to the expenditure—(Oppositim cheers)—and when
be sew a large and influential body Of Members of that. House
seeking. for party purposes, to negative a proposition of the
Ciiencellor of the Exchequer to snake good such deficiency,
• we'ilioet hintinr any means by which they themselves would
eropere to make it gcod, he must naturally have his faith
shaken.— Clime s. )tie was shocked to see men of property
awl ittfluence tending themselves to such disgraceful conduct.
wee net fair. and he did not intend to toe the word offen-
sively, it was not honourable.--( Loud cheers.) He under-
stood the epee; qhit-th Hon Gentlemen opposite had given
when he meotioneer • isn appeal to the country.—(oopcseion
cheeps.) It vies a folloeing
up of the expressions made use of
by the Noble Lord the other evening, when he taunted
11itinisters with losing borough after borough. —( Of'posi-
tion cheers.) But he would ass .the Bight Hon. Baronet the
Member ler *lanvivorth if he sve.e willing to sail in the same
boat ....Ali some of those who had recently been retu ned to
that House as his suepor ers.—( Loud eheers from the
:erial benches.) Was he prepared to adept tee principles of
the Chartists of Nottingham?—(Cries of " Oh, eh," and
lanoyee• from the Oppositi as, answered by cheers from the
Ministerial benches.) Wes he prepared to adopt the crusade
against .New Pet- Law ?—( Courinued cheers from the
Ministerial i:fteitts-) He would 114 the Right Hon. Baronet
if he would likee,ee have a majority of each supporters ?
(Cries of Oh," ai:tleiaugeter Item the Opposition. He khese
Ile was speakine uutialetantes truths to the gentlemen cppesite,
but he believed that the :light lion. Baronet was far too candid
snot to allow that those wine not fLe principle's on which he
"could rook for supnort.—((%heers. ) So that, without alluding
to the stieetnctits of Lord liancliffe in the politic papers, w ithout
ailt.ding to the 16.0012 which was said to have (:Pen lest, mis-
laid, stoles, or strayed during the recent election at Notting-
ham, without a Witte; to the brihery said to be so *rarely
"'craft" at Nottingham, Canterbury—Cries from the Op-
Restition of ' St. Albans")--arel elsewhere—(Cheers and
eemghter)—be must say that 1w did not believe those
who hart been recently retained to an House con-
wanted exactly the /lass of supporters which the
tight Hen. Baroeet would desire.—(Loud elie-rs,) How
could they trust to their present zeal fir slavery, when they
recollected how that party had, orle after another, abandoned
every one of their great principle.. They had abandoned the
_Test and Corporation Acts.—(Cheurs.) The mein sweet
of
flit it power had been their resistance to Catholic Ernatteina-
Con- -that resistance they had abandoned.-7 (Cheers.) They
had elways possessed the greatest antipathy to reform. They
were now the most strenuous admit ens of the Reform
(Cheers. ) And the light Hon. Gentleman had steted hie
esviliingnese to refers all proved abuses.—( Cheers and coun'ere
eers.) They had aoateioned every one of their great prin.
enders, and if they came into power, he should net be surprised
to see the -Noble Lied the Member for North Lancashire
eenstag down to the House with a Bill for the abolition of
fifteen 'r twen'y Engilsb Bishoprics—( Cheers and laughter)—
tee niaet Hon. Baronet the Member for Pembroke coming
forward witil a proposition for the admiseion sf I xe;gn corn
tree from dutv.:2e(Cheers, Itughter, and cries of " Oh, oh,"
I. om the Opissitiote) Why not ? It would only be a return
to his first luxe.--( jeme4e.cheere and laughter.) Neither would
Right Bon. Gentlemen near the
it astonish him to see the
boned
lion. Barenet the Meno‘'er Ate Pembroke cumin:: for-
*..rd with a proposition for the Ballet—
(Cheers and laughter)
a
—ter they had seen measures of quite 25
groat import Hence
rod
ateoned by that party, who were now
in their attempts to bid for popularity, but whose re:'w "11 for
Anti-silvery was not%ing more than their old zeal for ,4e
at-
teinment of office and power.—(Cheers.)
air. WILLIAMS would hesitate before supporting the
propositions of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, if he thought
they would at rllinte' fere with the great experiment of negro
.emancipation. but after carefully considering the question, he
could Lot see how it could in any manner doso. From the year
1823 to .1840, the average price of colonial sugar had been
elle. RI., while that of foreign auger had been 245. 6d , to I
'which,' if he added. 12s. 7d. the differential duty proposed by
Ministers, it wouid give 37e. I 'Ad. as the average price of
foreign sugar, lo that there was a balance of 4s. 3d. in favour
of colonial staple' For the last seven years the average
price of colonial ..„.sugar had been 37s 2d., that
of foreign sugar t d been 235. 6d., to which, if they
added the differential - duty, it would make 365. Id.
as the prise of foreign eager, me:hie a difference of
only Is. ld., so that. under those cireumstancet, no foreign
sugar could have found its way jut° the market. Last year
there had been a great failure of the crops ; they were told that i
this year there would be a plentiful supply, if so, they would have
nothing to dread`from an importation of foreign sugar. All
the sympathies of the Hon- Gentleman opposite seemed con-
fined to the black-.; they entirely forgot the effect produced by
tce high prices on the condition Cl the labor rug population
in titer is country. (Cheers.) The black labourer was Let-
ter pai,l than the labourer in England; the black labourer its
the \i'csi !tidies had 4s. a day, where was the English labourer
who was eaening half those wages (Cheers.) All the ne-
cessaries of /ire were clasper to the West Itiiian labourer than
to the English one. The West Indian got ,``is flour from
America, whet. it was l2s. a baled, add to that the duty of di.
per tsarsel, and abow fifty per cent. for freight and chare'''e. atm
it would give an .amount equal to 225. Bd. an English qua:ter
for wheat, while the English labourer was compidled to jiav, in
f. 1632, Oils. 61.. cud in lelo, 70s. 6d. per quarter for wheat.
whatever light Is • looked at this question, he could not see
etc justice of the ground taken up in the other side of the
House in attempting to keep upon the people of this country
the present unequally of charge upon sugar. The proposition
of the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the subject of sugar
would tend to increases consumputin, and therefore it must in-
crease the revenue. Having recently visited Canaria, he
wished to make a few observaoons with respect to the timber
duties. He believed the alteration proposed by the Chancel_
for of the Exchequer. wliich would still leave a protecting
,oty,. would not produce any material injury to that countrys
He viewed the present prospects of the manufacturers with
chain, and apprehended the worst cousequences, unless they
could ,elieve them from the distresses under which they la-
lenred. .fhe
prepoisit ion laid before the House by the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer must become the law of the land, for
the fmtene of the country was so strong upon the question,
-that whateteir narty came into power they must be carried.
Mr. T. DUNCONI BE, finding from the conduct of lion.
Gentleman opposite, in the early part of the discussion of the
evenine, finding also from the studious silence of these Hon.
Gentle-mete, it was evident that on their part there existed an
anxious de,ire to bring tie discussion to a speedy conclusion—
(Loud-cheers)—arieilig not merely from the weakness of their
cause and the want of argument to support it, but arising also
-Atom the delusion under which they seemed to labour, thst they
after—know-
would enter upon the sweets of office immediately
would nothave inter-
•
fame; that such an anxiety prevailed, be
poste e •lb between there anti their foremost wishes. did henot know
that the longer the debase was protracted the better would the
,
country understand the motives actuating those in favour of,
and against the proposition of the Government.—(Tremendous
cheering.; Not only so, but the better would the country ap-
preciate the resolutions which had been proposed,and the amend-
ment moved thereto by the Noble Lord.—( Hear and cheers.)
'They would not (tidy appreciate and discriminate between the
le induce of the two parties, but they would set a value upon
the resolution propounded by the Noble Lord, the 31ember
for Liverpool, which for its unparaliele d inconsi:tere-y—
-(Cheers)—its barefaced duplieity—(Cheers(—rte matchless
bypecrisy— (lewd cheers and laughter)—had never been ex-
ceeded in the annals of Parliament.—(Loud cheers.) lie
rise to claim some of the sympathy which the Hon. Gen-
tleman opposite appeared to be now so full of, he rose to
.claim some of it for our suffering and distressed countrymen.
_He cs.nratulated the Han. Gentlemen opposite upon the
:fidelity with wiiich they could keep a secret. Appeals hid
kern matte to thou over erne over again to know what they
-anA do in tee event of their succeeding to r.flice, but with
gle exception of the Honourable :itemiser for the Uci-
eersity of Cembridee, .they erre a. s lent as the re aye:—
Theer,l) "I ha' Right hirsts. Gentleman had cognettee
little with; the subject he said that Alui,teri had DroOvved
the difficOsr, end they trust preside a reste.es., bet be
„le, had produced the diffieuny ? • The two
X.'"at liens of the ti. iieeency arose net irom the penny p, ta,e,
a easter • nisei, was authorised by Parliament. and ha met
.he a2protation of the whole country.—(t-he.rs.) 'plat
deteeile, cy wet in the Excise, and arose mitirely from the im_
irthits of the Irish people.—(Cheers.) How, teen,
wont,: tile lion. Gentleman propose to meet those ditliculties
"Shea t. test came into office ? Would they dare to raise the
postage e' letters ?—( Cheers from' the 'Teeirs)—or would
%Ley take me 'sores to pro Mote inebriety in Ireland? Did they
mean to take e,eether half million out of the pockets of the
starving people, tet;',:sbat they were pleased in -call Church
Extenston ?—( Hear, 'hear. ) Or, as 1; was suggoied by
the Hon. Member !oleAntrim, were they about to pay
1.700.0001 more to tie ,eampeted slave drivers of the West In-
idles ?—( Hear. hear.) . kleat the Right Hon. Gentleman, after
coquetting with the su,*et, raid if the Right Hon. the
Chancellor of the Exchtsquer called on him for a remedy,
he would state it ; end the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
good easy man, pTicked ens his ears, thinking what
a good man, what a disieiteretted patriot, he was,