The Sun.
London, England, 1847-05-01 00:00:00

TRH

"ts:on-rs, with reference to the inquiry into the Andover
Union, those .2roceedings appear to hare been irregular
au•3 arbitrary. especially in respect to the dismissal of
Mr. Day and Mr, Parker. It was now eight months
since that report was laid neon the table of the House,
and still the same Poor-law Commissioners remained in
full power, inflicting the same cruelties on the poor of
the country generally as those they inflicted upon the
poor its the Andover Union. Her Majesty'S Government
bad screened these Commissicners eight mOntha, and
they were now attempting to screen them still farther.
The notice had been a long time on the paper of the
House, and yet the Government had not introduced the
Bill. It had been put on the list last night, when the
Right Honourable Baronet knew that it could nut
be di,cussed It had also been postponedj till next
Monday, when there were four or five other mo-
tions which had precedence. If the Government
desired the Bill to go forward, why not have
fixed it for Friday night, when there were no other
motions on the paper? He wanted a pledge from the
Government that they would fix a night of theirs for
the discussion of the question, giving lair notice to the
opponents of the New Poor-law to be present. Unless
they did so, he would himself bring the conduct of the
Poor-law Commissioners under the consideration of the
House.

Sir G. GREY said, that when he gave notice of his
intentioa of introducing the Bill he had no inten-
tion of taking the discussion on it then, but to
make a statement of its provisions, and fix a
night when the whole discussion could be taken.
He had fully expected that time would have been allowed
for the statement last night, but the lateness of the dis-
cussion which had arisen prevented him doing so. lie
had postponed the Bill, therefore, till Monday next, the
earliest Government day, in the hope that after the
Factory Bill was disposed of there would be time
enough for the statement which he had to make.
After he had made his statement, and the Bill was in-
troduced, he would name a day for the secmid reading,
when the discussion would he taken.

RAILWAYS, PIEAS, AND HARBOURS (IRE-
LAND) BILL.
On the motion that the order of the day for the House
going into Committee on the Railways, Harbours, Piers,
&c. (Ireland) Bill being read,
Mr. IV )EBUCK rose reluctantly to call the attention
of the House while he stated the reasons why he was
about to propose an amendment to the proposition of the
Government. The subject. was now fairly before them,
and he would state the grounds why he obje,ted.
What was it the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer pr.posed to them to do ? He asked them to go
into Committee of Supply, for the purpose of doing
that, which in the early part of the session, he and those
who voted with him told the House, in the strongest
manner, wa.. in the highest degree inimical to the
interests of the country. He would feel it necessary to
read to the House some of the words of the Right
Honourable Baronet, although it was not his
habit to have recourse to this mode of argu-
ment. Now he wished to call the attention
of the ficaise to the circumstances connected with this
question of railways in Ireland. It might be in the
recollection of every one in that House, that in the com-
mencement of the session the Noble Lord opposite
(Lord G. Bentinek) introduced into the House a measure
fir the purpose of establishing railways iii Ireland.
Now, at that time the situation of the c,aintry was
different to what it was at the present time.
Then there was no great pressure in the
money market; the commerce of the country was in as
flourishing a state as it was usually in at that period of
the year. The Noble Lord's Bill, after embracing a
gem_ rill view of the state aft he country. proposed to ask
from this country a loan of 16,000,0001. ; but he pro-
posed to ask this at different times, arid the sum—it he
recollected rightly—which was proposed to he raised
in :he first year was 4,000,000/. Now at
that time the description whicii he (Mr. Roe-
buck) had given of the state of the country was
correct.. There might be no great prospeiity, but there
was no alarm, and there' woula hive been no difficulty in
raising the slim required by the Noble Lord. Now, at
that tune what was the language used by the Right
Lion. the Chancellor of the xchequer? After the
enormous sums of money which had been lately granted
to Ii elaiid, the Right Hon. Gentleman came down and
asked the House to grant a sum of 620,0001. fur the
purpose of assisting railways in Ireland. But let them
look at the language the Right Hon. -Gentleman! Mr.
Roebuck had opened the boAc, when he was inter-

rupted by
The SPEAKER, who intimated that the Hen.
Member could not quote from a speech made on the
debate on the present measure.
Mr. ROEBUCK did not wish to quote anything that
was not pertinent to the present question. and it he was
desirous of giving the words, it was only from the fear
that his memory might not serve to give the precise mean-
ing of the Right Hon. Gentleman, whose opinions he was
desirous of giving to the House, for to misrepresent him
formed no part of his iatentien. Now, he thought that
an argument might he used of this nature, and one which
was particularly applicable to the present question—
(Such was the import of the Right Hon. Gentleman's
expressions)—that, although the sum of four millions
only was demanded at present. yet eventually the sum of
16,000,000/. would be required, and that the plan would
impose upon the Government a, task which he, in his
character of Chancellor of the Exchequer, could not
undertake. The expressions of the Noble Lord at the
head of the Treasury were precisely to the same effect.
He said, further, that if the railroads were in such a
state of prosperity as the Noble Lord had asserted them
to be in that country—and he instanced the Great
Western Railway ..f Ireland—they did not need that as-
sistanciii for which he sought, and they should not
givelhe money. Both the Right Hon. Gentleman and
the Noble Lord went further than this, for they said
that if they went into the market to borrow the money,
they would go unfairly armed, and affirmed that even
if the plan was to be adopted it would not give that
amount of employment which the Noble Lord the Mem-
ber for Lynn affirmed that it would give. For this they I
cited the words of the Right Hoa. Bironat the Member
for Tainworth, and, if he recollected right, the Right
Hon. Baronet the late Secretary fer the Home Depart-
ment had also stated that such would be the case. They
grounded their objection chiefly on the extent of the
measure which the Noble Lord had brought forward,
but for his part, in his opinion, that was the best recom-
mendation of the plan. Ile did not say that it was a
wise plait ; but it was at least a bold and a comprehen-
sive plan—one calculated to give extensive employ-
ment to the poor population of Ireland. Since
th© Nob'e Lord's proposal was before the House,
change in a most important and vital particular was pro-
duced—some people contended—by the Government
themselves. At the time the Noble Lord made
his proposal there was no alarm in the money
market. It was only apprehended. But what
was the situation of the commercial interest
at the time this measure is brought forward? Was it not
notorious that the Noble Lord at the head of the Go•
vernment was daily in communication with the great
commercial interests of Liverpool, Glasgow, and Len•
don ? Had not every mean, been taken to restore con
fidence, but without success ? Were net the best possible
bills the mercantile world could produce of no avail
on account of enormous discounts charged for
cash ? Awl yet, in this deplorable state of
things the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of
the Exchequer was abeut te throw another anditional
burden upon the Batik, and by what arguments was
this proposal supported? Why, by precisely the same
as those oy which t:.e Noble Lord had successfully
resisted a similar proposal a few weeks ago.
There was nothing in • his measure to di,tineuish it from
the one introduced by the Noble Lord a short dine age,
except the greater danger which they would now incur
carrying out its principles ; and then, again, these
compani, s would be unable to bwrow money at a rate
oi' interest which they would be able to pay. The
Right lion. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer
opposed the measure of the N dile Lord, on the ground
that the Government should not become money-lenders.
But were not the circumstances now the same as they
were at the time that measure was introduced ? And
what a flaming sword was wielded agaiiat it by the
lion. Gentleman, who said that it would not employ the
weak and disabled, but the able- bodied. He said, "We
want relief for the poor and tho aged, far women and
children, as well as for the able-bodied." Those were
the parties, he said, whom they could not benefit by
such means as those which the Noble Lord sought. It
was also urged by everybody who spoke on the same side
as he (.11r. Roebuck) did, that the state of the country
at the :line could not have been assisted by such a pro-
position. The Government said they hid lett nothing
undone to provide employment for the indigent poor ;
but, entertaining that argument, how could they
now come forward with this extricrdinary
measure ? Was there ever so pitiful an attempt ?
He could not call it, an endeavour, for no phrase in the
English language could supple him with a word which
could express his feelings, without trespassing on the
courtesies of the House, and which would adequately
enable him to describe the plan of the Right
Honourable Gentleman The Governmi:nt propo,ed
to lend 620,000/. to Ireland, after they had ex-
ponied something like 10,000,0004 and when they.
hail already deranged, not only the social condition of
Ireland, but the social and monetary system of ;England,
by their unwise proceedings. But be assured the people
would not any linger suffer such proceedings. When they
saw hundreds of persons swept away, families destoyed,
situai ions well and honourablyfille d up atinthilated,and the
whole mercantile world in a commotion, and, in the
words of a French orator, with " hideous bankruptcy
knookink at their doors," were they to see the Chancellor
of the Exchequer come to the Heuse with a smiling face
again to demand money—money ?—( Hear.): It might be
pitiful sum compared with their previous lavish expen-
diture, but the people would not bear it. He appealed to
every gentleman in the House —if they wished
to consult consistency, which was not a matter of much
simu4oorrtatncieli,mitin his
sd seem, at the present period—to
present amendment. He would
ask the Hon. Men'bers who voted in the majority
against the Bill of the Noble Lord opposite to join him
in carrying a resolution—that the other orders of the
day be then read ; if they did so, and if they obtained a
majority, he thought they would hear no more
of tine scheme.--(Hear, hear.) The Chan-
cellor would get a very significant hint not
to proceed further with it.—(Hear. hear) He felt that
the of England would read a lesson to her Ma-
jesty's
aayn d afterw without hdoetit even Munster, ; they would look rather that
vreo
nui
ntr
appealctown,
schemes like thesperi
founded on no
time than
othrdanersenoyfththinegdal.seb.e
nowll' e,
to the country, placed upon the table of the House,
rather
move
oovoce occupy tthhceir
ottiimre
read.—(Hear, heir.)
Tne CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that he would not diseute the abstract right of the Hon.
and Leareee Gentleman to take the course which he.
hat! theaght proper to take upon the present
occasion, but • he believed it • to be an irregular
one, and one which would in future set a bad