The Sun.
London, England, 1841-08-25 00:00:00

EVENING SUN

land, comparatively not fertile, and which required more ex-
psnse in its preparation, would go out of cultivation, and net
the fine Lincolnshire or Northamptonshire grazing lands,
where his Noble Friend reared his beautiful short horns.—
( Hear, hear, and much laughter.) The poorer land would go
out of cultivation because the farmer could not obtain a remu-
nerating, price for his labour, and when his Noble Friend said
the farmers of that country could compete with the farmers of
the Continent, he entirely forgot the heavy burdens which
pressed upon the English farmer. His Noble Friend (Vis-
count Melbourne) had said that any man who proposed the re-
real of these laws must be need, and yet the Noble Earl to
wtiom he applied to move the address
.to the Crown must be
mad in his view, as he was for a total repeal of these laws. He
had a very great opinion of the Noble Earl's judgment in
most matters, but he was entirely wiiingeon the present occa-
eion.—( Hear, hear.) Unless they took off the great weight
of taxation unless they repealed the Max-tax and the many
other burdens that were borne by the land, they could not do
without protection. Unless that were done they would bring
ruin nn that great and intelligent class, the farmers of
England. To that class they all owed a deep
debt of gratitude for many years they had
devoted much of their capital and talent to improving the con-
dition of the land, and they were about to now turn round
©n them and say that they would allow the serfs of Poland to
compete with them.—( Hear, hear.) If such a measure was
passed, and if the landlord was an honest man, he would be
obliged to reduce his rents.—(Ministerial cheers.) If a Bill
of that sort was brought into the House, he (the Duke of
Richmond) would be the man to move that every tenant do
have the power of giving up his lease.—(Loud cheers.) But
they hail heard nothing of that from the free traders.—
( Irear, hear.) In the meantime what has the farmer to do,
after giving up his lease? Where was he to go to? They
tenth send him and the unfortunate labourers to the work-
lacuse. He felt strongly upon the question of the Corn-laws,
ond although it was stated there that night that the Noble
Lord who, it was supposed would come into office, would turn
round upon the farmers and refuse them protection— (Cheers
from the Ministerial benches)—but he, on the part of the landed
interest, would say, if they did so they would have them out of
office.—( Vehement cheering from both sides of the House. )
If they ea..-ne forward and offered an Bs. duty, he would tell
them that the same men who had brought them into power
would he the first to thrust them out.—( Cheers.) He had no
feeling, however, that they would do any such thing. They
knew too well the interests of the country to lend themselves
to any such measures. He thought the House should express
some opinion on the subject of Savings' Banks, to which his
Noble Priced had seferred. He felt the greatest regret that
the funds- of these valuable institutions should have been
. touched for the temporary convenience of the Government.
Yet at the same time the depositors in these banks might rest
assured that they were perfectly safe.—(Hear, hear) He
knew not:.,ing more injurious to the interests of the industrous
!li'at country than to throw the least suspicion upou
the solvency of these banks. He begged to thank the House
for th.., indulgence with which it had heard him.
`the Marquis of LANSDOWNE was axious to say a few
words before the question was put to the vote. He certainly
did hot think himself qualified to enter into a discusiion on 1
question purely agricultural, and which his Noble Friend near
him (Earl Spencer) was much better able to conduct. But
with regard to the allusion made by the Noble Duke, to a re-
mark of his Noble Friend, that any man who proposed a repeal
of the Corn-laws must be a madman, it' the Noble Duke meant
to make madness a consequence of any contemplated change
in the Corn-laWs, he feared there was scarcely a Noble Lord
who had taken part in the debate, except the Noble Duke him-
self, who aid not contemplate at some period or another a
eh mem in the Corn-laws.—( Hear, hear, and a laugh.) It
would appear then that they all had the prospect of that Bed-
lam before them, with the exception of the noble Duke, only
that there was some uncertainty as to the particular time.
- The Doke of RICHMOND explained. He had said
nothing about any body being mad, but had merely repeated
an observation of the Noble Viscount's.
The Marquis of LANDSDOWNE was glad the Noble
Duke did not ascribe entire alienation of mind to the possi-
bility of entertaining that question, with a view to an ultimate
change in the law. He was ready to state in answer to the
hint thrown out by the Noble Duke that there could be no
'doubt Ls to the security of one of the most valuable institutions
with which the country had ever been blessed, and which he
considered it the pride of his life to have been connected with.
The security of these Savings' Banks was perfect, and to it.
the faith of Parliament and the revenue of the country was
pfedged.—( Hear, hear.) The Government had done nothing
inconsistent with the security of these establishments.
However the minds of Noble Lords might have been alarmed,
these proceedings had created no alarm whatever in the minds
sef a very suspicions portion of the commnuity, the saving portion
of the middle classes.—( Hear, h •ar.) Now, with reference
to the speech of the Noble Duke. Although there were some
parts of it on which he should feel hi.. self obliged to comment,
there were other portions to which he had listened with great
p'easure, more especially to the tribute he had paid his Noble
Friend ( Viscount Melbourne) for the services he had ren-
tiered to the Sovereign, of his country.—( Hear, hear.) It was
little fir him, connected, as he was, politically, and by ties of
personal intimacy with his Noble Friend, to add his testimony
to that of the Noble Duke : and, whatever might be the result
of that night's deliberation, the recognition of these services
would go forth from that House stamped ,with the high name
and character of the Noble Duke. —(Cheers.) But the Noble
Duke had accompinie-.4 his tribute by a comment svhich
involved a censure not only upon his Noble Friend,
but also upon the Ministry who had been a
party to the language which had been put into her Majesty's
mouth at the close of the last session and the opening of the
present one. Now, he must say that in every Speech that had
been put into her Majesty's mouth in Parliament or elsewhere
it hail .been the object of her Majesty's Ministers studiously to
abstain from committing her Majesty to anything, in point of
o3inion, beyond that in which every Noble Lord concurred
that had spoken upon these questions, via., their importance,
and the necessity of inquiring into them —( Hear, hear.) In
the speech to which the Noble Duke alluded at the conclusion
of the last session, on referring to it he almost thought
then: were words in it which had escaped his recollection ; but
he fund nothing ha it relating to those important subjects but
these two opinions, which he would call on their Lord-hips
to say whether any of them were prepared to contradict. That
the trade and industry of the country were of paramount im-
p arta.nee, no one could doubt, and further, that her Ma-
,testy felt the greatest anxiety to provide for the exigencies of
Cie public service in a manner which might be least burthen-
swne to the community at large. Now that did not involve
an'o,:inioa as to the mode in which these exigencies should be
provided for. All it stated was, that Parliament was bound to
give the question its most anxious deliberation. The Noble
Duke expressed some dissatisfaction that these measures 'on
which he expressed no definitive opinion, had not been
preceded by some inquiry which would enable the
douse to form a correct opinion on the facts before they
invited Parliament to come to any decision. Why, they had
been recommended to their Lordships, not once or twice, in
t'se course of the last 15, cr 20, or 25 years, but they had been
the subject of consideration by Committee after Committee.
Sometimes they had had the agriculturists complaining of
'the Cont-laws, at other times they had, the manufacturers, and
altogetker there had been not less than five separate reports
laid before Parliament, to none of which the Noble Duke
had reverted. One of these reports was signed by Sir Ro-
bert Peel, Viscount Melbourne, Mr. Huskisson, and Mr.
Robinson.----(Loud cries of " Oh, oh," and a laugh.)
Re had thought •that one of the signatures was that of his
Noble Friend, the Earl of Ripon ; but after his reprobation of
the principle of a fixed 'duty that evening, he (Lord Lana-
- 44("ne) should hardly think thathe could have joined in recom-
wending a fixed duty in 1822.—(Cheers and laughter.) He
remembered a personage in a Greek tragedy, who was in-
tiodueed as having been watching ten years for the
asnal which was to announce the end of the siege
ant Troy ; but his Noble Friend had excelled this person,
or he had been waiting thirteen years, and had net seen the
mignal yet.—(Laughter.) The measure which they pro—
posed was one calculatod to produce a fixed supply and a fixed
price, which, after all, was the great desideratum of legisla-
tion, and the perfection of the law. Fluctuation was advan-
tagi was only to the ft audufent speculator, while it was ruinous
to the farmer and labourer. That was the conclusion to which
they were endeavoiring to bring the public mind of this
(country. With tie evidence before them—with the site-
:epos of former attempts to increase our commerce—with
the utter to lure of all the i rophecies as to the cense-
epee-flees of the removal of these reetrictions—these were the
egesunds on which her Majesty's Government had deter-
mined on proposing a fixed duty, involving as it would do
the: removal of restrictions on the increase of our commerce
with other countries, and ale, the removal of those restric-
tions in such a manner as should fmilitate the renewal of
• treaties with them. To get rid of such a system as that of
;averages was itself a great blessing. He had seen with satis-
;faction what was, if not what was contained in the
risendment, yet what was omitted—he had seen no
-point on which Noble Lords were content to pledge them-
selves. The Noble Duke (Wellington) had stated his a pinion
of the military expenses incurred, and it was a great satisfac-
tion to him that in the face of the most powerful opposition in
the course of four or five years no opportunity had been af-
forded their opponent of proving that the military honour of
:the country was tarnished.—(Cheers.) They were now about
-to assume the reins of office with a large majority, and
he begged them to remember that of those to
whom much was given much would be required.—( Hear. )
For his own part, he could only express the wish to see the
present, state of things brought to a conclusion as soon as pos-
sible ; and he indulged the hope that the Noble Lord opposite,
at no distant time, would be prepared to introduce measures of
liberality, and for the freedom of trade ; and he was sure he
aspoke not for himself alone, hut for every Noble Lord near
'him, than if he did so,he would have the support and assistanee,
.as far as it could be given, of every one of them, for the attain-
ment of their great object, the common benefit of the country.
The Earl of COVENTRY said he wished to say a few
words on this subject. He denied that the agricultural class
was discontented. On the contrary, they were all contented,
and wanted no alteration in any thing. He thought the
' country was in a safe state, and hoped to God that it would
soon be placed in the hands of the Duke of Wellington--
( Cheers and laughter. )
The Marquis of NORTHAMPTON could not agree to
-vote for a want of confidence, because he thought, in doing
sari, they would be voting in the dark. He should vote for the
-address, as proposed by the mover and seconder, although he
could not approve of the whole of the Speech, because he
thought it went too much into detail.
Lord BROUGHAM then rose to address their Lordships.
With the opinions he entertained upon the most important
topics in the Speech, he alluded to the conduct of the Govern-
ment in bringing forward the great subject of the Corn-laws,
the timber duties, and the sugar duties, with those opinions,
and aeter having so often defended them by argument, their
Lordships, he was sure, were fully aware that he should give
IF is vote fur the Address in the' frame in which it was intro-
- -fluc-11 by the Noble Viscount. It was unneces'ary fur him to
trespass upon their Lordships patience by arguing the ques-
tien, as his opinions were well known ; but tie could not give
his vote for the Aeress without guarding himself in several
important particulars, especially against the impression that
while he approved of the Address, that he approved in all
respects of the conduct of theQucen's Government, even with re-
spec, to this question. But first upon the question that had been
much debated that night—the Corn-laws. With respect to
the important speech delivered by his Noble Friend on the
--Iseeehes opposite. It really appeared to hire that his Nob e
Friend at the head of the Goverment gave ne answer to
, that speech, he seemed to consider notwithstanding the im-
pressh.,n it made on their Lordsh ps, that 1:e had a right to
' call on the house to disregard it. Now he (Lord Brougham)
differed entirely with his Noble Friend at the head of the
Ocverement, and he hoped and trusted that when they sat
together on the opposite bencees' and if any attack should be
made on the constitution, which he hoped he should not live
to see, lie should hear a more workman-like, and a more
eTeecious answer to the proposition from his Noble Friend
at the head of the Goverment. In the present instance it
was not from want of ability, or a bad cause, but his Noble
Friend seemed to think that it was not worth the trouble,
that there was an end of the corn question, that the business'
was all over, although he and his colleagues had been holding
themselves up as martyrs to the proposition. The carelessness
of bis Noble Friend at the head of the Government, was
ansply supplied by his Noble Friend the President of the oun-
Irs; 'tee there was one thing which he had 'left unanswered,
to the Corn-laws, which he ( Lord Brougham)
-4'=•:l".!4teM,Zf, f great importance and he should therefore so-
. nstint ewe a. mien of their Lordships to it. He alluded to the •
enoresiespfe+aling with the
wasa which
ofThiehewthwoole gist
f
fgathvee
queAoli I,f.the Corn-law,verags.
the hestepresitect of a fixed an:l not a flnetuating price, and the
Noble-Pqfe,epposite, who always saw thing!,
in a right light, i