The Sun.
London, England, 1847-01-23 00:00:00

only to recimsider them again in the month of September.
He would ask them what would happen in the mean time?
They would have a great deal of speculation in the people's
mind. Persons would calculate as to whether Government
would be strong enough to carry their measures, and they
would have a great deal of improper speculation, founded
on current rumours, and information probably alledged
to be received from some individual apparently connected
with the Government. He did not believe that there
was any one who would have the hardihood to embark his ca-
pital in the manufacture of beer, or the importation of rum.
He could not conceive that any one would dare to venture
their capital on the assuranc of a law which would last at
farthest only five or six months. He trusted that the Govern-
ment would take an enlarged view of the subject. It was a
question for the House to consider whether the colonies were
or were not entitled to share in the advantages afforded by the
Right Hon. Gentleman opposite. After the pledge given
during the last session— a pledge induced by the competition
to which their produce was subjected, as aga.nst the
produce of other countries—he thought that the state •
ment made by the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite
had been throughout so clear, comprehensive, and so ably ex-
pressed, that he (Mr. Goulburn) should only weaken the effect
of that statement if he were to attempt to go through the argu-
ments. He agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman, that as
regarded the admission of sugar into the distilleries of
this country, an extravagant view was taken by the
colonies of the benefits to be derived. He entirely concurred
with the view that was taken by the Right Hon. Gentleman,
that they should protect the revenue, not only because that was
essential to the growers of sugar themselves, but to the country
generally. With tole opinion, he thought the introduction of
molasses into distilleries and breweries would occasion a loss to
the revenue, which fully juseified the Government in the course
they were pursuing. At the same time, he thought that the
colonies which manufactured it had a stronger claim to the
remission of the duty on another article. The Right Hon.
Gentleman had just stated that sugar would not generally be
introduced into distilleries unless there should be con-
currently a high price for malt, and a low price for
sugar. He thought that this calculation could not
be overthrown. But experience, also confirmed this
view of the question. Experience had shown that the in-
troduction of sugar had not excluded barley or malt. It was
well known that private brewers employed nearly three-eighths
of all the malt in this country. Private breweries were not
now confined to the houses of gentlemen, but they were con-
ducted by persons who employed large bodies of men, and who-
reserved a portion of their wages in return for this beer sup.
plied to them. These persons found it an object to brew for
the smallest amount, and yet in no instance did he re-
member that sugar had been employed. He re-
collected Mr. Calvert was being examined before a
committee of the House of Commons, and he stated
that it was not admissable to use sugar in distillation.
even if malt was 775. a quarter. He (Mr. Goulbourn) was
not prepared that evening to enter fully into the question of
the remission of duty on rum, because he had not expected
that the Right Hon. Gentleman would have brought forward
the subject, he thought rather that he would have confined
himself to the subjects Deferred to in the Queen's Speech, and
he was not prepared, therefore, with documents to enter into
the particular amounts of differential duties which he proposed
to lay on the produce of the colonies as compared with spirits
distilled in Scotland and Ireland. He was aware that
there was nothing more difficult than to ascertain
what inconveniences one branch of trade might
sustain by the application of certain measurer to the other,
and to reduce that inconvenience to a pecuniary value was, of
all other things, the most difficult. He would therefore con-
tent himself with merely giving his assent to the proposal of
the Right Hon. Gentleman on the present occasion, and be
would reserve to himself the right of expressing his opinion
more fully when the question was brought before them in an
after stage. Generally, however, he might say that in this
case he fully believed that the Right Hon. Gentleman had
taken a course which was just as regarded the colonies, and

politic as regarded the interests of this country, because it
fulfilled a pledge given in the last session of Parliament.
Mr. WODEHOUSE begged to remind the Noble Lord
that all these measures had tended to put off to an indefinite
period the consideration of the repeal of the malt •tax, and
therefore the House must be reminded that the situation of
the growers of barley was most materially altered by the mea-
sures of last year. It was impossible to forget the great dif-
ference that was now attempted to he made as regarded the
admission of foreign produce, and Government might be pre-
pared for remonstrances and resistances if a measure of
this kind were to be brought forward, or if they attempted to
extricate themselves from the difficulties of this period by
making this a permanent measure.
Mr. HUME wished to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer
whether he would lay before the House, in an intelligible form,
the reasons which prevented him from giving the pubic a
great boon by the admission of molasses? It appeared at all
events, that the remission of duty on sugar would be inefficient
to reduce the cost of brewing, and that the only article which
would have that effect would be molasses, and that was shut
up. He ( Mr. Hume) desired to have some reasons shown,
why they should not get rid of the Excise altogether, if they
s'ood in the way of a good to the people. Let the Right lion.
Gentleman give them something in a tangible form to con-
sider, and they would then be enabled to say whether his
reasons did crdid not justify him in the course he was pursuing.
Mr. FINCH said that the gentlemen of the county he be-
longed to, and he believed English gentlemen generally, were
incapable of forming a sound judgment on this question, and
he considered it was rather taking the House by surprise to
bring forward this question, and to ask Hon. Members to con-
firm this measure, before giving them an opportunity of form-
ing an opinion upon it. If this were the case with English
Members, it was even more difficult for Irish and Scotch Alm-

bers to agree to a measure classing the duties on rum with the
duties on British spirits, when they were not aware that the sub-
ject was to be brought forward that evening with respect to
the colonial interest, he felt that they ought to be promoted in
any way. He felt that those interests had been shamefully
sacrificed. He felt that no part of the British dominions was
so negleeted as the colonies. But it struck him that this was
no question merely of the English colonies, for it interested all
foreign countries and colonies. lie had read, not long before,
in a paper, of the arrival of three ships with Brazilian sugar,
and it stated that turther arrivals were expected, and the
article concluded by expressing a hope that Brazilian sugar
would be extensively used in the distilleries. He would not say
that the agriculturalists of this country intended to oppose the
measure. All he said was, that they ought to have had some
time to consider it.
Mr. D. BARCLAY said that he would not dwell on that

part of the question which related to the distress in Ireland.
He deeply sympathised in that • distress, but his object
in rising was rather on behalf of the colonies. A

pledge had been given by the Right Hon. Gentleman
at the close of the last session of Parliament, and
it was but just that that promise should he redeemed.
lie did think that Parliament, at the conclusion of last session,
had given a pledge that when the protection upon the produce
of the West Indian Colooies was abolished, and the protection
which they had hitherto enjoyed was also withdrawn, that no
restriction should be placed on their commerce with this
country. He thought that this was simply a mere matter of
right and justice, and one which ought not to enter into any
political considecation. The imposition of a duty on sugar in
Jamaica, was just the same thing as the levying of a duty in
England. What would the Noble Lord opposite say if it were
to be seriously praposed to levy a duty on wheat in England.
It was neither just nor right that the restriction on the com•
coerce of the West Indies should remain when the protection
on their produce was removed. His Right Hon. Friend only
opposed the measure because it was to be only of temporary
effect, but he thought that the colonies ought not to be thus
subjected to such a capricious system of legislation. Their
great distance from the mother country will preient the mea-
sure, if it were of a temporary character only, from being of
any use to the colonies; and he did not see why it should be
limited to the first of September, He did hope that the dis-
tress in Ireland would not prevent the Noble Lord from doing
justice to the West Indian colonies.

Lord G. BENTINCK said the Right Hon. Gentleman
,the Chancellor of the Exchequer), in the introduction of these
measures, had expressly sated that the ground fur entering
upon them was the distress that pervaded Ireland, and when he
and the friends who acted with him, had agreed to assent to
their passing, it was agreed, that his Noble Friend at the head
of the Government should first settle the affairs of Ireland.—
(Laughter.) He had understood from the proposition of his
Noble Friend that this was to be the foundation of
their present proceedings, and he trusted that this nit-
cussion respecting the potato crop would not cause
the calamity that had befallen Ireland to be forgotten ;
but that the introduction of sugar into breweries and distilleries
would not prevent the case of Ireland fri.m being
full)
con-
sidered. From the speech of the Hon. Member for Cork, he
was lead to believe that this measure of the admission of sugar
into distilleaies, is not to be taken simply as a remedial measure
for Ireland. His Right Hon. Friend had, in some respects,
misrepresented, though most unintentionally, he was certain,
the observations of his Friend behind him ; and when his _Noble
Friend, at the head of the Treasury, made his statement on
Monday next, respecting the affairs of Ireland, he trusted that
the circumstances would be made fully anarent, and the mode
of relief that be intended to adopt. He could assure
the Gentleman who had just sat down, that the
Mernbes p;.; his side of the House were as deeply
interested in the conservation of the colonies as he was himself.
Ile begged to assure him that he and his friends acted in no
spirit at 112gtility to the West Indian interests. Did his Right
Hop. Friend tj,e Chancellor of the Exchequer, remember the
evidence of gr. Calprt, the brewer, before a Committee of
that House ? if he did, he shoi4ld also recollect that since
that time, that the gust, of malt had risen freM 755. to 80s.,
whereas the duty on sugar had been reduced from 17s, to 14s,
per cwt. ; and the duty on slave grown sugars had been reduced
from 635. to 21s. The Hon. Gentleman asked how he would
like to have a tax imposed on corn; why, there was a tax of
4,500,0001. on agricultural produce.—(Hear.) Why, was not
malt a portion of agricultural produce? And what would the
Hon. Member for Manchester, who had formerly been a
Member for a county have thought if it had been at that
time proposed to levy a tax on agricultural produce ? and how
w 0414 hp nave conceded that which affected prices? When
he asked this question, it shad be recollected that, in fact, the
introduction of sugar into breweries was rigitier more nor less
than to occasion barley to be displaced. He tilooght ip Would
have been better to have reduced the price of spirits. He found
from the returns, that since the year 'WA the maximum of the
consumption of spirits had been doubled.
Lord J. RUSAIELL was understood to interpose, and to re-
mind ,‘
the Noble Lord of the increase of the population.
Lord G. BENTINCK contii.ued.--Why, the consumption
had increased from 13,000,000 to 20000,000 gallons N. year, ,
and if any Gentleman would only walk down Oxtord-street or
Holborn, arid view the number of the gin palaces which were
to be found there, he would quite agree with him that the re.
duction of the duty had doubled the consumption. Now what
was the with regard to the consumption of beer ?It had
not increasee2tl peF cppt„ although the population had in-
creased far more than that. Aiid that evidently showed that
the consumption of spirits had increased .at Greater
ratio than the consumption of beer. His Right
Honourable Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer
seemed to desire that rum hould take the place of
patine Scotiand. He hardly expected that re,