The Sun.
London, England, 1841-03-03 00:00:00

nooth,—but he pledged himself to prove, on a future oc-
casion, that they inculcated, in almost every page, all I
the intolerance and disloyalty which was evinced by the
fey parai.Jrnplis read by his Hon. Friend the Member fir
Kilmarnock. The Hon. Gentleman who last addressed
the House had candidly stated that he bad never looked
at hose books, and that he did not even know their names
Yet it could not be said that the motion then before the
House bad taken them by surprise. For five successive
years exactly the 83010 statements had been made ; for
three or four years the same divisions had been taken;
and Hon. Gentlemen could not therefore be unaware of
the nature of this motion. He would now give notice
that upon the second reading of the Bill he would call
upon the Hon. Gentlemen opposite to deny if they could,
or to ex; lain away if they
.could, the distinct palpable
meaning of those words which had been read by his
Hon. Fs lend who opened that debate, and of others con-
tained in those works to which he had referred. He
should then show that no man reading those works could
doubt palpable meaning, especially
as dde thats setheir
to the unlearcei, war, first, to
arto
youth
hn a anndd
inculcate the absence of allegiance to the Crown,
and next, to inculcete that ostaa need not be kept
with het etics, if the interests of the Roman
Cati.olie Church repaired that they should be broken,
and he thought that no conscientious Roman Catholic
shculd suffer such allegations tole° iniansee el or unin-
qua•ed let if he was convinced that they could be dis-
proved. —( IL as, hear.)
Mr. O'CONNELL rose and said, Sir, I be 'in first by
saying that I believe all that is taught at Mair.ootli, and
text, tisat I nil check, from re,peet, to the Home, my
contempt fur some assertions that I haveiteard made te-
( Hear ) I have heard it said tint the charges
which have been made to-night have been made frequently
in 0 is Huse before. I have been longer in the House
than the Hon. Member, and I Inver heard anything
ut-
tered in this House so indecent as the assertions r have
heard made tc-night. He says they have been made else-
where. Oa, I admit that they have been made elsewhere.
He says they have not been denies. Oh, Sir, they
have been denied as often as they have been made,
and the it falsity has been demonstrated to such a pi cit
that I am asteasiilied that a:sy man's prejudices, orhis inte-
rest, or Lie prejudieesi interest, could induce him to repeat
assertions which have been so indignantly denied. He has
talked if allegiance heieg frittered away by our religion.
I will pin him to that—l will prove to him, wiseaever the
subject comes forward, that there never was a more un-
founded assertion, that bigotry never instAated
nor did malice ever
.utter a calumny more untrue. Ile
has, in talking to gectlemei, who are his equals at least,
presumed to say that they disregard their oaths. I will
cot trust myself to say how that may be answere I. If i:
was answered out of this House I should say it was as false
as Ee'l. He never can prove it—he has proved nothing.
He has quote] the r:bellry which has' been uttered
at fanatic meetings, -and he has called for an inves-
tigation of these cheeps without attempting to gave
page or chapter. If he had done so I have that
by me by means of which I could in three minutes have
refuted his statements. The Hon. Member who spoke
last stated that the lion. Gentleman quoted books. Ali I
lie did en; he quoted two passages by page;; I hase
them before me, and it it were not that I have something
more important to do at present than to go through these pas-
saces I would show that there is not a single word la them
which a Christian should be in the slightest degree
aslia ned of er shrink from avowing, or that a Christian
should not utter; and that there is not in the passages
quoted a single word which is ineensisteat with the charity
which belongs to asy c,eed.—( Hear, hear.) Ho has
quoted from 1)r. Sltvio, and a number of other works, but
he did not give me tae page. I called t) him fir the
page. He either 1:al it or he had it not. If he
bad it and concealed it I leave him to the judgment
of the House. If he had it not, I ask how
could he presume to come down to this house and writs
out the pessige and nut give the page in which that pea-
sage was to be found ? I with tell him why be did it. It
aas because he knew that if he gavT the pate he w:auld
be canna iicted in a moreest, and confuted, too, wit's' ease.
The lien. Gentlemen is, in his general conduct, a gen-
tleman of palfect candour. lie avows what he thinks, and
follows it out to all its consequences. Sir, I would wish
is imitate him--it is my ambition to be like him is that
res; Oct. I am a Catholic as be is a Protestant, and I
wish oily to express my real feelings upon this subject.
He has given his opinion upon every occasion hitherto
without the least discourtesy. I always respected him f .r
it ; but I cannot say that I satisfied with his answer
evening.—( Hear, hear.) Sir, the Noble Lord,who has
spoken of the Puseyite d. ca-ines, did not attri-
bute those doctrines to the University of Ox-
ford ; but he did impute them to several cler-
gymen of the Establishment who had been educate!
there ; he did impute them to the professors at Oxford,
and, I believe, he imputed then to a Bishcp educated
there; and he said that, contrary to the oaths which they
had taken, they were preaching Popery through the me-
dium of Protestantism. 131 -ssed be God, their deco lees
are very near those of the Roman Catholic Church. I am
very glad that they base commenced this charge; I e-
joiee io the triumph which it gives to our religion. The
Hots. Gentlemarecommeaced his speccla with a declaration
that be would not willit gly say one word to wound the
fee lines of those who differed from i r rc li;ion. Such
was the commencement if his speech, and yet in that
speech he introduce! one of the most %ialent tirades cf the
most abominable calumnies that e ere eves heard.—( Hear,
hear.) Now, if instead of being a sincere gentle-
man he had been an arrant hypocrite, woul i he
not have followed the same course, b ginning with
professions of liberality, and ending with vituperation
and calumny ? That is a course which is altogether sirs
beconaig in him. lie quoted authorities, and he r.ferred
to the Cisalpine and ultra-Montanist doctrines; and cer-
tainly he has got the most left-handed views of those doc-
trines that I over heard.—( H ar, hear.) If an Catholic
clergyman had beard his statnnent of those cloctsine, he
inust beye been exceedingly ensured. The quarrel in that
case was an invasion by the State upon the Church, and
he Ins quoted a running commentary upon the violence of
many cf the Fiends is that quarrel. 17.:F, Sir, he is Ore
right—the Parliaments were opposed to the liberty of the
Church. And what was the result? The French Revo-
lution, with all its horn re, the infidelity which brought on
the Revolution, and the trampling upon nil institutions
wt ich accompanied that Revolution. But I may remark,
in passing, that there seems to be no g eat syrnFatily on
same pob to between himself and
the Hon. Gentle nan who
seconded his motion. If I mistake not the Hon. Geed-
man is a No" n-intrusionist whilst the Hon. Gentleman who
seconded his motion is an liitrusionist. I saw the other
day a speech of the Hon. Gentleman the Member for
Kilmarnock, in which he disclaimed any connection with
that party who thought that tee State should presume to
interfere with the Church. Do she Honourable Gentle-
men agree on that point? No they entirely diTer. The
Nen-irstrusionist sets the State at defiance, deriving his
views from Jobn Knox ; the other is for giving the state
control over tl.e Church. I tell the Hon. Gentleman
that I don't think the qiitirrel of the Scotch is likely soon
to termieat2—it seems to be at pretty a quarrel as any per-
sun iidinical to tl e peace IT that Church could deli. e. I
beg to tell di ri also that tie ult a-Montaue deetilue.
es far as we aee concerre.d, is now at sin end ia all
Catholic countries. Let him go into any State cf Europe
and show me a state is which C.uholiei y is not extend-
inr. Li t him go through the vvoill and show me a state in
which Piotoq setism is extending. I
sin sorry to make
there remarks, but I i,ava been forced into a polemic's]
discussion, and I slsould be ashamed were I cot orepared
to giy toe reach for the hope that is in me. He talked
f Bulls which were required to be published in tle
addresses to the Cr‘tholic Bishops. We struggle] -f
emareedation—it was cifeied to us if we gave up th 3 ap-
eoi.,tme .t < f our Bishops. Wo flung cuaecipa on to the
%Lids, rEther than our Church should bow her head to
any Church whatever, or have her ta-nisiel by arsy adul-
terous connection with authority. We have nit
triumphed the le-.a. The lion. Member talks of the dif-
ference between the Irish priests educated in France lied
those educated et Maynoota.—( Hear, hear, hear.) he
quotes Inglis; as an authority the writer, not the
Member.—(A laugh.) The House will see at once what
discri nination the Hon. Member possesses., when he tells
them that Inglis wrote in 1832, and that there had been
no education cf Irish priests is France since 1792. Li
that year the Fs mach Colleges were suppressed, and no
man was afterwards allowed to go to France to be cdu
rated. I cell leave the House to say how many of those
who were educated before 1792 are how alive. It is
manifest that the priests educated before that pc:mind
were not, as a body, living in 1832. I give the
Honourable Gentleman credit for not discerning fact
from falsehood—truth from error. lie is under a happy
kind of delusi in on this sniajsce The lien. Gentleman
has alluded to Lord Castle! e gh as being a great thee-
logiao ; that is a Tsality for selnch I never before had
given him credit. He has also fef:rred to Emmett, and
he has read part of Emmett's evidence before the Coe,-
mitts e °film House of Lorelsweluan he-acknowledged Lim •
self a traitor, and consented to be examined. Let me not be
supposed to speak slightingly of Emmett. He was ati
accomplished gentlemen; he was a conscientious gen-
tleman ; he was a man adorned with all the virtues of pri-
vate life ; he was rising exceedingly fast in his profession,
and was learned in every science ; he was a rigid
, PreB4..
tcrian ; he ell's:irked in the schemes of the de rearm Rye.
lution, a cause unworthy of his talents and se tucs ; he was
one of the United I id; Execteive Directory; when be
was captured he gave ths.t evidence. But what authority =
he for Catholics? He had no connection with the Cathodes.
In thet insurrection there was scarcely one Catholic gen-
tleman implicated. Almost every gentleman executed was
either a Protestant or a Presbyterian. I du not
remember one Catholic who was executed for taking pat t .
it, though I remember many Protestants and Presb) t.e-
riane. He has, indeed, made a long dissertation on the 1:..-
timidaion used by the priests, and ae has ventured t
House to say that he can prove to demonstration that suety
intimidation is in force. Oh ! Sir, the facility with which
Honourable Gentlemen can make assertions they have no
means of proving I Doss he know that there has
been no less than thirteen Committees before every
one of improperly
by electors were influenced mproperl)
by the intimidation of the priests ? In six out of these
Committees, the popular Members were unseated
,but not
in t
in one of them was there an attempt made to
implore prove
inti-
midation or misconduct on the pat t of the priests. :Slot
in one of them was the charge which be makes established._ore the
An opportunity for proof was offered;
and I i
Howe only to remember that that opportunity of support-
ing the statement on oath was neglected, and flinched
from by those who continued to repeat the calumny.
To be sure these priests have taken a part, they have
spoken in disparagement cf bribery and of perjury ; but
I deny that they have done aught that is unworthy of their
sacred office. Mr. Singleton he mention.. Was Mr.
Singleton ever within the- walls of a Catholic Chapel ?
Was he ever within the precincts of a Catholic altar ?
I did before
imagine I need
Such men speak what they hive heard, and what they
would have others believe • but thrctighout the whole
of that evidence there is but ono witness who speaks
of being present, and as we hive bad a discussion about
him
treat that calumny upon the priesthood with contempt.
,S notir,t now et
that
tErxeceteer Hallhis statements.
waswhich alone such low, filthy, loathsome, falsehoods against
the Catholic clergy could be uttered.—(Cheery.)
sements, Butthe place in

thought that the utterance of these mean calumnies would '
be confined to Exeter Hall. Is that, Sir, to be- t-aes-
planted into thie House? Are we t r hove Exeter H I
here? Tao speee'n of the Horeerreine (3 2 1 tlnnen
been ca'led an able speech ; Sir, I soy that it
,e, a-
a slanderous and calumnious speecb.—( Loud cheers.)
He brought forward charges against us, but be took espe-
cial care not to enable me to contradict him, and would
not give me the page from which he quoted, after I had
asked him. I repudiate these doeteines, every one 0:
them.—(C leers.) They have Leer) repeatedly repeated
and reput•iateti. —( Hear, bear,) My i ternal salvation de-
pends on my sincerity. I speak in the presence of a God.
who will judge me; and I cannot aff ad to annihilate N
single portion of the comfort, consolation, and hope, that
is in me.__( Cheer=.) And who is it that utters those
calumnies against my religion? A disciple of Jobi:
Knox. If the Hon. Member for Newark (Mr. Glad-
clone) vas here, he would not allow the Church or
:he Honourable Ye nber (Mr. Colquhon) to be a Church
et all. —( Loud leugleer.) Is there any ordination in his
Church? The Hon. Member for Newark will nr t allow
it. And who was the fotioder of his Church ? Hag the Hen.
Gemlereem (M-. Cc.lqulioua) read Mr. Tytler's work
respectirg Queen Erizebeth, and hie charges against John
Knox ? Dees be know that Tytler proves him to have
been ae accessory before the fact to two murders? Hes
he read the works of John Knox himself ? And does lie
know that. John Knox says that faith is not to be kei t with
Catholics ? We have ever disclaimed such doctrines., anti
I defy him to prove that Catholics eve: held the
Chi eee ) Faith is to be kept with every body, and that
man, let him call himself what he may, breaks the law of
God eh) N i ,letes Nth with any Iranian being.—(Cheers.)
John Knox argues distinctly that faith ought not to be
keet with heretcs, and he kept none, for having obtained
trewer by mean?. of Cathoies, his first act was to abuse it
by procuring laws to be enacted against Papists. Talk of
allegiance! Had the disc.ple of John Knox never heard
of his " Blast agsiest the monstrous regiment of women ?"
Di I he not picach up rebellion, and condemn sovereign
authority ? I have been unwillingly for ced into this polemical
discussion. My religion has been a'.tacked, and it is my pride
and my duty to defend it. 4is the ancient religion of this
land— it is the religion of Alfred and of Edward, of Feeelon
and of Sir Thos. More. It is a religion which existed curing
:he le. seeufon of the early Christians, and has survived
lie flames and wild beasts of the Roman Amphithe.tce,
a-id it will ex•st when some traveller from New Zealand
shall sketch the ruins of St. Paul's from the last arch of
L :neon Bridge. As I sa;d, I did not provoke this discus.
sion ; but I have other topics. Can anything exceed the
bigotry of the petitions which hare been presented ? Do
they net breathe all the rancour of the early Reformation,
as it is called ? And was not that rancour exhibited by
the Gentleman who gloated over the bigotry of those
petitions? "It was time," said the Hon. Member, "that
the House shod I respond to the sentiments that had so
long existed abroad." I know there are millions in this
country who scorn such scntimente.—(Cheers. ) He
talked cf a re3ponse in this House, and I say Ho-
nourable Gentleman on the other side cheer the most
:malignant and unfound° I of his assertions. Blessed
be God, the people of Ireland know that bigotry
so foaerieg and boding ever, never polluted this house
before. I wish I could prophesy it never would again. It
shall not do so with impunity. Talk of the people of
I, eland ! Do not judge of them as they are cAumnitted,
and their rag ion perverted in this II ease. Has not tl:e
Noble Lord given you their character ? Are not our
women among the purest—are not our men among
the most temperate ?—(Leud cheering.) Is not
their religious feeling the strongest ? The Hon. Gen-
, ilernan tells me he has he-n in Ireland. 11's visit was
not one of mercy and charity, but to discoter what he
could blame. —( Hear, Lear.) In Ws own evidence there
is no mirk of candour, or I would read it for him. He
has been there ; and dots he know any people on the face
of the each so many of ashoin a-c commuiricaete every
Seeley in the yea..? The ;Alter rails are thronged
a ith them, and let Honourable_ Gentlemen remem-
ber hew they regard the solemn mystery there consum-
mated, and tell me where, on the face of the care!,
they find a people with so much zeal for their religion,
sane so much practical piety a; the poor people of Iren
hind.— (H7an hear.) True, they have their errors,—re-
venge is perpetrated among then, and under its influence
many are scattered al read and meet with untimely de.ths;
vengeance has treken down the restraints- of religion
aid the feelings of humanity; but look at the country,
and contrast it tail your own, or with Scotland, and you
will find crimes infinitely less in proportion and atrocity.
No hoir:ble murde-s are committed there, from the
base motive of acquilieg a little property.—( Hear, hear.)
I am proud of being the representative of such a
people. They are a religious arid a moral people, and
true religion and morals is still spreading through the
!awl. I hold in my hand a document from which I will
read to you what the state of the population ie. You
talk ef Protestant Ulster. There are 976,088 Protes-
tants of every description in Ulster, but there are
1,592,828 Catholics, giving us a majority of 116,740.
In Leinster our majority is 1,334,014. In Munster it is
1,975,964, and in Connaught 1,166,280, deducting only
57,750 Protestant,. Is it then in this House that the cry
of bigotry is rai,ed and propagated against that country ?
It is not wise—it is not prudent—above all, it
is hot Christian.—( Heir, arid cheery.) Would to God
an end were put to these polemic:el discussions; and they
would be put an end to if tee Hon. Member would mind
his own religion more and that of ethers less. Let him
study Presbyterianism, let bin steady the principles of the
English Church—it is said he communicates with it. I
hope it is a calumny es he is a Pies` e i in. I conjure
him, the,eroie. to look at his own re' and not at the
titig
religion of others—of others who. are r o more than him-
se t tri.t2d ui.h any ore doctrit:e inconsistent with the
purest morality or the precepts of the Divine lair, either
' capeised or impllel, and whose ancestors had the courage
to sacrifice the last drop of their blood rather than ahae-
don by deed, or word, er insinuation,' one inrticle of
their faith.--.(Loud cheers.) I beg leave, Sir, to support
the Hon Meret.er is asking leave to bring in his Bill, but
I believe he will net or bring it in.-- ( Hear, hear, and
aughter.)

Mr. e:ergeant JACKSON he,gan by eulogising the
character of the Het. Member for Ki:marnock, that,
whom, he said, there was no roan in this country teller
possessed mere moral and religious feeling. Was this
question to be met by an attack on such a man, or by an
attack on John Knox ? His Hon. Friend's statements
had helm denied, but be ( Mr. Sergeant Jackson) was
ready to prove, and to give chapter and verse for their.
The Him. and Lear-eel Gentleman ( Mr. O'Connell)
had misrepreseetud, R 9 was his custom, what had fallen
from his Hen. Friend, who had not stated that he quoted
from Mr. M•Nevin before the House of Lords, but from
the work published by Mr. M`Nevin himself. Mr.
M'Nevin was a member of the Roman Catholic Conarnit-
tr for establishing a Roman Catholic College in Ire-
land— a feviurite project at treat time. What he ha'
written, and what had been quoted by his Hon. F iend,
was as folorvs :—" The Education Committee for the
united education of Roman Catholics and Protestants to
be dcpendent on the peoele for support, and under the
joint control of the clergy and tee laity. But the clergy-
men determined to have the sole control, and procui ed the
assent of the Crown by addresses against Defenderi4re."
That wat the ttatement of his Hoe. and Learned Friend.
The lion. arid Learned Gere'ernan the Member fir Dub-
lin stated tl at the conduct of his lion. Friend was inde-
cent in the higl,est degree. What was the facts of this
cas'..? 'I his College was e-eablished in Ir. land for th,,
purpose of promulgating sound moral principles. u h
was the intention of the Legislature ; but, as his Hen.
Friend had said, " SV43 that the result ?" He said no,
!au ...e he found books containing objectionable metter
u-,ed in the course of e lueerion. lie could refer to them.
The Commissioners in I 534-5 applied to the Principal of the
College of Maynooth to be furnished with a list of the boils
uscu by the students, and a return was made which might
be found at page II of their Report. In it he found the
names of all the books tile students were required to pur-
chaee aid also a list of those recommended to their use by
the Prefessors. Among them would he found all those
from which these objectionable passages had been quoted.
It was a question whether the Roman Catholics believed
these allege He ( Mr. Sergeant Jackson) thought they
did not beli ve them. He beioved no educated Catholic
in that House or out of it be1.e...el them, and that if they
eery a V eof the use of such books by the students, they
would denounce it. He agreed with what had been said by
tue Noble Secretary for Ireland as to the religious charac-
ter of the Irish people. He (Mr. SergeantJaekson)believed
there was not a more pious and singularly religious
people upon earth than the poor Roman Ca holic popu-
-1 e LAI of Ireland. —( Hear, hear.) Could anything, there-
fore, be cone, ived mere cruel than t allow those who
were to be their teachers to'be instructed in such books?
•
—( Hear, hear.) He said it would be a great wickedness
in that Assembly if ti is fact were proved to their satii-
fac!ion if they continued their support to an institution in
which such alsomiaations were tolerated and promulgated.
['trey had been told no references had been made, and
therefore, though he was sorry to weary the House, he
would give one or two :—ln Bailey's Modern Theo
logy on the subject of theft, chapter 7, page
232, was as follows : " How greet may he
the quantity of thirgs ',Olen in order to constitute the theft
a moral tin ?" And the answer was, that the question was
not easily determined, and that the offence was less with re-
spect to a rich man than a poor one, who could
lass afford the loss. Then " Dens' Theology" eistin-
guished four classes of men. First, the illustrious,
or those who lived in splendour; 2dly, those who lived on
their own estates, and in competence ; 3dly, artificers and
those who supported themselves by their own labour;
and, 4thly, the poor who supported themselves by beg-
ging?; and it was clearly laid down, that, in order that
theft should constitute a moral sin, from the first rank
fifty or sixty pence were suffiti.nt; from the second rank,
forty pence; from the third rank, twenty or thirty pence ;
and from the fourth rank, four-pence, or even a penny,
if they had nothing else to live by than begging.
Such was the scale given to regulate what amount of
theft was required to constitute mortal sin. It was also
alleged in the same work that a woman might steal from
her husband, if it were for the support of her children,
an Ito keep them from want. Such were the morals in-
culcated in a seminary established for the education of the
Roman. Catholic clergy and laity. Again, on the sub-
ject of oaths, i,. was held that a man might vlolsto an
oath under certain circumstances, and on the express order
of his superior, and it would be remembered that all the
monastic orders in Ireland, the Dominican?, the Fransis-
cans, the Augustins, and the Jesuits, bad their heads or
superiors resident at Rome, and yet these men were to be
allowed at too dictum of their superiors to violate any
oath they had taken.—(Mr.
,Langdale--" No, no—it is
not so.") It was so stated, however, in the book, unless
his understanding was very obtuse. He should be glad
to hear some explanation of it. He should not occupy the
time of the House by giving other quotations from the
wt rk to show that that as as the doctrine held with respect
to oaths, but he could an hundred other instances. Ho
bad been induced to refer to it, in consequence of the
challenge thrown out on the other side, that there was no I
ground for the statements of his Hon. Friend. The
Noble Lord said, of the works read in the College of
Maynooth, many taught the Roman Catholic doctrine
that that House had no right to quarrel with
theta..—(Cries of " Hear, hear,") Now these atrociotts

doctrines which had been referred to in the course of the
debate, bad been condemned end censured, and denied both
in and out of the House, and it was ssil that they te; ere
ineo ly a part Leo? scriee of ealuo ' Le! ;
heaped upon the Roman Catholic body. The boob wee e
now set forth—their names end titles were give:-, and if
these doctrines were reptejiated and scouted by the
Catholic body (and he sincerely- believed they belonged
to no religion), why not have them erased from the list
of books which were presented fir the instruction ef the
Roman Catholic laity and clergy ? tic thought the House
owed a deep debt of gratitude to his Hon. Friend for.
having brought the subject before the House, and it was
scarce just or equitable to heap odium and abuse upon '
him for doing so, when the quotations he had made fully
bore out his statements. —( Hear, hear.) There was one
thing he was delighted to hear from the Noble Lerd,
namely, that these denunciations from the altar, of which
they had hoard so much, and which could not be denied,
were an intolerable nuisance and ought to be put down.—
( Hear, bear.) It was well known that the soldiers were
frequently prevented from attending chapel in consequence
of the language used by the clergyman from the altar.
The Hoe. Member for Kerry had lead a long exer net from
the Quarterly Review, and among the passages the fed-
lowing---" How many Roman Catholic clergymen aro Re-
peaters ?" and had made a commentary upon the question of
the editor. Why, it appeared to him, and that was alto
the opinion of her Msjesty's Government, that no honest
or loyal man ought to be a reptile-, or ought to belong to
,1
any society having for its object the dismemberment of
the empire.—( Hear, hear.) And set, at a late meeting
at the Corn Exchange in Dublin, a letter was rearLfrono
Dr. Higgins, the titular Bishop of Ardagh, ieclosieg
the subscriptions of himself and 74 clergymea of the
diocese, to the Repeal Association. In addition to that,
they had the testimony of the Hon. and Learned Member
for Dublin, that all the Catholic clergy and hierarchy be-
longed to tbat Association.--( Hear, hear.) He had tres-
passed too long upon the time of the House, but he
could not sit down without observing, that nothing was
more foreign to his intention, and he should be exceed-
ingly grieved, if he had sail anything unkind or hurtful
to the feelings of any Roman Cathclic. He gave them
full credit 'for sincerity, both there and elsewhere, when
they disclaimed these obnoxious doctrines. But they had
been found in the books which were read by the students
in the College of Maynooth, and it was the duty of his
Hon. Friend to bring them under the consideration of
the House and the public.—( Hear.)
Mr. W. BARRON said it was not surprisirg it Roman
Catholics in that House were willing to stand up and deny
in the most solemn manner the dee:rifles which bad been
attributed to them by Hon. Gentlemen opposite. He
(Mr. B.) should think that he was not fulfilling his duty
either to his constituents or to his own feelings if he did
not in the most solemn manner repudiate the abominable
and atrocious docirinestrought forward to-night in that
House, by Hon. Gentleman opposite, with regard to not
placing faith in heretics—with regard to taking oaths from
which they might be absolved, and by which members of
other persuasions should be bound, and other doctrines of
that kind, which he would not trouble the House oith detail-
ing. The Roman Catholics had at various times, in the most
solemn manner, denied the truth of them doctrines. They
had denied that thare were such doctrines believed by them.
Their divines, and every person of any authority in the
Roman Catholic Church who had written on the subject,
had equally denied the existence of these doctrines. He
was only astonished that iu the present age, and in that
Legisliture, there should be found any one individual in
that House, or in any community of Christians, oho would
attribute such abominable doctrines to any class of their
fellow-countrymen. They must have known in their hearts
that what they thus attributed was false. They ought to
have known it when they came forward in that House—
they ought to have examined into the subject before they
attributed such horrid doctrines to their Rornaa Catholic
countrymen.—( Hear.) He could not restrain himself from
stating in the strangest manner possible, that such
doctrines were not those of his ( Mr. Barrow's) Church,
and those who attributed then to that Church should
make more diligent iniviry before they had the audacity
to impute to their fellow-Christians,--men in as high sta-
tion, and of as legli feelings as themselves—such abomina-
ble and unfounded dextrin et. If the Hon. and Learned
Member far Dublin were now in his place, he (Mr. Bain
row) would be congrattiatieg Lim on the effects that
would certainly be produced in favour of the Repeal ques-
lien by the motion of the lion. Member for Kilmarnock
( Mr. Colquhoun) That Honourable Member's motion
and speech would go far to enlist the Catholic's of
Ireland in the Rep7at agitation. It would show theta
that there was a spirit of rancorous big.,,try
s ill in existence among a portion of the more
oalightened people of this country, which had found its
way into the House of Commons, and had at least given
rise to the expression ef feelings which he hoped had
been long laid at rest by the Bill of 1829. But with re-
cessed to the charges brought against what had been
termed the 't denunciations from the altar," he ( Mr. Bar-
ron) must say that having heard the exhortations of the
Catholic clergy on various occasions, for a period of
twenty-five ears, he could safely say in the presence of
that House, and of the country, that he never yet heard one
single word on any single occasion uttered, that
would not do honour to the clergy of any Church or any
Christian assembly. Those exhoit diens inculcated the
duties of subjects to their own country and to their se-
vereign, and ()helium° to the constituted authorities, and
were it not for the exertions of the prie-thood of Ireland tho
people of that country would on many occasions be driven
to a state of desperate rebellion. He regretted exceed-
ingly that those religious differences should form a matter
of discussion at the present day in that enlightened as-
sembly, because lie thought that it was a disgrace to them
before the nations of Europe. They were the only Le-
gislature on earth in as Lich fubjccta would be heard dis-
cussed in such a manner. Would it be said that while the
rest of the world was progressing in liberality, that Eng-
land alone should be retrograding ? Austria, France,
Pruesie, and Holland, had adopted a line of conduct on
this he ad, which should wake Enteral blush. The lion.
Member here proceede I at some length to iestitute a com-
parison between the line of policy pursued on this subject
by E: gland and the four States be had just mentioned,
and contended that the peace and harmony which prevailed
among the various religious sect: ie those countries re-
sultei from the enlightened views taken by their respec-
tive Governments, which, in the Protestant States, nan:e!y,
Prussia and Holland, presided that the education of the
Catholic subjects of these kingdoms should be as carefully
ant:ceded to as that of the Protestants, to whom no pre-
ference regarding emolument or distinction in the uni-
versities was given to the exclusion of their Catholic
fellow-countrymen; and in support of those statements,
the Honourable Member mentioned that the Professor
rif History in the University of Bohai (Prussia) had,
in reply to a question from him (Mr. Barron), as
to whether the professors of that University were equally
Protestant and Catholic, had told him that that was a
question ' that never cute el into the ideas of any man
these to ask ; the only thing inquired into, when a candi-
date f r a Professorship appeared, was, who was the most
eligible person? In Austria and Fiance the same liberal
and just policy was fsllowed. Inn Austria, an empire
possessing 35 millions of inhabitant:, of all languages,
he might say, and eif different religions, but possessing
unity (nue millions of Protestants, the University of the
ci y of Vienna was endowed with a Professorship of Di-
vinity of the Protestant finial. When, he would ask, would
a similer enlightened policy be pursued in Oxford or
Cambridde ? The University of Dublin, established for
the education c.f this Protestant imiesthood of Ireland, bad
a yea Iy revenue of 40,0001., and tleitt, for the clergy
of only ono n illion of the inhabitants cf that country.
Was it common sense—was it prudeacc—for Han. Mem-
bers to come down to that House to oppose the teal ry
grant of 8.000/. a-letm for the cducatiGn cf the clergy of
seven trillions of the inhabitants of that country ? The
grant should be eight times that amount. Sure, policy—
prudence would dictate a far different course from that
pursued in the course cf that night's discussion by Hon.
Gentlemen opposite, if they were determined to do away
with the effects of the iron rule and despotic
sway ef the governors of Ireland in a by-gone time.
They might be assured of it until they did that—until they
gave an increased grant to the College of Maynooth, they
would never base a class of men completely fitted for the
mission as he should wish them. At the same time, he
maintained that they Were, upon the whole, a moral, reli-
gious, End excellent set of men ; and it was only asto-
nishing to him • that, with such small advantages, they had
been able to do so much. The House could not forget
that the pi milt discussion was looked to with great in-
terest in Ireland. They could not forget that discon-
tent in Canada had been but recently allayed, and that
in many of their other colonies a large proportion of the
people were Roman Catholics. Did they suppose these
fee Tie would be pleased with the line taken by the Hon.
Gentlemen opposite, and that their ties of friendship and
good feeling towards England :would be increase! in
consequence of the present discussion ?—( Hear, hear.)
Hon. Gentlemen talked of their consciences ; but if they
di f use that doctrine, let it be carried to its fullest ex-
tent. The Honourable Member for Oxford had talked
of his conscience, but when he did so, surely be ought
to have some little respect for the consciences of John
Thorogood and those other Dissenters who refused to
pay Church-rates. The lion. Member could not take
the consciences of every other man into his safe keeping ;
and bow could he reconcle it to his conscience to vote for
the grant to the Irish Presbyterians if he believed the
Church of England was the only true Church; or did his
conscience extend to Presbyterianism while it refused to
admit Catholicism? 'rhe:e could be but one true religion,
that must be pelted; but which it was was the main
point of discussior. It was a question that bad puzzled
the most eminent statesmen, philosophers, and divines,
and they could not suppose that their discussions and di-
visions in that House would set the question at rest. They
never would.—( Hear, hear.) He had every respect for
the consciences of other men; but he expected that they
would, in return, respect his. Whatever the Hon. Mem-
ber's conscience was, however, he was bound to act for
ti c good of the country, without reference to religious
opinions or distinctions. Now, Hon. Members on the
other side should not forget that their Universities were
founded by Romani Catholics. They bad been unjustly
and unfahly deprived of the benefit of these Universities
which they had founded from their private fortunes and
private resources, and it w nothing less than
spoliation and roblery when it had been comn ted by the
ancestors cf Hon. Members opposite. Why did he le f. r
to that atcurristince ? Because they now grudged to
grant the small pittance ilea was asked by the Irish people.
Ile had raid that they were retie grading in this country.
He was afraid that there were many people in this country
who were retregrading in a proper sense of liberality.
This had been increasing from the agitation of the Gen-
tlemen opposite for the last three or four years, who had
been anxious, at the expense of their country and their
good sense, to get into office; and it was in consequence
of that that they had brought forward the motion of
tine lion. Member for Kilmarnock. Ile holed that they
should soon see this Bill in Ireland, as he could assure
the lion. Member that it would prove a great acceoion of
strength to the lien. Member for Dublin on the question
of the repeal of the UnioD. —( Hear, hear.)
Sir R. BATE SON supported the motion of his Hon.
Friend the Member for Kilmarnock. Maynooth was
founded to educate the Roman Catholic loutb in a liberal