The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-30 00:00:00

such poorhouse be at least six miles from
any infirmary, such buildings or wards as shall
he approved of by the Poor-law Commissioners, for the
reception of destitute poor persons requiring surgi-
cal assistance ; and it shall be lawful for the iguar-
diens of the said union to charge the expense incurred
in the maintenance and medical treatment of the said
destitute poor persona upon the rates of the said union,
or of the electoral division to which they may belong.
And whereas great advantage would arise, were wards
for surgical cases made available in the different poor-
houses in Ireland for the reception of the poor, ece., be
it enacted that surgical wards be provided fur such poor
persons, &c., upon receiving security for the expense in.
cnrred in the maintenance and medical treatment of such
persons. And be it enacted, that it shall be lawful for
the guardians of any union to pay out of the rates the
expense incurred in conveying any destitute poor person
to any infirmary or hospital, who from accident or
otherwise may require surgical assistance, and in
maintaining such destitute poor person iu such hospital.
Mr. LABOUCIIERE objected to the clause, as it
would interfere with the Bill for the regulation of
the medical charities.
After a few remarks in support of the clause, from
Sir H. W. Barron, Mr. P. Scrope, and Mr. M. J.
O'Connell, the clause was negatived without a division.
Sir GEORGE GREY said, the Hon. Member for
Kilkenny (Mr. J. O'Connell) had given notice of a
clause to be inserted after clause C, section 10, for the
appropriation of a separate apartment for the religious
worship and practice of each denomination of Christians
among the paupers, and also giving the appointment,
control, and dismissal of the schoolmaster and school-
mistress of each denomination to a sub-committee of
the board of guardians, to consist of the guardians of
such religious denominations. He thought that cases
might arise where such regulations would be necessary;
at the same time that he did not approve of a heavy
expense being incurred for the erection of separate
places of worship where they were not absolutely re-
quired. He bad, therefore, prepared an amendment to
the clause of the Hon. Gentleman, giving the Poor.law
Commissioners a discretion to carry out these objects
where they should think necessary, and he would beg to
propose it to the House.
The clause, as amended, was agreed to without dis-
cussion.

Lord G. BENTINCK then moved the addition of the
following clauses:—" And be it enacted, that, save as
hereinafter provided, it shall not be lawful for any occu
pier of rateable property holding under any lease or
agreement to be made or entered into after the passing
of this act, nor for any tenant at will, or from year to
year, after the Ist day of January, 1849, to deduct from
the rent to which he may be liable in respect of such
property any amount whatever in respect of any
rate which may be imposed at any period subsequent
to the date of such lease or agreement, or subsequent
to such Ist day of January, as the case may be.
And be it enacted, that all the provisions of the
Act 6 and 7 Vic., c. 92, intituled, " An Act for the fur-
ther Amendment of an Act for the more effectual Relief of

the Destitute Poor in Ireland " for the charge and reco-
very of rates upon property rated to a net annual value
not exceeding four pounds, shall be deemed and taken to
apply to the like property rated to a net annual value not
exceeding five pounds. Provided nevertheless, and be it
enacted, that no immediate lessor holding under any
lease or agreement to be made or entered into after the
passing of this Act, shall be authorised to deduct from
any rent by him payable under such lease or agreement
to his superior landlord any amount whatever in re-
spect of any rate which any be imposed at any
period subsequent to the date of such lease or
agreement." The Noble Lord then► proceeded to say,
whilst the rental of Ireland was 13,187,4701. sterling,
the rack-rent was 17,000,0001 ; the effect of this was,
that the landlord paid 2s. sd. of tho rate. Such a state
of things kept down the disposition of the tenant to re-
duce the rate, for his poor relations gained more than
he lost by his assessment. The million of heads of fami-
lies in Ireland, representing five millions of people, lived
without any regular means, or knowledge of how they
were to provide for themselves or their families. Nearly
one-half of them lived in houses or cabins with only two
rooms; and ninety thousand of them lived in
mud cabins, without either windows or doors. With
such a state of things, the poor rates, when the
Act came into operation, would be 20d. in the pound.
He thought it would be for the advantage of
all parties to throw the whole burden on the
rate-payers generally, instead of on the land
lords, for it was surely better that the poor should
be dependent on 500,000 or 600,000 tenant-farmers, in-
stead of but 16,000 landed proprietors. This was the
object of his amendment, which was in entire conformity
with the observations of the Noble Lord at the head of
the Government in introducing tho present measure.
Though in some particular instances, as had
been objected to, his clause might operate injuriously
on the middle-man ; generally speaking, its operation,
he was firmly persuaded, would be beneficial.
The effect of his first clause, then, would be this— sup-
posing Bs. to be the rate paid by the landlord, the land-
lord would deduct 45., namely, half the rate, from the
tenant ; or if he should be debarred from that, he would
be at lib3rty to enter into a new contract with the
tenant. That would be a most stringent means of get-
ting rid of the middle-man, who must be allowed to, be
the bane of Ireland. Such was the effect of the first of
his clauses. The first object of the second clause was
to reduce the small rate-payers, and the
second to withdraw from the inducement
to sub-let small farms to small holders
The object of the proposed clause would be to improve
the character of the rate-payers by removing from the
tenant who was rated under 51. the liability to pay poor-
rates. The effect of the measure would be to remove
this liability from the shoulders of 76,027 persons, while
there would still remain of persons rated above that sum
509,726. The guardians would, when thus elected by
a better class of rate-payers, be more likely properly to
fulfil the duties which might devolve upon them by virtue
of their office than when chosen by the lower class of
rate-payers.
Sir G. GREY did not believe the statement of the
Noble Lord would lessen the alarm felt on the subject
by the Irish landlords. The rental of Ireland was 13
millions, and the landlords were rated at present at 17i
millions; but the proposition of the Noble Lord would
increase that rating by half a million more. The adop-
tion of the proposition of the Noble Lord would inter-
fere with the working of the project, and he considered,
therefore, that it would be better to postpone it for the
present. Nothing could be more mischievous than to
hold out to the people of Ireland any expectation that,
because the potato crop had failed, there was to be an
end to all exertion on their part. The Bill would afford
to meet an emergency, but not to encourage a deficiency
in the individual exertions of the Irish people. He
should, therefore, oppose the clause.
Mr. SHAW said the clause would assimilate the law
of Ireland with the law of England, and he could not see
what sufficient reason could be urged against its
adoption. He would quite agree with the principle of
his Noble Friend if he would act up to it. His Noble
Friend had said that the sacrifice would be of the

13,000,0001. a yearoii—thepiWtof the landlords for the
sake of the labourers, and if the 1,500 were to be sacrificed
for the 700,000 now engaged on the public works, he was
also ready to agree to it; but it should be recollected
that they were not prepared to give the English poor-
law in its entirety. When the Hon. Member for
Northamptonshire had first stated his scheme to the
House, he had dissented from it ; but he was now of a
different opinion, and if they would give the English I
poor-law in its entirety, he was quite ready to agree to
it. The effect of the law would be, as he conceived, that
the poor-rates would be thrown on the small occupiers,
and if they would give the English poor- law in its whole
effects, he thought that it would be a boon to the coun-
try, and a motion which he could readily support.
BROTHERTON moved that the Speaker report
progress, and ask leave to sit agaiu.—(Cries of " Go
on, go on," and Mr. Brotherton refrained from press-
ing his motion.)
Captain HARRIS felt that the Noble Lord was en-
titled to the highest credit for the introduction of this
law, but he thought that it was insufficient for the pur-
pose.—(Loud cries of " Divide, divide.")
Sir W. JOLLIFFE thought the system adopted in
this country should be applied to Ireland—namely,
throwing the burden of the rates in the first instance on
the occupier of the land. It would then be the interest
of the farmers to find work for the labourers for the
purpose of keeping them off the rate.
Mr. M. J. O'CIONNELL said the tenantry of Ireland
did not call for this arrangement. It had existed for
centuries in England, but it was quite unsuited to Ire-
land. They might as well talk of extending it to Siberia.
Gentlemen seemed to forget that in Ireland half the rate
was now paid by the landlord, and the other half by the
tenant. 'This, therefore, was but another sample of the
extension of English laws to a country of whose existing
laws they were utterly ignorant. Ile warned the House
that a more dangerous experiment could not be tried
than that now proposed by the Noble Lord. By adopt-
ing it they would do more to unsettle the state of
Ireland than all they had done beside would tend to
settle it.
Mr. P. SCROPE opposed the clause. It was objected
to by the tenants of Ireland, and, upon every ground of
reason and justice, ought to be negatived by the Com-
mittee. .

Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD protested that, pro-
posing this clause at such a time, was taking the people
of Ireland by surprise. The tenants of Ireland were in
a very different position to the tenants of Eng-
land, and, therefore, the law of the two countries could
not be assimilated; at all events, if the Committee
passed the clause, he could assure them it would create
disturbance and discontent in the sister kingdom.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the clause 76
Against it 9
Majority ............... 3
- - -

Sir G. GREY moved the following clause: And
whereas by the said first-recited Act the Poor-law Com-
missioners are empowered to purchase or hire land not
exceeding twelve acres, imperial measure, to be occupied
with the workhouse of any union in Ireland, and it is
expedient so to extend the said provision as to enable
the guardians of any union to occupy for certain pur-
poses an additional quantity of land not immediately
contiguous to any workhouse, or to the site thereof:
be it enacted, that it shall be lawful for the Poor-law
Commissioners to purchase or hire laud not exceeding
three acres, imperial measure, in addition to the twelve
acres aforesaid, to be occupied by the guardians
of any union, any portion of the said land so to be oc-
cupied being either contiguous to, or detached from, the
site on which any workhouse stands, as shall be found
most con►enient in each case, and it shall be lawful for
such land to be used for the site of a fever ward, or as a
cemetery for tho burial of deceased inmates of the
workhouse, or for any other purpose which the said
Commissioners shall approve ; and the Poor-law Com-
missioners are hereby empowered to erect such fever
ward on such land to be so purchased or hired as afore-
said, and to direct the guardians of the said union to raise or