The Sun.
London, England, 1849-10-12 00:00:00

ceived. That allegation struck me very forcibly. I
thought at the time it must have been a misappre-
hension of the nature of the measure of the Post-
master-General. It was made, however, by a gen-
tleman at the meeting over which your Lordship
presided.
The LORD MAYOR—Yes; I think it was made by
Mr. Labouchere.
Lord J. RUSSELL—I cannot help thinking that if
all the letters collected were brought to the Post-
office, and sorted by the clerks upon Sundays, that
such a measure might lead to a demand for a Sunday
d:divery ; for persons might say " all these letters
have gone there, they may as well be delivered."
But that is not the measure at all. The measure is
to receive only the letters which are sent on Friday
and Saturday, as the case may be, or which pass
through London upon the Saturday, and forward
them so that they may be received at their destina-
tions on Monday. The original proposal was, that
some of these letters should be sent on early upon
Sunday—so early, that at Edinburgh and other
distant parts they might he received on Monday
morning; but that part of the measure has been
altered. The measure now is to receive only letters
that are to be forwarded upon the Sunday, and to
forward them upon the Sunday evening, so that they
will reach at some time upon the Monday or the
Tuesday, as the case may be, their destination in
distant parts. This allegation, therefore, which has
been stated at some meetings—public meetings, and
in various letters to me—appears to some extent to
have been the foundation of this movement.—(No.)
Mr. MASTERMAN—No, not that ; but the fact that
there must be an increase of Sunday labour in the
Post-office.
Lord J. RUSSELL—AIIow me to go on, if you
please. I have listened to the statements made to me
by the deputation ; and if you will please to allow me,
I will now make mine.—(Hear, hear.) The mea-
sure, then, is not what it was supposed to be. It is
not a measure which, as I conceive, tends at all to the
delivery of letters upon the Sunday. Then comes
the question with regard to violating the sanctity of
the Sabbath, to which' the Lord Mayor properly
alluded, and which has been the foundation of these
objections. But I suppose you will hardly say that
the Sabbath is to be kept only in London • or that
the employment of a great amount of labour on
Sundays, in different parts of the country, is not a
violation of the sanctity of the Sabbath, just as much
as if it were employed in London.—(Hear, hear.) I
suppose nobody would say that the sending of a mail
carriage, which is now the case, from the Eastern
Railway across to the North-Western Railway, or
other convenier,cas of that sort, which employ a num-
ber of persons, if it is not necessary, is not just as much
a violation of the sanctity of the Sabbath as if it were
actually done in London.—(Hear, hear.) I pointed
that out in the letter I had the honour of writing to
the Bishop of London, who naturally takes up the
case of the Post-office clerks of London. As was
considered by the Postmaster-General, he, at least,
will not say it does not signify what amount of labour
we direct on Sunday in the country, there is no
violation of the Sabbath there ; but that if it is done
in London, the Sabbath is violated.—(No, no.) That
is a proposition which, I say, cannot be maintained.
Then the question is not now certainly—whether we
can put off all work in the Post-office on Sundays.
That is a very serious question, which involves many
very important considerations. It involves conside-
rations which are not merely matters of business, be-
cause the letters that are sent throughout the country
by means of the Post office, are not merely upon com-
mercial or banking affirirs; it involves considerations
affecting the dearest domestic interests of a great num-
ber of other persons. For instance, a person may not
send letters through to London upon the Saturday
beoause they are not delivered upon Sunday, nor will
he write upon Sunday; so that no letters would be
received on Monday, or not till late on Monday night.
Suppose, then, a person writing to say that one of his
relations was ill, and that the relation requested his
sister or mother to come down to see him; anything
of that nature, of the dearest value with reference to
domestic affections and domestic relations, would, in
such a case, be suspended for two days in the week
instead of one. This is a very important question,
which we are not to consider now. The question
therefore is, whether, upon the whole, as you agree
we are to consider the Sabbath not with relation to
London alone, but with regard to London and the
country—whether, upon the whole, this measure is an
increase of Sunday labour ? Now, the statement
made to me by the Postmaster-General is, that many
of the measures he has undertaken, and many of which
have been carried into effect, have tended very much
to diminish Sunday labour; and it is his opinion that
this measure, if carried into effect, will, upon the
whole, be &diminution of Sunday labour.
Several Members of the Deputation—No, no.
Lord J. RUSSELL—That, at least, is his statement
made to me. That is his opinion; and I think you
will agree that the question is not to be decided by
such statements as those to which I have referred—
statements which have no foundation, but by in-
quiries such as those which the reverend gentleman
who had just spoken (the Rev. Mr. Baylee) has
made, to see what the labour is which is now- done
upon Sunday in the provincial offices, and what it will
be under this measure. The reverend gentleman has
shown, in several cases—supposing his statements to
be quite correct—that there will be instances where
fourteen hours labour upon the Sabbath will be re-
duced to eleven ; where twelve hours labour will be
reduced to nine, and other instances of that sort of
cr chane. I think you will admit that a diminution of

labour to the extent of three hours upon the Sunday
in a great number of provincial offices—many
hundreds—must be, upon the whole, a dimunition
of Sunday labour.
Mr. BAYLEE—True, my Lord. But there is no ne-
cessary connexion between a diminution of labour upon
Sundays in the provincial post-offices, and an increase
of Sunday labour in the London Post-office.

Lord J. RMELL-With regard to that there is this
point to be considered, which, I think, has not been
referred to—namely, the amount of letter. writing
upon Sunday. A person who is going to write, say
from Dover, upon tho Saturday night, would say,
" there is no chance of my letter going on, therefore
I will reserve my letter for Sunday." Accordingly,
we find the increase of letters coming into London
on the Monday morning is very great, because they
are now written upon the Sunday instead of being
written upon the Saturday ; and thereby a very great
increase is occasioned to the labour of the provincial
offices.

Mr. BEVAN—But your Lordship will forgive me
for observing, that if all country post-offices were
closed upon the Sunday all the letters would be put
in on Saturday.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord J. Russam.—That is quite a different ques-
tion. If it were for the general convenience and ad-
vantage of the country to shut up the post-offices
upon Sunday, in every part of the country as well as
in London, I quite admit if that could be done it
would be a very great advantage for the observation of
the Sabbath.—(Hear.) Whether the nature of post-
office communication is such as to admit of it I will not
pretend to say ; but I am pointing out to you that
there are communications to be made by the Post-
office, which are often communications of very great
importance. A man near Southampton is suddenly
ordered to embark with his regiment, and he wishes
to see his wife or his sister before he goes. If for two
days in the week the Post-office is to be closed, there
is no chance of his seeing them. There are many
things of that kind constantly occurring, which
would require much consideration before any such
measure could be adopted.
Mr. BEVAN—There is the electric telegraph, my
Lord. In such cases, that could be used.
Lord J. RUSSELL—I am much obliged to you for
mentioning that. A great part of the objections to
the proposed measure go, I think, upon the ground
that there are certain means and advantages of com-
munication now which would be left untouched by
the Sunday closing of the Post office. There is the
electric telegraph, as lam properly reminded. If_ .
it
person is rich enough to go to the Electric Telegraph
office, and pay his 15e. or 163. to
get a messag® con-
veyed, of course he will get it conveyed. So, in the
same way, if a person gets news at Sham
news at Maidstone or Dover,
oofut somethingptont or
very important
for a commercial specu-
lation, he sends it to London on payment of a shilling
by parcel ; it is received here, and upon payment of
another shilling it goes down to the part of the coun-
try where the speculation is to be entered upon, and
thus his purpose is answered. With regard to the
rich, therefore, there might possibly be no very great
disadvantage in such a measure as closing the Post-
office for two days in the week. But with regard to
the poor—when you come to them and ask them,
" Will you go and spend your 15s. or 163 to send
your message by the electric telegraph, or Is. or 2s.
to send it by parcel ?" their answer must be, "We
are quite unable to afford it." Therefore Ido hope,
in considering questions of this kind, you will take
into your consideration the necessities of the poor as
well as the means and the conveniences of the rich. I
know it is said that the measure has not been recom-
mended to us. But it is a measure that was recom-
mended by two commissions which sat upon the
Post office; and it was also recommended by a
Committee of the House of Commons. The Post-
master General, therefore, had the minute drawn up
by Mr. gill whisk has to day appeared LI the