The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-08 00:00:00

TH E SUN, ,LONDON, SATURDAY, MAY 8, 1841.

more accurate ?—(Hear.) The manufacturing interests so that while our population had increased, we had not
was dealing lightly with their lest interests, when for the increased our trade in the same proportion. It was neces-
fsvour of one small market they were shaking the whole sary, therefore, that our whole commercial policy should
of the East and West India trade. Commercially he did be brought before the House, not as a mere party gees-
not think that any case had been made out for such a tion, but as a question of State policy, on which each
rcessure. The President of the Board of Trade might party might state their principle, and show the country
leek forward with apprehension to the time when he to decide between them.—( Hear, ) As to the
would he called upon to complete a treaty with the Bra- point of increasing the sieve trade, he knew tliat the West
z la. But because we were to take a small qusr.tity of Indies hal been ruined every 'ear for the last fifty years.
their sugar—say 10,000 tons at most—the Brazilians Ie 1798 it was stated that nothing could save the plan-
would compel themselves to take a great quantity of ter but the high price of sugar, and now that slavery was
our manufactures. They did not take them now because abolished, they made the same complaint, asked to
vie took their sugars or their cottons, but because they be efferded protection; and that the people of this
liked them. A great and a fine-sounding argument used country might be taxed for that purpose. When he found
against the West Indian inte!est, was their importing slave the same complairits preferred at all times, he was in•
grown sugar in a refined state for their own use.— duced to think they were concerned for something else
(Cheers.) It was a very fine argument, but in effect the besides slavery and the slave trade.—( Hear, hear.) He
West Indians had nothing whatever to do with it. It en- i believed that distress would continue so long as these
tirely lay at the door of their agents, the refiners, and the protective duties should exist. The free trade enjoyed
general merchants. How that teas to impl'cite the bur- 'in the British possessions in India had been the founds-
maeity of the West India interest, be could not con- i tion of their prosperity. In cotton, sugar, and indigo,
ceive. They had not the slightest connexion eirh it.— i the unprotected trade of the East Indies had enabled them
([lsar.) If ee had succeeded in showing that financially to compete with slavery and the slave trade in the Weq
no case had been made out tor such a change, that comm r- led c 3. Ile asserted the proposition most distinctly, .that
clay the: e was no inducement to take this step, if be had free labour, under all circumstances, was more productive
sun ceeded is showing that, for the interests of the con- than slave labour. This was remarkably proved at, tho
sumer, there was no inducement to adopt the measure, and island of Porto Rico, which was naturally divide/
thet necessarily they, without any temptation in any of into two portions one cultivated by slave, and the other
these ways, would damage the interests of the by free labour. In promoting the reduction of the sugar
country, and the success of teat great experiment duties, he believed he was taking that course which was
of free labour which they held undertaken so most likely to promote the permanent interests cf the
nobly, and in which they still hoped to succeed—if he West lattice and to enable them to compete with slave
hid made out those positions, he trusted. produce. The lion. Member for the Tower Hamlets
that the sense of the House would be in favour of his (Dr. Lushington) had taken another position, namely,
amendment, which was—" That, considering the efforts I that slavery ea; against the laws of God, and that, there-
and sacrifices which Parliament and the country have made fore, he would do nothing directly or indirectly to en
for the abolition of the slave trade and slavery, with the courage it. If the lion. Gentleman legislated on such
earnest hope that their *exertions and example might lead principles as that, he would do soon the princieles by wide')
to the mitigation and final extinc irn of those evils in other every bigot supported every act of intolerance that was ever
countries, this House is not prepared (especially with the promulgated. Where was suck a principle to stop? How were
present pros.peets of the supply of sugar from British pas- they to exclude al slave-grown produce? Why he would
sessions) to adopt the measure proposed by her Majesty's venture to say th..t his lion. Friend had his pocket full of
Gevernment for the reducti in of the duty on foreign slave-grown produce at that moment. His snuff-box was
sugar." full of slave-grown produce. Probably, also, he
Mr. HOGG was aware that the amendment went wore a cotton shirt.—(Hear, and loud laughter.)
fumeser than merely to contradict the motion of the If he understood the Noble Lord who brought forward the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, hut still he thought it was measure he was opposed to the introduction of stave-
the only way in which that motion could be tree.—(Hear, grown subs. He believed the opposition of many Hon.
hear.) The Noble Lord opposite (Lord J. Russell) had Members te the proposition was from an unwillingness to
said that the Opposition approved of the foreign policy of encourage slavery and slave-labour, but he did not think
the Government, and especially in regard to China. It the plan of the Government would have any such effect.
was quite true that the Opposition made no objection to It had been said that a reduction of the price of sugar
the expenditure which had been incurred in the war with would not increase its consumption. He did not expect
that power. But at the same time they were far from to have heard such an argument in that House. In 1831
approving of the policy which rendered the expenditure or- the average price of sugar was 235. 6d. ; the population
cessary.—(Cheers from the Tory beeches.) He considered was then estimated at 20,000,000, arid the revenue
the present the most inopportune time that could be chosea amounted to 4,630,0001. ; web iu 18.10 the price was
for a reduction cf the duties upon foreign and slave-groan 48e. 6d., and although the population had increased to
sugar.—( Cheers.) On the faith of the measure (for 24,000 000 the revenue amounted only to 4,449,000/.
which the East Indians were grateful to the Govern- Nothing could more clearly point out the injurious effects
meat) a vast amount of capital had been embarked in the of a high price of one of the necessaries of life than that
cultivation of the sugar cane in the East Indies.—(Hear, statement. It was said that this was a large proposition
hear.) The Brazilian merchants themselves asked only to be brought in by a tottering Ministry; but he would
for a duty of 365., and men generally asked for more than say that the opposition with which it had been met was of
they expected-4 Hear, hear. and a laugh)—but the Chan. the most ominous character. It was of great importance
cellar of the Exchequer now proposed to give them ex- to be able to supply a falling revenue without bay-
rctly what they wished, in its very ex reme.---(Hear, ing recourse to any new taxes.—(Cries of " Hear.")
he rr.) Ile was satisfied that if this measure were It was stated in evidence before a Parliamentary Corn.
adopted the country would be inundated with mi!tee that in consequence of the present high price of
sugar, the produce of slave-holding countries, to the ex- sugar there were manufactories established in various parts
elusion of our own colonies in the East and the West.-- of London for the purpose of adulterating the article, and
(" Hear, hear," and laughter.) The extent to which the the coffee-house keepers had stated that unless the price
produce of those countries might be increased would he of sugar and coffee was reduced, they would not be able to
understood from the fact that Cuba, which twenty years carry on their business any longer.--( Hear, hear.) He
ago imported sugar, now supplied three-fourths of the would read an extract from a letter which he had.
sugar consumed in the whole world. The Hon. Member lately received from .Moscow, in order to show the House
then read sorneParliamentary returns to show that the con- what the result of protective duties bad been in that part of
sumption ofsugar was not diminished by the increase of price. the world. It appeared from it that failures were frequent,
By the introduction of foreign sugar Cuba and the Brazils and that the great bulk of the capital employed in manu-
would gain most, and our own country would be the chief factures had been irretrievably lost, notwienstandirg the
sufferer. The Hon. Gentleman here read extracts from protective duties that had been imposed upon foreign menu-
tee official returns, to show that from the year 1830 to factures.---( Hear, hear.) They were at present negetiat-
-1838 the exports to the East and West Indies went on in- ing with the United States, and unless they were disposed
creasing progressively, and that the exports to the Brazils to make liberal and timely concessions, they could not ex-
were equal in amount to the exports to the West and East peet to have the markets of the United States opened for
Indies put together. Mr. flawkshaw, in his evidence be- their produce.—( Hear.) He would ray that whatever
fore the Import Duties' Committee, stated that at Felmouth might be the result of the present discussion in that House,
there were 250 tens of foreign sugar, and if he was allowed the speech of the Noble Lord (J. Russell) would produce
to lend that sugar, paying the same duty as upon English a powerful effect out of dours.—(Cheers.) The Noble
colonial sugar, the consumer would have sugar 365. per Lord had proposed to meet their financial embarrassments
cwt. cheaper; and yet the men who admitted that there without laying ell any new taxes, and he had been met
would be such et remunerating prix e, demanded that on the very threshold by the opposition of Hon. Members
such an alteration as that proposed should be opposite. He should conclude by tendering his warmest
made. Mr. M'Qucan stated before the same support to the proposition of the Noble Lord, who had
Committee that one fertile acre of land in the Brazils done more by his present measure to obtain the support of
would produce as much sugar as six cures in the West the country generally than by any act of his long public
Wi:h such facts before them were they going to and usetul lif .—( Hear, hear.)
agree to the proposed alteration. The recommendation Mr. HANDLEY said the proposition with which the
of the above-named Committee was worthy of being at- Noble Lord had come down that night on the subject of
tended to—it was that the alteration in sugar duties the Corn-laws, bid fee. to exceed the most sanguine ex-
should be gradual ; that some notice should be given of pectations of tee Anti-Corn-law League.—(ilear, hear.)
the alterations intended to he made. The Right Hon. He on the part of his constituents would say, that he
Merntu r the Chancellor of the Exchequer, when intro- would much rather have no protection at all than the pi-e-
-ducing a Bill on the equalization of the duties on sugar, trot ion which the Noble Lord was about to offer them.
admitted the fairness of notice being given. Mr. Spring lie would rather see the ports thrown open at once, and
Rice said in the discussion which took place OD the sub- the Custom-houses shut up. He had on many occasions
ject two years ago, that it would be a base fraud on the given his support to her Majesty's Government, and should
people of the West Indies to admit one ounce of do so again, but with regard to the Corn-laws he should
foreign-grown sugar, meaning by that term, sugar be wanting in his duty to his constituents and the ecuntry
grown in the subsidiary possessions of the East if he did not give the measure his most decided opposi-
Indies. Whatever benefit should be derived to ton, although he hoped the opportunity would never be
the revenue, it was clear that 700 000/. would not be afforded him of voting against the measure.—' Hear.)
gained, except by introducing such a quantity of sugar at M.-. JAMES had been highly delighted with the noble
365. per cwt. as would dislodge the British grown sugar, and statesmanlike speech of the Noble Lord (J. Russell),
and in that case the duty must amount to an enormous sum. and although he was himself a large West India proprietor,
The lion. Gentleman said, in the present state of affairs the Noble Lord opposite ( Sandon) need not calculate upon
the alteration proposed was necessary, but he did not say his vote.—(Cheers.) lie never permitted his private M-
in the present state of what affairs—whether comirrescisl, terests to ieterfere with his public duty, and where the ire
financial or political affairs ?—( Opposition cheers.) The terests and comforts of the home population Here so
Noble Lord pointed the at:ehtion of the House to the deeply involved, he, should decidedly give them a prefer-
present satisfactory state of the free labourer ie the West once over the biack population of the col rnies.—( Cheers. 1
Indies, but he did not advert to the position of the planter. Sir S. LUSHINGTON felt it his duty to make some
The improved state of the labourer arose from hit being observations to the House, on the question then before
at le to exact what wages he chose from the plan- them ; and, undoubtedly he should have felt that ohli4e-
ter, who was endeavouring to concur in the plans of the tion even it' his Hon. Friend the Member for Lambeth,
Legislature fur introducing free labour. Was it, then, had not taken upon himself the unusual coarse of fore-
st the present moment, and in such a state of things. stalling the opiniansot a Member, before he bed expressed
het the measure proposed tia; to he enacted, and all the therm putting them in his own language, and directing
prospects hitherto indulged in de,trot ed ?—( Opposition against them a ridicule to which he had been accustomed
Cheers.) He would ask what would be the state of the for twenty years, without having ever felt himse.f in the
negro in a few years under the operation of that measure slightest degree injured either in his own opinion or that
should it pass? Would any proprietor in the West Indies of others. With respect to the course which he meant
bane consented to the sacrifices he bad made could behave to pursue, if his Hon. Friend had stated that he
foreseen that such a measure would be proposed ? t had ever been the determined enemy of slavery under
The East Indies would not, in his opinion, be so badly whatever form it appeared, and in whatever quarter
off under the operation of this Biil as the West Indies of the world ic had led to the murder and bloodshed
would he. He was no advocate for restrictions in trade, of thousands of our fellow-creatures, —if his Hon.
except where called for by the necessities of the case. The Friend meant to say that he had ever expressed his A-
lion. Gentleman here proceeded to read an extract from horrence of these practices, and he had declared his opi_
Mr. Labouchere, the substance of which was that that Mon that they were contrary to the laws of God and man,
Right Hon. Gentleman could not, on account of existing he should confess that he would still stand by such opi-
tread, s, admit of the distinction sought to be made be- nions, and in doing so, he claimed for himself what he felt
twr en free-labour and slave-grown sugar, so that the latter to be an honour, and not a subject of ridicule.—( Hear,
might, be totally excluded- They might, he said, look to hear.) But his Hon. Friend asked what right they had
ti e East Indies for a cheap supply of free-labour sugar, to proclaim their virtuous opinions to other States, and to
but the experiment then made, and which tie country pass Acts for Spain, the Brazils, or other countries, who
had a right to sea fairly carried out, would not be so if chose to take upon themselves to carry on those dread.
they were to inundate the market with a supply of fo- ful practices? What right had they? 'Why, they had
reign sugar. Tne opinions and fears which he (Mr. declared
amtheneitr
in
sentimentsth e
ye,r oinBot7h,e subjecttbhye ActCaonngre ss
limeg) entertained on this subject were not reer ely his; they of and at
we,e also entertained and communicated to her Majesty's of 1815 they had the declaration of all the great
Government by the Directors of the East India Con; party. States in Europe, that the slave trade was contrary to hu.
Supposing all the cdcuiadoes that he lad made were LID- maeity and justice—to the cause of God and man.—
true—that the supply of sugar would nut equal the con- ( Hear, hear.) Why, they had treaties with ever> one of
samption—would the House, on that account, consent to the great Powers on the subject; they had treaties, too,
ached a measure which amounted virtually to a reveal of with Cuba and the Brazils. They had a right, then, to
the preat and glorious measure of emencipation?—( flehr, assert their principles, and that would not be acting with
hear ) If they did regret the vast efforts they but intolerance. It would be admitted that every country had
made for the suppression of that horrible traffic, a right to denounce that which, in the opinion of Europe,
let them boldly arid openly return to the system. Let was criminal, wicked, and iniquitous. He was aware
them permit the West latFahs to import slaves, let them that in approaching the present discussion, they must
proclaim that the theories of political economy were pa. take into consideration many great and important tnibics
rimount to the dictates wf humanity.—( Cheers.) Was involving almost the state of the whole country. He ea,
it to be endured in a Christian, nay,
e„ a dehibe. well aware of our financial and commercial diffieul ies,
naive assembly, that afar 20,000,000/., arid more than and that the time might be coming when they would have
20 000,000/. abroad, had been expended to put down many embarrassments in forming treaties on comaier.
ry and the slave trade, they should be called upon cial subjects with other countries; be forgot none of those
to adept a measure which would give increased vigour things—he laid them not out of his consideration; bat
to that inhuman traffic becau e sugar was Id. per lb. speaking of one measure, and one measure only, prepared
dearer, and because her Majesty's Ministers were re_ by her Majesty's Government, he was prepared to say that
solved to continue in effice?—( Cheers.) He thought that measure would not remove any difficuities—woutd net
iu weatever view the Noble Lord might endeavour relieve the country from' any embarrassments., while it
to place the question, the House would not consent would lower teen) in the face of Europe, and would degrade
that a tottering Ministry, instead of treating the great them in their own opinions, and would not receive the approval
timetems of the Chre-laws and slaveey on principles of the suffering people of this country.—( Hear, hear.)
of national policy and justice should be permitted, fir lie find ever been a friend to free trade—lre bad ever
purpose; which they did not and dared nor avow, voted for an alteration of the Corer-laes, and he maintained
to handle them as mere ma tars of finaecial opinions still.. Ile had washed for an alteration of
(Hear, hear.) They a'l knew the Noble Lord was a bold the timber dotes, and his opinion remained unchanged
rolilic;an, and being successful he might imagice he was a He is rd ale a; s voted against every measure which could
rigleesus one; but perhaps the Noble Lord might find poss•bly increase the slave trade, sr give it fresh segour,
that there were limits to the forbearance of the country, or augment the measure of slavery, or perpetuate its con-
and to the countenance of those around him. Perhaps the tinuance ; he lied done so last year, and he would be
Noble Lord might find that what he (Mr. Hogg) had ready to do so still. If any persons had changed their
advanced was trot untrue. If this was a mere party ques. oTieians, he had nut changed one iota of those he had ca-
tion, perhaps the Ministry might escape, as they had done, pressed on the motion of his lion. Friend, the Member for
with a majority against them of ten or twenty, Wigen last year. and he saw no reason to change them now.
but being a question involving the existence of It was then declared by an immense majority of the House
our colonies—being a question involving the principles against a minority of 27, that it was not fit or proper
of humanity and the pr..erlts of the Gospel, he believed to reduce the duty on foreign sugar to 245. when
without party feelings, the House would come to such a the price was between 508. and 60s. ; and
decision as would prove fatal to the Ministry, and would ire saw no reason why it should be done when the price
be assuredly hailed with acclamation by the country. had fallen to 375.—( Hear, bear.) if at the time when
Mr. HAWES said he was not surprised at the turn which they had expected that the price would increase, as it
the debate had taken that evening. He was not surprised did, they did not think it necessary to provide for the
th it the wise and statesmanlike views propounded by the contingency of a failing crop and very high prices, muca
Noble Lord—(lronical cheersl—should be narrowed less, in his judgment, was there the slightest reason for
o hta statetovote simply
on andtha
t shortly
interests of the masses of the people,occasion,
down to a mere East and West India question. He had such a course now, when it was a matter of perfect de-
anticipated that when this question was brought forward monstration that there would be a sufficient supply I'4
tre uli
trny . Hi
ceh w
hied
e m o n
t
endeavours would be made to turn conasoiddetrhaletiognrefraotmeottnhe h .
gos
mercial interests of the couotry, to mere partial interests, laying aside all party considerations. He was as much
and in that he found that he was not deceiver'. But admitted to his party and to his principles as any man
thu House might depend upon it this was no Sugar Bill. could be. He was mindful of the conduct of Ministers
—(lronical cheers from the Opposition.) He would in former times; and he was anxious to repay them
maintain that the purchase of free sugar in this country with every fidelity consistent with honour and duty.
was the best means of putting down slavery' and the slave But he should on thisoccasion oppose them. He would do
trade.—( Oh, oh I) Hon. Gentlemen opposite tie ice so, first, because the proposed measure would in his opinion
the propesition, but he remembered that the Hon. mem_ give a stimulus to slsvery ; secondly, became it eould au7,-
ber for Cambridge or the lime Member for Harwich, he recut the miseries et* the existing state of slavery ; thirdy,
forgot which—(Laughter)—bad assented to a prohmition became he drought it unjust to the West Indies; feurillr ,
far more in favour of the introduction of slave. because be thought it deleterious to the people inhabiting
grown sugar than the present was. The Right lion, that country ; filthily, though that perhaps was a less ire-
Gentleman, on the authority cf Sir Charles Grant, sup- portant reason, because be did not think it prudent or eise
ported a measure proposed by the Government of the day as regarded the East Indies ; and lastly, because he was
for the admission of foreign sugar, the rates of duty being, convinced there was no necessity whatever for the measure.
West Indian 20s, East Indian 275., and foreign sugar —( Hear ) He believed they would have an abundant
28e The Noble Lord the Member for Liverpool had but supply of sugar for the year 1841. They lied a right to
slightly touched the subject of means; but he admitted expect in all not less than 205,000 tons. He believed
that the trade of the country was at present in an alarming he might speak confidently on the subject, as they had an
situation. He (Mr. Hawes) bad never known the trade of account of the supplies to be expected from the West Indies.
the manufacturing districts in a state of greater depression ; He would give the House the import hmo Great Britain
but he had heard from the Noble Lord not a word which, of British sugar for the first four months of 1840 and 1841.
could lead him to suppose that the Noble Lord had any- The House would fled, petting together the West Indies,
thing more in his head than a mere party resolution., We , the Mauritius, and Bengal, that in 1839 the total quantity
were now suffering from foreign competition, and we had no of sugar imported was 40,700 tons ; in 1840 it was
mode of reliteringeurselvesbut by increasing our marketsand j 39,400 tons, and in 1841 it was 66,000, being nearly
tempting foreigners to buy our goods. He found that in double the quantity imported in the two preceedi ,g years.
1801 we exported to the amount of 39,700,0001. or, Sc- j Wail respect to the quantity of sugar in bond for the last
cording to the population, about 21. Bs. for each man in three years, they would find that there was, on the Ist of
the kingdom; but in 1840 he found on the same cocoa_ May, 1839, 35,500 tons; 1840, 20,700 tons; and in the
Con that the export for each individual was only a 75., present year 45,700 tons, being more than double

THE BREAD TAX.
GREAT MEETING AT LIVERPOOL.
On Thursday evening a pieblic meeting was held in the Mus'e'
hall, Bond street, Liverpool, to receive a deputation from the
National Anti. Corn law League, consisting of Thomas. Saalel.
Esq., John Bright, Esq., Je imn Brooks, Esq., Richard Cobden, Ell.
and other gentlemen, who came hither to stimulate the people
Lis croon', to a vigorous co.operation with the Manchester Leagt!''
The Music.hatl was more densely crowded than we have ever Vnt
nessed it on any previous occasion, thronged as it frequyn.tlY his
been. It is probable that so vast an amount o persona was never
before congregated within the walls of the Music.imaltrand the
most enthusiastic spirit was manifested by the meeting: "Shortly
after seven o'clock the deputation entered the room, accompanied
by several of the leading gentlemen of Liverpool opposed to the
Corn-laws, and were most rapturously received. On the platforas
we observed a large body of gentlemen well known in Livelr°l
as stemma!' opponents of the Corn.lawe.
On the motion of Mr. W. It aninoNE, Sir Joshua Wa'tnsleY Ivss
called open to preside. The worthy Knight took his seat sun°
the loud plaudits of the assembly,
The CHAIRMAN, in opening the bnsiness of the meeting, said
thus—Ha was not aware of the exact order in which the In.°'
ceedings were to be conducted, but they had assembled for the par'
pose of receiving a deputation from the Manchester Anti. Corn-WW
League, who would adOress the meeting on that all_import3::
todic which had been so frequently discussed in that room.
subject was one in which all, from the highest to the lowest, wet."
most deeply interested, and he was sure that he had no eee34l,!:
to bespeak their earnest attention. All the deputations from ape
Anti Corn-law League had observed the strictest impartiality
to politics, which were to-ally excluded from ail their meeting''
for the repeal of the Corn-laws was a subject which could be free.....;
and fairly discussed without at all entering upon party polities.
(Loud cheers )
The CHAIRMAN then called upon
THOMAS BAZLEY, Esq , who came forward amid much VP-tone
and addressed the meeting. He said that a deputation freer,
Manchester had come here to confer with time people of Liter
I,
pool on one of the most important subjects which could oceeePe
the attention of the citizens of any community. They had catT
to ask for the advocacy and assistance of Liverpool in the
great struggle in which they were engaged—a struggle which Te
for its object the feeding of the hungry and the clothfng of ta
naked. They came hither not to dictate, not to give advice, Po
to interfere in local questions, but to be cheered in their enw%.
course in procuring bread for the people.—(Applause.) kiss,
chester and the manufacturing districts, but Manchester or-
chatty, lied long ielt the deprivation attendant on our fiscal el:
lations, especially of that barbarous and inhuman law which hinde
the labourer from receiving for his industry the staff of life. Hither,
Liverpool had enjoyed a higher degree of comfort than Manchester'
but if It at law were not repealed, the day would come when distress
would be ft It more acutely, when ships would go from this Port
freighted with a less amount of our manufactures and reels
with a less amount of the produce of other countries, All that the
League asked for were equal and just laws--(Cheers)—end this
principle alone was their agitation conducted. Would not .De
meeting, therefore, join with them ? They (the deputation) ,'""
been in almost all the neighbouring towns; indeed, he might s
in nearly all parts of the coum.try, endeavouring to mine' 0(
and to arouse the people. They stood there as missionaries,
the cause in which they were engaged, and even thaehw
for the help and assistance which had been afforded to thee'
50.
avian
They would proceed as they had hitherto done, for a
had now arrived when one grand effort must be made a
emancipate the industry of the country at large. For e I°ol
time Manchester had stood almost alone. They had been aceav
of indiscretion : they had been charged with having asked el
too much. When with bated breath and bended knees they
asked for an inquiry, they were taunted with being unreasooab f
when they asked permission to bake foreign corn, in bond. they
were said to be unreasonable; but the fact was that they hadapeh" 5
for too little, inasmuch as they did not demand the whole angle%
of justice to which they were entitled.—(Applause.) In conneen,°,o
with the subject before them he would state one or two facts Wbi
would show the negligence of our Government compared with the
of other countries in reference to that employment which °Ugh,° be afforded to every people. Being himself interested in Won,
by machinery, he was some time ago waited on by a Prussian
bleman, who, after a lengthened conversation; told him that 00,140
in Prussia water power, building materials, and all the eletenwe
for constructing manufactories, but he concluded by saying, e
have not got your arts, your industry ; give us those, and th
we shall be able to eompete with you, and, probably, to rival 101!,
—(Hear, hear.) The other day, in coming from moo ,e
railway, an engineer of some celebrity, said to him, permit t
to introduce to you a general officer in the Russian service, whit 0,
is in this country for the purpose of obtaining information l
fleeted with our arts and industry. He (the speaker) found, o
t
this Russian general was not only purchasing steam-engines, Muice
gearing, &c. and looking after all the materials of industry W"401
were to give impetus to his country's manufactures, but carrYt'm
out plans which would very materially injure this country If
ge
intention were to enter into foreign competition with us•
would ask if ever an English nobleman or general officer W`
from England to learn the arts of other countries so as to enable,tbe
people of these kingdoms to earn their bread or to raise thetWe', vo
in the scale of civilization. He had never heard of such a thicrete
the people were left to themselves, but they were shae
and they would never be free unless with giant stre°gt
_,Too
they broke the bonds that bound them.—(Cheers.) A combir4
of huge monopolies was crushing the energies of the United N'o,l'st
loin ; but the greatest of these monopolies, he was sorry to salt
ss
to be found in our own landed interest. The unnatural sight sith;
presented to theln of Briton crushing Briton. They found that
it
landowners were possessed of all the comforts which arts an
manufactures could give to them, and monopolised to thenise;s
all the bounties and blessings of Providence. They circultoet' err
the island, and said it shall not maintain any except those 'to
can be supported by the limited extent of our domains. They
found, continually, that the eldest sons of the landowners posse's
uie
the estates of their fathers—that the eldest sons of farmers hee'oe
farm ers—and the eldest sons of labourers were permittedoesr,
high privilege of being hereditary hedgers and ditchers.--( e
hear, hear.) He doubted whether the Legislature was aware ht
the amount of distress at present in this country, but this °_;,f,
to be made known, and every one exert himself for its realo°00„
They (the deputation) had one elaim upon the meeting_..---cear•
chester was identified with Liverpool as one Intelligent °R.tO pre.,
munity, and lie would ask them whether they were ;Tight to
mote that degreee of liberty in trade which they had 3 .n rap.
obtain. He would ask them whether their representative 1-. of
'lament were supporters of that degree of liberty ?--(CrissfUr
" No.") With our commerce unshacked he had no fear feign,
country ! but with our trade in chains, as though it were a e:ta•
he had no hope ! He would exhort them with one effort t°o ce,
blush the freedom and supremacy of commerce—for &it ;es
like its sister mercy, was twice blessed. It blesseth MID "-
and him who receives.—(Cheers.)
JOHN BRIGHT, Esq., of Rochdale, next presented hint-elf, $l4
caeca
was very wariely received. He said that on any ordinary "mine
he should feel that lie owed a very humble apology for °
108 e
himself to the notice of that audience, but he felt that he shout'.
„, if
an apology to them, and to every one of his fellow .countrytneiiitie
on this occasion he hesitated to come forward, and throw enY
oriel
influence he possessed into the scale of justice which now 'e
trembling in a balance. He was as convinced as lie wag: °t hi'
toe
existence of the justice of the principle in which the Anti_Cor%t it
League was based, and being thus convinceed was certain tllore
would ultimately succeed in its object. He thought that there
was abundant evidence in the present condition of this country'
or
,'
or rather of the people or this country; to show the necessity °Lod
coining forward, and indeed of every man becoming a
inis,i° tel
in this great cause. From the highest to the lowest in the realffloy,
felt difficulty and embarrassment, and to a degree, which, Pr°bn3resti
the oldest this country had not hitherto witnessed. This wide*Jdr ore,
distress spared no man, woman, or child. The deputation, thel,—.oce
came before the meeting on a sound principle ass espected the P;tor
of their cause, and as they had shunned all party politics---0 bot
Caine, not as a combination of one trade against another trade:Ry-
as the bread-eating people of England against .a giant and -001
wasting monopoly—they were surely entitled to the sympatillife.
support of all.—(Great cheering.) During the whole of hill but especially during the past two years, he had testowed °I-01
considered°n upon this subject, and the result at which he
°%,
arrived was not to endeavour to make a mystery of the (1"4ti
0,1 f
The want of success which had attended exertion previctor
made, hail arisen in some measure from the question having
wrapped up in so many coverings that the kernel could n°
reached. The mode in which he wanted the meeting to view 00
e
subject was the one in which he had endeavoured to
view it hags,
self. He wanted them to bring the best judgment of their he the
together with the best feelings of their hearts, to bear liP°°,lo pie
question, to drive away all prejudice, and regard it as the si
otee
question that it really was. He defied any sane man to
red
supply and say lie believed that a Corn-law, by which
supply of food was diminished, was just, or could be defend
ed
"to
by a sensible or conscientious venom. The brea"r'ito
was passed for the avowed purpose of keeping P
Des
and steady. If that was the intention of the test
gislature, as it undoubtedly was, and if the effects
had been in accordance with the intention, which was well
to have been the case, by what means had the price been rei7io6
By making an abundance or a scarcity of corn. Did the rnee
think that the price of a commodity could be raised by increas,:ls
supply ?—(Cries of " No, no.") If during the Parliament of tall
to 1828—for he considered them as one Parliament, as the'
throughout manifested one spirit and one object—they had Pa to
some such provision as the following, it would only have bee it
state the real object :—" Whereas, fur some unknown purP°46o,
is expedient that the bread of this country should be raised t° eot
70, or 80 shiliings per quarter," and if officers had been': le
throughout the country to enforce the law, could they have ,ielf
up the price without making a scarcity ? Nothing but a scar'. ,
of themo
could make corn dear, and therefore it followed, as a matter of
evitable necessity, that the Corn-laws of 1815 and 18'7 had Y
their object the diminution of the quantity of corn. Could jug°
sane man believe 'het a law, having for its object the diminish
of the amount of food, could be beneficial to a country It
an undoubted fact that the supply of food was diminist7e,
whilst the population was rapidly increasing; and if the
ing could convince themselves that an increased popular
,ed
could he adequately supplied with a decreasing amnon:o
food, then they could convince themselves of that whiebi,enad
self-evident fallacy. If they coned follow him to scenes that that
witnessed, there was no maim so stupid as nct to acknowledge u,t
thousands and millions were suffering from something which '" so
be remedmed, or that a state of things must come about
which propeity and life would be insecure. Two or three of Ili
Landon Papers,well-known supporters of the Corn-laws, had heebl►
loudly denouncing the factory sytrem, and declared that it most' le
destroyed. Why, the landowners would be the greatest sufferer'
this were dime, fur there was not an estate in the country ti f,
would then he worth (id. Liverpool could not exist in prosperity i;
manufacturing districts were in distress. What would they Wet- t
Surely agriculture could yield nothing to export when it could 11,,
)
give sufficient food for the people on its soil. What then must,
exported ? manufactures or nothing at all. If there were no
„7
lie
toil would then vanish more quickly than it had appeared.
defied any man to point out a place where the Anti-Corn-130 "".,is
sionaries could not find arguments as strong against this system
o
in the factory districts. Every part of the country was interested, arf
to every part the Antecorielaw League was determined to cad.
information on this question.—(Much cheecing Was thereh
a question requiring so little clap-trap. It was the plainest that
had ever spoken upon, when divested of the hundred thousaros,
things which had been winded about it for the sake of InYitif/e
the people. He came from Rochdale, where there were InanueA ee
tories of woollen and cotton, but owing to this law the cotton 7.1.
got the better of the woollen manufacture. In 1838 one One"
e
our woollen mould. ictures went to America. At that time th
it
tariff was laid on, and the British Minister wrote to say that had it
not been for our Corn.law that twill' could not have been Passed'
Since 1338 not 1-20th part of our woollen manufactures had gone
jot
em America. The result had been a decrease of employ an "iv
to the labourers, much discontent, and extensive combinations,,_eir
the men thought that the masters had wrongfully reduced roil
wages, whereas the profits of the master had also been severely
cut down, and many became bankrup:s. Tne men wasted t",
efforts uselessly against machinery instead of directing them ae!o
`,iis,
the abominable law which had , been the cause of their u
tress, Wages, since 183 S, had declined one-hall. Was
etis
likely that mese men could live in comfort if any of
had an additional child? he looked upon it not es a blessing P°o
as a .curse sent from heaven.—(Hear, hear.) It used to he
proverb in their neighbourhood when God sends mouths Jm
sends food. God might send children, but the aristocracy w°uld
00
not let thorn have eeet —( Much Cheering.) The wide-spread
disastrous effects of the Bread.tax were one of time most appall
it
o' a
in circumstances connected with it. It would be a very 'wse
matter if only some dozen of brokers and manufacturers e
for
tumbled d own through it. In America, so customary Ws' 1r
of
the brokers to fail, that Wall-street was known by the 113-e,
"Rotten Wall-street," but notwithstanding this failure of VT' erof
all the labouring population could procure an ample suPPY,te.
food. He knew from letters which he had seen, and, fronr 740 ,
merits which he had heard, that labouring men who had FP"
0. op
America were continually exhorting their relatives here t°-"focia
a country where they were permitted to eat the fruits- of b`„,to
unnisturbe.l—(Much elleoring)--and yet there was no' CUu
so blessed with natural advantages as this, and flod •

!EVENTING EDITION

that of the preceding year. He held in his hand a letter,
which came from a hause of hist) character at Calcutta,
erigieally bearing date the 16th of January, 1841, but
web a postscript of the 15th of February, 1841,
in which, after stating the actual exports during this
fear, amounting to a very large quenrity, the writer states
that if matters continue as they ere it is scarcely possible to
sate what quantity of sugar may not be sent to this country
in the succeeding year. Such wee our prospects in the
East Indies. Ha i we no right to expect better times in the
Weet ? The evils which resulted from the emancipation
of the slaves were gradually ceasing; peace prevailed in
the island of Jamaica, there was an increase of industry,
and they had a right to expect that the fruits of that in-
dustry would be an increased production. The little
island of Aatigua, the most exhausted of almost any of
our i,lands, had, since the abolition of slavery, increased
its exports from 7,000 to 11,000 hogsheads. He e in-
tended that there was every probability of sugar being of-
fered to the people of this country at a reasonable price.
The people of England were great sugar consumers
net eitletaading its high price. —( Herr, hear.) I'
any man would be at the trouble to look into
the recta, he would find diet Great Britain alone
consumed above one quarter of the whole amount of
sugar which was consumed at all. What would be the
result of admitting foreign sugar into Ireland? Ht
had received from toe Island of Cube aavices down to the
Ist of April, by which he found that the increase in the
exports in the two preceding months was 5,000 tons.
How was that increase brought about? By the augmenta-
tion of the slave trade ; by employing slaves, and slaves
only; by working them without mercy, without even al-
lowing them an ordinary quantity of sleep to sustain
human nature.—(Hear, hear.) He would ask, then,
whether any one of the examples of his Hon. Friend had
any bearing on this subject?—( Hear, hear.) He had
told them of the advantages of tree labour, but he had
forgotten to tell them, that in the East Indies there was an
enormous overflow of population, and that in the Went
Indies it was totally ieadequate to the demand.—(Hear,
hear.) Ile (Sir S. Lushirgton) totally denied that the
question before the House was a question of free trade
In free trade there was free compctiti in he-
tweets parties who used the same means and
appliances to attain their object. Who ever heard
of free trade between him who paid a just obedience
to the laws of his country, and discharged the taxes im-
posed upon him, and the lawless ruffian-_a composition
where, on the one side, crime was legalised, and, on the
other, the rights of humanity were observed ? (Cheers.)
Thee was, he contended, no fair competition in a case of
this description. The result was immediate prosperity,
immediate success to him who violated the law. The ul-
timate result was then reducing the finest land to the con-
dition of a wilderness. Let them look, for example, to
the States of America. Mr. Jelin Joseph Gurney, whose
name had been already mentioned, had told him that he had
seen the finest land reduced to the most miserable condi-
tion. What would be the hearing of this measure upon
the great population whom we had emancipated ? Oa
this subject we had then the opinion of the same gentle-
man, Mr. Gurney, who had no interest in this question--
of unspotted character, of practical knowledge, for he
had visited the West Indies and the United States for the
express purpose of acquiring information on the subject,—
or,e of all the men whom he had ever known the
most attached to a strict adherence to truth.—( Hear.)
He happened to have by him the sentiments of that gen.
tleman in writing, on the subject, gven to him before the
question was mooted, and he would take the liberty of
reading them to the House.—(The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman here read an extract of a letter from Mr.
Gurney, stating that the writer considered it of the utmost
importance to the West India colonies that the present
prohibitory duties on sugar should be maintained, as any
relaxa'ion of them would be necessarily attended with the
ruin of the [,haters, and the loss of the daily wages
which the negroes were now earning for their labour,
and with a vast increase in the importation of Cuba
and Brazilian sugar.) The sentiments of this gentleman
were, from his position, deserving of the utmost attention.
He had no West India interests to move him, and was ac-
tuated by nothing but a sincere desire for truth,
and a regard to the interests of humanity.—(Hear,
hear, and cheers.) He would now proceed to defend
himself from the charge of inconsistency which had been
brought against those who opposed the present measure
because they consented to consume other articles, the pro-
duce of slave labour, and did not protest against the impor-
tation of cotton. He considered that he gave tae greatest
proof of wisdom, and was the best friend of humatety, who
looked to the practical execution of beneficial measures, and
not he who, not able to attain all the good of which be may
be desirous, gave up the good which was ie his peer.
He ea; not a wive man who, because circumstances over
which he had no control forced hint to submit to the evils
of resorting to slave countries for certain products, because,
so great a calamity was inflicted on him by the force of
circumstances, would therefore seek voluntarily to augment
it.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) He had pursued the
course of endeavouring to attain all the practical good in
his power throughout the discussion of those quest ons. At
first little progress had been made, but he had conferee i
himself with resting on, and being guided by, public
epinien, first of all by bringing about the abolition of
staverv—next, by procuring an amelioration in the condi-
tion cf the negro—then, by endeavouring to procure a
gradual abolition of slavery—and, at last, when public
opinion was ripe, by the total abolition of slavery, though
the supporters of that measure had been contented with
the practical good they could affect, and had waited to be
guided and supported by public opinion. There were
some other li tle matters which were well worthy
of attention. lie agreed with the Hon. Member for
Bevetley that Cuba sugar would enter into the greatest
competition with Bridsh sugar, but he believed the Br,-
zlhan sugar would also find its way here, and that an en-
couragement would be given to the importation of slaves,
end a great increase in the sufferings of the slaves would
he the consequence. But were they quite sure that i,
would end tttere ? Were they quite sure that the Bra-
zilian Government and the Brazilian planters would not
be inclined to abandon the cultivation of cotton, which
was now partially pursued, and take to the cultivation 01
sugar, ?—( Hoar, hear.) Let thorn ace the course which
had been formerly pursued. lh the West Indies the cul-
tivation of cotton had been abandoned, and the cultivation
of sugar taken to. How could they satisfy themselves
that it would be for the advaltage of this country to de
pend exclusively fur the supply of cotton upon the United
States? and he would contend that any one measure which
tended to render us solely and exclusively dependent
upon the United States, aid to deprive us of
that nece;sary article from otl.er countries, must be most
detrimental to the commercial and mercantile interest, and

one of the most dangerous that any country could adopt,
situated as England was now situated. Ile had listened
with deep attention to the eloquent speech of his Noble
Friend the Secretary for the Colonies, and could not for.
act the pathetic description he had given of the sufferings
of the poor in this country. He (Dr. Lushington) hopee
he was not deficient in the most earnest anxiety to relieve
those sufferings and to restore them to a better state. But
surely when that eloquent description of their sufferings
ha' been given, and which would now go off to the coun-
try exciting their feelings and raising their passions_—
( Loud cheers from the Opposition)—that description of
their condition of suffering from being forced to purchase
a dear article night be contrasted with the sufferings which
must be the consequence of tie adoption of this measur,
for their relief. When he had sat on the ether tide of
the House, with but few fri !nds to support him, actuate /
only by the spirit of truth, and when sotneti:nes his courage
faded him, he found the feelings of the people of thi,
country thing to hit support, encouraging eery effor,
and stimulating Hai to fresh effotts; and he believed that
if the question was put to the people of this country,
whether they would have their sugar cheaper by taking
tit' produce of the labour of the stave, or whe.ner they
~vouid suffer their present calamities, he believe,
they would reject the proposition. —( Loud cheers.)
He had such faili in their principles and kindl%
and good feelings, that lie believed they would prefer the
dinner of herbs to the stalled ox that was offered them.
He ha I made these observations to justify himself, and te
show his own consistency and adherence to his priieipl'.
—(Gceers.) He deeply regretted being obliged to give
vote different from his Noble Friend, but ho was obliged
so do so. If the proposition of the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer could be put in such a firm that he could say no
to it, he would be desirous to do so ; and
fpr as the forms of that House Would per-
mit that was the course he would pursue.
Whit regard to the other questions, he would not cute:
jilt) into them. He had only risen to vindicate his owl,
•s:,iniori, and he was content.—.(Cheers from the Opp-
sition.)

JI
. MART rose and said, at that late hour he
would deteil the H.iuse but for a moment.---( Here the
1-I,in. Member was interrupted by loud crio3 of " Adjourn,"
and "Go on.") He then moved the adjournment of the
debate till Monday.
The question uas put and egreed to.
On the motion of Lord J. RUSSELL, the House, et
its tieing, was adjourned till Monday.
CRIMINAL JUSTICE BILL.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL brought up the Re.
port on this Bill.

Sir C. DOUGLAS brought up a clause providing
compensation fur the coroners of Manchester, Birmitg-
hem, and Bult ,n.

Mr. M. PHILIPS opposed the clause, es one to
which his constituents would not agree, unless it. was pro•
sided that the Coroner of Manchester should discontinue
his opposition to the charter.

St-rougers were then ordered to withdraw, and the
ouse Divided, when there appeared_
For the clause .
Against it...

54

Majority • •
The clause was then added to the Bill, and the Repor
brought up.

Tile Aims (Ireland) Bill was read a third time and
passed.

The other Orders of the Day were then disnosed of, and
the House adjourned at hal!: past Tmelve o'Clock.

THE WEATHER.-NOON, MAY 8.
ROYAL GALLERY OF SCIENCE, A DELA TOE-STREET.
Barometer
Thermometer ...55 Highest 7l Lowest ..
Wind S. S. W.—Freezing Point 32 Deg.

/TM
I EXPECTED DISSOLUTION OF PARLIAMENT.
—'We have reecive4 the following intimation from a source on
Which we have every lesson to rrly :—" It is understood that
' the Queen wiil dissolve Parliament immediately if the Minis-
ters are beaten on the sugar duties.— Tablet.
NOVEL PORTRAIT PAINTING.—At twenty
yf..‘ trs of age, Mademoiselle Guinard had her portrait
paLted by an eminent artist, and by the aid of this picture
she was enabled, if I may so express myself, to analjze her
e3mpl,xion ; that is to sty, she made herself accurately
acquainted with all the different tints of which it was cam-
pocd in t.ie blooming days of her youth. With these
colows duly prepared, she seated herself at her toilette, as
an artist would pllce himself btfnc his easel and there,
with the portrait bciide her, she every morning reprcdwed
its t e&ct fac•simile. By this inge:dous straugetn,
Guinard, at fifty, frequently passed for tv.enty.—Theo.,
dare Hook's French Sine.