The Sun.
London, England, 1840-04-07 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESbAY,ARRIL,_7, 1840.

Sheriff had refused to obey the order of the Court, they would
have been severely punished. Yet, for obeying the orders of
the Court, they had been obliged to undergo a severer punish-
ment than the greater portion of felon convicts. They had now
Stockdale threatening to bring actions before every ether
Sheriff in the land, which must create a state of
things most dangerous to the welfare of the country,
and his opinion was that it was very proper for the
Legislature to interfere. He sincerely thought that this was a
case in which it was most fit for the Legislature to consider
whether it should not interpose to prevent fresh actions being
brought, and to prevent also the present ones from proceeding.
He could assure their Lordships that it would take much plead-
ing at the bar in order to convince him that 7001. was not am-
ple compensation for all the injuries sustained by the plaintiff.
The Bill ought to be considered, because publication now was
inevitable—the debates in both Houses of Parliament came out
the next morning—they could not but have publicity, and he,
for one, much preferred full to
thhealfexpeurbeliiaceitoyf. a
wHiesecdoinsseirdectrieodn:
inflicted upon individuals, un-
by the term employed by the Committee of the House of Com-
mons in their Report, that they had bound themselves to take
t o every
prevent
injury m
fromean ,
being
n g
less that injury was so small as to bear no comparison to the
public good. The Bill to that extent he thought ought to be
adopted. But there were some parts of the machinery of the
Bill to which he could not consent ; for instance, why
should an officer of the House of Commons go to an
officer of the Queen's Bench, and without the inter-
ference of any of the Judges of the Court put an
end to an action. Why should such a stigma be thrown
upon the Judges? It was totally undeserved. There was a
part of the Bill to which he could never give his assent—it was
a clause putting an end to actions brought by Mr. Howard for
trespass—the action mightabe,
be, for anything that was known,
totally unconnected with the proceedings of the House, or
why should the officers of either House be protected from pro-
ceedings of excess ? He did not see why Howard should be
deprived of his action any more than a freehold might be taken
from any of their Lordships by the vote of either House of Par-
liament. He did not think that the protection afforded by the
Bill went far enough. The protection ought to extend to every
individual publishing reports or proceedings of the House, in
any newspaper or otherwise ; for every newspaper, news-
vender, or bookseller became an officer of the House for the
purpose of publication, when they disseminated and gave ex-
tensive publicity to their proceedings. If only extracts were
given he should say, submit the case to a Jury, because they
might be made unfairly, but at all events a Jury woulddo justice
between the parties. But if the whole proceeeding on the whole
Report were given, then, in his opinion, they ought to
be protected equally with the publishers of the House. It
struck him that second actions for libel ought to be prevented
in any case where a defendant had justified and succeeded ;
where a jury had found a libel to be true, then the law ought
to say that that was a bar to any further proceedings. He had
entered into those matters in a manner unworthy of their great
importance—(Hear, hear)—but he trusted that he had suc-
ceeded in showing that the Judges had acted conscientiously,
and ought not to be stigmatised as they had been. Their legis-
lation would come to very little if judgments were to be inter-
fered with by supposed privileges, or if the law could not be
carried into execution by fearless and independent Judge.
Lord MELBOURNE said the important subject now under
consideration had been treated in the most becoming manner
by his Noble and Learned Friend, and he trusted that the
same feeling might prevail throughout all their discussion upon
it. Whatever might be their opinion of the proceedings and
transactions, it was impossible for any of their Lordships to feel
otherwise than that the collision between the Courts and the
other House of Parliament was such as called imperiously for
the interference of the Supreme Legislature,in order to settle such
a great, difficult, and, he would add, dangerous question. It was to
be expected that his Noble and Learned Friend, who had borne
so great a share in these transactions, should take that oppor-
tunity of vindicating himself and his brethren ; and he also knew
how delicate a subject a judgment was in that House; but it
was to be remembered that Judges were not infallible—they
were not found to be so in Charles the Second's time on the
great cafe of the Ship-money. That judgment was generally
supposed to be not only constitutionally and theoretically im-
proper, but also legally erroneous. There was no remedy for
that judgment but throxgh Parliament, and he thought th • Par-
'lament right in reversing that judgment, and in taking
care that it should not be acted upon, but he had
always felt that Parliament went a great way - when
they made the Judges criminally liable for their opi-
nions. Judges were sometimes liable to -error and mistake,
and in such a case as the present it became absolutely necessary
to pronounce an opinion on the judgment. He thought it due
to the other Hou.e of Parliament to say, that it. his opinion
its privileges were absolutely necessary for the conduct of
the business of the country—it was the privilege of both
Houses of Parliament, both upon precedent and the reason of
the case. His Noble and Learned Friend had cited
many cases in which the privileges had been abused
—no doubt, so also had the prerogatives of the Crown,
but they had been curtailed—so also would the pri-
vileges of the Parliament if they were pushed too far.
He believed there had been recently no abuse of these privi-
leges, and he quite agreed with his Noble and Learned Friend,
that it was lamentable to see what had been the commence-
ment of that business, and he quite agreed with him that the
insertion of Stockdale's name into the Report twas altogether
unnecessary.—(Hear, hear.) It would have been quite suffi-
cient to say that books of an improper character had been in-
troduced, and stating the title of the book and the name of the
author was entirely superfluous. Still, he must say, that no
great injury had been inflicted—he did not now speak of the
character of the man, for a libel was a libel if it was the most
true statement of the worst man in the community, just as
much as if it was the falsest statement against the highest and
best character. He knew enough of law to tell that, but it
was not a libel in point of reason—( A laugh)—and before they
thought of depriving Parliament of these powers, it should be
shown that there had been some grave abuse of their privileges.
With respect to the Sheriffs, unquestionably no other course
was left them, as the officers of a Court of Law, but to obey
As commands ; but that was the very reason why they should
at once put an end to such a state of things.—( Hear, hear.)
The House of Commons was bound to stand by its privileges ;
.hey could not consistently with their duty give them up, and
although the means at their disposal were very unpopular, they
had no other means of vindicating those privileges which it
was their duty not to surrender. He believed it was Mr.
Burke who on one occasion said that the House of Commons
was the worst body in the world for maintaining a conflict of an
executive character, for they had nothing but their Sergeant-
at-Arms with his mace. It was necessary, however, that the
present state of things should be remedied, and he trusted their
Lordships would go into Committee with the view of putting
an end to a system which was so unpleasant and so dangerous.
The Duke of WELLINGTON entirely concurred with the
Noble Viscount, that the present state of things should be put
on end to. The Noble and Learned Lord (Denman) hail re-
ferred to a censure which was supposed to have been cast upon
the Judges of the Court of Queen's Bench, but in his opinion
one of the merits of the Bill was, that it slid not inflict any cen-
sure, but left the Judges of the Court of Queen's Bench exactly
where it found them. In his opinion, the measure was founded on
the necessity that the two Howes of Parliament should enjoy great
and extensive privileges, that each of them should have the
means of judging of and maintaining its own privileges. It
was obvious, from what had lately occurred, that these means
did not at present exist; and for that reason he was disposed to
vote for the second reading, in order that they might go into
Committee, and render the Bill perfect. He agreed, also, with
the Noble and Learned Lord, that the origin of the present
unfortunate state of things was the resolution of the House of
Commons of 1833, by which their papers and reports might be
sold. They had been printed and published occasionally ; but
before that time they had never been sold by authority. The
Noble and Learned Lord proposed a mode of managing the sale
of those papers, in which he did not entirely agree ; for he
thought the resolution of sale, and sale by authority of the
House, was that which had created the present difficulty.
He regretted that neither the present Bill, nor anything which
bad emanated from the House of Commons, indicated' a wish
to give a security to the public with regard to the sale of these
papers. They might proceed to-morrow with the sale of these
papers, inflicting injury without any remedy to the public :
indeed, in the last Report of the Committee of the House of
Commons on Printed Papers, it was distinctly avowed that not
only was there no security to the public, but that all attempts that
were made to fix a security against libels being published in these
reports had altogether failed. There had been there two cases of
libel—the case of Stockdale, which was decidedly a libel, and
that of the Lord Chief Justice ofehe Common Pleas. He
(the Duke of Wellington) had no objection to the printing and
publishing of these reports, but when it came to a sale of papers
then let the law take its course. The public were materially
interested in its not being understood that the Houses of Parlia-
ment were sellers of libels against individuals. He was one of those
who thought that the great political interests of that country
were best served by avoiding causes of offence against other
nations, and therefore it was that he regretted to see in the
other House of Parliament libellous petitions presented against
the Sovereign of another country. In his opinion these indi-
viduals ought to be answerable for the libels they published.
Under all the circumstances, he hoped that in the Committee
upon the present Bill means would he found of leaving the right
of action for libels published and sold for the House of Com-
mons in the state in which it was by the common law previous
to 1835. The Noble and Learned Lord (Denman) had pro-
posed a mode of effecting that object, but it appeared to him
that that would go to a total alteration of the law of libel. If
come modifications however were not introduced into Commit-
tee, the Bill would not be acceptable to the public.
Lord WYNFORD agreed with the Noble Duke as to the
propriety of going into Committee on the Bill. With regard to
the Sheriffs, they were bound by their oaths to do what they
had done—they had only to look to the Judges for their orders,
anti yet the House of Commons had inflicted on them the pe-
nalty of imprisonment. The making a general return to the
writ had prevented them getting .redress by habeas corpus, but
he hoped that means might he found by which all the facts
connected with their case might be brought before some Court
of Justice, and that a Jury of their country would give them
such redress as they were entitled to,
Viscount GAGE regretted thatehis course had not been
taken earlier, as it was evident that no satisfactory settlement
of this subject could be procured by any other means. He,
therefore, regretted the delay which had occurred. He was
far from objecting to the retrospective nature of the measure,
and regretted the Bill did not afford sufficient redress for the
thesetical v
eprrdio
cc: proceedings.—(Hear, injuries already suffered. He believed the persons most to
blame in these transactions had not been alluded to throughout
the debate. He thought the greatest blame rested upon the
Juries who had the power to arrest the course of
resulted all the evils which hs(vehl -Itch:rut' House
damages was wrong, and he looked upon that verdict as a poll.-
somTehefullritharer
pisrovofisioßnUwTeEs yeolfwr.:re now called nylon
without
The giving such heavy
that
had
privilegesyeneyears
;
medy. He hoped their LordshipsCmwomumldopnass'satnhdefrßornil
curtailing any of its enactments.
the realm the protection to which they were entitled, andel:
the
o
was more than ever called for, from the manner in hi
necessary,gr e a witht theo ,7: Noblethe Duke,
subieethsi that
of
of Commons. Questions were asked of witnesses before Select
Committees which were teeny unnecessary, and the answers
an do fhedid Parliament
not a
p phl aydhbi
his
been
remark exercised
exclusivelyd uri ng
to thwteh
the
a s t
Housef e w
to which involved not only the persons giving the answe_o one
r_s,
other persons also, in the most serious consequences. N
could take up the evidence taken before Select Committ
in
ees
without observing that their Lordships were more careful
striking out names and places than the other House. He
COCommons
mtohnes
souldholdnotof say what made the Houseutitwasirnposs,h of
impossible to
read
evidence taken before. Committees of the House of Commons
of late years without observing this, and this was the more re-
markable as the House of Commons published the names of the
Members asking the questions. When they saw men occupying
liaent
tfhhooreemhe
diugst
oht eces
confess
nsj
wfue des
sire
that
easstittiuho anetsi
tot
nhnoos
us
glta
hsr
eot
ruing° hon ts
ibeforenJ o r that H
sa
to ouse, and
individuals,
ought to be allowed to shelter personspraisvkiliengge questions,thoofsePar
and great blame was attached to the Committee for not having
interfered to prevent their being put.
The LORD CHANCELLOR, in proof that the sale of
their publications hadbeen allowed in former times, would refer
to the Report on tne table, from which it appeared that from
1690 to 1716 the sale of the proceedings had been authorised,
and the price affixed by the House itself; from 1717 to 1729,
the votes and proceedings had likewise been published; from
1729 to 1777 the votes and proceedings had been printed and
sold by Nicholls for the House, and, after the expenses, he had
accounted to the Speaker for the profits, which amounted in
general to about 2411. a-year up to 1772 In 1772 the profit
had diminished in consequence of the publication of the
debates, and in 1779 it had turned the other way, and instead
of a source of profit, had become a loss, when the Speaker
very naturally transferred the account to the Treasury.—(A

laugh.) He mentioned-this to show that the practice of
selling had existed in former times. 'I he papers
now ordered to be printed were subjected to the
superintendence and revision of two Committees—they might
not exercise sufficient vigilance, but still he thought it right to
mention this, in order to show that precaution was exercised in
what was ordered to be printed.
Lord DENMAN said that this was not mentioned when the
ease was brought • before the Court. It had always been well
understood that the House had the power of ordering whatever
it chose to be printed for the use of its own Members ; and it
was contended that they had a right to sell whatever was printed
for the use of the Alembers. He believed the object ought to
be to secure that all papers published should be bona fide, and
published by some responsible authority.
The Bill was then read a second time.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said it was desirable the Bill
should be committed as soon as possible ; the proceedings in the
different cases had been adjournedito the first day of term, which
was Wednesday week ; and if the Bill were not law by that
reriod, one of its objects would be defeated.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said that a Noble and
Learned Friend of his had commissioned him to state that he
was exceedingly desirous of expressing his sentiments on the
Bill before it went into Committee, and he was still so unwell
that he could not be able to attend in his place before Fri-
day. He hoped, therefore, that the Committee would be fixed
for Friday.
The LORD CHANCELLOR was exceedingly desirous of
hearing the sentiments of his Noble and Learned Friend, but
there was this difficulty. that the first day of term was Wednesday
week. Some parties had petitioned to be heard by counsel against
the Bili, and if their Lordships should consent to hear them,
and the Committee should be postponed till Friday, it would be
impossible the Bill could pass before Wednesday. Perhaps
their Lordships would give a stage, pro forma, to-morrow,
and take the debate on the bringing up the Report on Friday.
The Duke of WELLINGTON—Had stated what his Noble
and Learned Friend had desired him to state, that he was
anxious to discuss the principle of the Bill, and that he could not
be well enough to attend before Friday.
Lord REDESDALE then addressed something to the Noble
Duke in a low voice, to which the Noble Duke replied in a loud
tone, at the same time resuming his seat—" No, no, I won't
consent to anything."
The LORD CHANCELLOR—The difficulty is not as to
the adjournment, but it is as to the first day of term.
The Duke of WELLINGTON—The matter is in your
Lordships' hands. If it is decided to go into the Committee
to-morrow I will attend.
The LORD CHANCELLOR hoped, if their Lordships
postponed the Committee to Friday, they would not object to
sit on Saturday, as it would be otherwise impossible to pass the
Bill in time.
Lord ELLENBORO UGH would suggest that the Commit-
tee should be fixed for to-morrow, and the Noble Duke would
in the mean time state to his Noble and Learned Friend the
difficulty in which they were placed, as he might have forgotten
that Wednesday was the first day of term, and to-morrow the
Noble Duke might perhaps be able to state to their Lordships
the result of his determination.
The Duke of WELLINGTON would attend to-morrow and
propose his amendments.
The Bill was ordered to be committed to-morrow, and their
Lordships adjourned at Half-past Nine o'Clock.

CORN-LAWS.

MEETING OF THE RATE-PAYERS OF THE
PARISH OF ST. MARI LEBONE.
A public meeting of the Rate-payers of the parish of S
Marylehone was held yesterday at the Workhouse, New-road,
" for the purpose of taking into consideration the expediency
of petitioning Parliament for a total repeal of the Corn-laws,
and to consider the present position of the question." The
meeting was convened for one o'clock, but the proceedings did
not commence till a few minutes after two. Among the gen-
tlemen on the platform we noticed Lord Nugent, Sir Benjamin
Hall, M.P., Mr. Walker, Delegate from Manchester, and
Messrs. S. Smith and Greg, the Anti-Corn-law Lecturers, &c.
The crowd consisted of about 400 persons, among whom was a
strong body of Chartists.
After some preliminary discussion Lord Nugent was moved
to the Chair.--(Sheers and uproar. )
The NOBLE CHAIRMAN proceeded to state the objects of the
meeting. They had met to discuss with firmness, and he hoped
he might add, with fairness and moderation, one of the most
important questions which could occupy the attention of the
country.—(Cries of " No, no," and " Yes, yes.") He had
always considered it the most important of questions next to that
of a full, fair, and free representation of the people. He had en-
tertained that view of the matter ever since the memorable
protest of Lord Grenville and Earl Grey, which exposed the
fallacy of the existing system, and which protested against its
injustice and inhumanity. He had held that opinion through
all the changes of the sliding scale, and all those proceedings
which had given to injustice the force and sanction of law.—
( Hear, hear.)
A shower of rain now began to fall, and as the meeting was
held in the open air, a great number proposed to adjourn to
some other place. The rain, however, soon ceased, and
amidst a scene of great confusion the proceedings were again
resumed.
The CHAIRMAN proceeded to say, that the question before
the meeting was one which concerned every party in the state.
He should say, in behalf of every interest in the country—on
behalf of trade, which languishes under high prices—on behalf of
commerce, which cannot flourish without a free intercourse with
other nations—on behalf of the manufacturing artisan and the agri-
cultural labourer, who could not thrive under a system of mo-
nepoly—on behalf of the producer, and of the consumer, he
should say, repeal the Corn-laws.—(Cheers.) He should
conclude by leaving the resolutions to the decision of the meet -
ing, and by begging them to give an impartial hearing to every
party who might address them.
Mr. PRITCHARD proposed the first resolution, which he
would content himself with merely submitting to the decision of
the meeting. 'I he resolution was as follows :—" That in the
opinion of the meeting a total repeal of the existing Corn laws
is expedient."
Mr. S. SMITH, who was received with cheers, came forward
to second the motion, urging on the meeting many considera-
tions which would render a repeal of the Corn-laws desirable
and beneficial.
Mr. Fartneew came forward to move an amendment to the
resolution. He thought the present agitation had been got up
to delude the people. It was an agitation by which they could
never be benefited, as any measure for repealing the existing
laws could never pass in a House of Commons as at present con-
stituted. He complained of the proceedings of the Vestry,
who on a former occasion had refused to convene a meeting for
the purpose of taking into consideration the case of Frost, Wil-
liams, and Jones. He would take the opportunity of moving
as an amendment to the resolution before them—" That in the
opinion of the meeting the vindication of the laws is of more im-
mediate importance to the liberty of the people than a repeal of
the Corn-laws, and that this meeting view the transportation
of Frost, Williams anti Jones, in defiance of the law, as an act
which demands the strenuous exertion of every honest man to
protect men from being convicted on a trial essentially bad and
illegal, by which a precedent would be established fraught with
imminent danger to the liberties of the people."
Mr. WALL, a young working boy, came forward to second
the amendment.
The NOBLE CHAIRMAN put it to the meeting if Mr. Wall
should be heard, when there appeared a large majority for
hearing him.
Mr.' WALT, proceeded amidst the loud cheers of the Chartist
part of the meeting, and the opposition of the other parties
composing it, to state that the people were not interested in the
agitation for the repeal of the Corn-laws. The speaker con-
tinued to address the meeting for a considerable time for the
purpose of discountenancing a union between the Chartists and
manufacturers on the subject under their consideration.
The CHAIRMAN refused to put the amendment, as it im-
peached the proceedings of a Judge and a Jury, and the meet-
ing was of opinion that the amendment should not be put.
Mr. GREEN then moved as an amendment that the meeting
should adjourn.
Mr. SMITH seconded the amendment.
Sir 13. HALL then came forward to address the meeting, but
in consequence of the opposition of the Chartists was unable to
obtain a lieving.
The amendment was then put and negatived.
Mr. YOUNGE proposed the second resolution, " That the de-
cision of the Honse on Commons on Mr. Villiers' motion in
the Session of 1839, and the suppression of a full and complete
discussion of the Corn-laws in the present session of Parliament,
proves the excessive preponderance of the landed interest in that
House, and imperatively calls for such further extension of the
suffrage as will secure a full, fair, and efficient representation
of the people."
Mr. SODEN seconded the resolution.
A boy of the name of Osten. came forward to move an
amendment to the resolution in favour of the present Corn-
laws, which was not put to the meeting.
The resolution was then put and carried with only one dissen-
tient.
Mr. COCHRANE proposed the third resolution—" That an
Anti- Corn. law Committee be formed in the parish of St Mary-
lebone, with full power to adopt measures for a total abolition
of the existing Corn-laws."
Mr. SouxN seconded the resolution.
The resolution was put and carried ; and it was agreed that
the Committee should consist of 19 persons, who should have
power to add to their number.
Sir B. HALL again presented himself to the meeting; but,
in consequence of the continued uproar of the Chartists present,
the Hon. Gentleman during his address was entirely inaudible.
Mr. NELMS proposed the fourth resolution—" That a peti-
tion, founded on the resolutions this day passed, be presented
to the House of Commons by Sir Benjamin Hall, Member of
Parliament."
Mr. Hone seconded the resolution.
The resolution was carried.
A vote of thanks was then passed to Lord Nugent for his
conduct in the chair, and the meeting separated.

THE QUEEN V. FEARGUS O'CONNOR.—
At the Liverpool Assizes, on Thursday, Mr. Watson applied
to Mr. Justice Coleridge to postpone this trial, which is an in-
dictment for sedition, until the next Summer Assizes, on the
ground of the absence of a material witness. Mr. Wightman,
who conducted the prosecution, did not oppose the application,
and his Lordship accordingly acceded to it.
Mlt• BENNETTS LECTURES.—On Friday
evening Mr. Bennett delivered the third and last of a series of
lectures on Oratory and the Drama, at the Mechanics' Institu-
tion, Chancery-lane. He commenced with some observations
on the scene in Macbeth in which the Weird Sisters perform
their incantations ; and he showed how (by altering the present
mode of representing this play) much might be added to the
scenic effect, and at the same time more fully illustrate the
poet's views. He enumerated the ingredients which arc sup-
posed to be put into the cauldron by the witches, and gave ex-
tracts from Greek and Latin authors (amongst which he intro-
duced the writings of Albertus and Olaus Magnus) to show that
in the ages in which those writers lived witches were supposed
to possess supernatural power, and they speak of the actual in-
gredients made use of. In the sleeping scene. where Lady
Macbeth shows the horrors of a guilty conscience, the Lecturer
displayed an accurate knowledge of the human mind by the able
contrast which he drew between the somnambulism of guilt and of
innocence; and in pourtraying the character of Macbeth, he
read a severe lecture on that ambition which is unrestrained by
religion or morality; but, in justification of the character of
Macbeth, he pointed out his just laws, his martial cha-
racter, his wisdom in the council, and his valour in the field.
At the conclusion of his lecture Mr. Bennett was greeted with
the loud applause of a very numerous and respectable audience.
The Earl of Minto held a Levee on Saturday,
at the Admiralty, at twelve o'clock. The Noble Lord will
continue his Levees every Saturday, at the same hour, till fur-
ther notice.
COAL PIT EXPLOSION.—It is our unpleasant
duty to record another of these direful events which occurred
on Monday week, at Willington Colliery, by which nine indi-
viduals were ses
.:rely burnt, two of whom have since died. It
is fact much to be lamented, that so many human beings
should yearly fall victims to such accidents; and that more
effeaual means are not used to check such frequent, dread-
ful, and alarming occurrences. The life of a human
being, under all possible circumstances, is always valuable, and
demands the utmost protection, and no one drops especially
into a premature grave, without having man} friends to whom
he was dear, to bewail and lament his loss. This is true with
regard to all classes ; and in none are the social and sympa-
thetic feelings more developed than in the labouring classes,
amongst whom those serious accidents aro solely confined.
We, therefore, hope this accident will arouse the serious atten-
tion of the feeling and humane.—Northern Liberator.