The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-13 00:00:00

EVENING EDITIO)N

he would ask if their actual annual loss had amount ad to any-
, thing like that surn?—; Hear, hear.) If any I ion. Merr
be were prepared to maintain that position, he mu st do so in
„Contradiction to. all the returns which had bee• laid be fore
hat'House.—(Cheers.) What had been the c onduct c,f the
West India interest? Had they endeavovouree. even to raise
• productions by means of free labour, so as to enter into reompe-
, Aition with slave labour? They had dom.: no such. thing.
,They had always preferred lazily trusting to. party interests in
that House to exerting themselves in their own islands. What
had been the first thing they had done art er the emancipation ?
`*.,Their first was to import the Hill Coolies from the East In_
,
dihs but they had managed that procr.,edinr.r, so badly as 'en re-
tard for many years the introduction of free lab•mn.rs into
-those colonies. Great facilities mould be affor.ied for the
emigration of labourers to the West Indies. Tho position in
'which they had placed those islands was a false one. The con-
dition of the labourer had been raised above that, of the mid-
* 'tiling classes in many countries. If they could rot be induced,
he (Mr. V. Smith) would not compel them work; but he
did contend that they ought to allow free t...ade in labour all
over the world, and that rivalry wo,ild be most beneficial both
'to tho colonies and the mother country. It might be said en
the other side, if the negroes were in such an excellent eon-
, dition, why alter that condition by the introduction of foreign
sugar? His object was to put them in a fair condition.
There was a state of thirv3s arising in the West Indies,
Which, if not checked, would supersede the planters
in their proprietary -rights. Tho labourers were now
gradually acquiring t ,roperty themselves ; and, if they did not
do something to in,p,ress upon diem the necessity of labour, they
would see set all ownipancies and tenancies in all directions, and
the most vicious state of property that ever existed. There
was no set of men in the world who had displayed more apti-
' tude and ingenuity than the negroes ; and in all their sufferings
they had shiewn no disposition 'o revolt, but had borne, with
patience, all their hardships. They had borne rthperity with-
out exultation. They had reason to expect from these people
that they world see the dilemma in which they were placed, and
would know that, if they did not consent to labour for the
planters, they would be superseded by slave labour. And the
. People of this country had a perfect right to call upon them to
exert themselves in their behalf, as they had exerted them-
selves for their negro brethren.—( Hear, hear.) It had been
frequently said, in the course of that debate, that the opening
of fresh markets must increase the demand for slave-labour.
They had to choose between two very great evils—the distressed
condition of their own population, and the chance of creating some
distress to the negro population.—( Hear, hear.) They had
no direct power over the negro population of other countries,
and he begged to ask Hon. Gentlemen opposite whether they
Were more likely to gain the votesof the Brazilian Congress by
exclusive dealing, or by free commercial intercourse ? That
was their position. If they refused to have any traffic with
them, they were throwing away the means of doing a great
rod with much uncertainty as to whether they were doing
any good at all. Niir could he agree with the statement made
to the House, that exclusive dealing was the only mode of sup-
ressing the slave-trade. His Noble .Friend (Lord Howick)
ad referred to the, successful exertions of Captain Denman
With regard to this traffic, and every day brought information
of a similar kind. He had recently received a communication
from Captain Tucker, who was stationed on the coast of Africa,
stating that by blockading the mouths of the rivers, he would
soon be able to put an end to the slave-trade. The plan
'Which had been adopted for the civilisation of Africa, might tend
greatly toproduce the same result. He had already stated that be
should not enter into the larger question of free trade ; but he
Must say that he was never more rejoiced than he had been
at the introduction of these measures by his Right Hon.
Friend, because he conceived that they were then starting
upon great principles, which must be the subject of discourse
e
many -years to come.—( Hear, hear, and cheers from the
Tory bernehes.) He hoped that the House understood the
meaning of the cheer, as he meant to elicit it by what he had
stated. He was prepared to support any Ministry which
Would bring forward measures similar to those that had been
Propounded to the House by his Right Hon. Friend. On the
question of the Corn-laws he would not now dwell, but he
would merely say, in conclusion, that he was prepared to
Support the resolution that had been proposed on the subject.
Lord STANLEY then rose, among some cheering, and
said, that although he was well aware at this period of the
nights and after so many nights' discussion, it was little likely
that he, or any one, could add much that was inte.esting.
Yet, considering the prominent part he had taken upon this
• questions he felt bound to trouble the House with stating, as
shortly as he could, the grounds upon which he gave his con-
currence, to the amendment of his Noble Friend, the Member
for Liverpool, and would vote against the plan brought for- °Lard by the Chancellor of the Exchequer.—( Hear, hear.)
L'ie used the words, " the plan of the Chancellor of the Excise-
' quer," because his Hon. Friend, the Member for Halifax, last
night had stated that the subject they had to discuss was same
hew mode of carrying on the commercial concerns of the eoun •
trY- The Hon. Member for Carlow, who had spoken in the early
Part of the evening, had saidthat they, enthat side of the House,
not, venturing to meet the proposition in front; they were
Mooting it by what the lawyers would call ademurrer. Now,
all due deference to the Hon. Member for Carlow, he
thought they could not have taken a more direct course. Her
Majesty's latinisters propounded what they called a Budget to
the House—that Budget was to provide for the deficencies
to the revenue, with the exception of a small sum of 700,0001.,
,itui upon the question of going into Committee of the first
ailancial part of the proposition, by which this amount was to
,be made up, his Noble Friend the Member for Liverpool
had told hint, in direct terms, that he would not go into Com-
Mittee, and assigned his ground upon the resolution of what he
intended to do. The Hon. Member for Halifax stated that the
real question they had to discuss was how the commercial relations
of this country could be best carried on. Now, with all due
subnsission to the Horn Member, he would contend that that
Was not the question for their decision that night. Tho ques-
tion for the decision of the House was, would, or would they. '
not, assent to the proposition of the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, with the view of lowering the duties on foreign sugar,
for the purpose of raising the 700,000/. which would be defi-
cient in the revenue. He (Lord Stanley) did not object to
what had been stated by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that
this was only part gf his plan, that he intended to include the
timber duties, and the corn duties, and so on, and that they
Must all hang or fall together ; but what he complained
~ of was, that the House had been kept in the dark as to
'whit the plan really was. He thought that the Government
• 8:11:.MI'l have gone one step further, and told the House what
,I:lee`e plan really was. The Hon. Gentleman the Member
ik?Tlualifatt • had told them that the principle was free trade.
Huw, they 'had not heard a word either from that side of the
Pu'e otehe other, except from the Hon. Member for the
Citythat London, who advocated the principles of free trade on
tet subject. if he (Lord Stanley) understood those principles.
,LeY were, that you should buy at the cheapest market ; that
'ere should.be no restrictive duties, butthat when duties were
ressary to be imposed, they should be as light as possible.
charge
to assert the principle. more broadly, it would be to
-w" nothing upon those articles of primary necessity and
general consumption. Now, if these were the doctrines of free
what approach, he would ask, was made to them in the
Present proposition ear hear. )In free trade there was
question betweenmonopoly on the one hand and restriction
41st the other. A Noble Lord in that House, and a Noble Lord
t"" the other, a Member of the Government, had stated that the
,object of the Government was protection—protection and not
'refs trade- proteetion and not prohibition, was the principle
kiwhich that side of the House was prepared to concur.
°w, he would ask, could the Government stand forward as
'orates ate% of free trade, and brio forward these measures with
'Peet to timber, corn, and s g
ugar ? The Noble Lord said he was
:7:free trader in timber, but what did he do, why he kept up the
(Hfree duties between Canadian and Baltic timber.—
ear, hear.) He admitted sacrificing free trade for the pur-
Z"es cf revenue ; and such being the case how, he would ask,
uht he claim for himself and the Government that they
...ee the advocates of free trade ?—( Hear, hear. )
ge would now take the article of sugar. The Noble Lord,
With his principles of free trade, had stated that he was anxious _
abolish all the burdens that pressed upon the people, and to
„largely the lightest duties upon the articles which entered most
to effect
into general consumption. The Noble Lord proposed
`" effect a reduction of six-tenths of a farthing in the pound
;In sugar, but he left on the whole of the duty on British and
ddor,eign sugar, and for.the purposes of revenue he imposes a
uty of 100 per cent. beyond the value of the artiele.—( Hear,
Peel • ) The Noble Lord might be right, and he might be corn-
the circumstances by the circumstances in which the finances of the
country were placed to do so; but when he taked of the prin-
' tiPles of free trade, and that his plans were to astonish all
tneceeding times, as they eclipsed all former Governments,
must say that the taxation which he did not reduce de- i
tPrived him of the character of a friend to free trade.—
ilear, hear.) His Right Hon. Friend, the President of the
Gard of Trade, had stated that they were proceeding on the
Principles of Mr. Huskisson. He (Lord Stanley) had for
, !eine short time acted in confidential communication with the
tate Mr. Huskisson, and he looked to his authority with as
~',,.‘sineere respect as any Gentleman on the other side of the
.House. But what were the doctrines of Mr. Huskisson? Were
°they the doctrines of free trade on the one hand, or of mono-
,; Poly on the other ? They were neither the one nor the other
."--they -were the doctrines of common sense—( Hear, and
rhoers)—they were the doctrine of competition, checked, and
limited, and regulated by protection--( Hear, hear.) He
was. happy to receive these cheers from the other side of
thh House, because he was endeavouring to establish
,:that what they were now to discuss was not some
',hens principle—that there was no broad line of de-
. nhireation which it was impossible to pass between Hon.
Gentlemen on the one side and the other.—(Hear.) He re-
`.lltettted, that he adopted the principles of Mr. Huskisson to the
landst.fttent—namely, that protection should be substituted
'toaohibition; and he was ready to go further, and state, as a
reial maxim, that that protection should be limited to
minimum amount vihieh, giving reasonable and fair eneou-
ragenient to their own producers, should admit the competition
• of foreign parties, and be a check upon them.—( Hear, hear. )
Now then, as they were agreed upon the principle, but the di-
filculty was, to ascertain the point at which protection became
Isiesibition. It was a matter of principle to ascertain the point
"it which protection merged in prohibition on the one side, or
'dwindled away and became no protection on the other. It ap-
:,.Piared to him that that was no question to divide Gentlemen
on" the one side from the other, because it was a
I.ctstion' upon which each case must stand upon
~:site Own basis, and upon all the circumstances
which in this highly artificial state naturally and necessarily
attended it-4 Hear, hear.) Now with regard to the protec-
tton be given to the manufacturer and the agriculturist.
te thought it was manifest to the House, that the question must
'oe considered at all events with reference to the different
.cir-
cumstanceslt in which they were placed. The manufacturer
d the power of selecting his own locality, of applying his
caPital in that part of the country in which from various eircum-
stahees his trade found itself most advantageously situated, and
could be most economically worked. That manufacture lie
could extend to an indefinite amount within the locality, limited
!my by the power of production and thepower of consumption;
the
anth respect to articles in which machinery entered into
La? :manufacture more than human labour, he could
tciallealate with great precision the prime cost of
meet the
and upon what terms he could
the foreign manufacturer in the market: With the
dsglienyural_ produce the case was much more complicated and
„"neult. His labour was spread over the whole surface cf the
t•tioifteiruttry, and was subject to the influence of various soils and
cut degrees of fertility, which he could not forsake or
_alter. He was dependent, or nearly altogether so, upon
manual labour, and after he had expended all his powers—
after lie had applied his best skill and art—after he con-
sulted the means of draining his lands, and devised the most
e9tf tual rotation of his crops, made the best selection of his
Z,,d. and cultivated his land with unremitting diligence,
is was not in his own hands but that of a higher
power than his.—(Hear, hear, hear.) The sun and the
'al", the • andthe wind
atmosphere, those temperatures which the mar' nfacture
.7•41 the power of creating for himself, and adapting
to the pin-
culiar fabric which he intended to produce, and which was es-
,aential_.to. its due production. These were not under the con-
trol
• Atic,__°l.he agriculturist, and thence a greater uncertainty and
ito motion upon the prime cost of whatever skill, labour, and
ag. "rig:trY he applied to the production ; and in applying to' th
ulturist the same principles that were applied to the menu-
e
littnrer
s they must make an allowance for the alternation of
'afar the different circumstances under which he
clled
,t and, upon to compete with foreign rivalry,
' iuvrhich' they could only take an average of seasons,
etaprisso\rtio,..ni.ng the protection to be afforded to him.— (Loud
.04; isle question was a very complicated and abstruse
d,,,taiTßl he did not pretend to be deeply skilled in the practical
howevse?f the working of the system. He knew enough of it,
44aht rt° know that it,.was a complieated and difficult one,
erabled when he reflected upon the circumspection
necessary in approaching such a subject. Bet admit.

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