The Sun.
London, England, 1823-03-04 00:00:00

PARLIAMENT,

HOUSE OF LORDS, MAncli 3.
AGNEW V. LORD STAIR AND OTHERS.
The LORD CHANCELLOR decided that the above appeal
which we mentioned in our report of Friday, cannot be re-
heard. The Judgment of the House of Lords was conclusive,
unless it appeared that Important evidence had been withheld
which might have produced a different result. The Noble and
Learned Lord deferred his opinion upon other points, which
called for his consideration, until Wednesday.
Mr. To at ttris, fromjthe Treasury, delivered copies of Papers
relating to the Exchequer of Ireland.—Laid on the table.
INSOLVENT DEBTORS' ACT.
The Earl of COVENTRY presented a petition f the
Inhabitants of the Borough of Tewkesbury, praying form re-
peal of the Insolvent Debtors' Act: -
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY presented similar petition,
from the Bankers, Merchants, and Inhabitants of Leicester.
The Same Noble Lord presented a petition front the Brothers
and Sisters of the Royalflorrpital of St. Catherine, Tower of
London, praying for a repeal of thelrrarizige Act—The'above
were read and laid on the table.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY moved that the 10th llth,
and 12th Reports of the 'Commissioners appointed toinquire
into the Fees and Emoluments of Coufts of Justice in Scotland
be printed.—Ordered.
The Earl of DARNLEY delivered a petitton from the Mer-
chants and Traders of Kingston-upon-Hull against the Insol-
vent Debtors' Act —Laid on the table.

STATIONARY IN
hIEA
Earl DARNLEY, adverting to what e considered an MA Job, observed, that it fell under his inquiry three years since,
and the result had proved that the attention of Parliament had
not been directed to the subject in vain. it appeared by the
documents on the table of the House, that the Irish Govern-
ment had been defrauded of a considerable sum by the indivi-
dual who held the patent right of supplying stationary. Whe-
ther the charge against that person was right or wrong, it was
clear the Public had sustained a loss, and it u-as lint just that
reparation should be made. It appeared that during last year
correspondence took place. between Alderman King, the Pa-
tentee, and the Irish Government. On the 11th of May a letter
was written by Mr. Goulburn, stating, that unless the Patentee
complied with terms proposed on. the 20th of April, measures
would be taken to enforce a proper reply. He understood
from the Noble Farl (Liverpool), that the terms 'proposed had
been acquiesced in ; and wishing to know what the terms were,
he should move—" There be laid before the House Copies of
the Agreement between the Irish Government and Sir A. 11.
King, respecting the Supply of Stationery made in Jul 1822,
Also, au Account of all Stationery furnished the Irish Govern-'
mcnt during the last ten years, distinguishing the amount in
each year."—The Noble Earl drew the recollection of the
House to his Majesty's visit to Ireland, and to the honour con-
toned on the Lord Mayor of Dublin. The spirit of reconcilia-
tion which it was the wish of his Majesty to support appeared
to have. peen abandoned, and it was his intention, when the af-
fairs of Ireland came before the house, to bring the present
party feelings under discussion.
The Motion was agreed to.—Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
M ISCELLANEOUS: •
Mr. LAWLEY presented a petition from the Mayor and
Corporation of Stockton against the Insolvent Debtors' Act.
—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. MANSFIELD presented a petition to the same effect,
from the Merchants, Bankers, and Traders of Leicester. Or-
dered to be printed.
Mr. CURWEN presented a petition from certain Wool-
growers in the county of Cumberland, against the Irish Pro.
tecting Duties. Also a petition from the Farmers and Land-
owners of the county of Cumberland against the General Turn-
pike Act. Both petitions were ortierd to be printed.
Coloner PALMER presented a petition from the Parish of
St. Michael's, Bath, praying a repeal of the Assessed Taxes.
Ordered to be Printed.
.Mr. PLUNKEI'T presented a_petition from the Inhabitants
of Dublin, complaining of the Local Taxes in that City.—
They stated that they had derived great advantages from the.
Select 'committee appointed to inquire into the subject, and
prayed further relief.
GRA'r TAN bore testimony to the respectability of' the
petitionanteders, and expressed his hope that their prayer would be
gr.
Sir G. NOPIL presented a, petition, professing to be from
Olive Princess of Cumberland, stating that she was incarce-
rated in the King's Bench Prison, and sufferinggreat distress.
It set forth the claims she has so often put forward to the rank
of Itoyity, and to the sum of 15,0001. said to be beqeathed to
her by his late Majesty, and prayed the interference of the
Iloutte.—Ordered to lie upon the table.
Mr. SYKES presented a petition from Hull; against the In.
solvent Debtors's Bill.—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. CURTEIS presented a petition from certain Hop-
growers in the County of Sussex, praying for a repeal of the
lop Duty.
Mr. Alderman WOOD said, it was understood that the
Chancellor of the Exchequer did not intend to take off this duty.
He thought the duty on beer should be reduced in preference.
The lion. Member complained of having been mistaken in
'What he said on a former occasion upon the subject of reduc-
thin upon malt or beer. He was reported to have said the duty
should be taken off malt, whereas he had in fact said beer. He
had heard that the Chancellor of the Exchequer intended pro-
posing a measure for the relief of the poor, which he thought
would not produce that effect.
Mr. LITTLETON said, he thought the plan of the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer would be most advantageous to the
poor, and also a source of relief to the farmers; and that parti.
cularly if he would adopt the recommendation of an lion, and
Learned Gentleman as to permitting the retail of beer.
After a few words from Mr. G. BENNET, Mr. LITTLE-
TON, and Mr. CUUTEIS, the petition was ordered to be
printed.
Mr. WILLOUGHBY presented a petition from Newark.
upon-Trent, against the Insolvent Debtors' Act.—Ordered to
be printed.

MARRIAGE ACT.
The Marriage Act Amendment Bill was read a second time,
and ordered to be committed to-morrow.

SCOTTISH CREDITORS' BILL.
The Scattish Creditors' Bill went through a Committee._
Report to-morrow. -
ANNUAL DUTIES BILL.

The Annual Duties Bill wax read a third time and passed.
EXCHEQUER BILLS BILL.
The Exchequer Bills Bill for 20,000,0001. was read a third
time and passed.
TRANSFER OF AIDS BILL

read a third-time and passed.
The Transivfert;ol4l7BA.AidNllKilliliiisit
PENITENTIARY,
Mr. G. BENNET rose to ask a question of the Right Hon.
the Secretary of State for the Hoene Department, relatti,e to
the state of Prisons. Ile had the misfortune to find, a few days
ago,
on
visiting, the Penitentiary, that it was in an unusual
state of sickness. Ile had also seen a paragraph in the papers,
purporting to be a verdict of the Coroner's Jury, stating, that
a prisoner's death had been hastened by a want of proper food.
lie meant to say nothing in censure of that establishment, as
he could bear testimony to its being managed with the greatest
zeal and attention. Therefore, in what he was going to state,
he should imply no censure. But be,had found that the num-
bet of sick was now l2i1; and the number of prisoners about 800.
This proportion of sick was much greater than usual; and he
Was
:desirous that a Parliamentary investigation should take
place as to the state of the prison. fit repeated that his only
motive was the wish of inquiry, and not that of attaching
blame to any quarter. He desired to ask, therefore, what
were the intentions of Ooverninent, and expected no tippet'.
tion, when he moved, as a matter of form, for a copy of the
Inquest taken before a Coroner's Jury, upon the body of
Ilumphry Adams, a prisoner, who lately died in the Peniten-
tiary at Milbank.
Mr. Secretary PEI L. said, that the best way of meeting the
Hon. Gentleman's motion would be to first put him in posses-
Mon of the facts to which it related. The usual number of
prisoners in the Penitentiary was from seven to eight hundred ;
and the average amount of the sick from forty to fifty. Now,
unfortunately it was true, the sick were ono hundred and thirty
in number. Out of that number three-fourths were affected
with a disease which had found its way hvto the Prison, called
sea scurvy, the symptoms of which resembled those of scorbu-
tic complaints. This disease first broke out in Januarj', and
since that period five prisoners hod died of it. Upon one of

these, the case alluded to by . the llonottrable Member a Co.
toner's Jury had sae, and returned a verdict of " -Died ,by the
Visitation of God:" and the Jury added, very properly, a
statement of their opinion, that the death of the deceased had
been hastened by his not having had a sufficient quantity of
meat. These cucurnstances lied excited his earnest attention;
and he had frequently conferred with the foreman upon them.
He had given orders that no expence should be spared to re-
move whatever causes might reasonably be supposed to have
produced this disease; and it had been decided, that in addl.
tion to the usual medical attendance, that of two eminent Phy-
sicians should be ordered. He had no diffichity in naming the
individuals; they were Dr. Roget and Dr. Latham, who had
been ordered to attend rugularly every day for a fortnklit, and
then to report their opinions. Whatever Information they gave
should be freely communicated to the House, and he tbercfbre
thought that for the present no benefit could arise from the
motion proposed by-the Hon. Member.
• After a few words from Mr. RENNET and Mr. nor—
FORD, the motion was withdrawn.
SUPPLY—WAYS AND MEANS.
The CoMmittees of Supply, and of Ways and Means, were
postponed to Wednesday.
Mr. S. RICE presented a Petition from the Tanners of
Limerick against the Leather Tax.es-Laid, on the table.
ORANGE SOCIETIES.
Mr. PI.UNKETT said; he had a few observations to make,
which he feared might extend beyond the limits within which
.'Members were usually confined upon occasions like the pre.
sent. The remarks he waif about to make were upon a motion
which had been given notice of by an Eton. Friend of his oppo.
site (Mr. Abercromby) for to-morrow. That motion referred
to the existence of certain Secret Societies in Ireland, tied
particularly of - those denominated Orange Societies ; a sub-
ject of very considerable importance, and one naturally cal-
culated to excite the attention of the House and of the public.
It would therefore be very unreasonable in a person to suppose,
that any motives, personal to himself, should have weight in
inducing the postponement of such a question ; and he cer-
tainly should not himself, upon such considerations only, take
the liberty of making the suggestion he was now about- to
make to his Honourable and Learned Friend. But if he could
Rhea that the measure to which lie alluded would involve any
degree of injustice, not only to, himself, but to the Irish Go-
vernment generally, he was sure such an appeal would be pro-
perly felt by his Hon. and Learned Friend ;--he wax sure
such an appeal would not be made to him without producing
its due effect. The intended motion, if he understood its
bearings, must have relation to the recent transactions in
Dublin. He had not beers able to understand whether it was
intended to propose inquiry, or any defined line of conduct to
the House. But lie supposed the object was not so much to,
develope the particular constitutions of those bodies or socie-
ties,
as to shew their connexion with the recent transactions '
to which lie had alluded. His Honourable Friend was
aware that a motion already stood for the lath of April, which •
related to the recent conduct of the Government of Ireland,
which would divide itself into two propositions. One of these
would be the legality, or, as sonic said, the constitionality of
the measures adopted by the Government.; and the next, if
those measures should be decided as legal ones--whether the
conduct of the Irish GoVernment had been proper and justifi-
able in adopting them. The House could not be ignorant that
those proceedings had reference to the dressing the Statue,
and to the outrage, or alleged outrage, which took lace at the
Dublin Theatre. Now it was quite impossible for him,_ for he
was thrown on his defence by the motion of the Hon. Member
for Armagh—it was impossible for him to enter into a vindica.
tion of himself without stating to the douse all the bearings of.
these matters as they presented themselves to his mind, with
respect to the situation of the Noble Personage at the head of
the Government, and still more particularly as regarded their
probable effect upon the general peace and tranquillity of Ire-
land. He would put it to his Hon. and Learned Friend, whe-
ther his motion would not, in the course of debate, involve all
the transactions of which he had spoken. It appeared to him,
therefore, as being rather unprecedented that the Irish Govern-
meat should first be put upon their defence to-morrow, and
then take their trial on the lath cif April. Ile knew that his
Hon. and Learned Friend might not wish to involve thew sub-
jects; but what was to prevent any one from getting up and
saying that there never was a time when there was so much
reason given for the acts of these societies, as when they were'
persecuted by the Government. He should then be compelled
to sit the silent spectator of such attacks upon his own personal
conduct, and upon the whole Government of Ireland.
Mr. ABERCROMIiY said it was not his intention to follow
his Right Honourable Friend through all the observation, be
had thought proper to make.--(Hear, bear!) --He was, Indeed,
exceedingly surprised at the grounds upon which he had been
asked to put off his motion. It was nut his intention to
introduce in his motion, one word upon the subject which
his Right Honourable Friend had called recent transactions
in Dublin. Consistently with the opinions be had expressed
at an early period of the Session, as to the nature of Orange
Societies, he had been advised by friends, hi whose judgment
and confidence he relied, to. bring forward the measure, of
which be had given notice. And his object was to trace the
origin, progress, •and general condition of those bodies, and
to endeavour tei induce the House to consider them as a part of
the general systein of Government in Ireland,-.-he did not, of
course, mean to alitide to individuals—but to call upon the
House to express an opinion of' the general conduct of the Irish
Goverument in connection with them. lie considered the
question which he Shotild have the honour to introduce to be as
distinctly oppoSite to the case of his Right Hon. Friend as pos.
Bible. In fact, he-had understood it to be the impression on all,
that his motion would rather assist that case than otherwise.—
He was, therefore, surprised,- when he had this clear and dis-
tinct object in. hi mind, that his Right Hon. Friend should
have made such att appeal .to him. Ile did not at all see the
objections which had been stated; but if it would be a personal
convenience to his Right Hon. Friend, he would give way.—
Knowing, however, that many persons had remained in this
country on account of the motion, and that his /tight Hon.
Friend's request had been Made on behalf of others, he did not
'feel at liberty to accede to it.
Mr. C. II U'PCIIINSON said, there was a motion of' the
Hon. Member for Aberdeen, which had precedence of that of
the llonatirable and Leashed Gentleman, and suggested that it
should be withdrawn. ;
.31r. HUME assented.
Mr. PLUNKETT rose simply for the purpose of assuring
him JIM: and Learned Friend, that if he imagined his motion
to have left-in-his mind any impression that it was hostile to
him, he was never so mistaken quite the reverse.
Mi. A BERCROM It Y wished to ask the lion. Member for
Sandwich, whether it was his intention to wave his. motion for
10-morrow night? If not he must postpone his own to Wed-
nesday.
Mr. IVIARRYATT said, he should be most happy to con.
ply with the lion. and Learned Gentleman's request; but he
did not suppose that his motion would occupy so much time 44
to interfere with that of the Hon. and Learned Member. The
commercial interests would suffer from delay, and the measure
had already been put off' twice.
lllr. ABERCILOMBY.—"Then I postpone my notice to
Wednesday."
Mr. HUME.—" I give notice that 1 shall persist in my mo.
Lion to-morrow."
The SPEAKER.—" Order, order. As it is not withdrawn
of-course the Hon. M ,ember's motion will have precedence."
EAST INDIA SUGAR.
Mr. WHITMORE, in presenting a petition from a number
of merchants and agents, calling for an equalization of the du-
ties on *Ewa and West India Sugars, took occasion to ask,
whether it was the intention of his Majesty's Ministers to ap-
point a Committee to inquire into the whole of that important
subject ? A pledge to that; effect had, he understood, been
given in the last Session of Parliament.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the
Hon. Gentleman had asked for a greater degree of explanation
than he was prepared to give at the present moment. Accord-
ing to the understanding he had of the pledge which was said
to hale been given in the course of last year, he did not think
that it went to the appointment of a Committee to inquire into
the whole of this subject, but only to this extent—that, where•
as the Act of last Session, which was passed for a short period
only, and related to an additional duty on East India Sar,
had met with considerable opposition, no proposition should be
made with respect to the continuance of that Act, until a Com-
mittee was appointed to inquire into it.
Mr. HUME said, the Bill had been opposed on account of
the additional duty of 'ls. which it imposed on, each °wt. of
East India .Sugar ; and to prevent the continuance of that op.
position, the late Chancellor of the Exchequer certainly did
state, at least to his understanding, that, as the Bill was only
for one year, and as a Coottnittee would be appointed in the
next :Session to consider the whole question of East and West
India Sugar, it was hardly worth while to interrupt its progress.

Several Gentlemen did, in consequence 'of this pledge, wave
their opposition to the Bill •
Mn ti. FORBES also expressed his conviction • that such a
pledge had been..given. This was a most important question.
The 'louse was called on, not to &Tide on the privet& interest
of the East or West Indies, but on the paramount interest of
the public at large. . •
Mr. LUSIIINGTON said, the pledge given was to this ef-
fect :---There had been considerable discussion, in and out of that
Muse, chiefly as to whether East India sugar could be deno-
minated " cloyed sugar."
.11e recollected must perfectly,: that
the whole discussion turned on the degree of refinement whieit
that sugar underwent; and it was to inquire into that point
that it W 39 proposed to nominate a Committee.
Mr. We SMITH *aid, so far as he understood the fact, there
was a pledge, which he thought was perfectly.understood by
Gentlemen on both sides of the question, that before any thing
farther was dune on this subject, the whole of it should bele, vestigeted by e Committee.
Mr, F. BUXTON understood the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer to have pledged himself to the appointment Oa Come
niittee.
Mr. A. BARING said, the sooner the qttestiOn was gone
into and decided, the better it would be feir all the Interests "cancerned—whether East Indian or West Indian.—(ifear Nothing could he more abetted or unjust to all parties, than to
keep the question in a staid of uncertainty. If the Right lion.
tientleinan had made up his mind to refer the subject to a Coin-
mittee, that Committee ought to be appointed as soon as pee.
sible.—(llear !)--It was a question in which he felt no personal
interest, but still lie hoped it would be immediately taken up„
and put in the hands of a perfectly impartial Committee.—
(Hear !)
•An Honourable Member, whose name we could not learn,
said he understood' most clearly from the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, that
,there should be an immediate inquiry into
the thole subject of the sugar duties.
Mr. ROBERTSON said it few words, which were inaudible
in the gallery.
111 r. ELLIS said, there was a very numerous class of per-
lions, whom he represented, who were most deeply interested
in this tinestion. He was inclined to believe that the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer had not given the pledge which had
been alluded to; because he thought, if that Right Lion. Geri.
denten had intended that a Committee should inquire into' the
who of this subject, he would have given sonic intimation of
that intention tee those parties whose Interests were so much at
stake. Now he was not aware that any such
„intimation had
been given to any Member of Parliament connected with the
Airest India interest.
Mr. BENNET said, if a pledge had not been given, neither
he nor his lion. Friend, the Member for Aberdeen, would
have allowed the Bill to pass at two o'clock in the morning.-« The Chancellor of the Exchequer mitered into an agreement,
that this important question should be thoroughly considered.
It was quite a matter of indifference to him, as it affected the
East Indies or the West Indies; but ft was by no means in-
different to him, As it affected the consumer, in whose cause
he was then standing up, The late Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer had left the appointment of a Committee to his suc-
cessor' as a legacy, and he hoped the Right-Hon. Gentleman
would attend to it.
.. •
Mr. AIARR VAT expressed his opinion that no pledge had,
been given. Same said it was made in the House, and inhere
that it was given to a deputation of merchants. But it was
very, strange, that neither the present Chancellor of the Ex..
chequer nor the Secretary of the Treasury knew any thief& about it; and it was equally extraordinary that no intimation
had been given to the West India merchants.
The. Petition wits then •brought up, and read as follows :
" To the Honourable the Commons of the United Kingdom , of Great Britain and Ireland, in Parliament assembled.
" The humble Petition of the undersigned Merchants,
Agents, Ship-owners, and others, interested in the Trade
to the East Indies, anti resident in London.
" Humbly ehoweth—That your petitioners are extensively
enaged in the trade of the Eau
That your petitionere are cordial friends ever y measure
which, proceeding on fair and impartial grounds, has fOr het principle the removal of those restrictions which fetter the com-
merce of this country.
" That your petitioners, actuated by the sentiments, did in-
didge a confident hope, that when your honourable Boil* re.
moved the restrictions which confined the trade of the British
West India Colonies to the mother country, and by the Acts
3d (eo. I V., cap. 41 and 45 extended the conimercial inter.
course of those Colonies with the United States of Atherica„
with independent Spanish America, and the Continent of Eu-
rope, the views of your honourable Douse would not have
been limited to the West India Colonies, but that, consistently
with the same sound commercial principles, the East India
Trade, tie British Empire in India, and die People of the
United Kingdom, would have been relieved front the burden of
the protecting duty of Ills. per cwt. chargeable on Sugers inn.
parted from the Fast Indies, over and above the duty levied on
Sugars imported front the' West Indies.
That your petitioners must consider that measure, unless
followed by such relief, to be partial in its operation, and there.
fare fraught with injustice to them, to the population of British
India, to all persons In any manner connected with it, and to
the nited Kingdom. in general. •
" That when the said protecting duty was granted with a
view of securing a preference in the home market to the West
India planters, the main argument employed in defence of the
-measure was, their being excluded from foreign market+ ( with
the exception of ports south of Cape Finisterre, under certain.
regulations). Now, however, since the range of the world:has
been afforded them for the sale of their produce, and the per.
chase of their supplies, that preference should cease,
That, continuing to the West Indians the virtual mono-
poly of the home market, whilst their sugars are allowed to 0.
ter into direct competition with East India sugars in foreign.
markets, confers an undue advantage on the former, at the ex-
pence of the latter.
"'That your Petitioners are dearly of opinion, that the re-
tention of the protecting duty in question will prove 1311 injury
to the people of the United kingdom, by its obviotts tendency
to enhance the price of sugar--an article of ,sucli general use
anul& all classes of the community ; and will also prove in-
jurious to the revenue, by narrowing the consumption.
" That it will be flintier highly injurious to the inerclutAtN
manufacturers, anti ship-owners, engaged in the trade between,.
this country and India, by crippling, their means of seems-
fully prosecuting the same.
" That the use of sugar, as a dead weight to ships return.
ing f).oro India, Is essential to the existence of the crude with
that country.
"'That authentic inforinatiort has been laid before your 80.
nourable Douse, of the great increase of the demand for British,
inanufacteres on the part of our Indian population; a demand
limited only by the difficulty of procuring mime.
" That the privation of so material an article as sugar is one
of the chief causes of this difficulty, and tends decidedly to
check the increase of what promises to become one of themoet
valuable branches of British Commerce.
" That the said protecting duty does, moreover, inflict a seri.
our injury on the Ogreat body of the people of Hindustan, who
are entitled as British subjects to a fair participation in the
home, market, and who poetess the farther claim to the copal,
deration of your Hon. House—that they provide for their own
protection and civil government; and, instead of . proving&
burden to the united kingdom, increase its wealth and.add to
its resources.

That in estimating the comparative importance of the two
bran3hcs of British commerce which ore thus brought into cut`
petition, the immense difference in the population of the Ea m.
and West Indies should not be overlooked; aa,the trade.with
the Fast Indies is to meet the growing demand of a popula-
tion of one hundred millions, whilst that with our West Incliu
Colonies is confined to a population of, seven or eight hundred
thousand..

" That your petitioners ask for no exclusive favour, peril.-
once, or protection to themselves; all that they require is to
bepliteed upon an equal footing with the West Innums,, both
in the amount of duties, and in .the elassilleation.of qualities
6° that, If British India can produce cheaper auger, her Plane-
, wits population, placed under llritiah protection, may not be
deprived of the best means of exercising their industry ; that
her trade may not he deliser.ed ;to foreign countries; anti
ally, that the united kingdant may :not lose the latstinnible
vantage of the exchange of itsiNanislikctures fox OW productions
of India. •
" Your petitioners, therefore, decay 'stressed with thy tor»
reetness of these opinions, implore YOpr . Honourable Ilona,.
after having Conferred so Importannt ,Insteiit on the West
India Colonies, not to overlook the other great and important
interests involved in the question; and they respectflilly sub•
mit to the justice of Parliament, that tho removal of the re.
strictiona on %Vest India commerce should he followed by 511
equalization of the duty on sugars imported from the East and

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