The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-13 00:00:00

stave off for a time commercial reform, but that he would ulti-
mately be compelled to yield to the force of necesiity must be
clear to all who had watched what was going on in the coun-
try. If he wanted a proof that suchdnust be the case, he would
only ask them to look to the debate. He well remembered the
time when no man in the House dared to come forward boldly
as the advocate of commercial freedom. Even Mr. Huskisson
had, to a certain degree, to adopt disguise, and to flatter the preju-
dices, and nominally to acquiesce in the doctrines of those of
whose ignorance he was well aware—(Loud cheers)—and
• while the tendency of all his measures was to freedom
trade, his language was often of a different nature.-7(Cheers.)
In those days the advocates of monopoly had the field to them-
selves. How different was the case now ? Even the defenders
of monopoly, were ashamed of the cause they had undertaken
—( Loud cheers)—and to judge of them by
,their language
-they were a House of free traders. • The principle had been
4 conceded on all sides, and no one now attempted to uphold the
old doctrine, that an array of Custinn-house officers were ne-
cessary to uphold British industry. If the drTtrines of free
trade had made such advances in such a short time,
although some persons might be of opinion that the
system of monopoly was destined to endure for many
-fears, he was persuaded that it was not. (Cheers. )
He was persuaded it would not. Even though this measure
were rejected, the ultimate result was certain, and for this
reason he should vote in favour of the measure proposed by
her Majesty's Government.—(Cheers.)
Mr. C. WYNN said ne could not agree to the measures
of her Majesty's Government, in the altered state. of society
in the West Indies.. 'I hose measures themselves were of the
most indefinite character, and they were adopted, like the
reduction in the postage. as an experiment, without the least
possibility of success. 'I he First -Lord of the Treasury had
last year stated that he felt the greatest obj,ction to any al-
teration in the Corn-laws—that if any benefit could be de-
rived from it it would be ill purchased by the agitation.
That reason was equally weighty at present; and it was evi.
d.,-nt, therefore, that it was brought forward for the purpose of
getting up a cry out of doors—an attimpt which hid entirely
failed. The Noble Lord oposite in arguing this question
with respect to slavery, had asked if they would admit no
other article the produce of slave labour. There was a
great difference between the not rejecting an article already
admitted, am! proposing a measure for the admission of a new one.
He thought the present time was not at all opportune to admit
competition with foreign countries, and that observation ap-
plied in a tenfold degree to the admission of the pi oduct of
slave labour. In conclusion, the Hight Hon. Gentleman stated
that he Mt bound to oppose the proposition of her AN, stys
Government. and give his support to the amendment of the
Noble Lord the Member for Liverpo .1, feeling convinced that
the proposition of the Government, whet e it would not benefit
the people of this country would greatly aggravate the evils of
slavery.
Mr. W. EVANS su;iported the measure proposed by her
Majesty's .Ministers relative to the duties on sugar. ' He did
so on.the ground that the tio-se was not warranted ire impos-
ing enormous taxes on the people of this country on the article
of sugar, when by the admission of a small quantity of foreign
sugar it .might be prevented. With respect to the other
parts.of the proposition-of her Majesty's Government he need
hardly say that they had his hearty concurrence, and for his
own part he believed that for years no Mini tees of the Crown
had proposed measures so-calculated for the benefit of the
country as those that had been proposed by the Noble Lord
the Secretary for- the Colonies. In conclusion, he would
only express a hope that, whether under the present -Go.
itei•nment, or any utheri•no means would be lost to carry thyin
into effect;•. • • • • . ,

Lord WORSCEY objected to the proposition _of her Ma-
jesty's Government, believing that it the Corn,laws were
altered as proposed, there would not be that relief given to
the manufacturers which was generally supposed. He, to-
gether with two other Members for Lincoln, had some years
since joined in a vote of confideure in the pie sent Ministers ;
but believing that the farmer, both rich and poor, in Lincoln-
shire would be ruined unless they had protection by the Corn-
laws, they had resolved to give the proposed measure
their determined opposition, and for his own part he believed
that her Majesty's Government had been misinformed as to the
expenses of bringing coen into this country. The Noble Lord
read the evidence of Mr. Saunders, a corn merchant, of thirty
years' standing, who said that a fixed duty would never answer.
When corn would be brought to this country at 3s. 6d. a
quarter, a duty of 83. would be no protection to the farmer
whatever. Had the low prices of 1833 continued for two or
three years longer, many of the small farmers must have been
ruined. They went on cultivating the land at a loss on the
faith of the present Corn-laws. He denied that the agricul-
tural interest had had any notice of the measures of the Go-
vernment respecting corn, and as the Government could not
have the remotest chance of passing such a measure, they
ought never to have brought it forward.—( Cheers.) Those
who had been agitating for a repeal of the Corn-laws would
accept the present measure only as an instilment, and when-
ever the price rose to 605., they would say they could nu
longer pay the Bs. duty. Entertaining these opinions. how-
-1 ever sorry he was to oppose the Government, although
his vote might trarefer the powers of Government from those
hands in which he wished to see them; still, in common
honesty, he felt bound to vote against the proposition of the
Government.—(Cheers.)
Sir A. GRANT had heard the speech of the Noble Lord
with much pleasure—(Cheers)—and thought he had come to
a very. sound decision, and hoped his vote would help.to save
those interesti, whore existence were now at stake. lie had
heard, also, with much pleasure, the speech of the Right Hon.
Gentleman the Member for the Tower HaMlets, and he agreed
in all the objections he took to the measure, but more
especially in the first he took, which was the gross injus-
tice intended by the Government to the West Indians.
The Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Devonport, had t:e-
sigrated the petition presented by his Right Hon. Friend from
the West India merchants, as gross hypocrisy. He denied that
the petition warranted the application of such terms, or that
it contained anything to call down the stigmatising censure of
the Right Hon. Gentleman. The petitioners had designated
the slave trade as " atrocious." and he did not think it merited
any other term. It was a strong proef of the badness of a
cause, when parties were compelled to have recourse to such
language, and when they were driven to misrepresent the lan-
guaee and sentiments of th dr opponents. The Right Hon. Gen-
tieinan had been Secretary for the Colonies from 1832 to 1839,
and must have known ietimately, from his communications wit h
the Governors of the West India colonies, the state of the
cultivation of sugar in these islands. He must have known
that in 1838 the planting of the sugar cane almost entirely
ceased throughout the West Indies, the negroes haying been
that year entirely emancipated It was clear, then, that it was
owing to the measures of the Government itself that the supply
of 3uear from the West Indies had been so much diminished.
It was almost unnecessary to comment upon the futile argu-
ments that had been urged by the Noble Lord (Messick), who
had addressed the House that evening.—(lronical cheering.)
He should not be put down by the taunts and sneers of any
Hon. Members, and he trusted the House would make some
allowance for any inadvertent intemperance in the remarks of
one whose very existence, he might say, depended upon the
issue of the present proposition.—( Hear.) It appeareu to him
that if the proposition of the Chancellor of the Exchequer
were carried, and he thanked God it would be indignantly
scouted by the House and by the country—but if it were
carried, it would terminate, nut in competition, as was argued
by the Right Hon. Gentleman, but in the substitution of slave-
grown sugar for that of their own colonies. He trusted the
House would not take a step the object of which was to en-
courage slavery and the slave-trade. Where, he asked, was
the consistency of the present Government, when, after ex-
pending so many millions in putting an end to slavery, they
now come forward with a measure which would go directly to
its promotion and encouragement? He thanked the House fur
the patience with which it had had heard him ; for his part he
was perfectly satisfied with the argument as it stood, and how-
ever the debate might be prolonged (it might be protracted
another week for all he eired), he should seek no arguments
beyond those he had already heard, to induce him to give hie
strenuous and determined opposition to the proposition of her
Maj. sty's Government.—(Loud:cheers.)
Mr. JOHN O'CONNELL said that it had been stated on
the other side, that the West Indian Proprietors had a right
in the slaves they possessed. They had, indeed, a right which
was recognised by the custom of the land, but not by the law of
the land. As he had taken a part in the Anti-Slavery agita-
tion in Ireland, he felt that he owed it to some of his consti-
tuents to stale the grounds on which he gave his vote on the
present question, which seemed ti have connection with that
of 'slavery. He could not place implicit c:eitidence in the
statement that the convictions of Hon. Gentlemen opposite,
which led them so constantly to oppose everything intended
to benefit the enslaved African, were suddenly changed with-
out some motive. Why had thel Noble Lord (Sandon) so
framed his resolution, that it could bear a meaning which
would not, under other circumstances, prevent
.Hun. Gentle-
men opposite corning forward with a measure precisely similar,
as far as the introduction into this country of slaveegrown
commodities were ecincerned, to that which they now so
violently opposed: . It was the doubts lot the. sincerity of
the Noble Lord, which his resolution so framed gave rise to,
that would induce him (Mr. J. O'Connell) to vote against him.
Great quantities of sugar were produced in Java, China, and
other eastern countries, and this year there were imported into
this country 6,000 tons of that article from the latter country.
Could not arrangements be made fur the introduction of free
labour sugar from these countries, without any encourage-
ment being given to sugar the growth of slave tabour- The
Hon. Member for Newark (Mr. W. E. Gladstone) said that
treaties stood in the way of that. The Hon. Member ought
to have informed the House what those treaties were, and
whatever they were, they ought to be modified, when there
were such strong inducements for so doing, as the
desire to give the people of this country cheap sugar,
and to avoid at the same time all encouragement
to slavery. The Hon. Member for Wigan (Mr. Ewart) said
it was impossible to draw a distinction between sugar the pro-
duce of free labour, and !that which was the produce of slave
labour. When he (Mr.;J. O'Connell) heard that statement be
said he should be obliged to vote with the Hon. Gentlemen
opposite. However, he listened to the entire of that Hon.
Member's speech, and he read the reports in the papers, and
yet he neither heard nor read the reason given by the Hon.
Gentleman to support his statement. The Hon. Gentleman
also said that the only effectual way of putting down slavery
was by commerce. Now he (Mr. J. O'Connell) could not con-
ceive how that was the case, and he thought the Hon. Gen-
tl. man was bound to show how commerce could have that
effect. With regard to the general question before the House,
he would not enter at any length into it. He would only say
that as an Irish Member he might be supposed to be adverse
to the-proposition for mitigating the L'sc' irn-laws.—(Hear,
hear, hear.) Now he must say that he never knew
of any good being derived f:om those laws. He was delighted
with the proposition of the Government, both with respect to
the Corti-laws and the reduction of the dutiei on timber.
If the question were allowed to go into Committee, he would
give 'his vote for the introduction into this country of foreign
tree-grown sugar.
Sir J. REID said that he was one of those who signed the
h
petition which was particularly alluded to bsrthedwhether
Hon.
Mem-
ber for Cambridge (Sir Alexander Grant), and
was a greater hypocrite or not—( Great laughter)—it was for
the House to decide. On the subject which was at present
under discussion, he would reed a note, with the permission of
the House, from a gentleman whose opinion ought to be va-
lued. The Hon. Gentleman read-a note to himself from Mr.
Horsley Palmer, disapproving of the reduction of the duties on
timber and corn, particularly in the present state of the Bank
of England. From the members of the present Go-
vernment individually, he (Sir J. Reid) ,received every
kindness and attention ; bat that should.' not present
his speaking. of them as a body as he thought; and.he did
not hesitate to say that a more reckless, inconsiderate Govern-
ment he never saw or heard.—(Laughter.) He merely wished
to impress that on their minds on the last opportunity which
he would hate of addressing them (Ministers) in their respec-
tive situations. —(Much laughter.) He did not say that their
sun *as setting, and setting to rise no more.--(Continued
laughter.) He wished, for the sake of the commercial inter-
estrof the country, that the House would decide the present
important question as soon as possible, because, pending the
debate, trade was at a complete stand. • He said that as an
old merchant-4nd it was impossible for one notisituated as he
was to conceive the- mischief caused by protracted delay.
. Trade; however, was not in such a state of despondency as was
represented by the Hon. Member for Halifax (Mr. U Wood).
hies GISBORNE said thathe did not think he should have
troubled the House at that protracted period of the debate, if
he were not unwilling that it should close without his returning
thanks to the Hon. Member for Newark. He (Mr. Gisborne)
tad often heard it said that those were the hest friends who told
people of their faults. The lion. Member for Newark per•.
rinisterlal)
formed that service for the gentle ten of that (the D