The Sun.
London, England, 1841-03-13 00:00:00

. (11.

LONDON, SATURDAY, MARCH 13, 1841.

IMPE R lAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, MARcin 12.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY took his scat on the Wool-
sack at the usual hour.
Lord W HARNCLIFFE preseuted a petition from a
place in Scotland against Church patronage.
The Earl of HARDWICK presented a petition
from the Board of Guardians of the Caxton and
Harrington Unions, in the counties of Cambridge
and Huntingdon, praying for certain alterations in
the Poor-laws. The Noble Earl said there was
a generally increasing objection to the continuance of
the Commission, and though he did not think it shoul 1 be
altogether immediately abolished, he thought the number
of the Commissioners might be advantageously reduced.
He concurred in the general sentiments of the petition.
The Bishop of BANGOR presented a petition from his
diocese praying for the repeal of that portion of the 6th
and 7th Wm. IV., ch. 77, commonly called the Established
Church Act, which united the dioceses of St. Asaph and
Bangor. The petitioners had strong feelings of patriotism,
and they thought that their county had been slighted in
the manner in which the union must be affected. It
might appear strange that they should petition now against
an Act which was pasted four years ago, but they did so
because they were disappointed in the hope held out to
them, that the surplus revenue would be appropriated ti
the augmentation ef the poorer livings. The Rev. Pre
late their presented petitions from the same districts
against the new Poor-law Bill.
The Duke of RICHMOND presented a petition from
Mr. James Carr, who had been a Judge of the Court of
Queen's Bench in Quebec, and also Judge of the Vice-
Admiralty in Canada, stating that he had held those offices
forty Tears, and had been deprived of them w ithout trial.
The Noble Duke had drawn the attention of the Noble
Lord the Secretary for tae Colonies to the subject, and
had requested him to get one of his colleagues to be pre-
sent for the purpose of stating what had really taken place.
The Marquis of NORM ANBY said that he had not
seen his Noble Friend the Secretary for the Colonies, but
as he was in the Colonial-office at the time the transaction
took place, he should be able to explain it fully to the
Noble Duke. He was sorry the gentleman had been so iil-
advised as to bring the case before the House, as it would
compel him most reluctantly to state to the House whit the
real facts of the case were. Mr. Carr, it was true, had
been the Judge of the Court of Queen's Bench in Que-
bec and of the Admiralty in Lower Canada. In 1816 a
sum of 1,2001. was placed in the hands of the Registrar of
that Court, and Mr. Carr placed that sum to his own private
account, and from that time up to 1834 Mr. Carr had
given no account of that money which he had had
for that long space of time at his own disposal.—
( Hear, hear.) He admitted, when questioned on the
subject, that he could not replace it in consequence of his
embarrassments, but ultimately, in 1834, the money
was repaid. The result was that Mr. Carr was dis-
missed from the office of the Judge of the Admiralty, and
Lord Monteagle also dismi,sed him from being a Judge of
the Court of Queen's Bench at Quebec. In 1839, Mr. Carr,
while be (Lord N.) was at the Colonial-office, transmitted
a representation, accompanied by the recommendation of
the Executive Council and the Governor, to the Government,
in the nature of an appeal, to their consideration ; but he
( Lord Normanby), how ever disposedhe was to attach weight
to the recommendation of the Executive Council, and the
Governor, could see HO reason to disturb the decision that
had been come to.—The subject then (Lopped.
The Bishop of LONDON wished to ask the Noble
Viscount at the head of her Majesty's Government, when
he expected the papers for which he had moved on the
Bth of February, relative to idolatrous worship in India,
would be laid upon the table.
Viscount MELBOURNE would make inquiry on the
subject.
The Duke of RICHMOND presented a petition from
the Subordinate Officers of the Gaols in England, pray-
ing for retiring pensions, when they became incapable of
performing their duty.
Lord HILL presented a petition from Ellesmere,
against any alteration in the Corn-laws.
Lord DUNCANNON postponed the third reading of
the Irish Tithe Bill till Tuesday next ; and the third read-
ing of the Exchequer Courts Bill (Ireland) till the Tues-
day following.

Mr. Tidd Pratt presented at the Bar certain returns
'rom Loan Societies.

On the motion of Sir BRUCE CHICHESTER the
Chard Canal Bill was read a second time, and ordered to
be committed.

On the motion of Mr. W. MILES the Wells and High
Bridge Road Bill was read a second time, and ordered to
be committed.

MIDDLESEX SESSIONS.
Celonel WOOD moved the second reading of the Mid-
dlesex Sessions Bill. The principal point raised by the
Bill was whether certain cases .hould be tried at the Cen-
tral Criminal Court or at the Quarter Sessions. The ex-
pense of tr}ing cases at the Central Criminal Court was
about 3/. 12s. for every prosecution, while at the Quarter
Sessions it amounted only to about 1/. Bs. ; the adoption,
therefore, of the latter Court would be a most material
saving to the county.

Mr. BY NG would not oppose the second reading of the
Bill, but he thought ample time should be given for the
different parishes in Middlesex to meet and discuss the
prolisions of the measure. The reason why the costs of
each prosecution were so great at the Central Criminal
Court was that the Middlesex cases came on last, while at
Hicks's Hall they were tried immediately.
Mr. EASTH 0 PE supported the Bill.
Mr. WAKLEY considered that it was for the benefit
of the public that such a Bill should be passed into a law.
The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be
committed.

Upon the motion of Mr. WILSON PATTEN, the
Ganlingay Inclosurc Bill (No. 1) was read a second time
and ordered to be committed.

SEVERN NAVIGATION.
Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET movedthat the peti-
tions praying that the Severn Navigation Bill may be re-
ferred to a Select Committee, be referred to the Select
Committee on Private Business, to consider the prayer
thereof, and report their.opinion thereupon to the House.
Captain WINN[NGTON said he should give the
motion his decided opposition, considering that the course
proposed was entirely unprecedented. He thought there
had been a want of courtesy in the proceeding.
Mr. 0. GORE expressed, great regret at the observa-
tion which had fallen from iitire4Hon. Gentleman. He
begged to assure him that the motion had not been brought
forward without a communication having been made to
the parties opposing the meassaa.
Mr. PAKINGTON said lrs- also regretted that the
motion had been submitted to the House. He could not
see why they should depart from the ordinary course of
business. The part of the Severn to be improved by the
Bill Vl9B principally in the county of Worcester. It ap-
peared to him most important that Members who repre-
sented the commercial interests of the district should sit upon
the Committee who were to investigate the subject. At
the same time, as he was confident that the promoters of
the Bill would desire nothing but an impartial investiga-
tion, and that the remit of the proceedings would be fair
and satisfactory to all parties, he should not oppose the
motion. _ _ .

After a few works from Mr. LABOUCHERE and
Mr. CLIVE, the motion was agreed to.
On the motion of Col. THUS. WOOD, the South-
ampton Trust (St. Pancras) Paving Bill was read a
second time.
On the motioa of Mr. DUNDAS the Annan Fisheries
Bill was read a second time.

On the motion of Mr. LOCKHART the Polloc and
Govan Railway Bill was read a second time.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE presented a petition from an
inhabitant of Chelsea against the Chelsea Poor Bill.
CHURCH-RATES.

Mr. E ASTII OPE presented petitions from the Cam-
berwell Constitutional Society, for the abolition of
Church-rates, from the Dissenters of Staley Bridge,
from Montgomeryshire, for the Relief Congregation
of Perth, from Llandovery, in Wales ; from the
Independent Protestant Dissenters of Olney ; from
Bury, in Lancashire ; from the Methodists of East-
ham, in Nottinghamshire • from the section of the Re-
deemed Church at Pickard; from the Baptists at Olney,
Bucks ; from a Baptist Church in Yorkshire ; from the
General Baptists at Eastham, Nottinghamshire ; from the
Protestant Dissenters at Bangor; from the Protestant Dis-
senters at Dunsmore ; and from Bainbridge, Yorkshire, all
praying for the abolition of Church-rates ; also a petition
from the burgesses of a ward in the borough of Leicester,
stating that Mr. Baines, now a prisoner for non-payment
of Church-rates, had been elected a town councillor of
that borough, and praying that his case might be taken
into consideration, and means adopted for his liberation.
Mr. HOLDSWORTH presented seven petitions
against the Poor.law Amendment Bill.
Mr. DUGDALE presented petitions from the rate-
payers of tbirLy-four parishes in the county of Warwick,
complaining of the expense they were put to by the Bir-
mingham Riots, and praying for relief.
Mr. H. BERKELEY presented a petition from the
Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire, numerously signed, com-
plaining of the expense incurred in the recovery of small
debts, and praying for the extension of the jurisdiction of
the local Court of St. Briavels ; also a similar petition
from the Hundred of St. Brim els.

Mr. KEMBLE presented a petition from Surrey, in
favour of Church Extension; also a petition from medical
practitioners of Croydon, praying for certain alterations in
the Poor-law with respect to the employment of medical
practitioners.

POOR-LAWS.
r•nrd nUNC.AN preaeritad w netitio from So rh.
_mpton against the Poor-law Continuance Bill novr-
the House, and especially praying, that if the House
should think prop( r to pass that Bill, they would intro-
duce a clause to prevent its interfering with Load Acts
which have been found to work well.

Mr. T. DUNCOMBE presented a petition from
Merthyr Tydvil against the New Poor-laws.
Mr. BRAMSTON and Mr, 0. GORE presented
similar petitions, but the designations of the petitions were
not distinctly heard.

he was aware that in consequence of recent circumstances
in Syria, the French Government had declined ail further
interference with Catholics in that country ?
Lord PALMERSTON said of course he could not
give any explanation on that point, but he could assure the
House that the steps that had been taken by her M jest)'s
Government applied to Christians of all denominations,
Mr. EASTHOPE gave notice that on Thursday next
he should move that the petition of Mr. Baines should be
taken into consideration. The Hon. Member also sated
that he would postpone his motion mith respect to Church-
rates until after Easter.

Mr. WILLIAMS gave notice that on Thursday the
25th instant he would move for r( turns of the sums
of money received by the Commissioners for the Re-
duction of the National Debt, on account of deposits paia
into the Savings: Banks.

Mr. MARK— PHILLIPS gate notice that on Monday
next he would move that there be laid before the 1-louse
such potions of the Report of the Contrnitt( e as referred
to the best line of railway communication Ihtween Edin-
burgh and Manche ter.

Mr. H. BERKELEY begged to ask the Right Hon.
Gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who her
the survey instituted by the Admira'ty, at the instigwi
of the Treasury, in the port of Bristol, and which had been
delayed by the illness of Sir James Ward, was likely to lie
brought to a completion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER W EIS
happy to be able to state that the health of the Gallant
Officer would enable him very soon to resume his duties,
and that the survey would shortly be proceeded with.
Lord F. EGERTON wished to ask the Noble Lord,
the Secretary for the Colonies, whether a copy of a docu-
ment, which appeared in the newspapers, were authentic,
conveying the Packalic of Egypt to Mehemet Ali and
his decendants ; and whether, if authentic, it had receved
the section of the British Government, and the
other Three Powers.—(Hear, hear.) He also wished
to know if it was proposed to adhere to its provisions.
Lord PALMERSTON said he had received through
the Turkish Ambassador a copy of a firman sent by the
Sultan to Mehemet Ali, conferring on him the Govern-
ment of Eg:-pt, with the hereditary successi in to his de-
scendants, subject to certain conditions. He (Lord P. )
had not compared that with the document in the newspapers,
and therefore he was not able to say whe her they coin-
cided, but he supposed they did. The instrument was one
issued by the Sultan on his own responsibility, and it was
only yesterday communicated to her Maesty's Govern-
ment. Until some subject might arise in regard to it,
which could call for notice of the Four Power., he appre-
beveled it was a question between the Sultan and his
vassal Mehemet Ali.

Sir R. PEEL said that the question was really one of
great importance—( Hear, hear)—and calculated to give
rise to serious consideration. It was understood that
an engagement had been entered into will Mehemet Ali,
conferring on him the hereditary Pachalic of Egypt.
The Firman to which the Noble Lord referred confirmed
that engagement, but the Porte reserved to itself the
power of determining which of the sons of the Paella
should succeed him. Was that, he would ask, a provision
in conformity with the conditions of the quadruple treaty ?
—( Hear, hear.) He also wished to know whether the
Four Powers were parties to it?
Lord PALMERSTON said, that he had answered
the question as it had been put to him.—( Laughter.)
He had been asked by the Right Hon. Baronet, whether
the Four Powers had or had not, approved of that pro-
vision of the Firman which reserved to the Sultan the
r.ght of selecting which of 'Mehemet's descendants was to
succeed him in the Pachalic. Now he was sure it would
be seen that it was impossible for him to say what the Four
Powers might or might not think upon that particular
point. He understood that the Paella had on the 23d
of February last sent a remonstrance against that
stipulation. But what the Sultan might reply to that—
whether he might modify the provision, or whether he
might think it expedient in the first instance to ask the
advice of the Allies, it was impossible for him
to assume beforehand. The intention of the
Four Powers undoubtedly was, that he should
grant a bona fide hereditary succession to the descendants
of Mehemet Ali—(Hear, hear)—in as nearly a direct
line as the interests of both parties would admit. They had
never intended that the grant should derogate from the
rights of the Sultan, that it should create a separate
and independent sovereignity, but the clear TEC3II-
- and intention of the Allies unquestionably was
that the grant should at the same time be a bona fide
one to Mehemet and his descendants.
In answer to an Hon. Member, Lord PALMERSTON
said that what the precise communications were between
the Porte and the Four Powers previously to the issuing
of the firman, he really could not take upon himself to
state at present.
POOR-LAWS (IRELAND).
Mr. DAWSON DAMER. begged to ask the Noble I
Lord, the Secretary for Ireland, what was the result of
the communications that had taken place between the
Guardians of the Poor of Mountmilliek Union and the
Poor-law Commissioners, relative to the site of
a union workhouse and other matters. He had
also a question to ask relative to a letter
purporting to come from Mr. Nl‘Dunnell, the Noble Lord's
secretary, and which appeared in the public papers. It
would appear that Dr. Jacob, a gentleman of great emi-
nerce in his profession, had been appointed a guardian of
the poor for that union, and had made himself very dis-
agreeable to the Prinr-Inuo Innmmiccinnorc Th. 1,,,r.” nF
Al.. kA .vvosacil was to the effect, that if Dr. Jacob was
again chosen a poor-law guardian, his Excellency the
Lord Lieutenant would feel it right to appoint another
medical attendant to the Asylum. Now if that letter
were authentic, he thought it was an arhitrary assump-
tion of power on the part of the Poor-law Commissioners.
Lord MO RPETH said the differences between the
Board of Guardians and the Poor-law Commissioners
were chiefly with reference to a rate for the workhouse,
and be had no objection to lay them on the table of the
House. With respect to the letter of Mr. M‘Donnell, to
which the Hon. Member referred, he believed that it was
correct.

In answer to a question from Lord SANDON, which
was inaudible,

Lord PALMERSTON said the representatives of the
Four Powers had been continually in communicaiim with
the Porte. If he were asked whether the hatti scheriff,
in the shape in which it was issued, was communicated to
our Ambassador, he really was not able to answer the
question.
Mr. E W ART asked whether it was understood the Pa-
chalic should descend hereditarily in the family of Mehemet
Ali without the intervention of the Sultan.

Lord PALMERSTON said the advise gven by the

Four Powers did not go into minute details, but the advice
given was that the Sultan should grant hereditary succes-
sion to the family of Mehemet Ali, but that each succeed-
ing Pacha should receive investiture from the sovereign
act of the Sultan, and not assume it as an independent so-

vereignty.
Lord SAND ON inquired if tlis was known before the
hatti scheriff was issueef, and whether it was made the
subject of remark ?
Lord PALMERSTON said he was not aware that any
remonstrance had been made on the subject, but he must
really put it to the House whether he should be called upon
to give explanations to Hon. Gentlemen opposite as to acts
arid discussions pending—( Hear, hear)—on which no offi-
cial communication had been received.—( Hear, hear.)
This far he would say, lie believed there was a misunder-
standing on the subject, and he thought the intention of
the hatti scheriff was to preserve to the Sultan that sove-
reign right which must belong to biro, and that it was not
intended to evade the bona fide arrangement that had been
made.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL begged to ask the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman opposite whether he intended to pro-
ceed with his 13i11 for the abolition of the punishment of
death on Wednesday. He hoped it might suit his conve-
nience to postpone it till another day.
Mr. KELLY was glad to have the opportunity of state-
ing to the House that it was not his intention to go into
Committee on his Bill until after Easter. He took that
course because of the several Bills which had been intro-
duced on the same subject. He trusted that by that time
all those Bills would be in the hands of Members and all
fairly before the House. As connected with the same
subject, he had communicated with the Under-Secretary
of State, respecting some returns relating to the Criminal
Law, and there was no opposition to them. Pei haps the
House would then allow him to move fcr them under such
circumstances, He then moved for a return of the number
of persons who had been capitally indicted, convicted, and
executed in the years 1837, 1838, 1839, and 1540.--Or-
dered.

In answer to question from Sir G. CLERK,

Lord J. RUSSELL said he would ocAaitily not pro-
pose to go on with the Registration (Scotland) Bill on
Monday, if the business before it occupied the House until
a late hour. He begged to state that the resolution he
would have to propose on Monday in Committee would
be in substance to authorise her Majesty to grant a loan
from the Consolidated Fund to the amount of 210,0001. to
the Commissioners of South Australia to be repaid at cer-
tain periods.
Lord SANDON said it was understood that Sir F.
Smith had reportA upon the Le3t line of railway to Scot-
land. lie begged to ask if that was the case, and if so,
was it such as it would be desirable to put the House in pos-
session of ?
Mr. LA BOU C HERE said, in consequence of a com-
munication received yesterday, lie had seen Sir F. Smith
that morning, but they had not gone i,do the details of the
Report. The Report itself would be on the t iblc of the
House on Monday or Tuesday.
Sir R. PEEL suggested that Sir F. Smith or other
eminent engineers should be employed in all railway un-
dertakings. Last year one Company had spent no less
than 70,0001., allot which [lad been absolutely thrown away.
Mr. LABOUCHERE—It might be very proper that
they should abandon the present system of soliciting pri-
vate Bills through that House. But as long as the pre-
sent system existed, it was of the utmost importance that
they should deal out equal justice to all.
WEST INDIA AND NORTH AMELZICAN COLO-
NIES.

The House went into Committee on the Custom Du-
ties of the West Indian and North America colonies.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said he rose, in pursuance
of the notice which he had given to call the
atention of the House to that system of dulias
which was establi,hcd by the authority of the Im-
perial Parliament in the great weitern portio❑ of
the dominions of her Majesty. Although the subject
was not of a nature to excite any party interest, and
al-
though he must necessarily entsr confiderahly into detail,