The Sun.
London, England, 1823-04-12 00:00:00

useful, not only to these who were capable of educating them-
selves, but to the ordinary classes of society.
Sir J. NEWPORT believed the lectures Thad been found
highly useful. •
Mr. HUME said the reason given for supporting this Insti-
tution would apply equally well to the establishment of one of
the same description m any other manufacturing town.
The Resolulion was agreed to.
The next grant proposed was that of 7,0001. for the Dublin
Society.
Mr. HUME said last year he had taken the sense of the
House on this vote, considering the sum thus appropriated to
be money thrown away. He had since made further inquiries,
and was convinced the grant was made to very little purpose..
He understood. the house of the Dublin Society was a place
where persons met to read newspapers and periodical works.
He wished to know what important publication had proceeded

from it since last year.
Mr. GOULBURN said, the. object of the Institution was
not merely to prepare new publications, lectures were there
given on various subjects. There were six Professorships and
as many Professors, who lectured on Chemistry, Mineralogy,
Natural Philosophy, Botany, and other subjects. Many im-
provements in the Sciences which were the subjects of the
lectures, had been made since those lectures were given, so
that their beneficial effects were generally felt throughout
Dublin. Drawing and tkulpture were studied at the Society,
and many distinguished characters could be named who owed
their flist advance to the instruction which they had received
there. Two young men were regularly sent to Rome at the
expence 'of the Society to study the Fine Arts. Maps of par-
ticular districts had been made under the directions of ,the
Society, and in a variety of ways it had been the means of
benefitting all 'classes.
Mr. HUME described the proceedings of the Society to be
of the most childish character. Of several which had come to
his knowledge, ,he could find but one that appeared sensible,
that was a discussion on a tithe-question. It seemed that the
Society rented ground which produced them ill. in a year. It
had been proposed that st: should be given to the Clergyman
for tithes on this land. To this proposition an amendment had
been moved, the object of which was to give the Clergyman a
tenth of the produce. The original proposition, however, was
carried. Ile moved as an amendment that the grant should be
reduced from 7,0001. to 3,500/. intending, if he succeeded in
this, to move that the whole should be reduced next year.
Mr. R. SHAW defended the grant, and described the 5/.
stated by the Ilon. Gentlettian to have been paid as tithes on
land producing 01. per annum, to have been in point of fact,
given as a commutation for tithes on a considerable tract of
land which the Society held.
After a few words from Sir J. NEWPORT, Mr. HUME with-
drew his amendment.
The next sum proposed was 9,2301., for building Churches
and purchasing Glebes in Ireland.
Lord A. HAMILTON objected to the principle of this ap-
plication of money. He considered that the Church of Ireland
was already overpaid, and the service worse performed than that
of any other country. This sum must come from the taxes of
this country, for the revenue of Ireland was inadequate to dis-
charge this and its other expences.
Mr. GOUL BURN observed, that the Noble Lord was wrong
in supposing that this grant was to pay the Church of Ireland.
He thought the Noble Lord would find it difficult to :thew that
the building of places of worship ought to be defrayed from the
pockets of the Clergymen, and unless he did so he could not
oppose this Resolution. The Noble Lord had convinced him,
by what he had said of the Church of Ireland, that he had
never been in a Church in that country.
Lord A. HAMILTON alluded to the non-performance, and
not to the ill-performance of the Church duty, in what he had
said of Ireland.
Sir J. NEWPORT thought himself bound to oppose this
grant. The higher members of the Irish Church ought, in his
opinion, to defray the expences of church-building, and re-
pairing out of their revenues. Ile stated as a fact that they
ought to be ashamed of, that within the last 15 years three
Right Rev. Bishops had left to their familes no less than
700,000/. This was not an attack upon the Clergy, but on the
contrary, that which was calculated to uphold them. • It was a
fact worthy of notice, that there were many hundreds of acres of
glebe landin Ireland, on which no glebe hoititehad been built:
This was an evasion of die law that that House, ought to frustrate.
Mr. HUME could not but dissent faunathe statement of the
Right lion. Secretary (Mr. Goulburn), that; the,Clergy of Ire-
land fully discharged their duty. Every thing was in the power
of Government, and it was therefore useless for them to say they
had done all they could. He should take the sense of the House
against the grant altogether. Within a short time no leas than
700,000/. had been consumed in this way, and they had no ac-
count of how it had been applied.
Mr. W. SAIITH thought that this country was much more
interested in this question than tho sister country, when we
were called upon to build glebe houses in Ireland, and the real
friends of that Church would refrain from agitating this ques-
tion in the English Parliament. With all this, however, it ap-
peared that the number of Catholics in Ireland were gaining
ground upon the Protestants.
Mr. GRATTAN corroborated the statement of his Hon.
Friend (Mr. Smith) as to the increase of Catholics. Ile thought
It much better to both parties to abstain from these discussions.
Mr. GOULBURN assured the House, that this vote did
not spare the incumbents of livings the necessity of building
glebe houses. It was intended to give them the public money
to do so in the first instance; obliging them, however, to re-
store the amount by after payments to the general fund, from
which future issues were made.
After a conversation, in which Sir J. Newport, Mr. Banker,
Mr. W. Smith, Mr. Goulburn, Mr. Robt. Smith, Mr. Hume;
Mr. S. Rice, and Lord A. Hamilton, participated,
Mr. BAN KES observed, that this appeared tan be a grant in
the nature of a loan, no part of which ever came back to the
lender. It appeared that the returns made to' these grants
went to create a certain fund—if so, there must be a consider-
able sum in hand upon account of that fund ; and it ought to
appear to. that House how the money had been appropriated.
After a few observations from Mr. Aloswic, the Gallery was
cleared for a division.—The numbers were,
For the Resolution - - 43
Against it a.
Majority
On the estimate of 10,0001. for improving the streets of Dublin,
Mr. HUAI I.: objected to the voting of that sum.
Mr. S. RICE also opposed the vote.
Mr. Secretary PEEL observed, that the old Legislature of
Dublin granted sums for the improvement of that City, and it
really was essential that the inhabitants of Dublin should not
feel that the removal of the Legislature would prevent the im-
provement of the metropolis.
Mr. S. RICE did not wish to oppose the' legitimate claims
which the City of Dublin might have on die Legislature.
Mr. HUME thought the sum of 4,5001., which was more
than the old Irish Parliament granted, would be sufficient. He
accordingly moved an amendment for the purpose of substitut-
ing that sum.
The Amendment was negatived without a division, and the
original Resolution agreed to.
£2,500 was voted for defraying the expences of the Farming
Society in Ireland.—.E3oo for the Royal Irish Academy.
£5OO for die Commissioners of Charitable Donations and
Bequests.
Alr. AIA BE RLY opposed the grant of 19,9311. for defray-
ing the expence of the Trustees of the Linen and Hemp
Manufactories in Ireland, on the ground that so large a sum
was unnecessary. It was proved before the Committee on
the Linen Trade, that the bounty given to Linen Manufac-
turers in Ireland was contrary to the spirit of the Union, inas-
much as it gives a bounty fur the exportation of Duck and
Sailcloth, to the injury of the manufacturers of' England.
After a few observations from Mr. Gou Lim itN, and Mr. S.
Itteu, the sum was voted.
The sum of 1,6171. was then voted for defraying the expence
of the Board of Works in Ireland.
£17,301 for defraying the expence of the Stationary Depart-
ment in Ireland, &c. &c.
Mr. BROGDEN reported progress.—Report on Wednesday.
The other Orders oldie Day were then read, and the House
adjourned at Half-past Twelve to Monday.

' A LIST OF THE MINORITY
WHO VOTED FOR stn. JOHN* NEWPORT'S MOTION,
" For the Valuation of the First Fruits in Ireland, and for
their proper application to the purposes fur which they were
granted."
Abercromby, Hn.J. Frankland, R. Pakenliam, on.R.
Baring, A. Grattan, .J. Pelham, .1. C.
Barnard, Visct. Griffith, J. W. Phillips, G.
Benyon, Benj. Hamilton, Lord A. Phillips, 0. H.
Bernal, R. Bill. Lord Arthur RiCardo, David
Boughey, SirJ. F. Hughes, W. L. Robarts, A. W.
Burdett, Sir F. Hume, Joseph Shelley, Sir John
Butterworth, J. Kennedy, I'. F. Smith, J.
Caulfield, Hon. H. Knight, Robert Sykes, D.
Colburne, R. Lushington; S. 'Talbot, R. W.
Crompton, S. Macdonald, J. Wyvill, M.
Davies, T. H. Martin, J. TELLERS. •
Fergusson, Sir R.C. onck, J. B. Newport, Sir J.
Fitzgerald,lAordW. Ord, W. Rice, T. S.
MINORITY
On the Motion for reducing the Vote from £17,000 to £13,000,
for Protestant Charter Sillools, with a view of adding £4,000
for the use of the Catholic Schools.
Baring, A. Hume, J. Whitbread, Sam.
Bernal, Ralph Lennard, J. Wyvill, M.
Blake, Sir P. Martin, John Wood, Alderman
Grattan, J. Newport, Sir J.
Hamilton, Lord A. Palmer, C. F.
Hobliouse, J. C. Smith, Wm.

TELLER.
Monck, J. 13.