The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-16 00:00:00

. I

gentlemen, having superadded to their present the additional
duties of this Bill, could undertake the business which would
be imposed upon them. The late Mr. Drummond, than whops
no mai, was more able to cope with the cork of the country
if they were to tell the late Mr. Drummond that he was to
undertake the whole of the administration of the poor-
law in Irelaed, to administer to twenty-two thousand and
twenty electoral divisions, he (Lord 3lonteagle) would be bound
to say that Mr. Drummond would have said, '° I will not under-
take this duty." Then, as respected the head of the constabulary
for Ireland, why the House admitted last session that the con-
stabuary was in itself a great organised army, and could they
believe that the head of this great force could attend to the
duty they were casting upon him? A better selection than Sir
John Bureoyne could not be made, or better fitted to inspire
more confidence in the Irish people with respect to the future
administration of this law. But with the exception of Sit
Jonn Burgoyne and Sir Randolph Routh they had nn man ot
whom they could depend for the well working of this Bill. Ile
wiseed also to refer to a matter Connected with the constitu-
tion of the 8.11. The letter of Sir George Grey and the Act
itself admitted the fact of large contributions being- expected-
' in aid of the funds, and the privilege of such contributors no-
minating certain persons to the attention of the relief com-
mittee. It was true that by the admission of this patronage
they might calculate en the assistance of some who would have
otherwise remained neuter, but still it was reasonable that the
persons who contributed somewhat liberally should have in seine
degree the power of distributing the funds they had created. There
had been much discussion in Ireland on this point, and the
general opinion was that the subscribers of twenty guineas
and upwards should become cx-ggicio members of the fund
committees. With reference to the principle of enforcing
a rate with the wants of each electoral division, he thought
that such a principle was calculated to throw Ireland int°
a state of irretrievable confusion ; they would require to issue
warrant upon warrant, and thus they would lie adding
difficulties to what was in the first instance far more eileP,
A Noble Lord had drawn a contrast between the people °:
Ireland and of Scotland. He described the latter as a proud
and independent people, who would rather die than submit t°
beg. He recognised in that speech the characteristic of the
country. He (Lord Monteagle) would at once admit the
superiority of the Scottish people, but he would ask, what
had been the effect of out-deer relief on proud and inn':
pendent Scotland, where the people were so independent thet
they would rather die than beg for food ? Thcy had the
re-
sults before them. The House would remember that, se-
cording to the hypothesis of the No ,le Lord, they were 511
inferior race on whom they were to try this new expetilinentti
and, therefore, if with a country like Scotland the measure ha
failed, what security had they for calculating on Ireland?
He was about to read from the report of the Poor-law Con!'
missioners, and there, in a letter from a mutual friend of hie
own and the Noble Lord's, he meant Sir George Sinclair, that
,
gentlemen stated, as the result of the first year's experience 0'
the poor-law in Caithness, that the rate exceeded SOO/. Per
annum, and that incendiaries were busily at work, inciting the
paupers not to take sixpence per day for their labour, whiee'
was a larger amount than they had ever before earned, and ee
concluded that, in a few years, unless some plan were adopted
to prevent the spread of the evil, the greater part of the landed
rental would be absorbed for the mere maintenance of the
paupers in the district. Here were the Scottish peasantry so
proud, so independent, so unwilling to beg from individuals'
reduced to beg from the public. He (Lord Monteagle)
would throw no impediment in the way of this Bill; 0'
he hoped the measure would not be pressed until ,theft
Lordships had well considered its provisions.
Lord BROUGHM was apprehensive lest, by g.l;
right to a claim of outdoor relief, it would destroy the Iv/
foundation of industry in the country, because many eel
who would be ashamed to beg would nut be ashamed to go su
claim relief at their parish.
Lord CAMPBELL would not institute a comparison be
tween the poor of any country ; he thought that, all over tbe,
world, people would rather be idle than work. The offer
gratuitous relief was, he believed, universally demoralising•
ricet
hoped, however, that the results of passing this measure would
not be so dangerous as the Noble Lora (Lord Montea,gle) he
supposed. He did not think that the applications to the Ver;
law guardians would be so frequent as seemed to haunt to°
imagination of his Noble Friend.
The Marcetis of LANSDOWNE, in reply, said that he,
begged their Lordships to remember that when he introduce
this measure, he stated, in the strongest terms, that he Or
ceived the measure to be objectionable—as a permanent tree'
sure, utterly objectionable. Principles like those contained in
the Bill often crept into the Government without it/
being at first aware of the evil. The measure we:
called for only for a short time, and under the most distressing
circumstances, such as he was not prepared to contemplate:
without making some effort to relieve. He was quite repo
to admit that many abuses had arisen under the late Poor flea
lief Act, but he believed, that if that measure had ea bee
passed by the Legislature, there would have been, by al.,
a
time, at least half a million of persons who vi'ne
have perished for want, and of whose eiisteete
their Lordships, the other House, and the Govern-
ment, would have been accountable. It could yea
be denied that a considerable amount of good had been effettea
under that measure ; those works which had been considered
as useless and unproductive were only exceptional cases, °le',
not the rule. He quite concurred in many of the observatillit,
which fell from the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Stanley).
see
thought, however, that questions referring to the better set,
rity of property, and the improved constitution of
strive
boards of union guardians would require the most str've-1
consideration of their Lordships previous to the introduction
a poor-law for Ireland. He thought also tl.at it would he,
and
"
great benefit to reduce the number of small tenements, et,
should be happy if, by the passing of a measure to that offeiett:
the tenants were driven from their small and precarious he.
'4,
ings to a more certain and safer mode of obtaining their
once. He thought that under all the circumstances of the ri;
the present Bill was the hest that could be introduced, and .0
hoped that their Lordships would not refuse their sanction 6
the second reading of the Bill.
The Bill was then read a second time.

Their Lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Feb. 15.
The SPEAKER t,ok the Cnair at Four o'clock.
WOLVERHAMPTON RATES BILL.
On the motion of Mr. BROTHERTON, this Bill 11115
read a second time.
WOLVERHAMPTON GAS
On the motion of the same Hov. MEMBER, this Bill
was also read a second time.
On the motion of an HoN. ME3IIIER, the Sheffie!d
M rliets Bill was read a second time.
LEITH HARBOUR DOCKS DUES.
This Bill was also read a second time.
SII.6'FFIELD CANAL BILL.
Mr, PARKER moved the second reading of this Big;
Lord MORPETH was of opinion that this Bill ghoul'
not be proceeded with any further. In the year 013
the Sheffield Canal Company purchased the lands se
tenements of the river Dunn navigation, subject to Of
expense of repairing the roads in the district. Ia
the year 1836 a similar all to the present wits
introduced, which was negatived, on a division en
the stc,,nd reading, by a majority of 36. Ibe
Bill was afterward, thrown out in another session
by the recommendation ~f a Committee appointed t°
inquire into the subject. He thought it was hard tba!
the townships should be called upon periodically to
oppose this Bill. Re would. therefore, request air
House not to allow the Bill to pals through any furtbe
stage.
Mr. PARKER said that clauses might be introduced
in Committee on the Bill for the protection of the tO
..hips referred to by the Noble Lord. so
Mr. B. DENION said that there was a strong
for refusing to read the Bill a second time. A nail;
company had DOS' purchased the canal company, with
all its responsibilities, and they now sought for a C°'-;
mitt, e, in order to throw off themselves the obligatiOo
they had entered into with their eyes open.
Mr. BRO.FEERTON thought there were aroP-
groulid. for this Bill g.iing into Committee.
Cal taro E lERTON said that he had been ver4
‘trongly can%assed to come down to the house to stIPI"„
the second reading of the Bill, and a statement had be,'„'"
pit into his hand, a rru,al of which had induced b""
• coine .1 wit and kesolwely to oppwe the further Pc°'
‘2;res.3 of this Bill.
Mr. S. WOlt FLEY said, that in consequence of ths
Li•uri.ed Cionisel who had charge of the interests of 01
promoters of the Bill, not having been able to 3.!te°,„
oetore the Committee, an I the conduct of the case beol9
left to a junior, it was no wonder that the Commitse:
should not be able to understand the nature of the Bi'
and that it was summarily dismissed He hoped tb°
the House would allow the Bill to be read a second tiro
r
Mr. STRUTT thought that the Bill ought to be I!.e.
lowed to be read a second time, on the ground that tue
Bill did not receive a full perfect hearing before
the Committee upon the occasion when it was referred
to them.
Mr. STANSFIELD opposed the further progress °
the Bill.
Mr. WARD hoped that, after the speech of his Right
Hon Fiend (Mr. Strutt), they would allow the Bilt
to
be read a fecund time. The points under discussion
!night be considered in Committee.
Mr. E. DENISON thought that this would be a fees,
unu-ual step. He would oppose the further progress 0)
:he Bill.
Lord MORPETH would press the matter to a divi-
sion; even after the speech of his Right Hon. Friend
(Mr. Smut).
The Hou,e then divided, when there appeared,

Fur the second reading 3B
Against it
Majority against the second reading —5
The Bill was consequently lost.
SECOND READINGS.
The following Bills were read a second time:—
, Birkenhead Improvement (Waterworks and Purchased
Birkenhead and •ilaugliton Waterworks).
Bristol end Clifton Oil Gas Company.
British Exchange Company.
Caledonian Railway (Edinburgh Station and Brancheg
, to Granton, &c.)
Eastern Counties Railway Extension (Cambridge t°
Bedford, &c.)
Eastern Counties Railway (Cambridge, Royston, and
Ware line, &c.)
Glasgkiw, Paisley, and Greenock Railway (Branches al
Port Glasgow, and to the Caledonian Railway and
Diversion of Canal).
Leeds, Wakefield, and Midland Junction Railway. a
London and North-Western Railway (Bescot an
Wolverhampton Branch, &c.)
London and North-Western Railway (Orm.sl.tirk and
Rainford Branch, &c.)
Plymouth and Tavistock Turnpike Road.
Salisbury and Yeovil Railway.
Whiteburn and Kelso and Lauder and Kelso Roads.
Tavistock Turnpike Road.
RAILWAYS IN IRELAND.
Mr. B. OSBORNE gave notice, that in the event of
the Bill to stimulate the profitable employment of the
Poor in Ireland on Railways, introduced by Lord George
Bentinck, being thrown out, he should move the fut
lowing resolution—" That is the opinion of this Hong
that one of the real means of promoting the profit-
able employment of the people, and of developing
the resources of Ireland, is fur the Government to make
advances to such railways in Ireland as shall, in th©
judgment of the Railway Cornink,ioners, be worts
likely to be of permanent utility, and calculated to en-
tail no lasting burden upon the country.
Dr. BOWRING moved that the petition from Malts,
dated the 12th of February, he printed with the Votes.

CASTLEBAR UNION.
Lord DUNCAN said that, seeing the Right lion.
qeutleman the Secretary for the Hony Department
0) hi he r;-.; to z.li littUatikiii lkiapeuLlllg al°
Castlebar union. From a report published in 'the
papas this day, it appeared that the
.Lord-Lieu-,

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