The Sun.
London, England, 1812-12-12 00:00:00

GOLD COTN BILL.

Mr. WEIITBRREAD said, that as the Report of
the Gild Coin Bill was to be brought up ,that
night, he was desirous first to have the sense, of
the House' upon the Resolution that had been
passed in a former Session, declaring, that, in
public estimation, a guinea and a Bank .note'were
equivalent'.
The I3esolution was then read, and
Mr. WHITBREAD said,. that without t; Dulling
the !louse any furthcr„he would move that the
•
Resolution he rescinded.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER CX-
piTSSed his determination to support the Res°lu
‘tion.

. .
Mr. WHITBREAD said, he would take the sense
of the Hottse upon it. ..
The Gallery was then cleared, and a division took
place.

Fur Mr. Whtbreadts
Aga insit.it
Majority again:s4 it

26

On being readmitted to the Gallenv, Mr. Hus 7
missos was upon his legs. He was, be said, di's::
posed to think' that .outside the walis of, that
House it would be no easy matter to find any, per-
on who 'was of the same opinion, expressed in
the Resolution upon which the House had di-
vic!ol. If any doubt was entertained of the fact,
t het.ter•mode of proof could be adopted than
releirring to the Bin' now upoh file table. ''he
,Chariecilor of the txchequer seemed to have gone

The first consideration was, that the current coin
of the country must have a fixed value.. The Se-
cond, That where paper currency exists, it must
correspond to the denomination of the 'coin ;
and the third, which led; to the Bill, That tQ
prevent depreciation, it was necessary to establish
by law, equivalency, between coin and paper, The
result of. such a doctrine, as this would be, that
even if bank paper were go far depreciated as that
10001. in that cerrency were necessary for the pur-
chase of a quartern loaf, still its value was equal
to that of gold or silver.. The Chancellor of the
ExChequer had himself admitted, that bank paper
may be depreciated, by an allusion which he made
upon a former occasion to the state of the cur-
rency in Ireland. He was convinced that that
Right Honourable Gentlemen would not,. even
upon -the ground of necessity, countenance any
violati©n of the principles
.of justice. He was
surprised, however, how any person could re-
concile some parts of the present Bill to.such
principles. Tie had been. informed that the Trea-
sury
last year sent bank notes. to Canada for the
purpose of paying the troops there. He did - not:
know whether the notes were -wrapped up in
papers having the resolution printed on them, but'
this he knew, that they were disposed of at a dis-
count of 30'per cent. How, then, he would ask,,
could any person establish the equivalency of such
notes with coin ? Rehm] before voted forthis Bill,
merely from The necessity lie saw of , having -re-
course to such a Measure, from the state in Which
the currency of the country .was placed. With-
out such a Bill it could not be denied that debtors .
might have been subjected to very grievous- hard-
ships, , He had, however, voted for the
merely-from aleeling"of that necessity. lie was
not one of the, persons who• considered the re-
strictions upon Bank payments in cash as a most
happy discovery. There Were some who looked
-upon it as a!grand financial invention, from which
innumerable advantages were to arise. He
considered it in that light. However he felt to-
wards the first part of the Bill, he could not but
condemn the second .part... It was, in his opinion,
a violation of all,law and justice. It was, inflict,
not More or less than attempting by Act cf Par,-
liament to make a part equal. to the whoic7 and
so far from producing the expected effect of forc-
ing guineas Into circulation at their nothinal
wa-
lue; the very contrary was the conseqUence, inso-
much-that there was at the present tine hardly a
guinea to be met with. He would venture to say,
that of guineas had been exported from
England since the.passing of this Act ; and this
not through any want of •vigilance on the part of
thelreasury, or on the park of the Custom-house
Officers., but-because. it lias impossible to prevent
their being exported as, Under existing circum-
stances, the premium was much greater than ,the
risk. It was said this Bill had the effect of pre-
venting two prices. He did not think that the
existence of two prices would be found 8-Q: great
an, evil as some Gentlemen imagined. . In Xing
William's time, guineas had not been tied down
.to 21 shillings, and. he knew of ,no great incou-
vcnicuce which had resulted from,its being other
wise. Two prices-had existed in Ireland, and no
very alarming inconvenience was.produced by it.
This, he contended, was proved by several other
instances which he brought forward. He was,
however, of opinion, that a provision should be
made, since the public creditors could only re-
ceivetheir dividends in Bank notes, that all other
creditors for existing contracts should he paid, in
the same way. ,The second part of the Bill he
thought unnecessary. &.• -
Mr. ROSE' answercil the principal arguments of
the-last speaker, His Right lion, Friend had
spoken of Prank notes sent to,,Canada being de,
predated 30 per cent. He .knevrnot, where the
Right. Hon. Gentleman, got his information, but
he (Mr. R.) bad not learned that any hank notes
had been sent to Canada. lie did not deny the
truth of what bad been stated by his Right Hon.
Friend, but was- ignorant of the fact of Bank notes
having been sent there. If, however, notes had
been sent to Canada, still he
,did not understand

how they could he' depreciated 30 per cent, as
Bank paper must at leasr be' equal to Bills of
Exchange, as it visas payable at.sight in this coun-
try. Adverting to , the recommendation of •the
Bullion Committee, to resume payments in specie
at the end of two years, he thOught if
,any one
point was more clearly established than another,
it was this, that if their suggestiOn had been com-
plied with, it would have involved the co,mtry in
difficulties from.which it never could have been
extricated. To resnine cash payments within the
two years was totally impraCticable, as gold could
not be rirocur&l, and if it. had been procured, a
new coinage would not have removed the evil.

This. was proved most satisfactorily in the v,'rit
ings of Mr. Parris, a Gentlemen who .wrote
about- the middle of last century, who: had
shewn that so long as gold did not come
to the Mint at the standard price, the issu-
ing new coin would do no good, as it would
Immediately.. be melted , down. The present Bill
had been rendered necessary by' 'a -Noble Lord,
whom, as on a. former occasion, he would not
.name. The most serious ineonvenicuCies would in
his opinion result trom the establishment of two
prices in this country. The, Right Hpn. Gent.
had stated, that two prices existed in.lchig Wil-
liam's time, and that lie was not aware great in-
donvenienp',es mulled from this circumstance. Ile
(Ir.-R..,) coald state that much confusion and great
inconvenience had resulted from it, and, twice in

one year Parliament had found it .necessary to fix
the value of the Guinea: 'Could not believe
Guineas had gone to France through this Act,
though he admitted many:had gone since it passed,
as the balanceof trade had been against this country.
He then proceeded to shew, by kvariety .of com-
parative tat.cinents, that the issues of Bank paper
had nothing to do, either with the rate of Ex-

change or NNith the price of gold. The surnswhich
the ►►'ar and various circumstances had :Wade it ne-

cessary to send out of tbe'country (which in one
year had, amounted to no less than '2 4 ,(;0 0,0 00 .)
added to the stoppage of our trade, sufficiently
accounted for the high price of gold. 'This bill,
if it did not keep, gold in the 'country could not
,have the eirect of sending it out, and he was most
anxious that it should pass, to prevent the esta-
blishment of two prices, which he thought the
greatest evil the .country had to dread

„mug , presen, ate o
things resulted not from,a flepreciation of
.Bank
paper, hut from the high Trice of gold. - He,
however thought the value' of land, and its pro-
ductions, had `risen with it. .A man who received
a guinea. in the ordinary course of.cieulatiOrr, had
no rigl:t to dispose of it as litillion.for more than
twenty-one shillings ; and fo him .wlio would
dispose of it to his tradmuen for twenty-one
shillings, it-was worth no Inure than a pound note
and a shilling.
Mr. PROTHEROE spoke in favour of the Bill, as
it afforded protection to the Yeomanry of the
country.

r KESTONU.

• 1.1 T.J

t gt

An Hon.. Member, whose name we could not
learn, ;supported the Bill.
The CHANCELLOR of the ExcliEaur.it offered a
few words, in explanatioli of one point touched
Upon by the last speaker but one, which were not
distinctly heard in the gallery.
Mr. WHITBREAD contended that this Bill would
not prevent two prices obtaining in the country.
Two prices were a1;.,-,ady in existence, for he had
a letter in his pocket from Bath, which .stated
that as many potatoes were bought in the market
for 31. :3s. in gold, as • could be putaased for ,4/.
7s. in Bank paper. He again defended Lord King. ,
The practice o): buying and selling he as-
serted
to have become universal, an.d this Bill
went to make men who had guineas, hoard them,
or dispose of them in contravention to the law.

.
Mr. PRESTON CXplailled.
. lirr. Hy.rtpEßT declared' his opinion of the.eilui-
valenCy ofpaper and gold currency fOr all legal
_..
purposes. He bud in all
.his transactions received
and paid tliCin indiscriminately.

Sir EDWARD MAY spoke also in favour of the
Bill.

Mr. TirM. SMITH SpOkn ari'aillSt it.

Mr. STF,PIIEN' and Mr—Alderman SMITH sup-
pcy ,ed it ; and after explanations from-Mr.Whit-
bre.ld, Mr. Huskisson, Mr. Rose, Mr. i'rotheroe,
and a feWobservationS from Mr. Gurney, Who as-
cribed the depreciatiOn ot• papei• no Cto our ex-
tensive tra,:e, but our enormous debt, the ques
tion was put. and carried without a division.

The CUA.N.cru-mit of the EXCHEQUER moved,
That the-Bill be read a third tione'•tomorrow.--
To which Mr.'Whitbread and Mr. W. Smith ob-
jected;' on account of its being unnsual'for the
House to Meet on Saturday at this period of , the
Session. After some conversation., the' motion
Was ordered•to stand for Monday. The question
of meeting to-morrow was again taken up ; and
the Speaker observed; that if any Annual Bills of.
Supply which had not. been debated, were in want
of a step, the House was at all sessions in the
habit.of meeting on the Saturday.- The opposi-
tion to this poini was then, given up. •
The Household Bill went-through a Committee,
the report received, and to be taken into further
consideration on Monday.

PALMPIRSTON presented the Army Esti-
mates, and gave notice tkat he woitid 'on Mon-
day, move for a sum, on account; in com-
mittea of Supply, on Monday;‘ iri:order to avoid
any disciission of the subject till after the bob-
• 1
days.

• Mr..-WnARToN moved for and obtained leave,
to bring in a Bill to give,the Deputy Post Master
a power of franking letters. It was read a first
time Second reading on 'Monday.
- Adjourned till To7-morrow (Saturday).
PRIVATE ACTS OF PARLIAMENT.

It may be useful to those who have occasion to
obtain Private Acts of Parliament during the pre-
sent Session, to be informed, that Fridity, the 18th
instant, is the last day on which Petitions for
that purpose can be presented to the House of
•
Commons.

MAILS,
AantvED-1 Dublin. Due--1 Cadiz, 1 Lisbon, 1 Guernsey,
- 1 Jersey, 1 Brazils, 9 Dublin, 5 Waterfurd.•

PRICE, OF STOCKS
TRIM DAY AT TWELVE WCLOCK:
Consols

THE SUN.

So4RXI QUIS-JOICEIZE FALSUM AUDRAT ?

LONDON,
SATL'RDAI, DFCtMBER 12, 1812.

• Dispatches were this morning received from
Marquis WELLINGTON, dated Puente Guinahlo,
on the 25th ult. The Allied Armies occupied pre-
cisely the same positions, and the enemy had
made no movement since the date of the last
Dispatches.

Ourl)over letter yesterday mentioned ' the ar-
rival of a person at that port froM Dieppe, who
had immediately set off for London. It was
,thediately rumourcd,.that this person was n -Mes-
senger with some propositions froth Prance. He
is,, we nndersland, a gentleman of the name of
11ROWNE, who has resided a long time in France,
and who obtained leave to come home in this
Prussian vesel.—Several reports we-ie al;o spread
in the course of the (lay of the death of BuoNA-
PARTE, and of his being taken prisoner, but
they did not rest upon any authority.—Ac-
counts of the disturbed state of the Southern
part of France continue to be received.—A. Gen-
tleman just arrived from Basle states., tlilit within
a few weeks past, above 300 persons have been
shot. in Marseilles for insurrectionary conduct.

On Thursday, Count LikwEil, Ambassador
Extraordinary from the Emperor of RUSSIA to our
Court, landed at HanVich, from a Russian fri-
gate, accompanied by Count Woßorizow, his Se-
cretary of Legation. His Excellency and Suite
arrived in town yesterday.
Late accounts from Bilboa state a report that
CAFFARELLI had.passed through Bayonne, on his
way to Paris, with 2000 cavalry, and about 4000
infantry. MINA, it is added, pursued his rear-
guard to some distance.

tic tt-.

SECOND
Fp-griu ,

SUN - FFICE,

HALF-PAST .TWO o'cLOCII•

Lieutenant-Colonel IigOWN, the 'Gentleman
who 14nded-on Thursday evening at Dover frow
Dieppe, Aide-de-Camp to the King. 0t
Saxony.- He isiuerely come over to take pol-
session of a considerable estate, to whieli
has succeeded by the death ot his brother.
Paris Papers of the sth had been received at
Dieppe they conta;.a no fresh Bulletin, bit
merely an -unofficial paragraph from Smolensk°,
stating that the army was retreating in the beat
order. •

We have just received Lisbon Paper's., from
which the folk king are extracts
LISBON, Nov. 29.—0 n the. 24th, the Held.
quarters reached Freynada..

Respecting the movements' of the 'enemy, re-
port says, they have retired, some towards Sa
in, a:a, and some towards Placentia and Tor°
Zamora, but nothing positive is known on this
head.

The Lisbon Gazette of the 30th November/
contains a short Dispatch from the Marquis ()i
WELLINGTON, dated Freynada, 25th Novembe6
stating, that the greater part of the eneuiy's
forces which crossed the Tonnes had repasseil
and that most of his missing soldiers had come io
and joined their regiments.