The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-03 00:00:00

NAVY ESTIMATES.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that it was the Intention of her.
,
Majesty's Government. to proeeed with the remainder o the
navy estimates on Friday night, after the ordnance estire .ales
had been disposed of.
SITES FOR SCOTTISH CHURCIIES•
Mr. BOUV ERIE rose for the purpose of moving, for a
Select. Cenmentee to inquire whether and in what part of
Scotland, ;nt under what circumstances, largenum-
bcrs of her Maji sty's subjects bed been deprived of the
means of religious worship by the refusal of certain pro-
prietors to grant them sites for the erection of churchese
The subject had been brought before the attention of th
House in the lest sesnon' and a Bill was it Iroduced by the
Honourable Member for Perth, the S, teretary-at- ar,
which did not, however, reach to a oecond reading.
A disposition had been shown to wait and see what the pro-
prietors would do in the matter, and the Bill of lastsyeaxce r
ti on
was
withdrawn; but he was sorry to say. that with th-p
of one or two, the same wan of disposition to affar d sites for
places of worship still prevailed as did in 1845 a .nil 184;
He was not a member of the Free Church, and "-
could not be misled by zeal in its favour ; but he advo coned its
just claims for redress, as he was persuaded great iojue nice had
been done. No less than 470 of the best ministers of • the Esn,
tablished Church of Scotland had left its pale, followed b y2O-
of the lay officers, and, it was calculated, accompai tied by
about one-third of the people of Scotland. They I, eft b
cause they felt it their duty to do so in the mainten ante
the principle that the Church was indel endent of th e Go-
vernment in religious matters, a principle in which he eild-
tirely agreed.—( Hear, heat'.)`' ,No better proof co," t
be afforded of the truth of this principle, than Vol' aee
that this House, composed of persons of various ineleg,°"-
denominations, would be called on to discus the peel iositil
of the advisability of adding to the number of the Br ;hoes °
the Church of Enelend. Whether that principle Ito true
or not, some of the briehtest arid best Ministers an (I Ws
zealous and sincere members of the Scottish Kirk had t haight
it right, on the assertion of it, to leave. the pale wontedthe
Establishment. ralany expected that this secession
not last long, but what has since occurred ;hot°
that such an anticipation was groundless. No less aSr en than
1,354,00 e/ had been contributed for the support. of t he lees
Church since the disruption had taken place. •,It had to'°
teachers and 4,10 ministers in connexion with it. It had tw,
normal schools, and had contributed to 191 schools shnse'
averaging IOU!. each. It had been stated. that the
schism was not likely to be lasting, but the event p roved 11°
erroneous was that calculation. He thought, therefore, that
such a body had a right at least to a favourable het wing.
hau been most prompt in inquiring into and relieving • the Pr"
.rent famine, and from a letter written by the Lord . ktivocate
to the Secretary of State for the Home Departure De
comber 10 last, it would be seen how strenuous had lies
're -
exertions of the Free Church for the relief of the 'disc
lie maintained that if this body were seeking favour at t""
hands of the House, enough had been shown that they ever
entitled to it. But they did not ask for anything of the lao"
all that they asked was that full justice might be done then'
They claimed full and free toleration at their hands,
and nthe tree exercise of their religious belief, without
hindrance or interruption. They . alleged that ei
had been unjustly treated, and in support of tit°,
allegation he would mention one or two of the instances of
injustice of which the parties complained.; but, in doing' so, h;
did not wish to (liscuse the motives or intentions (.
individuals. One of the cases he Wished to refer tO
occurred on the property of his Grace the Duke of Ltee-
cleuch, but in speaking of that particular instance, he hen ntt.
wish to speak otherwise than in terms of respect of the matenf.
in which the Noble Duke performed the duties which his ran` •
and high station in this country imposed upon him ; ;not stilli
the Noble Duke was but a man, and of course subjected •
to all his weakness and infirmities. (Hear, hear.)"
Ile said there were two congregations of that Church uP°n,'.:
the Duke's property, and both complained of interference wit"'
their worship. One of these was at Canobie, in Dunefriessbirer'
and the other was at Wanlockhead, in the same connty. ails
church at Canobie consisted of 600 people. The Duke ta, ea.
been repeatedly applied to for a site upon which to build
church, for his Grace was the sole possessor of lit:
land in the district. When the disruption first took places tnneinn
con rogation met at a cress road, and subsequently in a n
belonging to his Grace ; but. the Duke applied to the CO°
of law, arid obtained an injunction against them. . After thar
however, some arrangement was made with his Grace, ancient
which this congregation were allowed to erect a tei-c,
on a field of his, and thus tney continued of
worship in that tent throughout the year, but such a plaeee-ip
worship amounted, in his opinion, to a prohibition of
altogether. The other church was at Wanlock-headt
h,ghest ground in Scotland, a place where only green
could be grown for cattle.—( Hear, hear.) The people nets;
,el
poor, and miners by occupation ; but seven hullo to
of these, or seven-eighths of the whole population, belongs list
the Free Church. 'these people there worshipped in a tenets
the open air, but their tent had been destroyed some we
ago, and they had been obliged, when the west ter
weuld permit, to worship in the epen air. Their el. 01"‘
had parted from the Seroch Church at the time of tv,
disruption, and had cgritinced amongst theM teaching and el,a,
hurting his people. But even he could scarcely find a resti ft.
place. His family was thirty miles distant from the plaqee:
his ministrations ; and h', himself, as if almost denied a 1041" en
in the town, lived in one room, only nine feet Warta.
('the Hon. Member theu proceeded to read a letter written
ie.
him by an eye-witness of the, mode of conducting worehlP 0„.
the Free Church of Scotland ; the writer stated that the :re
wegation, consisting o upwards of 1,001 persomh
assembled round a canvass tent for the purpose of hen coo
Dr. Candlish preach; the tent' would not hoSe
contain one. third of the people, and they were costtio
Celled to meve off to a mead .kt the foot of the no,
here ihey listened to the Rev. Gentleman for upwards glued_
hour and three quarters in the pouring rain.) Such (c" thec,,•
the Hen. I.ember) was the state of the tenants upon Ondip
ta, es of the Duke of Buceleuch, erid such had been thteiirthee
lion fur the period ot four years, since the rupture
tabest.ed Church. lie wouldeontrast the conduct owfl,V...rettethhaleti:
Duke wits that of tl:e Earl of Aberdeen. It was well as ;vete--
the latter Nobleman used every means in his eoweteeti4 eenee•
bier of the late Governmentoto stay the movelnentace, lee was.
Church party ; but so soon as the severance took I
t" g ant sites.;
among the first ot the landowners ot Scotland •- upon,
for building places
.of wo,ship to those Per°n-oo orea'
his estates who wished to worship Goo ac e°
ing to the forms of toe Free Church of Scotland'"
The Duke of Buecleuch had erected a magnificent-chapel .
Dalkeith, and he eonencted the worship according to. the rifea-
-4
of the Episcopal Church, yet he refused .to grant to others.
the right of worship which he claimed for himself. Tr;
two caes bad retereeee to the Lowlands ; bue ~ _l.
came to the Highlands. in w hich
I had been going lorwarrn ln the islands of Skye anlid, Oa
I there was a large property owned by Lord Maeda:the Free"
i this property there were 4,000 parsons belonging ,th„,, people
Church, yet hot Lordship had thought fit to refuse - • the
rohibtting
any sites for their -chapels ; thus practically p
bbourboo-
Public worship of these people. In the ne.g aboun
of
,Ar.lnaniurenan Sir James Riddell had a prone'. le north-
pr oceeio,einor;,..
forty miles in length by five indes broad. It was in MI,
west of rgyllshire. , There were 1,100 people belostr'eri.
tire Free Church, and Sir James Riddell was Ifnett''
Dissenter from the -Establirhed Church, vet he refused SS,
lending the right he claimed hiciseli to others.
ti ler
Stratlisi.ey there-was a tract of country miles long t.ig to'
broad, with from 2,000 to • 3,00) persons belon earl
or
the Free Chureh. The proprietor was the t,
Seatield, and- he had also' refused sites ; 5° nit
the people hail to worship in the open air' 4,0:
' another district in the Western Highlands, in Hayti-h' insren
persona were. obliged to worship in the open air. In tZeence'
of Mull .they wire obliged to celebrate the °r
of their •commen Christianity in a place
cattle wee:l.'. housed. Now there were s"inthee
the eases where this body had a right to complain of t` d ths;
convenience to which they were sutnecteri, and he WO% th
the recital of them would indu...e the House to sanct,bell
proptasition he made for an inquiry into to Op
What were the consequences of this sts
things? There was, first of all, the evil to end,
he had. adverted, namely, that a large body of the tl:d
were entirely prohibited from worshipping God, atejosrf
addition to this, whir ha was an evil of no ° ac'
magnitude, there was great exasperation and acerbitnvaiio;
count of the oestacles which hail oceasioned such a delTio suet
The peril., were in a frightful state of destitution, ao"teil'
circumstances he shout, fancy the people ought to be Poolis%sn.;
with places in a tech to meet and offer up prayers of ere' io
tion to the great Giver of all good. But they 'entivi,
privet' of all places of worship by the Prence :e
he hail already related to the Reuse. He et
}i prepared to nvest, any specific remedy. "-the
hi.i.selt he was perfectly ready and willing to go tl Or°,
length of the remedy proposed by his Honourable Frieno
him—namely, to refer property required for sites t
judicial tribunal to ha,,e its value decided. That vrae thee a-it 11,.
pursued in the ease of a railw iy, and why shoule
.excluded in this important instance? If A t, b/
which could do him no benefit, passed throng net
park he could not object to it, and f°r e ttt9e
lle would remit] I the House that the reply, in that ca-not
tbd
that the public convenience was required But it W 55 11,e ,s
convenience of the commonwealth. A railway from teee fente
Dorchester could not conduce to the aceotnrie-ontio
of the commonwealth, but only' to the con wesol
of the public, in the oeighb ,urhood, and the
tope
of private individuals. On that ground, and that 044,
alone the Legislatte e should interfere. Now was the norhti,
taken without compensation. It was damnunt leo 4
lint t here were oases where no compensation Waso,ainell4.,
The Hon. Member then quoted the Metropolitan P neenT,
Act, forbidding all to let fur hire certain buildings °h, iteij
such as were contrary to the provisions of tnon, seoh
Here he said parties were in the receipt of high ri,eir fire
yet the Legislature stepped in and deprived them of the' Pure
perty. The seine was the case of the Commons fete of
Act, when commons, as any one knew, belonged to ad that en
divienals; and yet they were deprived of these, ari,esioet
the ground merely of the public health. He would go.j quo-the
ease, which was more in point than any of those he ha bad ne,
Under certain circumstances the Court of Session bed "er
power to divide parishes, and the presbytery alsentors tee,
power of taking the land of the he,-„e See
such parish so divided, to the extent of t°-e
for 'no
as glebe land and for the purpose of building a reanieeere'
clergyman appointed to the parish. He begged' tetneetlet
to move for a Select Committee to inquire into the
of
Mr. MART seconded the motion. It was 10 itte°
upon any Hon. Member on moving for a Select Conlin, se
tee
that House to show, first, that there was a grievraen;nitri,
secondly, that by the appointment of ',nu, beep
some remedy might be suggested. He le"h.nie f *
thought the existence of a grievance n /hat Of
proved by his Hon. Friend—a grievance no less thaved of oe,
real portion of the subjects of Scotland being deprt
tneansin
means of religious worship, and if that was not a goad
.13iie
he (lid not know what was.—(.Tear, hear.) in a for
Honourable Friend moved for leave to bringmenneersao
upon the subj, et, as was done by the lion. earl of
Perth last session, it might perhaps have_ "tight% two
that he was about to interfere with bad ieee
private property. llis Honourable Frienee, Seonte
objects in view in moving the appointment
tthese
pt'ee,
Committee—viz., to inquire and expose-- coo:malt on
the legitimate functions of a Parliamentary that elle Poor
The people of Scotland were justified in say
ingeht he in ePbtlls
prietors of Scotland, however excellent they rnin„,, no,
respects, had proved themselves intolerant in tn:they Vi
they had duties to attend to as well as rights•
say with their national poet—
" A king may make a belted knight'
keoVI
A marquis, duke, and a' that' est ,n,
But whether they were rea-quis or duke, the to
e,annae_e
they had dun( s to pc: form as well as rights
hther'"eh 010
Because he thought the claims of the Free Li_econcliog
founded in justice, he had great pleasure in 3
!notion. resei4
On the question being put,
Sir G lets II GE GREY said, in reference
question, he wound have to call the attentio this
_uhiece
what took place on former occasions when nhat'thet' mono",
brought under consideration. Ile had hope d
";
ththeeriPen9°„etet:
dndthteitho;:atbleo
made and the debate thereon would have
ing forward of the subject no longer nteerssre
th sites would opt.
comparatively few proprietors who refuste e eeeling, and e,Pte
seen the policy of being influenced by firnst "
time the euWto
nions expressed by the House. On the
Baronet opeoAsir,
(term under consideration the Right Hon.
i). Al. Stewart, that ha hoped that the re n,el,e re.
( Sir James Graham) stated to his late
plraoneic:rre
the necessity of giving way
not accede to the prayer a the Free C 2
on the subject
urcb, that so
inetbtteldrtifirfwietciedlYA