The Sun.
London, England, 1823-03-25 00:00:00

Atuationa offended against the spirit. !!f the MI Queen Anne; arid'
it was his intentiorltafter the liplidays, to bring this subject be-
fore the House. '
Sir J. YORKE; consistently .With the voteswhich he had
given respecting the Post-masters-general, and the Lords Of
the Admiralty, should vote on the present- occasion for the abo-
lition of the four ' Volonial Agents, by consenting, to strike off
from the vote noel under consideration, the surn.proposed .by:

the lion. Gentleman.
•
Mr. HUSKISSON !hewed that the Colonial Agents were
paid out of the lociifreventies of the Colonies with which they
were connected. If the object of the Honourable Gentleman
were to change the system, he-would not accomplish it by car-
rying his 'present motion, and he thought it would be ahard-
ship on the Colonies not to allow them to appoint their own
agenta.to watch over their interests in this country. He denied
that any of them were paid out of the Army Extraordinaries.
To the remarks of the Honourable Gentleman respecting,the
incompatibility of the situations which he held, he deemed it
unnecessary to reply till some proof- should be offered of his
having neglected.those who had named him their agent, or of
his having failed his public duty. lf he were aware of ani
conflicting duties-growing out of those situations, he would be
the last man whnwould submit to retain them.
Mr. CREEvEY and Mr. Husaissow severally explained.
Mr. T. WILSON thought the Colonial Agents ought to be
from Colonial Funds, distinctly set apart for that purpose,
so that the expense of them should not in any way fall upon the
people of this country. ,
Sir R. WlLSON',.adverting'to the question respecting Prize
Money, thought. the House ought to
.be ipforined, when the
account would he wholly settled. ' '
Mr. ARBUTHNOT believed he could'ventitie to say, the
whole had been paid by Government, :and had been soma time
in the hands of the agents. •
'ln answer to a question by Mr. II u 31
Mr. HUSKISSON stated a charge to have been Made in
the present year in consequence of some misunderstanding,be-
tween the Government and the East India Company, who
thought themselves 'eraitledsto the payment of 106,000/. for a
quantity of cinnamon deliveredlait year, which Ministers con.,
sidered had been previously paid for.
Mr. WIGRAM defended the claim set up by the East'lndia
Company. ,
Mr. II USKISSON •explained.
Mr. HUME maintained that the only way he had of atom':
plishing the object which he had in vieviwas by pressing -the
Amendment which he had submitted tnthe House. .
The House then divided, when the-numbers were— ,
• For the Resolution . - 74
Against it . - 43 •
Majority .. .
Upon the vote for-the Charge of Convicts,
Mr. HUME, in, rising to put a question relative to the con.
' tracts for clothing; alluded to the previous discussion, and said
that he always wished, to be held responsible for whatever
charges and statements he made. With regard to the case of,
Sir Peregrine Maitland and Mr. Gourley, .he . entreated the
House to wait until the papers were before them, and then he
was confident that, the statements of that Gentleman would be
proved. He complained that the Hon. Member opposite had
made free to say that he made allegations against mdividuall
which he could not afterwards support by evidence. What he
had said of Sir T. Maitland was, that he was tyrannical and
-op pressive in his Government of the 'lonian Islands. These
allegations he considered to have been proved by the docu-
ments which he produced and laid on the table of the House.
That officer ought not to have been allowed to remain in com-
mand where he had disgraced the name of an Englishman,
and-
rendered it hated and detested. The Hon.. Member ought to
allow, that he had not charged these transactions upon Sir T.
Maitland within the last four. months. 'He admitted. that since
that period there had been a change of' policy in the Governor.
Rut he would say and repeat, that the documents which he
formerly laid before the House, proved him to be a scourge
and a tyrant to the Islanders, and shewed that he had committed
acts of iniquity anti injustice which Were a dishonour to this
country. ' •'
Mr. DAWSON made an inaudible observation upon ,the
subject of the question put by Mr. Hume ,relative to the vote
befbre the House, ,
Mr. WILMOT said; he understood, that during his absence
the Hon. Member for Aberdeen had revived the subject
of the charges against Sir Peregrine Maitland. The Hon.
Member bad been specifically told, that irhe would take any
part of the petition of Mr. Gourley, and bring forward a di.
rect measure upon it, he would be met in time fullest and most
distinct manner. What the Honourable Member desired more
he could not understand.--(Hear, hear!)—With regard to
those reiterated, vague and general attacks upon the chant.
ter and conduct of Sir Jr. Maitland,, he protested against them,
and he 'hoped the House would support him in doing so.—
(Checro—The lion. Member said that' therehad been a change
of policy in Sir T. Maitland's Administration within the last-
four months ; and, in reply to that, he challenged the Hon.
Member to shew any act 'of the Government during those
four months, which differed • from the acts of the previous
eight, According to the lion. Member the people of the
Islands were only kept down by the sword. He would just
make one statemeni to the House' and then leave it to decide
upon the truth of that assertion. Corfu was at present garri-
soned by eight hundred men, whereas, when ein possession
of the French, and in time of war, it
,contained twelve
thousand troops. These soldiers, too, were all stationed in
the works, and there were none quartered upon the Country.—
Would the Honourable Member say that it was possible for
the whole population, if they were really discontented, to be'
put down by such a proportion of force. in Cephalonia the
number of men cabable of bearing 'arms was /5,000 ; and the
English troops stationed there 500. In Santa.Meura there were
15,000 inhabitants of that descripfion, and 350 English. In
Ithaca and the other islands there was the samealispraportion:
- It was impossible, therefore, that the lion. Member could
maintain Ins proposition without giving a very bad (Minion
of the islanders sylione he 'Meant to advocate and support.—.
But the Hon. Member would say,
,the population had been.
disarmed; and allowing that to be the case, the- Numera-
tive numbers of the English were so few that they could not,
put down the inhabitants by physical force. Ile would also
refer the House to the accounts of the late elections. He. did
not know whether it was in one of the Honourable Member's
speeches, but it had been stated either there, or in those re-
marks by which the lion. Member's • speeches were preceded
and succeeded elsewhere, that the inhabitants were so disgust.
ed with the adMinistration of the Government, as to take no
iatereat whatever in the elections, and in the privileges and
rights which they-possessed. -In Corfu the title to vote consisted
in the, posiession of property amounting in English money to
about 701. or 801. a yeat Out of 520 electors thus qualified, 462
voted at the last election; and this not secretly, but viva vow,
and hi public. .In Cephalonia there were 530 electors, and 337
of them voted ; in Zente 340, and 291 voted ; in Santa Illaura
173 voted out ,Of 341 ; in Ithaca, 127 out of 138 ; and in the
smaller islands,all voted who had the right. Now he would
ask the HouSe Whether there could be any greater proof of the
confidence they plaCed' in the English Government. and of the
value which they attached to their prieileges. Yet the lion.
Member had said, that the people took no intereet whatever in
public affairs, and, never came forward to enjoy these political
advantages.' Another Proof of the goodness of the Government
was to be found in the.fact, that Corti!, without fresh taxation,
and notwithstanding the failure of.the vintage and olive-crops,
had encreased its revenue one-seventh within the last
.year.—
Throughout the Government of Sir T. Maitland, justice was
better preserved, and the civil government was better carried on
in all its departments, than they ever hadbeen at any. previous
time. lrof
"which regard to the- acts of tyranny owhich the Hon.
Member spoke, -be should always be ready to maintain that
the banishment of those persons who signed the petition was
fUlly justified. But they had now been recalled, and not one
native of the island was at this moment under banishment.—
Sir 'l'. Maitland had only used the-necessary force and firm.
nes* which the edmieistration of the new Government required,
and his exertions hed entitled bim to the highest praise. In
- fact the most undeniable proof of this was to. be found in the
prosperous ceseditioli of the cowatry which he governed ; but-if
the Hon. Member for Aberdeen, was not satisfied with that
proof, and wished to meet hinvupon chater ground, he was per-
fectly to grant whatever papers lie might demand that were
necessary for such a purpose.
,Mr. BL:NNET said, that the comparison of the Hon. Se-
cretary between • the present forth in Corfu and that of the
French was inadmissible. The 11.2,000 French troops were an
army formed there by Buonaparte in time of . war, to hold the
islanda against'expected attack: ' With regard to the elle•
gations made by his }ion. Friend (Mr. flume) he .always found
them supported by facts; and he believed that the change and
the improvements in the condition of the people of the lonian
Islands were owing to his statements and the discussions in that
I louse. He-never heard the conduct of. Sir T. Maitland vindi-
cated any where else., Out of doors, if they asked thirty people
following, they all,agreed, that whatever might be his motive,
be had contrived to render the name of the English, formerly so
popular, bated and detested.
Mr. Secretary PEEL expressed his surprise, at hearing the
Hon. Member for Aberdeen complain of sweeping and general
condemnationS. When the Hon. Member attacked individuals
and establishment* hi that way himself, he .must expect some
warmth from those whose duty lt, was to defend them. Ile
could not conceive a Situation ,more delicate than that of an
officer in the discharge of eminent& and painful duties to be lia-
ble to such. attacks and charges as .the Hon. Member thought
property make. lie consideredi his lion. Friend. to be 1111.1t.e
had
in fife warmth 'hefted expreased at the charges a ich
had been vaguely brdlight fora/aril against Sir 11.•
What were those. charges ? Why such as, if true, must cause
the dismissal of that gallant officer. What was the language
in which they had beert made? lie lied been called a scourge

and a tyrani,-arid a "disgrace -to. 'the British mattie..—(Hear,"
hear !) Was this language, and were these charges which ought
to be made against an officer at a.distance front the country, in
the discharge of his duties, at a time too and..in a manner that
precludedanydeeision upon their truth or falsehood?—(Cheers.).
—He was extremely happy in having this, opportunity of bear-
ing testimony to the merits of Sir T. Maitland. That officer
was Governor of Ceylon when helMr. Peel) held the office for
two years which his Hon. FrienV(Mr.Wilmott) now filled so
worthily.; and he never saw any man actuated by a greater de.
sire of honouring and raising the British name.—(Hear, hear,
heari)—He was not surprised-when,his Hon. Friend had found.
the charges, lately preferred against one Governor of the name
:of Maitland, to be unfounded, that he should anticipate a simi-
lar result to those made against another. ,
Lord A. HAMILTON thought the accusations of his Hon.
Friend (Mr. Hume) were to be taken rather as against the Go-
vernment than against the individual. The Government who
employed Sir T. Maitland, and justified his proceedings, of
course adopted his acts.— (Cheers and laughter from Mr.
Wynn.)—He defied the Right Hon.. President of the Board of
Control, who showed so muchievity, to deny the justice of the
accusation founded uppn the case of M. Martinengo, who had
been condemned to ten years''' imprisonment, on a charge so
vague tfiat it was perfectly unintelligible. He defied the united
talents of' the Ministry to make out' an adequate justification
upon this particular case, and. he. only referred to it as one
among others. It was a most atrocious case, and it had been
placed upon record. lie did not conceive that his Hon. Friend
,intended to make any personal charge.against Sir T. Maitland.
Mr. PEEL did not see how the word " tyrant" and " scourge"
cookl be applied to any man otherwise than personally.—(HLar!)
.Mr. IV YNN remarked upon the total want of connexion be-
tween the subject now under discussion,. and the real question'
before the House, 'which regarded convicts pnly, and had no-
thing to do with the lonian Wands. The proceeding of the.
lion.. Gentleman (Mr. Hume) had been as unfair and illiberal
as possible ; and it was the more so, because`it was impossible
that the House should come to any decision irpon the matter in
dispute.—(Hear!)—He did not deny the existence of the case o
Martinengo, but he did deny that it reflected any discredit
' upon Sir r. Maitland:' The charge was clearly personal ; but
aupposing it were made against the Government, it had a right
to require that it should be specific, and something more than
verbal: if it were verbal, a verbal refutation would be sufli.
crent,•and would receive quite as much credit in the country as
the assertions of the other side. If the lion. Gentleman would
move for documents; they would not be refused ; but before
the defence was entered upon, some evidence to support the
charges 'ought to be adduced.
Colonel DAVIES considered the attack upon his Hon.
Friend (Mr. Hume) quite unwarranted, and accused the Un.
der Secretary for the Colonies of first irrelevantly bringing for.
ward In debate the lonian Islands. _ _

Mr. WILD! 0 T and ColonelDAVTE9 explained.
Mr. II UME, on the vote for the Vaccine Establishment, took
occasion again to refer to the lonian Islands, thanking the
Right Hon. Secretary of State (Mr. Peel) for the lesson he had
given. him, but which, unluckily, was, like others of the same
kind, completely thrown away. There was no man from whom
he (Mr.-Hume) could, or wished to learn less than from the
Right Hon. Gentleman. The conduct of Sir T. Maitland had
been brought before the House on three several occasions, and
he (Mr. Flume) felt entitled to say, that he had completely
'supported them by unquestionable documents. He would not
retract a single word that he had uttered regarding that officer.
—Within the last 3or 4 months there had been a complete
change of system in the lonian Islands, and he attributed it to
the wholesome discussions in Parliament. With regard to the
vote for the Vaccine Establishment, he had only to say that he
thought 8 physicians wholly needless for the purpose of making
a board ; though he did not wish to deprive the institution of
any assistance or skill that might be necessary.
Mr. DAWSON contended that the board was required, and
adverted to the services the establishment had. rendered to the
community. In Ceylon 90,000 persons had been vaccinated
last year, 20,000 in the Presidency of Fort-William, and 22,000
in the Presidency of Bombay.
Mr. WILMOT denied that there had been any change of
policy in the lonian Islands within the last three or four monais.
The inhabitants had been practically convinced of the advan-
tages of British protection, and the reason for banishing ob-
noxious individuals no longer existed.
Sir I. COFFIN protested against the application of oppro-
brious epi theta to Officers who were absent upon the service of
their country.
Mr. HUAIE insisted that the Documents before the House
bore him out, and more than bore him out, in every thing he
had uttered.
Sir A. HOPE got up to explain, for the satisfaction of the
Hon. Member for A berdeen, the charge of 10001. on the item of
coals and candles for the Lieut.-Governor of Edinburgh Castle.
The allowance per annum to that Officer, in lieu of .coals and
candles, wax founded upon a grant of the House of Commons,
and the reason why the sum of several years wasnow taken in a
single amount was this—he (Sir A. Hope) had for some time been
Lieutenant-governor of the Military College, during which
hperioil the post orLieutenant-governor of Edinburgh Castle had
been filled by another officer ; on his return to that station
(resigning the 'Military College), he bad claimed on the part
of his immediate predecessor, for sums which .that gentleman
had neglected toreceive.
On the grant of 16,000/. for relief to foreign officers, having
served under the English Government,
Mr. H U3IE begged to ask whether care was taken that no
officer should receive allowance who had entered into the service
of any other state ?
Mr. WILMOT said, that officers receiving half-pay were
compelled to certify that they were not in the service of any fo-
reign state, or their allowance ceased,
PE NETENT IA R Y.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT understood that it was a rule at
the Milbank prison, that no one could be an officer of that esta-
blishment who was not a member of the Church of England.—
The prisoners were compelled.to attend divine service according
to the' forms of the church of England unless under special ex-
emption by the Governor; and thoie who were so exempted were
locked up in their cells ring the hours in which service was
performing. These regulations he (Sir J. Newport) thought
savoured lamentably of intolerence.
Mr. 110LFORD thought that there was no intolerant spirit
in the arrangement at all. It was thought fit that the officers
of the prison should set an example to the prisoners, in attend-
ance upon divine service ; and that they could not do, un-
less they were members of. the English Church. As for the
convicts,. where, except locked up, would the Hon. Baronet
have them ? Except during the hours appointed for exercise or
duty, there were, in the prison in question, as in all other pri-
sons, as matter ofi course kept locked up.
MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.
A Message from the Lords announced that their Lordships
bad agreed to the National Debt Reduction Bill and the Mar.
riage Act Amendment Bill.
BEER TRADE BILL.

;The Report of the Beer Trade Bill being brought. up,
Mr. IIOLME SUMNER expressed Ins doubt that abuses
might be practised under the provisions of the Bill. A brewer
making the new description of beer might keep..a house in which
persons could drink it, and so in fact Maintain a public house
without holding a license.
The.CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that no
man keeping a pliblic-house would be allowed to brew the new
beer on his_premises., There was a clause in the act, providing
that a publican who wished to brew the newbeer must not brew
within a certain distance of the house which heused as a public-
house.
Mr. IL sumNErt, said a few words, but we could, not dis.
tinctly catch the Hon. Member's objection.
Mr. Alderman WOOD's chief objection Was, that this' mea-
sure, which was to give the poor roan . a cheap beverage, still
left him'charged with a heavy beer.duty, which the rich man
did not pay.
Mr. Sheriff THOMPSON was itr favour of the Bill. •
Alderman. C. SMITH made an observation which did not
reach the gallery.
Mr. BLNETT did not know how it was proposed to ascer-
tain the strength of the new beer, and doubted whether the
limiting:brewers to a specific quantity of malt might not en-
courage the use of drugs..
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not think
the plan free from objection;_ but its principle was so obviously
good that he strongly should recommend the tiling it. The
progress of the act might be watched, and he should be most
anxious to observe, and from time to time to amend it.
Mr. GRATTAN wished to extend the,plan to Ireland, where
a good beer, sold at a reasonable price, might, probably, in
some measure, supersede the use of spirits.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed that
there was no beer duty in Ireland.
Mr. (IRATTAN looked to the effect of having a beer sold
without the necessity of selling it under a public-house license.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought the
sale of beer without a license in Ireland worth consideration,
but thought that it would be better to effect the object (if it were
`.effectecl) bY.a separate measure.
Mr. MT. WILLIAMS-suggested the advantage of having:an
ad valorem duty upon beer 'generally. He thought, such a
measure would be infinitely morq beneficial than the Bill now
proposed. •
Mr. F. LEWIS said, that.the late Chancellor of the Exche-
quer had once contemplated the impsisition of an ad valorem duty
upon beer. He (Mr. L.) had looked with 'considerable attention
at the plan, and he thought it quite practicable, as well as likely
to be beneficial. He knew that the brewers were inclined to throw
difficulty in the way of every such prOject, 'Mt he was convinced
that the revenue might be as well collected' under a system of
ad valorem duty as under the existing arrangement. fie be-
lieved that a great part of the present beer monopoly, and it

was the heaiiest monopoly with Which the country was afflicted,
arose out of that fixed uniformity of quality and price in the
article, which put a stop almost to the possibility of competition.
The present regulations for collecting the duty on beer were as
old as the day of Charles IL, and he (Mr. Lewis) thought
there was abundant room in them for alteration and improve-

•
meat.
Mr. F. BUXTON repeated his former objections to the re-
solutions. He considered it right and proper, if the Chancellor
of the Exchequer chose it, to call into existence a new race of
brewers ; but it never could be just to require the old brewers
to pay duty at the rate of 35s..the quarter on malt, while those
of the new creation were only to pay at the rate of 255. on the
same qbantity.
After a few words from Alderman WOOD and Mr. C.
&mini, the House assented to-the other Resolutions.

MERCHANT VESSELS' APPRENTICESHIP BILL.
On the motion for reading the report of the 3lerchant Vessels'
Apprenticeship Bill,

Mr. RICARDO objected to the principle of the Bill, as in.
terfering with the freedom of commercial-regulations, and im.
posing useless and impolitic restraints on the owners of mer.
chant vessels. It was opposed to every sound principle, and
would not, he was satisfied, have the effect of adding one more
efficient seaman to the navy.
Mr. HUSKISSON agreed, that whenever any measure was
proposed interfering between employers and the individuals em-
ployed, some strong necessity or political expediency ought to
be shewn for it. It had been the uniform policy of Parliament
to maintain the maritime greatness and strength of this country
by measures which necessarily operated as restrictions upon in-
dividual convenience. On this principle the Navigation Laws
and Register Acts were founded. The Hon. Member for
Portarlington (11-r. Ricardo) was not, perhaps, aware that there
were two descriptions of apprentices. There was one class in the
nature of parish apprentices, whose service was compulsory ;
another class, who went to sea voluntarily, to acquire the science
and seamanship which would enable them to follow the profes-
sion. As the laW pow stood, apprentices were liable to be im-
pressed at the age of 18, but the present measure would protect
both these classes of apprentices up to the age of 21, The Bill
would not only afford this protection to masters of merchant
vessels, but would-be highly beneficial to the naval interests of
the country, by affording the best means of education to a race
of skilful pilots and seamen.

Mr. SYKES complained of the haste with which this mea•
sure had been cameo through the House. He trusted that no
more restrictions would be imposed on the shipping interests of

the country.
Sir G. COCKBURNE said, that the principal merchants
and ship-owners had been consulted as to the expediency of
this measure, and that 411 expressed the highest satisfaction at
it, and considered it as a boon extended to the interest iwith
which they were connected. By the protection afforded under
this Bill, apprentices in merchant vessels might now for the
first time become second and first mates, without being liable
to impressment.
Mr. NARRYATT bore testimony to the general ability of
the seamen educated in the merchants' service. The Hon.

Member for Portarlington (Mr. Ricardo) objected to the rnea.
sure as a restriction upon the freedom of trade, but it did not
seem to occur to that Honourable Member, that this and many
other restrictions might be sound and salutary. Buonaparte had
once said, that if he had a throne of adamant, he believed the
political economists would grind it to powder ; and he (Mr.
31arryatt) must say that the political economists in this country
were ready to grind the navy and shipping interests to powder,
rather then abandon their favourite theories. He concurred
with the Gallant Admiral (Sir G. Cockburne) that the present
measure had met with the unanimous approbation of the ship.
owners. Removed as an amendment, 46 That all the words in
the Bill be omitted after the word repealed."
Mr. BERNAL, although he agreed in the principle of leav-
ing to Merchants the option of taking apprentices or not, yet
recommended his Hon. Friend ( Mr. Ricardo) not to press his'
Amendment, AS it would deprive the Merchant service of the
protection afforded by this measure with regard to the liability
to impressment.
Mr. GLADSTONE supported the Bill. He concurred in
the statement, that it had received the unqualified approbation
of the Ship-owners. •
Sir ISAAC COFFIN approved of the Bill, notonly because
it afforded additional protection to the Merchant service, but be-
cause it was calculated to maintain the naval strength of the
country.
Mr. BRIGHT supported the Bill, which he contended had
been framed upon the principle of our old laws. He could at
once refer to the Act'd 2d and 3(.1 Queen Anne, which com-
pelled the masters of merchant vessels to take apprentices for
the sea service. He should heartily give his vote in favour of
the Bill.
Mr. HUME, in answer to his Hon. Friend who lied just fiat
down, could not but observe, that the existence of 'bad laws in
former times was no argument in favour of adopting diem
now. In the reign of one of the Edwards there was an Act
passed to regulate the stuffing of feather 'beds ; but what
would be thought if it were proposed to revive this Act, and
compel the Unholsterers of the present day to obey it ?
(A laugh.)—We had had excellent seamen without the aid of
so coerciye a law as the one now proposed; and he thought
this would not be productive of any benefit. He fully con-
curred in opinion with his lion. Friend the Member for Poe-
tarlington. lie even thought the effects of the .Bill would be
mischievous ; for it would, in his opinion, encourage appren-
tices, and drive the seamen to foreign employ. After some
further observations against the practice of encouraging the
increase of seamen by compulsory measures, the Honourable
Member concluded by stating that he should support the amend.
ment of his Hon. }fiend, and trusted lie would divide the
House upon it.
On a division which then took place there appeared—
For the Amendment . 6
. . Against
jiotrity.
WAREHOUSING BILL.
On the motion of Mr. WALLACE, the Report of this B
was brought up, and the House went into a Committee on the
recommittal of it.
Mr. GRATTAN observed, that that part of the Bill which
related to the Linen Trade would be ill viewed in Ireland. He
wished to know whether it was intended to make any alteration
in that part of the Bill.
Mr. WA L LACE said, that this was a most important branch
of trade, and one which he looked forward with anxiety to see
fully brought under the consideration of the House. He did
not wish to pledge himself to any opinion on the subject, fur-
ther than that he thought those who advocated the transit duty
which had been placed on Irish linen, were bound to chew the
propriety of placing such a duty, in his opinion, contrary to
the general principles on which such things were determined in
general.
Sir G. HILL thought it exceedingly unfair to the linen trade
of Ireland, that in the Bill of last year they should be ex-
empted, and this year again included, without any sort of
notice to the persons interested, in it. The transit duty might
be repealed in 1625, but no notice had been given either for
him or those concerned in it, to take such a step now.
Mr. WALLACE apprehended, that there would be ample
time to collect all the Members connected with the part of the
kingdom concerned in ibis trade, between this and the 21st of
April, when he proposed the third reading should take place.
The questioil might then undergo full discussion, and according
to the opinion of Parliament the duty would then be continued
Or diacoritinued.
Mr. SPRING RICE thought this was a subject demo:titling
the most serious attention of Parliament, inasmuch as the linen
trade had been progressively diminishing for some time It
ought to be treated with reference to the tranquillity of Ire-
land.
Mr, Secretary PEEL reminded the House that this question
was one which ought to be viewed in a different light from any
other question in the Bill, and was to be determined upon par-
ticular merits of its own. The linen trade of Ireland was con-
nected with history,. and Honourable Members would recollect
the circumstance of a Sovereign of this kingdom ordering that
every thing should be done that could be done to discourage
the woollen trade of Ireland, in order to encourage it in Eng.
land ; and, in return, every encouragement was to be given
to the linen trade of the sister- country. Thus it was, in his
opinion, that this part of the question was to be determined,
not with reference to the general principle of what was best
for the general commercial government of the empire, but
upon distinct considerations peculiar to itself ; and he begged
leave to give notice, that on the discussion of the Bill, on
the 21st April, he should endeavour to impress this view on
the House.
After a few words from Col. BARRY and Mr. BENNET,
Mr. WALLACE _introduced a clause into the Bill to pro-
vide against foreign watches being warehoused under the pro.
visions of the Bill, with the fraudulent English mark upon
them. He observed that the watchmakers had told him that
They did not fear the competition of the French watches in the
open market; but this practice was detrimental to their trade
and reputation.
Mr. WA LLACE also proposed a clause to prevent any wine
being bottled in the docks of this country in any bottles but
those of the country.. The Right Hon. Gentleman also stated,
that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had agreed to withdraw
a certain drawback duty relative to wine bottles, which would
have the effect of facilitating the: wine commerce.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER confirmed
the statement of his Right Honi Friend. He had readily ac-
ceded to thesuggestion, and he believed. the revenue would suf.
fer little or nothing by the loss of it.
The Clause was then added to the Dill. The House resumed,

-79

and having received the Report, theßill was ordered to be read I
a third time on the 21st
MONUMENT TO EARL ST. VINCENT.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUFR gave notice
that he should, on Wednesday next, move an Address to his
Majesty for the erection of a monument to the momory of the
late Earl St. Vincent.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS obtained leave to bring in a Bill to
prevent occasional Freeholders from voting for Boroughs in
England and Wales.
PARISH APPRENTICES.
Mr. CRIPPS moved for leave to brin in a Bill to enable
County Magistrates to order a grant of 201. to Parish Appren-
tices. They were allowed only 101., which was not enough in
most cases. ._The Bill also proposed to give power to Magi'.
trates to enforce the restoration of Apprentice Fees upon mis-
behaviour of the Master. At present Magistrates had onlY
power to order the recovery hut by action at law.
Sir JOHN BOUGHEY gave notice that he should Move for
leave to bring in a Bill on a subject closely connected with this,
and which the House might perhaps think ought to be em-
bodied in the Bill of his Hon. Friend.—Leave granted..

IRISH EX-OFFICIO PROSECUTIONS:
Colonel BARRY rose pursuant to notice to move for the pro-
duction of certain papers connected with the late trials for con-
spiracy in Ireland. Those papers were intimately connected
with a discussion which would come before that House on the
15th of next month, and it was necessary to strict and im-
partial justice that every document and every paper that could
throw any light upon that discussion should be fairly be-
fore the House. The first paper of which he should move
the production, was a copy of the information upon which
certain ipersons were sent to Newgate for a conspiracy to kill
and murder the Lord Lieutenant.—(Hear !)—He had no wish,
however, by so doing to anticipate discussion ; his wish, on the
contrary, ws
oe ,v e r
to h
tietail the was to
go
uanv
doisdoift .11 i
sHperestehnotunglhottn necessary,do
ihngo
should have occasion to allude to transactions which would
necessarily become the subject of future inquiry. - On the 14th
of December last, the transactions to which he alluded had
arisen. On the 15th, certain persons were brought before the
Police Magistrate, charged with having engaged in a riot,
and committed to Newgate upon a charge.of. riot ,only (if he
mistated any thing the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman
below him (Mr. Plunkett) would correct him); upon no charge
but that of having been engaged in a riot were the two Hand-
wiches committed to the gaol of Newgate, and kept there for
nine days. On the 23d of December, however, a detainer was
lodged against them, charging them with a conspiracy to kill
anti murder the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland. The charge,
therefore, was not hastilybrought forward, but after due con-
sideration, and by the advice of the Law Officers of the Crown
in Ireland. On the same day a gendeman, (hetould not say in.
deed whether he was or was not a gentleman, but) a person of
the name of Forbes, was taken up and committed on the same
charge of conspiracy. When the Right Hon. Gentleman came
forward as prosecutor, lie did not deem it advisable to proceed
on the capital charge, because he thought, and he thought
justly, that Government should lean to the side of lenity rather
than severity. Bail was then tendered and accepted to a very
considerable amount. Before the Right Hon. Gentleman had
thought proper to enter a noll proscqui, he (Col. Barry) had
deemed it fitting upon public grounds to abstain from any dis-
cussion of this question. But now that the Right lion. Gentle-
man had taken this step, he conceived that no public inconveni-
ence could arise, unless, as had been"stated by some, it might
become a subject of inconvenience to the Magistrates, who would
be subject to prosecution for having made out the committals.
But lie.(Colonel Barry) would contend, that if those committals
had been made.out upon-fair and even principles of justice, the
Magistrates had nothing to fear. lie had always heard it laid
down, that if a Magistrate were-not actuated by malice he was
not liable to damages. This question, however, became import-
ant from the manner in which it was treated. A simple not
magnified into a conspiracy gave an impulse to all the addresses
which had been presented to the Lord Lieutenant. The cir-
cumstance of persons having been arrested for so atrocious an
offence, and capitally indicted for it, excited abhorrence through-
out the country, and caused a great deal of odium to be cast
on a body of men totally undeserving of it. At first there
had been no doubt in the mind of any man that the commit-
tals had been dictated by justice ; but now that they had
been tried, there was as little doubt that they were innocent, and
that there were not sufficient grounds for their committal. He
did not defend the act of violence and outrage which had
actually been committed, on the contrary, he thought it deserv-
ing of condign punishment (Hear !) but he denied any con-
spiracy to commit such an act as the assassination of the Lord
Lieutenant of Ireland. He deprecated any wish to provoke a
premature discussion of the question which would come before
the House on the 15th of April, because be should consider
such discussion injurious to the Government of Ireland, who
would shortly be put upon their trial. It was on parliamentary
The
and on those I,Prounds alone, that he made his motion.
The gallant Colonel then moved, " That there be laid before
the House copies of informations on which commitments of
persons to the jail of Newgate (Dublin) for a conspiracy to
murder the Lord Lieutenant, were founded."
Mr. PLUNKETT could assure the House that, as far as he
was personally concerned, it was his anxious desire that every
document or paper which could in the remotest degree elucidate
the transactions alluded to should be laid before the House.
But whatever might be his private or individual feelings, he
could never submit to the discussion of any question which
would be subversive of the due course of law. He was bound
In courtesy to the Right Hon. Gentleman to believe that, in
bringing forward his motion, he was actuated by no other mo-
' tive than a love of justice, and an anxiety to maintain the prin-
ciples of the constitution. He could not attribute to the Right
Hon. Gentleman any indirect object, any wish to serve an occa.
sion or to promote the interests of any particular class of per-
sona. He was sure the Right Hon. Gentleman, in bringing for-
ward this motion, had nothing more in view than the ro ere abstract
political question. He was certain he had no wish to embar-
rass the humble individual who now claimed their indulgence,
or to impede the operations of the government of Ireland.
He did not quarrel, therefore, with the Right Hon. Gentleman's
motives; he merely complained of the effects that would flow
from the premature agitation of the question. The Right Hon.
Gentleman could not be ignorant that the Hon. Member for
Armagh had moved for the production of documents relative to
the committal of those persons who had been lately tried in
Dublin. It was the intention of that Gentleman to submit the
conduct of the Irish Government and its law officers to the
judgment of that House. 'When that Gentleman brought the
subject forward, he (Mr. Plunkett) would have it in his power
to defend himself—(Cries of hear, hear !)—Had he, the uncon-
stitutional Attorney-General, put those persons twice on their
trial for the same offence, it might have formed some excuse for
the Right Hon. Gent., who seemed willing to adopt that mode
of proceeding towards him. But he trusted the House would
excuse him if, under all the circumstances, he reserved his
defence, and that of the Irish Government, until the proper pe.
riod had arrived, when he shoud not omit to lay before the House
a true, and he trusted, a satisfactory exposiuon of his conduct.
He would, however, as the Right Lion. Gentleman had brought
the subject forward, state -the facts which led to the apprehen-
sion and committal of the persons who had been lately tried in
Dublin ; he should do so without exaggeration, and he could
assure the Ilouse, without the slightest expectation on his
part that he should be obliged to make this statement. On
the 14th December last, the Lord Lieutenant went to the thea-
tre. Some days before he did so, information was received that
Eublic declarations had been made of an intention to insult his
xcellency. This information was communicated to the Lord
Lieutenant previously to Dec. 14, and measures were resort-
ed to, to preserve the peace and protect his Excellency's person.
This night arrived, and preilous to the. Lord Lieutenant's ap-
pearance in the house a considerable tumult had taken place.
—On his entering the theatre, great approbation was expressed
by the unpacked part of the house, and loud hisses and groans
were uttered by those who were sent there. and were paid for
that purpose. And printed hand-bills were also dropped from
the gallery into the pit, headen with the words, " No Popery,"
and containing the grossest and most offensive expressions
against the Lord Lieutenant and Government of Ireland. It
was observed that signals were made between a party in the
pit, and a party placed there on the left hand side of the upper
gallery, who were armed with bludgeons, and who used expres-
sions most insulting to the Lord Lieutenant and the Roman Ca-
tholics, uttering loud cries of " Down with the Popish Govern-
ment." Matters continued in this state till after the play, when
1" God save the King," was called for. It was necessary here to
state, that in the box where the Lord Lieutenant sat, he was not
exposed to any missile that might be thrown from the upper
gallery ; but when " God save the King" was called for, his
Excellency stood up, and came forward to the front of the box,
by which he became exposed, to be struck by any thing that
might be thrown from that part of the upper gallery where the
persons armed with bludeons were stationed. Immediately on
the Lord Lieutenant's coming to the front of the box, a glass
bottle was thrown from the upper gallery, over the pit, which
struck the drop-scene of the theatre not far from his Excellency's
box. He saw some gentlemen smile—he had heard that some
thought it a good joke that a bottle had been thrown at the head
of the King's representative in Ireland. Three persons had
sworn to the fact that they saw the bottle thrown, and aimed
at the Lord Lieutenant. Ile thought he heard laughter, and he
had no objection to let persons who could sneer on such a sub-
ject enjoy " their peals of devilish laughter."—(Hear, hear !)
But the House would jutle; e whether it was a jcu d'esprit to fling
a bottle at the head of the King's Representative, because he
had been guilty of-introducing the anomaly into Ireland: of go-
verning the people by equal laws.—(Hear, hear l)—After the
bottle had been flung, tined the party in the upper gallery, who
had been active in the riot, and who held a watchman's rattle in
his hand, with which he-made a great noise during the night,
broke it In two pieces, and threw the larger piece in the dim.

tion of the Lord Lieutenant. It was a heavy piece of wood, ,it 'lit
the cushion of the box next to the Lord Lieutenant's, which it
cut, and rebounded on the stage. All these facts were proved i
on the trial. Many of the rioters sounded whistles, and #
many peaceable persons who expressed their dissatisfaction were A
beaten with bludgeons by the rioters. It was proved an the .
trial that Handwitchithrew, the bottle, that Graham threwthe .f.
rattle, and Forbes was particularly active in encouraging the '-,
rioters. He stood at the corner of the lattice on the left band i
side of the upper gallery.s and was seen to communicate by
signals with the rioters after the bottle was thrown. The
person who threw the bottle was apprehended the night the riot
took place, and nothing more than he- ad now stated appeared
on that night. When lie (Mr. P.) was first consultett, his
impression was that the offence was a misdemeanour. Ite.t
the facts were investigated for several days, during whice
the Solicitor-General and himself paid the subject the
greatest attention. During that inquiry it appeared that
street, where he was met by others of the on the
Forbes, who had been apprehended and released
night of the riot, went after his release to a tavern in asked
street,
of himself and of throwing the bottle, and spoke of himself
as having a connection with the riot that involved his life:,
he said he knew he was liable to go to Botany Bay, tai
he bad no objection, as he would establish an orange lee get
there ; he had but one life to lose, and he was willing to lose 1
re-
in the cause in which they had embarked ; he expro,ed his
get that they had missed the Lord Lieutenant, and his helle
that they would be more successful another time. All this
was stated on the oaths of two respectable witnesdes whose cil,.;
meters he never heard impeached. lOW he (•
new
and i.II.
Solicitor- General heard this testimony, it gave a new character
to the offence that had' been committed. It plainlY aPPearsat
that it was a conspiracy not to insult the Lord Lieutenant, ,
_. ,
to attack his person ; and under that impression he advised he
r
the parties should be committed on the capital charge But
House would observe that that created no obligation to II:
Pasty. Ile talkeg.
cute capitally. The Hon. Gentleman seemed to diiak that when
Government committed on a capital charge, they woesosect
to prosecute on it: but he was mistaken ; they wereitsisrnheol
s liberty to prosecute for a minor offence. Ile ()Ir.
,u.
capital!
still thought there was evidence to go to a jell on " ' love
charge; but he does not now think there was evidence r_ Pi
n oa
that it was the object of the conspirators tomoister tou Ili,
Lieutenant ; and he would, if on the jury, say the bain,ef °etlif-
uath.--(Hear!)--But he was convinced EVeonspinicy t i stets,
ferent nature was entered into, not to murder the leorstia;',o,,
tenant, but to compel him to change the measures °` ;pie
vernment---(Hear !)—toput down the plan of governing,
_,,,03,
the conspirators considered a dangerous anomaly in the ra, de.
people by the impartial administration of the same Isws 70'1,,,
ment of Ireland.- (Hear, hear !)—After his Alkiestithe eie
dared his gracious intention of healing the wounds ott
thogis
fortunate country, which he had honoureeth 3 IiSI Wili
most gratefully received, and during whilie had gre. oss
expressed his desire that no party toasts should be gir.et!to sie.
the Lord Lieutenant, who was acting in the spirit of S,
_ing
jesty's instructions, had made known his intention ess_T,'o,,
to the theatre, the party who were opposed to the my
sures of his government concerted their means of attach I ow,
tions were raised in the Orange Lodges tu
considered it a good opportunity 'of rendering the "3"islsli,li
tenant's government unpopular; of impres,ing thet frew,
goyernment with the opinion that he was unpopular in
.. 1 wrip,
-and force him to quit the country. For this pusetie'dote.
It was part of the plan that a number of the Orangerste biee"
go to the pit and seize on the part of it near the to thew
tenant's box, and communicate with the others who 14'.!4thestre
selves in the upper gallery. Three perSOnS Went to ruitted 60
in the morning anti bought as many pit tickets•aii AI also irCt
to the upper gallery. Forbes was one of those ;
the party to
the other onpra in the evening, and sent crilotS:,,ro set
the ergupp gallery, three by three, armed with b,
,a,,704 elf-
infuriated by whiskey. It was not possible thSt ellicg the
bans could expect to effect their purpose of rolli!), ettosla,'
Lord ;Lieutenant to quit the theatre without etails solo
person. Could they expect that the Citizens of Dublint Oil
submit to see the King's Representative so tresitseleit, le'
the object, he conceived, was against the 006' sis V
the injury that might arise to the Lord Lieutenan ssl Os
no 'lie
was but consequential ; and therefore he had ligi
not ''''A be
of indictment that were not capital. But hem , shoilisc, ,
ed any duty when he advised that the consPi°_o not a'
,i;
would oi :1 a id
then Lieutenant,
committed on the capital charge, as his
made up on the evidence whether the ttact had rf Ong '
}lack
s slow
a 1{ • nbtral, ° ~,1 the
dressing of Kinks
ed against the Lord Lieuten ' life. e. '' '°-
ant e , ~.4 acie t,„,1
beent;
be
cdromeseidt:edhe
bhyolpla:dipllcoiravetindsh'ist
wrnsotat?tbltlu:,braetiginhevtesiataip!eiro;h:easttabettios,lc7o._ tt . '': i
t, s , tuoi C4ll he op -,
prerogative, e
mightg ati Irken,
oywe tthh
that
thiat d
was somei
lon: ite Hs,
all; sn: g ::::, to:
what he was ready to declare on his agitAz`t,", the Pr's,,ii;
prosecute te the conspirators in that se as behnt'oen's
should
but though he could not blame the Hon. `.."-,0 tbsthellon.
severely accused by the Hon. gent` toiniii°- Ile
on
a capital charge without afterwards prosecu- ociation t
..
t know that ten en, an a jlOOl3
elusively Catholic or twelve ribbon M , yet the se the
eacailedvihow;:::ern3g,.,..:o . ,
, and not afterwards hand or st invs, The
able Gentleman did i • 'n- 1 11' a
not wrin els s, se la hos
gas, nor call an the House toynterfere m thee. be t, in.
ouse might now ask him (Mr. Plunkett) nYinesai- ins,,
resist the motion, his answer was, because it wirns proilitiritli
formations were given in reliance on 'ecrecY'' 301itic. ' it
them before the public would be unjust and !nye
~litted,_
respect to Magistrates too by whom persons wereotiolaenere.
would be unfair, as they might be prosecuted
or!si toss h 4
disclosed; and no man would venture to come for; befooliPot
informations if he knew they would be made Iran Oria.,
was called on as a witness. The lion. Oen titittional l',oe
aware that in his zeal he had endangered c°llen he hsci n'er.
ciples, but his first attempt must be excused, w asothee
practice he would be ' • He would have i the ' .
more adroit. . bject 0 tiro.
portunity of defending his conduct on the sit joy to he,
officio informations which he had thought-it hi 11... 0., wheeti.er
zed on, and he would be in the judgment of theoliya,_4ll PI
hee ,had_., abused die power vested in him by Ns ulcer !) 30,
Dr
acted from malignity or party feeling • --, 1 to the le se
Dr. LUSHINGTON declared he had listents
sietioo, ia ,
ed Gentleman withbut without en".": rites anuot
great respect,. to jiagist • in
WAS not aware that information was given , ofidence, ,i,ch
a seal of secresy, and he would have little cirstead i)„' :pip
testimony that required to be so protected. ioteei o,:yed.
conduct being constitutional, it would lead t°„aejj be °tea"'
and,
by which the rights of the people wssis lion, ,el3*
mtl, despight of the high authority of the PI. Tidal, Let et it
tuallr he must deny it was the law of FaiOnsttsoens,,stitu'
w e protects when the Habil?: Corpus Act
el
dtbe es toil
.as a departure from the established princiPiesfua opp°rl if the
oupp. He should vote for the motion to have a
vent, „ot sot
fudging of the conduct of the Irish Gtwerill the stetTsht
Information was refused he was bound to take 00 tho st-
of the Ilon. Gentleman Imade he the.motion c 001?
wlo t
the Learned Gentleman could hardly ask ,..pg it as sin Ilse-
England to decide on his etatement, which, tastrhe Ores be
did not prove a case for a capital comniitinent- scold ilnitt 0
men intended to murder the Lord Lieutenant, i I ther,l,o,
content with a bottle and a piece of a tattle; 00,
s° 100 \ isioos
conspiracyno t Lieutenant,
Gentleman s
fo
s insult
he
21 thing as a pistol. It appeared by the l",t, conc' dot
man's statement that he had - tl ee differe , nest 0
come to tau pot, 4se ,
on the evidence • firs e 0 ,
it w ' ; -rst, that it was a niisdem ~ ,s ,t sen
as. a conspiracy to murder the Lord LieuteninaTv'ent,
111,Itien,
that it was a conspiracy to change his gays of iutWoo to
the Learned Gentleman, with all the me asst the, ilotiosy
changed his opinions, it was too Much t.,," inept Wit !i.,
come to a conclusion on theconduct Of goYe'Y- '.
Awes
information. under 'sot ""':
Mr. Secretary PEEL said, the question i whC
_dip.?
was confined to narrow limits—Theesti°° was coin.' ass
quest: f police 0
fain in •
formation on which the Magistrates° iscel. ss tlie.
persons on a charge of mustier should be lotto d w.,, 0.
quite clear that the question had be ~,60,0000, ,
motion respecting the filing of ex oPi°,,n giveo °teal;
which the Honourable Member for Arniegli st's, of ti;socew
The House was already in possession of the et be pd ortiet
and it was not necessary the information ahn.tricy an Ito ill
Ile believed the parties committed for coOsPl. ' ands °l`soo9.
might bring an action against. the Magistates,,o ac, old
House of Commons be the means of prornotingwThi to ;;eas'
The production of the documents s not neco• (4 be 'hold
the house was n it lOU. Gish hit
it
to decide any specific question. ,it seten, 04 to.,
venient to parties to be put on their trials if ow_ 0t• Irv" hagiell
be disclosed. It was not necessary for the peal" n, 'f
this question shouldundergo further invesugat ° „ for,
4 in ...4.,
Hon '
. Secretary opposed the motion. _se lei sow ,
Mr. ABERCROMBY admitted that tile 'Tit this I'ol Di
row compass. The Right Hon. Gentleman 53
bed loin taw
tion was not connected wi the question to
root
vsii .
the Member for Armagh. lie differed in 1113.,,,.t eairigiSi;crea 11
Right Hon. Gentleman. The whole of the P,7be proe oe pa
the individuals must bear on the questions,
~,p rat_ toe
the Member for Armagh. A case had certain lied 174 on toe
se!
for the production of papers, yet they v/fre issortnePe vie.°
short. The House had granted part of the
the 1-10'li pticoll
by refusing information in this instauf,Scs to parlaystlt' letie
itself in a difficult situation. lo ° it was lonoS.
all the information should be allowed- Right I sic
lira'e
but a constitutional cpiestion. His rorproducuctioo 1 ?
Friend had said, it would be inconvenien
.6 ,Tosee ~,,oftri_q,
deuce. He might ask whether, in ease of "I,,stsislit ';',.itlitls-„'„,
seeding, the evidence would not have been ya it besorcieti,SS
If it would have been called for, W,°° This 11110
},tee l
from the Grand Inquest of the countryls.„, to tax 000
appeared essential, because it was neel7-I,ise. alli
he eso rsje
ceeding from beginning to the end. :Thee
The e
presecute the inquiry fairly and honestly. ,stion,
dth o'v
•
Sir JOHN NEWPORT oppose