The Sun.
London, England, 1840-06-23 00:00:00

EVENING EDITION'.

he present measure. The emancipation of the shaves in
he West Indies.took place -in 1836, and the operation of
the great change was regarded with great interest, and
much anxiety existed-as -to -whether any, and what mea-
sures would tie adopted by the Government. Nothing, in
his mind, could be more satisfactory that the con-
duct of their emancipation.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.)
In many of our colonies, for instance in British Guiana,
the negroes had become wealthy and purchased estates.
On the other hand, though net insubordinate they had shown
a disinclination to labour, and the result had been a great
. diminution in the production of sugar from the colonies.
(Here the noise at the time was so great that the Noble
Lord observed he was sorry the House did not attend more
to the subject—important as it was.—Hear, hear, from
Sir R. Peel, Mr. Goulburn, &e.) An object of great
moment was the suppression of the foreign slave-trade, by
which hundreds of thousands were yearly sacrificed.—
(Hear, hear.) It because a question what means the Go-
vernment should take to suppress it.—Here the noise was
so great that
Mr. BRISCOE rose to order, and appealed to the
Speaker to prevent Member from creating such an uproar
by arranging pairs at the bar.—( Hear, bear.)
The Noshs Loan proceeded. It Lad been suggested
that steamers should be sent to the coast cf Africa, to pro-
. duce an influence on the native tribes, to prevent the
traftic in their fellow couiftryrnen.—( Hear, hear.) The
House would remember the great difficulty they had had
to induce even the most enlightened nations of Europe to
concur in the abolition of the soave-trade; and, therefore,
they would conjecture how gradually they would succeed in
impressing on the Africans the barbarity of these transactions.
But on the other matter, to which the colonists promised
their attention. They said with much justice that now slavery
was abolished, every labourer was at liberty to make his
own contract, and the price of labour was regulated by
competition, and therefore they should be at liberty to in-
duce labourers from other countries to come to the colo-
nies, in order that they might see whether free labour
could compete with slave labour, at least in the market
of Great Britain. In the colony of Trinidad certain
sums had been devoted to promote emigration. The same
was proposed in Guiana, and with respect to Jamaica, an
Act had been lately sent over for the Royal assent, and
consented to by the Government, enacting that the sum
of 50,000/. should be given for four bears for the same
purpose. There were some circumstances in this Act
which appeared to him of doubtful policy. It was pro-
posed either that the labourer should consent to pay the
amount of his passage money, P: that he should enter into
an indenture for a term of three years. Now he (Lord J.
Russell) thought the labourer whu went there was stititled
to A free passage, or in any case that three years was too
long A period. At the same time considering bow desir-
able it was to facilitate the introduction of free labourers
to Jamaica, be was not disposed to advise the Queen to
disallow that Act, though be should th.nk it his duty
to state his objections to the Governor. The Governor
9f Sierra Leone, informed him that great excitement pre-
vailed there, in consequence of the high wages paid in is•
mnica and Trinidad, and that there was a considerable dis-
position there to emigrate. Then came the question pro.
posed in a provision of a Bill before the House which,
as it th,w stood, related only to the Mauritius. The
House vven:ld recollect that, two or three years ago, there
was a considerable discussion, in consequence of the
introduction of Indian labourers into British Guiana.
Circumstances induced the Governor at that time to
prevent this, but at the same time they stated it should be
matter of consideration, and, accordingly, when various
representations were made to him on the subject from the
West Lidian colonies, lie considered what would be
pauper to do on this subject. He found that there had
been considerable mortality on one estate in British
Guiana; he considered, likewise, the ignorance that bad
prevailed, and he thought it safer, if anything was to be
done, it should be done in the island of the Mauritius.
The intercourse between India and the Mauritius and the
number of Indians already there made it natural to select
that island. It would be a totally different case if the
Coolies were to go to the West Indian colonies. There
they must go with wives and families, and establish a new
race in those colonies, with new habits and new customs,
and this might produce evil. He, therefore, at present
would not assume the responsibility of saying that the
migration; to the West Indies should take place. Whe-
ther hereafter it might be allowed ho could not say.
The clauses were chiefly introduced to take the sense of
the House generally upon the subject- To the extent they
went, be thought the experiment should be tried no fur-
ther. Some persons had said he should propose distinctly
and specifically his regulations to the House. That
course, however, he did not think it. proper to adopt. He
simply moved the third reading-of the Bill.
Lord HO WICK wished to know if his Noble Friend
would state what Act had been adopted by the Jamalea
Legislature.—( Hear, hear.) Some of theta appeared so
objectionable, that as his Noble Friend had intimated his
intention not to disallow those acts, he (Lord Howick)
should feel it his duty to bring the subject before the
House.--(Hear, hear)—and he trusted the Acts would
not be alleged till the sense of the House had been taken
upon them.—( Hear, hear.)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL had no objection to lay the
Acts upon the table of the House.
Sir ROBERT PEEL hoped the Noble Lord would
consider well before he established a precedent that would
be extremely inconvenient. The Noble Lord ( Howick)
had asked for the production of an Act to which the assent
of the Crown had not been given, and the Noble Lord the
secretary for the Colonies had stated his willingness to
give the production. Now he would venture to say that if
such a precedent were established, it would be adopted with
respect to every other Act. He hoped the Noble Lord
would make up his mind as to the advice he should give to
the Crown before he produced the Act.
Sir G, GREY said that the Act referred to did not
'require the sanction of the Crown, inasmuch as is had re-
ceived the sanction of the Governor.
The' Bill was then read a third time.
Dr, L US H INGTO N then moved that the clauses which
fated to the transportation of persons trout India to the
Mauritius be omitted. He was afraid they were about
to make experiments with regard to the Mauritius which
be court: not but think would turn out most unfavourably.
He thought they ought to refrain from exporting the Hill
Coolies till they were convinced it was for their advantage.
There was all but an inseparable difficulty in obtaining
females to emigrate to the Mauritius. He thought the
exportation of Hill Coolies would be attended will a re-
petition of the horrors that had already attended the ex-
portation cf slaves. He thought, also, that the Mauritius
was the worst possible place for this experiment, for the
worst of horrors had been perpetrated there. In that
country they did not allow the 11111 Coolies to
leave their homes wain:lst tickets of leave. If
that was not slavery, he did riot know in what it con-
sisted. Lord Glenelg had reprobated such conduct,
and how, therefore, he would ask, was confidence to be
placed in the Governor or any officer there? It had been
said that all had been done there to recover the Hill
Coolies. They had adopted a system of registration, and
the registry under that contained tile names of 2,500 slaves,
who bad been made free. Would they, therefore, again
-establish slavery in the island ?—( Hear, hoar.) Looking
through the whole of the island, he would ask if there ex-
isted the means of communication.—(Hear, hear.) It
was clearly proved, from all the inquiries that had taken
place, that there was not a sufficient supply of water for
the population, and therefore he repeated that the experi-
anent about to be made by the Bill was one of a most dan-
gerous nature, and therefore he should give it his opposi-
lien. The Right Hon. Gentleman concluded by moving
Itise omission of all the clauses relating to the transportation
'of the Hill Coolies from India to the Mauritius.
After a few words from Sir A. GRANT,
Mr. ELLIOT rose for the purpose of protecting the
interests of the people as much as possible, with whom he
bad spent a great portion of his life. No man could land
en the island of the Mauritius without being struck with
the different races that inhabited that island. India was
subject to continual famine, and yet his Right hlon,
Friend would prevent any of its natives front emigrating
to the Mauritius, where they would he prevented from
starving. Such was really the fact. He was no interes-
ted East India Proprietor, but all lie wished was
that the ;people's interests should be attended to.
Kidnapping for emigration could not, to a certain extent,
be prevented even in London. flow then could it be
prevented in India ?—( Energetic cries of " Hear, hear,"
from Lord Howick.) Every man ought to be left to act
for himself. The Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman
bad said that this country had paid 20,000,000/. to abolish
slavery. Now his (Mr. Elliot's) way of putting it was,
that the country bad paid 20,000,000/. to have free labour
in our colonies.—( Hear, hear.) In no quarter of the
globe did a Government possess greater facilities for re-
gulating deportation than in Bengal ; for no ship could
leave the river without pilots comple'ely under the con-
trol of the Government. The effect of the evidence
was that in the Mauritius, as in all other
places, there were some good masters and some
bad ones—income cases the Coolies were sa htied, and in
others dissatisfied, and sometimes they had renewed their
contracts for years. They could not be prevented from
going to the Mauritius without an infringment of their
natural liberties. They had as much right to go there as
other gentlemen had to go to Richmond. The lion.
Gentleman concluded by saying he was surprised at the
Court of Directors petitioning against the clauses.
Mr. HOGG said the petition came from the whole of
the East India Company, who felt very strongly upon the
subject, not that they wished to prevent emigration
entirely, but that they wished proper guards and effectual
)protection to be established, and of this the Noble Lord
had not satisfied them; but further, where was the report
of the Committee which Lord Auckland had established
on the subject, and which would be received on the 4th of
next month ? Why should not the Noble Lord wait until
the report had been received ? If not, be might depend
upon it this Bill would not pass.
Mr. G. BERKELEY said if these clauses were not
-agreed to the planters would have no protection
of emigre-
Mr. IRVING said without a good system
thwe the eolonies would be ruined, and he should support
the Bill.
Lord HOWICK said, his Hon. Friend (Mr. Elliot)
had not. by his statements removed the doubtsd ifwhkiicd-
-1-1
rested upon his mind. His Hon. Friendcould had sal ,be
napping prevailed in the Thames, how it pre
vented in the Ganges. That was the very argument
which he (Lord Howick) would offal- against t
sure, of which the only thing clear was, that it
went
‘to re-
move the restriction which had been propetly iak,pose
on the emigration of these Coolies,—for the sa el, he
supposed, of some private interests (Hear, IT,
and No, no,)—acid without any adequate securityi
against the horrors that had been formerly discoveres
He believed it was well known that many of these unfor-
tunate slaves, feeling their distressed situation, lied sub
horrible nature cf the treatment to is hich they were sub-
he
jected, threw themselves into the sea on their voyage ft am
India to the Mauritius. If the Government only took
upon itself the duty of ascertaining the capabilities of the
vessels employed in the conveyance of these persons from
Judie, the clauses would be altogether unnecessary. It
was, in his opinion. most h judicious to call upon Parlia-
• went, which was little or at all acquainted with the sub-
. .ject, to legislate upon the matter. It appeared to him
,also most injudicious and unfair to propose any plan by

which the labourer was called upon to enter iota a con-
tract to- work for a certain- peried-- for a loveer.-rate of
wages than was usually paid. The plan had been
tried some years ago with the Australian Colonies,
and it had totally failed. The labourer, who had
contrated, as the price of his passage, to labour
for a certain period at a low rate of wages had no sti-
mulus to labour, and disagreements and quarrels ending
in the cancelling of the agreements invariably resulted.
The same plan of indentured labour bad been taken upon
a great scale very lately in the West Indian Colonies,
and no sooner had regulations been adopted by the British
Government to protect the apprentiece from undue con-
crcion than the masters said it was AO longer worth their
while to continue the syste.n, and it was put an end to.
He feared it would be found that the people of the )lau-
ritiva were too much tainted with the system of slavery to
give adequate protection to Indian labourers. The papers
which had been laid on the table showed that corporal
punishment was resorted to in very many instances, and
the sergeants, as they were termed, fulfilled in many respects
the duties which, under the system of slavery, was confined
to the slave drivers. He believed the renewal of contracts
and agreements in the Mauritius bad been in many instances,
extorted from the labourers under the fear of punishment
or coercion. On these grounds be placed very little reli-
ance upon the system of contracts, and he should there-
fore give his opposition to the clauses of his Noble Friend.
Mr. L A BOUC HER E bore testimony to the efforts
which the Noble Lord ( Howick) had made while in office
for the protection of the slave, and if he was not certain
that his Noble Friend had misunderstood the plan of the
Noble Lord the Secretary for the colonies, he would be
inclined to agree with much that had fallen from him.
The emigration of these labourers it should be recollected
was to be conducted both in India and at the Mauritius
by Government agents, who would take care that no un-
fair advantage would be taken of the emigi ant. He
maintained that the details of the plan would be much
more properly left to the local authorities and the Govern-
ment than to introduce them in a Bill like the present.
He would remind the House that these clauses had been
introduced at the suggestion of the Hon. Gentleman
the Member for Pembroke, and the arguments which
had then been urged in their favour, appeared to
him and to his Noble Friend to be quite conclusive. He
was the more anxious not to give a silent vote upon the
question, because in a few days th' Hon. Member for
Wigan intenedd to bring ferward a motion for the intro-
duc.ion. of slave-grown sugar, and the House would recol-
lect the state in which that trade was at present. He
could assure it that the table of the Board of Trade
was loaded with representations and remonstrances from
parties engaged in that trade, and it would be his du•y—a
painful duty he admitted—to oppose the motion, because if
that motion were carried it would be a violation of the so-
lemn engagements which' that country had entered into.—
( Hear.) He trusted the House would throw no obstacles
in the way of the passing of the present measure, which he
believed would be attended with the most beneficial re-
sults.--( Hear, hear.)
Sir JAMES GRAHAM was inclined, from the best
consideration he could give the subject, to support the pro.
position of the Hon. Member for Beverley, an, he
would implore her Majesty's Government to sus-
pend the passing of the measure for a short period,
He had heard from the Noble Lord no detailed plan by
which the supply of labour was to be regulated in India,
and the documents laid on the table showed that the ar-
rangement was one to which the labourers were by no
means inclined to assent. _

Mr. O'CONNELL trusted the consideration of the
project would be deferred for the present. There was ono
thing which must be highly consolatory to the feelings of
the planters, and that was, that all parties, all sides of the
House agreed upon the imperative necessity of increasing,
if possible, the free labour in the colonies to insure the
well working out of the system. There was, indeed, no
point of view in which the value of introducing free
labour vas not perfectly manifest—but it" must be free la-
bour.—( Hear, hear.) They must not leave it to the co-
lonies of Guiana, Jamaica, or the Mauritius to make it
slave labour again.—( Hear, hear.) The Government
should take care that when these emigrants arrived in the
colonies they were perfectly free agents —( Hear, hear.)
Guiana, so far as he knew anything of it, afforded every
facility to treat the emigrant labourers well, and to leave
them free; at least, so far as he could judge, that was the
case.—( Hear, hear.) He believed, however, that was
directly the reverse in Jamaica, and to a frightful extent.
In Jamaica every precaution was taken to prevent the
labourer becoming free, and he found there had been a
fatal facility on the part of Sir C. Metcalfe to fall into the
views of the planters. In the Bill lately sent over by the
Jamaica Legislature, there was a clause for three years'
apprenticeship ; why did not the Government disallow that
at once? He understood that all that had been done by
the Government was to send the Bill back for re-conside-
ration. The Hon. and Learned Member then referred to
the Police and Vagrant Acts, and the other Acts
which had been lately passed by the Legislature
of Jamaica, all of which he strongly censured.
If Gentlemen were aware hew much of the agrarian
disturbances in Ireland were occasioned by the facility of
conviction, they would pause before they put a similar
power into the hands of the Magistrates of Jamaica. He
repeated there could be no confidence placed in Sir
Charles Metcalfe, from the facility with which he had car-
ried these laws. As far as Mauritius was concerned, in
relation to emigration, it was impossible they could confide
in the planters. The lion. Gentleman said, the local
authorities were those alone in whom they could confide ;
but it was of these he (Mr. O'Connell) complained. Thev
should have the Guiana laws and the Jamaica laws rela-
tive to this subject before them ; and he would respectfully
suggest that they should wait until they were laid upon the
table. They should use every exertion to secure labourers
to the colonies, but they should at the same time use every
precaution that these were free labourers.—( Hear. hear )
Mr. V. SMITH said, the main deft of the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman's argument was to cast blame on
the authorities of Jamaica ; in answer to which, be
(Mr. V. Smith) should say nothing, but would satisfy him-
self by asserting that every man was entitled to find the
best market for his labour. Suppose the Report of the
Committee mentioned by the Hon. Gentleman should be
advc rse, the emigration scheme would drop, but he thought
its failure would seriously affect the prosperity of the Colo-
nies. He would urge the House to proceed with this mea-
sure on the great principle he had mentioned. He did en-
treat the House to consider the position of the colonies and
of the negroes themselves. Were they prepared to tell
them they must submit to a greater loss in duties; and a
still greater in the article itself. The diffhrence between
the West Indies and the 'Mauritius was that the one was a
three weeks, and the other a five months voyage. As re-
gards the interest of the Government it must be plain
they had none in the measure, which; if they rejected, they
would be telling the people of India they should not cross
the sea for less wages than they were enjoying.
Sir A. GRANT complained loudly of the Hon. and
Learned Member's (Mr. O'Connell) attack on Sir J. Met-
calfe, whom he believed had done greater good for Jamaica
than any other person in so short a space of time. He had
conducted himself with the greatest impartiality, and, as
he maintained, had entitled himself to the confidence of
the country. He should vote against the amendment of
the lion. Member for the Tower Hamlets, as he should
afterwards vote for adding the words " British Guiana,
and the other colonies of Great Britain," after the word
" Mauritius."—( Hear, hear.)
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House
divided. when the numbers were :
For the C1au5e......., lO9
For the Amendment l5B
Majority for the Amendment —49
IRISH REGISTRATION BILL.
Lord STANLEY then rose and asked the Noble Lord
(J. Russell) at what time he proposed to enter into the
discussion of the subject of the Registration of Ireland.
He had only one object—that the subject should be fairly
discussed in Committee, and as he had no desire to use
any factious opposition in the way of Government business,
he was willing to take the course that would be most con•
venient to the Noble Lord, provided he could be ensured a
reasonable time before the end of the session. He was, how-
ever, anxious a measure so important should have precedence
some day. and he would ask the Noble Lord if it would be
inconvenient to him to postpone the Clergy Reserves Bill to
Friday, and allow him to take Thursday, or if this was im-
possible, Friday for the discussion of his Bill.
Lord JOHN RUSSET L said there two measures
which he wished to progress, namely, the Clergy Reserves
Bill, which was fixed for Thursday, and another measure
of the Chancellor of the Exchequer's, which he wished to
bring on the same day—the Sugar Duties. There would
be no objection to postpone the Committee of Supply
from Friday to Friday week, and to give the Noble
Lord's Bill precedence on Friday; at the same time his
Noble Friend must feel that, if the question of the Sugar
Duties was not settled on Thursday, that measure could
not be well postponed. •
Some conversation ensued, but it was ultimstely
arranged that the Noble Lord's ( Stanley's) Bill should b.,
brought forward on Friday.
ADMIRALTY COURT JUDGE'S SALARY
BILL.

On the Order of the Day Fur ►he third reading of this i
Bill having been read,
Lord HOTH A M rose to propose an amendment to the
effect—" That no Admiralty Judge should, atter the pre-
sent Session of Parliament, sit as a Member of the House '
of Commons." The Noble Lord said that while he ren
dered justice to the merits of the present Judge of the Ad-
miralty, he felt that it did not suit his position to be the
representative of a large constituency, a position which
brought him in connection with popular feelings and party
politics.
Mr. FIUME seconded the amendment. He wished to
see every one holding a judicial situation excluded from
the HouQe of Commons.
Mr W. WILLIAMS also supported the amendment.
He did not know any Judge who should more properly be
excluded from sitting in that House than the Judge of the
Admiralty, as no one held a situation of greater delicacy
and importance.
Mr. WARD would vote for the proposition if it were a
general one, and were extended to all Members holding a
judicial office. He could not, however, give his support
to the amendment as it then stood.
Mr. SHAW would vote against the amendment.--
( Hear, hear.) He owned that the proposition would ex-
tend as fairly to his own case as to that of the Judge of the
Admiralty.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he had already stated his oh..
jections to the proposition brought forward by the Noble
Lord, and he did not think the Noble Lord had since
produced any new argument in its support. The proposi-
tion of the Noble Lord would apply to Judges elected by a
corporation, as well as to Judges elected by the Govern-
ment. He also thought that the House should not he de-
prived of the learning and talents of the present Judge of
the Admiralty. As, however, he believed that the sense
of the House was against him, he would not divide on
the question —( Hear, hear.)
Mr. WALL ACE spoke in favour of the amendment.
• Sir E. SUGDEN said, that if the House had come to
: a division on the subject, he should, though with some
hesitation, have voted against the proposition of :the Noble
j Lord. Ile Felt the objections to a Judge of the Admiralty
having a seat in that House, but he believed that those

objections ware counterbalanced by the advantage derived
from the aid of his learning.
Dr. NIC HOU; supported the amendment. He
said that his relative (Sir J. Nicioll) had received his ap-
pointment on the understanding that Judges of the Ad-
miralty should be excluded for the futare from a scat in
that House.

Mr. PR YM E objected to the amendment.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw. No division
took place, the amendment having been agreed to without
one. The 811 then passed.
FLOUR IMPORTATION (IRELAND) BILL.
Mr. LABOU C H ERE moved the third reading of the
Bill.
Sir R. BATESON opposed the motion, and moved,
as an amendment. that the Bill be read a third time that
day six months.
-Colonel CONOLLY seconded the amendment. Ile
was persuaded if the Bill passed it would be greatly.inju-
rious to the agricultural interests of Ireland.

O'F Mr. MORE ERRA LL supported the third read-
ing of the Bill. He believed that all that had been said
by those who had proposed and seconded the amendment
had put the question upon a false footing.
Sir D. ROCHE WAS at first opposed to the Bill, but
since the time it was introduced, seeing the smuggling that
had taken place, he felt that he could not, in justice to the
fair trader, oppose it longer. He should therefore give his
assent to the third reading.

Mr. Sergeant JACKSON supported the amendment.
Mr. L ABOUC HER E had already stated that the
operation of the Bill would be of a very limited nature, but
he was induced to look at the question in a much more
important light from the statements that had just been
made by the Hon. Baronet behind him, that smuggling to
a great extent was carried on from Liverpool to Ireland.
That arose from the anomaly in the law by which foreign
flour was imported under different provisions into Ireland
and England. He trusted under these circumstances, and
seeing that the arguments used that it would injuriously
affect the interests of Ireland rested on the most vague and
unstable grounds, he trusted the House would allow the
Bill to be read a third time. . .

Mr. E. TENNENT had had communications with
almost every miller in Ireland, and without exception they
were all opposed to the Bill.
Mr. BE AMISH was satisfied that the Bill would inflict
no injury whatever on the milling interest of Ireland—if
he thought so, he would be the last to support such a mea-
sure, which he did most cordially.
Mr. 0. GORE said the Right Hon. Gentleman (the
President of the Board of Trade), had, in the most hand-
some manner, postponed the Bill on a former occasion, to
ascertain the opinion of the Grand Juries of Ireland on the
subject. That had been very distinctly pronounced in the
number of petitions that had been presented against the
measure; he thought this was an attempt to introduce the
small end of the wedge, in order to lead hereafter to the
repeal of the Corn-laws, and, as such, ho trusted the
House would oppose it.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House
divided, when there appeared—
For the third reading
Against it ~. .0 90
Majority I
The announcement was received with foul cheers from
the Opposition benches.
ARMS (IRELAND) BILL.
Lord MORPETH moved the second reading of the
Arms (Ireland) Bill.
After a few words from Mr. LITTON, the Bill was
read a second time.

The Timber Duties Bill was read a third time and passed.
The Sugar Duties Bill was read a secoad time, and or-
dered to be committed on Thursday next.
The Police Rates Assessment Bill was read a third time
and passed.