The Sun.
London, England, 1841-08-26 00:00:00

law established among civilized nations in, Europe
The sole medium of communication with other nations
was through the Federal Government by means of
the President and the people of the • United States
had no more notion of New York as an independent
state than the people of England had of the county of
Rutland being so. Such, he conceived, ought to have
been the answer made to Mr. Forsyth when he
claimed for New York authority ever a British
subject. However, he (Mr. floebuck) wanted now to
ascertain those facts. He had written them down, and
he would put them into the Noble Lerd's hands
in a written, form, that he might not mis-
take the nature of the questions. First, he wished
to know whether her Majesty's Government by any
formal declaration had assumed' all the responsibility of
the attack on the Caroline, and then he wanted to know
whether the Government of the United States hail ad-
mitted that responsibility, and demanded repdration for
the outrage and injury thus done to the United States,
becauss it should be always recollected that if they
demanded reparation for the injury done to the
United States by. that attack ; it did not lie with
them to . turn round and say, that New York
was the only pOwer that had jurisdiction in
that matter. Next, he wished to ask whether her. Ma-
jesty's Government had stated to the Government of the
United States in the case of M'Leod that. he had
acted under the commands of superior officers
with • the express sanction of her . Majesty ?
Fourthly, he wanted to ask whether her Majesty's Go-
vernment had demanded of the Government of the United
States whether after such declaration it was able, and at the
same time willing, to guarantee the safety and liberation
of Mr. M'Leod, notwithstanding any determination of
the State of New York to go on with the proceed..
ings now pending in the Courts of that State
against. that, gentleinan ; and, lastly, he should
ask if the Government .of the United States admitted,
the validity of such authority as a protection over
M'Leod, and if- having so admitted it, if the Noble Lord
the, Secretary for Foreign Affairs could state any
circumstance which justified the continued detention
of Mr. M‘Leod by the -authority of the State of New
York. He thought it would turn out that things hail
been stated which would ease the minds of the people` of
this country with respect to this subject, and it was with
that object in view that he proposed the above question.

Lord PALMERSTON said that he would be the last
man in that House in "any way to curtail whatever in-
formation he might' be able to :give on any
subject. However, he felt him:All bound to
remark, that the proceedings on the part of
the Hon. Member who had just sat down, were some-
what irregular. He was sure the House would
say, that if questions upon an emergency of
great difficulty were preceded by a sort of
narrative of transactions to which they related,
and interspersed with interrogations, it became very
difficult for the person who was to answer those interro-
gations, to refrain from going at length into the subject
to which these questions referred, and thus under the
form of asking a question a debate might be
brought on involving topics of great national importance.
He had no doubt that the statement which lie was about
to make would tend to relieve the minds of many
persons who, might think that the present state of the
question, with regard to Mr. M'Leod was one likely
to bring on any serious difference between the two
countries. The narrative of the Hon. Member was he
believed substantially correct. He had no paticelar re-
mark to make upon it. It was quite true, as he stated,
that upon the first demand made by her Majesty's
Government for the liberation of Mr. M'Leod, an
answer was returned by the late Secretary of
State in America, which was by no means satisfac-
tory, and he was quite ready to admit that as
a doctrine of international law, no one country
had a right to state in reply to a demand of redress of a
wrong done to another - country, or to a subject of
another country, that it had peculiar institutions.
Nations being to each other as aggregate communities,
one nation could know-nothing of the international laws
or the internal constitution of another. If a wrong were
done, redress must be given, and if the laws and consti-
tution of the country did not give that redress, they
must either alter the laws and constitution, or sub-
mit to the alternative.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Now
although the first reply was, as he thought,
entirely wrong as a principle of international law, yet
he had the satisfaction to inform the Honourable Mem-
ber and the House, that from the: present Govern-
ment of the United States a communication had been,
received,- of a formal instruction given to the Attorney-
General of the United States, which contained doctrines
perfectly just and consistent with the law of nations,
and perfectly in accordance with the principles upon
which the British Government had demanded, the re-
lease of Mr. M'Leod, and the pasage which he should
read from the instructions of the Attorney-General, an
instruction given by Mr. Webster answered at once two,
and perhaps more, of the questions of the honourable
Member, because it showed that the British Go-
vernment had avowed their entire responsibility of
the attack made upon the Caroline, and that the
American Government considered that question as one
to be dealt with between the two Governments, and to-
tally unconnected in any way whatever with the ques-
tion how Mr. M'Leod was to be dealt with. This in-
struction was dated the 15th March in the present year,
from Mr. Webster ..to W. Crittenden, ,the Attorney-
General of the United States, who was proceeding
to New York on business connected with the States.
He recited in the first place that which had
passed why Mr. M'Leod had been arrested and on
what ground, and it then said—" I have now to inform
you that Mr. Fox has addressed a letter to Mr. Barclay,
dated the 12th inst., in which, under the imme-
diate instruction and direction of his Government,
he demands Mr. M'Leod's immediate release,_
on the ground that the transaction on account of which
he has been arrested, and is now to be put on his trial, was
of a public character, planned and executed by persons
duly empowered by her Majesty's colonial authorities.
to take any steps, and to do any acts which might be
'neceisary for the protectiou of her Majesty's Canadas,
and the defence of her Majesty's subjects ; and that,
consequently, those subjects of her Majesty who
had been engaged in that transaction, were perfbrming
an act of public duty, for which they cannot be
made, personally and individually, answerable to
the laws and tribunals of any foreign country.—(Hear.)
And that her Majesty's Government had further
directed Mr: Fox to make known to the
Government of the United States that her Majesty's
Government entirely approved of the course pur-
sued by Mr. Fox. and the language adopted by
him in his correspondence. Mr. Webster went on
to deny ; there is, therefore, now an authentic
declaration, on the part of the British Government, that
the attack upon the- Caroline was an act of public force
done by military men, acting under the orders of supe-
riors, and recognised us such by the Queen's Ministers.
The importance of this declaration was not to be ques-
tioned, and the present President is of opinion that it
calls upon him, in the performance of his high duty, to
state that the individual acting under the authority
of his Government, as part of a public free
is not, he held, as a private trespaSser or malefactor, and
that that is a principie sanctioned by the usages of all
civilized nations, and which the Government of
the United States has no inclination to dis-
pute.— (Hear, hear.) This has no connection
whatever with the question of whether in this case the
attack on the Caroline was, as the British Govern-
ment thinks it was, a justifiable employment
of military force for the purpose of defending
British territory from an unprovoked attack, or
whether it was a most unjustifiable invasion of its
territories in time of peace as this Government asserts
Then two questions are essentially different, and while
acknowledging that an individual may stand exempted
from the consequences of his act, by showing that he
acted under competent authority, this Government is
not to be understood as changing its opinion
with regard to the character of the transaction
which resulted in the destruction of the Caroline. That
subject it is not necessary, for the objects of this corre-
spondence, to discuss. All that is intended to be said
at present is, that since the attack of the Caroline is
viewed as a national act, which may justify reprisals
or a general star, as the United States Government'
may seem fit to decree, yet it raises a question ent:rely
public and political—questions between independent na-
tions, and that the individual concerned in it cannot be
arrested and tried before the ordinary tribunals as for a
violation of municipal law. If the attack on the Caroline
was unjustifiable, as this-Government has asserted, the
law violated is the law Qf nations, and the redress to be
sought is the redress authorised in such cases by
that code. You are • well aware that the Presi-
dent has no power to resist the proceedings in the civil
Courts of New York. If this was an indictment in one
of the Courts of the United States, I am directed to say
that the President, on the receipt of Mr. Fox's last com-
munication to Mr. Forsyth, would 'have directed a
could be more honourable to the Govern-
mil: proseque to be entered.—(Cheers.) Nothing
United States, or more satisfactory to the
inm elniitseoteitnnieon,
British Government, than that public declaration.
He thought that he had now answered all the questions
of the Hon. and Learned Gentlemen except one, which
was, whether the Government of the United States made
their demands as for an injury done to the United States,
or the State ,of New York above ? Unquestionably
the demand was from the first placed upon the
ground of an injury done to the United States—
(Hear)—and in the last Session of Parliament, when
he (Lord Palmerston) had a few words to say upon this
Subject, he stated that it was therefore impossible for
the United States to turn round and deny redress on
the ground that this was a question between Great
Britain and the State of New York.—(Hear, hear.)
It was true that the Constitution of the United States
placed all matters between tde States and Foreign Pow-
ers in the hands of the Federal Government. The
Constitution said that "No State shall enter
into any treaty with Foreign Powers, nor make
war, nor grant letters of marque," or do certain
other things " without the consent of Congress. No
State, without the consent of Congress, shall keep an
army or ships of war in time of peace, or do any act of
war, except in case of imminent danger.—(Hear, hear.)
It was perfectly true that this question could no more be
said to be between Great Britain and the State of New-
York, than if America had felt herself aggrieved by
Great .Britain, it could be said that the question was
between America and the County of Rutland.—(Hear.)
The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had said that in the
outset o: the affair the Government of Great Britain
ought to have sent a special envoy to the state of New
York. But that would be, in fact, a nullification or
denial of the constitution of the United States—(Hear,
hear)—and the latter would be entitled to resent
it as an affront.—(Hear, hear.) He (Lord Palmerston)
would not enter now into any statement or speculation
as to what was to come.—(Hear, hear.) He would
4pti -40,e what step the United States would take to carry
not
om 4
Qt intp99,pional lay which Federal
doy‘oiiiinegis s;! handsp*ely. reeoo4ed.r-(Cheers.)