The Sun.
London, England, 1841-01-27 00:00:00

.:‘!ORNING

lent nation—one that had done mucb for the civilization
of Europe and the world—and he Gould not speak of such
a nation without sincere esteem.— (Cheers. ) Nor could
ho wonder when the Government of France appealed to
their feelings of honour and interest, that it produced
feelings of irritation and estrangement, because the people
could not follow the traits of negotiation, but he old
Wonder that the Government of France had
been to reckless as thus to endanger the peace of
the two countries. This naturally excited feelings of
alarm and insecurity, and gave it to be understood t'ecre
Were in England feelings of hostility and estrangerm to
which never had existed.—(Cheers.) His Noble Friend
had stated at the cod of last Session, in reply to the lion.
Member for Kilkenny, that this Treaty was not intended
against France. He believed such was, the rule they had
laid down for themselves, and he could not conceive what
grounds there were for a contrary statement. lie thought
the dignity of France had b lowereby the course their
Government had pursued.e—en (Cheers) What was the
natural course to adopt in such a case? Why, to enter into
an arrangement and to say to the Pacha, Such i' the drrangC-
trim, and you must accept it. Therefore in the present
transaction, he maintained that it was not the conduct of
England which led to the separation which he
lamented, but it was the unfortunate conduct
of„ the French Government in transferring to
Mehemet An that attachment they had always professed
towards the Sultan. With respect to the signing of the
Treaty, he knew it had been said that a proposition would
°gain be made to Mehemet Ali. Up to July they had ne-
gotiated in vain. The people of Syria had risen against
Mehemet Ali. The Government of England knew that
the opinion of the French Government seas decidedly
adverse to them, and if they had asked them to sign the
treaties it would have led to proposals to negotiate, and
thus the whole of the year 1840 would have been
lest When he read the exposition given by the French
Minister of Foreign Affairs, he could not doubt that
If the consent of the French Government had been
asked to those terms there would have been some cavil
about the words of that Treaty, or about the entry of
the English fleet into the Dardanelles. The peace of
Europe would have been still further endangered, and the
security of that great object further off than erer. He
happened
not make any remark with respect to what had
naPeened sine the conclusion of the Treaty. His Noble
Friends, who .had moved and seconded the Address, had
expressed their sense of the valour of the navy of this coun-
try. and all that had been engaged in this eihtdttiwein
especially of those who had been engaged at Acre,
in those statements he fully concurred, and he
'trusted that
,the enterprise which had been shown
vith`'eldthe effect of putting an end to
~.°3e unfounded remarks. He ventured to say, when
re inefficiency of the navy was stated to the House that
't was difficult in times of peace to prove that ships and
teen were worthy of the name of the British navy, but he
Would venture- to predict that if an occasion arose they
Would maintain the glory of their country. He had no
doubt but that the achievements in the East had been
attended with danger, but he knew the course that had
been adopted was that least likely to be attended with
danger, and for his own part he saw no course that was
likely to lead to so satisfactory a result. He thought they
might hope it would release the Sultan from the dread of
ea vassal, and give stability to his country and throne. If
*this were the result of the course adopted by the Govern-
ment, he thought the people would have no cause to com-
plain of those in whose hands the Government had been
placed.—( Hear.) Before he con&uded what he had to
say with respect to their foreign affiirs, he would state
to the lieuse that he saw in the course of the discussion
in the French Chambers the name of a noble and honoured
friend of his, lately deceased, had been mentioned. Ile
felt that he could not stale prech.ely what his Noble
Friend's views were en this subject, but this he must say
that all his motives were connected with the general peace
of the world, and that he never departed from them
during the period of his life.—( Hear, hear, hear.)
He would say further that whatever motives actuated him
----whatever policy he supported, he did so with a high
dense of honour and unflinching integrity. He ( Lord
Russell) could, however, state, that he inherited the
opinions as well as the name of Fox, and was the valued
friend of a distinguished character of the day who fol-
lowed and represented the great principles entertained
and advocated by Mr, F, x. The Hon. Member for Lon-
don had, in the latter part of his speech, hoped if there
were to be no improvement at home—if finality prevailed
7,47-We might be able to maintain peace in our provinces.
pith regard to the general domestic policy, that lion.
'Gentleman was entirely mistaken. The Government
were not in any sense enemies—on the contrary, with re-
gard to judicial affairs, matters of trade, and other do-
mestic matte's, they were of opinion that a gradual im-
VoTement might amid ought to be made ; these were the
Principles upon which they wished to stand. But they
Were not willing to confound abuses with institutions—
they would not defend abuses as institutions; and, on the
other hand, they would not destroy institutions as abuses.
,7a wished to maintain an Established Church, an Here-
ditary Peerage, and Hereditary Monarchy, and if any
proposition were made to destroy any of them, he
Would find it his duty to oppose it with all the
tittw,erof the Goverreneht, thinking, as ho did,
tneY would lead to convulsion, and would
nift;P:no, if knot destroy, all chance of our obtaining any
sea loc re}' improvement. He wished to see improvements
hying
ttall ways, and he would gladly co-operate in car-
hula t 5 "ern into effect. Other occasions would offer for
onenZtlaih himself more at large ; he would therefore
willing'JY saying that the Government were perfectly
4
which° ° take upon themselves all the responsibility
M attached to all they had done, and while they re-
sone- Ministers they would maintain those principles
e Lo ud
a they thought were for the benefit of the country.—
cheers.)
MILNES then rose, but was not heard for some
tt" ttv reimieence
tYetgigisadogvitWe hr
wasi‘sig Mange
in this country on foreign affairs, and he was glad
at the Noble Lord had avowed the responsibility of the
Government for their acts; he would also hold them re-
sponsible for their omissions. He did not think the Noble
"rd had answered the Hon. Member for London in a
satisfactory manner. He wished to impress on the House
that the intervention which had taken place in consequence
of
the Treaty of July was a different thing from that moral
LitlPPort which was given to the Ottoman empire
°Y the gallant fleet of the Five Powers. He thought
There was a painful omission in the Speech of her Ma-
jesty, for he agreed that the very peculiar circumstances
4, which our foreign relations now stood, not only autho-
Cited, but absolutely demanded some expressions of regret
lit the rupture that bad taken pace between this country
Intl France. That expression of regret not having taken
Place, he felt bound to protest against the assumption
that the intention of the Treaty of July, namely the inte-
grity and independence of the Ottoman empire, had been
eteured. He believed the angry feeling the French us-
tion had attributed to us did not exist, and he hoped the
';‘loble Lord would state so this evening. England had no
Immediate interest in this question. He did not accuse
the intentionsof her Majesty's Ministers, but he did accuse
them of shortsightedness, of ignorance of the character of
the French people and of French history.—
t Hear, hear.) Any person who had paid attention
to French history would know that the French had al-
ways been engaged in active hostility or co-operation with
ether Powers, and that they would keenly feel anything
which in the least approximated to a slight on their alli-
ance. He did not wish to apologise for the over-sensitive-
ness of the French people, but it should have been taken
into consideration before Ministers had risked the awful
continency of a rupture with that nation. The Noble
Lord had asked them whether if England bad been placed
the position of France, she would have adopted the
tame course which France had taken. He knew the apathy
of the English people with respect to foreign affairs, and
lie believed it would require great excitement to arouse
`liens; but if France and Russia had bound themselves
together to protect the East he believed this country
would have risen to oppose it.—( Hear, hear.) The
Present state of the country was greatly to be deplored ;
tt was in a state of armed peace, and he was much afraid
that state of armed peace would continue. In condo-
'ion, he called upon her Majesty's Government most
anxiously to consider the state of affairs between this coun-
try and France, and to do all in their power to heal the
wound they had inflicted ; for until France became part
of the coalition of Europe there would be no peace for
England.
Mr. HUME then rose to address the House. If he
had not paid particular attention to this question he should
have rested his opposition to the policy of her Majesty's
Ministers on the speech of the Hon. Member for London ;
but having brought this subject before the House last year,
be felt bound to call their attention to the dangerous anus,
don in which the Government had placed the country.
He complained of the course which the Noble Lord had
pursued. He had not been candid with the House, and
had not laid before the House the negociations that were
going on, fearful, no doubt, that the House would have
interfered and have stopped that mad career which (sett
i~laced there in their present unfortunate situation. The
ouse had always been denied information. The treaty
was conclnded in July, and the House did not separate till
August ; yet the Noble Lord thought proper to withhold
every paper nn the subject. It' the necessary information
bad been laid before the House the Noble Lord would not
have had a majority in the Cabinet in favour of his views.
They had heard a great deal of what passed in the Cabinet
--in fact everybody now knew what passed in the Cabinet.
—( A laugh.) The channels of the Government commu-
nicated it to the public. If the Whig papers did not the.
Tory papers did ; so that between the two there was
no difficulty in knowing what the opinions of
her Majesty's Ministers were.—( Loud laughter.)
It was well known that one nobitenan, whose loss the
country deeply deplored, had been decidedly opposed to
the policy which had been pursued by the Governeseet,
arid he (Mr. Hume) believed that vexation at the course
affairs were taken, bad hastened that nobleman's decease.
The Commons House of Parliament had been treated
with great disrespect by the Government, and he be-
tl_eved that a state of alienation had been created between
France and England, which would be productive of most
disastrous consequences to the welfare of this country, '
and perhaps at no distant period disturb the peace of
Europe. He considered the policy of the Government,
not only bad, as regarded the ConunerCe of the country,
but wicked as regarded the desolation and ruin which had
beer, perpetrated upon an unoffending province. The
Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies had declared
that hit would assert the independence of the Sultan, and
they had been told by the organs of the Government that
it was necessary to put down the grinding tyranny of
Mehemet Ali. He was nat going to apologize for
Mehemet Ali's conduct, but he would ask the Noble
Lord by whom had the independence of the Ottoman em_
Aire beets threatened ? He denied that it had been
threatened by Mehemet Ali. The real fact was this,
that the Sultan, although under terms of treaty of peace
with Mehemet Ali, in 1839, with the evident intention
of everwhelining Mehemet Ali, without notice, and con-
trary to the acknowleged pledge he had given, marched a
large force ir.to Syi ia, and shacked the villages, and part of
the army of Ibrahim Pacha. lie endeavoured to raise the
People against Ibrahim Pacha, but Ibrahim Pacha almost
anibilatqd his army. He stated this as a proof that if

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