The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-06 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF LORDS, Feb. 5.
the LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool •
:k at Five o'clock.
EXCHEQUER-BILLS AND RAILWAY DIVI-
DENDS.
Lord BROUGHAM moved for a return of the
It ices of Exchequer-bills, from the Ist of Fe-
uary, 1846, to the Ist of February, 1847, and for
a return at the dividends raid on railway stock
du ring It'te same period. He also moved for a
r" the names of all the holders of railway shat es
ott the e it of February, 1847, who were Irish proprietors.
act was not one of mere idle curiosity, but as it
81)p ear, ti that there was some intention of assimilating
Jr. Anerd with England, it was but right that this informa-
tic 'a she .uld be given in order that they might know how
to legis late. He desired this the more as he found that
sti st,itet sent had been made last night in another place,
the ()fejt ict, the express object, of which was to raise the
Price o f railway shares by distributing money through-
out the country, so that those shares which stood at 1001.
might ' be raised to 2001. Ha would take that oppor-
tunity t )f vindicating himself from a grievous misrepre.
'emetic n. He did not generally care about misrepre-
sentatk n; but he had been so painfully assailed by so
many letters, that he wished to put himself right,
for he was described as one of the most cruel and
hard-he erted individuals in existence. It was stated
that he wished to raise the price of bread. What he
actually said was, that it was better that bread should be
dear rather than cheap in a time of scarcity ; for if
wheat v (ere to be brought to market cheap at such a
period tl he whole produce would quickly be bought up;
and thit es, if there was a scarcity in the month
of Febi liarYt that scarcity would become fa-
mine in , the month of June. The very words he
need w ete, that he would rather bread was dear
than cl leap, lest scarcity should become dearth, and
dearth be converted into famine. His Noble Friend
(the D & ike of Rutland) had put his establishment on
three.-fifths of their usual allowance, and he had done
the slam e. The question of price did not affect such
P. emotes as his Noble Friend and himself, but it did
natural]
.y affect the poor labourer, and therefore he de-
eired th at the bread should be kept up, so that the whole
of the s applies should be exhausted before they got the
fresh h. invest in. He thought that in times of distress,
espetial ly, public men should not be misrepresented.
Lord STANLEY perfectly agreed with his Noble
:Friend (Lord Broughate) that public men should not be
misrept caseated, but he had stated that a great and corn-
Prebeneeive measure which was introduced the other
slight in another place was brought in solely
!for th e purpose of raising the price of shares.
A mort t frivolous misrepresentation could not be made.
He did not intend to stop then to urge the policy of the
ineasur a of his Noble Friend, because, unless the
interposition of the Crown were exercised to
pass it into a law, without the intervention of
their I- ordships, it would shortly come before them
fser dist session, but he could Hot forbear stating that
'the obje :t of the Bill was not to raise the value of rail-
way sha res in Ireland, but for the purpose of promoting
its inter, arts, without adding one shilling to the taxes of
the People of this country.—(Hear, hear.) It was for
carrying out works of great public utility, which, with-
out the aid of the. State, must be discontinued at the
very time when they were most necessary—for the
purpose ef encce araging attd improving the condition of
the agrieoltural labourers of that country, and for fur-
nishing tl e me ans for giving constant employment to a
large port ion ( tf the population for the next four years
at least, bat not withdrawing them from agricultural
employs] ent by giving them too easy or too well-paid
work. rile, object was to facilitate improvements in the
internal cc r amunication of the country, at a time when
capital fro so private individuals was checked, on account
of the dep iorable condition of the pe pie. Entertaining
great rasp set for his Noble Friend in another place (Lord
G. Bentin ek), and for his Noble and Learned Friend in
that Hutu to (Lord Brougham), he could not allow it to go
forth that ; the scheme propounded by his Noble Friend
had for i! .s object to increase the value of railway shares,
because i t had tor its object, as he had said, the promo-
tion of great national improvements of great public
advanti4 e, without casting any additional burdens on
the people of this country.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord B ROUGHAM thought his Noble Friend must
have bet at attending to something else, and not being
able to l ie.ten to two things at once, had attributed a
statemet it to him which he did not make. He did not say
that the object of the Bill was for the purpose of bene-
fiting pri mate individuals by enabling them to sell their
shares at a higher value than they could at present. Un-
doubted] y the grou ndwerk of the measure was to apply
capital t o Irish rv.ilways, and to enable railway owners
to sell their railway shares. What he stated
was, tha t for,evssry tool, worth ef shares sold out another
1001. worth would be bought in. He had not read the
debate o f Last night—in fret, he was not often in the
habit of re ading them—but a friend had informed him
that the B ill would enaele the holders of shares to sell
them, an' L, to invest their capital in others. He had no
monoma aia against Tailwas s; he only wanted to see
there
ca tried out ar, the expense of their promoters, and
not at tl ie expdn'A of others.
The !Duke 'A RICHMOND could not allow the mea-
sure to. 'De disposed of in the present manner without
easing a fk.:w words on the subject. It was a measure
calculat tee to be of more permanent service than any
measur e which had ever been introduced since he had been
in th at House. It appeared to him to commence
at the right end—(Cheers)—and would induce capital
Jove from this country to Ireland, and the conse-
q' mice would be that the Irish people would consume
%genre exciseable articles, be better able to live on the
produce of their own agriculture; it would improve the
rtnorals of the people, and it would also be the means of
(enabling them to consume more manufactured
:goods, and thereby extending the home markets, which
after all, was the foundation of the great prosperity of
this country. He did not oppose the motion of his
Noble and Learned Friend, and he hoped that there
would be enough English and Scotch Members to
carry that Bill through who were not in the least
connected with railways. (Cheers.) The people
of England were not called upon to give money by this
measure to the people of Ireland; the measure was one
which wculd take nothing out of the pockets of the
People of England, but would give support to the people
of Ireland.—(Cheers.)
Earl FITZWILLIAM said that ho had nothing to
offer in oppcsition to the motion of the Noble and
Learned Lord. He regretted the tone of the conversa-
tion which had taken place on the subject. It might be
considered that the Noble and Learned Lord had some
sidelong view in wishing to have the names of all
those, persons who might be possessed of shares in Irish
railways. He was aware, on looking to the votes
et tie House of Commons, that a measure had been in•
Ittoduced into that House for the purpose of facilitating
`the making of railroads in Ireland. He then looked
anxiously to see whether the Bill was brought in by the
Noble Lord at the head of the Government ; be
was disappointed, however, to see that the Noble
Lord was not the author of the Bill ; but
'when he saw, not from the official accounts, but from
sect:rants, though not official, perhaps quite as accurate,
that the Bill was in such very able hands as the Noble
Lord's who had introduced it, he was much gratified,—
'(Loud cheers.) The Noble Lord had exhibited zeal,
industry, and ability, which had entitled him
to the gratitude of the Irish people and the
United empire. He wished that the measure had been
int the hands of the Government, and that they had
had the credit of introducing such a crowning measure
as had been introduced.—(Cheers.) He hoped there
'ould be no interference with the prerogative to pre-
-vent the measure passing.—(Cheers.) lie came down
to the house determined to express his opinions upon
the s'abject ; and, considering the relation in which he
itt-'.od with her Majesty's Government, he felt it his duty
ft° state to them what course he meant to pursue.
He could not conceive that, as they were not the au-
thors of the measures, it would not be agreeable to
them that he should rise and express his opinions in
favour of the measure.—(Cheers.) In whatever hands
the measure may be in, when it came up to their Lord-
aillps' House, he was determined to give it his most
strenuous and undivided support. He certainly thought
Meat the Railway system should be in the hands of the
Government rather than of individual members or com-
panies, who would be supposed always to study their
Own interests rather than the great interests of the whole
country, and especially Ireland in its present state.
Ile had deep rooted opinions that the whole railway
&system should be in the hands of the Government. It
Nas a most anomalous thing, that all the means of
travelling should be in the hands of some
- great companies. These opinions he had entertained
and expressed, for many years, to their Lordships.
He hoped the Government would take the measure into
their own hands, as he believed it would be ofsmore use
than any other measure which had been brought under
the notice of the House by her Majesty's Ministers.
Now he was not going to express any opinion, either for
or against the landlords of Ireland, but he thought
that the measure which contemplated them-
provement of the country through the instru-
mentality of one class could not possibly produce
those beneficial results which theyought to
contemplate. lie thought, connected with this great
measure of railways, there ought to be a system of
emigration, if not carried on, at least largely assisted.
by Government.--c Hear, hear.) He thought that
the persons employed upon railways ought to
have the opportunity of emigrating gradually
and he was decidedly an advocate for some gradual sys-
tem of emigration going on throughout the whole sur-
face of the land. Upon these grounds he was
decidedly of opinion that, instead of these
railways being intrusted to private companies, they
ought to be taken up and constructed ay Government at
the public expense.—(Hear. hear.)
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said he did not in-
twad to oppose the return, nor did he apprehend that
the Motion would have given rise to any discussion.
After what had fallen, however, from the Noble:Lord,
who had just resumed his seat, he must be allowed
to say a worn; or two. The particular preroga-
iZtthe Noble Earl had alluded to was one of the
constitutional preroeatives attached to the
Crown, and one which •
It would be injudicious
and unwise to abandonin in any instance.Asyet
it had not been
whether it would
iteerposed to stop this measure, but
depend upon
the
opinieoxereised by the Crown would
pinion
entertained by her Majesty's
advisers as to the decP
was likely to produce.e tuitsleiliefubtlhiec imnetearseusrte.
He was surprised that this u-
on
ob servation should have been
Made on a motion like this, and especially one which
had been made without notice.
The Earl of WINCHILSEA could not refrain from
making a few observations, for no man felt more deeply
the.s dist7ss. o: f his fellow-countrymen than he
;etc t , he give all credit to her Ilia-
--,,Aernment foe their intent;- * and while
441ve
_fully appreciai.ed the difficulties with which tile),
o.tO.,eoentend, he still must sa that the measures a IloPotied to introduce would never prove of

any permanent utility to the people of Irelaa'l. Th
population of that country had been doubled within
the last twerty years, and it was perfectly el: ar that the
land could th,ver provide sufficient employment for the
poor of that country, and they would be driven into some
extensive measure ot colonisation to relieve the country of
its surplus population. lie had always advocated
some system of colonisation, yet if it were to be
carried out to any effective extent, it would require
an outlay of at least 4,000,0001. or 5,000,C09/. per an-
num. This was not a greater sum than the plan pro-
posed by his Noble Friend in the other House, and he
did think that if that plan were adopted, it would, by
facilitating intercourse throughout the county, be
productive of excellent results, and return a
large advantage to this country for the outlay
that was made tleffrct it. Yet, at the same time, he still
believed that the Government would be driven into
some great and comprehensive scheme for the perma-
nent improvement of Ireland.
TRANSPORTATION.

In reply to the liarquis of SALISBURY,
Earl GREY stated that the papers on transportation
would be laid on the table in the course of a few days.

EDUCATION.

The Marquis of LANSDO WNE, after laying some
papers on the table, proceeded to state to their Lord-
ships the nature of the minute which the Privy Coun-
cil had lately adopted with respect to education. He
lid he might have laid the minute on the table without
offering any remarks pith respect to it, as the altera-
tions which it proposed would be carried out without
the intervention of either Houses of Parliament ; but
he thought it right, as early in the Session as possible,
to put their Lerch-hips in possession of the views which
her Majesty's Government entertained on the subject of
the education of the people. He confessed it would
have given great satisfaction to him it' he had been
enabled to state that the Government were prepared
with a plan of public education for the people of this
country, su largo, so comprehensive as at once to put the
population, with respect to education, in that condition
in which it was in some parts of Europe, in which an
uneducated child was an almost solitary exception, and
in which it might be said, "that edac•ttion was con-
sidered univereally necessary." But he was bound to
state that it had not appeared to her Majesty's Govern-
ment that they could practically effect a system of
education upon a large and universal scale. It un-
doubtedly might have been attempted, but it could only
have been attempted with serious, if not with over-
whelming, difficulties. It could they thought only be
made comprehensive, or, at least, so comprehensive as
to include in the same plan, and in the same schools,
placed under the control of the Government, not only
all conditions of the people, but of all religious denomi•
nations ; and the longer he hail observed the progress of
the question, the more convinced he had become of the
dtflieulties which would have to be encountered in
attempting a system of education on a scale so enlarged,
and with views so extensive. These difficulties were
not new, and he appealed in corroboration of this to his
Noble and Learned Friend (Lord Brougham), who had
been so honourably and so valuably connected with the
progress of education, and stands connected with the pro-
motion of a general system of education, such as her Ma-
jesty's Government would consider proper to be sup-
ported. It might Lie said that that which individuals
had failed to do the Government might effect. This
was not so in the case of education, as all the efforts of
Government would be met by feelings of mistrust and
jealousy among two classes of the people, one of whom,
consisting of perhaps the most pious and conscientious
persons, objected to education being carried on at all in
a mixed school ; the other class being that not unim-
portant one which deprecated entirely all interference of
the state in matters of education. When ho stated that
these were two powerful classes of objectors, he did not
mean to say that their opinions were at all universal.
It could not, however, be supposed that there were not
many learned and religious persons who considered that
although the dangerous path to learning should not be
trod without the light of religious instruction to
guide them, still he thought that it was
quite possible to educate under the same roof'
children of different denominations, and holding
various religious opinions. The Government had there-
fore come to the conclusion that it was not expedient
to introduce any general or extended measure of educa-
tion. It did, however, appear to the Government, that it
was nee- scary to give, under various heads, some assist-
ance towards the establishing and extension of
education beyond that which had hitherto been
set apart for that purpose, and also to stimu-
late efforts of those individuals and societies under
whose patronage the schools had already been supported.
Their Lordships would be glad to know what had been
the operation of the existing Bill. He was glad to say
that there had been a progressive increase in the grants
that had been made between the years 1833 and 1846.
The grants during that period amounted to 490.0001,
and this sum had secured education annually for 700,000
children. All the schools to which grants were made
had been inspected, and he was glad to say that a num-
ber of schools who did not require grants had petitioned
the Council to have inspectors sent down to
examine into the condition of their institutions. In
addition to those included in the grants he hail
mentioned, there were a number of diocesan
and normal schools that had received assistance.
We now come to the sugge-tions which, though not of
great importance, yet they sit in the tight direction.
The first was, that the inspection be more frequent, and
that the establishment should be sufficient for inspection
once a year. To insure this, the addition of three
or four inspectors was made. The next subject to
which he would invite the attention of their Lordships
was the rep ins from the schools. Most of these reports
showed one great difficulty, and that was not only a de-
ficiency of masters competent to their duties, but also cf
assistants fit for their duties. It was, therefore,preposed
that in all good schools the masters should be allowed to
tike apprentices from among the best boys, and for each
apprentice the master should have an allowance granted,
the guardians, inspectors, and visitors, having the right
of recommending those boys who were most fit
for the duty, and thus a regular supply of school-
masters instructed and trained for their position.
It was proposed, beyond this, that from the apprentices
so trained for the purpose of adding to the general stock
of schoolmasters, a certain number should be selected
for the purpose of entitling that number, having con-
ducted themselves well, and usefully contributed to carry
on the discipline of the school—he said a certain num-
ber would be selected for the purpose of having exhibi-
tions for normal schools, thus constituting another
element in thir progress towards the station of school-
masters. But not only was it their intention to grant
these exhibitions, but, as there would be probably
a certain number of persons intended for
the office of schoolmasters that might not
be after all, although they might have con-
ducted themselves properly, although they might
have taken pains to avail themselves of the ad-
vantages offered them, although they might have bene-
fited to a certain extent, still after all this training, they
might not be found fitted for the office of schoolmasters,
and it was, therefore, proposed that an arrangement
should be made in which he had the satisfaction of
stating that the Noble Lord at the head of the Treasury,
and his Right lion. Friend the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, had expressed their entire concurrence. An
arrangement had been made by which a certain
number of these apprentices, not becoming school
masters, should be entitled to employment in the
revenue departments of the state. This would con-
stitute a double encouragement for these young men, by
which a greater number might be qualified to attain the
office of a schoolmaster ; and if found unfitted for that
office, still Government would not lose the benefit of
their services in another of its departments. There
would be of course for the purpose of carrying out this
system, a periodical examination of the pupils, and this,
also, would have the effect of advancing them in their
progress towards that office. He now came to another
subject which he considered must be materially altered
to affect the general course of education.—(Hear.)
There was no class of men in this country who had more
claim upon the gratitude of the country, or who were
better entitled to the attention and favour of the Govern-
ment than the schoolmasters of England. There was no
class of men more unlikely to reap, in a worldly
sense, the reward of their toils and exertions.
Many of those who had considerable influence over the
character and interests of the children, saw them ad.
vancing to prosperity while they were themselves
chained down to their laborious exertions in a state of
hopelessness and without requital, and, in many in-
stances, dispirited by their want of success ; their feel-
ings chilled by want, and checked by penury. It was,
therefore, proposed that a small provision should be
made for the schoolmasters in their old age ; and that
any person who could show that they had for fifteen
years conducted, in an unexceptionable manner, a
public school should be entitled to the provision.
—( Hear, hear.) This provision would be made
upon the reports of the inspectors made to
the Treasury at the period of their visitation.
It was proposed, in connexion with these schools to es
tablish places of industry, or workshops, so that children
during their leisure hours might receive instructions in
some useful craft, and the gentlemen in the neighbour-
hood would be stimulated to give their assistance and
co-operation to those schools ; but it would also tend to
obviate what had always been felt as a great evil,
namely, that of parents withdrawing their children from
the school, from what they considered useless'- earning,
ith a view of putting them to something which they
thought would be more useful to their families. l
trusted, however, that the introduction of this systemle
pf,r)uonvedemnt
are indeed already established, and are yehrye•sseucsccehsos
would effect a great change.schools
Some of t
athnadtdehsiere
foh
radim
at the present moment. He was happy to say
religion, but he should notenvery
oingeneralhis
duty
beti-mong all the ministers of
cio-Aeration
h d d
not declare among all den • ominations he had received the
most able assistance from
of England. Not a day amssed the clergy of the Church
ee,,,, ofp the
wont
receiving letters
entinuallv e mpfeo
for the children of their peeishes9nat of such instruction
nd4
say, that the exertions they had madetehawdas been emi-
nently to
successful in alleviating the ' evil. An excellent
by
account of the benefit which was wrought this diffu-
sionpamphlet
of education was given in the of a clergy-
man named Dawes, who had succeeded in establishinga school in his parish, and had so completely altered the
character of the place, that whereas it had been (Latin
guished for vice and immorality ten years before it was
how equally eminent for the reduction of crime, and the
improvement of the whole of its inhabitants. He had
also succeeded by the success of his schools, that he had
completely broken down prejudice, and the feeling of
class had been done away with, and the farmers sent
their children to the same schools as those which their
labourers attended. And it was even a fact, that farmers
from distant parts sent th..?ii children to beeed is the
-village; in order that they might have the benefit of at-
tending on Me. Dames, s schools. This leas a great
triumph. This was at King's Salford, in Hampshire.
This statement he (the Marquis of Lansdowne) had
made, because it Wal a striking proof of the benefits of

edncation. As another instance of the benefit of these
schools—in one of these schools 15S children had been,
out of their little savings—out of the presents of their
—(Hear,
hear.)
Ile
ataotipe
jupracthase
edgrlesa/t. worth books.
froth
the establishing of' these industrial schools.: and
r
iets pweacsi aal
113;m
ofro intendedttheir connexion ct oo tai es
associate
wt
ei t
thhtehme wwri,trhk htthnet se
%s.
0,
rfko
houses, and to establish libraries in them. Great com-
plaint had been made of the want of books, and of the
difficulty of obtaining cheap sets, and it was, therefore,
intended, out of the grants of last session, to give sets of
books to these schools. lie was quite aware that this
scheme fell far short of the necessity of the case, and of
providing a general instruction for the whole of the peo-
ple. but yet it was a great step, and he trusted it would
prove effectual in at least approaching to a remedy of
the evil. From his own experience, he fully anticipated
that every assistance would be rendered by the ministers
of religion, but he must repeat that he should not be
doing his duty in speaking, of the zeal of those gentle-
men, if he did not say that, of all denomin itions, the
clergy were pre-eminent, short as it was, he believed the
scheme would prove beneficial to the country.
Lord BROUGHAM was sure nothing could be better
than this system which he had just proposed of corning
to Parliament for the money to carry out some plan of
education. It was evident they had no sufficient plan.
He lamented as much as his Noble Friend that they
found themselves just as far as ever from having a
national, a public, or general system. That was no
fault of theirs or any other Government, but it arose
from some evil in the state of society, which while it
lasted would baffle all attempts to obtain universal edu-
cation. He was no friend to compulsory education.
People who generally complained of the want of educa-
tion, wished to know why they did not adopt the se stem
of Prussia. Did they know there the system of education was
almost a military system? Did they know that if they took a
recipe from a physician in this country, he could not, as
happened to a friend of his, get it made up when they
applied to a druggist, without going through the hands
of a physician regularly educated there? Everything
there was compulsory. But that sort of thing would not
do here, although it was all very well in Prussia, where
the people were too ignorant to feel the evil. An Eng-
lishman was net to be forced, for the more you at-
tempted to compel him, the farther he would recede. Let
them, however, provide cheap schools, and they would
stimulate private beneficence, and the people would be
encouraged to send their children to the schools, and
then by degrees, but only by degrees, would they lead to
general education. Let them give a portion of the money
necessary for these schools, and they would bring the
sympathies and the co-operation of the people into play.
The Board of Education had adopted this plan with a view
not to supersede, but to aid private exertion, and nearly
500,0001. had been advanced very advantageously since
1832 for that purpose. Itiucation was the best aid of
religion and the best guardian of morality. All his own
experience, and all the experience of the criminal law
which he or other judges concurred in, the opinion was
that punishment was no preventive of crime compared
with shame. But compel the criminal to refund the
thing he has stolen within forty-eight hours, and he
would never again commit the same offence. No man
committed a crime without an object, and that generally
was to avoid shame. The forger, unless he attempted
to run away, committed forgery in the hope of avoiding
the shame of bankruptcy. That was the sort of view
taken of the subject, and, in very few cases, and in a
very small degree, punishment was not heeded. What,
then. was the remedy? Why, prevention. The crimi-
nals came in almost all cases from an inferior class of
society. Their Lordships were not members of that
class.—(Hear.) It was not persons in their rank who
helped to swell the list of criminals. The proper remedy
for this evil was to educate the youth of the country at a
very early age, and then to instil into their minds such
feelings. as in their Lordships and the higher classes,
prevented the outbreak of such evil passions. Their
Lordships might depend upon it that a wide spread and
general infant education would do more to prevent crime
than all the criminal laws, executions, transportations,
and penitentiaries These were his reasons why age •
neral and well defined system of infant education should
be brought forward and supported by the Government.
The Church and Dissenting communities were most zea-
lously bent upon improving the education of the masses.
It would be ungrateful for him not to notice their exertions
But between the Church and the Dissenters, however,
there was a feeling of controversy which marred their
united exertions, the sole object of each party seemed
to be victory, and both of the parties threw impediments
in the way of an extended scheme of education, which
were all founded upon controversial opinions and
dogmas. It was his opinion that a system of super
vision could not be maintained over the Dissenters,
because they were divided into so many sections—the
Church of England was one, and could therefore be
more easily cultivated by the regulating body, and he
was therefore of opinion, however he might have op-
posed it before, that it would be much the best
way to bring forward a general scheme of education
under the control of the Church. Such a system
should be at once introduced, and if the Dissenters did
not like to take the benefit of the measure, they must
leave it alone ; but he was quite sure that all the better
class of Dissenters would soon adopt the measure, and
thereby incalculable advantages would result to the
State. He thought it would be also advisable to estab-
lish central normal schools in various parts of England,
for the purpose of educating and preparing a class of
schoolmasters and teachers. In the schools established
he thought, too, that it would be a good thing if the
Government were to adopt the system of taking quarter
pence from the children. The parents were much
more likely, when they paid something for their
children's education, to see that they attended the school
regularly. With respect to the proposed plan for giving
pensions to the schoolmasters, he thought that the
period named, fifteen years, was too short a period to
entitle them to a pension.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE—That term was to
the minimum period.
Lord BROUGHAM—In that case he would not have
so much objection. Ho also thought that an improved
system of education was highly desirable. Ile wished
in conclusion to impress upon their Lordships the neces-
sity for establishing upon a large scale, infant schools
for the education of the children of the poor.
The Bishop of LONDON said he should trespass
very shortly on their Lordship's time after what had
been said by several Noble Lords, but the subject was
one which he could not allow to pass without some ob-
servations. He wished, in the first place, to express the
satisfaction with which ho had heard the clear and
candid statement of the Noble Marquis. He thought
the steps which the Government proposed to take were
exceedingly wise and judicious. The important features
of the plan were inspection and encouragement by pecu-
niary grants and pensions to those engaged in normal
or training schools. He considered that no system,
however wisely contrived, unless properly and vigilantly
superintended—not a superintendence induced by
jealous or private curiosity, but a superintendence by
real friends, who were anxious to have the funds voted
by the Government, or given by private and public
beneficence, devoted to the purposes for which they were
intended, and not wasted and thrown away, was the
only superintendence that could really promote a good
and efficient system of education. From the first
introduction of education, aidtd by grants from
the Government, he had pressed upon the
clergy the great advantage which they would
derive by calling in the inspectors, and the preju-
dice formerly entertained with respect to them had de -
parted, and the assistance of the inspectors was found
most beneficial. He thought it right to state that the
inspectors had discharged their duty with courage in the
most unobjectionable manner, and with the utmost con-
sideration and regard for the feelings of the clergy—
and so long as they continued to follow that line of
conduct, so long would they meet with the utmost
facilities during their periodical visits. Then normal
schools had not so much to contend against the want of
funds as the want of efficient means to work them.—
(Hear.) Such as the schoolmaster was, such would be
the school. Therefore, he was satisfied that her Majes-
ty's Government could not act more wisely than in pro-
moting the extension of normal schools, and by training
up schoolmasters in the way mentioned, would induce
them to emulate each other, and to fit themselves to
perform a creditable part in the exhibition which took
place from time to time. He could not help suggesting
to the Noble and Learned Lord the ex; ediency of his
paying a visit to some of the best conducted normal
schools, in which he would find that many of
the suggestions he had made were in actual
operation.—(Hear, hear.) For instance, lineal drawing
had not only been practised for some time in the
National, but in the Normal schools also.—(Cheers.)
Then the Noble and Learned Lord had suggested the
establishment of such schools in different parts of the
kingdom, but at that time there were several in exit
ence; there was one in Chester, one in York, Durham,
Salisbury, and Exeter; so that that great want of which
he had spoken had been partially supplied. He also
suggested the expediency of making the children pay,
what he called, " quarterly pence." Now, there
was scarce a National school, especially in
London, where " weekly pence" was not paid.
the payment quarterly was objectionable. In fact, if
the payments were not more frequent, there was a great
probahility that none would be made. In some cases a
great portion of the expense of the schools was paid in
this way. He only mentioned these things in order to
show the Noble Lord the great improvements that had
been made during the last few years in those schools.
In the school at Chester to which he (the Right 11ev.
Prelate) had alluded, there were several pupils who
when the proper time came, would pass their examina-
tions, and evince perhaps as much knowledge of morals
and phile sophy as those in the schools of modern
Athens, for whose institutions the Noble and
Learned Lord had so much respect.—(Hear, hear.)
There was one part of the statement of the Noble Mar-
quisworkhouse meant the
on which he should reserve his opinion until he had
obtained further information—he
schools, the importance of which could not be
be assimilated to the
national schools so far as the mode of instruction was
over-
rated; and it should not be forgotten that it was ad-
visable that those schools should
concern these workhouse
schools. Ho had visited one in
in which the children
ham), and he was sure, another own parish (Ful-
sensibly
ed. He had visiteds
were more happy, morecleanly,hear.) In looking
amused, did not exist —(hear,
contrasting their
at the children, he could not help con
been, if they had
condition with what it would have
meho t:o
r more
been under the roofs of their parents. He had, as his
Noble Friend knew, taken a lively interest in the esta-
' blishment of infant schools ; he had been instrumental
in establishing the first infant school at Chester. He
was aware, owing to the tender ages of the
that nothing of a controversial nature could be in-
traduced ; but sts they were setnivaries, or 11'. I -r,, to
the training schools, religious instruction eueht to.
be
imeerted at the earliest period in the large towas—
(Hear, hear)—especially as owing to the frequency
with which the children are taken from the schools,
' for the purpose of being set to work, they were deprived