The Sun.
London, England, 1823-03-08 00:00:00

This was the time when relief te the .peopleNras mist nemsaary,"•
awl he did not think the Government had afforded sufficient,
although he thought they had much improved within the last
few years.
Lord PALMERSTON -did not mean to prolong this discus
pion one minute, because the place where the grant of six
millions should be opposed was in the Committee. He rose
-merely to observe, that sinecures had been prospectively abo-
lished—that all sinecures augmented had been reduced—and
even many where there had been no augmentation at all.—
( Hear, hear 1)
Mr. JON ES was desirous that all practicable economy
should be 'observed, but he saw no good result that could arise
from inserting a truism on the journals, such as that contained
in the Amendment. It only stated that it was the duty of the
House to retitle the Estimates as near to those of 1792 as was
consistent with the safety of the State. This was a truism ad.
misted on all hands; But he contended that they had been so
. reduced already, and that with a smaller force we could net
keep the'possession left e 3 at the glorious termination of the
late war.
• Mr. MINI E denied that the Amendment was a truism, as
the' Hon. Member had stated. It stated that the military ex.
-penditure was now ateive six millions, whereas in 1792 it was
naly a little more than two millions.. Ile would ask the Hon.
Metnber if there was any truism in that ?—(A
awned them to be 'facts. As to our Colonies, they were not
worth pr.:serving at suChain expence ; and unless we adopted a
different system in the Government ,of the lonian Islands, our
• whole force would not keep them down. They ought not to
co to the consideration of so important a subject with so thin a
House. Ile had hoped that from the change that appeared to
Nye taken place in the polies, of the Government, further re.
auctions would have been made. As we were withdrawn from
- that Continental Alliance which was doing so much mischief
to the world, he had hoped we should keep to ourselves, and
not require such enormous military establishments.
Mr. Joys explained.
The Amendment was then put and negatived without a df=
v ision.
.A RM V ESTI MATES.
The House then went into a Committee of Supply.
Lord PALMERSTON said, that it was not Ins intention to
.detain the Committee at any length in bringing forward the
Resolutions for the Supplies. The variations from the Esti.
mates of last year were so trifling that a very brief explanation
Would be sufficient. The amount of forces would not vary, ex-
cent that there was a small addition of two companies for the
West India Islands, to have the charge of military culprits.—
The amount of charge would be 10,0001. less. The Committee
would recollect that upon a former occasion, he stated that the
expense of this year would be 50,0001. more than the last, be-
cause the charge was then less than it had a right to be, from a
certain number of regiments going out to India and returning,
dUring which time they were maintained by the CoMpany. In
consequence of various reductions which had been made, there
would be, instead of
,this expected increase, a reduction of
19;7001. Upon the first head of Land Forces, there would be
one of 28,8991. ; upon Staff Officers, a diminution of 70001. ;
An the Public Departments, a diminution of 81301. ; upon Me-
dicines, a decrease of 30001.; upon the Volunteer Corps,
a decrease of 26,0071., leaving upon the first head of the
Estimates a balance of decrease to the amount of 21,1561.

Upon the Retired Charges, there was an increase of 70018.
upon the Royal Military College, a diminution of 20001.; upon
the Army Pay of General Officers an increase of 3941. ; upon
-the Charge for the Garrisons, an increase of 2961 ; upon the
Toil-pay of retired ;Officers a diminution of 89911.; upon the
Half--pay and Military Allowances, a decrease of 14,0041. ;
upon the Foreign Half-pay, a decrease of 11001. ; upon the
charge ft* In-pensioners of Chelsea and ItilmaintlELM
.a diminution of 48311. ; for the Out-pensioners of Chelsea Ifos.
/Arai, an an increaseof34,6B7l. arising from an augmentation of
their numbers. Upon the Royal Military Asylum a diminution
,of 721. ; upon Widows' Pensions an increase of 20001. ; upon
the Compassionete List, county warrants, and pensiona for
Wounds, an increase of 6901. ; upon Superannuation Allow-
etnees, a decrease of 4001.; and the Exchequer fees, of course,
remained the same. ,The Noble Lord then stated that the
&etal of the present estimates, taking the ordinaries, extra-
ordinaries, and barracks, was 950,0001. less than dose, con-
templated by the Finance Committee. He concluded by
mining the first Resolution for the granting of 69,459 land
forces, exclusive of 2,891 men of the Veteran Battalion for
Mr; IIIIII,IE could not see why so large a number of troops
were to be hept up. They could nut be necessary in the. pre.
.eeot state of the country ; and he anticipated, front the changes
which had taken place in the Government that we should see
AO more of t1i042 violent measures against the people which re-
Attievil military force to carry them into execution. The most
„expensive troops were the Foot-guards and the Cavalry,
ornoutiting to 14,000 men ; he was hatilitied that nearly half of
.bride troops might be reduced. Ile could see no necessity what-
ever for having eight thousand cavalry in England. He diii
not, at the present moment, wish to lessen materially the num.
i;vr oe our troops, because in our negotiations now pending,
our doing so might lessen our influence with the other powers.
But saving must be effected by changing the character of the
VOLips and making them all equally useful. The Guards
w~ra.not necessary at all for their present uses, and ought to
be mode available to the service of the Colonies, and other
titr A. HOPE defended the utility of the services performed
by the Guards.
• Mr. MIME explained.
Mr. DENMAN did not rise to oppose the grant, because the
position of. the country was such that it was impossible to say
what energies she might not be speedily called upon to put
',forth. From the intelligence which was arriving every hour,
it tvats probable that our situation might be changed within 24
ikeurs. The distress of a large class undoubtedly demanded
every poesible attention to economy, and to the remission of
tastes ; but that was contingent upon peace, and upon the state
in which the country was placed. When they saw the con-
• federatty of semi-barbarous nations endeavouring to over.wieeltn the liberties of the world, they must look with just alarm
'to their establishing themselves in the South of Europe. '!'heir
intentions had only lately been unmasked to the people of this
-country, who never could believe this they had the audacity to
cotenant, them, until they were publicly declared by a Mi.
:lister of France in the Chamber of Deputies. He was quite
eatiefied that the course taken by the Secretary of State
for Foreign Affairs would be found worthy of this country ;
and he wee sorry that the Right Hon. Gentleman was not
prelim to hear him express that satisfaction. He was
rot less sorry for the cause which prevented him from
being present. If war commenced, our only course was to
elirect hostilities in support of Spain at once. It was the
only course which the country coulel follow with honour and
Justice. He entirely agreed with the sentiments which had
been expressed at Harwich, and at Liverpool and in what-
ever company he found them he should always welcome the
principles of civil and religious liberty all over the world.e—
The Interest of this country, as well as the support of its ho-
- emir and character, demanded that we should not be back-
-went in entering into the contest. Supposing :eosin to' be con.
quered by these principles of interference, where would be the
safety, for Ireland ? This was the last opportunity he
mbetehl have for some time, of being present in ,the
Jiotase, and be was therefore desirous of expressing iris tenth.
merits upon this important subject. In his opinion the mo-
ment the Pyrenees were crossed, this country should consider
owed in a state of hostilities with France. That was the
feciing of the people of this country, and it would every day
ti rising feeling if the contest were once entered into. That
this must be the case sooner or later was certain, when they
looked, at the situation in vihich we stood with Portugal.—
The moment she declared war, she had a claim upon us to as-
slit her. lie was not deterred. from making these observations
by empty benches, because he knew that Gentlenien were per.
running the name duty elsewhere.—(A laugh.)—He rejoiced in
tire netil tribute which was Wing paid by the Nobility and
Gentry of this country to ;die gallant Spanish people. He
did not el-an to inquire what were the steps Government had
Wool ; i.r hoped they were Such as would be worthy of the
tent,: try
li. SUMNER could not hear the tientiments attributed
to this coentry by the lion. Member, without denying that such
were the _opinions of the majority of the people. lie did not ap.
-prove of the conduct of Prance, but on the contrary, held it to be
unjuetidable. Neither wax intone of those who advocated what
were called the rising liberti ee of Spain. Ile feared they would find
their new constitution to beat; little like liberty as any government
r which theycould live. Much less did bethink that this coun-
try ought to go to war upon the ground that France, after over-
terming Spain, would have Ireland in her power. He believed
that krerice had rot the physical means of subduing Spain.
CAlliti no do it under Bonaparte., and he did not believe
tilie could do it new. With regard to Portugal, our treaty, be
coryfitivO, would not hind us to s war in which she may volun.
eerily and unnecessarily engage herself.--(Hear, heat !)—The
Geeeeemere, of this country bad professed, and he conduct had
Mien hitherto censietent with that profession, a strict neutrality.
'nett it sheuld continue that line of conduct was, he was sure,
die almost tinaeimous wish of the country.—(Hear, hear t)
Sir W. DE CRESKONY hoped that Government would
be not in flute to make, war with France upon the grounds sug.
ge, make war when the country esvii by the lion. and Learned Gentleman. Good God! said
is oppressed, sunk down, and
h
ahnest leinkrUpt, in consequence of the-effect.; of war on our
reads, prorrty, and manufactures? Ile should oppose any
thing hoe a hasty Resolution to enter into a new wear, knowing
hew Much we required peace.--The Resolution 0/418 agreed to.
Lord iA, art ERSTON then moved the charge for the Land
Furcca of Great Britain, a auto of 1.,841,0001.
Mr.'IIUME obeerved uoon the edventage of keeping up
ekeieton regimeets. Ile 'thought there were too many ca.