The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-23 00:00:00

POOlt hEIIOVAL ACT.

The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH presented a petition
against the previsions of the Poor Removal Act of last
year.

PUBLIC WORKS (IRELAND).

Lord BROUGHANI was disposed to ask for a return
connected with a circumstance arising out of the pre-
sent distress in Ireland, and the evils of the system
of labour in public works. He well knew that it was
illogical to argue from a use to an abuse, but.
as illustrative of tnis state of things, he would call the
attention of their Lordships to the representations made
by the Rev. Robert Brown on the subject of public works
in that part of Ireland with which he was more intimately
connected. The statement of the Rev. Gentleman was.
that a presentment had been made for 3001. for the pur-
pose of constructing 72 yards of road, not to spoil the road,
but to improve it. But a gentleman—Mr. Flaherty—
came forward and said, that he could get the road done
for two-thirds less than the Government could, and a
survey was made ; the road was given to the contractor
recommended by Mr. Flaherty. The work was exa-
mined when completed, and it was found that only
36 yards had been constructed, thus proving a very dear
work to the country. The contractor, he might inform
their Lordships, was a brother of Mr. Flaherty. The
Reverend Gentleman mentioned the cruel distress
which prevailed among a poor population of 20,000
persons, who were comparatively neglected by the
upper and sustained by their equals of the lower classes.
lie might also inform their Lordships that
he was in possession of much information,
with respect to the pauper immigration into different
parts ofScotland; and the result of inquiries showed
that, in almost every case, these persons had re-
ceived money from the landlords, therelieving officers,
or the priests, for the purpose of taking them out
of Ireland into the sister country. He wished
to suggest to those worthy persons, the relieving officers
of Ireland, that theirs was a dangerous experiment.
for he (Lord Brougham) perfectly remembered whet:
two churchwardens were tried at York for furthering
marriage in another parish, that being held to be a con-
spiracy. The sending paupers into this country was a
parallel case.
The Earl of WICKLOW regretted that any such do-
cument as that which had just been presented should
have come before their Lordships, and that such a state-
ment should have been made, for the authorities ti.
whom reference had been made had no power whatever to
charge the electoral districts: with expense. They had
no power whatever of giving relief in mor:ey, but thos,
who were advocates of what was called the clearin
system gave relief in any shape to any who were read)
to emigrate, without much caring to what part of tle
world they went. If the authornies of Glasgow had to
better plea than the one they had put forward, he feared
that they wind be of but little service. Fes
his own part, he was not at all surprised at
the immigration of Irish paupers into this
country, and he believed that before twelve months
elapsed that it would go on to an extent of which at
present there had been nothing like a parallel. Onl)
let them wait till next harvest, and they would see that
there would be thousands and tens of thousands of
labourers who would hurry into this country. The Ge
comment had introduced a poor-law into the other
Reuse in the hope of stemming the torrent 01
vil, and with a view to relieve this country
from the influx of pauperism from Ireland, hut
he begged to warn their LordThips that no systen.
of poor-law would ever stop that evil, and he
did so in the hops that the wisdom of their Lordship:
would be able to devise some other and better remedy
There was an excellent ground for them to go upon
from two circumstances—first, hom the indisposition o
the landlords to throw their dependents upon others,
and, secondly, from the danger of throwing such a
number of persons like these upon the world. It was
not to be supposed that the able-bodied poor wou!ii
be content to take the sustenance provided a+
the several poor-houses, hut would in thousand!
upon thousands enter this country to find the supper
which was needed by them. He would warn their Lord
ships that this influx would continue until there was a
probability that the poor of this country might become
completely and entirely destitute.
Lord BROUGHAM was quite aware of the difficultie!,
of the case, but if they would look to the las 7
• report of the committee, at page 130, they would
find that Mr. Hughes had stated that he had
found that Dr. Donnovan and Mr. Swington had
applied the funds sent to them for the relief of the des•
tante poor in transmitting the paupers to places in Wale.
to such an extent, that the mayor of Newport had pro-
tested against the practice. It was natural that, it there
was a poor-law in one part of the country, and none in
another, that the poor should go from the latter to the
former.

Lord MONTEAGLE could hardly express his indig-
nation at the course which it seemed had been pursued
by one of bis countrymen, after the lavish munificence
which had been poured out, not only by their Lordships.
but by the very poorest of this land in their behalt.
But he was convinced that the case which the Noble and
Learned Lord had referred to must be a rare and solitary
case ; for no funds were distributed for the relief of the
Irish poor except under the superintendence of public
officers in whom their Lordships had the fullest confi-
dence. These gentlemen had access to the relief com
mittees to inspect their accounts, and the mode in whit}.
the funds were applied, so that anything improper
must come to their ears, and would certainly
be reported to the Government, who would stop
the further supply of money. He must say that,
assuming the facts to be true as they had been repre-
sented, he could not but view the case with the utmost
indignation at such an abuse of tie funds supplied by
the Government.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE apprehended that
it was not ine.y Indb.,..en so rtppiied.
Lord BROUGHAM lelieved it to have been money
sent by privdt, individuals for the relief of the poor.
Lord MONTEAGLE said it came to the same thine
in the end, since rucney so sent was applied under public
superintendence.
The At.tigtos of CLANRICARDE was strongly 0,
opinion that the funds so grossly mit.h3upplied had been
supplied from private resource. But he must say that
if the Noble and Learned Lord would give him
the letter from which he had quoted, he should cer
tainly inquire into the facts of the case. But.
assuming the facts to be es they had been represented.
lie must say that it had been a gross sbuse, and a gross
j practised on the funds supplied by the excessive be-
nevolence of this country.
BANKRUPTCY AND INSOLVENCY BILL.

Lord 1311,OUGHAM rose to move the second reading
of this Bilt. He said, us the subject was familiar
to most of their Lordships, and had the approbation
of the Noble and iLeareed Lord on the Woolsack
and other learned Members of their Lordships' H. use,
he did not find it necessary to enter into any long
statement on that occasion. But he would merely
state his object in moving their Lordships tee
sanction the amendments proposed in the Bill. Their
Lordships would recollect that some years ago he had
introduced a Bill, which had been passed by both Houses
into a law, abolishing imprisonment for small debts.
They were aware that that Bill provided theft persons
apple hensive of arrest, if they chose to appeal to the
Bankruptcy court, give up their property, and stand
their examination, would receive a protecting order
from the Court; and if no hesitation to give up all their
property had appeared, or no contumacy, or no extra-
vagance, a final order was made by the court,
which protected him against further proceedings on
the same debt. He (Lord Brougham), how-
ever, had since sects reason for transferring
this jurisdiction to the Insolvent Commissioners
from the Bankruptcy Commissioners. He
had been urged to do so originally, but he found that
the Bankruptcy Court worked well, and seemed to
have the preference over the other ; for that
Court had more stringent power to execute
the objects for which the court had been erected, and,
therefore, many more applications were made to that
court. But these Commissioners, unusual though it
gas for judges, who commonly enlarged their jurisdie•
tion, had almost exiting: ished their jurisdiction.
The second was a still greater evil than the first. It
' was extremely inconvenient to mix up two diffe-
rent codes of laws, each to be administered by
the seine judge ; and while, to make up the
third evil, the merchants and traders of the
city of London objected altogether to the insolvent Isw
being administered in the Bankruptcy Court. Now,
in addition to 5001., each Commissioner received a
salary of 2 0001. There were six of them; but he did
not teink there would be six long—for, from a return he
held in his hand. he loon f that they diii not work more
t.,gn twenty week, a year with the insolvcs.t
~ltd. when tip :t was token from them
weeks a year. Now, it was too bat
to fifteen or sixteen
by this Bill, the number would be reduced
besides six re is-
of labour, g
SO small qu intiLY
to pay six Commissioners 2,000/. a year each for
each, and official assig-
ntreaeras
aat t
notl,O 0 s a
than)a 2.0001. to 3,000/. a year. r
He proposed,
therefore, that the insolvency business
e
should be taken awes' frem the Court of Bankruptcy,
and then the I:ommil.stoth rs would be reduced from six
to three. It
was r et, he knew, that two Cemmis-
siuners would do. end perhaps roe ali ordinary purposes
these would be sufficient, but every now and then a crisis
in censmercied affairs would arise which would augment
the business. In order to meet any increased business
in the court from this circumstance, he thought
three weelti tljt b :at namber to nrepose.
wee r- Jet; e.
I already substantially abolished, and chat he proposed at it
should be altogether, as he saw no reason why the busi-