The Sun.
London, England, 1841-06-03 00:00:00

,~,.

- ".'

EVZNIIVG EMTIO

.pf the persons haying, the . ss•O i.ii4t. rai•i‘Jli,i meeeures had been brought foresee! -
aeprelien"Sioriwol tl=rte
care .of the.- documents, He was acquainted see, Called, because. they had not received thh assistanes •
with one of those gentlemen, and he could 'of that side of the House ; and as a proof of that
answer for him, that he had no wish to offer any op-. he had jest:sliced the question ef Church•rates. Now
position to an order ef the House. They merely onith
,reopect to that he w•oeld y that if' the Gc-
wished to know by whom, the expense' a, to be paid: hvessonient. had. been. disposed for.eek safete merely,
held that 'when an. tint/ waseld nave ziPstninect t'iN)' . ;
Nevertheless, the House le ict always'
agitating that
orcle- teas made it must Lc complied with withorit hesi- I queson, and if they lied been -di ea eeek the
nation- Hear hy the, 2d Win. IV., ch. 45, it was. good opinion of the Pissenters ther would havesisseie
.provided that all expenses ineraered by the Clerk of the ' all in their power to uphold tliat- for which- tizey
PeaCe should be defrayed V die Treasurer of the county. contended-a principle to which he could nom stacede-,-s-
There could-,be no doubt, therefore, on the subject, and namely, that those. Also were not cenneotedeteitie. the
he could not account for what' had taken place unless Church ought not to contribute to its support. Boaffeving,
there had been some mistake withregard to •iL • • as he did. that the Estaisli:thed Church of t.fel.h•hery
Mr. ALSTON said „that- the
_expense; were ,ttn- existed fur the good of all those Who desired-. seek
doubtedly.to be paid by the county, and consequently piety and virtue, and heliesi.ug that in the scatteredfabhics
the 'Magistrates had no. Choice .in the matter. They of the Church were disseminated principles that directed
were obliged. -to
bl' g.ive •an order upon.: the treasurer heavenward ; with that feeling, therefore, and feeling, as
' .
fur the payment of any expenses which the publication of he did, that. that which was the subject cif national duty
the lists might cause. lie hoped that the House would should be the subject of an honest charge ; he, at the
acsain issue a direct order on the subject, so that the same time, thought that it was just,-. if possible, to
lists might be produced forthwith. place the law upon a broader footing- and foun
Mr. C. WYNN said that it appeared perfectly clear tion, and to remove those stumbling blocks whic
to him, from the words of the Act, that it was the.duty it offered to conecientious minds.-(llear.) That to
of the Clerk of the Parsee, in the first instance, to provide tempt had hitherto failed, but he (Sergeant Talfotird)
for the production of the lists. It was afterwards for took leave to say that in his humble judgment one gene
the county to pay the expenses, and he did not think the runs attempt to level the obstacle to universal brother-
Magistrates could interfere upon that subject. He ap- hood, one generous wish of this discussion would
prehended that the Court of Queen's Bench would issue fructify in the national mind more than A
a mandamus for such payment, if applied to, thousand fierce expressions of revenge or hetred, or a
Sir R SUGDEN said that, according to the provisions thousand acts of coercion, The Right
Non. Baronet then,
of the Act of Parliament, the Sheriff had nothing what- after a little episode, adverted to Nottingham, end with
ever to do with the matter, It was undoubtedly the
.somewhat premature prophecy attacked the Right lion,
duty of the Clerk of the Peace to take care that the lists Baronet the President of the Board of Trade on
should be forthcoming, some supposed taunt or annoyance he was to have
Mr. DUNCOMBE then moved that the Clerk of the received there. He (Sergeant Talfourd), would have,
Peace for the county of Hertford be called to the bar of thought, that , the Right Honourable Baronet's ererly
the House on Monday next unless the register be fur- lessons would have induced him to withhold snch ',Rants
nished to the House in the mean time. and if not that he would have himself reinemberej
Doctor LUSHINGTON said he would not have his own journey from Cumberland to, Pembroke.-
risen if it had not 'been .for an observation which had (Cheers.) The Right Honourable lbseaeronet then ad-
tie-shed a name which he
fallen from his Hon. Friend (Sir E. Sugden) who had verteci to Ireland, and inen
venture to say ' if-.
not expressed himself with his usual perspicuity. •He (Sergeant 'Talfourd wtstuld
(Dr. Lushington) contended that when a return was when the Right 1-10.11OlintlIale Baronet should . (loiter
ordered by that House, if addressed to a public officer, it hpsto
_his triutuphalit course of adminisfroseeleeet
was his bounden duty to make the return instanter" he was breathed through his ear would strike us 7 cold
'had no right to make frivolous excuses. upon hiS heart . a,. • those utteeed lee the , Ave
Sir E. SUGDEN said the Hon: Gentlemen had en- to the Roman Emperor, when he remiodiel him. of his
tioelv misunderstood him. What he had stated was, mortality.. They had'• not feilen he giving a fair,.equal,
to lmlami-they had
that there Ivere provisions in the Act of Parliament and mild adinioistretien q iikstipe
which provided ft~tF_tl}© peymeet, hut that those rows- ow thliell its taint_tig. the pfi,44:- ni. their aggre,,,Ars..
sions did not meet this paencolee case, et tin It :d tilled in cesslegyouring to give the weseie
The motion was then agreed to. .
PeolitrY the eclueli.ty tlf riirlits to which by nature k'me:,. were
Mr, AGLIONBY begged to ask whether it was the entitled, Rod kVltwil every principle of et 4.4-1 dud right
intention of her Majesty's, Ministers to carry through .1
Nricnild have induced them to •siew, &It -oleo,
the House during the peseta Session a n:loa§l'ilia, ire- firm of Government would thtCl iri...ih prethr h The
erecting which there was a great deal of anxiety out of abortive wish and strew tleenee lo dp them justice, tar
doors-he meant the Administration of Justice (No. 1.) the iihterminetine etici hi epnress and crush them
Bill ?
The ATTORNE -GENERA-Ts could assure tit The Inert 41,41, }}avocet sh:ittid have recollected that,
Ye Woo his party supported the Poor-law 2311}, and that he Ifsm-
Member that it was the wish and the intention o the self was linked in sentireent e stir those who had stood
Government to carry the measure through during the by it. The etti.PPo34.lt at- the subject had no doat befht
t. thet inectse from these part v clis ',rein:hens which
Present Session. The delay had arisen from an obstacle reinevesnne
e e.
interpossd by . his Right Hon, Friend, the *Toff thr •.e,slffiln ►ioterfered with the imsiness (7f the country. But
Ripon,. respecting the. fees ef the 442Ceentanti:4erlerll 4(-1 fill, as Ite.(S:vgeant Taliourd) was aware, the Right;
but he hoped to see it pass through the House vein shertiy. Hon. Baronet had outd,e no sutegoetiOn for its linproisa-
' WANT OF CONFIDENCE IN MINISTERS. ment, altlieqlA-4, •Whell the &hate eomuseneed, the Rigid
AD J OURNED DEBATE. Hon; Qeritleerialt had theught fit to tatinethe Government
The Order of the Day for resuming the aellignlTA 'With the metter ef the Poor-law AmetultueutAct. And
debate having been read, . why `i' Merely because it Was a feartel weapon-roereles'
Mr. Sergeant TALFOURD said when the Right Hon, tireeirese it wae asuhject on whieh the rich and the poor litA
Baronet the Member for Pembroke closed his . speech tinhappily b(hel Sq VigAiaSt t"IW.II other awl htee
and the debate on Friday night he felt no small astonish- cause it yva.s k nleasm which applied itstaf '' to,
merit at the indignation conveyed. in it, and the spiritsin those
hest . suithrings he 'Which har-luit,; was,:
which it was expressed against his former colleagues,. sitWeet.--(itestr, hear.) The Right. „-'1,14,e, liaeisaet,
From the first sentence of the speech, in which the said that the intended ameliorations Itteramv st been in-
Right Hon, Baronet tendered his ironical congratulation troduced •, bnt he (Sergeant 'l al looked in vain
to the Noble Lord the Secretary for Irelend that ho was , for. any el:m proposed in the A:, t. by the Right
able to speak with complacency of spine of' the acts of a Hohhoneside Baronet. 1.10 eurnpleined that the subject
Government then In its last extremity-from that me, of
medical relief hail net been tre.ated in the Bill. Now
ment down to its close, where piety came to hia aid, he (Mr. Servant Talfourd) had been for three
and when in the form of a prayer he blessed 'plod that years in eorrespondence with the great medical iristi-
the reign of thelireseet Govereelent was about to termi- salons which were Freed throughout the country,
this suesectt elestaee fled been
nate, through all-his verities of invective he confosaed it upcal h; .
..
'prepared. and were,
appeared to him a specimen of politicel animosity, with- mile pliused cOl tike Votes of the House. I,l'hat mig ht lis
it
out precedent in the annals of. party warfare in that the deelAtie of-the Governuient '.grit yegerel.to diens;
house.-{Loud cheers') Fortunately, however, tilt' was not for him to waieipate, hut he Would v center to
mankind, there was a tendencie in any great say that he had never heard the name of the, Right Host.
hostility to here
itself--lhQ stn Weep a aim was not Baronet addueed.4s a Well wisher of that eause.-eliour.)
always in proportion tp the wish of the marksman, and However, -114 thltuns sometimes be foz wand good
the sting which is animated by the most vile venom often (fines end he trusted, that, after• the pre
debate, he
carried its deadly stroke beyond its destined victim, ense-0,1 have the support of the Right live Geatleman.
-(Hear, hear.) Such happily would be the refit* The Right Hon, poet. then said that :here was One tneasure
of the Right fien, Bartlet'S littaCk win these who which was Al] their own, tool thee wa..; Post,Afice reforea.
slowed with II the eneitettleht and dahger of a scene :which Ike Wished theta jOy Of. Yes, the Post-office was
not less eritical than that they were now passing through. ;111. their own.---(Letid clie It had been tnsirs to
-(Hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman's charge stripped take off the tax upon, the in
or mankind__
of its burning brands, its figures, and phantesiee an its it haci . been theirs
metaphors taken from the gamblingetehle--the co add to the toremunie 'on of
Rightll9nt heart with heart and mind with mind, and it had
give the poor the benefit of one
Gentleman's charge seemed te him te 441011ttc K. this, been theirs, fo that the 'Ministers 110 carried their neitietpal meas of the, 'most valuable contrivances of modern times-
suees with the consent and oeuourrence of their po- rate Night lion. Gentleman might be assured he would.
litical opponents, and that they had not been ablee neither induce the people to reject the boon, nor would he
to carry certain other measures Which they lAA eon- avert the blessing. Thore was one' other .measure to
sidered of importance. The Right ffestissonnleln Ilas
nhich the Right Hon. Baronet haul .mkt alluded, but tca
which he (Sergeant .Talfourd) would refer he meant
ronet had complained of the Nehle LAO the ,seeretary
for Ireland, because he alleged timt tlie Not* Lard had that great measure of legal rethrm, the
ernietWohred to eonfihe the qtteptifip. pp the House solely for the abolition ' off arre.4 for debt. Fornitl7,l4t"
to the consideration. of the ilutulelal part of the question, folln. they were inch•bnel to her Majesty's frato.fill.e-
and the Right Honourable Baronet expressed kits Qesseral, %IA as that Right Honourali.
of : wee wit, present, he \amid saw that whelter h
6ene eY‘
wish to go back to the consideration of
.4g m4tB email
te
e. now re-
former years. lie would admit Voin Nr.CA. rkgY.t of the tired trom hit laborieue', pans• °..s•-i, and insidious
Right Hon. Baronet to A
duties, or remained find °Thee, 'Lie wound ' ,
~0 so. 1M At the sage tithe he
him tkbe cooociousiness, like }'.'is illestrious cit-de
with
(Mr. Sergeant ThlfonlA) most sq AM lie 'wished the
!light Pftropet.would carry his Intrespective view a little , n!srd Awd,,,(4,::,,, and bi , T r
~
i, A.V11‘,11ur.,,:, tile predecessorsC•oaso-
farther haelt-..(Qheer,s),-,tc, those times and transacts ' lattion.
of having In'Ldly and wisely wielded the
whieli he was quite certain the Right Hon. Btu:sestet coos*, viewer of die to
-andthe ' l• e "of his"
,ow ; .
not have forgotten, because he weh attre 4p, thad inclement woo ehown in the verdicts of the Jo
-
never forgiven.---(Loud cheern) lt migkat 4 Yi'ly well ries, and au)
..trannuillity that followeal these fur
-
for many of those Hon, -4411.hetss who thou surrounded diets 1 and he would have the more enduring tfacn
the Right Hop, Berhpet, tet 'Opt heel a fond, a longing, ot nahieg narrowed the limits within which misltirtu;a*e
and ti, iiner.ing look Id the palmy days of Tor. 7 was mixed up with crime, and with having struck
domination, before the Right Honourable Baesseet anothcr blow at the Severity of the criminal rode.
himself had assisted in laying prostrate ow pil- when the lilefit Hon. Bart. adverted to the refieni of the
lire of its strength.--(" Hear,' and oheers,) It was law, les omit ted to advert to the supervision of critAinal sea-
Well for them to consider 4,iamphant majorities. fences in which his Right Hon. Friend had evinced a
necessary to successie,tt was well for them to sigh s'or ' care arid sagac,ity that hail never been surpa.ssed.
a return •of those -high and palmy days Ellen every What were the circumstances in which the country was
measure int. the imposition of a new tea, tio• the laying placed ? There was a great deficiency in the revenue...,
a fresh burden on the energies et the people for the how created was not material to the prc,sent inquiry,-
carrying on a war was Stlrq 4,0 command a triumphant (opposition cheers,) But if he o ere asked he wouht tell
majority-(Cheers-when every attempt to raise a thent—he would tell thee; thot it was not the gruieh of
barrier against their encroachments an the liberties of the last is or two, but ei a long series .iif Tory citin-
the p.ceple seemed only to give them fresh energies for nation. and misrule, \vhtn thc• industry of the country
new 'inroads on popular v,eivileges. But the Right Hon. fee generations yet unborn was taxed, with the vain hope
Baronet, tylm booted that he had been echicated iik :if putting down liberty.-(Continued cheers.) Ile could
the PAPA' ofFox, and was a follower of that great lholl, not understand the doctrine of the Right IlOn. Gentleman
eohld not, surely, wish to revert tessnch times ea thhse.- the Member for Cranbridoe, Who said lie would remedy
(Cheers.) What would ire the feelings of Ar:r. Fox, if the evil by letting thinks alone. That position had no
he could now enter the Umse,, and see sere the Right parallel, 'mines it were in the saving of Sir Abel Handy
Hon. Burouet lira.. 4 seated, by who":, he was ,surrounded,. in the ecoinedy, who, When 'the house wee on fire, aud
and could hear,..thp sontlin'his which he had uttered? , none of his inventions were at hand to quench it, started
Altholigh. het benign lature might not permit him to, 1 up and .said, "I've hit it, Bob ; Perhaps it'll go out by
term the Right'', Hon. Baronet, " a recreant Whig"- I itsele"LL(Lnughi„..) It might be that her en njefAyirti
(Load ell°;rs and laughter)-yet he would look with ' Ainh*-ri had not proposed ehe wisest course, but were
as 7ncli astonishment at the principles to which he had they to affirm his proposition in the dark? Were they
given utterance in his speech, as lie would at the situa- to be prepared to withdraw. confidence from the present
tion he occupied, or the friends by whom he was Government, and to refuse it to the Right Hon. Baronet,
surrounded.-(Loud cheers.) That great statesman without knowing anything more than that. he would give
would have taught him that majorities were not elWays his careful attention to the subject ? The Right Hon.
truth-(Cheers)-that might was not always ' right--
cheers Baronet complainod that. the Government were about to
()- and that it was advisable frequently to bring dissolve Parliament in , a period of excitement... In his
forward good principles, without any immediate hope of (Sergeant Talfourd 's) opinion, that was the proper time.
carrying them into effect.-(Cheers from the Opposition.) The feelings of the people must be awakened and
When the Right Honourable Baronet, in the ,great aroused before they would come to a decision.
struggle 'of 1831 and 1832, lent his assistance Ile contended that the Government were right in the
in laying prostrate the pillars of rottenness and course which they proposed to take-of
app
corruption, it became a great question as to whom the ad-
people, It was not a constitutional doctrine ealing to the
that Mi-
should be eonfided, whether to those ' who had
ministration •of • Mir gloriously-renovated Constitution
nisters should resigo if they had not the confidence of
the House, but that they should resign if they hid not
fought and struggled against the glorious measures, the etnifidence of the . people of England. At: the con-
or to those who had upheld its-e(Hear, hear.
) elusion of his speech the Right hon. Baronet had
Rightly and wisely had, in his opinion, the administra- spoken of the 300 burning brands shnt by Sampson,
Lion of that: great measure been committed, not to its amongst the standing corn. lie (Sergeant Talfourd)
enemies, but to its friends; but in what position did they would restore that simile to its proper owner. The or-
thenn stand ? In the' position which that organic change casion when that simile was first used was the second
natrally produced; desirous by their labours gradually to reading of the Reform Bill, and the charge' was: addressed
extend ale benefits that flowed from it, they were un- by the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) to the Right
able to satisfy their followers, flushed with victory, and Hon. Baronet himself. • 'rho. Hon: and Learned Gentle- .
they were met with distrust from the party opposed to man then read a quotation from the rpeeeli in question...
them. They conld never hope to maintain, after the He would ask the eloquent speaker of those words, wha
first flush of victory, the same impetus which supplied he doubted not had honestly- entertained those fears,:a! _
them with a majc;rity and enabled them to triumph. It then he had aebly expressed theta, whether those fears had
became obvious that party and Governments must look been realised?-(Cheers.) That Ministry had not, as had
for new elements of strength to those who stood between extreme parties to carry out principles liberal in feelin ,been prophesied, died then ; they had lived on for three
and they should necessarily so.form their measure,s as
y 2
presence
Ch rsh-and substantially
gs, years,. blessed b the 4 the Right Hon. Baronet
he iiemiter for 1 em roke-(
to
to be aupported by one section in some
the 'present hour:-
another section in other measures. He 'confessedd saking they had existed p
ii
alone had affirmed the.
that it seemed to him since that time the .duti s ( heers.), A. majority of one,of r
eform. Tit, rerhia.
principle of thts great measure i
and obligations, with the resources of : povver were been ./Ade to
changed.• If that were not so, the conseeuen
thy of one had bees-_,me a ma-
could
that the administration of this-re inept had been dissolshel an appeal had
great ee must the oountry-that major
could never be committed but to • one
the ]and.-{Loud cheers.) The Right
,country ,rrity of l: andthe!ec nil Charter of our-. liberties had
or' two ex- *beCome the oflawhe mc i
treme parties, and if so the Rghht °pourable Hon. litronetrt
Baronet the Member for T
o;id be thrown down bi ~
much amwort , would have .the piers of the Constitution e
quite as .' reason to regret the " f ','' tiber. of T. altr:.orth had said that
as those: who sat on the Ministerial ..d prinlo !It, Had. they'd,
Id be given, to that question h'oulci be
House. The night Ilea bl een so ?-(Cheers.) The noblest an- .
be! certain, if he now succeededthe '
oura e Barsot.neet omf itgh"; tow''p'l'ol‘tsvtliins94:-'te‘4lthe Gentlemen who now surrounded the
not be long before Le ►would have t '
"aeainst the Government.-(Loud
time would ltight.,),Bonniarones and to the vote which he Was now
d o ask the aid. of the , seekihe toiv cariT
present Mightr,V against the
they not justified in presuming that the
Orange supporters, and against demands of his illttl cheers.)
would be as groundless ? And
Cheinist admirers ; and h (M the claims of
. his ,fears,inow expressed
e r. Sergeant Talfourd) why e ,Because the real Conservatism of England was •
trusted that that 'support would be as readily rendered
oat
that whicit
was
ranged around party banners. It --- -
to him as his support was'
vernment, and rendered to the present Cie,. was to he fsernd in the million of British homes ; it
.was
that he would not be so often remeiessied of to be fearnd in the religion of the people, whether Church-
..
it. They had been teunted by: the !light lien. Baronet Vacua or Dissenters; it was to be found in the progress of
with the SupPoit he had given on veral great occes knowledge, which made every Englishnian feel that he • I
in every triumph of freedom.-(Cheers.)
shoos to her "Majestr g Goveasimett. He (She-vela . had a share
Talfourd) admitted that that.-support had been nobly and That Was the true Conserva.tisra, which no crash of party
frankly given,/ but,cst the same time he should say on be- could shake, no convulsion destroy. He did not
half of the tiße-i'AWiefit, they 1.144 A I"feet right to cal- knew wiser might be the. result of that division. He
of titt.that'aid. The Right Honourable Baronet had dill not know what might be the result
.of ra
xeferred to Alie:eanrse Which he took on the privilene appeal to the people ; but he felt assured that wt,en
question, when he Sergeant•Talfourd), an humble
.I)eni- the heats and animosities of he present.' time
ber of . thelflAise,' had had the misfortune to differ both should have passed away-when . the ac'-
from in
from him (Sir Roreel) and from the Gesernment, The. those scenes should have gone to their reposse-when
Right Honourable eßa et, rein drat •On that occasion . even the resentments, of the . Right . Hon. Baronet
he, Cann' to lite sulap.;o4 ,
,of her eini„tho c,,i,,,ern• shoeld, have been stifled-(Loud cheers.)---e hen, with
!,;,. itite . Eight 441iill"fided eTes, they should look back upon the present
nicht. Whio' 44.;At1V; It :was strange to thio
' ' ''' ' for diet. edastimstration of the GOVernment of this country, with
1-Ihn'aehileniati Sbould claim any greoh went . . . . .
.nteeeetedsin to PTIVikTA'S . ilerceptions tinbhnded by party animosities, with feelings
"flait Gentleman WaS deeply- ;
big 'unenvenotned by reeollectioos of blighted friendship and
of that House, and he woolst have been diwow..edin . . . .4
rse he deserted friends--then-they would do justice to
own estimation for eetennseless he had talco! iike, MU ~ . . ,, 1 .
,
did. There wee ene part of the Vight !ton. Baronets those who had proposed these vast measures, am as thew
In
which he had object in proposing them was to advance the happiness
(the Alerr4pe. tor • I?enibroke'eh spear.. .
brought of world, the might safely . e 1 to sterit •as
s4Oted: inset man of the great measures s . . .
' ' - Th they
s'ned ° • 'PP a PG
forward .h - Ow 0 erermuent had been passed their arbiter.---{ e seal Ocrgeant sat down amtdst
• t ; what was • loud cheers,e
by tbw wto distrusted the Governmete
.d v _ #
....o.s,
HT ,
. .
Lat he „'cold regard
' s 2. trODGh s LINDE said the speech of the Item, - ~• . •
that, he would ask, but saying It
the measures `with
distrust, but that he not se .
aria Learned Gent,' '`'man was a proof of the vast impor-
.
the Ministers beestuse they had so often - , ,
, Pea wan tans( attached, -to the speech of the Right Hon. Bareuet.
port
them ? If the Government were --,...
e nerisillt the public by Gent;emen opposite... NV hat he (Mr. H. Hind(*)
good, they must bries•
Terwsrd, -such . measures as feared most in the present Government was, the uneer-
e , .
.
would recei,- ' _.-n
ous parties in the taints that existed as to how far they, intended to go izt
„_-.ae 'Support of the Nap,
~
os- •
• lyinced If T .
f the GoVerninent was what he I the: measures they a+. • • • the Noble Lord wool
rittT If the object 0
theh course which he was': state "so far will I go and no farther" even it the meet
sure to they must new take .
he came into sures introduced by the Noble Lord of
the Right lion. Baronet would take if
were an extrema
ti Ce, namely, to introduce those measures that nature, there would not. he so lunch ground for ;ppm-
Would receive the sanction of the country and both pension ; hut the Noble Lord went far
beyond even his:
sides of the House. But the Right Hon. Baronet had deelarations. Ile (Mr, Hinde) did not accuse the pre-