The Sun.
London, England, 1847-12-08 00:00:00

again interrupted would move the adjournment of the
lirmse.—(Cms of " Oh," " Par, bar." and other
exclamations here became so frequent as to re►:der
the Hon. Member's further remarks wholly inaudible.)
The interruptions c3ntinuing, the Hon. Member
concluded by moving the adjournment of the debate.
—(Cries of " Oh, oh I" " Hear, hear," and " Ad-
journ.")
Mr. J. WALTER—The speech of the Hon. Mem-
ber for Cork, and that of the Hon. Member for Tra-
lee—(Cries of " Order I" and " Adjourn.")
Mr. FAGAN appealed to the Speaker to put the
question of adjournment. The motion having been
made, it was not competent, he apprehended, until it
was decided, to continue the debate.—(Hear, hear.)
The SPEAKER understood that the Hon. Gen-
tleman the Member for Cork having moved that the
debate be adjourned, the lion. Member for Not-
tingham rose to second the motion.—(Cheers.)
Mr. WALTER again rose, but it appearing that
his object was not to second the motion, he was in-
terrupted by
Mr, E. B. ROCIIE, who seconded the motion that
the debate he now adjourned.
The SPEAKER then put the question,
Mr. WALTER, essaying to speak, was met with
cries of " Order, order."

Mr. DISRAELI apprehended that the question
that the debate be adjourned having been put, it was
open to the Hon. Member for Nottingham to speak
to that questicn.
Mr. WALTER said the Hon. Member for Cork
and other Hon. Gentlemen on the same side, had
gratified the House with their opinion as to the qua-
lifications of the Irish people for self-government.
He had always understood that one great and neces-
sary qualification for self-government was business
habits; but, judging from the specimen of business
habits exhibited by some Irish Members during the
present debate, he should say they were as fit for
self-legislation as the blacks.—(Cries of "Oh, oh.")
In fact the blacks had a proverb that, "If nigger were
not nigger, Irishmen would be nigger."—(Laughter.)
Mr. J. O'CONNELL rose to order. He appealed
to the Chair whether it was consistent with order that
this buffooney should go on ?—(Hear, hear.)
The SPEAKER—The Hon. Member for Kil-
kenny is out of order in applying the word " buffoon-
ery" to the observations of any Hon. Member.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL—I bow, Sir, to anything
which may fall from you—l therefore beg to retract
the word which you have decided was not in order,
and which I only uttered under the influence of the
strong feeling excited in my mind at hearing Irish-
men and Irish Members spoken of as they have been
by the Hon. Member opposite.— (Hear, hear.)
Mr. WALTER resumed—The proverb he had
quoted was from an eminent authority—that autho-
rity being Bishop Berkeley, and a distinguished Irish
bishop.—(Hear, hear.) To judge by the speeches
they had heard during that debate one would
imagine that the subjects of Irish grievances and
Irish distress were quite new to the House, and that
Hon. Members could never have heard of the ex-
actions of con-acre or of the system of ejectnients
before—whereas the fact was that there was no one
present who had not heard those questions discussed
hundreds of times. But whatever might be the weight
and importance of those subjects—and that they
were important he did not deny—this was not the
time to bring them under discussion. The House
had met for a different purpose, viz., to protect the
lives of the people of Ireland from systematic assassi-
nation, and were they to be told that they were not
to take measures for preventing murder until they
should have inquired into all the grievances of Ire-
land ?—(Cheers.) What would have been said if,
when it pleased Providence to visit that country with
famine, and assistance was called for to keep the
people from starving, if English Members had replied
—" We will not give a farthing until we have exa-
mined into the cause of the potato rot ?"—(Hear,
hear.) Let those who, when money was the ques-
tion, would admit of no delay, but whose cry was
continually Give ! give ! be consistent now, and allow
Parliament to afford protection to life before entering
into matters which were of a less urgent nature.—
(Cheers ) He concurred with his Hon. Colleague,
that for ordinary crimes ordinary laws were sufficient,
but an organized system of assassination was no ordi-
nary crime.—(Hear, hear.) We must (said the Hon.
Member) deal with the murderer and the assassin as
Dr. Johnson said madmen should be dealt with—
knock them down first and reason with them after-
wards.—(Hear, hear.)
"We must supplant those rough rug-headed kerns ;
Which live life venom, where no venom else,

But only they, hath privilege to live."—(Cheers.)

Mr. E. B. ROCHE observed that the Hon. Gen-
tleman's speech partook very much of the spirit of
those envenomed articles against Ireland which ap-
peared from time to time in a certain daily news-
paper, and which cast vitriol rather than oil upon the
troubled waters of Irish grievances.—(Hear, hear.)
But the Hon. Member's speech, though remarkable
for its smartness, was not to the point, which was,
whether or not the d--!bate should be adjourned.—
(Cheers.) His Hon. Friend the Member for Cork,
who was well acquainted with Ireland, had been
most ungenerously and improperly interrupted in his
address, and unless he was allowed to proceed he
hoped he would press his motion for the adjourn-
ment.—(Hear, hear, and cries of " Go on.")
Mr. (YGORMAN MAHON should in that case
move as an amendment that the Hon. Member for
Cork be called upon to continue his address.—(Loud
laughter.) He felt it due as an Irish Member
to acknowledge the admirable attention and pa-
tience which, up to the present evening, had
been shown to Irish Members generally since the
meeting of Parliament.—(Hear, hear.) It was due
to English Members to acknowledge with gratitude
the spirit of fair play they had hitherto shown to
Irish Members, and he hoped they would continue
their generosity to the lion. Member for Cork for a
if
few moments. They should remember, too, that in-
terruptions often renewed those energies which,
left to themselves, soon exhausted themselves.
Sir G. GREY said the Hon. Member who last
spoke had done but justice to the desire of the House
generally to give a fair and patient hearing to every
Hon. Member so long as he confined himself within
the subject of debate. And until the Hon. Member
for Cork had occupied the House fora very long time
in an address which was interrupted by many very
long pauses, owing, he supposed,
to the Hon. Mem-
her's want of knowledge of the usages of the House,
every attention was paid to him. He had no doubt,
also, that if the Hon. Member would resume his ad-
dress and confine himself within moderate limits, the
House would continue to give hihimits attention.
Mr. it O'CON.NELL thought his Hon. Friend,
who was-not so well acquainted with the usages of
the House as older Members, had not been treated
with the courtesy
he might have expected. The
Hon. Member for Ennis had been so long absent
from the House that he appeared to have forgotten
what had occurred. lie (Mr. O'Connell) had been a
Member sixteen years, and had never witnessed such
an attempt to put down and crush Irish discussions as
inithe present session._(Cries of " Oh, oh.") Were
Irishmen to be hooted down because they did not
choose to lay their country at the feet of English
Members? (Cheers, and " (A.') He repeated,
that in no previous Parliament had he seen so much
intolerance exhibited as in the present.—(Oh, oh.)
He called on his Hon. Friend to persist in his
motion.

Mr. FA AN said that if he had conceived that
any expression he had used had given rise to the
interruption he had experienced he should at once
bow ; but he was not aware he had done so. He
thought it due to his constituents, as well as
to himself, that he should show to' those who
had interrupted him that, though a
new Mem-
ber, he was not to be crushed when he was
endeavouring to put forward, in language not
exhibiting much talent, and in arguments not
exhibiting much conciseness, his reasons why he
to-night, that the Irish people
thought the repeal of the union would be beneficial
both to- England and to Ireland. For himself he
ofrtighehtusnion from the
fedfed nothing, but he grieved much that the case of
his country should have been so treated.. He had
thought.the battle of repeal was to be fought on the
they claimed
floor of the House of Commons, but 1,
he greatly feared
British Parliament. He did not wish, however, to
exhibit any angry feeling,. and with that view he
throughfrom
whath
etht he
leeahg- hadt
esni hc
seen - s on fy
should not persevere in his amendment for an ad-
journment of the debate.
The amendment having by leav© been withdrawn,
at
oo
repeal
en
thosee a l
Mr. F. O'CONNOR said, that a 5 the debate had
already been confined to one side, he really felt that
he had nothing to reply to. With respect to the
strictures which had been made upon his patriotism
I
by the Hon. and Gallant Member for ongford (Ma-
jor Blackall) he regarded them as the idle wind, but
at the same time he must observe, that it was rather
extraordinary that the Non. and Gallant Member
should urge, as his only excuse for not supporting the
present motion, that it had been brought forward by
an Irishman who represented an Eaglish borough.
He had heard in the House, and seen it stated in the
newspapers, that the Hon. and Gallant Member was
one of the newly-pledged repeaters, In,. “ a hence he
thought the course he had pursued to-night was still
more extraordinary. Thanking the House for its
attention, he should now divide the House upon
the motion.
explained He
Major BLACKALL • denied that
he had given any pledge, or that he was fettered in
any way upon this or any other subject.
The House then divided :
For the motion 23
Against it .......
Majority against the motion —232
CRIME AND OUTRAGE (IRELAND) BILL
Sir G. GREY postponed the second leading of
this Bill till this day.