The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-25 00:00:00

BUENOS AYRES.

Lord SANDON said the House was aware of theincon-
venience to which British trade was subjected in conse-
quence of the blockade of Rio Plata. That arose in con-
sequence of the differences subsisting between the repub-
lics of Buenos Ayres and Monte Video. He wished to
know whether there was any truth in the report which
had appeared in the public papers that the difference be
tween the eastern republics was about to be settled by
the amicable interference of France and England.
Lord PALMERSTON said the report to which the
Noble Lord alluded was not correct, as regarded the
steps taken by the French and English Governments, on
the subject of the difference between these two Republics.
Some time ago, about three months since, the British
Government had received a communication from the Go-
vernment of Monte Video requesting the good offices
of England in order to bring about a reconciliation
between that country and Buenos Ayres. To that ap-
plication an answer was immediately returned, stating
that it would be exceedingly agreeable to her Majesty's
Government if they could be able to reconcile the differ-
ences existing between these two countries ; and instruc-
tions were sent to the British Minister at Buenos Ayres
to offer the good offices of England to that Republic ;
and, if they would accept it, he was to take
measures for endeavouring to bring about an
amicable arrangement. He hoped that that confidence
which the Government of Buenos Ayres had shown by
accepting the good offices of England for reconciling the
differences that had broken out between it and France
would influence it on the present occasion, and that the
Government of Buenos Ayres would. accept the media-
tion of Great Britain in putting an end to the contest at
present going on between that republic and Monte Video.

RELATIONS WITH PERSIA.
In answer to some questions from Mr. M'LEAN, that
were quite inaudible,
Lord PALMERSTON said that the state of our
relations with Persia had been pretty nearly ex-
plained by the papers that he had laid before
Parliament some time ago. But since then a dif-
ference had arisen between the two Governments, in con-
sequence of Persia not evacuating the fortress of Gourian,
according to the arrangement with the British Go-
vernment. The British mission was still at Erze-
oum,, and la; gentleman had been sent to Teheran
for the purpose of going to Gourian, and reporting to
the Embassy the actual state of the matter. Some hesi-
tation kad taken place in the Persian Government with
respect to the evacuation of the fortress, founded on an opi-
tion that the British Government were no longer anxious
for its evacuation, on account of some difference
between the official residents. But instructions had been
sept out to our Charge-d'-Affaires, to inform the Govern-
ment that no change whatever had taken place in our
policy, and that the British Government expected the
arrangement would have been carried into effect.
With respect to dm other point, he did not
believe that any intelligence had been received
of a difference between our resident at Teheran and the
Government of Persia, and he had no reason to suppose
that anything of the kind had taken place. What
we demanded of the Persian Government was a complete
apology; that apology we had received, it had been laid
before the House, and we ought to be satisfied with it ;
but the British mission would not return to Teheran
until the fortress was evacuated.

POOR-LAWS.
Capt. POLHLIL asked a qUestion of Lord John Rus-
sell, which was supposed to be when he intended to pro-
ceed with the Poor-law Amendment Bill.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL'S reply being inaudible the
question was repeated by Mr. WALTER, upon which
Lord J. RUSSELL said he would take that oppor-
tunity of correcting an answer that he had given to the
Right Hon. Gentleman opposite with respect to
the case •of Mr. M'Leod. He had told the Right
lion. Gentleman that the . trial would take place in the
Federal Courts, but he had since received information
that it had been removed into the Supreme Courts
by habeas corpus, and would be heard on the 3d of May.
With respect to the Poor Law Amendment Bill, it was
not his intention to proceed with it during the present
session of Parliament.—(Loud cheers and counter-cheers.)
Mr. HODGSON wished to know when the Noble Lord
meant to go on with the Right of Voting Bill:
Sir ROBERT PEEL wished to -know if the Noble
Lord meant to go on with the Bribery Bill.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that it was his intention to
proceed with that Bill, and he hoped that he would have
the support of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir Robert
Peel) when proceeding with that measure.
Sir R. PEEL was understood to say that he would
support the Bill.

SUGAR DUTIES.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EX-
CHEQUER, the House then went into Committee of
Ways and Means, to consider the Annual Sugar Duties
Bill.
Sir R. PEEL, who was very indistinctly heard in the
gallery, was understood to say that the Bill now pro-
posed was in perfect conformity with the resolution
lately carried in the House, namely, " That that House
was not prepared, especially in the present prospect
of a supply of sugar from the British possessions, to
adopt the measure of her Majesty's Government for the
reduction of the duty on foreign sugar, and he (Sir R.
Peel) could have no objection to support the Bill now
proposed. He had not any desire to obstruct the pub-
lic- service or throw any difficulty. in the way of a Bill
of this kind, even if it were not in conformity with his
own opinions and the opinions of the majority of the
House of Commons.—(Opposition cheers.)
Mr. HUME said that the Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir
R. Peel) had read part of the resolution of the Noble Lord
opposite (Lord Sandon), that he was unwilling that any al-
teration should take place in the laws regulating the
importation of sugar. He (Mr. Hume) hoped that the
country would understand that the effect of that resolu-

EVENING EDITION.

tion, which the Right Hon. Gentleman so paraded, was. _
to make every man in the country pay threepence
in the pound for sugar more than he ought to do.
The Noble Lord, the Member for North Lancashire, s
might, if he pleased, publish to the country that the ef- :
fect of alteration of the sugar duties would not be the
centessimal part of a farthing benefit to the pur-
chaser ; but the effect of the continuance of the
present law during the last year had been to make •
every man pay threepence more for sugar than he ought .
to do. The Right Hon. Gentleman seemed to think
there would be a supply of sugar which would keep
down the price. He (Mr. Hume) differed from
him. From every account he had seen, he the ht
there would not be that extra supply, and that, coisiee
quently, the public would continue to be taxed, not for
the sake of the revenue, but for the support of thg mo-
nopoly. The people might see from this, what benefits
they were likely to derive from the measures of thl
Right Honourable Baronet.—(Hear, hear.) There
was not a man who consumed sugar, but would be in-
fluenced by the course pursued. He was surprised
that the Right Hon. Baronet should have prided himself
upon that victory which he had obtained, because it was
a victory obtained not so much against the Ministry is
against the public.—(Hear, hear.) It was a victory
against the people of England. If Honourable Geri- •
tlemen opposite desired the people to be comfortable
and happy they had, at any rate, chosen an extraordi-
nary course for producing that result, when they deter-
mined to maintain the high price of sugar.—(Hear, hear.)
He (Mr. Hume) hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would
recommend all his friends to read the paragraph which he
had read to the House, at the approaching election, that the
country might know that he was determined to keep up •
the monopoly. He could not but express his surpriee
that the Right Honourable Baronet could have read • -
with such humour that resolution which he ha
carried in spite of all the Ministerial forces that could
be mustered.—(Dear, hear.) lie said so undoubtedly,
but it was nothing to the credit of those who carried it.
If he were to judge by their measures, he should say that
they were likely to be against the consumers and the
country.
eoul He hoped, when the
could do
Hon. Members
would
day came that
explain why
m,hayt
they
compelled the poor to pay a high price for so essential
a necessary of life as sugar.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
On Thursday next they should have an opportunit:i
of discussing the question, and he hoped from that •-ass7..
cussion 'the country would be made fully aware she
-.
whole question.—(Cheers.)
.Sir R. PEEL said that this was what he
got by sup
porting her Majesty's Government.—(great laughter.)
With respect to the statement of the Honourable-
Member for Kilkenny, that it would be desir-
able that the resolution of the Noble Lord, the
Member for Liverpool, should be read on every
hustings,
.all he had to say was, that he should cer-
tainly when on the hustings read the speech of the Hon,
Member himself; which was delivered on the Bth Ju1y,1840,;
it was to the following effect :—" Sugar Duties "(Laugh-
ter.) Mr. Hume—l wish to know whether the Right' Hon.
Gentleman, the President of the Board of Trade, is aware
whether it is correct as reported that a quantity of Sugar
the produce of slaye-labour has been imported into this
country paying an enormous differential duty 2—(Cheers.)
If this practice is to be allowed, the attempt of the
House to put a stop to the importation of slave-grown
sugar would be rendered abortive." And then in an-
other part the Hon. Member said, that he had no objec-
tion to the importation of sugar, but he thought, if they
wanted a stock for home consumption they ought to
take that in preference which was the produce of free
labour."—(Great cheering.) It appeared to him, there-
fore, that the opinion of the Hon. Member was clearly
in favour of the sugar duties at they at present existed.
Mr. HUME said that the Right Hon. Baronet should
bear in mind that a motion was made to admit foreign
sugar. The House rejected that motion, but he'
(Mr. Hume) was against the opinion entertained
by the House, and lie told it plainly that such would be
the case, and that the result would be that they •
would admit any kind of sugar.(Hear, hear.)
The Right Hon. Baronet thought he had obtained a
triumph over him, but he was quite mistaken; he had -
merely expressed and argued upon the opinions come to
by the House, not upon his own. He had joined with the
Hon. Member for Wigan in the attempt to obtain the ad-
mission of free labour foreign sugar, merely because he had
before failed to obtain more, and he would tell the House
had that question of his been attended to, the taxation
of the people of England would not have been so much
as it had been by the sum of four millions.
General EVANS understood the resolution moved
by the Right Honourable Baronet to be one for the con-
tinuence of monopoly, and the Right Hon. Baronet
was entitled to the thanks of that House for his candour,
and he was certainly also entitled to tell his constituents
on the hustings that he was not only the seconder before
the Chair, but that he ought to have been its proposer.—
(Immense Tory cheering.) He had an undoubted right . ,
to tell his constituents and the people of England that he, at
at the head of his body of supporters—the confederated s -
monopolists opposite--(Loud cheers and laughter)—that
he and they had determined that the monopoly on sugar
should continue.
•
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the resolution read by
the Right Hon. Baronet was that to which the House
had come to, only entirely leaving out that part of it
relating to humanity.—(Loud cheers.) The Right
Honourable Baronet now admitted that all that
part of it was a mere pretext—(Loud cheers)
—intended to catch votes, and he had succeeded
in catching his Right Hon. Friend the Member for the
Tower Hamlets: By leaving out all that part of the mo-
tion which was now shown to have been intended to
catch the feelings of the humane, and although he had
succeeded in catching his Right %Hon. Friend, he would
tell him that he had totally failed throughout the coun-
try.—(lmmense cheers.) However, the Right Hon.
Baronet, with less than his usual judgment and tact,
had chosen to throw aside the humanity part of the
resolution as a warm garment ; and the House must see
that the proposition before the House was in fact one of
the prohibition of foreign sugars While upon that sub-
ject he could not but advert to a complete misrepresenta-
tion of what fell from him which had gone abroad. It
had been stated that his argument was, that Brazil sugar
could not be brought into this country to be sold under -
Gus., and that at that rate the West India interest would
be no sufferers. But he went further ; he went on to
argue that if the prohibition were continued, and that-if
the Indians failed in raising the quantity calculated upon,
if they should fail in their promises, then the people
would be previously taxed without any hope of remedy,
whereas the propositions of the Government would have
afforded that remedy without any great detriment to the
West Indies. Those who had quoted his speech had
taken the whole of the former and omitted the whole of
the latter part of his argument.(Cheers.) What he
stated was, that if their calculations should turn out to
be erroneous, then there might be a taxation of a penny, -
twopence, or threepence per pound on sugar. Now, in
his opinion, the people of England ought not to be sub-
jected to those monopoly prices. The proposition of the
other side is, that let what will happen, if there was a
good supply, then the people will gain the advantage, bUt
if not, that the West India interest still maintain their
prices and their profits. Their motto appeared tole,
" Let monopoly flourish, if the people perish."—(Loud
cheers, and cries of " Oh, oh.")
Lord STANLEY was exceedingly astonished
that during the eight nights' debate on that question,
the Noble Lord had not thought it necessary to enter
into that explanation before.(Loud cheers.) It ins
to be remembered that the statements of the Noble
Lord were made before the debate began—while the
Noble Lord was opening the plan of the Government,
and not in answer to any arguments or statements
made on that side of the House..
Lord JOHN RUSSELL--The Noble Lord knew full
well that if he (Lord John Russell) had again at-
tempted to speak in that debate—
Lord STANLEY—You did.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—Certainly, to address the
House upon the amendment. And he had considered .
that the misrepresentations of the Noble Lord had been
fully answered by his Right Hon. Friend, the President
of the Board of Trade, and others. At the time he was
proceeding upon statements in a memorial presented to
the House by the Noble Member for Liverpool, upon
which the House was called upon to legislitte.
Mr. WAKLEY—The Right Hon. Baronet (Sir It
Peel) had again taken credit to himself for supporting
her Majesty's Government, and he appeared to think •
that he was not well treated because he did not receive .
a share of gratitude from that side of the House upon a
great variety of occasions ; the Right Hon. Bart. hadsioneg
the same thing, and that made him (Mr. Waklhey) ask
very plain and simple question, which was
the country it would be were the resolutions
next?
_ e
Honourable Baronet carried on Thursday
the
were prepared to pursue the same policy
of what
the ußsieghtot
andof whati
a)pat sas
hdt
e, e
of the
Minis-
rithi
poterssa,ihwleitluiLhwe
would
dleit ehxecfeoprtiothneoefiouintizgoocla
party should sit. on their (the
a very sensible sort of
doors, for after all John Bull was
fellow. If the measures of the Right Hon. Baronet were
House? That question would be asked seriously out of
to be identical, the change would be wholly useless—nay,
most considered that
tcountry.
hey inost serious conflict in
most prejudicial to the
ta
en
He believed
feverish—there never was a 4
public
was
thishey country.
• time when he had greater apprehensions as to the result
were now ow gettinglie ivedn
tohere
never was a time wh
opinion
had not given satisfaction, they
were of their measuresy
•
than at this moment. The Ic'lhieeeprsre.)senTt Ghaotvwernmas
theen wtinaymtahunecyy
were only objectionable because they assumed too much
of a Tory character.
had become so unpopular, and until the last two or three
da
unpopularity was rapidly increasin
opiniong. In his
party soliciting office had already taken ass
which they would d -
false step, one
very short space of time. He hop: and he be-
lieved it; that was his prediction, and a very -
short time would prove its correctness. He
s their hetihre
scarcely knew whether there was or was not
a Radical party in that House.(Laughter.) But if
there was, and that they had a recognized leader, they
would prove of essential service to her Majesty in her
present strait.—(Loud laughter.) He shoitiat hope thee
the leader of that small but intelligent party would 1*
sent for. However, as things stood, there would only be
an exchange between the leading faction of Whig and •
Tory; but he hoped that the good sense of the people of
England would come to the rescue. He had been told
that the late vote was one of confidence or no confidence
in Ministry. He, for one, could not view it in that light--
it was not.fair to put in that light. He supported the
propositions because they were fur a reduction of the
burthens of the people—because he believed they would-
confer on the country an immense amount a
good—not because he had any confidence in the Cairene
ment. It had been said, vote against the propositions
order to turn out the present Ministers; 'but for wha
purpose should they do so if the policy of those who wer
to follow was to be the same? It was said, vote again
them in order to turn out the Poor-law Ministry; bu
where were they to get another who would be Anti--
post-law lie had been delighted to beer 'the
statement ma& by the Noble Lord that he did