The Sun.
London, England, 1824-03-10 00:00:00

which most arise in the settlement of any such general average.
It would not have done to have taken a shorter average, for the
reduction of the value of land for the years 1820, 21, and 22,
would have been a most unjust valuation for the clergy ; the
seven preceding years (from 1814 to 1821) were therefore deem-
ed a fairer space of time, as a medium between the two parties,
leaving it to them every third year -to- take another average,
firanded on the preceding seven. He now wished to propotte
that it should be open to the parties toMakeaerangements for a
composition every seventh, and not every thiral year, and also to
enable those who,pleased to bargain for 21 years instead of 7,-if
they thought proper ; and he wished that the arrangement should
be formed, first, on the price of corn for the previous 7 years, and
second, on the average income of the incumbent during Cie same
period. Ile also wished to propose a modification of the plan of
voting at the vestries, to reduce the scale already fixed, by which
the number of vote= was given according to the amount of tithe
paid by the individual, which in some instances was found to
give too great a preponderance to property. The Ist of Novem-
ber was, according to the bill in force, the time for the new com-
positions to be dated from : lie wished the Ist of May also to
be introduced, to give effect to such bargains as were not com-
pleted in the winter. He also wished, among a number of
minor arrangements, to introduce some alteration in the mode of
collection ; for instance, in the parish of Elphin, where in some
cases the proportion pro rata was only Bd. ; and where 6 or 7
different persons were entitled to shares of the amount. At pre-
sent each was obliged to have a separate collector ; his intention
was, that they should have the power to appoint one collector
for the whole. There were many explanatory details which
could better be given in a future stage of the proceeding; and
he hoped that when they dispassionately considered the whole
sule:rect, they would give satisfaction to the respective interests
involved in the discussion, and confer peace and harmony upon
the country. He concluded by moving for leave to bring in a
Bill to amend the Tithe Composition Act of last session.
Mr. GRATTAN thought the proposition premature ; for,
as yet he was not aware that the existing Bill was really in
force in a single parish in Ireland. He had himself at-
tended
and presided at two meetings, to consider the pro-
visions of the last Bill, with a view to their practical opa-
ration, and he read over the Bill to the vestries, and adjourned
the meetings to give time for consideration ; but when
they re-assembled, nobody seemed to comprehend the nature of
the Act, until the Right Hon. Gentleman's (Mr. Goulburn')
circular letter was issued to explain the 27th (clause; but the
rector, who was present and exercised authority at the meetings,
and the parishioners, after various offers, could not agree. In
one instance the rector was offered 4001. a-year, but he refused
at first, and afterwards came to agree to take 4001. really, if
they nominally agreed to pay 5001., offering to give a security
that he would not enforce the odd 1001.—(A laugh.) —He said
that he tendered the arrangementunder the sanction of the Arch-
bishop.. On the whole, he thought it much better, that before
they stirred a step further, they should have before them official
information respecting the operation of the Bill of last Session.
51r. HUME thought the proposed alteration nugatory. No-
thing would do in Ireland on the subject of tithes, but thee
, breaking up of the whole church establishment there.—( Hear l)
—The established church population was in :hat country in
the proportion of 1 to 14, and therefore 13 had to pay for the
church establishment of one-_a state of things which ought not
to be permitted to continue. 'Why did not Government re-
move this endless cause of irritation, by enabling persons to
purchase up the tithes at once ? Bringing in one Bill after an-
other to patch up the present system, was to heap legislation
after legislation uselessly, and confound what was already too
confused.—( Hear !)
Mr. PEEL said, that until the proposed Bill was brought
in and printed, it was iorposaiblet to say with accuracy what were
or were no: its details; he therefore deprecated fighting shadows,
by arguing in this manner. The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Grat-
tan) had himself given the best reason why the explanatory
amendment should be introduced, for he clearly showed that the
Bill, as it at present existed, was not adequately understood.
Mr. GRATTAN and Mr. liumE severally explained.
Leave was then given to bring is the Bill.
" • IRISH CATHOLICS.

Sir H. PA RNELL said, that since he gave his notice of a
motion, to enable Roman Catholics in Ireland to purchase and
hold lands for charitable and pious purposes, the Lord Chan-
cellor of Ireland had decided that they could already do as the
law stood. He had also found the opinion confirmed by the
Right Honourable Attorney-General for Ireland, who as-
sured him that there was nothing in the law of Ireland to pre-
vent Catholics from holding the same privileges in this respect,
as were enjoyed by Protestants. He should, therefore, not find
it necessary to proceed with the motion of which he had given
notice.

SUPPLY.
The Order of the Day having been read for receiving the
Report of the Committee of Supply, several resolutions were
agfeed to without observation.
Upon a vote for the expellees of the Ordnance Officers,
Mr. HUME asked whether those Officers who were trans-
ferred from the Commissariat to the Ordnance, would continue
to receive their salaries upon the former scale, or to be placed
upon that of the Ordnance.
_ _

Sir H. HARDING' E said that they would retain any allow-
ance for length of service according to the Commissariat rank,
but for any after service in the Ordnance they would be paid
according to the regulations of that department.
Mr. Czt LCRA 1"1' said that as the subject of salaries had been
introduced, lie wished to mention that, according to the Esti-
mates, he found the salary of the Chief Clerk of the Ordnance
much below, in proportion to the labour of the office, all the
other allowances. He found that the Officer he had mentioned,
was receiving less than 10001. a year. Now he knew that when
he belonged to the Ordnance Department he received double
that amount, and he did not think it at all too much.—(A laugh.)
—He found that the whole of his time was occupied by the
duties of his office, and unless those duties were greatly dimi-
niehed, he was very unfairly paid in comparison to o,h,rs.
Without alluding to any particular person, who might hold
the Office, he would say that when a Gentleman of a certain
rank and station in society, gave up the whole of his time to
the public service, he ought to be competently rewarded. He
hoped this subject would meet with the attention of Government.
Mr. Secretary PEEL observed, that the talent with which
the Hon. Gentleman discharged the duties of his office while it
was in his hands, and the disinterestedness with which he had
mentioned the subject, demanded that every attention should
be paid to his suggestion. All he could say at present was
that it should be reserved for the consideration of Government.
Mr. HUIVE said he hoped the increase might be taken from
other salaries which were too high.
Mr. CA LCRA Pf declared his object not to he that of tak-
ing from others, but of seeing the services of this Gentleman,
whoever he might he, duly paid by the country.
The Resolution was then agreed to.
On the vote for the Establishments at Woolwich,
Mr. HUAIE expressed his hope that the Military Academy
would be reduced another year, as it was impossible to find
commissions for the young men when they were educated.
Sir H. HARDINGE said that there had already been a re-
duction in the expence of Masters and Professors to the amount
of 1,5001. Other arrangements had hcen made, by which the
number of pupils who could not obtain commissions would be
greatly lessened.
After a few inaudible remarks from Mr. D. GILBEILT, the
Resolution was carried without Opposition.
When the Resolution for granting 144,000/. for the Ord-
nance Barracks was proposed,
Mr. HOBLIOUSE rose, and renewed the objections which
lie laid down a few nights ago as to the unconstitutional system
of maintaining barracks and a large standing army in time of
peace. The lion. Member argued the question at some length
upon the same grounds as on the former occasion, and con..
eluded by moving a resolution to the following effect, as a
means of recording his opinions :—That it appeared to the
House, that since the conclusion of the war of 11115, 2,500,0001.
had been expended in the Barrack Department, and that the
sum of 136,5311. was proposed for the same expences of the
present year, part of which was to be laid out in the erec-
tion of a permanent barrack upon the site of the King's
Mews at Charing-cross, thereby establishing another mili-
tary establiehnient in the heart of the City and Liberties of
Westminster. That the House could not view without alarm the
increase of a system so utterly at variance with the laws and
usages of the country, as explained by all the writers upon
the Constitution, and particularly by Judge Blackstone, in his
Commentaries upon the Laws of England."—[Here followed
the quotation from Blackstone's opinion relative to soldiers and
standing arinies.l-,The resolution concluded by stating that the
House would not vote a larger sum titan 00,0001. for the ser-
vice of the present year; and it further urged that no barracks
ought to be erected in the midst or vicinity of the inetrcpolis.
Sir H. HAREINGE said, that without touching upon the
constitutional question, lie could defend the use of barracks
upon its necessity. It was well known that many Petitions had
been laid on the table of the House in time of war and peace,
complaining of the system of billeting soldiers, and praying
that the people might be relieved from the grievance. When
the threat of invasion from the opposite coast compelled us to
collect troops on ours, it was found impracticable to continue
that system any longer, and they were necessarily obliged to put
the troops into barracks. Therefore, it was not out of any wish
to oppose constitutional doctrines that the Government adopted
the use of barracks, but it arose out of the necessity of the
case. He had stated upon a former occasion, how much
the Barrack Establishment had been reduced since the war.
With regard to the King's Mews, he did not know officially
that it was intended for a barrack. He certainly thought such