The Sun.
London, England, 1841-03-02 00:00:00

THE SUN: LONDON. TUESDAY, MARCH 2, 1841.

s, Mr. R. GORDON.—The returns from which the'
account is to be made out have net yet been received.
: Sir GEORGE CLERK would, then ask why the
paper for which the Hon. Secretary had himself moved
on the 3d February, a Return of the Debt of the Navy,
had not yet been laid before the House ? He would
frankly admit that in former times but little interest had
been felt in that document, but it was now one of a most
important character, and he • hoped no time would be
lost in laying it upon the table. He did not know
on what ground they were called upon to make up this
deficiency. From the accounts laid on the table, it ap-
peared that on the 7th January there was a sum of
1,537,516/. to the credit of the Admiralty. Now the
Hon. Secretary to the Admiralty was bound to show
why that sum had not been sufficient to cover the navy
expenses that were likely to be incurred. That it
would probably be insufficient he would admit, more
particularly when he considered the large amount of
wages due; bat they ought to have the amount before
diem, in order to enable them to form a judgment on
the subject ; and they ought to have further information
before beim; carted on to vote those sums. He did not
offer any opposition to the large amount of estimates for
the present year, but be only asked to know the lemon
why he was cered upon to vote the deficiencies which
ought to have been provided for list year. He hoped
ey should net see in the Navy Estimates what had
so long been objected to in the Ordnance Estimates, a
large and accumulating sum left unprovided for from
year to year. The House should watch narrowly to
prevent this. They would find that there was a large
amount due for seamen's wages, which would have to
he provided for when the ships came home. Last year
the full amount had been voted, as appeared from the
balance sheet, but that vote must have been absorbed
under some other head, instead of being appropriated to
the pay merit of wages when the ships should come home.
It was clear, therefore; that any surplus that might be
required to pay off the ships, would increase the diffi-
culties of the Admiralty. It might be possible that
theie was some motive to induce the Admiralty to
keep back a portion of the expenditure of the last year ;
there might be some motive operating on the minds of
her Majesty's Ministers which induced them to call
upon the House to vote sums, large though they were,
which would not be adequate for the purpose for which
they were intended ; they had in fact drawn up such esti-
mates as they thought they should be able to carry
without incurring the severe opposition of the Hon.
Member for Kilkenny.—(Hear, hear.) He thought
he bad made out a prima facie case against the Admi-
ralty, of attempting to call upon the House to make
good those deficiencies without further informetion. If
the Government failed in giving a satisfactory apse er
to the Committei', he should move that the two votes to
which he had alluded should be postponed till further
information was given.
Lord J. RUSSELL said, that the Right Hon.
Baronet had so mixed up several questions together as
to render it difficult to grapple with his statements. He
was not going to answer the Hon. Gentleman with re-
gard to those parts of his speech which related to the
mode of keeping the aecoun.s of the navy. His Hon.
Friend the Secretary for the Admiralty, had stated the
grounds upon which he asked for the balance of 29,6941.
as he could add nothing to what his Hon. Friend hai
stated on that subject. The Hon. Gen-
tleman, however, had gone on to speak of
the amount of the balance which they
proposed to take to make up the expenditure, and he
had not been satisfied with taking that amount, but he
had thought proper to discover that the reason why her
Majesty's Ministers had adopted the course they had
done was because they were afraid of the opposition of
the Hon. Member for Kdkenoy. Now with respect to
that supposition the Hon. Gentleman was completely
mistaken ; it certainly was something like the course
adopted by a former Lord " of the Admiralty in 1835,
who had asked for estimates has than was necessary for
the services of the year, but such were not the motives
which actuated her Majesty's present Government. The
Hon. Gentleman bad stated Nee/ truly, that at the time
the estimates were brought forward last sear the Go-
vernment did not ask the whole amount required for
the ships in commission, or d the reason of that was, be-
cause some of the ships were on their return home, and
it might not be necessary to fit out other ships ;that was
the real ease, and not as the Right Hon. Gentleman
had supposed. At that time it was not supposed there
would be a separation among the Great Powers of Eu-
rope, but in July the question was very much altered.
Ia that month her Majesty's Government had agreed
with certain great Powers of Europe to enter into a con-
s cation for the purpose of settling the affairs of the East ;
one of the Great Powers, however, was not a party,
but at the same time it was at first doubtful whether
that Great Power would think it necessary to arm on
account of its being separated from the other Great
Powers. Unfortunately, and before the prorogation of
Par Lament, it appeared that the French Government
were determined to increase their navy, and it therefore
became necessary for her Majesty's Government to
consider whetter they should immediately augment the
forces, or suspend it t li further proceedings were taken.
His impression was—and that impression was generally
shared by the Government—that it at a time when there
was great exasperation in France, whea there was an
undue team; of resentment because this country had
separated-front Fiance upon the Eastern question, and
the utmost violence was displayed both in the press and
generally throughout France in speaking of the conduct
of England—if at such a time they had come down to
propose to Parlament, without 'being certain that it
would be required, a considerable augmentation of force,
they could not have asked for it without stating serious
reasons for so doing, and there might have been urged
against the conduct of Government the hostile language
add the alienated feelings of France. Why, if they
had done so, he did not doubt that they should have
obtained the consent of the House to the necessary
augmentation of force. He did not doubt that the
Hon. Member for Kilkenny, if he had chosen to divide
the House, would base been in a small minority upon
that occasion ; but what he did doubt was, whether if
they had come down with such a case to ask for a con-
siderable augmentation of force, it would not have
tended to increase and influence the exasperation then
prevailing in France, and whether the increase of
armament would not have led to hostilities between
the two countries. For these reasons they did not
propose any increase of force ; and it was not till alter
the prorogation of Parliament, when it clearly appeared
that there was a positive increase taking place in the
French force, and an active equipment of ships going
forward, that her Majesty's Government th ught it ne-
cessary to add to the naval force of this country. The
Hon. Getleman bad said that there was a mistake in
the accounts in reference to the time when the increase
was made. Tae fact was, that the amount of force in
the early part of the year had been so far below the
amount which was voted, that the amount of money
voted for the number of mew kept up in the early part
of the year was sufficient for the payment of the force
kept up in the latter end of the year, and, therefore, as
regards the question of money—it was different as re-
gards the question of men—but as regeids the question
of money, the wages proposed for there three months
was sufficient to pay for the increased augmentation.
He did not pretend to deny that in ordinary cases, and
as a question of general policy, the Government
would not be justified in making such an increase
without the consent of Parliament. He agreed with
tne Hon. Gentleman opposite, who was formerly so
able and convincing in exposing the defects, the negli-
gence, and the irregularity of the Admiralty which
preceded his coming into office, as to the constitutional
rule to be observed in such cases. But the main—the
real question which the Government had to consider
was, how they might best preserve the peace of Eu-
rope. Whether they should; or should not, make them-
selves responsible-for the excess of 161:000/., was quite
a secondary consideration. They wished to prevent
the assembling of seamen on the one side, and the
House of Commons of England on the other, from
entertaining this question iii a spirit which might pos-
sibly have led to hostilities, and in pursuing this object
they had not shrunk from the responsibility of having
to ask Parliament for a suns of money which had not
been regularly voted. Fin (Lord John Russell) was
happy to say that in the main object they had succeed.
. ed.—( Hear.) At that time there remained no diffor-
ence between France and England with respect to
Mehemet Ali.—(Hear, hear.) That question, by the
avowal of all parties, was courtly at an end, and there-
. fore they had the satisfaction of knowing that, although
their course was open to objection, it had enabled
them to avoid a collision with any of the other
Powers of Europe. He would not pretend to
answer the Hon. Gentleman upon the various topics
which he had gone through, and with which long prac-
tice had made him intimately acquainted, but he had
thought it necessary to make these remarks in explana-
tion of the course which had bizdn
that
tsuthe Nobleed. Lord
admitted
mMrt.e lid
theij Alextraordinary said
hew
was
sg
.naturethat
eof
wasthe
warranted
by
The Noble Lord considered
h. elf that
responsibility. He
placed, in taking upon nos
the peculiar circumstances in which the country was
PHouseNoble e Lord
groundson t
eaet
wpohliteith,
hadstated that h
he did se. The Noble Lord •
.by
anddi differed rheed
wouldentire Isyttaftreo from theo
tbe
lity the Government _
means of taking upon b
ad te themselves
ainte
I,tehdi s t rheas p opneset
peace
e-
of Europe. He (Mr. Hume) dhedthatt.healtpogeaeetheeer.f.
when the Noble Lord entered hit) that convention
.o
Enuerocpoen.tenEdeudroptheawtastheiny hpaedrfeddcitesntpulecrace at the 'time
thet er
hlat 15th of July
Th e
;Ftrheenrcehwhaads not
bee the
e increasing
c re least
as sigh
eg :oef: r a dts
fleet-
for many years, but the object of that was to maintain
that position which was consistent with their station
amongst the Powers of Europe. But what did the
Noble Lord say ? He said—he (Mr. H.) supposed the
Noble Lord referred to the Cabinet—they had main-
tained the peace of Europe at an expense of 160,000/.
Why, good God 1 the estimate fer tbe present year was a
million, in consequence of the Noble 'Lord's policy, and
tea millions would not cover the expenses of that 'rash af-
fair. 'The Government had no right to enrol more men
than were voted by the House, without its consent, and
without such grouads as would appear to the country satic-

factory. Was there anything threatening the peace of
England or of her Colonies, or of any part of the British
Empire' ? Nothing whatever. It was, an i,oerrneddling in
the affair of the Turkish Empire, under the plea of main-
taining its integrity. Instead, however, of doing that they
had perpetuated the disturbances and the w esa of that; .
'Empire. He (Mr. Hume) had warned the Noble Lord
again and again in the month of July, and when the veto
for an additional number of seamen was called for he had
objected to it. He knew what the plans of the Noble Lord
were, and he knew his anxiety to intermeddle in the affai-s
of the East, and tii,t if he had got the vote it would enable
him to embroil himself. The House, howeve-, differed
with him (Mr. Hume) and the vote was passed. In Jay
it had come to bis knowledge that the treaty had been
signed, and believing that it would involve the country in
war, he had asked _ the Noble Lord to state if that
were so. The House' would recolleLt his answer. He
could get nothing definite, but it amounted to a deuial.—
(Hear, hear.) He asked if they were sending out troops,
and he was informed that he was mistaken in his informa-
ti ni—a general answer. —( A laugh.) Now, it turned
out that he had been correctly informed. Did the Noble
Lord suppose that his conduct at that time would be other-
wi than offensive to France, and -risk the loss of the
friendship and alliance of that country ? He was
anxious to have the documents before him, because
ho thought they would make out a clear case of
neglect. The real truth was that the Noble Lord
and the Cabinet knew well that they had determined on
hostilities, every dock-yard was full, and muskets and
seamen were sending out to stir up disaffection and rebel-
in the East, and give countenance to the interference
of the British Government. On the 24th of July, when
they hai determined on bos'i Wee, the House should not
have le ea allowed to separate without infirmation on
that subject. The Right Hon. Gerelernan spoke of his
(Mr. H.'s) opposition, but he saw very well it had but
little effect. If Hon. Members on the other side supported
him it might have some effect, but when he received sup.
port from neither, what hope, what chance was there, but
to be laughed at ? He believed the Government were
afraid of meeting the House of Commons, and letting the
public know that the peace of Europe was about to be
disturbed through their interference. Bold as they were,
they were not bold enough to stato their case to the coun-
try at that time. Once Parliament was separated,
what check was there that they might not have earolled
50,000 men more than there were voted ; the principle
was the same, and they actually did enrol 2,545 men more
than were voted. The Noble Lord said they would take
the responsibility, but he (Mr. H.) said, make out the case
first. He wished to see all the correspondence betwt en this
Government and France, and he was satisfied it would fail
to make out their case. The vote now before them was
contrary to the usual prnc:ice of P.rliatirent, are indeed at
the tine no one supposed that such a st^p would be taken
without calling Parliament together. He felt himself jus-
tified, fiend...Pe, in moving that the vote b. postponed until
they had the corresporiderca on the table—if the case w. re
made-out then let the vale be agreed to, and if not, let it be
rejected. Until that was done be hoped that House would
not allow a vote incurred is such a way to pass. They we r.
now called on to support an armed navy of 41,000 (nee;
that was an enormous establishment A few ye; rs aga the
establishment for the navy amounted to 24,000 and 25,000
nne.i, and the utmost number at any time at the period to
which he alluded was 26,000 men, and those est iblish-

meets sere considered very large; what then must He-
nourable Members think of such an armament as 41,000
men ? Honourable Members ouglit not. he insisted, to
support a vote for so enormous an establishment without
some explanation beieg given for its exigence. Parlia-
ment had now sat fie e weeks, and there was he c intended
sufficient time during that period to make such arrange-
ments as would enable tie Noble Lord ( Lord John Rus-
sell) to give the required explanation: He would there-
fore move that the progress of the vote be postponed- until
they should have laid on the t dole of the House the cur
respondence which would enable Hon. Members to judge
how far Government was warranted in the responsibility
which they had taken upon themselves.
Mr. C. WOOD seid that the question he understood
to be before the House was a vote of 29,0001. to make up
the deficiency in the accounts up to the 31st of April 1841.
The Honourable Member for Kilkenny had, he apple.
hended, mistaken the immediate subject under discussion.
Sir J. GRAHAM said it was desirable that they should
keep the vote of 29,000/. perfectly distinct from that of
161,0001. He wished to know why it was thet when the
supplemental estimate was proposed last Session of Par•
liament —when the balance of 29,0001. was ascertained—
thet balance was not brought under the cognizance of the
House—why it was postponed?
Mr. MORE O'FERRALL concurre 1 in what had
fallen from the Hon. Baronet opposite (Sir J. Graham)
as t the necessity of keeping the question of the 29,0001.
separate from that of the 161,0001. With respect to the
observations of the Right Hon. Member for Stamford
(Sir George Clerk) he (Mr. M. O'Ferrall) thought
that the Right Her. Baronet would have been the
last Member in that House to Speak in such a strain.
The Right Honourable Member for Stamford had for-
merly expressed opinions cf quite an opposite ten-
dency, and stated that when there was a pressure e f the
public business, it was next to an impossibility to keep within
the strict limits according to which the estimates hal been
fixed. The Right Hon. Genticman had asked why was
not the proposal regarding this excess made in July last;
he must know perfectly well that that was totally imposs.e.
ble ; he must be aware that the accounts were made up
is the 31st of March, but ni:t closed till Novembel ; the
time intervening being reserved for the rece:pt of the ac-
counts from the Cape cf Good Hope, and the other colo-
nies. Those accounts from the colonies had not been re-
ceived till September 1840, and therefore the
excess could not possibly be laid before the
Parliament in 'July. When the accounts were
closed in November, it was then. for the first gore
that the excess of 29,0001. was learned. The Ibght Hon.
Baronet when in office took far different visors from those
to which he now gave utterance ; but then to some
Honourable Members the difficulties which were so ob-
vious when in office completely vanished from their
view when They were out of office.—( Hear, hear.)
The Hon. Gentleman thee read an extract from a
speech of the Right Hon. Baronet (Sic James Graham)
and proceeded. The experieece of the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet made him viel .t.s his principle within twelve months
afrer he had laid it down under no less than thirteen heads
cf expels: iture.—(Cheers.) He (Mr. M. O'Ferrall)
asked, then, how it was possible to say, in a year like the
lase, any naval accounts should not exceed the amount
voted by 29,0001. ?—( Hear, hear.) With regard to the
sum of 5,000/, in the present balance-sheer, the Right
Hon. Gentleman had omitted to look at the note in the
balance-sheet in his hand, or he would have se m that the
object of the Government could. net have been con-
cealmeet With regard to 42,000/. for Canada, it
was reentioted in the sheet as the sum appropriated
to the ravel expenditure of that country, and if the Right
Hon. Gentleman would look to the balance sheet of last
year he would find it accounted for, under every head of
eependiture ; 15,000/. was on account of service on the
lakes.

Sir JAMES GRAHAM said he was bound to say he
thought the answer of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
M. O'Ft rral I) was sst isfactory. —( Hear, hear.) He ( Sir
J. Graham) certainly did attach g-eat importance to the
fait that when the estimates exceeded the amount voted
P. rli iment should receive a reason for it. To that prin-
ciple he had adhered in 1831, and he still adhered to it.
He adnii.ted that, with the greatest care, it was impossi-
ble to frame the estimates exactly, and so as
they should not be exceeded, but the principle was, that
when this excess oceurrei, Parliament should be informed
of it. He bad forgotten the fact, but after what bad been
stated, was ready to admit that Noce.nber was by himself
considered as the periad at which the accounts should be
made up.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. C. WOOD, quite agreed with all that had fallen
from the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir James Graham), as to
the impossibility of extreme accuracy in framing the esti-
mates. With regard to• the service on the Lakes in the
spill-T. of 1839, when he held the situation now held la) hi;
Right Hoe. Friend, of er the estimates were framed, in
consequence of the dangcraus state of th) frontiers, the
Secretary fur the Colonies had intimated the necessity of
increasing our nasal establishment on the Lakes, and Le
(Mr. C. Wood) had stated that he must move supple.
mental estimates hr the purpose of defraying that expen-
diture, or came to that vote of credit passed in 1838, for
the purpose of defraying the expenditure of the insurrec-
tion in Canada. lle thought the statement of the Hon
Gentleman satisfactoriy accounted for the manner in
which the excess of expetiOiture had arisen.—( Hear.)
Mr. HUME said that he would not oppose the vote,
as the paper in his hands gave a satisfactory account of the
expenditure. —( Hear. )
After a few observations from Sir G. CLERK, the
vote was agreed to.
On the vote being proposed that 61,5001. be granted to
defray the excess of the expenditure above the grant for
the year ending 31st March, 1841,

Sir R. PEE., said that the Not.le Lord opposite had
stated, in justification of this excess, that the state of irri-
t,,ton in which France was at the time, rendered it more
expedient fer the Government to undertake the expente
upnn their own reyousibility than to come to Parliament
for a grant, as the latter traceeding would have tended to
alarm that power, and to endanger our pacific relations.
The Noble Lord had said, however, that the irritation had
sub. ided, and that there was no longer any apprehension
of hostilities being provoked between the two countries.
Now be (Sir R. Peet) wi,,hed to know whether the Noble
Lord was rightly understood to mean that a friendly un-
derstanding was established with France, or merely that
the expulsion of Mehemet Ali from Syr:a had given so
different a character to the Eastern question, that a rup-
ture on that subject was not to be apprehended ?
Lord PALMERSTON said that his Noble Friend re-
ferred at the time to the irritation displayed in the speech
of the person who was et the head of the French Govr.rn.
n-.ent in July 1840, when the transaction under discussion
took place.--.(Hear, bear ) If the Right Hon. Gentle-
man asked what was the present state of our relations with
France, he would c.3rtainly say that he saw nothing con-
! net:zed with the affairs of the East, or likely to ari e out
of them—( Hear, hear)—which would dis.urb the pacific
understanding between the two countries.
Sir H. VERNEY defend.d the vote.
Mr. G OULBURN. said that the vcte involved an im-
portant question as to the conduct of the Government.
The Noble Lord opposite, and the &en tary for the Ad-
miralty, stated that a deficient estimate had been moved
for because a t ti! statement of the case would lead to
unpleasaht cohstquer;ce3, in the irri..ated state of the
FrAich nation at that time. He did not think ti,at was
any justification of their conduct in inuring a small esti-
mate, when they knew that a large expenditure would be
required.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL was understood to say that
at the time the estimates wet° moved, the additional ex-
pi a liture wasu L notß
Mr. GO
n was a complete answer to his (Mr
Goulbures) StatemLaTßntNicipadtiedd not think that the Noble
Lord's explanaii, .
ent. The Noble Lord said that thera
had at the time
a probabili'y of a necessity for in-
creased force,
7et the Gcvernm, IA had only provide]
partially furr
The Government, as it wai,
must have excited the
thaatnpdrutabsiluitsypicion
of
foreign Powers; and,

on dui whole, he did not think they were justified in coming
to the House with an estimate so far short of that which
was required.
Mr. MORE O'FERRALL said that the Gavern-
ment were at first induced to hope that the f,rces they
could command, would be sufficient to enable them to
carry out the objects of the Treaty of July.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said that no one complained
of the proceedings of the Admiralty, when the war
with France was threatening. On that "cession whether
Parliament weresitting or not thcy.would not be-require/
to sacrifice• the interests of the country to strict constitu-
tional rules. In times of danger it was always the duty
of a Government to provide for the great interests of
a State. There was no question about that. But the
questim was—and it was an important -one—supposing it
highly probable that during the recess an increase of
force might be necessary—was it not the duty cif the Go-
vernment to inform Parliament that such an emurgeacy
sa
ly m arisei and to ask for a discretionary au-
thoritys k
ght, for instance, ask far a vote of
li ;1 y
credit, without requiring any particular estimate. He
thought at all events they should have taken some pre •
caution against the precedent they had adopted
being likely to be followed again. The declaratian
of the Noble Lord opposite had gone to show that des-
potic Governments bad some advantage over the constit u-
tior.al States. There was no doubt inconvenience in being
obliged
.t bring the State affairs under the notice of Par-
liament,- and running the risk of publicity. That was an
inconvenience which they should submit to. What he
feared was that the precedent established by the Govern-
ment in 'the present instance might be followed on other
occasions. Towards the close of the list Session our re-
lations with foreign Powers might have he:n dangerously
affected by any call made in Parliament for an augmenta-
tion of the national forces, and it might be the inter, st of
the cauntry net to excite the alarm which such a circum-
stance would create. On the whole, therefore, it was
our should take upon itself the repon-
perhaps advisable that the Government, if pressed by any
textraordinary
innegc necessity, i
forces rather than it should make
a communicaion to Parliament on the subject, thereby
giving rise to discussion and diminishing the probability
..f an amicable adjustment of the difficultica which might
exist.—(Hear, hear.) He would allow that our rata-
ticna with Franco had been of a most delicate
and important nature, and might justify the course which
had been taken. The Government, hawever, in order to
avoid the danger that such a proceeding could be cited as
a precedent bcreafter, might have stated in the Speech
from the Throne that there had been an excess of the na-
tional expenditure, and that they had on their own discre-
tion increased the force of the country. They would thus
base left a record that the case was a special one, and
such as could only be' justifiedam there grounds. Future
Geverninents m'ght not otherwlie-understand the peculiar
difficulties which pressed on the Ministry in the month cf
July last; and he woull venture to say that in all future
ca-es the precedent would be referred to in cases where
perhaps it would not apply, or it would be easy for Ge-
verretr.ents to persuade themselves that in a particular case
they were facilitating an amicable adjustment of a difficult
question by assuming fa themselves a discretionary
power, and not claiming for t...eir proceedings the im-
mediate sanction of Pi,rliament. He thought, there-
fore, 'it was to be regretted—not .that the Go-
wrnment had increased their forces—but that they
did not make some dist net communication to Parliament,
•tating that they bad taken to themselves a discretionary
poser, but that they had done so under special cii corn-
stances, and that the case could not be considered as a
precedent for future irnitaion.

• Lord PALMERSTON said that in the principles laid
down by the Right Hon. Baronet he entirely coacurre 1.
He did not deny the constitutional doctrine stated by the
Right Hun. Barone'. But the question was, whether the
ease was one which properly and justly should make an
exception to the gsueral rule. He thought. far the reasons
stated by his Noble Friend, that they were justified in
adopt ng the course they had taken. What was the state
of things when Parliament was prorogued ? The Treaty
of July had been signed; and at the t.me great irritation,
arising out of complete misapprehension, prevailed in the
min& of the French people. That irritation arose from
this—the French persuaded themselves !hit the alliance of
the Four Powers, which h.id b eu intended simply and
.spselficelly for settlisg the question of the Levant, was
an alianee hostilely directed aga'net France. The French
people said that that was al alliance of the Four Powers
against their country, and the national feeling was tint it
iridi ;toed a determination to take from her territory, or
oiheresise diminish her power. Undoubtedly they might
then have come down to Parliament and stated that cir-
cumstances had arisen which created an angry feeling be-
twesn France and the Four Powers, and that as Parli i-
ment was about to separate for some months there was
no knowing to what results that irritation might kid in
the. interval. They might then, in order to provide for
all emergencies, although this was the immediate danger,
have asked fora vote of credit which would enable thee)
to take such measure at a future period, as the necessities
of the times might require. .They might have done that,
and he could assure the House that the policy of such a
step had been •fully cousidered by the Government, and
it was not without full deliberation that they
had abstained from taking it.—( Hear, hear, hear.)
What might have been the consequence if they had pur-
sued a different course ? Why, the French nation would
have said—the British Government is asking for this vote
on the grounds of an anticipated war, and they are about
t) enter into an alliance against us with the other Powers.
They were, it would be said, askirg for' a vote which
Would enable them to increase their nasal forces, so as to
be prepared to attack those of France.—( Hear, hear.)
They would thus have given great weight to the argu-
ments of those who-endeavoured to create feelings of hos-
tility in the minds of the French people, and they would
have been acting in tbdip- meaner bet calculated to avoid
war, 'which was the qqat object they had In view. They
had, aceordirgly, tatten a different course. But was the
Erg ish Government the only one that had done so ?
The same line of policy was adept .d by the Gsvernments
of the Continent. England would have suffered from a
war as would every Power engaged in it; but unquee-
tionahly its pressure would have been more immediately
felt by the nations of Germany, because a war
by land is attended with greater calamities
than conflicts by sea. Austria and Prussia had
abstained from everything that c .uld lead to misapprehee-
sion of the intentions of the Allied Powers. At a later
period, however, her Majesty's Government hat thought
it necessary to increase our naval Pores, and the Govern-
ments of the Continent hal felt it equally necessary
to take such precautions as would enable them to
resist any attack to which they might be subject.
He should say, therefore, that altheuga he agreed its the
general principles laid down by the Right Hon. Gentle-
mar, he thought that under the circumstances it was the
duty of the Government to incur. t e responsibility they
had done rather than run the risk of disturbing the
peace, which it was their first object to n:aintain,
and which by the course which was then pursued, they
bad fortunaiely succeeded in preserving.
htihrrita ion of the French
they
'these were the
grounds
could justify their
policy.o
people mig'it soon pass away, and that there would be eo
nds on which
had theyhop hoped
dthtohuagt
the
continua:ion of an angry feeling beta eea France and the
ether Governments ot Europe. But on the other hand
they bad felt that if these expectations should be disap•
pointed, and if in the course of the t:cess they should fled
it necessary to augment thsir forces, they need not shrink
from such a responsibility. Re war had taken place they
should have called Parliament tt gather, and submitted the
whole subject to their consieeratieu; but while measures of
peecaution only were to be taken, they had hoped that Par.
liarnent would give them credit for those larger views
which had influenced their policy. In ee.sceading to details
be found that this course was not a very extraordinary one.
In former times, when the financial year began in January,
the Government was obliged to incur expenses for whice
they had not previously received a vote from Parliament,
but in the present instance the Government had come dawn
with this estimate, before the end of the financial year,
to which it was to be applied, and therefore they could
hardly be said to have departed from the letter of the law.
S:r R. PEEL said that the Noble Lord se erred t 3 agree
with him in every respect. He (Sir R. Peel) bad not
said that tho Government ought to have asked tor a vote of
credit last year, as such a vote might have bean open to
soa.e objection. Such a vote might certainly be attended
wi h st nous consequences, inasmuch as it might have led
t)increased suspicion and unsasiness in France. He could
c mceive, that, under the spec:al circumstances of the sig-
nature of the Treaty, assuminc,
e, it was possible that the
Government would be justified in taking upon themselves
a discretionary power of increasing the naval or military
forces of the country, rather than provoke discussion and
irritation by an appeal to Parliament,--but while he ad-
mitted that they might nave been justified in departing
from the usual constitutional mode of proceeding, he
thought they should have made some formal communica-
tion to Perliemeate etetingetheseirCurnstances under which
they had adopted such a course. ( Hear, Lean hear.)
They might, for instance, at the commencement of the Ses-
sion, in the Speech from the Throne (although it keels then
too late to benefit by the suggestion), 'have stated that
events had occurr: d which had induced them to increase
their forces, but that this increase bad been caused by
peculiar eircumstancee, and that they expected Patiia-
merit would sanction their conduct. He had no doubt
that such a course would be approved of by Parliament;
and the case could not then have been quoted as a prece.
dent in future, unless under such very ext.aordinary cir-
cumstances. Ho (Sir IL Peel) did not wish that the
subject should be allowed to pass over unnoticed, lest the
precedent should be hereafter appealed to. He wished to
prevent that as much as possible by the observations be
had been making, and it was on that account he had given
expression to them.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, that the result of the
speech of the Right Hon. Ilaronet was, that they ought
to have advised her Majestyto state the irregularity of the
course they had taken. They should, in the opinion of the
Right lion. Bsronet, have come down to Pa-li ,merit
at
the beginning of the Session. Teis course they might have
taken; but he (Lord John 1208,03) sh,:uld observe, t
in that cite they should only have rceitired a general
opinion on the suteect. He did not say that the course
should not base been taken, but he did net see the advan-
tage that would hive fullowed from it.• He thought it
betier that this question should c me befote the Howe
in a Committee of Supply. He admitted ilia t..e Rigin
Hoc. Geutletnan was entirely right in the general
principles which h stated: He did .not deny that;
and the 'Right Honourable Gmitletnan on the other
hand did not decry that there might he cases where the
e.
departure from that general prieciple might be advisall
He thought that the discussion which had taken Piet: on
both sides would be quite ssfficient to prevent this case
being brought into a precedent. •
Mr. HUME said that as the discussion would not be'
entered on the journals there would be no record against•
this being drawn into a precedent. The Noble Lord ad-
mitted that the necessity for the increase had been occa-
sioned by the policy of the Government. Now, he wanted
to know what that policy was, and contended that it would
be impossible for them to come to a deeisien upon this vol.,
until the Syriac; policy should have been discussed. le
after a discuss ,n of that sort, v‘h'n '4'l the
should have hen laid upon the table, the House should
see right to saaction the policy of the Noble Lord; he

w-uld then offer no fresh opposition to the vote. At pre-
ser,t, however, conceiving that by voting there estimates
ho s:iould be sanct;oning the Syrian policy of the Nob!,
Lora, he would certainly propose', to negative the vote
and divide againA it, if he divided alone. He con-
sPered th,t if the Treaty of July had neve -
11yel signed the peace of Europe would not
ye hen &stxr'oed, and that the Noble Lord, by
sigid• g that treaty, had been the cause of everything that
h occurred. If the Noble 1....t:rd at the end of the last
Session had come down to the House and explained the
grounds on which that treaty had been s'gned, end had
stated that its sole object was the restoration of Syria to
the Porte. and nothing more ; that nothing whatever
hoi he to France was intended, such a declaration made
is the face of the British Parliament would have re-
assured France and calmed her, whereas, by going to
work secretly, he gave France cause to apprehend that
that treaty was the renewal of an alliance hostile to her.
The Noble Lord had resorted to the most unconstitutional
mans to fan the Lines of reheliion in Syria. He could
rot concur in the expense which had been incurred, and he
should Acertainly divide the House against the vote.
The CHANCELLOR of the. EXCHEQUER denied
that the concurring in the vote st all implied an approba-
tion c f the Sy rsa policy. The only practical result of ne-
grriving the vote would be that they would have no money
to go on A laugh.) He could not in that case
pay tlle expenses without breaking the Appropriation Act,
aird the public service Would be put to the greatest possibL
inconvenience. He perfectly agreed that it was only under
very special circumstances that a Government was au-
thorized to spend money without consulting Parliament,
but he conceived that these circumstances had been made
out in the present case.
. _ _

Mr. Gd UL BURN sail that they were all agreed that
this was a que;tron of no trifling importance. He was
much struck with the argument of the Hon. Member fir
K.lkenny, that this discussion would not lead to anything
being recorde I on the Journals so as to prevent this being
drawn into a precedent. He thought he could suggest the
means of obviating the difficulty—it was that the present
vote should be withdrawn, and that in the vote to
be subsequently brought forward, words should be
introduced marking the special circumstances of the case
which had led to the de tart ore horn the usual prattce.
Ti at would form a sufficient record to prevent its being
drawn into a precedent. If words were introduced, stating
that the excess had been occasioned by speci II circum-
stances, which could not have been foreseen at the time of
the frorcgation of Parliament, every object would be an-
swered.—( Hear,hear.) _ _

Captain PEC HELL said the grounds of the objection
raised t) the vote by the lion. Baronet, the Member for
Stt,mford, differed entirely from those asseited by the
last speaker. Ht• shouli certaily support the vote, and
he bought the line of policy pursued reflected the highest
c•edit WI the Go, calmer t.

The CHANCELLOR, of the EXCHEQUER eon-
curt el with the Right Hon. Gentleman in opinion that it
w, old I e :advisable to prevent this being drawn into a pre-
'..ent. Ho thought it would be almost better to it,tro-
duce a special Act c f P.4liament for the purpose. :
Sir R. PEEL thought as it was a special case, it had
better be met by a special Aet.
Mr. HUME—Then Vic vote will be withdrawn.

Mr. C. WOOD approved of tic course suggested.
lie would remind his Hon. Friend the Member for Kil-
ke•iny ihlt so far from the vot, being wNidrawn it mu.:t
be pas:cl to niske it the ground of the Appropriative Act.
Mr. MORE O'FERRALL thought an Appropriative.
Act would be necessary to enable him tokply the money.
Sir GEORGE CLERK apprehended the vote of the
House would be sufficiear.

Mr. HUME said the special circumstaqces on which
tl-.e Syrian policy drpended otg'nt to be discussed first.
He thought it would be better to postpone the voto until
after tht discussion.

Sir R. PEEL thought the v3ting of the money by no
impii:d an approval of Go,eriiment policy. Grant-
ing that policy to be decidedly wrong, still it was tight to
pay the a-my and navy.
Lord FRANCIS EGERTON would go further, and
sly that if the Government policy were wrong, that
n4ht he even a greater reason fir their armament. A
t eve of pre:umption had been made out to
et.l:l‘l,: him ti do what he was always desirous of doing—
su-dr.rt Vie N:vy EstirnateF.

Lord CL A UDE HAMILTON disapproved entirely
of the Syrian policy of the Gov,rnmeut. France was the
protectress, by treity, of the Christians of Syria, and
tber, fo c nut urilly viewed wi:h feelings of alarm any mea-
sure calcul ited to inflict the miseries of wen on Syria. He
should veto wi7h the Hon. Member for Klkenny.
Colonel SIBTHORP rose to address the House, and
immediately of erwards Sir Robert Peel nodded to Sir
Gorge Clerk, and the two Right Hon. Baronets walke I
slowly out of the House, amidst loud laugiter from
the Ministerial benches. When the mirth had somewhat
subsided, the Gallant Colonel said he really could not .sec
what there was to laugh at in his Right Hon. Friend's
-gt jog out to procure some ref esliment.—( Renewed
laughter.) He believed the day was not far distant when
he should see him occupying the plac.! wkch the Noble
Lord now occupied, and acting and doing what th,
N ,ble Lord was incapable of doing—something for the
he,.efit r f the public and country.—(Cheers and laughter.)
The Nook Lord had talked of placing France in a false
position—what, he would ask, had France dote? Why, she
had assumed a position which the Nublu Lord and his
colleagues had been afraid to assume. He should be
happy to support the Hon. Member for Kilkenny, if he
divided the House upon the vote, but he should be gild to
ice all these subjects pieced in the hands of a Select
Committee.

Mr. HUME could not accede to the proposition of
the Chancellor of the Exchequer ai•huut givirg
up the principles with which he had set out.o He.
was sorry to vote against tier Majesty's Government, but
he could not oonsi,tently i•h the opinions he en'ertained
of the policy they had adopted towards Syria support them
in that policy.
S r4nee,s were then ordered to withdraw, and the Corn-
miCee divid d, w en t' ere aprare,i—
Rir the vote
Against it
nijurity in favour of the vote —Bl
Oa our re-admission into the Gallery we foun
Mr. CORRY on his legs, opposing the next vote which
hal been put loon the Chair before our admission jet t the
gallery. He thought her taajo-ty's Govtrament were
gre lily to blame, for the state of the navy in 1839, and
that, throughout, they had been most culpably regard-
less of the proceedings likely to arise front the r
Although the charges which had been made against the
Admiralty had been denied, they had not ueetected to
profi' by them. Dining the last two years five vessels
had been launched, aid eleven were now orlered to be
built, and though her Majesty's Government had net it,-
creased the number of men nominally, they had done so.
vetually, by appointing 900 sueernurneraries Recollect-
ing that three or four thousand of the preeet.force were
employed on the coast of China, and considering the ex-
traordiraey preparations which were made by other
natiom, he almost doubted wtelior the force then pro-
posed to be added was sufficient for the public service.
Lord A. LENNOX wished to take that opportunity of
calling the attention of the House to what he c rusidered
en improper distinction between the privates and non-carn-
rniedoned officers of the Royal Marine Corps, and
those of the troops of the line. If a soldier
of the lice was on foreign service for ten ye
he received a pension fur twenty-five years ser,ice ;
whereas to a marine the same period was only counted as
fifteen years. At Plymouth a marine must serve forty
)(Fars, tilting during that time the most responsible situe-
tien tefore he could obtain a pension. He hoped that
the Admiralty would soon remove the invidious distinctions
which existed between the two services. If no step were
taken towards such a result, he would, after Easter, bring
forward a motion in oreer to take th_t sense of the House
upon the subject.
Captain PECHELL said he regretted the course
which had been pursued by several Hon. Gentlemen oppo-
site; as ne underateod it to be admitted on all sides, that
the navy had now proved its efficiency beyond all dispute.
It had betn stated in the other House of Parliament,
that after twenty-four years of peace, the naval
officers of this ci untry were not equal in efficiency
to those of France, and that even if they were, there
was not that affection aid attachment towards the
Government which would induce them, if called upon, to
engage in action. He was confident that there was no
tame who had any such feeling. The late events had
dearly shown tnat whenever they were called upon to
te.ve their country, their deeds would be such as had ever
distinguished the navy of England. He believed that at
no time was the navy in a more prosperous condition, or
under be t.r discipline. The attention. which had been
bestowed on the naval artillery had greatly increased its
efficiency. Ho had himself differed from the Admiralty
on maily oreadons as to minor details; but the r general
management i.e C.xdially approved. The French, on all
occaetuns when tbcy had been in the presence of Engdsh
step, hal expressed thrir admiration of the skill and abi-
lity of our officers and seamen—( Hear, bear)—and this
set-Ida-lent was not confined te• that nation, but was com-
mon all over the world. It bad been asserted that the
1311 aenia and Howe were sent out to take part in
the naval eng gemeats on the coast of Syria. He main-
tained that the Britannia and Howe had merely been sent
out as raid ships; and he trusted, in conclusion, the
Hon. Gentlemen would be ready to second him when he
came down to the House with a motion fora reward to the
brave men engaged at the siege of Acre.—(Hear, hear.)
Caetain BERKELEY beleved the gunnery of the
Bri!:isa navy was in as great a state of perfection as it
ever had been, but he believed that it was not as regards
the fleet let the Medieeraneav, sufficieetly manned to cope
with a French floe,. It was bit doctrine, that no
.man of war ought to leave the port without her full corn.
piement of men, and if that were done, be had no doubt
they would be found superior to any naval force in the
world.

Mr. W. C EI A PM AN was Llways ready to g ye las
vote in lavaur ut any grants for the effiei,nt equipment of
the t avy„ That navy had done its duty most admirably,
and he ..as gra.ified to say with,ut having had recourse
to impress.. ent fir their equipment. He heli ted th.2re
nev, r was an iostarice in which so large a number f line
ttle ship. WtAC sent out from th,.t country without
g rat recourse to that distressing °sped:eat of taking
IT,- LI truth tie trierehaht Set viVe.—( Hear, hear.) It was
the fist duty of the House to keep up the British navy,
and the vote shr .old therefore have his support.
Laid FRANCIS EGERTON hi d vis ted a French
5h..., Mont.•bello, whet she was I) ing in the Bay of
Soirria, and he helievcd she did not throw a heavier broad-
..id • than the Princess Charlotte. Now ne had ascer.
tined that the number of men in the Montebello was 1,130,
and be left it to the Lords of the Admiralty to say how
many the Princess Ch:irlotte had.--( Hear, hear.) The
C:lntnittce would recollect that at Acre only one broadside
oft he ships hid been er gaged, but suppose they had been en-
gagik.d with an equal number of French ships, how would
the case have been? Where would the Admiral have
bt co ? Most probably where the victory was at Trafalgar,
lying alongside the two heaviest ships of the enemy, and
hr, foiled it would hav, Shvoto 'sure t
n roold do to come off as Briiiin s..i.ors
er o Lad come off, triu On a former ocL
he had alluded to the setvicei which two naval efh,c's,

Slr Howard Douglas and another, had rendered to the
country by their improvements in the gqnnery practice of
the navy ; he had since ascertained that he had dont-
injustice to a third and very able officer, Ca ,t, in George
Smith, who had been equally serviceable in this respect,
and to whose name he was anxious now to do justice.
Captain A'COURT hoped the Government would e
no tme in placing all the navy upon its full complement of
men. The only proof they could have of the efficient
manning of the ships was in the event of a naval engage-
ment.

Mr. C. WOOD did not think that House the best place
for discussing matters of detail connected with the service,
and it had never led to any satisfactory result. They had
last year had Hon. Members impeaching the conduct of
the Admiralty, and it turned out that they were entirely
rcrong ; and now it was said that the present efficient state
of the navy was owing to their attacks. Why, the build-
ing of ships in 1836 could not have been owing to their
attacks in 1838 ; nor could the increase in the number of
meat in Ib3B have arisen from their attacks in 1839. He
would remind the Committee that the principle of placing
the ships on a peace complement, during the time of
peace, had been the principle uniformly acted upon by every
Admiralty, on the ground ;hat the expense was thereby di-
mieished, and that men had net the same work to do in peace
as is time of war. The Noble Lord (G. Lennox) complained
that the marine was not placed on the same footing as the
seaman with regard to the period of obtaining his dis-
charge, because two years' service in barracks was only
counted equal to one year's service at sea, but he must
protest against making these comparisons between the two
branches of the service. The marine received a higher
pension than the soldi r and was sooner ertaled to it, and
as regarded the seaman it would appear from the return be
held in his hand that very few seamen obtained their pen-
sions or discharge before thirty years' service, including, of
course, the various periods when they were paid off and
not in active service, and therefore the marine was not in
a worse position than the seaman in that respect •
Lord GEORGE LENNOX had complained that
there had been seventy-six naval officers promoted at
Acre, and only three marine officers. If there was no
distinction between seamen and marines in other respects,
in the name of God let there be no distinction between
naval and marine officers.--( Hear, hear.) ,He would,
however, shortly give Hon. Members an opportunity of
recording their opinions, by bringing forward a specific
motion or► the subject.

Mr. PLUMPTRE understood the Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. C. Wood) to say that he did not consider that cour,-
try gentlemen, and those living far in-land, nad a light to
express any opinion on the subject of naval affairs, with
which they could not be reaaunatly supposed to be very
intimately aaguaiptee. Now, he (Mr. Piumptre) thought
that use y Oember of that House- ought to enter into
that, or any ether' subject, as much as he possibly could.
Oa ti e efficiert state of the navy at the present period he
would congratulate that House; indeed, the navy was
!laver more efficient than is was at the present time.
Mr. C. WOOD was not aware how anything which
he had said caul I gise rise to what the Hon. Meniter
(Air. Piumptre) had attribute 1 to him. He ( Mr. C.
Wood) neve,- objected to country gentlemen giving their
opinion on naval matters, but what he stated was, that dis-
cussions such as the present were only likely to give rise
to insubordination in the navy, and that gentlemen, not
practically experienced in those matters, were not ac-
qusinted with what number of men, &c., might or might
nut he requi,ite.
Sir C. ADAM said that it had been the fashion in that
House to say that our ships were net in an effective state.
The;e were, perhaps, some few instances in which with
some degree of fairness that charge might have been made,
but one would suppose, that after the experience of the last
few months Hon. Members would no longer hear such as-
sertions made in that House. Let that House and the
country only look to what had been done lately in the Me-
deerranean, and say whtther S r Robert Sropford had not
had sufficient means to carry out his platy,. That Gal-
lant Officer was delighted with the camel-meats of men
furs iahed to him. He had evert written home to state his
satisfaction at the means which had been placed in his
hands to carry on the operattons on the coast of Syria.
The fleet was composed of 17 sail of the line with
1,600 men short of their complement, and he, Sir R.
Stapfard,) had 1,200 or 1,300 supernurreries to fill up
;heir places. From tie statements made at limes by
Honourable Gentlemen in that House, one might
he led to suppose that our ships were more ineffi,ient than
those of former tia.es. Now, be (Sir C. Adam) had got
a return male out of the number of ships under the com-
mand of Lord Nelson at Trafalgar and the Ni.e, the com-
plements of men to each ship, and he found that the fleet
under the command of Lord Nelson had not a greater
complement of men than that at present in the Mediterra-
acaa. With regard to what had been stated by the Noble
Lord behind him (Lord G. Lennox) as to the marines, he
(Sir C. Adam) should say that the marines distinguished
them: elves as much as any other portion of the men en-
gaged in the late operations on the coast of Syria.
With respect to its being said that our forces in the
Mediterranean were not sufficient to cope with
ihe French, he should say that our fleet was more than
able to cope with the French, who put forward every ship
they could supply ; whereas the Bri:ish had 26 line-of-
battie ships in the Mediterranean, and 15 other line-of-
baole ships which, when necessary, they could put into
active service. The navy of this country was in a state
to satisfy any reasonable demands that would be made
upon it.
Sir T. COCKBURN reprobated the departure from
the old system of equipping the navy, which was to have
fewer guns and muse mere

Captain NIAUNSELL was not in the hal:it of support-
ing the Gwvornmeat, but felt it his duty to bear testimony
to their liberality tow_•rds the marine department, aid to
their r..adiness t-) 14t=m to suggestions from that side of
the 1-1, ;11NC.

. ,
After a few words ii explanation, from Capt. Pech,..ll,
Sir G. Cockburn, and Mr. C. Wood,
Mr. HUME said, as nu satisfactory explanation had
bei n given for the vote, lie should move to reduce it from
43,00/ to 35 000/.
Lord PALMERSTON sail it was true the force we
had last year was quite sufficient for the accomplishment
of all our oFerations in Syria, but if other maritime coun-
ties increase] their naval force, it was becoming in Eng-
-1 aid to put hers on a footing of equality with them.—:.
( Hear, bear.) Although there was nothing at present
likely to disturb the peace of Europe, he was sure there
could be no better course to preserve peace than having
our navy in a state of preparation for any contingency.
Mr. HUME said he admitted the success of the opera-
tions in Syria, but it was the arms of the wicked that had
triumphed.—( Cheers.) He thought it would be wise not
to Lercase, but to diminish our force, at present. Nothing
could tend more to bring about a return to relations of
amity with France, than our setting the example of re-
ducing our armaments. He would strongly recommend
the Noble Lcrd to be content with the force which he had
last year, and which was found sufficient to meet all the
emergencies that arose. It would he time enough to in-
crease our forces when a necessity arose for active
hostilities.

The queition was then pu►, and the estima'e was carried,
Mr. Home and another Hon. Member being the only
di.senients.

The next estimate of 1,493,7501., f)r wages of :ea
men and marines, was r greed to after a few words from
Captain P. clieU,

The sum of 782,04 i/. for wages of semen and marines
in ordinary was next vael
The next vote wai for 121,8441., for the salaries of
6tEccri of the Admiralty and dockyards.
Colonel SII3THORP objected to proceeding with
such important votes in so thin a House, and at so late an
hour.

Mr. M. O'FERRALL hoped the lion. and Gallant
Member would not object to proceed now, when there was
only one vote more to he proposed.
After a few words front Sir J. GRAHAM and Mr. 111:MR
the voge was agreed to.
The sum of 2,982/. was then proposed for the salaries
and expenses of the office for the Register of Merchant
Seamen.

Mr. HUME observed that the object for which the re
gii:er was established had not been obtained.
Sir J. GRAHAM said that the Act bad in its rmlts
exceeded his expectations. He had expected only 13,000
apprentices to be regi,t, red in a year, but ti.e fact was that
the number had been upwards of 21,000.
The vote was then agreed to.
The sum of 31,9821. was voted for the salaries of officers,
and the contingent expcn:es of several scientific persons in
the navy.
The sum of 124,5291. was vote] far the salaries of offi-
cers, and fur the contingent exposes of her Majesty's naval
establishment at horns.

The sum of 22,152/ was voted f,r the salaries of officeis
and the contingent expenses cf. her Majesty's naval este-
bailment abroad.

The vote for wages was postponed.
The CHAIRMAN then reported progresr, and ob-
tained leave to sit again on Friday next.
The House having resumed,
On the motion of Mr. UUME, for Mr. Wallace, the
frllowing Returns were ordered : A Return, in columns,
by the Justice of Peace Clerks of the sever al Counties in
Scoland, and by their Deputies and Assistants respec-
tively, of the total amount of Fees levied, and of other
emoluments received by them annually, since the Return
to this House for the years 1833, 1834, and 1835 respec-
tively ; specifying, in detail, the amount of Fees le-
vied under the Small Debt Act, the Barkrupt Act,
on Precognitions, and all other fees or emoluments
wba•ever ; and also, the amount of the annual ex-
penses or charges incurred by these Officers for
Office.rents, Fees, or Salaries to their Deputies or
Assistants ; with the names of these persons, and under
what authority and by whom they were appointed.
Also, the date of appointment of the Justice of Peace
Clerks and their Deputies, the hours of their daily attend.
ar,ce at their office, vita the name of any other public
office they hold, or employment they are engaged in ; and
whether the said Justice of Peace Clerks bola their office
for lire, and on what tcrms they and their Deputies hold
their appointments. This Return to he dated and signed
by the Principal Clerk and his Deputies, if any. Also a
Return, in columns (in continuation of that made in 1833),
of the salary, tees, and all other emoluments paid to or re-
etived annually by Procurators Fiscal to the Justices
of the Peace in each County of Scotland, since last
It ti.rn, and up to the Ist of January, 1841 ; with the
num., place of residence, and date of appointment
of tt e rail Procurators Fiscal; the Return to show the
-urn paid t cli Fi;c,l in each county annually, and also
the sum paid by the county or by fees annually, stating
the amount received under the name of expenses or costs
r.f r•uit, with that chargeable to the county funds respec-
tively, and the total amount of both. Also, the amount of
fines imposed, and of fleas received respectively in each
year by each Procurator Fiscal; the Return to state
whether the Fiseals keep a book or any record of the sen.
tcnces, and a book showing the fines, or, if not, to state
how these are recorded; the Returns to be dated and
signed b 3 each Procurator Fiscal in each county.

On th:, mt,ti,n of Mr. HUME, a return was ordered of
tu, expensi-s incurred by GOV( rumen, is preparing for and
e 4 nduet log the prozecution of Earl Cardigan in the House
(,f Lords; distinguiaing, under separate heads, the