The Sun.
London, England, 1841-02-23 00:00:00

EVEN ING EDITI

Government had been called on to remedy th am `• eet-ieer.a.4;44
time to time Bills had been brought in by succae4a\u,,,e':.fee
torneys-Gencrel, without any intention of passingleapae4d ;ale„....m<eae.2.>
remedy the evils of the Irish registration system, mpg
15.4 hT
year, compelled by the success of the Bill of the -/ecible •
Lord, Ministers had brought in a Bill for that purpose.
That Bill had been accompanied by a Bill for defining the
franchise, but it had been understood that the two subjects
were to be kept distinct and separate, and they ought to
have been kept so. The Bill for defining the franchise
enacted that what ten out cf the twelve Judges bad deter-
mined to be the franchise should be so no longer ; so that it
they amended the ova_ of the registration system the Minis-
ters were determined to have a quid pro quo by enlarging
the franchise, but they concluded the two Bills were to le
kept separate. The Bill of the Noble Lord the Member
for North Lancashire removed the coils of the reghtratiou
system, and its fate was well known, and when that was
withdrawn the Government Bills were withdrawn also.
It wes monstrous in such a Bill that the construction of.
ten of the Judges as to the franchise under tee Reform:
Bill should be deelered to be wrong, and the present Bill
was characeerised by equal want of fairness and nminlinees.
What the public cemplained of was not that the Reform Act
was a bad I rev, but they called for the due administration of
that law. The Government found they must ield to the
call of the people, who would no longer submit to a system
of fraud, and that if they did not introduce some measure
of their own they must rubmit to the Bill of the Noble
Lord. But they had no right to introduce into the Pill
a principle extending the franchise and calculated to re-
peal the Reform 13111, and to demoralize and demo.,
cratize the country. He objected to there being
no appeal to the Judges, to the retaining on the
registry of unqualified persons, and also to the
manner of the appointment of the Irish Registration
Barristers. 'She Bill tended to perpetuate all the evil of
which the public complained. The crying complaint in
Figland, as in Ireland, was, that persons wholly unqua-
lified by their situation in life, by their property, or by their
character got upon the registry, and swamped the legiti-
mate constituency. It would get rid of fraud and perjury.,
by legitimizing tire paupers upon the registry. They must
bare the vacs of the mob, and therefore they place the
paupers on the register. It was said, why not go into
Committee on the Bill ? In answer to that, he would say
because, in the first place, that when the Si. occupation
value was mentioned, irrespective of rent, any man who
knew anything of Ireland must know that ss.
or .sd. might as well be named.— (Hear, hear.)
Ile opposed the principle of the Bill, on the ground that.
the franchise was so low that it showed that Govermuent
did not mean fairly by the country. The provisions of
the Bill could not be corrected in Committee, because it
‘hions of the Bill, it was true, would endanger the eon.
was entirely irrespective of rent and outgoings. The pro-
stituency of Ireland. Indeed it would do so with a ven-
geance, for its provisions were little short of Universal
Suffrage. He admitted that the Bill contained some good
provisions, with respect to the amendment. of the machinerat
of registration, but its defects far outbalanced its good gum"
Ltiee as it would in fact enfranchise a host of pauper!..
Ile (Mr. Litton) would be satisfied with taking the rates
under the Peer-law as the criterion cf the franchise, peso
vided he could be sure it was fairly taken. The Bill, leas'
in effect a repeal of the Reform Bill, and it would have
been more manly en the part of her Majesty's Ministers to.
have brought it forward as such. He asserted that the Go—
vernment had brought up this 5/. franchise for the pur-
pose of increasing agitation, and he would venture to say'
this, that no man in her Majesty's Government had any
supposition that this 5L franchise would eve r pass the
House of Commons. lie trusted that the House would
beware of political impostors, and of a Government that .
would sanction agitation. For these reasons he should .
oppose the second reading of the Bill.
Mr. FITZPATRICK supported the Bill.
Mr. LUCAS said he was anxious to take an early
portunity of deliverieg his opinions upon the Bill wl ,a,At
was before the House, the mere so because he had ' 0„,
referred to several times, in connection with that o' eke_
The Noble Lord, the Secretary for the Colonies, h Aot at_
luded to hire a few nights back, and reproached the. /,,-oa4.
Lord, the Member for North Lancashire, for not: adept...
• in hi • pre.eet Bill a suggestion which he (Mr. Lucas)
ing
had mode on a former occasion. The Noble Lord had .
stated, upon the authority of the " Mirror of Parliie. •
ment," that he ( Mr. Lucas) had expressed' an opinion
that there should be alteration in the ba is upon which the
elective franchise was made to rest, and had then pre
ceeded to deduce from his words arguments which tle-
were never intended to furnish, and did not in real Ay
supply. He (Mr. Lucas) had stated that he wished • aa,st,
the franchise should be based upon some fo, tin
independeet of the oath of the claimant. His whl 's
was
made. ascertain the value of the land, fur which the cla'
an, was
; his sole.
made. But though he desired a substitute for the oath of
eel a Bill with
the claimant ho did not desire to gm any further
object was to prove the value of the land by a indifferent
person. The Hon. Member then referred
which he bad been connected, and to some, corm- ondeoce
t; Jr
subject of vele-
on the subject, for the purpose of shawl An.
what'Pwere the
d be 8/. above' 4".
precise views he entertained. Upon t
ton opinion had been that it shed&
ol.rth Lancashire li-ad so
,efure the House.
rent. With respect to the
Nt
the defects of that mea-
he
difficult for any person who
Noble Lord the Member for
hunted out all the faults ratea
remarks without going ovcr-
sere, as to make it extremely
ineen occupied by the Noble Lord.
should follow him to offer aan'y
the same ground as had.
There was cne taolat, hoecver, on which he
wouldi
shortly detain the lieuse. They had often been told that;
the electors of Ireland were too few in proportion to thee
population. The argument which was used, was, in hie;
opinion, based upon totally false grounds. He bad never
conceived that it was the object of the Legislature to irr - part the franchise to a number of people, simply becate so
they did not possess it. The first consideration. appeared
to Lim to be this, how were those who were tee be sent to
Parliament to be most safely, most soundly, end most in.
dependently elected ?_( Hear, hear.) There would remit in
a question after that, whether thee would be most sufely
elected by a small number or a t erge one; but the abs tract
proposition, that because Ireland contained a greet population and a small
nu7.nber of electors, the fran chiso
should be extended, 'Fes a proposition from whit's he
(rocs Lucas) ate,
from an lion. ea, entirely dissent. They had heard
rantlernan in that House that the neumber
of electors •,vas extremely small, and that it was decreasing in consmattenee of the unwillingness to grant leases.
That was a startling fact. Without wearying the 'House
with tiny lengthed details, he would shortly refer to the
document which he held in his hand. With re-
ference to the number of electors, he would state
one fact, with which he was himself conversant.
In ;a county with which he was intimately concerned, its
1834, there were 2,400 ; now they amounted to 4,000,
notwithstanding many of the leases bad fallen in since
that year. Was that any proof of the niggardliness of
the franchise, so loudly condemned on the other side?
He only wanted a fair state of the representation, and he
wished to see it, not by lowering the franchise, but by the
increased independence and education of the elector. As
the present Bill was based upon a principle whioh he had
always opposed, he never gave a vote with mr,re pleasure
than he would in favour of the amendment enoved by the
Noble Lord below him.

Lord MORPETH then rose, but was, for a few mo-
ments, inaudible, in consequence of *Members hurry-
ing to their places. He said, the Noblra, Lord had made
many personal charges against the Government with which
he had the honour to be connected, He accused them
for the policy which they had pursued relative to the re-
gistration law in Ireland. He accused them of unsettling
men's
minds by a ccnstant meddling with the elective frail-
' Ilse, but in filet particular they had still some lessons to
take from the Noble Lord.—(Loud cheers.) He accused
the Government, to which he had the honour to belong,
as being, guilty of stirring the cauldron until it boiled
over, but on that occasion his was the hand that had
added the most potent and busy element of mise
chief.—( Hear, hear, cheers, and laughter.) Tho Noble,
Lord constantly spoke of the proposition contained in the
Bill with respect to the settlement of the qualification
for the elective franchise being a mere tack or addition
to the Bill. Now if it were not allowed to form part of
the text, it was, at all events, their preface, for he consi-
dered that it constituted the only Ivape of bringing the
whole question to a satisfactory, conclusion—(Loud
cheers)-_ to a satisfactory conclusion and final settlement;
for without any settlement of the electoral quaiification
leaving it as it at present a ood—he conceived they would
be offering a mere delusion and mockery to the public.—
( Loud chesrs.) The Nobiie Lord had frequently said that
it was not until ho had carried his Bill to a second reading
in the last Session of Parliament that they bad ever heard.
of a definition of tloe franchise.
Lurd STANLEY-_I did not say so.
Lord NIORPETH had taken down the words of the
Noble Lord at the time they were uttered, and he distinctly
said it was not until after he successfully
f
lic.iiu.n(Cries of " Oh,
heard c
one word res.
Yarried his Bill
to a second reading that they
ii
petting any definition of the
oh," and cheers.) He was as f'confident that the Noble Lord
had used these words as that he then stood. before the
House. Now, what were the facts? Why, it was note.-
Bills rictus that in all the which had been introduced
under the sanction of the Governmentof late years, the
definition of the franchise formed_ a substantive part, and
without that formed part of the legislation they were not
prepared
at ail to legislate on the subject.—( Cheer, ) So
far mere tack
or o
far from considering that part of the Bill as
postscript last year, head h given it Iris moat
cordial- approbation, and had most willingly in-
corporated (it in the measure he then proposed.
The Noble Lord asked the Government, and that was re-
peated by the Hon. Member for Coleraine, why they had
not come forward in a manly way and proposed some un-
ambiguous measure for all parts of the empire ? Ile
(Lord Morpeth) did not feel himself called upon then to
enter into any discussion respecting the Scotch and the
English franchlse—the subject before them was quite
enough.—(Laughter and cheers.) Tho abuses cf the
system of registration in Scotland were acknowledged, yet
the Noble Lord had strictly confined himself to the sup-
posed ebuses existing in Irelansl—(Cheers)—laaving taro
system as it existed in Scotland and England with all their
imperfections on their heads. It was in Licked, and Ire-
-1 sod alone, that all this ambiguity met them—it was in
that country alone where the registration laws were per-
plexing and embittering every grade of society. The
Noble Lord said they were about to give to Ireland a
qualification which we: unknown to any other part of tht
empire. But it was to be remembered, that in England.
tl.ey enjoyed the 40:. franchise—that was a franchise atil4
enjoyed in England, and which was once enjoyed in lre-
land, He did not believe that there was one Member of
the Liberal party—he did not believe that there was any
partisan of the Liberals, who would not willingly accept of
the English or the Scotch system of registration, in lieu
of the measure then under consideration,. By such
an offer the Noble Lord would be considered a much bet-
ter Irishman—a more promising disciple of the movement.
--(Loud laughter.) The Noble Lord Lai omitted from
his consideration the great preponderance of freeholders
in Ireland—leaseholders had very little importance in the
constituent body in that country. The measure of 1829,
with which the estate of the Right Hon. Baronet was so
honourably eentiected, disf, auchised no less than 191,000
40s. freeholders in Ireland ; 6,000 201. fceeliolders ; 1,800
501., and 303 100/. freeholders. Was not that wholesale
disfranchisement? The Noble Lord quoted some expres-