The Sun.
London, England, 1847-03-30 00:00:00

EMIGRATION.

Sir JOHN WALSH said he had observed that; the
Colonial Emigration Commissioners had publishedin t heir
" Colonisation Circular" several extracts from the agents
resident in the colonies, and that all the reports concurred
in representing that there was a very large and in-
creased demand for labour springing up in all the co
lonics. He, thet efore, wished to know whether the Hon.
Gentleman the Under-Secretary for the Colonies would
have any objection to lay on the table of the House the
whole of the reports from which the extracts
had been collected, and whether there were any
other reports or correspondence with the colonial
authorities which might throw additional light upon
this matter ?

Mr. HAWES said the reports from Canada, from
which extracts had been made, had been printed in ex-
tense, and placed on the table of the House. With re-
gard to other reports from Australia and other crdoc.ies,
the extracts which had been made contained all dial
was valuable. There was nothing more in them hearing
upon the subject. They would, therefore, be of no
value if produced in extenso. There was, however, no
objection at all to produce them. The lion. Baronet
was correct in stating that a demand for labour had
sprung up.
SECONDARY PUNISHMENTS.

Mr. HUME wished to ask the Hon. Gentleman a
question with reference to a subject which had been
greatly discussed in that House—namely, secondary
punishments. He understood that a committee of the
Council of New South Wales had collected a
vast deal of evidence on the subject, and had made a
report. He wished to know whether there would be
any objection to prodia,e the report and the evi.'ence—
the evidence especially, as he believed the report went
far to modify the opinions entertained with respect to
transportation ?
Mr. HAWES said that no official information had
been yet receivetl of the proceedings of that committee
at the Colonial-office.
PROTEATANT CHURCH AT JERUSALEM.

Lord PALMERSI2O \, in en.•-wer to an lion. Mem-
ber, sal that th: s'.! had thane of the coon y
vete.' by the late Government ter the butlding t,f This
church. had embarked in a Tear, extensive plan than had
been at first propos, d, and the consequence was that
they had spent all the money which had been voted, and
a coesiderable sum in addition. The propriety of giving
an additienat sum fur the erection of the church was
under the consideration of the Government.
POOR LAW—WESTMINSTER.
Sir DE LACY EVAYS wished to ask the Right Eton.
Gentleman the Secretary for the Home Department if
the proceedings of the Poor•law Cemmissionere with
regard to the poor-law guardians of St. James's, West
rninster, had received the sanction of the Home-office ?
Sir G. GREY said that he believed that the Poor-law
Commiesioners had no direct sanction, but they had ob-
tained the opinion of the Law Officers of the Crown.
and they had, no doubt. communicated the substance of
it to the different boards cf guardians, pointing out what
they considered to be the legal construction of the Act.
RELIEF WORKS (IRELAND).
On the order of the day tor resuming the Committee
on the Irish Poor Relief Bill being read,
Mr. W. S. O'BRIEN desired to draw the attention of
the Government to the dismissal of labourers from the
public works in Ireland. It had been intimated in
the Right Hon. Gentlemen the Secretary for Ireland's
letter, that this dismissal should not take place until
other measures should have been adopted, such as the
temporary relief Bill. It appeared, however, that in
various parts of Ireland the labourer had been dis-
missed before any such arrangement had taken place.
He had received a letter from a Protestant clergyman
in the county which he had the honour to represent,
which stated that, not only had the engineers, but :the
labourers, been dismissed from the public works, the
consequence of which would be most fatal. He
wished to know, were the Government prepared
to lay down any definitive principle upon which they
could act. As to the original proposition, no one could
complain of i:; but he would press this matter on the
attention of the Right Honourable Gentleman. The
dismissal of so large a number of the people without
providing subsistence of any description, was nothing
less than consigning those so dismissed to starvation.
Mr. LABOUCIIERE said that the statement he had
made on a former occasion was that the rule which the
Government had laid down for itself was, that it being
expedient and proper to decrease the number of people
Employed up,'" the public works—on a certain day the
number of persons employed upon those works in Ireland
should be reduced by 20 per cent. on the aggregate
amount. They had left to the Board of Works in
Ireland a discretion as to whether they should in
each particular instunce strike off 20 per cent. of the
persons employed in the districts. The Board of Works
had, in order to meet the views of the Government,
struck off only 12 per cent. in many districts, and had
increased the eismissale in others. He held in his hand
a letter from Captain O'Brien, which stated that though
a great many parsons had been struck off from the pub-
lic works, et the decrease of 20 per cent. had 'mot been
enforced upon all districts. lie was satisfied that,
considering the difficulty of so great a change,
the reduction had been carried into effect in
a most satielactory manner, and without disturbance,
xcept in one or two instances. The reduction had been
the more easily effected in a partial mariner, as there
were many persons upon these public works who ought
never to hose! been placed there at all. The result of
the reduction would be a beneficial effect upon
the condition and cultivation of the country.
There was another point referred to by the Hon.
Member. It was, that in many cases the parries cm-
pluyed wtre suddenly discharged Item the public works,
giving them no time to obtain assistance frorn the electoral
Diviiion Committees. With reference to this he would
call their attention to a I. tier which had been received
frees Colonel Jones, the chairman of the board of public
werks, from which he would read at: • :tract. (The Right
Hon. Gentleman read the extract, which was to the
effect that sufficient time had been afforded to
the parties discharged to find employment under
the new arrangements of the electoral divi-
sion committees.) The object which the Governmen,
had in view was to effect the Change in a manner as
little calculated as possible to interfere with the em-
ployment of the people. The Hon. Member had also
stated that no means were afforded for the finishing
of publiC works that were necessary to he
completed. He (Mr. Laboucliete) begged leave to state
that this was tot the case. It was arranged -that any
works that now required completion should not be pro-
ceeded with without tee concurrence of the Treasury.
The only difference was that any presentments made for
the finishing of public works, insteed of being referred
to the Lord Lieutenant for confirmation, should be sent,
over to the Secretary for tke Houle Department for his.
approval.
Sir A. BROOKE wished to know whether it was the
intention of the electoral division committees to sus-
pend the public works altogether ? If so, then
he would urge on the Government the expediency
of waking, some arrangement, by which in June or July
unemployed might again be put to labour on public
thev,,o
r k
s.That was the most critical time of the year, when
the landed proprietors could not employ the people. and
therefore eonsething should be done to meet the difficulty
He also wished to know whether it was the intention or
the Government to establish soup kitchens in all the.
electoral divisions throughout Ireland? He took the
liberty of suggesting the establishment of soup kitchens,
because he believed that they were both economical and
adva,nt..g+ ous. t himself had keet three or Can in active
operatiuu dueling the winter, besides giving the people
in his locality rice.—(Rear.) But in the remote districts

it was almost impossible to get places fur them, and to
obtain t.e supervision of resp:icfable farmers. Ile recom-
mended the distribution in such localities of meal and rice,
as he had found that lib. of rice and I.llb. of meat mai:e
13ifs. or 141 us. of good nutritious for) .—far superior to
abuut." the, therefore, to ,k the liberty of re ow-
tu, tiding tha Government to consider, in carrying out
their plans lot affording relief, whether it would nut
be adnitssible distribute meal and rice, in certain
proporti,..i.s, accordity,' to the wants and nutnbers of tt,o
Ninnies. lie asked these questions, acid made these
r.commendations, because he wished to:know the in-
tentions of the Government before .he proceeded to
Ireland.

Mr. LABOUCHERE replied that it was the inten-
tion of the tiovernment, as soon as the Relief Act came
tnto operation, to reduce the number of persons em-
ployed on the public works as speedily as possible.
%V ail respect to his recommendation with regsrd
to the distribution of meal and rice, he could
unly sly that the dispensation of relief had been
puc in the hands of the Relief Commissioners, and that
is nature would vary according to circumstance,—.1e
believed that it would be admiti,l under the most jaw.-
c:ous turatigements. As the lion. Gentleman was
going to hehula, he recommended hizu to favour the
i'oor Iteliet C.iwznissioliers with a visit,us they would Le
happy to avali th,tudves of 11is uxperience.—(liar.)
INSURICECTION IN CATALONIA.

On reams g the order ut the day,
Mr. BOli, 11l iv ICK call. d the attention of the Secre •
Lary of S ate tor Foreign Affairs to a proclamation Isaac d
by General 131eton in Catalonia, and dated the 4th day of
Ma: eh, I z)-17, and moved for copies or extracts of any cur-
espontlence which limy have taken place between the Go-
vernments of Grt at liritain and Spain upon that and other
similar measures. lhe lion. Gentleman then read the
articles ut war which had beer' declared. Amongst others,
they start d that the whole family of any adult who formed
the rebel army should be subject to death, upon proof
that they were instrumental in advising or en-
couraging to the commission of the offence. Un-
der the regulations of these articles of war the mo-
ther of General Cabrera was shot because her son had
left, t!ie university, and she was unable to state whither
ne had gone. rhe perpetrator of that unmanly action
had been promoted, As Queen Isabella was unfortu-
nately an ally of this country, he could only ask the
Noble Lard to remonstrate, so as to prevent the
recurrence of such barbaritio. The only thing
that kept them from being perpetrated even now
was the tUrbearance of the people of Spain.
(The Hon. XL:Luber read a circular addressed by the
Count de Montemolin- to his adherents in
Spain, instructing them
„not to make reprisals,
Out to oppose the enemies. of Spain by
steady discipline, order, and conciliatory conduct.)
This was dated the 10th Mareb, 1847, and
exhibited the spirit by which that Prince was actuated.
He could not ask the Noble Lord to interfere in Spa-
nish politics, but he wished to bring under his notice
the fact that the best blood of Spain had been shed in
order to establish a Government which was degrading that
country in the eyes of Europe, and disgracing the name
of woman. He did not allude to the unhappy Princess,
who was but the victim of a bad system, but he alluded
to her ill-intentioned advisers. On this head he thought
it was his duty to call on the Noble Lord to say that the
tide of barbarity should be turned,—that hitherto it had
come, but it should be allowed to proceed no further.
He knew the orders of the House debarred him from
referring to other matters equallS, important, but he wee
contented to rest upon the statement he had made. He
could not read any more extracts with respect to the
Conde de Montemulin, but he could not help referring to
the proclamation of his father, when he signed his me-
morable abdication!, in which he stated he would not
wild the government of Spain until she was untram-
melh-d by the machinations of others. Fourteen years'
experience had found that the utmost unhappiness had
attended the reigns of the Sovereigns of Spain, and
that no new Minister had proved an exception to his
predecessor in misgovernment. Thus Europe had been
startled from time to time, and Spain impoverished and
demoralized. It he referred to the speeches which he
had made in former Parliaments, he might show that
his predictions had fallen far short of what had
actually taken place. The question he wished to ask the
Right lion. Gentleman was whether any remonstrance
had been wade to the G •vernment of Spain, and whether
there would be any objection to lay the correspondence
on the table of the House.

Lord PALMEItSTON said that the ans. er he
had to give the lion. Member was that he
had no official information with regard to
the subject which the Hon. Gentleman had brought
under the c Plisideratiou of the House. The first inter-
mation he had of the c,reutnstances was from certain
extracts which had been sent to him by the honourable
Gentleman, and of course no steps had been taken by
her Majesty's Government. If the lion. Member wished
to know the sentiments of her Majesty's Government
with regard to that proclamation, he had only to
say that any lion. Member in the House had
only to consult his own breast to know the feelings of
disapprobation, disgust, and indignation which those
occurrences had inspired. Colonel Breton, he
should add, was no longer in the office he was when
that proclamation .as issued. He also wished to
say that the object of the l3ritiah Government always
was to impress upon the Spanish Government the neces-
sity of acting upon humane and not barbarous principles.
He wished to state that these atrocities had not beef.
ceunnitted, as had been represented by the lion. M+ tuber
entirely upot the side of the Q,aetfe troops ; in point
of tact, they had be n equally committed on both
sides. lle regretted to see in the proclamation issued
by the Prince r. ference made to ranks and armies.
and fields t.) battle. Words which, if they uieaat any-
thing, meant that it was his intention again to make
Spain the ilie.itre of a civil war. lie should
he very sorry if stem were the ease; but
he would say, that judging by the conduct of
the Prince, ever since he came prominently before
the public eye, that Spain were again to be made the
see' a of civil war, such a course would not be pursued
either with his apprebatien or his sanction. He trusted,
then, that those who had influence with the Prince would
persuade him to restrain his followers.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir DE LACY EVANS said that he conld only
regret that the Honourable Member did not evince equal
anxiety when his own fellow-subjects were affected.
He arrived in Spain after the Elliott Convention had
been framed, and he continued to serve there fur the
period of his engagement ; and with regard to
the obsertstions which had been ter,itle, that
both sides were equally criminal, he could
state, of his own knowledge, that not one gene
ral officer who was serving in co-operation with
him had attempted to violate that convention, but had
been most anxious to keep it inviolate. He knew that
the men were liable to atrocities from the enemy, but he so
guarded his lines that during two years he had never
lost even a sergeant's detachment. Occasionally while fall-
ing back in columns, or in a state of inebriation, the men
were literally kidnapped, and were barbarously mur-
dered on the authority of those officers who were now
erecting the standard of the Conde de Montemolin in
Spain. He had on one occasion taken 1,000 men and 100
officers, all of whom he had the right to put to death in
retaliation for the murders already committed, but he
did not do so, and the men and officers wrote
to Don Carlos, deprecating the cruelties to which
they:had before been parties, aid employed him to
take measures for putting a stop to them.—(Hear.)
Now in this he had his vindication and satisfaction for
the conduct he had pursued.—(Hear) But what was
the consequence after this ? When he had left Spain a
number of the soldiers who had served under him again
enlisted in the Spanish army, and some time after one
hundred of them were taken prisoners in a church and
put to death.
Lord J. MANNERS said the Hon. Member had
taken great credit to himself for not putting 1,000 sol-
diers and 100 officers, whom lie had taken prisoners, to
death ; but in reference to that he would remark that
the soldiers of Don Carlos had to resist an unjust inva-
sion by parties who had no legittrcate right or interest
whatever in the country. He would turn from the
speech of the Hon. and Gallant Member to the speech of
the Noble Lord—a spech which in tone and temper he
trusted would, oa all future occasions on this subject, be
imitated by him. He further trusted that what had
fallen from the Noble Lord would induce every officer
in Spain to act on principles more in consonance with
humanity and legitimate warfare than the proclamation.
of Colonel Breton, referred to by the Hon. Member fur
Evesham.

Sir DE LACY EVANS wished to ask the Isle.
Lord whether it was right that proclamations should be
issued from tnis country like the one referred to by the
lion. Member for Evesham by an ineividual receiving
the hospitality of this country?—(Hear, bear.)
Mr. P. I;thiTHWICK thought he had in the course
of his ohiervatious guarded himself against any possible
allusion to the events of the late civil war in Spain. He
had certainly not limed the Hon. and Gallant General
opposite. He had certainly never said one word in
reference to him, though; the Noble Lord (Lord Palmer-
ston) had made some reference to it. What be meant to
say was, that his observations had reference to the
present state of Spain, and not with respect to war
against that country. The proclamation did not
denounce war, but it called upon the friends of the Conde
dcLoMrdnielm);lLinMl4Eoßt St(')FmOuNke—i-Intily answer to the question
levied against them. —(Order, ordtreir)isals when
war was
of the Ron. and Gallant Member, I beg to say that it
would be a great abuse of the hospitality which this
country affOrds to every foreigner of any class or rank,
who chose to reside here, that they should issue procla
mations of any kin( tending to incite war and disturb-
ance between friendly states.—(Cheers.)
LANDLORD AND TENANTS BILL.
In reply to a question from Mr. P. SCROPE,
Lord J. RUSSELL stated that the Government in-
tended to introduce a Bill on this subject ; but if they
should not be enabled to introduce the Bill immediately
after Easter, it would be well if the Hon. Gentleman
would proceed with his Bill.—(Hear.)
MORTALITY IN IRELAND.

Lord GEORGE BENTINCK was desirous to re-
Slime the inviry he made a few days ago with respect
to the mortality in Ireland. He wished to ask the Chief
Secretary
whether any serious or energetic effort would
be made to tvcertain the number of deaths this year as
compared with other years ? He was now about to
produce an authority which he was sure the House
would not call in question, as to the practicability of
procuring such a return. It would be in the recollec-
tion tY the House, that when he first mooted this ques-
tion, he was told, in reply, that a registry of deaths
was only kept by the Protestant clergy, and that it
would be impossible" to obtain from them the deaths of
those belonging to the \Roman Catholic persuasion.
Now, he had received a letter from the brother of the
bead of the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland—(Mr.
Sheil—" Who? who?")—the brother of the Archbishop
of "Tam—(Cries "He is not the head of the
Catholic Church." " Ile is not the head of
the Catholic Church," -. from Mr. Shell) —iu