The Sun.
London, England, 1841-04-03 00:00:00

MORNING EDITION

1111.•••
rnittee, in which so much good feeling had existed, bad he
attempted to do anything contrary to their wishes or
without their orders; therefore he cconlsloidne.reNdieimt
ha,prehcaud.
Early fortunate. circumstance that th
made the motion, and he sincerely thanked him for it, in_
asmuch as it gave him an opportunity of making a state-
rrient which he hoped the House would allow, especially
after the observations which had been made upon the pro.
ceedingi of the Committee. He was sorry to trouble the
House, but he trusted after what bad taken place they would
grant him their indulgence. Ho had stated, after
the conclusion of the proceedings in the Ludlow case, and
he then repeated it, that in Election Committees not only
the character of the Commines, but the character of the
House itseir was deeply concerned.—(Cheers.) They
neere greatly indebted to the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R.
Pees) for the change which he had made, and, as one of
those whom the Committee of Selection bad chosen to
act as Chairman, he had thought it his duty to do all in
hie power to aid in carrying its provisions into effect—and,
however heavy those duties might be, he took them upon
himself most willingly.—(Cheers.) Great as was the
responsibility of the other Members of the Committee, that
of the Chairman woe much greater—they were selected
by a Committee, and the:r service was compulsory—those
of the Chairman were in a manner voluntary. With re-
gard to the St. Alban's case there were circumstances in
it which gave it a greater degree of importance than it
would have enjoyed but for them. With respect to what
had fallen from the lion. Member for Finsbury, he con-
fessed that it was with great pain he hal hoard the para-
graph from the newspaper cheered by Hoe. Gentlemen
opposite when it said there was a majority of Mini terialists
on the Committee.—(Cheers.) He had heard with very
great regret the expreasions of feeling with which Hon.
Members on the other side cf the House had received such
an intimation from a party paper; it had been received in
such a way as he (Mr. Sanford), if placed in their posi-
tion, would net have indulged in. Perhaps, with regard
to the details of the evidence that hal been brought be-
fore the House generally in the papers, it would not
be necessary for him to refer to them ; and here he would
make a remark in passing that, if the evidence before
their Censmitteea were daily published in the papers—he
had no objeciion to it—it might be right or wrong, and
his own impression was that it ought to be publi-bed, but
at least all observations on the evidence and the conduct
of the Committee, ought to be abstained from. He thought
no expression of „pinion should be given as to toe decision
of the Commi tee while the inquiry was in progress. At
its close, and when the Committee hail given its decision,
then their conduct was fairly before the House and the
putlic, but during the progress of the Committee any ob-
servation would only provoke party feeling. He would
not refer to the evidence, but merely to that which more
immediately referred to the Committee—he meant the
decision to which they had come. During the whole in-
vestigation there had been but two decisions on matters of
fact. Upon the evidence produced before them, they had
to form en opinion first whether a certain individual was
the agent of the sitting Member. On that occasion the
decision of the Committee was far from being minist trial
or anti-miaisterial, they having divided on the question
five to two—( Hear, hear)—against the question being put,
because they did not consider the agency had been proved.
The other decision was at a later period of the insestig,a-
tion, and that he was bound to state was four to three,
but when the evidence was produced, Hon. Gentleman
would see whether those in the majority hail fair reason
to suppose that no additional proof of evidence had been
given. Then vi hat did the Committee do? and he would
call the attention of the House to one very material fact.
So anxious were the Committee to have that matter in-
vmt:gated, so little desirous to throw obstacles in the way
of its investigation, that they came to a resolution, that if
Counsel for the petition stated to the Committee that they
should be enablei to prove the agency by acts of bribery,
they would be permitted to go into the acts of bribery,
although the agency had not been proved. That resolu-
tion was come to before any decision was made. Tne re-
solutions agreed to by firmer Election Committees for
th it own guidance, on points that might be discussed,
had teen referred to, and it appeared that they had came
to the resolution, that first of all the agency should be es-
Vlblishei, but that, if the Counsel fax the petition stated
that he wag unable, except by bribery, to prove
the agency, that ho would be permitted to pro-
ceed with the proof of those acts of bribe-3,, in
order to estab ish the agency. Theo resolution was
adopted by the Committee over which he (Mr Sanford
presided. In what way could Gentlemen placed in the
situation in which the Members of that Commidee were,
appear more desirous of comirg to a fair decision, and of
esucideting everything relating to the matter ? With re-
gard to other questioe3, they we e of law, such as whether
such and such interrogations were admissible. Those oh-
jections were taken on every occasion. There was hardly
a question put which was not objected to. There were
opinions advanced on subjects of which the Committee, as
mere laymen, could know nothing. limy bad two very
able lawyers to deal with, who attempted by every means
to confuse and mislead.—(Hear, tear, and laughter. )
On every occasion when the room was cleared they felt
how unfortunate it was that they had no authority to
go by. They were called on to give decisions, and
whether they gave them right or wrong they could only
go according to the Lest of their opinion. He must say,
ii, justice to the Hon. Gentlemen who composed the Com-
mittee, he never saw men more anxious t o do their
duty. With regard to the observations made by the Hon.
Member for Finsbury, he (Me. S.) must say that it was
with astonishment the Committee received the intima-
tion that the investigation was brought to a close.
He hoped the House would see, that, during the latter
part of the investigation, every facility woe given to the
petitioners'. On the last occasion the Committee had de-
cided, by five to two, that the question could not be put,
and then Counsel stated that, in consequence of the Com-
rnittee's first decision, they hael determined not to pro-
ceed further with the case. Now, this first decision took
place three days before.—( Cheers.) The Committee had
been pressed to admit the evidence ; they bad been
pressed to admit proof of agency by bribery, and, after
they had consented to the latter, they even Agreed, at the
request of Counsel, to allow the petitioners to strengthen
the evidence of agency by acts of bribery ; yet, notwith-
standmg this, it was thrown upon them, that, in conse
quence of their decision, the proceedings were stopped.—
( Chet rs. ) He could only say the allegations against the
Committee were most untrue, and he was glad that an
opportunity was afforded him of meeting them in his
place. He trusted what he had said would be deemed, in
some degree, to have exonerated the Committee from
therm —( Cheers.) He would now beg leave to make one
other; observation. lie was much afraid, that, as Com-
mittees were now constituted, great difficulty would be
found in carrying on the business of Election Committees.
The Committee ought to have some authority, as an
assessor, to whom they could refer upon any questions of
law--( Hear, hear)—or otherwise the House ought to
come t r an express resolution for the guidance of Elec-
tion Committees, whether they should be bound by the
strict legal rules of evidence, or give a greater latitude to
their consti uction of the facts brought before them.— •
(Hear, hear.) If something like this were not done, he
was certsia !hat those tribunals would not give siati,f se-
ti on and the character; cf Gentlerrea who were desirous
of honestly d)ing their duty would constantly be da-
maged, and their feelirgs outraged, by unmerited impu-
ted .no --(Cheese.) The Hon. Gentleman thanked the
House for tie attentive hearing he had receive d, arid sat
down amidat cheering.
Mr. NHL DMA Y said he never rose to address the
Hone with grea .Tr pair. He defended the conduct of
the Committee. The evidence was of a very contradictory
native, and furnis red the Committee with no g rounds for
a special Rerort. Ile thought the Heuse had sometimes
very rig:,tiy shown a disposition to encourage special
Reports; and they were seldom received with unqualified
satisfaction, Lowerer well grounded. He remernh, red he
had himself sat upon an Election Committee which had
reported that they hal reason to think that there had
beery bribery at an eye .tion ; but the consequence wile,
that trey were censured by various Members cf the
House
for having mode such a Report, while the
charge could not aff ct sitting. Member.' He
did not wish to pursuei a similar course a se-
cond time, merceiseesip,edeial y when he found that the
evidence in the
been taken down. He yiel led
to no man in a desire to put
.ain end to that system of
bribery which, be believed, perreivha,ei eißhin many boroughs in
the country ; but then the
,rte
etoihnil
petitioners
be a, phuancii schheadr g
eb
dy
legal mates. He found that theh
Lord Li towels with bribery, but t
agency had
couldd b e
11 not be
gust tined, unless the qua anon
previ-
ously established. So anxious, hewevery,
tey
he
ed
agency
he
ct
th were
the C`mil-
mate, ter a lair aid full inquiry, that
thought was rot strictly allowed legal—they
be proved theough bribery. For his part,,,yliparetatFess.neyvnteoer
more anxious to do his duty between a
knew, in the first place, that he had reason to distrust his
own bias; and, without meaning any offence, be certainly
thought it could not be denied that they were all liable to
a feeling of party interest. But there was another rea-
son why he felt that if he had erred in judgment, he was
not much to blame. He had had mstters brought before
him of a nature that he had never had before. For him-
seif, lie could assure the House that he had endeavoured
to perform his duty.—( Heir, hear.) Much had been said
against him, but he was too old a seldice to mind it. But
when hi; motives were impugned, he felt bound to pro-
tect himself. He was not actuated in the Committee by
any leeliegs as a Ministerialist, for he would as soon have
Oven Mr. Cavan a seat in that House as Lord Listowel!.
He conscientiously believed he had performed his duty and,
h feared not the consequences.
Mr. CLIVE, as the late Chairman of the Canterbury
Committee could not allow the subject to pass without
sasiog a few words. From what had fallen from the
lion. Member far Finsbury, it might be thought there was
some connection between the two Committees—that, he
could assure the House, was not the case. When, the
Members of the Canterbury Committee went into the
Committee-room, tddy
went
Counsel
eilehreeinot whath they
were to hear. On the
Com-
mittee explained to them the courseng they called
had in,
laidt dow,
to be pursued. Immediately that statement had been
made, the Counsel got up and stated that they met
the previous night, and they had determined thata the
wisest course to be pursued was not to
entail great expellee
without coming to any conclusion, the Couneal therefore
begged leave to withdraw, and upon that ground idene the
Committee had come to the decision they had done He
bad the honour of sitting upon a Committee last year,
iu
v hich the decision was made by a majority of 6 to, I.
Those Hon. Gentlemen with whom he had had the honour
of being associated in Election Committees had shown
the greatest anxiety to perform their duty ; and be
trusted that the House would give them credit for their
endeavours.
Mr. ELLIOT said, that although a Member of the
Committee, he had not read any of the statements which
had appeared on this subject. However desirous be
might be for his own sake that the evidence should be
printed, he felt himself called upon to lay before the House
the exact nature of the evidence, in order that the Heuse
might be enabled to judge whether it was prob er that it
should be published. The Committee proceeded, in the
first puce, to take direct evidence of agency. That fail-
ing they had, as had been
Allegationsstated, endeavoured to prove
agency through bribery.
brought against two ind' • of bribery were
cluds-wthero were but two per.