The Sun.
London, England, 1847-05-15 00:00:00

GROUP XVIII.

The Committee met this morning at twelve o'clock—the
Earl of Lincoln in the chair—when

Mr. TALBOT replied on behalf of the Great Western Corn•
pany, and, after clearing away all the erroneous suppositions,
that he or his clients intend any the slightest disrespect to
the inhabitants of Cheltenham, proceeded to say that he be-
lieved that they were fully entitled to have all their com-
plaints freely end thoroughly investigated. The view which
he bad always taken was that a priori, most astounding,
that, in this happy country, which had been the parent of
such eminent engineering skill, there should be found such a
case of difficulty in Cheltenham, that men like Mr. Brunel,
who possessed not only a European but an Asiatic reputa-
tion, were unable to grapple with it. As an Englishman, he
must say that it would to him be a matter of affliction if
any such insurmountable obstacle could exist. Here there
had been not only the talents of Mr. Brunel, but of Mr.
Cubit Sir J. Rennie, Mr. Simpson, 'and Mr. Hawkshaw
applied to investigate the causes of this difficulty, and to
ascertain the best means of surmounting it. But the doubt
which he entertained, if he entertained it at all, was al-
together removed when he remembered that, peculiar as the
soil of Cheltenham might be—and peculiar it certainly was—
the very same difficulty had been overcome by Mr. Stephen-
son in his works on the North-Western Railway at Camden-
town. He was free to confess, in his opening speech to the
Conrmittee, now about I._moritll ago, he had been somewhat
rash, for he had mixed liffself anti Mr. Brunel up with things
which were different from each other in their character,
and had stated, am, indeed, he must state now, namely, that
the passage through Cheltenham was, and was intended to
he, neither more nor less than a common railway cutting;
and if there was a difficulty at all from the pressure of the
water, it surely would be ascertained by the present condi-
tion of the sewer that had been firmed by the construction of
the Gloucester Railway. They had proved the level of the
sewers; they had called Mr. Paul, who had been the sur-
veyor of the sewers, as well as several other witnesses, and
those witnesses had proved that the level of the sewer was
precisely the same in 1846 as it was in 1845, and that in
1845 it was precisely the same as it was in the year 1836.
It was true that there had been some evidence which proved
that the height of the water in the wells had been altered.
But was it likely to be oth, t vie , when, during the last
few years, there had been a population growing up cf tens
of thousands, and when every man who sank his
well lower than his neighbour, robbed him of the quantity of
water that he had previously enjoyed? Why, there was pre-
cisely a sirpilar case going on in another room, where the
Liverpool corporation had shown that they had become
alarmed by the abstraction of their usual supply of water,
and they had sunk a well down into the sandstone, and had
succeeded in draining the Springs for three thousandb feet
on each side of it. And all the witnesses who had
ad-
duced from Cheltenham had each stated that when theyeen
sunk their well lower, they had each recovet-ed hadtle
water that had been abstracted by the formation of thel
sewer. Further than this, it had been put in evidence b 3
Mr. Dawke, that only at a distance of 374 yards from the
Gloucester Railway, the water absolutely stood higher in the
sand than it did in the cutting of the line; and every engi-
neer who had been called on the other side had all, without
a single exception, repudiated every notion that the water
would be permanently abstracted. Mr. Wood, Mr.
Locke, Mr. Leather, and Mr. Gibbs, had all said
that, although the work would be diflieu't and expen-
sive, yet, atter all, the water would not be permanently,
even if it were temporarily, abstracted; end even Mr.
Stephenson himself had allowed that the level of the water
would not be permanently altered. In truth, it was the wit-
nesses for the Great Western project who had stalest most
strongly the difficulties which would have to be encountered.
Mr. Brunel's plan was to pump out the water from the exca-
vation by small portions at a time, so that the in-
stance which bad been adduced by Mr. Stephenson of the
pressure of forty feet at the iiileby tunnel was not
a case at all in point, and he must charge that gentleman
with something like disingenuousness in making such a
charge. It had been assertjz from the letter of Mr. Close,
that the water had been reduced eight feet in the line of its
level, but on cross-examination that gentleman had ad-
mitted that his letter was awkwardly expressed, and that a
usual reader might have so understood him, but that in
reality it was not so. This was his answer
to the Cheltenham case, and he firmly believed
that if the respectable inhabitants of that place
heard such eminent men as Mr. Locke and Mr. Gibbs state
that it was merely a matter of expense to the company,
the whole of their opposition would be immediately with-
drawn. Then, as to that great objection respecting the station
at Chekenham, it had been shown that the flow there was
upwards instead of downwards; and even if there were, as
was represented, a pressure at that point of 5 feet 9 inches,
a flooring of 2 feet iechea would be amply sufficient.
And with respect to the assertion that the water could
never pass under the railway in the way which was
supposed, Sir. Stephenson himself had allowed, that
even if the piling did prevent its crossing at one particular
phase, it would follow the bend of the work and ultimately
find its way after the same course. Then as to the attack
en the estimates, an attack which he had hoped never to see,
sail which of all. thinga he least expected from a company
of such railway experience as the North-Western, be would
show that it was utterly groundless and insufficient
for its object. The works had been estimated at
60,000 L, and the land at 85,0001. ; but Mr. Haynes
and Mr. Dawke had together made out that those
were quite insufficient, and that they ought for all
these purposes to be at least 287,0001.; but evon Mr.
Stephenson himself had not ventured to attack these calcu-
lations ; and even it the allegations of excess were correct, if
it was true that the works would cost 90,000/. more than
they had been estimated, there was still an ample supply in
the million which Mr. Brunel had taken as the capital for the
line, for out of it there were 20C,000/. for Which no occupation
had been provided. He had made these remarks, because
he really expected that the main ground of objection would
be the abstraction of the water. As to the assertion that
there would be great injury to the house property in Chel-
tenham, Mr. Brunel had shown that there were only six
houses which would in any way be affected, at least injuri-
ously, in the whole of the town, and with the present mania
for central stations, it was impossible to prevent some injury;
but, taking the main case which had been brought forward—
he meant that of the Wesleyan chapel and the place of
worship used by the followers ofLadynuntingden,—he thought
the Committee would not consider it to be of much import-
ance, when they recollected that since the construction of the
line, a goegeous ecclesiastical edifice had been erected within
fifty-five yards of the Great Western Railway. This, he be
lieved, would close all that he had to say respecting the
Cheltenham case, and he would now proceed to unfold the
second volume of this same work, of which one was quite
sufficient, and to enter upon what he believed to be the teal
merits of the case. He was not blind to what was passing
around him, and allowing for them all the importance of the
representations in the fourth estate of the realm; and
acceding at once to the assertions of the difficulty of
raising capital at the present time, he would at the same time
express his conviction that it was in no way applicable to
the opposition of the North-Western Company ; for if it were
applicable to all, it was equally applicable to both companies,
and was easily to be met by the insertion of a clause giving a
power to construct the line in rive or six years instead of
three. lie trusted, therefore, that the Committee would at
once come to a decision upon the matter. There must
be railway communication to Cheltenham. That was
a matter upon which no one could entertain a
doubt, and that being the case, the only question was
by whom it should be made. There had already
been ten years of litigation, and a very expensive litigation
it had been. Then, on what principles were they to decide?
Mr. Hildyard had, in the first blow which he levelled, opened
the whole subject of which gauge was to be preferred. The
Great Western Company had already a line from Fish-
guerd, through South Wales, and had indeed opened up the
the
whole of the country to this district, with a view to shorten
distance between Ireland and the metropolis; and if the
Bill of that company were to be granted, there would be an
unbroken and continuous communication all the way ;
whereas, if they int,n)oaeci the narrow gauge, if they did
break the communication, they would at least very seriously
cripple it. That this was aquestion of immense importance
to the Forest of Dean there coulda he no doubt, for if this
break of gauge were allowed, traffic must of necessity
be cut off; and that coal which
pocket of the purchaser at Chelte.nirr a pound from the
nun, ought, according
to the representations of their
Pwtments, to be cold
at Ms. 2d. a ton. On the narrPo
already access to the Derbyshire and
Leicester
ge •there was
c,oarfilatirrelod‘s;
and only allow the Staffordshire coal to come
gauge, and they would at once insulate the Forestth o
coal as much as if there was no railway in the e"-e,anh
bourhood at all. But allow the preamble of the wiljl,ii'nq
make a broad gauge line from the west, and the Committee
would give, not only in Cheltenham, but in Oxford also, a
fair competition for the coals of the different districts. The
Learned Counsel then went on to discuss the legal effect
of the report of the Board of Trade on theetroective
merit of the gauges, and stated that ,a clause serX• inserted
to show what the gauge should be, and unless the Committee
were prepared practically to repeal an
.Act of Parliament,
which they were only caked upon to administer to the satis-
faction of the public, the Great. Western Company would
get to London by their own broad gauge line, and
westward of Cheltenham there was an uninteappted
chain of communication on the same gauge. The question
then was, on what principle were they to act in joining these
two•portiuns of the line between Fishguard and the metro-
polis.
Mr. Hildyard had rightly stated that
.public enter-
prise
had taken its tone from the reports of the Board of Trade,
and those reports had evidently shown that if the commu-
ication between the Welsh coal-fields and the manufacturing
Alistricts of the north were necessary, it was equally advisable
that the communication east and west should be on the
broad gauge. Mr. Talbot then read the Earl of Dalhousie's
remarks in the report, to show how Newport, Swansea, and
tether places would be affected, and to prove that there was '
on absolute requisition for a coast line to bring them into

contzct with the districts eastward. The South Wales
line, therefore, was the line for the mineral tratlic,
and if for the mineral traffic, then for all other speeies of
traffic that could be brought upon it ;
and they had therefore
to judge whether they wouldtake the narrowhe gauge in the
bush in the pl
broadaceofthg,g
the broad
at ref
adglyegeiod
nrt,
and all th evidence.hanri.,Flieyllacl
already gotthe
of their opponents hail gone to shonwattahrartaitihye tnroarffithey,oafrtdh,e.
narrow gauge ought to be, and wa„,
M. Hildvaru had not been content
h with ithreamtatarkeks at the
inthemlainine
under discussion, but had level.
line of the South Wales itself ; and had stated because it
hugged the coast, as he termed it, that it was unnecessary,
from its adjacency to the River Severn and the Bristol
Channel. Why, it was well known that the very reason why that
railway was necessary was the tediousness, the uncertainty,
and the risk of that passage. And certainly wonders would
never cease, for it was perfectly astounding that the North-
Western Company should allege such an argument in the
teeth of the very fact that they were themselves reaping in-
ordinate profits from carrying' merchandise to Edinburgh, in
competition with the very best system of steam navigation that
this country had ever possessed ; and had, in consequence of its
powers, almost absolutely ruined some of the best canals of
the country. The Learned Counsel then entered into an
examination of the relative advantages of the two schemes
to the public, from the facilities which they gave at the ports of
Gloucester and London, and showed that whatever might be the
present posses ions of the North-lVestern :Company, the
Great Western had at least as powerful means for meeting
the necessities of public accommodation, and stated his belief
that in these days it was impossible to live in apathy or
quiet, and it was therefore evident that this line would be
made by some party, and the Great Western Company were,
in his opinion, entitled :to its construction. The Learned
Counsel then went into an examination of the convenience
that would be obtained by the construction of the Bir-
mingham and Oxford line, and the consequences that would
flow from the establishment of the several projects, which
extended to the south-west, and concluded a long anSpower-
ful speech a little before four o'clock, when
The Committee intimated that they would give their de-
cision as soon as they received the report of the Railway
Commissioners, unless something should transpire in the
course of the cases about to come under their consideration
that they ought to postpone the declaration of it, till those
cases had been heart].