The Sun.
London, England, 1847-12-10 00:00:00

T FI E U N,

solved upon by a large meeting in Tipperary. Now,
2W could the Noble Lord have known this except I
from some of the parties present ? He disbelieved
the whole story from beginning to end. What se- I
city could there be for its truth ? By no rational
sign, ment could this Bill be shown to be for the pro-
,7tion of life and property, The same sort of feel-
'B' would prevail after it; enactment as now, so that
nothing would be gained by it. He for one was not
imposed to object to the Bill because it was unac-
emnpanied by remedial measures, knowing how
114;,.,113' obstacles there were to the immediate
41 roduction of such measures. He did not
.4
"eliPose an Act of Parliament could be at once pre-
rared to remedy those great defects in the law of land-
21'd and tenant. He wished to see it done delibe-
altelY He joined with the Honourable Member for
the Rouse on that subject which would do injustice
`Q landlords, who, he believed were well dispeaed to
Peld to every fair and reasonable proposition. He
tad heard that a Bill, prepared on this subject had
en sent over to Ireland, and returned by the Lord-
Lieutenant for alteration ; therefore he was not at
all disposed to doubt the proniises of remedial mea-
,Zre.,B made by the Government. 3itich. had been
cud lately on the subject of statements suppaaad to
fade by the priests from the altar. was
""t a corner of the country in which there were nOt•
Well-educated and loyal men, and he did not believe
Mat anyone of the Roman Catholic clergy would
dare to
.get up in the face of his congregation and
:eke any statement that would instigate to assassina-
e•
n. He knew, as every one must know, that it was
1144 habit in country chapels on Sundays for the cler-
Mien to give notice of deaths, marriages, or any
ether remarkable events which might have occurred
"along his congregation ; but these notices were
generally intended to effect some good object. He
cad once heard a priest tell his parishioners of the
Peat Mr. So-and-So, having lost thirty turkeys from
W•
s farm-yard ; and the comment was, " All I can say
• that if Mr. Burke gave more of his'turkeys to his
friends, he would miss them less."—(l;aughter.) He
Was sure the country clergymen of Ireland never
eould have done the things which had been attributed
to them. He could never give a vote for a Bill of
Mils kind, which had so much coercion in it.
M. O'CONNOR said the Hon. Member for Mon-
!rose had fallen into some unintentional errors. He
had told the House in one breath of the facility with
which murderers recekved absolution, and in the next
of the exemplary chara'eter of the clergy in Ireland.
If the Honourable Member for Limerick was charge-
able with having given his assent to the fit st reading
of this Bill, at all events he (Mr. O'Connor) could
not be taunted with opposing it now on the same
!round, because he had met it at the outset with the
strongest opposition. If any one argument more
strongly in point than another could be urged for
producing remedial measures contemporaneously with
lthis Bill, the Hon. Member for Montrose had
of
it, when he said, that at every public meeting
°_,t the people of England he ever attended, they had
denounced the tyranny of the Irish Government, and
41e injustice practised against the Irish people.
bad
was tha first constructive coercion Bill which
been introduced into that House, as was elicited
°Y the answer given by the Right Hon. Gentleman
to the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tam-
vrorth, implying that it embraced all previous acts of
coercion,
which were to be put into operation at the
instance of the Lord-Lieutenant. Therefore he re-
.;'Ognized in the pretended mildness of this measure a
kind of legal draw-note, which was to embrace every
other measure, a mockery, a delusion, and a snare.
ie had searched the library and every other place
In vain for the 85th volume of Hansard (this was the
corpus delicti, and had evidently been abstracted by
some judicious means), containing the speeches of the
.cloble Lord and Right Hon. Gentleman opposite
°ll the introduction of the coercion Bill by the
Government of the Right Honourable Member
for Tamworth. The Right Honourable Gentleman
the Secretary for Ireland moved the amend-
'bent, and, at the conclusion of his speech, said
the reason why he opposed the Bill was that remedial
measures did not accompany it. His Bill would be
a shut-up knife in the hands of the Lord-Lieutenant,
and he might open as many blades as he pleased. The
.1.4 w, as it at present stood, had not been applied in
-Ireland alike to the rich and the poor man. A cousin
.(!,f his (Mr. F. O'Connor), who had been educated in
England, was appointed, upon his leaving Oxford, to
the office of stipendiary magistrate in Ireland, and
the first case upon which he had to adjudicate was a
summons by a labourer against a landlord for wages.
,
'no gave his decision against the landlord, and the
consequence was, that the landlord next morning
called the magistrate out, and the magistrate had the
misfortune to shoot his adversary.—(A laugh.) Such
Was the state of society in Ireland. There was a
laugh when the landlord was shot in a duel ; but
there was sympathy for him when he was otherwise
shot. Why not better the law in Ireland ? Let
them teach the peasantry to rely upon the ordinary
law of the land in the same way that they had done
with respect to the colliers in the north of England.
But no, the Government would not do that, because
they thought they were a strong Government ; but if
every Irish Member had his feeling, they would act
on the suggestion of the Hon. Member for Bucking-
hamshire (Mr. Disraeli), and, instead of tampering
with the sore, eradicate the wound altogether.
Lord DUDLEY STUART said he considered
that it was a most melancholy circumstance that that
House should now be called upon to consider a
pleasure of this kind, after so many years of pro-
fessions from various Governments, and he believed
the honest professions, of a desire to ameliorate the
condition of Ireland. He felt that it was most me-
lancholy that they should at that time of day be
occupied in discussing a measure in some degree
coercive in its character. He fully admitted that the
People of Ireland had been brought into their present
condition by the misconduct of former Governments
---by misgovernment conducted during years and
centuries. The seed of the present state of things
had been sown by former Governments, and that was
a reason why he thought that the House was doubly
bound to do all in its power to promote the welfare
and advantage of Ireland, as some compensation for
the injustice and misgovernment which she had ex-
perienced. He thought that was a reason why they
should look upon the faults and offences committed
in Ireland with indulgence. But that was no reason
against passing this Bill, which was meant not to press
upon the people of Ireland, but to put a stop to a
Mate of things which was almost without a parallel.
Some of the Hon. Gentlemen who represented Irish
constituencies had spoken as if there was some hostile
feeling in that House and in the country against the
people of Ireland. He utterly disclaimed all feeling
of the sort. He utterly disclaimed it for the consti-
tuency which he represented ; and he disclaimed it
for the country at large. He believed that the people
of England desired that their Irish brethren should
Participate in every advantage which they themselves
enjoyed ; and lie could not take that Bill as any proof
b the contrary. The Hon. Member for Limerick
lad made use of an expression with regard to the
feeling of that House towards Ireland which he (Lord
Ludley Stuart) had heard with a great deal of pain.
Tie Hon. Member, deliberately repeating what he
hal asserted in heat and exasperation, said, that
there was not one instance in which a feeling
of kindness or justice had been expressed in the
House towards his cenntry. He (Lord Dudley
Stuart) had lamented, he confessed, to hear such
weeds from one who bore the name he dirl—
a name which he would always pronounce with
that admiration which was due to transcendent talent
exercised, as he believed, according to the dictates of
duty, as the distinguished individual who possessed it
understood it. lie (Lord D. Stuart) said that he la-
minted to hear such words from the Hon. Gentleman,
who in consequence of bearing that name must be
supposed to be one standing high among the Mem-
bers of the country to which he belonged, as one of
their leaders. He was, however, he confessed, greatly
Consoled when upon the division he found that the
Ron. Gentleman had excited so little sympathy
amongst his colleagues, that he actually in that divi-
sion found himself in a minority of his own country-
men. More Irish Members voted against him than
With him. The Hon. Gentleman, therefore, in mak-
ing use of the language and uttering the sentiments
to which he (Lord D. Stuart) had just referred, was
by no means the representative of the Irish feeling.
The Hon. Gentleman had endeavoured to show, not
only that there was a bad feeling in that House
against his country, but that a similar feel-
ing pervaded the whole people of England. He
quoted some expressions in the Examiner, in which
the writer, with that glowing language which be-
longed to him, said that England was ready to sup-
port the Government in a much stronger Bill than
that which was before the House, and even to assent
to a Bill that would enact that a man should be first
hung and then tried.—(Great laughter.) He (Lord
Dudley Stuart) believed that there was a good deal
of truth in that article of the Examiner. But the
Honourable Gentleman must know, and no man knew
better, ho quickly the public feeling passed from
One extreme to the other. Did not the Honourable
Gentleman know that a great deal of sympathy was
felt throughout the whole of this land—for he ought
to know—for his starving brethren ? Ten millions
had been appropriated, although the lion. Member
for Tralee seemed inclined to deny that it could be
Proved that more than a quarter of a million had
found its way into Ireland.
Mr. M. O'CONN ELL—I said a quarter of the
awn expended.
Lord D. STUART continued—The published re-
turns showed that 7,000,0001. of that sum had been
expended. It was perfectly true, no doubt, that there
was that kind of feeling throughout the country that
the people were ready to support the Government in
a much more severe Bill, but they would do so not
because they hated the Irish, but because they hated
murder, they Abhorred assassination. They could not

hear, and they would not bear, that a cowardly assas-
sin from behind a wall should shoot at their fellow men
in revenge for a real or supposed injury, and they
were detertnined to do what they could to pnt an end
to such a state of things, not by idle declamation,
not by sermons which were so nicely balanced by
inflammatory sentences in one part, and entreaties
not to commit crime in another—not by such mea-
sures as that, but by real practical measures. He
(Lord I). Stuart) thought it was the imperative
duty of Government to pass this Bill, as it was the
first duty of the Government to afford security to
life and property. If they neglected that, and suf-
fered murder and horrid outrage, and a state of
anarchy, and a reign of terror to continue in Ireland,
such as that which was at present prevailing there,
the guilt would be second only to that which was the
greatest of modern times, the guilt of the Austrian
Government, which not only suffered the tenants to
murder the landlords, but instigated them to it, and
paid them for it with honours and with gold. He
would not agree to any line of conduct that would
subject a country or a nation to any such imputation,
and feeling that there had been a clear case of neces-
sity made out for this Rill, that it was no stronger
than the occasion required, he felt that he would best
do his duty to his constituents and the country by
giving it his hearty support.
Mr, M, O'CONNELL—The Noble Lord who
had just resumed his seat was regarded by his ad-
mirers .45 the champion of philanthropy, but it was
to be regretted that Ireland alone, of all the suffer-
ing nations of the earth, should possess no claim upon
his sympathy,- The grief of every other country that
suffered under oppression could claim his tears, but
when there was question of ow wrongs of Ireland he
was cold as marble His motto was coercion for
Ireland—liberty, safety, and the jealous preservation
of popular rights for every other country under the
sun. The Notle Lord interested himself deeply in
the task of redressing the wrongs of the inhabitants
of a distant land, but for his follow-subjects who re-
sided in a land within twenty- four hours' journey of
him, he felt not the least compassion. Al-
lusion had often been made to a domestic
description of charity which commenced at
home, and continued at home to the last ; but the
Noble Lord's charity was of a totally different quality.
It commenced abroad, and sojourned abroad, and in all
probability would not return home until Sir John
Franklin returned, whenever that might be. What
was most anomalous in the conduct of the Noble
Lord was, that, while he admitted that the miseries
of Ireland were traceable to the misrule and oppression
of former Governments, he was prepared to give his
assent to the coercive policy of the present Ministry,
without making any stipulation with them that they
should introduce remedial measures, and make it their
study to correct the misdoings of their predecessors
in office. Surely, if the Noble Lord was truly sincere
in his philanthropy, he ought to give his support to
no Government, unless to one which would endea-
vour to heal the wounds inflicted by former Govern-
ments, and to inspire in the minds of the people, by a
conciliatory policy, that love and respect for the
law which the vicious legislation of statesmen in
bygone times had banished from their hearts.
He (Mr. O'Connell) was quite as anxious as the
Noble Lord could possibly be for the cessation of
assassinations in Ireland, but he happened to know
more of that country than the Noble Lord knew
of Poland ; and he was convinced that any at-
tempt to establish good order in Ireland by means
of such enactments as the present must ever prove
abortive and futile. He had often asked English
Members who professed to sympathise with Ireland
why they did not evince their sympathy by their.
votes. One would reply that the feelings of his
constituency went the other way; a second, that by
so doing he would destroy his influence with the
Government ; a third, that such a vote would inter-
fere with some great commercial speculation he had
in hand; and a fourth, that he might perhaps get
something from voting with the Government, but
that he could not hope to gain anything by voting
against them. And thus it was that Ireland was
disregarded, and her people were left to misery and
wretchedness. But let the Ministry take warning.
Coercion Bills broke up and ruined the great Whig
party before now. The Noble Lord opposite told
them that if the transactions which took place in
Ireland had occurred in any county in England they
would have a coercion Bill ; but the Noble Lord
seemed to know very little either of England
or Ireland. He would show him that there
was more violence, more destruction of pro-
perty, equal destruction of life in England,
time after time, and that there had been no at-
tempt at coercion. In the year 1842 most fearful
riots prevailed in the manufacturing and mining dis-
tricts of England ; the country was in a state of
actual rebellion, and many lives were lost ; yet there
was no coercion Bill, though the ordinary force of
the constitution was inadequate, in many cases, to
cope with the numbers and determination of the
rioters.
Sir B. HALL—Were there any murders?
Mr. M. O'CONNELL would show that. He did
not come unprepared, as the Hon: Baronet might
imagine ; and the Hon. Baronet must recollect that
there was an insurrection in his own district in Wales
during the time of Rebecca. And in reply to the
question—" Were there any murders ?"—he begged
to read to him the following statement :—" On the
29th of July, 1843, at Crossnewd Gate, Captain
Napier and the police arrested four of the
rioters, after a desperate struggle ; Captain
Napier was desperately wounded, and one of
the rioters." He found, in the Examiner of the 12th
August this statement—" On Friday, at New Inn, a
gate was destroyed ; the gatekeeper's wife was shot
at and deprived of her sight." So that in the Hon.
Baronet's own country, during a considerable portion
of the year 1843, the district was in a state of insur-
rection ; all descriptions of violence were committed ;
the people were arrayed against the law, and the dis-
turbance was put down without any coercion, or
attempt at coercion, but by the mere ordinary course
of the law. He (Mr. M. O'Connell) believed the
Hon. Baronet must confess that Wales was in such a
condition at that time that it was impossible to get a
constable to execute his duty. It was found in Ire-
land that coroners' juries returned true verdicts, but
what was the vereict of a Welsh jury on a woman
who was shot ? The evidence of the surgeon was,
that he had extracted shot from the wound, but still
the verdict of the Welsh jury was this :—" The de-
ceased died from the effusion of blood on the chest,
whiah occasioned suftbcation, from what cause is to
the jury unknown." Was he not, he asked, entitled to
require of the Government to confine themselves to
the execution of the ordinary law ? Let them not
give them a different description of law to that ap-
plied to England and Wales, but give them a law
that would put an end to disobedience. While there
was one remedy for England and another for them—
while they had one law for the rich and Another for
the poor—so long they would find Ireland still
struggling against their legislation ; and they would
find that, instead of succeeding in their object by a
coercion Bill, their coercion Bills would pass away,
but the recollection of their injustice would remain
—and remain for ever.—(Hear, hear, and cries of
" Divide.") If they were to put the ordinary laws
in force—if they would deal with Ireland as they had
dealt with England and Wales, they would have the
good wishes of every rational man with them. What
the Irish Members asked was to be allowed to see
what were the remedies about to be proposed, and if
they were feasible they would join 'the Government
in carrying out their view's.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said that the Honourable
Gentleman who had just sat down would, he hoped,
excuse him if he declined to follow him over the very
discursive range which he occupied in the address
which he had just delivered to the House.—(Hear,
hear, and a laugh.) The Hon. Gentleman had gone
into a history of the Rebecca riots in Wales ; into
the merits and demerits of the Board of Works in
Ireland, and he had created a sort of Russo-Polish
Parliament for the benefit of the Noble Lord the
Member for Marylebone (Lord Dudley Stuart). But
after having given the closest attention to his speech,
he (Sir W. Somerville) had detected very little in it
having reference to the question before the House.
Both the Hon. Gentlemen who had opened the dehate
on the present occasion, and the Honourable Mem-
ber for Nottingham, had enlarged more than the
occasion required upon the acts of those who had
opposed measures of coercion upon former occa-
sions, but who now introduced measures of a similar
description. He (Sir W. Somerville) did not think
that if the circumstances, both as regarded the occa-
sion on which the present measure wks introduced,
the nature of the proposed measure itself, and the
spirit evinced by the Government in introducing it,
were considered, it would be difficult to show that
there was no parallel whatsoever between it and
those previously brought forward.—(Hear, hear.)
The present measure had been met by a most cor-
dial spirit of satisfaction on both sides of the House,
and that spirit had been most especially evinced by
the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth ;
and so strongly did he (Sir William Somerville) feel
the imperative necessity for passing the Bill in order
to put a stop to the reign of terror which now pre-
vailed in Ireland, and that those frequent assassina-
tions which were bringing disgrace upon his country-
men—(Hear, hear)—should be prevented, that if he
could hurry the passing of it by one single moment
he would do so, and be content to rest under the
charge of inconsistency.—
ported hear.) He sup-
ported it as a measure that was wanted for the occasion.
His Right Hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the
Home Department had, by the speech which he had
made to the House, in proposing it, spared him (Sir
W. Somerville) the necessity of going through the
category of crimes which were now rife in Ireland;
but it was not alone the number of crimes that had
been committed that alarmed him. It was the type
and nature which those crimes exhibited.—(Hear,
bear.) And let not Hon. Gentlemen be too much