The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-24 00:00:00

very seeious objection could be advanced, and he intended to
introduce an amendment that would meet the views of the
Noble Lord. In reply to an observation of the Noble Lord 14
opposite, he wished to state that he would receive a report
from the Commissioners, to which he might refuse to' accede. ''''
Lerd ELLENBOROUGH said he felt quite satisfied with
the Noble . Lord's statement that he would introduce an ',,=;,
...e-i
amendment. ~..
..,
.M The -arquis of 'LANSDOWNE said that there wet* - -
certain other amendments which it was intended to introdune• -,
The NOBLE MARQUIS .then proceeded to refer to amend-
ments -:
which he proposed to insert in the Bill. .
The Marquis of WESTMEATH said the late meeting- of -"-
Irish proprietors in Dublin proved that better feelings had
been generated among them, and that there was now gretiter•
hope than ever for the improvement of Ireland. He regretted
that there was no provision in the Bill for the more effectual :--'
collection of the poor rates.
Lord BEAUMONT said that he desired to take that oppor• "'
tunity of 'correcting a mistake which had appeared in a lotte-
d Mr. Commissioner Otway from Castlebar. He states that
_
a near connexion of mine, a Noble Lord who does not pogo'
a seat in this House Lord Kilmaine, has not paid
the greater portion of his rates. He ( Lord Beaumont)
had received a letter from that Noble Lord, and he had also a
communication with his agent, and they had both assured him
that that statement was totally incorrect; that all the rates
had been paid, and that no portion of them were unpaid at
any time, as they were always paid upon application. $e
thought, however, that he might be allowed to remark that
he did not wonder that these mistakes should occur from th°
incorrect manner in which the collector's rate-books were kept-
lie acknowledged that the Bill was a necessity of the moment;
. ..

lint he thought a great disadvantage would arise from the me'
thod in which one rate was made to clear another; for that
was really what would oecur.—(Hear, hear.) One rate
e would not be half collected, before another was struck,
. The system of levying the rates in England was much sncre,
. complete and rapid than it was in Ireland, in consequence °` y
the long notice required. The system, however, was produ" ~
tive of most)njurious effects to those who• did pay their rates
while those who did not pay them escaped comparatively free'
If a retail trade had existed in Ireland, to distribute the till'
mense supply of provisions that had arrived in this country*- .
three-fourths of the suffering which had prevailed in that counts ' 1
try would have been prevented. He would just observe in /.
conclusion, that an extensive system of emigration must be re-
sorted to, if an improved system of cultivation of the land was
to be introduced. In England there were but three labourers
to the hundred acres; but in Ireland there were eight; mid
until this surplus population was removed, they could not hope
to establish the prosperity of Ireland on a permanent footing.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY was about to address
the House, when
The LORD CHANCELLOR interrupted him, and said
that be had received a Commission from her Majesty and the
House should stand prorogued during pleasure.
ROYAL COMMISSION.
The LORD CHANCELLOR then retired, and in a few
minutes returned, accompanied by the Earl of Minto and the
Earl of Shaftesbury, in their robe, as Lords Commissioners,
to give the Royal assent to several Bills.
The Usher of the Black Rod then summoned the Com-
mons, when the Royal assent was given in the usual form to
the Buck Wheat Importation Bill, the Brewing from Sugar
Bill, the Distillation from Sugar Bill, and the Chelsea Pen-
sioners' Bill.

DESTITUTE PERSONS (IRELAND) BILL.
On the motion of the Marquis of Lansdowne this Bill ifs
then read a third time and passed.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Feb. 23.
COMMITTEE ON THE LAW OF SETTLEMENT

AND POOR REMOVAL.
Mr. BANKES postponed his motion on the report of tbio
Committee, as the report had not yet been printed, till tbst
day week. The Honourable Member said he would give no-
tice on the same day, of his intention to call the attention of
the House to a case which had been submitted to the 1&
officers of the Crown affecting the construction of a clause
the Act.

PUNISHMENT OF DEATH.
Mr. EW ART gave notice that he would on the 9th March
move the abolition of the punishment of death.
DIRECT TAXATION.

The HoN. AlvanEs also gave notice that on the same dal
r
he would call the attention of the House to the expediency °f
direct taxation.

RAILWAYS.

Lord GEORGE BEN TINCK gave notice of his intention
to move to-morrow for certain returns- which would fortis a
basis on which he meant to found certain observations in re'
spect to the figures and statements of the Chancellor of the El"
chequer last night, viz. a return of all the sums of money ea'
pended by certain English lines of railway previous to the raft
1845, including the South Western, the South Eastern, an d
the Midland Companies; and a return of all the sums expended
by the railways of Great Britain and Ireland on carriages, loc°-
motives, and waggons, made up in triennial periods previous t°
the years 1841, 1844, and 1847 respectively.
COPPER ORE.
Mr. SPOONER said that in the absence of his lion. C°2;
league, he should move that the petition presented by hint the
other evening be printed with the votes.
JAMAICA.
Mr. HUME begged to ask a question whether any
sure had been adopted to put an end to the disputes betwea
the House of Assembly and the Judge of the Supreme Court'
by which the public business had been suspended for one year'
Mr. HA WES said that he was aware that such interruption
had taken place, but means had been taken to reconcile th.°
differences, and he had great pleasure in stating that pub
business would at the earliest period be resumed.
NUMBER OF DEATHS, IRELAND.
Mr. S. O'BRIEN postponed the motion of which he bed
given notice, respecting the return of the number of deaths
which had taker, place in Ireland from starvation since the IP
of November, 1846
Mr. P. SCROPE had heard that the workhouses of Ireland
were already completely filled with inmates, he saw that a Pe°d-
vision was made in the Poor-law (Ireland) Bill of the Ist St.
2nd Vic., for the purpose of extending the means of acconslau-
dation for the people by either enlarging the buildings or hiring
others. He wished to know whether it was the intention °
the Government to lay upon the table of the House any retol3".
respecting the workhouses in Ireland and their number of in.

mates.
Sir G. GREY—In a few days a series of papers will be !Ida
on the table of the House, which will contain the cortex'
pondence with the Board of Guardians, as well as the ster
sshich have been taken iii consequence.
DRAINAGE OF LANDS.
Mr. BAILLIE wished to know whether it was the inten-
tionfor
of her Majesty's Government to introduce any. measure le.
the improvement of the Drainage Act of last session, whe-
ther they intended to introduce any new Bill that might alter
the principle of that Act.
Sir G. GREY said that a new Bill had been preps!'ed for
the amendment of the Act fur the drainage of last session,
though he could not go to the length of saying that the nor
Bill would alter the principle of the Act of last year. f
Mr. HUME wished to ask whether it was the intention.?
Her Majesty's Government to introduce any measure to 00511:
the proprietors of entailed estates to dispose of part of the!t
property for the improvement of the rest of it, or whether I
was intended to burden the couutry with the expense.
Sir G. GREY said that his rel to the question a the
Hon. Member for Inverness would have intimated that there
was to be no change in the principle of the measure, but to
might add that it was the intention of the Government f
apply to Parliament for no more than the sanction of Part
the 2,000,0d0/. granted last year unifier the Drainage Act•
Mr. BOUVERIE wished to know whether the Govern-
ment had any objection to lay the correspondence respectl
Seotland on the table, as well as that which concerned Irelsoe
Sir G. GREY—None at all, it would be included. tit
Mr. COLLETT wished to ask whether there was any tip„ b
in the statement that the Government were about to estabild
a bishopric in illanchestcr, and whether the Noble Lord riall
give any information on the subject?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL thought the best way of
inf ,rmatiun on this subject, was to lay a copy of the comma's.—
issued by le r Majesty for the founding of the new bishopric!!
on the table. This he had done a week ago, and it bad beea
ordered to be printed, and when it was in the hands of the Ilea;
Member, he would find that it was intended to found
bishopric in Manchester, as well as three other bishopriee:
From the present state of the Episcopal revenue, it would oak
be necessary to add any new charge to the country for the ear
port of these bishoprics. He might add, that it was not the Ca-
tion of her Majesty to summon the new bishops to sit in Pal;
liament, but they would take their turn, as any casualty etnell°
the bishops occasioned a vacancy.
Mr. ROEBUCK asked if the arrangement would be carriati
out without an Act of Parliament?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said it would be impossible to
carry it out without an Act of Parliament. So soon ea
received the report of the Commission, he should ask for lea."
to introduce a Bill upon the subject.
THE FRANCHISE.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said he was in a difficulty as
to the course he should take with reference to the notice be
had on the paper. He did not know what was the intentioo
of the House or the Government in reference to it. He !II;
derstood the Government had no objection to his introdtrte;
the Bill, but there were some gentlemen opposite might. rd°,7ll
if Government could give him permission to introduce the 0/ t
upon the understanding that they approved of the principles blt
did not piedge themselves to the details, he would postpone tiles
discussion till the second reading . If, however, Governtoea
did not object to the Bill now, because they would have an at:
portunity strangling it hereafter, he mutt go at once into t°'

matter.
Lord J. RUSSELL said, if the Hon. Gentleman nsere3
wished to bring his Bill before the House, he should
offer no objection to his doing so. He certainly show"
offer an objection to his laying it on the table
but if the Bill was, as he had stated, 'magi
proposed to repeal that clause of the Reform Bill which bee
reference to the day on which taxes should be paid to secure
a vote,
ewes
thoughttirhiotuot proposingfs such
i tc
hrright
hßt
itlael
. itt any new naefewatthey
once provisions
wi o
to the
h
Bttl
discussed now, be thought it right to state to him at the out'
set, that he should oppose a decided negative to the Bill. d
s hte that
t tor he
haveother
was
o thepc p 0
so
Sir DE LACY EVANS said as he had consented to sae!.
the motion of the Hon. Gentleman, he begged to suggest t 0
him, that he should simply move for leave to introduce ".
Bill, and defer the discussion until a future day. hat
Mr. DUNCOMBE said he was perfectly aware
the Noble Lord was opposed to such a Bill
the one he now sought to introduce. It however'
contained but one clause, and its object simply
to repeal that portion of the Reform Bill which mad be
e tig
payment of rates imperative by a certain day to receive
registration of a vote. It was entitled " a Bill to rejLt`t,
much of an Act passed in the reign of William the ruel.,k,
intituled, an Act to amend the representation of the pezeir:n
in England and Wales,' as makes the right to registra,borelea
cities and boroughs conditional on the payment of poor 0
old
and assessed taxes." At, however, deferring the Bill w the
only lead two discussions, he thought it better to ha.`ft.re,,
discussion then and to fight it out at once.—( Hear.) 'Ties
fore he would state as shortly as possible the grounds on
for re
he sought leave to introduce the Bill. It provided fa Lii`et
moving one of the greatest blots in the Reform Bill-eTtie:'
or
complained of by the whole electoral body whether in
_cc'
in boroughs, and was one which he sincerely believed deser
vthe
the most serious consideration of the Government and of
House. The chief objection to the clause was that it was ;co
constitutional in principle, vexatious in its operation. lur,;:on„
it opened the door to all' manner of bribery and favou t_tiards
He should prove that it was unconstitutional from the
the
of the Noble Lord himself, !n speaking of the operatio?
.0,0
Reform Bill. The substance of the Noble Lord's oPol,ad a
that occasion was that no man should e,. taxed until he iLsen
voice in the making of the laws which imposed those lazes
upon him. The Reform Bill, he contended, had not answered
a__ot
the expectations which had been formed of it ; it even
.h.mecelf.
answered the expectations of the Noble Lord ni that
At the time that Bill was passed, the Noble Lordstatedof new
he intended to call into electoral existence half a million
b_co
voters; that he would give 100,0 A to the Eng
lisconsiderable
60,0(0 to Scotland, 4'1,000 to Ireland, and 20. But what
number to the metropolis, making nearly
h ben resu't ? In Marylehone,
32,111 11-,,z,,,i,cdclers, but there were only i! ,h, rated
7 ti:r cT,3I difference. In Fnusbt?rs4)„,,,,i the
~„ but there viere only rp6 ,„
but 01]..,
were 64, ,
r: islet. In the Tower Hamlets there only
11,536, boa 13,000 on the register; and in Greenwich
o_ the how
were
3,610 on the register. In Greenwich many I
isnooloBo4.l:,t7h6esreei7tehree