The Sun.
London, England, 1847-02-18 00:00:00

be called upon he could do so.—(Hear, hear.) That, how-
ever, was not the question he wished to embark in ; but, with-
outthe
any feeling of party, he wanted to address himself too t
great question which was now occupying the attention f he
Honse.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman who last
ad-
dressed them had held out a threat to the House
tbhaeir which
he proposed to influence their judgment through
feel-
ings, and he wished to know whether thate deal-
ingtootfiof
with the question was worthy of the r pwre°dsene
fair to ask the
the people—was it rational ?—( Hear, hear.) Tne Hon.
Member for Knaresborough said it was not
labourer this question, " Ar!Joußwoti, in his opinion, it waslling to take ten hours'
wages for ten hours' work ?
more hours' out to
for
honourable putting it that way, than holding
the operative that be would receive twelvewages
the ten hours' work if this Bill were passed. Now, could they
by any legislative enactment secure for the labouring man 12 '
lioursi wages for ten hours' work ? If they could do that,
why could they not receive twelve hours' wages for six hours'
work? Nay, he would go further, and say, why could they
not receive twelve hours' wages for no work at all?—(Hear,
and laughter.) The Honourable Member for Weymouth
bad indulged in some remarks against over-pro-
duction, and argued that it would raise the price
of a shirt a farthing, or a coat a penny. He appre-
hended that was not the way in which they ought to meet
the question, nor was trade calculated upon that principle.
How was it calculated? Why, a man having a certain
capital to exhaust, employed a certain number of labourers
in the production of certain articles, which he afterwards
threw into the home and foreign markets to compete with
others, and if he was undersold of course his speculation
failed. That was the principle which regulated trade, but
if by legislative enactments they attempted to cripple trade
they might depend upon it America would not follow
their example, and much of their trade would be lost to them
for ever. But what was the state of the country when
this measure was brought forward? Why they were about to
maintain three millions of people just at the very moment
it was proposed to them to tie up theright hand of the British
flpeople. He had heard it said that their success in their con-
icts with Napoleon was owing to British valour. There was,
however, another implement they used in the conflict, and
that was the British influence supplied by the manufacturing
sinews of the country. They had now an enemy far
!greater than Napoleon, who was a far more potent
instrument than Napoleon. They had a famine stalk-
/Jig over the land. Ireland was starving, and England
was approaching starvation state, and yet at this
moment, for party purposes, the question was raised.
The Irish people were promised mutton every day, the En-
glish were promised twelve hours' wages for ten hours' work.
This was called " statesmanship, dealing with the interests of
a great country upon a comprehensive plan" by the large
party opposite—" my party." It was the conduct of the man
who hoisted a flag upon the sea coast in the hope of getting
a raething from the scramble which might arise from the
shipwreck of some unfortunate vessel that might pass along
the coast. Whether the ship should hoist the green flag of
Ireland, or whether it be the ten hours' flag, it is all the
same to " the great party." He had been asked why he
did not come forward to meet a Noble Lord
(Lord Ashley) upon a former occasion. He was
not afraid to meet any person upon the principles which he
held. He was not however a peripatetic, wishing ta wander
up and down among the people, propounding his principles
to them. His place was in that House, and is that House
he would always state fairly and openly his opinions. He
believed that the great body of the operatives of this
country really and seriously believed that wages could be
regulated by Act of Parliament. He differed from that
opinion ; he was perfectly confident of the truth of his
opinions, and he wished that those persons were present by
their representatives in that House to give effect to their
principles and wishes. He hoped that he would soon see
the day when his Hon. Friend the Member for Finsbury would
submit a really large and comprehensive measure to the
leader of " the great party," which should give to the
labouring population of the country the constitutional
means of expressiug their opinion upon subjects before the
House. The way in which the Noble Lord and " the great
party" dealt with the operatives of the country
was always by a sort of patronising air ; they
patted the people on their heads, and said to them
"We will do you all good, only be quiet—just listen to us
—we will be your pastors and masters—we will will guide
you always, and give you whatever you may desire in the
position in which it has pleased God to call you—but do not,
for Heaven's sake, attempt to be legislators." He (Mr. Roe-
back) wished them to be legislators, and to have the means
of constitutionally expressing their opinions. He believed
that it would be a great calamity to the country, if at the
present momentous crisis this measure were to be carried.
lie deeply sympathised with the Noble Lord at the head of
the Government, and most heartily wished him the utmost
success in his measures; but so sure as he was now the
chief adviser of the Crown, he might be assured
that he would be crippling the energies of the
country, and sullying the lustre and authority of his
great name, if he lent his authority to the passing of this
measure. He hoped he would not deal with the measure in
so trifling and mischievous a manner as he had proposed, by
limiting the period of labour to eleven hours a day. If the
legislation were worth a farthing, it was worth going all the
way. —(Cheers.) If by legislation the Government could
make the people happy, they ought to make them completely
happy, and, for his part, he would rather vote at once with
the Hon. Member for Oldham than for the eleven hours' pro-
position.—(Cheers.) He hoped there would be no
trifling of this sort, no half measures, nor any
halting between these distinct and opposite opinions.
It the measure of interference was good it ought to be ap-
plied to the agricultural labourers as well as the manufac-
turers; and he would propose in this Bill, if it ever came
into action, that no farmer should employ any child under
13 years of age, and that he should also be compelled to edu-
cate them in the same manner as the manufacturers were.
any young rhetorician who wishes to employ rather a ,
strong weapon with a weak hand, and draw up
affecting details with his own diluted phraseology, he
reed only say that he comes to advocate the rights of
woman.—(Hear, hear.) Yes, that was the phrase. Now,
Le never heard any allusion to the agricultural women,
'who were constantly employed in the cold and wet
at fourpence a day. It was a very favourite
t ierue to describe the effects of factories upon the
human frame. He (Mr. Roebuck) had no professional
knowledge upon that subject, but he could read, and he had
22ad, and he had gone through a great number of factories,
and he found that the health of the females was in ten thou-
sand times a better condition than that of the women
Employed in agriculture, whom he bad seen driven to the
field, in the cold and wet, ill led and ill clothed, and they
were so because their masters were not able to pay
hem higher wages ; but if they interfered with
the amount of work done by the factory operative,
they would necessitate a decrease in his wages, and these
name misfortunes would then befal them. Now, if he wanted
10 show a foreigner the glory of his country, its wealth, and
its riches, and if he desired to give him a high opinion of the
power of the country, lie would take him to those places of
industry in the north of England. It would not be to the
hovel of the agrigultural labourer in the south, nor to show
lim how the poor women had only fourpence per day.
No, he would bring him to those immense towns which had
sprung up from this mighty intelligence—the enterprise of
England—(Hear, hear)—where thousands of men were fed
and clothed. Let them, if they chose, demand a certi-
ficate of education from every man who employed
children in his factory. But, whatever was good
for the factories of the north of England, must be surely of
equal benefit to the agriculturists of the south. He. for his
part, could not draw any line of distinction, and he would
take care to introduce a clause which would extend the benefit.
When this disappointment did come, the first parties who
would come to that House to complain of their legislation
would be the labouring classes themselves.—(Hear.) The
consumer would feel it also, and the nation would
feel it to its heart's core; and when they had to supply
millions with food, they would find the chancellor of the
Exchequer complaining that the energies of the nation had
been crippled, his finances cut short, and the right arm of
England weakened.—( Hear.)
Mr. P. BOR'I'HWICK considered that the labour of
women and children ought to be restricted, whether employed
in Printing-house-square or in the fields ; but as
the experiment, with respect to both sexes ought to be
fairly tried, and as he had voted during the whole time he
bad sat in Parliament for the measures of Lord Ashley, he
should support the second reading of the Bill.
Sir R. H. INGLIS said, although the Hon. Member for
Bath ;and he occupied seats in the same locality in that
House, he seldom agreed with the principles which he (Mr.
Roebuck) enunciated ; but in the speech which he had
delivered there were some observations which he heard with
unfailing pleasure, particularly his concluding observation—
that sooner or later the passing of such a measure
as the one before the House was inevitable.—(Hear, hear.)
The result of the experiments which had been made gave
them every encouragement to go forward. The prophecies
against the operation of the present measure were stated four
years ago, when the late Government was in power, and
when its supporters on one occasion were dragged through the
mire in order to rescind the vote which they had given in
favour of the Bill. He said then that, postpone it as
they might, sooner or later the measure must be carried,
and become the law of the land. The other point on which
he agreed with the Hon. Member for Bath was, if the mea-
sure was to be agreed to by the House, they should take the
Bill as it stood. With the views which lie (Sir R.
Inglis) entertained of the ultimate success of the
ten hours' measure, lie could not see how the
Government should prolong a vexatious agitation
out of doors for the next few years. He trusted instead
of doing so, her Majesty's Government would reconsider the
question, and consent to the Bill as it stood on the table.—
(hear, hear.) Should they do so, and the Bill not work so
favourably as expected, then they could come down to the
House in 1849, and recal the step which had been taken.
The Hon. and Learned Member for Bath had ascribed party
motives to the lion. Members whose names were on the back
of the Bill, especially to the Noble Lord the Member for
Newark (Lord John Manners), but he could not see how he
could make this appear, as on all other questions those Hon.
members entirely differed. It was reasonable to suppose
that, in introducing the present Bill, they were actuated by
pere and honourable feelings. The experiment of the last
twenty years gave them every encouragement to
g ) forward, as all the prophecies which had
been made against intervention had proved fallacious.
His great object was not to raise the price of labour, nor
the actual expense attendant upon the manufacture of
cotton, but to distribute the work more equally. At the pre-
sent moment, as he was informed, the work was distributed
ziot over the six days of the week, but in Only mills over
four days only, and in others for only three days, the
work being the same in quaritity. He had letter's from Sian-
chester, which stated that some mills only worked four days
iri the week, some only three days, and some were entirely
stopped. He wished to call the attention of the House to the
tact, that this moment there were men working 48 hours
Per week, and who would, if their hours of labour were re-
duced, work 59 hours. But that work would be distributed
vfovrerseize..who,le week, so that they would get six days' wages
greater uaajcasunwtork, and the manufacturers would derive a
bands employed of work from the system. The number of
employed for three days were 3,059 ; and there
were about 500
those not employedpamoyed for one day in the week ; whilst
partially stopped fromouweotert t 06,415 ; making a total of those
amounting to 12,264. If theand those altogether stopped,
more equally it would be o work now given were distributed
sod afford an increased greater benefit to the workmen,
produce to the
manufacturers. He
still hoped that her Majesty's Govern
Bill to pass, in spite of the unadvised: Lent would allow this
Lord, and would also pass it in its originalefraoremrkt of
the Noble
Mr. TRELAWNY rose, but was for a long time
which . inaudible,
in consequence of the confusion prevailed in the house.
lie objected to the measure on this ground, because it was a'
distinct invasion of the rights of property; it invaded not
only the capital invested in manufactures;towork but the labourer
14 or 15
who, with a large family,. desired hours a
day, it also, for it limited his ability of pro_
was affected by
him. He would give his op-

not have addressed the House
lade by the Chancellor of the
Hon. Member for Bath, to
•ers were as well off as awl-
ling which would strike the
Neon the two employments
.ural labourer was away
day, and worked in the
hours, the factory labour( r

Wri
viling for thotse dependent on I3L
po sitipAta
rw n
3Titic • • wing.
would n
itate.• • t mat
er, 17: repeti I% the
a afecttilat tbe .6c
lturk;)abdm•tri.-1114 • • thi
40, ilksiyingjk contrast bets
ash ALA thatr:tliel:a2i4cultt
e tweFAL itotrgg a ch
in * t citheitraulor tea
t-c