The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-08 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, MAY 8, 1841

aware that among the Society of Friends, or by the most
ardent supporters of the cause of abolition of slavery, we,
any such doctrine maintained. The principle of his pre-
position was, were they, by what they were about to de,
likely to give encouragement to the slave trade aad to
slavery, and were they compelled to do so by the neces-
sities of the countryi? He would unhesitatingly say that
they were not so compelled. and he would contend that
without acme such pressing necessity it was decidedly
wrong to give any such increased stimulus to the slave trade.
Was there any crying necessity for it in the present pro-
spects of the country with regard to sugar ? Was the prospect
cf starvation, if he might be allowed the expression, of
sugar, so overwhelming as to compel them to sacrifice the
great experiment which they were making. The Noble
Lord had mentioned the date when he had made up his
mind to support the proposition ; be had stated that he
had so made up his mind some two or three months back.
Now, if the Noble Lord would look, he would see that
the prices were different now, and all the circumstances
of the case were at the present moment perfectly dif-
ferent from what they were at that time. The Noble
Lord had spoken with great contempt of all associations,
and had stated that he was supported by no association.
but stood up to support the rights of the great body of
thelpeople. There was, however, onegrcat body or associa-
tion whose aid the Noble Lord might reckon to carry out
another of his propositions, who were among his most
influential supporters, and whose assistance he supposed
would not be repudiated.—(Cheers.) Now, was the
prospect of starvation in sugar such as to compel them to
adopt the proposition of the Chancellor of the Exchequer?
At the end of :he last year they had 35,000 tons on hand,
and if they only allowed 5,000 tons as the increase upon
the supply from the West Indies last year, they would
have 115,000 tons of sugar from that source alone. From
the Mauritius, since the commencement of the present
year, there had been already shipped 20,000 tons, and
there were 20,000 tons more in the island waiting for
shipment at the present moment. From the East Indies
there had already been shipped for this country, 50,000
tons of the last year's crop, and 20,000 or 30,000 more
tons might be reasonably expected front the same source.
If all these were added up together it would be found, not
by any vague estimate, but as the result of accurate cal-
culation, that the supply during the present sear would
amount to 260,000 tons, being more by 60,000 tons
than the annual consumption of the country had ever
amounted to. Where then was the crying necessity,
where were the extraordinary circumstances, calling upon
them, for the sake of the weavers of Bolton, to give up every
chance of the success of the experiment which had been car-
ried on with so much anxiety, and in which we had expended
so much treasure and so much blood, of raising tropical
productions by free labour ? Would the Noble Lord, or the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, or the President of the
Board of Trade say that the proposed measure would be
no encouragement to the slave-trade in foreign countries ?
Why one of the reasons given for bringing forward the
measure was, that it would be a boon to the Brazils. It
was said the treaty with that country would soon expire,
and could not be renewed without making them some ad-
vantageous offer. Now, was this offer a mere mockery,
pretending to be an advantage, when in reality it was none
at all ?—( Hear.) Was it an advantage or was it not ?
And in whatever degree it was an advantage, it was an
advantage to a slave importing country to the detriment of
our owe colonies.—(Loud cheers.) He could not
treat, with the levity displayed by the Noble Lord, the
hope that we might be able to rear in the West Indian
colonies a sugar growing population. The Noble Lord
seemed to consider it a matter of slight importance, whe-
ther those colonies grew a staple export at all. He had
talked of the dangers of giving the East Indies a mono-
poly, but he (Lord Sandoz') could not give up the hope
of seeing an ample supply of sugar from our West Indian
colonies, the produce of free labour—(Cheers)—and ae
knew that was a feeling shared in by many wh.-‘, took a
great interest in the question, and who were 'failiticai sup-
porters, not of himself and his friends, )..at of the Noble
Lord. He held in his hand a volu.,e by Mr. Gurney,
e
one of the most eminent of th at party, in which that
gentleman stated, that in ad ,resting our black brethren
he had stated to them bow
who flocked around hie-4,
gre tly the cause of emancipation would be forwarded in
other parts of the world by their labouring contentedly to
produce the s'aspic product of the soil. Mr. Gurney was
actuated in. giving that advice by the same feeling which
had acterateu him ( Lord Sandon) in proposing his reso-
lutien. It was not a resolution brought forward for the
tearposes of party—(Cheers)—and he appealed to his own
friends to say it the resolution had not been his own dis-
tinct proposition, and if he had not urged its support upon
them on the same grounds on which he now urged it upon
the House, namely, the mortification with which he should
see a stop put to the great experiment now in progress,
merely because the country had happened temporarily to
suffer from the high price of sugar. After the Noble
Lord had read the account of the contentment and the pros-
perity of our black brethren in the West Indies he wondered
how the Noble Lord could have the heart to take measures
to destroy those prospects. If they considered the question
purely as a mercantile question ho would admit that the
protection was higher than was rcquired.—( Cheers.) But
he could not consider it as a purely mercantile question--
the question of sugar was one by itself—it was one which
bad been set apart for a great experiment. The eyes of
Europe and of America were fixed ors it, and on the pecu.
niary results of that experiment would depend the future
prospects and destiny of the negro population all over the
world. If, under the pressure of temporary circumstances,
we should throw this great experiment overboard, we
should stultify ourselves in the eyes of Europe, and give
up all moral feeling on the subject.—( No Ino !) He
was told that they would nut be stultifying themselves
but that was the statement made by an ardent supporter
of the Noble Lord and his Government, by a gentleman,
who had, he was happy to say, been recently defeated at
Nottingham—Nlr. Larpent. He had, when examined
before the Committee on East India affairs last year, urged
the necessity of admitting all the productions of tine East
Indies at the same amount of duty as the produce of the
West Indies, because if they did not they would have a
claim for the introduction of the productions of Brazil and
Cuba, and would stultify themselves by giving encourages
meat to slave labour and to slavery. The moral effect of
thus yielding at the first moment of temporary press
suro would be to produce a general panic among
all those engaged in the cultivation of free labour sugar,
who would imagine that on a further pressure the House
would be inclined to go further still, and for the seke of
cheaper sugar would put them on a perfect equality with
slave-growing countries. He could not see how those
who entertained these sentiments could expose themselves
to the charge of hypocrisy to which the Noble Lord had
alluded. Those feelings were not confined to himself or
his supporters in that House, but were entertained by
many who on other questions were firm supporters of
the Noble Lord, and who would doubtlessly regret ex-
ceedingly if anything should occur which should force
him to retire from the Government; but who, neverthe-
less, on this question felt themselves bound to overlook
all mere party considerations. The Anti-Slavery Society
had felt themselves compelled to express their apprehen-
sions on the subject. Looking upon it as a mere finan-
cial question, he could not see how the Chancellor of
the Exchequer proposed to make good his deficiency from
this source. He proposed to raise 700,0001., but bow it
was to be raised he, could not make out.—(Cheers.) As
the proposition 'originally stood, it appeared to him to be
simply a rn`easure for giving a boon to Cuba sugar—to the
sugar of
the country which, in the most undisguised manner,
narl.-sed on the slave-trade, and which had profited most
rarcely by the deficiency of supply occa,ioned by the great
experiment now carrying on in our own colonies. He sup-
posed the Chancellor of the Exchequer had been made
aware of this, and in consequence he cal come down with
his present preposition, making a difference of 6,. between
the Brazil sugar and the fine sugar of Cuba. Nuw the
price of the Cuba sugar at Hamburgh, which was a per-
fectly free port, was from 275. 7d. to 38s. sd. per
cwt. ;, of the best Brazil, 21s. Id. to 255. Id. ;
so that there was a difference of 17s. 5d., which the
Government proposed to meet by making a difference in the
duty of merely' 6s. Java sugar was 135., and
Manilla sugar, 155., so that it was clear that instead of
being really a boon to the Brazilian sugar it was, in fact,
a boon to the sugar of Cuba, the country where there was
the least possible hope of obtaining any mitigation of
slavery ; so that, in fact, it was a boon to slavery in its
worst form. He hoped and believed that such was not the
intention of her Majesty's Government, but such must ne-
cessarily be the result of the proposition. Nothing but the
fine sugar of Cuba could enter under the Government
proposition ; and with regard to Brazil sugar, he
believed it would not come is at all.—( Hear, hear.)
He supposed the Right Hon. Chancellor of the Exche-
quer expected an increased consumption front a decrease
in price. But what was the difference in price to be ?
The whole difference in price calculated upon was only
Is. 6d, per cwt. ; for that they were going to unsettle all
their relations with the East and the West Indies ; this
112th part of ls. 6d. was what was to cure all the mise-
ries, so graphically depicted by the Noble Lord, of the
poor weavers of Bolton—(Hear, hear)—that small frac-
tion of a reduction was to make all the difference in the
comfort and happiness of the pour of this country. He
bad to beg pardon of the House for the discursive nature
of his speech, but some indulgence was due to him ; when
his own speech bad been taken from him, when he bad
been forestalled by the Nobie Lord—( Hear, hear)..
it of course rendered him rather more desultory
than he otherwise would have been. Now what were our
exports to our East and West India Colonies which would
I e shaken and put in jeopardy by this measure ? The duty
on Ea't India Sugar was assimilated with the produce of
the West Indies in 1836. The exports of British goods
to the East Indies in 1837 was 3,600,000/. Irr 1838
3,870,0001. In 1839, 4,740,000/. The accounts for
1840 were not yet laid on the table of the House, but
he knew that the exports from L:verpool alone were
4,336,000/., nearly as much as from the whole country in
the previous year. Such had been the rapid increase of our
exports since the admission of East India sugar upon
an equality with the West Indian. What bad been the
results in the West Indies? In 1837 our exports were
4,036,000/., in 1838 3,393,000/.,
ie 1839 3,986.000/. to
our emancipated West India colonies. From those re-
turns he might deduce the advantage to our manufacturers
generally in cleating with free men. In deaiing with
slaves they supplied the very lowest quality of goods. In
our own colonies, as soon as the slaves were set free they
exercised their own fancy in dress, and so far from taking
as before only the simplest classes of our manufactures,
they were now taking all kinds of fancy goods for
the gratification of their own tastes, thereby giving more
extensive employment to the manufacturers and ar-
Wens of this country. Now he would ask
what was the value of tie trade they were risking
by the project of the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the
Exchequer? It was considerably more than 9,000,000/.
The trade which they were favouring was no doubt valu-
able, but it did not amount to more than 2,600,0001., and
when set in opposition to that of the East and West Indies
was a mere nothing. True, he would be told, as he had.
been told by his Brazilian friends, that the exports were
greatly' underrated in the official returns. Probally they
might. But was this any reason to suppose that thn:
returns to the East and West Indies were anything,
more accurate ?—( Hear.) The manufacturing interests.
was deeling lightly with their hest interests; when for tne
favour of one small market they wore shaking the. whole

of the East and West India trade. Commercially he did
not think that any case had been made out for such a
reenure. The President of the Board of Trade might
look forward with apprehension to the time when he
would be called upon to complete a treaty with the Bra-
zils. But because we were to take a small quantity of
their sugar—say 10,000 tons at most—the Brazilian.;
would compel themselves to take a great quantity of
our manufactures. They did not take them now because
we took their sugars or their cottons, but because the.
liked them. A great and a fine-sounding argument used
against the West Indian interest, was their importing slave
grown sugar in a refined state for their own use.—
(Cheers.) It was a very fine argument, but in effect the
%Vest Indians had nothing whatever to do with it. It en-
tirely lay at the door of their agents, the refiners, and the
general merchants. How that was to implicate the hu-
manity of the West India interest, he could not con-
coive. They had not the slightest connexion with it.—
( Hear.) If he had succeeded in showing that financially
no case had been made out for such a change, that commer-
cially the e was no inducement to take this step, if he had
succeeded in showing that, for the interests of the con-.
!sumer, there was no inducement to adopt the measure, and
that necessarily they, without any temptation in any of
these ways, would damage the interests of the
country, and the success of that great experiment
of free labour which they had undertaken so
nobly, and in which they still hoped to succeed—if he
had made out those positions, he trusted
that the sense of the House would be in favour of his
amendment, which was—" That, considering the efforts
and sacrifices a hick' Parliament and the country have made
for the abolition of the slave trade- and slavery, with the
earnest hope that their exertions and example might lead
to the mitigation and final extincien of those evils in other
conntrica, this House is not prepared (especially with the
present prospects of the supply of sugar from British pos-
sessions) to adopt the measure proposed by her Majesty's
Government for the reduction of the duty on foreign
sugar."
Mr. HOGG was aware that the amendment went
further than merely to contradict the motion of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, but still he thought it was
the only way in which that motion could be met.—( Hear,
hear.) The Noble Lord opposite ( Lord J. Russell) had
said that the Opposition approved of the foreign policy of
the Government, and especially in regard to China. It
was quits true th it the Opposition made no objection to
the expenditure which had beea incurred in the war with
that power. But at the same time they were far from
approving of the policy which rendered the expenditure ne-
cessary.—( Cheers from the Tory benches.) He considered
the present the most inopportune time that could be chosen
for a reduction of the duties upon foreign and slave-grown
sugar.—( Cheers.) On the faith of the measure (for
which the East Indians were grateful to the Govern-
ment) a vast amount of capital had been embarked in the
cultivation of the sugar cane in the East Indies.—( Hear,
hear.) The Brazilian merchants themselves asked only
for a duty of 365., and men generally asked for more than
they expected—( Hear, hear, and a laugh)—but the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer now proposed to give them ex-
actly what they wished, in its very ex reme.—( Hear,
hear.) lie was satisfied that if this measure were
adopted the country would be inundated v
sugar, the produce of slave-holding countries, r- .an
elusion of our own colonies in the East e. the ex-
(" Hear, hear," and laughter.) T` -ad the West..—.
produce of those countries re•. extent to which the
understood from the fe e.ght be increased would be
reported sue. ...et that Cuba, which twenty years
ago i
sugar consurr•..r, now supplied three-fourths of the
-ad t.e whole world. The Hon. Member
then rev'
SUIT
....soreePaeliamentary returns to show that the con-
eptieu of Sugar was not diminished by the increase of price.
tiy the introduction cf foreign sugar Cuba and the Brazils
would gain most, and our own country would be the chief
sufferer. The Hon. Gentleman here read extracts from
the official returns, to show that from the year 1830 to
1838 the exports to the East and West Indies went on in-
creasing progressively, and that the exports to the Brazils
were equal in amount to the exports to the West and East
Indies put together. Mr. Haekshaw, in his evidence he-
fore the Import Duties' Committee, stated that at Falmouth
there were 250 tons of foreign sugar, and if he was allowed
to land that sugar, paying the same duty as upon English
colonial sugar, the consumer would have sugar 365. per
cwt. cheaper; and yet the men who admitted that there
would be such a remunerating price, demanded that
such an alteration as that proposed should be
made. Mr. M'Quean stated before the same
Committee that one fertile acre of land in the Brazils
would produce as much sugar as six acres in the West.
Indies. With 'such facts before them were they going to
agree to the proposed alteration. The recommendation
of the above-named Committee was worthy of being at-
tended to—it was that the alteration in sugar duties
should be gradual ; that sonic notice should be given cf
the alterations intended to be made. The Right Hon.
Member the Chancellor of the Exchequer, when intro-
ducing a Bill on the equalization of the duties on sugar,
admitted the fairness of notice being given. Mr. Spring
Rico said in the discussion which took place on the sub-
ject two years ago, that it would be a base fraud on the
people of the West Indies to admit one ounce of
foreign-grown sugar, meaning by that term, sugar
grown in the subsidiary possessions of the East
Indies. Whatever benefit should be derived to
the revenue, it was clear that 700,000/. would not be
gained, except by introducing such a quantity of sugar at
365. per cwt. as would dislodge the Brite•h grown sugar,
~and in that case the duty must amount to an enormous sum.
The Hon. Gentleman said, in the present state of affairs
the alteration proposed was necessary, but he did riot sly
in the present state of what affairs—whether commercial,
financial or political affairs ?—( Opposition cheers.) The
Noble Lord poin'ed the atte. tion of the House to the
present satisfactory state of the free labourer in the West
Indies, but he did not advert to the position of the planter.
The improved state of the labourer arose from his being
able to exact what wages he chose from the plan-
ter, who was endeavouring to concur in the plans of the
Legislature for introducing free labour. Was it, there
at the present moment, and in such a state of things.
that the measure proposed was to be enacted, and all the
prospects hitherto indulged in de.troyed ?—(Opposition
cheers.) He would ask what would be the state of the
negro in a few years under the operation of that measure
should it pass? Would any proprietor in the West Indies
have consented to the sacrifices he bad made could he base
foreseen that such a measure would be proposed
The East Indies would not, in his opinion, be so badly
off under the operation of this Bill as the West Indies
would be. He was no advocate for restrictions in trade,
except where called for by the necessities of the case. The
Hon. Gentleman here proceeded to read an extract from
Mr. Labouchere, the substance of which was that that
Right Hon. Gentleman could not, on account of existing
treaties, admit of the distinction sought to be made be-
,
tws en free-labour and slave-grown sugar, so that the latter
might be totally excluded. They might, he said, look to
the East Indies for a cheap supply of free-labour sugar,
but the experiment then made, and which the country
had a right to see fairly carried out, would not be so if
they were to inundate the market with a supply of fo-
reign sugar. The opinions and fears which he ( Mr.
Hogg) entertained on this subject were not rcerely his; they
were also entertained and communicated to her Majesty's
Government by the Directors of the East India Company.
Supposing all the calculations that he had made were un-
true—that the supply of sugar would not equal the con-
sumption—would the House, on that account, consent t
adopt a measure which amounted virtually to a repeal of
the great and glorious measure of emancipation ?—( Hee.,
hear.) If they did regret the vast efforts they had
made for the suppression of that horrible traffic,
let them boldly and openly return to the system. Let
them permit the West Indians to import slaves, let them
proclaim that the theories of political economy were pa-
ramount to the dictates at humanity.—( Cheers.) Was
it to be endured in a Christian, nay, even in a delibe-
rative assembly, that after 20,000,000/., and more than
20,000,000/. abroad, bad been expended to put down
slavery and the slave trade, they should be called upon
to adopt a measure which would give increased vigour
to that inhuman traffic because sugar was Id. per lb.
dearer, and because her Majesty's Ministers were re-
solved to continue in office ?—( Cheere.) He thought
in whatever view the Noble Lord might endeavour
to place the question, the House would not consent
that a tottering Ministry, instead of treating the great
questions of the Corn-laws and slavery on principles
of national policy and justice should be permit'ed, fur
purposes which they did not and dared not avow,
to bindle them as mere masters of financial detail.—
( Hear, hear.) They ail knew the Noble Lord was a bold
politician, and being successful he might imagine be was a
righteous one; but perhaps the Noble Lord might find
that there were limits to the forbearance of the country,
and to the countenance of those around him. Perhaps the
Noble Lord might find that what be (Mr. Hogg) had
advanced was not untrue. If this was a mere party (pees.
Lion, perhaps the Ministry might escape, as they had done,
with a majority against them of ten or twenty,
but being a question involving the existence of
our colonies—being a question involving the principles
of humanity and the precepts of the GOsp; 1, he believed
without party feelings, the House would came to such a
decision as would prove fatal to the Miniatry, and would
be assuredly hailed with acclarestion by the country.
Mr. HA WE S said he was not surprised at the turn which
the debate had taken that evening. He was not surprised
that the wise and statesmanlike views
propounded by the
Noble Lord—(lronical cheers)—should be narrowed
down to a mere East and West India question. He bad
anticipated that when this question was brought forward
endeavours would be made to turn consideration from the
interests of the masses of the people,
and the great com-
mercial interests of the country, to mere partial interests,
and in that he found that be was not deceived. But
the House might depend upon it this was no Sugar Bill.
—( Ironical cheers from the Opposition.) He would
maintain that the purchase of free sugar in this country
was the best means of putting down slavery and the slave
trade.—(oh, oh 1) Hon. Gentlemen opposite deaied
the proposition, but he remembered that the Hon. Mem-
ber for Cambridge or the Hon. Member for Harwich, he
forgot which—( Laughter)—had assented to a proposition
far more in favour of the introduction of slave-
grown sugar than the present was. The Right Hon.
Gentleman, on the authority of Sir Chalks Grant, sup-
ported a measure proposed by the Government of the day
for the admission of foreign sugar, the rates of duty being,
West Indian 20s, East Indian 275., and foreign sugar
28s. The Noble Lord the Member for Liverpool had but
e
slightly touched the subject of means; but he admitted'
that the trade of the country was at
present in an alarming
situation. He (Mr. Hawes) bad raver known the trade of
the manufacturing districts in a state of greater depression ;
but he had heard from the Noble Lord not a word which
could lead him to suppose that the Noble Lord had any-
thing more in his head than a mere party resolution. We
were now suffei ing frGm foreign competition, and we had no
Trude of reliftvingturseleFsbut by increasing our mirketsind
tempting foreigners to buy our goods. He found that in
1801 we:expo:4(M to the amount of 39,700,000/. or, ac-
Cording to the population, about 2/. 83. for each • man in
the,kingdn.m. ; but 1840 he found on the. same calcula-
tiOn ,that,tl;e'export for:each individual. was only -IL 75.,
ao:tbit Iti had incretted,eere had not
our popu ion _
increaseff.our trade in'ehe same-proportion." It wee Lem-
aary, therefore,- that our whole commercial policy should

be brought before the Hoe-T, not as a mere party
ques-
tion, but as a question of State policy, on a hich each
party might state Oct:- principle=, and allow at country
to decide between them.—(llesr, hear,) As to the
point of increasing the slave trade, he knew that the West
Indies had been ruined every year for the last fifty year.,
Ia 1798 it was stated that nothing could save the Dian-
' I ter but the high price of sugar, and now that slavery was
abolished, they made the same complaint, asked to
be afforded protection, and that the people of this
country might be taxed for that purpose, When he fostod
the same complaiats preferred at all times, be was in-
duced to think they were concerned for something else
besides slavery and the slave trade.--( Hear, hear.) He
believed that distress would continue so long as these
protective duties should exist. The free trade enjoyed
in the British possessions in India had been the founda-
tion of their prosperity. In cotton, suers, and indigo,
the unprotected trade of the East ladies had enabled them
to compete with slavery and the slave trade in the West
fed Cc. He asserted the proposition most distinctly, that
free labour, under all circumstances, was more prodisctive
than slave labaur. This waa remarkably proved at
island of Porto Rico, which was naturally divided
into two portions, cue cultivated by slave, and the other
by free labour. in promoting the reduction of the sugar
duties, he believed he was taking that course whirls seas
most likely to promote the permaeeat igloo-eats.; r f the
West and to enable them to compet.i with slave
produce. The lion. Member for the Tower Hamlets
Lushington) had taken another position, namely,
that slavery was against the laws of God, and that, tllere-
fore, he would do nothing direcily or indirectly to en
courage it. If the Hon. Geotleinan Iccgslated on such
primaiples as that, he would do so on the lvvrarl hs by vcli‘e b
every bigot supported cs( ry act of i'tvleranee thnt was ever
promulgated. Where was such a principle to stop? How were
they to exclude al slave-grown produce ? Why he could
venture to say that his Hon. Friend had his pocket tell of
slave-grown produce at that moment. His snuff-box atta
full of' slave-grown produce. Probably, a.!io, he
wore a cotton shire—(Hkar, and lout laughter.)
Ulm understood the Noble Lord who brought forward the
measure he was opposed to the introduction of stave.
grown sugar. He believed the cpposition of many Hon.
Members to the proposition was from an unwillingoess to
encourage slavery and slave-labour, but he did riot think
the plan of the Government would have any such affect.
It had been said that a reduction of the price of sugar
would not increase its consumption. He did not expect
to have heard such an argument in that House, In 1831
the average price of sugar was 235. 6d. ; the populariun
was then estimat^d at 20,000,000, and tha. revenue
amounted to 4,630,0001. ; while its 1840 the price ival
48R. 6d., and although the population had Increased to
24,000 000 the revenue amounted only to .41)449,000/.
Nothing could more clearly point out the Injurious effects
of a high price of one of the necessaries ef
statement. It was said that this was a I-
to be brought in by a to,tering proposition
say that the opposition with "' a''gry ; but he would.
the most ominous char. „well it bad been met was of
to be able to .acter. It was of great importance
supply a falling .revenue without hay-
iog rem-
it ....se to any new taxes.—(Cries of " Hear.")
. was stated 'in evidence before a Parliamentary Com-
mittees that in consequence of the present high price of
sugar there were manutactor ice established in various parts
of London for the purpose of adulterating the article, and
the coffae-house keepers had stated that unless the price
of sugar and coffee was toiuced, they would not be able to
carry on their business any longer.--( Hear, hear.) He
would read an extract from a letter which he had
lately received from MoscJw, in order to show the House
what the result of protective duties had been in that part of
th world. It appeared from it that failures were f eque.nt,
and that the great bulk of the capital employed in manu-
factures had been irretrievably lost, notwithstandicg the
protective duties that had been imposed upon foreign ruanu-
factures.—( Hear, hear.) They were 'at present negotiat-
ing with the United States, and unless they were disposed
to make liberal and timely concessions, they could not ex-
pect to have the msrkets of the United States opened for
their produce.—( Hear.) He would ray that whatever
might be the result of the present discussion in that House,
the speech of the Noble Lord (J. Russell) would produce
a powerful effect out of doors. —(Cheer..) The Noble
Lord had proposed ter meet their financial embarrassments
without laying on any new taxes, and he had been met
on the very threshold by the opposition of Hon. Members
opposit. He should conclude by tendering his warmest
support to the proposition of the Noble Lord, who had
done more by his present measure to obtain the support of
the country generally than by any act of his long public
and useful life—( War, hear.)
Mr. 11 AND LE Y said the proposition with which the
Noble Lord bad conic down that night on the subject of
the Corn-laws, bid far to exceed tue most sanguine ex-
-1 pectations of toe Anti-Corn-law League.--( Hear, hear.)
He on the part of his constiiuents would say, that he
would much rather have no protection at all than the pro-
tection which the Noble Lord was about to offer them,
He would rather see the ports thrown open at once, and
the Custom-houses shut up. He had on many occa,i ins
given his support to her Majesty's Government, and should
do so again, but with regard to the Corn-laws he should
be wanting in his duty to his constituents arid the country
if he did not give the measure his most decided epposi-
tion, although he be pod the opportunity would never be
afforded him of votieg against the measure. Hear.)
M. JAMES had been 14hly delighted with the nobly
and statesmanlike speech of the Noble Lord (J. Russel),
and although he was himself a large \Vest India propriet,,r,
the Noble Lord opposite ( SAndou) need nut calculate upon
his vote.—(Cheers.) He never permitted his private in-
terests to iotertere with his public duty, and where tie in-
terests and comforts of the home population mere so
deeply involved, he should decidedly give them a prefer-
ence over the black population of the colonies.—( Cheers.)
Sir S. LUSHINGTON felt it his duty to make some
observations to the House, on the question then before
them ; and, undoubtedly he should have felt that obliga-
tion even if his Hon. Friend the Member for Lambeth,
had not taken upon himself the unusual course of fore-
stalling the opinions of a Member, before he had expressed
then., putting them in his own language, and directing
against them a ridicule to which he has been accustomed
for twenty years, without having ever felt himself in the
slightest degree injured either in his own opinion or that
of others. With respect to the course which he meant
to pursue, if his lion. Friend had stated that he
bed ever been the determined enemy of slavery under
whatever form it appeared, and in whatever quarter
of the world it had led to the murder and bloodshed
of thousands of our fellow-creatures, if his Hon.
Friend meant to say that be bad ever expressed his ab-
horrence of these practices, and he had declared his opi-
nion that they were contrary to the laws of God and man,
he should confess that he would still stand by such opi.
nions, and in doing so, he claimed for himself what be felt
to be an honour, and not a subject of ridicule.—( Hear,
hear.) But his Hon. Friend asked what right they had
to proclaim their virtuous opinions to other States, and to
pass Acts for Spain, the Brazils, or other countries, who
chose to take upon themselves to carry on those dread-
ful practices?' What right bad they? Why, they had
declared their sentiments on the subject by an Act
of Parliament in the year 1807, and at the Congress
of 1815 they had the declaration of all the great
States in Europe, that the slave trade was contrary to hu-

manity and jostice—to the cause of God and man.—
( Hear, hear.) Why, they had treaties with every ore of
the great Powers on the sutsject; they had treaties, too,
with Cuba and the Brazils. They bad a right, then, ter
assert their principles, and that would not be acting with
intolerance. It would be admitted that every country had
a right to denounce that which, in the opinion of Europe,
WAS criminal, wickeJ, and iniquitouP. He was aware
that in approaching the present discussion, they must
take into consideration many great arid important tapirs
involving almost the state of toe whole country. He was
well aware of our financial and commercial diffieuties,
and that the time might be coming when they would have
many embarrassments in forming tteaPies on commer-
cial subjects with other countries ; he forgot none of those
things—he laid them not out of his consideration; but
speaking of one measure, and one measure only, prepared
by her Majesty's Government, he was prepared to say that
that measure would not remove any difficulties—would not
relieve the country from any embarrassments, while it
would lower Gem in the lace ot Europe, and would degrade
them in their own opinions, and would not receive the approval
of the suffering people of this country.—(Hear, hear.)
He foci ever been a friend to free trade—he had ever
voted for an alteration of the Corn-laws, and he maintained
these opinions still. He had wished for an alteration of

the timber duties, and his opinion remained unchanged
He had always voted against every measure which could
possibly increase the slave trade, cr give it fresh vigour,
or augment the measute of slavery, or perpetuate its con-
tinuance ; he had done so last year, and be would be
ready to do so still. If any persons had changed their
opinions, he had not changed one iota of those he had ex-
pressed on the motion of his Hon. Friend, the Member for
Wigan la•t year and be saw no reason to change them now.
It was then declared by an immense majority of the House
against a minority of 27, that it was not fit or proper
to reduce the duty on foreign sugar to 345. when

the price was between bOs. and 60s. ; and
he saw no reason why it should be done when the price
had fallen to 375.—( Hear, hear.) if at the time when
they had expected that the price would increase, as it
did, they did not think it necessary to provide for the

contingency et a failing crop and very high prices, much
less, in his judgment, was there the slightest season for
such a course now, when it was a matter of perfect de-
monstration that there would be a sutfi:ient supply for
the c,,untry. He wished to state simply and shortly the
grounds on which he meant to vote on that occasion,
laying aside all party considerations. He tsar as much
a.tached to his party and to his principles as any man
could be. He was mindful of the conduct of itlinistors
in former times; and he was anxious to repay them
with every fidelity consistent with honour and duty.
But he should on thisoecasion oppose them. He would do
so, first, because the proposed measure would in his opinion
give a stimulus to attury ; secondly, because it would aug-
ment the miseries of the existing state of slavery ; thirdly,
because he thought it unjust to the West Indies; fourthly,
because he thought it deleterious to the peaph inhabiting
that country; fifthly, though that perhaps was a less im-
portant reason, because he did not think it prudent or wise
as regarded the East Indies ; and lastly, because he was
convinced there was no rece3sity whwever fur the measure.
—( Hear.) He believed they would have au abundant
supply of sugar for the you- 1841. They hid a right to
expect is all not lees than 905,000 tons. He bAitived
he might speak confidently on the subjew, as they had an
sweetmeat the supplies to I)i:expected from the West IndieF.
He would give the House the import jive) Great Britain
of British sugar for the first four months of 1840 and 1841.
'The House would find, patting together the West Indies,
the Mauritiur, and tbk in'lB39 the total quantity
of attar, imported was 40,700 tons ; in 1840 it was
39,400 tons, and in 1841 it was 66,000, being nearly
double the quantity impetted in the two preceeding years.
With respect to the quantity of sugar in bond for the last
three years, they would. find that there,was, on the Ist of
May, 1839, 35,500 tons; 1840, 20;700 ton.:;:.antl in the'
'present- ar: 45,700. tees, ~:1),,i0g more ;ban double
that of the preeechtz year... He held is: his band a letter,
which came from a th;use of high character at CAlcutta;
originally bearing date the 16th of January, 1841, but.

With A postscript of the 15th of February, 1841,
In which, after stating the actual exports during telt
year, amounting to a very large euantata, l'ne writer st t..s
that if matters continuea ate in'ey are it is scarcely possibie to
state what apentity of sugar may not be sent to this cstertry
to tiab succeeding year. Such were our prospects in the
East Indies. Had we no right to expert hatter 00'3 in {sire
Wert ? The evils whieh,reteslta I 'from the emancipation
of the slaves teert taaAually ceasing ; peace prevailed in
the ieletea of Jamaica, there was an increase of industry,
°lnd they had a right to expert that the fru.ts of that ia-
dustry would be an increased production. The little
island of Antigua, the most. eahitieiatl o tiimoit any of
our islands, heal;the abolition of slavery, increased
ite expeotta from 7,000 to 11,000 hogsheads. He con-
tended that there was every probability of sugar being of-
fered to the people of this country at a reasonable price.
The people of England were great sugar eonsurnets
notwith taeding its high prica.—( Hear, hear.) It
any man weelti be at the trouble to look into
the fettle he would find that ()toe Britain alone
eSeetsumed above one (rates of the whole eiereuat
sugsr ich was consumed at all; avhat 'aroh'ta be tile
result of admittieg feseVaaa sugar let) Ireland? H.,
had rPreirct! riliin tire Islend of Cuba advices down to the
;se 'ot April, by waieh he food that the increase in the
exports in the two preceaing months w.rs 5,000 tons.
How sass that increase brought about 3 By the atterhartta-
tion of the slave trade; by eariploying skeet!, and elms
only; by working there without mercy, without even al-
lowing theta an Ordinary quantity of sleep to sustain
human hatere.—( H. hear.) He weeld AA, then,
evbetteer any one of the examples of his Hon: Friend hind
any hearing on this eubjecoa4 Hear, hear,) He had
told them of the edeantages tree laboatie bitt he bed
forgotten to tell them, that al the ltsst Indies the was an
enormous overt!.,;v ot population, and that in the Wet
Indies it WO totally inadequate to the demand.—( He ir,
beet%) lie (Sir S. Lushiegem) totally defied teat the
question before the House was a question of free trade.
In free trade there was frt 0 oortipeti,i rn t:0-
t weFn tiara .8 who Used the seine means and
appilinces to attain theih object. Who or. r heard
of free static between him who paid a just obedience
to the leers et his country, and diacliarged the taxes im-
posed upon him, and the lawless ruffian—a composition
Where, on the one side, crime was legalised, and, on the
other, the rights of humanity were observe,' ? (Cheers.)
The.e was, he contended, no fair competition in a case of
this description. The result was immediate prosperity,
immediate success to him who violated the law. The ul-
timate result was then reducing the finest land to the con-
dition of a wilderness. Let teem lock, for example, to
the States of America. Mr. Jahn Joseph Gurney, whose
name had been already mentioned, had told him that he had
seen the finest land reduced to the most miserable condi-
tion. What would be the bearing of this measure upon
the great population whom we had emancipated ? On
this subject we had then the opinion of tie same gentle-
man, Mr. Gurney, _ who had no interest in this question_
of unspotted character, of practical knowledge, for he
had viaited tee West Indies and the United States for the
express purpose of acquiring information on the subject,—
oee of all the teen whom he had ever known the
most attached to a strict adherence to truth.—( Hear.)
He happened to have by him the sentiments of that gen.
tleman in writing, on the subject, g yen to him before the
question was mooted, and he would take the liberty of
reading them to the House.—(The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman here read an extract of a letter from Mr.
Gurney, stating that the writer considered it of the utmost
importance to the West India colonies that the present
prohibitory duties on sugar should be maintained, as any
relaxation of them would be necessarily attended with the
ruin of the planters, and the loss of the daily wages
which the negroes were now earning for their labour,
and with a vast increase in the importation of Cuba
and Brazilian sugar.) The sentiments of this gentleman
were, from his position, deserving of the utmost attention.
He had no West India interests to move him, and was ac-
tuated by nothing but a sincere desire for truth,
and a regard to the interests of humanity.—(Hear,
bear, and cheers.) He would now proceed to defend
himself from the charge of inconsistency which had been
brought against those who opposed the present measure
because they consented to consume other articles, the pro-
duce of slave labour, and did not protest against the impor-
tation ref cotton. He considered that he gave the greatest
proof of wisdom, and was the best friend of humanity, who
looked to ihe practical execution of beneficial measures, and
not he who, not able to attain all the good of which he may
be desirous, gave up the good which was in his power.
He was not a wire man who, because circumstances over
which h- had no control forced him to submit to the evils
of resor tieg to slave countries for certain products, because
so great a calamity was inflicted on him by the force of
circumstances, would therefore seek voluntarily to augment
it.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) He had pursued the
course of endetvouring to attain all the practical good in
his power throughout the discussion of those ques.toes. At
first little progress had teen !Laic, but lie had conten•ed
himself satin resting on, and being guided by, public
oplei n first of all by bringing about the abolition of
slavery—next, by procuring an amelieeation in the condi-
tion ,f the negro—then, by endeavouring to procure a
gradual abolition of slavery—arid, at last, when public
opinion was ripe, by the total abolition of slavery, though
the supporters of that measure had been contented with
the practical good they could affect, and had waited to be
guided and supported by public opinion. There were
some other little matters which were well worthy
of attettiOn. He agreed with the Hon. Member for
Bevei-ley that Cuba sugar would enter into the greatest
competition with British sugar, but ho believed the Bra-
zilian sugar would al,o find its way here, and that an en-
couragement would be given to the importation of slaves,
and a great increase in the sufferings of the slaves would
e the consequence. But were they quite sure that it
would end there ? Were they quite sure that the Bra-
zilian Governmeet and the Brazilian planters would not
be inclined to abandon the cultivation of cotton, which
was now partially pursued, and take to the cultivation of
sugar ?—( Hear, hear.) Lett them see the course which
had been formerly pursued. Ifs the West Indict the cul-
tivation of cotton had been abandoned, and the cultivation
of sugar taken to. How could they satisfy themselves
that it would be for the advaetage of this country to de-
pend exclusively for the supply of cotton upon the United
States ? and he would contend that any one measure which
tended to render us solely and exclusively dependent
upon the United States, and to deprive us of
that necessary article from other countries, must be most
detrimental to the commercial and mercantile interest, and
One of the most dangerous that any country could adopt,
situated as England was now situated. He had listened
with deep attention to the eloquent speech of his Noble
Friend the Secretary for the Colonies, and could not for-
get the pathetic description he had given of the sufferings
ef the poor in this country. He (Dr. Lushington) hoped
he was not deficient in the most earnest anxiety to relieve
those sufferings and to restore them to a better state. But
surely when that eloquent description of their sufferings
had been given, and which would now go off to the coun.
try exeitiegt their feelings and raising their passions—
( Loud cheers from the Opposition)—that description of
their condition of suffering from being forced to purchase
a dear article might be contrasted with the sufferings which
must be the consequence .of the adoption of this measure
for their relief. When he had sat on the other side of
the House, with but few friends to support him, actuated
only by the spirit of truth, and when sometimes his courage
failed him, he found the feelings of the people of this
country rising to Its support, encouraging every -effort,
and stimulating him to fresh efforts; and be believed that
if the question was put to the people of this country,
whether they would have their sugar cheaper by taking
the produce of the labour of the stave, or whether they
would suffer their present calamities, he believed
they would reject the proposition.—( Loud cheers.)
He had such faith in their principles and kindly
and good feelings, that he believed they would prefer the
dinner of herbs to the stalled ox that was offered them.
He had made these observations to justify himself, and to
show his own consistency and adherence to his principle.
--(Cheers.) He deeply regretted being obliged to give a
vote different from his Noble Friend, but he was obliged
to do so. If the proposition of the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer could be put in such a fern that he could say no
to it, he would be desirous to do so ; and as
far as tae forms of that House would per-
mit that was the course he would pursue.
With regard to the other questions, be would not enter
into into them. He had only risen to vindicate his own
opinions, and he was content.—( Cheers from the Oppo-
silion.)
M . EWART rose and said, at that late hour he
would detain the House but for a moment.—( Here the
Hon. Member was interrupted by loud cries of " Adjourn,"
and "Go or.") He then, moved the adjournment of the
debate till Monday.
The question was put and agreed to.
On the motion of Lord J. RUSSELL, the House, at
its rising, was adjourned till Monday.
CRIMINAL JUSTICE BILL.

The ATTORNEY•GENERAL brought up the Re-
port on this Bill.
Sir C. DOUGLAS brought up a clause providing
compensation for the coroners of Manchester, Birming.
ham, and Bolton.

Mr. M. PHILIPS opposed tie clause, as one to
which his constituents would not agree, unless it was pro-
dded that the Coroner of Manchester should discontinue
his opposition to the charter.
Strangers were then ordtred to withdraw, and the
House divided, when there appeared__
For the clause 54
Against it 4
Majority
The clause was thzn added to the Bill, and the Report
brought up.
The Arms (Ireland) Bill was read a third time and
passed.
The other Orders of the Day sere then disposed of, and
the House adjourned at ball. past Twelve o'Clock.

ROYAL A RTILLERY.—A General Court-
Mat tial is ordered to be held et Wcolvvich on Monday, at which
Lieut.-Col. C. Cruttenden will preside as Judge-Advocate.
The parties under arrest at present are Lieut. E. W. Dance, of
the second battalion, appointed June 20, 1840, and Lieut. Percy
Francis Gother Scott of the ninth battalion, appointed Dec.,
18, 1840. 'Use breaches of discipline with which they are
charged have not }et been made,piolic ; but, from report, the
differences betwixt those 'two officers t.,:ok place in a billiard-
room, by Lieut. Dance applying an utaofficer-like expression to
Lieut. Scott, who immediately retaliated by personal resent-
ment, the ultimate result of which w4s a challenge sent by
Lieut. Dance to Lieut. Scott, to induce him to fight a duel.
Highly to the honour of the Artillery, a court-martial on a
colunns,ioned officer has not been held in the garrison at
Woolwieh during the last twenty y ears.
MARCHNIONT PEERAGE.—The claim of Sir
Francis D. Home, Bart., to this Peerage, the final hearing of
whiCh was postponed till after Easter. is now to come immedi-
ately to issue. It is worthy of remark that this case was or;-
ginally drafted by Lord Brougham at the time when his talents
and fame firstbegan to dawn upon the world. and now,. in its
eompiete.state; forms, heyond.all question, the finest specimen
0 research' and propicquitY ever produced at, the bar' of the
House of Cc.dedon ion Mei-curl
1
,ts,t. of January, 1811, there have betty
.
• unieSs Min. 51. railway patimts reeci red into the .C6Unty
OltheiO;-27 have been discharged cured, four hve
died, and one was diiiniised.-,BripitQ4 I'4er. •
• „.
_ _