The Sun.
London, England, 1823-05-17 00:00:00

principle by wliieh the compUlsory part of the BM was re-
gulated. Still, if any intenrediate process between the volun-
tary and the compulsory mode could be suggested, he should
be glad to hear and discuss it. lie was surprised at the allu-
sion made by his Right Honourable Friend to the tithe of agist-
ment, for it formed no part of the compulsory provisions of the
present 13111. He should forbear enlarging upon a variety of
subjects on which his Honourable Friend had discussed, be-
muse he was anxious to get the Bill into the Committee, to
nave the advintage. of that full disussion and emendation
which it would there receive. He had no doubt it would come'
out of that Committee in such a form as to reconcile all hosti-
lity against it.
Mr. WETHERELL said that he might not have offered
himself to the House on a subject of the kind were his objec-
tions to:the measure confined to local objections. But his oppo-
sition went to the principle of the Bill, which principle he took
to be, to compel,- not • to enable, the territorial owner of tithes
to change the nature of his property, from that of land to
money. This, he contended, was the meaning of this measure,
and it was against this compulsory provision of provision
contrary to the whole 'spirit of the British laws, and deroga-
tory from the character of the conservators of British pro-
perty—that he 'opposed himself. So far from this being it mea-
sure of conciliation, it took for its foundation the impossibility
of amicable adjustment between the parties putting into the
hands of the Lord-Lieutenant the power of appointing a con-
tractor to carry. into effect that accommodation which could
not be otherwise done. If this Bill had been circulated
•in Ireland for a year, it would have been more fair ; and
he could not understand why so much haste should be ap-
L'parent. He did think it necessary that they should know more
of the state of feeling in that country on this subject. The
[object of the bill, they were informed, was to harmonize two
'parties, one of which was exasperated, because it had to pay
tithes to the other. But the bill which was to do this did not
pretend. to do away with these tithes, but offered to commute
them-from kine-to money. He looked upon it as an irritative
rather than sedative. All historians on the Constitution of
England had pointed out that the grand harmonizing principle
which so intimately united the Church and State, was the
Clergy having territorial tithes, which mixed them up in com-
merce with their `parishioners, rather than being sunk into mere
• pensioners': This-was a disastrous year bf innovation for Ire-
land, for there was the Honourable Member for Aberdeen
(Mr. Hume) wishing to deprive her of her _Lord Lieutenant,
and the Minister-wishing to deprive her -of her Church pro-
perty, so that that country was to have Civil Government with,
out a Governor, and a Church without any title to property_
They had stripped the .statue of King Ni Whim of its ribbons
by way-of conciliation, and had found it produce so much, that
to complete the blessed work they proposed stripping the
Church of its *petty. The principle of this Bill was the prin.
ciple of spoliation', and no one could say that it would stop in
any given place. If it passed he should say to the Church of
'lreland that its downfall had commenced.
Mr. Secretary PEEL said, that the only point of the many
they had urged, upon which the two opponents to this Bill
agreed, was, that the Speaker should not • leave the Chair, and
that this Bill should he at once, and for everdismissed the House.
Now to this propositioti,- he rose humbly toeffer his most stre-
nuous opposition., After they had been ten years at variance on
the subject of tithes,. he intreated the House not to turn their
backs upon a measure which at length came forward to recon-
cile and accommodate all their differences. Ilis Hon. and
Learned Friend (Mr. Wetherell) wished them to wait for new
lights from Ireland, but it was just because he did. not think
they could receive- any new lights from that quarter on the
subject, that he called upon them not to wait. Ile, on the con-
trary, called upon them to go into • the 'Committee, that they
might there compare their opinions, and interchange their in-
formation. His Hon. and Learned Friend was obliged to
assume this as a compulsory measure to make out his case
of opposition. But the fact was, that the very compulsory re- ,
gulation was one-which was voluntarily entered into betwixt the '
parties in a large portion of the Empire. lle could not assent
to the proposal of his Right Hon. Friend to estimate the future
receipts at the Clergy by the past; for of late years ninny had
been able to obtain tie tithe at till. To take that mode, there,
fore, would be spoliation to the individual, and compulsion in
the principle of the measure. He could not think any attempt
at compulsion, by appointing an adjudicator on the part of the
Lord Lieutenant, Would succeed. Any attempt on time part of
the Gtivernmentao deal with a regulation- of this kind, where
there were parishes containing ten thousand payers of tithes,
he could not but think would fail. 'Nothing; he was convinced,
but parochial legislation would do in such a case. This, how-
ever was a bill calculated in all other respects to put this. dis-
puted. Matter in a train, of settlement, and he hoped, therefore,
the •Housu would not reject it; but at least give it thatfair dis.
cussion to which so important a subject was entitled. It was
no reason that it would not restore Ireland to perfect harmony,
that it should not be entertained. It proposed to put matters
upon a little better footing, and that little was not to be dis.,
dained, because the whole could not at once be attained.
Mr. V. FITRALD and Mr.- ‘VETuratrt.t. respectively
explained.
Sir J. NEWPORT said, the House to- be able to discuss
the subject should be in posseSsion of thereat state of Irebnid,
and the stateof the Irish Church. If the Houso.cOuld
aware of the inconveiuiences Ireland had been subject to for
terry years, something would be done. His hope was that the
House would not pays over the misery and calamity of, that 'un-'
fortunate country.
Colonel BARRI' opposed the compulsory clause:. as it ap.
peared the Bill might be improved in a Cemmittee, his hope
was that his Ilon. Friend would not oppose that proceeding
Mr. ABE liCRO:11 BY thought the 11111 in danger of .being
lost. He objected to words in the compulsory, clause on the
ground that it gave the clergyman more than heought to have.
culty. . th6y.gave by the Bill in lieu of 'that tithe, a certainty
The clergytran had a time which he collected with great ditii-
of payment without difficulty.
Air. \VEST wax desirous of going into the Committee.
iel'uitPtreeelsweloi-ulltuli hope that the wisdom of
make the Bill a blessing to
thecei oaHlnoodnu ers lae
rather
ti
heNaCnColami
curse.
The question for the Speaker leaving the chair was then car.
tied without a division.

The House accordingly went into a Committee on the Bill.
Mr. Ci MILBURN then observed that it would be advisable
to commit the Bill pro forma, have it reprinted with his amend.
ments, and re.committed on a future day, with an understand.
ing that no debate was again to ensue on the Speaker leaving
the chair. •
The Bill accordingly went through the Committee pro forma,
and, the Report was ordered to be received on Wednesday.
The Commotion of Tithes Bill was read the second time,
and conouitted for Wednesday.
INsIIRBECTION BILL.

Mr. GOULBURN brought in the Irish Insurrection Bill,
which was read the first time, and ordered to be rend a second
time on Thursday.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and they
adjourned ,at BALr-PAST TWELVE 6iCLOCK, to Wednesday.

IKKLAND.

[From the Carlow .31oraing Post, of !Way 15.]

ST-ti-}: or COUNTRY.—is or eight houses have been
burst in Limerick since our last notice. In Cork an attempt
‘was made to assassipate a Magistrate, Mr. BEtsrmin Low.
A few outrages have occurred in Clare and West Meath. We
have not space for any details.
At the fair of Ballinesloc, held on Wednesday last there was
a good display of horned cattle, but a very poor show of sheep.
Store cattle were the only deseription of stock in demand, and
brought rather advanced prices. •
The May Fair of Athlone took place on Tuesday last. There
was but a scanty display of cattle ; those for feeding, and
flinch cows, were in request,- and went ofTat tair prices.
M‘Manus, on whom the strongest suspicion, of having mur-
dered- his wife, by 'drowning her in the Canal here, and who
had absconded, since that transaction, was brought in here on
Sunday last, through the wonted activity of the Roscommon
police, and transmitted to the County Gaol.
The following Gentlemen, from the English Customs De-
partment, are on a tour through Ireland, for the purpose cf as-
similating the discharge of business with the practice in Eng-
land :—Mr. Weston, acting land. surveyor, M. Tetham, in-
Spector of the. river at London, and Mr. lier, collector's clerk.
• remewasnowaitsmism